# **1ST REVIEW** CARDAS - AYRE ACOUSTICS (IBE) BURN-IN CD... Has anyone tried this???



## weeeeesquirrel

Came across this and wondered if anyone had taken one for the team and tried this out? I searched forums and was surprised nothing posted about it... anyone???



 Product Link:
Musicdirect - CARDAS - AYRE ACOUSTICS (IBE) BURN-IN CD

*Update #1 (2/22/2008)*

Sovkiller took the time to put these together and send them to me, so I am now investing my time in sharing my experience. I am not a big fan of typing so please note this is for the benefit of all and not my idea of a good time
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_(I like sharing but it really feels like homework...)_

****DISCLAIMER****
[size=xx-small]This is my experience expressed via my own words. I am only reporting on what I know and would consider to be 'facts' and anything that would begin with the words 'I think' will not be presented as a fact of my experience. Either it happened or it didn't... period!!! For those who enjoy arguing just for the sake of arguing_(we all see these types posting here)_ I am letting you know upfront I will not be responding to you. You are more than welcome to argue among yourselves, but I will not be participating
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I will not be commenting on gas additives, male enhancement tablets, personal horoscopes or any other tangents I've seen this thread take. [/size]

*Equipment Used:*
Iron lung Jellyfish *>*Furman PL-8 II *>*Denon DCM-390 *>*Moon Audio Black Dragon RCA *>*Meier Corda Aria *>*Audio-Technica A900Ti & Sennheiser HD280
Sony DNE720 >Moon Audio Black Dragon Mini >Meier Corda Move >Audio-Technica A900Ti & Sennheiser HD280

*Compact Disc Used:*
The Cure 'Faith'
Reasons:
#1 reason is that it is one of the first Music CD's I ever owned and I have been listening to it for over 20years
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_[size=xx-small](really dated myself with that disclosure)[/size]_
[size=xx-small][size=x-small]#2 It is difficult to accurately/pleasingly reproduce the 8 tracks it contains, especially the bass guitar and general low end. If you want to hear difference between 'accurate' bass and 'boomy, flabby' stuff this CD will really make it evident. [/size][size=xx-small](HD280 vs Sony V6 - although V6 will have 'more' bass in its sound, but it all kinda smears together and all the subtlety between frequencies just isn't present - while the HD280 seems to have 'less' bass in a direct comparison, it is strikingly accurate and you can actually tell what is making what noise down there and it reproduces quite low frequencies)[/size][/size]
[size=xx-small][size=x-small]#3 The highs are delicate, spatial, with lots of left/right action and completely unforgiving if they aren't treated right. [/size][/size]
#4 Mids are complexly layered with multiple guitars, piano, vocals, subtle enrichments like [size=xx-small](bells, water drops splashing & echoing)[/size]
#5 Each track is quite consistent in sound signature throughout its entire length. So there is no need for sampling specific sections over & over while doing critical listening[size=xx-small](20sec here 45 sec there etc...).[/size]

*What Tested:*
Densen Demagic CD
Why... just the first one I chose
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



I did my _'testing'_ over the last month and quite randomly[size=xx-small](sometimes short intervals... sometimes long - sometimes after I was using equipment for an extended period... sometimes when I first turned on after it sat for a while). [/size][size=x-small]Most important aspect to me was that I did it when I wanted to do it and did not force myself to do any critical listening. I listened at different volume levels, but always the same during my comparison. I always listened to The Cure before and after I ran Demagic CD[/size][size=xx-small](never adjusting volume during comparison). [/size]

*What type of "Listener" am I?:*
I would be categorized as the _'Golden Ear'_ type. Quality, quality and more quality... that's #1-10 on my preference list. Personally I wish I was like the following person[size=xx-small](I would spend less on audio equipment, but probably wouldn't have as much fun though).[/size] I recently read about someone here who snapped together a bunch of 1/4" & 1/8" adapters to see if it degraded sound quality and couldn't hear the difference. Unfortunately, that is not me
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I recently had to chop off stock plug on my A900Ti and solder on a Cardas GRQ SS because the screw on 1/4" adapter completely destroyed the audio signal. I was actually near tears because they were sounding so terrible compared to how incredible they sounded when I first received them. Plus, they sounded worse on my new Aria than they did on my Move!!! Finally it dawned on me... what was the only difference from the amp to my head??? That damn screw on 1/4" adapter!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sure enough, I grabbed my HD280 adapter and BAM... instant improvement. Next day, _CHOP... SOLDER... and voila..._ sound like million buck now!!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If my home speaker is off axis 1 degree, I will hear it and have to get up and adjust it. If my power capacitors are old & dying in my car system, I will hear it and have to replace them. I can also set the timing on a V8 engine by ear. Although I am new to high-end head phone nirvana, I've been a critical listener for my whole life. Always looking to achieve that next level in audio reproduction perfection. Did not even know high-end head phone world existed just a few months ago.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My previous experience is with Car Audio and Home Audio. More with car because I found it more enjoyable and rewarding and not so bank account dependent.

*What the Hell Happened????:*
Well, it's only a 3 minute track and that was the experiment part I performed while listening to above CD. The following results are facts based on my actual experience. Not opinions! And yes, these results were apparent with the rest of my music library_(650+ cd's and counting)._ *FYI* Every time I did this I went *WOW.* That is why I am sharing. Because I feel it is actually worth my time and worthwhile for other 'critical' types_(picky SOB's or the like)_ to try for themselves. I am extremely skeptical by nature and have to experience everything for myself before I will believe it for myself
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*#1.* Dynamic range of audio reproduction increases dramatically!!! Any perceived congestion_(I hear it a lot on extremely busy musical sections)_ has been eliminated. The music faucet is wide open baby!!! No more flow control! It doesn't make a regular CD a HDCD, but everything has more depth than ever and is extremely 3-dimensional. You can _'mentally'_ focus on any sound and/or instrument in the music and it exists more independently and dimensionally than I have heard before. I can listen to a cymbal and enjoy it all by itself without it melting away into other sounds not associated with it.
*#2.* More transparency, head phones disappear and music surrounds you. Almost _'invades'_ you in a way. Like how you feel a part of the music at a live performance.
*#3.* I find this one odd but I will do my best to put it into words. Even though I did not use my cross-feed filter in any of my testing. One prominent improvement was what a cross-feed filter is supposed to do by definition. Even though left and right channel material maintained its separation_(didn't feel like it was more 'mono' in presentation at all)._ The _'space'_ between left & right channels that I perceive with head phones_(also the same thing that makes some people ill because they get disoriented from the extreme stereo separation)_ virtually disappears. Instead of two floor speakers 20ft apart_(which would exaggerate stereo separation) _they are sucked in to a more optimal 6ft apart.

