# Darkvoice 336 arrived in 110 voltage.



## echo1

My darkvoice 336 arrived today. I bought it from a factory autherized dealer in Nanchang. China. I said I would post the information once I recieved the amp so people would have a source for this amp.His info is as follows:

 Name: Jian Liu
 email: ljra2@hotmail.com
 Phone from usa: 011-86-791-809-3202
 Business name:Shan Buddhist nun 
 Address: 102 Bldg 33, Xianshi Road
 (city)Nanchang (state)Jiangxi
 China (zip)330001
 Also he carries other tube amps such as 300b etc.

 I attached a couple of photos. It was shipped in a wooden box and was shipped 3 day air through DHL Shipping Co. I need to go to Radio Shack to get me a couple rca plugs to make me a cable from my echo Indigo so I will be up and running by tommorrow. It arrived in perfect condition.


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## Fitz

How much did you pay for it, including shipping?

 Edit: I'm waiting until you get that baby hooked up to formally welcome you to the Darkvoice club


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## darkninja67

That's purdy. Like Fitz stated: How much for it?


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## tilt

somewhere around $200 - $250

 I recommend you change those tubes as soon as possible. Some 6ns7's for the front and some 6as7G or 6080 for the back.


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## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tilt* 
_somewhere around $200 - $250

 I recommend you change those tubes as soon as possible. Some 6ns7's for the front and some 6as7G or 6080 for the back._

 

Seconded. For the 6SN7 you have more choices than you can shake a stick at, too.


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## tilt

Action shot


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## echo1

I paid 250 shipped with 110 voltage and 3 day air.


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## darkninja67

What are the impressions on the sound of this amp? Solid buy for the money or what?


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## echo1

I should mention that these are converted at the manufacture so it took 10 days to make it because of our 110 volt requirement.So add in 3 day air for a total of 2 weeks from order to delivery.


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## aznsensazian

Welcome to the darkvoice club. You are i do believe the 4th headfi member to own one. Changing out the tubes is a must, as it changes the sound so dramatically and to your taste and system. I definately love mine. darkninja67, i used to own the ld2 and the darkvoice is totally in a different league. I would say the ld2 performs pretty well in its price range and is a overall good starter tube amp. THe darkvoice however, imo performs well over its price range probably around 400-500 or so. You wont be disappointed if you get one. Echo1, let us know how it sounds and your impressions?


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## echo1

The heavens opened up and I heard angels singing to me.....
 Well ok maybe thats a little much, but it is the best thing I have heard.I am highly satisfied. I know I can review this amp to death, but it comes down to each individuals preference. All I can say is WOW-only $250 for this. It kicks the ass out of Echo Indigos DJ's amplified out and I thought that was good.Also now I can listen to older recording(pre 70's) and they sound really good.I was allways not satisfied with solid state with older recordings(sounding weak, no punch etc.). 
 I would like to note that my experience with the dealer was a positive one. He was courtious and helpfull all the way through our transaction.Even after I recieved it he was emailing me to see If I was satisfied. I highly suggest him as a source for this amp.


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## echo1

How do you guys get the photos to show up without having to click a link? Also now I am wondering how it would sound with the Zhaolu 2.0. Should I quit now or go completely mad and keep going. What do you all think?


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## Fitz

Ok, now that you've finally hooked it up:












 Welcome to the Darkvoice club!!!

 Now you just gotta get that Zhaolu 2.0 and let us know how it sounds, because I'm interested in it as well


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## braker218

I am considering one of these but have a couple questions for the owners. How well does this work with low impedance headphones (i.e. Audio Technica, Grado)? Also, how did you pay the supplier (wire transfer, money order, etc)?

 Thanks in advance.


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## echo1

I used Western Union. Or you can do a Bank wire transfer. Also I am using them with 50 ohm Senns 555's and it sounds real good. I think the amp is rated 32 to 600 ohm. If you email him he will give you the specs. Also this is the only factory autherized dealer that I could find who could speak english. I got hung up on alot trying to say "do you speak english"?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 If you go to Orphean Sound audio-video lab's forum at
www.diybuy.net/forum-28-1.html and look at the topic"venders aound black thoat" there is a listing of darkvoice 336 autherized dealers. There you will see Shan Buddhist nun listed.You will need google language interpreter to read it an english.Also there is a asian type ebay and his feedback is 100% positive You can verify it here. http://auction1.taobao.com/auction/1...72b84163.jhtml

 I took pictures of the front and back of the manual that came with it and on the back page it gives there forum web address so that you can verify www.diybuy.net/forum-28-1.html is a ligit site. Well you can see I did a lot of research and didnt walk into this blindfolded. This is all the info I can give.Just think this all started with a search engine.


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## Elephas

Ha ha, echo1's post here has been posted in a thread titled "An American friend's impressions after receiving the 336."

http://www.diybuy.net/viewthread.php?tid=19648

 Apparently, Head-Fi does have some relevance.


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## darkninja67

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aznsensazian* 
_ darkninja67, i used to own the ld2 and the darkvoice is totally in a different league. I would say the ld2 performs pretty well in its price range and is a overall good starter tube amp._

 

So this amp would give a Woo Audio 3 a run for it's money? I will be looking for a larger or higher end tube amp oneday. Thinking Singlepower or Raptor if I get the funds. Maybe the Darkvoice can be my step up amp. Thanks for the info.


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## keyid

yea, i been looking at this amp for awhile and after long search of dealers, the one posted was the first that actually emailed me back. How about a quick review preferably against another amp. Im looking at the darkvoice or a headfive.


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## nikongod

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tilt* 
_money shot



_

 

caption in quotated photo altered to better reflect reality


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## echo1

I bought a matched pair of new-old stock NOS Tungsol 6sn7gt vt-231's triodes. I figure I can sell one or if I really like it keep it for a spare. They said they tested at 124\124 and 123\123. Minimum rating is 65 .
 It was 60 dollars shipped from canada. What do you all think?


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## philodox

Nice... I am really thinking about getting this thing.


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## swt61

I just found a buyer for my PPA, and sent my first e-mail to Jian Liu. I'm very excited about getting this amp. I have K340's, and aznsensazian's description of the synergy of this combo has my mouth watering. I hope to be in the Darkvoice club very soon!


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## aznsensazian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_I bought a matched pair of new-old stock NOS Tungsol 6sn7gt vt-231's triodes. I figure I can sell one or if I really like it keep it for a spare. They said they tested at 124\124 and 123\123. Minimum rating is 65 .
 It was 60 dollars shipped from canada. What do you all think?_

 

Is it black glass and round plated? If it is, you got yourself the best 6SN7 that money can buy!


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## aznsensazian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_I just found a buyer for my PPA, and sent my first e-mail to Jian Liu. I'm very excited about getting this amp. I have K340's, and aznsensazian's description of the synergy of this combo has my mouth watering. I hope to be in the Darkvoice club very soon!_

 

Welcome to the club buddy.


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## Michael415

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_I just found a buyer for my PPA, and sent my first e-mail to Jian Liu. I'm very excited about getting this amp. I have K340's, and aznsensazian's description of the synergy of this combo has my mouth watering. I hope to be in the Darkvoice club very soon!_

 

Do you guys think it would be feesible to see about a group buy?


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## lolos

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Michael415* 
_Do you guys think it would be feesible to see about a group buy?_

 

I will be in. I just bought Senn. HD650 + RnB Grace 52 cable and looking for a good amp.

 If you decided, PLEASE let me know, seriously.


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## Michael415

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lolos* 
_I will be in. I just bought Senn. HD650 + RnB Grace 52 cable and looking for a good amp.

 If you decided, PLEASE let me know, seriously._

 

I dropped him an email to see what price breaks he can offer and at how many units will keep u posted.


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## keyid

yea, ill be awaiting for the price breaks for a group buy.


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## braker218

If there is a group buy I would probably be in as well.


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## Michael415

I just heard from the guy, basically no price breaks at all. quoted me 280 for the amp. So it doesnt look like a gb will be happening, at least not with what he quoted me.


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## lolos

This is even more than what echo1 paid!
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_I paid 250 shipped with 110 voltage and 3 day air._


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## aznsensazian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lolos* 
_This is even more than what echo1 paid!_

 

It appears that they are raising prices due to the sudden demand for the amp from foreigners. I still think its a hell of a price for an amp of that magnitude. I would if its possible try to reach the builder of the amp and maybe he can provide lower prices. But remember the parts used for this amp is pretty good and the wiring is not sloppy, but very clean and neat. The simple and nice design layout is also a plus. Also the tube configurations alone provide justification to own this amp imo. So all in all, i dont think you could go wrong even in the price point, which is still low for a high quality tube amp.


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## cosmopragma

How are you going to maintain the amp?
 Are there any instructions regarding bias adjustment included?
 Schematics?


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## Fitz

It's self-biasing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Layout is extremely clean point-to-point, it wouldn't be hard to draw up a schematic.


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## Hi-Finthen

It Chinese, not German!


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## cosmopragma

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_It's self-biasing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Layout is extremely clean point-to-point, it wouldn't be hard to draw up a schematic._

 

That's nice and adds enormously to the appeal.
 I always wonder what newbies are thinking when they purchase a cheap chinese tube amp without any domestic service and no information a local service technician could work with.
 Unadjusted bias does wear out the expensive NOS tubes pretty fast and naturally it doesn't sound as good as it could.


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## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hi-Finthen* 
_It Chinese, not German!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 






 Still, even at $280 it's a hell of a bargain, IMO.


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## HiGHFLYiN9

Anyone willing to post some pics of the insides?


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## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiGHFLYiN9* 
_Anyone willing to post some pics of the insides?_

 

If I finish listening early enough tonight I'll snap some.


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## aznsensazian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiGHFLYiN9* 
_Anyone willing to post some pics of the insides?_

 

Ask and ye shall recieve, http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showt...ight=darkvoice


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## HiGHFLYiN9

Thanks aznsensazian, looks like a pretty clean and straightforward design. Those big red gumdrop caps look pretty interesting.


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## keyid

The price on these are going to jump in August to $300 from this particular seller; with an new export model says its going to be improved not just voltage change. I got quoted 280 also but I dont live in the states so my shipping cost is higher.


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## Michael415

at the price of 300, I wonder how it stacks up against the bottlehead SEX, or the mapletree? At that price its close enough I am inclined to go with a well known and easily supported amp instead of the darkvoice.


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## herbcat9

Hey I'm wondering if someone can answer this question for me. I've also beeen in touch with the seller and he is willing to set it up for either 220v or 240v. Now EU as come up with a standard 230v across the board for most European countries. I got in touch with my local gas and electricity company and they claim that the voltage can swing anywhere between 207v to 243v depending on peek periods and so fourth. So this in mind, could any harm come to the tubes by setting it up 220v with short peaks out of the house hold plugs? or what disavantages can happen by having it set at 240v and it not being powered enough. JuanLiu said he couldn't set it up for 230 for whatever reasons. Now I know in the States it's not continuosly 110v all the time as well so is there some tolerences here that I shouldn't really have to worry about. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 cheers


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## echo1

He did send a scematic in case of repairs.(sorry about the R word) He realizes its to expensive to send it back to china. Check attachment.


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## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Michael415* 
_I just heard from the guy, basically no price breaks at all. quoted me 280 for the amp. So it doesnt look like a gb will be happening, at least not with what he quoted me._

 

I emailed him 3 days ago and haven't heard back yet. How long did it take for him to e-mail you back?


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## Michael415

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_I emailed him 3 days ago and haven't heard back yet. How long did it take for him to e-mail you back?_

 

 I heard back within 24hrs, u may want to try again.


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## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Michael415* 
_I heard back within 24hrs, u may want to try again._

 

The problem was I use Yahoo and everytime I try to e-mail to a Hotmail account it doesn'y go through. I know Microsoft doesn't like Yahoo, and I suspect foul play, as this has been a problem for me for years on several different computers. Do I sound like a conspiracy theorist? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Anyway, I created a Hotmail account and got a reply right away. He quoted me $299.00, but I think it's going to be more than worth it. I'm sending him the $ via Western Union. Now to find some alternate tubes.


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## lolos

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_I paid 250 shipped with 110 voltage and 3 day air._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Michael415* 
_...quoted me 280 for the amp..._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_...He quoted me $299.00..._

 

Why is he raising the price every single time?!!


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## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lolos* 
_Why is he raising the price every single time?!!_

 

That is pretty interesting...


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## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lolos* 
_Why is he raising the price every single time?!!_

 

I'm sure as interest goes up from the U.S., so does his price. They're learning capitalism quickly. I don't think there have been a lot of American inquiries until now, and he's probably thinking he can get more for them. I still think $300.00 is a very good price and I don't begrudge him a better profit margin, but I'd get my order in quick if you're thinking about one.


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## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_Ok, now that you've finally hooked it up:












 Welcome to the Darkvoice club!!!

 Now you just gotta get that Zhaolu 2.0 and let us know how it sounds, because I'm interested in it as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

My Darkvoice is on order now, and my Zhaolu2 arrives Monday. I expect the Darkvoice to take 2 weeks due to it being converted to 110v. But will give impressions of the combo, when it arrives. Thanks for posting all the info echo1.


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## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_My Darkvoice is on order now, and my Zhaolu2 arrives Monday. I expect the Darkvoice to take 2 weeks due to it being converted to 110v. But will give impressions of the combo, when it arrives. Thanks for posting all the info echo1._

 

My Zhaolu D2 arrives tomorrow.


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## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_My Zhaolu D2 arrives tomorrow. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Please let us know what you think of the combo synergy!


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## DennyL

I'm in the UK and Jian Liu quoted me a price of US$280 on 4th June. Here are bits of his email:-

 <<Darkvoice has recently started its test sales to fans abroad. The current ¡°
 export model¡± is directly converted from the domestic version (mainly due 
 to the different voltage system). Following the first deliveries we have 
 with no exception received very positive feedback from our clients. 
 Therefore, we are going to launch our official export model very soon, 
 which is produced tailor-made for each respective market. Until then, the 
 price of our Darkvoice 336 amp will remain unchanged at USD 250, including 
 shipping. The price will increased to 300 usd incl. shipping after the 
 launch of export model which is estimated to be in August 2006. So we 
 suggest you to order this asap for a better price.
 .
 .
 .
 Btw, due to the shipping cost to UK is more expensive than to USA, the 
 total price is USD 280.>>

 So I ordered one on 5th June for US$280 shipped.


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## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_Please let us know what you think of the combo synergy!_


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## echo1

I am the person who bought the first darkvoice from
 Jian Liu, the dealer in China. Mr. Liu sent me a email and asked me to post it for him. It is an explanation of why the price has increased. I do not think he is increasing the price as demand increases. If you look at the previous darkvoices that were bought on ebay by members here, they say that dealer quite selling them because there was no profit. Those darkvoices were bought at the same price as mine.
 Mr. Liu email:


 Dear friends,
 Firstly I would like to thank all of you for your interest on the Darkvoice. Also thank you very much for your positive feedback about our product and our service.
 We have noticed from the BBS that we have caused some confusion about our pricing recently. I want to take apologize here and make a clear explanation to you why we have changed our price and offered different prices (250/ 280/ 299) to different countries.

 We sold the first amp to USA for 250 USD. This is true. Part of the reason is, as the first trial order to abroad, we gave up all our profit. Another reason is, we did not really have idea how much extra cost could occur due to the special wood packing, air-shipping and the conversion of the voltage. It turned out later that we did not really fully cover our cost for this first order. But when we heard that the first client is very satisfied with this product, we still feel very happy and delighted. We think we did a very good job! But only we know we made mistake on our first offer.

 Therefore, when we received other enquiries later, we had to increase our price to 280 USD. As we got more and more enquires, we found out that the enquiries are from very different countries, not only from USA, but also from Europe and even South-America. This results into the fact that we had to offer different prices based on different shipping rate. It is also to mention that the fuel price is very unstable und keeps going up right now which results into the increase of the shipping cost.

 To make it simple and straightaway, we decide to fix our price for Darkvoice on 299 USD including shipping (3days by air). This price applies for all buyers from Europe, America and Asia. For South America, a small amount of extra cost due to the shipping charge might be required. With this announcement we hope to end all the discussion about the price.
 We appreciate your understanding and will continue to do our best to deliver your order in a best condition. We can 100% ensure you that 299 USD is absolutely worth to invest. JianLiu


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## echo1

I am the person who bought the first darkvoice from
 Jian Liu, the dealer in China. Mr. Liu sent me a email and asked me to post it for him. It is an explanation of why the price has increased. I do not think he is increasing the price as demand increases. If you look at the previous darkvoices that were bought on ebay by members here, they say that dealer quite selling them because there was no profit. Those darkvoices were bought at the same price as mine.
 Mr. Liu email:


 Dear friends,
 Firstly I would like to thank all of you for your interest on the Darkvoice. Also thank you very much for your positive feedback about our product and our service.
 We have noticed from the BBS that we have caused some confusion about our pricing recently. I want to take apologize here and make a clear explanation to you why we have changed our price and offered different prices (250/ 280/ 299) to different countries.

 We sold the first amp to USA for 250 USD. This is true. Part of the reason is, as the first trial order to abroad, we gave up all our profit. Another reason is, we did not really have idea how much extra cost could occur due to the special wood packing, air-shipping and the conversion of the voltage. It turned out later that we did not really fully cover our cost for this first order. But when we heard that the first client is very satisfied with this product, we still feel very happy and delighted. We think we did a very good job! But only we know we made mistake on our first offer.

 Therefore, when we received other enquiries later, we had to increase our price to 280 USD. As we got more and more enquires, we found out that the enquiries are from very different countries, not only from USA, but also from Europe and even South-America. This results into the fact that we had to offer different prices based on different shipping rate. It is also to mention that the fuel price is very unstable und keeps going up right now which results into the increase of the shipping cost.

 To make it simple and straightaway, we decide to fix our price for Darkvoice on 299 USD including shipping (3days by air). This price applies for all buyers from Europe, America and Asia. For South America, a small amount of extra cost due to the shipping charge might be required. With this announcement we hope to end all the discussion about the price.
 We appreciate your understanding and will continue to do our best to deliver your order in a best condition. We can 100% ensure you that 299 USD is absolutely worth to invest. JianLiu


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## Michael415

I don't think anyone is accusing him of price gouging. My concern is I'm much more willing to risk 200-240 for a basically no name amp that got a few good reviews from newbies (no offense to anyone I am one also), but 300 dollars is moving quickly up the price scale. What pops into my mind is for another 70 dollars I can get a amp of known good quality, or for another 120 bucks I can get a well known and respected amp. My other major concern with this amp is if it needs to be repaired, since cost to ship back to china isn’t a valid option and customer phone support wont exist it is pretty much sold as is. The amp looks great and I'm sure sounds good but is looking a bit to unknown for me personally to jump onboard. I had only put this amp on my possible list with a group buy at a good price. Oh well


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## lolos

x2


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## echo1

removed


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## 003

Would this amp be good for me? I love the laid-back presentation of the sound on the 650s, it makes them sound almost speakerlike, and I find it amazing to hear that from headphones. I like the soundstage to have plenty of depth and very expansive. I absolutely love slightly foward, lush midrange sound. As for the bass, I like it to be able to go down very deep, and have plenty of impact, but not so much that it drowns out the rest of the spectrum or makes me feel pressure in my ears. I like the highs to be not fatiguing, and have that "magic sparkle" of tubes. I like the sound to have good speed (taking into consideration that this is a tube amp, of course. I do have silver interconnects).

 I would like to purchase an amp asap, and I am having a very hard time deciding between this, the G&W T2.6F, the WooAudio 3 and the Bada PH12.

 I listen to metal and rap. All my music is lossless and I use ASIO.


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## swt61

I got an e-mail very similar to echo1's today. I'm sure the shipping is pretty expensive and I don't find $300.00 a lot to ask for an amp of this quality. Bottom line is if you don't make a profit, you don't stay in business. He seems very up front and quite a nice guy to deal with. I had no hesitation sending him my $300.00. BTW it's cheaper to Western Union money to China than it is to send it a few towns away, go figure. I'll be happy to post my impressions in a few weeks when I get mine. I don't think price gouging applies here at all, and certainly didn't mean to imply that earlier. I just think he's a knowledgable businessman trying to turn a profit. Nothing wrong with that.


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## echo1

Sorry SWT61 I removed my post. I knew what you meant, but didnt present it very well.


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## aznsensazian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Michael415* 
_I don't think anyone is accusing him of price gouging. My concern is I'm much more willing to risk 200-240 for a basically no name amp that got a few good reviews from newbies (no offense to anyone I am one also), but 300 dollars is moving quickly up the price scale. What pops into my mind is for another 70 dollars I can get a amp of known good quality, or for another 120 bucks I can get a well known and respected amp. My other major concern with this amp is if it needs to be repaired, since cost to ship back to china isn’t a valid option and customer phone support wont exist it is pretty much sold as is. The amp looks great and I'm sure sounds good but is looking a bit to unknown for me personally to jump onboard. I had only put this amp on my possible list with a group buy at a good price. Oh well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Ive had the darkvoice for well over 2 months now and have not experience any sort of problems. It is the blackest amp ive ever heard. All the amps that i have own even well known ones emited some kind of buzz or noise at max volume level. With the tha336, it is quiet all the way. At $300, you will be hard pressed to find anything better in that price range imo. Ive had much experience with headphones, and amps and trust me, you will not regret purchasing this amp. Ive owned a bottlehead foreplay and although it is not a headphone amp, but a preamp, i got a good idea of how a bottlehead sounds. The bottlehead to me is very sluggish, too tube like, and although it is very smooth in the mid band, it doesnt extend on both ends that well. Imo, it just sounded like your regular old mill tube amp. The darkvoice has more character and plays instruments in space very well without sacrificing any detail. Its smooth, but not too overtly smooth. Its best suited for harsh phones like the cd3000 or sa5000, but synergizes well with the k340, k501 and any other high impendence phones also. With grados, it smooths out the edges and drives them equally as well as the higher impedence phones. I may sound like im defending this amp, but all in honesty, i havent found an amp that suits my taste as much as this one. Its all about producing emotion and this amp surely can do that. 
 -Minh


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## echo1

I could see how his quote was off. I called out of the blue and he was estimating what he thought it would be. Like he said there was extra charges that he didnt factor in as he had never shipped these out of Asia before. But you know what, he still stuck with what he quoted, even after taking a loss. Honerable.
 And the amp is quiet just like aznsensazian said. I mean nothing, completely silent.
 Also would I pay 300.00 for this now that I have had it for a while? Yes


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## echo1

I could see how his quote was off. I called out of the blue and he was estimating what he thought it would be. Like he said there was extra charges that he didnt factor in as he had never shipped these out of Asia before. But you know what, he still stuck with what he quoted, even after taking a loss. Honerable
 Also would I pay 300.00 for this now that I have been listining for a while.?Yes


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## drarthurwells

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_I bought a matched pair of new-old stock NOS Tungsol 6sn7gt vt-231's triodes. I figure I can sell one or if I really like it keep it for a spare. They said they tested at 124\124 and 123\123. Minimum rating is 65 .
 It was 60 dollars shipped from canada. What do you all think?_

 

The round plate Tung sol GT is the best 6SN7 you can get.

 $60 for a pair of strong ones is good.


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## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_Sorry SWT61 I removed my post. I knew what you meant, but didnt present it very well._

 

No the fault was mine. I didn't state what I meant very well. What I actually was trying to say was that Capitalism is a very new concept in China, and there are scores of Chinese small businesses struggling to learn this new system. There have been many teams of American volunteers going over to teach them about running small businesses. I think the only mistake that
 Jian Liu may have made was not charging enough to cover his costs and turn a decent profit the first time out. Any time you raise a price people are going to get upset, even if it's warranted like in this case. That was a lucky break for you echo1, but you probably wouldn't have had a problem with $300.00. I would like to see this very respectful and nice gentleman make a nice little business for himself. I think he has a great attitude and genuine love for audio.


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## Bosk

I'm considering buying one of these amps to pair with 2006 DT880's, and although I'm clear on the fact you can change the front tube for 6SN7's, I'm not sure on the back tube.

 Does anyone know which tubes you can substitute for the rear "6N5P" tube?
 Thanks.


 Oh, one other thing - has anyone tried using a Darkvoice as a preamp yet?


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## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bosk* 
_I'm considering buying one of these amps to pair with 2006 DT880's, and although I'm clear on the fact you can change the front tube for 6SN7's, I'm not sure on the back tube.

 Does anyone know which tubes you can substitute for the rear "6N5P" tube?
 Thanks.


 Oh, one other thing - has anyone tried using a Darkvoice as a preamp yet?_

 


 6N5P ->6080, 6080g, 6080w, 6AS7, 6AS7g, 6AS7w


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## 003

Wish me luck, I just ordered one. Oh, in case anybody was wondering, I asked the seller how he thought it would do with the HD650s. Here is his reply:

 Thank you for your enquiry and your interest in Darkvoice.
 DarkVoice Tha-336/337 is very very suitable for HD650,I can't express how pretty good it sounds.. for my poor English. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I absolutely sure you will like it if you like HD650. It is also suitable for AKG K501/601/701 GRADO SR325/RS1 and DT880.

 EDIT:

 Western Union just denied my money transfer because they said it is to risky and that there could be fraud involved. What the hell? I know that's not true. I think I will just go with an x-can v3 or wooaudio3. I don't want to go through the hassle of trying to get this wire transfer correct. If one pops up on the FS forum I might get it.


----------



## Hi-Finthen

Seems he has an angle to get a cheaper price on these Chineese amps by; Well he can tell you.

 How does this Darkvoice compare to the new Zoulu?


----------



## hyamaiata

Fitz, does the Zhaolu D2 you are recieving today has the discrete headamp upgrade?


----------



## echo1

I just changed the tubes. The original deal for the tungsol fell through. So I purchased a RCA 6AS7G Coke Bottle Style Nos for the back and RCA 6SN7gtb(the better ones) for the front. The difference was incredible.
 CHANGE THOSE TUBES!!!!













 CHANGE THOSE TUBES!!!
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=119638
 for those who dont know about the tube review. It helped me.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *003* 
_Wish me luck, I just ordered one. Oh, in case anybody was wondering, I asked the seller how he thought it would do with the HD650s. Here is his reply:

 Thank you for your enquiry and your interest in Darkvoice.
 DarkVoice Tha-336/337 is very very suitable for HD650,I can't express how pretty good it sounds.. for my poor English. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I absolutely sure you will like it if you like HD650. It is also suitable for AKG K501/601/701 GRADO SR325/RS1 and DT880.

 EDIT:

 Western Union just denied my money transfer because they said it is to risky and that there could be fraud involved. What the hell? I know that's not true. I think I will just go with an x-can v3 or wooaudio3. I don't want to go through the hassle of trying to get this wire transfer correct. If one pops up on the FS forum I might get it._

 

That's crazy, it's your money at risk. They didn't have a problem with mine. Do they guaranty against fraud? You could do a wire transfer from your bank as well. I doubt you'll see one of these on the FS forum. Also the e-bay seller who used to sell these told me he can't get them any more.


----------



## echo1

With me the Western Union had a recording about the perils of sending money through there service as once someone picks up the money it is gone, but they allowed me to send the money to China.I think everyone gets the recording as a legal defence of Western Union so they cant be held responsible for any losses.It doesnt matter if you send money accross state or out of the country.
 But the US Postal service which I tried first would not let me send money to china. Strange. Walmart buys billions but I cant send 250.00.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_With me the Western Union had a recording about the perils of sending money through there service as once someone picks up the money it is gone, but they allowed me to send the money to China.I think everyone gets the recording as a legal defence of Western Union so they cant be held responsible for any losses.It doesnt matter if you send money accross state or out of the country.
 But the US Postal service which I tried first would not let me send money to china. Strange. Walmart buys billions but I cant send 250.00._

 

My Western Union never said a thing or played any recording for me. But the guy behind me in line got really ticked off when it cost me $14.00 to send $300.00 to China, and he had to pay $27.00 to send $175.00 to a town 150 miles away.


----------



## Bosk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_6N5P ->6080, 6080g, 6080w, 6AS7, 6AS7g, 6AS7w_

 

Cheers, that's just what I was looking for. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Could anyone comment on how the Darkvoice compares with the Woo 3 or PPX3 btw?


----------



## blackexpress

Yes a comparison with the ppx3 and mpx3 would be nice.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *blackexpress* 
_Yes a comparison with the ppx3 and mpx3 would be nice._

 

Mail one to me.


----------



## 003

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *blackexpress* 
_Yes a comparison with the ppx3 and mpx3 would be nice._

 

And the Woo3. Because I just ordered one.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *003* 
_And the Woo3. Because I just ordered one._

 


 I'd like to hear that comparo too!


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hyamaiata* 
_Fitz, does the Zhaolu D2 you are recieving today has the discrete headamp upgrade?_

 

No, I ordered it from ifiaudio which doesn't have the discrete amp upgrade available yet. But I'll definitely get one in the future, the stock amp just doesn't cut it even for the brief listens I intended it for.


----------



## Bosk

Bump because I'm thinking of buying one, and would like to hear further impressions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Some thoughts on how the amp responds to tuberolling would also be great!


----------



## jbloudg20

I'd really like to hear one, as the (modified) VanWaarde amp I'm building uses a 6SN7 for gain, and a 6AS7G output tube, just like this amp. Seems like a pretty good price, too.


----------



## swt61

Well it's been about a week since I sent payment, so another week or two to go until it shows up.


----------



## Bosk

I put my order in for a Darkvoice 336 today, hopefully I'll have it within a fortnight. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll be sure to post impressions when it arrives!


----------



## phergus_25

Anyone though about this amp in comparison to the Little Dot II?


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *phergus_25* 
_Anyone though about this amp in comparison to the Little Dot II?_

 

http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=167954


----------



## aznsensazian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bosk* 
_I put my order in for a Darkvoice 336 today, hopefully I'll have it within a fortnight. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'll be sure to post impressions when it arrives!_

 

Congrats!! Our darkvoice group is growing larger everyday
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cant wait to hear your and swt61's impressions.


----------



## Bosk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aznsensazian* 
_Congrats!! Our darkvoice group is growing larger everyday
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cant wait to hear your and swt61's impressions._

 

I can't wait to get my grubby little mitts on it to tell you the truth. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It will be my first ever piece of tube gear so I really don't know what to expect, I can only go on how others have described the sound of tube amps here and on other forums.

 Incidentally aznsensazian do you remember how long you had to wait after you placed your order before yours arrived?
 I'm in Australia but I guess it would take about the same number of days to get here as it would to the US.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aznsensazian* 
_Congrats!! Our darkvoice group is growing larger everyday
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cant wait to hear your and swt61's impressions._

 

Shouldn't be too much longer. He told me 2-3 weeks. 2 weeks will be up Fri. 
 I hope it's closer to two!


----------



## phergus_25

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=167954_

 

Due to price and avaliability I think that I might just go for the LD2 for the moment. Next mini meet we'll have to to a AB comparison.
 -greg


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *phergus_25* 
_Due to price and avaliability I think that I might just go for the LD2 for the moment. Next mini meet we'll have to to a AB comparison.
 -greg_

 

Or get the Darkvoice and we can have three of them side by side with different tubes in 'em.


----------



## phergus_25

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_Or get the Darkvoice and we can have three of them side by side with different tubes in 'em. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

its tempting, but ~2Xs the cost kinda is killin me. I might just chill out till I have the $ for one.

 I really liked the sound of yours, so that plan is pretty tempting at the moment


----------



## Bosk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_Or get the Darkvoice and we can have three of them side by side with different tubes in 'em. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The first thing I do when mine arrives - other than listening to it naturally - is start a Darkvoice Tuberolling Thread.


----------



## aznsensazian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bosk* 
_I can't wait to get my grubby little mitts on it to tell you the truth. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It will be my first ever piece of tube gear so I really don't know what to expect, I can only go on how others have described the sound of tube amps here and on other forums.

 Incidentally aznsensazian do you remember how long you had to wait after you placed your order before yours arrived?
 I'm in Australia but I guess it would take about the same number of days to get here as it would to the US._

 

It took me about 2 weeks to recieve mine, though i bought mine from a different seller and he shipped it ems. What cans are you planning to use with the darkvoice?


----------



## Bosk

Planning to use mine with 2006 DT880's.
 I've owned Senn 580's in the past but they were far too dark for me so I'm hoping the Beyers will provide the same fideilty but with a more forward sound. 

 With a tube amp I'm guaranteed the midrange will be taken care of at the very least.


----------



## DennyL

I ordered a DarkVoice 336 from Jian Liu on 5th June. I just emailed him and he told me it is made and being tested and will be shipped on Thursday or Friday, making 17 - 18 days from ordering to shipping. I'm in the UK and ordered one suitable for UK mains power, I don't know if that effects the delivery time.


----------



## Aethelred

What is the web site name that you've order your darkvoice ?


----------



## Bosk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_Name: Jian Liu
 email: ljra2@hotmail.com
 Phone from usa: 011-86-791-809-3202
 Business name:Shan Buddhist nun 
 Address: 102 Bldg 33, Xianshi Road
 (city)Nanchang (state)Jiangxi
 China (zip)330001
 Also he carries other tube amps such as 300b etc._

 

I ordered mine from Jian Liu, see his details above.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_Or get the Darkvoice and we can have three of them side by side with different tubes in 'em. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 












 Feeling left out. Hmmm, Atlanta could be a fun trip.


----------



## swt61

Just got word from JianLiu that my Darkvoice was shipped yesterday. Just 3 or 4 more days to wait.


----------



## pentagonwizard

I have a few questions about the darkvoice.

 I am new to amps in general and very new to tube amps. I was planning on getting the Headfive that would feed out of my ipod line out and into k501. Does anyone have an idea on how the darkvoice would compare?

 Also, pricewise, the two amps seem to be similar (~$250), how much does in cost to roll the tubes in the darkvoice?

 Finally, does the darkvoice have crossfeed?


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pentagonwizard* 
_I have a few questions about the darkvoice.

 I am new to amps in general and very new to tube amps. I was planning on getting the Headfive that would feed out of my ipod line out and into k501. Does anyone have an idea on how the darkvoice would compare?

 Also, pricewise, the two amps seem to be similar (~$250), how much does in cost to roll the tubes in the darkvoice?

 Finally, does the darkvoice have crossfeed?_

 

I'll answer the few questions I can. There is no crossfeed in the Darkvoice. As far as tube rolling cost, that depends on what tubes you get. I just bought 2 new tubes for $65.00. You could go with less expensive tubes than these.


----------



## Bosk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pentagonwizard* 
_I have a few questions about the darkvoice.

 I am new to amps in general and very new to tube amps. I was planning on getting the Headfive that would feed out of my ipod line out and into k501. Does anyone have an idea on how the darkvoice would compare?

 Also, pricewise, the two amps seem to be similar (~$250), how much does in cost to roll the tubes in the darkvoice?

 Finally, does the darkvoice have crossfeed?_

 

Go for tubes, you know you want to. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You can buy tubes for next to nothing on eBay if you're patient and get lucky. There are many sellers who sell used vintage tubes which are very reasonably priced compared to their NOS counterparts.


----------



## Bosk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_Just got word from JianLiu that my Darkvoice was shipped yesterday. Just 3 or 4 more days to wait._

 

You must be getting excited by now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Don't forget to post your impressions of the amp when it arrives, and if you have any comments or suggestions regarding tuberolling the 336 we want to hear them!


----------



## Azure

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aznsensazian* 
_Its smooth, but not too overtly smooth. Its best suited for harsh phones like the cd3000 or sa5000, but synergizes well with the k340, k501 and any other high impendence phones also.
 -Minh_

 

Did you personally try it with the SA5k's? More detailed impressions?

 Does the seller not use PayPal?


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bosk* 
_You must be getting excited by now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Don't forget to post your impressions of the amp when it arrives, and if you have any comments or suggestions regarding tuberolling the 336 we want to hear them! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm possitivly giddy! I purchased the same tubes that aznsensazian said he likes best with his K340's. He said that they give the 340's great bass impact, and that sounded like what I wanted. The new tubes will probably show up a bit later than the Darkvoice, but I'll post for both arrivals.


----------



## Azure

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_I'm possitivly giddy! I purchased the same tubes that aznsensazian said he likes best with his K340's. He said that they give the 340's great bass impact, and that sounded like what I wanted. The new tubes will probably show up a bit later than the Darkvoice, but I'll post for both arrivals._

 

Hey, when did you order the Darkvoice and how long did it take to ship? What payment method did you use (Do you know if he accepts PayPal?)?


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Azure* 
_Hey, when did you order the Darkvoice and how long did it take to ship? What payment method did you use (Do you know if he accepts PayPal?)?_

 

I ordered it two weeks ago Friday. It takes about 10 days to convert it to 
 110v at the factory. It shipped day before yesterday and is supposed to take 3-4 days to ship. Quite fast considering it's coming from China. He does not take PayPal, you need to use Western Union. It's actually cheaper to Western Union money to China than it is to send it instate. I believe the cost of sending the $299.00 was $14.00.


----------



## Bosk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_I'm possitivly giddy! I purchased the same tubes that aznsensazian said he likes best with his K340's. He said that they give the 340's great bass impact, and that sounded like what I wanted. The new tubes will probably show up a bit later than the Darkvoice, but I'll post for both arrivals._

 

Heh, that's funny because I just bought a couple of used vintage 6SN7's for mine from eBay before the amp has even finished being built. I can't wait to tuberoll this little amp.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Azure* 
_Did you personally try it with the SA5k's? More detailed impressions?

 Does the seller not use PayPal?_

 

It took the edge off the SA5Ks some, but beyond that I don't remember much of the combo myself. Try as I might, I couldn't really get into the SA5Ks on SS or tubes.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bosk* 
_Heh, that's funny because I just bought a couple of used vintage 6SN7's for mine from eBay before the amp has even finished being built. I can't wait to tuberoll this little amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I've been searching for NOS Raytheon 6080 and Kenrad black glass 6SN7gt/vt231 for a few weeks now, and just found a good deal (what the heck do I know about tubes, I think it was a good deal). I've been following aznsensazian's impressions of this combo with his K340's for a while now, and from everything he's told me, I think I'll like this combo. But of coarse I'll keep my eyes out for other tube combos like any good Head-Fi consumer.


----------



## Fitz

Anybody know much about cathode resistor bypass caps?

 I had to solder a couple on to get rid of the hum caused by the AC heater supply when using a Tung-Sol RP 6SN7GT. I used some Nichicon 100uF/25V caps I had floating around, with no series markings on them. I don't really notice any differences/problems on my other tubes with them added to the circuit (though I still need dampers to realistically use the Tung-Sol), but I'm sure I can do better than the unknown series Nichicons.

 Any recommendations on brand/series, rated voltage, capacitance?

