# New tube amp: the Cayin HA-1A MK2



## project86

I've already discussed the Cayin iDAC-6 DAC and matching iHA-6 solid state amp around here. And I gave them both a thorough review over at InnerFidelity not too long ago. To sum it up - versatile DAC and very neutral, powerful amp, both with excellent build quality and competitive pricing. Along with their fairly recent portable devices - the C5 amp, the N5 and N6 DAP, etc - Cayin is looking rather_ _impressive in the personal audio segment.
 
Now to switch gears a bit. Cayin has another amp on deck, something completely different from the iHA-6. And as much as I love their solid state offering, this one might actually be the more significant release in some ways. The amp in question is totally new yet vintage at the same time.
 
Confused? Don't be. The amp I'm discussing is the HA-1A MK2, which is, as the name suggests, a sequel to the original HA-1A from about a decade ago. Search for HA-1A discussion on HeadFi and you'll find all sorts of praise for the original model, dating back about a decade or so. The form factor remains the same but this thing is new from the ground up in all other respects. And I'm _totally _hooked on it. 
 
I don't want to gush too much - let's save that for my upcoming review which should go live soon over at Part Time Audiophile. I've submitted already and I'm not sure how many other articles the editor has on deck to post prior, but I'll update here when it's up and running. Short version: the HA-1A mkII is a spectacularly "tweakable" tube amp. By that, I mean it takes on completely different characteristics based on whatever tube complement is used - more so than the majority of tube amps I've experienced. That opens the door for nearly endless variation... a quick, detailed sound? Warm and smooth? Neutral with liquid midrange? The HA-1A MK2 can any and all of those given the right tubes. No matter which experience you choose, the HA-1A MK2 is an excellent performer. The one "weakness" involved is the lack of ultimate resolution as found in uber-amps from Eddie Current etc. Not that I would expect a $999 amp like this to match, in every single aspect, those models which go for 2-7 times the price. Still, I don't recall hearing a Woo Audio amp I'd choose over this (to name just one example), regardless of price. And I've heard most of them. The Woo amps are stunning in a classic sort of way, very different from the modern lines and non-exposed tubes of the Cayin, but for pure SQ I don't think it's much of a contest imho. 
 
This thread is to get the word out - the Cayin portable stuff is quite popular these days, and the i-series DAC/amp is picking up steam, but now there's another entry in the desktop landscape. Cayin is very well known in other regions of the world so perhaps there are even some others who already own the HA-1A MK2 and can share some impressions. 
 
And now, bring on the eye candy!


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## project86

Btw hope Andy Kong (of Cayin) doesn't mind, but I'm reposting this pic of his system from one of the other threads.... so many goodies to choose from. The Cayin iDAC-6 feeding a neutral iHA-6 and a more musical HA-1A MK2 is a killer combo!


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## Andykong

I was wandering where did I see this system before? Looks very similar to my system. 

Wait a minute, this is my system   

Just arrive at LA and get over my jet lag, so pardon me for not in a very good shape when I jump onboard HeadFi forum tonight. 

Want to thank John for reviewing our HA-1Amk2, we are flattered once again by his strong support. I am sure the review will be very informative and tells you everything you need to know about the tube headphone amplifier, so I am looking forward to check out his full review too. 

Some background story about the original HA-1A which was a small powered speaker amplifier with pre-amp and headphone output launched back in 2005. It was reviewed by Sam Tellig & Wes Phillips (Stereophile, Vol.29 Nos.6 & 11, June & November 2006), primilarly as a headphone amplifier, and was listed on Stereophile Recommended Component (Class B) till 2011. I have extracted the description from Stereophile recommended components for your reference:


> While first and foremost a headphone amplifier, the HA-1A can also serve as a line-stage preamp with a single pair of inputs, or as a fl ea-watt integrated tube amp offering 1.2Wpc in single-ended triode mode or 2.2W in ultralinear operation. The Cayin provided the SET experience, sounding immediate, intimate, and alive while expanding the soundstage to float beyond the listener’s headspace. "*The HA-1A may be the best thing that ever happened to headphones,*" raved ST, though he finally decides that high Class B is a where the Cayin rightfully belongs. WP compared the HA-1A to HeadRoom’s Desktop/Home. While the Cayin provided a tube three-dimensionality that the HeadRoom lacked, it couldn’t match the Home’s bottom-end definition. Compared with the Vincent KHV-1pre, the Cayin offered greater warmth and three-dimensionality, said WP. (Vol.29 Nos.6 & 11, Vol.31 No.11 WWW)




The HA-1A is certainly part of the proud history of Cayin. With its unique form factor and innovative circuit layout, it has been one of the long term best sellers in Cayin’s line up. Our Lead Product Engineer Dehai CHEN, who designed the HA-1A originally, decides to upgrade his original work after 10 years of hard learning. He keep the form factor but redesigned everything else from the ground up, give up the speaker output and puts Headphone output as his primary objective when he revives the classic. 

The most interesting part is, Cayin will demo the HA-1Amk2 at the CanJam RMAF, and our Lead Product Engineer Dehai CHEN will attend the event as well, so if you are interested in checking out tube headphone amplifier and will be in the Denver area this coming weekend, drop by our booth in RMAF and talk to the man behind the HA-1A story, I am sure this will be an interesting gathering.


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## grizzlybeast

Nice. Would love to see the review. I wonder how it compares to my TH2. It looks gorgeous.


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## soundaware

project86 said:


> Btw hope Andy Kong (of Cayin) doesn't mind, but I'm reposting this pic of his system from one of the other threads.... so many goodies to choose from. The Cayin iDAC-6 feeding a neutral iHA-6 and a more musical HA-1A MK2 is a killer combo!


 
 Is the centre black our D100Pro? a desktop digital transport system.
 That's great!


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## Andykong

soundaware said:


> Is the centre black our D100Pro? a desktop digital transport system.
> That's great!




Yes, this is 2014 version of D100Pro Deluxe, and I have been using it for quite a while. I have purchased an external clock upgrade (the little metal box above the D100Pro and below our iHA-6 headphone amplifier) before your Femto clock upgrade is available. I wish I have waited for your Femto clock upgrade as the extra pair of clock cable to the external clock is making life a bit difficult to work with.

I have posted my experience in selecting D100Pro Deluxe as my network player back in 2015.
https://www.post76.com/x2/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=217315&extra=&page=3


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## lugnut

I have reached out to numerous US Cayin Dealers in the last 4 or 5 months on buying the new Cayin headphone amp & dac. I have mostly not received any response from them, to, not going to carry them, to, no way ! I don't know what is up with US Cayin dealers & headphone equipment, but hopefully this new tube amp will spark a little fire under their as* !


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## Andykong

lugnut said:


> I have reached out to numerous US Cayin Dealers in the last 4 or 5 months on buying the new Cayin headphone amp & dac. I have mostly not received any response from them, to, not going to carry them, to, no way ! I don't know what is up with US Cayin dealers & headphone equipment, but hopefully this new tube amp will spark a little fire under their as* !




If you are in US region, please contact MusicTeck for Cayin portable/headfi products, they should have stock the complete series right now.

https://shop.musicteck.com/collections/cayin


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## project86

andykong said:


> Yes, this is 2014 version of D100Pro Deluxe, and I have been using it for quite a while. I have purchased an* external clock upgrade (the little metal box above the D100Pro *and below our iHA-6 headphone amplifier) before your Femto clock upgrade is available. I wish I have waited for your Femto clock upgrade as the extra pair of clock cable to the external clock is making life a bit difficult to work with.
> 
> I have posted my experience in selecting D100Pro Deluxe as my network player back in 2015.
> https://www.post76.com/x2/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=217315&extra=&page=3


 
  
  
 I was wondering what that box was. Sounds pretty nice!


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## spkalka

Gorgeous retro design!


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## grizzlybeast

spkalka said:


> Gorgeous retro design!


 
 I agree


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## gr8soundz

project86 said:


> I don't want to gush too much - let's save that for my upcoming review which should go live soon over at Part Time Audiophile. I've submitted already and I'm not sure how many other articles the editor has on deck to post prior, but I'll update here when it's up and running.


 
  
 Any idea when they will get around to actually posting the review?


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## project86

gr8soundz said:


> Any idea when they will get around to actually posting the review?


 
  
 Not sure... it's in the queue but I don't know the specifics. Feel free to go HERE and shoot the editor a request. Demand to Cayin article go live ASAP! Or however you want to word it. Let him know the interest is there and perhaps it will bump the other stuff in line ahead of it (if there even is anything ahead of it, I don't really know).
  
 If several people do this it couldn't hurt though...


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## gr8soundz

Message (to editor) sent.


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## gr8soundz

project86 said:


> Not sure... it's in the queue but I don't know the specifics. Feel free to go HERE and shoot the editor a request. Demand to Cayin article go live ASAP! Or however you want to word it. Let him know the interest is there and perhaps it will bump the other stuff in line ahead of it (if there even is anything ahead of it, I don't really know).
> 
> If several people do this it couldn't hurt though...


 
  
 Just got a reply. That was quick by comparison.
  
 As to why the review isn't posted, he says it's "Just timing."
  
 Fair enough but I did print magazine editing some years ago and we'd be on to another issue after 3 weeks time. Can't imagine why an electronic review takes that long to edit and publish. After all, speed of information delivery was what killed most print media over the past decade or two.


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## grizzlybeast

Cant wait to read up on this amp. 
  
 Right now seems prime time with there being  a lot of good designs to choose from no matter what price range you 
 are in. 
  
 I wish I could compare this to my TH2. 
  
 As it is I will get to compare my iha6 to the ican pro


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## gr8soundz

Same here. Been waiting to order a TOTL (for me) amp but can only choose one.
  
 Looking at the Cayin as well as the Milo, MicroZotl2, and a few others. Haven't seen any gushing reviews for the iCan Pro and still waiting for reviews of the Milo but early impressions look good.


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## Andykong

I am looking forward to John's review as well.

We have a brief HA-1Amk2 review in a printed audio magazine in Hong Kong this month.


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## gr8soundz

So a print magazine review is physically available before an online review gets posted......
  
 Any chance we can get a (translated) copy of your review posted here?


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## gr8soundz

Now I'm concerned that reviews aren't being posted because (perhaps) the amp isn't so great.


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## project86

My review is extremely positive - it's the most fun I've had with a piece of gear in quite some time. Tube rolling is the name of the game with this amp.
  
 I can't speak for other review sites but Part Time Audiophile is in the midst of finishing up show coverage, which really slows down the regular review postings. It's not an ideal situation but the editor does it Part Time (hence the name) and can't always get everything up as quickly as we might like.
  
 But generally speaking I actually think I like the HA-1A MK2 more than the iHA-6, at least on some ways. iHA-6 is the quintessential Solid State amp - clean, neutral, super powerful, and runs just about any headphone well. HA-1A MK2 is not as technically satisfying, nor is it as powerful, but with the right tubes can sound so rich and dynamically alive in the way that tube amps are known for. But it's VERY dependent upon tube choice so you can go different directions with it as needed.


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## gr8soundz

project86 said:


> My review is extremely positive - it's the most fun I've had with a piece of gear in quite some time. Tube rolling is the name of the game with this amp.
> 
> But generally speaking I actually think I like the HA-1A MK2 more than the iHA-6, at least on some ways. iHA-6 is the quintessential Solid State amp - clean, neutral, super powerful, and runs just about any headphone well. HA-1A MK2 is not as technically satisfying, nor is it as powerful, but with the right tubes can sound so rich and dynamically alive in the way that tube amps are known for. But it's VERY dependent upon tube choice so you can go different directions with it as needed.


 
  
 Any chance you could post the text of the review (or perhaps a PM)? I'm guessing your under commitment but had to ask anyway. Don't think PTA.com will post it anytime soon; its been on their what's next list since Sept 9.
  
 If not, can you tell me if the amp has a lot of noise/hiss with low impedance headphones? I know it has several impedance settings but specs show a full 1% THD which concerns me.
  
 I like the look and power specs of the amp though and plan to stick with tubes (or hybrids). I'm in desperate need of a better amp (using a Schiit Vali 1) and have been waiting to press the order button on the Cayin for almost a week now. But I may end up with something else since I barely know what I'd be ordering.


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## project86

Bottom line, the amp is _very_ tube dependent. It can change signature in drastic ways with tube swaps, so you can tailor the sound to your liking or to fit your source/headphones. It will never quite get the transparency of an Eddie Current type uber-amp but at $999 I wouldn't expect it to. 
  
 I don't get any noise with headphones save for IEMs which aren't the focus here anyway. Grados are fine though, Audio Technica, VMODA.... trying to think of any other sensitive headphones I have. The Sony MDR-1A is pretty sensitive and it works fine too. But the best sound on amps like this tends to be higher impedance cans as well as planar models.
  
 I realize it's kind of a blind buy at this stage, until more feedback shows up. Which I think will eventually happen. The original HA-1A had a good following for many years and this is by the same designer so I think it's a safe bet. However you may not want to be the early adopter until more reviews start popping up. I understand.


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## sergemur

project86 said:


> Bottom line, the amp is _very_ tube dependent. It can change signature in drastic ways with tube swaps, so you can tailor the sound to your liking or to fit your source/headphones. It will never quite get the transparency of an Eddie Current type uber-amp but at $999 I wouldn't expect it to.
> 
> I don't get any noise with headphones save for IEMs which aren't the focus here anyway. Grados are fine though, Audio Technica, VMODA.... trying to think of any other sensitive ......




How would you compare it to Icon Audio HP8 mk2 and La Figaro 339 with TH800S and Beyer T1? Thanks!


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## project86

I only have T1 and HD800 here, no HD800S yet. And I've never heard the La Figaro 339. I owned the old Darkvoice 339SE for quite some time, but I don't know how that compares. 
  
 Having said that, I think the HA-1A MK2 is more versatile than the Icon. It's amazingly variable based on tube choice though, so I can make the Cayin sound pretty similar to the Icon, or vastly different depending on the glass used. 
  
 Icon is a beautiful sounding amp though, no doubt. Tough choice there. It does respond well to tube upgrades but doesn't end up sounding completely different as the Cayin does. Icon changed the HP8 since I heard it though, adding the big copper piece on top and changing a few other things around - along with a price increase. So I don't know if there were some audible improvements as part of the deal.
  
 Both are good choices, hard to say which is best.


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## gr8soundz

project86 said:


> Bottom line, the amp is _very_ tube dependent. It can change signature in drastic ways with tube swaps, so you can tailor the sound to your liking or to fit your source/headphones. It will never quite get the transparency of an Eddie Current type uber-amp but at $999 I wouldn't expect it to.
> 
> I don't get any noise with headphones save for IEMs which aren't the focus here anyway. Grados are fine though, Audio Technica, VMODA.... trying to think of any other sensitive headphones I have. The Sony MDR-1A is pretty sensitive and it works fine too. But the best sound on amps like this tends to be higher impedance cans as well as planar models.
> 
> I realize it's kind of a blind buy at this stage, until more feedback shows up. Which I think will eventually happen. The original HA-1A had a good following for many years and this is by the same designer so I think it's a safe bet. However you may not want to be the early adopter until more reviews start popping up. I understand.


 
  
 Thanks for the info.
  
 Would I need to change all 5 tubes or are only 2 tubes used for output?


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## project86

There's a pair of input tubes, a pair of driver tubes, and then the single PSU regulator tube.
  
 First step is to replace the Cayin branded input tubes as that makes the largest improvement. Even spending a little on modest tubes is a big deal. 
  
 Then comes output tubes which have a big impact as well, but the stock selection of EH tubes is not bad at all. You can stick with them and be happy with solid performance, until down the road when you want to mess with it further.
  
 Lastly the regulator tube - Cayin ships a NOS Tung Sol tube and I didn't mess with it. 12DT5 is not a common tube and they say their choice is already excellent so I didn't bother.
  
  
  
 So bottom line: you can spend $25 to start and be good to go for a while. Or you can spend hundred and replace 4 out of the 5 tubes. Whatever works for you.


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## wadi

project86 said:


> There's a pair of input tubes, a pair of driver tubes, and then the single PSU regulator tube.
> 
> First step is to replace the Cayin branded input tubes as that makes the largest improvement. Even spending a little on modest tubes is a big deal.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Would you prefer this over iha-6 for planars and high impedance Sennheisers?


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## gr8soundz

Finally ordered the Cayin. Hope it sounds as good as it looks.
  
 I'm less concerned with appearances but at least the looks parallel the price. Also, from the couple of blurry pics I could find, the internals appear to be as well designed as the original.
  
 Will post impressions once it arrives.


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## gr8soundz

project86 said:


> There's a pair of input tubes, a pair of driver tubes, and then the single PSU regulator tube.
> 
> First step is to replace the Cayin branded input tubes as that makes the largest improvement. Even spending a little on modest tubes is a big deal.
> 
> ...


 
  
 So the two 12AU7 are the input tubes (sometimes referred to as ECC82 or E82CC)? Correct me if this is wrong.
  
 Searched online but can't confirm: will a matched pair of 6922 (E88CC or ECC88) tubes work as replacements for them?


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## project86

Yes, 12AU7 is the input or preamp tube stage.
  
 While you can physically fit a 6922 in place of a 12AU7, I wouldn't recommend it. They have differences which in most amps will lead to sub-par performance or even flat out failure. Exceptions exist but I don't know if the Cayin amp is one of them, and I wouldn't take the chance.


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## Andykong

gr8soundz said:


> So the two 12AU7 are the input tubes (sometimes referred to as ECC82 or E82CC)? Correct me if this is wrong.
> 
> Searched online but can't confirm: will a matched pair of 6922 (E88CC or ECC88) tubes work as replacements for them?







project86 said:


> Yes, 12AU7 is the input or preamp tube stage.
> 
> While you can physically fit a 6922 in place of a 12AU7, I wouldn't recommend it. They have differences which in most amps will lead to sub-par performance or even flat out failure. Exceptions exist but I don't know if the Cayin amp is one of them, and I wouldn't take the chance.




Please do not use 6922 as input tubes of HA-1Amk2, they are not direct replacement and cannot be used in our tube headphone amplifier without certain level of modification.


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## gr8soundz

I won't be rolling the tubes on the amp too soon. First want to hear how it sounds stock which means many hours of burn-in.
  
 Only asked since I'm familiar with the sound signature of a particular set of 6922s. The 12AU7s are new to me so I'll need to research which are most recommended. They appear to be fairly inexpensive but I'm trying to avoid ending up with a giant showcase of spare valves.


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## abvolt

very tempted to get one of these for my other place also really love it's look..


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## MisterPC

I wonder how the tubes are prevented from getting everything around them hot.


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## project86

misterpc said:


> I wonder how the tubes are prevented from getting everything around them hot.


 
  
 Good question. There's a few things at play here:
  
 1) There's significant ventilation on the top panel above the tubes, which seems to be effective.
  
 2) I was initially worried about the wood on the sides but there's actually a layer of metal underneath the wood portion. The wood itself gets only slightly warm, not enough to where I think it would be a problem. The metal structure underneath feels like it soaks up a good amount of heat.
  
 3) The area where the tubes are located is fairly well separated from other components. There's several inches between the tubes and the nearest capacitors. 
  
 4) There's also a mirror-finish metal piece isolating the tube section.  So not only is there distance between the tubes and those capacitors, but also a metal wall. 
  
 The original HA-1A had a similar design and I don't think there were any reliability issues there.


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## gr8soundz

One of the reasons I went ahead with the mk2 was because of how everything appears to be sectioned off internally. Really clean looking design.
  
 I'll know for sure in a couple of days but (in pics) I thought I saw several horizontal vent slots along the wooden sides. Good to know there's metal underneath them though.
  
 Btw, is the wood removable so the sides can be all metal like the original amp?


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## project86

No the wood is attached to the metal "shell" underneath. There's no separating them.
  
 I had a hard time removing the outer case at first. As with many enclosures or covers, once you figure out the right way to angle as you pull, it's not so hard. I was really worried it would be super delicate but it seems pretty tough. Still not as easy as swapping tubes on a more "traditional" open-tube design though.


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## gr8soundz

project86 said:


> I had a hard time removing the outer case at first. As with many enclosures or covers, once you figure out the right way to angle as you pull, it's not so hard. I was really worried it would be super delicate but it seems pretty tough. Still *not as easy as swapping tubes on a more "traditional" open-tube design though.  *


 
  
 That's another reason I ordered the mk2. I'm not much of a tube roller (yet) and shy away from exposed tubes. No concerns about accidentally hitting them or being burned because they're all enclosed. I know most tubes are tougher than they look though.


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## gr8soundz

Received the mk2 yesterday. All around, a very impressive amp so far. Will post impressions soon but thinking I may do my first full review (on head-fi at least) to help others who want more complete details (as best I can provide). Lord knows we need more info out there about this amp; (as of today, PTA is still posting stuff from RMAF......... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ).


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## abvolt

gr8soundz said:


> Received the mk2 yesterday. All around, a very impressive amp so far. Will post impressions soon but thinking I may do my first full review (on head-fi at least) to help others who want more complete details (as best I can provide). Lord knows we need more info out there about this amp; (as of today, PTA is still posting stuff from RMAF.........
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 cool, include some pics if you would & congrats on your new amp..


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## gr8soundz

Thanks. Still listening and burning it in a bit (maybe 10-12 hours so far; giving tubes a long rest between sessions; rather not keep them running 24/7).
  
 The sound is impressive but I'll need more time to properly describe further details. More to come......
  
 I will say this though: Build quality is exceptional.
  
 Here's a quick (rough) pic with the Vali on top for size reference.


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## gr8soundz

Here's a few listening impressions after about 45 hours burn-in (trying to give the amp 100-200 hours before making any final conclusions):
  
 The mk2 sounds more neutral than I expected. Closer to a laid-back hybrid with a ton of power rather than an all-out euphonic tube amp. It does have that smoother, fuller sound with a (very) beefy low-end, extra-wide soundstage, and an overall hint of warmth. Vocals sound intoxicating and instruments hit with tons of impact yet the sound is never fatiguing.
  
 At times the Cayin might be too powerful. I rarely get past 9 o'clock on the volume dial before things get too loud. There is some hiss even with my 600 ohm T1.2 on all but the lowest impedance setting but its faint and doesn't really intrude on the music.
  
 Obviously I'm still on the stock tubes. With such a (relatively) neutral sound, I don't doubt that the amp's character changes with different tubes (just as @project86 mentioned). Guess I'll be seeking out some 12AU7s that might run quieter, further widen the soundstage (to feed my addiction), and add a bit more musicality. I hear the Mullards and RCA Clear Tops are good candidates.


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## gr8soundz

Turns out the hiss I was hearing was caused by a defect.
  
 I'll be shipping the mk2 back and am currently in communication with the dealer and manufacturer.


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## project86

I must have missed your initial post about hiss - you definitely should not have any using the 600 ohm T1. Glad to hear the dealer is taking care of you, as they should.


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## abvolt

gr8soundz said:


> Turns out the hiss I was hearing was caused by a defect.
> 
> I'll be shipping the mk2 back and am currently in communication with the dealer and manufacturer.


 
 If I might ask what head amp did your mk2 replace & maybe a little comparison of the two amps thanks..Enjoy


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## gr8soundz

abvolt said:


> If I might ask what head amp did your mk2 replace & maybe a little comparison of the two amps thanks..Enjoy


 
  
 I'm back to my Schiit Vali (for now) after returning the mk2.
  
 Not really fair to compare them since they're both on very opposite ends ($100 vs $1K; hybrid vs full tube) and because I had some out-of-spec hiss on the Cayin.
  
 All I can say is the mk2 still outperformed the Vali in just about every area. But the difference was not 10x better as prices suggest.
  
 I still think the Vali punches _way_ above its weight and I'm not getting rid of mine no matter what amp I get next.


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## NightPhotograph

How does it compare to Crack? I like everything about Crack but its narrow sound stage.


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## abvolt

gr8soundz said:


> I'm back to my Schiit Vali (for now) after returning the mk2.
> 
> Not really fair to compare them since they're both on very opposite ends ($100 vs $1K; hybrid vs full tube) and because I had some out-of-spec hiss on the Cayin.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks dude let us know what happens with your replacement amp. Really want one of these amps just need a little more reviews to decide first..


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## wadi

project86 said:


> I must have missed your initial post about hiss - you definitely should not have any using the 600 ohm T1. Glad to hear the dealer is taking care of you, as they should.


 
  
 Did you have any background noise issues with low/high impedance headphones?


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## Kozic

I'm thinking of picking up one of the HA-1A MK2 but the ones I find are the 220 volt. I see the photos of the back there is a volt switch that is set on the 230 volts is the other setting for 115 volts or do I need to look for a U.S. model? Before I get it shipped for china I would like to make sure.
 Thanks


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## gr8soundz

kozic said:


> I'm thinking of picking up one of the HA-1A MK2 but the ones I find are the 220 volt. I see the photos of the back there is a volt switch that is set on the 230 volts is the other setting for 115 volts or do I need to look for a U.S. model? Before I get it shipped for china I would like to make sure.
> Thanks


 
  
 Expected mine to come the switch as well but the U.S. version I got was fixed at 120V and no visible switch. Got it through Musicteck in NJ so not sure if international versions have the voltage switch showing in all the pics.
  
 Suggest emailing seller before buying and ask for pic of the rear amp. Also recommend confirming their return policy (you can see my adventure in the previous pages).


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## Kozic

gr8soundz said:


> Expected mine to come the switch as well but the U.S. version I got was fixed at 120V and no visible switch. Got it through Musicteck in NJ so not sure if international versions have the voltage switch showing in all the pics.
> 
> Suggest emailing seller before buying and ask for pic of the rear amp. Also recommend confirming their return policy (you can see my adventure in the previous pages).


Thanks for the info it's helpful. Edit I fond musicteck I'll check them out.


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## Andykong

kozic said:


> I'm thinking of picking up one of the HA-1A MK2 but the ones I find are the 220 volt. I see the photos of the back there is a volt switch that is set on the 230 volts is the other setting for 115 volts or do I need to look for a U.S. model? Before I get it shipped for china I would like to make sure.
> Thanks




The production run of HA-1Amk2 does not have a voltage switch on it. Only the early version has the voltage switch and we only sold a few of those in Mainland China market. We have replaced all our desktop equipment with fixed voltage design in order to fulfill the latest electrical safety requirement in Mainland China. This has affected our production flexibility to certain extend, but we have no option but to follow the recommendations.

For this reason, I do not recommend you to buy HA-1Amk2 from China/Hong Kong (i.e., 230volt version) and mod the power supply to 115v for US usage.


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## Kozic

andykong said:


> The production run of HA-1Amk2 does not have a voltage switch on it. Only the early version has the voltage switch and we only sold a few of those in Mainland China market. We have replaced all our desktop equipment with fixed voltage design in order to fulfill the latest electrical safety requirement in Mainland China. This has affected our production flexibility to certain extend, but we have no option but to follow the recommendations.
> 
> For this reason, I do not recommend you to buy HA-1Amk2 from China/Hong Kong (i.e., 230volt version) and mod the power supply to 115v for US usage.


 
 Thanks for in replay I emailed the guys at Musicteck they are out of stock right now he said he would email me back once they get some in. 
  
 Edit:Would getting a 220 volt version and a step up transformer 110 to 220 volt 500 watt work without effecting the sound quality? If it comes down to that.


----------



## Andykong

kozic said:


> Thanks for in replay I emailed the guys at Musicteck they are out of stock right now he said he would email me back once they get some in.
> 
> Edit:Would getting a 220 volt version and a step up transformer 110 to 220 volt 500 watt work without effecting the sound quality? If it comes down to that.




Adding a step up transformer will definitely affect the audio performance of the HA-1Amk2, espeically in area such as dynamic and soundstage, I wouldn't recommend that unless you are going for something like a re-generation type step up power conditioning device.


----------



## Andykong

*[COLOR=FF00AA]Happy Thanksgiving[/COLOR]*
We are glad to have friends and customers like you.
Wish you all the best on this Special Day.​


​
NOTE: If you can't see the embedded video above, please *CLICK HERE* to see the video.​


----------



## wadi

I'm curious about design/topology of this amp.
  
 Is Ha-1a mk2 a transformer coupled amplifier? Does it use any opamps in its circuit? Does it use feedback?


----------



## heliosphann

Andy is there going to be a tour for the MK2??? I'd sure like to try one out!


----------



## wadi

It is sad to see that Cayin is not as supportive as other companies present on head-fi. There are many unanswered questions under these topics.


----------



## abvolt

wadi said:


> It is sad to see that Cayin is not as supportive as other companies present on head-fi. There are many unanswered questions under these topics.


 
 I know Ill be getting one soon as these holidays over..enjoy


----------



## Andykong

wadi said:


> I'm curious about design/topology of this amp.
> 
> Is Ha-1a mk2 a transformer coupled amplifier? Does it use any opamps in its circuit? Does it use feedback?




Sorry for our late response. 

The HA-1Amk2 is a transformer coupled amplifier, it is 100% discrete components, so you won't find any op-amps in its circuit. We used negative feedback in HA-1Amk2 to improve frequency response, reduce distortion and enhance circuit stability (e.g., compensates due to temperature change).


----------



## Andykong

heliosphann said:


> Andy is there going to be a tour for the MK2??? I'd sure like to try one out!




Unfortunately, we haven't planned for a tour on this product so far. 

Tube amplifier is by nature not as robust as solid state amplifier. The tubes are vulnerable and the amplifier is extremely heavy for its size. making it risky and expensive to ship around. 

We'll shall demo the HA-1Amk2 in all the shows and events we attended, and that will include the CanJam New York and CanJam Singapore. If you will attend any of these events, you are welcome to drop by our booth to check out the HA-1Amk2.


----------



## Andrew Rieger

Is this amp for sale anywhere in the US?


----------



## heliosphann

andrew rieger said:


> Is this amp for sale anywhere in the US?


 
 http://www.musicteck.com/
  
 Bought the i5 from them, good peeps.


----------



## Andykong

*[COLOR=FF00AA]Merry Christmas[/COLOR]*​
On behalf of Cayin, I wish everyone a Merry Christmas and a Prosperous New Year. I know we are always busy this holiday season, especially when Christmas is not a public holiday in Mainland China , but I want to take the time to wish you and yours, happy holidays. This is a special day for family and friends, there isn't anything can't wait until tomorrow, so relax and hug your beloveds around you, play some music, and enjoy the moment together.

I just had a wonderful Christmas dinner with my family. We were a bit late this year as my niece just arrived from LA this morning, but family is always worth waiting for, and good music will make the dinner ever more involving and pleasant. This is one of the playlist that I appreciated during the holiday season and I want to share this with you. 




NOTE: If you can't see the embedded video above, please *CLICK HERE* to see the video.​


----------



## Hifi Boy

Hi Andy.
  
 Merry Christmas to you as well.
  
 I'm looking for a smaller amp for office, nothing too big. I saw the Cayin HA-1Amk2 at the last Fujiya-Avic festival. It was being used by some other headphone company to showcase their headphones (I think it was Yoga Electronics).
  
 Anyway, seeing as how I'm in Japan, I have't found the distributor for this amp. Can you let me know whether it will be available in Japan as well?


----------



## Andykong

hifi boy said:


> Hi Andy.
> 
> Merry Christmas to you as well.
> 
> ...




Our authorized dealer in Japan is KOPEK JAPAN CORP, I'll drop you a PM for their address and contact information.

To the best of my knowledge, KOPEK does not have HA-1Amk in stock currently. Our next production batch of HA-1Amk2 is scheduled at mid January and that should reach Japan before Chinese New Year, so that is around 1 month from now. I suggest you get in touch with them now and confirm the price and availability in advance.


----------



## wadi

Today i listened to Cayin Ha-1a mk2 which belongs to my friend. There is a constant hum and hiss in the background no matter which impedance setting you set. I don't know if it is coming from transformers or tubes.


----------



## gr8soundz

wadi said:


> Today i listened to Cayin Ha-1a mk2 which belongs to my friend. There is a constant hum and hiss in the background no matter which impedance setting you set. I don't know if it is coming from transformers or tubes.


 
  
 I had the same problem with my mk2 that I returned. Might want to send it back if you still can or try removing the outer cover and checking for any visible problems.


----------



## project86

Definitely check on it, something is amiss. Mine has no hum whatsoever and only the expected amount of hiss when I use something ridiculous like a sensitive CIEM.


----------



## wadi

project86 said:


> Definitely check on it, something is amiss. Mine has no hum whatsoever and only the expected amount of hiss when I use something ridiculous like a sensitive CIEM.


 
  
 I'm hearing hum even when power cord is plugged in only. It is strange that hum and hiss gets amplified when you turn impedance selector knob.
  
 I didn't have any problems with my iha-6 and lyr 2 so i don't think it is a grounding problem. When i switch off the amp while playing a song hum disappears and amp keeps playing and until capacitors get discharged. Could it be a bad tube? Since i am hearing hum from both channels i am planning to replace 12dt5 power regulator tube.


----------



## gr8soundz

wadi said:


> *I'm hearing hum even when power cord is plugged in only. It is strange that hum and hiss gets amplified when you turn impedance selector knob.*
> 
> I didn't have any problems with my iha-6 and lyr 2 so i don't think it is a grounding problem. When i switch off the amp while playing a song hum disappears and amp keeps playing and until capacitors get discharged. Could it be a bad tube? Since i am hearing hum from both channels i am planning to replace 12dt5 power regulator tube.


 
  
 That was my issue as well. Not a grounding problem nor a tube problem.
  
 Does the bottom of your mk2 curve inward toward the center?


----------



## project86

wadi said:


> I'm hearing hum even when power cord is plugged in only. It is strange that hum and hiss gets amplified when you turn impedance selector knob.
> 
> I didn't have any problems with my iha-6 and lyr 2 so i don't think it is a grounding problem. When i switch off the amp while playing a song hum disappears and amp keeps playing and until capacitors get discharged. Could it be a bad tube? Since i am hearing hum from both channels i am planning to replace 12dt5 power regulator tube.


 
  
  
 That sounds like a power transformer issue to me, perhaps something was damaged in shipping. Either that, or an output transformer. Either way not good.


----------



## wadi

gr8soundz said:


> That was my issue as well. Not a grounding problem nor a tube problem.
> 
> Does the bottom of your mk2 curve inward toward the center?


 
  
 An interesting detail to notice but yes it does.


----------



## gr8soundz

wadi said:


> An interesting detail to notice but yes it does.


 
  
 Oh boy.... I thought Cayin would've fixed this by now. *The mk2 has a design flaw* (imo) which I'll try to explain. I'm no expert but I do have a mechanical engineering background. Plus the problem is easy to see.
  
 Had hoped my issue was unique and, since (til now) no one else mentioned having the same problem, I didn't post too many details (didn't want my experience to have an overly negative impact). But now, here goes.....
  
  
 Here's a pic inside the original HA-1A:

 Notice the dual transformers up top and the supports along the bottom.
  
  
 Now here's an internal pic of the defective mk2 I had:
  

  
 The braces are gone and at least one of the transformers has been relocated to the bottom under two large metal shields (basically, more mass below). *The lower portion of the amp has caved inward from the extra weight. Probably happened during shipping where the structure wasn't strong enough to prevent permanent flexing* and the L-shaped bottom rails are more prone to bending inward than outward (especially if the amp/box is upside down when the package is 'bouncing' in transit).
  
 The mk2 weighs 22 pounds (compared to the original's 15) so it makes no sense why it has even less structural support.
  
 I went back and forth with several emails between myself, the manufacturer, and dealer. Seems *those covered transformers along the bottom are now too close to the circuitry above. Hence the hiss/hum that I heard and you are now hearing.*
  
 I advised them that their engineers needed to restore the supports or other amps could have the same problem. Unfortunately, seems my words were ignored.
  
 To anyone else thinking about the mk2, I recommend immediately flipping the amp over and taking a look. If it looks anything like below, walk away. I'm guessing the bottom was perfectly flat when it left the factory with the QC sticker on it (at least I hope it was).


----------



## abvolt

Much appreciated for this..


----------



## Andykong

wadi said:


> I'm hearing hum even when power cord is plugged in only. It is strange that hum and hiss gets amplified when you turn impedance selector knob.
> 
> I didn't have any problems with my iha-6 and lyr 2 so i don't think it is a grounding problem. When i switch off the amp while playing a song hum disappears and amp keeps playing and until capacitors get discharged. Could it be a bad tube? Since i am hearing hum from both channels i am planning to replace 12dt5 power regulator tube.







wadi said:


> An interesting detail to notice but yes it does.




Sorry to know that your friend is running into some unsual hissing problem with his HA-1Amk2, can you tell me more detail about the condition of the unit? The hissing problem appeared in the first date of open-box? When a headphone hiss with a tube amplifier, it probably will not be affected by the impedance selection but the impedance of the headphone will make a different. So have you tried other headphones? What are the headphone that you have testing and confirmed the hissing problem? The hissing is at the same level in both left and right channel? Besides curved bottom panel, is there any physical damage to the machine and the package noticed during the initial unbox process?

Hissing can be a tube problem, a transformer leaking, grounding issue, and sensitive headphone, and of course it can also include a structural damage as indicated by another HA-1Amk2 user.

When and where did the unit purchased? Can I help out by contacting the dealer and ask him they can provide local support to your friend?


----------



## Andykong

gr8soundz said:


> Oh boy.... I thought Cayin would've fixed this by now. *The mk2 has a design flaw* (imo) which I'll try to explain. I'm no expert but I do have a mechanical engineering background. Plus the problem is easy to see.
> 
> Had hoped my issue was unique and, since (til now) no one else mentioned having the same problem, I didn't post too many details (didn't want my experience to have an overly negative impact). But now, here goes.....
> 
> ...




Well, we didn't know if the unit that was in question is having the same structural problem or were it acquired before your unit. Do you happen to know the date of purchase for sure when you pointing finger to Cayin? 

Thanks for your detail report with photo, we have been extremely careful in handling every HA-1Amk2 dispatch ever since, offering extra protection and padding/double box depends on the logistic arrangement. 

Sine you have raised the issue, maybe I can share a bit more on what Cayin has done after we received the case. 

HA-1Amk2 was launched in China at 2015-12-4, it is a fairly popular units and we sold hundreds of them at domestic market. The HA-1Amk2 is less popular in oversee market because of the high logistic course and care-taking requirements. Most retailer will prefer iHA-6 over HA-1Amk2, especially when they are selling at the same price (i.e., similar cost before shipping and logistic). Since the logistic cost in China Domestic market is fairly low when compare to the international market, the availability and popularity of both headphone amplifier are more less at the same level. 

The structural damage as exhibited in your case is the first of its kind out of our HA-1Amk2 track record, we have had exterior damage on corners and bad tubes but in most cases the boxes shows sign of damage. We finally can replicate similar damage after a series of drop test, several units of HA-1Amk2 were written off in due course, and we believe logistic is the cause of the damage in your particular case. For this reason, we have step up our logistic handling for oversee transactions. Domestic market is not affected because we have not receive similar instance report after 1 years of sales history. Long term solution will involve reinforcement of structural design as this is cheaper then extra logistic cost in the long run. However our new structural design will involve revising some of the components in the framework and this will take several months before we can roll out the revised design in our production line. Yes, it takes that long when we have to go through the proper design modification procedures, ISO process and related supply chain, and we only have one production batch of HA-1Amk2 in every 2-3 calendar months.


----------



## wadi

Does anyone know how impedance selector works? I guess it doesn't change the output impedance of headphone output. Does just increase/decrease gain or adjust the voltage accordingly?


----------



## project86

It actually does change the output impedance, tapping different windings on the output transformers.


----------



## polarbear9988

Hi Andy,
  
 My HA-1A MK2 also hisses and hums.
  
 Having said that, I wonder what amount of hiss and hum are considered to be a problem.
  
 With my less sensitive headphones, the hiss and hum are barely noticeable.  
  
 BTW, does the HA-1A MK2 has relay mute at start up?
  
 The Chinese manual seems to suggest that the power light will blink at start up but mine does not, it just lights up without blinking.  
  
 Thanks!


----------



## project86

My review is finally live - click HERE to check it out and feel free to leave comments!


----------



## Andykong

polarbear9988 said:


> Hi Andy,
> 
> My HA-1A MK2 also hisses and hums.
> 
> ...





If you are experiencing hissing problem with low-impedance high sensitive headphones, and the issue is significantly reduced at less sensitive headphone, it will be different from the previous two reports which are likely caused by magnetic leaking of the transformer at lower deck. 

The HA-1Amk2 is a very powerful tube amplifier, so it is indeed not a good match with the highly sensitive headphones, in fact John Grandberg has reported similar problem with his AKT5P. High impedance and planar should be a better match with HA-1Amk2.

Changing the small driver tube (12AU7) to a better tube will also reduce the noise floor of the tube amplifier, You don't necessary go for the very expensive NOS tubes if noise floor is your main concern. I have changed my personal set of HA-1Amk2 with Gold Lion reissued and the improvement is very significant, much quieter and improved sense of 3D because of darker background. 

My unit has the same problem, audio will delay for around 20 seconds and then comes in gradually, and the LED is always on instead of blinking.


----------



## Andykong

project86 said:


> My review is finally live - click HERE to check it out and feel free to leave comments!




A very detail review with lots of headphone matching and tube rolling suggestion. This is a good starter guide for HA-1Amk2 owners as well as an informative reference for HeadFier who are interested in the HA-1Amk2 tube headphone amplifier. 

So your picks of 12Au7 are Amperex Bugle Boy 12AU7 and NOS Tung-Sol ECC82 black glass, I have find the following photo and eBay links for our reader's reference, I hope I find the correct tube as suggested:


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Very-Strong-Balanced-Matched-Pair-Amperex-Bugle-Boy12au7-Ecc82-Vacuum-Tubes-/162350071025?hash=item25ccd17cf1:g:QDIAAOSwgmJX0P0N


http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Matched-Pair-Tung-Sol-USA-12AU7-ECC82-Black-Glass-Vacuum-Tubes-/152385955283?_trksid=p2349526.m2548.l4275

*(The eBay links are provided for reference only, Cayin are not affliated with these tube sellers and is in no position to recommend tube stores in US or locations outside mainland China.)*

I do agree that changing the driver tube (12AU7) is the first and probably most effective tweaking with HA-1Amk2. I have shared an printed review in Hong Kong (written in Chinese, sorry) few months back and the reviewer has raised exactly the same recommendation. There are loads of choice in the market, some of them are good for low noise (Telefunkens Smooth Plate, Mullard M8136. Amperex 7316, ...) which is a good option for users with sensitive headphones. There are others provides more detail and extension (JJ ECC82，Sylvania 6189, Tungsram 12AU7, ...). So I don't recommend our customers to rush into exotic tubes immediately, they do offer significant improvement over the stock tubes, but you have to understand the need of your system before you can shortlisted appropriate tubes for your setup.

If you are completely new to the tube domain, you probably need to read up some background information about 12AU7 and its variants:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12AU7
http://www.effectrode.com/signal-tubes/the-12au7-tube/
http://www.jacmusic.com/nos/ECC82.htm


There are also some discussion on 12AU7 tube rolling on the original HA1A here in HeadFi:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/392713/12au7-comparison
http://www.head-fi.org/t/183771/what-kind-of-tubes-are-compatible-with-12au7
http://www.head-fi.org/t/448505/12au7-aficionados-please-reply


----------



## Andykong

Cayin will attend the CanJam NYC next week and we'll taking up the private room *Uris*, this is Cayin's first attempt to run a private room in CanJam, the ample space has enabled a lot of possibility for us including setup a special tube-rolling demo for HA-1Amk2.


Cayin @ Canjam NYC Preview and Sneak Peaks Starting at [COLOR=FF00AA]30m44s [/COLOR]
​
We shall setup TWO HA-1Amk2 side by side, driving by the same DAC (iDAC-6) and using the same headphone (HD800 and Dharma D1000). One of the HA-1Amk2 will run on stock tubes, while the other HA-1Amk2 will have the EL84 (x2) and 12AU7 (x2) replaced by Gold Lion reissued tubes. These are one of the better tubes that are readily available at an affordable price. We hope by offering first-hand experience to show visitors, they can understand and appreciate the effect of tube rolling in Cayin HA-1Amk2.

This is an unique opportunity to AB test the HA-1Amk2 using different tubes, if you will attend Canjam NYC, please stop by our room and check out the HA-1Amk2 tube rolling demo.


----------



## polarbear9988

Has anyone tried 5963 with the HA-1A MK2?
  
 My understanding is that the 5963 has lower maximum plate voltage than the 12AU7 but it is otherwise very similar.


----------



## project86

polarbear9988 said:


> Has anyone tried 5963 with the HA-1A MK2?
> 
> My understanding is that the 5963 has lower maximum plate voltage than the 12AU7 but it is otherwise very similar.


 
  
 I did not try those unfortunately... I suspect it would likely work, as I've never had any problem using the 5963 in place of 12AU7. But that only represents a sample size of maybe 3 or 4, so not particularly definitive. Perhaps Cayin can chime in after they finish with the CanJam event taking place right now.


----------



## zzzmonster

Has anyone used this amp with the AQ Nighthawk or the ZMF Atticus? Thanks


----------



## project86

zzzmonster said:


> Has anyone used this amp with the AQ Nighthawk or the ZMF Atticus? Thanks


 
  
  
 Closest I have come is with several of the T50RP-based mods - Alpha Dogs, old Thunderpants, etc. It does a very good job, better than most tube amps out there likely due to stout current delivery. Tube choice will determine your final results of course.


----------



## zzzmonster

project86 said:


> Closest I have come is with several of the T50RP-based mods - Alpha Dogs, old Thunderpants, etc. It does a very good job, better than most tube amps out there likely due to stout current delivery. Tube choice will determine your final results of course.


 
  
 Thanks, but probably not close enough as T50RP is planar, NH and Atticus are dynamic


----------



## Allanmarcus

andykong said:


> gr8soundz said:
> 
> 
> > Oh boy.... I thought Cayin would've fixed this by now. *The mk2 has a design flaw* (imo) which I'll try to explain. I'm no expert but I do have a mechanical engineering background. Plus the problem is easy to see.
> ...


 

 Any progress to report on a "version 2" of the Mk2?


----------



## polarbear9988

Anyone tried 5963 signal tubes with the amp?


----------



## grizzlybeast (May 10, 2017)

Where do you purchase this amp in the US?
And will it be an updated version?


----------



## Kozic

grizzlybeast said:


> Where do you purchase this amp in the US?
> And will it be an updated version?


This is the US distributor https://shop.musicteck.com/collections/cayin but last I checked they were out,and then I found a nice used MK1 for $350 and that's that ......for now.


----------



## grizzlybeast (May 22, 2017)

Well thanks to Jason of the Source @TSAVJason I have this amplifier in house for a review.

I must say that I believe some of my impressions of this amplifier will differ from what I have read. That is a good thing. Not perfect but more up my alley than a lot of gear I have tried, including the iHA6. 

The first five minutes have my jaw slightly slacked open.


----------



## grizzlybeast

zzzmonster said:


> Has anyone used this amp with the AQ Nighthawk or the ZMF Atticus? Thanks


testing it with the Atticus. 

Makes the Atticus punch harder than any of the tube amps I have plugged it into. A bit more bloomy though and enhances the Atticus' etheral qualities. Basically whatever you like about the Atticus it will accentuate, its flaws too though.


----------



## TSAVJason

grizzlybeast said:


> testing it with the Atticus.
> 
> Makes the Atticus punch harder than any of the tube amps I have plugged it into. A bit more bloomy though and enhances the Atticus' etheral qualities. Basically whatever you like about the Atticus it will accentuate, its flaws too though.



Pretty good observations! Look forward to a more informative review from you.


----------



## Andrew Rieger

grizzlybeast said:


> testing it with the Atticus.
> 
> Makes the Atticus punch harder than any of the tube amps I have plugged it into. A bit more bloomy though and enhances the Atticus' etheral qualities. Basically whatever you like about the Atticus it will accentuate, its flaws too though.



Hey Grizzly ... will you be testing it with the Eikon? If so, any early impressions?


----------



## Andrew Rieger

TSAVJason said:


> Pretty good observations! Look forward to a more informative review from you.



Jason, have you heard any word on a revised version of this amp that solves the structural issue with sagging transformers?


----------



## TSAVJason

Andrew Rieger said:


> Jason, have you heard any word on a revised version of this amp that solves the structural issue with sagging transformers?



I haven't heard a word on that topic. Tell me more.


----------



## TSAVJason

Andrew Rieger said:


> Hey Grizzly ... will you be testing it with the Eikon? If so, any early impressions?



Now that combo I have spent time with and it absolutely doesn't suck. It's a great pairing


----------



## Andrew Rieger

TSAVJason said:


> I haven't heard a word on that topic. Tell me more.



In the first post of page 6, @gr8soundz shows how the weight of the transformers can cause the chassis the flex inwardly which. Andy the Cayin rep said a few posts later that they were revising the design to fix this problem and that it would be a few months. Since you have a direct line of contact to Cayin, it would be awesome if you could ask them about this revision and when it might be coming stateside.

Also, do you have an HA-1A MK2 set up at your Torrance location to demo?


----------



## TSAVJason

Andrew Rieger said:


> In the first post of page 6, @gr8soundz shows how the weight of the transformers can cause the chassis the flex inwardly which. Andy the Cayin rep said a few posts later that they were revising the design to fix this problem and that it would be a few months. Since you have a direct line of contact to Cayin, it would be awesome if you could ask them about this revision and when it might be coming stateside.
> 
> Also, do you have an HA-1A MK2 set up at your Torrance location to demo?



It appears that problem is resolved and Andy was still awake when I texted him. ....that's crazy at 15 hours ahead of us.

Yes we do have the mk11 on display along with the 6's.


----------



## grizzlybeast

Andrew Rieger said:


> Hey Grizzly ... will you be testing it with the Eikon? If so, any early impressions?


I think that would be a perfect match.  Also for a grand I can't think of a better pairing I would choose... BUT my Eikon is on loan right now. Also possibly by the time I get it back my time with the Cayin will be up (not sure on my time). I will put my full review up at Earphiles.org when I am finished.


----------



## Andrew Rieger (May 23, 2017)

TSAVJason said:


> It appears that problem is resolved and Andy was still awake when I texted him. ....that's crazy at 15 hours ahead of us.
> 
> Yes we do have the mk11 on display along with the 6's.



OK, cool, glad to hear. I was confused. Andy said they were going to change shipping procedures to avoid the issue but he also stated that there were also going to be design changes as well. Just curious.

Andy said this on page 6:

"Long term solution will involve reinforcement of structural design as this is cheaper then extra logistic cost in the long run. However our new structural design will involve revising some of the components in the framework and this will take several months before we can roll out the revised design in our production line. Yes, it takes that long when we have to go through the proper design modification procedures, ISO process and related supply chain, and we only have one production batch of HA-1Amk2 in every 2-3 calendar months."

It would be great if Andy could clarify wether or not this is still happening.

Do you have a unit to demo at your Torrance store?


----------



## TSAVJason

Andrew Rieger said:


> OK, cool, glad to hear. I was confused. Andy said they were going to change shipping procedures to avoid the issue but he also stated that there were also going to be design changes as well. Just curious.
> 
> Andy said this on page 6:
> 
> ...



I believe I've answered this already but yes the PCB is supported and shipping changes were made. Yes we have the mkII on display for your audition capability here in the Torrance California


----------



## Andrew Rieger

TSAVJason said:


> I believe I've answered this already but yes the PCB is supported and shipping changes were made. Yes we have the mkII on display for your audition capability here in the Torrance California



Sweet, thanks so much Jason. Excited to hear this amp.


----------



## Allanmarcus

It would be great to compare it to a Schiit MJ2, as they seem to be in the same price range. (if possible).


----------



## Andrew Rieger

I'm certainly keeping my eye on this amp.


----------



## Andykong

Andrew Rieger said:


> OK, cool, glad to hear. I was confused. Andy said they were going to change shipping procedures to avoid the issue but he also stated that there were also going to be design changes as well. Just curious.
> 
> Andy said this on page 6:
> 
> ...



The new structural design was in place in late 2016, so when I wrote that message (early January 2017), the design was there, factory has zero stock on hand, and we were waiting for the new production schedule to execute the new design.  Then we have the long Chinese New Year vacation starting 21st Jan, and the first production after Chinese New Year is revised design.  I am quite sure all current stock on hand from oversee dealers are revised design already because we only have a handful of international dealer carrying this amp. all over the world and they don't stock up on this model. We can't be sure about the old-stock in back in Mainland China. This is because while we are perceived as a new brand in oversee HeadFi market, Cayin is famous and popular on tube amplifier back in our home market, so our tube headphone amplifier has a much wider coverage and we cannot trace the stock of each and every shops in Mainland China, so if happen to travel to China and wanted to buy a HA-1Amk2 there, you have to be a bit careful, especially if you need to ship the amplifier back home after that, extra box and package is recommend.


----------



## Allanmarcus

Andykong said:


> The new structural design was in place in late 2016, so when I wrote that message (early January 2017), the design was there, factory has zero stock on hand, and we were waiting for the new production schedule to execute the new design.  Then we have the long Chinese New Year vacation starting 21st Jan, and the first production after Chinese New Year is revised design.  I am quite sure all current stock on hand from oversee dealers are revised design already because we only have a handful of international dealer carrying this amp. all over the world and they don't stock up on this model. We can't be sure about the old-stock in back in Mainland China. This is because while we are perceived as a new brand in oversee HeadFi market, Cayin is famous and popular on tube amplifier back in our home market, so our tube headphone amplifier has a much wider coverage and we cannot trace the stock of each and every shops in Mainland China, so if happen to travel to China and wanted to buy a HA-1Amk2 there, you have to be a bit careful, especially if you need to ship the amplifier back home after that, extra box and package is recommend.



Do you have the serial number when the new design started? Then everything before is one design and everything after is new design.


----------



## grizzlybeast

I posted my review up here 

was going to share some pics etc but they are too huge here.


----------



## TSAVJason

grizzlybeast said:


> I posted my review up here
> 
> was going to share some pics etc but they are too huge here.



Awesome Lee! Thx!


----------



## TSAVJason

Allanmarcus said:


> Do you have the serial number when the new design started? Then everything before is one design and everything after is new design.



This web site is really having issues isn't it. I haven't tried to get that information from Cayin because I only just saw your post. I'll try to get that if possible. 

So we have agreed with Cayin to be the US distributor for the Cayin desk top amps with another distributor in NY for the portables. I am in dialog with Cayin to reduce the retail a bit making it more affordable to you folks and our walk in customers. I think the current price is very fair but I'd like to see a match in retail between China (country or origin) and the US & European markets. This way you don't have to buy a modified product from a non-authorized dealer in China just to get a fair price here in the states. Keep in mind that as soon as the unit is modified the warranty on these products immediately lose its warranty status and that isn't good.


----------



## grizzlybeast

I just want to chime in here if I can. 

First of all I had the stock tubes in that unit. Those tubes are said to suck. The Cayin is also said to respond to tube rolling very well. All that being said. At the price it is at now brand new It is at a very good price. No schilling .... scouts honor. In fact if it weren't for me pinching pennies for the Eddie Current Afficianado I would have already bought one. 

The good thing about the Cayin is that it has a very warm and tubey sound with a distinct lack of compression. But at the same time the treble, while smooth in balance, is actually crisp and snappy. It is not the most resolving but the way music sounds open on it and far from compressed is really stellar. It sounds more organic than any of the tube amps I have here. The Torpedo III is a bit more snappy, resolved, and is almost as organic but the Cayin is a little more melodic. 

I did have some noise though with the high impedance selected.


----------



## MLGrado (Jun 15, 2017)

I am going to NEED one of these, now!!!


12au7  with EL84 makes for KILLER TUBE-HEAD AMP.

For more than a year I was using both the headphone output which has its own custom output transformer, and the main transformer with a super simple little impedance match/gain drop device.  Oh, the AMP itself... ICON AUDIO STEREO 20pp

Great AMP!

