# New MEIER AUDIO headphone amp "CORDA CLASSIC"



## asmagus

Corda Clasic - probably Concerto successor.


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## EddieE

Make that two new amps: The Jazz


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## Spadge

is there any more info available for these?
   
  Always interested in new Meier products!


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## fdhfdy

Cool. Seemed would never see fancy looking boxes from meier any more.


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## asmagus

Fancy looking boxes = higher price


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## sampson_smith

Subscribed! I am in need of a StageDAC something bad, but if the 'Classic' has a built-in DAC (and hopefully RCA output to feed my WA6SE)... whoa-boy! Exciting news. 
   
  I read somewhere that the Jazz had the same dimensions as the StageDAC. Based on the pic's this cannot be so. I am pretty sure the OP meant that the Classic matched the StageDAC in size. Any truth to this unsubstantiated rumor?


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## asmagus

Corda Clasic will be - I my opinion - "only" amplifier" - no DAC inside.


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## uelover

There won't be any DAC in classic. It is a standalone headamp.


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## sampson_smith

Thanks for letting us know, uelover. I assume that your comment about the StageDAC that you have for sale should read "Classic" and not "Jazz", correct? Based on the image of the Jazz, it is clear that the dimensions will not match the StageDAC. I am curious to know where you found out the dimensions of the Classic/Jazz and the spec's regarding amp-only use. (Based on the schematic, it looks like there could be a DAC in there somewhere, although the natural crossfeed was also implemented in the Concerto without DAC.)
  Regardless, I am eager to hear more about the Classic and all other Jan Meier offerings! _What say you, Mr. Meier?! _


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## sampson_smith

Thanks for the info, asmagus. I assume the thread title should read "Classic" with two "s"'s. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





asmagus said:


> Corda Clasic will be - I my opinion - "only" amplifier" - no DAC inside.


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## oldson

is there a new dac on the horizon too?


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## n00kie

I suppose the two new Meier amps have their names due to a preferred sound signature, am I rite? (Jazz & Classic music) Maybe Jan can reply to it.


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## Jodet

Very interesting, am looking forward to more details.


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## castlevania32

will it stack above a stagedac ? i mean will the dimensions be the same as stagedac?


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## sampson_smith

That is the general consensus, yes. But I do not think than Jan has confirmed this yet. It has been a long while since we last heard from him. Must have his hands tied, designing a new DAC that is 3/4" wider than the Classic.


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## Argo Duck

Quote: 





oldson said:


> is there a new dac on the horizon too?


 


  I recently bought Jan's stagedac (superb, btw). Before committing, asked whether he had a new design in the pipeline. Reply; "I do not
 have plans for a new design yet."
   
  The stagedac is so good, at least as good and maybe better than the Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC I also have, I do not think a new dac design is needed yet.


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## cooperpwc

This is my analysis/guess work in relation to the Classic. After much studying of the graphic and comparing it to existing Meier products, I do think that I have figured it out. ...and I am excited by what I see.
   
  The Classic will not have a DAC. This is the next evolution of Meier's top-of-line headphone amplifiers so we can assume the 64-step attenuator and active balanced ground.
   
  What is new is that this appears to also have a preamplifier function. The evidence of this is that the Crossfeed switch has the 'speaker mode' that widens the sound image with speakers. This was only ever offered before on the Stagedac which also has a preamp function but with an analogue pot. This time the preamp function is also using the high quality 64-step attenuator.
   
  It also looks like the crossfeed has two levels of intensity, plus the tonal balance switch that can compensate for the attenuation that crossfeed causes below 2 khz.
   
  If I am right, this is a truly versatile product.


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## uelover

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> The stagedac is so good, at least as good and maybe better than the Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC I also have, I do not think a new dac design is needed yet.


 


  I am surprised =)


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## Argo Duck

What do you think of your minimax (MM)? You previously owned the StageDAC (SD) too yes? To clarify, I think both are exceptional. They also have different qualities, which I haven't tried to nail down in an A/B. Essentially, I am delighted I have both and, despite my previous statement, see no need to decide which is "better".
   
  I am also going off-topic with this observation - apologies!
   
  Quote: 





uelover said:


> I am surprised =)


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## Jodet

I've pretty well decided it's between this and the Violectric to run my D7000's.
   
  It's going to be a long wait till October.


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## Chris_Himself

Everytime this thread gets bumped to the top I always get excited and think that the amp came out early


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## Jodet

Quote: 





chris_himself said:


> Everytime this thread gets bumped to the top I always get excited and think that the amp came out early


 

 I'd be happy with more info.   If this unit can really be used as a pre-amp I would be even MORE interested in it than I already am!


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## cooperpwc

Quote: 





jodet said:


> I'd be happy with more info.   If this unit can really be used as a pre-amp I would be even MORE interested in it than I already am!


 

 We will see. With the "Speaker" crossfeed mode apparent from the graphic, I am betting on it.


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## Chris_Himself

Quote: 





jodet said:


> I'd be happy with more info.   If this unit can really be used as a pre-amp I would be even MORE interested in it than I already am!


 
   
  Hey could you educate me a little? I understand the concept of a tube amp as a pre-amp since it adds flavor without you having to throw out your favorite amp and you still get all the power of the solid state, but why would you want to pair an amp, let alone a very good one like the Classic with another amp in preamp mode? What is it that solid state preamps do?


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## Jodet

If you have a power amp (and I do) you _need_ a pre-amp, whether it be tube or solid state.  How else do you control the volume?   Switch between inputs? 
   
  I emailed Jan today to ask him about this and got a reply back like four minutes later.   No pre-amp, just a headphone amp.   Oh well.   I'm still interested.  I've never heard cross-feed and am very curious about that.


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## cooperpwc

Okay, I'm way off then. Sorry...


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## Jan Meier

Dear Headfellows,
   
  Bad news: Production of the CLASSIC has been delayed. For the powersupply I want to have Nichicon FG-series capacitors installed (these are the highest grade audio-capacitors they make) but unfortunately Nichicon is not able to deliver untill November/December. It may all have to do with the earthquake-catastrophe in Japan.
   
  Of course, other capacitors could be used, including the FW-series made by Nichicon, but testing has revealed that the FG-series capacitors really do make a difference. Therefore I decided to wait a little bit longer. Please understand.
   
  The amp will be worth the wait though, promised!!
   
  In the meanwhile let me answer a few questions:
   
  > will it stack above a stagedac ? i mean will the dimensions be the same as stagedac?
   
  Yes, the amp will be equally wide. It will just be a little bit higher, due to some large size capacitors.
   
  > The Classic will not have a DAC. This is the next evolution of Meier's top-of-line headphone amplifiers so we can assume the 64-step attenuator and active balanced ground.
   
  Confirmed!
   
  > What is new is that this appears to also have a preamplifier function.
   
  Sorry, but it hasn’t!
   
  > The evidence of this is that the Crossfeed switch has the 'speaker mode' that widens the sound image with speakers.
   
  No, the crossfeed now has three levels (top-to-bottom): High, stereo, medium
   
  Also this crossfeed is active over a much wider frequency range than the filter commonly found on CORDA amplifiers. In that it is comparable to the crossfeed on the STAGEDAC. The result is a more precise imaging.
   
  Cheers
   
  Jan


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## TheWuss

No worries, Jan!
  I'm sure it will be well worth the wait!


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## cooperpwc

Jan, this sounds really great. I am excited about the sophisticated crossfeed in an amp that can drive both low impedance IEMs and ful size headphones.
   
  Kudos for waiting and getting it right. (Also I can't afford it right now.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


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## sampson_smith

Thanks for ringing in, Jan. I have a feeling that the Classic will be the SS amp for me, when it comes out later this year. I can't wait to see some proto-pic's and find out how much you will be selling it for.
   
  Cheers,
   
  Vince


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## Stereotype

Hey,
   
  What about _Jazz vs Concerto_, specially for an Audeze LCD-2? Will _Jazz_ move them as good as _Concerto_ does, or similary? I guess _Classic_ will best both in that and almost all regards, but I can't wait. 
   
  Thanks.


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## RazorJack

I can't wait to read reviews about the Corda Jazz either! Specifically when paired with 600 ohm beyers.
  Isn't there a separate thread for the Jazz btw? It's about to get released any day now.


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## Shoggy

It seems that I will be your man: I have ordered the JAZZ a few weeks ago and also own a pair of DT990 600.
   
  Jan told me on Tuesday that there is a small delay and it should be available in two weeks


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## cooperpwc

Quote: 





shoggy said:


> It seems that I will be your man: I have ordered the JAZZ a few weeks ago and also own a pair of DT990 600.
> 
> Jan told me on Tuesday that there is a small delay and it should be available in two weeks


 

 Awesome! When the times comes, please start a thread and share your impressions.


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## s4nder

Definitely waiting for this one. Any info on price range?


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## oldson

why was the concerto's production life cut short?
  what does this offer that improves on the concerto?


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## monoethylene

Quote: 





s4nder said:


> Definitely waiting for this one. Any info on price range?


 


  A little bit more as the Concerto, at least in Germany and this is my last info from Jan.


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## cooperpwc

oldson said:


> why was the concerto's production life cut short?
> what does this offer that improves on the concerto?




How do you know that that the Concerto's production life was cut short? Please share your information as this is an entirely new assertion. 

Jan has regularly upgraded his amps over the years. In this case, the obvious improvement is a far more sophisticated cross feed circuitry but it also sounds from his posts that the overall power filtering and SQ may have improved. 

(Form factor now matches the Stage DAC too.)


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## Argo Duck

This is all speculation on my part but I am intrigued by the larger form-factor. The Concerto already has an ample power-supply, and puts out 10V and 0.5A max. The corresponding specs for the Jazz are 15V and 0.3A. This makes me wonder what the respective figures are for the Classic. It just might be an even more powerful beast, and satisfy those - I am not one of them - who feel the Concerto doesn't have the power to drive orthodynamics such as the LCD-2 or HE6.
   
  Like cooper, I am keen to hear impressions of the new Jazz.
   
  And indeed, Jan does regularly update his amplifiers. My impression is he enjoys innovation and design more than he does making a product and resting on his laurels. His regular updating is a good thing, and I think the excellence of his constant honing of amplifier performance may tend to be obscured sometimes by new FOTMs. He really is very creative imho.
   
  Also note his recent announcement (May or June) he is cutting back his hours, workload and number of models to concentrate on new designs and on enjoying life. Well deserved, and I hope he is managing to do just that!


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## chronicled

Yeah I read about his plans on his site as well. It looks like he's a one man show. His products look interesting but I don't think much people are talking about them.


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## paconavarro

Cool!


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## Argo Duck

Well, Jan was one of the first sponsors and contributors to headfi. His influence over the years has been enormous. He is indeed a one-man show; but so are many of the makers of our rather rarefied equipment


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## pigmode

IIRC (and I may be wrong) he started out as a DIY authority/enthusiast guy.


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## Argo Duck

You're not wrong. Originally designed and supplied kits for DIY assembly. There's heaps of info all over headfi concerning his activities over the years. Not sure what his doctorate's in - electrical engineering I assume but that is *only* assumption.Of course, what it comes down to is how good are the amps. The ones I've owned - and own - are good. And still getting better. They're not to everyone's taste though.
   
  Then again, no piece of equipment is!


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## monoethylene

"...[size=x-small]Later I studied physics and got a Ph.D. in biomedical engineering at the electronic faculty of a technical university. [/size]"


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## RazorJack

Indeed, and here's the source: http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue10/meierinterview.htm (interview with dr. Jan Meier from 2003). A very interesting read for all Meier fans!


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## Argo Duck

^ Thanks! I had never seen this before. What a truly interesting and informative interview.


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## Shoggy

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Like cooper, I am keen to hear impressions of the new Jazz.


 

 Work in progress... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   

   

   
  I hope I will find some time in the next days to write a bit about it and take some more photos.


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## Argo Duck

Look forward to hearing your impressions in a few days Shoggy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Let us know too if you decide to start a new thread for the Jazz...


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## paconavarro




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## SoulSyde

Subscribed.


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## perfect-pitch

shoggy said:


> Work in progress...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Some further impressions would be fine. I think the Jazz and the upcoming Classic are good game partner for the LCD-2 !!


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## rasmushorn

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> Subscribed.


 


  x2


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## Shoggy

Quote:


argo duck said:


> Let us know too if you decide to start a new thread for the Jazz...


   
  I will start a new thread about it for sure. Next Monday is a national holiday in Germany so the extended weekend should provide enough time for testing. So far I am very happy with the JAZZ


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## perfect-pitch

shoggy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> argo duck said:
> ...




Damn good weather for testing  Looking forward for first impressions.


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## Shoggy

Short info for the followers in this thread: *it has been done*


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## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





shoggy said:


> Short info for the followers in this thread: *it has been done*


 


  Nice! Checking it out as I type this!


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## sampson_smith

Thanks for the excellent review, Shoggy! I loved the clean sense of detail and the use of the Waste Allocator Load Lifter (Earth-Class) unit!


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## RazorJack

Corda Classic photo has been added on the Meier website. Anyone have any idea what the left-most switch is for?


