# Auzentech X-fi Bravura 7.1 Sneak Peek



## ROBSCIX

Hey guys, there is a new exclusive sneak peak released of the upcoming Auzentech X-fi Bravura 7.1. There are a few design consideration I think would interest many users here. Such as seperate headphone output with proprietary design and replacable opamp. 
 I don't want to give away all the details here so you can have a look Here: Auzentech X-fi Bravura 7.1


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## Ra97oR

Mmm, sounds like a direct response to the Essence and having muti channel on the same card might well drive away some people need the extension on the ST.


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## ROBSCIX

The can amp swappable opamp is very nice touch. I also notice they added a great deal of clearance around the opamp sockets for using dual To-99 modules.

 There is also a secondary digital output for HDMI output.


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## RicHSAD

Good stuff, definitely looking forward to your full review. I wonder how much it'll cost..


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## ROBSCIX

I am eagar to test this baby out. This information is very early in the design cycle.

 I am glad they went back to the full swappable opamps on this card -including the seperate opamp for the headphone section.


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## RagingForces

Robscix,

 Thanks for the preview. I didn't realize you wrote for Guru3d. I've been reading your articles for some time now and didn't realize it. This looks like a killer audio card combining the sound quality of an STX with the X-fi's myriad of capabilities.

 Looking forward to more!


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## RicHSAD

What are the stock op-amps anyway?


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## ROBSCIX

No problem, thx for the kind words.


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## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RicHSAD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What are the stock op-amps anyway? _

 

I think at this point it is undecided as I said this information is farily early in the design cycle.

 They will possibly use something that is generic but still gives really good sound for those who don't change out their amps.
 If I had to guess, I would say LM4562NA/LME4972NA for the Front channel and/or headphone amplifier and some well known generic opamps for the remaining channels.
 You never know they may go with something totally new and high end!


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## ROBSCIX

Would be nice to try a dual LME49710HA for the headphones. Load this card up with LME metal can verison all across the board. As I noticed this card leaves a great del of clearance around the opamps for using larger modules.


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## Kuze

Well this looks damn good, now i won't have to wait for that stupid ST to get release in the states.

 Independent headphone DAC and circuitry, seriously man you gotta love the way us head-fi'ers are getting royal treatment, great times for PC audio.


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## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kuze* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Independent headphone DAC and circuitry, seriously man you gotta love the way us head-fi'ers are getting royal treatment, great times for PC audio._

 

Replacable opamp also for the headphone out. What I also noticed is many cards with heapdheons amplifiers will have the line outs being of higher quality then the headphone output. This card is the opposite, the heapdheons out is the output with the highest quality components and output specs.


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## ear8dmg

EAX4? We're talking the same chip as the PCI-E Xtreme Audio then?

 I'm thinking more home theatre and hi-fi than gaming.


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## Kuze

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ear8dmg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_EAX4? We're talking the same chip as the PCI-E Xtreme Audio then?

 I'm thinking more home theatre and hi-fi than gaming._

 

I was also looking for X-Ram but it appear there is none, i wonder if its the same 20K2 processor that's on the Forte, i still play Battlefield2142 btw.


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## ear8dmg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kuze* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was also looking for X-Ram but it appear there is none, i wonder if its the same 20K2 processor that's on the Forte, i still play Battlefield2142 btw._

 

As above with EAX4, I'm pretty sure it's not. In fact I think it's a new chip - the CA0110. It's the same one Audiotrack are using in their new X-Fi card (according to Wikipedia).


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## SpoolinEclipse

Lookin forward to hear your review Rob, I still havent purchased a better source yet, mainly due to the essence only providing 2.0, I have some Klipsch speakers that I may end up using for certain ocasions so if this new card scores pretty well I think that will be my ideal solution.


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## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ear8dmg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As above with EAX4, I'm pretty sure it's not. In fact I think it's a new chip - the CA0110. It's the same one Audiotrack are using in their new X-Fi card (according to Wikipedia)._

 

This card is not really meant for the hardcore gamer types. It is meant more for the music/movie crowds. You can game with it of course as it support EAX 1,2,3,4 and OpenAL. The modder crowds and headphone crowds I think are the main aim of this product.


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## ear8dmg

I do think it's a shame Creative (and others now) use the X-Fi name for chips that don't meet the full X-Fi spec. It's confiusing for consumers. The Xtreme Audio should't really be called an X-Fi and neither should this. 

 That doesn't make them bad cards - it's just that people will buy them expecting EAX 5 and the rest.


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## ROBSCIX

They can call it a X-fi because it is still using X-fi software.


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## ear8dmg

Renaming hardware with the same capabilities is one of my pet hates. 

 At launch, X-Fi meant EAX5, MacroFX, Elevation Filter and the full version of CMSS-3D. The Xtreme Audio and these new variants offer no benefits for gaming over an Audigy 2 and are arguably worse. Sure there are other features that they share with an X-Fi but it's confusing for consumers. I guess it's creative's product and they can call it what they like (the name being inherited by Auzentech and Audiotrack).

 I wouldn't have had anything against the Xtreme Audio if they hadn't called it an X-Fi. I'm sure it's a nice upgrade over most onboard sound. These Bravuras actually look like really nice cards, especially someone really into music who likes the odd game.

 I get just as annoyed with nVIDIA and their perpetual G92 GPU renaming. Like I said, just one of my own personal pet hats.


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## 43st

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They can call it a X-fi because it is still using X-fi software._

 

Is there anyway that 'gaming mode' can retain audio quality with something like this? My biggest X-fi disappointment is that using gaming features (CMSS-3d only in my case) noticeably reduces audio quality.


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## ROBSCIX

I am unsure as I have not tested the product at this point.


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## Shahrose

Good to see more companies dipping their toe into this market pool. From what I'm seeing though, this doesn't look like it will sound better than the DAC section of the STX, which is all I'm interested in. Its amp section looks more substantial than the STX's though and I guess that's what they were focusing on in the first place. 

 I might buy this to test it out, because all of what I've said above is, without actually listening to the soundcard, just speculation.


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## ROBSCIX

It is really hard to judge based on just specs. You would really need to compare the sources yourself to see which sounds better to you.

 I like the design of the amplifier section on this card though as it allows use to modify the sound signature. I think this may also be a great platform for further modifications.
 Such as power, clocking..filtering etc..


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## mojave

Can one use the headphone output from a card like this as a stereo output to another amplifier? The headphone output looks like it has a higher quality DAC.


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## ROBSCIX

You could sure but it might be frowned upong by some as driving an amplifier form another amplifier si not such a good idea. There were a few guys doing it with another card that had built in amplifier. I would say provided the levels are within line-level spec you shoudl be ok.


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## jalyst

hmm another potential competitor to the ST, just as I'm about to buy it....


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## ROBSCIX

Wait for the reviews then you will be in a better position to know what will work better for you.


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## jalyst

yeah spose, I'd rather not delay much longer on a card though...
 I don't need the card as part of the whole project, but it sure would be nice.


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## ROBSCIX

It is great to have choices. I am looking forward to this card with all it modding options.


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## jalyst

I spose i can just move ahead with the ST....
 Then if this turns out to be a drastic improvement, I can sell it.


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## ROBSCIX

Makes sense, As you have been waiting for it.

 I have some nice high grade opamps I am planning on testing in the headphone output.


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## jalyst

I look forward to more commentary in this thread! 
 Hope it doesn't die out, as I won't be actively chasing developments surrounding this card.
 I'm done with all that...


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## ROBSCIX

Well Auzen has been known to take their time when releasing products partially because of quality control and bug squashing. I think this one will be coming rather soon and as soon as I get more information about this card I will post it here.


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## jalyst

Thanks Rob, you're a legend!


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## ROBSCIX

No problem. Enjoy the information.


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## handover

Wondering if this card will suffer the same fate of the Forte, with no shielding.

 I was all set to buy the Forte but for the whine through headphones many report. Then I was all set to buy a Xonar Essence STX but read about the latency problems.

 I'm currently left with no real options but the Essence ST.


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## jalyst

There's a few alternatives suggested in this thread.
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/an...4/#post6008025
 I haven't investigate them heavily myself...

 Even a few from our resident, & rather committed ST hater! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Personally I think he's a little bit full of it... 
 But I'll leave it you to make your own mind up about that.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *handover* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm currently left with no real options but the Essence ST._


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## ROBSCIX

This card has been released by Auzentech for those interested.


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## jalyst

would like to see some reviews, hopefully comparing it to the ST.
 Thanks for the reminder!


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## dL.

Anyone bought this yet?

 dL


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## forciano

awesome, I would also love to read some reviews on this card. Robscix are you going to review this card by any chance?


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## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *forciano* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_awesome, I would also love to read some reviews on this card. Robscix are you going to review this card by any chance?_

 

 You will have to wait and see.


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## jalyst

tease!


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## ImmortalKenny

Bump.

 I'm interested in buying this card, but I can't find reviews anywhere. Has someone bought one yet?


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## kwang411

I bought this card, installed it on Win7 with the newest drivers, but there's crackling sounds through headphone out. I did some research and apparently this issue existed with the Forte already but there's still no solution to it for Win7, so i returned it for the STX.

 Unfortunate though, because this card sounds very good for its price.


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## ROBSCIX

Where did you buy it?
 Didn't you just say you bought a STX in the other thread?


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## ImmortalKenny

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where did you buy it?
 Didn't you just say you bought a STX in the other thread?_

 

Newegg has them.

Newegg.com - Auzen X-Fi Bravura 7.1 Sound Card - Sound Cards


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## kwang411

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where did you buy it?
 Didn't you just say you bought a STX in the other thread?_

 

I got it at NCIX in canada. 
 Yea, because of the crackling sound i returned it for the STX.


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## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kwang411* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got it at NCIX in canada. 
 Yea, because of the crackling sound i returned it for the STX._

 

Did you see the little switch in the upper left hand corner of the card?
 It is there to prevent certain power and hardware configuration from causing ground loops in the audio hardware. Should have fixed it with a simple flip of the switch.


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## ImmortalKenny

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you see the little switch in the upper left hand corner of the card?
 It is there to prevent certain power and hardware configuration from causing ground loops in the audio hardware. Should have fixed it with a simple flip of the switch.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Oh snap...


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## kwang411

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you see the little switch in the upper left hand corner of the card?
 It is there to prevent certain power and hardware configuration from causing ground loops in the audio hardware. Should have fixed it with a simple flip of the switch.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

What part are you talking about?





 The I/O Mode control?


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## ROBSCIX

The switch is NOT in that picture. Actually it is more of a jumper pin that switches the ground.
 Actually, there are quite a few differences from the actual card to that picture.
 If that is the picture I released in the sneak peak, that is the engineering sample and the production sample varies.


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## christoph1

Any idea's how much this will cost? I am looking forward to seeing the full review


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## ROBSCIX

MSRP: $129.99


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## jalyst

Looking forward to seeing the results from this.
 I hope it doesn't eat the ST, I only just got one!


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## MSmith83

This is my first post here, but I thought I would share my experience now that I've spent a bit of time with this card installed in my secondary PC. The below impressions are from listening to FLAC-encoded music via foobar2000 in WASAPI Exclusive mode. I have hundreds of my CDs and DVD-A discs ripped to FLAC on hard drive, so there was quite the variety in my listening tests. My headphones are the Sennheiser HD595, AKG K702 and Denon D2000.

 My current impression is that the headphone output is underwhelming. Regardless of the output/filter mode used (there are four modes), the card doesn't seem to drive my headphones as cleanly and noiselessly as my Benchmark DAC1 PRE and Denon AVR-4306. Using the stock op-amp, the low-end isn't robust enough for my tastes and I can hear a very slight veil of noise. Furthermore, changing tracks sometimes has the card emit a loud clipping sound. The clipping sound and noise are problems that even my motherboard's onboard analog audio output has not faced.

 On the plus side, the SPDIF output is bit-perfect and supports 44.1, 48 and 96kHz sampling rates at both 16 and 24-bit. HDCD flags pass to my AVR with no problems and there are no issues with dropouts or the like. It is a completely stable, bit-perfect output with no adjustment needed at the driver level.

 As for gaming, this is my first non-onboard sound card in a while that did not have a Creative hardware-based DSP and support for EAX 5.0. That being said, I can honestly say that you aren't missing much with just EAX 4.0 support. Games that support EAX 5.0 or hardware-based EFX audio still sound great with this card's more basic feature set, and ALchemy works very nicely for my 40+ DirectSound3D game collection. Additionally, there is no crackling audio like I sometimes experience with my Creative X-Fi Elite Pro. Despite what some might say, this is still a good gaming card.

 All in all, I will keep the card in my secondary PC since I like its digital output and will hope Auzentech releases the HDMI upgrade as promised so I can digitally output my multichannel music rips. I do wish for the headphone implementation to be improved upon.

 I hope this helps, but remember that your mileage may vary.


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## ROBSCIX

What HDMI upgrade are you talking about?


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## MSmith83

I am referring to the auxiliary digital output for HDMI connectivity, which is mentioned on the site. On the final revision of the card, it looks to be through the "DIGITAL EXT" connection. I was under the impression (from affirmation through tech support) that it will be used for a future bracket connection that will allow audio output over HDMI, including multichannel PCM.

 Perhaps you know what Auzentech actually intended to do with it? Is it to simply connect to a graphics card with HDMI pass-through?


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## ROBSCIX

Actually, the internal digital output is just that a S/Pdif output and so is limited by that standard. I am pretty sure I mentioned in my sneak peak that it could be used for HDMI GFX cards. 
 Your right though in that you can just connect it up internally to a GFX card that has HDMI output BUT the audio is limited to S/Pdif standards for stereo and DDL or DTS-C standards for surround. I don't think this header would be capable of multichannel PCM in the same way HDMI is. S/Pdif doesn't have enough badnwidth to handle that type of material.
 Unless the header is not just S/Pdif, mybe it is a hybrid?
 I will look into it and post information here on whatever I find out.


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## MSmith83

Yeah, the wording on the card does indicate that it is limited to SPDIF transmission. If support for multichannel PCM was not actually intended, then I should perhaps shop for a native HDMI card for this system (I currently have a HomeTheater HD installed in my primary home theater machine, which I really like).


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## ROBSCIX

That is what I thought, the digital output is a S/Pdif output so limted to 2 channel PCM and DDL and DTS-C encoded surround. You could conenct that to a GFX card that has S/Pdif input for HDMI integration but the audio would always be limited to these standards. If true HDMI audio standard support is what you after then you need another product.

 Yes, I really liked the HTHD 7.1 also, sounds great and has a boatload of features for home theater PCs. The HTHD card gives you full high resolution "HDMI" audio standards over analog.


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## jalyst

The Essence ST doesn't have this issue right?
 I mean I intend to mostly use analogue out, but later I may end-up doing digi pass-through via HDMI etc.


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## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jalyst* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Essence ST doesn't have this issue right?
 I mean I intend to mostly use analogue out, but later I may end-up doing digi pass-through via HDMI etc._

 

Any card that is connected to a HDMI GFX card by internal digital S/Pdif will be limited by that standard. In short, you cannot get true "HDMI" audio standards such as Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HDMA out of a normal S/pdif output. There is simply not enough bandwidth for the required digital information.


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## jalyst

Thanks I realise that, but it doesn't connect that way does it?


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## GCTonyHawk7

I had a question about this card in general.

 I am interested in the fact that this card does have the separate headphone output. Although, I am wondering if this allows the card to drive the headphones at the same time as another audio stream? For example, could I run 5.1 audio on my speakers AND have it also playing as stereo in the headphones? This would be super helpful in the fact that you wouldn't have to adjust audio settings, volume, or plug in cords each time you want to switch to the headphones. Similar question; could I use the digital audio for the speakers and then also use the headphones at the same time? My perfect card would let me plug in my speakers as multi-channel PCM over digital so that it would work just like the analog outs, AND also drive the headphones in stereo. (I switch between headphones as speakers often since I live in a dorm room and have to appease the room-mate when he's around) I have not used X-Fi cards in the past, so not sure how they handle this sort of thing. (I know my onboard does this simply fantastically... but that is onboard)

 I currently have an HT Omega Striker 7.1, although am having some issues. For one, volume levels seems messed up for analog surround outputs. The tech-support admitted the problem and are looking into it. This forces me to use Digital. Although, when using the digital, any time I play a movie in surround, it has to use S-pidf passthrough which jams up players like foobar and forces me to restart them. This is a huge annoyance. Also having some issues with interference sounds coming from certain things such as scrolling and minimizing windows, etc. Probably EMI.

 Another question, which has been asked already previously, although I would kind of like clarification. I have an M3 headphone amp which I really do love. I more or less would just want this card for the dedicated headphone output (IF it can also drive the speakers synonymously) Would it be horrible to use the amped headphone output from this card to go into my M3 headphone amp? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thanks guys.


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## Cya|\|

sorry if this has been asked before, but are the connection glod plated? Because they are made of plastic, but i wanted to know if it's just the cover, and if the actual connection is made of gold plated metal.
 I was also wondeing if the outside gold plated minijack femal plugs are just for marketing.


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## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GCTonyHawk7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had a question about this card in general.

 I am interested in the fact that this card does have the separate headphone output. Although, I am wondering if this allows the card to drive the headphones at the same time as another audio stream? For example, could I run 5.1 audio on my speakers AND have it also playing as stereo in the headphones? This would be super helpful in the fact that you wouldn't have to adjust audio settings, volume, or plug in cords each time you want to switch to the headphones. Similar question; could I use the digital audio for the speakers and then also use the headphones at the same time? My perfect card would let me plug in my speakers as multi-channel PCM over digital so that it would work just like the analog outs, AND also drive the headphones in stereo. (I switch between headphones as speakers often since I live in a dorm room and have to appease the room-mate when he's around) I have not used X-Fi cards in the past, so not sure how they handle this sort of thing. (I know my onboard does this simply fantastically... but that is onboard)_

 

In Vista the speaker outputs and headphones outputs are seen as totally different outputs in the audio configuration panel. There is also a seperate volume controls for both outputs. I am thking you could possibly send different streams to the different outputs but I will check with an associate and get a definitive answer for you. There is a DTS-C encoder coming for this card which encodes all audio to surround for output over digital output for surround systems. I know the headphone and normal digital 2.0 output works simultaneously.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GCTonyHawk7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I currently have an HT Omega Striker 7.1, although am having some issues. For one, volume levels seems messed up for analog surround outputs. The tech-support admitted the problem and are looking into it. This forces me to use Digital. Although, when using the digital, any time I play a movie in surround, it has to use S-pidf passthrough which jams up players like foobar and forces me to restart them. This is a huge annoyance. Also having some issues with interference sounds coming from certain things such as scrolling and minimizing windows, etc. Probably EMI.

 Another question, which has been asked already previously, although I would kind of like clarification. I have an M3 headphone amp which I really do love. I more or less would just want this card for the dedicated headphone output (IF it can also drive the speakers synonymously) Would it be horrible to use the amped headphone output from this card to go into my M3 headphone amp? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks guys. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It is usually frowned upon to drive an amplifer from another amplifer as you can overdrive the input and add a greatd eal fo distortion to the signal. That being saidm I have heard of peopel doing it though.


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## GCTonyHawk7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In Vista the speaker outputs and headphones outputs are seen as totally different outputs in the audio configuration panel. There is also a seperate volume controls for both outputs. I am thking you could possibly send different streams to the different outputs but I will check with an associate and get a definitive answer for you. There is a DTS-C encoder coming for this card which encodes all audio to surround for output over digital output for surround systems. I know the headphone and normal digital 2.0 output works simultaneously.


 It is usually frowned upon to drive an amplifer from another amplifer as you can overdrive the input and add a greatd eal fo distortion to the signal. That being saidm I have heard of peopel doing it though._

 

Thanks for the response. So, in general, you are saying that digital and Headphone can work fine at the same time. I guess my big question at this point would be whether or not the analog outputs and headphones work at the same time. If it does, that would probably end up being the most ideal since digital is often finicky.

 As far as the headphone amp... it is not that I want to amps, I more so just want that headphone output so that my speakers and headphones could work at the same time. What do you mean by overdriving the input? Basically, the headphone amplifier would be getting too much signal and then trying to make it even more powerful causing distortion? Maybe this wouldn't be an issue if I have headphones that can take a decent load?


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## jalyst

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any card that is connected to a HDMI GFX card by internal digital S/Pdif will be limited by that standard. In short, you cannot get true "HDMI" audio standards such as Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HDMA out of a normal S/pdif output. There is simply not enough bandwidth for the required digital information._

 

Thanks I realise that, but the ST doesn't connect that way does it?


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## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GCTonyHawk7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the response. So, in general, you are saying that digital and Headphone can work fine at the same time. I guess my big question at this point would be whether or not the analog outputs and headphones work at the same time. If it does, that would probably end up being the most ideal since digital is often finicky.

 As far as the headphone amp... it is not that I want to amps, I more so just want that headphone output so that my speakers and headphones could work at the same time. What do you mean by overdriving the input? Basically, the headphone amplifier would be getting too much signal and then trying to make it even more powerful causing distortion? Maybe this wouldn't be an issue if I have headphones that can take a decent load?_

 

I just verifed that you can play multiple streams to the output you suggested. One to the heaphone output and one to the speaker output. The outputs show up in a music player for instance as:

 1. Headphone out
 2. Speakers out
 3. Digital out

 In theory if two work then all three should work but I will have to check on that.
 As for the headphone amplifer, Yes, the input is not meant to be connected to a high power source like the output of another amplifier. It might be alright if you keep the output level low but it is not something I would advise. Your choice though.


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## GCTonyHawk7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just verifed, that you can play two different streams. One to the heaphone output and one to the speaker output. If I get a chance I will try and see if I can get all three outputs tested at the same time. 
 1. Headphone out
 2. Speakers out
 3. Digital out
 In theory of two work then all three should work but I will have ot check on that for you.
 As for the headphone amplifer, Yes, the input is not meant to be connected to a high power source like the output of another amplifier._

 

Awesome, thanks for confirming that.

 Hmmmm, that could be a problem. I didn't pay $300+ for a headphone amp to not be able to use it. I wonder if one of those mode button things can turn off the amplification, or if that is all just hardwired. I guess I may have to use the stereo (green) for the headphone amp and the digital for my speakers.

 Thanks again.


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## ROBSCIX

No problem.


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## Aevum

just a small question on my part, 
 replacing the opamps and all that improves the card and quality, but whats the point if you still have to use creatives horrible bloatware X-Fi driver ?


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## ROBSCIX

The drivers for the Bravura are far from bloatware. 
 From my experience and from others information, Auzentech cards tend to respond much differently then Creative cards with concerns to drivers. YMMV.