Now for something more competitive than that.. I have 'graduated' to the ICON HP8 MKII.  Which thankfully allows me to keep using my 12AX7 tubes, plus all my 12AU7,12BH7,5814 etc etc via 6SN7 adapters.

Here was the bugger.  I had NO 6SN7 when I bought the HP8.  I have about 150 12AX7 and 300 or more 12AU7,  a several quads of EL84.  But NO 6SN7.

Adding another tube to my collection, especially THOSE expensive little demons... well

Looks like the Cayin might let me let go of the need to stockpile 6SN7 types and then I can tube roll all day, night, week, month and year long with my exisiting collection.  Because, come on, isn't that what audiophool tube rollers like do all day long?  I can't sit still with the same tube combo it seems for more than 2 or 3 hours at a time.   

You think I am kidding.  I am glad that you still THINK I am kidding.

ANYWAY, I found out the best sounding 6SN7 in the ICON amp is the RCA 6F8G.  another 'adapter required' number, but, I have felt NO urge to take the pair out.  NADA.  So that is a really, really huge and telling sign!


OK... so back on track.  Gonna pick up one of these to compare to the ICON, and have some fun playing with my 12AU7 tubes again.  (I abandoned using them in the ICON with adapter.  The ICON amp doesn't like them all that well.  About the only ones that could START to compete are Siemens triple mica E82CC)


----------



## Andykong

grizzlybeast said:


> I just want to chime in here if I can.
> 
> First of all I had the stock tubes in that unit. Those tubes are said to suck. The Cayin is also said to respond to tube rolling very well. All that being said. At the price it is at now brand new It is at a very good price. No schilling .... scouts honor. In fact if it weren't for me pinching pennies for the Eddie Current Afficianado I would have already bought one.
> 
> ...



Lee, you are one of the very few reviewers who has hands-on our iDAC-6/iHA-6 combo and HA-1Amk2, that's why I value your opinion on Cayin desktop HeadFi products because you understand what we have in mind and what we are trying to deliver through our product, and you know the Cayin house sound pretty well.

The HA-1Amk2 is definitely a tube roller, I'll recommend we start at the 12AU7, changing the EL84 will bring in less variation when compare to the 12AU7.  In fact most, if not all, Cayin traditional tube amplifiers are very good tube rollers.  While Traditional tube amplifier are designed to make tube rolling very straight forward, that's because the tube amplifier are normally placed 6ft (at least) away from the user during operation, so it is kind of safe to keep the tube in open space and facilitate tube rolling easily.  The HA-1Amk2 is designed as a desktop amplifier and the user are assumed to sit at an arm-distance only, so keeping the tubes at open-space will be risky to certain extend, that's why we need to put the tubes into an enclosed chamber.  This will make tube roller less efficient as you need to take off the exterior enclosure before you can access to the tube chamber, but we think the HA-1Amk2 design has take care of operational safety and aesthetics of tube amplifier on the expense of tube rolling efficiency.


----------



## Andykong

MLGrado said:


> I am going to NEED one of these, now!!!
> 
> 
> 12au7  with EL84 makes for KILLER TUBE-HEAD AMP.
> ...



300 or more 12AU7 and a several quads of EL84? What are you waiting for?  Given  your tube collection, the HA-1Amk2 can pair with a lot of headphones and surprise you all day, night, week, month and year.


----------



## Allanmarcus (Jun 16, 2017)

Andykong said:


> Lee, you are one of the very few reviewers who has hands-on our iDAC-6/iHA-6 combo and HA-1Amk2, that's why I value your opinion on Cayin desktop HeadFi products because you understand what we have in mind and what we are trying to deliver through our product, and you know the Cayin house sound pretty well.
> 
> The HA-1Amk2 is definitely a tube roller, I'll recommend we start at the 12AU7, changing the EL84 will bring in less variation when compare to the 12AU7.  In fact most, if not all, Cayin traditional tube amplifiers are very good tube rollers.  While Traditional tube amplifier are designed to make tube rolling very straight forward, that's because the tube amplifier are normally placed 6ft (at least) away from the user during operation, so it is kind of safe to keep the tube in open space and facilitate tube rolling easily.  The HA-1Amk2 is designed as a desktop amplifier and the user are assumed to sit at an arm-distance only, so keeping the tubes at open-space will be risky to certain extend, that's why we need to put the tubes into an enclosed chamber.  This will make tube roller less efficient as you need to take off the exterior enclosure before you can access to the tube chamber, but we think the HA-1Amk2 design has take care of operational safety and aesthetics of tube amplifier on the expense of tube rolling efficiency.


I disagree with your design decision I have two tube amps within arm's distance from where I sit at my computer, and I have no issues at all with the tubes. In fact I have purchased extra equipment to make the tubes on my Schiit amp stick out further to allow for easier access.

What would be very innovative would be easy access to the tubes with a lid on the case that rolls back or flips up with a hinge, and some sort of  locking mechanism like a magnet or click latch


----------



## Andykong

Allanmarcus said:


> I disagree with your design decision I have two tube amps within arm's distance from where I sit at my computer, and I have no issues at all with the tubes. In fact I have purchased extra equipment to make the tubes on my Schiit amp stick out further to allow for easier access.
> 
> What would be very innovative would be easy access to the tubes with a lid on the case that rolls back or flips up with a hinge, and some sort of  locking mechanism like a magnet or click latch




Well, I have no problem that you disagree with our take on the issue, no design decision will please everyone.  

As I mentioned previously, we want to achieve operational safety and aesthetics at the same time, and I think HA-1Amk2 has achieve a pretty well-received result on these two issues.


----------



## TSAVJason

grizzlybeast said:


> I just want to chime in here if I can.
> 
> First of all I had the stock tubes in that unit. Those tubes are said to suck. The Cayin is also said to respond to tube rolling very well. All that being said. At the price it is at now brand new It is at a very good price. No schilling .... scouts honor. In fact if it weren't for me pinching pennies for the Eddie Current Afficianado I would have already bought one.
> 
> ...



So as TSAV ramps up for distribution here in the States we are moving toward a lower retail on the Cayin Desk Top headphone amplifiers. As of now the price is $999 for the tube amp. Our goal is to get this price down 10 or more % to make it easier for the tube rolling gang to get into this very cool low cost product.


----------



## TSAVJason (Jun 16, 2017)

Allanmarcus said:


> I disagree with your design decision I have two tube amps within arm's distance from where I sit at my computer, and I have no issues at all with the tubes. In fact I have purchased extra equipment to make the tubes on my Schiit amp stick out further to allow for easier access.
> 
> What would be very innovative would be easy access to the tubes with a lid on the case that rolls back or flips up with a hinge, and some sort of  locking mechanism like a magnet or click latch



Good input Allan. I think Cayin should put that on their "Good Idea" list for future products. The MkII is too far along to change that dramatically but I think your contribution is cool. Never the less these desk top amp/DAC products are pretty impressive for the money. You've met me, you know I favor well made products at a good value.


----------



## Lucas_ob

GOSH it's been a decade year since the MKI?


----------



## wadi

Has anyone tried Ecc802 as replacement of 12au7 and El844 as replacement of El84?


----------



## Andykong

wadi said:


> Has anyone tried Ecc802 as replacement of 12au7 and El844 as replacement of El84?



ECC802 can be used as replacement of 12au7 in HA1amk2.

We haven't used EL844 so far, technically it can be used as replacement of EL84 in our amp., the tube claims to be an 25% improved version of EL84, so I'll advice you to proceed with care because HA1Amk2 is a high power tube headphone amp. to start with.


----------



## wadi

Andykong said:


> ECC802 can be used as replacement of 12au7 in HA1amk2.
> 
> We haven't used EL844 so far, technically it can be used as replacement of EL84 in our amp., the tube claims to be an 25% improved version of EL84, so I'll advice you to proceed with care because HA1Amk2 is a high power tube headphone amp. to start with.



Thanks Andy. It would be nice to have a chart/list of compatible tubes.


----------



## wadi

Hello @Andykong. As i said earlier it would be nice to have a chart/list of compatible tubes.

Since 12dt5 tubes are hard to find Is there any alternative as replacement? Also i'm wondering if i can use 12bh7 as replacement of 12au7?


----------



## Level5 (Nov 30, 2017)

Recently got this tube amp and encountered the same issues with hiss/hum/usb microphonics, but in my case it wasn't caused by any defect or internal damage.

I managed to solve all the issues by using an external powered usb 3.0 hub to plug my dac there instead of directly to the pc, followed by plugging the tube amp and dac on a power conditioner in a separate wall outlet away from my pc.

It seems tube amps are quite sensitive unlike solid state amps/dacs! This was quite a learning experience and I'm glad I'm finally able to enjoy this underrated tube amp without getting distracted with noise/distortion even with changing the impedance selector!


----------



## Andykong

Level5 said:


> Recently got this tube amp and encountered the same issues with hiss/hum/usb microphonics, but in my case it wasn't caused by any defect or internal damage.
> 
> I managed to solve all the issues by using an external powered usb 3.0 hub to plug my dac there instead of directly to the pc, followed by plugging the tube amp and dac on a power conditioner in a separate wall outlet away from my pc.
> 
> It seems tube amps are quite sensitive unlike solid state amps/dacs! This was quite a learning experience and I'm glad I'm finally able to enjoy this underrated tube amp without getting distracted with noise/distortion even with changing the impedance selector!



Interesting, please show us a photo of your system and the power supply tricks you have employed, that should be very interesting.

So you use the USB 3.0 hub as a USB cleaner?  Wander if Schiit Audio WYRD or iFi iUSB3.0 will do a better job for you?

The switching power supply of a desktop PC is indeed the source of power contamination, if you  have a notebook around, try to sue that as your source and see if you can experience a darker background?


----------



## Level5 (Dec 2, 2017)

Andykong said:


> Interesting, please show us a photo of your system and the power supply tricks you have employed, that should be very interesting.
> 
> So you use the USB 3.0 hub as a USB cleaner?  Wander if Schiit Audio WYRD or iFi iUSB3.0 will do a better job for you?
> 
> The switching power supply of a desktop PC is indeed the source of power contamination, if you  have a notebook around, try to sue that as your source and see if you can experience a darker background?



Like I said earlier, I'm no longer hearing any hiss/hum/buzz so the background is pitch black!

With my HD800 set at 151-300 impedance, I only start to hear the amp's noise floor creeping up around 10 o'clock, but fortunately that's eardrums/drivers killer volume level. I'm usually staying around 6-7 o'clock on the dial no matter the impedance selected. This amp is seriously powerful and scary if you're not careful with the volume dial.

Just to summarize again, here's the things I did to solve the hiss/buzz/microphonics issues:

-  External powered USB hub (I'm using my monitor's built in usb 3.0 hub) instead of plugging directly to the PC.

- Removed the amp and dac from sharing the same wall outlet/surge protector with my PC and relocated it to its own dedicated wall outlet with a surge protector. (I briefly tried a power conditioner but I didn't really hear any difference so I returned it)

- Swapped out the stock 12au7 to Gold Lion and the stock EL84 to Sovtek (TBH, I'm not sure if this helped the noise but it sounds better than the stock for sure!) and soon I'll try out the EL84 with Gold Lion!


----------



## Level5 (Dec 2, 2017)

I went deeper and now I'm able plug the dac directly to my motherboard without hearing any hiss/buzz/microphonics by disabling C1E + C3/C6 + EIST on my motherboard bios BUT I still needed to have the amp/dac on a dedicated wall outlet.

Watch this for more info:


----------



## Andykong

Level5 said:


> Like I said earlier, I'm no longer hearing any hiss/hum/buzz so the background is pitch black!
> 
> With my HD800 set at 151-300 impedance, I only start to hear the amp's noise floor creeping up around 10 o'clock, but fortunately that's eardrums/drivers killer volume level. I'm usually staying around 6-7 o'clock on the dial no matter the impedance selected. This amp is seriously powerful and scary if you're not careful with the volume dial.
> 
> ...



Nice move, I changed my HA-1Amk2 to Gold Lion too.  The ECC82 swap is so obvious, I strongly recommend this tube to HA-1Amk2 users.  Switching to Gold Lion EL84 becomes relatively subtle, so maybe there better options out there somewhere.


----------



## Level5 (Dec 6, 2017)

Andykong said:


> Nice move, I changed my HA-1Amk2 to Gold Lion too.  The ECC82 swap is so obvious, I strongly recommend this tube to HA-1Amk2 users.  Switching to Gold Lion EL84 becomes relatively subtle, so maybe there better options out there somewhere.



It definitely adds a pleasing smooth texture with the Gold lion EL84/12au7 combo which goes really well with HD800, but might be a bit too smooth for my "dark" Nighthawk (still very musical/textured but slight loss in transparency).

I also resolved the channel imbalance on very low volume by using my nfb28.38 (discreet dac/amp) to bypass all volume control from the amp to be fully controlled by the dac. The added benefit is the ability to use the gain settings on the nfb28.38 and most importantly, the remote!


----------



## Level5 (Dec 9, 2017)

A bit too smooth for liking with the Gold Lion EL84 so back to stock Electro Harmonix again to synergize better with my "dark" Nighthawk.

Crazy how this tube amp is so sensitive to tube rolling!


----------



## project86

I tell ya, those stock Electro Harmonix tubes are great.


----------



## Level5

project86 said:


> I tell ya, those stock Electro Harmonix tubes are great.



Ya I didn't appreciate it until I tried other EL84 and was surprised that it changed the sounds as much as swapping the 12au7. Its really a damn transparent tube amp!


----------



## Andykong

HA-1AmkII has received the Bronze award from Desktop Headphone Amplifier (Analogue Input) category of 2017 AVIC Autumn Headphone Festival

http://www.fujiya-avic.jp/user_data/hpfes-award2017a.php


----------



## Andykong

We wish you all a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! 

Special appreciation to every participant and subscriber of this thread for your patient and positive attitude to Cayin and our product.

As a relatively new comers to the HeadFi community, Cayin owns you all a big thank.

We are looking forward to continue the sound journey with you in 2018.


----------



## Sound Eq

can i ask from where i can buy this to be shipped internationally


----------



## Kozic

Sound Eq said:


> can i ask from where i can buy this to be shipped internationally


Try https://shop.musicteck.com/collections/cayin


----------



## TSAVJason

Kozic said:


> Try https://shop.musicteck.com/collections/cayin



No US or Canadian Dealer or distributor is allowed to ship off shore. Please be more careful of the information you put out. The buyer should resource their product in their area. If they can’t find access in their area they should contact in this case Cayin to determine their options on where to buy.


----------



## Sound Eq (Feb 25, 2018)

Hi everyone, I was about to pull the trigger on this amp, but now that I see even some comments from Andy I am not confident anymore

Can anyone please tell is this amp good to buy without having to deal with hiss issues or is Cayin in the process to design a new updated one

does everyone have hiss issues, as having to deal with hiss issues is a huge no no


----------



## braaam

Sound Eq said:


> Hi everyone, I was about to pull the trigger on this amp, but now that I see even some comments from Andy I am not confident anymore
> 
> Can anyone please tell is this amp good to buy without having to deal with hiss issues or is Cayin in the process to design a new updated one
> 
> does everyone have hiss issues, as having to deal with hiss issues is a huge no no



I’m in the middle of debugging multiple issues with my HA-1A MK2, which I bought from a fellow head-fier. Although it does sound great - there are too many issues to be able to fully enjoy mine. My unit suffers from transformer hum (possibly caused by rough handling during shipment), a very noticable background hiss (although less present on lower impedance headphones)  and the volume/source selection section getting completely bypassed when I connect a line source to the cd-input (as in, both knobs don’t function anymore). Interstingly, the background hiss is gone too in that case, which makes me suspect there is something wrong in the volume control or source select circuitry.. 

All in all it’s been a big headache for me. I still hope to resolve the issues with Cayin, but can’t recommend this amp to anyone at the moment. I will update here when I find out more.


----------



## Sound Eq

braaam said:


> I’m in the middle of debugging multiple issues with my HA-1A MK2, which I bought from a fellow head-fier. Although it does sound great - there are too many issues to be able to fully enjoy mine. My unit suffers from transformer hum (possibly caused by rough handling during shipment), a very noticable background hiss (although less present on lower impedance headphones)  and the volume/source selection section getting completely bypassed when I connect a line source to the cd-input (as in, both knobs don’t function anymore). Interstingly, the background hiss is gone too in that case, which makes me suspect there is something wrong in the volume control or source select circuitry..
> 
> All in all it’s been a big headache for me. I still hope to resolve the issues with Cayin, but can’t recommend this amp to anyone at the moment. I will update here when I find out more.



that really is not ideal, i had high for it being from cayin


----------



## braaam

Sound Eq said:


> that really is not ideal, i had high for it being from cayin



I have to add that mine is one of the earlier revisions, so some of these issues may be resolved with later revisions.


----------



## Level5 (Feb 25, 2018)

The best pairing I've had that eliminated the hum/hiss is with Holo Cyan R2R dac. Absolutely the blackest background!


----------



## Andykong

Sound Eq said:


> can i ask from where i can buy this to be shipped internationally



Our dealer network is geographically assigned, they are not suppose to sell beyond their region without our consent.  The typical examples are EU dealers are allowed to sell "internationally" to other EU countries that does not have an authorized dealer.  So if you can't find a local dealer for Cayin product, PM me your location and I'll arrange this for you, the last resort will be buying through our Aliexpress store.

Please be reminded Cayin offers limited warranty service through local distributor/dealer network.  If you buy from unauthorized dealer, you have to send the product back to the seller and ask them to submit the item to us, Cayin will not accept direct mailing from customers for warranty or repair service.



Sound Eq said:


> Hi everyone, I was about to pull the trigger on this amp, but now that I see even some comments from Andy I am not confident anymore
> 
> Can anyone please tell is this amp good to buy without having to deal with hiss issues or is Cayin in the process to design a new updated one
> 
> does everyone have hiss issues, as having to deal with hiss issues is a huge no no



We are not in the process to develop an updated version of HA-1Amk2, I have proposed a minor upgrade version with 4 pin balanced output but that has been  rejected.

What headphones will be used or plan to use with the HA-1Amk2?  

By the way,  I have avoided to comment on subjective issues as much as possible, but that doesn't mean I am not in a conflict of interest position.  So please be reminded that I am a sales rep. of Cayin , for that reason, it's natural to take my advice with a grain of salt.


----------



## Andykong

braaam said:


> I’m in the middle of debugging multiple issues with my HA-1A MK2, which I bought from a fellow head-fier. Although it does sound great - there are too many issues to be able to fully enjoy mine. My unit suffers from transformer hum (possibly caused by rough handling during shipment), a very noticable background hiss (although less present on lower impedance headphones)  and the volume/source selection section getting completely bypassed when I connect a line source to the cd-input (as in, both knobs don’t function anymore). Interstingly, the background hiss is gone too in that case, which makes me suspect there is something wrong in the volume control or source select circuitry..
> 
> All in all it’s been a big headache for me. I still hope to resolve the issues with Cayin, but can’t recommend this amp to anyone at the moment. I will update here when I find out more.



I can confirmed that braaam has discussed with me on the transformer hum and background noise issue.  He has also informed about the volume/source selection issue but unfortunately that was after we have break for Chinese New Year (11-25 Feb 2018), so the detail has not been reviewed by our Engineer yet, prima facie evidence suggested that the amplifier is damaged because this is the abnormal and first time ever we have "the volume/source selection section getting completely bypassed when  he connect a line source to the cd-input".  

For the record, braaam is located in Europe and he bought the 120V version HA-1Amk2 second handed from US.


----------



## Sound Eq

Andykong said:


> Our dealer network is geographically assigned, they are not suppose to sell beyond their region without our consent.  The typical examples are EU dealers are allowed to sell "internationally" to other EU countries that does not have an authorized dealer.  So if you can't find a local dealer for Cayin product, PM me your location and I'll arrange this for you, the last resort will be buying through our Aliexpress store.
> 
> Please be reminded Cayin offers limited warranty service through local distributor/dealer network.  If you buy from unauthorized dealer, you have to send the product back to the seller and ask them to submit the item to us, Cayin will not accept direct mailing from customers for warranty or repair service.
> 
> ...



Thanks Andy, that is exactly why I wanted to know if its a single unit incident about the hiss. We have a cayin dealer and I am now contemplating which cayin dac and amp I will buy. I know having you on board is always a great asset. Soon I will share my experience with one of your gears, so its decision time


----------



## Andykong

Sound Eq said:


> Thanks Andy, that is exactly why I wanted to know if its a single unit incident about the hiss. We have a cayin dealer and I am now contemplating which cayin dac and amp I will buy. I know having you on board is always a great asset. Soon I will share my experience with one of your gears, so its decision time



May I guess? You are located in South East Asia? Malaysia? 

Please check the following link for my vote to the best dac and headphone amp setup from Cayin, and I can assure you that this setup is dead silent even with sensitive headphones such as Focal Utopia and Meze Emperyon  
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/CanJam_NYC_2018/CanJam_2018_page3.htm


----------



## Sound Eq (Feb 26, 2018)

Andykong said:


> May I guess? You are located in South East Asia? Malaysia?
> 
> Please check the following link for my vote to the best dac and headphone amp setup from Cayin, and I can assure you that this setup is dead silent even with sensitive headphones such as Focal Utopia and Meze Emperyon
> http://www.enjoythemusic.com/CanJam_NYC_2018/CanJam_2018_page3.htm




 Sorry I was leaning more to *iDAC-6&iHA-6 - Cayin as its more in my budget*


I totally respect your company and your presence here in this forum is so much appreciated

As from where I am, I am not from East Asia but I love those countires, I am originally from Jordan, but I live now in Israel, and we have a new Israeli dealer for your products and soon I will be able to test those out locally, which is an honour


----------



## iceanddice

Gots the idac iha stack. Will this be a good addition to the setup in your opinion, for those times where a tubey sound is wanted? Ive an hd800s, edition x and possibly an lcd-mx4... haven’t eyeballed the specs as much yet tho.


----------



## Andykong

Sound Eq said:


> Sorry I was leaning more to *iDAC-6&iHA-6 - Cayin as its more in my budget*
> 
> 
> I totally respect your company and your presence here in this forum is so much appreciated
> ...



That's an interesting turn but I sure agree that iDAC-6 and iHA-6 is an incredible stack.  Check out Jude's comment on the stack and you'll be amzed by the potential of this budgeted choice.



I can't quote the name of Jude's friend in this video clip, but I can assure you that he is someone who is really familiar with the $6000 HiFiman Susvara.  Rated at 83db, the Susvara is definitely one of the most difficult load to headphone amplifier, if iHA-6 can handle Susvara, it should be able to drive any headphone in the market.


----------



## Andykong

iceanddice said:


> Gots the idac iha stack. Will this be a good addition to the setup in your opinion, for those times where a tubey sound is wanted? Ive an hd800s, edition x and possibly an lcd-mx4... haven’t eyeballed the specs as much yet tho.



Let me put it this way, I prefer HA-1AMK2 with HD800S, but for HiFiman Edition X, iHA-6 is a better choice to my ear.  Unfortunately I haven't try LCD-MX4 with Cayin's gears, so I not 100% sure with that, but with LCD3 and LCD4, I prefer HA-1Amk2. 

Again, this is my subjective take between two Cayin products.  I hope that offer some insight but please be remind that I am a salesman.


----------



## Sound Eq (Feb 28, 2018)

Andykong said:


> Let me put it this way, I prefer HA-1AMK2 with HD800S, but for HiFiman Edition X, iHA-6 is a better choice to my ear.  Unfortunately I haven't try LCD-MX4 with Cayin's gears, so I not 100% sure with that, but with LCD3 and LCD4, I prefer HA-1Amk2.
> 
> Again, this is my subjective take between two Cayin products.  I hope that offer some insight but please be remind that I am a salesman.



can i ask please, I love AK dacs compared to sabre, which is what u have in idac-6, so can I assume that ur dac does not have the cold analytical sound as some sabre dacs have

I have lcd x so I don't want to add anything that can turn it more neutral or analytical


----------



## Andykong

Sound Eq said:


> can i ask please, I love AK dacs compared to sabre, which is what u have in idac-6, so can I assume that ur dac does not have the cold analytical sound as some sabre dacs have
> 
> I have lcd x so I don't want to add anything that can turn it more neutral or analytical



The iDAC-6 has a tube buffer, it definitely is not a bring or cold sounding DAC.  On the other hand,  Sabre based DAC can be warm and musical if implemented correctly.  Our N5ii DAP use ESS9018K2m and a lot of reviewer comment that the DAP didn't sound like a Sabre based device to them because it is neither bright nor harsh, it probably is on the cold side when compare to other Cayin DAP but its musical and can listen to long hours.  

One of the competitive edge of iDAC-6 is the flexibility on tonal characteristic, with two choice of output buffer and five digital filters, the iDAC-6 offers upto 10 variation on tonal characteristic, you'll likely find the sound signature you preferred among these choice.


----------



## iceanddice (Feb 28, 2018)

Andykong said:


> Let me put it this way, I prefer HA-1AMK2 with HD800S, but for HiFiman Edition X, iHA-6 is a better choice to my ear.  Unfortunately I haven't try LCD-MX4 with Cayin's gears, so I not 100% sure with that, but with LCD3 and LCD4, I prefer HA-1Amk2.
> 
> Again, this is my subjective take between two Cayin products.  I hope that offer some insight but please be remind that I am a salesman.



Yeah, it’s really new also so it’s hard to make preferences. Given that the mx-4 deviates a bit from the typical Audeze house sound, i’m about to get the mx4’s soon and il try to make as good impressions as I can with all the sources I have — Mojo, n5ii, iha-6 and wm1a.


----------



## marcussmj

@Andykong  may I ask where can I obtain this in Malaysia? Can I purchase this directly off you?


----------



## bunkbail

marcussmj said:


> @Andykong  may I ask where can I obtain this in Malaysia? Can I purchase this directly off you?


IIRC Stars Picker have them at their store the last time I went there. You should try asking them about it.


----------



## bunkbail (Mar 17, 2018)

EDIT: I asked a very noob question, I should be ashamed of myself. Disregard this post.


----------



## alphanumerix1 (May 28, 2018)

anyone have any thoughts after owning this amp for a while?


----------



## alphanumerix1

Also was the gold lion 12AU7 a recommended tube roll? 

And to leave the other tubes with stock?


----------



## project86

I'm still quite fond of this amp. Use it quite a bit with HD6XX and HD800, but also sometimes Audeze and HiFiMAN planars. It does a good job with all of them. I also sometims use it as a dedicated preamp in a speaker-based setup, where it does a fantastic job. No remote.... but if you can deal with that, the results really are exceptional. 

Yes, Gold Lions should work for the 12AU7, you can leave the others stock for now. Eventually you might want to try rolling EL34 but that's not necessary right away.


----------



## alphanumerix1

project86 said:


> I'm still quite fond of this amp. Use it quite a bit with HD6XX and HD800, but also sometimes Audeze and HiFiMAN planars. It does a good job with all of them. I also sometims use it as a dedicated preamp in a speaker-based setup, where it does a fantastic job. No remote.... but if you can deal with that, the results really are exceptional.
> 
> Yes, Gold Lions should work for the 12AU7, you can leave the others stock for now. Eventually you might want to try rolling EL34 but that's not necessary right away.



Cheers for the reply.


----------



## KC-130

alphanumerix1 said:


> anyone have any thoughts after owning this amp for a while?


I've owned the MK2 for a couple of months and, to exercise some hyperbole, I've yet to pick my jaw up off the floor.
I ask friends to blindly compare my Cavalli, Woo, and MK2.  The moment they hear the MK2 their expressions say they've received a special gift.
Some have even given it a hug and asked to take it home with them.

My preference for connecting the MK2 is with my Elears... so much that I will likely sell my LCD-2f.
I also connected the MK2 with my K7XX, and HE-560 before I sold them.  To my tastes, none of my digital or analog arsenal of inputs could aid the 560's.

The first thing I noticed about the MK2 was what I wasn't able to hear... no hiss, no hum, no pop... nada, zip, zilch.
That's a remarkable comment to make about an out-of-the-box tube dependent amp.  Every time I power it on I expect for reality to set in with a flurry of rabbit-ear-antenna-like static. To date, no background noise whatsoever.

Typically, when I first sample a new tube amp my initial though is "hmm, that's an interesting take on tube acoustics".
One of my usual sampling favorites is Bill Frissel's jazzy version of "Surfer Girl" and the MK2 delivered an unforgettable immersion into the steel-bending artistry of jazz guitar.  It creates the sense that every note has been hand-crafted especially for you.  The same tune played on my Woo left me saying, "meh".
The one word that repeatedly comes to mind in describing the MK2 is "Live".  Every tune I sampled had the unmistakable essence of a Live performance.  Not so much due to the intimate soundstage that was created but because the tonal aura seemed to continue on beyond my ears instead of terminating inside my head.  The sound was being physically animated to an extent that I could see the very tunes I was hearing.  Psychiatrist refer to it as "hallucinating".  Whatever it is, I'm glad I found it.

On the mechanical side, the MK2 is capable of a threatening amount of power.  I'm unable to twist the pot past 9 o'clock without removing my headpiece.
I can't say much about attack and decay.  My ears just aren't specialized enough to detect those things.
However, the components do get very warm but only the top of the unit is hot to the touch, that I can attest to.
The styling of this unit has to been experienced in person.  The photos of it are great but sitting in front of it, staring it eye-to-eye, you get the feeling you're in the presence of something far more than just electro-mechanical.  Peering through the porthole on the front of the MK2 is akin to watching an aquarium.  Whatever they put into those tubes creates something supernatural visually... and audibly.


----------



## alphanumerix1 (Jun 7, 2018)

KC-130 said:


> I've owned the MK2 for a couple of months and, to exercise some hyperbole, I've yet to pick my jaw up off the floor.
> I ask friends to blindly compare my Cavalli, Woo, and MK2.  The moment they hear the MK2 their expressions say they've received a special gift.
> Some have even given it a hug and asked to take it home with them.
> 
> ...



cheers for your impressions its good to see someone enjoying this amp as much as you are.

Are these impressions all with the stock tubes?

I'd assume the hd600 should pair well.

Edit: I just pulled the trigger should arrive in a week or so. My next cans will be the hd800 or t1 so hopefully they pair well aswell.


----------



## KC-130

alphanumerix1 said:


> cheers for your impressions its good to see someone enjoying this amp as much as you are.
> 
> Are these impressions all with the stock tubes?
> 
> ...


Glad to hear you're on board with the MK2 !  
It's a rewarding purchase and the only one I've made in some time that will have staying power.
I'm hoping it turns into an heirloom if I don't completely wear it out.

I've used all stock tubes thus far.  
I'm still in the honeymoon phase and will wait for a few months to swap her tubes.  Unless she gives me a reason to do so earlier.

I have yet to ever listen to the HD800.  If you have a favorable review of them with the MK2 I will likely jump into a used pair.

Are you planning on using a tonal balancer (or separate Eq) with the HD800 ?

I had an unfavorable experience with the HE-560's and probably should have held on to them and connected a Loki, or similar balancer, to them.


----------



## KC-130

Meet Cayin & the little ladies.


----------



## KC-130

I removed the shell to re-align the tubes.



Prior to purchasing, I asked the dealer if the structural problems has been solved.  They said yes.
I'm only speculating but It looks as if the heavy components on the lower section have now been screwed to the frame to prevent the components from bouncing during shipping.  My unit has perfectly square corners and was triple-boxed for shipping.
Now, to re-assemble it to make sure it still works.​


----------



## alphanumerix1

KC-130 said:


> Glad to hear you're on board with the MK2 !
> It's a rewarding purchase and the only one I've made in some time that will have staying power.
> I'm hoping it turns into an heirloom if I don't completely wear it out.
> 
> ...



Will see how the hd800 sounds before making any equipment adjustments. Although that isn't really my realm. I've been using sonarworks profiles for that with varying degrees of enjoyment.

Good sub 1k tube amps are hard to come by but the impressions ive seen have been all favourable. I did order some gold lion 12au7 tubes on the recommendations in the thread. Either way I look forward to receiving the unit and having a play.


----------



## KC-130

alphanumerix1 said:


> cheers for your impressions its good to see someone enjoying this amp as much as you are.
> 
> Are these impressions all with the stock tubes?
> 
> ...


Have you received your new Cayin Amp yet and developed your impressions ?


----------



## Pictograms

I have just ordered this amp and now I’m doing some reaserch on tubes.
Has anyone tried the Psvane 12au7-TII? 
It seems to be very well regarded.


----------



## Orang_sabar

Have anyone did A-B testing between this Amp with WA6SE or Hugo 2?

Which will be the perfect match for Odin?


----------



## KC-130

I currently have the Hugo 2 connected to the Cayin HA-1A MK2 [Photo].
The Cayin amp is, to my ears, a substantial improvement over the internal amp of the Hugo 2.
You can read my impressions of the amp (above).
The Hugo 2 does provide a remarkable amp in a portable device but it's no match for the flavor added by the Cayin (double-entendre intended).
I did *not* perform a controlled-environment comparison test or even an A/B per se.  I just listened to a several full albums using the Hugo 2 alone and then the same albums with the Hugo 2 as a DAC only and the Cayin as the Amp, which is an outstanding setup.

The only Woo products I've compared the Cayin against is the Fireflies.  The Hugo 2 - Cayin combination slayed the Fireflies from every angle.
I attribute much of that dominance to the inherent crossfeed present in the Hugo 2.  My ears do love some crossfeed.
I've tried to locate a pre-owned WA6 2nd Gen with no luck so far.  If I don't locate one in the next month or so I'll likely just buy a new one direct from Woo and add some commentary here for comparison.

As for the Odin pairing, I don't own any Kennerton headphones but I do have a pair of FA-011AE's.  But those are certainly not a comparative headpiece to the Odin.  I can say unequivocally that the Elear and LCD-2f pair with the Cayin at near perfection.  I own some music from live performances from events I attended in person.  I credit the Cayin Amp with doing things to that music the artist can only wish they could deliver in a live venue. 

In the for-what-its-worth department... the Chord Mojo+Poly is equally a favorite for me when combined with the Cayin.
Now, with that setup I do perform A/B against the Hugo 2 thanks to the dual RCA inputs on the Cayin.


----------



## KC-130

hmmm... not sure what just happened to my reply.  I wrote several paragraphs and it all got wiped out except for the first partial sentence.


----------



## Orang_sabar (Jul 5, 2018)

KC-130 said:


> hmmm... not sure what just happened to my reply.  I wrote several paragraphs and it all got wiped out except for the first partial sentence.



Please share your opinion. Thank you


----------



## Pictograms (Jul 5, 2018)

Spoiler



I currently have the Hugo 2 connected to the Cayin HA-1A MK2 [Photo].
The Cayin amp is, to my ears, a substantial improvement over the internal amp of the Hugo 2.
You can read my impressions of the amp (above).
The Hugo 2 does provide a remarkable amp in a portable device but it's no match for the flavor added by the Cayin (double-entendre intended).
I did not perform a controlled-environment comparison test or even an A/B per se. I just listened to a several full albums using the Hugo 2 alone and then the same albums with the Hugo 2 as a DAC only and the Cayin as the Amp, which is an outstanding setup.

The only Woo products I've compared the Cayin against is the Fireflies. The Hugo 2 - Cayin combination slayed the Fireflies from every angle.
I attribute much of that dominance to the inherent crossfeed present in the Hugo 2. My ears do love some crossfeed.
I've tried to locate a pre-owned WA6 2nd Gen with no luck so far. If I don't locate one in the next month or so I'll likely just buy a new one direct from Woo and add some commentary here for comparison.

As for the Odin pairing, I don't own any Kennerton headphones but I do have a pair of FA-011AE's. But those are certainly not a comparative headpiece to the Odin. I can say unequivocally that the Elear and LCD-2f pair with the Cayin at near perfection. I own some music from live performances from events I attended in person. I credit the Cayin Amp with doing things to that music the artist can only wish they could deliver in a live venue.

In the for-what-its-worth department... the Chord Mojo+Poly is equally a favorite for me when combined with the Cayin.
Now, with that setup I do perform A/B against the Hugo 2 thanks to the dual RCA inputs on the Cayin. 
View This Thread   
Unread Subscribed Threads


I don’t understand when I click edit I can read the whole quoted text but not when I post it


----------



## Pictograms

What the... that’s very weird... I just pasted it into a message


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## Pictograms (Jul 5, 2018)

It seems maybe Head-if is cutting off everythin after so many characters? I’ll try quoting.... hmmm no
Is it so many lines?
No it’s not that.
I’m very very very confused.
Very
Very
Very




Still working
Any one understand what’s going on?


> @KC-130
> I currently have the Hugo 2 connected to the Cayin HA-1A MK2 [Photo].
> The Cayin amp is, to my ears, a substantial improvement over the internal amp of the Hugo 2.
> You can read my impressions of the amp (above).
> ...


----------



## Pictograms (Jul 5, 2018)

Well KC-130 basically says the Chord and Cayin pair up is very good and they like the Hugo2 with the HA-1A flavour more than just the Hugo alone.
The mojo is also a good pair up.
But they have not have the Odin but the cayin matches up with the Elear and the LCD-2f “at near perfect”.


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## Orang_sabar

Thank you for the info @Pictograms 

Whit that quality, I wonder why HA1A were never been hyped


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## Pictograms

I’m not sure either. The Ha-1amk1 has quite the following I understand but I don’t think it ever made it to Head-Fi, not sure about the current mk2. But I can say that although it has been on my radar I never took a large interest in it for some reason... 
Well hopefully this time next week mine will be here and I will be able to give my impression with the Eikon


----------



## KC-130

Weird indeed.
You can see in the screenshot below that my original post was much longer than the just cut-off sentence.
I took the screenshot below from the results of the "My Content" selection of my profile.


----------



## project86

The original HA-1A had a thread around here, pretty long if I recall correctly. But that was a decade ago, not sure it is still accessible. 

The new model absolutely deserves more recognition than it gets. I think because the price is so reasonable, people don't pay attention. Weird how that works. If it was like 2 or 3x the price, I suspect it would be more well known.


----------



## Pictograms

KC-130 said:


> Weird indeed.
> You can see in the screenshot below that my original post was much longer than the just cut-off sentence.
> I took the screenshot below from the results of the "My Content" selection of my profile.


Haha it may just be me but your screen shot shows the same details as your post, you didn’t get told by a mod your post was inappropriate did you


----------



## Orang_sabar

KC-130 said:


> Weird indeed.
> You can see in the screenshot below that my original post was much longer than the just cut-off sentence.
> I took the screenshot below from the results of the "My Content" selection of my profile.



Still waiting for your "long sharing" @KC-130


----------



## KC-130

My comparative listening is not performed in a controlled environment.  My critical listening sessions focus on tuning the components to my liking rather than creating a repeatable set of events.  And by “liking” I’m referring to the transient mood that’s created by any particular device or piece of work.  The mood that’s created is not necessarily repeatable but nonetheless can still be compared to other moods in a subjective manner.

So, to provide some input to the discussion of combining the Hugo 2 with the Cayin; I find that using the Hugo 2 as a both a DAC and an Amp could satisfy my wants for music presentation for many years to come… if only I were not addicted to technology.  But, because I’m willing to try out new devices on a whim or hunch I decided to order the Cayin HA-1A MK2.  

I’ve connected the Cayin to a dozen different sources and the two stand-out favorites are the Chord Mojo and Hugo 2.  

When I listen to some new material I play it through the Mojo/Cayin, the Hugo 2/Cayin, and through the WA7d Fireflies.  I queue up the tracks and have the sources swapped, blind to me, until I’ve heard the new tracks on all 3 configurations.  Almost without exception, my preference is the Mojo / Cayin combination regardless of the genre being played.  That’s by no means a controlled test but it’s more than ample for my subjective listening.

Why does the Mojo / Caying combination excel every time.  For my ears, it’s the “Live” effect of the presentation.

Whether the material was recorded in a studio or concert event, if the result is that I feel placed at the location of the performance then my time has been well spent.  I attribute the bulk of that “Live” effect to the Cayin Amp.  Of all the sources and Amps I’ve auditioned, adding the Cayin Amp into the stream has by far had the most discernible impact.  

The Hugo 2 is a close 2nd place when used alone without the Cayin but there’s something vacant in the music… as though the instruments are not giving it their all.  I’ve tried many combinations of the Hugo 2 filter & crossfeed settings but it doesn’t quite hit that premium level of delivery I get when I add the Cayin Amp.

Comparing the Hugo 2 / Cayin to the Fireflies;  the Fireflies are outstanding at delivering material on almost every level.  I wouldn’t keep them around if I were not truly impressed with them but the Hugo 2 / Cayin combo slays the Fireflies in overall presentation.

When I play material through the Fireflies I use the Crossfeed Audio Unit plug-ins because the DAC in those beauties displays too much channel separation for my tastes.  Adjusting the crossfeed really makes the WA7 come alive.

I haven’t encountered any material played through the Hugo 2 / Cayin combo that needs the assistance of added crossfeed.

Again, a controlled environment is not a consideration for me.  I enjoy the surprise and revelation of new material being played through a configuration that doesn’t disappoint.  That’s exactly what the Hugo 2 / Cayin delivers.


----------



## Orang_sabar

Thank you @KC-130 for your sharing, comprehensive enough to make conclusion that modjo-ha1a mk2 is the best pair.

Hopefully they will be the best pair for Odin too


----------



## KC-130

I didn't get around to addressing your question about using the Cayin Amp with your Odin headphones.

I don't have a personal experience of pairing this Amp with the Odin and I would not want to speculate how the Odin would respond to it.
My overall experience with this Amp indicates that any headphones this Amp may be unable to drive would require an Amp developed especially for those headphones.  I may be mistaken but I recall that Cayin was displaying this Amp paired with the Odin at events within the past 6 months.  Ask your Audio Cayin dealer to verify that statement.

I can, however, attest to the Amp's ability to drive any headphone I currently own.  
The more popular one's on that list are:
AKG-K7XX
HD 6XX
HifiMan HE-560
Audeze LCD-2F
Audeze LCD-X
Focal Elear
FA-011AE (a wooden-cup headphone)

That's a good representation of the full-sized headphones in use today and the Hugo 2 / Cayin combination performs nothing less than stellar with all of them.
A pair of Focal Clear's will be delivered to me this week.   After a week or so of listening to the Clear's with the Cayin Amp, I'll document my experience in this thread.

Something of note is that the impedance selector on my Amp has just an imperceptible influence on the audible output.
In actual use, the only difference my ears perceive is when switching from the 8-32 ohm setting to the 33-64 ohm setting and even that is subtle.
All of the higher impedance settings had no noticeable effect on any of the headphones listed above.


----------



## Orang_sabar

Why you still keep listen to Hugo2-Cayin combo @KC-130 ? Eventough you still have mojo, the one you say have the best synergi with cayin.


----------



## KC-130

It's in the nature of a tech-junkie to experience and understand the nuances of many digital sources.
A few weeks ago I was served a less than tasty seafood dish at a favorite restaurant.  I still go back there for the veal.


----------



## Orang_sabar

A cool way of life @KC-130


----------



## Pictograms

So my HA-1A  came in, It sounds very very nice.
I do however have some level of noise floor. When I use ZMF Eikon it is barely audible with my Beyerdynamic T90 it is a little lower (that’s on the 8-32ohm setting) completly disappears as soon as music starts.
I’ll move the amp around my place to see if it’s interference and come back when I have more listening time


----------



## Pictograms

@KC-130 what impedance setting are you using? 
I will probably be sticking with the lowest.
Also you are right the mojo is a great pairing


----------



## Pictograms (Jul 14, 2018)

Well can’t sleep so I was playing with impedance and my T90s at 151-300ohm, any hiss disappears when the volume has reached 7o’clock... which is incedentally the same as when I hear music in both channels. The volume dial starts at about just before 7.
I’m going on a trip so I’ll see if I can snag some other tubes to try while I’m in the city.
Work has been crazy lately so I didn’t get as much time to listen before I leave on holiday.
Just looked at it again and probably closer to day volume dial starts at 7 and music starts just before 8

Edit. Probably should note that this doesn’t really tell you anything, except I am probably overtired


----------



## Orang_sabar

Pictograms said:


> @KC-130 what impedance setting are you using?
> I will probably be sticking with the lowest.
> Also you are right the mojo is a great pairing



Have you compare mojo with other DAC for ha1a?


----------



## KC-130

I use the 2nd & 3rd impedance settings (33-64ohm & 65-150ohm) but the difference is imperceptible to me regardless of the source.
I notice only a slight increase in gain when switching between the 1st & 2nd settings.
Lately, I'm switching between Elear's & Clear's so I'm using relatively low impedance full-sized headphones.
I have yet to try out the MKii with IEM's or anything lower than a 55 ohm spec.

The Mojo does pair superbly with the MKii and I've yet to hear even a hint of hum from the tubes.


----------



## KC-130

Pictograms said:


> Well can’t sleep so I was playing with impedance and my T90s at 151-300ohm, any hiss disappears when the volume has reached 7o’clock... which is incedentally the same as when I hear music in both channels. The volume dial starts at about just before 7.
> I’m going on a trip so I’ll see if I can snag some other tubes to try while I’m in the city.
> Work has been crazy lately so I didn’t get as much time to listen before I leave on holiday.
> Just looked at it again and probably closer to day volume dial starts at 7 and music starts just before 8
> ...


For reference to those who may not yet own the MKii, the lowest Volume setting is 6 o'clock.
The volume pot is smooth (no clicks) and Picto doesn't hear sound until 7 o'clock.

I'm still using stock tubes but I hear recognizable audio at the slightest movement away from the 6 o'clock Volume Off setting.
I would expect some subtle differences we're seeing between tube-based units regardless of the price.


----------



## KC-130

Orang_sabar said:


> Have you compare mojo with other DAC for ha1a?


Most definitely.  This isn't a complete list but some of them are:
The Topping D50 and NX4 which a friend brought over for testing.
I used the Fiio X5 iii, the Hugo 2 (still own it for now), and 10 others I have in a box which are similar to the Creative E5 & Fiio Alpen 2.
The RME ADI-2 is on my list of DACs to own.  They don't show up for re-sale very often and I suspect folks are holding onto them for a reason.


----------



## Pictograms

Sorry about being very confusing, when I’m back I will compare how much more volume you get at different Ohm settings, I am very surprised how much it increases(does that make sense? I feel I am bad at writing sensibly).

When I was talking about noise floor(hiss) I wasn’t saying there is a lot, its pretty much what I expected from a high power tube amp, I was more curious/surprised about @KC-130 not having any. I’m very interested in trying different tubes and seeing how much it changes both noise and tone.

I really did not get as much time as I wanted to listen before I have to leave, so I suspect I will be playing with the amp alot in a week.

@Orang_sabar I haven’t compared the mojo to any other DACs yet, however I have not liked the mojo through any other amps. I find with my O2 or Yamaha receiver the Mojo sounds very digital and I lose the soundstage depth/layering that I really like. The mojo with the HA-1A however maintains all of the qualities I like, as well as improving the tonality and it removes a strange smoothing over effect I find when I plug my Eikons into the Mojo directly.
Although I have found that I prefer the original Eikon pads with the HA-1A, previously I was always using the Autuer pads.

The T90s also benefit from the combo since the HA-1A takes away the sharp treble, when I use T90s with mojo directly I always use a little EQ, I have not been using any EQ with the new amp.


----------



## Orang_sabar

Thank you for your sharing @KC-130 @Pictograms


----------



## Orang_sabar

Finally my ha-1a mk2 has arrived.
The review in headfonia and this thread really spot on. I really like it


----------



## Andykong (Jul 22, 2018)

Orang_sabar said:


> Finally my ha-1a mk2 has arrived.
> The review in headfonia and this thread really spot on. I really like it



Glad you like the HA-1Amk2, please show us you setup later and share more impression with different headphones, the HA-1AMK2 has a unique form factor, so it is always interesting to observe how it integrates into different system.

John Grandberg (aka Project86) has published a full HA-1AMK2 review on Part-time Audiophile and you can read it here.
 Lieven from Headfonia has a HA-1AMK2 and has mentioned it in various headphone reviews (the Kennerton Odin, DT1770PRO/DT1990PRO, ...) , but I didn't recall a HA-1AMK2 review in the Headfonia site, did I miss something?


----------



## Orang_sabar (Jul 22, 2018)

Andykong said:


> Glad you like the HA-1Amk2, please show us you setup later and share more impression with different headphones, the HA-1AMK2 has a unique form factor, so it is always interesting to observe how it integrates into different system.
> 
> John Grandberg (aka Project86) has published a full HA-1AMK2 review on Part-time Audiophile and you can read it here.
> Lieven from Headfonia has a HA-1AMK2 and has mentioned it in various headphone reviews, but I didn't recall a HA-1AMK2 review in the Headfonia site, did I miss something?



I mean, Lieven has mentioned it in Odin review.


----------



## Andykong

Pictograms said:


> So my HA-1A  came in, It sounds very very nice.
> I do however have some level of noise floor. When I use ZMF Eikon it is barely audible with my Beyerdynamic T90 it is a little lower (that’s on the 8-32ohm setting) completly disappears as soon as music starts.
> I’ll move the amp around my place to see if it’s interference and come back when I have more listening time





Pictograms said:


> Sorry about being very confusing, when I’m back I will compare how much more volume you get at different Ohm settings, I am very surprised how much it increases(does that make sense? I feel I am bad at writing sensibly).
> 
> When I was talking about noise floor(hiss) I wasn’t saying there is a lot, its pretty much what I expected from a high power tube amp, I was more curious/surprised about @KC-130 not having any. I’m very interested in trying different tubes and seeing how much it changes both noise and tone.
> 
> ...



Changing the driver tube can lower the noise floor, I used Gold Lion in my HA-1AMK2 and it is darker and quieter then the stock 12AU7.


 

I have tried the Gold Lion EL84 as well, the improvement is not as obvious as changing the 12AU7.

I am very interested in the Eikon + HA-1Amk2 combination, you mentioned you prefer the original Eikon pads over the Autuer pad with the HA-1A, can you tell me the different?   I was considering getting a pair of Atticus or Eikon  for personal use but is torn between the two, so any input will be much appreciated.


----------



## Orang_sabar

Andykong said:


> Changing the driver tube can lower the noise floor, I used Gold Lion in my HA-1AMK2 and it is darker and quieter then the stock 12AU7.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice. 
I also plan to change my 12au7 to bugle boy. I am new in tube desktop amp. I am surprised that Tube price can be expensive


----------



## Pictograms

Spoiler: Andykong, post: 14374418, member: 381684



Changing the driver tube can lower the noise floor, I used Gold Lion in my HA-1AMK2 and it is darker and quieter then the stock 12AU7.



I have tried the Gold Lion EL84 as well, the improvement is not as obvious as changing the 12AU7.

I am very interested in the Eikon + HA-1Amk2 combination, you mentioned you prefer the original Eikon pads over the Autuer pad with the HA-1A, can you tell me the different?   I was considering getting a pair of Atticus or Eikon  for personal use but is torn between the two, so any input will be much appreciated.



I’m still on my trip but I was driving by TheTubeStore so stopped in and ended up leaving with 2 sets of driver tubes(1 pair new tungsol, 1 pair NOS  JAN-Philips 5814) and 1 set of power tubes (preferred series, it’s Old Russian stuff) I’m very excited to get home and try, although I am nervous about the flight home we will see if everything is intact when I arrive...

I won’t go into to much detail since they are not with me, but the Eikon pads have more bass than the Auture so the Eikon with the stock pads ends up being a little warm with strong subbase. 
With the Auture pads it comes closer to neutral with nice subbase. 
I normally have the Auture pads on for using with my receiver and was surprised I like the more warm with the HA-1A. We will see if it changes with new tubes.

The Atticus doesn’t have as much sub base but has more midbase and a little more reverb/decay very romantic and relaxing. I don’t know how different it is with other pads


----------



## KC-130

I'm pleased to hear that no one else has found a need to use an EQ with the MKii.
My ears are not the acoustic receivers they once were and my taste in music probably differs substantially from others.
A quiet set of tubes is just luck of the draw but I've yet to hear even a hint of a hum or hiss.  If I ever do, it will be of no consequence because I plan on rolling some other tubes for variation at some point anyway.

Have you guys noticed any discernible difference between the Impedance Settings yet ?


----------



## Pictograms

I found a difference in the amount of bass when using the impedance, mainly noticeable with my t-90 higher setting was more bass. But it probably has more to do with the impedance curve of headphones. 
One thing I do wonder though, is the setting of the dial the output impendnce or the level of headphones you can match it to? I assume it’s the    Output that meshes with headphones of that level.
Anyone know?


----------



## KC-130

Since the Impedance settings are listed in ranges  (8-32, 33-64, etc) it refers to the expected impedance level of the headphones.
The Amp will deliver increased power to overcome the "expected" higher impedance levels as the range selection is increased.


----------



## Orang_sabar

Hi all, especially @Andykong ,
The store where I buy this amp, didn't give me warranty letter from Cayin. Anybody have same experience? Is it oke?


----------



## KC-130

I did not receive a warranty card but the dealer has a record of my purchase.
The dealer record was sufficient for other manufacturers I've dealt with.


----------



## Pictograms

Well I’m back and incase anyone is curious airport security did not even blink at the Vacuum tubes I had in my carry on.
I’ve been listening all morning to HA1A stock and the first thing I knowticed is the noise fooor is lower than I remember with the T90s.
I have now switched out the powetubes to the Tube Stores preferred series, I do not notice any tonal changes the only thing I knotice is the separation is better, maybe the soundstage is larger?


----------



## Orang_sabar

KC-130 said:


> I did not receive a warranty card but the dealer has a record of my purchase.
> The dealer record was sufficient for other manufacturers I've dealt with.


Thank you for your info


----------



## KC-130

Pictograms said:


> Well I’m back and incase anyone is curious airport security did not even blink at the Vacuum tubes I had in my carry on.
> I’ve been listening all morning to HA1A stock and the first thing I knowticed is the noise fooor is lower than I remember with the T90s.
> I have now switched out the powetubes to the Tube Stores preferred series, I do not notice any tonal changes the only thing I knotice is the separation is better, maybe the soundstage is larger?


Wow, you were brave to take the tubes as carry-on.
I would have expected them to be confiscated.
Did TSA even recognize them as being tubes ?


----------



## Pictograms

KC-130 said:


> Wow, you were brave to take the tubes as carry-on.
> I would have expected them to be confiscated.
> Did TSA even recognize them as being tubes ?


They didn’t mention anything about them, I went early so I could check my bags if need be. But my bags were through the screening before I was even able to walk though the metal detector 100% problem free


----------



## KC-130

Pictograms said:


> Well I’m back and incase anyone is curious airport security did not even blink at the Vacuum tubes I had in my carry on.
> I’ve been listening all morning to HA1A stock and the first thing I knowticed is the noise fooor is lower than I remember with the T90s.
> I have now switched out the powetubes to the Tube Stores preferred series, I do not notice any tonal changes the only thing I knotice is the separation is better, maybe the soundstage is larger?


Are you running the Amp for a few hours at a time to break-in your new tubes ?
I usually just listen for one or two tracks when I get NOS tubes and then run the Amp unattended for a few hours, let it cool down... then wash, rinse, repeat.
Some prefer to let their Amp run for 2 days continuously but I favor an incremental approach.


----------



## Pictograms (Jul 25, 2018)

KC-130 said:


> Are you running the Amp for a few hours at a time to break-in your new tubes ?
> I usually just listen for one or two tracks when I get NOS tubes and then run the Amp unattended for a few hours, let it cool down... then wash, rinse, repeat.
> Some prefer to let their Amp run for 2 days continuously but I favor an incremental approach.