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## 12345142

Not exactly sure what the knob is for, but from the symbols on Corda amps, it's got something to do with gain,


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## SoulSyde

It's odd because they appear to be the same symbol instead of the larger vs smaller waveform that Jan uses to typically indicate high vs low gain (see the center button in the picture).


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## uelover

Intensity of crossfeed?


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## Argo Duck

Taking a hint from the StageDAC, and considering it's on the cross-feed side, it may be intensity or perhaps a combination of delay/intensity.
   
  Likely Jan will see these questions and clarify at some point...


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## incus

input source selector


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## SoulSyde

Quote: 





incus said:


> input source selector


 


  Thanks.  Welcome to Head-Fi.


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## cooperpwc

Definitely not input source selector.
   
  Sorry about your wallet.


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## Okkultus

It's the gain switch, like on the Corda Jazz.


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## Argo Duck

If it's the gain switch, what's the one immediately left of the volume control?
   
  Maybe we should take bets until Jan puts us out of our misery


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## Jan Meier

Dear headfellows,
   
  it's nice if life has some mysteries left. But nonetheless a short description of the control elements on the CLASSIC:
   
  From the left to the right:

 - input selection switch (2 pairs of inputs)

 - crossfeed intensity
 lower position: Medium
 middle position: Stereo (crossfeed off)
 upper position: High

 - Bassenhancement
 lower position: Medium
 middle position: Flat (enhancement off)
 upper position: High

 - Headphone socket

 - Gain-switch

 - Volume control

 - On-Off
   
  Cheers,
   
  Jan


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## Argo Duck

Thanks Jan! Look forward to more details soon, as it is not long to December


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## incus

Quote: 





cooperpwc said:


> Definitely not input source selector.
> 
> Sorry about your wallet.


 

  
  Check


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## cooperpwc

Quote: 





incus said:


> Check


 

 Lots to be sorry about.  
  
  Quote: 





jan meier said:


> Bass enhancement lower position: Medium middle position: Flat (enhancement off) upper position


 

 This is a nice feature. I wonder: does it relate to making the cross-feed more natural or is it an entirely separate enhancement?


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## uelover

Quote: 





cooperpwc said:


> I wonder: does it relate to making the cross-feed more natural or is it an entirely separate enhancement?


 


 The bass boost on StageDAC is a separate feature apart from cross-feed.


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## cooperpwc

Quote: 





uelover said:


> The bass boost on StageDAC is a separate feature apart from cross-feed.


 

 Thanks. This amp is more intriguing all the time...


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## Argo Duck

Certainly it's separately operable, but its intention is to compensate for some _perceived_ slight energy loss below 2kHz which Jan's cross feed circuits may produce. You can find this discussed in the section 'Tonal balance' in the STAGEDAC manual.
   
  I believe Jan is saying this is psychoacoustic rather than real loss (I hope Jan does not mind this quote): "In headphone mode signals that are no longer present in one channel only....no longer stand out and this may feel as if the energy in the frequency range below 2 kHz is slightly reduced. This can be compensated by the ... switch..."


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## cooperpwc

Thanks AiDee. So it is therefore an enhancement to cross feed to produce a more natural (perceived) effect but can otherwise be used without cross feed. All good!


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## Rasmutte

I want one before christmas!
   
  /subscribet


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## Jan Meier

Dear headfellows,
   
  > This is a nice feature. I wonder: does it relate to making the cross-feed more natural or is it an entirely separate enhancement?
   
  > Certainly it's separately operable, but its intention is to compensate for some _perceived_ slight energy loss below 2kHz which Jan's cross feed circuits may produce.
   
  And so it is exactly. Maybe a better name for bass-enhancement would be to "tonal-balance". It is not to be compared to a bass-boost that works only at frequencies below 100 Hz. A headphone that fits the quality of the CLASSIC normally should normally have enough bass by itself and should not need bass-boost at all.
   
  > I want one before christmas!
   
  Maybe you're lucky. It seems that production may start by the end of this month. If all goes well I will have the first batch by the end of November.
   
  I hope to publish more technical details and some pictures from the inside  in a couple of days on my website.
   
  Also a production-prototype has been send to our fellow head-fier Skylab. He should receive his copy sometime next week.
   
  Cheers
   
  Jan


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## Argo Duck

Thanks Jan 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  This is good news as Skylab also receives the new Audez'e LCD3 for review next week; and like me he has the LCD2 rev 1.
   
  BTW, the CONCERTO is still my preferred amp with my LCD2, and just gets better and better! It sounds as powerful as the LYR despite the large difference in output, which shows there's no reason to have more power than you need. And the transparency, detail and clean transients of CONCERTO are superb.
   
  I can only imagine what CLASSIC might be like! I look forward to more technical details and Rob's review.
   
  Cheers, Andre
  
  Quote: 





jan meier said:


> <snip>
> 
> Also a production-prototype has been send to *our fellow head-fier Skylab.* He should receive his copy sometime next week.
> 
> ...


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## FinBenton

Is there any hint about the price range? I was thinking about getting Spl Phonitor but if this is cheaper (<1500€) and has crossfeed, Im going for this one. Is it digital or analog effect?


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## Skylab

Yes, I look forward to trying the Classic with both the LCD-2 and 3


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## Rasmutte

Quote: 





finbenton said:


> Is there any hint about the price range? I was thinking about getting Spl Phonitor but if this is cheaper (<1500€) and has crossfeed, Im going for this one. Is it digital or analog effect?


 

  For some months ago, Jan told me that it was going to be a little bit more expensive than the Meier Concerto. (It was 595 EUR)​

   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yes, I look forward to trying the Classic with both the LCD-2 and 3


 
  Hey, Skylab.
  If you've got some time over, would you mind testing the Classic with the ED8 and write something small about it?
  I would really appreciate it.


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## Skylab

Quote: 





rasmutte said:


> Hey, Skylab.
> If you've got some time over, would you mind testing the Classic with the ED8 and write something small about it?
> I would really appreciate it.


 


  Sure!  That's a good combo to try.


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## Rasmutte

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Sure!  That's a good combo to try.


 

 Thanks! I hope and think they're a good match (At least I hope so, since the ED8 and the Concerto was a good match? I think that I saw you wrote that some time ago).


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## Doombreed

The new amps are looking good on paper!
   
  It looks like I have a good excuse to make the shortish train ride to the showroom early next year and try everything out for myself


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## 12345142

It's been a while...anything new?


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## Argo Duck

Not long now though I should think.


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## Anathallo

Skylab actually mentioned he has one in his LCD-3 review.  Said he would be reviewing the new amp in the near future.


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## Skylab

Yup, I have a loaner of the Corda Classic for review.  It will be a few weeks at least, though, because it is not next up in the review cue.


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## RazorJack

I'm looking forward to your review! If you still have the CONCERTO it would be interesting to compare the two amps.


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## Skylab

Unfortunately I do not still have a Concerto.


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## rasmushorn

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Unfortunately I do not still have a Concerto.


 


  That was a shame 
  I was hoping to find an excuse to (or not to) justify a upgrade from the Concerto in a direct comparison to the Concerto.


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## Rasmutte

Something to say about it, Skylab?
  (hype!)


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## Skylab

I don't plan to comment much at all until the review is done.  It sounds good, but I haven't really analyzed it yet, just casually listened.


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## Rasmutte

Okay! I see...
   
  Don't forget ED8!


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## NumLock

Looking forward to the review.


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## Swatcsi

So... when do the pre-orders start?


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## incus

Prices and new pictures are online
  €515,- / $715,- outside
  EU €595,- inside EU
  http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/classic.htm


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## Swatcsi

Quote: 





incus said:


> Prices and new pictures are online
> €515,- / $715,- outside
> EU €595,- inside EU
> http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/classic.htm


 


  Does this mean it is ready to be ordered, or is this just the information?


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## incus

Quote: 





swatcsi said:


> Does this mean it is ready to be ordered, or is this just the information?


 

 Just the information, that there is something new on the site.


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## Argo Duck

Thanks incus 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  With 14dB (5 x) in high gain and 15V max (over 10Vrms) I think this will easily power the Audez'e LCD2 with excellent dynamics, as well as 600 ohm dynamic phones like Beyerdynamic T1. I wonder how it will go with the Hifiman Orthodynamics?
   
  With these power/gain figures it looks perfectly tailored for the Stagedac with its 2.2Vrms output.
   
  I also like the finer step-size of .5dB to go with Jan's terrific volume control.


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## cooperpwc

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> I also like the finer step-size of .5dB to go with Jan's terrific volume control.


 

 By my calculation, you can drop the volume to about -34db in low gain mode which will be about 12db louder than the 2Stepdance at minimum volume. I am surprised.


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## Argo Duck

Good point. Finer control but I guess it may not get low enough for sensitive IEMs.
   
  Ah well, guess there had to be compromises somewhere. The finer step-size is great for equalizing SPLs between different DACs for example, but that's not something one does very often.


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## Skylab

The Corda Classic has plenty of power for the LCD-2/3.  Not enought for HE-6, though.


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## Argo Duck

Thanks Rob. Looking forward to your review needless to say (but no pressure, especially in view of the new message in your sig!) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Yes I figure over 2W rms into the LCD2 rev 1, slightly more into the LCD3. I understand the HE-6 is certainly a different animal though.
   
  Back to the LCD2, I'm still at odds with some in that I find the Concerto (~960mW rms into rev 1 I figure) has enough enough and great attack. I've never detected clipping. That said, I'm seriously interested in what the Classic will do with its extra power and whatever else Jan has improved.
   
  Cheers, Andre.


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## Jan Meier

Dear Headfellows,
   
  " By my calculation, you can drop the volume to about -34db in low gain mode "
   
  The 0.5 stepsize is for the upper 2/3 control range of the volume dial. At the lower part of the range stepsize is somewhat larger. The minimum amplification factor is actually somewhat lower than that of the 2STEPDANCE.
   
  "Does this mean it is ready to be ordered, or is this just the information?"
   
  If all goes well the amp will be available in 1..1,5 weeks. Of course it's well possible to order right now. Who pays first gets served first.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  "I'm seriously interested in what the Classic will do with its extra power and whatever else Jan has improved."
   
  The increase in power is very limited. That's really not a big thing. Soundwise the more important differences between the CONCERTO and  the CLASSIC are the use of better electrolytic capacitors (NICHICON Fine Gold instead of NICHICON FW, resulting in a slightly warmer sound with better definition in the low frequencies) and the implementation of a more sophisticated crossfeed filter which has better imaging.
   
  Cheers
   
  Jan


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## cooperpwc

Quote: 





jan meier said:


> ...The minimum amplification factor is actually somewhat lower than that of the 2STEPDANCE.


 

 Jan, thanks for the clarification. So, as hoped, this looks to be a killer amp for IEMs (based in part on my positive experience with the Stepdance), i.e. output impedance less than 0.1 ohms,, active balanced ground, perfect channel matching, plus more current, better capacitors, and (of real interest to me) the sophisticated cross-feed.
   
  Exciting times...


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## Argo Duck

Yes thanks for the clarifications Jan - very interesting.
   
  I take your point about power - I'm sorry I brought this into the discussion actually - between Classic and Concerto. Other qualities are more important!


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## alexdemaet

http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/classic.htm
"Active balanced headphone ground offers most of the advantages of a true balanced headphone setup without the need of balanced connections. It can be used with any conventional dynamic headphone."
   
  "The built-in crossfeed filter is a frequency-extended version of the natural crossfeed found in previous CORDA amplifiers and provides even better imaging." 
   
I Would like to upgrade to the Corda Classic!


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## hausierjohnson

Hello, first time poster. Long time music lover and lurker here for the fine reviews that can be found.
  I have had the Meier Headsix for several years now. Ready for a more substantial rig, and definitely going to grab a classic soon. (Like your style Jan!)
   
  I see on the Meier Audio site that if you purchase the Stagedac and Classic at the same time there is a discounted price. Got me wondering about the sonic possibilities of having two peices running concurrently both having crossfeed abilities etc. Anyone care to comment on this pairing?


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote: 





hausierjohnson said:


> Hello, first time poster. Long time music lover and lurker here for the fine reviews that can be found.
> I have had the Meier Headsix for several years now. Ready for a more substantial rig, and definitely going to grab a classic soon. (Like your style Jan!)
> 
> I see on the Meier Audio site that if you purchase the Stagedac and Classic at the same time there is a discounted price. Got me wondering about the sonic possibilities of having two peices running concurrently both having crossfeed abilities etc. Anyone care to comment on this pairing?


 

 I think that it would be a brilliant pairing - same width and clearly intended to be so paired - but you would only use one crossfeed circuit at a time, either the StageDac or Classic, not both simultaneously..


----------



## hausierjohnson

I'm sure your right on the intended usage. Doubling up on the features will make for some great experimenting no doubt.


----------



## RazorJack

Not quite, I wouldn't say you always need one crossfeed circuit, by definition. On some recordings it's near impossible to tell a difference, and on others the instrument seperation and imaging becomes less accurate. At least, that's my experience with the Concerto and Stagedac paired, using both crossfeeds. By default, however, I only use the Stagedac's crossfeed, but sometimes it's just fun to check what it sounds like with both on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  As Jan told me, always just use whatever settings sounds best to your ears.
   
