# Almi's X-Fi Mod (Hotrodding Sound Blaster X-Fi models)



## ramachandra

Almi's X-Fi Mod

I have got big inspiration a while ago from Layman's Guide to modify my good old X-Fi. Since I have learnt few things and tricks to improve the X-Fi further more. What I would like to share here is nothing special, most of them well known, but You can save time to read them in one place.
Since X-Fi XtremeMusic, few other soundcards appeared on the market, usually with more extras and better quality. Some can say that: what is the point to upgrade this old outdated modell, it will be never-ever as good as my new shiny 200$ card. If we are loking the technical data they are correct. In reality, this mod can outperform a basic Auzentech X-Fi Forte or Titanium HD card in many ways (I have them both). Even some external DACs as well. It is amazing how much hidden potency remains in this card after many years.

This modification is working on the same way on XtremeMusic and Xtreme Gamer Fatality Pro.

*What you need for this upgrade:*

*Opamps:*
4pcs OPA1602AID (for all chanels, no adapters required)

*Soldering:*
soldering paste (basic is perfect)
soldering iron (narrow head important)
solder (cheap=trouble)
solder sucker
wire cutter
twezers

*Clock:*
ultra precision 1ppm TCXO 24.576MHz

*Capacitors:*
16pcs Elna Silmic II 22uf 16V
1pcs Elna Silmic I, II 1500uf 16V or 1000uF 16V 
1pcs Elna Silmic I, II, or Cerafine 47uf 16V
3pcs Elna Silmic I, II or Cerafine 10uf 50V
2pcs Elna Silmic I, II, or Cerafine 22uf 16V
1pcs Elna Tonerex 100uf 50V or Silmic II 100uF 25V
6pcs 0.1uf 63V Wima MKS or other brand MKT capacitors

*About components:*

*Opamps:*
LM4562: Few years passed, they are better then stock OpAmps but outdated. Very sensitive to noises, what is abundant inside your pc. I have found many of them faulty.
Opa228P: One of the best opamp highly performing in the lower range (bass and drums ect.)
 (Thank you Majkel!) The 228p is the mono, 2228p is the stereo version. There are arguments about which one is the better, I personally prefer monos because the less chance for crosstalks. In most cases mono OpAmps are better. The PA series sound brighter than P, and are also good choice.
Opa627AU: have better high but less depth. Very similar to 49710NA (Titanium HD), but Opa627AU is a bit more alive.
Opa637SM: like Opa627AU just in a metal can. One of the best in clarity, instruments really alive, offer less details compared to OPA1602AID.
Opa128SM: Maybe a bit better than Opa638AU
Bursons OpAmp: Some says they are the best, but others have their doubts. (I don't have it yet for testing.)
OPA1602AID: One of the latest OpAmp from the great TI Sound Plus family. Usually OpAmps have a common weakness. Good performance in one or two ranges, and poor or limited in the other(s). This one is without such of weakness. High-End no doubt. (A noticeable thing is a tiny harshness in the midrange. Ears can quickly adapt, not enough to be disappointed) Can be solder directly to the card, no need for adapters.
OPA1612AID: A bit older close enough alternative. Better only on paper than OPA1602AID, sound more neutral in comparison.
Others: There is an ocean of them. Many of them was a great choice for upgrade around 2007 but time is time... 

Great threads about OpAmps:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/397691/audio-gd-discrete-op-amps-reviewed-opa-earth-opa-moon-opa-sun-v-2
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/chip-amps/154106-best-sounding-audio-integrated-opamps.html


*Capacitors:*
Elnas are one of the best electrolytic capacitors in the audio industry. In this mod they are making the sound clear and warm, easy on the ears, and more realistic 3D! Elnas naturally increase bass, Nichicons are better in the midrange and this is not coming always handy. Other than that, they are great capacitors in the right place and equipment. The difference between the audio grade capacitors and standard is the used materials and technology. Static measurements almost not shows difference in numbers, still the influence undeniably present in the sound. I recommend the following capacitors to use for the modifications:
Elna Silmic II: Most people consider them as the best for audio, warm clean analog sound impressive soundstages and details. A perfect choice for decoupling purpouse.
Elna Silmic: The sound have better body, but less resolution compared to Silmic II. I prefer them over Silmic II if the task is not decoupling.
Elna Cerafine: The closest you can get to the beloved and sometimes overhyped Black gates. Neutral, precise, accurate sound, and not the best choice for decoupling. I love to use them around the DAC chip.
Nichicon KZ: Brilliant midrange and great capacitors for decoupling, but i carefully use them for other purposes because tend to sound flat to my hears. Maybe the size more than problematic.
If no better around still recommended:
Elna Tonerex: Tend to fit to places where the better Elnas do not, cheaper and sound more neutral.
Nichicon FG: Nice rounded sound good midrange and soundstages, lack of bass, smaller size and less clarity than KZ.
Nichicon ES: Excellent choice for decoupling if you love string instruments.

Of course the list can go further but i suggest to not bother with the entry level or what is hard to attain. This links are provide more detailed info about audiograde capacitors:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/528380/electrolytic-capacitors-used-in-audio-dc-blocking-comparison-tread
http://tech.juaneda.com/en/articles/electrolyticcapacitors.html

*Ultra precision clock generator (TCXO):*
I strongly advice to have on any soundcard. Does not matter how good soundcard you have if a cheap, lazy clock turnig the music to a foggy mess! After the change of crystal the sound becoming crystall clear, all the instruments in place, well separated. It makes the bass tighter. The 0.3ppm oscillators are better than 1ppm for a bit more money. 


*The mod*
(The folloving image is not updated)



*Change of capacitors*
For soldering caps 60/40 Tin/Lead solder is perfect. The easy way to temove caps is to put some paste & solder to the legs first. Heat up one leg then push the capacitor to one side, then heat the other leg and push to the opposite side, then just repeat. It can ruin the cap, but who cares? To remove old solder from holes is easy if you use the solder sucker on one side, the soldering iron on the other side of the PCB. Some times solder can be really tough to remove from holes, in that case just solder the caps to the surface of the hole. Better option than keep trying and owerheat the SMDs on the card. A wet cloth or tissue can keep the critical areas cold enough from overheating.
 A drill could be another option too. But remember to be very careful to select the proper head and not damage the wall of the hole. Even broken legs of the capacitors can be drilled out if necessary.
The negative polarity of electrolyte capacitors are marked on the capacitors and PCB. Using them the opposite way results problems. Film capacitors have no polarity.



Decoupling capacitors: I strongly suggest Silmic II because quality really matters. The 4 capacitors on top belong to the front speaker, the other 12 to the surround speakers. There is one rule for both group: change them all or leave them all!
Caps arround dac: This is a good place for experiments. You can not go wrong with Elna Silmic II alone here, but the same type caps can make the sound signature too strong.
Capacitor for opamps: Elna Tonerex is good for opamps. 50v capacitor is not necessary but higher voltage caps have lover ESR and longer lifetime.
Main capacitor near X-Fi chip: 1000-1500uf is enough, because Elna capacitors are naturally increase bass, and 2200uf way too much after this complete mod.
Extra capacitors: I have taken the idea from a DIY DAC. It gives extra dynamic for the sound, can reveal some hidden details.

The newly installed caps are require minimum 5 days of running to burn in. Before that, expect no miracle.

*Installing the clock*
 To remove the chrystal can look difficult at first. Thanks to the straight legs, the trick is to push out with the head of the soldering iron, then put a screwdriver under and lift carefully.
The card has a crystal what we want to change to an oscillator. The output need to be connected to the left hole on the PCB. And we need energy for the oscillator from an 4 pin extra power connector on the the top right corner. Pin1 +5v, Pin2-3 GND (see little triangle which marks the pin1.) Then connect the floppy power cable to the card for extra juice.

If for some reason the clock doesent work, the windows7 will just be hanging on the loading screen. If it plays the sound too fast or slow, the frequency of the clock is the problem.

*Update:*
Linux and PCI cards: With the TCXO the there is a good chance Linux operating systems will stuck on boot screen by unknown reason. Better to leave this part of the mod unless you know how to make it work. Use 1000uF capacitor for the main chip instead of 1500-2200F for the full mod, to avoid booming sound.




*How to Remove and install OpAmps*
Better to do this after the removal of the caps around the OpAmps because there is only small space for work, and this is already the most challenging part of the mod for many who try. Fine low melting point solder wire is great, the cheap low quality can be a headache, or even impossible to solder tiny things with. The first step is to remove the stock OpAmps from the board by cutting of the pins (only one in the time!) and clean the rest. Or add soldering paste, solder the pins together than heat and lift the sides. After finish use alcohol or stain remover + cotton buds to clean off the surface. Throw the old stock OpAmps to the bottom of the bin just to be sure they will be not climbing out !
Soldering paste is a great help to make the solder flow so use plenty on the PCB before soldering the new chips. Start with one pin in the corner than recheck the alignment. 
There is one rule about the surround OpAmps: change them all or leave them all. On the front, only one OpAmp is responsible for the left and right channel, on the surround the channels are mixed. I just mention here the sound might be heard quietly if the OpAmp(s) don`t work for some reason. If you are fortunate that is a simple soldering problem (the opposite is shortened, burnt component, damaged PCB, ect..).

*Adapters*
The advantage of using them is obvious if somebody like to have more experience, or simply looking for fun with the sound. The soldered connections is better than plain contacts for audio, so it make sense to stay away from them in the long term. To avoid confusion here is a picture about adapters, and a short descriptions to give an idea what they are. Basically stereo OpAmps can be used on this soundcard, or two mono with adapter(s). By the right adapter different size & package OpAmps working safely. Using a stereo OpAmp in a mono socket or any OpAmp in wrong alignment, is a predictable quick death for the component, so no shame to check the datasheet to be sure and take a second look before the power on. Since they are available on eBay for low cost i do not recommend to spend time on the homemade version.
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/1x-DIP8-SOP8-SOIC8-PCB-adapter-DIP8-SMD-Converter-DIY-/110849802208?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19cf29bfe0



*Making adapters*
You need solid core wires, for example Sata cable and 1pcs DIP8 socket for the front and 3 more for surround (gold plated is preferable) First, remove the wires from the Sata cable, and solder 1cm L shape wires to the PCB. Start with the 2. and 4. OpAmp and make the wires short as possible then solder the DIP8 sockets to the wires. After that, use longer wires for the 1. and the 3. If they are at the same level, maybe looking better, but no space for work. The dual to mono adapter is require more space for the front channels, so better if they sitting a bit higher. Extremely important to check all the connections after soldering, because later on it will be very difficult to make corrections, and also there is a high possibility for damage during installation of OpAmps. Epoxy can be used to stabilize the wires if you are 101% sure it is working as expected.

The following picture can be used for troubleshooting. (Sorry, i do not have a proper jack to test side channels).



The alignment of the new opamps is the same as the text on the old ones. Check the marking(s) on the PCB before installation of new socket(s).



Maybe help



Not directly related to the thread, just one of my favorite video how the experts are doing things.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NN7UGWYmBY 

*Extra Capacitors*
This is at least easy and working pretty good with any 0.1uf film capacitors. Simply solder them to the legs of the capacitors on the back of the card. One goes to the main cap C177 and the other 5 around the DAC chip C91,C119,C108,C56,C107. Ceramic or Tantalum is not great for audio. (I have used Soviet military K73-16 capacitor on the early versions, free from audible external noises. Technical they are superior, unfortunately in size the opposite true.)


*Full bypass of muting circuits*

*What extra you need for this mod:*
small size players
magnifying glass (min 40x)

This is a mod what you may or may not like. The removal and the bypass of the muting circuit result more clarity. The advantage brings some disadvantages as well, like hearing the not great quality in music, or the sound is more free flow, but bass is less “kicking” (a bigger cap instead of 1500uf more-less can bring back the balance).
The easy way to get rid of the components on the panel is to twist them left and right with the players. Sometimes they break into pieces, after then just clean the rest with the soldering iron.
35ohm resistors: The bypass will give a tiny improvement for the sound. Maybe some of the connected sound equipment can benefit from that if they are remaining untouched.
Front speakers: The safe way to make the connection is using a bridge-shaped wire.
Surround: Even more simple, you solder the 3 dots together (on the top side of the 6 pin transistors), and remove 46k ohm resistors.




*Other tricks*
- Removing all of the surround OpAmps can make an improvement if only the two front speakers required. This way the main OpAmp have a better supply of energy, and make an audible difference.
- I suggest to do the change of the caps around the DAC, and install the oscillator in the same time. Because the ultra precision clock will decrease the energy of "vibrant" sounds, the new caps around DAC will increase. They nicely compensate each other.
- Soldering chips to the PCB is risky without a temperature controlled and ESD safe soldering iron. (But not impossible)
- Shortening the decoupling capacitors not really an upgrade for the front speakers. Great for the high range & clarity but significant lose for the low range. After my disappointment on the front speakers i gave a chance for the surround, with good results. I have not experienced any negative side effects like on the front. I suggest to try it out without removing the decoupling caps. Just solder the legs together and listen...
- Soldering together the 1-7-8 pins of the OPA228p making the sound softer.

*Drivers*
Basically the Creative drivers are stable and reliable, still bugs are exist. The Unofficial Pax drivers are offer a solution, and much more, the installation is simple just like the original. Worth to mention the Pax sound more focused on the midrange and low is set back. If you prefer heavy bass this is not a driver for you no matter analog or digital connection you are using. You can find more details and the drivers here:
http://www.hardwareheaven.com/pax-drivers/

*Fix for damaged PCB*
Sometimes removing the components are not going well even for experienced modders so good to know what options we have when the damage is done. The surface of the card is covered by a thin layer of paint, what is coming off relatively easy by scratching the surface with a sharp blade or other tool, revealing the real size and way the copper on the surface. It will give the opportunity to have wider surface for soldering or bridge the missing pads. Against oxidation the surface can be covered again with nail-polish if necessary. On the following picture the connections around the OpAmp can be seen.



If the hole of the capacitor damaged a very thin wire can help. Solder one side to the remaining copper and lead to the other side of the hole then install the cap, then ready for soldering as normal. Or use the other side of the PCB and the leg of the component to bridge the missing bit. Maybe not fancy, but electrons don’t care, and easier as well.

Just a bad move and SMD componets have a tendency to breaking off from the panel and not always in one piece. If the necessary value are not available try the closest you can get, or use ordinary (much bigger) 1/4Watt metal film resistors and ceramic capacitors with short legs as possible.



*Source of components*
What is necessary for this mod can be found on eBay, Mouser, Farnell and approximately costs 40-50€.


I'm only an enthusiastic amateur in electronic, so sorry if i can not provide more scientific approach for this mod.


XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Pro (early version)



XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Pro (Same mod a bit differently) 




(If you are interested about a modified card like this maybe i can help. Contact: ramachandra@citromail.hu)




Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium / X-FI Titanium Fatal1ty Pro



My first impression is, this card realy enjoys the benefits provided by the PCI-Express slot. It is already working like an XtremeMusic after some modification. The G-Luxon capacitors on the card are probably better than the Jamicons, but still not Audio grade. So it’s time for an upgrade! The good news for the Fatal1ty Pro owners that, all the mods can be done under the shield.



Compared to the XtremeMusic/XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Pro the design have not changed dramaticly. Or at least not on the part where it needs a modification. Because of this, i don’t need to give the same description about the effect as above.

*Update:*
The number of capacitors and the way of the polarity on your card maybe not match to mine, look like the Creative made different series. I do not swear but my impression is the cards with more components is the winner.

*Update:*
Sanyo Os-Con: This ultra durable solid electrolyte capacitors are unbeatable for digital circuits, still using them on the analog section is not advised. The circulating information is somewhat confusing about them, as I figured out the older series with gold plated pins had better sound characteristic. I advise to not follow my example.



Decoupling capacitors: I suggest to use the purple (NOS) Silmic II capacitors. The newer series are maybe better, but the size is problematic, as you can see on the previous pictures. These caps are tested, opened and seems to be genuine Elnas. The legs are not magnetic.
Other caps on the front: They are connected to the DAC, and two of them under the decoupling capacitors to other circuits as well. Use any audio grade caps according to your taste or budget, but to get the best results, stick to the High-End Elnas, Nichicons.
Bypass caps: Added to the 3 capacitors around the DAC and one for the capacitor near the regulator. The suggested ratio is max 1% of the capacitance, but 0.1uF 63V or 100V can do fine. 



Oscillator (TCXO): The installation is more or less the same as on the other cards. The output of the osillator needs to be connected to the hole closer to the X-Fi chip. The source of the +5V is the output pin of the regulator near the optical connectors, the GND is the small copper square near the right leg of the crystal. Use a tape on the panel to avoid shorting circuit. The legs can be cut back or bend according to needs.