I’m just running it for several hours to break the tubes in, so yeasterday I switched to the Tung Sol 12au7 but I haven’t actually listened yet just had the amp running most of yeasterday. Hopefully by now the Only two sets of new tubes are broken in enough for me to test


----------



## Orang_sabar

Hi all,

I've test the impedance selector effect to headphone sound.
I conducted the test using kennerton odin.
Odin have 35 ohm impedance.
My conclusion is the best impedence stage for Odin is 33-64 ohm. 
When using 6-32 ohm, every instrument and vocal doesn't have enough body, but the soundstage is wider.
When using 65-150 ohm, every instrument and vocal have more impact, but the sound kinda disort and the soundstage is smaller.


----------



## KC-130

Pictograms said:


> I’m just running it for several hours to break the tubes in, so yeasterday I switched to the Tung Sol 12au7 but I haven’t actually listened yet just had the amp running most of yeasterday. Hopefully by now the Only two sets of new tubes are broken in enough for me to test


When I first installed a rectifier Princess 274B in my WA6SE I didn't notice even a hint of difference... and that's not an inexpensive tube.
It wasn't until I changed the driver tubes that I began to noticeable an appreciable variation.
I've yet to try new tubes in my MKii because I'm hooked on the stock sound... but I will roll new tubes at some point.


----------



## Pictograms

The Tong sol tubes are quite nice, they add more sparkle to the too end and have tighter bass.
They do have a slightly annoying and fairly continuous crackle pop at about the noise floor. I’m assuming that it has something to do with being a new tube but don’t really know and since I swear it is obvious now then when I first plugged them in I am curious if it will disappear with more burn in.


----------



## Andykong

Orang_sabar said:


> Nice.
> I also plan to change my 12au7 to bugle boy. I am new in tube desktop amp. I am surprised that Tube price can be expensive



That's supply and demand, if you go for discontinued tube, the range might vary from $10 to $500 (per matched pair) and the determining factor is more related to availability than strictly audio performance.  That's why I recommend a tube that is currently in production: when availability is not a problem, the price of tube will be stable and affordable.


----------



## Andykong

Pictograms said:


> Spoiler: Andykong, post: 14374418, member: 381684
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Pictograms said:


> Well I’m back and incase anyone is curious airport security did not even blink at the Vacuum tubes I had in my carry on.
> I’ve been listening all morning to HA1A stock and the first thing I knowticed is the noise fooor is lower than I remember with the T90s.
> I have now switched out the powetubes to the Tube Stores preferred series, I do not notice any tonal changes the only thing I knotice is the separation is better, maybe the soundstage is larger?



When you roll your tubes in HA-1Amk2,  the driver tubes (12AU7) play a big part in the audio signature (tone, timbre, background noise, ...) while the power tube (EL84) will change the driving capability (gain, control, transient,, ....) etc.   Normally we recommend users to roll the driver tube first, and then proceed to power tube.


----------



## Andykong

KC-130 said:


> I'm pleased to hear that no one else has found a need to use an EQ with the MKii.
> My ears are not the acoustic receivers they once were and my taste in music probably differs substantially from others.
> A quiet set of tubes is just luck of the draw but I've yet to hear even a hint of a hum or hiss.  If I ever do, it will be of no consequence because I plan on rolling some other tubes for variation at some point anyway.
> 
> Have you guys noticed any discernible difference between the Impedance Settings yet ?





KC-130 said:


> Since the Impedance settings are listed in ranges  (8-32, 33-64, etc) it refers to the expected impedance level of the headphones.
> The Amp will deliver increased power to overcome the "expected" higher impedance levels as the range selection is increased.



The amplifier does not increase the power because of your impedance setting, the main purpose is to enhance impedance matching.

You can read the  general concept of impedance matching here, and I shall quote the *Loudspeaker amplifiers *paragraphs below for our discussion:


> Typical push–pull audio tube power amplifier, matched to loudspeaker with an impedance-matching transformer
> Audio amplifiers typically do not match impedances, but provide an output impedance that is lower than the load impedance (such as < 0.1 ohm in typical semiconductor amplifiers), for improved speaker damping. For vacuum tube amplifiers, impedance-changing transformers are often used to get a low output impedance, and to better match the amplifier's performance to the load impedance. Some tube amplifiers have output transformer taps to adapt the amplifier output to typical loudspeaker impedances.
> 
> The output transformer in vacuum-tube-based amplifiers has two basic functions:
> ...


Be reminded that HA-1Amk2 used EL84 which is a pentodes tube. 

To evaluate speaker damping, we can consider the damping factor your audio system.  This is the ratio of the rated impedance of the loudspeaker or headphone to the source impedance, and the common practice is to maintain a minimum of 1:5 ratio. A higher damping factor will tighten up the bass and control the diaphragm of the speaker/headphone more accurately.  Some users prefers to 1:8 or 1:10, and I have seen users who prefer "as high as possible" for damping factor (which I feel uncomfortable with, especially with tube amplifier as the bass will become too flat and less lively.  A probably matched amplifier/speaker will also provide excellent dispersion and frequency extension.

So it is important to match the amplifier output to loading impedance for tube amplifier.  Since most, if not all, modern speakers are rated at either 4 ohms or 8 ohms, the variety is not significantly so the impedance matching is not that important, in the good old days when we have 16 ohm speakers, connecting the speaker to the correct impedance tab is important.

Headphones, on the other hand, have a much wider range of impedance rating: from 8 Ohms to 600 Ohms in current market, so getting the impedance matching right becomes important.  Since Cayin design and build our own transformers, so its fairly straightforward to offer multiple output impedance from the amplifier, but this is not an easy task for those who didn't make their own output transformers.

Last but not least, the impedance rating of dynamic headphones are either nominal rating or specific rating at 1kHz, the actual impedance might be fluctuate up and down over a range, and if you are using a high impedance dynamic cans, the range can be quite significant, so the implication of impedance matching varied a lot.  On the other hand, planar headphones are fixed impedance based, so they are more sensitive to output impedance of the amplifier.   In other word, if you want to test the implication of the impedance matching feature of HA-1Amk2 amplifier, maybe you can use a pair of Planar headphone and select music with prominent bass.  @Orang_sabar use Odin to test the impedance selector and Odin is a planar headphone with excellent bass slam, so he has a good start in the test.


----------



## KC-130

Andykong said:


> The amplifier does not increase the power because of your impedance setting, the main purpose is to enhance impedance matching.
> 
> You can read the  general concept of impedance matching here, and I shall quote the *Loudspeaker amplifiers *paragraphs below for our discussion:
> 
> ...


So. you're stating that the MK2 is able to change its output impedance without any change in either voltage or current ?
P = IV


----------



## Pictograms

Andykong said:


> When you roll your tubes in HA-1Amk2,  the driver tubes (12AU7) play a big part in the audio signature (tone, timbre, background noise, ...) while the power tube (EL84) will change the driving capability (gain, control, transient,, ....) etc.   Normally we recommend users to roll the driver tube first, and then proceed to power tube.


Thank you for pointing that out, that’s why I ended up trying the EL8s first, I’m very happy with the stock Timber and Tone... I just got to excited about tube rolling to leave the driver tubes alone for long...
This is my first time playing with tubes.
Maybe I’ll switch the power tubes back to understand the driver tubes changes better


----------



## Pictograms

Does anyone know if some tubes are more sensitive to electrical noise or other interference than others? 
I am back to stock powertubes to test out my other driver tubes and decided to try may Jan philips tubes and they have about the same level of popping and clicking as the tung sol. It sounds a lot like RF interference or some kind of electrical noise. No clicking with the stock Cayin tubes. 

No time tonight to try moving the amp around, so thought I would check


----------



## Orang_sabar (Jul 29, 2018)

Andykong said:


> When you roll your tubes in HA-1Amk2,  the driver tubes (12AU7) play a big part in the audio signature (tone, timbre, background noise, ...) while the power tube (EL84) will change the driving capability (gain, control, transient,, ....) etc.   Normally we recommend users to roll the driver tube first, and then proceed to power tube.



Yes!!!
I have changed the stock 12au7 to 12au7 phillips holland. And the result is really pleasing. The phillips increase mkii soundstage and make vocals more pleasing.

I have also try to change the standar EL84 to el84m sovtex. The sovtex really increase impact in bass and sub bass. It make the mkii like SS amp 

The ha1a mkii is a versatile amp


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## Pictograms

Yep, the RF noise I was hearing was the WiFi once I moved the amp or unplug the wifi it completly disappears.
I am also finally experiencing the drop in noise floor from tube rolling.
 I am currently listening with UM Maestro V2 and it sounds fantastic, great pairing with the Jan Phillips tubes.
The Jan Phillips are very similar to the Tung Sol i can’t figure out what the difference is but I like it more somehow...


----------



## Andykong

KC-130 said:


> So. you're stating that the MK2 is able to change its output impedance without any change in either voltage or current ?
> P = IV




This is kind of complicated, the technical vocab is beyond my daily English, I'll see if I can explain it correctly.  

There is one fundamental different between a tube amplifier and a Solid State amplifier.  Tube amplifier is a constant impedance amplifier, this type of amplifier treat the loading as a constant impedance device, that's why impedance matching is important in tube amplifier design but this is a non-issue with Solid State amplifier.  That's why traditional tube amplifier will have speaker terminals for 4Ω, 8Ω, and 16Ω loading.  If impedance matching is important to speakers between 4Ω to 16Ω, dealing with headphones from 8Ω to 600Ω is even more important.







So the reason to implement impedance matching is to handle the fixed impedance nature of tube amplifier, not to compensate the power required for high impedance headphone.

Now, let's take a look at the Power rating of HA-1Amk2:

32Ω:   1400mW+1400mW
64Ω:   850mW+850mW
150Ω: 1200mW+1200mW 
300Ω:  2000mW+2000mW
600Ω:  2200mW+2200mW

Now let's compare this with the power rating of iHA-6.  I have selected low current mode of Balanced output as reference:

32Ω:   7000mW+7000mW
64Ω:   5800mW+5800mW
150Ω: 3000mW+3000mW 
300Ω:  1200mW+1200mW
600Ω:  600mW+600mW

The rated output of solid state amplifier is inversely proportional to the impedance loading, and it is kind of linear, so as the impedance loading increase, the power rating decrease, that's why Solid State users naturally think that somehow higher impedance loading is difficult and they need a higher power to "compensate" the "decreasing" output of the amplifier.

The rated output of transformer-coupled tube amplifier is very different, it is not linear, and it won't decrease as the impedance loading increase. At 32Ω loading, iHA-6 delivers 5 times more power then HA-1Amk2, but at 600Ω loading, HA-1Amk2 delivers 3.5 times more power then iHA-6.  In other word,  there is no need to "overcome" the higher impedance loading with HA-1Amk2 through a impedance matching mechanism, HA-1Amk2 simply has more then enough power when driving a high impedance load.


----------



## Andykong

Pictograms said:


> Thank you for pointing that out, that’s why I ended up trying the EL8s first, I’m very happy with the stock Timber and Tone... I just got to excited about tube rolling to leave the driver tubes alone for long...
> This is my first time playing with tubes.
> Maybe I’ll switch the power tubes back to understand the driver tubes changes better



If you are doing this for fun, use a highly transparent headphone (e.g., HD800 or T1) as monitor when you roll the driver tubes, and use a demanding planar headphone (e.g., HE6) when you roll the power tubes.


----------



## Rayzilla

I didn't want to start a new thread for the MK1 version of this amp, but I would love to hear any comments about it. It's been sitting on the stand for a while and not being used. It's all in stock form right now. Thanks.


----------



## KC-130

_----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, let's take a look at the Power rating of HA-1Amk2:

32Ω: 1400mW+1400mW
64Ω: 850mW+850mW_
_150Ω: 1200mW+1200mW _ <------ Increase in Power Output
_300Ω: 2000mW+2000mW   _<------ Increase in Power Output
_600Ω: 2200mW+2200mW_ <------ Increase in Power Output
_----------------------------------------------------------------------------------_
So isn't it accurate to say that the MK2 increases the Power Output as the "Selected Impedance" is increased using the selector dial ?
It makes perfect sense to me that the MK2 is performing "Impedance Matching" but the result is still an Increase in Power Output.


----------



## Andykong (Aug 3, 2018)

KC-130 said:


> _----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Now, let's take a look at the Power rating of HA-1Amk2:
> 
> 32Ω: 1400mW+1400mW
> ...



But when you turn the switch from 32ohm to 64ohm, the power decrease.  The power rating curve is not a liner curve, we just take some convenient impedance settings to provide a easy-to-use impedance selection system to users.  To illustrate the concept, if we provide more impedance matching point between 300 Ohm and 600 Ohm,  the figures will go up and down within a narrow range, it is NOT increasing in proportion to impedance loading.

Never mind, I have clarify our design, it is up to customer to use and explore the amplifier.


----------



## Orang_sabar (Aug 3, 2018)

Andykong said:


> But when you turn the switch from 32ohm to 64ohm, the power decrease.  The power rating curve is not a liner curve, we just take some convenient measurements to provide a reference to users.  For example, If we provide more impedance matching point between 300 Ohm and 600 Ohm,  the figures will go up and down within a narrow range, it is NOT increasing in proportion to impedance loading.
> 
> Never mind, I have clarify our design, it is up to customer to use and explore the amplifier.



I think your explanation is enough.
The most important thing is how mk2 effect headphone sound.
In terms of power, if mk2 can handle HE-6 well, it can handle most of headphone out there


----------



## talmadge

My MK2 arrives on Tuesday, really looking forward to it. Already have the idc 6 and aha 6.


----------



## Pictograms

This thread is becoming even more lively! 
I recently switched my powertubes back to my new ones I wish I had a hard to drive planar like Andy suggested but still feel that it has improved separation


----------



## kushanukum

="talmadge, post: 14402741, member: 490701"]My MK2 arrives on Tuesday, really looking forward to it. Already have the idc 6 and aha 6.[/QU


----------



## kushanukum

Mine arves today, my first venture in tube amps.


----------



## Andykong

Rayzilla said:


> I didn't want to start a new thread for the MK1 version of this amp, but I would love to hear any comments about it. It's been sitting on the stand for a while and not being used. It's all in stock form right now. Thanks.



I heard the HA-1A briefly back in 2014 in a headfi meet, that was the first time I get to know Cayin personally.  I honestly didn't recall any detail regarding the audio performance of the HA-1A as I didn't know it was a classic product at that time but I can quote the impression from trusted source for your reference.

The original HA-1A  was a small powered speaker amplifier with pre-amp and headphone output launched back in 2005. It was reviewed by Sam Tellig & Wes Phillips (Stereophile, Vol.29 Nos.6 & 11, June & November 2006), primarily as a headphone amplifier, and was listed on Stereophile Recommended Component (Class B) till 2011. I have extracted the description from Stereophile recommended components for your reference:


> While first and foremost a headphone amplifier, the HA-1A can also serve as a line-stage preamp with a single pair of inputs, or as a fl ea-watt integrated tube amp offering 1.2Wpc in single-ended triode mode or 2.2W in ultralinear operation. The Cayin provided the SET experience, sounding immediate, intimate, and alive while expanding the soundstage to float beyond the listener’s headspace. "*The HA-1A may be the best thing that ever happened to headphones,*" raved ST, though he finally decides that high Class B is a where the Cayin rightfully belongs. WP compared the HA-1A to HeadRoom’s Desktop/Home. While the Cayin provided a tube three-dimensionality that the HeadRoom lacked, it couldn’t match the Home’s bottom-end definition. Compared with the Vincent KHV-1pre, the Cayin offered greater warmth and three-dimensionality, said WP. (Vol.29 Nos.6 & 11, Vol.31 No.11 WWW)



Our thread starter  John Grandberg has also mentioned HA-1A briefly in his HA-1MK2 review: 


> Technically it was a speaker amp, too, though hardly anyone seemed to use that function — after all, there aren’t many speakers out there happily driven with 1.2 watts per channel. Most of us just remember the HA-1A as an enjoyable headphone amp.
> 
> With a rich, tuneful valve sound that didn’t go overboard into mushy tube bloom, the HA-1A stood out in a field of forward-sounding solid-state designs shooting for brutal accuracy. If your point of reference involved listening via the headphone jack on your new-at-the-time Benchmark DAC 1, the HA-1A was quite simply a revelation in musicality.


----------



## Andykong (Aug 6, 2018)

talmadge said:


> My MK2 arrives on Tuesday, really looking forward to it. Already have the idc 6 and aha 6.



You mean "today"? Interesting, we are looking forward to your first impression. 

By the way, the iDAP-6 is waving to you:






Source of photo:  CanJam Singapore 2018 album at Cayin Facebook



kushanukum said:


> Mine arves today, my first venture in tube amps.



Wow, two HA-1Amk2 open box on the same week?  This is exciting, I didn't recall we are "that" busy in this thread ever.  Again, show us some picture and tell us what you feel about your ice-breaking experience with tube amp.


----------



## Andykong

Orang_sabar said:


> I think your explanation is enough.
> The most important thing is how mk2 effect headphone sound.
> In terms of power, if mk2 can handle HE-6 well, it can handle most of headphone out there



Thank you.

The HA-1Amk2 can handle HE-6 pretty well, I have more then enough sound pressure at around 2 o'clock volume mark, not as tight and articulated as the iHA-6 but the mid-range and vocal is  beautiful.



Pictograms said:


> This thread is becoming even more lively!
> I recently switched my powertubes back to my new ones I wish I had a hard to drive planar like Andy suggested but still feel that it has improved separation



I get my HE6 from a headphone shop when they sold their ex-demo unit at ~$500, I waited till the best moment (when HE1000 was round the corner), but you need a lot of patient before good deals like this showed up.  I have seen LCD2 and Alpha Prime at around the same price in the for sale forum, these are aged but good sounding headphones, worth a serious consideration definitely.


----------



## Pictograms

This is probably a silly question but how does one upload pictures from your phone?


----------



## Andykong

Pictograms said:


> This is probably a silly question but how does one upload pictures from your phone?



At the bottom of the edit window, click "Upload a File"


----------



## Pictograms (Aug 7, 2018)

Andykong said:


> At the bottom of the edit window, click "Upload a File"


Wow... how have I never noticed that before.
Well I couldn’t get a good photo but I am finally getting to sit down with a nice mug of Pu’erh tea


----------



## Rayzilla

Andykong said:


> I heard the HA-1A briefly back in 2014 in a headfi meet, that was the first time I get to know Cayin personally.  I honestly didn't recall any detail regarding the audio performance of the HA-1A as I didn't know it was a classic product at that time but I can quote the impression from trusted source for your reference.
> 
> The original HA-1A  was a small powered speaker amplifier with pre-amp and headphone output launched back in 2005. It was reviewed by Sam Tellig & Wes Phillips (Stereophile, Vol.29 Nos.6 & 11, June & November 2006), primarily as a headphone amplifier, and was listed on Stereophile Recommended Component (Class B) till 2011. I have extracted the description from Stereophile recommended components for your reference:
> 
> ...


Thank you very much Andy for taking your time to pull this information together for me. If only your new DAP was in my budget. I'm in the market for my very first DAP and CIEM. Your efforts throughout here to answer all Cayin related questions is admirable and appreciated. 

I plan to buy the Hiby R6 within the next week but I'm now going to wait until after the audio show here in Hong Kong on Friday. Will you be there?


----------



## Pictograms

Rayzilla said:


> Thank you very much Andy for taking your time to pull this information together for me. If only your new DAP was in my budget. I'm in the market for my very first DAP and CIEM. Your efforts throughout here to answer all Cayin related questions is admirable and appreciated.
> 
> I plan to buy the Hiby R6 within the next week but I'm now going to wait until after the audio show here in Hong Kong on Friday. Will you be there?


The R6 has a pretty high output impedance so you might want to try the CIEMs you want with it to make sure it doesn’t alter the sound in a way you don’t like.
I discovered the other day that my Maestro sounds good on the lowest ohm setting and 600ohm out of the HA-1A.


----------



## alphanumerix1

Glad to see more people picking up this bad boy.


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## Andykong (Aug 8, 2018)

Rayzilla said:


> Thank you very much Andy for taking your time to pull this information together for me. If only your new DAP was in my budget. I'm in the market for my very first DAP and CIEM. Your efforts throughout here to answer all Cayin related questions is admirable and appreciated.
> 
> I plan to buy the Hiby R6 within the next week but I'm now going to wait until after the audio show here in Hong Kong on Friday. Will you be there?



Thank you very much for your kind words.  Plesae check out our N5iiS if you are interested in our DAP, details can be find here and here, or you can pose your questions in our N5ii/N5iiS official thread, users will be happy to answer any question including comparison with other DAP.

The Hiby R6 is a very good DAP at it price range, especially if third party applications is an important part of your portable audio usage.  With 3GB RAM, Android 6.1 and  SRC-less, they deserve serious consideration.

You can check out the N5iiS and N8 at the Hong Kong High-End Audio Visual show this weekend, unfortunately I won't be able to attend this show.


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## Andykong (Aug 8, 2018)

Today is the 25th birthday of Cayin, we served the high-end audio business since 8th August 1993 and have developed over 400 Hi-Fi products in past 25 years, ranging from amplifier to Digital Audio Players (DAP). We pay attention to detail because we believe this is what it takes to reproduce music naturally. With your blessing, we shall continue to work with dedication and strive for excellence for the years to come.






To celebrate our Silver Jubilee, Cayin will launch a special edition of our well-received A-845 Direct Heated Triode vacuum tube amplifier. The extremely attractive A-840Pro will be a limited production of 250 units only, it shares the same infrastructure as A-845 but will comes with all sorts of refinements. We shall announce the SRP and availability soon.


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## Orang_sabar

Andykong said:


> Thank you.
> 
> The HA-1Amk2 can handle HE-6 pretty well, I have more then enough sound pressure at around 2 o'clock volume mark, not as tight and articulated as the iHA-6 but the mid-range and vocal is  beautiful.
> 
> ...



Hi @Andykong ,

Are we need to amp bias the mkii?
Is it ok to use el84m for mkii?

Thank you


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## Pictograms

Unless I am mistaken the original HA1A self biased and since there’s no instruction in the manual I think the mk2 is the same. I haven’t had any issues yet...
Isn’t the EL84m just a more durable EL84 that can take more voltage?


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## Andykong

Orang_sabar said:


> Hi @Andykong ,
> 
> Are we need to amp bias the mkii?
> Is it ok to use el84m for mkii?
> ...



The HA1Amk2 is self biased, and you can use EL84m on it.


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## Orang_sabar

Andykong said:


> The HA1Amk2 is self biased, and you can use EL84m on it.



Do we need to setting the bias, everytime we change tube?


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## Pictograms

Orang_sabar said:


> Do we need to setting the bias, everytime we change tube?


Self biasing as in it does it on its own so you don’t need to. So you don’t need to do anything when uo change the tube


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## Orang_sabar

Hei @project86 @Andykong 

I am new in tube amp world. What I know is we need to warm up tube amp before listen to it. How about mk2? Do we need to warm it up by playing music, or just leave it on?

I also want to change the power tube, what do you recommend for mk2?


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## Andykong

Orang_sabar said:


> Hei @project86 @Andykong
> 
> I am new in tube amp world. What I know is we need to warm up tube amp before listen to it. How about mk2? Do we need to warm it up by playing music, or just leave it on?
> 
> I also want to change the power tube, what do you recommend for mk2?



The first 60 second after power up, the tube amp might sound very strange, something like out of tune if you are listening to a connected headphone when you press the power button.

The sound should sound normal after that, but it'll take around 15 minutes before the tubes become completely stable.


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## project86

Agreed, I typically turn on the amp and then go grab a drink or do something else for a bit. Come back in 20 minutes and it's good to go. 

Sometimes I will leave stuff on indefinitely (solid-state gear, which is also impacted by temp but to a much smaller degree), but I wouldn't want to prematurely wear out my nice tubes so I don't do that with the HA-1A mk2.


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## Orang_sabar

Thank you @Andykong @project86 for the info.

Can I ask you one more time?
How much volt input that mkii can handle? Mojo line out mode give 3 volt.

Thank you


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## KC-130

Did anyone else receive an MKii with a 4K OLED TV tucked inside ?​
Actual Photo


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## project86

Orang_sabar said:


> Thank you @Andykong @project86 for the info.
> 
> Can I ask you one more time?
> How much volt input that mkii can handle? Mojo line out mode give 3 volt.
> ...



Sorry, not sure. I typically feed it with a standard 2V output.


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## Pictograms

I normally just turn the volume 3 clicks down from line level to give me 2.1V but I can see how that would be annoying if you take your mojo on the go a lot(I have started using my phone more often).
If the amp had a issues with 3v shouldn’t you knotice clipping?
In case you are wondering here is a little thing posted by Em2016 in the mojo thread 
0 clicks down = 3 Vrms
1 click down = 2.67 Vrms
2 clicks down = 2.38 Vrms
3 clicks down = 2.1 Vrms
4 clicks down = 1.9 Vrms


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## Pictograms (Aug 14, 2018)

I don’t think I believed before that high amplification was beneficial for easy to drive iems.
But here I am sitting and listening to Maestro V2 which is fine out of my phone, iPod classic, iPod nano, Mojo(it is better out of the mojo but I always assume it’s the DAC), out of the HA-1A.2 and the soundstage is clearly larger than out of the Mojo directly... I’m going to have to do more listening comparisons.
Also I feel I should mention volume balance on my amp is exceptional I can listen very low with these iems and have L/R integrity


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## Pictograms

KC-130 said:


> Did anyone else receive an MKii with a 4K OLED TV tucked inside ?​
> Actual Photo
> ​


Looks a lot like a regular lcd in mine


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## KC-130

Pictograms said:


> Looks a lot like a regular lcd in mine


You need to select a higher impedance setting to get the 4K OLED effect


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## Andykong

Orang_sabar said:


> Thank you @Andykong @project86 for the info.
> 
> Can I ask you one more time?
> How much volt input that mkii can handle? Mojo line out mode give 3 volt.
> ...



I think 3V is OK, within our acceptable range.

But I think both Hugo and Mojo can adjust the line out level, so you can set it to 2V or 2.1V?


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## Andykong

Pictograms said:


> I don’t think I believed before that high amplification was beneficial for easy to drive iems.
> But here I am sitting and listening to Maestro V2 which is fine out of my phone, iPod classic, iPod nano, Mojo(it is better out of the mojo but I always assume it’s the DAC), out of the HA-1A.2 and the soundstage is clearly larger than out of the Mojo directly... I’m going to have to do more listening comparisons.
> Also I feel I should mention volume balance on my amp is exceptional I can listen very low with these iems and have L/R integrity



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cayin-iha-6-us-tour-and-reviews.797581/page-28#post-14369023

We have a special coverage to use powerful desktop headphone amp with IEMs, but we use iHA-6 instead of HA1Amk2.  

Yes, I believe even sensitive IEM will be benefited by a power headphone amplifier as long as the background noise is not getting into the way.


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## Pictograms

Andykong said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cayin-iha-6-us-tour-and-reviews.797581/page-28#post-14369023
> 
> We have a special coverage to use powerful desktop headphone amp with IEMs, but we use iHA-6 instead of HA1Amk2.
> 
> Yes, I believe even sensitive IEM will be benefited by a power headphone amplifier as long as the background noise is not getting into the way.


I have been very surprised how much different tubes change the noise floor!  The noise floor with my iems is only a little higher than my mojo, definitely low enough that music drowns it out completly. 
I am very tempted to try RAM labs super low noise tubes to see what they are like... but like headphones I must resist, when I get something new it is very easy for me to spend sooo much money on items to try it out. The other day I almost bought a HD800 and a Hifiman HE1000 just to see how they sound.
I must be patient in a month or so if I still feel the desire I will buy more tubes or more headphone... or a new amp for my speakers(I think the Ha-1a would pair soo Nicely with my my totem sttafs)


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## Orang_sabar (Aug 17, 2018)

Andykong said:


> I think 3V is OK, within our acceptable range.
> 
> But I think both Hugo and Mojo can adjust the line out level, so you can set it to 2V or 2.1V?



So it is better to set mojo to 2V or 2.1V @Andykong ?


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## Pictograms (Aug 17, 2018)

Orang_sabar said:


> So it is better to set mojo to 2V or 2.1V @Andykong ?


Since Andy says 3v is probably good it comes down more to how much you want to turn the volume up in the HA1A at 3v you won’t turn the volume up as much since the signal is louder... Unless I am told otherwise 2 or 2.1 won’t make much difference, each click on the Mojo is 1db.
I know yo asked @Andykong and he will tell me if edit. I’m wrong, but just trying to get you answers as fast as possible for your enjoyment(I at least can be quite inpatient)


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## Orang_sabar

Pictograms said:


> Since Andy says 3v is probably good it comes down more to how much you want to turn the volume up in the HA1A at 3v you won’t turn the volume up as much since the signal is louder... Unless I am told otherwise 2 or 2.1 won’t make much difference, each click on the Mojo is 1db.
> I know yo asked @Andykong and he will tell me if edit. I’m wrong, but just trying to get you answers as fast as possible for your enjoyment(I at least can be quite inpatient)


Thank you very much for your Info 
I just want to make sure that it is ok to give 3v input to mkii.
I heard that overpower input to our amp will destroy the amp.
And also, mojo give different sound to mkii in 2v and 3v output.


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## Andykong

Orang_sabar said:


> Thank you very much for your Info
> I just want to make sure that it is ok to give 3v input to mkii.
> I heard that overpower input to our amp will destroy the amp.
> And also, mojo give different sound to mkii in 2v and 3v output.



Well, I did response as soon as I read your question, and  I did say "3V is OK, within our acceptable range". 

I am surprised that an DAC will destroy an amp because the output is 3V instead of 2.1V.  Maybe you should find out more about the theory from whoever told you that before you get too worry or upset about that.   HiFi is about enjoying music, you should try to relax and enjoying the good things in life instead of worrying on speculation from unidentified source.

I do expect the DAC will sound different, or altered its overall presentation, when you change the output stage from 2.1V to 3V, or vice versa.  The final choice is related to your preference,


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## Zachik

Orang_sabar said:


> Have anyone did A-B testing between this Amp with WA6SE or Hugo 2?





Orang_sabar said:


> Finally my ha-1a mk2 has arrived.
> The review in headfonia and this thread really spot on. I really like it


@Orang_sabar - I am curious: why did you end up choosing the Cayin HA-1A over the Woo WA6SE?
I am having this exact dilemma, too, and cannot decide which one to get...


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## KC-130

Pictograms said:


> I have been very surprised how much different tubes change the noise floor!  The noise floor with my iems is only a little higher than my mojo, definitely low enough that music drowns it out completly.
> I am very tempted to try RAM labs super low noise tubes to see what they are like... but like headphones I must resist, when I get something new it is very easy for me to spend sooo much money on items to try it out. The other day I almost bought a HD800 and a Hifiman HE1000 just to see how they sound.
> I must be patient in a month or so if I still feel the desire I will buy more tubes or more headphone... or a new amp for my speakers(I think the Ha-1a would pair soo Nicely with my my totem sttafs)


I've encountered a peculiar situation using my MX4's with the MKii.
The MX4 is a low impedance HP (around 20 ohms) and you've been using IEM's with your MKii which I assume are even lower ohms.
The volume in the right-side driver on my MX4 is noticeably lower than than the left side.

I've tried 3 different HP cables (stock, Draug, Solvine) and 3 sets of 12AU7 tubes (stock, EH Gold Pin, Mullard) and get similar results.

Have you encountered such difference using your IEM's ?


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## Pictograms (Aug 19, 2018)

KC-130 said:


> I've encountered a peculiar situation using my MX4's with the MKii.
> The MX4 is a low impedance HP (around 20 ohms) and you've been using IEM's with your MKii which I assume are even lower ohms.
> The volume in the right-side driver on my MX4 is noticeably lower than than the left side.
> 
> ...


How much are you turning the volume wheel? I have been surprised how equal it is at low volumes, but it does start off quite uneven for a very tiny amount of turning.
Try reducing the input volume on mojo to turn up the volume on HA-1A.
It is common for analog volume control to be unbalanced at very low levels


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## Pictograms

Pictograms said:


> How much are you turning the volume wheel? I have been surprised how equal it is on mine, but it does start off quite uneven for a tiny amount. Try reducing the input volume on mojo to turn up the volume on HA-1A





Pictograms said:


> How much are you turning the volume wheel? I have been surprised how equal it is on mine, but it does start off quite uneven for a tiny amount. Try reducing the input volume on mojo to turn up the volume on HA-1A





Andykong said:


> Well, I did response as soon as I read your question, and  I did say "3V is OK, within our acceptable range".
> 
> I am surprised that an DAC will destroy an amp because the output is 3V instead of 2.1V.  Maybe you should find out more about the theory from whoever told you that before you get too worry or upset about that.   HiFi is about enjoying music, you should try to relax and enjoying the good things in life instead of worrying on speculation from unidentified source.
> 
> I do expect the DAC will sound different, or altered its overall presentation, when you change the output stage from 2.1V to 3V, or vice versa.  The final choice is related to your preference,





Andykong said:


> Well, I did response as soon as I read your question, and  I did say "3V is OK, within our acceptable range".
> 
> I am surprised that an DAC will destroy an amp because the output is 3V instead of 2.1V.  Maybe you should find out more about the theory from whoever told you that before you get too worry or upset about that.   HiFi is about enjoying music, you should try to relax and enjoying the good things in life instead of worrying on speculation from unidentified source.
> 
> I do expect the DAC will sound different, or altered its overall presentation, when you change the output stage from 2.1V to 3V, or vice versa.  The final choice is related to your preference,



In the past I have been warned about how bad clipping can be for equipment, although it has also been pointed at out that at that point it is very easily audible.
@Orang_sabar does that sound like what you were told? Or something else?


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## KC-130

Pictograms said:


> How much are you turning the volume wheel? I have been surprised how equal it is at low volumes, but it does start off quite uneven for a very tiny amount of turning.
> Try reducing the input volume on mojo to turn up the volume on HA-1A.
> It is common for analog volume control to be unbalanced at very low levels


I rarely turn the volume past 9 o'clock on the MKii but even at that level the L/R volume level is still noticeably imbalanced with the MX4.
The volume is perfectly balanced with my Clear, Elear, and Blackwood at all volumes level... even very low volumes.
I usually set the Hugo 2 and Mojo in Line Level mode for use with the MKii.

I'm able to use software EQ to correct the L/R balance but with the Hugo 2 I'd rather not have to use it.  
The Hugo 2 just doesn't require extra EQ for me.

I assumed it was due to the low impedance of the MX4.
It's odd that it only occurs with the MX4 even with all of the following changes:
- DIfferent cables 
- Different sets of tubes
- Occurs in both HP outputs of the MKii
- Using Line Level mode of Hugo 2 / Mojo
- Using Standard output mode of Hugo 2 / Mojo with Vol adjustments

Doesn't occur at all using the MX4 with my other Amps.


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## Pictograms

KC-130 said:


> I rarely turn the volume past 9 o'clock on the MKii but even at that level the L/R volume level is still noticeably imbalanced with the MX4.
> The volume is perfectly balanced with my Clear, Elear, and Blackwood at all volumes level... even very low volumes.
> I usually set the Hugo 2 and Mojo in Line Level mode for use with the MKii.
> 
> ...


That that seems to be so strange, I don’t have that issue with any of my iems, and aside from the volume or cable/adapter problems it doesn’t make sense to me... do you have any other low impedance iems to try? 
Did you try turning your mojo/Hugo waaaaay down to first red and crank your HA1A just to see? The iems I have been using are also 20ohm.
When I get home I’ll try them with a DN-2000j... although they hiss like crazy on my mojo so we will see if I can hear any music


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## Pictograms (Aug 20, 2018)

Okay I was just trying with my DN-2000js and I get clear balanced sound on both ears at about 7o’clock... although the difference between right ear being lower then left is the difference of 1 degree.
But I go from no sound to left loudest side to balanced in such small amounts of turning.
I am also shocked abt he noise floor... with the 8ohm earbuds my noisefloor is about equal to that of stock tubes with 250ohm T90...
Sorry I can’t help


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## Orang_sabar

Zachik said:


> @Orang_sabar - I am curious: why did you end up choosing the Cayin HA-1A over the Woo WA6SE?
> I am having this exact dilemma, too, and cannot decide which one to get...



I choose HA-1A, all because of Kennerton Odin review in Headfonia 

I have heard Odin with WA6SE, as long I remember, the sound was good enough. Maybe someday I compare directly WA6SE with ha1a Mkii.

If you want warm and smooth sound, you must change mkii 12au7 stock tube.


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## Orang_sabar

Pictograms said:


> In the past I have been warned about how bad clipping can be for equipment, although it has also been pointed at out that at that point it is very easily audible.
> @Orang_sabar does that sound like what you were told? Or something else?



Sometime I heard crackling sound from mkii. I thought it was because input volt. But now I think it is because something else.


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## Pictograms

Orang_sabar said:


> Sometime I heard crackling sound from mkii. I thought it was because input volt. But now I think it is because something else.


Sometimes tubes make sounds which is not a big deal, some of mine make more noises than others.
But when I first got the Amp I got a lot of crackling which ended up being the RF noise from my wifi, the modem was too close so I moved it and problem solved. 
Tube amps are apparently much more sensitive to stuff than solid state.


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## Bostonears (Aug 22, 2018)

Just picked up a HA-1A Mk2 unit. A few comments (after a couple of hours listening with the stock tubes).

With HiFiMan HE-560 phones (planar, 45 ohm, 90dB sensitivity): This thing sounds spooky good, with extremely wide soundstage. No evident background noise. Impedance switch setting only makes minor difference. (These are the primary headphones I plan to use with the HA-1A Mk2.)

With Sennheiser HD-540 II (300 ohm, 94dB): Overall presentation is quite good. But there's a low level background noise (that's neither hiss nor 60Hz hum) audible with no music playing. Noise is lessened somewhat at 6-32 ohm setting, but still detectable. This noise isn't particularly loud (or unusual) for a tube amp, and it's not audible with music playing, but it's puzzling, considering that HD-540 sensitivity is only 4dB higher than the HiFiMan. (The noise difference seems to be greater than a 4dB increase would indicate.)

With Audio Technica ESW9 (25 ohm, 104dB): Noise is too evident to make this a viable headphone for this amp. (I didn't expect it would be, but figured I would try it anyway.)

Preamp outputs (to 25 wpc DIY gainclone power amp with nearfield bookshelf monitors): Holy crap! Dynamic, and friggin' holographic. And with no music playing, there's no detectable noise. It's dead quiet even with my ear right up to the speaker drivers.
This raises a few questions regarding why some noise might be present in the headphone output but in not the preamp output:

I assume the 12AU7 driver tubes are in the circuit for both headphone and preamp outputs. Is that correct?
And, more significantly, I assume the EL84 power tubes are NOT in the preamp output circuit. Is that correct?
Is there something else in the preamp output circuit that could impact this issue?
I've got some 12AU7 tubes on the way, so I'll try rolling those to see if they impact the sound quality (and possibly noise). But so far, I'm impressed with the sound of this amp.


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## KC-130 (Aug 22, 2018)

Bostonears said:


> Just picked up a HA-1A Mk2 unit. A few comments (after a couple of hours listening with the stock tubes).
> 
> With HiFiMan HE-560 phones (planar, 45 ohm, 90dB sensitivity): This thing sounds spooky good, with extremely wide soundstage. No evident background noise. Impedance switch setting only makes minor difference. (These are the primary headphones I plan to use with the HA-1A Mk2.)
> 
> ...


My ears are far from being reference grade but I found no discernible difference between these 12AU7 Tubes (Stock, Mullard, EH Gold Pin)
All of them have been broken in and I decided to just re-install the Stock tubes.
The EH tubes had a barely detectable hiss but they have been silent in my other Amps.
The other tubes also have different expressions in my other Amps.
I'll also be ordering some additional 12AU7 tubes in a search for something that adds some variation to the stock sound MKii, which is already superb.
This is still my go-to Amp for all serious listening.


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## KC-130

To expand the conversation a bit, I have a brief comment on the difference between using the Hugo 2 alone (as both DAC & Amp) and adding the MKii Amp downstream.  
The Hugo 2 has no problem delivering the power expected of a quality SS Amp.  I've accidentally observed this on occasion by setting the Hugo 2 in Line Out mode while forgetting my headphones were plugged into the Hugo 2 rather than the target external Amp... painful.

More to the point, the Cayin Amp greatly improves the SQ of these elements over the Hugo 2 alone:
- Depth: The soundstage is granted a greatly improved front-to-back definition which, to me, is what engages my internals below the shoulders.
The deeper the soundstage, the more I sense the musicality flow southward through my sternum.  This is where I find the Amp produces what my headphones may lack.  
- Separation: Even listening to a performance with minimal instruments (e.g, Patricia Barber's jazz rendition of 'My Girl') I physically glance around the room as though I'm spotting the band members; and that's a natural reaction to most all of the music I play through the Cayin Amp.
- Clarity: With the Hugo 2 alone I find that the 'expected' sound of the instruments is not nearly as distinguished.  For example, in an instrument heavy performance it's a challenge to discern the identity of the bass... is it an upright bass or is it an electric bass ?  The Cayin Amp adds the extra nuance, via thump or slam, that paints a clear image of the source.

I'm sure that if I were left alone on a deserted island I would appreciate having just the Hugo 2... but in the comfort of my listening room, I prefer adding the MKii.


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## Andykong

Bostonears said:


> Just picked up a HA-1A Mk2 unit. A few comments (after a couple of hours listening with the stock tubes).
> 
> With HiFiMan HE-560 phones (planar, 45 ohm, 90dB sensitivity): This thing sounds spooky good, with extremely wide soundstage. No evident background noise. Impedance switch setting only makes minor difference. (These are the primary headphones I plan to use with the HA-1A Mk2.)
> 
> ...



A bit puzzled by the background issue when connected to a Senn HD-540II, I have two HD-540 Gold in my cabinet, 600ohm and 300ohm, I don't recall background hissing with my HA-1Amk2, but I was using Golden Lion 12AU7 in my personal unit. I'll have to retrofit the stock tube back to HA1Amk2 and try again some time later to verify this.  

Try switching to 600ohm, lets see if the background hissing is lowered at 600ohm setting.

With ESW9, if you really want to use it with HA1Amk2, get a IFI iEMatch, this should tame the background  hissing significantly.  Unfortunately, IEMatch is only available in 3.5mm,  so it should work with your ESW9 but not sensitive headphones with 6.35mm.

You assumption is correct.  There are certainly other things that might cause higher then normal background hiss.  As KC-130 has suggested, RF interference is a possibility, and using interconnect and power cord with good shielding will help. You can also conduct a small experiment by unplugging all cable and only connect one source to the HA1Amk2 with on pair of interconnect, this close reduce the open loop possibility which tube amplifiers are more sensitive than SS amp.


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## Andykong

KC-130 said:


> To expand the conversation a bit, I have a brief comment on the difference between using the Hugo 2 alone (as both DAC & Amp) and adding the MKii Amp downstream.
> The Hugo 2 has no problem delivering the power expected of a quality SS Amp.  I've accidentally observed this on occasion by setting the Hugo 2 in Line Out mode while forgetting my headphones were plugged into the Hugo 2 rather than the target external Amp... painful.
> 
> More to the point, the Cayin Amp greatly improves the SQ of these elements over the Hugo 2 alone:
> ...



Hugo2 should offer superb transparency when use as an all-in-one unit, but if you were using a headphone that prefer high current output, adding HA-1Amk2 will definitely help.  

On the other hand, your observation also tells us one thing: specification is not always that important with tube amplifier. I am pretty sure Hugo2 has impressive channel separation figure in its specification, adding HA-1Amk2 will definitely lower the channel separation from system point of view.  If this is a pure solid state system, lower channel separation will most likely produce a less satisfactory instrument separation (more cross-talk), but in you were using a tube amplifier, that will be a different story completely.  

I hope your sharing will provide more insight to potential tube amplifier users, trust your ears, not the specification data, you must listen to it in person before you can appreciate the level of fidelity offered by a tube amplifier with lower-specification.


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## Orang_sabar

Andykong said:


> I hope your sharing will provide more insight to potential tube amplifier users, trust your ears, not the specification data, you must listen to it in person before you can appreciate the level of fidelity offered by a tube amplifier with lower-specification.



I really agree with this statement.
But there is condition that we can't try an amp before we buy. So I understand that some people will have to trust a specification sheet or a review article, before they buy an amp.


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## Bostonears (Aug 25, 2018)

Andykong said:


> A bit puzzled by the background issue when connected to a Senn HD-540II, I have two HD-540 Gold in my cabinet, 600ohm and 300ohm, I don't recall background hissing with my HA-1Amk2, but I was using Golden Lion 12AU7 in my personal unit. I'll have to retrofit the stock tube back to HA1Amk2 and try again some time later to verify this.
> 
> Try switching to 600ohm, lets see if the background hissing is lowered at 600ohm setting.
> 
> ...


Hi Andykong,

Thanks for your comments. I think I have now resolved the issue, and I believe it had to do with the Input Selector switch. Previously, I had only used the CD input. (The Aux input still had the plastic covers on its jacks.) To try to troubleshoot the noise, I was using the highly sensitive AT ESW9 headphones (with nothing connected to the RCA input jacks). Listening closely, I could make out two components to the noise: a low pitched grumble, which increased the higher the impedance setting on the front switch; and a faint high pitched hiss, which increased the higher the volume knob was turned up. The hiss (presumably from thermal noise) was less prominent, and what I would expect from any tube amp, since it was barely audible with the volume knob in a normal listening position.

Then I switched the input selector to the Aux position, and the low pitched noise immediately dropped off considerably, leaving only the faint hiss. And when I switched the selector back to CD, the low pitched noise remained reduced. Now I can switch back and forth without experiencing a problem. I think there might have been some contamination on the contacts in the Input Selector switch. The only time I hear the low grumble now is for about 20 or 30 seconds when I first turn on the amp, then it fades out. (I'm guessing that's from the power regulation tube warming up.)

Not sure why the original noise issue didn't affect the Preamp Outputs. (Maybe something to do with different grounding for the Pre Outs?) In any case, amp noise is now low enough that I can use the Senn HD540 II with the impedance switch at 151-300 ohms without abnormal noise. And I can even use the ESW9 at the 8-32 ohms setting without a noise problem (although the HA-1A Mk2 is way too powerful to have practical range on the volume control with those cans).

I think I'm now good to go with this amp. (It's fantastic with the HiFiMan HE-560.) And I really appreciate that a Cayin company person responds to concerns stated here on Head-Fi. Keep up the good work. (And maybe have somebody check those Input Selector switches at the factory.)


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## Andykong

Bostonears said:


> Hi Andykong,
> 
> Thanks for your comments. I think I have now resolved the issue, and I believe it had to do with the Input Selector switch. Previously, I had only used the CD input. (The Aux input still had the plastic covers on its jacks.) To try to troubleshoot the noise, I was using the highly sensitive AT ESW9 headphones (with nothing connected to the RCA input jacks). Listening closely, I could make out two components to the noise: a low pitched grumble, which increased the higher the impedance setting on the front switch; and a faint high pitched hiss, which increased the higher the volume knob was turned up. The hiss (presumably from thermal noise) was less prominent, and what I would expect from any tube amp, since it was barely audible with the volume knob in a normal listening position.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your kind consideration.

I did mention in a previous post that 


> The first 60 second after power up, the tube amp might sound very strange, something like out of tune if you are listening to a connected headphone when you press the power button.
> 
> The sound should sound normal after that, but it'll take around 15 minutes before the tubes become completely stable.



So if you "hear the low grumble now is for about 20 or 30 seconds when I first turn on the amp, then it fades out", then it is likely a warm up problem.  

Although the two inputs (CD and AUX) are supposed to be identical, I prefer to AUX input for no reason, it just sound a little bit more transparent to me, so I use AUX as my primary input, and maybe that's why I didn't recall any abnormal behavior.  I'll pay attention to that and report your observation to our Engineer.


----------



## Pictograms

Bostonears said:


> Hi Andykong,
> 
> Thanks for your comments. I think I have now resolved the issue, and I believe it had to do with the Input Selector switch. Previously, I had only used the CD input. (The Aux input still had the plastic covers on its jacks.) To try to troubleshoot the noise, I was using the highly sensitive AT ESW9 headphones (with nothing connected to the RCA input jacks). Listening closely, I could make out two components to the noise: a low pitched grumble, which increased the higher the impedance setting on the front switch; and a faint high pitched hiss, which increased the higher the volume knob was turned up. The hiss (presumably from thermal noise) was less prominent, and what I would expect from any tube amp, since it was barely audible with the volume knob in a normal listening position.
> 
> ...



So do you not get any of your weird noise with the EDW9 or your hiss is just loud enough to cover it? (I’m just curious) or do your HD540 just amplify a specific frequency so you hear it more? 
I was reading the info on a tube website and one comment they made was it’s a good idea to slightly twist the tubes in the socket to make sure the pins have made full contact, since many tube returns ended up not being noisy just missing sitting perfectly.


----------



## Pictograms

It’s also not the same but I was testing all my headphones and iems the other day and discover the my VE smalls 24ohm 117db sensitivity allow me to hear hum, no other of my iems allow me to Hear it even more sensitive ones... very strange I assume it amplifies one specific frequency more than the others.
Switching the 12DT5 tube takes it away but o find it so strange that it’s only audible with one set of iems.


----------



## Bostonears (Aug 26, 2018)

Andykong said:


> So if you "hear the low grumble now is for about 20 or 30 seconds when I first turn on the amp, then it fades out", then it is likely a warm up problem.
> 
> Although the two inputs (CD and AUX) are supposed to be identical, I prefer to AUX input for no reason, it just sound a little bit more transparent to me, so I use AUX as my primary input, and maybe that's why I didn't recall any abnormal behavior.  I'll pay attention to that and report your observation to our Engineer.


I don't consider noise during warm up of a tube amp to be a problem. It's just the tubes warming up, and as long as it's gone during listening, that's fine.

As far as I can tell, the two inputs now sound identical. They just didn't when I first started using the amp. As I speculated in the earlier post, it might have been due to some contamination on the Input Selector switch contacts.



Pictograms said:


> So do you not get any of your weird noise with the EDW9 or your hiss is just loud enough to cover it? (I’m just curious) or do your HD540 just amplify a specific frequency so you hear it more?


The ESW9 headphones are very sensitive headphones (primarily intended for use with low power portable devices), and revealed the noise more obviously. Now that the "problem" with the Cayin seems to be fixed, I don't hear the weird noise with the ESW9 when the amp is set to the low impedance range appropriate for those headphones. I only hear it when the impedance setting is increased (increasing the amp gain), but I wouldn't use such a setting with those headphones. Previously, the noise was very evident at any setting. In any case, the ESW9 are too sensitive to use on a regular basis with a high powered desktop amp like the Cayin.

The HD540 and HE560 are more typical of the type of headphones likely to be used with the Cayin amp. The HD540 are more sensitive than the HD560 (by 4dB in their specs), and it's possible that the HD540 are even more sensitive at the specific frequency of the noise. But perhaps more importantly, the HE560 are low impedance planar headphones which require a lot of current (but not much voltage), whereas the HD540 are high impedance dynamic headphones that require a lot of voltage (but not much current), and that distinction might be why the noise was more evident on the HD540. But both of them are now fully usable without any evident noise, other than the typical faint tube hiss when the volume knob is turned way up, beyond the normal listening range.


----------



## Pictograms

What Dac is  McDermott everyone using with this amp? 
I’m currently using the Chord mojo but thinking about an upgrade.
I have found myself setting on the Jan military pre amp tubes after switching between Northern Electric,Tung sol, and stock. 
The Northen Electric have a very similar sound to stock but have more extension especially treble, giving a very clear sound.
The tung sol and Jan are similar to each other. Both are less mid focused but have great separation and very fast attack/decay... maybe less tubey? 
The tung sol have a nice relaxed bass while the Jan are very tight with great slam and I find it pairs very nice with the Mojo.


----------



## Pooh in japan

Has anyone tried with hd820 ?


----------



## Pictograms

So anyone still keeping tabs on this thread?
I have a strange issue with hum and hope someone may have any ideas...
With my more sensitive headphones Beyer T90 and VE zen I am getting hum which is barely audible at the lowest ohm setting but goes up drasticlly with each ohm setting.
It does not change with volume level and is only audible with quiets pre amp tubes.
I have checked for ground loops and moved my amp around the house and tested at different times of days.
Does this sound like a normal amount of hum?


----------



## project86

This seems pretty normal as far as the increase in hum as you switch to higher impedance settings. That's been my experience across various amps from different brands so nothing unique to Cayin.

I will have to try some more sensitive headphones with the HA-300 to see how it does.


----------



## Bostonears

You might try a different 12DT5 tube


----------



## Pictograms

I’ll give some other  12DT5 tube a go, but as long as it’s not indicative of a real issue I’m not really bothered.
Anyone have a good source for 12DT5 tubes? Where I have bought in the past don’t stock them.

Thank you both!


----------



## Bostonears

Pictograms said:


> I’ll give some other  12DT5 tube a go, but as long as it’s not indicative of a real issue I’m not really bothered.
> Anyone have a good source for 12DT5 tubes? Where I have bought in the past don’t stock them.


eBay?


----------



## Pictograms (Oct 27, 2018)

I will check eBay out
I wonder if it’s a frequency response thing with my T90/zen since I have no him with my Eikon or my UM Maestro iem (which is far more sensitive than anything else).... I guess this is just puzzling me more than anything, very confusing for me.
Yea more than anything I would just like to understand why.


----------



## wadi

Whatever you do, you will hear that annoying hum. That is the problem with Cayin tube amplifiers.


----------



## Pictograms

I don’t think I remember hearing about hum on other Cayin amps?
Have you had other occurrences?


----------



## wadi

Check out their new flagship Ha-300 thread.


----------



## cfranchi

Is someone listening to the Kennerton Vali with the HA-1A mk2 ?


----------



## Pictograms

Doesn’t seem like many people in the thread  have a huge variety of headphones. 
If anyone was on east coast Canada they are welcome to try my amp with whatever headphones.
I personally would love to try it with more...


----------



## talmadge (Nov 15, 2018)

I have no annoying hum with my
*Cayin HA-1A MK2*
using the following:

Tung-Sol 12AU7 / 6189 New Production Preamp Vacuum Tube (2)
Mullard EL84 / 6BQ5 New Production Power Vacuum Tube (2)
Shipping USPS Priority Mail - Delivery in 2-3 Business Days:
[Balanced Triodes]: Tung-Sol 12AU7 / 6189 New Production Preamp Vacuum Tube -
[Low Noise & Microphonics]: Tung-Sol 12AU7 / 6189 New Production Preamp Vacuum Tube -
[Matching (up to 5 tubes)]: Tung-Sol 12AU7 / 6189 New Production Preamp Vacuum Tube -
[Matching (up to 9 tubes)]: Mullard EL84 / 6BQ5 New Production Power Vacuum Tube -

I took out the stock tubes and put these in before I ever listened to it the first time so I can't comment on the stock tubes. Also use a cheater plug on the power cord which removes the ground. (I've been doing this with my amps all of my 58 yrs, however you do so at your own risk)

Headphones tried with it include: LCD-X, LCD-2 closed, Sony MDR Z1R, Senn 58X Jubilee, Audioquest Nighthawk, Monolith 1060 V2


----------



## talmadge (Nov 15, 2018)

This is a great amp/value


----------



## cfranchi

Do you know if the last batch of HA-1A mk2 have the internal structure defect that was described in this thread ?

For the Vali, Kennerton has confirmed me that HA-1A mk2 and Vali have a great synergy


----------



## cfranchi

Here is the answer of Kennerton about Vali and HA-1A mk2 :

Dear Sir,
Cayin HA-1A mk2 is a great amplifier. And it works excellent pairing with Vali.
In my opinion, they have better synergy than with a more expensive Auris HA2 SE, for example.
But the sound of this setup may seem a bit warm and smooth. If you like this sound - I highly recommend you Cayin for Vali.
If you prefer a neutral sound with an emphasis on high and medium frequencies, that will suit you more Violectric. They are great for Vali both, but they are absolutely different.
But in my humble opinion, Cayin and Vali are a great Duo. Maybe together they will not miss the analytical, but they are able to give the amazing pleasure of music!