  I'm wondering what it will be like when tonal balance is set to max on both devices... Sure would be nice for bassheads like me


----------



## hausierjohnson

"I'm wondering what it will be like when tonal balance is set to max on both devices... Sure would be nice for bassheads like me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




"
   
   
  As my main set of headphones is a pair of AKG k702, I'm looking forward to trying out that tonal balance feature too.
   
  Currently using the 702 with a nuforce ido (and they sound fine.)
  And fortunately I can use the ido's coax s/pdif out to route the lossless ipod library through the two meier peices.


----------



## incus

NICE 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  STAGEDAC and CLASSIC have the same sizes: 28.0 x 17.7 x 6.7 cm
 Perfect to put one on top of the other. CLASIC on top to prevent heat accumulation?
 On-Off switches don´t match. (opposite positions)


----------



## Swatcsi

Can't wait, I'm really looking forward to this


----------



## Skylab

For those that might be interested:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/products/meier-audio-corda-classic/reviews/5960


----------



## cooperpwc

Rob, thank you for the excellent thoughtful review.


----------



## sampson_smith

Yes, thanks very much!


----------



## Argo Duck

A nicely balanced review, thanks Rob. Much to think about.
   
  Two points of difference to my ears between e.g. Lyr and Concerto are: 1. deep black background in the Concerto; 2. Sharper or faster attack in the Concerto (note: may be tube-dependent to be fair to Lyr).
   
  Are these points you noticed with the Concerto Rob? If so, would you say they feature in the Classic?
   
  TIA, Andre


----------



## Skylab

Yes, I would say the classic has a blacker background than the Lyr.  attack, not sure.


----------



## RazorJack

Thanks Skylab, good review! Great to see that the Classic is selling for the same price as the Concerto did.
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yes, I would say the classic has a blacker background than the Lyr.


 

 Nice to know, but the way I see it, the sound either has a totally black background (as far as the human ear can resolve), or not at all. There is no in between, regardless of how faint the hum/hiss/noise may be. If the difference is audible, one amp is not "blacker" or less black than the other, it's simply not dead silent at all (and the deal-breaker for stubborn people like me). And I love how Meier's amps can be used as a reference for testing silence


----------



## Skylab

Ok so would you prefer "closer to black"? As that's what I mean.  There is no totally silent amp. It's just how close to that you get.


----------



## Kernmac

Quote: 





razorjack said:


> Thanks Skylab, good review! Great to see that the Classic is selling for the same price as the Concerto did.
> 
> 
> Nice to know, but the way I see it, the sound either has a totally black background (as far as the human ear can resolve), or not at all. There is no in between, regardless of how faint the hum/hiss/noise may be. If the difference is audible, one amp is not "blacker" or less black than the other, it's simply not dead silent at all (and the deal-breaker for stubborn people like me). And I love how Meier's amps can be used as a reference for testing silence


 

 I agree.  My Cantate2 is as black as the Ace of spades- dead silent.  If it makes a noise, then that noise is simply not audible, even with low impedance headphones.  For me, an amp has to be dead silent.  Why would one pursue "better" presentation for their desired music for it to be impeded by any additional hum, hiss, background noise of any description.  It is a deal breaker for me as well.  However I am willing to bet that the Classic has no "audible" noise whatsoever, and that for me is dead silent.


----------



## Argo Duck

Thanks Rob for the reply. I think I may just have to try this new amp for myself!
   
  Off topic, @RazorJack I will put up some brief (Meier, Schiit) x T1 comments in the next 2-4 days.


----------



## RazorJack

^ Sweet! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
   


kernmac said:


> For me, an amp has to be dead silent.  Why would one pursue "better" presentation for their desired music for it to be impeded by any additional hum, hiss, background noise of any description.  It is a deal breaker for me as well.


 
   
  Exactly. And yet, it turns out, as far as my understanding goes from posts on head-fi, that so many highly regarded tube amps are not silent at all.
   
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Ok so would you prefer "closer to black"? As that's what I mean.  There is no totally silent amp. It's just how close to that you get.


 

  
  In absolute terms no, but as far as undamaged human ears can hear, there is, and that's what matters to me.
   
  Sorry I keep bringing this "blackground" discussion up in so many threads, it's just the one aspect I find most important when choosing/buying my gear.


----------



## perfect-pitch

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Thanks Rob for the reply. I think I may just have to try this new amp for myself!
> 
> Off topic, @RazorJack I will put up some brief (Meier, Schiit) x T1 comments in the next 2-4 days.


 


   
  I do own the Concerto and the Lyr as well.  Both are great amps. Sure, the Concerto has a nearly black background while the Lyr do have some ground noise even with low impedance phones. But the Lyr is an amazing amp and you don't hear any kind of noise while listening to the music.
  Both amps are a great match for the LCD2 / LCD3
   
  Cheers!
   
  perfect-pitch


----------



## todd95008

Per the Meier Classic web page, the gain in the low setting is -2dB not 4dB reported in the review.
  I hope the -2dB is the correct number since I want to upgrade from an old Meier amp and don't need/want even 4dB of gain.
   
  Anyone know if these are actually shipping yet ??
   
  Todd


----------



## Swatcsi

Quote: 





todd95008 said:


> Per the Meier Classic web page, the gain in the low setting is -2dB not 4dB reported in the review.
> I hope the -2dB is the correct number since I want to upgrade from an old Meier amp and don't need/want even 4dB of gain.
> 
> Anyone know if these are actually shipping yet ??
> ...


 

 My order is shipping Monday! Can't wait!


----------



## The Slow Down

Quote: 





todd95008 said:


> Per the Meier Classic web page, the gain in the low setting is -2dB not 4dB reported in the review.
> I hope the -2dB is the correct number since I want to upgrade from an old Meier amp and don't need/want even 4dB of gain.
> 
> Anyone know if these are actually shipping yet ??
> ...


 

  
  You may be able to ask Dr. Meier to integrate a voltage divider into one of your inputs on the Corda Classic... Or you could wire it yourself - even directly into an interconnect. As long as you use a network with high quality resistors it should be a simple signal reduction without coloration. The voltage divider is a simple linear circuit. Note however that this would certainly void your "try & return" guarantee. Personally, I have had such a great experience trying the Corda Jazz that this is of no concern for me - especially after seeing Skylab's review of the Classic.


----------



## Okkultus

The CLASSIC arrived a few days ago, and now it is paired with the STAGEDAC and the Beyerdynamic T1. I have to say that it is a wonderful experience listening to music with this combination. I don't really have anything else of this caliber to compare with, but I trust my ears!
  Highly recommended!


----------



## rasmushorn

Has anybody done any A/B comparisons between the Concerto and the Classic?


----------



## The Slow Down

Quote: 





rasmushorn said:


> Has anybody done any A/B comparisons between the Concerto and the Classic?


 
   
  Almost. All month (December and until yesterday) I listened to the Jazz. Today I got home from holidays and had a Corda Classic waiting for me in the mail.
   
  I will write a review once I get more time on the Classic but initial impressions are... WOW. On vacation I listened exclusively with a Corda Jazz. I actually took my headphones, CD Player, and Brickwall surge protector with me on vacation so I can say the only change in my system is the Classic versus the Jazz.
   
  Immediately wider sound stage than the Jazz, and an even more natural realistic sound, while being more detailed as well. It's unreal, & I don't say that easily or lightly. I attribute this to more power available at all levels versus the Jazz while retaining the neutral sophisticated volume pot and an extended crossfeed which goes from DC to 2000Hz versus the Jazz from DC to 800Hz.
   
  The guy running from left to right, right to left in the gold CD of Pink Floyd Dark Side of the moon is downright scary with the Classic, for example. Crisp and detailed with the Jazz but more 'real' with the Classic while allowing me to practically feel the tread on the bottom of the phantom shoes.
   
  This is however with low impedance fairly efficient PRO 2900 headphones. With high impedance headphones there will not be anywhere near as much power delivery, but I can say firmly that for low impedance headphones I don't think one can ask for more unless you have really low efficiency (like low 80's db) low impedance headphones. For that there is one perhaps competitive offering which is the Schiit Lyr. However, the Lyr lacks many of the advanced features and that the Corda Classic offers so it would be a trade-off of sorts. For efficient high-impedance headphones the Classic should also be very good. With relatively inefficient (HE-6 I'm looking at you) power hogs look elsewhere.
   
  It's not all milk and honey however. The physical casing is not as solid as the Jazz, and there is a vibration and slight hum inherent from the top/side panel of the case. A very light weight placed on top of the panel on either side of the vents kills the vibration. I say kills the vibration, but with other things such as in the car audio world I'm probably not killing the vibration but just dampening it to a point I can't physically hear it. But who knows.
   
*Edit*: Problem above 99% solved. Dr. Meier gave me a tip & after implementation, there is no longer a problem. Will right more in my review. Didn't cost me anything but materials I already had on hand = a piece of left-over Lowes truck bed liner mat and some 3M super trim glue.
   
  Also, while the Jazz volume pot offers double the steps of the Jazz, along with it comes a very distinct electromechanical clicking noise when the pot is turned as well as the electronic clicking noise from the Jazz volume pot. It doesn't effect anything but it is noticeable when changing volume. Overall, I love the added electronic steps of the Classic though, and would not trade it for anything else - especially those !*(#^@ stepped attenuators.
   
  More to come in a few weeks. For now my Classic is going to get some good burn-in time with a modified Bink test CD (normalized tracks - very important).


----------



## Gabrielisc

Anyone try the classic + stagedac combo on the HD800s, wondering if they pair well, everyones talking about LCDs for some reason


----------



## The Slow Down

Quote: 





gabrielisc said:


> Anyone try the classic + stagedac combo on the HD800s, wondering if they pair well, everyones talking about LCDs for some reason


 

 LCDs, and other low impedance headphones are what the Classic can drive best simply because it puts out more Power at lower Z. Double the Z, half the power with this amp. Double Z again and half the power again. It is a stable relationship throughout the range.


----------



## Argo Duck

TSD, thanks for these early impressions of Classic vs Jazz. Looking forward to your further insights in a few weeks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Must say I am very curious how a Classic/Concerto comparison would come out!


----------



## vessa

how it mates with a stock DX1000
   
  any experience here?


----------



## Raksasa

Subscribed


----------



## rasmushorn

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Must say I am very curious how a Classic/Concerto comparison would come out!


 

  
  Me too. Of course I am considering if it is worth an upgrade from the Concerto that I love so much.


----------



## Argo Duck

My problem exactly. The only way to satisfy my curiosity may be to buy one and compare...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Two days ago I received after 4 months my Decware Taboo (all-tube) amp. An amazing amp, already sounding very good fed from Jan's Stagedac.
   
  A clear difference - at this stage anyway - is that Taboo has much "softer" attack than Concerto. I am not certain this is a speed difference. It may come from odd versus even (SS versus tube) harmonics in the mix.
  Quote: 





rasmushorn said:


> Me too. Of course I am considering if it is worth an upgrade from the Concerto that I love so much.


----------



## Breikku

What about Classic and Hifiman HE-500 combo?
   
  Can anyone compare Violectric V100 and Burson HE-160 with Classic?
   
  I have Corda Swing to drive my HE-500 and Alessandro MS-2 and
  now i´m looking for upgrade.


----------



## Argo Duck

This may not be useful as I've never heard HE500 or Burson 160 nor yet the Classic.
   
  So FWIW LCD2 with _Concerto_ versus Violectric V100...the V100 showed a liquid-seeming midrange with some slight warmth, whereas the Concerto seems very neutral there. Bass on Concerto was deep, well-defined, tight, whereas it seemed loose with the 100. Treble on Concerto was more extended than V100.
   
  Overall, I find the Concerto more balanced and neutral.


----------



## andybo

Der Classic hamoniert auch gut mit dem LCD 3.  LCD 3 spezifisch ist der Klang  natürlich höher einzustufen als mit dem HD800 da viel stimmiger und musikalischer. Von den tiefen Bässen bis zu den oberen Höhen kommt alles klar definiert und lebendig und gut ausbalanciert.  Der Classic scheint also genug Power zu haben für den LCD 3. Ich finde den Classic einen sehr guten Amp der selbst meinen hohen Ansprüchen gerecht wird. Sowohl mit dem HD800 als auch mit dem LCD 3 harmoniert er gut. Wer einen LCD 3 hat sollte aber beachten, dass man zuerst lange lange einspielen sollte. Zudem kostet der Classic eigentlich nicht viel und ich finde ich geniesse gutes Audio für realtiv wenig Geld. Natürlich würde man mit einem 3000 Dollar Cavalli Liquid Fire noch mehr rausholen mit einem LCD 3. Wer aber einen bezahlbaren qualitativ hochwertigen Headamp sucht sollte mal den Classic anhören. Ich befürchtete dass er Problem haben könnte mit dem LCD 3 ( Magnetostaten.. ).  Dem ist nicht so. Selbst die Höhen kommen klar definiert und nicht agressiv rüber.  Auch mit dem Classic ist der LCD 3 somit eine klare deutliche Steigerung gegenüber dem schon sehr gutem HD800. Die Vorzüge des LCD 3 kommen mit dem Classic gut rüber und es ist eine wirkliche Freude damit auch für Kopfhörer anspruchsvolle Klassik zu geniessen. Und ich kann auch über lange Zeit mit dieser Kombi hören. Da der LCD 3 von  Hause aus etwas wärmer klingt als der HD800 und vor allem weniger scharf harmoniert er also auch gut mit Transistoren Amps. Und das eher noch auf der sehr neutralen Seite. Meinem Klangideal komme ich somit immer näher. Der LCD 3 macht auch mit dem Classic einen schmaleren Soundstage als der HD800.  Aber trotzdem füht der LCD 3 zu mehr Emotionen und man spürt den Aufnahmeraum was dann auch gross wirken kann. Leider finde ich den LCD 3 alles andere als bequem.
   