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## MSmith83

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The drivers for the Bravura are far from bloatware. 
 From my experience and from others information, Auzentech cards tend to respond much differently then Creative cards with concerns to drivers. YMMV._

 

I agree completely. The Bravura's drivers and software package run very lean, and as usual, you get to select what you want to install beyond the core components. Furthermore, the drivers are as stable as can be for me in 64-bit Windows Vista.


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## jalyst

so is the review coming out soon?


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## GCTonyHawk7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MSmith83* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree completely. The Bravura's drivers and software package run very lean, and as usual, you get to select what you want to install beyond the core components. Furthermore, the drivers are as stable as can be for me in 64-bit Windows Vista._

 

I noticed that you can select what all you want to install. I don't have the card yet, but as a non-Creative/X-Fi card person, are any of those separate things needed?

 I don't do any gaming at all, and would prefer the lightest install possible, but also don't want to lose any functionality.


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## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GCTonyHawk7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I noticed that you can select what all you want to install. I don't have the card yet, but as a non-Creative/X-Fi card person, are any of those separate things needed?

 I don't do any gaming at all, and would prefer the lightest install possible, but also don't want to lose any functionality._

 

No. The base drivers install in one set. Other add-ons you can disable such as the Wave Studio etc. The Base drivers though are very light in comparison to some other cards I have seen.


----------



## EnjoyTheSilence

Is there any sound difference between the headphone output of the Bravura, Forte or HomeTheater HD?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, as you can modify the headphone amplifier using opamps. The Stock Bravura also uses a different opamp.


----------



## EnjoyTheSilence

Ok but how does the stock Bravura compare to the other two from the "sound quality" point of view? We're talking strictly about the headphone output.


----------



## Incognito73

Well ... delivery guy just showed up @ my office with the brand new Bravura. I couldn't find this card anywhere in the UK, so at the end I ordered it from Germany for 100EUR. It arrived in 2 business days. Nice.

 I'm surprised with the card layout ... it's really really nice. I think that someone already mentioned space around the opamp sockets and I can confirm this. Nice touch.

 Sadly, I' unable to toy with the card until later tonight. For now, I can only compare it with Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1Hifi (with the LM4562 opamps)

 Something that caught my eye (scroll down to mode switcher)
Auzen X-Fi Bravura from Auzentech, Inc. : World First soundcards for Music, HTPC, and Gaming.

 I/O (hardware) Control ? Indeed, there is a mode switcher on the front of the card. This is the first time I've seen this on any audio card. Also, it would be interesting to hear if "Pointing Ground Power Supply (for audio that is free of power supply noise)" is really working in practice.

 Also, I really like separate volume control for the speakers and headphone out. It would be interesting to hear my HD600 on the dedicated headphone out.


----------



## Incognito73

Just verified opamps on the card ... topmost is actually LME49270NA (on the pic from auzen web site it looks like it's not marked, as it's quite subtle print barely visible). Others are generic JRC53200 and one of them (second from the bottom) is JRC45800. It's quite possible that LME is actually allocated for the dedicated headphone out, but what about speaker out (front) ?! Not sure, as I have no clue atm which opamp is for which channel (no accessible documentation).

 There is some jumper (top/left) where you can select CHASIS GND or SIGNAL GND. No idea what is that used for.

 It's intriguing how the hardware mode switch is operating and what's actually happening under the hood. Apparently, you can select:


----------



## genclaymore

Yea I cant wait for mine to get here also. Gonna make sure it works then slot in my LME49710HA in headphone and the LME49720HA's in the other channels for my receiver.


----------



## EnjoyTheSilence

*Incognito73* I see two selection buttons for different modes on top of the card, can you select Comport Sound (for speakers) and Professional headphone for example or just the four sets you posted earlier?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Here is the opamp models used in each channel.
 Headphones: LME49720
 Front channels: NE5532
 Rear channels: NE5532
 Side channels:NE5532
 Center/Sub: JRC4580

 The top chip is marked but National chips have labels that can be very faint to read on certain models. The LME49720HA is used for the headphones output.
 The GND select swicth is to prevent ground loops with certain system/power layouts.
 You can change the gnd from the chassis to the signal...


----------



## Incognito73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EnjoyTheSilence* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Incognito73* I see two selection buttons for different modes on top of the card, can you select Comport Sound (for speakers) and Professional headphone for example or just the four sets you posted earlier?_

 

Yeah, first button is for the microphone. I believe that only presets (sets) are available. Just found more information about that ground jumper (from the pdf manual):

 "1. Ground Select Jumper (JP5) : Can select analog ground type between ‘SIGNAL GND’ and CHASSIS GND’ . If you select ‘CHASSIS GND’, analog ground will be connected to your PC case through PCI bracket. "

 ... so effectively one can choose how to ground the card.

 Also, no native ASIO support. Bummer. I mean, you can get away with the Asio4All/VirtualAudioCable or JACK ... but it's not ideal. For the people interested only in WASAPI/DS, I guess it doesn't matter that much.

 Anyhow, damn, my motherboard refused to recognise the card and I've spent like hours to figure it out. I was starting to suspect that it's a DOA and almost returned the Audiotrak back in the system ... but then it hit me. I realised that not so long ago I removed the "system32\FileRepository\DriverStore" directory in order to save some space on my SSD. Windows was looking for some system drivers there for a PCI bridge ... unbelievable. It's all good now but too late to audition anything. Will have to continue tomorrow ...


----------



## genclaymore

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is the opamp models used in each channel.
 Headphones: LME49720
 Front channels: NE5532
 Rear channels: NE5532
 Side channels:NE5532
 Center/Sub: JRC4580

 The top chip is marked but National chips have labels that can be very faint to read on certain models. The LME49720HA is used for the headphones output.
 The GND select swicth is to prevent ground loops with certain system/power layouts.
 You can change the gnd from the chassis to the signal..._

 

Your sure, because when my friend removed the headphone amp chip it had NA on it.I asked him like a couple of times to make sure, and he saw NA.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *genclaymore* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your sure, because when my friend removed the headphone amp chip it had NA on it.I asked him like a couple of times to make sure, and he saw NA._

 

Yes, LME49720NA.....NA is the DIp8 version.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Incognito73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_... so effectively one can choose how to ground the card._

 

LOL, I just said that.


----------



## genclaymore

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, LME49720NA.....NA is the DIp8 version._

 

But you post said HA unless you meant you put HA's in it. And I was just confused.


----------



## Lyze

To these who have got their hands on this card, how is this when compared to Xonar ST/X when listening with headphones? Is Xonar worth paying 70e more? And yes, only for headphone use, music and movies no gaming.

 I have Sennheiser HD 555 atm so would I get much improvement from the amp that comes with the card? At least source gets much better because im using integrated so there should be a great difference in the sound right?
 Thanks.


----------



## Incognito73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL, I just said that.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Indeed ... just realised 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I left my reply window open for ages without noticing if anyone posted something new ...

 Anyhow, I did play with the card briefly this morning (front channel/speaker out only, stock set-up) ... it's fatiguing crystal clear, detailed and punchy (all sound enhancements are off) although not enough warmth - I'm probably used to Audiotrak. I left the card to loop the break-in flacs until I'm back later tonight so I may pop in LM4562 from Audiotrak too. At least to have some controlled environment for comparison. It's too early for any firm statements.

 I did noticed briefly that noise isolation is quite good. No usual noise from surrounding PC components. Actually, my active speakers do have slight static noise when powered on ... but I couldn't audition any change in static noise pattern (or noise add-on) when the card is on/off. That's quite positive, for a change. I think that drivers are unstable atm. There is a loud pop/click when starting/stopping audio streams and/or skipping tracks (WASAPI or DS doesn't matter). It's quote annoying. Also, WASAPI playback is somewhat unstable for me @ 24/96. Need to fiddle more.

 At the end, speaker out is quite hot. I didn't measured the voltage, but at volume 10 my system is already loud. Volume is really kicking in. Didn't test the headphone out ... but if it's the same case there, I feel that this card shouldn't have problems to drive demanding headphones.

 There are no more "creative audio modes". It's just entertainment mode now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Finally. I hate mode switching with passion.

 By the way, Bravura is in my HTPC used for music/movies only.


----------



## MSmith83

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Incognito73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is a loud pop/click when starting/stopping audio streams and/or skipping tracks (WASAPI or DS doesn't matter)._

 

I mentioned the exact same thing in my mini-review. It is at least comforting to know that I'm not the only one to experience this. The loud click sound, combined with a little noise, makes the headphone output useless for me when my Benchmark DAC1 PRE and even Denon AVR-4306 performs much better in this regard. I wonder what the issue is.

 I also agree with you about the lack of warmth and extremely high volume.


----------



## ROBSCIX

You have this pop/click when starting music tracks? Are you using the proper sampling rate for the tracks?

 It is just this card that has the entertainment mode as it is a different chipset.


----------



## Incognito73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You have this pop/click when starting music tracks? Are you using the proper sampling rate for the tracks?_

 

Ah yes, upsampled or not ... doesn't matter. I had this from foobar via WASAPI. Interestingly enough, ASIO4ALL is OK and only had those damned pops when changing something on the audio driver level (for example changing the ASIO4ALL settings, changing the creative settings, sample rates etc). I'm 100% positive it's the driver stability. It's first driver release anyway.

 As there is no native ASIO, Bravura is working nicely with ASIO4ALL. By using ReaRoute and REAPER itself as a decent VSThost, I managed to map all sound card channels, route LFE to the sub channel (Creative bass management is useless) and reactivate all my VST filters 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Audio streams routing from WDM/MME to ASIO is not possible, of course. Boy, I miss ESI DirectWire. Only option is VAC (Virtual Audio Cable) but that give me terrible pops/crackle/skips when paired with ASIO4ALL. I think that I've read in the manual that you can make an S/PDIF loopback by jumpering the pins 3/4 positions (digital out/in pin on the card itself). That's only (possible) alternative for internal audio routing.

  Quote:


 It is just this card that has the entertainment mode as it is a different chipset. 
 

Yeah, that's OK ... in a good way. I never realised why Creative enforced those useless modes "entertainment/games/creation". Completely unnecessary. Just give me one "good" mode with all APIs and extensions and I'm good.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Just figured you may be hearing a lick if the card is changing sampling rates on the fly...
 I have seen that happen with some other cards.
 No ASIO is a bit of a bummer, but oh well. Card sounds pretty good from what I have heard.


----------



## Incognito73

Yes, it does. Surprisingly good stock quality for analog outputs (still didn't test the hadphone amp) ... and boy this card is LOUD. Really pumping a lot of omph. Still have to fiddle with I/O modes. I'm very pleased with the interference-free sound. In my humble opinion, this is the first audio solution in PC land (i've auditioned) that it's free from PC interference "special effects". 

 It is a bright sounding solution, lively and involving ... but it does luck the warmth and character, which can be cured with different opamps probably and to suit personal preferences. (well, that's the point anyway with opamp sockets). For now, I can only test with LT1364/LT1361 and LM4562 (some left overs I have). Sadly, don't have any OPA627 or AD797 to possibly infuse some laid back warmth.

 I wonder if dedicated headphone circuit is usable as preamp?!


----------



## MSmith83

For those wondering, I should clarify that I do not hear the awful clicking sound via SPDIF output; it is just the analog speaker and headphone outputs. Over SPDIF, this card has been working like a dream. Digital output with WASAPI is still completely stable and reliable for me.

 As for loudness over analog, that really needs to be addressed. Prospective buyers need to know that they have to be VERY careful when first using this card's analog section by first turning the volume all the way down. I don't want anyone damaging their hearing and/or losing their speakers or headphones because of this.


----------



## ROBSCIX

The card is not said to have loud outputs, they are still within line level specs.
 Are you refering to the headphone output? 
 That may have something to do with the modes.
 I will check with Auzen and let you know hat I find in regards to the outputs.
 Auzentech has made cards with "hot" outputs before but they usually make note of it.


----------



## Incognito73

People, Bravura is fantastic! Not sure if it's the break-in period or just that I settled down with working drivers/asio/wasapi configuration (or both)... but sound settled down. It's less harsh, more involving, more dimensional sound scape. It's still very bright, but not more on the fatiguing level. Even with stock JRC opamps, it's punching out way beyond it's weight. Just finished brief headphone amp auditioning and I'm overwhelmed! ... almost on the speechless side of things. It's driving my HD600 wonderfully and with such weight and detail (thanks LM opamp). I didn't even cross the 40% headphone volume. This is the first time in my life that I have pitch black background with PC sound card. Background noise and interference is most noticeable on the headphone outputs , but I can tell you that Bravura is pitch black. Absolutely no background noise! New no-noise power circuit is not marketing gimmick.

 Not sure if anyone mentioned, but headphone amp is visible as separate sound device in windows, so you have completely separate control over the volume and configuration. Also, you can use headphone out as preamp ... no probs, but be careful with the volume! Output is hot and volume adjustment is advisable. Still have to do broader auditioning, but first impression is that headphone amp circuit kicks some serious ass.

 I still didn't touch I/O modes. Not sure what's the default set (probably SET1 ... who knows). Still have to play with I/O modes, opamps ...

 Oh yes, S/PDIF loopback works! You just need to short the pins 3-4 on the digital extension connector (topmost on the right). No more need for Virtual Audio Cable or other acrobatics. I can route WDM/MME streams via loopback to the ASIO input for further processing. Effectively, DirectWire simulation. It's working very well.

 It's fantastic how much technology you can bay nowadays for just shy over 100EUR. I would say that this card is really good value for money. You have excellent headphone amp, high end power circuit, 4 usable stereo/analog channels (6 with headphone amp), swappable opamps for all channels, decent HTPC/movies support and even gaming twist!

 Off to play more


----------



## leeperry

indeed this card looks money! do you have a XP box around by any chance? I'd like to know whether KS is automatically bit-matched 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 w/ some AD797B it would kill I think, a friend of mine is amazed by the X-Fi Forte 7.1 on his K701(he used to own an STX, then a ST, then a Prodigy HD2 Advance Deluxe), he's put a burson on his Forte: http://hfr-rehost.net/http://self/pi...5a95b328b.jpeg


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Incognito73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_People, Bravura is fantastic! Not sure if it's the break-in period or just that I settled down with working drivers/asio/wasapi configuration (or both)... but sound settled down. It's less harsh, more involving, more dimensional sound scape. It's still very bright, but not more on the fatiguing level. Even with stock JRC opamps, it's punching out way beyond it's weight. Just finished brief headphone amp auditioning and I'm overwhelmed! ... almost on the speechless side of things. It's driving my HD600 wonderfully and with such weight and detail (thanks LM opamp). I didn't even cross the 40% headphone volume. This is the first time in my life that I have pitch black background with PC sound card. Background noise and interference is most noticeable on the headphone outputs , but I can tell you that Bravura is pitch black. Absolutely no background noise! New no-noise power circuit is not marketing gimmick.

 Not sure if anyone mentioned, but headphone amp is visible as separate sound device in windows, so you have completely separate control over the volume and configuration. Also, you can use headphone out as preamp ... no probs, but be careful with the volume! Output is hot and volume adjustment is advisable. Still have to do broader auditioning, but first impression is that headphone amp circuit kicks some serious ass.

 I still didn't touch I/O modes. Not sure what's the default set (probably SET1 ... who knows). Still have to play with I/O modes, opamps ...

 Oh yes, S/PDIF loopback works! You just need to short the pins 3-4 on the digital extension connector (topmost on the right). No more need for Virtual Audio Cable or other acrobatics. I can route WDM/MME streams via loopback to the ASIO input for further processing. Effectively, DirectWire simulation. It's working very well.

 It's fantastic how much technology you can bay nowadays for just shy over 100EUR. I would say that this card is really good value for money. You have excellent headphone amp, high end power circuit, 4 usable stereo/analog channels (6 with headphone amp), swappable opamps for all channels, decent HTPC/movies support and even gaming twist!

 Off to play more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah, she sounds pretty good. The power design is similar to what people use in recording studios with all senstitive components using the same grounding point. I have been testing this card out for quite awhile now and have enjoyed the sound quality a great deal in both headphones and the multi channel outputs. I also tested the card with many great opamps.
 The headphones amplifer circuit uses the LME49720NA for a signal buffer then uses discrete transistors for the amplification. Give it great sound and a whole lot of power.


----------



## Incognito73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_do you have a XP box around by any chance? I'd like to know whether KS is automatically bit-matched 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No, Vista x32 I'm affraid. Although, I would be mostly pleased to switch to Linux, but Auzentech driver support sux there 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, she sounds pretty good. The power design is similar to what people use in recording studios with all senstitive components using the same grounding point. I have been testing this card out for quite awhile now and have enjoyed the sound quality a great deal in both headphones and the multi channel outputs. I also tested the card with many great opamps._

 

Well, your post timing couldn't be better ... as I was just about to source some opamps for a test. I have readily avaliable LM4562 from AudioTrak, but I can source usual suspects OPA627AU or AD797BR. I don't want to experiment too much (as it would probably from the economical point of view reach the costs of the actual card itself) ... so according to your tests any guidance what's the most "suitable" high end opamp for this card is much appreciated.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The headphones amplifer circuit uses the LME49720NA for a signal buffer then uses discrete transistors for the amplification. Give it great sound and a whole lot of power._

 

Yeah, correct. I wonder do I need to touch this opamp at all. I mean, I can upgrade front l/r and sub channel ... that's what I'm using atm, apart from headphone amp.


----------



## oohms

How does bit perfect playback work with this card, since it lacks "Audio creation mode"?


----------



## MSmith83

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oohms* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How does bit perfect playback work with this card, since it lacks "Audio creation mode"?_

 

As I mentioned earlier, bit-perfect output requires no adjustments at the driver level.

 Unlike the hardware-based X-Fi cards, there is never a hardware DSP for the audio to go through.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Incognito73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, your post timing couldn't be better ... as I was just about to source some opamps for a test. I have readily avaliable LM4562 from AudioTrak, but I can source usual suspects OPA627AU or AD797BR. I don't want to experiment too much (as it would probably from the economical point of view reach the costs of the actual card itself) ... so according to your tests any guidance what's the most "suitable" high end opamp for this card is much appreciated.

 Yeah, correct. I wonder do I need to touch this opamp at all. I mean, I can upgrade front l/r and sub channel ... that's what I'm using atm, apart from headphone amp._

 

You might be hard pressed to find differences between the LME49720NA and the LME4562NA as according to the manufactuers they are the same opamp. That being said, I have heard some people suggest they hear differences may have to do with binning. I tested variations on both the opamps your asking about. THe AD797 sounds nice in the headphone circuit.
 So does the 627AU...and many others as it is a really good headphones section.

 I built a special adapter for myself and some freinds to split the center and sub channel on soudncards so I could use a different opamp for each channel.

 Based on my testing, the card sound great stock. That being said,you can always use you favorite opamps to push the card further. Auzentech used generic opamps for the multichannel outputs to keep cost down IMO. They figure your going to change out the opamps anyway.
 The LME49720NA, is not a generic opamps though and is quite good in it's own right.


----------



## oohms

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MSmith83* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As I mentioned earlier, bit-perfect output requires no adjustments at the driver level.

 Unlike the hardware-based X-Fi cards, there is never a hardware DSP for the audio to go through._

 

The Xonar U1 doesn't have a DSP either, and only supports 48k, so the driver will always resample everything to 48k (even with KS, WASAPI), lots of other cards do this as well, even though they should be able to automatically choose the right sampling rate (eg Xonar STX, has to be set manually)


----------



## MSmith83

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oohms* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Xonar U1 doesn't have a DSP either, and only supports 48k, so the driver will always resample everything to 48k (even with KS, WASAPI), lots of other cards do this as well, even though they should be able to automatically choose the right sampling rate (eg Xonar STX, has to be set manually)_

 

Well, I can assure you that WASAPI is really bit-perfect with this card. Over digital, I confirmed that 44.1kHz, HDCD, 48kHz and 96kHz signals get passed automatically.


----------



## oohms

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MSmith83* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I can assure you that WASAPI is really bit-perfect with this card. Over digital, I confirmed that HDCD, 48kHz and 96kHz signals get passed automatically._

 

Awesome! This really is a contender to the ST/STX then


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MSmith83* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As I mentioned earlier, bit-perfect output requires no adjustments at the driver level.

 Unlike the hardware-based X-Fi cards, there is never a hardware DSP for the audio to go through._

 

KS/ASIO/WASAPI will bypass the windows mixer, but the X-Fi audio creation/bit-matched mode only seems to work over ASIO(there's no automatically bit-matched mode on the Xonar at all, so it ain't so bad!): X-Fi & Bit-matched playback - Digit-Life Forum

 and X-Fi for Music Lovers: Auzentech X-Fi Prelude 7.1 in Detail (page 5) - X-bit labs
  Quote:


 All sounds reproduced through Windows will be converted to the basic sampling frequency you select in the Settings window. *Automatic switching of the frequency is implemented only for ASIO*. 
 

if anyone could confirm that KS also changes the sample rate automatically in the X-Fi drivers, I'd prolly order the card...FWIW the Envy24 based cards and the Musiland Monitor serie are fully bit-matched over DS/KS/ASIO/WASAPI excl.

*PS:* ok so much for WASAPI, but I need KS


----------



## Incognito73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_THe AD797 sounds nice in the headphone circuit.
 So does the 627AU...and many others as it is a really good headphones section._

 

Excellent. Thx.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I built a special adapter for myself and some freinds to split the center and sub channel on soudncards so I could use a different opamp for each channel._

 

Interesting ... well that's the thing. I'm sending everything < 85Hz via ASIO cut off filters to the sub channel (my active Audioengine sub), so that I can properly calibrate the system and blend everything together nicely with my front speakers. Some people told me that I shouldn't bother with sub channel opamp as I wouldn't hear a difference ... but I was always keen to try it out. Maybe it's best that I follow my own instincts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Auzentech used generic opamps for the multichannel outputs to keep cost down IMO. They figure your going to change out the opamps anyway._

 

Nothing wrong with that tbh. Switching opamps is all about personal hifi comfort zone, so why enforce something ... but hats off to headphone section . It's really nicely done with no-so-generic opamp. Let alone the pointing ground power supply.


----------



## MSmith83

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oohms* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Awesome! This really is a contender to the ST/STX then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

ASIO4ALL has also worked perfectly for me in foobar2000.

 For further clarification, just as Auzentech states in its spec sheets, digital output is limited to a max output of 96kHz/24-bit while the headphone output goes to 192kHz/24-bit.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Incognito73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Excellent. Thx.