OpAmps: They can be removed by cutting or desoldering, just like on the photo. I have used 4pcs OPA1602AID without sockets this time. Solder sucker works better for me than desoldering braid to remove excess solder from the pins. 



Bypass ower decoupling capacitors: Just an experiment, the results are strongly depend on the quality and value of the used components. If you are interested in playing with it, try MKP, MKS, or lower quality MKT arround 63V-100V. Unfortunaltely the space gives a limit to use something better.


Few useful links to items on eBay: (I hope they will last for a while)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FINE-LOW-MELT-POINT-FLUXED-SOLDER-WIRE-0-4mm-DIAMETER-6-MTRS-/360452481715?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item53eca462b3

http://www.ebay.com/itm/20pcs-ELNA-SILMIC-Electrolytic-Capacitors-22uF-16V-/320687596301?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aaa78630d

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valab-1PPM-24-5760-MHz-Low-Jitter-Precision-TCXO-/300641150147?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45ff9be4c3




Titanium HD



I haven’t found any lead how or what to change on the card so i had to try and figure out myself. Im sure there are others who can do these things better and progress further. This is not exactly a guide, best to say that something i have tried. I have only examined the effect on the front speakers, trough the analog and optical connection.




*How to change the crystal*
Basically the same as on the XtremeMusic with few differences in the connections. The right hole near the X-Fi chip is the place of the output of the oscillator on this card. A good spot for the ground just beside the crystal, the small copper square on the right. In this mod i have decided to get the +5V power from the output of the LM1117 regulator just to do things simple. This way all of the wires and the TCXO remain under the shield. Of course if you do not like the idea to interfere with the job of the regulator, the external powering also can work from a Molex. (red wire +5v, black GND)




*The replacement of the capacitors:*
So far, the safe way to get rid of the SMT capacitors is to twist them with pliers. I had some other attempts, and ended up with nice damages on the PCB. Desoldering is risky because it requires high temperature and taking too long. If you decide to change capacitors on the card there is a possibility that the shield will not fit on the card any more. 



Coupling capacitors: I have used Silver Mica capacitors instead of the other good brand film caps. Micas are cold and agressive, still the best to improve clarity. I have noticed only a tiny improvement after the replacement. Having different values of the capacitors had no further effect on the sound. 
Decoupling Capacitors: Elna Silmic II is my best bet as usual, one of the most noticable is the better bass and more comfort for the ears. The 0,1uf 63v polystyrene bypass capacitors can add some small detail to the sound. I had to use both sides of the card to be able to install all the capacitors and two metal film resistors. The original value is 560 Ohm on the card. (i have only 470 Ohm in the photo)
Shortening capacitors also an option, however hardly can be called as an upgrade. The sound was becoming clean but unfortunately flat (poor mid and poorer low range).




Caps around DAC: just a small improvement for the 3D space.



Capacitros for the OpAmps: Not worth to change them alone.
Main capacitor for the X-Fi chip: Hoops! I can not find any. The 47uf capacitor in the bottom right corner is connected to the RAM.
Capacitors near the digital output: After the recap of the whole corner i have noticed significant improvements in the low range sounds on the analog and digital output both. I have tried to play with capacitances, later i have removed all the capacitors, and i heard nothing to support my previous experience. My best guess was that i had a faulty capacitor on my second-hand card. Solid-polymer capacitors have a tendency to fail shortend. (Many time wasted on to upgrade my external DACs so it was not something that i overlooked)

I have to say that the Creative made a big step to use better capacitors on the Titanium HD. The change of the capacitors can bring too small improvements for the sound comparing to the older X-Fi models. Too much pain for a little gain. To verify my experience i bougt another Titanium HD meanwhile to be sure. Probably you figured i did not fall in love with RMAA, just only the sound i can hear, so i gladly sacrificed the shield of the card and used a bit longer wires for better components.


If you are not looking for adventures best bang for the money is to change the OpAmps and the crystal to an ultraprecision clock and be happy.


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## Groundloop

Last pictures are plain exmaples how NOT to do it. Sorry, but having so much stuff connected with wires in a PC case is *rediculous*. If you have ran a RMAA before and after the mod, you will know why. Also there is a reason some people suggest bypassing ratio to be around 1 to 100 at most


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## XacTactX

Wow, that's an impressive amount of modding on one sound card. I just got the XtremeMusic myself and I'd like to mod it. I have the Nichicon KG 2200 uF and the LM4562 coming in the mail in a week or so. I'm curious, out of all of these individual modifications you performed, which ones have the highest sound quality bang/buck? I mean this compared to the cost and required soldering skill. I'm not discerning enough to do all of these mods, so I'd just like to do a few of them. I figure if I can get 90% of the benefit with half of the money/time/effort then I'm in good shape. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  BTW I'm new as you can tell and it's nice to meet you all.


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## Groundloop

OpAmp, output caps and C177 will do the most. Best output caps you can use - Elna Silmic II 22 uF/ 25V. Don't put any Low-ESR cap on C177, audiograde ones work best. Don't mess with the caps around the DAC (light blue ones on the first picture).
   
  Be advised that the card uses big ground planes so desoldering caps is quite a pita. You will need low-temperature PbSn solder and desoldering pump.


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## ramachandra

The Nichicon KG 2200uF and the LM4562 enough to to get the first taste, than You will be hungry for more. 


Best to start with the opamp(s) and leave the oscillator to the last, because about the half of the costs. I have to say that the complete mod well worth it. Also a fun to do bit by bit, the soundcard can be grateful for even little changes.

Tip:
Texas Instruments have free samples of Opa228P&PA. In this mod they are deadly!


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## XacTactX

I know what you mean by OpAmp, and I found a high quality picture of the PCB so that I could learn that C177 is the main power filtering cap, but what do you mean by "output cap"? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Thank you for the help, I don't know much about electronics and I appreciate it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  EDIT: OK, I figured it out, you mean the long row of 16 decoupling caps. I'll wait and see how my father makes out with soldering on one Nichicon KG cap first, and if he's up to the task of soldering another 16 caps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. But thanks anyway, and I'll keep all of this in mind.


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## ramachandra

Do not worry.  The first 4 capacitors on top belongs to the to the front speakers, the other 12 to the surrounds. I will update the picture & description.


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## XacTactX

I have one other question, though I think I already know the answer. If someone replaced the four decoupling caps that supply the front OpAmp, and they used the same Silmic II that you recommended, would they be able to put all four of the caps on the "top" side of the PCB? In other words I do not want any caps to be mounted on the backside on the PCB. I like the principle that the sound card fits inside of one standard expansion slot (plus my graphic card wouldn't allow it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). But based on how you put together your XtremeMusic, I have a feeling it is not possible because the caps are too wide to all be right next to one another.
   
  These X-Fi cards supposedly sound similar to the Xonar STX after doing these mods.


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## XacTactX

Well, now I understand why you recommended the Silmic II. It blows everything else away, and beats the BlackGate caps on price/performance and pure performance. I'll probably get the Silmic II, since it will only cost ~$7 on eBay. Damn you, making me spend money!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just kidding, this thread is priceless.
   
  http://tech.juaneda.com/en/articles/electrolyticcapacitors.html
   
  EDIT: Whoops, my math was off. It would cost $13 to get the Silmic II for the main power filter and the OpAmp filter caps from one seller. Still an incredible deal for what you are getting. Here are the two listings I found in case anyone else is interested.
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/120566662758?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/110763957571?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649


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## ramachandra

I have a picture about an early modification. Four caps are fit tightly not nicely. 
.

Some older Silmic II 16v 22uf still can be found on ebay, and they are not as fat as the new Silmics. I'm just waiting to get them

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/20pcs-ELNA-SILMIC-Electrolytic-Capacitors-22uF-16V-/320687596301?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aaa78630d

Unfortunately i do not have experience about Asus cards. The STX & Titanium HD have no ultraprecision clock. But this mod have, and without that the sound is blurry. The Sonar STX have Nichicon caps. I like them, but i like the Elna caps much more. Sonar STX a close competition to Titanium HD on the market.

If i have to chose between a Titanium HD or a modified XtrmeMusic after a listening test i go for the XtremeMusic. This is my opinion and i can be wrong. A DT-990 Pro headphone what i use for testing.


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## ramachandra

I suggest to use 16V capacitor instead 50V. They are better (because the low ESR) but much-much bigger.


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## XacTactX

I think this is a dumb question but I just want to make sure. Instead of using these two different capacitors:
   
  1pcs Elna Silmic 45uf 16v
  2pcs Elna Silmic 22uf 16v
   
  Can I just use Elna Silmic 47/16 instead? Capacitance is how much charge it can hold so I think the answer is yes, but I just want to be sure. People on eBay only sell cheap capacitors in packs of ten, so it would be better for me to use one type only.
   
  EDIT: Never mind, I figured out the answer, yes it is OK to use higher capacitance. But thanks anyway.
   
  EDIT: Also, are the film caps essential? Exactly why do you recommend them? I'm going to do the whole mod as you explained in this thread.


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## XacTactX

I don't like how those capacitors are contacting each other, it seems like it wouldn't be good for them. I got the pink Silmic 22 uF that you linked to avoid that problem. The seller was even nice enough to let me buy a single piece of Tonerex 100/50 even though he only sells packs of 10. Just one problem... I have a pink sound card 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







.
   
  I would really like to have the crystal/oscillator on the circuit board itself, and I see the TCXO 1 ppm unit you put on yours is too big. Is there any good oscillator that fits in the same socket so I can have it on the circuit board?


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## ramachandra

If you try to save money on the mod i suggest to NOT save on the Opamp(s) and decoupling capacitors!
Caps around DAC can be lower quality (still audiograde) and the main (C177) cap can be Panaconic FC.
The film caps have a similar effect on the sound like the change of the capacitor near X-Fi chip (C177) to a bigger. They are not essential, just a little extra for small money. Cheapest caps from local store can do fine.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-x-0-1uF-100V-5-Polyester-Film-Box-Type-Capacitor-/260841764609?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cbb617701

The crystal just a resonator, part of an oscillator circuit, the TCXO are already an oscillator, so i do not think there is a simple replacement. Maybe a smaller size exist. Installation to the other side also possible. Put a tape over the oscillator's metal case, to avoid a short circuit :wink_face:



I bought caps from that seller many times. So far so good.


----------



## XacTactX

I just added LME49860 OpAmp,1500 uF Silmic II, 47 uF Silmic and 10 uF Cerafine and this is insane. The sound is sooooo much more detailed and lively that I don't know how to explain it but in one word: love. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's like listening to my music collection for the first time all over again.
   
  As soon as the output caps and Tonerex arrive my father will help me swap those out too. I'll post pics of how it turned out, it really is a work of art. My father is a master of engineering, he put the 1500 uF Silmic on its side on the top of the PCB. He bent the legs in an artistic way and used rubber and super glue to affix it.
   
  Good times await.
   
  EDIT I almost forgot many many thanks for writing this guide ramachandra.


----------



## ramachandra

I'm happy to hear about your first experience. Your father must be very good at soldering and doing this sort of things. The first try was not entirely a success for me, still i was eager enough to go nuts on it and keep modding. Risky & fun.


----------



## XacTactX

I found a company that gives out free of oscillators to businesses. They have the right oscillators for a mod like this. Here's what I got in case anyone else would like it too:
   
  http://www.ecliptek.com/stocksearch/Stock.aspx?Partnumber=ES51C1E10N-24.576M&qt=&org=pm&st=SearchOS
   
  For desoldering the OpAmp my father took a sharp, flat soldering tip and cut it so that it is the exact same size as the four legs on the OpAmp. So he desoldered all of the legs in two shots. Then he used a regular small tip and put the solder onto the pads, and then put the OpAmp on and connected it to the pads by simply putting the tip onto the legs/pads.
   
  For removing the capacitors using a small 30w iron just does not work. With an 85w one the solder will melt in 3-4 seconds for desoldering and 6-8 seconds for the legs. It's short, sharp and sweet with 85w, with 30w it takes ages and I wouldn't suggest using it.
   
  I've been repeating my music collection on low volume to burn in the capacitors. The highs sounded harsh and sharp right after doing the mod but now it has gotten better.


----------



## Mpegger

I'm wondering if I might get some guidance as to what I can do to my X-Fi XtremeMusic to improve its analog outputs. I've been wanting to do the opamp mod for a long time, just haven't gotten around to it, when I happened upon this thread. Seems kinda straight forward (though I may need to read it a few more times), but my only concern is that the changes mainly focus on the front L & R channel, with the rest not getting the same love and attention. I understand this is Head-Fi.org, and that this forums main focus would be on simply 2 channels and earphones (obviously  ). My focus however, is on multi-channel, as I'm always using my PC to watch TV, a movie, or playing games. Even when listening to music, I still prefer the X-Fi to be in Stereo Surround mode (2 channel stereo audio played through all 6 side speakers). I don't even use headphones at home, only when I'm out and have to ride the bus or train, and its mainly IEMs to help block out noise.
   
  I'm basically looking to get the same quality of sound from all the channels, not just the front L & R. Stock, its very apparent the X-Fi XtremeMusic front L & R have a different sound quality then the rest of the channels. I'm aiming for a seamless transition of sound from one speaker to the next (all 7 main speakers are the same for that exact reason). I understand that technically this may not be possible (it does appear to me that the front L & R circuit is different from the rest), but the changes I see in the original post seem to alter the front channel more-so then the rest. Should I stick with just the opamp swap, or go all the way with the caps as well? And can the rest of the channels achieve the same sound quality as the front L & R, maybe with some alterations to what was done in the original post?


----------



## ramachandra

This modification of the XtrmeMusic is not only for the front speakers. The only small difference is the two mono OpAmps for the front channel instead of a stereo, but it is not making a big difference. The change of the clock, caps around  the DAC, ect. have the same effect on all the channels.
   
  Meanwhile i tried other OpAmps from TI, and i found the OPA1602AID. It is sound like my favorite OPA228p, but the mid and high range is improved. I have plan for a small update later....


----------



## Mpegger

Ahh, I mis-understood the post then. It seemed to me that most of the modification affected the fronts. So swapping all the OpAmps for identical ones _should_ yield nearly the same sound quality from all the channels, correct?


----------



## ramachandra

Correct. Some difference always remain because the 3D sound, not the components.


----------



## Mpegger

I purchased a X-Fi Platinum PCIe (to replace my ageing PCI model and just incase I screw up doing the mod) to do the Op-Amp and Oscillator mod on (refurb price was around $45 + the mods). I was worried that I had royally screwed over the card because I was using a old Rat-Shack 30W iron with the standard (too large for SMD components) tip.
   
  While removing one of the old Op-Amps, I applied too much pressure under one of the legs and pulled the circuit pad right off before the solder had liquified. Strike one.
   
  When cleaning the pads off I was using a solder sucker, which this particular model has alot of kick, which manged to knocked off one of the SMD capacitor which sits next to the Op-Amp area because of said kick. Strike two.
   
  Luckily, no out.
   
  I scraped off the enamel from atop the trace that led to the missing pad, used the smallest, finest copper wire I had around and soldered it to the trace and layed it out in the same area the pad was. I manage to solder the new Op-Amp (the OPA1602AID) to it and all was good as tested with my multi-meter.
   
  The SMD cap was a little tricky, as working with that oversized tip and trying to keep the cap in place was a PITA. But somehow I managed, and it too was in place.
   
  I went with a 0.3 ppm Oscillator as I really couldn't find any 1 ppm, and the price wasn't bad either way.
   
  All was soldered up and placed into the computer. I turned it on and kept my fingers crossed that I wouldn't see any magic blue smoke and that oh so familiar smell of burnt electronics wafting to my eyes and nose annnnddddddddd....
   
  Success!!
   
  Man, what a difference!!! Its only the Op-Amps and Oscillator, but wow! Even my poorly encoded mp3s have a analog sound to it. The sound is just so clean and smooth! Thank you so much for the guide!! Now I'll be spending the weekend burning in this card with music and movies, and tweaking the levels and distances for my 7.1 setup.


----------



## ramachandra

I'm glad you managed to fix the damage and upgade your card.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I think you are very lucky, because this tiny SMDs have a tendency to break into pieces and than no chance to determine the value. Usually not a problem to measure resistance in the nearably output stages because all the same. Unfortunately caps have to come off to be sure, and not to many people have instruments to deal with capacitance. Not to mention about the risk of the of the necessary heat for desoldering or using players to break off another component(s) causing further damage. One of my XtremeMusic died on a faulty ribbon a while ago, and time to time coming handy for experiments. So i was thinking in the last few day to make an update about the values of the SMD components around the OpAmps, just in case something goes wrong for somebody. I will definitely do it as soon as i have the time.


