# Feliks Audio ENVY



## Deceneu808




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## Ichos

Envy , envy because I can't afford it...
This looks great and I guess that is also going to sound great!


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## Deceneu808

I guess they just teased it for now but the wood looks gorgeous. We should find out more over the weekend. They are showcasing it at the iEar show


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## Ichos

Deceneu808 said:


> I guess they just teased it for now but the wood looks gorgeous. We should find out more over the weekend. They are showcasing it at the iEar show


Please keep us informed!


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## Deceneu808

Ichos said:


> Please keep us informed!


I mean, I know as much as you at this time. Ain't gonna go to Amsterdam to listen to it but maybe somebody from here will.
All I can say is that with the wood casing in contrast with the metal finish, this is the prettiest amplifier I have ever seen. Should fit just right with ZMF headphones


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## Ichos

Reminds me the high end offerings from Auris Audio.


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## waveSounds

Deceneu808 said:


> I mean, I know as much as you at this time. Ain't gonna go to Amsterdam to listen to it



Oh yes you are. Let us know how you get on.


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## rmsanger

hmm.. I've been saving for a Cayin HA-300 Mk2, used WA33, or perhaps a DNA amp if they ever show up in classifieds.  I'm intrigued by the 300B options.

Wondering if someone could provide the "case" on why we would go Feliks Envy over a HA-300 mk2 or WA33?   I honestly am trying to learn so not trolling or trying to start an argument.


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## Simple Man

Deceneu808 said:


> ... Ain't gonna go to Amsterdam to listen to it .....


What do you mean, Amsterdam?
I'll go there tomorow but where will it be?


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## Renexx

Deceneu808 said:


> I mean, I know as much as you at this time. Ain't gonna go to Amsterdam to listen to it but maybe somebody from here will.
> All I can say is that with the wood casing in contrast with the metal finish, this is the prettiest amplifier I have ever seen. Should fit just right with ZMF headphones



Did you say it matches with ZMF Headphones?! Now Im interested


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## Deleeh

Ohh cool,😍😍😍😍😍🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰😍😍😍😍😍

I hope the price will be affordable for the Envy then I'm up for it.

300b tubes latest trick that can be expensive if you want to have good tubes.
The connections in the front look good too, finally being able to go balanced again why not?
I hope the input has it too.

And you have to hand it to Feliks - technically speaking, design is always a feast for the eyes.
I'm looking forward to more information about the Envy.


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## ThanatosVI (Nov 12, 2021)

Must ... resist...

The shematic looks amazing. Can't wait for real shots and what the options for customisation actually are.


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## MHLC

Tempting....I wonder what should I tell my wife


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## Hanyong (Nov 12, 2021)

Waiting


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## Deceneu808

Simple Man said:


> What do you mean, Amsterdam?
> I'll go there tomorow but where will it be?


Sorry my bad. It's in Tilburg. https://audioshowiear.nl/


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## ThanatosVI

https://www.facebook.com/186733015402071/posts/1106974266711270/?sfnsn=scwspmo

It's certainly one of the best looking amps ever created.
They make it really hard not to get it.

I just can't justify it in addition to my Octave. 
Seeing the amazing woodwork and use of only the best connectors makes it easy to understand the 6k price tag


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## rmsanger (Nov 13, 2021)

Beautiful.. I had hopes it would be like $4k around where the HA-300 Mk2 will land.


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## ThanatosVI (Nov 13, 2021)

rmsanger said:


> Beautiful.. I had hopes it would be like $4k around where the HA-300 Mk2 will land.


Huh will the Ha300 Mk2 be cheaper than Mk1?
The Mk1 is a 5000€ amp ... at least in europe.
Just hoping it doesn't get more expensive, which might be possible due to parts shortage etc.

For the Feliks, now that I saw the woodwork and details I understand why it's so expensive. Surely a lot of work. However initially I also expected something around 4500€

Btw who did already contact them for early orders?


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## Deleeh

Don‘t hace Facebook to see the picture 😢.
can anyone post the Picture here,pls?


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## ThanatosVI

Deleeh said:


> Don‘t hace Facebook to see the picture 😢.
> can anyone post the Picture here,pls?









These pictures are from a pre production unit according to the FB post


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## rmsanger

ThanatosVI said:


> Huh will the Ha300 Mk2 be cheaper than Mk1?
> The Mk1 is a 5000€ amp ... at least in europe.
> Just hoping it doesn't get more expensive, which might be possible due to parts shortage etc.
> 
> ...


$4k USD for us at multiple distributors:

https://audio46.com/products/cayin-...JqEApDsNFiaKP0mLlOvq9s-cFQZrymUQaAmhVEALw_wcB


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## Ichos

Very beautiful and I bet gorgeous sounding!


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## Simple Man

Deceneu808 said:


> Sorry my bad. It's in Tilburg. https://audioshowiear.nl/


No problem. Found out I'm short of money anyway.


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## Simple Man

Yep, looks very nice. Hope we'll see it in other nice wood finishes too.


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## OctavianH

On/Off button at the back like on other models they manufacture. Honestly a very annoying placement.


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## ThanatosVI

OctavianH said:


> On/Off button at the back like on other models they manufacture. Honestly a very annoying placement.


I agree on that


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## seenc (Nov 14, 2021)

not more than 3.5k euro.. 

I hope they will not go along with the current madness and unreasonable prices, like other manufacturers.


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## ThanatosVI

seenc said:


> not more than 3.5k euro..
> 
> I hope they will not go along with the current madness and unreasonable prices, like other manufacturers.


You should prepare yourself for 6k on the base Version.
This amp has a lot more internals than the Euforia AE

And looking at all the detail on the wood finish I can understand the price, even if I was hoping for something more affordable as well.


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## Simple Man

Seems like this one is science fiction for me.


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## Deleeh

It could be deceptive because the background is blurred.
But if you look at the shape, you might think that the Envy is also available in other colours.
Somewhat darker wood and black, the vice at the back is obviously one.
What do you think, will the Envy come in 3 colour choices?
Spontaneously I would say bamboo, walnut and black.


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## ThanatosVI

Deleeh said:


> It could be deceptive because the background is blurred.
> But if you look at the shape, you might think that the Envy is also available in other colours.
> Somewhat darker wood and black, the vice at the back is obviously one.
> What do you think, will the Envy come in 3 colour choices?
> Spontaneously I would say bamboo, walnut and black.


Yes it has been announced that there will be several colors to choose from.
Also custom engravings are available as well as internal Upgrades similar to Woo Audios Elite editions.


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## Deceneu808

Reviews should be out before Christmas on this thing. Expected price is around 6K


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## ThanatosVI

Website getting updated right now, guess the release is imminent.


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## Deleeh

Ouuff,
Prices have gone up quite a bit, my dear friend.
With what justification?


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## ThanatosVI

Deleeh said:


> Ouuff,
> Prices have gone up quite a bit, my dear friend.
> With what justification?


Probably Supply chain issues. Materials getting more expensive.
Happened to most hifi manufacturers I know.
Nonetheless it's sad. Roughly 10% increase across the board for Feliks amps.

(My Octave also received a 10% price increase 3 months ago and many other manufacturers like T+A announced price increases for 2022)


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## Deleeh

This is a mess.
I pay more even though the same components are used that cost less last year.
Not directly related to Feliks, but in general.

Even a custom amp costs less than what the market offers at the moment.
Even if I wait 3 months for it, the bottom line is that I get out cheaper.

It's really crazy what's going on at the moment.
You can be happy if you've stocked up in the last six months, if you're honest.
Even with the tubes.

But it's a bit of a shame about Feliks, when I think about where it used to be in terms of price and where it is today.
I would have liked to have a few more Feliks friends.
Would have been nice in any case.

Even though the inside of the amplifier has changed a lot, which justifies it a bit.

You can only cherish the part, especially if you are satisfied.


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## Deceneu808

With the grill on


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## Deleeh

It looks sexy,😊.


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## m-i-c-k-e-y

Some pics from their site


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## rmsanger (Dec 17, 2021)

wow such a great looking amp....


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## ThanatosVI

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> Some pics from their site


I hate that it looks so good.

There is no need for another amp in my collection,  but I want the Envy.

Curious how the customisation options look


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## Ichos

ThanatosVI said:


> I hate that it looks so good.
> 
> There is no need for another amp in my collection,  but I want the Envy.
> 
> Curious how the customisation options look


Don't envy, it's a deadly sin...


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## Deceneu808

Just got word reviews have been pushed towards end of Jan, early Feb. More marketing materials are being prepared ahead of launch but no word on if it's on track for this year or early Jan.


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## Marutks

So this amp will cost around the same as the Auris Nirvana.
I wonder if they will include decent 300b tubes.


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## Deceneu808

Marutks said:


> So this amp will cost around the same as the Auris Nirvana.
> I wonder if they will include decent 300b tubes.


Full Music or EH Gold and Psvane CV181 Gold


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## Deleeh

Hello,
I don't quite understand the construction principle.
Why you now use Kt sockets as preamp and 300b as output stage.
The parallel with the Euforia is definitely there with the 6AS7G and 6SN7 sockets.
I am glad that they thought one step further and were able to implement KT & 300B.
As an Euforia owner you start swearing when you see the tube prices although most of them were standard tubes at that time.

I had a hybrid amplifier built with 2 6SN7 sockets and the amplifier is relatively close to the Euforia for a fraction of the money.
And in some ways even better.
Even if the comparison is a bit lame because of the Otl and hybrid amplifier design.

What I actually wanted to say is 
Firstly:
I would have liked to see an amplifier that is cleanly constructed and only equipped with a common tube type where tubes are still affordable.
Especially 300b are not cheap.

Secondly:
 It might also be more accessible for people if it remains affordable also amplifier-wise in the purchase.

Thirdly: It looks technically good, but the price and where Feliks wants to go is justified somewhere, but not affordable for everyone, so many customers will drop out, which is a shame.

Fourthly, a slimmed-down version of the Envy might be great.

For my part, from a personal point of view, I won't buy it.
I'd rather have one built, especially if there was a concept.

Since the first reports won't come until next year, I'm also curious about what Feliks will say.

About the Auris, yes you are right, but technically the Auris is a few years old again.
That could be a disadvantage for it, because it looks like Feliks has done a good job.
I find 3 outputs a bit much, especially XLR.
I would have liked to see a more advanced crossfeed circuit.


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## ThanatosVI

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> I don't quite understand the construction principle.
> Why you now use Kt sockets as preamp and 300b as output stage.
> The parallel with the Euforia is definitely there with the 6AS7G and 6SN7 sockets.
> ...


I'd like to share my view on this.

The Envy is targeted at the high end audiophile community. Sure many can't afford or accept the price tag, but those at which it is aimed for usually can.

For those with a stricter budget there are still the other amps like Euforia and Elise. 

Regarding tube choice they made the right decision imo.
The 300B Tube is regarded as the very best for Audio reproduction. Since the target audience are those who want just the very best, this is the best choice to get their attention. 
Furthermore there are a lot of current production tubes that are equal or better than NOS tubes of this type.

300B amps of the competition are priced similarly. 

The good news is that they will likely Design a KT88 amp in the future as well, as Euforia tubes are harder and harder to get and unlike 300B the current production tubes don't equal their NOS counterparts. My guess is that it will cost similar to the Euforia as well.
(I also inquired about a custom version of the Euforia with KT88 and they said that they could do that, if you're interested in inquiring for yourself)


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## seenc




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## ThanatosVI (Dec 23, 2021)

seenc said:


>



Such a good looking amp, love it

Can be pre ordered now, starts at 6500€.
Sadly the prices for New gear increases a lot over the past months


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## Renexx

This amp looks so nice but the expenses especially including the tubes is quite high.


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## Deleeh

Hello,

At this price, the thing must really be tip-top, no humming or failure.
300B tubes on a headphone amplifier is also sporty.
I hope Feliks will bring out something next year that will be affordable for most of us again.


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## OctavianH

Honestly this amplifier should be bought after several people have tried it or at least some decent reviews are in place. I am not sure wat tube rolling can be done with 300B (as far as I know you cannot replace them with anything except similar models from other vendors) and I have no idea if on drivers it has automatic bias as the other models. It can sound good or not, with your current gear, but can you risk this for 6500 EUR?


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## Marutks

Deleeh said:


> At this price, the thing must really be tip-top, no humming or failure.



6SN7 tubes are prone to humming.


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## rmsanger (Dec 23, 2021)

so what are the competing tube amps:

Cayin HA-300 (mk2 pending) ~ $4k
Modwright ha300 ~ $8k
AmpsandSound Agartha ~ $6k
Woo WA33 ~ $8k
Viva Egoista 845 ~$10k
Trafomatic Primavera ~ $12k
dna stellaris ~ $10k
Riviera AIC-10 ~ $13k
Allnic HPA-5000 XL ~$8k
Auris Headonia ~ $10k

I guess a few other from Eddie Current, Thomas Mayer, Octave, Arcturus, Manley, etc..


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## Deleeh

Yes, we will probably have to wait until some of them have had the good piece in their hands.
Everything else is just speculation at the moment, apart from the good looks.
Even if Feliks' intentions are to play with the big ones, it's brave of them.
One must also acknowledge that there are not many who dare to do that.

If you compare the inner structure of Euforia back then and today, it has changed a lot.
I think it won't be much different in the Envy, which will also be tidy inside like the current Euforia that you can buy.

Maybe it's just as well the way it is.
If I had heard that there was going to be a Mk3 of the Euforia or something like that I would have been annoyed.
Those who bought one first would also be annoyed.


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## Deceneu808

Oh well...


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## ThanatosVI

Two more colors


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## Jimmyblues1959

rmsanger said:


> so what are the competing tube amps:
> 
> Cayin HA-300 (mk2 pending) ~ $4k
> Modwright ha300 ~ $8k
> ...



I think I'll go out and buy one of each.  That is,  after I hit the lottery..   🤑


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## bpiotrow13 (Dec 25, 2021)

OctavianH said:


> Honestly this amplifier should be bought after several people have tried it or at least some decent reviews are in place. I am not sure wat tube rolling can be done with 300B (as far as I know you cannot replace them with anything except similar models from other vendors) and I have no idea if on drivers it has automatic bias as the other models. It can sound good or not, with your current gear, but can you risk this for 6500 EUR?


Fully agree. With 300b rolling you have EML, Psvane and KR to tube roll with high prices... One needs to think twice before pulling a trigger. Certainly this amp is meant to be one of the top on the matket. Feliks ceases to be aspiring brand any more. Curious to read reliable (i.e. not sponsored) review. In any case prices are going crazy..


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## LarsMan

bpiotrow13 said:


> Fully agree. With 300b rolling you have EML, Psvane and KR to tube roll with high prices... One needs to think twice before pulling a trigger. Certainly this amp is meant to be one of the top on the matket. Feliks ceases to be aspiring brand any more. Curious to read reliable (i.e. not sponsored) review. In any case prices are going crazy..


Western Electric makes nice ones; just got a pair a couple weeks ago! 

I'm sure I could have researched around and found some that sound 'as good or better' for less dough, but I figured I can't go wrong with these, complete with 5-year warranty, they sound great, and I'm happy with them.


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## bpiotrow13

LarsMan said:


> Western Electric makes nice ones; just got a pair a couple weeks ago!
> 
> I'm sure I could have researched around and found some that sound 'as good or better' for less dough, but I figured I can't go wrong with these, complete with 5-year warranty, they sound great, and I'm happy with them.


I guess Western Electric is even more expensive option with usd 1499 for a pair..


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## m-i-c-k-e-y

For new production tubes, Its Elrog. Specially their  molybdenum plate versions ER300B-Mo(300B), ER242(211) and ER284(845).
Don't know the pricing of the new TM300B. Thomas Mayer's (Elrog's new owner) personal tube in capturing the 46 sound on a 300B spec.

Prices


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## ThanatosVI

bpiotrow13 said:


> I guess Western Electric is even more expensive option with usd 1499 for a pair..


There are new production tubes of the original Western Electric Design that Sound sublime and are much more affordable


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## bpiotrow13 (Dec 26, 2021)

ThanatosVI said:


> There are new production tubes of the original Western Electric Design that Sound sublime and are much more affordable


I am afraid @ThanatosVI  that no, this is the price for new production as i understand:

https://www.westernelectric.com/300b


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## bpiotrow13 (Dec 26, 2021)

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> For new production tubes, Its Elrog. Specially their  molybdenum plate versions ER300B-Mo(300B), ER242(211) and ER284(845).
> Don't know the pricing of the new TM300B. Thomas Mayer's (Elrog's new owner) personal tube in capturing the 46 sound on a 300B spec.
> 
> Prices


I see pairs of 300b for eur 1400 and 2400... i thought eur 800 for EML is expensive...

Forget about tube rolling, one can be happy if can afford a single pair..


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## ThanatosVI

bpiotrow13 said:


> I am afraid @ThanatosVI  that no, this is the price for new production as i understand:
> 
> https://www.westernelectric.com/300b


Thanks for Posting the link, made me look deeper into the tubes I found earlier.

I have no 300B amp of my own, therefore got a few details mixed up.

Your link seems to be current production tubes of the original Western Electric Brand. (Didn't know that Western Electric is still up and running)

There are current production tubes of other brands after the original Western Electric Design as well.
For example from PSVane:
https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/psvane-we300b-plus-ein-paar-in-exklusiven-praesentkartons
(PS Vane has also their own 300B Design)

Linlai also offers new production tubes after Western Electric Design
https://btb-elektronik.de/produkt/5...ected-tube-x2-factory-matched-replica-we300b/

I was unaware that there are still original current production WE Tubes.
Thought that all of them were remakes


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## bpiotrow13 (Dec 26, 2021)

ThanatosVI said:


> I was unaware that there are still original current production WE Tubes.
> Thought that all of them were remakes


I belive this is quite recent reissue. I think Psvane has its own premium line called Acme as well.

Not cheap

In any case, going back to the original subject of the thread, it would be good to know how those tubes sound with Feliks Envy


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## LarsMan

bpiotrow13 said:


> I guess Western Electric is even more expensive option with usd 1499 for a pair..


Yes indeed; some serious coin; but then there are those Japanese ones, Takahashi or something like that, that cost twice as much as the WE ones.


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## LarsMan

ThanatosVI said:


> Thanks for Posting the link, made me look deeper into the tubes I found earlier.
> 
> I have no 300B amp of my own, therefore got a few details mixed up.
> 
> ...


It's an interesting story about Western Electric - you should have a read about it on their website if you haven't already. They've been up, down, up, down, but now they are definitely up, as they've got the new plant in Georgia now that is just for making 300B tubes....


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## bpiotrow13

LarsMan said:


> Yes indeed; some serious coin; but then there are those Japanese ones, Takahashi or something like that, that cost twice as much as the WE ones.


Takasuki, but the fact that it is more expensive does not cheer me up


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## TDinCali

This amp really intrigues me. If I didn’t have my current amp I’d order it without hesitation. 

Reading through this thread and their website it’s not clear to me when they will start shipping. Does anyone have any new info??


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## OctavianH

TDinCali said:


> Reading through this thread and their website it’s not clear to me when they will start shipping. Does anyone have any new info??


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## helljudgement

bpiotrow13 said:


> I see pairs of 300b for eur 1400 and 2400... i thought eur 800 for EML is expensive...
> 
> Forget about tube rolling, one can be happy if can afford a single pair..


Excessive tube rolling can and will wear the socket. Personally I've settled on a pair of Linlai and stop looking.

Unfortunately the 300b market are mostly saturated with more expensive boutique options. Even a cheaper pair cost hundreds dollars. Pretty sure part of the pricing has to do the general perception of 300b=excellent/totl sound. Though it is still good to see brands like JJ making great sounding 300b tubes without costing a fortune.


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## Deleeh

Yes, you are right.
Tuberolling can drive you crazy and only costs you in the end.
Kevin from Upsacle Audio shares your similar opinion.
He said in the video that apart from that it can damage the base.
Just give the tube more time and enjoy it if you can.
Some tubes just take 100s of hours to get round.
So in general he recommends not to change tubes indiscriminately because the tubes have to go through the cycle again until they get to the point where they have not been used for a long time.
It is a simple and understandable video he posted on YouTube.
Which also prompted me to make it simple.
In the meantime, I've stuck with the Linlai mainly because they offer pretty solid performance for the money.
But even a capacitor replacement can sometimes be convincing and cheaper than the non plus ultra Nos pair offered on Ebay and the like.
The disadvantage is or can be that the preferred tube later no longer harmonises as before.
And you have to start from scratch to make it fit again.
But most people will probably already have 300b in their drawer where they buy the amplifier.
Some may not have any at all.


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## LarsMan

helljudgement said:


> Excessive tube rolling can and will wear the socket. Personally I've settled on a pair of Linlai and stop looking.
> 
> Unfortunately the 300b market are mostly saturated with more expensive boutique options. Even a cheaper pair cost hundreds dollars. Pretty sure part of the pricing has to do the general perception of 300b=excellent/totl sound. Though it is still good to see brands like JJ making great sounding 300b tubes without costing a fortune.


They are not bad at all - I replaced Gold Lions with JJ's - but I replaced my JJ ones with WE ones costing 3x as much, and they sound superior in every way, as should be expected. But it is not necessary to lay out that kind of money to get _good_ sounding 300B's. But I've stopped looking now!


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## dadracer2

Do we know anything about whether it uses valve or solid state rectification? Does it use point to point wiring and does it employ any negative feedback? These are key issues for any really good SET amp. 
Personally, the real pity is that it does not have speaker outputs. I realise that may not matter to many here, as this is a headphone forum, but it would certainly stop me from shortlisting it. 
The Feliks headphone amps I have heard are excellent and fantastic value for money, but this is a big step up for Feliks in their range price wise.


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## ThanatosVI

dadracer2 said:


> Do we know anything about whether it uses valve or solid state rectification? Does it use point to point wiring and does it employ any negative feedback? These are key issues for any really good SET amp.
> Personally, the real pity is that it does not have speaker outputs. I realise that may not matter to many here, as this is a headphone forum, but it would certainly stop me from shortlisting it.
> The Feliks headphone amps I have heard are excellent and fantastic value for money, but this is a big step up for Feliks in their range price wise.


It uses solid state rectification. 
I'm pretty sure also point to point wiring,  but have no clue about negative Feedback.

However they will surely answer if you ask via emsil.

For speakers there is also thr Feliks Arioso, a pure speaker amp based on 300B tubes (with tube rectification)


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## Louisiana

dadracer2 said:


> The Feliks headphone amps I have heard are excellent and fantastic value for money, but this is a big step up for Feliks in their range price wise.




I can't understand this price development either, especially when you consider what other manufacturers offer for considerably less money.

In my opinion, such overpriced products sell even better, the buyer just then shows what he can afford, in Germany they call such a thing "prestige object", no idea what that's called in English, which is why the manufacturers just keep turning the price screw - I would probably do the same, but who buys at such prices, is to blame.

But of course, every manufacturer is allowed to do that as he wants, no one is forced to buy anything. 

Just my 2 cents...


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## jonathan c

Louisiana said:


> I can't understand this price development either, especially when you consider what other manufacturers offer for considerably less money.
> 
> In my opinion, such overpriced products sell even better, the buyer just then shows what he can afford, in Germany they call such a thing "prestige object", no idea what that's called in English, which is why the manufacturers just keep turning the price screw - I would probably do the same, but who buys at such prices, is to blame.
> 
> ...


Not 2 euro / 2 deutschmark ?


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## Deleeh

Louisiana said:


> I can't understand this price development either, especially when you consider what other manufacturers offer for considerably less money.
> 
> In my opinion, such overpriced products sell even better, the buyer just then shows what he can afford, in Germany they call such a thing "prestige object", no idea what that's called in English, which is why the manufacturers just keep turning the price screw - I would probably do the same, but who buys at such prices, is to blame.
> 
> ...


I'm right there with you.
I don't understand it either - if we were talking about 50$/€, I'd put up with it.
But it has to be said that Euforia have made considerable steps in circuit design from the first construction until today.
It is no longer a whole circuit board but has been divided into 3 parts that are mounted on a solid sheet of metal.
Actually well thought out, and the board seems to be of higher quality.
The justification of all 3 models Elise,Euforia and Ae is still missing to me for the lavish price increase.

I think the Envy has taken these steps into account as well.
And maybe they went back to better parts.
Still, you can't judge it at the moment because you haven't seen any pictures of the inside yet.
That no effort has been spared to build and offer such an amplifier is beyond question.
Whether it is worth it, we will see, most people will
certainly not buy it.
I think it will be more for the middle class customers who really want it and are willing to spend that amount of money and for people who have money.

Considering where Feliks started and where they are today, it's okay.
With the Echo 2, they already serve a good product for people who want to get a taste of it and remain affordable. And with the Elise and Euforia, the next level up, and with the Ae and Envy, one level up again.
You can't really blame them if they want to grow in the company.


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## OctavianH (Dec 30, 2021)

Price is always in direct correlation with demand. They will not ask it if nobody will pay it. There is a market for these amplifiers and they just want to explore it near other companies already doing that. In my case things are simple, I do not want a 300B amplifier, so they can sell it for 1000 eur and I will not buy it. But others pay tens of thousands.


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## Rebel Chris

What's the performance upgrade mentioned on the website? How many hours will the tubes last?

It looks stunning, would like more photos of the different wood options.


----------



## OctavianH

Rebel Chris said:


> What's the performance upgrade mentioned on the website? How many hours will the tubes last?


Performance Edition includes :

Full Music 300B power tubes
UPOCC (single crystal copper) signal wiring


----------



## rmsanger

Louisiana said:


> I can't understand this price development either, especially when you consider what other manufacturers offer for considerably less money.
> 
> In my opinion, such overpriced products sell even better, the buyer just then shows what he can afford, in Germany they call such a thing "prestige object", no idea what that's called in English, which is why the manufacturers just keep turning the price screw - I would probably do the same, but who buys at such prices, is to blame.
> 
> ...



See my prior post #54 where I name the competitors and existing price points.  Not trying to start an argument but want to clearly lay out the field of alternative/competing models of the same quality, components, and capability level as the Envy.   My list ranged from $4k - $12k so the envy would be somewhere right in the middle.  I'd like to expand my list of new tube amps on the market so please suggest some brands/models that we can add.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-envy.960600/post-16726851


----------



## Marutks

Louisiana said:


> in Germany they call such a thing "prestige object", no idea what that's called in English



The Envy would look really good together with ZMF headphones.


----------



## Renexx

Marutks said:


> The Envy would look really good together with ZMF headphones.


 That would be a sweet combination.

I'm excited to see those custom wood finishes.
But the pricetag of this amp really would hurt and I'm not sure how much better it will syngerize with ZMF headphones than my Euphoria AE.


----------



## LarsMan

Louisiana said:


> I can't understand this price development either, especially when you consider what other manufacturers offer for considerably less money.
> 
> In my opinion, such overpriced products sell even better, the buyer just then shows what he can afford, in Germany they call such a thing "prestige object", no idea what that's called in English, which is why the manufacturers just keep turning the price screw - I would probably do the same, but who buys at such prices, is to blame.
> 
> ...


In English, that might be called a 'status symbol'.....


----------



## LarsMan

ThanatosVI said:


> There are new production tubes of the original Western Electric Design that Sound sublime and are much more affordable


That *is* the price for the new production ones; just got a pair the other week from WE. They do indeed sound sublime!


----------



## bpiotrow13 (Dec 30, 2021)

OctavianH said:


> Price is always in direct correlation with demand. They will not ask it if nobody will pay it. There is a market for these amplifiers and they just want to explore it near other companies already doing that. In my case things are simple, I do not want a 300B amplifier, so they can sell it for 1000 eur and I will not buy it. But others pay tens of thousands.


Fully agree. I think the price has a lot more to do with demand than with quality here. Obviously this is probably a good product, but price is so high mainly due to the fact people are ready to pay that much for it. Feliks is clearly trying to capitalise the fact it has become widely known. Look at Feliks prices a couple of years ago. 

Broadly, prices of headphones and accompanying gear has gone crazy. It is because of us agreeing to pay more, prices will drop only when people say no...


----------



## ThanatosVI

Louisiana said:


> I can't understand this price development either, especially when you consider what other manufacturers offer for considerably less money.


Which options are you referring to at a considerably lower price point?

From my knowledge they don't ask more than the competition,  so apparently I lack knowledge about a few amps in that class


----------



## bpiotrow13 (Dec 30, 2021)

Deleeh said:


> I think it will be more for the middle class customers who really want it and are willing to spend that amount of money and for people who have money.


I am not quite sure this is for middle class anymore This is EUR 6500 for a headphone amp. Add Headphones, cables, sources and You will end up well above EUR 10k..


----------



## Louisiana

Marutks said:


> The Envy would look really good together with ZMF headphones.


For sure!
The Envy was also at the top of my list, at the beginning it was said by Feliks Audio on their FB page that the Envy would move around the 4k€.
Now it will probably be a Cayin HA-6A for me.



jonathan c said:


> Not 2 euro / 2 deutschmark ?


Ostmark!



OctavianH said:


> UPOCC (single crystal copper) signal wiring



Which in my eyes brings no benefit at all, but the customer pays it gladly.

Behind the tube amps is a certain technology, which has not changed for decades, the only thing that would justify such a high price, would be a correspondingly high-quality housing, or other appealing goodies, such as a VU meters, or whatever...


----------



## Louisiana

ThanatosVI said:


> Which options are you referring to at a considerably lower price point?
> 
> From my knowledge they don't ask more than the competition,  so apparently I lack knowledge about a few amps in that class


Against your Octave, the Envy is of course a bargain, which is why it certainly doesn't make much sense for us to talk about it.

The problem in our beloved hobby is that there are no limits upwards, but the price-performance ratio is getting worse and worse.
I love my ifi stack, for me the Pro series is one of the nicest ever, but in a blind test I couldn't tell my Pro iCAN from a Topping A90.


----------



## Rebel Chris

There aren't many 300b headphone amps around aren't they?

The envy isn't my cup of thee, but it's greet to see Feliks Audio grow. It's a nice surprise, next tot the other headphone amps.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Louisiana said:


> Against your Octave, the Envy is of course a bargain, which is why it certainly doesn't make much sense for us to talk about it.
> 
> The problem in our beloved hobby is that there are no limits upwards, but the price-performance ratio is getting worse and worse.
> I love my ifi stack, for me the Pro series is one of the nicest ever, but in a blind test I couldn't tell my Pro iCAN from a Topping A90.


I genuinely asked about the other options at lower price points for my own education.
As I said, I don't think the Envy is priced extremely high compared to the competition. 
They are all just priced very high.

However I totally agree that the price development in the last decade is ridiculous. 

I also wouldn't own the Octave if I have not had a crazy bargain on a 2nd hand unit.
I paid 4250€ for it and another 1250€ for the Super Black Box.(new prices are 10k for the amp and 2750 for the SBB)
To me this is an investment that I can sell for profit when I change gear again in the (distant) future.

Without that offer I'd still use the Cayin HA-6A at a much more affordable price point


----------



## LarsMan

Rebel Chris said:


> There aren't many 300b headphone amps around aren't they?
> 
> The envy isn't my cup of thee, but it's greet to see Feliks Audio grow. It's a nice surprise, next tot the other headphone amps.


There are a few though, US and non-US made, and I seem to notice more as time goes on. I've got an Eddie Current Studio B myself - wonderful sounding!!


----------



## rmsanger

ThanatosVI said:


> I genuinely asked about the other options at lower price points for my own education.
> As I said, I don't think the Envy is priced extremely high compared to the competition.
> They are all just priced very high.
> 
> ...


That is what I was getting at can we compare the pricing and performance of KT88 and Lower tier tube amps with the 300b amps?  or is the the appropriate shopping benchmark other 300b, 23A, or 845 based tube amps?

Again genuinely curious on how to compare pricing and competition for this product.


----------



## Rebel Chris

LarsMan said:


> There are a few though, US and non-US made, and I seem to notice more as time goes on. I've got an Eddie Current Studio B myself - wonderful sounding!!


Haha, lucky you. To bad Eddie stopped making them. 

Ampsandsound Agartha looks good, but I'm dreaming of a Viva Egoista. The first operates in the same price bracket, the Viva is in an other league.


----------



## kvik

Below the 300B dedicated headphone amp that I am aware of..

Poland: Feliks Envy (€6500)
Poland: WBA Virtus 300B ($1488)
France: Pier Audio MS-300 HD (€3000)
France: Halgorythme Bloc Stéréo SE 300B 6W (€3000)
France: Audion Silver Night HP1 (STD €5000, Insignia €6350, Excelsior €11500)
USA: ModWright HA 300 Headphone Amp ($7900)
USA: Ampsandsound Agartha ($6300)
USA: Eddie Current Studio B ($3300)
Thailand: The Minute 300B Amplifier by SAC Thailand
China: Opera Consonance Linear X (€6100)
?: Fostex HP-V8 (€10000)

 A handful (or so) 300B integrated amps with HP-out are also out there.


----------



## bpiotrow13

kvik said:


> Below the 300B dedicated headphone amp that I am aware of..
> 
> Poland: Feliks Envy (€6500)
> Poland: WBA Virtus 300B ($1488)
> ...


Very helpful. I would add Polish Sinusaudio. It is based on 2a3, but possible also with 300b. It is a bit above eur 1k but this is OTL design.


----------



## bpiotrow13

ThanatosVI said:


> However I totally agree that the price development in the last decade is ridiculous.
> 
> I also wouldn't own the Octave if I have not had a crazy bargain on a 2nd hand unit.


Pretty much the same with me and probably some others benefiting from second hand market 

i recently have switched to OTL amp. Though this design is not the best for planars it is generally cheaper than transformer coupled amps and i like the sound better.


----------



## Nicolas Yance

kvik said:


> Below the 300B dedicated headphone amp that I am aware of..
> 
> Poland: Feliks Envy (€6500)
> Poland: WBA Virtus 300B ($1488)
> ...


The WA5 2nd gen from Woo Audio.


----------



## rex4539

Feliks Audio said they are considering to include speaker connectors and they can definitely do it upon request, even if not included as standard.

If you need speaker connectors, just ask for it.


----------



## ThanatosVI

kvik said:


> Below the 300B dedicated headphone amp that I am aware of..
> 
> Poland: Feliks Envy (€6500)
> Poland: WBA Virtus 300B ($1488)
> ...


Thank you,  never heard of these french amps before. 
White Bird Amplification looks interesting. Unfortunately all OTL which makes them Bad matches for low impedance planars.


----------



## helljudgement

rmsanger said:


> I was getting at can we compare the pricing and performance of KT88 and Lower tier tube amps with the 300b amps?


Having 300b doesn't immediately make an amp a tier above the rest. I enjoyed listening to my Starlett and the Zana deux more than the 300b wa5 (gen1) and those amps uses the not as popular 6DG6 and 6C33C-B output tubes respectively. Synergy and implementation is key and tubes are just a part of the equation.


----------



## bpiotrow13

ThanatosVI said:


> Unfortunately all OTL which makes them Bad matches for low impedance planars.


Seems so, this is the reason i have switched to Verite Open


----------



## bpiotrow13

helljudgement said:


> Having 300b doesn't immediately make an amp a tier above the rest. I enjoyed listening to my Starlett and the Zana deux more than the 300b wa5 (gen1) and those amps uses the not as popular 6DG6 and 6C33C-B output tubes respectively. Synergy and implementation is key and tubes are just a part of the equation.


Absolutely, synergy and good implementation is everything. There is some myth behind DHT such as 300b though. These are good tubes but quite pricey because of their recognition.


----------



## moosemp

bpiotrow13 said:


> Absolutely, synergy and good implementation is everything. There is some myth behind DHT such as 300b though. These are good tubes but quite pricey because of their recognition.


That is right. ZMF Verite will be good both closed and open, I guess Focal Utopia and Meze EMPYREAN TOO. Btw-my Feliks 20 ANNIVERSARY is still with me, I do believe ENVY will be excellent


----------



## moosemp

ThanatosVI said:


> https://www.facebook.com/186733015402071/posts/1106974266711270/?sfnsn=scwspmo
> 
> It's certainly one of the best looking amps ever created.
> They make it really hard not to get it.
> ...


I can justify it in addition to my Octave, even if Octave now has El 34 tubes


----------



## ThanatosVI

moosemp said:


> I can justify it in addition to my Octave, even if Octave now has El 34 tubes


Which Octave are you using?
If it's the V16 be careful with too many EL34, while it's written in the Manual to Support EL34, there seem to be some that produce issues.


----------



## moosemp

v16. Very nice sounding with PSVANE uk el 34


----------



## moosemp

moosemp said:


> v16. Very nice sounding with PSVANE uk el 34


I even started a thread on tubes rolling with v16 but nobody joined


----------



## ThanatosVI

moosemp said:


> v16. Very nice sounding with PSVANE uk el 34


Good to know. Might try them sometime,
However wanted to share that EL34 are no longer in the supported tubes Sheet because some EL34 variants caused problems. (KT170 aren't supported either)


----------



## ThanatosVI

moosemp said:


> I even started a thread on tubes rolling with v16 but nobody joined


Please Link me to it, I'd love to share my impressions and read up on others.


----------



## moosemp

ThanatosVI said:


> Please Link me to it, I'd love to share my impressions and read up on others.


Just search Octave V 16 SE tubes rolling 
I am eagerly awaiting Your opinion


----------



## bpiotrow13

moosemp said:


> I guess Focal Utopia and Meze EMPYREAN TOO


I would be cautious about Meze empyrean. They may not be the best for 300b, with their a bit loose bas, but one needs to try with particular amp. Meze i used to have played very well with 45 types tubes, which are more linear than 300b. i did not tried them with 300b amp though.


----------



## moosemp

bpiotrow13 said:


> I would be cautious about Meze empyrean. They may not be the best for 300b, with their a bit loose bas, but one needs to try with particular amp. Meze i used to have played very well with 45 types tubes, which are more linear than 300b. i did not tried them with 300b amp though.


Empy with AYON HA3 is a killer combo


----------



## moosemp

bpiotrow13 said:


> I would be cautious about Meze empyrean. They may not be the best for 300b, with their a bit loose bas, but one needs to try with particular amp. Meze i used to have played very well with 45 types tubes, which are more linear than 300b. i did not tried them with 300b amp though.


You are right with Meze loose low end but they arę so colorfull that I can’t wait to try it with 300B


----------



## bpiotrow13

moosemp said:


> You are right with Meze loose low end but they arę so colorfull that I can’t wait to try it with 300B


Let us know Your impressions


----------



## bpiotrow13

moosemp said:


> Empy with AYON HA3 is a killer combo


Indeed, really stunning synergy. i have sold both my Ayon ha 3 and meze, but they are now with my friend, who is very pleased with this combo.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Has anyone already ordered an Envy?


----------



## moosemp

ThanatosVI said:


> Has anyone already ordered an Envy?


Yes. We are dealing with custom options and hence The final price is not set


----------



## ThanatosVI

moosemp said:


> Yes. We are dealing with custom options and hence The final price is not set


I wrote them a Mail about custom options 4 days ago,  but still wait on a reply.

Did you hear from them this week?
Just figured they have a few days off during new years


----------



## moosemp

ThanatosVI said:


> I wrote them a Mail about custom options 4 days ago,  but still wait on a reply.
> 
> Did you hear from them this week?
> Just figured they have a few days off during new years


I guess so, my contact with them was ok ever since I ordered Euforia 20 ann. Once decision was made without even listening I am not in a hurry. Also- money to earn…


----------



## Ultrainferno

My Envy should be here on Friday if Fedex Cooperates


----------



## ThanatosVI

Ultrainferno said:


> My Envy should be here on Friday if Fedex Cooperates


Looking forward to your impressions. 

Which wood option did you order?
Any customizations?


----------



## Ultrainferno

ThanatosVI said:


> Looking forward to your impressions.
> 
> Which wood option did you order?
> Any customizations?



It should come with the performance pack, but apart from that it will be a surprise for me as well. I will keep you posted once I find out myself on Friday


----------



## rex4539

Ultrainferno said:


> It should come with the performance pack, but apart from that it will be a surprise for me as well. I will keep you posted once I find out myself on Friday


Did you ask Lukasz to add speaker connectors on the back too? They said they can do it for those who ask for it. Would be great to find out how it performs with sensitive speakers.


----------



## ThanatosVI

rex4539 said:


> Did you ask Lukasz to add speaker connectors on the back too? They said they can do it for those who ask for it. Would be great to find out how it performs with sensitive speakers.


Interesting, thx for the info

I wonder when they will reply to my mail


----------



## Deceneu808

Ultrainferno said:


> It should come with the performance pack, but apart from that it will be a surprise for me as well. I will keep you posted once I find out myself on Friday


You should of had it weeks ago, I was promised a review by the end of 2021. Jk. Keep us posted when it arrives


----------



## Ultrainferno

Teaser


----------



## ThanatosVI

Ultrainferno said:


> Teaser


American Walnut, nice.
Can't wait for impressions. 

Unfortunately my Mails still don't get answered


----------



## bpiotrow13

Ultrainferno said:


> Teaser


I demand more photos


----------



## Deleeh

More pic‘s please 😁✌️😁✌️


----------



## Ultrainferno (Jan 14, 2022)

Ok, here's one more. I didn't install the front grills


----------



## bpiotrow13

Ultrainferno said:


> Ok, here's one more. I didn't install the front grills


When do You think the review is available (i assume there will be one)?


----------



## ThanatosVI

Ultrainferno said:


> Ok, here's one more. I didn't install the front grills


Sp beautiful,  was nicer with this wood type.
I wonder when they show more wood types


----------



## Ultrainferno

bpiotrow13 said:


> When do You think the review is available (i assume there will be one)?



Aiming for February


----------



## Ultrainferno

ThanatosVI said:


> Sp beautiful,  was nicer with this wood type.
> I wonder when they show more wood types


I suppose the other review units will have a different type of wood


----------



## Deleeh

Thank you,it looks damm good.👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Have fun with it 😉😉😉😉😉😉


----------



## bpiotrow13

Ultrainferno said:


> Aiming for February


Man, people are waiting


----------



## rmsanger

wow that is a beautiful amp.. right up there with Viva Egoista and DNA Stellaris!


----------



## ThanatosVI

rmsanger said:


> wow that is a beautiful amp.. right up there with Viva Egoista and DNA Stellaris!


It looks so much better than the other two imo.
Only the Wa33 is on a similar level in terms of aesthetics.

Of course this is even more subjective than opinions in sound...


----------



## Deceneu808

Ultrainferno said:


> Aiming for February


Please share some first impressions before the full review. Does it still have the power button on the back ? What headphones are going to be tested with it ? I'm curious how it handles the likes of Susvara but also very sensitive planars like 20ohm lcd-x and 14ohm lcd-5. Also curious about high impedance dynamics. Have fun with it ! Ordering mine later this year


----------



## Rebel Chris

Beautiful! Looking forward to see it in the flesh! Hopefully I will see/here it this year on show


----------



## Ultrainferno

Deceneu808 said:


> Please share some first impressions before the full review. Does it still have the power button on the back ? What headphones are going to be tested with it ? I'm curious how it handles the likes of Susvara but also very sensitive planars like 20ohm lcd-x and 14ohm lcd-5. Also curious about high impedance dynamics. Have fun with it ! Ordering mine later this year



Empyrean, Elite, LCD-5, LCD-XC, LCD-MX4, HD800/S, Dt1990, Susvara, He1000se, Thror, HEDD, etc. You know, the usual 😉


----------



## ThanatosVI

Ultrainferno said:


> Empyrean, Elite, LCD-5, LCD-XC, LCD-MX4, HD800/S, Dt1990, Susvara, He1000se, Thror, HEDD, etc. You know, the usual 😉


If possible please also get the T+A headphones into the test lineup.
As well as the Meze Liric.


----------



## rmsanger

+verite closed if possible

always VC on tubes!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Liric I can do but it really doesn't need an amp like this


----------



## ThanatosVI

Nothing NEEDS and amp like this, but amps like this are awesome and we love to pair it with our headphones, even the Non summit fi ones.


----------



## LoryWiv

Deceneu808 said:


> Please share some first impressions before the full review. Does it still have the power button on the back ? What headphones are going to be tested with it ? I'm curious how it handles the likes of Susvara but also very sensitive planars like 20ohm lcd-x and 14ohm lcd-5. Also curious about high impedance dynamics. Have fun with it ! Ordering mine later this year


What is output impedance? That may have an impact on high it pairs w/lower impedance HP's.


----------



## ThanatosVI

LoryWiv said:


> What is output impedance? That may have an impact on high it pairs w/lower impedance HP's.


It's output impedance is

Amplifier’s impedance:
– LO at 32Ω load is 3,8Ω
– MID at 100Ω load is 8,8Ω
– HI at 600Ω is 20Ω
It should work well with everything except for IEMs


----------



## Ultrainferno

Loving this combo!


----------



## ThanatosVI

Ultrainferno said:


> Loving this combo!


That power LED is nice, can you post some pictures from a darker room in the evening?


----------



## Ultrainferno

sure, will try to remember tonight


----------



## rmsanger

Interesting... in contract is makes the Envy look tiny... should be a good form factor for a desktop setup.


----------



## Marutks

Ultrainferno said:


> Loving this combo!



Does it hum with ZMF Verite or Focal Stellia headphones?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Marutks said:


> Does it hum with ZMF Verite or Focal Stellia headphones?


I sold all my Focals and have no ZMF 😁😉


----------



## Deceneu808

Ultrainferno said:


> I sold all my Focals and have no ZMF 😁😉


Interested in Susvara performance. That's what they claim to have designed it for. "Hard to drive planners"


----------



## Ultrainferno

ThanatosVI said:


> That power LED is nice, can you post some pictures from a darker room in the evening?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Deceneu808 said:


> Interested in Susvara performance. That's what they claim to have designed it for. "Hard to drive planners"


Today was HE6se, Susvara and HEDD. But since it arrived, the Susvara probably is the headphone I used most. The Headonia and Susvara combo is exceptional, so this will indeed be a very important combo for the review


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,

Quick question.
Is it possible to see the inside when you open the lid if there is one underneath the housing?
Could you take a photo of it?


----------



## moosemp

Would be interesting how it performs with ABYSS 1266, that is my Intention to use this combo


----------



## Deceneu808

@Ultrainferno Any updates you might like to share for the thirsty ?


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

He is in a bliss...He can't or won't bother to see your post...


----------



## Renexx

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> He is in a bliss...He can't or won't bother to see your post...



i can relate, staying in bliss with  Euphoria AE on WE421a steroids  until the first reviews and impressions pop up and synergy with ZMF headphones is confirmed


----------



## Ultrainferno

Deceneu808 said:


> @Ultrainferno Any updates you might like to share for the thirsty ?





m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> He is in a bliss...He can't or won't bother to see your post...


I am here. Had no time for Envy this week, world premiere from chord coming up next week 😉


----------



## ThanatosVI

Ultrainferno said:


> I am here. Had no time for Envy this week, world premiere from chord coming up next week 😉


Get your priorities straight,  how can the Envy be less important than something from chord


----------



## GU1DO

Anybody know the volume controller in this amp ? 
I hope its not alps pot


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

A $45 part on a $7K amp. 

What strike me most on this amp is its form factor (like Cayin HA-300, ModWright HA300, Original OPA-3A, aside from other alternatives that have been mentioned already. There is also a custom route. Was looking at Halgorythme and Ultrasonic Studios (again) the other day (I'm in EU). 

So a lot of (Imelda Marcos) shoes to fill. Will see .


----------



## ThanatosVI

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> A $45 part on a $7K amp.
> 
> What strike me most on this amp is its form factor (like Cayin HA-300, ModWright HA300, Original OPA-3A, aside from other alternatives that have been mentioned already. There is also a custom route. Was looking at Halgorythme and Ultrasonic Studios (again) the other day (I'm in EU).
> 
> So a lot of (Imelda Marcos) shoes to fill. Will see.


Thanks for sharing all the links. 
The Original OPA-3A looks nice, even if the output impedance is too high.


----------



## RobertSM

Any new news?


----------



## moosemp

Good news- my Envy is going to be deliveded in the beginning of March


----------



## Ultrainferno (Feb 4, 2022)

Turned Envy back on Yesterday - As you know we had a Mojo 2 deadline, so now it's back to the Feliks amp


----------



## TheSoloist

Curious to know how this amp pairs with the Empyrean, not sure if anyone happen to have both gears in the arsenal


----------



## jg1337

TheSoloist said:


> Curious to know how this amp pairs with the Empyrean, not sure if anyone happen to have both gears in the arsenal


My Envy will arrive on Monday and I do own an Empyrean, as well as a Focal Stellia, beyerdynamic T1.2 and T5.3. I will report back especially on the Empy pairing.


----------



## Deceneu808

Where the reviews at ?


----------



## ThanatosVI

Deceneu808 said:


> Where the reviews at ?


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

They are still busy...


----------



## jg1337

The Envy arrived yesterday. What a mighty parcel! I will need another week or two until I can finish a more in-depth write-up comparing it to my Euforia (non-AE). One thing I will say already - it sounds absolutely magical and beyond what I could imagine 300B tubes could do in a headphone rig. It is jaw-dropping (so is the price!) and definitely the most resolving yet musical amplifier I have ever heard PERIOD. I can't take my Empyrean off my head, it is such good it's virtually distracting at first.


----------



## ThanatosVI

jg1337 said:


> The Envy arrived yesterday. What a mighty parcel! I will need another week or two until I can finish a more in-depth write-up comparing it to my Euforia (non-AE). One thing I will say already - it sounds absolutely magical and beyond what I could imagine 300B tubes could do in a headphone rig. It is jaw-dropping (so is the price!) and definitely the most resolving yet musical amplifier I have ever heard PERIOD. I can't take my Empyrean off my head, it is such good it's virtually distracting at first.


Envy - Empyrean, one of the most interesting combos. Looking forward to your detailed impressions


----------



## jg1337

ThanatosVI said:


> Envy - Empyrean, one of the most interesting combos. Looking forward to your detailed impressions


I did already listen to a few songs with the Stellia and the T1.2 - well, it does sound very good. However, I think the Empyrean is the most magical pairing with this amp (of the headphones I own, see signature). Quick impressions on the Envy-Empy (compared to the rest of the amps I have previously listened to most of the times):

very natural overall timbre, vocals sound even more pleasingly beautiful and refined
perfectly accurate staging and depth to the stage
strong, dry and accurate bass which blends in very nicely while remaining absolute clarity, separation and punch, absolutely no mud in lower mid or bass frequency range 

I feel there is so much more that I can't yet describe because I am lacking experience with this amp - especially since I only listened to digital sources so far - and I am an analogue guy! Most of the records I have absolutely blow Tidal or other digitally available formats out of the water. But for the sake of ease I decided I will put some more hard-kicking digital music first.


----------



## Marutks

jg1337 said:


> I did already listen to a few songs with the Stellia



Is there any background noise?  Stellia is super sensitive headphone.


----------



## jg1337

Marutks said:


> Is there any background noise?  Stellia is super sensitive headphone.


That's true - connected to the Euforia - the headphone renders a very noticeable humming sound on one channel. However, the Envy is dead quiet (or at least as quite as amps get with such sensitive headphones, even my SPL Phonitor has a very very low level of noise). So is the DarkVoice 336, by the way. It is still okay to listen to music on the Euforia, but it's the kind of hum that people will ask you "...and you buy a >2 grand € headphone amp and it makes these noises??"


----------



## TheSoloist

jg1337 said:


> I did already listen to a few songs with the Stellia and the T1.2 - well, it does sound very good. However, I think the Empyrean is the most magical pairing with this amp (of the headphones I own, see signature). Quick impressions on the Envy-Empy (compared to the rest of the amps I have previously listened to most of the times):
> 
> very natural overall timbre, vocals sound even more pleasingly beautiful and refined
> perfectly accurate staging and depth to the stage
> ...


Great to hear some initial feedback such positive. The improved vocal point make me start wanting this amp.


----------



## Renexx (Feb 15, 2022)

Comparison to the Euphoria will be very interesting!  
Im so tempted but its so much money and 300b are also very expensive.
Love the tuberolling on the Euphoria and synergy with ZMF headphones.

My Euphoria AE is dead quiet at my listening levels with most  of my tubes.


----------



## haweckO

Hi guys,

let me ask you, does Envy has any gain switch? or the 8 Watts of power is available on full volume knob range?


----------



## mfgillia

haweckO said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> let me ask you, does Envy has any gain switch? or the 8 Watts of power is available on full volume knob range?


Also is it really 8 watts of power because their website seemed to imply something different versus the traditional convention of rating power at maximum 1% THD. From their preorder page: "Output powered measured at MID impedance setting at load of 16Ω is 5W with THD ⩽1% (maximum 8W at THD >5%)."


----------



## haweckO

mfgillia said:


> Also is it really 8 watts of power because their website seemed to imply something different versus the traditional convention of rating power at maximum 1% THD. From their preorder page: "Output powered measured at MID impedance setting at load of 16Ω is 5W with THD ⩽1% (maximum 8W at THD >5%)."


In that case, I am curious if this amp could drive Susvara properly


----------



## mfgillia

haweckO said:


> In that case, I am curious if this amp could drive Susvara properly


Me too - could potentially help in my internal struggle to rationalize the purchase of the Envy...


----------



## ostalon

Renexx said:


> Comparison to the Euphoria will be very interesting!
> Im so tempted but its so much money and 300b are also very expensive.
> Love the tuberolling on the Euphoria and synergy with ZMF headphones.
> 
> My Euphoria AE is dead quiet at my listening levels with most  of my tubes.


Which power tube is quite matching euforia with zmf? Is 300b tube rolling  very costly?


----------



## ThanatosVI

ostalon said:


> Is 300b tube rolling very costly?


Comparstively yes. 
The cheapest start at around 100€ per piece.
The most sought after tubes are around 500 to 1500 per piece.


----------



## Renexx

ostalon said:


> Which power tube is quite matching euforia with zmf? Is 300b tube rolling  very costly?


Yes tube Rolling on the Envy will be more limited and expensive even more compared to the Euphoria.

Euphoria synergizes with all of the power tubes and ZMF headphones, it's all about your preferred sound taste. Warm or more neutral or maybe tubes that do staging pretty well.
5998/421a and GEC 6as7 offer  the best resolution overall.


----------



## helljudgement

ostalon said:


> Which power tube is quite matching euforia with zmf? Is 300b tube rolling  very costly?


Range from 150-2000 a pair for new prod. I'd skip nos and just get the new prod ones as they are generally good across the range. A more neutral tube like linlai and eml are more suited for zmf so I'd recommend getting one of those and be done with it. Excessive tube rolling wears not only one's wallet but more importantly the tube sockets so I'd advise to do it sparingly.


----------



## Deleeh (Feb 19, 2022)

Hello,
Yes, the 300b are already lavishly priced, a good mid-range pair will set you back a good 500-600$/€.

I found the Linlai 6SN7 not neutral sounding at least not on the Euforia.
I found it a lot better than the Ps Vane that came as standard and it was warmer but still neutral enough in the dosage and played a bit deeper than the Ps Vane.
And it gives a much nicer low end and a great sweet spot.
I found the Ps Vane just too cool for my taste without fireworks and a bit powerless.

But it would be time for more inputs about the amp and maybe some nice pictures of the inside.😁
With 8 watts of power, I believe that it will also effortlessly drive very hard to drive headphones like the Suvara.
What I don't like so much is the switch between low, mid and high gain.
Maybe it could have been done more discreetly for the price tag.
A rough idea would be a screen that shows you the ohmic value when you plug it in, and you can adjust it yourself as you need it.
I assume that fixed voltages are output by the dip switch and the adjustment with the volume control takes place in the handling.


----------



## krude (Feb 26, 2022)

mfgillia said:


> Also is it really 8 watts of power because their website seemed to imply something different versus the traditional convention of rating power at maximum 1% THD. From their preorder page: "Output powered measured at MID impedance setting at load of 16Ω is 5W with THD ⩽1% (maximum 8W at THD >5%)."


If it's 5w into 16Ohm with mid impedance, Susvara is 60Ohm, so if it would have linear power curve it would be around 1.25W for Susvara. For comparison Ferrum Oor (a bit apples and organes as it's solid state) is rated at 8w per channel into 60Ohm, so if those assumptions are correct the Oor is pretty much 6x more powerful, and from my experience it has 2x power needed for Susvara (so knob at 12 o clock rocking out with plenty of headroom to spare, again assuming volume curve is more less linear). I would think that 3W into 60Ohm should be plenty for Susvara, 1.5W driving power + 1.5W headroom ... but ...

... it is all on the assumption that the amp has a linear curve, it may not, so who knows ... also it would be a fair guess that WOO WA33 is 2x as powerful juding by the tube configuration, but again ... only the manufacturers or really dedicated buyers who can test and measure can answer those questions.

For comparison HA6a on KT88 has just about enough to drive Susvara properly, it could do with a bit of headroom though


----------



## rmsanger

krude said:


> If it's 5w into 16Ohm with mid impedance, Susvara is 60Ohm, so if it would have linear power curve it would be around 1.25W for Susvara. For comparison Ferrum Oor (a bit apples and organes as it's solid state) is rated at 8w per channel into 60Ohm, so if those assumptions are correct the Oor is pretty much 6x more powerful, and from my experience it has 2x power needed for Susvara (so knob at 12 o clock rocking out with plenty of headroom to spare, again assuming volume curve is more less linear). I would think that 3W into 60Ohm should be plenty for Susvara, 1.5W driving power + 1.5W headroom ... but ...
> 
> ... it is all on the assumption that the amp has a linear curve, it may not, so who knows ... also it would be a fair guess that WOO WA33 is 2x as powerful juding by the tube configuration, but again ... only the manufacturers or really dedicated buyers who can test and measure can answer those questions.
> 
> For comparison HA6a on KT88 has just about enough to drive Susvara properly, it could do with a bit of headroom though


This is where we need more clarification for 1266 Phi TC / Sus / HE6 owners... We all know we have difficult cans to drive but at what point is watts important (diminishing marginal returns) vs. current.   I see many of the Wells Dragon owners talking more about having high current than outright watts as the driving synergy force.. Same can be said for the Pathos inEar pol amp as well.  

Perhaps current is part of the discussion with the Envy.


----------



## krude

rmsanger said:


> This is where we need more clarification for 1266 Phi TC / Sus / HE6 owners... We all know we have difficult cans to drive but at what point is watts important (diminishing marginal returns) vs. current.   I see many of the Wells Dragon owners talking more about having high current than outright watts as the driving synergy force.. Same can be said for the Pathos inEar pol amp as well.
> 
> Perhaps current is part of the discussion with the Envy.


Indeed, waiting for first owners to test with Susvara under heavy load to see how much headroom there is and if there is any clipping.


----------



## Deceneu808




----------



## Deceneu808

I bet they can't keep up with orders with all the raging reviews going on


----------



## George Chronis

Deceneu808 said:


> I bet they can't keep up with orders with all the raging reviews going on


----------



## marcusd

Our review of the new Envy is up! The headroom is good with the Susvara, the impedance switches have some real purpose here with planars best set to the 'hi' impedance setting. It also looks beautiful with those Fullmusic H300b tubes, no denying that.

https://headfonics.com/feliks-audio-envy-review/


----------



## ThanatosVI

marcusd said:


> Our review of the new Envy is up! The headroom is good with the Susvara, the impedance switches have some real purpose here with planars best set to the 'hi' impedance setting. It also looks beautiful with those Fullmusic H300b tubes, no denying that.
> 
> https://headfonics.com/feliks-audio-envy-review/


Finally a review and an extensive one at that


----------



## marcusd

ThanatosVI said:


> Finally a review and an extensive one at that


most welcome, hope it helps


----------



## Deleeh

Hey ,
nice report,and thank you for it.
Is it possible to compare with the Euforia in few words?


----------



## krude

marcusd said:


> most welcome, hope it helps


It will certainly help my wallet to lose some weight 😂


----------



## marcusd

Deleeh said:


> Hey ,
> nice report,and thank you for it.
> Is it possible to compare with the Euforia in few words?


Unfortunately, I do not have the Euforia to comment on, another one of our guys did that review a few years back but in speaking with Feliks a few days ago they did comment on the differences. (I hope they don't mind me paraphrasing here).

1. OTL (e.g Euforia) vs non-OTL (Envy). 
2. The Envy can sustain a much higher voltage and current (therefore power) - for example, Euforia can deliver only about 4V (with no load) compared to 16V of Envy (with no load). This is why dynamic headphones are so good with OTL - they don't need high voltage to drive them well. 

"An analogy to a firehose - OTL is a thin pipe, the stream can flow far, but if you want to increase the volume of water, the stream will start getting shorter. Non-OTL is just a big fat pipe with a lot of pressure in it."


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
thanks again, .
Yes they can help. Sound logical.


----------



## rmsanger

One point I'd like to discuss a bit further about the Envy design vs.  say Cayin HA-300.   



> The second is the use of a solid-state rectification design to keep the output tight and punchy avoiding the more traditional tube rectification ‘sag’ or flabby low-end. This is something the Envy does exceedingly well, (more detail in sound impressions on page 2).



I've heard  with 300B it's a preferable design to have a tube rectification to retain the pure character of the 300B tubes.  Not trying to debate but more trying to learn about the design choices on this unit vs. other alternate options.  If you use SS rectification would this perhaps do a better job of driving Sus/HE6/1266 Phi TC bass control/slam but perhaps give up some of the mid range characteristic of the 300B.  Obviously with any design choice there are puts and takes just trying to understand both sides here with the rectification choices.


----------



## marcusd

rmsanger said:


> One point I'd like to discuss a bit further about the Envy design vs.  say Cayin HA-300.
> 
> 
> 
> I've heard  with 300B it's a preferable design to have a tube rectification to retain the pure character of the 300B tubes.  Not trying to debate but more trying to learn about the design choices on this unit vs. other alternate options.  If you use SS rectification would this perhaps do a better job of driving Sus/HE6/1266 Phi TC bass control/slam but perhaps give up some of the mid range characteristic of the 300B.  Obviously with any design choice there are puts and takes just trying to understand both sides here with the rectification choices.



I intend to find out in a few weeks time


----------



## Marutks

rmsanger said:


> I've heard  with 300B it's a preferable design to have a tube rectification to retain the pure character of the 300B tubes.



Perhaps it should be OTL as well?


----------



## ThanatosVI

Marutks said:


> Perhaps it should be OTL as well?


An OTL Design does not provide enough power for the likes of the Susvara and the Envy had been designed to be also a prrfect fit for hard to drive planars.


----------



## rmsanger

ThanatosVI said:


> An OTL Design does not provide enough power for the likes of the Susvara and the Envy had been designed to be also a prrfect fit for hard to drive planars.



This is why I asked about Cayin HA-300.. There is also Modwright 300,  Woo WA5 LE, A&S Agartha rv 2 300b are all similarly competent with planars.   Just wondering if you go the SS rectification route if you gain bass performance at the expense of the 300B character.   Tastes and preferences will obviously be different but would be good to know what the tradeoff  are.


----------



## ThanatosVI

rmsanger said:


> This is why I asked about Cayin HA-300.. There is also Modwright 300,  Woo WA5 LE, A&S Agartha rv 2 300b are all similarly competent with planars.   Just wondering if you go the SS rectification route if you gain bass performance at the expense of the 300B character.   Tastes and preferences will obviously be different but would be good to know what the tradeoff  are.


This is probably not uniformly answered as there are good and Bad rectification Implementations of both solid state and tube rectification methods. 
Probably also depends on the tube type used for the rectification.


----------



## turbofeet

marcusd said:


> Our review of the new Envy is up! The headroom is good with the Susvara, the impedance switches have some real purpose here with planars best set to the 'hi' impedance setting. It also looks beautiful with those Fullmusic H300b tubes, no denying that.
> 
> https://headfonics.com/feliks-audio-envy-review/


Nice.

Did you manage to test with the Bartok and Meze Elites or Empyreans?


----------



## marcusd

turbofeet said:


> Nice.
> 
> Did you manage to test with the Bartok and Meze Elites or Empyreans?



Well for the Bartok we did a section on that as a paired DAC (Ring DAC). You can find that on page 2.

Elite and Empyrean sounded great with zero issues on load and tons of current headroom. Elite for me gelled well with the Envy's strong sub-bass response. However, Empyrean mids did exceptionally well with the Envy's sweetish overtones so both will be fine.

As ever, your DAC will have an influence on the exact final output.


----------



## turbofeet

marcusd said:


> Well for the Bartok we did a section on that as a paired DAC (Ring DAC). You can find that on page 2.
> 
> Elite and Empyrean sounded great with zero issues on load and tons of current headroom. Elite for me gelled well with the Envy's strong sub-bass response. However, Empyrean mids did exceptionally well with the Envy's sweetish overtones so both will be fine.
> 
> As ever, your DAC will have an influence on the exact final output.


Thanks.


----------



## nwavesailor (Mar 19, 2022)

I am close to ordering the Envy.
I am not a big wire guy so I am hesitant to pay an upcharge of $700 for single crystal copper vs the 'premium copper' internal wire that is standard. Yes, there is also the Full Music 300B tubes upgrade in that $700 cost as well.
I don't have bat ears and I'm having a hard time believing that I could hear the difference in any 'premium' copper wire.
My thought is using $700 towards a better pair of 300B.

I already have quite a few pairs of very good 6SN7.


----------



## Deleeh

According to the test report, you can assume that the sound signature is neutral with the stock tubes.
In the end, you will suffer and the headphones, even if you have several, will have a minimum of one that can't handle it.
I can imagine that planar headphones may suffer somewhat.
That was the case with the Euforia, even if you shouldn't compare it.

Remember the Elise has copper cables 
and is slightly warmer than the Euforia in performance.
If you like that, stick with it and really buy a set of better 300b tubes.

The Euforia has this cable at extra cost and is a little colder in performance but more accurate and detailed.

Otherwise, if you are unsure, ask Feliks directly, I think they can answer it better than we can at the moment.


----------



## nwavesailor

Deleeh said:


> Remember the Elise has copper cables
> and is slightly warmer than the Euforia in performance.
> If you like that, stick with it and really buy a set of better 300b tubes.


Both options use copper wire.
I have a message in to Feliks asking for more detail regarding the 'premium' copper wire used in the Envy.
I have to believe that a good 300B would be $$$ better spent than a few feet of internal copper wire.


----------



## krude

From my experience with tubes a) you don't buy a tube amp for absolute detail and b) tubes are highly subjective and can pair with speciffic headphones and not with others. More expensive doesn't always equal better in this case.


----------



## nwavesailor

Yes, there can always be a mismatch in a particular hp / tubes and more $$$ does not always = better sound!. I've been fairly happy with tubes from the humble Vali 2, Garage 1217 amp, Liquid Platinum, Pendant and now a Bigger Ben. I don't need any more detail than what I have in the BB but have not heard a 300B hp amp.


----------



## Deleeh

If you have never heard one before, then the standard version will probably not be wrong to get a feel for it.
If you say you have a pair of 6sn7 sets, they might be able to do something.

But if the tubes could be deselected, which would have a noticeable effect on the price, then I would do it.
Then I would go to the Ofc cable and look for 300B tubes myself.

With the Euforia amplifier, you can or could buy it without tubes back then.
For me personally it was a bad investment.

If you know the Ps vane and didn't like them you can save them.they will be similar on Envy probably.
I would look at the Electro Harmonix to see if there are any test reports for it.
The Full Music have a bad reputation with the 6SN7 in terms of the failure rate.
But they have a great sound.
I would also look for test reports on the 300B to see if it is better or similar.
I'm sure you can find something with the Google engine.

If you are still looking for a 300b, take a look at the Linlai, which doesn't seem to be wrong.
As well as the Western Electric and what the Nos market has to offer.


----------



## nwavesailor

Deleeh said:


> If you have never heard one before, then the standard version will probably not be wrong to get a feel for it.
> If you say you have a pair of 6sn7 sets, they might be able to do something.
> 
> But if the tubes could be deselected, which would have a noticeable effect on the price, then I would do it.
> Then I would go to the Ofc cable and look for 300B tubes myself.


I see 2 options on the Feliks Audio site




I am not sure what denotes 'premium copper wire' in the Standard Edition but surely it is at least OFC quality these days. 

Yes, the Premium Edition uses UPOCC single crystal copper wire.

IMO I am paying for R & D, a great circuit and a really nice chassis and the wire is secondary.
 I'll do my research and find a better pair of 300B than the EH Gold that come stock.


----------



## normie610

nwavesailor said:


> I see 2 options on the Feliks Audio site
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Get the new WE300B. They sound fantastic. Alternatively, the Linlai Elite is also good.


----------



## nwavesailor

normie610 said:


> Get the new WE300B. They sound fantastic. Alternatively, the Linlai Elite is also good.


Thanks for that report @normie610 

I saw that @LarsMan was also a fan of the new issue WE300B


----------



## lumdicks

normie610 said:


> Get the new WE300B. They sound fantastic. Alternatively, the Linlai Elite is also good.


I echo that the new WE300B is sounding at least on par with the vintage 80s.


----------



## dadracer2

nwavesailor said:


> I see 2 options on the Feliks Audio site
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm surprised that silver wire is not an option since that is the preferred wire by companies such as Audio Note on their TOTL amps.


----------



## Deleeh

I don't think it will sound too cool, you can't do that with the price tag.
Might be a bit too much of a good thing with point to point wiring.
I see potential to change that though if you change the capacitors. 
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/-c-61_68_451.html

would be exchanged.

If you read the description you can guess where it goes:
The Jantzen Audio Superior Z-cap range of metallized polypropylene offer a reasonably priced upgrade for signal and cross-over applications. Specifically designed for audio, these gems provide a superb sonic performance, good detailing and soundstaging with a natural tone. They are made if polypropylene film metalized with aluminium and zinc particles.

I think this comes out cheaper in the end, without wanting to spoil the business.
But there are better ones that retain the basic tone and offer more punch.
But I don't want to judge too quickly, because I haven't heard it.
It could also be that it hits the tone very well and that everything is there that needs to be there.
But it's always good to keep something like that in mind.
It can really be cheaper to replace them than to hunt for tubes.


----------



## arthurito

Looking for a headphone amp for Susvara that’s also a preamp to go into an AHB2 for speakers. Any thoughts on this versus the WA33, or other options? Sources are Holo May and a Icon Audio PS3 MK2 David Shaw edition. Thanks!


----------



## dadracer2

I can't say anything about the Woo, but it is pricey. On the other hand is somewhat more flexible as a preamp and it is fully balanced. The Feliks I haven't heard but I have heard many of their other models and they are very nicely built and are really good value for money. If you have a chance to hear them then I think that would be the best thing you could do.


----------



## rex4539

arthurito said:


> Looking for a headphone amp for Susvara that’s also a preamp to go into an AHB2 for speakers. Any thoughts on this versus the WA33, or other options? Sources are Holo May and a Icon Audio PS3 MK2 David Shaw edition. Thanks!


The AHB2 is a perfect amp to drive the Susvaras, no?


----------



## arthurito

rex4539 said:


> The AHB2 is a perfect amp to drive the Susvaras, no?


Yes, but inconvenient since I have speakers as well


----------



## arthurito

dadracer2 said:


> I can't say anything about the Woo, but it is pricey. On the other hand is somewhat more flexible as a preamp and it is fully balanced. The Feliks I haven't heard but I have heard many of their other models and they are very nicely built and are really good value for money. If you have a chance to hear them then I think that would be the best thing you could do.


thanks but unfortunately I have no chance to try


----------



## nwavesailor (Mar 23, 2022)

nwavesailor said:


> Both options use copper wire.
> I have a message in to Feliks asking for more detail regarding the 'premium' copper wire used in the Envy.
> I have to believe that a good 300B would be $$$ better spent than a few feet of internal copper wire.


Envy Standard edition 'premium copper wire' is OFC with teflon insulation. I opted for the Standard version and will likely snag a pair of the WE300B.
My ETA is now closer to May and not a week or two.


----------



## moosemp

New enthusiastic review by Fidelio….


----------



## nwavesailor

moosemp said:


> New enthusiastic review by Fidelio….


Link?


----------



## turbofeet

https://musicalhead.de/2022/03/21/test-feliks-audio-envy-2/


----------



## nwavesailor (Mar 24, 2022)

Thanks @moosemp
I'm feeling pretty good about my purchase after 2 positive reviews.

The 9.4 review score (yes, it is one reviewer's opinion) from Headphonics is the highest I have ever seen on their amp reviews. The only other 9.4 score was dCS Bartok.


----------



## moosemp

@nwavesailor you are most welcome.
there is english translation on Feliks Audio fb page. 
I ordered ENVY without a hint of doubt it will be TOTL amp. I am happy owner of Euforia 20 anniversary and I can say it plays in a league of AYON HA 3, although in completely different manner. Both are class of their own. Perfect with Empyrean or ZMF Verite. Envy is supposed to partner with Abyss 1266, I am curious how it will perform together.