 Interesting ... well that's the thing. I'm sending everything < 85Hz via ASIO cut off filters to the sub channel (my active Audioengine sub), so that I can properly calibrate the system and blend everything together nicely with my front speakers. Some people told me that I shouldn't bother with sub channel opamp as I wouldn't hear a difference ... but I was always keen to try it out. Maybe it's best that I follow my own instincts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I don't know about not hearing a difference. Some opamps have very flabby "tubby" type of bass and some have tight bass. There are a few opamps I keep around just for the bass channel. It is easy to hear the difference with those models. Go with you gut though.


----------



## ROBSCIX

@Incognito73, forgot to mention the OPA627AU sounds quite good in this card also.


----------



## Incognito73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@Incognito73, forgot to mention the OPA627AU sounds quite good in this card also._

 

I see ... hmmmm .... I think that I will source 2xOPA627AU and 2XAD797. I would like to hear the differences in sound signature from those two well known opamps and settle with one I prefer the most. They are certified by Auzen (so no stability problems), I'm maybe now used to Audiotrak warm-ish/relaxed sound signature and lastly, well, they are probably mostly talked about in hi-fi circles ... but that doesn't neceserally mean a good thing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I may use them on front l/r and/or headphone outputs. Only question remains what to do with the sub channel. I don't use center one, so I don't need sub/center channels isolation. You mentioned that you have preferable opamps for sub channel ... may I ask about the models ?


----------



## Incognito73

... just to chip in about something interesting I tried last night - not specifically related to Bravura but it is in some sense. Some of you may find it maybe useful, practical or give you some other ideas. It's about wireless headphones set-up but if you want to avoid crappy and overpriced wireless headphones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's perfect for HTPC and movies watching in general.

 Not sure if anyone is familiar with Audioengine W1. I've used it with great success and sound quality is really, well, like cable replacement. Even my sub was in wireless mode, just for fun. So, to cut the long story short, you need W1 + portable usb battery (I'm using this one). So, I've plugged the W1 sender directly to Bravura headphone amp, and HD600 directly to W1 receiver (powered by usb battery pack). It's brilliant solution and sound quality is just amazing, especially for movies. So, your favorite audiophile headphones can go wireless any time you like


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Incognito73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see ... hmmmm .... I think that I will source 2xOPA627AU and 2XAD797. I would like to hear the differences in sound signature from those two well known opamps and settle with one I prefer the most. They are certified by Auzen (so no stability problems), I'm maybe now used to Audiotrak warm-ish/relaxed sound signature and lastly, well, they are probably mostly talked about in hi-fi circles ... but that doesn't neceserally mean a good thing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I may use them on front l/r and/or headphone outputs. Only question remains what to do with the sub channel. I don't use center one, so I don't need sub/center channels isolation. You mentioned that you have preferable opamps for sub channel ... may I ask about the models ?_

 

I have tested both and they work fine int both positions. There many others opamps also that you might like to try on this card...


----------



## genclaymore

Loving this Bravura with my LME49710HA's in the Headphone amp. Notice I need to adjust the volume in the Media players to half or below or it be crazy loud.


----------



## ROBSCIX

The Dual LME49710HA is also a great amplifier for that circuit.


----------



## Incognito73

Where did this thread go ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Finally got some OPA627 from eBay/China. Have to give a nod to eBay seller "tube_buyer". Prompt delivery (4 working days to UK), excellent communication and everything is superbly packaged. Envelope is customs declared as gift and sealed (if tampered). You even have a nice and sturdy box for your precious opamps:






/

 I really appreciate spacious design around the opamps. Even dual DIP8 are snug nicely 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 Tools for a trade: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 My trustworthy AudioTrak. Challenged by Bravura.


 My hart sank when I installed the opamps on Bravura and didn't have anything on front analog output channels. Then, I realised that my output was muted in ASIO mixer. Phew ... Anyhow, new opamps are nicely warming up. Have to be patient a bit, but I think that warmth, spacious soundscape and less pronounced shrill are emerging. It's a good sign.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Nice stuff. You can use that similar adapter on the Center/sub channel and split off the channels. This way you can use different opamps for the center and sub.

 Keep us posted. I was listening to this card with a OPA627AU snapped in for a few days, sounds quite good IMO.


----------



## Incognito73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice stuff. You can use that similar adapter on the Center/sub channel and split off the channels. This way you can use different opamps for the center and sub._

 

Yes. I figured that out when I was sourcing the opamp and adapter caught my eye. Only question remains which single channel opamp is suitable for sub (bass) channel in general. I guess something with rather extensive, non-muffled and firm low end. Then, for center channel something bright with nice vocal texture and positioning. In case that I don't split channels, dual opamp is an option too. Any suggestion is more then welcomed. Also, how should I now which socket is for what, when spitting the channels ?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Keep us posted. I was listening to this card with a OPA627AU snapped in for a few days, sounds quite good IMO._

 

 It's immense improvement over stock. I'm enjoying it very very much. This chip is really in the class of it's own and harmonious with the Bravura itself. It's so detailed, clean, natural ... musical in most simplistic sense. 

 I *think* that Audiotrak can go eBay ... but I would rather not make any sudden conclusions at this stage


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Incognito73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes. I figured that out when I was sourcing the opamp and adapter caught my eye. Only question remains which single channel opamp is suitable for sub (bass) channel in general. I guess something with rather extensive, non-muffled and firm low end. Then, for center channel something bright with nice vocal texture and positioning. In case that I don't split channels, dual opamp is an option too. Any suggestion is more then welcomed. Also, how should I now which socket is for what, when spitting the channels ?_

 

There are a few good ones for bass.
 If you have the dual channel adapter installed that you posted, with the card on a table with the I/O to the left hand side the opamp socket on the left is for the center and the opamps on the right is for the subwoofer.
 Let me check my notes for some suggestions. I usually go with the OPA2227 for bass channel and there is a single channel version also. I use the dual channel version for my sub channel. -using a special adapter.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Incognito73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ It's immense improvement over stock. I'm enjoying it very very much. This chip is really in the class of it's own and harmonious with the Bravura itself. It's so detailed, clean, natural ... musical in most simplistic sense. 

 I *think* that Audiotrak can go eBay ... but I would rather not make any sudden conclusions at this stage_

 

Yes, the opa627 is a good match for the DAC's on this card. 
 The OPA827's have been getting great feedback from designers and audio nuts. I want to check out the card with this unit and possibly a discrete unit. 
 Enjoy.


----------



## Incognito73

Ta for the valuable info! Much appreciated.

 According to Farnell UK ... unless it's different nomenclature, can't see the single amp version. Then there are OPA2227PA and OPA2227P variants. Speaking of dual channel adapter, yes, one can use dual channel opamp and convert any available analog stereo channel to dedicated sub out, then use stereo->mono adapter cable for the sub, if needed. Maybe you are talking about something completely different. 

 Solely based on naming, TI OPA827 does "sound" like BB OPA627 successor, no? I mean, BB OPA627 price + reliable sourcing is an "issue" more often then usual. It's good to have alternative option.


----------



## leeperry

anyone could share the PDF manual please? I can't find it on their website, and the only explanations I've found so far for the different modes were in broken english 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 anyone tried them at all on the HP out?

 and if ASIO4ALL works, I guess that means that KS works too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've asked their tech support, but they seem to be brain damaged...they never seem to understand anything of what I'm saying


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Incognito73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ta for the valuable info! Much appreciated.

 According to Farnell UK ... unless it's different nomenclature, can't see the single amp version. Then there are OPA2227PA and OPA2227P variants. Speaking of dual channel adapter, yes, one can use dual channel opamp and convert any available analog stereo channel to dedicated sub out, then use stereo->mono adapter cable for the sub, if needed. Maybe you are talking about something completely different. 

 Solely based on naming, TI OPA827 does "sound" like BB OPA627 successor, no? I mean, BB OPA627 price + reliable sourcing is an "issue" more often then usual. It's good to have alternative option._

 

I am unsure right off the top of my head what the single version is as I use a dual channel version for that task. (modified adapter). I am thinking 127..177 but that might not be right. I will check my listing., you may have to go with a dual channel version if you like that unit. 

 I am talking about something different the what you wrote. OK, on the center/sub channel the socket accepts a dual channel opamp. One channel is used for the center and one channel is used for the sub. You can use the adapters you have to split it to two single channel opamps. I have one similar to this but I modified it so it accepts a DUAL channel opamp for the subwoofer.
 The OPA827 are pretty nice but you already have the 627 in there.


----------



## leeperry

also, considering that AD797 is officially supported...maybe LT1028 would work too? their tech support has no idea wth I'm talking about when I talk about "unity gain stability"


----------



## ROBSCIX

@Incognito73, I checked my notes. The single channel version is the OPA227, I have always used the opa2227 for subchannels and have the 227 also. Many agree that the OPA2227 has a very good bass signature. It is worth a try for you I would say.
 Now, you just have to figure out which one to use for the center channel. I am using a LME49710NA for the center they offer great clarity and detail. Mixes great with the dual LME49710HA that I am currently using in the front channels.
 Hope this helps.


----------



## Incognito73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone could share the PDF manual please? I can't find it on their website, and the only explanations I've found so far for the different modes were in broken english 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Nothing much in the manual too. Screen grab from their web site, posted few pages back, is the most "helpful" atm. I did tried to switch the I/O modes (speaker out) ... output level does change quite a bit. Unfortunately, didn't have time to audition peculiarities. It's difficult to audition the I/O change for speakers as I have to be in front of the PC (and behind my speakers, so no listening position). Need to use headphones for both analog ports (headphone and speaker out).

 It's good that you can adapt the output according to your gear ... although I would prefer software mode for this (instead of hardware switches). On the other hand, that would probably increase the product price even more.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_and if ASIO4ALL works, I guess that means that KS works too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

ASIO4ALL works fine. I need ASIO to route everything to ASIO mixer (VST host) for further processing (use other analog/stereo outputs for other things, WDM routing, sub channel separation, eventually couple of DSP filters mainly for video/movies ... etc). Even S/PDIF loopback "jumper" is handy for audio routing from WDM to ASIO, for applications without direct support for ASIO.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've asked their tech support, but they seem to be brain damaged...they never seem to understand anything of what I'm saying 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_also, considering that AD797 is officially supported...maybe LT1028 would work too? their tech support has no idea wth I'm talking about when I talk about "unity gain stability_

 

This is a joke, right ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can't believe that you are pestering poor 1st line support people with such questions,let alone opamp unity gain. LOL Man ... this is a good one.


----------



## leeperry

oh...so the different "modes" will have to remain a mystery for now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 2 friends of mine have ordered it anyway, I count of them to try them all!

 well, tech support usually have several levels...I'd expect someone from level 2/3 to answer my questions, they put swappable opamps, it's a good guess ppl will put those sockets to good use...when I was asking HT.Omega about technical stuff, they were always coming back to me w/ technical answers.

 anyway I like the separate ground, it's prolly like on the STX...a dead black background is truly fantastic


----------



## Incognito73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_... You can use the adapters you have to split it to two single channel opamps. I have one similar to this but I modified it so it accepts a DUAL channel opamp for the subwoofer._

 

 Got it now! 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@Incognito73, I checked my notes. The single channel version is the OPA227, I have always used the opa2227 for subchannels and have the 227 also. Many agree that the OPA2227 has a very good bass signature. It is worth a try for you I would say._

 

... found it. There is also non-A version (this is PA) and it's just different in DC specs. Probably not very useful for audio (and it's more expensive too).

 Definitely worth a try. Thanks for the follow up!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now, you just have to figure out which one to use for the center channel. I am using a LME49710NA for the center they offer great clarity and detail. Mixes great with the dual LME49710HA that I am currently using in the front channels.
 Hope this helps._

 

Yeah, LM is logical choice. For now, I will pop in 2XOPA227 on the adapter until I figure out the center channel. 

 By the way, I may borrow couple of AD797ANZ (DIP8) for the weekend. Not sure how that will pan out, but would be interesting to audition them nevertheless. I may move the OPA627 to headphone section, use AD797 for front speakers, OPA227 for sub. Will see ...


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Incognito73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got it now! 


 ... found it. There is also non-A version (this is PA) and it's just different in DC specs. Probably not very useful for audio (and it's more expensive too).

 Definitely worth a try. Thanks for the follow up!

 Yeah, LM is logical choice. For now, I will pop in 2XOPA227 on the adapter until I figure out the center channel. 

 By the way, I may borrow couple of AD797ANZ (DIP8) for the weekend. Not sure how that will pan out, but would be interesting to audition them nevertheless. I may move the OPA627 to headphone section, use AD797 for front speakers, OPA227 for sub. Will see ..._

 

Let me know what you think. I have always liked the OPA2227 for Sub channels as they seem too tighten the bass right up, well on my gear anyway. Hopefully the information is helpful to you.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Incognito73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Need to use headphones_

 

BTW, does it have a relay like the STX? but I think even the X-fi Xtreme Music did...I'm sick and tired of those soundcards making loud pops when I turn on/off the computer


----------



## jalyst

Do you still intend to release a review Rob? Cheers


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jalyst* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you still intend to release a review Rob? Cheers_

 

Yes.


----------



## leeperry

humm, they've removed the "audio creation mode" ?? it was there on the 7.1 Forte..even the PDF manual only mentions the "entertainment mode", and they've also removed the "bit-matched playback" option, and there's no ASIO drivers either 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 a friend of mine is trying ASIO4ALL on XP...it does work but all the drivers DSP work on top if it, they shouldn't...and KS gives BSOD's, hah...X-fear crapola at its best again, why am I not surprised


----------



## genclaymore

KS didnt give me BSOD when I used it in Foobar. But then I not on windows XP.


----------



## leeperry

yeah...sucks, I was really hot for this card w/ two AD797BR 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ah well **** this, no KS on XP, no audio creation mode, no ASIO drivers, no bitmatched mode = no deal.

 I will output optical S/PDIF from the computer using the killer CMI8768 drivers from Dogbert(they're bit-perfect, automatically bit-matched, forbid SRC and support KS/WASAPI/WaveRT) and feed an external DAC/headamp...no groundloop, no more drivers crapola, no more crappy SMPS...I give up on soundcards altogether.


----------



## jalyst

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes._

 

okay looking forward to it, thanks!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *genclaymore* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_KS didnt give me BSOD when I used it in Foobar. But then I not on windows XP._

 

I wouldn't even worry about it. Ignore the trolls.


----------



## OnlyWantToSearch

Hi! Owners the answer what VENDOR_ID&DEVICE_ID&SUBSYS_& REV_ has SUBJ ?


----------



## Mphile

How does this compare to the Essence ST? I was waiting for ages for a Essence ST PCI-E but in vain, if this comes close ill just get this one

 Edit: Also, how does it compare to the Forte? Comparisons to be done purely for music, not gaming.

 Thanks


----------



## ROBSCIX

The Bravura 7.1 and the Forte 7.1 share pretty much the same output section except the Bravo can be modified with higher grade opamps.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Been testing this card with a Dual LME49710HA in the Headphone amplifier section sounds great. The stock chip is a LME4972NA, so this is a couple step up the ladder in quality same chip family though. To those wondering if KS work on the Bravura. It works fine, using it right now under XP Sp3 for some testing...great sound!





 To those spreading bad information, try testing for yourself before you post some crap about products you do not own and never tested yourself.


----------



## jalyst

What's your opinion on how this compares to the ST/X?
 A new contender for the throne perhaps? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thank-you.


----------



## ROBSCIX

They are both great cards but they have different sonic signatures. You have to consider also that they are not in the same price range. The STX/ST is over twice the price of the Bravura 7.1.


----------



## jalyst

Oh I didn't realise there was such a huge price difference!...
 So technically (if not subjectively) the STX/ST are the superior hi-fi (not gaming acceleration) card?


----------



## Incognito73

Well, I didn't audition the STX/ST and it would be unfair to comment anything ... but I really really doubt it sounds *that better for twice the price. I believe that Bravura is tremendous value for money. You have 7.1 support (for ST you need H6 daughter-board add-on and that's even more $), if not for 7.1 you can use other channels as normal stereo channels for other duties, excellent headphone amp section, redesigned power circuit (so no more special effects from your PC), better gaming support (some people reported actually very good gaming performance) ... and above all it's tweaking friendly. 

 With some good opamps it will deliver the warm analog sound signature ... if you fancy this of course. I've swapped the Audiotrak for Bravura and Bravura is still in my HTPC. Go figure!


----------



## Incognito73

Damn. I knew that something bad will happen when toying up with cheap pre-mounted opamp options. Apart from OPA627BP, I've ordered a pair of OPA627AU for a rainy day and to have them handy for non critical stereo channels. OPA627AU was premounted on this type of adapter:







 Now,it seems that poor soul who soldered the adapter inverted the pins for the dip socket. Those fatter pins with the ring (facing the PCB) on the picture were orientated towards the dip socket. So, in a rush to swap the opamps I didn't noticed this ... but it was too late when I noticed that I had to use more force to install them. Now, it seems that dip socket channels expanded a bit because of irregular pin size and now when I use other opamps and dip adapters they feel "loose" in the socket. I mean, they are not firmly secured in the socket channel and almost no force is required for removal. That was for my sub/center channel (I may route the sub to different channel/dip socket) ... but it seems that they are working fine for now. Not sure if connection is reliable. I'm super annoyed. I now have to buy some browndog adapters, de-solder opamps from existing adapter and solder back to browndogs. 

 So , people, be carefull when using the adapters and check the pin size. Otherwise, dip socket connection will be unreliable or in worst case they may not work at all.


----------



## ROBSCIX

I know what you mean. When you install the next units, bend the pins outward a bit. This way when you install them they will have a good conenction at the sides.
 Make sense?

 Your good enough to de-solder the units and resolder them?
 I think it would be easier to just reverse the pins.


----------



## Incognito73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know what you mean. When you install the next units, bend the pins outward a bit. This way when you install them they will have a good conenction at the sides.
 Make sense?_

 

Yes, of course. I did installed it that way, at the end. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Annoyed that socket is not in the top form anymore ... but hey there is nothing much I can do.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your good enough to de-solder the units and resolder them?
 I think it would be easier to just reverse the pins._

 

Oh yes, I'm very good with soldering and have steady hand. Inverting the pins is also an option ... but in that case dip pins will have tiny coat of solder on them. In some puristic sense another surface 2 surface contact before reaching the socket channels but hey ...
 I found 4 browndogs which I inteded to use some day, hence the idea.

 BTW I tried the OPA2227 for the sub channel. Very nice. For me, good opamp will not reveal the sub too much. In some sense, I dislike the idea to hear the presence of the sub. It should be transparent, rhythmic and above all nicely blended with front channels opamp sonic signature. I paired the OPA2227 with OPA627BP and quite pleased with the outcome. Thx for the OPA2227 suggestion!


----------



## ROBSCIX

No problem, they are great for bass. You are using the OPA2227 for the center/subsocket?
 I built an adapter that splits them, putting a LME49710NA(HA) on the center and a OPA227 on the subwoofer. The OPA227 is the single channel version of the OPA2227.
 Anyway, alteast you have the OPA2227 for bass. I have tested many opamps but I still find this one gives me the nicest bass range for subwoofer output, atleast IMO.


----------



## Incognito73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No problem, they are great for bass. You are using the OPA2227 for the center/subsocket?_

 

Ah, typo ... I''m using OPA227 (single channel one) on dual DIP8 adapter.


----------



## ROBSCIX

That is pretty much what I am using. Good stuff!
 I was actually using a metal can (TO-99) LME49710HA for my center and of course the OPA227 for sub channel.


----------



## Incognito73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is pretty much what I am using. Good stuff!_

 

Do you use your sub just for movies or for music too (with OPA227) ?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was actually using a metal can (TO-99) LME49710HA for my center and of course the OPA227 for sub channel._

 

I remember that you mentioned few times preference for TO-99 versions. I have 0 experience with metal cans. Here in the UK, I can find LME49710HA pre-installed on browndogs, but doesn't come cheap (LME49720HA is cheaper). Interestingly enough it's classified as HiFi Audio opamp. Actually, I'm currently really enjoying the OPA627 + OPA227 combo; not sure what to expect from LME49710HA. Also, trying to keep the opamp swapping craze on the bay.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Incognito73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you use your sub just for movies or for music too (with OPA227) ?_

 

I use the subwoofer for both movie and music. I do a great deal of testing, speakers, sources, electronics...etc
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Incognito73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I remember that you mentioned few times preference for TO-99 versions. I have 0 experience with metal cans. Here in the UK, I can find LME49710HA pre-installed on browndogs, but doesn't come cheap (LME49720HA is cheaper). Interestingly enough it's classified as HiFi Audio opamp. Actually, I'm currently really enjoying the OPA627 + OPA227 combo; not sure what to expect from LME49710HA. Also, trying to keep the opamp swapping craze on the bay. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Usually the TO-99 are the highest grade of an opamp family. I build my own dual LME49710HA on adapters. I have also put the LME49720HA on adapters also for my personal testing.

 You are right, some getting into swapping so much that they never stop and enjoy the music. I usually install the dual LME49710HA for a dual channel applications such as the front channels. So it made sense to use it for the center channel.


----------



## Cya|\|

I'm so pissed it's not possible to install this soundcard on a notebook 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Gonna move to a dorm in a few months, and i'll buy a notebook. Need a dac+headphone amp (i'll buy the akg k701), and this soundcard would have been the best choice (it's rather cheap too).


----------



## ROBSCIX

It's a great sounding card also.


----------



## Cya|\|

Yep. I really feel envious ^^.


----------



## kumaiti

For the BRavura owners: can anyone confirm that the little red-marked area has "SPDIF-IN" written on it?






 And if so, any idea what it is capable of doing? Does it show up in the "recording devices" on Windows 7?


----------



## shiznit

Hi, I'm thinking of upgrading my XtremeMusic with this card but I have a few questions. The dedicated headphone out will be great for me (no more unplugging headphones) but I'm worried about losing the hardware DSP. I know most games now use software sound but for those that still use DirectSound3D or OpenAL how much of a downgrade will this be over a real X-FI chip? I use Alchemy and it works but I often wonder if it actually uses the hardware DSP for anything at all and if it's not just emulating eax in software, in which case I assume the result will be the same.

 If I decide that I still want the hardware dsp I might get the Forte, does it also have a separate headphone adapter in windows or is it just a doubled front channel? I really need to have separate control over the two like the Bravura allows. Thanks, sorry if the questions are dumb or have been answered and I didn't notice.