----------



## fab_flix

What other mods besides changing the main cap are available for improving the digital output? I don't use the analog outputs at all and I'm interested to get the most out of the card on its digital output. Does the oscilator improve SPDIF out?
  So far i changed the main cap with a Nichicon KW 1000uf and bypassed it with a 0.1uf MKP.


----------



## ramachandra

I have tried to improve the digital output of the Titanium HD only without success, and i do not think the oscillator have any effect on the digital output, or at least i have not experienced. The Pax Drivers does some changes of the sound trough S/PDIF, and depend on taste to like it or not. Some of the SB cards like Titanium / Titanium Fatal1ty Pro have optical output and the advantage is the lower chance for getting noises from a PC compared to coax.
  To improve the sound quality maybe better to start with your DAC, because many modifications possible just like on a soundcard, and worth it.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





groundloop said:


> Also there is a reason some people suggest bypassing ratio to be around 1 to 100 at most


 
  I have gotten my greatest results by ignoring this advice. Some of my bypasses are  larger than the caps they are bypassing on my X-Fi Titanium HD. I have 48uf metalized films bypassing 40uf worth of electrolytics on the opamp side & 24uf worth of metalized films bypassing the 5 volt supply for the DAC which are bypassing 2-100uf caps. This last really smooths the high frequencies of the Titanium HD while improving detail & resolution at the same time. 
   
  I also get firmer bass & incredable attack on transients such as hard drum hits. I also get more of a sense of space around such instruments.


----------



## Jacks

Hi guys!
  Does anybody know which caps belong to the ADC on the X-Fi Titanium (PCI-e)???

  
  BTW I did the full mod for the Titanium step by step and imho the biggest difference and improvement delivered the change of the clock. Before that the card improved a lot, but it performed a bit “cold” and was terrible exhausting. After the change of the clock the sweetness found its way back in to my loudspeakers lol. And after few days of burning-in the card performed even sweeter and warmer. I'm very happy with it now. And I want to thank Ramachandra for his support and for his patience with me. I have bombarded him with questions - and still do  - via emails. Thx for that.

  
  Now I want to try out different OpAmps. I will post my impressions here, but it might take a while, because I'm still waiting for some OpAmps from China and USA. I will do the comparison not before I have them all. Besides I need SOIC8 adapters to be able to do the test, which I don't own at the moment.

  
  So long,
  Greetings from Berlin,
   
  Robert.


----------



## DjRabbit

Hey great tutorial rama, describes alot of of good things. So recently I did the op amp mod and got a OPA1602AID  to solder in. I only have one major problem after 4 hours of listening  the right channel went bad and made loud crackling noises. I used 60/40 electronic standard solder and a hakko iron. The solder joints looked great so I don't think it's that. Though I have tried resoldering it and no luck. I am using 30ohm headphone and the card is a X-fi music extreme. I think it might be a bad opamp or I damaged it with the soldering iron.
   
   
  EDIT: I have got it to work with no problems. I removed the coating off the pcb near the opamp and that helped the solder flow. Sounds awesome, I would totally reconmend the OPA1602AID to any one looking to mod their X-fi with/without sockets.


----------



## ramachandra

I have started with standard solder in the beginning too, and it makes the job more challenging. Even without that the solder play tricks some times, and the diode tester on the multimeter is my ultimate way to be sure the connection is ok. I put one probe to the pin close to the chip's body, and with the other i try to find the next connected component. This trick saved me few times from headache. More reliable than magnifying glass.
   
  I love the OPA1602AID. First when i received samples from TI i have not pay much attention for them, i just noticed they have a bright sound after a quick tryout. Some time later they are landed in a much better external DAC when i played Skyrim, and instantly became my new favorite. Around new year i used a bunch to modifying two Logitech Z-5500 with great results.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (The new thread on the way.)


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## toleen

Hello, I have a X-FI Titanium Fatal1ty Pro and I was wondering where the power cap is on that board, the image you had posted explained everything else very nicely. http://cdn.head-fi.org/2/2e/350x267px-LL-2ef11f84_Titaniumupgrade.jpeg


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## ramachandra

The X-FI Titanium Fatal1ty Pro card do not have the capacitor you looking for. It is a difference between the PCI and PCI Express X-Fi cards.


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## toleen

Ahh, ok.  Thank you for the prompt reply!  Another question, if I increase the value of the decoupling capacitors from 22uf to 47uf, will it be a good change? or might it change for the worse?


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## ramachandra

The benefit is arguable. Moving towards higher capacitance in that position result a little bit deeper sound to a point, and taking its toll on the high-range first.
   
  Building up the same capacitance from multiple High-end capacitors is a much better option from sound point of view. To do that nice and easy usually a complicated, because not much space available.


----------



## Daemonium

For those of you that are told that the X-Fi Xtreme Audio is not worth the mod; um no. The processor may not be the greatest, but it's all on the digital side, not the magically (and it truly seems that way) diverse analog section. If you are a purist, it really becomes a matter of nuthead-scratching to determine which is better, because all ADA (Analog-Digital-Analog) is really is about, is chopping up the sound in to itty bitty pieces, messing with 'em for a while, and then reassembling them (kinda' like when you broke your moms favorite vase and glued it back together, hoping she wouldn't notice the difference). Some DA (Digital to Analog) chips are better at reassembling the pieces, but a purist will glare at you and send you to your room without dinner!
   
  The most important part is the output OP (Operational Amplifier) amp, a good one is prohibitively expensive for competitive mass production. Some "nice" companies now put a $0.008 socket on their cards so you can use a different OP amp (sooo generous of them).
   
  The stock OP amp is usually a 455x series OP amp. It was an amazing OP amp back in the late 70's, much better than the ancient 741! They are only made still because they are dirt cheap.
   
  An inexpensive alternative is the TLE2072 (dual), it's much better than a TL072 (which is superior to the 4558) and it costs around $2.50. If you have a really good ear (I was a musician when I was a young man, so I do), an OPA228 (around $10) is very nice indeed!
   
  Another good idea is the RF shield. Especially if the card is within 4"/10cm of another noisy card. It doesn't need to be fancy, just a well cut out piece of aluminum attached to the bottom of the card separated with aluminum spacers and mounted with screws. All the holes are grounded and feed-though so it is (almost) fool proof.
   
  Capacitors: Well, a touchy subject. Yes they make a difference. In the case of this card though, make sure your computer has a high quality power supply (like an Antec: 'an dona' be tight with the coins). Try to route the wires away from any other devices and you should be fine. If you want to replace capacitors, all you can do is replace power filtering capacitors (like I said, a good PC power supply will take care of most woes), I suggest "Elna Silmic II" series capacitors, they are reasonably priced, reliable, and have good sound characteristics.
   
  Filtering capacitors are not a big deal. Series capacitors are! the DC blocking capacitors (on all SB models of cards) are surface mount devices, and they are tiny little fuc... er frogs, they have a case size of 805 to 603 usually. Unless you are a master at soldering, forget about trying, and finding good replacements is a bitch. If you have the skill, "Wima" makes some very decent SMD capacitors!
   
  I am a new member, so I assume that's why I can't post pictures of my wonderful mods?


----------



## cmos.gr

Come on people mod this little old beast 
 I'm gonna show you the mods I've made on my 8 years old X-Fi.
  
  
 Somewhere in 2008 I had changed op-amp, DAC caps and Filter cap.
  
 -op-amp was the classic LM4562: Crystal sound but a little bit grey-cold without soul.(you know what I mean)
 -DAC caps ELNA 16v 100uF: I think this mod caused some stability issues. Totaly wrong choice for DAC cap.
 -Filter cap a big BlackGate 16v 2200uf: Damn this was a huge upgrade... Sound transformed completely. Became deep and flexible while keeping the high fidelity of LM4562.
  
 Year 2013, time for a soundlifting. TCXO (0.3p nutsAudio) upgrade...
  

  
  
 I removed these two useless pins to fit the TCXO as close to PCB.
  

  
  

  
  
 ELNA Silcic II upgrade.

 A note here: Decoupling capacitors had a blurry effect so I removed them immediately and shorted them again giving back the crystal sound I used to have.

  
  
 MKS4 0.1uf 100v

  
  
 Sockets, TONEREX II 100uf 50v, and of course...opa627AU.(singles)

  
  
 Everything soldered and ready to rock.

  
  
 Socket installed, Tonerex installed what are we waiting ?

  
  
  

  
  
  
 I'm gonna say 3 words : Just Do It !
 Opa 627AU+TCXO is absolutely an amazing upgrade from LM4562+Stock Crystal. Everything is alive,colorful and warm with this op-amp without losing LM's clarity. Bass is set when needed thanks to TXCO's extreme accuracy and all instruments are well separated, giving you this feeling of liveliness, a sound with soul.
  
  
 Happy holidays everyone. (and happy solderings  )


----------



## Acclaim

Kudos for this post ramachandra!
  
 How does this look as a TCXO replacement?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vanguard-TCXO-0-1ppm-24-576MHz-Ultra-precision-Golden-Oscillator-/131020893410?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e81742ce2
  
 Also, I'll hit this thread with a second question while I'm at it... If I'm using my XtremeMusic solely as a DSP w/ digital SPDIF coaxial out, is the TCXO the only worthwhile upgrade?


----------



## ramachandra

The TCXO you found is correct. I have not experienced benefit to using them with external DACs. The S/pdif sending the audio and clock data together and depend on the device you connected how it handle.


----------



## HiFidelity9

Hi, thought I'd take a moment and thank the OP for this thread, though there are many on this topic I found this one to be most informative.
  
 My X-Fi so far has a new opamp (LM 4562) & Silmic II 1500uf 16v Main Cap and more upgrades coming...
  
 I would call myself an amateur audiophile when it comes headphones, most of my experience is with cars so this is all practically new to me although I've had a keen ear for sound I have not devoted any real budget towards audiophile equipment in this category.
  
 I suppose I've chosen to savor the moment with every upgrade on this card, I'd read many times over how much of a drastic improvement this card sees after being treated to all the upgrades but as I have always done with my other audio ventures I always strictly judge from personal experience only. I seem to often go against the grain when it comes to the general opinion on sound, for example everyone says the Highs are harsh on HD681's but I find them to sound perfect for my preference, also everyone feels that MB Quart cans lack too much in lows but I find my 55X very "bass heavy" anyway before I ramble on any longer what I'm saying is I am trying each upgrade independently; opamp - 2 weeks burn-in/listening then Main cap burn-in/listening, 2 more weeks then I'm getting dac caps or opamp cap and so on. Later down the line I may choose to change some of these parts based on how it sounds to me. I'm loving this approach because I perform the upgrade then have a listen right away, I then put my headphones down leave the music playing & walk away, come back later play a track or two & walk away leaving the music on. This makes for an interesting daily experience, I suppose I enjoy the progression of the sound during the burn-in stage, in this respect the cap is what shows the most "progress" where as the opamp was more of an instantaneous improvement.
  
 I encourage any X-Fi owner to do this, it only gets better when following this guide.
  
 So from a noob, thank you so very much for such an awesome thread.


----------



## cristianuk

Does anyone know how to install Audio GD JZ-1 on Titanium HD, before i had it installed  on Asus Essence St but i couldnt find anyone doing it on any creative sound cards.
  
 http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/diy/JZ1/JZEN.htm


----------



## voemeh

I was trying to make simmilar mod to my XFI XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Pro. I bought some elnas and nichicons. After recaping main power cap for xifi chip (c177) I've noticed there's some short circuit on it. I removed cap, cleaned pcb but I still got "beep" sound on my measurer even on pcb's empty holes. But it shows some value on it. So i cut of power section from diode. No more beeping on c177. There was beep on diode. I removed diode, but there's short circuit on PCB and it shows some little value. I have checked all other caps on card and there are absolutely fine, no beeping.
 Question is can it be some sort of short circuit by default in this section? I haven't plugged card into PC since then.
  
 Can someone check is there *short circuit on their XFI on c177* please?
 I add example picture. I'm not expert electician :c
http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad131/voemeh/craaaa.jpg


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## ramachandra

Unfortunately i do not have this card here to check. What do you read on the instrument with the diode tester? If the numbers are not too low the card is fine, because the main X-Fi chip drawing energy. One short beep is fine because the capacitor(s) need some time to be fully charged, more capacitance mean you get longer beep.


----------



## voemeh

Diode itself showed around 400 or 600 i don't remember exactly, i mesured it while it was no longer on pcb. The multimeter beeps and shows 010 in place where diode was, it showed same value on main power cap, but now cap is out off board and power section is cut off from x-fi chip. It looks like short is comming from the chip, i'm confused now. Maybe it suppose to be like that?
 Btw it beeps all the time i discharged caps by shorting their legs for a sec.


----------



## ramachandra

I have an XtremeMusic here, the two card more less the same, and I have two different multimeter. Using the probes on the pins of the 1500uF cap it displays around 400-550 the other 600-1200 depend on the polarity so 10 with a constant beep is not looking good. The only thing you can do if the card worked for you before is to precisely examine all the spots you have touched because solder can make really small bridges thick as a hair, or looking for drops of solder on the PCB shortening pins of the chips, or can be a fragments of solder also. I often see that when i push trough the legs of the capacitor on the holes the sharp edge cutting off long fragment and remain under the capacitor or end up making a bridge somewhere else.
 The worst situation is if the multilayer PCB suffered damage somehow and the short circuit is between two layers or the too much heat ruined a ceramic capacitor and died in short circuit. Near the holes of the main cap there is a small 0.1uF SMD. Maybe worth to check it out.
 If you want you can wash the whole card to get rid of possible fragment (with white spirit, alcohol or stain remover to get rid of the paste or resin first) using a soft paintbrush and warm water + washing up liquid and gentle constant brushing. You need to be very sure no water left on the board especially under the the main chip, so use a hair dryer on medium temperature and give enough time.
  
 I just giving this ideas because this is all i can do, i will not encourage you to try out the card in your PC and hope no smoke.


----------



## voemeh

Thank you for respond and hints, I'm going to look at that card one more time in free time. Now I'm waiting for arrival new (used) x-fi xtreme gamer sb0730. Got it for 15 USD which I think was a great bargain. Still very simmilar to sb0460 only slimmer, less memory and less outputs. I will probably replace caps with elnas and nichicons, maybe this time I will succeed


----------



## EdibleStereos

I modded my x-fi extreme music with panasonic capictors, polymers for the bypass, 2uf ceramics on the power caps, and an AD8620 opamp. I find the 8620 makes it very detailed. They can be modded into very decent cards.


----------



## voemeh

My sb0730 arrived and i've checked C177 and diode near x-fi chip. Same thing as sb0460... multimeter beeps and shows small value around 10. But the card works perfectly. So i guess it suppose to be like that oO or is it some sort of common malfuction?
 I put sb0460 back together with nichicon 2200uf as main power cap, it keeps beeping, but it works in my PC.
 Only thing i'm worried about is crackling noise on right channel with more than 50% volume level in system settings (little speaker in corner). Right channel also seems to be a bit quieter. It happened before i started to mod.
 Can it be electrolites fault or could it be something more serious? I'm wondering now is it worth to keep on modding this card.


----------



## ramachandra

I do not know the answer for the first question I'm afraid. 10 ohm just seems too low.
  
 My first thoughts is the jack connector, broken wire, failing OpAmp. There are too many other components on a card to fail, if you lucky the mod sort it out. If not you can use what you have on the other card, + you gained experience. Safe desoldering and solder on the pins is the only difficulty. With a good soldering iron and solder you will handle it.


----------



## here7423

Hello Rama,I wanna know,for CS4382, 3x10uf caps, Cerafine was better than Tantalum? how many different between them,you must have many test.


----------



## ramachandra

Tantalum and ceramic capacitors have very low ESR and good only for the digital part because that is really matter on that section, and inferior for analog circuits because the often mentioned microphonic noise and internal resonance. Just from the listening point the narrow sound stages, aggressive, cold, dirty sound, lack of dynamic is making them a disappointing, compared to the audiograde electrolytic capacitors in general.


----------



## here7423

Same question with WM8775's caps,sounds from there when player setting asio output.
 still in doubt after watch the DAC\ADC pin's definition
 VD,VQ?----tantalum or polymer
 VA,ADCREFP,VMIDADC----elna cerafine or ?


----------



## ramachandra

Use the datasheet to for help. Look at the image under "RECOMMENDED EXTERNAL COMPONENTS" than you can see what is connected to the AGND (analog ground) DGND (digital ground) an the rest is easy to understand.
 http://dl.ivtvdriver.org/datasheets/audio/WM8775.pdf
  
 For the digital section: Solid polymer tantalum provide lower ESR and frequently better reliability than standard tantalum. The Sanyo OS-CON unbeatable for the job.
  