----------



## nwavesailor (Mar 23, 2022)

I am not a big FB user so I did a google translation. I'm sure it will pair well with the T+A , P and LCD-5 and hope it is a good pairing with the Sus. The Envy will be my first 300B amp.


----------



## Renexx

moosemp said:


> @nwavesailor you are most welcome.
> there is english translation on Feliks Audio fb page.
> I ordered ENVY without a hint of doubt it will be TOTL amp. I am happy owner of Euforia 20 anniversary and I can say it plays in a league of AYON HA 3, although in completely different manner. Both are class of their own. Perfect with Empyrean or ZMF Verite. Envy is supposed to partner with Abyss 1266, I am curious how it will perform together.



Please share your impressions and comparison to the Euphoria. I'm especially interested how the Envy will pair with the Vérité.

I'm not sure if it makes sense to replace the Euphoria by the Envy to drive my ZMFs.


----------



## moosemp

Renexx said:


> Please share your impressions and comparison to the Euphoria. I'm especially interested how the Envy will pair with the Vérité.
> 
> I'm not sure if it makes sense to replace the Euphoria by the Envy to drive my ZMFs.


My Envy is supposed to be delivered in April- sooooo much waiting!!!!! When I will have both amps and warm up Envy I will make comparison. Euphoria and envy are completely different amps (except for preamp section) so listening impressions will certainly be different. Euphoria never disappointed me, so it will stay in a collection, it was really good with Empyrean, ZMF VO and VC, \Utopia too.  But for Abyss 1266 there was no sufficient drive. I do not have Susvara to compare. But to be honest I enjoyed this amp very much indeed.


----------



## nwavesailor

moosemp said:


> My Envy is supposed to be delivered in April- sooooo much waiting!!!!! When I will have both amps and warm up Envy I will make comparison.


I'm surprised that you have a April delivery date located in Poland!  I suppose late April / early May isn't that bad for me.


----------



## NoTimeFor

Does does anyone notice the RCA binding posts on pic 12/12 on the feliks website are not set evenly? Like 4th picture shows the posts screwed more aligned.


----------



## nwavesailor (Mar 29, 2022)

In photo 12/12 the faces on the locking nuts are not aligned as in other pictures. Yeah, the other photos may look nicer but the locking nuts are to solidly seat the RCA. They could easily be rotated to look even like the others in this photoshoot.


----------



## NoTimeFor

nwavesailor said:


> In photo 12/12 the faces on the locking nuts are not aligned as in other pictures. Yeah, the other photos may look nicer but the locking nuts are to solidly seat the RCA. They could easily be rotated to look even like the others in this photoshoot.


I am thinking about ordering one, but I'd be disappointed if a high priced amp like this comes with miss aligned binding posts like shown in the photo.


----------



## nwavesailor (Mar 30, 2022)

The binding posts themselves are fine and not misaligned, it is just the nuts. These 6 nuts need to be tight to keep the RCA's in place. I worked in commercial photography and we would ofter rotate an item for a nicer looking photo. If you really care about the appearance you could easily loosen or tighten the nuts (or ask your dealer to do so) to align the six sides of the nuts any way you like.

 If the alignment of 6 nuts is annoying and a deal breaker then perhaps you may want to consider another amp.


----------



## nwavesailor

The Envy will be my first amp using 300B's. I currently use a ampsandsound Bigger Ben with GEC KT88's and it sounds spectacular with the LCD-5, T+A, P and yes, even the Susvara. 

It should be interesting comparing these 2 amps.


----------



## paradoxper

moosemp said:


> @nwavesailor you are most welcome.
> there is english translation on Feliks Audio fb page.
> I ordered ENVY without a hint of doubt it will be TOTL amp. I am happy owner of Euforia 20 anniversary and I can say it plays in a league of AYON HA 3, although in completely different manner. Both are class of their own. Perfect with Empyrean or ZMF Verite. Envy is supposed to partner with Abyss 1266, I am curious how it will perform together.


Look forward to 1266 thoughts. 300B makes this an interesting offering.


----------



## nwavesailor

Thanks for pointing to the 1266 thread and 300B's!


----------



## arthurito

Those can be easily aligned, most likely the photo was taken of a production sample, not a final product. They seem to be quite busy responding to the demands and orders so this small oversight can be excused in my opinion.


----------



## moosemp

Imho this is not a problem at all. I just switched from Riviera amp to FELIKS Audio Euforia 2o ANNIVERSARY  and again I am amazed how this little amp performs and how meticuolusly is built. I listen to electronic music with delight. ZMF VERITE OPEN do their job well. The more I can’t wait for ENVY


----------



## nwavesailor (Apr 4, 2022)

Sure would like to hear what @Ultrainferno thinks of his Envy. (if Ultrainferno is Marcus then I have read the Headfonics review, thanks!)
It's been a few months and there must be several Envy's out in the wild.
I have one pre ordered but would love an update!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Marcus = Headfonics
Ultrainferno = Lieven = Headfonia
Envy review is planned for publication on April 10


----------



## Ultrainferno

Here's a bit of Envy in the meantime


----------



## nwavesailor (Apr 4, 2022)

OK, I see why I may have been confused with the similar name! Looking forward to the new review on Headfonia.

I am very happy I ordered the walnut option with the Marathon watch included!


----------



## nwavesailor (Apr 10, 2022)

for the new Envy review


----------



## ColSaulTigh

I'm starting to make my plans for my next step up from my Woo Audio WA6-SE Gen 2's, and I was kicking around a WA5 until I came across this.

Yes, it's a bit pricy, but it's a beautiful work of art as well as a functional amplifier.  I'm very curious to hear some thoughts and hopefully some comparisons to the Woo lineup.


----------



## nwavesailor

Hopefully we should have a few more Envy's in the wild soon. Upscale is planning to have the Envy at Axpona based on if it arrives in time.


----------



## Magol79

I have posted my impressions of the Envy from the Stockholm High End Show here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/highend-mässan-stockholm-2022.962930/


----------



## krude

Magol79 said:


> I have posted my impressions of the Envy from the Stockholm High End Show here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/highend-mässan-stockholm-2022.962930/


Did they have Susvara to demo on Envy? It is slightly worrying that they used 2 easy to drive sets to demo presumably a powerful amp that should have plenty of headroom for 1266 TC and Susvara.


----------



## Magol79

krude said:


> Did they have Susvara to demo on Envy? It is slightly worrying that they used 2 easy to drive sets to demo presumably a powerful amp that should have plenty of headroom for 1266 TC and Susvara.


No Susvara or Abyss. Empyrean, Elite and D8KPro were available.


----------



## krude

Magol79 said:


> No Susvara or Abyss. Empyrean, Elite and D8KPro were available.


Hmmm guess Ill have to demo one myself to see how it performs with heavy loads.


----------



## nwavesailor (Apr 12, 2022)

Headfonia review is up!

It is a very favorable review and I'm looking forward to getting my Envy.




The treble has me a little confused with 'clean, energetic, nicely extended and sparking _yet slightly soft_?'

I would like detail, energy, extended and sparkling.  I'm not sure about slightly soft but the Envy may have the best of all these, time will tell! The review is also with the stock tubes and I need to take that into account regarding what other tubes may bring to the Envy.


----------



## Ultrainferno

nwavesailor said:


> Headfonia review is up!



Correct!

In our first article of the week we (finally) take a very comprehensive look at the Envy on Headfonia. Sorry for the delay in publication. The good news is that we have given it our Recommended Buy award!  

https://www.headfonia.com/feliks-audio-envy-review/


----------



## arthurito

Thanks for the great review! Would it be possible to also test its preamp capabilities for driving a power amp and speakers? It seems every review is limited to headphones, even though this could be exactly the missing puzzle piece for people wanting a tube preamp that doubles down as headphone amp.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Thank you. Well, we are a headphone website, so this is not part of our regular testing


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y (Apr 12, 2022)

nwavesailor said:


> Headfonia review is up!



Alps Rk27 potentiometer ....


----------



## Marutks

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> Alps Rk27 potentiometer ....



haha,  7K eur amp and no stepped attenuator


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Marutks said:


> haha,  7K eur amp and no stepped attenuator


Forgive my (probably) ignorant question - but wouldn't you want a no-step attenuator for more precise volume control?  I'm new to the Summit-Fi world, but my thinking is that stepped limits your controllability a bit.  Can anyone explain what the benefit is, please?

Thanks!
Fred


----------



## nwavesailor

I have had several amps with stepped attenuators and found I often wanted to be between steps. I’m sure with more steps this would be less of an issue.


----------



## arthurito

I’ve also heard a few scoffs at alps potentiometers, I’m curious what’s the technical explanation in regards to it’s inferiority versus stepped attenuators?


----------



## MHLC

I don't think having a stepped attenuator is deal breaker... It's nice to have but I rather have the money go towards better internal than a stepped attenuator.


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y (Apr 12, 2022)

Don't care what type it is. But its a 25$ part as volume pot on a 7K amp.
Its like saying: Envy has the same volume pot as Schiit's $199 Magnius.

There are better options: TKD, Elma, DACT, Kozmo, Glasshouse, AN etc. The review says: "_Other customisations are possible". _
So its extra.


----------



## nwavesailor

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> Don't care what type it is. But its a 25$ part as volume pot on a 7K amp.
> Its like saying: Envy has the same volume pot as Schiit's $199 Magnius.
> 
> There are better options: TKD, Elma, DACT, Kozmo, Glasshouse, AN etc. The review says: "_Other customisations are possible". _
> So its extra.


That's a fair point! I worked for an audio company for a number of years and we used Alps, TKD and DACT pots depending on the product.


----------



## paradoxper

Ultrainferno said:


> Correct!
> 
> In our first article of the week we (finally) take a very comprehensive look at the Envy on Headfonia. Sorry for the delay in publication. The good news is that we have given it our Recommended Buy award!
> 
> https://www.headfonia.com/feliks-audio-envy-review/


Very nice review. The temptation is ever-growing now.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> Don't care what type it is. But its a 25$ part as volume pot on a 7K amp.
> Its like saying: Envy has the same volume pot as Schiit's $199 Magnius.
> 
> There are better options: TKD, Elma, DACT, Kozmo, Glasshouse, AN etc. The review says: "_Other customisations are possible". _
> So its extra.


Sorry to ask again, but is the issue that the volume knob being used is a known flawed/defective part, or is your objection purely on the fact that it's an inexpensive part?


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y (Apr 12, 2022)

You missed the second line. There are better part options in relation to asking price . So it's OK if tubes will be JJs?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> You missed the second line. There are better options for its retail price . So it's OK if tubes are JJs?


No, I read your post - I was just trying to figure out if there was something inherently bad with the specific knob they're using (like, is it known to break/fail a lot), or is it simply because it's an inexpensive part in an otherwise expensive amplifier.  In other words, is there something wrong with using it other than its low cost?


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y (Apr 12, 2022)

There are options with better SQ. Like tubes. Why EH if GL is only 30$ difference for a 7K amp.
And its not just a knob that you switch on or off. Its your volume pot.


----------



## SlothRock

Just coming to say I absolutely love my Euforia AE and the quality is pristine. The volume knob is fantastic and gives me plenty of control over where I want it to be. I have no doubt the Envy is an incredible amp - stepped attenuator or not.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> There are options with better SQ. Like tubes. Why EH if GL is only 30$ difference for a 7K amp.
> And its not just a knob that you switch on or off. Its your volume pot.


Thank you - that's what I was trying to understand.


----------



## krude (Apr 13, 2022)

ColSaulTigh said:


> Thank you - that's what I was trying to understand.


For context in this price segment companies can even invest in their own RND to produce the best solutions for crucial elements like volume (see Accuphase etc). Im no expert but volume circuit seems to be crucial for SQ, that's why people usually look closely at what is used and can it be taken out from the signal path completely (often refered to as power amp mode, so you can use your dac or preamp of choice to control the volume).

Also for context Burson uses Muses volume in their Soloist line, including the GT, which afaik is a relatively cheap solution, however even soloist GT is 1/3 of the price of Envy. On the flipside Burson claims that they did not provide the power amp mode for the GT because from their measurements their volume has no negative SQ effect. Then again I would take it with a pinch of salt bc they make some other interesting claims ...

TLDR in a 7k amp I would expect top shelf components.

Also for context does anyone know what Woo uses in WA33? Which is the main competitor in this segment I think.


----------



## paradoxper (Apr 13, 2022)

krude said:


> For context in this price segment companies can even invest in their own RND to produce the best solutions for crucial elements like volume (see Accuphase etc). Im no expert but volume circuit seems to be crucial for SQ, that's why people usually look closely at what is used and can it be taken out from the signal path completely (often refered to as power amp mode, so you can use your dac or preamp of choice to control the volume).
> 
> Also for context Burson uses Muses volume in their Soloist line, including the GT, which afaik is a relatively cheap solution, however even soloist GT is 1/3 of the price of Envy. On the flipside Burson claims that they did not provide the power amp mode for the GT because from their measurements their volume has no negative SQ effect. Then again I would take it with a pinch of salt bc they make some other interesting claims ...
> 
> ...


They're likely fine. They should have given the option for an upgraded stepped attenuator as superior continuous options are far and few, however, it's also highly likely maintaining a straight forward supply chain has taken precedent.

The WA33 employs the TKD 4-channel potentiometer as a stock option. The RK50 as the very best continuous as their upgrade as all should.


----------



## Marutks

I have got Goldpoint stepped attenuator in my (much cheaper) Blue Halo amp.  
+  It has enough steps. 
+  Perfect channel balance at any level.
+  They claim improved SQ _"Goldpoint stepped attenuators may cost more, but  our customers rave about them and typically state their investment was well worth it, knowing they have attained the best sound quality they can get." _
+  Mischa recommends to use stepped attenuator.


----------



## moosemp

It will be interesting and busy Easter hollidays


----------



## moosemp

From initial listening nothing can be said, I will need some 4 weeks for decent and honest comparison with Riviera


----------



## Ultrainferno

moosemp said:


> It will be interesting and busy Easter hollidays


Enjoy!


----------



## nwavesailor

moosemp said:


> From initial listening nothing can be said, I will need some 4 weeks for decent and honest comparison with Riviera


I appreciate you wanting to give the Envy some time before an honest A/B with the Riviera. You may be one of the first mere mortals, that is not a reviewer, to receive your amp. 
At the risk of twisting your arm, any first impressions you could share knowing that this may change with time?


----------



## moosemp

nwavesailor said:


> I appreciate you wanting to give the Envy some time before an honest A/B with the Riviera. You may be one of the first mere mortals, that is not a reviewer, to receive your amp.
> At the risk of twisting your arm, any first impressions you could share knowing that this may change with time?


I must consider some factors first: 
a. headphones to use for comparison- Focal Utopia and Abyss 1266TC being totally different technically, 
b. cables: I have to check my inventory, which is limited, 
c. source components- ML 512 CD player and digital files from computer to Dave, analog sources much later
d. limited time, as I am not a reviever at all and have a lot of things to do during Easter, especially encounters with my Family
So please be patient. Hovever I will certainly write about initial thoughts on Monday evening GMT.
These impressions will be limited to my system and will nothing to do with "absolute" value of both amps and will only be my humble opinion.

I wish you all paceful and calm Easter!


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

Happy Easter!


----------



## moosemp

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> Happy Easter!


Thanks.
After couple of hours with FELIKS Audio ENVY I can clearly say that comparing it with Riviera is like comparing apples and oranges. Different principle of operation matters but both amps perform at highest level and have unlimited possibilities of tweaking of tailoring their sound. So it is only matter of taste, also estethically, which one to choose. I decided to order ENVY once I have heard it was going to be made and waited 5 months to receive it. I talked by phone with very professional and kind people from Feliks Audio and owing their EUPHORIA 20 Anniversary OTL amp I was sure TOTL amp will be good. But I did not expected it will be that good. At The moment I can not show any weak point. No problem with driving Abyss 1266tc to concert like levels and still there is a lot of headroom. With Utopia even the soundstage  is very good, not mentioning detail retrieval.THERE IS NO TUBEY SOUND, just pure music, you do not have to think whether it is all tube, hybrid or transistor amp, you just listen. But it will not be a problem to apply some other driver or power tubes to receive what you need in this respect. Listening to music I do not analyse bass, mids or treble, or 3D soudstage or whatever else. All is coherent. At The highest level. It is made in Poland, what makes me proud of it but it is not a bias for me when listening and analysing its performance.
Now I only wish I had more time to listen and peace of mind needed for objective review of new amp.


----------



## nwavesailor (Apr 18, 2022)

NICE!

It's so good to hear your thoughts, owing a Euphoria 20th as well as the Riviera amp, and these first impressions from an Envy owner and not a reviewer.

Could I ask what makes the Rivieara and Envy 'Apples and Oranges'?
I have not heard either amp (I have a KT-88 based ampandsound Bigger Ben) nor any 300B based amp for that matter.


----------



## Herbie151

Hi to everyone. I am contemplating buying an Envy. I have had an excellent OPPO HA-1 for many years. Fully balanced, 4 pin XLR, full CLASS A power supply, and I have had alot of pleasure from it.

I am curious.

What advantage would a tube amplifier (also in full CLASS A) have over and above a solid state class A like my Oppo please?

What I am really asking is - "What's all the fuss about?"

Thanks!


----------



## decur

moosemp said:


> Thanks.
> After couple of hours with FELIKS Audio ENVY I can clearly say that comparing it with Riviera is like comparing apples and oranges. Different principle of operation matters but both amps perform at highest level and have unlimited possibilities of tweaking of tailoring their sound. So it is only matter of taste, also estethically, which one to choose. I decided to order ENVY once I have heard it was going to be made and waited 5 months to receive it. I talked by phone with very professional and kind people from Feliks Audio and owing their EUPHORIA 20 Anniversary OTL amp I was sure TOTL amp will be good. But I did not expected it will be that good. At The moment I can not show any weak point. No problem with driving Abyss 1266tc to concert like levels and still there is a lot of headroom. With Utopia even the soundstage  is very good, not mentioning detail retrieval.THERE IS NO TUBEY SOUND, just pure music, you do not have to think whether it is all tube, hybrid or transistor amp, you just listen. But it will not be a problem to apply some other driver or power tubes to receive what you need in this respect. Listening to music I do not analyse bass, mids or treble, or 3D soudstage or whatever else. All is coherent. At The highest level. It is made in Poland, what makes me proud of it but it is not a bias for me when listening and analysing its performance.
> Now I only wish I had more time to listen and peace of mind needed for objective review of new amp.


I am curious to what the apples & orange’s difference’s between riviera & envy?
i have the riviera aic-10 and and really enjoy it, especially with abyss ab1266tc,verite closed,and my zmf atrium’s i just recieved.


----------



## moosemp

Hello!
In my old vocabulary of English  comparing apples and oranges means comparing uncomparable things. That is what I mean.
These are completely different amps as far as their building concept is concerned-  all tube ENVY and hybrid Riviera.  
None of them have typically tubey sound- which (simplyfying things) would mean sweet, rounded vocals, soft treble, not deep and fast bass etc.  These are very modern pieces of art seemingly without any flaws I would notice. And one can tailor the sound just changing tubes until you have what you were looking for.
 Question is- when you have great sport car which you are proud of why do you need another one!?  Because it is beautiful object of engineering and if you only can afford- you go for it.
 I used Envy with Abyss 1266TC and Utopia, my everyday headphones. I also have ZMF VO and VC, Meze Empyrean- waiting for their turn. 
Answering Herbie151- you owe to yourself to give Envy a listen, with decent system, the best would be in your place, and answer what the fuss is about.
And it will take time since Riviera and Envy can chang sonund with different tubes, and it would be great to try couple of them. 
I lived happily with Riviera/ JJ 802 tube untill I joined Riviera thread and started to roll tubes. I discovered full potential of this amp only 2 months ago . Tubes rolling is not going to end despite having reached completely satisfactory results. Just for curiosity!


----------



## decur

thanks moosemp,
I am going to axpona this weekend, and hopefully the us distributer upscale audio will have the envy there to demo.
yes, as far as tube rolling the riviera. I find the nos rca clear top from "tube depot" to be a great choice with my ab1266tc and both verity closed & atrium.
I hope you get the chance to hear the atrium, in my opinion, it betters the vc.


----------



## nwavesailor (Apr 22, 2022)

The Envy will indeed be at Axpona with Upscale Audio!

Can't wait for the show coverage and thoughts from those that attend.


----------



## nwavesailor

Anyone hear the Envy at Axpona?


----------



## moosemp (Apr 24, 2022)

Would be nice to hear. I listened my ENVY few hours and today I WILL CONTINUE. THIS IS FANTASTIC AMP. I listen to files from hd now sent from cheap laptop to Dave and I am more and more amazed. I do hope I can improve a lot.
Every hour is new discovery. Different music different emotions. This evening I will take pop and heavy metal although this is not very much my cup of tea.  The most striking feature of ENVY is its ability co show dimensions of the recording venue, its volume, height and width. Every voice or instrument is showed in precise position, sharp, not blurred. I have never heard it in such convincing way. ECM productions either live or recorded in studio sound palpably real, symphonic music has its scale and powerful presence of instruments that can also be ethereal when needed. Voices are magically reproduced in space, single artists or choir, does not matter. I listen over and over.


----------



## Newsee

moosemp said:


> Would be nice to hear. I listened my ENVY few hours and today I WILL CONTINUE. THIS IS FANTASTIC AMP. I listen to files from hd now sent from cheap laptop to Dave and I am more and more amazed. I do hope I can improve a lot.
> Every hour is new discovery. Different music different emotions. This evening I will take pop and heavy metal although this is not very much my cup of tea.  The most striking feature of ENVY is its ability co show dimensions of the recording venue, its volume, height and width. Every voice or instrument is showed in precise position, sharp, not blurred. I have never heard it in such convincing way. ECM productions either live or recorded in studio sound palpably real, symphonic music has its scale and powerful presence of instruments that can also be ethereal when needed. Voices are magically reproduced in space, single artists or choir, does not matter. I listen over and over.


Which headphones did you use with the Envy that triggered these emotional lines?


----------



## moosemp

Abyss 1266 TC, Utopia less emotional but technicalle very good.


----------



## HiFiRobot

Pic from a recent audioshow. Feliks Envy and Meze Elite. Sourced by Rockna DAC and a Hifi Rose RS150 streamer I think.

I only listened shortly and to me it was a little bright sounding, but might as well been the music which was played.


----------



## ThanatosVI

HiFiRobot said:


> Pic from a recent audioshow. Feliks Envy and Meze Elite. Sourced by Rockna DAC and a Hifi Rose RS150 streamer I think.
> 
> I only listened shortly and to me it was a little bright sounding, but might as well been the music which was played.


Amazing setup


----------



## moosemp

I will try Meze Empyrean this week. With Utopia nad Abbyss this amp does not sound bright to me.


----------



## LoryWiv

HiFiRobot said:


> Pic from a recent audioshow. Feliks Envy and Meze Elite. Sourced by Rockna DAC and a Hifi Rose RS150 streamer I think.
> 
> I only listened shortly and to me it was a little bright sounding, but might as well been the music which was played.


That amp. is gorgeous, functional art!


----------



## paradoxper

HiFiRobot said:


> Pic from a recent audioshow. Feliks Envy and Meze Elite. Sourced by Rockna DAC and a Hifi Rose RS150 streamer I think.
> 
> I only listened shortly and to me it was a little bright sounding, but might as well been the music which was played.


That wood is fantastic. Need better tubes though.


----------



## moosemp

what tubes would you suggest?


----------



## paradoxper (Apr 28, 2022)

moosemp said:


> what tubes would you suggest?


For the 6SN7 avoid current production. There are a few exceptions. Ken-Rad VT-231 is a balanced start. I'm a MELZ 1578 perforated fanatic.
For 300B, pick your proven FOTM as they have a substantial performance gap. e.g. WE300B, Tak300B, EML300B. The ACME are really nice for the mid-price.

Unfortunately you will find the 300B game is expensive and more unreliable than desired.

IMO you should just go for the WE300B, they are the proven replica for good reason.


----------



## barbz127

Don't forget the Sophia electric 300b's. Ive heard an envy locally a couple of times and it's a good jump over the stock upgraded options.

To me it seemed like there was oodles of gain on the envy so if I was buying one I'd be looking into compatible 6sn7 options which had a lower mu/gain to get some more travel out of the dial with sensitive headphones and also help with noise on medium and high Impedance with sensitive headphones.


----------



## moosemp

these are important remarks, thanks.
I have Full Music 300BSE tubes included with amp and Psvane 6SL7 standard tubes.  I need to get used to them before I start tubes rolling. It will take some time. As you certainly noticed I am very satisfied with sound now and I will roll tubes for curiosity rather than necessity. But if sound will improve I will go on of course.
I can try 300B of Elrog and Psvane, also Sophia Electric in house,  thanks to kindness of friends, but not untill I get to know my amp as it is delivered.
I can easily buy Ken-Rad SL7 GT,VT-229 and RCA 6SL7GT for affordable price in Poland, measuring well- do you think it is good for start?
​


----------



## ThanatosVI

moosemp said:


> these are important remarks, thanks.
> I have Full Music 300BSE tubes included with amp and Psvane 6SL7 standard tubes.  I need to get used to them before I start tubes rolling. It will take some time. As you certainly noticed I am very satisfied with sound now and I will roll tubes for curiosity rather than necessity. But if sound will improve I will go on of course.
> I can try 300B of Elrog and Psvane, also Sophia Electric in house,  thanks to kindness of friends, but not untill I get to know my amp as it is delivered.
> I can easily buy Ken-Rad SL7 GT,VT-229 and RCA 6SL7GT for affordable price in Poland, measuring well- do you think it is good for start?
> ​


Would be nice if you share your impressions of the Sophia Electric and Elrog tubes after you tried them


----------



## moosemp

I certainly will, I guess not earlier than in June.
I tried Sophia Electric 12au7 in my Riviera amp but it did not fit my taste and expectations, especially when compared to vinage tubes. It is different story, I will definitely try 300B


----------



## Deleeh

Don't forget the Linlai, the Elite version is available as 300b as well as for 6SN7.
Especially for the Mundorf capacitor socket, the Linlai do a very good job.
I have had the Linlai Elite 6sn7 in the Euforia with the installed Mundorf and they are for now reliable tubes without failure.
And the sound of the tubes is warm and musical but still quite smooth, making the Ps Vane look old in comparison.
Unfortunately I can't say anything about the 300b, but I suspect similar if not better.

But I think especially in the 6Sn7 range there are great possibilities to exploit.


----------



## Renexx (Apr 28, 2022)

paradoxper said:


> Unfortunately you will find the 300B game is expensive and more unreliable than desired.


This sounds conserning to me. NOS 300b tubes doesn't seem to be arround anymore.



paradoxper said:


> WE300B, Tak300B, EML300B


Are these your recommendations and worth the high price tag?


----------



## paradoxper (Apr 28, 2022)

Renexx said:


> This sounds conserning to me. NOS 300b tubes doesn't seem to be arround anymore.
> 
> 
> Are these your recommendations and worth the high price tag?


If you search the forums through the years, you'll see each favored had production woes of failure. Western Electric is as reliable as it gets.
The value to high price is a sliding scale: you can score EML for lower prices which increase their ROE (risk of entry), however, you just aren't getting pushback that either WE or Takasuki aren't the best or amongst the top echelon. That is for you to decide after doing the thorough research -- you can likewise judge the Elrog 300B/MO.
I'm ok with Tak/WE/Elrog $1500 entry. I wouldn't pay double for the poor return. I wouldn't pay double at all if I can employ alternative 300B such as 2A3.

But can you put a price on extracted enjoyment.

Tube exploitation: Finding Nirvana or Nervosa.


----------



## nwavesailor

moosemp said:


> I certainly will, I guess not earlier than in June.


I don't have your patience or discipline to wait to roll tubes once I have the Envy! 
If it is the amp for me with the stock tubes, and I decide to keep it, I have quite a few 6SN7, 6F8 and dual 6J5,  (w/ adapters) and then snag a pair of current production WE300B.


----------



## inthere

paradoxper said:


> If you search the forums through the years, you'll see each favored had production woes of failure. Western Electric is as reliable as it gets.
> The value to high price is a sliding scale: you can score EML for lower prices which increase their ROE (risk of entry), however, you just aren't getting pushback that either WE or Takasuki aren't the best or amongst the top echelon. That is for you to decide after doing the thorough research -- you can likewise judge the Elrog 300B/MO.
> I'm ok with Tak/WE/Elrog $1500 entry. I wouldn't pay double for the poor return. I wouldn't pay double at all if I can employ alternative 300B such as 2A3.
> 
> ...


Here they are:


----------



## nwavesailor

Has anyone, other than @moosemp, received their Envy amp?


----------



## arthurito

nwavesailor said:


> Has anyone, other than @moosemp, received their Envy amp?


Still waiting!


----------



## moosemp

arthurito said:


> Still waiting!


Ehhhhh…. Today listening with Full Music 300BSE , tomorrow WE from current production. Just warming up no premature judgements


----------



## nwavesailor

moosemp said:


> Ehhhhh…. Today listening with Full Music 300BSE , tomorrow WE from current production. Just warming up no premature judgements


Very cool! Glad we won’t need to wait til June to see how the WE behave in your Envy.

 I’m sure the WE,  Tak and EML are all good options in place of the stock FM. 

Quite a few HeadFi members I trust have me leaning towards buying the WE.


----------



## dubharmonic

Last weekend at AXPONA I was able to demo the Envy with a Susvara. There was plenty of power and authority! Very impressive bass control.


----------



## moosemp

Hello Gentlemen,
before I go on I would like to ask you how much time weekly do you spend listening with headphones? Being 62 I am still working intensively and all I can do is some 12 to maximum 14 hours with headphones on every week, usually even less. I try to be objective and reliable if my humble opinion is going to be of certain relevance to others. That is why I can not speed up with my writing. I try to do my best🎶👍.
 At my age hearing ability is usually linited, my upper frequency I easily hear is 12kHz, and some 50Hz down. So my perception of certain frequencies may signifficantly differ from younger listeners. And their judgement of my opinions may be based on different physiological determinants. But listening to music for many years I think I gained some experience in this, being able to  make my own point of view.
  This being said let’s go to the point.
I started to listen to brand new ENVY with Full Music 300b SE, and was surprised how good this  amp performed right off the box. After couple of hours I could say I was delighted with sound. Previously I listened to quiet a few 300b amps based systems with speakers, including my own Klipshorns and WE 15a and 16a replicas, Hedlund horns, Altec and others. I do like big sound with realistic dimensions and dynamic capabilities. And now I switched to headphones…..Ehhhh… but in was necessary since I do not have enough space now for big system. My apetite for good sound with HPs and 300b amp was great and it was satisfied right after few hours of listening with ENVY. I listened from ML 512 cd player and computer files , Dave and CARDAS cables.  I decided not to go to lp’s and tape at the moment.
  I started from Till Bronner &Dieter llg cd Nightfall. I used Utopia hps , gain low on amp. With Utopia you do not need more gain, absolutely not. The album is mixed with instruments close together in small space although there is a lot of reveberations reaching deep and wide as Utopia allows .Sound of bass was full bodied, not going down very low but completely satisfactory. Bass strings were clear and energetic, with good symbiosis with instrument body. Ilg trumpet and flugelhorn was a bit dimmed but overall tonality of the album was also on darker side.
  Then came SLEEPER from Jarrett,Garbarek,Danielsson and Christiansen. What a fantastic live rocording! Vivid, tons of energy delivered by every player so easily, joy of playing was complete and spontaneus In every piece, composed by Jarrett. Bliss to listen to this performance mikes close together, but each player clearly separated, precisely put in venue dimensions. Stage not too wide,not too deep but when public aplause starts you can hear dimensions of the hall. Than you could hear how the hall was filed up with people .It was hard to stop spinning this cd. Garbarek blows his instrument like crazy, as it would be no tomorrow, but others are on par. I had perception as if the soundstage came closer with volume up. So I guess one needs to set volume to his own preferences. But soundstage is even then not overwhelming, except for Keith plays feally loud complex passages. It is recorded straightforward but not just directly to your face. Kwas completely stirred, agitated, crushed with the sheer power of this performance. intimate velvet covered moments of silence, when 1-2 instruments play, with echoes of hall easily discernabe, clearly audible tape hiss does not disturb me. Recording was made in 1976, mixed in 2012, maybe that is why Jarrett’s piani is sometimes too close, also bass notes are not very revealing, with domination of body sound over strings, I guess it was recorded this way and is not system fault, just the opposite, system reproduces recording well. In short- you owe it to yourself to give a listen to this cd or file.
 Then came Jennifer Warnes -Famous blue raincoat. This is what gold covered cd is all about. A lot of older cd listeners know what I mean. But still there is some overall mess in recording, clearly elevated upper mids, especially on 1st track, which kind of blindfolds her voice. Next tracks are better, but there is dominance of technicalities over lyricism of Cohen’s songs. Completely revealing Utopia cooperate brillantly with ENVY, amp dres not loose any detail. To the contrary- presents every small vibrations in a way evoking goosebumps, just listen to title song, which you did bilion times before, also in Cohen’s own presentation. I also could not stop and played it over and over. One day I will dig for my lp copy and there will be a show. Jennifer had powerful voice that could also be intimate when she wanted to,my setup showed it in spades.
 I did not switch to ABBYSS 1266TC too often and my remarks above are mainly created with UTOPIA, but later on I listened mainly to ABBYSS. 
  I CHANGED TUBES ONLY YESTERDAY EVENIG, BUT IN SHORT- DESPITE FULL MUSIC BEING FANTASTIC WE SEEMS TO BE A CLEAR WINNER. 
We have national holliday tomorrow so I am off duty and listen so much as it gets.


----------



## barbz127

moosemp said:


> my remarks above are mainly created with UTOPIA,



Thankyou for sharing

What is the background noise like with the Utopia with the envy on medium and high gain?

Thank you


----------



## nwavesailor

Thanks for your impressions @moosemp! 
I was glad to see that the WE were a step up from the FM 300B. 
Did you stay with the stock Psvane CV-181 or try any other 6SN7 at this point?


----------



## moosemp

barbz127 said:


> Thankyou for sharing
> 
> What is the background noise like with the Utopia with the envy on medium and high gain?
> 
> Thank you


Honestly I did not hear any noise when in low gain. Even listening on very high levels potentiometer was somewhere between 9 and 10 o clock, never reaching 11. That is why I did not try other gain settings. It was not necessary IMHO.
   I liked emotions evoked with Utopia very much. I will try MEZE Empyrean and ZMF later but I guess result might be similar. Most emotional till now for me was pairing Empyrean with AYON HA3, but technically it was not as good. I must come back to this set for a while.


----------



## moosemp

nwavesailor said:


> Thanks for your impressions @moosemp!
> I was glad to see that the WE were a step up from the FM 300B.
> Did you stay with the stock Psvane CV-181 or try any other 6SN7 at this point?


It is a pleasure to share my thoughts with you.

I will try other 6sn7 certainly when I will become more familiar with Psvane, there is nothing to complain at this moment. I have nice pair of GE JAN 6sn7G and give it a chance


----------



## barbz127

moosemp said:


> Honestly I did not hear any noise when in low gain. Even listening on very high levels potentiometer was somewhere between 9 and 10 o clock, never reaching 11. That is why I did not try other gain settings. It was not necessary IMHO.
> I liked emotions evoked with Utopia very much. I will try MEZE Empyrean and ZMF later but I guess result might be similar. Most emotional till now for me was pairing Empyrean with AYON HA3, but technically it was not as good. I must come back to this set for a while.


Thankyou

Gain was the wrong word there from my end sorry. Those are impedance switchs which changes the Impedance a bit.

Curious to know if it was just unit I heard or if they all have a bit of noise with high Impedance headphones (focal/ZmF) on medium and high Impedance settings.

Thankyou


----------



## moosemp

Particular meaning of „gain” in ENVY was described in one of its tests also
 known in this thread. I do not want to go intro details because I do not feel competent... Today I just tried ZMF Verite open. All you need is low gain. No noise up to 12 o’clock position.it is way more that need. Traveling Miles by Cassandra Wilson sounds brillant, I liked it even better than with Abyss 1266 Tc. Although RIVIERA with ABYSS is here my no.1 (Riviera with RCA clear top….).INDEED when you go to mid gain there is some noise in both channels.  For me it does not matter since I do not use it😎


----------



## Marutks

Does Envy have gain switch?


----------



## paradoxper

moosemp said:


> It is a pleasure to share my thoughts with you.
> 
> I will try other 6sn7 certainly when I will become more familiar with Psvane, there is nothing to complain at this moment. I have nice pair of GE JAN 6sn7G and give it a chance


You're cooking with the WE300B now. I bet the Psvane make a nice complement but will definitely scale finer with the JAN. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.


----------



## flea22

Would love to see some internal photos of this amp. Thinking of end of year purchase.


----------



## moosemp

Yesterday - evening with American classics-
   Ella& Louis from Japanese SACD, said to be the best edition ever, really great, but I liked it more with Riviera- G73-r made magic. It is one of reasons I will continue to swap tubes, also 6SN7. But there was nothing to complain. Vocals were closer but not face to face, wherease on Riviera were placed further away, closer to instruments that were relatively far. Tone was neutral, not warmed (Riviera) , Louis trumpet sometimes too harsh- as recorded. Ella's vocal was just brillant. Wall of sound despite mono recording.
  Then my beloved concert of Four Freshmen with Stan Kenton and orchestra. I know it very well and always complained becouse of some "distortion" in upper register with loud passages. This time it was less pronounced, more pleasant overal impression, with tons of details in voices and instruments. Top precision in location of performers, verv deep and wide scene, just pure joy. I do recommend to give a listen to this great album


----------



## Deleeh

flea22 said:


> Would love to see some internal photos of this amp. Thinking of end of year purchase.


Hello Flea22,
Do you mean pictures of the amplifier inside?


----------



## flea22

Deleeh said:


> Hello Flea22,
> Do you mean pictures of the amplifier inside?


Yes. Sorry


----------



## turbofeet

Anyone tried these Tubes with the Envy? 

They look like there might be some 6SN7's in there!


----------



## nwavesailor

I received an updated ETA of mid June for my Envy to North America. 
Does anyone, other than @moosemp and a few reviewers, have an Envy?


----------



## paradoxper

nwavesailor said:


> I received an updated ETA of mid June for my Envy to North America.
> Does anyone, other than @moosemp and a few reviewers, have an Envy?


I canceled my order now that I'm satisfied. Need to offload gears now.


----------



## moosemp

Feliks Audio is exhibiting their products in Munich high end show now. I will visit them on Saturday. Thursday and Friday are for industry ONLY. Some pictures and opinions on fb. I haven’t listened ENVY for a week being very busy, so no info…


----------



## Arcamera

This amp looks great. A bit down the road for me, perhaps...


----------



## Toonartist

Well, after initial plans to buy the Eudora AE I’ve placed an order for an Oak Envy. Just waiting for confirmation of expected delivery date. It’s for a standard version and they said it’s likely to be around 5 weeks or so. Can’t wait 😊


----------



## turbofeet

Toonartist said:


> Well, after initial plans to buy the Eudora AE I’ve placed an order for an Oak Envy. Just waiting for confirmation of expected delivery date. It’s for a standard version and they said it’s likely to be around 5 weeks or so. Can’t wait 😊


Good to hear. Let us know what it's like with the Elites.
I have this amp earmarked for an end of year purchase as £5800 is a bit of a stretch. I doubt many have that kind of cash just lying around.
I'll audition it first. It'll have to knock my socks off. 👌


----------



## Toonartist (May 23, 2022)

Yeah, I wouldn’t normally… just thinned out a 2 channel system that wasn’t being used which meant I could go for it. And, I received a bit of discount as well... which is always nice.


----------



## Newsee

Beautiful. Not only the look. It made the Munnich show worth the visit.


----------



## Toonartist

Dam it looks good... I have a feeling it's going to feel like a long wait!


----------



## moosemp

Just came back from Munich- very delighted. In FELIKS AUDIO room I talked to very friendly and knowledgeable people, who know how to do their job well.There was possibility to compare Abyss with Susvara directly and I definitely prefered ABYSS in this short session. For more detailed evaluation I will ask distributor of susvara to try it at home to give it full justice.I do not want to draw conclusions too quickly.
Visitors were able to try also other headphones, A bit limited playlist from ROSE digital players. No crowds so a lot of convenience. Very well made presentation.
MANY THANKS to all The staff from Feliks Audio!


----------



## Newsee (May 26, 2022)

This Munich Show...
In the main hall it was absolutely useless to try any open back headphone. The Feliks room was much better. Due to the open door there were still a certain amunt of background noise present, but apart from judging the really fine details it was good enough for a first impression.

 In the room there were three amps on display in twilight: Euforia, Euforia AE, Envy. Available headphones: 1266 TC, Diana, Susvara, Empyrean, Elite. Unfortunately the connected player/dac  had a limited amount of music to choose from.  There was a small queue, all wanted to try the Envy. The friendly crew turned out to be three Feliks brothers - I became so excited that I forgot to ask most of my questions.

Once it was my turn, I tried the already connected Susvara shortly. My impression has not changed - it is so airy that the bass went missing in the air. The Diana still does not want to align to my ears, and I do not want to fit the TC to my ears. Therefore the next was the Elite. Ethereal. Airy like the Susvara, but with bass. To speed up the things (there were still people waiting) and have some reference environment I connected the Empy, and my own DAP, the Hiby R8 line out with my own playlists.




OMG! The bass is deep like cellar, the midbass hump is so controlled that it almost disappears, the highs and details... Ok, they were always enough for me on the Empy, but could hear here that it is another dimension.
Definitely much more control in the bass region than my McIntosh MHA200. It would be a nice upgrde.
The volume knob is comfortable to handle, I would prefer a bit more resistance though.
The woodwork looks even better in live than on the pictures. What an experience!


----------



## SlothRock

Man, the Envy has to be up in the very top of tube amps for looks alone. Owning the Euforia, I'm sure it also backs it up by sounding overwhelmingly amazing on top of it. They picked a great name for it


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

Well(ranting again )...
Woo Audio has just released its new 2A3 amp called WA23 with Alps RK50 potentiometer at an early bird price of 8K.......just sayin'
And they say its OK for a Blue Velvet on a $7K amp. Important is It sounds "beautiful"...


----------



## helljudgement

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> And they say its OK for a Blue Velvet on a $7K amp. Important is It sounds "beautiful"...


While I don't particularly care for expensive potentiometer like rk50 I do agree the pot can be more premium especially at this price. Maybe something like TKD or DACT shouldn't be too much to ask for at this price range. Then again I have no issues with Blue Velvet on my Studio B and should have no impact on sound if implemented well but this is 7k we are talking about so I would have preferred a more premium pot.


----------



## moosemp

Despite cheap potentiometer amp is fantastic, period!


----------



## JTbbb

I know there probably isn’t much experience using these in the Envy as yet, but has anyone used the Takatsuki TA-300B? Searching around the web they seem to be highly regarded, and used examples are available.


----------



## lumdicks

JTbbb said:


> I know there probably isn’t much experience using these in the Envy as yet, but has anyone used the Takatsuki TA-300B? Searching around the web they seem to be highly regarded, and used examples are available.


I am using TA300B in my Fostex HP-V8 and it is best in class. The airy mid and high suppresses others including both vintage and reprinted WE300B, with amazingly holographic presentation.


----------



## moosemp

JTbbb said:


> I know there probably isn’t much experience using these in the Envy as yet, but has anyone used the Takatsuki TA-300B? Searching around the web they seem to be highly regarded, and used examples are available.


TA 300B is on my waiting list as well, now warming up WE 300b from current production.


----------



## paradoxper (May 31, 2022)

JTbbb said:


> I know there probably isn’t much experience using these in the Envy as yet, but has anyone used the Takatsuki TA-300B? Searching around the web they seem to be highly regarded, and used examples are available.


They're a great option. Second to WE300B as they retain more midrange magic and better spatial presence.

It would depend on what you think your listening preference is: the EML 300B another tier option, leaning far more into the solid state lean and clean for more of a clinic.
These would be my top recommendations with advisement of don't cheap out -- Gold Lion, Sophia, TJ are all downfalls.
Lastly avoid Elrog. Their failure rate is astonishing.

There is also a new player whom Decware is backing although they don't manufacture the tube, they promise their cryotreatment an improvement.
They are under the Wathen brand. While only providing a limited 1-year warranty, they do guarantee your money-back satisfaction.


----------



## JTbbb

paradoxper said:


> They're a great option. Second to WE300B as they retain more midrange magic and better spatial presence.
> 
> It would depend on what you think your listening preference is: the EML 300B another tier option, leaning far more into the solid state lean and clean for more of a clinic.
> These would be my top recommendations with advisement of don't cheap out -- Gold Lion, Sophia, TJ are all downfalls.
> ...


Thanks very much for those insights. Much appreciated.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

paradoxper said:


> They're a great option. Second to WE300B as they retain more midrange magic and better spatial presence.
> 
> It would depend on what you think your listening preference is: the EML 300B another tier option, leaning far more into the solid state lean and clean for more of a clinic.
> These would be my top recommendations with advisement of don't cheap out -- Gold Lion, Sophia, TJ are all downfalls.
> ...


Did you ever decide to order the Walthen tubes and be our sacrificial guinea pig?


----------



## paradoxper

ColSaulTigh said:


> Did you ever decide to order the Walthen tubes and be our sacrificial guinea pig?


My plan was to finish rolling thru headphones. ES-R10 and CA-1a perhaps also Diana Closed. Then I'll grab those tubes before calling it.


----------



## JTbbb

turbofeet said:


> Good to hear. Let us know what it's like with the Elites.
> I have this amp earmarked for an end of year purchase as £5800 is a bit of a stretch. I doubt many have that kind of cash just lying around.
> I'll audition it first. It'll have to knock my socks off. 👌


It can be had for £4899 basic version without tubes.


----------



## Toonartist

For the basic, with tubes, you can get it for around £5200. Just depends on who your dealer is. Probably can get it for even less! Get in touch with them to discuss options and don’t just press, “buy” online.


----------



## nwavesailor

I found no wiggle room for pricing in the US. I asked fully expecting at least a modest 10% off retail.


----------



## HichamV

What is the difference is sound signature between the two sets of tubes that they offer? Are the Full Music just better or does it depend on what kind of sound you like?


----------



## arthurito

Hey Folks, Envy arrived today, amazing packaging, tubes survived, works like magic, though I assume needs some running in


----------



## Toonartist (Jun 10, 2022)

Beautiful… enjoy 👍🏻 I’ll still have a few weeks to wait for mine. Are you using the power cord that came with it? I might build a Furutech one and burn it it before the envy arrives. How’s it sounding from new?

Edit. Meant to ask, how long did you have to wait in the end?


----------



## Newsee

HichamV said:


> What is the difference is sound signature between the two sets of tubes that they offer? Are the Full Music just better or does it depend on what kind of sound you like?


Lukasz Feliks wrote me when I was inquiring about the tubes and the Performance version: "There is a significant improvement in quality of sound in Performance version, and big part of it are the 300B FUll Music tubes - they are really worth the upgrade from EH Gold."
On the Munich show all three Envys that I saw and listened to were fitted with FM tubes.


----------



## arthurito

Toonartist said:


> Beautiful… enjoy 👍🏻 I’ll still have a few weeks to wait for mine. Are you using the power cord that came with it? I might build a Furutech one and burn it it before the envy arrives. How’s it sounding from new?
> 
> Edit. Meant to ask, how long did you have to wait in the end?


I ordered on 25th of March, so quite a long wait. I'm using Isotek Evo Sigmas power conditioner and Isotek EVO Premier power plugs. It sounds amazing already, but I feel it will improve with time.


----------



## SenyorC

The name of this amp (and thread) is very fitting. I am in love with this amp!


----------



## Toonartist

arthurito said:


> I ordered on 25th of March, so quite a long wait. I'm using Isotek Evo Sigmas power conditioner and Isotek EVO Premier power plugs. It sounds amazing already, but I feel it will improve with time.


Thanks. Means I’ve probably got another 4 weeks or so. I ordered the standard version with the idea I’ll pick up a pair of Western Electric 300b’s or something similar after running in on the standard tubes. I think it might be worthwhile getting the power cable now and burn it in beforehand. Something to distract me from the waiting 😂 Cheers


----------



## JTbbb

Ordered yesterday without tubes, the sale of some 5998’s/421A’s has allowed these to be ready and waiting! Have got plenty of 6sn7’s


----------



## nwavesailor

Toonartist said:


> Thanks. Means I’ve probably got another 4 weeks or so. I ordered the standard version with the idea I’ll pick up a pair of Western Electric 300b’s or something similar after running in on the standard tubes. I think it might be worthwhile getting the power cable now and burn it in beforehand. Something to distract me from the waiting 😂 Cheers


I also ordered the standard version knowing I'd end up with WE 300B if the Envy sounds as good as the reviewers and a few owners have reported.


----------



## Toonartist

nwavesailor said:


> I also ordered the standard version knowing I'd end up with WE 300B if the Envy sounds as good as the reviewers and a few owners have reported.



From what I've read, the ELECTRO-HARMONIX 300B Gold Grid 300b tubes that come as standard are good, just not the best (obviously). Like yourself, I want to hear it as is and then move on up. The new Western Electric 300B are my ideal but if the standard sound really good, then I may add an intermediary level first. Something like the Psvane Black Treasure, Silver Bottle (Mk2) or the newer Psvane 300b Acme. I guess as time goes on and more people receive their Feliks Envy there will be more feedback on how it performs with different tubes.

Talking of tubes, any recommendations for retailers in the UK for 300b tubes?


----------



## nwavesailor

I'm sure the Tak are great as well as the EML and some from China. I would like to buy the WE based on reviews of many members I trust as well as these being made here in the US and with a 5 year warranty, 

I will be comparing the Envy with my current Bigger Ben and will keep the winner!


----------



## Toonartist

Well, ordered the parts for a new power cable. I have the same connectors with a Nanotec Power Strada #309 cable on the Naim Atom HE at the moment. I'm expecting the new cable will go on the Atom HE and use the existing one on the Envy but I'll see which works best. The NCF plugs take quite a while to burn in and during that their tonal qualities can swing drastically. I really don't want to be going through that process when first listening to the Envy.

Furutech FP-S032N
Furutech FI-1363 NCF Rhodium (UK Plug)
Furutech FI-50 NCF Rhodium


----------



## 21qz

arthurito said:


> Hey Folks, Envy arrived today, amazing packaging, tubes survived, works like magic, though I assume needs some running in


What HP are you running with it?


----------



## arthurito

21qz said:


> What HP are you running with it?


Susvara😍 but also as a preamp into AHB2 and Joseph Audio Pulsar 2 speakers, it’s magical


----------



## nwavesailor

My order was placed March 21st. I suppose shipping air is a bit too costly but it is a $8K amp.
I'm sure these will land in the US at some point.


----------



## ZzZzZzZ

Resolve and DMS checking out Feliks Envy at Munich high end event.


----------



## 21qz

Nice


----------



## nwavesailor (Jun 18, 2022)

I'd like to have heard Resolve go OFF on the sound. He did seem to like it..............just not enough go nuts!!!!!

Feliks Audio at CanJam Chicago?


----------



## adrianm

Has anyone heart both the Envy and Oor+ Hypsos or Burson Gt? I'm curious how they compare.


----------



## dadracer2

There is a comparison between the Envy and a couple of other amps including the Oor here https://headfonics.com/feliks-audio-envy-review/3/


----------



## incredulousity (Jun 30, 2022)

My name is Mike... and I am an ampaholic...

Pulled the trigger. Replacing two amps (Euforia AE and HA-2SF) with it. Economical, right?!

4-6 weeks will feel like a very long wait.

And anyone who knows me from the Euforia thread will know where this will inevitably go!


----------



## SlothRock

Let us know how it is!! I’m ENVYous lol


----------



## incredulousity

I just got tired of having Envy Envy.


----------



## Toonartist

incredulousity said:


> My name is Mike... and I am an ampaholic...
> 
> Pulled the trigger. Replacing two amps (Euforia AE and HA-2SF) with it. Economical, right?!
> 
> ...


Congrats... What options did you go for? I went with oak and standard so I can pick my own pair of upgrade 300b tubes. 

Hoping mine will arrive soon... ordered on the 23rd May. Feels like waiting for Christmas when I was a kid


----------



## nwavesailor

I thought my Envy would be here this week since it was in US Customs a while ago. I ordered standard (buying other 300B) in walnut and only Premium units arrived. 
I am looking at 4 more weeks.


----------



## Toonartist

nwavesailor said:


> I thought my Envy would be here this week since it was in US Customs a while ago. I ordered standard (buying other 300B) in walnut and only Premium units arrived.
> I am looking at 4 more weeks.



I've just heard back from my dealer and he said says they're waiting on parts to complete the Envy's Currently in build. He was told 12-14 days so sort of hoping I won't be too much longer.

Have they given a reason why yours is stuck in customs?


----------



## nwavesailor (Jul 1, 2022)

I ordered the basic model and they recieved Premium units in this shipment. Mine is supposed to be in route and I'm sure I will receive it at some point.


----------



## incredulousity

Toonartist said:


> Congrats... What options did you go for? I went with oak and standard so I can pick my own pair of upgrade 300b tubes.
> 
> Hoping mine will arrive soon... ordered on the 23rd May. Feels like waiting for Christmas when I was a kid


Oak and Performance. I'll flip the stock tubes if necessary. I'll probably sell the new PSVane tubes with Euforia AE and keep my lightly used ones. I wonder how KT88 with adapters work on Envy as drivers...


----------



## Toonartist

In terms of tubes, I have my eye on the Audio Note 300b and maybe Goldon Lion as a daily driver/general listening. I’ve seen a few good reviews for the Audio Note and seem to be easily accessible. But, before any of that I’ll wait to hear it as is.


----------



## ThanatosVI

incredulousity said:


> Oak and Performance. I'll flip the stock tubes if necessary. I'll probably sell the new PSVane tubes with Euforia AE and keep my lightly used ones. I wonder how KT88 with adapters work on Envy as drivers...


If you go ahead with thst keep us updated. 

Also maybe contact them first if it's save to change the drivers to KT88 with adapters


----------



## incredulousity (Jul 1, 2022)

ThanatosVI said:


> If you go ahead with thst keep us updated.
> 
> Also maybe contact them first if it's save to change the drivers to KT88 with adapters


Everyone does it with Euforia/Elise with no problem as replacement for PSVane. I’m not worried, but just like Euforia, they will say no.

I do know that some of the things I use as powers only, like TS 5998 will have to be sold, as they can’t be used as drivers in Euforia.


----------



## ThanatosVI

incredulousity said:


> Everyone does it with Euforia/Elise with no problem as replacement for PSVane. I’m not worried, but just like Euforia, they will say no.
> 
> I do know that some of the things I use as powers only, like TS 5998 will have to be sold, as they can’t be used as drivers in Euforia.


Well just because it works in the Euforia doesn't mean it will work in the Envy without damaging it.

However if you try it and it does work, please let us know


----------



## incredulousity

This is true, of course, but probably both amps are designed to run the same driver tubes within same or close parameters, and I would expect to be able to do on Envy what I can do with Euforia. 

The unpredictable difference of course is what if any effect the output of adapted drivers has when fed to the 300b tube circuit.


----------



## helljudgement

incredulousity said:


> Everyone does it with Euforia/Elise with no problem as replacement for PSVane. I’m not worried, but just like Euforia, they will say no.


I wouldn't do something that even the manufacturers are advising against. Worst case scenario you may end up damaging the transformer which is a real bummer.


----------



## TDinCali

Anyone receive their unit and can provide some feedback? We're dying over here....


----------



## nwavesailor

I thought mine would be delivered to me last week but the distributor said they received the premium version and I ordered the standard.
 Mine is supposed to be in route so we'll see........


----------



## Newsee

TDinCali said:


> Anyone receive their unit and can provide some feedback? We're dying over here....


Dying for additional impressions, dying of waiting or dying of Envy 😉?


----------



## arthurito

TDinCali said:


> Anyone receive their unit and can provide some feedback? We're dying over here....


Yes, it’s simply wonderful, I don’t have previous experience with 300B nor SET, just EL34 with PushPull, and transistor of course. But the envy does something magical that’s hard to explain!


----------



## Toonartist

A week ago I was told they were waiting on parts to complete their current amps being built. I was told they expected the parts in 12-14 days. Hopefully that means I may only be a week or so away from receiving the delivery notification... I hope!


----------



## JTbbb

Ordered 9th June. New expected delivery early August.


----------



## tawmizzzz

Looking forward to more impressions! Im considering an Envy to pair with my Susvara and LCD5. 

I haven’t tried 1266TC yet but if anyone has insights as to whether Envy is also a good pairing for it, please share .


----------



## incredulousity

As another data point:

I ordred an Envy from Upscale Audio last week. They quoted me 4-6 weeks delivery, possibly a bit longer or sooner. They updated me early this week, stating that they expect to be able to fulfill my order in 2 weeks or a little more.

Fingers crossed. It will be a long 2 (4,6,8,+) weeks!


----------



## nwavesailor

I'm sure at  some point I will have an Envy. Ordered 3/21


----------



## ThanatosVI

nwavesailor said:


> I'm sure at  some point I will have an Envy. Ordered 3/21


Big oof


----------



## Toonartist

I hope that's right as it may mean a few more of us will receive ours soon.

I was quoted 5-9 weeks when I ordered it on the 23rd May. I'm just over 6 weeks now and 9 weeks would be the 25th July. I keep checking my email with that slight hope there'll be an email from my dealer saying it's on it's way.... one day, one day it will happen!


----------



## SlothRock

Rooting for y’all to get your amps soon! Very excited to see more impressions.


----------



## 1Audiophool

SlothRock said:


> Rooting for y’all to get your amps soon! Very excited to see more impressions.


Ditto! 
This is on my shortlist to pair with Susvara. Really, it’s down to this, Wa33 or Ferrum stack…ATM…of course. Well, I guess I forgot there’s Enleum too….uggh. Really just want them all 😆


----------



## SlothRock

1Audiophool said:


> Ditto!
> This is on my shortlist to pair with Susvara. Really, it’s down to this, Wa33 or Ferrum stack…ATM…of course. Well, I guess I forgot there’s Enleum too….uggh. Really just want them all 😆


I can vouch for the Ferrum stack and Susvara. Absolutely wonderful combo. Fast, precise, tons of micro details and a very robust and deep bass response. It pairs very very well


----------



## HichamV

Anyone here can compare the Feliks Envy with Enleum? Is the Envy a level above or is it more a taste preference? 
I was going to choose between Envy and Auris Nirvana, but my dealer cannot get the Nirvana and propesed the Enleum as a good option.


----------



## rex4539

HichamV said:


> Anyone here can compare the Feliks Envy with Enleum? Is the Envy a level above or is it more a taste preference?
> I was going to choose between Envy and Auris Nirvana, but my dealer cannot get the Nirvana and propesed the Enleum as a good option.


At least it should be possible to listen to the Envy, as there are 4 dealers in Belgium


----------



## turbofeet

HichamV said:


> Anyone here can compare the Feliks Envy with Enleum? Is the Envy a level above or is it more a taste preference?
> I was going to choose between Envy and Auris Nirvana, but my dealer cannot get the Nirvana and propesed the Enleum as a good option.


Funny you should mention that I've seen a Nirvana on eBay locally and it looks good. Wouldn't have an opportunity to hear it before purchasing though.

Would love to know what that's like. 

I still have the Envy earmarked for the end of the year but distribution seems slow for many people so I may see how that plays out before purchasing anyway.


----------



## nwavesailor

Yeah, it’s been months and hopefully it will be worth the wait!


----------



## Toonartist

nwavesailor said:


> Yeah, it’s been months and hopefully it will be worth the wait!


Yeah, you have the record at the moment. I’m on the 8 week mark now. If I’m honest, I have a few concerns about how they’ve managed this launch and what would happen if it had a fault. I would be beyond upset if it took the same time to be repaired!


----------



## nwavesailor

I jumped on the ‘pre-order’ realistically thinking I would have the  Envy in weeks, not months.

Having worked for a small audio manufacturer, timetables always seem to get scrambled due to changes, optimism and now supply chain issues.

First world problem!!’


----------



## SlothRock

I heard they actually called it the Envy because the wait time makes you envious of everyone else who actually has an amp in their home while you wait 😂

Jokes aside I'm sure the wait will be worth it. My Euforia is an incredible amp. This thing is gonna be next level


----------



## jonathan c

SlothRock said:


> I heard they actually called it the Envy because the wait time makes you envious of everyone else who actually has an amp in their home while you wait 😂
> 
> Jokes aside I'm sure the wait will be worth it. My Euforia is an incredible amp. This thing is gonna be next level


Dead right!, the name Envy comes from the expected delivery: *N*ot *V*isible….🤔🤨🤣…


----------



## JTbbb

Toonartist said:


> Yeah, you have the record at the moment. I’m on the 8 week mark now. If I’m honest, I have a few concerns about how they’ve managed this launch and what would happen if it had a fault. I would be beyond upset if it took the same time to be repaired!


I wonder if standard configuration is quicker than the more bespoke?


----------



## nwavesailor

No

I ordered standard and then the premium arrived a couple of weeks ago pushing me back another 4.


----------



## Toonartist

JTbbb said:


> I wonder if standard configuration is quicker than the more bespoke?


I ordered the standard version as well… I dread to think how long it would take for something more complicated 😆


----------



## arthurito

It’s worth the waiting, relax, it’s the best thing you’ve ever heard! Seriously, it’s out of this world!


----------



## nwavesailor (Jul 14, 2022)

All my crying and my Envy is finally about to ship with notification of a FedEx label created!

It may be here Monday, fingers crossed....................


----------



## Toonartist

nwavesailor said:


> All my crying and my Envy is finally about to ship with notification of a FedEx label created!
> 
> It may be here Monday, fingers crossed....................


Excellent news. Since you've been waiting since March it's quite fitting that you're next on the delivery list!!

My dealer may have been right about waiting on parts to complete the builds in production. He said 12-14 days at the end of June.


----------



## Foxman50

HichamV said:


> Anyone here can compare the Feliks Envy with Enleum? Is the Envy a level above or is it more a taste preference?
> I was going to choose between Envy and Auris Nirvana, but my dealer cannot get the Nirvana and propesed the Enleum as a good option.


Ive compared Enleum and Envy with Susvara at my local dealer. Envy is the best amp ive heard the Susvara with.


----------



## SlothRock

Foxman50 said:


> Ive compared Enleum and Envy with Susvara at my local dealer. Envy is the best amp ive heard the Susvara with.



As someone who has the Ferrum OOR + Hypsos, Euforia AE, Susvara and VC, I did not need to hear this lol. Definitely interested in more reviews, could potentially consolidate amps but still not sure.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Did anyone ever receive an answer about the other wood options that don't have pictures on the website?


----------



## Newsee

ThanatosVI said:


> Did anyone ever receive an answer about the other wood options that don't have pictures on the website?


I think it is the other way round. You just name your wish, put the €400 extra, and wait a few weeks for delivery. 
Since the Munich show you cannot order any more directly from Feliks in Germany. You have to go through the headphonecompany.com . You can ask them about the custom wood, they do not have that option on their website.


----------



## Toonartist

@nwavesailor Any news on the delivery of your Envy? No news here.


----------



## nwavesailor

I find there is fantastic synergy between the Envy and Susvara after less than 30 minutes right out of the box! The T+A, P pairing was nice as well.

I may find a bit more detail with some 6SN7's I have and perhaps other 300B's. I chose the basic model with EH gold pin knowing I'd upgrade the 300B


----------



## nwavesailor

Toonartist said:


> @nwavesailor Any news on the delivery of your Envy? No news here.


It landed here yesterday and I just set it up tonight! 

Only flub so far on my part was keeping the impedence at HIGH after the Susvara and using the LCD-5. I was disappointed with the level of hum and then it hit me.......... DOAH!!!!!


----------



## Toonartist

Sounds very promising! Do you have a pair of Meze Elites to try with it?

I contacted my dealer about a week ago for an update. They said they'd contact the production team but I haven't heard anything back. Just passing the max wait time they gave. Feliks replied to an initial enquiry about times but then never replied when I confirmed it was for the Envy and who the order was through. No one seems to want to say anything or provide any feedback about completion times.


----------



## moosemp

I do not have Meze Elite, but with Empyrean match is fantastic after some warm up.


----------



## moosemp

nwavesailor said:


> I find there is fantastic synergy between the Envy and Susvara after less than 30 minutes right out of the box! The T+A, P pairing was nice as well.
> 
> I may find a bit more detail with some 6SN7's I have and perhaps other 300B's. I chose the basic model with EH gold pin knowing I'd upgrade the 300B


I am glad you are satisfied. It will grow a lot with time and WE tubes.. I need good 6SN7 to try with mine.
I spend a lot of time with ZMF VO and it sounds fantastic as well, tonally I like it more than Abyss, but bass is of course less prominent


----------



## ThanatosVI

Newsee said:


> I think it is the other way round. You just name your wish, put the €400 extra, and wait a few weeks for delivery.
> Since the Munich show you cannot order any more directly from Feliks in Germany. You have to go through the headphonecompany.com . You can ask them about the custom wood, they do not have that option on their website.


Yeah I wanted to know how the other options look like.

I inquired about this on Envys reveal but never got an answer.

Might be sad for some that you can't order directly from Feliks anymore,  but at least headphonecompany.com is a great dealer and my preferred source of audio gear anyways


----------



## Magol79

Toonartist said:


> Sounds very promising! Do you have a pair of Meze Elites to try with it?


I listened to the Elite with the Envy in a quiet room at the Stockholm High End Show in April. It sounded great on the Envy. Smooth, sweet, holographic, grip and control, black background. It was very impressive.


----------



## alekc

Magol79 said:


> I listened to the Elite with the Envy in a quiet room at the Stockholm High End Show in April. It sounded great on the Envy. Smooth, sweet, holographic, grip and control, black background. It was very impressive.


@Magol79 thank you for your description. Looking at your signature I'v noticed you are using Euforia. How different is that amp from Envy? Any common points? I'm interested mostly in black background and any hum issues, but also dynamics and soundstage size.


----------



## arthurito

Folks who have the Envy, if you quiet down the room and put your ear on the black top of the transformer housing, do you hear any hum?


----------



## Toonartist

Magol79 said:


> I listened to the Elite with the Envy in a quiet room at the Stockholm High End Show in April. It sounded great on the Envy. Smooth, sweet, holographic, grip and control, black background. It was very impressive.


Thanks... the black background is important for me, lack of hum and other noise issues but great to hear it also impresses in terms of soundstage!


----------



## Magol79

alekc said:


> @Magol79 thank you for your description. Looking at your signature I'v noticed you are using Euforia. How different is that amp from Envy? Any common points? I'm interested mostly in black background and any hum issues, but also dynamics and soundstage size.


I have not heard the same headphones on the Euforia, so it is not so easy for me to compare the two amps. The tone can be influenced very much by tube rolling the Euforia. 

But I did try both the Meze Elite and the Final Audio D8000pro on the Envy and consistent across both headphones was a sweet and smooth sound with good layering and detail level. No problem with hum or noise. I had the amp set to the low impedance mode. The amp was the Performance edition with the Full Music 300B tubes.


----------



## moosemp

arthurito said:


> Folks who have the Envy, if you quiet down the room and put your ear on the black top of the transformer housing, do you hear any hum?


no


----------



## MN8372

Looking forward to more impressions of this amp.  Particularly keen to hear how it performs as a preamp into solid state. 

My thinking is it would be nice to have the option of Envy on its own and Envy as a tube pre into my CFA3.


----------



## arthurito

I use it as preamp into AHB2 for solid state for driving speakers and I think it’s wonderful. I prefer the Envy to the Holo Serene as preamp, I find the listening experience more engaging and enjoyable, even though technically Serene is perfect. The Envy infuses some tube magic while being faster. It has huge power reserves, drives the power amp perfectly even with AHB2 set to the lowest gain setting. 
One thing to consider is that all outputs on Envy are active all the time, therefore when I listen to headphones I need to turn off (or mute) the AHB2.


----------



## nwavesailor (Jul 21, 2022)

I tried RCA, Raytheon and Sylvania 6SN7 tonight and they were all a step up from the stock tubes.
NU and TS 6F8G are up next and some new 300B in the next few weeks.

I am only 2-3 hours into the Envy and it will no doubt get better!


----------



## Toonartist

nwavesailor said:


> I tried RCA, Raytheon and Sylvania 6SN7 tonight and they were all a step up from the stock tubes.
> NU and TS 6F8G are up next and some new 300B in the next few weeks.
> 
> I am only 2-3 hours into the Envy and it will no doubt get better!


Excellent. Great to start hearing feedback from people with the amp and trying different tubes. With most of us waiting for the Envy at the moment it was starting to feel like a long queue or a waiting room with the front way off in the distance


----------



## incredulousity

No news yet re: my Envy. I ordered from Upscale Audio. Too bad, as Headphones.com is actually showing at least the performance version as in stock. Maybe Upscale will get theirs soon, as it seems that at least some have made it to the US west coast. 

Meanwhile, I'll enjoy the vicarious experiences of others here


----------



## moosemp

Toonartist said:


> Excellent. Great to start hearing feedback from people with the amp and trying different tubes. With most of us waiting for the Envy at the moment it was starting to feel like a long queue or a waiting room with the front way off in the distance


tubes rolling must take place after one becomes familiar with standard tubes. It takes time. Unless tubes tyou roll in are fully warmed up and have many hours of playing time behind


----------



## nwavesailor

moosemp said:


> tubes rolling must take place after one becomes familiar with standard tubes. It takes time. Unless tubes tyou roll in are fully warmed up and have many hours of playing time behind


I agree that this may be optima but I don't have the patience to wait! 
I tend to let the tube warm up for several minutes not hours, play a few songs and form an initial impression for that pair. if I like A compared to B I then settle on that pair for days or weeks. To be honest none of the 6SN7's sounded bad but I am only a few hours into the Envy and there will be some improvement as there are more hours on the amp.


----------



## JTbbb

moosemp said:


> tubes rolling must take place after one becomes familiar with standard tubes. It takes time. Unless tubes tyou roll in are fully warmed up and have many hours of playing time behind


I’ve ordered Envy minus tubes 😀


----------



## nwavesailor (Jul 21, 2022)

JTbbb said:


> I’ve ordered Envy minus tubes 😀


Great idea! 
I understand that Feliks uses tubes that are available that sound good and that cost IS an object. I think it's safe to say most people do roll tubes at some point.


----------



## Toonartist (Jul 21, 2022)

moosemp said:


> tubes rolling must take place after one becomes familiar with standard tubes. It takes time. Unless tubes tyou roll in are fully warmed up and have many hours of playing time behind


I'll be running in my Envy (once it arrives) with the tubes it comes with first... but, I still like to hear about other peoples experiences etc with different tubes for future reference 😀.

Once it has burned in I will look for tubes that are good but cheaper to be used as a daily runner while working etc and then a set for critical listening. This is why I'll be running in the ones that it comes with first, they could end up as my daily ones but it will prove to be a reference point. Or maybe the daily ones could be Genalex Gold Lion 300B (PX)


----------



## incredulousity (Jul 21, 2022)

The stock PSVane driver tubes took at least 150 hours to sound optimal on my Euforia AE. That said, I still prefer the GL KT88 or Kt66 as drivers on that amp.

I will initially test my Envy with my lightly used tubes. Then I will swap them to the new ones, as my prospective buyer for Euforia actually prefers the already burned in tubes, and who can blame him?!


----------



## LoryWiv

incredulousity said:


> The stock PSVane driver tubes took at least 150 hours to sound optimal on my Euforia AE. That said, I still prefer the GL KT88 or Kt66 as drivers on that amp.
> 
> I will initially test my Envy with my lightly used tubes. Then I will swap them to the new ones, as my prospective buyer for Euforia actually prefers the already burned in tubes, and who can blame him?!


Interesting that you used KT88 and KT66 as drivers...with what power tubes @incredulousity?


----------



## incredulousity (Jul 21, 2022)

LoryWiv said:


> Interesting that you used KT88 and KT66 as drivers...with what power tubes @incredulousity?


Current KT88 drivers and KT88/TS 5998 on splitters on each side for powers.

Recently swapped the KT88s back in on the power side, after playing a bit with KT150/TS 5998 combination, which gave mad bass, at the expense of a bit of the midrange sparkle.

Splitters, adapters, and extra heater current by @Deyan

Also, KT120s have no place on Euforia. Gross. 66, 77, 88 are all fun.


----------



## SlothRock

JTbbb said:


> I’ve ordered Envy minus tubes 😀


You can do this? I am not in the market for an Envy right now but it’d be great to order the premium with no tubes to save money and use that saved cash for Western Electric 300B’s and using the 6SN7’s I already have


----------



## incredulousity

SlothRock said:


> You can do this? I am not in the market for an Envy right now but it’d be great to order the premium with no tubes to save money and use that saved cash for Western Electric 300B’s and using the 6SN7’s I already have


They wouldn’t let me do this.


