# Chord Mojo vs ipad/iphone



## Roybenz

Anyone tried comparison between mojo and iphone 7 or newer ipad? I can't seem to spot much difference. The mojo seems a little darker in some tracks. Using tidal hifi. Anyone know anything about general sound quality output from iphone/ipad/imac?


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## Cannabase

Don't know if I'm answering your question, but I find the mojo sounds really good with my Macbook pro and my PC.  When I hook it up to my iPad Air 2(using camera connector), I'm quite disappointed to be honest.  The sound just seems really bland on the ipad for some reason.  I thought that it should technically sound the same since the DAC/AMP gets the same audio file information and spits out the same sound. But there is definitely a noticeable difference. 
  
 I am using SE 535s when I'm listening and I'm using Tidal because it's the only way to get HQ music (that I know of) on my iPad.


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## Music Alchemist

To my ears, the Mojo sounds _many times_ better than conventional DACs. I don't use Apple, though.


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## Jimster480

The Chord Mojo will run circles around any Apple product.
 Apple products have mediocre at best sound output and very little actual amp power.
 They also downsample music (i believe there are some workarounds) and play things at 16bit/22khz (I think this is it).
  
 I notice the difference with my 1More Triple Driver & my Panasonic RP-HT360's with my iTouch 6G and my HTC 10 and my FiiO K1. The iPod sounds the worst of the 3 (and the 6G iTouch is said to be the best sounding apple device by some).


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## Roybenz

It depends what you use. I have tried for hours with Sennheiser ie800. It's really hard to point out difference when running them through mojo or direct from iphone7/ipad air2. I would never have been able to point out mojo in a blind test. When trying with he1000v2 it's a different case and much difference. They're much harder to drive then ie800.


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## AlanU

My iphone 6+ sounds better than my wifes iphone7 w/ 3.5mm female lightning dongle. 
  
 The Apple dongle actually sounds substantially "thinner" and if my memory recalls more similar to my old android Note 4 which was a step down from my iphone 6+.
  
 I guess my question would be the headphones your driving. Are they efficient? IEM's??
  
 I know my recent visit to my local headphone shop I was excited to test the Dragonfly Red. With my Denon MM400 the sound quality was not much of an improvement over my 3.5mm output from my iphone 6+. I actually think it sounded noticeably worst as the DFR seemed like all of the music from Tidal hifi was lifeless. I tested ifi nano iDSD and it actually seemed marginally better but still remained "thin". I tried the Peachtree shift and it suddenly made my Tidal stream more engaging with rich sweet mids, pleasant treble but not enough to give big airy soundstage. Soundstage was "nice". The peachtree put the Dragonfly red to severe shame as I tried to crank the volume on the DFR. The peachtree could potentially rip my eardrums to cause deafness. 
  
 So the issue I have is the physical size of the mojo for portable use. The Dragonfly RED is truly "MEH" with my Denon MM400 so i'd rather plug my headphones directly to my Iphone 6+. This is where so far a reasonably priced Peachtree shift can run most of my headphones I own with no problems. 
  
 When I upgrade my iphone to and iphone 8+ in the future I'll really consider an apple approved product Peachtree shift. I'll be auditioning an RHA Dacamp L1 for thin form factor. 
  
 I see so many people on the mojo band wagon. Cool product but like any audio product it all comes down to intended use and personal preference to sound signature. 
  
 If your happy with apples output ...... be happy


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## Jimster480

alanu said:


> My iphone 6+ sounds better than my wifes iphone7 w/ 3.5mm female lightning dongle.
> 
> The Apple dongle actually sounds substantially "thinner" and if my memory recalls more similar to my old android Note 4 which was a step down from my iphone 6+.
> 
> ...


 

 I think this really depends on the quality of your headphones. The Headphones you mentioned were noted to have a very V shaped signature (in some other threads on this forum) and not very clear highs. I found that the iPod output was very good with headphones like these (such as RP-HT360 & WA Jawbreakers) but very bad once I moved into the 1More TD especially but still respectable on the RP-TCM 125's.
 I personally don't have a mojo but I have a HTC 10 which many have said is 85-95% as good as a mojo and its a night and day difference.
 But you are right, if you are "used to" that sound signature then you will be bias towards what you are conditioned to.


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## Music Alchemist

roybenz said:


> It depends what you use. I have tried for hours with Sennheiser ie800. It's really hard to point out difference when running them through mojo or direct from iphone7/ipad air2. I would never have been able to point out mojo in a blind test. When trying with he1000v2 it's a different case and much difference. They're much harder to drive then ie800.


 
  
 I haven't heard either of those, but I have heard the original HE1000. Anyway, even with my cheapo Koss KTXPRO1, I can easily tell the Mojo apart from the DAC in my Alienware M11x R2 laptop. (And in the past I could _not_ tell the Schiit Modi 2 apart from the laptop's DAC!) It's actually easier for me than with the Elear because I'm a lot more familiar with how the sound of the Koss changes on different systems.


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## Roybenz

It really bothers me that I can't hear any difference between ipad and mojo. Anyone got any songs I could try?


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## Jimster480

roybenz said:


> It really bothers me that I can't hear any difference between ipad and mojo. Anyone got any songs I could try?


 

 What headphones?


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## Roybenz

I have sennheiser ie800 and he1000v2


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## Music Alchemist

roybenz said:


> It really bothers me that I can't hear any difference between ipad and mojo. Anyone got any songs I could try?


 
  
 It's best to use songs you are most familiar with, as long as you listen to enough genres.


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## mag3472

cannabase said:


> Don't know if I'm answering your question, but I find the mojo sounds really good with my Macbook pro and my PC.  When I hook it up to my iPad Air 2(using camera connector), I'm quite disappointed to be honest.  The sound just seems really bland on the ipad for some reason.  I thought that it should technically sound the same since the DAC/AMP gets the same audio file information and spits out the same sound. But there is definitely a noticeable difference.
> 
> I am using SE 535s when I'm listening and I'm using Tidal because it's the only way to get HQ music (that I know of) on my iPad.



You must realize when using streams like tidal, Pandora ect you are using and receiving a compressed file no matter what they say. It will never sound as good as a direct file from your PC and or player! It will sound better but not like if you playing it from your own files. Also Apple products always have issues playing with other products, they don't play well with others lol.


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## Jimster480

mag3472 said:


> You must realize when using streams like tidal, Pandora ect you are using and receiving a compressed file no matter what they say. It will never sound as good as a direct file from your PC and or player! It will sound better but not like if you playing it from your own files. Also Apple products always have issues playing with other products, they don't play well with others lol.


 
 Compressed files are fine. Spotify Extreme is OGG VBR ~320kbps. Honestly that is basically as close to FLAC as you can get and virtually indistinguishable from FLAC even on high end headphones or speakers.


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## mag3472

jimster480 said:


> Compressed files are fine. Spotify Extreme is OGG VBR ~320kbps. Honestly that is basically as close to FLAC as you can get and virtually indistinguishable from FLAC even on high end headphones or speakers.



Yes I understand but you still don't get the 320k. 320 from a personal file that has been done correctly is basically the same as a FLAC. Not from a stream you still lose something no matter what, close yes.


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## Jimster480

mag3472 said:


> Yes I understand but you still don't get the 320k. 320 from a personal file that has been done correctly is basically the same as a FLAC. Not from a stream you still lose something no matter what, close yes.


 

 No sorry, you get 320kbps when you are streaming period.
  
 Its TCP transfer which means packets are not lost.
  
 Because its going over the internet doesn't mean you don't get that quality.


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## mag3472

jimster480 said:


> No sorry, you get 320kbps when you are streaming period.
> 
> Its TCP transfer which means packets are not lost.
> 
> Because its going over the internet doesn't mean you don't get that quality.



Really? So no buffering? No lag spikes? Ect all the normal problems internet connections suffer, all internet providers state this fact not guaranteed. It will show up as 320 but is it? Not guaranteed! You have WiFi interference, Bluetooth, radio and all other forms of interference that come with streaming. This is why we spend so much money with insulated cables and high end filters and such, but it's close, never said it's bad quality.


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## Jimster480

mag3472 said:


> Really? So no buffering? No lag spikes? Ect all the normal problems internet connections suffer, all internet providers state this fact not guaranteed. It will show up as 320 but is it? Not guaranteed! You have WiFi interference, Bluetooth, radio and all other forms of interference that come with streaming. This is why we spend so much money with insulated cables and high end filters and such, but it's close, never said it's bad quality.


 

 Buffering is buffering, it has nothing to do with lost bits.
 It has to do with making sure that your audio spools incase your net drops a bit (especially while driving or something).
 Do you know what happens if there aren't enough bits? Then the audio pauses or stops.
  
 If you have something like spotify on "automatic" it will automatically step down to the lower bitrate if your network connection is suffering.
  