 (Oh, and I guess this marks the first documented Darkvoice mod 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## echo1

These are the tubes I have found to be quiet on a darkvoice.And some of my failures. I have had some that had a hum, but it may be the tubes. For example I sent back a Cbs/Hytron 6sn7gt to a dealer for hum, but just got a Hytron 6sn7gt which is dead quiet.And there basically the same tube. But if I run into more I may try Fitz mod.
 Also when you recieve the amp make shure the tubes are all the way in solid. You will here a little hum, but it will go away after a few hours. One person said he thought it was the capacitors breaking in. So here goes.
 Used Sylvania 6sn7gt-Had hum but went away after a few hours, now quiet.
 Used Hytron 6sn7gt- quiet
 Used CBS/JAN 5692-Slight noise. Goes away after about 10 min. of warmup. I only paid 10 dollars for it so I am fine with it.
 Used Ken rad v-231 staggerd plates clear glass-quiet,no problem
 NOS United Electronics 6as7g-Quiet Good back tube. My tube of preference.
 Update-Recieved second Raytheon 6080-nice quiet tube.But doesnt seem to play nice with Sylvania 6sn7gt tube.When combined the hum is back.But when I plug the United Elec. 6as7g with the Sylvania it is quiet again.What the? Maybe someone has a answer for this. Removed from not working out list.
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Tubes that did not work out.....
 Cbs/hytron 6sn7gt-hum never went away,sent back to dealer.
 Nos Rca 6as7g Was very microphonic, went pop about four hours into use.Dead. Sent back to dealer.Other owners use them with no problem
 Nos Rca 6sn7gt- some hum. But 3 bucks and I cant complain.Great sounding tube.I am going to break it in for about 24 hours and see if it changes.
 Used Delco 6sn7gt-Bad tube real bad hum.Threw away

 Used Sylvania 6sn7wgt-bad hum one channel,bad tube. But sounds good on the amp if you can find a good one.
 Used Rca 6sn7gtb-worn out,junk.Cant suggest because I dont have a good one.
 New Electro- harmonix 6sn7-do not buy,nobody has got these to work.
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Its a jungle out there-buying tubes is a crap shoot.I have bought 5 dollar tubes off ebay and they sound fantastic and have bought tubes that are junk and advertised as "like new ,quiet,fantastic,etc."Also buying from a dealer does not gaurentee a good tube(or a compatible one,like Fitz Tung Sol) but most have good return policy. But even with dealers I ran into one that I wouldnt ever deal with again.But the rewards are "Oh so good" when you get a good one.
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Tubes on the way in bulk buy....
 Naional Union 6sn7 with jan-cnu disignaton. 
 National Union black glass
 Hytron 6sn7gt-I want a spare
 Various RCA sn7gt and gtb
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Well when I get the new bacht I will report how the new RCA and National Union work.


----------



## echo1

Hey Fitz, I am more than willing to try the Tung- Sol Roundplate in my darkvoice to test for hum
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Just trying to do my civic duty


----------



## drxpert

Wow I'm guessing he makes $80-100 profit per unit.


----------



## Azure

It takes 7-8 days for the amp to be reconfigured for 110 volts. This is a bit long for me. So, there's virtually no sonic differences between the two versions, right? Couldn't I just get a step-down converter and use the 220 volt version?


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Azure* 
_It takes 7-8 days for the amp to be reconfigured for 110 volts. This is a bit long for me. So, there's virtually no sonic differences between the two versions, right? Couldn't I just get a step-down converter and use the 220 volt version?_

 

I believe you could, but I think you'd be much happier with the 110v version. The 7 days will pass before you know it, then it's audio bliss for the long haul.


----------



## Fitz

Hmmm echo1, we definitely need to start a dedicated thread for Darkvoice tuberolling sometime.


----------



## echo1

I just listened to Ted Nugents "Stranglehold" at earblead levels. Wow!!!
 I cant hear but it was Awsome and It fixed the noisey tube at the same time!!!
 Its a good darkvoice mod, just blast Stranglehold for a few hours.We will call it the Ted Nugent Mod.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I mean whats good enough for Ted is good enough for me!!!


----------



## echo1

I have returned to normal. I knew not to drink that Energy Drink. It was a combination of caffiene, rock and roll, and watching "Girls gone Wild" that just sent me over the top.I am back to listening to the Blues and feeling old and sorry. So Excuuuse me.


----------



## Fitz

Well after a few more hours of burn-in, the Tung-Sol RP has finally started to wake up from its very long sleep. It may not be as smooth or refined as the RCA 5692, but it sure is fun.


----------



## echo1

Good Fritz. I was wondering how the tung sol would sound with the darkvoice. Let us know after your burn in. 
 The 5692 does sound nice, I agree.


----------



## Bosk

Thanks very much for posting your tuberolling impressions so far guys. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can imagine most of us doing lots more rolling in future as we search for that perfect input/output tube combination.

 I have a bunch of vintage RCA & GE 6SN7GTB's coming my way care of eBay, which will probably reach me before the amp itself does. I'm dying to find out just how much improvment a good set of tubes will make to the amp. What I'm really after is a soundstage that's as holographic as possible.

 By contributing our thoughts on the various tubes we buy, hopefully we can all save a bit of money and discover that 'ultimate' combination sooner rather than later, lord knows there's enough 6SN7's and variants to test. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Incidentally, do you think you could characterize the improvements rolling the power tube makes as opposed to the front tube? 
 I imagine the back tube is less important sonically in the scheme of things but I'd like to hear your experiences.


----------



## swt61

*HOLY CRAP!* And it's going to get even better with new tubes? It showed up about 3:30 this afternoon. The wooden crate is pretty stout, I think the package could have withstood a tsunami. The pictures don't do this amp justice, but I'll post a couple more anyway. This is a truely beautiful amp. And the build quality is WOW! Right up there with amps costing 3 and 4 times the price of this jewel. I couldn't be happier! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What an upgrade from my PPA. My new tubes are schedualed for delivery on Friday. Can't wait to start my tube rollin' days! 













 As you can see I already got my Herbie's tube dampers. Have one for both of the new tubes coming.

 Listening to Dire Straits at the moment (one of my reference CD's). Will be here all night takin' in the tube goodness. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yeah the temporary stand isn't the best looking, but I need longer RCA's.


----------



## swt61

*OMG!* Just put on Emmylou Harris' "SPYBOY". Tubes + female vocals = Pure Bliss


----------



## Azure

Take some pictures of it in the dark


----------



## Fitz

Welcome to the club!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 Congrats on getting your new Darkvoice safely!


----------



## aznsensazian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_*OMG!* Just put on Emmylou Harris' "SPYBOY". Tubes + female vocals = Pure Bliss_

 

Excellente!!


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_Welcome to the club!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 Congrats on getting your new Darkvoice safely!_

 

Thanks! This is a great club!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Azure* 
_Take some pictures of it in the dark 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 OK, gimme a few minutes.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aznsensazian* 
_Excellente!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 You're so on the mark about the synergy with the K340's! I can't wait for the Kenrad!


----------



## swt61

Well my digital camera is only a few weeks old, and I need some time to familiarize myself with the functions first. The shots I just took all have heavy tracers. I'll try later


----------



## Fitz

I can't take good low-light shots with my camera anymore, some dust seems to have gotten on the sensor which gives some hotspots in long exposures. Plus it's IR sensitive, so the tubes glow bluish-white instead of orange in the photos. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I may try again to get some shots of my own Darkvoice tonight.


----------



## aznsensazian

Let me add my tooobe love


----------



## Azure

Ugh, this is so tempting. Has anybody compared it with the MING DA MC-66AE? It's a mere $188 for this amp from cattylink. Gah, I want to try out tubes so bad


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aznsensazian* 
_Let me add my tooobe love
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






_

 

What tube is that in the back? I'd love to see what the Kenrad looks like!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Azure* 
_Ugh, this is so tempting. Has anybody compared it with the MING DA MC-66AE? It's a mere $188 for this amp from cattylink. Gah, I want to try out tubes so bad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Haven't heard it, but heard good things about it. This is my first tube product ever (in 30 years of this hobby). I don't know why I waited so long. It's like drinkin' homemade hot chocolate spiked with Baileys on a cold Alaska night. Warm, tasty and sooo satisfying!


----------



## philodox

That is a 6080 is it not?


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *philodox* 
_That is a 6080 is it not?_

 

Indeed. But the 6AS7G looks cooler than the 6080.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *philodox* 
_That is a 6080 is it not?_

 

I'm impressed philodox! I'm such a tube newbie they all look alike.


----------



## philodox

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_I'm impressed philodox! I'm such a tube newbie they all look alike._

 

I just know because I did research on all the 6AS7/6080/etc variants when I was contemplating building the bamaslama... It wasn't too impressive. A real tube afficionado would have named the manufacturer as well.


----------



## Azure

Ugh, I really want to try out this amp. Is there any way to use make the Western Union payment if all of my money is on my PayPal account?


----------



## aznsensazian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_What tube is that in the back? I'd love to see what the Kenrad looks like!_

 

Yep, its a Raytheon Uniline 6080 and the front is a kenrad staggered plates 6SN7gt(same construction as the black glass kenrad). Ill post some pics of the black glass kenrad in a moment


----------



## aznsensazian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Azure* 
_Ugh, I really want to try out this amp. Is there any way to use make the Western Union payment if all of my money is on my PayPal account?_

 

You can withdrawal your money out of paypal into your bank account and pay western union from there no?


----------



## Azure

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aznsensazian* 
_You can withdrawal your money out of paypal into your bank account and pay western union from there no?_

 

My PayPal account is attached to a credit card


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Azure* 
_My PayPal account is attached to a credit card 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 I just sent an e-mail to Western Union to ask if you can use your PayPal account. My guess is no, but you never know. Also it might be worth e-mailing JianLiu ljra2@hotmail.com to ask if he would take a PayPal payment. He may not know about PayPal. Use easy language to get your message across.


----------



## Azure

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_I just sent an e-mail to Western Union to ask if you can use your PayPal account. My guess is no, but you never know. Also it might be worth e-mailing JianLiu ljra2@hotmail.com to ask if he would take a PayPal payment. He may not know about PayPal. Use easy language to get your message across._

 

I've been talking to him about my situation. He tried to set up a PayPal account but said that it was "too difficult" and that he can't "register successfully."


----------



## Bosk

Congrats swt61, it sounds like you're in tube heaven. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 More pics please!!!


----------



## Bosk

Oh hey, one question I've been meaning to ask-

 Who's signature is that on the front panel of the amp?


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Azure* 
_I've been talking to him about my situation. He tried to set up a PayPal account but said that it was "too difficult" and that he can't "register successfully."_

 

Yeah, PayPal has some separate system just for China. The Chinese seller I bought mine from on eBay had a PayPal account registered in Canada to use as a proxy.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bosk* 
_Congrats swt61, it sounds like you're in tube heaven. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 More pics please!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks! I'm in heaven! 
 My cam is on the charger.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bosk* 
_Who's signature is that on the front panel of the amp? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Amar Bose 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry, couldn't resist.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Azure* 
_I've been talking to him about my situation. He tried to set up a PayPal account but said that it was "too difficult" and that he can't "register successfully."_

 

I guess your next step would be to convince someone to send the $ via Western Union and transfer the money from your PayPal account into theirs.


----------



## Fitz

Ok, I managed to hold the camera steady enough for 1/3 second shots. The tubes dont really glow that colour, my camera is just IR sensitive.






 Bow before us, for we are tube


----------



## Bosk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_Amar Bose 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## Bosk

Nice Shots Fitz .
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Do you find the tube dampeners make much difference btw?


----------



## swt61

Looks great Fitz! Got the Herbie's Tube Damper love too huh? 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bosk* 
_Do you find the tube dampeners make much difference btw?_

 

Not sure yet, I haven't listened without 'em. I heard the Kenrad I ordered tended to be microphonic, so I didn't want to take any chances.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bosk* 
_Nice Shots Fitz .
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Do you find the tube dampeners make much difference btw?_

 

Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm definitely impressed with what the dampers did for the Tung-Sol when using the W5000s. A highly microphonic tube and low impedance headphones seemed to be a recipe for disaster, as even with my mod in place it still had some hum and glare before the dampers. There's very little, if any, of a difference for high impedance headphones and less microphonic tubes though.


----------



## Bosk

I think I'll hold off buying some of his tube dampeners unless I have microphonics problems myself, but I am already using his CD mats to great effect - they noticably reduce glare and harshness. I've also got a bunch of his Tenderfeet and I'll probably try using some with the Darkvoice to see if they make any difference.

 Lord knows it's possible to go overboard on spending when it comes to vibration tweaks - he even sells interconnect dampeners!


----------



## aznsensazian

Here are some more pics of tube love on the darkvoice.
 Kenrad black glass 6SN7gt




 More Kenrad Glory Shots




 RCA grey glass vt-231




 One more shot


----------



## Bosk

Lovely collection of closeups aznsensazian, thanks for posting.


----------



## Azure

So, these are shipping now regardless of 110 or 220 volts?

  Quote:


 Hi,
 If you order 110v or 220v, we could send it right now, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 JianLiu


----------



## hyamaiata

I'm interested in buying this amp and replacing the stock tubes seems like a must to get the best sound quality. My budget for the tubes is a little tight, hardly $20 for each one. It seems that for the front tube, the 6SN7 EH is good and for the back, either the 6080 or 6AS7G. Which is better for the back? Can I get some good tubes for this budget or should I save my money and wait until I can afford more expensive tubes? This amp is going to be used with a Zhaolu D2A and a K 701.

 Thanks.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hyamaiata* 
_I'm interested in buying this amp and replacing the stock tubes seems like a must to get the best sound quality. My budget for the tubes is a little tight, hardly $20 for each one. *It seems that for the front tube, the 6SN7 EH is good* and for the back, either the 6080 or 6AS7G. Which is better for the back? Can I get some good tubes for this budget or should I save my money and wait until I can afford more expensive tubes? This amp is going to be used with a Zhaolu D2A and a K 701.

 Thanks._

 






 Who told you the Electro-Harmonix worked well in the Darkvoice? So far nobody's gotten it to work without extremely loud hum.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hyamaiata* 
_I'm interested in buying this amp and replacing the stock tubes seems like a must to get the best sound quality. My budget for the tubes is a little tight, hardly $20 for each one. It seems that for the front tube, the 6SN7 EH is good and for the back, either the 6080 or 6AS7G. Which is better for the back? Can I get some good tubes for this budget or should I save my money and wait until I can afford more expensive tubes? This amp is going to be used with a Zhaolu D2A and a K 701.

 Thanks._

 

The stock tubes will keep you smilin' 'til you can get replacements. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 You can find tubes on ebay at reasonable prices. I have to say it's a really nice match with my Zhaolu D2C. As far as which tubes to get, that depends on what headphones you'll be using. For instance my K340's could use a touch more bass impact, so I ordered a Kenrad black glass 6SN7gt like aznsensazian's. He has the K340's and recommended this tube to me.
 This amp would be a great match with the K701 IMO. I think you can find some nice tubes in the $20.00 neighborhood, but you'll need to shop around for a little while.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Azure* 
_So, these are shipping now regardless of 110 or 220 volts?_

 

He must have anticipated more U.S. sales and had one or two extra converted.


 Really nice pics aznsensazian!


----------



## swt61

I thought that tube amps were supposed to give up some detail? I'm not finding that to be the case at all. I'm hearing all the detail topped off by warm enveloping velvety richness. In other words where's the trade off? Why have I been so stubborn so long! I'm like a little kid re-discovering all my old toys (albums).


----------



## Azure

He now has a PayPal account


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Azure* 
_He now has a PayPal account 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hey awesome! That solves your problem and will also make it easier on others wanting to order one.


----------



## J-Pak

Very nice pictures everyone. Looks like a hell of an amp, would love to hear it with the RS-1


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *J-Pak* 
_Very nice pictures everyone. Looks like a hell of an amp, would love to hear it with the RS-1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm taking mine to the Dallas meet on the 8th of July. Anyone wanting to attend can give it a listen.


----------



## Azure

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_Hey awesome! That solves your problem and will also make it easier on others wanting to order one._

 

I spent my money on music CDs thinking that he'd never get a PayPal account up and working. Based on his replies I was under the impression that he gave up on getting the PayPal account up as it was too much of a hassle 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm trying to find everything that I don't need anymore to sell now. Hopefully I can get the money back again


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Azure* 
_I spent my money on music CDs thinking that he'd never get a PayPal account up and working. Based on his replies I was under the impression that he gave up on getting the PayPal account up as it was too much of a hassle 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm trying to find everything that I don't need anymore to sell now. Hopefully I can get the money back again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

LOL, I've been there buddy!


----------



## Aethelred

Can anyone compare sound quality of stock Darkvoice with stock Woo 3 or possibly X-cans v3?
 I was never buying audio equipment without audition but out of these 3 I had a chance to try only X-Can and with AKG501 I was not impressed /brand new though/
 Is Woo worth extra 200 USD?


----------



## Azure

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_LOL, I've been there buddy! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah, I should get pretty close to it if someone buys my Karma and I can cancel one or my music CDs order. Right now I have $82.75 and I'm going to keep track of this in my sig


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Azure* 
_Yeah, I should get pretty close to it if someone buys my Karma and I can cancel one or my music CDs order. Right now I have $82.75 and I'm going to keep track of this in my sig 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Cool idea. I'll be watching.


----------



## rex0x0

I'm considdering one, I was looking at the this and the ld2 (if the darkvoice was still available at $250 I would just buy one and try it.) I looking through the thread and did a search but I didn't find any impressions of grados with this amp--tho I imagine I'll find the ones I missed 2 seconds after I post. So I guess does any one have grado+darkvoice impressions6


----------



## Fitz

I just got done machining the front panel and wiring in a switch to toggle on or off the bypass cap mod I added. There's plenty of room for the switch, but getting the caps, resistors, and wires in place in the front of the amp was tougher than I expected. I had to reposition some of the existing resistors to get it to fit right. But I fired it up a few minutes ago (with the stock tubes just in case of a dramatic malfunction), and it still *WORKS!*

 I'm going to leave it running on the workbench for a while tonight just to be sure, then I'll bring it back in and put the good tubes in to give it a whirl.

 Anybody got any other ideas on things to mod on my Darkvoice?


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_I just got done machining the front panel and wiring in a switch to toggle on or off the bypass cap mod I added. There's plenty of room for the switch, but getting the caps, resistors, and wires in place in the front of the amp was tougher than I expected. I had to reposition some of the existing resistors to get it to fit right. But I fired it up a few minutes ago (with the stock tubes just in case of a dramatic malfunction), and it still *WORKS!*

 I'm going to leave it running on the workbench for a while tonight just to be sure, then I'll bring it back in and put the good tubes in to give it a whirl.

 Anybody got any other ideas on things to mod on my Darkvoice? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm always so impressed by people that can DIY electrical stuff. I just don't know enough about it. I can make you anything out of wood however. Please show some pics and tell me more about what the mod accomplishes. It sounds really cool!


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_I'm always so impressed by people that can DIY electrical stuff. I just don't know enough about it. I can make you anything out of wood however. Please show some pics and tell me more about what the mod accomplishes. It sounds really cool!_

 

It's really not that difficult in the case of the Darkvoice, because of its very simple design and easy access to all the parts. I'm not big into modding on compact PCB layouts for instance. Now that I can easily switch it on or off I'll try to get some impressions put together over the next few days as I listen and compare. The original intent of the mod was to reduce some of the hum & noise I was picking up on the Tung-Sol through the AC heater supply and case vibrations, but it has an effect on the sound that I find really enjoyable in some ways and not as much in others.

 I've already put it back in my main system so I can't get any internal pictures (and it's not my prettiest soldering work either, so I'm not in a rush to show it off 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), but here's a picture of the front panel itself:





 It's not as smooth as the power switch's hole, but it does look a lot better in person than in that picture. Plus the new switch is smaller than the power switch, so it isn't easily confused with the power switch.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_It's really not that difficult in the case of the Darkvoice, because of its very simple design and easy access to all the parts. I'm not big into modding on compact PCB layouts for instance. Now that I can easily switch it on or off I'll try to get some impressions put together over the next few days as I listen and compare. The original intent of the mod was to reduce some of the hum & noise I was picking up on the Tung-Sol through the AC heater supply and case vibrations, but it has an effect on the sound that I find really enjoyable in some ways and not as much in others.

 I've already put it back in my main system so I can't get any internal pictures (and it's not my prettiest soldering work either, so I'm not in a rush to show it off 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), but here's a picture of the front panel itself:





 It's not as smooth as the power switch's hole, but it does look a lot better in person than in that picture. Plus the new switch is smaller than the power switch, so it isn't easily confused with the power switch._

 

The front plate is what I wanted to see anyway. Wow! nice job, I'm impressed. I thought yours looked different in one of your pics, but didn't realize it was Silver. Didn't know they were made in silver. Very cool Fitz, and thanks for the explanation.
 Steve


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_The front plate is what I wanted to see anyway. Wow! nice job, I'm impressed. I thought yours looked different in one of your pics, but didn't realize it was Silver. Didn't know they were made in silver. Very cool Fitz, and thanks for the explanation.
 Steve_

 

Thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm pretty rough with the tools, but sometimes it turns out nice.

 Mine's an earlier version than the one selling now, so it's silver and the transformer cover is more boxy without the rounded corners, plus there's a few tooling marks here and there. It has more of a high-quality DIY prototype feel rather than some expensive immaculate hi-fi kit. Of course, when it gives off that vibe, it just begs to have modifications and tweaks done on it like this.


----------



## hyamaiata

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_





 Who told you the Electro-Harmonix worked well in the Darkvoice? So far nobody's gotten it to work without extremely loud hum._

 

OK, sorry, I'm a complete noob in the tube area and I just saw someone on this thread reccomending the 6SN7 so I just searched for it in TubeDepot and that's what I got. I see you have the K 701 also, what tubes are you using right now and how much do they cost? Is there any model of 6SN7 under $20 that will work with the Darkvoice? Any reccomendations for the back tube under $20?

 Thanks.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_The stock tubes will keep you smilin' 'til you can get replacements. 
 You can find tubes on ebay at reasonable prices. I have to say it's a really nice match with my Zhaolu D2C. As far as which tubes to get, that depends on what headphones you'll be using. For instance my K340's could use a touch more bass impact, so I ordered a Kenrad black glass 6SN7gt like aznsensazian's. He has the K340's and recommended this tube to me.
 This amp would be a great match with the K701 IMO. I think you can find some nice tubes in the $20.00 neighborhood, but you'll need to shop around for a little while._

 

Thanks swt61, I think I will be good with the stock tubes to start and then I'll save some more money to get some good tubes for it.


----------



## Bosk

Congratulations on your mod Fitz! 

 I'm in the same boat as swt61, pretty useless when it comes to wielding a soldering iron, so I can only look at your modding ability with envy.

 As a suggestion, maybe you could replace some of the capacitors in the Darkvoice with Blackgates? That seems to be 'the done thing' in terms of getting better SQ out of an amp or source, though I confess I'm not even sure why more expensive capacitors make such a difference.

 Another mod that would be pretty cool would be adding BNC connectors to the back, instead of RCAs. Or maybe replacing some of the internal wiring with pure silver stuff? I'm sure you could really go nuts if you wanted to.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hyamaiata* 
_OK, sorry, I'm a complete noob in the tube area and I just saw someone on this thread reccomending the 6SN7 so I just searched for it in TubeDepot and that's what I got. I see you have the K 701 also, what tubes are you using right now and how much do they cost? Is there any model of 6SN7 under $20 that will work with the Darkvoice? Any reccomendations for the back tube under $20?

 Thanks._

 

Supposedly people like the EH in other amps, but I haven't heard of any success with them in the Darkvoice. Right now I'm using a Tung-Sol round plate 6SN7GT in the front, which costs a good bit more than $20 these days 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I really like the grey glass RCA 6SN7GT for something that can be bought under $20. There's also a ton of other old 6SN7s to choose from, if you want to look through the reference 6SN7 thread. For the back, I'm using a Chatham JAN 6AS7G, but you can really use any 6AS7 or 6080 that strikes your fancy, since it's not as much of a difference as the front tube.


----------



## swt61

UPS showed up today with my new Raytheon 6080 and Kenrad black glass 6SN7gt/vt231. What a great combo for the K340! Thanks for the recommendation aznsensazian. Yeah the 6AS7G looks sexier than the Raytheon, but it's a nice combo. I ordered a Sovtek 6AS7G to play with too this morning. I do notice a low level humm that I'm assuming is coming from the Kenrad. This is with the tube damper. But it's not noticable except in really quiet passages. I'll do more research in a bit to make sure it's the Kenrad. The bass with this combo rocks!


----------



## echo1

I have 2 Rca 6sn7gt. One hums with the darkvoice, one doesnt. Also I have a ken rad v-231 clear glass that doesnt hum at all. I am going to go to a repairman tommorrow and see what he comes up with for converting the heaters to DC. I do have a power supply that puts out 10 amps and 13.6 volt that I no longer use for a 2 meter ham radio. I may use it as a seperate power supply just to heat the heaters. I will know more after he takes a gander. Also there is a interesting article here--http://www.tubecad.com/july2000/ with a subtopic here http://www.tubecad.com/july2000/page7.html about hum and heaters.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_I have 2 Rca 6sn7gt. One hums with the darkvoice, one doesnt. Also I have a ken rad v-231 clear glass that doesnt hum at all. I am going to go to a repairman tommorrow and see what he comes up with for converting the heaters to DC. I do have a power supply that puts out 10 amps and 13.6 volt that I no longer use for a 2 meter ham radio. I may use it as a seperate power supply just to heat the heaters. I will know more after he takes a gander. Also there is a interesting article here--http://www.tubecad.com/july2000/ with a subtopic here http://www.tubecad.com/july2000/page7.html about hum and heaters._

 

I have to admit it's a bit over my head, but I'm interested in what you find out.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_I have 2 Rca 6sn7gt. One hums with the darkvoice, one doesnt. Also I have a ken rad v-231 clear glass that doesnt hum at all. I am going to go to a repairman tommorrow and see what he comes up with for converting the heaters to DC. I do have a power supply that puts out 10 amps and 13.6 volt that I no longer use for a 2 meter ham radio. I may use it as a seperate power supply just to heat the heaters. I will know more after he takes a gander. Also there is a interesting article here--http://www.tubecad.com/july2000/ with a subtopic here http://www.tubecad.com/july2000/page7.html about hum and heaters._

 

Hmmm.. an external DC supply for the heaters that can also run 12SN7s.. that's definitely something I may have to try out. Thanks for the idea!

 I've been thinking on how to add a DC supply inside the Darkvoice using the existing transformer, but just haven't been able to come up with anything satisfactory. An external one would definitely be much easier to accomplish, and most likely work better too, but I'd still prefer to come up with something that'd work inside the existing chassis. The 6AS7 makes it a little trickier since it wants 2.5A as opposed to just 0.6A for the 6SN7.


----------



## KevC

Pretty much about to pick up this one.

 I'm wondering if my source is good enough though. I know there's a camp where "source is king". I don't have that many CDs but my favourite music is on there. I have an old PCDP with a line out that I can use, and it seems fine for now. However, I've never had anything better than a PA2V2 so this amp may be super revealing.

 I also sometimes use an iPod line out and listen to 192kbp AACs.

 Are you guys hooking up crazy SACD/DVD-A transports, and DACs to this amp? I don't have much money right now but it seems like a good deal.

 Maybe to improve my source, I'll pick up a Foobar DAC. Would I need to rerip all my audio to lossless for this to be effective?

 I know I need to decide all this for myself, what my ears can hear... I'm just wondering how much this amp will help even with not so great sources.

 //edit: I guess my question here is:

*What sources do you use for your Darkvoice 336?*


----------



## Fitz

I'm using the Zhaolu D2C.


----------



## Fitz

Hmm.. I just finished sketching out a schematic with all the component values on my Darkvoice, and there's several variations from the schematic echo1 posted earlier (at least of what I can read on the tiny image). Would anyone with the newer model be so kind as to take some pictures of the internals on their amp? Thanks


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_Hmm.. I just finished sketching out a schematic with all the component values on my Darkvoice, and there's several variations from the schematic echo1 posted earlier (at least of what I can read on the tiny image). Would anyone with the newer model be so kind as to take some pictures of the internals on their amp? Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Here ya go Fitz buddy, hope they help.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_Here ya go Fitz buddy, hope they help._

 

Thanks a bunch!! That helps a lot. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Looking at them, the differences I can see are very minor (PSU resistors dropped from 220 to 200 ohms and with a less flakey coating, added resistor in parallel with LED, one additional output cap on each channel, and the pre-out output caps). And neither version matches the schematic posted earlier.

 I'll try to translate my rough sketch into a legible schematic sometime this weekend.


----------



## Bosk

It's a very clean layout considering how many bits & pieces are crammed into such a small area.


----------



## Bosk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_Supposedly people like the EH in other amps, but I haven't heard of any success with them in the Darkvoice. Right now I'm using a Tung-Sol round plate 6SN7GT in the front, which costs a good bit more than $20 these days 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I really like the grey glass RCA 6SN7GT for something that can be bought under $20. There's also a ton of other old 6SN7s to choose from, if you want to look through the reference 6SN7 thread. For the back, I'm using a Chatham JAN 6AS7G, but you can really use any 6AS7 or 6080 that strikes your fancy, since it's not as much of a difference as the front tube._

 

So you haven't noticed too much difference when rolling the back tube Fitz?

 6080's/6AS7's are a heck of a lot cheaper than 6SN7's that's for sure. 
 I see no reason not to go ahead and buy some of the better NOS variants out there, but if they won't make much difference maybe I should just buy some cheapie used vintage 6080's instead?


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bosk* 
_So you haven't noticed too much difference when rolling the back tube Fitz?

 6080's/6AS7's are a heck of a lot cheaper than 6SN7's that's for sure. 
 I see no reason not to go ahead and buy some of the better NOS variants out there, but if they won't make much difference maybe I should just buy some cheapie used vintage 6080's instead?_

 

I'd bought 3 different 6AS7s, but never really noticed any major differences between them.


----------



## Fitz

I forgot to mention: I've also gone and replaced the heater wires with some 16 gauge stranded copper I had laying around, with the two wires twisted tightly together. The Tung-Sol is dead silent now. I also dont hear much difference anymore for my original mod, besides the increase in gain when it's on. I need to go back and hot-glue some of the things that have been knocked loose during all the times I've gone poking around, but it looks like I have the amp nice and happy now.

 Additional modding is now a low priority.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_I forgot to mention: I've also gone and replaced the heater wires with some 16 gauge stranded copper I had laying around, with the two wires twisted tightly together. The Tung-Sol is dead silent now. I also dont hear much difference anymore for my original mod, besides the increase in gain when it's on. I need to go back and hot-glue some of the things that have been knocked loose during all the times I've gone poking around, but it looks like I have the amp nice and happy now.

 Additional modding is now a low priority. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Now if I could only talk you into going to the Dallas meet next Saturday! With soldering iron in hand! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bosk* 
_So you haven't noticed too much difference when rolling the back tube Fitz?

 6080's/6AS7's are a heck of a lot cheaper than 6SN7's that's for sure. 
 I see no reason not to go ahead and buy some of the better NOS variants out there, but if they won't make much difference maybe I should just buy some cheapie used vintage 6080's instead?_

 

I bought a new Sovtek 6AS7G to check this theory out. It looks pretty, but I don't believe it's very highly regarded.


----------



## swt61

I've been burning the Darkvoice and new tubes in. Just got home after spending the day out. Put on my headphones and no humm. The low level humm that the Kenrad black glass 6SN7gt/vt231 was exhibiting is completely gone. It was a NOS tube, is this normal for a tube to burn in and stop humming? It wasn't very bothersome anyway, but I could hear it between tracks and in very low level passages. I definately notice a smoother more dynamic sound overall from yesterday when I plugged in the new tubes. In the 10 months or so since I found Head-Fi, this is the fourth amp that I've bought to pair with my K340's. I tried a Rega Ear first, then a Dynalo, onto a PPA and now the Darkvoice. They all had qualities that I liked, but ultimately were not quite the right match for my babies. I now feel that the amp search is over. I know that's a strong statement on this forum, but I really think I've found the right mate for the 340's. Now I can concentrate on other additions to my collection. I'm indebted to all the Darkvoice owners for their help and impressions that led me to this great amp. And a big shout out to echo1 for all of his legwork in finding a supplier!


----------



## echo1

Sorry about the schematic everyone. Its what I recieved from the dealer. Thanks Fritz as I will call the repairman on wed. 5th and let him know the schematic isnt right on.
 I took my Darkvoice into a repaireman that is in Chico, Calif. and he advertises that he is a vintage tube amp specialist. I took in 4 tubes that do not hum and 4 that do.He says he will let me know after the fourth and only charges a 20 dollar diagnosis fee. I am going to try to get him to sketch out what he does and if i can I will post it.

 Well I have about 6 tubes that dont hum but now have about 8 that do. So I am really hoping he does it.

 One thing I notice is that if the tube hums, and I shut the amp off, It keeps playing the music for about 10 sec. and the hum goes away and sounds great before fading away.This behaviour is in all my tubes that exhibit hum. 
 Well I will post anything new that I find out. Echo1


----------



## Azure

Anymore high quality pictures of the amp in the dark? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm still not sure if I should bother with saving up for the Darkvoice though, especially since I already have quite a warm amp (M3) already coming. Sure, people say no solid state can come close to the sound of tubes, but I remember reading a post about how a user was surprised at the sound of tubes because of how small the difference in SQ was compared to SS. I don't think that was with a particularly warm SS either, so the difference would be even smaller for me.


----------



## echo1

YES I have some tubes that the hum goes away after listening to them. 
 I notice if the tube hum is low the hum usually goes away after listening to them awhile. My ken-rad v-231,sylvania 6sn7gt,cbs/jan 5692,all used ,had a small amount of hum that disapeared after a few hours. 
 Now I dont get worried if the hum is low level and put them on half volume for awhile and it seems to do the trick.
 But what I do notice is that if the hum is loud it will not go away. Those are the tubes that I took in to the repairman today. They are 2 national union, 1 grey glass and 1 black glass, A RCA 6sn7gtb, and a hytron 6sn7gt with a military Jan disignation on it. 
 I wish I had a Fritz for a neighbor. My neighbors could tell you how to take apart a international harvester, but that wont help me here. Bye all


----------



## echo1

Oh,no the dreaded double post.


----------



## swt61

Thanks echo1. I wasn't sure if it was a normal thing or not. I figured it probably was though. I did order a GE 6SN7GTA to try out, but as this amp is primarily for my K340's I think the Kenrad will be my main tube.


----------



## Teerawit

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Azure* 
_
 I'm still not sure if I should bother with saving up for the Darkvoice though, especially since I already have quite a warm amp (M3) already coming._

 

Why don't you ask Fitz. He has both the M3 and the Darkvoice.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Azure* 
_Anymore high quality pictures of the amp in the dark? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm still not sure if I should bother with saving up for the Darkvoice though, especially since I already have quite a warm amp (M3) already coming. Sure, people say no solid state can come close to the sound of tubes, but I remember reading a post about how a user was surprised at the sound of tubes because of how small the difference in SQ was compared to SS. I don't think that was with a particularly warm SS either, so the difference would be even smaller for me._

 

Azure you're 17, you're supposed to want everything.


----------



## echo1

I miss my amp like real bad. I am withdrawing. Echo1


----------



## echo1

Day 1:
 anxiety
 figity
 Tried to substitute the movie "The hill has eyes" 
 Now I fill creepy and figity.
 Want my amp of choice.
 Echo1


----------



## Fitz

Gyahh.. I just had to be watching an awful movie instead of keeping up on this thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 About noisy tubes playing cleanly for a few seconds after power off. This is because once you've flipped the switch, you disconnect the transformer and completely eliminate the 60Hz hum from the entire circuit, but the power supply capacitors still have more than enough power stored to keep the sound going until the tubes cool off. The heaters are powered directly off the transformer, so once the power is off they immediately begin to cool off.

 Like echo1, I've also noticed that NOS tubes or ones that have been sitting for a long time will often have a small amount of hum until they've been burned in a couple hours. Even the stock tubes did the same thing when I first got mine. Loud humming is the result of a bad tube, or just a tube that doesn't play nice with the circuit. The Electro-Harmonix 6SN7 is a good example of this; I've tried two different ones and let both burn in a few dozen hours with no reduction in hum at all. The Tung-Sol RP I'm using now originally had a moderate amount of hum that only went down a small amount after some burn-in, but has disappeared completely now after all the mods. I wish I still had one of the EH tubes in my possession to see if any of these mods would have an effect on it as well.

 I already have a schematic sketched out on paper with all the component values (except for the pre-out caps on the newer Darkvoices), I just need to draw it up on the computer. I think the other schematic is another amp the Darkvoice is originally based on, since the general topology is mostly the same, and the differences lie mainly in the component values.

 I'm starting to think I may have to make a parts order sometime just to continue playing around with changes to the Darkvoice, even though I've got mine working just fine. I've got a few ideas kicking around for whenever I want to play with the insides of mine... Add preamp outputs like on the newer Darkvoices, change/upgrade the various components (volume control, output caps, etc), replace some wiring with stranded wire so it can be moved around more easily for modding, add additional tone controls besides my first mod, and probably a lot more ideas as I keep looking at the internals. I think in only a matter of weeks there will be more replacement parts than original parts.

 Unlike some source/amp mods, this is more out of sheer fun and curiosity than seeking SQ improvements.


----------



## DennyL

I am in the UK and I have just received my DarkVoice 336. I ordered it on 5th June, I was emailed on 23rd telling me it had been shipped (no tracking number) and to expect it in 3 - 4 days, and it was delivered in London on 28th. The shipper was 'Sinotrans Express'. It was marked as 'Sample of Amplifier' of value USD300, marked as 'No Commercial Value'. What all this amounts to I don't know. I have not as yet paid any VAT or any other charges other than the USD280 that I initially sent by Western Union. I have heard that some courriers don't ask for VAT on the doorstep, but subsequently send an invoice, so I shall see.

 It arrived in a nailed-up wooden crate, and it took me a good half-hour to open it carefully. I'm pleased I had a stout screwdriver to prize gaps open and some pincers, as there are a lot on nails!

 The crate contains 1) the DarkVoice, 2) the two valves (tubes), 3) the instructions in Chinese, 4) the power connector with a plug not usable in the UK, but I have plenty of suitable mains leads that fit the IEC socket on the back of the DarkVoice.

 When I ordered the DarkVoice I specified that it be suitable for UK mains voltage of 240V. but it is marked as 220V. There are debates in other hi-fi forums about the wisdom of using Chinese 220v equipment on 240v UK mains power, as the components could be over-run by the higher voltage, shortening their lives. I am aware that generally power, and maybe ageing rate, is proportional to the square of the voltage. I have an un-calibrated voltage meter connected to my mains at the moment and it is displaying 234v.

 I'm new to headphone listening, but not to high-quality sound reproduction, I have AKG K501s and several other cheaper Sennheisers (PX100 and CX300), and I got a Rockhopper Pimeta about two months ago, which I think is quite good driving the 501s. So as you see this site is beginning to drain my wallet. There are no problems with the DarkVoice as it seems to work fine, but obviously it much too soon for me to comment on its sound quality, which seems very good so far. I can hear no hum or noise with the 501s.


----------



## swt61

Yeah that crate took a little bit of work to get into. I kept trying to pry it without breaking the thin luan plywood and risk damaging the amp. I was impressed at all the foam too. I also recieved a 220v power cord with mine and it's not marked 110v. That's just because as of yet they don't convert many amps I think. The power cord is just there because that's how they pack all the units. echo1 told me his came the same way. Sinotrans was the original carrier to the U.S. too, but at some point they handed off to D.H.L.
 My amp never had any trace of humm with the stock tubes either. And after a bit of burn in the new tubes are quiet as a mouse. You will want to change those tubes at some point though. The stock Chinese tubes are easily bettered with as little as $40.00 U.S.
 Congrats on your new Darkvoice! I'm lovin' mine!


----------



## Bosk

Congrats on receiving your Darkvoice DennyL. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm looking forward to hearing your impressions once it's undergone some burn in. Incidentally what sort of source are you using?


----------



## DennyL

Quote:


 Incidentally what sort of source are you using? 
 

OK. I've filled out my signiature now.


----------



## echo1

Day 2
 The sweats started today,dont know if its because its 100 digrees or amp withdrawil.
 This is worst than I thought, found myself watching and "listening" at the same time to my wifes home shopping channel.
 I think I will get a 6 pack and try to make some interconnects to take the edge off.


