# Best Schiit Amp for HD 650?



## jfdelacruz

Hi Guys,
  
 Long time reader, rarely a poster. I've been reading around for the past few weeks trying to decide which Schiit amp to order for my stock HD 650 (currently using an E7/E9 combo) and the more I read, the more confused I became so here I am posting and asking for help.
  
 Anyway, my planned setup would be something like this MacBook -> USB/Optical -> Bifrost -> Asgard2/Valhalla2/Lyr2 -> HD650. Unfortunately I still cannot decide which is best for my HD650, please help me out. I'll likely never buy another headphone again unless the HD650 breaks or I suddenly get rich enough to buy new ones (in which case I wont have this problem to ask).
  
 What my issue is, I want to get the best possible Schiit combo for my setup (aiming for the "show and go"). I don't mind spending upto the Lyr 2 but I have to get this right as I'm shipping this all the way to the Philippines and shipping it back won't be an option if I somehow don't like the product (unless there's defect on arrival of course).
  
 With that said, looking forward to your suggestions guys!


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## jfdelacruz

Seriously, no one? Help a head-fier out. Just want to get the best match Schiit amp for my HD-650. I'm sure this thread will help others in the future who are in the same boat...


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## Rem0o

jfdelacruz said:


> Seriously, no one? Help a head-fier out. Just want to get the best match Schiit amp for my HD-650. I'm sure this thread will help others in the future who are in the same boat...


 
 If you're stuck on Schiit only and have no problems with tubes (possible lemons, replace them, heat and so on), I would go Valhalla.


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## Kiwikat

I enjoyed my Lyr + Bifrost combo with the HD650 a lot (upgraded from E7/E9 as well).  The sound signatures just worked well together.  
  
 The Lyr 2 and Uber Bifrost would be even better.  It'd be a more versatile option than the Valhalla if you were to get different or additional headphones in the future.


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## scottcocoabeach

If you can get additional tubes I would go with the Lyr 2. I have the HD600 Senns and they work very well with this amp.


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## hodgjy

I'm running my HD650s from the Bifrost Uber and TEAC HA-501. It's a wonderful pairing.


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## Makiah S

well the best, schiit amp no taking price into consideration is going to be the New Ragnarock, 
  
 now that aside, what is your price range as $1600 is most like a little more than your looking to spend, that and factor in the cost of balanceing your HD 650 to get the most out of the Rag and you might be into like an extra $150 or so


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## hojomojo96

mshenay said:


> well the best, schiit amp no taking price into consideration is going to be the New Ragnarock,
> 
> now that aside, what is your price range as $1600 is most like a little more than your looking to spend, that and factor in the cost of balanceing your HD 650 to get the most out of the Rag and you might be into like an extra $150 or so


 
  
  


jfdelacruz said:


> What my issue is, I want to get the best possible Schiit combo for my setup (aiming for the "show and go"). *I don't mind spending upto the Lyr 2* but I have to get this right as I'm shipping this all the way to the Philippines and shipping it back won't be an option if I somehow don't like the product (unless there's defect on arrival of course).


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## Dill

Oops.


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## Dill

To repeat a broken record. You simply cannot go wrong with any of Asgard 2 or Valhalla or Lyr 2! If you want a more tubey sound go for the latter 2. The Valhalla also has slightly more power for 300 0hms..so perhaps consider that if and only if you will stay with the 650 for a long while. The Asgard is more flexible in driving fantastically well other phones upto and including the LCDs and HiFiman ortho's apart from that bleedin HE-6 thang. 

For you, the best option - considering these points is...Lyr 2 for future proofing. IMHO of course mate! I drive both my 650 and LCD 2.2 prefazor with the stunning solid state Asgard 2 as that is the sound siggy I prefer.


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## VALIENTE

Magandang araw sayo jfdelacruz. (Good day in Philippines) Nice that you're looking into a new amp. I have Senn HD600 and using Fiio E9 too. May I suggest that you go for a tube amp for something different. Based on my reading Valhalla are solely for HD6xx only and Lyr is for a variety of headphones. Please tell me too where did you purchase your amp. Salamat po. (Thank you.)