 If you have it set on Extreme then it will not, you will get 320kbps~ VBR and if you cannot transfer those then your music will not play, it will simply just stutter.
  
 Your internet connection speed not being guarenteed has to do with the speeds of other networks you connect to, I suggest you read up a bit on network topology and how the internet works vs claiming that streaming is just lower quality than your local PC (which isn't the case).


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## mag3472

jimster480 said:


> Buffering is buffering, it has nothing to do with lost bits.
> It has to do with making sure that your audio spools incase your net drops a bit (especially while driving or something).
> Do you know what happens if there aren't enough bits? Then the audio pauses or stops.
> 
> ...



So you get the same sound from your pc on a stream as you would from a file on your PC. Hmmm? OK


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## Music Alchemist

mag3472 said:


> So you get the same sound from your pc on a stream as you would from a file on your PC. Hmmm? OK


 
  
 As long as the relevant factors are the same. (Same master of the recording, same bit rate, no botched conversions, etc.)


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## mag3472

music alchemist said:


> As long as the relevant factors are the same. (Same master of the recording, same bit rate, no botched conversions, etc.)



Please explain to the guy who made this post, why he can't hear the difference between his ipad and his chord mojo. I would love to know myself. This way I can be better informed and know myself.


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## Music Alchemist

mag3472 said:


> Please explain to the guy who made this post, why he can't hear the difference between his ipad and his chord mojo. I would love to know myself. This way I can be better informed and know myself.


 
  
 Oh, I have no way of knowing. There are all sorts of potential reasons.
  
 In post #5 he did say that he could hear the difference with one headphone. (Whereas I hear the difference with every headphone...though like I mentioned, I don't use Apple products at this time.)
  
 The only way to know which differences you will hear with any piece of equipment is to hear it for yourself.


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## turkayguner

mag3472 said:


> You must realize when using streams like tidal, Pandora ect you are using and receiving a compressed file no matter what they say. It will never sound as good as a direct file from your PC and or player! It will sound better but not like if you playing it from your own files. Also Apple products always have issues playing with other products, they don't play well with others lol.


 
 Songs are compressed "in size" not in quality if you play on hifi mode with the hifi subscription. And you even get album masters in 96kHz / 24bits when using the desktop app. You can compare both Tidal version and original masters (yes, some artists give away free 96/24 masters on their sites as downloadable files). I did not do the tests for myself, because I do hear the difference when I stream the non hifi versions on my mobile phone and get back home, switch to my desktop MQA library.
  
 For example, I had the original Pink Floyd CDs ripped as 44/16 wav files. Uncompressed. The day Tidal gave access to MQA library, firstly listened the Division Bell album from start to end. Man.. If you have even some decent ears, it is impossible to not to hear the difference between 44/16 original CD and 96/24 Tidal MQA versions.
  
 So how come Tidal having some mysterious compression in quality? You know what, it does not.


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## Jimster480

turkayguner said:


> Songs are compressed "in size" not in quality if you play on hifi mode with the hifi subscription. And you even get album masters in 96kHz / 24bits when using the desktop app. You can compare both Tidal version and original masters (yes, some artists give away free 96/24 masters on their sites as downloadable files). I did not do the tests for myself, because I do hear the difference when I stream the non hifi versions on my mobile phone and get back home, switch to my desktop MQA library.
> 
> For example, I had the original Pink Floyd CDs ripped as 44/16 wav files. Uncompressed. The day Tidal gave access to MQA library, firstly listened the Division Bell album from start to end. Man.. If you have even some decent ears, it is impossible to not to hear the difference between 44/16 original CD and 96/24 Tidal MQA versions.
> 
> So how come Tidal having some mysterious compression in quality? You know what, it does not.


 

 This is exactly what I was telling him.
 It all depends on the sources.
  
 Now I will say with Spotify that often with more mainstream music they have other editions which are not as good quality wise.
 But with many of the lesser-played music the quality is superb in extreme mode (high quality on desktop client) w/ ~320kbps OGG VBR.
 A friend of mine who is a long seasoned audiophile tested out Spotify with his high end setup and said that it is virtually indistinguishable from FLAC tracks in 95%+ of situations.
 Those situations most likely arise from the actual sources used by Spotify pre-encode time.


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## turkayguner

Well, Spotify is whole another story, for me at least. I subbed to Spotify for like 2 years. Loved it a lot (still love the multi device integration and ui better than Tidal) But I did not think there was any difference in quality between 192kbps and 320kbps streams in Spotify except the data usage. That was why I stuck using it 192kHz during my sub period. And after trying out Tidal hifi with the free trial, sadly cancelled my Spotify premium sub. I suspected that if there was a 192 to 320kbps reconversion going on or I don't know.. Well, I AM pretty sure Tidal is giving the advertised quality to their subs. Because as always, I trust MY ears.


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## Jimster480

turkayguner said:


> Well, Spotify is whole another story, for me at least. I subbed to Spotify for like 2 years. Loved it a lot (still love the multi device integration and ui better than Tidal) But I did not think there was any difference in quality between 192kbps and 320kbps streams in Spotify except the data usage. That was why I stuck using it 192kHz during my sub period. And after trying out Tidal hifi with the free trial, sadly cancelled my Spotify premium sub. I suspected that if there was a 192 to 320kbps reconversion going on or I don't know.. Well, I AM pretty sure Tidal is giving the advertised quality to their subs. Because as always, I trust MY ears.


 

 I think that it depends on what you are listening to, and its gotten better with the stuff I listen to.
 I can tell the difference between high and extreme on my phone (HTC 10).


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## turkayguner

jimster480 said:


> I think that it depends on what you are listening to, and its gotten better with the stuff I listen to.
> 
> I can tell the difference between high and extreme on my phone (HTC 10).




Well, then compare the same song in Spotify extreme vs Tidal high quality which both claims they are 320kbps of audio streams. Listen carefully to high and low ends of the spectrum. And also listen to the soundstage. You will notice the difference, it's like night and day. It was, for me, at least.


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## Jimster480

turkayguner said:


> Well, then compare the same song in Spotify extreme vs Tidal high quality which both claims they are 320kbps of audio streams. Listen carefully to high and low ends of the spectrum. And also listen to the soundstage. You will notice the difference, it's like night and day. It was, for me, at least.


 

 Tidal is supposed to be FLAC, no?

 Really would depend on what the songs were.
  
 Tbh for me the point is moot since I wouldn't ever use a service like Tidal anyway. Its expensive as hell for literally nothing, has a horrible collection of music and poor device support aswell as a really shoddy interface and terrible playlists.
  
 Its only really for people who spend time all day to make their own playlists and want to listen to the very small library that Tidal has. This is part of the reason my friend went back to Spotify aswell, the library is just too small to make it worth more than $5/mo.


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## Music Alchemist

turkayguner said:


> Well, then compare the same song in Spotify extreme vs Tidal high quality which both claims they are 320kbps of audio streams. Listen carefully to high and low ends of the spectrum. And also listen to the soundstage. You will notice the difference, it's like night and day. It was, for me, at least.


 
  
 They could be derived from different masters, though, in which case it would easily sound different. The only proper comparison of this stuff is to take a lossless file, convert it to 320 kbps MP3 with a program like dBpoweramp, then do a controlled listening test. (This can't be done with online streaming.)
  


jimster480 said:


> Tidal is supposed to be FLAC, no?
> 
> Really would depend on what the songs were.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I spent tens of thousands of dollars on music (mostly CDs) and kind of wish these high quality music streaming services existed long ago.
  
 Spotify Premium: $9.99/month. 320 kbps. Over 30 million tracks.
 TIDAL Premium: $9.99/month. 320 kbps. Over 40 million tracks.
 TIDAL HiFi: $19.99/month. Lossless. Over 40 million tracks.
  
 If Spotify seems to have a larger library, it's only because it happens to have more artists you were looking for.
  
 Both of them are an insanely good value compared to spending so much money on each album via other mediums. (CD, vinyl, downloads, etc.) I mean, it's only the cost of an album or two per month, and you get to listen to countless albums.


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## Jimster480

music alchemist said:


> They could be derived from different masters, though, in which case it would easily sound different. The only proper comparison of this stuff is to take a lossless file, convert it to 320 kbps MP3 with a program like dBpoweramp, then do a controlled listening test. (This can't be done with online streaming.)
> 
> 
> I spent tens of thousands of dollars on music (mostly CDs) and kind of wish these high quality music streaming services existed long ago.
> ...


 

 They must have expanded their library alot in the last 1.5 years, because when i tried them last time I searched and searched and honestly didn't really find anything that I listened to other than some of my classical stuff.
 Even alot of the Jazz I listen to was missing and nevermind R&B and electronic music... even in the Rap department there was very little (especially in 1995-2005 rap) which is mostly the type of rap i listen to.
  
 I do pay $15/mo for Spotify family though and we have 3-4 accounts on there so its a much better value than $20/mo for lossless but $10 for 320kbps is also good.
  