----------



## Fitz

I just threw this together... it's for one channel and includes my mod and the new version additions:





 Edit: Just noticed the resistors to ground on the pre-out... fixed image.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_Day 2
 The sweats started today,dont know if its because its 100 digrees or amp withdrawil.
 This is worst than I thought, found myself watching and "listening" at the same time to my wifes home shopping channel.
 I think I will get a 6 pack and try to make some interconnects to take the edge off._

 

You're gonna get through this echo1, but you can't do it on your own. Find an HA meeting and get a sponsor quick! Remember buddy it's one day at a time.


----------



## Computersmith

That is one seriously beautiful piece of equipment, congrats.


----------



## Fitz

Ok.. I really posted that image at around 8PM, not 4PM, just so you don't think you somehow missed it earlier.


----------



## Aethelred

Price for me is 299 USD but this is not an August as rumour has it...But anyway still hasitating either go with Darkvoice or well know Woo 3 - anyone compared those two?


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_Ok.. I really posted that image at around 8PM, not 4PM, just so you don't think you somehow missed it earlier. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It's happened to me too. We're limping along here I think. I've had to manualy log in twice now. They'll get the bugs out.


----------



## Bosk

That's a nice range of sources you have there DennyL. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Funny too, because I was considering a Shanling T-80 myself before buying my DAC60. Looks like a really smart, well-built piece of equipment.


----------



## swt61

My Sovtek 6AS7G showed up today. I really can't tell a difference from my Raytheon 6080. But it sure looks pretty! 

 How are you hangin' in there echo1?


----------



## Bosk

How does the Sovetk compare with the stock Chinese tube swt61?


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bosk* 
_How does the Sovetk compare with the stock Chinese tube swt61?_

 

To be honest I don't hear much difference. There's a huge difference in the front tube, but the power tube differences are very subtle. I do think I like the Sovtek better than the stock tube, but it's just minor difference. The Sovtek vs. the Raytheon 6080 is pretty much a toss up.


----------



## echo1

Ya I am hanging in there.Tomorrow I get to talk to the tube superhero. Thanks


----------



## hyamaiata

echo1, the links you provided in the first page don't seem to work for me, do you know if there's any dealer in Beijing o Hong Kong who carries the Darkvoice?

 Thanks.


----------



## headphonejunkie

A group buy would be something I would be serious about too. I would like a nice tube amp starter that is under three hundred dollars.


----------



## pentagonwizard

i'd be into a group buy also. someone should look into this.


----------



## DennyL

Quote:


 i'd be into a group buy also. someone should look into this. 
 

I thought someone on this forum did put this to Jian Liu and he wasn't able to offer a discount.


----------



## echo1

75.00 dollars(cough,cough)to twist the heater wires together. It helped some but others still hum. I have 4 tubes, 3 are national union grey and black glass and 1 hytron jan tube. I will mail them to anyone who wants to try them out.It may just be dc voltage issue. I hate to throw them away.
 I have several tubes now that work well with the amp so I am happy.Here is my final list.
 CBS\JAN 5692
 HYTRON 6SN7GT
 CBS\HYTRON 6SN7GT
 RCA DARK GREY GLASS 6SN7GT V-231-YR1945
 RCA SMOKE GLASS 6SN7GT
 RCA 6SN7GT CLEAR GLASS
 KEN RAD 6SN7GT V-231
 SYLVANIA 6SN7GT
 UNITED ELECTRONICS 6AS7G
 RCA 6AS7G

 I know there are more, but baring one heck of a deal I cant resist, I am through tube buying.
 Which one is my favorite? I am leaning toward the RCA v-231 6sn7gt.But not one of them sounds bad.


----------



## Epoch

Is it running AC to the heaters? If so, its probably an ugly solution, but regulated DC for the heaters might remove hum.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_75.00 dollars(cough,cough)to twist the heater wires together. It helped some but others still hum. I have 4 tubes, 3 are national union grey and black glass and 1 hytron jan tube. I will mail them to anyone who wants to try them out.It may just be dc voltage issue. I hate to throw them away.
 I have several tubes now that work well with the amp so I am happy.Here is my final list.
 CBS\JAN 5692
 HYTRON 6SN7GT
 CBS\HYTRON 6SN7GT
 RCA DARK GREY GLASS 6SN7GT V-231-YR1945
 RCA LIGHT GREY(ALLMOST SEE THROUGH)6SN7GT
 RCA 6SN7GT CLEAR GLASS
 KEN RAD 6SN7GT V-231
 SYLVANIA 6SN7GT
 UNITED ELECTRONICS 6AS7G
 RCA 6AS7G
 Oops, I allmost forgot, I have 1 tube still coming. A tung-sol mouse ear 6sn7gt. If it works I will add to this list.
 I know there are more, but baring one heck of a deal I cant resist, I am through tube buying.
 Which one is my favorite? I am leaning toward the RCA v-231 6sn7gt.But not one of them sounds bad._

 







 So he did exactly one of the things I did to my own Darkvoice. Actually I completely replaced the heater wires as well as twisting them together. Helped a fair bit actually, but I've got an intermittant hum now because I need to hot-glue some other things back down again.

 I'm about to replace/upgrade a lot of parts (ok, almost everything) on mine for the hell of it, so if you want to send a few of your worst offenders my way I'll be glad to see them through the upgrade process for changes. I can also see how they do with my original mod and heater wire changes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Epoch: Yeah, it has 6.3VAC straight off the transformer for the heaters.


----------



## echo1

He did the same to mine.He ran the twisted wires from the transformer to the heaters.
 Also fitz I will send you the tubes if you want. My email is catskinner@emailaccount.com if you want to send your address.


----------



## Fitz

Email sent, thanks for helping to assist my insane modding 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm going to experiment a little more over the next few days with some cheap components I have on hand just to see what all I want to order for upgrades and changes before I start sourcing the parts. I know I'm not replacing the transformer or main chassis 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, but everything else is looking like fair game right now.


----------



## Bosk

The plot thickens! 


 It seems that I won't be getting a THA336 after all, but instead I'll be recieving a *THA336i*.

 Here is a copy of the e-mail I recieved from Jian Liu today:


_I am sorry to tell you that manufactory will send your amp to you next 
 week. Because they are so busy recently....
 We will send you a new verion to you: THA336i, it is better than the old 
 version...
 I hope you could understand my idea, I hope you get the best amp.......
 Thank you!_


 This is further proof that Jian Liu is a very nice fellow to deal with, and that the Darkvoice people are serious about giving their customers great service!

 I have no idea what sorts of improvements the "i" version will include - there doesn't seem to be a whole lot wrong with the original version! - but I can assure everyone that I'll be posting a full review of the amp once it arrives!


----------



## LS4ME

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lolos* 
_Quote:
 Originally Posted by echo1
 I paid 250 shipped with 110 voltage and 3 day air. 



 Quote:
 Originally Posted by Michael415
 ...quoted me 280 for the amp... 



 Quote:
 Originally Posted by swt61
 ...He quoted me $299.00... 


 Why is he raising the price every single time?!!_

 

That is how chinese do business. It might be a good idea to contact the manufacturer directly. If I can get the manufacturer address and phone no.
 I can give them a call. I am fluent in mandarin. Please tell me (estimate)
 1. Quantity
 2. Voltage requirements
 3. Method of Shipments
 4. Method of payment
*[size=xx-small]NOTE: I am not in to make any money, You will pay the manufacturer directly. I will ask the manufacturer about the prefered method of payment and give you all the details.[/size]*
 Although I have no interest in the darkvoice, but I am looking for a reasonable tube amp to drive the stax Electrostic Ear speaker. I would like to know if they make an amp for STAX. Hope this helps. 
 BEST REGARDS
 LS4ME


----------



## philodox

What is different about the 'i' version?


----------



## echo1

Fitz, the tubes are on the way.Mailed 6-7-2006 3P.M.
 Also I emailed them about the AC hum issue with older tubes. I also showed them your schematic and the idea of twisting of the heater wires. Maybe this is the 336i version? I guess will find out.The tube guy said he was suprised that they didnt twist the wires. AC for the heaters is common,but he said the amps that do allways twist the heater wires and use other means to deal with the hum, for example your fix Fitz.Well bye all.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_Fitz, the tubes are on the way.Mailed 6-7-2006 3P.M.
 Also I emailed them about the AC hum issue with older tubes. I also showed them your schematic and the idea of twisting of the heater wires. Maybe this is the 336i version? I guess will find out.The tube guy said he was suprised that they didnt twist the wires. AC for the heaters is common,but he said the amps that do allways twist the heater wires and use other means to deal with the hum, for example your fix Fitz.Well bye all._

 

Thanks again! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We'll definitely need some pictures of the internals for this "336i" version to see what differences there are, if Bosk is kind enough to indulge us when it arrives 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. They didn't change the model number any when they upgraded the chassis and added preamp outputs, so anything with a new number is indeed interesting.


----------



## heathkit

OK folks I've been lurking around here a lot for the past few months, and I'm very excited about this tube amp. So much, in fact, that I just pulled the trigger on one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Jian Liu quickly replied to my email so I went through him (same seller that Bosk used).


----------



## Bosk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_Thanks again! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 We'll definitely need some pictures of the internals for this "336i" version to see what differences there are, if Bosk is kind enough to indulge us when it arrives 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. They didn't change the model number any when they upgraded the chassis and added preamp outputs, so anything with a new number is indeed interesting._

 

Can do. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm hoping the amp is exactly the same cosmetically because I love the way the original version looks. My guess if I had to make one is that they've done something to the internals to address the hum issues you've had with yours.

 Time will tell!


----------



## Bosk

Congrats on your purchase heathkit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Please let us know your impressions when the amp arrives!


----------



## Bosk

Incidentally, what are the stock feet on the Darkvoice like?

 I ask because I plan on replacing them on my amp (when it arrives) with Herbie's Audio Lab tenderfeet or baby booties for improved vibration control - hopefully resulting in less microphonics/hum from the tubes.


----------



## echo1

Well maybe I have been running heavy equipment to long.But everytime I put a tube in it becomes my favorite.I mean the differences are not a lot between them when you are comparing highly rated tubes. I put one tube and think,Hay I really like it, then I put another one in and think,hay I really like this one to. So I end up changed tubes over and over to try hear the minute differences in them.Maybe my hearing isnt what it once was.So now I am making a final conclusion.
 There all my favorite!!


----------



## gates_2

If i were to order a darkvoice, would I get the new i version or the old one? I'm about ready to pull the trigger on one, but I don't want to get one with a hum/buzz!


----------



## MrFaust

where do you order them from?


----------



## gates_2

Jian Liu


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gates_2* 
_If i were to order a darkvoice, would I get the new i version or the old one? I'm about ready to pull the trigger on one, but I don't want to get one with a hum/buzz!_

 

The "old" version *doesn't* hum with the stock tubes, nor with the majority of other tubes.


----------



## echo1

Yes I have a lot of tubes that didnt hum as you can see from the list. If you stick with them then if it does hum its a faulty tube more likely.You may want to twist the heater wires if they didnt do that. If anybody wants I can show a photo of the twisted wires and were they go.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrFaust* 
_where do you order them from?_

 

Go to the first page of this thread, and all the info is there. He now excepts PayPal too.

 heathkit wellcome aboard!

 Bosk I can't wait to find out what the differences are. And the feet are just rubber feet.

 There seemed to be a lot of interest in mine at the Dallas meet yesterday. MrFaust for one. It sounded great with a number of different headphones IMO.


----------



## echo1

Remember also that if a tube hums, a lot of the time if you play them awhile the hum will go away.If you pick from my list of good tubes,if you have problems then you will know its the tube, not the amp.But I am not saying thats all of them,but the ones I found that work fine.I am listening right now to a Tung sol 6sn7gt that had a real bad hum, but now after listening to it for a couple hours I am straining to hear it. I just sent a bunch of tubes to fitz and he will try them.If they dont hum then his mod with the switch took care of it, or there just bad tubes. I took chances on tubes on ebay and elseware that no one else would. In the long run I did save money on the total of all the tubes,for example a cbs/jan 5692 allmost new for 10 dollars,a nice sounding hytron for 6 dollars,a RCA 6sn7gt vt-231,1945, new for 9 dollars.But I might of ended up with some bad ones also. 
 I believe now I should not have posted so much about hum in the blackvoice, as now people are thinking that it is a fault in the amp.Yes they should have twisted the heater wires together, but it is easy to fix.The overall sound and build is excellent in my opinion.If any one wants a photo of the twisted wires let me know and I will post a photo.


----------



## Bosk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gates_2* 
_If i were to order a darkvoice, would I get the new i version or the old one? I'm about ready to pull the trigger on one, but I don't want to get one with a hum/buzz!_

 

You'd have to ask Jian Liu. 

 It could be that all the Darkvoices made from now on will be the "i" model, or the "i" model I'm awaiting could simply be a one-off prototype, I'm really not sure myself.


----------



## gates_2

I emailed jian... he emailed back in like 3 mins... crazy fast
 heres his response:


 Hi,
 We could offer 336i for you after several days. I don't know why the echo1
 got hum voice, in fact, the hum is due to the new tube,not the amp.
 Thank you !
 JianLiu


----------



## pabbi1

I was one of those taken by the DarkVoice at the Dallas meet this weekend - for $300 - are you kidding me? With the 6sn7 rolling possibilities, this is sweet. Were that this had been a possibility a few years back, but, along with the laconic EC-01, this is truly a great time for glass headphone audio.

 These sounded great with the recabled Senn 600 and the L3000 (shock!). Were I not already tubed up, I'd go this way, no question.


----------



## Shmuel

has anyone heard the amp with the 701's?
 any comments would be appreciated
 Shmuel


----------



## SonicDawg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_I've been burning the Darkvoice and new tubes in. Just got home after spending the day out. Put on my headphones and no humm. The low level humm that the Kenrad black glass 6SN7gt/vt231 was exhibiting is completely gone. It was a NOS tube, is this normal for a tube to burn in and stop humming? It wasn't very bothersome anyway, but I could hear it between tracks and in very low level passages. I definately notice a smoother more dynamic sound overall from yesterday when I plugged in the new tubes. In the 10 months or so since I found Head-Fi, this is the fourth amp that I've bought to pair with my K340's. I tried a Rega Ear first, then a Dynalo, onto a PPA and now the Darkvoice. They all had qualities that I liked, but ultimately were not quite the right match for my babies. I now feel that the amp search is over. I know that's a strong statement on this forum, but I really think I've found the right mate for the 340's. Now I can concentrate on other additions to my collection. I'm indebted to all the Darkvoice owners for their help and impressions that led me to this great amp. And a big shout out to echo1 for all of his legwork in finding a supplier!_

 

swt61, would you compare the sound of the Darkvoice to other SS amps you have owned? I got the K340's as well, and am currently mating them with a customized M3. Going with the generality of tube vs. ss amps, wouldn't the Darkvoice be too warm for the K340's? I have the bass heavy version, and find that with certain settings it can get a bit too syruppy. Right now I think the things I am looking to improve on the K340's are better highs and tighter bass; imo the treble rolled off can be allayed with opamp rolling with the M3, and I like that. Should I make the jump to Darkvoice?


----------



## heathkit

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_heathkit wellcome aboard!_

 

Thanks swt61. 

 So far the communication with JianLiu has been very good. He emailed to thank me for the order, and I got another email confirming that the payment through Paypal was accepted.


----------



## MrFaust

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shmuel* 
_has anyone heard the amp with the 701's?
 any comments would be appreciated
 Shmuel_

 

I was at the Dallas meet and got to listen to this amp with the AKG K701's

 absolutely amazing!!! So much so that They have become my next to order headphones. As well as the amp itself. I had never listened to any akg heaphones before. But the presentation from this amp and headphones blew me away. The ambience was so full and warm. I was listing to a jazz cd, not my normal genre of music, and it was like I was standing in the middle of all this jazz cats while they were recording.

 Thank you again swt61 for bringing this wonderful amp to the meet!


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shmuel* 
_has anyone heard the amp with the 701's?
 any comments would be appreciated
 Shmuel_

 

I also listened to the 701's through the Darkvoice at the Dallas meet. I prefer my K340's, but I must say the 701's sounded really nice through the Darkvoice with the tubes I had in the amp. I thought they were just OK sounding out of some of the SS amps I listened through there. I think tubes help these headphones a lot. They also sounded very nice out of pabbi1's Wheatfield (lovely amp!).


----------



## Shmuel

just want to thank the above posters for their responses
 looks like a tube amp is in my future, though i am enjoying my sr-71
 thanks again,
 Shmuel


----------



## Bosk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gates_2* 
_I emailed jian... he emailed back in like 3 mins... crazy fast
 heres his response:


 Hi,
 We could offer 336i for you after several days. I don't know why the echo1
 got hum voice, in fact, the hum is due to the new tube,not the amp.
 Thank you !
 JianLiu_

 

That sounds like the 336i is the new version that will supercede the old 336 one. If so I'd suggest that anyone thinking of ordering a Darkvoice make a point of asking Jian Liu for the new "i" version just in case they have some old 336 versions left over which would otherwise be shipped instead.

 Hopefully mine will be shipped sometime this week and I'll be able to report on what the changes to the new version are.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SonicDawg* 
_swt61, would you compare the sound of the Darkvoice to other SS amps you have owned? I got the K340's as well, and am currently mating them with a customized M3. Going with the generality of tube vs. ss amps, wouldn't the Darkvoice be too warm for the K340's? I have the bass heavy version, and find that with certain settings it can get a bit too syruppy. Right now I think the things I am looking to improve on the K340's are better highs and tighter bass; imo the treble rolled off can be allayed with opamp rolling with the M3, and I like that. Should I make the jump to Darkvoice?_

 

I'm not sure how to answer your question since I have the bass light version, and have never heard the bass heavy version. However the tubes are definately a great match with the 340's, not at all too warm. And you can tube roll in place of opamp rolling. Tube amps and high impedence headphones are almost always a good match. And this is no exception. I was able to add a little bass to mine with the Kenrad tube. i'm sure there would be a good tube combo for your version. You'd have no trouble getting your money back in the sale forums if it just wasn't for you. As far as comparing it to my previous SS amps, I find it to be a much more organic sound. Kind of like jumping from CD to vinyl. But I didn't loose any of the detail that I expected with a tube amp.


----------



## SonicDawg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_I'm not sure how to answer your question since I have the bass light version, and have never heard the bass heavy version. However the tubes are definately a great match with the 340's, not at all too warm. And you can tube roll in place of opamp rolling. Tube amps and high impedence headphones are almost always a good match. And this is no exception. I was able to add a little bass to mine with the Kenrad tube. i'm sure there would be a good tube combo for your version. You'd have no trouble getting your money back in the sale forums if it just wasn't for you. As far as comparing it to my previous SS amps, I find it to be a much more organic sound. Kind of like jumping from CD to vinyl. But I didn't loose any of the detail that I expected with a tube amp._

 

Thanks, swt61. Now I am REALLY tempted to check this amp out
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Decision, decision...

 edit: is there anyone willing to trade their Darkvoice with my M3 for a week?


----------



## Bosk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SonicDawg* 
_Thanks, swt61. Now I am REALLY tempted to check this amp out
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Decision, decision...

 edit: is there anyone willing to trade their Darkvoice with my M3 for a week? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Why don't you just go ahead and order a Darkvoice, you know you want to! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Judging by the current interest levels if you don't like the amp for any reason you could probably sell it in the For Sale forums for pretty much what you paid for it.


----------



## Jbucla2005

How does this amp compare to the MG Head OTL?


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bosk* 
_Why don't you just go ahead and order a Darkvoice, you know you want to! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Judging by the current interest levels if you don't like the amp for any reason you could probably sell it in the For Sale forums for pretty much what you paid for it._

 

Hell, if I can get my finances straight again he could sell it to me so I could use it as a preamp for my stereo


----------



## HiGHFLYiN9

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_Also he carries other tube amps such as 300b etc._

 

 Would that be a 300b headphone amp Echo? That would be pretty interesting.


----------



## SonicDawg

I just got quoted $310 for the Darkvoice 336i... Looks like some price gauging is going on here


----------



## ssuh

How's this amp compare to a stock Singlepower PPX3? $310 isn't that much less than a used PPX3.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SonicDawg* 
_I just got quoted $310 for the Darkvoice 336i... Looks like some price gauging is going on here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Trust me on this, this amp is worth way more than $310.00! We're definately talking Woo 3 territory if not better. The extra $10.00 may be for new upgraded parts. We don't know the differences yet for the i version.


----------



## roy_jones

I'm very interested in this amp, and although I understand the point that there might be a justified reason for the price increases, it is noteworthy to see the small bumps that have occured over a very short period of time. I'm not trying to re-initiate a justification of the reasons...I'm just making the observation, as others have as well. 

 It's not the same amp that it was to start with. It's now entering into a different price strata, and you really have to start to weigh the benefits of whether it's better to go for a more known solution as it starts to approach the territory of the more well known amps. The appeal of an amp like this, to me atleast, is the idea of being able to get it at a really amazing price, sort of like the Zhaolu, because you're not getting the warranty, and are capitalizing on the whole china thing. 


 Also, there has been very little talk about whether this amp puts out high current, and whether it pairs well with high end grados. Would love to hear more about that.


----------



## echo1

Well jan should realize that the heater wires need to be twisted together.(at the minimum.)The tube repairman was really suprised that it hade been missed..This is basic electronics.
 Also for Jan to disregard my email about tube hum and what I and other people have done to help correct it,and to answer other emails by only blaming faulty tubes alone when he knows better, well kinda raises my ire a little.Its not all the tubes fault all the time. If I was the only person who has had tube hum, then I would believe its the tubes. 
 It probalbly is some tubes play better with d.c. on the heater curcuit, but that is not a faulty tube, but is being incombatible with the heater curcuit.So a curcuit design change could be a fix .
 When I turn off the amp with the tubes that hum and there being feed by capacitors only, there nice and quiet. This could be a troubleshooting tip.


----------



## echo1

He did mention that he does sell other amps. But I dont think he meant a 300b headphone amp.


----------



## echo1

But all is forgiven when I put on my headphones.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_But all is forgiven when I put on my headphones._

 

QFT


----------



## SonicDawg

Here's the dillema: if I am to get the Darkvoice, I HAVE to sell my M3 to afford one, since I have not enough cash to get one straight. And I am quite liking my M3 with the K340... I am not sure if it should better the M3 in terms of synergy with the K340... I am kina afraid to make that gamble.


----------



## humanflyz

Why don't just save up until you can afford a Darkvoice, then you can decide which one you want to keep, and your M3 won't really drop in value.


----------



## SonicDawg

that seems to be the only way for now, but I REALLY wanna here what the fuzz is all about this amp


----------



## Bosk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SonicDawg* 
_Here's the dillema: if I am to get the Darkvoice, I HAVE to sell my M3 to afford one, since I have not enough cash to get one straight. And I am quite liking my M3 with the K340... I am not sure if it should better the M3 in terms of synergy with the K340... I am kina afraid to make that gamble._

 

I'd be pretty shocked if the Darkvoice wasn't a significant upgrade over your M3, but having never heard the M3 myself you'd probably best take that with a grain of salt. 

 Perhaps some of the other Darkvoice owners have heard an M3 and can chime in with their opinons?


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SonicDawg* 
_that seems to be the only way for now, but I REALLY wanna here what the fuzz is all about this amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well I'm always one for helping out a fellow Head-Fier, I'll be awaiting my plane ticket in the mail. You do have an extra cabana to put me up in for my stay right? Is Davis near the Beach? Let me know when you need my address to send the ticket (first class please, I have long legs and like to stretch out).
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seriously though, I prefer the Darkvoice over the M3 for the K340's, by a fair margin, but that's only my preference.


----------



## KevC

Can somebody please post dimensions (approx) of the amp and the box it was shipped in? thx


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bosk* 
_I'd be pretty shocked if the Darkvoice wasn't a significant upgrade over your M3, but having never heard the M3 myself you'd probably best take that with a grain of salt. 

 Perhaps some of the other Darkvoice owners have heard an M3 and can chime in with their opinons?_

 

Don't know about the K340, but with the W5000 it's no contest in favor of the Darkvoice. The M3 has a nice, unoffensive sound, but doesn't have anywhere near the level of dynamics or soundstage of the Darkvoice.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KevC* 
_Can somebody please post dimensions (approx) of the amp and the box it was shipped in? thx_

 

The crate is about 11" x 11" x 18". The amp is about 12" deep, 7" tall w/ tubes installed and about 6" wide.


----------



## roy_jones

Does anyone with a Darkvoice use Grado's?

 What sort of current does the darkvoice put out?

 Is it good for use with low impedance phones?


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roy_jones* 
_Does anyone with a Darkvoice use Grado's?

 What sort of current does the darkvoice put out?

 Is it good for use with low impedance phones?_

 

It's worked fine with low impedance Audio-Technica's and Sony's. Don't know if anyone's specifically run Grado's on them, but it has no problem putting out a lot of current.


----------



## roy_jones

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_It's worked fine with low impedance Audio-Technica's and Sony's. Don't know if anyone's specifically run Grado's on them, but it has no problem putting out a lot of current._

 


 Nice...thanks for the response.

 I'm going to be anxiously awaiting a review of how they do with RS-1's, and also, what the deal is with the whole 336i version.

 Hopefully we can get some direct comparisons with a PPX and Woo3...and whatever other tube amps it might compete with from a quality standpoint.


----------



## SonicDawg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_Seriously though, I prefer the Darkvoice over the M3 for the K340's, by a fair margin, but that's only my preference._

 

This is the most fearful words I have heard 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Oh man, I sure miss tubes.... Looks like I need to head out to FS forum for some cashing in...


----------



## DDQ

Now I need to sit back and wait. Perhaps I can waste more time by learning to spend more money on the tubes...


----------



## SonicDawg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roy_jones* 
_Nice...thanks for the response.

 I'm going to be anxiously awaiting a review of how they do with RS-1's, and also, what the deal is with the whole 336i version.

 Hopefully we can get some direct comparisons with a PPX and Woo3...and whatever other tube amps it might compete with from a quality standpoint._

 

ditto


----------



## Bosk

Great news, Jian Liu notified me today that my Darkvoice 336i has shipped and ought to reach me by the middle of next week!


----------



## KevC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_The crate is about 11" x 11" x 18". The amp is about 12" deep, 7" tall w/ tubes installed and about 6" wide._

 

That definitely wont fit in my suitcase 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks!

 Do you think it's well packaged enough to withstand airport check in baggage?

 If I open the crate, can I close it easily? Or do I need nails and stuff...


----------



## DennyL

Quote:


 Great news, Jian Liu notified me today that my Darkvoice 336i has shipped and ought to reach me by the middle of next week! 
 

I'v very pleased with my 336, but I can't wait to for reports about the 336i


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KevC* 
_That definitely wont fit in my suitcase 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks!

 Do you think it's well packaged enough to withstand airport check in baggage?

 If I open the crate, can I close it easily? Or do I need nails and stuff..._

 


 Yes it should withstand airport baggage gorillas. No you'll never get it open without destroying the crate. Leave it packed and wait 'til you get home.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DennyL* 
_I'v very pleased with my 336, but I can't wait to for reports about the 336i_

 

Yeah me too. You will open it up for us won't you Bosk? It's quite easy, all the screws are at the bottom.


----------



## Bosk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_Yeah me too. You will open it up for us won't you Bosk? It's quite easy, all the screws are at the bottom._

 

Yup, I'll be happy to post some pics of it's innards, I'm as curious as everyone else to see how the interior structure has changed since the 336 version.

 Speaking of changes, I was just sent this message from Jian Liu which throws further light on things:


_Hi,
 Difference between the 336 and 336i:

 1. The Outlook of 336i is improved:
 -Painting is replaced by a better brand in best quality.
 -The label is replaced by stainless steel which is more stable.
 -The hand work is improved so that the tiny gap is invisible. The 
 appearance is therefore more elegant and finer. 
 2. Inside packing is harder and stronger:
 -To better protect the important part, i.e. the electric output part, 
 double strong hard material is used to ensure a safer transport, which also 
 increases the cost.

 Best regards,
 JianLiu_


 Thanks for keeping us informed Jian Liu. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 EDIT: 300th post! woot!!


----------



## swt61

Well if they're improving esthetics, it must be over the top because I think it's really nice looking already. I'm guessing he's talking about stainless steal for the nameplate on top of the amp. It's really nice to see that they're consistantly refining this great little amp. Sounds like you'll have a sweet amp Bosk.


----------



## hyamaiata

How much time does this amp requires to warm up? I ask because if there's one thing I wouldn't like is having to wait an hour or so for it to warm up every time I'm going to use it.

 Thanks.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hyamaiata* 
_How much time does this amp requires to warm up? I ask because if there's one thing I wouldn't like is having to wait an hour or so for it to warm up every time I'm going to use it.

 Thanks._

 

Any tube amp is going to require warming up for a decent bit of time before it sounds its best, but you can use it about a minute after turning it on.


----------



## SonicDawg

Add one to team China-fi!!!

 Oh great, now I will have to wait two weeks for this amp to show up. And since I have just shipped out my M3, I will have nothing to listen to, but my PX100 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 I hope this is not too rash a decision, or else I will hold swt61 completely responsible for his swaying words, lol. Meanwhiles, what are some great tubes that I can start getting that match well with K340?


----------



## echo1

What did I start here?When will I drop off the front page of amplification?Am I famous? Is this my 10 minutes of fame?Will I be lost to obscurity?Have I allready been delegated there?Only time will tell.


----------



## Bosk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SonicDawg* 
_Add one to team China-fi!!!

 Oh great, now I will have to wait two weeks for this amp to show up. And since I have just shipped out my M3, I will have nothing to listen to, but my PX100 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			










 I hope this is not too rash a decision, or else I will hold swt61 completely responsible for his swaying words, lol. Meanwhiles, what are some great tubes that I can start getting that match well with K340?_

 

It may only be two weeks but take it from me it will seem like a whole lot longer! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Don't worry it will be worth the wait! Welcome to the Soon-To-Be-Darkvoiced-Club.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SonicDawg* 
_Add one to team China-fi!!!

 Oh great, now I will have to wait two weeks for this amp to show up. And since I have just shipped out my M3, I will have nothing to listen to, but my PX100 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 I hope this is not too rash a decision, or else I will hold swt61 completely responsible for his swaying words, lol. Meanwhiles, what are some great tubes that I can start getting that match well with K340?_

 

LOL! There's not a doubt in my mind, you're going to be very happy! 
 As for tubes, your K340's are bass heavy so you'll probably want different tubes than I use. I would get opinions from others that have headphones with strong bass. I love the Kenrad black glass 6SN7gt/vt231 because it gives mine some good low level punch. The RCA grey glass 6SN7gt/vt231 might be a good tube for you. The power tube doesn't seem to change the overall sound all that much, any good 6AS7 or 6080 should work well. And I'd suggest a few good paperbacks to get you through the next few weeks.


----------



## Fitz

I've just run a (long) lead from my Darkvoice to my main stereo (along with some necessary adapters) and I'm definitely interested in the idea of a 2nd one to use as a both a preamp and headamp in that system. I'm going to listen some more to see how it sounds once the tubes have fully warmed up, although I can't turn them up very loud at this time of day. How it sounds right now is very different than my SS preamp that I've been quite impressed with. It just sounds very effortless, as in quick and nimble without harshness, but the frequency response isn't quite right. Still gotta let those tubes warm up


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_What did I start here?When will I drop off the front page of amplification?Am I famous? Is this my 10 minutes of fame?Will I be lost to obscurity?Have I allready been delegated there?Only time will tell._

 

Yeah, been there, done that with the Goldrings. Nobody will remember in a month or so. The statue they erect of you will be covered in pigeon dung. And some kid'll see you and say "Mommy isn't that the guy that showed us the light." She'll gently move him along and say, "no son that's just some old man looking for spare change."

 Seriously though your research made it so easy for the rest of us. Hail echo1, long live the King!


----------



## echo1

Whats a goldring?


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_Whats a goldring?_

 

I think he's talking about the Goldring DR150 headphones. The interest sure seemed to disappear after the initial fizzle


----------



## KevC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_Yes it should withstand airport baggage gorillas. No you'll never get it open without destroying the crate. Leave it packed and wait 'til you get home._

 

Thanks! I just hope the customs or whatever doesn't tear it apart to see what's inside.

 Can't wait to get it!


----------



## SonicDawg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_Whats a goldring?_

 

the end of love


----------



## SonicDawg

So basically any 6SN7 variants will work with the Darkvoice, right?


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SonicDawg* 
_So basically any 6SN7 variants will work with the Darkvoice, right?_

 

Pretty much. The only one that has consistently _not_ worked worth a fnord is the Electro-Harmonix 6SN7EH.


----------



## SonicDawg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_Pretty much. The only one that has consistently not worked worth a fnord is the Electro-Harmonix 6SN7EH._

 

What brands are usually good to consider? I suppose all the sonic variation comes from brand difference?
 And what are the differences with various base colors, glass colors and so forth? They seem to advertise them by that feature quite much in ebay. Do they give any sonic advantages as well?
 How is this one?


----------



## echo1

Here are the ones I have used that worked.
 CBS\JAN 5692
 HYTRON 6SN7GT
 CBS\HYTRON 6SN7GT
 RCA DARK GREY GLASS 6SN7GT V-231-YR1945
 RCA SMOKE GLASS 6SN7GT
 RCA 6SN7GT CLEAR GLASS-Black Staggered Plates
 KEN RAD 6SN7GT V-231
 SYLVANIA 6SN7GT
 When you buy used tubes its a crap shoot.
 Maybe someone would like to add to the list.


----------



## SonicDawg

Looking through the 6sn7 reference thread, I believe the Sylvania V-231 should match my K340, though I am quite impressed by what people say about the Ken-rad V-231. However, they are uite expensive...
 Btw, are v-231 really just equivalence of 6SN7GT? Because I can find them to be much cheaper usually.


----------



## Fitz

The different base types, plate colours, glass coatings, getter types, etc, are mainly ways to identify specific tubes from a given manufacturer, rather than specific qualities in and of themselves. The actual construction and sound quality can vary greatly even from the same manufacturer, so you have to have some way to know which are which to find the gems.

 VT-231 is just a military inventory number for the 6SN7GT, it's the same tube internally.

 The one you posted a link to is not a bargain. One of the triodes in it is reaching the end of its life, based on those test results. You can get several RCAs in better shape for $5-$10 alltogether.

 echo1:
 The tubes arrived today. the Hytron 6SN7GT's glass envelope was shattered (the tube fell out of the rubber mesh they were wrapped in and was loose in the box), but the rest look okay and I'll be testing all of them later this afternoon / evening. I just checked the grey glass National Union, and with the bypass mod turned on the loud hum disappeared completely.


----------



## SonicDawg

How is this, then?

 Sorry for my repeated questions, because I really have to knowledge to recognize good condition tubes from those that are not.

 Btw, if the tube test results are given in fractions, does that mean the higher the number (i.e. closer to 1) the better the tubes are?


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SonicDawg* 
_How is this, then?

 Sorry for my repeated questions, because I really have to knowledge to recognize good condition tubes from those that are not._

 

That's a much better find than the first one, but I can't comment on its sound or how much its worth paying for.


----------



## SonicDawg

So I went ahead and got this one. Hopefully these are genuine chrome dome sylania's.


----------



## echo1

Ok. sorry about the hytron. There a good sounding tube.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SonicDawg* 
_So I went ahead and got this one. Hopefully these are genuine chrome dome sylania's._

 

I have a few miscellaneous cheap/weak GTs and GTBs I don't use that're taking up space. I can mail them to you if you want to give them a shot as well.


----------



## Fitz

Okay, I just got finished going through the tubes echo1 generously donated to me to test with my mod. The results are quite good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Hum/buzz, mod works:
 National Union Grey Glass 6SN7GT
 National Union Black Glass 6SN7GT
 GM Delco (RCA) 6SN7GT
 Sylvania JAN-CHS 6SN7WGT

 No hum:
 National Union Black Glass JAN-CNU 6SN7GT
 RCA Silver Label 6SN7GT
 RCA Silver Label 6SN7GTB
 RCA Red Label 6SN7GT

 I was actually surprised that half of them didn't have any hum in my system. I can only presume this is due to some combination of my replacement of the heater wires and repositioning of some of the other components. The heater wire upgrade had only a limited effect on hum when I did it, so I assume the hum was so little that it would be easily eliminated by the mod as well.

 But all four tubes that had hum or buzzing, sometimes very loud, went dead silent once I switched on the mod. The same is also true of the other tubes I had on hand when I first did the mod. And before we cause another "hum panic", a lot of these are quite heavily used, and all were specifically singled out as hum offenders, any other given sample of the exact same tubes may not have any hum at all. But if you want to guarantee yourself the widest possible selection of tubes, this is a relatively easy and cheap mod to do.

 Final verdict for the mod:


----------



## swt61

That's pretty cool Fitz. Sounds like the mod is a big success!


----------



## hyamaiata

For those of you who ordered from Jian Liu, did he provided a tracking and insurance number?

 Thanks.


----------



## echo1

Fitz,now that we know the mod is working as indended, could you post a picture of what you did?I cant read a schematic very well and if you could show were you tied in the resistor, capacitor,switch I think then I could do it. 
 OK, One for the darkvoice team?


----------



## echo1

I now hereby pass the Staff of the Honorable Darkvoice Team Leader to Fitz. Hail to the new leader!!!!


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_Fitz,now that we know the mod is working as indended, could you post a picture of what you did?I cant read a schematic very well and if you could show were you tied in the resistor, capacitor,switch I think then I could do it. 
 OK, One for the darkvoice team?_

 

Here's an old picture I took with just the capacitors:





 They're the yellow capacitors mounted across the 2W resistors, with the negative connection towards the back of the chassis. The switch isn't necessary at all for most people doing the mod, and the resistor is just to keep it from popping when the switch is toggled on and off, so its also not necessary for most people. I used a 100uF/25V capacitor, but the exact value isn't too critical (although much lower values didn't work as well), and you can definitely go with a lower voltage rating if desired.

 If your capacitor has leads long enough, you can wrap it around the resistor leads on both sides to hold it in place. Mine were barely long enough to touch once spread out, so I fed some solder onto the tip of my soldering iron, and rubbed it across one lead while holding the capacitor in place. This held it temporarily for me to solder the other lead properly, then go back and resolder the first lead.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hyamaiata* 
_For those of you who ordered from Jian Liu, did he provided a tracking and insurance number?

 Thanks._

 

He provided a tracking number, but it didn't work. I emailed him to let him know and he gave me another number that didn't work. It did however show up without a hitch.


----------



## SonicDawg

This thread still wants an in-depth comparison of the Darkvoice against other major players (Earmax, PPX, Woo3). Com'on, folks!

 Btw, is there any rubber feet under the amp? I am planning to stack it on the Zhaolu, and do not want it to block off the vents on the DAC.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SonicDawg* 
_This thread still wants an in-depth comparison of the Darkvoice against other major players (Earmax, PPX, Woo3). Com'on, folks!_

 

The Darkvoice owners don't have a burning desire to audition any other amps


----------



## swt61

Yes it has rubber feet.


----------



## Fitz

It gets pretty hot though, so I don't know if it would be too wise placing it directly on top of another component.


----------



## SonicDawg

I think my M3 used to run pretty hot too, and it seems that as long as the vent on the DAC is operating ok, there really isn't a problem as far as temperature goes. But from the DFW impression thread I can see that the Darkvoice is pretty big. I think it will almost cover from end to front the entire Zhaolu!