 For the analog section: Use Elna Silmic II or Cerafine. If you want to record string instruments Nichicon KZ, FG or the bipolar ES is good. You can find more info on the thread under "*Capacitors:"*


----------



## voemeh

I finaly managed to recap SB0730 with mostly Elna Silmic II RFS, 3x Nichicon Fine Gold around DAC section and some Silmic II in power section. Sound improved a lot! Everything is velvet clear now, detailed and more dynamic. Midrange it is more juicy and warmer, bass became more impulsive, tight, heavier and punchy.
 Here's how it looks like after recap (sry for bad quality):
http://i.imgur.com/ERaLepq.jpg
  
 But after installing Nichicon KW 2200uf 16v as main power filter cap everything's got broken ;/ Sounded flat, harsh, and way too bright for my ears. Bass wasn't so punchy and dynamic anymore, it was light, soft and fluffy. I left card running for about 24h, so the cap could warm up and form a little. Things got a bit better, but still i didn't like it. So i went back to default G-Luxon 220uf 25V. Everything got back to where I liked it.
 Is 2200uf too much? Or just Nichicon KW is worse quality cap? I've seen 3300 Black gates caps there as main power filter oO Isn't that overkill?
 I'm thinking about Panasonic FC, Nichicon FG, KA or Os-con perhaps in range of 220uf-1000uf.
 Any recommendations?


----------



## here7423

Digital parts, the main capacitor, I like choose the motherboard capacitor with impedance minimum,can only be Nichicon HZ series's 16v 1800uf, 6.5mOhm,there is no other choice.

 Jamicon(kaimei),here have to say,quality is also very nice,board of the 16v 220uf,whether actults results and on paper both were so good,it's 49mOhm,not behind in similars.if you do not change the capacity without replace that.
  
http://site.thecapking.com/Files/hz.pdf


----------



## here7423

In that position, ensure the impedance small enough,that capacity is not a problem.


----------



## here7423

XtremeMusic is my first internal soundcard, along with a lot of beautyful memories of music, but I feel the sounds seems to have a cross section,not rounded,I'm right?
  
 These days, after some testing, I found a wierd capacitors, it's sooooo wierd,,,that is *C56*, opamp decoupling capacitor seems stay a wroung place,why its at the a/d split line's areas? I guess between the *C56* to opamp,the PCB inner layer , Negative voltage linear same time being shielding effect,you understand my mean? 22UF not enough for decoupling, so making the sounds like have a cross-section.
  
 Ok,we found the reason,through many tests in happy,when parallel above a 33UF capacitor, awsome! the sounds turn on right! *C56* real capacity should be keep consistent with it's Number, is 56UF!
  
 Do you guys agreed that? Try this!


----------



## here7423

Second wierd capacitor is *C75*, the correct capacity is 220UF! above bass went soft.
  
 The third wierd capacitor is *C46*, the correct capacity is 220UF! above will distorted in record channel.
  
 The fourth wierd is a resistance *R235*, the correct values is 0 Ohm!
  
 Not a lot, just 3 caps 1 resistance need change I found.Perfect without spending too much...
  
 The reason is simple,that positive and negative 12V from PC power supply was unbalanced.


----------



## voemeh

Those are power section caps according to this?
http://i.imgur.com/Jj0twHN.jpg


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## here7423

Yes,voemeh,it is.
 next step i'll raising the voltage to 10V and make most opamps working well.


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## ramachandra

voemeh:
  
 The 2200uF 16V is too much with the new caps around the DAC together, because both have similar impact + you have no TCXO installed to set it back somewhat + make things worst the stock JRC OpAmps a complete bottleneck, the same setup with a different chip significantly better.
  
 here7423:
  
 Most OpAmps do their optimal performance from 12V. If you can feed them with +12V and -12V from proper external source is the best. Than i believe the good old XtremeMusic easily can outperform a PCI-Express Titanium.


----------



## here7423

Hello Rama,Yes you mentioned the key point.for reduce the PCI noise,some soundcard add buffer opamps or add DC-DC mode.but how to direct +/-12V without noise?this is very troublesome.

 expect someone have a better design for sb0460.
  
 I think add 78M10,79M10,should be one of the feasible options,78M10 and 79M10, Ripple Rejection:60-80db,dropout voltage:2V.


----------



## here7423

3 x 10UF caps around the DAC, I only replaced the *C91* with Elna cerafine and Elna silmicII,when cerafine,treble is too prominent,music is not music already,when silmicII,sounds is not natural too,this place tantalum caps is better. the caps around ADC using Elna silmicII is better, tantalum caps make sounds has a lot of dry, melody lost extension a little.But still there is overcorrection.


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## here7423

Elna silmicII has some polyester caps sound,Elna cerafine has similar to solid caps,put in the wrong place, not supplements anyway,they are drugs.


----------



## here7423

C124,ADC@7 ,DVDDigital positive supply
 C123,ADC@13,VMIDADC:ADC midrail divider decoupling pin; 10uF external decoupling
 C115,ADC@15,ADCREFP:ADC positive reference decoupling pin; 10uF external decoupling
 C101,ADC@16,AVDD Analogue positive supply
  
 Do you have any other choice?


----------



## here7423

HI GUYS,now the Sounds bright,deep and wide,especially when listening the vocals, full of charm and color,I connt go back, but the treble still unnatural a lttle,may be the tant caps was wrong? may be the DAC's feedback cap is Silmic One not SilmicII? just a step away to success.
 these days will upgrade.


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## here7423

Look at these:


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## ramachandra

You have changed capacitor values, used new components so your mod is a different from mine, and I'm not surprised about a your conclusion under the circumstances. It is work like a scale what you try to keep in balance, and sometimes turn out good, sometimes not. Later if you add a TCXO, it will upset the balance again or set it right, who knows. Give a chance for the caps to burn in properly for min. 5 days, it really makes a difference.
 Tantalum & ceramic capacitors is the bottom-end for the analog circuits, this is what i told, and I have experienced. Search for "tantalum" on the page, just for an example:
 http://www.bext.com/replace.htm


----------



## here7423

Thank you RAMA, and thanks your details wizard.
 *C91* when 2 silmicII 22uf,connect in series,sounds turn on better today.
 and have bought some different versions of "Brown God".
 now sounds caught the heart straight,touch it,comfortable.


----------



## here7423

Super sounds,so excited huh...
  Recommended strongly you change the 3 caps valules and shorted 1 resistance,Top subversion!


----------



## here7423

OPamp,2xAD825, did very well here,cheap and nice one,I like it, It's two things with 5V and 10V, when +/-5V, much like the EP NJM2114's sounds, wide and scattered.
 Others I tested AD8066 and LM7162, AD8066 a bit narrow like NJM4556, but more bright, LM7162's treble unnatural .AD825 was a surprice to me after rising voltage.


----------



## here7423

Silmic one lost a little fresh than SilmicII,Two nice than One.but 10uf/16V SilmicII,not suitable for *C91*,perhaps effect of the CERAFINE 100uf/16v,treble is not natural.
 when 2x22uf/16v connect in series,now heard well.Other 2 Tantalum caps does not need replace, especially the VQ-pin *C108*, all is SilmicII,the sound became gray.music missing the sense of pleasure.


----------



## voemeh

I tried to switch opamp to AD8599 on my sb0730... was so hard to solder that and i completely demolished one pad :x opamps (ssop8) on sb0730 are smaller than soic8. I have tried few methodes. The one with "pointy cables" from pads failed when i was only 2 more legs to complete it :d
 Anyway is there any god way to reconstruct pad and trail on pcb?
  
 I have put back together my older sb0460 but still crackling sound in right channel appears on volume over 50%. Farting/crackling only on intense sounds. Here7423 any ideas what might causing it?
 Maybe it's still fixable.


----------



## here7423

HI voemeh,you need a 8PIN 1.27 pitch double Sockets,and the pins Cut from the caps,looking for the fixed points be correct,soldering back together.


----------



## here7423

+/-10V voltage parts:


----------



## here7423

4 decoupling caps around the ADC is another important part,big effects of DAC, here not need tant caps again,and when use the 10uf/16 SilmicII,unnatural sounds will come back,this part need reduce the effects of tant caps,C115 and C123,10uf/16v turn to 22uf/16 silmicII,sounds was well.These changed is matched with previous.


----------



## ramachandra

If you check the datasheets the under "ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM RATINGS" you find the DAC's analog section taking max 6V and the ADC's can run from 7V safe. The heat sinks maybe keeping them okay for now, the time will tell how long. The optimal working conditions is 5-5.5V is what they need, higher voltage not necessarily an advantage on every level, because can significantly increase distortion.


----------



## here7423

That was unthinkable,just rising the voltage of Opamp please.Cut the +5V supply to Opamp leave the 0.1uf cap,-5v are only to the Opamp, no need fly the conecting line.


----------



## ramachandra

Sorry, i have confused myself on the images and something else. I had fun with other stuff in the last 2 years, the smaller details are fading.


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## here7423

Is me didn't said in detail,ok,now upgrade here's X-FI MOD final version,picture was edited,some different but basic from you,so enjoy it,thank you RAMA!


----------



## here7423

Last question focused on the C119, Elna SilmicII have the Polyester caps sounds there,Elna Cerafine's bass no good than tant caps,but different tant caps different sounds, different voltage values different sounds, wish smebody fowllow this and find the best one share for us.


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## here7423

In order to strengthen the filtering of negative voltage, increase power reserve.
 I'm changed some caps values:
  
 *C75* 22uf to 220uf;
 *C46* 100uf to 220uf;
 *C56* 22uf to 56uf,
 and shorted a resistance *R235*
  
 This is my first step,if you do not change the Opamp voltage and do not replac other caps,wish sounds has a big improved,on the back of the PCB,just parallel a few caps can be.
  
 If you want to continue,please get ready to sound not as good as the first step.


----------



## here7423

Final version upgrade now...I have been using SILMICII replaced the CERAFINE 100uf/16v,and carefully adjust the ADC part again,now everything is acceptable,Tant cap's sound to me,its not possible to forget, I want to say that no tant caps in it isn't a good soundcard,that the cerafine removed is smiling now.


----------



## tahir

Hi,
 i have only access to the Op-Amps from this store, please suggest me alternative as i want to just update from the default opamps on x-fi 460
  
 http://www.evselectro.com/ics/op-amps?page=1
  
 here are the items listed there but i dont know which ones are audio grade and good quality.
  
 here is the list from webstore
  

CA3130 15MHz with MOSFET Input/CMOS Output
AD707 Ultralow Drift
AD622 Instrumentation Amplifier
4558D Dual Operational Amplifiers
LA4440 6W 2-Channel, Bridge 19W Type Power Amplifier
LM1876TF Dual 20W Audio Power Amplifier
AD624AD Precision Instrumentation Amplifier
TL081 Op Amp
AD708JN Ultralow Dual Op Amp
AD744 BiFET Op Amp
LT1054
MC1458CPI (Duel) Operational Amplifiers
LF351 JFET input Operational Amplifier
LF357 JFET input operational amplifier
LM311N Voltage Comparator
LM318N High Speed Operational Amplifier
LM339 Single Supply Quad Comparators HQ
LM358 Low Power Dual Operational Amplifiers
LM386 Low Voltage Audio Power Amplifier
LM393 (Duel)
LM725
LM741CN
LM1875 Audio Power Amplifier
LM747 (Duel)
TL064 Op Amp
TL071 Operational Amplifier
TL071CP Single Operational Amplifier Original USA
TL072 Operational Amplifier
TL074 Low Noise J-FET Quad Operational Amplifirs
TL082 Operational Amplifier
TL084 Operational Amplifier
LF353 Wide Bandwidth Dual JFET Input Operational Amplifier
LM324 (Quad) Operational Amplifiers
LM2901 Low-power quad voltage comparator
LM2902N (Quad)
LM2903 Low Offset Voltage Dual Comparator
LM2904 Operational Amplifier


----------



## blue2010

Hello Friends!
  
 I have a modified X-fi (modified by the master himself, ramachandra).
  
 Since one month i have a really strange issue!
 Sometimes my computer suddenly freezes and then there's a loud bass coming out of my speakers for about 0,5 sec, followed by a really high pitch noise that is killing my ears. The only thing i can do at this moment is to turn off my speakers or shut down the computer.
 First i thought it was a software issue, so i formatted my hard drive and installed a fresh copy of windows with original creative drivers. And for about one week, everything went fine. I watched movies, heard to music etc... but yesterday evening the same thing happened again while watching a movie.
 PC freeze, loud bass followed by loud screech like noise.
 I'm really afraid this could damage my speakers - and my ears 
  
 I hope someone can help!
  
 thanks in advance


----------



## Foxer

@blue2010
 this may be a little late, but could it be the clock generator?


----------



## Foxer

@ramachandra Thank you for all the time and dedication you took to create this great tutorial! 
 I know it's been a while, but I recently bought an X-Fi Elite Pro, and I'm looking to modify it.
 I'm thinking to replace the 4 omaps, with the "OPA1602AID" ones, including sockets.
 Maybe later I will try the Elna Silmic II 1500uf 16V (or 24V maybe? or 50V?) for the power CAP.
 The TCXO clock, i'm a bit scared to try, because of problems that it may bring in the future.. I'm not sure.. But what I do know, is that if everything is going well, I would like to replace more and more caps with the ones you specified.
 In any case.. are all the mods listed in the tutorial compatible with the X-Fi Elite Pro? Should I watch out for anything?
 The Elite Pro: http://www.ixbt.com/multimedia/creative/x-fi/card-big.jpg
  
 Thanks!


----------



## ramachandra

Hi,
  
 Years ago i got an Elite Pro to upgrade. I dug up some images, the owner was only interested about the front channels. As i recall the decoupling capacitors are the 47uF, the brown Silmics on the image in the crowded area. I had to put some of them to the other side. Probably 0.1uF film landed on the pins of the rest of the caps belong to the DAC (Cerafines on the image). The first line of the capacitors belong to the 3 other DACs from the right, the rest is the 47uF decoupling on the left.
 I had some issue with space for the main capacitor so i had to move one Jamicon to the back. I had to cover the panel with a tape for the TCXO and you can see how i managed to stabilize it with epoxy. The two 220uF Silmic II is for the OpAmps.
 The orange film is 0.1uF between the V+ V- pins over the OpAmp. People liked it on other forums with different setup, to be honest i just installed it and spent not time to find out how good it is. I moved to external DACs for some time. The two green is 1uF 63V film and a 0.1uF 63V in parallel for the main cap.


----------



## Foxer

@ramachandra thanks for the quick reply and for all the great info!
 I'm currently REreading everything that is written in the tutorial and trying to understand everything as best as i can, and i'll be back in a day or two with all questions that i have ..so i don't make a mess of the forum 
  
 Just one question for now: The 1ppm TCXO 24.576MHz clock generator uses 3.3V if i'm not mistaking... and you connected it to the +/-5V floppy molex connecter... Isn't that bad? 
 The computer power supply delivers  3.3V to the motherboard through the brown wire. Wouldn't that be a better source of power for the TCXO? 
  
 P.S. In comparison with the OPA1602AID, have you had a chance to try these single channel OpAmps? :
  
  *LT1028ACN8* 
  
  *AD797BRZ*
  
 and these were actually on the "Elfidelity - Revolution X-Fi MOD Sound-Card" _(total redesign of X-Fi E.Pro with the aim of creating the best soundcard possible)_
 2x *SA5534N* and 2x *NE5534AN* and 2x *LT1028A*
  
 (all i know is the NE5534 is an OpAmp from the 1980's and is said to sound extremely natural even by today's standards... Just don't know how it fairs against the OPA1602AID)


----------



## Foxer

Upon further inspection, i realized some (if not all) of the 24.576MHz TCXO are dual voltage 3.3v & 5v. But that still begs the question: wouldn't 3.3v be better for the TCXO, in terms of stability, longevity & heat?
  
 Anyway, after reading the final pages of the "Hotrodding the X-Fi: A Layman's Guide (No 56k)" i came across these 2 posts from the user @gordo999 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/226975/hotrodding-the-x-fi-a-laymans-guide-no-56k/2160#post_10109783
http://www.head-fi.org/t/226975/hotrodding-the-x-fi-a-laymans-guide-no-56k/2160#post_10121686
 and man.. this kinda got me thinking about the long run of these mods. Even @ramachandra after all his experience with this mods, concluded at the end of his tutorial (more or less regarding the Titanium HD), that : "_If you are not looking for adventures best bang for the money is to change the OpAmps and the crystal to an ultraprecision clock and be happy_."
  