  Somit kann ich den Classic auch für LCD Kopfhörer empfehlen. Man redet ja immer vom HD800 da der ja auch wie Meier aus Deutschland..  Ein Qualitätsmerkmal ist aber bei einem Amp, dass er diverse Arten von Kopfhörern gut antreiben kann. Und ich bin überrascht wie der LCD 3 sich ausser dem schamalren Soundstage realtiv deutlich von einem HD800 abheben kann selbst bei einem Mittelpreis Amp wie der Meier Classic.


----------



## cooperpwc

Andy, Willkommen bei Head-Fi. Traurig über Ihre Brieftasche.
   
  And if that makes no sense, blame Google.


----------



## Argo Duck

Vielen danke @andybo. Das war gut zu lesen (aber mein Deutsch is nich so gut!)


----------



## The Slow Down

Translation below (I'm from Germany too). Many things in German are implied, and not explicitly spelled out so you will see some parentheses. Also, this is as much a review of the LCD3 as of the Classic. There are two schools of translation: the absolute correct which is directly related to the original, and the "make it make sense by changing some of the meaning, or adding the local cultural references." I take a middle road below. It is always true no matter what, that there is a lot lost in translation because culture defines language, and language defines culture. It's not just different words, it's different thoughts, different philosophies, different patterns. There are some universal concepts, but it takes a lot more than just knowing a language grammatically to understand it and communicate in the proper contexts.
   
  "
  The Classic works in harmony with the LCD3 (headphones). I classify the LCD3 in a rank higher than the HD800 and at the same time it is more lively [sorry no direct translation] & musical. From deep bass to the highs, everything (sound) is clearly defined, lively, and well balanced. The Classic seems to have enough Power for the LCD3. I find the Classic is a very good amp that met my high expectations. It works in harmony with both the HD800 and LCD3. Whoever has an LCD3 however should note that you have to let it burn in for a very very long time. Anyway, the Classic doesn't actually cost that much, and I find I enjoy good audio (sound) for relatively little money.
   
  Of course with a $3,000 Cavalli Liquid Fire you can get more out of the LCD3. But whoever is looking for a "reasonable priced" high quality headamp should listen to a Classic. I was worried that he (Classic) would have problems with the LCD3 (Planarmagenetic...). This is not so. The highs come across clearly defined, and not too aggressive. With the Classic the LCD3 is more clearly defined than the already very good HD800 [in English I think people would say another veil has been lifted from the sound].
  
  The plus points of the LCD3 are made apparent with the Classic (amp), and it's really a joy to listen to engaging classic (music) with the headphones. And I can listen for a long time with this combination [speaking to the non-fatiguing nature]. Because out of the box the LCD3 sounds a bit warmer than the HD800 and also is a good match to tube amps [but not as good as solid state]. And that [warmness] is still close to neutral. With this [combination] I'm getting closer to my ideal sound.
   
  The LCD3 in combination with the Classic has a smaller soundstage than with the HD800. Nevertheless, the LCD3 invokes a greater emotional response and you can sense the recording environment which can sound big. Unfortunately, I don't find the LCD3 comfortable (to wear).
   
  I can recommend the Classic (to be used) for the LCD headphones. Everyone always talks about the HD800, just like Meier [Meier Audio] from Germany. A sign of quality is that my Amp (Classic) it can drive a diverse range of headphones. And I'm surprised how the LCD3 with a smaller sound stage relative to the HD800 can shine with a middle-of the-road price point amp such as the Meier Classic.
  "
    
  Quote:


andybo said:


> Der Classic hamoniert auch gut mit dem LCD 3.  LCD 3 spezifisch ist der Klang  natürlich höher einzustufen als mit dem HD800 da viel stimmiger und musikalischer. Von den tiefen Bässen bis zu den oberen Höhen kommt alles klar definiert und lebendig und gut ausbalanciert.  Der Classic scheint also genug Power zu haben für den LCD 3. Ich finde den Classic einen sehr guten Amp der selbst meinen hohen Ansprüchen gerecht wird. Sowohl mit dem HD800 als auch mit dem LCD 3 harmoniert er gut. Wer einen LCD 3 hat sollte aber beachten, dass man zuerst lange lange einspielen sollte. Zudem kostet der Classic eigentlich nicht viel und ich finde ich geniesse gutes Audio für realtiv wenig Geld. Natürlich würde man mit einem 3000 Dollar Cavalli Liquid Fire noch mehr rausholen mit einem LCD 3. Wer aber einen bezahlbaren qualitativ hochwertigen Headamp sucht sollte mal den Classic anhören. Ich befürchtete dass er Problem haben könnte mit dem LCD 3 ( Magnetostaten.. ).  Dem ist nicht so. Selbst die Höhen kommen klar definiert und nicht agressiv rüber.  Auch mit dem Classic ist der LCD 3 somit eine klare deutliche Steigerung gegenüber dem schon sehr gutem HD800. Die Vorzüge des LCD 3 kommen mit dem Classic gut rüber und es ist eine wirkliche Freude damit auch für Kopfhörer anspruchsvolle Klassik zu geniessen. Und ich kann auch über lange Zeit mit dieser Kombi hören. Da der LCD 3 von  Hause aus etwas wärmer klingt als der HD800 und vor allem weniger scharf harmoniert er also auch gut mit Transistoren Amps. Und das eher noch auf der sehr neutralen Seite. Meinem Klangideal komme ich somit immer näher. Der LCD 3 macht auch mit dem Classic einen schmaleren Soundstage als der HD800.  Aber trotzdem füht der LCD 3 zu mehr Emotionen und man spürt den Aufnahmeraum was dann auch gross wirken kann. Leider finde ich den LCD 3 alles andere als bequem.
> 
> Somit kann ich den Classic auch für LCD Kopfhörer empfehlen. Man redet ja immer vom HD800 da der ja auch wie Meier aus Deutschland..  Ein Qualitätsmerkmal ist aber bei einem Amp, dass er diverse Arten von Kopfhörern gut antreiben kann. Und ich bin überrascht wie der LCD 3 sich ausser dem schamalren Soundstage realtiv deutlich von einem HD800 abheben kann selbst bei einem Mittelpreis Amp wie der Meier Classic.


----------



## The Slow Down

"Welcome to Head-Fi. I'm sad about/over your wallet."
   
  Makes enough sense to be understood I think. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





cooperpwc said:


> Andy, Willkommen bei Head-Fi. Traurig über Ihre Brieftasche.
> 
> And if that makes no sense, blame Google.


----------



## cooperpwc

I'm not really sad. Just extending my sympathy.


----------



## Raksasa

Quote: 





breikku said:


> _What about Classic and Hifiman HE-500 combo?_


 


  +1 on that.
   
  R


----------



## adrianpkms

Quote: 





the slow down said:


> Translation below (I'm from Germany too). Many things in German are implied, and not explicitly spelled out so you will see some parentheses. Also, this is as much a review of the LCD3 as of the Classic. There are two schools of translation: the absolute correct which is directly related to the original, and the "make it make sense by changing some of the meaning, or adding the local cultural references." I take a middle road below. It is always true no matter what, that there is a lot lost in translation because culture defines language, and language defines culture. It's not just different words, it's different thoughts, different philosophies, different patterns. There are some universal concepts, but it takes a lot more than just knowing a language grammatically to understand it and communicate in the proper contexts.
> 
> "
> The Classic works in harmony with the LCD3 (headphones). I classify the LCD3 in a rank higher than the HD800 and at the same time it is more lively [sorry no direct translation] & musical. From deep bass to the highs, everything (sound) is clearly defined, lively, and well balanced. The Classic seems to have enough Power for the LCD3. I find the Classic is a very good amp that met my high expectations. It works in harmony with both the HD800 and LCD3. Whoever has an LCD3 however should note that you have to let it burn in for a very very long time. Anyway, the Classic doesn't actually cost that much, and I find I enjoy good audio (sound) for relatively little money.
> ...


 

 Thank you for your translation. I have tried google and it doesnt work very well.


----------



## Raksasa

Quote: 





adrianpkms said:


> _Thank you for your translation. I have tried google and it doesnt work very well._


 

 More thanks from me to The Slow Down for the effort you put into translation.
   
  I also found the Google effort incomprehensible.
   
  Thanks,
   
  R


----------



## PedroH

I have the StageDac and the Concerto. I could eventually upgrade to the Classic. Another option is the Violectric V200 as I don't need the crossfeed on the amp (given that I have it on the DAC).
   
  Which one would you take, not considering money :
  A - Nothing. The Concerto is as good as any of the other two.
  B - The Classic. Why?
  C - The Violectric V200. Why?
  D - None of the above. What, then?
   
  I use this combo with a range of headphones from Grado RS1i to Beyer T1.
   
  Thanks, Pedro


----------



## Naim.F.C

I have no experience with the Classic. But based on your two headphone choices, I know the V200 would suit them very well. The V200 is a very smooth, sub bass and upper mid extended, subtly musical sound. The two cans mentioned lean on the bright side and less on bass, so the V200 would be highly complimentary. It certainly is with my T1's anyway.
   
  Not sure what kind of sound sig the Classic carried.
  
  Quote: 





pedroh said:


> I have the StageDac and the Concerto. I could eventually upgrade to the Classic. Another option is the Violectric V200 as I don't need the crossfeed on the amp (given that I have it on the DAC).
> 
> Which one would you take, not considering money :
> A - Nothing. The Concerto is as good as any of the other two.
> ...


----------



## rasmushorn

Quote: 





pedroh said:


> I have the StageDac and the Concerto. I could eventually upgrade to the Classic. Another option is the Violectric V200 as I don't need the crossfeed on the amp (given that I have it on the DAC).
> 
> Which one would you take, not considering money :
> A - Nothing. The Concerto is as good as any of the other two.
> ...


 

 I have brout my Concerto to many meets through the years and I still havn't found a better amp for the T1. But for Grados there are better alternatives I think. I also hope someone will make a direct comparison between the Concerto and the Classic soon which can tell me if it is worth an upgrade.


----------



## Zweistein

After one and a half year of Concerto, I upgraded to the Classic. and I'm not complaining. This is (only) my third headphone amplifier (the first being a Musical Fidelity X-Can v2), so don't expect a professional opinion. Jan warned me the differences in sound were subtle, but the additional functionailty was enough of a motivation for me.
   
  The first listening, no crossfeed, for starters. I expected disappointment, because it elt like that the first time on the Concerto, and because it's in my nature, and because you people keep writing about amps having to burn in. But I liked it. I've been switching back and forth to the Concerto, and since that is not quite a swift switch and the difference is subtle, I have a hard time telling if it's in my ears or between them. It sounds a little more natural to me, a little more like it's meant to be.
   
  But where there is no shred of doubt about the upgrade is the crossfeed. The Concerto crossfeed sacrifices the wideness of the soundstage. The Classic almost doesn't. Toggling between the straight and low crossfeed setting, it's very hard to hear the difference on normal recordings. With the high setting, it is pretty clear but still it doesn't sound like a sacrifice. There is an additional 3-fold crossfeed switch under the cover (which is secured by 7 screws in 2 sizes). It allows you to increase or decrease crossfeed from the default configuration. If increased, and with the external switch on the high position, there's a definite loss of detail, especially for the base instrument. The base compensation switch doesn't really help against that. But when you listen to extreme stereo, it's probably nice to have. Or at least nice to try. On the other side of the spectrum, with internally decreased crossfeed and toggling the external switch between no and low crossfeed, it's very hard indeed to hear the difference. With an extreme stereo signal, the annoyance is definitely broken, but you want more. So I think the internal switch is mainly good to let you realize that the default configuration is well chosen.
   
  However that doesn't mean I will leave the crossfeed switch on at all times. There is one recording that stood out for me with respect to crossfeed earlier: I Hear You Breathing In on Yola by Eleanor McEvoy. The Concerto crossfeed squeezes the piano and voice recording almost like a mono switch, if you don't mind my sense of exaggeration. It's not so bad on the Classic but unless it's on the lowest of the lowest setting, I'll still turn off crossfeed. Of course, that's why the external switch is there in the first place.
   