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SonicDawg* 
_I think my M3 used to run pretty hot too, and it seems that as long as the vent on the DAC is operating ok, there really isn't a problem as far as temperature goes. But from the DFW impression thread I can see that the Darkvoice is pretty big. I think it will almost cover from end to front the entire Zhaolu!_

 

My Darkvoice runs many times hotter than my M3 does. I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving it on top of the Zhaolu permanently without some more clearance between the two. Mine is just a couple inches shorter than the Zhaolu, but it appears the newer ones have been lengthened slightly.


----------



## echo1

OK fitz I just ordered the caps, resistor from Mouser Electronics. I will try the mod when they come in because I still have a couple tubes I saved for testing.I can get a switch from Rat Shack if I decide to go that route. I had to buy in bulk so I will have a few "fitz" mod kits available for the austonding price of free.Well Ya, I havent figured out how to get rich on 39 Cent postage.


----------



## SonicDawg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_My Darkvoice runs many times hotter than my M3 does. I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving it on top of the Zhaolu permanently without some more clearance between the two. Mine is just a couple inches shorter than the Zhaolu, but it appears the newer ones have been lengthened slightly._

 

Hotter than the M3? then it comes into the territory of the furnace that is the Little Dot II. But since I have all the equipments lying on top of my desk, I don't like to have everything spread out.


----------



## KevC

Got a 336i coming for me. XDXD So excited. Already looking to "mod" it. Besides tubes (most obvious) I'm thinking of power supply. Good clean power is really necessary for quality sound, right?

 Any suggestions for this?


----------



## heathkit

With all the buzz on this amp, I can't wait to get mine! I got another email from Jian Liu last Wednesday that my DarkVoice has been shipped. The tracking # he gave didn't work for me either. It looks to be the shipping company's web site (www.ses.com.cn) tracking feature is not functioning, in the English portion of the site at least. 

 Anyway, I expect the amp to arrive sometime this week. I'll be sure to let you all know my impressions. And, did I mention that I can't wait to get this amp?


----------



## Bosk

Today was the big day. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





























*[size=large]My Darkvoice 336i has arrived!!![/size]*



 I planned to post the pics I've taken tonight but I'm far too busy listening to music and loving every second of it so those will have to wait till tomorrow.

 First impressions of this amp are along the lines of *HOLY crap THIS AMP ROCKS!!!!!!*

 Right now I only have the headphone out of my 640A to compare it to, and naturally the Darkvoice trounces it in terms of PRAT, soundstage, impact, detail, bass, midrange presence, background blackness and in every other way imaginable. It's been a good 6 months since I last heard the Talisman T-3H I once owned but from memory it doesn't come even close to the silky effortlessness of the Darkvoice despite costing more than twice as much!

 I have about 200ish CD's and yet I was stumped when the time came to decide what to throw on to first test the amp so I just chucked in Queen's Greatest Hits I (an old favourite) and let the amp warm up for 5 minutes.

 Stock 6ASN7 in the back and an RCA 6SN7GTB in the front, (the 6SN7 that comes with the amp looks mucho el cheapo) VH Audio Pulsars going to my DAC 60, (using Sovtek 6992s) currently being fed by a cheapy 3950 clone, and stock power cords on everything. (power cables & conditioners don't seem to do much in this house)

 It's not often I listen to Bohemian Raphsody all the way from beginning to end (I've heard the song soooo many times it just bores me usually) but tonight was one of those nights. I immediately noticed the large soundstage, sweet vocals and hefty bass impact. I've been getting a very, very slight hum from this 6SN7GTB but when the music is playing it's un-noticable. That aside the background is absolutely BLACK, way quieter than _any_ amp I've ever heard thus far.


 This amp is the real deal. It is not hype or a flavor of the month, it is the genuine article.
 If you're thinking of buying a Darkvoice then stop thinking about it and do it! You will NOT be dissapointed by this amazing little amp.


 I just swapped out the RCA for a Motorola 6SN7GTB and it's about warmed up so I'm off to do more listening. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh one more thing- the amp looks virtually the same as the 336 version though I haven't yet opened it up (will do that tomorrow) but so far the differences seem very minor. Why mess with a good thing right?


----------



## aznsensazian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SonicDawg* 
_Hotter than the M3? then it comes into the territory of the furnace that is the Little Dot II. But since I have all the equipments lying on top of my desk, I don't like to have everything spread out._

 

The little dot 2 is much hotter than the darkvoice. The darkvoice is warm to the touch, but is not egg frying hot as the ld2. I wouldnt place the darkvoice on top of the zhaolu due to the darkvoice's massive size and weight. It might crush the zhoalu's paper weight chassis.


----------



## aznsensazian

Congratulations Bosk, when i first listened to mine, i knew it would be the end of all end for me in terms of amps. It really did sound that good. Wait until you have some even better tubes in there like some vintage 6SN7gt/vt231 tubes should get you going. Have fun!


----------



## swt61

It's amazing isn't it Bosk? Not what you'd expect for $300.00. Happy listening. I look forward to the pics later.


----------



## Aethelred

Anyone compared directly Woo 3 and Darkvoice?
 Can't wait to see which offers better sound for the money and which one is more transparent.
 PLZ anyone post comparison.


----------



## echo1

I cracked somehow the coating on one of these(see pict.)I can even see the wire windings inside. I am not fimiliar with these. Could someone give me a name and values so I can order a new one?Also It did not come this way
 I think there wire wound resistors but not shure and I cant read the values off the picts


----------



## echo1

It works. I used a 35 volt 100 ufd capacitor.


----------



## Fitz

It's a 200 ohm, 10 watt wire wound power resistor. You should have countless options from any component suppliers. You may want to try some that're cemented in a ceramic casing, so there isn't any potential flaking in the future.

 And congrats on the successful mod! I hope you're enjoying your amp even more


----------



## echo1

Ok Fritz, thanks again,ordered the cemented wire round resistors.


----------



## ssuh

Hmm... is it worth buying one to compare to my PPX3 Slam?


----------



## Bosk

I am very very pleased with mine. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 In my experience it's actually pretty rare in this hobby that you buy a component without auditioning it first and it surpasses your expectations, but that's just what's happened here. The fact that it's a great looking, built-like-a-tank, and cheap amp is the icing on the cake.

 Thanks must go out to echo1 who is responsible for bringing this great little amp to our attention!


----------



## DDQ

I was just informed that my 336 is on it way to America...


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DDQ* 
_Now I need to sit back and wait. Perhaps I can waste more time by learning to spend more money on the tubes..._


----------



## creeky

My Darkvoice 336i just arrived....

 It has left me Speechless even with the stock tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nuff said,
 Kris.


----------



## DDQ

My 336 has just arrived.

 Shipping is quick, but expensive. It cost 1409.95 RMB (~ $176 )

 I'll follow with my impression of the amp.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DDQ* 
_I was just informed that my 336 is on it way to America..._


----------



## SonicDawg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DDQ* 
_My 336 has just arrived.

 Shipping is quick, but expensive. It cost 1409.95 RMB (~ $176 )

 I'll follow with my impression of the amp._

 

That better be delivered by a private jet with playboy bunnies and balloons and everything


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DDQ* 
_My 336 has just arrived.

 Shipping is quick, but expensive. It cost 1409.95 RMB (~ $176 )

 I'll follow with my impression of the amp._

 

Holy crap! Where do you live? In the shire in middle earth or something?


----------



## echo1

Wow, swt61 is a desplaced Alaskan living in Texas and it didnt cost that much.I am going to be a displaced Californian living anywhere but here when I retire and It didnt cost that much. And Sonicdawg lives in Davis where houses cost like a penthouse in New York.
 Ah, Sonicdawg you wonder why I know such things?I work in Woodland.
 So why so much?Has he raised the price again or did you special order fast like lightning?


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SonicDawg* 
_That better be delivered by a private jet with playboy bunnies and balloons and everything 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

#%&@ I knew I was missing out on something when I got mine so cheaply.


----------



## DDQ

I live in Los Angeles, CA.

 I have the actual shipping receipt from China Express. I can scan and post if anyone is interested.

 The cost of shipping, $176.25 is included in the $310 USD purchase price.

 The 336 goes for 1300 RMB (~162.5USD), shipping within China is included in that price.

 Bottom line, the manufacturor and the distributor together get $133.75 for making and selling the 336. That's alot of work for $133.75.

 We should definitely have a US distributor who import by sea!


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DDQ* 
_I live in Los Angeles, CA.

 I have the actual shipping receipt from China Express. I can scan and post if anyone is interested.

 The cost of shipping, $176.25 is included in the $310 USD purchase price.

 The 336 goes for 1300 RMB (~162.5USD), shipping within China is included in that price.

 Bottom line, the manufacturor and the distributor together get $133.75 for making and selling the 336. That's alot of work for $133.75.

 We should definitely have a US distributor who import by sea!_

 






 The wood crate must definitely add some serious weight to it, because I paid $65 for shipping on mine (sans wood crate).

 And yeah, I told Wei over at iFi Audio that he should work out something for importing the Darkvoice too, but never heard anything back on that.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_





 The wood crate must definitely add some serious weight to it, because I paid $65 for shipping on mine (sans wood crate).

 And yeah, I told Wei over at iFi Audio that he should work out something for importing the Darkvoice too, but never heard anything back on that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's funny, he asked me about mine and said he was looking into it. I hope he does carry them, he's a great guy to deal with!


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_That's funny, he asked me about mine and said he was looking into it. I hope he does carry them, he's a great guy to deal with!_

 

He could even make a package deal with the Zhaolu


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_He could even make a package deal with the Zhaolu 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 A very nice combo IMO. Wait 'til you see what I've got cookin' with the Zhaolu. Should be ready to unveil in a few weeks.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_A very nice combo IMO. Wait 'til you see what I've got cookin' with the Zhaolu. Should be ready to unveil in a few weeks._

 






 You're making _more_ changes to it? It'll definitely look nice, I already know that much.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_






 You're making more changes to it? It'll definitely look nice, I already know that much._

 

Most of these changes are going to deal with the internals, but I did have to make a new faceplate to fill the empty holes left on the front. The only thing on the front will be the power button.


----------



## DDQ

More information on the package:


> Dimension 40mm x 30mm x 52mm (15.7" x 11.8 x 20.5)
> Weight = 7.5 KG (16.5 lbs)


From NanChang, China on 7/19/06 to Los Angeles, CA arrive 7/21/06 noon.


> Shipping charge: 1365 RMB,
> Additional charge 44.95 RMB
> Total Charge: 1409.95 RMB


* I realize this is not a shipping forum, so here is:

 The 336 sounds pretty good on the stock 6SN7 and a NOS GE 6080. I have a couple of NOS RCA 6SN7 on the way. I can't wait til the breakin is over.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_





 The wood crate must definitely add some serious weight to 
 it, because I paid $65 for shipping on mine (sans wood crate).

 And yeah, I told Wei over at iFi Audio that he should work out something for importing the Darkvoice too, but never heard anything back on that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## Fitz

I'm starting to think the back tube makes more difference than I originally thought. I've spent a fair portion of the night going through my stock, and tonight at least I vastly prefer the Chatham JAN 6AS7G over three different construction RCA 6AS7Gs (two JAN, one not) and a GE 6AS7GA.

 And that sure is a pretty new faceplate


----------



## SonicDawg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DDQ* 
_I live in Los Angeles, CA.

 I have the actual shipping receipt from China Express. I can scan and post if anyone is interested.

 The cost of shipping, $176.25 is included in the $310 USD purchase price.

 The 336 goes for 1300 RMB (~162.5USD), shipping within China is included in that price.

 Bottom line, the manufacturor and the distributor together get $133.75 for making and selling the 336. That's alot of work for $133.75.

 We should definitely have a US distributor who import by sea!_

 

I got quoted for $310 too!!! I didn't know that half of that cost went to shipping with A WOODEN CRATE AND NOT SOME PLAYBOY BUNNIES!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 (sorry I milked that one to death)
 Someone gotta explain to me how it racks up to that cost for shipping... I thought the 50 some dollars shipping for my Zhaolu was outlanddish...


----------



## DDQ

I have just received a follow up email from the distributor. He explained that what I saw on the shipping document was the list price, his real shipping cost while still high, is substantially lower than $174.25

 He does not want us to get the wrong impression that the shipping cost is higher than the domestic price! 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SonicDawg* 
_I got quoted for $310 too!!! I didn't know that half of that cost went to shipping with A WOODEN CRATE AND NOT SOME PLAYBOY BUNNIES!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 (sorry I milked that one to death)
 Someone gotta explain to me how it racks up to that cost for shipping... I thought the 50 some dollars shipping for my Zhaolu was outlanddish..._


----------



## Bosk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_Most of these changes are going to deal with the internals, but I did have to make a new faceplate to fill the empty holes left on the front. The only thing on the front will be the power button._

 

WOW. Is that mother of pearl? Sure looks classy.


----------



## Bosk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_I'm starting to think the back tube makes more difference than I originally thought. I've spent a fair portion of the night going through my stock, and tonight at least I vastly prefer the Chatham JAN 6AS7G over three different construction RCA 6AS7Gs (two JAN, one not) and a GE 6AS7GA.

 And that sure is a pretty new faceplate 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's interesting to hear Fitz. 

 I have a pair of RCA 6AS7's and a Chatham 6AS7 coming next week and I'm looking forward to seeing if there's a noticable improvement over the stock tube. I'm also eyeing a few 6080's on eBay right now.

 I've also placed an order for a couple of Herbie's tube dampeners for front and back tubes, hopefully they'll alleviate some of the hum I'm getting.


----------



## DDQ

I am new to the head hi field (dare I call it a habit?). I have recently purchased a HD650 (not quite broken in yet, still with stock cables), which I have been using with either a Pioneer Elite home theater receiver, or a NAD 320Bee integrated amp. The Darkvoice 336 is my first head amp. Right out of the box, the 336 is already doing better than the other two mentioned above.

 I look forward to further exploration of more equipments and mods.

 Should I honest and call it an addition?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DDQ* 
_The 336 sounds pretty good on the stock 6SN7 and a NOS GE 6080. I have a couple of NOS RCA 6SN7 on the way. I can't wait til the breakin is over._


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_I'm starting to think the back tube makes more difference than I originally thought. I've spent a fair portion of the night going through my stock, and tonight at least I vastly prefer the Chatham JAN 6AS7G over three different construction RCA 6AS7Gs (two JAN, one not) and a GE 6AS7GA.

 And that sure is a pretty new faceplate 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hmmm. I guess I should do more of a comparison between my Raytheon 6080 and my Sovtek 6AS7G. I really like the pretty tube though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . Do you think it's worth stocking up a few different tubes Fitz?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bosk* 
_WOW. Is that mother of pearl? Sure looks classy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks Bosk, It's quilted Maple on top and Bloodwood underneath. You'd swear it was all bumpy in the light, but it's smooth as glass.

 I'd make a new faceplate for the Darkvoice, but I like the stock one.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_Hmmm. I guess I should do more of a comparison between my Raytheon 6080 and my Sovtek 6AS7G. I really like the pretty tube though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . Do you think it's worth stocking up a few different tubes Fitz?_

 

I wouldn't really worry about it at all until you've already stocked up some different 6SN7s you like. It's not the same kind of difference as between those and much more subtle, but it's a very nonspecific "better sounding" impression you get after listening for a bit.


----------



## Fitz

Hmm.. I think the main differences between the RCA and Chatham 6AS7s are the RCAs are a bit brighter and more polite, but compressed in soundstage and bass extension, whereas the Chathams are much darker and richer, making them more euphonic and musical. Looks like I need to try a Svetlana or Sovtek sometime too, to see how they compare


----------



## echo1

I have listened to a Rca 6as7g,Raytheon 6080,and a United Electronics 6AS7g. I like the United Electronics for the same reason as Fitz, its not as bright as the other two.But now I have to try the Catham.
 Thanks a lot Fitz.
 Oh ya I also have a National Electronics I got off ebay coming. 
 For those interested here is a small DC power supply on ebay here----http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190010864988&sspagenam e=ADME:L:RTQ:US:1
 The following was a reply I got from him on the input-output voltages
 "Hi, 
 Yes you can use it and 6.5V ac is enough to 6.3V dc of out put. Your input current must be 1A or more for 1A out put use."
 So assuming that the Ac voltage is 6.5 average since our voltage is actually a little higher than 110 VAC, and the rated amps is .6 amps for the heater curcuit,this might do for a nice A.C.>D.C. conversion that will fit in the case.It is 1" X 2"
 Please verify this with the seller, as I am not a pro. But it seems like it would work.


----------



## Bosk

How are your plans for replacing some of the Darkvoice's components (caps, resistors etc.) coming along Fitz?

 As for me, if only I had a working knowledge of electronics my first thought would be replacing the Darkvoice's volume control, perhaps with a stepped attenuator assuming one could be squeezed in there.


----------



## Bosk

Is that a Japanese made National Electronics tube echo1?

 I recently tried a pair of their 6922's in my DAC60 and wasn't too impressed with what I heard- very thin and two dimensional sound. Still, they were very cheap tubes.


----------



## Bosk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_Thanks Bosk, It's quilted Maple on top and Bloodwood underneath. You'd swear it was all bumpy in the light, but it's smooth as glass.

 I'd make a new faceplate for the Darkvoice, but I like the stock one._

 

Well it certainly looks awesome.
 Did you make it yourself swt61? Looks like it was crafted by a professional!


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_I have listened to a Rca 6as7g,Raytheon 6080,and a United Electronics 6AS7g. I like the United Electronics for the same reason as Fitz, its not as bright as the other two.But now I have to try the Catham.
 Thanks a lot Fitz.
 Oh ya I also have a National Electronics I got off ebay coming. 
 For those interested here is a small DC power supply on ebay here----http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190010864988&sspagenam e=ADME:L:RTQ:US:1
 The following was a reply I got from him on the input-output voltages
 "Hi, 
 Yes you can use it and 6.5V ac is enough to 6.3V dc of out put. Your input current must be 1A or more for 1A out put use."
 So assuming that the Ac voltage is 6.5 average since our voltage is actually a little higher than 110 VAC, and the rated amps is .6 amps for the heater curcuit,this might do for a nice A.C.>D.C. conversion that will fit in the case.It is 1" X 2"
 Please verify this with the seller, as I am not a pro. But it seems like it would work._

 

The whole heater circuit is 3.1 amps, if you include both tubes.


----------



## echo1

I dont know where it was made. I got it because it was cheap on ebay, $6.75 shipped and NOS. Sometimes I take chances on cheap tubes and are plesently suprised. Sometimes not.
 Oh well If I dont spend it may wife will.


----------



## echo1

Uh Oh,So the back one is 2.5 amps?


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bosk* 
_How are your plans for replacing some of the Darkvoice's components (caps, resistors etc.) coming along Fitz?

 As for me, if only I had a working knowledge of electronics my first thought would be replacing the Darkvoice's volume control, perhaps with a stepped attenuator assuming one could be squeezed in there._

 

Slowly. I'm trying to get a list of all the parts I'm going to replace to minimize the amount of orders and shipping costs. There isn't really room for a stepped attenuator, but I'm going to slap an Alps RK27 in there anyways.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_Uh Oh,So the back one is 2.5 amps?_

 

Yeah 0.6A for the 6SN7, 2.5A for the 6AS7


----------



## echo1

Will 3 amps do it? I just bought a variable regulated power supply that can supply 3 amps.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_Will 3 amps do it? I just bought a variable regulated power supply that can supply 3 amps._

 

Maybe, but it depends on how well it handles being run at the limits of its operating range.


----------



## echo1

Ok Another question. Would the hum from AC be coming from both tubes or primarily from the 6sn7 front tube?


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_Ok Another question. Would the hum from AC be coming from both tubes or primarily from the 6sn7 front tube?_

 

It's almost entirely coming in on microphonic 6SN7s, the rest of the circuit is pretty quiet. But I dunno how this has changed with the latest revision that has the wiring layout changed a bit.


----------



## echo1

So could I run DC to the 6sn7 and keep the ac running to the 6as7g?


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_So could I run DC to the 6sn7 and keep the ac running to the 6as7g?_

 

Yeah, I don't see why not.


----------



## echo1

Whew, thank you.Yor mod was good Fritz, I have 2 tubes that the hum went from moderate to barely audible. So this is a experiment to see what happens.
 I think I am running into dfferent problems with hum than you Fritz, as some of the tubes I sent you were humming on mine but not yours.


----------



## echo1

Of course I could be a mile off.Oh well I could allways use it as a torture device if the tube thing doesnt work out.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_Of course I could be a mile off.Oh well I could allways use it as a torture device if the tube thing doesnt work out._

 







 Or use it to "persuade" more people to buy a Darkvoice.

 I'm glad the mod is working out for you though.


----------



## echo1

Thanks for all the help Fritz. And goodnight to everybody.


----------



## darky_mtp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_Or use it to "persuade" more people to buy a Darkvoice._

 

Where can I buy a darkvoice ?


----------



## SonicDawg

read the first page of this thread.


----------



## Bosk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_Slowly. I'm trying to get a list of all the parts I'm going to replace to minimize the amount of orders and shipping costs. There isn't really room for a stepped attenuator, but I'm going to slap an Alps RK27 in there anyways._

 

Sounds good, please let us know what kinds of sonic improvements you're getting once the new parts go in! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'd also be reallly interested in any kind of list of compatible parts you could post, as I'd love to try modding my own once I've read up some more on electronics and bought a soldering iron. I'm sure there'll other Darkvoice owners who are also pretty eager.

 Do you expect to hear much of a difference with the Alps RK27 Fitz? 
 That's the part of the volume control that's _inside_ the amp right - not the knob on the front? 
 Speaking of the front knob though, I've read over at AA that using a wooden (rather than metal) volume knob can actually bring a significant boost to sound quality. Would you agree with that, or is just more audio voodoo?

 Cheers.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bosk* 
_Well it certainly looks awesome.
 Did you make it yourself swt61? Looks like it was crafted by a professional! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes I made it. I'm a Craftsman by trade. I build custom furniture, repair antique furniture and refurbish old Victorians mostly. I'm that guy that you always hear blabbing about how he loves his job. But what's not to love, sawdust in my face and tunes in my ears, heaven!

 And Fitz, get cracking on all those new mods so we can hear your impressions. Then I'll pull out my checkbook and package mine up to send to your house.


----------



## jbloudg20

Just sharing my experience with my amp (granted its not a Darkvoice, but it is a 6SN7 with a 6AS7 output)

 For those of you using a K340, you might want to try a Tung-Sol 6080 in place of the 6AS7. I found it to be much more enjoyable with clearer highs.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jbloudg20* 
_Just sharing my experience with my amp (granted its not a Darkvoice, but it is a 6SN7 with a 6AS7 output)

 For those of you using a K340, you might want to try a Tung-Sol 6080 in place of the 6AS7. I found it to be much more enjoyable with clearer highs._

 

I'll keep my eyes peeled for one. I have a Raytheon 6080 that was recommended to me for the K340. Once I get My Zhaolu back I'll do some more in depth comparisons. As far as the front tube goes, I just leave my Kenrad black glass up there, as it's a superb match with the 340's!


----------



## jbloudg20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_I'll keep my eyes peeled for one. I have a Raytheon 6080 that was recommended to me for the K340. Once I get My Zhaolu back I'll do some more in depth comparisons. As far as the front tube goes, I just leave my Kenrad black glass up there, as it's a superb match with the 340's!_

 

They go on ebay all the time, I got my pair (my amp is balanced) for like $5 a pop.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bosk* 
_Speaking of the front knob though, I've read over at AA that using a wooden (rather than metal) volume knob can actually bring a significant boost to sound quality. Would you agree with that, or is just more audio voodoo?

 Cheers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I think I can safely answer this question. While looking nice, and I like the feel of the wooden knobs, I don't notice any significant change in sound quality, or any change for that matter. I'd call it an esthetic mod only.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bosk* 
_Sounds good, please let us know what kinds of sonic improvements you're getting once the new parts go in! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'd also be reallly interested in any kind of list of compatible parts you could post, as I'd love to try modding my own once I've read up some more on electronics and bought a soldering iron. I'm sure there'll other Darkvoice owners who are also pretty eager.

 Do you expect to hear much of a difference with the Alps RK27 Fitz? 
 That's the part of the volume control that's inside the amp right - not the knob on the front? 
 Speaking of the front knob though, I've read over at AA that using a wooden (rather than metal) volume knob can actually bring a significant boost to sound quality. Would you agree with that, or is just more audio voodoo?

 Cheers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'll post a list of the components I use once I have it done, but I don't expect the extent of which I'm replacing parts to be a simple task for the casual DIYer. The main things are the volume control, caps, tube sockets, and adding crossfeed. And yeah, the Alps will be the part of the volume control inside the amp. Right now the volume control used is mounted on a PCB, which I intend to remove.

 Adding a wooden volume knob may look nice, but what would you expect it to do for the SQ? Choose whatever knob looks prettiest on your amp, wood or metal


----------



## kool bubba ice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_My darkvoice 336 arrived today. I bought it from a factory autherized dealer in Nanchang. China. I said I would post the information once I recieved the amp so people would have a source for this amp.His info is as follows:

 Name: Jian Liu
 email: ljra2@hotmail.com
 Phone from usa: 011-86-791-809-3202
 Business name:Shan Buddhist nun 
 Address: 102 Bldg 33, Xianshi Road
 (city)Nanchang (state)Jiangxi
 China (zip)330001
 Also he carries other tube amps such as 300b etc.

 I attached a couple of photos. It was shipped in a wooden box and was shipped 3 day air through DHL Shipping Co. I need to go to Radio Shack to get me a couple rca plugs to make me a cable from my echo Indigo so I will be up and running by tommorrow. It arrived in perfect condition._

 

How does this amp compare to the EC-1/ BADA PH12/Ming DA 66?


----------



## echo1

Help!!! I am trying to find a 21 Ohm 20 watt series resistor. I have searched and cant seem to find one.
 Also Fritz, I was able to change the power supply(he had not sent it yet)to a 30 volt 6 amp variable power supply.
 I can change both the voltage and the current seperatly.
 So now I am way over what I need. But to do the tube mod(being able to use the 12ns7 and 8ns7 in the darkvoice)I need a 21 ohm 20 watt series resistor. Any help from anyone?


----------



## echo1

Well here it is. The hum is history, I even took out Fritz capacitor mod.One tube I had,an old tung-sol mouse ear that was unlistinable with a.c. is now quiet as a mouse. All tubes have more Bass,now all tubes have plenty for me.A different tone, more warm,less bright.I am now using a equalizer to turn down the Bass and up the highs.The picture shows it. Now I need a switch to go between a.c and d.c.. So I can switch between them both and compare. 
 I like choices.


----------



## swt61

Good work echo1, but when did Fitz become German?


----------



## echo1

Fitz and thank you


----------



## Bosk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_Yes I made it. I'm a Craftsman by trade. I build custom furniture, repair antique furniture and refurbish old Victorians mostly. I'm that guy that you always hear blabbing about how he loves his job. But what's not to love, sawdust in my face and tunes in my ears, heaven!

 And Fitz, get cracking on all those new mods so we can hear your impressions. Then I'll pull out my checkbook and package mine up to send to your house. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That explains it then. Lovely work swt61.


----------



## Bosk

My Herbie's tube dampeners have arrived, along with two RCA 6AS7's. Sadly the Chatham 6AS7 I'd ordered was broken during packing by the seller which was rather disappointing.

 The goods news is that with the RCA 6AS7 and tube dampeners in place the hum is now very, very quiet - so quiet that I can only hear it with my ear close to the amp, and not at all from my listening position about a meter away. It would be awfully nice to do away with it altogether, but for now I'm satisfied.


----------



## SonicDawg

Just got my TH336i. First I plugged in some RCA 6080 and 6SN7GT and I got major hum. Then I switched to stock tubes but all I got was hum as well. I am letting this think burn in for a while, hopefully this helps


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SonicDawg* 
_Just got my TH336i. First I plugged in some RCA 6080 and 6SN7GT and I got major hum. Then I switched to stock tubes but all I got was hum as well. I am letting this think burn in for a while, hopefully this helps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hmmm. I must have gotten lucky. I had no hum with stock tubes, and after about 5 hours burn in on my Kenrad that hum disappeared. I love the beautiful black background.


----------



## SonicDawg

how loud was your hum sound? Mine is pretty loud and is so regardless of the volume I set it in. I wonder maybe it is because I place it so near a computer source. But I have tried turning off the computer but the hum remains... I hope this is not a defect unit, otherwise it's gona be a major bummer for me... So much expectation...


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SonicDawg* 
_how loud was your hum sound? Mine is pretty loud and is so regardless of the volume I set it in. I wonder maybe it is because I place it so near a computer source. But I have tried turning off the computer but the hum remains... I hope this is not a defect unit, otherwise it's gona be a major bummer for me... So much expectation... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Mine was not loud at all. Then it went away completely after about 5 hours. Typical new tube hum. I'd check all of your wiring and tidy up cables and such. I also have mine plugged into my power conditioner, not sure if that makes a difference.


----------



## SonicDawg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_Mine was not loud at all. Then it went away completely after about 5 hours. Typical new tube hum. I'd check all of your wiring and tidy up cables and such. I also have mine plugged into my power conditioner, not sure if that makes a difference._

 

So it will take 5 hours of burning it? I will see about that tonight...


----------



## KevC

Yay it's done and waiting for me in HKG. I just need to go pick it up... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Has anyone tried GRADOs with this amp? I was always told that SS is slightly "faster" than tubes, but is less "smooth". However, I know you cannot just generalize tubes and SS amps just like that.

 GRADOs (say SR225) and Darkvoice sound good? Nice speed and impact?


----------



## echo1

They hum when there new. I was told to make shure the tubes are seated all the way down and let it burn in for several hours and the hum would go away. It did go away.
 Also I found out that I like best leaving the back tube on a.c. voltage and using the power supply to just power the front tube with d.c. voltage.Powering both with D.C. made it to warm with loss of detail.
 Also sonicdawg I found a lot of tubes humed but leaving them in for several hours the hum went away. But some didnt.The d.c. voltage to the heaters fixed that.And the Ken rads just became my fav. tube. They sound real good with D.C.


----------



## echo1

I said I was done buying tubes, but I did anyway. Well here goes the story. I bought two identical hytron red label 6sn7gtb, and one humed and one didnt. Go figure. But when I put D.C. voltage on them both were quiet.If you guys can find a cheap used variable power supply or have one thats around its worth it considering that the price of a tube can be more than a power supply. All you need is 6.3 volts .6 amps to the front tube only. Bye all.


----------



## echo1

I have a sr60 grados. It sounds better than anything I have hooked up to them yet, but there a bottum rung grado.Not much Bass in them compared to my Senns.But there really clear,I mean razor sharp. I hear everthing.
 But its like comparing oranges to a nuclear bomb,there both round but not in the same league.If the 225 grado sound is similar but with more Bass then they will sound good I think. But I havn't heard a top rung grado either. Hope it helps.


----------



## KevC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_I have a sr60 grados. It sounds better than anything I have hooked up to them yet, but there a bottum rung grado.Not much Bass in them compared to my Senns.But there really clear,I mean razor sharp. I hear everthing.
 But its like comparing oranges to a nuclear bomb,there both round but not in the same league.If the 225 grado sound is similar but with more Bass then they will sound good I think. But I havn't heard a top rung grado either. Hope it helps._

 

awesome! thanks! i'm just worried about tubes taking away the classic grado "SPEED" and "IMPACT".

 do your SR60s benefit a lot from the darkvoice? or not so much.


----------



## MrFaust

I'm getting so anxious for my DV-336i. I can't wait to hear how my newly burned in RS-2's and my K701's sound through this amp. I just need to do some more reading on both of the Darkvoice threads to see which tubes echo suggested. Hopefully they won't cost too much. And once again, my wallet hates swt61 for bringing his 336 to the DFW meet.


----------



## aznsensazian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrFaust* 
_I'm getting so anxious for my DV-336i. I can't wait to hear how my newly burned in RS-2's and my K701's sound through this amp. I just need to do some more reading on both of the Darkvoice threads to see which tubes echo suggested. Hopefully they won't cost too much. And once again, my wallet hates swt61 for bringing his 336 to the DFW meet. _

 

Try some grey glass rca 6SN7gt/vt231 as driver tube and some general electric 5 star or raytheon uniline 6080 as power tube. You will be extremely satisfied with its rich smoothness. Its velvety good. Try ebay for some tubes and make sure its tested good for mutual conductance, shorts, and gases. You can get them cheap also.


----------



## echo1

Ya considering that all I had was a P2a2 it sounds a lot better. But that isnt saying much since I am trying to compare a 60 dollar batttery amp to the darkvoice.My personal opinion is that the grados sound bright, and since I got the Senns they have been my headphone of choice. I like the warmer sound with the Darkvoice.So there is a little bit of bias when asking me, I am not a big fan of the grado I have.But I understand the differences in people listening choices. My dislikes may be someone elses enjoyement. So hope it helps.


----------



## bobby001

Just bought my THA 336 (in China) and I read there the original tube is not so good and for a cheap price can upgrade for better ones.

 Someonce can tell me where I can find good ones for a reasonable price. I know have a lot of different kinds of tubes but I'm a noob and don't know anything about that.

 thanks for your future help.


----------



## DDQ

One week impression:

 Stock tubes -quiet from moment of arrival
 Swapped stock driver tube with NOS GE 6080 - still quiet. however I can't hear any improvement
 Swapped stock signal tube with NOS RCA black plate, gray glass 6SN7GT - hummed (I have not given it any time to burn in just yet)
 Swapped the black plate with a used RCA redbase, sjort glass 6SN7GT - quiet, noticeable improvement over stock tubes and stock signal and GE 6080 combo. (I'm happy with the set, at least until I hear something better)


----------



## SonicDawg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_They hum when there new. I was told to make shure the tubes are seated all the way down and let it burn in for several hours and the hum would go away. It did go away.
 Also I found out that I like best leaving the back tube on a.c. voltage and using the power supply to just power the front tube with d.c. voltage.Powering both with D.C. made it to warm with loss of detail.
 Also sonicdawg I found a lot of tubes humed but leaving them in for several hours the hum went away. But some didnt.The d.c. voltage to the heaters fixed that.And the Ken rads just became my fav. tube. They sound real good with D.C._

 

How do you "burn in"? Do you mean with music on and phone connected or just leaving the amp on by itself? I would think that the hum will damage the connected headphones over a long period of time...


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KevC* 
_Yay it's done and waiting for me in HKG. I just need to go pick it up... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Has anyone tried GRADOs with this amp? I was always told that SS is slightly "faster" than tubes, but is less "smooth". However, I know you cannot just generalize tubes and SS amps just like that.

 GRADOs (say SR225) and Darkvoice sound good? Nice speed and impact?_

 

I listened to an RS1 through mine, and it was quite nice. The Melos/RS1 combo rocks!


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrFaust* 
_I'm getting so anxious for my DV-336i. I can't wait to hear how my newly burned in RS-2's and my K701's sound through this amp. I just need to do some more reading on both of the Darkvoice threads to see which tubes echo suggested. Hopefully they won't cost too much. And once again, my wallet hates swt61 for bringing his 336 to the DFW meet. _

 

The tube you heard at the Dallas meet was the Kenrad black glass 6SN7gt/vt231. I think I paid $45.00 from http://www.vacuumtubes.com/6sn7.html . The rear tube was a Sovtek 6AS7G from http://www.tubedepot.com/sovtek.html for $17.95


----------



## SonicDawg

I let the amp burn in through the night, and still it has a very audible hum with the stock tubes. Does anyone else knows what other causes can give hum in tube amp?


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_Good work echo1, but when did Fitz become German? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I guess my family made a previously unknown side-trip to Germany on their way from Ireland to America. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_I said I was done buying tubes, but I did anyway. Well here goes the story. I bought two identical hytron red label 6sn7gtb, and one humed and one didnt. Go figure. But when I put D.C. voltage on them both were quiet.If you guys can find a cheap used variable power supply or have one thats around its worth it considering that the price of a tube can be more than a power supply. All you need is 6.3 volts .6 amps to the front tube only. Bye all._

 

I've seen you on eBay lately for other tubes as well, your secret is out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. If only the Doc didn't keep showing up hovering over our auctions like bad news.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KevC* 
_awesome! thanks! i'm just worried about tubes taking away the classic grado "SPEED" and "IMPACT"._

 

If anything, with the right combination, I feel there's _more_ speed and impact on tubes. It takes away a lot of the grain and harshness from digital sources and lets the real music speed along unhampered. On what I've heard for SS the speed is usually accompanied by harshness and glare. Of course, with the wrong tubes for your tastes, it can just as easily be thick and syrupy. Depending on how I feel any given day, I like both ends of the spectrum 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SonicDawg* 
_How do you "burn in"? Do you mean with music on and phone connected or just leaving the amp on by itself? I would think that the hum will damage the connected headphones over a long period of time..._

 






 Why would it damage them? It's no more harmful to the headphones than burning in with a bass test tone playing. I usually leave music playing when burning in an old tube that needs to be waken up, so the tubes aren't sitting idle, and _*always*_ with some headphones connected.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_The tube you heard at the Dallas meet was the Kenrad black glass 6SN7gt/vt231. I think I paid $45.00 from http://www.vacuumtubes.com/6sn7.html . The rear tube was a Sovtek 6AS7G from http://www.tubedepot.com/sovtek.html for $17.95_

 

That's pretty much the only tube left that I'm interested in hearing that I haven't yet. I'm burning in a Sylvania 6SN7W metal base right now, to see if they're any good, given how much they usually go for. But I just can't seem to get a hold of a Ken-Rad for a price I like, since I always miss the boat on them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SonicDawg* 
_I let the amp burn in through the night, and still it has a very audible hum with the stock tubes. Does anyone else knows what other causes can give hum in tube amp?_

 

This is not good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Does it still do this with volume at minimum and nothing connected to the input at all? You may have a ground loop, but I'm wondering if the new PCB layout is more prone to hum, since it places components and wire paths slightly differently than before. Also try removing and snugly reinserting the tubes a couple times when you have it off and cool. If only you didn't live on the wrong side of the country, I could take a look at it


----------



## SonicDawg

I have switched from stock to some RCA tubes, and carefully inserted them, and all at no avail. And yes, the amp hums regardless of the volume I set at and with no input at all. I seriously doubt that all tubes are at fault, that it must be some flaw in the amp itself. I will continue to let it burn in for another night. But I would really hate to have to mail a brand new amp out for some issue that should have been addressed in quality control... I hope this doesn't end up to be the biggest disappointment in my hobby so far.


----------



## SonicDawg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_ If only you didn't live on the wrong side of the country, I could take a look at it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks Fitz, I will take that as the last resort before mailing the whole package back to China..

 btw, is there a simple way to check for ground loop?


----------



## swt61

Sonic Dawg, try using one of those cheap 3 prong - 2 prong adaptors. That might tell you if it's a ground loop. I'd also move it to another room and plug it in away from any other equipment.


----------



## SonicDawg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_Sonic Dawg, try using one of those cheap 3 prong - 2 prong adaptors. That might tell you if it's a ground loop. I'd also move it to another room and plug it in away from any other equipment._

 

Do you mean for me to try plugging it in without ground? I will try to see if I can find one lying around somewhere, although I think this sounds very dangerous...

 Btw, can I use a ground loop isolator kina thing? Will it kill SQ if I do?


----------



## echo1

A light bulb just went off in my head, by using the variable D.C. power supply on the front tube only I can use other variants of tubes without putting a series resistor into the heater curcuit. I think it sounds better keeping the back tube on A.C. anyway and just changing the front tube to D.C.
 Ok off to ebay for some 12sn7 tubes. But............
 Fitz please stop me if I am wrong.I will just watch a few auctions for now.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_Fitz please stop me if I am wrong.I will just watch a few auctions for now._

 

I just found it amusing that you were bidding on something, then I came in, then drarthurwells came in. It's as if Head-Fiers make up an unusual proportion of 6SN7 bids on eBay.


