# Silver Plated Copper Wire - How Good?



## wixy

What are peoples opinions on the use of silver plated copper wire in interconnects? Is it just cheap, low quality wire or is it decent?

 I'm interested in purchasing the interconnects below but am a little worried about the quality of sound from them:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/SLCABLES-SILV...QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/SLC-SILVER-TO...QQcmdZViewItem


----------



## soloz2

for the price it's hard to beat a well made SPC cable


----------



## warrior05

I use it often. Sure you can get poor SPC wire but you can get poor copper and silver wire as well. Navships on eBay is terrific. I did an A/B listening test with a pair of K81DJs that I wired with SPC and one that I wired with a spare Headphile silver cable. Yes, I did hear a difference but it was slight. I think people put a bit too much emphasis on cables. Use quality wire and the differences are negligible in my book. Though I do advocate recabling headphones since most stock cables are not very good.


----------



## edstrelow

The price looks good enough to try and see. If you do give us a report.


----------



## Black Stuart

One of the biggest rip-offs in Hi-Fi is cables.

 Making your own I/Cs, power cords could'nt be simpler and saves loads of money. It only gets a bit difficult if you use fine gauge wires and that's down to developing the right construction techniques.

 I use mil. spec. silver plated copper wire for all my cables. This is so cheap via Ebay from the likes of Navships (totally reliable).

 I don't like copper but I have never tried CCC - continuous cast copper.

 I've tried silver wire but sonically prefer silver/plated copper.

 Important questions are: what gauge wire/s to use / weaving, Litz style or something else, what dialectric and of course plugs, again I prefer silver/plated plugs.

 Take a good look at all the various articles available on the net. Have a healthy contempt for all the 'received wisdom' especialy regarding sheilding, which may only have significance if your rig is computer based.

 Buying your US mil. spec. wire from Ebay is so cheap and easy. Buy quality plugs which you can use over and over again.

 So, you can try all kinds of gauges/solid core/stranded etc until you find the sound that suits you and all for virtually pennies.

 Do cables make a difference yes and sometimes big differences, contrary to what some would have you believe and that's the point - believe nothing, except what your own ears tell you


----------



## Old Pa

I've been very happy over the last six or seven years with my LAT International interconnects using multistrand high purity copper that is then dredged in silver and drawn through a die to size. Very smooth and a little faster than copper alone.


----------



## stevenkelby

I'm a believer after directly comparing what mil spec SPC can do to a measly stinking KSC75!


----------



## tbonner1

Quote:


 I use mil. spec. silver plated copper wire for all my cables. 
 

The mil. spec is important as not all silver plated copper is created equal. 

 I used to be in love with the Audio Magic silver plated copper cables that seemed to give me the smoothness of silver with the bass and dynamics of copper.


----------



## lini

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wixy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What are peoples opinions on the use of silver plated copper wire in interconnects? (...)_

 

Standard RG-223 cable works well for line level interconnects.

 Greetings from Munich!

 Manfred / lini


----------



## Happy Camper

I compared copper solid, silver solid and silver coated copper. I liked the silver coated copper best.


----------



## mnamo

I just made a 26awg x 6 silver plated copper mini -mini and don't like the sound of it. Compared to practical devices mini-mini it's brighter but has noticebly less air and smoothness.Maybe it's poor soldering ? because the wire is from navships and It's made of 2 3-litz strand wires.I think I will try some cryo treated copper now..


----------



## applevalleyjoe

MILSPEC silver plated copper wire is the best and its fairly cheap. As BLACKSTUART recommends, buy some different gauge wire and connectors and experiment. You just might like the results!


----------



## zanash

oh dear.....

 the reason silver is used in mil spec cables has nothing to do with conduction. Its to do with joint failure....a silver plated cable prevents metal migration in the solder joint. End of story...

 now the sound of silver plated copper .....