 Maybe if it continues to grow I will try it again in the future.


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## turkayguner

jimster480 said:


> Tidal is supposed to be FLAC, no?
> 
> 
> Really would depend on what the songs were.
> ...




Tidal has different sub plans. You get lossless audio with hifi sub only. Is it expensive? Hell no. You get unlimited access to CD quality and even studio quality 96/24 music. That is value. I agree with you about playlists. But you can look at this anoher way. It pushes you to make your own unique playlists.


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## Jimster480

turkayguner said:


> Tidal has different sub plans. You get lossless audio with hifi sub only. Is it expensive? Hell no. You get unlimited access to CD quality and even studio quality 96/24 music. That is value. I agree with you about playlists. But you can look at this anoher way. It pushes you to make your own unique playlists.


 
 Yea I am just someone without time to do such things. I've had Spotify for years and have made about 3-4 playlists.
 My only one I actually work on is my Rap playlist, since rap has gotten so bad most of the Spotify Rap playlists are just filled with trash.
  
 But even that I have been working on for months now and only has like 85 tracks, I am really busy with my family and business.


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## theveterans

turkayguner said:


> Well, Spotify is whole another story, for me at least. I subbed to Spotify for like 2 years. Loved it a lot (still love the multi device integration and ui better than Tidal) But I did not think there was any difference in quality between 192kbps and 320kbps streams in Spotify except the data usage. That was why I stuck using it 192kHz during my sub period. And after trying out Tidal hifi with the free trial, sadly cancelled my Spotify premium sub. I suspected that if there was a 192 to 320kbps reconversion going on or I don't know.. Well, I AM pretty sure Tidal is giving the advertised quality to their subs. Because as always, I trust MY ears.


 
  
 Ironically, Spotify premium (160 - 320 kbps) sounds better than Tidal HiFi to my ears. Tidal HiFi sounds "too hard/edgy" while Spotify sounds natural and lifelike.


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## Jimster480

theveterans said:


> Ironically, Spotify premium (160 - 320 kbps) sounds better than Tidal HiFi to my ears. Tidal HiFi sounds "too hard/edgy" while Spotify sounds natural and lifelike.


 

 I actually recently found some songs on amazon music that sounded even better than Spotify. I wonder if they have a new "high quality" level.
  
  
 The majority of the playlists still seem to sound worse but these specific albums of electronic music sounded much better compared to the same ones on spotify.


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## turkayguner

theveterans said:


> Ironically, Spotify premium (160 - 320 kbps) sounds better than Tidal HiFi to my ears. Tidal HiFi sounds "too hard/edgy" while Spotify sounds natural and lifelike.




I guess HS7s deliver more details in high freq area with Tidal, that might be the reason.


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## Music Alchemist

All these reported differences in sound between the streaming services makes me glad I already have too much music to keep up with in my own collection.
  
 As for the original thread topic... @Roybenz, if you could try volume-matching between sources with your HE1000, it would give you a better idea of things. (This would only work up to a certain volume, of course.)


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## theveterans

turkayguner said:


> I guess HS7s deliver more details in high freq area with Tidal, that might be the reason.


 
  
 Yep. There's like a DSP thing going on with Tidal when I listen to it. Treble is more upfront while on Spotify, it's just right at least with the HS7s. Treble details IMO is about the same, just that aggressiveness in Tidal is what I don't like.


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## Roybenz

music alchemist said:


> All these reported differences in sound between the streaming services makes me glad I already have too much music to keep up with in my own collection.
> 
> As for the original thread topic... @Roybenz
> , if you could try volume-matching between sources with your HE1000, it would give you a better idea of things. (This would only work up to a certain volume, of course.)




How do i preform volume matching?


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## Music Alchemist

roybenz said:


> How do i preform volume matching?


 
  
 Basically just try to make the perceived loudness the same. If you can't get the Apple source(s) loud enough with some tracks, try using other tracks that are loud enough on them, then adjust the volume on the Mojo to be about as loud. There are more precise ways of going about it, but those may require additional equipment. If you have a smartphone, you could download an SPL meter app and measure the loudness of your headphones from both sources to match the volume more closely.


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## Roybenz

I see, i did try to make it the same volume, always do it like that when testing. But i will try with the db meter.


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## Roen

jimster480 said:


> The Chord Mojo will run circles around any Apple product.
> Apple products have mediocre at best sound output and very little actual amp power.
> They also downsample music (i believe there are some workarounds) and play things at 16bit/22khz (I think this is it).
> 
> I notice the difference with my 1More Triple Driver & my Panasonic RP-HT360's with my iTouch 6G and my HTC 10 and my FiiO K1. The iPod sounds the worst of the 3 (and the 6G iTouch is said to be the best sounding apple device by some).


Where did you get 16/22?

I've only heard and seen graphs that the headphone output is capped at 16/44.1


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## Jimster480

roen said:


> Where did you get 16/22?
> 
> I've only heard and seen graphs that the headphone output is capped at 16/44.1


 

 I read about it in another thread where they were talking about iPhone internal processing I would link it if I remembered which one it was.


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## Roybenz

I finally found the difference using HE1000v2, the mojo sounds rounder more controlled and nicer then the iPad, the iPad is harder in sound and the top is more messy. I can't say the same for my ie800, if i really try i can tell a tiny difference in some songs, but its almost not noticeable, these are really easy to drive compared to HE1000v2. I use questyle cma800i for those. The mojo was supposed to go with my ie800, but i won't be keeping it.


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## Roen

jimster480 said:


> I read about it in another thread where they were talking about iPhone internal processing I would link it if I remembered which one it was.




I don't think that's quite accurate and have only seen graphs showing 16/44.1 so am curious if you ever find the thread.


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## Jimster480

roen said:


> I don't think that's quite accurate and have only seen graphs showing 16/44.1 so am curious if you ever find the thread.


 

 I was looking for it last night but I didn't find the posts.
 If I find it I will definitely post it here.
  
 I did find a bunch of posts talking about iPhones and iPods downsampling all music to 16/44.1 despite its original quality


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## Roen

jimster480 said:


> I was looking for it last night but I didn't find the posts.
> If I find it I will definitely post it here.
> 
> I did find a bunch of posts talking about iPhones and iPods downsampling all music to 16/44.1 despite its original quality


That definitely does happen without an external DAC.


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## Jimster480

roen said:


> That definitely does happen without an external DAC.


 

 I have read that it happens even with external dac's too unless you use some specific software I think they had a workaround for it?

 I just started searching for specificalyl what I was writing about and if you google "apple iphone downsampling audio" there are alot of threads even on the apple forums talking about this and how external DAC's are getting 16/44.1 and how they cannot load music on their phones that are past 16/48. Some people have gotten away with doing 24/48 (i think newer iOS) but then reported that it was downsampled.


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## Roen

jimster480 said:


> I have read that it happens even with external dac's too unless you use some specific software I think they had a workaround for it?
> 
> 
> I just started searching for specificalyl what I was writing about and if you google "apple iphone downsampling audio" there are alot of threads even on the apple forums talking about this and how external DAC's are getting 16/44.1 and how they cannot load music on their phones that are past 16/48. Some people have gotten away with doing 24/48 (i think newer iOS) but then reported that it was downsampled.




Similar to Nexus devices, playing with the stock music player will be capped at 16/44.1. You can load 24/48 but it will play at 16/44.1.

If you use Onkyo HF Player on either OS, you can access the full capability of the external DAC. You'll have to load high res files using the iTunes Onkyo interface, instead of the main iTunes music library. With Android, you would just load it through the regular directory structure.


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## Roybenz

Does anyone know about anything else portable that's better than mojo? That would benefit with my ie800?


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## ifunes39

Xduoo xd-05 is The way


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## abirdie4me

Roybenz said:


> Anyone tried comparison between mojo and iphone 7 or newer ipad? I can't seem to spot much difference. The mojo seems a little darker in some tracks. Using tidal hifi. Anyone know anything about general sound quality output from iphone/ipad/imac?



+1

My mojo sounds great with every source I’ve tried it with, but I can’t tell ANY difference when using it with my iPad 10.5 vs. straight out of the iPad headphone jack. I’m not sure if this means the Mojo is providing poorer quality via the iPad, or it’s just that the iPad has a really good dac of its own. I’m running iOS 11 beta 2, but I get the same result via my iPhone 7 Plus on iOS 10.3.3. I’ve listened with Elears, TH-X00, and HD600s, same results on all of them. Tidal, Pandora, and local Apple lossless files via the Apple Music app...same issue.

The only difference I can think of is that the connection to the iPad/iPhone is via the Camera Connection Kit adapter and lightening port, where all other connections are through usb or optical. Not sure if it is an issue on the Apple side, the cable connection, or something in the Mojo. Frustrating, as I bought the Mojo to enhance my iPad music while not in front of my PC.