----------



## echo1

I was wrong. It sounds horrible!!!DC voltage causes a voltage reciprication that leads to total disentrigation of all voltage spikes causing power plant failure and a nuclear plant meltdown. Do not do this Mod!!!The feds will come looking for you!!!
 Do not bid on 12sn7's on ebay!!!!


----------



## heathkit

Mine was packed exactly like the photos that Bosk posted. I probably took half an hour to unpack it. The amp really has the look and feel of a high-end component of at least twice the price. 

 OK folks, initial impressions are: This thing sounds almost too good to be true! I've had only about 25 -30 hours of burn-in so far and using stock tubes but, I've never heard my old K240's sound this good. And with a not-very-high-end source (PC and mp3's). Dead silent at any volume with foobar player paused. I really need to try it with my CD-63SE as a source, but I'd be happy for a while just re-listening to about 5000 or so songs on my PC!

 Before I get into upgrading caps, resistors, etc. and rolling tubes, I really need a better set of cans. So far, from all I've read on Head-Fi and others such as HeadRoom, the AKG K701 might be my next 'phones. However the AT A900, Beyer DT-880, and Senn HD-595 are possible choices. I welcome any suggestions.

 On order: Chaintech AV710 soundcard


----------



## aznsensazian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SonicDawg* 
_I have switched from stock to some RCA tubes, and carefully inserted them, and all at no avail. And yes, the amp hums regardless of the volume I set at and with no input at all. I seriously doubt that all tubes are at fault, that it must be some flaw in the amp itself. I will continue to let it burn in for another night. But I would really hate to have to mail a brand new amp out for some issue that should have been addressed in quality control... I hope this doesn't end up to be the biggest disappointment in my hobby so far.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Maybe some loose solder connection was broken off during shipment. Can you post some pictures of the internals?


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_I was wrong. It sounds horrible!!!DC voltage causes a voltage reciprication that leads to total disentrigation of all voltage spikes causing power plant failure and a nuclear plant meltdown. Do not do this Mod!!!The feds will come looking for you!!!
 Do not bid on 12sn7's on ebay!!!!_

 

So _that's_ why nobody designs around the 12SN7.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *heathkit* 
_Before I get into upgrading caps, resistors, etc. and rolling tubes, I really need a better set of cans. So far, from all I've read on Head-Fi and others such as HeadRoom, the AKG K701 might be my next 'phones. However the AT A900, Beyer DT-880, and Senn HD-595 are possible choices. I welcome any suggestions.

 On order: Chaintech AV710 soundcard_

 

In general high impedance headphones are a good match for a tube amp. The 701's sounded really nice through the Darkvoice (I still prefer my K340's though). The Senns. (650's) also sounded very nice through the Darkvoice if you like the Senn. sound sig.


----------



## echo1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_So that's why nobody designs around the 12SN7. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 yep,thats why fitz


----------



## SonicDawg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aznsensazian* 
_Maybe some loose solder connection was broken off during shipment. Can you post some pictures of the internals?_

 

The underboard seems to be glued in. I wonder if I pry it open will I void the warranty.

 So far I am thinking that it could be a groundloop problem. Does anyone know a good solution against it beside using a 2 prong adaptor, which I think is too dangerous?


----------



## echo1

You could use the 2 prong adapter for troubleshooting.It will tell you if it is a ground loop problem.


----------



## SonicDawg

Well, for some odd reason, the hum went away when I use the 2 prong adapter... So now there's a ground loop problem in my setup, what can I do to resolve this? I don't feel too secure with the possibility of electrocution for touching the switch on the amp...


----------



## DDQ

Would you consider using something like this to resolve the ground loop problem:
Belkin PureAV PF40

 You can get it online for ~ $160 shipped.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SonicDawg* 
_Well, for some odd reason, the hum went away when I use the 2 prong adapter... So now there's a ground loop problem in my setup, what can I do to resolve this? I don't feel too secure with the possibility of electrocution for touching the switch on the amp..._


----------



## swt61

SonicDawg I never intended for you to use the Darkvoice with the 2 prong adaptor, just check to see if it was indeed a ground loop. Now you know the problem, as for the fix I'm not the most qualified to answer that, but I'm sure some of the more savvy guys will chime in. I use a power conditioner in my setup though, and it's worth it just for the improvement with the Zhaolu. DACs seem very susceptible to dirty power.

 P.S. 
 DDQ, Why is it that whenever I see your name I have a craving for a Peanut Buster Parfait?


----------



## heathkit

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_P.S. 
 DDQ, Why is it that whenever I see your name I have a craving for a Peanut Buster Parfait? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I was thinking the same thing except for me it's a Heathbar Blizzard.


----------



## SonicDawg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_SonicDawg I never intended for you to use the Darkvoice with the 2 prong adaptor, just check to see if it was indeed a ground loop. Now you know the problem, as for the fix I'm not the most qualified to answer that, but I'm sure some of the more savvy guys will chime in. I use a power conditioner in my setup though, and it's worth it just for the improvement with the Zhaolu. DACs seem very susceptible to dirty power.
_

 

As for the ground loop problem, do you think I can just get a ground loop isolator from radioshack? The price sure doesn't break the bank, though I will have second thought about SQ...


----------



## SonicDawg

bad news aside, I am really really liking this new amp... It totally revives the A250 from ear-piercing, thin-sounding to very well balanced and smooth, though its light sound signature doesn't get changed much, besides a stronger bass presence with the new tube amp. As for the K340, I must agree that this amp is MAGIC incarnate. It is the first time I have heard such DEPTH of imaging from my K340... The treble sounds more lively, as compared to my memory with M3... more impressions to come


----------



## echo1

Here is a pdf (adobe) article on solving ground loop problems. Hope it helps.---
http://www.blueguitar.org/new/articl...round_loop.pdf


----------



## echo1

Have you tried changing your equipment around? Like taking out the dac and just using line out on your sound card. Try using another source?Acording to the article it may be the combination of equipment your using.It may tell you were its occuring.


----------



## Fitz

This weekend I finally decided to stop being lazy and added some more parts to my shopping list. I'm definitely not going to be able to go wild with maxed out boutique parts, since my list isn't complete and I'm already up to over $140. Not to mention there's no room for that sort of stuff inside the Darkvoice anyways 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Off the top of my head, some of the changes to be made:

 High temp, high reliability Nichicon GU caps for the power supply
 Nichicon Muse KZ caps for the 6SN7 cathode bypass
 Nichicon Muse KZ and Solen SM caps for the output coupling (including a _massive_ increase in output capacitance to better handle low impedance headphones)
 Alps RK27 potentiometer
 Teflon, gold-plated tube sockets (with a much better grip on the tube, and no wiggling of the pins on the back of the socket)
 Nicer looking volume control knob
 Crossfeed circuit (components still unknown)
 Amber power LED (to better match tube heaters)

 I hope to finish the list and get most of the parts ordered in the next day or two, and be able to build in a couple weeks.


----------



## davve

how much cost the darkvoice 336 now?
 what tubes are in it? better than LD2+? where can i buy it?


----------



## DDQ

Last time we heard, it was still $310. Refer to the first post for distributor contact info. 

 Tubes the Darkvoice 336 uses:





> * Signal: 6N8P, 6H8c, 6SN7, CV181





> * Driver: 6N5P, 6H5C, 6080, 6AS7


I have not listened to the LDII+.


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *davve*
> ...


----------



## Bosk

So does anyone have any new tuberolling impressions to report?

 I'm planning on buying a bunch of NOS 6SN7's & 6AS7's over the coming weeks.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SonicDawg* 
_As for the ground loop problem, do you think I can just get a ground loop isolator from radioshack? The price sure doesn't break the bank, though I will have second thought about SQ..._

 

Hi SD

 I've been following your ground loop problem and I have a question. Since you are connected optically to the Zhaolu, the ground loop must be between the Zhaolu and the amp, right? What happens if you go analog from your source straight to the amp? Does the buzz disappear?

 Regards

 USG


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bosk* 
_So does anyone have any new tuberolling impressions to report?

 I'm planning on buying a bunch of NOS 6SN7's & 6AS7's over the coming weeks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I really liked what I heard from the metal-base Sylvania 6SN7W, but haven't done any extensive comparisons yet. Right now I'm stocking up on 6AS7s from different manufacturers to see how they compare. I've been less than impressed with the RCA 6AS7Gs, but they're widely available for cheap. I had a couple GE 6AS7Gs arrive today (thats 6AS7G, not the more common GE 6AS7GA), that I'm going to give a try tonight.

 On a different note, two of my parts orders arrived today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 Got all my low-wattage resistors, a new switch for the crossfeed, the Alps pot, and the new knob. The knob is identical in size to the stock one and actually looks pretty similar, but just looks nicer all around. It's a lot shinier too


----------



## SonicDawg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *upstateguy* 
_Hi SD

 I've been following your ground loop problem and I have a question. Since you are connected optically to the Zhaolu, the ground loop must be between the Zhaolu and the amp, right? What happens if you go analog from your source straight to the amp? Does the buzz disappear?

 Regards

 USG_

 

Upstateguy:

 Actually, after a while of fumbling and fiddling, I found out that the hum just went away on its own, and ruled out the possibility of a ground loop problem. So no hum for me


----------



## echo1

Whats wrong with this picture?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Also is there a 12.6 volt equivelent for the 6as7g 0r 6080?


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_Whats wrong with this picture?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Also is there a 12.6 volt equivelent for the 6as7g 0r 6080?_

 

You left the front panel off. And the 12SN7 isn't shiny enough.


----------



## echo1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_You left the front panel off. And the 12SN7 isn't shiny enough. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No its the red l.e.d.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_No its the red l.e.d._

 

I saw that, but you asked what was _wrong_


----------



## echo1

Allright I give up.


----------



## echo1

And I think the tube flash is plenty shiny
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 enough.


----------



## echo1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_I was wrong. It sounds horrible!!!DC voltage causes a voltage reciprication that leads to total disentrigation of all voltage spikes causing power plant failure and a nuclear plant meltdown. Do not do this Mod!!!The feds will come looking for you!!!
 Do not bid on 12sn7's on ebay!!!!_

 

And remember Amp kiddies dont try this at home. I am a expert.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_And I think the tube flash is plenty shiny
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 enough._

 

Once I polish up the base on the 6SN7W, I'll show you what shiny is 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The getter flash on it is _enormous_


----------



## Bosk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_I really liked what I heard from the metal-base Sylvania 6SN7W, but haven't done any extensive comparisons yet. Right now I'm stocking up on 6AS7s from different manufacturers to see how they compare. I've been less than impressed with the RCA 6AS7Gs, but they're widely available for cheap. I had a couple GE 6AS7Gs arrive today (thats 6AS7G, not the more common GE 6AS7GA), that I'm going to give a try tonight._

 

I have the impression that pretty much all of the 6SN7 tubes with the 'W' suffix are worth trying, as it indicates they were made to some kind of stricter military specifications. (better sound in other words)

 I'm still trying to get a hold of a Chatham 6AS7 myself, I have discovered recently that Chatham Electronics was actually a division of Tung-Sol- perhaps that's why that sound so good?

 Congratulations on taking delivery of those parts, I know I can't wait for your impressions of the difference they make.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bosk* 
_I have the impression that pretty much all of the 6SN7 tubes with the 'W' suffix are worth trying, as it indicates they were made to some kind of stricter military specifications. (better sound in other words)_

 

But I absolutely hate the Sylvania 6SN7WGT.


----------



## swt61

I can't wait to hear your impressions of your upgraded Darkvoice Fitz, can I help pay for faster shipping of the parts?


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_I can't wait to hear your impressions of your upgraded Darkvoice Fitz, can I help pay for faster shipping of the parts? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

LOL. I was just starting to type out a reply when two more UPS packages showed up. All that's left now is the new soldering station I got to replace my worn out soldering iron (cross-country UPS ground), and the tube sockets (international from HK), both of which will probably be here early next week.





 Featured in this set are the Ohmite wire-wound power resistors, Nichicon power supply capacitors, more heatshrink than any ordinary man can use, an orange LED, mini-fuses and fuse holders, Solen film & foil caps for crossfeed and bypass, and quite a lot of Nichicon Muses for cathode bypass and output coupling (I _did_ say a massive increase in output capacitance for low impedance headphones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). It's going to be a bit of an artform getting it all to fit inside, but I've already come up with some ideas 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just hope it doesn't end up sounding _worse_ after I do all this (and spent so much money 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 I'm such a pessimist sometimes


----------



## echo1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_Once I polish up the base on the 6SN7W, I'll show you what shiny is 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The getter flash on it is enormous_

 

I will follow your lead, Oh leader.
 But If I may ask a question of your honorable sir of the bright flashes, if you change the values of the output coupling capacitors will it change the values of the other components?Or will they stay the same.
 Also will the alps pot fit into the same holes in the curcuit board as the original?
 Thank you


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_I will follow your lead, Oh leader.
 But If I may ask a question of your honorable sir of the bright flashes, if you change the values of the output coupling capacitors will it change the values of the other components?Or will they stay the same.
 Also will the alps pot fit into the same holes in the curcuit board as the original?
 Thank you_

 

Changing the output caps has no effect on the other components at all. Running the numbers, the ones in it now are _way_ too small to properly handle low impedance headphones, and could still be better for high impedance headphones (hence why they crammed an extra pair of 10uFs in when they switched to the black chassis). But after the massive increase, it'll bring the corner frequency for 40ohms (the W5000) down to about 3Hz, pushing any phase shifts and other distortions out of the audible range. Amusing note: it'll also bring the corner frequency for 300ohms down to 0.4Hz, _well_ past the 2Hz "ideal".

 And I'm completely removing the PCB that the existing pot is mounted on. I'll be air-wiring directly to the pins on the Alps. I'll take a look to see if it might fit on the PCB when I take it open again to perform surgery.

 Oh, and let me add: DO NOT TRY THIS LEVEL OF MODDING AT HOME. I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE IF YOU FRY YOUR AMP, MELT THE TUBES, ELECTROCUTE YOURSELF, OR RENDER YOURSELF INFERTILE. I AM A (NOT SO) HIGHLY TRAINED PROFESSIONAL (IN COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FIELDS) AND (PRETEND TO) KNOW WHAT I'M DOING (SOMETIMES).


----------



## echo1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_And remember Amp kiddies dont try this at home. I am a expert.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 



 Yes, I never said what I was an expert at either.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 and thanks, since I use a 50 ohm headphone I will do the mod also if you give the thumbs up.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_Yes, I never said what I was an expert at either.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 and thanks, since I use a 50 ohm headphone I will do the mod also if you give the thumbs up._

 

_"You guys got nothing to worry about. I'm a professional."_

 Yeah, just changing the output caps isn't too big of a deal, but you'll have to come up with something to glue them or drill some holes to strap them down.


----------



## swt61

Holy crap! The only original part will be the case! That's not an upgrade, it's a complete rebuild. I can't wait to hear about it!


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_Holy crap! The only original part will be the case! That's not an upgrade, it's a complete rebuild. I can't wait to hear about it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 












 Such are my exact words in an AIM conversation a few weeks ago. The chassis, transformer, power switch & inlet, ground wire (and that'll possibly be rerouted some), and input/output jacks are all that will be stock. And even at that, it's not just a complete rebuild, it's a complete rebuild with add-ons!

 See, when I geek out on something, I don't just do a little here and there, I jump in with both feet.


----------



## Fitz

Okay, here's the last picture I'll post until I've finished and tested everything. After that I'll give you plenty of tube amp prawn. I think this will prove I really am serious about modding this bad boy. Everything that is being upgraded has already been taken out. As you can see, swt61's diagnosis of the situation is quite accurate.

*WARNING: NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART.*






 And now, I sign out of this thread until about a week from now, where I shall post pictures of a much less empty Darkvoice.


----------



## swt61

WOW! WOW! All I can say is WOW!


----------



## echo1

I must say,from a professional viewpoint,that it is going to be the most extinsive mod of a Darkvoice yet. But from a strictly non-professional viewpoint,I must say HOLY COW,BATMAN.


----------



## jbloudg20

Craziness!

 For you crazy tube rollers:

 The 6SN7 can be substituted by a 7n7 if a loctal->octal adapter is made. 
 From what I have seen 7n7's are pretty cheap. I have a few coming my way, as well as the parts to make the adapter.

 Just a heads up! Keep those tubes aglowin and your face asmilin!


----------



## MrFaust

Looky what showed up yesterday...


----------



## Fitz

^ Beautiful! You gotta let everybody know how the low-impedance Grados sound with it.


----------



## swt61

I didn't expect low impedance headphones to sound as good as they do through the Darkvoice, but all I've tried so far sound wonderful. I listened to vpivinylspinners RS-1's through it and they sounded lovely.

 Congrats MrFaust! What's that unit to the left of your laptop behind the external HD?


----------



## SonicDawg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_I didn't expect low impedance headphones to sound as good as they do through the Darkvoice, but all I've tried so far sound wonderful. I listened to vpivinylspinners RS-1's through it and they sounded lovely._

 

The Darkvoice is magically with my 60ohm A250. It fills up the lower end very well, while providing good body and smooth delivery on the top end. Though lower impedence phones tend to pick up more noise, especially from the volume pot.


----------



## MrFaust

Thanks swt61. The unit next to the laptop is an EDIROL UA-25. I needed an option that would allow me to get sound from the laptop to the Darkvoice. And since the new Dell's don't have PCMCIA slots but rather ExpressCard slots, which doesn't have ANY real support yet, I needed something that would be USB compatable and have RCAs. I bought this unit because it also has plenty of options for recording, which I needed anyways to help record a friend's band practice.

 I am still getting the Darkvoice some "burn in" time. It's got about 10 hours on it now. But I still have a rather noticable hum coming from the Darkvoice when listening through my RS-2s. And the weird thing is the buzz as it were changes when I do activities on the laptop. If I startup foobar, moving the cursor around, etc... I'm hoping it isn't getting some damn feedback through the Edirol UA-25 since it's connected to the pc via usb. I'm going to give it a while longer and see if the humming/buzzing goes away. I checked the headphone out on the Edirol and I'm not getting any feedback from it so it must be the tubes on the Darkvoice for some reason.

 But besides that, right now I am listening to some high-vbr mp3s of Nine Inch Nails - Downward Spiral album. And the RS-2s sound absolutely fantastic. The bass is really there and a bit more defined as I hear it. I listened to some FLACs I made from the remastered Led Zeppelin cds yesterday. Good lord they sound fantastic. But the real wonder is the pairing of them amp with the AKG K701s. I was listening to Robin Trower's - Bridge Of Sighs and some Jimi Hendrix last night. It was absolute heaven. The imaging was like being there in the recording studio while it was recorded and as if the whole band was playing at the same time like they used to instead of playing individually like now days.

 More as I get this baby broke in.


----------



## echo1

Well I put in a new headphone jack and while I was doing it I nicked one of the power caps with my drill.The new jack was slightly larger......So I epoxed it temporarily so it wouldnt leak.But now I had to buy 4 of the Nichicon 330uf caps and a 200 ohm 5 watt silicone wireround by Ohmite for the power resistor. It should be here this week sometime.I only needed to fix one, but with shipping and all I decided to change them all cause it was on sale.(that last part is what I told my wife)
 It was a good learning experience, I took Fitz schematic and a multimeter and went to work. Fitz's schematic is dead on.It was kinda fun to trace the components and compare it to a schematic. Just like high school. Do they even teach electronics any more in high school?Or has computers classes taken over.
 Well by all.
 Wounded Darkvoice.


----------



## davve

so the 336i sounds good with high impedance and low impedance phones?
 ordered mine today, gonna use it whith my senn hd595 50ohms.


----------



## Fitz

Okay guys I need your help here. I need a good name for my radically upgraded Darkvoice, without going with a completely different name. Current working model name is THA336-Custom, but I'm sure there's something better. I don't really want to use Mk2 or anything like that, since the black chassis version has been sold using that moniker.

 I'll let you guys in on the reason for this later on


----------



## MrFaust

Well I just ordered a Sovtek 6AS7g tube for the back and waiting to hear back a dealer on a Ken-Rad 6SN7gt / VT-231 for the front. I hope this helps the humming issue with my RS-2s. I need to find one of those tube rings to help as well. Not sure the terminology for the item or where to look for them.

 <- Total Tube Noob


----------



## MrFaust

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_Okay guys I need your help here. I need a good name for my radically upgraded Darkvoice, without going with a completely different name. Current working model name is THA336-Custom, but I'm sure there's something better. I don't really want to use Mk2 or anything like that, since the black chassis version has been sold using that moniker.

 I'll let you guys in on the reason for this later on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Darth-Voice 336c


----------



## aznsensazian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_Okay guys I need your help here. I need a good name for my radically upgraded Darkvoice, without going with a completely different name. Current working model name is THA336-Custom, but I'm sure there's something better. I don't really want to use Mk2 or anything like that, since the black chassis version has been sold using that moniker.

 I'll let you guys in on the reason for this later on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Darkvoice_Fitz_Edition


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrFaust* 
_Well I just ordered a Sovtek 6AS7g tube for the back and waiting to hear back a dealer on a Ken-Rad 6SN7gt / VT-231 for the front. I hope this helps the humming issue with my RS-2s. I need to find one of those tube rings to help as well. Not sure the terminology for the item or where to look for them.

 <- Total Tube Noob 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

http://herbiesaudiolab.home.att.net/


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_Okay guys I need your help here. I need a good name for my radically upgraded Darkvoice, without going with a completely different name. Current working model name is THA336-Custom, but I'm sure there's something better. I don't really want to use Mk2 or anything like that, since the black chassis version has been sold using that moniker.

 I'll let you guys in on the reason for this later on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Darkervoice 336F


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrFaust* 
_Well I just ordered a Sovtek 6AS7g tube for the back and waiting to hear back a dealer on a Ken-Rad 6SN7gt / VT-231 for the front. I hope this helps the humming issue with my RS-2s. I need to find one of those tube rings to help as well. Not sure the terminology for the item or where to look for them.

 <- Total Tube Noob 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have two extra that fit the front tube. I'll be happy to send you one if you'll pay the shipping. Also Herbie's is just north of San Antonio. That goes for anyone needing the second extra as well.


----------



## MrFaust

swt61 sounds good, thank you. Let me know how much shipping would be to Addison TX 75001. Also check PM.

 Also what size C-Ring (flashbacks of working at the **** store) is needed for the back tube?


----------



## geoges.ravel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_Okay guys I need your help here. I need a good name for my radically upgraded Darkvoice, without going with a completely different name. Current working model name is THA336-Custom, but I'm sure there's something better. I don't really want to use Mk2 or anything like that, since the black chassis version has been sold using that moniker.

 I'll let you guys in on the reason for this later on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

DarkVoice-336 XP SPII


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrFaust* 
_Also what size C-Ring (flashbacks of working at the **** store) is needed for the back tube?_

 

ROFLMAO!!!


----------



## MrFaust

You laugh but it's true. I worked at the largest **** store chain in Texas for almost 2 years. Talk about desensitizing. Not much shocks me now other than the luv my new audio setup gives me. Discovering the music all over again... (dirty thoughts)

 I'm so anxious to get home to listen to my Darkvoice again. And this weekend should be especially pleasing since I should have both replacement tubes, the Ken-Rad 6SN7GT / VT-231 and the Sovtek 6AS7G, and both tube dampers. Yummy.


----------



## echo1

I could use the second set swt61.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_I could use the second set swt61._

 

Well it's not a set, I just have the one for the front tube. PM me with your address and I'll get it mailed off tomorrow.


----------



## echo1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_Well it's not a set, I just have the one for the front tube. PM me with your address and I'll get it mailed off tomorrow. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

How about a trade. I have several 6sn7's that I can trade since I went to the 12.6 volt tubes. You can take your pick,
 Hytron gt-white lettering
 Cbs-hytron gt
 RCA clear gt
 Rca smoke glass gt-non military
 Jan-cbs 5692
 Ken rad-staggered plates clear glass(this tube is harmonic, but no hum)
 These are ones I had no hum with.
 If not could I send the shipping plus paypal fees to you through paypal?
 Thanks


----------



## Fitz

Thanks for the ideas guys! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_Darkervoice 336F_

 

I think I'm going to go on a variation of this: Darkvoice THA336FM. FM being either Fully Modded or Fitz Modded (or built by a Frickin' Maniac), depending on one's preference 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I _love_ the Darkervoice and Darthvoice ideas, but unfortunately mine is silver and thus much less dark than everybody else's. Now if everybody had a silver one and I had a black one, it'd work perfectly.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_How about a trade. I have several 6sn7's that I can trade since I went to the 12.6 volt tubes. You can take your pick,
 Hytron gt-white lettering
 Cbs-hytron gt
 RCA clear gt
 Rca smoke glass gt-non military
 Jan-cbs 5692
 Ken rad-staggered plates clear glass(this tube is harmonic, but no hum)
 These are ones I had no hum with.
 If not could I send the shipping plus paypal fees to you through paypal?
 Thanks_

 

Not necessary, I love my Kenrad, it's all I use. But I'll get it out to you tomorrow.


----------



## MrFaust

Good lord, my Koss A250 friggin ROCK in the Darkvoice.


----------



## Fitz

I'm probably going to cause Steve some grief with this, but based on current lead times for some special order parts, I'll probably be able to post impressions and maybe some pictures in a couple more weeks. Only one person on Head-Fi knows what I'm up to now, but if he tells anyone I'll get Guido to break his legs.


----------



## aznsensazian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_I'm probably going to cause Steve some grief with this, but based on current lead times for some special order parts, I'll probably be able to post impressions and maybe some pictures in a couple more weeks. Only one person on Head-Fi knows what I'm up to now, but if he tells anyone I'll get Guido to break his legs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

dude, spill the beans!


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aznsensazian* 
_dude, spill the beans!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well if you ask real nice I might just tell you that I've decided to... OH LOOK SHINY!






 Two weeks. You wait! If you guys don't find the THA336FM upgrades worth the wait, I'll eat a 6AS7G whole.


----------



## swt61

OK, You should be a promoter, because if a guy ever wanted to create a stir for something, you just did it. My mind is rolling through the possibilities of what you could be up to. I know it'll be worth the wait!


----------



## MrFaust

You're adding a flux capacitor to your Darkvoice? That's insane, INSANE! I didn't think it could handle the 1.21 gigawatts. Just imagine, listening to you favorite music and you get to a good point that you want to turn it up, next thing you know you are standing in the middle of a Pine Tree farm... ok I really need to stay away from 80's movies staring Micheal J. Fox


----------



## aznsensazian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrFaust* 
_You're adding a flux capacitor to your Darkvoice? That's insane, INSANE! I didn't think it could handle the 1.21 gigawatts. Just imagine, listening to you favorite music and you get to a good point that you want to turn it up, next thing you know you are standing in the middle of a Pine Tree farm... ok I really need to stay away from 80's movies staring Micheal J. Fox_

 

lol


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aznsensazian* 
_lol_

 


 don't laugh aznsensazian, that's a *BlackGate* flux capacitor he's talking about... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And I want the T-shirt concession:


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrFaust* 
_You're adding a flux capacitor to your Darkvoice? That's insane, INSANE! I didn't think it could handle the 1.21 gigawatts. Just imagine, listening to you favorite music and you get to a good point that you want to turn it up, next thing you know you are standing in the middle of a Pine Tree farm... ok I really need to stay away from 80's movies staring Micheal J. Fox_

 

Great Scott! How did you figure it out?!

 The only catch with it is you can't go past 88 decibels, so if you try to crank it too much you'll find yourself in a whole world of trouble.


----------



## echo1

A while back in this forum someone asked me what I thought of the National Electronic 6as7g I bought. He said he tried some and did not like them.Not the exact same tube but one branded National Electronics. 
 Well to answer the question I found out that National Electronics only rebranded other company tubes. For example there was a pair listed on ebay recently that I passed on because they said made in USA on them. They looked like rebranded RCA to me. Mine said made in USSR. After studying a lot of pictures I think there Svetlana and I bought a few more for spares.It is the tube I use all the time now.
 So to conclude National Electronics can be good or bad depending on who they get them from.


----------



## jarthel

does he sell parts? looking at a transformer and choke.

 thank you.


----------



## echo1

I dont know notin' about Fitz's amp upgrade.
 And Guido is a heck of a nice guy.
 Just misunderstood.


----------



## jarthel

try russian nos 6h13c which are 6as7g equivalents. I've read in AA that these are better than 6as7.


----------



## SonicDawg

Just got some Sylvania 6SN7GT from mail. Plugged it in, and only the right channel has sound. The funny thing is, upon boot up both channels are fine, but within minutes the left side cuts off... I hope some burning in will fix this


----------



## Teerawit

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_I'm probably going to cause Steve some grief with this, but based on current lead times for some special order parts, I'll probably be able to post impressions and maybe some pictures in a couple more weeks. Only one person on Head-Fi knows what I'm up to now, but if he tells anyone I'll get Guido to break his legs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

LOL

 cmon....you can tell me...


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Teerawit* 
_LOL

 cmon....you can tell me... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 






 I _thought_ I already told you before I decided to do it. Who the hell did I tell then?


----------



## MrFaust

Got my Sovtek 6AS7G and the damper for it today, alone with 2 more Apocalyptica CDs. Gonna have some good times tonight... I hope


----------



## MrFaust

Well bad news for me, something in my computer setup is the cause of the hum. I hooked up the Darkvoice to my Onkyo DV-3939(B) DVD player and it sounds fantastic of course. And NO HUMMING. So now I have to figure out if it is the Edirol UA-25 that is causing the noise or what. I don't hear the feedback when I just straight into the UA-25, so I wonder if it might by the powerbrick to my laptop that is the cause of the noise. I sure hope it isn't the laptop itself since I just paid almost $2700 for it. I need to find another USB solution to connect to the Darkvoice to see if it is the UA-25 or what.


----------



## KevC

Wee I just saw my tube amp. So sexy, I'm surprised by the build quality of Chinese components. I haven't plugged her in yet, I'm at the airport... 18hour flight. First thing I'll do when I get unpacked.... plug my Koss 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 KSCs into her! (only thing I have at the moment)

 How long have you ran these amps for? I want to run them overnight to burn in but I'm afraid of fire hazard.


----------



## Teerawit

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_





 I thought I already told you before I decided to do it. Who the hell did I tell then? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

(kidding)


----------



## SonicDawg

Does anyone know how to increase the voltage output of the amp? I think I hear distortion on some of Wagner's opera pieces... really annoying


----------



## MrFaust

Well I think I've figured out the cause of the hiss. GROUND LOOP SIGNAL. My laptop has a 3 prong plug which I have plugged into my powerstrip. Now I just need to find a ground loop isolator that works.


----------



## echo1

Sonicdawg, could be the tube. Sylvania 6sn7gt are not my favorite. Try a ken-rad, Rca dark glass ww2,tung-sol.
 I will mail you one to try out.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrFaust* 
_Well I think I've figured out the cause of the hiss. GROUND LOOP SIGNAL. My laptop has a 3 prong plug which I have plugged into my powerstrip. Now I just need to find a ground loop isolator that works._

 

If you find one let me know, I'd be interested in one.


----------



## echo1

Hi, I have a question. I thought the output coupling caps were orange drops.But when I run a search for 10uf orange caps nothing comes up as a hit for that value. There all a lot less values. Am I missing something?
 Our am I wrong about what kind they are.
 Thanks


----------



## echo1

Go to www.google.com. Type in failure and see what pops up as #1. Is it a mistake?


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_Go to www.google.com. Type in failure and see what pops up as #1. Is it a mistake?_

 

That's what we call Google bombing. It's a deliberate manipulation of Google's page ranking system, usually to associate something negative with a person or company.


----------



## Fitz

*TEASER*

 Output capacitors for one channel strapped, epoxied and ready to install:


----------



## MrFaust

Well those "Ground Loop Isolators" don't work worth a damn. I tried one from Radio Shack and one from Fry's Electronics. All they did was basically kill most of the signal coming from the UA-25. I had to really crack up the volumn to hear anything. Someone has advised me to get a DAC so that I can optical line out of the UA-25 to the DAC and then RCA from the DAC to the Darkvoice. But I really don't want to jump in to another $200+ purchase without knowing for sure this will fix the issue. I know the Zhaolu D2C has an optical line in. Now to see if anyone in the area might have one I can audition for a weekend or so to make sure it works the way I need it to.


 EDIT: Well... what can I say... I ended up buying a Lite DAC-AH Pacific Valve Modified. Another $240 towards my audio setup. JEZ I remember the days of just listening to some crappy Sony headphones via the stock headphone out jack on a pc and being happy with that.


----------



## swt61

Well it looks like our plan is working guys. All the phony meets we've set up and the elaborate website, not to mention all the actors posing as headphone geeks, just to get MrFaust sucked in and spending cash. Finally it's paying off!


----------



## MrFaust

Steve, the C-Ring showed up today. Thank you again. Now if only the other tube would have shown up today. Oh Well. Patients and all that crap...


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrFaust* 
_Steve, the C-Ring showed up today. Thank you again. Now if only the other tube would have shown up today. Oh Well. Patients and all that crap..._

 

Uhmmm remember MrFaust that C-Ring goes on your tube!


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_Uhmmm remember MrFaust that C-Ring goes on your tube! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The _glass_ tube, mind you.

 And holy guacamole I gotta take a picture of my wire order that arrived today. I did not completely put it together in my head just how friggin' much 8.5+ pounds of hookup wire scraps is.


----------



## echo1

Ok Fritz does anything in this picture strike you as well,not quite to Darkvoice spec?

 I did not leave you much wiggle room this time.


----------



## Fitz

Clearly it's the frog just sitting there and not working on the amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So what's next? 1kV heaters?


----------



## Fitz

As Patrick82 says, who needs food when you have cable? All of this is silver-plated copper with primarily teflon coating, but the occasional kapton and other oddballs are mixed in as well. Estimated net weight factoring in the box and bags is around just under 10 pounds of wire.

 Shielded twisted pairs:




 Unshielded twisted pairs:




 Coaxial:




 Very short pre-cut pre-tinned jumpers:




 LOTS of long and short pieces:




 Loose wire, uncoated jumpers, and LOTS of clear tubing:




 The whole shebang:





 Not a bad assortment for a whole $12.00, so I guess I can have food AND cable


----------



## echo1

You got a good deal Fitz.
 Shure beats me trying to cook frog legs on top of my power supply. Not enough amps.


----------



## echo1

Oh the temptation.. I am looking at a bigger chassis that I could sit the Darkvoice on made by Hammond. Kinda like a double stacked amp and wider to. Then I could use chokes, Large paper in oil caps on the 4 inches on each side that is wider than the Darkvoice, huge power supply caps. Oh the thoughts of what deads I could do.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_Oh the temptation.. I am looking at a bigger chassis that I could sit the Darkvoice on made by Hammond. Kinda like a double stacked amp and wider to. Then I could use chokes, Large paper in oil caps on the 4 inches on each side that is wider than the Darkvoice, huge power supply caps.Massive output caps. Oh the thoughts of what deads I could do._

 

At that point just build a whole new amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've spent enough to do it myself, but the fun for me is finding ways to add and upgrade stuff while keeping within the same design layout inside the case.

 And if anyone ever needs some hookup wire for a DIY project, you know where to find me


----------



## echo1

Thanks.


----------



## MrFaust

Well I got a bandaid for my his problem till my DAC-AH-M shows up. I went out to Loews and bought a cheater plug adapter. Now there is no hum. Now on to the next issue with is more Foobar related than anything. Getting this damn skippy playback is a pain my behind. $0.69 quick fix. But I'm not crazy about my amp running ungrounded for too long. Question about the C-Ring for the coke bottle tube. How far down on the tube does the ring go? I have it just sitting on the rim of the tube at the moment. The smaller c-ring Steve sent me I did have to open a little more to get around the tube. But it has a nice snug fit on it.



 BTW can I just mention how GOOD Metallica's To Live Is To Die off the ... And Justice For All cd sound through the Darkvoice to my Grado RS-2's. If I wasn't such a bread lover I would swear this amp is the best thing since sliced bread. So it will have to take a close second.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrFaust* 
_Question about the C-Ring for the coke bottle tube. How far down on the tube does the ring go?_

 

Mine currently sits snugly just above the shoulder on the tube.


----------



## Fitz

Okay, so I was just going to take a picture of my pretty little epoxied set of crossfeed capacitors. But I spent a couple more hours (I kept having to come back to find parts/tools I forgot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) and brought this home instead...









 To anybody else who thinks they'll be clever and point-to-point a crossfeed module... don't. It's a lot bigger PITA than you would think, if you want to keep the components and joints tight against the capacitors and not a big spaghetti mess in the air. Anything in the air in my picture is going to go to another part of the board, all of the 'local' components fit together snugly against the capacitors.

 Next time I do crossfeed, I'm making sure I have room for a PCB. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But at least quick testing with alligator clips shows that it works!


----------



## phergus_25

you'll have to show me that crossfeed and all, I am wanting to add one into my LD2+. do you have it on a switch?


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *phergus_25* 
_you'll have to show me that crossfeed and all, I am wanting to add one into my LD2+. do you have it on a switch?_

 

Yup...





 The leads just worked out to be perfectly _not_ where I wanted them to be for lining up neatly with the switch, so I had to criss-cross them some. It doesn't look as bad in person, since the bundle is so small. I almost wired up the switch upside-down because I forgot I was working with the amp upside-down.


----------



## Fitz

I just finished up the last of the 'difficult' wiring by the front panel, so I may actually be able to do some preliminary testing this weekend, if I manage to get more time to work on it. But it won't be finished until next week; I just got the UPS tracking number today for the last special order part, expected delivery on the 24th.

 Hang tight guys


----------



## KevC

Ok I just took her out of the box... it's very pretty. Having trouble inserting the tubes. I can't read the chinese instructions haha. do you need to really SHOVE them in? Cos i'm putting a bit of force, and don't want to touch the glass tubes...

 //edit: turns out i was just too worried about breakin the tubes. i pushed them in and they went... now i'm just wondering how to get them out since it took that much force to get them in....


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KevC* 
_Ok I just took her out of the box... it's very pretty. Having trouble inserting the tubes. I can't read the chinese instructions haha. do you need to really SHOVE them in? Cos i'm putting a bit of force, and don't want to touch the glass tubes...

 //edit: turns out i was just too worried about breakin the tubes. i pushed them in and they went... now i'm just wondering how to get them out since it took that much force to get them in...._

 

To get them out, just gently rock them back and forth while pulling out, or 'roll' them in a circular pattern. It'll take a bit longer than putting them in, but isn't hard at all.


----------



## Fitz

All main wiring and components are in. It works.


----------



## MrFaust

I still haven't got my Ken-Rad tube yet. But hopefully it will show up this week. The C-Ring for the back tube keeps popping off the tube. I got it to the rim of the tube but when I turn on the amp it keeps coming off. My Lite DAC-AH-M should be here this week as well. Just ordered another external hdd for my laptop to store my flac collection since my current 300gb is full. Now I can finally store all my concert bootleg recordings together. I can't wait to give them a listen through this amp.


----------



## echo1

I have mine just at the point where its the widest.There is only a couple millimeters up or down on the widest part of the tube where the ring will stay on.
 It did get rid of the microphonics in a old rca 6as7g I have.Sounds good to.
 Well how is it going fitz?How do you like it?
 I ordered and am waiting for nichicon for the main power caps on mine.I have decided to use metalized Polyprops and silver in oil for the output caps. Gotta waite for that one though.$$$
 I went ahead and wired mine for the d.c. heaters on all tubes.I was getting some hum still when I had the back tube on a.c. 
 I had thought I had done someting with my probing around in there.But the d.c. voltage has cured all hum in all tubes. It is now dead silent.
 Lots of Bass to.Had to equalize down on the Bass.
 Had my first capacitor shock,dont want to do that again.Ouch.
 Ordered a DPDT switch from rat shack to toggle between 6sn7 and 12sn7.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_Well how is it going fitz?How do you like it?_

 

I still have some more parts to install, and I may get to compare the newly built custom Darkvoice to a LD2+ at a mini-meet this weekend, so the wait continues!