Okay... this part *IS *my opinion. I believe less than 15% of Headfier's would perceive the same benefits that I do. Like I said before, I am of the _'Golden Ear'_ type and therefore represent a small minority of the population and I am well aware of it. 

*[size=small]For the record...[/size]* Til' this very day I still absolutely have no idea what this Densen CD is _supposed _to do. I never heard of it before I opened the package from Sovkiller and all I read about it from the internet was the instructions. 
_"Play 3 minute track at normal listening volume. Repeat weekly or monthly."_
So, maybe it's supposed to do something completely different... like make everything sound like it was recorded during a thunderstorm in Kentucky inside a one car garage by drunken chimpanzee's on crack??? I don't know and don't care... I am surprised as hell it does what it does and will continue to use it.


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## weeeeesquirrel




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## colonelkernel8

Its a pristine example of audiophile snake oil. Don't bother.

 My favorite quote: _"We don't completely understand how it works, but trust us…it does!"_


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## Anders

Such threads often lead to long and meaningless discussions with people who never have tried but are convinced that it doesn't work.


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## colonelkernel8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anders* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Such threads often lead to long and meaningless discussions with people who never have tried but are convinced that it doesn't work._

 

Hell the manufacturer doesn't even know how it works...

 But please, buy it for your own sake, at least its cheap. I want to hear your impressions afterward though.


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## weeeeesquirrel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *colonelkernel8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hell the manufacturer doesn't even know how it works...

 But please, buy it for your own sake, at least its cheap. I want to hear your impressions afterward though._

 

I know... that was my favorite part "_*Irrational, But Efficacious!"...*_ in other words_* "really... it does something... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




trust us...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 we just don't know what it does or why it does it..." *_


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## colonelkernel8

If you stick around the hi-end audio scene, you'll notice a lot of garbage thats in the same boat as this.


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## Acoustic Chef

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *colonelkernel8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you stick around the hi-end audio scene, you'll notice a lot of garbage thats in the same boat as this._

 

The almighty prophet has spoken his true words of wisdom yet again.


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## Todd R

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Acoustic Chef* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The almighty prophet has spoken his true words of wisdom yet again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Come on Chef, don't you remember knowing everything when you were 18 too?


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## yotacowboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Acoustic Chef* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The almighty prophet has spoken his true words of wisdom yet again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I think I smell some "horse sense" coming on...


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## Akathisia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Todd R* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Come on Chef, don't you remember knowing everything when you were 18 too? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

zing!


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## colonelkernel8

What the hell would Chef know? He hasn't matured past 14.

 I don't remember even taking that polarized of a stance on audio tweaks. I just said "a lot" of products are like this, not all, a lot.

 If you don't think this CD is utter garbage, then please, enlighten me on how it can change anything. Oh wait, you can't. You just feel the need to bash me because I am not anti-science, anti-logic and don't buy into this BS.


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## TheAnomaly

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *weeeeesquirrel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know... that was my favorite part "*Irrational, But Efficacious!"...* in other words* "really... it does something... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




trust us...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 we just don't know what it does or why it does it..." *_

 

i think we know _why_, if you know what i mean


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## Todd R

Quote:


 Track 1 is a 45 second version of the glide track, for a quick boost.

 Track 2 is White Noise, random full spectrum noise, that can be used to speed burn-in of a component or to determine proper phase. 

 Track 3 is Pink Noise, random noise with equal emphasis on each band of the audio spectrum, great for making sure your checking midrange phase and also for burning in drivers.

 Track 4 is Brown Noise, random noise with an emphasis on the midrange and lower octaves, for burning in midrange and bass drivers or checking bass integration / rattles in your room.

 Track 5 is Mono Brown Noise, this time summed to mono. This is a very useful track when you're trying to integrate a high quality subwoofer into your audio system, simply flip the phase on your sub and find the position where your sub makes the least bass, flip the phase back and you're set! 

 Track 6 is Out of Phase Brown Noise, both channels are out of phase with each other. Similar to the two previous tracks, the Brown Noise on this track allows for quick acoustic cancellation. E.g. burning in your speakers at higher volumes without thundering your house to the ground.

 Track 7 is the full glide track, a 285 second sweep of all frequencies from 5Hz to 20kHz. 
 

Here is an explanation of how a system demagnetizer works from Gryphon Audio Designs, who makes an electronic device that performs a similar function as the CD. 

 Even if you don't think tracks 1 & 7 will do anything, the disk has 5 other useful tracks. That's worth the asking price right there. 

 I have a similar product XLO test Disc. 
 The demagnetizing sweeps make a small improvement, and the music tracks are good too. The last one is a real torture test for system dynamics.


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## colonelkernel8

The only problem is, all the evidence is always from another company that uses pseudo-science and gimmicks in their marketing claims. How can this be taken as truth? I think "why" is a pretty decent question to ask.

 From Gryphon Audio on their "Exorcist" demagnetizing product:

_The application of DC current is precisely the technique employed in the manufacture of magnets. High end connector manufacturers and others are very much aware of this and *subjective listening tests* have often pinpointed the degrading sonic effects of nickel._

 In other words, this "proof" is complete and utter BS.

 Nickel can be magnetized, true, but I'll be damned if line-level current simply passing through it will "magnetize" it. I'll be double damned if that thin plate layer, even if magnetized, will cause distortion.

 Furthermore, they never describe how or why this product can magically dispel magnetism with an audible sound signal. Ridiculous.


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## 883dave

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *colonelkernel8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The only problem is, all the evidence is always from another company that uses pseudo-science and gimmicks in their marketing claims. How can this be taken as truth? I think "why" is a pretty decent question to ask._

 


 So now Ayre Acoustics is just another "pseudo-science and gimmicks company". 
 It is my understanding after reading reviews and actually listening to some of their equipment Ayre Acoustics is a well respected audio component manufacturer. 

 Can you show where they use "pseudo-science"? in their marketing.


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## colonelkernel8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *883dave* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So now Ayre Acoustics is just another "pseudo-science and gimmicks company". 
 It is my understanding after reading reviews and actually listening to some of their equipment Ayre Acoustics is a well respected audio component manufacturer. 

 Can you show where they use "pseudo-science"? in their marketing._

 

Cardas developed the product, not Ayre. Cardas is a "pseudo-science and gimmicks company". Note the wood blocks and the "Golden Ratio stranded conductors".

 Its fairly shameful for Ayre to even put their names on this product.

 If a developer doesn't even know how or why their product works, why the hell would you believe that it does? Because they said so?


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## 883dave

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *colonelkernel8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cardas developed the product, not Ayre. Cardas is a "pseudo-science and gimmicks company". Note the wood blocks and the "Golden Ratio stranded conductors".

 Its fairly shameful for Ayre to even put their names on this product.