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## theveterans

The cirrus logic DACs are that good. You pretty much need a good external amplifier to beat the iPad in sound


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## CasperBxl

Maybe combine ... I wrote an article:
*iPhone + Mojo, New stack build with custom cable and custom case*
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ip...uild-with-custom-cable-and-custom-case.22654/


----------



## TWerk

theveterans said:


> The cirrus logic DACs are that good. You pretty much need a good external amplifier to beat the iPad in sound




I had the same issue. Was buying all sorts of DACS/AMPS trying to best the output of my mac, but wasn't hearing any improvement. Huge waste of money when the onboard DAC is just as good.


----------



## Death_Block

Jimster480 said:


> Tidal is supposed to be FLAC, no?
> 
> Really would depend on what the songs were.
> 
> ...


Im a tidal user and im neither a 'make my own playlist' or 'listen to a small library' person


----------



## Jimster480

TWerk said:


> I had the same issue. Was buying all sorts of DACS/AMPS trying to best the output of my mac, but wasn't hearing any improvement. Huge waste of money when the onboard DAC is just as good.


This just wouldn't be the case unless you have horrible headphones or a horrible Amp.
The onboard DAC in a MAC is not that good.


----------



## Jimster480

Death_Block said:


> Im a tidal user and im neither a 'make my own playlist' or 'listen to a small library' person


So then what do you do?


----------



## Death_Block

Jimster480 said:


> So then what do you do?


I listen to hundreds of different songs from counless bands and only pay the price of a cd a month


----------



## Jimster480

Death_Block said:


> I listen to hundreds of different songs from counless bands and only pay the price of a cd a month


Oh I listen to thousands of songs per month from hundreds of artists and pay $5/mo with spotify so I'm good.


----------



## Death_Block

Jimster480 said:


> Oh I listen to thousands of songs per month from hundreds of artists and pay $5/mo with spotify so I'm good.


I listen to millions so im better


----------



## TYATYA

Roybenz said:


> Anyone tried comparison between mojo and iphone 7 or newer ipad? I can't seem to spot much difference. The mojo seems a little darker in some tracks. Using tidal hifi. Anyone know anything about general sound quality output from iphone/ipad/imac?



I cant guess there'll be a compare like that. It is not comparable ip sound to most any $150 buged amp or dap as ibasso T5, Dzero any version mk123, shalain m2s...and ofcouse way from $700 like Mojo.
How easy you realize depends on what iem/hp you have.


----------



## TYATYA

Jimster480 said:


> Compressed files are fine. Spotify Extreme is OGG VBR ~320kbps. Honestly that is basically as close to FLAC as you can get and virtually indistinguishable from FLAC even on high end headphones or speakers.



OGG format I have no idea but if AAC, I DO believe as you talk


----------



## Jimster480

TYATYA said:


> OGG format I have no idea but if AAC, I DO believe as you talk


OGG VBR is just like AAC VBR.
The two are comparable and depending on the encoder one beats the other at the same bitrate.
If the two encoders are just as good AAC is SLIGHTLY better at the same bitrate.
But 320kbps OGG VBR is quite close to FLAC.


----------



## TYATYA

Jimster480 said:


> I read about it in another thread where they were talking about iPhone internal processing I would link it if I remembered which one it was.



Surely it's not correct. Bcs 22khz sampling freq can cover max 11khz in output sound


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## TWerk (Sep 17, 2017)

Jimster480 said:


> This just wouldn't be the case unless you have horrible headphones or a horrible Amp.
> The onboard DAC in a MAC is not that good.



Neither is the case, not true at all. The onboard on a mac sounds excellent.

I've owned headphone DAC/AMPS that cost multiples of the budget SMSL stuff you list and MANY headphones that have cost multiple of the IEM's you list in your signature.


----------



## AlanU

I'm assuming the iphone 6 with dedicated headphone jack has a very good DAC. I've been quite pleased with this setup. Due to the new iPhone 8 and X I've purchased a Canadian made headphone amp "Peachtree Shift".  It is definitely a step up when I use tidal on my iphone 6+. Now I can easily run my modified HD800 with my Peachtree/iphone combo. The only reason why I picked up the Peachtree is because I'm prepping to purchase a new iPhone soon...... 

The iphone lightning headphone adapter provided with the new phone is flat and lifeless. I truly hear a big jump in SQ with my iphone 6+ with internal DAC. 

I really enjoy the sound signature of the Peachtree and I just cannot justify spending more on a Mojo for my iphone 6+. Once I get the new iphone I'll revisit my new Peachtree acquistion. 

Next month the new headphone amp from MYTEK will be good discussion. See if that's a Mojo killer. 

If ipad retains a headphone jack I think it'll still sound great with the internal dac and and amp is not really necessary for good quality streaming pleasure.


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## Roybenz (Sep 17, 2017)

TYATYA said:


> I cant guess there'll be a compare like that. It is not comparable ip sound to most any $150 buged amp or dap as ibasso T5, Dzero any version mk123, shalain m2s...and ofcouse way from $700 like Mojo.
> How easy you realize depends on what iem/hp you have.



It was when using my ie800. With he1000v2  the difference is enourmous. But with my ie800 its almost no difference.


----------



## Jimster480

TWerk said:


> Neither is the case, not true at all. The onboard on a mac sounds excellent.
> 
> I've owned headphone DAC/AMPS that cost multiples of the budget SMSL stuff you list and MANY headphones that have cost multiple of the IEM's you list in your signature.


Congrats on wasting tons of money for no real gains.
Now you come back and say that the Mac DAC "sounds great"?
Its just a standard Cirrus Logic chip, Apple puts 0$ R&D into their products already so its whatever design comes right off the shelf with no modification.


----------



## Bla4444

Roybenz said:


> Anyone tried comparison between mojo and iphone 7 or newer ipad? I can't seem to spot much difference. The mojo seems a little darker in some tracks. Using tidal hifi. Anyone know anything about general sound quality output from iphone/ipad/imac?


Hi. It is a strange question. I read here a very nice reviews witch said there is not big difference if any between chord hugo and iphone out. This surprised me soo much that i start a thread " chord hugo is not better than iphone headphone out? Wow". To my further surprise this information is more or less confirmed. In this case it seems obvious that iphone out is much better than chord hugo. Errr realy confusing.....


----------



## Roybenz

If you have hard to drive headphones, it would make a big difference. But with sennheiser ie800 its almost no difference imo.


----------



## AlanU

Jimster480 said:


> Congrats on wasting tons of money for no real gains.
> Now you come back and say that the Mac DAC "sounds great"?
> Its just a standard Cirrus Logic chip, Apple puts 0$ R&D into their products already so its whatever design comes right off the shelf with no modification.



The beauty of subjective chatter is that everyone has a preference. No right or wrong when it comes to what a person likes.

Apple puts substantial money into R&D..... how else do they produce the iPhone 8 and X virtually at the same exact time. Please note  I use apple products with no real emotional attachments. I'm not jaded as a phone is a phone/tool and nothing more. However to say Apple does not put $$ in their products is polar opposite.

I have a pair of decent IEM's (PSB M4u4) These are nothing to brag about yet they are easy on the ears as they are not for bass heads. Also the high frequency roll off does not trigger my tinnitus. 
When I use them with my iphone 6+ they sound detailed enough but not hyper detailed. The convenience in plugging in these IEM's is great. I've auditioned plenty of different portable headphones and they all have different sound signatures just like different models of headphones........it's all about Synergy!

Now that I'm more observant I see plenty of people with Campfire audio's Andromeda's being used with their older gen iphones or even android phones. The signature green buds display to the world that $$$ has been spent but I've observed them settling with streaming music with their phones. Certainly others will use dedicated players too. No one is right or wrong.

Disposable income is just used to buy toy gadgets that are nice to have. Enjoying music is not a need to have....... just one of the simple luxuries or is it a "First world problem" especially for Millennial gen.

The only person that must be pleased in their audio gear is the individual........

3 words...audition, audition and audition. People will never know until they measure SQ with their personal ears.


----------



## theveterans

AlanU said:


> Now that I'm more observant I see plenty of people with Campfire audio's Andromeda's being used with their older gen iphones or even android phones. The signature green buds display to the world that $$$ has been spent but I've observed them settling with streaming music with their phones. Certainly others will use dedicated players too. No one is right or wrong.



You're quoting me here lol. Yep I get plenty of smile faces when I plug my CA Vegas straight to iPhones and to my Surface Pro laptop. Zero EMI/RFI noise issues mind you.


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## TWerk (Sep 17, 2017)

Jimster480 said:


> Congrats on wasting tons of money for no real gains.
> Now you come back and say that the Mac DAC "sounds great"?
> Its just a standard Cirrus Logic chip, Apple puts 0$ R&D into their products already so its whatever design comes right off the shelf with no modification.



Lol. Yeah, 0 R and D from Apple. Right. They just took whatever comes off the shelf and became one of the biggest portable music device manufacturers out there (Iphone/Itouch/Ipad).