  The device itself is an improvement too. No more light humming while turned on - it's dead silent. The blue LEDs seem less bright, and there are fewer of them. In particular the one ticking on and off as you adjust the volume I am happy to say is gone. On the Concerto I always adjusted volume so that this LED was off, which is not a problem with regards to finetuning volume because 64 levels of volume with an additional gain switch is just ridiculously precise, but now I realize it was annoying to have to do so. The clicking of the relays seems less too. The Classic volume knob operates just like an analog control. Also, the maximum volume is considerably higher. With the T1 the Concerto had plenty of gain for my taste, and with the DT880 it has just enough, but with the DT880 I did max it out on some careful recordings. The T1 on the Classic does not need the high gain switch, at least with a serious source. Even with the extra gain applied and the volume at maximum, no input signal means no output, no hiss, no hum.


----------



## Argo Duck

@Zweistein thank you for the very useful review.
   
  You write "It sounds a little more natural to me, a little more like it's meant to be.". Is there any more you can say about this. What kinds of music do you most easily notice (or think you notice) differences? For example, does there seem to be a consistent _type_ of music where you notice this? Simple versus complex? Specific genres of music (classical, jazz, electric guitar  etc)? More in the bass? Mids? Highs? What about voice?
   
  "In particular the [LED] ticking on and off as you adjust the volume I am happy to say is gone" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Funnily, for me this is not so good. This LED is very helpful for me when (for example) comparing different DACs. I could use it to equalize SPL levels without having to re-measure every time!
   
  Thank you again for some nice impressions - sorry for asking more questions!
   
  André


----------



## rasmushorn

Thanks for the impressions on the differences between the Concerto and the Classic. For me this means that I am not in a hurry to change my Concerto to any other amp.


----------



## Argo Duck

For anyone interested, a few days ago I ordered a Classic from Jan. I expect to receive it in about two weeks. I look forward to comparing with my Concerto and other amps.
   
  There will be a report.


----------



## PedroH

AiDee... looking forward to read your report.


----------



## RazorJack

Nice! 
  I wonder what it sounds like when you use the maximum setting of tonal balance on both devices (stagedac + classic).


----------



## Zweistein

@AiDee
  I haven't come around to analyzing this. It's a really subtle difference I think I noticed, in the mids I guess, definitely not the bass. It may be like the difference between two Concertos, or it may not exist at all. Likewise sometimes I think I can blindly and clearly distinguish SACD from the CD layer, and at other times I just don't seem to hear the difference.
   
  I can add one pointless imperfection on the Classic: crosstalk between the inputs. If the input you listen to is silent and you feed a normal music signal on the other input, turn on the gain boost and crank up the volume all the way, you can hear the other input, barely. Of course at that volume, a genuine signal arriving on the selected input would pop your ears.


----------



## Argo Duck

@Zweistein - thanks! It'll be interesting to compare my observations.
   
  Because of some of the tools I use in my work life - e.g. development of psychometric scales to standards of adequate reliability and validity - a natural approach for me is to identify "items" (music tracks in this case) which distinguish between different levels (high, low, neutral, can't tell or whatever) of what one is trying to measure. (The "right tracks" might vary with the equipment, something potentially interesting in itself). After that, I get down to serious listening.
   
  Not to say this is the _right_ approach of course 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Especially when the whole point of this gear is to enjoy our music!
   
  That's why I was interested whether you noticed a genre-dependence. Anyway, your T1 is certainly resolving enough to expose differnences. I will use mine too. At the bass end, it will be interesting to see if the LCD2 has anything additional to tell us!


----------



## orri

Anyone else who has bought the Classic and would like to share their thoughts on it?


----------



## tropicana

I have the Classic and HD800 for about a month now.
  My impression:
   
*A little background:*
  I recently decided to move from a speaker to headphone setup because I do not have the luxury of listening to my speakers at the desired volume any more (newborn).
  My speaker setup was the popular Naim + Harbeth setup which most would agree that they have great synergy producing a natural and pacey sound.
  I listen to 90% jazz and 10% classical.  Most of my collection is in vinyl and the rest in CD.
  For details of my front end setup, please refer to my profile.
   
*Choosing a headphone:*
  I auditioned the LCD2, T1 and HD800. 
  Coming from a speaker setup, I was immediately drawn in by the soundstage of the HD800, simply amazing.
  And the detail is just simply unheard off on a speaker setup, felt like I have missed out so much all this while.
  It was a simple decision, already a big step up for me.
   
*Choosing an amp:*
  I needed an amp with two analog input (CDP and TT).  This requirement really reduces the number of choices out there.
  I narrowed it down and was considering between the WA6SE and Classic, roughly the $1,000 region.  
  Both are not available for audition where I come from.  So, had to rely on reviews and take a leap of faith.
  Finally, decided to go with the Classic because of crossfeed function and also, with vinyl, the tonal balance could come in handy as a bass boost though from my understanding, it is not intended for that use.
   
*Buying:*
  Dealing with Jan was extremely pleasant, my order (Classic + HD800) was shipped within a couple of hours from payment.
  E-mails are replied within minutes. Jan is patient and detailed in his responses even when my enquiries were purely exploratory in the beginning.
   
*Down to the sound:*
  Unfortunately, I have very little experience with headphone amp and since this is my first setup, I do not have any point of reference other than my brief audition with the Lyr.  My impression is that this amp is transparent and it does not add any color to the sound compared to the Lyr.  Unlike the naim amps which tend to accentuate the bass, there is none here, pretty balanced throughout.  
   
*Crossfeed:*
  At first this crossfeed feature was really driving me nuts.  On/Off/Intensity?  But after listening to Round Midnight by Miles Davis on vinyl, Japan press... I almost went deaf without crossfeed. It was as if Miles was aiming his muted trumpet straight into my ears, one on each side!!!  I actually felt pain in my ears for the next two days listening to the first track once at moderate volume (9 o'clock).  Crossfeed added perceived distance, as if listening to speakers, and it sounds like how it was supposed to with Miles playing in front of me at a distance. There on, no argument, crossfeed is a MUST for me as it sounds more correct/ natural.  My observation was subsequently cemented by more subtle occasions where double bass sounds more coherent.
  However, I was quite dissatisfied with the intensity, even at the low setting, soundstage was greatly narrowed.  Having said that you get greater depth and better centre focus, not my liking though.  Fortunately, there's more option with the Classic.  Opened up the amp, there are four settings, 1 to 4, the amp's default setting is 2 and 3.  I lowered it down to 1 and 2.  At 1, it was just about right, I get the width almost similar to when crossfeed is off, though centre of the soundstage is a little less dense than ideal.
  For HD800 users, I would also like to mention that crossfeed helps significantly with fatigue.  You do lose some detail, which initially I was reluctant to give up, but it just sound so much more correct.
   
*Tonal balance:*
  I didn't pay much attention to this feature at first.  Turning it on at the lower level, you lose some sense of airiness which again was exciting for me since I just gotten the HD800.  So I left it off most of the time. But after several long sessions, my ears got tired quicker from the hot treble, it is not aggressive nor sibilant but just very pronounced which is tiresome to listen to over long period.  Eventually, I had to turn down the volume to go on after an hour, 8 o'clock max.  At that level, the HD800 sounds thin and not involving.  That was when I decided to try out the tonal balance feature.  At the lower level, the issue on the treble is gone.  At the same time, you get better bass (upper, mid and lower).  Also, I was able turn to volume up such that the HD800 sounds fuller and listen at that level for hours.  In fact, this tone reminds me of my naim + Harbeth setup very much, couldn't be happier .
   
   
   
  Have not regretted since I moved to a headphone setup, definitely an upgrade at a lower price.
  However, this is not possible without the Classic and the features on it.  Not sure if there's another amp like it, though I have my eyes on the Phonitor as my next upgrade.
  But for now, those considering, this amp is definitely worth getting for its features.  Absolutely Brilliant!
   
  *For HD800 users, very mixed opinions here, but if you feel like you could use a little more bass and smoother treble, I would say that the Classic would create great synergy with your HD800 when used with the crossfeed and tonal balance.
   
  PS: Lastly, I am new to this forum but I can tell that there are people going all out raving about certain headphone or amp which is really really not helping readers who are seeking objective feedback.
  Please keep it real and above all, enjoy the music... Peace...


----------



## Argo Duck

^ some fine notes there tropicana.
   
  I mentioned two months ago I had ordered Classic to compare with my Concerto, and that there would be a report. Unfortunately, this coincided with a continuous period of 7 day working weeks, likely to take up most of the year. Opportunities to compare have been limited.
   
  The following is offered as a 'micro-review'.
   
  Having used some of the test tracks from a DACs comparison I presented on head fi last year, I hear distinct differences. These are most apparent with moderately busy and complex - i.e. 'normal' - to very busy music. One track, a spare, simple grunge rock-pop ballad (deadpan female vocal, low-tuned bass guitar, drums predominantly) shows only subtle differences.
   
  Other tracks I've tried so far range from Thomas Diethelm's busy, fairly multi-instrumental but mostly guitar-based brand of Euro-jazz; some Bach solo cello; some Beethoven solo piano; two tracks from Johnny Cash' _American IV: The Man Comes Around_; some Stacey Kent jazz vocal.
   
  Degrees of difference vary across material. These are overall, preliminary and tentative observations:

 Classic has slower decay than Concerto, allowing low to mid midrange instruments to "ring on" longer
 A distinctly different tonal balance results. Classic is more mid-centric
 Although both amps present the same quantity and quality of bass to my ears, this tonal balance difference makes the Concerto seem - logically enough - more bass-centric
 A second result; harmonic information is more apparent with Classic - an important difference with many instruments (e.g. Cello, piano, voice)
 Classic's sound-stage is 'holographic' with some material. This difference can be striking, with very full rendering of the sound-stage side-to-side
 I suspect this is at least partly influenced by the different tonal balances. For example, Cash's track 'Give my love to Rose' was dominated on one side with Concerto, very full and balanced left-to-right with Classic. This may be because there's distinctly more _bass_ information to one side
 Retrieval of low level (softer) sounds - already good in the Concerto - is just as good or better with Classic
 Highs sound a touch less 'bright' with Classic - not that Concerto has ever seemed strident or tizzy. This may be a side-effect of Classic's apparently fuller midrange
   
  Outstanding qualities of the Concerto to me are quickness, clarity and transparency. Its speed may be partly a product of a slight mid-range dryness - i.e. fast decay and hence harmonics persist less. Terrific 'inter-note silence' results. In this respect, Classic could be described as a touch more "natural" with many instruments, with more 'flow' and 'connection' between notes.
   
  When and if there is time to attempt a proper mini-review or review I will do so, probably by editing this post. That may be some six weeks or more away.
   
  FWIW, Classic is a "significant upgrade" to my ears with very noticeable differences; differences I like.
   
*However, this statement needs qualification*. These impressions are based on limited material. How significant is significant? It probably depends on which material shows differences, and how much of this material is in _your_ typical listening session?
   
  If I do get time to expand this, I hope to offer some rough assessment of how much and what type of (my) material shows improvements that favor one or other amp.
   
  A review which finds "huge differences between A and B!!" but in which these differences - had the reviewer bothered to think about the balance of material overall - can only be heard with say 1% of tracks is probably overstating things just a little! I hope to offer something a little more useful 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  (Note: I only occasionally log in to head fi these days).
 _Fine print._ The amps were calibrated to the same level (80dBA) using pink noise. Because of the chosen steps, I couldn't achieve this with the Classic in high gain mode. In low gain though I got a much closer match than I expected - 'exact' within the tolerance of my SPL meter - let's say about one dB.
   
DAC used was the Stagedac, no crossfeed, pulse 2 o/s 3, no bass contouring. Phones LCD2 r1. Source Mac Mini optical feed, both iTunes and Fidelia used at different times. Tracks all iTunes-plus or above (WAV, ALAC) and some casual listening to FLAC material.
   
   
Both amps were run 'straight' - no crossfeed or bass contouring. (Except, I listened briefly with the switches in different positions to check everything was wired properly! It was).


----------



## Chris J

Very nice review, Mr. A!
  Sigh, no more Head Fi posts from one of the more rational folks on Head Fi!


----------



## danik97

Have ordered a Classic. Exciting for waiting to listen with LCD-2


----------



## danik97

I have a qauestion. I see that CLASSIC have a two pairs of RCA inputs.
That's mean that it can be sourced from two DACs? And how to switch between them from amp, which input is main in present time? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  ...Ok, it's confirmed. Switching by left switch on the front panel.
   
  That's great.


----------



## danik97

Received today an HD800 (thank's to Jan for discount). 
  Listen it first time, never listen them before. Want to say that all what I've read about "dryness and clynical", or thin sound of HD800 I don't hear. Nothing same there! Very comfortable and detailed sound!
  I think is merit that I do not listen any lacks of HD800 is right amping them by Corda Classic. So, recommend to listen them in pair.
  Thank you, Jan Meier! And thanks to *AiDee* and *tropicana* for advices!


----------



## Argo Duck

Glad this worked out for you danik


----------



## Swatcsi

Quote: 





danik97 said:


> Received today an HD800 (thank's to Jan for discount).
> Listen it first time, never listen them before. Want to say that all what I've read about "dryness and clynical", or thin sound of HD800 I don't hear. Nothing same there! Very comfortable and detailed sound!
> I think is merit that I do not listen any lacks of HD800 is right amping them by Corda Classic. So, recommend to listen them in pair.
> Thank you, Jan Meier! And thanks to *AiDee* and *tropicana* for advices!