 PS, am I understanding correctly that with the Bravura there is no need to switch to and from audio-creation mode for ASIO/WASAPI and the driver will handle bit-perfect playback automatically?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shiznit* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, I'm thinking of upgrading my XtremeMusic with this card but I have a few questions. The dedicated headphone out will be great for me (no more unplugging headphones) but I'm worried about losing the hardware DSP. I know most games now use software sound but for those that still use DirectSound3D or OpenAL how much of a downgrade will this be over a real X-FI chip? I use Alchemy and it works but I often wonder if it actually uses the hardware DSP for anything at all and if it's not just emulating eax in software, in which case I assume the result will be the same.

 If I decide that I still want the hardware dsp I might get the Forte, does it also have a separate headphone adapter in windows or is it just a doubled front channel? I really need to have separate control over the two like the Bravura allows. Thanks, sorry if the questions are dumb or have been answered and I didn't notice.

 PS, am I understanding correctly that with the Bravura there is no need to switch to and from audio-creation mode for ASIO/WASAPI and the driver will handle bit-perfect playback automatically?_

 


 Based on my testing this card is actually very fast for games. This card only has the entertainment mode so the drivers are quite light. There is no native ASIOdriver but WASAPI handles bitperfect in Vista/Win7.
 This card still offers EAX 1,2,3,4 and openAL only done using the CPU.


----------



## shiznit

Thanks, do both the Forte and the Bravura allow for separate control of speaker and headphone volume?


----------



## Incognito73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kumaiti* 
_For the BRavura owners: can anyone confirm that the little red-marked area has "SPDIF-IN" written on it?

 And if so, any idea what it is capable of doing? Does it show up in the "recording devices" on Windows 7?_

 

That picture is pre-production version, there are slight differences now. Anyway, yes, that's SPDIF-IN (you have OUT too). It's showed as digital recording device in windows, so effectively you can route the digital signal from other devices (ie graphics cards) to Bravura and vice versa. That's internal SPDIF connector. Currently, I'm using it in loop-back mode ... to route WDM to ASIO host.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shiznit* 
_Thanks, do both the Forte and the Bravura allow for separate control of speaker and headphone volume?_

 

Yes, headphone amp is separate (circuit) section on the card and it's showed as separate sound device (Headphones).


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, from testing you can actually send two different streams, one to the speakers (line out) and the other to the headphones (amp out). The S/Pdif output also shows as a seperate output so I would "guess" you can send three streams total. There is also seperate volumes for both line out and headphone which is very handy.


----------



## Incognito73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is also seperate volumes for both line out and headphone which is very handy._

 

Yes, VERY handy. For example, late at night my wife can control the HTPC volume for main speakers and I can control independently volume for my personal headphone listening pleasure (for the same source - movies let's say)


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, or you can go with different sources. I tested it and it worked fine, I had Winamp playing a song over the speakers and Foobar playing a song over the cans.

 The digital is also a seperate output. I do like the way Vista/Win7 handles audio routing, it is more professional and similar to recording cards I/O/


----------



## Incognito73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, or you can go with different sources. I tested it and it worked fine, I had Winamp playing a song over the speakers and Foobar playing a song over the cans._

 

I used JR Media Centre zones assigned for each output, for quick testing, A/B and some general auditioning. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The digital is also a seperate output. I do like the way Vista/Win7 handles audio routing, it is more professional and similar to recording cards I/O/_

 

Have to agree. I have ASIO mixer (Reaper VST host) on top of that ... and that's like really edging towards the pro I/O as possibilities are really endless. But even without ASIO complicity layer, it's pretty good for stock audio routing.


----------



## jalyst

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Incognito73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I didn't audition the STX/ST and it would be unfair to comment anything ... but I really really doubt it sounds *that better for twice the price. I believe that Bravura is tremendous value for money. You have 7.1 support (for ST you need H6 daughter-board add-on and that's even more $), if not for 7.1 you can use other channels as normal stereo channels for other duties, excellent headphone amp section, redesigned power circuit (so no more special effects from your PC), better gaming support (some people reported actually very good gaming performance) ... and above all it's tweaking friendly. 

 With some good opamps it will deliver the warm analog sound signature ... if you fancy this of course. I've swapped the Audiotrak for Bravura and Bravura is still in my HTPC. Go figure! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

So overall much better value; but overall SQ just a tad behind the ST + H6?


----------



## Cya|\|

I'd like to ask a particular question...
 We know that electrostatic headphones MUST run with an amplifier. Do you think u could use a stax with the bravura amp then? Is it only a matter of quality (ofc the bravura amp is not as good as stax amps), or do electrostatic headphones require specific amps?
 Because u know, one may afford to buy the stax 404 at 500 euros, with lots of effort, and much later buy a 500 euros amp. but it's hard to have 1000 in the pocket to buy them together.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cya|\|* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd like to ask a particular question...
 We know that electrostatic headphones MUST run with an amplifier. Do you think u could use a stax with the bravura amp then? Is it only a matter of quality (ofc the bravura amp is not as good as stax amps), or do electrostatic headphones require specific amps?
 Because u know, one may afford to buy the stax 404 at 500 euros, with lots of effort, and much later buy a 500 euros amp. but it's hard to have 1000 in the pocket to buy them together._

 

The amp on the Bravura is not really meant to drive those type of headphones. I do not have much experience with those type of headphones so I am going from memory. IIRC, they need a different type of amplifer with much higher voltages meant to drive electro-statics.
 Electro-statics are also balanced and meant to be driven by a balanced amplifer.

 Hope that helps.


----------



## Incognito73

Quick one.

 Does anyone have problem with Bravura when resuming from standby ? I mean, sometimes when resuming from standby I don't have any audio, absolutely nothing. More interestingly, that slowly blinking red light diode on the card is not on at all. After power off/on everything is back to normal ...


----------



## jalyst

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jalyst* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So overall much better value; but overall SQ just a tad behind the ST + H6?_

 

Guess it's not a simple yes or no answer? 
 Surprise, surprise!


----------



## genclaymore

Nope Incognito I havent had that issue. My card is working fine for me.


----------



## Juiced

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Incognito73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Quick one.

 Does anyone have problem with Bravura when resuming from standby ? I mean, sometimes when resuming from standby I don't have any audio, absolutely nothing. More interestingly, that slowly blinking red light diode on the card is not on at all. After power off/on everything is back to normal ..._

 

nope , no problems here


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jalyst* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Guess it's not a simple yes or no answer? 
 Surprise, surprise! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

They are in totally different price classes so how can you compare them?
 They also sound totally different...


----------



## kumaiti

Now that the review is out I suppose we can ask for MORE info:


 Does the control panel on the Bravura show an option like this?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Are you asking if the card has a control panel like that or if the card decodes DD or DTS streams?


----------



## Lyze

Should I get this to go with my 555?
 The mode change system thats on the card, is there a need to use that with 555? How good is this with music when compared to Xonar ST? (Atleast Bravura is 1/3 cheaper and I have pretty tight budget)


----------



## ROBSCIX

The Bravura is a very nice sounding card. I used it with the HD595's and I set it to the mode that sounded the best to my ears. Each mode is outlined in the manual and on the site.


----------



## kumaiti

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you asking if the card has a control panel like that or if the card decodes DD or DTS streams?_

 


 DD or DTS streams.

 And a few more questions:
 Also, what kind of "speaker virtualization" is it capable of?

 Did you encounter any software glitch worth mentioning?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kumaiti* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DD or DTS streams.

 And a few more questions:
 Also, what kind of "speaker virtualization" is it capable of?

 Did you encounter any software glitch worth mentioning?_

 

No, there hasn't been any modern cards that I can think of off hand that decodes S/Pdif streams for DD or DTS.
 The Bravura has similar virtualization as other X-fi cards althoguh this is a software card. Such as CMSS3D and CMSS-3D for headphones...etc

 No troubles...actually the drivers installed smooth and realy no glitches or bugs showed. I tested the card for quite awhile before I put down any words.


----------



## kumaiti

damn, it would have been the *perfect* soundcard for my current needs.

 How would you compare the amp section on the Bravura with the amp on the Forte and the STX?
 Does it compare to a standalone cheap (~$100, let's say) non-tube amp?

 The "recording" specification from the review applies to the SPDIF-IN also?
 In fact, did you do any testing with the SPDIF-in, can you comment anything about it?


----------



## ROBSCIX

The recording ADC on this card is OK, nothing fancy as I guess they wanted to keep the price down. The amplifiers on the Auzentech cards is discrete, meaning it is built from discrete components. The sound signature of both amps are different but electrically the amplifer has tons of power if you need it. 
 The amps on the Auzentech cards are known to sound quite good for an onboard amplifer. That being said you have to keep the price of the entire card in perspective in comparison to an external amplifer.
 S/Pdif input is usually not noted in specifications as normal specificaitons that apply to analog have no place here. In short, providing there is nothing wrong with the input you shoudl get an exact copy on the input that was present on the output. 

 I usually do simple tests on digital I/O meaning if it works, all is well. If there is dropouts and glitchiness in the sound I will make a note of it for the reader. I have the S/Pdif output connected to a DAC as we speak for testing.
 To note, the S/Pdif output on these cards is great though as it is transformer coupled and that is the prefered design for S/pdif output for many.

 What are your needs?


----------



## kumaiti

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The amps on the Auzentech cards are known to sound quite good *for an onboard amplifer. That being said you have to keep the price of the entire card in perspective in comparison to an external amplifer.*_

 

I would like to criticize the bolded part, if I may.

 First: _for an onboard amplifer._
 I am not an audiophile, I am completely new to this "hobby". I have absolutely no experience with enternal amplifiers of any kind. And considering the review is posted in a computer-oriented website, I am very sure the vast majority of the readers are at the same level as I am. 
 Maybe I should be posting these questions at Guru3D, but I digress...

 Keeping that in mind, let me make a comparison: if someone says "the sound is good for an onboard soundcard", anyone who has listened to an onboard and discrete soundcards of the same generation will know that it is a good sound but not nearly as good as the sound from a discrete soundcard.

 What if one didn't? Then he can't make any comparison. All he can do is turn to people who DID listen to both and *have experience* and ask.

 Now, let me ask: what does that "for an onboard amplifier" mean? Does it mean that, like an onboard soundcard, the sound is just "reasonable" but never as good as discrete soundcard?

*In short:* can you elaborate more from your experience with dozens of external amplifiers (come on, I am sure you had your share of cheap amps...) to give us "computer people" a better idea of the value of these cards as an alternative to a external amp?

 Second: _ you have to keep the price of the entire card in perspective in comparison to an external amplifer._

 Again, let me point you to your audience on Guru3D: we are from all around the world. And it is not all around the world you can find amps at all price ranges. 
 So, sometimes it is necessary for us to compare parts that are of different price ranges. For example: here where I live I am stuck between a STX at $185 or a very very simple external amp at $160. And since return policies here are basically non-existant, I have nowhere to turn other than the reviews to ask "THE" question: how does it compare? Is the STX (or Forte or Bravura) as good as an amp at that price? Is it MUCH worse? 
 ANd that is something that only someone with lots of experience with amp can honestly tell.


*In short*: sometimes a simple "this is a very good amp but not as good as a $100, or even a $50 external amp" or "this amp is very close to a $200 amp I have here" can be EXTREMELY useful for your audience to evaluate the value on these cards.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What are your needs?_

 

Very shortly: other than being a good soundcard, be able to plug my xbox and make use of the built-in amp when gaming on it.


----------



## ROBSCIX

I said the sound is good for an onboard AMPLIFIER.
 OK, the amp and card sounds great, just saying that if you are asking if it will surpass a high end expensive can amplifer it won't. That being said I find it sounded really good and enjoyed the sound very much on my cans. 

 You can plug in a S/Pdif signal from a gaming console but you will have to use normal PCM no encoded Dolby Digital or DTS.


----------



## kumaiti

What about a low-end like this:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f137/p...o-ject-372497/


 Or maybe the cheapest Little Dot MK, which is better know in this forum?


----------



## ROBSCIX

I have never heard that unit. What cans are you using?
 Another great aspect of the Amp in the Bravura is the swappable opamp. You can tune the signature to your taste or to have a better synergy with your cans.

 I think if you just want something to go from your X-Box to a set of headphones you might want to go with a DAC/AMP or a set of "gamer" type cans with a built in Dolby Decoder. 

 If this is your intended use, you have to consider signal latency also on a soundcard. 
 As it is possible the latency would be higher of a signal coming from the digital input routing through the card -adding any effects you want- then on to the amplifer.


----------



## kumaiti

sound from the xbox is just _part_ of the needs. Actually, it would be just icing on the cake because I already have a dolby decoder. It is a looooong story which is just plain OT, so I will just leave that at.

 I have considered a DAC/AMP. Deciding between a DAC/AMP and one of these high-end soundcards (which cost less than half of the cheapest DAC/AMP I can find around here) is the main reason I am trying hard to understand how good is the amp on them. 
 And I don't have any noteworthy headphones. I plan to get one together with the "source". Probably an ATH-AD700 or an AKG 271mkII.


 Back on topic:

 Does the input from the SPDIF go straight to the DAC?


----------



## kumaiti

Quote:


 I have never heard that unit. 
 

Well, any other unit between $100 and $200 that you have access would be a nice comparison. I know it is not on the same price level as the card, but an interesting comparison nonetheless for the reasons I mentioned before.


----------



## ROBSCIX

The card has good sound, from the line outs or the amplifier.
 If it has features you want grab it up...if not look at something else.

 No the S/Pdif input would NOT go straight to the DAC. It would go through the chipset first
 for any processing or routing.
 That's why I said there may be a issue with latency with such a setup as I have seen it before with other cards.


----------



## JulienS

Is it ok (safe) to connect a stereo amplifier to the headphone output, in order to benefit from the better DAC? I did it and everything seems allright, but I just want to make sure. Thanks.
 Great review ROBSCIX!


----------



## ROBSCIX

NO. You can do it but you can overdrive your amplifers inputs.

 The front "speaker" outputs on this card are called Line-level outputs. They are industry standard for conencting to other gear such as amplifers.
 If I was you I woudl use the front line outputs.

 Thanx for the kind words.


----------



## kumaiti

Is it possible to route the Analog input directly to the amp, bypassing ADC > DAC conversion?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kumaiti* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it possible to route the Analog input directly to the amp, bypassing ADC > DAC conversion?_

 

It would depend on how the card handles analog input.
 However, most cards will allow realtime monitoring. Just listening to the analog input without and undo processing.


----------



## kumaiti

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It would depend on how the card handles analog input.
 However, most cards will allow realtime monitoring. Just listening to the analog input without and undo processing._

 

Any chance you could test this?

 It would be a wonderful way to cheat it into working as a "standalone" amp for external sources.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kumaiti* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any chance you could test this?

 It would be a wonderful way to cheat it into working as a "standalone" amp for external sources._

 

I just tested to make sure.
 I set the Flexi-Jack to line input.
 I connected up a Mp3 player I had using 3.5mm to 3.5mm and
 I hear the music over the headphoner which are connected to
 the headphone amplifer.

 I wouldn't call it cheating, most soundcards work in a similar way
 Allowing you to direct monitor the input as I use alot of external gear on soundcards and external devices so I use the line inputs all the time on different devices.


----------



## JulienS

Thanks, ROBSCIX!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JulienS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, ROBSCIX!_

 

No problem, glad I can help.


----------



## germanium

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just tested to make sure.
 I set the Flexi-Jack to line input.
 I connected up a Mp3 player I had using 3.5mm to 3.5mm and
 I hear the music over the headphoner which are connected to
 the headphone amplifer.

 I wouldn't call it cheating, most soundcards work in a similar way
 Allowing you to direct monitor the input as I use alot of external gear on soundcards and external devices so I use the line inputs all the time on different devices._

 

While monitoring is allowed on the Essense STX for example the quality of the direct monitoring when monitoring through the soundcard driver monitoring function can be reduced as it is on the STX. It is 16 bit with no dither on the STX. 16 bit & no dither = massive distortion at very low levels. 

 Using the listen tab in the recording sound properties tab for the line in with everything set for 24 bit audio results in the best quality monitoring. this is full 24 bit monitoring. Those that complained about excess noise when monitoring through the listen tab did not have everything set to 24 bit audio. if anything is set to 16 bit audio that is active in the audio chain & you are using the monitoring though the lisen tab the audio is 16 bit with dither which is noisy but has less distortion than than without dither.

 I do not know if the Auzentech cards are this way & I no way of testing it as I do not have one.


----------



## ROBSCIX

It is not a feature I use often. I consider this feature to be similar to the monitor feature on mixers. It is really just there to check the signal....nothing fancy.
 Just so you can monitor the input. When I check ed the monitor on the Bravura, there was no noticeable distortion, it may have been there but not to the ponit that it was easily heard.
 Thanx for the info.


----------



## germanium

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is not a feature I use often. I consider this feature to be similar to the monitor feature on mixers. It is really just there to check the signal....nothing fancy.
 Just so you can monitor the input. When I check ed the monitor on the Bravura, there was no noticeable distortion, it may have been there but not to the ponit that it was easily heard.
 Thanx for the info._

 

The distortion is only noticable at extremely low recording levels & the ouput at high gain levels. Dither is noticable under the same conditions. Admittedly these are pretty unreasonable levels except with some classical music that is recorded at very high dynamic range that has lots of very soft recording time & explosive peaks. These conditions almost never exist in pop or rock music. Mostly these types of recordings they compress & limit the hell out of them so they are louder than anyone elses or so they think. Quality goes out the window with these.


----------



## JulienS

I'm using this card for a few days now, and I think it's breaking in, it's quite strange but I'm enjoying a very pleasant analog-like sound, it's like I'm listening to tapes, honestly. Those guys from Auzen seem to know how to do it. And the difference from this card to my old X-Fi Gamer is like from heaven to earth, it's like the Bravura is in a totally different and higher league. I'm so pleased with it.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JulienS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm using this card for a few days now, and I think it's breaking in, it's quite strange but I'm enjoying a very pleasant analog-like sound, it's like I'm listening to tapes, honestly. Those guys from Auzen seem to know how to do it. And the difference from this card to my old X-Fi Gamer is like from heaven to earth, it's like the Bravura is in a totally different and higher league. I'm so pleased with it._

 

Sure, the Bravura has a great sound. Auzentech seem to build their cards to have a good signature over having the best possible specs.
 The Bravura 7.1 has a very warm analog type sound, without losing any clarity.


----------



## Copyright

Ok, I sold my Creative X-fi fataility titanium pro and Zero DAC to give this card a try. I realize it wont have the power my Zero had but to be honest I didn't turn it up all that loud. I have Denon D2000 headphones I love and I am hoping they sound card just powered off the card. Can someone let me know if an opamp upgrade would be recommended with this setup? I use M-Audio AV40's on my desk also. I believe my ZERO had the OPA627? I know it was the upgraded one. Thx for any advice. I am more or less trying to simplify my setup by removing the external amp from my setup. This thread has been a great read so far.


----------



## [L]es

i still have my titanium fatality pro and ordered a bravura.. everything in my sig except the cables are gone too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## Cya|\|

So you guys think that this soundcard is even better than the zero dac?


----------



## leeperry

a friend of mine w/ a grado said that the Forte 7.1 had killed his modded zero in the blink of an eye....OTOH the Grado's are not exactly famous for their amazing SS, so YMMV.


----------



## Cya|\|

Can u pls explain me what the capital letters mean? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
 It's too bad that external soundcard can't even compete with internal soundcard, as with a notebook i'm forced to use external soundcard...


----------



## leeperry

your mileage may vary - Wiktionary

 you can find many good external DAC's...like this one: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/ha...eadamp-435443/

 its two BUF634 can drive headphones really well if you check on diyaudio.com...actually, a friend of mine replaced the final buffer opamp w/ two OPA827 on an adapter, and he now prefers it over his STX(that he has sold in the mean time).

 that's their entry level DAC+headamp, but they have another one even more advanced...and there's a huge competition w/ the HLLY AUNE etc etc


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cya|\|* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So you guys think that this soundcard is even better than the zero dac? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I would suggest the same. The Zeros are good place to start and better if you mod them. Soundcards are really starting to get really good using higher quality components. There are great units in both classes, great internal and great external's.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Copyright* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, I sold my Creative X-fi fataility titanium pro and Zero DAC to give this card a try. I realize it wont have the power my Zero had but to be honest I didn't turn it up all that loud. I have Denon D2000 headphones I love and I am hoping they sound card just powered off the card. Can someone let me know if an opamp upgrade would be recommended with this setup? I use M-Audio AV40's on my desk also. I believe my ZERO had the OPA627? I know it was the upgraded one. Thx for any advice. I am more or less trying to simplify my setup by removing the external amp from my setup. This thread has been a great read so far._

 

This card has a great can amplifer on it and it has quite a bit of power.
 You can upgrade every output on this card including the can amplifier.
 I suggest listening to the card first and then judging what you would like to change about the signature then figure out which opamps might give you what your after.


----------



## [L]es

what makes you say all effects (crystallized, cmss-3d, etc) are done only in software mode (offloading to the cpu) ?


----------



## ROBSCIX

The Bravura does not have a DSP chip. It has an audio controller...all effects are processed through software.


----------



## Lyze

Which one for music listening etc. Forte or Bravura? If Forte, Forte or Xonar ST?


----------



## Copyright

Just got mine in today.. my initial thoughts are not as strong as my ZERO but also pretty damn impressive for an onboard amp. Overall I am happy but will give my ears some time. The bass in my Denon AH-D2000 can's isn't as strong and that is depressing. I was getting a click/pop noise when sliding the windows slider bar before the driver was loaded. Now I sometimes get a pop going from track to track but not every time. Should I play with the grounding switch? As far as sound goes I feel like it needs more depth.. I dont know the correct terminology but my ZERO with a 627 sounded amazing to me. Should I swap the op amps? Also I noticed someone running dual 627 opamps? Not sure what to order to play with the fun modification part 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Overall I am happy. Just a little playing with it and I should be good. I game as much as I watch movies and listen to music but I think it will do fine with that also. Thx for any input on what I should try next!

 EDIT: I turned off X-fi CMSS 3D and to me everything started sounding MUCH better.. much more depth to my music and not so bright and in your face. Why do ppl use this?

 EDIT EDIT: Kinda wierd I still get a pop when sliding the windows volume slider but its not every time I slide it.. I can adjust the sound like 5 times and will get a pop after.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, the processing can mess up your imaging and is really only usable for certain situation...gaming with headphones for example. CMSS3D can upmix 2.0 to surround or can take surround audio from games and virtualize it for headphones. If you are not into these tasks then I would leave it off.
 The grounding switch is more for hum and buzz is your PC's power system/audio system has a ground loop. That is not what you are describing...
 Do you have Windows sounds enabled, Dings for windows etc?
 If you do, disable them..they can cause this on soundcards if the sounds are a different sampling rate then your card is set for. Your card is constantly switching bit depths when there is a simple ding.
 I had some dual 627 and 637s on this card but right now I am rocking a OPA2111AM TO-99 metal can opamp. Very hard to find and sounds very good! This unit even had gold pins before I soldered it on the adapters.