 I myself know a thing or two about electronics --not enough to say that i'm an expert-- but some common knowledge that i came across a while back was regarding the big impact that capacitors have on the stability of complex circuitry, and how you should not change the values or "mix and match" CAPs because that might affect the impedance(measured in ohms) and/or may behave slightly different.
 I know this should not be the case with Power Filtering CAPs (contrary to what _gordo999_ said) & that's why i'm still thinking of changing that CAP with something like an Elna Silmic II  16or24V 1000or1500uf_(depending on rama's suggestion for the X-Fi E.P. WITH TCXO)_ + 1uF film + 0.1uF film ...Again this is just my opinion + the "masive" positive experience that other people claim to have after upgrading that CAP. But even @here7423 using the poorly google-translated english, is on to something here: "_Digital parts, the main capacitor, I like choose the motherboard capacitor with impedance minimum,can only be Nichicon HZ series's 16v 1800uf, 6.5mOhm,there is no other choice_." not regarding the fact that he chose a Nichicon, but regarding the fact that he chose a low impedance CAP (which is actually listed in it's Datasheet). The Silmic II doesn't have this listed. Just thought this might be an interesting perspective besides ESR, as lower impedance CAPs also better handle ripple current (from my understanding).
  
 Anyway, while on the subject of longevity of the circuits, Ramachandra, how did your friend's X-Fi E. Pro hold up over the years with these mods? Is it still ok and working?
 One thing _gordo999_ didn't touch upon, was the TCXO oscilator upgrade. But he did scare me a bit on possible incompatibilities with some OpAmps, saying that most aren't just a direct swap, and they might strain the circuitry around them.... Hence a lot of people with modded X-Fi'es, declared their cards dead or malfunctioning after a year or two.
  
 I'm waiting to hear your thoughts on this Rama! And of course anybody elses.


----------



## ramachandra

The +5V maybe better for the TCXO to reach the optimal working temperature quicker. It has influence over the performance, probably not on the level to be interested.
  
 There is a chance most X-Fi card will not last for a decade, with or without modification, still the TCXO remain operational for ages. The modified Titanium on the thread is beyond 3 years old now, the Elite Pro on the image is modified in 2013 January, still kicking. My Titanium HD on the image only used to drive my desktop DACs, and I had removed the components from it for better use. I have it this way for a while, and I had some cracking sound from the optical out for few months and recently all back to normal. Perhaps driver related.
 There are 7 other modified cards all of them was done at least 2 years from now, i know the whereabouts for 4 today. A Titanium stopped working for the owner, later turned out just some mess under Win8, nothing serious. The XtremeMusic I was used to do the bypass of the muting circuit was a gift to my brother. He had a a strongly outdated PC with constant problems, he gave it back, he sad it is doing sometime funny things. Few months later his PC had a bad end. The X-Fi still running in my girlfriend's also not great computer, occasionally one of the front channel has no sound until warm up. I haven't investigate, I jut gave her a DAC to use with it. The Titanium I have done for blue2010 is a hard to know, a computer can crash for lot of reasons. I gave my advice what to do against the sonic boom for his Pod free Z5500, I haven't heard about how it turned out for him.
 I have no news or complaint about the rest.
  
 I respect gordo999's opinion from the technical point, there are very important things to consider during  design and manufacturing, only a fool taking unnecessary risk and gamble with a hardly earned reputation. Still, simply going after plain data and optimal requirement for circuits is proved time to time not always enough for best sound quality by perception.
 Look like he unnoticed the trend. Decent sound cards are coming out with DIP8 sockets, allow the user to chose.
 For example engineers (yet) can't tell why is a sound difference between two different speaker wires, there are many theories, or even blame on imagination. Wires are plain most common components in electronics, nothing complicated. What about the rest then?....
 When a second hand XtremeMusic cost roughly 22$ with shipping and still sound as a competition for the new stuff, I consider a mod worthy the risk & fun. Now, you have a more expensive hardware, it is up to you.
  
 There are lot of experiences to read about OpAmps, the important thing they have to pass the test with your gear. The +5V far from ideal, if a chips perform pretty good in other equipment from the +12 and -12V, not necessary live up for the same expectation on this cards by listening. This is one point why the redesigned Elite Pro you linked is still a good a distance to be the best. No offense, it is a nice mod and a good direction, and hard work, yet even wit my limited understanding it is incomplete. Redesigning the card for PCI Express or the ultimate solution is proper external power source is alone a game changer, the Nichicon FW (mostly used) the entry level for audio, and the list can go further... The price started from 1250$ and now i can take it for 50% less included shipping. A generous offer, I just feel sorry for the victims.
  
 majkel tried lot of OpAmps, on his tread the the LT1028ACN8 and AD797BRZ is listed, he settled with OPA228p, and later with the OPA2228p when he made some more work on his equipment. I took this chip, and few other most popular on other threads, the above mentioned turn out as the ultimate winner. One day the sample OPA1602 shown up and took the lead. I think I never tried NE5534 on sound cards, in external DACs I found them uninteresting.
  
 Believe or not, the main cap still bothering me, because if you think about the X-Fi chip, it is very much the digital part of the card, maybe the first modders just used the well respected Black Gate and we went after that idea like sheep. I do not know how well that part was investigated. Most of the audio grade capacitors are Low ESR and that is what matter for the digital circuits most, a capacitance increase even with a general purpose capacitor is beneficial in that position. Perhaps it has noting to do with audio grade stuff on the first place, only the lowest ESR is the best. If i start today this thread i do a less sloppy work and recheck. I have 1000uF 16V OS-CON in stock, but i do not have the strong imprint burnt in in my mind after years of use anymore, to evaluate.


----------



## Foxer

Wow, great detailed post! thanks Rama! 
 I will take into consideration all the info you have shared, and think about what i actually want to do. 
 To be honest, except for the poor spectrum of the bass, i almost have nothing against this card. I recently hooked it up to my old PIONEER VSX-D557
 >>this guy here>> and using the amplifier's Treble adjustment and "Loudness" button, it sounds almost perfect (although the "Loudness" Setting kills a bit of the clarity). 
 Again, TBH, i wish i didn't have to use the adjustments on the pioneer, and also the MIDS have to be a bit accentuated in the Creative equalizer, but the still unsolvable problem is the BASS. Even with the AMP's bass adjustment, it only enhances one portion of the bass, but not all of it.
 My old Audigy2 had superb base, i don't understand what's wrong with the X-Fi.. Messing with the equalizer in the Creative Console does help a little bit.. but still.. i shouldn't have to do that, and it's still not perfect.
 Besides, when i switch to Bit-Matched Playback, i loose the equalizer.. so i'm back to square one.
  
 Did the OPA1602AID (or other opamps) help at all with the base??
  
_(btw, i read somewhere that the Elite Pro supplies the Opamps with +/-12V .. i know the other X-FI's supply just 5V if i'm not mistaken. ..Just a thought.)_
  
 I'm also wondering if the opamp replacement only acts as a "hardware equalizer", and just changes some of the frequency levels (like you could simply achieve using the Creative software equalizer), and not really "creating" any more clarity than the X-Fi already had. Do you know if anyone measured the audio outputs or distortion before and after changing any opamps??
  
 Sorry if i keep bombarding you with questions Rama, but after asking around on an electronics forum, my head started spinning after everyone criticized the idea so heavily and saying that the opamp and the circuitry around it are designed for each other, and changing it will only introduce distortion to the sound (maybe like an equalizer does), or even worse.. I actually had to leave the forum, that's how bad the discussion got..
 Yes, i saw that the newer cards have swappable opamps.. and other high end audio equipment also have their opamps on sockets.. That's mainly the reason that keeps me engaged in this mod 
  
 Although i've got more than decent soldering skills, i would really like to be sure that the improvements are real (not something that you could just do with an equalizer), and are perceivable enough... The card didn't cost me much (~50$) but i may not be able to source another card as cheep and in such great condition as i got this one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 - Also, related to the main power CAP; do you know if it's connected in parallel? or in series? 
 (Because from the little bit of electronics that i know; i know that it's not recommended to change a series CAP with another one of a different resistance, because the circuitry around it depends on the cap to have that specific resistance.. it was built with it in mind.)
 So again, sorry for taking up your time Rama, but i just need to make sure of a few things. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
_(later edit)_
 P.S., did you happen to test the *AD8599* OpAmp?


----------



## ramachandra

"My old Audigy2 had superb base, i don't understand what's wrong with the X-Fi.." Nothing, except the muting circuit, what the Audigy 2 probably had. Those transistors help to produce more solid bass but degrade the clarity in exchange. 
  
 "_(btw, i read somewhere that the Elite Pro supplies the Opamps with +/-12V .. i know the other X-FI's supply just 5V if i'm not mistaken. ..Just a thought.)" I have not had a look on that when the _Elite Pro was here_. This voltages are present in the PCI socket and I don't know what was the point to not using it on the others then._
  
 "Did the OPA1602AID (or other opamps) help at all with the base??" Very much, and do more than that. You will be surprised about the details of bass with this chip. It has clear but not hear piercing high, the mids are beautiful the string instrument are really alive.
  
 "I'm also wondering if the opamp replacement only acts as a "hardware equalizer" " Definitely not. It is like trying a pair dirt cheap speakers sound like a good expensive pair. It just not gonna happen.
  
 "Do you know if anyone measured the audio outputs or distortion before and after changing any opamps??" I had seen few measures on the Layman's Guide.
  
 "designed for each other, and changing it will only introduce distortion to the sound" On the level what humans usually not able to hear, yet enough for some people to go nuts on it. You will find most OpAmps work without complications. If you get a chip what is not like the config you pull it out and put in another what it does. Simple. For example I have built the reference circuits from the datasheet of the OPA1602 and I had a problem. With any chips I have used in it I loved the sound, except with the OPA1602.
  
 "i would really like to be sure that the improvements are real"  I'm sure the PIONEER VSX-D557 is next, you just don't know yet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 "- Also, related to the main power CAP; do you know if it's connected in parallel? or in series? " I doubt it is in series. I do not have my faulty XtremeMusic to do more scratching to find it out for you. I had another card I have not mentioned above, it is suffered damage on a faulty PCI extension. I kept it for sometime to exploring then i dumped.
  
 "did you happen to test the *AD8599* OpAmp?" No.


----------



## Foxer

ramachandra said:


> "Did the OPA1602AID (or other opamps) help at all with the base??" Very much, and do more than that. You will be surprised about the details of bass with this chip. It has clear but not hear piercing high, the mids are beautiful the string instrument are really alive.


 
 OMG, this argument single handedly sold me on the OPA1602AID )))) I'm ordering it as soon as i settle on the capacitors!  (I have a few Panasonic FM's in mind for main cap [FM esr < FC esr] , as i'm not able to find ELNA or Blackgates)
  
 ..Might also get some AD8599.. they praised it way too much over here>> http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/x-fi-sound-bugs-i-think-i-have-a-solution.23582/​ so i might as well give it a try. 
  
 Also those 3 pages on the linked forum were such a good read! For instance, in this post http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/x-fi-sound-bugs-i-think-i-have-a-solution.23582/page-2#post-836847 the user @trodas posted some images of @bichi's work, in >this pic< shows measurements of the main power Cap, before and after replacement with a solid polymer 330uF at !! 6.3V !! with ultra low ESR (0.025ohm)..
 and they said that there's only 1.23V passing through there, so the 16V cap is overkill (altho the original CAP there is known to crap out... which shouldn't happen to a 16v cap running at just 1.23V .. but i don't know...). Most of the images there seem to be missing, but are still downloadable once you click on them. It's just such a shame that the _"X-Fi_Elite_Pro_parts.txt"_ file isn't available for download anymore 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, as that could have helped me. There is A LOT of info on those 3 pages.. although i can't verify (or sometimes even understand) almost half of it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  But it seems that the main power cap might not be just a myth 
  
 I'm loosing way too much sleep over this soundcard ...reminds me of college


----------



## ramachandra

Good to have at least few different OpAmps in the beginning. Some of them may not turn out as favorite later, but there will be certain things what they do better or different than the others. A pleasing experience specially with headphones.
  
 I was talking to my relative about modifications in the very beginning, and he was skeptic. I went to the local store to get a 2200uF general purpose and few 0.1uF film capacitors. I have soldered the new stuff on and he was happy about the small improvement, He sad, I just realize I had no bass before. He thought It is done. I sad I haven't yet started, this is only a small demonstration. The cost was insignificant.


----------



## Foxer

Yes, this is the route i'm intending to take also.. first step: try and get my bass back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ..and make sure my ears and audio hardware can sense the difference.
  
 I will soon place the order on Farnell for the OpAmps and capacitors (sadly they don't have small films of less than 100V, which seems a bit much..  i may try to find some locally ..[also no compatible TCXO on their website] ) and i will post updates on how things are going. 
  
 Thanks sooo much Ramachandra!!


----------



## SlimBo

hi Everybody
 i need help with my Asus Xonar DS & My Xi-Fi Xtreme Audio
 i want to short some caps for better sound clarity but i don't know which one...
 THX


----------



## ramachandra

When i tried to short caps the flat sound, no dynamic on the front channel left me unimpressed on the XtremeMusic, the rest was OK. You find 2 caps belong to every OpAmps on the right side of each. The images on the thread shows the decoupling capacitors on different cards, it will help to locate them. So you can solder the pins together without removing them and decide.
  
 The DS already have relays on the signal path of the front, so nothing can be done on that. The rest of the channels have, but i never had this cards, and i rather not go in details even it is working in theory. I'm sure other threads are available somewhere.
  
 My opinion is, new audio grade capacitors and OpAmps do a much better job in comparison. If you really love this cards a precise clock do a miracle too, and later you can reuse it on your better hardware.


----------



## SlimBo

i thank you for your answer ramachandra


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## Atif Mehmood

Hi
 I can't find that pin can u help me plz ??


----------



## Atif Mehmood

Hi
 I can't find that pin to cut +5v supply
 can u help me plz ???


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## ramachandra

I guess you looking for the output pin of the ST 78M05, what is on the top left corner of the regulator. C197 is printed on the PCB beside. Datasheet here.


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## Foxer

Dear @ramachandra .. it's bean a while since we talked, and i can't thank you enough for your guidance!
 I finally (successfully)  moded my Elite Pro 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 - I replaced all 4 stock OpAmps with the OPA1602AID you suggested 
 - I replaced all 16 output decoupling capacitors (for all 4 channels) with ELNA Silmic II of the same values (47uF 16V)
 - I replaced the 2 caps for the power supply of the opamps, with ElNA Silmic II of the same values (220uF 25V)
  
 - I replaced the main power cap (the one after the power supply chip) with a 100uf 6.5v MURATA ceramic capacitor + a 1500uf 16v Panasonic FK with an ESR of 0,060 ohms.
 Also tried 1000uf 6.3V Pana FC with ESR of 0,090ohms .. with no apparent sounding difference.. Actually no CAP here made any sounding difference to me.. but only tested with the speakers, not the headphones. (Also, there are actually only 1.25v passing through there, and it's only going to the digital processor, so i don't know how on earth would this affect the base... except if it's also going someplace else?! idk).
 Next up, will be a Pana FM 1200uF@6.3V w/ ESR: 0,026 ohms. And this is kind of the limit that the Power supply chip can withstand in terms of low ESR. 
  
 - I replaced C154 (the 22uf 16v cap before the power supply chip) with a Panasonic FC 100uF
 - Put a grounded "shield" on the back of the sound card, made of: aluminium foil, paper, and scotch/sticky tape. ... which... didn't have any effect whatsoever on the sound. 
  
 Before i state the conclusions, i also want to mention one more thing: I too had the crackling sound problem in some games (batman arkam asilum, GTA5,  Heaven and Valley benchmarks were the worst) which has been a bit reduced after changing the capacitors before and after the power supply chip. And MORE reduced after doing the rest of the mods, which i did all in one go. 
 Also i tried the card on a friend's computer, the sound artefacts were there only 50% of the time (this was after changing only the 2 caps @ the power supply chip TPS54352). My PC-s power supply IS 6 years old, and does have awful coil whine when in load.. so i'm also taking that into consideration, as the artefacts manifest themselves only when the PSU is also "screaming".  
  