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## worminater

I am thoroughly  enjoying my Valhalla + hd650 combo; no plans to upgrade anytime in the near future.  I'll probably upgrade my Modi to a Bifrost eventually to even out the stack; but more for flexibility than as a performance qualm.


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## JoelT

The Valhalla 2 would be my fist choice - it's a fantastic match with the 6x Senns (quite good with the HD800 as well).  The higher output impedance matches well (it's an OTL), and I'd take it over the Lyr2 for the HD650 for that reason alone. The Valhalla 2 is not a mushy/gooey sounding tube amp. It's quite resolving and neutral. Good Schiit.


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## Bugler

I have a Schiit Valhalla driving my HD650 and am extremely happy with this combo. I listen to mostly jazz, classical, and classic rock.


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## OrganMonster

I recently heard the HD-650 paired with the Asgard 2 at the Rocky Mountain Audio show yesterday. I sounded extremely good. I also just purchased the Asgard 2 a couple of weeks ago. It is a fine amp that can accommodate many other headphones in the future. I also heard the 650 with the Schiit tube amps mentioned above it was alos very sweet. You have a very hard choice ahead of you.


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## Odin412

I use my HD 650 with the Valhalla/Bifrost Uber combo and I am very happy with the sound.


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## kamikazi

Right now i just use the Yunlong D100 mark 2 to drive my hd650
I'm try to find an upgrade, to Schiit too, or maybe use d100 as dac then get a Lyr 2 or vahalla 2 for an amp
Would you guys think that would be good idea or not?


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## Bugler

Sorry double post


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## samysonary

I currently have the Asgard2 with thee HD650s. Love the combo. I like that the Asgard2 is able to drive a wide range of headphones for my future purchases. I am looking forward to purchasing either thee Lyr2 or the Valhalla2 to jump into the tube amp scene. It is going to be a hard decision but you will not be disappointed. Good luck!


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## Liu Junyuan

Valhalla 2 for HD-650s without question. The Ly2 and Asgard 2 would compete for second choice.


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## servicenow

liu junyuan said:


> Valhalla 2 for HD-650s without question. The Ly2 and Asgard 2 would compete for second choice.


 
 Does it also pair well with T1 ? I mean Valhalla 2 ?


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## Ttvetjanu

I'm considering between Valhalla 2 and Asgard 2. I will be using the meridian explorer2 as my source, it already has amplification so what I'm wondering is if that will it make it easier for the Asgard 2 to drive the HD650's. I basically have no idea on how multiple amplifications work together.


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## guildenstern

servicenow said:


> Does it also pair well with T1 ? I mean Valhalla 2 ?


 

 You have probably already read this review, but if not, then Steve G on CNET likes the way the Valhalla 2 works with his T1s:
  
 http://www.cnet.com/news/the-little-schiit-headphone-amp-makes-a-big-sound/


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## Liu Junyuan

servicenow said:


> Does it also pair well with T1 ? I mean Valhalla 2 ?




Sorry for the delayed reply. Of all the $500 and below Schiit amps, the Valhalla 2 would be my top pick for the T1; it drives the most voltage into 600 ohms of any of the others.


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## dL.

What makes the Lyr 2 more versatile and future-proof than Valhalla?
  
 dL


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## worminater

Lyr has a bit more power; so you could use it with more power hungry cans.  I myself chose a Valhalla though as I was more worried about the opposite.


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## Leisure Muffin

I'm confused, the output impedance of the Valhalla 2 says it is only 14 ohms.  The HD 650's have a 300 ohm impedance that needs to be met to accurately push them.  Am I missing something?  Is it because the Valhalla 2 is Output Transformer-Less?


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## TinearedOne

Minimum desirable output/input impedance ratio is 1:10, so optimal for Valhalla/HD650 which is 1:21.  The 14 ohm output is why they had to put the gain switch on the Valhalla 2 to drive low impedance cans more effectively, because 1:2 or 3 doesn't really cut it.