----------



## Copyright

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, the processing can mess up your imaging and is really only usable for certain situation...gaming with headphones for example. CMSS3D can upmix 2.0 to surround or can take surround audio from games and virtualize it for headphones. If you are not into these tasks then I would leave it off.
 The grounding switch is more for hum and buzz is your PC's power system/audio system has a ground loop. That is not what you are describing...
 Do you have Windows sounds enabled, Dings for windows etc?
 If you do, disable them..they can cause this on soundcards if the sounds are a different sampling rate then your card is set for. Your card is constantly switching bit depths when there is a simple ding.
 I had some dual 627 and 637s on this card but right now I am rocking a OPA2111AM TO-99 metal can opamp. Very hard to find and sounds very good! This unit even had gold pins before I soldered it on the adapters._

 

Mind giving me some links to possible upgrades i can play with? I hate to order the wrong stuff


----------



## JulienS

Also make sure that your sound card is set on with the default bit depth (which should be 16/48 - DVD Quality). If lower or higher, you will get some pops, at least I did....
 I always turn off CMSS and Crystallizer, they do nothing good to the sound, on the contrary...


----------



## Copyright

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JulienS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also make sure that your sound card is set on with the default bit depth (which should be 16/48 - DVD Quality). If lower or higher, you will get some pops, at least I did....
 I always turn off CMSS and Crystallizer, they do nothing good to the sound, on the contrary..._

 

Where do I set the bit depth at? Also has anyone played with the "Modes" and noticed a difference? Also it seems a there is a bit of lag when opening up the control panel for the volume.

 EDIT: I found its set to 16/48 DVD Quality. Is there any benefit to setting that higher? Sorry for the newb questions. The pops are random and not all that bothering since it happens only when going to the next song etc.


----------



## JulienS

I wouldn't set the bith depth at a higher value. I mean, I don't think that upsampling is of any benefit, not to my ears anyway. I tried all the modes only to find out that the default one (at least on my card), Performance 1, is the best.
 Do you, by any chance, have a Nvidia chipset-based motherboard?


----------



## Juiced

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Copyright* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ sometimes get a pop going from track to track but not every time._

 

same here but it's not bothering me ..

 something weird at 44.1HZ 16/24bit i here shhhhh when i turn off the music


----------



## ROBSCIX

What are you using for your output plugins? Are you using foobar or winamp?
 What OS?


----------



## Copyright

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What are you using for your output plugins? Are you using foobar or winamp?
 What OS?_

 

Using Windows 7. Right now im using just my headphones but waiting on my cable to come in to connect my AV40's. Might throw a small sub into the mix. I think its cool you can set a cutoff on the headphones for the bass. What I dont know is the slope they are using on that cutoff and will I have this option to cut the low freq going to my AV40's? This would be really neat to let the sub provide bass and stop the AV40s from going into distortion early because of heavy bass tracks. I am fairly familiar with car audio using crossovers etc. Thx for any advice. Now that I turned off CMSS3D it sounds almost a little to laid back. Seems like CMSS3D helps gaming though. I will download Foobar.. is it better then winamp? I normally just use Windows Media player lately. Part of me wishes I had gotten the Forte but not sure if the amp is as strong on that one and the upgradeable OPamps sounds like some mod fun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Wow.. dual 627 is pricey. The dual socket is wider on this one then the one on page 10 of this thread. Is a single 627 still an upgrade?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Dual-to-Mono-Opa...item53da79d0a1


----------



## ROBSCIX

CMSS is essential for many when gaming over headphones as it virtualizes a surround enivorment. You can hear sounds from behind..side, front..different elevations...etc.
 EAX/OpenAL games usually work the best with such technologies.
 For normal music, I would leave such processing off.
 Foobar is a great player but can be a bit tricky for beginners.
 The amps are pretty much the same on both cards although the Bravura allows you to modify the signature of the amp using opamps.
 There are different sockets depending on what version of the chip you go with.
 There are smaller surface mount units(SOIC8), Through hole units (DIP8) and metal can units (TO-99)


----------



## Copyright

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_CMSS is essential for many when gaming over headphones as it virtualizes a surround enivorment. You can hear sounds from behind..side, front..different elevations...etc.
 EAX/OpenAL games usually work the best with such technologies.
 For normal music, I would leave such processing off.
 Foobar is a great player but can be a bit tricky for beginners.
 The amps are pretty much the same on both cards although the Bravura allows you to modify the signature of the amp using opamps.
 There are different sockets depending on what version of the chip you go with.
 There are smaller surface mount units(SOIC8), Through hole units (DIP8) and metal can units (TO-99)_

 

Thanks this clears things up for me. This card works for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I saw teh smaller opamp units. There is a double sided version with a chip above and chip under 2 x OPA627. Are these as good as the full size units? I found those for about 32$ on ebay. Think they are worth a try? I am trying to get the sound as close to my Zero as possible.


----------



## ROBSCIX

They are basically the same. Just different package types. Although the metal can units are considered to be the best out of any opamp family. What are you modding the headphones output opamp?


----------



## Copyright

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They are basically the same. Just different package types. Although the metal can units are considered to be the best out of any opamp family. What are you modding the headphones output opamp?_

 

Honestly I just want something to play with and learn the different sounds of the opamps. I am sure the Front 2ch is where I should start. This is what will be driving my AV40s. Can you tell me if this opamp would be a good choice to play with? 

Two 2x Mono to Dual OPAMP 2x OPA627 -> NE5532 OPA2604 - eBay (item 160384940162 end time Apr-05-10 10:20:02 PDT)


----------



## Tantalus000

I just got this card off newegg yesterday, listening to it using the built in headphone amp. It is much better than my Saffire LE! Works fine with Windows 7 64bit as well, have not had any issues.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Copyright* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Honestly I just want something to play with and learn the different sounds of the opamps. I am sure the Front 2ch is where I should start. This is what will be driving my AV40s. Can you tell me if this opamp would be a good choice to play with? 

Two 2x Mono to Dual OPAMP 2x OPA627 -> NE5532 OPA2604 - eBay (item 160384940162 end time Apr-05-10 10:20:02 PDT)_

 

Well, if you are using headphones, then start with that. If you go with the fronts then you lose the headphone amplifer or your using speakers perhaps.
 The only way to test is to sit down with some opamps and some known tunes and test.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tantalus000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got this card off newegg yesterday, listening to it using the built in headphone amp. It is much better than my Saffire LE! Works fine with Windows 7 64bit as well, have not had any issues._

 

I found the Bravura very solid when testing and it has great sound for stock. 
 I use my own custom built opamps for some higher level tuning.


----------



## Copyright

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, if you are using headphones, then start with that. If you go with the fronts then you lose the headphone amplifer or your using speakers perhaps.
 The only way to test is to sit down with some opamps and some known tunes and test._

 

Not sure what you mean by loseing the headphone amplifier? I will be using both. I thought the front output and headphone amplifier use seperate opamps? Opamp should still effect teh sound to my AV40s correct? They are self powered. Looks like Auzentech sells the opamp I listed for ~65$ and I can get it for half that on ebay so might buy one and play with it. The more I listen to the headphones the more impressive this card seems. From what Ive been reading its the other opamps that probably need playing with. Just waiting on my stupid cable to come in to hook up the AV40s!


----------



## Juiced

Copyright there's mutch cheaper 2XOPA627

Dual to Mono Op amp module 4558 NE5532 TL072 to OPA627 - eBay (item 360213670439 end time Mar-31-10 19:38:37 PDT)

  Quote:


 TWO SOIC OPA627AU With ONE Single Dual Op Amp to Dual Op Amp adapter.


----------



## leeperry

you might as well use OPA627BP, it's a higher grade.






 I've just received a double AD797BR module from this chinese ebay seller, one of the pins of the bottom chip is poorly soldered.


----------



## Tantalus000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I found the Bravura very solid when testing and it has great sound for stock. 
 I use my own custom built opamps for some higher level tuning._

 

I'll definitely be getting some different opamps to play with, the stock ones are pretty good I must say. Can I plug the headphone out into a headphone amplifier to get it louder though? Or would I have to use one of the other outputs into a headphone amp?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Copyright* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not sure what you mean by loseing the headphone amplifier? I will be using both. I thought the front output and headphone amplifier use seperate opamps? Opamp should still effect teh sound to my AV40s correct? They are self powered. Looks like Auzentech sells the opamp I listed for ~65$ and I can get it for half that on ebay so might buy one and play with it. The more I listen to the headphones the more impressive this card seems. From what Ive been reading its the other opamps that probably need playing with. Just waiting on my stupid cable to come in to hook up the AV40s!_

 

I just meant if you use the front output you no longer have the amplifer on the output.
 For opamps the Bravura is set up like this(stock):

 Headphones output ->LME49720NA
 Front Output-> NJM5532
 Rear Output->NJM5532
 Center/Sub->JRC4580
 Side->NJM5532

 If you are using headphones only, then change the one for the can amp. If you are using both cans and speaker you can change them all out. I like the 627/637 but I like others more and I have the highest grade of 627/637s available. Don't get me wrong they are great opamps but there are many great opamps around.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tantalus000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll definitely be getting some different opamps to play with, the stock ones are pretty good I must say. Can I plug the headphone out into a headphone amplifier to get it louder though? Or would I have to use one of the other outputs into a headphone amp?_

 

I use custom built opamps for every output on that card.
 Yes, you plug the headphones into the 1/4" output. The top opamp is for the can amp. 

 If you want to drive an external headphone amplifer, you would connect that to the line outputs.
 I have seen people driving one headphone amp using the output of another but that can cause trouble with distortion and lower your SNR.


----------



## leeperry

OPA637 is not recommended w/ the Bravura: Auzentech: OPAMPS

 it's only stable for >4 gain, so clearly not a drop-in replacement to the stock LM4562NA.


----------



## Tantalus000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OPA637 is not recommended w/ the Bravura: Auzentech: OPAMPS

 it's only stable for >4 gain, so clearly not a drop-in replacement to the stock LM4562NA._

 

Ok, well, how about the 627SM.


----------



## leeperry

utter waste of money? you can get a Burson V2 for the price of two of these things.







 if you wanna cure digitis, that's where the party's at


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OPA637 is not recommended w/ the Bravura: Auzentech: OPAMPS

 it's only stable for >4 gain, so clearly not a drop-in replacement to the stock LM4562NA._

 

Actually, the 637's work just fine on that card. The discretes are nice but just another flavor of opamp.
 They are far from the be all to end all of opamps. You will learn that once you test more units and get a bit more experience under your belt. To note, it is actually gains >5...


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tantalus000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, well, how about the 627SM._

 

You would be better off talking with people that actually own the card.
 The 637 works fine on the Bravura 7.1. I would keep things in perspective though as they are twice the price of the card. There are many great units out there. You don't need to go nuts and drop $250...


----------



## Tantalus000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You would be better off talking with people that actually own the card.
 The 637 works fine on the Bravura 7.1. I would keep things in perspective though as they are twice the price of the card. There are many great units out there. You don't need to go nuts and drop $250..._

 

The 637SM's are $35 with shipping each, I'm assuming I'll need two of them so lets say $70+ the cost of the adapter board. On Azunentechs website its like $250 for the setup for both the IC's and the adapter board. Just looking to save some money. The 637BP is pretty cheap at $51 but its not the "can" version.

2x OPA637BP With adapter High-Speed Difet Op Amp OPA637 - eBay (item 360213678805 end time Mar-31-10 20:11:48 PDT)


----------



## Tantalus000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use custom built opamps for every output on that card.
 Yes, you plug the headphones into the 1/4" output. The top opamp is for the can amp. 

 If you want to drive an external headphone amplifer, you would connect that to the line outputs.
 I have seen people driving one headphone amp using the output of another but that can cause trouble with distortion and lower your SNR._

 

Ok, I've scoured eBay and i've found the 627 and 637 direct swap in opamps in the adaptor board already but I want to try the 637SM. Found a seller with the can 637SM opamps but without the adaptor board (just the IC itself). I'm no stranger to soldering, where can I find the adaptor board that I can solder those bad boys into to plug into this thing?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tantalus000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 637SM's are $35 with shipping each, I'm assuming I'll need two of them so lets say $70+ the cost of the adapter board. On Azunentechs website its like $250 for the setup for both the IC's and the adapter board. Just looking to save some money. The 637BP is pretty cheap at $51 but its not the "can" version.

2x OPA637BP With adapter High-Speed Difet Op Amp OPA637 - eBay (item 360213678805 end time Mar-31-10 20:11:48 PDT)_

 



 Well many like the metal can version because they are the highest greade of any opamp series. The 637's are similar to the 627s but they have a bit more upper end. I know most of my favorites are TO-99 metal can opamps.
 Whay are you starting out with these? There are many other opamps that you would like that are not so pricey to start out with.


----------



## Tantalus000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well many like the metal can version because they are the highest greade of any opamp series. The 637's are similar to the 627s but they have a bit more upper end. I know most of my favorites are TO-99 metal can opamps.
 Whay are you starting out with these? There are many other opamps that you would like that are not so pricey to start out with._

 

I don't mind spending the money, I just want the best. What would you personally recommend to start out with for just the can amp section of the card?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tantalus000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't mind spending the money, I just want the best. What would you personally recommend to start out with for just the can amp section of the card?_

 

Whoa, stop right there. No such things as "the best"... This hobby is totally subjective. What I like and find great you may find mid grade..etc.
 The AD8620, Dual LME49710HA,LME49720HA..OPA2111AM..you might like the AD797...OPA827
 I could write two pages of units you might like, there are many flavors of opamps and your gear also plays a part in what the end results will be.


----------



## Tantalus000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whoa, stop right there. No such things as "the best"... This hobby is totally subjective. What I like and find great you may find mid grade..etc.
 The AD8620, Dual LME49710HA,LME49720HA..OPA2111AM..you might like the AD797.
 I could write two pages of units you might like, there are many flavors of opamps and your gear also plays a part in what the end results will be._

 

Anything that gives a more open "airy" space than the stock headphone amp. It seems a little closed and tight. I don't mind trying out a lot until I find the right one, thats the fun in it right? I'm running the headphone amp straight into my DT-770's right now.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Opamps can get to be a hobby in itself. The stock opamp is the LME49720NA... Which is basically a LM4562NA. If you like the sound of that family but want a little more refinement the LME49710HA -dual metal can unit may work better for you.
 I have also been testing a OPA2111AM lately and that sucker has some great sound.
 It is hard to recommend units to others as they have different gear and tastes.

 Is it just the sound stage you don't like?


----------



## JulienS

ROBSCIX, what op-amp would you recommend for the front out? Thank you. I wouldn't change the op-amps for the headphone output right now, as the sound is so good that I don't wanna touch it for now. But I think I need a wider stereo image on the front out.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JulienS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ROBSCIX, what op-amp would you recommend for the front out? Thank you. I wouldn't change the op-amps for the headphone output right now, as the sound is so good that I don't wanna touch it for now. But I think I need a wider stereo image on the front out._

 

I was using a dual LME49710HA module as seen in the picture. That unit sounds similar to the sound on the can out but has some refinements. Right now though, I am testing out some OPA2111AM's...
 They are some high end metal can opamps, I had heard some great things about them so I bought up a few and built some modules and so far I have been really impressed. 

 When you listen to the card, what is wrong with he front out? -This is just a question to help me understand what you are looking for. The stock opamp is a NJM5532 which is a generic audio opamp, it has a gritty, warm type of sound to it. There are many opamps that are considered much better then this unit.


----------



## thezfunk

I knew I should have come here first. I, too have a Bravura and I am interested in upgrades. 

 Does anyone have a good explanation to the modes and the mode buttons?

 I also don't care for the front stereo opamps. I loved my Revo and would like something to get me closer to that. I have the M-Audio LX4 speakers if that helps anyone.


----------



## ROBSCIX

The mode buttons are explained in the manual. They are basically there for different types of cans and microphones.

 The stock opamps actually sound reasonable on this card but the card can sound so much better with some opamap upgrades. They are meant to be changed out so Auzentech used generic opamp to keep the price down.


----------



## thezfunk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The mode buttons are explained in the manual. They are basically there for different types of cans and microphones.

 The stock opamps actually sound reasonable on this card but the card can sound so much better with some opamap upgrades. They are meant to be changed out so Auzentech used generic opamp to keep the price down._

 

I realize that the modes are 'explained' in the manual. They aren't 'explained' very well. I was hoping someone with more experience than myself played around with it and had some witty or intelligent suggestions. 

 I know the card supports opamp upgrades. That's why I asked about it! I sort of explained what I had previously and liked and what I use for hearing devices. Again, I was hoping someone with more knowledge than I could add some witty or intelligent suggestions.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Well what do you need to know about the modes that is not explained in the manual? It is a pretty simple idea, you change modes based on the headphones you are using. If you are using high end cans you will use one mode and if you are using say cheaper generic type cans you would use another. There is a switchable filter that can be used in certain modes. The other switch is for different microphones, if you are using a high grade mic you use one mode and if you are using a cheaper generic type mic use another.

 As for the opamps, many have been swapping out the stock opamps for some higher grade units. MEtal can version such as the LME49720HA, dual LME49710HA and recently I have been testing the OPA2111AM which sounds very good on this card.


----------



## jalyst

Hey this card doesn't support S/PDIF-in or PAP right?

 I've checked and from what I can see the answer is "no" on both counts.
 But just checking with ya'll as someone reckoned it should.

 Pretty sure the only two that do PAP are; HDAV1.3 & HomeTheatre HD.
 Which is a pretty sad indictment really....


----------



## ROBSCIX

The Bravura 7.1 has S/Pdif input but doesn't support the PAP.


----------



## jalyst

Hmm not sure how i missed that one...
 Still I'd prefer something cheaper as i only want a 2nd card for s/pdif-in decode, nothing else.


----------



## ROBSCIX

This is not the card you're looking for. There are not any recent consumer based cards that offer S/Pdif decoding through hardware.


----------



## reiserFS

Greetings fellow Bravura owners, just got my pair of AKG K 701s today and have a question regarding the I/O hard-switches on the PCB.

 I've set MODE 1 to SET 1 when my PC was up and running, but does the set mode remain when the PC is powered down or is in sleep mode? I don't really feel like opening my case every time.

 Thanks in advance,
 reiserFS


----------



## Junliang

Sorry for the noob question.. 
 but isn't x-fi something like a property of creative ??
 or is Auzentech collaborating with creative to come out with x-fi ??
 and stuff like cmss-3d.. eax..
 how does Auzentech cards compare with creative sound blasters ??


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Junliang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry for the noob question.. 
 but isn't x-fi something like a property of creative ??
 or is Auzentech collaborating with creative to come out with x-fi ??
 and stuff like cmss-3d.. eax..
 how does Auzentech cards compare with creative sound blasters ??_

 

Creative Licenses the technology to Auzentech.
 Auzentechs X-Fi's use higher quality DAC's caps, opamps and are just overall better designed cards. However they usually carry a hefty price tag in comparison.
 This card is a software card though as the chipset differs from the 20K1 and 20K2.

 Their upcoming Titanium HD may be a shift in the tide where Creative is trying to aim at the higher price brackets. That upcoming card seems to take quite a few pages fromAuzentechs design books.


----------



## Morb

Thinking of picking up one of these auzentechs. Which one do you recommend... the forte or the bravura?


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Morb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thinking of picking up one of these auzentechs. Which one do you recommend... the forte or the bravura?_

 

it all boils down to whether you want your static noise to sound like BZZZZZZZZ or SSSSSSSSHHHHHHH. tough choice, I know.

 read the last pages of both threads, and see for yourself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





*PS:* a friend of mine owned both, and sold both...due to noise issues.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Morb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thinking of picking up one of these auzentechs. Which one do you recommend... the forte or the bravura?_

 

The Forte is a hardware card and has the can amp also but you cannot modify the opamps on the card aside from the front outputs.

 The Bravura is a software card but you can modify all the opamps on the card including the can amplifier. I game with it also and it is a very fast card must have some driver tweaking.
 Most of the owners in this thread use custom opamps on the card which improves the sound over stock and tweaks it more to our personal systems.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *reiserFS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Greetings fellow Bravura owners, just got my pair of AKG K 701s today and have a question regarding the I/O hard-switches on the PCB.

 I've set MODE 1 to SET 1 when my PC was up and running, but does the set mode remain when the PC is powered down or is in sleep mode? I don't really feel like opening my case every time.

 Thanks in advance,
 reiserFS_

 

Yes the setting is saved to the card. I only set it once and it has stayed the same ever since.


----------



## JulienS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I game with it also and it is a very fast card must have some driver tweaking._

 

Yeah, I noticed that too. I'm really glad I bought this card, the sound gets better and better as it breaks in. Just bought two pairs of Sennheiser, one with 32 ohm and another one with 50 ohm, and the sound is really awesome.


----------



## ROBSCIX

For sure, it is a good little card for the price. I use custom opamps also with this unit so it sounds better then stock. I use speaker and a set of HD595's with this source.


----------



## JulienS

I use Senn HD 555 and Senn CX 870. I use the CX 870 with music and 555 with games. Yeah, I know that 555 are meant for music, but that bass gives me headaches. I'm more of a highhead, instead of basshead 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. And the CX 870 is crystal through this card.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Just thinking of an opamp that might offer you a bit better bass response for that card and your cans. The LME49710HA would offer better low end bass but less mid so it sounds less "husky" in comparison to the LME49720NA.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Here are someother configuraitons I have been testing on this card:
 Head amp: OPA2111AM
 Fronts: LME49710HA
 Rears: LME49710HA
 CNT/SUB: LME49710HA/OPA227P
 Sides: JRC5532 -I don't use the side outputs.





 These OPA2111AM's I built sound great on this design. Actually they sound great in every design I have tested them on.
 Head amp: OPA2111AM
 Fronts: OPA2111AM
 Rears: OPA2111AM
 CNT/SUB: LME49710HA/OPA227P
 Sides: JRC5532 -I don't use the side outputs.





 I have also been testing out the OPA627 for the headphone amplifier and it has good synergy with that design.


----------



## thezfunk

Finally! Some audio card pr0n.

 I see that I can pickup OPA2111AM at Newark for $28.00

TEXAS INSTRUMENTS|OPA2111AM|Operational Amplifier (Op-Amp | Newark.com

 Then I just need to get a socket adapter and soldier it up?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes. I have been testing them for awhile they sound pretty good although they are a bit pricey.


