# Three New Amps on Preorder from Audio-GD (C-2 11th Anniversary Edition, NFB-1AMP, NFB-3AMP)



## SodaBoy

Three new amps available for preorder from Audio-GD, release in June 15th, 2015.
  
 C-2 (11th Anniversary Edition)  USD480 http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/C22015/C22015EN.htm
 NFB-1AMP                               USD520 http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB1AMP/NFB1AMPEN.htm
 NFB-3AMP                               USD230 http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB3AMP/NFB3AMPEN.htm    
  
 The C-2 and the NFB-1AMP are new Class A amps based on the Master 9 design. The C-2 is single ended, while the NFB-1AMP is fully balanced. The NFB-3AMP is a new lower price single ended Class A amp.
  


> *Different to the C-2 ( 11th Anniversary Edition ):*
> 
> The C-2 is a single ended  headamp and preamp (+/- 30V DC high voltage power supply ), The NFB-1AMP is balance  headamp and preamp (+/-15V DC power supply ).  So They had same output power specs can drive most headphone as well.
> If customer like to keep your headphone with single ended connector (6.3MM), choice the C-2 get better performance than the NFB-1AMP.
> If customer had the balance connector headphone or can modify the headphone with balance connector, choice the NFB-1AMP.


 
  
*External Photos*
  
 Both the C-2 and the NFB-1AMP share the same case, depicted below:
  

  
  
 And the NFB-3AMP
  

  
  
*Internal Photos*
  
 NFB-1AMP Internals
  



 C-2 Internals
  

  
  
 NFB-3AMP Internals


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## session76

which would you recommend for a Hifiman he6?


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## SodaBoy

session76 said:


> which would you recommend for a Hifiman he6?


 
  
 I recommend the NFB-1AMP, it has 8000mw into a 40 ohm load and should be able to handle the HE-6 (50 ohm) comfortably. Keep in mind that the NFB-1AMP is balanced, you will need a balanced cable for the HE-6.
  
 EDIT: Corrected by Kingwa, former observations based on an incomplete spec sheet. Both the C-2 and NFB-1AMP should drive HE-6 comfortably.


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## gto88

So, the new NFB-1AMP is replacing NFB-6, and its power spec is very similar as power amp part of NFB-28.
 Its web. says its discounted for pre-order, but not saying how much, any idea?


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## SodaBoy

gto88 said:


> So, the new NFB-1AMP is replacing NFB-6, and its power spec is very similar as power amp part of NFB-28.
> Its web. says its discounted for pre-order, but not saying how much, any idea?


 

 I have no idea haha, I'm not an insider really so dunno how much preorders are saving.
  
 But yeah the NFB-1AMP is replacing the old NFB-6 and there are a few changes/improvements.
  
 SNR 125dB vs 120dB (5dB improvement)
 100 steps volume control vs the old 80 steps
 New NFB-1AMP only has one gain setting (+16dB), old NFB-6 had two gain settings (0dB low gain and 9dB high gain), hard to say if this was an improvement or not (depends)
 Exponential Volume Control available on NFB-1AMP which used to be exclusive to the C-2, Master-9, HE-9, Ref 10.32, and NFB-27 (basically the TOTL models)
 Lower THD, this is inferred since there was no THD plot on the NFB-6. The THD plot looks impressive as hell.
  
 There might be a few things I missed, but basically these are all the things I ever wanted in an amp, for me this is pretty much perfection. Once I get this, I am done with amps (famous last words lol). I'm glad I held out, there was a reason why I didn't go for the Gustard H10 (or the NFB-6) despite already owning the Gustard X12 + U12. The NFB-1AMP is basically a mini-Master 9. I feel that Audio-GD genuinely made the best amp they could for the price, no intentional feature cuts, no gimping the design to force a price structure.
  
 IMO, the relay attenuator volume control and excellent channel balance on the Audio-GDs truly distinguish them in the audio realm. This is a feature usually found only on amps USD 1,000+ amps, and even then there are a bunch that are still using ordinary alps blue at that level. By comparison the Violectric V281 relay attenuator upgrade costs $579.95 alone, more than the cost of the whole NFB-1AMP. Crazy value.


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## Kingwa

The C2 had improved than the older. The power is much stronger.

Headphone amp Output Power
  ( Max  )25 ohm:   9900MW
 40 ohm:   8000MW
 100 ohm: 3500MW
 300 ohm: 1200MW
 600 ohm:   600MW


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## SodaBoy

kingwa said:


> The C2 had improved than the older. The power is much stronger.
> 
> Headphone amp Output Power
> ( Max  )25 ohm:   9900MW
> ...


 
 Welcome, I didn't expect Kingwa to drop by. In this case C-2 can drive anything out there easily. I assume the specs for the NFB-1AMP are the same? I do not see the headphone amp max output power within Class A for the NFB-1AMP. I think the spec sheets have been updated since I last saw it, the THD plot on the NFB-1AMP is now correct and not only matches the Master 9 but even exceeds it at certain points.


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## Kingwa

Their distortion most on the  2nd Even Order Harmonic Distortion , the  larger distortion or small can not make the sound worst , but larger distortion make the sound smoother,the small make the sound more transparency .
 Usually high biase current class A had bigger Even Order Harmonic Distortion .


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## SodaBoy

True, I believe that's why some prefer the sound of tubes which should add predominantly 2nd order harmonics. It's preferable that odd and higher order distortion and intermodulation distortion be kept as low as possible. Always on, high bias current should remove crossover distortion as well? On another note, the NFB-3AMP looks similar to it's bigger brothers, but without the relay attenuator volume control, and a different PSU. Any comment on that?


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## Kingwa

The NFB3AMP had also the class A PSU built in . And 4 pcs 150W big power transistors as the output stages.


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## cskippy

I'm curious what the pure class A output is for the NFB-1AMP?


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## Stillhart

I know folks have mentioned that the NFB-1AMP is similar to the amp stage of the NFB-28.  If I already have an NFB-28, which I'm currently only using as an amp, is there any reason to get an NFB-1AMP?  Will it be an upgrade?  The only really obvious thing I can see is that is has ACSS inputs to I can use the DAC-19 via ACSS instead of RCA.


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## TheChillburger

The 1AMP looks like a good competitor to the Liquid Carbon. I might have to switch my preorder!


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## Stillhart

thechillburger said:


> The 1AMP looks like a good competitor to the Liquid Carbon. I might have to switch my preorder!


 
  
 As I said in the DAC-19 thread, I'm considering cancelling my LC preorder for the NFB-1AMP as well.  I'm curious if it'll be much of an upgrade from my NFB-28 tho.


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## cskippy

I think the biggest difference is that the NFB-1AMP is pure class A at least for the first watts.  That should be enough power to stay in class A for pretty much all headphones at normal to high listening levels.  The other benefit is that the power supply is just for the amp and not shared between amp/dac like the NFB-28.


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## Pirakaphile

The NFB-1 looks like it might solve the preamp problem I'm going to have with the Liquid Carbon. Reading up on the product page is pretty damn funny due to everything added and lost in translation, but this amp looks very very good. I'll wait until I read a few reviews and if they have praise up the wazoo I'll buy it. After that, I'll decide which one I'll sell and I'll do a write up on the two. Here's to hoping!


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## SodaBoy

Going to put in my NFB-1AMP preorder today. I'm actually wondering if they included the 7 sec display off on these newer models. I do a lot of night time listening, if it's an optional I'll ask them to add it.
  
 EDIT:


gto88 said:


> So, the new NFB-1AMP is replacing NFB-6, and its power spec is very similar as power amp part of NFB-28.
> Its web. says its discounted for pre-order, but not saying how much, any idea?


 
  
 Preorder discounted price for NFB-1AMP is USD $494, just found out in my preorder. Updated main post.


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## Pirakaphile

sodaboy said:


> Going to put in my NFB-1AMP preorder today. I'm actually wondering if they included the 7 sec display off on these newer models. I do a lot of night time listening, if it's an optional I'll ask them to add it.
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> Preorder discounted price for NFB-1AMP is USD $494, just found out in my preorder. Updated main post.



Impressions soon as you can, I'm thinking about this little (hah, if the hulk is little that is) guy too. However, Schiit has preamps planned for the future so it's going to be a contest between the two.


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## gto88

Just placed my order of NFB-1AMP.
 I was back and forth between NFB-28, or NFB-6.
 I am a fan of true discrete system (separate DAC, preamp, amp), but that will incur too
 pricy for a complete system, so I hesitated, then I found NFB-28 which is a good price with all I need.
 But, it would take out all the flexibility that I want, and the review of NFB-6 was not good.
 Then it comes NFB-1AMP.
 Without any review, this is big jump of faith.
 I am ordering this betting on good reputation of Audio-GD products, and also betting
 that Mr. He Qinghua is producing this AMP which must be better than the one it replaces.


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## SodaBoy

pirakaphile said:


> Impressions soon as you can, I'm thinking about this little (hah, if the hulk is little that is) guy too. However, Schiit has preamps planned for the future so it's going to be a contest between the two.


 

 I'm not a speaker guy, but the quality of the volume control is a pretty big deal in preamps. The <0.05 dB channel balance on the Audio-GD relay attenuators is excellent. Schiit also has one on their Raggy, but too expensive for me, hopefully their preamps will feature something like that.
  
  


gto88 said:


> Just placed my order of NFB-1AMP.
> I was back and forth between NFB-28, or NFB-6.
> I am a fan of true discrete system (separate DAC, preamp, amp), but that will incur too
> pricy for a complete system, so I hesitated, then I found NFB-28 which is a good price with all I need.
> ...


 
  
 I like to keep my components discrete as well, more flexibility and more futureproof.
  
 The NFB-6 was a good amp, but the reviewer decided to run a balanced amp in single ended mode, and decided he didn't like it that way. This is why Kingwa states repeatedly now, C-2 for single ended, and NFB-1AMP for balanced. At this price, you are getting TOTL performance with either single ended, or balanced, it can't possibly be all things for all people, not at this price.
  
 Just judging from the specs of the NFB-1AMP, its performance should be excellent. Might get another one or maybe a C-2 for the living room later, due to the remote control which is also something that is generally unavailable at this price bracket.


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## Pirakaphile

sodaboy said:


> I'm not a speaker guy, but the quality of the volume control is a pretty big deal in preamps. The <0.05 dB channel balance on the Audio-GD relay attenuators is excellent. Schiit also has one on their Raggy, but too expensive for me, hopefully their preamps will feature something like that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Speaking of speakers, I keep looking at the Master-3 amp and wondering how it compares to the Emotiva XPA-2. Same power output, very similar specs. Twice the price though, and I can't find a single review.. However, the NFB-1 does look like an amazing amp and I might get it just to try it out in competition with the Liquid Carbon. Either of the two should sell pretty easily on the forums here if I decide I like one more.


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## SodaBoy

I have some JBL floorstanders in the living room, being run off I think a ~$250 CAD Sony receiver. The way I see it is room EQ, room treatment, and good speakers should come first, and TOTL amps and DACs should be that final touch. Out of all of these, I'd say room EQ is perhaps the cheapest and offers the greatest results. Measurement mic + software can come at like $200-300 bucks, I've even seen free software which leaves only the calibrated mic.
  
 Between the Emotiva and Audio-GD though, what I see is that Audio-GD can maintain Class A to a much higher level of power. Emotiva is Class AB, will be more efficient, but will slip out of Class A a lot sooner than the Audio-GD, and once in Class B it will have higher distortion. I would say the Emotiva is a bargain mid-end product that is good for the majority of people out there, while the Master-3 is a bargain top of the line product for those who have pretty much done everything else.
  
 If you do go the Audio-GD route though, you could use ACSS preamp out to the Master-3 from the NFB-1AMP. ACSS will eliminate all these cable impedance matching issues, but generally signal reflection won't be a problem in normal connections until you get to around 10m or more.


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## Pirakaphile

sodaboy said:


> I have some JBL floorstanders in the living room, being run off I think a ~$250 CAD Sony receiver. The way I see it is room EQ, room treatment, and good speakers should come first, and TOTL amps and DACs should be that final touch. Out of all of these, I'd say room EQ is perhaps the cheapest and offers the greatest results. Measurement mic + software can come at like $200-300 bucks, I've even seen free software which leaves only the calibrated mic.
> 
> Between the Emotiva and Audio-GD though, what I see is that Audio-GD can maintain Class A to a much higher level of power. Emotiva is Class AB, will be more efficient, but will slip out of Class A a lot sooner than the Audio-GD, and once in Class B it will have higher distortion. I would say the Emotiva is a bargain mid-end product that is good for the majority of people out there, while the Master-3 is a bargain top of the line product for those who have pretty much done everything else.
> 
> If you do go the Audio-GD route though, you could use ACSS preamp out to the Master-3 from the NFB-1AMP. ACSS will eliminate all these cable impedance matching issues, but generally signal reflection won't be a problem in normal connections until you get to around 10m or more.


 
 I'm gonna be getting Magnepans in the future so I like the high power output at 4 ohms. I'll have other cheaper speakers, but music will be confined to Magnepans usually, so the fact that the Master-3 is rated not only at 4 ohms but 2, I think the Audio-GD amp is going to be a better fit with my speaker choice. I'll figure it all out in the future. Back onto the NFB-1! I'm looking forward to hearing this amp, and probably looking at it. The insides are just plain gorgeous..


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## lukeap69

Can we call NFB-1AMP as NFB-1AMP  because NFB-1 is a DAC...


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## gto88

The NFB-1 dac is now named as "NFB-1DAC" on Audio-GD web. site.
 I believe that is to distinguish AMP vs DAC in name of NFB-1.


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## gto88

I am wondering about the statement in NFB-1AMP's manual:
 > The different signal cables and power cables can change the sound flavors of the unit.
  
 I heard that power cord will affect the purity of the sound.
 Is a power conditioner better than audio friendly power cord?


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## Stillhart

gto88 said:


> I am wondering about the statement in NFB-1AMP's manual:
> > The different signal cables and power cables can change the sound flavors of the unit.
> 
> I heard that power cord will affect the purity of the sound.
> Is a power conditioner better than audio friendly power cord?


 
  
 That a question of much controversy.  I suggest checking in the Sound Science section of the forum, as discussions about cables are supposed to live there.  Just remember, the best way to know if it sounds different is to try for yourself.


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## lukeap69

gto88 said:


> The NFB-1 dac is now named as "NFB-1DAC" on Audio-GD web. site.
> I believe that is to distinguish AMP vs DAC in name of NFB-1.




You are right, they did. Now I have to change my DAC's birth certificate.


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## aqsw

pirakaphile said:


> The NFB-1 looks like it might solve the preamp problem I'm going to have with the Liquid Carbon. Reading up on the product page is pretty damn funny due to everything added and lost in translation, but this amp looks very very good. I'll wait until I read a few reviews and if they have praise up the wazoo I'll buy it. After that, I'll decide which one I'll sell and I'll do a write up on the two. Here's to hoping!



How can you have a pre amp problem with the Carbon.... It's an amplifier., it accepts rcas and balanced. Whats that got to do with a preamplifier problem?

Sorry, i havent read the whole post but a pre amp problem on an amp doesnt make sense to me.


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## DreamKing

The NFB-1AMP is really really interesting at this price...Will keep my eye on this, as I may or may not get it this year. Maybe Gustard will take note on this price at this performance level for their fully-balanced amp.


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## DreamKing

aqsw said:


> How can you have a pre amp problem with the Carbon.... It's an amplifier., it accepts rcas and balanced. Whats that got to do with a preamplifier problem?
> 
> Sorry, i havent read the whole post but a pre amp problem on an amp doesnt make sense to me.


 
  
 He probably means because it doesn't have pre-outs/line out so can't be used as a preamp.


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## Pirakaphile

aqsw said:


> How can you have a pre amp problem with the Carbon.... It's an amplifier., it accepts rcas and balanced. Whats that got to do with a preamplifier problem?
> 
> Sorry, i havent read the whole post but a pre amp problem on an amp doesnt make sense to me.



The Carbon, as good a little amp as it's supposed to be, has no pre-amp out due to issues of space and price. The NFB-1 amp has pre-amp outs that work with the relay-switch volume control. I'm just gonna bide my time and wait to see what Schiit releases pre-amp wise 'cause Jason said they had some planned. I might get the NFB-1 anyway just to see what it sounds like and maybe use it in some other system ifI ever make it rich.


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## tim3320070

pirakaphile said:


> Speaking of speakers, I keep looking at the Master-3 amp and wondering how it compares to the Emotiva XPA-2. Same power output, very similar specs. Twice the price though, and I can't find a single review.. However, the NFB-1 does look like an amazing amp and I might get it just to try it out in competition with the Liquid Carbon. Either of the two should sell pretty easily on the forums here if I decide I like one more.


 
 I owned an xpa2 for a while, powerful but i sold it due to what I felt was a bit of glare and edge to the sound, never have I heard glare from any of my numerous agd products including my monster C10SE amp


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## Pirakaphile

tim3320070 said:


> I owned an xpa2 for a while, powerful but i sold it due to what I felt was a bit of glare and edge to the sound, never have I heard glare from any of my numerous agd products including my monster C10SE amp


 
 Yeah, I'm liking the look of the Audio-GD amps and such. Schiit has the DAC world virtually in a headlock in my opinion, especially once they release the updates to the Bifrost and Gungnir, so all I really need is a speaker amp and a preamp from schiit or the preamp in the NFB-1. I'll wait for a review on the NFB-1 and I'll wait to see what Schiit is doing in the speaker world since that's really all they have left to do.


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## Stillhart

pirakaphile said:


> Yeah, I'm liking the look of the Audio-GD amps and such. *Schiit has the DAC world virtually in a headlock in my opinion*, especially once they release the updates to the Bifrost and Gungnir, so all I really need is a speaker amp and a preamp from schiit or the preamp in the NFB-1. I'll wait for a review on the NFB-1 and I'll wait to see what Schiit is doing in the speaker world since that's really all they have left to do.


 
  
 Whoo, been drinking the kool-aid, huh?  :-D  For anyone not willing to spend $2300 on a DAC (i.e. a vast majority of users), Schiit DAC's are not particularly better or worse that anything else in their comparative price ranges.  We'll see if they do eventually trickle the R2R tech down to the more realistically priced DAC's, but until then, they're just another company with great brand recognition.


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## tim3320070

stillhart said:


> Whoo, been drinking the kool-aid, huh?  :-D  For anyone not willing to spend $2300 on a DAC (i.e. a vast majority of users), Schiit DAC's are not particularly better or worse that anything else in their comparative price ranges.  We'll see if they do eventually trickle the R2R tech down to the more realistically priced DAC's, but until then, they're just another company with great brand recognition.


 
 well said but I am admittedly a fan of AGD for bang-for-buck reasons


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## Pirakaphile

stillhart said:


> Whoo, been drinking the kool-aid, huh?  :-D  For anyone not willing to spend $2300 on a DAC (i.e. a vast majority of users), Schiit DAC's are not particularly better or worse that anything else in their comparative price ranges.  We'll see if they do eventually trickle the R2R tech down to the more realistically priced DAC's, but until then, they're just another company with great brand recognition.



You got me, I am a big Schiit fanboy.  But when they do release updates for their more budget-oriented DACs I have confidence they'll sound fantastic. I could be wrong, but I'm willing to bet that those DAC upgrades are going to put Schiit in a good place.


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## Stillhart

pirakaphile said:


> You got me, I am a big Schiit fanboy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 If they actually make an R2R DAC with their new tech that can compete with the DAC-19 in price and quality, I'll give credit where it's due.  Until then, I'm not counting any chickens before they're hatched.
  
 Anyways, back to the topic at hand:  waiting patiently for June 15 for some impressions!  lol


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## Pirakaphile

stillhart said:


> If they actually make an R2R DAC with their new tech that can compete with the DAC-19 in price and quality, I'll give credit where it's due.  Until then, I'm not counting any chickens before they're hatched.
> 
> Anyways, back to the topic at hand:  waiting patiently for June 15 for some impressions!  lol



Just wait for the R2R Modi. 

I really love the look of these amps opened up. Puts my ocd at ease and makes it look like they know what they're doing. I keep reading up on the relay-switched attenuators but I just can't tell what signal exactly the resistors are resisting.


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## Stillhart

pirakaphile said:


> Just wait for the R2R Modi.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Each DAC chip on the Yggy costs as much as one Modi.


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## Pirakaphile

stillhart said:


> Each DAC chip on the Yggy costs as much as one Modi.



Don't crush my dreams you REALIST!


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## Stillhart

pirakaphile said:


> Don't crush my dreams you REALIST!


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## darren700

Definitely ordering a NFB-1Amp to match my NFB-1DAC. Already have an email sent for an order
 Love the NFB1 DAC (2015), cant wait to get a matching balanced preamp/amp. At this price IMO its a steal. I was planning on saving up for a Master 9, but at this price its a no-brainier.
 I want to use the combo for a dedicated 2 channel setup with my Emotiva XPA-200.
 I'm not sure on speakers yet but Im leaning towards Goldenear Triton Two's. (Currently have Axiom Audio M60's)


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## JimmyJohns99

Anyone with an idea how these ~$500 amps compare with the gustard h10? Are any of their Dac/Amp all in one
 s(nfb-28 nbfb-29) worth looking at?


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## SodaBoy

jimmyjohns99 said:


> Anyone with an idea how these ~$500 amps compare with the gustard h10? Are any of their Dac/Amp all in one
> s(nfb-28 nbfb-29) worth looking at?


 
 The Audio-GD amps have much better channel balance than the H10. I'm not going to split hairs on other measurements, since I feel both camps are on par in that regard. The remote control feature on the Audio-GD stuff wil give you the flexibility to use it in a living room setup. I'm one of those guys who never thought I'd need a remote control, but now I'm regretting it because I can't retire my older gear to the living room.
  
 The AIO units are worth looking at because Kingwa has nailed down all the fundamentals which is not a trivial task. You get an excellent amp, dac, preamp, with high quality relay volume control and remote control. It's a bit hard to pitch his products since he's selling to a different kind of buyer that buys on features and objective performance, not hype. It is rare to see any Audio-GD reviews chock full of lyrical content like "Wow, it's so euphonic, the mids are literally melting in my ears like dark chocolate, the vocals so sublime!" I feel the Audio-GD design philosophy is to simply to create a wire with gain that is true to source material, without adding anything negative to the presentation.


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## DreamKing

jimmyjohns99 said:


> Anyone with an idea how these ~$500 amps compare with the gustard h10? Are any of their Dac/Amp all in one
> s(nfb-28 nbfb-29) worth looking at?


 
 Also, the new a-gd amps are considerably more powerful if need be. If you have a balanced dac and need it run in balanced mode, the choice is easy with the NFB-1 over the H10. Since the Gustard isn't fully balanced and the NFB-1 is meant for balanced operation.
  


sodaboy said:


> The Audio-GD amps have much better channel balance than the H10. I'm not going to split hairs on other measurements, since I feel both camps are on par in that regard. The remote control feature on the Audio-GD stuff wil give you the flexibility to use it in a living room setup. I'm one of those guys who never thought I'd need a remote control, but now I'm regretting it because I can't retire my older gear to the living room.
> 
> The AIO units are worth looking at because Kingwa has nailed down all the fundamentals which is not a trivial task. You get an excellent amp, dac, preamp, with high quality relay volume control and remote control. It's a bit hard to pitch his products since he's selling to a different kind of buyer that buys on features and objective performance, not hype. It is rare to see any Audio-GD reviews chock full of lyrical content like "Wow, it's so euphonic, the mids are literally melting in my ears like dark chocolate, the vocals so sublime!" I feel the Audio-GD design philosophy is to simply to create a wire with gain that is true to source material, without adding anything negative to the presentation.


 
  
 Would it be safe to assume the C2 in SE offer about the same performance as the NFB1 in balanced? From a glance, the relay-based volume control and everything else about it assumes so.


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## SodaBoy

dreamking said:


> Also, the new a-gd amps are considerably more powerful if need be. If you have a balanced dac and need it run in balanced mode, the choice is easy with the NFB-1 over the H10. Since the Gustard isn't fully balanced and the NFB-1 is meant for balanced operation.
> 
> 
> Would it be safe to assume the C2 in SE offer about the same performance as the NFB1 in balanced? From a glance, the relay-based volume control and everything else about it assumes so.


 

 Yeah, I'd say C-2 is on par with NFB-1AMP, Kingwa would probably say so too. I went with NFB-1AMP because the Gustard X12 is already balanced, and I wanted to keep it that way through the rest of the chain.


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## darren700

Just sent payment for a NFB-1AMP.
 Cant wait to hear this thing!
 I am interested to see how it compares to my Balanced B22, SA-31SE and C2-SA.
 Will Be feeding it intially with Yulong DA8 in my office setup driving the LCD'2s. Then when I get some extra cash for speakers (bonus soon) it will be used for a dedicated pre-amp with NFB-1DAC (2015) in a 2 Channel Speaker Setup.
  
 Beyond excited for this amp!.
 Its been too long since a bought an audio toy haha,


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## dermott

darren700 said:


> Just sent payment for a NFB-1AMP.
> Cant wait to hear this thing!
> I am interested to see how it compares to my Balanced B22, SA-31SE and C2-SA.
> Will Be feeding it intially with Yulong DA8 in my office setup driving the LCD'2s. Then when I get some extra cash for speakers (bonus soon) it will be used for a dedicated pre-amp with NFB-1DAC (2015) in a 2 Channel Speaker Setup.
> ...


 

 Cool! I am also interested in this amp. I also have the Yulong DA8 and LCD2, so I would love to hear what you think when you get it! Are your LCD2 pre or post fazor? Mine are pre-fazor 2.2.


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## 406382

Can anyone comment on the general sound signature of AGD products? Particularly the treble? I'll be receiving a Hifiman HE-500 soon, and would prefer to partner it with an amp that has forgiving highs. I'm considering getting the NFB3. 
  
 My current amp (Schiit Magni) is too harsh for my liking. The AGD offerings have very high output, a good thing for the HE-500, but that won't cut it for me if the treble is too harsh.


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## inseconds99

mark235 said:


> Can anyone comment on the general sound signature of AGD products? Particularly the treble? I'll be receiving a Hifiman HE-500 soon, and would prefer to partner it with an amp that has forgiving highs. I'm considering getting the NFB3.
> 
> My current amp (Schiit Magni) is too harsh for my liking. The AGD offerings have very high output, a good thing for the HE-500, but that won't cut it for me if the treble is too harsh.


 
 +1, I am holding out on a new Dac and Amp on my HD800 as there are tons of new products coming out this month. Here is what I am looking at for my HD800's as I decided today that I want to stick with a Solid State AMP.
  
 1. NFB-3AMP + ODAC
 2 .M-Stage HPA-3U
 3. The Element JDSLabs


----------



## Stillhart

inseconds99 said:


> +1, I am holding out on a new Dac and Amp on my HD800 as there are tons of new products coming out this month. Here is what I am looking at for my HD800's as I decided today that I want to stick with a Solid State AMP.
> 
> 1. NFB-3AMP + ODAC
> 2 .M-Stage HPA-3U
> 3. The Element JDSLabs


 
  
 I hate to be that guy, but don't you think you might want to spend a bit more on an amp for a $1500 headphone?  And isn't the HD800 notoriously picky on its source chain?  I'd think you'd want to spend some time in the HD800 thread to figure out what works.  Since the NFB-3AMP is brand new, I don't think anyone will be able to tell you if it'll pair well with anything.


----------



## inseconds99

stillhart said:


> I hate to be that guy, but don't you think you might want to spend a bit more on an amp for a $1500 headphone?  And isn't the HD800 notoriously picky on its source chain?  I'd think you'd want to spend some time in the HD800 thread to figure out what works.  Since the NFB-3AMP is brand new, I don't think anyone will be able to tell you if it'll pair well with anything.


 
 Its all good Still, btw I mentioned you in another post just now. I am not a huge believer in the need to spend thousands of dollars on a dac/amp or cables. I have spoken to plenty of head-fiers (including yourself) who have a wealth of information and knowledge. I've also gathered a ton of knowledge by owning and trying a ton of equipment personally. I have also spent time on other websites which I need not name, in which guys like Purrin say amps like the HPA-2, Bottlehead Crack, Vali and Valhalla 2 are simply amazing with the HD800's and not one of those amps are over $350. There is value to be had and seeing as this is just my first step outside of my X7 (which sounds decent) I think it is a good step. Not to mention, like you said none of these amps have been reviewed yet, maybe i'll stumble across greatness, or maybe not LOL.


----------



## Stillhart

inseconds99 said:


> Its all good Still, btw I mentioned you in another post just now. I am not a huge believer in the need to spend thousands of dollars on a dac/amp or cables. I have spoken to plenty of head-fiers (including yourself) who have a wealth of information and knowledge. I've also gathered a ton of knowledge by owning and trying a ton of equipment personally. I have also spent time on other websites which I need not name, in which guys like Purrin say amps like the HPA-2, Bottlehead Crack, Vali and Valhalla 2 are simply amazing with the HD800's and not one of those amps are over $350. There is value to be had and seeing as this is just my first step outside of my X7 (which sounds decent) I think it is a good step. Not to mention, like you said none of these amps have been reviewed yet, maybe i'll stumble across greatness, or maybe not LOL.


 
  
 Well I'm glad you took that well; the last guy I disagreed with in an AGD thread blocked me I think.  lol  
  
 Seems like you have some solid reasoning (tho I can't say I agree with all of it) and I appreciate your taking the time to explain it.  Certainly stepping up from the X7 will probably be noticeable, no matter which amp you go with.  As you know, I'm a big fan of all the A-GD stuff I've heard, so I'd think that taking a chance on the DAC-3AMP isn't that big of a risk.  Then again, I've also had an M-Stage and I have a JDS Labs portable amp so they're all three probably decent bets.  Between the three though, I would personally be much more inclined to take a chance on a new AGD amp than anything else.


----------



## inseconds99

stillhart said:


> Well I'm glad you took that well; the last guy I disagreed with in an AGD thread blocked me I think.  lol
> 
> Seems like you have some solid reasoning (tho I can't say I agree with all of it) and I appreciate your taking the time to explain it.  Certainly stepping up from the X7 will probably be noticeable, no matter which amp you go with.  As you know, I'm a big fan of all the A-GD stuff I've heard, so I'd think that taking a chance on the DAC-3AMP isn't that big of a risk.  Then again, I've also had an M-Stage and I have a JDS Labs portable amp so they're all three probably decent bets.  Between the three though, I would personally be much more inclined to take a chance on a new AGD amp than anything else.


 
 Def man, I appreciate your help. I am actually pretty excited to read about this JDS Element as well as its a 1.5W @ 32ohm desktop dac/amp. That is a good amount of power, could be very interesting. I am actually trying to stay with a neutral and transparent sound. I want to hear the music as artist intended with as little coloration as possible. A lot of people in the HD800 forum promote tube amps and warm dacs. I just want the sound to be as transparent as it can be without equipment changing anything.


----------



## darren700

Quote:


mark235 said:


> Can anyone comment on the general sound signature of AGD products? Particularly the treble? I'll be receiving a Hifiman HE-500 soon, and would prefer to partner it with an amp that has forgiving highs. I'm considering getting the NFB3.
> 
> My current amp (Schiit Magni) is too harsh for my liking. The AGD offerings have very high output, a good thing for the HE-500, but that won't cut it for me if the treble is too harsh.


 
  
 With Auidio-GD they all sound pretty damn neutral, Kingwa strives for this. the treble is always very detailed, and the bass is right there with it in quantity and quality.  I don't find them bright at all for the most part, The exception was the NFB-10SE i owned briefly.
 I really like the Diamond Differential SA series amps (have SA-31SE and C2-SA) because they add a bit off warmth to the sound. Not alot, but just enough. I love my SA-31SE with both LCD2,2 and Denon D2000, but prefer My Balanced B22 over the SA-31, but that is to be expected from the beast B22 in 4 channel balanced.
This is the B22 solude used in his amp comparison that bested the Woo WA22, Liquid Fire, Trafomatic HeadOne, and GS-1 w/ DACT.
  
 I would like to see the NFB-1AMP beat the B22 but I will just have to wait until it arrives!
 also, I really love that audio-gd decided to include a volume knob for the relay based volume in the NFB-1AMP.
 I do not like using the buttons for volume on my SA-31SE and tend to use my Yulong DA8 as a pre-amp instead.


----------



## darren700

dermott said:


> Cool! I am also interested in this amp. I also have the Yulong DA8 and LCD2, so I would love to hear what you think when you get it! Are your LCD2 pre or post fazor? Mine are pre-fazor 2.2.


 
  
 I will post some impressions, very excited,  Im not sure which version they are, is there an easy way to check?


----------



## Stillhart

darren700 said:


> Quote:
> 
> With Auidio-GD they all sound pretty damn neutral, Kingwa strives for this. the treble is always very detailed, and the bass is right there with it in quantity and quality.  I don't find them bright at all for the most part, The exception was the NFB-10SE i owned briefly.
> I really like the Diamond Differential SA series amps (have SA-31SE and C2-SA) because they add a bit off warmth to the sound. Not alot, but just enough. I love my SA-31SE with both LCD2,2 and Denon D2000, but prefer My Balanced B22 over the SA-31, but that is to be expected from the beast B22 in 4 channel balanced.
> ...


 
 I believe Solude was the one who said the C2-Class A beat the B22.  In the DAC-19 thread, if I'm not mistaken.  I'm going to have to find that quote because it definitely caused me to raise an eyebrow...
  
 EDIT:
  
 Quote:


solude said:


> Keep your Audio-GD.  It's also better than the B22.  As are quite a few amps under $1000.
> 
> If I liked the DAC19 and wanted a single ended partner amp... C2 Class A end of search.  The NFB-6 is a SMD version of the amp already in the 28 but without the 2015 revisions.  That said the power supply is more advanced.  But given you aren't using half the amp... better to get the C2 which is literally a single ended M9.  The bad news is the minute you get yours there will likely be a 2015 update to the C2 that brings it's look and function in-line with the other 2015 designs
> 
> When it does though... GS-X mk2... gone... maybe


 
  
 He says my NFB-28's amp section is better than the B22 and later says it's better than any Cavalli amp.


----------



## darren700

stillhart said:


> I believe Solude was the one who said the C2-Class A beat the B22.  In the DAC-19 thread, if I'm not mistaken.  I'm going to have to find that quote because it definitely caused me to raise an eyebrow...
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> ...


 

 Wow! thanks for that info. Maybe the NFB1AMP will be better than my B22, since King-wa himself says its heavily based on Master 9.


----------



## Stillhart

darren700 said:


> Wow! thanks for that info. Maybe the NFB1AMP will be better than my B22, since King-wa himself says its heavily based on Master 9.


 
  
 I'd certainly like to hear a second opinion on it.  I find it hard to believe that an $800 AIO will sound better than a very expensive ($1000+), well-regarded dedicated amp.  Not because the price is indicative of quality, but more because I'd think more folks would be creaming themselves over the AGD's if they were giant-killers of that stature.


----------



## darren700

stillhart said:


> I'd certainly like to hear a second opinion on it.  I find it hard to believe that an $800 AIO will sound better than a very expensive ($1000+), well-regarded dedicated amp.  Not because the price is indicative of quality, but more because I'd think more folks would be creaming themselves over the AGD's if they were giant-killers of that stature.


 

 The NFB-1AMP is not an all in one.. its an amp/preamp based on Master 9.
 But I do agree I would be surprised if it bested the B22, the B22 is my endgame after-all. Unfortunately I don't know any local head-fi'ers


----------



## Stillhart

darren700 said:


> The NFB-1AMP is not an all in one.. its an amp/preamp based on Master 9.
> But I do agree I would be surprised if it bested the B22, the B22 is my endgame after-all. Unfortunately I don't know any local head-fi'ers


 
  
 I was referring to my NFB-28 as the AIO, but according to Solude the NFB-1AMP is basically the same as the amp stage of the NFB-28 with a better power supply, so same difference.


----------



## DreamKing

@Stillhart I assume you run the NFB-28 in balanced mode?


----------



## Stillhart

dreamking said:


> @Stillhart I assume you run the NFB-28 in balanced mode?


 
  
 Yes indeed.  The SE works fine when needed, but the balanced sounds better (as it should).


----------



## DreamKing

From its particular design, no doubt.
  
 Whenever both balanced and single-ended are offered, balanced will use all the parts and single-ended typically half or less vs something like the C2 that is built single-ended from the ground up (as you know). I still think the choice is nice if you happen to use it with secondary headphones that don't need as much power and that are only cabled singled-ended. Though it adds a lot to costs, so not useful if someone has an amp that can do that already.


----------



## 406382

darren700 said:


> Quote:
> 
> With Auidio-GD they all sound pretty damn neutral, Kingwa strives for this. the treble is always very detailed, and the bass is right there with it in quantity and quality.  I don't find them bright at all for the most part, The exception was the NFB-10SE i owned briefly.
> I really like the Diamond Differential SA series amps (have SA-31SE and C2-SA) because they add a bit off warmth to the sound. Not alot, but just enough. I love my SA-31SE with both LCD2,2 and Denon D2000, but prefer My Balanced B22 over the SA-31, but that is to be expected from the beast B22 in 4 channel balanced.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks. It's more of a rolled off treble amp I'm looking for to pair with the HE-500, rather than a dead neutral one. So perhaps the Audio GD's don't do the sound I'm looking for. Still, their price / performance ratio looks so high that I might not be able to ignore them on a €300 budget. The more I search on HE-500 pairings on a budget, the more Gustard and Audio GD pop up


----------



## SodaBoy

mark235 said:


> Thanks. It's more of a rolled off treble amp I'm looking for to pair with the HE-500, rather than a dead neutral one. So perhaps the Audio GD's don't do the sound I'm looking for. Still, their price / performance ratio looks so high that I might not be able to ignore them on a €300 budget. The more I search on HE-500 pairings on a budget, the more Gustard and Audio GD pop up


 

 Consensus is that Audio-GD components are neutral, or "wire with gain".
  
 However the C-2 11th Anniversary Edition and the budget NFB-3AMP features two jumper settings that will make the sound warmer, IMO exactly what you want. I'm not familiar with every brand out there, but to my knowledge very few other than Audio-GD do this.
  


> *Setting the C-2 have warmer sound:*
> The two different settings  for setting the C-2 have warmer sound. Push into 2 or 4 pc jumpers let they active .
> The warmer 1 setting can effect the sound become warmer for the 4 group RCA inputs .
> The warmer 2 setting can effect the sound become warmer for all inputs .
> Users can setting both to let the sound more warmer . (Please pull out the power cord before the cover of the chassis is taken off .)


 

  
 http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/C22015/C22015EN_Use.htm


----------



## ungawa

Hi folks - 
  
 I have the AGD Master 8 - and very happy with it I am! That said, I have found myself looking over the forums to see if I should be considering anything beyond this ... like the Master 9 ... 
  
 I'm curious about the NFB-1AMP being based on the M9 - so begs the Q... What would be the advantages of the M9 (or M8 for that matter) over the NFB-1AMP ?


----------



## SodaBoy

ungawa said:


> Hi folks -
> 
> I have the AGD Master 8 - and very happy with it I am! That said, I have found myself looking over the forums to see if I should be considering anything beyond this ... like the Master 9 ...
> 
> I'm curious about the NFB-1AMP being based on the M9 - so begs the Q... What would be the advantages of the M9 (or M8 for that matter) over the NFB-1AMP ?


 
  
 The Master series has more extensive power regulation. Each channel is fed by separate power supplies and regulators in a dual mono topology. Channel crosstalk, overall distortion, and noise should be lower.
  
 Honestly though, if you have a Master 8, you should be happy with what you got, it's still a top amp. I was saving for a Master 9 myself, but when I saw the NFB-1AMP I jumped at the opportunity. IMO, the NFB-1AMP and the C-2 are already TOTL territory at a very affordable price...


----------



## 406382

sodaboy said:


> Consensus is that Audio-GD components are neutral, or "wire with gain".
> 
> However the C-2 11th Anniversary Edition and the budget NFB-3AMP features two jumper settings that will make the sound warmer, IMO exactly what you want. I'm not familiar with every brand out there, but to my knowledge very few other than Audio-GD do this.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 That does look very interesting! I wonder whether the jumpers targets a specific area in the sound spectrum (like Ifi does with their Bass Boost switch), or if the whole sound spectrum is affected.


----------



## SodaBoy

mark235 said:


> That does look very interesting! I wonder whether the jumpers targets a specific area in the sound spectrum (like Ifi does with their Bass Boost switch), or if the whole sound spectrum is affected.


 

 Well, I think the jumper settings are more subtle than that. A typical bass boost switch adds +6dB or more to the lower octaves. The optional jumper settings are meant to impart a warmer tilt to an otherwise neutral amp.


----------



## MadSounds

mark235 said:


> Can anyone comment on the general sound signature of AGD products? Particularly the treble? I'll be receiving a Hifiman HE-500 soon, and would prefer to partner it with an amp that has forgiving highs. I'm considering getting the NFB3.
> 
> My current amp (Schiit Magni) is too harsh for my liking. The AGD offerings have very high output, a good thing for the HE-500, but that won't cut it for me if the treble is too harsh.




I run my he500's balanced from the NFB28, could not be more happy. Treble is present but smooth, sabre done right is the perfect compliment to the slightly dark 500.

I dont have any real knowledge to back this up but I feel a single dac/amp could have advantages in terms of short cableless path and near perfect pairring between stages. Of course discrete gives independent/better PS and EMI shielding, but I would not assume as a rule separation sounds better.

Anyone in the market for a dac/amp go nfb28, no sabre/treble harshness to my ears or in any review ive read.


----------



## MadSounds

sodaboy said:


> Well, I think the jumper settings are more subtle than that. A typical bass boost switch adds +6dB or more to the lower octaves. The optional jumper settings are meant to impart a warmer tilt to an otherwise neutral amp.




Anyone hear used the jumpers on a adg product? Havent trying mine yet and im very interested in HOW this works. 

My jumpers came with a rotating switch, which way is active/not and can I assume turing this all the way off is the same as not installed?


----------



## uncola

hey guys I'm looking for a preamp with remote, don't really need a headphone amp.. the c2a 11th and nfb-1amp seem like good options.. I noticed the c2a has two gain settings.. will that affect the rca preamp output?  So therefore it might be a more flexible preamp than the nfb1-amp which has a fixed gain of 16?  my speaker amp uses rca.. but I would like the xlr for the future...  or if you guys know of another preamp at similar price let me know..
 edit: and does the warmth jumper work for rca out too?


----------



## Pirakaphile

uncola said:


> hey guys I'm looking for a preamp with remote, don't really need a headphone amp.. the c2a 11th and nfb-1amp seem like good options.. I noticed the c2a has two gain settings.. will that affect the rca preamp output?  So therefore it might be a more flexible preamp than the nfb1-amp which has a fixed gain of 16?  my speaker amp uses rca.. but I would like the xlr for the future...  or if you guys know of another preamp at similar price let me know..
> edit: and does the warmth jumper work for rca out too?


 
 If all you're using is the preamp function you can get the C2 amp and skip out on the balanced bit, though if you aren't using them with headphones it does seem a big waste unless you get headphones in the future. Khozmo makes some damn good looking attenuator preamps at reasonable prices too, and Schiit is going to start making preamps in the future as well.


----------



## uncola

thanks pirakaphile.  preamps are so expensive, the audiogd ones seem very low priced for what you get, with nice remote and all.  the khozmo were interesting but I'm already using a passive and volume is low even at max on the knob so I was thinking I should get an active preamp that has gain


----------



## Pirakaphile

Looks like the Audio-gd option will be a good way to go, especially for speakers. Schiit has pre-amp outs on a lot of their amps, but it looks like you used to have some Schiit gear and don't have it anymore.


----------



## tim3320070

Jumpers will provide very subtle changes in "warmth" with AGD amps from my exp.


----------



## uncola

I just ordered the c2a 11th anniversary edition.  audiogd replied and said the gain setting affects rca preamp out too.  So I can use 10x or 19x gain.  I hope this is a good preamp!  and remote works at wide angles.  10x or 19x gain means.. like 30x or 57db gain?  I'm probalby wrong I don't fully get voltage gain, current gain etc


----------



## DreamKing

uncola said:


> I just ordered the c2a 11th anniversary edition.  audiogd replied and said the gain setting affects rca preamp out too.  So I can use 10x or 19x gain.  I hope this is a good preamp!  and remote works at wide angles.  10x or 19x gain means.. like 30x or 57db gain?  I'm probalby wrong I don't fully get voltage gain, current gain etc


 
  
 They say the 'Preamp Output Level' (at max) is 10V RCA / 2.4mA for ACSS. It seems like the high gain output is what is 10V. It's nothing to worry about as long as your speaker amp's input sensitivity is lower than the output level on the C2.


----------



## LancerFIN

Darn. My trigger finger was itching today. Ended up ordering one or at least sent the email. Waiting for reply. Sold my NFB-15 after getting H10. Now I want preamp back.


----------



## elwappo99

lancerfin said:


> Darn. My trigger finger was itching today. Ended up ordering one or at least sent the email. Waiting for reply. Sold my NFB-15 after getting H10. Now I want preamp back.


 
  
 Is it because there's a 5% off sale?
  
 http://www.audio-gd.com/En%20audio-gd.htm


----------



## LancerFIN

elwappo99 said:


> Is it because there's a 5% off sale?
> 
> http://www.audio-gd.com/En%20audio-gd.htm


 
 Maybe


----------



## Kingwa

The preamp output max voltage level must higher than the power amp input sensitivity least +6DB , otherwise the dynamic and detail will reduce in practise .
 Nowdays most sources had the 2-2.5V RMS output already can drive the power amp to had the max power output, but a good preamp still can improve the sound quality and in fact there are a lot expensive preamp had popular in world.


----------



## dermott

darren700 said:


> I will post some impressions, very excited,  Im not sure which version they are, is there an easy way to check?


 

 You should have received a graph with your LCD2 that has the serial number and creation date on it. I don't remember what the serial number cutoff was for when they went to the fazor, but I know that mine was just before the change. I think I purchased mine in Nov of 2013 and that the creation date I had was in August of that year. I believe that the production of the fazor cans started around September of 2013, so if your graph has a date after that, then I think you have the fazor. You can always contact Audeze with your serial number and I'm sure they can tell you.


----------



## LancerFIN

kingwa said:


> The preamp output max voltage level must higher than the power amp input sensitivity least +6DB , otherwise the dynamic and detail will reduce in practise .
> Nowdays most sources had the 2-2.5V RMS output already can drive the power amp to had the max power output, but a good preamp still can improve the sound quality and in fact there are a lot expensive preamp had popular in world.


 
 Can you confirm the differences between NFB-1AMP and NFB-28 amp section? At the current price NFB-1AMP doesn't seem that great value if it's nearly the same as NFB-28 like someone said in this thread.
  
 edit: By value in mean in NFB-28/29 you get decent DAC just for extra $200 compared to NFB-1AMP/C-2.


----------



## Kingwa

The NFB1AMP is better than  the NFB28 built in amp but the sound quaity not much improve if connect to the NFB28.
 It need pair with a better DAC , may the NFB1DAC, the sound quality can had larger different to the NFb28 + NFB1AMP.


----------



## kaaooz

Which is better? NFB-1AMP or gustard h10?


----------



## elwappo99

kaaooz said:


> Which is better? NFB-1AMP or gustard h10?


 
  
 I don't think anyone has a NFB-1AMP on hand yet. Even when these units ship, the chances of someone having a Gustard on hand to compare is slim, so it might be awhile.


----------



## LancerFIN

elwappo99 said:


> I don't think anyone has a NFB-1AMP on hand yet. Even when these units ship, the chances of someone having a Gustard on hand to compare is slim, so it might be awhile.


 
 I know chances of someone having H10 and NFB-1AMP are 100% once mine arrives. But honestly I doubt I'll be able to describe the differences that well. I don't understand how some people hear those differences which they describe.
  
 Email said lead time 1 week. So if I am not mistaken that is 1 week + shipping totaling 2 weeks before I get it.