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## Leisure Muffin

Hmm, I'm still confused.  Could you explain it to me like I'm a 9 year old with a head injury?  I thought that the ideal was to get as close to 1:1 as possible for high impedance headphones because they are resisting the flow, and need something to push back equally to get the most accurate representation of the source material.


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## Rem0o

leisure muffin said:


> Hmm, I'm still confused.  Could you explain it to me like I'm a 9 year old with a head injury?  I thought that the ideal was to get as close to 1:1 as possible for high impedance headphones because they are resisting the flow, and need something to push back equally to get the most accurate representation of the source material.


 

 Let me quote myself as I tried to explain how this whole impedance thing works:

_"_
_An amp is a really dumb device. Like a guy, it can't focus on two things at once, or at least, do two things right at once. Also, it always focus on the bigger thing. "Big = get my attention" kind of logic.  The "things" in this scenario are loads (resistances/impedance). By itself, an amp has a real small thing to exclusively focus on, its output impedance. It will drive all of its attention (voltage) to it. When you show him a bigger load (headphone), it will shift its attention to this new huge thing.  However, he will always focus also a little bit on its poor and lonely little output impedance, making him work on two things at once, hence bad (remember, it's like a guy).  As it tries to drive two things, it will lose focus and mess with both, doing poorly. The trick here is to make either:

 A -> The headphone load so much more interesting (making it BIG like 300 ohms ++) than the output impedance so the amp will almost exclusively focus on the headphones._

_or..._

_B -> Make the output impedance boring and not interesting (making it small) so whatever else you show the amp (low-impedance headphones), it will exclusively focus on that.

 And that's how an amp work. "_


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## TinearedOne

On a simpler note, look at the Valhalla 2's specs.  It makes most of its power into 300 ohms.  It was basically designed for 300 ohm headphones like the HD650.


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## tafens

The general consensus seems to be that Valhalla2 is the best choice for the HD650.

What about its little brothers, Magni2 and Magni2uber? Do they have adequate power to drive the HD650 (or HD600) to greatness?


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## Liu Junyuan

If not Valhalla2, Vali. Sennheisers open up with tubes. I personally also enjoy solid state, but they sound significantly thinner in the mids and the bass, but very very clean.


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## Knighthawk2112

I run my HD650's with the Schitt Valhalla2 and it sounds wonderful. I just upgraded from the Modi2 Uber to the Bifrost Multibit to handle DAC tasks. To my ear, it sounds excellent.
 For what it's worth, I run the HD650's balanced on my Pono player, it is amazing the extra depth to the music. I would assume (but have not been able to test) that coming off a balanced amp would sound similar.


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## Odin412

tafens said:


> What about its little brothers, Magni2 and Magni2uber? Do they have adequate power to drive the HD650 (or HD600) to greatness?


 
  
 The Magni 2 and the Magni 2 Uber will have plenty of power to drive the HD 650s (and most other headphones, for that matter). I have the original Magni and it's amazingly powerful, especially given the small size. I also second Lui's suggestion above to also check out the Vali. It's a great little amp!


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## tafens

odin412 said:


> The Magni 2 and the Magni 2 Uber will have plenty of power to drive the HD 650s (and most other headphones, for that matter). I have the original Magni and it's amazingly powerful, especially given the small size. I also second Lui's suggestion above to also check out the Vali. It's a great little amp!




Thanks. I just wanted to make sure as I've read about the HD650's and the "veil" it supposedly has and that it would require a big deal amp to lift it and make them sound their greatest.


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## HPiper

I have a Vali and a Lyr and I honestly can't tell a huge amount of difference in the sound of my HD650's through either of them. Not true of some other headphones but the HD650 in particular, work well with both.


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## amnesiac75

I've used the hd 650 ( also the hd 600) with the Asgard 2 and both the Valhalla 1 and Valhalla 2 and always thought the Valhalla was a bit better than the Asgard 2 but the asgard 2 does come close compaired to valhalla 1/2 with stock tubes. I've tried so many headphones in the past 2 years and keep coming back to the hd 600/650 that I just decided to build my setup around those 2 headphones and if I was starting from scratch the Valhalla 2 would be my first choice of amps from schiit but there is always the sennheiser hdva 600 ($1500) that I hear sounds great for hd 600/650/700/800 but man is it expensive. I've also owned the magni 1 magni 2 uber and the vali and never really liked any of those amps with the hd650 the sound was just OK the Asgard 2 alone blows all 3 of them away imho.