----------



## JulienS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just thinking of an opamp that might offer you a bit better bass response for that card and your cans. The LME49710HA would offer better low end bass but less mid so it sounds less "husky" in comparison to the LME49720NA._

 

I'm going for your recommendation and order the LME49710HA opamp with the adapter. 
Auzentech, Inc. OPAMP

 I will try it for the headphone output and front stereo output. Could you please explain me how many of these adapters with right - left channels do I need for these two outputs? I guess two of them, two adapters each with two opamps, but just want to make sure.
 And how do I change the opamps? I just take out the ones in the socket (by pulling upright) and insert the new ones?


----------



## ROBSCIX

You require 1 unit for each stereo output. If you want 1 for the heapdheons and one for the fronts you need to purchase 2.
 Yes, pull out the old ones and inster the new ones. If you use headphones all the time you may want to just go with one.


----------



## jalyst

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is not the card you're looking for. There are not any recent consumer based cards that offer S/Pdif decoding through hardware._

 

Actually it not that expensive after checking... 
 But you know for a fact it doesn't do dd/dts decode, only s/pdif-in?
 The only other recent cards I've found seem to be creative, but decode apparently only works well in XP


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, I know for a fact. No input decoding just normal stereo PCM S/pdif input.
 I have mentioned that fact to you that many of the cards that do offer decoding have had those features removed in Vista.


----------



## Juiced

can the HP AMP with AD797BR handle AKG K702?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Juiced* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_can the HP AMP with AD797BR handle AKG K702?_

 

Yes, the AD797 will be used as a Pre-buffer, all the power for the amplifier comes from the discrete amplifier section. If you look you can see a bunch of small surface mount transistors. You will be fine as this amplifier has a great deal of power.


----------



## ROBSCIX

I think I am going to pull out some discrete opamps and have a listen.


----------



## FeiJai

Is the Bravura better than the Forte for music and movies? I know the Forte has the Creative X-chip and EAX5 but I was wondering if the Bravura is just the Forte minus those components/features or is it internally different?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Stock, the output sections are very similar. However, the Forte only has one swappable opamp on the front channel output. Other aspects are very similar such as the capacitors and layout. The BRavura 7.1 uses a software chip and the Forte uses a hardware DSP chip. The chips are different as on the BRavura gaming support is done through software. I put the Bravura aginst a Forte and played a bunch of games and they measured very close.


----------



## FeiJai

Thanks. I might as well save a few dollars and grab the Bravura instead.


----------



## ROBSCIX

No problem, both are great cards but have differing features.


----------



## greenarrow

Greetings fellow Bravura owners, need some inputs on this card as I'm a noob.

 Can I connect the Bravura digital output to my audio-gd compass using the supplied cable? Will the sound from this connection be better than using usb from the pc? I'm having a AKG K702 for gaming and music listening.

 Comments greatly appreciated.


----------



## ROBSCIX

It depends on the soces of the DAC's USB input. Using the Bravura will allow all effects etc to be passed through to the DAC.


----------



## mideel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *greenarrow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Greetings fellow Bravura owners, need some inputs on this card as I'm a noob.

 Can I connect the Bravura digital output to my audio-gd compass using the supplied cable? Will the sound from this connection be better than using usb from the pc? I'm having a AKG K702 for gaming and music listening.

 Comments greatly appreciated._

 

You can and should use the digital output comming from your sound card!
 When you are using an USB sound "card", the processing is being done by the computers CPU, even if you have a real sound card attached. When you use your compass with the USB (compass uses a PCM2707) you are actually (most likely) using the default drivers for sound output, that lack all of the benefits of your Bravura (bit matched playback, EAX effects etc.), meaning you are not using your sound card at all.

 If you got the same accessories that I got with my Forte, you should have an Optical S/PDIF cable and a small transparent plastic adapter that plugs into the other end of the cable, just plug the adapter on the end of the cable that connects to your sound card and the other end to your compass and use the Bravura as the output device (and remember to unmute the digital output in the Bravura control panel/drivers).


----------



## ROBSCIX

If a Compass uses a 2702 then you are looking at 16/48khz audio when using USB IIRC.
 In that case alone you are better off running through S/pdif output.
 If you use the S/pdif output on the Bravura then you still have all the featurs of the Bravua 7.1 available through the DAC.
 The Bravura 7.1 is also transformer coupled for the S/pdif output which is the prefered design for many.


----------



## palanoid

id like to know if the cmss-3d feature in this card has any difference from the one in a hardware x-fi DSP,like CL xtremegamer,in terms of the effect or performance. also,has anyone compared this card to audiotrak prodigy 7.1e? by looking at the rmaa charts in the reviews done by guru3d, it seems bravura performs slightly better. is it correct to assume so? thank you


----------



## greenarrow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mideel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can and should use the digital output comming from your sound card!
 When you are using an USB sound "card", the processing is being done by the computers CPU, even if you have a real sound card attached. When you use your compass with the USB (compass uses a PCM2707) you are actually (most likely) using the default drivers for sound output, that lack all of the benefits of your Bravura (bit matched playback, EAX effects etc.), meaning you are not using your sound card at all.

 If you got the same accessories that I got with my Forte, you should have an Optical S/PDIF cable and a small transparent plastic adapter that plugs into the other end of the cable, just plug the adapter on the end of the cable that connects to your sound card and the other end to your compass and use the Bravura as the output device (and remember to unmute the digital output in the Bravura control panel/drivers)._

 

I've the same accessories like what you have listed. With this type of connection, will I be able to use my 5.1 speaker setup? Or, only the Compass for my AKG headphone.

 Pardon for my many questions as I'm a noob in this sort of thing


----------



## ROBSCIX

The compass would only allow you stereo output to a set of stereo speakers or headphones. If you wanted full surround sound, a DAC solution is not the right way to go. You can conenct the DAC to the digital output on the card and have all the features through the DAC such as CMSS3D..EAX..etc.

 @Palanoid, The effects are exactly the same, I have heard both hardware and software based examples and hear no difference between them.


----------



## ROBSCIX

For the last little while I have been testing out the Bravura using some production discrete opamps and some custom built units and getting great results. The Bravura has a very "analog" type sound IMO so the discrete help bring more of that aspect out of the signature. I will post more details of what I am hearing when I get some time for those interested.


----------



## foureight84

So I bought a pair of OPA627AU from ebay from (lawrence chan aka biglawhk), and I swapped out my front channel I couldn't hear the difference. I decided to use RMAA to get some numbers to compare the OPA627AU against the stock generic opamps. The result is that there's a minute difference between the two... Anyone with a pair of 627au or 627bp want to run RMAA and share the data? I'm really curious to see some more data on this.

 Btw, i'm using a pair of Audioengine A2 on my front and my sub (polk psw111) is connected to the speakers via rca cables. I can't seem to get the sub going when it's connected to the cnt/sub out from the bravura via 3.5mm to rca.

 I'm attaching my test results. [DirectSound] Speakers (Auzen X-Fi Bravura 7_1) 24-bit, 48 kHz.sav

 I also found some RMAA result from the japanese Auzentech website. It loosk like they ran the same test I did with the headphones port... My results are no where near these. They're along the same line as the results i posted above for my front channel.

 Here is the link: http://www.auzentech.jp/site/company/a_news25.php


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *foureight84* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I bought a pair of OPA627AU from ebay from (lawrence chan aka biglawhk), and I swapped out my front channel I couldn't hear the difference. I decided to use RMAA to get some numbers to compare the OPA627AU against the stock generic opamps. The result is that there's a minute difference between the two... Anyone with a pair of 627au or 627bp want to run RMAA and share the data? I'm really curious to see some more data on this.

 Btw, i'm using a pair of Audioengine A2 on my front and my sub (polk psw111) is connected to the speakers via rca cables. I can't seem to get the sub going when it's connected to the cnt/sub out from the bravura via 3.5mm to rca.

 I'm attaching my test results. [DirectSound] Speakers (Auzen X-Fi Bravura 7_1) 24-bit, 48 kHz.sav

 I also found some RMAA result from the japanese Auzentech website. It loosk like they ran the same test I did with the headphones port... My results are no where near these. They're along the same line as the results i posted above for my front channel.

 Here is the link: http://www.auzentech.jp/site/company/a_news25.php_

 

Well as many know what you can measure and what you can hear is usually very different. If you are running RMAA tests on a headphones output you need to load the output. Headphone outputs distortion measurments can change based on what the load is connected to it.
 You cannot get the sub working unless you are in 5.1 to 7.1 mode and have the card set for Bass redirection.
 Also, for what you hear is based on what you are using for your playback gear. If you are using lower grade speakers or amplifiers, chances are you are not going to hear any difference between similar sounding opamps.


----------



## foureight84

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well as many know what you can measure and what you can hear is usually very different. If you are running RMAA tests on a headphones output you need to load the output. Headphone outputs distortion measurments can change based on what the load is connected to it.
 You cannot get the sub working unless you are in 5.1 to 7.1 mode and have the card set for Bass redirection.
 Also, for what you hear is based on what you are using for your playback gear. If you are using lower grade speakers or amplifiers, chances are you are not going to hear any difference between similar sounding opamps._

 

Good point. Speakers do matter. But I think my A2 are decent enough to project the differences. I spent all morning listening to Norah Jones's first album, and so far it's a better experience than yesterday. I am noticing more details that I could not hear before but was able to hear on my headphones.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Speaker, phones...they are major parts of the equation. Also, if you pop in a new opamp chances are your not going to hear a major difference unless somthing is really out of place. Opamps offer more of subtle changes, some offermore then others. You will need to spend some time listening to the new opamp. Give yourself a chance to hear the new response.


----------



## Amberlights08

Hi there, I have just got the azuentech bravura, but I have only notice tiny increase in performance with my HD555. I think I need better headphones to take advantage of the card. I was thinking of getting a HD595, would I see a decent improvement compared to HD555? Someone also recommend me the SRH840 which I do not know much about.

 I am looking to spend somewhere in the $200 and flexible within an extra $50-$75. Or should I get some new opamp for the card?


 I am currently using foobar2000 with its default settings on Window 7.


----------



## genclaymore

If you gonna get headphones if you dont mind closed back then you can grab some Ultrasone HFI 580/ Pro 650 off amazon. I own a HFI-780 my self its another choice for closed back headphones as well but you just have to find it under 200 if your lucky.

 As for op-amps, I suggest some OPA 2111KP that you can get as samples from burr brown which I use for my speakers op-amp sockets. While I use OPA2111AM(Metal can) with my headphones op-amp sockets.

 Also some LME 49720NA's would work in your headphone amp, i actuall suggest you get a couple and try them out on your setup.


----------



## [L]es

ordered one. should be here in a few weeks... what dual type opamps can i get for this ?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *[L]es* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ordered one. should be here in a few weeks... what dual type opamps can i get for this ?_

 

Listen to the card stock first and then you can decide if you want to change anything. There are many opamps you can use in this card, go back a few pages and you should see some examples I posted of opamps setups to use with this card.


----------



## [L]es

most of them are singles i think that you need adaptors for .


----------



## thezfunk

Ok...I knew I felt this card was missing something.
   
  In the past few days I have received some:
   
  OPA2111KP - Dual Channel
  OPA227P -  Single Channel
  LME49720HA - Dual Channel
  LME49710HA - Single Channel
   
  Right now I have the OPA2111KP's in.  They were the only ones I didn't need adapters for.  I now have $40 worth of said adapters on order from BrownDog .  I wasn't sure I would be able to tell a difference from the stock op amps but I was amazed.  The OPA2111KP's give much wider stereo separation and more punch to the bass.  I can't wait to try the other ones.
   
  Are there any others I should be looking at?


----------



## [L]es

hey thezfunk. thanks for that ! quite helpful. i will start looking for opa2111kp .


----------



## ROBSCIX

I am using the OPA2111AM, which is the same as the unit your using except it is the metal can version.  There are two people using the AM module on the Bravura that hang around this site.


----------



## stang

Looks interesting. Since X-Fi is useless and CMSS-3D is very useful IME, I am looking at the Auzentech X-FI Bravura 7.1. I want to use the headphone out for AD700 when I game and the Coaxial out to my DAC. I also require PCI-E (PCI is getting rather old now), so this looks great. I am just wondering if I should just go for the Asus Xonar STX. My main concern is positional audio in games and the quality of digital out to my DAC (Zero, saving for Matrix Mini-i). What sound card do you think I should go for? Or even the Auzentech Forte, considering I will only be using the headphone out and Coaxial out.


----------



## thezfunk

Quote: 





robscix said:


> I am using the OPA2111AM, which is the same as the unit your using except it is the metal can version.  There are two people using the AM module on the Bravura that hang around this site.


 

 I would have gone with the AM but the KP was free.  It's hard to argue with free!


----------



## hazardous

ok so I'm interested in trying out some different opamps for the can output, but I know nothing about what kind of adapters I would need etc. Would I need an adapter for a OPA2111AM? I've also used opa627 in another device and really enjoyed it, but I have no idea which specific model or the adapters I would need.


----------



## thezfunk

Quote: 





hazardous said:


> ok so I'm interested in trying out some different opamps for the can output, but I know nothing about what kind of adapters I would need etc. Would I need an adapter for a OPA2111AM? I've also used opa627 in another device and really enjoyed it, but I have no idea which specific model or the adapters I would need.


 

 To go from a metal cap style (TO-99) to a 9-pin DIP you will need http://cimarrontechnology.com/to-99to8-pindipadapterpn020601-1.aspx.  That adapter is all you need if you are using a dual channel TO-99 metal cap op amp.  If you are using a single channel you have to combine two of them.  So after you solder it to that adapter you will have to put it into http://cimarrontechnology.com/single-to-dualop-ampadapter-dipversionpn021001.aspx.  That adapter doesn't come with DIP sockets installed so you either have to pay the extra $6.00 to have them do it or order two http://cimarrontechnology.com/8-pindipicsocket.aspx and solder them on yourself.
   
  If you are using the SO8 version of the chips you will need some different adapters which Brown Dog also carries.


----------



## ROBSCIX

No, you do not use a TO-99 and then solder it to a dual DIP8 adapter.  If you're going to use TO-99 make sure you know the difference between units that are dual and single channel.  The OPA2111AM I mentioned are dual channel they require a TO-99 to Dip8 adapter.
   
  You have three different package types
  1, SOIC8 - surface mount chips
  2, DIP8 - Through hole design (used on the card stock)
  3, TO-99 -Metal can opamp.
   
  Any of these amps are available in signal or dual channel units.
   
  There are special adapters for most conversions.  If you look back through this thread I have used different opamps in a few places.


----------



## thezfunk

Quote: 





robscix said:


> No, you do not use a TO-99 and then solder it to a dual DIP8 adapter.  If you're going to use TO-99 make sure you know the difference between units that are dual and single channel.  The OPA2111AM I mentioned are dual channel they require a TO-99 to Dip8 adapter.
> 
> You have three different package types
> 1, SOIC8 - surface mount chips
> ...


 

 I don't believe I suggested as much.  Unless I screwed up my links I said:
   
  Dual channel TO-99 -> DIP8 adapter
  Single channel TO-99 ->DIP8 adapter -> Dual DIP8 adapter (unless you can find a dual TO-99 to single DIP8 adapter).


----------



## Juiced

I have to add that my Head-Direct RE0 with Bravura AMP+AD797BR sound amazing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  RE0 known for their precise and detailed sound but the less known for there bass , bravura realy changes it. the bass is realy strong and clear the sound is realy more deatiled and surprising , the card AMP with the AD797BR can realy driven those IME's and take out their full potential.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





thezfunk said:


> I don't believe I suggested as much.  Unless I screwed up my links I said:
> 
> Dual channel TO-99 -> DIP8 adapter
> Single channel TO-99 ->DIP8 adapter -> Dual DIP8 adapter (unless you can find a dual TO-99 to single DIP8 adapter).


 

 Combining two adapters would not be such a good idea.  The better idea would be to find the proper adapter for the job.


----------



## pez

So is the built-in amp powerful enough to push some of the higher-end headphones?  It's got a built in HP Amp and DAC, but how good is it really?  Would you need a headphone amp still with this?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





pez said:


> So is the built-in amp powerful enough to push some of the higher-end headphones?  It's got a built in HP Amp and DAC, but how good is it really?  Would you need a headphone amp still with this?


 

 Dpends on the cans...  Electrically the amp can drive many different kinds.  Sounds pretty good based on my personal tests.  You can always use the line outputs to drive an external amplifier if that is more to your liking.


----------



## Cya|\|

Is it possible to connect a pair of cheap active monitors to the headphone output, bypassing the headphone amp? Because i want to use the front speaker connector to connect a pair of good speakers.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





cya|\| said:


> Is it possible to connect a pair of cheap active monitors to the headphone output, bypassing the headphone amp? Because i want to use the front speaker connector to connect a pair of good speakers.


 


 You cannot bypss the headphone amplifer but you can lower the gain. In vista, Win7 they are seen as two totaly different outputs.You can actually play different music on each output -fronts, headphone out.


----------



## Cya|\|

Ok, and do you think that i could connect fine a pair of cheap monitors. I specify cheap as i'm not really interested in high sound quality from them. They're just a secondary system.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Well I wouldn't advise connecting an amplifer output to another amplifer....but it can be done.  Just watch the output levels from the Bravura or you may get noise and distortion.


----------



## [L]es

can i get the opamp from the headphone out and put it in the socket for the front speakers ?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, you can swap out the opamps.  Make sure you get the orientation right or you will fry the chip.


----------



## [L]es

thanks.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





[l]es said:


> thanks.


 


 No problem.


----------



## pez

Quote: 





robscix said:


> Dpends on the cans...  Electrically the amp can drive many different kinds.  Sounds pretty good based on my personal tests.  You can always use the line outputs to drive an external amplifier if that is more to your liking.


 

 What's the best headphones that you think the built-in amp could push?  I'm deciding whether or not I want to get an amp (like the D2+), an older Onkyo receiver, or this card.  What do you think would be the best?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





pez said:


> What's the best headphones that you think the built-in amp could push?  I'm deciding whether or not I want to get an amp (like the D2+), an older Onkyo receiver, or this card.  What do you think would be the best?


 


 The Bravura's onboard amp is powerful it can puch pretty much whatever you have from an electrical point of view BUT, if you are using premium grade cans you may want to go with a equally high end amplifier.


----------



## pez

Well I mean, do you think on it's own it could sufficiently push something like a Senn. 600 or 650?  I'm just trying to figure out if it's better to get this card, or just an Amp/DAC to go with my X-Fi XtremeMusic.


----------



## sleepymaam

Just built a new computer last week after the motherboard of my old HP laptop fried itself for no reason.
  Gosh, this Bravura is very very loud! Lucky that I didn't listen to the post-driver install default volume @66
   
  Plugged my UM3X in and what can I say? WoW
  I have always known mine are very sensitive monitors and always pick up the background hissing,
  but I couldn't hear a thing.
   
  The current volume is 2 on my headphone out and I have to further reduce the volume on all my applications.
   
  Love this card and will start looking at OPAMP mods in the near future.
  I know very little about OPAMPS,
  can anyone be my lighthose and show me the path and get my headstart?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





pez said:


> Well I mean, do you think on it's own it could sufficiently push something like a Senn. 600 or 650?  I'm just trying to figure out if it's better to get this card, or just an Amp/DAC to go with my X-Fi XtremeMusic.


 


 Yes.  The card can drive most cans.  I would say it depends on what you have to spend.  You can go with this card or others or go with the external gear or both.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





sleepymaam said:


> Just built a new computer last week after the motherboard of my old HP laptop fried itself for no reason.
> Gosh, this Bravura is very very loud! Lucky that I didn't listen to the post-driver install default volume @66
> 
> Plugged my UM3X in and what can I say? WoW
> ...


 


 Read back a few pages where we talk about some good opamp upgrades.


----------



## [L]es

i just got a xonar essence stx (couldn't wait another day for the auzen) and am finally getting my bravura tomorrow.. will the bravura sound better for 2 channel ?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Those two cards sound very different as you will notice when you test both out.


----------



## [L]es

wow thanks robscix ! very exciting ! cirrus logic vs. burr brown. what kind of nichicon caps are on the bravura ?


----------



## FeiJai

Quote: 





robscix said:


> Those two cards sound very different as you will notice when you test both out.


 
   
  How do those two cards compare? Based on music, movies, gaming and the headphone amp, which would you recommend? I intend to pick up either of the two next week with my new computer system and seeing as how you auditioned both cards I would like to know what you think.


----------



## sleepymaam

Thanks Robscix
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Quote: 





robscix said:


> Read back a few pages where we talk about some good opamp upgrades.


 

 As I mentioned in my original post, I am really really new in OPAMPs
  I heard there are different sockets of even the same OPAMP;
  also different state (not sure if this is the right word) of the same OPAMP; and
  even the insert direction has to be right or the card will be fried ?
   
  Is that right?
  anyway, thank you for showing me the path


----------



## leeperry

sleepymaam said:


> I am really really new in OPAMPs


 
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/476634/give-me-a-crash-course-in-opamps#post_6463051


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





sleepymaam said:


> Thanks Robscix
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Yes, you have to make sure the orientation is correct.  Most opamps will come in different packages, such as DIP8, SOIC8 and TO-99.  What you are looking for to use on this card is a dual channel DIP8.  You can use some of the others but you need adapters, which can make them more difficult for the beginner.  If you have any questions let me know, I will help you out if I can.


----------



## [L]es

this is fun. i got the bravura this morning then didn't really fiddle with it till this afternoon. changed in the headphone opamp for the front channel, set mode 1 to setting 4 and it sounds good ! i'll burn it in for a while and see how it compares to the stx.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





[l]es said:


> this is fun. i got the bravura this morning then didn't really fiddle with it till this afternoon. changed in the headphone opamp for the front channel, set mode 1 to setting 4 and it sounds good ! i'll burn it in for a while and see how it compares to the stx.


 

 Yes, I would suggest you let any audio component "settle".
  Why did you change the front opamp with the can amp, are you driving an external amp using the front line output?


----------



## [L]es

yes ROBSCIX. i have the front line out hooked up to a rotel ra04.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Sure, that is what I thought.  Enjoy your testing.


----------



## [L]es

i will, thanks !