----------



## gto88

I am counting the days since I placed the order....
 I believe this amp is worth the wait.
  
@LancerFIN
 I too wonder how people can hear those details between devices.
 But, I do know many have sensitive hearing, such as my wife,
 she can hear desk top cable controller power supply humming while it is turned off.
 It took us several months to find out where the sound comes from, so we
 had to unplug it while not using it.
 And I cannot hear it all the time.


----------



## elwappo99

lancerfin said:


> elwappo99 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think anyone has a NFB-1AMP on hand yet. Even when these units ship, the chances of someone having a Gustard on hand to compare is slim, so it might be awhile.
> ...


 
  
 Can't wait to hear your impressions!


----------



## SodaBoy

Been obsessively checking the shipping list for my NFB-1AMP, and came across this today:
  

  
 The Master 11, essentially a Master 7 + Master 9 combo unit for the price of one at $1850. Insane deal, if this came out a few months earlier, I would be done with signal chain for a decade or more.
  
 Hope it gets its own thread, it's a crazy deal, but I'm dead broke now and the USD is too strong. Quality is becoming more affordable than ever, but it seems I always miss the train...


----------



## lukeap69

sodaboy said:


> Been obsessively checking the shipping list for my NFB-1AMP, and came across this today:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Had I know this was coming few months ago, I could have waited a little


----------



## LancerFIN

sodaboy said:


> Been obsessively checking the shipping list for my NFB-1AMP, and came across this today:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 wait what... If I sold my Gustard stack + the price of NFB-1AMP I would be quite close to the price of Master 11. Life is full of hard choices.


----------



## lukeap69

lancerfin said:


> wait what... If I sold my Gustard stack + the price of NFB-1AMP I would be quite close to the price of Master 11. Life is full of hard choices.




And if I were in your situation, I will get the Master 11 in a heartbeat!


----------



## LancerFIN

lukeap69 said:


> And if I were in your situation, I will get the Master 11 in a heartbeat!


 

 Already sent email about asking if upgrading my order to Master 11 would be possible but  I can pay the rest on July 15th. Eagerly waiting for response.


----------



## SodaBoy

Well I'm still happy with my Gustard stack, it was good value and I didn't overspend, neither did I overspend with the NFB-1AMP, so I'm in a very happy medium in terms of overall value. LancerFIN, you and I got similar stuff, I think we made the right buys overall given the circumstances. Like lukeap69, I probably would have thought of getting this if I knew about it a few months earlier though. The Master 11 looks pretty impressive to me overall, they have been able to achieve 20 bit performance with 2 DACs per channel. Unless you are a super TOTL guy, I would probably pick up the Master 11 over the Master 9, since you get like a 20 bit performance DAC for $300 extra. On the other hand, I wasn't too impressed by the DAC-19 at $800 but YMMV...
  
 Slightly OT, but I wished USB-32 supported 768khz input rates (or even higher in the future). With DAC set to NOS, you can move all oversampling to the PC at 16fs with much more computationally expensive filters, the sky is literally the limit. I know Phasure can do this, but Phasure is crazy expensive and I don't think anyone is beating Audio-GD in analog design.
  
 EDIT: @LancerFIN do upgrade to the Master 11. I haven't received a ship notification on my NFB-1AMP, so I don't think yours has shipped either. Take one for the team and I will have to live vicariously through you.


----------



## lukeap69

I've asked Kingwa if there was plan to make balanced version of DAC-19 before I purchased it. He said no. He is right. I would have appreciated if he gave me a hint that Master 11 was being cooked. That could have affected my decision. Having said that, I am very satisfied with my DAC-19. It gave my Lyr 3 a new life. To me the difference between it and NFB-1 DAC is very noticeable. YMMV of course.


----------



## SodaBoy

lukeap69 said:


> I've asked Kingwa if there was plan to make balanced version of DAC-19 before I purchased it. He said no. He is right. I would have appreciated if he gave me a hint that Master 11 was being cooked. That could have affected my decision. Having said that, I am very satisfied with my DAC-19. It gave my Lyr 3 a new life. To me the difference between it and NFB-1 DAC is very noticeable. YMMV of course.


 

 Artful dodge by Kingwa lol, technically he didn't BS anybody but the devil is in the details, and in this case, the omission. As for the DAC-19, I see a ton of positive impressions about it, so just be happy and know that you won't be alone in the club. There's always newer and better in the audio world, it's best to just settle down and focus on the music.


----------



## LancerFIN

I wonder what the price will be after the promo.


----------



## lukeap69

sodaboy said:


> Artful dodge by Kingwa lol, technically he didn't BS anybody but the devil is in the details, and in this case, the omission. As for the DAC-19, I see a ton of positive impressions about it, so just be happy and know that you won't be alone in the club. There's always newer and better in the audio world, it's best to just settle down and focus on the music.




True. I'm not the one to chase the best but something balanced between cost, quality and... yeah hype. LOL. I was really after a balanced DAC-19 to feed my Rok. Anyway, life is too short to contemplate of what could have been. I am enjoying DA -19 anyway. Especially acoustic songs...

PS - can we call Kingwa the Master Dodger? peace!


----------



## elwappo99

lancerfin said:


> sodaboy said:
> 
> 
> > Been obsessively checking the shipping list for my NFB-1AMP, and came across this today:
> ...


 
  
  
 Seems like an easy choice to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Kingwa was pretty quiet for a few months. Looks like he has been quite a busy gentleman behind the scenes with all these new units!


----------



## LancerFIN

Got quote for Master 11. 2000 euros is a lot of money. I wonder if improvement in sound quality will be big dissapointment. For 1700 euros I could buy pair of Genelec 8240's.


----------



## lukeap69

lancerfin said:


> Got quote for Master 11. 2000 euros is a lot of money. I wonder if improvement in sound quality will be big dissapointment. For 1700 euros I could buy pair of Genelec 8240's.


 
 If it sounds the way I think it does, I think it is a bargain to be honest.


----------



## LancerFIN

Hmm. Days of USB32 are numbered? I was offered new USB board for my Master-11 with lead time of 1 month. "Amanero combo384" That honestly says nothing to me. Maybe someone else knows if this is going to be better than what audio-gd is currently using.


----------



## borrego

lancerfin said:


> Hmm. Days of USB32 are numbered? I was offered new USB board for my Master-11 with lead time of 1 month. "Amanero combo384" That honestly says nothing to me. Maybe someone else knows if this is going to be better than what audio-gd is currently using.


 
  
 Amanero is definitely better than their old VIA. https://hifiduino.wordpress.com/2012/09/18/amanero-usb-i2s-interface/


----------



## LancerFIN

borrego said:


> Amanero is definitely better than their old VIA. https://hifiduino.wordpress.com/2012/09/18/amanero-usb-i2s-interface/


 
 Nice. So this means no longer VIA drivers. Better drivers, happier customers. I wonder if this new board is only for high end products.


----------



## darren700

lancerfin said:


> Hmm. Days of USB32 are numbered? I was offered new USB board for my Master-11 with lead time of 1 month. "Amanero combo384" That honestly says nothing to me. Maybe someone else knows if this is going to be better than what audio-gd is currently using.


 

 Amanero combo384 is a great board, well regarded in the DIY community. It is used in my Yulong DA8 and I have yet to have a single issue with any file. 24/48/96/192, DSD, DXD all work flawlessly.
 I wonder if Audio-GD will offer the board as an upgrade for previously purchased DAC's? I know I would upgrade my NFB-1DAC to the Amanero in a heartbeat if given the opportunity. The USB32 board has been pretty solid for me so far, the only issue I have had with it is it does not like the USB2.0 ports on my X58 Motherboard, USB 3.0 works perfect though.


----------



## lukeap69

I think that is the same upgrade for one headfier's DAC-19.


----------



## LancerFIN

darren700 said:


> The USB32 board has been pretty solid for me so far, the only issue I have had with it is I does not like the USB2.0 ports on my X58 Motherboard, USB 3.0 works perfect though.


 
 I had the same problem with NFB-15. Didn't work well with USB2 ports of my X58 motherboard. Had to use PCI-e USB3 card to get the USB to work.


----------



## SodaBoy

Privately I have always wondered why Audio-GD stayed with VIA when the whole market was going XMOS/Amanero. I have been hoping for an XMOS implementation due to wider compatibility and faster development, but I guess Amanero licensing fees are more affordable.
  
 If they are dumping VIA, maybe we can expect a major update to the DI-2014, the DI-2015 maybe? I'm also hoping they sort out their i2s and move to HDMI instead of staying with the RJ45, which I feel is either an anachronism or a way to lock out other USB converters. Either way, the move to Amanero is good news, I may end up with an Audio-GD DAC after all.


----------



## Kingwa

The Amanero had not SPDIF output so no way to had the decent external convertor.


----------



## SodaBoy

kingwa said:


> The Amanero had not SPDIF output so no way to had the decent external convertor.


 

 True, but I never mentioned using Amanero. This is more a question of, what will happen with the DI-2014? Without an update the Amanero will obsolete it.


----------



## gto88

Audio-gd starts shipping NFB-1AMP.


----------



## PiNa.cz

lukeap69 said:


> I think that is the same upgrade for one headfier's DAC-19.


 
  
 Good news: According to Mr. Kingwa, the Anamero module should be available for purchase in September. It will be possible to replace an old USB32 interface with Anamero board without any soldering.


----------



## lukeap69

pina.cz said:


> Good news: According to Mr. Kingwa, the Anamero module should be available for purchase in September. It will be possible to replace an old USB32 interface with Anamero board without any soldering.




Very good news!


----------



## PiNa.cz

lukeap69 said:


> I've asked Kingwa if there was plan to make balanced version of DAC-19 before I purchased it. He said no. He is right. I would have appreciated if he gave me a hint that Master 11 was being cooked. That could have affected my decision. Having said that, I am very satisfied with my DAC-19. It gave my Lyr 3 a new life. To me the difference between it and NFB-1 DAC is very noticeable. YMMV of course.



 

Well, Master 11 is kinda like "Reference 10.32 on technological steroids" with just slightly better SQ. And Reference 10.32 was available on the site for approx 3 years for the same price as Master 11.

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/Reference10/RE10EN.htm

Regarding DAC-19 and NFB-1DAC - could you describe your comparison of both please? I still have DAC19MKIII in the office (liked its "full sound" and it was a main reason why I bought Reference 10.32 two and half years ago) and I currently was thinking about getting NFB-1DAC and connect it via ACSS to Reference's AMP just to get another flavor of sound.


----------



## darren700

Just received notice that my NFB-1AMP has shipped! cant wait.


----------



## Beolab

About the spec of the NFB-1 AMP 

It claims 8 watt @ 40 Ohms , but ist that 8 watts per channel or total continues power for both channels ( 4 watt / channel) ? 

And does the NFB-1 AMP also got the jumper switch to make it warmer or + 6 db at the lover range option?


----------



## SodaBoy

beolab said:


> About the spec of the NFB-1 AMP
> 
> It claims 8 watt @ 40 Ohms , but ist that 8 watts per channel or total continues power for both channels ( 4 watt / channel) ?
> 
> And does the NFB-1 AMP also got the jumper switch to make it warmer or + 6 db at the lover range option?


 

 It's 8 watts per channel, I was wrong apparently. The NFB-1AMP does not have the warm jumper settings, of the amps listed only the C-2 does. I don't have any quantifiable info on the warm setting of the C-2 though, so I suspect the effect is subtle.


----------



## Currawong

My NFB-1AMP has arrived and out of the box the sound is pretty fantastic. I'm used to running in Audio-gd gear for 2 weeks first most of the time. I was most concerned if it would hold up the level of detail the Chord Hugo is capable of but it seems no concerns there at all.


----------



## lukeap69

currawong said:


> My NFB-1AMP has arrived and out of the box the sound is pretty fantastic. I'm used to running in Audio-gd gear for 2 weeks first most of the time. I was most concerned if it would hold up the level of detail the Chord Hugo is capable of but it seems no concerns there at all.




Nice. Will wait for your impressions? Which HP are you going to pair this with?


----------



## Currawong

lukeap69 said:


> currawong said:
> 
> 
> > My NFB-1AMP has arrived and out of the box the sound is pretty fantastic. I'm used to running in Audio-gd gear for 2 weeks first most of the time. I was most concerned if it would hold up the level of detail the Chord Hugo is capable of but it seems no concerns there at all.
> ...


 

 MrSpeakers Ethers, HD800s, HE1000s and LCD-X. 
  
 It's going to sit for a while in the living room system as a pre-amp while it has some hours put on it. There was plenty of the usual Audio-gd spacious, get-out-of-the-way-of-the-music signature. A brief A/B with my Studio Six had the big tube amp besting it for micro and macro dynamics, but considering the vast difference in prices the smaller amp wasn't at all put to shame. What was nice was how it delivered the bass with the Ethers, especially given how I've rolled warmer tubes into the Studio Six.


----------



## douce

I have a question for you gentleman, I just received my nfb-15 which I'm using as my HPA, DAC, and pre-amp to power an emotiva xpa-200 to some psb image b6's. Now that the nfb-3amp is available I'm considering getting that to use as my HPA and pre-amp and allow the nfb-15 dac to use its own psu, also to take advantage of the class-A and additional rca inputs. But I'm curious, will I really notice all that much in performance?


----------



## Stillhart

douce said:


> I have a question for you gentleman, I just received my nfb-15 which I'm using as my HPA, DAC, and pre-amp to power an emotiva xpa-200 to some psb image b6's. Now that the nfb-3amp is available I'm considering getting that to use as my HPA and pre-amp and allow the nfb-15 dac to use its own psu, also to take advantage of the class-A and additional rca inputs. But I'm curious, will I really notice all that much in performance?


 
  
 I haven't heard the NFB-3 so I can't really say.  But if I had to guess I'd say you probably won't notice a ton of improvement.  The amp in the NFB-15 is already pretty decent for the price (I found it to be extremely similar to my Matrix M-Stage at the time) and the NFB-3 is probably not a big step up.  
  
 the NFB-15 is a pretty damn good value for the money.  I have a lot of more expensive gear these days and I still really enjoy using it at work with my PM-3.


----------



## douce

I felt similar about the idea but worth asking, mostly it was to relieve the DAC from whatever current was drawn to run the preamp at higher volumes. I too enjoy the nfb-15, its been a GREAT little unit for the price.


----------



## Kingwa

In my experiences, except the some few AV power amp had mark the SUM power specs of the  all channels in total.
 The hi fi amps always mark the power specs of per channels.


----------



## SodaBoy

I just received my NFB-1AMP today here are my initial impressions of it with a Sonarworks calibrated HD650.
  
 Very holographic soundstage, excellent instrument separation. This is a very resolving amp, especially in the bass region where many amps struggle. The bass is textured, well extended and very clean even on bassy brickwalled tracks. The overall presentation is neutral and is very unfatiguing. I feel like I could listen to this amp for hours without ear strain. It's a quality that is hard to explain, but the lack of fatigue is due to how uncompressed everything sounds, like there is proper sense of space in the recordings instead of everything being crammed together. Very smooth presentation, no hint of harshness.
  
 On to more physical impressions, the unit itself is built like a tank with all metal construction and heavy as hell.
 In terms of design, the aesthetic is utilitarian but the build quality is definitely high.
  
 With the volume control, Audio-GD has listened to feedback and introduced a rotary encoder (volume knob) to control the relay attenuator. If you have been around long enough, you would know what I'm talking about with the old button volume control and all that. Implementing a volume knob makes the user interface a lot more intuitive and familiar, especially for people who are used to volume pots (AKA everyone). So now we get a relay volume control along with a rotary encoder, we can have our cake and eat it too.
  
 The relay volume control itself is noiseless on adjustment other than for a very soft click physically emanating from the relay itself (not part of the signal) which is completely inaudible during music. In contrast, typical brushed volume potentiometers become noisier with age, and the noise itself is passed onto the signal and increases proportionally with gain. Relay attenuators also have lower crosstalk and distortion along with near perfect channel balance, but since volume pots are cheap and turnkey they have become ubiquitous even in high end equipment, but I digress... Back on topic, the volume control steps are very granular, and I have fine control over the volume allowing comfortable listening levels on all music.
  
 And that sums up my thoughts for now...
  
 More impressions when my HD800 arrives, hopefully Monday with pictures of the whole setup. But damn, this amp impresses me.


----------



## gto88

mine is in house too.
 I use to listen to dr.dac2 dx, but it is no comparison to this amp.
 However, I am experiencing a problem of losing left or right channel once a while.
 I am using RCA connection from iFi iDSD nano to NFB-1AMP.
 I changed RCA cable, but both have same issue in 10, 15 min of listening.
  
 Any idea?


----------



## gto88

I am using dr.dac2 as DAC connecting to my NFB-1AMP, it seems no problem now.
 Is there such thing as dac-amp matching issue?
  
 EDIT: I figured it out - my iDSD is out of power at the time of connection.


----------



## Beolab

Have you connected your headphones through the 4 pin XLR or the 6,3 mm outlet? 

It could be something in the conversation from SE RCA input to 4 pin XLR maybe


----------



## SodaBoy

gto88 said:


> I am using dr.dac2 as DAC connecting to my NFB-1AMP, it seems no problem now.
> Is there such thing as dac-amp matching issue?


 

 No such issue should exist. Even if DAC was outputting below line level, you would not lose a channel. If polarity was inverted you would not lose a channel.
  
 Check that all connections are secure, including your headphone cables and interconnects. Check that all cables are functional. You have already tried different sets of RCA cables, the RCA cables can be safely ruled out. If all connections are secure, then the headphone cable itself may be damaged. Damage at the TRS/XLR jack or cup jacks can often cause intermittent sound drop out on one or both channels, depending on cable flex and electrical contact.
  
 In the future avoid double posting, it crowds up the thread. There is an edit button available to modify your previous post.


----------



## Beolab

SodaBoy: 

Have you tryed to go from SE RCA input and let the amp convert it to 4 pin XLR balanced output and it works flawless?


----------



## SodaBoy

beolab said:


> SodaBoy:
> 
> Have you tryed to go from SE RCA input and let the amp convert it to 4 pin XLR balanced output and it works flawless?


 
 No, because he has already tried the RCA out from his Dr.Dac2 and the NFB-1AMP was able to output stereo. The fact that he is getting both channels from the Dr.Dac2 means that the SE-BAL conversion on his NFB-1AMP is functioning properly, and that the problem lies elsewhere. It helps to go through the usual checklist, since the majority of electronic gremlins can be tracked down to faulty connections.


----------



## gto88

I figured it out after a good night sleep.
 My iFi iDSD dac is out of power!
 I used its battery all day yesterday in office, and when I connected it last night
 it is almost dried out.
 I am sorry about the false alarm, and thanks a lot for the suggestion.
 Everything is working fine.
  
 And I confirm that a good HP (LCD-X) need a good AMP, even the X is easy to drive.
 But with this AMP it sounds better, much better.
  
 All music I use to listen have come to live with this AMP.
  
 BTW, I use RCA from iDSD to NFB-1AMP, and connect the balanced cable to LCD-X.
 No problem at all.


----------



## SodaBoy

gto88 said:


> I figured it out after a good night sleep.
> My iFi iDSD dac is out of power!
> I used its battery all day yesterday in office, and when I connected it last night
> it is almost dried out.
> ...


 
 Good to hear that it's nothing serious.


----------



## Pirakaphile

I'm liking the short reviews so far. I might get the NFB-1 amp soon due to unexpected gift stuff. I'll just wait for a few more detailed impressions. Maybe I'll do a comparison between this guy and the Liquid Carbon.


----------



## lukeap69

pirakaphile said:


> I'm liking the short reviews so far. I might get the NFB-1 amp soon due to unexpected gift stuff. I'll just wait for a few more detailed impressions. Maybe I'll do a comparison between this guy and the Liquid Carbon.




That would be great. Cheers.


----------



## Beolab

I checked the NFB-1 AMP specs with Audio-GD and the answer was that it produces 
8 watt @ 40 Ohm per channel because it is a Balanced amp and build like a DUAL MONO with two separate amps into one casing.


----------



## Pirakaphile

beolab said:


> I checked the NFB-1 AMP specs with Audio-GD and the answer was that it produces
> 8 watt @ 40 Ohm per channel because it is a Balanced amp and build like a DUAL MONO with two separate amps into one casing.


 
 So you could pretty much use the HE-6 as a pair of speakers with this amp.  The Master-9 even has three balanced transformers, and their Master-3 amp is really just two mono amps in one case.


----------



## SodaBoy

beolab said:


> I checked the NFB-1 AMP specs with Audio-GD and the answer was that it produces
> 8 watt @ 40 Ohm per channel because it is a Balanced amp and build like a DUAL MONO with two separate amps into one casing.


 

 Keep in mind that the max rated power does not reflect maximum rated power within class A operation. Moreover, the NFB-1AMP in my opinion does not constitute a dual mono design as both channels share a common power supply. On the other hand, the Master-9 IS a dual mono design, and is rated to 9 watts within class A operation @ 40 ohms.
  
 All that being said, the C-2 and NFB-1AMP are top tier amps that can compete with amps twice or even thrice their price range.


----------



## Kingwa

Our products  mark the power output specs is for per channel .
 Keep the amp burn in, try the better power cables, least had a good printer power cable may help in sound quality.


----------



## Beolab

Thanks Kingwa! 

SodaBoy you can delete your last posting. 

Its 8 watt / channel


----------



## SodaBoy

Quote:


beolab said:


> Thanks Kingwa!
> 
> SodaBoy you can delete your last posting.
> 
> Its 8 watt / channel


 
 Oops. Can't delete it. Can edit though.
  


beolab said:


> I checked the NFB-1 AMP specs with Audio-GD and the answer was that it produces
> 8 watt @ 40 Ohm per channel *because it is a Balanced amp and build like a DUAL MONO with two separate amps into one casing*.


 
  
 So the NFB-1AMP pushes 8 watts max @ 40 ohm per channel, because it is balanced and built like a dual mono according to you. The C-2 is single ended, and it pushes 8 watts max @ 40 ohm per channel as well. Nothing to do with balanced or single ended.
  


kingwa said:


> Our products  mark the power output specs is for per channel .
> Keep the amp burn in, try the better power cables, least had a good printer power cable may help in sound quality.


 

 What is the "Headphone amp Output Power" under "Pure Class A" for the NFB-1AMP? It is not stated on the Audio-GD site. I and a few others have asked before and received no response. No headphone I use will ever pull it out of Class A, but since the measurements were taken within Class A conditions, shouldn't the "Pure Class A" rating be published?


----------



## uncola

I'm pretty sure you can assume it's the same as the c2


----------



## SodaBoy

uncola said:


> I'm pretty sure you can assume it's the same as the c2


 

 Can't say for sure. I just know that I have been asking about it since 4 weeks ago, and some other guy as well. If it was the same, I don't see why they wouldn't put it on the spec sheet other than to remain purposefully ambiguous. It's kinda like they want to imply that C-2 has more Class A power, without saying it outright. Either way, I'm not running a HE-6/Abyss/K1000 so I'm easily within the margin, but info is info.


----------



## LancerFIN

Is Master 11 true dual mono?


----------



## SodaBoy

lancerfin said:


> Is Master 11 true dual mono?


 

 I guess so, each channel has its own power supply, its own trafo. Digital side is separated with its own power supply as well. It doesn't really matter though, so long as it achieves its stated performance, the topology is no big deal for the consumer.


----------



## darren700

So I finally received my amp today!
 Got it all setup very quickly, feeding it balanced via Yulong DA8 and using the NFB1-Amp as a Balanced Pre-Amp for my B22.
 Build quality of the amp is the quality build I have come to expect from Audio-GD. very solid case with excellent fit and finish, smooth rads, great machining. smooth rotating volume control, nice blue display. Neutrik connectors, More inputs and outputs than I will ever use, What more could I ask for?
  
 Right away I was scared ****less because the remote didnt work, but I opened it up and it had no batteries. Popped batteries in and it worked perfect. Note that is the smaller SA-31 remote on the right in the pictures. As you can see they have changed the design of the remote. The new design is nice, a little bit heavier due to its increase in size. I am going to be using this as my preamp in my 2-Channel Speaker setup in the near future so the remote is an extremely important feature to me. The remote feels very solid in the hands, and the build quality is top notch, it is machined of one solid piece of aluminum! I am a machinist by trade and I can tell it was made with a lot of care and attention to detail. It is not gonna break now matter how many times its dropped.
 Note that each volume level change on the remote requires a click of the button. Holding the button down only ups the volume one level. (Ie. You have to press a ton of times to go up the whole volume range) A slight downfall but I can deal with it.
  
 I had issues with my SA-31 Remote interfering with my Marantz receiver in the past, changing the volume on the Marantz in addition to the SA-31. Therefore I requested a different remote frequency to be programmed into my NFB-1AMP, but it looks like King-wa was kind enough to send me a whole extra remote board with my amp! I would assume that it has a second frequency to try if I have the interference issue again. Now that is customer service!
  
 I love the return of the big silver volume knob! I have to say its my favorite part of the amp. I hate the buttons on my SA-31, takes way to long to adjust the volume through the whole range. With the rotary knob it only takes 3 seconds to adjust the whole range thanks to the exponential volume. The rotary knob is so nice and smooth, and you can feel each volume graduation step but not hear it from the knob. But you do hear the relays changing inside the amp, which I like personally.
 One other thing I noticed, on my SA-31 when I turn it on, it flashes and gives me the option to restore the last volume level by hitting volume up. Unfortunately on the NFB-1AMP the volume is reset to 00 each time you turn it on. This means that in a speaker setup you have to hit the volume up button 30 times to get to a previous volume level of 30.
  
 Listening on my LCD2v2’s right now and I love it so far! Very preliminary impressions but Sounds extremely detailed and balanced. Enjoy the pics.


----------



## Beolab

Very nice! Thanks for the pics! 

What are your first impressions on the Dynamic range, and lower end base / upper midrange?


----------



## darren700

beolab said:


> Very nice! Thanks for the pics!
> 
> What are your first impressions on the Dynamic range, and lower end base / upper midrange?


 
  
 Dynamic range seems great so far, also tons of power. can drive the LCD2v2 to levels I wouldn't dare go. 35/63 on high gain is the loudest I would listen at ever and that's pretty damn loud.
 Bass seems great, good quantity, not emphasized, and great slam with my LCD2.  Hard for me to comment on the mid-range this early, but seems very smooth.
 I think this is a very neutral amp overall, that seems to be King-Wa's goal. (keep in mind the impressions are PRELIMINARY, i've only had the amp 2 hours).
  
 edit: just got shivers listening to Matthew Good - House of Smoke and Mirrors, sounds that good.


----------



## SodaBoy

@darren700 You have a ton of Audio-GD stuff lol, and that's an old school C-2, you remember what year model it was?


----------



## darren700

sodaboy said:


> @darren700 You have a ton of Audio-GD stuff lol, and that's an old school C-2, you remember what year model it was?


 
  
 Yes I do like my Audio-GD!
 Its actually a Very Rare C-2SA, not sure of the year. I also have a NFB-1DAC in the living room, which the NFB-1AMP will be paired with for 2 channel speakers eventually.


----------



## LancerFIN

NFB-1AMP just for preamp? Though good preamps are expensive. 

Hopefully I'll get my Master-11 in 3 weeks. Then I need some active speakers and my set is complete.


----------



## darren700

lancerfin said:


> NFB-1AMP just for preamp? Though good preamps are expensive.
> 
> Hopefully I'll get my Master-11 in 3 weeks. Then I need some active speakers and my set is complete.


 
  
 Haha yes, but some headphone listening thrown in. I plan to make a 10 ft long 4pin Balanced extension cable to use with my headphones.
  
 Try finding a balanced pre-amp with remote for the price of the NFB-1AMP, you probably wont have any luck, at least I didn't. That's why as soon as I saw the NFB-1AMP for pre-order I had to have one.
 I had planned on saving for a Master 1 or Master 9 to use as a pre-amp, but with the release of the NFB-1AMP for half the price based on the same design it just seemed like a no-brainer.


----------



## GioF71

Hello darren700, you have a pretty nice listening station, showing some of the devices I appreciate more!
  
 No criticism intended, just a question: why are you using a preamp for the B22? I thought this device has it own volume control, do you think a dedicated preamp is better, or is the knob I see in your photos just a source selector?
  
 Thanks a lot!
  
 Quote:


darren700 said:


> So I finally received my amp today!
> Got it all setup very quickly, feeding it balanced via Yulong DA8 and using the NFB1-Amp as a Balanced Pre-Amp for my B22.
> Build quality of the amp is the quality build I have come to expect from Audio-GD. very solid case with excellent fit and finish, smooth rads, great machining. smooth rotating volume control, nice blue display. Neutrik connectors, More inputs and outputs than I will ever use, What more could I ask for?
> 
> ....


----------



## darren700

giof71 said:


> Hello darren700, you have a pretty nice listening station, showing some of the devices I appreciate more!
> 
> No criticism intended, just a question: why are you using a preamp for the B22? I thought this device has it own volume control, do you think a dedicated preamp is better, or is the knob I see in your photos just a source selector?
> 
> Thanks a lot!


 
  
 Thanks. My Yulong DA8 only has one set of Balanced outputs and one set of RCA outputs. Both the B22 and NFB-1AMP can act as a balanced pre-amp. The B22 does in-fact have a Goldpoint attenuator for volume control.  I decided to hook the NFB-1AMP right to the DA-8 via Balanced and then used balanced from the NFB-1AMP to the B22 to test the pre-amp function of the NFB-1AMP. It will not be setup like this permanently, as I said earlier the NFB-1AMP will be moved to my living room setup after burn in and testing. The RCA outputs of my DA8 are feeding my SA-31, which is being used as a preamp for the C2-SA


----------



## GioF71

darren700 said:


> Thanks. My Yulong DA8 only has one set of Balanced outputs and one set of RCA outputs. Both the B22 and NFB-1AMP can act as a balanced pre-amp. The B22 does in-fact have a Goldpoint attenuator for volume control.  I decided to hook the NFB-1AMP right to the DA-8 via Balanced and then used balanced from the NFB-1AMP to the B22 to test the pre-amp function of the NFB-1AMP. It will not be setup like this permanently, as I said earlier the NFB-1AMP will be moved to my living room setup after burn in and testing. The RCA outputs of my DA8 are feeding my SA-31, which is being used as a preamp for the C2-SA


 

 OK thanks!
 Did you build the B22 yourself?


----------



## darren700

giof71 said:


> OK thanks!
> Did you build the B22 yourself?


 
  
 Haha no I wish. I was lucky enough to pick it up used for a steal at $1250 cdn (like $1000 us)


----------



## LancerFIN

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/Amanero/AmaneroEN.htm

So Amanero is available for $90


----------



## Beolab

darren700 said:


> Dynamic range seems great so far, also tons of power. can drive the LCD2v2 to levels I wouldn't dare go. 35/63 on high gain is the loudest I would listen at ever and that's pretty damn loud.
> Bass seems great, good quantity, not emphasized, and great slam with my LCD2.  Hard for me to comment on the mid-range this early, but seems very smooth.
> I think this is a very neutral amp overall, that seems to be King-Wa's goal. (keep in mind the impressions are PRELIMINARY, i've only had the amp 2 hours).
> 
> edit: just got shivers listening to Matthew Good - House of Smoke and Mirrors, sounds that good.


 
  
 Sounds promising! Cant wait for my AMP to arrive in late July, and have a shoot-out btw the NFB-1 and the Liquid Carbon, i think the NFB-1 are going drive circles around the LC =)
  
 How does the volume wheel feel, is it heavy or light in the movement ?
 I also ordered a remote for my AMP. 
 The new remote are the left  in your picture or to the right ?
 The right one looks a little bit nicer i think.
  
 Can´t wait for a more ingoing review on the NFB-1 AMP, because when i listened to the SimAudio Moon 430 neo i felt it did lack in dynamic range and had a very dull sound, so i hope the sound in the NFB-1 are more dynamic with greater bas and midrange than the Moon.


----------



## darren700

beolab said:


> Sounds promising! Cant wait for my AMP to arrive in late July, and have a shootout btw the NFB-1 and the Liquid Carbon, i think the NFB-1 are going drive circles around the LC =)
> 
> How does the volume wheel feel, is it heavy or light in the movement ?
> I also ordered a remote for my AMP.
> ...


 
  
 Volume control is very light in movement, very little resistance. similar to the feel of the knob on my Yulong DA8. Nothing like the strong resistance I feel on my B22 with the stepped goldpoint attenuator.
 The NFB-1AMP remote is the larger one on the left. the right one feels a bit better in the hand, but the volume control buttons are a lot smaller. However overall I prefer the smaller SA-31 remote I think.
 Interested to hear about how it compares with the Liquid Carbon.


----------



## Beolab

darren700 said:


> Volume control is very light in movement, very little resistance. similar to the feel of the knob on my Yulong DA8. Nothing like the strong resistance I feel on my B22 with the stepped goldpoint attenuator.
> The NFB-1AMP remote is the larger one on the left. the right one feels a bit better in the hand, but the volume control buttons are a lot smaller. However overall I prefer the smaller SA-31 remote I think.
> Interested to hear about how it compares with the Liquid Carbon.


 
  
 Okey, sounds good!
 Absolutley i will post my impressions in the shoot out =)
  
 But don't the SA-31 Remote work with the NFB-1 AMP or don't Audio-GD make them any more?


----------



## darren700

beolab said:


> Okey, sounds good!
> Absolutley i will post my impressions in the shoot out =)
> 
> But don't the SA-31 Remote work with the NFB-1 AMP or don't Audio-GD make them any more?


 
  
 The SA-31 remote does not work on the NFB-1AMP, but that may be because I specifically asked for a different frequency when ordering.
 I assume you could ask for the older remote when you order.


----------



## Beolab

darren700 said:


> The SA-31 remote does not work on the NFB-1AMP, but that may be because I specifically asked for a different frequency when ordering.
> I assume you could ask for the older remote when you order.


 
  
 Okey, but it don't work with the NFB-1 Amp?
  
 Then i have no use for it =)


----------



## darren700

beolab said:


> Okey, but it don't work with the NFB-1 Amp?
> 
> Then i have no use for it =)


 

  No the SA-31 remote does not work with my NFB-1AMP. I would rather it work that way so the two do not interfere with each other.


----------



## Beolab

kingwa said:


> In my experiences, except the some few AV power amp had mark the SUM power specs of the  all channels in total.
> The hi fi amps always mark the power specs of per channels.




Kingwa can you tell us up to how many watts does the NFB-1 AMP play in pure CLASS-A ?


----------



## Kingwa

beolab said:


> Kingwa can you tell us up to how many watts does the NFB-1 AMP play in pure CLASS-A ?


 
 It is over 2000mW @ 40 ohm /per channels.


----------



## Pirakaphile

kingwa said:


> It is over 2000mW @ 40 ohm /per channels.



Same specs as the C-2 I'm gonna guess. But still, just under 2 watts into 50 ohms would be good enough to listen to the HE-6 upto 90 something decibels. Pretty good amp I say!


----------



## Beolab

Thanks Kingwa! 

Like 2,25 watt @ 40 Ohm or something then! 

Perfekt


----------



## SodaBoy

Following darren's example, here's a photo of my setup:
  

  
 Low quality cellphone pic, but it shows the "7 second display off feature". If no button/knob is moved, after 7 seconds the display reverts to the simple blue dash seen above.


----------



## GioF71

sodaboy said:


> Following darren's example, here's a photo of my setup:
> 
> 
> 
> Low quality cellphone pic, but it shows the "7 second display off feature". If no button/knob is moved, after 7 seconds the display reverts to the simple blue dash seen above.


 
  
 Nice stack!
 I have the Gustard stack: http://www.head-fi.org/t/735828/gustard-h10-high-current-discrete-class-a-output-stage-headphone-amplifier/1770#post_11601481
 If I understood correctly from your older posts, it seems you have/had the Gustard H10 too.
 If this is true, would you like to share your impressions about the comparison between the two amps?
  
 Thanks a lot!


----------



## lukeap69

Good question


----------



## GioF71

lukeap69 said:


> Good question


 
  
 Of course the two amps are very different...
 But I am asking because I am considering the same upgrade path


----------



## SodaBoy

Sorry Gio, never owned the H10, but I came very close to getting one though. LancerFIN was actually going to do a H10/NFB-1AMP comparo, but he upgraded to the Master 11. I can tell you that the X12/NFB-1AMP pairing plays well together though, and the whole setup including U12 cost less than $1200 MSRP, so good value too.


----------



## LancerFIN

Really hope that R2R lives up to the hype. There probably isn't much difference between NFB-1AMP and Master-11's amp in sound quality.


----------



## GioF71

sodaboy said:


> Sorry Gio, never owned the H10, but I came very close to getting one though. LancerFIN was actually going to do a H10/NFB-1AMP comparo, but he upgraded to the Master 11. I can tell you that the X12/NFB-1AMP pairing plays well together though, and the whole setup including U12 cost less than $1200 MSRP, so good value too.


 
  
 Ops, so I must have confused some posts!
 Thanks for your impression for your stack, very helpful


----------



## darren700

sodaboy said:


> Following darren's example, here's a photo of my setup:
> 
> 
> 
> Low quality cellphone pic, but it shows the "7 second display off feature". If no button/knob is moved, after 7 seconds the display reverts to the simple blue dash seen above.


 
  
 Looks great! I still havent tried that display off feature. Mine has been on burning in for the last 3 days straight..


----------



## Beolab

When you say burning, are you playing music through it or just have it powered on?


----------



## darren700

beolab said:


> When you say burning, are you playing music through it or just have it powered on?


 
  
 CD player playing music into it on repeat, powering LCD2's. so yes music is playing.


----------



## DreamKing

.


----------



## bloomphoto

Sodaboy, I got the NFB-1amp and have not figured out how the display off works. Is it supposed to automatically go off upon power up if no buttons are touched? If so, mine doesn't do that.
Outside of that it is functioning flawlessly and sounds wonderful both as a headphone amp with balanced Hifiman HE 400is and as a preamp. For now I am using my Pono player in balanced mode as a source but I am waiting for my Geek Wave xd128 to use as a source eventually ( when LH Labs finally delivers them).


----------



## LancerFIN

bloomphoto said:


> Sodaboy, I got the NFB-1amp and have not figured out how the display off works. Is it supposed to automatically go off upon power up if no buttons are touched? If so, mine doesn't do that.
> Outside of that it is functioning flawlessly and sounds wonderful both as a headphone amp with balanced Hifiman HE 400is and as a preamp. For now I am using my Pono player in balanced mode as a source but I am waiting for my Geek Wave xd128 to use as a source eventually ( when LH Labs finally delivers them).


 
 Did you choose to have the display off function when you placed your order? It's custom option. Doesn't come as standard.


----------



## SodaBoy

Bloomphoto, I requested the 7 sec display off option when I placed the order as a custom option (as LancerFIN has said). It was a free option, but I don't know if it can be set by user outside of factory.


----------



## bloomphoto

Ah, so that's it! Thank you SodaBoy and LancerFIN. No, I did not realize that was a custom option so didn't order it. Would be nice to have. I know there are a number of jumper settings that can be changed but don't know if that would be one or it is a firmwear thing. 
 I'll ping AG and ask. If it is too late, no big deal.


----------



## LancerFIN

I wonder if I want the display off function or not. I haven't selected it yet. I usually use black electrical tape over disturbing lights.


----------



## bloomphoto

From Kingwa, "The display auto dark must replace the MCU, its price is USD5 exclude shipping cost."


----------



## LancerFIN

@Kingwa
  
 Is the micro-controller on a socket or soldered directly? If I could order with both MCU's and change them as I please without soldering that would be nice.


----------



## bloomphoto

Good question. I sent an email to Audio-gd asking. I will post their response.


----------



## bloomphoto

Looks like it is plug and play. Pull out the old controller and pop in the new one.
 Kingwa sent this photo. Controller goes in the red box.


----------



## Robert777

I am currently trying to decide between the SA-31SE and the C2 (11th Anniversary) amps.
 The 31SE is slightly cheaper for me but the newer C2 with the volume control knob is very tempting.
  
 Does anyone who has heard both amps have anything that could illuminate my decision?
  
 The plan is to use the amp to drive a pair of Ether's, which I will have to save up for.
 I was so close to pulling the trigger on the much cheaper HE-6's but I am a little too worried about build quality issues.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## borrego

robert777 said:


> I am currently trying to decide between the SA-31SE and the C2 (11th Anniversary) amps.
> The 31SE is slightly cheaper for me but the newer C2 with the volume control knob is very tempting.
> 
> Does anyone who has heard both amps have anything that could illuminate my decision?
> ...


 
  
 I would suggest getting the SA-31SE. Its sound is more dynamic and shall suit the Ether better. C2 + Ether might sound a bit too flat for some people. C2 is half a Master 9. In the Master 9 thread, some people find it a bit flat sounding.
  
 The SA-31SE has been discontinued and Kingwa is not likely to make any more SA amp. I would say get the SA-31SE while still you can. The C2 is always available. So worst case you can sell the SA-31 later and get the C2.
  
 Back then when the SA-31SE was still in production, it was selling for USD40 more than the C2's current price.


----------



## Beolab

kingwa said:


> It is over 2000mW @ 40 ohm /per channels.




Thanks! 

Whats the max current power for the NFB-1 vs Master 9 amp? 

And is it a noticeable difference in Dynamic reserve btw the NFB-1 and Master 8 / 9 ?


----------



## Robert777

borrego said:


> I would suggest getting the SA-31SE. Its sound is more dynamic and shall suit the Ether better. C2 + Ether might sound a bit too flat for some people. C2 is half a Master 9. In the Master 9 thread, some people find it a bit flat sounding.
> 
> The SA-31SE has been discontinued and Kingwa is not likely to make any more SA amp. I would say get the SA-31SE while still you can. The C2 is always available. So worst case you can sell the SA-31 later and get the C2.
> 
> Back then when the SA-31SE was still in production, it was selling for USD40 more than the C2's current price.


 
 Thank you @borrego for your advice.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Beolab

*Quest for a Review*


Could someone wright a small mini review on the NFB-1 AMP of the characteristics if it have good dynamic reserve and fine detailed sound vs other high powered amps like Cavalli Crimson / Gold, HiFiMan 1000 Amp, Audio-GD Master 9, if someone know, it would be very interesting to read about!


----------



## lukeap69

I know Amos has one. I hope he does a review with comparison with other amps including LC.


----------



## Solude

lukeap69 said:


> I know Amos has one.


 
  
 Could probably compare it to the 10ES2 he had once upon a time too.


----------



## lukeap69

solude said:


> Could probably compare it to the 10ES2 he had once upon a time too.


 
 That would be great if he did.


----------



## Beolab

lukeap69 said:


> That would be great if he did.




 bring it to us!!


----------



## Stillhart

I suspect @Currawong will be more likely to answer your request if you tag him so he knows you're talking about him.


----------



## Currawong

I still have the 10ES2. Purely on comparisons from before, the NFB1AMP has better clarity. The 10ES2 doesn't have analogue inputs, so the limitation includes the DAC. I had the NFB1AMP running from the Hugo, which is obviously a better DAC. 
  
 What I'd like to try is one of Kingwa's newer ES9018 DACs using iZotope to up-sample to 384k through the new USB input. The default Sabre filters are pretty average and iZotope made a significant difference with the Aurender Flow when I tried it so I can't help wondering if the same results are possible with the Audio-gd DACs. I've pointed this out to Kingwa already.
  
 What would have been interesting is to compare the NFB1AMP to my old Phoenix. I wouldn't be surprised if they were fairly close in performance. While I haven't tried the Master 8 or Master 9, usually the bigger models have more space and clarity, unless Kingwa decides to fiddle with the tuning. The original C2C had a bit of colouration for example, in a good way though.


----------



## i019791

currawong said:


> I still have the 10ES2. Purely on comparisons from before, the NFB1AMP has better clarity. The 10ES2 doesn't have analogue inputs, so the limitation includes the DAC. I had the NFB1AMP running from the Hugo, which is obviously a better DAC.


 
 10ES2 (dac) -> NFB1AMP versus 10ES2 could be more like an apples to apples comparison


----------



## Beolab

currawong said:


> I still have the 10ES2. Purely on comparisons from before, the NFB1AMP has better clarity. The 10ES2 doesn't have analogue inputs, so the limitation includes the DAC. I had the NFB1AMP running from the Hugo, which is obviously a better DAC.
> 
> What I'd like to try is one of Kingwa's newer ES9018 DACs using iZotope to up-sample to 384k through the new USB input. The default Sabre filters are pretty average and iZotope made a significant difference with the Aurender Flow when I tried it so I can't help wondering if the same results are possible with the Audio-gd DACs. I've pointed this out to Kingwa already.
> 
> What would have been interesting is to compare the NFB1AMP to my old Phoenix. I wouldn't be surprised if they were fairly close in performance. While I haven't tried the Master 8 or Master 9, usually the bigger models have more space and clarity, unless Kingwa decides to fiddle with the tuning. The original C2C had a bit of colouration for example, in a good way though.




Interesting! 

I also have the Hugo to pair with the NFB-1 amp when i get it in a few weeks from now. 

So if you compare the NFB-1 AMP with Violelectric, Moon, Cavalli, and other high powered amps you have heard, is it then just a slight performance improvement up to the big boys or what are your thaughts ?


----------



## Currawong

beolab said:


> So if you compare the NFB-1 AMP with Violelectric, Moon, Cavalli, and other high powered amps you have heard, is it then just a slight performance improvement up to the big boys or what are your thaughts ?


 

 I can't compare with amps from those brands as I don't have any here from them. Sorry.
  
 That being said, there is a "Law of Diminishing Returns" whereby the improvement as you spend more money goes down dramatically, along with the requirement for better-quality recordings to appreciate the improvements. When you add dealer margins and advertising that many companies spend money on, the smaller companies that don't have to up the price to account for those things, like Audio-gd and Schitt Audio will always deliver the best bang-for-the-buck.


----------



## Beolab

currawong said:


> I can't compare with amps from those brands as I don't have any here from them. Sorry.
> 
> That being said, there is a "Law of Diminishing Returns" whereby the improvement as you spend more money goes down dramatically, along with the requirement for better-quality recordings to appreciate the improvements. When you add dealer margins and advertising that many companies spend money on, the smaller companies that don't have to up the price to account for those things, like Audio-gd and Schitt Audio will always deliver the best bang-for-the-buck.




Yes, im well aware of the small improvment on high end products, but my question where if you had a moment to wright a small review of the sound, dynamic reserv, detail, low end bass and if it have a low noisefloor etc? 

Then when i asked if you could compared it with more expensive amps, where just examples on how the NFB-1 Amp hold up against other (not Audio-GD) more pricy HeadphoneAMP's on the market? 


Best regards


----------



## MattTCG

subbed...for the nfb1amp. May cancel my carbon pre-order for this amp.


----------



## lukeap69

matttcg said:


> subbed...for the nfb1amp. May cancel my carbon pre-order for this amp.




Why is that, Matt?


----------



## Stillhart

If you don't need the transportability and aren't sold on the Cavalli house sound, the NFB-1AMP is a very decent competitor in the same price range.  I'd say a nice back to back comparison is in order.  Matt should get both!


----------



## lukeap69

stillhart said:


> If you don't need the transportability and aren't sold on the Cavalli house sound, the NFB-1AMP is a very decent competitor in the same price range.  I'd say a nice back to back comparison is in order.  Matt should get both!




Thanks!

I thought you are getting both Stillhart?


----------



## Stillhart

lukeap69 said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I thought you are getting both Stillhart?


 
  
 I'm pretty happy with the LC right now.  It's possible I'll get my hands on an NFB-1AMP at some point for some comparisons, but I'm in no rush.


----------



## lukeap69

stillhart said:


> I'm pretty happy with the LC right now.  It's possible I'll get my hands on an NFB-1AMP at some point for some comparisons, but I'm in no rush.




Alright. So it's Matt then...


----------



## MattTCG

lukeap69 said:


> Why is that, Matt?


 
  
  


stillhart said:


> If you don't need the transportability and aren't sold on the Cavalli house sound, the NFB-1AMP is a very decent competitor in the same price range.  I'd say a nice back to back comparison is in order.  Matt should get both!