----------



## Bostonears

cfranchi said:


> Here is the answer of Kennerton about Vali and HA-1A mk2 :
> 
> Dear Sir,
> Cayin HA-1A mk2 is a great amplifier. And it works excellent pairing with Vali.
> ...


I agree that Cayin's sound is smooth (lacking harshness), but I wouldn't describe it as overly warm (usually implying excess midrange bloom). Also bear in mind that the sound of the Cayin can be tuned by tube rolling.


----------



## cfranchi

Yep, I'm curious to listen to the combo Vali / Mojo / Cayin
Vali is actually great with Mojo, don't really know what to expect with the Cayin, however in France the cayin can be bought new for 700 EUR (a very good price I think) and 15 days return


----------



## KC-130

My initial attraction to the Cayin was driven by my affection for boating.
From my first glance at the Cayin, I sensed its source of inspiration:


----------



## Andykong

cfranchi said:


> Here is the answer of Kennerton about Vali and HA-1A mk2 :
> 
> Dear Sir,
> Cayin HA-1A mk2 is a great amplifier. And it works excellent pairing with Vali.
> ...



I almost forgot, Kennerton has kept our HA1Amk2 as one of their reference.   I presented both iHA-6 and HA1Amk2 to Mr Valentin Kazanzhi (CEO of Kennerton) and he prefers the tube amplifier.

If you prefer Neutral sound, I suggest you consider iHA-6, they are at same price range as HA1Amk2.  As discussed in PM, I personally prefer HA1Amk2 for Odin, and iHA-6 for Vali.  iHA-6 can handle very different load, from IEM to Susvara/Abyss AB1266, it is transparent and neutral so your headphone and DAC determined the tonal characteristic of your setup.  The HA1Amk2 is more musical, warm sounding and allow you to tube rolling to achieve tonal adjustment.


----------



## Andykong

cfranchi said:


> Yep, I'm curious to listen to the combo Vali / Mojo / Cayin
> Vali is actually great with Mojo, don't really know what to expect with the Cayin, however in France the cayin can be bought new for 700 EUR (a very good price I think) and 15 days return



Well, I don't think there is a lot of choice for all-tube headphone amplifier at below 1000 EUR price range, maybe the only one. 

Having said that, iHA-6 is also an unique offer for fully balanced high power (upto 7 watt per channel) headphone amplifier at 1000 EUR or below.


----------



## Andykong

talmadge said:


> I have no annoying hum with my
> *Cayin HA-1A MK2*
> using the following:
> 
> ...



Thank you very much for your impression.  Your choice of headphone covered a very wide range, the Sony and Audioquest are low impedance high sensitivity, the Audeze are demanding full-size planar, and the HD58x is typical high impedance dynamic headphone, so you basically have covered all the categories in terms of driving requirements.

In our experience, tube amplifier are very sensitive to external interference.  It is nasty to debug once it show up. You use a cheater plug from very beginning, that tells how experience (and confident) you are in this hobby already because ground loop is indeed one of the commonest reason for humming.


----------



## Pictograms

Ah, it’s always so nice when this thread gets busy again.
I know it has been said before, but I was very surprised how much you can tune the HA-1A mk2 with the tube choice. 
Does anyone have experience with power cables? 
It’s one of the things I haves still never tried.


----------



## UsoppNoKami (Nov 19, 2018)

Just picked up my amp today from StarsPicker here in Malaysia.  I had listened to both the HA-1A mk2 and the HA-300B at the shop to look for a match for my Focal Elex, very happy with my purchase.  12au7 Gold Lions already fitted tonight, definitely an improvement over stock.  Have 12au7 NOS Mullards and EL84 bugle boy treble clefs to roll next, also managed to find a pair of NOS Sylvania 12DT5s to keep as spares since the NOS Tung Sol fitted by Cayin is hard to find. 

One word : Happy


----------



## KC-130

I noticed only a slight improvement after applying the Gold Lions and a few other brands I've now shelved and forgotten.
For me, the most pronounced improvement was from the Amperex Holland Bugle Boy 12au7 tubes (pair on eBay, $149).
I allowed them to simmer for several 5 hour sessions before I ever listened to them.  I've yet to hear even the slightest anomaly from this amp and I didn't see a need to blemish my perception with the unpleasant burn-in period.  My psycho-acoustic interpreters aren't sensitive enough to analyze sounds in a meaningful fashion but this Amp hits on all 8 cylinders (and 5 tubes) of audio entertainment.  I would highly recommend trying the Bugle Boy 12au7.


----------



## KC-130

A question for the Tech gurus.
I want to use the PreAmp output of my MKii as the input to my ARCAM FMJ-A19 with the intent enjoying the rich tube sound of the MKii through my external speakers.
The A19 is an integrated Amp and already has a PreAmp built in.
All of the inputs of the A19 are line-level with the exception of one MM phono input.

My question is... Can I achieve my intended goal of hearing the tube sound through my speakers by connecting the PreAmp Out of the MKii to the line-level Input of the A19 (or any other integrated Amp) ?  My concern is that the PreAmp Out of the MKii may not be suitable input to my A19.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

KC-130 said:


> I noticed only a slight improvement after applying the Gold Lions and a few other brands I've now shelved and forgotten.
> For me, the most pronounced improvement was from the Amperex Holland Bugle Boy 12au7 tubes (pair on eBay, $149).
> I allowed them to simmer for several 5 hour sessions before I ever listened to them.  I've yet to hear even the slightest anomaly from this amp and I didn't see a need to blemish my perception with the unpleasant burn-in period.  My psycho-acoustic interpreters aren't sensitive enough to analyze sounds in a meaningful fashion but this Amp hits on all 8 cylinders (and 5 tubes) of audio entertainment.  I would highly recommend trying the Bugle Boy 12au7.



Nice. Will roll the NOS Mullards and an awesome pair of Bugle Boy Treble Clef tubes soon. taking my time with each pair to give all of them proper burn in time


----------



## Pictograms

KC-130 said:


> A question for the Tech gurus.
> I want to use the PreAmp output of my MKii as the input to my ARCAM FMJ-A19 with the intent enjoying the rich tube sound of the MKii through my external speakers.
> The A19 is an integrated Amp and already has a PreAmp built in.
> All of the inputs of the A19 are line-level with the exception of one MM phono input.
> ...


Your max input on your A19 seems to be 4.6V and the max output of the Cayin is 4V so that should be perfectly fine... there might be a impedance mismatch...I’m not sure what the pre-out impedance of the Cayin.
Your A19 has 10k which is not low. Seems worth a try to me, if you don’t like the sound then you might benifit from a impedance cable like Burson has.
Can anyone direct me to the output impedance of the pre-outs on the HA-1Amk2 maybe I am just missing it


----------



## Andykong

Pictograms said:


> Your max input on your A19 seems to be 4.6V and the max output of the Cayin is 4V so that should be perfectly fine... there might be a impedance mismatch...I’m not sure what the pre-out impedance of the Cayin.
> Your A19 has 10k which is not low. Seems worth a try to me, if you don’t like the sound then you might benifit from a impedance cable like Burson has.
> Can anyone direct me to the output impedance of the pre-outs on the HA-1Amk2 maybe I am just missing it



The output impedance of HA-1Amk2 pre-out is 12K
But your A19 is an integrated amp and it does come with feature such as  by-pass internal preamp to use it as power amp, so I think HA-1Amk2 + A19 pairing will end up with TWO preamp (or voltage) amplification, TWO volume control, and one Power (or current) amplification. You should be able to add flavour to your system, but the distortion and noise floor will also be raised.  Even you couldn't hear these directly, it might still damaged the original dark background, imaging will be less 3D, so you are trading some playback quality for tube tonal characteristic.


----------



## KC-130

Andykong said:


> The output impedance of HA-1Amk2 pre-out is 12K
> But your A19 is an integrated amp and it does come with feature such as  by-pass internal preamp to use it as power amp, so I think HA-1Amk2 + A19 pairing will end up with TWO preamp (or voltage) amplification, TWO volume control, and one Power (or current) amplification. You should be able to add flavour to your system, but the distortion and noise floor will also be raised.  Even you couldn't hear these directly, it might still damaged the original dark background, imaging will be less 3D, so you are trading some playback quality for tube tonal characteristic.


Thanks for the answer.  
There are stereo amps that do allow a by-pass of the preamp and I had hoped that my A19 would automatically recognize an input as not needing to be pre-amped... but it does not.  I'll have to find a suitable stereo power amp that will allow me to hear the qualities of the MKii without double preamp.  It was already challenging enough to find a good amp/speaker match and now adding the MKii as a preamp may be asking too much.  I do think it says a lot about the MKii that it sounds so good I want to hear it through my loudspeakers.


----------



## Andykong

KC-130 said:


> Thanks for the answer.
> There are stereo amps that do allow a by-pass of the preamp and I had hoped that my A19 would automatically recognize an input as not needing to be pre-amped... but it does not.  I'll have to find a suitable stereo power amp that will allow me to hear the qualities of the MKii without double preamp.  It was already challenging enough to find a good amp/speaker match and now adding the MKii as a preamp may be asking too much.  I do think it says a lot about the MKii that it sounds so good I want to hear it through my loudspeakers.



Yes, Pre/power approach tends to be more expansive then integrated amplifier, and the choice of tube based Power Amplifier is particularly limited. The more straight forward approach is to use HA-1Amk2 with active speaker.  Our domestic team had team up with Adam speaker few years ago to conducted a HA-1Amk2 + ARTist 5 campaign and the result was quite good.


----------



## cfranchi

KC-130 said:


> I noticed only a slight improvement after applying the Gold Lions and a few other brands I've now shelved and forgotten.
> For me, the most pronounced improvement was from the Amperex Holland Bugle Boy 12au7 tubes (pair on eBay, $149).
> I allowed them to simmer for several 5 hour sessions before I ever listened to them.  I've yet to hear even the slightest anomaly from this amp and I didn't see a need to blemish my perception with the unpleasant burn-in period.  My psycho-acoustic interpreters aren't sensitive enough to analyze sounds in a meaningful fashion but this Amp hits on all 8 cylinders (and 5 tubes) of audio entertainment.  I would highly recommend trying the Bugle Boy 12au7.



Hello KC-130

What bring the Amperex Holland Bugle Boy 12au7 tubes compared to the stock tubes ?


----------



## Pictograms

The idea of active speakers for the MKII is very appealing, has anyone else tried any with it?


----------



## KC-130

cfranchi said:


> Hello KC-130
> 
> What bring the Amperex Holland Bugle Boy 12au7 tubes compared to the stock tubes ?



For the first seven months of owning the MKii I used only the stock tubes.  Their background was dead silent and the stage presentation was, and still is, inviting and entertaining.  To my ears, the Bugle Boy tubes bring an enhancement that's very akin to using an entirely different DAC.  Having already played a variety of DACs with the MKii, I had to double-check my setup when I first heard the Bugle Boys... just to be certain the tubes were the only component I had changed.  What I heard was a presentation slightly more forward and with a noticeably expanded mid-range and more articulate highs.  But the feature I appreciate the most is the even blacker background I've already come to enjoy with this Amp.
I have a WA6SE sitting adjacent to the Cayin and the Cayin is every bit as good as the Woo.
At some point, one of them will begin to stand out and that will be the one I keep but I don't really look forward to selling either one. 
They are each as much a piece of art as they are of function.  It's more likely that I just put one of them in another room on display for a while.
I like how these Amps make a statement wherever they're placed.
So, the net of it is that I'm keeping the Bugle Boys installed for the foreseeable future while I continue the progression through other headphones.
I haven't updated the photos of my setup in a while but I currently have the Cayin in a wireless Auralic pairing.
The Auralic will soon find a new position with the ARCAM A19 & KEF LS50's (All-Black Edition) and one of my Chord DACs will resume its roll with the Cayin.


----------



## KC-130

Pictograms said:


> The idea of active speakers for the MKII is very appealing, has anyone else tried any with it?


I've yet to hear a set of active speakers that I would choose over headphones or passive speakers.  So, I do hope someone has a good recommendation.  
It's not easy to cram a worthy Amp into the confines of a speaker housing and many of the recent day offerings also cram a DAC in their as well...as though they're packing luggage for a trip.


----------



## Andykong

KC-130 said:


> I've yet to hear a set of active speakers that I would choose over headphones or passive speakers.  So, I do hope someone has a good recommendation.
> It's not easy to cram a worthy Amp into the confines of a speaker housing and many of the recent day offerings also cram a DAC in their as well...as though they're packing luggage for a trip.



There are two desktop active speakers that stands out to my preference, one is Dynaudio BM5a (or 6a if you have very big table), the other is PSI A14.  Unfortunately I don't have the opportunity to audition them with HA-1Amk2, I'll be interested to find out if they works out fine.


----------



## Andykong

2018 is a special year to Cayin because this is our 25th Anniversary, we have delivered several milestone products that summarized our effort in past three four years. We are fortunate to have customers who take us seriously and valued our contribution. Our highest gratitude and appreciation on this special day – we are so grateful for your support and we are looking forward to a fruitful and exciting 2019, and we hope you'll be there with us. Happy Thanksgiving Day!


----------



## Sorgiulio

Hi, has anyone tried this amp with the LCD-2 Classic? Would it be a god pairing? I heard LCD-2C don't really like all-tube amps.
Thanks!!


----------



## talmadge

I have tried both the LCD X and the LCD 2 closed with the Cayin with very good results


----------



## Sorgiulio

Thanks talmadge. Did you notice any problem with impedance matching with the LCD2? I'm not a tech expert, I only know that tube amps have higher output impedance and my LCD-2C are a low impedance headphone. 
I like the fulness and musicality typical of tube amps but where I am now I can't test any. I could get this amp for a good price, I love how it looks and read very good reviews. I'm just not sure it's going to work well with the headphones I have at the moment.


----------



## Pictograms

The impedance matching lets you get very low output. So I think you will be okay, I use Multi driver BA iems on mine with no issues


----------



## Sorgiulio

OK, I've read the whole thread and finally decided to pull the trigger. Wish me luck


----------



## Pictograms

Let us know how the LCDs pair, I have been looking at trying some planars but never get around to it...


----------



## Orang_sabar

Hi all,

Will the use of power filter have a significant effect to ha1a mk2?

Thanks


----------



## Andykong

Orang_sabar said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Will the use of power filter have a significant effect to ha1a mk2?
> 
> Thanks



It depends on your household power supply and the quality of the Power conditioner. Some user swear on the clarity and 3D improvement after adding a isolation transformer, some complain that the filters in the Power Conditioner has reduced the liveliness of the music. 

I live in a apartment type building, with 8 units in one floor, and 34 Floor in one building, so the power supply suffers a lot of interference from all sorts of heavy duty electrical appliance. I use a Regen Power Conditioner (something like PS Audio P5) to support my complete personal audio system, I think that works pretty well with me, but I am not sure if my experience can be generalised to your situation


----------



## Orang_sabar

Thank you  for your feedback


Andykong said:


> It depends on your household power supply and the quality of the Power conditioner. Some user swear on the clarity and 3D improvement after adding a isolation transformer, some complain that the filters in the Power Conditioner has reduced the liveliness of the music.
> 
> I live in a apartment type building, with 8 units in one floor, and 34 Floor in one building, so the power supply suffers a lot of interference from all sorts of heavy duty electrical appliance. I use a Regen Power Conditioner (something like PS Audio P5) to support my complete personal audio system, I think that works pretty well with me, but I am not sure if my experience can be generalised to your situation


----------



## Pictograms

Although not quite what you want, I have a Ifi ipurifier and it does filter out noise that my laptops terrible power supply adds. Very noticeable but that may just be because my laptop is SO noisy when it’s pluged in.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Andykong said:


> It depends on your household power supply and the quality of the Power conditioner. Some user swear on the clarity and 3D improvement after adding a isolation transformer, some complain that the filters in the Power Conditioner has reduced the liveliness of the music.
> 
> I live in a apartment type building, with 8 units in one floor, and 34 Floor in one building, so the power supply suffers a lot of interference from all sorts of heavy duty electrical appliance. I use a Regen Power Conditioner (something like PS Audio P5) to support my complete personal audio system, I think that works pretty well with me, but I am not sure if my experience can be generalised to your situation



I plugged my tube amps through a APC AVR recently and the sound was horrible, low end bass and dynamics were muted, only left the treble.  

Power regeneration is probably best, but for me I just fitted an unswitched Furutech NCF wall socket, the eTP80 power board and using their NCF power connectors + cable through the unfiltered sockets on the power board to hook up the tube amps.  Nice black background, eliminated the residual noise that the amp was picking up from power.


----------



## noobchu

Hi Everybody. I just got one cayin HA-1A mkII since about 3 weeks. I think I've read all this thread before buying one^^ 

First gorgeous piece of gear <3

Some trouble of noise floor that I almost solved  : 
- something looking like white noise => by plugging the  pre-out to something (luna eclipse help a little, cayin C5 helps a lot..) 
- Noise coming from my computer through the USB of my dac (Xonar essence STU) => using toslink and remove the USB cable from the dac. (other usb dac same problem ex dragonfly black)

I've still some low noise lookings like ground loop that are quite audible with HD800s and getting higher when rising the gain knob. I've tried to use a Furman AC210 and it doesn't change anything. still listenable... But a bit anoying^^.

Next step find some great 12au7, because I find some part of the sound too recessed ^^


----------



## Pictograms

If you have a cable with a lifted ground you can check if you have a ground loop, I found PSAudio to have a awsome walk through to locate a ground loop. 
If you really want to get rid of it you can get this https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HumX--ebtech-hum-by-ground-loop-hum-exterminator
I keep thinking about it so I don’t have to worry about my setup, but I don’t have any issues currently.
I’m sorry I can’t help with your white noise issue but I have found I get weird noise from my mojo like white noise if I have it plugged and connected in but not on, but I think you have a different issue?


----------



## Andykong (Jan 30, 2019)

noobchu said:


> Hi Everybody. I just got one cayin HA-1A mkII since about 3 weeks. I think I've read all this thread before buying one^^
> 
> First gorgeous piece of gear <3
> 
> ...



Nice work,  tube amplifier is relatively more prone to interference than solid state amplifier.  The first trick you did is to remove "open loop" which is a problem that you won't find in solid state amplifiers.  I always thought the switching power supply of the PC is evil and USB cable is a lesser problem.  Did you use standard USB cable from computer accessories shops?  If that is the case, maybe a not-so-expansive aftermarket USB cable can also solve the problem.  I am not recommending anything exotic, only something like the Super USB cable.  In my experience, some DACs didn't implements appropriate filters to eliminate the noise transmit from the digital source (especially computers), a well constructed USB cable with "One twisted pair for data and one twisted pair for power, individual screens for minimal interference" structure might solve the problem.

I agree with @Pictograms that the trouble shooting guide from PS Audio is one of the best publicly available tool to deal with ground hum, I have recommended that to several HA-1Amk2 and HA-300 customers having similar problems.  Maybe you can start with a cheater plug, once you have confirmed the problem,  you'll have a better idea on what should be done.


----------



## Andykong

We would like to thank all our friends, customers and partners for your continuous support throughout the year. We shall take a short break to reunion with our family and celebrate the Chinese New Year. We shall resume office on 14th February 2019.


----------



## Orang_sabar

noobchu said:


> Hi Everybody. I just got one cayin HA-1A mkII since about 3 weeks. I think I've read all this thread before buying one^^
> 
> First gorgeous piece of gear <3
> 
> ...



I think it is electrical grounding issue. I used to have that issue in my audio setup. I just contact electrical services to add grounding cable to my home electrical system. Then the issue was solved.


----------



## noobchu (Feb 3, 2019)

Hi everybody , thanks for all your advise.

I've already read the psaudio trouble shooting guide. I'm french and there is no Hum X equivalent here^^ or I didn't find it. I'll try to fix it later, it's ok to listen to with the knob set on low gain.

I've a last question : Is it important to change the 2 12au7 at the same time with matched pair tube ?

I Mean it's V1 and V2, I can just first change the V1 which is the most significant in the sound characteristic ? no ?

or the right channel went in one of the tube and the left in the other. ^^


----------



## TylersEclectic

noobchu said:


> Hi everybody , thanks for all your advise.
> 
> I've already read the psaudio trouble shooting guide. I'm french and there is no Hum X equivalent here^^ or I didn't find it. I'll try to fix it later, it's ok to listen to with the knob set on low gain.
> 
> ...



I had an issue with ground hum and narrowed it down to the RGB LED lights in my keyboard. I turn those off and don't have any issue. But it was a pain figuring out what was causing it... started by unplugging every device from my MacMini(2018) one at a time excluding the DAC, then once determined it was the keyboard randomly turned off the LED lights and voila, no more hum...outside of new tube hum...which I'm hoping will go away soon...or I may have to pick up some more tubes.


----------



## TylersEclectic (Feb 13, 2019)

Been really enjoying this amp! I just need to get the tubes right, will be ordering more tubes soon. Currently have all Tungsol tubes in all positions. Also the HD820 were on loan and not mine. They are a fun listen though.


----------



## jasonho

@Andykong 

How does kennerton Odin sound when paired up with this amp?

Do you have any reseller in sg carrying this?


----------



## UsoppNoKami (Feb 14, 2019)

Just sharing:

Schiit Freya preamp with:
2x Tung Sol VT231 BGRP gain stage
2x Mullard ECC33 output stage

Cayin HA-1A mk2 amp with:
2x 12au7 Telefunken (smooth plates)
2x EL84 amperex bugle boy treble clef
1x RCA 13DT5 rectifier

Beautiful warm, airy and detailed sound with  deep, solid bass on the Focal Elex, Quad ERA-1, Hifiman HE-560, Arya, HE-6SE and HE1000SE.


----------



## TylersEclectic

UsoppNoKami said:


> Just sharing:
> 
> Schiit Freya preamp with:
> 2x Tung Sol VT231 BGRP gain stage
> ...


What adapters are in your Cayin for the 12au7s? And why? I'm relatively new to tubes so curious to learn more!


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Darthpool said:


> What adapters are in your Cayin for the 12au7s? And why? I'm relatively new to tubes so curious to learn more!



They are socket savers


----------



## TylersEclectic

UsoppNoKami said:


> They are socket savers


Thank you! I'll have to look into those...


----------



## mbphotox

Using a tube amp myself (connected to my soundcard in the computer), I had some annoying sounds too. They could be eliminated by using a so-called DTI (dual transformer/isolator). http://artproaudio.com/product/dti-dual-transformer-isolator/
Just ordered a second unit because my home theater rig in the living room has the same issue with the studio speakers there.

Maybe this helps.


P.S.: If my Destiny Audio Aristaios mk II ever dies on me, I'll get the Cayin HA-1A. 
Amazing piece of art that looks better than ANY headphone amp I have ever seen before.


----------



## pichu

Has anyone got to compare this to entry level Glenn, Feliks, Amps&Sound, etc tube amps? Thoughts?


----------



## Pictograms (Feb 19, 2019)

mbphotox said:


> Using a tube amp myself (connected to my soundcard in the computer), I had some annoying sounds too. They could be eliminated by using a so-called DTI (dual transformer/isolator). http://artproaudio.com/product/dti-dual-transformer-isolator/
> Just ordered a second unit because my home theater rig in the living room has the same issue with the studio speakers there.
> 
> Maybe this helps.
> ...


That ART isolator looks very cool, I may go and get one to try. I’ve used some other of there products in the past and they are great for the price.
What kind of sounds did it eliminate, I get various noise sometimes at different times in the day, I’m pretty sure it relates to my apartment neighbors... but who can be sure.


----------



## Orang_sabar

Hi all,

Today I made horrible mistake.
I accidentally plug the 12au7 tube in 12dt5 cayin ha1a mk2 tube socket, and I plug the 12dt5 in 12au7 socket.
Then the 12dt5 tube socket release electrical spark, smoke and burn smell.
Then i realize that I make mistake and switch back the tube.
Currently I don't hear sound problem.
But is it will be alright if I continue listen to the amp?
Do I make damage to my Cayin amp?


Thank you


----------



## mbphotox

Pictograms said:


> That ART isolator looks very cool, I may go and get one to try. I’ve used some other of there products in the past and they are great for the price.
> What kind of sounds did it eliminate, I get various noise sometimes at different times in the day, I’m pretty sure it relates to my apartment neighbors... but who can be sure.



In the living room, I have a nasty ground hum (you can tell because my laptop is quiet on battery, but makes loads of noise when plugged into the wall. Also, DAPs are quiet too.) and on my computer there was a hurtful high-pitched sound that was audible, whenever you moved the mouse. Volume setting on amp influenced this more.


----------



## noobchu

mbphotox said:


> In the living room, I have a nasty ground hum (you can tell because my laptop is quiet on battery, but makes loads of noise when plugged into the wall. Also, DAPs are quiet too.) and on my computer there was a hurtful high-pitched sound that was audible, whenever you moved the mouse. Volume setting on amp influenced this more.



To solve this problem, I'm using my dac with toslink and I've unpluged the usb cable. -> Usb was the making the noise, even when i was not set on usb for input. I've also tried with a dragonfly => same problem of noise. 

Cayin said good usb cable can fix that. I don't think so but.... may be^^


----------



## noobchu

I'm trying to understand the tube rolling possibilities of this unit. 

I've put just 1 12au7 a gold lion on the V1 position of the tube amp, and sound improves significantly (better imaging, less ressed mids...)

Is it a mistake ? cause everyone seems to say we should tuberole with matched pair... But in this case, what does mean the V1, V2, V3, V4 and V5 on top of the unit ? 

=s


----------



## Sorgiulio

As far as I understand, V1 and V2 are the preamp tubes, one per channel?
It would be good to know from Andy if they have to be a matched pair. I don't need to change anything right now as I'm loving it with stock tubes and my LCD2C. In the future though...


----------



## SnarfSnarf

I saw there are some Atticus owners in here, I’m 99% sure this is my next upgrade from my E-mu teaks that I have currently and I’ve picked this unit as my next amp for driving higher impedance cans. 

Has anyone tried this unit with a mimby as a source? If so what kind of tubes have you guys used to roll to compliment the signature of the mimby. My tastes are more toward warmer sound with rich midrange. I’m extremely sensitive to sharp and overly bright treble to the point of actual physical pain and headaches so something that avoids that is preferred. Genres are basically everything but classical music, lots of R&B, soul, jazz and hip hop with occasional Indy rock.


----------



## KC-130

I've used a mimby with the Cayin recently and Amperex-Holland Bugle Boy ECC82 drivers.
I didn't find anything particularly memorable about the combination but my Chord & Auralic DACs pair stunningly with it.
I also tried the mimby with a Pro iCAN, Mjolnir 2, and WA6-SE but found that the mimby just wasn't my taste.


----------



## Pictograms

I’m not sure if I remember anyone using Atticus in this thread, I’ve posted about using the Eikon which has amazing mids with the amp, but I can’t be very helpful since I’ve never used the mimby or Atticus.
It could be that the mimby being more linear(so I hear) would compliment the Atticus. 
Since my favorite with my Eikon are either chord mojo or my Yamaha rn-602. 
 The Yamaha is even warmer than the mojo and it pairs wonderfully.
I also find that this amp makes my T90s treble far less piercing with either dac. But that might just be a aspect of tube amps...
Anyway sorry I’m not more helpful


----------



## SnarfSnarf

No apologies, I appreciate the input either way. Just trying to gather as much information as possible to prevent myself from splurging on hundreds of dollars of tubes before I even receive the amp . Think the play might be to get a pair of Mullards, Bugle boys and golden lion's and decide for myself which set suits my tastes best.


----------



## project86

Sounds like a good plan to me - I can think of a good argument for all of those, depending on your musical taste. The HA-1A mk2 really rewards good tubes.


----------



## Pictograms

I’m using RAM labs re-branded diver tubes along with Yugoslavian power tubes. So far these are my favourite. I just find them to be very balanced.

I have stoped buying tubes for a bit, I just keep collecting them. I really didn’t think tubes would make such a noticeable difference to the tone.

If you find that the HA-1A mk2 ends up to romantic with the Atticus you can always try somen Jan-Phillips they can be had cheap and sound good while removing a bit of the romance. They pair really nice with my grados


----------



## SnarfSnarf

Pictograms said:


> I’m using RAM labs re-branded diver tubes along with Yugoslavian power tubes. So far these are my favourite. I just find them to be very balanced.
> 
> I have stoped buying tubes for a bit, I just keep collecting them. I really didn’t think tubes would make such a noticeable difference to the tone.
> 
> If you find that the HA-1A mk2 ends up to romantic with the Atticus you can always try somen Jan-Phillips they can be had cheap and sound good while removing a bit of the romance. They pair really nice with my grados



This is what I was afraid I would end up doing, I love the idea of tweaking and there's a ton of tubes out there that are very affordable that seem like fun to try out. Unfortunately for me, the way I like to buy things to satisfy my urges means I buy everything at once instead of the more sane approach of "one at a time". So I will be be buying the Cayin, Atticus, and tubes together so they all arrive at once so I'm going to limit myself to 3 sets that are highly regarded. Maybe I'll get lucky and will feel so satisfied with one of the sets that I don't want anymore...


----------



## project86

Maybe just hang on to the tubes you don't end up loving the most... they could actually increase in value. The tube market is strange.


----------



## SnarfSnarf

First 24 hours with my new toy and I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised with the performance of the unit. I've been A/B'ing the Cayin and my Magni 3 and even with the slight hiss through my E-Mu Teaks (I'm suspecting this is the stock 12au7's once my pair of NoS Mullards arrive I'll report back) I much prefer the Cayin. Sound is rich, layered and the bass hits with authority. Going through my range of test music this thing really pairs nicely with the Teaks for soul and R&B, I've been loving listening to Anderson Paak, D'Angelo, Jorja Smith, Kali Uchis and Steve Lacy on this thing so far. I'll eventually shift to more of rock in my collection but right now I can't get over how rich the bass notes hit in the lower registers.


----------



## noobchu

SnarfSnarf said:


> First 24 hours with my new toy and I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised with the performance of the unit. I've been A/B'ing the Cayin and my Magni 3 and even with the slight hiss through my E-Mu Teaks (I'm suspecting this is the stock 12au7's once my pair of NoS Mullards arrive I'll report back) I much prefer the Cayin. Sound is rich, layered and the bass hits with authority. Going through my range of test music this thing really pairs nicely with the Teaks for soul and R&B, I've been loving listening to Anderson Paak, D'Angelo, Jorja Smith, Kali Uchis and Steve Lacy on this thing so far. I'll eventually shift to more of rock in my collection but right now I can't get over how rich the bass notes hit in the lower registers.


Hi SnarfSnarf, I really hesitate to sending back mine because of the hiss and hum I get from the unit. (defective???). I was not abel to solve the hum trouble for the moment (not comming from the electricity, probably tube roll can solve it). For the Hiss connecting the pre-out to something isolated solved it. (no other way for me). => personnaly I use a RCA to Jack cable and connect the preout of my unit to my luna eclipse (almost perfect) but the best result is by putting this jack in my cayin (C5).... But it look's like this change a little bit the sound. (bad way good way... I don't know....) 

Can you try it ??? cause I don't know if my unit as got trouble or if it's normal =)


----------



## SnarfSnarf

noobchu said:


> Hi SnarfSnarf, I really hesitate to sending back mine because of the hiss and hum I get from the unit. (defective???). I was not abel to solve the hum trouble for the moment (not comming from the electricity, probably tube roll can solve it). For the Hiss connecting the pre-out to something isolated solved it. (no other way for me). => personnaly I use a RCA to Jack cable and connect the preout of my unit to my luna eclipse (almost perfect) but the best result is by putting this jack in my cayin (C5).... But it look's like this change a little bit the sound. (bad way good way... I don't know....)
> 
> Can you try it ??? cause I don't know if my unit as got trouble or if it's normal =)



I did try some tube rolling and the noise floor improvement was noticeable immediatley with the low impedence high sensitivity on the E-Mu Teaks. Unfortunately one of my 1950's Mullards that I bought is extremely microphonic and I'll be returning it but the hiss definitely got better with different 12AU7's.


----------



## CrocodileDundee

UsoppNoKami said:


> They are socket savers


Hey Mate, how do you like the synergy between ZMF and Cayin HA-1A MKII?


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Giullian said:


> Hey Mate, how do you like the synergy between ZMF and Cayin HA-1A MKII?



Hi, I have set up the tube roll in my HA-1A specifically to match my HE1000SE, not the Verite. The Cayin amp is quite transparent in showing the character of the tubes , so it is probably a nice match for Verite with 12au7 telefunkens for the air and soundstage, and a warm power tube like bugle boys or maybe try run mullard 12au7 drivers with telefunken el84 power tubes for speed. I listen to the Verite on my Cavali LP running 12au7 mullards & Freya+ preamp with telefunken 12au7s + Mullard ECC33s


----------



## Orang_sabar

Anybody know ha1a mkii power consumption when idle condition, when we do not play a song, volume set at zero. 
All I know that the power consumption is 65 Watt, is it when cayin volume set at max or at any volume?

Thanks

CC: @Andykong


----------



## Bostonears

Orang_sabar said:


> Anybody know ha1a mkii power consumption when idle condition, when we do not play a song, volume set at zero.
> All I know that the power consumption is 65 Watt, is it when cayin volume set at max or at any volume?
> 
> CC: @Andykong


I think the power consumption is constant regardless of the volume setting or input signal. (If there's any change, it's very slight.)


----------



## Andykong

Orang_sabar said:


> Anybody know ha1a mkii power consumption when idle condition, when we do not play a song, volume set at zero.
> All I know that the power consumption is 65 Watt, is it when cayin volume set at max or at any volume?
> 
> Thanks
> ...



Honestly, no idea.  Sorry.
We didn't test the power consumption of tube amplifier when unloaded, and technically tube amplifier will never enter idle condition after power up.


----------



## Khronos

I wonder how this would do with Planar IEMs since it seems to make excellent synergy with the aforementioned type of driver. Plus, one of its output options mentions a minimal output impedance of  8 ohms, coupled with the fact this seems to be a hybrid it leads me to wonder whether these could drive... say, iSines.


----------



## jerick70

So how does this MKII compare to the MKI?  I have a MKI right now and love it.  Any advantages to upgrading to MKII?


----------



## Khronos

Has anybody tried using this little beast as a pre-amp?


----------



## Bostonears

Khronos said:


> Has anybody tried using this little beast as a pre-amp?


Yep. And it's friggin' great.


----------



## Khronos

Bostonears said:


> Yep. And it's friggin' great.



Ok, thanks!


----------



## CrocodileDundee

Pre amp for the LS50W ?


----------



## Andykong

Khronos said:


> I wonder how this would do with Planar IEMs since it seems to make excellent synergy with the aforementioned type of driver. Plus, one of its output options mentions a minimal output impedance of  8 ohms, coupled with the fact this seems to be a hybrid it leads me to wonder whether these could drive... say, iSines.



When we developed the HA-1Amk2, we didn't have a lot of planar headphones available, we used Mrspeakers Alpha Dog, HiFiman HE6 and Audeze LCD3 in betweens, so it should work with iSines alright.


----------



## Andykong

Giullian said:


> Pre amp for the LS50W ?



It should work, but we didn't try this pair specification so we can't comment on the tonal balance and  choice of tube for this combination.


----------



## Andykong

jerick70 said:


> So how does this MKII compare to the MKI?  I have a MKI right now and love it.  Any advantages to upgrading to MKII?



The Mk2 was a complete redesign.  We gave up the speaker output and optimized the circuit for headphone application solely. We have developed new output transformer and adding the tube regulator, and we have tested the amplifier with Planar headphones during the development stage.  So the changes are quite significant.


----------



## mbphotox

@Andykong is there some place where one could test the mk2 in Switzerland?

I don't like the idea of spending 1'000+ $ for this amp and end up not liking it. (they are sold at quite the huge prices in Europe)


----------



## Sorgiulio (Sep 19, 2019)

Hi guys, please advice as I'm totally new to tubes. I'm on a budget but I want to replace the stock Cayin branded tubes after almost a year and I have a couple of questions:
Do tubes need to be necessarily a matched pair or two tubes of the same model but sold individually will do? What's the difference?
Also, will the following fit the HA-1A MK2 and which one would you recommend between:
JJ ecc82 Gold Pin (not matched)
JJ ecc82 (matched pair)
Electro Harmonix 12AU7EH Gold (not matched)
Tung-Sol Re-Issue 12AU7/ecc82 (matched pair)
Finally, a matched pair of JJ ECC802s which are apparently the best of the JJ's in this list when it comes to low frequencies (very appealing to me) but I'm not sure they are compatible with 12AU7 circuits.

My preference is for warm and smooth sound. Any info on compatibility and sound characteristics you want to share will be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks!


----------



## Bostonears (Sep 19, 2019)

Sorgiulio said:


> Hi guys, please advice as I'm totally new to tubes. I'm on a budget but I want to replace the stock Cayin branded tubes after almost a year and I have a couple of questions:
> Do tubes need to be necessarily a matched pair or two tubes of the same model but sold individually will do? What's the difference?
> Also, will the following fit the HA-1A MK2 and which one would you recommend between:
> JJ ecc82 Gold Pin (not matched)
> ...


For the Cayin amp, you should indeed use matched pairs. Two individual tubes of the same model, depending on how unmatched they are, may make the two channels produce different volume from each other.

If your reason for tube rolling is to obtain a warmer and smoother sound, I'm not sure any of the ones you've listed will get you that. My experience with JJ and EH ECC82 tubes is they tend to be clear sounding but somewhat dry. The Tung-Sol re-issue could be good but I haven't heard those. I've seen good reviews of the JJ ECC802 (which are compatible, just long plate), but also haven't heard them myself.

My suggestion would be either:
a) Among new production 12AU7/ECC82 tubes, spring for the Genalex Gold Lion
b) Search eBay and other sources for vintage 12AU7/ECC82 tubes in excellent or NOS (new old stock) condition. Decent choices include RCA and Sylvania, as well as the usual vintage Mullard and Telefunken. The Sylvania pair I have sound surprisingly good. (New production Mullards apparently just license the brand name, but aren't the same design or sound quality as the old Mullards.)


----------



## Pictograms (Sep 19, 2019)

Sorgiulio said:


> Hi guys, please advice as I'm totally new to tubes. I'm on a budget but I want to replace the stock Cayin branded tubes after almost a year and I have a couple of questions:
> Do tubes need to be necessarily a matched pair or two tubes of the same model but sold individually will do? What's the difference?
> Also, will the following fit the HA-1A MK2 and which one would you recommend between:
> JJ ecc82 Gold Pin (not matched)
> ...



As long as your pre-amp tubes are the same kind you don’t really need to match them. But if you switch your power tubes they will need to be a matched pair. But having matched doesn’t hurt...


What are you looking for from your new tube?
Different sound?
Quieter?
Just want a change?

I have the Tung-sols, they are good... but I can’t actually remember what they sound like... haven’t used them in awhile


----------



## Pictograms

Sorgiulio said:


> Hi guys, please advice as I'm totally new to tubes. I'm on a budget but I want to replace the stock Cayin branded tubes after almost a year and I have a couple of questions:
> Do tubes need to be necessarily a matched pair or two tubes of the same model but sold individually will do? What's the difference?
> Also, will the following fit the HA-1A MK2 and which one would you recommend between:
> JJ ecc82 Gold Pin (not matched)
> ...


Apparently in regards to the tung-sol I thought 
“The Tong sol tubes are quite nice, they add more sparkle to the too end and have tighter bass.‘

So I would guess that is further away from warm and smooth


----------



## 486930

Sorry if this is a stupid question: what is the difference between the HA-1A mk2 and the CS-1H? They look exactly the same....

Mads


----------



## Pictograms

Malmbak said:


> Sorry if this is a stupid question: what is the difference between the HA-1A mk2 and the CS-1H? They look exactly the same....
> 
> Mads


Is it anywhere except German venders? I thought it was just the German name...


----------



## project86

Looks to be the exact same thing renamed for a different market.


----------



## 486930

Yeah, it’s German I think, but I’ve just seen it for sale in Sweden as well. At a retailer. Anyway, thanks, I just wondered as I am thinking of buying it

Mads


----------



## jerick70

Malmbak said:


> Yeah, it’s German I think, but I’ve just seen it for sale in Sweden as well. At a retailer. Anyway, thanks, I just wondered as I am thinking of buying it
> 
> Mads


Great tube amp.  I love mine.  Fits in small spaces too, unlike most tube amps of this caliber.


----------



## 486930

Ok, so I bought one used and the guy had used it sparringly with the stock tubes. I use it with my Nightowls in my vinyl rig. It really sounds quite good with a nice mix of warmth and detail. But I'm gonna need some other tubes to tighten up the bass. Is there a store that sell tubes who would be happy to answer all my inquiries?

Thanks


----------



## Pictograms

If you don’t mind shipping from N.A upscale audio and TheTubeStore are very responsive. Thetubestore has a lot of info on its website that might help you.
Although I’m sure there is something in Europe, I just wouldn’t know...


----------



## 486930

Perfect. Thanks man


----------



## UsoppNoKami

@Malmbak warm power tubes - Amperex/Bugle Boys EL84 O getter and D getter type, both great choices. There is also the Mullard square getter EL84 for hard hitting bass but the Amperex tubes have better overall balance and a sweet tone. 

Telefunken 12au7 smooth plate drivers are a great match for these output tubes, and a RCA 12DT5 rectifier can also be sourced to give a warmer overall tone


----------



## 486930

Thanks. I'm going down the rabbit hole


----------



## Pictograms

So what’s everyone’s current set-up? Has it changed since you got the HA1?


----------



## itchyyy

Just got this amp 2 days ago, am absolutely loving it. This thing is criminally underrated, it's got the looks, the performance even on stock tubes is very nice, got some genalex gold lions coming as per recommendations from much earlier in this thread, driver tubes only for now (12AU7), but looking into Amperex Bugle Boy EL84's in the future. This is my first real tube amp, wanted to go big with tubes right out the gate, no floundering around with hybrids trying to get something out of them they cannot do, and I already purchased a SW51+, so whenever that gets here I'll have an OTL to compare the HA1A-MK2 with, as well as a few more sennheisers that really benefit from tubes.

Cayin made a brilliant amp here, and Monoprice didn't even come close to doing it justice in their clone. This thing was worth every penny. Anyone have more up to date recommendations as far as tubes go?


----------



## UsoppNoKami

itchyyy said:


> Just got this amp 2 days ago, am absolutely loving it. This thing is criminally underrated, it's got the looks, the performance even on stock tubes is very nice, got some genalex gold lions coming as per recommendations from much earlier in this thread, driver tubes only for now (12AU7), but looking into Amperex Bugle Boy EL84's in the future. This is my first real tube amp, wanted to go big with tubes right out the gate, no floundering around with hybrids trying to get something out of them they cannot do, and I already purchased a SW51+, so whenever that gets here I'll have an OTL to compare the HA1A-MK2 with, as well as a few more sennheisers that really benefit from tubes.
> 
> Cayin made a brilliant amp here, and Monoprice didn't even come close to doing it justice in their clone. This thing was worth every penny. Anyone have more up to date recommendations as far as tubes go?



Bugle Boy EL84 - both D getter and O getter variants sound great. Very balanced bass,w without getting muddy. 

NOS Mullard EL84 nice too, heaviest hitting bass but can be a bit too much if your driver tube is also warm. 

12au7 - Telefunken long smooth plate, Mullard long smooth plate square getter, RCA/Baldwin. 

I personally don't care much for the Tung Sol 12DT5. Have tried Sylvania and RCA rectifiers, my fav is the RCA 12DT5. Smoother overall tone than the supplied NOS Tung sol. 

My 1 cent


----------



## dpump

I agree that the HA-1A is a very good amp, especially with planars. It is however somewhat noisy on low impedance phones like Grado and Denon. No noise on planars and higher impedance phones.

I disagree with the statement that the Monoprice tube amp doesn't come close to the HA-1A. I received the Monoprice 3 weeks ago and after switching to 6N3P-DR driver tubes and a Toshiba 6080 output tube I have been very happy with it. Totally silent even driving 32-ohm Grados and the 6080 output tube gives a very full and musical sound. The Monoprice amp is a bargain at the current price of $249.99. And if you buy it and don't like it you can return it for full credit.


----------



## itchyyy

dpump said:


> I agree that the HA-1A is a very good amp, especially with planars. It is however somewhat noisy on low impedance phones like Grado and Denon. No noise on planars and higher impedance phones.
> 
> I disagree with the statement that the Monoprice tube amp doesn't come close to the HA-1A. I received the Monoprice 3 weeks ago and after switching to 6N3P-DR driver tubes and a Toshiba 6080 output tube I have been very happy with it. Totally silent even driving 32-ohm Grados and the 6080 output tube gives a very full and musical sound. The Monoprice amp is a bargain at the current price of $249.99. And if you buy it and don't like it you can return it for full credit.


Was speaking on looks. The monoprice is pretty rough looking, the cayin is a work of art.


----------



## itchyyy

UsoppNoKami said:


> Bugle Boy EL84 - both D getter and O getter variants sound great. Very balanced bass,w without getting muddy.
> 
> NOS Mullard EL84 nice too, heaviest hitting bass but can be a bit too much if your driver tube is also warm.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I'll check these out


----------



## dpump

The Monoprice looks better in person than in the ads. It is a big black box but the front panel is nicely done and has a taper on either side that really improves the looks. Considering the price difference between the Cayin and Monoprice I am very satisfied with the looks and the performance. I almost wonder if Cayin manufactures the Monoprice as they do have some things in common, specifically the adjustable output impedance and the overall look.


----------



## itchyyy

dpump said:


> The Monoprice looks better in person than in the ads. It is a big black box but the front panel is nicely done and has a taper on either side that really improves the looks. Considering the price difference between the Cayin and Monoprice I am very satisfied with the looks and the performance. I almost wonder if Cayin manufactures the Monoprice as they do have some things in common, specifically the adjustable output impedance and the overall look.


I originally planned on purchasing both, auditioning and returning one. But after receiving the Cayin I became ok with the price, and decided to keep it, lol.


----------



## Jon L

itchyyy said:


> I originally planned on purchasing both, auditioning and returning one. But after receiving the Cayin I became ok with the price, and decided to keep it, lol.



The Cayin reportedly improves greatly with better tubes, so fun times ahead.  
I do see some generic coupling caps below the tubes, likely generic polypropylene caps which is expected at this price point, so I would expect significant improvements in SQ with simple coupling cap upgrade. 
Miflex copper foil or Jupiter copper foil would sound mighty nice in there...


----------



## Pictograms

dpump said:


> I agree that the HA-1A is a very good amp, especially with planars. It is however somewhat noisy on low impedance phones like Grado and Denon. No noise on planars and higher impedance phones.
> 
> I disagree with the statement that the Monoprice tube amp doesn't come close to the HA-1A. I received the Monoprice 3 weeks ago and after switching to 6N3P-DR driver tubes and a Toshiba 6080 output tube I have been very happy with it. Totally silent even driving 32-ohm Grados and the 6080 output tube gives a very full and musical sound. The Monoprice amp is a bargain at the current price of $249.99. And if you buy it and don't like it you can return it for full credit.


You find the amp noisy with Grados? I have 60i and find it to be very quiet, although I have some tubes that are indeed very noisy...
I found tube rolling affected the Cayin greatly and then there is the noise of the tubes too like western electric 12au7 sound very linear with great treble sparked but are quite noisy so I don’t use them


----------



## jerick70

dpump said:


> I agree that the HA-1A is a very good amp, especially with planars. It is however somewhat noisy on low impedance phones like Grado and Denon. No noise on planars and higher impedance phones.
> 
> I disagree with the statement that the Monoprice tube amp doesn't come close to the HA-1A. I received the Monoprice 3 weeks ago and after switching to 6N3P-DR driver tubes and a Toshiba 6080 output tube I have been very happy with it. Totally silent even driving 32-ohm Grados and the 6080 output tube gives a very full and musical sound. The Monoprice amp is a bargain at the current price of $249.99. And if you buy it and don't like it you can return it for full credit.


The noise could be coming from your source too.  I had that problem and switched sources and it went away.


----------



## itchyyy

Jon L said:


> The Cayin reportedly improves greatly with better tubes, so fun times ahead.
> I do see some generic coupling caps below the tubes, likely generic polypropylene caps which is expected at this price point, so I would expect significant improvements in SQ with simple coupling cap upgrade.
> Miflex copper foil or Jupiter copper foil would sound mighty nice in there...


I will have to look into this, I'm very new to tubes, purchased a SW51+, but it is not here yet, and then this. I wanted to dive in deep with real amps, not dip my toe in with hybrids (don't get it twisted, I like hybrids, they're just not the same as something like this). So I am quite unfamiliar with this, however I will do some research, I'm always down for tinkering and making crap better using a soldering iron


----------



## itchyyy (Dec 16, 2019)

dpump said:


> I agree that the HA-1A is a very good amp, especially with planars. It is however somewhat noisy on low impedance phones like Grado and Denon. No noise on planars and higher impedance phones.



OK so obviously I cannot speak for your experience, however I might have an idea of what you're talking about, and I too  blamed the amp....at first....

I was getting a lot of noise the first 2 days of owning this amp, it wasn't like it was malfunctioning, it was just slightly more than I'd expect, and I also realized there can be a whole lot of vibration pick up through the tubes, which is fine. However it wasn't until I started up a game(on my PC) while listening to some music (from my PC) and I was stunned to find out I could basically hear my GPU's power draw through my headphones. Direct correlation to the fps on screen, to the sound, turned out to be a ground loop, and it seems to have been solved by bringing an extension cord and changing outlets. That solved I also realized my RCA cable was picking up noise, and had to move some things that were along the path, however that too is pretty much solved. I also re-seated the stock tubes, and that helped as well to where the noise was only audible when impedance was set to 300+, or volume very loud. I don't know how sensitive Blon BL03's are, but they were pretty quiet (not set to 300 ohms though, obviously).

Not to say you don't know a ground loop from amp noise, but there are a LOT of things that can cause noise from this amp that I've realized in a very short time, and stock tubes have a fair amount of noise, considering, but a tube swap has brought this amp to THX amp levels of silence. It's really stunning to me, but for sure the amp itself has a very low noise floor, but it's sensitive to a lot of things, what's weird though is this amp caught the ground loop, but switching to my thx 887 from same dac (just from xlr outs), and I hear silence. The dac filtering for xlr but not unbal out? Odd... Or the ha1a-mk2 was the thing causing the ground loop specifically and therefore only heard when using it. I don't know, i'm not well versed in electrical engineering so it's all confusing to me.



Another slightly related thing to share......

I upgraded the driver tubes. Genalex Gold Lion ECC82 (12AU7). First off, the noise? gone, completely silent, even if set to 600 ohm OI, only when the volume is set past 12, does noise begin to appear, and only barely. I was shocked by what swapping 2 tubes did to the noise floor, it wasn't even very loud to begin with, but man.... The sound of them also significant change to the stock tubes, but this isn't about that.... Upon installing the new tubes, I found the right channel wasn't working, at all. Dead silent, even though both tubes were clearly seated fully, and warm. I re-seated the right tube and the right channel had sound again, however along with it, came noise. A lot of it, volume having no effect on it, unplugging the inputs as well. Clearly the tube was doing it, in addition this specific tube had massive vibration pick up, and is making a sound that is like a wave, growing in volume. Like an ocean wave kinda sound, someone told me that it's called tube rush, and I'm wondering what to do about it. The other tube in the matched pair I got works brilliantly, dead silent, no vibration pick up even, but this other one scares me with the noises it decides to make randomly, as in, it will be working great, no noise, no vibration pick up even, then out of nowhere it'll hit the right channel so loud with noise it scares you. Did I get a defective tube? Should I hit up the seller (was an amazon purchase) or is there some way of dealing with this. I quite like these new tubes, the sound is very nice, and the lack of noise (when working right) sounds on par with THX amp silence, truly impressive, but having one tube acting this way isn't good...


----------



## Pictograms

itchyyy said:


> OK so obviously I cannot speak for your experience, however I might have an idea of what you're talking about, and I too  blamed the amp....at first....
> 
> I was getting a lot of noise the first 2 days of owning this amp, it wasn't like it was malfunctioning, it was just slightly more than I'd expect, and I also realized there can be a whole lot of vibration pick up through the tubes, which is fine. However it wasn't until I started up a game(on my PC) while listening to some music (from my PC) and I was stunned to find out I could basically hear my GPU's power draw through my headphones. Direct correlation to the fps on screen, to the sound, turned out to be a ground loop, and it seems to have been solved by bringing an extension cord and changing outlets. That solved I also realized my RCA cable was picking up noise, and had to move some things that were along the path, however that too is pretty much solved. I also re-seated the stock tubes, and that helped as well to where the noise was only audible when impedance was set to 300+, or volume very loud. I don't know how sensitive Blon BL03's are, but they were pretty quiet (not set to 300 ohms though, obviously).
> 
> ...


Are the pins on the bad tube very dirty? 
It could also be especially sensitive to your wifi or cellphone signal, you can try moving your router or phone further from the amp.
The most issue I’ve had was a tubes that picked up wifi signals and I would get fairly loud radio static sounds randomly.
But you can reach out to the seller and ask what they think, I don’t know about amazon but when I buy tubes the sellers are very helpful and normally have a warranty in case the tubes get damaged in transit


----------



## Jon L

I assume you tried switching the Gold Lion tubes from left to right channel of amp and also try the stock tubes again to make sure it's that one tube?
If that's the case, the seller will take it back and exchange it for you.  This sort of thing happens all the time with new tubes.  Usually, if a tube is not DOA and survives a week or so, it's good from then on.  
I recently received some new Gold Lion 12AU7's, and it's a terrific sounding tube, especially for new production.  I would certainly seek a replacement (or matched pair replacement).


----------



## Andykong

itchyyy said:


> OK so obviously I cannot speak for your experience, however I might have an idea of what you're talking about, and I too  blamed the amp....at first....
> 
> I was getting a lot of noise the first 2 days of owning this amp, it wasn't like it was malfunctioning, it was just slightly more than I'd expect, and I also realized there can be a whole lot of vibration pick up through the tubes, which is fine. However it wasn't until I started up a game(on my PC) while listening to some music (from my PC) and I was stunned to find out I could basically hear my GPU's power draw through my headphones. Direct correlation to the fps on screen, to the sound, turned out to be a ground loop, and it seems to have been solved by bringing an extension cord and changing outlets. That solved I also realized my RCA cable was picking up noise, and had to move some things that were along the path, however that too is pretty much solved. I also re-seated the stock tubes, and that helped as well to where the noise was only audible when impedance was set to 300+, or volume very loud. I don't know how sensitive Blon BL03's are, but they were pretty quiet (not set to 300 ohms though, obviously).
> 
> ...



Your sharing on tackling the noise of HA-1Amk2 is excellent.  I hope all my customers will spend more attention to the ground loop and interference issue before they give up on their tube headphone amplifier.  The source of interference are indeed full of surprised, you have encountered interference from GPU utilisation?  Some time ago an user reported that his interference was coming from the backlight of his keyboard, once h e disconnected the keyboard, the system go silent immediately.

There is another trick that we commonly use to verify interference.  Unplugging all cable and only connect one source to the HA1Amk2 with on pair of interconnect, this close reduce the open loop possibility which almost only happens to tube amplifiers but not  SS amp.