----------



## SlothRock

@JTbbb has got that special hook up I suppose!


----------



## ThanatosVI

incredulousity said:


> They wouldn’t let me do this.


About a year ago they even built custom amps if you inquired.

Now they try to streamline more and accept less individual wishes. From some regions they also only accept purchases via their distributors.

Guess those are the negative changes for the customer when a company becomes too successful.


----------



## JTbbb

SlothRock said:


> You can do this? I am not in the market for an Envy right now but it’d be great to order the premium with no tubes to save money and use that saved cash for Western Electric 300B’s and using the 6SN7’s I already have


That’s exactly what I am doing.


----------



## JTbbb

incredulousity said:


> They wouldn’t let me do this.


Hmmm, I emailed Lukasz asked if I could order basic without tubes, informed him who my dealer was…job done.


----------



## incredulousity

Though I plan to use the stock (performance) tubes for a while, I will of course want to roll the 300B tubes at some point. I already have sufficient 6SN7 options. So the question is, of the premium options, which to choose as the first (and only for a long time, I'm sure)? Tak or WE, or something else? I've read all the 300B threads already. Time to start planning!


----------



## JTbbb

incredulousity said:


> Though I plan to use the stock (performance) tubes for a while, I will of course want to roll the 300B tubes at some point. I already have sufficient 6SN7 options. So the question is, of the premium options, which to choose as the first (and only for a long time, I'm sure)? Tak or WE, or something else? I've read all the 300B threads already. Time to start planning!


With the sale of AE and all my pairs of 5998/421a, plus a couple of pairs of 6sn7’s. I now have Tak, WE and Elrog’s waiting in the wings.


----------



## nwavesailor

Nice quiver of 300B's!

I just ordered the Elrogs


----------



## Toonartist

Anyone tried the Audio Note 4300e 300b’s? I’ve seen a few positive reviews on them.


----------



## JTbbb

Toonartist said:


> Anyone tried the Audio Note 4300e 300b’s? I’ve seen a few positive reviews on them.


I think paradoxper has, he likes them. Must be over in the 300B thread.


----------



## Toonartist

JTbbb said:


> I think paradoxper has, he likes them. Must be over in the 300B thread.



Cheers, I’ll take a look!

I’m starting to think about what will be the first album to listen to when the Envy arrives 🤪 along with which single malt that will accompany it!


----------



## turbofeet

Toonartist said:


> Cheers, I’ll take a look!
> 
> I’m starting to think about what will be the first album to listen to when the Envy arrives 🤪 along with which single malt that will accompany it!


Hope you'll get it soon sir. 
I'm auditioning it Tuesday. Looking forward to trying it out on the Elites and Empys.


----------



## Toonartist

turbofeet said:


> Hope you'll get it soon sir.
> I'm auditioning it Tuesday. Looking forward to trying it out on the Elites and Empys.



Ah that should be an experience! My Elites are waiting patiently for that introduction 😂

I hear that the Empy is a superb match with the Envy. Look forward to hearing your thoughts between the Elites & the Empy!


----------



## moosemp

nwavesailor said:


> I agree that this may be optima but I don't have the patience to wait!
> I tend to let the tube warm up for several minutes not hours, play a few songs and form an initial impression for that pair. if I like A compared to B I then settle on that pair for days or weeks. To be honest none of the 6SN7's sounded bad but I am only a few hours into the Envy and there will be some improvement as there are more hours on the amp.


It is important how do you like ENVY WITH STANDARD TUBES🎶


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Toonartist said:


> Anyone tried the Audio Note 4300e 300b’s? I’ve seen a few positive reviews on them.


@paradoxper has....says they're the bees knees.


----------



## Toonartist

ColSaulTigh said:


> @paradoxper has....says they're the bees knees.


Just found his review... sounds very promising!


----------



## nwavesailor (Jul 22, 2022)

Yeah @paradoxper is liking the AN and he knows his tubes!!!!!


----------



## nwavesailor

ColSaulTigh said:


> @paradoxper has....says they're the bees knees.


What the F are the Bee's Knees?????


----------



## ColSaulTigh

nwavesailor said:


> What the F are the Bee's Knees?????


They're like the cat's pajamas!


----------



## nwavesailor (Jul 23, 2022)

deleted


----------



## JTbbb

ColSaulTigh said:


> They're like the cat's pajamas!


Or the dogs b…….😀


----------



## nwavesailor (Jul 23, 2022)

moosemp said:


> It is important how do you like ENVY WITH STANDARD TUBES🎶


It sounds good, even with the stock tubes, or I'd be thinking about returning it!

I pretty sure with various 6SN7's (Sylvania, Raytheon, TSRP, NU and TS 6F8G, 1578)  and the Elrog and perhaps Audio Note or WE 300B it will be crazy good!!!


----------



## 1Audiophool

nwavesailor said:


> What the F are the Bee's Knees?????


Lol.. like @ColSaulTigh said the cats pajamas or meow, cream of the crop. The best thing since sliced bread…which doesn’t really seem like high praise. Kinda sad really if that’s your standard 😜


----------



## ColSaulTigh

1Audiophool said:


> Lol.. like @ColSaulTigh said the cats pajamas or meow, cream of the crop. The best thing since sliced bread…which doesn’t really seem like high praise. Kinda sad really if that’s your standard 😜


I dunno man, sliced bread is pretty dope.  It's the bomb diggity, yo.


----------



## SlothRock

Wait do people really not know the phrase “bees knees”?! Not sure if that means I’m old or young 😂


----------



## ColSaulTigh

SlothRock said:


> Wait do people really not know the phrase “bees knees”?! Not sure if that means I’m old or young 😂


You're way-cool, daddy-o!


----------



## SlothRock

I’m too hip to be square!


----------



## jonathan c

SlothRock said:


> Wait do people really not know the phrase “bees knees”?! Not sure if that means I’m old or young 😂


…nonetheless, an entomologist 🐜 🐝…


----------



## jonathan c

SlothRock said:


> I’m too hip to be square!


Required listening, then!


----------



## 1Audiophool

SlothRock said:


> I’m too hip to be square!


I’m too round to be hip 😆


----------



## incredulousity

Envy is probably the opposite of an hipster amp, though.


----------



## turbofeet

Spent 3hrs with this amp today fed from a Bartok in a lovely silent room (all to myself).

I EQ'd the Meze Elites from the Bartok as it could be a little too neutral for me but wow no need to EQ with that Envy in the chain.

It gives so much more air and body to the sound. I'm quite a bass head and this thing is lovely and meaty. Very impressive.

I used it on medium gain.

I tried the Empyreans on there as well but the extra detail and clarity on the Elites with that powerful bass was an amazing combination. 

They even had some Susvaras there and I'd never heard them before. They were great but a little lean in the bass compared to the Elites and the Elites tuning is more natural to my ears. 

More to my taste but each to their own of course. Yes there is a little more detail but there isn't really much in it imho.

I bought now, pay later haha.

It really is the cats pyjamas (etc.).


----------



## SlothRock

Does this thing have an "On" button on the front? About the only thing I dislike about my Euforia is the button on the back. Gosh dang the Envy is beautiful!


----------



## turbofeet

SlothRock said:


> Does this thing have an "On" button on the front? About the only thing I dislike about my Euforia is the button on the back. Gosh dang the Envy is beautiful!


There is a switch in the back but you leave that on. 

You press the small lit up button with the logo at the top (at the front) to turn it on and off.


----------



## Toonartist

turbofeet said:


> Spent 3hrs with this amp today fed from a Bartok in a lovely silent room (all to myself).
> 
> I EQ'd the Meze Elites from the Bartok as it could be a little too neutral for me but wow no need to EQ with that Envy in the chain.
> 
> ...



Great feedback... so you've placed your order for one or were you able to take the demo unit? The walnut looks very good!


----------



## arthurito

It’s a touch sensitive on/off


----------



## Toonartist

arthurito said:


> It’s a touch sensitive on/off


You can just make not out on the photo above. It's where the white LED is.


----------



## turbofeet

Toonartist said:


> Great feedback... so you've placed your order for one or were you able to take the demo unit? The walnut looks very good!


I wanted an Oak Performance one so I ordered that.

I think it'll look wonderful in Oak as well.

They had none in stock but have previously ordered another 5 which will be with them in between 4 and 6 six weeks. (The Audio Barn).


----------



## Toonartist (Jul 26, 2022)

Excellent stuff! I went for the oak as well even though I liked the walnut... it matches my stand which is oak and glass.

Now you'll just have that feeling you had as a kid waiting for Christmas... days take weeks and weeks take years


----------



## JTbbb

turbofeet said:


> I wanted an Oak Performance one so I ordered that.
> 
> I think it'll look wonderful in Oak as well.
> 
> They had none in stock but have previously ordered another 5 which will be with them in between 4 and 6 six weeks. (The Audio Barn).


Interesting, one them will be mine! End of August then.


----------



## SlothRock

For an amp like the Envy, is it meant to be a tube amp that has the transparency/neutrality of a SS amp but still with added tube flavor? I'm wondering if the top end tube amps like this are designed to lack the typical tube distortion and go for as clean/transparent sound as possible or if they're still going to have the distortion you typically associate with tubes


----------



## Deceneu808

SlothRock said:


> For an amp like the Envy, is it meant to be a tube amp that has the transparency/neutrality of a SS amp but still with added tube flavor? I'm wondering if the top end tube amps like this are designed to lack the typical tube distortion and go for as clean/transparent sound as possible or if they're still going to have the distortion you typically associate with tubes


Also interested in this answer. I'm currently rocking a Elise with RME as source. I feel that the transparency and control of the RME combines very well with the lush and thick Elise. I am interested moving up in the chain and I fear the Euforia AE, not to mention Envy, would be pretty neutral and lack any know and of tube magic. I only have 300 ohm headphones the likes of Sennheiser and ZMF and I fear they won't sound as lovely on the Envy as they sound on the Elise


----------



## jonathan c

SlothRock said:


> For an amp like the Envy, is it meant to be a tube amp that has the transparency/neutrality of a SS amp but still with added tube flavor? I'm wondering if the top end tube amps like this are designed to lack the typical tube distortion and go for as clean/transparent sound as possible or if they're still going to have the distortion you typically associate with tubes


This is the same consideration that prospective Linear Tube Audio MZ3 buyers have. I’ll opine - as a LTA MZ3 owner and possible Feliks Envy owner - that the holy grail in tube h/p/a design is not to capture SS characteristics with tube ‘benefits’ but to capture the immediacy, neutrality, transparency of live music.


----------



## ThanatosVI

SlothRock said:


> For an amp like the Envy, is it meant to be a tube amp that has the transparency/neutrality of a SS amp but still with added tube flavor? I'm wondering if the top end tube amps like this are designed to lack the typical tube distortion and go for as clean/transparent sound as possible or if they're still going to have the distortion you typically associate with tubes





Deceneu808 said:


> Also interested in this answer. I'm currently rocking a Elise with RME as source. I feel that the transparency and control of the RME combines very well with the lush and thick Elise. I am interested moving up in the chain and I fear the Euforia AE, not to mention Envy, would be pretty neutral and lack any know and of tube magic. I only have 300 ohm headphones the likes of Sennheiser and ZMF and I fear they won't sound as lovely on the Envy as they sound on the Elise


This is generally the direction high end tube amps go, but if the end results is:

1. Solid state detail with tube sweetness, best of both worlds 

Or

2. Lacking in tube warmth and distortion 

Is often a matter of personal taste.

I was crazy enough to inquire about further wood types, maybe there is an Envy in my future as well


----------



## Toonartist

ThanatosVI said:


> This is generally the direction high end tube amps go, but if the end results is:
> 
> 1. Solid state detail with tube sweetness, best of both worlds
> 
> ...



Dare I ask what wood you're after?


----------



## incredulousity

There are enough reviews out about Envy to ascertain where it falls in this spectrum. You can always roll in some cheapish bloomy 300Bs for that xxxxxxxtra toooobinesss.

I am unfortunately tempted by Elrog Mo and a few others on the other end. I'll make myself use the stock tubes for at least 4 months, first.


----------



## ThanatosVI (Jul 26, 2022)

Toonartist said:


> Dare I ask what wood you're after?


On one hand an over view of available wood types.

And in particular without knowing specifics, a bright walnut Version, like used for this Eames Chair Replica:


----------



## Toonartist

ThanatosVI said:


> On one hand an over view of available wood types.
> 
> And in particular without knowing specifics, a bright walnut Version, like used for this Eames Chair Replica:
> https://www.replica-eames.co.uk/uploads/1/2/1/4/12140616/s695443080570417806_p26_i7_w1200.jpeg



Very nice... I wish there was enough room in my office to have that as a second chair. I would quite like Macassar Ebony. That would make quite a design statement... as well as a big hole in the wallet!


----------



## nwavesailor

incredulousity said:


> There are enough reviews out about Envy to ascertain where it falls in this spectrum. You can always roll in some cheapish bloomy 300Bs for that xxxxxxxtra toooobinesss.
> 
> I am unfortunately tempted by Elrog Mo and a few others on the other end. I'll make myself use the stock tubes for at least 4 months, first.


I do not have your patience but I must say, the EH aren't bad by any means.

 I will, however, have the Elrogs in the Envy the day they arrive and am expecting better extension in the treble as well as bass.  I used to like a warm and rolled off sound but I've found I now want more clarity and detail without reaching the point of the dreaded sibilance!!!


----------



## incredulousity

I asked about stabilized maple burl. They told me it would be more than $400 upcharge, and would delay to rather late in the year. This was through the sales staff at Upscale, who may have wanted the quicker sale 

So I went for Oak/Performance.

I am not a rolled-off sound kind of person either.


----------



## Toonartist

That is a good point. I think the extra wait would probably kill me. I feel fortunate that I really like oak!


----------



## incredulousity

same here!


----------



## ThanatosVI

Well I'm moving to a new home by the end of the year, wait time would be no issue at all, even if it would mean February or something


----------



## Renexx (Jul 27, 2022)

Deceneu808 said:


> Also interested in this answer. I'm currently rocking a Elise with RME as source. I feel that the transparency and control of the RME combines very well with the lush and thick Elise. I am interested moving up in the chain and I fear the Euforia AE, not to mention Envy, would be pretty neutral and lack any know and of tube magic. I only have 300 ohm headphones the likes of Sennheiser and ZMF and I fear they won't sound as lovely on the Envy as they sound on the Elise


The Euphoria AE should be warmer than the stock Euphoria with many tubes there is more than enough tubey warmth. You will gain some technical capabilities compared to the Elise for sure.

Bigger improvement will be made when you change the RME DAC to a nice R2R DAC at a higher price point. You will be blown away by how capable your amp is.


----------



## LoryWiv (Jul 27, 2022)

Deceneu808 said:


> Also interested in this answer. I'm currently rocking a Elise with RME as source. I feel that the transparency and control of the RME combines very well with the lush and thick Elise. I am interested moving up in the chain and I fear the Euforia AE, not to mention Envy, would be pretty neutral and lack any know and of tube magic. I only have 300 ohm headphones the likes of Sennheiser and ZMF and I fear they won't sound as lovely on the Envy as they sound on the Elise


I recently upgraded from Elise to Euforia AE and yes it is a bit less "tubey" but certainly not solid state sounding. Better technicalities such as detail retrieval, staging, imaging, layering / clarity and frequency extension but still euphonic. Also lower output impedance and a bit more power may permit compatibility with a broader range of headphones.  I am happy with the upgrade.


----------



## turbofeet

LoryWiv said:


> I recently upgraded from Elise to Euforia AE and yes it is a bit less "tubey" but certainly not solid state sounding. Better technicalities such as detail retrieval, staging, imaging, layering / clarity and frequency extension but still euphonic. Also lower output impedance and a bit more power may permit compatibility with a broader range of headphones.  I am happy with the upgrade.


I also had the Euforia and agree 100% with this comment.

The Envy can also be described exactly in this way but it's just better in all of those areas. I mean it should be at that price right 🙂.

It is a technical marvel but very natural sounding.

The fellow I chatted to during the audition said he tried some other tubes in it and that made the sound even more "Euphoric" and "Next level" to his ears.

I loved it as it was but I asked him to email me which tubes specifically had that affect. When he does I'll share here.

Audition if you can but I would be very surprised if anyone was disappointed with it.


----------



## turbofeet

You probably all already know this but the fellow said the Western Electric 300Bs were the Euphoric sounding tubes on the Envy however he personally prefers the Takasuki Tubes in there:

https://www.definitiveaudio.co.uk/product-300b-valves.html

I will enjoy the Full Music ones initially as they were impressive.

All the best.


----------



## paradoxper

ColSaulTigh said:


> @paradoxper has....says they're the bees knees.


They are awesome and I have a pair up for sale.

Of course the Elrog is just something entirely different.


----------



## turbofeet

paradoxper said:


> They are awesome and I have a pair up for sale.
> 
> Of course the Elrog is just something entirely different.


He also mentioned the Elrog but said the price seemed a little silly!

https://www.mcru.co.uk/product/elrog-er300b-m0-triode-valve-tube/


----------



## Toonartist (Jul 27, 2022)

turbofeet said:


> He also mentioned the Elrog but said the price seemed a little silly!
> 
> https://www.mcru.co.uk/product/elrog-er300b-m0-triode-valve-tube/


There's also the non m0 version that is £1120.


----------



## Toonartist

paradoxper said:


> They are awesome and I have a pair up for sale.
> 
> Of course the Elrog is just something entirely different.


Did you feel the Audio Note / Elrog suited a particular genre and what would you say were the key differences. Was it purely more detail and bass with the Elrog? 

In terms of soundstage and imaging, which turned out the better performance? Cheers


----------



## paradoxper

Toonartist said:


> Did you feel the Audio Note / Elrog suited a particular genre and what would you say were the key differences. Was it purely more detail and bass with the Elrog?
> 
> In terms of soundstage and imaging, which turned out the better performance? Cheers


No. In the 300B thread, I covered their character response which illuminates strength of application.
As the 4300E sounds pretty bang neutral, it is suited to be very well rounded.

I also miss some of the sweetness in this context of the Elrog. Additionally I like the ER300B more than the ER300B-Mo as the former carries more sweetness notably through the midrange. 

What separates the Elrog from the rest is primarily resolution scale and treble extension. The Western Electric 300B sounds broken by comparison and by design really.


----------



## Toonartist (Jul 27, 2022)

paradoxper said:


> No. In the 300B thread, I covered their character response which illuminates strength of application.
> As the 4300E sounds pretty bang neutral, it is suited to be very well rounded.
> 
> I also miss some of the sweetness in this context of the Elrog. Additionally I like the ER300B more than the ER300B-Mo as the former carries more sweetness notably through the midrange.
> ...


Thanks... I have to admit, I'm leaning more toward the Elrog ER300B based on your & other descriptions I've read so far. I also use MCRU a lot and know they're good to deal with which counts a lot for me.

Edit... I'm still working my way through the 300b thread... pass the time while I wait for the Envy


----------



## paradoxper

Toonartist said:


> Thanks... I have to admit, I'm leaning more toward the Elrog ER300B based on your & other descriptions I've read so far. I also use MCRU a lot and know they're good to deal with which counts a lot for me.
> 
> Edit... I'm still working my way through the 300b thread... pass the time while I wait for the Envy


The Elrog will ruin your reference of sound and do so blissfully.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

paradoxper said:


> The Elrog will ruin your reference of sound and do so blissfully.


...and wait until I get my Elrog 5U4G's to pop in with the Mo's


----------



## Toonartist

paradoxper said:


> The Elrog will ruin your reference of sound and do so blissfully.


 I still intend to stay strong and let the standard tubes burn in first! Must resist


----------



## paradoxper

ColSaulTigh said:


> ...and wait until I get my Elrog 5U4G's to pop in with the Mo's


Fingers crossed!


----------



## SlothRock

Based on the comments here it looks like the Envy couldn't go ahead and replace my SS & Tube amp all in one. I'd love for "one amp to rule them all" type of deal but it sounds like you'd still be getting the tube distortion/characteristics with the Envy which I'm totally fine with and enjoy but there are plenty of times I'd want the clean SS sound, particularly for complex rock/metal. I remain with the OOR + Hypsos & Euforia combo


----------



## ThanatosVI

SlothRock said:


> Based on the comments here it looks like the Envy couldn't go ahead and replace my SS & Tube amp all in one. I'd love for "one amp to rule them all" type of deal but it sounds like you'd still be getting the tube distortion/characteristics with the Envy which I'm totally fine with and enjoy but there are plenty of times I'd want the clean SS sound, particularly for complex rock/metal. I remain with the OOR + Hypsos & Euforia combo


Actually I do think that you can replace both with the Envy, but then you need 2 pairs of tubes.

1x Western Electric (or similar euphonic tubes)
1x Elrog Molybdenum (or other super linear and detailed tubes)

This should Cover both needs.


----------



## incredulousity

ThanatosVI said:


> Actually I do think that you can replace both with the Envy, but then you need 2 pairs of tubes.
> 
> 1x Western Electric (or similar euphonic tubes)
> 1x Elrog Molybdenum (or other super linear and detailed tubes)
> ...


Any thoughts yet on 6SN7 tube options for Envy yet? On Euforia AE, I've liked ГУ50 and KTxx, with adapters and external power. I don't have a big box of 6SN7 tubes to roll in. Also, sadly, the great guy to whom i just sold Euforia AE did not want the new Envy PSVane tubes, but my already used ones. Clearly a smart man


----------



## ThanatosVI

incredulousity said:


> Any thoughts yet on 6SN7 tube options for Envy yet? On Euforia AE, I've liked ГУ50 and KTxx, with adapters and external power. I don't have a big box of 6SN7 tubes to roll in. Also, sadly, the great guy to whom i just sold Euforia AE did not want the new Envy PSVane tubes, but my already used ones. Clearly a smart man


I unfortunately don't know much about 6SN7 tubes.

Waiting for someone crazy enough to test the KTxx with adapters in the Envy...


----------



## incredulousity

ThanatosVI said:


> I unfortunately don't know much about 6SN7 tubes.
> 
> Waiting for someone crazy enough to test the KTxx with adapters in the Envy...


Yeah... I fear that that will be me.


----------



## ThanatosVI

incredulousity said:


> Yeah... I fear that that will be me.


Your sacrifice will be welcome.

However remember, it is unlikely to work and the risk is high!


----------



## LoryWiv

ThanatosVI said:


> Your sacrifice will be welcome.
> 
> However remember, it is unlikely to work and the risk is high!


Why is it unlikely to work? Exceeds total current draw limit or some other reason?


----------



## ThanatosVI

LoryWiv said:


> Why is it unlikely to work? Exceeds total current draw limit or some other reason?


We do not know the current draw limit of the Envy  but a KT88 draws 1.6A while a 6SN7 only 0.6A

The Elise and Euforia just had a setup where the 6n13S draws 2.5A and the 6SN7 0.6 which is roughly the same as KT88 with 1.6A in both slots.


----------



## LoryWiv

ThanatosVI said:


> We do not know the current draw limit of the Envy  but a KT88 draws 1.6A while a 6SN7 only 0.6A
> 
> The Elise and Euforia just had a setup where the 6n13S draws 2.5A and the 6SN7 0.6 which is roughly the same as KT88 with 1.6A in both slots.


Understood, that makes perfect sense. Thank you for clarifying.


----------



## incredulousity

I could care less about current draw restrictions, as I have external heater current (up to 20A total) 6SN7 adapters/power supply from @Deyan.

Lots of people have done this for years on Elise and the Euforias.

Less predictable is whether the output of the KTxx is somehow incompatable with the 300B, but since they are basically behaving as 6SN7s in the prior context through adapters, I doubt that there would be much issue. But I am not an engineer.


----------



## LoryWiv

incredulousity said:


> I could care less about current draw restrictions, as I have external heater current (up to 20A total) 6SN7 adapters/power supply from @Deyan.
> 
> Lots of people have done this for years on Elise and the Euforias.
> 
> Less predictable is whether the output of the KTxx is somehow incompatable with the 300B, but since they are basically *behaving as 6SN7s *in the prior context through adapters, I doubt that there would be much issue. But I am not an engineer.


Are they behaving as 6SN7s because in the adapters they are triode strapped?


----------



## nwavesailor

I have Melz 1578's that arrived today and Elrogs scheduled to arrive tomorrow. 

Using the stock EH 300B I have tried 1960's RCA and Sylvania's as well as1940's Raytheons and TSRP 6SN7. The Raytheons are tops so far and the TSRP were disappointing for such a super hyped tube. 

I am expecting to hear a nice step up tomorrow with the addition of the Elrogs.


----------



## incredulousity

LoryWiv said:


> Are they behaving as 6SN7s because in the adapters they are triode strapped?


I think so.


----------



## SlothRock

ThanatosVI said:


> Actually I do think that you can replace both with the Envy, but then you need 2 pairs of tubes.
> 
> 1x Western Electric (or similar euphonic tubes)
> 1x Elrog Molybdenum (or other super linear and detailed tubes)
> ...



I'm not a measurement snob by ANY means, but I do like to look at them and use them to try and and get a sense for sound signature. That being said, I feel like this would be a perfect situation for measurements. It'd be killer to see how the Envy measures relative to other tube amps and especially the differences between different 300B tubes. That'd be very cool!


----------



## ColSaulTigh

nwavesailor said:


> I have Melz 1578's that arrived today and Elrogs scheduled to arrive tomorrow.
> 
> Using the stock EH 300B I have tried 1960's RCA and Sylvania's as well as1940's Raytheons and TSRP 6SN7. The Raytheons are tops so far and the TSRP were disappointing for such a super hyped tube.
> 
> I am expecting to hear a nice step up tomorrow with the addition of the Elrogs.


Don't be surprised if you're Melz take a little time to settle down.  My first pair of NOS took about 3 hours just to stop crackling as they burned in.  They're fine now, but it was like listening to popcorn for the first night I used them.


----------



## nwavesailor

Thanks for the heads up with the 1578. I would think I had a bad tube or pair if I heard that much going on!


----------



## HichamV

One warning for those who want this for their desktop set up: This thing runs hot! I use this as a preamp as well and it is basically on all day. But I have it next to my computer screen, something like 60-80 cm away from my face, but I can feel one side of my face heating up. The hot summer is not helping but I am thinking of putting it further away from me, even if that means that the volume button will be quite far away.


----------



## ThanatosVI

HichamV said:


> One warning for those who want this for their desktop set up: This thing runs hot! I use this as a preamp as well and it is basically on all day. But I have it next to my computer screen, something like 60-80 cm away from my face, but I can feel one side of my face heating up. The hot summer is not helping but I am thinking of putting it further away from me, even if that means that the volume button will be quite far away.


While I am sure that it can easily rhn 12h in one sitting, you might want to pay attention if you literally have it running all day.


----------



## Toonartist

ThanatosVI said:


> While I am sure that it can easily rhn 12h in one sitting, you might want to pay attention if you literally have it running all day.


I thought they recommend it's ran for no more than 8hrs a time before resting it for an hour.


----------



## incredulousity

Toonartist said:


> I thought they recommend it's ran for no more than 8hrs a time before resting it for an hour.


The manual is not yet available online, so perhaps someone who actually has one can check on this. 8 hours was recommended for Euforia AE.


----------



## Toonartist

incredulousity said:


> The manual is not yet available online, so perhaps someone who actually has one can check on this. 8 hours was recommended for Euforia AE.


That’s probably where I got it from.


----------



## LoryWiv

Tube amps can run hot, and as noted generally are not recommended to be left on for more than 8 hours continuously, although opinions vary. Over in the Euforia thread @mordy has posted his experience using usb powered, quiet running cooling fans. Just a thought. 💡


----------



## Newsee

HichamV said:


> Anyone here can compare the Feliks Envy with Enleum? Is the Envy a level above or is it more a taste preference?
> I was going to choose between Envy and Auris Nirvana, but my dealer cannot get the Nirvana and propesed the Enleum as a good option.





HichamV said:


> I have it next to my computer screen, something like 60-80 cm away from my face,


So no Auris Nirvana, no Enleum for you. Could you do the audition/comparision, or have you decided blindly? Which version have you got? Any sound impressions?


----------



## Toonartist (Aug 5, 2022)

Looks like another promised date has come and gone again. I'm not going to chase anymore, I'm past that and I enjoy my current setup.

I'm heading for a demo next week of the new Leica M11 and if I like it, I'll go for it. Just becoming more than little fed up with shifting goal posts.


----------



## jonathan c

HichamV said:


> One warning for those who want this for their desktop set up: This thing runs hot! I use this as a preamp as well and it is basically on all day. But I have it next to my computer screen, something like 60-80 cm away from my face, but I can feel one side of my face heating up.


😳…you certainly don’t want to look like a single triode…😏!


----------



## nwavesailor

Toonartist said:


> Looks like another promised date has come and gone again. I'm not going to chase anymore, I'm past that and I enjoy my current setup.
> 
> I'm heading for a demo next week of the new Leica M11 and if I like it, I'll go for it. Just becoming more than little fed up with shifting goal posts.


My 4 month wait and missed delivery dates were frustrating but, now that I have the Envy, was worth the wait!


----------



## JTbbb

Toonartist said:


> Looks like another promised date has come and gone again. I'm not going to chase anymore, I'm past that and I enjoy my current setup.
> 
> I'm heading for a demo next week of the new Leica M11 and if I like it, I'll go for it. Just becoming more than little fed up with shifting goal posts.


Ha, and I thought that was a camera 😀.

I’m still in perseverance mode.


----------



## Toonartist (Aug 5, 2022)

What annoys me more than the wait is how no one ever seems to get back to you after promising X and failing. They feel that ignoring it is the best way but sadly, I find that the biggest turn off in terms of wanting to deal with a company.

We'll see what happens next week. I love my Sony A1 & Leica Q-P but if I like the feel of the M11 and it adds something to the way I work then I'll take it and the Envy will be shelved for now.

For context, I was told it would be nearer 5 weeks with a max of 9... then 10... now 12...


----------



## turbofeet

Toonartist said:


> What annoys me more than the wait is how no one ever seems to get back to you after promising X and failing. They feel that ignoring it is the best way but sadly, I find that the biggest turn off in terms of wanting to deal with a company.
> 
> We'll see what happens next week. I love my Sony A1 & Leica Q-P but if I like the feel of the M11 and it adds something to the way I work then I'll take it and the Envy will be shelved for now.
> 
> For context, I was told it would be nearer 5 weeks with a max of 9... then 10... now 12...


Hang in there!


----------



## normie610

Toonartist said:


> What annoys me more than the wait is how no one ever seems to get back to you after promising X and failing. They feel that ignoring it is the best way but sadly, I find that the biggest turn off in terms of wanting to deal with a company.
> 
> We'll see what happens next week. I love my Sony A1 & Leica Q-P but if I like the feel of the M11 and it adds something to the way I work then I'll take it and the Envy will be shelved for now.
> 
> For context, I was told it would be nearer 5 weeks with a max of 9... then 10... now 12...


AFAIK, the lead time on M11 is also quite long. I got mine after a 2-month wait. So perhaps you can still get the Envy instead?


----------



## Toonartist (Aug 5, 2022)

They have a ex-demo one available. My decision will be whether I feel it will fit in with the way I work or, whether I wait till next year for the Q3 that will have the same 60mp sensor in it.

If I feel the Q fits better for work, I may go for an M10 with maybe a lens or two when the Q3 is released. I don't want to sacrifice too much in terms of workflow but keeping a Q and the M just gives more options while adding quality lenses over time.

The Sony has to stay... that's my main system with the Leica my B camera. The only things I miss with the Q are the ability to move the focus point around the screen with manual focus assist plus and the extra pixels for cropping.

I'm going down to see it on Tuesday but the longer this goes on the less inclined I am to proceed. I do want the amp but, spending this amount of money I'd hope to receive the same level of customer service rather than radio silence and missed dates.


----------



## normie610

Toonartist said:


> I'm going down to see it on Tuesday but the longer this goes on the less inclined I am to proceed. I do want the amp but, spending this amount of money I'd hope to receive the same level of customer service rather than radio silence and missed dates.


Totally understandable, if I were in the same position I’d probably have the same line of thoughts. On another note, I sold my A1 since I don’t do much of action photography or even BIF and sticking with M11, Q2M and GFX100S. Oh and a X100V just for fun! Anyway, back to Envy!


----------



## Toonartist

We'll see what happens next week, you never know but so far the only contact is when I've chased so I'm not expecting much but they may surprise me.

The image quality of the Fuji GFX100S must be something special. I used to shoot with the X Pro when they were first released. Their 35mm f/1.4 was clunky in terms of focus but beautiful image quality!


----------



## incredulousity

You know you are in a Summit Fi thread, when the discussion degenerates to Leica and medium format camera talk


----------



## ColSaulTigh

incredulousity said:


> You know you are in a Summit Fi thread, when the discussion degenerates to Leica and medium format camera talk


Only poors used Leica.  Hassleblad or nothing at all!


----------



## incredulousity

I have Hasselblads. I use Nikon Z.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

incredulousity said:


> I have Hasselblads. I use Nikon Z.


Nikon for 35mm all the way (although I still have my Canon with some L lenses packed away somewhere...)


----------



## JazzVinyl

ColSaulTigh said:


> Nikon for 35mm all the way (although I still have my Canon with some L lenses packed away somewhere...)


Konica Hexanon glass was (is) way sharper than Nikkors.  

There were some sharp Nikkor lenses, but quality control realy suffered after Nikon became a household word.   Had to test each lens to find a good one.

Now, what about the FA Envy?


----------



## incredulousity

The S line Nikkors for Z mount are vastly superior to any older F and earlier lenses. I totally agree about Konica being better way back when. 

My Envy isn’t here yet. I have Envy envy. 

Waaaaaahhh!!!!


----------



## Toonartist

incredulousity said:


> You know you are in a Summit Fi thread, when the discussion degenerates to Leica and medium format camera talk


Lol...


----------



## HichamV (Aug 8, 2022)

Newsee said:


> So no Auris Nirvana, no Enleum for you. Could you do the audition/comparision, or have you decided blindly? Which version have you got? Any sound impressions?



My dealer could not get the Auris in. Their is no distributor left in Belgium, Auris itself did not respond to his mails and calls. On top of that Auris has not responded to multiple of my mails these last months, so the level of trust was dropping every week. Compare this to Feliks who responded within 24 hours... Still sad, because I really loved the Auris Nirvana when I listened to it last year. But no direct comparisons with the Nirvana and the Envy.

I did end up auditioning the Envy and the Enleum together. The Envy was the clear winner. The store owner was surprised, 'cause the Enleum had won other direct comparisons with a landslide he said. Both are clearly very good amps. The Envy had more 'air', sounded more alive. The Enleum sounded a bit more normal, a bit too tame. My dealer said it was the combination with the Holo May and Susvara that made a big difference. 
Top that off with the fact that my speakers are too power hungry for the Enleum and the Envy wins on functionality too.

Apart from the heat, another problem I have is that when I use it as a pre-amp, the volume knob is way to sensitive. According to Feliks the May probably runs too 'hot' and I might need Roon or somehting like that to control the volume.


----------



## HichamV (Aug 8, 2022)

For those who are comparing prices, I ended up paying 6100 euro for the 'performance' edition with Walnut finish. I bought it together with my Susvara, so the store was happy to give some discount.


----------



## Toonartist

12 weeks and still waiting. I might just print a photo off and put it on the rack


----------



## Toonartist

Drum roll.........

Dealer - "We got some tracking details today from  Feliks Audio, so it looks like your goods are on the way !" 



Or... it's a signed photo of the Envy to put on my rack! It just better not be another Euforia!


----------



## KelFab

Good news ! 👍
With what will you feed the Envy, your Atom HE ?


----------



## Toonartist

That is the preferred option as I really like the interface and the sound of the Atom HE. I will just move between that and the Envy. I have a pair of Tellurium Q Ultra Silver XLRs which aren't being used so I will connect the Atom HE to the Envy with those.

I do also have a Hugo 2 with a pair of Oyaide solid silver RCA cables so I intend to give that a spin as well. Both options will make use of a Roon Nucleus local files and Qobuz.


----------



## KelFab

Atom HE and Hugo 2 here too so interested by your comparative feedback


----------



## Toonartist

KelFab said:


> Atom HE and Hugo 2 here too so interested by your comparative feedback



It should be interesting. I love the detail of the H2 but I only use that for travelling now. The Atom HE just has a better 3d out of / away from head soundstage and has more weight, better texture to the bass.


----------



## KelFab

I also rarely use Hugo 2 since I bought the Atom HE but adding a tube amp (and not the worse it seems 😂) could be a game changer …
Have you already tried adding another amp with these 2 or will it be first time ?


----------



## Toonartist

KelFab said:


> I also rarely use Hugo 2 since I bought the Atom HE but adding a tube amp (and not the worse it seems 😂) could be a game changer …
> Have you already tried adding another amp with these 2 or will it be first time ?


First time. I have read a few people using the Feliks Euforia and say8ng it was a really good match. I just wanted an amp that I knew would handle any planar headphones as I intend this to be an endgame tube solution.


----------



## KelFab

So … me too I can't wait for you to receive it


----------



## Toonartist

Me too… spring was just getting underway when it was ordered and today I was stacking the logs for winter 😂


----------



## KelFab (Aug 8, 2022)

Once you’ll have it and listen to it you’ll probably quickly forget about the waiting time


----------



## Toonartist

That's what I'm hoping   

I'm still going to check out the Leica M11 tomorrow though, but that's looking more like next year now. Especially as I'll want to add either the 28mm summicron or 35mm Summilux!


----------



## LoryWiv

HichamV said:


> My dealer could not get the Auris in. Their is no distributor left in Belgium, Auris itself did not respond to his mails and calls. On top of that Auris has not responded to multiple of my mails these last months, so the level of trust was dropping every week. Compare this to Feliks who responded within 24 hours... Still sad, because I really loved the Auris Nirvana when I listened to it last year. But no direct comparisons with the Nirvana and the Envy.
> 
> I did end up auditioning the Envy and the Enleum together. The Envy was the clear winner. The store owner was surprised, 'cause the Enleum had won other direct comparisons with a landslide he said. Both are clearly very good amps. The Envy had more 'air', sounded more alive. The Enleum sounded a bit more normal, a bit too tame. My dealer said it was the combination with the Holo May and Susvara that made a big difference.
> Top that off with the fact that my speakers are too power hungry for the Enleum and the Envy wins on functionality too.
> ...


I have different gear but use Signalyst HQ Player, excellent playback software with configurable max. and min. sound levels. Not sure if it will help with the issue you describe but worth inquiring.


----------



## ThanatosVI

I was in contact with Feliks Audio regarding wood options. 
They can fullfill my most exotic wishes, but at a steep price.

Therefore I now severely discounted my Octave V16, since I have to sell it first and owning both is no longer an option.


----------



## Toonartist (Aug 9, 2022)

That must have been a big difference over the walnut etc then.

A couple of weeks back an extra expense nearly stopped the Envy project for myself. Our dog did something to his back and he couldn't walk properly on his hind legs. They suspected IVDD and gave hime strong pain killers and said he needed complete rest for 6 weeks. 3 days afterwards and he has recovered to normal. Although, we're still enforcing (trying) complete rest just in case. The treatment had he not recovered so well was a £2k MRI bill followed by surgery... more than the Envy. I would have gladly paid it though!

It seems like he may have just pinched a nerve (hoping)... now he is milking all the attention he can get


----------



## ThanatosVI

Toonartist said:


> That must have been a big difference over the walnut etc then.
> 
> A couple of weeks back an extra expense nearly stopped the Envy project for myself. Our dog did something to his back and he couldn't walk properly on his hind legs. They suspected IVDD and gave hime strong pain killers and said he needed complete rest for 6 weeks. 3 days afterwards and he has recovered to normal. Although, we're still enforcing (trying) complete rest just in case. The treatment had he not recovered so well was a £2k MRI bill followed by surgery... more than the Envy. I would have gladly paid it though!
> 
> It seems like he may have just pinched a nerve (hoping)... now he is milking all the attention he can get


The dog is certainly the more important expense. Glad that he recovered faster than expected and that it wasn't as severe as initially feared.

I die inside by the thought that something could happen to my pets. 

And yes the price increase is significantly above the normal options. Just the wood is 3k on top, which makes a performance Version scratch at 10k (incl tax)

I inquired walnut at first, and it does look gorgeous (way better than Oak or american walnut imo).
Then I continued to ask about bog oak and they can even deliver on the blackish shade of 7000 year old wood.
I can then still choose if I want it with epoxy resin filled cracks or without (right now I lean to without cracks)


----------



## Toonartist (Aug 9, 2022)

As pet owners it's something we know will happen and accept it because they offer so much more in return... it doesn't make it any easier though. It was an awful weekend but very happy to see him back to his normal self!

That should be an interesting finish to the Envy. I think I'd go smooth as well purely for the fact it would be easier to keep clean and in good condition. I'd imagine over time the cracks would fill up with all sorts of dust, muck that float around and would be hard. Again, I'm quite relieved that I like oak


----------



## Newsee

ThanatosVI said:


> And yes the price increase is significantly above the normal options. Just the wood is 3k on top, which makes a performance Version scratch at 10k (incl tax)
> 
> I inquired walnut at first, and it does look gorgeous (way better than Oak or american walnut imo).
> Then I continued to ask about bog oak and they can even deliver on the blackish shade of 7000 year old wood.
> I can then still choose if I want it with epoxy resin filled cracks or without (right now I lean to without cracks)


Wow. That's a level where aesthetic becomes as important as the sound quality. 

I have heard about the existence of bog oak first in the Kennerton thread. Looked up what it is - sort of naturally stoned wood. That will surely make an enviable Envy.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Newsee said:


> Wow. That's a level where aesthetic becomes as important as the sound quality.
> 
> I have heard about the existence of bog oak first in the Kennerton thread. Looked up what it is - sort of naturally stoned wood. That will surely make an enviable Envy.


Yeah I also learned about it in the Kennerton thread. Unfortunately it's really hard to come by it outside of russia. (Mainly Ireland has some)

For me, after reaching such a high level of sound quality, the aesthetics and comfort became increasingly more Important.

Now I am looking into hifi racks, chairs and all the stuff around the gear to make the experience even more pleasing.

Of  ourse I could also just take a walnut Version, but having something as special as bog oak makes me probably keep it forever, saving on expenses down the line... for that I need to sell my current amp first tho


----------



## JTbbb

ThanatosVI said:


> Yeah I also learned about it in the Kennerton thread. Unfortunately it's really hard to come by it outside of russia. (Mainly Ireland has some)
> 
> For me, after reaching such a high level of sound quality, the aesthetics and comfort became increasingly more Important.
> 
> ...


I have no idea whether this place could help with sourcing bog oak at a reasonable price. But hey ho, you never know unless you try.

https://www.exotichardwoods.co.uk/Woods_List/Bog_Oak.asp


----------



## incredulousity

I asked Feliks about stabilised maple burl, and they said they could do it for $2000 upcharge as well.

A good thing indeed, that I like the oak.


----------



## JTbbb

My Envy is being dispatched end of the week 👍


----------



## Toonartist

Sounds like their production line must be picking up speed


----------



## turbofeet

JTbbb said:


> My Envy is being dispatched end of the week 👍


Excellent news!

I chose to rip some Vinyl while I wait for mine.

The Envy will live on the top shelf so the turntable is temporary.


----------



## Newsee

turbofeet said:


> Excellent news!
> 
> I chose to rip some Vinyl while I wait for mine.
> 
> The Envy will live on the top shelf so the turntable is temporary.


Nice stand, what made is it?


----------



## turbofeet

Newsee said:


> Nice stand, what made is it?


It's an "Atacama Apollo Storm 6".

It may look a bit odd as I had a friend cut the lower shelves a little narrower.

The top shelf is full size but with the holes recut inward.

So; you're eye's aren't deceiving you if it looks a bit off.


----------



## nwavesailor

I bought the Envy (standard package) knowing that it had to be very special to sound better than my Bigger Ben with NOS GEC KT-88, Tele G73-R and the Mighty 596. The BB sounded so good I wasn't sure the Envy could sound as good or perhaps better...........but it does!

 Even with the basic stock EH 300B I knew the Envy was a keeper!
 With the addition of Elrog 300B and various drivers ( Melz 1578, TS Round Plate VT-99 / 6F8G, Sylvania, Raytheon and TSRP  6SN7) it is simply stunning. Good deep tight bass and extended treble w/o etching or a glassy top end.

The Envy is simply stunning!


----------



## turbofeet

nwavesailor said:


> I bought the Envy (standard package) knowing that it had to be very special to sound better than my Bigger Ben with NOS GEC KT-88, Tele G73-R and the Mighty 596. The BB sounded so good I wasn't sure the Envy could sound as good or perhaps better...........but it does!
> 
> Even with the basic stock EH 300B I knew the Envy was a keeper!
> With the addition of Elrog 300B and various drivers ( Melz 1578, TS Round Plate VT-99 / 6F8G, Sylvania, Raytheon and TSRP  6SN7) it is simply stunning. Good deep tight bass and extended treble w/o etching or a glassy top end.
> ...


Glad it's starting to arrive for people after that long delay.

The bass and air is what I loved as well.

The top end is really clear and extended without any hint of brightness. 

Clear and meaty is the best way I could describe it.

I was very impressed as well. It was the best thing I'd ever heard.

I bet it's amazing with those Elrogs too.

Looking forward to more impressions.


----------



## UntilThen

ThanatosVI said:


> Waiting for someone crazy enough to test the KTxx with adapters in the Envy...



Please do not use KT88 as drivers in Envy or any other 300b amps. KT88 are not meant to be drivers. They are solid power tubes and are not suitable to drive 300b tubes. Ask any tube amp engineers or better still ask Lukasz. They will shake their heads.


----------



## Toonartist (Aug 16, 2022)

turbofeet said:


> Glad it's starting to arrive for people after that long delay.
> 
> The bass and air is what I loved as well.
> 
> ...


No further news here. I was told the dealer had initial tracking details just over a week ago but no sign of anything yet.


----------



## turbofeet

Toonartist said:


> No further news here. I was told the dealer had initial tracking details just over a week ago but no sign of anything yet.


I think it depends where it's shipping from. The guy from the Audio Barn mentioned that customs can add quite a lot to the delay.


----------



## Toonartist (Aug 16, 2022)

turbofeet said:


> I think it depends where it's shipping from. The guy from the Audio Barn mentioned that customs can add quite a lot to the delay.


Maybe. Some places like to hide behind Brexit etc but the reality is the customs checks are not done at the airport (unless they think it is a suspicious package).

I've ordered a load of gear from Ubiquiti in the Netherlands recently which was, surprisingly, next day delivery. Actually,  my Lavricables Grand arrived in a day and a half.

The delivery company starts the customs checks as soon as the item is picked up so it is all cleared by the time it arrives at the airport and is straight on the plane. This is why next day / 48hr is still fairly normal with UPS etc from the EU. I remember both those recent deliveries documented the customs checks as complete before they'd even arrived at the airport.

Edit... Details from HMRC Customs Clearing. Docs are all electronic which is why there is a fast turnaround for couriers. Provided the forms have been filled in correctly.

If you’ve provided the documents that HMRC need, the arrived goods should be cleared:

within 2 hours for air freight imports, road freight imports, all exports
within 3 hours if received between 8am and 3pm for marine freight imports
by 8am the following day if received after 3pm for marine freight imports


----------



## JTbbb

Up and running and agree with what others say. It’s only been an hour so far, and my Utopia’s are sounding lovely compared to out of Euforia AE.


----------



## turbofeet

JTbbb said:


> Up and running and agree with what others say. It’s only been an hour so far, and my Utopia’s are sounding lovely compared to out of Euforia AE.


Grats. Looks great in Oak!


----------



## ThanatosVI

JTbbb said:


> Up and running and agree with what others say. It’s only been an hour so far, and my Utopia’s are sounding lovely compared to out of Euforia AE.


Beautiful,  simply beautiful


----------



## Newsee

JTbbb said:


> Up and running and agree with what others say. It’s only been an hour so far, and my Utopia’s are sounding lovely compared to out of Euforia AE.


Lovely. How long did you have to wait for this? 
Looks like no stock tubes. What is this black stuff under the tubes good for?


----------



## nwavesailor

VERY nice!

TSRP 6sn7 with your Tak"s?


----------



## incredulousity

nwavesailor said:


> VERY nice!
> 
> TSRP 6sn7 with your Tak"s?


GorgeousI Still waiting for mine. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Also, whose socket savers are you using?


----------



## JTbbb (Aug 18, 2022)

incredulousity said:


> GorgeousI Still waiting for mine. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
> 
> Also, whose socket savers are you using?


My wait was 11 weeks. The socket savers are Deyan’s , and Newsee…I don’t like the recessed sockets, I want a firm hold of the base when swapping out tubes, especially 70yr old drivers. Edit:- Bought Envy without the tubes.


----------



## incredulousity

I haven’t yet waited as long as you. They just made the mistake of notifying me that they expected much earlier delivery on multiple occasions.


----------



## Deleeh

Congratulations and have fun with him.
It looks very chic and elegant.


----------



## nwavesailor

incredulousity said:


> I haven’t yet waited as long as you. They just made the mistake of notifying me that they expected much earlier delivery on multiple occasions.


Yeah, Upscale was optimistic regarding a realistic delivery date.  I preordered in March and received it in July. I'm sure a lot was out of their control with supply chain and production issues. My amp is #28.

I'm am glad I stayed with the order and didn't bail out. It WAS worth the wait!


----------



## ThanatosVI

To the Envy owners, does somebody use it with the Meze Elite or Empyrean?

If so, is it dead silent on these sensitive headphones?


----------



## nwavesailor

I no longer have Empy's but It is dead quiet using LCD-5 and T+A, P on low setting and with the Sus on high.


----------



## ThanatosVI

nwavesailor said:


> I no longer have Empy's but It is dead quiet using LCD-5 and T+A, P on low setting and with the Sus on high.


That means you can hear some noise on Solitaire P when the impedance setting is on mid or high?


----------



## nwavesailor

Yes. I made that mistake on day 1 when moving from the Sus at high to either the 5 or the P (?) 
 I was initially bummed that I had hum but realized I hadn't turned it down after using the Sus!


----------



## incredulousity

Some reviewers have said no hum with Elite or Empy on medium too. High is not recommended for them, but is for Susvara.


----------



## ThanatosVI

nwavesailor said:


> Yes. I made that mistake on day 1 when moving from the Sus at high to either the 5 or the P (?)
> I was initially bummed that I had hum but realized I hadn't turned it down after using the Sus!


Thanks.

Then I hope a Meze owner can chime in.
Don't think I could go back from my totally black background



incredulousity said:


> Some reviewers have said no hum with Elite or Empy on medium too. High is not recommended for them, but is for Susvara.


That sounds promising.
Elite is my most Important headphone, but Mezes sensitivity is too high, so that an extra low noise floor becomes a thing to think about again...


----------



## nwavesailor

The elite and P are both supposed to be 101 db sensitivity and the P are 90 db. 

I'll double check the P tonight in the low (I know that is quiet) and med setting


----------



## incredulousity

I get no noise with either Elite or Envy on anything, even on GSX Mk2 high gain. But Envy and Octave are different beasts. 

And I know your power is sorted.


----------



## arthurito

There’s no noise with Mad24 on low, those are sensitive


----------



## paradoxper

JTbbb said:


> Up and running and agree with what others say. It’s only been an hour so far, and my Utopia’s are sounding lovely compared to out of Euforia AE.


Fantastic! 

You gotta get Elrogs burnin' that baby!


----------



## rev92

Oh my


----------



## incredulousity

rev92 said:


> Oh my


Looks like they sent mine to you!


----------



## turbofeet (Aug 19, 2022)

ThanatosVI said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Then I hope a Meze owner can chime in.
> Don't think I could go back from my totally black background
> ...


I listened for 3 hrs with my Elites and for about only 15 minutes on the Empyreans. Both on medium gain but I'd imagine low gain would be sufficient.

The extra detail from the Elites with that air the Envy provides was wonderful. The Empyreans were great too but personally I preferred the Elites.

Background was perfectly black however you do hear a weird ringing noise when you tap the Envy with your finger. Not on the actual tubes of course but on the Envy itself.

It's a weird noise like you are floating around inside the tubes. (Best explanation I can give).

I only did that as the fellow in the shop mentioned it. Normally I would leave it alone and tap my feet instead.

I'd imagine that's perfectly normal behaviour. The rest of the time it's dead silent.

Very nice.

Edit: I should add this is with nothing playing.


----------



## Deceneu808

Interested in VC, Atrium and HD600 pairing.


----------



## Newsee

turbofeet said:


> I listened for 3 hrs with my Elites and for about only 15 minutes on the Empyreans. Both on medium gain but I'd imagine low gain would be sufficient.
> 
> The extra detail from the Elites with that air the Envy provides was wonderful. The Empyreans were great too but personally I preferred the Elites.
> 
> ...


3 hours of listening with nothing playing shows patience and preservance. 😃


----------



## turbofeet

Newsee said:


> 3 hours of listening with nothing playing shows patience and preservance. 😃


Lol. It was very peaceful. I really found myself.


----------



## JTbbb

paradoxper said:


> Fantastic!
> 
> You gotta get Elrogs burnin' that baby!


I have them and they are going in next! Those Tak’s I wanted to listen to first as I bought them from a shop, just in case they were noisy etc. The Elrog’s and WE’s came from trusted sources. Like yourself for the WE’s 😀.


----------



## turbofeet

JTbbb said:


> I have them and they are going in next! Those Tak’s I wanted to listen to first as I bought them from a shop, just in case they were noisy etc. The Elrog’s and WE’s came from trusted sources. Like yourself for the WE’s 😀.


Curious to hear what you think of each of those tubes.

I listened with the performance Full Music tubes and was blown away by them but the fellow in the shop bought the Tak's and says he loved those and they were his pick.

He's saving for an Envy himself but has tried multiple tubes already in their demo unit.


----------



## JTbbb

turbofeet said:


> Curious to hear what you think of each of those tubes.
> 
> I listened with the performance Full Music tubes and was blown away by them but the fellow in the shop bought the Tak's and says he loved those and they were his pick.
> 
> He's saving for an Envy himself but has tried multiple tubes already in their demo unit.


Well, I cannot compare to the Full Music tubes but the Tak’s were wonderful. They took my Utopia’s to another level. Of course, this is with the Envy too, and I’m comparing against Euforia AE with 5998/421A. I’ve now had a few hours with the Elrog’s and they are indeed what others are saying. Not night and day in my opinion against the Tak’s, but within the first few minutes I had a silly grin on my face! For the second time 😀.


----------



## turbofeet

JTbbb said:


> Well, I cannot compare to the Full Music tubes but the Tak’s were wonderful. They took my Utopia’s to another level. Of course, this is with the Envy too, and I’m comparing against Euforia AE with 5998/421A. I’ve now had a few hours with the Elrog’s and they are indeed what others are saying. Not night and day in my opinion against the Tak’s, but within the first few minutes I had a silly grin on my face! For the second time 😀.


Which Elrogs do you have the ER300B-M0 or ER300B?

The price difference is quite high.


----------



## JTbbb

turbofeet said:


> Which Elrogs do you have the ER300B-M0 or ER300B?
> 
> The price difference is quite high.


The ER300B’s


----------



## turbofeet

For those with an Envy listen to this:

https://open.qobuz.com/track/463436

It's a lovely quality sounding tune anyway but it sounded particularly incredible on that amp.

There is a tiny tiny (such a small amount) of brightness when her voice goes up a few octaves but its sooo silky smooth on that amp with every pluck and note in its own space. 

That was definitely a wow moment for me - that track on that amp.


----------



## rev92

I have one problem with my Envy so far - every time I turn it on and have a listen, I eventually realize that it's already 4 AM in the morning and I desperately need to go get some sleep time


----------



## rev92

A little messy on my desk, but totally worth it lol 😂

Late night listening…Aint going to sleep anytime soon apparently


----------



## alekc

rev92 said:


> A little messy on my desk, but totally worth it lol 😂
> 
> Late night listening…Aint going to sleep anytime soon apparently


@rev92  interesting picture: out of few headphones I have been testing with Envy the Final Audio D8000 was a bit disappointing to me, even when when comparing with Focal Clear MGs.


----------



## arthurito

rev92 said:


> A little messy on my desk, but totally worth it lol 😂
> 
> Late night listening…Aint going to sleep anytime soon apparently


How do you like the HEDDphones on envy?


----------



## rev92

arthurito said:


> How do you like the HEDDphones on envy?


Absolutely marvelous. Forward, highly textured, amazing bass slam, clean and detailed.


----------



## JTbbb

I have never heard my Sennhieser HD800S sound so good! This with Elrog 300B, Mullard ecc32’s, in Envy , impedance mid.


----------



## rev92

JTbbb said:


> I have never heard my Sennhieser HD800S sound so good! This with Elrog 300B, Mullard ecc32’s, in Envy , impedance mid.



Damn, nice!
I like the matching wood of your stand, cool


----------



## turbofeet

JTbbb said:


> I have never heard my Sennhieser HD800S sound so good! This with Elrog 300B, Mullard ecc32’s, in Envy , impedance mid.


Awesome. Looks really great.

I've had my eye on those same Elrogs. From the described sound they sound like the better choice for my tastes than the more expensive versions. I don't even have my Envy yet but am already thinking about tubes.

The review of them on Stereo Net sounds exactly how I'd describe the Full Music ones that I listened to.

They must be very similar sounding but I'd imagine even better.

Staying patient while the production line moves along...


----------



## nwavesailor

The Melz1578 are very nice, paired with the Elrogs, as are the 1940's Tung Sol round plate 6SN7.
The EH gold didn't sound bad at all in the Envy, but the Elrog's sound fantastic!


----------



## incredulousity

My Envy finally shipped!  

ETA 29 August. I’ll believe it when I see it.


----------



## rev92

incredulousity said:


> My Envy finally shipped!
> 
> ETA 29 August. I’ll believe it when I see it.



Congrats, welcome to the family!

I’m as usual, sitting here at 2:30 AM after my „I’m gonna listen to Music for an hour” taking 3 hours so far 😂

Tonight I’m rocking the ENVY with the new Audeze MM-500 and Porcupine Tree, lifes good 😎


----------



## incredulousity

I’m not at all suffering with May KTE, GS-X Mk2, and Elite, but am super excited to finally try Envy.


----------



## rev92

ENVY pairs incredibly with the Elite, youre gonna love that combo


----------



## nwavesailor

Fingers crossed for Monday delivery from Upscale!

When I pre-ordered in March I honestly wasn't expecting the Envy to be much better than the Bigger Ben, that I was thrilled with, but it was.
I thought the Susvara were very good paired with the BB and they were. Then the Envy arrived and I now know what a properly driven Sus sounds like.


----------



## LoryWiv

rev92 said:


> Congrats, welcome to the family!
> 
> I’m as usual, sitting here at 2:30 AM after my „I’m gonna listen to Music for an hour” taking 3 hours so far 😂
> 
> Tonight I’m rocking the ENVY with the new Audeze MM-500 and Porcupine Tree, lifes good 😎


Wow @rev92 sounds like you are in an "envy-able" position with your gear. I have a strange question / request: 

Since I am very interested in the MM-500 and my amp. is Feliks Euforia AE, I am concerned the Euforia AE's output impedance of 20Ω will be problematic with the MM-500 noting it's headphone impedance is 18Ω. Feliks does indicate that Euforia is unique and designed to drive low impedance planars, however, which differ from dynamics in this regard. Would you mind trying the MM-500 with Envy on high impedance setting, which is 20Ω output impedance like Euforia AE, and report it it adversely affects the MM-500's sound? I know it's not an exact experiment to predict Euforia AE and MM-500 compatibility, but I'd really be interested in how MM-500 performs with the amp. using high output impedance setting.

Thanks and congrats!


----------



## incredulousity (Aug 26, 2022)

LoryWiv said:


> Wow @rev92 sounds like you are in an "envy-able" position with your gear. I have a strange question / request:
> 
> Since I am very interested in the MM-500 and my amp. is Feliks Euforia AE, I am concerned the Euforia AE's output impedance of 20Ω will be problematic with the MM-500 noting it's headphone impedance is 18Ω. Feliks does indicate that Euforia is unique and designed to drive low impedance planars, however, which differ from dynamics in this regard. Would you mind trying the MM-500 with Envy on high impedance setting, which is 20Ω output impedance like Euforia AE, and report it it adversely affects the MM-500's sound? I know it's not an exact experiment to predict Euforia AE and MM-500 compatibility, but I'd really be interested in how MM-500 performs with the amp. using high output impedance setting.
> 
> Thanks and congrats!


Interesting test idea.

The Euforia AE is able to adequately drive 32Ω planars like the Meze Elite,and Empy, but they are driven more solidly by other amps. I think that 18Ω would be suboptimal. It’s not great with my MEST Indigo IEMs.


----------



## incredulousity

Ok. Ordered the Elrog Mos for Envy. I still will start with the stock tubes. I can’t imagine that they will be used much after breakin, however, between these and the Audio Note 4300Bs. 

Based on my experience with Euforia AE, I actually like the PSVane 6SN7. Those and the Melz kindly sold to me will be a great start. I may still want to try other drivers. Any other current production tubes worth considering? Maybe Linlai Elite?


----------



## nwavesailor

It sounds like you will have the stock 300B (EH orFull Music)  then the AN 4300 as your 'Elrog light' offering and the MO as the top of the line detailed Elrog, NICE!


----------



## incredulousity (Aug 29, 2022)

Yes my stock tubes will be the Full Music.

And update from FedEx:  Envy should arrive today!

We shall see.


Update: It arrived today (Monday). I'll fire it up today after work. 

An hour of warmup before listening? Burn-in schedule recommendation for this amp?


----------



## incredulousity

They sent me the wrong 300B tubes for the Performance model. Hopefully they sent the right amp. No way to tell. Call out to Upscale, who is investigating. No worries. I’ll use AN 4300E instead.


----------



## paradoxper

incredulousity said:


> They sent me the wrong 300B tubes for the Performance model. Hopefully they sent the right amp. No way to tell. Call out to Upscale, who is investigating. No worries. I’ll use AN 4300E instead.


I think you will find the AN 4300E will be just serviceable. Looks great! Feliks GYST.


----------



## incredulousity




----------



## incredulousity (Aug 30, 2022)

sorry. Double post.


----------



## arthurito

incredulousity said:


> They sent me the wrong 300B tubes for the Performance model. Hopefully they sent the right amp. No way to tell. Call out to Upscale, who is investigating. No worries. I’ll use AN 4300E instead.


It’s written on it, check the rings at the tube base. Don’t worry about the small mistake, they will replace the tubes! Enjoy the nirvana!


----------



## incredulousity (Aug 30, 2022)

What’s written on it? All it says is Envy. That clarifies nothing about whether it’s the performance model that I ordered, and for which I paid.

I’m not worried about the tubes that much. They can send me new tubes. I just don’t want to have to wait for the amp all over again, if they shipped the wrong one.


----------



## nwavesailor (Aug 30, 2022)

If you did get the standard version by mistake, would you consider taking the $700 owed you and putting it towards tubes?

My personal decision to opt for the standard version was based in knowing I'd be upgrading the 300B and I also had a number of  6SN7.
I'm not sure the UPOCC is as big an upgrade as rolling tubes but i have not heard both versions so I could be wrong.
_EDIT: I was mistaken regarding the wire used (copper) in both the standard and performance. I know there are folks who test and can 'hear' one solder over another. I doubt I could hear UPOCC, vs the premium wire used in the standard model. _

I'm sure Upscale and Feliks will figure it out!


----------



## arthurito

incredulousity said:


> What’s written on it? All it says is Envy. That clarifies nothing about whether it’s the performance model that I ordered, and for which I paid.
> 
> I’m not worried about the tubes that much. They can send me new tubes. I just don’t want to have to wait for the amp all over again, if they shipped the wrong one.


----------



## arthurito

nwavesailor said:


> If you did get the standard version by mistake, would you consider taking the $700 owed you and putting it towards tubes?
> 
> My personal decision to opt for the standard version was based in knowing I'd be upgrading the 300B and I also had a number of  6SN7.
> I'm not sure the silver internal wire is as big an upgrade as rolling tubes but i have not heard both versions so I could be wrong.
> ...


It’s not silver wiring, instead of premium copper you get UPOCC (single crystal copper) signal wiring


----------



## nwavesailor (Aug 30, 2022)

arthurito said:


> It’s not silver wiring, instead of premium copper you get UPOCC (single crystal copper) signal wiring


YIKES! I forgot it was upgraded copper wire option not silver wire!


----------



## JTbbb

arthurito said:


>


Interesting! I bought the standard version without tubes. Here’s a picture of mine. Hadn’t noticed it before!


----------



## incredulousity (Aug 30, 2022)

Mine does not have that. They sent me the wrong amp.



I’m sure that Upscale will make it right, but it is inconvenient.


----------



## JTbbb

Well, if they want mine back they will have to come along with clubs n sticks 😀. Seriously though, they will get to you the performance edition, whilst you enjoy the one you have at the mo.


----------



## arthurito

JTbbb said:


> Well, if they want mine back they will have to come along with clubs n sticks 😀. Seriously though, they will get to you the performance edition, whilst you enjoy the one you have at the mo.


They probably mixed the two :/


----------



## incredulousity

arthurito said:


> They probably mixed the two :/


Yep. Probably someone out there is enjoying the pleasant surprise of having received erroneously the performance model without the upcharge.


----------



## incredulousity (Aug 30, 2022)

JTbbb said:


> Interesting! I bought the standard version without tubes. Here’s a picture of mine. Hadn’t noticed it before!


Lol. Maybe they sent you mine 

Bonus if you got the Performance upgrade for free. Not so much the other way!

In any case, they (Upscale) are making it right. I will ship the amp back, and they will ship me the correct one as soon as they confirm the other amp being received by FedEx. I already have the label.

But packing it up is such a PITA.


----------



## JTbbb

incredulousity said:


> Lol. Maybe they sent you mine
> 
> Bonus if you got the Performance upgrade for free. Not so much the other way!
> 
> ...


Glad it’s being sorted.


----------



## ThanatosVI

incredulousity said:


> Lol. Maybe they sent you mine
> 
> Bonus if you got the Performance upgrade for free. Not so much the other way!
> 
> ...


It's nice that they correct the issue.
However considering the huge money they earn with you as a customer I'd expect them to ship the correct one first and letting you keep the wrong one until the right one arrives.

This way you will have to wait several days without amp just because they ****ed it up.


----------



## incredulousity

ThanatosVI said:


> It's nice that they correct the issue.
> However considering the huge money they earn with you as a customer I'd expect them to ship the correct one first and letting you keep the wrong one until the right one arrives.
> 
> This way you will have to wait several days without amp just because they ****ed it up.


I agree with you, however they felt otherwise. Everyone factor that in, when you choose from where to order your Envy!

The primary problem, per Upscale was caused by a Feliks/customs declaration error, and Upscale expediently sent me the package, without verifying its contents. They assure me that the replacement, which they claim to have on hand, is the correct one. I will believe it when I see it.

I guess on the plus side, I will be one of the few people who actually will have the chance to hear both models, albeit not side-by-side.


----------



## arthurito

I mean we’re all human, don’t judge a person/company by one mistake, think about how many mistakes you make. As long as they admit and honor it, it’s ok, although annoying, especially with such long waiting times.


----------



## Toonartist (Aug 31, 2022)

arthurito said:


> I mean we’re all human, don’t judge a person/company by one mistake, think about how many mistakes you make. As long as they admit and honor it, it’s ok, although annoying, especially with such long waiting times.


“By one mistake” hummm 🤔

I think there have been a few 5 weeks turning into 12weeks or more. Personally, I'll no longer be owning an Envy now & that doesn’t trouble me.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Chalk another issue up to Feliks...


----------



## incredulousity

Even the standard version sounds incredible, at least with the AN 4300E tubes! Now to cool it off and pack it. Ugh.


----------



## nwavesailor

incredulousity said:


> Even the standard version sounds incredible, at least with the AN 4300E tubes! Now to cool it off and pack it. Ugh.


I'm happy that you will get the version you ordered waited for and paid for @incredulousity .
I doubt that I could hear the difference in the standard version with 'premium' copper wire or the performance version with the UPOCC copper but I guess I'll never know.

 I _DO _know the standard version sounds very good with the EH gold and fantastic with the Elrogs.


----------



## incredulousity

The cluster…. saga continues. 

The FedEx local drop off site could not take the package due to size and weight limitations. So I will try to have the FedEx driver at work take it tomorrow.


----------



## turbofeet

incredulousity said:


> I agree with you, however they felt otherwise. Everyone factor that in, when you choose from where to order your Envy!
> 
> The primary problem, per Upscale was caused by a Feliks/customs declaration error, and Upscale expediently sent me the package, without verifying its contents. They assure me that the replacement, which they claim to have on hand, is the correct one. I will believe it when I see it.
> 
> I guess on the plus side, I will be one of the few people who actually will have the chance to hear both models, albeit not side-by-side.


I bet the standard one still sounds awesome and at least they have the other one in stock.

Hopefully they'll send the correct one out as soon as the other one is in transit.


----------



## incredulousity

Envy is off! I should get the correct one early next week.


----------



## nwavesailor

NICE!

Glad to see your Fed-Ex driver took the beast and getting it back to CA.


----------



## DesignTaylor

Are upscale audio and headphones.com the only US dealers?


----------



## incredulousity

DesignTaylor said:


> Are upscale audio and headphones.com the only US dealers?


As far as I know, yes.


----------



## DesignTaylor (Sep 1, 2022)

Long shot I know, but does anyone have experience comparing the Envy to any other prominent 300B based HP amps?

ampsandsound Agartha or Red October
Cayin HA-300
Eddie Current Studio B
Woo Audio WA5 300B
thanks!


----------



## ThanatosVI

DesignTaylor said:


> Long shot I know, but does anyone have experience comparing the Envy to any other prominent 300B based HP amps? Specifically the ampsandsound Agartha or Red October? Or that Cayin HA-300? Or Eddie Current Studio B?
> 
> thanks!


I couldn't personally compare them, but I read that the Cayin is a little tubier and more rounded on the frequency extremes than the Envy.

The Envy is a little more neutral with better bass and treble extension.

I do believe the comparison Was with the same tubes,  but I can't find the post anymore so take it with an extra grain of salt


----------



## Newsee

DesignTaylor said:


> Long shot I know, but does anyone have experience comparing the Envy to any other prominent 300B based HP amps?
> 
> ampsandsound Agartha or Red October
> Cayin HA-300
> ...



What sounds like "ttu - ttu - ttu" on this:






sounds like "bloop - bloop - bloop' on this:





(Impressions from High-end Munnich 2022)


----------



## ThanatosVI

Newsee said:


> What sounds like "ttu - ttu - ttu" on this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was so envious until you said those are high end munich 2022 impressions.


----------



## moosemp

Envy with Spirit Torino Valkyria Titanium is endgame. But tomorrow something interesting will come


----------



## SlothRock

That tube glow is INSANE!! Beautiful


----------



## incredulousity (Sep 1, 2022)

moosemp said:


> Envy with Spirit Torino Valkyria Titanium is endgame. But tomorrow something interesting will come


Are those the WEs?

Nevermind. Yes they are. Such a lovely blue glow. Likely not my sound profile, though.


----------



## moosemp

WE were put to box for some time, brand new ELROG 300B warm up. From The very beginning absolutelu satisfactory, with much more tube bliss than others. It will take few weeks to draw conclusions, but I stroniły belive it is my kind of sound.  300B Molibden version will follow. Many thanks to Polish distributor!


----------



## incredulousity

moosemp said:


> WE were put to box for some time, brand new ELROG 300B warm up. From The very beginning absolutelu satisfactory, with much more tube bliss than others. It will take few weeks to draw conclusions, but I stroniły belive it is my kind of sound.  300B Molibden version will follow. Many thanks to Polish distributor!


Looks like my Elrog Mo come today. Envy next week.


----------



## incredulousity

Update: the Envy I returned was received by Upscale Audio today at 12:40. Let’s see how long it takes them to send out the replacement!

For the record, I do not find it acceptable that they did not ship the replacement immediately, given the nature of their error.


----------



## ThanatosVI

incredulousity said:


> Update: the Envy I returned was received by Upscale Audio today at 12:40. Let’s see how long it takes them to send out the replacement!
> 
> For the record, I do not find it acceptable that they did not ship the replacement immediately, given the nature of their error.


Yeah upscale audio really doesn't act like a good dealer for high end audio here.