 
  
 This is pretty much the reason. I don't need the reason. Transportable is really not of much importance to me. Actually I full sized desktop amp would be more useful to me now. Finally, last night I got news of a nice endorsement from KG who was impressed with the NFB1amp.


----------



## Pirakaphile

stillhart said:


> I'm pretty happy with the LC right now.  It's possible I'll get my hands on an NFB-1AMP at some point for some comparisons, but I'm in no rush.



Same here, I might get the NFB-1AMP to compare and use as a preamp if it ends up enticing me away from the possibility of Schiit passive preamps.


----------



## GioF71

Hello, can anyone comment about how a NFB-1 AMP (or some older balanced audio-gd amps in the same price range) compares to a balanced Beta 22 amplifier?
  
 Thanks


----------



## gto88

beolab said:


> Kingwa can you tell us up to how many watts does the NFB-1 AMP play in pure CLASS-A ?


 
  


kingwa said:


> It is over 2000mW @ 40 ohm /per channels.


 
  
 I am confused about these statements.
 2w@40 ohm/per channel for pure class A.
 And how does this related to 8000mw @ 40 ohm in the spec? not pure class A, then what is it?
  
 Why there are twi different spec here?
  


beolab said:


> Thanks Kingwa!
> 
> Like 2,25 watt @ 40 Ohm or something then!
> 
> Perfekt


 
 How is this mapped from?
  
 How can an AMP play in class A and non-class A in different output power?
 Please kindly educate me.


----------



## LancerFIN

@gto88 Rest of the power is drawn in A/B if I am not mistaken. My uneducated guess is it's more expensive to make full class A products. Master 11 and Master 9 are full class A.


----------



## DreamKing

And A/B can in a lot of cases be as good (if not, better in instances other than audio-gd). Doesn't necessarily mean technically _worse _and when there are differences, they're likely negligible or inaudible if the amp isn't already crap (e.g: noticeable deterioration in A/B operation). 
 http://sound.westhost.com/class-a.htm


----------



## Beolab

It is plaing in pure Class A and then after aprox 2.25 watts of output it switch over to Class B up to 8 watts @ 40 Ohms. 

And Master 9 and 11 are not pure Class A either, but they play i pure Class A to about 6 watts @ 40 Ohms, so its a little difference.


----------



## Solude

Yep class A refers to the power applied to the output all the time versus the power it can put out when asked.  Think of it as an engine idle.  Most cars are biased into class A at roughly 1000RPM but can reach 7000RPM, class B.  In the case of amps that are highly biased into class A that same car would idle at 5000RPM.  Make sense?
  
 And no there isn't an amp in existence that sounds or measures better when it drops into class B.  When you drop out of class A distortion goes up and the bottom half of wave forms get cut off.  Luckily speakers can't stop on a dime so the whole form happens but the pull is mechanical and not electrical.  Nelson Pass has a white paper on it that is worth reading.
  
 How can you tell when an amp is heavily biased?  It'll run hot.  Class A headphone amps are quite warm, 50C, and heatsink fins on class A speaker amps will cut through skin like a hot knife through butter, handle with care :O


----------



## DreamKing

I'm pretty sure their amps drop to A/B and not B. In fact, I've never heard of any audio device in class-B.


----------



## Solude

Class AB is what we call amps that are biased in Class A up to a certain current draw before dropping to B for the rest.  Pure Class B amps, meaning no bias at all, are rare.  Here is the article.
  
 https://passlabs.com/articles/leaving-class-a


----------



## DreamKing

I see well in any case when I meant _better_, I just meant certain class AB amps will be just as good if not better than many class A amps, and vice-versa. Too many assume class-A will always be better when it's really only on paper. I agree that that is not the case when amps like audio-gd's drop to A/B.


----------



## Solude

Absolutely.  ****ty class AB amp is still ****ty when class A.  Also ****ty single ended amp is still ****ty when balanced.


----------



## gto88

solude said:


> Yep class A refers to the power applied to the output all the time versus the power it can put out when asked.  Think of it as an engine idle.  Most cars are biased into class A at roughly 1000RPM but can reach 7000RPM, class B.  In the case of amps that are highly biased into class A that same car would idle at 5000RPM.  Make sense?
> 
> And no there isn't an amp in existence that sounds or measures better when it drops into class B.  When you drop out of class A distortion goes up and the bottom half of wave forms get cut off.  Luckily speakers can't stop on a dime so the whole form happens but the pull is mechanical and not electrical.  Nelson Pass has a white paper on it that is worth reading.
> 
> How can you tell when an amp is heavily biased?  It'll run hot.  Class A headphone amps are quite warm, 50C, and heatsink fins on class A speaker amps will cut through skin like a hot knife through butter, handle with care :O


 

 You answered my next question, how can I know that my amp is playing at class-A.
 However, I listen to this NFB-1AMP for 3 to 4 hours at night, it only gets warm, not hot at all.
 I set it to high gain and turned it up to 25, using balanced out to lcd-x.
  
 What does this tell?
  
 BTW, thanks you all for the information.


----------



## Solude

Gain doesn't change class A bias and in the case of the NFB it's a high ramp to the volume not a gain change but that's besides the point.
  
 Two things, a class A amp won't get hotter by using it since it's running all out all the time and class A or not it takes time to heat the case.  Leaving the amp on for 24 hours will tell you what it's final temperature is.
  
 As for what it tells me... you listen pretty quietly


----------



## Beolab

gto88 said:


> You answered my next question, how can I know that my amp is playing at class-A.
> However, I listen to this NFB-1AMP for 3 to 4 hours at night, it only gets warm, not hot at all.
> I set it to high gain and turned it up to 25, using balanced out to lcd-x.
> 
> ...




Its depending on the sensitivity of the Headphones you have connected of how long up in the volume steps its in Class A mode. 

So if the NFB-1 Amp have 2,25 watts of Class A out of a total of 8 watts @ 40 Ohms, then when if the volume steps are 1-100 you are in Class A mod btw volume 1-30 depending on the dynamic demand from the music you are playing.

PS what headphones are you using with the NFB-1 AMP, and are you pleased with the sound and dynamic reserve and power it deliver?


----------



## gto88

@Beolab
 I use Audeze LCD-X.  It sounds really good to me.
 I am trying to get the most out of the NFB-1AMP, so the questions.
  
 Thank you for the explanation, that quite some information.


----------



## SodaBoy

solude said:


> Gain doesn't change class A bias and in the case of the NFB it's a high ramp to the volume not a gain change but that's besides the point.
> 
> Two things, a class A amp won't get hotter by using it since it's running all out all the time and class A or not it takes time to heat the case.  Leaving the amp on for 24 hours will tell you what it's final temperature is.
> 
> As for what it tells me... you listen pretty quietly


 

 Hell, many Class A amps even run hottest at idle as the case has to sink all the heat from the quiescent current.


----------



## Beolab

Does anyone know if the NFB-1 or in general if Audio-GD amps are using a phase splitter like (Cavalli Audio Liquid Carbon) for the SE unbalanced RCA input or do i need to go in through the XLR input on the NFB-1 to not loose any SQ ? 
I have a Chord Hugo DAC with just RCA out, so i can go from RCA out - RCA in or RCA out -XLR in cable, does someone know if its any degree in the SQ if i go RCA-RCA vs RCA-XLR ?


----------



## DreamKing

You need a complete balanced system to reap the relative benefits (headphone recabled to balanced, balanced dac, balanced amp). There's no point in getting the NFB-1 over a single-ended amp like the C2 if you don't have a balanced system, like audio-gd states C2 would be preferred for single-ended operation.


----------



## Beolab

dreamking said:


> You need a complete balanced system to reap the relative benefits (headphone recabled to balanced, balanced dac, balanced amp). There's no point in getting the NFB-1 over a single-ended amp like the C2 if you don't have a balanced system, like audio-gd states C2 would be preferred for single-ended operation.




Yes my Abyss are true balanced its just my Chord Hugo that is not balanced, so my question is if the NFB-1 have phase splitter for the SE input or not? 

Or if its more sutiable to go RCA out from the Hugo to XLR input on the NFB-1 ?


----------



## Solude

beolab said:


> Does anyone know if the NFB-1 or in general if Audio-GD amps are using a phase splitter like (Cavalli Audio Liquid Carbon) for the SE unbalanced RCA input...


 
  
 I would hope not.  Phase splitter ICs are horrible and not something you want in the audio path.  If you have a Hugo, and you like it,  buy the best single ended amp you can afford and forget about balanced.  The C2 is a single ended M9 which saves you money and space.  Win win.
  
 If you must have a balanced amp the Bryston BHA-1 and Schiit Mjolnir will take a single ended input and put out a balanced signa without a splitter IC.  In the case of the Bryston even the balanced input is really single ended and for the Schiit there are no single ended outputs.  There are likely more but I'm drawing a blank.


----------



## Stillhart

solude said:


> I would hope not.  *Phase splitter ICs are horrible and not something you want in the audio path.*  If you have a Hugo, and you like it,  buy the best single ended amp you can afford and forget about balanced.  The C2 is a single ended M9 which saves you money and space.  Win win.
> 
> If you must have a balanced amp the Bryston BHA-1 and Schiit Mjolnir will take a single ended input and put out a balanced signa without a splitter IC.  In the case of the Bryston even the balanced input is really single ended and for the Schiit there are no single ended outputs.  There are likely more but I'm drawing a blank.


 
  
  
 I'd question that statement based on my experience with the Liquid Carbon.  I can hear no difference between the SE and Balanced inputs from the same DAC into the LC.
  
  


beolab said:


> Does anyone know if the NFB-1 or in general if Audio-GD amps are using a phase splitter like (Cavalli Audio Liquid Carbon) for the SE unbalanced RCA input or do i need to go in through the XLR input on the NFB-1 to not loose any SQ ?
> I have a Chord Hugo DAC with just RCA out, so i can go from RCA out - RCA in or RCA out -XLR in cable, does someone know if its any degree in the SQ if i go RCA-RCA vs RCA-XLR ?


 
  
 Well if the NFB-1 is basically the same as the amp section of my NFB-28 (as some have stated) then no, it doesn't use a phase splitter.  I will say that the NFB-28 amp sounds wider side-to-side but less deep front-to-back than the LC.  It's also brighter in the highs, which probably contributes to the bigger soundstage.  Or you could say the LC is slightly warmer, contributing to the Cavalli house sound.


----------



## warrenpchi

solude said:


> I would hope not.  Phase splitter ICs are horrible and not something you want in the audio path.


 
  
 How so, please explain?
  
 Also, I'm not sure the Carbon uses a phase splitter IC, as Alex has explicitly said that there are no ICs in the signal path.


----------



## lukeap69

warrenpchi said:


> How so, please explain?
> 
> Also, I'm not sure the Carbon uses a phase splitter IC, as Alex has explicitly said that there are no ICs in the signal path.


 
 Perhaps @runeight can also chime in about how it was done for LC?


----------



## Stillhart

lukeap69 said:


> Perhaps @runeight can also chime in about how it was done for LC?


 
  
 He did right here:
  


runeight said:


> The LC isn't really optimized for either type of operation. It's a balanced amp that can accept SE input and deliver SE output.
> 
> But, let's clarify the input. I think we've already talked about the SE vs. Bal output enough, but maybe more detail on how the input works would be helpful.
> 
> ...


----------



## lukeap69

Ahh. Thanks Stillhart.


----------



## Beolab

@Kingwa 

Can you please answer if the NFB-1 AMP us a phase splitter or how do you think i should gain the most SQ out of my setup with 
Chord Hugo with RCA SE out and then go in on either the SE RCA input or on the XLR inputs on the NFB-1 ( Using a RCA-XLR cable or a RCA-RCA cable if it not a diffrence for the NFB-1 Amp? ), and then use the 4-Pin XLR out for my Abyss.


----------



## Kingwa

In our balanced amps, they had not the phase splitter to conversion the RCA to balance signal.
 The real balanced amp design, can get the single-ended input and output balance signal without phase splitter .
 The diagram as below.
 The design can feed the single-ended to either either -IN and +IN input, or feed to both inputs,and had the +out and -out signal .
 In the case , can avoid the new distortion of the phase splitter .
 Sorry for the poor English may can't explain clean.


----------



## Beolab

kingwa said:


> In our balanced amps, they had not the phase splitter to conversion the RCA to balance signal.
> The real balanced amp design, can get the single-ended input and output balance signal without phase splitter .
> The diagram as below.
> The design can feed the single-ended to either either -IN and +IN input, or feed to both inputs,and had the +out and -out signal .
> ...




Thanks @Kingwa for you fast and very informative answer! 

So i set up my NFB-1 Amp with the SE input from the Chord Hugo through RCA-RCA and then use the 4pin -XLR out for my Abyss headphones, and it is going to sound nice! 

Have a nice day Kingwa , and thanks for your good support and feedback!


----------



## Solude

warrenpchi said:


> How so, please explain?


 
  
 Because putting an O2 between a Hugo and a GS-X is a great way to make both pointless.
  
 But since Alex has kind of explained what is actually done, it sounds like what is actually being used is a discrete unity gain inverting amplifier similar to what Bryston does with the BHA-1 but at the input instead of the output.


----------



## wmedrz

How about the unbalanced signal in fully balanced design? Do you use differential amplifier or is it half the balanced signal per channel?


----------



## Beolab

wmedrz said:


> How about the unbalanced signal in fully balanced design? Do you use differential amplifier or is it half the balanced signal per channel?




Good question, if the line level reduces i half or?


----------



## DesiGuy79

What you guys think about master 11 vs 27h ?


----------



## aamefford

A discussion about the C2 vs. the NFB-1AMP to pair with my Dac-19 10th anniversary edition.  We kinda decided to move it over here:
  
Originally Posted by *Stillhart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  
  
If you believe the claims of common mode rejection are dubious, why are all your headphones balanced? It looks like you have aftermarket ones so you can't claim they came that way. I'm genuinely curious. Going balanced is more expensive and most people wouldn't bother unless they thought it had an advantage.
  
Regarding you question about the phase splitter, you might check this discussion out: http://www.head-fi.org/t/769986/three-new-amps-on-preorder-from-audio-gd-c-2-11th-anniversary-edition-nfb-1amp-nfb-3amp/225#post_11786510
  
Actually that's probably a better thread for this question, tho really I think you'll find mostly the same people in both. :-D
  
 Yes, I've been lurking over here as well.  I should have said something more like dubious benefit of common mode rejection, given my 6' to 10' at a max headphone cable run.  On long runs, low signal strength like mic cables and audio snakes, I absolutely understand the benefit of common mode rejection.  I just kind of doubt there is an actual benefit from common mode rejection in headphone cables.  Then again, my headphone cable often ends up in a heap on top of my power cords....  I should also note that I don't have a complete handle in my head as to whether balanced provides greater driver control over single ended at the same voltage swing.  For instance, is the NFB-1Amp to a balanced wired headphone really going to provide more control, dynamics, etc over the C2 to the same headphone wired single ended?  My suspicion is that it is the voltage swing and power, not the balanced vs single ended that will make the difference.  In other words, I kinda think the NFB-1Amp and C2 will be essentially equivalent in this regard.
  
 So....  With me thinking all that, why are my headphones balanced?  A fair question.
  
 1) My HA-1 is a balanced amp, and my Centrance HIFI-M8 was a balanced amp.  I wanted to try out balanced with the HIFI-M8.  With the HA-1, and other balanced amps I've tried, the balanced connection offers (4x?) the power, hance just plain sounds better than the single ended connection to the same amp.  For instance, my HA-1 sounds better out of the balanced than the single ended outputs.
  
 2) I hate the thought of using a balanced amp single ended.  It just bugs me that I will not be using all the amp channels.
  
 3) Perception - balanced is supposed to sound better, right?  (Yes, this is what I'm calling into question here).
  
 4) My headphones are actually set up with 2 SE adapters and a 4 pin XLR, all can be plugged into a mini XLR on the end of my headphone cables.  This is handy at meets - whatever connection the amp needs, I have one.  'Cept for those damned kobicons.  My headphones are balanced, but they are also single ended.
  
 I'm just thinking that the NFB-1Amp and the C2 will have the same control over the driver, etc, since they essentially have the same voltage swing.  I'm jsut trying to decide which to pair with my Dac-19.
  
 Comments?


----------



## Stillhart

IMO, the basic rule of thumb is that whether you go balanced or not on your amp should be a function of the output, not the input.  In other words, if you already have a bunch of balanced headphone cables, getting a balanced amp is probably the way to go.  
  
 All other things equal, using a SE DAC with a balanced amp (in general) isn't going to sound any different than using it with a SE amp.  When I tried my DAC-19 with the C2-Class A (not the current one, the version before) vs the NFB-28's amp, the difference wasn't really noticeable unless I used the ACSS to the C-2.
  
 Actually, that brings up a good point.  Can you run the DAC-19 into the NFB-1AMP via ACSS?  If not, I'd suggest the C-2 because ACSS made a noticeable improvement.


----------



## aamefford

stillhart said:


> IMO, the basic rule of thumb is that whether you go balanced or not on your amp should be a function of the output, not the input.  In other words, if you already have a bunch of balanced headphone cables, getting a balanced amp is probably the way to go.
> 
> All other things equal, using a SE DAC with a balanced amp (in general) isn't going to sound any different than using it with a SE amp.  When I tried my DAC-19 with the C2-Class A (not the current one, the version before) vs the NFB-28's amp, the difference wasn't really noticeable unless I used the ACSS to the C-2.
> 
> Actually, that brings up a good point.  Can you run the DAC-19 into the NFB-1AMP via ACSS?  If not, I'd suggest the C-2 because ACSS made a noticeable improvement.



Good question regarding ACSS. This is one reason I'm considering a matching A-GD amp. That and I'd like a matching stack. Well, both of those and I have this problem with buying headphone gear I don't technically need…


----------



## Stillhart

aamefford said:


> Good question regarding ACSS. This is one reason I'm considering a matching A-GD amp. That and I'd like a matching stack. Well, both of those and I have this problem with buying headphone gear I don't technically need…


 
  
 I think the C-2 and NFB-1 are in the same case as the DAC-19 so that shouldn't be an issue for matching.  And the price difference isn't much either so paying for something you don't need isn't really an issue either (IMHO, of course.  I grant that $40 can be a big deal to some folks.).  
  
 I believe I read somewhere that the ACSS cable for balanced is different than the one for SE.  If that's the case then you may not be able to use the DAC-19 to the NFB-1AMP and hence the C-2 would be the obvious choice.  You might try emailing @Kingwa...


----------



## aamefford

To me, price of each is close enough. I do have an email in to Kingwa, awaiting his response. I'm not sure I asked the ACSS question well enough.


----------



## Currawong

Regarding balanced amps: Deciding to make a differential amp is a circuit design choice, just like deciding to use a tube gain stage, negative feedback, opamps, all discrete circuits, or use any particular topology as opposed to any other. It becomes a significant choice for us because it affects the cabling of our headphones. Extensive analysis of the merits or otherwise of a design wont change how it performs, only our individual biases based on other peoples' arguments. It isn't worth over-thinking IMO.


----------



## lukeap69

Of course curious minds would like to know, is NFB-1AMP better than C2 when paired with DAC-19 assuming cable termination is not an issue? Because they are close in price, one would wonder what is the best choice amongst the 2?


----------



## Currawong

lukeap69 said:


> Of course curious minds would like to know, is NFB-1AMP better than C2 when paired with DAC-19 assuming cable termination is not an issue? Because they are close in price, one would wonder what is the best choice amongst the 2?


 

 With what headphones? And music? And how loud are you listening?
  
 For example, there was a member on here not too long ago who was using TOTL headphones out of his iPhone, much to everyone's offence. However, he strictly only ever listens to music not above 70dBs! So amping the iPhone ended up being completely pointless for him, as at that volume there was no discernable benefit.
  
 Back to the actual question, given Kingwa's focus on making balanced amps, with TOTL headphones the NFB1AMP will probably be at least a bit better. I have the NOS1704, which is a DAC19 without the DSP, and I don't feel there was so much loss of soundstage compared to the Master 7 (using the previous USB input), so if you're using headphones that will benefit from the NFB1AMP's power and precision you might appreciate the improvement.


----------



## Solude

Except that on the new versions... same power.  The balanced one runs 15V rails, the single ended 30V.  Just to add to the dilemma the C2 uses larger local power supply caps and the output devices from the M9 where the 1AMP uses smaller local supply caps and the lower power output devices from the mid line amps but obviously doubles up on them and asks less of them.  But otherwise same circuit, ignoring part subs, just single ended or balanced.  I'm inclined to think it's probably a wash.


----------



## aamefford

solude said:


> Except that on the new versions... same power.  The balanced one runs 15V rails, the single ended 30V.  Just to add to the dilemma the C2 uses larger local power supply caps and the output devices from the M9 where the 1AMP uses smaller local supply caps and the lower power output devices from the mid line amps but obviously doubles up on them and asks less of them.  But otherwise same circuit, ignoring part subs, just single ended or balanced.  I'm inclined to think it's probably a wash.



@Solude, you have concisely stated the issues leading to my question! It seems to be a wash, or possibly that the C2 has "better" parts regarding power supply. Or not, since the NFB-1Amp does indeed double up. I'm kind of inclined at this point to want to pair my Dac-19 with the C2 for a killer single ended system. I'm still basically undecided though.


----------



## LancerFIN

C2 seems to be wiser. Especially if you dont't have balanced headphone cables yet. If I ever buy HD800 and it doesn't come with balanced cable I am going to cry. So expensive to buy balanced cables. Even the cheapest china stuff runs $150.


----------



## lukeap69

lancerfin said:


> C2 seems to be wiser. Especially if you dont't have balanced headphone cables yet. If I ever buy HD800 and it doesn't come with balanced cable I am going to cry. So expensive to buy balanced cables. Even the cheapest china stuff runs $150.


 

 The cheapest balanced cable (2m long) from Lunashop is 100USD including shipping. I was lucky enough to buy it from Aliexpress during promo for 68USD shipped. I have since replaced it with ForzaAudio cables which is adaptable for my Oppo PM-2 and future cans...


----------



## Solude

aamefford said:


> I'm kind of inclined at this point to want to pair my Dac-19 with the C2 for a killer single ended system.


 
  
  
 That was my plan before the M11 launch.  The C2 also has a real gain switch internally so there's that.


----------



## Stillhart

lancerfin said:


> C2 seems to be wiser. Especially if you dont't have balanced headphone cables yet. If I ever buy HD800 and it doesn't come with balanced cable I am going to cry. So expensive to buy balanced cables. Even the cheapest china stuff runs $150.


 
  
 I felt the same way.  So I spent the money I would have spent on a cable on soldering gear.  Now every cable I make is closer to $20.  :-D


----------



## aamefford

My cables are set up with adapters for balanced and SE. I had a headfier do it for me. DIY is the least costly route for sure.


----------



## Beolab

kingwa said:


> In our balanced amps, they had not the phase splitter to conversion the RCA to balance signal.
> The real balanced amp design, can get the single-ended input and output balance signal without phase splitter .
> The diagram as below.
> The design can feed the single-ended to either either -IN and +IN input, or feed to both inputs,and had the +out and -out signal .
> ...




@Kingwa

So if i use a RCA-XLR cable or a RCA-RCA cable on the inputs on the NFB-1 AMP will not increase or decrease the SQ or the power output of the NFB-1 AMP if i understand you correctly. 

I wonder why Alex Cavalli are using a phase slitter on the Balanced SS Liquid Carbon if you don't need it on a true balanced amp if he doesn't need it from the beginning ? 

Best regards 

Fredrik


----------



## Stillhart

@runeight and Kingwa are both great at what they do.  I don't know enough about electrical engineering to even begin to comprehend the technicalities behind their design choices.  I wouldn't dare question why they made the choices they made on a given design.
  
 That said, I think that if you do choose to question it, it would probably be best to tag the good doctor so that perhaps he can answer for himself?


----------



## DreamKing

lancerfin said:


> C2 seems to be wiser. Especially if you dont't have balanced headphone cables yet. If I ever buy HD800 and it doesn't come with balanced cable I am going to cry. So expensive to buy balanced cables. Even the cheapest china stuff runs $150.


 
  
 You need a balanced dac too. The whole system needs to be balanced because that's the whole point of its concept. And even then the benefits are relative at best and not guaranteed. For instance, it's definitely not important for typically short cable runs in headphone setups. Balanced is a stronger argument for long speaker setup cable runs.


----------



## Currawong

I'm using active speakers in my living room, spaced quite a bit apart with other electronics around, so there's benefit to me using the NFB1AMP as a pre-amp.


----------



## headfidelity

Just received my NFB-3AMP yesterday. A quick review for those considering this model .

Kudos to Audio-GD! This is my first purchase from them and everything went through very smoothly. Great customer service, fast response time, easy payment via PayPal, and prompt delivery.

Now to the amp. Upon unboxing I was impressed with the build quality for something at this price range. Good solid construction. Volume knob has a quality feel to it with just the right amount of resistance.

This is the perfect device for me as I have two analog inputs (NAD CD player and DX90), and I can use either the headphone out or the preamp out, which I have routed to a pair of powered monitor speakers (Prodipe TDC6).I have also used the custom option to convert the ACSS input to RCA.

FYI there is a small blue power indicator LED on the front panel (not noticeable from the photo on the website), and also the high and low gain switch applies for both the HP and preamp out.

Have not had a chance to test it out with headphones properly yet, so the following impressions are through my speakers. This amp has a lot of power on tap! Just about 8 to 9 o'clock for volume at low gain setting gives me a good moderate listening volume for a small room. With high gain, you will notice a bigger soundstage, at low gain there's warmer sound with a bit of treble roll-off that will make longer recreational listening sessions more pleasant). So I think both gain settings are very usable.

Very pleased with this purchase which I think is an excellent choice for those who don't need digital inputs and who may like preamp outs for running into powered monitors, many of which can accept RCA, and also balanced inputs from USB interfaces.


----------



## i019791

headfidelity said:


> With high gain, you will notice a bigger soundstage, at low gain there's warmer sound with a bit of treble roll-off that will make longer recreational listening sessions more pleasant). So I think both gain settings are very usable.


 
 If your description on the differences due to gain is accurate, Audio gd has likely messed it big time..


----------



## headfidelity

i019791 said:


> If your description on the differences due to gain is accurate, Audio gd has likely messed it big time..


 
 Those were rough preliminary impressions upon receipt and initial functional test of the amp, had wanted to wait until I had a "proper" pair of headphones to offer a more detailed write-up; also I had been too busy with work to provide an interim update. But well, here goes...
  
 I sold my Beyer T51P and will get a Senn HD600 at some point. I do most of my listening in my bedroom nowadays, currently through powered monitor speakers. However I do have a pair of inexpensive Onto headphones which I used to check the headphone output from the NFB-3AMP. The Ontos are a pair warm-sounding cans IMO.
  
 Using the Ontos for the following tasks :
  
 Listening to tracks directly from my DX90's headphone out (using the DX90's mid-gain setting), and then comparing it to the headphone out of the NFB-3AMP at its Low Gain switch setting (DX90 Line Out ->3.5mm to RCA into NFB-3AMP's input), I would say the NFB-3AMP is very transparent. Just louder and it does it very cleanly.
  
 Listening to the same tracks with the NFB-3AMP's High Gain switch setting, there is a bigger soundstage, and more details in the treble come through.
  
 So my earlier impressions were kinda skewed in terms of perspective (sorry about that!), but IMHO the aural differences between Low Gain and High Gain on the NFB-3AMP are discernible - High Gain provides for a bigger soundstage with more details coming through, specially in the higher frequency range.
  
 Hope I have clarified things, apologies for any potential misunderstandings the initial post may have caused. I am really enjoying the NFB-3AMP!


----------



## i019791

headfidelity said:


> So my earlier impressions were kinda skewed in terms of perspective (sorry about that!), but IMHO the aural differences between Low Gain and High Gain on the NFB-3AMP are discernible - High Gain provides for a bigger soundstage with more details coming through, specially in the higher frequency range.


 
 When you switch from high to low gain, do you also increase the volume pot accordingly before comparing ?


----------



## headfidelity

i019791 said:


> When you switch from high to low gain, do you also increase the volume pot accordingly before comparing ?




Yes, I adjust the volume pot to match the volumes.


----------



## i019791

headfidelity said:


> Yes, I adjust the volume pot to match the volumes.


 
 In this case I would contact Audio gd and report what seems to me a malfunction


----------



## headfidelity

i019791 said:


> In this case I would contact Audio gd and report what seems to me a malfunction




Really? Can you elaborate on why you think it is a malfunction?

I always thought it is normal for the volume to go up (on the same headphones) when you switch from low gain to high gain...


----------



## i019791

headfidelity said:


> Really? Can you elaborate on why you think it is a malfunction?
> 
> I always thought it is normal for the volume to go up (on the same headphones) when you switch from low gain to high gain...


 
 The volume will indeed go up as you stated. But after volume matching using the volume pot, differences in sound quality should be negligible.


----------



## DreamKing

Differences in frequency response when changing gain can easily be attributed to Equal Loudness Contours. A change in gain affects it considerably. Louder is heard as better for most people. These audible differences are always about perception than what the electronic device is actually, technically doing. Our ears aren't sensitive enough or capable of distinguishing what's technically changing in the amp besides the volume change. An actual maIfunction affects the sound much more obviously negatively and isn't about perceived differences going from one person to another.
 I wouldn't worry about it. As far as gain is involved, going with whatever is more pleasing is the way to go. It's as simple as that.


----------



## Solude

Also if the gain is controlled by a feedback loop lowering the gain also lowers the output impedance which would alter the frequency response of many headphones.  Conversely a higher gain raises the output impedance.  As an example the Schiit Asgard 2 is just shy of 2ohm in high gain and under 1ohm in low gain.  Doesn't sound like much but with IEMs like the 846, which dip as low as 4ohm, it is.


----------



## headfidelity

Thanks for input (no pun intended), guys.
  
 It is night-time now and it is quiet, and I found some time to give the amp a proper listen with the Onto headphones. These are certainly not "proper" headphones to review the amp with, but will have to do for now until the dough for the Senn HD600 comes in .
  
 Music track is Angela Hewitt & Andrea Olivia playing the 3rd movement from Bach's Flute Sonata BWV1013 (24/44.1 Flac).
  
 Source is an iBasso DX90 DAP. When connected to the NFB-3AMP, it is via the DX90's Line Out (volume set to max of 255) using a quality Klotz cable 3.5mm - RCA interconnect into the NFB-3AMP's RCA input.
  
 Comparing the DX90 headphone out (mid-gain setting on DX90) direct into the Onto, against the Onto via NFB-3AMP on its Low Gain setting : I find that the NFB-3AMP gives a clean, tonally uncoloured reproduction/amplification of the music, but with more headroom. I would liken this to playing music on a pair of decent small desktop speakers vs. good hifi speakers. The music comes through sounding less "forced". For comparison sake I also listened to the Onto direct via the DX90's Line Out - same difference with the amp applies here.
  
 With the NFB-3AMP on its High Gain setting, it is as what I described in the earlier post. Although I feel the differences are discernible, IMO they are actually useful differences to have, and are in no way big enough for me to believe that it is due to a malfunction of the amp - I would reckon it is down to its design and implementation.
  
 Put another way - the amp just sounds too damn good to be malfunctioning .
  
 If anyone else has this amp, would be great to hear your impressions too!


----------



## DreamKing

Proper Class-A operation, design or implementation means the gain doesn't affect the FR in any case. It sounds more like typical Equal Loudness Contours being affected.


----------



## Currawong

It's very easy to be fooled by gain switches. As has already been pointed out, our perception of different frequencies changes with volume, so it is easy to be tricked into thinking that gain settings sound different.
  
 Additionally, the volume setting doesn't relate to power, it relates to the gain of the amp. An amp could have a lot of power, but low gain and thus sound too quite even at a high volume setting. The inverse is possible too: An amp could have little power but high gain and sound loud at a low volume setting. 
  
 I find the mid-to-high range Audio-gd amps sound "effortless" as if there isn't an amplifier there at all.
  
 Someone asked about the NFB10ES2 I have -- the NFB1AMP is definitely a step up from it, though the amplifier section can't be isolated as such, there is more potential with a higher quality DAC feeding it.  I'm writing a review in which I'll include some comparisons.


----------



## lukeap69

That would be awesome Amos. I'm looking forward to reading your review! I assume there will be a youtube video that will accompany your review as usual? I actually enjoy watching your review videos...


----------



## Pirakaphile

currawong said:


> It's very easy to be fooled by gain switches. As has already been pointed out, our perception of different frequencies changes with volume, so it is easy to be tricked into thinking that gain settings sound different.
> 
> Additionally, the volume setting doesn't relate to power, it relates to the gain of the amp. An amp could have a lot of power, but low gain and thus sound too quite even at a high volume setting. The inverse is possible too: An amp could have little power but high gain and sound loud at a low volume setting.
> 
> ...



I'll be looking forward to your review. I'm looking out for an amp with preamp that'll work well with speakers and headphones.


----------



## headfidelity

dreamking said:


> Proper Class-A operation, design or implementation means the gain doesn't affect the FR in any case. It sounds more like typical Equal Loudness Contours being affected.


 
 Let me read up on that ! This forum is a treasure-trove of information.


----------



## headfidelity

A question for owners of Audio-GD units with a preamp out, who run the preamp out to a power amp to drive speakers - any suggestions for a power amp that is not too costly (maybe US$500 or less), preferably with a footprint that is not that big? So far I have found the Music Fidelity M1PWR and Emotiva X-Mini A-100. The Emotiva XPA-200 has a footprint that is too big for me . Looking to hook my NFB-3AMP to a power amp to drive some bookshelf-sized speakers, possibly the Cambridge Audio SX60 or the like, so I really don't need that much power.
  
 Any feedback/suggestions or pointers in the right direction would be appreciated.


----------



## LancerFIN

headfidelity said:


> A question for owners of Audio-GD units with a preamp out, who run the preamp out to a power amp to drive speakers - any suggestions for a power amp that is not too costly (maybe US$500 or less), preferably with a footprint that is not that big? So far I have found the Music Fidelity M1PWR and Emotiva X-Mini A-100. The Emotiva XPA-200 has a footprint that is too big for me . Looking to hook my NFB-3AMP to a power amp to drive some bookshelf-sized speakers, possibly the Cambridge Audio SX60 or the like, so I really don't need that much power.
> 
> Any feedback/suggestions or pointers in the right direction would be appreciated.


 

 I don't personally have experience with these but they look very promising and footprint is small.
  
 http://www.ghentaudio.com/amp/ga-s125p.html
  
 If I saw one of the higher end models for sale used somewhere I'd probably try them out.


----------



## Solude

dreamking said:


> Proper Class-A operation, design or implementation means the gain doesn't affect the FR in any case. It sounds more like typical Equal Loudness Contours being affected.


 
  
 Going to depend on how gain is achieved for sound differences but yes, gain doesn't affect the flat measured frequency response of the amp.  Though it can extend/shrink it.  Class A bias has no relation to frequency response though, even class D will measure flat.


----------



## headfidelity

lancerfin said:


> I don't personally have experience with these but they look very promising and footprint is small.
> 
> http://www.ghentaudio.com/amp/ga-s125p.html
> 
> If I saw one of the higher end models for sale used somewhere I'd probably try them out.


 
 Fits what I'm looking for very well, thank you !


----------



## headfidelity

For those who are looking to get an affordable power amp to connect to the preamp out of their Audio-GD units, to use with passive speakers :
  
 I was browsing through a local hifi shop today and came across the Audiolab M-PWR power amp. Dedicated power amp, nice compact footprint (depth-wise, excluding connectors, it is pretty much the same as the NFB-3AMP), just a simple power switch in front (no volume knob which is just the way I want it). Accepts both RCA and balanced inputs just like the Ghent amps, so that's a big plus if I use a balanced preamp in the future. I can also run the balanced outputs from my USB recording interface into this setup.
  
 Full specs here : http://www.audiolab.co.uk/M-PWR.aspx?lang=En
  
 Did an audition with the amp connected to an Audiolab CD player (should be the 8200CDQ iirc; digitial volume control); speakers were a pair of Wharfedale Denton 80th Anniversary. Very well matched and sound was really impressive, considering the relatively affordable price of the component items.
  
 The amp was attractively priced too, at what works out to be about US$470. Needless to say, I bought it!
  
 Will be doing some shopping for bookshelf speakers before I connect it all together.
  
 For those who use the preamp outs, would be interesting to see some photos of your Audio-GD units with your monitor speaker/amp->passive speaker setups .


----------



## sahmen

I still have not seen the review of a pairing of the NFB1 amp, and the Hifiman He-6.  I have seen some posts suggesting that they might pair up really well,  and the NFB1 amp's output power spec of 8000mw/40 Ohms would seem to back that up, but I would like to read a review or impressions of the actual pairing, since, as they say, the sweetness of the pudding is in the eating.  Can anyone who has actually listened to the pairing chime in here with their impressions?  That would be highly appreciated by me, as I have just ordered one NFB1 Amp to pair with my He-6.
  
 Now here's a little puzzle some of you experts might help resolve for me... The confusion arises for me from the fact the output power is sometimes expressed in mw/ohms ratios (as in 8000mw at 40 Ohms), and sometimes in terms of transformer power that is expressed in voltage...  For example, I was told that in order to drive the He-6 well, I would need at least 24v of output power.
  
 Now while the NFB1 amps output power is expressed as 8000mw/40 ohms, it has another spec described as "Pre amp output level (Max)" which is rated at 10v for RCA, 20v for XLR, and 2.4MA for ACSS.
  
 a. First of all what does "Pre amp output level" stand for, and does it have any relationship with the AC transformer power of 24v-0 24v that some people were recommending for the He-6?
  
 b. I shall use an xlr balanced cable with the NFB1amp for my He-6, so will the stated 20v of "Pre amp output level" suffice?   
  
 c. I had my NFB1 customized with an additional +9DB of gain:  how does that translate into output power specs?


----------



## sahmen

Here are some answers I received from Kingwa, after sending him some of the questions I have raised in the previous post:
  
 Me:
  What does "Pre-amp output level" stand for, and how does it affect output power?
  
 Answer-------Preamp output is on rear , it is not headphone output, it had not power specs.
  
 Me:
   Also, what will the +9DB gain customization I requested affect the output power or reflect upon it?
  
 Answer: --------No, just effect the gain, turn less volume and louder.
  
 Me
 Does the 20V@XLR rating for "Pre-amp output level" have anything to do with the 24v of transformer power that some Headfiers have been talking about?
  
 Answer: --------------The balance design just like the transformer voltage become double ( *Me: I do not think I understand this answer, and I am not sure whether it actually addresses the corresponding question*).
  
 Me:
 I know Mr. Kingwa has mentioned on the NFB1 amp Head-fi forum that the unit is capable of driving the He-6 adequately, and I have no reason to doubt his words.  I just wish he could give me a more detailed description of just how well the Unit can drive the He-6, as I have still not seen any reviews of that particular pairing (He-6 + NFB1 amp).
  
 Answer : -----------We have not any comment on the unit with the headphone. Even we own the HE6 and applied it test the amp.
  
  
 Kingwa


----------



## Beolab

The NFB-1 Amp produce nearly 7 watts @ 46 Ohm and i have order it for my Abyss headphones. I will receive the amp in next week, so i can comment if it have the power to control and steer out my Abyss 100%. 

So if it is a match, then in will most likely also work for the HE-6.


----------



## Solude

beolab said:


> So if it is a match, then in will most likely also work for the HE-6.


 
  
 The two aren't even remotely the same load.  The Abysmal needs 2mW while the HE6 needs 20mW to reach 90dB.  Or to use the power just mentioned, the volume 7W will give to the Abysmal would be the same as 70W into the HE6.


----------



## Beolab

solude said:


> The two aren't even remotely the same load.  The Abysmal needs 2mW while the HE6 needs 20mW to reach 90dB.  Or to use the power just mentioned, the volume 7W will give to the Abysmal would be the same as 70W into the HE6.




Hehe,

The Abyss Spec: 
85db 
46 Ohms 

The HE-6
83,5db 
50 Ohms 

=
1,5 db sensitivity 
4 Ohms 

In difference.. 


Its pretty similar values and equal load for the amp, so i don't see how the Abyss only need 7 watts and the He-6 needs 70 watts..


----------



## Solude

Hence why spec sheets are worthless and actual measurements are useful.
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/JPSLabsAbyssAB1266.pdf
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/HiFiMANHE6.pdf


----------



## Beolab

solude said:


> Hence why spec sheets are worthless and actual measurements are useful.
> 
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/JPSLabsAbyssAB1266.pdf
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/HiFiMANHE6.pdf




I see Tylś measuring, but it seems a little odd if its true, because then the HifiMans own amp EF-6 could not play @ 90 db with the HE-6, if that is true..

It only outputs 5 watts @ 50 Ohms and are made for the HE-6. 

So something is not right here..


----------



## Solude

The HE6 puts out 114dB at 5W.  Remember the spec is milliWatt not Watt.


----------



## Beolab

solude said:


> The HE6 puts out 114dB at 5W.  Remember the spec is milliWatt not Watt.




I have to sharpen my eyes 

You are right...


----------



## DreamKing

solude said:


> Hence why spec sheets are worthless and actual measurements are useful.
> 
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/JPSLabsAbyssAB1266.pdf
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/HiFiMANHE6.pdf


 
  
 Thanks for this.  For some reason I thought manufacturer specs for efficiency were accurate. I go to Tyll's measurements for the FR graphs mainly, only. Can't trust the data from people who sell you stuff, sad world. 20 frkin milliwatts to get 90dB and somehow they get 1mW for 83.5dB on their end. Lol.


----------



## sahmen

Here's a question for anyone who can answer : to use the 4-pin balanced output of my NFB 1amp (and also the Liquid Carbon), I'd have to re-terminate my Beyerdynamic T1 hp cables...  According to Beyerdynamic, those cables are already balanced internally, but they're, unfortunately for me,  terminated with a 1/4 TRS connector.
 In many of the cases of the re-termination I have read about on Head-fi, the owners appear to have cut off the 1/4 connector, and replaced it with a 4-pin male xlr connector, which they have soldered on to the end of the cable.  My question is whether it would hurt to use a female 1/4 to male 4-pin xlr adapter as termination (provided one can get one) instead of cutting of the 1/4 TRS plug and replacing it with the soldered 4-pin xlr connector.  Is there a downside to using an adapter?  (I'd rather avoid the option of cutting and soldering as my skills in such DIY operations are next to nil, which is why I am even asking).


----------



## aamefford

sahmen said:


> Here's a question for anyone who can answer : to use the 4-pin balanced output of my NFB 1amp (and also the Liquid Carbon), I'd have to re-terminate my Beyerdynamic T1 hp cables...  According to Beyerdynamic, those cables are already balanced internally, but they're, unfortunately for me,  terminated with a 1/4 TRS connector.
> In many of the cases of the re-termination I have read about on Head-fi, the owners appear to have cut off the 1/4 connector, and replaced it with a 4-pin male xlr connector, which they have soldered on to the end of the cable.  My question is whether it would hurt to use a female 1/4 to male 4-pin xlr adapter as termination (provided one can get one) instead of cutting of the 1/4 TRS plug and replacing it with the soldered 4-pin xlr connector.  Is there a downside to using an adapter?  (I'd rather avoid the option of cutting and soldering as my skills in such DIY operations are next to nil, which is why I am even asking).


I'm pretty sure that is a bad idea, as you end up connecting the left and right - connectors together, each of which have dedicated amp sections. You also get none of the benefit of a balanced set up, and I think have a pretty real chance of letting the magic smoke out of your amp. I've never had success putting the magic smoke back in without new parts…


----------



## sahmen

aamefford said:


> I'm pretty sure that is a bad idea, as you end up connecting the left and right - connectors together, each of which have dedicated amp sections. You also get none of the benefit of a balanced set up, and I think have a pretty real chance of letting the magic smoke out of your amp. I've never had success putting the magic smoke back in without new parts…


 
 No wonder those who re-terminate never talk about using adapters. lol. I wouldn't want to fry any of my amps. Thanks for clearing that up.  Now I have to think of going the DIY route.  Sounds like some scary stuff now.


----------



## Solude

You can use an adapter to change the headphone from balanced to single ended but not the other way around.  If you use an adapter to plug a single ended headphone into a balanced connection you get BOOM!


----------



## lukeap69

solude said:


> You can use an adapter to change the headphone from balanced to single ended but not the other way around.  If you use an adapter to plug a single ended headphone into a balanced connection you get BOOM!




That's a better way of describing bass slam.


----------



## tim3320070

sahmen said:


> No wonder those who re-terminate never talk about using adapters. lol. I wouldn't want to fry any of my amps. Thanks for clearing that up.  Now I have to think of going the DIY route.  Sounds like some scary stuff now.



 


Its much easier than you think, try youtube. Also, if you make a mistake, it can be redone


----------



## sahmen

tim3320070 said:


> sahmen said:
> 
> 
> > No wonder those who re-terminate never talk about using adapters. lol. I wouldn't want to fry any of my amps. Thanks for clearing that up.  Now I have to think of going the DIY route.  Sounds like some scary stuff now.
> ...


 
 Thanks for the encouragement.  Do you by any chance have a link or links to any particularly helpful youtube videos to suggest.  Of course, I am going to search myself, but if do know of any I might directly check out, that would be helpful and really appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## sahmen

aamefford said:


> I'm pretty sure that is a bad idea, as you end up connecting the left and right - connectors together, each of which have dedicated amp sections. You also get none of the benefit of a balanced set up, and I think have a pretty real chance of letting the magic smoke out of your amp. I've never had success putting the magic smoke back in without new parts…


 
  
  


solude said:


> You can use an adapter to change the headphone from balanced to single ended but not the other way around.  If you use an adapter to plug a single ended headphone into a balanced connection you get BOOM!


 
  
  


lukeap69 said:


> That's a better way of describing bass slam.


 
  
  
 Okay guys here is one question:  I made the initial query, because I actually have an adapter which is exactly like the one I have described, and which I am using to connect my mid-fi headphones (the Hifi-man he-500, Sennheiser HD 600 and 700 etc etc.) to my Emotiva Mini-x a-100 Amp, of course, using speaker taps.  I only do this when I think I need the extra juice of that speaker amp for the cans, and the Emotiva has driven everything I have thrown at it (Mainly the he-500) with aplomb, while hooked to the cans via  4-pin xlr connectors/adapter, as  I have described... (I could post photos, if anyone would like to see them)...
  
 Could anyone explain to me why the connectors/adapter work smoothly via speaker taps, but pose a risk of blowing up the amp when connected via the amp's own XLR female connector?  I am not suggesting that you might be wrong, I am just trying to improve my learning about how these electronics work, so no hidden agenda here.  Any clarifications would be highly appreciated.


----------



## tim3320070

sahmen said:


> Thanks for the encouragement.  Do you by any chance have a link or links to any particularly helpful youtube videos to suggest.  Of course, I am going to search myself, but if do know of any I might directly check out, that would be helpful and really appreciated. Thanks.


 
 This is helpful even though it's a Grado: http://www.head-fi.org/t/431493/balanced-xlr-conversion-howto-grado-gs1000
  
 It's always good to use a multimeter to double check -+, they are cheap and I found myself using it a lot of times when experimenting with different headphones over the years.
  
 This is not a XLR solder job but is helpful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e32rMoCEZ8c
  
 Finally, Audio-gd has a step by step that is a good resource: http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/Phoenix/ModifyEN.htm


----------



## gunting

I might be wrong, but I think the risk when connecting headphones directly to the speaker outputs is not to the amp, but to the headphone. For example, the Hifiman speaker adapter you are using with the cans to connect them to the emotiva has a resistance circuit built into the speaker adapter to lower the wattage the headphone sees.


----------



## sahmen

gunting said:


> I might be wrong, but I think the risk when connecting headphones directly to the speaker outputs is not to the amp, but to the headphone. For example, the Hifiman speaker adapter you are using with the cans to connect them to the emotiva has a resistance circuit built into the speaker adapter to lower the wattage the headphone sees.