----------



## Andykong

itchyyy said:


> Just got this amp 2 days ago, am absolutely loving it. This thing is criminally underrated, it's got the looks, the performance even on stock tubes is very nice, got some genalex gold lions coming as per recommendations from much earlier in this thread, driver tubes only for now (12AU7), but looking into Amperex Bugle Boy EL84's in the future. This is my first real tube amp, wanted to go big with tubes right out the gate, no floundering around with hybrids trying to get something out of them they cannot do, and I already purchased a SW51+, so whenever that gets here I'll have an OTL to compare the HA1A-MK2 with, as well as a few more sennheisers that really benefit from tubes.
> 
> Cayin made a brilliant amp here, and Monoprice didn't even come close to doing it justice in their clone. This thing was worth every penny. Anyone have more up to date recommendations as far as tubes go?



Unfortunately, underrated is a common issue to Cayin headphone amplifiers such as your HA-1AMK2 and our iHA-6.  I wish I can find the way to introduce these nice amplifiers to a larger group of audience.  Maybe increase the price to $999 and spend $200 per unit on campaign and advertisement?  

Just kidding.  

I am interest in your OTL vs HA-1AMK2 example, come back and share your impression with us soon.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

dpump said:


> The Monoprice looks better in person than in the ads. It is a big black box but the front panel is nicely done and has a taper on either side that really improves the looks. Considering the price difference between the Cayin and Monoprice I am very satisfied with the looks and the performance. I almost wonder if Cayin manufactures the Monoprice as they do have some things in common, specifically the adjustable output impedance and the overall look.


Is this the Monoprice amp you're talking about?

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=29511


----------



## dpump

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=29511 

Yes, that's the Monoprice I was referring to. I replaced the stock input tubes with two 6N3P-DR and the output tube with a Toshiba 6080. Swapping out the input tubes is the best change to make and then use a 6AS7 or 6080. Really a very nice amp at a bargain price. Mine is totally quiet and like the HA-1A-MK2, (which I also have), works well with any impedance phones because of the switchable output impedance.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

dpump said:


> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=29511
> 
> Yes, that's the Monoprice I was referring to. I replaced the stock input tubes with two 6N3P-DR and the output tube with a Toshiba 6080. Swapping out the input tubes is the best change to make and then use a 6AS7 or 6080. Really a very nice amp at a bargain price. Mine is totally quiet and like the HA-1A-MK2, (which I also have), works well with any impedance phones because of the switchable output impedance.


Interesting, thanks for the input. How does the sound differ when comparing the two amps?


----------



## dpump

Relaxasaurus said:


> Interesting, thanks for the input. How does the sound differ when comparing the two amps?


The Cayin is a little cleaner and clearer but I also have a better DAC and transport on the Cayin, so probably not much difference in the end. I did replace the 3 coupling caps in the Monoprice amp which helped clean up the sound which I think brings the 2 amps much closer together. The Cayin is more versatile with the 2 different headphone jacks on the front panel-the left jack is called 'dynamic' and the right is called 'soft'- and their sound reflects their labeling. The Cayin also has 2 sets of RCA inputs on the rear panel which are selectable on the front panel so I can have 2 sources connected and switch between them. I would say the parts quality is better on the Cayin, which is reflected in the higher price. I haven't used the DAC on the Monoprice amp so I can't comment on it. If I had to choose between them, I would definitely choose the Cayin, but the Monoprice is a fine amp for its price.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

dpump said:


> The Cayin is a little cleaner and clearer but I also have a better DAC and transport on the Cayin, so probably not much difference in the end. I did replace the 3 coupling caps in the Monoprice amp which helped clean up the sound which I think brings the 2 amps much closer together. The Cayin is more versatile with the 2 different headphone jacks on the front panel-the left jack is called 'dynamic' and the right is called 'soft'- and their sound reflects their labeling. The Cayin also has 2 sets of RCA inputs on the rear panel which are selectable on the front panel so I can have 2 sources connected and switch between them. I would say the parts quality is better on the Cayin, which is reflected in the higher price. I haven't used the DAC on the Monoprice amp so I can't comment on it. If I had to choose between them, I would definitely choose the Cayin, but the Monoprice is a fine amp for its price.


Thanks very much for the comparo. There's an open box Monoprice clone for $199 on the site now but if my headphone history has taught me anything, buying something because it's the cheapest option doesn't necessarily lead to musical happiness (probably a better net worth though! ) I'll hold out for the Cayin


----------



## Shane D

dpump said:


> I agree that the HA-1A is a very good amp, especially with planars. It is however somewhat noisy on low impedance phones like Grado and Denon. No noise on planars and higher impedance phones.
> 
> I disagree with the statement that the Monoprice tube amp doesn't come close to the HA-1A. I received the Monoprice 3 weeks ago and after switching to 6N3P-DR driver tubes and a Toshiba 6080 output tube I have been very happy with it. Totally silent even driving 32-ohm Grados and the 6080 output tube gives a very full and musical sound. The Monoprice amp is a bargain at the current price of $249.99. And if you buy it and don't like it you can return it for full credit.



So, are you saying that it is unusable with Grado's? I am looking for a tube amp that can play nice with low impedance headphones.


----------



## jerick70

Shane D said:


> So, are you saying that it is unusable with Grado's? I am looking for a tube amp that can play nice with low impedance headphones.


You will probably need to go to a hybrid amp to get what you want.  The nature of tubes is noisy with low impedance transducers.  I tried to find the same thing but never found it.  I contacted a custom tube amp producer and he told me it would be near impossible to find something like that.  

The iFi iCan Pro was very quite but there was still some low level noise when in tube mode.  

Now this does play well with low imeedance planars like Audeze and Fostex.  I have some Modhouse Argon MKIIIs that sound amazing with it without low level tube noise.  They are 50 Ohms.  The LCD-1 wasn't totally quite but still sounded good and tube noise was masked when paying music or listening to anything else.  Of course YMMV.....


----------



## Shane D

jerick70 said:


> You will probably need to go to a hybrid amp to get what you want.  The nature of tubes is noisy with low impedance transducers.  I tried to find the same thing but never found it.  I contacted a custom tube amp producer and he told me it would be near impossible to find something like that.
> 
> The iFi iCan Pro was very quite but there was still some low level noise when in tube mode.
> 
> Now this does play well with low imeedance planars like Audeze and Fostex.  I have some Modhouse Argon MKIIIs that sound amazing with it without low level tube noise.  They are 50 Ohms.  The LCD-1 wasn't totally quite but still sounded good and tube noise was masked when paying music or listening to anything else.  Of course YMMV.....



I have actually found a few low impedance tube amps and am in the middle of making a decision:
https://hagerman-audio-labs.myshopify.com/collections/amplifiers
http://hollowstate.netfirms.com/

Neither look as impressive as the Cayin unit, but one of the designers listens to Grado's on his unit, so that's good enough for me. The Tuba is $749.00, with wood sides and the Ear+ HD II (wood sides included) is $800.00. I am just looking around before I commit.


----------



## dpump

Shane D said:


> So, are you saying that it is unusable with Grado's? I am looking for a tube amp that can play nice with low impedance headphones.


First of all, the Cayin has 2 headphone outputs-they are not the same! In the manual the left output is called 'Dynamic' and the right output is called 'Soft'. The Dynamic output does have a small amount of tube noise, but it depends on the tubes you are using. My current tubes are Baldwin/Toshiba 12AU7A and Sylvania 6BQ5 and the tube noise is basically only really audible on 
Grados if no music is playing. There is no tube noise thru the Soft output. On the Dynamic output headphones have their same characteristic sound quality. The Soft output makes the sound smoother and more mellow. Grados sound like Grados on the Dynamic output; Grados are more mellow on the Soft output and not as bright sounding. Gives you 2 different sound signatures to try and I think that's a good thing.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

Shane D said:


> I have actually found a few low impedance tube amps and am in the middle of making a decision:
> https://hagerman-audio-labs.myshopify.com/collections/amplifiers
> http://hollowstate.netfirms.com/
> 
> Neither look as impressive as the Cayin unit, but one of the designers listens to Grado's on his unit, so that's good enough for me. The Tuba is $749.00, with wood sides and the Ear+ HD II (wood sides included) is $800.00. I am just looking around before I commit.


Is it just me or are there no specs on that Tuba amp link?

Someone is selling a MAD Ear Purist on the F/S forum if you want to check that out.


----------



## Shane D

dpump said:


> First of all, the Cayin has 2 headphone outputs-they are not the same! In the manual the left output is called 'Dynamic' and the right output is called 'Soft'. The Dynamic output does have a small amount of tube noise, but it depends on the tubes you are using. My current tubes are Baldwin/Toshiba 12AU7A and Sylvania 6BQ5 and the tube noise is basically only really audible on
> Grados if no music is playing. There is no tube noise thru the Soft output. On the Dynamic output headphones have their same characteristic sound quality. The Soft output makes the sound smoother and more mellow. Grados sound like Grados on the Dynamic output; Grados are more mellow on the Soft output and not as bright sounding. Gives you 2 different sound signatures to try and I think that's a good thing.



So, a change of tubes could eliminate the low impedance noise? I would think that a tube amp would reduce brightness at least a little?


----------



## jerick70

Shane D said:


> I have actually found a few low impedance tube amps and am in the middle of making a decision:
> https://hagerman-audio-labs.myshopify.com/collections/amplifiers
> http://hollowstate.netfirms.com/
> 
> Neither look as impressive as the Cayin unit, but one of the designers listens to Grado's on his unit, so that's good enough for me. The Tuba is $749.00, with wood sides and the Ear+ HD II (wood sides included) is $800.00. I am just looking around before I commit.


FYI pairing well and noise floor are different animals. Maybe I misunderstood your post that I responded to.  I was thinking noise floor. With the tube compliment used in the mapletree you are going to get some low level tube noise.  I know JoeDoe here on head-fi used to own the Mapletree amp with grados.  You may want to ask him for advice.  Here is a thread about the Mapletree I thought you should read...

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...dio-ear-hd-ii-amp-anyone-heard-of-them.11262/

Anyway I think the Cayin will knock your socks off with the right tubes.  It may be a little noisy though.

You should also look at the Elekit TU-8200R.  The Elekit is even better than the Cayin IMO.  It competes with the likes of the Woo WA5.  I own the 8200 and adore it.  I've also owned the WA5.


----------



## dpump

I used to own a Mapletree Ear+ with upgrades I did myself and I have read about the Hagerman Tuba. The Mapletree is good with low impedance and efficient phones like Grado but doesn't have enough power to be a 'universal' headphone amp for less efficient phones. I believe the Hagerman is in the same category as the Mapletree. You are paying more for either of these amps because they come from small basically one man operations. The Cayin has enough power and versatility to drive almost any headphone and the adjustable impedance selector to match to any headphone, so you are almost future proof for any phones you purchase in the future. HiFiMan, Monoprice, Fostex, Brainwavz, and Quad planars all sound great from the Cayin. You will not get this usability from the Mapletree or Hagerman so be sure you will be okay with their limits if you go in that direction.


----------



## Shane D

Relaxasaurus said:


> Is it just me or are there no specs on that Tuba amp link?
> 
> Someone is selling a MAD Ear Purist on the F/S forum if you want to check that out.



Try this: https://hagerman-audio-labs.myshopi...products/tuba-vacuum-tube-headphone-amplifier

The MAD amp is VERY modified. I am sure they are worth it to the right person, but I can get a brand new one, with warranty, much cheaper.


----------



## Shane D (Feb 26, 2020)

jerick70 said:


> FYI pairing well and noise floor are different animals. Maybe I misunderstood your post that I responded to.  I was thinking noise floor. With the tube compliment used in the mapletree you are going to get some low level tube noise.  I know JoeDoe here on head-fi used to own the Mapletree amp with grados.  You may want to ask him for advice.  Here is a thread about the Mapletree I thought you should read...
> 
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...dio-ear-hd-ii-amp-anyone-heard-of-them.11262/
> 
> ...



I have already seen that thread on ASR. After about the first post, there is no mention of Mapletree. There are two guys making headphone amps at Mapletree. I spoke to both of them and both agree that the one I wanted was the Ear+ HDII, even though the other guy makes three other models. The guy who makes the Ear+ actually uses his Grado's with his. The partner says that his should work, but the others are "proven" with Grado low impedance.
The Tuba looks good, has more power and a few more toys. And a TEN year warranty!

I will try to look up JoeDoe.

I am not really a DIY guy with electronics.


----------



## Shane D

dpump said:


> I used to own a Mapletree Ear+ with upgrades I did myself and I have read about the Hagerman Tuba. The Mapletree is good with low impedance and efficient phones like Grado but doesn't have enough power to be a 'universal' headphone amp for less efficient phones. I believe the Hagerman is in the same category as the Mapletree. You are paying more for either of these amps because they come from small basically one man operations. The Cayin has enough power and versatility to drive almost any headphone and the adjustable impedance selector to match to any headphone, so you are almost future proof for any phones you purchase in the future. HiFiMan, Monoprice, Fostex, Brainwavz, and Quad planars all sound great from the Cayin. You will not get this usability from the Mapletree or Hagerman so be sure you will be okay with their limits if you go in that direction.



I understand and appreciate your advice, but here is my collection and I have no interest in getting 600 Ohm headphones and am not even sure if I will keep the HD600's.

If I was sure I could simply buy some tubes for the Cayin and be happy, I would. I LOVE the look and appreciate the flexibility.

My collection is:
Grado GH2's are 32 Ohm at 99.8 Db's
Focal Elex's 80 Ohms at 104 Db's
Fostex TH-610's 25 Ohms at 98 Db's
Looking to pick up up the Campfire Audio Cascades this year 38 Ohms at 100Db's

The next four may not be staying long term, but in the here and now...
Sennheiser HD600's 300Ohms at ?
Sennheiser HD58X's 150 Ohms at 104 Db's
Meze 99 Classic's 32 Ohms at 103 Db's
Beyerdynamic T5p Gen. 2's 32 Ohm's at 102 Db's


----------



## jerick70 (Feb 26, 2020)

Shane D said:


> I have already seen that thread on ASR. After about the first post, there is no mention of Mapletree. There are two guys making headphone amps at Mapletree. I spoke top both of them and both agrre that one I wanted was the Ear+ HDII, even though the other guy makes three other models. The guy who makes the Ear+ actually his Grado's with his. The partner says that his should work, but the others are "proven with Grado low impedance.
> The Tuba looks good, has more power and a few more toys. And a TEN year warranty!
> 
> I will try to look up JoeDoe.
> ...


Talk to JoeDoe about the Mapletree he'll steer you right.

You can get the Elekit built for you at Grant Fidelity.  Just so you know, the Elekit is a Japanese product not a Chinese product and sounds out of this world IMO.

http://chinahifi676.corecommerce.co...Integrated-SET-Tube-Amp-Kit-or-Assembled.html

I think the Cayin will be quieter than the Mapletree.  The Mapletree uses 6SN7 output tubes and the Cayin uses 12AU7. In my experience the 12AU7 is much quieter and doesn't pickup interference as prominently as the 6SN7.  You can always buy the Cayin from Andrew @ Musictek.  He allows 30 days to demo and return the unit if it doesn't agree with your Grados.

https://shop.musicteck.com/collecti...one-amplifier-like-new?variant=31568441802814


----------



## Shane D

jerick70 said:


> Talk to JoeDoe about the Mapletree he'll steer you right.
> 
> You can get the Elekit built for you at Grant Fidelity.  Just so you know, the Elekit is a Japanese product not a Chinese product and sounds out of this world IMO.
> 
> ...



First off, thanks for the advice!

I will try to find Joe Doe.

I will Definitely check out that link.

I am in conversation with Andrew about that very unit


----------



## Shane D

jerick70 said:


> Talk to JoeDoe about the Mapletree he'll steer you right.
> 
> You can get the Elekit built for you at Grant Fidelity.  Just so you know, the Elekit is a Japanese product not a Chinese product and sounds out of this world IMO.
> 
> ...



I checked out that link and it starts at $850 before copious options are laid out.


----------



## jerick70

Shane D said:


> I checked out that link and it starts at $850 before copious options are laid out.


Yes they are a little more expensive but we'll work the entry cost.


----------



## jerick70

Shane D said:


> First off, thanks for the advice!
> 
> I will try to find Joe Doe.
> 
> ...


You're very welcome.

Be sure to ask Andrew for a discount.  He'll hook you up.


----------



## Shane D

jerick70 said:


> You're very welcome.
> 
> Be sure to ask Andrew for a discount.  He'll hook you up.



When I told him I lived in Canada, he said I should buy a new one to lessen the risk of damage in shipping. They are having a sale right now for $729.00 and I have asked for a shipping quote.

We'll see. That demo price was VERY attractive.
I was ready to hop on the Cayin train! Now I am back in analysis mode.


----------



## jerick70

Shane D said:


> When I told him I lived in Canada, he said I should buy a new one to lessen the risk of damage in shipping. They are having a sale right now for $729.00 and I have asked for a shipping quote.
> 
> We'll see. That demo price was VERY attractive.
> I was ready to hop on the Cayin train! Now I am back in analysis mode.


I didn't know you were in Canada.  There are a ton on Cayin dealers.  You may be better off buying from a dealer in Canada. No customs to deal with.  Here's a list in Canadian Cayin dealers.

https://en.cayin.cn/netword/show?c=129&ctype=2&smallid=187&id=13487


----------



## Shane D

jerick70 said:


> I didn't know you were in Canada.  There are a ton on Cayin dealers.  You may be better off buying from a dealer in Canada. No customs to deal with.  Here's a list in Canadian Cayin dealers.
> 
> https://en.cayin.cn/netword/show?c=129&ctype=2&smallid=187&id=13487



You are a fountain of information!

Andrew offered me free shipping, so I will have to crunch #'s.


----------



## jerick70

Shane D said:


> You are a fountain of information!
> 
> Andrew offered me free shipping, so I will have to crunch #'s.


Well that makes it an easy decision then.  I think he has Cayin mail directly from their offices in China with new units.  That's what he did with me at least.  So it may be a wait if you buy new with all the Corona Virus Todo.


----------



## Shane D

jerick70 said:


> Well that makes it an easy decision then.  I think he has Cayin mail directly from their offices in China with new units.  That's what he did with me at least.  So it may be a wait if you buy new with all the Corona Virus Todo.



I just figured he would ship from his shop. I looked at a few Canadian dealers before and couldn't find anyone stocking this amp. Got one reply so far and they stated they don't stock it.
I'll see what the rest of the day brings and contact Andrew again.

Thank again for your help. Now I really should read this whole thread.


----------



## SnarfSnarf

Shane D said:


> If I was sure I could simply buy some tubes for the Cayin and be happy, I would. I LOVE the look and appreciate the flexibility.



Anecdotal evidence here, but I had no issues with noise with my EMU Teak's that are similar impedance and sensitivity to your Grado's. There will be a noticeable noise floor when you have nothing playing, if you wear your headphones often with no music playing it might bug you. The noise floor improved significantly with better quality tubes, I'm currently running NoS Brimar CV4003(12AU7) and NoS Telefunken EL84's. There's still some faint noise if I crank up the amp and sit there in silence but what comes out when music is playing is worth any noise floor. 

With LCD-2.1 Pre fazor, Atticus, and HD6XX this amp is nearly perfect sounding for what I want.


----------



## Shane D (Feb 27, 2020)

SnarfSnarf said:


> Anecdotal evidence here, but I had no issues with noise with my EMU Teak's that are similar impedance and sensitivity to your Grado's. There will be a noticeable noise floor when you have nothing playing, if you wear your headphones often with no music playing it might bug you. The noise floor improved significantly with better quality tubes, I'm currently running NoS Brimar CV4003(12AU7) and NoS Telefunken EL84's. There's still some faint noise if I crank up the amp and sit there in silence but what comes out when music is playing is worth any noise floor.
> 
> With LCD-2.1 Pre fazor, Atticus, and HD6XX this amp is nearly perfect sounding for what I want.



Thanks for the response! How long have you had yours?
I love all the options, but I wonder how they will hold up over time. I am not looking at 20 years, but it would be nice to get at least 5 years out of one. This thing is Well over $1K landed in Canada and you know I am going to be buying some tubes.


----------



## jerick70

Shane D said:


> Thanks for the response! How long have you had yours?
> I love all the options, but I wonder how they will hold up over time. I am not looking at 20 years, but it would be nice to get at least 5 years out of one. This thing is Well over $1K landed in Canada and you know I am going to be buying some tubes.


The HA-1A MKII is built to last.  Fit and finish is beautiful.  I can see it lasting at least 5 years but more likely much longer.  One thing to do to make sure it last a long time is turn it off when not in use.  Tubes tend to blow when you leave a tube amp on continually and a tube blowing will most likely do damage to the electronics.


----------



## SnarfSnarf

Shane D said:


> Thanks for the response! How long have you had yours?
> I love all the options, but I wonder how they will hold up over time. I am not looking at 20 years, but it would be nice to get at least 5 years out of one. This thing is Well over $1K landed in Canada and you know I am going to be buying some tubes.



I've had mine for about a year, been through about 4 sets of input tubes and 2 sets of drivers. Sockets still feel firm and durable, this amp is built like a tank and is an absolute unit. Build quality is exceptional, the wiring and solder work also looks very well done and of good quality. Like it was said above this amp will easily last you 5 years, much longer if you take proper care of it. With some good quality tubes installed this amp definitely performs as you would expect a ~1000 amp to perform, I can't listen to my 6XX's on anything else anymore, the sound is smooth but still dynamic, lots of resolution and clean power. If you're on the fence and are worried that there isn't a lot about these guys online I would pull the trigger, it's an exceptional amp with the only flaw I can think of is the weight (not portable at all, probably about ~30lbs)


----------



## Shane D

jerick70 said:


> The HA-1A MKII is built to last.  Fit and finish is beautiful.  I can see it lasting at least 5 years but more likely much longer.  One thing to do to make sure it last a long time is turn it off when not in use.  Tubes tend to blow when you leave a tube amp on continually and a tube blowing will most likely do damage to the electronics.



I don't leave anything on continuously. I would be very happy with 5 years.
I heard back from several Canadian dealers. Most don't stock and the one that has it wants crazy money. On clearance!!

I heard back from Andrew and he would be shipping from his shop. 3-5 days
I asked about a possible DOA situation and said read the refund page.

NO refunds on sale items. Exchange only and I pay the shipping back

Hmmmm.


----------



## Shane D

SnarfSnarf said:


> I've had mine for about a year, been through about 4 sets of input tubes and 2 sets of drivers. Sockets still feel firm and durable, this amp is built like a tank and is an absolute unit. Build quality is exceptional, the wiring and solder work also looks very well done and of good quality. Like it was said above this amp will easily last you 5 years, much longer if you take proper care of it. With some good quality tubes installed this amp definitely performs as you would expect a ~1000 amp to perform, I can't listen to my 6XX's on anything else anymore, the sound is smooth but still dynamic, lots of resolution and clean power. If you're on the fence and are worried that there isn't a lot about these guys online I would pull the trigger, it's an exceptional amp with the only flaw I can think of is the weight (not portable at all, probably about ~30lbs)



Sounds like it has really worked out for you. Only two dealers in Canada stocking and high pricing. 

Good price out of the US, but a DOA would be trouble.


----------



## project86

As far as durability, I still see the original HA-1A in use from time to time. That thing was released quite a few years ago, so I'd expect the mk2 to be similarly robust.


----------



## jerick70

Shane D said:


> I don't leave anything on continuously. I would be very happy with 5 years.
> I heard back from several Canadian dealers. Most don't stock and the one that has it wants crazy money. On clearance!!
> 
> I heard back from Andrew and he would be shipping from his shop. 3-5 days
> ...


I've purchased quite a few items from Andrew. He's a top notch guy.  He'll take care of you.  He does have to make a living at this though. I had a bad USB board in the DAC I purchased from him and they replaced it right away.  They gave me the option of a new board or a new unit. I took the board and installed it myself. I'm an electronics geek. I'm sure you won't have any issues with the demo unit, it's already been vetted.  

One thing I just thought of. You should talk to Andy Kong here on head-fi.  He works for Cayin.  He'll be able to tell you if the HA-1A pairs well with Grados. I'm pretty sure it's will but it will give you piece of mind.


----------



## Shane D

jerick70 said:


> I've purchased quite a few items from Andrew. He's a top notch guy.  He'll take care of you.  He does have to make a living at this though. I had a bad USB board in the DAC I purchased from him and they replaced it right away.  They gave me the option of a new board or a new unit. I took the board and installed it myself. I'm an electronics geek. I'm sure you won't have any issues with the demo unit, it's already been vetted.
> 
> One thing I just thought of. You should talk to Andy Kong here on head-fi.  He works for Cayin.  He'll be able to tell you if the HA-1A pairs well with Grados. I'm pretty sure it's will but it will give you piece of mind.



He wants to sell me a new unit as he states it has less risk of damage during shipping. A DOA would really upset me if it couldn't be made right straight away.
As far as down the road goes, crap happens. As long as they work with me, we can figure always something out.

I sent Andy Kong a PM a few days ago.

I am dying to pull the trigger with somebody!

Andrew just got back to me and confirmed that even a DOA would be non refundable and I would have to pay shipping back for an exchange since my sale is _International._
He actually recommended that I try to find a Canadian dealer. I told him I had, but that didn't work out.

So, I will stop reading the thread here and keep looking. I did get a hold of JoeDoe and he does gush about Mapletree.


----------



## jerick70

Shane D said:


> He wants to sell me a new unit as he states it has less risk of damage during shipping. A DOA would really upset me if it couldn't be made right straight away.
> As far as down the road goes, crap happens. As long as they work with me, we can figure always something out.
> 
> I sent Andy Kong a PM a few days ago.
> ...


You'll have to report back and tell us what you end up going with.  Everyone on this thread is pulling for the HA-1A.  IMO you can't go wrong with the Cayin.


----------



## Shane D

jerick70 said:


> You'll have to report back and tell us what you end up going with.  Everyone on this thread is pulling for the HA-1A.  IMO you can't go wrong with the Cayin.



I don't think the HA-1A is in my future. I won't pay the high prices in Canada or risk a DOA from the US.

Right now I am back between the Mapletree Ear+ HDII and the Hagerman Tuba. I am also exploring other options.

Want to make a decision over the weekend.


----------



## jerick70

Shane D said:


> I don't think the HA-1A is in my future. I won't pay the high prices in Canada or risk a DOA from the US.
> 
> Right now I am back between the Mapletree Ear+ HDII and the Hagerman Tuba. I am also exploring other options.
> 
> Want to make a decision over the weekend.


The chances of the HA-1A being DOA is slim to none.  I don't think I've heard of anyone getting a bad one.  I have purchased quite a few of Cyain's kit including the original HA-1A and now the HA-1A MKII.  Both were shipped directly from Cayin in China, so much worse handling than domestic shipping from the US, and I haven't had one issue.  The box and the packing that they come in is solid.


----------



## Shane D

jerick70 said:


> The chances of the HA-1A being DOA is slim to none.  I don't think I've heard of anyone getting a bad one.  I have purchased quite a few of Cyain's kit including the original HA-1A and now the HA-1A MKII.  Both were shipped directly from Cayin in China, so much worse handling than domestic shipping from the US, and I haven't had one issue.  The box and the packing that they come in is solid.



Wow, you really are a Cayin fan!

I feel the way about Grado!

I am sure it is a great amp, but it is just too big, heavy and fragile to ship, IMO. I would need a guarantee of a painless DOA.

I actually have had a DOA amp before. Last year I had a Burson Fun-Classic arrive dead. The seller replaced it and covered shipping back for the DOA.

And the story goes on...


----------



## jerick70

Shane D said:


> Wow, you really are a Cayin fan!
> 
> I feel the way about Grado!
> 
> ...


Guilty as charged!  LOL.  I've been through a lot of gear and the Cayin kit speaks to my audio soul.   

Yeah there is always a possibility that you will get a DOA but the chances are minimal.

Whatever you end up getting I hope you enjoy it!


----------



## dpump

So the USA dealer is telling you to purchase a new amp instead of his used amp because his might get damaged in shipment? Is that because he doesn't have the box for his amp? If he has the original box, how is him shipping his used amp any different than shipping a new one? I must be missing something here.

I would still recommend the Monoprice tube headphone amp as an alternative although I don't know what the price would be to you in Canada. The Monoprice is like the Cayin in that it has enough power for almost any headphone and an impedance switch to match up to whatever headphone you use. A much more 'universal' amp than the Mapletree or Hagerman.


----------



## Shane D

dpump said:


> So the USA dealer is telling you to purchase a new amp instead of his used amp because his might get damaged in shipment? Is that because he doesn't have the box for his amp? If he has the original box, how is him shipping his used amp any different than shipping a new one? I must be missing something here.
> 
> I would still recommend the Monoprice tube headphone amp as an alternative although I don't know what the price would be to you in Canada. The Monoprice is like the Cayin in that it has enough power for almost any headphone and an impedance switch to match up to whatever headphone you use. A much more 'universal' amp than the Mapletree or Hagerman.



Thanks for the feedback. Which Monoprice amp are you referring to?


----------



## dpump (Feb 28, 2020)

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=29511. Monoprice only has 1 desktop tube headphone amp. I have mentioned it in this thread in the last few pages. It was just on sale for $299 and has been on sale before as low as $189.00. I purchased mine at $189; an insanely low price for such for such a nice amp. 

Now back to Cayin as this is the Cayin thread!


----------



## Shane D

dpump said:


> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=29511. Monoprice only has 1 desktop tube headphone amp. I have mentioned it in this thread in the last few pages. It was just on sale for $299 and has been on sale before as low as $189.00. I purchased mine at $189; an insanely low price for such for such a nice amp.
> 
> Now back to Cayin as this is the Cayin thread!



Yes I have looked at this several times over the years. I had forgotten about the selectable impedance. I always stopped looking after I saw that it had a DAC. I currently have an SMSL SU-8 feeding all my amps, so I'm not really look for an amp/DAC.

But thanks for the heads up!


----------



## Sp12er3

Can anyone tell me what's the brand of the 12AU7 used by the HA1A?


----------



## jerick70

Sp12er3 said:


> Can anyone tell me what's the brand of the 12AU7 used by the HA1A?


Are you talking about the stock tubes?  You can use any 12AU7 with the HA-1A.


----------



## Sp12er3 (Mar 20, 2020)

yeah the stock tube, because someone is selling me their old 12AU7 and was wondering whether its a good tube in the first place or not. 
Its to change the stock tube that came with my BravoAudio Ocean, which is starting to die off from use.


----------



## jerick70 (Mar 20, 2020)

Sp12er3 said:


> yeah the stock tube, because someone is selling me their old 12AU7 and was wondering whether its a good tube in the first place or not.
> Its to change the stock tube that came with my BravoAudio Ocean, which is starting to die off from use.


The 12AU7 that came with my HA-1A MKII are Cayin branded. There isn't any other branding I can find on the tube.  I had to change these out because they were not my favorite.

***Update***

I happen to have an old pair of Shu Guang 12AU7s sitting around and these look identical to the Cayin branded tubes. So it's pretty safe to say these are OEMed Shu Guangs.


----------



## Sp12er3

Many Thanks


----------



## Andykong

Shane D said:


> He wants to sell me a new unit as he states it has less risk of damage during shipping. A DOA would really upset me if it couldn't be made right straight away.
> As far as down the road goes, crap happens. As long as they work with me, we can figure always something out.
> 
> I sent Andy Kong a PM a few days ago.
> ...



And I hope my PM reply didn't cause any delay in your decision.

If the HA-1AMk2 didn't works out with for you because of the sales arrangement, that would be most unfortunate.  The HA-1AMk2 is very compact but weighted 9.5kg, it feel very dense, 10kg tube amplifier is consider moderate by Cayin standard, the HA-6A is around 20kg, the  HA-300 is around 30kg.


----------



## Andykong

jerick70 said:


> The chances of the HA-1A being DOA is slim to none.  I don't think I've heard of anyone getting a bad one.  I have purchased quite a few of Cyain's kit including the original HA-1A and now the HA-1A MKII.  Both were shipped directly from Cayin in China, so much worse handling than domestic shipping from the US, and I haven't had one issue.  The box and the packing that they come in is solid.



I have to be honest, we had some problems with the early production batch of HA-1Amk2, the package was not strong enough to protect the amplifier over international shipping, maybe because the porters didn't expect the HA1AmK2 boxes are so heavy when they look pretty compact.  We have reinforced the  bottom frame and add an extra box for international shipping, and the no problem never come back again.


----------



## Andykong

Sp12er3 said:


> yeah the stock tube, because someone is selling me their old 12AU7 and was wondering whether its a good tube in the first place or not.
> Its to change the stock tube that came with my BravoAudio Ocean, which is starting to die off from use.





jerick70 said:


> The 12AU7 that came with my HA-1A MKII are Cayin branded. There isn't any other branding I can find on the tube.  I had to change these out because they were not my favorite.
> 
> ***Update***
> 
> I happen to have an old pair of Shu Guang 12AU7s sitting around and these look identical to the Cayin branded tubes. So it's pretty safe to say these are OEMed Shu Guangs.



Yes, I can confirmed that the stock tubes are Shuguang 12AU7.


----------



## Shane D

Andykong said:


> And I hope my PM reply didn't cause any delay in your decision.
> 
> If the HA-1AMk2 didn't works out with for you because of the sales arrangement, that would be most unfortunate.  The HA-1AMk2 is very compact but weighted 9.5kg, it feel very dense, 10kg tube amplifier is consider moderate by Cayin standard, the HA-6A is around 20kg, the  HA-300 is around 30kg.



No sir. It was more of a dealer thing. The American guy with the great sale got very nervous when I started grilling about DOA's and in the end told me to buy in Canada. When I looked among Canadian dealers, most didn't stock it or were charging a pretty high price. Nobody remotely close to the price of the American units on sale. I ended up going with a smaller "boutique" company and love what I ended up with in the end! Not nearly as pretty as yours but Amazing sound.


----------



## Andykong

Shane D said:


> No sir. It was more of a dealer thing. The American guy with the great sale got very nervous when I started grilling about DOA's and in the end told me to buy in Canada. When I looked among Canadian dealers, most didn't stock it or were charging a pretty high price. Nobody remotely close to the price of the American units on sale. I ended up going with a smaller "boutique" company and love what I ended up with in the end! Not nearly as pretty as yours but Amazing sound.



Glad you find a solution even when you are not buying with Cayin, the most important part is to enjoy your music and looking for better audio playback quality continuously.  

As long as you stay on this course, you are still remain as my potential customers.


----------



## Shane D

Andykong said:


> Glad you find a solution even when you are not buying with Cayin, the most important part is to enjoy your music and looking for better audio playback quality continuously.
> 
> As long as you stay on this course, you are still remain as my potential customers.



No doubt about that! Your amps are beautiful and I may well end up with one at some point.

Shane D


----------



## Njychen

I just purchased this amp brand new.  Listened to it for about 30 minutes and it turned itself off... Tried to turn it on again and it lit up for half a second but wouldn’t stay on.  Now it doesn’t do anything when I press the power button... does anyone have any insight?  Could it be the fuse?  Thanks in advance.


----------



## jerick70

Njychen said:


> I just purchased this amp brand new.  Listened to it for about 30 minutes and it turned itself off... Tried to turn it on again and it lit up for half a second but wouldn’t stay on.  Now it doesn’t do anything when I press the power button... does anyone have any insight?  Could it be the fuse?  Thanks in advance.


Yes check the fuse and change it out even if it look ok. 

You could have defective tubes too, or a bad connection of a tube because it wiggled loose in shipping.  Turn off and unplug your amp, then pull all the tubes and reseat then.  Also while your under the hood check to make sure none of the tubes are burned out.


----------



## Njychen (Apr 19, 2020)

jerick70 said:


> Yes check the fuse and change it out even if it look ok.
> 
> You could have defective tubes too, or a bad connection of a tube because it wiggled loose in shipping.  Turn off and unplug your amp, then pull all the tubes and reseat then.  Also while your under the hood check to make sure none of the tubes are burned out.



Sorry I forgot to mention that before the amp turned itself off, there was some crackling noise in the background which got louder and louder.

I’m a noob.  How do I replace the fuse?  Also how do I check if the tubes are burned out without turning on the amp?  Or is that the next step?  Thanks.

I’ve tried searching online as well as going through the manual.


----------



## jerick70

Did  you smell burning electronics?

To check the fuse... there is a little door under the AC plug on the HA-1A.  Unplug the amp, then open the door and check to see if the fuse is blown.

The way you check the tubes is gently remove them out of their slots.  Look to see if any of the filaments are burnt or there is black on the inside of the glass. The reason we want to turn off the amp to check these is you can cause a electrical fire if one of the tubes are bad.  Also you can damage the amp.  It's not likely you will start a fire but it is better to be safe than sorry.


----------



## Njychen

jerick70 said:


> Did  you smell burning electronics?
> 
> To check the fuse... there is a little door under the AC plug on the HA-1A.  Unplug the amp, then open the door and check to see if the fuse is blown.
> 
> The way you check the tubes is gently remove them out of their slots.  Look to see if any of the filaments are burnt or there is black on the inside of the glass. The reason we want to turn off the amp to check these is you can cause a electrical fire if one of the tubes are bad.  Also you can damage the amp.  It's not likely you will start a fire but it is better to be safe than sorry.



I did not smell burning.

The fuse looked fine but I replaced it anyway and I was able to turn it on.   While it was on, all the tubes lit up.

I left it on for about 10-15 min without using it and it turned itself off again and it won’t turn back on.  So basically the same thing as before.


----------



## jerick70

Njychen said:


> I did not smell burning.
> 
> The fuse looked fine but I replaced it anyway and I was able to turn it on.   While it was on, all the tubes lit up.
> 
> I left it on for about 10-15 min without using it and it turned itself off again and it won’t turn back on.  So basically the same thing as before.


You have some sort of electrical problem inside the amp if you are blowing fuses like that. Could be tubes, a component on the board, ect.... Contact the place where you purchased it from and get a replacement.


----------



## Njychen

jerick70 said:


> You have some sort of electrical problem inside the amp if you are blowing fuses like that. Could be tubes, a component on the board, ect.... Contact the place where you purchased it from and get a replacement.



The strange thing is the fuses don’t look blown.  Anyway I’ll contact the seller per your advice.  Thanks for your help.


----------



## jerick70

Njychen said:


> The strange thing is the fuses don’t look blown.  Anyway I’ll contact the seller per your advice.  Thanks for your help.


The fuses sometimes don't.  But if you replace the fuse and then it works again is a tell tale sign that the fuse is blowing.  Did you buy from Musictek?  That's where I purchased mine from.


----------



## IPMano

Hi all,
I receive my HA-1A mk2 this week via son-video in france, i am belgiam.
I like look and sound of this amp. Now i search for the rolling tube 12AU7 by Mullard NOS and maybe EL84 but 1st 12AU7.

I look too for the HA-6A for the futur (+- 2 month)


----------



## Njychen

jerick70 said:


> The fuses sometimes don't.  But if you replace the fuse and then it works again is a tell tale sign that the fuse is blowing.  Did you buy from Musictek?  That's where I purchased mine from.



I bought it from a Canadian distributor since I'm in Canada.  I'm still waiting to hear back.

At least the HA-1A is pretty to look at meanwhile


----------



## jerick70

Njychen said:


> I bought it from a Canadian distributor since I'm in Canada.  I'm still waiting to hear back.
> 
> At least the HA-1A is pretty to look at meanwhile


You've been waiting all this time?  Contact @Andykong via pm.  He'll get your squared away.


----------



## Njychen

jerick70 said:


> You've been waiting all this time?  Contact @Andykong via pm.  He'll get your squared away.



Appreciate the suggestion.   I'll PM him.  I don't want to feel like I'm going over the seller's head because he is fantastic.  He told me he is waiting to hear back from the distributor but it's been a while...

Thanks!


----------



## cfranchi

Would you recommend HA-1A mk2 for Hifiman HE6se ?


----------



## project86

I have not tried that specific combo but I'm guessing you would want a more powerful amp. HE6SE is difficult to drive and demands a very potent amp. I love the HA-1A mk2 but it's not the best fit in this case - a Cayin iHA-6 would make a lot more sense.


----------



## jerick70

cfranchi said:


> Would you recommend HA-1A mk2 for Hifiman HE6se ?


No I wouldn't recommend the HA-1A MKII for optimal preformance of the HE6se.  I don't think it will put out enough power @ 50ohms.  Here's are the output specs for the HA-1A MKII.

1400mW+1400mW (@32Ω), 
850mW+850mW (@64Ω) 
1200mW+1200mW (@150Ω), 
2000mW+2000mW (@300Ω) 
2200mW+2200mW (@600Ω)

There are some tube amps that will put out enough power.  The Woo WA5, and Elekit TU-8200 and TU-8500 stack will to name a few.  I recommend the Elekit stack but you will need to solder and assemble it.


----------



## cfranchi

project86 said:


> I have not tried that specific combo but I'm guessing you would want a more powerful amp. HE6SE is difficult to drive and demands a very potent amp. I love the HA-1A mk2 but it's not the best fit in this case - a Cayin iHA-6 would make a lot more sense.



Thank you for your answers, I’ll return to the amp I was looking initially : Cayin iHA-6 !


----------



## Andykong

cfranchi said:


> Would you recommend HA-1A mk2 for Hifiman HE6se ?



I concur Project86's suggestion, go for iHA-6 if you were using HE6se.  I use the original HE6 as my reference headphones back in 2015/6, I have both iHA-6 and HA1Amk2 hooked up in my system, the iHA-6 get my vote hands down.


----------



## Njychen

noobchu said:


> Hi Everybody. I just got one cayin HA-1A mkII since about 3 weeks. I think I've read all this thread before buying one^^
> 
> First gorgeous piece of gear <3
> 
> ...



I’m experiencing something similar to this right now.  It usually happens at night, I’d hear a hum from one input,  if I connect the other input to something, the hum gets slight quieter.  If I do the same with pre-out, it gets even quieter.


----------



## Shane D

For the Canadians on the forum I just wanted to mention that there is a person in Nova Scotia selling this amp at a pretty good price. The ad is on CAM (Canuck Audio Mart).

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649622802-cayin-ha-1a-mk2-free-shipping/


----------



## Shane D

Shane D said:


> For the Canadians on the forum I just wanted to mention that there is a person in Nova Scotia selling this amp at a pretty good price. The ad is on CAM (Canuck Audio Mart).
> 
> https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649622802-cayin-ha-1a-mk2-free-shipping/



And it is gone.


----------



## barbz127

How well are you finding your ZMF Atticus pair with this amplifier and what tubes are you running?

Im looking to upgrade to one of these for the purpose of running my Atticus and future zmf purchases.

Thankyou


----------



## billyleungkt

Hi guys,

I just ordered HA-1A MK2. I've read through most of the threads of the post. Seems the 1 pair of tubes to roll is the stock 12AU7 tube. I have HD800s and HEKv2 now. Primary, I would want to listen to HD800s more to experience warm, smoother, fuller increase mids and lows. what would be a nice decent but not costing fortune tubes to try?

A few i have gathered (welcome for other suggestions!) 
1. EH 12AU7 gold pins
2. PSvane 12AU7 Tii
3. Gold lion Genalex ECC82/12AU7 gold pins.

Cheers,
Billy


----------



## IPMano

Pvane 12AU7 Tii , Tii because matched, i ve this tube on my ha-1a mkii, very nice sound.


----------



## billyleungkt

IPMano said:


> Pvane 12AU7 Tii , Tii because matched, i ve this tube on my ha-1a mkii, very nice sound.



Great to hear. how does it change the sound?


----------



## IPMano

The sound is softer, the voice forward, the treble more detailed, more open.
but the original tubes have not been run in.

Sorry , i use translate for english.


----------



## billyleungkt

Hi guys,

Anyone know how to remove the wooden panels in order for me to change tubes? I have removed all 4 back screws already but I cannot slide or lift the panels out. There is no instruction in the booklet too.

Thanks guys.

Cheers,
Billy


----------



## Pictograms

billyleungkt said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Anyone know how to remove the wooden panels in order for me to change tubes? I have removed all 4 back screws already but I cannot slide or lift the panels out. There is no instruction in the booklet too.
> 
> ...


The panes may be very tight the first time you take it off, it slides off the back.
I recommend setting the amp somewhere you can reach all around it for the first tome you remove the case.
Once you get it sliding back you may need to pull the panels slightly away from the body if it gets caught on the supports.


----------



## billyleungkt

Pictograms said:


> The panes may be very tight the first time you take it off, it slides off the back.
> I recommend setting the amp somewhere you can reach all around it for the first tome you remove the case.
> Once you get it sliding back you may need to pull the panels slightly away from the body if it gets caught on the supports.



I tried it on my bed... very scare of scratching the nice wood surface and this thing is damn heavy... It's so hard to slide.. Ok.. Let me try again. Thank you! 

Any other recommendations are welcome too.


----------



## billyleungkt

One more question I would like to ask. 
I used to set my DAC (Topping D70) to -00.0db max to my THX AAA 789 SS amp (My cans are HD800S and HEKv2) However, I find it will distort for HA-1A mk2 that I need to lower around -06.0db to -10.0db depends on the songs and cans. It is normal? was thinking pre-amp volume too high that tube will start to break up (like guitar distortion!).

Cheers,
Billy


----------



## Andykong

billyleungkt said:


> One more question I would like to ask.
> I used to set my DAC (Topping D70) to -00.0db max to my THX AAA 789 SS amp (My cans are HD800S and HEKv2) However, I find it will distort for HA-1A mk2 that I need to lower around -06.0db to -10.0db depends on the songs and cans. It is normal? was thinking pre-amp volume too high that tube will start to break up (like guitar distortion!).
> 
> Cheers,
> Billy



The D70 should have a line out mode, you need to go into the system setup menu before you can change the output from pre-out to line out.

Don't use pre-out mode for HA-1Amk2, you have two voltage gain stage in you signal path.


----------



## Andykong

billyleungkt said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Anyone know how to remove the wooden panels in order for me to change tubes? I have removed all 4 back screws already but I cannot slide or lift the panels out. There is no instruction in the booklet too.
> 
> ...





Pictograms said:


> The panes may be very tight the first time you take it off, it slides off the back.
> I recommend setting the amp somewhere you can reach all around it for the first tome you remove the case.
> Once you get it sliding back you may need to pull the panels slightly away from the body if it gets caught on the supports.



If this is the first time you open up the chassis, the side panel might have sticked to the main frame of the chassis.  You can try to stretch the panel outward on each side, kind of release the panel from the frame, then you should be able to slide the whole upper case out.  Its easier to do that on your dinning table as you need a firm surface.


----------



## billyleungkt

Andykong said:


> If this is the first time you open up the chassis, the side panel might have sticked to the main frame of the chassis.  You can try to stretch the panel outward on each side, kind of release the panel from the frame, then you should be able to slide the whole upper case out.  Its easier to do that on your dinning table as you need a firm surface.


Hi Andy,

So helpful to have you here. I have been reading all the threads here before the purchase. I put up a photo here. Did you mean to stretch the wooden panels like the arrows?


----------



## Pictograms

billyleungkt said:


> Hi Andy,
> 
> So helpful to have you here. I have been reading all the threads here before the purchase. I put up a photo here. Did you mean to stretch the wooden panels like the arrows?


The wood panels are attached to a metal frame so you don’t have to worry about pulling them off.
the frame also slots into the top of the front plate to stop it from sliding up, might be a bit stuck there as well, but all you can do is slide the frame backward.
I remember it being tight when I first got the amp. The


----------



## Andykong

billyleungkt said:


> Hi Andy,
> 
> So helpful to have you here. I have been reading all the threads here before the purchase. I put up a photo here. Did you mean to stretch the wooden panels like the arrows?



yes, but you can pull it outward near the bottom of the panel.


----------



## billyleungkt

Pictograms said:


> The wood panels are attached to a metal frame so you don’t have to worry about pulling them off.
> the frame also slots into the top of the front plate to stop it from sliding up, might be a bit stuck there as well, but all you can do is slide the frame backward.
> I remember it being tight when I first got the amp. The



Thank you Pictograms. That's helpful!


----------



## billyleungkt

Andykong said:


> yes, but you can pull it outward near the bottom of the panel.


Got it! Thanks Andy!


----------



## billyleungkt

Successfully install new tubes. They sound amazing  Can't wait the burning in cycle!


----------



## Andykong

billyleungkt said:


> Successfully install new tubes. They sound amazing  Can't wait the burning in cycle!



That's great, make sure you come back and share your impression with us.


----------



## IPMano

which tube


----------



## billyleungkt

Andykong said:


> That's great, make sure you come back and share your impression with us.


Sure Andy. Thanks for you help!


----------



## billyleungkt

IPMano said:


> which tube


Gold Lions 12AU7. I got the 2nd last pair. So lucky.


----------



## billyleungkt (Jun 27, 2020)

Andykong said:


> That's great, make sure you come back and share your impression with us.



This is my impression after listening for 15-20 hrs. I have 2 cans. HD800S and HEKv2. I was going to sell my HD800s (then I got a good deal for HEKv2) but I always hear good thing HD800S with a tube amp. So another good deal came... again for this Cayin bad boy. I read this thread and some comments from facebook Headphone Experiences. Knowing that 1st thing to roll are the 12au7 stock tubes so I give a try on a paired gold lions 12au7. another thing I did was to change to a better shielding power cord (actually, I swapped from my DAC. I always find that thick shielding cable will soften/less dynamic the sound...).
ok. So,
Topping D70 -> RCA -> Cayin ha-1a mk2
Topping D70 -> XLR -> Drop THX AAA 789

My target reference will be my HD800S (HEKv2 already sound very good from the THX amp). I'm doing A-B test for both setup.
- 1st thing I notice. The sound has more body vs THX is clean and a bit lean. The bass goes deeper and vocal is slightly forward. the mid and treble are sweeter. Treble still have the character of HD800S clarity and detail. Tested songs: Still feel like your man, John Mayer. Sugar - Maroon 5.
- 2nd thing I notice. The sound stage is still very wide add slightly holographic and imaging/instruments separation are still there. I love the vocal more now. Tested songs: Signe, Unplugged by Eric Clapton. Funk #49, James Gang rides Again. love the guitar plucking and string sliding sound. China grove - The best of the boobies.
- I'm a Jazz lover. This amp makes my HD800S become alive again. Airy live performance, sweet vocals. HD800S and HEKv2 really need more power to drive better. This amp is even more powerful than my THX AAA 789 on SE... completely changed my mindset Balanced always better than SE.

Last thing to wrap up I just love the aesthetic of this amp and the tower design really save space on my desk. Even I have bright room light I can still see the tubes are growing beautifully from the porthole window. Bravo!!

So is it worth to change the power tube to Golden Lions EL84? what I read it's not the significant. How's that sound like?

Also, I would like to know the impedance selector is it like gain switch? e.g my HD800S is 300ohm. Can I set to lower impedance if I like? any harm to my headphone?

Thanks all the folks here helping me to my 1st tube amp journey. I'm a happy man 

Cheers,
Billy


----------



## IPMano

I do not think that the choice of the headphone impedance selector on the smallest position hurts the headphones or the amp, I have a T90 of 250ohms and my selector is on the lowest position to not not have that background noise.


----------



## IPMano

I will try to find 12AU7 gold lion, I have Pvsame 12AU7 which gives good, but I want to try the gold lion


----------



## Andykong (Jun 27, 2020)

billyleungkt said:


> This is my impression after listening for 15-20 hrs. I have 2 cans. HD800S and HEKv2. I was going to sell my HD800s (then I got a good deal for HEKv2) but I always hear good thing HD800S with a tube amp. So another good deal came... again for this Cayin bad boy. I read this thread and some comments from facebook Headphone Experiences. Knowing that 1st thing to roll are the 12au7 stock tubes so I give a try on a paired gold lions 12au7. another thing I did was to change to a better shielding power cord (actually, I swapped from my DAC. I always find that thick shielding cable will soften/less dynamic the sound...).
> ok. So,
> Topping D70 -> RCA -> Cayin ha-1a mk2
> Topping D70 -> XLR -> Drop THX AAA 789
> ...



Thank  you very much for your impression, this is really helpful to headfier who are interested in tube headphone amplifier but are hesitated because of various reasons.  There are a lot of misunderstanding on tube headphone amplifier:  tubes are slow, excessive warm and muddy,  tube is trouble to operate, only single-ended, how good can it be? Your impression will help a lot of new comers to free themselves from these anxiety.

I have changed my 12AU7 and EL84 tubes in HA-1Amk2 to Golden Lion, in my experience, both tube rolling improve the performance but changing the 12AU7 (which you had already) offers more improvement then changing the EL84.

The impedance selector is NOT a gain setting,  The output transformer of HA-1A are wired with different output terminal, each of which will match the impedance loading of your headphones.  it will also change the output power of the amplifier, that'w why you can hear the sound level is changed when you switch to a different impedance setting.   We suggest you start with the impedances setting that match with your headphone, but you are free to try out different impedance setting, it won't hurt the amplifier but the matched impedance setting should offer the best bass definition and layering.


----------



## IPMano

@Andykong 
There is a snore like 50hz, the lower the impedance selector the less you hear the snoring, this snoring is due to what? there are also sometimes strange sounds (noises) like hissing, if I tap on the amp this noise disappears or reappears, what can it come from? I do not have this phenomenon on the little dot nor on the feliks euforia.


----------



## Andykong

IPMano said:


> @Andykong
> There is a snore like 50hz, the lower the impedance selector the less you hear the snoring, this snoring is due to what? there are also sometimes strange sounds (noises) like hissing, if I tap on the amp this noise disappears or reappears, what can it come from? I do not have this phenomenon on the little dot nor on the feliks euforia.



But I don't hear this in my HA-1A setup at high impedance setting.  I have HD800 and use 300ohm setting quite often.


----------



## Pictograms

IPMano said:


> @Andykong
> There is a snore like 50hz, the lower the impedance selector the less you hear the snoring, this snoring is due to what? there are also sometimes strange sounds (noises) like hissing, if I tap on the amp this noise disappears or reappears, what can it come from? I do not have this phenomenon on the little dot nor on the feliks euforia.


If it goes away from tapping your amp it makes me wonder if it is a tube, I have found some 12AU7 cause buzzing. Is just one channel?


----------



## IPMano (Jun 27, 2020)

no, on the two channel, with the 12au7 original it's the same, when I turn it on the noise is loud after 15-20 sec it decreases
I know someone who bought the HA-6A it has the same noise.


----------



## Pictograms

IPMano said:


> no, on the two channel, with the 12au7 original it's the same, when I turn it on the noise is loud after 15-20 sec it decreases
> I know someone who bought the HA-6A it has the same noise.


Okay, so not the tube. Your in Europe right? So then 50hz could be mains noise.


----------



## Pictograms

IPMano said:


> no, on the two channel, with the 12au7 original it's the same, when I turn it on the noise is loud after 15-20 sec it decreases
> I know someone who bought the HA-6A it has the same noise.


Although it’s for guitar amps this short article might help you see if it’s the issue https://guitargearfinder.com/guides/faq-getting-rid-of-guitar-hum-buzz-and-noise-issues/


----------



## IPMano

yes i m in europe, and i think it's a 50hz, the power tubes are heated alternately?

Thank you for the link


----------



## Andykong

Pictograms said:


> Although it’s for guitar amps this short article might help you see if it’s the issue https://guitargearfinder.com/guides/faq-getting-rid-of-guitar-hum-buzz-and-noise-issues/



Thanks a lot, the link is very helpful.  It is difficult to carry the HA-1Amk2 and walk around the house to detect source of hum, but the idea is well explained, I am sure this will help a lot of HA-1Amk2 users as well as tube headphone amplifier users in general.


----------



## BMGRO

Hi Guys,

Just wanted to say thanks to all of you for this detailed thread and all your impressions and tube rolling experiments with the HA-1A. After having read through it, I decided to get myself one of these beauties as well to pair with my RME DAC2.

Before springing for the Gold Lion tubes, I also have the options of picking Tesla tubes as alternatives for relatively same price ranges. What would you say are your overall favorites so far? Should I burn in my stock tubes first and listen on them or directly replace the 12AU7s/ECC82s with better tubes?