Errors can happen, but it really comes down to how you handle it if they do


----------



## incredulousity (Sep 7, 2022)

Received shipping info. Should have it Friday 

Also, they gave me a $250 gift certificate as an apology. Perhaps I’ll spend it on some “throwaway” Gold Lion 300B tubes there, since they have no 6SN7s that I would want, and not much else there in that price range that interests me.


----------



## moosemp

Spirit Torino Valkyria/ENVY ELROG normal- much more tubey sound that with RIVIERA/G73.Softer, sweeter, more rounded, no edginess, fantastic 3D scene, full extension on both ends, dynamics, microscopic wiev of nuances, no exagerration.


----------



## incredulousity

The replacement is the correct one! Also, they did give me a $250 gift certificate for my inconvenience. 

As before, installed the AudioNote 4300Es from @paradoxper and the PSVanes that came with the amp. 

Initial impression is that this specimen is sanded smoother than the standard version was. Tubes are warming up while I’m out running errands and getting lunch. The suspense is killing me.


----------



## arthurito

incredulousity said:


> The replacement is the correct one! Also, they did give me a $250 gift certificate for my inconvenience.
> 
> As before, installed the AudioNote 4300Es from @paradoxper and the PSVanes that came with the amp.
> 
> Initial impression is that this specimen is sanded smoother than the standard version was. Tubes are warming up while I’m out running errands and getting lunch. The suspense is killing me.


Good to see you’re sorted! Enjoy


----------



## turbofeet

incredulousity said:


> The replacement is the correct one! Also, they did give me a $250 gift certificate for my inconvenience.
> 
> As before, installed the AudioNote 4300Es from @paradoxper and the PSVanes that came with the amp.
> 
> Initial impression is that this specimen is sanded smoother than the standard version was. Tubes are warming up while I’m out running errands and getting lunch. The suspense is killing me.


Looking forward to your thoughts.


----------



## asaprod

So beautiful!!


----------



## incredulousity

turbofeet said:


> Looking forward to your thoughts.


At 3 hours, it sounds excellent. But so did the standard version. Most of my audio memory is of 18-24 hours on the other one. Will update then. I expect the differences will be beneath the threshold of detection for my audio memory. But I can easily hear the difference among cables, so time will tell.

The PSVanes in my experience with Euforia AE needed >100 hours, but that was new amp too at the time.


----------



## OctavianH

I wonder if your posts or House of the Dragon ep4 is the thing I wait most.


----------



## Newsee

Something mystical is hiding there ...


----------



## Deceneu808

Newsee said:


> Something mystical is hiding there ...


Need more


----------



## incredulousity

Newsee said:


> Something mystical is hiding there ...


I’ve seen that twice before!


----------



## K3cT

incredulousity said:


> The replacement is the correct one! Also, they did give me a $250 gift certificate for my inconvenience.
> 
> As before, installed the AudioNote 4300Es from @paradoxper and the PSVanes that came with the amp.
> 
> Initial impression is that this specimen is sanded smoother than the standard version was. Tubes are warming up while I’m out running errands and getting lunch. The suspense is killing me.



Looking forward to your impressions! Hopefully there are some comparisons with the GS-X. 

The Envy is in the same price range as the Telemachus which is hugely impressive also so I wonder how they compare.


----------



## Newsee

Deceneu808 said:


> Need more


Let's start from the beginning, I prefer it chronological. Part1: unboxing. 

It comes in a huge (59x51x34 cm) double-box both Feliks-Audio sealed:




Inside everything is organized by semi-hard foam structure:




Uncovered: parts in 4 foam compartments, the one not visible holds the 300Bs. Below the qobuz 3 months trial paper is the power cable.




The smaller tubes:




The bigger tubes are numbered as 2 and 3. This numbering does not make sense at the moment, as there is no numbering on the chassis, and no instruction with picture about numbering included it the box. I have not found downloadable version on the Feliks site either.

Removing the compartments makes the mystery visible. I like this geometry.





Foam ribs removed:




Envy removed from the box:




This makes sense to the foam pattern above. Distance of the middle of the legs ~21.6cm:




Finally, some naked woodwork:




From perspective, still tubeless:




End of Part1.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Newsee said:


> Let's start from the beginning, I prefer it chronological. Part1: unboxing.
> 
> It comes in a huge (59x51x34 cm) double-box both Feliks-Audio sealed:
> 
> ...


Looks extremely satisfying to unbox


----------



## incredulousity (Sep 16, 2022)

OMG 🙀

Rolled in the Melz 1578 from @paradoxper, along with the Elrog 300B Mo. This is an amazing combination. The Melz are definitely different and better than the very good PSVanes. This probably becomes the default config for me, until the used NOS Melz die of natural causes. Hopefully someone makes modern good tubes to replace them, when the time comes. Any good current production 6SN7 tubes better than PSVane CV181-T Mk ii worth trying?

In any case, Envy has gone from the best tube amp I’ve ever heard, to the best amp I could imagine wanting.


----------



## ThanatosVI

incredulousity said:


> OMG 🙀
> 
> Rolled in the Melz 1578 from @paradoxper, along with the Elrog 300B Mo. This is an amazing combination. The Melz are definitely different and better than the very good PSVanes. This probably becomes the default config for me, until the used NOS Melz die of natural causes. Hopefully someone makes modern good tubes to replace them, when the time comes. Any good current production 6SN7 tubes better than PSVane CV181-T Mk ii worth trying?


Wait for Q1 2023 when Western Electric plans to release their 6SN7


----------



## incredulousity

That will be a long wait, but I’m sure worth it. I doubt I’ll kill the Melz before then, so I’ll live.


----------



## paradoxper

incredulousity said:


> OMG 🙀
> 
> Rolled in the Melz 1578 from @paradoxper, along with the Elrog 300B Mo. This is an amazing combination. The Melz are definitely different and better than the very good PSVanes. This probably becomes the default config for me, until the used NOS Melz die of natural causes. Hopefully someone makes modern good tubes to replace them, when the time comes. Any good current production 6SN7 tubes better than PSVane CV181-T Mk ii worth trying?


It is amazing. You are all set to let it rip.


----------



## turbofeet

incredulousity said:


> OMG 🙀
> 
> Rolled in the Melz 1578 from @paradoxper, along with the Elrog 300B Mo. This is an amazing combination. The Melz are definitely different and better than the very good PSVanes. This probably becomes the default config for me, until the used NOS Melz die of natural causes. Hopefully someone makes modern good tubes to replace them, when the time comes. Any good current production 6SN7 tubes better than PSVane CV181-T Mk ii worth trying?
> 
> In any case, Envy has gone from the best tube amp I’ve ever heard, to the best amp I could imagine wanting.


I'm not an expert on tube amps but that thing absolutely blew me away even with the Performance tubes.

Will definitely invest in some Elrogs as well.

Enjoy it! Glad it's living up to your expectations sir.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

ThanatosVI said:


> Wait for Q1 2023 when Western Electric plans to release their 6SN7


Orly?!?!


----------



## Newsee

ThanatosVI said:


> Looks extremely satisfying to unbox


Yes, it is. Not only to unbox.

First impressions:
1. It Is Heavy. (22 kg brutto) Especially taking it upstairs.🏋
2. It smells like wood protecting hard oil. I guess it will fade away with time.
3. It is heavy even without packaging. Over 16 kg.
4. It is beautiful. The wood brings a piece of nature into the look.
5. The red script on white background on the neck of the Full music © tubes disturbs the picture. The ones with golden script on white background or golden background with no script that I saw was a better match. 
6. The big tubes are bringing some effects that I have not experienced so far with small tubes, at least not to this extent:
-the smallest mechanical impact on the 300Bs results in a loud ringing bell sound in the headphones. It includes the self inflicted clickings during heat up period. You can feel yourself in a carillon 🔔🔔🔔. I see now why my friend put his tube amp on a thick metal base with flexible suspension.
-the recessed sockets look good, but make me question if I am brave enough to remove the tubes holding them by the glas part.


----------



## incredulousity

The grates make the night images less satisfying, but Elrog Mo + Melz 1578.


----------



## ThanatosVI

incredulousity said:


> The grates make the night images less satisfying, but Elrog Mo + Melz 1578.


I like them, they have style


----------



## paradoxper

incredulousity said:


> The grates make the night images less satisfying, but Elrog Mo + Melz 1578.


This is joy.


----------



## Newsee

First sound impressions:

Oh, my...

"Drums Stop, No Good" by Steve Smith https://open.qobuz.com/track/79565389

First I thought, it sounds better on my MHA200. But - add a bit of juice, and the race is decided. On the Envy, like there is no limit for power.


----------



## rev92

Has anyone tried the Envy with DCA Stealth/Expanse?


----------



## Arcamera

Does anyone here have experience comparing the Envy with the Woo WA33, or WA23 Luna? Thanks.


----------



## MichalZZZZ

Same question here. Someone compared Envy to the WA33?


----------



## 1Audiophool

MichalZZZZ said:


> Same question here. Someone compared Envy to the WA33?


I compared all of them at Canjam and really don’t have much to say that will be meaningfull or helpful. Show conditions were very difficult to get clear impressions.
I preferred the WA23 over the 33 sound wise. I couldn’t get over the aesthetics of the 23 though. The gold accents looked very plasticky to me. I just straight out hated how it looks so much it ruled it out for me. May seem silly but for that kind of money I don’t want to hate how my amp looks. 🤷 Sounds fantastic with Susvara in general though😁 

I ended up getting Envy. Should be here tomorrow. I’ll know more soon.


----------



## ThanatosVI

1Audiophool said:


> I compared all of them at Canjam and really don’t have much to say that will be meaningfull or helpful. Show conditions were very difficult to get clear impressions.
> I preferred the WA23 over the 33 sound wise. I couldn’t get over the aesthetics of the 23 though. The gold accents looked very plasticky to me. I just straight out hated how it looks so much it ruled it out for me. May seem silly but for that kind of money I don’t want to hate how my amp looks. 🤷 Sounds fantastic with Susvara in general though😁
> 
> I ended up getting Envy. Should be here tomorrow. I’ll know more soon.


Yeah I usually really like the aesthetics of Woo Amps (Wa22, Wa33, 3ES...) but the Luna was a huge misstep imo.


----------



## 1Audiophool

1Audiophool said:


> I compared all of them at Canjam and really don’t have much to say that will be meaningfull or helpful. Show conditions were very difficult to get clear impressions.
> I preferred the WA23 over the 33 sound wise. I couldn’t get over the aesthetics of the 23 though. The gold accents looked very plasticky to me. I just straight out hated how it looks so much it ruled it out for me. May seem silly but for that kind of money I don’t want to hate how my amp looks. 🤷 Sounds fantastic with Susvara in general though😁
> 
> I ended up getting Envy. Should be here tomorrow. I’ll know more soon.


Let me add this….since I couldn’t get clear sound impressions the deciding factor for me between Envy and WA33 was the cost of tube upgrades. The 33 is significantly more costly to go totl on tubes. Whatever the sonic differences or whether it would even be better …who knows. The Envy is just more manageable for me tube wise and sounded fantastic. Maybe I’m losing a minor % in performance over the Woo amps, maybe not. Not enough of a difference for me to worry about 😁


----------



## incredulousity (Sep 26, 2022)

Ok… I did the experiment. Someone had to 😂

Triode-strapped beam tetrodes don’t work with Envy, unlike in the 6SN7 slots on Euforia AE and its siblings. Tried two sets of KT88 with appropriate @Deyan adapters. Only produced sound in the left channel. Did not change with reversal of tubes, or with swap to different pair. I guess Envy needs at least dual triodes in the 6SN7 slots, and uses half of both tubes to feed each channel.

So… no one needs to try this again, but no amplifiers or tubes were injured in the name of science.

I guess I can sell all my KTxx and my ГУ50 stuff, adapters, power supplies, etc, since Envy is my endgame tube amp. Or, once you go 300b, you don’t go back! Or at least I don’t.

Perhaps other dual triodes, tetrodes, pentodes with appropriate adapters and external power would work, but I lack that technology.


----------



## OctavianH

incredulousity said:


> Ok… I did the experiment. Someone had to 😂
> 
> Triode-strapped beam tetrodes don’t work with Envy, unlike in the 6SN7 slots on Euforia AE and its siblings. Tried two sets of KT88 with appropriate @Deyan adapters. Only produced sound in the left channel. Did not change with reversal of tubes, or with swap to different pair. I guess Envy needs at least dual triodes in the 6SN7 slots, and uses half of both tubes to feed each channel.


On Elise/Euforia the internal triodes were in parallel. Envy is balanced and both internal triodes are used for their own purpose. So take care not to damage your amps while using those adapters in Envy. It is not the same situation even if both are 6SN7.


----------



## incredulousity

Exactly. No damage occurred, but one side was starved for signal. Any adapted tubes in this amp would have to function as dual triodes. This precludes use of many of the tubes that were popular on Elise/Euforia.


----------



## zen87192

Is anyone running an LCD-5 through the Envy? Your thoughts please before I press the button.


----------



## incredulousity

zen87192 said:


> Is anyone running an LCD-5 through the Envy? Your thoughts please before I press the button.


No, but Envy can drive every headphone on the planet, and everything I have sounds better on it than on anything else. I would not worry about it. Tube roll to tweak sound, if you feel the need. Someone with LCD-5 can probably suggest good choices.


----------



## DesignTaylor

I'm curious what the most efficient headphone you guys have paired with your Envy? Do you pick up on any background noise from the tubes or transformers?


----------



## incredulousity

Meze Elite and UM MEST Indigo IEMs.

They pick up hum at any volume on med and high settings, absent or inaudible with music playing. Low is the right setting for these devices, where no noise at all can be heard unless almost full volume with nothing playing, and 8-10 o clock is the usual volume for these headphones.

So… not a meaningful issue. Less so still for higher impedance/less sensitive phones.


----------



## JTbbb

DesignTaylor said:


> I'm curious what the most efficient headphone you guys have paired with your Envy? Do you pick up on any background noise from the tubes or transformers?


HD800S and Utopia’s 

Both are used on low setting. IF I put a driver tube in which has a marginal hum in the Senn’s, it is marginally louder in the Utopia’s. But of course, disappears once music starts.


----------



## paradoxper

incredulousity said:


> I guess I can sell all my KTxx and my ГУ50 stuff, adapters, power supplies, etc, since Envy is my endgame tube amp. Or, once you go 300b, you don’t go back! Or at least I don’t.


Elrog baby!


----------



## incredulousity

For the 6SN7 slot?! I’ll believe it when I see it. You know I already have the 300B Mo Elrogs!


----------



## paradoxper

incredulousity said:


> For the 6SN7 slot?! I’ll believe it when I see it. You know I already have the 300B Mo Elrogs!


There is no going back!!!


----------



## incredulousity

I’m just glad that I already have the May KTE, so I’m not tempted like some people to invest in a 300B tube DAC that  would clearly demand 4 more 300B Elrog Mo tubes!

And also that I am not interested in 2 channel at all!


----------



## paradoxper

incredulousity said:


> I’m just glad that I already have the May KTE, so I’m not tempted like some people to invest in a 300B tube DAC that  would clearly demand 4 more 300B Elrog Mo tubes!
> 
> And also that I am not interested in 2 channel at all!


I think 300B tube DACs are the future! It's so good.


----------



## incredulousity

Yes. But also so is May, fortunately. Very fortunately!


----------



## paradoxper

incredulousity said:


> Yes. But also so is May, fortunately. Very fortunately!


It is. I just suffer from DHT corruption.


----------



## incredulousity (Sep 27, 2022)

The main stack will be Envy, May, KTE, and soon, but not soon enough, Bliss. Also with all Hapa Audio cables/interconnects. We all have silly things we burn money on, especially in this and the other 300B threads!

I need to get the 1578 out for reflowing this week. The PSVane tubes' weaknesses are highlighted by the Elrog Mos. They sound better with the AN4300E 300B tubes. The Elrog Mos are absolutely, brutally transparent.

I dislike the term _synergy_, as it is used in audiophile circles. People tend to use it to describe the process of using different equipnment with non-overlapping weaknesses, to create a whole that sucks less than it would otherwise, sum still  <1, if the components had similar weaknesses. On the low end, I think this is a valid use. Once you get to mid-fi and up, you are really trying to add the strengths of your components, to reach a greater sum. (>1). Not that this nonsense can be quantitated in a meaningfully audio-correlative way.

Ordered Linlai Elite and the Shugang "WE" with the red base to try as new production options, whilst I await the real WE 6SN7 options nest year.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

paradoxper said:


> Elrog baby!


You are singing the song of my people!


----------



## incredulousity

Your people is an enlarging tribe.

Go team Elrog!

So say we all...


----------



## ColSaulTigh

incredulousity said:


> Your people is an enlarging tribe.
> 
> Go team Elrog!
> 
> *So say we all...*


----------



## incredulousity

I'm sure I'm not the only person here who appreciates your HeadFi handle.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

incredulousity said:


> I'm sure I'm not the only person here who appreciates your HeadFi handle.


Actually, you're the first to mention it.

He was my favorite character of the show - but I love flawed characters in general.


----------



## incredulousity (Sep 27, 2022)

It appears that my Shugang 6SN7 tubes were picked up by my wife at the post office just now!

Has to be a new record for AliExpress.... <10 days.

Maybe they are better than the PSVane.... I can hope.


----------



## paradoxper

incredulousity said:


> The main stack will be Envy, May, KTE, and soon, but not soon enough, Bliss. Also with all Hapa Audio cables/interconnects. We all have silly things we burn money on, especially in this and the other 300B threads!
> 
> I need to get the 1578 out for reflowing this week. The PSVane tubes' weaknesses are highlighted by the Elrog Mos. They sound better with the AN4300E 300B tubes. The Elrog Mos are absolutely, brutally transparent.
> 
> ...


You will be at a endgame. I think I may end up going all DHT.

I haven't heard a better 6SN7 and feel with Elrogs accompanied by TC, it's a goldilocks complement.

Share your thoughts on the Elite although I fear no current production are close to NOS. Hopefully WE or maybe Elrog can shake things up.


----------



## normie610

incredulousity said:


> Ordered Linlai Elite and the Shugang "WE" with the red base to try as new production options, whilst I await the real WE 6SN7 options nest year.


I have both but the 6SL7 ones. Linlai is fantastic but the Shuguang WE is a little thin sounding. Perhaps it’ll be a different case with Envy.


----------



## incredulousity

The Linlai Elite will be a few more days or weeks. Will update when those come too.


----------



## incredulousity

normie610 said:


> I have both but the 6SL7 ones. Linlai is fantastic but the Shuguang WE is a little thin sounding. Perhaps it’ll be a different case with Envy.


That does not bode well for pairing with Elrog Mo.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Has anyone tried 6F8G's w/adapters in the Envy yet?


----------



## nwavesailor (Sep 27, 2022)

ColSaulTigh said:


> Has anyone tried 6F8G's w/adapters in the Envy yet?


Yup!
TSRP and National Union. Close to or perhaps equal to the 6SN7 TSRP.
The 1578 and Raytheon VT-231 / 6SN7 (JAN CRP) are very nice too. Running the Raytheons with the Elrogs right now


----------



## incredulousity (Sep 27, 2022)

Bow down before the almighty Chinesium 6SN7s! These guys look weird, and are very tall. 

OOB, they sound better than the PSVanes did when new. We will see what happens to them after 20 and 100 hours.

The PSVanes are detailed, but dry and somewhat sterile. They pair poorly with the Elrog 300B Mo which are beautifully and brutally transparent, detailed, and fast.


----------



## normie610

incredulousity said:


> Bow down before the almighty Chinesium 6SN7s! These guys look weird, and are very tall.
> 
> OOB, they sound better than the PSVanes did when new. We will see what happens to them after 20 and 100 hours.
> 
> The PSVanes are detailed, but dry and somewhat sterile. They pair poorly with the Elrog 300B Mo which are beautifully and brutally transparent, detailed, and fast.


The Linlais will be more voluminous than that 😁


----------



## incredulousity

C


normie610 said:


> The Linlais will be more voluminous than that 😁


So I hear. 






One more…


----------



## Galapac

What is the warranty on the Elrog’s?
WE has a 5 year warranty if you sign up after receiving them.


----------



## nwavesailor

1 year on the Elrogs


----------



## moosemp

paradoxper said:


> It is. I just suffer from DHT corruption.


check this
http://hifiknights.com/reviews/sources/audio-phonique-dac-dht/


----------



## Galapac

moosemp said:


> check this
> http://hifiknights.com/reviews/sources/audio-phonique-dac-dht/


Priced at €40’000  
It is a beast though, would love to hear it but doubt I could ever afford it.


----------



## incredulousity

Update on the Shugang red base 6SN7s:

Though my initial impressions were good, and the sound improved even over the first few hours, after the first four hours, they developed a loud hum in the right channel, not completely absent with music, even at moderate listening levels. Reseating/swapping positions of the tubes did not resolve the issue. I wonder if they need to be resoldered too? Obviously unacceptable for brand new tubes. Too bad, since I actually was enjoying them.


----------



## incredulousity

moosemp said:


> check this
> http://hifiknights.com/reviews/sources/audio-phonique-dac-dht/


I'd buy $100k speakers before I'd buy a $40k DAC.

Not that I could ever afford either!


----------



## paradoxper

moosemp said:


> check this
> http://hifiknights.com/reviews/sources/audio-phonique-dac-dht/


I have seen this as I contemplate bringing in a Pacific DAC to compare (I'm quite curious to tube vs solid state rectification). my big issue is the price is a bit silly if they would have employed all Hashimoto transformer and chokes, I could lean in a bit but that's the nature of bespoke. Seeing how favorable my XT compares to the Berkeley Reference 3, I may lack a little motivation for such future expense. Hard to resist the temptation. Ha.


----------



## zen87192

Envy Performance in Oak ordered today…. ETA 3 weeks…. Exciting. Looking forward to hearing it in its ‘stock’ form but will no doubt be looking at Tube rolling the 300B’s for some WE’s (don’t tell the Wife!) With regards to the 6SN7’s I’ll keep reading the experts here to see what grabs my attention. Looking forward to joining the club soon.


----------



## turbofeet

zen87192 said:


> Envy Performance in Oak ordered today…. ETA 3 weeks…. Exciting. Looking forward to hearing it in its ‘stock’ form but will no doubt be looking at Tube rolling the 300B’s for some WE’s (don’t tell the Wife!) With regards to the 6SN7’s I’ll keep reading the experts here to see what grabs my attention. Looking forward to joining the club soon.


I'm told mine should be completed tomorrow and then making its way to the UK from Poland next week.

I spent 3hrs with it and loved the stock performance Full Music tubes.

I have Elrogs on my shopping list as well though 😲

Oh dear...


----------



## zen87192

turbofeet said:


> I'm told mine should be completed tomorrow and then making its way to the UK from Poland next week.
> 
> I spent 3hrs with it and loved the stock performance Full Music tubes.
> 
> ...


Excellent… what finish did you go for? And May I ask where you may be buying your Elrogs from?


----------



## turbofeet

zen87192 said:


> Excellent… what finish did you go for? And May I ask where you may be buying your Elrogs from?


Just went for performance in Oak.

In the UK I think there is only one distributer I could find:

https://www.mcru.co.uk/product/elrog-er300b-triode-valve-tube/?v=79cba1185463

I think I'll prefer those to the "ER300B-MO" version after reading a Stereonet review but it would be nice to hear both really.


----------



## zen87192

Thank you for the link for the Elrogs.
I need to read plenty of reviews on both the Elrogs snd Western Electric 300B (new version) from owners and testers.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Does anyone know if the Envy can power the LCD-R directly?


----------



## JTbbb

zen87192 said:


> Thank you for the link for the Elrogs.
> I need to read plenty of reviews on both the Elrogs snd Western Electric 300B (new version) from owners and testers


This place has them too.

https://www.selectaudio.co.uk/brands/


----------



## paradoxper

JTbbb said:


> This place has them too.
> 
> https://www.selectaudio.co.uk/brands/


That is the Distributor for MCRU and they are great to work with.


----------



## ufospls2

paradoxper said:


> I have seen this as I contemplate bringing in a Pacific DAC to compare (I'm quite curious to tube vs solid state rectification). my big issue is the price is a bit silly if they would have employed all Hashimoto transformer and chokes, I could lean in a bit but that's the nature of bespoke. Seeing how favorable my XT compares to the Berkeley Reference 3, I may lack a little motivation for such future expense. Hard to resist the temptation. Ha.


There are some Pacific DACs in various finishes on Lampizators pre owned page, I'm assuming from owners who moved to the Horizon. Just in case you wanted to save some coin. I think there may also be a Pacific 2 coming using some of the stuff going on in the Horizon.

https://www.lampizatorpoland.com/pre-owned


----------



## nwavesailor

ColSaulTigh said:


> Has anyone tried 6F8G's w/adapters in the Envy yet?


----------



## OctavianH

Damn, you have started rolling on Envy and it is so sexy. I love it. This was what it had to be done, guys.


----------



## JTbbb

Has anyone run new production WE’s in the Envy yet?


----------



## zen87192 (Oct 1, 2022)

nwavesailor said:


>


What does it sound like? Did I spot the edge of a DAVE? If so, this will be most appropriate as I will also be running  DAVE to the Envy. My Envy is on the way so stock sound vs upgrade will be most appreciated via the DAVE.


----------



## ThanatosVI

nwavesailor said:


>


Why does it look soo good in every picture?
A dream of an amp


----------



## moosemp

JTbbb said:


> Has anyone run new production WE’s in the Envy yet?


I gave it some 20 hours with ENVY, then switched to Elrog 300b that just arrived and grabed my attention from the very first moment. And from that moment on I listen to Elrog. But I will soon come back when Elrog is fully warmed up and I will be able to eveluate it in longer time period. 
In WE I toroughly enjoyed its speed and sense of power mysteriously connected with delicacy, and precision, creation of 3D space, without too much of "tubey" sound,
Both brands will remain in my collection, further remarks will follow


----------



## moosemp

ThanatosVI said:


> Why does it look soo good in every picture?
> A dream of an amp


yes, it is a dream amp. Glowing in the dark, music in full bliss


----------



## zen87192

moosemp said:


> I gave it some 20 hours with ENVY, then switched to Elrog 300b that just arrived and grabed my attention from the very first moment.


May I ask the differences between the Full Music 'stock' tubes and the Elrogs please?


----------



## moosemp (Oct 1, 2022)

zen87192 said:


> May I ask the differences between the Full Music 'stock' tubes and the Elrogs please?


The most obvious difference is that Full Music is more straightforward, when Elrog seems to me as more mysterious, without loosing any attributes like fantastic 3D picture and enormous details ammount. Both tubes IMHO are excellent, as usually choice is yours  FM is absolutely good enough to enjoy Envy, drives HPs like ZMF or Utopia very well. When you set higher "gain" listening with Abyss 1266 is pure pleasure too. FM are also dead quiet, but after turning on it takes more time for them to stop 'clicking', although I clearly recommend some 15 min minimal to warm up before listening. And it is also cheaper.      In the end you will need WE and Elrog I think.

p.s.
I completely enjoyed your fantastic report form Can Jam in California, hope to join in 2023


----------



## moosemp

Very interesting review of full DCS Lina setup and its parts by Fidelio- Musicalhead, with comparisons to ENVY and Chord Dave (among others), stuff that some of us use everyday

I used google to translate from German to Polish- very good result, with English will be no problem too

https://musicalhead.de/2022/08/19/test-dcs-lina/


----------



## incredulousity

moosemp said:


> Very interesting review of full DCS Lina setup and its parts by Fidelio- Musicalhead, with comparisons to ENVY and Chord Dave (among others), stuff that some of us use everyday
> 
> I used google to translate from German to Polish- very good result, with English will be no problem too
> 
> https://musicalhead.de/2022/08/19/test-dcs-lina/


Long and very worthwhile read. 

Makes me even happier with what I have.





Also, rolled in the Linlai Elite 6SN7 with the Elrog 300B Mo. Liking it so far. The Linlai are improving steadily, so I have no idea where they will end up; this after only 16-18 hours. Also, they didn’t fail after 4 hours like the Shuguang.


----------



## nwavesailor

zen87192 said:


> What does it sound like? Did I spot the edge of a DAVE? If so, this will be most appropriate as I will also be running  DAVE to the Envy. My Envy is on the way so stock sound vs upgrade will be most appreciated via the DAVE.



Close to or perhaps as good as the big $ TSRP 6SN7. Good eye on the Dave!!!!


----------



## turbofeet

Any Envy owners notice much difference after burn in (brain or otherwise) or is it phenomenal right out of thr box?

Mine arrives Thursday. 

Got some second hand (200hrs) Elrogs too for £499 but will try them after some burn in of the Full Music. They were manufactured in 2015 before they collapsed and were bought out and so might sound a little different to the newer ones?


----------



## paradoxper

turbofeet said:


> Any Envy owners notice much difference after burn in (brain or otherwise) or is it phenomenal right out of thr box?
> 
> Mine arrives Thursday.
> 
> Got some second hand (200hrs) Elrogs too for £499 but will try them after some burn in of the Full Music. They were manufactured in 2015 before they collapsed and were bought out and so might sound a little different to the newer ones?


Be very careful with those Elrogs as they are very likely to fail on you due to the poor electrode design before Thomas took over and changed this.


----------



## turbofeet

paradoxper said:


> Be very careful with those Elrogs as they are very likely to fail on you due to the poor electrode design before Thomas took over and changed this.


Thanks I'll bear that in mind. When they fail do they just pop and stop working?


----------



## paradoxper

turbofeet said:


> Thanks I'll bear that in mind. When they fail do they just pop and stop working?


Best case they'll take out a fuse but it's possible they do damage.


----------



## turbofeet

Hmm I see thanks!


----------



## paradoxper

turbofeet said:


> Hmm I see thanks!


Thomas heard I was using one of the brass base Elrogs (this the last run under his supervision) and reached out to advise me it's a bad idea to use the older generation.
You might reach out to him and discuss the design parameters of Envy and what condition they would fail under to mitigate high risk. I would do so, prudently.


----------



## JTbbb (Oct 5, 2022)

A pair of Takatsuki 300B’s have just been advertised on hifishark. I can attest to them sounding great in Envy.

$1000 austinpop


----------



## incredulousity

Update on the Linlai Elites: have developed beautiful mids and bass, great soundstage and imaging. More tubey than the Melz 1578. They lack the last bit of treble extension of the Melz, but are still improving. Paired with Elrog Mo, they are my second favorite now. They might be too gooey with stock tubes, or AN4300E, but I haven't tried. PSVane may be better for those.


----------



## ThanatosVI

incredulousity said:


> Update on the Linlai Elites: have developed beautiful mids and bass, great soundstage and imaging. More tubey than the Melz 1578. They lack the last bit of treble extension of the Melz, but are still improving. Paired with Elrog Mo, they are my second favorite now. They might be too gooey with stock tubes, or AN4300E, but I haven't tried. PSVane may be better for those.


Sounds interesting, thx for the impressions


----------



## 1Audiophool

JTbbb said:


> A pair of Takatsuki 300B’s have just been advertised on hifishark. I can attest to them sounding great in Envy.
> 
> $1000 austinpop


Dang…gone already 🥹


----------



## ColSaulTigh

1Audiophool said:


> Dang…gone already 🥹


Great tubes, btw.  Probably my 2nd favorites behind my beloved Elrog's.


----------



## 1Audiophool

ColSaulTigh said:


> Great tubes, btw.  Probably my 2nd favorites behind my beloved Elrog's.


I need to figure out how to get the Elrog Mos. Have a pair of Melz 6sn7 arriving in a few days… Elrogs are my next thing to get.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

1Audiophool said:


> I need to figure out how to get the Elrog Mos. Have a pair of Melz 6sn7 arriving in a few days… Elrogs are my next thing to get.


Order them from Parts Connexion - they'll put an order in for you, they usually arrive within 30 days.


----------



## incredulousity

I wonder if it is worth getting the non Mo Elrogs too, so good are the Mos.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

incredulousity said:


> I wonder if it is worth getting the non Mo Elrogs too, so good are the Mos.


@paradoxper prefers them to the Mo's.  I haven't tried the "standard" version yet, so I have no point of comparison.


----------



## incredulousity

ColSaulTigh said:


> @paradoxper prefers them to the Mo's.  I haven't tried the "standard" version yet, so I have no point of comparison.


And he is King Elrog!


----------



## paradoxper

ColSaulTigh said:


> @paradoxper prefers them to the Mo's.  I haven't tried the "standard" version yet, so I have no point of comparison.


It depends on the driver favored as I think Mo blend more with the more warm types. I am thinking about quad Mo as well. Ha.


----------



## paradoxper

incredulousity said:


> And he is King Elrog!


We'd have a Joffrey situation. 😉


----------



## normie610

paradoxper said:


> We'd have a Joffrey situation. 😉


He’s still alive???


----------



## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> He’s still alive???


I mean, I never finished season 3.


----------



## JTbbb

1Audiophool said:


> Dang…gone already 🥹


I didn’t think they would be there for long. Sorry you missed them.


----------



## JTbbb

ColSaulTigh said:


> Great tubes, btw.  Probably my 2nd favorites behind my beloved Elrog's.


+1 for me. Though this is with the standard Elrog’s


----------



## JTbbb

I obviously spend too much time on eBay etc. pair of 1998 WE300B’s have appeared on hifishark, they are in the Netherlands. €999


----------



## turbofeet

Romania and Poland are about to get it on and make some magical musical babies.


----------



## ThanatosVI

turbofeet said:


> Romania and Poland are about to get it on and make some magical musical babies.


Empyrean and Elite, a fellow man of culture!🧐


----------



## turbofeet

Could never get rid of the Empyreans. 

For the record it's great right out of the box.


----------



## incredulousity

It gets a LOT better. You will be blown away. 

Elite scales much higher with Envy than does Empy. But both are amazing with the amp.


----------



## turbofeet

incredulousity said:


> It gets a LOT better. You will be blown away.
> 
> Elite scales much higher with Envy than does Empy. But both are amazing with the amp.


Good to know there is more to come as it's pretty special already.

I know what you mean about scale as well. To me the Bartok completely transformed the Empyreans into a much more technically proficient headphone without losing the soul. It was a massive improvement and one you could live with forever. 
It wasn't as much of a revelation on the Elites. I guess they didn't need as much help technically. I still loved it though.

The Envy really does take the Elites to another level. They are a truly sublime pairing. Everything you love about them is enhanced. Every instrument is clear and in its own little space yet bass is deep and powerful.

That combination is audio nirvana to me.

I spent 3hrs with the same combination before purchasing and it's pretty much there right out of the box. 

Shame I'll have to stop listening and go to bed in an hour or so 🥺


----------



## turbofeet

paradoxper said:


> Thomas heard I was using one of the brass base Elrogs (this the last run under his supervision) and reached out to advise me it's a bad idea to use the older generation.
> You might reach out to him and discuss the design parameters of Envy and what condition they would fail under to mitigate high risk. I would do so, prudently.


Thank you for this by the way.

I did indeed reach out to him and supplied him with the serial #'s. He confirmed they were manufactured before he took them over and stated "you may be lucky...you may not" and said he destroyed all of the old stock when he took over as he didn't want to risk it.

I found a lot of information on it which confirmed what you said so thanks I'm now returning these and will buy some new Elrogs when my wallet has recovered. 

I felt a bit bad for the seller as he was blissfully unaware that they were so unreliable back then.

Appreciated.


----------



## paradoxper

turbofeet said:


> Thank you for this by the way.
> 
> I did indeed reach out to him and supplied him with the serial #'s. He confirmed they were manufactured before he took them over and stated "you may be lucky...you may not" and said he destroyed all of the old stock when he took over as he didn't want to risk it.
> 
> ...


I'm happy disaster was averted. I do look forward to your thoughts on the Elrogs. Enjoy bliss!


----------



## moosemp

turbofeet said:


> Good to know there is more to come as it's pretty special already.
> 
> I know what you mean about scale as well. To me the Bartok completely transformed the Empyreans into a much more technically proficient headphone without losing the soul. It was a massive improvement and one you could live with forever.
> It wasn't as much of a revelation on the Elites. I guess they didn't need as much help technically. I still loved it though.
> ...


I rediscovered Empyrean too when paired with Envy. All you wrote is true, these are much more demanding HPs than I thought, paired with Envy they seem to show their full potential, I do appreciate warm but not veiled sound, plently of details, great sence of space in well recorded music. Utopia is more dynamic and detailed but not so lush and pleasant to listen to as Empy. They will also stay with me


----------



## 1Audiophool

Can anyone describe the difference in sound between the Elrog vs ElrogMO vs WE 300b’s. Trying to get an idea of what would best suit my system/preferences. TIA


----------



## normie610

1Audiophool said:


> Can anyone describe the difference in sound between the Elrog vs ElrogMO vs WE 300b’s. Trying to get an idea of what would best suit my system/preferences. TIA


@paradoxper to the rescue (as usual)


----------



## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> @paradoxper to the rescue (as usual)


I serve you.
Follow your listening preference:

WE 300B is the traditional standard: warm and rich. Also rolled and bloated. 
Elrogs is the new standard. Superior simply with layering, depth, weight, punch.
The Mo is more forward and further dynamic with better extension at both ends.

My preference matches Mo with warmer spectrums: Susvara, Valkyria, LCD-4, Solitaire, D8K, etc
I match the ER with neutral bright spectrums: RAAL, 1266, LCD-5, Utopia, etc.

Ask @ColSaulTigh @DJJEZ @JTbbb and follow us in the 300B thread


----------



## ColSaulTigh

paradoxper said:


> I serve you.
> Follow your listening preference:
> 
> WE 300B is the traditional standard: warm and rich. Also rolled and bloated.
> ...


I concur, however, I do not have the standard ER, only the Mo.  I think the Takatsuki's are a closer comparison, but even they lack the weight and impact of the Elrogs.  The WE's are old school, time and technology have improved the ER's.


----------



## JTbbb

ColSaulTigh said:


> I concur, however, I do not have the standard ER, only the Mo.  I think the Takatsuki's are a closer comparison, but even they lack the weight and impact of the Elrogs.  The WE's are old school, time and technology have improved the ER's.


+ 1. The very first listen was Takatsuki’s, and they were wonderful compared to my previous Euforia AE. Then Elrog’s ER, these already had hours on them and they were more dynamic, I’m rubbish at descriptions, I enjoyed their sound more. But those Takatsuki’s are very close.
The WE300’s are on their way.


----------



## 1Audiophool

paradoxper said:


> I serve you.
> Follow your listening preference:
> 
> WE 300B is the traditional standard: warm and rich. Also rolled and bloated.
> ...


Thank you for the insight. Followed the 300b thread…lots of reading to do there.


----------



## nwavesailor

I have tried several 6SN7, 6F8G, and 1578 paired with the Elrogs and none I have tried are a bad pairing. After several weeks of using the 1578, I went back to the 1940's Tung Sol round plate 6F8G and they are truly outstanding. Tight deep bass and all the extension on top I would ever want with. I have used the 6F8G in a few amps and they are stunning in the Envy!


----------



## Marutks

Is single ended output any different from 4 pin XLR in Envy?    same power / noise level ?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

nwavesailor said:


> I have tried several 6SN7, 6F8G, and 1578 paired with the Elrogs and none I have tried are a bad pairing. After several weeks of using the 1578, I went back to the 1940's Tung Sol round plate 6F8G and they are truly outstanding. Tight deep bass and all the extension on top I would ever want with. I have used the 6F8G in a few amps and they are stunning in the Envy!


I tend to drift back to the the 6F8G's as well.  Although the Melz 1578's are incredible as well...


----------



## incredulousity

ColSaulTigh said:


> I tend to drift back to the the 6F8G's as well.  Although the Melz 1578's are incredible as well...


Which adapters do you use for those? I've never used any tubes in that form factor with the top connection.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

incredulousity said:


> Which adapters do you use for those? I've never used any tubes in that form factor with the top connection.


Woo Audio 6F8G > 6SN7 adapters


----------



## incredulousity (Oct 12, 2022)

Thank you @ColSaulTigh

and ordered.

Now to find some primo tubes for them...


----------



## nwavesailor

@ColSaulTigh may have both the round plate and ladder plate versions of the TS 6F8G.
 I only have round (oval) plate of the TS and National Union.
 As with the TS 6SN7 the round plates are 'supposed' to be the tube you want to chase but I have not heard the ladder plate.


----------



## ColSaulTigh (Oct 12, 2022)

nwavesailor said:


> @ColSaulTigh may have both the round plate and ladder plate versions of the TS 6F8G.
> I only have round (oval) plate of the TS and National Union.
> As with the TS 6SN7 the round plates are 'supposed' to be the tube you want to chase but I have not heard the ladder plate.


I've got three different sets of Tung Sol's (2 are NOS US Army Signal Corps from the early 40's, one is a retail box pair from the 50's (I think)).  I also picked up the National Unions recently as well as a pair of RCA's.  The Tung Sol's are all very "sweet" sounding and probably the best overall of the bunch, but I don't think I've taken the time to compare them all to each other.  If I had to rank my 6F8G's, I'd say Tung-Sol > National Union > RCA, but they're all very close.

If I find some time on the weekend, I'll put them to the test.


----------



## nwavesailor

I agree regarding the TS being slightly better than the NU. Do you have round plate and latter plate versions?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

nwavesailor said:


> I agree regarding the TS being slightly better than the NU. Do you have round plate and latter plate versions?


I have both.  The RP are NOS US Army Signal Corps circa 1942.  I also have a pair of Sylvania (that I forgot all about).


----------



## ColSaulTigh

For anyone who might be looking for a pair of the Tung Sol's, there's a pair on eBay HERE. They've gone up quite a bit in price, but I've bought from BuenosAriesRadio several times, and he's a great guy to deal with. Resolved an issue with one of my Sylvania's without hesitation. I firmly believe in paying more for quality and excellent customer service. In the grand scheme of things, the extra price is worth the peace of mind to me.


----------



## zen87192 (Oct 12, 2022)

Who's the lucky person who bagged the 1944 Tung Sols on ebay just now? I wasn't even able to get my question to the seller answered in time 🤣


----------



## nwavesailor

WOW $589!

For years the TS 6F8G were the inexpensive alternative to the TSRP 6SN7. Those days are now ancient history!


----------



## ColSaulTigh

zen87192 said:


> Who's the lucky person who bagged the 1944 Tung Sols on ebay just now? I wasn't even able to get my question to the seller answered in time 🤣


He's probably got some more - shoot him a message.


----------



## turbofeet

zen87192 said:


> Who's the lucky person who bagged the 1944 Tung Sols on ebay just now? I wasn't even able to get my question to the seller answered in time 🤣


Haha I was looking at those very same tubes earlier today as well.

I ended up buying some Elrogs last night after a bottle of wine. I promised myself I would wait but oh dear.

I blame you lot with tube rolling and adapters and 1940s wares! Shame on you! 🤣


----------



## incredulousity

zen87192 said:


> Who's the lucky person who bagged the 1944 Tung Sols on ebay just now? I wasn't even able to get my question to the seller answered in time 🤣


That would be I.


----------



## incredulousity

turbofeet said:


> Haha I was looking at those very same tubes earlier today as well.
> 
> I ended up buying some Elrogs last night after a bottle of wine. I promised myself I would wait but oh dear.
> 
> I blame you lot with tube rolling and adapters and 1940s wares! Shame on you! 🤣


Which Elrogs? ER or Mo?


----------



## zen87192

incredulousity said:


> That would be I.


Congratulations! A great purchase! Please update with your thoughts once you have had time to listen to them.


----------



## turbofeet

ER. I think they'll be more my taste 🙂


----------



## paradoxper

turbofeet said:


> Haha I was looking at those very same tubes earlier today as well.
> 
> I ended up buying some Elrogs last night after a bottle of wine. I promised myself I would wait but oh dear.
> 
> I blame you lot with tube rolling and adapters and 1940s wares! Shame on you! 🤣


Another one bites!


----------



## incredulousity

paradoxper said:


> Another one bites!


And the Elrog gods are pleased.


----------



## paradoxper

incredulousity said:


> And the Elrog gods are pleased.


Legion wants the whole of Head-Fi.


----------



## incredulousity (Oct 12, 2022)

Or at least the 300B crew.

Though we’d all buy a 6SN7 if they did one.


----------



## paradoxper

incredulousity said:


> Or at least the 300B crew.
> 
> Though we’d all buy a 6SN7 if they did one.


Well, Thomas reads the 300B thread so if we raise enough voices. 

It's actually shocking Elrog does not do the 6SN7 as demand is the primary driving force for what they will take to production.


----------



## incredulousity (Oct 12, 2022)

Petition!

There are a few mediocre and decent current ones, a couple of good ones, and no truly great ones. It’s an open market on the high end.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

The "Bad Influence" strikes again!


----------



## paradoxper

incredulousity said:


> Petition!
> 
> There are a few mediocre and decent current ones, a couple of good ones, and no truly great ones. It’s an open market on the high end.


It makes sense. A swath of 300B use the 6SN7 as the driver.


----------



## nwavesailor

incredulousity said:


> And the Elrog gods are pleased.


You will be thrilled with the TS 6F8G and Elrogs in your Envy!!!!!


----------



## ThanatosVI

There won't be Elrog 6SN7 or any other indirectly heated tubes for that matter.

I asked him for KT88/KT150 a while ago and 6SN7 just recently


----------



## incredulousity

Too bad


----------



## paradoxper

Here is your answer:
I am getting emails asking about the 6SN7. And I also see that topic on the head-fi forum.

I am sorry but we will not make these. Let me give some explanation why and you can post this on the forum if you like.

Producing tubes is extremely difficult. A layman might think it should be easy to produce such ancient technology nowadays. But it is not. It is unlikely that any new company which does not yet have some production line and knowledge in this area will start making tubes. We have the production capability to make directly heated tubes. Indirectly heated tubes like the 6SN7, EL34, EL84, KT88, 12A*7 types, etc require a very different process and are a different category of tubes. The investment needed to build up a new production line from scratch for these is huge.  

The signature sound of our tubes is due to the use of thoriated tungsten filaments in all types. We are the only producer of 300B variants and rectifiers which use such filaments. When I got in contact with the former Elrog company (before I took over) I discussed the idea of a thoriated filament 300B with the previous owner. I always preferred the sound qualities of thoriated tungsten filaments. The difference this makes is not only audible but can also be measured. Thoriated tungsten filament triodes show a more constant amplification factor independent of the signal amplitude. Oxide coated filaments show a slight compression of the amplification factor as the tubes are driven harder. This results in the fast and dynamic sound with high resolution in our tubes. The motivation behind the development the Elrog ER300B was to get this sound character which is usually only obtainable from transmitting type triodes. The goal was to get the sound of an 801A in a tube with 300B characteristics.

Indirectly heated tubes have a cathode which is yet different and cannot be made with the characteristics of thoriated tungsten filaments. Also the above mentioned compression of amplification factor  is even more present in indirectly heated tubes.

The mission of my company is to make tubes with the best possible sound quality. This is only obtainable from directly heated tubes which are inherently more linear than indirectly heated tubes. And among the directly heated tubes those with thoriated tungsten filaments are superior.

I hope this helps to understand why I will not go this direction and expand the production to indirectly heated tube types. I am the sole proprietor of the company and wish to stay independent. Getting investors on board to build up such a production would change the company and bring pressure for growth and more profit. And any potential investor would most likely not engage if he analyses the market and risk of not getting any ROI. And if there would be a wealthy audiophile willing to do this without the need for profit, there would be other much more interesting things to develop with directly heated tubes. There are still more ideas how to push the sound envelope further.

So if you want to get more of the Elrog sound signature it makes more sense to get an amp which uses only tube types we produce. And if you like the ER300B sound, maybe check out the tube which it is modelled after. Be it old production 801A types and their variants 10, 10Y, VT25, VT62 or of course the Elrog types which are available as ER801A, ER801A-Mo and TM801A. Of course the amp needs to be designed for the 801A.

Best regards

Thomas


----------



## incredulousity

Sad, but makes complete sense. 

Thanks @paradoxper and @ThanatosVI for the correspondence and sharing thereof.


----------



## paradoxper

incredulousity said:


> Sad, but makes complete sense.
> 
> Thanks @paradoxper and @ThanatosVI for the correspondence and sharing thereof.


Thank Thomas. He's tried joining but moderators aren't actively receptive as he'd like to post more and has plenty of knowledge to share.


----------



## turbofeet

I listen to quite an eclectic mix of music to say the least.

This amp and Meze Elite just justice to all of these tracks that I was listening to (one after the other). No need to EQ or change any settings in between. Just wonderful. 

Lord knows what the Elrog will bring to the party...

Lost Without You by Freya Ridings
https://open.qobuz.com/track/62726817

I. Allegro non molto by Janine Jansen on Qobuz https://open.qobuz.com/track/6825987

Deep Within The Corners Of My Mind by Melody Gardot https://open.qobuz.com/track/45973120

Born to Roll by Various Artists
https://open.qobuz.com/track/21400898

I shall prepare a shrine post haste.


----------



## JTbbb

turbofeet said:


> I listen to quite an eclectic mix of music to say the least.
> 
> This amp and Meze Elite just justice to all of these tracks that I was listening to (one after the other). No need to EQ or change any settings in between. Just wonderful.
> 
> ...


I love it when people put these Qobuz links in! When I tap the link it goes straight to my Qobuz and there is the album, ready to add to my albums. 👍


----------



## zen87192

ColSaulTigh said:


> He's probably got some more - shoot him a message.


Thanks ColSaulTigh. Did just that and have just bagged a Pair of 1944 TS 6F8G Round Plates from him via The ‘Bay. Now I‘ll grab a pair of those Woo Audio adaptors I think. That’s where I’ll leave it for the moment…. he says… 🤪 Feliks Envy being delivered next week, Elrogs on Monday and these TS 6F8G’s soon. I’ll listen to the Envy ‘Stock‘ for a couple of weeks and then roll these babies in. Yeah…. 🎧🍻


----------



## turbofeet

zen87192 said:


> Thanks ColSaulTigh. Did just that and have just bagged a Pair of 1944 TS 6F8G Round Plates from him via The ‘Bay. Now I‘ll grab a pair of those Woo Audio adaptors I think. That’s where I’ll leave it for the moment…. he says… 🤪 Feliks Envy being delivered next week, Elrogs on Monday and these TS 6F8G’s soon. I’ll listen to the Envy ‘Stock‘ for a couple of weeks and then roll these babies in. Yeah…. 🎧🍻


Haha saw a few more of those myself. It seems to be addictive to search for tubes to roll but thought I'll just wait for the Elrogs for now and see how I get on.

Honestly; enjoy the Performance tubes for a bit. It's really special already and they don't need too much (very little) burn in to start sounding great. I could live with that as endgame but yep it's certainly curious to see what else it out there.

Just give it 15-20 Mins for them to warm up before each session but honestly the Feliks guys did well with their tube selection.

Just enjoy it while you wait and try to be satisfied with what you have.

Of course you will know secretly that there is more to come 👍


----------



## incredulousity

Have to agree that the stock performance tubes are great. But the AN4300E are even better with the PSVanes than the FullMusic.

Elrog Mo are too intense with the PSVanes, and need a more toooby 6SN7. 

I wonder what the Elrog ER are like with the PSVanes, though. May be the max  happy medium.


----------



## zen87192 (Oct 14, 2022)

turbofeet said:


> Haha saw a few more of those myself. It seems to be addictive to search for tubes to roll but thought I'll just wait for the Elrogs for now and see how I get on.
> 
> Honestly; enjoy the Performance tubes for a bit. It's really special already and they don't need too much (very little) burn in to start sounding great. I could live with that as endgame but yep it's certainly curious to see what else it out there.
> 
> ...


Yeah… I blame the Primaluna EVO 400 Integrated for the start of my Tube rolling… I know the ‘effects’ it can have on a system 🎶


----------



## turbofeet

zen87192 said:


> Yeah… I blame my Primaluna EVO 400 Integrated for the start of my Tube rolling… I know the ‘effects’ it can have on a system 🎶


Oh absolutely it seems you can change the sound quite dramatically and I find it quite fascinating. 

It's just nice to know they shipped it in a nice configuration to begin with so (if you want) you can just enjoy it out of the box.

Will be nice to hear your thoughts.


----------



## nwavesailor (Oct 15, 2022)

zen87192 said:


> Thanks ColSaulTigh. Did just that and have just bagged a Pair of 1944 TS 6F8G Round Plates from him via The ‘Bay. Now I‘ll grab a pair of those Woo Audio adaptors I think. That’s where I’ll leave it for the moment…. he says… 🤪 Feliks Envy being delivered next week, Elrogs on Monday and these TS 6F8G’s soon. I’ll listen to the Envy ‘Stock‘ for a couple of weeks and then roll these babies in. Yeah…. 🎧🍻


I have NO tube discipline compared to a lot of you here. I get a new toy and I start to roll.
You can say I don't know what I have based on the stock tubes before I start changing and that would be accurate. 
I want to go with what I think 'may' be the best combo and not wait. Like I said, I have no tube discipline and I know it!

I think you will be blown away with the TS 6F8G and Elrogs in the Envy.


----------



## moosemp

incredulousity said:


> Have to agree that the stock performance tubes are great. But the AN4300E are even better with the PSVanes than the FullMusic.
> 
> Elrog Mo are too intense with the PSVanes, and need a more toooby 6SN7.
> 
> I wonder what the Elrog ER are like with the PSVanes, though. May be the max  happy medium.


Elrog with PSVanes are now in my Envy with excellent results. I listen to this set and I am completely satisfied. Next 300B will be Takatsuki or Elrog Mo. But tubes rolling bug bites me more and more. So I am looking for 6SN7 and 6F8G - some advice please...


----------



## incredulousity

For this reason I still want The Elrog ER.


----------



## JTbbb

moosemp said:


> Elrog with PSVanes are now in my Envy with excellent results. I listen to this set and I am completely satisfied. Next 300B will be Takatsuki or Elrog Mo. But tubes rolling bug bites me more and more. So I am looking for 6SN7 and 6F8G - some advice please...


My favourite 6sn7 pairing with the ER’s so far is the TSBGRP. Just seems to get everything just about right.


----------



## zen87192

Tube ’rolling’ is great for finding most and ‘your own’ preferred sound signature. What about those ‘performance’ Fuses (Orange, Purple) found in most power supplies? Would they be of any benefit inside a Feliks Envy?


----------



## incredulousity (Oct 15, 2022)

Fuses: The final frontier…

I guess if power cords matter, and power filters/conditioners matter, fuses might matter. But why one fuse is better than another is a mystery to me. Someone out there sells $2500 fuses 😂


----------



## zen87192 (Oct 15, 2022)

Apparently, the High End Audio Fuses (Synergistic Research) use a particular premium Graphene UEF compound that reduces the Noise Floor.
Whoa…!! I sound intelligent don’t I !! 😂 That info was borrowed from the website that sells them. They retail out at about £190.00/$212.00


----------



## turbofeet

Some people pay crazy money for fuses for the Bartok but although I'm sure it might make a little difference I'd rather spend my money elsewhere.

I use these power cables for the Bartok and Envy and they seem perfectly sufficient to me:

https://www.futureshop.co.uk/ps-audio-perfectwave-ac3-mains-power-cable

I think the power supply in the device itself should be top notch in this high end gear so I think power conditioning is probably less critical.

I have zero scientific knowledge that backs up that statement 😂


----------



## zen87192 (Oct 15, 2022)

Which are the better version: TS 6SN7  *GT*, *GTB *or *GTY *? Black or Clear OR MULLARD 5692 6SN7 BVA


----------



## ColSaulTigh

zen87192 said:


> Tube ’rolling’ is great for finding most and ‘your own’ preferred sound signature. What about those ‘performance’ Fuses (Orange, Purple) found in most power supplies? Would they be of any benefit inside a Feliks Envy?


I run Synergistic Research Purples in all of my gear (Woo Audio WA5-LE, WA6-SE [x2], Musician Pegasus [x4]).  I hear the most dramatic improvement in the DACs.  Some improvement in the amps.  I am currently testing a Gustard In my WA5, I need to swap back to the Synergistic Research to compare.

I think a quality A/C cord makes more of a difference, but my philosophy has always been "go big or go home".  YMMV.


----------



## zen87192

N..I..C..E..  
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254335018269
Any takers?


----------



## turbofeet

zen87192 said:


> N..I..C..E..
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254335018269
> Any takers?


I saw those but they are not the same as the others linked earlier (I don't think!).


----------



## JTbbb

zen87192 said:


> N..I..C..E..
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254335018269
> Any takers?


I am fairly certain this is a vendor that has been mentioned in these pages before ie. Stay away!


----------



## 1Audiophool

turbofeet said:


> I saw those but they are not the same as the others linked earlier (I don't think!).


Yeah, saw those too. Don’t think they are.

Wouldn’t purchase these for a number of reasons… just my 2 cents and yes, I am a skeptical, jaded old man 🤨 …. 
1. Showing a pic of a quad when selling a pair= Shady imo (even though it clearly states pair…still purposely misleading) red flag
2. Lots of jibberish in description with very little actual info on tubes= red flag
3. Tube on far left doesn’t look to be in good shape…is that one you’d be getting? Who knows, there’s no info= red flag

Again, I’m a distrustful curmudgeon…may be perfectly fine 🤷 😆


----------



## JTbbb

1Audiophool said:


> Yeah, saw those too. Don’t think they are.
> 
> Wouldn’t purchase these for a number of reasons… just my 2 cents and yes, I am a skeptical, jaded old man 🤨 ….
> 1. Showing a pic of a quad when selling a pair= Shady imo (even though it clearly states pair…still purposely misleading) red flag
> ...


Just search his eBay handle in this site!


----------



## jonathan c

There is the tube triumvirate of gouging:

Bangybang, menifee, wege_high_tubes.

Understudy / protégé:  cartago_delenda_est.


----------



## turbofeet

Personally I'm waiting for the Elrogs which will tide me over.

I hope that Western Electric release their 6SN7s early next year so I can try those.

I'm still a little nervous about tubes that are so old in my wooden marvel but it sounds like some of them are absolutely awesome.

Love hearing about all of your tube rolling.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

I've never purchased from that seller - I buy my WWII 6F8G's from BuenosAres_Radio out of Argentina, because I like to fund the "Boys from Brazil" I guess.  I've bought 3 sets of tubes from him now, all are exactly as described, and had to deal with one return due to defect, which he handled superbly.  Yes, They're priced a bit more than those listed above, but I'll pay for quality and service.  

If you are looking specifically for Tung Sol's, send BuenosAres_Radio a message, he responds quickly, and I'm sure he's got a bunch in stock.  Should be $579 for a NOS in original boxes per pair now.

My $.02 worth.


----------



## zen87192 (Oct 18, 2022)

ColSaulTigh said:


> I've never purchased from that seller - I buy my WWII 6F8G's from BuenosAres_Radio out of Argentina, because I like to fund the "Boys from Brazil" I guess.  I've bought 3 sets of tubes from him now, all are exactly as described, and had to deal with one return due to defect, which he handled superbly.  Yes, They're priced a bit more than those listed above, but I'll pay for quality and service.
> 
> If you are looking specifically for Tung Sol's, send BuenosAres_Radio a message, he responds quickly, and I'm sure he's got a bunch in stock.  Should be $579 for a NOS in original boxes per pair now.
> 
> My $.02 worth.


Yup.... mine are on the way from BuenosAres_Radio. You pointed me in his direction a week ago and now they are on the way to me in the UK by FedEx. I just thought that putting this 'Bay auction up would answer some of my silent questions.... which you all did. Thank you all who chipped in for your insight.


----------



## Nicolas Yance

ColSaulTigh said:


> I've never purchased from that seller - I buy my WWII 6F8G's from BuenosAres_Radio out of Argentina, because I like to fund the "Boys from Brazil" I guess.  I've bought 3 sets of tubes from him now, all are exactly as described, and had to deal with one return due to defect, which he handled superbly.  Yes, They're priced a bit more than those listed above, but I'll pay for quality and service.
> 
> If you are looking specifically for Tung Sol's, send BuenosAres_Radio a message, he responds quickly, and I'm sure he's got a bunch in stock.  Should be $579 for a NOS in original boxes per pair now.
> 
> My $.02 worth.


Would you mind sharing a link to their page please? I'm failing to find them on google.


----------



## zen87192

https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/buenosai...uid=z_RZmTC9T9K&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY


----------



## ColSaulTigh

zen87192 said:


> https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/buenosai...uid=z_RZmTC9T9K&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY


Shoot him an email if he doesn't have what you're looking for posted - he's usually very responsive.


----------



## zen87192

Received my Woo Audio 6F8G to 6SN7 adapters today. Very nice with substantial workmanship. I look forward to using them soon. My TS VT99 Round Plate 6F8G's are still flying their way to me from Buenos Aires and will be with me next week. My Elrogs have been delayed by FedEx!! Should have arrived today but I was notified last night of delays. FedEx give a delivery date then do not deliver on the day and email to advise of further delays. Still also waiting on my Envy as there are manufacturing delays. Gosh... 🙄 Still.... patience is a virtue.


----------



## turbofeet

zen87192 said:


> Received my Woo Audio 6F8G to 6SN7 adapters today. Very nice with substantial workmanship. I look forward to using them soon. My TS VT99 Round Plate 6F8G's are still flying their way to me from Buenos Aires and will be with me next week. My Elrogs have been delayed by FedEx!! Should have arrived today but I was notified last night of delays. FedEx give a delivery date then do not deliver on the day and email to advise of further delays. Still also waiting on my Envy as there are manufacturing delays. Gosh... 🙄 Still.... patience is a virtue.


You'll be well prepared! It's worth the wait.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

zen87192 said:


> Received my Woo Audio 6F8G to 6SN7 adapters today. Very nice with substantial workmanship. I look forward to using them soon. My TS VT99 Round Plate 6F8G's are still flying their way to me from Buenos Aires and will be with me next week. My Elrogs have been delayed by FedEx!! Should have arrived today but I was notified last night of delays. FedEx give a delivery date then do not deliver on the day and email to advise of further delays. Still also waiting on my Envy as there are manufacturing delays. Gosh... 🙄 Still.... patience is a virtue.


Stick the adapters directly into each ear.  It's like putting a seashell up to your ear - you can hear the music!


----------



## zen87192

Oh yeah...so you can... how did it know my favourite tune? 🤪


----------



## ColSaulTigh

zen87192 said:


> Oh yeah...so you can... how did it know my favourite tune? 🤪


It's EVERYBODY'S favorite tune in here - "Time-Life Presents: 1001 Tube Adapter Songs" in a new 27-CD set!


----------



## incredulousity

Mine have shipped too. And adapters came super fast. I look forward to trying them, though I doubt that they can beat the Melz.


----------



## turbofeet

incredulousity said:


> Mine have shipped too. And adapters came super fast. I look forward to trying them, though I doubt that they can beat the Melz.


Looking forward to all of your thoughts.

Let us know if you can hear the sea.


----------



## incredulousity

Hearing the sea is a defect.


----------



## turbofeet

Haha


----------



## zen87192

Not sure about that…. sometimes I hear things in ‘waves’…. 😜


----------



## nwavesailor

incredulousity said:


> Mine have shipped too. And adapters came super fast. I look forward to trying them, though I doubt that they can beat the Melz.


You MAY be surprised!

 I know you have the Elrog MO (I have the mere mortal Elrogs) and perhaps those and the 1578 can't be topped paticularly in detail and clarity but.............we'll see.


----------



## incredulousity

nwavesailor said:


> You MAY be surprised!
> 
> I know you have the Elrog MO (I have the mere mortal Elrogs) and perhaps those and the 1578 can't be topped paticularly in detail and clarity but.............we'll see.


Actually, after 200 hours on the PSVanes, even they are more than good enough with the Elrog Mo, and probably would pair even better with the ER Elrog, because the PSVanes are so extremely neutral and detailed.


----------



## turbofeet

At about 2:13 in this track there is a little tapping/clicking sound. I thought...hmm I wonder if a tube is on its way out and starting to click...

Alone in Kyoto by Air
https://open.qobuz.com/track/1056412

Perhaps it's not good sometimes to hear so much information in your music. 

How long do you guys wait for it to warm up before listening? 10mins seems about right as the Full Music tubes take about that before they stop clicking as they warm up. Just wondering if it's good practice for Tubes to always let them warm up first? Can they be damaged or affect longevity if you just go right into it?

Some other tracks that sound glorious:

Killing The Blues by Shawn Colvin
https://open.qobuz.com/track/36793

Take the Power Back by Rage Against The Machine https://open.qobuz.com/track/12667196


----------



## incredulousity

I think Elrog Mo like 15 minutes and I think sometimes that even 30 sounds better.

It’s usable after 5 minutes though.


----------



## ThanatosVI

incredulousity said:


> I think Elrog Mo like 15 minutes and I think sometimes that even 30 sounds better.
> 
> It’s usable after 5 minutes though.


Isn't it useable right from the get go? (Well like 30 to 60 seconds when the slow Boot up finished)


----------



## incredulousity

Buy usable, I mean that I can listen to it and like it.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

My Elrog 300B-Mo sound fine right after start up, and stay pretty consistent throughout an evening of listening.  I do have several hundred hours on them though...


----------



## Newsee

ThanatosVI said:


> Isn't it useable right from the get go? (Well like 30 to 60 seconds when the slow Boot up finished)


The FM is still clicking due to warmup even after a minute. Otherwise would be usable.


----------



## nwavesailor

What put me off on snagging the new WE 300b tubes was reading many reports and reviews that talked about the 'sounds' their 300B made for a period of time after buying them.
I ended up with the Elroigs (thanks in large part to @paradoxper's opinion) as I was not looking for a warm, romantic tube sound. The Elrogs were STONE quiet from day 1 and sounded very good from the very first track with no warmup.


----------



## paradoxper

nwavesailor said:


> What put me off on snagging the new WE 300b tubes was reading many reports and reviews that talked about the 'sounds' their 300B made for a period of time after buying them.
> I ended up with the Elroigs (thanks in large part to @paradoxper's opinion) as I was not looking for a warm, romantic tube sound. The Elrogs were STONE quiet from day 1 and sounded very good from the very first track with no warmup.


To be frank, there is quite a stir with WE new production 300B and their reliability. Recently group chatting with around eight 2 channel buddies, whom all have had to service tubes in under a year, there does seem to be a high infant mortality. 

We were joking how amazing the 5 year warranty was advertised but is explicitly necessary compared to xyz.

I would still buy Western Electric as their Customer Service is exceptional. I would simply buy Elrog and Audio Note foremost.


----------



## ThanatosVI

paradoxper said:


> To be frank, there is quite a stir with WE new production 300B and their reliability. Recently group chatting with around eight 2 channel buddies, whom all have had to service tubes in under a year, there does seem to be a high infant mortality.
> 
> We were joking how amazing the 5 year warranty was advertised but is explicitly necessary compared to xyz.
> 
> I would still buy Western Electric as their Customer Service is exceptional. I would simply buy Elrog and Audio Note foremost.


Can you keep us updated on how long it took your buddies to get replacements?
EML also has a 5 year guarantee, but it takes them like 10 months to send replacements which makes the warranty worthless in most cases


----------



## paradoxper

ThanatosVI said:


> Can you keep us updated on how long it took your buddies to get replacements?
> EML also has a 5 year guarantee, but it takes them like 10 months to send replacements which makes the warranty worthless in most cases


They've been very quick with 4 week turnarounds.


----------



## alekc

Just wanted to share quickly my experience with Envy and Susvaras. Long story short: I could not find any track nor album that would sound bad or would missing something. The only exception (rather due to an amp and how the track has been mastered since I have been listening to it with different set of cans including Focal Clear MG, Meze Empyrean and HiFiMAN HE-R10P) is a Pearl Jam Getaway which on most amps is always messing a bit of dynamics and speed for me. 

Overall this was a brilliant experience and something every Envy fan should try. With proper dac in chain this easily could be an endgame. Acme tubes were used instead of stock ones from Feliks Audio.


----------



## Newsee

ThanatosVI said:


> Can you keep us updated on how long it took your buddies to get replacements?
> EML also has a 5 year guarantee, but it takes them like 10 months to send replacements which makes the warranty worthless in most cases


Great company slogan


----------



## Somatic

arthurito said:


> Susvara😍 but also as a preamp into AHB2 and Joseph Audio Pulsar 2 speakers, it’s magical


This is my plan as well. Envy seems perfect as it can power Susvara or easier to drive headphones but you can still use as preamp/ I used to own the AHB2 and plan to get it again.


----------



## Somatic

HichamV said:


> One warning for those who want this for their desktop set up: This thing runs hot! I use this as a preamp as well and it is basically on all day. But I have it next to my computer screen, something like 60-80 cm away from my face, but I can feel one side of my face heating up. The hot summer is not helping but I am thinking of putting it further away from me, even if that means that the volume button will be quite far away.


Hmmm ... even at 80cm away ... yeah thats one of the downsides ... hehe


----------



## arthurito

Envy is also great with Focal Stellia on low gain!


----------



## Somatic

If one owns the Envy, is a solid state amp needed? Does one still get good bass articulation, punch/slam with Envy solo? Any benefits by adding a SS AMP and use the Envy as pre? I rather have less boxes and use the Envy solo. Just thought I would ask. Thanks.


----------



## rangerid

If you have hard to drive planars, I find powerful solid states to have better ultimate performance on the dynamics front than tube amps. Non of the TOTL tube amps I tried (WA33EE JPS, AIC-10, Nirvana, Manley) can match the CFA3 for control, impact, and dynamics. 

I am an advocate for preamping solid state by a tube pre for the best of both world performances and it's what I've been experimenting with for the last year. When you introduce a preamp it will do 1 of 4 things to your chain:
1. A low performance tube pre will deteriorate SQ
2. A truly "transparent" pre will act as a cable and will be pointless if you can control volume through your amp
3. Change the sound, not for better or worse, just different
4. Improve the sound - this is what you want to shoot for 

Some items to keep in mind though, tube headamps with a pre-out functionality does not necessarily perform well as a linestage preamp. e.g. the WA33 doesn't improve the sound too much, but gives it a different flavour where as the much cheaper Manley Neo improves the sound noticeably. System synergy is extremely important and it's probably the most time consuming part of the process, finding the right combination of amp to pre-amp that will optimize performance. If you want to add a tube pre, my recommendation is to find a dedicated tube preamp from a manufacturer that specializes in preamp, rather than using a headphone amp with pre-amp capability. Some brands to explore are Audio Research, VAC, Manley, Primaluna, BAT, there's a ton... 

To answer your question, is adding a SS to Envy beneficial, my answer would be it's likely to fall into category of changing the sound, not for better or worse, just different. You will likely introduce 300b characteristics into your chain but whether you like it or not is another matter, you will have to play around with it. However, since you rather have less boxes I'd just stick to the Envy solo, you will still get excellent bass/dynamics; if you already have a SS, just get another pair of interconnect and experiment.


----------



## incredulousity

Just get Elrog ER or Elrog Mo as 300B for Envy, and worry not about bass. Ever.

Perhaps Susvara and Abyss owners would comment further on this, but I have all that I’d ever want.


----------



## Somatic

incredulousity said:


> Just get Elrog ER or Elrog Mo as 300B for Envy, and worry not about bass. Ever.
> 
> Perhaps Susvara and Abyss owners would comment further on this, but I have all that I’d ever want.


Yes, please would love to hear from the Susvara owners personally. Also any comparison to SS options would be nice to hear. For example, Envy with Elrog Mo vs Ferrum stack to power the Susvara. Thanks.


----------



## nwavesailor

I find the Susvara is a fantastic pairing with the Envy. I though the Bigger Ben was very good but then the Envy arrived!

I do not have a powerful SS speaker amp to pair with the Sus, but I am a VERY happy Sus / Envy owner!


----------



## Somatic (Oct 24, 2022)

Sucks folks outside of Europe need to pay a higher premium for the Envy. Upscale Audio sells them for $1400 over MSRP for USA. I guess due to customs, duties, overseas shipping etc? Also, they are not taking custom wood orders.

I may have my buddy from France buy a custom wood, performance 120v version of the Envy and ship it out to me. With the low Euro I can save some money and get a unique wood as well.

Anyone able to get a dealer price on the Envy or does Upscale control the price? Thanks.


----------



## Somatic

paradoxper said:


> I serve you.
> Follow your listening preference:
> 
> WE 300B is the traditional standard: warm and rich. Also rolled and bloated.
> ...


Mo is more forward? Does this mean the mid range is more forward or sounds a bit more aggressive?

I actually want my Susvara/Atrium to be warmer but dont want bloated bass. I will probably go with normal Elrogs.


----------



## arthurito

Somatic said:


> If one owns the Envy, is a solid state amp needed? Does one still get good bass articulation, punch/slam with Envy solo? Any benefits by adding a SS AMP and use the Envy as pre? I rather have less boxes and use the Envy solo. Just thought I would ask. Thanks.