 
 I ordered that adapter to be built myself, and I can tell you that there is no resistance built into it.  I even bought a headphone tap with in-built resistance for the purpose of using it with the hifiman, but I never used it because it turned out that I did not need it.
  
 Here is the unit I purchased and never used:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/151085117827?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
  
 Of course, I always control the gain on the amp with its own volume dial and make sure it is never turned up beyond the 9 o'oclock position, and it works wonderfully every time.


----------



## gunting

Wow! So you opened up the Hifiman speaker adapter and fund there is no resister in it. I thought that is the goal of the product. Thanks for the info.


----------



## sahmen

gunting said:


> Wow! So you opened up the Hifiman speaker adapter and fund there is no resister in it. I thought that is the goal of the product. Thanks for the info.


 
 Nope, I am talking about an aftermarket adapter I special ordered for the Hifiman HP cable, which I also replaced with an aftermarket version... I do not remember mentioning anything about a Hifiman speaker adapter... This has always been about cable terminations, and adapters that can be applied (or not) to those terminations.  I am not adept at any DIY protocols, so I do not tinker with speakers, crossovers, drivers, etc. etc. Hell, I have never even dared to unscrew, remove, or open any part of a headphone or cable in order to expose
 their innards for whatever reason... yet.
  
 When I purchased the head tap device, someone in the know on the Emotiva lounge advised me that the devise might simply add more to the "damping factor" on the headphone, and reduce the power of the amp on it.  He said I could use the headphone directly with the amp provided I am cautious with the volume dial, and that turned out to be exactly accurate.


----------



## sahmen

*Short and very sweet:*
  
 I received my NFB1 amp yesterday, and hooked it up today to test it with my He-6.  I am very pleased to announce that this beast drives those power-hungry cans with authority and aplomb, leaving a lot of headroom to spare.  I have the He-500, which is no slouch either, but the NFB1 easily showed me why the He-6 is superior to the 500... I do not have the expertise to translate that into the micro-details of the usual metrics of audiophile speak : soundstage, bass extension, treble extension, mid-range properties, resolution, instrument separation, and imaging, etc. etc. etc. blah, blah, blah...
  
 I shall just say this : if you have been considering the NFB1 Amp for the He-6, and have been hesitating for any reason, then this is the time to get off the fence, as there is nothing to be worried about, in my very humble opinion -- my expectations have been exceeded and left in the dust by this beautiful combo...  The synergy between the units is great, and I also like the no-nonsense military grade construction looks of the NFB1 and the special metal remote which came with it...
  
 That would be all for now, my friends
  
 Thanks. 
  
 Now on to the other business of getting my Beyerdynamic T1 cable reterminated with the 4-pin xlr cables.


----------



## Beolab

sahmen said:


> *Short and very sweet:*
> 
> I received my NFB1 amp yesterday, and hooked it up today to test it with my He-6.  I am very pleased to announce that this beast drives those power-hungry cans with authority and aplomb, leaving a lot of headroom to spare.  I have the He-500, which is no slouch either, but the NFB1 easily showed me why the He-6 is superior to the 500... I do not have the expertise to translate that into the micro-details of the usual metrics of audiophile speak : soundstage, bass extension, treble extension, mid-range properties, resolution, instrument separation, and imaging, etc. etc. etc. blah, blah, blah...
> 
> ...




Can not wait to pick up my NFB-1 Amp in Tuesday next week and hook it up for my Abyss. So if it is a perfect match i consider to cancel my LC Pre-order, because i think it going to lack a bit in headroom, and dynamic power.. But i most first have a little burn in and a long listening before i decide. 

Or do you guys think the Liquid Carbon could be a collectors item in the future, and would be smart to keep it ?


----------



## aamefford

sahmen said:


> *Short and very sweet:*
> 
> I received my NFB1 amp yesterday, and hooked it up today to test it with my He-6.  I am very pleased to announce that this beast drives those power-hungry cans with authority and aplomb, leaving a lot of headroom to spare.  I have the He-500, which is no slouch either, but the NFB1 easily showed me why the He-6 is superior to the 500... I do not have the expertise to translate that into the micro-details of the usual metrics of audiophile speak : soundstage, bass extension, treble extension, mid-range properties, resolution, instrument separation, and imaging, etc. etc. etc. blah, blah, blah...
> 
> ...


 

 Just for curiosity's sake, what were you driving the HE-6 with before the NFB-1Amp?  I really like the HE-6, but never wanted to build a rig around it.  I'm about 80% getting an NFB-1Amp just to have a nice complete Audio-GD stack.  I'll decide after I get the Liquid Carbon.  Or I'll just jump in.
  
 Side note - Has anyone tried the Dac-19 to NFB-1 via ACSS?  I think the jury is out as to whether this is possible / advisable?  IACSS is one of my reasons for going with an Audio-GD amp.  I just want to be sure the NFB-1Amp to DAC-19 via ACSS is a possibility.


----------



## sahmen

aamefford said:


> Just for curiosity's sake, what were you driving the HE-6 with before the NFB-1Amp?  I really like the HE-6, but never wanted to build a rig around it.  I'm about 80% getting an NFB-1Amp just to have a nice complete Audio-GD stack.  I'll decide after I get the Liquid Carbon.  Or I'll just jump in.
> 
> Side note - Has anyone tried the Dac-19 to NFB-1 via ACSS?  I think the jury is out as to whether this is possible / advisable?  IACSS is one of my reasons for going with an Audio-GD amp.  I just want to be sure the NFB-1Amp to DAC-19 via ACSS is a possibility.


 
 I just acquired the He-6, so this is the really the first amp I am using to drive it.  Before getting it, I had read plenty about its reputation as a particularly hard to drive headphone : there is plenty of testimony about that particular difficulty here on head-fi, and elsewhere.  As a side note, I have had the He-500 for a long time, and have been driving it with an Emotiva mini-x A-100, which pairs with it quite well.  I never tried the He-6 with the mini-x, because I had read that the combo is not optimal, and did not want to risk getting disappointed too quickly with the very freshly acquired He-6.
  
 That being said, the He-6 + Audiogd NFB1 amp combo sounds great, even freshly out of the box...  Meaning : they sound great even without any of the two having been put through any "break-in" period...  I am scared to think how the sound will evolve after proper "break-in," that is if the "break-in" myths, about which I remain cautiously open-minded, have any merit at all.


----------



## Beolab

Burn





sahmen said:


> I just acquired the He-6, so this is the really the first amp I am using to drive it.  Before getting it, I had read plenty about its reputation as a particularly hard to drive headphone : there is plenty of testimony about that particular difficulty here on head-fi, and elsewhere.  As a side note, I have had the He-500 for a long time, and have been driving it with an Emotiva mini-x A-100, which pairs with it quite well.  I never tried the He-6 with the mini-x, because I had read that the combo is not optimal, and did not want to risk getting disappointed too quickly with the very freshly acquired He-6.
> 
> That being said, the He-6 + Audiogd NFB1 amp combo sounds great, even freshly out of the box...  Meaning : they sound great even without any of the two having been put through any "break-in" period...  I am scared to think how the sound will evolve after proper "break-in," that is if the "break-in" myths, about which I remain cautiously open-minded, have any merit at all.




The burn-in period is in my mind a real myth! 

If all of the components should change in tolerances values so much so the sound was affected this should be a known problem through the hole electrical industry i can ensure every one. 

When a product get old, yes the components does not measure like it was new, but if the new product did change in mesaured value after 50 hours of use, then it would be a faulty product. 

So burn in a audio cable, Amp, TV, Projector, CD, DAC speakers is a big myth! 

Ask the scientists a Cern at the Large hadron collider if their supra leding cables need a burn in??


----------



## Solude

beolab said:


> if the new product did change in mesaured value after 50 hours of use, then it would be a faulty product.


 
  
 Ding, ding, ding!  Hand this person a cookie.  Burn in is not real.  What is real is thermal stability and that is the period in which a component changes because it's temperature is changing.  I.e. leave your gear on so it's thermally stable and the performance is stable.  Also keep in mind that this change is measured in ppm so... there's that.


----------



## Beolab

Who are you try to call, the Snake-oil Dr or? 

A warmup of your tubes its something else , or thermal heat of a speaker coil change the character and impedance when you are playing on the speaker, but a burn in its something else, can you show us some mesaurements on a amp that is new against burned-in would be intresting. 

Or a cable that is burned-in against a new unused one. 

Show us this i would be glad..


----------



## Solude

beolab said:


> Show us this i would be glad..


 
  
 Not sure if you are agreeing or misread my post.  
  
 The sound of something does not change over time but does over temperature.  But the change is in parts per million.  I.e. you can measure it but you can't hear it because, news flash, your ears can't hear differences when the difference is 1/1,000,000 of a dB or V or I or Ohm.  I.e. the value on the label is the value right now not in 500 hours.  Otherwise there would be two values on the label 
  
 Actual burn in is to make sure the thing doesn't blow in the first seconds, hours or days of life.  Which is to say, good manufactures burn in their gear before shipping so that they know it won't go boom 
  
 That said, class A output devices do sound and measure better once up to temp though in some cases the actual heat from the bias starts to close off the bias so an engineer has to balance heatsinking with bias otherwise bias is literally wasted.


----------



## Vinylman98

This was taken from the Audio-GD website:
  
*T**he Products Have * *10** Years**  **  Repair Guarantee.*

     We burn in all gears for more than 100 hours and check several times before shipping, to make sure that our products have a good quality control.


----------



## Beolab

Received my NFB-1 AMP today, and it sounds fantastic, the only minus it is a little restrained in the bass region, but very neutral overal and have a ultra high detail , with nice transparency. 


Now its very easy to hear the diffrence btw a streaming, CD and a HD song! 

The Tidal HiFi seems blurry against a CD or HD quality. 

I have only one question for @Kingwa 

Is the phase on the left or the right side pin on the Power inlet? 

Best regards

Fredrik


----------



## Solude

beolab said:


> the only minus it is a little restrained in the bass region


 
  
 That's the Hugo coming through


----------



## Beolab

solude said:


> That's the Hugo coming through




Overall fantastic sound, but little light in the bass region, but maybe it is the Hugo that is a bit restrained in the character . 

I have a DAVE on order so i hope it will be better


----------



## Beolab

Maybe its my Artisan WBT Ultimate Silver Dream cables who filtering away the bass also, whats your impressions of silver cables?

My source is a Iphone 5s with camera kit with a standard USB-Micro cable. 

Is it a waist of money to spend 273$ on a Moon Audio Silver Dragon USB - Micro or what is your suggestion?


----------



## Beolab

I tested to switch from my Artisan Cardas Silver interconnects to Chord Indigo MKII last night, and here i got a slight more bass, but it was not as defined as the pure silver ditos, and the highs sounded more mudded and less detailed and far worse transparency, so i switched back. 

Now is the only thing i can think of to switch my standard 21AWG USB micro cable to a Moon Audio Silver Dragon btw Iphone camera kit adapter and the Hugo. 

Does anyone know if a High End USB cable relay can change the sound so it get noticeable and not just placebo? 

Then i have ordered a Aurelic Aeris Mini in black to see if its going to get me to the stage on how i want it to sound.


----------



## sahmen

beolab said:


> I tested to switch from my Artisan Cardas Silver interconnects to Chord Indigo MKII last night, and here i got a slight more bass, but it was not as defined as the pure silver ditos, and the highs sounded more mudded and less detailed and far worse transparency, so i switched back.
> 
> Now is the only thing i can think of to switch my standard 21AWG USB micro cable to a Moon Audio Silver Dragon btw Iphone camera kit adapter and the Hugo.
> 
> ...


 
 The Regen USB device is thought by some of the folks who have tried it to do wonders cleaning up the sound transmitted through USB devices, and sometimes, even enhancing bass... Are you already familiar with it? If not, does it sound like something that might interest you?  Here is a link to their site:
  
 http://uptoneaudio.com/products/usb-regen
  
 And here is the link to a head-fi thread where some owners have expressed their impressions:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/762967/uptone-audio-usb-regen
  
 I just thought I should mention it, although I have not tried it myself, so I cannot offer any first-hand impressions.


----------



## GioF71

beolab said:


> Received my NFB-1 AMP today, and it sounds fantastic, the only minus it is a little restrained in the bass region, but very neutral overal and have a ultra high detail , with nice transparency.
> 
> 
> Now its very easy to hear the diffrence btw a streaming, CD and a HD song!
> ...


 
  
 Hello, congratulations for your purchase.
 I have a few questions for you if you don't mind sharing.
Why did you buy a balanced amp for the Chord Hugo, which is single ended? 
With this configuration, it seems a SE to Balanced conversion is happening. Are you planning to upgrade the hugo to a balanced dac?
 Edit: it seems Kingwa already answered on this topic.
 Still I don't understand if a balanced connection to the NFB1-AMP is someway better than the single ended...
  
 About Tidal Hi-Fi, I assume you are talking about flac. If I read correctly, you are stating there are differences against CD (rip) versions for the same albums?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Beolab

giof71 said:


> Hello, congratulations for your purchase.
> I have a few questions for you if you don't mind sharing.
> Why did you buy a balanced amp for the Chord Hugo, which is single ended? Are you planning to upgrade the hugo to a balanced dac?
> With this configuration, isn't a SE to Balanced conversion happening?
> ...




Yes my Abyss headphones are balanced, so i chosed the NFB-1 for future comparability if i switch to a balanced DAC later on. 

According to @Kingwa the NFB-1 Amp have the abillity to convert SE to balanced signal if you look further back in the thread. 

But a balanced DAC would be the best choice maybe. 

I have compared it with my friends setup and he have the Sim Audio Moon 430 AMP with onboard DAC card. 

The sound are mor dull and lacks more in bass and do not have any better separation or anything is better even its balanced, so that is a good to know. 

So now im up to the final twaks with a better USB micro cable, and a USB Regen. 

Then i have placed a order on the new Chord DAVE for my speaker system in the livingroom, so it will be very intresting to here the result in the headphone rig what it can do also. 

Yes Tidal are using Flac if you listening from a PC or Android phone/tablet, but they are using ALAC files is you are using a MAC or i Iphone/ipad device, and have a max bitrate of 1411 k/bits with Dolby compression, so its comparably with a CD.


----------



## GioF71

beolab said:


> Yes my Abyss headphones are balanced, so i chosed the NFB-1 for future comparability if i switch to a balanced DAC later on.
> 
> According to @Kingwa the NFB-1 Amp have the abillity to convert SE to balanced signal if you look further back in the thread.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks.
 About Tidal again, 1411kbit/s is the same bitrate of the CD RedBook content.


----------



## Youth

I'm 100% sure that I'm gonna buy the uadio GD DAC 19 (10th Anniversary) but I'm not sure if I should go NFB-1AMP or C-2 (11th Anniversary). I know NFB-1 is balanced and C-2 is SE but how do they compare soundwise?
  
 I'm gonna pair them with the new T1.2 which comes with SE but balanced can be bought separately if needed.


----------



## LancerFIN

youth said:


> I'm 100% sure that I'm gonna buy the uadio GD DAC 19 (10th Anniversary) but I'm not sure if I should go NFB-1AMP or C-2 (11th Anniversary). I know NFB-1 is balanced and C-2 is SE but how do they compare soundwise?
> 
> I'm gonna pair them with the new T1.2 which comes with SE but balanced can be bought separately if needed.


 
 I'd go with C2. Balanced just ends up costing more for little to no gains. And DAC 19 isn't balanced.


----------



## Youth

lancerfin said:


> I'd go with C2. Balanced just ends up costing more for little to no gains. And DAC 19 isn't balanced.


 
  
 Kingwa says DAC 19 works with balanced through NFB-1AMP. My issue is not really wether I want to go balanced or SE but rather the difference between C-2 and NFB-1 in sound. I have asked Kingwa, and from my understanding NFB-1 is neutral and C-2 is slightly smoother/warmer. Look at the bottom: http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/C22015/C22015EN_Use.htm
  
 Does this mean that NFB-1 and C-2 sound the same SE but after this change C-2 sounds warmer. Or does the C-2 already sound warmer and with this it will sound even more warm? Yeah, I'm a bit confused.


----------



## aamefford

@Youth Here are a couple of email responses from Kingwa at Audio-GD on the same subject, Dac-19 as source, which amp; C2 or NFB-1 Amp, and connection of NFB-1 Amp to Dac-19 via ACSS to get balanced out from the NFB-1 Amp wit hthe Dac-19 as source:
  
_"If your headphones all can had the balance connector, I am advice you get the NFB1AMP ._
_The NFB1AMP while had the balance drive the headphones, it can show all balance transmit advantage, lower distortion, lower noise, higher SLEW rate , these issue made the sound more neutral , less coloration._
_The metal feet price is USD15. And 15 days leadtime._
_If you don't want the sound more neutral, you want some coloration, warmer, the C2 with single ended output is better suite the taste."_
  
_"You can get the single ended ACSS cable connect to the NFB1AMP, had the balance output."_
_ _


----------



## Youth

aamefford said:


> @Youth Here are a couple of email responses from Kingwa at Audio-GD on the same subject, Dac-19 as source, which amp; C2 or NFB-1 Amp, and connection of NFB-1 Amp to Dac-19 via ACSS to get balanced out from the NFB-1 Amp wit hthe Dac-19 as source:
> 
> _"If your headphones all can had the balance connector, I am advice you get the NFB1AMP ._
> _The NFB1AMP while had the balance drive the headphones, it can show all balance transmit advantage, lower distortion, lower noise, higher SLEW rate , these issue made the sound more neutral , less coloration._
> ...


 
  
 Thank you. This is what he told me as well, but I'm unsure if I have to do the changes described at the bottom of my link to make it warm, or if this is already done.


----------



## aamefford

^^^ I don't know the answer to this one.


----------



## i019791

youth said:


> Thank you. This is what he told me as well, but I'm unsure if I have to do the changes described at the bottom of my link to make it warm, or if this is already done.


 
 Default is the less warm possible. Opening the case and pushing the jumpers produces subtly warmer sound.


----------



## Poimandres

So is Kingwa stating that the Dac-19 is effectively balanced when paired with the nfb1 amp via acss? Even though the dac19 is SE?

Having a hard time choosing between the audio GD stack above or a Mjolnir/gungnir stack. Decided to cancel my LC order.


----------



## i019791

poimandres said:


> So is Kingwa stating that the Dac-19 is effectively balanced when paired with the nfb1 amp via acss?


 
 "Effectively balanced" is a term never used by Kingwa but has been used by some to denote that acss connection is better from RCA connection when feeding an Audio gd balanced amp. The acss connection advantages apply equally to SE only Audio gd amps according to Kingwa, but for some reason I have not yet seen any term containing the work "balanced" used in this case.
 A  balanced version of Dac-19 would be both more expensive and (likely) better.


----------



## Solude

Audio-GD balanced amps use a dual differential input that results in a balanced output whether the input is single ended, balanced or acss.  Schiit does the same thing with the Mjolnir.


----------



## Beolab

If i just could moved a jumper to make the NFB-1 amp a slight warmer i had dune it in a glints of a second, because it is to clear and neutral i think..


----------



## Poimandres

So has anyone heard the Mjolnir, LC and nfb-1 amp? I am curious as to how they compare. I am really leaning towards a nfb-1 amp and Dac-19 combo. Assuming all 3 are on par.


----------



## i019791

beolab said:


> If i just could moved a jumper to make the NFB-1 amp a slight warmer i had dune it in a glints of a second, because it is to clear and neutral i think..


 
 Should be warmer from the SE output.


----------



## Beolab

Haven't tried the SE output yet, but have thought about it, so i will try that directly and see what happens with the warmness..


----------



## camui78

aamefford said:


> @Youth
> Here are a couple of email responses from Kingwa at Audio-GD on the same subject, Dac-19 as source, which amp; C2 or NFB-1 Amp, and connection of NFB-1 Amp to Dac-19 via ACSS to get balanced out from the NFB-1 Amp wit hthe Dac-19 as source:
> 
> _"If your headphones all can had the balance connector, I am advice you get the NFB1AMP ._
> ...




I just purchased a HD600 that included a balanced cable and was wondering if I should go with the C2 or NFB1Amp. I don't have a DAC and use my iMac as the source. Not sure if going balanced is the way to go without have a DAC ATM.


----------



## Beolab

camui78 said:


> I just purchased a HD600 that included a balanced cable and was wondering if I should go with the C2 or NFB1Amp. I don't have a DAC and use my iMac as the source. Not sure if going balanced is the way to go without have a DAC ATM.




My headphone "rig" are brand new so everthing are about to settle, but the bassreproduction are about to loose and it sounds like a high - end speakers. 

The NFB-1 converts the signal from SE to balanced signal, the C2 are only slight warmer if you compare SE outputs in btw, but with Balanced you get better separation and noisefloor are lower, than the C2.


----------



## Luckbad

I cancelled my Liquid Carbon order (well, sent them a request to do so--I don't expect it to go through until Tuesday) and ordered the Audio-GD NFB-1AMP. It ought to pair well with my DI-2014 -> NOS-1704. At minimum, it's the same size box!


----------



## Beolab

luckbad said:


> I cancelled my Liquid Carbon order (well, sent them a request to do so--I don't expect it to go through until Tuesday) and ordered the Audio-GD NFB-1AMP. It ought to pair well with my DI-2014 -> NOS-1704. At minimum, it's the same size box!


 

 Nice choice, the NFB-1 sound better and got more dynamic reserve in the bass area, than my friends Sim Audio Moon 430 Neo that costs 4400 dollar against 700 dollar.
  
   I did also cancel my carbon, it was no problem, Alex just returned my money to PayPal.


----------



## kljash

Is anyone able to have a NFB-1/Liquid Carbon shootout anytime soon?


----------



## Beolab

kljash said:


> Is anyone able to have a NFB-1/Liquid Carbon shootout anytime soon?




I canceled my order on the Carbon just because of the no contest in btw.. 

The NFB-1 sound more rich than 
Sim Audio Moon 430 Neo 4400$ , and got greater power reserve than the Crimson amp, so they are playing in different leagues in my opinion.


----------



## Youth

The C-2 is a beast, I wonder if it can even drive the likes of HE-6?


----------



## Solude

It will power it to roughly 116dB.


----------



## Luckbad

Enough to cause hearing loss in less than 15 seconds? Word.


----------



## Luckbad

Anyone ever compared the NFB-1AMP and C-2 in single-ended? I know Kingwa says to go C-2 for SE and NFB-1AMP for balanced, but I've always wondered why.

Does the NFB-1AMP only use half the amp in SE or something?


----------



## Youth

solude said:


> It will power it to roughly 116dB.


 
  
 Happy that I bought an amp that can drive almost anything!


----------



## Solude

luckbad said:


> Does the NFB-1AMP only use half the amp in SE or something?


 
  
 Balanced amps always only use half the amp when run single ended.  Of course their half is the single ended full so...
  
 The reason the C2 is better single ended is parts selection and voltage rail levels.


----------



## Beolab

luckbad said:


> Anyone ever compared the NFB-1AMP and C-2 in single-ended? I know Kingwa says to go C-2 for SE and NFB-1AMP for balanced, but I've always wondered why.
> 
> Does the NFB-1AMP only use half the amp in SE or something?




I tried my SE output on my NFB-1 AMP, and it felt underpowered so i needed to crank up the volume a bit, but the sound become less detailed and a little dull in transparency, so it was a few steps back against balanced mode. 

So if you have balnced headphones and SE source DAC then go for the NFB-1 but if you are using SE headphones the C-2 are more suitable for the task i believe. 

The difference btw SE and balanced output was like night and day.


----------



## Youth

beolab said:


> I tried my SE output on my NFB-1 AMP, and it felt underpowered so i needed to crank up the volume a bit, but the sound become less detailed and a little dull in transparency, so it was a few steps back against balanced mode.
> 
> So if you have balnced headphones and SE source DAC then go for the NFB-1 but if you are using SE headphones the C-2 are more suitable for the task i believe.
> 
> The difference btw SE and balanced output was like night and day.


 
  
 I guess Kingwa is right after all


----------



## Luckbad

Thanks guys. So I'd need a way to roll all balanced with the NFB-1AMP vs C-2.

Would a simple 3.5mm female to XLR male work for my IEMs? I don't really want to reterminate them.


----------



## DreamKing

There is no point in a balanced amp if it's not for a fully balanced system (meaning + balanced dac and reterminated headphone cable).


----------



## Luckbad

dreamking said:


> There is no point in a balanced amp if it's not for a fully balanced system (meaning + balanced dac and reterminated headphone cable).




I'm specifically wondering about IEMs for the adapter. I don't want to reterminate those to XLR. My main home headphone is already XLR and I'd reterminate my other full size as well.


----------



## Solude

dreamking said:


> There is no point in a balanced amp if it's not for a fully balanced system (meaning + balanced dac and reterminated headphone cable).


 
  
 Balanced headphones of course but any amp that has a dual differential input doesn't care if the DAC is balanced.


----------



## DreamKing

solude said:


> Balanced headphones of course but any amp that has a dual differential input doesn't care if the DAC is balanced.


 
  
 Wasn't aware of this. So the NFB-1 has dual differential input, good to know. Is that what they refer to as "two pair single-ended class A FET buffers in the input" ?


----------



## Solude

You'd have to ask Kingwa if he's writing one thing and meaning another


----------



## Luckbad

These Audio-GD components are frickin' amazing. I love the NOS-1704/C-2 Class A so much that I'm either going to upgrade to DAC-19 -> NFB-1AMP or go whole hog and get the Master 11.


----------



## Youth

luckbad said:


> These Audio-GD components are frickin' amazing. I love the NOS-1704/C-2 Class A so much that I'm either going to upgrade to DAC-19 -> NFB-1AMP or go whole hog and get the Master 11.


 
  
 Indeed. I actually just bought the C-2 but am considering to get the NFB-1AMP so I can go balanced lol. DAC 19 is amazing.
  
 How does the HD650 sound on C-2? I'm considering to buy it with a Norne cable.


----------



## sahmen

luckbad said:


> These Audio-GD components are frickin' amazing. I love the NOS-1704/C-2 Class A so much that I'm either going to upgrade to DAC-19 -> NFB-1AMP or go whole hog and get the Master 11.


 
 I have similar preoccupations.  I have the NFB-! amp which I love very much, and I am wondering if I should add a DAC-19 (which would provide a cheaper, simpler, and more versatile option) or go for the Master 11 (which seems to be enjoying a great hype at the moment), but I can't make up my mind about that...  The idea of going for the Master 11 is based on the belief (without proof), that it would sound better than the NFB-1 + DAC-19 combo, but how much better?  I cannot tell, because I have never heard the Master 11 for myself, nor seen a review that compares its performance with an NFB1 + DAC-19 combo.
  
 Can anyone help?


----------



## Luckbad

youth said:


> Indeed. I actually just bought the C-2 but am considering to get the NFB-1AMP so I can go balanced lol. DAC 19 is amazing.
> 
> How does the HD650 sound on C-2? I'm considering to buy it with a Norne cable.


 
  
 HD650 sounds awesome on the C-2. Mine are balanced, so it's nice to be able to connect it without my converter even though I know it's S/E coming out.


----------



## kljash

Well my order is in the process of being placed for the nfb-1amp, I guess i'll hold on to my LC order and see what they both have to offer.


----------



## kljash

Did you guys get an auto confirmation when you ordered? I just sent them money on paypal with the requested info. I seem to remember getting an auto confirmation when I ordered my dac, hopefully I didn't screw it up somehow


----------



## aamefford

sahmen said:


> I have similar preoccupations.  I have the NFB-! amp which I love very much, and I am wondering if I should add a DAC-19 (which would provide a cheaper, simpler, and more versatile option) or go for the Master 11 (which seems to be enjoying a great hype at the moment), but I can't make up my mind about that...  The idea of going for the Master 11 is based on the belief (without proof), that it would sound better than the NFB-1 + DAC-19 combo, but how much better?  I cannot tell, because I have never heard the Master 11 for myself, nor seen a review that compares its performance with an NFB1 + DAC-19 combo.
> 
> Can anyone help?


 

 Personally, I think you should opt for the Master 11.  This will allow you to sell your NFB-1Amp to me at a reasonable price.  I think you should take this step very quickly, before you have a chance to think about it very long.  The NFB-1Amp and the Dac-19 are not the droids you are looking for.  You may go on about ordering the Master 11...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I'm kinda serious by the way....


----------



## Luckbad

I found a nice monitor stand that fits Audio-GD stuff really well on the cheap as a poor man's rack. Should fit the newer DAC-19/C-2/NFB-1AMP really well.
  
 You can actually buy more than one and stack them by removing the caps on top.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008HPSZPC
  
 Here it is with my NOS-1704 and C-2 Class A:


----------



## sahmen

aamefford said:


> I'm kinda serious by the way....


 
 Of course you are


----------



## aamefford

sahmen said:


> Of course you are



LOL, busted for solicitation!


----------



## GioF71

Hello everyone.
 I have just noticed on the Audio-GD site that a new USB interface KIT based on XMOS.
 What I did not understand is whether this kit replaces the existing VIA option, while the Amanero remains as a further upgrade.
 I saw the NFB-1 DAC page option and the XMOS option is not listed (at least if wasn't this morning when I had the chance to check).
 Does anyone has more detailed information on these new options?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## aamefford

Any further impressions of the NFB-1Amp?


----------



## Beolab

aamefford said:


> Any further impressions of the NFB-1Amp?




I have used my NFB-1 Amp for a couple of month now, and i think it is a great amp that easily compete with Sim Audio Moon 430 Neo $4500 , and are very neutral in the sound, so my rig with the very neutral Chord Hugo in combination gets a little to much neutralness so you need to combine the NFB-1 with a warmer DAC than the Hugo for one. 

The sound are very similar to Hegel / Sim Audio amps and DAC's is my conclusion. 


Other than that i think it can compete with the high end headphone amps up to $3500-4000 easy.


----------



## sahmen

beolab said:


> I have used my NFB-1 Amp for a couple of month now, and i think it is a great amp that easily compete with Sim Audio Moon 430 Neo $4500 , and are very neutral in the sound, so my rig with the very neutral Chord Hugo in combination gets a little to much neutralness so you need to combine the NFB-1 with a warmer DAC than the Hugo for one.
> 
> The sound are very similar to Hegel / Sim Audio amps and DAC's is my conclusion.
> 
> ...


 
 +1 for the idea of a warmer DAC.
  
  I have experimented on my NFB-1 + Emotiva DC-1 combo, with my Sennheiser HD 700,  the Hifiman He-6 and He-500, and the Beyerdynamic T1 (first gen).  It drives them all with ease, except that it makes the HD 700 sound a bit harsh on some sources.  The He-500 and the T1 are very much at home on that rig and they leave nothing to be desired, as far as I can tell.  I could say the same for the He-6, even though from what I have read, I suspect the He-6 could put out more bottom-end rumble than I am getting on this particular combo.  Initially, I tested the He-6 on the NFB-1 when it was hooked up to my Emotiva XMC-1 pre pro, I do not remember feeling the same way about the He-6's bottom end rumble.  Mind you, I am not saying the bass on the He-6 sounds "weak" on this unit by any stretch of the imagination (The He-6's bottom end output matches those of the He-500 and T1 on this rig quite easily).  I'm just expecting it to be more robust, and extend further down than it seems to do on this NFB-1 + Emotiva DC-1 combo, because of things I have read on these forums about the He-6's capabilities, and that is why I am seconding the idea of a warmer DAC, even though I do not know what DAC that might ideally be.
  
 I have been considering the DAC-19, and either the Bifrost multibit or the gungnir multibit, but I am not aware that any of these DACs have a reputation for being particularly warm...  Any suggestions would be welcome.


----------



## Youth

sahmen said:


> +1 for the idea of a warmer DAC.
> 
> I have experimented on my NFB-1 + Emotiva DC-1 combo, with my Sennheiser HD 700,  the Hifiman He-6 and He-500, and the Beyerdynamic T1 (first gen).  It drives them all with ease, except that it makes the HD 700 sound a bit harsh on some sources.  The He-500 and the T1 are very much at home on that rig and they leave nothing to be desired, as far as I can tell.  I could say the same for the He-6, even though from what I have read, I suspect the He-6 could put out more bottom-end rumble than I am getting on this particular combo.  Initially, I tested the He-6 on the NFB-1 when it was hooked up to my Emotiva XMC-1 pre pro, I do not remember feeling the same way about the He-6's bottom end rumble.  Mind you, I am not saying the bass on the He-6 sounds "weak" on this unit by any stretch of the imagination (The He-6's bottom end output matches those of the He-500 and T1 on this rig quite easily).  I'm just expecting it to be more robust, and extend further down than it seems to do on this NFB-1 + Emotiva DC-1 combo, because of things I have read on these forums about the He-6's capabilities, and that is why I am seconding the idea of a warmer DAC, even though I do not know what DAC that might ideally be.
> 
> *I have been considering the DAC-19, and either the Bifrost multibit or the gungnir multibit, but I am not aware that any of these DACs have a reputation for being particularly warm...  Any suggestions would be welcome.*


 
  
 It sounds like you'd like DAC 19 or a Theta. Stillhart has made comparrisons against the Schiit DACs. Schiit are bright where as DAC 19 is natural. I'll see if I can find it.
  
 Edit: http://www.head-fi.org/t/763905/finding-a-dac-for-the-cavalli-liquid-carbon-only-four-months-to-go/1005#post_11872598


----------



## Luckbad

For what it's worth, I have an Audio-GD Reference 5 and Schiit Bifrost Multibit.

They're extremely similar.

Hooked up to an Audio-GD Roc, I slightly prefer the Ref 5. That said, it's fully balanced and uses ACSS cables vs. RCA (I have not yet tested its RCA vs. Bimby).

Into a single-ended amp (Project Ember II or iFi iCAN, I have no preference between the two).

If you have an Audio-GD amp with ACSS inputs, I think you're best with an Audio-GD DAC with ACSS outputs. Otherwise, the Bifrost Multibit is awesome.


----------



## Beolab

sahmen said:


> +1 for the idea of a warmer DAC.
> 
> I have experimented on my NFB-1 + Emotiva DC-1 combo, with my Sennheiser HD 700,  the Hifiman He-6 and He-500, and the Beyerdynamic T1 (first gen).  It drives them all with ease, except that it makes the HD 700 sound a bit harsh on some sources.  The He-500 and the T1 are very much at home on that rig and they leave nothing to be desired, as far as I can tell.  I could say the same for the He-6, even though from what I have read, I suspect the He-6 could put out more bottom-end rumble than I am getting on this particular combo.  Initially, I tested the He-6 on the NFB-1 when it was hooked up to my Emotiva XMC-1 pre pro, I do not remember feeling the same way about the He-6's bottom end rumble.  Mind you, I am not saying the bass on the He-6 sounds "weak" on this unit by any stretch of the imagination (The He-6's bottom end output matches those of the He-500 and T1 on this rig quite easily).  I'm just expecting it to be more robust, and extend further down than it seems to do on this NFB-1 + Emotiva DC-1 combo, because of things I have read on these forums about the He-6's capabilities, and that is why I am seconding the idea of a warmer DAC, even though I do not know what DAC that might ideally be.
> 
> I have been considering the DAC-19, and either the Bifrost multibit or the gungnir multibit, but I am not aware that any of these DACs have a reputation for being particularly warm...  Any suggestions would be welcome.




I feeling the same thing in SQ-wise as you. 

I have ordered a new HE-6 / Abyss 25db gain board for the NFB-1 amp , and hopefully i get a slight more even bass/mid/treble reproduction than the V shape i get today. 
Then i do not need to raise the volume to 40 on High Gain or 70 at Low gain to get normal level any more. 

I keep you updated when i have received and installed it with a small review .


----------



## sahmen

beolab said:


> I feeling the same thing in SQ-wise as you.
> 
> I have ordered a new HE-6 / Abyss 25db gain board for the NFB-1 amp , and hopefully i get a slight more even bass/mid/treble reproduction than the V shape i get today.
> Then i do not need to raise the volume to 40 on High Gain or 70 at Low gain to get normal level any more.
> ...


 
 That would be great.  I look forward to your impressions.


----------



## sahmen

luckbad said:


> For what it's worth, I have an Audio-GD Reference 5 and Schiit Bifrost Multibit.
> 
> They're extremely similar.
> 
> ...


 
 Great, but here is a question for you;  between the reference 5.32 and the refreshed DAC 19, which one would you recommend for the NFB1 amp, that is if it is possible for me to find a Ref 5.32, even a good used one?


----------



## Luckbad

sahmen said:


> Great, but here is a question for you;  between the reference 5.32 and the refreshed DAC 19, which one would you recommend for the NFB1 amp, that is if it is possible for me to find a Ref 5.32, even a good used one?


 
  
 The USB isn't going to be as capable on a Reference 5.32 compared to the DAC-19's Amanero. I'm not sure if you can upgrade it all the way to Amanero.
  
 That said, it's fully balanced, as is the NFB-1AMP, so that's a very good thing. 
  
 Can you find one? Rarely... luckily, someone's selling one here right now.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/777656/audio-gd-reference-5-32
  
 I would've bought it had I not gotten a great deal from a friend on the Reference 5.


----------



## sahmen

luckbad said:


> The USB isn't going to be as capable on a Reference 5.32 compared to the DAC-19's Amanero. I'm not sure if you can upgrade it all the way to Amanero.
> 
> That said, it's fully balanced, as is the NFB-1AMP, so that's a very good thing.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the link.  The item looks very attractive, but do you know whether Audiogd warranties are transferable?  That is the only issue I'm really worried about...  I could ask the seller, if he responds.


----------



## Bombik

EDIT: wrong thread.. sorry
  
 Just a quick feedback guys.
 Today I replaced standard USB module with the Amanero one on my DAC19. It is Not too much work, only two wires need to be carefuly soldered and replaced the modul itself. 30 mins of work max. 
 If you considering it it is definitely worth it. Sound improvement is huge.


----------



## SynthAddicted

Hi everyone,
  
 So I'm thinking about an amp to go with my custom Paradox that are currently in the process of being built. I'm trying to get a sense of what sonic ramifications Kingwa's ACSS approach will have in comparison to the usual voltage amplification->current buffer approach that most headphone amplifiers seem to take. It seems like most people opt for the latter approach with the Paradox (choosing a 2+ watt amp), and report excellent driver control- but they also tend to report that said setups seem to take on the sound signature of the amp in question- but I do sound design and production, and thus am looking for neutrality (which Kingwa's designs seem to be known for). So I am debating between the 1Amp and doing something like using an Emotiva A100 (50WPC speaker amp) or a Lake People G-109.
  
 It's really interesting to hear the 1Amp compared to the Moon Neos, as Bob Katz recently called it a bit polite-sounding on innerfidelity- and he's quite the mastering engineer. I'd love to hear more about it if anyone else has any impressions


----------



## bazelio

Question:  Why are some of you choosing to get the NFB-1AMP to pair with the single ended DAC-19?  Why not the C-2?


----------



## aamefford

bazelio said:


> Question:  Why are some of you choosing to get the NFB-1AMP to pair with the single ended DAC-19?  Why not the C-2?



Balanced headphones and claimed "warmer" signature of C2 in my case.


----------



## bazelio

aamefford said:


> Balanced headphones and claimed "warmer" signature of C2 in my case.


 
  
 Both have XLR phone jacks, so I was trying to decide what this meant from the webpage:
  
 Quote from here: 





> If customer like to keep your headphone with single ended connector (6.3MM), choice the C-2 get better performance than the NFB-1AMP.
> If customer had the balance connector headphone or can modify the headphone with balance connector, choice the NFB-1AMP.


 
  
 Does it actually imply that switching to an XLR cable in order to use the NFB-1 is somehow going to be the better option overall?
  
 The C-2 seems unique in that it has jumpers for adding warmth to the sound.  I don't see the same option in the NFB-1 "Use Manual".


----------



## abhinit90

bazelio said:


> Both have XLR phone jacks, so I was trying to decide what this meant from the webpage:
> 
> 
> Does it actually imply that switching to an XLR cable in order to use the NFB-1 is somehow going to be the better option overall?
> ...


 

 Both have XLR, however in the NFB-1AMP it is balanced and in the case of C-2 it is only there for the sake of compatibility. Check the page for more info.


----------



## bazelio

abhinit90 said:


> Both have XLR, however in the NFB-1AMP it is balanced and in the case of C-2 it is only there for the sake of compatibility. Check the page for more info.


 
  
 I've seen the page and my original question was why folks are choosing the NFB-1 to pair with a single ended DAC-19.  I guess the only response has been to pair it with XLR-terminated phones... but again, the C-2 can also work in that scenario.
  
 Oh well, doesn't really matter....


----------



## abhinit90

bazelio said:


> I've seen the page and my original question was why folks are choosing the NFB-1 to pair with a single ended DAC-19.  I guess the only response has been to pair it with XLR-terminated phones... but again, the C-2 can also work in that scenario.
> 
> Oh well, doesn't really matter....


 

 Ah! to that I fear I have no answer apart from warmth or preferred sound signature.


----------



## i019791

bazelio said:


> I've seen the page and my original question was why folks are choosing the NFB-1 to pair with a single ended DAC-19.  I guess the only response has been to pair it with XLR-terminated phones... but again, the C-2 can also work in that scenario.
> 
> Oh well, doesn't really matter....


 
 The reason that some folks choose the NFB1AMP is that Audio gd rates it a little better on its balanced output relative to the C-2. I have not seen a report from someone who has heard both amps. There is no issue with feeding a balanced amp from an SE dac.


----------



## Youth

Selling my C-2 if anyone is interested.


----------



## bazelio

i019791 said:


> The reason that some folks choose the NFB1AMP is that Audio gd rates it a little better on its balanced output relative to the C-2. I have not seen a report from someone who has heard both amps. There is no issue with feeding a balanced amp from an SE dac.


 
 Agree no issue per se.  Just doubting that going SE in to Balanced out is going to make any difference.


----------



## sahmen

beolab said:


> I feeling the same thing in SQ-wise as you.
> 
> I have ordered a new HE-6 / Abyss 25db gain board for the NFB-1 amp , and hopefully i get a slight more even bass/mid/treble reproduction than the V shape i get today.
> Then i do not need to raise the volume to 40 on High Gain or 70 at Low gain to get normal level any more.
> ...


 
 I received an audiogd Reference 5.32 DAC today, and pairing it with the NFB1Amp, I notice a dramatic improvement in the performance of the He-6 on all frequencies, but especially in the lower end.  I do not have to crank it up beyond 35 (in High gain) to get that "normal-for-me" volume, and very satisfyingly low extension bass on the He-6. With the Emotiva DC-1 and NFB-1 combo, I had to go up to 60 sometimes in order to get something near this type of performance, and even then, I needed to patch the DC-1 DAC through a Sherbourn pre-1 pre amp with tone controls which enabled me to boost the bass whenever needed.
  
 With the Reference 5.32 and the NFB1Amp, I do not need any other pre-amp, and no bass-boost.  I have to add that the magic really is to be found in the balanced ACSS connectors (connecting the 5.32 and 1Amp directly)... I tried the XLR balanced connectors and was a little underwhelmed, but the Sherbourn Pre-1 was still between the Reference 5.32 and the NFB1Amp, so I declared that result as inconclusive until I can connect the Ref. 5.32 directly to the NFB1Amp without the Sherbourn Pre-1 interface. These are just early impressions. I have further experimenting and a little tweaking to do...  For example, I am going to Upgrade the USB32 on the Ref. 5.32 to the Amanero384 USB, and see whether that can produce even more sq enhancements.
  
 I also have the Regen amber which I am yet to throw in the mix.  Can anyone tell me whether one can use the Regen on the Amanero, or whether that would be overkill?
  
 The good news, for now, is that my little quibble with the bass regarding the He-6 on the NFB1Amp is now resolved to my satisfaction, thanks to the Ref. 5.32.
  
 PS.
  
 After removing Pre-1 from the interface, and connecting the Ref. 5.32 directly to the NFB1 Amp with XLR balanced connectors, I can safely say the He-6 now hits about as hard on all frequencies at the volume mark 35 (out of 100 on High gain) as it did when the units were connected via ACSS cables, with the following very subtle differences (which could easily be imaginary, so keep that in mind) : it would seem that music sounds slightly--ever soooo slightly--cleaner--or better resolved--with the XLR cables than it does with ACSS connectors, whiles bass frequencies seem to reach slightly--ever so slightly--lower with the ACSS... But these differences are so minuscule (if they are real at all) that I almost want to take what I have just said back...  Either way, this is the best I have heard the He-6 sound since I got them, and it is bringing a nice smile to my face.
  
 Oh, and there is the upcoming Amanero384 USB upgrade, but frankly speaking, I am finding it hard to imagine these cans can sound even better than they do now... However, I am relatively new to the world of so-called "Summit-fi" cans, so I can't say I have much of an idea how far the rabbit-hole of quality sq can go...  Let's just say that I am really  enjoying the ride! So  Many thanks to Mr. He Qinghua.


----------



## GrdironTrenches

has anyone tried using a project ember or a similar tube amp as a preamp with the nfb 1amp? I'm curious how well that would pan out


----------



## Currawong

grdirontrenches said:


> has anyone tried using a project ember or a similar tube amp as a preamp with the nfb 1amp? I'm curious how well that would pan out


 

 You'd just be adding unnecessary distortion.


----------



## Beolab

sahmen said:


> I received an audiogd Reference 5.32 DAC today, and pairing it with the NFB1Amp, I notice a dramatic improvement in the performance of the He-6 on all frequencies, but especially in the lower end.  I do not have to crank it up beyond 35 (in High gain) to get that "normal-for-me" volume, and very satisfyingly low extension bass on the He-6. With the Emotiva DC-1 and NFB-1 combo, I had to go up to 60 sometimes in order to get something near this type of performance, and even then, I needed to patch the DC-1 DAC through a Sherbourn pre-1 pre amp with tone controls which enabled me to boost the bass whenever needed.
> 
> With the Reference 5.32 and the NFB1Amp, I do not need any other pre-amp, and no bass-boost.  I have to add that the magic really is to be found in the balanced ACSS connectors (connecting the 5.32 and 1Amp directly)... I tried the XLR balanced connectors and was a little underwhelmed, but the Sherbourn Pre-1 was still between the Reference 5.32 and the NFB1Amp, so I declared that result as inconclusive until I can connect the Ref. 5.32 directly to the NFB1Amp without the Sherbourn Pre-1 interface. These are just early impressions. I have further experimenting and a little tweaking to do...  For example, I am going to Upgrade the USB32 on the Ref. 5.32 to the Amanero384 USB, and see whether that can produce even more sq enhancements.
> 
> ...




Thanks for your great input! 

Just have a question about ACSS if its just a balanced connection similar to XLR or what other benefits does it have? 

Haven't have so much time to investigate this circuit system yet.


----------



## Luckbad

beolab said:


> Thanks for your great input!
> 
> Just have a question about ACSS if its just a balanced connection similar to XLR or what other benefits does it have?
> 
> Haven't have so much time to investigate this circuit system yet.


 
  
 It is indeed different. ACSS is current mode while normally DACs convert current to voltage.
  
 There's a fair amount of info here:
 http://www.audio-gd.com/audio/ACSS.htm
  
 It's really awesome to use an Audio-GD DAC/Amp and to hook it up via multiple outputs at the same time, then to quickly swap between them to hear audible differences.
  
 I've found ACSS to _always _sound better when trying that out through a few DACs and Amps.


----------



## sahmen

beolab said:


> Thanks for your great input!
> 
> Just have a question about ACSS if its just a balanced connection similar to XLR or what other benefits does it have?
> 
> Haven't have so much time to investigate this circuit system yet.


 
 The ACSS seems to be Audiogd's own natively developed system for passing audio signals and their related current:  This is how they describe it on their page
 ( http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/RE5/RE5EN.htm ) :
  
  " ACSS (Audio-gd Current Signal System) is Audio-gd's system for transmitting audio signals in the current domain. This concept, first seen in 1966, we have used for many years, and since 2006, have evolved the technology to include all audio signals in our systems from the digital source to the power amplifier. Since 2005, ACSS comp5nts have become Audio-gd's most popular products."
  