 If a developer doesn't even know how or why their product works, why the hell would you believe that it does? Because they said so?_

 

Why is it shameful? 
 I assume that if they actually put their name on it they have probably tried it, with as they state positive effect. 

 Are you speaking from first hand experience, have you ever used the disc in question?


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## Todd R

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *colonelkernel8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cardas developed the product, not Ayre. Cardas is a "pseudo-science and gimmicks company". Note the wood blocks and the "Golden Ratio stranded conductors".

 Its fairly shameful for Ayre to even put their names on this product.

 If a developer doesn't even know how or why their product works, why the hell would you believe that it does? Because they said so?_

 

And here we go again....
 Another inexperienced kid telling us how things he's never tried can't work.

 I'm so tired of people like you trashing threads, and I can't believe you've called Cardas a "pseudo-science and gimmicks company". 
 Nothing could be further from the truth and it shows exactly how much you DON'T KNOW! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






 Congratulations punk, you just made the list.


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## colonelkernel8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *883dave* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why is it shameful? 
 I assume that if they actually put their name on it they have probably tried it, with as they state positive effect. 

 Are you speaking from first hand experience, have you ever used the disc in question?_

 

If someone came up to you offering you a bottle of a mysterious "medicine" and said it could cure cancer, AIDS and restore you to perfect health and provided no explanation why, would you buy it just to see if it worked? Thats snake oil.

 Same thing is going on here. I don't understand the mindset that everything has to be bought and tried even if the product has no scientific backing in the slightest. KIND OF LIKE EVERY OVERPRICED CARDAS PRODUCT.

 Its somewhat sad to see how adamantly you defend such products.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Todd R* 
_Congratulations punk, you just made the list._

 

What list is that Todd? The list of people who have told you you're wrong?

 Oh sorry Todd, I didn't notice your industry connections earlier. Of course you are going to defend them.


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## yotacowboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *colonelkernel8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If someone came up to you offering you a bottle of a mysterious "medicine" and said it could cure cancer, AIDS and restore you to perfect health and provided no explanation why, would you buy it just to see if it worked? Thats snake oil.

 Same thing is going on here. I don't understand the mindset that everything has to be bought and tried even if the product has no scientific backing in the slightest. KIND OF LIKE EVERY OVERPRICED CARDAS PRODUCT.

 Its somewhat sad to see how adamantly you defend such products.



 What list is that Todd? The list of people who have told you you're wrong?

 Oh sorry Todd, I didn't notice your industry connections earlier. Of course you are going to defend them._

 

Have you ever tried a set of cardas cables? Have you tried the disc mentioned by the OP?


 I'll refresh your memory:

 "wondered if anyone had taken one for the team and tried this out?"

 please, just stop posting. no one cares about your opinion.


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## colonelkernel8

I just ordered it. "Took one for the team" if you will. Tell me exactly how a sine sweep is supposed to "clear up" magnetism. Or how I can even measure the supposed effects. Thats right, pretty much all these gimmicky products rely on their results being immeasurable.


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## yotacowboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *colonelkernel8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just ordered it. "Took one for the team" if you will. Tell me exactly how a sine sweep is supposed to "clear up" magnetism. Or how I can even measure the supposed effects. Thats right, pretty much all these gimmicky products rely on their results being immeasurable._

 

You actually bought that gimmick?

 Wow, what a waste of money!

 You do know that it's all snake oil, right?


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## 883dave

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *colonelkernel8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If someone came up to you offering you a bottle of a mysterious "medicine" and said it could cure cancer, AIDS and restore you to perfect health and provided no explanation why, would you buy it just to see if it worked? Thats snake oil.

 Same thing is going on here. I don't understand the mindset that everything has to be bought and tried even if the product has no scientific backing in the slightest. KIND OF LIKE EVERY OVERPRICED CARDAS PRODUCT.

 Its somewhat sad to see how adamantly you defend such products.
 ._

 

So to get this staight, a kid has come up and told me that all products from Ayre and Cardas are snake oil, with no explaination as to why, so I am to except this as truth and not experiment myself ? that son is not snake oil, that is arrogance


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## colonelkernel8

I NEVER said Ayre was snake oil.

 I said Cardas is snake oil.


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## yotacowboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *colonelkernel8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I NEVER said Ayre was snake oil.

 I said Cardas is snake oil._

 

George Cardas thinks you're snake oil, too.


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## 883dave

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yotacowboy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_George Cardas thinks you're snake oil, too._

 

If what he says about Cardas is true, wouldn't George think he is Gullible?
 assuming he did actually purchase the disc


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## Sovkiller

What you need to burn in, the headphones? That is the only part of the system that will offer an slightly noticeable change after burn in, and for that you do not need to spend money, just download pink noise from the Bink Audio Test CD, free here, and alternate Pink Noise and the track of silence a few times on a CD (to give the driver a break as the Pink noise is highly energetic) and play it continuously at normal volume, or simply pay some dynamic music for a few days and period....


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## colonelkernel8

I was never arguing against the noise tracks, I was focused entirely on the "demagnetization" tracks. When a product claims to do the impossible, you don't need to purchase and test it yourself to know that it will not change anything. This is one of this forums greatest faults, being almost entirely subjective and supporting fairy-tale claims of people hearing what cannot be heard. The outright banning of DBT pretty much sums up the forum's inefficacies as far as amplification, so-called "tweaks", and cables go, as well as being the nail in the coffin for anyone trying to argue objectivity. This forum still rocks for headphones though!

 I don't think George Cardas himself is snake oil, he seems affable enough; however, I think the whimsical products he peddles certainly are. Alas, I have bought this CD, though I doubt I will be proved otherwise.


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## TheAnomaly

i thought one of the major tenets of objectivity is to maintain an open mind.


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## colonelkernel8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAnomaly* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i thought one of the major tenets of objectivity is to maintain an open mind._

 

There is certainly a limit though. Concepts that fail the most basic of logic don't really belong.


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## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *colonelkernel8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tell me exactly how a sine sweep is supposed to "clear up" magnetism. Or how I can even measure the supposed effects. Thats right, pretty much all these gimmicky products rely on their results being immeasurable._

 

Inmesurable? I do not think so, they are nonexistent that is different...And they rely in the naive guys who purchased them relying on their names, andbeleiving that they will get any benefit...

 And unfortunatelly for the opposed field, *I do have tried them, and I have them here, and all of them are IMO snake oil, they do absolutelly nothing, period...* But also IMHO you do not need to even try them to arrive to such conclussions, OK?

 I will send all of all those CDs to the OP, about five in total, CDs that were released by different companies, Sheffield Labs, Cardas, Densen, Ayre, MCM, Wireworld, etc...I got them as gifts from my friends, they believe that all what says "audiophile" on the label, is relevant to me...LOL...And he could said here later on what kind of differences or improvements those will do in his system...