One other thing I am wondering about is if anyone has used this with IEMs on the lowest impedance switch? I do realize this is not designed to be paired with IEMs but with full size cans, I'm still curious if someone has tried it? Reason for me asking is because there are some IEMs that are not as sensitive and could potentially be used.

Cheers


----------



## Pictograms

BMGRO said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Just wanted to say thanks to all of you for this detailed thread and all your impressions and tube rolling experiments with the HA-1A. After having read through it, I decided to get myself one of these beauties as well to pair with my RME DAC2.
> 
> ...


I’ve used IEM quite a bit on the amp, and I really liked them. Even though the UM Maestro is very sensitive it worked fantastic although you had to be carful with how much you turned the volume... 
I actually liked them more than the Campfire Cascades (which is a full headphone) with the HA 1A MKII.
But I had some other IEMs that picked up to much noise... so give it a shot and see what you think, just watch the Volume


----------



## BMGRO

Pictograms said:


> I’ve used IEM quite a bit on the amp, and I really liked them. Even though the UM Maestro is very sensitive it worked fantastic although you had to be carful with how much you turned the volume...
> I actually liked them more than the Campfire Cascades (which is a full headphone) with the HA 1A MKII.
> But I had some other IEMs that picked up to much noise... so give it a shot and see what you think, just watch the Volume



I currently own a Campfire Solaris, Thieaudio Voyager 14 and Tin T4s. Out of the bunch, I must admit that I am scared of trying the Solaris out. Way too sensitive but I believe the Voyager and the T4s will be able to withstand it. But, as you said, be veeeery careful with the volume knob...

I'm also curious how Beyers sound on it. I was thinking of getting a second gen T1 600ohm...


----------



## Pictograms (Jul 8, 2020)

BMGRO said:


> I currently own a Campfire Solaris, Thieaudio Voyager 14 and Tin T4s. Out of the bunch, I must admit that I am scared of trying the Solaris out. Way too sensitive but I believe the Voyager and the T4s will be able to withstand it. But, as you said, be veeeery careful with the volume knob...
> 
> I'm also curious how Beyers sound on it. I was thinking of getting a second gen T1 600ohm...


I recommended  using a source for the amp that has a volume control, set it very low and then when you have your IEM plugged into the HA1 you are able to decide if there is to much background noise, you will then be able to increase the volume to on the amp and the Dac until it is listenable.
If you don’t have a source you can decrease the volume with you may not be able to get past the tiny zone of channel imbalance the HA1 has.

I really like T90s on this amp but never have tried the T1s

Edit* the IFI IEMatch is also really worth looking into if you want to use the amp for sensitive stuff, even though it’s a headphone prefer the Cascades with The IEMatch, just that much more room to play with the volume.


----------



## BMGRO

Pictograms said:


> I recommended  using a source for the amp that has a volume control, set it very low and then when you have your IEM plugged into the HA1 you are able to decide if there is to much background noise, you will then be able to increase the volume to on the amp and the Dac until it is listenable.
> If you don’t have a source you can decrease the volume with you may not be able to get past the tiny zone of channel imbalance the HA1 has.
> 
> I really like T90s on this amp but never have tried the T1s
> ...



I just got the ADI2 FS a few days ago and am playing around with it and hoping that the low noise floor from it will suffice for the amp and also serve as preamp volume control for the Cayin. I have to say that I have completely overlooked the IEmatch and will definitely give it some consideration. I would probably start with my over ears when the MK2 arrives so that I can get my bearings with the volume control and impedance settings. Currently have T50RP MK2 Argons, Sendy Aiva, K7XX and HE-4XX so I think I'd like to see how those handle. After that I'll probably try the IEMs too. Good thing the IEmatch is not that expensive so I might just go ahead and get one anyway. But, I guess all that will happen by the end of next week, at the earliest, because of shipping problems due to COVID... I ended up purchasing it from Denmark since they had the lowest price for brand new 2020 batch with free shipping for EU countries. They were supposed to get the batch today... UPS told them it would get there on Friday. Fingers crossed...


----------



## IPMano

Hi all,

I received my EL84 Psvane tubes, the difference is immediate, the bass is much more powerful and especially more parasitic noise, crackles, whistles than I had with one of the original tubes, the new ones are less sensitive to shock, the originals as soon as we touched the amp we heard noise in the headphones, now it's really nickel, a pity that Cayin does not make a little effort on the EL84 it would be a plus for the amp.


----------



## BMGRO

IPMano said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I received my EL84 Psvane tubes, the difference is immediate, the bass is much more powerful and especially more parasitic noise, crackles, whistles than I had with one of the original tubes, the new ones are less sensitive to shock, the originals as soon as we touched the amp we heard noise in the headphones, now it's really nickel, a pity that Cayin does not make a little effort on the EL84 it would be a plus for the amp.



Could you please advise which EL84 tubes you rolled on it? Also, I'm assuming you also replaced the signal 12AU7/ECC82 tubes? Which ones did you end up with? The Golden Lions or something else?


----------



## IPMano

yes I also changed the 12AU7 when I received the amp, these are Pvsane 12AU7 and the EL84 Mark II Pvsane


----------



## billyleungkt

IPMano said:


> yes I also changed the 12AU7 when I received the amp, these are Pvsane 12AU7 and the EL84 Mark II Pvsane


Cool. Glad to hear you have good experience with both 12AU7 and EL84 changed. I've changed 12AU7 to gold lion and wondering I should change EL84 to gold lion (like Andy Kong setup). EL84 tubes are cheaper than 12AU7 I wonder why haa? EL84 being bigger in size.


----------



## IPMano

electro harmonix EL84 tubes are not very expensive the change by Gold Lion or Pvsane is very good, you will not regret it


----------



## iFi audio

Pictograms said:


> Edit* the IFI IEMatch is also really worth looking into if you want to use the amp for sensitive stuff, even though it’s a headphone prefer the Cascades with The IEMatch, just that much more room to play with the volume.



Thanks. Increased headroom and lower background noise are what iEMatch was deigned for.


----------



## Andykong

Tube rolling is part of the culture of tube amplifier.  It is a norm that tube amplifier manufacturer will select a low-cost highly reliable tube as stock tube, and encourage users to enhance the audio performance and personalise the sound signature of the amplifier to meet their preference through tube rolling.    

There are a few things that matters a lot to us when we select a stock tube.  Cost is definitely a consideration, we have to keep the price competitive against other tube amplifier in China, not just the international market.  For overall branding purpose, we prefer to work with tube manufacturers who can printed our logo on the tubes at their production line directly.  With around 20 tube amplifiers in active production, amd around 100 models on our support list, we also need to control our supply chain, we can't afford to go for different tube supplier on each model.  We also need to make sure steady long term supply and avoid changing of stock tube in the middle of production period.  For instance, we have changed the 300B stock tube two years ago, we  had issued world-wide notice to all dealers and posted a notification in this forum, but we still received inquiry frequently asking why their new amplifier has a different tube with compare to this or that reviews or show reports.


----------



## Andykong

Pictograms said:


> I recommended  using a source for the amp that has a volume control, set it very low and then when you have your IEM plugged into the HA1 you are able to decide if there is to much background noise, you will then be able to increase the volume to on the amp and the Dac until it is listenable.
> If you don’t have a source you can decrease the volume with you may not be able to get past the tiny zone of channel imbalance the HA1 has.
> 
> I really like T90s on this amp but never have tried the T1s
> ...



While I have to state repeatedly that HA-1AMK2 is too powerful for IEM application, the IEMatch is definitely a recommended adapter for these scenarios. Most impedance adapter will offer similar function but change the sound signature of the IEM significantly, the IEMatch is the best we have tested so far on this regard.


----------



## IPMano

I understand cayin's policy and that's normal, I think that one of the tubes has a problem because it produced strange sounds (cracking, whistling, ...) and as soon as we touched it we heard noise.


----------



## Facta

On Drop:

https://drop.com/buy/cayin-ha-1a-he...ontent=1595417759304.310431632557528062094067


----------



## iFi audio

Andykong said:


> the IEMatch is definitely a recommended adapter for these scenarios. Most impedance adapter will offer similar function but change the sound signature of the IEM significantly, the IEMatch is the best we have tested so far on this regard.



Thanks a ton


----------



## Zookie

Facta said:


> On Drop:
> 
> https://drop.com/buy/cayin-ha-1a-headphone-amp?utm_placement=0&referer=WWSNZ8&mode=guest_open&utm_campaign=Automated Daily Promotional 2020-07-22&utm_source=SparkPost&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Daily Promotional&utm_content=1595417759304.310431632557528062094067


This seems like a decent deal although the amp has been out for almost 15 years. Does anyone know if this is a worthwhile buy for 400$ if its going to be my first foray into tube amps? I was going to purchase a lyr3 or darkvoice.


----------



## Facta

Zookie said:


> This seems like a decent deal although the amp has been out for almost 15 years. Does anyone know if this is a worthwhile buy for 400$ if its going to be my first foray into tube amps? I was going to purchase a lyr3 or darkvoice.



Well said.

What might be the highest price/performance ratio tube amp under $1000?


----------



## FanaticSankey

Greetings fellas, 

I just got a preowned HA1A MK2 for a steal price ($250) . It's on stock tubes. I had planned on upgrading the stock 12AU7 to Gold Lions but sadly they are unavailable in India. My only options are Mullard and Telefunken. Will there be a sonic difference if I upgrade the stock tubes to either the Mullard or Telefunken or would it be better sourcing the Gold Lions from overseas ?

Regards,
Sanket


----------



## Zachik

FanaticSankey said:


> I just got a preowned HA1A MK2 for a steal price ($250)


Wow - amazing deal indeed!! For that price, I would grab one too. Congrats!


----------



## FanaticSankey

Zachik said:


> Wow - amazing deal indeed!! For that price, I would grab one too. Congrats!



Yup! couldn't resist.  Pairing really well with the Focal Clears using the Bimby


----------



## c3po

loving My Cayin, next step tube rolling.

I wanted to build a system for when I can’t listen on my main setup (Moon + Sonus Faber) that gave me access to my music server and streaming apps plus I wanted to go Old School with Valves to warm up any ‘digital sound’. Solution was the Cayin Ha-1A MK2 linked to Ibasso Dx160( full MQA decoding, Twin Master Hifi Dac, DSD to 256).
 I 3D printed a case to support it, 20000 mAh battery and a SSD drive I am loving the combination with my HiFi Man HE400i, just Saving for my Meze Empyrean.


----------



## billyleungkt

c3po said:


> loving My Cayin, next step tube rolling.
> 
> I wanted to build a system for when I can’t listen on my main setup (Moon + Sonus Faber) that gave me access to my music server and streaming apps plus I wanted to go Old School with Valves to warm up any ‘digital sound’. Solution was the Cayin Ha-1A MK2 linked to Ibasso Dx160( full MQA decoding, Twin Master Hifi Dac, DSD to 256).
> I 3D printed a case to support it, 20000 mAh battery and a SSD drive I am loving the combination with my HiFi Man HE400i, just Saving for my Meze Empyrean.



i have the same combo too. Do you connect your external SSD to DX160 with all your songs? I never thought can do this. So it can go over 1TB?


----------



## c3po

billyleungkt said:


> i have the same combo too. Do you connect your external SSD to DX160 with all your songs? I never thought can do this. So it can go over 1TB?


You can do this for all your songs inc Tidal  but Amazon will only download to internal memory. It will also access my music server.
I have an early version of the Ibasso Dx160 so some buffering at start when streaming HiRes from Amazon but ok with Tidal Masters. I moved my DSD files to the SSD.
You got to run your SSD via a powered USB C hub or it will draw power from Ibasso ((Ibasso won’t charge like this, you need to connect power or battery only to Ibasso to charge)


----------



## billyleungkt

c3po said:


> You can do this for all your songs inc Tidal  but Amazon will only download to internal memory. It will also access my music server.
> I have an early version of the Ibasso Dx160 so some buffering at start when streaming HiRes from Amazon but ok with Tidal Masters. I moved my DSD files to the SSD.
> You got to run your SSD via a powered USB C hub or it will draw power from Ibasso ((Ibasso won’t charge like this, you need to connect power or battery only to Ibasso to charge)


Cool. Good tips. Thanks mate!


----------



## c3po

billyleungkt said:


> Cool. Good tips. Thanks mate!


Because the Dx160 is full android you can control it remotely using team viewer


----------



## HereticArchitect

Does it feel cheap physically? Light weight?


----------



## c3po

HereticArchitect said:


> Does it feel cheap physically? Light weight?


The Cayin Ha-1mk2 is substantial chunk of equipment, very heavy and the Real  wood panels are beautiful


----------



## HereticArchitect

c3po said:


> The Cayin Ha-1mk2 is substantial chunk of equipment, very heavy and the Real  wood panels are beautiful


Oh i see, thanks. Im still a bit skeptic about brands that have an official store in aliexpress, hehe


----------



## TheThingGoesSkrrr

how is this amp holding up in 2020?


----------



## c3po

HereticArchitect said:


> Oh i see, thanks. Im still a bit skeptic about brands that have an official store in aliexpress, hehe


I bought mine through a UK HIFI dealer where I was able to listen to it, they even offered Home Trial but it was so good I just bought it. They deal in really High End products like MBL, Acoustic Signature, No LoFI there. Check their Website “AudioEmotion”


----------



## c3po

TheThingGoesSkrrr said:


> how is this amp holding up in 2020?


I bought mine in February this year and as far as I was concerned an Valve Amp is old School and unlikely to suffer from latest fad dac problems. 
Quite a few of the newest Valve amps contain DACs so they have built in obsolescence this one doesn’t.


----------



## SHADRICK

FanaticSankey said:


> Greetings fellas,
> 
> I just got a preowned HA1A MK2 for a steal price ($250) . It's on stock tubes. I had planned on upgrading the stock 12AU7 to Gold Lions but sadly they are unavailable in India. My only options are Mullard and Telefunken. Will there be a sonic difference if I upgrade the stock tubes to either the Mullard or Telefunken or would it be better sourcing the Gold Lions from overseas ?
> 
> ...


Hi Sanket,

Firstly congrats on owning one and I am also curious to know the place where you got this pre-owned from india.


----------



## iFi audio

c3po said:


> Valve Amp is old School and unlikely to suffer from latest fad dac problems.



A good DAC is relevant for many years, but yes, they eventually become obsolete for some tasks and valve amps don't


----------



## Andykong

iFi audio said:


> A good DAC is relevant for many years, but yes, they eventually become obsolete for some tasks and valve amps don't




Thank you, given the strong commitment of iFi on DAC and headphone amplifier products, this is a very good statement to tube headphone amplifier customers.


----------



## iFi audio

Andykong said:


> Thank you, given the strong commitment of iFi on DAC and headphone amplifier products, this is a very good statement to tube headphone amplifier customers.



 @Andykong


----------



## Lubak

Hi guys, I'm new here (first post actually) so apologies in advance. But I have some questions and I hope that's the right place to ask. I read the whole thread but ended up a little more confused than before and also it's my first tube amp so I have no reference point. 

I got the Cayin HA-1A Mk2 about a month ago and so far I'm loving it. I changed the stock 12au7 tubes to the Genalex Gold Lion as suggested earlier in the thread. I do however hear an audible albeit rather faint hiss when the amp is idle. And it increases with increasing the impedance selection, does not change when turning the volume knob. So is this the normal noise associated with tube amps, or is that the 'something's wrong with my unit' kinda noise? Oddly enough it is most prominent with my highest impedance headphones - the Beyerdynamic T1 2nd (600 ohm), while it's virtually undetectable with the Ananda for example, which have impedance of 25 Ohms I think. So, is this normal? If not, is it fixable? I should say I use one wall socket for the amp, another one for the dac (topping e30) and my laptop is on battery mode, no power cable plugged anywhere. Should I change the power tubes as well in order to fix that? 

PS: I also hear the ringing noise decaying when the amp is turned off and a slam on the desk would produce such ringing as well, as described by other users earlier in the thread. I don't know if that's an important detail. 

Anyways, thanks for reading and any help would be much appreciated! 
Cheers


----------



## adorno

Lubak said:


> Hi guys, I'm new here (first post actually) so apologies in advance. But I have some questions and I hope that's the right place to ask. I read the whole thread but ended up a little more confused than before and also it's my first tube amp so I have no reference point.
> 
> I got the Cayin HA-1A Mk2 about a month ago and so far I'm loving it. I changed the stock 12au7 tubes to the Genalex Gold Lion as suggested earlier in the thread. I do however hear an audible albeit rather faint hiss when the amp is idle. And it increases with increasing the impedance selection, does not change when turning the volume knob. So is this the normal noise associated with tube amps, or is that the 'something's wrong with my unit' kinda noise? Oddly enough it is most prominent with my highest impedance headphones - the Beyerdynamic T1 2nd (600 ohm), while it's virtually undetectable with the Ananda for example, which have impedance of 25 Ohms I think. So, is this normal? If not, is it fixable? I should say I use one wall socket for the amp, another one for the dac (topping e30) and my laptop is on battery mode, no power cable plugged anywhere. Should I change the power tubes as well in order to fix that?
> 
> ...


Hi, Lubak, did you get anywhere with this? I believe I have the same problem as you, cannot find what's causing it. There seems to be no damage to the amp itself, no ground loop or electrical interference


----------



## Lubak

adorno said:


> Hi, Lubak, did you get anywhere with this? I believe I have the same problem as you, cannot find what's causing it. There seems to be no damage to the amp itself, no ground loop or electrical interference




Hi,
Well since writing this post i changed the power tubes as well - again with the Genalex Gold Lion (like Andy  Kong's combination) and i think that decreased the noise a little. Now, the tubes are brand new and i don't know if they need any burn-in time (if that's even a thing with tubes) and at this point i'm not even sure it's not my mind and the psycho-acoustic effect playing tricks on me. But yeah, who knows. The thing is i also contacted another user via IM (from one of the headphone groups in FB) and asked them to share their experience with the amp and they said pretty much the same thing - with Hifiman HE1K there's no audible noise, but with their HD800s on 300Ohm selection there is an audible noise floor. Which kinda confirms my experience and i guess did set my mind at ease a little. I was concerned because some users here in the thread speak of pitch black noise floor and THX levels of noiseless-ness which is not my experience, and naturally caused me to doubt whether my unit is faulty. Like you I too don't think it is, despite the crackling sounds i hear at shut-down and the ringing if i hit the desk harder, which is still there, i think the higher noise floor is something normal. In the booklet the unit is listed as having THD of 1% at 1kHz, so distortion _is_ present.

Another thing is that the noise changes with the impedance selector movement, at lower selected values there is virtually no audible noise, so if push came to shove i can always just roll back the knob to the left till it's quiet.
And finally, there were people in the thread who also shared the same experience - who changed a number of tubes, describing their sonic characteristics but confirming that at high impedance there still is some audible noise ( grizzlybeast ). So in the end i think nothing's really wrong with the amp; is it the same loudness and frequency as the other users - i have no way to verify, tubes are different, headphones are different, hell even people's ears are different. I wish i could have someone triple-confirm this to set my mind at ease, cause i did spend quite a chunk on the unit, but that's not possible. So yeah, i don't think there's anything wrong, at least to my understanding. I do of course, as i mentioned earlier, come from a background of no tube experience at all, so i'm just making the best of what i read...

Cheers!


----------



## Andykong

@Lubak the simple reason is, the output at 600Ω is significantly higher then 32Ω, so the noise floor is also higher, take a look at the following table.




According to the specification of HA-1AMK2, the rated power output of the amplifier at different impedance are as follows:
1400mW+1400mW (@32Ω)
850mW+850mW (@64Ω)
1200mW+1200mW (@150Ω)
2000mW+2000mW (@300Ω)
2200mW+2200mW (@600Ω)

We can convert this into rated power level, so at 32Ω, HA-1Amk2 outputs 6.69Vrms to the 6.35mm headphone port, but at 600Ω, the output is increased to 36.33Vrms.  That's why when you change to a higher impedance setting, the background noise will be higher. You probably won't hear the noise at 32, 64 and 150, but it should become audible at 300Ω  and 600Ω.


----------



## muths66 (Oct 21, 2020)

I just received my used ha1a i do have some ringing sound or watever it is when off /on  other then that is working perfectly ok with my iems/hp. Now looking at rca clear top ecc82.


----------



## muths66

Cayin int he house.


----------



## muths66

Enjoying now.


----------



## Andykong

muths66 said:


> I just received my used ha1a i do have some ringing sound or watever it is when off /on  other then that is working perfectly ok with my iems/hp. Now looking at rca clear top ecc82.





muths66 said:


> Cayin int he house.



Glad you like our HA-1AMk2.  The ringing sound is normal if it only last a short while after power on/off or when the amplifier suffers shock and vibration (e.g., knock on the table), this is microphonic effect due to temperature change and minor vibration of tube filament (from shock).   

You used the line out of N3Pro as source to the HA-1AMK2?

The HA-1AMK2 is a fairly powerful tube amplifier, and tube is known for background noise when paired with very sensitive headphones.  I have customers trying to use IEM with HA-1AMK2 but didn't really work out very well.  Wander what IEM have your tried with HA-1Amk2?  Black background? Hiss free?


----------



## muths66 (Oct 24, 2020)

Andykong said:


> Glad you like our HA-1AMk2.  The ringing sound is normal if it only last a short while after power on/off or when the amplifier suffers shock and vibration (e.g., knock on the table), this is microphonic effect due to temperature change and minor vibration of tube filament (from shock).
> 
> You used the line out of N3Pro as source to the HA-1AMK2?
> 
> The HA-1AMK2 is a fairly powerful tube amplifier, and tube is known for background noise when paired with very sensitive headphones.  I have customers trying to use IEM with HA-1AMK2 but didn't really work out very well.  Wander what IEM have your tried with HA-1Amk2?  Black background? Hiss free?


ya i use LO from n3 why?
I have topping e30 previously but i hear nothing wrong with n3. 
My ringing no more heard. i try all my iems  no hiss. Maybe my eat got problem. audeze i4, jq huajiang est and this. hp:verum and goldplanar gl850.


----------



## Andykong

muths66 said:


> ya i use LO from n3 why?
> I have topping e30 previously but i hear nothing wrong with n3.
> My ringing no more heard. i try all my iems  no hiss. Maybe my eat got problem. audeze i4, jq huajiang est and this. hp:verum and goldplanar gl850.



Nothing wrong with that.  You bought the HA-1AMK2 before the N3Pro, so I assume you have a desktop source which should works better then the N3Pro line out, glad you like it for that purpose. which is a bonus.

Your IEM collections are mainly planars and est hybrids? These are all very demanding earphones, not surprised they don't hiss with HA-1AMK2, a nice workaround indeed.


----------



## muths66

Just bought an Motorola 5963 for this amp hope it turn out well. Is state is replacement for ecc82.


----------



## muths66

Anyone know i can use a EL84L to replace el84?


----------



## Bostonears

Hey all you HA-1A MK2 owners: A friendly reminder that this amp has preamp outputs that sound fabulous. In addition to headphone usage, I'm running the Cayin's preamp outputs to a 25 wpc power amp to Harbeth P3ERS speakers in a nearfield setup... and the sound is to-die-for good. I mean, HOLY **** good.

If you have a power amp and speakers (or powered speakers) around, you owe it to yourself to at least try out the Cayin's preamp outputs.


----------



## casimirobukayo

hello, planning of purchasing this tube amp, just wanna know how's the stock tubes sound? are they decent enough or should i replace right away? thanks


----------



## muths66

casimirobukayo said:


> hello, planning of purchasing this tube amp, just wanna know how's the stock tubes sound? are they decent enough or should i replace right away? thanks


i think is very decent enough.


----------



## FanaticSankey

Aural Bliss. This amp transforms the Clear into something else. Swapped the EL84 to Mullard and 12AU7 to Brimar (Gold Lions coming in soon).

Chain: RPI-3B+ (MoOde Audio) -> iFi Micro iLink USB to SPDIF -> Schiit Bifrost Multibit (Coaxial) -> Cayin HA-1A MK-2 -> Forza Audio Noir Hybrid HPC -> Focal Clear


----------



## muths66

FanaticSankey said:


> Aural Bliss. This amp transforms the Clear into something else. Swapped the EL84 to Mullard and 12AU7 to Brimar (Gold Lions coming in soon).
> 
> Chain: RPI-3B+ (MoOde Audio) -> iFi Micro iLink USB to SPDIF -> Schiit Bifrost Multibit (Coaxial) -> Cayin HA-1A MK-2 -> Forza Audio Noir Hybrid HPC -> Focal Clear


ur el84 is reissue model? is it very big difference compare to electro ?


----------



## FanaticSankey

muths66 said:


> ur el84 is reissue model? is it very big difference compare to electro ?


There is a difference in the gain AFAIK. Have to turn up the volume knob till 11 o'clock position to get the same loudness with the stock tubes at 9 o'clock position. Tonally there's no difference in the two. 

Dunno if my tubes are the reissue or not as I got em locally here in India.


----------



## BMGRO

muths66 said:


> i think is very decent enough.



I am thinking about adding a Clear to my collection as well. The more I look, read and listen, the more I think this headphone is the best performance to price deal on the market right now in the high-end headphone tiers. Also, I am curious to know what your thoughts are on the different tube rolls you have tried with the amp and the headphone and what sonic changes you were able to discern 

Also, as a side note to the group and the IEM lovers specifically, I have to commend the iFi Audio iEmatch product. I have always wanted to use my IEMs on the amp but because they were really sensitive, the hiss was really audible. This thing is able to handle that problem and there is no audible hiss with my IEMs. Even my most sensitive pair, the Solaris from CA, have no audible hiss once I switch to ultra sensitive setting. This little piece cost me just 25$ from the second hand market and I dare say it's one of the best purchases I have made so far.


----------



## muths66

BMGRO said:


> I am thinking about adding a Clear to my collection as well. The more I look, read and listen, the more I think this headphone is the best performance to price deal on the market right now in the high-end headphone tiers. Also, I am curious to know what your thoughts are on the different tube rolls you have tried with the amp and the headphone and what sonic changes you were able to discern
> 
> Also, as a side note to the group and the IEM lovers specifically, I have to commend the iFi Audio iEmatch product. I have always wanted to use my IEMs on the amp but because they were really sensitive, the hiss was really audible. This thing is able to handle that problem and there is no audible hiss with my IEMs. Even my most sensitive pair, the Solaris from CA, have no audible hiss once I switch to ultra sensitive setting. This little piece cost me just 25$ from the second hand market and I dare say it's one of the best purchases I have made so far.


i notice very small hiss on my dlc iem. But not issue. rest iem doesn't have it. My new dt880 250ohm very nice sound with current sets of tube


----------



## FanaticSankey

@Andy Kong, is the Gold Lion 12AU7s still the top pick for tube rolling ? Also, has anyone tried the PSVANE 12AU7 with the HA1A ?


----------



## Sunset1982 (Dec 5, 2020)

has some of you guys running the cayin with the hifiman aryas? wondering if this has enough power for a good synergy...

How can I identify the MkII version vs the original? whats the difference between them? ist the cs-1a the same as the ha-1a mkII?


----------



## casimirobukayo

Hello, is this the correct input tubes for cayin ha-1a mk2? Replacement for the 12au7 tubes? Thanks


----------



## c3po

casimirobukayo said:


> Hello, is this the correct input tubes for cayin ha-1a mk2? Replacement for the 12au7 tubes? Thanks


Yes: see below : go for a matched pair to prevent channel imbalance.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/12AU7


----------



## Sunset1982

I bought a used HA-1A MKII (CS-1H here in Germany) and listened today with my RME ADI-2 DAC, with the Cayin on stock tubes. So far it sounds good, but the treble is a bit too harsh/sharp for me, which is a bit fatiguing for my ears. 

Would the tube upgrade to the Gold Lion 12AU7 and the Gold Lion EL84 bring a smoother treble or what tubes would be suggested for a smoother treble?


----------



## muths66

Sunset1982 said:


> I bought a used HA-1A MKII (CS-1H here in Germany) and listened today with my RME ADI-2 DAC, with the Cayin on stock tubes. So far it sounds good, but the treble is a bit too harsh/sharp for me, which is a bit fatiguing for my ears.
> 
> Would the tube upgrade to the Gold Lion 12AU7 and the Gold Lion EL84 bring a smoother treble or what tubes would be suggested for a smoother treble?


i using motorla ecc82 and goldlion el84 now. Very happy.


----------



## casimirobukayo

What is better for 12au7? Gold lion or Psvane? & How do they compare? Thanks!


----------



## beardyweirdy

I have just purchased the HA 1 mk 2 and I am getting lots of noise on all but lowest impedance (using 420 Ohm ADX 5000) 
Is this normal?


----------



## Andykong

FanaticSankey said:


> @Andy Kong, is the Gold Lion 12AU7s still the top pick for tube rolling ? Also, has anyone tried the PSVANE 12AU7 with the HA1A ?



Gold Lion 12AU7 is never the top pick for tube rolling, its a my recommended upgrade tube because it is widely available current product tube and offers noticeable improvement at affordable price.  There are lots of better choice among 12AU7 family, but they tends to be more expensive, and you probably need some time to find out the sound signature and strength of different tubes before you make up your mind.


----------



## Andykong

Bostonears said:


> Hey all you HA-1A MK2 owners: A friendly reminder that this amp has preamp outputs that sound fabulous. In addition to headphone usage, I'm running the Cayin's preamp outputs to a 25 wpc power amp to Harbeth P3ERS speakers in a nearfield setup... and the sound is to-die-for good. I mean, HOLY **** good.
> 
> If you have a power amp and speakers (or powered speakers) around, you owe it to yourself to at least try out the Cayin's preamp outputs.



Few years back, Cayin had a joint promotion project with Adam active monitor, we used HA-1A MK2 as preamp pair with Adam A5x as a complete desktop system,  I had tried that setup briefly and it sounded very good to me.


----------



## Andykong

Sunset1982 said:


> has some of you guys running the cayin with the hifiman aryas? wondering if this has enough power for a good synergy...
> 
> How can I identify the MkII version vs the original? whats the difference between them? ist the cs-1a the same as the ha-1a mkII?



This is the original HA-1A, it had similar form factor with Mk2, but without the wood panel, only 1 set of headphone output but with speaker terminal on the back, so you definitely won't mistake it as the MK2.


----------



## Andykong

beardyweirdy said:


> I have just purchased the HA 1 mk 2 and I am getting lots of noise on all but lowest impedance (using 420 Ohm ADX 5000)
> Is this normal?



I am not surprised if you said high impedance is noisier than low impedance setting, but its the other way round, so it worth checking out again.  Do you have other headphones?  low impedance planars maybe?


----------



## beardyweirdy

Hi andy
No other headphones.
Why is there so much noise and hissing?


----------



## c3po

beardyweirdy said:


> Hi andy
> No other headphones.
> Why is there so much noise and hissing?


Hi,
   Can you give a clearer description of the noises as it will help give advice.

generally if you want whisper quiet, no noise, go solid state as soon as you enter the world of tubes you are now in an enviroment of increased background noise.

Pops, Crackles, whistles are usually down to Valves, cleaning contacts by side to side re-insertion may help, the ALPS pot can be noisy too but a blast of canned air into the ALPS gaps can help.
Valve noise is also a reason why many people upgrade or even just change the valves to newer ones.

people don’t chose valve amps for a Quiet Background but for the less clinical sound they produce


----------



## casimirobukayo

What is better for 12au7? Gold lion or Psvane? & How do they compare? Thanks!


----------



## c3po

casimirobukayo said:


> What is better for 12au7? Gold lion or Psvane? & How do they compare? Thanks!


Your also talking almost double the price when talking about Psvane. Gold Lion from what I understand is a ‘budget’ upgrade from the reviews, I went for Psvane for mine and I’m very pleased compared to stock and a set of EH’s I had tried out.
Upgrade 2021 will be the Psvane El-84


----------



## casimirobukayo

c3po said:


> Your also talking almost double the price when talking about Psvane. Gold Lion from what I understand is a ‘budget’ upgrade from the reviews, I went for Psvane for mine and I’m very pleased compared to stock and a set of EH’s I had tried out.
> Upgrade 2021 will be the Psvane El-84


Thanks! How will you describe the psvanes? Will get that instead of gold lions


----------



## c3po

casimirobukayo said:


> Thanks! How will you describe the psvanes? Will get that instead of gold lions


Running in required, biggest change was in volume, I ended up dropping the voltage out my Ibasso dx160 to give me more headroom on amp. I’m running two headphones, Hifiman he400s for when I’m on my own and MH40 for when mrs is watching tv. Enjoyment increased for both headphones with a more natural wider sound


----------



## casimirobukayo

c3po said:


> Running in required, biggest change was in volume, I ended up dropping the voltage out my Ibasso dx160 to give me more headroom on amp. I’m running two headphones, Hifiman he400s for when I’m on my own and MH40 for when mrs is watching tv. Enjoyment increased for both headphones with a more natural wider sound


Thanks.. got me excited


----------



## Andykong (Dec 11, 2020)

beardyweirdy said:


> Hi andy
> No other headphones.
> Why is there so much noise and hissing?



As other users can point out, the reason can be complicated, it can be a bad contact, or a bad impedance matching, or interference that only show up at different condition.  It is quite difficult to offer advice or diagnosis suggestion based on what you have described. 

You PMed me regarding changing the tubes to Gold Lion, have you done that already?  any different after you swapped the new tubes?

I suggest you start with cleaning up the impedance selection knob with WD-40 or similar  lubrication spray.


----------



## pwspwsa

Hey, is there anybody who uses this amp as preamp? Please share your impressions


----------



## igorkashtaev

Hello to everyone! Sorry for my English, it's not my native language. I have Beyer T1 (1 gen), Fostex TH900MK2, Audio-Technica AD2000x, W1000x. Would be this Cayin a good choice for my headphones? Prefer to listen to metal music (death, technical death, doom, thrash).


----------



## Hellhammer

pwspwsa said:


> Hey, is there anybody who uses this amp as preamp? Please share your impressions



I have and it's amazing. Was feeding it with a Theta DS Pro Basic during lockdown last year and was amazed at how good of a pre-amp this unit is. R2R and tubes can be endgame


----------



## Hellhammer

igorkashtaev said:


> Hello to everyone! Sorry for my English, it's not my native language. I have Beyer T1 (1 gen), Fostex TH900MK2, Audio-Technica AD2000x, W1000x. Would be this Cayin a good choice for my headphones? Prefer to listen to metal music (death, technical death, doom, thrash).



You might hear some noise floor with any headphones that have very low impedance


----------



## pwspwsa

> I have and it's amazing. Was feeding it with a Theta DS Pro Basic during lockdown last year and was amazed at how good of a pre-amp this unit is. R2R and tubes can be endgame


Thanks! Nice setup! I'm trying to compose something similar



Hellhammer said:


> You might hear some noise floor with any headphones that have very low impedance


guys who own this unit mentioned good "silent" and affordable tubes above in this topic.


----------



## Hellhammer (Feb 3, 2021)

pwspwsa said:


> Thanks! Nice setup! I'm trying to compose something similar
> 
> 
> guys who own this unit mentioned good "silent" and affordable tubes above in this topic.



It's not really the tubes fault. I can even use MEST with my unit. It's just some low impedance dynamic driver cans will show noise floor due to their low impedance. I had that happen with E-MU Teak and Elegia


----------



## Hellhammer

Hey guys,
just wanna share my modded HA-1A MK2 with you all

@Andykong hopefully you get to see this. I call mine the MK3


----------



## c3po (Feb 22, 2021)

Hellhammer said:


> Hey guys,
> just wanna share my modded HA-1A MK2 with you all
> 
> @Andykong hopefully you get to see this. I call mine the MK3


What’s the modification doing apart from invalidating your warranty?


----------



## dougms3

Really interested in this amp but I really wish it had a balanced option.

Does Cayin have any plans to release a balanced version of this amp in the near future?

@Andykong


----------



## Hellhammer

c3po said:


> What’s the modification doing apart from invalidating your warranty?


lol it's obvious i didnt care about the warranty and know what i'm doing. carry on


----------



## pwspwsa

Hellhammer said:


> Hey guys,
> just wanna share my modded HA-1A MK2 with you all
> 
> @Andykong hopefully you get to see this. I call mine the MK3


That’s great! But we should know answer


Hellhammer said:


> lol it's obvious i didnt care about the warranty and know what i'm doing. carry o





Hellhammer said:


> lol it's obvious i didnt care about the warranty and know what i'm doing. carry on


but what it purpose of this modification? Did you manage to improve some parameters?


----------



## c3po

pwspwsa said:


> That’s great! But we should know answer
> 
> 
> 
> but what it purpose of this modification? Did you manage to improve some parameters?


Looks like he made the LEDs brighter, I wonder if it’s now an Old School Sound and Light show in a Disco. Who’s bothered about Sound when you can boogie on down in front of some pulsating lights


----------



## Hellhammer (Feb 22, 2021)

pwspwsa said:


> That’s great! But we should know answer
> 
> 
> 
> but what it purpose of this modification? Did you manage to improve some parameters?


happy to reply to someone polite:

so the wima film caps under the power caps are to ensure the lowest ESR possible in the power stage

i also bypassed the two input film caps in the analog stage for sprague which are very favorable in this case since they are known to sound great and fit the space

the potentiometer was replaced from a blue alps to a tkd 2cp-2511 which is known for its linearity at the lowest of levels

and finally i replaced the regular copper wires from the potentiometer for silver litz type 4 just because why not

just little improvements here and there and a couple of component upgrades thats all

hope that answered your question


----------



## Hellhammer

c3po said:


> Looks like he made the LEDs brighter, I wonder if it’s now an Old School Sound and Light show in a Disco. Who’s bothered about Sound when you can boogie on down in front of some pulsating lights


you seem oddly bothered by my achievements. hope life is treating you well


----------



## Hellhammer (Feb 22, 2021)

dougms3 said:


> Really interested in this amp but I really wish it had a balanced option.
> 
> Does Cayin have any plans to release a balanced version of this amp in the near future?
> 
> @Andykong


You really don't need a balanced connection even for the HA-300. A few friends have the HA-300 and reported no change from balanced to SE input. Also, the SE output of the HA-300 is higher

In this case, the Cayin HA-1A MK2 output rating is:

1400mW+1400mW (@32Ω)
850mW+850mW(@64Ω)
1200mW+1200mW (@150Ω)
2000mW+2000mW (@300Ω)
2200mW+2200mW (@600Ω)

^^ plenty of power and it's all single ended

The only downside would be if you own a balanced DAC and the SE portion of your DAC isnt as good as the balanced output


----------



## c3po

Hellhammer said:


> you seem oddly bothered by my achievements. hope life is treating you well


Hi Just injecting some impersonal Humour into the Covid depressed world.

I did ask nicely what the Mod was doing but you said it was ‘obvious’ when to someone whose never stripped down their amp it isn’t.


----------



## c3po

Hellhammer said:


> happy to reply to someone polite:
> 
> so the wima film caps under the power caps are to ensure the lowest ESR possible in the power stage
> 
> ...


Does it reduce the non volume dependant hiss/noise?

I’ve just fitted Ps Vanes El84 this morning,now the tubes are all PS Vanes apart from the voltage regulator tube. 
Sound is even clearer, no annoying crackles, best described as more focussed.
I still have that low level background hiss (apparent on low Impedance headphones) but it doesn’t sound as apparent. 
Other comments say things will improve through burn in


----------



## Hellhammer (Feb 22, 2021)

c3po said:


> Does it reduce the non volume dependant hiss/noise?
> 
> I’ve just fitted Ps Vanes El84 this morning,now the tubes are all PS Vanes apart from the voltage regulator tube.
> Sound is even clearer, no annoying crackles, best described as more focussed.
> ...


See if your tube pin sockets are in good shape as well. I've had to readjust those before and it yielded a quieter result

As far as headphone pairings, anything under 50 ohms will not be ideal. I think only Ananda at 27 ohms are the exception, it's dead quiet 🤫


----------



## c3po

Hellhammer said:


> See if your tube pin sockets are in good shape as well. I've had to readjust those before and it yielded a quieter result
> 
> As far as headphone pairings, anything under 50 ohms will not be ideal. I think only Ananda at 27 ohms is the exception, it's dead quiet 🤫


I cleaned up the pins on the previous EH EL84 and used Caig Deoxit Gold and it helped but the Pins on the PS Vane are better Quality and it’s instantly noticeable


----------



## Hellhammer

c3po said:


> I cleaned up the pins on the previous EH EL84 and used Caig Deoxit Gold and it helped but the Pins on the PS Vane are better Quality and it’s instantly noticeable


I mean the actual female contact pins in the sockets

You can use a small dental tool and try to push them in closer together. I noticed after a few tube swaps they need some readjustment


----------



## c3po

Hellhammer said:


> I mean the actual female contact pins in the sockets
> 
> You can use a small dental tool and try to push them in closer together. I noticed after a few tube swaps they need some readjustment


I’ll keep my eye on them but there is definitely a jump in quality with the PSVane definitely cleaner sound


----------



## Hellhammer (Feb 22, 2021)

c3po said:


> I’ll keep my eye on them but there is definitely a jump in quality with the PSVane definitely cleaner sound


For EL84 I've been stuck with NOS valves and so far my favorite hands down are Amperex (made in Holland)

Other EL84 NOS I've tried: RCA, EI, Baldwin

The EH EL84 the amp came with were decent but not my favorite. They also got noisy after a while


----------



## Andykong

Hellhammer said:


> Hey guys,
> just wanna share my modded HA-1A MK2 with you all
> 
> @Andykong hopefully you get to see this. I call mine the MK3



This is nice, but I guess the readers in this thread will be more interested on the impression or change in sound signature after the mod.  

You are skillful, you know what you are doing, and the audiophile DNA will drive us crazy if we don't try our best to squeeze the final bits of performance from our sound system, I appreciate that because I was in the same camp for decades, but different route.

I hope you don't mind if I repeat our regular disclaimer here, this is part of my responsibility whenever I get involved with product modification issues:
Cayin reserves the right to revoke / cancel warranty and after-sale services for products that has been repaired, dismantled, or altered by unauthorized technical personnel.


----------



## Andykong (Feb 25, 2021)

dougms3 said:


> Really interested in this amp but I really wish it had a balanced option.
> 
> Does Cayin have any plans to release a balanced version of this amp in the near future?
> 
> @Andykong



Sorry, I can't discuss features or dates of future products, I'll try my best to provide detail information as quickly as I could when they are available.


----------



## Andykong

Hellhammer said:


> You really don't need a balanced connection even for the HA-300. A few friends have the HA-300 and reported no change from balanced to SE input. Also, the SE output of the HA-300 is higher
> 
> In this case, the Cayin HA-1A MK2 output rating is:
> 
> ...



In fact, we have to added a pair of input transformer in HA-6A and HA-300 to convert the balanced input to single-end before we feed the input signal to the first amplification stage (6SN7 in HA-300, 12AU7 in HA-6A).

Single-ended and Balanced has their pros and cons, we don't think one is better than the other.  For instance, if you are into instrumental music mostly and you want better channel separation, balanced driven probably works better for you.  If you prefer vocal and want to maintain a more focused music presentation, you can stick with single-ended in tube headphone amplifier.


----------



## Hellhammer (Feb 25, 2021)

Andykong said:


> This is nice, but I guess the readers in this thread will be more interested on the impression or change in sound signature after the mod.
> 
> You are skillful, you know what you are doing, and the audiophile DNA will drive us crazy if we don't try our best to squeeze the final bits of performance from our sound system, I appreciate that because I was in the same camp for decades, but different route.
> 
> ...


I can definitely report the result was a quieter noise floor and perfect channel balance all through the lowest of perceivable volume levels. After the mods, it truly felt like a bump in clarity with a black background. With that said, I also can't recommend the risk to others. I knew exactly what I was getting into the moment I decided to do it. I'm just a fan of this unit and wanted to test my DIY skills 👍

And for those complaining about the bass on MEST, try a HA-1A MK2


----------



## dougms3

This item seems to be out of stock at the usual retailers, audio46.com and headphones.com, is there an eta of when this will ship out to those retailers?


----------



## Andykong (Feb 25, 2021)

Hellhammer said:


> I can definitely report the result was a quieter noise floor and perfect channel balance all through the lowest of perceivable volume levels. After the mods, it truly felt like a bump in clarity with a black background. With that said, I also can't recommend the risk to others. I knew exactly what I was getting into the moment I decided to do it. I'm just a fan of this unit and wanted to test my DIY skills 👍
> 
> And for those complaining about the bass on MEST, try a HA-1A MK2



Thanks for your update and impression.  The channel imbalance at low level is a hardware constraint when we plan to deliver a high power all-tube headphone amplifier at this price point.  Back in the time when we develop this amplifier (around 2014), low impedance headphones are not as dominating as today, we have tested AKG K812 and it works fine but the major attention was on high impedance dynamics can (that's why we have separated impedance setting for 300 ohm and 600 ohm output) and planars.  We can't make it an all-rounder within budget so we make a choice based on the headphone landscape at time of development, and IEM definitely is not in the picture at all. Glad you can work out your own solution.


----------



## Andykong

dougms3 said:


> This item seems to be out of stock at the usual retailers, audio46.com and headphones.com, is there an eta of when this will ship out to those retailers?



This is more or less become an expected situation every year but the delays in logistics is making it worse in 2021.  We just resume production after a 2-weeks Chinese New Year break and we are working very hard to get back on track, hopefully everything will back to normal within March.


----------



## Lohb

Is the wood on the panels bubinga or mahogany etc ?


----------



## c3po

It’s a rich reddish colour with a nice lacquered finish, I think it’s mahogany


----------



## Lohb

Replacing front 2 tubes only with bugle boys a good start with tube rolling ?


----------



## c3po

It’s a start and will make an improvement.
I changed my front two to PSVane matched pair and was pleased but I was over the moon when I changed the EL84 to Matched PSVanes, the dynamics increased probably due to the lowered noise floor and reduced tube noise and microphonics


----------



## Lohb

c3po said:


> It’s a start and will make an improvement.
> I changed my front two to PSVane matched pair and was pleased but I was over the moon when I changed the EL84 to Matched PSVanes, the dynamics increased probably due to the lowered noise floor and reduced tube noise and microphonics


Is there a specific model you recommend with PSVanes...?


----------



## c3po

Just the equivalent replacements for both the 12AU7’s and EL84’s as matched pairs (they don’t make variations on the tubes but concentrate on making an excellent version of each type)


----------



## Lohb (Mar 7, 2021)

The amp is a work of art, looking forward to testing it out.
Like some kind of Art Deco piece...glad to hear its good out to powered speakers...another plus...had looked at PreSonus speakers recently.
Will be testing with Fostex T50 Torac baffle mod | Quad Era | Odin Thridi | Aeon 2C | LCD-2.1 | LCD-XC | Emyprean | HEXse..and see from the thread that they mostly go well...Aeon2C will maybe need ifi matcher dongle...i'm hoping it fills out the body of the instruments  from within as volume is raised is only way I can describe it....too many high powered headphone amps amps have a small volume pot range and as you go up the treble goes right out of proportion...so it creates a 'volume ceiling' on where you can listen IMO....drop the gain down and it loses dynamics/mids forward for that wider pot range...catch 22.


----------



## Lubak

Hi,
I had some weird break-through and I thought I'd share my "discovery" in the thread.

So, some time ago I wrote that I've had a somewhat higher noise floor on my amp, regardless of the volume and that it changed with changing the impedance selector (increasing with the impedance). So I had the amp tested (nothing was found), I tried all kinds of headphone/impedance combinations, I changed both the preamp and the power tubes to Gold Lions and it was still there, quiet but audible. 

Until, in some momentary lapse of good judgement, I figured, well why shouldn't I try to make a hybrid set up of what I got. Now, I have very poor understanding of how tube amps (and amps in general) work, as you can gather, but I thought, you know - a hybrid is a tube set in the pre-amp section and a solid state in the power-amp, right. Tube for flavor, solid state for well, cleanliness and whatnot. OK, so the HA-1A MK2 has pre-amp output, right. So if I connected it to my JDS Labs Atom, it should work? I mean, the Atom is as transparent as they come, so maybe I can still get the "best of both worlds" kinda deal, without the audible hiss of the higher noise floor. Not an ideal solution, but was worth a try, and people here shared that it works magnificently as a pre-amp. So I did - I ran my cables from the pre-amp output to the Atom amp, and voila - the Cayin is dead silent now. I mean, in the _headphone out_, directly. I shut down the Atom, only leaving the cables connected, and the effect remained. Still silent. Now, I have no idea what sort of foul magic was at play here, or still is, but I am damn happy I tried, cause now it's like a whole new amp. And boy am I happy... 

Anyway, Cheers!


----------



## Lohb

I read further back some guy in broken English cooked his amp by inserting 2 sets of tubes in the wrong spot...
Is there any explanation on the function of the set at the front and the set in the middle..and 1 at the back what it does...?


----------



## c3po

As long as your replacing the front set with 12au7 (pre-tubes) 
And the middle set with EL84’s (power tubes).
The back tube 120TS is the Voltage regulator tube not normally changed.

He probably mixed up the 12au7 with the EL84 or didn’t buy the correct equivalent


----------



## Andykong

Lubak said:


> Hi,
> I had some weird break-through and I thought I'd share my "discovery" in the thread.
> 
> So, some time ago I wrote that I've had a somewhat higher noise floor on my amp, regardless of the volume and that it changed with changing the impedance selector (increasing with the impedance). So I had the amp tested (nothing was found), I tried all kinds of headphone/impedance combinations, I changed both the preamp and the power tubes to Gold Lions and it was still there, quiet but audible.
> ...



This can be an RF interference in your area that leak into the amplifier through the RCA connectors at the back panel, when you connect the pre-amp output to an amplifier in RCA cable, you literally has grounded the RCA connectors, and sealed the connectors from RF interference.


----------



## Andykong

Lohb said:


> I read further back some guy in broken English cooked his amp by inserting 2 sets of tubes in the wrong spot...
> Is there any explanation on the function of the set at the front and the set in the middle..and 1 at the back what it does...?





c3po said:


> As long as your replacing the front set with 12au7 (pre-tubes)
> And the middle set with EL84’s (power tubes).
> The back tube 120TS is the Voltage regulator tube not normally changed.
> 
> He probably mixed up the 12au7 with the EL84 or didn’t buy the correct equivalent



That's correct, as long as you don't mixed up the tubes and replaced them correctly, it  shouldn't happen.

If you are new to this hobby and is not confident about vacuum tubes rolling, I suggest you to replace the tube one pair at a time. Don't change the 12Au7 and EL84 at the same time. 

If you want to understand the function of the Rectifier tube (120TS), Driver tube (12AU7) and Power tube (EL84), check out HERE, HERE, and HERE


----------



## muths66

Lohb said:


> Replacing front 2 tubes only with bugle boys a good start with tube rolling ?


That is costly tube.


----------



## Lohb (Mar 9, 2021)

Just received the HA-1, what a small monster it is in weight and sound...using the right-hand 6.3" out with HEKse for that softer upper edge...will be up against a Liquid Platinum and star of the moment Flux Labs FA-10...pure tube | hybrid | ss......only 1 survives....1 amp and 2 sets of cans (1 open/1 closed) is my honed down goal....
Also looking at the A-gd R1 r2r and the Denafrips Ares II over my entry-level A-gd-R11....I like the fact that the higher A-gd R1 can emulate the TDA1541A sound in the settings.

One issue for my cans is lack of volume range on the the Flux Labs FA-10..you get into a medium volume sweetspot where it sounds like a really transparent tube amp but things then go hard and bright after that point if you want to chase the low-end and mids.

Anyone using Verum 1 with HA-1?...I know he got a bad rap for PM comments and got booted from head-fi...but those cans were really good when I tested them...as they say, it's like an LCD-2 with all its iteration issues fixed....tad hot treble again for my ears though.


----------



## Lohb

muths66 said:


> That is costly tube.


cheaper than amp trading up the way.


----------



## muths66

Lohb said:


> Just received the HA-1, what a small monster it is in weight and sound...using the right-hand 6.3" out with HEKse for that softer upper edge...will be up against a Liquid Platinum and star of the moment Flux Labs FA-10...pure tube | hybrid | ss......only 1 survives....1 amp and 2 sets of cans (1 open/1 closed) is my honed down goal....
> Also looking at the A-gd R1 r2r and the Denafrips Ares II over my entry-level A-gd-R11....I like the fact that the higher A-gd R1 can emulate the TDA1541A sound in the settings.
> 
> One issue for my cans is lack of volume range on the the Flux Labs FA-10..you get into a medium volume sweetspot where it sounds like a really transparent tube amp but things then go hard and bright after that point if you want to chase the low-end and mids.
> ...


I using verum with it. np


----------



## Lohb

muths66 said:


> I using verum with it. np


Yes...and how is the synergy ?


----------



## muths66

Lohb said:


> Yes...and how is the synergy ?


very nice.


----------



## Lohb

Never heard LCD-XC sound better...the holographic imaging is supremo on this amp...liquid/3D/nimble...


----------



## iFi audio

Lohb said:


> Aeon2C will maybe need ifi matcher dongle



You mean iEMatch? If you lack headroom and feel that some bits in music are missing because of it, then iEMatch could help.


----------



## Lohb (Mar 10, 2021)

Going to see if that low level noise can be cleaned up with a Merlin Cables Huntsman which basically has a large ferrite core on it before looking towards new tubes etc.
https://www.analogueseduction.net/mains-cables/merlin-cables-huntsman-mains-cable.html
Cannot hear that background noise really at all once music playing. Just a matter of procedure when setting up new audio chains to get things blacker.
Edit : Yip the huntsman cable has dealt with the background noise to quite a degree with stock tubes...can put it to full volume without music and hiss is barely there now... Just exchanged the huntsman cable over from my hybrid amp.

Anyway, it was a short battle with the LP hybrid and SS amp...jumping between the 3 in a circle.
Cayin wins to my ears and what I'm after....really like the 2 different 6.3" out tunings as well for synergy with different cans and music styles/mastering...is that purely a gain thing on those outputs...one with bite, one smoother sounding ?
Probably much the same effect on music as the Bakoon amps I'm guessing..current/voltage output thing that they do on SS output.

The N3Pro DAP is also pretty great on triode tube out with iSine Planar IEMs, only minus I'd say on the DAP is that cold hard blueish small screen and no Android system to add UAPP...if it had full screen Android..wow...expansions on that is for the N3Pro thread though.


----------



## muths66

Tube roll will be nicer.


----------



## Lohb

muths66 said:


> Tube roll will be nicer.


Just want some strong brain burn-in with stock tubes before I get to that rolling stage.


----------



## Lohb (Mar 14, 2021)

Gold Lions, Golden Dragons and PSVane are tubes I've dialed down to for front pre-tubes...anyone tried 2 or more before settling on one of those brands ? I see the UK reseller of HA-1 have Golden Dragons in their drop-down menu for pre-stage only.


Edit: I think I'm going to go for PSvane on amp section and Gold Lions for the pre section, put them aside till I get longer head time with stock tubes....will maybe pick up a couple of more pre tube sets but I liked the description earlier on excellent dynamics and black background on PSvane amp section tubes.


----------



## muths66

i now using goldlion ecc82 and motorola el84.


----------



## c3po

Lohb said:


> Gold Lions, Golden Dragons and PSVane are tubes I've dialed down to for front pre-tubes...anyone tried 2 or more before settling on one of those brands ? I see the UK reseller of HA-1 have Golden Dragons in their drop-down menu for pre-stage only.
> 
> 
> Edit: I think I'm going to go for PSVane on pre and amp, put them aside till I get longer head time with stock tubes.