 I think they mean to say that "ACSS components have become Audio-gd's most popular products." and, since I tried those ACSS connections today for the first time, I can really  see why... That is mainly because of the power of that ACSS circuit...  And I think they match the XLR analogue cables pound for pound in terms of the power they can deliver... I have been switching between both sets of  connectors since I cleared the XLR balanced path, and I am yet to decide which of the two I actually prefer, as they both sound very dynamic, clean and powerful on all frequencies : to me, not knowing which one to pick as the preferred connection is just an excellent problem to have.
  
  
  
  

 These are the connections I used for the ACSS path... The Audio-gd calls them "ACSS balanced," so I imagine they also have a balanced analogue circuit, similar to the the XLR circuit.


----------



## Luckbad

There is also ACSS unbalanced on some of their stuff now (or there was pretty recently).
  
 They aren't the only company that uses current-level connections, but they're probably the most-known.
  
 Depending on your dac/amp, you might have 3 or 4 pins. The older Ref 5 and Roc had a 4 pin if I'm remember correctly, but the newer ACSS cables use 3. If you ever need to order a replacement, make sure they're the right ones (they can make the older ones for you still, fyi).
  
 Analog Devices has a lot of info on current vs. voltage.
  
 The really short version is that current output undergoes less conversion than voltage, so theoretically ACSS is going to be better for Audio-GD setups than any other options.
  
 If I'm remembering crap I read months ago correctly, a normal stack would basically go Current -> Voltage in the DAC then Voltage -> Current in the Amp. With ACSS, it's just Current from Dac -> Current in Amp.


----------



## sahmen

luckbad said:


> There is also ACSS unbalanced on some of their stuff now (or there was pretty recently).
> 
> They aren't the only company that uses current-level connections, but they're probably the most-known.
> 
> ...


 
 Hmmm... Interesting...   I am really digging the ACSS signal production system on my rig...  Thanks for all the insights.


----------



## HirschiAUT

Hey there everyone.
  
 I am planning to get a NFB-1AMP.
 Mainly to use as an amp for my HE-400i, but maybe also with an old Audio-GD C-10 power amp and my speakers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I have one question i didnt find a satisfying answer yet.
  
 Does the NFB-1AMP come with a free mini remote, or do i HAVE to order the aluminium remote additionally?
  
 50 Euro for a remote seems pretty much, that would be roughly 50% of what i need for the new balanced cable for my 400i


----------



## Youth

hirschiaut said:


> Hey there everyone.
> 
> I am planning to get a NFB-1AMP.
> Mainly to use as an amp for my HE-400i, but maybe also with an old Audio-GD C-10 power amp and my speakers
> ...


 
  
 I got a free remote with my C-2. But it's a plastic one, not the aluminium.


----------



## Luckbad

hirschiaut said:


> Hey there everyone.
> 
> I am planning to get a NFB-1AMP.
> Mainly to use as an amp for my HE-400i, but maybe also with an old Audio-GD C-10 power amp and my speakers
> ...


 
  
 Extra metal remote :  USD50  *

*
 (The unit had free a mini remote control but sometimes the remote had wrong control.)
  
 In Audio-GD speak, that means you get the plastic remote for free.
  
 It looks like this:


----------



## HirschiAUT

luckbad said:


> Extra metal remote :  USD50  *[COLOR=FF0000]
> 
> 
> [/COLOR]*
> ...





Thank you very much, good to know.

Since i just need it when i watch TV or Movies, and thats not too often, i think it will suffice.

But the "want to have" voice is really hard to ignore


----------



## HirschiAUT

Oh well i just checken the measurements and recognised that the unit i want to place the NFB-1amp on top of is way shallower than the AMP (360mm according to the specs).

To check if it would still fit ii would need two measurements:

1) distance between front and back feet (center to center)
2) diameter of the feet, specifically of the contact area

Can anyone provide those measurements?
Would really appretiate it


----------



## session76

I just order the nfb-1amp for my hifiman he6, with the 9db option.  Looking forward to it!


----------



## teofilrocks

Much of the talk seems to naturally be about the NFB-1 and C2, but I'm curious about the NFB-3AMP. Being a Class A design, having a preamp feature, and being in the $250 bracket, I wonder how it compares to the Asgard 2?


----------



## aamefford

teofilrocks said:


> Much of the talk seems to naturally be about the NFB-1 and C2, but I'm curious about the NFB-3AMP. Being a Class A design, having a preamp feature, and being in the $250 bracket, I wonder how it compares to the Asgard 2?



An excellent question. I would add also how it compares to the C-2, since that will be one of decisions many will make.


----------



## teofilrocks

Taking another look at the Asgard, the NFB-3AMP has the added feature of multiple inputs while the Asgard 2 only has one. This is nice for me, as I'm looking to add some vinyl to the mix at work. Wouldn't need the Schist SYS to switch between phono preamp and Geek Out outputs.
  
 Also, if I'm understanding correctly, the Audio-gd changes between headphone and preamp outputs via a front panel switch, while the Asgard 2 only switches by inserting or removing the headphone jack. I prefer the Audio-gd approach.


----------



## Currawong

If the Asguard is like the Valhalla II, then the headphone output is always engaged. With the NFB1AMP there is indeed a switch which activates a relay to change between pre-amp and headphone output.


----------



## teofilrocks

I'm also curious what the recommended or max input voltage is on the NFB-3 analog inputs. I'm guessing since the specs say it can output 10V max on RCA, it should be able handle the 4V from my Geek Out 1000 line out without clipping/distorting. Is a lower voltage optimal?

*Update:*
I asked Kingwa during the order process and he advised keeping input level to less than 3V for best results.


----------



## session76

I received the NFB-1amp 2 days after shipping from China. It was well packaged. It included the plug and small plastic remote.I listened to it at length with my Hifiman HE6 today. To say I am impressed is an understatement. I finally heard what the phones are cable of. The bass is now visceral. Best money I've spent in audio


----------



## abhinit90

session76 said:


> I received the NFB-1amp 2 days after shipping from China. It was well packaged. It included the plug and small plastic remote.I listened to it at length with my Hifiman HE6 today. To say I am impressed is an understatement. I finally heard what the phones are cable of. The bass is now visceral. Best money I've spent in audio


 
 Nice man, what's the DAC you're using?


----------



## session76

For now a geek out. Really sounds incredible. The amp really drives the he 6 wonderfully.


----------



## teofilrocks

Ordered the NFB-3AMP. I didn't find anything out there that could better compete and had the features I need. Didn't need 8W of power or balanced out from the NFB-1. Did need the multiple analog inputs, preamp out, and enough juice for the HD650. Closest thing I found was the Emotiva DAC-1 ons ale for $400, but I don't trust the headphone amp section, and my Geek Out has a fine ESS Sabre DAC. So, for under $300 with shipping and 3rd RCA out option, this little guy seems hard to beat.


----------



## kickaboob

teofilrocks said:


> Ordered the NFB-3AMP. I didn't find anything out there that could better compete and had the features I need. Didn't need 8W of power or balanced out from the NFB-1. Did need the multiple analog inputs, preamp out, and enough juice for the HD650. Closest thing I found was the Emotiva DAC-1 ons ale for $400, but I don't trust the headphone amp section, and my Geek Out has a fine ESS Sabre DAC. So, for under $300 with shipping and 3rd RCA out option, this little guy seems hard to beat.


 
  
 Please post your impressions when you get them .


----------



## hphappy

I want to remove the top cover on the NFB-1AMP but I don't know what size and screwdriver type to buy.  Could someone tell me, preferably with a link to an online source?  I bought a P1 Phillips head screwdriver and I removed 5 of the 6 screws but the 6th one won't turn.  I've also noticed that I have damaged the screw head even when the P1 removed the screw so I don't think that the P1 Phillips screwdriver is the right one to use.   I asked Audio-gd  to tell me the size and screwdriver type and the response "The dia. Is 5MM for the screw 3MM." means nothing to me.  I really appreciate this.


----------



## aamefford

I'm about to order an NFB-1amp. Last chance to sell me yours!! Someone must *need* to upgrade to a Master 9 or Master 11…


----------



## sahmen

aamefford said:


> I'm about to order an NFB-1amp. Last chance to sell me yours!! Someone must *need* to upgrade to a Master 9 or Master 11…


 
 Well, I for one would love to have a Master 11, given the experiences I have had with my NFB1-amp + Reference 5.32 combo... Unfortunately, I am experiencing an overbearingly strong affection for my NFB1amp at the moment, and a correspondingly strong disinclination to let it out of my sight now, a sentiment which is not helped by the fact that I simply cannot afford the Master 11 at the moment, even if I were to decide to spring for it. I respectfully demand, therefore, that you accept my fondest wishes of good luck in your quest for the NFB1amp at a nicely discounted price 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 If you should decide, perchance, that you would rather upgrade to the Master 11, too, I would like to know what your impressions are, as I do, what you think of the NFB1amp.


----------



## aamefford

sahmen said:


> Well, I for one would love to have a Master 11, given the experiences I have had with my NFB1-amp + Reference 5.32 combo... Unfortunately, I am experiencing an overbearingly strong affection for my NFB1amp at the moment, and a correspondingly strong disinclination to let it out of my sight now, a sentiment which is not helped by the fact that I simply cannot afford the Master 11 at the moment, even if I were to decide to spring for it. I respectfully demand, therefore, that you accept my fondest wishes of good luck in your quest for the NFB1amp at a nicely discounted price :happy_face1:
> 
> If you should decide, perchance, that you would rather upgrade to the Master 11, too, I would like to know what your impressions are, as I do, what you think of the NFB1amp.



Well shoot. You're no help! I'll probably order as soon as I can get hold of Kingwa and crew. Though I'll explore the Phoenix a bit more. A nice gent has one in the FS right now, and I recall it being a pretty nice amp. I really want the nice form factor of the NFB-1 to pair with my Dac-19 though.

Long run for me hold the possibility of a Master 11 or Master 7 / Master 7 combo. Dac-19 / NFB-1 as a preamp would then move to speaker rig with a decent ~100W+ power amp. Corse I change up headphone rigs like most change up socks, so who knows....


----------



## Luckbad

sahmen said:


> Well, I for one would love to have a Master 11, given the experiences I have had with my NFB1-amp + Reference 5.32 combo... Unfortunately, I am experiencing an overbearingly strong affection for my NFB1amp at the moment, and a correspondingly strong disinclination to let it out of my sight now, a sentiment which is not helped by the fact that I simply cannot afford the Master 11 at the moment, even if I were to decide to spring for it. I respectfully demand, therefore, that you accept my fondest wishes of good luck in your quest for the NFB1amp at a nicely discounted price :happy_face1:
> 
> If you should decide, perchance, that you would rather upgrade to the Master 11, too, I would like to know what your impressions are, as I do, what you think of the NFB1amp.




As someone who had the Ref 5 + Roc and now a Master-11... Don't let the itch scratch too hard. Upgrade your 5.32 to Amanero and you couldn't bind test between them.

The M11 is amazing, but so is your stack!


----------



## sahmen

luckbad said:


> As someone who had the Ref 5 + Roc and now a Master-11... Don't let the itch scratch too hard. Upgrade your 5.32 to Amanero and you couldn't bind test between them.
> 
> The M11 is amazing, but so is your stack!


 
 I am really glad to know that, believe me.  Incidentally, I already have the Amanero module right here in da house, freshly delivered from Kingwa just a few days ago...  I also have my soldering equipment all ready and primed to go into action...  The only ingredient that is missing from the mix is my own courage, the courage to open the 5.32 unit in order to perform the installation "surgery."  That is because I have never done any such soldering and tinkering before, and I am anxious to avoid doing anything wrong...
  
 I have even found a step by step guide with photos for performing the same procedure at the Audiokarma site, but I am still feeling mighty intimidated to try it on my own. Okay, I do not find the instructions on the page to be detailed enough, but the poster, who is extremely nice and helpful, has agreed to help me, if I have any further questions, so I frankly do not know what is making me so fearful anymore...  I know I am going to get there... soon
  
 http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/amanero384-combo-meets-audio-gd-reference-5-32-dac.678802/


----------



## uncola

sahmen I'd make a few cheap rca cables first just to get some practice in on transferring heat to surfaces etc.  biggest tip I can give offhand is to put a little bit of melted solder on the tip of the iron just before touching it to anything you want it to heat up, the liquid solder will help transfer the heat way more than a dry iron tip, especially if you have the pointy round tip and not the better chisel tip they recommend on eevblog etc.  also helps to have a little melted solder on at least one of the two things you're trying to connect.. in your case probably teh tip of the wire, not the spot on the pcb.. makes it go faster so less risk of heat damage


----------



## sahmen

uncola said:


> sahmen I'd make a few cheap rca cables first just to get some practice in on transferring heat to surfaces etc.  biggest tip I can give offhand is to put a little bit of melted solder on the tip of the iron just before touching it to anything you want it to heat up, the liquid solder will help transfer the heat way more than a dry iron tip, especially if you have the pointy round tip and not the better chisel tip they recommend on eevblog etc.  also helps to have a little melted solder on at least one of the two things you're trying to connect.. in your case probably teh tip of the wire, not the spot on the pcb.. makes it go faster so less risk of heat damage


 
 uncola: Thanks for these tips.  They're really appreciated.


----------



## Bombik

I can recommend this tutorial 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYz5nIHH0iY
  
 also previous part
 Soldering tutorial Part 1
 and also following is fine
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9FC9fAlfQE
  
 Plenty of advices. Helped me a lot..Good luck!


----------



## aamefford

For those in the USA ordering from Audio-GD, are there any issues with customs or insurance with the $180 value declaration, or should I have actual value declared? If I do declare actual value, what is the additional import tax, if any? Also cross posting to the dac-19 thread.


----------



## Luckbad

aamefford said:


> For those in the USA ordering from Audio-GD, are there any issues with customs or insurance with the $180 value declaration, or should I have actual value declared? If I do declare actual value, what is the additional import tax, if any? Also cross posting to the dac-19 thread.


 
  
 I've never had any trouble. You'll definitely pay more (or risk paying more) if it's declared higher.


----------



## teofilrocks

aamefford said:


> For those in the USA ordering from Audio-GD, are there any issues with customs or insurance with the $180 value declaration, or should I have actual value declared? If I do declare actual value, what is the additional import tax, if any? Also cross posting to the dac-19 thread.



I just received my NFB-3AMP at the beginning of the week. They declared it as $100 value for customs. Arrived without a hiccup.


----------



## HirschiAUT

Hey there, just wanted to give a short update.
  
 On Friday i recieved my NFB-1AMP, and so far i am pretty impressed.
 Sounds really good, even single ended with my HE-400i (Balanced cable is on the way).
  
 BUT i have one think that puzzles me a bit.
  
 On some volume steps, most noticably from 50 to 51 and 39 to 40 and back (on low volume characteristics) i hear a short "crack" noise.
 Its not hurtfully loud, but definately there, and annoying.
  
 When there is no signal incoming there is no sound whatsoever.
 And the crack noise is louder the more "happens" in the music at the moment.
  
 My question is if this is a byproduct of the relais volume control and therefore a normal thing to happen with this amp, or if i have a faulty unit on hands...
  
 Did anyone alse have such a problem?
 Would really appretiate any input


----------



## Beolab

hirschiaut said:


> Hey there, just wanted to give a short update.
> 
> On Friday i recieved my NFB-1AMP, and so far i am pretty impressed.
> Sounds really good, even single ended with my HE-400i (Balanced cable is on the way).
> ...




Its normal i have the same crackling noise. 

Its the volume that reproduce this sound unfortunately.


----------



## Luckbad

That's a byproduct of the method used for volume control. For me, it's a small price to pay for perfectly balanced volume that doesn't impact the resultant sound.

At most, I only adjust volume once a song, so it's never bugged me apart from when I wondered if it was normal like you.


----------



## HirschiAUT

beolab said:


> Its normal i have the same crackling noise.
> 
> Its the volume that reproduce this sound unfortunately.







luckbad said:


> That's a byproduct of the method used for volume control. For me, it's a small price to pay for perfectly balanced volume that doesn't impact the resultant sound.
> 
> At most, I only adjust volume once a song, so it's never bugged me apart from when I wondered if it was normal like you.





Thanks very much for your replies.
I also asked the dealer in the netherlands where i bought it from, this is his answer:

""The volume control is very precise and there is no degrade in sound quality, no matter the level you put it. This is very unusual as normal potentiometers will have a degrade in sound quality and specially over the years they get worse and worse. This is a potentiometer free solution and its brilliant. The downside is you may hear some clicks but my experience is this will disappear after a week or two of usage and switching the knob from 0-100 and back a few times after 2-3 hours in use. The relais may be a bit stuck due to transport and temperature differences (in planes) and the contacts of the relais must burn-in a little bit.

Just give it a few weeks and it should get better normally.""


From your comments i think it wont go away, but as you said the sound is so good a faint click every now and then is no real dealbraker.

Only concern is that this will be more of a problem when used as a preamp, i am afraid that it will be more annoying over the speakers :-/

But its still 6 days until i get my used Audio-GD c-10 power amp to replace my integrated amp 

I will keep you updated if it settles or not, and how much of a problem it is with the speakers


----------



## Luckbad

I didn't realize it was supposed to go away over time. I thought it got fainter but I assumed I just got used to it.
  
 I previously had an Audio-GD C-2 Class A that I could hear the clicks on outside the unit (because that never goes away) but not in the music, and my Master-11 seems to be less commonly heard in music too.
  
 That said, I usually use JRiver or sometimes still foobar2000 and tend to use their volume leveling so I don't have to monkey with controls. I only turn that off if I'm getting seriously analytical in my listening, at which point I do have to change the volume at least between albums.


----------



## HirschiAUT

Well i dont listen to music via my computer.

The NFB-1AMP is part of my main stereo system in my living room.
Sources are CD-Player, turntable and DAC with tv and networkplayer connected.

This means my only volume control is of the NFB-1AMP, hence my concerns about the noise via my speakers.

But as i said i will keep you updated on how everything develops.

Oh and i have a balanced cable from ForzaAudioworks on the way, will also post my thoughts on the results with it.
But from what i already heard from single ended mode i assume that in balanced it will grab the HE-400i by its balls and drag em across the room


----------



## abhinit90

hirschiaut said:


> Well i dont listen to music via my computer.
> 
> The NFB-1AMP is part of my main stereo system in my living room.
> Sources are CD-Player, turntable and DAC with tv and networkplayer connected.
> ...


 

 Price for balanced cable?
  
 I would really love it if audio-gd had a black friday sale.


----------



## HirschiAUT

abhinit90 said:


> Price for balanced cable?
> 
> I would really love it if audio-gd had a black friday sale.





I took the mid tier copper cable, 8 wires hand braided, for 125€ with shipping.

http://forzaaudioworks.com/en/product.php?id_product=80

They also offer hybrid cables, and terminate it with everything you can think of, if its not on the homepage just send Matt an email and he'll take care of it 

For 1,5m cable it seems to be a lot of money, but its all hand made with best materials.

Regarding black friday sales from audio-gd, i would not like it and i think it will never happen, and thats good.

Imo they have a similar philosophy as for example Schiit, good products with top quality parts and quality control for a reasonable price, and that price only, no sales or stuff like that.

Unfortunately thats a rare thing, but you know, the customer seems to be happy if told that he "saves" 50% on something, when in reality he actually pays the "right" price


----------



## abhinit90

hirschiaut said:


> I took the mid tier copper cable, 8 wires hand braided, for 125€ with shipping.
> 
> http://forzaaudioworks.com/en/product.php?id_product=80
> 
> ...


 

 But isn't agd heavily criticised on some sites for gaudy and unnecessary bulky designs? THey don't matter to me either way and I'll be buying an amp and dac from them. However, like everyone, I would like a discount to sweeten the deal.


----------



## HirschiAUT

abhinit90 said:


> But isn't agd heavily criticised on some sites for gaudy and unnecessary bulky designs? THey don't matter to me either way and I'll be buying an amp and dac from them. However, like everyone, I would like a discount to sweeten the deal.





Well like i said, deals make the people happy 

But to make deals possible and that they still earn with it they need to set the price accordingly, and that would mean that the rest of the time everyone would pay "too much", at least in my logic, but what do i know, im no salesman


----------



## Luckbad

abhinit90 said:


> But isn't agd heavily criticised on some sites for gaudy and unnecessary bulky designs? THey don't matter to me either way and I'll be buying an amp and dac from them. However, like everyone, I would like a discount to sweeten the deal.


 
  
 Their designs aren't unnecessarily bulky. Just look inside--they're bulky because they are complex.


----------



## Mudshark

hirschiaut said:


> I will keep you updated if it settles or not, and how much of a problem it is with the speakers


 
  





 Thanks, I will be very interested to learn more about this volume pot noise issue, as I am considering an NFB-1AMP for dual duty as a speaker system preamp and as a headphone amp.


----------



## Aplle

Speaking of deals, I requested a price quote on the 3AMP today and found out it's selling for 10% off. I'm not sure if their other products are discounted as well.


----------



## Casualx

Hello
 I'm wonder about sinergy of NFB-1amp and Sony-z7?


----------



## bazelio

I'm not sure how to evaluate NFB-1AMP synergy.  It's simply a very neutral, unoffensive amp.  It imparts a nice sound stage, doesn't color the sound, and perhaps doesn't provide that last level of detail resolution...  but overall does a very admirable job.   So, hmmm, if you're using a DAC that perhaps suffers from HF rolloff, then maybe NFB-1AMP isn't a great pairing.  If you're trying to impart some kind of distinct musical signature through the amp, then maybe the NFB-1AMP isn't for you.  I dunno....  just sorta winging it here, based on what I hear through mine.


----------



## bazelio

abhinit90 said:


> But isn't agd heavily criticised on some sites for gaudy and unnecessary bulky designs? THey don't matter to me either way and I'll be buying an amp and dac from them. However, like everyone, I would like a discount to sweeten the deal.


 
  
 Yeah, I agree with those criticisms.  The AGD form factor is not optimal.  And next to my DAC on the desk, you get the picture....


----------



## Luckbad

They're criticized for utilitarian and bulky designs, not for being gaudy. As far as I'm concerned, the results speak for themselves. 

If this is how big they've gotta be to sound so good, I'll make the room.

I'd rather have something big and heavy with proper component separation and cooling than an elegant and beautiful piece of overpriced desk jewelry.

My Master-11 has its own little desk.


----------



## gto88

Just got my new DAC - LKS MH-DA003, hooked up to NFB-1AMP in balanced mode.
 Sounds better than my previous iFi idsd nano, 6x times in price, so it is expected.
 Overall SQ is improved, bass, transparency and image.


----------



## teofilrocks

Looks like I got the NFB-3AMP just in time? It's already in the discontinued products page. Only been available for 6 months.

*Update:* Kingwa confirmed to me the NFB-3AMP was discontinued because of poor sales. Looks like the NFB-1AMP and C2 took up all the spotlight.


----------



## Timmitus

The NFB1 looks really nice! Does anyone have an opinion on the nfb1 for my HD800s? If I got the nfb1amp, I'd likely upgrade my Teac UDH-01 DAC to an r2r variety. Otherwise, I'm thinking about the Master 9 and keeping my Teac, or getting the Master 11 and calling it quits. My only concern about the M11 is that I'd be better off getting a Schiit multibit . 

Opinions are appreciated, as this is my first headphone setup of any real quality.


----------



## Currawong

If you read Skylab's old review of the Audio-gd Phoenix, that's a good write-up of what the NFB1AMP sounds like with HD800s. I'd ditch the Teac personally. Every DAC of theirs in their latest range I've auditioned didn't sound good to me. Overall though I don't think there is a bad choice between Audio-gd and Schiit Audio.


----------



## Timmitus

currawong said:


> If you read Skylab's old review of the Audio-gd Phoenix, that's a good write-up of what the NFB1AMP sounds like with HD800s. I'd ditch the Teac personally. Every DAC of theirs in their latest range I've auditioned didn't sound good to me. Overall though I don't think there is a bad choice between Audio-gd and Schiit Audio.




Thanks for your help. Is there an appreciable difference between Master 9 and nfb1? Is it just the power conditioning?


----------



## bazelio

timmitus said:


> The NFB1 looks really nice! Does anyone have an opinion on the nfb1 for my HD800s? If I got the nfb1amp, I'd likely upgrade my Teac UDH-01 DAC to an r2r variety. Otherwise, I'm thinking about the Master 9 and keeping my Teac, or getting the Master 11 and calling it quits. My only concern about the M11 is that I'd be better off getting a Schiit multibit .
> 
> Opinions are appreciated, as this is my first headphone setup of any real quality.




If you are in a position to consider the Yggy, then personally I'd go that route over anything AGD. It's just a cleaner, more neutral sound IME. Not to mention no worry about rigging cooling fans and the like. But price weighs heavily too. And of course there's always personal preference.


----------



## Timmitus

bazelio said:


> If you are in a position to consider the Yggy, then personally I'd go that route over anything AGD. It's just a cleaner, more neutral sound IME. Not to mention no worry about rigging cooling fans and the like. But price weighs heavily too. And of course there's always personal preference.



Thanks. I'm contemplating the yggy, or maybe gumby. I definitely need an amp first, though. I'm under the impression that adg amps are very good for the money, I want something balanced, so that only leaves the rag and mjolnir for Schiit, but I don't want the hybrid aspect of the mjolnir. I'm not sure if the rag is my cuppa, either.


----------



## Timmitus

Does anyone have an opinion on this article?: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/first-look-current-source-amp-performance#8xJTmFoFyEESMuXg.97

I'm specifically interested in the HD800 performance. I'm asking this because I think ADG amps are current source and I'm looking at the nfb1amp for my hd800s.

Thanks!


----------



## SynthAddicted

timmitus said:


> Does anyone have an opinion on this article?: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/first-look-current-source-amp-performance#8xJTmFoFyEESMuXg.97
> 
> I'm specifically interested in the HD800 performance. I'm asking this because I think ADG amps are current source and I'm looking at the nfb1amp for my hd800s.
> 
> Thanks!


 
  
 To my Knowledge ADG amps (like Questyle amps if you are familiar with them) have current gain stages but their actual output stages convert back to voltage. 
  
 According to the ADG 1Amp web page http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB1AMP/NFB1AMPEN.htm
 "All Signal Gain is in current area," but if you look at the description of the volume control, it explains how post-amplification it uses the current to voltage conversion it does as a volume control, then sends the voltage along to a " diamond non-feedback buffer output stage."
  
 So AFAIK, it converts input voltage to current (or you can feed it current if you have equipment that does that), amplifies in the current domain, then uses the conversion back to voltage before the output stage to control volume.
  
 Therefore the ADG amps are not current-source amps as described in the article you linked. As far as current-source amps and the HD800 are concerned, the result really seems to depend on the design of the specific amplifier (at least, according to the impressions I have read)- which makes things a bit more difficult. I'm not sure how many amps are out there in which the output stage is in the current domain. The Bakoon Tyll is testing, for example, has a 2.5 million ohm output impedance, while Apogee seem to be a bit reticent with the details on their Groove amplifier circuit. I really think the results you will get with an HD800 would depend on the output stage of the amplifier.
  
 Personally, if I were shopping for current-domain amplification for a pair of HD800 (and I had the budget), I would buy a QES Labs HPBA-2. It's a dual mono (as in 2 power supplies, one amplifier per channel) studio reference headphone amp designed for high-impedance headphones (it has a 164 ohm output impedance, designed for 200+ ohm headphones).
  
 At the end of the day, if you want to know if an amplifier is a current source, you'll probably have to ask the manufacturer or test it.
  
 Hopefully that helps somehow.


----------



## Timmitus

synthaddicted said:


> To my Knowledge ADG amps (like Questyle amps if you are familiar with them) have current gain stages but their actual output stages convert back to voltage.
> 
> According to the ADG 1Amp web page http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB1AMP/NFB1AMPEN.htm
> "All Signal Gain is in current area," but if you look at the description of the volume control, it explains how post-amplification it uses the current to voltage conversion it does as a volume control, then sends the voltage along to a " diamond non-feedback buffer output stage."
> ...



That was incredibly helpful, thank you!

Any idea on the price of the qes? Do you not recommend an adg amp for the 800s?


----------



## SynthAddicted

> That was incredibly helpful, thank you!
> 
> Any idea on the price of the qes? Do you not recommend an adg amp for the 800s?


 
  
 I'm not actually sure what the price is on the Qes Labs amp- they are made (Custom) to order, so I guess you'd have to contact them and ask. Based on the price of their other pro audio gear (mastering compressors and the like) I would imagine somewhere between 1-3 grand, but I really have no idea. 
  
 I have been considering the AGD 1Amp for myself (I have a pair of top spec T50RP Paradox on their way to me from LFF), and while there aren't many reviews of it, there are reviews of the Master 9 (the amp it's based on)- and those report excellent synergy with the HD800. I would say it really depends on what kind of sound you want. From what I've read, designs like the ADG amps (current amplification, voltage output stage) such as Questyle's offerings for example tend to be praised for their neutrality, accuracy, and lack of fatiguing treble (which I presume is due to a lessening of inter-modulation distortion- an advantage of current gain), but some people say they sound boring and too polite. Said people tend to prefer some of Head-fi's favorite amps- boutique all-discrete designs such as those from Cavalli and Eddie Current.
  
 Personally, I'm extremely picky in what I like- for example I ordered my Paradox headphones after listening to a bunch of Audeze, sennheizer, the Oppo line, the UE reference IEMs, DT880 Pros, etc. (and this was out of sources such as a Mcintosh D1000, Oppo HA-1 and Sennheizer HVD800). I even listened to some Abyss at a head-fi meet. Basically, while I enjoyed some things immensely, I didn't find what I was looking for- closed headphones under 1k that sounded neutral. The closest things to what I wanted were T50RP mods (a DIY modded pair and Mrspeakers Alpha Dogs), so I opted for the Paradox. When it comes to amplification, the best reference point I have is actually probably the Rupert Neve Designs console in the studio at my College that I get to use sometimes in my classes (if only the speaker amps in that room were as good). Like Cavalli and such, its circuits are all class A discrete designs- the biggest difference being that it has output and input transformers. Once again, I really enjoy the sound of the thing, and generally speaking it is neutral, but not to the degree I want for my personal reference monitoring setup. Using it has led me to look at the likes of Questyle and ADG instead of ordering a Liquid Carbon or a Schiit amp- but then again, it could just be the coloration of the transformers I am hearing.
  
 From a technical standpoint I also favor current drive (since I am chasing resolution and neutrality), at least within the bounds of my budget, because I don't want any phase shift- which according to what I have read, requires at least 200khz of amplifier bandwidth. I have also noticed (since I follow the high end speaker amp world a bit for fun) that it seems like all of the speaker amps that are mentioned in discussions of maximum possible resolution and transparency are very high bandwidth (As in 1+Mhz). Current drive, as far as I can ascertain, seems to be inherently high-bandwidth (don't quote me on this though- I still need to teach myself electronics lol).
  
 So, if you're like me and you want a headphone amplifier designed for mastering engineers and music producers (fun fact- Thomas Beltanger of Daft Punk just bought one of the Qes Labs amps- it's on their facebook page) that is trying to be as accurate as it possibly can, then I'd say for HD800s, ADG is a good choice but Qes Labs is better. If that's not necessarily your cup of tea, then I would have to know what you are looking for to be of further use 
  
 The other big benefit of the ADG design is the lack of negative feedback- which, being a feedback loop, is inherently time-inaccurate. The solution prevalent in the 6 figure amplifiers these days seems to be multi-Mhz bandwitdh (Goldmund, Soulution, etc) as the higher the bandwidth, the faster the feedback loop can operate, minimizing the temporal inaccuracy- hopefully until it becomes negligible.


----------



## Currawong

If you don't want to "hear" the amp, then Audio-gd is a good choice. I'm using an Yggdrasil at the moment, but if I wanted a pre-amp as well as HP amp (I use active speakers) I'd probably get a Master 9. If I wanted a speaker amp as well, I'd get a Ragnarok. If I had room for a full speaker rig, I might consider one (or a pair of) the Master series power amps and an M9.
  
 Non-negative feedback amps are hard to describe. It's easier to describe what is missing from them. I've found a lot of amps have something akin to a "haze" through the treble -- some form of very subtle distortion which you only realise was there when you compare directly with a non-feedback amp along the lines of what Audio-gd makes. Around the treble of the Audio-gd amps there is simply blackness. I've auditioned similar amps from Bakoon (Japan, not the Korean models) which had this to such a degree they sounded dark, in a way that is hard to describe. The difference is very noticeable with HD800s as the 6kHz peak emphasises it very strongly. 
  
 One of my favourite memories was with the old Phoenix, the first balanced Audio-gd amp. I was listening to a very random mix of music, which went from a quietly recorded track to pop music, at which point I'd turned the volume up quite a bit. When the pop track started, it felt as if the band had jumped into my room and started playing at full volume on the spot. I just about fell out of my chair. It wasn't just loud, it was that the electronics were totally silent between tracks, not even a subtle hiss.


----------



## lukeap69

Very wise advice @Currawong.


----------



## Luckbad

currawong said:


> If you don't want to "hear" the amp, then Audio-gd is a good choice. I'm using an Yggdrasil at the moment, but if I wanted a pre-amp as well as HP amp (I use active speakers) I'd probably get a Master 9. If I wanted a speaker amp as well, I'd get a Ragnarok. If I had room for a full speaker rig, I might consider one (or a pair of) the Master series power amps and an M9.
> 
> Non-negative feedback amps are hard to describe. It's easier to describe what is missing from them. I've found a lot of amps have something akin to a "haze" through the treble -- some form of very subtle distortion which you only realise was there when you compare directly with a non-feedback amp along the lines of what Audio-gd makes. Around the treble of the Audio-gd amps there is simply blackness. I've auditioned similar amps from Bakoon (Japan, not the Korean models) which had this to such a degree they sounded dark, in a way that is hard to describe. The difference is very noticeable with HD800s as the 6kHz peak emphasises it very strongly.
> 
> One of my favourite memories was with the old Phoenix, the first balanced Audio-gd amp. I was listening to a very random mix of music, which went from a quietly recorded track to pop music, at which point I'd turned the volume up quite a bit. When the pop track started, it felt as if the band had jumped into my room and started playing at full volume on the spot. I just about fell out of my chair. It wasn't just loud, it was that the electronics were totally silent between tracks, not even a subtle hiss.




The last bit is really interesting. Ever since I've been using Audio-GD amps, from the C-2 Class A to the Roc to the Master-11, I've noticed something...

When I'm relaxing in my recliner listening to music and start drifting off, I'll sometimes startle awake between tracks, even listening to subdued classical.

It doesn't happen if I'm using other amps either, and I think your comment is exactly why.

Silence is silent. Between tracks is blackness.

My preferred tube amp that I sometimes use out of the Master-11's DAC--a Garage1217 Project Sunrise III--sounds black. But now that you mentioned it, I can hear slight noise with my headphones plugged in if everything else is off. Doing the same with the Master-11 yields no sound whatsoever.


----------



## Timmitus

synthaddicted said:


> I'm not actually sure what the price is on the Qes Labs amp- they are made (Custom) to order, so I guess you'd have to contact them and ask. Based on the price of their other pro audio gear (mastering compressors and the like) I would imagine somewhere between 1-3 grand, but I really have no idea.
> 
> I have been considering the AGD 1Amp for myself (I have a pair of top spec T50RP Paradox on their way to me from LFF), and while there aren't many reviews of it, there are reviews of the Master 9 (the amp it's based on)- and those report excellent synergy with the HD800. I would say it really depends on what kind of sound you want. From what I've read, designs like the ADG amps (current amplification, voltage output stage) such as Questyle's offerings for example tend to be praised for their neutrality, accuracy, and lack of fatiguing treble (which I presume is due to a lessening of inter-modulation distortion- an advantage of current gain), but some people say they sound boring and too polite. Said people tend to prefer some of Head-fi's favorite amps- boutique all-discrete designs such as those from Cavalli and Eddie Current.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the input. I guess my amp wish list, whether right or wrong, would be this:

1) no negative feedback
2) preamp outs for my active speakers
3) otl if a tube amp
4) 4 pin balanced headphone jack
5) fully balanced design, dual mono if possible
6) neutral sound signature, but I'd rather have a more euphonic sound caused by second order harmonics as a result of no negative feedback instead of ultra low distortion and third order harmonics

Current drive sounds interesting, but I know very little about it and am unsure how it will interact with headphones designed for voltage drive amps.

As for ADG amps, I assume nfb1amp is quite good, but the Master 9 is very tempting. I'm just not sure how the m9 is better.


----------



## Timmitus

currawong said:


> If you don't want to "hear" the amp, then Audio-gd is a good choice. I'm using an Yggdrasil at the moment, but if I wanted a pre-amp as well as HP amp (I use active speakers) I'd probably get a Master 9. If I wanted a speaker amp as well, I'd get a Ragnarok. If I had room for a full speaker rig, I might consider one (or a pair of) the Master series power amps and an M9.
> 
> Non-negative feedback amps are hard to describe. It's easier to describe what is missing from them. I've found a lot of amps have something akin to a "haze" through the treble -- some form of very subtle distortion which you only realise was there when you compare directly with a non-feedback amp along the lines of what Audio-gd makes. Around the treble of the Audio-gd amps there is simply blackness. I've auditioned similar amps from Bakoon (Japan, not the Korean models) which had this to such a degree they sounded dark, in a way that is hard to describe. The difference is very noticeable with HD800s as the 6kHz peak emphasises it very strongly.
> 
> One of my favourite memories was with the old Phoenix, the first balanced Audio-gd amp. I was listening to a very random mix of music, which went from a quietly recorded track to pop music, at which point I'd turned the volume up quite a bit. When the pop track started, it felt as if the band had jumped into my room and started playing at full volume on the spot. I just about fell out of my chair. It wasn't just loud, it was that the electronics were totally silent between tracks, not even a subtle hiss.



Is the m9 better as a preamp than the nfb1amp? Because I have active studio monitors as well.


----------



## Currawong

timmitus said:


> currawong said:
> 
> 
> > If you don't want to "hear" the amp, then Audio-gd is a good choice. I'm using an Yggdrasil at the moment, but if I wanted a pre-amp as well as HP amp (I use active speakers) I'd probably get a Master 9. If I wanted a speaker amp as well, I'd get a Ragnarok. If I had room for a full speaker rig, I might consider one (or a pair of) the Master series power amps and an M9.
> ...


 

 I can't answer that as I don't have an M9 here. My experience between the Audio-gd component grades is that the larger you go, the more refinement, detail, separation and dynamics you get coming through in the music with headphones. I haven't tested this enough with active speakers, and nor am I sure how much difference mine would reveal.


----------



## abhinit90

I was thinking of getting the NFB-28 over the NFB-1AMP and NFB-1DAC Combo. What's the difference between them? I'm a noob in the electronics department so I can only see the measurements posted on the site and they seem relatively similar.


----------



## Currawong

abhinit90 said:


> I was thinking of getting the NFB-28 over the NFB-1AMP and NFB-1DAC Combo. What's the difference between them? I'm a noob in the electronics department so I can only see the measurements posted on the site and they seem relatively similar.


 

 The NFB-28 has both a DAC and amp in one box, so they share some some of the power supply components, such as the transformer. Also, noise from the DAC may affect the amp. Compare this to separate components that can have dedicated power supplies and less noise interference. Overall, separate components should perform slightly better.


----------



## Timmitus

Has anyone else compared the distortion graphs between Master 9, NFB1AMP, and C2? The nfb1amp has outstanding distortion with a small second order harmonic. The c2 has a slightly more pronounced second harmonic than the nfb1amp, and the Master 9 has a similar second harmonic to c2, but also has a small third order harmonic. 

The difference is that during the distortion test, the Master 9 used a 0.7 volt input, while the nfb1 and c2 used 1 volt. What impact does that have on the results? It just seems strange that the nfb1 looks better than Master 9 at 1/3 the price.

Thoughts?


----------



## JWahl

@Currawong,
  
 Do you still have the NFB-1AMP and the Yggdrasil, and if so have you had the chance to try them together?
  
 I have an Yggdrasil which I'm using with a higher end XLR in/out tube amp (Trafomatic Head 2) which I'm reluctantly selling as I need the money more at the moment.  I'm considering the NFB-1AMP to fill the gap in the meantime to take advantage of the Yggy balanced out.  Using a balanced HD800 right now.  
  
 Would you say NFB-1 is transparent enough to fully take advantage of the Yggdrasil without "bottlenecking" it?


----------



## Beolab

Put out my 3 month old NFB-1 Amp incl the nice Alu remote for selling , PM me if someone is want it and are living in Europe i can send it to you. 

I have passed on and ordered the ultra SS Class-A high end amp HeadTrip from Wells Audio, should be a nice combo with my black Chord DAVE and Abyss Headphones


----------



## Currawong

jwahl said:


> @Currawong,
> 
> Do you still have the NFB-1AMP and the Yggdrasil, and if so have you had the chance to try them together?
> 
> ...


 

 I can only compare to my Studio Six, so I'd take a guess that you'll have a fairly similar experience to me if I switch over. The NFB1AMP I don't feel lacks detail so much as the soundstage is a bit narrower and the presentation  more plain ("Nothing but the facts, maam!") and not as dynamic compared to the S6.


----------



## JWahl

currawong said:


> I can only compare to my Studio Six, so I'd take a guess that you'll have a fairly similar experience to me if I switch over. The NFB1AMP I don't feel lacks detail so much as the soundstage is a bit narrower and the presentation  more plain ("Nothing but the facts, maam!") and not as dynamic compared to the S6.


 

 Thanks.  The soundstage difference somewhat expected between high end tube amps and SS.  It wouldn't be a permanent solution anyways, but a holdover.  And I can't bring myself to sell my Yggy, I'm keeping that for a long time


----------



## sahmen

*More about my NFB1amp:*
  
 Because of something Kingwa says about power chords, I decided to swap the stock cable on the NFB1amp with a Shunyata Diamondback power cable, and the one on the my Reference 5.32 DAC with a pangea audio chord, just to see how things shake out...
  
 Full disclosure : I have always been a power chord skeptic...  I have made my share of snide remarks about the "snake oil" of "voodoo" power in special power chords.  However, I have always been piqued by what Kingwa says on the NFB1amp site about the difference a power chord can make, so after my last typical discussion about power chords on Head-fi, I decided to experiment with a couple of them and find things out for myself, or to prove to myself that I have been right in being skeptical...  So I got a couple of used Shunyata diamondback chords on ebay, and a couple of pangeas...
  
 I have always liked how the NFB1AMP drives my He-6, but I was initially slightly underwhelmed by the bass, until I got the Reference 5.32 to pair with it... The pair already works with the He-6, and that is why I was not prepared for the difference these simple two power chords have made...  The most remarkable difference is the kickass bass they digging out of the He-6...  I recently got the Fostex TH-X00, and was happy with it, because I thought I should have one bass-head can in my stable, and that bass-head can was going to be it.. Now I am trying some hip-hop songs on Tidal with the He-6, and guess what, the He-6 (with the NFB1amp and Reference 5.32) is positively out-Fostexing the Fostex TH-X00 in the bass-head department... Unbef***ing-lievable!
  
 I have been listening to Jay-Z's Magna Carta.., and the bass on some of the songs sound like bloody earthquakes in my head, and you know what is funny?... I can't take the damn things off either... I'm listening to Jay-Z singing lyrics like "Twerk Miley, Twerk, Twerk," and can't take my cans off, because the bass is sounding almost hypnotic on some of the songs!  Who knew I'd ever enjoy the sound of a couple of subs going at it inside my head?  I didn't, but here I am.  And I never even saw myself as much of a hip-hop fan... go figure!
  
 I think I now fully understand the hype about a "well-driven He-6," even though I am not sure whether the rig I have got now is really "end-game" for the He-6... But damn it!  I don't care anymore whether it is or not... It sounds so good as it is now...
  
 And what I am finding about the power chords is really scary...  scary for my wallet...  I have never really budgeted for power chords before, and I really do not want to start now, but damn...!  I need self-restraint and discipline...!!
  
  
 PS:  "Outfostex-ing the fostex" is not necessarily about the quantity of the bass : I think the He-6 is reaching as deep down in the low octaves as the fostex, but it is better behaved down there than the fostex, which is not necessarily a slouch either.  Some people use words such as "bloat" and "bloom" to describe the mid/subbass of the fostex... I think I can see what they mean, when comparing the fostex to the He-6, although I do not necessarily like the words "bloat" and "bloom" when used to describe bass on the fostex.  On the other hand, I can say the mid/subbass on the He-6 is comparatively "leaner," which does not at all mean anything like "thin" or "lacking slam."  It is simply "leaner," as in more controlled, but also as in "meaner," and in a good way.


----------



## mtoc

Hi guys, anyone heard the C3fv? How is it compared to Master 1?


----------



## Beolab

Sold my NFB-1 amp because i thought it was to neutral and was numb in the bass in combination with my Abyss headphones sadly, but other than that it was an very good amp.


----------



## Astral Abyss

Has anyone tried opening up the C-2 and adding jumpers to the posts that increase the gain to 19dB?  My C-2 has the standard 10dB gain.  
  
 If you've tried this, does it affect the ACSS or only the RCA inputs?  Also wondering if it adds distortion.  
  
  
  
 I don't feel, in any way, that this amp lacks power.  I'm mostly just curious.


----------



## Beolab

I switched gainboards in my NFB-1 amp and you do not gain anything, the only thing that happens is that you do not need to turn up the volume as much, but i did find the bass to get more numb and dead , so i switched back, and then it sounds perfect.


----------



## Astral Abyss

beolab said:


> I switched gainboards in my NFB-1 amp and you do not gain anything, the only thing that happens is that you do not need to turn up the volume as much, but i did find the bass to get more numb and dead , so i switched back, and then it sounds perfect.


 
  
 Well, that's rather disappointing.  Although, it does make me glad I didn't bother with that +9dB option upon purchase if that's the result.


----------



## Beolab

astral abyss said:


> Well, that's rather disappointing.  Although, it does make me glad I didn't bother with that +9dB option upon purchase if that's the result.




That was the result on the NFB-1 because you do not get any more power it is just higher gain , and to high Gain = Distortion / Noise = Thinner sound


----------



## Astral Abyss

beolab said:


> That was the result on the NFB-1 because you do not get any more power it is just higher gain , and to high Gain = Distortion / Noise = Thinner sound


 
  
 So, in that case, what is the point of the extra gain option then, as they recommend it for the HE-6.  What headphones were you trying it with?  
  
 I understand how clipping and distortion will occur if increasing gain too much.  I used to flirt with it in my old Kenwood and Rockford Fosgate powered car audio system back in the day.  This was back in the late 80s/early 90s when subwoofers came into favor in car audio.   I was trying to get maximum SPL out of a custom box powered with a single Punch 45 running 2 10" Fosgate Punch subs.  Which, if you know anything about those old amps, was rather nuts, and people thought I was too, since it really shouldn't have been enough power to handle it.  Thing is, tuned in correctly, it was insanely good sounding and LOUD.  That amp could maintain a respectable THD right up to the point it would clip (and it was running subwoofers in a vehicle environment so it didn't need perfectly linear bass, but it was damn good, competition quality really).  I'd push the gain to the limits to maximize volume to right under that point.  
  
 Obviously that was a drastically different usage scenario then headphones, as I was mostly interested in (clean) bass volume back then, but with a good amp, you can push it up a bit before distortion is noticeable, assuming proper speakers and system setup.  I was just a kid that loved audio and now a middle aged guy that's still a kid at heart when it comes to this kind of stuff.  
  
 Any insight you guys may have helps me in my quest for ultimate audio enjoyment, which is why I'm trying to glean all the info I can from anyone here.  Asking AGD directly is slow and usually results in an answer that I only half understand after the translation.  I'm definitely not claiming to be an audio expert, so I always appreciate insight and knowledge, wherever I can get it. 
  