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## colonelkernel8

Thanks for backing me up Sovkiller, now I regret buying it...even if it was to prove a point.


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## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *colonelkernel8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for backing me up Sovkiller, now I regret buying it...even if it was to prove a point._

 

Some of them have tones that are useful for testing purposes, and setting equipment, etc...Pink noise is useful for tunning home listening rooms, theaters etc...but other than that...a total scam to my ears...


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## 883dave

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *colonelkernel8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was never arguing against the noise tracks, I was focused entirely on the "demagnetization" tracks. When a product claims to do the impossible, you don't need to purchase and test it yourself to know that it will not change anything. This is one of this forums greatest faults, being almost entirely subjective and supporting fairy-tale claims of people hearing what cannot be heard. The outright banning of DBT pretty much sums up the forum's inefficacies as far as amplification, so-called "tweaks", and cables go, as well as being the nail in the coffin for anyone trying to argue objectivity. This forum still rocks for headphones though!

 I don't think George Cardas himself is snake oil, he seems affable enough; however, I think the whimsical products he peddles certainly are. Alas, I have bought this CD, though I doubt I will be proved otherwise._

 

I did not see in the op's title "CARDAS - AYRE ACOUSTICS (IBE) BURN-IN CD... Has anyone tried this??? where he was looking for an argument, I don't see anyone else arguing, seems to me you are looking for an argument for the sake of arguing. Or are you simply looking for attention?

 "When a product claims to do the impossible, you don't need to purchase and test it yourself to know that it will not change anything." So what do you hope to achieve with your purchase of this disc, do you not even take or listen to your own advise???
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Where in this thread has anyone made fairy-tale claims about what they heard or didn't hear with this disc? All I see are claims from a nay-sayer who has zero experience with the mentioned product. No one as yet has said they have or use the disc

 The forum's inefficacies, in my opinion, are people who jump in and assert their unexperienced views (which it seems they don't even follow themselves) where ever and when ever they can, thus making people who have experience and do know what they are talking about not post their experiences


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## yotacowboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *883dave* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If what he says about Cardas is true, wouldn't George think he is Gullible?
 assuming he did actually purchase the disc_

 

ol' george is laughing his butt off, I'm certain, all while rolling in giant piles of money! He's a clever scam artist, he even got the most die-hard objectivist to fall prey to his evil ploy! The horror! It's like we're slipping into the dark ages!


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## colonelkernel8

Read Sovkiller's post to see how wrong you are.

 I took the OP as someone who was looking to buy the product, so I provided him with a reason why he should stay away from it and similar products.


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## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *colonelkernel8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I took the OP as someone who was looking to buy the product..._

 

Me too, so I offered him the chance to try them free of charge, as well as I did...they will be on the way on Monday, he could choose to post his findings later on, or not...I already packed them


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## colonelkernel8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yotacowboy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ol' george is laughing his butt off, I'm certain, all while rolling in giant piles of money! He's a clever scam artist, he even got the most die-hard objectivist to fall prey to his evil ploy! The horror! It's like we're slipping into the dark ages!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Do you even read half the posts I made? I never, I repeat, NEVER, made any insinuation that George Cardas is a scam artist. He obviously believes in his products. I also bought the CD to definitively prove that the product he created does nothing, even though he thinks it does (he can't prove himself otherwise because he doesn't even know how the product works himself). Make sense now?


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## OverlordXenu

To all who say we need to try something for ourselves...what about gas additives?

 Sure, there have been tests in which they were disproved, but the cars they tested them in didn't cost enough!

 We should all try the gas additives for ourselves before we call them snake oil!

 Did I sum up your realm of thinking correctly?


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## 883dave

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To all who say we need to try something for ourselves...what about gas additives?

 Sure, there have been tests in which they were disproved, but the cars they tested them in didn't cost enough!

 We should all try the gas additives for ourselves before we call them snake oil!

 Did I sum up your realm of thinking correctly?_

 


 What have you been smoking? What are you talking about????

 The question was "CARDAS - AYRE ACOUSTICS (IBE) BURN-IN CD... Has anyone tried this" 
 The only one who has answered is Sovkiller. 

 What does this have to do with gas additives and cheap or expensive cars???


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## Pangaea

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Todd R* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And here we go again....
 Another inexperienced kid telling us how things he's never tried can't work.

 I'm so tired of people like you trashing threads, and I can't believe you've called Cardas a "pseudo-science and gimmicks company". 
 Nothing could be further from the truth and it shows exactly how much you DON'T KNOW! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





Congratulations punk, you just made the list._

 

I think this is my favorite part...


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## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To all who say we need to try something for ourselves...what about gas additives?

 Sure, there have been tests in which they were disproved, but the cars they tested them in didn't cost enough!

 We should all try the gas additives for ourselves before we call them snake oil!

 Did I sum up your realm of thinking correctly?_

 


 Some gas and oil additives work, and some of those CD tracks are useful, but in the case than gas additives were also an scam, two wrongs do not make a right...


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## yotacowboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *colonelkernel8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you even read half the posts I made?_

 

Nope!

 Should I?

 I've already come to the conclusion that you're going to post the same tired diatribe, no matter the topic, no matter the technology or gear in question. Am I wrong? Do you ever change your position?


----------



## OverlordXenu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sovkiller* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Some gas and oil additives work, and some of those CD tracks are useful, but in the case than gas additives were also an scam, two wrongs do not make a right...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

AFAIK, there are no gas additives that make you get more MPG or make your car run cleaner. In fact, they make it appear as if your car has worse MPG, as they displace potential gasoline, but your car would assume that additive was gas...I think you get where I'm going.


----------



## colonelkernel8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yotacowboy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nope!

 Should I?

 I've already come to the conclusion that you're going to post the same tired diatribe, no matter the topic, no matter the technology or gear in question. Am I wrong? Do you ever change your position?_

 

My position is entirely dependent on the product in question.


----------



## yotacowboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_AFAIK, there are no gas additives that make you get more MPG or make your car run cleaner. In fact, they make it appear as if your car has worse MPG, as they displace potential gasoline, but your car would assume that additive was gas...I think you get where I'm going.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Read Consumer Reports much?


----------



## OverlordXenu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *883dave* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What have you been smoking? What are you talking about????

 The question was "CARDAS - AYRE ACOUSTICS (IBE) BURN-IN CD... Has anyone tried this" 
 The only one who has answered is Sovkiller. 

 What does this have to do with gas additives and cheap or expensive cars???_

 

Because of posts like these:
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Todd R* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And here we go again....
 Another inexperienced kid telling us how things he's never tried can't work._

 

I don't need to try a gasoline additive to know that they don't do anything.

 Edit:
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yotacowboy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Read Consumer Reports much?_

 

Not really, why? Is there one out there that somehow raises one's MPG?