I got my PSVanes from Hotrox


----------



## emeeve

Hoping someone can tell me what the max input level is for the HA-1A MKII? I recently bought an Audio-GD set up (DI-20, R8 DAC, M19 Amp). I run a Metrone Ambre Roon endpoint coax into the Di20 and i2s into the R8 DAC then ACSS into the M19 amp -- sound is gorgeous. Unfortunately when I plug the R8 into the Cayin, the sound becomes very distorted, particularly as you increase the volume on the Cayin...it's almost like the DAC is overpowering the amp...I can assume then it's because the R8 outputs at 2.5V and the Cayin like most tube amps input at 2V? Not sure...hoping someone can provide some guidance on how to get this under control...love the Cayin amp especially w/ the NOS Telefunken tubes (wow these tubes sound great...highly recommend if you can still find them). I switched between my VO and Empryeans as they have different impedance levels but no difference...it's definitely sounds like it's on High Gain and need to be turned down...but obviously the Cayin doesn't have an actual high/low gain setting...


----------



## emeeve

When I use the RME ADI-2 into the Cayin, there is no issue...so maybe the R8 DAC is just too much for the Cayin to handle...


----------



## c3po

Might need to use in line attenuators like Rothwells on the rca output of the dac


----------



## muths66

emeeve said:


> Hoping someone can tell me what the max input level is for the HA-1A MKII? I recently bought an Audio-GD set up (DI-20, R8 DAC, M19 Amp). I run a Metrone Ambre Roon endpoint coax into the Di20 and i2s into the R8 DAC then ACSS into the M19 amp -- sound is gorgeous. Unfortunately when I plug the R8 into the Cayin, the sound becomes very distorted, particularly as you increase the volume on the Cayin...it's almost like the DAC is overpowering the amp...I can assume then it's because the R8 outputs at 2.5V and the Cayin like most tube amps input at 2V? Not sure...hoping someone can provide some guidance on how to get this under control...love the Cayin amp especially w/ the NOS Telefunken tubes (wow these tubes sound great...highly recommend if you can still find them). I switched between my VO and Empryeans as they have different impedance levels but no difference...it's definitely sounds like it's on High Gain and need to be turned down...but obviously the Cayin doesn't have an actual high/low gain setting...


I use cayin n3pro LO to the amp no distortion at all.


----------



## Hellhammer

emeeve said:


> Hoping someone can tell me what the max input level is for the HA-1A MKII? I recently bought an Audio-GD set up (DI-20, R8 DAC, M19 Amp). I run a Metrone Ambre Roon endpoint coax into the Di20 and i2s into the R8 DAC then ACSS into the M19 amp -- sound is gorgeous. Unfortunately when I plug the R8 into the Cayin, the sound becomes very distorted, particularly as you increase the volume on the Cayin...it's almost like the DAC is overpowering the amp...I can assume then it's because the R8 outputs at 2.5V and the Cayin like most tube amps input at 2V? Not sure...hoping someone can provide some guidance on how to get this under control...love the Cayin amp especially w/ the NOS Telefunken tubes (wow these tubes sound great...highly recommend if you can still find them). I switched between my VO and Empryeans as they have different impedance levels but no difference...it's definitely sounds like it's on High Gain and need to be turned down...but obviously the Cayin doesn't have an actual high/low gain setting...


I've used a Theta DS Pro Basic which outputs 3.4Vrms and didn't get any distortion. Currently using an Airist R2R DAC with 2.5Vrms without any distortion


----------



## emeeve

Issue fixed...fellow Head-fier on another thread recommended this...use pre-out from the Master 19 headamp/pre-amp into the Cayin...Eureka...this is actually even better than plugging into the Cayin directly...Have to say those Telefunken NOs brings so much sparkle! 

Telefunken 12au7
Telefunken EL84
RCA 12DT5


----------



## muths66

Hellhammer said:


> I've used a Theta DS Pro Basic which outputs 3.4Vrms and didn't get any distortion. Currently using an Airist R2R DAC with 2.5Vrms without any distortion


how is sound r2r vs sigma delta sound.
I thought of getting ares2 to pair with ha1a.


----------



## Hellhammer (Mar 15, 2021)

muths66 said:


> how is sound r2r vs sigma delta sound.
> I thought of getting ares2 to pair with ha1a.


R2R vs Delta Sigma: usually you will notice a more pronounced texture in low frequencies, mids with more body, more stage depth or holographic. Detail can be fast--just seamless with a natural and realistic tonality overall. With that said, within the R2R realm your mileage may vary depending on implementation

For example: the Ares II is supposed to have really good staging and air as opposed to NOS DACs like Theta Digital's that are notorious for having thunderous bass and great mids


----------



## Hellhammer

emeeve said:


> Issue fixed...fellow Head-fier on another thread recommended this...use pre-out from the Master 19 headamp/pre-amp into the Cayin...Eureka...this is actually even better than plugging into the Cayin directly...Have to say those Telefunken NOs brings so much sparkle!
> 
> Telefunken 12au7
> Telefunken EL84
> RCA 12DT5


The RCA 12DT5 is a good tube. I normally use with Amperex EL84 to tone the treble down

Im currently running:
Brimar CV4003 (military grade 12AU7)
Ei EL84 (Philips-Mullard)
GE 12DT5


----------



## Andykong

emeeve said:


> Hoping someone can tell me what the max input level is for the HA-1A MKII? I recently bought an Audio-GD set up (DI-20, R8 DAC, M19 Amp). I run a Metrone Ambre Roon endpoint coax into the Di20 and i2s into the R8 DAC then ACSS into the M19 amp -- sound is gorgeous. Unfortunately when I plug the R8 into the Cayin, the sound becomes very distorted, particularly as you increase the volume on the Cayin...it's almost like the DAC is overpowering the amp...I can assume then it's because the R8 outputs at 2.5V and the Cayin like most tube amps input at 2V? Not sure...hoping someone can provide some guidance on how to get this under control...love the Cayin amp especially w/ the NOS Telefunken tubes (wow these tubes sound great...highly recommend if you can still find them). I switched between my VO and Empryeans as they have different impedance levels but no difference...it's definitely sounds like it's on High Gain and need to be turned down...but obviously the Cayin doesn't have an actual high/low gain setting...



2.5V should be fine with HA-1AmkII, I have use DAC output with 3V line out previously, not completely black on sensitive headphones but other then that, it works fine, so I can't imagine this is because of the 2.5V output from your DAC.


----------



## Lohb

Amperex EL84 = pricey tubes$$$$ for a set. $300 !?
Got my Gold Lions on the way anyway...try PSVane on amp section after that adjustment.
Loving this tube amp anyway just on stock tubes .....R2R+tube+planars...oh yes...magic combo...and all 'old tech' in a way.


----------



## emeeve

I have a set of Gold Lions too and they sound amazing as well...I prefer the- dynamic cans like my VO on tubes vs. planars like my Ed. X v2 or Empyrean...The Cayin tube rolls so well...real quality for sure.


----------



## Lohb

Anyone using the iFi iPurifier in their power chain with the amp ?


----------



## muths66

Lohb said:


> Amperex EL84 = pricey tubes$$$$ for a set. $300 !?
> Got my Gold Lions on the way anyway...try PSVane on amp section after that adjustment.
> Loving this tube amp anyway just on stock tubes .....R2R+tube+planars...oh yes...magic combo...and all 'old tech' in a way.


Told you is costly.
GEC tube most ex.


----------



## Lohb

muths66 said:


> Told you is costly.


Can you run your tube amp at ambient temperature or do you need to use A/C with it in Singapore ?


----------



## muths66

Lohb said:


> Can you run your tube amp at ambient temperature or do you need to use A/C with it in Singapore ?


i only use 1-2hrs per day and not everyday. so i dun bother the heat.


----------



## Lohb

muths66 said:


> i only use 1-2hrs per day and not everyday. so i dun bother the heat.


I meant wrt the safe operating temperature of the amplifier in case anthing might blow.


----------



## iFi audio

Lohb said:


> Anyone using the iFi iPurifier in their power chain with the amp ?



You mean AC or DC iPurifier?


----------



## Lohb (Mar 18, 2021)

Liking the change on the preamp tubes to Gold Lion..everthing seems more spacious 3D now/tighter dynamic low-end...guess more improvements come with burn-in.
Have to decide on the Gold Lion or EL84-T-MII/2 Psvane Reference MarkII T-series Amp Tubes now.
Hopefully I can just keep this tube amp long-term now vs constant testing new stuff in the chain...frazzled with synergy issues.


----------



## muths66

Lohb said:


> Liking the change on the preamp tubes to Gold Lion..everthing seems more spacious 3D now/tighter dynamic low-end...guess more improvements come with burn-in.
> Have to decide on the Gold Lion or EL84-T-MII/2 Psvane Reference MarkII T-series Amp Tubes now.
> Hopefully I can just keep this tube amp long-term now vs constant testing new stuff in the chain...frazzled with synergy issues.


what tube amp u going to use with Psvane Reference MarkII T-series??


----------



## Lohb

iFi audio said:


> You mean AC or DC iPurifier?


AC one that goes into multiblocks strips.


muths66 said:


> what tube amp u going to use with Psvane Reference MarkII T-series??


The amp section sockets of this tube amp.


----------



## muths66

Anyone know if my hp is 32ohm i use 151-300ohm will it spoil my hp?
Will amp detect my hp ohm give me lower power?


----------



## Zachik

muths66 said:


> Anyone know if my hp is 32ohm i use 151-300ohm will it spoil my hp?


No. You have nothing to worry about.
Worse case scenario, your bass or treble frequencies won't sound as good as when plugged to the "right" impedance


----------



## Lohb

Got my 2 sets of PSVanes..OOTB everything sounds tighter,wider and more extended at each end vs stock amp tube and Gold Lion. Will be keeping the amp section as PSVane and just A|B the pre-amp psvane vs Gold Lion to see which I prefer...PSVane just seems 'cleaner/veil removed' are initial impressions and I know they burn-in and change first 100 hours etc...can sound a bit nasally at first...new to tube rolling but great option to roll vs having to move on an entire amp because of dislike in one area of the presentation. Warm, sluggish and wooly these tubes are not.


----------



## makan

Wondering if I was to look to roll in the 12au7 tubes, should I look to purchase matching tubes?


----------



## muths66

Just pair up with ares2. Is insane the sound.


----------



## sfo1972

Hi there folks-
I am so glad to find this thread on head-fi! Been away for a while from the forums and was delighted to find all the valuable info on the Mk2 right here.

Not sure if you all experienced the same issue as I did? I couldn't find a lot of information and reviews on the mk2 with Google search.  As an avid tube freak, I want to learn as much as I can about sound signatures and tube rolling with this amp.

I ordered mine a few days back through AliExpress and should have it in a few days.  Would be more than happy to share my impressions after burn-in and some decent listening time.

I am fortunate to have several 12au7 and 12au7a NOS tubes (RCA, Mullards, GE, GE Hammonds, etc) burned in with my Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP Integ tube Amp. I will roll those in after trying the stock tubes for a few days.

I plan on using the Senheisser HD700s and  AKG K701 (62ohms) for the cans.

And for those that are hesitating to buy this amp, trust me when I say that barring no manufacturing issues/defects, this is by far the best value for money I could find.  And as a designer, I can say that I am absolutely in love with the design, finish, and the considerate touch of giving us a window to see the tubes while protecting our fingers from burn 🔥 

Once again, thanks for all the great info guys.


----------



## sfo1972

And for a totally unrelated topic 

Check out my own invention for VU meters mk i


----------



## Lohb

Does anyone know how the two 6.3" outputs give that different SQ presentation ?


----------



## muths66

Lohb said:


> Does anyone know how the two 6.3" outputs give that different SQ presentation ?


both sound abit different


----------



## sfo1972

Ok boys and girls! The Amp has arrived and I will pick it up from FedEx tomorrow.

Any interest for pictures of the unboxing, internals, etc? I am taking your requests.... 😀


----------



## gadgetgod

Hello friends,

I recently got an HD600 for myself. I have a Topping E30+L30 Stack currently(L30 is replaced by Topping so new unit). I heard some people say the HD6x0 series sounds best with Tube Amplifiers. The only decent one available in my country is Cayin HA-1A MK2. Shall I get it or something else around the same budget? Please note I will be using E30 with it too, and I have no other Cans mostly IEMS in my collection.

P.S I don't want to import it from outside as it will attract a lot of customs being too big and heavy.

Thanks


----------



## Andykong

gadgetgod said:


> Hello friends,
> 
> I recently got an HD600 for myself. I have a Topping E30+L30 Stack currently(L30 is replaced by Topping so new unit). I heard some people say the HD6x0 series sounds best with Tube Amplifiers. The only decent one available in my country is Cayin HA-1A MK2. Shall I get it or something else around the same budget? Please note I will be using E30 with it too, and I have no other Cans mostly IEMS in my collection.
> 
> ...



If you are looking for a all-tube headphone amplifier, then you don't have a lot of selection at sub-$1000 price range.  The HA1AMk2 works fine with HD600 and HD650, I have tried that in many occasions.


----------



## Lohb (Apr 20, 2021)

After R2R DAC-rolling, dac setting dialing, tube rolling and 6.3"-out A/B testing on this amp, finally settled on
Psvane EL84-T Mk2 PRE-AMP and Gold Lion AMP tubes....just found the Gold Lions added that dash of 'sweetness/slight warmth' vs ultra-neutral Psvane 12au7 Mk2 (to my ears anyway A/B-ing those 2)

Best dac/amp pinnacle I've heard to date with my planars.


----------



## pwspwsa

I plan to order this amplifier for my Audeze LCD-2C. Is there anybody who use such a set? I read that HA-1A MK2 with stock tubes not going well  with this headphones. I'd be really appreciate with any advice


----------



## Lohb

pwspwsa said:


> I plan to order this amplifier for my Audeze LCD-2C. Is there anybody who use such a set? I read that HA-1A MK2 with stock tubes not going well  with this headphones. I'd be really appreciate with any advice


It depends on the exact year of your LCD-2, they vary in darkess and also your DAC which one is that ?

From tubes I have experienced, it would be PSvane for the pre-fazor LCD (darker/rolled off treble), and Gold Lion (natural/dash of warmth over neutral tonality) for the newer LCD-2s...generally in brush strokes...it also depends on your target 'temperature' of DAC/amp/LCD-2 and how bright/neutral/dark you want things...


----------



## muths66

beardyweirdy said:


> I have just purchased the HA 1 mk 2 and I am getting lots of noise on all but lowest impedance (using 420 Ohm ADX 5000)
> Is this normal?


You can try shift your amp far away from power source. I do encounter some noise if my amp is near power source. I use too have dt880 250ohm no hiss.


----------



## gadgetgod

Andykong said:


> If you are looking for a all-tube headphone amplifier, then you don't have a lot of selection at sub-$1000 price range.  The HA1AMk2 works fine with HD600 and HD650, I have tried that in many occasions.


Thanks man,

I ordered it it will be delivered in about a week. will update.


----------



## muths66

Recently saw 1 pair amperex in ebay so wanted to buy but so expensive.


----------



## pwspwsa

muths66 said:


> Recently saw 1 pair amperex in ebay so wanted to buy but so expensive.


Your experiments with tubes are really interesting, keep us updated please


----------



## muths66

pwspwsa said:


> Your experiments with tubes are really interesting, keep us updated please


$275usd i dunno i will buy a  not too. lol


----------



## gadgetgod

Got my unit <3 currently in burn-in stage


----------



## shinewu

Is this headphone amp discontinued in US? I checked everywhere, seems like no one is shipping it anymore.


----------



## gadgetgod

shinewu said:


> Is this headphone amp discontinued in US? I checked everywhere, seems like no one is shipping it anymore.


Do you have any Cayin resellers there? Importing it will be a trouble with Custom taxes as it weighs like 11 Kilos otherwise Jaben Singapore has it on sale.


----------



## Andykong

shinewu said:


> Is this headphone amp discontinued in US? I checked everywhere, seems like no one is shipping it anymore.


Check with MusicTeck, not sure about their next order schedule but they sell HA-1AMK2 actively in past few years.


----------



## Lohb

shinewu said:


> Is this headphone amp discontinued in US? I checked everywhere, seems like no one is shipping it anymore.


looks to be in stock in this website...
https://elusivedisc.com/cayin-ha-1a-mk2-headphone-amp/


----------



## Lohb

Went back to Psvane on amp section vs Gold Lion I had in for a short while...just felt the Lion made things darker/fuzzier as well as adding more body/warmth...Natural vs warmish I'd say now, with better imaging and tighter sub-bass..smoother slightly extended highs. Pricey tubes, (circa $200 for the 4 in UK) but worth it.

I have no idea which brand would be 'next level' after Psvane and what they could bring to the table over these....


----------



## muths66

Lohb said:


> Went back to Psvane on amp section vs Gold Lion I had in for a short while...just felt the Lion made things darker/fuzzier as well as adding more body/warmth...Natural vs warmish I'd say now, with better imaging and tighter sub-bass..smoother slightly extended highs. Pricey tubes, (circa $200 for the 4 in UK) but worth it.
> 
> I have no idea which brand would be 'next level' after Psvane and what they could bring to the table over these....


which circa model u saying??


----------



## Lohb

muths66 said:


> which circa model u saying??


I don't know what you mean, the corresponding model is the one stamped on top of the amp for each socket...the brand was Psvane.


----------



## muths66

oic. I trying find Siemens one. Very expensive.


----------



## FanaticSankey

Such a killer tube Preamp !!!! Dead silent, pin point imaging, incredible separation.  
Amazing pairing with my current chain. L300LE's Bass is hitting hard (harder than my prior Focal Clear) , Mids are stupendous and the Treble is tamed beautifully without losing extension. This amp is criminally underappreciated.

Chain : RPI4 (MoOde Audio) -> iFi iLink DDC -> Schiit Bifrost Multibit (Coaxial) -> Cayin HA1A-MK2 (Preamp) [NOS Brimar 12AU7] -> Stax SRM-353X -> Stax L300LE


----------



## Lohb

FanaticSankey said:


> This amp is criminally underappreciated.


Yip.


----------



## dpump

There has been a used HA-1A MK2 on eBay USA for a while for $650 with $55 shipping if anyone is interested. At one time I seem to remember TTVJ was selling it for $720 and MusicTeck for $800, but I think those prices went away with the pandemic.


----------



## gadgetgod

So I got my unit a few days back but one of the led's below the tubes has started to flicker. Is it normal?


----------



## sfo1972




----------



## pwspwsa

Hey guys,  I'm going to buy Cayin IDAC-6MK2 as DAC for Cayin HA-1A MK2 (as I understand @Andykong has same setup).  Is it good pair?


----------



## Lohb (May 15, 2021)

Interested in this now, based on suprising exp. with ES9028 Pro Dual DACs with discrete amp modules in my DAP.
Can modify the sound on 3 fronts I guess.. 2 different sets of tubes, and 1 set of DIP8 opamps.

Edit : aaah, the tubes are soldered on as buffer stage inside, with 10,000 hours life. Good to know.


----------



## WaveTheory

I just posted a review of the 1AMK2 here:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/cayin-ha-1amk2.25160/reviews#review-25867


----------



## Epika07 (May 28, 2021)

Hi, I just got this amp today and plugged in my ZMF Atticus, is there supposed to be hiss with this amp? Edit: No audible hiss/hum with my Arya


----------



## Lohb

Depends on cans, added power conditioning, tubes used, noise of your electrical system, ground loops etc.
Ifi have a new add-on where the plug goes in the back for that.


----------



## Epika07

Lohb said:


> Depends on cans, added power conditioning, tubes used, noise of your electrical system, ground loops etc.
> Ifi have a new add-on where the plug goes in the back for that.


Add-on?


----------



## Lohb (May 28, 2021)

Epika07 said:


> Add-on?


Physical accessory that plugs in the back of the amp.
https://ifi-audio.com/products/dc-blocker/
or ...quote from a review on a retailer
"*One Year on and the sound is even better*
I purchased the Cayin with stock tubes february 2020 and changed to PSvane matched pair for the 12AU7's at Christmas and had a general improvement in sound but the biggest improvement came this week February 2021 when I changed the EL84's to the PSvane matched pair, *the noise floor dropped*, the EH 84's were crackly and microphonic and the PSVanes weren't, they really made the music clearer almost like it was more focused with no more annoying crackles and fizz that the EH 84's were putting out. The Quality of the Pins on the PSVanes are top notch  and that really helps lower noise.  I'm now enjoying this Cayin even more, it just sounds so musical.
"
_- craig pollock "_


----------



## Epika07

Lohb said:


> Physical accessory that plugs in the back of the amp.
> https://ifi-audio.com/products/dc-blocker/
> or ...quote from a review on a retailer
> "*One Year on and the sound is even better*
> ...


Hmm do you think the dc blocker would fix the hum/hiss issue? Since I see on the page that it's meant to reduce noise from the actual amp and not through the headphones (correct me if I am wrong)? Do you think I'm only hearing hum through my Atticus because it's more sensitive than my Aryas?


----------



## muths66

Lohb said:


> Physical accessory that plugs in the back of the amp.
> https://ifi-audio.com/products/dc-blocker/
> or ...quote from a review on a retailer
> "*One Year on and the sound is even better*
> ...


this ifi dc blocker help emi problems??


----------



## iFi audio

muths66 said:


> this ifi dc blocker help emi problems??



DC Blocker is designed specifically to stop DC voltage from the mains that is responsible for humming transformers in audio products. 

In other words, if an audio box makes buzzing sound from within and is connected to the mains, the odds are that it DC Blocker will fix that noise.


----------



## muths66

iFi audio said:


> DC Blocker is designed specifically to stop DC voltage from the mains that is responsible for humming transformers in audio products.
> 
> In other words, if an audio box makes buzzing sound from within and is connected to the mains, the odds are that it DC Blocker will fix that noise.


oic.i don't have humming issue only sometimes with emi static sound.


----------



## Lohb

Epika07 said:


> Hmm do you think the dc blocker would fix the hum/hiss issue? Since I see on the page that it's meant to reduce noise from the actual amp and not through the headphones (correct me if I am wrong)? Do you think I'm only hearing hum through my Atticus because it's more sensitive than my Aryas?


noise floor is being detected by your more sensitive cans, so if you lower that behind the cans, it will have less hiss.
Anyway, ifi should be able to direct you to the right product to deal with it.


----------



## iFi audio

muths66 said:


> oic.i don't have humming issue only sometimes with emi static sound.



Can you describe the issue; how it manifests itself and what product it involves?


----------



## muths66

iFi audio said:


> Can you describe the issue; how it manifests itself and what product it involves?


nvm i try figure out myself 1st.thanks


----------



## Epika07

iFi audio said:


> Can you describe the issue; how it manifests itself and what product it involves?


I have my amp connected to an extension lead and not a wall socket, could that be a possible cause of hum? There is also a humming sound whenever I scroll my mouse


----------



## Andykong

Epika07 said:


> I have my amp connected to an extension lead and not a wall socket, could that be a possible cause of hum? There is also a humming sound whenever I scroll my mouse


Your PC is your USB Audio Source?

Previously an user find out the hum was originated from the LED backlight of his keyboard, and someone also reported that the hun was caused by the dimmer of the room lighting.

Test your system with  a non-USB source if available, if the hum disappeared, then its likely ground interference through the ground pain in your audio chain.


----------



## Epika07 (May 30, 2021)

Andykong said:


> Your PC is your USB Audio Source?
> 
> Previously an user find out the hum was originated from the LED backlight of his keyboard, and someone also reported that the hun was caused by the dimmer of the room lighting.
> 
> Test your system with  a non-USB source if available, if the hum disappeared, then its likely ground interference through the ground pain in your audio chain.


Hmm I can hear hum and hiss even when the PC is off Edit: I just pulled out the RCA cables from the amp and the hum/hiss is still audible, so I don't think it's the source. I'll try plugging the amp into a wall socket to see if I still hear it


----------



## Epika07 (May 30, 2021)

Andykong said:


> Your PC is your USB Audio Source?
> 
> Previously an user find out the hum was originated from the LED backlight of his keyboard, and someone also reported that the hun was caused by the dimmer of the room lighting.
> 
> Test your system with  a non-USB source if available, if the hum disappeared, then its likely ground interference through the ground pain in your audio chain.


Just tried plugging into a wall socket, hiss/hum is still there (this is with nothing plugged in, just my Atticus headphones). The hiss/hum gets louder as I turn the impedance switch. Edit: My Aryas are the only headphones that I have where I hear pretty much nothing even with impedance set at max, both my Atticus and Meze 99 Neo have noticeable hiss/hum


----------



## Andykong

Epika07 said:


> Hmm I can hear hum and hiss even when the PC is off Edit: I just pulled out the RCA cables from the amp and the hum/hiss is still audible, so I don't think it's the source. I'll try plugging the amp into a wall socket to see if I still hear it





Epika07 said:


> Just tried plugging into a wall socket, hiss/hum is still there (this is with nothing plugged in, just my Atticus headphones). The hiss/hum gets louder as I turn the impedance switch. Edit: My Aryas are the only headphones that I have where I hear pretty much nothing even with impedance set at max, both my Atticus and Meze 99 Neo have noticeable hiss/hum



The correct testing condition is to connect your amplifier to one source properly.  

When you listen to a Solid State amplifier on its own, without anything attached, you should hear the noise of the amplifier only, and in most case, dead silent, because the components in Solid State amplifier are operated in low impedance.  However, if you test your tube amplifier with the same condition, you'll run into open loop condition because the components in tube amplifiers are operated in much higher impedance.  I have explained open loop condition in another thread previously, you can check it out *HERE*.


----------



## Epika07

Andykong said:


> The correct testing condition is to connect your amplifier to one source properly.
> 
> When you listen to a Solid State amplifier on its own, without anything attached, you should hear the noise of the amplifier only, and in most case, dead silent, because the components in Solid State amplifier are operated in low impedance.  However, if you test your tube amplifier with the same condition, you'll run into open loop condition because the components in tube amplifiers are operated in much higher impedance.  I have explained open loop condition in another thread previously, you can check it out *HERE*.


So some hum/hiss when nothing is connected to the amp is normal, correct?


----------



## Andykong

Epika07 said:


> So some hum/hiss when nothing is connected to the amp is normal, correct?


yes, happen quite often when there is RF interference in the room


----------



## WaveTheory

Epika07 said:


> So some hum/hiss when nothing is connected to the amp is normal, correct?


How is all your gear arranged on your desk/rack? I had a ZDT Jr. before I had the 1Amk2. When I first got it it had some hum and hiss like you describe. It's first position was right next to my external HDD. Moving the ZDT Jr and the HDD about 2 feet away from each other solved the problem. If your 1Amk2 is close to other electronic gear, give it some physical separation and see what happens.


----------



## Epika07

WaveTheory said:


> How is all your gear arranged on your desk/rack? I had a ZDT Jr. before I had the 1Amk2. When I first got it it had some hum and hiss like you describe. It's first position was right next to my external HDD. Moving the ZDT Jr and the HDD about 2 feet away from each other solved the problem. If your 1Amk2 is close to other electronic gear, give it some physical separation and see what happens.


Hmm I have my amp positioned on the floor less than a meter away from my PC which is also on the floor


----------



## pwspwsa

Finally bought both Cayin units 
Enjoying now! Actually I was a bit shocked how neutral this setup sounds even with vacuum tube mode on DAC.


----------



## Epika07

An ifi iDefender+ seems to have reduced the hiss/hum by quite a bit, but still not silent (this is at the lowest impedance setting)


----------



## Andykong

Epika07 said:


> An ifi iDefender+ seems to have reduced the hiss/hum by quite a bit, but still not silent (this is at the lowest impedance setting)



iFi Defender handles ground loop noise, if this is effective to your system, you probably should look at the ground related issues in your setup.  It can be ground loop from your DAC or source, or it can be insufficient ground isolation among  your USB devices.


----------



## Epika07

How does one go about removing the cover to access the tubes?


----------



## azkkr

Has anyone tried the HA-1A MK2 with all open-back ZMFs? I am looking to build a system around the ZMF open back trinity and considering it as the main amp. The other options I am looking into are the Liquid Platinum, Hagermann Tuba and Feliks Echo MKII. I have posted/will post a similar question in their respective threads, not to hijack this one. Any thoughts/suggestions are most welcome. Cheers!


----------



## Epika07

azkkr said:


> Has anyone tried the HA-1A MK2 with all open-back ZMFs? I am looking to build a system around the ZMF open back trinity and considering it as the main amp. The other options I am looking into are the Liquid Platinum, Hagermann Tuba and Feliks Echo MKII. I have posted/will post a similar question in their respective threads, not to hijack this one. Any thoughts/suggestions are most welcome. Cheers!


I haven't tried any of the open-backs with it, just the Atticus, which I've also listened to on the Echo MK1. I do have an Auteur on the way though


----------



## azkkr

How do you like it with the Atticus? And could you please give me a heads up once your Auteur arrives? Thanks


----------



## Epika07

azkkr said:


> How do you like it with the Atticus? And could you please give me a heads up once your Auteur arrives? Thanks


The Atticus slams even harder on the Cayin than the Echo, there seems to be more sub-bass as well. I do have some hiss/hum though which may be caused by the stock tubes, which are apparently not that good. The Echo had a much blacker background


----------



## Epika07

azkkr said:


> How do you like it with the Atticus? And could you please give me a heads up once your Auteur arrives? Thanks


Sure I'll let you know how I get on with the Auteur once I've had time to listen to them properly


----------



## Lohb (Jun 9, 2021)

Anyone tried the Bottehead Mainline vs the Cayin ?

Edit : NVM, it's underpowered for my planars I was told.


----------



## martas38

Hello! Does anyone have experience playing this with the Audeze LCD-X? Isn't there noise or hum?


----------



## Lohb

Not with my XCs...planars seem to be quite resistant to the noise floor vs some dynamics.


----------



## martas38

And is it a good pairing? I have a RME ADI-2 DAC FS and I want to try Cayin tubes.


----------



## Lohb

Yes, excellent pairing as tested with three R2R DACs..am about to receive a Hugo2 DAC which will bring a different taste to the amp..but it has been great with all my planars...tubes used were PSvane in pre-amp and amp section....


----------



## WaveTheory (Jun 12, 2021)

martas38 said:


> And is it a good pairing? I have a RME ADI-2 DAC FS and I want to try Cayin tubes.


I'll give a brief differing opinion. To my ear you have to be careful matching planars to 1Amk2. I've only heard 1 work great (LCD-2 prefazor), 2 work ok to good (Arya, HekV2), and the rest were just bad, IMO (Edition X V2, Diana Phi, LCD-24). The rule of thumb appears to be the harder to drive the planar is, the better the odds it will work on 1Amk2. However, in my list there is a rulebreaker, Diana Phi. It's a harder driving planar that really dulled on the 1Amk2. Arya and HekV2 were ok but lost a lot of their soundstage depth, sounding very 2D. They maintained most of their detail and timbre, tho. The easy driving planars really turn into a sloppy mess, IMO. The LCD-X is an easy drive for a planar. I haven't heard the pairing so it might be fine. But odds are it won't be its best. These are based on stock tubes.


----------



## Lohb

Have an LCD-4 inbound to test with Cayin, least I have a choice of 2 tube brands to dial on on the amp section..
PSVane vs Gold Lions....


----------



## Foulcher

Hello,

I just ordered the HA-1A Mk2 and I have a dumb question but would it be possible to connect my iphone directly using a jack->RCA cable to this amp ? I am quite a noob and used a Marantz CD6006 USB to connect my iPhone and benefit from the integrated headphone amp but it started to get boring since there is no real remote control and the unit is far away from my desk.
I do not want to harm my iPhone or the HA-1A but since I remember that iPhones have pretty good DACs (I am not really an audiophile - for now at least - and bought the Cayin for its aesthetics and maybe future usage) and I do not like DACs selection in UE (Schiit products are out of stock and I really want to wait for a Modi but if I really, really need it I could buy a DacMagic or something else).
Is there a risk to plug the iphone directly ? (using the lightning->jack adapter then jack->RCA) And will there be too much noise ? I have an AKG712 Pro.

Thanks


----------



## WaveTheory

Foulcher said:


> Hello,
> 
> I just ordered the HA-1A Mk2 and I have a dumb question but would it be possible to connect my iphone directly using a jack->RCA cable to this amp ? I am quite a noob and used a Marantz CD6006 USB to connect my iPhone and benefit from the integrated headphone amp but it started to get boring since there is no real remote control and the unit is far away from my desk.
> I do not want to harm my iPhone or the HA-1A but since I remember that iPhones have pretty good DACs (I am not really an audiophile - for now at least - and bought the Cayin for its aesthetics and maybe future usage) and I do not like DACs selection in UE (Schiit products are out of stock and I really want to wait for a Modi but if I really, really need it I could buy a DacMagic or something else).
> ...


There is no danger here. It will work just fine. As for the noise...it depends. It won't be as clean as an outboard dac will give you, but I don't expect much extra noise. I still encourage you to get an outboard dac down the road just for sound quality reasons.


----------



## Foulcher (Jun 15, 2021)

Thanks, it would be my first tube amp usage so I was a bit stressed out for this. Out of curiosity, I tested the iPhone jack adapter by plugging it to my Marantz NR1200 and at first I tought the setup did not work since there was no sound at all. Then I played music louder on both amp and iPhone (like 80-90% on iPhone) and the sound came. The output power of the adapter seems very low even if it can power my AKG 712 Pro alone (it is not clean and full as CD6006 but OK) so the limiting factor might be the amp part of the dongle. Still I prefer to wait for a better DAC choice (maybe with Apple Lossless release new material/interfaces will come because the current workaround with the camera adapter is very boring). I saw that Belkin released an AirPlay 2 connector (Soundfrom Connect), that might do the trick for now (and CD quality is enough for me) before I can find a more versatile unit. While working using a smartphone is just more convenient to switch tracks.


----------



## Andykong

Foulcher said:


> Hello,
> 
> I just ordered the HA-1A Mk2 and I have a dumb question but would it be possible to connect my iphone directly using a jack->RCA cable to this amp ? I am quite a noob and used a Marantz CD6006 USB to connect my iPhone and benefit from the integrated headphone amp but it started to get boring since there is no real remote control and the unit is far away from my desk.
> I do not want to harm my iPhone or the HA-1A but since I remember that iPhones have pretty good DACs (I am not really an audiophile - for now at least - and bought the Cayin for its aesthetics and maybe future usage) and I do not like DACs selection in UE (Schiit products are out of stock and I really want to wait for a Modi but if I really, really need it I could buy a DacMagic or something else).
> ...





Foulcher said:


> Thanks, it would be my first tube amp usage so I was a bit stressed out for this. Out of curiosity, I tested the iPhone jack adapter by plugging it to my Marantz NR1200 and at first I tought the setup did not work since there was no sound at all. Then I played music louder on both amp and iPhone (like 80-90% on iPhone) and the sound came. The output power of the adapter seems very low even if it can power my AKG 712 Pro alone (it is not clean and full as CD6006 but OK) so the limiting factor might be the amp part of the dongle. Still I prefer to wait for a better DAC choice (maybe with Apple Lossless release new material/interfaces will come because the current workaround with the camera adapter is very boring). I saw that Belkin released an AirPlay 2 connector (Soundfrom Connect), that might do the trick for now (and CD quality is enough for me) before I can find a more versatile unit. While working using a smartphone is just more convenient to switch tracks.



You have mentioned "boring" twice, I assume you put "interesting" before sound quality? 

Technically, you can use iPhone + lightning adapter as source to HA-1Amk2.  It is convenient, and you can use the iPhone as streaming source to the HA-1Amk2.

iPhone uses a integrated IC approach to handle the digital to analogue function, it is a software/DAP based solution, so from hardware perspective, there is no DAC inside iPhone.  When you use a lightning adapter that offer a 3.5mm phone out jack, iphone will output digital bitstream to the adapter, and there is a DAC inside the lightning adapter.  

"at first I tought the setup did not work since there was no sound at all. Then I played music louder on both amp and iPhone (like 80-90% on iPhone) and the sound came."  This is perfectly normal, because you are using phone out as a line level output.  Your integrated amplifier is expecting a 2V  line level input, and the headphone output of your lightning adapter probably only deliver 0.2V only at low volume level.  Even when you turn up the volume to maximum, it is still far  from 2V. So, turning up everything to maximum is a must, and even with that, it still fall short form the standard operation condition, technically.  If you want to experience the different, when your HA-1AMK2 arrived, try to select one song that is available on your iPhone and CD, connect your Marantz CD6006 to CD input of HA-1Amk2, and  iphone + lightning adapter to AUX input, then you can AB compare the same song from CD player and iPhone.  If you hear only insignificant different between the two source, then you can stick with your adapter for the moment.  If you can hear significant different, then you should buy a DAC for your HA-1Amk2 promptly. 

Last but not least, when you select your reference song to compare iphone+adapter vs CD player, try to find a song that has multiple instruments, it can be a live jazz, a symphony, or a band track with multiple guitars.


----------



## Lohb

Anyone tried out hybrid Pathos Aurium in comparison to Ha-1A Mk2 ?


----------



## Foulcher (Jun 22, 2021)

Sorry if I did not made myself clear, actually the French word for "boring" (i.e. _ennuyeux_) can also mean "annoying" or even "troublesome" and that what I meant by that. Indeed my Marantz CD6006 is "far" away from my desk. So when I work I use a 20-25 meters jack wire connected to it but the lightning cable connected to is is quite short and thus I must walk between my desk and the Hifi to change track. That is why I "needed" an headphone amp.
About the DAC, I am honestly on the skeptical side of the spectrum when it comes to the added value of external devices and higher-end parts since all measure about the same (when at least properly built). And because I use mostly my smartphone with headphones (else I use loudpseakers), I am bothered by the fact that I must buy an adapter to bypass a stupid Apple limitation. I was interested however by compact streamers like Yamaha WCX 50...but it is a very old material without Airplay 2 or the really convenient USB host feature. Other streamers are either to big, overpriced (for my limited use at least) or not satisfying. That is why I prefer to wait for a compact model with the features I want.

Anyway, I tested the Lightning to Jack adapter and I am happy to report that it works fine with the HA-1A Mk2 ! I put my iPhone to 60-70% to avoid to much distortion and 1/3 or 1/2 on the amp (a bit more or less depending on the song) is plenty loud to my ears. I also tested with my motherboard and 10-15% of the front jack + like 20-30% of the HA-1A Mk2 produces a really powerful sound.
To be honest, the Apple adapter alone was bordeline enough for my headphones (just a little bit less full and "alive"/dynamic than the 6006) and thus I did not hear a striking difference using the HA-1A Mk2. In fact, i did not expected one aside from a "tubey" distorted sound (I would have been happy to hear it to be honest ^^) or the noise reported there. The output is dead silent and I maybe heard some crackling but just a little bit and I have to check if it is not part of the song actually.
The amp is so overkill for my use I guess but I do not care as it is really beautiful, especially when you hear Jazz and/or vintage sound like the Bioshock soundtrack at night. it is perfectly clean, silent as my solid state amp and motherboard. I wanted to buy at first an Atoll HD120 (French manufacturer) but the deisgn was a bit "boring" (this time I use the good term) and i guess the sound quality would have been the same for my gear (to answer you, yes I can sacrifice a bit of sound quality for the aesthetics but I will never know what sounds best and the difference are probably pretty minor) and -more importantly - the Atoll was too large, the vertical form-factor of the Cayin is perfect for me. All frequencies are present, maybe the mids are a bit recessed ? But honestly I do not know and I still need to AB-test different sources as you advised, I will probably do it during the WE because I have to move the amp which is quite heavy (and i do not want to break it...or my floor !). My current comparisons are biased since the switch was really long and the audio level was far from matched.

To come back to my impressions, aside from the aesthetics and the sound quality which are nice, I decided to put the AKG 712 Pro in the 65-150 Ohms impedance setting. I know that thes headphones are just in-between two settings but the higher one was marginally but noticeably more defined and "alive". The last thing that striked me is how much heat the unit produces. I read that tubes produced heat but I did not imagine that it would produce that much ! It raised close-room temperature by >~1 °C (+ almost another °C with the desktop computer on) and the metal becomes very hot quite quickly. I do not mind but it really striked me, at least I will maybe not need  to turn the heater on during winter... ^^

Bottom line, I am pleased by my purchase, especially at ~680 euros new (I would not have bought it at 800 to be perfectly honest, it is even a bit too much for my use as audio is not a real hobby, especially headphones - for me and I might forget it after pandemia. If RTX 307* or PS5 were available, i might have bought any of them instead) and my next (and probably final) target is to buy a HD800S to fully take advantage of the gear.

EDIT : I AB'ed the iPhone and the PC (2012 high end motherboard with SupremeFX III), it was almost really blind the first times since I did not know which was plugged to which input and I preferred just a bit more the PC but it was a close call. It was roughly level-matched with an Apple Watch mic so I would say that in fact the sound was equal or not significant (maybe a bit wider sound from motherboard but a bit cleaner from iphone, like 0.5%). I also tested the NPR file quality test and I finally succeed (4/6 then 5/6 I chose the WAV over 320mbps, one track is impossible for me but it is only a voice...) so I guess that the amp performs well. I need then to AB it vs CD6006 headphone out and dac. These ones will be a bit more difficult.


----------



## Harryhurst

Hello everyone,

First time poster here.  I'm new to the tube amp side of things, but I've pretty well decided on this amp for an office listening setup.  I get a decent discount on the amp through work so if I don't happen to like the 'tube sound' I should be able to recoup my cost pretty easily.  For the moment I'll be feeding it Tidal/ROON via a Halide Design DAC HD.  Where I'm having trouble though is deciding what closed back headphone to pair with.

I've currently got some LCD'3s which I love and will continue to use with my SS system at home.  That has me considering a pair of LCD-2 closed backs, or potentially some DCA Aeon 2 Closed.  I've also done a fair bit of reading on Final Audio.  Open to suggestions around that price point, but as it will be for office use low sound leakage is key.  Some of the closed back Focal's were in the running but a few reviews talk about them not being the most sealed for keeping sound in.

Thoughts?


----------



## WaveTheory

Harryhurst said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> First time poster here.  I'm new to the tube amp side of things, but I've pretty well decided on this amp for an office listening setup.  I get a decent discount on the amp through work so if I don't happen to like the 'tube sound' I should be able to recoup my cost pretty easily.  For the moment I'll be feeding it Tidal/ROON via a Halide Design DAC HD.  Where I'm having trouble though is deciding what closed back headphone to pair with.
> 
> ...


You're new to tubes but it sounds like you've been hanging around solid state for awhile? What kind of sound signature are you after and what kind of music do you want to optimize? And what's your budget?


----------



## Epika07

Is there a difference between the CD and AUX inputs? Or are they just named differently but are otherwise identical?


----------



## WaveTheory

Epika07 said:


> Is there a difference between the CD and AUX inputs? Or are they just named differently but are otherwise identical?


No difference, just two standard stereo rca inputs with arbitrary labels.


----------



## Harryhurst

WaveTheory said:


> You're new to tubes but it sounds like you've been hanging around solid state for awhile? What kind of sound signature are you after and what kind of music do you want to optimize? And what's your budget?


Hey thanks for the reply! So yes, solid state all the time to this point really.  I've actually been super happy with my Burson ss amp, but don't want to give tubes a pass just because I've never used them.  Happy to have something a lot more coloured than what ss gives me.  Listen to a bit of everything but I'd say day to day would move between a lot of electronica, some female vocalist London Grammar type stuff....less often would be some metal and hip hop.  Budget would be about in around the closed back lcd 2's which ends up around $1300AUD.  The goal here is fun kicked back setup for work listening.  That being said if whatever I buy works better with my current Burson Soloist and the Cayin (or other tube/tube hybrid) sounds good with my open LCD3's I'm happy to shuffle around for home.  

Basically looking for nice, not crazy cost closed backs that sound fun for the tunes I listen to.


----------



## WaveTheory

Harryhurst said:


> Hey thanks for the reply! So yes, solid state all the time to this point really.  I've actually been super happy with my Burson ss amp, but don't want to give tubes a pass just because I've never used them.  Happy to have something a lot more coloured than what ss gives me.  Listen to a bit of everything but I'd say day to day would move between a lot of electronica, some female vocalist London Grammar type stuff....less often would be some metal and hip hop.  Budget would be about in around the closed back lcd 2's which ends up around $1300AUD.  The goal here is fun kicked back setup for work listening.  That being said if whatever I buy works better with my current Burson Soloist and the Cayin (or other tube/tube hybrid) sounds good with my open LCD3's I'm happy to shuffle around for home.
> 
> Basically looking for nice, not crazy cost closed backs that sound fun for the tunes I listen to.


IMO the 1Amk2 isn't the best for many planars and low impedance dynamic headphones. The LCD-2 open is one of the few that sounds really good on it. The LCD-2 closed might be fine but isn't generally regarded as being all that great. I think your best bet to match both the amp and your stated tastes would be to see if you can land a ZMF Atticus or Eikon at a price you're comfortable with. They are closed back, play well with tube amps, and the ZMF sound is pretty good for the genres you lean toward. More easily available in Australia might be the Beyerdynamic DT1770. The 250 ohm version is the best bet. The signature might be too v shaped for you, but I don't know. Good luck!


----------



## Foulcher

Hello,

To come back to my HA-1A Mk2 experience, I have finally compared it to the Marantz CD6006 headphone output. I connected the RCA out from the CD6006 to the Cayin amp and so AB'ed both ouputs (the DAC is of course the same due to the wiring).
It was not really easy as it was not blind (I could have asked to my GF but I did not think about it at the time), as my dB-meter was my Apple Watch as always and because switching was not really fast.

But after having gone through a selection of CDs, I would say that the HA-1A Mk2 was overall more appealing. I noticed quite quickly the difference but couldn't really say what was really different. On tracks without that much basses, both are clear and detailed. However, when there are mixed basses, HA-1A Mk2 seemed to have more punch and power. In fact the CD6006 headphone output was somewhere between Headphone B of the HA-1A and the Headphone A output (or the A output with the minimal impedance), so a bit more "quiet" (HA-1A Mk2 sounds louder with the same displayed dB, so I guess that there are more basses). HA-1A Mk2 sounds also a bit "wider" but in an "acoustic" way (like hearing breath when someone sings).I do not know if it is the "tube" sound (objectively CD6006 sound a bit cleaner but I have the feeling that Marantz tries to replicate a bit of the "tube" sound with HDAM but also a bit more "dry"/"less lively").

I will not say which is better or not, I think the difference is subtle (especially at low impedance setting) but the HA-1A Mk2 was marginally more pleasing and huge in basses.
I unfontunately forgot to test iPhone dongle vs CD6006 RCA on HA-1A Mk2 but that does not matter for now (it might when I will purchase a HD800S, probably this winter or during the French summer sale tomorrow).

I posted a picture of my "setup", definitely (a lot) messier (not to say it is a dump) than others. I changed many things on my desk (monitor, etc.) so I have to organize that


----------



## Epika07

Anyone else used ZMFs with this amp and get hiss/hum when using the higher impedance settings? At the lowest setting the noise isn't that bad but not sure if I'm compromising on sound by not having it at a higher setting


----------



## WaveTheory

Epika07 said:


> Anyone else used ZMFs with this amp and get hiss/hum when using the higher impedance settings?



I have not used a ZMF. I don't recall any hiss through my 300 ohm Senns or 600 ohm Beyers, though. Hum is just kinda a thing with tube amps. Mine hums when I crank the volume pot up really high.



Epika07 said:


> At the lowest setting the noise isn't that bad but not sure if I'm compromising on sound by not having it at a higher setting



You're not compromising, per se, you're just finding a setting you like. The impedance settings adjust the output impedance, which controls the damping factor. The damping factor is the ratio of load impedance (your headphone's impedance) to the output impedance. The higher the output impedance, the lower the damping factor. Damping factor gives you an idea of how quickly the amplifier can stop a headphone/speaker driver from moving, or stated another way, large damping factor allows the amplifier to impart a larger acceleration to the driver. The higher the damping factor the more controlled the driver will be. That sounds great, but there can be too much of a good thing there. Too much damping and the sound can be very dry and chalky. On the other end, too little damping and the sound gets very wet and sloppy. WIth 1AMK2 and 300 ohm cans, the damping factor will be enough on all settings to give you a very detailed, well controlled sound. But, the different settings allow you set to  your preference how dry or wet you like it. Apologies if that's too pedantic, but I just wanted to make it clear that you're not compromising and all you're doing is a little bit of tuning to taste. Enjoy!


----------



## Epika07

WaveTheory said:


> I have not used a ZMF. I don't recall any hiss through my 300 ohm Senns or 600 ohm Beyers, though. Hum is just kinda a thing with tube amps. Mine hums when I crank the volume pot up really high.
> 
> 
> 
> You're not compromising, per se, you're just finding a setting you like. The impedance settings adjust the output impedance, which controls the damping factor. The damping factor is the ratio of load impedance (your headphone's impedance) to the output impedance. The higher the output impedance, the lower the damping factor. Damping factor gives you an idea of how quickly the amplifier can stop a headphone/speaker driver from moving, or stated another way, large damping factor allows the amplifier to impart a larger acceleration to the driver. The higher the damping factor the more controlled the driver will be. That sounds great, but there can be too much of a good thing there. Too much damping and the sound can be very dry and chalky. On the other end, too little damping and the sound gets very wet and sloppy. WIth 1AMK2 and 300 ohm cans, the damping factor will be enough on all settings to give you a very detailed, well controlled sound. But, the different settings allow you set to  your preference how dry or wet you like it. Apologies if that's too pedantic, but I just wanted to make it clear that you're not compromising and all you're doing is a little bit of tuning to taste. Enjoy!


Hmm I get hum with the volume pot not even halfway. I have the Cayin connected to a Modi 3 DAC connected to my PC via USB, and there's a low background hum which is made worse whenever I scroll my mouse. Wish I knew what the cause was...
Do you think changing the tubes would help? I've already swapped out the 12AU7s to Golden Dragons though and it hasn't seemed to make much difference


----------



## Andykong

Epika07 said:


> Hmm I get hum with the volume pot not even halfway. I have the Cayin connected to a Modi 3 DAC connected to my PC via USB, and there's a low background hum which is made worse whenever I scroll my mouse. Wish I knew what the cause was...
> Do you think changing the tubes would help? I've already swapped out the 12AU7s to Golden Dragons though and it hasn't seemed to make much difference


I think your DAC is not properly isolated from its USB receiver, so the ground noise of your PC has leaked into the tube amplifier.  If you can unplug the PC from your DAC and test your system with a non-USB source, the noise should be improved.  Not sure if this is the only noise source in your system, we can only debug them one after the other.

Tube rolling will only have minor effect because some vacuum tube are less sensitive to interference, but it won't solve the problem because the noise are coming from upstream.


----------



## WaveTheory

Epika07 said:


> Hmm I get hum with the volume pot not even halfway. I have the Cayin connected to a Modi 3 DAC connected to my PC via USB, and there's a low background hum which is made worse whenever I scroll my mouse. Wish I knew what the cause was...
> Do you think changing the tubes would help? I've already swapped out the 12AU7s to Golden Dragons though and it hasn't seemed to make much difference


After this added info I agree with @Andykong that you likely have some usb noise happening. To check you can use a 3.5mm to rca y cable and plug your phone into the 1Amk2. If the hum goes away then yes, it's most likely usb noise. There are few potential fixes for this which I won't list until you've confirmed...lots of typing, lol. Good luck! I've had usb noise before and it is irritating.


----------



## Epika07

Andykong said:


> I think your DAC is not properly isolated from its USB receiver, so the ground noise of your PC has leaked into the tube amplifier.  If you can unplug the PC from your DAC and test your system with a non-USB source, the noise should be improved.  Not sure if this is the only noise source in your system, we can only debug them one after the other.
> 
> Tube rolling will only have minor effect because some vacuum tube are less sensitive to interference, but it won't solve the problem because the noise are coming from upstream.


Just tried plugging my DAC to my PS5 via optical, and there seems to be no hum (or very quiet) on the lowest impedance setting...


----------



## Epika07

WaveTheory said:


> After this added info I agree with @Andykong that you likely have some usb noise happening. To check you can use a 3.5mm to rca y cable and plug your phone into the 1Amk2. If the hum goes away then yes, it's most likely usb noise. There are few potential fixes for this which I won't list until you've confirmed...lots of typing, lol. Good luck! I've had usb noise before and it is irritating.


Using a non-usb source i.e. optical from my DAC to my PS5 seems to have eliminated most of the hum... so I'm guessing it is USB noise then?


----------



## Andykong (Jul 3, 2021)

Epika07 said:


> Just tried plugging my DAC to my PS5 via optical, and there seems to be no hum (or very quiet) on the lowest impedance setting...



Did you unplug the USB Audio input when you switch to optical from PS5?

As I said, there can be more than one source of interference, after you eliminated the USB noise, maybe other noise become noticeable and you need to handle them one by one.


----------



## Epika07

Andykong said:


> Did you unplug the USB Audio input when you switch to optical from PS5?


Yep, unplugged the USB cable connecting my DAC to my PC before connecting my DAC to my PS5 via optical


----------



## Andykong

Epika07 said:


> Yep, unplugged the USB cable connecting my DAC to my PC before connecting my DAC to my PS5 via optical


 Now you are ready to look for the next interference, it can be any RF devices, or even the dimmer of your lighting.


----------



## Epika07

Andykong said:


> Now you are ready to look for the next interference, it can be any RF devices, or even the dimmer of your lighting.


I honestly have no idea what it could be tbh... I don't think lighting is the cause since switching my lights off doesn't make a difference


----------



## Andykong

Epika07 said:


> I honestly have no idea what it could be tbh... I don't think lighting is the cause since switching my lights off doesn't make a difference



I am just providing example to illustrate that the source of interference can be something totally unexpected.  Lighting normally don't cause any problem, but if you are using a dimmer control instead of regular on/off control, that can be a hidden problem.


----------



## Epika07

WaveTheory said:


> After this added info I agree with @Andykong that you likely have some usb noise happening. To check you can use a 3.5mm to rca y cable and plug your phone into the 1Amk2. If the hum goes away then yes, it's most likely usb noise. There are few potential fixes for this which I won't list until you've confirmed...lots of typing, lol. Good luck! I've had usb noise before and it is irritating.


I'm curious about what the fixes are... USB isolators I've used like ifi defender/silencer only reduce the noise by a little bit. This problem is slowly driving me nuts haha


----------



## WaveTheory

Epika07 said:


> This problem is slowly driving me nuts haha



For sure! That noise gets irritating quickly.



Epika07 said:


> USB isolators I've used like ifi defender/silencer only reduce the noise by a little bit



I had the same problem.



Epika07 said:


> I'm curious about what the fixes are



Disclaimer: USB ground loops can be super hard to get rid of. Cheaper fixes may only have limited effectiveness, or they could knock it out. It all depends. Let's go cheap to expensive:

1) Run optical instead of USB - if you can. You mentioned using the optical input in a previous post, IIRC. If your PC has an optical out, just use that and disconnect USB entirely. You'll still need to use a wall wart and USB power cable for the Modi, tho.

2) Get an in-line ground loop isolator and put it between the dac and the amp. This type of thing: https://www.amazon.com/PAC-SNI-1-Noise-Isolator/dp/B000K50HJE/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=rca+ground+loop+isolator&qid=1625512384&sr=8-5. This worked well for me. The only time I heard the ground loop noise was when the pots on my amps were near maxed-out.

3) Get a DDC (digital-to-digital converter) with good USB noise isolation. These get pricey. The Matrix Audio X-SPDIF 2 and the Singxer SU-2 are gonna be the starting points an they're both in the neighborhood of 400USD.

4) Go completely balanced between your DAC and amp...which would of course require new dac and amp. Using balanced connections between your dac and amp will naturally reject that ground loop noise. But, it ain't cheap, and balanced tube amps are quite rare. 

I'd start with 1 or 2 or both and see what it does for you. Good luck!