 I stress this is my opinion but many others agree with me !

 silver plated copper seems to take the worst aspects of both copper and silver and combines them throwing out all the good qualities. For me the sound is bright sharp with a rising treble and has an uneven balance across the frequency range. You often see people comment on the sound of silver cables and say how bright and excruciatingly forward they sound.....I bet that if they took a sharp knife and scrathched the conductor they would find that the so called silver cable was actually just copper silver plated....I mean who's going to open up there $500 ic and scratch at the conductors ?

 I had to reterminate a set of $800 "refference" silver ic for a friend ...the web claims solid silver conductors...but low and behold one of them was silver plated copper...... as a case in piont !

 the sound of copper 

 this is warm plump plumby with a noticeable hump in the upper bass and lower mid treble is flat ....this makes copper often sound like its giving more bass ...but it tends to be a one note bass. Don't ever use thick multistrand copper.....this adds "distortion" that can be quite disconcerting once heard 
 its as if the trailing edges of the notes warble....hard to describe almost as if each strand has its own signal and they don't quite integrate back together. 

 the sound of silver

 assuming a reasonable purity ie 925.....this is smoth and buttery the bass is deep and doesn't emphasis any particular freq. The balance of silver cables natural and neutral with great dynamics once you hear a good one ...your hooked !

 other conductors 

 gold is surprisingly good ...warm rich like silver but with added body.
 platinum alloys ....fast clean smooth incredible detail....sublime draws you into the music....but who can afford the $300 for just the wire in a 0.75m ic ? the ic should then cost $4K or more depending on the mark up
 steel...keep away
 chromium...bright brittle
 aluminium.....bugger to solder but surprisingly good sound similar in nature to silver..

 And yes I've built ic using all these materials .....

 An interesting aside if you build identical ic's except for the signal conductor ...its clear that its the metal that creates the different sound...rather than as some people would lead you to believe the construction technique. How do I know.....I've done it!

 Another interesting fact [?].... why does a simple twisted pair of say silver ...sound far better than the identical cable with a braided shield ? haven't we always been told that ic have to be screened ......
 Could it be another hifi myth ? I don't know


----------



## SneakyPelican

With this post you basically make every affordable wire sound bad.. Are there any good combinations? I'm thinking about recabling my Beyerdynamic DT 770's. Thanks


----------



## Maxx134

zanash said:


> oh dear.....
> 
> 
> the reason silver is used in mil spec cables has nothing to do with conduction. Its to do with joint failure....a silver plated cable prevents metal migration in the solder joint. End of story...
> ...



Cany belive this 8yr old post is so relevant For me today...


----------



## zanash

thank you ....yes still relevant today


----------



## AlanU

Sonically I'd prefer using Ohno copper. Audio Sensibility is one of my favourite companies that offers excellent quality product at reasonable prices.
  
 In many cases I find silver to provide a totally different sound to copper. 
  
 If you have an overly warm system I'd consider silver. However if your sonically happy with your system high quality copper should provide excellent detail and retain a neutral to warm sound signature.


----------



## comfortPlox

Is occ silver plated copper any different?


----------



## AlanU

comfortplox said:


> Is occ silver plated copper any different?


 
  
 trust your ears. 
  
 I've found on Headfi that there's a strong rift between believer and non believers in "tweak" cabling.
  
 My wife cares less of my audio hobby. However she can tell from one sound signature to another while I swap cabling. She will describe as "more clarity", "warmer", "sharp", or even "this sounds the best". This is someone who just simply closes her eyes and describes what she hears. She can also say "you didn't change anything" when I try to trick her. I guess this may indicate the resolution of my 2 channel speakers.  She is not one bit interested in audio gear yet her ears can audibly tell the difference. 
  
 What is interesting is that many folks (headfi and audiofile 2 channel) has it's non believers. Many can still hear differences in major component swaps but disregards the SQ change of cabling. I can certainly hear a difference easily in blind tests. Going from my Aural symphonics cappaccino power cord to a diy furutch 3tS20 cable with rhodium ac plugs it's a massive difference in the "meat" or lack of "meat" in the music. My wife will say "what did you do???????" as she listens  because her ears can easily hear the difference and she's not a self proclaimed audiofile.
  