 Also, looking at the specs of both the NFB-1 and C-2, I don't think the NFB-1 has the jumper option inside it like the C-2 does that adds +9dB.  When I asked AGD about the 9dB custom module on the C-2, and whether I'd really need it, he said to remember I could open up the C-2 and add a jumper for 9dB before dealing with the module.  But... If you read what it says about the jumper, it seems to only mention RCA inputs (didn't dawn on me to ask when I bought the amp), which got me wondering if it has no affect on the ACSS.  Too late now if it doesn't, but this is what got me on the path of questioning I'm currently on.  It was one of those "oh ****" moments, where I realize I may have just screwed up my plan since I won't be able to use ACSS and jumper the +9dB as well. I also don't want to open up my C-2 unless I'm fairly confident that jumper is going to do what I want it to do (not a big deal, but still).
  
 Bottom line is I want to experiment soon with an HE-6 running single ended on the C-2.  I decided against the +9dB module upon purchase because I don't want to blow out my eardrums on, say, 5/99 on the volume knob with my other headphones like the TH-X00 or HD650.  The NFB-1 was a consideration, but ultimately decided against as I simply don't care or want to deal with balanced equipment and cable. I'd rather spend my money on equipment vs cables.  I wasn't quite sure at that time I would end up buying an HE-6 or not. Still not fully decided really, just weighing my options, should I end up finding a pair at a price I can't refuse.    
  
 Also, I don't listen loudly anymore because of my tinnitus (see probable reason above) and sinus pressure issues, but I do want to be able to get a decent volume level on my older CDs from back when they still made them with high dynamic range, should the HE-6 be in my future. So glad I started buying CDs in the 80s or I wouldn't even understand what people were talking about when they mention high dynamic range CDs.  It's sad how poorly most are mastered anymore.  Anyway, that's a different topic... 
  
 Thanks for reading!


----------



## TooPoor

I'm not getting any responses to multiple emails requesting a quote for the 1AMP. I emailed both email addresses on their site and I know this has happened to others. Is there a better email address?


----------



## HirschiAUT

toopoor said:


> I'm not getting any responses to multiple emails requesting a quote for the 1AMP. I emailed both email addresses on their site and I know this has happened to others. Is there a better email address?




Maybe you try to get answers there:
http://www.magnahifi.com/index.php/de/

This is the official dealer for Audio-GD in the EU (besides one in poland i think).
I got my NFB-1AMP there and have asked multiple questions since then, not only regarding the NFB-1AMP but also about my NFB-1.32 DAC and the C-10 power amp (both used from here) and they were always answered quickly and competently.

Even if you are outside of the EU and did not purchase anything you might try, the owners (2 guys) are more audio enthusiasts than businessmen from what i gathered and always try to be helpful


----------



## lukeap69

They were quiet during the weekend but they have responded to my query on Monday. I have already placed my order for a DI-U8 after few email exchange. This is their emaild ID 
audio-gd@126.com


----------



## comzee

Anybody have a experience with both the NFB-1AMP and the Lehmann Black Cube Linear?
 I own the BCL now, use it with my HD800. Amazing out of the box synergy. Wondering if the NFB-1AMP would surpass it?


----------



## eschell27

Getting excited... my C-2 11th should be arriving tomorrow or next day.... can't wait to get this puppy hooked up to my dac-19 10th and give it a whirl with hd650, dt990 600 ohm and k7xx!
 Then a little scrimping and saving for perhaps he-500/560 or lcd-2 something in that price range planar wise to put some of that power to use!
 Any recommendations/experience with a similar setup?


----------



## uncola

eschell27 can you take a pic of the remote and maybe make a video or just let me know how it adjusts volume via remote?  I almost got the c2 11th as a preamp for my speaker system.. would like to know what I passed up


----------



## eschell27

Yah i can try to take a short little vid with my phone later and stick it on youtube or something of the sort... what exactly are you curious about so i can make sure to try capturing it? I have just the little basic remote that comes with it for free, the optional metal remote looks a lot nicer, i bought this second hand and the original owner did not purchase it..,. i may order one down the road as i just like the way it looks... but there is nothing wrong with this one. But just having a decent little remote that works well with an amp that sounds this amazing in this price range is a nice little bonus... if it works half as well used for it's preamp functionality as it sounds pushing headphones it's well worth it. I really dig the way my Little Dot MK4se (with it's stock tubes, upgraded though from the MK4 stock tubes...still haven't tried rolling any yet) sounds but in the last few hours im starting to think this may be better!
  
 Here is a pic of the basic remote until i can try making a video:


----------



## eschell27

Forgive me if this is a silly question... this came with my C-2 11th and i cannot find any information about what it is used for...


----------



## HirschiAUT

eschell27 said:


> Forgive me if this is a silly question... this came with my C-2 11th and i cannot find any information about what it is used for...




I dont own the C2, only its balanced brother NFB-1amp, but to me it looks like a spare volpot.
I dont have a lot knowledge in electronics so i am in no way shure, best you check this with Kingwa directly, he was very responsive when i had questions


----------



## uncola

it's definitely a spare volume pot.  They are the most common thing to get damaged in shipping so audiogd gives you an extra one


----------



## canthearyou

Looking to replace my Gustard H-10. It's between this and the M-Stage HPA-3B. I'm leaning towards this one.


----------



## Astral Abyss

canthearyou said:


> Looking to replace my Gustard H-10. It's between this and the M-Stage HPA-3B. I'm leaning towards this one.


 
  
 It's really hard to beat Audio-gd for the price and the quality.  I like how you can customize their DACs/amps when you purchase.


----------



## eschell27

I just recently got a C-2 11th anniversary. Have a DAC-19 10th Anniversary also. They are hard to beat in and above their price range for build and sound quality. Top notch reliability in my exerpeince and excellent support when needed. I won't think twice in the future about upgrading to more Audio-gd equipment.


----------



## canthearyou

How do I place an order?


----------



## lukeap69

canthearyou said:


> How do I place an order?




Send an email to audio-gd@126.com with the details of your order and request for a quote. Paypal fees and shipping information will be included in their quotation if you are paying via Paypal.


----------



## canthearyou

lukeap69 said:


> Send an email to audio-gd@126.com with the details of your order and request for a quote. Paypal fees and shipping information will be included in their quotation if you are paying via Paypal.




Cool! Thanks! I was looking through the classifieds for a NFB-1, but couldn't find one. Also, it'll be powering He-500. What gain should I get? Thanks!


----------



## Risbo

Hi I'm Risbo and I'm new here. Thank you to all of you whose posts I'd read and enjoyed before taking a plunge and ordering my C2+DAC19 from Audio GD. I should probably continue to lurk and keep quiet at least until I receive and test these components my system, but I can't. Instead, I have a question to ask : has anyone used the ACSS out on his C2 to connect to the XLR on his amp? Can this be done? I know C2 comes with RCA outputs to boot but I want to know if the ACSS output can be taken advantage of by means of a modded cable. I'm presuming there might be some benefit in using the ACSS path, but I may be completely wrong. Can anyone elaborate on this?


----------



## HirschiAUT

risbo said:


> Hi I'm Risbo and I'm new here. Thank you to all of you whose posts I'd read and enjoyed before taking a plunge and ordering my C2+DAC19 from Audio GD. I should probably continue to lurk and keep quiet at least until I receive and test these components my system, but I can't. Instead, I have a question to ask : has anyone used the ACSS out on his C2 to connect to the XLR on his amp? Can this be done? I know C2 comes with RCA outputs to boot but I want to know if the ACSS output can be taken advantage of by means of a modded cable. I'm presuming there might be some benefit in using the ACSS path, but I may be completely wrong. Can anyone elaborate on this?




As far as i know you can only connect acss to acss and nothing else.

The acss system is current based and xlr or rca connections work voltage based (at least i think so...).

I have a NFB-1.32 DAC and an NFB-1AMP and use acss between them.
I did not compare with other connections, but i guess it should outperform the other connections since there are less components in the signal path.

Please take all the above as IMO, i only have a really basic knowledge of amp and dac design.


----------



## Risbo

hirschiaut said:


> As far as i know you can only connect acss to acss and nothing else.
> 
> The acss system is current based and xlr or rca connections work voltage based (at least i think so...).
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for your observation HirschiAUT. My understanding was that the I/V conversion (current to volt) is performed in the volume control within the pre/headamp and that from that point on the signal appears as voltage. But I'm completely out of my depth here, I know zilch about electronics. I asked Kingwa and received this answer from him : 
  
 "The C2 had not XLR output, if you want to connect to you XLR input amp, you had to buy a RCA to XLR cable, and the ACSS can not connect to the XLR power amp.
 Can you take a photo show the rear of the C2 let me check which socket it had?"
  
 Frankly I don't know what to make of these words, on the one hand he is saying it can't be done, on the other hand he is asking to see the sockets on the amp (he is not realising that I'm his very recent customer). Still, for whatever reason, it looks like it can't be done.


----------



## HirschiAUT

risbo said:


> Thanks for your observation HirschiAUT. My understanding was that the I/V conversion (current to volt) is performed in the volume control within the pre/headamp and that from that point on the signal appears as voltage. But I'm completely out of my depth here, I know zilch about electronics. I asked Kingwa and received this answer from him :
> 
> "The C2 had not XLR output, if you want to connect to you XLR input amp, you had to buy a RCA to XLR cable, and the ACSS can not connect to the XLR power amp.
> Can you take a photo show the rear of the C2 let me check which socket it had?"
> ...




Afaik inside the amp all runs as current, there is conversion after the standerd (rca and xlr) inputs and before the standard outputs.
The benefit of using acss is that there is no conversion, so the signal runs as current throughout.
But this is only possible between Audio-GD and some krell units.

I guess he wants to see the backside because they customize a lot, so that he can give the best advice in your case.
I also have the AudioGD C-10 power amp and wanted to run acss from my pre, but after he got pics of the connections he confirmed that its not possible.
The power amp is an old version that needs some kind of data input to trigger the acss mode or whatevs... anyways, all my interaction with him was really helpful, but i admit his english is pretty challenging :-D


----------



## Risbo

hirschiaut said:


> Afaik inside the amp all runs as current, there is conversion after the standerd (rca and xlr) inputs and before the standard outputs.
> The benefit of using acss is that there is no conversion, so the signal runs as current throughout.
> But this is only possible between Audio-GD and some krell units.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Now I get it. Thanks for making it clear HirshiAUT, that question has been bugging me for days. All in all, Kingwa's been amazing so far but that Google translate of his does let him down sometimes.


----------



## Botudi

anyone using the nfb 1 amp in a 2.1 system ?
 wondering which device will benefit more from the xlr connection from the preamp: the amplifier or the sub ?


----------



## gto88

currawong said:


> MrSpeakers Ethers, HD800s, HE1000s and LCD-X.
> 
> It's going to sit for a while in the living room system as a pre-amp while it has some hours put on it. There was plenty of the usual Audio-gd spacious, get-out-of-the-way-of-the-music signature. A brief A/B with my Studio Six had the big tube amp besting it for micro and macro dynamics, but considering the vast difference in prices the smaller amp wasn't at all put to shame. What was nice was how it delivered the bass with the Ethers, especially given how I've rolled warmer tubes into the Studio Six.


 
 May I ask, what is your take of NFB-1AMP driving HE1000.


----------



## Currawong

gto88 said:


> currawong said:
> 
> 
> > MrSpeakers Ethers, HD800s, HE1000s and LCD-X.
> ...


 

 Good question! I just plugged them in, and much the same deal as I already wrote. I like the way the smoothness in the treble of the NFB1AMP works with the HE1000s. Tempting me to consider a Master 9 for them now actually.


----------



## gto88

currawong said:


> Good question! I just plugged them in, and much the same deal as I already wrote. I like the way the smoothness in the treble of the NFB1AMP works with the HE1000s. Tempting me to consider a Master 9 for them now actually.


 

 Thanks for replied. That is great news to me. Some reviews on HE1000 report mixed on treble. While I am not sure I can sense the difference, but it is good
 to know that this amp can go along with HE1000.


----------



## Bruch

I was looking for a balanced headphone amplifier in the $500-600 price range and hit upon the Audio-GD NFB-1 amp. There are not very many reviews on the internet but encouraged by the positive reviews of the Audio-GD Master 9 and on the basis that the NFB-1 amp adopted similar technology to its bigger brother I decided to take the plunge.
  
 I am very pleased with the purchase.
  
 My main listening headphones are Sennheiser HD650’s and Sony XBA-Z5 IEM’s. The NFB-1 works amazingly with both. I had previously been using an O2 amp, upgraded with a Burson Z5. I was expecting an upgrade in sound quality for the HD650’s, mainly because of the extra power but wasn’t sure if I would detect any noticeable difference with the XBA-Z5’s. I needn’t have worried. The difference is immediately obvious and worth the extra investment.
  
 Most noticeable differences are in the micro-details. Instrument separation is much clearer and 3-dimensional placement much more discernible. Overall the listening experience is just much more satisfying.
  
 This was my first purchase from Audio-gd and I wouldn’t hesitate to buy from them again.


----------



## Botudi

^ as far as I know AGD amps are advertised as too powerful for in-ear headphones, so be careful and don't let yourself carried away by the newly discovered sound upgrade and keep the volume low 
  
 AGD stuff is quite impressive.....more so when you see the bill


----------



## Bruch

I suppose it depends on the sensitivity of the IEM. XBA Z5's are not so sensitive and work just fine. Amazing in fact. I built a very simple adapter from 4-pin xlr to twin 3.5mm jacks and run them in balanced mode.


----------



## krzysmac

G'day,
  
 Does anyone use/heard LCD-X with NFB-1AMP? How do they pair up with the amp? Does it have enough power/current to drive low impedance LCD-X?
  
 I'm considering getting NFB-1AMP and DAC-19 instead of Master 11. That combo will save me nearly 800AUD (not including import taxes and GST) - more money for music.
  
 From what I've read here on Head-Fi, people recommend to have balanced NFB-1AMP plus DAC-19 over C2 (11 anniversary edition) plus DAC-19 if you have balanced phones. LCD-X come with SE and balanced stock cables. So there could be an advantage of using balanced NFB-1AMP over SE C2, wouldn't be?.
 I don't have a lot of experience in audio, I'm learning a lot from you over here. I have never heard balanced amp so I don't really have experience between SE and balanced amp sound signature. I don't know what to expect . What is your opinion and recommendation? The price difference is minor between C2 and NFB-1AMP. Is it worth to get balanced over SE?
  
 cheers
  
 Kristof


----------



## Youth

krzysmac said:


> G'day,
> 
> Does anyone use/heard LCD-X with NFB-1AMP? How do they pair up with the amp? Does it have enough power/current to drive low impedance LCD-X?
> 
> ...


 
  
 DAC-19 is single ended and NFB-1AMP is balanced, so you'd have to get the C-2 instead. And yes, it can drive the LCD-X with no problems.


----------



## uelover

krzysmac said:


> G'day,
> 
> Does anyone use/heard LCD-X with NFB-1AMP? How do they pair up with the amp? Does it have enough power/current to drive low impedance LCD-X?
> 
> ...


 
  
 NFB-1AMP with LCD-X (balanced) is fine. 
  
 You can connect the DAC-19 with NFB-1AMP with the ACSS cable (which is what I am doing now).


----------



## Astral Abyss

youth said:


> DAC-19 is single ended and NFB-1AMP is balanced, so you'd have to get the C-2 instead. And yes, it can drive the LCD-X with no problems.


 
  
 You can use either amp with the DAC-19.  NFB-1AMP has both RCA and ACSS inputs, both of which sound great out of the DAC-19.
  
 ACSS is how I connect my DAC-19 to my C-2.
  
 krzysmac,
 That's a great choice to save some money.  You won't be sorry.  Also, you could literally blow your eardrums out and smoke the LCD-X with that amp.  It's got loads of clean power.  My C-2 sounds wonderful with my LCD-2s.


----------



## eschell27

To the best of my knowledge though, I was under the impression that in order for it to be truly balanced what you really need is a balanced dac >balanced connection to amp> balanced amp then u can worry about whether or not you connect balanced headphones? But as far as power goes from the amp to headphones, if you have a balanced amp and connect SE headphones you end up getting roughly half the max output as compared to a pair of balanced headphones? So for this situation i would think it would depend on your collection of headphones you plan on using, if you have both SE and balanced headphones i would think going with the C2 would give u the best bang for the buck since you can connect balanced 4 pin XLR and SE 1/4in both getting all the power but if u get the nfb-1amp you would not be getting all the power with SE headphones. And since the dac-19 is not balanced anyway you aren't getting a real balanced signal no matter what?
  
 I'm still somewhat new to all this so i may very well be wrong with some of that. Only trying to help! Set me right if i'm wrong! haha


----------



## Currawong

krzysmac said:


> G'day,
> 
> Does anyone use/heard LCD-X with NFB-1AMP? How do they pair up with the amp? Does it have enough power/current to drive low impedance LCD-X?
> 
> ...


 
  
 The NFB1AMP has more than enough power for Audeze headphones. Since the LCD-X comes with a 4-pin XLR cable then you don't have to worry about the connection to the amp. 
  
 Basically with Audio-gd, the bigger the power supply, the better the clarity. I think either amp would be fine.


----------



## Youth

astral abyss said:


> You can use either amp with the DAC-19.  NFB-1AMP has both RCA and ACSS inputs, both of which sound great out of the DAC-19.
> 
> ACSS is how I connect my DAC-19 to my C-2.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Kingwa recommends C-2 with DAC-19, I'm pretty sure he does that for a reason.


----------



## uelover

youth said:


> Kingwa recommends C-2 with DAC-19, I'm pretty sure he does that for a reason.


 
  
 Kingwa recommends C-2 with DAC-19 if your headphone is single ended.
  
 Otherwise, he recommends NFB1AMP with DAC-19 of your headphone is balanced.
  
 Neither is superior than the other. It depends on your usage.


----------



## krzysmac

eschell27 said:


> To the best of my knowledge though, I was under the impression that in order for it to be truly balanced what you really need is a balanced dac >balanced connection to amp> balanced amp then u can worry about whether or not you connect balanced headphones? But as far as power goes from the amp to headphones, if you have a balanced amp and connect SE headphones you end up getting roughly half the max output as compared to a pair of balanced headphones? So for this situation i would think it would depend on your collection of headphones you plan on using, if you have both SE and balanced headphones i would think going with the C2 would give u the best bang for the buck since you can connect balanced 4 pin XLR and SE 1/4in both getting all the power but if u get the nfb-1amp you would not be getting all the power with SE headphones. And since the dac-19 is not balanced anyway you aren't getting a real balanced signal no matter what?
> 
> I'm still somewhat new to all this so i may very well be wrong with some of that. Only trying to help! Set me right if i'm wrong!


 
 thanks, it make sense looking from that perspective, however it doesn't make my choice (nfb-1amp or c2) easier 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 still deciding. I will use lcd-x mostly, I think. I also have old HD580. they SE and I use them with LD MKIII amp which is not a good match for lcd-x. I may sell the LD MKIII or keep it. I am also keen to try to DIY balanced cable for senheiser so NBF-1AMP would be better. Otherwise it would make sense to have just C2 for both of the cans and maybe sell LD MKIII. Many things to think about  I'll see how the LCD-X will compare with HD580. I should have my new phones soon, next week.
  
 Kristof


----------



## lukeap69

krzysmac said:


> thanks, it make sense looking from that perspective, however it doesn't make my choice (nfb-1amp or c2) easier
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 How about Master 11? You will get a balanced DAC and amp in one unit. I reckon this would be better than DAC-19 + NFB-1Amp combination. I know I am not helping making this any easier.


----------



## Youth

uelover said:


> Kingwa recommends C-2 with DAC-19 if your headphone is single ended.
> 
> Otherwise, he recommends NFB1AMP with DAC-19 of your headphone is balanced.
> 
> Neither is superior than the other. It depends on your usage.


 
  
 I see


----------



## krzysmac

lukeap69 said:


> How about Master 11? You will get a balanced DAC and amp in one unit. I reckon this would be better than DAC-19 + NFB-1Amp combination. I know I am not helping making this any easier.


 
 haha yeah I know, I wish... master 11 would be a great choice, but the price is a factor here. It's nearly $800AUD more than the combo plus import tax and GST. I can buy quite a few LP and CDs for $800 and that makes the combo a great alternative and it provides about 95% of M11 according to those who had a luck to hear both. Choices. Decisions....all ahead of me. thank you all for your advice's. That's what I like about the forum, you get a lot of different opinions.


----------



## lukeap69

krzysmac said:


> haha yeah I know, I wish... master 11 would be a great choice, but the price is a factor here. It's nearly $800AUD more than the combo plus import tax and GST. I can buy quite a few LP and CDs for $800 and that makes the combo a great alternative and it provides about 95% of M11 according to those who had a luck to hear both. Choices. Decisions....all ahead of me. thank you all for your advice's. That's what I like about the forum, you get a lot of different opinions.


 
 Understood.
  
 When I purchased my DAC-19, I did not know that Master 11 would be released within couple of months. Had I known it, I might be rocking a Master 11 rather than a DAC-19. I am not pulling your leg - true story.


----------



## mtoc

the distortion of NFB-1AMP is just wow, slightly better than Master 9.


----------



## Bombik

Hi, I am proud and satisfied owner of agd Precision 2. Using it mostly as headphone amp with DAC19 these days.
 But.. I am also thinking about building up second HP rig in second room. Please, did anyone of You have a chance to listen and compare Precision 1, P2 with NFB 1 Amp or C2 amp? 
 I am wondering wherether the SQ is near the level of P2,DAC19 combo?
  
 By now I am leaning more towards separate units then all in one solution/NFB28,M11.
 Thanks for any idea.


----------



## mtoc

bombik said:


> did anyone of You have a chance to listen and compare Precision 1, P2 with NFB 1 Amp or C2 amp?


 
  
 Nobody knows this as far as I know.


----------



## Astral Abyss

Has anyone with the C-2 compared the balanced connection vs the SE connection?  
  
 Just curious if there's any benefit/detriment to the power or signal if I plug into balanced.  I realize it's not a balanced amp, but I'm thinking of re-cabling some headphones and would rather put balanced connectors on them.  Unfortunately I don't have any headphones with both cable types to directly compare.


----------



## HirschiAUT

I think kingwa himself said that the balanced plug on the C1 is just for convenience, just like the SE connector of the NFB-1AMP.
The performance SHOULD be better on the SE of the C1, but i did not test that on my NFB-1AMP.

But if you want to recable with balanced plug, just build a simple XLR to SE adapter and you will be set for all cases


----------



## i019791

hirschiaut said:


> I think kingwa himself said that the balanced plug on the C1 is just for convenience, just like the SE connector of the NFB-1AMP.
> The performance SHOULD be better on the SE of the C1, but i did not test that on my NFB-1AMP.
> 
> But if you want to recable with balanced plug, just build a simple XLR to SE adapter and you will be set for all cases


 
 The XLR connection of the C-2 amp is indeed for convenience, but I can't see why it *should* necessary be worse than the SE connection. One should test both outputs before any judgment.
 I think Kingwa has implied that the XLR connection of the NFB-1 amp is slightly better than (any) connection of the C-2 amp and better than the SE connection of the NFB-1 amp.
 The performance of the C-2 obviously cannot be tested on the NFB-1 amp.


----------



## elwappo99

bombik said:


> Hi, I am proud and satisfied owner of agd Precision 2. Using it mostly as headphone amp with DAC19 these days.
> But.. I am also thinking about building up second HP rig in second room. Please, did anyone of You have a chance to listen and compare Precision 1, P2 with NFB 1 Amp or C2 amp?
> I am wondering wherether the SQ is near the level of P2,DAC19 combo?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I don't think you'll find anyone has. These are pretty rare units and its unlikely someone has them all.
  
 However, if you have sensitive headphones or IEMs then the C2 or NFB1 would definitely be a better choice. 
  
  


mtoc said:


> the distortion of NFB-1AMP is just wow, slightly better than Master 9.


 
  
 Definitely surprising. Considering the price gap I'd grab the NFB1.
  
  


astral abyss said:


> Has anyone with the C-2 compared the balanced connection vs the SE connection?
> 
> Just curious if there's any benefit/detriment to the power or signal if I plug into balanced.  I realize it's not a balanced amp, but I'm thinking of re-cabling some headphones and would rather put balanced connectors on them.  Unfortunately I don't have any headphones with both cable types to directly compare.


 
  
  
 On the C2 the XLR jack is wired the same as the SE. There wouldn't be any difference. 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
 I have a previous version of the C2 Class A (version just before this 11th anniversary version). I'm totally digging the unit. Sounds totally terrific and a very dark background. Sounds perfect with my ultimate ears reference monitor.


----------



## HirschiAUT

i019791 said:


> The XLR connection of the C-2 amp is indeed for convenience, but I can't see why it *should* necessary be worse than the SE connection. One should test both outputs before any judgment.
> I think Kingwa has implied that the XLR connection of the NFB-1 amp is slightly better than (any) connection of the C-2 amp and better than the SE connection of the NFB-1 amp.
> The performance of the C-2 obviously cannot be tested on the NFB-1 amp.




I dont really know much details on the C-2, but as far as the NFB-1AMP goes i am pretty sure that the xlr has multiple times the power compared to the SE output.
And besides that the XLR also utilizes all parts of the amp, and the SE bypasses parts of its balanced structure.
If and how much this affects the sound i cant tell though, and since i only use the XLR with my headphones i cant test it all too well 

In the end i would just go with the output the amp was built around and have an adapter ready if needed.


----------



## Currawong

A regular, single-ended amp has an amplifier circuit on the positive part of the connection to your headphones, and the negative just returns the signal to ground.
  
 A "balanced" amp (technically not a great description) has amplification on both the positive and the signal return. If you used the singled-ended socket in one of the Audio-gd amps, you'll indeed not be using half the circuit.


----------



## GodsInHisHeaven

I am a litte confused here ... the DAC 19 is a single ended DAC, so coupling it with the NFB-1AMP would lead to a not fully balanced chain, right?
 By the way, what are the benefits of also having a balanced DAC?
  
 Apparently you can get the option for both the DAC 19 and NFB-1AMP to get mini-xlr instead of the ACSS interconnection.


----------



## borrego

The higher end audio-gd preamp like the Master 1 and Master 9 can covert single ended input through its ACSS circuitary and output fully balanced signal through its 4 output buffer circuit. I am not sure if the NFB1Amp could do the same.


----------



## comzee

Has anybody been using the C-2 with hd800, how does it pair?


----------



## Astral Abyss

comzee said:


> Has anybody been using the C-2 with hd800, how does it pair?



I haven't tried my HD800 with my C-2 but I could... maybe tonight.


----------



## comzee

astral abyss said:


> I haven't tried my HD800 with my C-2 but I could... maybe tonight.


 
 That would be helpful, I own a Lehmann BCL that I'm using with my HD800 right now.
 I like the pairing, but I feel like I could get a more articulated sound. The BCL albeit highly detailed, still has a relaxed feel, and not great soundstage.
  
 I'm using it with my agd Master7.


----------



## Astral Abyss

comzee said:


> That would be helpful, I own a Lehmann BCL that I'm using with my HD800 right now.
> I like the pairing, but I feel like I could get a more articulated sound. The BCL albeit highly detailed, still has a relaxed feel, and not great soundstage.
> 
> I'm using it with my agd Master7.




I use my C2 with a DAC-19 connected via ACSS.


----------



## Astral Abyss

comzee said:


> That would be helpful, I own a Lehmann BCL that I'm using with my HD800 right now.
> I like the pairing, but I feel like I could get a more articulated sound. The BCL albeit highly detailed, still has a relaxed feel, and not great soundstage.
> 
> I'm using it with my agd Master7.


 
  
 Spent an hour or so listening to the DAC-19/C-2/HD-800 combo today.  Wasn't all that enamored with it.  A bit too dry and lifeless sounding for my tastes.  I had to increase the volume past my comfort level to get more life and dynamics out of the combo. Also, I had to use a bit of EQ to boost the bass or it was just painfully harsh. 
  
 I was listening to a varied collection of prog rock (Yes, Starcastle, Rush, Muse), prog/death metal (Between the Buried and Me, Born of Osiris), hard rock (Drivin and Cryin), pop (Annie Lennox), new wave/synthpop (New Order, OMD).  At that point I lost interest in this ever being a combo I would want to use. 
  
 I normally use my HD800 with my Yggdrasil and Ember 2, and the pairing is a lot better. Yeah I know the Yggdrasil and Ember 2 is a weird pairing, but it works and works well.  Tubes really help dull the HD800 razer-blade sharpness in a pleasing way.  I may add a Ragnarok to the mix eventually and use the Ember as a tube buffer, but not until I see what new magical boxes of wonder that Schiit has in store for us this year.
  
 My favorite headphones to use with the DAC-19/C-2 combo is either the HE-400i or the LCD-XC for open vs closed listening.


----------



## HirschiAUT

astral abyss said:


> Spent an hour or so listening to the DAC-19/C-2/HD-800 combo today.  Wasn't all that enamored with it.  A bit too dry and lifeless sounding for my tastes.  I had to increase the volume past my comfort level to get more life and dynamics out of the combo. Also, I had to use a bit of EQ to boost the bass or it was just painfully harsh.
> 
> I was listening to a varied collection of prog rock (Yes, Starcastle, Rush, Muse), prog/death metal (Between the Buried and Me, Born of Osiris), hard rock (Drivin and Cryin), pop (Annie Lennox), new wave/synthpop (New Order, OMD).  At that point I lost interest in this ever being a combo I would want to use.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have the NFB 1.32 DAC and the NFB-1AMP and really love that combo with my HE-400i too 
  
 I also own the Oppo-PM3, most of the time for portable use, but when connected to the NFB combo the are also very nice.
  
 IMO and to my ears, the Audio-GD stuff is just dead neutral and lets you "hear" the rest of your chain, which is both good and bad 
  
 I also have the C-10 Power amp in my speaker setup, and i had to get rid of my Triangle speakers (horn tweeters) because that combo was too treble oriented.
 With the also very neutral Von Schweikert VR-4jr the system now shines again, pure joy without fatigue even for multiple hours in one session


----------



## Astral Abyss

hirschiaut said:


> I have the NFB 1.32 DAC and the NFB-1AMP and really love that combo with my HE-400i too
> 
> I also own the Oppo-PM3, most of the time for portable use, but when connected to the NFB combo the are also very nice.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I really like how quiet the Audio-gd amps are.  Even with low impedance headphones, there's no background noise.


----------



## mtoc

Folks, is nfb1-amp ok with iem? Won't we hear any noise?


----------



## Bruch

It's not recommended for IEM but I do use it. I use it in balanced mode with Sony XBA Z5's to very good effect.

I tried it in SE mode with Shure SE535's but wasn't very impressed, although noise wasn't a huge problem

If you are going to use it for IEM's I would suggest:
1) It's only really suitable for less efficient IEM's that need more power (such as the Sonys).
2) Use it in balanced mode - this will probably require an after-market cable.
3) Be careful not to blow your eardrums - although the amp does re-set to 0 volume on each start-up, so that is a useful safety feature.


----------



## hekeli

Is anyone having low volume imbalance on NFB-1AMP (or Masters with similar volume control?) ? I'm getting sound bleeding from right channel even at ZERO volume and the imbalance keeps until 5-10 volume.. I don't remember it doing this before so I guess some component is fishy.


----------



## HirschiAUT

hekeli said:


> Is anyone having low volume imbalance on NFB-1AMP (or Masters with similar volume control?) ? I'm getting sound bleeding from right channel even at ZERO volume and the imbalance keeps until 5-10 volume.. I don't remember it doing this before so I guess some component is fishy.


 

 I also have the NFB-1AMP but never noticed anything like this.
  
 All i know is that it has no proper "zero sound" level, there is always a little bit of sound getting through, although perfectly balanced/centered at my unit.
  
 Maybe just shoot Kingwa an email, he usually is very responsive and helpful.
 If something is really wrong you should be covered by the 10 Year warranty.
  
 Should there be the case that you have to get it repaired, you can also do that at one of Audio-GDs partners.
 One of them is in the EU, Magna-Hifi:  http://www.magnahifi.com/index.php/de/
  
 I bought my NFB-1AMP there and they said they can repair all Audio-GD units, just have to order the parts.
 That saves shipping costs and time, especially should my 40kg C-10 power amp ever get broken xD
  
 Hope that helps


----------



## hekeli

hirschiaut said:


> All i know is that it has no proper "zero sound" level, there is always a little bit of sound getting through, although perfectly balanced/centered at my unit.


 
  
 Ah ok could be that I just never noticed it. The bleeding is very small, but kinda annoying when you want to mute stuff, of course normally I do it from player. The imbalance is minor if it's even there (maybe I'll try measuring it), but anything under 10-15 is too quiet for normal listening anyway so doesn't matter..


----------



## HirschiAUT

hekeli said:


> Ah ok could be that I just never noticed it. The bleeding is very small, but kinda annoying when you want to mute stuff, of course normally I do it from player. The imbalance is minor if it's even there (maybe I'll try measuring it), but anything under 10-15 is too quiet for normal listening anyway so doesn't matter..


 

 I use it only in my Speaker setup as Pre-Amp, and there is no player i could mute, always some sound 
 Therefore i noticed this right from the start, and asked Kingwa.
 He said it is totally normal for this kind of volume control design, just like the occasional pops from the relais when changing volume.
 I can totally live with that because the sound of the amp is just awesome imo


----------



## hekeli

Ok I'm not imagining things. Somethings definitely broken.
  
 Here's a video of monitoring 1khz sinewave directly from RCA output to my M-Audio Transit soundcard. Sorry about the quality, the Audacity scale you see is -60dBFS -> 0dBFS across the screen. You can see 6-10dB difference from right channel at bottom volumes.. and there's many fishy spots even at normal volumes where volume jumps very erratically.
  
 (video removed, problem solved, audio-gd not to be blaimed)


----------



## HirschiAUT

hekeli said:


> Ok I'm not imagining things. Somethings definitely broken.
> 
> Here's a video of monitoring 1khz sinewave directly from RCA output to my M-Audio Transit soundcard. Sorry about the quality, the Audacity scale you see is -60dBFS -> 0dBFS across the screen. You can see 6-10dB difference from right channel at bottom volumes.. and there's many fishy spots even at normal volumes where volume jumps very erratically.
> 
> https://vid.me/EQAJ


 

 Well, that doesn´t look right at all...
 I would contact kingwa, maybe attatch the video, and see what he says.
  
 If you have to get it repaired and are outside fo the 1 year full warranty (no delivery costs) maybe consider contacting Magna-Hifi to safe a bit.
  
 Hope all will work out for you, and keep us updated on the progress!
  
 Edit sais:
 The jumps you mentioned must be the occasional pops when the relais switch, this seems to be normal tho.
 I noticed that most of the time they appear when you change from 10-11 , 20-21, and so on.
 I guess the relais are seperated into groups of 10, and when switching between those groups you have those pops.
 But they are only really there when there is a signal (like music playing).
 When there is now or only a small signal they are not audible. The louder the signal, the louder the pop.


----------



## hekeli

Well I'm pretty sure I found the problem. Not to name names, but previous owners attemps at soldering the gain board looks absolute mess. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 When I nudge the cable live I hear it fixing the volume issues.. I think it's a quick 15 minute resolder job at a local diy shop..


----------



## HirschiAUT

hekeli said:


> Well I'm pretty sure I found the problem. Not to name names, but previous owners attemps at soldering the gain board looks absolute mess.   When I nudge the cable live I hear it fixing the volume issues.. I think it's a quick 15 minute resolder job at a local diy shop..




Good to hear you found the problem, hope it will be an easy fix!
Can you post a pic of what caused the issues?


----------



## hekeli

hirschiaut said:


> Good to hear you found the problem, hope it will be an easy fix!
> Can you post a pic of what caused the issues?


 
  
 It's just the 7-threaded cable solder connection on the gain boards.. no point continuing with this since it's human error, it wouldn't fault by itself thus nothing to blame Audio-GD for.


----------



## Suopermanni

Hello Headfi,

Just wondering if any member has heard the c2 11th anniversary amp with 2x 6.3mm outs. If i wanted to a/b headphones or have two people listen at same time, is this a option or are there alternatives?


----------



## slex

suopermanni said:


> Hello Headfi,
> 
> Just wondering if any member has heard the c2 11th anniversary amp with 2x 6.3mm outs. If i wanted to a/b headphones or have two people listen at same time, is this a option or are there alternatives?




Yes there is a custom option for it.


----------



## Suopermanni

I assume if you do the custom option that it poowers both HP outs simultaneously when that output is selected.


----------



## eschell27

Please forgive this possibly silly question... I am still somewhat new to higher end audio equipment. I am curious if people have been using the preamp functionality on these middle of the line up AGD headphone amp/preamps very much. I have DAC-19 10th (bought it second hand, original owner had it configured with 2 rca outs instead of 1 rca 1 acss) which i use with an Uptone Regen with the solid adapter instead of short cable as i think it sounds better than the stock short cable, this blocks one of the rca outs. I have 2 amps, C-2 11th and Woo WA2. To solve my problem i run dac-19 to the C-2 then to the WA2 and use the C-2 as preamp when listening to the WA2. Just wondering if any of you have compared the preamp functionality of these amps as to a similarly priced dedicated preamp. I know the C-2 to be a fairly neutral sounding headphone amp so assume i am getting a pretty neutral signal going to the WA2. One of these days i will move my gear around or get some longer interconnects and go directly from the dac-19 to wa2 to compare but until then i was curious about some opinions in regards to how much coloration i may be getting from the c-2 as a preamp for listening with my WA2 in this configuration. It sounds really good, i have no reason to complain about it... yet i just got to wondering about this the other night and thought i would ask around in this thread.


----------



## uelover

eschell27 said:


> Please forgive this possibly silly question... I am still somewhat new to higher end audio equipment. I am curious if people have been using the preamp functionality on these middle of the line up AGD headphone amp/preamps very much. I have DAC-19 10th (bought it second hand, original owner had it configured with 2 rca outs instead of 1 rca 1 acss) which i use with an Uptone Regen with the solid adapter instead of short cable as i think it sounds better than the stock short cable, this blocks one of the rca outs. I have 2 amps, C-2 11th and Woo WA2. To solve my problem i run dac-19 to the C-2 then to the WA2 and use the C-2 as preamp when listening to the WA2. Just wondering if any of you have compared the preamp functionality of these amps as to a similarly priced dedicated preamp. I know the C-2 to be a fairly neutral sounding headphone amp so assume i am getting a pretty neutral signal going to the WA2. One of these days i will move my gear around or get some longer interconnects and go directly from the dac-19 to wa2 to compare but until then i was curious about some opinions in regards to how much coloration i may be getting from the c-2 as a preamp for listening with my WA2 in this configuration. It sounds really good, i have no reason to complain about it... yet i just got to wondering about this the other night and thought i would ask around in this thread.




What is the USB module on your DAC19? If it is the Amanero then you might be better off connecting the usb input directly. I find the Uptone Regen to be detrimental to the sound on my DAC19. 

Then, you can connect both amps directly to the DAC19. 

I am using the NFB1-AMP as a preamp to my Focal speakers and they sounded brilliant though I'm connecting the NFB1-AMP to my DAC19 via ACSS. I do rate the preamp function of AudioGD AMP quite highly.


----------



## eschell27

Thank you for the quick reply... It is Amanero... The only thing that worries me, given my very basic understanding if i were to remove the regen from my chain is that i am running the dac without any oversampling which i enjoy... from the few people i have talked to about it and the things i've read have led me to believe that in order to run it this way over usb i would need a reclocker like the regen or W4S RUR... haven't tried NOS without it though... This is only temporary anyway as i plan on getting a usb to spidf converter along the lines of a Singxer SU-1 or F-1 in the next month or so as soon as i can afford it in order to use the spidf input Who knows i may end up continuing to use the c-2 as a preamp anyway. Before i got the WA2 i had a little dot mk ive se and at first i had it going directly to the dac, then with the c-2 as preamp and preferred it because i liked having the extra volume control depending on which headphones i was using... The WA2 seems to have plenty of power but might find myself in the same boat unless i find that i like the sound directly from the dac-19 as opposed to with c-2 as a preamp.
 I like the idea of turning my dac-19 into NOS-19 but at this point i don't feel comfortable doing the mods myself and don't really want to send it back to china in order to have AGD convert it. Although i have toyed with the idea of returning it back to having 1 rca and 1 acss output since i have the c-2...seems i could benefit from the acss connection for not only the amp but also for it's preamp functionality. I've even seen a few people making their own upgraded acss cables to get another little uptick in SQ from the AGD acss cables.


----------



## slex

You have got tube WA2 and SS C2. Guess if i were you i will connect both rcas from the dac19 individually, depending on your taste of music and it it also save you less power to go through C2 as preamp. The new F1 DDC will outweigh the acss connection in SQ. its best to use BNC connection from DAC if possible for better transmission.

I have s C2 11A too, i use the preamp out to my vintange NAD3020 with no problem.


----------



## eschell27

Yah most likely that will be the plan as soon as I get either the F1 or Su-1 giving me access to all of the RCA outputs from the dac. (Regen blocking one) Won't be long. Not a huge deal just been curious. Thanks for the feedback!


----------



## slex

eschell27 said:


> Yah most likely that will be the plan as soon as I get either the F1 or Su-1 giving me access to all of the RCA outputs from the dac. (Regen blocking one) Won't be long. Not a huge deal just been curious. Thanks for the feedback!




It's wise to invest a good USB cable from regen to dac like the short curious cable.


----------



## lenroot77

Is this THE thread for these amps or are there individuals elsewhere? I'm looking for a nfb-1amp thread but don't see anything else?


----------



## eschell27

The only ones i was able to find as well. Not nearly as much info out there on there two awesome amps as there should be.


----------



## HirschiAUT

lenroot77 said:


> Is this THE thread for these amps or are there individuals elsewhere? I'm looking for a nfb-1amp thread but don't see anything else?




Afaik this is the only thread for the nfb-1amp, what questions do you have?


----------



## lenroot77

No questions just received one and I usually sub to anything i own. I've paired it with my dac 19, sounds great so far. I just need To gets some hungry headphones again. Currently only have the he-400S and they aren't allowing me to take advantage of the amps power.


----------



## Triggaaar

Has anyone compared these (C-2 11th Anniversary Edition or NFB-1AMP) to:
 NFB 11
 NFB 28 / 29
 Jotunheim?
  
 Although said to be decent value at $100, the DAC part of the Jotunheim is generally reported as the weak link. Users here are preferring the Jot with a multibit DAC.
 So I'd have thought the C-2 and NFB-1 is the main alternative to the Jot, and I'd be interested in how they compare.
  
 The NFB 11 is cheaper, and comes with a DAC - something that may not be ideal from a digital noise point of view.
 The NFB 28 / 29 are same design on the outside as the C-2 and NFB-1, but they have integrated DACs.
  
 I'm surprised by the lack of attention for these separate amp/preamps. Is it simply that the DACs integrated into the NFB 28/29 are so good that they make these separates unnecessary for most?


----------



## eschell27

Owning the C-2 11th (really love this little amp) i too would be curious to see what an experienced user thought about it in comparison to the Jot, specifically with the HD650 as both seem to be great amps for those headphones. 
  
 Perhaps pose the question in a Jot thread? If you come across any info please do report back here!


----------



## Triggaaar

eschell27 said:


> Owning the C-2 11th (really love this little amp) i too would be curious to see what an experienced user thought about it in comparison to the Jot, specifically with the HD650 as both seem to be great amps for those headphones.
> 
> Perhaps pose the question in a Jot thread? If you come across any info please do report back here!


 
 I thought we'd be more likely to find an Audio-GD user with Jot experience here, than vice versa on the Jot thread, but you're welcome to pose the question there   I don't want to be pestering people


----------



## Duan

I am too very interested in the same question, for me especially with the modi multibit+C-2 11th+HD650 VS modi multibit+Jot+HD650.


----------



## zeissiez

I compared an old Compass 2 with my Jot. They were quite similar in the amp section. The treble of the Jot was not as extended, and the soundstage was slightly less wide than the Compass 2. The Compass 2 was tested with the SE out and Jot balanced out with Vega as DAC.


----------



## slex

I got both C211th and Jot. Short and sharp- use jot for balance or C211th for single ended.
Both have good points . Jot is clearer but not as musical then C211th. It depend on the type of hp you are using. 

1) Jot good point= clear imaging , balance output=great power=great for high impedance hp with warm signature.

2) C211th good points= better digital volume , remote control, 4 inputs and 2 outputs. ACSS if you connect to another Agd component.

Anything i miss? Right now C2th is my preamp to Jot.


----------



## slex

slex said:


> I got both C211th and Jot. Short and sharp- use jot for balance or C211th for single ended.
> Both have good points . Jot is clearer but not as musical then C211th. It depend on the type of hp you are using.
> 
> 1) Jot good point= clear imaging , balance output=great power=great for high impedance hp with warm signature.
> ...




Oh yeah all is connected to mimby including my vintage nad3020.


----------



## Duan

slex said:


> I got both C211th and Jot. Short and sharp- use jot for balance or C211th for single ended.
> Both have good points . Jot is clearer but not as musical then C211th. It depend on the type of hp you are using.
> 
> 1) Jot good point= clear imaging , balance output=great power=great for high impedance hp with warm signature.
> ...



Thanks for the comparison,
I would have loved a comparison between the NFB 1 amp and the Jot using balanced output, because I am not entirely sure the NFB 1amp is worth the extra money in terms of purely judging on sound quality


----------



## slex

duan said:


> Thanks for the comparison,
> I would have loved a comparison between the NFB 1 amp and the Jot using balanced output, because I am not entirely sure the NFB 1amp is worth the extra money in terms of purely judging on sound quality



i would think the power transformer in jot definitely better hence the distinctively clear imaging but not a fully Class A amp.Soundstage is larger on C211th like brother of NFB 1amp.


----------



## Andrew Rieger

I'm curious as well how the C-2 11th compares to the Jotenheim.


----------



## Triggaaar

andrew rieger said:


> I'm curious as well how the C-2 11th compares to the Jotenheim.


 
  
 This what you're looking for?
  
 Quote:


slex said:


> I got both C211th and Jot. Short and sharp- use jot for balance or C211th for single ended.
> Both have good points . Jot is clearer but not as musical then C211th. It depend on the type of hp you are using.
> 
> 1) Jot good point= clear imaging , balance output=great power=great for high impedance hp with warm signature.
> ...


----------



## Astral Abyss

I personally can't see the Jotenheim being a better amp than the C-2.  Sorry, I just can't.  And before you dismiss me out of hand, I own a C-2, Ragnarok, Vali, and previously a Lyr 2.  Schiit amps are powerful and detailed, but not very musical.  The C-2, especially if connected via ACSS to an Audio-gd DAC is something to behold.  Powerful, detailed, yet musical and smooth.


----------



## Duan

astral abyss said:


> I personally can't see the Jotenheim being a better amp than the C-2.  Sorry, I just can't.  And before you dismiss me out of hand, I own a C-2, Ragnarok, Vali, and previously a Lyr 2.  Schiit amps are powerful and detailed, but not very musical.  The C-2, especially if connected via ACSS to an Audio-gd DAC is something to behold.  Powerful, detailed, yet musical and smooth.



Can I ask what Audio Gd DAC you are using? The DAC 19?


----------



## slex

I was aiming at acss nos dac to match my C211th until mimby came along and could not resist the pricing,no regret at this point.I figure when audiogd migrate to the next latest xmos model, will decide againNow hands full with with another NOS TDA1545A dac.


----------



## Andrew Rieger

slex said:


> I was aiming at acss nos dac to match my C211th until mimby came along and could not resist the pricing,no regret at this point.I figure when audiogd migrate to the next latest xmos model, will decide againNow hands full with with another NOS TDA1545A dac.


 

 So you are currently using the A-GD C-2 11th amp with the Schiit Modi Multibit? Would you say that the two are a good combo? I currently have a mimby but I'm looking to upgrade my amp.