 
  Same here, when I auditioned the HD800 in the store I wasn't too fond of them, but decided to get them anyways since I always wanted it. when hooked up to the Classic, the combination is amazing. I've heard them on other ss amps under a thousand dollars and can't find anything that works as good as the Classic does.


----------



## Szadzik

Will be joining the club of owners soon. Reserved a Classic from Jan and will be listening to it in 2 weeks when I get back home. Cannot wait.


----------



## rasmushorn

Quote: 





szadzik said:


> Will be joining the club of owners soon. Reserved a Classic from Jan and will be listening to it in 2 weeks when I get back home. Cannot wait.


 
  I still love my Concerto. It just plays well with whatever headphone I connect to it. Enjoy the Classic when you receive it


----------



## Szadzik

Quote: 





rasmushorn said:


> I still love my Concerto. It just plays well with whatever headphone I connect to it. Enjoy the Classic when you receive it


 
   
  I hope to get over a week of listening this time and have enough time to test it properly. But it seems like a great amp for the money.


----------



## danik97

Does somebody compared a Classic with SPL Auditor? Seems that Classic may be upper of SPL in sounding at all.


----------



## elipson73

Hello,
  Does anybody try the Classic with AKG K 701 headphones ?
  Thanks


----------



## danik97

Quote: 





elipson73 said:


> Hello,
> Does anybody try the Classic with AKG K 701 headphones ?
> Thanks


 
  Corda Classic excellent works with HD800. Seems K701 would be fully drived too.
   
   
  Daniil


----------



## andybo

I think the corda classic is a slightly more smooth than the concerto or Symphony. A little difference there is. I have upgradet it and have also the new Daccod. Also there a litte bit smoother.


----------



## Synthax

Any impressions with Classic ant T1,T5p or T70 ? I'm very interested in. I started to have big confidence to Jan Meier after reading his description about amp-technology on his page. Very nice trick with position of headphones on head also..


----------



## Argo Duck

*Synthax*, from the music preferences in your profile I think you could find the Classic very good. It's a fine, all-round amp - lots of power for LCD2 and naturally covers high impedance (e.g. Beyer and Sennheiser territory) too. IMO Jan's best to date (I've owned a few of his amps).

With the T1 it has great sound-stage and imaging; is neutral, detailed and clean/smooth/balanced (i.e. does not artificially accentuate any part of the sound).

Although I tend to listen mostly to tube gear these days, I'm unlikely to sell the Classic. It's my 'benchmark' amp and sometimes just exactly what I want to listen to, especially with the LCD2 phones.


----------



## Foxjam

[size=10pt]Uh oh.  Wasn't familiar with Meier until a week or so ago.  Now I think I want to get the Classic and the Daccord (and an LCD-2).  The only problem is I just got the ALO Pan Am and the HE-400 less than a month ago.  Must resist the tempation for at least a few months!  Right now after all my reading I can't think of a combo I'd rather have.  Especially like that it has a crossfeed circuit.  Some of my music makes me dizzy and gets fatiguing.  This could keep me listening longer.  [/size]


----------



## vessa

in case if someone is interested about | CLASSIC for sale |


Spoiler: Click%20!



http://www.head-fi.org/t/650193/top-meier-audio-corda-classic-like-new


----------



## RedBull

Has anyone compared Classic and Lehmann BCL?


----------



## Szadzik

Anyone using this amp woth Fostex TH-600/ 900? It sounds great with T1s as some have already mentioned, but I am thinking about getting a pair of closed headphones and wondering what you guys use with this amp.


----------



## Jesterphile

Got my Classic yesterday. It's a great bit of kit! Looks really nice on top of its brother the daccord.


----------



## p a t r i c k

Quote: 





synthax said:


> Any impressions with Classic ant T1,T5p or T70 ? I'm very interested in. I started to have big confidence to Jan Meier after reading his description about amp-technology on his page. Very nice trick with position of headphones on head also..


 
   
  I don't find that head positioning trick works for me, at least not with my AKG K702s.
   
  Moving them around is easy as the inner circumference of the pads is pretty large, but to me they sound best just in the "normal" position, concentric with my lug holes (technical term).


----------



## zigy626

I am using the corda jazz with my HD800 but I am looking for an upgrade. My question is how much of an upgrade would be a corda classic. Right now there is a sale going on so it would be the right time to save some money. Will the corda classic make a significant difference to my setup? Thanks


----------



## Argo Duck

I saw your posts elsewhere (HD800 thread?). Are you quite sure your amp is the limiting component?

Sometimes the DAC limits what follows, so that no matter what amps you use, they will sound similar (e.g. can't give you any more detail than the DAC's output stage lets through, supposing it has some specific 'flavor' to it).

In other words, if you think you have a shortfall at the end of your chain, you have to question *everything* up the chain...


----------



## Jesterphile

The M-DAC is a good bit of kit, I doubt it is the component holding his set up back.
   
  I think going from Jazz -> Classic would be a nice upgrade, depending on how much you can sell the Jazz for


----------



## Argo Duck

Yes, and to be fair I haven't heard the M-DAC. One of my friends here on head-fi was impressed during an audition last year.

OTOH, I noticed mixed impressions. I've been following DAC threads rather obsessively for the last 18 months, and purely FWIW it did seem to me from those impressions it might have a 'sound' other than strictly neutral. *But really (see above) IDK! *

I've not heard the jazz either (I've owned or own the Arietta, Aria, Opera, Concerto and Classic), but for sure the Classic is superb and the best yet from Jan. However, zigy made the statement s/he couldn't distinguish the Jazz from the M-DAC's hp output  - meaning I think the next step needs thought...


----------



## Jesterphile

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Yes, and to be fair I haven't heard the M-DAC. One of my friends here on head-fi was impressed during an audition last year.
> 
> OTOH, I noticed mixed impressions. I've been following DAC threads rather obsessively for the last 18 months, and purely FWIW it did seem to me from those impressions it might have a 'sound' other than strictly neutral. *But really (see above) IDK!
> 
> ...


 
  Good points, I think the Classic has a bit more power than the Jazz so it could just be the Jazz isn't able to push the HD800's much better than the M-DAC's headstage?
   
  Don't mind me, I'm just a Classic fan boy


----------



## Argo Duck

Me too


----------



## zigy626

Thanks for the input guys. I love the M-Dac but I think I made a compromise with the Jazz. I am really tempted to just place an order for the classic. And maybe sell the Jazz on eBay at a later date. The main issue with the Jazz is the soundstage is not that great and when it comes to complex piece of music the instrument separation is not there. I would love to see what the HD800 is capable of but I am afraid Jazz is just not cutting it for me.


----------



## Jesterphile

The classic is excellent. This post indicates a fairly positive experience when using it with the HD800's: http://www.head-fi.org/t/557892/new-meier-audio-headphone-amp-corda-classic/150#post_8328591


----------



## dryvadeum

Quote: 





jesterphile said:


> The classic is excellent. This post indicates a fairly positive experience when using it with the HD800's: http://www.head-fi.org/t/557892/new-meier-audio-headphone-amp-corda-classic/150#post_8328591


 
  Stop acting like you know something


----------



## Jesterphile

Quote: 





dryvadeum said:


> Stop acting like you know something


 
  Stop being jealous


----------



## karmanfamily

Anyone selling his/her Corda Jazz or Classic?
Please pm me.


----------



## mentt

Can anybody comment on Classic/LCD2 combo?


----------



## Argo Duck

It's a very competent combination. It has a well-distributed and focused sound-stage (width and depth - crossfeed *off*), and I appreciate its balanced tonality and natural decay. It's neutral, but not boring (i.e. it doesn't add nor take away from the music as far as I can tell). Of the SS amps I've owned, I much prefer it to the Concerto and Violectric V100; and prefer it even more over the Schiit Lyr with 'good' performing tubes such as Matsu 6922.

DACs in these cases were Eastern Electric Minimax; Schiit Bifrost; Beresford Bushmaster; Meier Stagedac (my preferred dac).

I've since bought the BMC PureDAC which performs at a very different level from these others. Once I've tried it with the Classic/LCD2 I'll post a brief comment.

You should be able to find more detailed impressions using 'search this thread'


----------



## emertxe

argo duck said:


> It's a very competent combination. It has a well-distributed and focused sound-stage (width and depth - crossfeed *off*), and I appreciate its balanced tonality and natural decay. It's neutral, but not boring (i.e. it doesn't add nor take away from the music as far as I can tell). Of the SS amps I've owned, I much prefer it to the Concerto and Violectric V100; and prefer it even more over the Schiit Lyr with 'good' performing tubes such as Matsu 6922.
> 
> DACs in these cases were Eastern Electric Minimax; Schiit Bifrost; Beresford Bushmaster; Meier Stagedac (my preferred dac).
> 
> ...


 
  
 So is the Classic a lot better than Concerto? I thought that the difference is only in capacitors... Even Meier says the difference is rather small.
  
 Could you post some comparison between Classic and Concerto? Which one is the more accurate, which one offer more dimensionality in soundstage and how is the tonality? Is it worth upgrading from Concerto to Classic if sound is the only thing that matters for me? Or are those two amplifiers rather on the same level, with just slightly different approaches?


----------



## mentt

argo duck said:


> It's a very competent combination. It has a well-distributed and focused sound-stage (width and depth - crossfeed *off*), and I appreciate its balanced tonality and natural decay. It's neutral, but not boring (i.e. it doesn't add nor take away from the music as far as I can tell). Of the SS amps I've owned, I much prefer it to the Concerto and Violectric V100; and prefer it even more over the Schiit Lyr with 'good' performing tubes such as Matsu 6922.
> 
> DACs in these cases were Eastern Electric Minimax; Schiit Bifrost; Beresford Bushmaster; Meier Stagedac (my preferred dac).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you for reply, I am looking forward to your impressions regarding
 Classic/LCD2. Did you tried Classic also with T1?


----------



## Argo Duck

I hate to disagree with Jan  - and to be fair what I hear might be unit to unit variation - but I have found the Classic more full-bodied and to have less apparent attack probably because of this. When you can hear more midrange and bass information and harmonics are more present, attack may seem less.

I found the Classic almost 'holographic' so certainly dimensional - the first time I understood this word, which is usually applied to tube amps. The Concerto I have found quick and dry (i.e. decays quickly, harmonics are less present), giving it great attack and analytical ability. Because of this, I have kept the Concerto (as well as the Classic) but not listened to it in some time I must admit. The Classic is an amp I am always happy to listen to.

Btw, Classic has considerably more power than Concerto - around 2W versus around 1W (rms IIRC). See the information Jan provided Skylab for his review. But then, this is only 3db and claims that LCDs need 2W plus are exaggerated in my view.

It's hard to answer what you should do of course. I think the two amps are certainly more alike than they are different. Of the amps I listed, Concerto is second only to Classic _to my ears_. The differences are probably small after all!

ps: again, I think you can find more of my comments with search this thread. I intended but never did do a full comparative review of the two. Life has just been too busy these last 18 months!



emertxe said:


> So is the Classic a lot better than Concerto? I thought that the difference is only in capacitors... Even Meier says the difference is rather small.
> 
> Could you post some comparison between Classic and Concerto? Which one is the more accurate, which one offer more dimensionality in soundstage and how is the tonality? Is it worth upgrading from Concerto to Classic if sound is the only thing that matters for me? Or are those two amplifiers rather on the same level, with just slightly different approaches?


----------



## emertxe

argo duck said:


> I hate to disagree with Jan
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks very much... I got my Concerto cheap (like 300USD) therefore not sure whether Classic is worth 600+USD. I am an analytical listener but your comment on the "holographic" soundstage of Classic is for sure tempting. I have read all the comparisons but it's not possible to make any definite conclusion from it - they are not clear enough to say whether Classic is really technically better amp, or whether it's just about slightly different tonality and maybe naturalness in decays or transients.
  
 Any additional comment would be much appreaciated... It seems that Concerto may be the right choice for me as an analytical listener ATM, though not completely sure?


----------



## Argo Duck

*mentt*, Classic and T1 is a very good pairing. LCD2 is my favorite hp and gets most of my head-time but the Classic/T1 combination is one that reminds me how good the T1 can sound. I particularly remember listening to some solo Bach violin, and finding the passion of the performance was much more apparent with the T1 (with Classic) than the LCD2 (which can be little too smooth and relaxed in the upper mids and above).


----------



## Argo Duck

I think the part in bold is a very fair summation. However, a direct head-to-head comparison can always produce unexpected surprises. If you don't mind waiting into next week, I could probably do a quick comparison. Too busy this week unfortunately...



emertxe said:


> Thanks very much... I got my Concerto cheap (like 300USD) therefore not sure whether Classic is worth 600+USD. I am an analytical listener but your comment on the "holographic" soundstage of Classic is for sure tempting. I have read all the comparisons but it's not possible to make any definite conclusion from it - they are not clear enough to say whether Classic is really technically better amp, or whether *it's just about slightly different tonality and maybe naturalness in decays or transients*.
> 
> Any additional comment would be much appreaciated... It seems that Concerto may be the right choice for me as an analytical listener ATM, though not completely sure?