Check out this article below which is, an in depth review on an Iphone 5. Specifically, the intro and conclusion sums things up nicely!

http://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/iphone-5/audio-quality.htm


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## AlanU

theveterans said:


> You're quoting me here lol. Yep I get plenty of smile faces when I plug my CA Vegas straight to iPhones and to my Surface Pro laptop. Zero EMI/RFI noise issues mind you.



We Agree 

Today I had a moment to just do some comparison  between my iPhone 6+ with Denon MM400 headphones vs my portable Peachtree Shift. I'm aware that this thread  is comparing to a Mojo. However my point is that when listening to comfort levels that is not damaging the ear drums the iPhone 6+ I have vs my Peachtree there is VERY LITTLE difference in SQ. I'm absolutely 100% certain that even if there is a difference it's not worth the cost of the Mojo. 

There is probably an enjoyable difference but if you had to analyze your wallet vs SQ difference ........... You can appreciate the onboard DAC with built in headphone Jack in the existing apple products. 

I've heard FLAC from Astell&Kern, ifi, fiio and pretty much all of the portable offerings at my local headphone shop and they can all sound good. 

It's Human nature is to justify a purchase. Some are blunt and will say it's a marginal upgrade and some will glorify a purchase due to cost $$$$$ 

I've listened to the Audeze Sine with cipher cable and it sounded lifeless with no musical characteristics while my iPhone 6+ sounded ever so slight marginally less detail but more musical. I threw those same exact Sine headphones on a higher end Astell & Kern player and it transformed into a much more cleaner sound but my subjective ears found it having an analytical sound. The less superior dac found in the Peachtree shift amp kinda surprised me in how lush with just enough detail to satisfy musically . 

I tested the Red dragon fly with my Iphone 6+ and it was mediocre at best. I found it as gritty and not refined just like my old Samsung Note 4 internal DAC /headphone jack. The factory inboard DAC in the iPhone worked really well compared to spending money on a Red dragon fly.  

I could have purchased the MOJO many times but for the cost and SQ difference with my iPhone 6+ I did not see a need. Now that I'll be buying either the iPhone 8+ or "X" I cannot and will not use the factory lightning / 3.5mm jack adapter. The built in dac in that apple adapter is garbage IMO. 

I'll be looking forward in comparing my reasonably priced Peachtree shift vs the new upcoming Mytek headphone amp (Cheaper street price than Mojo). 

I still enjoy HP's but it's definitely a cheaper audio "fix" than 2 channel hifi stereo. 

I think anyone really curious should test a friends iphone 6 series or Apple portable device and compare with a dedicated portable amp. The only crucial question is the type of headphone your testing. My HD800 is easier to drive compared to an HE 560 or HE 400i  with my power Peachtree amp. IEM buds should sound great with the Apple products with dedicated jack. 

Really it comes down to satisfying your own ears. No one else to impress but yourself.........


----------



## Jimster480

AlanU said:


> The beauty of subjective chatter is that everyone has a preference. No right or wrong when it comes to what a person likes.
> 
> Apple puts substantial money into R&D..... how else do they produce the iPhone 8 and X virtually at the same exact time. Please note  I use apple products with no real emotional attachments. I'm not jaded as a phone is a phone/tool and nothing more. However to say Apple does not put $$ in their products is polar opposite.
> 
> ...


I can't blame you for not wanting to lug around a DAC.
My HTC 10 is perfect for when I want to listen on the Go and my FiiO K1 is my traveling DAC for my laptop.

But Apple really doesn't do much for R&D and this has shown year after year as they are far behind all of their competitors and most of their dollars are going into marketing.


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## TWerk (Sep 17, 2017)

AlanU said:


> We Agree
> 
> Today I had a moment to just do some comparison  between my iPhone 6+ with Denon MM400 headphones vs my portable Peachtree Shift. I'm aware that this thread  is comparing to a Mojo. However my point is that when listening to comfort levels that is not damaging the ear drums the iPhone 6+ I have vs my Peachtree there is VERY LITTLE difference in SQ. I'm absolutely 100% certain that even if there is a difference it's not worth the cost of the Mojo.
> 
> ...




Indeed, the onboard of an Iphone or macbook device is just as good as way more expensive alternatives, this really surprised me too... Huge waste of money for a no difference.

That stuff must just be made for people who don't own apple stuff!!

Not only does it sound better but it's less hassle than running through another device only to downgrade the SQ. Spend those hard earned dollars on something other than placebo effect!


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## Jimster480

TWerk said:


> Indeed, the onboard of an Iphone or macbook device is just as good as way more expensive alternatives, this really surprised me too... Huge waste of money for a no difference.
> 
> That stuff must just be made for people who don't own apple stuff!!
> 
> Not only does it sound better but it's less hassle than running through another device only to downgrade the SQ. Spend those hard earned dollars on something other than placebo effect!



This really depends on your ears and what headphones you have.
Overall the amp that comes in apple products is decent but its all cheapie off the shelf stuff.
Not to say that, that stuff cannot sound good. There are many super high priced audio products that do not deliver in this day in age.


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## EarDrumExplode

I use my mojo with my iPad Pro 9.7 and recently upgraded the USB cable that came with it to a 1ft silver dragon (100 + hours break in) from moon and it really pulls the most out those 16 / 24 tracks from iTunes. It shines with movies though. The original cable was really bad not just sound but quality I Still don't get why they put such horrible cables with portable amps. I still have waiting for someone to upgrade the apple camera cable.


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## Jimster480

EarDrumExplode said:


> I use my mojo with my iPad Pro 9.7 and recently upgraded the USB cable that came with it to a 1ft silver dragon (100 + hours break in) from moon and it really pulls the most out those 16 / 24 tracks from iTunes. It shines with movies though. The original cable was really bad not just sound but quality I Still don't get why they put such horrible cables with portable amps. I still have waiting for someone to upgrade the apple camera cable.


USB data is digital and you cannot get "cleaner 1's and 0's". 
The only difference in cables is if one cable doesn't have shielding at all and you have high EMF for some reason. This will cause drop outs/dips in your music but "quality" will not be altered other than these obvious annoying drops/pops/etc.

Any $5 cable would do just the same as your special magic silver cable. Just letting you know so you don't go around spreading false information to others who in turn spend their money on the same things.


----------



## EarDrumExplode

Jimster480 said:


> USB data is digital and you cannot get "cleaner 1's and 0's".
> The only difference in cables is if one cable doesn't have shielding at all and you have high EMF for some reason. This will cause drop outs/dips in your music but "quality" will not be altered other than these obvious annoying drops/pops/etc.
> 
> Any $5 cable would do just the same as your special magic silver cable. Just letting you know so you don't go around spreading false information to others who in turn spend their money on the same things.





Jimster480 said:


> USB data is digital and you cannot get "cleaner 1's and 0's".
> The only difference in cables is if one cable doesn't have shielding at all and you have high EMF for some reason. This will cause drop outs/dips in your music but "quality" will not be altered other than these obvious annoying drops/pops/etc.
> 
> Any $5 cable would do just the same as your special magic silver cable. Just letting you know so you don't go around spreading false information to others who in turn spend their money on the same things.


False info? My posts reflect my opinion. 1's and 0's, emf I'm okay with that but would would you drink water from a rusty pipe or a nice clean one?


----------



## AlanU

Jimster480 said:


> USB data is digital and you cannot get "cleaner 1's and 0's".
> The only difference in cables is if one cable doesn't have shielding at all and you have high EMF for some reason. This will cause drop outs/dips in your music but "quality" will not be altered other than these obvious annoying drops/pops/etc.
> 
> Any $5 cable would do just the same as your special magic silver cable. Just letting you know so you don't go around spreading false information to others who in turn spend their money on the same things.



Very subjective view. I look at usb cables as a path. Every cable can "work" but there can be some differences. I guess this topic can be touchy.......... No my concern what people spend their money on 

Convenience of not using a amplifier is so nice. When I use my laptop I like using my portable headphone amp.  

I know some can get ultra critical with headphone use. I'm more concerned with my 2 channel stereo compared to my portable use headphones.


----------



## Jimster480

EarDrumExplode said:


> False info? My posts reflect my opinion. 1's and 0's, emf I'm okay with that but would would you drink water from a rusty pipe or a nice clean one?


A rusty pipe and you drinking water has literally NOTHING to do with cables and transferring data.
USB cables do not affect audio quality unless one of them is damaged/not shielded. And when that happens you get drop outs / pops in your music not "reduced quality" because that is NOT POSSIBLE with Digital data.
You cannot get a "fuzzy signal" like analog TV's or a radio station.


----------



## TWerk

Jimster480 said:


> USB data is digital and you cannot get "cleaner 1's and 0's".
> The only difference in cables is if one cable doesn't have shielding at all and you have high EMF for some reason. This will cause drop outs/dips in your music but "quality" will not be altered other than these obvious annoying drops/pops/etc.
> 
> Any $5 cable would do just the same as your special magic silver cable. Just letting you know so you don't go around spreading false information to others who in turn spend their money on the same things.