It’s not necessary, it depends on your needs. If you have 95db sensitive speakers you could easily plug them in the 6.3m jack and run them very well. I use an AHB2 because it’s the most transparent and powerful enough amp that I can afford and that can run my inefficient bookshelf speakers. It doesn’t add anything to the sound (imo). Headphones go directly in the envy


----------



## Somatic

Anyone able to compare Susvara's on the Ferrum stack vs Envy with stock, performance or Elrog tubes? Thanks.


----------



## paradoxper

Somatic said:


> Mo is more forward? Does this mean the mid range is more forward or sounds a bit more aggressive?
> 
> I actually want my Susvara/Atrium to be warmer but dont want bloated bass. I will probably go with normal Elrogs.


Both more than WE with Mo leading edges and attack are extremely crisp and more weighted.

Susvara will pair better with Mo as it provides better substance of body particularly through the treble range.
It should be clear, picking minutiae, both Elrog present zero bloat providing simply better extension top to bottom.


----------



## Somatic

paradoxper said:


> Both more than WE with Mo leading edges and attack are extremely crisp and more weighted.
> 
> Susvara will pair better with Mo as it provides better substance of body particularly through the treble range.
> It should be clear, picking minutiae, both Elrog present zero bloat providing simply better extension top to bottom.





paradoxper said:


> I like the ER300B more than the ER300B-Mo as the former carries more sweetness notably through the midrange.



Seems like Mo is better at micro details and is even more extended but I'm a sucker for sweet midrange. Also I will be using Atriums and Senn HD600. I would like to focus on making the midrange even better.

Thoughts? Thanks.


----------



## incredulousity

Somatic said:


> Seems like Mo is better at micro details and is even more extended but I'm a sucker for sweet midrange. Also I will be using Atriums and Senn HD600. I would like to focus on making the midrange even better.
> 
> Thoughts? Thanks.


I’ll let you know when I get the ER300B, but I can get all the sweetness out of the Mo that I want by tweaking filter settings in Roon or HQPlayer. The AN4300E are also a nice compromise, at the expense of ultimate extension and detail, but better than the stock tubes.


----------



## Somatic

Does anyone know if warranty is transferable on Feliks products?


----------



## turbofeet

Somatic said:


> Does anyone know if warranty is transferable on Feliks products?


Yes I think so. I bought a Euforia AE second hand and emailed them the receipt to them. They said they would transfer it to me.


----------



## paradoxper

Somatic said:


> Seems like Mo is better at micro details and is even more extended but I'm a sucker for sweet midrange. Also I will be using Atriums and Senn HD600. I would like to focus on making the midrange even better.
> 
> Thoughts? Thanks.


That's how I feel about ER -- the midrange sweetness is the only place it outshines Mo. But a tube like the EML Globe 45 shows what real midrange magic is.

It is about system matching as the Mo isn't overtly dry and in comparative context, WE is like honey in a bad way. 
Or, to put it another way, the reason Mo doesn't mate with 1266 perfectly is due to the excessive bright edge.


----------



## Somatic

paradoxper said:


> That's how I feel about ER -- the midrange sweetness is the only place it outshines Mo. But a tube like the EML Globe 45 shows what real midrange magic is.
> 
> It is about system matching as the Mo isn't overtly dry and in comparative context, WE is like honey in a bad way.
> Or, to put it another way, the reason Mo doesn't mate with 1266 perfectly is due to the excessive bright edge.


I see. I'm guessing I have a brighter DAC than most. Dave + Farad3. When using the Ferrum Oor, I crave even more warmth or at least tame some of the highs on the Susvara for me. Not roll it off but at a hint more smoothness.

I found the 1266's treble to be edgy, raw and a little much at times. Which 300b would be a better match with the 1266?

If I go with ER for Susvara and Atriums, will still outperform Electro Harmonix Gold & Full Music in low/top extension, marco/micro details, soundstage, etc?

Thanks


----------



## paradoxper

Somatic said:


> I see. I'm guessing I have a brighter DAC than most. Dave + Farad3. When using the Ferrum Oor, I crave even more warmth or at least tame some of the highs on the Susvara for me. Not roll it off but at a hint more smoothness.
> 
> I found the 1266's treble to be edgy, raw and a little much at times. Which 300b would be a better match with the 1266?
> 
> ...


I have a Berkeley Reference 3 as well as XT 300B paired with CFA3 so likely a parallel chain warmth. 300B will add warmth and provide tonal density and more bloom -- the WE is always recommended as a second complement which will roll things but pleasantly so.
My feeling is Oor is more the culprit of being a little thin coupled with Susvara.

When it comes to ER vs Mo, we're differentiating the very fine details and as a starter, the ER will do well with Susvara (you will hear the immediate difference of 300B vs without), the Elrogs just provide a un-300B middle-ground as they don't roll off and better delineate bass definition.

The 'lesser' 300B are simply hazy where detail is concerned and more bloated through the spectrum.


----------



## rev92

Found a new, fantastic pair for the ENVY - the Rosson RAD-0...damn this sounds great!


----------



## Somatic

paradoxper said:


> Thank Thomas. He's tried joining but moderators aren't actively receptive as he'd like to post more and has plenty of knowledge to share.


#FreeThomas


----------



## incredulousity

I’m getting a wild hair to try Raal circumaural headphone in combination with it. I don’t have it, but might be interesting. Anyone tried ribbons/interface with Envy yet?


----------



## Somatic

I know it’s Apple and Oranges but seeing if anyone can compare the Envy vs the Oor? Will I lose anything if I switch to the solo Envy? I assume I would get better technicalities with the Envy but thought I would ask. Thanks.


----------



## alekc

Somatic said:


> I know it’s Apple and Oranges but seeing if anyone can compare the Envy vs the Oor? Will I lose anything if I switch to the solo Envy? I assume I would get better technicalities with the Envy but thought I would ask. Thanks.


@Somatic indeed it is. To make the long story short Envy (at least Performance version since my experience is limited to this edition only) plays in another league for itself light years ahead of Oor in my book. IMHO you will not loose anything in solo Envy setup and you may even gain a thing or two. I try to keep the chain as simple as possible. Envy easily allows that and it maybe end-game amp not to mention the possibility of tube rolling


----------



## rev92

Compared the OOR with the Envy as well, Envy wins by a lot.


----------



## Somatic

So has anyone compared the performance and standard version using the same tubes? I’m guessing not.

I’m starting to lean towards standard similar to @nwavesailor thoughts. Not sure if the upgraded copper will make a big difference.

Thoughts? Most people here going performance?

I was thinking of just getting the extra cash and buying some Elrogs and good now 6sn7s.


----------



## incredulousity (Oct 26, 2022)

Somatic said:


> So has anyone compared the performance and standard version using the same tubes? I’m guessing not.
> 
> I’m starting to lean towards standard similar to @nwavesailor thoughts. Not sure if the upgraded copper will make a big difference.
> 
> ...


I have. The difference is real. But not really big. They accidentally sent me the non-performance version at first, and subsequently replaced it. The tubes make a bigger difference than which version of the amp, and the FM tubes are a bit better than the ones on the stock non performance version.

If money is an issue, it is better spent on a set of Elrog (either version), or AN 4300E, and optionally on some NOS 6SN7 alternatives.

Of the "cheap" 300B alternatives, I think that the Gold Lion 300B is slightly better than the Full Music tubes.


----------



## Somatic

incredulousity said:


> I have. The difference is real. But not really big. They accidentally sent me the non-performance version at first, and subsequently replaced it. The tubes make a bigger difference than which version of the amp, and the FM tubes are a bit better than the ones on the stock non performance version.
> 
> If money is an issue, it is better spent on a set of Elrog (either version), or AN 4300E, and optionally on some NOS 6SN7 alternatives.


Ok cool. Glad to hear the difference is not big. Spoke with Upscale Audio seems the standard / oak wait is longer. 

Now I’m trying to decide between Oak and Walnut. Someone here has a walnut with some red hues. Looks amazing. Then some walnut looks a lot darker and boring. 

The oak when it’s darker is fine to me but lighter oak is not my jam. Still debating. 

Wait is currently about 1 month. On new orders. FYI.


----------



## ThanatosVI

incredulousity said:


> Of the "cheap" 300B alternatives, I think that the Gold Lion 300B is slightly better than the Full Music tubes.


Most prefer it the other way round
Doesn't the regular Version even come with Gold lions while the performance comes with Fullmusic tubes?


----------



## ThanatosVI

Somatic said:


> Ok cool. Glad to hear the difference is not big. Spoke with Upscale Audio seems the standard / oak wait is longer.
> 
> Now I’m trying to decide between Oak and Walnut. Someone here has a walnut with some red hues. Looks amazing. Then some walnut looks a lot darker and boring.
> 
> ...


I recommend to write directly to Feliks Audio and put your sales Person from Upscale Audio on CC.
Feliks Audio does acknowledge your preferences like "darker shade" etc.
On the Standard options like Oak or American Walnut they will potentially Show you a few of the current batch and let you choose the exact unit. 
They only want the sale to be covered by the distributor therefore add him on CC


----------



## zen87192

Received these today... very handsome! No sign of my Envy though... It's currently a case of 'all the gear.. no f@*&?%g idea!! 🤣


----------



## Somatic

paradoxper said:


> I serve you.
> Follow your listening preference:
> 
> WE 300B is the traditional standard: warm and rich. Also rolled and bloated.
> ...


I'm going with WE 300b and either the ER or MO Elrogs. With MO Elrogs, does it sound like SS? Does it have tube qualities? Any warmth at all or very very neutral. Thanks.


----------



## paradoxper

Somatic said:


> I'm going with WE 300b and either the ER or MO Elrogs. With MO Elrogs, does it sound like SS? Does it have tube qualities? Any warmth at all or very very neutral. Thanks.


The Mo is decisively the most solid state-like tube I've heard in that the prowess of extension and control is very tight but the sense of space, cue and inner detail is the best any tube can present. They're more neutral but more natural.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

zen87192 said:


> Received these today... very handsome! No sign of my Envy though... It's currently a case of 'all the gear.. no f@*&?%g idea!! 🤣


I know those tubes...


----------



## ColSaulTigh

paradoxper said:


> The Mo is decisively the most solid state-like tube I've heard in that the prowess of extension and control is very tight but the sense of space, cue and inner detail is the best any tube can present. They're more neutral but more natural.


I concur.  Depending on your amp, changing the driver tubes can help with color.  Assuming you're using the Envy, try some RCA Grey Glass 6SN7 if you want more warmth, Melz 1578 if you want brightness/crispness, or Tung-Sol 6F8G's (with adapters) if you want slick/wetness sounding.  YMMV.


----------



## Somatic

ColSaulTigh said:


> I concur.  Depending on your amp, changing the driver tubes can help with color.  Assuming you're using the Envy, try some RCA Grey Glass 6SN7 if you want more warmth, Melz 1578 if you want brightness/crispness, or Tung-Sol 6F8G's (with adapters) if you want slick/wetness sounding.  YMMV.


Hmm I see. So if the driver tubes can color the sound. Why would one go with ERs vs MO other than price? Thanks.

Also, what do you mean by slick/wetness. I am looking for holographic, euphonic midrange. Warm tilt would be nice. Thanks.


----------



## zen87192

ColSaulTigh said:


> I know those tubes...


Yes my friend.... thanks to your input I was able to secure a pair of these with one of our favourite sellers... BuenosAres_Radio. Cheers! 🍻


----------



## incredulousity

ThanatosVI said:


> Most prefer it the other way round
> Doesn't the regular Version even come with Gold lions while the performance comes with Fullmusic tubes?


No. The standard version comes with other tubes, which, though not awful, are not as good as either FM or GL. Between the latter two, objectively I'd say its a wash, but I slightly prefer the GL. I actually like both, but they are not in the class of Elrog, or even AN 4300E.


----------



## ThanatosVI

incredulousity said:


> No. The standard version comes with other tubes, which, though not awful, are not as good as either FM or GL. Between the latter two, objectively I'd say its a wash, but I slightly prefer the GL. I actually like both, but they are not in the class of Elrog, or even AN 4300E.


You're right,  just checked on the Website.
Electro Harmonix are the Stock Tubes


----------



## Somatic

Does anyone buy from TubeDepot? Seems the prices are higher. Reputable?

Also, should one spring for "Balanced Triodes", "High Gain", "Low Noise & Microphonics", "Matching" options? Thanks.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Somatic said:


> Does anyone buy from TubeDepot? Seems the prices are higher. Reputable?
> 
> Also, should one spring for "Balanced Triodes", "High Gain", "Low Noise & Microphonics", "Matching" options? Thanks.


I've bought from them before, but haven't in a while.  Definitely splurge for the tube matching service.  That price is pretty good, depending on the year and if they've got original boxes.  For comparison, *here's an eBay listing from a guy here in Orlando* (fairly well known) selling the same for $80 more...


----------



## MichalZZZZ

Hello,

I have Abyss 1266 Phi TC and ordered Feliks Envy. My DAC is Holo May KTE. My question is - treble is not too sharp with Elrog Mo tubes? Anyone using these tubes with Abyss?

I also have Niimbus US5 Pro and the treble with these headphones is excellent.


----------



## Somatic

Is it possible to get dealer pricing on the Envy? If so, please PM. Thanks.


----------



## Somatic

ColSaulTigh said:


> I've bought from them before, but haven't in a while.  Definitely splurge for the tube matching service.  That price is pretty good, depending on the year and if they've got original boxes.  For comparison, *here's an eBay listing from a guy here in Orlando* (fairly well known) selling the same for $80 more...


So people know this is what their services are.

Balanced triodes: Preamp tubes have two triodes on the inside of them.  We measure the gain on both of these triodes, if both triodes have the same amount of gain you get an even distribution of tone.  This is recommended for Hi-Fi applications, not guitar amp applications.

High gain: Preamp tubes have a certain amount of gain factor, 12AX7's have a gain factor of 100 (the highest of all preamp tubes), 12AT7s a gain factor of about 50, 12AU7's a gain factor of 19/20.  With high gain testing, we test the tubes to see if they have more gain than they normally would.  Unless requested, I don't go out of my way to recommend this.  I would only recommend this if you are a guitarist who wants more gain.

Low Noise & Microphonics: With this, we test the tubes to see if they have as little noise and microphonics as possible.  I highly recommend this for any application.

Matching: If someone requests matching for 2 or more tubes, we test to see that all the tubes have the same amount of gain factor.  This isn't necessarily the same thing as balanced triodes.  Balanced triodes means both triodes within a single tube have the same gain factor.  Matching means all the tubes have the same gain factor.  If you had requested balanced AND matching, then all the triodes in every tube would have the same amount of gain factor.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Not on topic but some might be interested in New Feliks entries


----------



## SlothRock

ThanatosVI said:


> Not on topic but some might be interested in New Feliks entries



Wow! What a departure in looks but I think I kinda love the new volume nob. Balanced now!? Wonder if this can power a Susvara


----------



## Newsee

ThanatosVI said:


> Not on topic but some might be interested in New Feliks entries


From where? Google does not find it. (Or me with google, better to say).


----------



## Deceneu808

Newsee said:


> From where? Google does not find it. (Or me with google, better to say).


Feliks Audio Facebook page


----------



## Somatic

ThanatosVI said:


> Not on topic but some might be interested in New Feliks entries


Envy is still their flagship, correct?


----------



## incredulousity (Oct 27, 2022)

I presume it is still a 6SN7 and 6AS7 amp, correct?

I like the addition of the balanced output.


----------



## Somatic

MHLC said:


> Tempting....I wonder what should I tell my wife


Just buy it and hope it blends in with everything. "oh this little thing" ... hand warmer ...


----------



## ThanatosVI

SlothRock said:


> Wow! What a departure in looks but I think I kinda love the new volume nob. Balanced now!? Wonder if this can power a Susvara


I immediately inquired about what changed and if there will also be an Elise Evo.

To me it looks like a Euforia with a 4-pin XLR for convenience. 
It certainly won't power the Susvara. I don't think an OTL ever does, and for an additional transformer I don't see the space.


----------



## duas2noites

I'm thinking of pair my Stealth with Envy, need some feedback about this combo.


----------



## Somatic

Ok bought the Walnut Standard Envy. Now time to buy some Elrogs and see what all this fuss is about  ... Must join Cult of Elrog ...


----------



## nwavesailor

You will be one happy guy, @Somatic!

As I mentioned I don't have 'bat' ears and doubt I could hear the difference between one premium type of copper wire and another. I also knew I'd be upgrading to better 300b tubes and could not justify the additional cost of the premium version for copper wire.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Somatic said:


> Ok bought the Walnut Standard Envy. Now time to buy some Elrogs and see what all this fuss is about  ... Must join Cult of Elrog ...


Impressive!  We've convinced him to buy an $8k amp solely on the hype of the tubes!!!


----------



## ThanatosVI

ColSaulTigh said:


> Impressive!  We've convinced him to buy an $8k amp solely on the hype of the tubes!!!


Obviously worth it!


----------



## turbofeet

I haven't even heard Elrogs yet and yet I'm really pleased for the guy 😄


----------



## nwavesailor

turbofeet said:


> I haven't even heard Elrogs yet and yet I'm really pleased for the guy 😄


They really are CRAZY good.


----------



## incredulousity

nwavesailor said:


> They really are CRAZY good.


All are welcome in the House of Elrog.


----------



## Somatic

incredulousity said:


> All are welcome in the House of Elrog.


Oh ...... so no sacrificing an SS AMP to the Elrog Gods?! Blasphemy!


----------



## incredulousity

No. SS amps may associate with and bow down before the almighty Elrog, who is a benevolent and tolerant force.

But I expect Bliss and Envy/Elrog to be good buds in the near future.


----------



## turbofeet

Thanks I can't wait; I'm told it won't be too much longer. The supplier had to buy a big batch and said they are pretty much all already sold.


----------



## paradoxper

Somatic said:


> Ok bought the Walnut Standard Envy. Now time to buy some Elrogs and see what all this fuss is about  ... Must join Cult of Elrog ...


Welcome!


----------



## Somatic

Just curious, would Envy with stock Standard tubes outperform the Ferrum stack? Just curious on the type of performance delta I should be expecting. Thanks.


----------



## incredulousity

My ER 300B just arrived. I better hurry home!


----------



## Somatic

incredulousity said:


> My ER 300B just arrived. I better hurry home!


Let us know first impressions. Hope you like it.


----------



## incredulousity

First impressions after 15 minutes warm up. These will be better than the Mo with PSVane on Envy. Mo will be better with the 1578 and I expect VT-231. Choices are good. These obviously improve with burn in, but I can see the difference already.


----------



## alekc

Somatic said:


> Just curious, would Envy with stock Standard tubes outperform the Ferrum stack? Just curious on the type of performance delta I should be expecting. Thanks.


@Somatic while I haven't heard Envy standard edition with stock tubes I bet it would. Those are so different amps. From SS amps I know only one I know that would be a keeper and that is AuroraSound HEADA. At the end it all comes down to your taste and chain but I'm still betting Envy is better


----------



## Somatic

incredulousity said:


> First impressions after 15 minutes warm up. These will be better than the Mo with PSVane on Envy. Mo will be better with the 1578 and I expect VT-231. Choices are good. These obviously improve with burn in, but I can see the difference already.


Which Psvane tube? How would you compare the ER and MO with same driver tubes? What is the main take away? MOs are sold out. Thinking of getting ERs right now. Still debating.


----------



## incredulousity (Oct 28, 2022)

The stock PSVanes for Envy. I think that many people will prefer the ERs. I will reserve details of comparison until they have 100 hours on them, but I expect that my impressions will be similar to those of @paradoxper.


----------



## mfgillia

incredulousity said:


> The stock PSVanes for Envy. I think that many people will prefer the ERs. I will reserve details of comparison until they have 100 hours on them, but I expect that my impressions will be similar to those of @paradoxper.


I believe that's the Psvane Treasure CV181-T MKII Series. I was also considering getting those to pair with my Elrog ER300Bs and Cayin HA-300 MKII.


----------



## incredulousity (Oct 28, 2022)

Correct. Those are the ones. They are fast, punchy, and detailed. They demand that you roll the 300Bs for your own optimal sound. They pair well with tubes that are of at least  slightly warmer character than they are.


----------



## Somatic

zen87192 said:


> Apparently, the High End Audio Fuses (Synergistic Research) use a particular premium Graphene UEF compound that reduces the Noise Floor.
> Whoa…!! I sound intelligent don’t I !! 😂 That info was borrowed from the website that sells them. They retail out at about £190.00/$212.00


I use SR Purples on all my Farad3s powering the Dave and currently the Hypsos. Will definitely use it on the Envy.


----------



## zen87192

Somatic said:


> I use SR Purples on all my Farad3s powering the Dave and currently the Hypsos. Will definitely use it on the Envy.


Yes... same here.  The DAVE sounds so much better overall with the Farad supplies and associated upgrades with SR Purple Fuses. My incoming Envy will be treated to a Fuse as well.


----------



## Somatic

zen87192 said:


> Yes... same here.  The DAVE sounds so much better overall with the Farad supplies and associated upgrades with SR Purple Fuses. My incoming Envy will be treated to a Fuse as well.


Nice, we will have the same setup other than source. Dope.

Any reason you went with the Envy as well?


----------



## turbofeet

Just put purple fuse in my Bartok...needs 300hrs burn in apparently. Sounds a little cleaner maybe but too early to tell.

I see the Envy fuse can be changed too.


----------



## Somatic

Anyone tried running IEMs off the Envy? I really like my Final A8000 at times. Wondering if noise floor would be too high?

Also, I'll be new to tubes ... do these TOTL tube amps similar to Envy have microphonics, pick up RF/Bluetooth/LTE/Wifi noise? Also, if it does pick up vibrations, if one has a 2.1 speaker setup, wouldn't the resulting viibration from the soundwaves get picked up by the tubes on the amp?

Sorry for these simple questions, diving head first into tubes. Learning as I go. They look so sexy lol ...


----------



## Somatic

turbofeet said:


> Just put purple fuse in my Bartok...needs 300hrs burn in apparently. Sounds a little cleaner maybe but too early to tell.
> 
> I see the Envy fuse can be changed too.


I think new SR Purples sound warmer and less detailed to me at frist. Once broken in they tend to get more linear and lose most of the warmth. Very detailed, neutral. Sound good.

I actually prefered the SR Purples on the Ferrum stack before they were burnt is, even though they were rolled off. My system is a bit bright to me so this helped, once it broke in it sounded better but lost a lot of the warmth. That is also a reason I am getting into tubes. 

Probably will get Elrog ER or Mo & WE 300bs. Get best of both worlds. Still trying to find the NOS 6SN7s I want for them.

*Ok, back to work. Back to work. Back to work .... I can do this LOL ....


----------



## Somatic (Oct 28, 2022)

Anyone have a picture of the insides of the Envy? See how it was constructed and the parts they use?

Edit: Found video on their Facebook page ...

https://www.facebook.com/feliksaudio 

Posted August 18th


----------



## incredulousity

Somatic said:


> Anyone have a picture of the insides of the Envy? See how it was constructed and the parts they use?
> 
> Edit: Found video on their Facebook page ...
> 
> ...


That video is, sadly, very low resolution. Interesting though. 

I use UM MEST Indigo balanced out of Envy quite often. It sounds great, and better than in any other amp. Impressive that those scale up this well, actually.


----------



## zen87192 (Oct 28, 2022)

Somatic said:


> Nice, we will have the same setup other than source. Dope.
> 
> Any reason you went with the Envy as well?


I was at the London CanJam this year and heard the Envy with a few Headphones.... whatever was plugged into it sounded fabulous. This is a rare occurrence. The only other Headphone Amp that did that was the Zahl HM-1. I wanted to steer away from SS so went Tubes. I've purchased some Elrogs and TS 6F8G's (dated 1950) to roll soon. Just want to hear the initial sound signature of the stock Envy for a while before rolling. Can't wait.....


----------



## Somatic

zen87192 said:


> I was at the London CanJam this year and heard the Envy with a few Headphones.... whatever was plugged into it sounded fabulous. This is a rare occurrence. The only other Headphone Amp that did that was the Zahl HM-1. I wanted to steer away from SS so went Tubes. I've purchased some Elrogs and TS 6F8G's (dated 1950) to roll soon. Just want to hear the initial sound signature of the stock Envy for a while before rolling. Can't wait.....


ER or Mo? Yes, I heard from people that HM-1 and Envy's were the talk of the show. I also wanted to get into tubes.


----------



## jonathan c

Elrog ER or Elrog MO….🤔? Perhaps D-E-M GmbH will introduce a Sesame Street ‘hybrid’ with red glass:  ELMO…🤣


----------



## Somatic

jonathan c said:


> Elrog ER or Elrog MO….🤔? Perhaps D-E-M GmbH will introduce a Sesame Street ‘hybrid’ with red glass:  ELMO…🤣


LOL ...

How do you have so many likes, must be with all these zingers


----------



## paradoxper

There is already a hybrid. TM300B. And yes, it is even better.


----------



## normie610

paradoxper said:


> There is already a hybrid. TM300B. And yes, it is even better.


You just got them?? How??


----------



## ColSaulTigh

paradoxper said:


> There is already a hybrid. TM300B. And yes, it is even better.


Dibs when you get bored with them.


----------



## Somatic

paradoxper said:


> There is already a hybrid. TM300B. And yes, it is even better.


Sell me your other Elrogs


----------



## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> You just got them?? How??


The Binding. 

Are the Gods not pleased.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

paradoxper said:


> The Binding.
> 
> Are the Gods not pleased.


Manna from heaven!


----------



## arthurito

Somatic said:


> Anyone tried running IEMs off the Envy? I really like my Final A8000 at times. Wondering if noise floor would be too high?
> 
> Also, I'll be new to tubes ... do these TOTL tube amps similar to Envy have microphonics, pick up RF/Bluetooth/LTE/Wifi noise? Also, if it does pick up vibrations, if one has a 2.1 speaker setup, wouldn't the resulting viibration from the soundwaves get picked up by the tubes on the amp?
> 
> Sorry for these simple questions, diving head first into tubes. Learning as I go. They look so sexy lol ...


Yes, Mad24 are awesome, low gain!


----------



## Somatic

paradoxper said:


> The Binding.
> 
> Are the Gods not pleased.


They are pleased. Very.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Somatic said:


> They are pleased. Very.


How could they not be pleased with their prophet?


----------



## Somatic

ThanatosVI said:


> How could they not be pleased with their prophet?






The eyes emanate from the Gods of Elrog ...


----------



## incredulousity

Interested in your comparative impressions, when you have them. Are they a variant of Mo or ER, or something different entirely?


----------



## incredulousity

Somatic said:


> ER or Mo? Yes, I heard from people that HM-1 and Envy's were the talk of the show. I also wanted to get into tubes.


I’m hoping that Holo Bliss will be sufficient to keep me from wanting the Zähl HM-1, as it should be half the price.


----------



## genefruit

incredulousity said:


> I’m hoping that Holo Bliss will be sufficient to keep me from wanting the Zähl HM-1, as it should be half the price.


I think at this point someone is supposed to say CFA-3...


----------



## Somatic

Anyone know EDIS Ogonowski? He made the output & mains transformers on the Envy.

https://www.monoandstereo.com/2013/09/interview-with-leszek-ogonowski.html

Another cool thing I saw was the Jantzen Superior Z-Cap coupling capacitors. Anyone have used these before? Looks like they are from Denmark. The part doesn't seem that expensive.


----------



## Somatic

Can someone explain to me why the Envy does not use tube rectification? What is the pros/cons of this kind of setup? Thanks.


----------



## paradoxper

ThanatosVI said:


> How could they not be pleased with their prophet?


Wrong cult. Don't tell Gilmore.


----------



## LoryWiv

Somatic said:


> LOL ...
> 
> How do you have so many likes, must be with all these zingers


@jonathan c is a very likable guy.


----------



## Somatic

Joined the cult. Envy 1 + month away but wanted these ready for when it came. Seems default PSvane 6SN7 ok for now. Will try and buy some NOS in the meantime and wait for WE's new 6sn7 as well.

What are good 6sn7 combinations with the Elrog ER?

Looking to buy the WE 300b as well. Have something complimentary. 

Edit: Was afraid these would sell out similar to Mos and didn't want to wait. As you can tell, I don't have much patience.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Somatic said:


> Joined the cult. Envy 1 + month away but wanted these ready for when it came. Seems default PSvane 6SN7 ok for now. Will try and buy some NOS in the meantime and wait for WE's new 6sn7 as well.
> 
> What are good 6sn7 combinations with the Elrog ER?
> 
> ...


Elrog-worthy 6SN7's (and variants):

Melz 1578
Tung Sol 6F8G (require adapters)
RCA Grey Glass 6SN7GT
Sylvania 7N7 (require adapters)

I'm sure there are plenty of others out there, but...

FIRST!


----------



## Somatic

ColSaulTigh said:


> Elrog-worthy 6SN7's (and variants):
> 
> Melz 1578
> Tung Sol 6F8G (require adapters)
> ...


$675 for a pair of Melz 1578 a fair price in this market? What questions should I ask before buying? Thanks.


----------



## nwavesailor (Oct 29, 2022)

I'd agree with the TS 6F8G and Metz 1578.

I'd add TS round plate and WW ll era Raytheon 6SN7 as well. Not as taken by the RCA's but YMMV. The RCA are good but not in the same league as the others listed.


----------



## Somatic

Damn. Where do I find these? Any reputable EBay dealers or independent tube sellers online that you can recommend?


----------



## zen87192

Yup... 6F8G's even look good with adaptors!


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Somatic said:


> $675 for a pair of Melz 1578 a fair price in this market? What questions should I ask before buying? Thanks.


A bit high.  Somewhere in the $500-$550 range is more the norm.

I'd ask of they make any noise, if the pins have had the solder reflowed, and what year they are.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Somatic said:


> Damn. Where do I find these? Any reputable EBay dealers or independent tube sellers online that you can recommend?


The Melz are getting hard to find.  My current contact (in the Ukraine) is not available right now.

The 6F8G's can be had in the same price range.  On eBay, look for "BuenosAires_Radio".  Send him a message and tell him I sent you.  Hell create a listing for you.

The adapters are Woo Audio.  They're expensive but worth it.


----------



## incredulousity

If anyone with an Envy 120V version has replaced the stock fuse, could you please share the size and spec of the fuse? I can’t find the info online, and there is no TFM to R. Thanks.

(I’m away from my Envy and can’t look myself before the PC sale on SR Purples ends.)


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Appears to be a 1.6a T Fuse (Slow-Blo)




So it SHOULD be this one:

*https://www.partsconnexion.com/FUSESRPP-88811.html*


----------



## incredulousity (Oct 29, 2022)

Thanks!

And the size 5x20 for sure?

Sadly PC is sold out!


----------



## ColSaulTigh

incredulousity said:


> Thanks!
> 
> And the size 5x20 for sure?
> 
> Sadly PC is sold out!


I'm pretty sure, yes.  All of the other Feliks amps use 5x20.  Check *Highend Electronics*, they're running the same special (which I think is actually sponsored by Synergistic Research.


----------



## Somatic

Does everyone have the digital manual for the Envy? If not, here you go.


----------



## zen87192 (Oct 30, 2022)

Anyone running Susvara out of their Envy? If so, please offer some info. Many thanks.

oppps… just did a search on this thread and got my answers. Sorry…🙄


----------



## ThanatosVI

Impressions from warsaw:
They learned fast that Elrogs put the amp on the next level.
Also first shot with the Euforia + tube protection mesh. The new style looks gorgeous imo.q


----------



## Somatic

ThanatosVI said:


> Impressions from warsaw:
> They learned fast that Elrogs put the amp on the next level.
> Also first shot with the Euforia + tube protection mesh. The new style looks gorgeous imo.q


Damn, cant see from the pick. ERs or MOs? Using stock driver tube? How did you like the sound? Thanks.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Somatic said:


> Damn, cant see from the pick. ERs or MOs? Using stock driver tube? How did you like the sound? Thanks.


Pics aren't be best, but they look like ER's.  I don't see any nuts holding the plates together that the Mo's use.


----------



## incredulousity

ERs with the stock 6SN7 are fantastic on mine with less than 20 hours on them. If all the tubes are broken in, they may sell a lot of amps from that demo. 

Then the Elrog tubes will be that much more difficult to obtain!


----------



## TonyNewman

ColSaulTigh said:


> Appears to be a 1.6a T Fuse (Slow-Blo)
> 
> 
> So it SHOULD be this one:
> ...



That looks odd to me. I would have expected twice the voltage to use a fuse with half the Amp rating. V = IR. P = VI.


----------



## incredulousity

I thought that was odd too.


----------



## TonyNewman

incredulousity said:


> I thought that was odd too.



Maybe the different voltages use a different resistance value? Makes very little sense to me. My electrical knowledge tops out with V = IR / P = VI. 

I hope it isn't a typo and folks are using inappropriate fuse values - that could turn nasty.


----------



## moosemp

ThanatosVI said:


> Impressions from warsaw:
> They learned fast that Elrogs put the amp on the next level.
> Also first shot with the Euforia + tube protection mesh. The new style looks gorgeous imo.q


I was in Warsaw too. Feliks audio had nice stand, busy all The time. As usually very nice and profesional conversation,all amps ready to listen too. 
There was almost all The gear one needs to listen when choosing his hp, amp, cable or accessories, so I DO THINK Warsaw ought to be a place for Can JAM once. Competent and friendly staff, not very noisy place without dedicated booths, a lot of items to choose from. Almost all new products were there, also some other interesting Polish companies. And in addition you have also interesting Audio Video show in The same location-like in Munich. Absolutely worth visit.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Somatic said:


> Damn, cant see from the pick. ERs or MOs? Using stock driver tube? How did you like the sound? Thanks.


Those pics were shared from Feliks Audio on their social Media.
Unfortunately I wasn't there and couldn't listen.

I'm sure that I'd be loving the sound  since the Envy + Elrog is whst I want to buy after my Octave is sold.


----------



## Somatic

ColSaulTigh said:


> Appears to be a 1.6a T Fuse (Slow-Blo)
> 
> 
> So it SHOULD be this one:
> ...



On the fuse - it’s a “topik” type *1.6A , 20mm.*

- Lukasz


----------



## Somatic

ThanatosVI said:


> Those pics were shared from Feliks Audio on their social Media.
> Unfortunately I wasn't there and couldn't listen.
> 
> I'm sure that I'd be loving the sound  since the Envy + Elrog is whst I want to buy after my Octave is sold.


Just curious, what makes you think the Envy is better than the Octave you have? I don't know much about the Octave. Sorry for my ignorance.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Somatic said:


> Just curious, what makes you think the Envy is better than the Octave you have? I don't know much about the Octave. Sorry for my ignorance.


Honestly don't think that it will sound better at all.
However it certainly looks better and imo is the aesthetically most pleasing amp ever.

I want to believe that they will sound equally good but with a different flavor. There is a real chance that the Octave sounds better though.

Not gonna lie, the hype about Elrog tubes somewhat feeds into this and I want to experience it as well...

Ergo similar sound quality with better aesthetics = worth a change.


----------



## Somatic

ThanatosVI said:


> Honestly don't think that it will sound better at all.
> However it certainly looks better and imo is the aesthetically most pleasing amp ever.
> 
> I want to believe that they will sound equally good but with a different flavor. There is a real chance that the Octave sounds better though.
> ...


Yes, these Elrogs also got me as well haha. I’ll receive the Elrogs in a few days. Probably a month before my amp. Haha. 

Trying to snag some Melz 1578. I think I found 2 pairs of ‘63. We shall see.


----------



## Somatic

So for anyone that wants confirmation. This is the exact fuse you need if you want to get SR Purples ... 

Verified with Lukasz ... I like these fuses a lot. Definitely buying some but not sure if I want to buy 1 or 2 so I get one free. I just don't see these going out often so not sure I need 3 fuses?


----------



## zen87192

I'll buy the free one from you for 100.00 !! 😉


----------



## Somatic

zen87192 said:


> I'll buy the free one from you for 100.00 !! 😉


SOLD! I'll let you know what shipping is. Please PM. I will ping you when I get them. $150 each is not bad. Merry XMAS.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Somatic said:


> So for anyone that wants confirmation. This is the exact fuse you need if you want to get SR Purples ...
> 
> Verified with Lukasz ... I like these fuses a lot. Definitely buying some but not sure if I want to buy 1 or 2 so I get one free. I just don't see these going out often so not sure I need 3 fuses?


I use the same one in my Octave. Can even keep the fuse when I switch


----------



## Somatic

Oooh, now that we are talking about replacing fuses. Does someone have a picture of the compartment where the fuse resides? The SR Purples presumably are flow dependent. If someone takes a picture, I can ping Lukasz and see where the flow is going. I guess we can use ear as well, which I ended up resorting for the Ferrum but would like a definite answer from the Designers of the amp. Thanks.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Somatic said:


> So for anyone that wants confirmation. This is the exact fuse you need if you want to get SR Purples ...
> 
> Verified with Lukasz ... I like these fuses a lot. Definitely buying some but not sure if I want to buy 1 or 2 so I get one free. I just don't see these going out often so not sure I need 3 fuses?


250v in a US system?  I'd think that's a European fuse, but I'm no expert.


----------



## Somatic (Oct 31, 2022)

ColSaulTigh said:


> 250v in a US system?  I'd think that's a European fuse, but I'm no expert.


Just spoke to support. 250v means 250v of protection. This is for the smaller fuses. The bigger fuses use 500v of protection. The only thing one needs to know is the size, amperage and if its fast or slo blo.

Edit: Also I used the 250v small fuse slo blo version for the Oor and it worked flawlessly. I'm learning things everday. @ColSaulTigh , you almost gave me a heart attack  ...


----------



## moosemp

ThanatosVI said:


> Honestly don't think that it will sound better at all.
> However it certainly looks better and imo is the aesthetically most pleasing amp ever.
> 
> I want to believe that they will sound equally good but with a different flavor. There is a real chance that the Octave sounds better though.
> ...


I decided to keep Octave when ordering ENVY in 2021 since I appreciate this amp’s versatility, power 3D imaging and first of all expolosive  dynamics. Tubes rolling options are countless, EL 34 and KT88 i currently use give me all I need. But ENVY is different in many aspects , not better. Just different and it is a pleasure to switch between them.


----------



## ThanatosVI

moosemp said:


> I decided to keep Octave when ordering ENVY in 2021 since I appreciate this amp’s versatility, power 3D imaging and first of all expolosive  dynamics. Tubes rolling options are countless, EL 34 and KT88 i currently use give me all I need. But ENVY is different in many aspects , not better. Just different and it is a pleasure to switch between them.


Wouldn't have thought to find someone who owns both.

If you don't mind, I'd like to pm you some questions to make sure I don't regret selling mine.


----------



## Newsee

ThanatosVI said:


> Wouldn't have thought to find someone who owns both.
> 
> If you don't mind, I'd like to pm you some questions to make sure I don't regret selling mine.


I think the difference is of public interest. At least I am very interested as well.


----------



## Somatic

Wondering if the SE and XLR outputs have the same power? I have a Lavricables Grand in SE 1/4inch and seeing if I need to reterminate or not. On the Oor, the SE has a lot less output than XLR, FYI.


----------



## turbofeet

Somatic said:


> Wondering if the SE and XLR outputs have the same power? I have a Lavricables Grand in SE 1/4inch and seeing if I need to reterminate or not. On the Oor, the SE has a lot less output than XLR, FYI.


Sounds about the same volume to me from either output. Just tested it. Still great from 6.3mm.


----------



## moosemp

Some of my remarks as for comparison OCTAVE with ENVY-
Octave v16 without black box;
I did not mess with driver tubes, EF800 is virtually impossible to change, ECC82 is not easy to replace since it is put deep intro amp chassis. I have a lot of 12au7 for Riviera and I will try to roll it- in Riviera results are far beyond any expectations. As for power tubes I started with standard TungsolKT120 with average result, so I switched to KT150- much more satisfying. Now I USE Svetlana winged c KT88 that I do like and Valvo EL34- both charming , typically tubey sound with a lot of power and detail, good 3D presentation. 
I do not consider ENVY or Octave better from one another, but rather use it depending on my mood for specifis music presentation, both amps are excellent.
Most important feature in V16 sound is imho its powerful yet detailed and highly musical presentation, authority that people describe often as iron fist in velvet glove. ENVY is for me second in this respect, but by small margin. I would attribute this Octave advantage to The very nature of tubes used, especially KT88.
Both amps have similar extension in high frequency, Octave goes lower in bass. This is very much dependent of power tubes used too.
Octave with softly sounding EL34 has much more tubey character than any other amp except for Ayon HA3-unbeatable in this respect.
Best dynamics-Octave with KT150, but you loose some thrilling delicacy.
tube rolling- unlimited , I DID not experiment with 6SN7, no need for it now imho, but I will try in future definitely
Noice floor- very very lowlevel in both, Octave better by small margin, and I do listen loud.
I do not have clear preferences of music genres between amps, although for EM, rock and roll, blues I use Octave more often, for jazz and classical- ENVY

headphones used- ABYSS TC1266 most of The time, Focal Utopia classic model, ZMF Verite closed and open, Meze Empyrean.
Susvara in future , maybe something else too


THESE ARE OF COURSE MY SUBJECTIVE FEELINGS AND OPINIONS

Summing up- I would not get rid of Octave, which has a lot of sonic advantages and nothing important to worry about.
And I defitely recommend ENVY


----------



## Somatic

moosemp said:


> Some of my remarks as for comparison OCTAVE with ENVY-
> Octave v16 without black box;
> I did not mess with driver tubes, EF800 is virtually impossible to change, ECC82 is not easy to replace since it is put deep intro amp chassis. I have a lot of 12au7 for Riviera and I will try to roll it- in Riviera results are far beyond any expectations. As for power tubes I started with standard TungsolKT120 with average result, so I switched to KT150- much more satisfying. Now I USE Svetlana winged c KT88 that I do like and Valvo EL34- both charming , typically tubey sound with a lot of power and detail, good 3D presentation.
> I do not consider ENVY or Octave better from one another, but rather use it depending on my mood for specifis music presentation, both amps are excellent.
> ...


Are you using stock standard or performance tubes on the Envy? Wondering if your thoughts would change if you tube rolled some Elrogs and some good NOS 6SN7s. Thanks


----------



## moosemp

Please look at my previous posts🎶🎶


----------



## Somatic

moosemp said:


> Please look at my previous posts🎶🎶


Ok got it. You have Elrogs etc. Ok good to know. Thanks for your info.


----------



## ThanatosVI

New Euforia Evo is now on the Website.
Unfortunately the Envy received a noteable price increase. The Walnut performance Version clocks now in at 8000€ up from 7200€ previously.  Fml


----------



## Deceneu808

ThanatosVI said:


> New Euforia Evo is now on the Website.
> Unfortunately the Envy received a noteable price increase. The Walnut performance Version clocks now in at 8000€ up from 7200€ previously.  Fml


I did not expect that. Even the Elise has been bumped to 1799. That's a lot considering that a year ago it was 1399, then bumped to 1599 and now this. Even the Echo is 899 from 799. At least the new EVO is 400 cheaper than the AE. Honestly I'm kind of confused about their pricing scheme and can't really tell what's worth it anymore.


----------



## Somatic

Anyone in the US wants to buy new SR Purples for the Envy? I got the buy 2 get 1 free deal. But owning 3 fuses seems excessive lol.

I am selling it for only $100 plus shipping. Great deal as they are $200 a pop. Early XMAS ...


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Somatic said:


> Anyone in the US wants to buy new SR Purples for the Envy? I got the buy 2 get 1 free deal. But owning 3 fuses seems excessive lol.
> 
> I am selling it for only $100 plus shipping. Great deal as they are $200 a pop. Early XMAS ...


List it in the Classifieds, someone will take you up on it.


----------



## moosemp

Due to global and internal situation in our country inflation rate is 17%now and growing . Polish currency exchange rate to USD or Euro increased similarly. I guess we have to take it into account discussing prices.


----------



## ThanatosVI (Nov 5, 2022)

Due to these new developments I adjusted my plans. Instead of saving up for the Bog Oak Version (+3k, so ~10k total) I decided to go with a regular Walnut Version.

I pulled the trigger just now, so the amp should be with me by end if dezember or early january.

PS:If someone needs a +1 for SR Purple fuses im Europe, I'd be interested for ~100€ (if the Deal even applies to european customers)

Funny how it took me nearly a year to finally pull the trigger.


----------



## Somatic

ColSaulTigh said:


> List it in the Classifieds, someone will take you up on it.





ThanatosVI said:


> Due to these new developments I adjusted my plans. Instead of saving up for the Bog Oak Version (+3k, so ~10k total) I decided to go with a regular Walnut Version.
> 
> I pulled the trigger just now, so the amp should be with me by end if dezember or early january.
> 
> ...


Man of class. I got the same one. Didn’t expect much from the performance version. Very curious on your thoughts.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Somatic said:


> Man of class. I got the same one. Didn’t expect much from the performance version. Very curious on your thoughts.


Well I ordered the performance Version.
"Regular" was in regards to the wood, no custom wood as initially planned.

I'm moving to a new home next month, new man cave. A few last Minute changes to AV Rack and chair and now I think the slightly more affordable American Walnut Version will be an excellent fit.

You're probably right though, going forward the performance upgrade will be rather quesionable. If I got it right the Premium for the performance Version increased from 500€ to 800€

Best part about the new decision is, that I will be able to compare the Octave with the Envy directly side by side


----------



## incredulousity

You now need to order your Elrogs!


----------



## Arcamera

That Walnut is gorgeous. And it's probably not sonically relevant, but for whatever reason I've always preferred equipment with Walnut (for instance headphones by Kennerton and Denon. Maybe imparts a slightly smoother/darker tone? At least in transducers). Congrats.


----------



## ThanatosVI

incredulousity said:


> You now need to order your Elrogs!


Since I bought it without selling anything and I have the costs of moving this year, the Elrogs have to wait till next year. They will come though, that's guaranteed 


Arcamera said:


> That Walnut is gorgeous. And it's probably not sonically relevant, but for whatever reason I've always preferred equipment with Walnut (for instance headphones by Kennerton and Denon. Maybe imparts a slightly smoother/darker tone? At least in transducers). Congrats.


Yeah I love Walnut. My desk has walnut my chair has some walnut elements. It will be tastefully sprinkled around the room.
It's my favourite wood for sure. (I also love bog oak, but one can't really use it heavily due to price)


----------



## Toonartist

ThanatosVI said:


> Well I ordered the performance Version.
> "Regular" was in regards to the wood, no custom wood as initially planned.
> 
> I'm moving to a new home next month, new man cave. A few last Minute changes to AV Rack and chair and now I think the slightly more affordable American Walnut Version will be an excellent fit.
> ...


Or keep them both?!?


----------



## ThanatosVI

Toonartist said:


> Or keep them both?!?


At this point this is the most likely scenario.
I will at least compare them and if both have a strong personal character I will keep both.

If one sounds significantly better for my taste I will sell the other.


----------



## Toonartist

Sounds like a good plan. Given how much the Octave V16 + Super Black box cost and how much you'd make off it, it would be nice to keep it if space allows etc.


----------



## 1Audiophool

Somatic said:


> Anyone in the US wants to buy new SR Purples for the Envy? I got the buy 2 get 1 free deal. But owning 3 fuses seems excessive lol.
> 
> I am selling it for only $100 plus shipping. Great deal as they are $200 a pop. Early XMAS ...


Pm’d regarding the purple 👍
Ordered the Elrogs yesterday… can’t wait for that!!

 What I need now is a good power cable. I do have a bit of noise. SU-6 helped reduce it quite a bit. Anyone have any suggestions ??? Not looking for the crazy $$$ cables….something semi-reasonable, definitely  < 1,000 ?


----------



## ThanatosVI

1Audiophool said:


> Pm’d regarding the purple 👍
> Ordered the Elrogs yesterday… can’t wait for that!!
> 
> What I need now is a good power cable. I do have a bit of noise. SU-6 helped reduce it quite a bit. Anyone have any suggestions ??? Not looking for the crazy $$$ cables….something semi-reasonable, definitely  < 1,000 ?


I like NRG Custom Cables from Canada.
Certainly among the more affordable offerings.

However I can't really give comparisons to other after market cables.
They are certainly better than stock but I don't know how they compete against the expensive stuff


----------



## Toonartist (Nov 5, 2022)

1Audiophool said:


> Pm’d regarding the purple 👍
> Ordered the Elrogs yesterday… can’t wait for that!!
> 
> What I need now is a good power cable. I do have a bit of noise. SU-6 helped reduce it quite a bit. Anyone have any suggestions ??? Not looking for the crazy $$$ cables….something semi-reasonable, definitely  < 1,000 ?


You could put a very good one together very easily. I built one from top of the range Furutech NFC plugs with PowerStrada #309. By the time you add a fuse, braided sleeving and shrink wrap you'd have a really high end cable for less than £800


----------



## incredulousity (Nov 5, 2022)

1Audiophool said:


> Pm’d regarding the purple 👍
> Ordered the Elrogs yesterday… can’t wait for that!!
> 
> What I need now is a good power cable. I do have a bit of noise. SU-6 helped reduce it quite a bit. Anyone have any suggestions ??? Not looking for the crazy $$$ cables….something semi-reasonable, definitely  < 1,000 ?


I am trialing a very nice power cable from Hapa Audio that is quite moderately priced. Considerably less than $1k. I also like the iFi Nova cable as a passive cord. The SupaNova active cords should not be used after power conditioners or regenerators. In all honesty, even the cheap nice Chinese Amazon cables sound fine with Envy, though I prefer the others.

Also, I recently replaced my Furman 20A box with a Puritan PSM156, and the improvement was staggering.


----------



## incredulousity

My purple fuses arrived. Does anyone know the proper fuse orientation in Envy? If not, I’ll measure and report back.


----------



## Somatic

incredulousity said:


> My purple fuses arrived. Does anyone know the proper fuse orientation in Envy? If not, I’ll measure and report back.


Please measure and let us know. Appreciate a picture with indication which way it’s supposed to go. I was going to do it for every but don’t have Envy yet. 

I’m ready. Now just need the Envy.


----------



## incredulousity (Nov 5, 2022)

Ok. I measured. On Envy, the fuse is vertically oriented, and power flows from bottom to top. So the “S” should be down on an SR purple fuse. In fuses with arrows, the arrow should point up.

1.6A SR purple fuse, just so it’s all in one post. 

Rockin the Elrog ER300B and stock PSVane tubes. sounds spectacular.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Somatic said:


> Please measure and let us know. Appreciate a picture with indication which way it’s supposed to go. I was going to do it for every but don’t have Envy yet.
> 
> I’m ready. Now just need the Envy.


Impressive preparation, kudos to you sir


----------



## incredulousity

Clearly his priorities are influenced by this and 2 other threads. 

@Somatic Welcome to the Cult of Elrog.


----------



## Somatic

ThanatosVI said:


> Impressive preparation, kudos to you sir


Thank you. Still waiting on one more matched pair. 

I got Elrog ER300b, 2 matched pair of Melz 1578s 63’, 1 matched pair of ken rad vt231 black glass, 1 matched pair of NIB 6F8G round plate ring tsol, 1 matched pair NIB rca vt231 smoked glass. 

Got to catch them all. They were talking about tubes right?


----------



## Somatic

incredulousity said:


> Ok. I measured. On Envy, the fuse is vertically oriented, and power flows from bottom to top. So the “S” should be down on an SR purple fuse. In fuses with arrows, the arrow should point up.
> 
> 1.6A SR purple fuse, just so it’s all in one post.
> 
> Rockin the Elrog ER300B and stock PSVane tubes. sounds spectacular.


Saved as screenshot. Appreciate it.


----------



## nwavesailor

Somatic said:


> Thank you. Still waiting on one more matched pair.
> 
> I got Elrog ER300b, 2 matched pair of Melz 1578s 63’, 1 matched pair of ken rad vt231 black glass, 1 matched pair of NIB 6F8G round plate ring tsol, 1 matched pair NIB rca vt231 smoked glass.
> 
> Got to catch them all. They were talking about tubes right


You are in great shape for hearing what the Envy can do!
Really glad you snagged the TSRP 6F8G..........paired with the Elrogs they are simply stunning in the Envy.


----------



## Somatic

nwavesailor said:


> You are in great shape for hearing what the Envy can do!
> Really glad you snagged the TSRP 6F8G..........paired with the Elrogs they are simply stunning in the Envy.


Thank you. This is my first true foray into tubes. Diving straight in. Got the woo audio adapters as recommended. 

Now time to stop spending money LOL


----------



## duas2noites

Which driver tubes to use with envy? I'll use elrog 300b for Power tubes.


----------



## 1Audiophool

Somatic said:


> Thank you. This is my first true foray into tubes. Diving straight in. Got the woo audio adapters as recommended.
> 
> Now time to stop spending money LOL


FYI-Just got my Woo 6f8g adapters today… they fit too deeply/tightly into the Envy. Damaged the wire that goes to the top of the tube. Will need to get socket savers to lift the adapter up. It’s a bummer, the Woo adapters are really nicely built…can’t believe a messed it up before I even got to try it🥹


----------



## nwavesailor

Yeah, the Envy sockets are deep and do require a socket saver with the 6F8G's / adapter. 
Even using 6SN7 / 1578 I also use socket savers or I'm pulling the tubes out with mostly glass and very little base.


----------



## Somatic

1Audiophool said:


> FYI-Just got my Woo 6f8g adapters today… they fit too deeply/tightly into the Envy. Damaged the wire that goes to the top of the tube. Will need to get socket savers to lift the adapter up. It’s a bummer, the Woo adapters are really nicely built…can’t believe a messed it up before I even got to try it🥹


Damn. Anyone using these adapters without problems? @nwavesailor


----------



## nwavesailor

You will need socket savers with the 6F8G in the Envy.


----------



## zen87192

Any recommendations on Socket Savers?


----------



## Somatic

nwavesailor said:


> I have adapters from 'Glenn' of amp building fame and still need socket savers with the 6F8G's


Hmmm. I see which socket savers are the best. I got to order some. Any socket savers for the power tube side as well? Thanks.


----------



## JTbbb

nwavesailor said:


> Yeah, the Envy sockets are deep and do require a socket saver with the 6F8G's / adapter.
> Even using 6SN7 / 1578 I also use socket savers or I'm pulling the tubes out with mostly glass and very little base.


I would really like to know the engineering principles behind having recessed sockets, just makes things awkward. And we want to see the graphics on the bases.


----------



## nwavesailor

I have some from Tube Monger as well as xulingmrs on E-Bay. The TM are better made.


----------



## JTbbb

I got mine from Deyan on this forum.


----------



## nwavesailor (Nov 5, 2022)

pulsetubestore.com is where you can get the TM socket savers. I'm sure Deyan's version is top notch as well.


----------



## ThanatosVI

JTbbb said:


> I would really like to know the engineering principles behind having recessed sockets, just makes things awkward. And we want to see the graphics on the bases.


It certainly looks better to me with recessed sockets


----------



## JTbbb

ThanatosVI said:


> It certainly looks better to me with recessed sockets


Haha, yes we all have our preferences. Here’s my other tube amp, so easy to remove/install, and looks great!


----------



## OctavianH

ThanatosVI said:


> It certainly looks better to me with recessed sockets


In terms of heat dissipation is not helping and without socket savers you have to pull out the tube by grabbing from the glass not base.


----------



## ThanatosVI

OctavianH said:


> In terms of heat dissipation is not helping and without socket savers you have to pull out the tube by grabbing from the glass not base.


Well going by the pictures the tubes aren't so recessed that you can't pull at the base anymore. Obviously not as easy as when they are not recessed at all.

The good thing is, if it is recessed and someone doesn't like it, he can use socket savers to fix it.

If they aren't recessed and someone prefers them recessed,  there's nothing he can do.

Anyways,  I agree that having them not recessed has more practical purpose.
Maybe it's easier to manufacture that way, with having the wood they way it is.


----------



## OctavianH

Yep. I agree with you. With the remark that purists avoid unnecessary connections like socket savers which might be additional point of failure/hum/sound degradation based on the quality of the saver. In my case I would always prefer to have top mounted sockets but I also exchange tubes often which might not be the case of Envy.


----------



## JTbbb

Socket savers can throw up some inexplicable problems though. I’ve had it myself where a tube in a socket saver is noisy, but quiet when not. And other tubes in the same socket saver are quiet too.


----------



## Newsee

ThanatosVI said:


> Due to these new developments I adjusted my plans. Instead of saving up for the Bog Oak Version (+3k, so ~10k total) I decided to go with a regular Walnut Version.
> 
> I pulled the trigger just now, so the amp should be with me by end if dezember or early january.
> 
> ...


Congratulation for the decision. Heavy one.
The year is perhaps because you are disciplined (mostly 😉). 
Availability is anyway less than half a year.


----------



## incredulousity

nwavesailor said:


> You will need socket savers with the 6F8G in the Envy.


Thanks for the heads up. I have the same adapters. Fortunately, I also have 6SN7 socket savers.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

I feel like between @paradoxper and myself, we're single-handedly trying to keep the global economy going by stimulating spending on tubes from around the world...


----------



## Somatic

ColSaulTigh said:


> I feel like between @paradoxper and myself, we're single-handedly trying to keep the global economy going by stimulating spending on tubes from around the world...


You both are “bad” influences


----------



## Somatic

nwavesailor said:


> I found no wiggle room for pricing in the US. I asked fully expecting at least a modest 10% off retail.


I was able to get this.


----------



## Somatic

dadracer2 said:


> There is a comparison between the Envy and a couple of other amps including the Oor here https://headfonics.com/feliks-audio-envy-review/3/


Thanks. Hoping for a big step up from the Oor. From the review they seem comparable?


----------



## nwavesailor

Somatic said:


> I was able to get this.


Good for you! I preordered in March and frankly was stunned that I got nothing off full retail even asking several times.


----------



## Somatic

nwavesailor said:


> Good for you! I preordered in March and frankly was stunned that I got nothing off full retail even asking several times.


I can imagine it being hard at that time. I weaseled my way to a decent deal. Helped pay for the Elrog. 

Got to call my Dealer on Monday. This waiting is taking for ever. Hahahaha


----------



## incredulousity

These arrived


----------



## nwavesailor

NICE
TS Round (oval) Plate or ladder plate?
The stamps are pretty cool!


----------



## incredulousity

Oval


----------



## nwavesailor (Nov 5, 2022)

SWEET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm pretty fortunate to have snagged 3 or 4 pairs of the TSRP 6F8G when they were the low cost alternative to the 6SN7 TSRP.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

incredulousity said:


> These arrived


The Boys from Brazil!


----------



## incredulousity

SR purple fuses sound fantastic in Envy (and also in GS-X Mk2). A worthy upgrade. Opened up in less than 24 hours. I expect some further improvement.


----------



## turbofeet

incredulousity said:


> SR purple fuses sound fantastic in Envy (and also in GS-X Mk2). A worthy upgrade. Opened up in less than 24 hours. I expect some further improvement.


I found the purple fuse increased the clarity in my Bartok but I decided to remove it as it made it a little bright to my ears. Then again it's meant to need 300hrs burn in and so maybe I needed to give it longer to evolve. I still have it so might put it back. The brightness started after about 80hrs; it sounded pretty smooth initially. 

I'm not sure I'll put the fuse in the Envy for this reason, I think I'll let the Elrogs do their thing.


----------



## incredulousity

turbofeet said:


> I found the purple fuse increased the clarity in my Bartok but I decided to remove it as it made it a little bright to my ears. Then again it's meant to need 300hrs burn in and so maybe I needed to give it longer to evolve. I still have it so might put it back. The brightness started after about 80hrs; it sounded pretty smooth initially.
> 
> I'm not sure I'll put the fuse in the Envy for this reason, I think I'll let the Elrogs do their thing.


OTOH, I will put it in May, Spring, and Mini.


----------



## turbofeet

incredulousity said:


> OTOH, I will put it in May, Spring, and Mini.


YMMV of course


----------



## Newsee

JTbbb said:


> I would really like to know the engineering principles behind having recessed sockets, just makes things awkward. And we want to see the graphics on the bases.


Apart of any technical reason, it is much nicer recessed, IMO. Some graphics, especially in red, are more disturbing than improving the aesthetic. 

In the end I managed to remove the tubes without touching the glas part, but I can see your point.


----------



## incredulousity

It would be nicer if the Woo adapters had the wire exit a cm higher.


----------



## 1Audiophool

The last one is the adapter I tore the insulation on 🥹
Just waiting on the Elrogs and socket savers. Then it’s time to save for a Dac….if I can control my tube gathering!!!😬


----------



## incredulousity

Cough-May KTE-cough

Envy likes it.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

1Audiophool said:


> The last one is the adapter I tore the insulation on 🥹
> Just waiting on the Elrogs and socket savers. Then it’s time to save for a Dac….if I can control my tube gathering!!!😬


Mighty fine tube collection there!  Sucks about the adapter not fitting properly - had no idea the Envy had such tight tolerances...


----------



## 1Audiophool

incredulousity said:


> Cough-May KTE-cough
> 
> Envy likes it.


That is the plan. Would really like to hear a Wavedream/light to compare but that’s unlikely. I’d want a balanced Wavedream anyway and that’s above my budget. Plus I probably want a Bliss now too lol…does it ever end (rhetorical…I know the answer unfortunately)😆


----------



## incredulousity (Nov 6, 2022)

1Audiophool said:


> That is the plan. Would really like to hear a Wavedream/light to compare but that’s unlikely. I’d want a balanced Wavedream anyway and that’s above my budget. Plus I probably want a Bliss now too lol…does it ever end (rhetorical…I know the answer unfortunately)😆


I ordered Bliss

Where in Oregon are you?


----------



## jonathan c

ColSaulTigh said:


> Mighty fine tube collection there!  Sucks about the adapter not fitting properly - had no idea the Envy had such tight tolerances...


NV = no variance ? 🤔😲….🤷🏻‍♂️


----------



## Arcamera

That's some pretty cool art/mat you have under the tubes, 1Audiophool.


----------



## 1Audiophool

incredulousity said:


> I ordered Bliss
> 
> Where in Oregon are you?


Medford


----------



## 1Audiophool

Arcamera said:


> That's some pretty cool art/mat you have under the tubes, 1Audiophool.


Thanks, got it from Drop


----------



## incredulousity

1Audiophool said:


> Medford


Cool. I’m in Coos Bay.


----------



## nwavesailor

1Audiophool said:


> The last one is the adapter I tore the insulation on 🥹
> Just waiting on the Elrogs and socket savers. Then it’s time to save for a Dac….if I can control my tube gathering!!!😬


How are you for soldering? It may not be necessary but if you remove the top anode cap and slide a short section of black heat shrink tubing down the wire, it would cover the wire abrasion and blend in nicely. 

I did that with my adapters a few years ago when I noticed the wire getting mashed in a socket of another amp.


----------



## 1Audiophool

incredulousity said:


> Cool. I’m in Coos Bay.


Nice, we’re practically neighbors!


----------



## 1Audiophool

nwavesailor said:


> How are you for soldering? It may not be necessary but if you remove the top anode cap and slide a short section of black heat shrink tubing down the wire, it would cover the wire abrasion and blend in nicely.
> 
> I did that with my adapters a few years ago when I noticed the wire getting mashed in a socket of another amp.


That’s a good idea 👍


----------



## 1Audiophool

ColSaulTigh said:


> Mighty fine tube collection there!  Sucks about the adapter not fitting properly - had no idea the Envy had such tight tolerances...


Well, I have you to thank for suggestions and hooking me up with the Tung-sol. You and @paradoxper have been super helpful. I appreciate it!
Still keeping my eye out for those 1578’s 😉


----------



## iFi audio

incredulousity said:


> I also like the iFi Nova cable as a passive cord. The SupaNova active cords should not be used after power conditioners or regenerators.



Thanks! As for SupaNova, you're right, but it all depends on how clean an output of a conditioner/distributor is. If it's still noisy (which happens), then SupaNova might still make a noticeable difference. Thanks!


----------



## moosemp

Does anybody have experience with Sophia Electric 6sn7?


----------



## iFi audio

moosemp said:


> Does anybody have experience with Sophia Electric 6sn7?



I haven't tried these, but there's a lot of feedback on these at SE's site: 

https://sophiaelectric.com/pages/reviews-review-6sn7

...and on AG:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/sophia-electric-blue-glass

From what I gather, it's a nice tube for the price.


----------



## moosemp

Thanks, I am curious how it competes with previously mentioned tubes in this thread, regardless of price


----------



## ThanatosVI

moosemp said:


> Does anybody have experience with Sophia Electric 6sn7?


If it shares traits with other Sophia Electric tubes I expect it to have a very spacious and detailed sound with just a hint of warmth.

(I'm using Sophia Electric 12au7 and KT88)


----------



## ColSaulTigh

moosemp said:


> Does anybody have experience with Sophia Electric 6sn7?


I have a pair of Sophia Electric 6SN7 Aquas - they're ok, nothing special.  I have others that outperform them.


----------



## turbofeet

turbofeet said:


> YMMV of course


I swapped the fuse direction and now it is smoother again like when I first put it in. Who knew! It defies belief. 

FYI from the Synergistic Research Website:

"Note:  If you are switching from an Orange fuse to a Purple fuse, start by inserting the Purple fuse in the same direction as the Orange fuse being replaced.  If the Purple fuse is not an immediate improvement, flip the Purple fuse in the alternate direction."

So, they can be used in any direction.


----------



## incredulousity (Nov 7, 2022)

True, but they also say there is an intended direction for the fuse. I am happy with my measured proper position, and it is annoying enough to exchange fuses that I won't bother to further experiment. 

Also, I've found online that Holo Audio Spring fuse power goes from down to up, but I will verify this when I change my fuses when Bliss arrives.


----------



## turbofeet

incredulousity said:


> True, but they also say there is an intended direction for the fuse. I am happy with my measured proper position, and it is annoying enough to exchange fuses that I won't bother to further experiment.
> 
> Also, I've found online that Holo Audio Spring fuse power goes from down to up, but I will verify this when I change my fuses when Bliss arrives.


I wonder if I had it the wrong way around initially. Could well be.


----------



## incredulousity

I really, really hate the fact that power is important, possibly most important, and that power tweaks work so well for me. 
/end rant


----------



## Somatic

turbofeet said:


> I wonder if I had it the wrong way around initially. Could well be.


Which way do you have it now? Is it the same direction that @incredulousity described?


----------



## Somatic

incredulousity said:


> SR purple fuses sound fantastic in Envy (and also in GS-X Mk2). A worthy upgrade. Opened up in less than 24 hours. I expect some further improvement.


What upgrades did you find by using this fuse? I have them on all my farad3 and before with my Hypsos as well.


----------



## turbofeet

Somatic said:


> Which way do you have it now? Is it the same direction that @incredulousity described?


I'm not sure how it looks in the Envy but this is the fuse in the Bartok. I had it so the "SR" writing on the fuse was going in an outward direction from left to right out of the back of the DAC. I have now reversed this.


----------



## Somatic

turbofeet said:


> I'm not sure how it looks in the Envy but this is the fuse in the Bartok. I had it so the "SR" writing on the fuse was going in an outward direction from left to right out of the back of the DAC. I have now reversed this.


Oh I see. My mistake. Yes, I noticed a real difference between both orientations when testing on the Hypsos. One way sounded unnatural, just didn't sound good. The other way was smooth and sounded dynamic.


----------



## turbofeet

Somatic said:


> Oh I see. My mistake. Yes, I noticed a real difference between both orientations when testing on the Hypsos. One way sounded unnatural, just didn't sound good. The other way was smooth and sounded dynamic.


Yes I was surprised to say the least!


----------



## Somatic

1Audiophool said:


> The last one is the adapter I tore the insulation on 🥹
> Just waiting on the Elrogs and socket savers. Then it’s time to save for a Dac….if I can control my tube gathering!!!😬


Damn I bought those woo adapters as well. Guess I got to get some socket savers. Which one did you go with? Woo Audio has them but its pretty expensive ... Hmmmm ...


----------



## 1Audiophool

Somatic said:


> Damn I bought those woo adapters as well. Guess I got to get some socket savers. Which one did you go with? Woo Audio has them but its pretty expensive ... Hmmmm ...


I ordered two different pairs. Really inexpensive ones from PCX…shipping cost almost as much as the socket savers.($11 for the both SS’s + $9 for shipping)

Then some from Pulse. $38 each

Don’t have either of them yet but will let you know what I think when they come. Not expecting much from the $5.56 one but you never know 🤷


----------



## nwavesailor

The Pulse SS are good and didn’t take long to arrive from (I think?) India to the PNW.


----------



## Somatic

Anyone mess with these?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2949714098...M3WbkfSSp6&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY


----------



## UntilThen

nwavesailor said:


> The Pulse SS are good and didn’t take long to arrive from (I think?) India to the PNW.



I've got a pair of ss from them too. It's good quality.


----------



## nwavesailor (Nov 8, 2022)

Somatic said:


> Anyone mess with these?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2949714098...M3WbkfSSp6&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY


With E-Bay feedback of only 28, don't think this would be where I'd buy.
They could be great but we are talking about using these in a $8K amp with tubes north of $500 pair. I think Pulse (Tube Monger) and Deyen are known makers and they would be wired correctly.


----------



## iFi audio

ColSaulTigh said:


> I have others that outperform them.



If I may ask, what's your favorite then  ?


----------



## Somatic

nwavesailor said:


> With E-Bay feedback of only 28, don't think this would be where I'd buy.
> They could be great but we are talking about using these in a $8K amp with tubes north of $500 pair. I think Pulse (Tube Monger) and Deyen are known makers and they would be wired correctly.


This is what I got from Pulse Engineering. 

“I have bought them in bulk at a surplus Military auction several years ago.

I do not know where they were made – likely, USA or UK.

I think the pins are probably nickel, but I cannot confirm, just my guess.”


----------



## Somatic

I’m checking with Woo Audio on what their pins are made of. He says they are made in house. So we shall see. I was initially afraid it was rebranded Chinese stock but probably not as people would have complained about QC issues by now.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

iFi audio said:


> If I may ask, what's your favorite then  ?


In the 6SN7 line, I like RCA Grey Glass (CRC JAN 1942) for some warmth and richness.  Melz 1578 for brightness and clarity and a wide-open soundstage.  Switch to Tung Sol 6F8G (with adapters, caution - you will also need a socket saver or have a custom built one due to depth issues on the Envy) for a slick, wet sound that brings everything to life.

The Sophia's are just very average in a world of better-than-average tubes.  They're not bad, but they don't bring anything to the table I can't get elsewhere in a better performing tube.  YMMV.


----------



## iFi audio

ColSaulTigh said:


> In the 6SN7 line, I like RCA Grey Glass (CRC JAN 1942) for some warmth and richness.  Melz 1578 for brightness and clarity and a wide-open soundstage.  Switch to Tung Sol 6F8G (with adapters, caution - you will also need a socket saver or have a custom built one due to depth issues on the Envy) for a slick, wet sound that brings everything to life.
> 
> The Sophia's are just very average in a world of better-than-average tubes.  They're not bad, but they don't bring anything to the table I can't get elsewhere in a better performing tube.  YMMV.



Thanks a lot for this insight, it's very helpful and it's also interesting that you've mentioned 1578 types from the Melz factory. I had my eye on these (a good 9.2/9.6mA pair for $200 or so) just yesterday and almost pulled the trigger


----------



## ThanatosVI

iFi audio said:


> Thanks a lot for this insight, it's very helpful and it's also interesting that you've mentioned 1578 types from the Melz factory. I had my eye on these (a good 9.2/9.6mA pair for $200 or so) just yesterday and almost pulled the trigger


200$ for the pair is an amazing price nowadays.
If your source is trustworthy, go for it


----------



## iFi audio

ThanatosVI said:


> 200$ for the pair is an amazing price nowadays.
> If your source is trustworthy, go for it



It's a private seller on a local auction, but seems legit and the way how these tubes were described indicates that he knows what he's got. Real photos make this listing even sweeter. Thanks!


----------



## Somatic

iFi audio said:


> Thanks a lot for this insight, it's very helpful and it's also interesting that you've mentioned 1578 types from the Melz factory. I had my eye on these (a good 9.2/9.6mA pair for $200 or so) just yesterday and almost pulled the trigger


Did you end up getting the Envy?


----------



## JTbbb

iFi audio said:


> It's a private seller on a local auction, but seems legit and the way how these tubes were described indicates that he knows what he's got. Real photos make this listing even sweeter. Thanks!


Just make sure these 1578’s match up to the pics of the genuine article in the 6sn7 threads. If they do they are a good deal.


----------



## paradoxper

ColSaulTigh said:


> I have a pair of Sophia Electric 6SN7 Aquas - they're ok, nothing special.  I have others that outperform them.


Very harsh. Nods. It's the lifeless dimension that makes current production tubes difficult to enjoy.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

paradoxper said:


> Very harsh. Nods. It's the lifeless dimension that makes current production tubes difficult to enjoy.