----------



## yotacowboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Because of posts like these:


 I don't need to try a gasoline additive to know that they don't do anything.

 Edit:

 Not really, why? Is there one out there that somehow raises one's MPG?_

 

Do you know anything about gas additives?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 gasoline displacement? What are you talking about?

 Or is your understanding of internal combustion engines as cursory as your knowledge of audio? goodness, you're hopeless...


----------



## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_AFAIK, there are no gas additives that make you get more MPG or make your car run cleaner. In fact, they make it appear as if your car has worse MPG, as they displace potential gasoline, but your car would assume that additive was gas...I think you get where I'm going.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

There have been indeed reports in magazines, not sure if in Consumers Report, and I have read experiences and have heard some people who has observed improvements due to the use of some aditives, car stops hesitation, run smoother, some octane boosters actually "boost" your car, gas line antifreeze work also, water removal ones (alcohol based mainly) etc...but in the worst scenario what price are we talking about? The most expensive does not exceed $20.00 (going insane in prices of gas additives, mainly all of them cost around $1.00) 

 I personally avoid all those, and only use a better grade gas and period, but I do not see why we have to believe the audiophiles while they claim they ear differences between this and that, or by the use of this and that, and later on we doubt of the drivers that believe in gas additives...while gas aditives are more scientifically based, than other voodooish stuff we heard here a day...as those CDs for example, or the blocks, or the resonators, etc...just to mentions the most absurd ones to me...but there are a lot of others...


----------



## Acoustic Chef

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sovkiller* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*I do have tried them, and I have them here, and all of them are IMO snake oil, they do absolutelly nothing, period...*_

 

Adding an IMO to your post does not nullify such a bold claim. If you're color blind stop saying orange doesn't exist.


----------



## 883dave

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Because of posts like these:


 I don't need to try a gasoline additive to know that they don't do anything.

 Edit:

 Not really, why? Is there one out there that somehow raises one's MPG?_

 

It's odvious you have never had a high performance muscle car with a big block motor that knocks and pings with regular or to a degree premium gasoline. 

 The only thing I found to stop the knock and ping was the gasoline additive "Octane Boost"

 Also where I live and work we regularly use an additive called gasline antifreeze...it keeps any water in the tank from freezing in the lines

 You might want to stick to topics you actually have knowledge about


----------



## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Acoustic Chef* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Adding an IMO to your post does not nullify such a bold claim. If you're color blind stop saying orange doesn't exist._

 

It is amazing how a believer mentality work, first they ask us the skeptics to try the things they believe in, then after we have tried them, and we found absolutely no differences, then we are color blind, or deaf, or crazy...then my question is why they need us top try them ? if in their opinions they will be always right, we will be always wrong, and there is no way to demonstrate them that they are wrong, as they have faith in what they believe (see that I say faith and in 99% of the cases they have absolutely no evidence to back their claims, same case as many others, Myrtle blocks, power cords, resonators, etc...) Just as an example take this particular case, IMO a total absurd as not even Cardas himself has been able to offer an explanation of how this work, but on top he still claims it works, and on top some other people also believe that...That is freaking unbelievable!!! After reading that statement he made, IMO who believe in that must be dumb!!!

 Yep you are right probably I'm color blind, but we are not talking here of colors, and sorry to tell you that my hearing is perfect, want to bet? Also it is not a bold statement, it is a bold statement for myself, and in my opinion...period...have you tried them? IIRC none of the ones arguing have, Joe Cardas say that he doesn't know how this works neither so IMO it is not a matter of being color blind or not is a matter of common sense...


----------



## Chu

Seriously, burn-in for headphones has to be the easiest thing in the world to double blind. Buy two hi-fi headphones that people agree benefit from burnin (K701 first that comes into mind). Burn one in. Repackage. Have a friend swap and mark. Take it to a meet and see if people can identify the burned in one.

 With the current delta between used and new K701 prices, this test would cost about $50. Really, someone should put their money where their mouth is at the national meet considering the debate burn-in provokes.


----------



## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seriously, burn-in for headphones has to be the easiest thing in the world to double blind. Buy two hi-fi headphones that people agree benefit from burnin (K701 first that comes into mind). Burn one in. Repackage. Have a friend swap and mark. Take it to a meet and see if people can identify the burned in one.

 With the current delta between used and new K701 prices, this test would cost about $50. Really, someone should put their money where their mouth is at the national meet considering the debate burn-in provokes._

 

I do not think that anybody will question the burn in in drivers, that has at least a physical expanation as we have pointed out many times, that is indeed IMO the only thing that really benefits from the burn in, but what we are questioning is the demagnetizing effect of these tracks, or in others...not the burn in part...


----------



## Acoustic Chef

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sovkiller* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is amazing how a believer mentality work, first they ask us the skeptics to try the things they believe in, then after we have tried them, and we found absolutely no differences, then we are color blind, or deaf, or crazy...then my question is why they need us top try them ? if in their opinions they will be always right, we will be always wrong, and there is no way to demonstrate them that they are wrong, as they have faith in what they believe (see that I say faith and in 99% of the cases they have absolutely no evidence to back their claims, same case as many others, Myrtle blocks, power cords, resonators, etc...) Just as an example take this particular case, IMO a total absurd as not even Cardas himself has been able to offer an explanation of how this work, but on top he still claims it works, and on top some other people also believe that...That is freaking unbelievable!!! After reading that statement he made, IMO who believe in that must be dumb!!!

 Yep you are right probably I'm color blind, but we are not talking here of colors, and sorry to tell you that my hearing is perfect, want to bet? Also it is not a bold statement, it is a bold statement for myself, and in my opinion...period...have you tried them? IIRC none of the ones arguing have, Joe Cardas say that he doesn't know how this works neither so IMO it is not a matter of being color blind or not is a matter of common sense..._

 

I'm not a believer I'm an observer; an observer that can not explain why you think the way you do, when you say things that you just said. But you did say them did you not? 
 Now, if I couldn't read; is it now fact that you didn’t express you can’t hear some things?

 Your CD3000's sound different then your UE9 do they not? Why do they sound different? Why does any thing sound different? Why do things smell different? Why are things different shapes? 
 Because there are laws for everything in existence, algorithms that determine reactions to actions (life). 
 If you change copper wire to play dough how can that not have a variant outcome? 

 Instead of asking how powercords can have an effect, you need to ask how can they not? And if you can not observe the reaction to an action, why not?


----------



## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Acoustic Chef* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not a believer; I'm an observer, an observer that can not explain why you think the way you do, when you say things that you just said. But you did say them did you not? 
 Now, if I couldn't read; is that fact that you didn’t express you can’t hear some things?_

 

Man to be honest with you this post is completelly out of my understanding...Would you mind to elaborate in a simpler english for me...if you want PM me, I do not wan to to say things that I do not like to... 