I think cables can also effect impedence or something of that nature. Like Tyll measured the imp of the cable included stock with the fidelio X1 and suggested everyone replace it with something else because it made the bass more loose and boomy.

(That's headphone cable though, not usb cable)


----------



## Jimster480

TWerk said:


> I think cables can also effect impedence or something of that nature. Like Tyll measured the imp of the cable included stock with the fidelio X1 and suggested everyone replace it with something else because it made the bass more loose and boomy.
> 
> (That's headphone cable though, not usb cable)



Impedance yes and that can sometimes affect the sound signature especially depending on the output device. But for USB impedance doesn't mean anything since signals don't require specific voltages and the information is digital.


----------



## AlwaysForward

Yup: USB Cables carry information and power but not sound itself. The information is a digital sequence of 1/0. Unless the cable is broken and no longer carrying information, it will not affect what the information sounds like upon delivery to the "client" side.


----------



## Dvdlucena

Roybenz said:


> I finally found the difference using HE1000v2, the mojo sounds rounder more controlled and nicer then the iPad, the iPad is harder in sound and the top is more messy. I can't say the same for my ie800, if i really try i can tell a tiny difference in some songs, but its almost not noticeable, these are really easy to drive compared to HE1000v2. I use questyle cma800i for those. The mojo was supposed to go with my ie800, but i won't be keeping it.


Same here
I’m having a hard time with stack, iPhone plus mojo plus cables... just tried my iPad Pro, the mojo it’s 5-10% better... using shure 846
I’m selling mojo and going to try another dap, maybe the Sony signature series will be a step up


----------



## Dvdlucena

abirdie4me said:


> +1
> 
> My mojo sounds great with every source I’ve tried it with, but I can’t tell ANY difference when using it with my iPad 10.5 vs. straight out of the iPad headphone jack. I’m not sure if this means the Mojo is providing poorer quality via the iPad, or it’s just that the iPad has a really good dac of its own. I’m running iOS 11 beta 2, but I get the same result via my iPhone 7 Plus on iOS 10.3.3. I’ve listened with Elears, TH-X00, and HD600s, same results on all of them. Tidal, Pandora, and local Apple lossless files via the Apple Music app...same issue.
> 
> The only difference I can think of is that the connection to the iPad/iPhone is via the Camera Connection Kit adapter and lightening port, where all other connections are through usb or optical. Not sure if it is an issue on the Apple side, the cable connection, or something in the Mojo. Frustrating, as I bought the Mojo to enhance my iPad music while not in front of my PC.


Same here... I’m so pissed. Mojo it’s a little better, but hey... I don’t know if it justify the trouble of a stack and the mojo price...


----------



## Bla4444

There is a review here in headfi about the hrt idsp. It claims it is better than the iphone out. It is under 100 $ and if i consider the results of theese discussions it must be better (sq wise) than mojo. ( Altough it is hard to belive).


----------



## Jimster480

AlwaysForward said:


> Yup: USB Cables carry information and power but not sound itself. The information is a digital sequence of 1/0. Unless the cable is broken and no longer carrying information, it will not affect what the information sounds like upon delivery to the "client" side.



I'm glad to find someone else who understands


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## AlanU (Sep 24, 2017)

I think we typically have some form of justification when it comes to $$$$ purchases. There's something definitely disturbing the idea that Mojo should be destroying the iPad/apple products but sadly it's not. Seems this little IQ difference is depending on the IEM/headphones used.

The discussion of some saying it's worlds different is fine as well because the subjective ears in those individuals must only please their personal eardrums....not others 

So in other words subjective matter is only important to the person themselves.

I am just appreciating what my iPhone provides me. Possibly Android users (I use both) can't imagine an Apple product is "more than decent" for sq.

I'll say that i do not personally own a Mojo. However I do think if there's situations where I want to use my iPhone to stream at my kitchen table it's easier to put my hd650, Hd800 or even inexpensive 400i  using my Peachtree shift amp. I know my laptop and iPhone cannot provide high quality SQ using some Headphones.

However I'm now thinking of buying an iPhone 8+ or "X" and then lug my iPhone 6+ with headphone jack instead of lugging my Peachtree amp. After testing so many portable amps i just "settled" with happiness with the SQ the Peachtree produces with Tidal stream. Goes to show I am still in quite disbelief that an apple product is quite good for ridiculous simplicity.  Iphone 7 with factory lighning 3.5mm headphone adapter is just unacceptable though....


----------



## Swiftfalcon

There is difference between iPad Pro 9.7  and mojo. Mojo has slightly wider soundstage, better instrument separation and better dynamic range.


----------



## Dvdlucena

Swiftfalcon said:


> There is difference between iPad Pro 9.7  and mojo. Mojo has slightly wider soundstage, better instrument separation and better dynamic range.


Yeah... but no 590 dollars difference.


----------



## sumeet3011

hello.... was planning to buy mojo when i stumbled upon this thread
Agreed ipad sounds almost as good as my AP100 dap with se846 and martian. I will even say with 846 it sounds better


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## Swiftfalcon (Oct 4, 2017)

sumeet3011 said:


> hello.... was planning to buy mojo when i stumbled upon this thread
> Agreed ipad sounds almost as good as my AP100 dap with se846 and martian. I will even say with 846 it sounds better


Comparing sound quality against iPad new potential buyers of mojo may be in for a disappointment after shelling out $600 especially if they didn’t audition it. That said I own both and always reach for the mojo over iPad especially when listening to orchestral music. Ipad mushes up the bass notes, coalesces instrument passages playing simultaneously and gives the image of the orchestra confined to a corridor. Granted these effects are subtle but once you appreciate them the music fails to engage. Ipad is miles ahead of my windows pc though.


----------



## ThomasHK

I think the main take-away is this: audible differences between different devices/accessories can be ordered like this

Headphones >> amp > dac >>>>>> cable 

Yes, there can be audible difference between amp/dacs but for those expecting WOW moments, you're out of luck. If your most important part of the chain (headphones) sucks, no DAC/amp will make it dramatically better. If your headphones are great, improving the source will make small improvements, if any.


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## Swiftfalcon (Oct 10, 2017)

For skeptics try listening to this track

Lockdown, Transformers: Age of Extinction

Pay attention to bass note defintion and depth, blackness of background, the absence of grating with the distortion bass notes, the separation of the bowed instrument at 1:20

All this on mojo in comparison to ipad


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## Ike1985

If you can't tell a difference between Mojo and apple products you need better headphones or better hearing.


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## AlanU

Ike1985 said:


> If you can't tell a difference between Mojo and apple products you need better headphones or better hearing.


I think many can hear a difference but questioning justifiable cash outlay especially since convenience plays a huge factor. 1 device instead of two devices.


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## mag3472 (Oct 11, 2017)

Ok i have been doing some research and some tinkering. This is what i found out and have noticed. From a phone stand point you can use OTG cable to get it to work, but the only thing is that you get a better and noticeable difference on Onkyo hf Player. I been doing A-B for many hrs. streaming does not get the full performance, Tidal, pandora ect. On streaming there is a significan diiference, just sounds off. If you just use the default player, you will not hear a big or much difference.  Same go's with a PC, I have also tried Nero player and Power Amp. these are good but i hear a significant difference on the onkyo HF. On PC i would recommend JRiver over Foobar, if you have the MOJO or any DSD player you can take advantage on JRiver. Jriver can input MP3,FLAC ECT and output it though DoP as DSD 2.5 or 5.6  you can also do this for your phone with the Onkyo HF player   Try this and see if you hear a difference.


----------



## chillaxing

Ike1985 said:


> If you can't tell a difference between Mojo and apple products you need better headphones or better hearing.



Belittling members this way is not condoned on this forum.  Just because people have better things to do on a weekend than to sit at home with $8k worth of gear to listen for minute differences between them doesn't mean they have bad hearing or bad gear.  with the tech that is out now a days, the difference between $400 equipment and $1000 equipment isn't that far apart anymore.


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## Blaze182 (Oct 12, 2017)

FWIW I believe the Mojojojo is better than the iPhone 7.

I've used Apple iPhones since the original, so I am well familiarised with the sound quality. I use Hibiki 3.9 to play ALAC - its cool, cause it tells you what its outputting. When I use iPhone 7s as source, I can't get it to output above 48kHz with Fiio or Oppo, or its own dongle; but, plug it into little mental Mojojojo and it outputs upto 384kHz - the sound difference is noticable, 20-30% improvement; wider sound stage, more juice, hard base, crisper sound. Can't say if its right for you - the difference is there, but maybe some people won't feel there is enough difference at the price point.