Right.  The correct answer is always "NOS" or "Melz".  6F8G with adapters is also acceptable.


----------



## 1Audiophool

JTbbb said:


> Just make sure these 1578’s match up to the pics of the genuine article in the 6sn7 threads. If they do they are a good deal.


I wasn’t aware of that thread or picture… it makes it very clear. So I got mine out to check and just as I suspected….





SN8S… Oh, well.

Pulled out my next pair and….




😲 !!!! 
Did not expect that! I need to look back at where I got it and see if there’s more😆


----------



## Somatic

JTbbb said:


> I have never heard my Sennhieser HD800S sound so good! This with Elrog 300B, Mullard ecc32’s, in Envy , impedance mid.


So Mullard ECC32 can be used for driver tubes on the Envy with no issues? Which year is considered the best? Thanks.


----------



## incredulousity (Nov 8, 2022)

I'm blown away by how great my HD800S sounds on Envy/ER600B/PSVane. I'm sure it will be better with Melz 1578 when they return. This ancient headphone is still a flagship.

Also, I have no regrets at all selling Euforia AE for Envy with my dynamics, even though it is not an OTL amp.


----------



## iFi audio

Somatic said:


> Did you end up getting the Envy?



Sadly I wasn't able to justify its purchase to my boss 



JTbbb said:


> Just make sure these 1578’s match up to the pics of the genuine article in the 6sn7 threads. If they do they are a good deal.



Will do, thanks. Our R&D knows their onions so I'd ask them prior to spending any money anyway


----------



## JTbbb

Somatic said:


> So Mullard ECC32 can be used for driver tubes on the Envy with no issues? Which year is considered the best? Thanks.


This is my personal opinion. I only purchase the brown base with, for want of better description, the crinkley top mica. These I believe are ’50s production. The use of these non 6sn7’s has been endorsed by Feliks Audio.


----------



## incredulousity

Question: Since it seems that Envy uses one triode per 6SN7 per channel, has anyone tried different 6SN7 tubes together yet?


----------



## nwavesailor (Nov 8, 2022)

incredulousity said:


> Question: Since it seems that Envy uses one triode per 6SN7 per channel, has anyone tried different 6SN7 tubes together yet?


Wow, that never occurred to me!

I will be trying dual GEC 6J5 / L63 with adapters soon.


----------



## Somatic

ThanatosVI said:


> I like NRG Custom Cables from Canada.
> Certainly among the more affordable offerings.
> 
> However I can't really give comparisons to other after market cables.
> They are certainly better than stock but I don't know how they compete against the expensive stuff


I like them too. But I also do not know if they are the best. I have the non TOTL version. I think its called .1 or something. They are still massive LOL


----------



## ThanatosVI

Somatic said:


> I like them too. But I also do not know if they are the best. I have the non TOTL version. I think its called .1 or something. They are still massive LOL


I actually have my full Setup of 5 and .1
Each device even the Mjölnir SRD-7 has one of them.
When the Envy arrives it will get the 5 from the DAC and the DAC will receive my leftover .1


----------



## LoryWiv

JTbbb said:


> This is my personal opinion. I only purchase the brown base with, for want of better description, the crinkley top mica. These I believe are ’50s production. The *use of these non 6sn7’s has been endorsed by Feliks Audio*.


Good to know! Is that by personal communication you had? I had heard in the Euforia threads that FA was not enthused about use of non-standard tubes with adapters in their products, even though with Euforia that versatility is amongst the strongest attributes that attracted me to it.

Perhaps they are loosening up on this given how prevalent tube rolling is.


----------



## Somatic

ThanatosVI said:


> I actually have my full Setup of 5 and .1
> Each device even the Mjölnir SRD-7 has one of them.
> When the Envy arrives it will get the 5 from the DAC and the DAC will receive my leftover .1


Ok I have three .1 for each of the Farad3 power supplies for the Dave. Seems excessive, lol ...

Maybe I will get a 5 for the Envy as well. Have you noticed any differences between the 5 and .1 at all?


----------



## ThanatosVI

Somatic said:


> Ok I have three .1 for each of the Farad3 power supplies for the Dave. Seems excessive, lol ...
> 
> Maybe I will get a 5 for the Envy as well. Have you noticed any differences between the 5 and .1 at all?


I never compared them directly on the same gear. They are quite massive so After they were Setup I was happy that everything is well laid out behind the sideboard and didn't touch them anymore


----------



## paradoxper

ColSaulTigh said:


> Right.  The correct answer is always "NOS" or "Melz".  6F8G with adapters is also acceptable.


Coupled because of the Wathen Cryo, it's MELZ or bust. Every current production 6SN7 is so poor.


----------



## Somatic

paradoxper said:


> Coupled because of the Wathen Cryo, it's MELZ or bust. Every current production 6SN7 is so poor.


So what makes the new WE 6SN7s so special? They will use an old schematic? Why can't other new production hold a candle to NOS?


----------



## paradoxper

Somatic said:


> So what makes the new WE 6SN7s so special? They will use an old schematic? Why can't other new production hold a candle to NOS?


WE acquired Philips tooling to give insight to their roadmap.

We don't know if the WE 6SN7 is decent. 

Many NOS tubes were for militarized application and that's no longer the driving force behind engineering along with the limited tooling and techniques.


----------



## JTbbb

LoryWiv said:


> Good to know! Is that by personal communication you had? I had heard in the Euforia threads that FA was not enthused about use of non-standard tubes with adapters in their products, even though with Euforia that versatility is amongst the strongest attributes that attracted me to it.
> 
> Perhaps they are loosening up on this given how prevalent tube rolling is.


Yes, I communicated with Lukasz directly and asked the question. Also, in the Euforia AE manual, Mullard ecc32’s are listed as suitable, and they don’t need adapters.


----------



## incredulousity

paradoxper said:


> Every current production 6SN7 is so poor.


Sadder and truer words have rarely been spoken.


----------



## moosemp

Mullard ecc32 now on ebay for 2850$ a pair.  This must be fantastic deal 🤯 I do not know?


----------



## incredulousity

I saw that one too 😂


----------



## moosemp

For that money one can get excellent power cord ( if still does not have it)😎


----------



## moosemp (Nov 8, 2022)

Nevertheless I would not spend so much without long listening in my system.
Especially in so subjective matters of musical taste, completely different systems etc.


----------



## incredulousity (Nov 9, 2022)

Uh oh.

One of my ER300B tubes is dark and not working. Cooling the amp to swap positions, but I think it may need to be exchanged for a new one. Less than 100 hours on it.

Later…

Swapped tube sets, same thing. Reversed tubes. Same thing. Right channel no sound and right 300B does not light up. It’s not the tubes. It’s the amp. I guess we get to learn about Upscale Audio repair turnaround now!


----------



## nwavesailor

incredulousity said:


> Uh oh.
> 
> One of my ER300B tubes is dark and not working. Cooling the amp to swap positions, but I think it may need to be exchanged for a new one. Less than 100 hours on it.
> 
> ...


Oh geez............I did ask Upscale about domestic repair of the Envy should it ever have a problem. Let's hope it's something simple and a quick turnaround. You have already done the Envy reboxing / shipping thing a time or 2. Its easy to sell things but the value of a dealer is in how you are taken care of when there is a problem.

Good thing you have the Bliss arriving soon!


----------



## incredulousity

Well, Bliss will arrive quickly after it ships, as I live in the PNW, but hopefully some units are completed and ready to ship soon after release. 

I’m not exactly dying with the excellent GS-X Mk2, but will miss Envy, and Bliss might make the wait more pleasant.


----------



## nwavesailor

Yeah, now that you have heard the Envy / Elrog it's hard to get too excited about very good SS.........and I'm sure the Holo Audio Bliss will be a good one!


----------



## paradoxper

incredulousity said:


> Uh oh.
> 
> One of my ER300B tubes is dark and not working. Cooling the amp to swap positions, but I think it may need to be exchanged for a new one. Less than 100 hours on it.
> 
> ...


That is a frustrating failure. Good luck!


----------



## iFi audio

ColSaulTigh said:


> The correct answer is always "NOS"



Yup, there's something there and we've been using GE JAN 5670 in our tube products too


----------



## JTbbb

incredulousity said:


> Uh oh.
> 
> One of my ER300B tubes is dark and not working. Cooling the amp to swap positions, but I think it may need to be exchanged for a new one. Less than 100 hours on it.
> 
> ...


If you haven’t packaged everything up yet, just try this. The side where the tube doesn’t “light up” when installed and powered up, just give the tube a gentle wiggle around from the top, see if at a certain position it makes a contact and lights up.


----------



## incredulousity

JTbbb said:


> If you haven’t packaged everything up yet, just try this. The side where the tube doesn’t “light up” when installed and powered up, just give the tube a gentle wiggle around from the top, see if at a certain position it makes a contact and lights up.


Tried that. It didn’t work. And with several tubes.


----------



## JTbbb

incredulousity said:


> Tried that. It didn’t work. And with several tubes.


Ah, I am sorry to hear that. I had similar issues with my pair of new Takatsuki’s which both had troubles you describe, but gentle wiggles brought them to life. Bizarrely though, with a pair of Deyan socket savers on the Takatsuki’s, I have no issues whatsoever. The Elrog’s connect perfectly without the socket savers, and the new WE300’s I have yet to try.


----------



## moosemp

We300b fits perfectly tightly.


----------



## Somatic

@incredulousity that sucks, let us know how the repair process is like. My guess it will take awhile. Hoping that's not the case though.


----------



## Arcamera

incredulousity said:


> I’m not exactly dying with the excellent GS-X Mk2, but will miss Envy,


Sorry to hear about the amp situation. On a comparison note, can you describe the sound difference between the GS-X and the Envy? Thanks.


----------



## ThanatosVI (Nov 9, 2022)

incredulousity said:


> Question: Since it seems that Envy uses one triode per 6SN7 per channel, has anyone tried different 6SN7 tubes together yet?


Does that mean one does not need to have matched pair 6SN7 tubes?


----------



## incredulousity

Update: They already sent the RMA shipping label. Great service so far from Upscale!


ThanatosVI said:


> Does that mean one does not need to have matched pair 6SN7 tubes?


That is also what I am implying, though the two triodes within a single tube should then be well matched.


----------



## Somatic

incredulousity said:


> Update: They already sent the RMA shipping label. Great service so far from Upscale!
> 
> That is also what I am implying, though the two triodes within a single tube should then be well matched.


Hmmm, I bought from Headphones.com. Wondering how they would differ?

So over at Upscale, will they send you a replacement when they have in stock? Or sending the unit overseas to get fixed? Wondering what the logistics are for repair ...


----------



## incredulousity (Nov 9, 2022)

Don't know yet. But I would not expect them to have one in stock.

Headphones.com has been fantastic in my experience, but have not done an amp repair with them.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

incredulousity said:


> Uh oh.
> 
> One of my ER300B tubes is dark and not working. Cooling the amp to swap positions, but I think it may need to be exchanged for a new one. Less than 100 hours on it.
> 
> ...


Man, you're having the worst luck....


----------



## incredulousity (Nov 9, 2022)

ColSaulTigh said:


> Man, you're having the worst luck....


Evidently I must make more sacrifice to the Elrog gods, whom I have clearly inadvertently displeased.


----------



## JTbbb

ThanatosVI said:


> Does that mean one does not need to have matched pair 6SN7 tubes?





incredulousity said:


> Update: They already sent the RMA shipping label. Great service so far from Upscale!
> 
> That is also what I am implying, though the two triodes within a single tube should then be well matched


Although not 6sn7’s this explanation of “tube goodness” from a professional tube amp builder/repairer, plus tube testers, makes interesting reading non the less. It puts into perspective that for the most part we do not put these tubes to the rigours the military applications did. This explanation was for TS5998/WE421A type tubes. I enclose a pic of one of my tubes that sounds no different from a NOS example. So absolute matching is not that critical.






The PC/TC figures are pretty much a standard that people use to buy / sell valves to give an idea of their ‘goodness’, but in reality the 421A / 5998s are very high power triodes used mainly in Military applications back in the day, so to be honest for the purposes of matching the valves for your preamp, the PC score is really irrelevant, whether a valve can drive 90mA or 40mA is of no consequence when it is in circuit driving 5/6mA, they will pretty much all work until they become noisy or completely exhausted. A more useful parameter to match against is the TC (transconductance, loosely described as the gain of the valve), so use that as a basis for matching, but again don’t worry unduly, because I think you would be hard pushed to hear the difference between a valve with a TC of 9 or 14, but always good practice to get as close as possible. The main criteria with your amp I would suggest is how noisy they are, as that directly affects the listening experience, old valves can become noisy and microphonic, as you know.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

incredulousity said:


> Evidently I must make more sacrifice to the Elrog gods, whom I have clearly inadvertently displeased.


Actually, it's the Woo Gods who are displeased.


----------



## incredulousity (Nov 9, 2022)

ColSaulTigh said:


> Actually, it's the Woo Gods who are displeased.


or the Cayin ones.

of course, if I bought the Cayin one, I would then have to buy the Elrog rectifiers as well, so the Cayin and Elrog gods are probably in cahoots.

The woo gods show their displeasure by making the adapter power cords too low for the Envy sockets.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

incredulousity said:


> or the Cayin ones.
> 
> of course, if I bought the Cayin one, I would then have to buy the Elrog rectifiers as well, so the Cayin and Elrog gods are probably in cahoots.
> 
> The woo gods show their displeasure by making the adapter power cords too low for the Envy sockets.


Ooh no, the Woo Gods also demand a sacrifice for Elrog Rectifiers.  Two of them.

I appease my Gods as to not incur their wrath...


----------



## incredulousity

ColSaulTigh said:


> Ooh no, the Woo Gods also demand a sacrifice for Elrog Rectifiers.  Two of them.
> 
> I appease my Gods as to not incur their wrath...


This is not good. I have angered all the gods.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

incredulousity said:


> This is not good. I have angered all the gods.


----------



## Somatic

https://headfonics.com/feliks-audio-envy-review/3/

Every time I read this part it makes it seem that the Ferrum stack is just as good. 

I’m hoping for a bigger performance delta. This could be due to the reviewer using the Performance tubes?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Somatic said:


> https://headfonics.com/feliks-audio-envy-review/3/
> 
> Every time I read this part it makes it seem that the Ferrum stack is just as good.
> 
> I’m hoping for a bigger performance delta. This could be due to the reviewer using the Performance tubes?


Elrogs will fix most of those issues...


----------



## incredulousity

Somatic said:


> https://headfonics.com/feliks-audio-envy-review/3/
> 
> Every time I read this part it makes it seem that the Ferrum stack is just as good.
> 
> I’m hoping for a bigger performance delta. This could be due to the reviewer using the Performance tubes?


I don’t see at all how you can read that and draw that conclusion. He finds them to be different amps, and points out the differences as well as similarities. That said, Either Elrog type, or AN4300E will satisfy any possible desire for improvement in technicalities. And better still with some choice 6SN7 variants.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

incredulousity said:


> I don’t see at all how you can read that and draw that conclusion. He finds them to be different amps, and points out the differences as well as similarities. That said, Either Elrog type, or AN4300E will satisfy any possible desire for improvement in technicalities. And better still with some choice 6SN7 variants.


This assumes, of course, your Envy actually works for more than a week at a time...


----------



## incredulousity

ColSaulTigh said:


> This assumes, of course, your Envy actually works for more than a week at a time...


Touché


----------



## ColSaulTigh

incredulousity said:


> Touché


----------



## paradoxper

incredulousity said:


> Evidently I must make more sacrifice to the Elrog gods, whom I have clearly inadvertently displeased.


Quadrogology is penance.


----------



## incredulousity

True. But I’m very happy with my DAC.


----------



## paradoxper

incredulousity said:


> True. But I’m very happy with my DAC.


Pardon your rationality.


----------



## incredulousity

Envy has been picked up by FedEx, and they will get it Monday. Thoughts and prayers to Elrog gods.


----------



## nwavesailor

Best of luck! It will be interesting to see what failed and how soon it can be fixed.


----------



## incredulousity

No drama, smell, or noise. I bet a wire shook loose somewhere.


----------



## nwavesailor

Yup, likely something small with a drama free loss of a channel.


----------



## turbofeet

I suppose even though they package it up well it still has to get all the way from Poland to the US. Who knows how much it is thrown about on the journey. 

Must be something easy to repair. Fingers crossed for you.


----------



## turbofeet

I have noticed that my left channel is making a very slight crackling noise - a bit like a very light wind. Right channel is still dead quiet.

I can hear this even on low gain and with volume all the way down. 

Can't hear it when music is playing but is this a sign of a bad tube, a tube that needs reseating or an issue with the amp itself?

A little concerning of course.

I will let it cool down and swap the Tubes around shortly.


----------



## Toonartist

I had an EL34 tube that was making a faint whistle crackle but would only start when it had warmed up and was only audible in-between tracks. Swapping the tubes around resulted in the sound swapping sides so confirming it was the tube. So once your system has cooled down, you should easily be able to tell. It sounds like that's what it is but fingers crossed anyway!


----------



## turbofeet

Toonartist said:


> I had an EL34 tube that was making a faint whistle crackle but would only start when it had warmed up and was only audible in-between tracks. Swapping the tubes around resulted in the sound swapping sides so confirming it was the tube. So once your system has cooled down, you should easily be able to tell. It sounds like that's what it is but fingers crossed anyway!


Thanks.

Swapped the Full Music tubes around, no change.

Swapped the PS Vanes over and both channels are dead silent again.

Must have been a seating issue.


----------



## Toonartist

Reassuring… you can get back to enjoying the music now 👍🏻


----------



## nwavesailor (Nov 14, 2022)

These are French Visseaux 6J5 and my initial impression is they _may_ be as good or better than the TSRP 6SN7, TSRP 6F8G / VT-99 and perhaps the 1578.
These are stunning tubes that do everything right.

 I have GEC L63 and TS 6J5 VT-94A to try.


----------



## JTbbb

nwavesailor said:


> These are French Visseaux 6J5 and my initial impression is they _may_ be as good or better than the TSRP 6SN7, TSRP 6F8G / VT-99 and perhaps the 1578.
> These are stunning tubes that do everything right.
> 
> I have GEC L63 and TS 6J5 VT-93A to try.


Just had, an admittedly quick scoot around the tinternet, and the costs for four tubes and adapters, takes you into the realms of the tubes they compare with. They do look great though, and the more experimentation the better!


----------



## ColSaulTigh

nwavesailor said:


> These are French Visseaux 6J5 and my initial impression is they _may_ be as good or better than the TSRP 6SN7, TSRP 6F8G / VT-99 and perhaps the 1578.
> These are stunning tubes that do everything right.
> 
> I have GEC L63 and TS 6J5 VT-93A to try.


Who's adapters are those?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

If anyone is thinking about picking up a pair of Takatsuki 300B and does not fear angering the Elrog Gods...

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/takatsuki-ta-300b-matched-pair.36202/


----------



## incredulousity

nwavesailor said:


> These are French Visseaux 6J5 and my initial impression is they _may_ be as good or better than the TSRP 6SN7, TSRP 6F8G / VT-99 and perhaps the 1578.
> These are stunning tubes that do everything right.
> 
> I have GEC L63 and TS 6J5 VT-93A to try.


No fair… you did it first, whilst my Envy is in the shop!


----------



## incredulousity

ColSaulTigh said:


> If anyone is thinking about picking up a pair of Takatsuki 300B and does not fear angering the Elrog Gods...
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/takatsuki-ta-300b-matched-pair.36202/


I will anger the Elrog gods only with the eventual purchase of blue glow, just because blue glow!


----------



## ThanatosVI

incredulousity said:


> I will anger the Elrog gods only with the eventual purchase of blue glow, just because blue glow!


Blue go is a must!


----------



## nwavesailor

ColSaulTigh said:


> Who's adapters are those?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

nwavesailor said:


>


Is the key rotatable?


----------



## nwavesailor

It can be rotated but not 360 degrees. If you rotate it too far (I believe more than 90 degrees) you can break a wire. 
I've had many of Mrs Xuling adapters over the years and they hold up well.


----------



## nwavesailor

JTbbb said:


> Just had, an admittedly quick scoot around the tinternet, and the costs for four tubes and adapters, takes you into the realms of the tubes they compare with. They do look great though, and the more experimentation the better!


Yeah, the Visseaux, Brimar  and Tung Sol  6J5 w/ adapters are up there in cost with the TS 6F8 and 1578. 
The GEC L63 straight bottle (NOS from Langrex in your area) are supposed to be a great sounding tube  as well at 42.50 GBP. The guys at the 6J5 thread really love them! 
I'll try the GEC soon.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

nwavesailor said:


> It can be rotated but not 360 degrees. If you rotate it too far (I believe more than 90 degrees) you can break a wire.
> I've had many of Mrs Xuling adapters over the years and they hold up well.


I'm playing with limited space in the Woo, but these might be fun to play with.

What are your current favorites, and how do you compare the sound to either a 6F8 or Melz?


----------



## nwavesailor (Nov 14, 2022)

The adapters just arrived so I have only tried the Visseaux 6J5 at this point. I was expecting them to sound good, but not this good.
After 2-3 hours I found them to have more clarity (shocking when the 1578's are in the mix) than the TS or Melz.
In the Envy I found another level of clarity that frankly I didn't think would be possible.
Next up are the TS 6J5 VT-94A. Some on the 6J5 reference thread put the TS at the very top but I don't think they had the V's in their comparisons, The GEC L63 are also another top rated tube. Not as nice looking with the GT straight bottle. I'll try those as soon as a second pair arrives from Langrex.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

VT-93A appears to use a heater wire on top.  These adapters don't have them.  Are you sure it's a VT-93A?


----------



## nwavesailor (Nov 13, 2022)

Sorry, Tung Sol VT-94A

This was a post from @Xcalibur255 in the 6J5 thread from 2021. I find the last paragraph very interesting.

_

_


----------



## JTbbb

nwavesailor said:


> Sorry, Tung Sol VT-94A
> 
> This was a post from @Xcalibur255 in the 6J5 thread from 2021. I find the last paragraph very interesting.


Just let me get this right. The Envy will need x4 GEC L63’s plus x2 adapters?


----------



## nwavesailor

JTbbb said:


> Just let me get this right. The Envy will need x4 GEC L63’s plus x2 adapters?


Yup and as a bonus, you get 2 X the glow!

 Do a search of the 6J5 thread. People have the GEC L63 at or near the top and not as $$$ as 4 TS, Visseaux or STC / Brimar.


----------



## incredulousity

nwavesailor said:


> These are French Visseaux 6J5 and my initial impression is they _may_ be as good or better than the TSRP 6SN7, TSRP 6F8G / VT-99 and perhaps the 1578.
> These are stunning tubes that do everything right.
> 
> I have GEC L63 and TS 6J5 VT-93A to try.


Apropos to this:

What is the permissible heater current draw for the 6SN7 tube sockets on Envy? I have yet to see this published.


----------



## ThanatosVI

incredulousity said:


> Apropos to this:
> 
> What is the permissible heater current draw for the 6SN7 tube sockets on Envy? I have yet to see this published.


Every time I ask a question like this they stop answering the emailthread.
Dunno, they probably hate me by now.


----------



## JTbbb

nwavesailor said:


> Yup and as a bonus, you get 2 X the glow!
> 
> Do a search of the 6J5 thread. People have the GEC L63 at or near the top and not as $$$ as 4 TS, Visseaux or STC / Brimar.


Going to give it a go!


----------



## incredulousity

JTbbb said:


> Going to give it a go!


I’ll do that, and some WE 300B on Envy. Then and only then will I change my avatar pic.


----------



## nwavesailor

JTbbb said:


> Going to give it a go!


Very cool! 

I’m  sure you will find the 6J5 to work well In the Envy!

Perhaps it’s the Elrogs and 6J5’s but it’s a crazy good combo.

Are you going to snag the GEC L63 from Langrex?


----------



## JTbbb

nwavesailor said:


> Very cool!
> 
> I’m  sure you will find the 6J5 to work well In the Envy!
> 
> ...


They are on the way 😀. Need some advice on which adapters to get. Are they widely available? I guess not.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

JTbbb said:


> They are on the way 😀. Need some advice on which adapters to get. Are they widely available? I guess not.


Me too.  Picked up a quad set (not matched) of Zenith 6J5G's and the adapters - let the experimenting begin!


----------



## JTbbb

ColSaulTigh said:


> Me too.  Picked up a quad set (not matched) of Zenith 6J5G's and the adapters - let the experimenting begin!


I have sent a message to Deyan regarding the adapters. I was pleased with the socket savers I have had from him.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

JTbbb said:


> I have sent a message to Deyan regarding the adapters. I was pleased with the socket savers I have had from him.


I ordered a set off eBay from China - there are quite a few folks who like them.  I'm waiting for Deyan to send me offset adapters for another project - once they arrive I can decide how I like his quality as well.


----------



## nwavesailor

My adapters took a little over 2 weeks to arrive from China. The seller I have bought from is reliable and my adapters have held up over time.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

nwavesailor said:


> My adapters took a little over 2 weeks to arrive from China. The seller I have bought from is reliable and my adapters have held up over time.


I ordered from your source - tubes should be here end of this week.  It'll give me time to clean them up before testing.


----------



## JTbbb

ColSaulTigh said:


> I ordered from your source - tubes should be here end of this week.  It'll give me time to clean them up before testing.


Deyans ordered.


----------



## nwavesailor

ColSaulTigh said:


> Me too.  Picked up a quad set (not matched) of Zenith 6J5G's and the adapters - let the experimenting begin!


There are quite a few that really like the Zenith 6J5G. Good starting point before getting into the bigger $ GEC, Brimar, Visseaux or TS


----------



## 1Audiophool

Happy Elrog Dayyyyy!!!! 🥳 Hopefully won’t have to wait till the weekend to get some time with them. …work life is really interfering with my listening time


----------



## incredulousity

Run them in without listening then. They are nice out of box, but take time to mature.


----------



## nwavesailor

Welcome to the Elrog cult!

You will be pleased with your new bottles in the Envy…..


----------



## ColSaulTigh

1Audiophool said:


> Happy Elrog Dayyyyy!!!! 🥳 Hopefully won’t have to wait till the weekend to get some time with them. …work life is really interfering with my listening time


The Elrog Gods are pleased.


----------



## turbofeet

I'm told my Elrog's should be with me early next week as they are en route from Germany to the UK now.

I shall prepare...


----------



## Somatic

nwavesailor said:


> Sorry, Tung Sol VT-94A
> 
> This was a post from @Xcalibur255 in the 6J5 thread from 2021. I find the last paragraph very interesting.
> 
> __


Man, I am going to be a horder of tubes now. LOL.

So you like these 6J5G better than the Melz 1578? Oh man ... can't keep up hehe


----------



## incredulousity

Somatic said:


> Man, I am going to be a horder of tubes now. LOL.
> 
> So you like these 6J5G better than the Melz 1578? Oh man ... can't keep up hehe


FML... Say it isn't so! I have to buy more tubes?!!!


----------



## nwavesailor (Nov 15, 2022)

Somantic didn't know this part about tubes when he started down the rabbit hole with the Envy........... there is ALWAYS more!!!!

Not always better, just different flavors of tube goodness. He already has some of the greats in his quiver so don't feel bad for him...........


----------



## Somatic

nwavesailor said:


> Somantic didn't know this part about tubes when he started down the rabbit hole with the Envy........... there is ALWAYS more!!!!
> 
> Not always better, just different flavors of tube goodness. He already has some of the greats in his quiver so don't feel bad for him...........


Bought a cool hard case and will put all my tubes in it. Protected by foam. Similar to @ColSaulTigh but at a much smaller scale. Will take pics once I get it all setup. Moving in a few weeks so I didn't want to damage my precious tubez ............


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Somatic said:


> Bought a cool hard case and will put all my tubes in it. Protected by foam. Similar to @ColSaulTigh but at a much smaller scale. Will take pics once I get it all setup. Moving in a few weeks so I didn't want to damage my precious tubez ............


If it's any consolation, I'm heading down this rabbit hole myself.  Adapters and 1st set of quads ordered....more to come over in the e6J5 thread


----------



## 1Audiophool

Somatic said:


> Bought a cool hard case and will put all my tubes in it. Protected by foam. Similar to @ColSaulTigh but at a much smaller scale. Will take pics once I get it all setup. Moving in a few weeks so I didn't want to damage my precious tubez ............


I need to find something to store my larger tubes in too…they are very quickly accumulating and outgrowing my current storage.


----------



## incredulousity

I’m going to go there too. Better go buy @ColSaulTigh rifle case!


----------



## ColSaulTigh

1Audiophool said:


> I need to find something to store my larger tubes in too…they are very quickly accumulating and outgrowing my current storage.


*ahem* like this?


----------



## 1Audiophool

ColSaulTigh said:


> *ahem* like this?


I first I thought that it might be way more than I’ll need but actually looking at what I’ve acquired in just a couple months…maybe not.


----------



## Somatic

First Envy I’ve seen on classifieds. 

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/feliks-audio-envy-1-month-old.36479/


----------



## incredulousity

I for one respect and admire his fiscal responsibility.


----------



## bAsschiP

Somatic said:


> First Envy I’ve seen on classifieds.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/feliks-audio-envy-1-month-old.36479/


I suspect this won't last long!!!


----------



## incredulousity

In 3… 2… 1…


----------



## ThanatosVI

Somatic said:


> First Envy I’ve seen on classifieds.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/feliks-audio-envy-1-month-old.36479/


What did the amp cost on the US New (a month ago?)



incredulousity said:


> I for one respect and admire his fiscal responsibility.


Isn't overextending the budget irresponsible?


----------



## nwavesailor

$7800
I pre-ordered my Envy in March and expected to get a minimum of 10-15% off retail and I got 0.
 When I placed my order there was only ONE dealer in North America and they knew they could get full price.


----------



## ThanatosVI

nwavesailor said:


> $7800
> I pre-ordered my Envy in March and expected to get a minimum of 10-15% off retail and I got 0.
> When I placed my order there was only ONE dealer in North America and they knew they could get full price.


Did you try to contact Feliks directly for an Import?
Excluding vat the price was ~5400 directly from Feliks Audio 

However it's certainly true that dealers offer little to no discount since Feliks Audio can't keep up with the order volume as is


----------



## nwavesailor

No, but for $2400 I may have!
I figured if I ever needed a warranty repair and not have to ship it to Poland, I might want to buy from a US dealer. I did ask about repairs in the US and they did say yes.
@incredulousity is dealing with an Envy warranty repair right now and also bought from Upscale.


----------



## incredulousity

ThanatosVI said:


> What did the amp cost on the US New (a month ago?)
> 
> 
> Isn't overextending the budget irresponsible?


Yes, but correcting that error is responsible.


----------



## Somatic

ThanatosVI said:


> What did the amp cost on the US New (a month ago?)
> 
> 
> Isn't overextending the budget irresponsible?


$7800 for walnut standard. Got 10% off no tax. $7019 out the door. I think I know a guy in France that can get a better discount. I’m in US so he can only get European versions cheap.


----------



## Somatic

incredulousity said:


> Yes, but correcting that error is responsible.


Chicken or the egg


----------



## arthurito

I don’t know how can you get these discounts, Lukasz Feliks told me bluntly they don’t offer discounts to anyone!


----------



## ThanatosVI

arthurito said:


> I don’t know how can you get these discounts, Lukasz Feliks told me bluntly they don’t offer discounts to anyone!


The mentioned ~5500 is just the regular (old) price of 6500€ but excluding tax. (Which would be the case when ordering as US citizen directly from Feliks Audio)
No discount applied.

Some dealers may offer small discounts and lower their own profit margin


----------



## Somatic

ThanatosVI said:


> The mentioned ~5500 is just the regular (old) price of 6500€ but excluding tax. (Which would be the case when ordering as US citizen directly from Feliks Audio)
> No discount applied.
> 
> Some dealers may offer small discounts and lower their own profit margin


Not sure they will send to US directly. I think I may have asked. Upscale is the US distributor. I ended up getting mine from Headphones.com because they don't collect taxes.


----------



## sjssusma

Have been looking to try these with my zmf verite opens does anybody have any feedback on sound?


----------



## incredulousity

Somatic said:


> Not sure they will send to US directly. I think I may have asked. Upscale is the US distributor. I ended up getting mine from Headphones.com because they don't collect taxes.


I asked before purchasing. They said I needed to go through the USA vendor.


----------



## ThanatosVI

incredulousity said:


> I asked before purchasing. They said I needed to go through the USA vendor.


That sucks, but it's understandable.
They also asked me to go through the german distributor (which was great for me, since this is my go to guy for all things Audio...)


----------



## moosemp

sjssusma said:


> Have been looking to try these with my zmf verite opens does anybody have any feedback on sound?


You will not bee dissapointed. One of my prefered headphones for ENVY now.


----------



## Somatic

moosemp said:


> You will not bee dissapointed. One of my prefered headphones for ENVY now.


MMMMMmmmm, anyone tried the Envy on the Atriums yet? This was one of the reasons I got the Envy. I wanted to increase the holographic nature of the Atriums.


----------



## moosemp

You will certainly have excellent spatial presentation also with Verite closed and especially Focal Utopia😎🎶🎶. I do not have Atrium but will try Caldera


----------



## robo24 (Nov 18, 2022)

sjssusma said:


> Have been looking to try these with my zmf verite opens does anybody have any feedback on sound?


I've had the Verite for over 3 years and it's been my favorite headphone until the Caldera. Listened to it with the Envy at CanJam and was amazed and was by far the best I've heard it. Hard to describe but it just seemed like there was so much more there and was even more 3D/holographic. That and how great it was with the Caldera have put the Envy on my eventual buy list.

Not surprisingly the Atrium on the Envy was also the best I've heard that, but the leap seemed even greater on the Verite vs. my system at home (Sonnet Morpheus to ZMF Pendant SE or Glenn OTL.

When I got home I spent hours tube rolling trying to get closer to what I heard with the Envy and found some great combos but still nothing approaching the level of the Envy (standard models with PSVANE 300bs).


----------



## Somatic

robo24 said:


> I've had the Verite for over 3 years and it's been my favorite headphone until the Caldera. Listened to it with the Envy at CanJam and was amazed and was by far the best I've heard it. Hard to describe but it just seemed like there was so much more there and was even more 3D/holographic. That and how great it was with the Caldera have put the Envy on my eventual buy list.
> 
> Not surprisingly the Atrium on the Envy was also the best I've heard that, but the leap seemed even greater on the Verite vs. my system at home (Sonnet Morpheus to ZMF Pendant SE or Glenn OTL.
> 
> When I got home I spent hours tube rolling trying to get closer to what I heard with the Envy and found some great combos but still nothing approaching the level of the Envy (standard models with PSVANE 300bs).


Have you heard the Caldera on the Envy? Anyone?


----------



## robo24

Somatic said:


> Have you heard the Caldera on the Envy? Anyone?


Yes, that was also at CanJam and they had several setups and the Envy was my favorite even over the $30k dcs Lina setup. They had the Envy with the Sonnet Pasithea DAC. It was especially electrostat-like on the Envy. It also has that quality on my personal setup but not as much.


----------



## moosemp

I heard dcs Lina setup in WARSAW at High end show with SUSVARA and was amazed. But I would not trade my ENVY or Riviera for it. I will rather buy DCS dac and clock and use my headphones amps. But it will need more time to make decision. And more listening. And a lot of money🏋🏼‍♂️


----------



## Somatic

moosemp said:


> From initial listening nothing can be said, I will need some 4 weeks for decent and honest comparison with Riviera


Sorry but did you do this comparison. I couldn’t find it. Thanks


----------



## Somatic

Was reading the Musicalhead review. He was using stock performance tubes. In regards to Susvara bass he mentions,

"The bass reproduction through the FELIKS tube amplifier is by no means
too dominant, but rather of a slim nature, without ever missing the
necessary pressure in the frequency basement. The bass is excellently
structured and convinces with excellent contour and exemplary impulse
fidelity."

Slim sounded bass on the Susvara does not sound appealing. Wondering if this gets remedied by using Elrogs and NOS 6SN7s?

@nwavesailor How is the bass on your Susvara with your current setup? Does it have increased quantity and quality compared to your other setups?

Also his take on the Riviera vs the Envy is interesting.

"... the performance fanatic who likes to experiment may reach for a
RIVIERA AIC10, which undoubtedly surpasses the Polish high-flyer in
terms of dynamic attack."

Reference: https://feliksaudio.pl/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Review-FELIKS-AUDIO-ENVY-PDF.pdf


----------



## nwavesailor

I’m happy with the Sus, Elrog and many 6SN7  and 1578 in the Envy.

Moving to dual 6J5G (TS or Vissaeux ) has taken it up several notches. Frankly I didn’t think it was possible to get more clarity (we both have the Dave) but I was wrong!


----------



## moosemp (Nov 20, 2022)

Yes, certainly Riviera is surpassing ENVY in some particular fields of musical image but it does come from limitations of ANY 300B tube vs transisror. On The contrary-one can say ENVY surpasses transistor- hybrid amps in terms of delicacy, musicality, true to The real , live music and so forth. You need to undersatnd that these are top of The linę amps with some advantages and disadvantages of technology used  to execute its creator’s path. In my room they coexist pacefully

and some Old Pulteney tooooooo…..


----------



## moosemp

It is Russian made from Novisibirsk factory. NOS. Do you think I can use it for ENVY?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

moosemp said:


> It is Russian made from Novisibirsk factory. NOS. Do you think I can use it for ENVY?


Yes, it's a 6H8C, so Russian equivalent to 6SN7.  No promises on how it will sound though - could be great, could be terrible....only one way to find out.


----------



## moosemp

Thanks. I do appreciate your knowledge. I will try on my own but just wanted to know if it is safe for my amp🎶🌷


----------



## moosemp

It will take some time since now it is Riviera time😎


----------



## incredulousity

Update on my Envy:

They found the problem. There was a single bad solder joint on a heater current rectifier connection for the right 300B tube. It was intermittent (for them, repair by UPS handling), and they were only finally able to reproduce the problem today. They have fixed it, and will be running in the amp for 1-1.5 days, then ship it back. I hope to have it back by Friday, Kudos to the service staff at Upscale Audio for their persistence and kindness. They said that they have almost no problems with Feliks amps over the years, and that this was surprising  to them, but they were happy to have found the problem.


----------



## Somatic

incredulousity said:


> Update on my Envy:
> 
> They found the problem. There was a single bad solder joint on a heater current rectifier connection for the right 300B tube. It was intermittent (for them, repair by UPS handling), and they were only finally able to reproduce the problem today. They have fixed it, and will be running in the amp for 1-1.5 days, then ship it back. I hope to have it back by Friday, Kudos to the service staff at Upscale Audio for their persistence and kindness. They said that they have almost no problems with Feliks amps over the years, and that this was surprising  to them, but they were happy to have found the problem.


Thanks for the feedback. So they shipped it to Poland for repairs? You as a customer didn't pay anything for shipping etc, correct?


----------



## Somatic

Oh side note, doesn't seem USA is getting many Envy units. According to Headphones.com 1 unit coming in this month and 2 units coming in Dec. Looks like the Nov unit did arrive this week to Upscale. Hopefully that is mine. Mid Dec is ETA for my Walnut Standard unit.

So not sure if these 3 units are for Headphones.com and Upscale is getting more inventory as well? Either way doesn't seem a bunch of people are buying these units. High price tag in effect?


----------



## incredulousity

Somatic said:


> Thanks for the feedback. So they shipped it to Poland for repairs? You as a customer didn't pay anything for shipping etc, correct?


They repaired it. They did not ship it to Poland. It cost me nothing.


----------



## nwavesailor

Good to hear that Upscale stuck with it until the intermittent issue came back and it is an easy fix!


----------



## Somatic

incredulousity said:


> They repaired it. They did not ship it to Poland. It cost me nothing.


Great news


----------



## incredulousity

Envy has been shipped. I should get it back Saturday, FedEx permitting.

That should make the wait for Bliss less painful.


----------



## nwavesailor

Again, glad they were patient figured it out. Now you gotta get aiming towards the 6J5G rabbit hole!


----------



## incredulousity

nwavesailor said:


> Again, glad they were patient figured it out. Now you gotta get aiming towards the 6J5G rabbit hole!


Nooooooooooooooo!

Ok. Yes


----------



## nwavesailor

I can assure you it is a nice warm rabbit hole as long as you have some $$$ or a CC that needs a workout!


----------



## incredulousity (Nov 23, 2022)

nwavesailor said:


> I can assure you it is a nice warm rabbit hole as long as you have some $$$ or a CC that needs a workout!







I’m not. But I know who is.


----------



## paradoxper

nwavesailor said:


> Again, glad they were patient figured it out. Now you gotta get aiming towards the 6J5G rabbit hole!


No, no, you need the TM300B. Trust me.


----------



## nwavesailor

Is the TM300B available to mere mortals or just connected guys like you?


----------



## paradoxper

nwavesailor said:


> Is the TM300B available to mere mortals or just connected guys like you?


I am working on this for you. I'm also trying to nudge Thomas to the 6SN7. Long road.


----------



## nwavesailor (Nov 24, 2022)

Thanks!

I'd go for the TM!!!!!! I got caught up in the temporary shortage of the ER300B and ordered a second pair. A little silly with a 12 month warranty. I may sell those backups unused with the remaining 10 months Elrog warranty and snag the TM if available.

The 6J5 are really great tubes. IMO, as good or perhaps better than the 1578. I just got some 1960's L63 GEC smoked glass and some GEC L63 (GT) from the 70's today.


----------



## ThanatosVI

paradoxper said:


> I'm also trying to nudge Thomas to the 6SN7.


Fighting the Important battles for us!


----------



## Somatic

paradoxper said:


> I am working on this for you. I'm also trying to nudge Thomas to the 6SN7. Long road.


TM much better than MO/ER? What are the differences? Also you are still pairing TM with 1578? 

Add me to the TM queue if you can


----------



## paradoxper

Somatic said:


> TM much better than MO/ER? What are the differences? Also you are still pairing TM with 1578?
> 
> Add me to the TM queue if you can


As ER departs from traditional 300B, so does TM depart from ER.

The TM is eerie in vocal production up to all I've heard with far more linearity and clarity than either ER. They're more in line with a 45 or 10Y, the sense of presence is entirely fluid and devoid of coloration with even bigger spatial information and far greater depth.

I always use the 1578 with some varied usage of RCA grey when I pair with Valkryia. But the Trafomatic Primavera is generally my preference.


----------



## incredulousity

Interested in the TM of course! Thanks for the description of their sound. Please feel free to elaborate further.


----------



## Wes S

paradoxper said:


> As ER departs from traditional 300B, so does TM depart from ER.
> 
> The TM is eerie in vocal production up to all I've heard with far more linearity and clarity than either ER. They're more in line with a 45 or 10Y, the sense of presence is entirely fluid and devoid of coloration with even bigger spatial information and far greater depth.
> 
> I always use the 1578 with some varied usage of RCA grey when I pair with Valkryia. But the Trafomatic Primavera is generally my preference.


Curious if you have ever tried 6J5's?  I really trust your opinion on tubes and I have pretty much seen all my buddies that used 6SN7's eventually go to 6J5's, so I am curious if you have tried them and then decided to stick with the 1578 and why?  I have been watching my man @nwavesailor enjoying them as of late, and as it usually goes I follow his lead eventually and I am thinking of giving them a try.


----------



## Somatic

incredulousity said:


> Interested in the TM of course! Thanks for the description of their sound. Please feel free to elaborate further.


@paradoxper Taking bulk orders? Haha. I’m sure a handful of us are interested.


----------



## paradoxper

incredulousity said:


> Interested in the TM of course! Thanks for the description of their sound. Please feel free to elaborate further.


You have to hear it similarly like comparing WE vs Elrog, the presence and resolution is another layer more revealed.


----------



## incredulousity

Somatic said:


> @paradoxper Taking bulk orders? Haha. I’m sure a handful of us are interested.


Though I wonder if dividing my love among all three types of Elrog would be more polyamory than I could handle.


----------



## paradoxper

Wes S said:


> Curious if you have ever tried 6J5's?  I really trust your opinion on tubes and I have pretty much seen all my buddies that used 6SN7's eventually go to 6J5's, so I am curious if you have tried them and then decided to stick with the 1578 and why?  I have been watching my man @nwavesailor enjoying them as of late, and as it usually goes I follow his lead eventually and I am thinking of giving them a try.


I do like the 6J5, however, the 1578 is the exception as it's very clearly a special tube. Why I like it aside from being extremely balanced is the soundstage and holography it presents along with the scale of resolution which is most important to me of any sound characteristic.


----------



## paradoxper

incredulousity said:


> Though I wonder if dividing my love among all three types of Elrog would be more polyamory than I could handle.


It's inevitable. In coming years, there will be other ER variants.


----------



## TaronL

Somatic said:


> Either way doesn't seem a bunch of people are buying these units


Quite the opposite. Lots buying (for the perspective of an $8k amp) just very limited inventory. We placed our first order for some Envy units on January 12th of this year, got 1 retail unit just in time for CanJam SoCal so we decided to open that up and show off at the show and use as a demo unit. We received one other unit this month. So almost a year between our initial order and getting any retail stock. 

We're hoping that supply for parts and build can pick up soon! The Walnut Performance is proving to be the most popular by far and the backorder list is growing longer and longer for it!


----------



## Somatic

TaronL said:


> Quite the opposite. Lots buying (for the perspective of an $8k amp) just very limited inventory. We placed our first order for some Envy units on January 12th of this year, got 1 retail unit just in time for CanJam SoCal so we decided to open that up and show off at the show and use as a demo unit. We received one other unit this month. So almost a year between our initial order and getting any retail stock.
> 
> We're hoping that supply for parts and build can pick up soon! The Walnut Performance is proving to be the most popular by far and the backorder list is growing longer and longer for it!


Thanks for the info. Wow. That’s crazy. Hoping that Nov order is mine lol. I’ll ping Alan on Monday. Hehe


----------



## MichalZZZZ

Hi,

I have Feliks Envy Performance, but it's a bit too soft and slow for me. I miss dynamics and details. I'm thinking of replacing it with a WA33. Or should I keep Envy and order Elrog Mo? What do you think? Please help me 

My DAC is Holo May KTE. Second amp Niimbus US5 Pro. Headphones are Abyss 1266 Phi TC, Audeze LCD5, ZMF Verite Closed and Meze Empyrean.

Some of my pics :


----------



## Somatic

MichalZZZZ said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have Feliks Envy Performance, but it's a bit too soft and slow for me. I miss dynamics and details. I'm thinking of replacing it with a WA33. Or should I keep Envy and order Elrog Mo? What do you think? Please help me
> 
> ...


Which tubes are you using? That Walnut is might pretty. 

Just bought a Walnut office desk to match my Envy. 

Still waiting. Lol


----------



## MichalZZZZ

Full Music 300B & PsVane CV-181 mk2.


----------



## incredulousity

I’m not sure that he should judge until he has 200 hours on the amp. The driver tubes take a long time to burn in. I would not describe the amp burned in as he describes it. 

His pix show the stock performance tubes. PSVane and FullMusic. 

He will notice substantial improvement in the direction he wants from either Elrog, or even from AN4300E. Given his desires as stated, perhaps Elrog Mo are the best choice. Further improvements can be obtained by rolling the 6SN7 tubes.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Somatic said:


> Just bought a Walnut office desk to match my Envy.


Same the desk is here, still waiting on the Envy tho


----------



## MichalZZZZ

incredulousity said:


> I’m not sure that he should judge until he has 200 hours on the amp. The driver tubes take a long time to burn in. I would not describe the amp burned in as he describes it.
> 
> His pix show the stock performance tubes. PSVane and FullMusic.
> 
> He will notice substantial improvement in the direction he wants from either Elrog, or even from AN4300E. Given his desires as stated, perhaps Elrog Mo are the best choice. Further improvements can be obtained by rolling the 6SN7 tubes.


Tubes worked for about 100 hours. It's still too soft and slow for me  Elrog Mo will be brighter, faster and more transparent? Bass won't lose power then?


----------



## incredulousity

MichalZZZZ said:


> Tubes worked for about 100 hours. It's still too soft and slow for me  Elrog Mo will be brighter, faster and more transparent? Bass won't lose power then?


Correct. Bass is deeper, faster, and exceedingly well defined and controlled. The Elrog Mo are unlike anything else in 300B. The ER are as good, but a little more tooooby.


----------



## nwavesailor (Nov 25, 2022)

Must...........resist..............Black Friday..................MO...................for ME!!!!!!

Perhaps I'll wait to see if the TM is available at some point. Maybe some Christmas Magic!


----------



## ColSaulTigh

MichalZZZZ said:


> Tubes worked for about 100 hours. It's still too soft and slow for me  Elrog Mo will be brighter, faster and more transparent? Bass won't lose power then?


You want Elrog EM300B-Mo's and replace those drivers with some Melz 1578's (good luck finding them).


----------



## ColSaulTigh

nwavesailor said:


> Must...........resist..............Black Friday..................MO...................for ME!!!!!!
> 
> Perhaps I'll wait to see if the TM is available at some point. Maybe some Christmas Magic!


Don't count on the TM's being available anytime in the immediate future.


----------



## ThanatosVI

nwavesailor said:


> Must...........resist..............Black Friday..................MO...................for ME!!!!!!
> 
> Perhaps I'll wait to see if the TM is available at some point. Maybe some Christmas Magic!


Are there Elrog black friday deals somewhere?


----------



## nwavesailor (Nov 25, 2022)

I can dream about TM's cant I?

I have this vision of ColSaulTigh wearing a trench coat. He approaches @MichalZZZZ and flashes a pair of MO's and then tells him:
 "Relax, kid.............I'll let you listen for 15 minutes, NO cost and no risk" and another Elrog MO addict is hooked and in the Elrog cult!


----------



## ColSaulTigh

nwavesailor said:


> I can dream about TM's cant I?
> 
> I have this vision of ColSaulTigh wearing a trench coat. He approaches @MichalZZZZ and flashes a pair of MO's and then tells him:
> "Relax, kid.............I'll let you listen for 15 minutes, NO cost and no risk" and another Elrog MO addict is hooked and in the Elrog cult!


The question is - what am I wearing UNDER the trench coat???


----------



## nwavesailor

😝


----------



## incredulousity

ColSaulTigh said:


> The question is - what am I wearing UNDER the trench coat???


A bandolier of 6SN7 tube variants.


----------



## turbofeet

ColSaulTigh said:


> The question is - what am I wearing UNDER the trench coat???


----------



## Somatic

ThanatosVI said:


> Same the desk is here, still waiting on the Envy tho


I was just informed that my Envy wasn’t in the Nov batch. Should be in tHe Dec batch. Crossing my fingers. Well at least I will be ready once it’s here. Too bad I can burn in the tubes while I wait haha.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Somatic said:


> I was just informed that my Envy wasn’t in the Nov batch. Should be in tHe Dec batch. Crossing my fingers. Well at least I will be ready once it’s here. Too bad I can burn in the tubes while I wait haha.


Sorry to hear that, hope it will be with you by christmas. 

I'm not sure if mine will be december or january. It's the last one in an already ordered batch of my dealer, so fingers crossed for christmas.


----------



## nwavesailor

Somatic said:


> I was just informed that my Envy wasn’t in the Nov batch. Should be in tHe Dec batch. Crossing my fingers. Well at least I will be ready once it’s here. Too bad I can burn in the tubes while I wait haha.


You are in GREAT shape with your tubes.

I’m not a big tube ‘burn in’ guy and pretty sure you’ll hear the difference’s in your top shelf tubes right away!


----------



## Somatic

nwavesailor said:


> You are in GREAT shape with your tubes.
> 
> I’m not a big tube ‘burn in’ guy and pretty sure you’ll hear the difference’s in your top shelf tubes right away!


Honestly I’m going to try out the stock tubes for an hour max before I switch over haha.


----------



## turbofeet

Looking forward to both of your thoughts.

Try to forget about it then it'll be a nice surprise 😉


----------



## nwavesailor

I may have stayed with the stock tubes for an hour……

Some forum members like to get a feel for a new piece of gear with the stock tubes for days or even weeks.

 I know I’ll end up using some of my better tubes at some point and just get on with the rolling!


----------



## nwavesailor

paradoxper said:


> I do like the 6J5, however, the 1578 is the exception as it's very clearly a special tube. Why I like it aside from being extremely balanced is the soundstage and holography it presents along with the scale of resolution which is most important to me of any sound characteristic.


Perhaps the 1578 is a hair better in resolution than some 6J5 but they are so close it's a toss up for me.

The 1960's GEC grey glass, Visseaux and Tung Sol 6J5G are so impressive I keep coming back to them and comparing them to the Melz. I'm convinced that these 3  6J5G go deeper in a nice tight bass as well as having fantastic detail and clarity.

I wasn't as impressed with the GEC, 6J5GT straight bottle and the 1578 may indeed be better than that version.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

nwavesailor said:


> Perhaps the 1578 is a hair better in resolution than some 6J5 but they are so close it's a toss up for me.
> 
> The 1960's GEC grey glass, Visseaux and Tung Sol 6J5G are so impressive I keep coming back to them and comparing them to the Melz. I'm convinced that these 3  6J5G go deeper in a nice tight bass as well as having fantastic detail and clarity.
> 
> I wasn't as impressed with the GEC, 6J5GT straight bottle and the 1578 may indeed be better than that version.


Good lord!  I thought the Melz were getting expensive - $325/pair, so $650 for quads of the GEC 6J5....I might just have to sell one of my Melz 1578 just to afford them!


----------



## nwavesailor

Yup!

I snagged a GEC quad  from India and Tube World.

A quad of  vissaeux are less than $500 and that seller will accept a lower price.

They V’s  as quite good.


----------



## nwavesailor

Let me test the quad of Vissaeux and listen to them to be sure they are quiet before buying from this seller.


----------



## 1Audiophool

You guys are killing me with these new variants.😆
 Currently loving the Elrog/1578 combination


----------



## nwavesailor

There is nothing wrong with that combination. It is certainly one of the best I have tried, too!!!!


----------



## turbofeet

So no adapters necessary for these since they are 6SN7?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/30444377...AKhRTzZSRi&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

They look quite small. Are they fiddly to fit in the recessed socket?

Just curious really. I'm not intending to do much tube rolling...just a little. It is certainly interesting hearing about the combinations you guys try. Seems quite the rabbit hole.

Still waiting for those Elrogs (expected last week) but really enjoying it with stock tubes for now.


----------



## nwavesailor (Nov 26, 2022)

No adapters needed. They are a bit of a tight fit recessed into the driver sockets. I wasnt too excited to have bought the 1578 and then try to get enough grip of the base and not pull by the glass envelope so I use socket savers.

The Melz you linked to don't appear to be the ones with the round holes in the plates that folks are usually hunting for.


----------



## turbofeet

nwavesailor said:


> No adapters needed. They are a bit of a tight fit recessed into the driver sockets. I wasnt too excited to have bought the 1578 and then try to get enough grip of the base and not pull by the glass envelope.
> 
> The 1578 you linked to don't appear to be the ones with the round holes in the plates that folks are usually hunting for.


Thank you on both counts.

Just browsing 🙂


----------



## JTbbb

turbofeet said:


> So no adapters necessary for these since they are 6SN7?
> 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/30444377...AKhRTzZSRi&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
> 
> ...


They are not 1578’s. Most likely nice tubes though.


----------



## JTbbb

nwavesailor said:


> No adapters needed. They are a bit of a tight fit recessed into the driver sockets. I wasnt too excited to have bought the 1578 and then try to get enough grip of the base and not pull by the glass envelope.
> 
> The 1578 you linked to don't appear to be the ones with the round holes in the plates that folks are usually hunting for.


Rather than the holes in the plates, it’s more to do with the top mica supports that identify a 1578,  being a thin metal strip either side.


----------



## nwavesailor

Thanks!

I have some of the 'real' 1578 and thought it was the holes.


----------



## JTbbb

nwavesailor said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I have some of the 'real' 1578 and thought it was the holes.


I don’t know how to make the link. But if you do a search in the 6sn7 threads, you will soon find the articles identifying the various construction attributes of the Melz 6sn7 types. Posted by far more knowledgeable people than I!


----------



## ColSaulTigh

This should help.


----------



## JTbbb

ColSaulTigh said:


> This should help.


Thanks ColSaulTigh 👍


----------



## nwavesailor

Nice!
 This is very helpful in pointing out what to look for in a REAL 1578


----------



## ColSaulTigh

I can't take credit - pulled this from a while back from the forum. Thought it might come in handy in the future.


----------



## nwavesailor

Good you found it and posted the REAL 1578 cheat sheet!


----------



## George Hincapie

I haven't got the energy to read 91 pages; how is Envy with Susvara?


----------



## zen87192 (Nov 26, 2022)

I heard the Envy with Susvara at SoCal CanJam this year.... it's what convinced me to get an Envy... delivery Mid December now...can't wait... my Susvara's are lonely.... Zahl HM-1 came a close second.


----------



## alekc

George Hincapie said:


> I haven't got the energy to read 91 pages; how is Envy with Susvara?


@George Hincapie  simply: brilliant / amazing. This is IMHO reference amp and the synergy with Susvara can be heared in the first notes. Meze Empyrean falls a bit behind but considering the price difference it should not be surprising.

PS: I am talking about Performance version with PSVane tubes instead of Full Music ones.


----------



## George Hincapie

alekc said:


> @George Hincapie  simply: brilliant / amazing. This is IMHO reference amp and the synergy with Susvara can be heared in the first notes. Meze Empyrean falls a bit behind but considering the price difference it should not be surprising.
> 
> PS: I am talking about Performance version with PSVane tubes instead of Full Music ones.



That's useful, thank you.


----------



## incredulousity

alekc said:


> @George Hincapie  simply: brilliant / amazing. This is IMHO reference amp and the synergy with Susvara can be heared in the first notes. Meze Empyrean falls a bit behind but considering the price difference it should not be surprising.
> 
> PS: I am talking about Performance version with PSVane tubes instead of Full Music ones.


Both versions have PSVane drivers. The performance version has FullMusic 300B tubes.


----------



## nwavesailor

It is a great pairing, particularly with Elrogs!


----------



## Somatic

zen87192 said:


> I heard the Envy with Susvara at SoCal CanJam this year.... it's what convinced me to get an Envy... delivery Mid December now...can't wait... my Susvara's are lonely.... Zahl HM-1 came a close second.


This picture makes me wish I found a black colored Dave instead. Looks so nice 

What convinced you exactly? What amp where you using before?


----------



## nwavesailor

Somatic said:


> This picture makes me wish I found a black colored Dave instead. Looks so nice


Nah, the silver Dave sound WAY better!


----------



## nwavesailor (Nov 26, 2022)

ColSaulTigh said:


> This should help.


I have 2 pairs of what I_ thought _were the real 1578.
 I was thinking, and perhaps the seller from VietNam, that the holes denoted 1578 and I got screwed. They are a decent version, but NOT worth the top dollar I paid for real 1578. In 20 years of buying tubes, I've been pretty fortunate to have not been fleeced until this pair. Live and learn!

EDIT: The1578  pair I bought from a well respected HeadFi member ARE real so I do have a pair.


----------



## zen87192

nwavesailor said:


> Nah, the silver Dave sound WAY better!


The Black coloured DAVE sounds 'Darker' 😂


----------



## 1Audiophool

nwavesailor said:


> I have 2 pairs of what I_ thought _were the real 1578.
> I was thinking, and perhaps the seller from VietNam, that the holes denoted 1578 and I got screwed. They are a decent version, but NOT worth the top dollar I paid for real 1578. In 20 years of buying tubes, I've been pretty fortunate to have not been fleeced until this pair. Live and learn!
> 
> EDIT: The1578  pair I bought from a well respected HeadFi member ARE real so I do have a pair.


Same… I bought a couple pair that turned out to be the center image variety and a pair I bought from a member on a different forum a while back turn out to be the real deal… listed as 6N8S’s 😲 Evens out I suppose, as the real ones were pretty inexpensive


----------



## nwavesailor (Nov 27, 2022)

As good as the 1578 sound paired with the Elrogs in the Envy..........and they are very good.............I am stunned by how fantastic several 6J5's sound with the Elrog's. The standouts in the Envy are the GEC grey glass 6J5G followed by the Visseaux and Tung Sol. The clarity, detail and bass is quite good with all 3 but the bass is outstanding with the GEC.
 I thought the trifecta of the 'real' 1578, TSRP 6F8G and TSRP 6SN7 were as good as it was going to get in the Envy until I rediscovered the 6J5G


----------



## 1Audiophool

nwavesailor said:


> As good as the 1578 sound paired with the Elrogs in the Envy..........and they are very good.............I am stunned by how fantastic several 6J5's sound with the Elrog's. The standouts in the Envy are the GEC grey glass 6J5G followed by the Visseaux and Tung Sol. The clarity, detail and bass is quite good with all 3 but outstanding with the GEC.
> I thought the trifecta of the 'real' 1578, TSRP 6F8G and TSRP 6SN7 were as good as it was going to get in the Envy until I rediscovered the 6J5G


Would you mind sharing a source for these?


----------



## nwavesailor (Nov 27, 2022)

Two pairs of the GEC grey glass 6J5G I snagged were from Tube World Express, yes these are BIG $$$ ($700 / 2 pairs) but test and sound great. TW is top dollar but you get what he says and I have never had any issues.


 A seller in India, Totempole-999 has a similar price, $660 shipped. The same company under another name (electronicsmen) accepted my offers for less than $250/ pair but charged me for 2 x $35 shipping after I asked about combined shipping. Not an honest way to do business but the tubes tested as advertised.

Langrex in the UK has several options including STC / Brimar 6J5G that are supposed to be very good for less than $400 shipped. I have not heard them. 

Do a search on Langrex for L63 / 6J5. They have GEC L63 (Hammersmith production) straight bottle at 35 GBP for a well reviewed tube. I didn't find it as good as the GEC ST shape from the 1950 /60's but at far less than 200 GBP for 4 shipped it's a deal!

The Visseaux are French made and seem to be available from sellers in Italy. One seller (pietoburgo77) took an offer lower than full price for a quad 2 weeks ago. You might ask him if he has more than the pair listed. He has had a steady supply of Visseaux for 7-8 years that I'm aware of.

I have no affiliation with any of these sellers other than buying their tubes.


----------



## incredulousity

Envy is back and working perfectly!

Kudos to Upscale Audio for their persistence and expedient service. 

I forgot how much better this thing is!


----------



## ColSaulTigh

incredulousity said:


> Envy is back and working perfectly!
> 
> Kudos to Upscale Audio for their persistence and expedient service.
> 
> I forgot how much better this thing is!


... And yet, no pics.


----------



## incredulousity (Nov 28, 2022)

The environment is messy. I’ve been sick in bed for 3 days. Must tidy up first!

Of course now, I don’t want to get out of bed because… listening to Envy!


----------



## nwavesailor

I added the STC / Brimar 6J5G to my quiver.

HO HO HO,  Merry Christmas to me!🎅


----------



## incredulousity

I love to hate you!


----------



## nwavesailor (Nov 28, 2022)

You are obviously still under the weather and NOT in the sprit of the season.

That’s the ‘tube hoarding’ season!

Bah, HUMBUG!!!!


----------



## incredulousity

incredulousity said:


> I love to hate you!


But in fairness, I would not know about 6J5 option but for you.


----------



## incredulousity

Now that Envy is back…

I have CA-1a and TA-1A. Any wisdom for which input on the box to use, and which impedance setting on Envy to use?


----------



## nwavesailor

I have yet to find or try a clunker 6J5 / L63's in the Envy.

Visseaux, TS, GEC L-63 straight bottle and these grey glass GEC 6J5G CV/1067. I like them all and could easily live with any but these GEC may be my favorites..........at least until I put in another pair!

I'm glad I dug out some 6J5's I had and bought some other new additions and tried them in the Envy. The 6J5 are a great pairing with the Elrog's.


----------



## turbofeet

It seems I'm an expert at finding these now thanks to you guys:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/22527397...jaPpSIHYADmeWBWYf4wEM3eOE=|tkp:Bk9SR_isnsGYYQ
Quite pricey though still and I'm still on the fence so if one of you snap it up I won't be upset .

My Elrogs (ER not MO) have arrived today, so I need to try them when I get home in about an hour. 

Do the Elrogs need any burn in or are they great out of the box? 

Of course I'll give them 15mins to warm up first but just wondering if I shouldn't judge them right away. Of course I can't keep them burning in overnight.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

turbofeet said:


> It seems I'm an expert at finding these now thanks to you guys:
> 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225273972473?hash=item34736006f9:g:Wy4AAOSwBdNjhhaK&amdata=enc:AQAHAAAAoEdN2fFvIUFej/zOmhqSkFoXW9eB+S26NE9/GAvSGZ/ksS7gm752pT5Aaqx2AnYi7KS0nV4UKOE3uQNUWORrEsAVZ00XOjUM+OPlLzjHRgcYFvMoukJqxAYUTQ47lu8XXZ69W1xy0UN8U7Dn7E9n8qk2NHHgJ1zFPVaEn8J2/P0QT+tiSmsq0HWIVpzHMojaPpSIHYADmeWBWYf4wEM3eOE=|tkp:Bk9SR_isnsGYYQ
> Quite pricey though still and I'm still on the fence so if one of you snap it up I won't be upset .
> ...


Those are a bargain - buy them!

As for the Elrogs, they will need 15 minutes to warm up, and once warm, will sound bold and beefy.  They will be a bit brittle at start, and soften ever so slightly within a hundred hours or so.  Once they soften up, they're quite brilliant and balanced.


----------



## turbofeet

ColSaulTigh said:


> Those are a bargain - buy them!
> 
> As for the Elrogs, they will need 15 minutes to warm up, and once warm, will sound bold and beefy.  They will be a bit brittle at start, and soften ever so slightly within a hundred hours or so.  Once they soften up, they're quite brilliant and balanced.


Thank you...and...bad influence strikes again... 

There are 3 more matched pairs left it seems so plenty to go round...


----------



## ColSaulTigh

turbofeet said:


> Thank you...and...bad influence strikes again...
> 
> There are 3 more matched pairs left it seems so plenty to go round...


ONE more pair left...and I didn't even buy any!


----------



## Somatic

turbofeet said:


> Thank you...and...bad influence strikes again...
> 
> There are 3 more matched pairs left it seems so plenty to go round...


Damn it. Are these NIB? I already have 2 matched pairs, lightly used. I guess I get another one. So these are the legit ones? Ugh LOL


----------



## turbofeet

Lol yeah I noticed


----------



## turbofeet

Yep the real deal somatic.


----------



## Somatic (Nov 29, 2022)

Ok damn. Bought the last pair. You guys are bad influences. LOL

Edit: I fall for FOMO so easily. They were selling like hot cakes! Thanks @turbofeet


----------



## incredulousity

I bought one of the Melz pairs.

Thanks you guys!


----------



## turbofeet

ColSaulTigh said:


> ONE more pair left...and I didn't even buy any!


I didn't stay on the fence for long did I


----------



## Somatic

turbofeet said:


> I didn't stay on the fence for long did I


Well if you stayed on the fence a fraction longer they would have been gone. hehe


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Somatic said:


> Damn it. Are these NIB? I already have 2 matched pairs, lightly used. I guess I get another one. So these are the legit ones? Ugh LOL


Technically, they're what's called "NOS" or "New Old-Stock".  They probably don't have boxes as they were most likely made in bulk for Soviet military use.



turbofeet said:


> Yep the real deal somatic.


Yeah, these appear to be genuine.  They are properly constructed, have the right "Domino" holes and the oversized O-getter.



Somatic said:


> Ok damn. Bought the last pair. You guys are bad influences. LOL
> 
> Edit: I fall for FOMO so easily. They were selling like hot cakes! Thanks @turbofeet


As I've said before, an ex nicknamed me "The Bad Influence" and it's stuck ever since.  So, just living up to my reputation!



incredulousity said:


> I bought one of the Melz pairs.
> 
> Thanks you guys!


Glad to be of service!


----------



## zen87192

Awe... damn .... missed them. Shift work interferes with everything. Gosh... that's annoying.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

zen87192 said:


> Awe... damn .... missed them. Shift work interferes with everything. Gosh... that's annoying.


Message the seller - he may have more.


----------



## 1Audiophool

Damnnnnnnnn!!! Late to the party as usual 🤬


----------



## ColSaulTigh

1Audiophool said:


> Damnnnnnnnn!!! Late to the party as usual 🤬


Gotta stay alert!


----------



## 1Audiophool

ColSaulTigh said:


> Gotta stay alert!


Lol, I guess so!!…was just looking at this sellers store last night! Weren’t there then 🥹


----------



## ThanatosVI

1Audiophool said:


> Lol, I guess so!!…was just looking at this sellers store last night! Weren’t there then 🥹


As usual,  drop him a message 
Often times they have more stock than in the listing


----------



## turbofeet

1Audiophool said:


> Lol, I guess so!!…was just looking at this sellers store last night! Weren’t there then 🥹


He said he has sold hundreds of them but these are the best he's seen.

This does imply he will likely get more.

Add him to your list on eBay so you're notified when he puts more up.

Is it worth getting some socket savers if these things are fiddly to seat in the Envy?

If so are there any recommendations for brand/Seller?

Cheers


----------



## JTbbb

turbofeet said:


> He said he has sold hundreds of them but these are the best he's seen.
> 
> This does imply he will likely get more.
> 
> ...


These are Deyans. Have had no trouble with them at all.


----------



## turbofeet

JTbbb said:


> These are Deyans. Have had no trouble with them at all.


Thank you. Is he another Head-fi member?

I'll search him up if so.

Wow these Elrogs make a lovely light show. They are clicking away while they warm up.

Does it mess with anyone's OCD that the logo doesn't face front?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

turbofeet said:


> Does it mess with anyone's OCD that the logo doesn't face front?


Oh, very much so!  I've been tempted to get someone to build me 300B > 300B "rotating" sockets as well as some 5U4G > 5U4G ones as well.  But then I've experienced the quality of Woo Audio's adapters, and those have spoiled me on adapters, so I just surrender to knowing that the logo is the least impressive part of the tubes (although some of my mesh tubes would look much better oriented the "right" way...)


----------



## turbofeet

JTbbb said:


> These are Deyans. Have had no trouble with them at all.


Thanks - found him 👌


----------



## turbofeet

ColSaulTigh said:


> As for the Elrogs, they will need 15 minutes to warm up, and once warm, will sound bold and beefy.  They will be a bit brittle at start, and soften ever so slightly within a hundred hours or so.  Once they soften up, they're quite brilliant and balanced.


Wow your description is perfect. I loved the Envy for the meatyness and the air it added to the music. Every instrument was clear, bold and in its own little space but these Elrogs take that to the next level. 

Very nice. I shall set up a shrine shortly to ensure I keep the Elrog gods happy. I'd hate to anger them.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

turbofeet said:


> Wow your description is perfect. I loved the Envy for the meatyness and the air it added to the music. Every instrument was clear, bold and in its own little space but these Elrogs take that to the next level.
> 
> Very nice. I shall set up a shrine shortly to ensure I keep the Elrog gods happy. I'd hate to anger them.


The Elrog Gods await your sacrifice!


----------



## 1Audiophool

turbofeet said:


> keep the Elrog gods happy. I'd hate to anger them.


Shhh….🤫 Getting my first extended listen with the WE today


----------



## JTbbb

turbofeet said:


> Thanks - found him 👌


He does these for the 300’s too. But I’m finding there is enough ’meat’ on the bases , to not necessarily need them.


----------



## Somatic

1Audiophool said:


> Shhh….🤫 Getting my first extended listen with the WE today


Please let me know your thoughts. I ended up buying these as well.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

1Audiophool said:


> Shhh….🤫 Getting my first extended listen with the WE today


----------



## Newsee

turbofeet said:


> Thank you. Is he another Head-fi member?
> 
> I'll search him up if so.
> 
> ...


Empyrean and Elite. Nice.


----------



## turbofeet

I had quite a long listening session with the Elrogs last night. They are definitely more agile and meaty that the Full Music Tubes. More powerful bass and there is more air around the instruments. 

These are the very characteristics that drew me to the Envy and the Elrogs take this to the next level.

What they have also done which I really like is they have added warmth (colouration you might say) to soften the music without reducing the detail. There is probably more detail but they just create such a sweet soulful tone that makes music really, really pleasant to listen to. 

I also use the Bartok and this is a very transparent and detailed DAC and so it could sound a bit sterile (some might say boring) on occasion. The Bartok is a technical marvel and it's just doing it's job and showing you everything in your music ("only the music"). 

These tubes add just the right amount of warmth to remedy that entirely. 

I went through quite a few tracks I know well and literally none of them weren't improved.

I listened to some older poorer recordings of 80s Hip-Hip and R&B and without fail it all just sounded wonderful.

The Elite's absolutely love them. The Empyrean is nice but the Elite...wow!