----------



## phergus_25

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_I still have some more parts to install, and I may get to compare the newly built custom Darkvoice to a LD2+ at a mini-meet this weekend, so the wait continues! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Like I said man, let me know and I'll be there. O and I should have that project done by then so I can atleast drop by and get it to you.
 -greg


----------



## Fitz

Low-res preview, it's almost done


----------



## echo1

Power caps on the way.Switch on the way.
 Output caps,resistors on change list.
 New tube sockets? Maybe

 Looks nice Fitz. Reall clean work. Wish I could hear it.


----------



## echo1

I have a question. I have not a problem with buying new tube sockets, but I have contact enhancer. Would the contact enhancer have an equal effect on the tube pins and sockets as gold plated sockets?Or would the gold pins have a greater effect on Sound Q?


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_I have a question. I have not a problem with buying new tube sockets, but I have contact enhancer. Would the contact enhancer have an equal effect on the tube pins and sockets as gold plated sockets?Or would the gold pins have a greater effect on Sound Q?_

 

The gold plating is mainly just to keep them from oxidizing, if the contact is clean it won't make a difference either way (unless you listen to an audiophile). It also looks prettier. 

 The reason I got new sockets is for a much stronger grip on the pins, the sockets that come with it are pretty cheap, and a couple of the forks didn't grip the pins on some tubes tightly enough, leaving room for them to rock back and forth in the socket. The new sockets have six-pronged grips that hold the tube like a vice.


----------



## echo1

Ok I will give it some thought.
 I checked the front tube, seems tight. But the back tube wiggles easily so the pins are not being held tightly. Weight of the tube?. Thanks for the tip.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_Ok I will give it some thought.
 I checked the front tube, seems tight. But the back tube wiggles easily so the pins are not being held tightly. Weight of the tube?. Thanks for the tip._

 

Exact same situation I had. It was more of an issue with tubes that had been used before and had grooves worn into the pins.


----------



## echo1

Well I changed the main power caps but so far this is one change I haven't liked so far. I will let them break in for about a week. I may go back to the samsung if it doesnt change.


----------



## MrFaust

My Lite DAC-AH Modified and my Ken-Rad 6SN7GT tube showed up today...



 <- does the happy dance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






 I'm just curious how the Darkvoice is when linked to a Corda Aria
 I also need to find out if it would hurt anything signal wise if i put the Darkvoice on a switchbox so I can alternate between my Onkyo and my Laptop for sources without have to constantly move the cables around.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrFaust* 
_My Lite DAC-AH Modified and my Ken-Rad 6SN7GT tube showed up today...



 <- does the happy dance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 I'm just curious how the Darkvoice is when linked to a Corda Aria
 I also need to find out if it would hurt anything signal wise if i put the Darkvoice on a switchbox so I can alternate between my Onkyo and my Laptop for sources without have to constantly move the cables around._

 

Unless it has a really bad quality switch, then it shouldn't hurt anything.


----------



## echo1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_Well I changed the main power caps but so far this is one change I haven't liked so far. I will let them break in for about a week. I may go back to the samsung if it doesnt change._

 

Sounding better. The graveling in the mids is starting to smooth out.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_Sounding better. The graveling in the mids is starting to smooth out._

 

I didn't have any major problems with them straight from first power up, but it may've been eclipsed by the other simultaneous upgrades.


----------



## echo1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_I didn't have any major problems with them straight from first power up, but it may've been eclipsed by the other simultaneous upgrades._

 

How did using electrolytics as output coupling caps work out?
 I must admit that the articles on paper in oil caps has me interested. But there expensive for the values that the Darkvoice uses(or huge). Except there are some Russian made ones here that are cheap---
http://cgi.ebay.com/MBGO-2-30uF-160V...QQcmdZViewItem

 There 30uf but I dont need so many.But if I new that they would work well I may buy them and spread them around for those interested. They look like by the measurements they should fit in the chassis.
 What do you think Fitz? Worth a try or has it allready been tried before?


----------



## Fitz

Actually surprisingly good. I guess the tin foil bypass is doing its job well. The increase in capacitance has really filled out the W5000's bottom end, and I don't hear any amp-specific problems with the mids or highs.

 You can give the PIO's a try and see how you like them. IMO the Darkvoice still needs a good bump in output capacitance for low-impedance phones, even with the 30uF they use now. But the less that you are concerned about the deeper end of bass, then the less of an issue it is.


----------



## Superpredator

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrFaust* 
_I'm just curious how the Darkvoice is when linked to a Corda Aria_

 

I'm curious as to what you mean by "linked" here. I am a borderline everything noob compared to some, and a complete and utter tube noob. So... are you implying that a SS and a tube can be linked to drive a single pair of headphones? 

 As a side note, I've read every Darkvoice thread (not that there are many) with a keen interest in what they could do for my K340s. $310 is by no means out of my range for an amp, but I don't feel like there's a clear consensus on this amp yet. Potential hum issues, wires that need twisting, who knows what I could run into. I'm all for impulse buys, but somehow impulse buying an amp that will take 14 days to reach me has little satisfaction.

 Recommendations?


----------



## echo1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Superpredator* 
_I'm curious as to what you mean by "linked" here. I am a borderline everything noob compared to some, and a complete and utter tube noob. So... are you implying that a SS and a tube can be linked to drive a single pair of headphones? 

 As a side note, I've read every Darkvoice thread (not that there are many) with a keen interest in what they could do for my K340s. $310 is by no means out of my range for an amp, but I don't feel like there's a clear consensus on this amp yet. Potential hum issues, wires that need twisting, who knows what I could run into. I'm all for impulse buys, but somehow impulse buying an amp that will take 14 days to reach me has little satisfaction.

 Recommendations?_

 

I hope I dont offend by answering this. I have a Echo Indigo that I am using to feed the Darkvoice. It has a line out, but the line out is as loud as the headphone out.The only diff. is the headphone out has a volume control on the card and the line out is done in software. As someone who had never used a pre-amp before I had the same question. I thought the input signal would be to much. But it isnt. I turn it up about 1/2 to 2/3(just right before distortion)and the darkvoice is fine with it. So I think I am right,yes you can use a normal headphone out and you would be fine to feed a Darkvoice.Double amplification.. Maybe more but someone besides me can answer that. I do not know the total max. input on these.
 I can tell you this,I thought the echo Indigo sounded good. There are threads hear about the laptop sound card. But once you add the amplification of tubes to it, theres nothing I can really compare it to. If you get a chance to hear a good tube amp , grab it. Its a sound altering experience.


----------



## Superpredator

I just ordered a Darkvoice 336i. I figure if I hate it I can just drop it in the ocean.

 I assumed it would be feasible to feed a solid state signal into a tube amp (or vice versa) but have never come across the idea before and wondered what, exactly, it resulted in. Especially since I have an Aria and will soon have a Darkvoice.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Superpredator* 
_I just ordered a Darkvoice 336i. I figure if I hate it I can just drop it in the ocean.

 I assumed it would be feasible to feed a solid state signal into a tube amp (or vice versa) but have never come across the idea before and wondered what, exactly, it resulted in. Especially since I have an Aria and will soon have a Darkvoice._

 

Congrats on your purchase!

 As far as chaining multiple amps together, I can't speak for how it will sound. This isn't a far fetched idea though, because you can already use a tube buffer between the source and an amp (typically SS) to allow you to use tubes to shape the sound, but without applying any gain.


----------



## Superpredator

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_Congrats on your purchase!

 As far as chaining multiple amps together, I can't speak for how it will sound. This isn't a far fetched idea though, because you can already use a tube buffer between the source and an amp (typically SS) to allow you to use tubes to shape the sound, but without applying any gain._

 

Interesting concept. I use my Aria as a preamp to a crapass Onkyo R1 (mostly for convenience), but had never considered preamping a headphone amp for any reason. I probably won't do it, but it's nice to know I can. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I am hope hope hoping the Darkvoice makes my K340 happy. I have started using the Aria/K340 at home for medical transcription editing (where I need to review doctors' dictation and detail is of the utmost importance) and the K340 is by far the best headphone I've used for this purpose. I may shift the Aria to my desk at work, and it will be a little odd to hear tube glow/goodness of the Darkvoice coloring dictated audio. 

 I noticed in the e-mail from Jian Liu a mention of a three-day shipping time, but no mention of the ten-day wait to have the amp converted for 110 voltage. Does anyone know if they've eliminated this wait time? That would be swell.


----------



## SonicDawg

Having the K340 and the Darkvoice I can vouch for the great synergy this combo has. The tube amp definitely has the juice to push the beast, while its control of the bass really makes them sing.


----------



## Fitz

Okay, I'm still waiting on one part, and have a few others still to be soldered in, but right now this system with the modded Darkvoice is pure heaven. I just had a major eargasm.


----------



## echo1

I am still reading alot about caps. But one thing I would like to ask is what is the value in range for a high frequency coupling cap? Fitz used 1uf but can other values be used as well or is a 1uf a sweet spot. It is an answer I cant seem to find on searches. A lot about speaker crossovers, but little on this question. Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## echo1

I am still following your upgrade path. I am going to change the sockets. I just got some soviet tubes that because they dont sit in the sockets tightly there scratchiing. I know its the back socket because if I move them around I can find a spot where it will stop.
 And I am glad that your upgrade resulted in a "eargasm"
 The results are super.


----------



## Fitz

I'll be posting pictures and some more detailed info on the upgrades and resulting sound tonight. So stay tuned.


----------



## DDQ

Has anyone seen this listing on ebay: Darkvoice 336 220V It went for $152.50 ($60 shipping)


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DDQ* 
_Has anyone seen this listing on ebay: Darkvoice 336 220V It went for $152.50 ($60 shipping)_

 

Interesting, looks like a test sale to me. Maybe we'll see a return of eBay sales.


----------



## futuro107

http://cgi.ebay.de/DarkVoice-THA336i...QQcmdZViewItem
 This one looks with more confidence.


----------



## echo1

Ok I am awaiting with anticipation.I am holding off all purchases except the tube sockets.


----------



## phergus_25

Fitz's DV and W5000 combo is some of the best synergy that I haevv heard. Im not going to give away his upgrades and all, but I will tell you taht it is awsome.


----------



## Fitz

Since it may take me a while to get even a couple paragraphs written in-between what I'm doing right now, I'll start off with some pictures:


























 And here's the box containing all of the leftover parts:


----------



## Fitz

Okay, so the obligatory pictures are out of the way, now let's move on to the mods. I'm not going to go into detail about every little component changed, but I'll cover the main stuff. Also, I am highly critical of many parts of the design here, and may mention extreme differences, so please don't take it as negative traits of the amp itself. I'd rather just state my opinions and the differences in 'normal' descriptors, rather than half the post being "slightly", "somewhat", "a little", etc. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - - -

 What started as a simple mod to reduce the 60Hz hum caused by the AC heaters on certain tubes, is the cause of all of this. Because I was using cheap components I had on stock to do the original "Fitz mod", I took it in and out more than once, unsure whether it was negatively affecting the SQ in other ways. To put an end to constantly soldering and desoldering, I drilled and filed a slot in Darkvoice's front panel to accomodate a DPDT switch, which I used to enable/disable the mod. There was a fairly big volume difference between it being on or off, and the changes in hum level on certain tubes made it difficult to compare, so I still didn't get anywhere with determining the effects. I decided I'd eventually replace the mod with high quality components, and repurpose the switch for something else, and left it at that.

 Or at least that's what I told myself.

 When I added the W5000s to my system, some of the Darkvoice's limitations with low-impedance extremely-sensitive headphones became apparent. The W5000s were actually a really good set of headphones to use during the modding process, because of how many noise artifacts (hiss, hum, RFI, etc) they can easily reveal in your signal chain, that nothing else shows. The biggest problem was the fact that I had only a few degrees of the volume control I could use before it went from too quiet to too loud. I could live with it at the time, but I knew I would need to do something to get more control over the volume.

 Another problem I discovered was the lowest registers of bass were rolled off and lacking in impact, even with tubes that should give plenty of kick. Unfortunately, the original Darkvoice models had less output capacitance than the current production models, and it proved to be just too small for the 40 ohm W5000s. I'm still of the opinion that the Darkvoice should be using more output capacitance, but there's no way they can add anymore film caps inside and at the price-point (in China, our price is much higher than MSRP), it wouldn't be economical for them to use audio-grade electrolytics. I actually didn't even notice this for a while, going to show just how much of a basshead I am. I don't remember why, but I had the W5000s hooked up to my M3, and noticed a lot more bass than I was hearing before, and comparing back and forth confirmed that there was some rolloff on the Darkvoice.

 And the final major promptor for me to do the modding was the tube sockets. The sockets they use are regular cheap run-of-the-mill tube sockets, which just don't grip tightly and evenly enough for the large output tube. With some tubes, especially used ones with groves already worn into the pins, getting them to sit correctly in the socket without periodically cutting out can be tricky. It wasn't a problem for the stock tubes, or the majority of tubes I own, but it was enough to warrant them being changed since I had other modding plans.

 I was originally going to just do these three mods (volume pot, output caps, and tube sockets), and change the wiring to using stranded teflon SPC so I could easily relocate components and wiring without having to creatively bend and cut the existing solid core wiring every time. I don't know who I was talking to at the time, but at some point I randomly came up with the idea to just replace all the main components in it "for the hell of it". I was only half-serious at the time, but the idea grew on me, and then I started making notes of part values, and where to source good components for it...


----------



## SLCanhead

All I can say is WOW!

 Oustanding looking...it sounds the inside went through quite a transformation, too (pics!?!)

 I can't wait to hear your thoughts on the sound!

 Great job!!!


----------



## Fitz

It took me a while to decide on specific parts and suppliers for all of the 1st stage mods, which at the time were supposed to be the only mods I was going to do. While the parts were filtering in, I went ahead and stripped out all of the components inside the Darkvoice, so I could start planning how to put the new ones in and make it all fit. It took a little while to get far with this, between finding time to work on it, and waiting for the parts to arrive so I could do it in the proper order. Multiple times along the way, and even up to just a week ago, I was coming up with new changes, revisions, and additions. I probably spent a bit too much on shipping making so many orders, but every time I didn't anticipate any more changes, and I didn't want to make everybody wait in limbo while I did the "neverending mod". I actually spent countless hours working in the evenings this week just to make sure I would have it ready for you guys. I think I put the last parts in late Friday evening.

 So I guess you want to know what the hell I did to my poor Darkvoice, don't you? Well here's the gist of it:


*Volume Potentiometer:*

 I found that the Darkvoice is using a 100K linear pot by default, which is the reason why it seems to reach it's usable limit at just 9'o'clock. With replaygained FLAC files (e.g. quieter), and the W5000s, I had a usable range of 1 "hour" on the volume knob. They could've added a couple resistors to make it behave more like an audio pot, but for some reason didn't. I replaced the stock volume pot and mounting PCB with an Alps RK27, the so-called "Blue Velvet", which was harder to find in 100K. There simply isn't room to put a good stepped potentiometer in there, and I prefer the minute control of a continous volume control anyways, so I stuck with the Alps. When all is said and done with this and the other mods (that reduce volume to some extent), I have a primary range of about 9'o'clock to 3'o'clock, with most of the time spend around 12'o'clock. The much more gradual volume change is an extreme improvement in usability,


*Cathode Bypass (AKA the original "Fitz mod"):*

 This stayed exactly the same as my original mod, save for using some Nichicon KZ "Muse" caps instead of the cheap Nichicons I had on there before. It makes tuberolling painless without having to worry about any super-microphonic tubes picking up hum from the AC heater supply.


*Resistors:*

 I replaced all of the large resistors with Ohmite wirewound power resistors, and the smaller ones with Vishay/Dale RN series mil-spec resistors. Why? Well it would've been difficult to recycle all of the stock resistors. The stock power resistors had a really cheap coating that flaked off if you looked at it. And the Vishay/Dales are just simply the "cool" DIY resistors.


*Tube Sockets:*

 I've already expressed my dislike of the stock tube sockets used, on a purely mechanical basis. Rather than replace them with similar cheap sockets, I decided to go fancy and get a pair of teflon sockets with 6-pronged gold-plated pin grips, that're bolted down to the socket without any wiggling at all. Way more expensive than normal tube sockets, but they do exactly what I wanted, and tubes slide in and out smoothly without any repeated adjusting after insertion.


*Power Supply:*

 There wasn't a significant reason for me to replace the power supply capacitors other than they went along for the ride while I was doing all the other mods. I left the transformer and bridge rectifier alone, just to avoid having to mess with the mains supply anywhere. Me and 120VAC have a bad history and don't always get along, so I stuck to dealing with it after it was DC. The new Nichicon caps do look nice though, showing a mostly black surface with most of the labeling hidden.


*Output Capacitors:*

 Ahh, part of the original plan. After running the numbers several times, doing some simulations, and reading up on other tube amps, I came to the audiophile-dreading conclusion: I needed to put electrolytics in the signal path. There was no way to get enough film caps in the Darkvoice chassis to achieve what I wanted. I settled on using some Nichicon KZ "Muse" capacitors with a Solen tin foil bypass across them. Since I take audiophiles seriously more often than I should, part of me was dreading how it would sound when I had it all hooked up. Let's just say... there wasn't a damn thing wrong with it.


*Crossfeed:*

 Some love it, some hate it. I happen to be of the former category. I decided to use the switch I cut into the panel as a control for crossfeed, and add one of my favourite tweaks to the system. I used Solen tin foil capacitors and Vishay/Dale RN series resistors for the crossfeed, all epoxied and folded up in a nice little point-to-point bundle between the switch and the volume control. Probably the hardest thing I had to do in the entire Darkvoice, due to me underestimating the size of the caps and how much space I would have (I based most of my measurements off the stock Darkvoice, neglecting that many replacements and additions would take up more space and thus affect the other mods). I settled on the switch to toggle between off and high crossfeed, using the modified Linkwitz design by Chu Moy. I never got a huge improvement with the wide-open K501s in the past, but with the W5000s, the difference is phenominal. With many (not just older) recordings, it makes the sound much more transparent, and takes away the feeling of pressure on your ear if an instrument is playing mostly or entirely in one channel.


*Headphone Jack:*

 This is one of the parts that quite literally arrived at the last minute. I decided to incorporate a groundloop breaker into my Darkvoice, using a resistor and capacitor. The only problem is I had to use a headphone jack with a long nylon bushing to not directly connect the two grounds at the front panel. I completely missed the page in my Mouser catalog for the Neutrik jacks that would work, so ordered a Switchcraft jack from avcable.com. Tuesday I got a call that it was out of stock, and even the one that was the normal length was out of stock too, so I figured this mod would simply have to wait to be completed. But I talked with Mike at avcable.com some, and the next day they got the shorter one in stock so he went ahead and shipped that out to me with the promise that he'd ship me the longer one if it didn't work. It showed up Friday afternoon, and with some creative work with a dremel and razor knife, managed to make it sit further forward on the chassis so that it would stick out enough so the W5000's metal plug wouldn't short the signal ground to the chassis. I got it to fit with quite literally about a third of a millimeter clearance all around between the plug and chassis, and couldn't get it to wiggle close enough to short. Whew!

*Headphone Jack continued:*

 I was still a little concerned about the electrolytics being hooked up to the output, so I added fuses in line with the headphone jack, to protect my W5000s if one of those caps ever goes bad and shorts out. I bought various values, but am using just 63mA ones right now, which are big enough because they didn't even flinch when I turned the volume knob way past "too loud to bear" (with the headphones off of course). And I compared them to just bare metal jumpers in the fuse holders, with no audible difference. I also added a pair of 75 ohm resistors in series with the output, similar to the idea behind the various adapter cables that add impedance to headphones. It gives me more range on the volume control, but otherwise I don't notice any major sonic differences. I think the other mods already took the Darkvoice to the point that this "trick" doesn't have much effect anymore.


*Front Panel:*

 The main secret that I had to keep from you guys to leave a little bit of suspense. I went back and forth on whether I wanted to do this or just, and just said screw it and ordered it one day. It turned out, really, really nice. Way better than I had expected by all means. Any marks you see on the front of it in the pictures are shadows from the light bouncing off debris on my desk, because the panel is immaculate. They've also improved the edges drastically from the pictures I've seen before.


----------



## Fitz

To prove I really am a crazyman, here's the photographic evidence of my abused Darkvoice:


----------



## Azure

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_*Front Panel:*

 The main secret that I had to keep from you guys to leave a little bit of suspense. I went back and forth on whether I wanted to do this or just, and just said screw it and ordered it one day. It turned out, really, really nice. Way better than I had expected by all means. Any marks you see on the front of it in the pictures are shadows from the light bouncing off debris on my desk, because the panel is immaculate. They've also improved the edges drastically from the pictures I've seen before._

 

How much did the front panel cost/where did you get it done?


----------



## Fitz

Now I guess I have to tell you guys how it sounds eh? Well I'll do my best, since I've had less than a day with it in its final form (and a few days with it mostly done), and my W5000s are now temporarily out of service for a week while Greg (phergus_25) puts a nicer high-gloss finish on them.

 Well, my main goal was to make the Darkvoice, which already synergized well with the W5000s, to be completely rebuilt with every aspect designed with the W5000 in mind and operate flawlessly with them. Did I succeed? Comparing it to the LD2+ which Greg graciously brought over (and I was a little surprised at just how damn good it sounds), I'd say the answer is a resounding *YES!!!*

 I had my worries at various stages, and even a small panic when I was trying to critically listen Friday night after adding the last mods. Turned out that being tired from working on it all night, and my blood pressure being high from the tension, my hearing was playing a lot of tricks on me. It was also revealing a lot of background details (and flaws) on the recordings that I didn't ever notice in the past.

 "Enough jibber-jabberin'! Tell us how it sounds!"

 Ok! So let's start at the top, shall we?

 High-frequency extension, compared to stock and earlier mod stages, has completely filled out. There's no smearing or rolling off of the highs at all, they're all there in their full glory. But what's not there is the harshness or brightness that usually comes with it. One of my biggest musical pet peeves is the overuse of cymbals, that usually comes out harsh and singey, and usually makes me want to tone down the highs just to compensate. I don't feel any need to try to EQ them down, even with their increased presence. Even at ridiculous volumes, they don't fatigue.

 Moving on down to the midrange, the body and soul of the music, is something that has to be heard to be believed. It's liquid smooth, taking full advantage of the all-tube design, and with the W5000 has the best tonal balance of any combination I've listened to extensively (very short auditions at meets notwithstanding). You might think this sort of sound is going to be muddy or somewhat lacking in detail, right? Wrong! As Greg kept saying, compared to the brighter LD2+, there is just a lot more background detail present. After letting the tubes warm up and casually listening for a bit to adjust to headphone listening, the sound is obscenely transparent. I wouldn't necessarily call it lifelike or having a big soundstage, but the headphones just disappear and the music flows. Simple as that.

 Now the bass. Yes, one of the original catalysts for this series of mods that has put my wallet on the slimfast diet. I actually had to switch away from my previously preferred Chatham 6AS7G to an RCA 6AS7G, but the bass is full, extended, and completely in control. It has the extra impact and bloom when the recording calls for it, and makes itself scarce when the recording doesn't call for it (helps immensely with strings, where too much added warmth can make them sound fake). To use a potentially more well known track than a lot of my music, the drums on the intro to Dream Theater - 6:00 hit you with enough authority to take over a small country. However, the amount of control the combination has over the bass keeps it from being a basshead's favourite.

 So that covers the frequency response, yup, but we all know there's way more to sound quality than just the FR. I'm gonna take the tone down a notch and go to soundstage. The soundstage, even with crossfeed, is not as big as some other combinations, but is better described as intimate. On some recordings I don't mind a big soundstage, but in general I prefer the smaller club sized soundstage to a hall or cavern sized soundstage. I can easily live without the extra depth and width to the soundstage for those recordings.

 But what I cannot live without is DYNAMICS. One of the things that made me fall in love with the Darkvoice was its ability to handle dynamics effortlessly. The mods have not sacrificed any of that, and in fact have made it even better. I have mainly been using some tracks by Ani DiFranco to check dynamics, since if the system is not good enough a sudden hard guitar strum or loud lyric can pierce your ears. Well those sudden peaks have even more power to them than before, letting them really get your attention when the song commands it, but are cleaner, clearer, and do not pierce, singe, or make you want to turn down the volume to compensate. And on the opposite end, the combination sounds just as good at very low volumes, not getting veiled and muddy. I still have to get some more time in to compare dynamics with other artists, but I'm overjoyed at the improvement. I didn't even think they could possibly be better than they were when I had my Darkvoice stock.

 As an extention of this, fatigue is a word the Darkvoice does not know. I have to conciously pay attention to my volume level, because the complete lack of fatigue or harshness at high volumes can let the volume run away out of control. The normal "falling apart" of the sound as a warning sign to listening too loud isn't there anymore. It's actually uncanny, to be able to crank the volume up way past your normal loud rock-out levels, and not wince or immediately want to turn it down. Good thing I have an SPL meter, so I'll be able to make notes on what sort of SPLs I usually get at different positions of the volume knob.

 Alright, I'm starting to get tired here, so I can't remember what I've gone over yet or not. So if you want to know more about anything specific, feel free to ask, and I'll do my best from memory until my W5000s are back in service.

 FINAL VERDICT: Darkvoice THA336FM + W5000 will create a tantric state of constant eargasms. Side effects may include a complete lack of desire to move from your chair, lack of concern over one's own basic necessities such as food and water, fatigueless high volume induced hearing loss, shrinkage of the wallet, and swelling of the credit card.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Azure* 
_How much did the front panel cost/where did you get it done?_

 

I got it done at frontpanelexpress.com, and paid a little over $60 + shipping for it. (me: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, wallet: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 It would've been about the more common $40 for a panel, but I had to have threaded screw holes and large cutouts made on the back side for it to 'stealth' the real panel that the components actually mount to. I could've also saved a few more bucks by doing the engravings a little differently by foregoing the red on the 'FM', and making them all use the same sized engraving bit.

 I'm really impressed with how it turned out for having a lot of high-tolerance work required in a small space, though.


----------



## upstateguy

Hi Fitz

 Brilliant job, stunning! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So we can get a better idea of the sound, would you be able to compare/contrast using your M^3 as a base line? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Regards

 USG


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *upstateguy* 
_Hi Fitz

 Brilliant job, stunning! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So we can get a better idea of the sound, would you be able to compare/contrast using your M^3 as a base line? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Regards

 USG_

 

I'll be sure to do some more detailed comparisons with the M3 when I get my W5000s back in service, but let me just say this: I do not like the M3 anymore.


----------



## phergus_25

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_I'll be sure to do some more detailed comparisons with the M3 when I get my W5000s back in service, but let me just say this: I do not like the M3 anymore. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I will do my best to get them done soon, I know how it is to get your amp done, then no phones to listen to. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 After a few hours listinign last night I deff love these K501s.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *phergus_25* 
_I will do my best to get them done soon, I know how it is to get your amp done, then no phones to listen to. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 After a few hours listinign last night I deff love these K501s._

 

I'm actually surprised at how good the DT801s sound on it right now. It wont be anywhere as difficult as the M³ + W5000 I had to listen to for a few weeks. But I'm glad you like the K501s, they mate well with the MS-1s as complementary headphones.

 Oh, and before I go into any more detail on the THA336FM here, I've started a new thread for all info specific to it (and I'll have _much_ more detailed modding info there):
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2333151


----------



## Torm

Wow! Very, very nice!
 Makes me wish this was DYI kit!
 Since you practically rebuilt the whole thing, sans the PSU - how hard do you think it would have been to build it all from scratch, without the DV chassis? (obviously it is a help - but you also mention it is a very tight fit).


----------



## DDQ

Mr. Jian Liu, our Dark voice dealer, asked me to share this message:


> 我是黑嗓的出口代理，您的黑嗓336就是在我这里购买的。今天看到headfi上有一些
> ebay的黑嗓卖家，我想说明的是，我和厂家保证，出口到国外的黑嗓，只有我一家授权
> 代理在做。任何ebay上销售的336，都只能是私自从中国把的220v的机器带到国外进行
> 销售，而不是厂家根据各国电压订做的版本，他们是没有售后保证的。所以国外336的
> ...


Roughly translated:

 ... I saw on headfi tday that there are some ebay darkvoice sellers. I along with the manufacturor, want to clarify that I'm the only authorized dealer to export Darkvoice out of China. Any 336 on ebay are 220V sample brought from China, not manufactured according each country's specs, and without any manufacturer warranties. In order to take advantage of manufacturer's warranty, all exported 336 has to be purchased through me. Besides, the 220V machnes cannot work in 110V nor 240V environment...

 Jian Liu
 Aug 27

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DDQ* 
_Has anyone seen this listing on ebay: Darkvoice 336 220V It went for $152.50 ($60 shipping)_


----------



## echo1

Well fritz and everyone I ordered the parts. 
 I used a couple diff. parts than Fitz but generally followed the mods he did.

 1.A 1uf Dynamicap instead of solen
 2. WE(Western ELECTRIC REMAKES) Sockets instead of teflon.
 3.Riken Ohm on the grid resistor.
 4.Mills wirewound for the cathode resistor on the 6sn7.
 5.6as7g cathode resistor stayed the same for now.Trying to get some gold series from ohmite but cant find a retailer yet.
 6. Used the same military spec IRC resistors on the rest.
 7.Ordered the same nichicon 330uf for the high value coupling caps.
 8.Dont know if I want to tackle the p-to-p crossfead.
 9. Alps maybe.
 10. Did not do the cathode bypass since I switched to DC. No tubes hum now at all and the SQ did not take a hit..I like the Soviet 6h13c on DC Best.
 11. Used the same Nichicon power caps.Replaced power supply resistors to Mills and Xicon



 Hi Fritz, do you think the alps helped the SQ any or just a more even volume control?
 Also your DV looks awesome. I will not even aprouch that level of work.You Are a professional.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_Well fritz and everyone I ordered the parts. 
 I used a couple diff. parts than Fitz but generally followed the mods he did.

 1.A 1uf Dynamicap instead of solen
 2. WE(Western ELECTRIC REMAKES) Sockets instead of teflon.
 3.Riken Ohm on the grid resistor.
 4.Mills wirewound for the cathode resistor on the 6sn7.
 5.6as7g cathode resistor stayed the same for now.Trying to get some gold series from ohmite but cant find a retailer yet.
 6. Used the same military spec IRC resistors on the rest.
 7.Ordered the same nichicon 330uf for the high value coupling caps.
 8.Dont know if I want to tackle the p-to-p crossfead.
 9. Alps maybe.


 Hi Fritz, do you think the alps helped the SQ any or just a more even volume control?
 Also your DV looks awesome. I will not even aprouch that level of work.You Are a professional._

 

I can't really be sure because it was difficult for me to get the correct volume level on the Darkvoice with the W5000s before. I do think it's worth it regardless to put a logarithmic taper pot in instead of the linear one now, or mod the current one to behave more like a log pot.

 And thanks for the positive comments. I'm really glad it turned out as well as it did, because I've never done any point to point work this extensive before. I got really lucky by having so much time between parts orders to figure out how I was going to do things


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Torm* 
_Wow! Very, very nice!
 Makes me wish this was DYI kit!
 Since you practically rebuilt the whole thing, sans the PSU - how hard do you think it would have been to build it all from scratch, without the DV chassis? (obviously it is a help - but you also mention it is a very tight fit)._

 

It'd probably be a lot easier to build a new one in a larger chassis. But I hate doing casework with a burning passion, and part of the fun to me was keeping it all in the original chassis.


----------



## echo1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_I can't really be sure because it was difficult for me to get the correct volume level on the Darkvoice with the W5000s before. I do think it's worth it regardless to put a logarithmic taper pot in instead of the linear one now, or mod the current one to behave more like a log pot.

 And thanks for the positive comments. I'm really glad it turned out as well as it did, because I've never done any point to point work this extensive before. I got really lucky by having so much time between parts orders to figure out how I was going to do things 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I havent taken off the curcuit board for the volume pot yet. Do you know if the alps will drop in to it or if not,will the pin arangements be the same?


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_I havent taken off the curcuit board for the volume pot yet. Do you know if the alps will drop in to it or if not,will the pin arangements be the same?_

 

It didn't look like it would fit with the PCB. You'd have to solder the wires to the pins on the Alps. Looking at the Alps from the front, the ground would go on the left, the output (to the tube socket) in the middle, and the input (from the RCAs) on the right.


----------



## echo1

Ok thanks, you have been treasure for info. for me.


----------



## Fitz

I should also mention, you'll want to have the two left pins both electrically connected together, to both the ground from the RCA inputs and the bare solid core grounding wire beside the volume pot.


----------



## echo1

The 2 resistors that you have on the alps pot in your picture I cant see on mine unless there under the board where I cant see them. Could you help me with this?
 If I need them could you tell me the values?


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_The 2 resistors that you have on the alps pot in your picture I cant see on mine unless there under the board where I cant see them. Could you help me with this?
 If I need them could you tell me the values?_

 

You don't need to worry about those for your Darkvoice. I made other small tweaks and changes for some of the resistors.


----------



## echo1

Ok thanks.I will have my wife add it in the morning before they ship.
 Thats it then except for the green cathode resistors.
 Ohmite makes a gold series cathode here-
http://www.ohmite.com/whatsnew/new_audiogold.html 
 but I cant find any. I am going to call them tomorrow if I get home soon enough.


----------



## echo1

You know I have never found the darkvoice to be hard to listen to at loud volumes. I have to be real carefull that I dont damage my hearing now. So I cant waite to get this done so I can have my first eargasm.


----------



## echo1

Fitz where did you get the alps pot and what is the product number please..... I tried to see the product number in your picture but could not find a match. I must be searching for the wrong product serial or id number.I tried alps 5386. 
 Thanks


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_Fitz where did you get the alps pot and what is the product number please..... I tried to see the product number in your picture but could not find a match. I must be searching for the wrong product serial or id number.I tried alps 5386. 
 Thanks_

 

It's a 100K Alps RK27. I bought it from Electrum Audio, but I think Parts Connexion has it too. Tangent and AMB only have the 50K varieties last I looked.


----------



## echo1

Fitz I ordered the alps pot from the dealer you suggested. I am now done with parts. So its onto a dac as soon as I recover from this.Wallet empty but a grin on my face


----------



## Giant2eviL

Few days ago, i bought darkvoice 336i, micro amp, sennheiser cable, rca cable from Jian Liu. We had a very nice conversation. I am so eager to wait for the amp next week.... should i change those tube?


----------



## echo1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Giant2eviL* 
_Few days ago, i bought darkvoice 336i, micro amp, sennheiser cable, rca cable from Jian Liu. We had a very nice conversation. I am so eager to wait for the amp next week.... should i change those tube?_

 

yes


----------



## echo1

I just bought a new DAC DA7.2 from Eddie Wu. He will send it out Tuesday. These are new items that he is selling but it sounds good according to the few who have them.Now I need a usb or pcma optical out.

 Oh by the way I bought this with my lunch money. Literally.My employer told us we had to work through our lunches with no breaks a few years ago. There is a Calif. law prohibiting this. Well there was a big court case here and it was ruled that mining doesnt have a exemption from the law like they were informing us.Well today I got paid all the backpay they owed me. So I got my lunch money.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Bye


----------



## echo1

I also bought a EPoX EP-EX5330N mini PC with a 3100+ CPU AMD Sempron with 512 megs ram and a 200 gig hard drive to use as a music server.It is set up to be able to play music without having to boot up windows. It says it will play files from the internal hard drive,USB,or CD-ROM without Windows. It has a spdif optical and coaxial out built into it allready. Our I can buy a sound card if I dont like it as it has a open PCI slot. It also comes with a remote control.
 Not bad for lunch money,eh?
 PS- My parts for the Darkvoice are starting to arrive.


----------



## $qwuzzy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_Not bad for lunch money,eh?_

 

wow - that's quite a lunch. lol

 sounds pretty good,


----------



## raylpc

I just bought a 336i. Can anyone recommend some good tubes for K701 and DT880? I mostly listen to jazz, vocal, new age and pop.


----------



## echo1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *$qwuzzy* 
_wow - that's quite a lunch. lol

 sounds pretty good,_

 

$1100.00 dollars in lunch money
 Way Cool


----------



## Giant2eviL

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_I also bought a EPoX EP-EX5330N mini PC with a 3100+ CPU AMD Sempron with 512 megs ram and a 200 gig hard drive to use as a music server.It is set up to be able to play music without having to boot up windows. It says it will play files from the internal hard drive,USB,or CD-ROM without Windows. It has a spdif optical and coaxial out built into it allready. Our I can buy a sound card if I dont like it as it has a open PCI slot. It also comes with a remote control.
 Not bad for lunch money,eh?
 PS- My parts for the Darkvoice are starting to arrive._

 

This is my first time to know "play music without having to boot up windows". Is that some sort of magic? How do you do that?

 PS2- My Darkvoice is on his way. hehehe...


----------



## jdimitri

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Giant2eviL* 
_This is my first time to know "play music without having to boot up windows". Is that some sort of magic? How do you do that?

 PS2- My Darkvoice is on his way. hehehe..._

 

I think it has it's own music player built in, taking files from the HD for music
 Music OS built into the motherboard maybe..
 (making stuff up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 )


----------



## Giant2eviL

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_I just bought a new DAC DA7.2 from Eddie Wu. He will send it out Tuesday. These are new items that he is selling but it sounds good according to the few who have them.Now I need a usb or pcma optical out._

 


 Where do you get the reviews? is it a usb DAC. Well, how much u spend for this plus shipping? I guess shipping will be quite expensive... please let me know how to make Darkvoice sound really awesome for classical music and i am using laptop as a source and HD650. Thats all i have now.


----------



## SLCanhead

As you can see by my modified signature, I am now a Darkvoice THA336i owner. I am running a 1952 Sylvania 6sn7 "bad boy", right now. 

 A few small issues in receipt:
 1) wrong plug (unit is correct voltage - I had another plug to use)
 2) a few tiny nicks, could have been during a customs check or something along those lines
 3) no tubes! (I had to order a Sovtek 6as7G and I already had ordered a couple of 6sn7 tubes in anticipation of my amp's arrival)

 Jian Liu is going is already taking care of my issues (except I just found out about the plug - I will email later today).

 So far (very early on - 2 mins usage): HD650 bass is clean/detailed in relation to my Ming Da...not quite the impact. This is bringing out the highs/air. No veil - it's weird listening to these cans sounding like they do...not so lush, clean/clear sound. Nice detail, fun listen! I will post again, once I get some time in this unit. It's very early to tell how it will all pan out...

 I also have a mid 1940s Ken-Rad VT-231 clear glass (in anticipation of some K701s), but I will try this one w/the HD650s, too.

 Note: Listening to Stevie Wonder - Original Musiquarium I, Disc 2

 I am enjoying it, so far!


----------



## Nugget

These things still going for $300 shipped to the US? I'm torn between a Darkvoice and an H5 -- totally different amps, I know, but both appealing in their own way (to me, at least).


----------



## SLCanhead

I paid 310 shipped. I started in solid state (speaker setup), but tubes just have that "something" that grabs me sonically - I like the body/texture of the instruments and tubes just sounds "truer" to me. I like the classic style of tubes (asthetically) and the ability to roll them for sonic adjustments. People's preferences differ, obviously, but I am definitely pleased - right off the bat. It sounds great...acoustic guitars just sound great on this setup (but, then again, so do the rest of the instruments).