Edit: Maybe not hard base, its a little more impactful, but, probably due to powering. Overall I think it just outputs better than the iPhone, because I feel the iPhone lacks... hope this helps, just my opinion.


----------



## Roybenz

Ike1985 said:


> If you can't tell a difference between Mojo and apple products you need better headphones or better hearing.



I have no problem hearing big difference when listening with my HE1000V2. But with examlpe ie800 and æon the ipad is almost just as good as the mojo.


----------



## Ike1985

chillaxing said:


> Belittling members this way is not condoned on this forum.  Just because people have better things to do on a weekend than to sit at home with $8k worth of gear to listen for minute differences between them doesn't mean they have bad hearing or bad gear.  with the tech that is out now a days, the difference between $400 equipment and $1000 equipment isn't that far apart anymore.



I listen at work, my weekends are pretty busy. ^_- Sorry if I came off as a jerk, I didn't mean it that way!  Just seems such an obvious difference to me.  Best wishes.


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## Swiftfalcon (Oct 13, 2017)

Roybenz said:


> I have no problem hearing big difference when listening with my HE1000V2. But with examlpe ie800 and æon the ipad is almost just as good as the mojo.


For me iPad is tolerable for ie800, iPhone 7 with lightning adapter intolerable for ie800, mojo of course is great (as claimed on numerous posts on ie800 thread ), I hear ifi idsd black label is as good as mojo for ie800. Never auditioned the black label though.


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## AlanU

For giggles I tried my wife's iphone 7+ again with the Apple lightning adapter...... the dac implementation in that dongle is obviously going to be MEH!!!  The lighting cipher cable on the Audeze Sine to me is not a very good lifeless analytical sound imo also.

I can see people having ruffled feathers when someone claims an apple product sounds very good in comparison to the Mojo. I'm the odd one but I really like the sound of my Peachtree shift amp with it's warmer organic presentation but I also feel that with the high efficient headphone/IEM my iphone 6+ with headphone jack does a very good job for semi critical listening on the RUN. 

If your starting to talk about critical listening I think a full size headphone with a excellent source and desktop amp is more of an ideal combo. Anyone using a portable headphone amp or smartphone is very likely on the run/go so this is where I would assume non critical listening or chill enjoyment is involved. 

In my case I do most of my headphone listening at home while editing photos but I'll do more critical listening to my 2 channel hifi system with more holographic experience.

Not ideal but even my Peachtree higher powered amp can give me adequate SQ with my HE 560 which are not very efficient. The mojo isn't that expensive but I'd justify spending more money on a home desktop amp vs an expensive portable amp. This is one reason I "settled" for a cheaper extremely capable  portable amp made in CANADA !! 

However like anything in life everyone has their individual "thing" and have preferences. I still feel headphone world is one of the cheapest approach in incredible high quality sound vs the 2 channel hifi world. Iphone (with built in headphone jack)  or Apple product is a good example of great bang for the buck in the Audio world  for something that is as ordinary as crest toothpaste or a toaster oven. I have my iphone sitting in my pocket and it does amazingly well with my on the go listening in a convenient package.

When I get my iPhone X or 8+ I may also just even lug my old iPhone 6+ as a portable setup instead of lugging my headphone peachtree amp to be used with my new phone.


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## theveterans

Never in my experience one I’ve heard the iPhone’s output (starting with 5c) is analytical. Sometimes it sounds a bit soft depending on your HP. I find that entry level DAC amp have a more analytical taste to them to show superior detail retrieval yet they are devoid of musicality


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## bvng3540

Ok I just received my mojo with cable accessories pack, when first hook up with my iPhone 7+ it work fine for couple minutes and message pop up say it not compatible, and stop working, my iPhone 7+ is on the latest iOS, so I tried the mojo on couple of my friend iPhone with older iOS and it work fine, is there anyway we can get the latest iOS to work with the mojo thanks


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## EarDrumExplode

bvng3540 said:


> Ok I just received my mojo with cable accessories pack, when first hook up with my iPhone 7+ it work fine for couple minutes and message pop up say it not compatible, and stop working, my iPhone 7+ is on the latest iOS, so I tried the mojo on couple of my friend iPhone with older iOS and it work fine, is there anyway we can get the latest iOS to work with the mojo thanks


Try it with the usb cable and camera adapter, that pack or whatever that black block is called, is junk it’s only so your phone lines up better when you go portable


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## bvng3540

EarDrumExplode said:


> Try it with the usb cable and camera adapter, that pack or whatever that black block is called, is junk it’s only so your phone lines up better when you go portable


Yes I did tried that also, still not working, it has to do with the latest iOS


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## Swiftfalcon

Swiftfalcon said:


> For me iPad is tolerable for ie800, iPhone 7 with lightning adapter intolerable for ie800, mojo of course is great (as claimed on numerous posts on ie800 thread ), I hear ifi idsd black label is as good as mojo for ie800. Never auditioned the black label though.


Interestingly iPhone 7 Plus to mojo is disappointing when compared to ipad or PC laptop. Maybe iPhone 7 outputs inadequate power via lightning port or is simply sub par as a music source.


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## Roybenz

Swiftfalcon said:


> Interestingly iPhone 7 Plus to mojo is disappointing when compared to ipad or PC laptop. Maybe iPhone 7 outputs inadequate power via lightning port or is simply sub par as a music source.



Try PC-MOJO and straight out of ipad Jack. And compare. What hp are you using?


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## Swiftfalcon

Roybenz said:


> Try PC-MOJO and straight out of ipad Jack. And compare. What hp are you using?


Oh PC laptop-mojo beats out the iPad headphone jack on any headphone. The difference depends on headphones, genre and recording. I use headphones ranging from cheap soundmagic e10C all the way to Sennheiser HD800S as can be seen in my signature. I m ok listening casually to iPad jack on soundmagic e10C, 1more triple driver, Sennheiser HD598Cs. Beyerdynamic dt770 pro80 and Sennheiser HD650 are ok if I interpose a headphone amp ie ipad ->amp->headphones. With Sennheiser ie800, HD800S and hifiman he400i I need the mojo/hugo2 sourced by PC laptop/ iPad.


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## Roybenz (Oct 22, 2017)

Swiftfalcon said:


> Oh PC laptop-mojo beats out the iPad headphone jack on any headphone. The difference depends on headphones, genre and recording. I use headphones ranging from cheap soundmagic e10C all the way to Sennheiser HD800S as can be seen in my signature. I m ok listening casually to iPad jack on soundmagic e10C, 1more triple driver, Sennheiser HD598Cs. Beyerdynamic dt770 pro80 and Sennheiser HD650 are ok if I interpose a headphone amp ie ipad ->amp->headphones. With Sennheiser ie800, HD800S and hifiman he400i I need the mojo/hugo2 sourced by PC laptop/ iPad.




So you hear a difference with ie800 from mojo vs straight from Jack on ipad? Do you have some examlpe of tracks? Would love to hear the difference between mojo-ipad and ipad alone. Have been trying hard but can only on some tracks hear a tiny difference with ie800.


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## Swiftfalcon

Roybenz said:


> So you hear a difference with ie800 from mojo vs straight from Jack on ipad? Do you have some examlpe of tracks? Would love to hear the difference between mojo-ipad and ipad alene. Have been trying hard but can only on some tracks hear a tiny difference with ie800.


I had mentioned this on an earlier post as an example 

Lockdown, Transformers: Age of Extinction
Pay attention to bass note defintion and depth, blackness of background, the absence of grating with the distortion bass notes, the separation of the bowed instrument at 1:20

On most albums by Hans Zimmer, Steve Jablonsky, junkie XL, Ramin Djawadi and like composers, I can notice the differences.


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## AlanU

Roybenz said:


> So you hear a difference with ie800 from mojo vs straight from Jack on ipad? Do you have some examlpe of tracks? Would love to hear the difference between mojo-ipad and ipad alene. Have been trying hard but can only on some tracks hear a tiny difference with ie800.



I think the whole point is the little difference in some cases in SQ.  The quick run to the grocery store or while waiting for my daughters piano lesson my iPhone is extremely impressive.  

Critical listening is a whole different thing when you get into spending $$$$ in this hobby. Spending little $$$$ reaps enjoyable music vs open air 2 channel stereo or elaborate theatre configurations.

Convenient apple products is a good solution for portable phone already in your pocket.


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## Roybenz

I just got the iPad pro 10,5. Its Even better then the air 2. SQ is really Nice. Testing with aeon.


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## _wednesday

Does yours still work with the mojo, on the latest iOS version?
Audio cuts out on mine after a minute or so. 



Roybenz said:


> I just got the iPad pro 10,5. Its Even better then the air 2. SQ is really Nice. Testing with aeon.


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## Roybenz

_wednesday said:


> Does yours still work with the mojo, on the latest iOS version?
> Audio cuts out on mine after a minute or so.



Yes it works.


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## _wednesday

What cable/s do you have on? I use a meenova lightning-to-micro USB cable which worked fine before on an iPhone 6s+. 