----------



## Copyright

Not sure if anyone else has run into this but mine is apparently taking a dump on me.  I read a few other users on newegg having problems with thier's dieing after a month.  I get loud bass and popping randomly.  It will go on and on sometimes.  Was crazy on my sub.  Tried new drivers, different slots and stock opamps back in.  Also found it does it as soon as I power on my system before it ever hits the OS.  Guess I need to look into something else.  I have heard Auzentech customer service blows so I will keep yall posted on how this works out.  Will give them a chance to fix the issue of course.  Until then what would be a step up over this card?  I am ready for something new!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





copyright said:


> Not sure if anyone else has run into this but mine is apparently taking a dump on me.  I read a few other users on newegg having problems with thier's dieing after a month.  I get loud bass and popping randomly.  It will go on and on sometimes.  Was crazy on my sub.  Tried new drivers, different slots and stock opamps back in.  Also found it does it as soon as I power on my system before it ever hits the OS.  Guess I need to look into something else.  I have heard Auzentech customer service blows so I will keep yall posted on how this works out.  Will give them a chance to fix the issue of course.  Until then what would be a step up over this card?  I am ready for something new!


 
  That is no good,  This issue just popped up?


----------



## Copyright

Yeah, was fine for about a month or so.  Not sure what else to try.  Tried moving the ground jumper just in case that was the problem.  Sometimes I can get a whole day without the issue.  I left my speakers on at night and woke up to a subwoofer going off like crazy.  Had to power off the sub etc.  It creates the noise through ALL outputs.  My speakers, Headphones, and sub were all going crazy.  This makes me want to go back to an external solution.  My ZERO never gave me a single problem.  Been looking at the NuForce Icon HDP which would drive my 2.1 and headphones great I think.  Just sucks its 449$.  I know this card will get shipped to auzentech and they wont have a problem and I will get it back and still have issues.  Like I said.. sometimes it does it... sometimes it doesn't.  Just random as hell.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Just tell them you want a replacment.


----------



## Copyright

Quote: 





robscix said:


> Just tell them you want a replacment.


 

 I will give it a shot.  Would I be better off calling them?  I am not sure if they have a contact number or not.  I assume I need to register the card to get the warranty?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Possibly, not sure.  You should still have warranty for sure.


----------



## Copyright

Quote: 





robscix said:


> Possibly, not sure.  You should still have warranty for sure.


 

 Ok, ticket created and I will keep you guys posted.  If they come through with good customer support they will have a customer for life.


----------



## [L]es

i sure hope that's a random problem !
   
  btw, why no thx console for bravura ?


----------



## ROBSCIX

The Bravura is not a hardware card.  The DSP is all done through software...  SO the THX panel that is floating around out there will not work on this card.


----------



## [L]es

great ! now what am i gonna do for setting speakers to large, distance, etc..
   
  i get a whining sound after playing music in foobar for a while (ds, any sampling rate, bit depth). it's either that or get horrible crackling with wasapi (usually happens after leaving it on pause for quite a while).


----------



## [L]es

think it was a grounding issue. moving the jumper to chassis ground seems to have improved the bass and i'll find out in a few hours if it's really a grounding issue.


----------



## [L]es

i still have the problem. after 3/4s into most cds there's a high pitched whine that disappears after stopping and resuming playback.. :/.


----------



## theabsurdist




----------



## Copyright

Well 2 days into my request with Auzentech I still have not received a single word from them or even an email saying a ticket has been submitted.  Really not looking good.  This is really make me want to go back to an external DAC/head amp


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





copyright said:


> Well 2 days into my request with Auzentech I still have not received a single word from them or even an email saying a ticket has been submitted.  Really not looking good.  This is really make me want to go back to an external DAC/head amp


 

 You can have similar issue with external gear also...


----------



## genclaymore

some times the emails go into there spam/junk box and they dont notice it. til they see it, maybe this the case with you. I know it was for me one time. Just give them a car.


----------



## ROBSCIX

..I think he means CALL.


----------



## Copyright

Quote: 





robscix said:


> ..I think he means CALL.


 

 Just received an email today from them.  Filling out the RMA Request form and returning to them.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Are you getting a refund or a replacment?


----------



## Copyright

Quote: 





robscix said:


> Are you getting a refund or a replacment?


 

 I asked for a replacement.  I love the card when it works but I have found two others with defective cards.  Also my left channel just stopped working, my headphones no longer work, and I barely get a little bit of sound out of the right desktop speaker when at full volume.  This thing is dieing fast.
   
   
  FYI I found a Forte Locally I may pickup and just request a refund.  Your thoughts ROBSCIX?  I am mostly a gamer and I want a dependable card.


----------



## Copyright

I picked up the Forte.. is there no way to switch between Speaker and headphone output?  It just outputs to all at the same time?  It's not even muting my speakers when I plug in the headphones.  Also cant seem to get my subwoofer to turn on.  Two things very important that the Bravura could do with no problem!
   
  EDIT:  Fixed subwoofer output.  Just hate the fact the headphones dont mute when using speakers.  dumb.  Bravura was setup so much better for this.  I do notice I am not getting the annoying popping I would sometimes get just move the volume slider bar.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Been awhile since I used that card.  Thre should be away to switch between the two but I cannot remember where the setting is.  When you switch between each, they don't mute?
   
  The Forte is a very solid card.


----------



## Copyright

Quote: 





robscix said:


> Been awhile since I used that card.  Thre should be away to switch between the two but I cannot remember where the setting is.  When you switch between each, they don't mute?
> 
> The Forte is a very solid card.


 

 Nope, I read this is an issue with the Forte.  The speakers will mute if headphones are plugged into front audio out only.  But what I don't like is I cant turn off the headphones I have to unplug them.  Bravura really had a sweet setup this way.  I can switch to headphone out in the control panel to shut off the speakers so that's fine but I will have to use the plantronics PC Audio switch as a way to shut off the headphones.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





copyright said:


> Nope, I read this is an issue with the Forte.  The speakers will mute if headphones are plugged into front audio out only.  But what I don't like is I cant turn off the headphones I have to unplug them.  Bravura really had a sweet setup this way.  I can switch to headphone out in the control panel to shut off the speakers so that's fine but I will have to use the plantronics PC Audio switch as a way to shut off the headphones.


 

 As I said, I have not used it in awhile and was unsure.  The BRavura has a wicked setup for that type of stuff.  All three outputs are totalyl seperate, I fully tested the outputs using multiple streams.  I had a different track coming out of the headphone output, Speaker output and digital outputs.


----------



## Copyright

Quote: 





robscix said:


> As I said, I have not used it in awhile and was unsure.  The BRavura has a wicked setup for that type of stuff.  All three outputs are totalyl seperate, I fully tested the outputs using multiple streams.  I had a different track coming out of the headphone output, Speaker output and digital outputs.


 
  Yeah, I didn't realize how cool that actually is until it had been stripped away from me lol.  I like the Forte as well.  Ill make someone on here a good deal on a Bravura when I get my replacement card.


----------



## ROBSCIX

It is very different in comparison as it is actually a different channel.  Many sound cards just switch between speaker out and headphones out but it is the came channel.  The Forte is a great card also just doesn't have that feature though.


----------



## [L]es

comparing the bravura with my stx.. i kinda prefer the bravura's more dynamic presentation. also clearer, more open sound.


----------



## [L]es

maybe just a few days of burn in on the opamp and caps. i haven't really used the bravura over the stx. i'm using mode 1 since it's just 2 channel. setup is a rotel ra04 - monitor audio rx2.


----------



## Hellvetia

Hey
 I got my Bravura today installed all drivers and am running a pair of headphones and 2.0 boxes (both over 3,5mm plug) with it quite flawless. However i got a Problem with the driver. Any driversettings (Crystalizer, CMSS-3D, Equalizer or EAX) don't seem to have any impact on the sound. I even tested extreme Equalizersettings without realising any difference in sound. I can alter neither the Headphonesound nor the sound of my boxes.
  Is there some way to apply the driversettings/whatever which i can't find? (I'm using Win 7 64bit)


----------



## Copyright

Quote: 





hellvetia said:


> Hey
> I got my Bravura today installed all drivers and am running a pair of headphones and 2.0 boxes (both over 3,5mm plug) with it quite flawless. However i got a Problem with the driver. Any driversettings (Crystalizer, CMSS-3D, Equalizer or EAX) don't seem to have any impact on the sound. I even tested extreme Equalizersettings without realising any difference in sound. I can alter neither the Headphonesound nor the sound of my boxes.
> Is there some way to apply the driversettings/whatever which i can't find? (I'm using Win 7 64bit)


 
   
  I am using win7 64bit also and had to do nothing to get that to work.  Are you making changes in the Volume Panel?


----------



## theabsurdist




----------



## tlbig10

Quote: 





copyright said:


> I am using win7 64bit also and had to do nothing to get that to work.  Are you making changes in the Volume Panel?


 
  Copyright,
   
  You're one of the few people I've seen that have used both cards.  I just purchased the Bravura and it will be arriving tomorrow, but my friend has a Forte and he is saying I'm making a big mistake.  I use my computer for gaming probably 90% of the time, and I'd love your thoughts on how the two stack up as far as positional audio on stereo headphones.  This is my main dilemma.  Thanks!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





tlbig10 said:


> Copyright,
> 
> You're one of the few people I've seen that have used both cards.  I just purchased the Bravura and it will be arriving tomorrow, but my friend has a Forte and he is saying I'm making a big mistake.  I use my computer for gaming probably 90% of the time, and I'd love your thoughts on how the two stack up as far as positional audio on stereo headphones.  This is my main dilemma.  Thanks!


 

 I have both cards also.  They have the exact same support for EAX 1,2,3,4 and CMSS3D etc...the Bravura doesn't have EAX 5.0.  I tested both cards head to head and the Bravura is a very fast card.
  Try it out and if you don't get exactly what you want, take it back and get the Forte 7.1
   
  The Bravura has better option for tuning the sound and just getting better sound across the board.  The Forte, has the X-FI 2 Processor, which the Bravura does not.
  If you are a die hard gamer though, the Forte may be the best option.
  Both card have CMSS-3D so they will sound identical from that perspective...


----------



## tlbig10

Quote: 





robscix said:


> I have both cards also.  They have the exact same support for EAX 1,2,3,4 and CMSS3D etc...the Bravura doesn't have EAX 5.0.  I tested both cards head to head and the Bravura is a very fast card.
> Try it out and if you don't get exactly what you want, take it back and get the Forte 7.1
> 
> The Bravura has better option for tuning the sound and just getting better sound across the board.  The Forte, has the X-FI 2 Processor, which the Bravura does not.
> ...


 
  Thanks.  I know you've covered this before in the thread (I've read through it a few times), and I gathered the difference between software CMSS3D and hardware is next to nothing.  No real performance gains either between the two cards based on your review.  :deep breath: Nothing worse than feeling like you just bought the wrong thing.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





tlbig10 said:


> Thanks.  I know you've covered this before in the thread (I've read through it a few times), and I gathered the difference between software CMSS3D and hardware is next to nothing.  No real performance gains either between the two cards based on your review.  :deep breath: Nothing worse than feeling like you just bought the wrong thing.


 

 Well, when you get it home put it through it paces and if it is not EXACTLY what you want take it back and go for the Forte.  They are both great cards and have features the other one doesn't.


----------



## [L]es

hey when do the dts connect drivers come out ?


----------



## ROBSCIX

From the site:
_X-Fi Bravura DTS Connect Driver Coming in Q2 with Windows 7, Vista, and XP Support_
   
  Delays sometimes happen though, just keep checking with the site.  I fidn it interesting they are adding support for XP for this card with DTS-C.


----------



## [L]es

ok. decided to give up the opamp roll thing and just use my receiver's dac and play with the digital out.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Windows VIst etc.. sees the digital out surround outs and headphone outputs as all being different.  You can send different signals to each output or use your hepadheons for gaming, surround for movies and your digital out for music.


----------



## genclaymore

http://soundprime.com/bbs/zboard.php?id=Auzen_Driver&no=26  You can get the  DTS connect drivers here. they was released on auzentech partner site like some days ago. they have other fixes in the drivers as well. You might have to use google chromes translator to change the page from korean to english so you can read it and click the driver link.


----------



## [L]es

genclaymore, thanks ! downloading..


----------



## Goonish

Hi all, I'm new to Head-Fi. Long time reader, first time poster.
   
  Looking purely at the headphone portion of the circuitry, which card should I get? The Bravura or the Forte? I mainly listen to music and watch movies. I use headphones 95% of the time.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## ROBSCIX

I would say the Bravura has the better headphone output.


----------



## Ambitious

Hi

 I have Bravura and Audio Technica ATH-AD700

 in I/O Mode Control: Mode 1. I Undecided between SET 1 and SET 4

 I don't know my headphone's  is Professional Headphone or Hi-Fi Headphone

 you can see Headphone Mode Chart in image below

 thank you all


----------



## genclaymore

I would say just leave it on Set 1, I use that my self for my headphones.


----------



## Ambitious

Quote: 





genclaymore said:


> I would say just leave it on Set 1, I use that my self for my headphones.


 

 Thank you genclaymore.


----------



## Copyright

Looks like newegg is seeing more and more bad posts on this card with failures like mine.  I still have not received my replacement card.  They signed for the package on 6-14-10 and have not said a word to me.  I have written then two times after the delivery and no response.  I hope you guys have better luck with this card because the company is awful to deal with.


----------



## Copyright

Does the front audio out also feed an amplified output to the front of the case for the headphones or do you have to plug it into the back in order to get amplified output?


----------



## Denon2010

I am poor. And I need to make a decision between this Bravura, the Xonar DX and Xonar DS
   
  I use a sennheiser HD 555
   
  Now keeping in mind I am poor and I need to save up for a new CPU I need you guys to make a decision for me/
   
   
  Is the other cards really worth it over the Xonar DS? I am no audiophile I just like good clean powerful music.


----------



## ROBSCIX

This is a great sounding card and has many options to improve the sound down the road.  It also has much better gaming support them other cards...


----------



## Denon2010

Hey look its ROBSCIX from guru 3d
   
  Awesome just the man I was looking for.
   
  Ok I had the Xonar DX before and it was incredible. But sold it cause I needed money to buy food.
   
  Now that I have some money again I am thinking of buying either the xonar DS or the DX or this Bravura
   
  Again I am no audiophile. And I won't change opamps etc
   
  I just wanna know if this card is really worth it over the xonar DX for my senn HD555
   
  I mean my HD555 plays so loud on the dx that I have to keep the volume at half
   
  so would you say that by buying this Bravura, my sound experience will be that great off a difference as to justify the $50 price difference?


----------



## ROBSCIX

If you're into heavy gaming etc, I would go with the Bravura.


----------



## Denon2010

Well I do play games and watch movies.
   
  But its not really heavy gaming per say.
   
  What would the benefit be? a couple FPS more? or better environment sound etc?
   
   
  Its for both gaming and music to be honest.
   
  But won't the xonar DX also be great for music? I mean how much could the difference possibly?
   
  But hey if that onboard Headphone AMP on the Bravura is gonna make a noticable difference on my HD555 then by all means I will invest the extra.
   
*I guess I am mostly interested in the headphone AMP on the Bravura compared to the Xonar DX*
   
*How would you compare both? Is the AMP on the xonar even worth anything? I know with my denon D2000 the xonar dx was absolutely worthless I had to buy a Fiio E5 AMp for it but with the HD555 it ran it pretty well I think it was cause of the low sensitivity on the D2000*


----------



## Dalamar

I've got a horribly outdated GPU (8800GT), and I've never had any issue with audio-related FPS loss, so ignore that. I play stuffs like Crysis on highest 1600x1200 (but shaders reduced).
   
  Audio without hardware acceleration was problematic waaay back in the day, but on modern machines it's not.


----------



## Denon2010

Yeah I know its not for gaming really
   
  Its for music and movies also.
   
  I am just concerned about the headphone AMP in the xonar vs the Bravura
   
  But like ROB said the HD 555 is only 50 ohms and don't require any AMP
   
  I know some people say well it does and it sounds better
   
  But if their meaning of better is perfect golden ears and that kinda crap well it isn't worth it for me to be honest.
   
  But if it is a big difference well then it may be something to consider
   
  I mean why buy AMP when you can simply buy low impedence head phones>?


----------



## genclaymore

I would say go for it, think it like this, when you need to power future headphones, you will already have it. instead of go shopping for a standalone or it later on.


----------



## wein07

Im looking to get a 2nd soundcard for my LAN computer. And i already own a Forte. It's great but i had to do the taping mod all around the bracket of the card to ground it to prevent hiss in the headphone output. Once fixed, everything is good tho. Does the Braruva have the same grounding issue as the forte? I mean the Forte is really nice, but the grounding issue is just inexcusable for a card of its price range.


----------



## hohesc123

Hi!
   
  Just wanted to ask if you guys could help me out: I wonder if the Bravura is capable of the following:
   
  5.1 Speakers are plugged in - Speaker Settings set to 5.1 in the Audio Console. Music is playing.
   
  => Headphones are being plugged in in the headphone output (I mean the one on the I/O-panel of the card, not some sort of front panel headphone jack) => does the software/card detect this and does it mute the 5.1 speakers and switch the speaker settings to "headphones" automatically?
   
  Regards


----------



## Needles

Quote: 





wein07 said:


> I mean the Forte is really nice, but the grounding issue is just inexcusable for a card of its price range.


 

 True that. I have a HTHD 7.1 and it hisses like crazy. Ridiculous. Auzentech _finally _steps up with the ground switch on the Bravura, too late for the rest of us. It would be nice to see a hardware based EAX 5.0 Forte re-design with the switch included.


----------



## genclaymore

Yea even tho i never had to switch it on the bravura it was good it had it, Now if they do make a new forte. They should atleast make the headphone amp settings setable in its software instead of a jumper, or mode buttons on the bravura.


----------



## hohesc123

Quote: 





hohesc123 said:


> Hi!
> 
> Just wanted to ask if you guys could help me out: I wonder if the Bravura is capable of the following:
> 
> ...


 

 anybody?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





hohesc123 said:


> Hi!
> 
> Just wanted to ask if you guys could help me out: I wonder if the Bravura is capable of the following:
> 
> ...


 

 It should mute the speakers..IIRC.  With this card the speaker output and headphones output are seen as two totally different outputs.  So, for example you could have one song playing through your speakers and other playing through your headphones.


----------



## hohesc123

Thanks for the reply!
   
  Ah OK, didn't know that, sounds interesting.
  So I guess you can choose the primary output in the audio console?
   
  For example: if I'm watching a movie with 5.1 sound, using my speakers first (speaker config set to 5.1 in the audio console), then plug the headphones in, does he play the sound via the headphones and most importantly, does he downmix the output to stereo on the headphone output automatically?
   
  And can you assign a certain output to a certain app? For example, assigning WinAMP to the headphone output only?
   
  Or does the driver create 2 devices? Like "Speakers - Auzen X-Fi Bravura" and "Headphones - Auzen X-Fi Bravura"?


----------



## genclaymore

Yea you  can pick which device you want audio to come out in music players, Some games also have the option while most dont. Other wise for programs that dont give you the option, you will have to make what you wanna use primary in the control system.


----------



## hohesc123

Thx!
   
  But when I plug in the headphones, does he automatically switch to the headphone output? Or do I have to do this manually?


----------



## genclaymore

You have to do it manaully if you wanna make it primary.


----------



## hohesc123

Hi!
   
  I finally got my Bravura yesterday, so I wanted to share my impressions with you.
   
  First of all, installing the card went flawlessly, so no issues there. I used the latest official driver.
   
  Afterwards, I hooked up my Gigaworks S750 speakers and my Sennheiser HD-25-II headphones. The sound from the headphones was fine, but I noticed crackling, disturbing noises when using speakers, created when new audio samples were played, for example when starting or stopping an audio track in WinAMP. I googled a little and found a hint saying that linking the SPDIF-IN to the speaker-out in the audio mixer would solve the issue. So I tried this and indeed, the disturbing noise was gone, so frist issue solved.
   
  Compared with my Prelude, the sound from the anolog speaker out got a little worse, it lacks a bit of depth/dynamics compared to the Prelude. The drawback is really minimal, so no issue there.
   
  The headphone-out really sounds very nice, I have an OPA627 too so I will give it a try.
   
  So far, I'm really happy with the card, the only issue remaining is the missing THX-Console.
  As I use the analog out with my Gigaworks S750 (in 5.1 config), I'd really like to setup up / calibrate the speakers properly. The THX-Console worked really fine with the Prelude, but I can't get it running with the Bravura.
   
  Did someone give it a try and got it running? In case the THXconsole is a lost case with the Bravura, can someone please suggest some alternative software that fulfills the purpose of the THXconsole?
   
  Oh, and one last question. When applying CMSS-3D, the effect is applied to both speakers and headphones (like shown in the console - applied to headphones/speakers) ... Is there a way to apply the CMSS-3D effect to the speakers ONLY?
   
  Greetz


----------



## ROBSCIX

You cannot use the THX panel on the Bravura.  The version you have is meant for hardware DSP cards such as the Prelude, Forte, HTHD..etc.  The Bravura uses a software based chipset.


----------



## hohesc123

Thx for the reply.
   
  Do you know any alternative software that fulfills the purpose of the THX panel and which I could use with the Bravura?


----------



## bheiser

Quote: 





robscix said:


> The mode buttons are explained in the manual. They are basically there for different types of cans and microphones.


 
  Hi (new Bravura owner & Head-fi member here) ... where did you find a Bravura manual that goes into that kind of detail?  the one I downloaded from the Auzentech site is *very* brief and doesn't describe the mode buttons.  The manual I have is "BRAVURA_MANUAL_2010-02-10_Eng.pdf" from http://www.auzensupport.com/site/download/manuals.php .
   
  And, on a second note, I (just installed a few hours ago) haven't found yet how to configure the device so I can manually select between speakers & headphones.  I have my phones (Sennheiser 595) plugged into the back panel jack.  I have a pair of Klipsch promedia 2.1 speakers plugged in as speakers for now using the "green" jack.  The only way I've found to switch between them is to use the Windows audio control panel.   According to the manual Section 4.1, there should be a button on the Console Launcher (headphone section) to select which output to use.  But mine has no such control.  Furthermore the large volume control and the small headphone volume control on the front panel both control only the speakers/headphones (whichever is in use at the time).  Aren't they supposed to control the two seperately?
   
  I installed the driver v1.35 from Sept 10th.
   
  Thanks!
   
  p.s. anyway I am testing with the 'phones and they sound amazing!  I keep removing the headphones thinking somehow the speakers are playing by accident 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








.   And I keep hearing things in the music that make me think, "oh wow!"


----------



## thezfunk

Quote: 





robscix said:


> Here are someother configuraitons I have been testing on this card:
> Head amp: OPA2111AM
> Fronts: LME49710HA
> Rears: LME49710HA
> ...