----------



## Epika07

WaveTheory said:


> For sure! That noise gets irritating quickly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot for typing all that out  I really love this amp's sound so it's just a bummer to have to put up with the noise 

My PC doesn't have an optical out unfortunately, so I think option 1's out haha. The Amazon link for option 2 links to moon-audio?


----------



## WaveTheory

Epika07 said:


> Thanks a lot for typing all that out  I really love this amp's sound so it's just a bummer to have to put up with the noise
> 
> My PC doesn't have an optical out unfortunately, so I think option 1's out haha. The Amazon link for option 2 links to moon-audio?



So it does. Grumble. Try this: https://www.amazon.com/PAC-SNI-1-No...ca+ground+loop+isolator&qid=1625520114&sr=8-5


----------



## Epika07

WaveTheory said:


> So it does. Grumble. Try this: https://www.amazon.com/PAC-SNI-1-No...ca+ground+loop+isolator&qid=1625520114&sr=8-5


Is it the PAC SNI-1 Noise Isolator?


----------



## WaveTheory

Epika07 said:


> Is it the PAC SNI-1 Noise Isolator?



Yes


----------



## Epika07

WaveTheory said:


> Yes


Damn... it's not available on Amazon UK


----------



## WaveTheory

Epika07 said:


> Damn... it's not available on Amazon UK



Was afraid of that. There are a variety of similar products, though. I'm sure you'll find something that is the same type of thing. Good luck!


----------



## Epika07

WaveTheory said:


> Yes


I found this https://www.amazon.co.uk/AV-Link-Gr...WB9O/ref=dp_prsubs_2?pd_rd_i=B000NVWB9O&psc=1 but not sure if it would do the same thing


----------



## WaveTheory

Epika07 said:


> I found this https://www.amazon.co.uk/AV-Link-Gr...WB9O/ref=dp_prsubs_2?pd_rd_i=B000NVWB9O&psc=1 but not sure if it would do the same thing



It should. I can't speak for the individual model, but under 10 pounds it's very low risk to find out if it works.


----------



## Epika07

WaveTheory said:


> It should. I can't speak for the individual model, but under 10 pounds it's very low risk to find out if it works.


Yeah I'll just get it and return it if it doesn't work. Fingers crossed!


----------



## dougms3

Have you tried isolating the power cable plug for the amp?

If you have it connected to a power strip, try plugging it separately from other devices.  ie Directly into wall outlet by itself.


----------



## Epika07

Epika07 said:


> Yeah I'll just get it and return it if it doesn't work. Fingers crossed!


Super happy to report that the ground loop isolator has completely eliminated like 95% of the noise, all I can hear now is a faint hiss and a barely audible hum, no more annoying noise when I move my mouse etc. Glad that I only had to spend £8 for this fix. Now I can finally fully enjoy this amp! Btw, what tubes are recommended? I see people saying Gold Lion and PSVane are good but for 12AU7 or EL84?


----------



## Epika07

Just installed 12AU7 Gold Lions today and one of the tubes aren't lighting up, should I be worried? Could it be that I installed them incorrectly?


----------



## WaveTheory

Epika07 said:


> Just installed 12AU7 Gold Lions today and one of the tubes aren't lighting up, should I be worried? Could it be that I installed them incorrectly?


Hmmm, usually tubes only go in one way. Make sure it's pushed all the way in. If that doesn't help, it could be a bad tube. To check just out the old tube back in and see if it lights up.


----------



## Epika07

WaveTheory said:


> Hmmm, usually tubes only go in one way. Make sure it's pushed all the way in. If that doesn't help, it could be a bad tube. To check just out the old tube back in and see if it lights up.


Tried removing the tube and inserting it back in which fixed it, probably didn't push it all the way in the first time like you said. It's a little difficult to know for sure if the tubes are seated all the way in because of the glass panel inside the amp haha. Time to burn-in these new 12AU7 Gold Lions and EL84 PSVanes


----------



## WaveTheory

Epika07 said:


> Time to burn-in these new 12AU7 Gold Lions and EL84 PSVanes


Sweet! IME the Gold Lions take in the range of 150-200 hours to truly burn in. PSVane are also new production and are likely similar. So don't judge them too harshly early on. They will smooth and sweeten in time.


----------



## Foulcher (Jul 19, 2021)

I finally bought two buddies for the amp :










I also finally purchased the Apple CCK and it works fine. PC is connected via optical and the IPhone with the USB. HD560S purchase was somewhat a wild guess from FR and subjective report to replace AKG 712 Pro as my main headphones as I have never really been satisfied with AKG sound (very hollow with a weird soundstage feeling and devoured voices). I really did not expect it to sound so good, this is the RS130 sound style (of course better with HD560S but with the same neutral-bright tone) I was after (I somewhat dislike RS175/185 "dark"/"muddy" sound), it is absolutely perfect to me (all the spectrum is here, nothing stands too much or not enough). The Cayin HA-1A Mk2 adds to it the possibility to make the sound more "fun" with bass/low mids additions (which does not result in too much distortion, in fact the subtle distortion is pleasing). For the perfect clean SS sound, I put the impedance selector at the lowest setting. For a more pleasing sound (but not superior, it depends on the mood), I set the selector at the two levels before 600 Ohms. The difference between settings is far more noticeable compared to the AKG.

Now I have my killer endgame headphones setup close to heaven, that is what I was after. I do no know if the DAC really adds a cleaner sound since I did not compare with the AKG but there is absolutely nothing to criticize (i.e. it is clean as hell). I use the DAC in SS mode, two tubes layers is just too much to my taste. Having this "hub" is practical and even if the price is probably overkill but at least I bought it once and for all. The pairing with HD560S is very good and of course the power is not a problem at all (with the iPhone volume set at max, HA-1A Mk2 volume is just a bit higher than 0).


----------



## Taz777

Is anyone using low-impedance planar headphones with this amp? I'm looking for a valve amp for my Audexe LCD-X which are just 20 Ohms impedance.

On a separate note, the size of the Cayin HA-1A MK2 seems quite substantial. Is it bigger than you thought it would be?

Finally, is it worth getting the tube upgrade from the shop or tube rolling yourself? For example, the retailer can do stock EL84 --> PS Vane EL84T Mk2 and stock 12AU7 --> Golden Dragon 12AU7 and this bumps up the price quite a bit. However, I've seen from a tube supplier the following recommendations: stock EL82 --> Sovtek and stock 12AU7 --> JJ ECC82 and buying those separately is a little cheaper.


----------



## WaveTheory

Taz777 said:


> Is anyone using low-impedance planar headphones with this amp? I'm looking for a valve amp for my Audexe LCD-X which are just 20 Ohms impedance.


I've had a mixed bag of results, even within brands. For Audeze the LCD-2 sounds great with the 1AMK2, but the LCD-24 sounded not good at all. For HiFiMan, the Edition X V2 was garbage on the 1AMK2 while the Arya and HE1000v2 were good to very good, but still not the best you can do for them at the price. I think the 1AMK2 still needs a fairly hard-driving load to sound its best. The LCD-2 is fairly hi Z for a planar and the Arya and HE1000v2 are not known for their efficiency. The Edition X V2 and the LCD-24 are both easy drives. 

To your tube rolling question, IMO you're better off swapping tubes yourself. You'll learn more about what you do and don't like that way.


----------



## gadgetgod

Upgrading the tubes today <3

Switching from ECC82 to Brimar 12AU7 CV4003.


----------



## Junkwisch

I just got my HA 1A mk2 around 3 days ago. I am pleased with the amp so far (my first tube). Although I have quite a bit of hum and hiss problem. The hum and hiss appeared to be loudest at 600 ohm setting. On 600 ohm setting, i can hear the hum (small one) even when the volume is off.

My connection is PC ---> Topping D10 (USB) --> HA 1A mk2 --> T1 2nd Gen

All of them use the same powerboard, although the PC is connected to the power board via the PSU. My previous dac/amp is audio gd 11.38, I do not get any humming or hissing noise there. 

Can anyone assists me with getting rid of the humming and hissing noise? (I am not sure what could be the cause of the noise)

P.S. I ordered group loop isolator whoch should arrive sometime next week. Hopefully, it can help reduce the noise.


----------



## pwspwsa

Hey guys, I'm a bit confused with ordering PSVANE EL84 pair of tubes.I found: EL84-S, EL84TII T series MARK II. Which one is suitable for 1AMK2? Should I look for EL84  exactly (without -s or mk2)?
Has anybody compared PSVANE EL84 with EL84 Genalex Gold Lion? Which one is better?


----------



## Twizzleshnizzle (Aug 16, 2021)

Has anyone else had issues with LEDs failing (under the tubes)?  My unit is only a couple of months old and one of the LEDs has gone out already, I suspect the soldering as it occasionally comes back on then goes back out.

My old laptop graphics card used to have micro-fractures in the solder.  A quick oven bake of the card itself would fix it for another few months, but I can't put the Cayin in the oven.  My hands really aren't up to the task of soldering either, far too unsteady.  I think I'll have to call the supplier and sort it on warranty.


----------



## Twizzleshnizzle

Taz777 said:


> Is anyone using low-impedance planar headphones with this amp? I'm looking for a valve amp for my Audexe LCD-X which are just 20 Ohms impedance.
> 
> On a separate note, the size of the Cayin HA-1A MK2 seems quite substantial. Is it bigger than you thought it would be?
> 
> Finally, is it worth getting the tube upgrade from the shop or tube rolling yourself? For example, the retailer can do stock EL84 --> PS Vane EL84T Mk2 and stock 12AU7 --> Golden Dragon 12AU7 and this bumps up the price quite a bit. However, I've seen from a tube supplier the following recommendations: stock EL82 --> Sovtek and stock 12AU7 --> JJ ECC82 and buying those separately is a little cheaper.


I've used the Audeze LCD-GX with mine.  Worked great.  I have them on right now using them together.

I felt the HA-1A was smaller than I thought it would be.  It's tall but not very wide.  My Darkvoice takes up more desk real estate than the Cayin (as you can see in the pic).

Your call on the tubes.  The stock are just fine.  Probably worth upgrading the tubes if you want the best out of the amp.  If you're already spending that much, why not spend just that bit more.


----------



## 1-MiC

gadgetgod said:


> Upgrading the tubes today <3
> 
> Switching from ECC82 to Brimar 12AU7 CV4003.



How do you like it so far? I'm running that tube in my pendant, but I'm considering downsizing to the Cayin


----------



## gadgetgod

1-MiC said:


> How do you like it so far? I'm running that tube in my pendant, but I'm considering downsizing to the Cayin


I am liking it. The background is cleaner, detailing is better. Staging i feel is also a bit wider with the Brimar. It feels like a great upgrade over the stock tubes


----------



## Junkwisch

Junkwisch said:


> I just got my HA 1A mk2 around 3 days ago. I am pleased with the amp so far (my first tube). Although I have quite a bit of hum and hiss problem. The hum and hiss appeared to be loudest at 600 ohm setting. On 600 ohm setting, i can hear the hum (small one) even when the volume is off.
> 
> My connection is PC ---> Topping D10 (USB) --> HA 1A mk2 --> T1 2nd Gen
> 
> ...




Ground loop isolator fixed the noise problem. Cayin HA1A is a very nice amp


----------



## c3po

Low impedance headphones give hiss.
valve amps can never be totally silent for several reasons mostly to do with temp changes affecting valves.
My Cayin with the stock valves was noisy, cleaning the contacts with Deoxit gold helped but what really helped was new Valves. I used PSVanes.

if you use high impedance headphones they will be quieter as the noise isn’t powerful enough to activate the headphones.


----------



## gadgetgod

c3po said:


> Low impedance headphones give hiss.
> valve amps can never be totally silent for several reasons mostly to do with temp changes affecting valves.
> My Cayin with the stock valves was noisy, cleaning the contacts with Deoxit gold helped but what really helped was new Valves. I used PSVanes.
> 
> if you use high impedance headphones they will be quieter as the noise isn’t powerful enough to activate the headphones.


Try upgrading the stock ECC82 tubes. I switched them with Brimar 12AU7. No noticeable hiss even with low impedance Sundara now.


----------



## martas38

Hi, is it possible to disconnect and change the headphones when the amplifier is turned on? Can't damage occur if I unplug the headphones during operation?


----------



## Lohb

No issues for me . I often test the 2 different headphone ports character for synergy with cans when its on.


----------



## c3po

martas38 said:


> Hi, is it possible to disconnect and change the headphones when the amplifier is turned on? Can't damage occur if I unplug the headphones during operation?


Hi.
Standard practice is just turn Volume down and change headphones over (its also Better Keeping Valve Amp for increased stability of sound).
There are only a few Amps where powering off is recommended, if using Jack connections e.g. SPL Phonitor 2. 
Hope this helps.


----------



## Junkwisch

Guys, I just noticed this past few days. The tubes in my Cayin do not shine as brightly as one another. V3 and V5 appeared to be dim, there are some light, but not as bright as the other three. Is there something wrong with my amplifier or it is normal.


----------



## c3po

Junkwisch said:


> Guys, I just noticed this past few days. The tubes in my Cayin do not shine as brightly as one another. V3 and V5 appeared to be dim, there are some light, but not as bright as the other three. Is there something wrong with my amplifier or it is normal.


Hi a lot of the light is actually coming from decorative leds under the valves to enhance the ‘glow’. I have one led that’s completely off and other folks have mentioned faulty leds after a while.
For this decorative Led failing issue there will be no Sonic effect.


----------



## Junkwisch

c3po said:


> Hi a lot of the light is actually coming from decorative leds under the valves to enhance the ‘glow’. I have one led that’s completely off and other folks have mentioned faulty leds after a while.
> For this decorative Led failing issue there will be no Sonic effect.


Thanks for the answer c3po, it will surely gives me a good night sleep.


----------



## Andykong

martas38 said:


> Hi, is it possible to disconnect and change the headphones when the amplifier is turned on? Can't damage occur if I unplug the headphones during operation?





c3po said:


> Hi.
> Standard practice is just turn Volume down and change headphones over (its also Better Keeping Valve Amp for increased stability of sound).
> There are only a few Amps where powering off is recommended, if using Jack connections e.g. SPL Phonitor 2.
> Hope this helps.



Thanks C3po for the prompt answer.   On top of turning down the volume to zero before changing your headphone, it is important to insert the headphone jack firmly into the socket.  Don't hesitate and stop in the middle.  The socket is around 3cm long and if you stop at 2cm and leave 1cm uninserted, there is a risk that the right channel signal will overlap with the ground signal and caused serious interference or short circuit.


----------



## Andykong

Junkwisch said:


> Guys, I just noticed this past few days. The tubes in my Cayin do not shine as brightly as one another. V3 and V5 appeared to be dim, there are some light, but not as bright as the other three. Is there something wrong with my amplifier or it is normal.


C3po is right, it can be a bad LED connection.  

On the other hand, Cayin, as an experienced vacuum tube amplifier manufacturer, have developed a list of test to examine the condition of a vacuum tube before we used it in our amplifier. We are quite sure our QA list is very effective given we are using hundred thousands of tubes per year, but brightness of a vacuum tube is not one of the test items. The filament must be light up and visually recognisable, but we don't need to evaluate the brightness of filament even with matched pair design.  So if this happen with a new amplifier, even when one vacuum tube is not as bright as the other, it is not necessarily a problem as long as it function properly.  However if you are using NOS tube or the amplifier has been used for a long time, then brightness can be an indicator of a aged tube.


----------



## No Disc

@Andykong  I was told from my local mainland China dealer that this model is most likely no longer being made due to parts shortages.   Is this true?  I was all ready to buy this one as my entrance into the Cayin world, and now it seems like I cannot get one.    Whats your take on the situation?


----------



## No Disc

@Andykong  Thanks for your suggestion. The China Cayin representative did get back to me and let me know they are in production again and will be shipping in a few weeks, but only the export version, however it seems they would allow me to order direct from them.  My local dealer cannot get it (export version) so I will have to order direct from Cayin for this model.  The HA6A my dealer can still get it, so I will go through him to order.   Yes, I will probably order both as I have more than one room I want to have listening in.


----------



## Andykong

No Disc said:


> @Andykong  Thanks for your suggestion. The China Cayin representative did get back to me and let me know they are in production again and will be shipping in a few weeks, but only the export version, however it seems they would allow me to order direct from them.  My local dealer cannot get it (export version) so I will have to order direct from Cayin for this model.  The HA6A my dealer can still get it, so I will go through him to order.   Yes, I will probably order both as I have more than one room I want to have listening in.



Glad you have both sorted out.  Buying two different Cayin tube amplifiers at the same time is definitely true love, we are flattered.   

If we include both speaker based and headphone based amplifier, we have around 40 different amplifiers (pre, power and integrated)  in our CURRENT product line.  If you missed one production lot and need to wait for next round of production, it will take a while before we rotate to that model again.


----------



## No Disc

Andykong said:


> Glad you have both sorted out.  Buying two different Cayin tube amplifiers at the same time is definitely true love, we are flattered.
> 
> If we include both speaker based and headphone based amplifier, we have around 40 different amplifiers (pre, power and integrated)  in our CURRENT product line.  If you missed one production lot and need to wait for next round of production, it will take a while before we rotate to that model again.


As it turns out my amp buying journey is not yet complete, I am also looking at the integrated models for my 2-Channel setup.  I am probably going to end up with the *DALI* *MENUET* SE and will need a good amp to drive them.  If you know of anyone who has paired a Cayin with those, let me know.


----------



## No Disc

Andykong said:


> Glad you have both sorted out.  Buying two different Cayin tube amplifiers at the same time is definitely true love, we are flattered.
> 
> If we include both speaker based and headphone based amplifier, we have around 40 different amplifiers (pre, power and integrated)  in our CURRENT product line.  If you missed one production lot and need to wait for next round of production, it will take a while before we rotate to that model again.


John @ Cayin did mention that if we don't get a unit from this batch, the next batch for the Chinese market will be at the end of the year, so we will be placing our order this Friday so we can get one.


----------



## pwspwsa

No Disc said:


> As it turns out my amp buying journey is not yet complete, I am also looking at the integrated models for my 2-Channel setup.  I am probably going to end up with the *DALI* *MENUET* SE and will need a good amp to drive them.  If you know of anyone who has paired a Cayin with those, let me know.


What kind of music do you listen to?Sometimes I pair my ha1a mk2 with Yamaha 1000 + Dali mentor menuet. It sounds amazing. But if you listen hard rock genres take a look at another speakers. IMO


----------



## No Disc

pwspwsa said:


> What kind of music do you listen to?Sometimes I pair my ha1a mk2 with Yamaha 1000 + Dali mentor menuet. It sounds amazing. But if you listen hard rock genres take a look at another speakers. IMO


Jazz, Classical, New Age, Blues, Vocals, Some Chamber music, no hard rock.


----------



## Andykong

pwspwsa said:


> What kind of music do you listen to?Sometimes I pair my ha1a mk2 with Yamaha 1000 + Dali mentor menuet. It sounds amazing. But if you listen hard rock genres take a look at another speakers. IMO



The little Dali is a very refined speaker, Hard rock will probably push it too hard.  If you were to consider keeping the Dali and change the amplifier instead, consider a Cayin CS55A vs CS88A, you can use the amplifier at Triode mode for most genre, and use Ultralinear for Hard Rock, that will offer an extra push to your Dali Menuet when needed.


----------



## pwspwsa

No Disc said:


> Jazz, Classical, New Age, Blues, Vocals, Some Chamber music, no hard rock.


I like the same genres. My suggestion is Yamaha as1000-1200 (no ad, just IMO) for these speakers. I use cayin HA-1a mk2 as preamp.  Tubes for coloring, and transistor for amplification, it reveals the soul of the music.


----------



## No Disc

Does the HA-1A noise issue still exist for low impedance headphones? Some of my new found favorite headphones are low impedance.


----------



## Twizzleshnizzle

No Disc said:


> Does the HA-1A noise issue still exist for low impedance headphones? Some of my new found favorite headphones are low impedance.


It exists for all impedance headphones on mine, but it’s pretty low. I haven’t heard a tube amp yet that doesn’t exhibit some slight hum/hiss


----------



## No Disc

Placed order with John today and according to him, they will ship this Saturday.  I think Cayin is only one province over from us (Guangdong), so should be here 1-3 days. Looking forward to my first Cayin product.  Now I need some options for a DAP.


----------



## WaveTheory

I have a new YouTube channel where I'm doing reviews! The 1AMK2 is one of the earliest:



Enjoy!


----------



## No Disc

WaveTheory said:


> I have a new YouTube channel where I'm doing reviews! The 1AMK2 is one of the earliest:
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy!



Enjoyed your review.   You mentioned it was heavy several times.  Some might interpret that is a bad thing?  Heavy and oversized transformers from that I have seen, are usually an indicator of a robust design.  I had two competing brands of Tube Monoblocks, the one with the heavier transformers had more grunt and meat on the bones sound presentation.  Although I didn't like the idea of moving the heavier monoblocks around, as the lighter ones were more easier to carry, in the end, I ended up selling the lighter ones because other heavier ones just sounded better.

If you review the other Cayin headphone amps, they will be even heavier.  20kg and 30kg.  I think you won't be picking those up with one arm.


----------



## No Disc

New Cayin in the house.   Smaller and heavier than I expected.  Well packed, and all professional appearance.    Setup and ready to go for its initial listening session.


----------



## No Disc

@Andykong What kind of break in can I expect with this unit?


----------



## gazzington

Does this amp do well with dynamic headphones and planars?


----------



## WaveTheory (Sep 24, 2021)

No Disc said:


> Enjoyed your review.   You mentioned it was heavy several times.  Some might interpret that is a bad thing?



Thanks! Only bad for the review format, lol. I agree that in general weight is often a good sign for amps.


----------



## c3po

gazzington said:


> Does this amp do well with dynamic headphones and planars?


Should do because you can select different headphone impedance;
0-32
32-64
65-150
151-300
600



WaveTheory said:


> Thanks! Only bad for they review format, lol. I agree that in general weight is often a good sign for amps.


----------



## makan

gazzington said:


> Does this amp do well with dynamic headphones and planars?


I am using my diana phi with it as we speak and works very well


----------



## WaveTheory

gazzington said:


> Does this amp do well with dynamic headphones and planars?


As with most things in audio, it depends. I find Hi-Z dynamics consistently sound good. Harder-to-drive planars (either above 60 ohms or low-sensivity... Think around 90db/mw or lower) are more likely to work well than a low-Z and high efficiency planar. Low-Z dynamics are also hit and miss. Even with the output impedance selector switch, the output impedance of the 1Amk2 is never going to be as low as that on a well designed solid state amp. That higher output impedance has audible effects on low-Z dynamics. Will you like the effect? Totally up to you. In general I find the bass gets sloppy and bloated on most low-Z dynamics and the overall presentation becomes over-smoothed. But, nothing stops you from liking that so ymmv.


----------



## Bkido

gazzington said:


> Does this amp do well with dynamic headphones and planars?



For planars I'm using the Cayin with my Hifiman Arya and they are a match made in heaven I think. Never heard them with so much punch and dynamic sounding with spectacular 3D imaging and space. Since they are not very efficient noise in no problem with them.
For dynamics I'm using it with my ZMF Vérité Closed and Aeolus - both with 300 Ohms. They suffer a bit from an audible noise floor when nothing is playing. I got around that with a custom made 1/4 inch to 4-pin XLR noise-adapter made by @skedra (Viking Weave cables) which helps to bring the noise floor down so it's not audible anymore and they are also performing their best out of all my Amps on the Cayin (with upgraded tubes).
The only combination that didn't work out for me for now were the Focal Celestee. They are simply too sensitive in my experience and the Noise Adapter also works better with high impedance headphones so this combination just wasn't the best. For low impedance dynamics I prefer for example my ZDT. Jr tube amp which has a lot less power but also a much lower noise floor. 

What headphones do you want to drive with the amp?


----------



## Lohb (Oct 7, 2021)

1A going excellently with Hugo 2 right now...really special pairing...pricey to use it as a DAC..but I use it transportable DAC/Amp mode elsewhere...With PSVane pre/amp it does not alter the presentation radically, just brings more holography and body/silky veneer to the mix.

It also sits on the back top part of the amp, and does not get hot with all that venting going on in the front area surprisingly.


Best desktop dac/amp combo I have heard to date - 8 years in this game. BOOM !


----------



## martas38

Lohb said:


> 1A going excellently with Hugo 2 right now...really special pairing...pricey to use it as a DAC..but I use it transportable DAC/Amp mode elsewhere...With PSVane pre/amp it does not alter the presentation radically, just brings more holography and body/silky veneer to the mix.
> 
> It also sits on the back top part of the amp, and does not get hot with all that venting going on in the front area surprisingly.
> 
> ...


Your preamplifier and amplifier lamps only PSVane? I like warm tube sound, what would you recommend for a preamp? I'll get Cayin in a few days. My headphones are Audeze LCD-X.


----------



## Lohb

Gold Lions would maybe suit you...warmer and still better than stock tubes IMO.

I'm not familiar with testing any brands beyond stock ones/PsVane/Gold Lions


----------



## Lohb

Going to hook together a solder-less solid core RCA from Hugo2 to Cayin and try it out...from memory buying another coiled solid core brands years back (looked like a very oldschool landline cable) 
I just felt it was noticeable in how it affected the sound vs multi-strand cabling...like a haze/veil was removed and further image improvement..if its purely imagination..fair enough..cheap trick !


----------



## Lohb (Oct 8, 2021)

Anyone using different tubes to stock ones/PsVane/Gold Lions that they feel is particularly amazing with HA-1 ?
I'll be avoiding the vintage ones though..too pricey some of them.

@WaveTheory are you using stock tubes ? While I see what you are saying about low Z cans and my Flux Lab FA-10 did have a tighter low-end it does not come across as flabby on the tube with PsVane on pre and amp section, more filled out is what I would say....I guess my set-up is at the borderline for what you were experiencing and I know its best to have a hybrid tube for planars to really control that low-end strictly.

Edit : Yes, am hearing that farty low bass with Sundaras which I have not tried on this amp extensively.

Guess I could use Ha-1 pre into a flux amp but pricey on that combo...the Flux lab amps kind of sound like a very transparent tube amp but they have a brickwall on volume increases due to their volume pot incline...you go form medium volume to super loud over the tiniest of dial after 1pm on the pot..is why I reverted to HA-1.
Also Audio-gd Master 19 cannot compete with the Ha-1 IMO, it lacks the dynamics Ha-1 has - strangely...that amp is loaded to the gills with components...but it all added up to just an 'OK' nothing stand-out kind of sound IMO.

I'm guessing the difference in sound on the HA-1 two 6.3" volume ports is a difference in voltage.
The left has a very dynamic mids focused/saturated SQ and the right port is more balanced on focus and less dynamic at matched volume...but it does get dynamic once cranked higher than left port...anyone else got an idea on how the two 6.3" ports sound different ?


----------



## Lohb (Oct 8, 2021)

martas38 said:


> Your preamplifier and amplifier lamps only PSVane? I like warm tube sound, what would you recommend for a preamp? I'll get Cayin in a few days. My headphones are Audeze LCD-X.


The old X and new X are quite different...I own both..they are either undershooting on 4k or overshooting IMO.
The old one is darker and relatively mellower, and the new one I find fatiguing after a while - in that the upper mids and lower treble are too forward....I wish Audeze had put the upper mids/lower treble between old and new FR plots..that would have been perfect IMO.

I have a modified pair of Monorprice M565C that sound more balanced than the Audeze cans..they just go so well with the Cayin..those cans were a real sleeper set and I think they got dismissed because previous M565 were awful...they are as good or better than Aeon 2C in all areas except absolute imaging in the male vocal region....dirt cheap planars.


----------



## WillieB

Lohb said:


> Anyone using different tubes to stock ones/PsVane/Gold Lions that they feel is particularly amazing with HA-1 ?
> I'll be avoiding the vintage ones though..too pricey some of them.
> 
> @WaveTheory are you using stock tubes ? While I see what you are saying about low Z cans and my Flux Lab FA-10 did have a tighter low-end it does not come across as flabby on the tube with PsVane on pre and amp section, more filled out is what I would say....I guess my set-up is at the borderline for what you were experiencing and I know its best to have a hybrid tube for planars to really control that low-end strictly.
> ...


 
I'm new to the thread, but I've had an HA-1A mkii for a while now. I have collected a variety of tubes. Mostly European. I have a couple varieties of Tungsram driver tubes that I really like. They are very tight and controlled down low. I also have some Brimar drivers. They are great with tone/timbre, but not as special as one might think in other areas. I think the gain on them is a little lower than other typical 12au7 so that is noticed more when using the HA-1A as a preamp. I have Gold Lions for driver and power positions that I don't really care for. I guess mostly because they just lack the luster of tubes. They are quiet and well made tubes, but with GLs in both positions, it's almost like solid state, so what's the point? I haven't mixed and matched too much with them since I've had so much enjoyment out of the NOS tubes. For EL-84s I have some Polam tubes that I picked up. They are getting hard to find, but I think the ones that I found were late production and actually made by or on Tungsram tooling(not sure). They have the tags inside and everything. I wasn't aware of this when I ordered them. They are excellent though. Good solid power down low. I also have the Ei branded Tungsram that they still have for sale on Upscale. They are great tubes, but there are plenty of options for less money that perform as good or better. I got mine a while ago. I think my favorite EL84 so far, are a set of 1960s Funkwerk RFT. They are kind of new, but I listened to them a lot in this first few days with the amp on for over 10 hours a day. I think they have had plenty of time to settle in. I am using them with a set of 1980 Tungsram drivers out front. This is my favorite combo so far, no contest. I'll have to wait and see how this holds up over time. This amp responds greatly to tube rolling so there are a ton of options out there, but I can tell you that what people always preach about (Mullard, Amperex/Bugle Boy, Brimar, etc...) are NOT necessarily the best in this amplifier so you have to keep an open mind. Of course, it's all a matter of preference!


----------



## Junkwisch

Bkido said:


> For planars I'm using the Cayin with my Hifiman Arya and they are a match made in heaven I think. Never heard them with so much punch and dynamic sounding with spectacular 3D imaging and space. Since they are not very efficient noise in no problem with them.
> For dynamics I'm using it with my ZMF Vérité Closed and Aeolus - both with 300 Ohms. They suffer a bit from an audible noise floor when nothing is playing. I got around that with a custom made 1/4 inch to 4-pin XLR noise-adapter made by @skedra (Viking Weave cables) which helps to bring the noise floor down so it's not audible anymore and they are also performing their best out of all my Amps on the Cayin (with upgraded tubes).
> The only combination that didn't work out for me for now were the Focal Celestee. They are simply too sensitive in my experience and the Noise Adapter also works better with high impedance headphones so this combination just wasn't the best. For low impedance dynamics I prefer for example my ZDT. Jr tube amp which has a lot less power but also a much lower noise floor.
> 
> What headphones do you want to drive with the amp?



I borrow my father's old Hifi-man He-6 and surprisingly, the HA1A mk2 actually powered that headphone pretty well; definitely better than my T1 gen 2 in some genre. On my old (now burned, literally burned) Audiogd 11.38, HE6 is way inferior to T1.


----------



## Lohb

Yes, it is going to lift up the old heavy weight planars mostly and drive them well....LCD-2.1/HE-6
I have been lucky with 2 other cans that are easy to drive - being above the bass bloat effect..sundara though...I can hear it a mile away now..."rasp..rasp..rasp" and Sundara is harder to drive than the other 2 planars...so its a real X-factor on what is going on.


----------



## Lohb

Anyone had headtime with LCD-4z and Cayin...synergy and bass control OK for your ears ?
Another low z planar.....


----------



## muths66

Sound is great with my hiby rs6.


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## No Disc

Right now my HA-1A MK2 is pulling double duty as a headphone amp, and a pre-amp for my dedicated two channel near-field listening room.   My headphone listening place is currently under construction, so the HA-1A MK2 will probably be relocated after that is finished.   The Cayin sound pretty good as a pre-amp to my active speakers.  Both being run though a new Dusun X600 Power regenerator.


----------



## Andykong

muths66 said:


> Sound is great with my hiby rs6.



R2R + vacuum tube, that must be a real treat.


----------



## Twizzleshnizzle

I did post before, but just checking again.  Anyone had any of their LED's go out under the tubes?


----------



## Lubak

Twizzleshnizzle said:


> I did post before, but just checking again.  Anyone had any of their LED's go out under the tubes?


Yep, two of mine went off about a couple of weeks ago - the right EL84 and the rectifier. Can't say it affected the sound in any way though. 
Tbh I never was a big fan of the whole LED light thing, so if they could all go, that'd be best lol


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## Twizzleshnizzle

Lubak said:


> Yep, two of mine went off about a couple of weeks ago - the right EL84 and the rectifier. Can't say it affected the sound in any way though.
> Tbh I never was a big fan of the whole LED light thing, so if they could all go, that'd be best lol


Yeah completely cosmetic, they do seem a bit delicate.  I'm tempted to take it apart and solder the one that failed (it's intermittent so solder fractures I think).  I worry about the resale value otherwise.


----------



## Twizzleshnizzle

Another quick question, has anyone tried replacing the 12DT5 tube, I wonder if that might be the culprit of some of the background noise?


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## Lubak

I guess I was too quick to say it was all good 😅
Although I doubt my problem has anything to do with the failing LED's - I started the amp tonight after about a week since last listening session and I found a loud humming noise, not like the hissing high noise floor I used to have (and fixed by grounding the preamp RCA outs) but rather like the humming of a high voltage wire. I switched it off and when I started it back in about 30 min I had my headphones plugged in - so what happens is it produces a suuuper loud hum upon power on, like an electric motor, it's crazy, and then after a while it subsides. I guess it used to do that in the past but it subsided to inaudible levels. I mean the amp was super quiet for a while there. I guess not anymore though 😭


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## No Disc

Andykong said:


> The little Dali is a very refined speaker, Hard rock will probably push it too hard.  If you were to consider keeping the Dali and change the amplifier instead, consider a Cayin CS55A vs CS88A, you can use the amplifier at Triode mode for most genre, and use Ultralinear for Hard Rock, that will offer an extra push to your Dali Menuet when needed.



I was thinking the Cayin A-88T MK2 reference, is the same as the CS88A?  I don't listen to Rock, but I do listen to Classical Symphonic.  You think this would drive the Dali okay.  It's a small near-field setup, you seen the photo a few days ago.  So I think this would be enough considering small room, and near-field.   You agree?


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## Twizzleshnizzle

Deleted


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## Andykong (Oct 29, 2021)

No Disc said:


> I was thinking the Cayin A-88T MK2 reference, is the same as the CS88A?  I don't listen to Rock, but I do listen to Classical Symphonic.  You think this would drive the Dali okay.  It's a small near-field setup, you seen the photo a few days ago.  So I think this would be enough considering small room, and near-field.   You agree?



A88 is our evergreen tree, it is a big product family, has many versions and span over 15+ years.  I didn't cover speaker based amplifier so I am not familiar with the different between different version, your dealer probably is a better source for that.  The CS88A should work fine with Dali mentor menuet even in mid-field 2 meters setup, so I am not too worry if you are having everything in a near field setup.


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## Junkwisch

Hi Guys, I have been having some problem with my Cayin HA-1A Mk2. I got a feeling that there might be something wrong with the 'input AUX R' occasionally there is a lot of noise and sometime the sound just get disconnected. I thought it was my 'ground loop isolator' at first, so I ordered a new one and the same problem persist. I switch to direct connection between my phone and the amp, and surprisingly to me it happened again. So I switch my cable (red to black, and black to red), and it is the same 'right headphone' that have this problem. It doesn't happen all the time, sometime it seems to work fine and then a few minutes later the sound got cut off (if not cut off, there is a lot of noises), it will usually fixed itself after a few minutes then the cycle repeat. Anyone has any ideas how to fix this problem?


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## WaveTheory

Junkwisch said:


> Hi Guys, I have been having some problem with my Cayin HA-1A Mk2. I got a feeling that there might be something wrong with the 'input AUX R' occasionally there is a lot of noise and sometime the sound just get disconnected. I thought it was my 'ground loop isolator' at first, so I ordered a new one and the same problem persist. I switch to direct connection between my phone and the amp, and surprisingly to me it happened again. So I switch my cable (red to black, and black to red), and it is the same 'right headphone' that have this problem. It doesn't happen all the time, sometime it seems to work fine and then a few minutes later the sound got cut off (if not cut off, there is a lot of noises), it will usually fixed itself after a few minutes then the cycle repeat. Anyone has any ideas how to fix this problem?



Is it just the Aux input, or does it happen with the "CD" input too?


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## SolidSlug

Andykong said:


> Thanks C3po for the prompt answer.   On top of turning down the volume to zero before changing your headphone, it is important to insert the headphone jack firmly into the socket.  Don't hesitate and stop in the middle.  The socket is around 3cm long and if you stop at 2cm and leave 1cm uninserted, there is a risk that the right channel signal will overlap with the ground signal and caused serious interference or short circuit.



I can report the same thing on my HA-1A. One of the LEDs under one of the tubes turns off after a few minutes of the unit being powered on.
It's not tube-related.

The amp otherwise sounds fine. There is a definite noise floor, but not out of the ordinary for a tube amp.

I also have a low flutter noise in the left channel, it's obvious when no music is playing and can be heard during quiet tracks with some headphones.
It's not tube-related either.


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## Junkwisch

WaveTheory said:


> Is it just the Aux input, or does it happen with the "CD" input too?


Hi,

So I was running around looking for CD player which I don't have, a few google search enlighten me that I don't have to do that. So far, around 10 minutes, I have no problem with CD input at all, the headphones are working fine without any noise. I will be testing it a lot more tonight.


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## martas38

I'm the new happy Cayin HA-1A user. I must say that with Audeze LCD-X excellent pairing. No hum or hiss. The sound is absolutely excellent!


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## Junkwisch

Junkwisch said:


> Hi,
> 
> So I was running around looking for CD player which I don't have, a few google search enlighten me that I don't have to do that. So far, around 10 minutes, I have no problem with CD input at all, the headphones are working fine without any noise. I will be testing it a lot more tonight.


Yeah, pretty much I have no idea what happened to my AMP. I switch back to AUX, and it seems to be working fine without any problem....


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## vlach

Out of curiosity, are the front knobs metal or plastic?


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## martas38

vlach said:


> Out of curiosity, are the front knobs metal or plastic?


Aluminium.


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## petek

Have had several headphones over the years and I will say I've liked them no where near as well as listening in my near field set up.  This could be the lack of ever having tried a dedicated head phone amp.  I have my eyes on either some Kennington or LSA HP Ultra 2 phones.  2 questions:  1)  I am out of outputs on my McIntosh C2500 pre...however I do use a reel to reel and a cassette deck and have a Niles 3 deck switching box.  Is it possible to take the out from say channel out 3 and use that as the source (Aux) in this Cayin?  and 2)  would the Cayin mate well to one of these 33  ohm impedance, 116 dB sensitivity phones---or would perhaps I be better served with the LSA Hyperdrive 2 headphone amp that is just recently released?


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## Andykong

Can you please verify the sensitivity rating again?  There are two frequently used sensitivity measurements, dB/V SPL vs dB/mW, the later is more common in recent years, but some manufactures use dB/V instead.


33ohm 116dB/mW is very high sensitive for full size headphone, you probably will pick up some background noise if you use a tube amplifier like HA-1Amk2.

33ohm 116dB/V is equivalent to 101.2 db/mW, that is a fairly easy load, the HA1Amk2 should handle it very well.


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## petek

Walter of LSA does not cite it, but essentially it is the same headphone as the Kennerton Gjallarhorn.


Andykong said:


> .....
> 
> Can you please verify the sensitivity rating again?  There are two frequently used sensitivity measurements, dB/V SPL vs dB/mW, the later is more common in recent years, but some manufactures use dB/V instead.
> 
> ...


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## dpump

Is it ok to use 12BH7 or E80CC/6085 in place of the 12AU7?


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## PeteJ

Hi everyone. I have recently purchased Cayin HA-1A MK2 and so far I am happy with it.

I was thinking about trying "upgraded" power supply cable, something like this with hope it would lower the noise floor.
Has anyone tried something similar and did it help at all ?


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## martas38

PeteJ said:


> Hi everyone. I have recently purchased Cayin HA-1A MK2 and so far I am happy with it.
> 
> I was thinking about trying "upgraded" power supply cable, something like this with hope it would lower the noise floor.
> Has anyone tried something similar and did it help at all ?


Hi, if there is a hiss, there will be a problem in the grounding loop of the electricity. Try connecting the amplifier, DAC, PC to the same electrical socket. My Cayin does not hiss with LCD-X. Then try replacing the EL84 with a PSVane or Tung-Sol tube.


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## dpump (Dec 2, 2021)

Second request for info. Is it okay to use 12BH7 and E80CC/6085 in place of the12AU7?


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## PeteJ

@martas38 thanks for comment... I do not experience hiss acctually, its just a humming noise which is not terrible but audible when no music is playing or in a quiet parts of the songs. I am new to tubes and my understnding is... its normal, especially at this price point. I was told upgrading the power cord to the "audiophile" grade would lower down the humming noise but not sure if this is something worth trying bearing in mind price of this amp.


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## martas38

I think it's a ground loop. 
Try connecting everything to one electrical wall socket and using a hub. 
It also helps to disconnect the ground, but it is not safe.
I am sorry for my english.


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## muths66

Now trying to burn in my serial and tube. But there's some static sound for certain iems.


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## Chodi

I received my new Cayin HA-1A MK2 2 days ago. I have other tube amps and several headphones. I have read various comments about hiss/hum and compatibility with various headphones. Since I have other tube amps as well as some very expensive solid state (Auralic Taurus) I feel I have a reasonable basis for comparison. I have no hiss or hum issues with any headphone I have tried on this amp. In fact, the background is as black as any other amp I have. I saw someone here comment about Sundara with this amp I can only say I have never heard my Sundara sound this good. I also saw a comment about AKG712 headphones and all I can say is that they perform very well on my sample of Cayin HA-1A MK2 although they can sound better on some other amps. On to a comment about Beyer T1.2 that I read on here. I find it a fantastic match with my Cayin HA-1A MK2. I am using a Denafrips R2R dac as the source and I have HQplayer software on my computer to play all my music. 

On the whole I posted these comments just to point out that there is someone out there who thinks this amp is a steal. Perhaps not the equal of some $2000 alternatives but when you consider the price and the esthetics (very beautiful product design) I think this amp deserves far more attention than it gets. I would point out that mine came with JJ tubes in the 12au7 position which I guess was a change/improvement stock part. As low cost new production tubes go they are very respectable. I have some NOS tubes on the way to try but the supplied tubes are really not bad. Not the equal of what I expect in 1950-1970 NOS tubes of certain vintage but still quiet respectable for anyone who does not want to play with tube rolling the supplied set is nice. 

So how does my new Cayin HA-1A MK2 sound. After only two days and experiment with several of my headphones I can safely say it sounds fantastic. Not as romantic as my OTL amp and far from the sound of my solid state amps but that is why I love tubes. This amp also scales very well depending on your source. Very beautiful product I am a totally satisfied customer.


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## Andykong (Dec 13, 2021)

dpump said:


> Is it ok to use 12BH7 or E80CC/6085 in place of the 12AU7?



Technically yes, but on the risk of higher noise level when you increase the gain ratio or current passing through filament, and E80CC is a typical example of that.  please consult your vacuum tube supplier whether this will affect your sound system.


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## gadgetgod

This combo is heavenly <3


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## samtheman

Hi everyone! I'm reposting this here as the old Cayin HA-1A MK1 is very old:

My little dott MKIII died recently and I replaced it with the Ha-1A MK1. I have a fair few tubes from my little dott amp (some rather expensive by my standards) and I'm wondering if any of them can be used with the Caylin?

Here are some of the best ones:

4 x Seimens C3g tubes with C3g to 6ak5/6J1 adaptors
8 x 6sn7  Sylvania GTA tubes with 6sn7 to ecc88/6dj8 adaptors
2 x GE 12sn7 gta tubes
2 x 6h30n-eb sovtek tubes
2 x 6c19n-b russian tubes with rocket logo
2 x XII-78 russian tubes
2 x cv4014 tubes
loads of various gb5654 tubes including gold brand sylvanias

Am I out of luck? Really hoping some can be used - particularly those C3g/ tubes which were end game tubes for the little dott 

I've read the whole thread and found nothing - but I'm a little lost with tube names etc.

If anyone can help, I'd be realy gratefull.
Sam


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## martas38 (Jun 16, 2022)

samtheman said:


> Hi everyone! I'm reposting this here as the old Cayin HA-1A MK1 is very old:
> 
> My little dott MKIII died recently and I replaced it with the Ha-1A MK1. I have a fair few tubes from my little dott amp (some rather expensive by my standards) and I'm wondering if any of them can be used with the Caylin?
> 
> ...


In front of the tubes marked as 12AU7, EC82, ECC82 or 6189.
On the power tubes EL84 or 6BQ5.
Do not use any others!
This applies to mk2.


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## samtheman

Thanks for the reply, Martas38. So are you saying that none of my tubes are appropriate for the mk1?


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## Bkido

samtheman said:


> Hi everyone! I'm reposting this here as the old Cayin HA-1A MK1 is very old:
> 
> My little dott MKIII died recently and I replaced it with the Ha-1A MK1. I have a fair few tubes from my little dott amp (some rather expensive by my standards) and I'm wondering if any of them can be used with the Caylin?
> 
> ...


Hey the MK1 uses the following tube types: 2x EL84 (6N14), 1x 12AX7, 1x 12AU7

I'm afraid that none of your current tubes will work in the Cayin. Also not adapted. Especially because of the space constraints. 
Maybe try to find someone who might be interested in your Little Dot tube rolling kit and fund some new tubes for the Cayin with it.


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## samtheman

Thanks, Bkido.

Ah well - at least I know the situation. I think I'll hold on to them for now. Could be usefull in the future.


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## MacMan31

Twizzleshnizzle said:


> I've used the Audeze LCD-GX with mine.  Worked great.  I have them on right now using them together.
> 
> I felt the HA-1A was smaller than I thought it would be.  It's tall but not very wide.  My Darkvoice takes up more desk real estate than the Cayin (as you can see in the pic).
> 
> Your call on the tubes.  The stock are just fine.  Probably worth upgrading the tubes if you want the best out of the amp.  If you're already spending that much, why not spend just that bit more.



How does the Cayin HA-1A compare to the Feliks Audio Echo MKII (which I have as well)?


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## Twizzleshnizzle (Jul 1, 2022)

MacMan31 said:


> How does the Cayin HA-1A compare to the Feliks Audio Echo MKII (which I have as well)?


I've only heard the Echo MK1.
The Echo is cleaner. They both sound great, but I experienced annoying build issues with the HA-1A.

1. Extremely annoying to tube swap due to having to remove case each time.
2. LEDs under the tubes can fail easily (seems to be a soldering issue - possibly related to the pressure from swapping tubes).
3. Suffered from electro magnetic interference. Not had this issue with any other tube amp.

If I was buying now, I'd likely choose the Feliks.


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## project86

They are pretty similar overall. Both of my examples are nice and quiet, and both are fairly warm, smooth, a bit relaxed but also engaging midrange and bloom. I feel like both amps are great and fairly competitive. 

Tube rolling really changes the character of the Cayin pretty drastically. It can become a whole different Amp based on what you choose. I haven't messed with rolling on the Echo but I can say the stock tubes are excellent. If I wanted to buy it and run stock, the Echo would be my choice. For tweaking the signature I would probably go Cayin.


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## MacMan31

Twizzleshnizzle said:


> I've only heard the Echo MK1.
> The Echo is cleaner. They both sound great, but I experienced annoying build issues with the HA-1A.
> 
> 1. Extremely annoying to tube swap due to having to remove case each time.
> ...





project86 said:


> They are pretty similar overall. Both of my examples are nice and quiet, and both are fairly warm, smooth, a bit relaxed but also engaging midrange and bloom. I feel like both amps are great and fairly competitive.
> 
> Tube rolling really changes the character of the Cayin pretty drastically. It can become a whole different Amp based on what you choose. I haven't messed with rolling on the Echo but I can say the stock tubes are excellent. If I wanted to buy it and run stock, the Echo would be my choice. For tweaking the signature I would probably go Cayin.



Thanks for the replies/comments. I can definitely see it being annoying or complicated to roll tubes on the Cayin. It's very easy on the Echo MkII. I got my Echo MkII used with some extra tubes so I have not actually tried the stock tubes.


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## Twizzleshnizzle

MacMan31 said:


> Thanks for the replies/comments. I can definitely see it being annoying or complicated to roll tubes on the Cayin. It's very easy on the Echo MkII. I got my Echo MkII used with some extra tubes so I have not actually tried the stock tubes.


You're welcome. The Cayin is still a lovely amp, but I don't think you'd gain anything by going from one to the other.


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## MacMan31

Twizzleshnizzle said:


> You're welcome. The Cayin is still a lovely amp, but I don't think you'd gain anything by going from one to the other.



Fair enough. I also have the BottleHead Crack with speedball. I had someone build it for me.


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## Twizzleshnizzle

MacMan31 said:


> Fair enough. I also have the BottleHead Crack with speedball. I had someone build it for me.


Now that's an amp I'd like to try


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## Bkido (Jul 1, 2022)

Twizzleshnizzle said:


> You're welcome. The Cayin is still a lovely amp, but I don't think you'd gain anything by going from one to the other.


Except you wanna run planars. Since the Cayin is transformer coupled and the Echo OTL the Cayin is better able to handle planar loads.


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## Andykong

Twizzleshnizzle said:


> I've only heard the Echo MK1.
> The Echo is cleaner. They both sound great, but I experienced annoying build issues with the HA-1A.
> 
> 1. Extremely annoying to tube swap due to having to remove case each time.
> ...



Let's be frank, we don't deny that the design of HA-1AMK2 has some practical issues.  We want to deliver a transformer-coupled all-tube headphone amplifier with minimum footprint and easily blend into a study desk with books and computers cramping together.  The upright form factor satisfied the foot-print requirements but we have to place the circuit board immediately above the transformers. The placement of the components also provides less shielding than other conventional tube amplifiers.  This explained point (3)  from @Twizzleshnizzle.  Overall speaking,  you need to be more cautious in setting up the HA-1AMK2 in order to achieve a silent playback.   

On the other hand, a fully covered design allows you to use the amplifier in a tight space, without worrying that you'll touch the tubes accidentally, or even placed books or assorted study accessories right next to the amplifier.  Unfortunately, that means you need to remove the case in order to perform tube rolling, as Twizzleshnizzle has stated in point (1).  If you only roll the tubes occasionally and settled with your choice of tubes for a while after rolling, this design is acceptable.  However, if you are a frequent tube roller, then this is not a good design for you.


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## MacMan31

Twizzleshnizzle said:


> Now that's an amp I'd like to try



It's a nice amp but also a very "hands on" amp given that it has to be built by the user. I just asked someone to make it for me as I don't have the space or tools to do it myself. Mine just looks like a stock build. If I were to have someone built it again I'd want a few custom stuff done. But it does sound pretty good.


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## Andykong

*HA-3A*, a new tube headphone amplifier that will fill the gap between HA-1AMK2 and HA-6A .  More information and photo next week.


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## Twizzleshnizzle

Andykong said:


> Let's be frank, we don't deny that the design of HA-1AMK2 has some practical issues.  We want to deliver a transformer-coupled all-tube headphone amplifier with minimum footprint and easily blend into a study desk with books and computers cramping together.  The upright form factor satisfied the foot-print requirements but we have to place the circuit board immediately above the transformers. The placement of the components also provides less shielding than other conventional tube amplifiers.  This explained point (3)  from @Twizzleshnizzle.  Overall speaking,  you need to be more cautious in setting up the HA-1AMK2 in order to achieve a silent playback.
> 
> On the other hand, a fully covered design allows you to use the amplifier in a tight space, without worrying that you'll touch the tubes accidentally, or even placed books or assorted study accessories right next to the amplifier.  Unfortunately, that means you need to remove the case in order to perform tube rolling, as Twizzleshnizzle has stated in point (1).  If you only roll the tubes occasionally and settled with your choice of tubes for a while after rolling, this design is acceptable.  However, if you are a frequent tube roller, then this is not a good design for you.


Fortunately I'm not a frequent tube roller,


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## Chodi

Twizzleshnizzle said:


> Fortunately I'm not a frequent tube roller,


The truely amazing thing about the HA-1AMK2 is its ability to change completely with different tubes. I don't mean some subtle change, I mean totally different sounding amp. I own three tube amps and have owned others. I have never seen such a complete change in every aspect of the sound with tube rolling as I have with this amp. I settled on some rather expensive NOS tubes but the end results are an amp sounding far beyond its price. If you have the patience this is a remarkable amp. Mine is dead quiet. I have heard others not so lucky. May just be very susceptable to RF in your lisening room.


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## Twizzleshnizzle

Chodi said:


> The truely amazing thing about the HA-1AMK2 is its ability to change completely with different tubes. I don't mean some subtle change, I mean totally different sounding amp. I own three tube amps and have owned others. I have never seen such a complete change in every aspect of the sound with tube rolling as I have with this amp. I settled on some rather expensive NOS tubes but the end results are an amp sounding far beyond its price. If you have the patience this is a remarkable amp. Mine is dead quiet. I have heard others not so lucky. May just be very susceptable to RF in your lisening room.


Never had an issue with any other solid state or tube amp, and I've tried quite a few.

My friend also has one, his light switch causes interference. 

It does react nicely to tube swaps though.


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## r343

Had this for couple of months and i think its a keeper.
What i hear is that Output A presents vocals forward followed by instruments, Output B has more distant sound, impedance selector tunes this aspect too.


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## r343

Wow turned impedance knob and it came loose, seems like i have to replace very small screw because head of it chipped and won't go tight enough anymore, wonder what might be correct.


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## KC-130

The screw is a "set-screw" and is designed without a protruding head so that it will recess below the surface of the knob as it's tightened into place.
I'm fairly certain your set-screw is not damaged at all.  
A set-screw usually requires a small allen-wrench in order to install it or remove it. (photo)
When you install it with an allen-wrench, just keep turning until it becomes tight.  The set-screw will disappear below the surface of the knob but just continue turning it and it will tighten.  No need to apply excessive force though, just hand tighten.
A set-screw often loosens over time if the knob is used frequently.  It's not a design defect.


----------



## r343

KC-130 said:


> The screw is a "set-screw" and is designed without a protruding head so that it will recess below the surface of the knob as it's tightened into place.
> I'm fairly certain your set-screw is not damaged at all.
> A set-screw usually requires a small allen-wrench in order to install it or remove it. (photo)
> When you install it with an allen-wrench, just keep turning until it becomes tight.  The set-screw will disappear below the surface of the knob but just continue turning it and it will tighten.  No need to apply excessive force though, just hand tighten.
> A set-screw often loosens over time if the knob is used frequently.  It's not a design defect.


Thanks for the tip, impedance selector has rather heavy clicks in my unit (if not every) so no wonder it gave up.


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## touzeen

My unit is almost 2 years old now and the LED under the 12DT5 tube has started to flicker randomly. It does not affect the sound output. Are the LEDs just for decoration?


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## Bkido

touzeen said:


> My unit is almost 2 years old now and the LED under the 12DT5 tube has started to flicker randomly. It does not affect the sound output. Are the LEDs just for decoration?


On my unit also one led under the power tubes doesn't work anymore. They are purely for decoration. I wish one could disable them all because it seems they are going to fail one after the other, long before the amp itself.


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## Chodi

I've had my amp for several months. About last month it started to light the led's randomly. Some would come on and then some would go off while listening. At times they all come on. In any event it does not seem to have any effect on the sound so I really don't care. I do think this has been reported enough so that the problem is common with this amp. Still overall the performance of the amp with some good NOS tubes is excellent. I own many headphones and the amp works and sound good with them all. I can ignore the led issue since it has no effect on the sound or performance of the amp. I would have expected that they would have resolved this by now since the amp has been out for a while.


----------