 If you have an overly warm setup or if you own tube gear with heavy overly dark/ warm sound I'd suggest "silver plated copper". Otherwise I'd go copper and if possible Ohno japanese copper.  
  
 Just remember that collectively you'll hear differences. An analogy is 1 dac can sound slightly different between 2 solid state amplifiers. Depending on your power grid if you add an power AC generator/passive power conditioning, isolation transformer you can very likely hear a big difference in SQ. We are listening to "converted electricity from the wall outlet" so if its at a component level (oil caps vs traditional) this makes a difference. If its just transferring electricity or goes through a transducer it will all have some form of SQ change.


----------



## Speedskater

Alan, you might be surprised at how good some wives are at picking up unspoken clues.  The results may be different when following a correct blind test protocol with someone else doing the cable swapping.


----------



## AlanU

speedskater said:


> Alan, you might be surprised at how good some wives are at picking up unspoken clues.  The results may be different when following a correct blind test protocol with someone else doing the cable swapping.


 
 Yes...possibly true. 
  
 However when she can pickup the "no difference in SQ" when I physically remove cables and re insert the same exact ones behind the rack (she cannot see what has been done behind the rack) . This must indicate something. Or possibly she is taking guesses very well. 
  
 This also depends on the resolution of the gear. If I do cable swaps with my 15 yrs old entry level Energy tower speakers this wouldn't demonstrate much of a difference compared to my Totem Earth towers. I find the difference is more pronounced when I listen to my 2 channel vs my headphones with Burson Virtuoso. 
  
 If you've ever tested a grant fidelity PC 1.5 you'll find the power cord to have an extreme crystalline sound and very pronounced.
  
 I wont justify spending money on cabling.  To my ears tweaing is fun an  I have found this hobbyto be very enjoyable.....


----------



## Steve Eddy

speedskater said:


> Alan, you might be surprised at how good some wives are at picking up unspoken clues.  The results may be different when following a correct blind test protocol with someone else doing the cable swapping.




The disinterested wife/girlfriend story is so old it has whiskers.

se


----------



## Steve Eddy

alanu said:


> trust your ears.




What about the brain they're connected to?

se


----------



## comfortPlox

I didn't mean to start an argument. I'm just curious what difference silver plated copper has over a silver or copper cable.
  
 * Please only answer if you believe in cable sound difference.


----------



## AlanU

comfortplox said:


> I didn't mean to start an argument. I'm just curious what difference silver plated copper has over a silver or copper cable.
> 
> * Please only answer if you believe in cable sound difference.


 
 I urge you to try it for fun and exploration.
  
 I am not here to convince you. Bottom line is if you hear a difference ..... that's what counts.
  
 I am not here to judge anyone that is willing to try. Nothing venture, nothing gained. If it costs you some money for exploring it's only money!!
  
 The folks that have extremely high end gear using Bestbuy "Energy/Monster" cables and do not seriously consider Power conditioning will be just as happy as a person that "tunes/tweaks" with modest/high end gear. At the end of the day it's your enjoyment of this audio hobby and most importantly the music.
  
 If your system has enough resolution to take advantage of better cabling...... have fun tweaking  
  
 It's absolutely amazing that there are so many participants in this forum that feel compelled to dictate how wrong people are in "enjoying a hobby". The internet seems to be either a productive means of exchanging information or some use it as a means of displaying their true colours.  I have just as much fun exploding a $4000 tranny at the race track and buy cabling for my 2 channel and headphone rig. My enjoyment needs no justification......
  
 Comfortplox, feel free to PM me anytime for  productive conversation regarding cabling.


----------



## Steve Eddy

alanu said:


> It's absolutely amazing that there are so many participants in this forum that feel compelled to dictate how wrong people are in "enjoying a hobby". The internet seems to be either a productive means of exchanging information or some use it as a means of displaying their true colours.  I have just as much fun exploding a $4000 tranny at the race track and buy cabling for my 2 channel and headphone rig. My enjoyment needs no justification......