----------



## Nugget

That's exactly it. I came here two weeks ago looking for an amp for both music and gaming. Gaming called for SS, so I put aside the cash for the H5.

 Then I listened to an Audio Valve RKV powering a pair of RS-1s, and it was frickin' amazing. Tubes just seem perfect for jazz and classical, which I listen to more than anything else. So I'm a bit stuck.

 I figure I'll do what everyone around here seems to -- mull it over for three weeks, make a sudden impulse buy, and eventually wind up with both.


----------



## randytsuch

I just sat down, and read through the 32 pages of this thread this afternoon. I was thinking about building a tube amp, but for $300, if this is as good as advertised, it is cheaper than most kits, and no work.

 Should I go for it?
 Current cans are K340's and DT880's. But, I currently listen mainly to my K1000's, driven by a modded Jolida 102B. 

 My current can amp is a pimeta, but I plan to finish a dynahi pretty soon (taking much too long).

 BTW, if I bought it, I would most likely eventually mod it, at least upgrade the PS section, and the coupling caps and pot.

 Randy


----------



## SLCanhead

Question for US/110V Darkvoice owners:

 Did you receive the correct power cable (110V) w/your amp? The distributor is telling me that Darkvoice doesn't have 110V power cords to send w/the US spec amps. I received a non-US spec cable. This makes absolutely no sense. I can go purchase a power cable, but I just want to find out what others experienced.

 Thank you for any response(s).

 SL


----------



## DDQ

I don't think anyone received the right powercord. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SLCanhead* 
_Question for US/110V Darkvoice owners:

 Did you receive the correct power cable (110V) w/your amp? The distributor is telling me that Darkvoice doesn't have 110V power cords to send w/the US spec amps. I received a non-US spec cable. This makes absolutely no sense. I can go purchase a power cable, but I just want to find out what others experienced.

 Thank you for any response(s).

 SL_


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SLCanhead* 
_Question for US/110V Darkvoice owners:

 Did you receive the correct power cable (110V) w/your amp? The distributor is telling me that Darkvoice doesn't have 110V power cords to send w/the US spec amps. I received a non-US spec cable. This makes absolutely no sense. I can go purchase a power cable, but I just want to find out what others experienced.

 Thank you for any response(s).

 SL_

 

They're telling you the truth, we all got the same strange power cord you got.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *randytsuch* 
_I just sat down, and read through the 32 pages of this thread this afternoon. I was thinking about building a tube amp, but for $300, if this is as good as advertised, it is cheaper than most kits, and no work.

 Should I go for it?
 Current cans are K340's and DT880's. But, I currently listen mainly to my K1000's, driven by a modded Jolida 102B. 

 My current can amp is a pimeta, but I plan to finish a dynahi pretty soon (taking much too long).

 BTW, if I bought it, I would most likely eventually mod it, at least upgrade the PS section, and the coupling caps and pot.

 Randy_

 

It's a wonderful match with the K340's. aznsensazian recommended it to me because of the K340 synergy, and he was absolutely right!


----------



## echo1

[img=http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/2954/1000488oz7.th.jpg]
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/2999/1000483iv8.jpg


----------



## sacd lover

I have two questions for Darkvoice owners .... one .... what do you feel is the amps two or three biggest strengths? Two, what two things would you change to improve the sound quality of the amp if you could change something?


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_[img=http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/2954/1000488oz7.th.jpg]
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/2999/1000483iv8.jpg_

 

Holy crap, you did it! How's it sound? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sacd lover* 
_I have two questions for Darkvoice owners .... one .... what do you feel is the amps two or three biggest strengths? Two, what two things would you change to improve the sound quality of the amp if you could change something?_

 

For me...

 Strengths:

 1. It uses readily available tubes and doesn't require matching pairs or quads, so rolling has a lot of options and is very easy.

 2. It can drive most low Z phones reasonably well in its stock form.

 3. The sound is neither slow and mushy (too warm/"tubey") or dry and harsh (too bright/"SS-like"), and has amazing clarity, dynamics, and tonal balance. Soundstage isn't the biggest around though, which can be bad or good depending on one's preferences.

 3.5 Even way past sane volume levels the sound doesn't distort or otherwise fall apart, without fatigue even at those levels either.


 Changes:

 1. The volume pot is completely wrong, and has a severely restricted usable range. Any normal audio pot would do better. (For me I had ~15 degrees of soft-loud range of usable volumes, and after modding got ~180 degrees of usable range)

 2. Output caps form a high-pass filter on deep bass frequencies with very low Z phones, although changing to bigger caps pretty much necessitates electrolytics due to size constraints.

 3-174. See the link in my sig.


----------



## swt61

Fitz you are coming to the Austin meet Oct. 7th with your new baby right? It's just a few states away!

 Echo1 how's that Citypulse sounding? It looks absolutely yummy inside and out! Even though my Zhaolooser101 is incredible, I still wanna pull the trigger on a Citypulse 'cause they look so damn nice! It's not discrete output is it?

 And congrats to both of you on some very impressive Darkvoice rebuilds!


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_Fitz you are coming to the Austin meet Oct. 7th with your new baby right? It's just a few states away!

 Echo1 how's that Citypulse sounding? It looks absolutely yummy inside and out! Even though my Zhaolooser101 is incredible, I still wanna pull the trigger on a Citypulse 'cause they look so damn nice! It's not discrete output is it?

 And congrats to both of you on some very impressive Darkvoice rebuilds!_

 

LOL. I actually would if I could afford to go to distant meets. I'd love to get to meet more of the loons on here and try out even more insane systems. Once I make the big bucks, I'll travel to meets all over, evangelizing the heavenliness of the Darkvoice mods, converting scores of Head-Fiers to the crystal side.


----------



## echo1

It sounds reall good Fitz.The double whamy of firing it up with the rebuild and the new Dac for the first time together shure had a positive impact.
 I dont know if it has discreet output, I bought it from Eddie Wu and it isnt listed in the specs.
 Thanks for the positive remarks everyone. It has been a fun adventure.
 Now lets see my hobbies in order 
 First it was Building Models
 Then it was finding girls
 Then it was finding Beer
 Then It was a Boat
 Then Train sets
 Then computers
 Now this
 It never ends
 Now on to the next pursuit,who knows?


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_It sounds reall good Fitz.The double whamy of firing it up with the rebuild and the new Dac for the first time together shure had a positive impact.
 I dont know if it has discreet output, I bought it from Eddie Wu and it isnt listed in the specs.
 Thanks for the positive remarks everyone. It has been a fun adventure.
 Now lets see my hobbies in order 
 First it was Building Models
 Then it was finding girls
 Then it was finding Beer
 Then It was a Boat
 Then Train sets
 Then computers
 Now this
 It never ends
 Now on to the next pursuit,who knows?_

 

The next logical pursuit would be a girl wearing Omega II's, building a model on a boat, while her train set controlled by her computer, circles around her bringing her a fresh beer.


----------



## raylpc

Where do you guys get the 6sn7 and 6as7/6080? I could only find a few 6as7/6080 in ebay.


----------



## roy_jones

Am I correct to assume that this amp is not ideally suited to RS-1's or other low impedence phones in it's original state? I know this has been asked a ton of times, but it seems that most people have bought it with the intention of using it with high Z headphones, like the K340 etc...

 Are there better tube amp options in a relatively similar price range (below $400 US) for the RS-1?


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roy_jones* 
_Am I correct to assume that this amp is not ideally suited to RS-1's or other low impedence phones in it's original state? I know this has been asked a ton of times, but it seems that most people have bought it with the intention of using it with high Z headphones, like the K340 etc...

 Are there better tube amp options in a relatively similar price range (below $400 US) for the RS-1?_

 

It really boils down to how important sub-bass in the 20-50Hz range is to you. You'd hit the -3dB point around 50Hz with 32 ohm Grados by my calculations, so it's will have a significant roll-off of the sub-bass, but the mid-bass will be left alone.


----------



## Superpredator

This seems to be the everything-Darkvoice thread, so: 

 Does anyone else's LED blink in and out kind of randomly? There seems to be zero connection with the sound, which pours out steady and beautiful. 

 Also, how hot is this puppy supposed to run? I'm not used to tube amps... compared to the Corda Aria, which generally runs cool as ice cubes, the Darkvoice is WARM, like putting your hand on a cat after it's been napping all day.

 Edit: read above and solved my power cord question.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Superpredator* 
_This seems to be the everything-Darkvoice thread, so: 

 Does anyone else's LED blink in and out kind of randomly? There seems to be zero connection with the sound, which pours out steady and beautiful. 

 Also, how hot is this puppy supposed to run? I'm not used to tube amps... compared to the Corda Aria, which generally runs cool as ice cubes, the Darkvoice is WARM, like putting your hand on a cat after it's been napping all day.

 Mine also came with a Chinese power cord that I can't use, which was a bit surprising._

 

The LED is tied directly to the 6.3VAC supply for the heater filaments, so it shouldn't blink at all. There may be a bad solder joint on the LED leads that is just barely making contact.

 And after it's been warmed up, mine runs fairly warm, significantly more than my M3 that's biased pretty high, but much cooler than my speaker amp. I used to think it was a pretty hot running amp, but the LD2+ is like a toaster oven compared to the Darkvoice. A significant part of the heat is coming from the power resistors inside it, not just the tubes themselves (right by the rear vents on the bottom is one of the major hotspots). So your Darkvoice is just fine if it's at feline temps.


----------



## Superpredator

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_The LED is tied directly to the 6.3VAC supply for the heater filaments, so it shouldn't blink at all. There may be a bad solder joint on the LED leads that is just barely making contact.

 And after it's been warmed up, mine runs fairly warm, significantly more than my M3 that's biased pretty high, but much cooler than my speaker amp. I used to think it was a pretty hot running amp, but the LD2+ is like a toaster oven compared to the Darkvoice. A significant part of the heat is coming from the power resistors inside it, not just the tubes themselves (right by the rear vents on the bottom is one of the major hotspots). So your Darkvoice is just fine if it's at feline temps. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks Fitz! Maybe one day I can come over with a few grand and a loaf of bread. I'll make toast while you give the Fitz treatment to my amp.

 So far I am really digging this amp. It does good things for both the K340 and HD650. echo1 helped me out with some free starter tubes, and I'm monitoring a slow burn-in. The only problem now is I'm feeling the need for a decent DAC w/ USB. Oh, Head-Fi, you make me poor.


----------



## roy_jones

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_It really boils down to how important sub-bass in the 20-50Hz range is to you. You'd hit the -3dB point around 50Hz with 32 ohm Grados by my calculations, so it's will have a significant roll-off of the sub-bass, but the mid-bass will be left alone._

 

Thanks...

 I think I 'wanted' this amp to work well with Grado's so much that I almost convinced myself that that it would. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know a lot of people talk about the MF x-can v3 as another tube option in the $300 range for RS-1's, and it very well could be a great choice...but I'm hesitant to go in that direction for some reason. 

 It seems like all these high value for the dollar chinese amps are mostly designed for high impedence, high voltage requiring headphones. Someone tell these folks to give us low-impedence users a bargain that we can use, too....


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Superpredator* 
_Thanks Fitz! Maybe one day I can come over with a few grand and a loaf of bread. I'll make toast while you give the Fitz treatment to my amp.

 So far I am really digging this amp. It does good things for both the K340 and HD650. echo1 helped me out with some free starter tubes, and I'm monitoring a slow burn-in. The only problem now is I'm feeling the need for a decent DAC w/ USB. Oh, Head-Fi, you make me poor._

 

Mmmm... toast.

 I actually made a couple more minor changes tonight to mine, which resulted in Sound: +4, Safety: -1. Mostly just changing a previous experimental mod some.

 Let me know what DAC you end up going with and how it sounds. I'm solid for headphones and amp, but the Zhaolu doesn't have anything I've modded on it yet, so it doesn't have guaranteed residence in my system.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roy_jones* 
_Thanks...

 I think I 'wanted' this amp to work well with Grado's so much that I almost convinced myself that that it would. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know a lot of people talk about the MF x-can v3 as another tube option in the $300 range for RS-1's, and it very well could be a great choice...but I'm hesitant to go in that direction for some reason. 

 It seems like all these high value for the dollar chinese amps are mostly designed for high impedence, high voltage requiring headphones. Someone tell these folks to give us low-impedence users a bargain that we can use, too...._

 

Well they did upgrade the Darkvoices slightly to accomodate the majority of other low Z phones better, but it just isn't quite enough to do _everything_ on Grados. It can still sound great with them, but it just isn't operating at 100%, and is even worse of a problem for somebody who really digs TEH BASS. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Bass is a funny thing though, it took me a while to even notice that my amp was rolling off the bass a tad when it was still stock (40 ohm W5000s) and I've typically preferred headphones with less overall bass, but yet I use bookshelf speakers that can make the entire room shake at sub-bass frequencies.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_Mmmm... toast.

 I actually made a couple more minor changes tonight to mine, which resulted in Sound: +4, Safety: -1. Mostly just changing a previous experimental mod some.

 Let me know what DAC you end up going with and how it sounds. I'm solid for headphones and amp, but the Zhaolu doesn't have anything I've modded on it yet, so it doesn't have guaranteed residence in my system._

 

Fitz my Zhaolu is a completely different animal with the Zapfilter2! And boy does it play well with La Scuro Voce (sorry Darkvoice just sounds better in Italian). I'm talkin' giant killer here! It'd be a snap for you.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_Fitz my Zhaolu is a completely different animal with the Zapfilter2! And boy does it play well with La Scuro Voce (sorry Darkvoice just sounds better in Italian). I'm talkin' giant killer here! It'd be a snap for you._

 

Sounds interesting, what exactly is it? I'd love to see how it plays with my Malluma Voĉo.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_Sounds interesting, what exactly is it? I'd love to see how it plays with my Malluma Voĉo._

 

It's a Zhaolu D2C with the amp and LED's takin' out, then in the space created is a Zapfilter2 discrete output board with it's own power supply. It's incredible. Here's a few links about it.

http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showt...181056&page=34

 Scroll down to the 8th post, then read on.

http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=197648


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_It's a Zhaolu D2C with *the amp and LED's takin' out*, then in the space created is a Zapfilter2 discrete output board with it's own power supply. It's incredible. Here's a few links about it.

http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showt...181056&page=34

 Scroll down to the 8th post, then read on.

http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=197648_

 

This poses a problem.


----------



## Superpredator

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_Mmmm... toast.

 I actually made a couple more minor changes tonight to mine, which resulted in Sound: +4, Safety: -1. Mostly just changing a previous experimental mod some.

 Let me know what DAC you end up going with and how it sounds. I'm solid for headphones and amp, but the Zhaolu doesn't have anything I've modded on it yet, so it doesn't have guaranteed residence in my system._

 

More changes?!

 As far as a DAC goes, I would like to go all-Chinese and pick up a Zhaolu. Problem is USB connectivity is pretty important for me. I'm also considering a Great March, though I haven't heard enough about it yet. I have an M-Audio Revo feeding the Darkvoice and I'm wondering if (and thinking I probably could) do better.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Superpredator* 
_More changes?!_

 

I only did it because I already had to crack it open to put in a 1/4" jack that stuck out a little further so the plug doesn't sit flush against the faceplate. I swear! It not like I _wanted_ to tweak it anymore!


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_This poses a problem._

 

 Why is that?


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_Why is that?_

 

Half of the reason for the Zhaolu is the headamp for quick listening or checking audio tracks for something without a real listening session. And I need to be able to switch inputs because sometimes I run a digital out from the soundblaster to it for gaming, but I'm planning on adding a CD player into the mix for listening to CDs I've gotten but haven't ripped yet.


----------



## Superpredator

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_I swear! It not like I wanted to tweak it anymore! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Sure ya didn't.


----------



## swt61

Yeah I know what ya mean. I have an input selector on my Sony JA20ES minidisc deck, so I run my CD player and computer soundcard into it and the digital out put of it into my Zhaolooser101.


----------



## apple_tree

want to know, is this amp suitable for low impedance headphone?


----------



## abs@nilenet.com

Yes, it sounds great with all the Grados that I throw at it such as HHF-1, HF-1, 325, and GS1000.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *apple_tree* 
_want to know, is this amp suitable for low impedance headphone?_

 


 Happy Listening!


----------



## apple_tree

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *abs@nilenet.com* 
_Yes, it sounds great with all the Grados that I throw at it such as HHF-1, HF-1, 325, and GS1000.




 Happy Listening! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Might get this but do you think its safe to buy it from Ebay? found someone selling it


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *apple_tree* 
_Might get this but do you think its safe to buy it from Ebay? found someone selling it_

 

I bought mine on eBay, but probably from a different seller.


----------



## apple_tree

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_I bought mine on eBay, but probably from a different seller._

 

I found from this http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1

 Same with you?


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *apple_tree* 
_I found from this http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1

 Same with you?_

 

No


----------



## futuro107

I bought from this powerseller: http://cgi.ebay.com/ZHAOLU-2-5-DAC-w...QQcmdZViewItem


----------



## echo1

I think I am done. No Wait, New Headphones!


----------



## swt61

Nice setup buddy! Uhmm I won't ask about the rubber glove on the desk.


----------



## swt61

Done? Can you tell me what that word means echo1? Is that some kind of technical jargin I've not heard before?


----------



## echo1

The glove is for the "Glass" Tubes.You know, for the Amp.
 I looked up done in Websters.
 Dictionary--
 It is a past participle :done
 –verb (used with object) 
 To accomplish; finish; complete: He has already done his homework.
 Thesaurus--
 Main Entry: done 
 Part of Speech: adjective 1 
 Definition: accomplished 
 Synonyms: a wrap*, all in*, all over*, brought about, buttoned up*, compassed, complete, completed, concluded, consummated, depleted, done in, done with, down, drained, effected, effete, ended, executed, exhausted, finished, fixed, fulfilled, over, perfected, performed, realized, rendered, set, spent, succeeded, terminated, through, used up, wired, wrought.
 ================================================== ================================================== ====================
 I hope this helps and can be added to the head-fi technical glossary.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 And thank you


----------



## pchong

I just finished reading this thread...took longer than I thought it would...my browser keeps crashing...but finished.

 Looks like a wonderful amp...and reasonably priced too...Other than a reference to a 337 in an earlier thread, any idea what other amps are made by the same manufacturer? Also, do they have a website?


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_The glove is for the "Glass" Tubes.You know, for the Amp.
 I looked up done in Websters.
 Dictionary--
 It is a past participle :done
 –verb (used with object) 
 To accomplish; finish; complete: He has already done his homework.
 Thesaurus--
 Main Entry: done 
 Part of Speech: adjective 1 
 Definition: accomplished 
 Synonyms: a wrap*, all in*, all over*, brought about, buttoned up*, compassed, complete, completed, concluded, consummated, depleted, done in, done with, down, drained, effected, effete, ended, executed, exhausted, finished, fixed, fulfilled, over, perfected, performed, realized, rendered, set, spent, succeeded, terminated, through, used up, wired, wrought.
 ================================================== ================================================== ====================
 I hope this helps and can be added to the head-fi technical glossary.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And thank you_

 












 SHOCKING!!! Dear God don't let this word out! The for sale forums would dry up, the sky would turn grey, and we'd all have to find better ways to spend our time and money. Can't you see what you're starting here?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pchong* 
_I just finished reading this thread...took longer than I thought it would...my browser keeps crashing...but finished.

 Looks like a wonderful amp...and reasonably priced too...Other than a reference to a 337 in an earlier thread, any idea what other amps are made by the same manufacturer? Also, do they have a website?_

 

Very good questions, I believe it's made by Orphean Sound Labs in China, but I'm not for certain. The 337 is the only other headphone amp I'm aware of that they make, at least it's the only other amp that Jian Liu made me aware of when I purchased my 336 from him.


----------



## pchong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_












 Very good questions, I believe it's made by Orphean Sound Labs in China, but I'm not for certain. The 337 is the only other headphone amp I'm aware of that they make, at least it's the only other amp that Jian Liu made me aware of when I purchased my 336 from him._

 


 Thanks. Is Jian Liu the maker or a middleman reseller? Do they have a website? Would be very interesting to see what they can do for an electrostatic headphone amp!


----------



## echo1

Heres one for sale on french ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.fr/Darkvoice-THA-337...QQcmdZViewItem


----------



## pchong

interesting. thanks.


----------



## Giant2eviL

_Click on it to see supersize photo!! hehe_





*I got my darkvoice for nearly a week. I have no regret to buy it and the sound is absolutely superb for me as this is my first amp. Hope, you guys enjoy like i do.*


----------



## Giant2eviL




----------



## apple_tree

Hi.
 Anyone using this amp with Senn HD595? How is it?

 or anyone can compare this amp with h5?


----------



## echo1

Why not I ask.HMMM


----------



## MrFaust

on the subject of DONE... I am as well. I am currently selling off some odds and ends to pay for a pair fo Grado SR-225's for my portable rig and then I am done. I will NOT be selling my DV-336i by any means. Nore my 701's or RS-2's. But as of last Tuesday I have a new bundle of joy to tIke all my time and money  Talk about "Sorry about your wallet." But this one gives me more hours of interaction than my audio setup now days. Plus she grows too


----------



## echo1

Congradulations on the new child.
 From Rod and family


----------



## swt61

Congratulations on your new baby girl Dad! Give her a few years, then get her started with some PX 100's.


----------



## compuryan

perhaps I am missing it, but I want to order this amp, and I have plenty of money. The only place I can find it is ebay shipped for over $350. I've seen all these chinese forums and translated them and much more, even been on the chinese 'ebay'. but really haven't had much luck. Where specifically can I buy one of these amps (110v), looking for anywhere <$250 shipped, but of course the cheaper the better. thank you.


----------



## Superpredator

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *compuryan* 
_perhaps I am missing it, but I want to order this amp, and I have plenty of money. The only place I can find it is ebay shipped for over $350. I've seen all these chinese forums and translated them and much more, even been on the chinese 'ebay'. but really haven't had much luck. Where specifically can I buy one of these amps (110v), looking for anywhere <$250 shipped, but of course the cheaper the better. thank you._

 

Most of us have been dealing with Jian Liu (check the first post in this thread for his contact info).


----------



## Fitz

Time to revive this thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm about 95% certain I've found my ultimate tube for the Darkvoice + W5000 combo. I've got to do a little more comparing and long term listening to be sure, but like I said, I'm 95% sure of it.

 If I do settle on it, I'll probably clear out most of the 6SN7's I've accumulated over the past few months. I'll have to get a tube tester to be able to get a rough idea on the condition of each one (I bought a lot used, and used some of them a lot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), but I'll let any other Darkvoice owners have first dibs on them at a fraction of market value. You'll need to have made a post somewhere in the past proving you own a DV, or send me a picture, just so no SP owners can try to swindle some sweet deals. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Anybody else found or think they've found the ultimate 6SN7 for their DV + phones? So far I think the older Ken-Rads are favoured for the K340s, but what about other phones?

 Edit: And while I'm in such a good mood, since I can't justify playing with my DV anymore, Superpredator if you want to cover the shipping I'll take a look at your DV to see what's going on with the LED and check for any other potential problems. I could also install my original mod that kills hum on all tubes, for just whatever the parts cost. Your call, since I know shipping wouldn't be as cheap as mailing a letter. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (I'd technically be taking a massive loss, but mods feel free to delete if this technically counts as advertising a sale or anything like that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## raylpc

Fitz, I'm glad that you have found your ultimate tube. Thanks for the good deals to the 336 community. I'm still looking for tubes for my k701 and dt880. 
 Here is my post.
http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showp...79&postcount=8


----------



## nichifanlema

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_Very good questions, I believe it's made by Orphean Sound Labs in China, but I'm not for certain. The 337 is the only other headphone amp I'm aware of that they make, at least it's the only other amp that Jian Liu made me aware of when I purchased my 336 from him._

 


 There's also THA332, IIRC....i think the 332's recently added to their lineup


 so, there are 336, 336i, 337, 337i and 332 now?


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *raylpc* 
_Fitz, I'm glad that you have found your ultimate tube. Thanks for the good deals to the 336 community. I'm still looking for tubes for my k701 and dt880. 
 Here is my post.
http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showp...79&postcount=8_

 

Well I'll make sure to let you know once I procure a tester and am able to sell my extra tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Funny thing is, the tube I've settled on as my favourite is the least expensive of all the ones I've been trying out, by a huge margin.


----------



## Teerawit

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_
 Funny thing is, the tube I've settled on as my favourite is the least expensive of all the ones I've been trying out, by a huge margin. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No I think you should keep searchin'.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Teerawit* 
_No I think you should keep searchin'._

 

Don't make me come up to Athens and pwn you like I always do.


----------



## raylpc

Fitz, have you tried swapping the power tube as well? Looks like people mostly talk about changing the 6sn7 tubes. So my question is: are the power tubes important to sound quality? or less important than the preamp tubes?


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *raylpc* 
_Fitz, have you tried swapping the power tube as well? Looks like people mostly talk about changing the 6sn7 tubes. So my question is: are the power tubes important to sound quality? or less important than the preamp tubes?_

 

I've tried a few different power tubes, and the differences are much more subtle than changing the driver tube. I didn't really find it worth the effort to keep experimenting with.


----------



## DennyL

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *raylpc* 
_Fitz, have you tried swapping the power tube as well? Looks like people mostly talk about changing the 6sn7 tubes. So my question is: are the power tubes important to sound quality? or less important than the preamp tubes?_

 

As I reported elsewhere on here, I started by trying different front tubes, and I had one that hummed. This got less ofter 30 hours of so of use, but didn't go away completely. Then I replaced the stock back tube with a GEC, and the hummy front tube (a Brimar) became completely silent. I'm now using GEC at the back and Brimar at the front, but I still have quite a few other tubes to try in the front when I get the time.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DennyL* 
_As I reported elsewhere on here, I started by trying different front tubes, and I had one that hummed. This got less ofter 30 hours of so of use, but didn't go away completely. Then I replaced the stock back tube with a GEC, and the hummy front tube (a Brimar) became completely silent. I'm now using GEC at the back and Brimar at the front, but I still have quite a few other tubes to try in the front when I get the time._

 

With the addition of a couple capacitors to the amp, you can make all tubes stop humming. S'great for tuberolling since you don't have to worry about whether a tube hums or not.


----------



## DennyL

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_With the addition of a couple capacitors to the amp, you can make all tubes stop humming. S'great for tuberolling since you don't have to worry about whether a tube hums or not. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'd love to know the details of that mod, as I think I'd be capable of doing it myself if I knew the details. Could you tell me, or have you already posted this?


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DennyL* 
_I'd love to know the details of that mod, as I think I'd be capable of doing it myself if I knew the details. Could you tell me, or have you already posted this?_

 

I'm sure I've posted it somewhere with more useful info and pictures, I'll edit a link in here in a minute when I find it.

 In short all you need to do is put a couple 100uF/25V (or similar) capacitors across the cathode resistors on the front tube socket.

 Edit: http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showp...&postcount=325

 Man it's hard to believe my amp used to look like that inside.


----------



## DennyL

I haven't forgotten the tremendous work Echo1 did in buying the first DarkVoice on these forums.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DennyL* 
_I haven't forgotten the tremendous work Echo1 did in buying the first DarkVoice on these forums._

 

He bought the 4th 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But he was the 1st to find the current dealer.


----------



## swt61

Atlanta seems to be where the Darkvoice discoverers hail from. I know Fitz and aznsensazian have had theirs for quite some time. aznsensazian's comments on the synergy with his K340's prompted me to look into buying one. Echo1 made the process effortless.


----------



## Nugget

So which one of you is responsible for driving up the price?!


----------



## SLCanhead

I remember reading (on the Audioasylum forum) that the Sovtek/Svetlana 6as7 tubes (current production) are actually a better tube for a power application than the old NOS (6as7); to find more details, do a search on that site. This may have been related to performance, not necessarily sonics. As compared to the 6080, I am not sure. In reading posts related to other amps, I have heard the same that has been reported (at least once) on this string: swapping the power tube will not make as much of a sonic difference as the preamp tube.

 I plan to pick up a couple of variants to experiment w/the power tube, at some point, but it's not high on my priority list. I am running a Sovtek 6as7.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* 
_Atlanta seems to be where the Darkvoice discoverers hail from. I know Fitz and aznsensazian have had theirs for quite some time. aznsensazian's comments on the synergy with his K340's prompted me to look into buying one. Echo1 made the process effortless._

 

Listening to Minh's Darkvoice at the Atlanta meet (back in April?) is what prompted me to hunt down and buy my own Darkvoice and sell my Aria. It wasn't enough to really win me over for the K340, though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nugget* 
_So which one of you is responsible for driving up the price?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Surely not me! I only drove up the price of my own Darkvoice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SLCanhead* 
_I remember reading (on the Audioasylum forum) that the Sovtek/Svetlana 6as7 tubes (current production) are actually a better tube for a power application than the old NOS (6as7); to find more details, do a search on that site. This may have been related to performance, not necessarily sonics. As compared to the 6080, I am not sure. In reading posts related to other amps, I have heard the same that has been reported (at least once) on this string: swapping the power tube will not make as much of a sonic difference as the preamp tube.

 I plan to pick up a couple of variants to experiment w/the power tube, at some point, but it's not high on my priority list. I am running a Sovtek 6as7._

 

From my understanding, the 6H13Cs and new production 6AS7s are more reliable and have slightly higher limits than NOS 6AS7s, but it's not really an issue with the Darkvoice since it it's not running the power tube anywhere near full capacity.


----------



## SLCanhead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_Listening to Minh's Darkvoice at the Atlanta meet (back in April?) is what prompted me to hunt down and buy my own Darkvoice and sell my Aria. It wasn't enough to really win me over for the K340, though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Surely not me! I only drove up the price of my own Darkvoice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 From my understanding, the 6H13Cs and new production 6AS7s are more reliable and have slightly higher limits than NOS 6AS7s, but it's not really an issue with the Darkvoice since it it's not running the power tube anywhere near full capacity._

 

This is what I remember, from Audioasylum (concerning the new production 6as7s). Thank you for the clarification (and how it applies to the Darkvoice).


----------



## Fitz

Alright, I snagged a cheap tube tester off fleabay, so I should have it by the end of the week. If all goes well with it I'll get my tubes tested and available for you guys next weekend.


----------



## Fitz

Okay shmokey. El Cheapo tester seems to be working as expected, so I'll sort out the tubes into: strong, decent, and GARBAGE. I dunno if I'll get far enough checking tonight to post an ad up yet though, since for each tube I have to first test that it's still good enough to use, then check it for noise/distortion in my own amp (sorry, can't check for hum with my amp anymore), then take pictures of it. And I have a _lot_ of tubes to do this for.


----------



## echo1

Ya well I havent chimed in to this forum thread for awhile now.Howes everyone doin? 
 Liken your Darkvoices?Yes?
 I spent a good part of a day researchin to find a seller and it seems to have worked well.I would call and ask"can you speak Engish" and got hung up on untill I got to Jain.Its been a fun ride though. Little hard on the wallet.But there even selling them back on Ebay now. 
 So whos going to buy the 337?


----------



## Fitz

Got all the 6SN7s checked and listed in the FS forums. Just a heads up.


----------



## jamesb

I just ordered one of these from the seller on french eBay. should be here by the end of next week.


----------



## Dhw

I just ordered a 336i from Jian Liu so that I have something to listen to until my Heed CanAmp arrives (sometime in January I believe). I've never owned a tube amp before (aside from my guitar amp) so maybe I'll actually like this more than the Heed. I'm only going to keep the one I like best, so either a CanAmp or Darkvoice will be in the F/S forums...well...in January...

 Where's a good place to get a power cable for the 110v? (not looking for anything fancy at the moment...I just want it powered)


----------



## Gradofan2

Obviously... all of us, who are "vicarious headfiles," will certainly, be anxiously anticipating you're comparative perspective on the two...


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just ordered a 336i from Jian Liu so that I have something to listen to until my Heed CanAmp arrives (sometime in January I believe). I've never owned a tube amp before (aside from my guitar amp) so maybe I'll actually like this more than the Heed. I'm only going to keep the one I like best, so either a CanAmp or Darkvoice will be in the F/S forums...well...in January...

 Where's a good place to get a power cable for the 110v? (not looking for anything fancy at the moment...I just want it powered)_


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where's a good place to get a power cable for the 110v? (not looking for anything fancy at the moment...I just want it powered)_

 

Any place that sells electronics should have one.


----------



## Dhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any place that sells electronics should have one._

 

Cool...I'm glad to hear it's nothing fancy that I have to track down...

 As for doing a comparison between the Heed and Darkvoice...I'll give it a shot when I get the opportunity (next year), but I can't promise that I have golden ears...probably not tin ears, but likely somewhere in the copper to silver range... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Hopefully there will be a meet sometime before then at which the two can be compared by more experienced head-fiers...


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cool...I'm glad to hear it's nothing fancy that I have to track down...

 As for doing a comparison between the Heed and Darkvoice...I'll give it a shot when I get the opportunity (next year), but I can't promise that I have golden ears...probably not tin ears, but likely somewhere in the copper to silver range... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hopefully there will be a meet sometime before then at which the two can be compared by more experienced head-fiers..._

 

Yeah, it's the same kind of power cord used on a PC or flat panel TV.

 And good luck with the comparo! Having multiple people do the comparison will definitely help give more solid impressions of the two.


----------



## arielext

Fitz,

 Thank you for selling those great tubes for us darkvoice owners!
 Here's mine together with the Sylvania 6SN7WGT and Philips 6080WC


----------



## Dhw

Ack! The waiting game is killing me.

 Just thought I'd share...


----------



## Fitz

The amp _still_ hasn't arrived?


----------



## Dhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The amp still hasn't arrived? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I was told it would take two weeks to get one in 110v about two weeks ago...hopefully it will ship soon!


----------



## jamesb

My darkvoice is finally here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 i've only listend for less than an hour but it's clear that its far, far better than the headphone jack on my old sony reciever.
 only listen to stuff from my computer so far, will try with the lenco latter.


----------



## Dhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamesb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My darkvoice is finally here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 i've only listend for less than an hour but it's clear that its far, far better than the headphone jack on my old sony reciever.
 only listen to stuff from my computer so far, will try with the lenco latter._

 

Sweet! How long did it take to get to you?


----------



## arielext

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamesb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My darkvoice is finally here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 i've only listend for less than an hour but it's clear that its far, far better than the headphone jack on my old sony reciever.
 only listen to stuff from my computer so far, will try with the lenco latter._

 

oh my

 if I could go back in time and had the pleasure of going from a receiver jack-out to the darkvoice .... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I envy you


----------



## jamesb

i've been listening to some vinyl on my turntable and everything is just incredibly liquid and smooth. vocals were always the 595s strongest point - now they are really magical.
 595s are still not bass monsters, but in combination with the darkvoice and the lenco the bass is now deeper and fuller.
 i now understand what people mean by 'tube sound'. warmth is quite a good way to describe it, but to someone who has not heard it it implies reduced treble, which is not what i heard, so i prefer to call it liquid sounding - not that that makes much sense to describe sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i ordered it about 2 weeks ago from a seller on ebay in france. it should have been here on moday(that would have been 6 working days), but i was out (and my lazy flatmates were asleep and didn't answer the door
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ). i phoned the number on the card and i got a recorded message saying they automatically try to deliver things again the next working day. for some reason they didnt do that though, so i had to ring them again on wednesday, by which time the next possible delivery date was friday.
 it's times like this i wish i had a car - it was sitting in the parcel force depot a couple of miles away for most of the week!

 my old reciever isn't bad - its a bit better than the headphone out on my eMac, which in turn is better than the ipod mini. the main problem it had was a noticible hiss.

 the problem now is i am starting to think about what i should upgrade next: DAC/cartridge/phonostage/new tubes


----------



## SLCanhead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamesb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i've been listening to some vinyl on my turntable and everything is just incredibly liquid and smooth. vocals were always the 595s strongest point - now they are really magical.
 595s are still not bass monsters, but in combination with the darkvoice and the lenco the bass is now deeper and fuller.
 i now understand what people mean by 'tube sound'. warmth is quite a good way to describe it, but to someone who has not heard it it implies reduced treble, which is not what i heard, so i prefer to call it liquid sounding - not that that makes much sense to describe sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i ordered it about 2 weeks ago from a seller on ebay in france. it should have been here on moday(that would have been 6 working days), but i was out (and my lazy flatmates were asleep and didn't answer the door
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ). i phoned the number on the card and i got a recorded message saying they automatically try to deliver things again the next working day. for some reason they didnt do that though, so i had to ring them again on wednesday, by which time the next possible delivery date was friday.
 it's times like this i wish i had a car - it was sitting in the parcel force depot a couple of miles away for most of the week!

 my old reciever isn't bad - its a bit better than the headphone out on my eMac, which in turn is better than the ipod mini. the main problem it had was a noticible hiss.

 the problem now is i am starting to think about what i should upgrade next: DAC/cartridge/phonostage/new tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Unfortunately, I think you are heading toward upgrading all those things! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I really think one of the fun parts of this amp is the ability to roll tubes...there are quite a variety of great NOS (or good condition used) 6sn7 tube, up front. Rolling the 6as7 tube likely will not yield much change, sonically, so I would place that as a lower priority (unless you feel inclined to do so - I have a Sovtek in mine, because they forgot to ship my amp w/tubes...lol). 

 I am not that familiar w/the 595s (I had the HD650s), but if you want a kick in the "bass pants", then a Ken Rad VT-231 staggered plate (either clear or black glass - they are the same tube structurally and sonically) would really do the trick (while maintaining good low end detail). It will also open things up sonically (better soundstage/separation, instrument tone/texture/body, etc). If you search, you can find them for close to 20 bucks on eBay, in good tested condition - sometimes you will have to bid on them, but IMO it's worth the price break from the outrageous prices that many dealers charge for NOS. This is my fav tube (especially w/my K701s).

 There are a lot of other choices out there, so I suggest you take a look at this thread, which is super-informative:

http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showt...highlight=6sn7

 Note: The above link contains loads of info; in my case, it took a while to really start to decipher between different tubes. However, it really helped me to narrow down what I thought would be good tubes in my application.

 This really is a wonderful amplifier! It just makes you want to take the next steps closer to total audio nirvana!!!

 I am totally into some Steely Dan on my K701s, right now...

 Have fun and good luck!!!

 SL


----------



## Dhw

Whoo! Just got the word that mine will ship in the next few days!


----------



## swt61

Boy this club is gettin' bigger all the time. Hope you guys are as happy as I am with this incredible little amp.


----------



## propheci

I just got mine today from DHL. I bought it on eBay a while ago. They had a little trouble with testing so the person threw in a free 6080. I wasn't in a huge hurry to get the amp so that was pretty nice. Overall, it was a good experience for a foreign purchase. They use next-day DHL.

 Haven't had time to test it yet. I'll be comparing it to the Gilmore Lite with my K701 and HD595.


----------



## phergus_25

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SLCanhead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Unfortunately, I think you are heading toward upgrading all those things! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I really think one of the fun parts of this amp is the ability to roll tubes...there are quite a variety of great NOS (or good condition used) 6sn7 tube, up front. Rolling the 6as7 tube likely will not yield much change, sonically, so I would place that as a lower priority (unless you feel inclined to do so - I have a Sovtek in mine, because they forgot to ship my amp w/tubes...lol). 

 I am not that familiar w/the 595s (I had the HD650s), but if you want a kick in the "bass pants", then a Ken Rad VT-231 staggered plate (either clear or black glass - they are the same tube structurally and sonically) would really do the trick (while maintaining good low end detail). It will also open things up sonically (better soundstage/separation, instrument tone/texture/body, etc). If you search, you can find them for close to 20 bucks on eBay, in good tested condition - sometimes you will have to bid on them, but IMO it's worth the price break from the outrageous prices that many dealers charge for NOS. This is my fav tube (especially w/my K701s).