So wonderfully balanced....I wonder if the "burn in" period is quite small or even non-existent with these now? I found them to soften out almost immediately. The manufacture date for mine was last week. If there is more to come after another 100 hrs then bring it on.

IMHO these Elrogs are a must buy for any Envy owner.

(This is with the PsVane Driver tubes)


----------



## JTbbb

turbofeet said:


> IMHO these Elrogs are a must buy for any Envy owner.
> 
> (This is with the PsVane Driver tubes)


Just wait till you roll those PsVanes out!


----------



## paradoxper

JTbbb said:


> Just wait till you roll those PsVanes out!


He still has a bunch of discovery yet.

Then again, I say go full-Elrog-all-the-way but I have inane tendencies.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

paradoxper said:


> He still has a bunch of discovery yet.
> 
> Then again, I say go full-Elrog-all-the-way but I have inane tendencies.


God forbid he discovers the glory of an Elrog/Melz combination...


----------



## paradoxper

ColSaulTigh said:


> God forbid he discovers the glory of an Elrog/Melz combination...


It is but inevitable.


----------



## JTbbb (Nov 30, 2022)

paradoxper said:


> It is but inevitable.


Well I sold my pair of ‘63 Melz 1578’s don’t know what all the fuss is about 😀. Mind you, I could of sold them for double money now!

Now I’ve upset the Melz Gods 😀.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

JTbbb said:


> Well I sold my pair of ‘63 Melz 1578’s don’t know what all the fuss is about 😀. Mind you, I could of sold them for double money now!
> 
> Now I’ve upset the Melz Gods 😀.


We burn heretics you know...


----------



## turbofeet

Haha yes I am curious what the Melz will bring as well. I will go into that with no specific expectations and see what they do.

I have some socket savers on order now from Deyan too.


----------



## paradoxper

JTbbb said:


> Well I sold my pair of ‘63 Melz 1578’s don’t know what all the fuss is about 😀. Mind you, I could of sold them for double money now!
> 
> Now I’ve upset the Melz Gods 😀.


This, too, is inevitable. Next stop TM300B.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

paradoxper said:


> This, too, is inevitable. Next stop TM300B.


When will these be available for us mere mortals to purchase?


----------



## Somatic

Hey guys, this might not be the most appropriate thread but I like the folks on here. Thought I can get some guidance. 

I currently own a zerosurge for surge protection. If my setup is a Dave + Farad3 and Envy. Would something else that protects my equipment and help with noise be ideal? Currently I perceive no noise and don’t want to decrease sound quality by getting a power conditioner etc. Not sure if they do more harm than good. 

On a side note, anyone replace stock power cable on the Envy yet? I ordered a new power cable. Same one @ThanatosVI uses


----------



## ThanatosVI

Somatic said:


> Hey guys, this might not be the most appropriate thread but I like the folks on here. Thought I can get some guidance.
> 
> I currently own a zerosurge for surge protection. If my setup is a Dave + Farad3 and Envy. Would something else that protects my equipment and help with noise be ideal? Currently I perceive no noise and don’t want to decrease sound quality by getting a power conditioner etc. Not sure if they do more harm than good.
> 
> On a side note, anyone replace stock power cable on the Envy yet? I ordered a new power cable. Same one @ThanatosVI uses


I use a power regenerator (PS Audio Stellar Power Plant 3) 
Surge protection, clean energy and basically no noise (unless it's added from one of your components)
Relatively affordable in the US, more expensive for us europeans - but imo worth it 

Maybe you can find a dealer for a home audition?


----------



## ThanatosVI

ColSaulTigh said:


> When will these be available for us mere mortals to purchase?


You can always leave the realm of Mortals by the power invested in you by your wallet...

Thomas Mayer offers also headamps, and as owner of one of these you get access to TM300B


----------



## JTbbb

Somatic said:


> Hey guys, this might not be the most appropriate thread but I like the folks on here. Thought I can get some guidance.
> 
> I currently own a zerosurge for surge protection. If my setup is a Dave + Farad3 and Envy. Would something else that protects my equipment and help with noise be ideal? Currently I perceive no noise and don’t want to decrease sound quality by getting a power conditioner etc. Not sure if they do more harm than good.
> 
> On a side note, anyone replace stock power cable on the Envy yet? I ordered a new power cable. Same one @ThanatosVI uses


If you perceive no noise and are happy with your sound quality…why change or add anything?


----------



## nwavesailor

JTbbb said:


> If you perceive no noise and are happy with your sound quality…why change or add anything?


Because we are, for the most part, neurotic whacko's!


----------



## ColSaulTigh

ThanatosVI said:


> You can always leave the realm of Mortals by the power invested in you by your wallet...
> 
> Thomas Mayer offers also headamps, and as owner of one of these you get access to TM300B


That's a bit out of my range - but I am curious as to how his amps sound....off to the interwebs to do some reading!


----------



## nwavesailor

The Elrog logos face forward too!


----------



## ColSaulTigh

nwavesailor said:


> The Elrog logos face forward too!


If I had to guess, that's probably by design...


----------



## paradoxper

Somatic said:


> Hey guys, this might not be the most appropriate thread but I like the folks on here. Thought I can get some guidance.
> 
> I currently own a zerosurge for surge protection. If my setup is a Dave + Farad3 and Envy. Would something else that protects my equipment and help with noise be ideal? Currently I perceive no noise and don’t want to decrease sound quality by getting a power conditioner etc. Not sure if they do more harm than good.
> 
> On a side note, anyone replace stock power cable on the Envy yet? I ordered a new power cable. Same one @ThanatosVI uses


If you are going all-out, grab the SILK.


----------



## ThanatosVI

paradoxper said:


> If you are going all-out, grab the SILK.


Are we talking Lampizator SILK?


----------



## paradoxper

ThanatosVI said:


> Are we talking Lampizator SILK?


Yes. The real answer is build out a dedicated line and build out fully balanced, fully differential.

Otherwise you spend upward on very simple and expensive filters.


----------



## Somatic

paradoxper said:


> Yes. The real answer is build out a dedicated line and build out fully balanced, fully differential.
> 
> Otherwise you spend upward on very simple and expensive filters.


Hmm. This SILK has 4 outlets? So can I still use the zerosurge non sacrificial surge protector and the SILK in between?


----------



## paradoxper

Somatic said:


> Hmm. This SILK has 4 outlets? So can I still use the zerosurge non sacrificial surge protector and the SILK in between?


You are likely to encounter some redundancy as Zero Surge provides filtering and additionally suffer some performance loss.
A dedicated line coupled with a balanced transformer > conditioner would provide middleground avoiding your daisy chain issue.


----------



## incredulousity (Nov 30, 2022)

Rolling Elrog Mo and Melz 1578. Definitely the _ne plus ultra _tube combination on Envy.

Until TM, that is.

On the power side, I love my Puritan PSM 156 and Hapa Audio power cords. And at least SR purple fuses in everything.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

incredulousity said:


> Rolling Elrog Mo and Melz 1578. Definitely the _ne plus ultra _tube combination on Envy.
> 
> Until TM, that is.
> 
> On the power side, I love my Puritan PSM 156 and Hapa Audio power cords. And at least SR purple fuses in everything.


----------



## BlurRhino

Hi folks new owner of Envy here. I have tried several headphones including Focal Utopia and Final D8k pro and there is loud humming when no music are played, is that something that is normal or should i be concerned?


----------



## zen87192

Sounds like a Ground issue. Is the humming coming out from your headphones or the Envy unit when you listen close?


----------



## BlurRhino

zen87192 said:


> Sounds like a Ground issue. Is the humming coming out from your headphones or the Envy unit when you listen close?


From my headphones. Gosh if it’s grounding issue that will be a pain to solve 😔


----------



## zen87192

BlurRhino said:


> From my headphones. Gosh if it’s grounding issue that will be a pain to solve 😔


Try touching the metal casing of each audio unit you have and see if it stops humming on one of them.


----------



## incredulousity

BlurRhino said:


> From my headphones. Gosh if it’s grounding issue that will be a pain to solve 😔


Describe your power chain.


----------



## JTbbb (Dec 5, 2022)

BlurRhino said:


> From my headphones. Gosh if it’s grounding issue that will be a pain to solve 😔


Silly question I suppose! Do you have impedance 1 set?

Edit: Lo setting.


----------



## JTbbb

Question: Does anyone have a slight hum from the Transformer? Or is it dead silent?


----------



## turbofeet

JTbbb said:


> Question: Does anyone have a slight hum from the Transformer? Or is it dead silent?


Mine seems silent. Hard to tell for sure with the kids watching Spongebob in the same room. All they do is shout lol


----------



## incredulousity

Mine is dead silent.


----------



## Somatic

turbofeet said:


> Mine seems silent. Hard to tell for sure with the kids watching Spongebob in the same room. All they do is shout lol


Can't go wrong with Spongbob


----------



## 1Audiophool

JTbbb said:


> Question: Does anyone have a slight hum from the Transformer? Or is it dead silent?


Mine is silent


----------



## nwavesailor (Dec 8, 2022)

Quiet here too.

Actually, if I put my ear ON the transformer cover I can detect a slight hum but it is faint.


----------



## ThanatosVI

BlurRhino said:


> Hi folks new owner of Envy here. I have tried several headphones including Focal Utopia and Final D8k pro and there is loud humming when no music are played, is that something that is normal or should i be concerned?


Remove the tubes, clean the Pins with a cloth and reinsert them.
Maybe they aren't perfectly seated


----------



## turbofeet

That's a great point. I had a light crackling and simply switched the tubes over to resolve that. Must have been a seating issue for me. Hopefully nice and simple.


----------



## BlurRhino

JTbbb said:


> Silly question I suppose! Do you have impedance 1 set?
> 
> Edit: Lo setting.


It was set to medium as low doesn't have sufficient power.



zen87192 said:


> Try touching the metal casing of each audio unit you have and see if it stops humming on one of them.


i will try



incredulousity said:


> Describe your power chain.


I have the envy connected to the niagara 1200 power conditioner together with my Innuos server and a Ansuz switch.


----------



## JTbbb

BlurRhino said:


> It was set to medium as low doesn't have sufficient power.
> 
> 
> i will try
> ...


I only asked because you will get some humming at mid impedance with Utopia’s connected. I asked the question to Lukasz, which he confirmed you will get. Don’t know about your other headphones though.


----------



## BlurRhino

JTbbb said:


> I only asked because you will get some humming at mid impedance with Utopia’s connected. I asked the question to Lukasz, which he confirmed you will get. Don’t know about your other headphones though.


ah i see, thanks for sharing this.


----------



## Somatic

BlurRhino said:


> ah i see, thanks for sharing this.


Do you get humming at low impedance? What makes you feel it is not getting enough power? Dynamics? Not loud enough?


----------



## nwavesailor

@Somatic, any update on the 'Naughty or Nice' list and if your Envy will arriving with Santa?


----------



## Somatic

nwavesailor said:


> @Somatic, any update on the 'Naughty or Nice' list and if your Envy will arriving with Santa?


LOL. I have been naughty so probabaly not? 

I hope so. Headphones.com mentioned that they will get a few Envys in Dec. No word yet on when they will recieve them. So if I can get an Envy by XMAS it will be a Christmas miracle and I will renew my faith with Santa. 

Elrog and Santa on my shrine. 

Recently moved and I had a duffle bag of all my tubes. Triple wrapped in bubble wrap and I had it nestled on my lap. Wasn't trying to get my babies destroyed haha.

Kept telling my wife that these tubes are "important" haha


----------



## nwavesailor

I'm sure she hears:

 "Blah, Blah, Blah...........tubes!"


----------



## Somatic

nwavesailor said:


> I'm sure she hears:
> 
> "Blah, Blah, Blah...........tubes!"


I was talking about my Soviet tubes from the 40s - 60s lol. These are relics! hahaha


----------



## nwavesailor

Yeah, But to her it's just 'Tubes, Tubes, Tubes!!!


----------



## Somatic

nwavesailor said:


> Yeah, But to her it's just 'Tubes, Tubes, Tubes!!!


Oh yeah she just heard "i wasted my money, less money" lol


----------



## BlurRhino

Somatic said:


> Do you get humming at low impedance? What makes you feel it is not getting enough power? Dynamics? Not loud enough?


Yup still will hear the humming at low impedance but at higher volume levels.


----------



## Somatic

BlurRhino said:


> Yup still will hear the humming at low impedance but at higher volume levels.


Hmm where did you buy it from. Maybe its faulty?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

BlurRhino said:


> Yup still will hear the humming at low impedance but at higher volume levels.


Just out of curiosity, with the system on and the "humming" audible, if you lightly tap each of the tubes, does the humming change at all?

Have you disconnected the amp to another room and see if you still get the humming while plugged into (preferably the farthest) other side of the house?

It's possible you have a defective unit - but let's eliminate the options first.


----------



## arthurito

My Envy also hums if I put my ear in the transformers (big black box on top), but I can’t hear the hum on high impedance in Susvara. On low/mid with  Stellia if there’s absolute silence, maybe just the tiniest bit, definitely not disturbing. Lukasz said it’s something with my mains, as they tested it extensively and couldn’t hear any hum. I use an Isotek Sigmas conditioner, tried other outlets directly, same. I still need to try in another house, but I can’t be bothered


----------



## BlurRhino

Somatic said:


> Hmm where did you buy it from. Maybe its faulty?


From the local dealer, will reach out to them if i cannot find the problem



ColSaulTigh said:


> Just out of curiosity, with the system on and the "humming" audible, if you lightly tap each of the tubes, does the humming change at all?
> 
> Have you disconnected the amp to another room and see if you still get the humming while plugged into (preferably the farthest) other side of the house?
> 
> It's possible you have a defective unit - but let's eliminate the options first.


no change in the humming and the tubes burnt. haha. Yup going by elimination now to try to see what can be the problems



arthurito said:


> My Envy also hums if I put my ear in the transformers (big black box on top), but I can’t hear the hum on high impedance in Susvara. On low/mid with  Stellia if there’s absolute silence, maybe just the tiniest bit, definitely not disturbing. Lukasz said it’s something with my mains, as they tested it extensively and couldn’t hear any hum. I use an Isotek Sigmas conditioner, tried other outlets directly, same. I still need to try in another house, but I can’t be bothered


i can't hear any humming near the transformers. Strictly from my headphones only when no music is playing.


----------



## JTbbb

arthurito said:


> My Envy also hums if I put my ear in the transformers (big black box on top), but I can’t hear the hum on high impedance in Susvara. On low/mid with  Stellia if there’s absolute silence, maybe just the tiniest bit, definitely not disturbing. Lukasz said it’s something with my mains, as they tested it extensively and couldn’t hear any hum. I use an Isotek Sigmas conditioner, tried other outlets directly, same. I still need to try in another house, but I can’t be bothered


I guess if you put your ear against the Transformer, you will hear a hum. I have had reply’s from 5 Envy owners now saying their Transformers are dead silent. I can hear mine at 2 metres! Admittedly this is in my totally silent listening room. It probably isn’t too bad, but I’m really tuned into it now. It’s been back to Feliks Audio for repair. I’ve had it back a week now with no discernible change in the hum. I’ve informed my retailer.

Other than the Transformer hum, it’s totally brilliant.


----------



## paradoxper

JTbbb said:


> I guess if you put your ear against the Transformer, you will hear a hum. I have had reply’s from 5 Envy owners now saying their Transformers are dead silent. I can hear mine at 2 metres! Admittedly this is in my totally silent listening room. It probably isn’t too bad, but I’m really tuned into it now. It’s been back to Feliks Audio for repair. I’ve had it back a week now with no discernible change in the hum. I’ve informed my retailer.
> 
> Other than the Transformer hum, it’s totally brilliant.


What did Feliks tell you upon their inspection and return with no change?

Not that this is rare at all, EC amps are a good example of it's a thing, deal with it, but that doesn't make the concession right.


----------



## Somatic

JTbbb said:


> I guess if you put your ear against the Transformer, you will hear a hum. I have had reply’s from 5 Envy owners now saying their Transformers are dead silent. I can hear mine at 2 metres! Admittedly this is in my totally silent listening room. It probably isn’t too bad, but I’m really tuned into it now. It’s been back to Feliks Audio for repair. I’ve had it back a week now with no discernible change in the hum. I’ve informed my retailer.
> 
> Other than the Transformer hum, it’s totally brilliant.


Are you going to send it back? That sucks.

Edit: Are most Envy owners not having issues? I have seen a few issues listed lately. Hope I don't win that lottery. :/


----------



## JTbbb

paradoxper said:


> What did Feliks tell you upon their inspection and return with no change?
> 
> Not that this is rare at all, EC amps are a good example of it's a thing, deal with it, but that doesn't make the concession right.


Just that the Transformer hum had been fixed. Maybe I will just have to deal with it, just sucks a little now that six owners say theirs are dead silent.
Haven’t had a reply from my retailer yet. I only sent my findings today, I wanted to give a good week of use first.


----------



## nwavesailor

BlurRhino said:


> Hi folks new owner of Envy here. I have tried several headphones including Focal Utopia and Final D8k pro and there is loud humming when no music are played, is that something that is normal or should i be concerned?


I don't think anyone mentioned trying this, another set of tubes? It may be a bad one or pair. I know that's one of the first things I'd do if I had hum through my hp


----------



## Somatic

Christmas is coming. My toys are arriving. Envy on Saturday. New desk next week (will need to postpone Envy setup until then). Humidor, lighter etc. LOL


----------



## nwavesailor

WHAT????

Postpone setting up the amp???

You have  been waiting for and buying the best of the best tubes available for the arrival of the   Envy and a desk will keep you from setting it up somewhere?

Your killing me smalls!!!!


----------



## Somatic

nwavesailor said:


> WHAT????
> 
> Postpone setting up the amp???
> 
> ...


Haha. We just moved. I gave my wife my old desk. I have a tiny desk right now. Won't be able to fit my gear. Unless I want to setup on the ground etc. Just need to wait a few more days. I've been without my headfi system for a few weeks now. Over the withdrawals but can't wait to set it all up again.


----------



## nwavesailor

OK.........I have near very little patience. 
I am in awe of HeadFi members that have the discipline to 'use the stock tubes' for days or weeks before doing any rolling. 

You have some crazy good tubes (Elrog, 1578, 6F8G and no doubt others) and will be one happy guy when you do get the Envy setup.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

JTbbb said:


> Just that the Transformer hum had been fixed. Maybe I will just have to deal with it, just sucks a little now that six owners say theirs are dead silent.
> Haven’t had a reply from my retailer yet. I only sent my findings today, I wanted to give a good week of use first.


Personally, I wouldn't settle for a transformer hum in an $8,000 amplifier.

But I also have a bone to pick with Felikz, so....


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Somatic said:


> Christmas is coming. My toys are arriving. Envy on Saturday. New desk next week (will need to postpone Envy setup until then). Humidor, lighter etc. LOL


Blasphemy!  The Elrog gods will NOT be pleased!


----------



## Somatic (Dec 8, 2022)

nwavesailor said:


> OK.........I have near very little patience.
> I am in awe of HeadFi members that have the discipline to 'use the stock tubes' for days or weeks before doing any rolling.
> 
> You have some crazy good tubes (Elrog, 1578, 6F8G and no doubt others) and will be one happy guy when you do get the Envy setup.


Yeah I think a lot of us here don't have patience haha. I'm pretty impatient as well but shelfing my hifi setup for a few weeks is making it easier to wait a few days.

The first week was hard. I just wanted to hear my setup so much. Been bridging the gap with my humble KEF Eggs and KC62 for now.

I need some highend goodness flowing through my veins. Can't wait!

Edit: @ThanatosVI My NRG "The 5" cable is on its way for the Envy as well. Using three ".1" for the Farad power supplies on the DAVE.

Edit: Pretty soon will send you all some decked out pics. Tube/Gear porn incoming!


----------



## nwavesailor

My last batch (for NOW!) of 6J5G for the Envy arrive later today, STC Brimar.


----------



## turbofeet

ColSaulTigh said:


> Personally, I wouldn't settle for a transformer hum in an $8,000 amplifier.
> 
> But I also have a bone to pick with Felikz, so....


What he said... "The hand of Elrog" sees the truth...

@JTbbb I would 100% get it replaced or repaired. I wouldn't accept that and you shouldn't either. Mine makes 0 noise. Nada.

I know it must be tempting to live with it since you can't hear it when listening to music. I'm sure you're thinking is "yeah but how long to wait...again..." but don't.

You're doing the right thing; contact the retailer sir. 

I suspect they rushed a few out because of demand but of course damage in transit is also possible...


----------



## nwavesailor

Yeah, we aren't talking about a inexpensive Made in China tube amp and it should be quiet.. 

I just listened to my Envy again and can barely hear a faint hum while placing my ear directly on the back side of the transformer cover.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Somatic said:


> Yeah I think a lot of us here don't have patience haha. I'm pretty impatient as well but shelfing my hifi setup for a few weeks is making it easier to wait a few days.
> 
> The first week was hard. I just wanted to hear my setup so much. Been bridging the gap with my humble KEF Eggs and KC62 for now.
> 
> ...


Looking forward to the pictures.

I posted my cabling mess in the high end cables thread 
Actually had to move the rack a little forward for all the cables to have enough space behind it. I think it's ok for now.
I replaced one 3m 'The 5' with a way shorter .1 on the DAC. Getting a 3m cable of that thickness behind one rack is hard


----------



## Somatic

@ThanatosVI Yea, they are very thick. Almost got .1 vs the 5 but wanted the best for the Envy. We shall see. Hehe


----------



## JTbbb

turbofeet said:


> What he said... "The hand of Elrog" sees the truth...
> 
> @JTbbb I would 100% get it replaced or repaired. I wouldn't accept that and you shouldn't either. Mine makes 0 noise. Nada.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the support guys, I don’t intend to accept this. The retailer has come back saying he has informed Feliks Audio and is awaiting their reply. Also asked if I had changed tubes in case of one causing the Trafo hum. Which of course I had. I don’t want to have to send it back again!


----------



## Somatic (Dec 9, 2022)

JTbbb said:


> Thanks for the support guys, I don’t intend to accept this. The retailer has come back saying he has informed Feliks Audio and is awaiting their reply. Also asked if I had changed tubes in case of one causing the Trafo hum. Which of course I had. I don’t want to have to send it back again!


That's a bummer. I had similar situation with KEF KC62 sub. It has a high pitched electronic whine. KEF support was great though. First time, they took it in, replaced unit and same issue. Second time, they had a few young folks listening for the sound. Replaced the board. Its 2x quieter but I can still hear it from 6 feet away. I have good hearing for now so I can hear things the average person can't.

Any electronic based noise is a pet peeve of mine. I try to avoid it as much as possible.

Edit: Skip on the KC62. I think all units have that high electronic whine. Just at varying degrees. Sub for casual normies LOL


----------



## turbofeet

JTbbb said:


> Thanks for the support guys, I don’t intend to accept this. The retailer has come back saying he has informed Feliks Audio and is awaiting their reply. Also asked if I had changed tubes in case of one causing the Trafo hum. Which of course I had. I don’t want to have to send it back again!


"Changed the tubes?? Noooo why would I do that? Sounds great as it is....just perfect except for the hum. Do people change them then? How interesting..."


----------



## Somatic

ThanatosVI said:


> Looking forward to the pictures.
> 
> I posted my cabling mess in the high end cables thread
> Actually had to move the rack a little forward for all the cables to have enough space behind it. I think it's ok for now.
> I replaced one 3m 'The 5' with a way shorter .1 on the DAC. Getting a 3m cable of that thickness behind one rack is hard


I can imagine. I have 3 “.1” cables 1.5m. They are very heavy and thick. Just got the 5 in the mail. Not much thicker than the other ones. 

Wondering if there is a way to manage the cables better?


----------



## Somatic

Anyone using high end power cords on the Envy yet? Anyone squeeze more performance out of it?


----------



## nwavesailor

You could be right and perhaps a few % more could be gained with a $$$ PC. I don't have Golden Ears and never personally  heard an improvement with an upgraded PC. 

These are fighting words on many of these forums but I'd love to do a double blind test with power cords and see how much they really matter or how much is purely confirmation bias. 

YMMV and this is simply my opinion with my so-so ears. If forum members can hear it, GREAT! I'll spend my $$$ on more tubes!!!!


----------



## Somatic

nwavesailor said:


> You could be right and perhaps a few % more could be gained with a $$$ PC. I don't have Golden Ears and never personally  heard an improvement with an upgraded PC.
> 
> These are fighting words on many of these forums but I'd love to do a double blind test with power cords and see how much they really matter or how much is purely confirmation bias.
> 
> YMMV and this is simply my opinion with my so-so ears. If forum members can hear it, GREAT! I'll spend my $$$ on more tubes!!!!


Yup I hear you. That’s why I went with NRG cables. They don’t break the bank and are made of good materials. He focuses on gauge and shielding. So not sure it makes a difference but psychologically it helps Me feel I didn’t leave anything on the table.


----------



## nwavesailor

You are correct, Gauge and shielding are REAL and do matter. I have a hard time with PC costing many hundreds or thousands but that's me. 

Weird............... I'm considering the Elrog MO and they cost............... THOUSANDS!


----------



## Somatic

nwavesailor said:


> You are correct, Gauge and shielding are REAL and do matter. I have a hard time with PC costing many hundreds or thousands but that's me.
> 
> Weird............... I'm considering the Elrog MO and they cost............... THOUSANDS!


Go for it. Hehe


----------



## ColSaulTigh

nwavesailor said:


> You are correct, Gauge and shielding are REAL and do matter. I have a hard time with PC costing many hundreds or thousands but that's me.
> 
> Weird............... I'm considering the Elrog MO and they cost............... THOUSANDS!


Considering?

[Thunder cracks and the skys open]

OBEY!!!


----------



## nwavesailor

I have checked with Chris at 'Elrog of the Frozen North'  
They may have some MO coming in time to arrive in Santa's sleigh since I was obviously on St Nick's Nice list!


----------



## ColSaulTigh

I sense the clouds separating a beam of moonlight shining brightly....on your wallet.


----------



## nwavesailor

Damn, you have one fantastic and crazy clear crystal ball! 
I could always use a bit more detail and clarity as well as deeper bass. 
I think that costs a little over $2K MO!!!


----------



## ColSaulTigh

nwavesailor said:


> Damn, you have one fantastic and crazy clear crystal ball!
> I could always use a bit more detail and clarity as well as deeper bass.
> I think that costs a little over $2K MO!!!


I've seen what tubes you buy in other threads - this shouldn't come as a surprise!


----------



## incredulousity

Yes. And @ColSaulTigh and I are pining for the Elrog TM that are pure unobtanium.


----------



## nwavesailor

Already have TM................where have you guys been?
I'm looking for the MO to complete the Elrog 300B trifecta


----------



## ColSaulTigh

nwavesailor said:


> Already have TM................where have you guys been?
> I'm looking for the MO to complete the Elrog 300B trifecta


You have a TM amp?  If not, where did you get such mana from Heaven?!?!


----------



## Somatic

The bird has landed. Seemed it went through some bumpy weather but the insides are super protected so hopefully it’s fine.


----------



## zen87192

Whoa! That's been through the wars... hope all is OK for you.... what's with the small window cut out of the cardboard? Inspection hole?


----------



## turbofeet

Lucky it's double boxed. It is well packaged but good luck.


----------



## Somatic

zen87192 said:


> Whoa! That's been through the wars... hope all is OK for you.... what's with the small window cut out of the cardboard? Inspection hole?


Yeah I was wondering about that as well. I guess to inspect it. Sounds about right. 

We shall see. Fingers crossed.


----------



## zen87192

Keep us posted ASAP as to your unboxing, findings and set up please.
Mine is due to be delivered to the retailer sometime late next week so I'm super interested to hear your findings from the beginning.


----------



## nwavesailor

ColSaulTigh said:


> You have a TM amp?  If not, where did you get such mana from Heaven?!?!


Apparently I was just dreaming. No TM here


----------



## ColSaulTigh

nwavesailor said:


> Apparently I was just dreaming. No TM here


Don't tease me!  You got me all excited.  I was getting the sacrificial alter set up and everything!


----------



## Somatic

zen87192 said:


> Keep us posted ASAP as to your unboxing, findings and set up please.
> Mine is due to be delivered to the retailer sometime late next week so I'm super interested to hear your findings from the beginning.


Looks like the second box inside got dented as well but that foam is amazing. Hoping it reinforced it well.

I don't have my Dave, Farad3 etc setup. I'm using my wifes old desk at the moment and it has zero space. Unless I set everything up in the ground etc its not going to happen until next week when my desk comes in.

I got this one. Already have it but wasn't wide enough. Went with the 72w and 30d version, walnut. Envy is Walnut as well. Hoping they look good together.

https://www.roomandboard.com/catalo...&utm_medium=Email&utm_source=ET&utm_campaign=


----------



## nwavesailor

Nice desk but frankly it's kinda boring compared to a walnut Envy with Elrogs and a pair of any of your top shelf tubes. 

How hard could setting up the Dave and Envy be even with your aftermarket power supplies?
This is what we want to see and YOU need to hear!


----------



## incredulousity (Dec 10, 2022)

This works. But please use external power (not shown) for heater current, to protect your amp, as the full spec for the 6SN7 sockets has not been published.

Dual triode-strapped KT88 to 6SN7. Special adapters by @Deyan.


----------



## nwavesailor (Dec 10, 2022)

incredulousity said:


> I love to hate you!


Remember this post? Right back at you!!!!!!

I was just asking my self why I was keeping 3 pairs of GEC KT 88 and  TT21? Now I know what to do with them!
 Does @Deyan include the external heater supply with the adapters?

These makes my dual 6J5G adapters look pretty whimpy.....................

Does it EVER end????????????????????

We are all certifiably insane!

BTW, how do the KT-88_ sound _compared to your 1578's / Elrog MO Combo?


----------



## incredulousity

How to actually do it safely.


----------



## nwavesailor

Thanks!
 Personally with my limited space I'm hesitant to add another box and heater wires unless it was the best sound you have ever heard (So Far) with your Envy.

I can hear my mom saying "If @incredulousity jumped off a bridge, would you jump too?"


----------



## incredulousity

It can get worse. These take 12V heater power. I have different box for this. 

I bought an Hypsos and am having some wire adapters made for it, to replace the ugly but functional boxes from @Deyan. It will be much smaller and prettier on my rack.


----------



## incredulousity

The ГУ-50 tubes are insanely detailed and fast and extended both in bass and treble on Euforia. I expect they will pair very nicely with Envy. The powered adapters are ГУ-50 to KTxx. See how we do this cleverly?


----------



## Somatic

incredulousity said:


> It can get worse. These take 12V heater power. I have different box for this.
> 
> I bought an Hypsos and am having some wire adapters made for it, to replace the ugly but functional boxes from @Deyan. It will be much smaller and prettier on my rack.


Getting the Hypsos is a great idea. Great device. So versatile.


----------



## nwavesailor (Dec 10, 2022)

I have my limits and the external heater PS is not something I'm too excited about for space and the additional heater wires across the amp.
I'll stay with the Elrogs (likley add the MO) and will continue using dual adapters that do not need additional heater current.

Having said that I gotta say that dual KT-88's do look BAD A** !


----------



## incredulousity (Dec 10, 2022)

Ok. Now with a couple hours of warm up on the tubes…

The mid and treble weakness is gone. 

Sounds and slams quite a lot like Bliss, but with toooobiness. I’ll run with these for a few days.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

incredulousity said:


> Ok. Now with a couple hours of warm up on the tubes…
> 
> The mid and treble weakness is gone.
> 
> Sounds and slams quite a lot like Bliss, but with toooobiness. I’ll run with these for a few days.


So, you're saying I need to do some more experimenting?!?!

Ugh, off to eBay.....


----------



## incredulousity (Dec 10, 2022)

ColSaulTigh said:


> So, you're saying I need to do some more experimenting?!?!
> 
> Ugh, off to eBay.....


And probably @Deyan too.

BTW. I’m just using a matched quad of Gold Lion KT88s. I’m sure some have fancier things they prefer.


----------



## nwavesailor

incredulousity said:


> And probably @Deyan too.
> 
> BTW. I’m just using a matched quad of Gold Lion KT88s. I’m sure some have fancier things they prefer.


Like this nice quad of GEC KT88!


----------



## ColSaulTigh

nwavesailor said:


> Like this nice quad of GEC KT88!


This is revenge for all the Elrogs I made people buy, isn't it?


----------



## incredulousity (Dec 10, 2022)

Lol.

Karma’s a bitch!

Also, showing us the righteous path of Elrog is not making anyone do anything.


----------



## JTbbb

I don’t know. Envy has hardly been out in the market, and look what people get up too 😀.


----------



## ThanatosVI

JTbbb said:


> I don’t know. Envy has hardly been out in the market, and look what people get up too 😀.


Well many Envy owners used to be Feliks Audio owners in the past, and you can roll some crazy crap on the Elise and Euforia models


----------



## alekc

ThanatosVI said:


> Well many Envy owners used to be Feliks Audio owners in the past, and you can roll some crazy crap on the Elise and Euforia models


@ThanatosVI  indeed and this makes me even more sad that I have not invested into Euforia AE when I had a chance... it has very nice synergy with both Chord Hugo TT2 and Rocka WaveLight IMHO. Obviously Envy plays on another level but for more intimate soundstage giving more romantic feeling Eufora AE is brilliant. I don't get new Evo design and dislike its looks, hope it sounds at least as good as original Auforias did.


----------



## ThanatosVI

alekc said:


> @ThanatosVI  indeed and this makes me even more sad that I have not invested into Euforia AE when I had a chance... it has very nice synergy with both Chord Hugo TT2 and Rocka WaveLight IMHO. Obviously Envy plays on another level but for more intimate soundstage giving more romantic feeling Eufora AE is brilliant. I don't get new Evo design and dislike its looks, hope it sounds at least as good as original Auforias did.


Well you still csn get some used AEs, like this one
https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/feliks-audio-euforia-ae-extra-lamps.37371/

Personally I love the Evo Design


----------



## 1Audiophool

incredulousity said:


> This works. But please use external power (not shown) for heater current, to protect your amp, as the full spec for the 6SN7 sockets has not been published.
> 
> Dual triode-strapped KT88 to 6SN7. Special adapters by @Deyan.


This is some next-next level 💩

Not going there…yet anyway. Did get this in but still waiting on the 


tubes (been tied in in RoyalMail since the 28th)…


----------



## incredulousity

I’ll have those in a few weeks too.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

1Audiophool said:


> This is some next-next level 💩
> 
> Not going there…yet anyway. Did get this in but still waiting on the tubes (been tied in in RoyalMail since the 28th)…






I like the new style with the rounded end - looks a bit cleaner.


----------



## nwavesailor

Yup, the new style is a better look.
Mrs. X had her original style 'stolen' by another seller so she changed her design.


----------



## alekc

ThanatosVI said:


> Well you still csn get some used AEs, like this one
> https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/feliks-audio-euforia-ae-extra-lamps.37371/
> 
> Personally I love the Evo Design


@ThanatosVI I am yet to audition Evo eventually, I hope it sounds the same as Euforia AE since it is theoretically the same amp just with different case and cheaper parts. Normally my practice in such cases shows that there are at least minimal differences in SQ. Not saying it will sound worts than predecessor, just saying I haven't heard it yet. 

As for AE I'm done with shopping audio gear for some time  but thanks for pointing this classified ad - maybe somebody else will use, I think this is great amp with decent footprint. Maybe one day I will get it under different circumstances, but not today...


----------



## Somatic

Can putting a faulty/broken tube into the Envy and turning it on short it (Damage)? Also, when switching tubes do I turn off the unit from the front button and then turn it fully off with the switch when tube rolling? Thanks.


----------



## JTbbb

Somatic said:


> Can putting a faulty/broken tube into the Envy and turning it on short it (Damage)? Also, when switching tubes do I turn off the unit from the front button and then turn it fully off with the switch when tube rolling? Thanks.


I think there is a possibility of damaging the amp with a faulty tube, but guess it would have to have a dead short, others with more knowledge will certainly chip in. With regards to tube rolling I turn off at the front, then the main switch at the rear, and let it cool for 15-20 mins. I’ve learnt this by experience! Because the chances of touching the front switch while a tube is half way out are high, especially drivers.


----------



## incredulousity

JTbbb said:


> I think there is a possibility of damaging the amp with a faulty tube, but guess it would have to have a dead short, others with more knowledge will certainly chip in. With regards to tube rolling I turn off at the front, then the main switch at the rear, and let it cool for 15-20 mins. I’ve learnt this by experience! Because the chances of touching the front switch while a tube is half way out are high, especially drivers.


On Envy, the front "soft switch" is a hair trigger. I recommend always turning the amp off at the back switch, if you are doing anything with/near the tubes.


----------



## TaronL

For those waiting on Envy stock, we just got a shipment of Oak Standard and Oak Performance in stock and ready to ship with free overnight shipping.

The Walnut Standard and Walnut Performance are currently on backorder. Hopefully will have more updates around an ETA towards the end of the month.


----------



## Somatic

TaronL said:


> For those waiting on Envy stock, we just got a shipment of Oak Standard and Oak Performance in stock and ready to ship with free overnight shipping.
> 
> The Walnut Standard and Walnut Performance are currently on backorder. Hopefully will have more updates around an ETA towards the end of the month.


That Walnut is HOT FIRE!!! hehe


----------



## Somatic

Got my desk. Not sure if it’s walnut or not. My other desk is darker but may be variance. On a plus note I got a deep walnut for the amp which I’m happy with. 

Work in progress. Trying to get some work done and set everything up. Will be a long day.


----------



## zen87192

Looks great! Excited for you! Mine is at my Audio retailer now ready for collection. I'll be collecting it myself as I don't trust Couriers at the moment with this huge heavy box.


----------



## nwavesailor

When is the Envy gonna actually be producing sound???  
Nice to see your grey kitty helping route your cables!


----------



## turbofeet

Siamese? The most vocal of felines 🐈


----------



## Somatic

turbofeet said:


> Siamese? The most vocal of felines 🐈


Yes. Lynx Point.


----------



## turbofeet

Somatic said:


> Yes. Lynx Point.


Awesome!


----------



## Somatic (Dec 15, 2022)

Currently running stock tubes. For Susvara I am on Hi Gain and Atriums Low Gain. Sounds great.

I did notice a potential issue. With Susvara, I get a High pitched whine on volume pot 12 o clock – 4 o clock. Not super loud but there when music is off. Silent room. At 5 o clock (max) or 11 o clock and below the sound goes away. Or is inaudible. I think its still there but very very very quiet.

With Atriums, the high pitched whine is apparent on low gain on the same 12 – 4 range.

Not sure if normal. Tubes are burning in? I get intermittent static at times.

Sounds good. But working out the kinks. Thoughts?

Edit: Sounds very good. Very detailed. Amazing reverb. I didn't know my headphones could sound this good. Just working out some kinks. Will try Elrog etc later today or tomorrow.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Somatic said:


> Currently running stock tubes. For Susvara I am on Hi Gain and Atriums Low Gain. Sounds great.
> 
> I did notice a potential issue. With Susvara, I get a High pitched whine on volume pot 12 o clock – 4 o clock. Not super loud but there when music is off. Silent room. At 5 o clock (max) or 11 o clock and below the sound goes away. Or is inaudible. I think its still there but very very very quiet.
> 
> ...


That noise is the sound of the Elrog gods preparing to smite you for not releasing them from their tomb...


----------



## Somatic

ColSaulTigh said:


> That noise is the sound of the Elrog gods preparing to smite you for not releasing them from their tomb...


Man, these Elrogs are hyped. Let me turn off the amp and let it cool down to prepare for the Big Daddy! LOL


----------



## Somatic

How long do I let these tubes cool down before unplugging them? Also, do I just turn the unit off from the front. Wait a few seconds and then manually turn it off from rear switch or should I let it cool down first. Thanks.


----------



## turbofeet

Give them at least 15-20mins to cool down and make sure you flip the rocker power switch at the back.

I have the Envy in low gain for the Meze Elites with the volume at 12 o clock.

I can turn the dial all the way to 11 (max) and hear nothing. At medium gain there is a slight hiss and background crackle at 12 o clock or higher.

High gain is no different from Medium in terms of background noise.

As you say you can't hear it with music playing and medium or high gain but these settings are too high for the Elites anyway.

I can up the voltage on the Bartok line out slightly which does reduce the need to have the Envy knob at 12 o clock if need be as well.


----------



## Somatic

Elrog's warming up. Nice physical sounds they make in the warming up process.


----------



## turbofeet (Dec 15, 2022)

Nice! They warm up (stop making the warm up clicks and such) quicker than the Full Music tubes in my experience (10 mins) and sounded great out of the box.

Look forward to your thoughts. 

You may enjoy some of these tracks which all sound marvellous imho:

Listen to the playlist Qobuz Audiophile by turbofeet on Qobuz https://open.qobuz.com/playlist/8689907


----------



## Somatic

Soviets in the house! Oh my ...

I am not sure what to say. Now I see why you guys were antsy for me to hook this up. Definitely the Melz and Elrogs pushed it up a notch.

From memory, the Envy is an entire league ahead of the Ferrum stack. With Elrog/Melz you get extremely extended sub bass, nothing sounds sibilant, no digital glare. Soundstage is out of the head at times. Very detailed. Micro details galore. Voices sound holographic. Very nice guys. 

Susvara's sound like a different beast. As a former basshead, these have all the bass one needs from the Susvara.

Also, damn this Envy is powerful. Both Susvara in High Gain and Atriums in Low gain. I don't see how you can go past 9 o clock ... so much headroom to spare.


----------



## turbofeet

Wow those Melz look perfect. Our Ukrainian ebay friend? If so can't wait for mine to arrive.


----------



## incredulousity

turbofeet said:


> Wow those Melz look perfect. Our Ukrainian ebay friend? If so can't wait for mine to arrive.


Awaiting mine too. They will be backup pair.


----------



## Somatic

turbofeet said:


> Wow those Melz look perfect. Our Ukrainian ebay friend? If so can't wait for mine to arrive.


Not yet. Those are still in transit. These were from FLTWS. Light use, I believe they were Paladin79 previously. They look great. I have 3 pairs of Melz total.

I got a bunch of tubes to roll. Not trying to switch this configuration for a while. Got to get used to it. Dead silent.
​


----------



## turbofeet

Enjoy it


----------



## zen87192

I‘m collecting my Envy shortly and I want to try out these Melz 1578 tubes you are all on about. May I ask someone to recommend any on the ‘famous bidding site’ that look genuine? I have no idea what to look for as they all look the same to me 😳


----------



## turbofeet

Check out page 91 of this thread for Melz Information sir 👌


----------



## zen87192

turbofeet said:


> Check out page 91 of this thread for Melz Information sir 👌


Will do... thanks


----------



## zen87192

turbofeet said:


> Check out page 91 of this thread for Melz Information sir 👌


Many thanks for that pointer turbofeet! Had a look and most are of the 'slot hole' variety. The 'holed' ones that are available and not paired and do not have test results attached which sort of rings alarm bells for me.


----------



## turbofeet

Still waiting for these to get to the UK  ut with the Royal Mail strikes may not even be till next year:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/22527397...AKhRTzZSRi&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Some great examples there but they do see more progressively hard to find.


----------



## zen87192

@Somatic .... has the whining sound gone now that you have replaced the Tubes for Elrogs and Melz?


----------



## Somatic

zen87192 said:


> @Somatic .... has the whining sound gone now that you have replaced the Tubes for Elrogs and Melz?


No. It’s not tube dependent. Pretty sure it’s the amp itself. I’m not in a huge hurry as the volume range where it’s audible is too high for me anyways. But I did ping Lukasz about it. Eventually I’d like to get it fixed. But for now it’s not affecting me. 

Hope your is flawless. Other than that the transformer is quite. Can only hear transformer hum if I’m 3 inches from it. Whole unit is pretty cool to the touch. Transformer is warm and tubes are of course hot. 

It’s solid. Great unit. 

That reminds me. I need to switch fuses tonight.


----------



## zen87192

Yeah... don't forget the Fuse! Mine's almost 'fused' to the table top waiting for my Envy to arrive! 😂


----------



## Somatic

What amazes me is the unlimited decay, the low end extension and how much micro details it can extract from the DAC. Mmmmm ...


----------



## ColSaulTigh (Dec 15, 2022)

For anyone who might want to re-flow their Melz tubes pins (should you get a noisy tube or more...), I made a video!


----------



## Somatic

ColSaulTigh said:


> For anyone who might want to re-flow their Melz tubes (should you get a noise tube or more...), I made a video!



In times of great struggle a hero arises. Thank you!


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Somatic said:


> In times of great struggle a hero arises. Thank you!


----------



## nwavesailor

I think @Somatic may like it!🤪


----------



## ColSaulTigh

nwavesailor said:


> I think @Somatic may like it!🤪


Just wait until we turn him on to 6J5GT's....


----------



## Somatic

ColSaulTigh said:


> Just wait until we turn him on to 6J5GT's....


Would have been good to know about these before I bought the TUNG-SOL VT99 6f8g Round Plates  lol


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Somatic said:


> Would have been good to know about these before I bought the TUNG-SOL VT99 6f8g Round Plates  lol


Oh, you're just getting started!


----------



## zen87192

ColSaulTigh said:


> Just wait until we turn him on to 6J5GT's....


Are they drop in replacements?


----------



## nwavesailor

You got the TS 6F8G and they are up there with the best. I wound not regret snagging that pair at as all.


----------



## nwavesailor

zen87192 said:


> Are they drop in replacements?


No, they are basically 1/2 of a 6SN7 so you need 2 per channel and adapters.


----------



## Somatic

nwavesailor said:


> No, they are basically 1/2 of a 6SN7 so you need 2 per channel and adapters.


Deyan? Can you send the link again? I guess I can get some. Hehe. 

Any seller you can recommend? Or the favorite one you have? Thanks.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

zen87192 said:


> Are they drop in replacements?


No, they require an adapter.  It's 2 6J5's = 1 6SN7.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/195173918217?hash=item2d7145a609:g:bC4AAOSwhORiuqJW


----------



## zen87192

nwavesailor said:


> You got the TS 6F8G and they are up there with the best. I wound not regret snagging that pair at as all.


I'm looking forward to installing mine as well... makes up for the loss on the Melz. 😔


----------



## ColSaulTigh

zen87192 said:


> I'm looking forward to installing mine as well... makes up for the loss on the Melz. 😔


Loss on the Melz?  What happened?


----------



## zen87192

ColSaulTigh said:


> Loss on the Melz?  What happened?


I missed out on a lot of availability in a short span of time and am still looking for a matched pair (or near enough matched)


----------



## ColSaulTigh

zen87192 said:


> I missed out on a lot of availability in a short span of time and am still looking for a matched pair (or near enough matched)


Oh.  I'll keep my eyes open.  My friend in the Ukraine is currently, uh, preoccupied.


----------



## incredulousity

Somatic said:


> Would have been good to know about these before I bought the TUNG-SOL VT99 6f8g Round Plates  lol


No. You need those too.


----------



## Somatic (Dec 15, 2022)

there are 2 fuses? Second one is spare, correct? The the whole housing come out completely? Seems something is stopping me from pulling it all out.

Edit: Replaced only one of them


----------



## Somatic

Good thing I replaced the fuse. This is what I found. Seemed like the fuse got damaged in shipping. Not sure where the other end is. Ugh lol


----------



## Somatic

ColSaulTigh said:


> No, they require an adapter.  It's 2 6J5's = 1 6SN7.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/195173918217?hash=item2d7145a609:g:bC4AAOSwhORiuqJW


She is on vacay


----------



## Somatic (Dec 16, 2022)

Listening to the WE300Bs now with the Melz 1578. They sound good but extension on both ends are less compared to Elrogs. Elrogs seems more detailed and go unbelievably deep. These don't sound overally warm as I thought they would be. The lack of extension on both ends is apparent.

I bow down to the Elrog GODs. Have mercy on my doubting nature. My faith is solid now.

Edit: Eventually sell the WE300b and buy some MOs?! (I put them on classifieds.)
Edit: WE300Bs lack of low end extension. Lack of note weight. More airy presentation is not what I was imagining. I have a strong feeling I would not like the Takatsuki's. But wont know until I try them.


----------



## nwavesailor (Dec 16, 2022)

As soon as I ordered my Envy I was convinced I would buy the WE. Made in  USA and with a 5 year warranty.
After reading many posts, particularly by the resident Elrog tube pushers,  @paradoxper and @ColSaulTigh I was convinced that Elrogs were what I was looking for and not a warm, romantic and perhaps rolled off sound.


----------



## Somatic (Dec 16, 2022)

zen87192 said:


> I'm looking forward to installing mine as well... makes up for the loss on the Melz. 😔


If it makes you feel better your not missing out anything huge. I just put these on today and I like them a lot. Will test out tmrw.

Edit: I forgot these need socket savers. My cables are pinched :/
Edit2: These TUNG-SOL VT99 6f8g Round Plates sound amazing. Beautiful euphonic midrange. Wetter sound. I'm digging it. My favorite so far. Can be a bit bright at times. We shall see how these break in.


----------



## Somatic

What is everyone's favorite tube combos for the Envy?

So far my favorite is Elrog ER300B + TUNG-SOL VT99 6f8g Round Plates. Heard the flat plates are good as well. Anyone have experience with Flat plates?


----------



## zen87192

Somatic said:


> Good thing I replaced the fuse. This is what I found. Seemed like the fuse got damaged in shipping. Not sure where the other end is. Ugh lol


Were you already listening to the Envy with this fuse still inside?


----------



## 1Audiophool

Somatic said:


> Good thing I replaced the fuse. This is what I found. Seemed like the fuse got damaged in shipping. Not sure where the other end is. Ugh lol


Maybe this is where your whine was coming from. Is it still present?


----------



## alekc

nwavesailor said:


> As soon as I ordered my Envy I was convinced I would buy the WE. Made in  USA and with a 5 year warranty.
> After reading many posts, particularly by the resident Elrog tube pushers,  @paradoxper and @ColSaulTigh I was convinced that Elrogs were what I was looking for and not a warm, romantic and perhaps rolled off sound.


@nwavesailor nah, do not get fooled by all those pushers, Envy is great at delivering warm, romantic and perhaps a bit rolled off sound, while indeed if one is looking for more intimacy due to narrower and a closer sound stage Euforia AE from Feliks portfolio could be better especially with easier to drive cans than Susvara. 

At the end of day everyone loves warm, romantic sound from tube amps especially together with gentle tube glow


----------



## Somatic

zen87192 said:


> Were you already listening to the Envy with this fuse still inside?


Yes, I wasn't aware the fuse was damaged. It was working somehow. I replaced it as soon as I saw it.


----------



## zen87192

Somatic said:


> Yes, I wasn't aware the fuse was damaged. It was working somehow. I replaced it as soon as I saw it.


Fingers crossed that whining sound has now gone for you?


----------



## Somatic

1Audiophool said:


> Maybe this is where your whine was coming from. Is it still present?


Whine is still present. I just troubleshooted it. Its coming from the Dave. When Dave is off. I don't get it. Issue is through XLR and RCA outs. Sounds the same. Good thing the whine is only audible when I'm in a very loud volume range which I won't ever be at.


----------



## zen87192

Somatic said:


> Whine is still present. I just troubleshooted it. Its coming from the Dave


Is it a Grounding issue perhaps?


----------



## Somatic

zen87192 said:


> Is it a Grounding issue perhaps?


I'm not sure. If DAC is off, the Envy does not produce this high whine in a certain volume range. Coming from DAC. Do I need to ground the Dave or Envy? Sorry, not sure if there are steps I should take to do further troubleshooting.


----------



## zen87192

I'm guessing you may need to ground the DAVE. Have you another audio item you can connect to the DAVE that either may be Grounded itself? I may be totally wrong on the Grounding front though.... also.. have you moved as far away as possible with your Headphones on from the units to test?


----------



## zen87192

Settings and connections on the DAVE are obviously correct I presume...


----------



## Somatic

zen87192 said:


> I'm guessing you may need to ground the DAVE. Have you another audio item you can connect to the DAVE that either may be Grounded itself? I may be totally wrong on the Grounding front though.... also.. have you moved as far away as possible with your Headphones on from the units to test?


Hmm, I'll look into it. Its audible only on louder volume ranges. Too loud even for me. Weird thing is I never noticed this with the Ferrum stack. Maybe Envy is more  sensitive and is picking up electronic noise from the Dave? I can ask the Dave forum.


----------



## Somatic (Dec 16, 2022)

zen87192 said:


> Settings and connections on the DAVE are obviously correct I presume...


Let me know if you can produce the same sound when you get the Envy. Very curious.

Edit: will probably get a cheap Topping to test this out ...


----------



## Somatic

Super proud of myself. I trouble shooted the issue. The Dave's LCD when on is causing the high pitched whine. When  I turned off the DAC the sound was gone. So if I use display 4 and LCD screen turns off. It helps immensely. Almost dead quiet when going to insane volume levels.


----------



## zen87192 (Dec 16, 2022)

Somatic said:


> Super proud of myself. I trouble shooted the issue. The Dave's LCD when on is causing the high pitched whine. When  I turned off the DAC the sound was gone. So if I use display 4 and LCD screen turns off. It helps immensely. Almost dead quiet when going to insane volume levels.


Yay!!! Well found! Glad all is resolved for you. Purple fuse in... (make sure its the right way around)
Now enjoy and keep us posted of all your listening thoughts 🎧


----------



## Somatic

zen87192 said:


> Yay!!! Well found! Glad all is resolved for you. Purple fuse in... (make sure its the right way around)
> Now enjoy and keep us posted of all your listening thoughts 🎧


I'm using the orientation stated by @incredulousity. Flow from bottom to top. So the S would be on the bottom.

@zen87192 Can you do me a favor? When you get your Envy in can you try and reproduce my high pitched whine issue? Thanks.


----------



## zen87192

Will do.... no probs. 🎧


----------



## incredulousity

Somatic said:


> I'm using the orientation stated by @incredulousity. Flow from bottom to top. So the S would be on the bottom.
> 
> @zen87192 Can you do me a favor? When you get your Envy in can you try and reproduce my high pitched whine issue? Thanks.



This orientation was derived by actual measurement of the conduction path of power into Envy. I recommend that anyone using aftermarket “orientation sensitive” fuses do this for every device, or consult someone who has.


----------



## Somatic

incredulousity said:


> This orientation was derived by actual measurement of the conduction path of power into Envy. I recommend that anyone using aftermarket “orientation sensitive” fuses do this for every device, or consult someone who has.


I remember you mentioned you did the measurements. Only reason I copied your orientation. Thanks for this.


----------



## incredulousity

Somatic said:


> I remember you mentioned you did the measurements. Only reason I copied your orientation. Thanks for this.


I know. Just commented for benefit of those jumping in at the end of the thread.


----------



## turbofeet

What SR fuse rating do we need in the UK (240v) please. Is it 5x20mm at 2.5A?


----------



## incredulousity

turbofeet said:


> What SR fuse rating do we need in the UK (240v) please. Is it 5x20mm at 2.5A?


It is written on the back of the amp, IIRC.


----------



## turbofeet (Dec 16, 2022)

Yes indeed it says 2.5v but I just wasn't sure of the size ￼

Edit: 2.5A not 2.5v...


----------



## incredulousity (Dec 16, 2022)

small, slow burn. 5x20mm


----------



## nwavesailor

slow 'blow'


----------



## zen87192

😂😂 don’t pop your fuse!


----------



## zen87192

And….. back on thread! 😜


----------



## turbofeet

Thanks guys. I'll give one a try.


----------



## zen87192 (Dec 16, 2022)

Is anyone in the UK who can point me to a good supplier for Socket Savers in the UK please?


----------



## ThanatosVI

turbofeet said:


> Thanks guys. I'll give one a try



Someone even recommended the Audio Magic M1 over the SR Purple


----------



## turbofeet

I have ordered from Deyan on this forum (previously recommended). His prices are reasonable and includes postage to the UK.


----------



## Somatic

zen87192 said:


> 😂😂 don’t pop your fuse!


That's always my problem.  haha


----------



## incredulousity

nwavesailor said:


> slow 'blow'


whatever pops your fuse...


----------



## Somatic (Dec 18, 2022)

I have to do more testing but anyone notice if you use certain driver tubes that accentuate bass with Elrogs on the Envy, when you crank up the volume very loud you get distortion in the bass region?

Wondering if it’s the amp, tubes or that the physical drivers on the headphone just can’t cope?

Example Elrog ER + Kenrads/RCA smoked glass, high volume on Atrium drivers.

Got to test on the Susvara later. Thanks

Edit: sounds like tube distortion/saturation on the low end   Almost like the physical drivers can’t cope.

Edit2: Scratch that. Seems I was listening to bass music with distortion etc in the song. Seems fine.


----------



## JTbbb

Somatic said:


> I have to do more testing but anyone notice if you use certain driver tubes that accentuate bass with Elrogs on the Envy, when you crank up the volume very loud you get distortion in the bass region?
> 
> Wondering if it’s the amp, tubes or that the physical drivers on the headphone just can’t cope?
> 
> ...


Out of interest, try another impedance setting, and try the experiment again.


----------



## Somatic

JTbbb said:


> Out of interest, try another impedance setting, and try the experiment again.


Ok will try out tonight. I know medium impedance is too high for the atriums but I can test


----------



## JTbbb

Somatic said:


> Ok will try out tonight. I know medium impedance is too high for the atriums but I can test


I have a pair of ecc32’s which are recommended in the instruction manual. The bass is not good at the lo impedance setting, but is mighty fine at mid. This is with HD800S phones. I appreciate though that these tubes are only similar electrically to 6sn7’s.


----------



## incredulousity

The applicability of impedance setting will vary with driver tubes and of course headphones on Envy. Don’t go by the numbers as you roll tubes. Go by what sounds best to you.


----------



## Somatic

@incredulousity 

When you replaced your fuse on the Envy, there were 2 fuses in there. Was the first fuse when pulling out the housing, the fuse being used and the one in the back a spare? Thanks.


----------



## incredulousity (Dec 19, 2022)

Somatic said:


> @incredulousity
> 
> When you replaced your fuse on the Envy, there were 2 fuses in there. Was the first fuse when pulling out the housing, the fuse being used and the one in the back a spare? Thanks.


I think the deeper fuse had the live connection. I was careful to verify this, as GSX Mk2 takes two fuses, both of which are used.

The live connection fuse holder grips the fuse more tightly, iirc.


----------



## Somatic (Dec 19, 2022)

incredulousity said:


> I think the deeper fuse had the live connection. I was careful to verify this, as GSX Mk2 takes two fuses, both of which are used.


Hmmm, Ok need to replace the right one LOL.

Edit: Just put both in. One will be spare anyways. Get rid of boxes.


----------



## incredulousity

Somatic said:


> Hmmm, Ok need to replace the right one LOL


Only if you believe in fuses…


----------



## Somatic

I know this is not needed but technically wouldn't an isolation platform benefit the Envy for microphonics? Not sure how much real world changes it would produce though. Thoughts?

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_892IDW1817/IsoAcoustics-Delos.html?tp=98058


----------



## incredulousity (Dec 19, 2022)

_sure, theoretically. _

In my stack, I notice microphonics only when I tap the tubes to test microphonics  deliberately.

But, my speakers are very far away, and my rack is very heavy, and so are most of the components on it.


----------



## incredulousity

Go ugly, Envy!


----------



## nwavesailor (Dec 20, 2022)

incredulousity said:


> Go ugly, Envy!



"It's ALIVE, it's ALIVE!!!"

"I'm afraid we'll need to pull the plug(s) on the patient"


----------



## incredulousity (Dec 20, 2022)

nwavesailor said:


> "I'm afraid we'll need to pull the plug(s) on this patient"
> 
> "It's ALIVE, it's ALIVE!!!"


Sadly, this experiment is not working. A little tube hum and no sound at all. I’m going to cool the tubes and verify that everything is plugged in correctly, but this may be a no go.

Edit: I think there is something wrong with one of the adapters. I’ll table this experiment for now. 

Back to Melz and Elrog Mo for now.


----------



## zen87192

incredulousity said:


> Go ugly, Envy!


Where does the Tea & Coffee come out from though?


----------



## nwavesailor

zen87192 said:


> Where does the Tea & Coffee come out from though?


Yup, it does look like several French coffee presses!


----------



## zen87192

My Envy is F.I.N.A.L.L.Y.... here! 
🥳
A good Christmas I shall have!!!


----------



## Somatic

zen87192 said:


> My Envy is F.I.N.A.L.L.Y.... here!
> 🥳
> A good Christmas I shall have!!!


Woot woot. Wishing you the best.


----------



## incredulousity

zen87192 said:


> Where does the Tea & Coffee come out from though?





This makes the coffee.


----------



## zen87192

incredulousity said:


> This makes the coffee.


Where do the Tubes go? 🤣


----------



## JTbbb

incredulousity said:


> This makes the coffee.


That’s a wicked looking set of headphones….you gotta clamp em to your ears 😀


----------



## nwavesailor

You folks on the Oregon coast take your coffee VERY seriously! 
No wonder you experiment with those whacky Franken-Tubes............gotta do something with all that caffeine in your body!!!!


----------



## ColSaulTigh

incredulousity said:


> Go ugly, Envy!


What in the world are those drivers???


----------



## incredulousity

ColSaulTigh said:


> What in the world are those drivers???


ГУ-50. Crazy 12.6V Russian military tubes. Dirt cheap. Clarity and speed monsters.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

incredulousity said:


> ГУ-50. Crazy 12.6V Russian military tubes. Dirt cheap. Clarity and speed monsters.


Deyan adapters I assume?  Anything special about the power supply?


----------



## incredulousity

ColSaulTigh said:


> Deyan adapters I assume?  Anything special about the power supply?


Deyan adapters and power supply. I don’t have this combo working yet. Don’t start shopping until I prove the concept works and isn’t awful. I think one of my adapters is bad, but I have 6, so probably a solvable problem. Also, I have lots of the tubes, purchased before Russia completely jumped the shark, so there is no need for you to support that country’s economy.


----------



## zen87192

Warming up and getting ready for lift off!


----------



## Somatic

zen87192 said:


> Warming up and getting ready for lift off!


Oh man. Excited for you. I want to know when you switch to your TOTL tubes as well. How long do you plan to run stock tubes? Did you get Performance version?


----------



## zen87192

Yes. I purchased the Performance edition as 'I thought' I would keep it Stock for a while before 'Rolling'. How wrong I was! Certain Jedi Powers on this thread 'made' me buy Elrogs and 6F8G'S!! 
I will run Stock for a while as I wish to enjoy the Stock sound and try to note all frequency areas before moving on to additional/improved Tubes.
I'm loving the Oak finish... not as bright as I thought it may have been which is welcomed by me as I like the Golden Oak colour it is. Excellent!
So.... 30 minutes have passed for warming... here I go!....  🎧


----------



## Somatic

They are quite pretty. Saw her at night with Elrogs glowing and my love was growing deeper lol


----------



## turbofeet

Stock full music are still pretty sweet. Enjoy


----------



## JTbbb

Up and running. Nice.


----------



## Somatic

JTbbb said:


> Up and running. Nice.


Where did you get your adapters? They look nice.


----------



## JTbbb

Somatic said:


> Where did you get your adapters? They look nice.


Deyan. Member of this Forum.


----------



## turbofeet

JTbbb said:


> Up and running. Nice.


All fixed and silent?


----------



## nwavesailor (Dec 22, 2022)

JTbbb said:


> Up and running. Nice.


 How do you like the 6J5's in your Envy?


----------



## Somatic

Can you hear the transformer hum from 3-4 feet away in a silent room? It's very minor but when the house is quiet I can hear it. This pretty normal?


----------



## ThanatosVI

JTbbb said:


> Up and running. Nice.


No extra current needed?


----------



## nwavesailor

2 6J5G draw current equal to 1 6SN7


----------



## ThanatosVI

nwavesailor said:


> 2 6J5G draw current equal to 1 6SN7


Follow up, which 6J5Gs are "good", what's worth checking out here?


----------



## nwavesailor

I am a fan of the Tung Sol's but finding 2 pairs or a quad may be difficult.
The GEC straight bottle L63 can still be found at Langrex for 42,5 GBP. There is a lot of love on the 6J5 forum for these but, compared to others I own, I found them kind of boring.
I also have GEC 6J5G, Brimar / STC and Visseaux. All are very nice but getting pretty expensive for 2 pairs or a quad.


----------



## incredulousity (Dec 22, 2022)

Somatic said:


> Can you hear the transformer hum from 3-4 feet away in a silent room? It's very minor but when the house is quiet I can hear it. This pretty normal?


No. it is not at all normal 

What is your power chain?


----------



## Somatic

incredulousity said:


> No. it is not at all normal
> 
> What is your power chain?


I use this ...

https://zerosurge.com/8r-series/
8R15W-I

I can try and plug it directly into the wall and see if it changes anything.


----------



## turbofeet

ThanatosVI said:


> Follow up, which 6J5Gs are "good", what's worth checking out here?


When is your Envy due sir? Must be soon?


----------



## ThanatosVI

turbofeet said:


> When is your Envy due sir? Must be soon?


Well since the stars didn't align for Dezember I expect it in January. 

The Envy has delay, in return my recliner arrived 3 weeks early.

You win some you Lose some


----------



## ColSaulTigh

ThanatosVI said:


> Follow up, which 6J5Gs are "good", what's worth checking out here?


I'm currently running quad NOS Ken Rad 6J5G, which sound nice and sweet.  Slightly lean, but very clean and crisp.


----------



## incredulousity

Lean… just swap in the ER300B Elrogs!


----------



## incredulousity

Somatic said:


> I use this ...
> 
> https://zerosurge.com/8r-series/
> 8R15W-I
> ...


Try that. Most amp transformer hum is a power issue. I’m not familiar with your power block. Strongly recommend Puritan PSM156.


----------



## nwavesailor

ColSaulTigh said:


> I'm currently running quad NOS Ken Rad 6J5G, which sound nice and sweet.  Slightly lean, but very clean and crisp.


As one who owns and knows how good the TSRP 6SN7 and TS 6F78G sound, you would be floored with the TS 6J5G.
If you DO score a quad or 2 pairs, the TS gods will be VERY pleased!


----------



## nwavesailor

JTbbb said:


> Deyan. Member of this Forum.


I have Mrs X 6J5 adapters and they work fine but I just placed an order for a pair of Deyan's version.
 I sometime want to swap in another quad of 6J5G's late at night. Another set of adapters will make this quicker and easier.


----------



## Somatic

nwavesailor said:


> I have Mrs X 6J5 adapters and they work fine but I just placed an order for a pair of Deyan's version.
> I sometime want to swap in another quad of 6J5G's late at night. Another set of adapters will make this quicker and easier.


Deyan’s look nicer. Probably order some too if I end up liking 6J5.


----------



## zen87192

Oh gosh… here I go again… TS 6J5G‘s…. Will it ever stop….rollin’…..rollin’….. rollin’.


----------



## nwavesailor (Dec 22, 2022)

Somatic said:


> Deyan’s look nicer. Probably order some too if I end up liking 6J5.


I'm pretty sure you will like the 6J5's but I don't want to lead the witness! 🙄

Let’s wait for @incredulousity and @JTbbb to chime in with their take on the 6J5’s


----------



## Somatic

incredulousity said:


> Try that. Most amp transformer hum is a power issue. I’m not familiar with your power block. Strongly recommend Puritan PSM156.


Hmm. It looks nice. Looking into this.


----------



## JTbbb

turbofeet said:


> All fixed and silent?


Nope, not totally silent. It seems the transformer was replaced, not repaired as I initially thought. My dealer kindly sent with the amp a DC Blocker to try. Makes no difference. In their premises they couldn’t hear the hum two feet away. I and others can certainly hear it nine feet away when my room is totally silent. I think some of the problem is that once you are accustomed to the frequency, you can tune into it immediately. In all other respects it’s perfect.


----------



## incredulousity

nwavesailor said:


> I'm pretty sure you will like the 6J5's but I don't want to lead the witness! 🙄
> 
> Let’s wait for @incredulousity and @JTbbb to chime in with their take on the 6J5’s


The Vissaeux 6J5 and the Elrog Mo are a phenomenal combination. They are good with the ER too, but the midrange gets too tooby for me. Yes. That is possible. 

They are on par with the Melz and KT88. But none of them sound the same. Many great choices are nothing to complain about!


----------



## turbofeet

Oh that's a little annoying. At least it's inaudible when listening to music I guess it can be lived with though.

Enjoy the music.


----------



## incredulousity

JTbbb said:


> Nope, not totally silent. It seems the transformer was replaced, not repaired as I initially thought. My dealer kindly sent with the amp a DC Blocker to try. Makes no difference. In their premises they couldn’t hear the hum two feet away. I and others can certainly hear it nine feet away when my room is totally silent. I think some of the problem is that once you are accustomed to the frequency, you can tune into it immediately. In all other respects it’s perfect.


Any possibility of a ground loop?


----------



## JTbbb

nwavesailor said:


> How do you like the 6J5's in your Envy?


I like them. As others have said, they are up with what are regarded the nicer 6sn7’s, and they don’t half look impressive 😀. Not parting with my 6sn7’s though!


----------



## nwavesailor

incredulousity said:


> The Vissaeux 6J5 and the Elrog Mo are a phenomenal combination. They are good with the ER too, but the midrange gets too tooby for me. Yes. That is possible.
> 
> They are on par with the Melz and KT88. But none of them sound the same. Many great choices are nothing to complain about!


OK!
I need to get the MO’s in tonight paired with the V’s!


----------



## UntilThen

ThanatosVI said:


> Well many Envy owners used to be Feliks Audio owners in the past, and you can roll some crazy crap on the Elise and Euforia models



Sad to see the crazy tube rolling days of Elise and Euforia carrying over into Envy. KT88 were never meant to be drivers and Lukasz will say so, as well as his dad.


----------



## Somatic

JTbbb said:


> Nope, not totally silent. It seems the transformer was replaced, not repaired as I initially thought. My dealer kindly sent with the amp a DC Blocker to try. Makes no difference. In their premises they couldn’t hear the hum two feet away. I and others can certainly hear it nine feet away when my room is totally silent. I think some of the problem is that once you are accustomed to the frequency, you can tune into it immediately. In all other respects it’s perfect.


Like @incredulousity recommend to me. The PSM 156 might be the solution? Seems like reviewer had same issue and this fixed transformer hum. 



https://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2022/11/12/puritan-audio-psm-156-is-worth-its-weight-in-gold/?amp=1


----------



## incredulousity

UntilThen said:


> Sad to see the crazy tube rolling days of Elise and Euforia carrying over into Envy. KT88 were never meant to be drivers and Lukasz will say so, as well as his dad.


No they were not. And yet they sound great. But you do have to use external power, lest you kill your amp.


----------



## ThanatosVI

UntilThen said:


> Sad to see the crazy tube rolling days of Elise and Euforia carrying over into Envy. KT88 were never meant to be drivers and Lukasz will say so, as well as his dad.


True they were never meant to be drivers but as power tube replacement they were nice.

I'd love to see a KT88 based amp from Feliks some day. One that is meant to use them with actual operating points set for KT88


----------



## incredulousity (Dec 22, 2022)

ThanatosVI said:


> True they were never meant to be drivers but as power tube replacement they were nice.
> 
> I'd love to see a KT88 based amp from Feliks some day. One that is meant to use them with actual operating points set for KT88


Agree. Like a Euforia Evo Plus.

And have it use something more available than 6SN7 as drivers. 

Price $4.5-5k.


----------



## ThanatosVI

incredulousity said:


> Agree. Like a Euforia Evo Plus.


I thought more about a transformer coupled "Envy lite"


----------



## JTbbb

nwavesailor said:


> I am a fan of the Tung Sol's but finding 2 pairs or a quad may be difficult.
> The GEC straight bottle L63 can still be found at Langrex for 42,5 GBP. There is a lot of love on the 6J5 forum for these but, compared to others I own, I found them kind of boring.
> I also have GEC 6J5G, Brimar / STC and Visseaux. All are very nice but getting pretty expensive for 2 pairs or a quad.


I wouldn’t worry about finding matching pairs or quads. My four all have differing test results and weren’t all bought from a single source, they sound fine. The only thing I was careful with was internal construction.


----------



## incredulousity (Dec 22, 2022)

ThanatosVI said:


> I thought more about a transformer coupled "Envy lite"


Ok. You win. That’s better, but up price by $1k.

After all, Envy is so good with dynamics that one doesn’t need an OTL.


----------



## JTbbb

incredulousity said:


> Any possibility of a ground loop?


Nope. I’ve had the amp totally disconnected from other equipment, plugged into another room, on a different circuit, all on it’s lonesome. Still hums happily to itself.


----------



## nwavesailor

I applaud your patience and tenacity, JTbbb!
 You knew what you were looking for with the telltale internal construction denoting what tubes, some branded X or Y, were the 'real' GEC ST you were after. 