Depends on what you're after.

If you're just after enjoyment for its own sake, go with whatever you like.

But if you're after understanding what's actually going on, that's a whole other ballgame. 

It's hard to tell at times. Some (if not most) people seem to be genuinely interested in what's actually going on. 

Basically there are three types. 

There are objectivists, who seek to know what's really going on.

There are subjectivists, who only seek the most enjoyable subjective experience and don't concern themselves with what's really going on.

And then there are those I call "pseudo objectivists" who take a "faith-based" approach and believe that their subjective experiences are an unerring reflection of the objective reality and think that true objectivists are just a bunch of idiots, or "apostates" if you will. 

From his last post, it appears that comfortPlox wishes to join this latter group so I'll say no more.

se


----------



## comfortPlox

^ I think you misunderstood the question. People who agree with the difference say copper adds warmth and bass, silver adds some brightness. The question is what "difference" does silver plated copper make. How does it behave? Does it behave like copper or silver or differently than both? What is the general consensus?
  
 Skeptics would say no difference at all. Well I'm not asking skeptics, which is why I left a note with an asterisk.
  
 Now you could say try it for yourself, but I don't want to buy every single type of cable out there at the moment. Forums are for people to learn.


----------



## AlanU

Steve,
  
 I am objective with my school background in Electronics ( Diploma in electronics ). My ears are subjective because we all have opinions about audio gear/equipment.
  
 Sonically rolling vacuum tube is the same category as "tweaking". Be it the configuration internally, inductance, capacitance, resistance. Every factor adds variables. 
  
 If you build speaker wires from CAT5 cable or run of coarse or fine copper strands with similar AWG they are all conductors of electricity. Will it sound the same? CAT 5 has high inductance a low capacitance. This is where some will say they should sound identical because its "just wires". True - YES. In reality every wire will be a "good" or "better" impedance match between components. This is where you can have different frequency roll off due to wires. 
  
 No harm in exploration because it's a person's choice in how they spend their money. I'm the sort that will not judge in a person's belief. Nor will fall into the shadow's of the internet to self gratify with elitism. As a newbie to this forum I find fantastic knowledge base along with non supportive individuals (audiofiles/headfi) deliberately patronizing someone else's joys of exploration of a hobby......  perhaps not much of  a supportive team player in an enthusiastic audio community.
  
 Buying used cabling with dissatisfaction will not cost much. You can always resell to someone else with different gear on the same buy/sell.
  
 Again....Comfortplox feel free to pm...let your ears be the judge.


----------



## Steve Eddy

comfortplox said:


> Skeptics would say no difference at all. Well I'm not asking skeptics, which is why I left a note with an asterisk.
> 
> Now you could say try it for yourself, but I don't want to buy every single type of cable out there at the moment. Forums are for people to learn.




Learn what exactly? By saying you want to hear nothing from skeptics, it seems you mean you have no interest in knowing what's actually going on.

se


----------



## Steve Eddy

alanu said:


> I am objective with my school background in Electronics ( Diploma in electronics ). My ears are subjective because we all have opinions about audio gear/equipment.




Yes. But it's that subjectivity, at least on its own, that won't lead one to any meaningful understanding regarding the objective nature of things. Which is why I say if you want to be subjective, then be subjective and don't try and use that to explain things on the objective side of the street.




> Sonically rolling vacuum tube is the same category as "tweaking". Be it the configuration internally, inductance, capacitance, resistance. Every factor adds variables.




Sure. But those variables aren't always meaningful with regard to what we can actually hear. Just because some variable changes by some small amount doesn't mean it will actually be audible to human beings.




> If you build speaker wires from CAT5 cable or run of coarse or fine copper strands with similar AWG they are all conductors of electricity. Will it sound the same? CAT 5 has high inductance a low capacitance. This is where some will say they should sound identical because its "just wires". True - YES. In reality every wire will be a "good" or "better" impedance match between components. This is where you can have different frequency roll off due to wires.