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## Liu Junyuan

I think the answer is clearly in favor of Val2 if you want to stick to Schiit's sub $1000 lineup. The specs just suit it perfectly.


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## Eee Pee

Haven't heard the Val 2, but if we're talking sub $1000, the Mjolnir clearly kicks the schiit out of the first Valhalla.


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## Mr Rick

eee pee said:


> Haven't heard the Val 2, but if we're talking sub $1000, the Mjolnir clearly kicks the schiit out of the first Valhalla.


 
 The Valhalla 2 and the Mjolnir have very similiar outputs into the HD 650. But, the Mojo has balanced outputs exclusively and the topology to provide them.  So the OP needs to keep in mind that the Mojo will only work with balanced cans.


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## Eee Pee

Balanced cable you mean.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Which can be made for $5.


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## crazychile

hpiper said:


> I have a Vali and a Lyr and I honestly can't tell a huge amount of difference in the sound of my HD650's through either of them. Not true of some other headphones but the HD650 in particular, work well with both.


 

 I moved from a Vali to Lyr 2 when I bought a pair of AKG K702s. I noticed the same thing. On the AKGs, not a big difference between the amps with these headphones. The bigger jump was when I went from a Modi DAC to a Bifrost Uber USB.


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## magnum703

Thank you headfi-ers! I just bought the HD650 and Valhalla 2 will be my choice! Well, after seeing what new products Schiit is coming out tomorrow that is...


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## kaboomooo

just love the name...  which schiit amp? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 this has to be a joke


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## Oklahoma

mr rick said:


> The Valhalla 2 and the Mjolnir have very similiar outputs into the HD 650. But, the Mojo has balanced outputs exclusively and the topology to provide them.  So the OP needs to keep in mind that the Mojo will only work with balanced cans.


 
 Not any more.  The Mjolnir 2 has both balanced and unbalanced output for headphones now.


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## eboch

Had the opportunity to listen to HD650 balanced and not.  With no price limit...need to go balanced. Mjolnir minimum.
  
 HD650 sounds rich and open in a way that it doesn't with unbalanced input.


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## f4phantom2500

So would valhalla 2 be significantly better with hd650 over valhalla1? Also how would asgard 1 (my current amp) compare to asgard 2 with hd650? Maybe even asgard 2 vs valhalla 1?


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## ahmadfaizadnan

I have bifrost 4490 + valhalla 2 and I'm kinda like it as for now. Hope it will continue do its job for my hd6xx


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## hrbngr

I will also be buying a Vali 2 amp for my HD6xx cans. I would like to buy a Jotunheim, but it is $230 more (though it offers SE and Balanced output).  Anyone have any feedback that might push me towards the more expensive SS Schiit?  Of note might be the hidden costs of add'l tubes and/or tube rolling that would inevitably occur when puchasing the Vali 2.  
  
 (Just reviewed the Schiit website and determined that most posters are discussing the Vahalla 2 not the Vali 2, so unclear if the Vali 2 will be sufficient.
  
 In Single Ended mode @ 300 ohms
 Valhalla - 800mW per channel
 Vali 2 - 270mW per channel
 Jotunheim - 350mW per channel  (also 900mW per channel, Balanced)


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## ahmadfaizadnan

hrbngr said:


> I will also be buying a Vali 2 amp for my HD6xx cans. I would like to buy a Jotunheim, but it is $230 more (though it offers SE and Balanced output).  Anyone have any feedback that might push me towards the more expensive SS Schiit?  Of note might be the hidden costs of add'l tubes and/or tube rolling that would inevitably occur when puchasing the Vali 2.
> 
> (Just reviewed the Schiit website and determined that most posters are discussing the Vahalla 2 not the Vali 2, so unclear if the Vali 2 will be sufficient.
> 
> ...