----------



## Duan

slex said:


> I was aiming at acss nos dac to match my C211th until mimby came along and could not resist the pricing,no regret at this point.I figure when audiogd migrate to the next latest xmos model, will decide againNow hands full with with another NOS TDA1545A dac.



So even the mimby pairs really well with the C2 11th?
My ultimate plan is to maybe pair the DAC 19 with the C2 but the DAC 19 is a little bit expensive for now so I'm thinking of getting the c2 and the mimby and then later on the DAC 19. 
What I am looking for that really smooth but detailed sound so I can get lost inside the music so the mimby with the C2 will still provide this?


----------



## Andrew Rieger

Also, what does Kingwa mean when he says "*The **PCM1704UK stock in an emergency**,*
*DAC 19 last for sale." *
  
 That quote was taken from the news section of his homepage. Does this mean that they have one DAC 19 left? Or does it mean it is the last run of the DAC 19? If its the last run, how many total do they think they can produce? I'm not sure how seriously I should take this. I read that Audio GD have been saying for a few years that PCM1704 stock was low and that they were going to stop using it, but there are multiple Audio GD products still using the chip years after they said they were running out. Not being critical, just confused is all. Is this a purchase I need to make literally ASAP or do I have a few months of breathing room or even a year?


----------



## Duan

andrew rieger said:


> Also, what does Kingwa mean when he says "*[COLOR=FF6600]The [/COLOR]*[COLOR=FF6600]*PCM1704UK stock in an emergency**,*
> *DAC 19 last for sale." *[/COLOR]
> 
> That quote was taken from the news section of his homepage. Does this mean that they have one DAC 19 left? Or does it mean it is the last run of the DAC 19? If its the last run, how many total do they think they can produce? I'm not sure how seriously I should take this. I read that Audio GD have been saying for a few years that PCM1704 stock was low and that they were going to stop using it, but there are multiple Audio GD products still using the chip years after they said they were running out. Not being critical, just confused is all. Is this a purchase I need to make literally ASAP or do I have a few months of breathing room or even a year?



Maybe email and ask?
That would really be heartbreaking if they stop with that line of production


----------



## Andrew Rieger

duan said:


> Maybe email and ask?
> That would really be heartbreaking if they stop with that line of production


 

 I did. No reply yet but its been less than a day so not a big deal.


----------



## Duan

andrew rieger said:


> I did. No reply yet but its been less than a day so not a big deal.



Let us know what he answers.


----------



## slex

andrew rieger said:


> So you are currently using the A-GD C-2 11th amp with the Schiit Modi Multibit? Would you say that the two are a good combo? I currently have a mimby but I'm looking to upgrade my amp.




Go ahead the mimby have some burittos, figure around 70-80 % of its big ass brother yiggy


----------



## slex

duan said:


> So even the mimby pairs really well with the C2 11th?
> My ultimate plan is to maybe pair the DAC 19 with the C2 but the DAC 19 is a little bit expensive for now so I'm thinking of getting the c2 and the mimby and then later on the DAC 19.
> What I am looking for that really smooth but detailed sound so I can get lost inside the music so the mimby with the C2 will still provide this?




Yes, pay peanuts for a nos as a stepping stone, go from there, Theres still 1704 nos chip on other Dac builder and sellers.


----------



## Duan

For interest sake how is the balanced output on the C2 11th? 
I know its a single ended amp but is just wondering if its even worth it to terminate a SE headphone cable into a balanced cable.


----------



## slex

I did a short switch from jotun balance xlr to c2 's xlr out just to check whether its working only. I got a rubber stopper or rather protector to cover the up the c2 xlr permanently.


----------



## Astral Abyss

duan said:


> Can I ask what Audio Gd DAC you are using? The DAC 19?




Yes, it's the DAC-19. I haven't upgraded the firmware on it yet though. Don't know if I will.


----------



## Andrew Rieger

slex said:


> Go ahead the mimby have some burittos, figure around 70-80 % of its big ass brother yiggy


 

 Thats encouraging. I would even say the Mimby is 85% to maybe 90% the Yggy given the quality of the chain. Its that good.


----------



## slex

Yiggy is burritos with spicesMore refine. I got the oppotunity to audition it. Hate the monstor size though


----------



## Duan

Has anyone compared the NFB 1amp vs the C2 11th? Is the NFB 1amp balanced output significantly better than the C2 11th SE output?


----------



## djchup

I'm about to order an NFB-1AMP.  I just emailed them asking if I could get a third pair of RCA outs instead of the ACSS output.  I don't really think I'll need a 3x RCA preamp outs, but I honestly can't think of any use for the ACSS output unless you were using the NFB-1AMP as a preamp for a separate Audio GD amp (which I'm pretty sure I'd never do). I'm mainly asking to have them switched to RCA because their placement would allow the use of paired RCA cables without splitting them.
  
 Just wanted to ask here if there's any reason you guys think I'd want to have the ACSS outputs on the NFB-1AMP.


----------



## djchup

One more thing, reviews of the NFB-1AMP were hard to find, but I found one in this french magazine (LINK).  I don't speak french, so I got the text via OCR and ran it through google translate.  I'll leave the translated review in a spoiler below.
  
 (I don't want to break any rules about linking to outside sites or infringe on any copyrights so I will remove this post if asked.)
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



*NFB-1AMP*
  
*The Chinese manufacturer Audio-gd is known little by little in France by its converters of a ratio technology / price a priori ultra competitive. Here it is on the harness with a headphone amp NFB-1AMP which can also play the role of true Hi-Fi preamplifier. We find there the same great recipes of the other devices of this brand with a power announced very consequent: from the unpublished to this price ?*
  
 It was at the dawn of the 2000s that the Audio-gd brand began its activities under the leadership of He Qinghua, a training engineer, with the aim of producing audio devices of a very high degree of technological sophistication . Mr. He Qinghua has developed his own technology, called ACSS, an acronym of the Audio-GD Current Signal System, which provides audio transmission that is not in tension but running. Moreover, this designer is a fierce adept of truly symmetrical circuits with a rigorous pairing of the components used in the manufacture of all the models in the range, the latter being entirely mounted by hand in his workshops. All devices are also tested and listened to more than 100 hours before shipment, for these reasons the warranty is extended to 10 years.
  
  
*A plethora of input and output*
  
  4 models form the range of Audio-gd preamps of which 3 act as a headphone amp. The NFB-1AMP is priced at entry level, but do not be misled, its performance is extremely high.  He takes over the technical lines of his big brother the Master 9. The dimensions of his box and all his possibilities class him irremediably in the camp headphone amps totally sedentary. From the size of a small traditional Hi-Fi integrated amplifier with its 240 x 360 x 80 mm, it is by removing the hood that we will understand, a little further, why. The cabinet, all metal with a thick black anodized brushed aluminum front slice with silver color controls. It has two headphone outputs on the front: an asymmetrical 6.35 mm jack and a symmetrical 4-way XLR. The front panel also houses a large blue-tinted display under which emerge three keys, each with a specific purpose: "Out" for the choice between preamp and headphone amp (P / H), "Gain" High or Low (H / L) which determines the travel of the volume potentiometer (0 to 63 or 0 to 99 steps), a very useful option depending on the sensitivity of the headphones and finally the "Input" key to choose between the 5 Made available to us. The rear face of the NFB-AMP1 reflects by its typical implantation the principle of operation of the device. It is divided into two totally symmetrical parts; The left and right inputs and outputs are mirrored with respect to the mains socket. We therefore have 5 inputs including two RCAs, two balanced XLRs and a mini-XLR for audio signals, which can be operated by a Dac of the brand or another compatible device. The outputs have the same types of sockets with RCA, XLR and mini-XLR ACSS, a connection found on the power blocks of the brand like Master 3 or 10. It is clear that Mr. He Qinghua is more technician than designer, the appearance of the device is quite "old-fashioned" compared to others. We feel we have fallen back 40 years. But under this dress a little rustre hides a much more advanced technology. 
  
*Power circuits worthy of a real small integrated amp*
  
 The interior of the NFB-AMP1 reveals the full range of technologies deployed by the designer and leaves nothing to be desired. First, at the front of the main circuit, there is an oversized power supply with a high capacity R-Core transformer (± 15 VDC). The voltages of the gain circuits are regulated and then filtered by two electro-chemical capacitors of 3300 pF / 63 V Audio Grade from Nover and 4 other capacitors of 1500 pF from the same manufacturer. To the right of the transformer, a small circuit, all in discrete components, controls the controls and the display of the device. For amplification, Audio-gd boasts a so-called "Diamond Difference" editing all in discrete components without any amp-op or capability on the signal path. The balanced input stages are built around a J-FET transistor array, while the output stage has no less than eight 15-watt bipolar power transistors, all polarized in Class A (2 x 4 push-pull for the symmetrical configuration). They are mounted on independent heat sinks, so the announced power of 9000 mW at 25 ohms and 600 mW at 600 does not seem to be usurped. The other highlight of this Audio-gd NFB-AMP1 is the very high-end configuration of the volume control. Each step of the Potentiometer control of the switching relays, each of which activates a Dale resistor. This type of volume control makes it possible once again to preserve the quality of the signals, because at each switching therefore at each desired level, a single component intervenes in the path of the signal. The only drawback comes from small switching noises, and with the headset this is clearly understood. 
  
*Listening: mastery, breadth and realism*
  
 The NFB-AMP1 is capable of developing enough power for all the most difficult headsets on the market, listening Does not show otherwise. This headphone preamplifier / amplifier immediately delivers a feeling of contained power while being able to release cascaded watts from the slightest solicitation. We feel that it never forces itself, but knows how to manage all sound levels with an almost insolent casualness. With our headphones Audeze LDC-X, we have the clear impression that this amp is strolling, and we can enjoy the full spectrum range that this orthodynamic headphone offers. In a way, the Audio-gd NFB-AMP1 is close to the impression left by the Arcam rHEAD (also tested in this guide) with this propensity to retain its sound signature even at high levels. Nevertheless, and while listening, it appears that while remaining overall less lively than its competitor, the NFB-AMP1 has no equal to expand the sound scene by pushing back far beyond its limits. The medium region seems perfectly balanced and full of resources and the acute that joins it is warm, but nevertheless has a silky and delicate side. The bass on its side is wide with some roundness, this amp being on this plane less alert and lively compared to the model Arcam or the RudiStor. 
  
 On the song "River" of the lbeyi sisters' record, the sound scene opens in an extraordinary way. It's as if the recording room had simply grown with reverberations that vanish into a larger space. On the other hand, it appears that this apparatus never depreciates a certain softness without forgetting to return to us the minute details of a sound recording, but without putting forward artificially, a A sound signature that gives precisely this impression of sonorous realism. The drum of the introduction resonates with majesty, and imposes itself sublimely with an extinction of blows on the skin quite surprising. Bass is delivered while remaining clean. The voices of the sisters lbeyi arrive warm, sensual and singing and mark the sound of their magnificent presence whether in amp mode for headphones or preamp on our system. We have here a listening in relief with an almost holographic restitution of each interpreter and instrument, a quality that we will find on all CDs and files listened to. In this regard, the NFB-AMP1 is a total success. We wanted, at this time of the test, to judge the tonal credibility of this headphone amp. Nothing was better than Bach's Partitas No. 3 played by Hilary Hahn on the violin (16 bits / 44 kHz). At this time, the NFB-AMP1 admits qualities of delicate and nuanced timbres. Compared to other devices of this test, this amp sounds particularly right with a gradient of subjugating harmonics. We feel the bow slide over the strings of the instrument and the various note attacks are amazing realism. Beyond all this, the emotion of this interpretation is no longer the shadow of a doubt. Same observation with the Holland Baroque Society orchestra and Alexis Kossenko playing the Teleman (SACD). The play of the soloist is very precise, those of the whole orchestra in the background will be just as much. The impression of homogeneity denotes a balanced bandwidth and does not project any part of the spectrum forward. It is at the same time a sign of a certain rigor in the structure of the timbres, all the variety of sounds of this disc passing with a remarkable fluidity. It is singing and rich in emotion, two qualities that make it an unusual device in this price category.


----------



## slex

duan said:


> Has anyone compared the NFB 1amp vs the C2 11th? Is the NFB 1amp balanced output significantly better than the C2 11th SE output?



Both output are same power it depend whether to suit your choice of single ended or balance headphone but...,,,
I believe a true balance amp should have 2 power transformer and a single ended should have dual mono outputs


----------



## Duan

djchup said:


> I'm about to order an NFB-1AMP.  I just emailed them asking if I could get a third pair of RCA outs instead of the ACSS output.  I don't really think I'll need a 3x RCA preamp outs, but I honestly can't think of any use for the ACSS output unless you were using the NFB-1AMP as a preamp for a separate Audio GD amp (which I'm pretty sure I'd never do). I'm mainly asking to have them switched to RCA because their placement would allow the use of paired RCA cables without splitting them.
> 
> Just wanted to ask here if there's any reason you guys think I'd want to have the ACSS outputs on the NFB-1AMP.



Can you do some listening impressions because the reviews are so limited?
Do you have other amplifiers to compare it against?
What dac and what headphones will you be using?


----------



## djchup

duan said:


> Can you do some listening impressions because the reviews are so limited?
> Do you have other amplifiers to compare it against?
> What dac and what headphones will you be using?


 
 My opinion won't have much weight here as my listening experience is pretty limited.  I haven't listened to many amps to compare it to, to be honest.  I'm upgrading from an NFB-12 2011 model that I've been using for the last few years (my first dac/amp).  I'll be using the NFB-12 as a DAC into the NFB-1amp until I order a modi multibit (in a month or so).


----------



## Andrew Rieger

Does the NFB-1 still have that clicking noise when adjusting volume?


----------



## Astral Abyss

Yes, that's the relay switches for the attenuator.  It's an excellent setup.


----------



## Andrew Rieger

I'm buying an MDHT R2R DAC with is single ended. So here's the question ... if you had the ability to run both balanced and SE cables on a headphone, would you get better sound from the single ended DAC to the NFB-1 to balanced headphones vs SE DAC to C-2 11th to SE headphones?
  
 Basically Single Ended DAC -> NFB-1 -> Balanced Headphone ...  VS ... Single Ended DAC -> C-2 11th -> Single Ended headphone


----------



## slex

andrew rieger said:


> I'm buying an MDHT R2R DAC with is single ended. So here's the question ... if you had the ability to run both balanced and SE cables on a headphone, would you get better sound from the single ended DAC to the NFB-1 to balanced headphones vs SE DAC to C-2 11th to SE headphones?
> 
> Basically Single Ended DAC -> NFB-1 -> Balanced Headphone ...  VS ... Single Ended DAC -> C-2 11th -> Single Ended headphone



Intended hp ?


----------



## fon55

Welcome Kingwa. C2 will be a better headphone amplifier from my Precision2, I expect very good dynamic, fast accurate sound, I would C2 also use as a preamplifier to P2, the handset is Audioqest NightHowk, Audeze LCD2, Focal ELEAR. I use google translator does not speak English


----------



## Andrew Rieger

slex said:


> Intended hp ?


 

 ZMF Atticus and Beyer DT1990 Pro


----------



## slex

andrew rieger said:


> Go single ended. If you want a balance, better save up for a double transformer true balance.
> 
> ZMF Atticus and Beyer DT1990 Pro


----------



## slex

You can later add balance amp to C2 which act as a preamp. Best of both world. I added Jotunheim to my C2 specfically for ZMF hps( vibro mk2 PH)


----------



## Astral Abyss

andrew rieger said:


> I'm buying an MDHT R2R DAC with is single ended. So here's the question ... if you had the ability to run both balanced and SE cables on a headphone, would you get better sound from the single ended DAC to the NFB-1 to balanced headphones vs SE DAC to C-2 11th to SE headphones?
> 
> Basically Single Ended DAC -> NFB-1 -> Balanced Headphone ...  VS ... Single Ended DAC -> C-2 11th -> Single Ended headphone




I had a similar choice to make and went with the C-2. You can use SE or XLR cables on the C-2. No, your XLR will not be balanced, but in my opinion you are losing nothing. You are gaining the ability to connect either type of cable and still get full power from the amp, whereas with NFB-1 you only get a fraction of the power on the SE connection. The fact that the C-2 has as much power running unbalanced as the NFB-1 does balanced tells me personally that the C-2 is the better amp. 

I'm one of those people that thinks a well designed SE amp is the way to go for headphones. I'm putting my money where my mouth is as I have a Wells Audio Milo being built right now. It'll be run off my DAC-19 along with the C-2. 

People will debate that all day long but all I care about is the sound quality and I find no innate value in balanced when running headphones.

BTW, the C-2 is no slouch running my HE-6s either.


----------



## djchup

Well I got my invoice for an NFB-1AMP from Kingwa, I'm ordering as soon as I get my paycheck.  I'm having him substitue an extra RCA output in place of the ACSS output because I couldn't think of any reason I would want ACSS out on my amp.
  
 Edit: Ordered.


----------



## djchup

annnnd they lowered the price 3 hours after I paid lol


----------



## slex

djchup said:


> annnnd they lowered the price 3 hours after I paid lol



By how much? Anyway you be glad hopefully. Good volume control and lots of i/os.


----------



## Triggaaar

djchup said:


> annnnd they lowered the price 3 hours after I paid lol


 

 That is annoying.


----------



## djchup

From $520 -> $485, looks like they lowered the prices on most of their products.  NFB-28 went from $750 -> $700.


----------



## Triggaaar

djchup said:


> From $520 -> $485, looks like they lowered the prices on most of their products.  NFB-28 went from $750 -> $700.


 

 You didn't get a new year discount or anything did you?


----------



## djchup

triggaaar said:


> You didn't get a new year discount or anything did you?


 
 I'm actually looking at the detailed invoice now, and it appears that I was mistaken.  Kingwa DID give me the new lower price AND the new year's discount.  (My paypal invoice just had the total price not a bill breakdown and I'm only now looking at the detailed invoice).  I was charged $461 for the NFB-1AMP (485 - 5%), $52 shipping, 3.7% paypal fee, 0.3% handling fee.  I saw the total of $533 and assumed it was the original price of $520 - 5% discount + shipping.


----------



## acap13

Hello, I wonder how C2-11 will drive HD800S? Given this 800 version of tamed and bit boost on the low ends, will the C2-11 do the job well? Will pair it with Chord Mojo.


----------



## djchup

Received my NFB-1Amp yesterday, really dwarfs my old NFB-12!  Still waiting on the balanced cable for my HD 650 so only enjoying half of it's power, and using the NFB-12 as a dac temporarily.  That being said, initial impressions are favorable


----------



## acap13

djchup said:


> Received my NFB-1Amp yesterday, really dwarfs my old NFB-12!  Still waiting on the balanced cable for my HD 650 so only enjoying half of it's power, and using the NFB-12 as a dac temporarily.  That being said, initial impressions are favorable




Great! I'm eager to know how does it compare to your other amps at least NFB-1 on single ended if not balaned.


----------



## djchup

acap13 said:


> Great! I'm eager to know how does it compare to your other amps at least NFB-1 on single ended if not balaned.


 
 My Modi Multibit shipped today, so that'll be replacing the NFB-12, and I ordered a balanced HD650 cable from mimic-cables a little over 2 weeks ago so that should be shipping soon as well.  As soon as I get everything and have time for some serious listening I'll make a post with more detailed impressions.


----------



## acap13

djchup said:


> My Modi Multibit shipped today, so that'll be replacing the NFB-12, and I ordered a balanced HD650 cable from mimic-cables a little over 2 weeks ago so that should be shipping soon as well.  As soon as I get everything and have time for some serious listening I'll make a post with more detailed impressions.




That'd be great. Will have to wait for your impressions soon with patience.


----------



## gto88

Got a problem with NFB-1AMP, I am getting lost left channel during listening and
 sometimes the volume lost its level, when I turn the volume knob up or down, it returns
 to expected volume.
 Has any one experienced this?


----------



## djchup

I keep forgetting to ask: is NFB-1AMP supposed to include a remote (plastic one)?  Received mine last week with no remote.  Not really a big deal, just curious.  I'm not even sure if I care enough to bother kingwa about it.


----------



## gto88

djchup said:


> I keep forgetting to ask: is NFB-1AMP supposed to include a remote (plastic one)?  Received mine last week with no remote.  Not really a big deal, just curious.  I'm not even sure if I care enough to bother kingwa about it.


 
 Yes, it includes one. But, I have never used it.


----------



## eschell27

For some reason mine came with two. HaHa... i do find that i use mine when im sitting my chair out of reach from the amp and just to cause less wear and tear on the small pot.
 If you decide you want one and have troubles getting AGD to send you one, i can dig my extra one up and send it to you if you pay the shipping


----------



## acap13

Hello!
Have anyone here has compares NFB-1 Amp with other amps of highee price? Something like Liquid Carbon or EC Black Widow? How would NFB 1 keep up with the offerings being the more cheaper?


----------



## djchup

eschell27 said:


> For some reason mine came with two. HaHa... i do find that i use mine when im sitting my chair out of reach from the amp and just to cause less wear and tear on the small pot.
> If you decide you want one and have troubles getting AGD to send you one, i can dig my extra one up and send it to you if you pay the shipping


 
 Heh, much appreciated.  I emailed kingwa so I'll let you know if he gives me a hard time.


----------



## djchup

eschell27 said:


> For some reason mine came with two. HaHa... i do find that i use mine when im sitting my chair out of reach from the amp and just to cause less wear and tear on the small pot.
> If you decide you want one and have troubles getting AGD to send you one, i can dig my extra one up and send it to you if you pay the shipping


 
 If you can find your second remote and are willing to send it my way, let me know.  I'd be happy to pay the shipping.
  
 the response I got from Kingwa:
  


> Since 6 months ago the mini remote had out of stock so we had not include the remote.
> Kingwa


----------



## eschell27

Hmmm i hadn't noticed them mentioning that on the site, other than i guess overlooking the fact that maybe the product pages don't mentioning including one? HaHa. Oh well... Let me see if i can dig it out tonight and then i'll PM you.


----------



## eschell27

Recently i have modded my hd650 as well got a new cable (Norne Draug 2c 4pin XLR with adapter for 1/4 as well). They certainly sound better than they ever have....but my question is for C-2 11th owners who have tried both the 1/4 and xlr outputs on the c-2 and if you noticed a difference in the sound even if slight? Just out of boredom and curiosity i am trying to figure out what to attribute this new wonderful SQ to.
 Also recently got the hdmi i2s input module installed/working on my dac-19 from singxer su-1 with an DH Labs Silver Sonic 2.0 cable. All in all working with the best synergy in this system yet and very happy!
  
 **Edit**
  
 Answered my own question about the two outputs on top of going back a little in the thread finding a few mentions so my apologies for not doing my homework first.
  
 But having the day off work i've been just playing around a little bored and ended up trying out my WA2 as a preamp for my C-2 11th to positive results so far. One of my complaints i have about the WA2 as a headphone amp is that at times the bass can seem a little bloated and less clear (at least with my current tube combo mentioned in my sig) than the C-2 / hd650. But as a preamp to the c-2 it adds a little of that tube sweetness in the midrange that i love from the WA2 while letting the C-2 tighten up the bass. Only been listening for a little bit but it's been fun!


----------



## Solude

eschell27 said:


> They certainly sound better than they ever have....but my question is for C-2 11th owners who have tried both the 1/4 and xlr outputs on the c-2 and if you noticed a difference in the sound even if slight?


 
  
 One cable goes to the 4pin and then continues to the 1/4".  Any change in sound would be placebo.


----------



## Bruch

Anyone thought about rolling those opamps in the NFB/1 Amp? I don't even know what would be compatible / alternative or what would be the impact but I have had good results with the Burson V5 in other amps.


----------



## lentoviolento

my c2 is on the way...tomorrow if god wants it will be on my desk. i didn't want to go nuts buying aftermarket cables to go balanced when i can get the same amount of power in SE, so i skipped the amp1.
 can't wait to see if my lcd2 will scale a bit. i have a mimby . fingers crossed


----------



## djchup

You're 


lentoviolento said:


> my c2 is on the way...tomorrow if god wants it will be on my desk. i didn't want to go nuts buying aftermarket cables to go balanced when i can get the same amount of power in SE, so i skipped the amp1.
> can't wait to see if my lcd2 will scale a bit. i have a mimby . fingers crossed


 
 You're going to love it...I'm using the 1amp with mimby and hd650.  Let me know how you like the LCD2 with c2, planar cans will probably be my next purchase.


----------



## lentoviolento

Shipping is delayed goddammit


----------



## FredA

I got myself an NFB1-AMP along with a pair Chinese-made AkG k701 i modded to balanced (4-wire cable in its last version). This a mini-review.

The reason to choose the NFB1-amp over the c-2 was i wanted to use the balance out of my Master-7 DAC, the ACSS being used for the speakers setup.

So far, so very good. After about 50 hours put on the amp and around 150 on the cans, i am delighted to hear inflexions never heard before through speakers out of my firmware-upgraded Master-7.

This amp is a real audiophile piece, and as such, it will not be at its best with poor recordings, like many pop music records out there i won't name (but it is nonetheless forgiving). Therefore, for jazz or classical, it's wonderful. The AKG k701 are reputed as light on bass, but is not in my setup. I love the bass depth and definition the setup brings. The NFB1-AMP is up to the task of properly driving the K701. This set of cans is a tricky one, it needs some juice to extract the most out of it. And the NFB-1AMP is more than adequate. In fact, the point in my buying such a powerful amp is i intend to acquire better cans within the next months and i knew power would not be a problem. It is not cheap for just occasional listening sessions on cans - i am more of a speaker guy - but headphones are growing on me.

The sound of the amp is typical of audio-gd: good dynamics without harshness, very natural, relaxing, musical, resolving, clean and easy to listen to for hours. I have bought 7 audio-gd gears all in all and i don't regret buying a single one. With the NFB-1amp, i see the fit and finish improved compared to my previous acquisitions which is a pleasant surprise. I really like the style and philosophy behing those gears. I think the built and overall quality is second to none in the price range. It is always amazing to pop the cover up and look inside (even more so with a master series piece of equipment).

Be sure to feed this amp with a quality source because, of course, with a faithful amp, it's garbage-in garbage-out, there is no miracle.

The soundstaging is a very strong point with the NFB-1AMP. And i just love of good the volume knobs operates. Feels smooth, quick and accurate. Sonically, it is a first-rate volume control as well: it is very transparent and you will never get any channel imbalance whatever the listening level.

This amp is not cheap but worth every penny and much more. I have a master-1 as pre and i am curious to set the Nfb-1amp against it. I am sure it does a very fine job, just curious to see how close they are for such a price difference.

I had an eye on this amp for months, recognizing it as a great design and a great value. For me, it is a bit of a collector's item. I knew i would buy one at some point. 

The only weakness is perhaps the chassis not being as thick and sturdy as a master series one. But i am being picky. It's a very nice chassis. 

Highly recommended amp.


----------



## HirschiAUT

I would be really interested in a comparison between the nfb-1 and the master series.

I use the nfb-1 for headphones and as a preamp for my speaker Setup going balanced to a Audio-GD C-10 Power AMP and was always wondering if an upgrade to master is worth it.

And i am also really happy with audio GD gear, i have the nfb-1.32 as DAC, and the C-10 drives my von schweikerts wonderfully, just superb gear


----------



## lentoviolento

I'm. Burning in my c2, arrived yesterday.. 
I love that i can get a warmer sound by popping the hood and use the clips on the transistor. 
I'm using lcd2. 
One thing about the bass.... I feel like there's not enough punch compairing it with schiit jothuneim... 
Is it possible?


----------



## wadi

bruch said:


> Anyone thought about rolling those opamps in the NFB/1 Amp? I don't even know what would be compatible / alternative or what would be the impact but I have had good results with the Burson V5 in other amps.


 
  
 If i remember correctly Audio GD doesn't use any opamps in NFB-1 circutry.


----------



## FredA

These opamps are for the servo-control elimiting the dc level at the ouput. They can make a difference with bass response but they can't be replaced with any opamp.

But to anyone lacking bass, i would recommend using a 14 gauge power cord. A quality one if possible but any 14 gauge will help. I never use the standard cord, whatever gear i acquire.


----------



## FredA

hirschiaut said:


> I would be really interested in a comparison between the nfb-1 and the master series.
> 
> I use the nfb-1 for headphones and as a preamp for my speaker Setup going balanced to a Audio-GD C-10 Power AMP and was always wondering if an upgrade to master is worth it.
> 
> And i am also really happy with audio GD gear, i have the nfb-1.32 as DAC, and the C-10 drives my von schweikerts wonderfully, just superb gear




I will at some point. Expect better micro-dynamics, a bit more separation, resolution an neutrality. Kingwa explained to me that the master series uses a double buffer stage, besides one transfo per channel. In any case, the NFB-1Amp is a serious pre-amp, and competitive under 2k and a bit more maybe. I rely on the architecture and the way it drives headphones to make that call. Give me 2-3 weeks and i will give it a try.


----------



## wadi

freda said:


> These opamps are for the servo-control elimiting the dc level at the ouput. They can make a difference with bass response but they can't be replaced with any opamp.
> 
> But to anyone lacking bass, i would recommend using a 14 gauge power cord. A quality one if possible but any 14 gauge will help. I never use the standard cord, whatever gear i acquire.


 
  
 Interesting. I'm curious about what @Kingwa will say about use of opamps in NFB-1 amp.
  
 As far as i know they stopped using Opams in their designs some time ago.


----------



## FredA

wadi said:


> Interesting. I'm curious about what @Kingwa
> will say about use of opamps in NFB-1 amp.
> 
> As far as i know they stopped using Opams in their designs some time ago.




Wel i suppose that this is not technically considered as part of the signal path, since it has minimal impact on sound. Opamps are used in most, if not all output stage by audio-gd for servo-control.


----------



## michkhol

Question for those who ever ordered from Audio-GD. How long does it usually take to get a quote? I sent a request for a NFB-1AMP three days ago and nothing since, except an automated response.


----------



## FredA

michkhol said:


> Question for those who ever ordered from Audio-GD. How long does it usually take to get a quote? I sent a request for a NFB-1AMP three days ago and nothing since, except an automated response.


 
 They are probably rushing as this time, still catching up after the Moon Festival holiday.
  
 Took about a week or so for them to send me one a month ago.


----------



## michkhol

Got a response from them, ordered the amp, all is fine, thanks!


----------



## enigmus12

freda said:


> This amp is not cheap but worth every penny and much more. I have a master-1 as pre and i am curious to set the Nfb-1amp against it. I am sure it does a very fine job, just curious to see how close they are for such a price difference.
> 
> Highly recommended amp.


 
  
 Very nice review !
  
 I have amost the same setup (Master 7 acss to Master 1 to power amp/speaker and in my case Master 7 RCA to Audio Gd Sa31 to headphone) and i'm interested in your comparison between pre-amp comparison between the master 1 and Nfb-1 amp.
  
 Perhaps I must go to the same route as you (Master 7 XLR to Nfb1 because RCA out of Master 7 is perhaps not on par with the balanced one. The problem is that I'll need to reterminate some of my headphones especially the Akg k340 that is already hard enough to drive even for the SA31 (when i'm in and listening very loud i can set the Sa31 to max level on high gain, it's loud but clean enough...).
  
 I agree that every Audio-gd equipment worst the price asked and bring a flavor that makes you want to collect some other ones


----------



## FredA

michkhol said:


> Got a response from them, ordered the amp, all is fine, thanks!




It is very nice, Quite sure you will like it. Get a 14 gauge cord or some audiophile cord if you can. Most of the gears from audio-gd benefit from a better/bigger cord, especially with bass and dynamics. Note that the sound quality will vary during the burn in period (100-200 hours).

I like mine so much i bought a second pair of cans (meze classic 99) to get the most out my newly put up headphone setup. So relaxing to enjoy a listening session with hf, well seated in the living room.


----------



## FredA

enigmus12 said:


> Very nice review !
> 
> I have amost the same setup (Master 7 acss to Master 1 to power amp/speaker and in my case Master 7 RCA to Audio Gd Sa31 to headphone) and i'm interested in your comparison between pre-amp comparison between the master 1 and Nfb-1 amp.
> 
> ...




Yes the reterminating job is a bit of a pain and is sometimes not possible. Some cans need complete dismanteling and re-wiring. I am not sure it worth it, the RCA out on the m7 is very very good. One point in favor of the nfb1 for me is i had 2 spare high-quality balanced cable in my possession and no high-quality RCAs. Your SA31 must be very good, not sure how much an upgrade you would get, Kingwa could tell you.


----------



## enigmus12

Yes you're right. The fact is that I now have some singled ended headphones and a balanced one (headphones are growing on me too . The balanced one will benefit from a whole balanced setup for sure but I'll lose half the power for the singled ended ones (and that will be just impossible to still enjoy the Akg k340...).
  
 About the Master 1 pre vs Nfb1, it have my interest because I actually only use the Master 1 via RCA out to a non balanced power amp. It's probably wasted vs the RCA out of the more modest preamp that are the C-2 (same pre as Nfb1) and Sa31.
  
 Kingwa confirmed that fact :
 "The Master 1 had the balance design, if only with RCA output, it only working with 2 of 4 channels built in amp, it is a bit waste the money."


----------



## michkhol

freda said:


> It is very nice, Quite sure you will like it. Get a 14 gauge cord or some audiophile cord if you can. Most of the gears from audio-gd benefit from a better/bigger cord, especially with bass and dynamics. Note that the sound quality will vary during the burn in period (100-200 hours).
> 
> I like mine so much i bought a second pair of cans (meze classic 99) to get the most out my newly put up headphone setup. So relaxing to enjoy a listening session with hf, well seated in the living room.


 

 Thanks for the advice! I will be putting it up against a couple of pro-audio HP amps and see how it goes.


----------



## Currawong

*NFB-1AMP review:*
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/audio-gd-nfb-1amp/reviews/18148
  
*Youtube*:


----------



## FredA

I have put over 100 hours of break-in time on both the K701 and NFB-1AMP. I now keep the NFB-1 constantly on, it is always warm and ready to play at its best. And it sounds just GREAT. It draws you into music. During break-in, there were up and downs, that is typical with audio-gd gears and others. The soundstage with that setup is first grade. The overall sound has finesse and is well balanced, the bass is deep and articulated, in good quantity. It is easy on the ears and it has just the right amount of dynamics,


----------



## eschell27

Recently decided to get a gumby to replace my dac-19 10th AE (currently up for sale if anyone is interested) and pairing it with my C-2 11th AE and HD650M / Draug2c and it really love it. I am planning to soon get a Freya preamp so i can take advantage of the slightly better (or so i've read in comparison with it's SE output) balanced output and then feed my SE amps (C-2 11th and Woo WA2) then being able to add a little tube flavor to my C-2 when i feel the need. Should be fun. But i can't stop scratching the itch that is a Jot (especially paired with the tube buffer on the Freya) to compare with a C-2... keeping an eye out for one without any of the modules installed in the $300 range to pick up and compare.... if anyone has one they are getting rid of PM me please! Been making a lot of changes to my system lately and very happy so far... next week will be a good audio week...going to order Freya, some Sylvania 6sn7gtb tubes, and a Lynx E-22 pci-e card (to replace my current usb chain which i will then be selling off if anyone is interested in some good usb cables, singxer su-1 and uptone regen amber PM me)
  
 Seen a few comparisons between the Jot and C-2 11th / 1AMP... would still love to hear more if anyone out there has any impressions from owning both, which you ended up keeping and why, what dac/HP you were pairing with etc.


----------



## FredA

One thing is for sure about audio-gd headphone amps, it's that they have a very long break-in period. I had noticed the same thing with the master-1 pre, which is now very consistent. The break-in period f the master-1 is well over 300 hours. It seems like it is the same thing for the nfb-1amp. As a matter fact, it still goes from playing perfectly to playing flat, lifeless and not balanced within a day. I look forward to having the perfect sound every time.


----------



## FredA

Break-in done!

I would say i put around 250 hours on it, including several cool down/heat up cycles and the sound has been consistent over the last 2-3 days. And it sounds just like i think it should. Very similar to the master-1 as far as signature goes, if i may compare an hp amp to a pre-amp. I should try it as a pre in my speaker setup pretty soon.

In any case, i like what i am hearing a lot. I love this signature.


----------



## mocenigo

kingwa said:


> The C2 had improved than the older. The power is much stronger.
> 
> Headphone amp Output Power
> ( Max  )25 ohm:   9900MW
> ...


 

 Hi Kingwa
  
 I am very interested in the C-2. I have AKG K812 headphones - what do you think of this combination?
  
  Roberto


----------



## FredA

mocenigo said:


> Hi Kingwa
> 
> I am very interested in the C-2. I have AKG K812 headphones - what do you think of this combination?
> 
> Roberto




If it can help you, I have the k701, which is on the neutral side. Sounds very good cause it gives me an overall rather neutral balance except for some emphasis in the medium range brought by the k701. It is an easy to listen combo, with very good musicality and excellent soundstaging and resolution. You can even clearly hear all the distorsion in these old jazz records, like Bill Evans ones, among my favorites,

Kingwa must have an opinion, just email him.


----------



## mocenigo

freda said:


> I have put over 100 hours of break-in time on both the K701 and NFB-1AMP. I now keep the NFB-1 constantly on, it is always warm and ready to play at its best. And it sounds just GREAT. It draws you into music. During break-in, there were up and downs, that is typical with audio-gd gears and others. The soundstage with that setup is first grade. The overall sound has finesse and is well balanced, the bass is deep and articulated, in good quantity. It is easy on the ears and it has just the right amount of dynamics,


 

 The K701 on its own is not balanced and the NFB-1AMP works best with balanced cans (at least according to the manufacturer). Are your K701 modded to be balanced?
  
  Roberto


----------



## FredA

mocenigo said:


> The K701 on its own is not balanced and the NFB-1AMP works best with balanced cans (at least according to the manufacturer). Are your K701 modded to be balanced?
> 
> Roberto


 
 Yes. It is the lastest version of the K701, which has a 4 wire cable. I have just re-terminated it. I really like the sound of this headset. And its comfort.


----------



## michkhol

Just got the NFB1-AMP, first impressions while it's still "cold" (the Audio-gd claims the 100 hour burn in for all non-Master series). The system is MacPro into 8 channel Metric Halo ULN8, the currently connected amplifiers are Rupert Neve RNHP, Presonus HP4 and the NFB1-AMP. All music was 44/16, jazz, classical, hard rock, pop; the headphones were Focal Utopias. I will compare it to all three plus the stock HP output of the ULN8. The NFB1-AMP was set at low gain.
 The first word that came to my mind after a few seconds of listening to NFB1-AMP was 'liquidity'. Smooth and lively. Comparing to RNHP more bass, wetter sound, wider soundstage. Comparing to the stock ULN8 output - could not discern any difference. Comparing to HP4 less bass but more details in highs. Please note all differences are very subtle, I would not bet on them in a blind testing.
  
 Looking forward to the next round after 100 hours or so. 
  
 YMMV


----------



## Risbo

eschell27 said:


> Recently decided to get a gumby to replace my dac-19 10th AE (currently up for sale if anyone is interested) and pairing it with my C-2 11th AE and HD650M / Draug2c and it really love it. I am planning to soon get a Freya preamp so i can take advantage of the slightly better (or so i've read in comparison with it's SE output) balanced output and then feed my SE amps (C-2 11th and Woo WA2) then being able to add a little tube flavor to my C-2 when i feel the need. Should be fun. But i can't stop scratching the itch that is a Jot (especially paired with the tube buffer on the Freya) to compare with a C-2... keeping an eye out for one without any of the modules installed in the $300 range to pick up and compare.... if anyone has one they are getting rid of PM me please! Been making a lot of changes to my system lately and very happy so far... next week will be a good audio week...going to order Freya, some Sylvania 6sn7gtb tubes, and a Lynx E-22 pci-e card (to replace my current usb chain which i will then be selling off if anyone is interested in some good usb cables, singxer su-1 and uptone regen amber PM me)
> 
> Seen a few comparisons between the Jot and C-2 11th / 1AMP... would still love to hear more if anyone out there has any impressions from owning both, which you ended up keeping and why, what dac/HP you were pairing with etc.


 
  


eschell27 said:


> Recently decided to get a gumby to replace my dac-19 10th AE (currently up for sale if anyone is interested) and pairing it with my C-2 11th AE and HD650M / Draug2c and it really love it. I am planning to soon get a Freya preamp so i can take advantage of the slightly better (or so i've read in comparison with it's SE output) balanced output and then feed my SE amps (C-2 11th and Woo WA2) then being able to add a little tube flavor to my C-2 when i feel the need. Should be fun. But i can't stop scratching the itch that is a Jot (especially paired with the tube buffer on the Freya) to compare with a C-2... keeping an eye out for one without any of the modules installed in the $300 range to pick up and compare.... if anyone has one they are getting rid of PM me please! Been making a lot of changes to my system lately and very happy so far... next week will be a good audio week...going to order Freya, some Sylvania 6sn7gtb tubes, and a Lynx E-22 pci-e card (to replace my current usb chain which i will then be selling off if anyone is interested in some good usb cables, singxer su-1 and uptone regen amber PM me)
> 
> Seen a few comparisons between the Jot and C-2 11th / 1AMP... would still love to hear more if anyone out there has any impressions from owning both, which you ended up keeping and why, what dac/HP you were pairing with etc.


 
 Hi *eschell27,*
  
*​*Just interested why you're replacing Singxer & NOS19 as I remember reading your very positive impressions of the combo. In fact, you made me pull the trigger on Singxer which is now on its way to me. Did you get off it in the end or is it just an urge to try something new? Like I said, i'm just curious because I also own NOS19 and can't really fault it, although I hope that leaving the USB behind can only mean a step up in SQ. I have a C-2 11th too which I use as pre.


----------



## eschell27

risbo said:


> Hi *eschell27,*
> 
> *​*Just interested why you're replacing Singxer & NOS19 as I remember reading your very positive impressions of the combo. In fact, you made me pull the trigger on Singxer which is now on its way to me. Did you get off it in the end or is it just an urge to try something new? Like I said, i'm just curious because I also own NOS19 and can't really fault it, although I hope that leaving the USB behind can only mean a step up in SQ. I have a C-2 11th too which I use as pre.


 
  
  
 I had the SU-1 and DAC19 10th AE...i was still very happy with it but started getting curious about the Schiit Multibit dacs and trying out a transport solution that completely bypassed usb. I'm loving my Lynx E22 feeding Gungnir Multibit, but i have to say value for money the su-1 is hard to beat for a transport, especially if you only have a setup where you can use usb out of a computer as opposed to a pci-e card or stand alone music server/streamer. The su-1 feeding a DAC19 or NOS19 should offer you a nice step up in sound quality over just the usb input on the dac, especially when disabling PLL via the internal jumpers. Hope that's helpful... if there is anything else i can tell you feel free to write back or PM.


----------



## Risbo

eschell27 said:


> I had the SU-1 and DAC19 10th AE...i was still very happy with it but started getting curious about the Schiit Multibit dacs and trying out a transport solution that completely bypassed usb. I'm loving my Lynx E22 feeding Gungnir Multibit, but i have to say value for money the su-1 is hard to beat for a transport, especially if you only have a setup where you can use usb out of a computer as opposed to a pci-e card or stand alone music server/streamer. The su-1 feeding a DAC19 or NOS19 should offer you a nice step up in sound quality over just the usb input on the dac, especially when disabling PLL via the internal jumpers. Hope that's helpful... if there is anything else i can tell you feel free to write back or PM.


 
  
 I see what you mean. Thanks for clarifying that. Well, I'm stuck with my Mac Mini for now which means USB out is my only real option (discounting optical of course). I was also intrigued by the idea of swapping the Amanero board in my NOS19 for the I2s one and I think it might be you who mentioned doing the same, in one of your posts. I wonder how much the module would cost to order from Kingwa and how difficult a job it is to install it? The Singxer has the I2s out and I would like to use it even if it brought only a marginal improvement over coax. If you have any experience to share on this subject I would appreciate it. (If anyone else would like to chime in on this, please do).


----------



## FredA

One neat trick for those of you burning their nfb-1amp: to burn the volume control resistors evenly, do some burning with volume set to 0. This way, all resistor in the ladder are active. This is to do if you feel not all levels play with the same sound quality. In any case, my amp is even playing better after i did this for 48 hours. It plays very very well, i am very impressed by it. I like the match with my new Meze Classic 99 (re-wired to balanced with occ). I like it a lot with the k701. That amp is an outstanding value and one should not give up on it before proper break-in is done. The same is to be said about the master series, and even more so: it needs between 500 to 800 hours before stabilizing completely.


----------



## kwatch

I had Schiit Bifrost 4490 stacked with Asgard 2 and recently sold the Bifrost. I purchased Schiit Mimby recently.  I use Senn HD600 single ended. I planned to replace the Asgard with Jotunheim but I am not sure now after reading reviews. If I decide to go with Audio-GD amp, which will get the most out of the Mimby between C2 and NFB-1AMP? I can terminate the S/E connector to balanced. Thanks.


----------



## FredA

The Mimby does not have balanced outputs. So the C-2 should be enough. I chose the nfb-1amp mainly because i wanted to use the balanced output of my DAC. Otherwise, i would have gotten the c-2. Another reason would be if you want to use a very long cable, like i do. Balanced is better for long runs. The down side is you have to mod your headphone cable to balanced to get all the power.


----------



## kwatch

If I connect the Mimby to NFB-1AMP, will SQ be worse than connecting to C2? It looks like the 1AMP is future proof if I buy balanced DAC.


----------



## Currawong

kwatch said:


> If I connect the Mimby to NFB-1AMP, will SQ be worse than connecting to C2? It looks like the 1AMP is future proof if I buy balanced DAC.


 

 I don't see why it would be worse. The NFB-1AMP will just split the signal into balanced. The only time getting an NFB-1AMP isn't worth it is if you're only going to use single-ended headphones (the 6.3mm/1/4" socket).


----------



## kwatch

The SE OUT from the Mimby to the 1AMP SE IN will be converted to balanced signal if I connect my Senn HD 600 terminated with XLR, right?


----------



## Astral Abyss

kwatch said:


> The SE OUT from the Mimby to the 1AMP SE IN will be converted to balanced signal if I connect my Senn HD 600 terminated with XLR, right?


 
  
 Yes, it will.


----------



## lentoviolento

kwatch said:


> I had Schiit Bifrost 4490 stacked with Asgard 2 and recently sold the Bifrost. I purchased Schiit Mimby recently.  I use Senn HD600 single ended. I planned to replace the Asgard with Jotunheim but I am not sure now after reading reviews. If I decide to go with Audio-GD amp, which will get the most out of the Mimby between C2 and NFB-1AMP? I can terminate the S/E connector to balanced. Thanks.





Jot is great but unless you go balanced you don't get much juice and sonically speaking is identical to the asgard2. 
Get the c2. Plenty of power for any can, maybe even the he6. I personally don't like senn 600,if you want to get something more from your music, try audeze. I have mimby with c2 and with the jumpers to get warmer sound, im very happy. Oh you get the remote too...


----------



## kwatch

Has anyone tried both the 1/4 and XRL outputs on the C-2? Hove you noticed a difference in the sound quality? How about the same test run on the 1AMP?


----------



## Currawong

kwatch said:


> Has anyone tried both the 1/4 and XRL outputs on the C-2? Hove you noticed a difference in the sound quality? How about the same test run on the 1AMP?


 

 The XLR output on the C-2 will be connected directly to the 1/4" output so the sound will be identical. With the NFB-1AMP, the XLR output is connected to both "sides" of the balanced circuit, whereas the 1/4" output will only be connected to one half, which will, depending on the headphones, have a minor effect on the sound.


----------



## kwatch

If I use the 4 pin XLR male balanced to 1/4 female adaptor connecting to the 1Amp's balanced headphone jack, will the headphone get a full functionality of balanced output?


----------



## Astral Abyss

kwatch said:


> If I use the 4 pin XLR male balanced to 1/4 female adaptor connecting to the 1Amp's balanced headphone jack, will the headphone get a full functionality of balanced output?



That'll bring out the magic smoke.


----------



## thecrow

..


----------



## kwatch

I am about to order NFB-1AMP but I have a question regarding the display auto off function.