  
 Ok, conclusions time:
  
 You know how i complained about the x-fi not sounding as sweet as the Audigy 2 ?? (although the X-fi had better music resolution and clarity) 
 Well that's now over. It sounds so much like the Audigy2, that they are almost indistinguishable! Literally!
 I played the same set of tracks that i played almost a year ago when i did the comparison, on both computers, testing both cards in parallel, same player, same headphones, and i could barely, BARELY distinguish between the two.
 Compared to b4 the mod,  the X-fi now has more volume and sounds nicer, pleasant highs, mids, and especially base.. but sadly, the refinement has gone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .. I can also barely distinguish between Entertainment mode, and Audio Creation mode w/ 44.1khz setting and "bitmatched" enabled.... The "premium" sound is just not there any more. 
 I don't know if it's the caps, or the opamps that are cutting out all that detail, but i'm really wondering why this is happening..  What i want to try, is to put a WIMA PPfilm of 0.15uf 250v  +  a 10uf 25v ELNA SilmicII on the +/- of the opamp, and see if this changes anything... If not, i'm also gonna change the two 220uf silmics with some low ESR Panasonic FM's.. bcoz Silmics have pretty high ESR sadly... 
 Maybe it's that. Just the opamps not having enough constant juice.. I read something about rail-to-rail opamps bringing in more distortion, and 1602 are rail-to-rail.
 Also, i noticed a really big positive difference in sound dynamics when i turn the volume (in windows) from 50% to over 70%. 
  
 Overall, the Elite Pro is now more pleasant to listen to, and not fatiguing any more.. But i can definitely sense that some of it's good aspects are also gone..
 Although i could go back (as i didn't damage any of the stock components), I don't regret the mod...  I'm just kinda pissed as the card is now only a tiny bit better than the audigy 2.
  
 I also want to continue and replace most (if not all) of the remaining caps on the card with Panasonic FC/FM in pursuit of getting rid of the crackling/artefacts. 
  
  
 I will post updates as i make changes
  
 ----- 
 Pic during upgrade.
 The new opamps (with decoupling caps still out for more room to work, eventually replaced with silmics II)


----------



## ramachandra

Hello Foxer,
  
 So you couldn't  give up on the idea to make your own beast. Good.
  
 The bigger caps for the X-Fi chip also have an impact on the separation of the instruments and the space around the listener.
  
 Now, not only the hidden positive properties surface, but also the remaining weaknesses. If you make further progress around the DACs you get more analog sound, and I strongly recommend install a TCXO to get the badly needed clarity.
  
 Early on the thread I have agreed the decoupling caps have the most improvement on the sound after the new OpAmps. Few years and modified cads later I have to admit the new caps for the DAC chip have the bigger impact. The decoupling caps only have a little in comparison. There is a common misunderstanding in the audio wold, what I believed about the capacitors on the signal path in the past. Most people think it is enjoy the priority to upgrade to improve sound, and the rest maybe have some effect, or none. The time proved to me this assumption is wrong.
  
 "If not, i'm also gonna change the two 220uf silmics with some low ESR Panasonic FM's.." Give a chance for the burn in. Panasonic FM, FC only the entry level for audio, the Lowest ESR not the automatic winner on the analog section. A different personal preference of course make perfect sense. We are all different.
  
 The owner of the Elite Pro card I have modified had another, before we had met. He told me he sold it after few years of use. One day he found the capacitors are just about to fail.
 When he got the current he became disappointed, the new had different sound and set of capacitors. The Creative shown tendency to make changes to fix problems related to reliability and cut back on cost & quality on the same models. No wonder why yours having the cracking sound.


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## Foxer

@ramachandra
      A friend who is pretty advanced in electronics, also told the me same! That the caps for the DACs (2 for each DAC on the E.Pro) would make a huge difference if they were changed.
 As i can make out, there is one cap  for the power supply of the DAC (100uF@24V i think), and the other is on the signal output of the DAC (which i think is the most important one - 47uF@16V i think). I may have to make sure which is which.
 The DACs currently have G-Luxon [SS] ("general-purpose" Series) on them. So basically ESR either wasn't taken into consideration..  either, it shouldn't be too small.
 .---What do you suggest for the DAC's? ELNA Serafine? Something else? Please elaborate as much as you can here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



      (i was thinking a good choice would be SILMIC 2 on the output (which i only have 2 of them left from my previous order), and Pana FC on the power supply side. Problem is, i can't get any more ELNAs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Coz the next order has to be from FARNELL and they don't have ELNA.)
  
  
 "and I strongly recommend install a TCXO to get the badly needed clarity."
  
      Yes, I've been thinking about this for a few days, and been making a bit of research.
 Problem is the supply for the 4-pin TCXO.. in this MOD, it's getting voltage directly from the computer's PSU... which isn't too good, as it needs REALLY clean power (or at least that's what i read).
 So i was thinking... what if i could find a normal 2-pin crystal of far superior quality compared to the one on the board(?!) And i'm still researching this, as i just found out that these crystals also have "capacitance" ratings.. And i'm trying to find out what mine's rating is for best compatibility (if all else fails, I recently bought a Capacitance/ESR meter 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ).
  
  
 "Give a chance for the burn in. Panasonic FM, FC only the entry level for audio, the Lowest ESR not the automatic winner on the analog section. A different personal preference of course make perfect sense. We are all different."
  
        After a "burn in" for @15-20hours using mostly headphones with 70-75% volume in Windows, it did start to sound a bit more detailed, and to distinguish a bit more from the Audigy 2, but not as much as before the MOD... Something definitely robed the sound card of a little bit of detail.. 
 This week i will have time to add the WIMA caps (and maybe the 10uF silmics) in the OpAmps voltage supply pins.. And see if that helps with anything.
 (Measuring with the ESR meter, i saw that the 220uf silmics have almost half of the ESR of the previous G-Luxon caps.. So i'll leave those alone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  )
  
  
 "The bigger caps for the X-Fi chip also have an impact on the separation of the instruments and the space around the listener."
      I still don't understand how this is possible, if it only affects the digital processor 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ..
  
 ---------
  
Later edit:
  
 Upon further inspection, i don't think any of the caps that belong to the DACs, are for the signal output.
 If they were, then there had to be 2 identical caps (1 for left stereo channel, and 1 for right stereo channel).
 So maybe they are both for voltage input.. I will check as soon as i get the chance


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## ramachandra

On the other X-Fi cards there is one decoupling capacitor for the positive one for the negative input so that is 2 caps/channel and 4 caps/OpAmp. You find loads of ELNA or Nichicon on eBay often cheaper. The different plastic cover on ELNAs are common, not because they are fake or inferior quality. Use Silmic II for the decoupling or Nichicon KZ. For the rest use Silmic II to get nice warm analog or Cerafine to get a colder precise sound. Both of them will make the sound warmer, and I recommend the Cerafines if your amplifier will get a similar mod or loaded with ELNAs already, otherwise the Silmic II is the best you can get, according me and most people.
 If there is a cap on the digital VDD pin 9, the solid electrolyte Sanyo OS-CON proved itself to be excellent in external DACs, to bring the circuits to the next level of clarity.
  
 The crystal is only a part of the clock, the rest need to be just as good. The lot of 1 and 0 is nice on paper, in reality the same rules of physics apply for analog and digital circuits. If we looking the history of the digital computers, there are mountains of technical challenges had to be overcome to achieve the clean, precise signals, using never perfect components, under never perfect conditions. The main chip is react to the changes and that is normal. The schematic from it is well kept secret, and certainly go light years beyond my understanding.


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## giannis89

voemeh said:


> Those are power section caps according to this?
> http://i.imgur.com/Jj0twHN.jpg


 
  
 Where the hell did THIS some from?? is it correct? 
  
 ps. Almos, it's Giannis. i'm back


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## ramachandra

Hello Giannis,
  
 How are you? Any progress on your Z since?


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## giannis89

ramachandra said:


> Hello Giannis,
> 
> How are you? Any progress on your Z since?


 
  
 I tried to fix the board several times, replaced a bunch of things but the amp chip always ended up fried as soon as i supplied with current. Never game me a chance to see what was actually wrong with the board. I bought a used one some years ago, i successfully changed all opamps and caps and there was definitely an upgrade in audio quality. i ended up selling them a couple of years ago though.


----------



## Foxer

ramachandra said:


> On the other X-Fi cards there is one decoupling capacitor for the positive one for the negative input so that is 2 caps/channel and 4 caps/OpAmp. You find loads of ELNA or Nichicon on eBay often cheaper. The different plastic cover on ELNAs are common, not because they are fake or inferior quality. Use Silmic II for the decoupling or Nichicon KZ. For the rest use Silmic II to get nice warm analog or Cerafine to get a colder precise sound. Both of them will make the sound warmer, and I recommend the Cerafines if your amplifier will get a similar mod or loaded with ELNAs already, otherwise the Silmic II is the best you can get, according me and most people.
> If there is a cap on the digital VDD pin 9, the solid electrolyte Sanyo OS-CON proved itself to be excellent in external DACs, to bring the circuits to the next level of clarity.
> 
> The crystal is only a part of the clock, the rest need to be just as good. The lot of 1 and 0 is nice on paper, in reality the same rules of physics apply for analog and digital circuits. If we looking the history of the digital computers, there are mountains of technical challenges had to be overcome to achieve the clean, precise signals, using never perfect components, under never perfect conditions. The main chip is react to the changes and that is normal. The schematic from it is well kept secret, and certainly go light years beyond my understanding.


 
 Because i was so sure the MOD result was gonna be all sunshine and butterflies, i didn't bother to take pictures of the "naked" PCB when i desoldered all the CAPs and OpAmps  (a decision which i DEEPLY regret). If i had done that, i would have had everything much easier now.. 
  
 After some analysis with the magnifying glass over the now very crowded PCB, and also checking the pinout schematics of the DACs, i came to these conclusions:
 - at least 2 (if not all 4) of the 47uF caps for every OpAmp, are actually on the signal path between the DAC and OpAmp, not Opamp and line-out jacks (as i previously thought), so these are actually what my friend said should be the most influential upon the sound..
 - The 3rd line of caps (the ones that belong to the DACs..( 1x47uf & 1x100uF for each DAC)) are actually (one) for some sort of voltage reference or something like that, and the other is for power supply to the analog part of the DAC.
 I could barely make out the traces on the PCB using the magnifying glass, so i'm not exactly 100% sure; but this is what i came up with.
  
 (Regarding what you mentioned about VDD on pin 9; I only have VD (V-in for Digital side of the DAC) on pin 7.. I will check to see if there is any electrolytic cap there, but i think there are only ceramic SMDs on that side of the DAC. )
  
 Also, i managed to try out a combination of a 0.15uF WIMA ppFilm + 10uF Silmic II on the V+/- of the OpAmp.. and to my surprise, the music sounded even worse.
 I don't know if you (or anyone else for that matter) had the possibility of a side-by-side comparison when doing upgrades (other than just using human memory); but it seems to me that the more SILMICs II i use, the more detail i loose.
 Every time i listen ONLY to the X-Fi by itself, it seems to sound more awesome with every passing moment. That is until i set it side by side with my trusty Audigy 2, and i can literally hear the X-Fi starting to get it's ass kicked by the Audigy. And this has been after burn-in. So yeah.. Human memory.. not that great.
 I even got my girlfriend to do some listening tests (just to check that i'm not crazy), and she felt the same way. 
 Accentuated mid-to-low bass, which felt a bit fake.. Loss of detail.. Numbed dynamics.. Boring highs.. 
  
 So yesterday I/we gave it a final hearing, and then removed the WIMA+ELNA combo.. and sure thing , the better sound came back.
 Now i'm not saying that it was awful to listen to.. It was a more "rounded" and homogeneous sound.. and i'm sure many people would have nothing to complain about..  But when i put this 500$ card side by side to a 50$ one, and the 50$ one sings nicer; to me that's a sign that these capacitors kinda' fall into the category of over-hyped products... (not to say they don't have their place, in a system that sounds too harsh or metallic).. but the 16 ones i replaced for the opamps, sound almost exactly the same as they did before the tenths of hours of burn-in that they got..  
  
 A good discussion to follow, here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/171907-elna-silmic-ii-elna-cerafine-5.html#post3500028
 I'm seriously reconsidering using Panny FM's for the DACs, and also replacing the 2x 220uF@25V SILMICs with Panny FM's. They're easier to find, fit better, have VERY good ESR so they're perfect for power supply side, AND they might reduce the blurring of the details.
 It's a 500$ card with studio-grade DACs, for crying out loud.. I want details!!  ))
  
 As a funny side-note, I went to get my driver's licence renewed today. And had to go through all the medical exams and such.. and obviously, one of them was a hearing exam.. And turns out I still have very good hearing for my age (30) !!
 So i wand my details!!!! .. while i can still hear 'em ))
  
 Today i will add back just the WIMA Cap and see where that stands..  Hope better than a 90's cassette; coz that's where the sound was at last time.


----------



## Foxer

Ok. So the WIMA-mk4  0.15uF@250V PolyPropylene Film cap is back on the OpAmp.
 These are my impressions:
 (based on "stars" rating)
  
 w/o  any cap on the OpAmp: [4 stars]
 w/    only the wima cap:        [4.5 stars]
 w/ both wima and 10uf Silmic II: [3 stars] .. (so @pelopidas's advice regarding the silmic on the Opamp, didn't really work out on the Elite Pro )
  
  
 Real life impressions:
 (compared to no cap on the Opamp)
  
 some detail came back 
 some portions of some songs feel a bit more bright
 (and this might be just my imagination) but i feel there's a little more bass.. the good kind of bass.. bass that's in the right place, not flooding over the mids.  
  
 Now i'm really curious to see how Panasonic FM's will behave as power caps for the OpAmps (in place of the two (huge) 220uF Elnas). 
 If they will do ok as power supply caps for analog; i think i'll use them for the DACs (analog side) also.. 
 Fingers crossed


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## pelopidas

Thats a serious mod 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 You are more courageous than I would be, so hats off to you.
 Finding the right cap is not so formulaic as saying "elna is the best". I have found some rules of thumb though that serve as a good starting point, but experimentation is key. Any capacitor that feeds the power pins of a dac benefits from low esr, because digital is fast. This is not music yet, just 1s and 0s being turned into music. So for these positions I use Panasonic SEPF. They have crazy low esr and really high ripple current. I have also tested them in audio positions and they sound transparent and correct. These are very good caps.
 For power supply to opamps I generally like Silmic II because now you are only dealing with voltage swings in the audio frequency and esr is really not the determinate factor. What I like about the Silmics is that they provide great separation of the instruments and, in my opinion, the blackest background. I am only talking a capacitor from + to - on the opamp. It serves as a small reservoir that is sufficient for the opamp to reach its dynamic potential.
 This is not decoupling. Decoupling (for power) is going from + to ground and from - to ground. For that a small 0.1 film cap is sufficient. I have found that a 0.1 or similar small value is not enough to make a difference in the whole audio range when put + to -. A voltage swing in the 10khz range is such a small thing compared to bass which is a relatively huge wave in comparison. Thats why those small caps clean up the very top end but dont really have a bigger effect on the lower end. Nonetheless, the trebble by itself is a big effect.
 I am not familiar with the topology of your board but it does not look like it has output capacitors. In the picture on the first page of this thread Ramachandra recommends a Tonarex for the opamp supply (100uf 50V). I would not put a tonarex anywhere near the opamps. That would be a good spot for a Silmic.
 I am not sure what the function of all the caps behind the opamps are. In the picture it says they are decoupling caps. Does this mean it is going from + and - to ground? If so, put the Panasonic SEPF here. If decoupling here means putting a capacitor in the signal path of the audio to block any DC.. then I would probably put SEPF there too. (I hate caps in the signal path though. But sometimes its unavoidable)
 Also, remember that all caps must burn in and Silmics, no joke, take at least 100 hours. They sound bad, not just neutral but really bad sometimes untill they are burned in and become lovely.
  
 Again, hats off to such a big mod !


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## Foxer

@pelopidas
 Thank you! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But i was inspired by many more other brave people here, who've done much much more than me. @ramachandra , @trodas and the incredible @bichi (who has done intensive work on the Elite Pro), are just a few to mention.
  
 The card mentioned at the start of this thread is one of the "Xtreme" models.
 Mine is an "Elite Pro", this one here:
 : 
 The first 2 rows of 47uF caps (from left to right) are in the signal path between the DACs and OpAmps --4 for each dac-opamp pair. (i replaced all 16 of these with SILMIC II)
 The 3rd row, is for power supply to the analog side of the DACs (1x100uF + 1x47uF for each DAC). (haven't replaced those yet)
 And the 2 lonely 220uF caps in the far-left, are for power supply to the opamps. (i replaced these 2 with SILMIC II)
  
 The OPA1602, doesn't have dual power (V+/V- & GND), it only has V+ & GND (just like the card's original ones)
  
 You said:
 " If decoupling here means putting a capacitor in the signal path of the audio to block any DC.. then I would probably put SEPF there too."
 You would actually put Panasonic SEPF (a polymer cap) on the audio signal path? Aren't those limited to a narrower frequency than the electrolytics?! I know solid polymer should be avoided in signal path (granted, the SEPF are Organic polyner.. but still)
  
 The modifications i did, brought back the listening pleasure on this card, but kinda blurred some of the details. I don't think the Opamps are to blame, so that only leaves the silmics. @bichi for example, ended up using SMD ceramic caps in place of the 16 caps that are in the signal path (from dac to opamp).
 But for the moment, i was thinking of replacing the 2 silmics (that are powering the opamps), with some Panasonic FMs. And if they sound good and restore some detail, maybe do the same with the 3rd row of caps that are powering the DACs.
  