Sure. But this is stuff that's been well known for over a century. No one has ever said you can't design a speaker cable or interconnect so incompetently that it can't make an audible difference. Only that it's trivially easy to design one that doesn't without resorting to any exotic materials. 




> No harm in exploration because it's a person's choice in how they spend their money. I'm the sort that will not judge in a person's belief. Nor will fall into the shadow's of the internet to self gratify with elitism.




Again, it all depends on what one is looking for. If someone is actually trying to understand what's actually going on, it's not doing them any favors to tell them that silver is audibly different from copper.




> As a newbie to this forum I find fantastic knowledge base along with non supportive individuals (audiofiles/headfi) deliberately patronizing someone else's joys of exploration of a hobby......  perhaps not much of  a supportive team player in an enthusiastic audio community.




Yet again, it depends on what that person is looking for. In comfortPlox's case, he's made it clear that he has no desire in understanding what's actually going on. So he's all yours. I have nothing to offer him.

se


----------



## Speedskater

alanu said:


> .......................................................... If you build speaker wires from CAT5 cable or run of coarse or fine copper strands with similar AWG they are all conductors of electricity. Will it sound the same? CAT 5 has high inductance a low capacitance. This is where some will say they should sound identical because its "just wires". True - YES. In reality every wire will be a "good" or "better" impedance match between components. This is where you can have different frequency roll off due to wires.
> ..........................................................


 
 Actually if you bundle several Cat5 cables together, then connect all the stripes to one terminal & the solids to the other. The cable will have very low inductance and high capacitance.
 The low inductance may increase treble response with some speakers. (Apogee, M/L)
 The high capacitance may make some legacy & boutique amplifiers unhappy.


----------



## Pulsing Python

Maxx134 said:


> Cany belive this 8yr old post is so relevant For me today...


me either, another six years after you


----------



## Maxx134 (Mar 21, 2021)

Pulsing Python said:


> me either, another six years after you


Actually even more so now.
I have discovered some preferences that work for me.

Silver plated actually has good attributes, but for me, only in low level circuits, like internal wiring within an amp (not IC circuits, as not tried).
line in level maximum.

For larger signal, like headphones cables, the silver plated always had an exited, but confused or fatigued listening over time.

Yet the solution for silver plated, was the super flat and high surface ratio-to-depth wire works best (wire world). In effect forcing the signal to stay on the surface.
Not to mention the squared shaped corners of the strands for any magnetic effects.
I also tested this theory with similar sized cat7 cables, and the curved conductors were not optimal as they were round not flat like the wire world.
So I proved this to myself, that yes shape made the difference.
Buying "foil" shaped wire was closest to this ideal.
I was going to get this cable for an internal wiring project:
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/wire/duelund-silver-foil-silk-oil-wire-version1.html
As it is a flat "foil" type.


But I'm sure I can find cheaper.

Otherwise, pure  silver was always best, but the fancy wiring that headphone cables always turn out to be mumbo jumbo and worse, the more complicated they were.
Insulation plays a huge role in the wire interactions of complex braided designs of headphones cables.
I have also heard and compared many expensive silver cables, and some actually masked or changed the sound (!).
It was more of a "perceptual" difference, not "tonal".. top end clarity was the easiest focus of difference.

So no, complex braiding didn't work for me.


So that's the tricks I found with experience.
Good quality copper is always the safest "expense".

I also agree with that poster I quoted before.
Experience only supplemented it.


----------



## Maxx134 (Mar 21, 2021)

I updated my post. Again.


----------



## Pulsing Python

Maxx134 said:


> Actually even more so now.
> I have discovered some preferences that work for me.
> 
> Silver plated actually has good attributes, but for me, only in low level circuits, like internal wiring within an amp (not IC circuits, as not tried).
> ...


that was a very interesting read, thankyou for sharing  I decided to go pure copper in the end, I hope to try silver one day...


----------