I'd like to know if the official Apple CCK (USB3) would fix the issue or not; I'm confused now after reading statements that say both yes it will and no it won't.


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## Swiftfalcon

_wednesday said:


> What cable/s do you have on? I use a meenova lightning-to-micro USB cable which worked fine before on an iPhone 6s+.
> 
> I'd like to know if the official Apple CCK (USB3) would fix the issue or not; I'm confused now after reading statements that say both yes it will and no it won't.


I use Apple CCK3 + generic usb A to microusb B combination from iphone7plus and iPad Pro 9.7 to chord mojo and Hugo 2. I am running IOS 11.0.3. No issues so far


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## Roybenz

_wednesday said:


> What cable/s do you have on? I use a meenova lightning-to-micro USB cable which worked fine before on an iPhone 6s+.
> 
> I'd like to know if the official Apple CCK (USB3) would fix the issue or not; I'm confused now after reading statements that say both yes it will and no it won't.




I am using the original usb cable that came with, and the apple camera connector usb. Works nice. Was most supprised that the iPad Pro 10,5” and the mojo sound so alike. Maybe a 5% difference in mojo being better, softens and darkens the sound a tiny little bit.


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## Hooster

Roybenz said:


> Maybe a 5% difference in mojo being better, softens and darkens the sound a tiny little bit.



Are you sure that is "better"?


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## Roybenz

No  it sound very much like the same


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## Bla4444

Haha. Good news. This means i no need to go for the mojo. My hrt dsp sound quite better than the iphone 6s, soo i am almoast sure that it is better than mojo too. Not bad for an under 100$ device.


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## leftside

If you have DSD files and a player like the HF Onkyo you'll notice a difference.


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## LouisArmstrong

My iPhone X doesn't seem to recognise the Mojo (or the other way round). Is that my Mojo's problem or is it a problem in general?


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## Swiftfalcon

LouisArmstrong said:


> My iPhone X doesn't seem to recognise the Mojo (or the other way round). Is that my Mojo's problem or is it a problem in general?


Are you using Apple CCK 3?


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## donkeywalker (Dec 29, 2017)

Ah what an coincident, I just did a Mojo vs MacBook Pro. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-mojo-vs-macbook-pro-touchbar-2017.868566/ and it sounds the same

Has anyone opened mojo and see what’s inside? It sounds like to produce the same sound as the line output you don’t need to have really complex engineering.


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## Thor71

Mojo just arrived for Xmas, paired with Iphone X + Noble X I can hear a difference, mainly in how the mojo put the music all together. The difference is not so much because the Iphone X itself sounds very good but it's still there.


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## phiemon (Jan 5, 2018)

Here is not the Chord Mojo but the Oppo HA-2SE confronted with the iPhone X (with Onkyo HF and KaiserTone) + Campfire Andromeda: I just sent the Oppo back because I can barely notice a difference; it is for me just a bit better mainly on the speaker system in the AMP at high volume and with the IEM in the instrument separation. It is for me not worth to keep it.


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## AHSiegel

Roybenz said:


> Anyone tried comparison between mojo and iphone 7 or newer ipad? I can't seem to spot much difference. The mojo seems a little darker in some tracks. Using tidal hifi. Anyone know anything about general sound quality output from iphone/ipad/imac?



I think a big part of it is going to be HOW we are using the MOJO with the iPad.  I wonder if you are using the Camera Connection, if you are still just using the iPad's DAC and then going through the MOJO.  I'll be getting the POLY next week which should allow me to stream TIDAL at 16/44 (CD quality...but still limited, sadly).  I'll be listening for a difference then.  By using the POLY, you by-pass the iPad DAC completely...


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## Swiftfalcon

AHSiegel said:


> I think a big part of it is going to be HOW we are using the MOJO with the iPad.  I wonder if you are using the Camera Connection, if you are still just using the iPad's DAC and then going through the MOJO.  I'll be getting the POLY next week which should allow me to stream TIDAL at 16/44 (CD quality...but still limited, sadly).  I'll be listening for a difference then.  By using the POLY, you by-pass the iPad DAC completely...


I was under the impression lightning port already bypasses the internal DAC.


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## donkeywalker

Can someone recommend a good connector cable from Mojo to iPhone X?


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## AHSiegel

Dvdlucena said:


> Same here... I’m so pissed. Mojo it’s a little better, but hey... I don’t know if it justify the trouble of a stack and the mojo price...





Swiftfalcon said:


> I was under the impression lightning port already bypasses the internal DAC.


I thi


Swiftfalcon said:


> I was under the impression lightning port already bypasses the internal DAC.


I think you may be right...when I get the setup next week, you can bet that I will be testing the heck out of it in multiple configurations.  I'll even be brining my Ray Samuals Emmeline Shadow into play to see if that adds something to the mix.


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## Roybenz

AHSiegel said:


> I think a big part of it is going to be HOW we are using the MOJO with the iPad.  I wonder if you are using the Camera Connection, if you are still just using the iPad's DAC and then going through the MOJO.  I'll be getting the POLY next week which should allow me to stream TIDAL at 16/44 (CD quality...but still limited, sadly).  I'll be listening for a difference then.  By using the POLY, you by-pass the iPad DAC completely...


I was using the camera cable connection cable. I should go pass ipads dac?


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## AHSiegel

Roybenz said:


> I am using the original usb cable that came with, and the apple camera connector usb. Works nice. Was most supprised that the iPad Pro 10,5” and the mojo sound so alike. Maybe a 5% difference in mojo being better, softens and darkens the sound a tiny little bit.





Roybenz said:


> I was using the camera cable connection cable. I should go pass ipads dac?


I guess it would...I've been reading up on it and it seems like it.  But until I get my Mojo and my Poly, I won't be able to test on my iPad Pro 10.5. But believe me...when I get back to Manila (where they are waiting for me!), I will be testing the heck out of the complete setup and all possible iterations.  I will even throw my RSA Shadow into the mix for good measure.  That should give my Shure SE846s a good workout.    Next week sometime...when I have something, I will post.


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## mag3472 (Jan 10, 2018)

AHSiegel said:


> I thi
> 
> I think you may be right...when I get the setup next week, you can bet that I will be testing the heck out of it in multiple configurations.  I'll even be brining my Ray Samuals Emmeline Shadow into play to see if that adds something to the mix.


The main problem is the player being used or if you are using tidal/Pandora Ect. Many people say its 24/192 in a paid tidal subscription. Yes it does but it stills goes through your default audio source then to your external DAC. this is why it sounds just a little better. The best way is to always use a 3rd party player with your own music files. The best one i found is the Onkyo HF player, fixing the setting for Dop @ 5.2 will improve all your files. Not only your DSD, but mp3 and Flac. I have done this, during my search for DSD play back on foobar. Which foobar doesn't play DSD, it will read DSD and play it but not at DSD. It does say DSD, but not play back. Anyways try Onkyo HF player on your phone and adjust the settings for DSD through Dop @ 5.2. This will improve play back but not if your using spotify Ect only for your audio files Same goes for your PC.


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## Swiftfalcon

mag3472 said:


> The main problem is the player being used or if you are using tidal/Pandora Ect. Many people say its 24/192 in a paid tidal subscription. Yes it does but it stills goes through your default audio source then to your external DAC. this is why it sounds just a little better. The best way is to always use a 3rd party player with your own music files. The best one i found is the Onkyo HF player, fixing the setting for Dop @ 5.2 will improve all your files. Not only your DSD, but mp3 and Flac. I have done this, during my search for DSD play back on foobar. Which foobar doesn't play DSD, it will read DSD and play it but not at DSD. It does say DSD, but not play back. Anyways try Onkyo HF player on your phone and adjust the settings for DSD through Dop @ 5.2. This will improve play back but not if your using spotify Ect only for your audio files Same goes for your PC.


Tidal on iOS devices (not macs) caps at lossless CD level resolution. I ve never seen resolution higher than lossless CD level (ie FLAC/ALAC level) on iOS tidal app. I think when playing through a n external dac connected to the iOS device, the cpu processes the files and sends it via lightning port to the external dac bypassing the internal dac.


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## mag3472 (Jan 10, 2018)

Swiftfalcon said:


> Tidal on iOS devices (not macs) caps at lossless CD level resolution. I ve never seen resolution higher than lossless CD level (ie FLAC/ALAC level) on iOS tidal app. I think when playing through a n external dac connected to the iOS device, the cpu processes the files and sends it via lightning port to the external dac bypassing the internal dac.


Have you tried? Just try it, download onkyo player,  A B from tidal to onkyo Same song, configure settngs on the onkyo to dop and listen. we understand how things suppose to work but sometimes it doesn't. Just try this and you will hear the difference in separation and vocals. Much cleaner and focused. Also on Mac, you can use JRiver.


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## Bla4444

Has anybody compared iphone to ak 380 sound quality wise?


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