 Now i know you said the silmic II are good for powering analog parts, but to me (and some others) it feels that they rob some detail. 
  
 Also:
 "What I like about the Silmics is that they provide great separation of the instruments and, in my opinion, the blackest background. I am only talking a capacitor from + to - on the opamp. It serves as a small reservoir that is sufficient for the opamp to reach its dynamic potential." 
  
 For me , believe it or not, putting a 10uF silmicII + the 0.15uF wima on the power pins of the opamp, did the exact opposite 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 It DID bring in some bass (which felt a bit dodgy at times), but certainly wasn't worth loosing even more details. So i left only the 0.15uF wima.. which seems to do a good job of restoring some details and acoustics (and i can almost swear that it helped with the bass too.. feels more involved, more rounded and not all over the place)
 Maybe the two 220uF silmics that are already on the board (for all 4 opamps), do a sufficient job.. Maybe putting more of them is just going overboard.. i don't know.. 
  
 Regarding burn-in.. Since i replaced all the caps previously mentioned, they've been run for @ 40 hours.. and tbh, i don't sense any real difference.. (except for maybe some bass improvement)
 The 10uF one has only been run for about 20hours
  
 ---
  
 later edit:
 I also want to recap my PIONEER VSX-D557 amplifier.. and i was thinking to use ELNAs.. but now i'm kind of skeptic..
 Dunno what to use..  Maybe wait for a true 100+ hours of burn-in and see how they turn out..


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## pelopidas

Hey Foxer,
  
 I know this sounds counter intuitive right now but just wait for the full 100 hour minimum burn in on the Silmics. The burn in requirement is very very real. Like many others before me have noted, you cannot really evaluate the sound of silmics before then because the sound can go from cohesive to muddy to dull to all kinds of awful that makes you want to pull them out immediately.  Put some music on and let it play all night for several nights untill you have your 100 hours. Once you are 100+ hours then do a critical listen.
 The same goes for film caps and organic polymers. They take time to burn in, settle, form or whatever people want to call it. I too was skeptical about this before repeated experience proved it to be so.


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## ramachandra

The XtremeMusic with the Elna Tonerex was the first version, the picture could use an update. I completely settled with Silmic II, Cerafine, Nichicon KZ since. If one day their production stop without proper alternative and they become crazy expensive, (like it happen with Black Gate) then I maybe buy Panasonic. There is always some exceptions when one type more suitable for the job than the other, or often the combination of 2-3 give the best result. In the external DACs I'm using, I often add big film capacitors to the electrolytes in the analog PSU. The 0.1uF films are common in the basic designs, and very little what they do for the listener. From 1uF when they really start to make a positive impact, but they often cut back the dynamic of the ELNAs.
 I'm mad for details and I love headphones, despite my best efforts with Amps and speakers, because the degradation is always there. A good source is essential, but the rest of the audio chain is not negligible at all. It's a bit like my PC can run as fast as the slowest part(s) let it. I'm not sure I found the right photos from the VSX-D557 inside, but I wouldn't expect to find it on an audiophile's wishlist. No doubt abut reputation or reliability just the complexity and components. If different capacitors give a better result with this amp maybe not strange under the circumstances. There is one way to find out.


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## Foxer

This is the closest i could find to my pioneer's inside schematic https://link-4share.com/download/QtmZ2B68/pioneer_vsx-d607s_rrv1897_pdf.html 
 It's for the D607s, but it looks identical to mine.. and when i search for mine, all the websites come up with this schematic.. maybe it's a rebrand or something. 
 Your impression or advice?  
  
 In other news; I borrowed a pair of SENNHEISER HD595 headphones from a friend today, and gave a better listen to the Elite Pro..
 And what can i say.. my jaw almost dropped! Immediately i thought to myself: "there's no f-ing way the Audigy 2 is gonna sound this good!"
 I turned on the other computer, pullet out the same song (flac format of course), using the same player & I gave it a listen...... and immediately i got pissed.
 You could probably guess what was the result.
  
 I guess i'll let those elnas burn in properly...


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## ramachandra

That is a correct headphone you got, could be handy if you able to use it while you working on the card. What I recommend is to try to use an audiograde cap for the X-Fi chip, maybe the previous modifiers was right, and really make a difference. Do the rest of the mod, don't stop in half way. I'm certain about the success, because this far nobody complained. The remaining Jamicons or slightly better G-Luxon caps arround the DAC + the crystal is great for: one thing. Friend of mine worked on Audigy cards, he never mentioned they are turned out better than any of the X-Fi cards.
 No point go into the Amp yet, or at all. There are easier or better alternatives.


----------



## Foxer

@ramachandra
 yeah, i agree on your "perspective" of the jamicon & g-luxon caps ))
 I've got my mind set on changing almost (if not, every) cap on the card.
 I still have to settle on what caps i need/want to try for every zone, and also some other parts for some other projects.. so when i'll place the order, i'll place it for everything. But i've been running low on spare time lately.
  
 By the way, upon hearing the moded elite pro; a friend got bent on getting one too, and giving it to me to mod it for him also..
 And he found a really cheap one.. How cheap? FREE cheap 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 It's a slightly different version than mine: it has only one X-RAM chip on the front. None on the back. And it looks to be a 32mb (not 64). Dunno for sure 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But it does have a problem though: the microphone input doesn't work (loud hisssss when enabled even with MIC not connected).
 And if it's switched to "digital out" instead of "MIC in", the hiss goes away, but the music still distorts a bit.
 (Just to be clear, this happens on all analog outputs. Haven't tried on the digital).
  
 Also my original drivers/applications CD doesn't work with it.
 I can only manually install just the driver and make it work.. but the main installer says there is no x-fi present in the system. So i can't install the whole applications/utilities suite.
 Only the package form the CREATIVE website installs without problems.
  
 There's no visible signs of damage on the card; so i was thinking of pulling capacitors and measuring them one by one.. Especially those around the DSP's power supply, and ADC..


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## Foxer

accidental double post
 -----------------------
 deleted


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## z5500 digital

*Ramachandra*, have you tried "Audigy RX" ?
  
It is often recommended.
And even saying that sounds better than the x-fi titanium.
http://forum.ixbt.com/topic.cgi?id=12:56186


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## ramachandra

No I haven't. I'm not surprised if it is because the 600-ohm headphone amplifier. Perhaps more pleasant to listen compared to the Creative's beloved JRC4556 on the front channel. The rest of the components is in a different arrangement but seems identical to Titanium and I would not expect much from those. The characteristic of older main chip or the settings in the driver is maybe another factor.
  
 Still, if an RX show up one day it will certainly not escape my soldering iron.


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## TimHKG

It's a great topic anyhow! However, what I'm going to ask is a bit out of topic. It's not anything related to X-Fi's, but Audigy 2 & Audigy 2 ZS. I'd bought them for more than 10 years and had them modded recently. Since I'll have some AVX 0.1uf 50v and 0.01uf 50v ceramic capacitors, and also WIMA FKP 02 0.001uf 63VDC capacitors several days later, and would like to put them onto the two cards for some more positive effects if it's possible.
  
 In order to get the best effects, can anyone circle on which locations of the cards where those above mentioned AVX & WIMA capacitors should be putting onto? Thanks in advance!


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## ramachandra

Not off topic because this tings are often universal. You can use the ceramic for the main filter cap or on the VDD of the DAC chip, but under 0.1uF is certainly small to experience the benefit. On other locations I suggest to use the films. My experiments not long ago on external DACs suggest the 0.1uF is only the minimum recommended to use. One thing what the circuits minimum need for the stable operation and another how they produce the best sound for the user. If let say you add 1, 2.2 or even 4.7uF film on the DAC's analog power supply cap, you get a clearer high and mid-range based on the capacitance. The 0.1uF only enough to have an effect on the highest frequencies. The films have a more linear frequency response and will have an effect on the dynamic of the Elnas. If you love good sub-bass this may not a good investment, beyond 2.2uF. If the opposite is the goal you may need to go even further than 4.7uF. The cap I'm talking abut is probably a 47uF or more near the DAC chip. Expect similar outcome when apply on the OpAmps' cap(s) or to the voltage regulator.
 You can create hybrids by using Nichicon ES on the ELNAs. They are not as good as the films but smaller in size with slightly different characteristic. The ES is not the top category from Nichicon still NP electrolytes have their special reputation for audio. As I see your cards are not short on Nichicon FG and all the bigger caps Silmic II, so you may do better with the film capacitors.


----------



## Foxer

@ramachandra
  
 Now that i have 2 Elite Pros (one stock and one moded) i did some side-by-side testing and experimentation, and these were the results:
  
 I know that you had some doubts about the main power cap regarding bass.. and here are my findings:
  
 Stock 220uF G-Luxon (esr=0.09 ohms)
 vs.
*1000*uF@6,3v Pana.FC (0.09)+ 100uf@6,3v MURATA Ceramic (0.002) *(edit:1000 not 1500)*
 vs.
 330uF@16v Pana.FM (0.056)
 vs.
 330uF@16v Pana.FM + 100uf@6,3v MURATA Ceramic
  
 Bass: no audible difference
 Clarity: OH YEAH! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 felt no real difference with or without the ceramic.. also felt almost no diff btwn FC & FM .. FM maaaaybe a bit better.
 But i could say that this mod alone made the stock card sound almost as involved/detailed as my modded one... almost.
*(Later Edit:*
 I think there needs to be a balance between ESR & Capacity. Like if they have the same ESR but different capacity, the one with a bigger capacity will charge slower, coz there's more of it to charge at the same rate/resistance.*)* 
  
 I couldn't make the stock card work with the original CD drivers that i was using (still has dead line-in/mic/aux), so i had to use the website ones for both the cards (so it would be fair). What i immediately felt with my card, was a big boost in lower-bass!
  
 Other differences:
 On my fully modded one: music is a bit more detailed (and not blended) ... mids & highs are a bit better.. And my personal favorite: the echos give more information about the room where the instrument is played.
 But you have to pay extreme attention to be able to hear these differences.
  
 other thoughts:
 TBH, i have the sensation that this other card (when with original power cap) sounds a bit better than mine sounded when it was stock.. it just might be the drivers, idk.
  
 One thing's for sure though: doing all the mods and spending so much money, is not for everyone.
 So for someone who wants a quick clean way to improve the card; i suggest trying out different drivers + changing only the main cap (C151 in case of the E.P.) to a Panasonic FM of bigger value (& i see no point in going over 1500uF @ 6,3v-to-16v), and also putting a 0.15uF WIMA mk4 PPFilm (or similar) on the +/- pins of the OpAmps i feel is a good improvement..
  
 -------
  
 In other news:
 I carefully studied the works of the great @bichi himself  And found out which are the caps for the DACs on the E.P.
 The row of 100uf&45uf near the dacs, are:
 For 1st DAC:
 C40=100uf=(FILT+) to GND - Positive Voltage Reference (Output) - Positive reference voltage for the internal
 sampling circuits 
 C63=45uf=Voltage Reference (Input) - Positive voltage reference for internal sampling circuits.
 And upon researching what caps go best for DAC Vref, i found that it needs to be a cap with low VoltageLoss and low esr across a wider band of frequencies.
 An never-used 47uF@16v SILMIC II that i measured, has a small Vloss of 0.8%, and @ 0.50ohms esr..  and from what i know, their esr is more linear across a wider frequency than other caps.. So maybe that's why they are good in that spot.
 (please feel free to add/correct me)
  
 Also i changed C55 - another 47uF@16v CAP - that is responsible for the "Analog V-in" for ALL 4 DACs - with a leftover SILMIC II of the same value.. Didn't notice any audible difference.
 The VDD part of the DAC, doesn't have any electrolytic caps on it; the only electrolytic around there is a 22uf@16v (C154) before the 5v-to-3.3v converter that powers the DAC. And that one i've changed a long time ago to a 100uf Pana FC .. which i now want to change to FM of maybe bigger value.
@bichi changed that to 220uF@25v FM, and the main CAP to a Rubycon MBZ, 1500uf @ 6.3vdc (ESR: 0.026) and i think he tested the card with a scope before/after all power modifications.. so might be a good recipe.
  
 I still have the crackling issue in some games (although reduced), but that's why i still also want to tinker with the power section.


----------



## TimHKG

Ramachandra, thanks for your advices!
  
 Finally, more different kinds of caps arrived today. I'm going to spend some leisure on testing them with the sound cards to see whether they could generate any possible effects.


----------



## Foxer

@TimHKG
 Please be sure to post any results you come across.
 (I've only had experience with what i wrote here in this thread... albeit not a bad experience with this recipe)


----------



## TimHKG

To be frank, I know nothing about it and just put some very small value capacitors randomly onto somewhere of the card for an initial trial and error. Fortunately, the sound's not getting worse and to some extent the highs is a bit more detailed and bright.


----------



## Foxer

I think that the --in games-- crackling issue with my card, is more likely to be because it shares the IRQ with 5 other devices (including the Graphics card), in both WinXP & Win7 :-\
 After disabling some of the shared devices, the issue is more present than ever.. and also computer sounds (i.e. HDD, ram accessing, etc) can be heard in some games.
 I have no way of managing IRQs in BIOS, and only have 1 PCI slot; so i might have to learn to live with this issue..sadly.
  
@TimHKG
 If you decide to keep them, you should really shorten the leads on those capacitors..


----------



## TimHKG

@Foxer
  
 By the way, they're still under testing in ways of different op-amps to harmony with different film capacitors at different locations of the cards.
  
 Yes, I'll cut short the leads when they're settled down. Thanks for your advice anyhow!


----------



## DBX1

Hello.

 I just received an X-Fi Titanium PCIe Card and I am interested in performing the upgrades to this card.  So far what I encountered is that I cannot purchase the following caps going by ramachandras recommendations on the first page:
 Elna Cerafine
 Sanyo OsCon

  
 If Nichicon Caps can be used as an alternate cap for the Elna Cerafines and Sanyo OsCons, what series caps can be recommended as the replacement cap?  If anyone has any of the available caps, would they like to donate the caps I cannot get to get started on my project?

 Thanks!!!


----------



## Foxer

Hi @DBX1!
  
 First things first: If you haven't read the entire thread, i highly suggest you do so! I think that most of your questions will be answered by the conversation that went on here.
  
 My suggestion would be to go for Elna Silmic II (in places where there is analog signal, or power supply to analog sections/chips) if you can't find Cerafines.  Cerafines are out of production as far as i know. 
  
 Also IIRC, Sanyo Oscon is a solid polymer cap. The Oscon series have been taken over by Panasonic, and are still great caps; but not for audio. I have not tried them myself, but all the research that i've done, points to not using solid polymer caps for audio purposes. 
 Myself, i think i will go for Panasonic FM or FR on the rest of the card.
  
 Your biggest problem i think will be to find out what caps have what purpose on your card; as there hasn't been much modding done on the Titanium (coz putting random caps in random places, will very likely NOT give the desired result).
 Also you might need to know at what voltage the OpAmps operate on the card, if you want to change them.
  
 Read the whole thread carefully, and i'll try to answer more of your questions afterwards (if you'll still have any).
  
 Good luck!


----------



## DBX1

Thanks Foxer.

I was under the assumption that Rama had performed the mods to the xfi titanium as it is noted in his pics, which i am prepared to follow. At this point i have read through the first 6 pages and will complete the rest tonight ot tomorrow. For now, this is what i have gathered from reading the posts so far...

Since elna cerafines are out of prodution, i will take your advice, along with what rama noted in the titanium upgrade to go with the elna silmic ii as an alternative. I have experience with nichicons, where my experience has been positive using them. If i were to use them in the audio section, ii would use fine gold or the kz line if it is recommended as an alternative.

I think i will start wit upgrading the decoupling caps, then later the crystal clock, and then the opamps. I plan to purchase the opamps that is labeled in ramas upgrade path in the xfi titanium.

Any thoughts so far at this point?

Thanks!!!!