 There are a lot of other choices out there, so I suggest you take a look at this thread, which is super-informative:

http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showt...highlight=6sn7

 Note: The above link contains loads of info; in my case, it took a while to really start to decipher between different tubes. However, it really helped me to narrow down what I thought would be good tubes in my application.

 This really is a wonderful amplifier! It just makes you want to take the next steps closer to total audio nirvana!!!

 I am totally into some Steely Dan on my K701s, right now...

 Have fun and good luck!!!

 SL_

 

Just as a word from personal experiance, I found that when I rolled in a new powertube things cleaned up alittle. I dont have a DV but my amp uses the EXACT same power tube, same manufacturer. There is a nice kind that can be had 4 for ~30 on ebay. Ask Fitz for the info on em.
 -greg


----------



## Dhw

Meh! Mine has been "inbound to customs" since Saturday...I imagine they have a big of a backup with the holidays and lots of shipping to people abroad. At least that's what I tell myself when I'm not thinking "Way to name it something that sounds like a terrorist plot...'Operation Darkvoice'...they've probably destroyed my amp with a controlled explosion by now."

 EDIT: When any of you ordered from Jian Liu, how did he ship it? He's sending it to me via EMS, as opposed to DHL which seems to be the choice of the ebay sellers. I'm wondering if there may be a customs duty issue that has arisen...so has anyone gotten an amp from him via EMS successfully?

 Thanks!


----------



## echo1

EMS shipping is used to the USA,then DHL takes over and does the USA delivery.I believe the same thing happens the other way but opposite,EMS takes over when a shipment arrives in China from DHL.


----------



## Dhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_EMS shipping is used to the USA,then DHL takes over and does the USA delivery.I believe the same thing happens the other way but opposite,EMS takes over when a shipment arrives in China from DHL._

 

That's what I was thinking, but then I checked usps.com and was able to track my package there. I'll go check out the DHL site again...maybe something has changed? I just hope it comes soon, as I'll be heading back home to CT for break soon


----------



## Dhw

I can't track the package on the DHL website at all. I was reading about customs and public vs. private couriers, and it said one of the reasons using a private courier is more expensive than using the regular mail system is because private couriers (like DHL) often include in their price customs brokering which helps facilitate the process. If Jian Liu used EMS -> USPS, then there was probably money saved on shipping at the expense of speed.

 Well...he sent it last Tuesday, and it reached the US on Saturday...and even though NYC isn't far from Boston, maybe it's just taking more time. If I don't hear from the Post Office tomorrow, I'll just go in and check to see if maybe they forgot to leave the note in my box to go pick it up...


----------



## Dhw

Whoo! My Darkvoice just came in! I've got it plugged in and am listening through my HD600s to some classical...

 Right now I have nothing to compare it to, but wow...I forgot how enjoyable a good set of headphones can be!!!


----------



## echo1

Now get yourself some nice NOS tubes.


----------



## keanej6

after a long day of working two jobs, i come home to big box from china. this is what was inside, and i couldn't have been happier. 









 so far, i'm loving it - straight out of the box. anyone here pairing them with some grados? for those who are are any of you using impedance cables? do they make a noticeable difference?


----------



## laxx

hey, i'm pretty interested in this and am wondering where and who you guys are contacting to buy this amp. and also, how much are you guys paying shipped to conus?

 and has anyone paired the darkvoice with a musiland md10 dac?


----------



## keanej6

the very first post in this thread by the op includes the contact information on how to get your hands on one. Mr liu was who i kept in contact with and he was very helpful and quick with responses up until i got the amp in the mail. make sure you specify what voltage you want yours to come as. the price for mine was $310 shipped to the u.s.


----------



## Azure

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Holy crap, you did it! How's it sound? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 For me...

 Strengths:

 1. It uses readily available tubes and doesn't require matching pairs or quads, so rolling has a lot of options and is very easy.

*2. It can drive most low Z phones reasonably well in its stock form.*

 3. The sound is neither slow and mushy (too warm/"tubey") or dry and harsh (too bright/"SS-like"), and has amazing clarity, dynamics, and tonal balance. Soundstage isn't the biggest around though, which can be bad or good depending on one's preferences.

 3.5 Even way past sane volume levels the sound doesn't distort or otherwise fall apart, without fatigue even at those levels either.


 Changes:

*1. The volume pot is completely wrong, and has a severely restricted usable range. Any normal audio pot would do better. (For me I had ~15 degrees of soft-loud range of usable volumes, and after modding got ~180 degrees of usable range)*

 2. Output caps form a high-pass filter on deep bass frequencies with very low Z phones, although changing to bigger caps pretty much necessitates electrolytics due to size constraints.

 3-174. See the link in my sig._

 

What do you think of the Darkvoice with extremely "high Z" headphones, such as the K340?

 What exactly is this volume pot problem that you speak of? Has anybody else experienced this?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well they did upgrade the Darkvoices slightly to accomodate the majority of other low Z phones better, but it just isn't quite enough to do everything on Grados. It can still sound great with them, but it just isn't operating at 100%, and is even worse of a problem for somebody who really digs TEH BASS. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Bass is a funny thing though, it took me a while to even notice that my amp was rolling off the bass a tad when it was still stock (40 ohm W5000s) and I've typically preferred headphones with less overall bass, but yet I use bookshelf speakers that can make the entire room shake at sub-bass frequencies. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

So, the Darkvoice is a bit bass-shy?

 Has anybody compared the Darkvoice to an M3? Which sounds warmer in the highs?


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Azure* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What do you think of the Darkvoice with extremely "high Z" headphones, such as the K340?

 What exactly is this volume pot problem that you speak of? Has anybody else experienced this?

 So, the Darkvoice is a bit bass-shy?

 Has anybody compared the Darkvoice to an M3? Which sounds warmer in the highs?_

 


 I have no issues with the volume pot, though I understand what Fitz is saying. It's not really a SQ issue IMO. But yeah a better volume pot would be a nice upgrade.

 NO! That's the beauty of tubes. Find the right tube for the sound you're after. The Kenrad Black glass VT231 puts out mucho bass! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Darkvoice is much better suited to K340's than the M3 IMO. The M3 doesn't have the power of the Darkvoice, and the DV is much more neutral (yeah I know neutral isn't what you think of with a tube amp).


----------



## Azure

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The M3 doesn't have the power of the Darkvoice_

 

Really? I thought the M3 was one of the more powerful SS amps, almost up there with the Dynahi? From some searching I did a lot of people seemed to agree that the M3 is a power amp and can easily drive the K340s.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Azure* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Really? I thought the M3 was one of the more powerful SS amps, almost up there with the Dynahi? From some searching I did a lot of people seemed to agree that the M3 is a power amp and can easily drive the K340s._

 

Sorry. I confused it with the Millet hybrid, never mind. I have not heard the M3.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Azure* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anybody compared the Darkvoice to an M3? Which sounds warmer in the highs?_

 

I remember what happened the last time a certain somebody asked me to compare the Darkvoice and M3...


----------



## Azure

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I remember what happened the last time a certain somebody asked me to compare the Darkvoice and M3..._

 

Huh? Was that certain "somebody" me (I'm honestly not quite sure...)? Are you referring to the second biggest disappointment thread?


----------



## Dominat0r

Just got my DV guys and im in love to say the least. Its not stock tubes however. I tried them and they just didnt sound as nice. I have been going back and forth between my DV and the Heed. I can tell you that to my ears, i like the sound of the tubes better. Not that the Heed doesnt sound good. Its amazing for such a little device. I just love the warmth that i get with tubes.


----------



## keanej6

i was gonna get a heed but i'm glad i was patient and experimented with the h5 first. i compared my h5 to my bro's ld2+ and really liked his more so i upgraded to the DV which i have now and i love. dt 990 arrives tomorrow according to ups!


----------



## Azure

HighLife - Very nice. I'm thinking about getting a Darkvoice as well to power my K340s. Please post impressions if possible


----------



## Dominat0r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Azure* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HighLife - Very nice. I'm thinking about getting a Darkvoice as well to power my K340s. Please post impressions if possible 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 The 340s and DV was a great combo. The last meet (12-2) i got to hear Boomana's woody 340s and the DV. I liked it soo much, i bought her DV today at the mini meet. The woody 340s and the Heed are hers. These are only on loan for a week so i can test it between tube and SS. 

 Honestly..i love the warm sound you get from the tubes and the 340. I really enjoy any acoustic type of music with this combo. You can really hear the pluck of the string. Its a small soundstage though, maybe this is due to the woody, i dont know. I have never heard a normal 340 so i can tell you how they differ. The bass is nice, clear and controlled...maybe in certain music it might get alittle flabby. It all depends on how you like it. I much rather nice clear controlled bass over the flabbiness. The hi's are great..clear and crisp. They do at times seem like they are going to get harsh..however they still hold that nice clear sound through the range of music. The mids sound great, maybe a tad recessed..however i enjoy that. 

 All in All, its a nice combo. I think you will be pleased with it depending on your genre of music. Not that i dont think it would perform great in all. I know people tastes for music are different so.


----------



## budgetphile

Hi,

 Anyone got in touch with Jian Liu lately?

 I have emailed him at ljra2@hotmail.com a couple of days ago (three actually) inquiring after the 336i and the new 332 and haven't heard from him yet.

 If anyone is in regular contact with him could you please pass on to me his current contact details?

 Thanks


----------



## Dominat0r

What other tubes are you guys using and how would you rank them....thoughts on sound differences?

 Just want to get a idea of what everyone has tried.


----------



## Fitz

I use RCA 6SN7GT "Grey Glass" and Svetlana 6N13S in my amp. I tried a lot of tubes, some very expensive, but those were the ones I ended up preferring for my own system.


----------



## Dominat0r

Right now i have a Sylvania 6N7GTB and something tronic 6080. 

 what were you impressions on some other tubes...not that i want to change...cause i like my setup. Just wondering what else there is out there and how they rank up to one another =)


----------



## swt61

My favorite tubes for the K340 are the Kenrad Black glass VT231/Raytheon 6080 because of the beautiful bass the Kenrad supplies, but a very close runner up is the Tung-Sol 6SN7GT/Sovtek 6AS7G, for the absolutely incredible lushness it gives to female vocals.


----------



## budgetphile

I just heard from Jian Liu, I also asked him about the DarkVoice 332, and he said that it is much better than the 336i, now I am in two minds, the 336i seems to be well proven, with a fairly wide user feedback, while the 332 is a new unit that has not been extensively commented upon.

 The price difference between the 336i and the 332 is not that great.

 I have an Prodigy 7.1 Hi Fi sound card that I will be running the amp off, would I be better off getting the 332 and running it straight from the sound card or getting the 336i and buying a cheap DAC?

 I have a Sennheiser HD-580 headphone.

 I wish I knew enough about tube amps to make my mind up.


----------



## Dominat0r

has anyone ever worn out a tube with their DV?


----------



## Fitz

Well am I no longer part of team Darkvoice, after selling my main rig. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I still plan to stick around here on Head-Fi, and help anybody with any questions about the Darkvoice, but I'll only be working from memory.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well am I no longer part of team Darkvoice, after selling my main rig. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I still plan to stick around here on Head-Fi, and help anybody with any questions about the Darkvoice, but I'll only be working from memory._

 

My flag's flying at half mast. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What are you amping your F5000's with now?


----------



## Fitz

I'm not. See sig.


----------



## swt61




----------



## bigman18

I am running a 5692 red base and the stock 6as7. Has anyone tried the sovtek or Svetlana 6as7?
 let me know.
 Thanks


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bigman18* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am running a 5692 red base and the stock 6as7. Has anyone tried the sovtek or Svetlana 6as7?
 let me know.
 Thanks
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

Yes I was using the Sovtek. I liked it just fine.


----------



## Dominat0r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bigman18* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am running a 5692 red base and the stock 6as7. Has anyone tried the sovtek or Svetlana 6as7?
 let me know.
 Thanks
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 


 how is that 5692 in the front? Can you compare it to a GE and RCA 6SN7GTB?

 Right now im using a RCA 6AS7G in the back and a RCA 6SN7GTB in the front. Very nice musically, seperation is nice, bass is decent, a tad light in that area. However the cleaness of the sound is nice. If i switch the back to a GE 6080 (6AS7G straight glass) it seems to lose a small amount of detail and seperation, but gains some punchie'ness to lows and mids. 

 I also have a GE 6SN7GTB for the front, i can really tell a difference between this and my RCA.


----------



## Norman

Sorry if this sounds stupid, bare with me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Would any of these work with a 336i?
 6AU6 (EF94)
 ECF802
 6CB6A
 PCF805
 EL36
 EH90
 EAA91
 6AV6
 EF85
 ECF80
 ECF82
 PCC189
 ECF802

 A seller on a local auction site selling 171 of the mentioned nos valves for around $0.50usd each.


----------



## Dominat0r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Norman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry if this sounds stupid, bare with me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Would any of these work with a 336i?
 6AU6 (EF94)
 ECF802
 6CB6A
 PCF805
 EL36
 EH90
 EAA91
 6AV6
 EF85
 ECF80
 ECF82
 PCC189
 ECF802

 A seller on a local auction site selling 171 of the mentioned nos valves for around $0.50usd each._

 

I dont think any of those would work....i could be wrong though...

 Its 6AS7/6080 in the rear (HAWT) and 6SN7 in the front.....


----------



## MrFaust

Well I am no longer a member of the Darkvoice 336 club. I just sold mine to fellow a head-fier who will get to use it more than I have been. While I love the amp, I wasn't able to use it much now with having a new baby in the house.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrFaust* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I am no longer a member of the Darkvoice 336 club. I just sold mine to fellow a head-fier who will get to use it more than I have been. While I love the amp, I wasn't able to use it much now with having a new baby in the house._

 

Iceroid?

 You know I'm going to send you a blown up framed photo of my new DV project amps once they're done simply as a torture, because I have a reputation to uphold.


----------



## bigman18

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HighLife* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how is that 5692 in the front? Can you compare it to a GE and RCA 6SN7GTB?

 Right now im using a RCA 6AS7G in the back and a RCA 6SN7GTB in the front. Very nice musically, seperation is nice, bass is decent, a tad light in that area. However the cleaness of the sound is nice. If i switch the back to a GE 6080 (6AS7G straight glass) it seems to lose a small amount of detail and seperation, but gains some punchie'ness to lows and mids. 

 I also have a GE 6SN7GTB for the front, i can really tell a difference between this and my RCA._

 

Its sounds very musical Im listening with Sr 80 ipod and I fill some distortion or muddiness in the bass I dont know if tis the amps or the cans.


----------



## Dominat0r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bigman18* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Its sounds very musical Im listening with Sr 80 ipod and I fill some distortion or muddiness in the bass I dont know if tis the amps or the cans._

 


 Right now im trying my GE 6SN7GTB and my RCA 6AS7G and really like this combo. The detail is still nice, seems to have longer boom type feel, but hardly takes away from mids. 

 Im curious, i really want to try a Kenrad or Tung-sol in the front and sovtek in the back. Dam though, thats prob a good 100$ in tubes hehehe


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HighLife* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Right now im trying my GE 6SN7GTB and my RCA 6AS7G and really like this combo. The detail is still nice, seems to have longer boom type feel, but hardly takes away from mids. 

 Im curious, i really want to try a Kenrad or Tung-sol in the front and sovtek in the back. Dam though, thats prob a good 100$ in tubes hehehe_

 

Those are definitely my favorite tubes, you should give them a try. You could always sell those 2 tubes without a loss.

 Wait 'til you boys see my "Darkvoice On Steroids" setup. It'll even scare the hell out of Schwarzenegger! Might be a little while before it's done, but you can't rush these things. Oh did I mention Fitz is the genious in charge?


----------



## echo1

I have a rca smoke glass,hytron,ken rad and a few othes that work with the darkvoice that dont hum or nothing. I switched to 12 volt for the front tube. I would like to sell them reasonabley. Anyone interested? I also have a Ken-rad,Rca(harmonic-needs a c-ring)and another that i dont remember. If anyone would like the whole bunch let me know And I will sell them as a bunch reasonably.I will take a photo if anyone shows interest. PM ME


----------



## Dominat0r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a rca smoke glass,hytron,ken rad and a few othes that work with the darkvoice that dont hum or nothing. I switched to 12 volt for the front tube. I would like to sell them reasonabley. Anyone interested? I also have a Ken-rad,Rca(harmonic-needs a c-ring)and another that i dont remember. If anyone would like the whole bunch let me know And I will sell them as a bunch reasonably.I will take a photo if anyone shows interest. PM ME_

 

Kenrad a black glass VT231? Tested it by chance and how much? I might be interested.


----------



## echo1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a rca smoke glass,hytron,ken rad and a few othes that work with the darkvoice that dont hum or nothing. I switched to 12 volt for the front tube. I would like to sell them reasonabley. Anyone interested? I also have a Ken-rad,Rca(harmonic-needs a c-ring)and another that i dont remember. If anyone would like the whole bunch let me know And I will sell them as a bunch reasonably.I will take a photo if anyone shows interest. PM ME_

 

I put these on the darkvoice topic since these were all the tubes I used in the darkvoice.When I went to 12.6 volts I bought several Mullard tubes and they sound fantastic. They cost me about 20 dollars apiece at 12.6 volts but cost a fortune at 6.3 volts. I have the tubes I like and will not go back to 6.3 volts so all my 6.3 are just sitting around taking space.Dont take me wrong the 6.3 tubes are still good, but just cant compete with the Mullard-marconi line of tubes for smoothness. Thats why there so expensive. If you can afford them there great at 6.3.


----------



## echo1

Yes its v-231. Not nos. About 75% if I remember right. If you want a 1-2 punch, I would suggest the ken rad and the rca smoke glass also. The rca is smoothest you can get for a american made tube. The ken rad is not as smooth, but does have the bass for shure. But I am looking for someone to take the whole bunch,6sn7gt and 6as7g. How about 50 bucks buys the whole bunch. Tube rolling on the cheap. I probably spent well over 100 dollars on these when I was tube rolling.Before anyone makeing a offer let me get a picture up. If no one is intersested I will sell seperately.


----------



## echo1

Oh ya I am the one who started this thread and found the dealer in China. I also compleltly rebuilt the Darkvoice ALA Fitz so I know this amp


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Those are definitely my favorite tubes, you should give them a try. You could always sell those 2 tubes without a loss.

 Wait 'til you boys see my "Darkvoice On Steroids" setup. It'll even scare the hell out of Schwarzenegger! Might be a little while before it's done, but you can't rush these things. Oh did I mention Fitz is the genious in charge?_

 

Chuck Norris and Jack Bauer will both be terrified of your amp once I'm done with it. It's gonna take a little while to get the necessary permits to make it legal for me to mail it though.


----------



## echo1

I will drop the price on these 1 dollar a day untill sold.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They are 50 dollars paypal
 OOps the 2 tubes that rolled on me are a cbs/hytron and a hytron.The one on the bottum is a hytron red label, the one on the right looks like a RCA with grey plates.Dont let the Hytron label turn you off there dam fine tubes.There reviewed well in the 6sn7 tube discription-review on head-fi


----------



## echo1

Are you all wondering should I wait and get a price break. Or if I do,what if someone gets in there first and I miss a good deal.But if I jump in now am I missing saving money. What if its a steal at 40 if I just wait?Or 30?Or is it a steal at 50?What are you all going to do?


----------



## echo1

49 dollars for Darkvoice owners. I want to buy a nano reef tank.PM me


----------



## Dominat0r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_49 dollars for Darkvoice owners. I want to buy a nano reef tank.PM me_

 


 AWESOME....Nano's are soo great. I have a friend who owns a fish supplier (Carib Fish and Invert's in Fort Lauderdale). I have a small nano tank, which is 5 gallon Eclipse tank with about 15lbs of live Fiji rock...1 small Percula Clown fish with his home (anenime, bad spelling). I got a Peppermint shrimp, tons and tons of feather dusters, pylops and various other inverts. Also go about 20 turbo snails cleaning the bottem =) Its been going for about 6 years now total. Ill have to snap off some pics of it for ya.

 I know you know, but this is another case to say sorry for your wallet. Even with a friend getting me everything...ive still spent at least 1000$ over the past few years. At first my salt content was to high, then replaced the water, was to low...had nothing in the tank but inverts for about 1 year. Then the filter gets its alge on it and it starts to balance out. Just really hard to keep a 5 gallon tank at perfect temp, since there is such a small amount of water, it temp goes up and down with ambient, just a few degrees higher and you kill your inverts.

 If fact, i have a old picture...this is when i finally was able to get a fish in there and live, he has been alive for about 4 years.


----------



## echo1

Ya please some picts.I have done salt water before but just fish. A mini-reef will be something new to me.
 But also I see that in town there is a 36 gallon bow front with glass top for 150 and am thinking of that also.But the nano reef are neat because there self contained and a lot cheaper to start. In town there is a nano cube 12 gallon for 129 I am looking at. Also amazon has a 24 gallon nano cube with stand for 288.So many desisions. Any suggestions for a first tank to start?Any online suppliers that I can get a good price mailorder for a nano reef?


----------



## echo1

I see from your post a larger tank will be easier to maintain temp control. For that reason the 36 gallon bow front may be the best way to go and just start out slow.


----------



## Dominat0r

Well, first look for a known tank brand. I like Eclipse myself cause its all housed in 1 small package. I have a friend with another brand, his has a small sump type filter. It cost him around 200-300$ for the tank and the stand and i will find out what it is exactly when i see him on friday. 

 If you want a whole package, with inverts and all, its best to go to a local pet store and get to know the salt water fish guy there. Most places around here have a small tank thats fully setup and running, just ask how much stuff is in there.


----------



## Dominat0r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see from your post a larger tank will be easier to maintain temp control. For that reason the 36 gallon bow front may be the best way to go and just start out slow._

 

Big tanks are great...just remember, the bigger the tank, the bigger the cost. If you going to do a reef tank, good lighting is a must. If your tank is a High (like 25H) its going to be harder for the reef/inverts to get light. Its really up and down...A 30W would prob be good, not to deep where the light will not reach the bottem, but big enough to fit about 45lbs of live rock. 

 If you just want inverts and corals, then all you need is good moving water and lots of light. The more light, remember the more alge..which you will prob get some turbos to clean. I wasnt able to keep a fish alive in my tank for more then a month during the first year...i guess the water just wasnt right yet...however the alge and coral/inverts thrived.


----------



## echo1

OK I am going to start checking online for a sump,lighting,protien skimmer online for the 30w and see if my wife will pawn her diamond ring for it


----------



## Dominat0r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK I am going to start checking online for a sump,lighting,protien skimmer online for the 36 and see if my wife will pawn her diamond ring for it
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Here is to help you get started...GL and sorry for your wallet hahaaha

http://www.nano-reef.com/


----------



## echo1

Well I need a new hobby to distract me form the audio one. I found that when I upgrade my sytem I allways go WOW! it sounds great. Then after awhile I start finding fault somewhere and wonder if such and such equipment well have a little better detail,or bass, or mids or something. I have to stop somewhere and say thats it.
 This is a audio distraction for the allways want more type personality.None of this hobby will ever be perfect and its a never ending quest.So I am saying goodbye and I am off the audio treadmill.


----------



## echo1

And thanks for the help


----------



## abs@nilenet.com

I received Fitz' former THA336FM a few days ago and have been listening to it quite a bit with various tubes and all I can say is 'WOW'. That output coupling capacitor mod definately has opened up the low end of the bass spectrum with my Grados. With a ken-rad vt-231 and a bendix 6080wb the bass with my RS-2s is as plentiful as with my DT990 '05! It may even be more 'substantial' than my PPX3 SLAM! I need to do more listening/tube rolling to compare them in more depth. This amp is truely a piece of head-fi art. Fitz for president! <j/k> 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Happy Listening!


----------



## pentagonwizard

Echo, send you a PM and no response. Are those tubes still available? How much now including shipping? Oh and "dibs" also.


----------



## phergus_25

Nano reef tanks, thats somehting I can talk...


----------



## Dominat0r

Nice tank....what size? Is that fiji live rock?

 I decided to get a slightly bigger tank...so my 5gallon eclipse is going to be a small sick fish tank. The one im getting is called a Auqapod, its 12 gallons. Its got the lights needed though and everything is connected. Even has a small sump type filter.


----------



## phergus_25

the live rock is a mix, had it going for about 3 years.
 that was in a 20, not my tank is a 10, about 20 kinds of coral and the clam, 150 watts MH, and the other tank is a 65 gal with 150 gal sump.
 -greg


----------



## Dominat0r

Right now i just have a percula clown and a chalk bass. I just got a flaming scallop to thats really neat. My tank been going for a really long time 5+ years in a 5gallon tank. I keep trying to get pics of my coral banded, but he just sits in side the rock till evening light comes on then he is out...but if i flash him, i never get a good solid pic of him.


----------



## drkazndragon

What.... waaaay off topic guys....


----------



## Dominat0r

Well, back on topic....just got some tubes from a fellow head-fier (thanks John) and havent had a chance to really play with them. Right now im using a TFK 6080 and a Valvo 6080. Both look pretty much brand new to. They both have black plates in the middle and chrome topped. 

 Just picked up some MS1's in a trade to and have been playing with these and the new tubes. I love the sound....very nice so far. More to come soon.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HighLife* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, back on topic....just got some tubes from a fellow head-fier (thanks John) and havent had a chance to really play with them. Right now im using a TFK 6080 and a Valvo 6080. Both look pretty much brand new to. They both have black plates in the middle and chrome topped. 

 Just picked up some MS1's in a trade to and have been playing with these and the new tubes. I love the sound....very nice so far. More to come soon._

 

Hi HL

 Do you have some pics of those tubes?

 Regards

 USG


----------



## Dominat0r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *upstateguy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi HL

 Do you have some pics of those tubes?

 Regards

 USG_

 


 Sure thing, here are all my tubes...well, not counting the stock tubes. 

 First pic is the back tubes, from left to right....GE 6080 (6AS7G), Valvo 6080, RCA 6AS7G Coke bottle. 

 Second pic is my front tubes, minus stock. The left side is a Kenrad black glass and the right is a GE 6SN7GTB. 

 The 3rd pic is what i have in my DV right now. Its that TFK 6080. I cant really make out the writing atm since its on the back side and its pretty dam hot atm. So i cant take it out for a bit. The front is a RCA 6SN7GTB with black plates and green writing on the base.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HighLife* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sure thing, here are all my tubes...well, not counting the stock tubes._

 

Cool, thanks for the pics....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 USG


----------



## Dominat0r

Np mate...i will have some thoughts posted up soon. I still playing with my MS1's and testing them out. On my woody 580s, i really like the 6SN7GTB (RCA green writing) and the RCA 6AS7G (Coke bottle) combo. This gives the 580s a really nice tighter bass tone. If i swap the coke bottle RCA with the GE6080, there is much more detail, but the bass tone is alot flatter compared. I have tested the TFK 6080 and my RCA (green writing) with my MS1s last night. I have about maybe 4-5 hours through it so far. I really like the combo with jazz or classical. For rock, the bass sounds too flabby. The cymbals and guitar sounds soo rich and clear. Sometimes its nice to have headphones that have NO soundstage and another with a bigger soundstage. It really lets you fine tune what can to use for what type of music. I LOVE these MS1's for jazz or classical. I havent found the right tube combo for rock yet. To me right now, its just really nice cymbal and guitar reproduction, but its bass is alittle.........eh.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HighLife* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Np mate...i will have some thoughts posted up soon. I still playing with my MS1's and testing them out. On my woody 580s, i really like the 6SN7GTB (RCA green writing) and the RCA 6AS7G (Coke bottle) combo. This gives the 580s a really nice tighter bass tone. If i swap the coke bottle RCA with the GE6080, there is much more detail, but the bass tone is alot flatter compared. I have tested the TFK 6080 and my RCA (green writing) with my MS1s last night. I have about maybe 4-5 hours through it so far. I really like the combo with jazz or classical. For rock, the bass sounds too flabby. The cymbals and guitar sounds soo rich and clear. Sometimes its nice to have headphones that have NO soundstage and another with a bigger soundstage. It really lets you fine tune what can to use for what type of music. I LOVE these MS1's for jazz or classical. I havent found the right tube combo for rock yet. To me right now, its just really nice cymbal and guitar reproduction, but its bass is alittle.........eh._

 

When you say "there is much more detail, but the bass tone is alot flatter" what do you mean? I understand more detail, but what happens to the bass? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 USG


----------



## Dominat0r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *upstateguy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When you say "there is much more detail, but the bass tone is alot flatter" what do you mean? I understand more detail, but what happens to the bass? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 USG_

 

Its just not as present as the other. The bass tone doesnt carry very long which gives a slightly different sound. Kinda like if you were to turn down 55k-110k in your EQ a few notches each.

 I just put the Valvo 6080 in my DV. Its pretty similar to my GE6080 in terms of bass. The highs and mids are very detailed, but i find that the back really doesnt make a HUGE difference out of all of them. 

 Going to test out that Kenrad black glass soon, i got it from another member (thanks Boom). Its got a noticeable hum, but its just to sample the sound. 

 Also still using my MS1's atm....cant seem to get these off my head =) 

 " I got a fever.....and the only perscription.....is more Grado's!! "


----------



## pftrvlr

I have been listening to the headphone so long and so loud in the past three days that I can't tell any difference when I tube roll my amp. My ears are numb.


----------



## Dominat0r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pftrvlr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been listening to the headphone so long and so loud in the past three days that I can't tell any difference when I tube roll my amp. My ears are numb._

 

I know what you mean. My ear is starting to feel the pain of the bowls. However, they sound soo good compared to the comfy ones.


----------



## newguru

Anyone know how the PPX3 SLAM compares with the Darkvoice?


----------



## drkazndragon

im debating on whether to get the 336i or 332. so does anyone know if the number of tubes in use have anything to do with SQ? amp will mostly be used to watch movies/games. im quite the noob so laymen terms, haha....sorry.


----------



## keanej6

i notice that the rca, kenrad, and sylvania 6sn7 tubes are pretty popular, but i found the GE 6sn7 to be most pleasant. The GE seems to clear up and separate the instruments a bit, which works nice with the already 'laid back' 650s. The most pleasing thing, however, was how quiet and 'black' it is on my softer recordings. There is no hiss/distortion/hum with the GE that i've heard with some of the others i've tried. 

 The only power tube i've tried other than the stock 6n3(i think?) is the rca JAN 6080. i think i prefer the stock as i thought i found the rca to be just the slight bit fatugueing after long listens, but the difference was so slight that maybe there was no difference afterall. In any case i think the stock power tubes looks cool, so i just use that.

 i don't even know where i'm going with this, but i'll end with a few questions:

 can you guys recommend any power tubes? did you guys find that the differences between power tubes are so slight that's it's not really worth the time and money to tuberoll them or did any of you find one that's particularly above the rest? 

 before i found a pretty good deal from a head-fier i was interested in a 5692, but i thought i'd work my way up and see if i could even hear a difference (which i've discovered i can) in cheaper tubes before i bought an expensive one. have any of you tried the 5692 red/brown base tubes or any of the like? impressions? 

 thanks for reading and responding. tube amps are fun.


----------



## Dominat0r

No, your right pretty much...the back has little to do with sound change. Even the really expensive tube like the Bendex or something to that nature. The front tube has far more impact on the sound then the back. I have a few backs and its slight difference with all of them. I found that the RCA 6SA7G in the back gives the biggest difference in sound. Followed by the really expensive Bendex (200$ tube, not mine though).


----------



## pftrvlr

HighLife;2734551 said:
			
		

> The front tube has far more impact on the sound then the back. QUOTE]
> 
> That is correct. There are some specially make low gain front tubes (5751 as opposed to 12AX7) that can change this to some degree.


----------



## bigman18

The Dark Voice is fairly broken in Ive used it with grados 80 but it realy sounds good with my Etys 4. I orderd a set of UM2 what should I expect ?


----------



## LoweArt

After reading ALL the posts regarding the Darkvoice 336i I decided to hop on board the gravy train as it were and order one through Jian Liu !

 Thanks to all the people who have provided your comments and photos regarding this amp and tubes of choice to roll !


----------



## GoldWarlock

So what's the best way to order it?
 What's the current price?

 Sorry, I can't go thru 41 pages )


----------



## LoweArt

Contact: Jian Liu
 email: ljra2@hotmail.com
 Phone from usa: 011-86-791-809-3202
 Business name:Shan Buddhist nun 
 Address: 102 Bldg 33, Xianshi Road
 (city)Nanchang (state)Jiangxi
 China (zip)330001

 Current price I was quoted for 240 volt version was $310 ( delivered to Australia within 3 days ). 

 Some of the guys here paid through Western Union but he has since set up Paypal accounts.


----------



## swt61

I paid $310.00 each shipped, for the 2 that I bought a few months ago in 110 vt. to the U.S.A. That's the same price I paid for the first one I bought nearly a year ago.


----------



## GoldWarlock

Thank you guys!


----------



## LoweArt

WOW Swt61, have you got 3 of them now ?


----------



## Mrvile

I find ebay a little bit easier, through ebay and paypal everything is secure. I paid $320 for mine shipped, and it was delivered to my front door within five days.


----------



## Fitz

I originally bought mine new for about $215 shipped a year ago. Don't have it anymore.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LoweArt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WOW Swt61, have you got 3 of them now ?_

 

Nope. I sold my first 336 to warrior05, because I couldn't find a matching 336 for sale. Now I have two 336i's rewired and heavily modded as balanced monoblocks by the poster above me.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=234873


----------



## LoweArt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I originally bought mine new for about $215 shipped a year ago. Don't have it anymore. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

What's THIS Fitz ?????????????????? You got rid of that beautiful 336 FM ???

 Tell me it aint so !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Norman

I finally took the plunge and ordered my 336i 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Officially part of the 336i team but need to wait on a family member to bring it back to me from Hong Kong


----------



## keanej6

i went from the h5 to the 336i too and i was elated with the sonic improvement. i think you'll be very pleased in how they will make your 701s sing! be sure to get some 6sn7 tubes, you will definitely hear a difference from the stock ones.


----------



## GoldWarlock

by the way, is it a good match for AKG 271s?
 Is anyone using this combination?


----------



## LoweArt

YAH ! My Darkvoice 336i arrived today ! 

 Even with the stock tubes in this baby she sounds better than many 
 other amps I've demo'd ! Can't wait until I get those NOS tubes in her !


----------



## Norman

My Darkvoice 336i arrived at my cousin's place in Hong Kong today!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 He's going to send it over (to New Zealand) real soon..

Side note:
 People who are thinking/skeptical of buying one direct from Jian Liu, I'd just like to tell you it has been AWESOME to do business with Jian Lui.

*Very quick email replies
 Replies are informative
 No hassles with payment process (Paypal)
 Told me when the packaged was shipped and ETA*

 What more could you ask for?

 Thanks Jian!


----------



## swt61

He's a very trustworthy gentleman, and quite a nice guy. And now that he has PayPal I can't see any reason not to deal with him.


----------



## LoweArt

Norman is spot in his comments regarding Jian Liu, my experience
 through out the transaction was the same - just excellent !

 My NOS RCA tubes arrived this afternoon and I've been warming them up
 this evening - ooh baby very nice sound indeed and that's considering they
 still need a few hours on them !

 I had to open the case to have a peek inside and noticed that the wiring has been tidied up since the first version of the 336 ( no "i" suffix ) but I have to say as neat it may be the use of decent wiring like what Fitz did is much more preferable from my point of view for servicability ! To everybody else, it isn't going to matter. 

 This unit is DEAD silent, no hum what so ever ! It's even quieter than my Mapletree Audio Design Ear + purist !!!!

 I only have two complaints about this amp and both don't relate to it's sonic abilities. Firstly, that BRIGHT Blue LED just has to go ! Man it must be at least 4000 Mcd, bright and powerful enough to give you laser eye surgery from across a darkened room. Secondly, the volume pot as Fitz had previously mentioned doesn't give you enough variation of control over the volume. You go from no volume to full volume in less than one fifth of a turn of the volume knob, so I've ordered an Alps Blue Velvet 100k logarithmic pot off eBay already !

 Hope you get your amp soon Norman !

 I'm off to soak in some tunes for the evening because I have the day off from work tomorrow !


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## djork

OK.. i'm going for it! I'm buying it for my dad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 finally he'll have a tube amp. Can't wait to see the grin on his face, hahaha


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## LoweArt

I'm sure he'll be over joyed with the Darkvoice !


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## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LoweArt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Norman is spot in his comments regarding Jian Liu, my experience
 through out the transaction was the same - just excellent !

 My NOS RCA tubes arrived this afternoon and I've been warming them up
 this evening - ooh baby very nice sound indeed and that's considering they
 still need a few hours on them !

 I had to open the case to have a peek inside and noticed that the wiring has been tidied up since the first version of the 336 ( no "i" suffix ) but I have to say as neat it may be the use of decent wiring like what Fitz did is much more preferable from my point of view for servicability ! To everybody else, it isn't going to matter. 

 This unit is DEAD silent, no hum what so ever ! It's even quieter than my Mapletree Audio Design Ear + purist !!!!

 I only have two complaints about this amp and both don't relate to it's sonic abilities. Firstly, that BRIGHT Blue LED just has to go ! Man it must be at least 4000 Mcd, bright and powerful enough to give you laser eye surgery from across a darkened room. Secondly, the volume pot as Fitz had previously mentioned doesn't give you enough variation of control over the volume. You go from no volume to full volume in less than one fifth of a turn of the volume knob, so I've ordered an Alps Blue Velvet 100k logarithmic pot off eBay already !

 Hope you get your amp soon Norman !

 I'm off to soak in some tunes for the evening because I have the day off from work tomorrow !
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

So how do they compare, otherwise???


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## LoweArt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So how do they compare, otherwise???_

 

Firstly, let me say that the Darkvoice 336 is GREAT value and Bang for your buck considering it's price of $310US delivered to your door, fully built tubes and all. I believe you would be hard pressed to find another tube headphone amp of this build quality with such flexible tube rolling options for this price or less that offers such sonic performance and virtues. 

 That said, when put in comparison with the MAD Ear + purist it does fall a little short in the areas of detail, imaging ( headstage/holographic ) and it's ability to be as articulate with deep bass notes. Now, I'm not talking about a HUGE gapping difference that would make you consider selling the Darkvoice after a couple of weeks of ownership. Sure, the differences are noticable but these differences are ones that I wouldn't really notice if I hadn't previously owned or have the MAD Ear + purist as a side by side comparison.

 In practical terms, the Darkvoice does everything very well and is a great all-rounder and handles a vast array of musical genre's without necessarily sounding like it's favouring one type or style over the other. My only gripe is that of the linear volume pot and that can easily be fixed ( well I found it easy ). The MAD Ear+ purist is the headphone amp you would buy if either you had the $$s first up to spend on a GREAT amp or if you wanted to hear the next sonic step up from the Darkvoice.


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## esuko

Hello

 After reading this whole thread...phuuh
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Wanted to ask about the output capacitor mod. 
 After increasing the capasitance low impedance headphones would not have bass rolloff? 
 If there would be noise problems would adding some output resistance be a bad idea?
 I have not even bought 336i. I just wanted to get all information straight before buying.
 Most of my favorite headphones are now low impedance and efficient. 
 So i realy would be grateful geting some information from modders of this amp.
 Got also K340 but it seems that it's a no problem with this amplifier


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## shotmaker

Hi,

 I am thinking about getting a 336i, but when I tried to order it from Jasmine I have been told that the production of the 110V version stopped "a long time ago" so I was wondering if anyone bought one recently and from where??


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