----------



## emertxe

argo duck said:


> I think the part in bold is a very fair summation. However, a direct head-to-head comparison can always produce unexpected surprises. If you don't mind waiting into next week, I could probably do a quick comparison. Too busy this week unfortunately...


 
  
 I will try to contact you then though PM... I own Sennheiser HD800 only but a quick comparison with various tracks using your Beyerdynamic T1 should be more than enough  But even if you don't find enough time to do the comparison, I am still grateful for your responses today


----------



## dryvadeum

The classic is slightly smoother and laid back compared to the concerto which is brighter and faster. They're very similar though.


----------



## emertxe

dryvadeum said:


> The classic is slightly smoother and laid back compared to the concerto which is brighter *and faster. They're very similar though*.


 
  
 Oh, thanks... It seems I'll stay with Concerto then


----------



## Jesterphile

emertxe said:


> Oh, thanks... It seems I'll stay with Concerto then


 
 I only found the concerto to be slightly brighter while the classic is smoother and full sounding.


----------



## musicmaker

I enjoy the concerto very much with my Edition 8. Completely agree with AiDee's characterization of its sound. It is a fast amp for sure. I replaced the opamps in the concerto to the AD797BN and it took it to a whole new level. Also going to try the LME49990 
  
 I am curious about the classic though. Might try it one of these days. Comments about the soundstage and fuller sound have me interested.


----------



## rasmushorn

musicmaker said:


> I enjoy the concerto very much with my Edition 8. Completely agree with AiDee's characterization of its sound. It is a fast amp for sure. I replaced the opamps in the concerto to the AD797BN and it took it to a whole new level. Also going to try the LME49990
> 
> I am curious about the classic though. Might try it one of these days. Comments about the soundstage and fuller sound have me interested.


 
 Hey - that sounds interresting. I would love to try the AD797BN. Can you say a little bit more about the differences to the stock OPAMPS?
  
 How many OPAMPS does the Concerto have? It is 5 right?


----------



## musicmaker

rasmushorn said:


> Hey - that sounds interresting. I would love to try the AD797BN. Can you say a little bit more about the differences to the stock OPAMPS?
> 
> How many OPAMPS does the Concerto have? It is 5 right?


 
  
 6 opamps. The 797BN is a very open sounding, fast and detailed opamp. In comparison the 797A although very good in and of itself has a slightly compressed stage but perhaps with slightly better bass.


----------



## rasmushorn

musicmaker said:


> 6 opamps. The 797BN is a very open sounding, fast and detailed opamp. In comparison the 797A although very good in and of itself has a slightly compressed stage but perhaps with slightly better bass.


 
 OK thanks. Faster and more details. That sounds like something worth trying. I can live without some bass since I am not a bass addict. OPAMPS are usually very cheap so I will try to find 6 pcs of those here in the EU.


----------



## musicmaker

rasmushorn said:


> OK thanks. Faster and more details. That sounds like something worth trying. I can live without some bass since I am not a bass addict. OPAMPS are usually very cheap so I will try to find 6 pcs of those here in the EU.


 
 Yes the BN version is a bit rare. Make sure you get genuine ones. There are a number of sellers from china selling em but not sure if they're authentic. I got mine (and a spare set) from another head-fier.


----------



## laughingbuddha

Anyone got Meyer Corda Head 6 for sale ??


----------



## punit

Did anyone try using the Classic to drive HE 500 , how do they pair ?


----------



## Jesterphile

Works well, very well.


----------



## punit

Confirmed, Really does work well.


----------



## Amictus

Jan has a 'sale-action' on at the moment. http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/ I wish that I had more euros stashed away.


----------



## Maxxum5x

punit said:


> Did anyone try using the Classic to drive HE 500 , how do they pair ?


 
 Listening to my He-500s on a Corda Classic/DACCORD stack as I type this.  Oh, it most certainly works well!


----------



## punit

Did a A/B between Lyr & Meier Classic using HE 500, source was Audio GD NFB 7 with Mac Mini running Pure Music & Wav files. IMHO the Meier Classic is better than the Lyr for driving the HE 500. Better dynamics (more fun, exciting to listen to) & slightly bigger sound stage. I was keeping the Lyr around only for the HE 500, looks like might not be needing it anymore.


----------



## punit

& then switched to HD 800......& after 30 mins to TH 900. Drives all of them with aplomb. What a versatile amp...


----------



## Amictus

punit said:


> Did a A/B between Lyr & Meier Classic using HE 500, source was Audio GD NFB 7 with Mac Mini running Pure Music & Wav files. IMHO the Meier Classic is better than the Lyr for driving the HE 500. Better dynamics (more fun, exciting to listen to) & slightly bigger sound stage. I was keeping the Lyr around only for the HE 500, looks like might not be needing it anymore.


 

 What tubes were you using in the Lyr? Just out of curiosity...


----------



## punit

using Amperex Orange Globes & have Bugle Boys in the mail...


----------



## Argo Duck

^ The Lyr is an entirely different beast dependent on tubes - _very_ responsive to rolling. Those are pretty fair tubes but I wouldn't be too quick to draw conclusions. OTOH the tubes that work best with the Lyr got driven to astronomical prices then became unobtainable!

However, I agree - the Classic is a superb and versatile amp. Full bodied (meaning balanced tone from bass to highs), neither dry nor wet, nice soundstage and good dynamics. I'm mostly into tubes these days but the Classic is the reference point I use to help tune and periodically re-calibrate my Decwares.


----------



## Suopermanni

Just wanted to give Jan a thumbs up for sending the Corda Classic to my friend in the UK. He loves it!


----------



## punit

Just out of curiosity, Has anyone compared the Classic with either the Violectric V181 or V200 ?


----------



## Argo Duck

No-one that I recall. I briefly compared V100 and Classic (level-matched) in response to a PM - don't think I reported it here. Classic _considerably_ better in terms of sound-stage and control through the range (e.g. tight bass), IIRC. Simply better.

The V100 hasn't got much press on head-fi, as the V200 got noticed around the same time. There was a thread or two some years ago. One of the thread-starters did a nice, thorough review of the 100 IIRC, subsequently moved on to the V200 and - initially at least - thought the differences were subtle (e.g. tighter bass, again!).

OTOH, several other head-fiers who heard both thought the V200 a lot better. But these were impressions rather than full-scale comparisons.

In other words, my quick comparison of the Classic and V100 might or might not be any value wrt the V200!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I have the V100, V200 and Corda Classic. The Meier and Violectrics are very different sounding to me


----------



## 314Stone

Any comments on Lieven's recent daccord & corda classic review on headphonia?
  
 According to him "Violectric V200 is more powerful and has a more dynamic sound signature with bigger body and bass and a more smooth and musical sound".
  
 He also finds the classic more suitable for dynamic headphones than planar headphones like he-500 and lcd-2, which he finds "missing in the lower frequencies" with classic.


----------



## punit

314stone said:


> He also finds the classic more suitable for dynamic headphones than planar headphones like he-500 and lcd-2, which he finds "missing in the lower frequencies" with classic.


 
 I don't agree with the HE 500 part. Have used the Classic with HE 500 & thought it was a very good pairing, in fact I thought it better than the LYR with HE 500 (the Lyr is recommended as one of the best value amps for HE 500 on the HE 500 thread).


----------



## Argo Duck

I find the Classic very good with LCD2: surprised to hear it is "missing in the lower frequencies".

However, I've only heard the V100. V200 might be much better than the 100.


----------



## Ultrainferno

That's one of the big differences between the V100 and V200


----------



## Argo Duck

One of my head-fi buddies - a one-time sound mixer - found the V200 and LCD2.2 an exceptional combination, this with the WFS DAC2 as source.

I have an amp that betters the Classic with LCD2...but cost me twice (nowadays thrice) as much.


----------



## Theogenes

argo duck said:


> One of my head-fi buddies - a one-time sound mixer - found the V200 and LCD2.2 an exceptional combination, this with the WFS DAC2 as source.
> 
> I have an amp that betters the Classic with LCD2...but cost me twice (nowadays thrice) as much.


 
  
 May I ask which one? One of your Decwares, perhaps?


----------



## Argo Duck

Yes, Taboo. Deep, tight bass; extended, sparkling treble. Overall, the presentation is more 'vivid', almost as if tracks get decompressed to some degree. Same applies to the other Decware (CSP2) with Beyer T1.

These amps are very responsive to tube-rolling. In my case, I prefer a more-or-less neutral signature: definitely not 'tubey' or syrupy or warm. And that's how I've tuned them.

I'm sure the Decwares aren't truly neutral in the same sense as well-executed SS amps, but - as tuned - the differences aren't obvious.

The Classic is just a darn good amp though, which I'm happy to listen to. As well, it acts as a 'standard'. So I know when the Decwares are drifting due to tube-age or whatever. I expect to keep the Classic (and the Decwares) for a long time.


----------



## Theogenes

Good to know man, thanks for the comparison!!


----------



## 314Stone

Your comments give support to my supposition concerning Lieven's review on the Classic: if you like more neutral sounding amps like the Classic, you are more likely not to find hp's like he500 and lcd2 missing in lower frequencies, but if you are like Lieven and you like amps which somehow are "colouring" and perhaps somehow emphasizing lower frequencies and giving you therefore a sensation that the bass has more body and texture, then you can find he500 and lcd2 missing in lower frequencies with the Classic.
  
 What do you think, am I on the right track here or just completely lost?


----------



## Ultrainferno

I couldn't agree more


----------



## Argo Duck

^^ Makes sense to me 314Stone.

It's not always possible to reconcile reviews and impressions that disagree. There's just too much information left out or not measurable., e.g. it's possible different brains 'decode' (perceive) differently even if, somehow, we could claim the sensory stream is the same.

This is speculative, but maybe this contributes something: recently I added a new DAC to my system, the BMC PureDAC. I was staggered how much more I can hear (a) low-level information; (b) bass and lower-mid detail and texture. My first thought about point (b) was the BMC is 'bass heavy'. However, I'm sure this is not the case: it doesn't present unnatural _quantities_ of bass. What differs is the amount of information e.g. detail, which I think makes it seem as though there is more bass. It's like a photograph with parts suddenly brought into sharper focus, making those parts stand out more.

The point about the Taboo versus the Classic is that although I find the Taboo more 'vivid' - _in comparison_ the dynamics are perhaps a touch exaggerated? - and just a little more detailed, as I've tuned it it has the same overall balance as the Classic. No obvious coloration. This makes them quite compatible partners I find...


----------



## 314Stone

AiDee, if I understood you correctly, you also think that it is possible that a neutral sounding amp X can sound more bass heavy than another neutral sounding amp Y, if the amp X can produce more detail in lower frequencies (and in other frequencies too in order to sound neutral) than the amp Y ?
  
 But could it be that before you are able to listen and enjoy the sound of the amp X giving you much more detailed info about the music/sound than your old amp Y, you have to first teach your brain to process/handle more detailed music/sound information than your brain is used to?  And the more detailed music/sound information you teach your brain to process/handle, the more expensive amps, DACs, headphones, speakers etc. you are able to find enjoying/desirable?
  
 And if we go back to Lieven's review related to Classic, it could be that the combo V200 and HE500/LCD2 may sound different to his the ears than the combo Classic and HE500/LCD2, because
 a) V200 is not so neutral sounding than the Classic (i.e. V200 exaggerates something in the music more, lower frequencies and dynamics perhaps?) and
 b) V200 gives you more detailed information about the music/sound than the Classic.


----------



## Ultrainferno

You didnt adk me but:

V200 does have more bass, more body and a warmer sound. I dont find it as detailed as the corda but it is warmer sounding and more dynamic to me. The corda is the more neutral one


----------



## Argo Duck

Hi 314, this is something I'm speculating about, semi-professionally. I'm a research psychologist but _not_ in the area of perception. That's why I call it a speculation, not a hypothesis.

Nevertheless, I've wondered how two neutral _dacs_ in the case I cited could sound subjectively different in the bass area, and my speculation is that resolution/detail might be one explanation. There are other variables though, e.g. different distortion spectra which I've discussed with a couple of EE friends. Electronics is not my area either and I only vaguely understand what they're talking about. Indeed, Ultrainferno's example above shows detail can't be the only variable.

Another possibility is subtle frequency-response differences, supposing it's the integral (summed area) of the difference between the response curves rather than the instantaneous difference at a given frequency that we 'hear'. But this is just another speculation of mine which so far I've only discussed (inconclusively) with one EE. Speculation is easy; coming up with stuff that actually might be true is much harder!

In terms of your question in your second paragraph, I assume it's more a matter of how one has naturally learned to hear, rather than explicitly teaching oneself to hear in this way. In my case, with the DAC I mentioned, it may be that my brain at some time learned to decode more bass detail as "more bass". Someone else might hear it differently. Of course, I hear a deliberately bass-heavy component as "more bass" too, so this is where real measurements become useful to know which situation is which.

Your concluding points (a) and (b) could certainly be inferred from my speculation, but - again - Ultrainferno's response shows there are other factors in play and other explanations even in the unlikely event the speculation is correct.


----------



## 314Stone

Thank you AiDee for opening more your interesting speculations concerning factors affecting how you/we hear the music coming from , for example, amp/HP combo. This is a very interesting topic and I very much would like to continue changing ideas and opinions about it, but perhaps this forum is not the right place to go deeper into this topic.
  