I don't have your patience and yes I do end up paying more for a pair or quad of many tubes that are branded identically and from the same time of production.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

incredulousity said:


> Lean… just swap in the ER300B Elrogs!


I could just put in some WE's and call it a draw!


----------



## ColSaulTigh

nwavesailor said:


> As one who owns and knows how good the TSRP 6SN7 and TS 6F78G sound, you would be floored with the TS 6J5G.
> If you DO score a quad or 2 pairs, the TS gods will be VERY pleased!


I've been looking for those as well as a few others.  Everything I find on the 'bay is either onesies or mismatched pairs....


----------



## zen87192 (Dec 23, 2022)

I'm thinking of trying some Philips ECG JAN 6J5WGT (Military Version) as they are so cheap one can't go wrong.... can one? Philips... a well known manufacturer and these will all be matched as well. 🤔


----------



## JTbbb

nwavesailor said:


> I applaud your patience and tenacity, JTbbb!
> You knew what you were looking for with the telltale internal construction denoting what tubes, some branded X or Y, were the 'real' GEC ST you were after.
> 
> I don't have your patience and yes I do end up paying more for a pair or quad of many tubes that are branded identically and from the same time of production.


I find it a lot of fun hunting down a tube to match a single I may have. Even nicer when it comes back from where I send them for testing, and they match!


----------



## incredulousity

ColSaulTigh said:


> I could just put in some WE's and call it a draw!


Well I don’t think you need to go that far.


----------



## nwavesailor

ColSaulTigh said:


> I've been looking for those as well as a few others.  Everything I find on the 'bay is either onesies or mismatched pairs....


I was fortunate to snag the TS years ago (as well as a backup pair) when they were easier to find and not big $$$.
I had no idea I'd be using them in the Envy until I bought adapters and tried them. 
I don't think I've heard any TS that wasn't good. The TSRP 6SN7 and 6F8G are truly outstanding in every amp I've used them.


----------



## UntilThen

incredulousity said:


> No they were not. And yet they sound great. But you do have to use external power, lest you kill your amp.



Sounding great is a difference of opinion. I've been there and done that including using external power supply. KT88 in Odyssey is a revelation and it sits in the power slot.


----------



## TheAbyss2022

I heard this amp at Canjam with the Empyreans, I haven't heard the Empyreans as good as that since...


----------



## incredulousity

UntilThen said:


> Sounding great is a difference of opinion. I've been there and done that including using external power supply. KT88 in Odyssey is a revelation and it sits in the power slot.


I liked it much better as power than driver in Euforia as well. Envy is a different beast entirely, including the topology of the 6SN7 circuit, and these sound as good as the better 6SN7 in it. Not the same, but differences are within the spectrum of 6SN7 good tube variants, not a wild outlier.

Again, I don’t disagree that KTxx isn’t intended as a driver tube. It just happens to work very well for Envy in that application.


----------



## nwavesailor

UntilThen said:


> Sounding great is a difference of opinion.


Exactly……,

I may prefer a sound that isn’t your cup of tea but to me it may sound great and that’s all that matters. Some love vanilla and others love chocolate!


----------



## bAsschiP

TheAbyss2022 said:


> I heard this amp at Canjam with the Empyreans, I haven't heard the Empyreans as good as that since...


I agree...........I am a neophyte when it comes to this hobby but the Envy Performance Edition coupled with the Empyreans is the best I heard at CanJam SoCal 2022.


----------



## Somatic

bAsschiP said:


> I agree...........I am a neophyte when it comes to this hobby but the Envy Performance Edition coupled with the Empyreans is the best I heard at CanJam SoCal 2022.


Nice. I’m hoping @ThanatosVI gives is the scoop.


----------



## Somatic

nwavesailor said:


> OK!
> I need to get the MO’s in tonight paired with the V’s!


Let us know your first impressions with the Mo. mine should come in tmrw. Let’s see


----------



## Somatic

Letting the WE300B burn in properly. Still prefer Elrogs at this point but if these smooth out with the right driver tube I can see it being very good.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Somatic said:


> Nice. I’m hoping @ThanatosVI gives is the scoop.


Of course I will!


----------



## 1Audiophool

How’d you guys get your 6j5’s so dang fast? I ordered about a month ago and they’re still sitting in Slough!!!🥹…. and if that’s pronounced “slow”, we’ll then that’s an apt name!


----------



## nwavesailor (Dec 23, 2022)

Where did you buy them from? I'm just North of you in Washington state. 
Langrex takes about a week or perhaps a little longer, Tube World is 2 days, totempole_999 / electronicsmen come in 3-4 days after shipping and an Italian seller of the Visseaux took about 2 weeks.


----------



## 1Audiophool

Langrex


----------



## nwavesailor (Dec 23, 2022)

There are a lot of Royal Mail postal strikes several days this month or hung up in customs.


----------



## 1Audiophool

Yeah that’s what they said… though I ordered them a good 2 weeks before the strike started from what I read. They haven’t moved since November 28th lol


----------



## nwavesailor

I received tubes from Langrex on Dec 8th ordered Nov 28th.


----------



## 1Audiophool

nwavesailor said:


> I received tubes from Langrex on Dec 8th ordered Nov 28th.


Hmmm, well I just emailed them so we’ll see. Figured it was the strikes so I wasn’t too worried but that’s not a good sign. I’ve been so busy at work I haven’t really thought about them. Hopefully they’re not lost.


----------



## nwavesailor

I have good email communication from Michelle at Langrex regarding tracking info. I think if an order is less than 100 GBP there may be no tracking.


----------



## 1Audiophool

Yeah, Michelle gave me a tracking # after I had emailed to ask about my order because it had been an over an week and I hadn’t received any shipping notification or confirmation of my order and it was >$400. I know Langrex is reputable but this transaction has been a little off since the beginning… probably just bad timing (combination of strike/holidays). Just hope they come because I know they don’t have more. 🤞….and the adapters are getting lonely


----------



## zen87192

Anyone running these yet? 
6J5G L63 BRIMAR NOS​Please comment on their sound and reliability.


----------



## incredulousity

zen87192 said:


> Anyone running these yet?
> 6J5G L63 BRIMAR NOS​Please comment on their sound and reliability.


No, but coincidentally, I just ordered some.


----------



## JTbbb

incredulousity said:


> No, but coincidentally, I just ordered some.


I have some incoming too.


----------



## nwavesailor (Dec 23, 2022)

Did I miss the Christmas 🌲 sale at Langrex?🙄

Kidding!

 I don't 'need' any more 6J5G's but is need a factor when hunting for glowing glass bottles?


----------



## incredulousity

No. Just FotM(inute) and coincidence.


----------



## Somatic (Dec 24, 2022)

Messing around with the Elrog MOs + Melz 1578. Doesn't seem like the Atrium drivers can keep up. At higher volumes (too loud, maybe only for half a song etc) it starts to distort. Too much bass and it can't handle it.

@ColSaulTigh did you ever notice this with the Atriums? The Susvara can handle it. With ER and MO, feels Susvara is on the edge of what it is capable of in the bass region. It sounds very bassy for a Susvara and any more will not be balanced and will probably distort the driver.

Edit: I think due to being so tonally balanced. It is easier to crank up the volume at times. More than if it wasn't balanced.
Edit2: Mos do seem a bit brighter. Or more intense at times. I think it would pair well with a more wet, euphonic driver tube. I will experiment later.


----------



## Somatic (Dec 24, 2022)

Somatic said:


> Messing around with the Elrog MOs + Melz 1578. Doesn't seem like the Atrium drivers can keep up. At higher volumes (too loud, maybe only for half a song etc) it starts to distort. Too much bass and it can't handle it.
> 
> @ColSaulTigh did you ever notice this with the Atriums? The Susvara can handle it. With ER and MO, feels Susvara is on the edge of what it is capable of in the bass region. It sounds very bassy for a Susvara and any more will not be balanced and will probably distort the driver.
> 
> ...


Ok so the distortion issue with bassy music seems to be when cranking it up in low gain. This happens with Atriums and the Susvara. Very noticeable in low gain with both. Medium gain gets better and high gain pretty good.  Issue is with the Atriums, any gain level other than low it has too much noise floor.

Have anyone noticed this? Using Elrogs and tried Melz and RCA smoked glass. Thanks.

Edit: In high gain, it mainly fixes the distortion issue. Medium gain is better but not 100%. I need to test non Elrog tubes and see if this is the case with the Envy. Used the song below. Seems like Susvara in high gain at very loud levels tend to distort as well. Hhmmm.

https://open.qobuz.com/track/6285043


----------



## Somatic

Can someone do me a favor? Please use any of the 300B Elrogs with any driver tube. Play this song in low gain, then medium. On louder volumes I get distortion. With high gain it is only apparent with extremely high volumes which one will never listen to. Use a headphone like the Susvara due to not being very sensitive, it is easier to hear the distortion in lower gain settings.

https://open.qobuz.com/track/6285043


----------



## Somatic (Dec 24, 2022)

JTbbb said:


> Out of interest, try another impedance setting, and try the experiment again.


Issue seems to be with lower gain settings hhmmm. Time to test other power tubes.

Edit: Tried different power tubes.

Susvara low gain + medium gain + loud volume = getting distortion in bassy songs
Atrium low gain = getting distortion in bassy songs (i might be able to get it to distort in medium gain but it would be too loud to listen to)

*Does seem like the higher the gain setting the easier it can handle strong bass music? Wondering if these is with all Envys or mine. So i ruled our power tubes, driver tubes. Leaves Envy or possibly my DAC? Hmmm. Thanks.


----------



## JTbbb

Somatic said:


> Issue seems to be with lower gain settings hhmmm. Time to test other power tubes.
> 
> Edit: Tried different power tubes.
> 
> ...


I will try this on Boxing Day. But my phones are not too hard to drive like your Sus.


----------



## Somatic

JTbbb said:


> I will try this on Boxing Day. But my phones are not too hard to drive like your Sus.


I can recreate with Atriums at low gain setting as well. Once I crank up the volume.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Bear in mind i don't own an Envy.  But I can test tonight after dinner.


----------



## Somatic

ColSaulTigh said:


> Bear in mind i don't own an Envy.  But I can test tonight after dinner.


At this point I assume issue is either Envy, DAC or LPS for the Dave.


----------



## turbofeet

That track (like many others nowadays) I can even hear distortion it away from home with my Tablet + Roon + SE180 + Meze Empyrean.

It's a common theme in modern music which erks the audiophile within me.

Here are some bass tracks you can try:

https://open.qobuz.com/track/99149425

https://open.qobuz.com/track/108744295

Are you using Roon? You can also enable headroom management at around -3db and display clipping indicator.


----------



## Somatic

turbofeet said:


> That track (like many others nowadays) I can even hear distortion it away from home with my Tablet + Roon + SE180 + Meze Empyrean.
> 
> It's a common theme in modern music which erks the audiophile within me.
> 
> ...


Thanks for other test tracks. I’ll try out and let you know. Not a great song but something I had from before that had bass. 

I will see if I can recreate with these songs. I know I got the Atriums to distort on loud volume levels with a Deftones song as well. Will check out.


----------



## JTbbb

turbofeet said:


> That track (like many others nowadays) I can even hear distortion it away from home with my Tablet + Roon + SE180 + Meze Empyrean.
> 
> It's a common theme in modern music which erks the audiophile within me.
> 
> ...


Ok, not as savvy as you guys with the computer, but try this track for bass.

The Chainsmokers, So Far So Good, track The Fall.


----------



## incredulousity (Dec 24, 2022)

Somatic said:


> Issue seems to be with lower gain settings hhmmm. Time to test other power tubes.
> 
> Edit: Tried different power tubes.
> 
> ...


I have no such phenomenon, but I am using sensitive headphones. The only insensitive phone I have is Hedd. Will test in a bit. Envy is cold. Also, please give Qobuz links to other bass heavy tracks that have been problematic for you.

Of course, I’d be happy to test your Susvara and Atrium, if you need another data point. 🤪. I’ll even pay return shipping.


----------



## incredulousity

incredulousity said:


> I have no such phenomenon, but I am using sensitive headphones. The only insensitive phone I have is Hedd. Will test in a bit. Envy is cold. Also, please give Qobuz links to other bass heavy tracks that have been problematic for you.
> 
> Of course, I’d be happy to test your Susvara and Atrium, if you need another data point. 🤪. I’ll even pay return shipping.


Ok. I tested with Hedd. I get bass distortion in low setting as well, not in medium or high. Only at much more than comfortable listening levels. This sort of thing is not surprising. The settings are a combination of impedance and gain, which is not precisely and publicly described by Feliks. The correct setting is the one which sounds best for any given headphone. As long as you can make it good on some setting, there is no cause for concern. I assume that you have verified that you are not clipping with Roon or HQP. I think that this is a feature, not a bug, and that there will be variations in the threshold for this with different driver/power tube combinations.


----------



## Somatic

incredulousity said:


> Ok. I tested with Hedd. I get bass distortion in low setting as well, not in medium or high. Only at much more than comfortable listening levels. This sort of thing is not surprising. The settings are a combination of impedance and gain, which is not precisely and publicly described by Feliks. The correct setting is the one which sounds best for any given headphone. As long as you can make it good on some setting, there is no cause for concern. I assume that you have verified that you are not clipping with Roon or HQP. I think that this is a feature, not a bug, and that there will be variations in the threshold for this with different driver/power tube combinations.


Thanks for verifying. I really appreciate it. I’m not using Roon or hqp but I’ll see if there is a way I can create more digital headroom to prevent clipping. 

What I find wierd is that the correct gain setting for the Atriums is low gain/impedance. But if one increases the gain to medium or even high, the bass distortion goes away. This makes me think if you are rocking out and listening to loud levels, sensitive headphones might be more prone to the distortion issue.


----------



## zen87192 (Dec 24, 2022)

Distorts at 11 O'clock  on low gain. Medium gain and high gain cannot distort for myself as too loud but no distortion up to 11 O'clock when I back off.
That's very loud for me as I listen at 9 O'clock to most things when I want to listen loud.
Not enough current getting to Susvara on Low Gain.
Chain: Susvara, Envy (Full Music, 6F8G's), DAVE, Silent Angel.


----------



## Somatic

zen87192 said:


> Distorts at 11 O'clock  on low gain. Medium gain and high gain cannot distort for myself as too loud but no distortion up to 11 O'clock when I back off.
> That's very loud for me as I listen at 9 O'clock to most things when I want to listen loud.
> Not enough current getting to Susvara on Low Gain.
> Chain: Susvara, Envy (Full Music, 6F8G's), DAVE, Silent Angel.


Now I’m wondering if we can get a sensitive headphone to distort on low gain, like I do on Atrium. But this is only when played loud. Maybe Atrium ideal gain/impedance is between low and medium lol


----------



## JTbbb

Somatic said:


> Now I’m wondering if we can get a sensitive headphone to distort on low gain, like I do on Atrium. But this is only when played loud. Maybe Atrium ideal gain/impedance is between low and medium lol


That bass track I have used has not distorted my Utopia’s on lo gain. And it was at loudness levels that I wouldn’t want to go beyond.


----------



## Somatic

JTbbb said:


> That bass track I have used has not distorted my Utopia’s on lo gain. And it was at loudness levels that I wouldn’t want to go beyond.


Ok I will test it out in a little bit


----------



## zen87192 (Dec 24, 2022)

It seems that Susvara likes to be fed appropriate, quality voltage PLUS Power to make them perform to their fullest capacity. Feliks Envy seems to offer this capability quite comfortably.


----------



## nwavesailor (Dec 24, 2022)

zen87192 said:


> It seems that Susvara likes to be fed appropriate, quality voltage PLUS Power to make them perform to their fullest capacity. Feliks Envy seems to offer this capability quite comfortably.


Yes and at a medium preferably high setting on the Envy is what the Sus needs to sound their best!


----------



## Somatic

paradoxper said:


> No. In the 300B thread, I covered their character response which illuminates strength of application.
> As the 4300E sounds pretty bang neutral, it is suited to be very well rounded.
> 
> I also miss some of the sweetness in this context of the Elrog. Additionally I like the ER300B more than the ER300B-Mo as the former carries more sweetness notably through the midrange.
> ...


Did you change your mind on the MO? Do you still prefer the ER due to midrange sweetness or now the TM?

I like the MO but it loses that midrange glow from the ER. Slightly more detailed but the ER is no slouch. Still tube rolling with the MO until I find the right combination. Bass is tighter. Not sure if it’s slightly more dry overall. Comes off slightly brighter but this could be from increasing the detail and extension.


----------



## nwavesailor (Dec 24, 2022)

2 days in and I’m figuring out the MO as well. The clarity and detail is superb! The ER was easy from the start. The MO is a completely different critter!!!!


----------



## incredulousity

nwavesailor said:


> 2 days in and I’m figuring out the MO as well. The clarity and detail is superb! The ER was easy from the start. The MO is a completely different critter!!!!


You are beginning to understand.


----------



## Somatic

Somatic said:


> Ok I will test it out in a little bit


Hhmm. The issue with distortion is primarily in low gain. Using HD600 and Atrium once you pass 10 - 11 oclock it start to distort. 10 oclock should be the loudest one should listen to the music but I can see someone wanting to push the envelope to 11 oclock for brief periods of time. So far seems like the Envy will distort in low gain past 10-11 oclock. I think this is across the board. Seems to be with all music. Noticeable after passing 11 oclock in low gain. 

Wondering if medium and high gain have the same issue but one cannot get loud enough to find out. Hmmm.

Thoughts? Happy Holidays Everyone.


----------



## paradoxper (Dec 24, 2022)

Somatic said:


> Did you change your mind on the MO? Do you still prefer the ER due to midrange sweetness or now the TM?
> 
> I like the MO but it loses that midrange glow from the ER. Slightly more detailed but the ER is no slouch. Still tube rolling with the MO until I find the right combination. Bass is tighter. Not sure if it’s slightly more dry overall. Comes off slightly brighter but this could be from increasing the detail and extension.


That's why the system matching is important. The ER just matches well to the 1266 which is my preferred number one.
I match the Mo with Valkyria which helps give it a lift as they're more on the darker side in presentation.
You may find a complementary driver but of all I've heard, I'm just not willing to concede too much in tipping warmth.

But it's really not all about the tubes but the whole chain with optimization.


----------



## zen87192

Merry Christmas everybody! 🎅


----------



## nwavesailor

🌲 Merry Christmas!🌲


----------



## Somatic (Dec 25, 2022)

Quick question, anyone know where the serial number is on the Envy? Thanks.

Think I found it, gold plate in back ... says 0068.


----------



## zen87192

Yes, gold plate on back of Envy or White sticker on side of packaging box


----------



## incredulousity

Toooooooooby Xmas to all!


----------



## nwavesailor

Now THAT's in  the Christmas Spirit…tube porn!!!!🎄


----------



## Somatic

incredulousity said:


> Toooooooooby Xmas to all!


Sexiest setup.  Which 6F8G tubes are those? TS?


----------



## incredulousity (Dec 25, 2022)

Somatic said:


> Sexiest setup.  Which 6F8G tubes are those? TS?


Yes. TS.

They sound great.

Meaty, with excellent imaging and pretty big soundstage. Great pairing with Elrog Mo.


----------



## Somatic

incredulousity said:


> Yes. TS.
> 
> They sound great.
> 
> Meaty, with excellent imaging and pretty big soundstage. Great pairing with Elrog Mo.


Waiting for my replacement tube. I love those tubes. I also guessed they would sound good with the MOs. Can’t wait to try them with the MOs.   

Have fun!!


----------



## nwavesailor (Dec 26, 2022)

Waiting for my replacement tube. I love those tubes.

Is one of your TS 6F8G bad?


----------



## Somatic

nwavesailor said:


> Waiting for my replacement tube. I love those tubes.
> 
> Is one if your TS 6F8G bad?


Yes, constant static noise. Seller is sending me a replacement.


----------



## JTbbb

incredulousity said:


> The settings are a combination of impedance and gain, which is not precisely and publicly described by Feliks. The correct setting is the one which sounds best for any given headphone. As long as you can make it good on some setting, there is no cause for concern.


I have found this to be the case for the Mullard ecc32’s. Ok, I know they are not an exact electrical match to 6sn7, and when installed with impedance Lo, it doesn’t matter which of my headphones I use, it doesn’t sound right. Put impedance to Mid…..bingo, all restored.


----------



## incredulousity

Not super pretty, but these TS 12SN7 drivers are great. Dynamic and resolving. Great bass and treble both. Adding it to the short list of favorites.


----------



## turbofeet

incredulousity said:


> Not super pretty, but these TS 12SN7 drivers are great. Dynamic and resolving. Great bass and treble both. Adding it to the short list of favorites.


----------



## nwavesailor (Dec 26, 2022)

I love that you are the official  ‘Mad Scientist’ of odd tubes in the Envy no doubt from your experience with other Feliks amps!

I’m good with pretty basic adapters for  using the 6F8G, dual 6J5G and perhaps 12A** tubes, nothing with additional power supplies. I understand the TSRP 12SN7 is identical to the uber $$$ TSRP 6SN7 so I can see how it would also sound great.


----------



## incredulousity (Dec 26, 2022)

Above, I am using 12V power supply to the drivers.

Additional power supplies is no big deal. @Deyan makes the wired sockets and power supplies. The wires are fairly unobtrusive. They will be even less conspicuous, when I get the wires done and can use Hypsos as the power supply.


----------



## Somatic

incredulousity said:


> Above, I am using 12V power supply to the drivers.
> 
> Additional power supplies is no big deal. @Deyan makes the wired sockets and power supplies. The wires are fairly unobtrusive. They will be even less conspicuous, when I get the wires done and can use Hypsos as the power supply.


Hmmm. Love the experimentation. So which drivers can work on the Envy that need an additional power supply. 

I would probably use the Hypsos to power it as it’s very versatile and good to have around.


----------



## incredulousity (Dec 26, 2022)

Any combination of tubes that draws more current than the standard PSVane drivers. There is probably some latitude in the design, but it is not published by Feliks, and why take any chances?!

Any tubes that require nonstandard voltage, such as 12SN7.

In my above pictured posts of odd tubes, I’ve described and/or shown the external power needed, if needed.


----------



## WATASHIWA

Hi, can you recommend this for the Susvara? I was reading about distortions in bass regionts etc, i was thinking to order it not i am not sure anymore, thanks


----------



## ColSaulTigh

In case anyone is looking for a pair of WE300B's:

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/we-300b-matched-pair-low-hours.38012/

I've bought from him before - good guy!


----------



## nwavesailor

WATASHIWA said:


> Hi, can you recommend this for the Susvara? I was reading about distortions in bass regionts etc, i was thinking to order it not i am not sure anymore, thanks


If ‘this’ is a concern with the Envy amp and Susvara, I get 0 distortion.

I know someone else posted an audio clip and mentioned distortion.

With my Envy set at high (where it needs to be for the Sus) I have no distortion with any tubes unless it is actually on the recording!


----------



## Somatic

nwavesailor said:


> If ‘this’ is a concern with the Envy amp and Susvara, I get 0 distortion.
> 
> I know someone else posted an audio clip and mentioned distortion.
> 
> With my Envy set at high (where it needs to be for the Sus) I have no distortion with any tubes unless it is actually on the recording!


No distortion with susvara in high gain. I only hear it in low gain when volume is over 10-11 oclock. It's a great amp. I hope I'm not dissuading anyone. My apologies.

@WATASHIWA 

Also, this is by far the best I have heard Susvaras.


----------



## incredulousity

WATASHIWA said:


> Hi, can you recommend this for the Susvara? I was reading about distortions in bass regionts etc, i was thinking to order it not i am not sure anymore, thanks


I don’t have a Susvara, but bass distortion comes from choosing the incorrect gain/impedance setting on Envy. People rave about Susvara on Envy, generally.


----------



## WATASHIWA

nwavesailor said:


> If ‘this’ is a concern with the Envy amp and Susvara, I get 0 distortion.
> 
> I know someone else posted an audio clip and mentioned distortion.
> 
> With my Envy set at high (where it needs to be for the Sus) I have no distortion with any tubes unless it is actually on the recording!


I you set to high, usually you get more noise right, how is the noise on the Envy? i just fall in love with this Amp and it matches the Susvara with the Walnut Wood so perfectly  i will go for it, my first Tube Amp


----------



## Somatic

WATASHIWA said:


> I you set to high, usually you get more noise right, how is the noise on the Envy? i just fall in love with this Amp and it matches the Susvara with the Walnut Wood so perfectly  i will go for it, my first Tube Amp


It’s a beautiful amp for being your first. It was my first as well. So much fun.


----------



## JTbbb

WATASHIWA said:


> I you set to high, usually you get more noise right, how is the noise on the Envy? i just fall in love with this Amp and it matches the Susvara with the Walnut Wood so perfectly  i will go for it, my first Tube Amp


I think as time passes we are going to find all sorts of headphone/tube/impedance setting combinations, that will or will not work. I think it will make the amp very versatile. As I have mentioned previously, with the ecc32’s installed I need impedance mid. Which works great with the HD800S phones, but not so well with the Utopia’s. It’s not that the SQ is lacking with the Utopia’s, far from it, it’s the background hiss/hum that comes from impedance mid with the sensitive Utopia’s. No hiss/hum with the HD800S phones.


----------



## turbofeet

The Melz are in. Can't really hear too well with the kids watching TV but first impressions are nice and sweet.


----------



## JTbbb

turbofeet said:


> The Melz are in. Can't really hear too well with the kids watching TV but first impressions are nice and sweet.


I liked the Melz. But ultimately, for my ears, liked others better.


----------



## turbofeet

JTbbb said:


> I liked the Melz. But ultimately, for my ears, liked others better.


I'll have a proper listen later


----------



## ColSaulTigh

JTbbb said:


> I liked the Melz. But ultimately, for my ears, liked others better.





turbofeet said:


> I'll have a proper listen later


The Melz are incredibly clean, crisp, and weighty as drivers.  They add very little color.  If you're pairing them with Elrogs (especially the Mo's), you're going to get as close to dead-neutral and VERY clean sound as you can get with tubes.  This tube combination is for those who prefer the analytical side of listening (some say this gets fatiguing).

Personally, this is the exact tube setup I'm currently running while I evaluate my Calderas.  Once I've finished my evaluation, I'll probably swap back in my Tung Sol BGRP 6F8Gs for some warmth and wetness.

Anyone looking to offload Melz should have no problem getting top dollar for a proper set - they're getting rarer than hen's teeth these days...


----------



## ThanatosVI

Did someone ever try Schiit LISST in their Envy?


----------



## turbofeet

ColSaulTigh said:


> The Melz are incredibly clean, crisp, and weighty as drivers.  They add very little color.  If you're pairing them with Elrogs (especially the Mo's), you're going to get as close to dead-neutral and VERY clean sound as you can get with tubes.  This tube combination is for those who prefer the analytical side of listening (some say this gets fatiguing).
> 
> Personally, this is the exact tube setup I'm currently running while I evaluate my Calderas.  Once I've finished my evaluation, I'll probably swap back in my Tung Sol BGRP 6F8Gs for some warmth and wetness.
> 
> Anyone looking to offload Melz should have no problem getting top dollar for a proper set - they're getting rarer than hen's teeth these days...


I hear some crackling on warm up. Is this normal? Do they require burn in?

Pins look good. 

I didn't listen to them warm up earlier but left them 15 minutes. Sounded lovely.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

turbofeet said:


> I hear some crackling on warm up. Is this normal? Do they require burn in?
> 
> Pins look good.
> 
> I didn't listen to them warm up earlier but left them 15 minutes. Sounded lovely.


Depends on how old they are and how badly they were originally manufactured.  Melz are infamous for needing the solder in the pins reflowed.  It's a fairly easy fix and will quiet all but the most stubborn down.

Theoretically, no, they shouldn't S/C/P on startup.


----------



## turbofeet

OK thanks.
I think I'll find someone in the UK that can perform that service. They can properly test them as well at the same time.
They sound superb. Even meatier.


----------



## Somatic

turbofeet said:


> OK thanks.
> I think I'll find someone in the UK that can perform that service. They can properly test them as well at the same time.
> They sound superb. Even meatier.


How do you find someone to do this? What are you searching for? A vintage hifi shop?

Also, my Melz are dead quiet.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

turbofeet said:


> OK thanks.
> I think I'll find someone in the UK that can perform that service. They can properly test them as well at the same time.
> They sound superb. Even meatier.


If you have a soldering iron you can do it yourself.  I posted a video a few pages back.  It's fairly easy.


----------



## turbofeet

Google is my friend. I've already sent a couple of emails out.

More often than not these guys repair valve amps for guitars so that's a good search.

Of course if anyone has any ideas then feel free to let me know 😉

I have read tapping them on the side can resolve the issue too but I'm a little worried about doing that.

I figure that it might be nice to have someone test them as well to see how well they match. They are brand new but made when I was very small.


----------



## nwavesailor (Dec 28, 2022)

Somatic said:


> How do you find someone to do this? What are you searching for? A vintage hifi shop?
> 
> Also, my Melz are dead quiet.


This is your opportunity to buy a soldering station and heat up the pins of your 1950's vintage $500+ tubes!!!
What could possibly go wrong?


----------



## turbofeet

ColSaulTigh said:


> If you have a soldering iron you can do it yourself.  I posted a video a few pages back.  It's fairly easy.


Yes I did see that. I have a colleague at work who may well be capable but as mentioned it might be nice to get them tested as well.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

turbofeet said:


> Google is my friend. I've already sent a couple of emails out.
> 
> More often than not these guys repair valve amps for guitars so that's a good search.
> 
> ...


Light tapping will tell you if you have a buddy tube that's mechanical in nature (loose filament, etc), but won't really fix anything.  Reflowing solder helps a lot of tubes.  If you're not handy with a soldering iron, I'm sure someone can redo them for you.  You can save a lot of tubes with that simple trick.


----------



## turbofeet

I just put them back in and listened to the warm up process through the headphones with no music playing.

They're silent initially and as they warm up there is a faint hiss that comes and goes in the right channel only after a minute or two. It's very quiet and then after 5mins they are both completely silent.

At 10 minutes I have started to enjoy some tunes. They are very resolving yes but the low end hits harder than before which is right up my street.

I wonder if I didn't seat them properly in the socket savers and this is the normal warm up process I should have experienced. 

Certainly no clicking.

May still get them checked out but I think I'm OK. 👌


----------



## turbofeet

How good this sounds...

Long Distance Call by Muddy Waters on Qobuz https://open.qobuz.com/track/25849476


----------



## moosemp (Dec 29, 2022)

Ehhhh…I finished my work for this year and will stay home until January 1st 2023. 4 silent days I hope, at home with my wife and cats….time to listen 🎶😻😻😎
I can say Accuphase cd 560 player directly to ENVY makes magic with ZMF Verite open.  I compared it with files from computer/Dave/MSCALER on the same cds and I completely enjoy good old cds. Maybe I need to upgrade with streamer and file transport?
Later on. Now back to music.

in more than 1 year we carried this thread on and on and I am postivive we gained a lot of knowledge on ENVY, and we can have great pleasure listening to it , but also we can address and solve some issues.

I wish you all happy New YEAR, paceful, healthy and better in every respect than 2022🍾🍾🐈🐈🏋🏼‍♂️🏋🏼‍♂️


----------



## genefruit

A little nugget I learned today, as confirmed by Lukasz, the preamp output signal passes through the output of the 6SN7 and the 300b.


----------



## JTbbb

genefruit said:


> A little nugget I learned today, as confirmed by Lukasz, the preamp output signal passes through the output of the 6SN7 and the 300b.


So what does that mean?


----------



## ThanatosVI

JTbbb said:


> So what does that mean?


That even if you use it as a preamp for other amps the 300B tubes will effect the sound


----------



## incredulousity

genefruit said:


> A little nugget I learned today, as confirmed by Lukasz, the preamp output signal passes through the output of the 6SN7 and the 300b.


Cool to have it verified, but it's pretty obvious when you listen to it, and roll 300B tubes.


----------



## genefruit

incredulousity said:


> Cool to have it verified, but it's pretty obvious when you listen to it, and roll 300B tubes.


Fair, and I suppose I should have asked here.  As someone who doesn't own one and is considering what options are in the space, knowing this certainly increases the appeal of the Envy.


----------



## incredulousity

I totally agree, and the differences are readily apparent even on my lowly Audioengine HD6 speakers.


----------



## paradoxper

ColSaulTigh said:


> The Melz are incredibly clean, crisp, and weighty as drivers.  They add very little color.  If you're pairing them with Elrogs (especially the Mo's), you're going to get as close to dead-neutral and VERY clean sound as you can get with tubes.  This tube combination is for those who prefer the analytical side of listening (some say this gets fatiguing).
> 
> Personally, this is the exact tube setup I'm currently running while I evaluate my Calderas.  Once I've finished my evaluation, I'll probably swap back in my Tung Sol BGRP 6F8Gs for some warmth and wetness.
> 
> Anyone looking to offload Melz should have no problem getting top dollar for a proper set - they're getting rarer than hen's teeth these days...


Insight on steroids is what the MELZ and Mo offer. Although I have a feeling I won't like this pairing with the JAR800 which i plan to give the TM300B treatment.


----------



## nwavesailor

paradoxper said:


> Insight on steroids is what the MELZ and Mo offer. Although I have a feeling I won't like this pairing with the JAR800 which i plan to give the TM300B treatment.


'I think I'll use my _TM300B _that you low life mere mortals may NEVER experience!'


----------



## paradoxper

nwavesailor said:


> 'I think I'll use my _TM300B _that you low life mere mortals may NEVER experience!'


It sprinkled in the counter of MELZ/Mo could work especially with a notoriously fickle driver such as HD800.


----------



## 1Audiophool

Just in time for New Year’s!!!…








Took forever to get here but man are they cleeeean!!! Just immaculate!! 
Don’t know how they sound yet…probably won’t till after New Year’s.


----------



## zen87192

Happy New Year to all on HeadFi! May 2023 bring you Good Health,  Good Fortune and very Happy Listening 🎧 🎶


----------



## Somatic

zen87192 said:


> Happy New Year to all on HeadFi! May 2023 bring you Good Health,  Good Fortune and very Happy Listening 🎧 🎶


May we all reach music nirvana. At least for a moment. Hehe


----------



## turbofeet

Be satisfied this year. Be happy.

"It is lovely...it is good enough...it cannot possibly be better. I should stop now"

I jest of course.  Happy new year crazy tube rollers. 😜


----------



## nwavesailor

turbofeet said:


> Be satisfied this year. Be happy.
> 
> "It is lovely...it is good enough...it cannot possibly be better. I should stop now"
> 
> I jest of course.  Happy new year crazy tube rollers. 😜


What is this ‘it can not POSSIBLY get better’ you speak of????

My GF just reminded me I told her that 2 amps and countless tubes ago!😵‍💫


----------



## ColSaulTigh

nwavesailor said:


> What is this ‘it can not POSSIBLY get better’ you speak of????
> 
> My GF just reminded me I told her that 2 amps and countless tubes ago!😵‍💫


Girlfriends, like tubes, should be swapped out every so often...

[*ducks*]


----------



## nwavesailor

Well, she is a crazy fit marathon runner that keeps ME moving!

On XC ski trails, long hikes  or snowshoeing I KNOW I wouldn’t be moving as fast doing the activity by myself!!!!


----------



## normie610

ColSaulTigh said:


> Girlfriends, like tubes, should be swapped out every so often...
> 
> [*ducks*]


What if you have a girlfriend who's the equivalent of Elrogs in tubes??


----------



## ColSaulTigh

normie610 said:


> What if you have a girlfriend who's the equivalent of Elrogs in tubes??


That's wife material.  Marry her.


----------



## Somatic

Mmmmm. WE300B with Melz 1578. After the WE300B burned in more it lost that raw sound and it more balanced. Not overly mid forward. Wide soundstage, vocals are amazing. Liking the combo for rock and hip hop.

Now I am working on burning in the Elrog MO. Really want to pair it with the 6F8G but still waiting for my replacement.

How long until the Elrog MO burns in? What should I expect to change?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Somatic said:


> Mmmmm. WE300B with Melz 1578. After the WE300B burned in more it lost that raw sound and it more balanced. Not overly mid forward. Wide soundstage, vocals are amazing. Liking the combo for rock and hip hop.
> 
> Now I am working on burning in the Elrog MO. Really want to pair it with the 6F8G but still waiting for my replacement.
> 
> How long until the Elrog MO burns in? What should I expect to change?


50-100 hours.

They start out a bit harsh and calm down and become both sweet and bold.  I run them with my Melz for any analytical listening.


----------



## Somatic

ColSaulTigh said:


> 50-100 hours.
> 
> They start out a bit harsh and calm down and become both sweet and bold.  I run them with my Melz for any analytical listening.


Any plans to get the ERs? Very curious to hear your thoughts. They seem comparable. ERs have a nice midrange.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Somatic said:


> Any plans to get the ERs? Very curious to hear your thoughts. They seem comparable. ERs have a nice midrange.


Eventually, but I have other priorities right now.  I think @paradoxper has both and can chime in...


----------



## incredulousity (Jan 1, 2023)

Somatic said:


> Mmmmm. WE300B with Melz 1578. After the WE300B burned in more it lost that raw sound and it more balanced. Not overly mid forward. Wide soundstage, vocals are amazing. Liking the combo for rock and hip hop.
> 
> Now I am working on burning in the Elrog MO. Really want to pair it with the 6F8G but still waiting for my replacement.
> 
> How long until the Elrog MO burns in? What should I expect to change?


75-125 hours for me.

I have both sets of Elrogs too. Midrange is more wet than the Mo, but generally the tuning is more similar between them than to other non Elrog tubes.

I have ER and Melz in right now 

Also doing mean things to my computer and May with HQ Player.


----------



## paradoxper

ColSaulTigh said:


> Eventually, but I have other priorities right now.  I think @paradoxper has both and can chime in...


He knows my thoughts but needs to also consider his headphone complement and source.


----------



## Somatic

Sending the Envy for diagnostic etc. Upscale will fix the slight transformer hum and look into the distortion issue when volume knob is above 10 o'clock on all gain settings. 

I will have to live with my desktop speakers and Dave HP out for the time being.

Wasting valuable time when the tubes could have been burning in. 

Plan to send it out next week. I will miss thee, so sweet. hehe


----------



## jonathan c

Was it you that experienced the delivery of a non-SE Envy when an SE Envy was ordered?


----------



## nwavesailor

I believe that was @incredulousity


----------



## jonathan c

Thank you. Perhaps one day I will take _the 300B train…._It is unnerving to read about the ‘hiccups’ pertaining to the amps & tubes….at their price levels….🤔😕….


----------



## incredulousity

jonathan c said:


> Was it you that experienced the delivery of a non-SE Envy when an SE Envy was ordered?


I received the standard version, when I had ordered and paid for the Performance version. The problem was remedied without hassle, but there was a delay, as they did not have the correct amp in stock.


----------



## Somatic (Jan 2, 2023)

My issue is very minor and they are looking into it. I wouldn’t let it deter you.

They make the Susvara sing. I wouldn’t want to go back to any other amp.

Selling the Atriums now as the suped up Susvara makes them redundant to my ear.


----------



## nwavesailor

Somatic said:


> Selling the Atriums now as the super up Susvara makes them redundant to my ear.



Yup, the Sus sound amazing with the Envy. 
I'm close to letting my LCD-5 go and just use the Sus......it is indeed THAT good with the ER or MO Elrogs and any of a number of drivers!


----------



## incredulousity

Looks like Schiit Lisst tomorrow, and WE300B Thursday. That should be an interesting contrast.


----------



## Somatic

https://open.qobuz.com/track/161540209

Listening to Elrog MO and Ken Rad VT231 Black Glass with Susvara. Not feeling the Kenrads too much. Seems to diminish what the MO is capable of.

Was listening to this song at 1:29 you can hear the snare wires rattling. It's subtle. That's pretty cool as someone that plays drums.


----------



## Somatic (Jan 4, 2023)

incredulousity said:


> Looks like Schiit Lisst tomorrow, and WE300B Thursday. That should be an interesting contrast.


Hmm. Interesting I would assume the LISST would sound worse than NOS tubes but would be fun to listen to. Could be a good way to compare power tubes.

What is happening on Thursday, WE300B? Thanks.

Edit: Oh sorry. Are you listening to LISST today and WE300B on Thursday? Confused. Thanks.
Edit2: Can you use LISST with the Envy. I know Schiit doesnt want you to use with other products in case of damage but can't it work?


----------



## incredulousity

Actually will pick up Lisst at post office this afternoon. UPS should deliver WE300B today too. Will try one or the other this evening, time permitting. 

Schiit posts a disclaimer because they have not tested with other amps. The tubes may or may not work on Envy. I will use external power for the heaters, just in case, to minimize risk. They say that they are 6SN7 compatible, and the amp for which they are designed specifies 6SN7 when using real tubes. I’m not worried. They may sound awful, or not. We shall see. If they work, they may be useful for burning in 300B tubes like the WE, on which I will “need” to put on about another 400 hours for burn in, without having to wear out my nice driver tubes. I have very little expectation that they will sound impressive or interesting enough to use a lot otherwise, but perhaps I will be pleasantly surprised.


----------



## WATASHIWA

How does the Envy Susvara combo compare to a Power Amp, i am using a Cambridge Edge A (100 W QMW an 8 Ohm; 200 W QMW an 4 Ohm) and it sounds amazing already, with around 40% on the Volume i have a very powerful sound and thinking what the Envy can get out more of the Susvara? Would love to know what a proper Headphone Amp can do more, thanks


----------



## zen87192

Feliks Envy with Susvara is awesome. Tube rolling will also either help shape your sound requirements or indeed improve them - or both. I barely dial past the 9 o'clock position - in high gain position - which offers more than enough volume. Very powerful, very commanding.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Looks like we have our first victim of buyer's remorse offloading their Envy in the classified section.  So if you're looking for a deal - go get it!

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/feliks-audio-envy-mint-condition.38771/


----------



## Somatic

It’s a bad ass amp. I would get it. You can get new with a deal if you play your cards right.


----------



## incredulousity

Someone needs to buy that thing. 

Now…  The tube fairy came today!

First, immaculate Melz 1578 from our friend in Ukraine:









Then, this Schiit:





And then, the recent used set with 100 hours of WE300B. 








One thing at a time. Lisst straight out of the box sound better than most new tubes do. Big soundstage. Not super impressive bass and treble, but noticeable improvement after 10 minutes. Very encouraging. There is a quiet background hiss with my very sensitive and low impedance Meze Elites. Will try other phones later.

I’ll test the other tubes in the coming days. The Melz look better than the ones I already have. The WE300B are basically new. The guy had purchased them from Woo, so I did not expect the wooden box, and was pleasantly surprised.


----------



## Somatic

incredulousity said:


> Someone needs to buy that thing.
> 
> Now…  The tube fairy came today!
> 
> ...


Nice! Curious on what you think of the WE300B. I’m not fully burned in but liking them a lot. Much different than the MO. I like them for Rock and Hiphop.


----------



## ThanatosVI

ColSaulTigh said:


> Looks like we have our first victim of buyer's remorse offloading their Envy in the classified section.  So if you're looking for a deal - go get it!
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/feliks-audio-envy-mint-condition.38771/


Since most dealers don't offer deals on the Envy, the resale value is quite high.

Still looking forward to mine



incredulousity said:


> Someone needs to buy that thing.
> 
> Now…  The tube fairy came today!
> 
> ...


Looking forward to more impressions,  in particular of the LISST


----------



## Newsee

ThanatosVI said:


> Since most dealers don't offer deals on the Envy, the resale value is quite high.


Not to mention the 1-2 months waiting time for new orders.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Newsee said:


> Not to mention the 1-2 months waiting time for new orders.


I think it's longer now.
Christmas probably lengthened the queue


----------



## zen87192 (Jan 5, 2023)

Waiting time for the Envy in the UK is now 1.5-2 months for the Oak and 2-2.5 months for the Walnut


----------



## ThanatosVI

Just goes to show how insanely popular the amp is.
They receive multiples of the order quantity they expected.


----------



## incredulousity

Somatic said:


> Nice! Curious on what you think of the WE300B. I’m not fully burned in but liking them a lot. Much different than the MO. I like them for Rock and Hiphop.


They take longer to warm up than do the Elrogs. The midrange is beautiful, and a little rolled on both ends, but less than I expected. A better pairing with Lisst than Elrog ER. After 100 hours with Lisst, I’ll put in my Melz, and have a more complete opinion.


----------



## ThanatosVI

incredulousity said:


> They take longer to warm up than do the Elrogs. The midrange is beautiful, and a little rolled on both ends, but less than I expected. A better pairing with Lisst than Elrog ER. After 100 hours with Lisst, I’ll put in my Melz, and have a more complete opinion.


Do both combinations(ER ans WE) together with LISST exhibit the background noise on the Meze?


----------



## Somatic

incredulousity said:


> Actually will pick up Lisst at post office this afternoon. UPS should deliver WE300B today too. Will try one or the other this evening, time permitting.
> 
> Schiit posts a disclaimer because they have not tested with other amps. The tubes may or may not work on Envy. I will use external power for the heaters, just in case, to minimize risk. They say that they are 6SN7 compatible, and the amp for which they are designed specifies 6SN7 when using real tubes. I’m not worried. They may sound awful, or not. We shall see. If they work, they may be useful for burning in 300B tubes like the WE, on which I will “need” to put on about another 400 hours for burn in, without having to wear out my nice driver tubes. I have very little expectation that they will sound impressive or interesting enough to use a lot otherwise, but perhaps I will be pleasantly surprised.


Are you still using the external power for the LISST or just using them as is? I don't expect any issues. Thanks.


----------



## Somatic

incredulousity said:


> They take longer to warm up than do the Elrogs. The midrange is beautiful, and a little rolled on both ends, but less than I expected. A better pairing with Lisst than Elrog ER. After 100 hours with Lisst, I’ll put in my Melz, and have a more complete opinion.


They are not bad at all. I love them for Rock and HipHop.


----------



## jonathan c

ThanatosVI said:


> I think it's longer now.
> Christmas probably lengthened the queue_ueueue_


FTFY…[Reg. TM; © bcowen: 2021.]


----------



## incredulousity

ThanatosVI said:


> Do both combinations(ER ans WE) together with LISST exhibit the background noise on the Meze?


Yes


----------



## incredulousity

Somatic said:


> Are you still using the external power for the LISST or just using them as is? I don't expect any issues. Thanks.


Using them as is. Actually decided not to use external power initially. They don’t get very warm, compared to hotter tubes.


----------



## Somatic

incredulousity said:


> Using them as is. Actually decided not to use external power initially. They don’t get very warm, compared to hotter tubes.


Coolio. Once you put in a bunch of hours, curious on your thoughts with different power tubes. Might order some as well. Thanks.


----------



## Somatic

Anyone liking the LCD5 with the Envy? Wondering if it gets too shouty? I remember they sounded amazing for Rock. Although Susvara is no slouch anymore with Envy and upgraded tubes.


----------



## Somatic

Anyone powering sensitive speakers directly with the Envy?


----------



## WATASHIWA

Enleum 23r or Envy ??


----------



## Foxman50

WATASHIWA said:


> Enleum 23r or Envy ??


Envy without hesitation. Had the Bakoon 13r now Envy


----------



## Somatic

Tung-Sol 6J5GT. Great sounding tubes. Very dynamic. Amazing, eerie vocals. Excellent slam. Favorite pair with the MOs so far. 

Planning to buy the nicer looking adapters from Deyan.


----------



## turbofeet

Somatic said:


> Tung-Sol 6J5GT. Great sounding tubes. Very dynamic. Amazing, eerie vocals. Excellent slam. Favorite pair with the MOs so far.
> 
> Planning to buy the nicer looking adapters from Deyan.


Nicer than Melz?

I loved the low end heft on the Melz which came with even more detail too while still being very natural and smooth. Melz was just to my tastes. Sounds like you're a bass head too so curious on your thoughts on different tubes.

I sent the Melz to be tested (would be nice to know how well they match) and potentially have one of them to be resoldered as there was still a little crackling on start up. The second is perfect.

Only listened for a few hours but I really want them to come back soon. 😢


----------



## jonathan c

Somatic said:


> Tung-Sol 6J5GT. Great sounding tubes. Very dynamic. Amazing, eerie vocals. Excellent slam. Favorite pair with the MOs so far.
> 
> Planning to buy the nicer looking adapters from Deyan.


Those TS 6J5GT sound terrific in lieu of 6SN7 in ‘lowly’ Schiit Lyr 3 ☑️.


----------



## Somatic

turbofeet said:


> Nicer than Melz?
> 
> I loved the low end heft on the Melz which came with even more detail too while still being very natural and smooth. Melz was just to my tastes. Sounds like you're a bass head too so curious on your thoughts on different tubes.
> 
> ...


Hard to A/B but these sound bassier. More authorative. Great note weight and have some of that TUNG-SOL VT99 6f8g Round Plates magic.

They are cleaner sounding similar to Melz. I think midrange is meatier and more forward. 

I like my 70s Melz. Guess they are bassier.

I'm just surprised im still listening to the same Susvara with the Envy. This setup and tubes I would imagine to be too much with the SolP but not sure. hahaha


----------



## nwavesailor (Jan 5, 2023)

I don’t think I’ve heard a TS that I didn’t like. I haven’t heard the 6J5GT but love the 6J5G ST’s

Should have Deyan’s adapters in a day or 2.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

I actually like the look of xulingmrs adapters.  I've only seen Deyen's 6J5 adapters in photos.  Something pleasing about the rounded ends to me.  I dunno.

As for the Tung Sol 6J5GT's, does anyone know if they were made by/if they made the Ken Rads?  They look identical, but I don't have any (yet) to compare.

I do like the sound of the 6J5GT, but mine are a bit microphonic and don't quite have the midrange sweetness of the Melz.  But it's close.  They're probably 3rd on my ranking (Melz, TS 6F8G, 6J5GT)...IMO, YMMV


----------



## nwavesailor

I have Mrs X adapters. They are low profile and look nice. I was hesitant to snag Deyan’s and saw them as a bit ‘blocky’ until I saw a recent picture and the black looked good with the trim on the Envy. They may also be point to point wiring w/o a PCB.

Frankly, Mrs X hold up pretty well over time, but with all the 6J5G rolling I do I could see a solder joint on the octal socket or PCB failing. It will also be nice to have 2 sets of adapters to more easily go from tubes X to Y!


----------



## Somatic

nwavesailor said:


> I have Mrs X adapters. They are low profile and look nice. I was hesitant to snag Deyan’s and saw them as a bit ‘blocky’ until I saw a recent picture and the black looked good with the trim on the Envy. They may also be point to point wiring w/o a PCB.
> 
> Frankly, Mrs X hold up pretty well over time, but with all the 6J5G rolling I do I could see a solder joint on the octal socket or PCB failing. It will also be nice to have 2 sets of adapters to more easily go from tubes X to Y!


With Mrs X new adapter. Do you find the bolt to get in the way of the tube being seated completely flush?


----------



## Somatic

ColSaulTigh said:


> I actually like the look of xulingmrs adapters.  I've only seen Deyen's 6J5 adapters in photos.  Something pleasing about the rounded ends to me.  I dunno.
> 
> As for the Tung Sol 6J5GT's, does anyone know if they were made by/if they made the Ken Rads?  They look identical, but I don't have any (yet) to compare.
> 
> I do like the sound of the 6J5GT, but mine are a bit microphonic and don't quite have the midrange sweetness of the Melz.  But it's close.  They're probably 3rd on my ranking (Melz, TS 6F8G, 6J5GT)...IMO, YMMV


They are not ugly. I wish Deyan can do this new pcb with rounded edges in black. I guess I can mod myself though…


----------



## nwavesailor

I don't think ColSaulTigh or I called them 'ugly' just a bit blocky. I wouldn't be surprised to find them to be a better made adapter than the ones from China. Either way, I'll have 2 sets with quads of 6J5G ready to go!

As far as your TS not fully seating with the fasteners, the TS metal base must be a bit larger diameter. None of my 6J5G touch any of those metal fasteners.


----------



## JTbbb

This is what happens when someone mentions a 6J5 thread! A quad of Brimars and Tungsol 6J5GT’s are also on their way! Jeez! Please, no more tube variants 😀.


----------



## turbofeet

JTbbb said:


> This is what happens when someone mentions a 6J5 thread! A quad of Brimars and Tungsol 6J5GT’s are also on their way! Jeez! Please, no more tube variants 😀.


haha. How is that combo you have pictured there?


----------



## Somatic

Today testing the Quad KEN-RAD JAN-6J5GT I got from @ColSaulTigh. Thanks.

So far they seem very neutral. Less dynamics, slam than the TS variant. Mids aren't as forward. Reminds me of a good SS.

Will let them burn in before I make impressions.

Edit: Power tube used MO.


----------



## JTbbb

turbofeet said:


> haha. How is that combo you have pictured there?


I like very much. But then again, I’m easily satisfied! If referring to the amp combo? This much modified Crack does not disgrace itself in such exalted company! And one day I’m hoping to get a Sus, or something of that ilk, to really give the Envy something to drive.


----------



## moosemp

JTbbb said:


> This is what happens when someone mentions a 6J5 thread! A quad of Brimars and Tungsol 6J5GT’s are also on their way! Jeez! Please, no more tube variants 😀.


Wow! what are your adapters for6j5 and what device is on The right?  I guess I missed something


----------



## JTbbb

moosemp said:


> Wow! what are your adapters for6j5 and what device is on The right?  I guess I missed something


The adapters are from Deyan, who resides on this forum. The amp on the right is a Bottlehead Crack which you build from a kit. This one has had some fairly serious mods, and wasn’t built by me!


----------



## WATASHIWA

Foxman50 said:


> Envy without hesitation. Had the Bakoon 13r now Envy


should i go with the performance edition? worth the money?


----------



## Somatic

WATASHIWA said:


> should i go with the performance edition? worth the money?


@incredulousity knows best


----------



## Somatic

I went standard as I expect the the performance delta to be small. If they uses silver instead I would have went with performance.


----------



## incredulousity

I went performance for the initially better tubes, but then rolled 300Bs sooner than anticipated. Since they initially sent me the wrong amp, and I had other tubes, I was able to test both with same tubes a few days apart. Difference in this was pretty small, slightly favoring performance, but not at all earth-shattering or important. Tuning difference might be detectable in a direct A:B, but in this audio memory was obviously a limiting factor.


----------



## moosemp

JTbbb said:


> The adapters are from Deyan, who resides on this forum. The amp on the right is a Bottlehead Crack which you build from a kit. This one has had some fairly serious mods, and wasn’t built by me!


Thanks. I am more and more convinced that 6j5 are The way to go


----------



## alekc

WATASHIWA said:


> should i go with the performance edition? worth the money?


@WATASHIWA  IMHO if you can afford Envy it makes sense to get Performance edition but not because of better stock tubes since eventually you will want to roll them anyway. The soud difference will not be nigth and day but you will have always doubt have you done right, especially when pairing with Susvara: maybe the Performence edition sounds even better and then even slightest difference will matter.


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## arthurito

alekc said:


> @WATASHIWA  IMHO if you can afford Envy it makes sense to get Performance edition but not because of better stock tubes since eventually you will want to roll them anyway. The soud difference will not be nigth and day but you will have always doubt have you done right, especially when pairing with Susvara: maybe the Performence edition sounds even better and then even slightest difference will matter.


I agree, occ copper has a slight edge! And the Performance badge is worth it


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## ThanatosVI

alekc said:


> @WATASHIWA  IMHO if you can afford Envy it makes sense to get Performance edition but not because of better stock tubes since eventually you will want to roll them anyway. The soud difference will not be nigth and day but you will have always doubt have you done right, especially when pairing with Susvara: maybe the Performence edition sounds even better and then even slightest difference will matter.


I went for the performance Edition myself for similar reason.
Tubes can be switched later but the wires are fixed.

At the old Premium of 500€ extra it seemed a no brainer but at 800€ for the switch from one copper wire to a better one, this is actually a hard decision.


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## 1Audiophool

Just in time for the weekend. 🤘🤘


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## incredulousity

Moar Quantumness!

Needs 12-24 hours, but doesn’t suck out of the box.


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## arthurito

ThanatosVI said:


> I went for the performance Edition myself for similar reason.
> Tubes can be switched later but the wires are fixed.
> 
> At the old Premium of 500€ extra it seemed a no brainer but at 800€ for the switch from one copper wire to a better one, this is actually a hard decision.


You could ask to buy without tubes, those press harder on the bill I guess. Then again, people buy single cables for more than 800€


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## incredulousity

I couldn’t get Upscale to sell it to me without tubes. YMMV.


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## ThanatosVI

incredulousity said:


> I couldn’t get Upscale to sell it to me without tubes. YMMV.


In germany this is no problem. 
Even if you say, only driver tubes but no power tubes or specific stuff like that


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## nwavesailor

Upscale is the North America distributor AND a retailer so they control every aspect from import to final sale at full retail to me as a presale.
 I was shocked when I couldnt get a minimal 10% off retail. They said it was an agreement with Feliks


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## JTbbb

ThanatosVI said:


> In germany this is no problem.
> Even if you say, only driver tubes but no power tubes or specific stuff like that


Here in the uk it was no problem tubeless.


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## incredulousity

nwavesailor said:


> Upscale is the North America distributor AND a retailer so they control every aspect from import to final sale at full retail to me as a presale.
> I was shocked when I couldnt get a minimal 10% off retail. They said it was an agreement with Feliks


That’s what they told me too.


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## WATASHIWA

alekc said:


> @WATASHIWA  IMHO if you can afford Envy it makes sense to get Performance edition but not because of better stock tubes since eventually you will want to roll them anyway. The soud difference will not be nigth and day but you will have always doubt have you done right, especially when pairing with Susvara: maybe the Performence edition sounds even better and then even slightest difference will matter.


thanks, yeah sounds right, go big or go home  thats the reason why i got the Susvara, i knew going to HE1000SE i would ask myself always how the Susvara will sound


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## zen87192 (Jan 7, 2023)

Those Meltz 1578 Tubes have almost doubled in price since we all discussed them not so long ago. Now going at £249/$301 each. Wow!


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## ColSaulTigh

zen87192 said:


> Those Meltz 1578 Tubes have doubled in price since we all discussed them not so long ago. Now going at £249/$301 each. Wow!


From who?


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## jonathan c

ColSaulTigh said:


> From who?


Russia Minister of Foreign Affairs: Sergei Lavrov….? 🤔


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## zen87192

ColSaulTigh said:


> From who?


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394410682773


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## jonathan c

Two years ago, I was purchasing Melz 6N8S of 1959 vintage for $275 per pair.


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## ColSaulTigh

zen87192 said:


> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394410682773


That's not a 1578.  It's a 6N8S from the 70's.  Close, but definitely NOT worth $300 each....


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## zen87192 (Sunday at 3:41 AM)

ColSaulTigh said:


> That's not a 1578.  It's a 6N8S from the 70's.  Close, but definitely NOT worth $300 each....


😳 How misleading... Meltz Tube newbies like me can get a bit confused when descriptions like this are shown.


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## ColSaulTigh

zen87192 said:


> 😳 How misleading... Tube newbies like me can get a bit confused when descriptions like this are shown.


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## ColSaulTigh

ColSaulTigh said:


> That's not a 1578.  It's a 6N8S from the 70's.  Close, but definitely NOT worth $300 each....


Let me rephrase.  The picture is a Melz 1578 (from what I can see), but the data sheets call it out as a 6N8S, plus it's from the 70's.  I THINK it's a 6N8S and not a true 1578.


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## paradoxper

jonathan c said:


> Two years ago, I was purchasing Melz 6N8S of 1959 vintage for $275 per pair.


At least I know my investments are going up.


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## normie610

paradoxper said:


> At least I know my investments are going up.


It’s your purchases that drove the price up 😂


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## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> It’s your purchases that drove the price up 😂


I may blame war but you have a point.

To be fair, I sold over ten pairs to support the Head-Fi community.


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## incredulousity (Sunday at 1:02 AM)

paradoxper said:


> I may blame war but you have a point.
> 
> To be fair, I sold over ten pairs to support the Head-Fi community.


I for one welcome our Melz market-cornering overlord.

The pair I bought from you is my favorite driver set, of increasingly too many.


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## 1Audiophool

Still keeping my eye out for a pair. 🤞 I got a used pair but one of them has started having issues… pops and static that comes and goes.


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## incredulousity

Reflow the pins. It is a fixable problem. @ColSaulTigh posted a video somewhere above, or perhaps in one of the other 300B or 6SN7 threads.


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## turbofeet (Sunday at 3:48 AM)

1Audiophool said:


> Still keeping my eye out for a pair. 🤞 I got a used pair but one of them has started having issues… pops and static that comes and goes.


I had a few pops and crackles from one of mine still so I sent mine to be re-soldered. Should get them back early next week.

It's common with the Melz it seems bit can be fixed.

Cleaning the pins with a fibreglass pen can be a potential quick fix as well.


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## zen87192 (Sunday at 9:05 AM)

incredulousity said:


> No, but coincidentally, I just ordered some.


Hi incredulousity,
Have you received your Brimar 6J5G Tubes for your Envy yet?
If so, have you had the chance to listen and compare to anything?
Please enlighten me as to their performance.
Regards to you and a belated Happy New Year!


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## zen87192

6J5G L63 CV1932 TUNGSRAM BLACK BASE KB/T NOS VALVE TUBE
vs
6J5G L63 BRIMAR NOS VALVE TUBE

Anyone have listening experience with these two versions please?


----------



## incredulousity

zen87192 said:


> Hi incredulousity,
> Have you received your Brimar 6J5G Tubes for your Envy yet?
> If so, have you had the chance to listen and compare to anything?
> Please enlighten me as to their performance.
> Regards to you and a belated Happy New Year!


Not yet. Langrex has shipped, but I’ve not received them. I also don’t have tracking numbers, but have requested them.


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## Somatic (Monday at 4:38 PM)

Ok I think I'm a 6F8G fan boy. Also 6J5.

Got some NOS Sylvania VT-99 6F6G. They are burning in as we speak but damn they are bass monsters. They sound darker in the treble a bit (rolled off maybe) which allows me to crank them up a bit more than my other tubes increasing the bass output. Mids sound good. Nothing amazing but good.

They might be good for electronic music.

Using WE300B right now. Got to try them with the MO and ER. 

Edit: Got to let them burn in. Can sound sibilant at times.


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## nwavesailor

You may find, when you have your pair of your TS 6F8G back, that they sound even better than the Sylvania’s.


----------



## nwavesailor

The Sylvania’s can be had for less $ but the TS command their higher cost for a good reason!


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## Somatic

nwavesailor said:


> The Sylvania’s can be had for less $ but the TS command their higher cost for a good reason!


Yes, got the replacement TS back with the pair of Sylvania. Will compare shortly. From memory the TS were much better. But these Sylvania are no slouch for some genres. I will know better once it burns in.


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## nwavesailor

My pair of Deyan's 6J5G adapters arrived today and look really nice with the black trim of the Envy.
They are wired point to point and these should hold up very well over time. 
Glad I _finally_ tried one of Deyan's creations!


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## turbofeet

My Melz are back and completely silent now after being re-soldered. One little ping from the Elrogs as they warmed up. Not a peep from the Melz.

Just perfect! 

...so now why am I wondering how well they might pair with Elrog MO's haha.


----------



## Somatic

turbofeet said:


> My Melz are back and completely silent now after being re-soldered. One little ping from the Elrogs as they warmed up. Not a peep from the Melz.
> 
> Just perfect!
> 
> ...so now why am I wondering how well they might pair with Elrog MO's haha.


Who did it for you?


----------



## turbofeet

This fellow in the UK:

https://tubedistinctions.co.uk/


----------



## ThanatosVI

turbofeet said:


> This fellow in the UK:
> 
> https://tubedistinctions.co.uk/


I bookmarked this
Damn that site is dangerous!


----------



## paradoxper

ThanatosVI said:


> I bookmarked this
> Damn that site is dangerous!


Yea, they have the PX4 I've been looking for. 

Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Somatic (Tuesday at 1:08 PM)

Can we use 12au7 with an adapter? They look so cool! hahaha


----------



## psklrdk

Somatic said:


> Also, damn this Envy is powerful. Both Susvara in High Gain and Atriums in Low gain.


Should it not be the opposite ?


----------



## Somatic

psklrdk said:


> Should it not be the opposite ?


They mentioned the impedance switch is more like a gain setting. Susvara uses High gain. Most sensitive headphones use low gain.


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## ColSaulTigh

Somatic said:


> Can we use 12au7 with an adapter? They look so cool! hahaha


That's not a 12AU7, that's the USAF "Mighty" 596 rectifier, and it's a replacement (with adapters) for the 5U4G.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Somatic said:


> Can we use 12au7 with an adapter? They look so cool! hahaha


1. I think we should be able to use 12au7 with adapters. 
2. The picture is no 12au7, 12au7 are small noval tubes


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## jonathan c (Tuesday at 9:00 PM)

ColSaulTigh said:


> That's not a 12AU7, that's the USAF "Mighty" 596 rectifier, and it's a replacement (with adapters) for the 5U4G.


596 to the world: “Don’t mistake me for some dinky nonal tube with 150 mA / 300 mA series / parallel filament current” 😤 !


----------



## Somatic

ColSaulTigh said:


> That's not a 12AU7, that's the USAF "Mighty" 596 rectifier, and it's a replacement (with adapters) for the 5U4G.


Ooops. Yeah they look cool.


----------



## Marutks

turbofeet said:


> My Melz are back and completely silent now after being re-soldered. One little ping from the Elrogs as they warmed up. Not a peep from the Melz.



How did you re-solder it?    I have a Melz that needs re-soldering.


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## ColSaulTigh

Marutks said:


> How did you re-solder it?    I have a Melz that needs re-soldering.


I made a helpful video:


----------



## JTbbb

JTbbb said:


> This is what happens when someone mentions a 6J5 thread! A quad of Brimars and Tungsol 6J5GT’s are also on their way! Jeez! Please, no more tube variants 😀.
> 
> Two of the Tungsol 6J5GT’s have arrived. Have popped them in the Crack, very nice.


----------



## Somatic

Those Tungsol 6J5GT are one of my favorite so far.


----------



## incredulousity

My Brimar 6j5 have not yet arrived from Langrex. they shipped on 23 December. I have requested tracking numbers, but they have not reesponded. Irritating.


----------



## incredulousity (Thursday at 12:47 PM)

Ordered 3 inexpensive sets of current production 12AU7 to try (TS, GL, and Mullard). I'm sure that there are better NOS options out there, but I'll start slowly, since I've invested a lot in other NOS tubes already. Might as well test for sustainability, since I have the necessary tube and power adapters.


----------



## turbofeet

Report back on your findings with different combinations guys. 🫡


----------



## jonathan c

incredulousity said:


> My Brimar 6j5 have not yet arrived from Langrex. they shipped on 23 December. I have requested tracking numbers, but they have not reesponded. Irritating.


I have ordered many times from Langrex - never a tracking number. No problems, tubes in fine condition. The longest time elapsed from departure UK to arrival _chez moi_ has been 10 business days 🤷🏻‍♂️.


----------



## incredulousity

jonathan c said:


> I have ordered many times from Langrex - never a tracking number. No problems, tubes in fine condition. The longest time elapsed from departure UK to arrival _chez moi_ has been 10 business days 🤷🏻‍♂️.


It's not a super long time yet, and it's probably holiday delay, but tracking numbers make me feel much more comfortable.


----------



## jonathan c

incredulousity said:


> It's not a super long time yet, and it's probably holiday delay, but tracking numbers make me feel much more comfortable.


FYI…


----------



## incredulousity

jonathan c said:


> FYI…


I know, but thanks.


----------



## Somatic

@JTbbb sent me this. Might be important info. Seems like they are having delays.


----------



## robo24

jonathan c said:


> I have ordered many times from Langrex - never a tracking number. No problems, tubes in fine condition. The longest time elapsed from departure UK to arrival _chez moi_ has been 10 business days 🤷🏻‍♂️.


I never get tracking when ordering direct but always do when buying from Langrex on ebay. Prices are the same.


----------



## 1Audiophool

incredulousity said:


> It's not a super long time yet, and it's probably holiday delay, but tracking numbers make me feel much more comfortable.


My last order from Langrex took 32 days…did get tracking when I requested it though. Once it hit the states I it moved quickly but it sat in Slough for 3 weeks!?


----------



## Somatic (Yesterday at 1:02 PM)

Trying out some Raytheon 6J5WGTs so far with the MO today. So far, so good. Seem to have excellent dynamics, clean mid picture, seems extended on both ends. Great detail retrieval. No sibilance/shoutyness so far. Sparkly.

Less of a fan of the GE 6J5GT, will let them burn in and see if it sounds better. Less slam. More anemic compared to my other tubes. Will check again in a little bit.


----------



## Somatic (Yesterday at 2:38 PM)

Just bought a 12x12x2" black granite slab I am going to use as an isolation platform for the Envy. I notice the Elrogs pickup my vibration when I am tapping my desk or typing on my desk. Will get some isoacoustic pucks or vibrapods underneath. 

Will send pics when installed. 

Edit: Tried to get a 13x13x1 initially but the wait is 4-5 months from this seller. Hard to find the right dimensions.

Edit2: I think I am canceling the granite slab idea. I am going to flip the Envy later and measure the depth of the base of the unit. Maybe I can put some IsoAcoustics Indigo underneath or something else.


----------



## moosemp (Yesterday at 2:37 PM)

Rogoz-audio.com.  A friend of mine makes excellent tables with patented vibration control system he calls BBS. I use such a table for ENVY, Octave V 16 and riviera on top shelf- absolutely dead silent. There is some place for a glass of whisky. Pictures if you wish.I removed ACOUSTIC REVIVE Quartz discs - just no need any more


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Somatic said:


> Trying out some Raytheon 6J5WGTs so far with the MO today. So far, so good. Seem to have excellent dynamics, clean mid picture, seems extended on both ends. Great detail retrieval. No sibilance/shoutyness so far. Sparkly.
> 
> Less of a fan of the GE 6J5GT, will let them burn in and see if it sounds better. Less slam. More anemic compared to my other tubes. Will check again in a little bit.


Don't let @bcowen hear your blaspheme his beloved GE's...


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Somatic said:


> Just bought a 12x12x2" black granite slab I am going to use as an isolation platform for the Envy. I notice the Elrogs pickup my vibration when I am tapping my desk or typing on my desk. Will get some isoacoustic pucks or vibrapods underneath.
> 
> Will send pics when installed.
> 
> ...


I think you may find that the microphonics are coming from you 6J5's more than your Elrogs.  I noticed the 6J5 are very microphonic in comparison to the average 6SN7.  6F8G's are less so, but also can be microphonic.  Just my $.02 worth, YMMV.


----------



## nwavesailor (Yesterday at 3:27 PM)

Somatic said:


> They are not ugly. I wish Deyan can do this new pcb with rounded edges in black. I guess I can mod myself though…


Deyan's adapters do not use a PCB, they are wired point to point.
 There is no way for you to sand, cut or mod the base of these adapters to have rounded edges.
 I do really like the black with the black Envy trim!



ColSaulTigh said:


> I think you may find that the microphonics are coming from you 6J5's more than your Elrogs.  I noticed the 6J5 are very microphonic in comparison to the average 6SN7.  6F8G's are less so, but also can be microphonic.  Just my $.02 worth, YMMV.


I agree that the 6J5G can be more prone to microphonics than the Elrog MO. My ER300B are a bit more microphonic than the MO version.


----------



## incredulousity

My tubes from Langrex finally arrived. Also 12AX7 Amperex. 

May be a couple of  days before I try them, as i am really enjoying the Fivre 6SN7 with Elrog Mo


----------



## nwavesailor (Yesterday at 4:04 PM)

NICE, I think you will like the Brimars!

I have several pairs of pretty good 12A** pairs and looking forward to your impressions using current production offerings in the Envy.

HiVac, Mullard, Amperex, Tele, (G73-R) RCA, GEC, Valvo that worked well in other amps.


----------



## JTbbb

Have got these Visseaux 6L5’s in the 6sn7 position in my Bottlehead Crack. Smooth and Tubey, I like a lot. I will now need to get in touch with Feliks Audio, see if they are ok for the Envy! Ugly looking brutes though aren’t they 😀.


----------



## JTbbb

incredulousity said:


> My tubes from Langrex finally arrived. Also 12AX7 Amperex.
> 
> May be a couple of  days before I try them, as i am really enjoying the Fivre 6SN7 with Elrog Mo


Got mine too. Not from LANGREX, these came from a friend.


----------



## zen87192

I've just re-housed my Audio system into another cabinet. Then had the table space, finally, to add my Turntable to the Envy.... OMG! Now we're talking.... Turntable direct to Envy.... this is amazing! What a sound!


----------