----------



## Foxer

Your plan seems ok!
 I think you will come by a few more details as you read the remaining pages of the thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 (power filtering caps upgrades are also a "MUST", in my opinion)
  
 My biggest advice tho, would be this: Be mindful of the OpAmps when desoldering them! For lots of people, that was the breaking point of the card; as they ripped off the pads. 
 I would recommend using A LOT of paper masking tape around them, a paper bag on the rest of the card... and *2 soldering irons* at the same time.
 To remove the old OpAmps, join all 4 pins on each side with abundant solder (but don't make a mess). 
 Then use both soldering irons (one in each hand) to simply pick up the OpAmp, when the solder on each side is fluid.
 But before you attempt this, PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE on a dead board. 
 Using this method i remove OpAmps safely in just a few seconds.
 Also as a precaution, unplug the soldering irons right before you use both of them on the card. They can sometimes carry a charge that will go from one iron to the other, and damage components on the card.
 After that, Solder Wick is your best friend for cleaning the pads. Use solder only AFTER you've seated the new Opamp.. To avoid accidents, avoid using metal tools; i use a wooden toothpick to gently press on the OpAmp when soldering it back on (using just 1 soldering iron, of course).
 Gel type FLUX and a good magnifying glass can make the difference between success & disaster


----------



## DBX1

Thanks Foxer for the advice on how to deal with the Solder/Desoldering of OpAmps.  I did read people having difficulty removing the opamps.  Hopefully my solder skills and solder equipment will give me better fortune than some of those who have had undesirable luck when dealing with their removal of opamps.

 Soldering Wick - Check
 Temperature Controlled ESD Soldering Iron - Check
 Magmifying Glass - Check

 Do you have any advice regarding which caps to use for the power filtering caps ?  I want to have a straight answer from those who are experienced with this upgrade rather than for me to just guess and hope.

 I am skilled with a soldering iron, I can read a schematic diagram for parts used - voltage and value of component to be used at locations, but my electronic knowledge is limited.  So if you told me to remove those filter caps, or change the bypass caps, or have a look at the coupling caps (or decoupling caps), I know the lingo, but I would not know what such caps are.  So yes, I do try to find out the secrets are on building a better circuit, but I am not familiar with such how to read on a schematic diagram what those caps are for.

 Just an fyi - I finished upgrading resistors on a line stage stereo preamp - all that is left are the electrolytic caps.  But I have to gather what the caps on the line stage are used for - if they are bypass caps, coupling, or decoupling, so that I can pick the right caps for the best performance.

 But I do know the difference between a film cap, an electrolytic, a polysterenye, tantalum, ceramic caps.  So I am not totally hopeless.  

 So although my skills are limited, I am not totally lost!!!  

 If I can gather enough information, I should be able to place an order for parts with Mouser tomorrow.
  
 Thanks Foxer.


----------



## Foxer

You're welcome  
  
 I've had great results using Panasonic FM (as a power filter cap for the X-Fi processor). If you want, you can also pair it with a "Murata" ceramic SMD cap. That's what i did.
  
 As for the values, i don't know your card.... but as a safe rule of thumb, you can double (or in some cases triple or quadruple) the capacity of the old electrolytic cap.. and the ceramic should be around 1/2 (half) of the old electrolytic. Keep voltages the same as the old one, if you are not sure.
  
 Now, i don't know if the Titanium has a main power filter cap.. but being the same X-Fi chip and all, it still needs 1.25V .. so it will draw it from the 5V pin of the PCIe and use some type of switching power supply chip, to turn that into 1.25V.. with at least a cap in front of the power supply chip, and at least a cap behind it.
  
 When we refer to the "main power cap", we refer to that cap that is after the switching power supply chip; so it's the cap that filters that 1.25V that will go to the X-Fi processor (and in the case of the Elite Pro, it's 220uF @16v)
 In the case of the Elite Pro, there is also a little power cap (22uF@16V), that's before the Switching power supply chip (Ti PS54352), that filters 5V power from the PCI 5V pins.. And i replaced that cap with a 100uF one.. and maybe will replace it again with a 220uF one. That cap assures clean power to not only the Switching PSU chip, but it also goes to other places, like the digital side of the DACS (iirc).
  
 My advice would be to not rush. 
 It took me a few solid months of research before i figured things out. Not to mention how many times i thought that i gathered all the knowledge i needed for the project, only to discover the following week something that completely changed the game.
 Tbh, even now i'm not sure of certain aspects.. but such is life 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 P.S. Don't go over 400C when using the irons on the OpAmps. And don't heat the heck out of them.


----------



## DBX1

Thanks much for your advice Foxer.

 I will look into this and will place an order for some caps, a crystal, and OpAmps.  Hopefully, my results will be as successful as yours.

 I have a question for you in regards of what you posted about the Power Filter Cap - which I will look into to see if my card has it:
 "As for the values, i don't know your card.... but as a safe rule of thumb, you can double (or in some cases triple or quadruple) the capacity of the old electrolytic cap.. and the ceramic should be around 1/2 (half) of the old electrolytic. Keep voltages the same as the old one, if you are not sure."

 I understand what you mention that its OK to double, triple, or quadruple the value of the cap.  But one thing I do when replacing electrolytic caps, I usually double or triple the voltage value as well.  If room to fit the cap is not an issue, should I not be doing this?  I have not seen (or heard) any ill effects when I perform this on components in my stereo system.

 As always, thanks for your input Foxer.


----------



## Foxer

Regarding Capacitor voltages, the opinions are divided..  Some people say that there's no harm in using larger voltage caps, other people avoid doing that because the fact that the larger voltage Cap might loose it's efficiency if it gets a voltage that is too small in comparison to it's "capabilities".
 For me, a good rule for electrolytics is that the cap should be rated at least 50% higher voltage than the circuit's voltage, and not more than 400% (4x). For instance: if you have 3.3V you can safely use a 6.3V Cap. But if you have 5V, you better use a 10V or 16V Cap.. and i would  only go higher if i need better ESR (a higher Voltage or uF Cap has better ESR).. but my beliefe is that some efficiency will be lost the more i will up the voltage. After what percentage will that "efficiency" start to matter? I have no idea..
  
 For the X-Fi chip (that is powered with 1.25V), on my card i experimented replacing the original 220uF@16v Cap, with caps from 1000 to1500uf @6.3V .. And the MURATA Ceramic is 100uF also @ 6.3V. Because 6.3V is already almost 300% (3x) of the 1.25V that will actually go through it. A 16V cap in a 1.25V circuit, to me it just seems stupid. (On the other hand, a ceramic cap, needs to be AT LEAST 2x larger!) 
 CREATIVE used a 16V Cap there, because it was cheaper to use crap caps with larger voltage, in order to obtain good ESR; than to use good quality expensive caps with high ESR at proper voltage for that place. 
 I also tried a combination of Panasonic FM 330uF@16v + Murata 100uF@6.3 Multylayer Ceramic, on another Elite Pro that had no other modifications, and the clarity of the sound was heavily improved! (I think i wrote about it here on this thread). It's believed that if you up the uF on the power cap, you will get better bass.. but i wouldn't go overboard, as it has happened to some people with a TOO LARGE capacitor in that position; the card wouldn't get detected any more when plugged back into the PC... (probably because there wasn't enough power left for the X-Fi chip, after powering the huge cap 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) 
 After all.. every cap should ideally be calculated to properly suit the circuitry.. So because we can't do that, we have to make sensible changes, not extreme ones.  
  
 Personally, on your card i would keep the same voltages.
  
 And if you do decide to use ceramic Caps, be sure to get ones with a good rating, like _*X8R *or *X7R* or *X5R*. Don't go under X5R_


----------



## DBX1

Thanks so much Foxer for the useful information.

 The information you provided helps lay the groundwork for future projects whenever I plan on upgrading caps on a variety of equipment I own.


----------



## Foxer

no prob.


----------



## mihaiil

Hello guys, and thank you again for the thread ramachandra! Could you please help me to find right TCXO? I am very limited and I can only purchase from the catalogue of 'farnell'. Could you take a look and tell me if there is any oscillator that will do the job? Thanks!
 Here is the link to the catalogue:
 https://store.comet.bg/en/CatalogueFarnell/058/Crystals+Oscillators+Resonators/001/Oscillators/002/Temperature+Compensated+%28TCXO%29/#eyJpcHAiOiIxMDAifQ%3D%3D


----------



## Foxer

I'm also interested in this answer! 
  
 P.S. @ramachandra you don't even know how right you were when you said my PIONEER will be next, & i just don't know it yet  )
 Replaced it with a Harman Kardon Avr8500 a few weeks ago... the sound is incomparable!! Thank you for pushing me into this direction


----------



## ramachandra

@mihaiil
  
 No 24.576MHz on the list, you need to try elsewhere. I found this recently on eBay, and one is on the way.
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/291550656712?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 Usually I paid 15-22€ for a TCXO so this is a good price. I was told the 0.1PPM is the ideal choice for the card from the technical point. Perhaps has no advantage compared to 1PPM for the listeners, but good for the consciousness. The original clock is around 50PPM as I remember.
  
  
@Foxer
  
 In those days I meant using the sodering iron, but the main thing you got a better amp and the result.
 (I myself would go for an ultra minimalist audiophile amp, inside from the best components for audio. On/off switch, volume control only, if the source has some kind of tone control. Of course, this may not satisfy most people.)


----------



## mihaiil

Thank you for the answer ramachandra. It seems I can purchase from 'Mouser' too. What do you think about these two, will they do the job?
 $24 (~22Eur) - 0.28ppm it has more than 4 pins(10 to be precise), but I think it will work or not?(datasheet is available on the same page)
 http://www.mouser.bg/ProductDetail/AVX/KT7050A24576KAW33TAD/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMt8oz%2fHeiymAETbjaLuIDbPuRxrOVbWbuA%3d
  
 The other one is just below $10...hmm... same 0.28ppm:
 http://www.mouser.bg/ProductDetail/TXC-Corporation/7N-24576MBP-T/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMt8oz%2fHeiymAJuQj90JDo52N2ODboT2%2fbZ8uzpgjiOoSw%3d%3d


----------



## Foxer

@ramachandra
 I too was a bit skeptical about the "overly complicated" design of the avr8500; but when i studied the service manual, i had the pleasant surprise to find that it also has a direct analog input (for all 5 channels) that COMPLETELY bypasses all the DSP, and shoots the signal straight into the amplifier. Doesn't even have tone control ) And this is the input that i'm using.
 And the best part is that i only paid equivalent to $350usd, it being in pristine condition, including manual and both remotes! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 It was the best deal I could find.


----------



## ramachandra

"COMPLETELY bypasses all the DSP" Then it was the right choice indeed. You won't get the same pure sound from your old amp just by swapping components, too much stuff on the signal path. Even a cheap pot alone butcher the sound, nothing to say about the rest what is usually stuffed in an amplifier.
  
 The datasheets contain no reference circuits to see what is the minimum requirement to make this components work. The 10$ TCXO only have 5 pins connected from the 10 and if you lucky it will work from 3. The wave form is Sine wave not square and probably not an issue because the first TCXO I had seen on an ASUS card was similar SMD type. I'm afraid you need to ask somebody competent or experiment.


----------



## mihaiil

Well, I asked some audio gurus and it seems that they don't know the answer too. But they told me some interesting things like that I need to build a PSU that will feed the oscillator with very stable voltage like this one: http://tentlabs.com/Components/XO/index.html
 And since the oscillator makes mechanical moves inside it's shell, it is a very important to isolate it from environment vibrations as much as I can like this one:
 https://s17.postimg.org/kqk1gtyjx/P1163687.jpg
 And that's how the big boys from Hewlett Packard do it: 
 https://s22.postimg.org/6ym165t2p/Xtal.jpg
 They told me that these mods will give more improvement than changing the oscillator. I'm going to experiment with the cheaper one that I posted earlier and give it a try if it will run. If that oscillator doesn't work, I'm going to buy one from ebay.
  
 Also they told me the output cable of the oscillator must be special purpose cable for transferring Mhz, but I don't know which exactly, maybe some Cat5, Cat6 cable...


----------



## mihaiil

UPDATE: I also recommend to not removing the 'mute' transistors on the front L/R channel. It gives more clear sound indeed, but the bass suffer so much. It become so dry and without punch. I tried to like the sound that way, but that didn't happen, so I put back the SOT-23 transistors.


----------



## here7423

HI RAMA,thanks for you provided these info, I have't yet replace the crystal on my card, want to try the SMD type too, ASUS card used the EPSON's crystal,may be can find the same,but hesitating now, by activating the HPET in PC's BIOS, sense caught different, should be similar with the TCXO I think. Which effects are more obvious? MB or sound card, really want to know, so there is a chance look forward to.


----------



## washere

Hello every1, i know its a old thread but i dont want to make an another thread for xfi cards. I was having problem with my xifi fatal1ty champion so i checked it 3 months ago i guess. I found that ams was dead so i changed it and connect it to bech psu it was ok then i connected to my pc it was ok then light go on then dim slowly. I took off it and used my freeze spray to find short and it was 4382-kqz so i ordered it and it just came. While remove the old one i damaged the pin 34 path which is "aoutb2+". Can anyone help to me to where the 34pin goes?

Thank you so much.


----------



## Foxer

washere said:


> Hello every1, i know its a old thread but i dont want to make an another thread for xfi cards. I was having problem with my xifi fatal1ty champion so i checked it 3 months ago i guess. I found that ams was dead so i changed it and connect it to bech psu it was ok then i connected to my pc it was ok then light go on then dim slowly. I took off it and used my freeze spray to find short and it was 4382-kqz so i ordered it and it just came. While remove the old one i damaged the pin 34 path which is "aoutb2+". Can anyone help to me to where the 34pin goes?
> 
> Thank you so much.



I may be able to help you, if the layout in the damaged area is the same as the Elite Pro. 

Just upload a clear picture with the problem area, and draw on it, for which pin you want me to find the rest of the trace.


----------



## csharp (May 19, 2020)

Does anyone know if it's possible to mod an X-Fi (XtremeMusic or Titanium - have both) to add XLR/balanced microphone input? Found no pins to support it OOTB, and I also wonder why Creative doesn't seem to care, but only for a limited set of external cards.

PS: The PCI X-Fi has both the -12V & +12V wired from the bus (JTAG section), so it could be used for a differential-powered op-amp.

PPS: Although I haven't yet measured, it is possible that these supply voltages are already used for the mic-input jack op-amp, which is an M33078 from TI; maybe it's even possible to rewire the M33078 itself to achieve balanced input. Thoughts, anyone?


----------



## washere

Foxer said:


> I may be able to help you, if the layout in the damaged area is the same as the Elite Pro.
> 
> Just upload a clear picture with the problem area, and draw on it, for which pin you want me to find the rest of the trace.







Wow, thank you so much.I need to know where the pin34 goes. And this is what i made.


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## Foxer

washere said:


> Wow, thank you so much.I need to know where the pin34 goes. And this is what i made.


Oh Jesus, what a mess!.. But it's not unfixable though.. 
Sadly, on the Elite pro, i have 4 individual stereo DACs, instead of the single CS4382.. so I can't help you  
But what I CAN say, is that you should clean the area as best as possible with alcohol, a soft brush, and some cotton swabs.. so that you can see things as best as possible. And then gently try to scrape the black paint off the rest of the broken trace, and probe it with a multimeter (so you can then strap some wires to a solid contact point). 
This is totally fixable.
Best of luck!!


----------



## washere

Foxer said:


> Oh Jesus, what a mess!.. But it's not unfixable though..
> Sadly, on the Elite pro, i have 4 individual stereo DACs, instead of the single CS4382.. so I can't help you
> But what I CAN say, is that you should clean the area as best as possible with alcohol, a soft brush, and some cotton swabs.. so that you can see things as best as possible. And then gently try to scrape the black paint off the rest of the broken trace, and probe it with a multimeter (so you can then strap some wires to a solid contact point).
> This is totally fixable.
> Best of luck!!


Yes, this is because of my cheap heatgun at home. Cant go out to my store so it was the result  Actually i scraped the pcb mask but there is no trace to go that pin which is weird. Some paths are under the IC but even i scraped there, there is nothing. Also i looked to closer pictures from internet couldnt figured it out. It cant be blank because its analog output b2+ and there is a path for b2- . I bought second hand different model of the creative sound card which have cs4382kqz too. I will trace from it. Also someone can help to me here who have the same card i hope  Anyway, thanks for your help, at least you tried. I really appreciated. 
Stay safe!


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## washere (May 23, 2020)

My donor board came, im probing now. Looks like there is no pad as i said before, how can it be possible :S AOutB- is goes to small cap but + goes nowhere ?  Just look all pads also Aoutb4+ dont have pad either. May be its empty.


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## washere

I think, i did it.Tomorrow i'm gonna test it. Fingers crossed.


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