I never tried vali 2. But valhalla is a pretty good amp for hd650 and I am pretty sure its gonna be great for hd6xx. Getting hd6xx is a pain in the ass but I am glad that I made it through though.


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## geoprgemgraves

I have a a pair of HiFiMan HE-560s and I find the Asgard 2 to be a perfect match (in fact, it's a perfect match for the HE-1000, but that's another story). The Shiit amp's class A output can swing 70 volts (according to Jason Stoddard) and I can assure that's more than enough headroom for just about any headphone on the market. Of course the signal, itself, never swings anywhere near that much, but by using so little of it's available headroom to actually power the phones, the amp stays in the most ultra-linear portion of its curve. Be aware that the amp gets quite warm, but don't be alarmed, it's normal. Hope this helps


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## vonh

The Valhalla 2 is considered by many to be an exceptional match for the HD650. Depending on your existing setup, however, the Jotunheim might offer some functionality you would be able to make use of.
  
 I'd say it's between those two, toss up of personal preference.


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## Bitsir

Are tube amps still the best, or rather generally more preferred choice of amp, for the HD650? Or does the Jotunheim (using balanced output) challenge that statement?


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## raybone0566

I've owned the 650's for quite a while & during this time I've owned numerous amps both ss and tube. It comes to to synergy. The 650's just pair better with otl amps. The Valhalla 2 is a great match. The amp is a bit lean but matches well with the warm 650. You can roll tubes to add a bit of warmth if you prefer. The 650's scale significantly when you upgrade your chain with better gear. Really amazing how well these 300 dollar phones perform with totl gear. Figure out your budget and. Do some research. If your going otl there's plenty other options besides schiit. Bottlehead crack is a favorite here but it diy. Feliks elise is another amp that has a been noted as a solid performer with the 650's. Dac's also play a huge roll in the chain. But that another topic. When you have the right components together, the 650's are sublime


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## vonh

One isn't necessarily better than the other, they're different beasts. Which one will be better for you depends largely on your personal preferences. If you've found you enjoy the distortions introduced by tubes, OTL tube amps are known to work well with the HD6x0's. If you want something straightforward and as accurate as possible, the Jot might be for you.
  
 Nobody can make the choice for you.
  
 Edit 1: Unless of course you ask them to, in which case just say "tell me what to buy".


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## raybone0566

They have otl amps that are just as accurate & resolving as solid state amps. Unfortunately they come with a hefty price tag.


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## rhbecker

I'm basically in a similar position as the original poster - i.e. an HD 650 owner interested in the Schiit line, primarily due to what I've read.
  
 I'm curious whether anyone in here as listening experience with the AK100 ii. That's my setup. I'm interested in branching out to a desktop setup, but I only want to do so if I'm going to notice a significant improvement (i.e. I don't want to purchase anything that's only a lateral move, or a relatively trivial upgrade). Any thoughts on how high up the Schiit cost ladder I'd need to climb to make a purchase worthwhile?
  
 I posted a similar message in the AK thread to target AK owners, but this thread also seemed so close to what I'm trying to determine. Apologies if cross-posting is bad form.


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## IronStolf

Can someone with experience in both, tell me the differences between the Asgard 2 and Valhalla 2 regarding frequency with stock tubes paired with the HD650? For instance, would the mids become softer and highs Brighter? How much hotter is the Valhalla 2 than the Asgard 2? (Roughly twice as hot?)


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## IronStolf

ironstolf said:


> Can someone with experience in both tell me what differences are between the Asgard 2 and Valhalla 2 regarding frequency with stock tubes and the HD650?
> 
> Example: Would the mids become softer and highs Brighter?
> 
> Also how much hotter is the Valhalla 2 than the Asgard 2? (Roughly twice as hot?)


 
      For anyone reading, I'll try to answer my own questions.  The frequency between the two amps has not changed.  The Valhalla 2, first tube amp I've tried, is colored so the music sounds slightly different.  It is more pleasing to me through the preamp to my desktop speakers (not audiophile).  I do prefer the sound of the Asgard 2 through my headphones.  Some of the subtle sounds aren't as easily noticed through the Valhalla 2, I'm assuming this is due to the coloration.  Heat wise they seem identical  but the tubes are extremely hot!  I would not touch them while on, but the overall heat seems to be the same.  This is of course just my opinion and if anyone wants to add or correct the above information, please do so.