 Matt I have tried things that even beleived they will not work at all, and some of them did, but others did not, I do not see anything wrong on that, other than with my logic. So I should not try what I do not beleive will work?


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Acoustic Chef* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Instead of asking how a different powercords can have an effect, you need to ask how can they not? And if you can not observe the reaction to an action, why not?_

 

It is not so easy to prove a negative, that is why it is a lot simpler to prove what is true, and can be measured, instead of what is not true and can not, but not even after applying this logic, anybody have been able yet, so why asking me for a miracle of trying to prove what is a lot harder? Even less while I do not need it, I do not sell them, and I do not need to convince any customer that my cables do have an impact...

 Also you are beginning this argument stating that why different power cords can have an effect, so for you that is a fact, they have an impact, just that it is a fact that nobody have been able to prove yet...LOL...

 Also actually I never asked how *different* power cords can have an effect, or different effects, what I asked was why a power cord (any) stock cheap, hospital grade, computer grade, expensive or cheap, should have any effect, as to me, and to my limited knowledge, I was not able to find any logic explantion, and even less a scientifically based one, for that effect to be there, but if you can offer one, I will gladly take it...but what I will not take anymore, is that is there becasue I hear it, sorry...I do not...so what???


----------



## Acoustic Chef

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *weeeeesquirrel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Came across this and wondered if anyone had taken one for the team and tried this out? I searched forums and was surprised nothing posted about it... anyone???



 Product Link:
Musicdirect - CARDAS - AYRE ACOUSTICS (IBE) BURN-IN CD_

 

Track 4 scares me.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry if I confused you Sov I was just trying express that real common sense would not be so hasty to immediately discard such claims.

 Now don’t get me wrong, I'm probably not going to go out and buy this to get rid of magnetic fields, but at the same time I’m probably not going to rule out that it is complete BS and call everyone stupid because I don’t understand or agree with his claims or theories.


----------



## OverlordXenu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *883dave* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's odvious you have never had a high performance muscle car with a big block motor that knocks and pings with regular or to a degree premium gasoline. 

 The only thing I found to stop the knock and ping was the gasoline additive "Octane Boost"

 Also where I live and work we regularly use an additive called gasline antifreeze...it keeps any water in the tank from freezing in the lines

 You might want to stick to topics you actually have knowledge about_

 

I was talking about the ones that claim to raise MPG or reduce emissions. Next time, take the time to read my post before flaming me.


----------



## 883dave

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was talking about the ones that claim to raise MPG or reduce emissions. Next time, take the time to read my post before flaming me._

 

The octane boost did raise the MPG...made the engine run better


----------



## yotacowboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was talking about the ones that claim to raise MPG or reduce emissions. Next time, take the time to read my post before flaming me._

 


 Next time maybe you should just not post misinformed drivel. Simply put, I don't think you know what you're talking about with regards to gas additives. It's not flaming, it's calling you out when you post misinformed or untrue statements.

 gas additives largely function to change the combustion temperatures within the cylinder. There are many changes to both the volumetric efficiency, the exhaust temperatures and the composition of non-combusted exhaust "gases" as a result of changing the combustion temperatures. In many electronically controlled engines, the ECU will "see" these changes and use different fuel maps, which may lean out the engine (less gasoline injected into the cylinder), slightly increasing MPG, and changing the composition of the combusted "gases". Increasing the volumetric efficiency of the engine will, in fact, raise the MPG, too (more work done with the same amount of fuel), tho the amount is largely dependent on an engine's current state of tune (number of hours, maintenance cycle, etc). Many gas additives also contain chemicals which act as detergents (simple bases) which can remove/break down jellied gasoline or other gunk within the fuel delivery system, and on fuel injected vehicles, clean the injectors to some extent. All these things are beneficial to increasing the efficiency of the engine, and could quite feasibly increase the MPG, and/or change the composition of the exhaust.


----------



## OverlordXenu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yotacowboy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Next time maybe you should just not post misinformed drivel. Simply put, I don't think you know what you're talking about with regards to gas additives. It's not flaming, it's calling you out when you post misinformed or untrue statements.

 gas additives largely function to change the combustion temperatures within the cylinder. There are many changes to both the volumetric efficiency, the exhaust temperatures and the composition of non-combusted exhaust "gases" as a result of changing the combustion temperatures. In many electronically controlled engines, the ECU will "see" these changes and use different fuel maps, which may lean out the engine (less gasoline injected into the cylinder), slightly increasing MPG, and changing the composition of the combusted "gases". Increasing the volumetric efficiency of the engine will, in fact, raise the MPG, too (more work done with the same amount of fuel), tho the amount is largely dependent on an engine's current state of tune (number of hours, maintenance cycle, etc). Many gas additives also contain chemicals which act as detergents (simple bases) which can remove/break down jellied gasoline or other gunk within the fuel delivery system, and on fuel injected vehicles, clean the injectors to some extent. All these things are beneficial to increasing the efficiency of the engine, and could quite feasibly increase the MPG, and/or change the composition of the exhaust._

 

CBC Marketplace: Platinum Fuel Injectors - News article disputing gas additive.
Appeal of P.S. Docket No. 10/1 -- JOEL ROBINSON d/b/a NATIONAL FUELSAVER CORPORATION - Appeal for the banning of the sale of a gas additive denied.
ABC News: Gas Savers: Myths and Secrets - A doohiky gas saver and the platinum thing mentioned above...Called BS, again.
Fuel saving gadgets - a professional engineer's view - Oh my, what is that? Another page refuting the above?
Fuel saving gadgets - a professional engineer's view - Another page from the above site, more specific to the kinds of gas additives I was trying to talk about.

 I'm the one spreading misinformation?


----------



## weeeeesquirrel

With names like Cardas & Ayre on the cover of the cd, I really assumed at least one copy of the cd would have passed through at least of couple people's systems here. Looking forward to testing out my late X-mas presents from Sovkiller 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





!!! I will definitely check them out and post impressions. Couldn't hurt... what's the worst thing that could happen??? I play the demagnetizing track too loud and all the magnets fall off my refrigerator 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




... actually that would be pretty cool!!! I'd pay twenty bucks for a cd that could do that!!!


----------



## weeeeesquirrel

When I finish playing with them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




... I say anyone who wants to satisfy their curiosity (or skepticism) should be next on the mailing list. Whoever wants a shot at them just post and say so. We can just use the posting order as a list and when the next person finishes with them they can toss them in the mail to whoever is next.


----------



## weeeeesquirrel

Or, I could just forward them to SkyLab for a good checking out... seeing how he is the _'Reviewerus Prolificus'. _


----------



## Acoustic Chef

Where can I download so I can burn myself a copy..>?