Does this mean the display auto off function is built in now?
http://audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB1AMP/NFB1AMPEN_Use.htm

*The display auto dark :  *Push into the jumper is auto dark .Please operate the jumper while the unit power off .


----------



## gto88

kwatch said:


> I am about to order NFB-1AMP but I have a question regarding the display auto off function.
> 
> Does this mean the display auto off function is built in now?
> http://audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB1AMP/NFB1AMPEN_Use.htm
> ...


It seems that way.  there are jumpers included as I remember.


----------



## Astral Abyss

kwatch said:


> I am about to order NFB-1AMP but I have a question regarding the display auto off function.
> 
> Does this mean the display auto off function is built in now?
> http://audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB1AMP/NFB1AMPEN_Use.htm
> ...



Yeah, you just have to change the jumper setting.  The only thing I don't like is that the display doesn't completely turn off.  There's still a "dash" in the middle of the display, which I guess is to let you know the amp is on.  I would have preferred if it just turned off completely.


----------



## thebkt

G'day,

I'm on the cusp of ordering an NFB-1 amp, however I've got one question regarding the custom gain options.  I'll be driving a pair of HE-560's (45ohm, 90db), so does anyone know if I'll need order +(x) gain?  Or should the default 16db gain suffice?  

Based on everything I've been able to read thus far, I'm under the impression the default gain should be fine, but I'd just like to get piece of mind before taking the plunge.

Thanks!


----------



## gto88

The default is very capable already.
It drives my HEK with authority, I don't see any problem to drive HE-560.


----------



## thebkt

Great to hear!

I figured it would be fine, given the ~8000mw on tap around 45ohm, but just wanted to double check.

Cheers!


----------



## FredA

thebkt said:


> Great to hear!
> 
> I figured it would be fine, given the ~8000mw on tap around 45ohm, but just wanted to double check.
> 
> Cheers!


8w is if you run them balanced. I am looking forward to hearing about this match. I have had an eye on the HE560 for a long time.


----------



## thebkt

Ordering a balanced cable right now


----------



## FredA

FredA said:


> 8w is if you run them balanced. I am looking forward to hearing about this match. I have had an eye on the HE560 for a long time.


Good. Should sound well.


----------



## thebkt

So I've requested an order and asked about the gain.  For anyone else in a similar boat this might help:

_"If your DAC output level is not over 2.5+2.5V on balance, I am advice boost another 6-9 DB is better for HE 560."
_
I mentioned that my current DAC (Topping D30) has a max output of 2.1V (though I'm most likely going to upgrade to a Modi Multibit), I got the following response:

_"For single ended DAC, I am advice 9 DB boost."
_
I'm opting for the 6db boost, as I will also be running HD6xx's once they arrive, along with with my DT770's.  Plus I'm going to keep myself open to getting a DAC-19/NFB-1 DAC later down the road (when I can afford to throw <$800CAD around for a DAC).

Anyway, I've got one question in regards to ordering from Audio-gd (first timer here).  I've received the '_Audio-gd quote list' _with the all inclusive price and order no.  on it.  Do I fill out my details on that sheet before paying through paypal?  FWIW, I've done a bunch of searching and reading through audio-gd threads on here and the google, but haven't been able to get clarity on the next step.

Thank you,
Guy B


----------



## Astral Abyss

thebkt said:


> So I've requested an order and asked about the gain.  For anyone else in a similar boat this might help:
> 
> _"If your DAC output level is not over 2.5+2.5V on balance, I am advice boost another 6-9 DB is better for HE 560."
> _
> ...



Yeah, go ahead and fill out all the information they requested and give them a confirmation that everything you requested is correct on the order sheet.  They'll send you an invoice via Paypal at that point.


----------



## thebkt (Sep 12, 2017)

I can't get the thought out of my head that 0db gain should be fine.  My source will be a single ended DAC (for now) with an output of 2v.  I'll be using the balanced headphone-out, so unless the DAC output drastically matters, I'd hate to think I'm running too much gain, that could affect the sound?

I guess I'm just unclear on whether the boosted gain is needed, because if not, I'd rather not have more than I need.  I don't ever see myself getting HE-6.  If anything I'll grab a pair of LCD-(?)'s later down the line.

Is it feasible to modify the gain myself once I have the amp?  For example, should I determine that +6db is more than I need and want to go back, I would be able to?


----------



## Astral Abyss

thebkt said:


> I can't get the thought out of my head that 0db gain should be fine.  My source will be a single ended DAC (for now) with an output of 2v.  I'll be using the balanced headphone-out, so unless the DAC output drastically matters, I'd hate to think I'm running too much gain, that could affect the sound?
> 
> I guess I'm just unclear on whether the boosted gain is needed, because if not, I'd rather not have more than I need.  I don't ever see myself getting HE-6.  If anything I'll grab a pair of LCD-(?)'s later down the line.
> 
> Is it feasible to modify the gain myself once I have the amp?  For example, should I determine that +6db is more than I need and want to go back, I would be able to?



I ran my HE-6 off my C-2 for a while with the default 10db gain.  Never went over 80 (out of 100) on the volume dial.  Keep in mind I was using a DAC-19 and S-19 with the ACSS connection.

If you are connecting via RCA to the C-2, you can open up the unit and change a couple jumpers to boost the gain from 10db to 19db.  This is on top of any extra boost you custom order.  You can't use the boost jumpers on ACSS though, only RCA.

The problem you will run into if you go for the extra factory gain option is that it's going to give you very little play on the volume dial with efficient headphones.  For instance, my LCD-XC on the C-2 was quite loud in the low 20s on the volume dial.

You'd probably be ok going with the +3 or +6db option, but I definitely wouldn't do +9 unless you were only ever going to use this amp with HE-560.

Oh, and any gain changes you order from Audio-gd will not be able to be undone.


----------



## thebkt

Astral Abyss said:


> The problem you will run into if you go for the extra factory gain option is that it's going to give you very little play on the volume dial with efficient headphones.  For instance, my LCD-XC on the C-2 was quite loud in the low 20s on the volume dial.
> 
> You'd probably be ok going with the +3 or +6db option, but I definitely wouldn't do +9 unless you were only ever going to use this amp with HE-560.
> 
> Oh, and any gain changes you order from Audio-gd will not be able to be undone.


Well, the NFB-1 has a default 16db gain, and ~7W output at 43ohm, which based on everything I've read, should be more than enough.  It does make me wonder how much of a difference the output voltage of the DAC will make.  The DAC-19 and S-19 both have the 2.5V output that was recommended, but the vast majority of DAC options I'm considering right now are all around 2.0v.  I did try to use some of NwAvGuy's calculations to figure out if the default gain of the NFB-1 would suffice for the 560, but it just left my head spinning, as I wasn't sure of which variables related to what values in his formulas.  

At the end of the day, I'm sure the amp's going to be awesome regardless.  I just hope that it's versatility isn't compromised by a lack of volume control across the vastly differing requirements of the headphones that may be run through it.


----------



## thebkt

Astral Abyss said:


> Oh, and any gain changes you order from Audio-gd will not be able to be undone.


I had some more correspondence, and was advised by Kingwa that you can order replacement gain boards should it not be enough.  They cost the same as if you were to option them when ordering originally ($20/25/30) plus shipping.  With this in mind I decided to go with the default gain so that I have maximum versatility with my other cans.


----------



## thebkt

FredA said:


> 8w is if you run them balanced. I am looking forward to hearing about this match. I have had an eye on the HE560 for a long time.


 My NFB-1AMP arrived on Thursday and I'm happy to report that I'm very happy! I found that even with my old amp the Mimby smoothed out the table response of my 560's to a pretty great degree. With the n1amp they just sound tighter, a tad punchier and very smooth up high. 

I'm also have zero issue getting it nice and loud with either SE or balanced. In fact, on high gain I have the volume around 25-30 with the latter being too loud for most modern stuff/metal. SE is about 10 clicks up for the same levels.

Interestingly, I didn't at all like how my dt770's sounded with the n1amp.  They sound much more intense with seriously boomy bass that sounds drastically inaccurate next to the 560's. Makes sense given the price levels of the two, but it wasn't nearly as pronounced a difference on my topping A30.

Oh, the soundstage is significantly larger to, with some fantastic details now apparent that I've never heard before in plenty of songs. I was also impressed by the instrument separation.

Sure, there's no doubt better amps and DAC's available, but right now, I'm stoked. I look forward to getting home from work each day just to get a few tracks in.  This is a good spot to be in


----------



## gearofwar

I'm currently looking at NFB-1AMP to pair with my SD modded HD800. Would you someone here mind sharing with me your experiences between the amp and this hp? also how well it's compared to other amps in 1k bracket. This amp doesn't seem like getting that much attention around.


----------



## FredA

thebkt said:


> My NFB-1AMP arrived on Thursday and I'm happy to report that I'm very happy! I found that even with my old amp the Mimby smoothed out the table response of my 560's to a pretty great degree. With the n1amp they just sound tighter, a tad punchier and very smooth up high.
> 
> I'm also have zero issue getting it nice and loud with either SE or balanced. In fact, on high gain I have the volume around 25-30 with the latter being too loud for most modern stuff/metal. SE is about 10 clicks up for the same levels.
> 
> ...



Ordered a pair of he-560 i should get on Wednesday. Looking forward to it based on you feeback.


----------



## arielext

Is the NFB-1AMP worth getting knowing my main headphones are the Hifiman Edition X v2?


----------



## lentoviolento

no. it doesn t make any sense


----------



## thebkt

lentoviolento said:


> no. it doesn t make any sense


Care to elaborate?


----------



## gto88

I like my NFB-1AMP with my HE1000 V2, the only complain is, it is too big comparing with most amp today.


----------



## FredA

gto88 said:


> I like my NFB-1AMP with my HE1000 V2, the only complain is, it is too big comparing with most amp today.


I have it now with the he560. What a great match. But i am dreaming of a Master-9 with the he1000v2.


----------



## lentoviolento

You don't need all that power.. You can drive it even with a mojo or less... And if you are one of those guys who believe in sinergy, i always found audio gd s amps(nfb11, nfb1 and c2) too Bright... Best hp to pair with audio gd was lcd2 balanced


----------



## FredA (Jan 19, 2018)

lentoviolento said:


> You don't need all that power.. You can drive it even with a mojo or less... And if you are one of those guys who believe in sinergy, i always found audio gd s amps(nfb11, nfb1 and c2) too Bright... Best hp to pair with audio gd was lcd2 balanced


My nfb-1 amp is anything but bright. I even use a slightly bright ic to connect it to my r2r 7, which is also slighly bright, and it is plugged to the wall with a power cord that makes the sound still a little brighter and the end result is perfect as far as the highs are concerned, The he560 are a great match, and they sound even better with the nfb-1amp driven balanced. I really enjoy this setup a lot and am even spending as much listening time on the he560 as do with speakers which is very unusual. The he560 have excellent neutrality and bass response. Little coloration.


----------



## uelover

Personally, I find that all Hifiman headphones (with the exception of HE-5 and  Susvara which I have never tried before) pairs very well with Audio-GD Amp, and even better so when driven balanced.


----------



## i019791

lentoviolento said:


> You don't need all that power.. You can drive it even with a mojo or less... And if you are one of those guys who believe in sinergy, i always found audio gd s amps(nfb11, nfb1 and c2) too Bright... Best hp to pair with audio gd was lcd2 balanced


Too bright relative to which amps ?


----------



## winja

The nfb 1 amp is not bright at all, more on the side of neutral.


----------



## Suopermanni

Thinking of buying the NFB-1 amp to go with my balanced cans and balanced DAC. I've currently got a Jotunheim as an amp but wondering if I can do better?


----------



## FredA

Suopermanni said:


> Thinking of buying the NFB-1 amp to go with my balanced cans and balanced DAC. I've currently got a Jotunheim as an amp but wondering if I can do better?


Depending on the cans. With the he-560 and k701, it is very good. More so with the he-560.


----------



## DW75 (Jun 7, 2018)

It appears I am resurrecting a thread here. I ended up buying an Audio-GD C-2 headphone amp (2017 edition) about an hour ago. This should be an awesome upgrade from my M-Stage HPA-2, which is the stand alone amp version. For headphones, I have the Amiron Home for open back, and Nightowl Carbon for closed back. I will put up my impressions once I get it. I am excited to try this puppy out.

Edit: I just wanted to say thanks to Kingwa as well. The customer service, and quick responses to questions are second to none with this company. I am super impressed.


----------



## GU1DO

Hi ,, 
i have Audio-gd C-2 11th Anniversary Edition in 110v 
is there anyway to convert it to 220v ?

Thanks


----------



## FredA (Jun 12, 2018)

GU1DO said:


> Hi ,,
> i have Audio-gd C-2 11th Anniversary Edition in 110v
> is there anyway to convert it to 220v ?
> 
> Thanks


Normally yes. Contact Kingwa. You need some qualifications, it's not just flipping a switch. The transfo may even have to be replaced but i doubt it.


----------



## GU1DO

FredA said:


> Normally yes. Contact Kingwa. You need some qualifications, it's not just flipping a switch. The transfo may even have to be replaced but i doubt it.


ah , i see , i thought there is a jumper or switch ,, thanks ..


----------



## DW75

I should have my C-2 (2017 Edition) headphone amp in a few days. I am excited to try it out. I will put up my impressions once I get it.


----------



## DW75

Did anyone have to pay duty for NFB-1AMP, or C-2 ? I am pretty pissed off. I already had to pay 670 bucks Canadian for the C-2, due to our weak ass dollar. I am sick and tired of paying more than goods are worth in Canada as is. I am now being asked by DHL to pay almost 50 dollars more in duty when it is delivered on Monday. That is almost 720 bucks Canadian now it will cost to get the C-2 amp. I am not impressed at all. I was told that these fees would be avoided. I am going to refuse the package and get a refund. I will not pay anymore.


----------



## FredA

DW75 said:


> Did anyone have to pay duty for NFB-1AMP, or C-2 ? I am pretty pissed off. I already had to pay 670 bucks Canadian for the C-2, due to our weak ass dollar. I am sick and tired of paying more than goods are worth in Canada as is. I am now being asked by DHL to pay almost 50 dollars more in duty when it is delivered on Monday. That is almost 720 bucks Canadian now it will cost to get the C-2 amp. I am not impressed at all. I was told that these fees would be avoided. I am going to refuse the package and get a refund. I will not pay anymore.


That 's not so bad.


----------



## DW75

I would like to see anyone in the USA who can get one of these for 500 shipped end up paying 720 bucks instead. They would not say "that's not so bad".


----------



## FredA

DW75 said:


> I would like to see anyone in the USA who can get one of these for 500 shipped end up paying 720 bucks instead. They would not say "that's not so bad".


You are talking canadian dollars i assume, so sure, it's not the same.


----------



## gto88

I paid US$540, including shipping, 2years ago.
It is about CDN $713 today.


----------



## FredA

I ordered two opa2132p to test with my nfb-1amp as a servo-control upgrade. Just realised the nfb-1amp needed 4.... Ordered two more this morning.


----------



## DW75

I have had the C-2 2017 Edition amp hooked up for about two hours or so. I was rather annoyed about having to pay duty, but I will let it pass. Oh man, this is a stunner of an amp. It is almost completely neutral from top to bottom in the frequencies. There is a small amount of warmth to the mids. Vocals and instruments are very engaging. In the highest treble frequencies, starting right around 14kHz and above, there is slight roll off.  It is certainly not veiled. It is just missing that last bit of sparkle. Other than that, this amp is totally neutral in signature. Bass response on this amp is extremely tight and quick. There is no boomyness or bloom to the bass at all. It is just very resolving. Soundstage surprises me in how it is presented. It has a unique and almost holographic nature to it. Treble is smooth, and no grain is present. Cymbals and snare drums sound correct. This is something I really pay attention too when I listen to audio equipment. I am obsessed with wanting drums to sound correct. As I mentioned, there is a slight roll off in the upper treble, but I would imagine this will probably open up after burn in. I only have 2 hours on it so far. Power output on this amp is immense. With my Nightowl Carbon, on low gain, it is very loud at only 35 on the dial on new albums. Build quality on this amp is very impressive. It is an absolute tank. At about 12 pounds, you can tell how much effort has gone into making this puppy sound awesome. First impressions, I am very impressed.


----------



## FredA

DW75 said:


> I have had the C-2 2017 Edition amp hooked up for about two hours or so. I was rather annoyed about having to pay duty, but I will let it pass. Oh man, this is a stunner of an amp. It is almost completely neutral from top to bottom in the frequencies. There is a small amount of warmth to the mids. Vocals and instruments are very engaging. In the highest treble frequencies, starting right around 14kHz and above, there is slight roll off.  It is certainly not veiled. It is just missing that last bit of sparkle. Other than that, this amp is totally neutral in signature. Bass response on this amp is extremely tight and quick. There is no boomyness or bloom to the bass at all. It is just very resolving. Soundstage surprises me in how it is presented. It has a unique and almost holographic nature to it. Treble is smooth, and no grain is present. Cymbals and snare drums sound correct. This is something I really pay attention too when I listen to audio equipment. I am obsessed with wanting drums to sound correct. As I mentioned, there is a slight roll off in the upper treble, but I would imagine this will probably open up after burn in. I only have 2 hours on it so far. Power output on this amp is immense. With my Nightowl Carbon, on low gain, it is very loud at only 35 on the dial on new albums. Build quality on this amp is very impressive. It is an absolute tank. At about 12 pounds, you can tell how much effort has gone into making this puppy sound awesome. First impressions, I am very impressed.


Wait until you see the inside with your own eyes. It's just so well put together. Beautiful, really, The sound will evolve a bit but you described the signature very well. In my setup, i use a 10-feet extension that adds a lot of warmth. To compensate, i use a slightly bright interconnect to the dac.


----------



## Astral Abyss

DW75 said:


> I have had the C-2 2017 Edition amp hooked up for about two hours or so. I was rather annoyed about having to pay duty, but I will let it pass. Oh man, this is a stunner of an amp. It is almost completely neutral from top to bottom in the frequencies. There is a small amount of warmth to the mids. Vocals and instruments are very engaging. In the highest treble frequencies, starting right around 14kHz and above, there is slight roll off.  It is certainly not veiled. It is just missing that last bit of sparkle. Other than that, this amp is totally neutral in signature. Bass response on this amp is extremely tight and quick. There is no boomyness or bloom to the bass at all. It is just very resolving. Soundstage surprises me in how it is presented. It has a unique and almost holographic nature to it. Treble is smooth, and no grain is present. Cymbals and snare drums sound correct. This is something I really pay attention too when I listen to audio equipment. I am obsessed with wanting drums to sound correct. As I mentioned, there is a slight roll off in the upper treble, but I would imagine this will probably open up after burn in. I only have 2 hours on it so far. Power output on this amp is immense. With my Nightowl Carbon, on low gain, it is very loud at only 35 on the dial on new albums. Build quality on this amp is very impressive. It is an absolute tank. At about 12 pounds, you can tell how much effort has gone into making this puppy sound awesome. First impressions, I am very impressed.



Lucky for me I guess that my hearing cuts out right after 14k.  All I hear over that is the ringing of my tinnitus I've had for 20 years.


----------



## DW75

In hearing tests, the last frequency I can hear is 18kHz.


----------



## Astral Abyss

DW75 said:


> In hearing tests, the last frequency I can hear is 18kHz.


That's extremely good.  Protect it as long as you can!  That's not just with loud music, but environmental issues as well... like working in server and mainframe rooms for years.  Also, illness, and in my case severe allergies, can damage your hearing over time as well.


----------



## DW75 (Jun 19, 2018)

About 7 years ago, I ended up with a horrendous cold, and I got fluid build up stuck in my inner ear behind the ear drum of my left ear. It ended up hardening, and I had terrible ear pain. It totally affected my hearing, and everything was somewhat muffled sounding for months, along with random ringing noise. I ended up learning a technique to be able to open the eustachian tube in the ear, and then I put hydrogen peroxide in there. After about 2 hours of the peroxide sizzling in my ear and cooking the blockage of mucus like a deep fryer, the stuff came out. After that, everything has been fine since.


----------



## thebkt

DW75 said:


> I have had the C-2 2017 Edition amp hooked up for about two hours or so. I was rather annoyed about having to pay duty, but I will let it pass. Oh man, this is a stunner of an amp. It is almost completely neutral from top to bottom in the frequencies. There is a small amount of warmth to the mids. Vocals and instruments are very engaging. In the highest treble frequencies, starting right around 14kHz and above, there is slight roll off.  It is certainly not veiled. It is just missing that last bit of sparkle. Other than that, this amp is totally neutral in signature. Bass response on this amp is extremely tight and quick. There is no boomyness or bloom to the bass at all. It is just very resolving. Soundstage surprises me in how it is presented. It has a unique and almost holographic nature to it. Treble is smooth, and no grain is present. Cymbals and snare drums sound correct. This is something I really pay attention too when I listen to audio equipment. I am obsessed with wanting drums to sound correct. As I mentioned, there is a slight roll off in the upper treble, but I would imagine this will probably open up after burn in. I only have 2 hours on it so far. Power output on this amp is immense. With my Nightowl Carbon, on low gain, it is very loud at only 35 on the dial on new albums. Build quality on this amp is very impressive. It is an absolute tank. At about 12 pounds, you can tell how much effort has gone into making this puppy sound awesome. First impressions, I am very impressed.


Of course you're going to pay duties on an amp as they're under a category that has a duty fee.  Some components (DAC's, I think?)  are under a different category, thus you won't be charged duties.  But amps most certainly incur duties.  No sense in being mad at DHL for following the rules.  Sure it's a harsh truth, but in the end, it's on you to do the homework and know what additional costs will be coming 

nb. I say this as an Australian in Canada who grew up with taxes included and a livable minimum wage, so tipping and manually calculating tax on every purchase is a bit of a reality check every time.


----------



## DW75

It is not about being unaware of duties and taxes in Canada, or that I didnt do research of how things are. I am just sick and tired of paying way more for things in this country.


----------



## thebkt

DW75 said:


> I am now being asked by DHL to pay almost 50 dollars more in duty when it is delivered on Monday. That is almost 720 bucks Canadian now it will cost to get the C-2 amp. I am not impressed at all. *I was told that these fees would be avoided. I am going to refuse the package and get a refund. I will not pay anymore.*


 That's on you man.  I sympathize, but if you know you'll be paying duties then how can you complain when they send you an expected bill?

In any case, at least you ended up with a kickass amp and are enjoying it, so it all worked out in the end!


----------



## thecrow

DW75 said:


> It is not about being unaware of duties and taxes in Canada, or that I didnt do research of how things are. I am just sick and tired of paying way more for things in this country.


Move to China - the freight charge will be less. Just sayin’


----------



## DW75

How about we talk about these awesome amps ? I left my C-2 2017 Edition running with music going all night, and all day today. The amp now has 22-24 hours of use on it. Changes are already easily noticeable. Bass has tightened up somewhat, and is even more defined than out of the box. Soundstage and imaging are showing the greatest improvement. There is an increase in width and depth. Instruments are more layered, and additional details are becoming more present. Guitar and vocals are starting to go more up front. I am really impressed with this amp. It does not sound like a 500 US dollar level unit. It performs like an amp costing double that amount.


----------



## DW75

I left the C-2 amp running with music going all night long, and all day again today. It must have about 40 hours use on it now. The slightly rolled off upper treble I was hearing out of the box is no longer there. Things have opened up in the highest upper frequencies quite nicely. The slight warmth in the mids is still present. It makes music sound fantastic. Audible distortion on this amp is non-existent. There is no harshness, clicks, pops, or grain. The amp just lets you enjoy the  music as it was meant to be heard. This is just an incredible headphone amp. The upgrade from my previous M-Stage HPA-2 is drastic. It pairs extremely well with my Nightowl Carbon and Amiron Home headphones. More people need to get themselves either the NFB1 or C-2. It is too good to pass up. I seriously doubt you can find another headphone amp better at 500 US. The power output on this puppy is just immense. On my Amiron Home, using high gain, it is loud on newer albums at only 25-28 volume. I love the volume control on this amp. Sometimes you are listening to something, and you want the volume just one number higher. It is great that it allows this, so you can finely tune the level to an exact amount. I am beyond impressed.


----------



## FredA (Jun 20, 2018)

DW75 said:


> I left the C-2 amp running with music going all night long, and all day again today. It must have about 40 hours use on it now. The slightly rolled off upper treble I was hearing out of the box is no longer there. Things have opened up in the highest upper frequencies quite nicely. The slight warmth in the mids is still present. It makes music sound fantastic. Audible distortion on this amp is non-existent. There is no harshness, clicks, pops, or grain. The amp just lets you enjoy the  music as it was meant to be heard. This is just an incredible headphone amp. The upgrade from my previous M-Stage HPA-2 is drastic. It pairs extremely well with my Nightowl Carbon and Amiron Home headphones. More people need to get themselves either the NFB1 or C-2. It is too good to pass up. I seriously doubt you can find another headphone amp better at 500 US. The power output on this puppy is just immense. On my Amiron Home, using high gain, it is loud on newer albums at only 25-28 volume. I love the volume control on this amp. Sometimes you are listening to something, and you want the volume just one number higher. It is great that it allows this, so you can finely tune the level to an exact amount. I am beyond impressed.


Yes, your talking small increments and perfect left-right balance. And almost silent operation through the headphones. This feature is great. Love the grainless character of the treble. With old record that have saturation distorsion, you can so clearly hear it, meaning the amp is reveiling and faithful. The noise floor is also very low.


----------



## DW75

In terms of headphones and amps, this is it for me. The Burr-Brown PCM1794 DAC on my sound card is pairing quite nicely with the C-2 as well. My sound card was upgraded with Burson Audio V6 Vivid opamps previously, which also provided some great sonic improvements.


----------



## FredA

DW75 said:


> In terms of headphones and amps, this is it for me. The Burr-Brown PCM1794 DAC on my sound card is pairing quite nicely with the C-2 as well. My sound card was upgraded with Burson Audio V6 Vivid opamps previously, which also provided some great sonic improvements.


Being slighly warm, it will go well with anything neutral, slightly warm or slightly bright IMO. Some nights,  i get slightly hard treble through my loudspeakers. I then get the hp on, cause it's never harsh through the nfb-1amp.


----------



## FredA

And one more thing, it makes the bass of the he-560 ABSOLUTELY perfect. Never heard bass that good on speakers actually.


----------



## DW75

I have not tested out the pre-amp section on the C-2 yet. I might try it out tonight. I will say though that the C-2 is revealing abilities in my Amiron Home that the M-Stage was just not capable of offering.


----------



## DW75

I am in 100 percent agreement as well regarding the signature of this amp. Smooth, yet extremely transparent is the name of the game with its performance. It is highly addicting, and you can listen to music for hours without needing a break.


----------



## FredA (Jun 20, 2018)

DW75 said:


> I have not tested out the pre-amp section on the C-2 yet. I might try it out tonight. I will say though that the C-2 is revealing abilities in my Amiron Home that the M-Stage was just not capable of offering.


Excellent hp always scale up with the amp and everything. The C-2 and nfb-1amp also are very good preamps. I did an a to b with my Master-1. The Master-1 has slightly better sounstaging and is more laid back. They are amazingly close, but i prefer the Master-1.


----------



## DW75

Indeed, I am aware. Kingwa sent me an email yesterday, and suggested that I upgrade the power cord as well. He stated that it has already been proven that a 14 gauge cable will improve upper frequency response and transparency on the C-2 and NFB1 even further. Perhaps I will do that at some point.


----------



## FredA (Jun 20, 2018)

DW75 said:


> Indeed, I am aware. Kingwa sent me an email yesterday, and suggested that I upgrade the power cord as well. He stated that it has already been proven that a 14 gauge cable will improve upper frequency response and transparency on the C-2 and NFB1 even further. Perhaps I will do that at some point.


I do have upgraded cords on all my gears. They make a difference, but more so with the bigger audi-gd equipments  that have 3 transformers, with these, the bass is also upgraded. It's with their dacs that the diifference is the biggest.


----------



## DW75

I have not opened up the C-2 yet. I am curious what opamps have been used in it. I might take a look later.


----------



## FredA

DW75 said:


> I have not opened up the C-2 yet. I am curious what opamps have been used in it. I might take a look later.


You have to unscrew the relay boards i think, or at least on nfb-1amp cause there are two side by side.

 In your amp,  they can't be swapped easily, they are not on sockets anymore. In mine, not sure. They should be on sockets. Kingwa usually use the opa2134.


----------



## DW75

A great replacement for OPA2134 are LME49720, LME49860, or LME49170HA metal cans. All 3, especially the metal cans, are a great improvement.


----------



## FredA

In audio-gd's gears, thay are only used as servo-control to eliminate the dc offset. The upgrade is minor.


----------



## borrego (Jun 21, 2018)

DW75 said:


> A great replacement for OPA2134 are LME49720, LME49860, or LME49170HA metal cans. All 3, especially the metal cans, are a great improvement.



This is not your typical portable amp opamp rolling. All the LME opamps you stated are poor choices as DC Servo opamps for the audio-gd ACSS circuit. For obvious reason of different input impedance and power requirement comparing to the OPA2134.

OPA2134 are actually "disqualified" OPA2132 by BB/TI, they have similar power requirement, just that OPA2132 has better DC aplication spec.

If you replace the OPA2134 with other opamps with different power requirement (lower or higher), you risk upsetting the voltage setting for the other parts in the circuit. What do you think those tiny blue VR pots on the audio-gd circuit board are for?


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## gLer

borrego said:


> This is not your typical portable amp opamp rolling. All the LME opamps you stated are poor choices as DC Servo opamps for the audio-gd ACSS circuit. For obvious reason of different input impedance and power requirement comparing to the OPA2134.
> 
> OPA2134 are actually "disqualified" OPA2132 by BB/TI, they have similar power requirement, just that OPA2132 has better DC aplication spec.
> 
> If you replace the OPA2134 with other opamps with different power requirement (lower or higher), you risk upsetting the voltage setting for the other parts in the circuit. What do you think those tiny blue VR pots on the audio-gd circuit board are for?


Well, you know what they say about curiosity...


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## DW75

I never said I was planning on changing opamps. I was just curious what opamps the NFB1 and C-2 are using.


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## FredA (Jun 21, 2018)

borrego said:


> This is not your typical portable amp opamp rolling. All the LME opamps you stated are poor choices as DC Servo opamps for the audio-gd ACSS circuit. For obvious reason of different input impedance and power requirement comparing to the OPA2134.
> 
> OPA2134 are actually "disqualified" OPA2132 by BB/TI, they have similar power requirement, just that OPA2132 has better DC aplication spec.
> 
> If you replace the OPA2134 with other opamps with different power requirement (lower or higher), you risk upsetting the voltage setting for the other parts in the circuit. What do you think those tiny blue VR pots on the audio-gd circuit board are for?


Thanks for these precisions. I once knew and forgot all that, I ordered the 2132p. Just curious. Maybe i should be less curious...

Have you installed 2132ps yourself? It looks like maybe they are on sockets in my 2014 master-1. I could end up putting them in it.


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## DW75

I did another full night of burn in last night, followed by all day again today. It must have about 60 hours on it now. This C-2 2017 Edition is just incredible. More people need to get this amp. It is just too good to pass this one up. Audio-GD has done a great job. The slight roll off in the upper treble that was there out of the box is now completely gone. This sound signature is now about as neutral and balanced as you can get. I am just so impressed with this amp.


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## gLer

DW75 said:


> I did another full night of burn in last night, followed by all day again today. It must have about 60 hours on it now. This C-2 2017 Edition is just incredible. More people need to get this amp. It is just too good to pass this one up. Audio-GD has done a great job. The slight roll off in the upper treble that was there out of the box is now completely gone. This sound signature is now about as neutral and balanced as you can get. I am just so impressed with this amp.


Please don’t say it too loud or too many people will start questioning the ‘value’ of their $1500 amps that don’t sound any better or more powerful than the Audio-Gd’s, and then prices will go up!


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## DW75

Indeed, and so true on the power output of this puppy as well. On new albums, my Amiron Home is very loud on high gain at only 25-28 on the volume. On older discs I am hitting no higher than 35.


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## FredA (Jun 23, 2018)

DW75 said:


> Indeed, and so true on the power output of this puppy as well. On new albums, my Amiron Home is very loud on high gain at only 25-28 on the volume. On older discs I am hitting no higher than 35.


I love the relay volume control's implementation, one very important reason being it performs evenly/splendidly at any level. No sweet spot or coloration anywhere. Too bad the headphones themselves are not like this.


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## borrego

FredA said:


> Have you installed 2132ps yourself? It looks like maybe they are on sockets in my 2014 master-1. I could end up putting them in it.



I have OPA2132P on my Reference 5.32 and OPA2132PA on my Master 1.


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## FredA

borrego said:


> I have OPA2132P on my Reference 5.32 and OPA2132PA on my Master 1.





borrego said:


> I have OPA2132P on my Reference 5.32 and OPA2132PA on my Master 1.


Can you describe the benefits with the master-1? That would be much appreciated as i consider trying this mod,


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## borrego

FredA said:


> Can you describe the benefits with the master-1? That would be much appreciated as i consider trying this mod,



Better dynamic, tighter bass response, much quicker warm-up time.


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## FredA

borrego said:


> Better dynamic, tighter bass response, much quicker warm-up time.


Looking forward to trying it.

Thanks!


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## riso1983

Any good Europe audiogd reseller??


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## HirschiAUT

riso1983 said:


> Any good Europe audiogd reseller??



I bought my NFB-1 Amp from Magna Hifi in the netherlands, and can absolutely recommend them!

https://www.magnahifi.com/en/

I have had lengthy Email conversations with Jos, one of the two owners of the Shop, and he even helped me with used Audio-GD gear i bought, like checking serial numbers and such, just top notch customer service!

Oh and they can also officialy repair any Audio-GD gear, even if you did not buy it from them.

I bought a used C-10 SE power amp 2 years ago. If it ever has any problems i will be happy i dont have to send this 40kg monstrosity to China for repair...


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## riso1983

HirschiAUT said:


> I bought my NFB-1 Amp from Magna Hifi in the netherlands, and can absolutely recommend them!
> 
> https://www.magnahifi.com/en/
> 
> ...


Nice, and thank you.. I'll check their web site for more info.


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## wadi

With Nfb-1 i was hearing background noise with low impadance headphones at 50% volume. I'm not sure if it was unbalanced inputs or amp itself causing the problem.

Since C2 has unbalanced design from input to output i was wondering if anyone had background noise problems with their C2s.


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## maellen

Currently using NFB-1AMP. I only have 2 cans. Senn HD6XX & AKG K7XX. Bought a balanced cable for HD6XX and I haven’t used my K7XX (Single Ended) since then. Hook up the K7XX yesterday and I found that I need to crank up the volume abit higher in order to get comfortable listening volume. HD6XX (balanced) is around 34% volume at low gain setting and K7XX (SE) needs 41-43%. Does this mean NFB-1AMP only churned half of its total power for SE connection?


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## DW75

Yes, you only get half power on the NFB-1AMP if you are using it single ended. The C-2 amp gets full power if using the 1/4 inch jack or the xlr jack.


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## FredA

wadi said:


> With Nfb-1 i was hearing background noise with low impadance headphones at 50% volume. I'm not sure if it was unbalanced inputs or amp itself causing the problem.
> 
> Since C2 has unbalanced design from input to output i was wondering if anyone had background noise problems with their C2s.


It's possible with very sensitive cans. Take note that with a very sensitive hp set, you would end up deaf at that level.


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## alphanumerix1 (Oct 23, 2018)

half the power out of se vs balanced on 1amp? really?

On the audiogd website the power ratings are not displayed in se and balanced just one?

"Yes, you only get half power on the NFB-1AMP if you are using it single ended. The C-2 amp gets full power if using the 1/4 inch jack or the xlr jack."


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## gLer

alphanumerix1 said:


> half the power out of se vs balanced on 1amp? really?
> 
> On the audiogd website the power ratings are not displayed in se and balanced just one?
> 
> "Yes, you only get half power on the NFB-1AMP if you are using it single ended. The C-2 amp gets full power if using the 1/4 inch jack or the xlr jack."


This is correct. The balanced output of the NFB-1 has about twice the rated power of the SE output. The C2 amp is only SE, so has the same amount of power as the balanced output of the NFB-1 amp. In other words, the NFB-1 is designed to be used balanced, with SE output provided mostly for convenience (although it's still very good and powerful). If you only have SE headphones and don't need a balanced connection, the C2 amp is more suitable than the NFB-1 amp. 

The R-28 amp/dac was initially deigned with an SE output that has the same power as the balanced output, but for some reason this was reversed, and so the SE output is limited to half the power of the balanced output, as per the NFB-1.


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## alphanumerix1

gLer said:


> This is correct. The balanced output of the NFB-1 has about twice the rated power of the SE output. The C2 amp is only SE, so has the same amount of power as the balanced output of the NFB-1 amp. In other words, the NFB-1 is designed to be used balanced, with SE output provided mostly for convenience (although it's still very good and powerful). If you only have SE headphones and don't need a balanced connection, the C2 amp is more suitable than the NFB-1 amp.
> 
> The R-28 amp/dac was initially deigned with an SE output that has the same power as the balanced output, but for some reason this was reversed, and so the SE output is limited to half the power of the balanced output, as per the NFB-1.



Right so the power ratings on the website are all balanced then. Thanks


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## FredA

Not to be the party spoiler, but the se out is 1/4 of the power, voltage is half. But it is still more than enough to drive my he560.


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## alphanumerix1

FredA said:


> Not to be the party spoiler, but the se out is 1/4 of the power, voltage is half. But it is still more than enough to drive my he560.



I was told se is 1/3 of balanced by kingwa but yeah still enough to run my he500 but no sense having a balanced amp and not using it for me.


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## thebkt

alphanumerix1 said:


> I was told se is 1/3 of balanced by kingwa but yeah still enough to run my he500 but no sense having a balanced amp and not using it for me.


Just buy a balanced cable?


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## Astral Abyss

alphanumerix1 said:


> I was told se is 1/3 of balanced by kingwa but yeah still enough to run my he500 but no sense having a balanced amp and not using it for me.



If your source is single ended, you might as well just get an SE amp.  The C2 would work just as well and you can still plug balanced connectors into it (they just won't get the benefit of a balanced signal).  I have both the C2 and NFB-1AMP and they both sound excellent.


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## alphanumerix1

thebkt said:


> Just buy a balanced cable?



Yeah I have balanced cables.


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## DW75

Has anyone paired the NFB-11.38 Limited Edition (to use as just a DAC) with the C-2 or NFB-1 headphone amp ? I have a C-2 2017 Edition amp, and I am interested in the 11.38, due to it having the SABRE ES9038 Pro DAC chip. I have a feeling that this would make for an excellent pairing, due to these amps being completely neutral sounding, and the ES9038 Pro also being known as a neutral DAC chip.


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## Focux

if i don't use balanced with my 650 on the NFB1AMP, would that result in a discernible difference?


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## gLer

Focux said:


> if i don't use balanced with my 650 on the NFB1AMP, would that result in a discernible difference?


Yes, a big difference. The NFB-1 is significantly better balanced than SE.


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## prymortal (Apr 29, 2019)

I just got my NFB-1 It arrived today, took 7 days including weekend to arrive to my house in New Zealand.
Currently running it with the SMSL SU-8 & HD800s. Very impressed & seems to be a good combo so far.
(Edit: actually a Really good combo, Use  "standard" EQ & its as often stated its like the amp  disappears, very pleasant neutral sound Or use "original" EQ & its a small change but it seems to put the music just slightly more forward with just a hint of dynamic sound to it. ~If you cant hear it try something with electric organ/keyboard in it.)


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## Nickol

Since I did not find a separate branch for this amplifier (NFB-1AMP) - I will leave my 5 cents here:

Three weeks ago I received my new amplifier NFB-1AMP from Kingwa.

My NFB-1AMP connected to my DAC through XLR, the output level of my source (DAC) is XLR at 4.4 Vrms output.

1) When the volume is set to 0 - I still hear a little little bit of music from the my headphones.
Do you also?

2) I have and use Beyerdynamic Custom Studio headphones (that are not heavy in load, 80 Ohms). 
I also have and use isodynamic headphones with a balanced cable (they have 40 ohms and 100 dB/1mW sensitivity).

When connecting any headphones, for example Beyerdynamic Custom Studio (at gain *L *and 6.3 output), the volume is quiet even at the number 40-50 (with gain *L*). At the same time, increasing the volume on the control from 1 to 40 - there is practically no increase in volume, it is very slow and still quiet.
And the usual average volume is reached only at number 60-70.
Shouldn't he easily pump over undemanding dynamic headphones (like Beyerdynamic Custom Studio) - already at a volume of 30-50 even at gain *L *and 6.3 output?

It also happens with my isodynamic headphones connected to balanced output.
My volume (gain *L*) is slowly adjusted and increased in the interval between 1 and 40 - I barely notice a volume increase. After 45, the increase in volume begins to be a little more noticeable, but only at 65-70 (on gain *L*) I achieve normal volume on my headphones.
At gain *H *- I am, too, between 1 and 35, I also notice a very weak and gradual increase in volume. And only and only starting from the interval 45-55 I achieve normal volume on my headphones.

All that I described above - Is a normal situation? 
....because I don't know..


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## DW75 (Feb 5, 2020)

I own the C-2 2017 Edition amp, which is the single ended version of the NFB-1AMP. Our amps are the same, other than yours being balanced, and mine being the single ended version. It is the same experience with mine. I can also hear the music just slightly at zero volume.

In low gain mode, both of our amps allow for a volume adjustment of 0 to 99. In high gain mode, it is 0 to 63. For any headphone above 32ohm, you should be using this amp in high gain mode. These amps have plenty of power. In high gain mode, my C-2 is very loud with my Beyerdynamic Amiron Home headphone at 28 on the volume. This headphone is 250ohm.


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## DW75

I will also mention as well that these amps are somewhat sensitive to the quality of RCA cables you are using. If you use 3 dollar trash cables, don't bother with them. Get a decent pair of 20 dollar gold plated RCAs. You will notice the difference in sound right away.


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## gLer (Feb 5, 2020)

Nickol said:


> Since I did not find a separate branch for this amplifier (NFB-1AMP) - I will leave my 5 cents here:
> 
> Three weeks ago I received my new amplifier NFB-1AMP from Kingwa.
> 
> ...


This is easy to explain if you understand how the NFB-1 volume control works (hint: read the manual). It's an exponential, not linear, scale (see graph copied from the user manual below), so on L gain at vol 50/100 you're only at about 5% gain, while on H gain you're at 30% on 50/100. My suggestion is to always use Audio-gd amps on H gain; you're not adding noise or losing quality, rather just adding gain quicker with the dial. Very normal behaviour. Great amp by the way, one of the best I've heard.


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## Nickol (Feb 5, 2020)

As I noticed, the diagram (graph) that you brought in the picture is not the same anymore.

On my product page http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB1AMP/NFB1AMPEN19.htm - as you can see, it is already different.


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## Nickol (Feb 5, 2020)

gLer said:


> .....Great amp by the way, one of the best I've heard.



Yes, I also dreamed about this amplifier for a long time to buy it.
And I hope that everything is fine with him. It was transported via DHL, it was well packed.
And according to this information:
http://prntscr.com/qxwf9f
And on this page http://www.audio-gd.com/Baby-EN.htm
  - my amplifier had to go through all the stages of quality control.

I hope all this is really true. Then everything should be fine with my amplifier.


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## gLer (Feb 5, 2020)

Nickol said:


> As I noticed, the diagram (graph) that you brought in the picture is not the same anymore.
> 
> On my product page http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB1AMP/NFB1AMPEN19.htm - as you can see, it is already different.


Interesting, yes. I know Kingwa changed the function of the amp in the R-28 (which I have, and which is the same as the NFB-1) to include a 'true' high gain mode (as opposed to the original NFB-1 where both L and H gain are actually the same power output, and the volume dial simply gets to max power faster on H gain). Not sure if he's revised the NFB-1 amp you have to be more like the R-28, but very possibly, and if so, even at max volume, you're only at 30% power on 100/100 in L gain mode according to your diagram. Bottom line: keep it on H.


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## Nickol

gLer said:


> Interesting, yes. I know Kingwa changed the function of the amp in the R-28 (which I have, and which is the same as the NFB-1) to include a 'true' high gain mode (as opposed to the original NFB-1 where both L and H gain are actually the same power output, and the volume dial simply gets to max power faster on H gain). Not sure if he's revised the NFB-1 amp you have to be more like the R-28, but very possibly, and if so, even at max volume, you're only at 30% power on 100/100 in L gain mode according to your diagram. Bottom line: keep it on H.



Well, it kind of sounds logical that you write, *gLer*. and looking at the diagram (graph) on the product page....


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## Astral Abyss

Nickol said:


> Well, it kind of sounds logical that you write, *gLer*. and looking at the diagram (graph) on the product page....


I'd double/triple check your source output voltage and your software to make sure there isn't a digital volume slider that's turned down, or some type of EQ that's lowered the output gain from the source, or you're running something other than ASIO or WASAPI and Windows is controlling the volume externally.

I'm using an AGD D-77 and NFB1-AMP connected with ACSS cables.  The input comes in to the D-77 through a Singxer SU-1 via I2S.  Source is a PC running JRiver media player (internal volume disabled) and outputting ASIO via USB into the Singxer.  I mention this because I usually listen on low gain between 10-20 volume on the NFB1-AMP.  Anything higher would be painful.  This is on either my ZMF Auteurs that are 300ohm, or my Dharma D1000s that are 26ohm.


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## Nickol (Feb 5, 2020)

Astral Abyss said:


> I'd double/triple check your source output voltage and your software to make sure there isn't a digital volume slider that's turned down, or some type of EQ that's lowered the output gain from the source, or you're running something other than ASIO or WASAPI and Windows is controlling the volume externally.
> 
> I'm using an AGD D-77 and NFB1-AMP connected with ACSS cables.  The input comes in to the D-77 through a Singxer SU-1 via I2S.  Source is a PC running JRiver media player (internal volume disabled) and outputting ASIO via USB into the Singxer.  I mention this because I usually listen on low gain between 10-20 volume on the NFB1-AMP.  Anything higher would be painful.  This is on either my ZMF Auteurs that are 300ohm, or my Dharma D1000s that are 26ohm.



I have already written above that
My NFB-1AMP connected to my DAC through XLR, the output level of my source (DAC) is XLR at 4.4 Vrms output. 

My dac *has no volume control, just like my digital sources*.


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## gLer

Astral Abyss said:


> I mention this because I usually listen on low gain between 10-20 volume on the NFB1-AMP. Anything higher would be painful. This is on either my ZMF Auteurs that are 300ohm, or my Dharma D1000s that are 26ohm.


I think if I had to listen to the Auteur on 10-20 on the R-28/NFB-1 I'd be thinking my amp was broken because I wouldn't be able to hear much!


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## Astral Abyss

gLer said:


> I think if I had to listen to the Auteur on 10-20 on the R-28/NFB-1 I'd be thinking my amp was broken because I wouldn't be able to hear much!


Yeah, it gets really loud, really fast.  Maybe it's the ACSS connection.  I've not tried connecting it via XLR


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## gLer

Astral Abyss said:


> Yeah, it gets really loud, really fast.  Maybe it's the ACSS connection.  I've not tried connecting it via XLR


What I meant was I'd literally hear nothing. I regularly had my Auteur on 50 on high gain. You must have bat hearing!


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## DW75

Has anyone here heard the new Master 19 amp ? It sits right between the C-2/NFB1, and the Master 9. It looks like be an excellent amp.

http://www.audio-gd.com/Master/Master19/Master19EN.htm


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## newabc

DW75 said:


> Has anyone here heard the new Master 19 amp ? It sits right between the C-2/NFB1, and the Master 9. It looks like be an excellent amp.
> 
> http://www.audio-gd.com/Master/Master19/Master19EN.htm



@lator compared drop THX 789 and master 19 here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audio-gd-master-9.692232/post-15490797


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