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## ljperez84

Resurrecting an old thread...
  
 I bought my Valhalla 1 about 3 weeks before Valhalla 2 was launched....
  
 Would you consider the Valhalla 2 an upgrade over the original ?
  
 If not, would you consider Lyr 2 a worthy upgrade for the HD650? Which version, the one with tubes? Hybrid?


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## Odin412

ljperez84 said:


> Resurrecting an old thread...
> 
> I bought my Valhalla 1 about 3 weeks before Valhalla 2 was launched....
> 
> ...


 

 ​I'm in a similar situation - I purchased the Valhalla 1 shortly before the 2 came out, but I don't think I'll ever replace it. The synergy between the Valhalla and the HD 650 is just sublime. So musical and involving without any fatigue or harshness.


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## cskippy

I'm pretty sure there are comparisons in the Valhalla 2 thread in the beginning of the thread.


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## ljperez84

odin412 said:


> ​I'm in a similar situation - I purchased the Valhalla 1 shortly before the 2 came out, but I don't think I'll ever replace it. The synergy between the Valhalla and the HD 650 is just sublime. So musical and involving without any fatigue or harshness.


 
  
 I agree, the synergy it's superb! But I recently updgraded my DAC to mimby (huge improvement coming from an audio GD Fun) and I was wondering if I can do significantly better with another amp.
  


cskippy said:


> I'm pretty sure there are comparisons in the Valhalla 2 thread in the beginning of the thread.


 
  
 Didn't find any, but looking at your amps... have you tried the Jotunheim with the HD650 Balanced? If so, how would you describe it?


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## cskippy

Jot with HD650 balanced is a hell of a combo.  There is such great authority and control the driver just submits to the powah!  Great sound stage and detail retrieval, my only quibbles are shallow stage depth and kind of blurry center image, slightly diffuse I guess.  Other people say that there is a treble etch to Jot, and that's kind of true.  I use my Vali 2 as a preamp into Jot and that solves most of my gripes.  
  
 The other great things about Jot is it's versatility.  It can be used as a balanced preamp for studio monitors, works well with any headphone and even very sensitive IEMs.  It's the quietest amp I've used for IEMs.  It even beat my Audio GD 10ES2 with relay based volume control!


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## ljperez84

cskippy said:


> Jot with HD650 balanced is a hell of a combo.  There is such great authority and control the driver just submits to the powah!  Great sound stage and detail retrieval, my only quibbles are shallow stage depth and kind of blurry center image, slightly diffuse I guess.  Other people say that there is a treble etch to Jot, and that's kind of true.  I use my Vali 2 as a preamp into Jot and that solves most of my gripes.
> 
> The other great things about Jot is it's versatility.  It can be used as a balanced preamp for studio monitors, works well with any headphone and even very sensitive IEMs.  It's the quietest amp I've used for IEMs.  It even beat my Audio GD 10ES2 with relay based volume control!


 

 Thanks for the answer! Sounds tempting. Taking the Vali 2 as preamp out of the equation, how would you rate both valhalla 2 single ended vs Jot balanced? (ie from 1 to 10).
  
 Versatility would be a good value, right now I just keep the Audio GD Fun arround to amp my Grados.
  
 I wish it was easier to trade gear here in Mexico. All my purchases are blind and the resale market is quite small.


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## cskippy

That's a tough one to call.  If i want the staging and "tube magic" that the Valhalla 2 brings I'll use it over the Jot especially if I want a slightly more laid back sound.  Jot is just so engaging you'll be blown away. Jot squeezes out 99% of HD650's potential.  Only ToTL tube amps will better it.  
  
 My suggestion is to go for Jot, especially since you have a Valhalla already.  Jot will work with any headphone you buy while Valhalla is limited to high impedance dynamics or very easy to drive planars.


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