----------



## MrScary

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *weeeeesquirrel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Came across this and wondered if anyone had taken one for the team and tried this out? I searched forums and was surprised nothing posted about it... anyone???



 Product Link:
Musicdirect - CARDAS - AYRE ACOUSTICS (IBE) BURN-IN CD_

 

I only have one thing to say.. I burn in all my stuff wicth Purple noise.. and its the best


----------



## weeeeesquirrel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrScary* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I only have one thing to say.. I burn in all my stuff wicth Purple noise.. and its the best_

 

_*Purple Noise???*_ Is that a Prince Album???


----------



## AdamP88

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Acoustic Chef* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not a believer I'm an observer; an observer that can not explain why you think the way you do, when you say things that you just said. But you did say them did you not? 
 Now, if I couldn't read; is it now fact that you didn’t express you can’t hear some things?

 Your CD3000's sound different then your UE9 do they not? Why do they sound different? Why does any thing sound different? Why do things smell different? Why are things different shapes? 
 Because there are laws for everything in existence, algorithms that determine reactions to actions (life). 
 If you change copper wire to play dough how can that not have a variant outcome?_

 

This is such incredibly poor logic that it's pointless trying to refute it. 

 If you're going to have the audacity to charge as much for a set of cables as a new car, then I would hope you'd have a more rational argument than that.


----------



## Michael_B

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Acoustic Chef* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where can I download so I can burn myself a copy..>? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I would sign up on the list from squirrel, then rip and seed these out on the 'net but it's not worth the time or bandwidth 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Granted, there are a couple of tracks that might be used along with some other tools to set up a system, but come on.. an 'out of phase' track so that you can drive your speakers louder without making too much noise???
 The only thing you might do is play this puppy too loud and blow out a driver, an amp, or your ears.

 ROFLMAO at this thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW...
 you could do worse... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Spend $100 on this
Musicdirect - PURIST AUDIO ENHANCER CD REV-B


----------



## Kang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *colonelkernel8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If a developer doesn't even know how or why their product works, why the hell would you believe that it does? Because they said so?_

 

Not commenting positively or negatively about the CD, the logic of your statement escapes me. We don't know how gravity works, but it does. We don't fully understand the how the human brain functions, but it does. The list goes on and on, in many, many fields of scientific exploration.

 Perhaps, just perhaps, some products may work even though reason why is elusive. 

 The question here is simple. For those with direct experience with the Cardas/Ayre disk, does it work as represented or not?


----------



## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not commenting positively or negatively about the CD, the logic of your statement escapes me. We don't know how gravity works, but it does. We don't fully understand the how the human brain functions, but it does. The list goes on and on, in many, many fields of scientific exploration._

 

May I ask what logic scapes you? We are talking of a commercial product, and what you mentioned, the gravity and brain funtions, are not, and I hope that the "other many fields of scientific exploration" do not sell anything to you neither if they are not backing their claims, at least with something credible. If you are going to make profits out of something, IMO the less you can do, is at least make it credible...even if it is not...


----------



## Kang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sovkiller* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_May I ask what logic scapes you? We are talking of a commercial product, and what you mentioned, the gravity and brain funtions, are not, and I hope that the "other many fields of scientific exploration" do not sell anything to you neither if they are not backing their claims, at least with something credible. If you are going to make profits out of something, IMO the less you can do, is at least make it credible...even if it is not..._

 

Your posts distract from the issue at hand - does the Cardas/Ayre CD perform as represented?

 Yes, some commercial products do work, but the science behind them is not fully transparent. 

 With all due respect, broad, sweeping statements such as yours often fail the test of scrutiny. If you wish to engage in a cognitive discourse, root your statements in fact, not flapdoodle.


----------



## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your posts distract from the issue at hand - does the Cardas/Ayre CD perform as represented?

 Yes, some commercial products do work, but the science behind them is not fully transparent. 

 With all due respect, broad, sweeping statements such as yours often fail the test of scrutiny. If you wish to engage in a cognitive discourse, root your statements in fact, not flapdoodle._

 

No they do not...period...they can't, and they in practice do not... 

 With all due respect, what you have to do is first read the whole thread, as apparently you have not, (and BTW your post make even less sense to everybody than mine as you are talking of things that are not related to this topic at all, and comparing apples to oranges) you will see that probably I'm one of the very few that do have tried this prdiuct, and not only thing one, Densen Demagic, the MDMS from Shefield labs, and many others in that same cathegory, that were even backed with a lot more scientific explanations, all of them, are IMO a load of BS...I even offered, and sent, the OP copies of some of them, free of charge, to try them and report back the results...


----------



## Acoustic Chef

Yes Sov... enough with your _flapdoodling_





...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess some people are just more in-tuned to there surroundings, while others live there lives in a clueless slumber of numbness. 
 OMG! I've just discovered the true definition of intelligence. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW: I don't think gravity will ever be fully understood or explained, probably because it doesn't exist.


----------



## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Acoustic Chef* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes Sov... enough with your flapdoodling






...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess some people are more in-tuned to there surroundings, while others live there lives in a clueless slumber of numbness. 
 OMG! I've just discovered to true definition of intelligence. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I think that you are a better philosopher that salesman!!!!


----------



## fordgtlover

Well - here's another thread going the same old way.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Acoustic Chef* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_snip

 I guess some people are just more in-tuned to there surroundings, while others live there lives in a clueless slumber of numbness. 
 OMG! I've just discovered the true definition of intelligence. 

 snip_

 

So, people who question a claim such as* "We don't completely understand how it works, but trust us…it does!"* are the clueless ones?

 Man, I hope you never go out alone in a big city. I bet you believe that the customer who wins at the three-card Monte table really is a stranger.


----------



## Acoustic Chef

Well if the guy didn't say his power 1 on his RPX-33 offered nothing over stock... maybe I would hold him, and his opinions in higher regard. 

 The power 1 on my RPX-33 made me bawl like a baby. This was the cable that made me fight for this job. 
 It was such an inspirational masterpiece I decided it was now my life goal to share my experience with as many as I possibly could. So when a guy comes to me and says he heard absolutely nothing, then to see him spitting this that and the other is complete BS as well…. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am not a sales man, I am not commission based, I do this on my own free time.

 And I don't run into any problems wandering big citys at night, I can take care of myself.


----------



## fordgtlover

OK, so he didn't hear the improvement that you did using an expensive power cable. So now all his opinions are invalid and he's spitting BS? Sounds a bit juvenile really.

 I am genuinely pleased that you heard such an improvement that you have become a proponent for certain cables. Perhaps my ears are not good enough because I have never heard a difference in decently made cables. That doesn't mean that I have an axe to grind with people who say they can hear a difference.