 


  Need some help here.  I have been experimenting with opamps and have enjoyed the OPA2111KP for awhile in my Bravura.  I finally got around to soldering my TO-99 opamps onto adapters (Browndog).  They don't work!  I am pretty sure I put pin 1 (tab) into the right hole on the adapter.  Neither the LME49720HA nor the LME49710HA work.  Just dead air.  I thought I might have screwed up the double dip8 to single adapters but they work fine with my OPA227P's.  I will link my pictures from my Picasa album and you can take a look.  I have some macro shots.
   
http://picasaweb.google.com/thezfunk/OpampHelp?authkey=Gv1sRgCO7eqKDkq5uyFQ&feat=directlink
   
  I tried to see how ROBSCIX did his but I can't really tell from his post which I quoted above.
   
  Is the tab on the TO-99 actually pin 8?  Is that what I did wrong?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, the TAB is pin 8...
  If you used the tab as pin 1 then you rotated the pin out.  Pull them apart and solder them the right way and test them again.  They MAY work but you may have toasted them.
  With opamps or any IC, make sure you know exactly how to install them or you can burn them very easily.
  Hope that helps.


----------



## hohesc123

Quote: 





bheiser said:


> Hi (new Bravura owner & Head-fi member here) ... where did you find a Bravura manual that goes into that kind of detail?  the one I downloaded from the Auzentech site is *very* brief and doesn't describe the mode buttons.  The manual I have is "BRAVURA_MANUAL_2010-02-10_Eng.pdf" from http://www.auzensupport.com/site/download/manuals.php .
> 
> And, on a second note, I (just installed a few hours ago) haven't found yet how to configure the device so I can manually select between speakers & headphones.  I have my phones (Sennheiser 595) plugged into the back panel jack.  I have a pair of Klipsch promedia 2.1 speakers plugged in as speakers for now using the "green" jack.  The only way I've found to switch between them is to use the Windows audio control panel.   According to the manual Section 4.1, there should be a button on the Console Launcher (headphone section) to select which output to use.  But mine has no such control.  Furthermore the large volume control and the small headphone volume control on the front panel both control only the speakers/headphones (whichever is in use at the time).  Aren't they supposed to control the two seperately?
> 
> ...


 

 Hi bheiser!
   
  I use this little fine tool to switch between the headphone- and the speaker-output.
  You can define a hotkey to switch between the two outputs, it works flawlessly. It's an auto-it script which simulates actions to switch between the outputs in the windows' audio console.
   
   
  Furthermore, I got a question of my own. I got a bunch of nice headphones for testing last week, the AKG K701, Beyerdynamic DT-880 2005 and DT-990 Pro and the Sennheiser HD650. I tested all of them with my Bravura (standard OP-AMPs so far), I really like the sound, the only thing I'm missing at certain points is the bass. I tested all of the headphones with a stationary amp (an old Technics one) and I got _FAR more bass out of all of them. Not that I'm a bass-fetishist or something (in the contrary, I like neutral, well balanced sound), but I really miss a little pressure/punch in some songs, mainly the electronics genre (Prodigy, Chemical Brothers, ...).
   
  Do you have any suggestions on how to improve the bass characteristics of the Bravura's headphone output? The Bass-Boost in the Audio Panel sounds like crap and there is no Bass-Control in the Audio Panel either (as opposed to my old Prelude, which had a bass and a treble control in the right part of the Audio Panel's main page).
  Would some other OP-AMPs improve the bass-characteristics? Or what should I try to improve ths sound?
   
  Thanks for your replies!
  Greetz


----------



## thezfunk

Quote: 





robscix said:


> Yes, the TAB is pin 8...
> If you used the tab as pin 1 then you rotated the pin out.  Pull them apart and solder them the right way and test them again.  They MAY work but you may have toasted them.
> With opamps or any IC, make sure you know exactly how to install them or you can burn them very easily.
> Hope that helps.


 


  In my defense, I have never soldered up an op amp in a TO-99 package before and based on the fact that any other IC I have ever soldered has an indentation or mark denoting pin 1, I assumed that the tab on these op amps was also denoting pin 1.  Why would the standard be any different?  Why mark pin 8?  Oh well, I just nuked $100+ dollars with of op amps; expensive lesson to learn but I won't make that mistake again.


----------



## psone

hey all,
       I should hopefully be receiving my Bravura tomorrow, although i got an email about an attempted delivery today that never happened!
  so hopefully it doesn't get shipped straight back to auzentech  given that I'm in Ireland an all!
   
  anyway aside from that I'm wondering if i wanted to hook it up to a HP amp for example a Little Dot mkIII, would i be right in thinking I'd need
  to go from spdif to rca?


----------



## psone

OK so the card arrived, I'm having problems right from the start though, after installing the card win7(64) recognized it after the first reboot but not after that and now when i try to install the drivers i get this...
   
  "Setup is unable to detect a supported product on your system..."
   
  i don't have on-board sound so that's not an issue, i removed the SupremeFX X-fi that came with my Crosshair III, uninstalled the drivers and ran driver sweep on-top of that and updated the chipset too and still nothing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  any advice? anyone had similar problems? I'm really at a loss at this stage. i checked auzentech's forums and a few people have posted about similar situations but there's never any reply's.
   
  Update:
   
  Crisis averted! seems it was just kaspersky breaking my install, now i just have to figure out how to get rid of the noise coming of the headphone out


----------



## hohesc123

OK, so far, I've tried the OPA627AU, these do sound a bit better than the standard OP-AMP of the card, plus they improve the bass characteristics a little bit, IMO.
   
  What other OP-AMPs would you recommend? Maybe the OPA2111SM or even the metal can version of the 627, the OPA627SM?
   
  Btw, I plan on upgrading the headphone-out only. ^^
  
  Quote: 





hohesc123 said:


> Furthermore, I got a question of my own. I got a bunch of nice headphones for testing last week, the AKG K701, Beyerdynamic DT-880 2005 and DT-990 Pro and the Sennheiser HD650. I tested all of them with my Bravura (standard OP-AMPs so far), I really like the sound, the only thing I'm missing at certain points is the bass. I tested all of the headphones with a stationary amp (an old Technics one) and I got _FAR more bass out of all of them. Not that I'm a bass-fetishist or something (in the contrary, I like neutral, well balanced sound), but I really miss a little pressure/punch in some songs, mainly the electronics genre (Prodigy, Chemical Brothers, ...).
> 
> Do you have any suggestions on how to improve the bass characteristics of the Bravura's headphone output? The Bass-Boost in the Audio Panel sounds like crap and there is no Bass-Control in the Audio Panel either (as opposed to my old Prelude, which had a bass and a treble control in the right part of the Audio Panel's main page).
> Would some other OP-AMPs improve the bass-characteristics? Or what should I try to improve ths sound?
> ...


----------



## genclaymore

You can try OPA2107Aps which are a cheaper ver of the OPA627s, I tried them with the AKG 702s and they worked great,Tho expect for my issues with the bravura and the AKG 702s Which wasnt being driven right on the bravura headphone amp. Which went away when I move on to a STX. I had major volume issues and SQ issues related to them not being driven on the bravura headphone amp not supplying enough mWs which the STX does at the headphone ohm for the mW req of the AKGs.
   
  For your AKGs no matter which op-amps you roll your best choice is to use a standalone hp amp or a STX with them, as STX hp amp outputs enough voltage at the ohm req to supply enough mWs for the AKG 701/2.


----------



## thezfunk

Quote: 





hohesc123 said:


> OK, so far, I've tried the OPA627AU, these do sound a bit better than the standard OP-AMP of the card, plus they improve the bass characteristics a little bit, IMO.
> 
> What other OP-AMPs would you recommend? Maybe the OPA2111SM or even the metal can version of the 627, the OPA627SM?
> 
> Btw, I plan on upgrading the headphone-out only. ^^


 
   
  The OPA2111's are my favorite so far.  Since I messed up on my LME49710HA and my LME4720HA I won't have an opinion on them until they get here.  The 627 are ok.  I'll put one on the sub but I prefer the 2111's on the front and headphones.


----------



## hohesc123

Thanks for the replies!
   
  @thezfunk: May I ask which headphones you use?
   
  I'll  try to get a standalone headphone amp in the next few days (max 200€ / $280). Preferably one with an integrated DAC (USB or SPDIF input). Do you have any suggestions on which amps I should try?
  I searched the forums yesterday and found that the Maverick D1 is widely used. Any opinions on this one?


----------



## ROBSCIX

I have had great result with OPA2111AM modules I buitl awhile back.  They are metal can units soldered to an DIP8 adapter board, the produce a very datailed sound but don't suck all the life out of the signal.


----------



## thezfunk

Quote: 





hohesc123 said:


> Thanks for the replies!
> 
> @thezfunk: May I ask which headphones you use?
> 
> ...


 

 I use the Equation RP-21's.  It was a good fit based on my varied headphone use. (music, games, LAN parties, movies).
   
  My new OP AMP's to replace those I fried have arrived so when my new Brown Dog order arrives I will soldier those up, correctly this time.


----------



## ulsar

Hello!
   
  I bought a Bravura about a month ago and I use it with my Sennheiser HD 435. Now I'm considering upgrading my phones and the Beyerdynamic DT770 caught my eye.
   
  However I have some doubts about which versions (32, 250 and 600 ohms) perform properly without an additional amp. Also I'm not interested in getting new OP AMPs (by now).
   
  Thanks


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## thezfunk

I just received and installed Linear Technology's LT1364 op amp.  I have installed them on the headphone and front channels.  I like their transparency.  They seem to bring bass more forward than other op amps I have tried.  More so than the OPA227.  I am trying to decide if I like that or not.


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## Monge

Guys,
  There are two sets of drivers for Bravura. With DTS and Without DTS but Windows 7 Certified.
  I only use 2.1 system. Which should I use?


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## psone

the one without will do fine, dts is for digital surround.


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## vid

I got the Bravura yesterday; unused; a replacement for onboard ALC888 and a trusty SB Live! Value.
   
  First off, the installation was anything but easy -- because of the way my Asrock A780GXE motherboard is designed. It's got an integrated video chip, and the chip's heatsink is sat right behind the PCI-E 1x slot; there's about one inch between the slot and the heatsink. The Bravura's butt extends a couple of inches from the slot, so there was absolutely no way of having both the heatsink and the sound card in at the same time. Prying the heatsink off the motherboard took about half an hour, it had those white plastic screw replacing things that snap into place when you push them into the screw hole. I had no idea how to get them out properly, but did manage to get it done eventually. After this, the Bravura went in. The downside is that if the BIOS ever defaults to the integrated video chip, like if I do a BIOS reset, the motherboard will probably fry since the chip has no cooling now.
   
  Apart from my motherboard acting up, there were a few things that seemed off about the Bravura, physically. It's a bit too tall for the PCI-E slot; the front panel where you screw the card into the case was hovering about a millimeter above the grill of the case, so the whole card was a bit wobbly and I didn't dare screw it in fully in fear of breaking something. This may just be a bad 1x slot on my motherboard, though; I didn't see any other obstructions. The second thing I noticed was that some of the opamps seemed to have been put in a bit carelessly, as two of them were clearly listing to one side. I tried carefully to push them properly into their sockets, but they wouldn't go so I left them as they were. I'm not sure if this affects the sound, I only ever use headphones and the opamp for that was put in right.
   
  No problem installing the Bravura drivers on 32-bit XP, no software troubles at all.
   
  As far as sound goes, well....... it's not bad. My first and main impression is that the soundstage is wider than what onboard or the Live could give. It has more clarity; but also feels a bit thin, a bit harsh -- _not warm_, you could say. Granted, my phones aren't top-shelf science: AKG 271S, AKG 314P earbuds and Senn MX460 earbuds, but with these three the Bravura did feel a bit cold (I'm using Mode 3 with all the phones). Maybe it will settle, and I'll probably try some different opamps along the road anyways. In any case, the card sounds very clean and has mad amounts of volume to give.
   
  But something that's really embarrassing, I think, for a card in this price range is that as soon as I load up a Youtube video and go fullscreen, the sound starts to crackle. It may or may not be a grounding issue; running Prime95 to stress the CPU's cores to 100 % doesn't affect the sound at all. I haven't gotten around to switching the grounding pin on the card yet, but I'll do that a bit later and see if it fixes things. (Another thing that causes crackling is just scrolling this Head-Fi page up an down really fast. I occasionally get a pop when switching tracks in foobar, too.)
   
  Not a bad card overall, the sound is very crisp (apart from what I said above) and I'm sure there's a way to get it to sound a bit warmer with a new opamp; but it does come off a bit cheap with its bent chips and interference problems. Also, I don't think the manual or their website said anything about how the insulator thing should be installed or what it does, which is a bit unfortunate, but then again I may just have missed it.


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## vid

Well, (and sorry to spam the thread,) I looked into the interference problem a little bit more. Grounding switch did nothing, nor did clearing out cables around the sound card, and I already had the video card in a more distant PCI-E slot to begin with. The problem occurs only in Youtube videos when fullscreen (but not in a window), when opening/scrolling websites and in certain video cutscenes in games. Games are otherwise not affected and movies work fine.
   
  However, the Youtube problem went away when I _enabled _hardware acceleration for Flash. Sooo... the crackling might have something to do with software-based drawing onto the screen when a large portion of the screen is affected. Could just be an unsuitable motherboard, I guess.
   
  I'd also like to note that the AKG K 314 P earbuds are awesome, much clearer and "quicker" than the Senn MX460 that I have. The 314P have always been my favorite buds in the sub-20 € category, but a month ago their price went from 20 to five euros here in Finland, it's absolutely ridiculous. I advise anyone who can spot them for that price to give them a spin, I'm pretty sure AKG or someone affiliated is getting rid of stock.


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## vid

Hello all,
   
  Did some more testing with my Bravura.
   
  The web browsing noise seems to be a Google Chrome issue since Opera and K-Meleon (Mozilla-based) come out clean. Also, if I reload a page in Chrome and wait, the sound will crackle, but if I press reload and switch to another tab, the sound is fine even though the page is reloading in the background. This does suggest that Chrome's 2D rendering engine is doing something different compared to Opera and Mozilla, and also that the Bravura noise thing has something to do with drawing things onto the screen when not in hardware-accelerated mode.
   
  I was halfway into filling a ticket for Auzentech but decided not to bother with it; I can always use Opera when I need pristine audio during web surfing. Of note, though, is that my system is AMD-based, from the motherboard down to the video card, and Auzentech seems to only recognize the cracking problem in NVIDIA systems.
   
  As for my impressions about the Bravura after I've had some time with it, it's ok. For comfort reasons I mostly use earbuds for my sound needs, so there's not a big difference between the Brav and the onboard ALC888. I recently compared them against each other again, and the Bravura does sound a bit clearer + its initial harshness is pretty much gone. It's definitely an improvement over onboard, but for earbuds I'm guessing a cheaper Xonar might have given more value.
   
  The Bravura _really _makes me wish I hadn't sold my AKG 501s, but what can you do.


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## emgee65

Greetings PSONE.
  How did you find out that Kaspersky was the problem?
  I'm having this same problem when installing the bravura 2010 driver but have no idea as to the cause.
  The older driver installs fine.
  Also.....the PCI audio 3d configurator loads up ok but any changes I make in the "effects" tab dont make any difference whatsoever
  to the sound. 
  Any help on this issue would be greatly appreciated....Thanks.


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## thezfunk

I am having a new issue with my Bravura.  It started a few weeks ago just after the new driver update came out but I had not upgraded yet.  I noticed that periodically the sound would go all tinny and hollow and I would get static from my rear speakers.  This happens simultaneously on all channels, including the headphone and mic/line-in.  Sometimes it corrects itself after a few seconds but most of the time to get it to end I have to restart the application that was outputting sound.
   
  This happens more frequently the longer the computer has been on.  I then tried upgrading to the newest drivers and that didn't help at all.  I have a ticket in with Auzentech but it's been over a week and I have gotten no response.


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## thezfunk

Quote: 





thezfunk said:


> I am having a new issue with my Bravura.  It started a few weeks ago just after the new driver update came out but I had not upgraded yet.  I noticed that periodically the sound would go all tinny and hollow and I would get static from my rear speakers.  This happens simultaneously on all channels, including the headphone and mic/line-in.  Sometimes it corrects itself after a few seconds but most of the time to get it to end I have to restart the application that was outputting sound.
> 
> This happens more frequently the longer the computer has been on.  I then tried upgrading to the newest drivers and that didn't help at all.  I have a ticket in with Auzentech but it's been over a week and I have gotten no response.


 
   
  I think I have figured it out.  Without too much involved explanation it has to do with the new 260+ Nvidia drivers and running BOINC with a GPU work unit.  I am not sure who to complain to.  Nvidia?  Auzentech?  Einstein@home?  I know one thing...nobody at Auzentech replied to my ticket and it has been over a month.


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## reiserFS

Anyone who has a Audio-Gd HDAM around should put it onto the the Bravura. Believe me, this thing eats every OPA and creates a entirely different sound signature.


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## Monge

I want to share a resolved  problem:
  I have 4 Speakers that needed Stereo sound:  2 For the PC + 1 sub and 2 For the TV
   1 sound  input having to send to 2 Sound output
  By Using  Virtual Audio Cable It created a virtual sound card, and the configuration on that virtual is to send the audio to Line-out and headphone output of the Bravura.
   
  Worked like a charm.


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## helltormentor

Can you please tell me what exactly difference is between Forte7.1 and Bravura7.1.
  I have read all your answers to this question but I am still a little confused.
  You say output sound quality(Stock) is very similar in both cards but you don't say they are identical. So, could you shed some
  light on those differences. I am a student so, I cannot afford to play with replaceable opamps. I'd like to know which one takes the lead in output
  sound quality(stock).
  I thought the only difference between Bravura and Forte in gaming was that Bravura is a software based card and Forte is a hardware based card. But you had talked about another factor
  in your review which seems scary to me(Maximum buffer is limited to 63). Is this maximum buffer another thing that I have to be worried about beside having a powerful CPU.
  I mean I have a decent CPU(Sandy Bridge 2400). Do you think that Bravura is able to use the power of this CPU to handle games or this maximum buffer is another limitation which might
  disrupt gaming.
  Please do not forget to clarify differences between Bravura and Forte output sound quality(Stock). I have already read all your general answers to this question.
  By the way thanks for your good review on this product.


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## jman1503

Thanks guys.


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## Monge

I am having some problems using an active subwoofer with bravura. Using the centre/LFE output and defining the crossover at any range (25-150hz) I keep receiving a lot of voice sounds and some distortion, but only with voices.
   
   
  I won’t ruin games but is very bad for music and movies. Anyone had this issue?


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## Monge

Quote: 





monge said:


> I am having some problems using an active subwoofer with bravura. Using the centre/LFE output and defining the crossover at any range (25-150hz) I keep receiving a lot of voice sounds and some distortion, but only with voices.
> 
> 
> I won’t ruin games but is very bad for music and movies. Anyone had this issue?


   
   
  I've found a possible solution for now. The Active sub has crossover with Left and Right plug and also LFE.

 Using this config:
 *LFE on subwoofer and conecting on the stereo in bravura.
 *Samplerate at 24bit,96000hz
 *Bass Manegement(bravura drivers) enable bass boost, cutoff frequency at 55hz.


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## thezfunk

Anyone still enjoying this soundcard?  I sure am.  It hasn't given me a single ounce of trouble and still sounds great especially with some of the new op amps I put in the thing.


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## wein07

thezfunk said:


> Anyone still enjoying this soundcard?  I sure am.  It hasn't given me a single ounce of trouble and still sounds great especially with some of the new op amps I put in the thing.


 

 Still Loving it with my AD797 OpAmp. Very smooth sounding for me.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/AKG-Signature-Reference-Class-Premium-Headphones/dp/B004444O3W/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
  
 Does anyone know if the Head Amp in it, will power a AKG Q 701 Quincy Jones Signature headphones adequately? Thanks.


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## lovretta

Hello if anyone is reading this, and first i am sorry for bumping this old topic,
 but i recently ordered this card off ebay, NOS.
  
 Since auzen is long gone, would anyone of you, in case you have one, upload english manual somewhere?
  
 I bought it due to need to go onto 64bit system, and old card i used was Behringer BCA2000, which doesn't have drivers for 64bit.
 Also i have X-Fi Titanium, but that one needs coupling caps replaced, it's analog outputs are hissing like very bad tape deck (altough digital works great).
  
 I checked this topic from first to last page, and the others where this card is mentioned.
 I would get any card right now, altough preferably for under $120 budget, perhaps could strech it to 150 but thats about it. I seeked for STX, X-Meridian, Prelude, Titanium HD, altough i'm not sure how any of them would drive my AKG K240 Monitor (600Ohm). So far only "source" i have that drives them acceptably is JVC A-X2 integrated amp, but for me it's unreasonable to have it just for headphones - it runs very hot, conusmes alot of power on idle, and is bulky. Already have Denon PMA700-V integrated next to my desk, but K240 don't sound very good with it.
  
 Anyway, english manual, please?


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## thezfunk

I just ordered one off Ebay as well.  Mine was NIB from Korea.  It is my second one.  The first one started having wierd popping issues.  The last thing I thought was the issue was the sound card.  The one from Ebay works well and I can see some physical differences (improvements) from my first one. 
  
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B02oGyBNjqFoNFhfNHZraThsWGs/view?usp=sharing
  
 Here is the manual.
  
http://www.hardwareheaven.com/community/threads/pax_azt_bravura_2013_v1-00-welcome-to-new-driver-set-7-22-13-add-new-prologic-ini-a.223274/
  
 Here are some updated, custom drivers as well.


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## lovretta

Hello, thank you very much!
  
 I also ordered mine NIB, from Korea. Can't wait till it arrives!
  
 I read it's output is 3.0Vrms, so wondering how much in mV is this? My integrated amp sensitivity is 150mV. Of course no need to be at exact level, but i wonder this too far from it's input sensitivity spec?
  
 Do you happen to know what is the power rating into 600ohm headphone?
  
 I have AKG K240 Monitor.
  
 Already was thinking about making "passive preamp" well not true one but just box with perhaps ALPS 27K pots, one for headphone out and one for line out. But i think for headphone this would do more damage then good things. If only could it be inserted before "discrete amplifier" the card is said to have.
  
 Right now i'm listening form X-Fi titanium digital out to Sony MD and it sounds quite good. Titanium needs recapping, decoupling caps are faulty, so probably most of them would need to be replaced. That would be a project for some other times.


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## thezfunk

Resurecting a dead thread here...

I just finally went to Windows 10 and I am having issues with my Bravura's headphone output in Windows 10.  I was also having issues with the mic input but that is resolved.

The headphone output sounds like it is cranked to 100% and I can't turn it down.  The dial in Windows I turn down but the headphones still are loud and distorted.  I am just glad they weren't on my head when I tried them the first time.  Anyone else have them working in Windows 10?


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