 If I, or others, can't hear a difference in cables that to some make such an obvious difference, why would there be any reason to think that a CD that purports to remove built up magnetism in a system would offer a discernable benefit? Working on the assumption that removing the magnetism is a good thing. Surely, if there are any benefits they are likely to be impossibly small.

 I'm not a EE so I don't really know, but I would have thought that if there was any benefit to removing magnetism, and it could be done by playing a CD, manufacturers around the world would simply advise us to pop in the 'tune-up' CD occassionally and keep your system running in top shape.

 I have had some of my audio equipment for twenty years and it still sounds fine to me. No obvious problem with magnetism build up here.


----------



## Acoustic Chef

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fordgtlover* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK, so he didn't hear the improvement that you did using an expensive power cable. So now all his opinions are invalid and he's spitting BS? Sounds a bit juvenile really._

 

na, this is what I was referring to.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sovkiller* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_all of them, are IMO a load of BS..._


----------



## fordgtlover

^

 fair enough - my mistake


----------



## weeeeesquirrel

K... I reviewed one of the CD's... I'm taking a nap now...


----------



## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Acoustic Chef* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well if the guy didn't say his power 1 on his RPX-33 offered nothing over stock... maybe I would hold him, and his opinions in higher regard. 

 The power 1 on my RPX-33 made me bawl like a baby. This was the cable that made me fight for this job. 
 It was such an inspirational masterpiece I decided it was now my life goal to share my experience with as many as I possibly could. So when a guy comes to me and says he heard absolutely nothing, then to see him spitting this that and the other is complete BS as well…. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am not a sales man, I am not commission based, I do this on my own free time.

 And I don't run into any problems wandering big citys at night, I can take care of myself._

 

I never stated that, as I do not want to stir things more, but given that you mentioned it, and brought it, and as I would never do it before you...I will answer it...

 Yes it did absolutelly nothing, I tested it with the same track, removing one while the amp was on, and placing the other, in other words in real time, if there was a noticeable difference after listening some time you will notice it, sorry to tell you that I was not even able to determine when the cable was unplugged and the amp was with no power, running out of the caps, and no difference was heard of any kind...not even a click a pop, nothing, this power supply is completelly inmune to any anomaly from the line except maybe a big drop in voltage for some time, period!!!

 Later on I tested it for some time, and replaced them, same result, as a side note I hooked my Quail in a power conditioner/UPS, and after a surge protector to make thing even worst for it, the VD was hooked in the wall directly...I tested all scenarios...

 I can tell you with no remorse that the only thing I got from that stupid stiff cable, was a broken outlet, period....I do not use stock cables, I use Quails that are not the last word in cables but very well done, and custom ordered to our specs by us, in a group buy, we ran some time ago, total cost $15.00 (not sure if you know that Quail make thier living selling only power cords), if they don't know what they doing, who knows??? You??? 


*Now about the topic in question the Densen CD for now....*

 Wee I have a quick observation, did you listen to the CD while playing it, or you just let it play, and later on tried it again with the music CD?

 I'm asking because if you listen the track, that track is a completely loud dull track of 3 minutes, after listening this garbage for 3 minutes (and I say garbage because it is not pleasant at all to be heard) any music well recorded that you play after will sound like in the heaven it is a psychoacoustic effect...try to listen the music CD, the remove the headphones from your head, and play the Densen, and then listen again the CD, avoid listening the track, OK? That will give you a more accurate approach...

 I have tried it for about a thousand times, trying to justify keeping it, and trust me that is does absolutely nothing to my ears, same as the rest of them...at least the others has some useful tracks, but that only happen if you concentrate only in the music and avoid to listen that stupid track...


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## chesebert

I want to be on the mailing list. if not I will just get the CD..pm me.

 THX!!

 Looking forward to testing.


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## weeeeesquirrel

No, I didn't sit and listen to the 'garbage'. I listened to it the first time to make sure it wasn't distorting my drivers or anything and to make sure the sound level was equal to my music listening level. I had zero expectations and like I stated I didn't even know what was supposed to occur. The only reason I posted a review of it was because I was absolutely positive of what I heard. I am a skeptic, but I am not in one camp or the other. If something does something... great, if it doesn't... than it doesn't... I stated I don't believe most would be able to discern any difference or appreciate the difference. Even though I describe everything in great detail, it doesn't mean what I hear is drastic. I've only used it with the equipment I listed and will try it with my home equipment and probably my sister's lower end stuff when I visit her. Maybe in a non-headphone listening environment I will notice nothing. Didn't mean to freak you out... like I said, I just took my time, did it the same every time, and just listened every time. This was my experience and it was consistent. Remember, this is music I know quite intimately. Music I've probably used during every critical listening session I have ever done since I was 14. So I completely trust my ears when they hear what they heard.


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## Sovkiller

I'm also pretty sure of what I heard, how many time do you think I have played those CDs? Also remember that they are supposed to work if you have any of the problem they are supposed to treat and remove, as they state, like a residual magentic stray field, etc...but if you do not have any, they are supposed to be inert, same as power conditioners...if you do not need to condition the power, it will do nothing. Same as water filters, you treat a water from a bottle that is supposed to be completelly pure, and you will have the same water at the end...My system is not so humble, aslo I have owned them for years and tried them in differentones, all my tests are reported same results...but if you find them useful...good, at least you will use them...


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## weeeeesquirrel

Sovkiller,

This is completely off topic... but it's my thread so I really don't care
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Holy &^%##@@!!!!! Your posts are in the 5 digit realm (over 11,000)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*WOW... that's a lot of posts... I'll probably never reach the 11,000 word level
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


*


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## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *weeeeesquirrel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sovkiller,

This is completely off topic... but it's my thread so I really don't care
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Holy &^%##@@!!!!! Your posts are in the 5 digit realm (over 11,000)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*WOW... that's a lot of posts... I'll probably never reach the 11,000 word level
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


*_

 

Well indeed to post a bunch of crap is pretty easy, specially ifyou are hanguing here from 2002, now to post things that are really worthy and helpful is another thing, unfortunatelly for me I'm not that smart......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 One thing is sure, trust me that I have seen a lot of change of opinions and tendencies here, ones for good, other for worst...


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## Tgun5

Playing track seven on the CD every couple weeks does have an effect of "clearing things up" for a lack of better terms. Play a selection on any CD, put on track 7, then play the same selection again. You will notice better detail immediately after playing this track. Problem is, it's positive effect slowly diminishes possibly by the second song, the end of the CD, or the end of the week - who knows. The improvement is slight and not permanent, so your system slowly reverts back to it's state before using the Ayre CD. Whatever the reason is that the the Ayre improves the sound (remove magnetism?), this same reason does not cause a high-end system to slowly degrade to a boom box. So what's the point? Regardless of what I hear, I'm not going to use the Ayre every few songs to get a small, non permanent change.


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