 By the way I am also from Finland.


----------



## SunTanScanMan

Hello all.
 After a long time saving up, ordered T1 + Classic + Daccord from Jan this morning. Has been posted this morning. Will be connecting the set up to my PC.
  
 Previous set up wasPC > USB cable >  HRT microstreamer > Audio Technica ATH AD700X - Both are very decent equipment, but the headphones were getting too uncomfortable. (small edit: recently washed my earpads and they seem to have 'puffed up' and hold onto the head much more securely)
  
 I've recently become interested in improving my audio set up and the Head-fi discussion threads for meier products helped me a lot when choosing them over what seemed to me like an ocean of other products out there. I'm very happy with my investment, so thanks all  
  
 Think I should add my appreciation on Jan's quick and friendly response and to my queries.
  
 Can't wait. Hope the equipment has a safe journey to the UK from Germany.


----------



## Scarfin

suntanscanman said:


> Hello all.
> After a long time saving up, ordered T1 + Classic + Daccord from Jan this morning. Has been posted this morning. Will be connecting the set up to my PC.
> 
> Previous set up wasPC > USB cable >  HRT microstreamer > Audio Technica ATH AD700X - Both are very decent equipment, but the headphones were getting too uncomfortable.
> ...


 
  
 Awesome! Can't wait to hear your first impressions. I'll order Daccord + Classic before the end of the month. Still haven't decided if I choose T1 or HD800 to pair with the stack.


----------



## SunTanScanMan

scarfin said:


> Awesome! Can't wait to hear your first impressions. I'll order Daccord + Classic before the end of the month. Still haven't decided if I choose T1 or HD800 to pair with the stack.


 
  I had the same dilemma. A lot of comparison out there on these two headphones... I would like to say that I went with the T1 because of users saying that it suited a broader range of music styles than the HD800...
  
 But I would be lying. 
  
 I chose the T1 mostly because I liked its more conservative design. Even if classical music (which I listen to a lot) may sound better on the HD800, I just could not get used to its space age design. Being a uni student I did have some time to think about it, while saving up for over a year... 
  
 There I said it.... don't judge me too harshly for choosing a headphone on aesthetics


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Aesthetics seems an excellent basis of choice. All of my girlfriends have been chosen with aesthetic considerations a significant factor!

Back on topic, I think you will find your T1 - Classic - Daccord (I own the StageDAC) combination excellent.

314Stone, I agree this is not the right forum! Btw, I must apologise for unwittingly misleading you about where I live. "Finn-land" is a play on the name of the Finn brothers, prominent musicians in my country New Zealand. The younger had a US hit with his song _Don't dream it's over_. I live in the region where the brothers were born and grew up.


----------



## SunTanScanMan

argo duck said:


> ^ Aesthetics seems an excellent basis of choice. All of my girlfriends have been chosen with aesthetic considerations a significant factor!
> 
> Back on topic, I think you will find your T1 - Classic - Daccord (I own the StageDAC) combination excellent.
> 
> 314Stone, I agree this is not the right forum! Btw, I must apologise for unwittingly misleading you about where I live. "Finn-land" is a play on the name of the Finn brothers, prominent musicians in my country New Zealand. The younger had a US hit with his song _Don't dream it's over_. I live in the region where the brothers were born and grew up.


 
 Speaking of going off topic - I also seem to have done too in my last post, so apologies  . But I hope to remedy this by writing my impressions of the Corda Classic once I've had some time with it. From my current setup I imagine I will notice some difference.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Look forward to your impressions 

Don't think you went off topic at all! The T1, LCD2 and from what I hear LCD3 and HD800 are all great matches with the Classic. After all, without headphones we wouldn't be able to talk about this amp


----------



## Jan Meier

Dear headfellows,
  
 from the comments on Head-Fi it shows that various people seem to be somewhat disappointed by the CLASSIC/DACCORD-review on Headfonia.
  
 To be honest, although Lieven clearly stated that the CLASSIC is not his favourite amp, I myself am pretty pleased by this review. The sonic signatures of amp and DAC were well and honestly described and the merits of this combo were made clear. Lieven did recognize the qualities of both devices, just indicated that his personal preferences with regard to the amp were somewhat different. That is a very valid and honorable approach.
  
 On my website you will never find a sentence like “this is the very best amplifier on the market” or “you won’t find any better headphone than this”. The appreciation of equipment is a very personal one. I do sell headphones that personally I don’t like very much but whose merits I do recognize nonetheless and of whom I can understand that other people adore them. There simply isn’t something like the “best” or “this amp suits all”.
  
 Yes, I don’t feel very comfortable with the reviews by Mike. His personal preferences clearly are not my preferences and as he clearly doesn’t like the CORDA sound he did “bash” them. The distinction between “technical” merits and personal taste was not made. The description of e.g. crossfeed was strongly lacking. And a remark that CORDA equipment is well suited for sound-engineers but not for consumers I personally find rather “strange”. Sound-engineers spend thousands of dollars on studio-equipment that should be as neutral as possible to make their recordings and mixings sound as good as they can and then this kind of equipment shouldn’t be suited for consumers??
  
 In this context one should well be aware that it is probably the most difficult discipline to make a neutral piece of equipment that still sounds musical and fluent without any solid-state nastinesses / harshnesses. To make a warm sounding amp with more “Oomph” without ultimate detail is a much easier exercise. The fact that many amps have such “consumer-friendly” sound may well have to do with this, not just by the “average” taste.
  
 CORDA amplifiers do not produce a WOW-effect! I’ve learned that equipment that does something particularly well always has deficits in other disciplines. Although maybe lots of fun at first hearing they’re often not well suited for long-term use because they always superimpose their own character on the sound. Sometimes in a nice way, but sometimes also in a negative way. Equipment that simply gets out of the way and doesn’t add anything to the recording and doesn’t leave anything out to my ears is much more satisfying in the long run. That’s how I personally like it and that’s how I design my products.
  
 As a side note please be aware that it is quite simple to change to sound of both CLASSIC and DACCORD. The opamps used in these devices are socketed and can be easily exchanged by other brands/models. A different opamp really can make a difference in sound.
  
 Parameters for the opamps:
  
 Enclosure: 8-pin PDIP
 Suppyvoltages CLASSIC: +/- 18V
 Suppyvoltages DACCORD: +/- 15V
 Pin2: -input
 Pin3: +input
 Pin4: -18V / -15V
 Pin6: output
 Pin7: +18V / +15V
 Pin1/5/8: Not connected (NC)
  
 Both the CLASSIC and the DACCORD need 6 opamps each.
  
 Should people do experiment with opamps their comments on Head-Fi would be strongly appreciated.
  
 Cheers
  
 Jan


----------



## lithium1085

Hi Jan,
  
 Thanks for the classy comment above and the info about the opamps. I for one really liked the headfonia review even though Lieven did not find it to be his personal best. I was looking at the Corda Classic and I was wondering if you could give some more specs for the amp. Particularly, power delivery into various loads, THD and SNR. 
 Thanks again


----------



## Jan Meier

Dear Lithium,
  
 As for power, this strongly depends on the amplitude of the input signal and the impedance of the load. For a given impedance it can be calculated from:
  

Maximum output voltage:         10 Volts (2 Volts analog input)

Maximum output current:          500 mA / channel

  

All values rms!

  

These values are enough to make your ears bleed with almost any headphone.

  

As for THD, I never have been able to measure. My equipment simply isn't precise enough. I can't measure below 0.2%

  

SNR depends on many factors like amplification factor and signal amplitude but the manufacturer did some standard measurements for the CONCERTO (predecessor of the CLASSIC) and came to values between 130 and 140 dB. Shouldn't be a problem. Most people report CORDA amplifiers to have a very black background.

  

 To be honest though, I never look too much at technical measurements when I develop a new model. A lot is done by ear!

  

 Cheers

  

 Jan


----------



## lithium1085

So assuming a perfect voltage source, I get 2W RMS power into a 50 ohm load. Pretty impressive! Kudos on the volume control as well, too many people cheap out on such an essential part.


----------



## 314Stone

For Skylab Jan has provided a couple years ago following info about the maximum output of Classic:
  

At 600 Ohm: 160 mW / channel
At 300 Ohm: 320 mW / channel
At 50 Ohm: 1.9 W / channel
At 30 Ohm: 3.2 W / channel
  
 Jan suspected that "CORDA amplifiers do not produce a WOW-effect". I am not sure this is true. When you at first time hear a neutral sounding good quality equipment like the Classic, it is possible that they do not give you an immediate WOW -feeling, especially if you have been accustomed to hear equipments exaggerating bass and dynamic. But if you have enough patience and keep on listening to them, after a while you start to hear details and nuances in the music you have not heard before. At this point come the WOW -feelings and they continue to keep on coming after that.


----------



## yeemanz

314stone said:


> Jan suspected that "CORDA amplifiers do not produce a WOW-effect". I am not sure this is true. When you at first time hear a neutral sounding good quality equipment like the Classic, it is possible that they do not give you an immediate WOW -feeling, especially if you have been accustomed to hear equipments exaggerating bass and dynamic. But if you have enough patience and keep on listening to them, after a while you start to hear details and nuances in the music you have not heard before. At this point come the WOW -feelings and they continue to keep on coming after that.


 
  
 Well said 314Stone!


----------



## rasmushorn

314stone said:


> Jan suspected that "CORDA amplifiers do not produce a WOW-effect". I am not sure this is true. When you at first time hear a neutral sounding good quality equipment like the Classic, it is possible that they do not give you an immediate WOW -feeling, especially if you have been accustomed to hear equipments exaggerating bass and dynamic. But if you have enough patience and keep on listening to them, after a while you start to hear details and nuances in the music you have not heard before. At this point come the WOW -feelings and they continue to keep on coming after that.


 
 I can only agree to that. I have bought and borrowed several other amplifiers to compare with my Concerto over the years and even though some of them had that initial wow-factor they all failed in the long run. The Concerto (and Classic I assume) just plays music the way it is supposed to sound. I do not have a desktop rig at the moment but when I am going to get one again I will not look anywhere else than at a Meier amplifier.


----------



## SunTanScanMan

Hello all. Out of curiosity I wondered what settings you were using on the Classic.
 I'm a recent buyer along with the T1. Tried experimenting with high and low gain. Though I'm still getting used to the new gear, I don't feel the need to use the high gain button for the T1. I suppose that option is there for other headphones more difficult to drive?
  
 Also if anyone is using the Classic with the Daccord I wondered whether you had any views on crossfeed - i.e. activate on both equipment or just the one?
  
 From my short time experimenting, activating crossfeed on just the Daccord seems to agree with me - though it probably is my imagination...


----------



## punit

I prefer high gain for the T1, (really haven't done an extensive A/B comparison of the sound from high gain vs low gain setting) maybe its just for mental satisfaction that I have more headroom on the volume knob 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I also prefer playing with the settings on the DAC & leave the Classic settings on normal.


----------



## RazorJack

I think the gain switch has more to do with the source music rather than the headphones.
  
 High gain is only required for me when I use a really lousy source, like my phone.
  
 Some movies for some reason also have ridicuously low output volume.


----------



## SunTanScanMan

Thanks for the feedback guys. Hmnn I wonder if there are any changes to the sound (other than getting louder) when the gain button is used. Even if it is not intentional if you understand me...


----------



## Frank I

I been listening to theLCD x on low gain and using the alpha dog sometime with high gain but they both work on the low setting well. The amplifier just plays music. Very neutral with good transparency. Been using it steady now since it arrived with the Daccord. The ampliifer is excellent as is the daccord.  Will run the Th900 and the hd800 some this week and waiting for the LCD XC.


----------



## punit

It has amazing synergy with TH900 & T1, the HD 800 though sounds very mediocre on it IMHO, its not horrible but not very good either. I used to think it does a good job on HD 800, but that was before I heard the HD 800 on Tubes.


----------



## Frank I

I have the Woo WA5 as my reference amplifier so not worried and will compare it to the WA5 but thats asking the classic to do alot considering the WA5 with tubes is 4500.00 .  I will see how it compares to the newly arrived Heed Canalot.


----------



## punit

Even Woo WA 6 (with USAF 596 + TS 6SN7) out performs the Classic with the HD 800 IMHO.


----------



## Frank I

The HD800 and T1 are both excellent for tube amplifiers as is the case for many higher impedance cans.  The tonality of tube amplifiers get  most of it right. The biggest difference Iam hearing on the two is the increased transparency and soundstage using the WA5,   but I been listening mostly with the Classic with the daccord since it got here and have not wanted to shut it off. That is telling me its a good musical amplifier.


----------



## punit

The difference between the Classic vs. WA6 / Btlhd Crack was very minimal for T1, I could happily listen to T1 on any of them. T1 is better on WA22 but It is not fair to compare Classic with WA22, as that's another league.


----------



## Frank I

punit said:


> The difference between the Classic vs. WA6 / Btlhd Crack was very minimal for T1, I could happily listen to T1 on any of them. T1 is better on WA22 but It is not fair to compare Classic with WA22, as that's another league.


 
 The  Classic is holding up well for the money and is a good value. The WA22 with upgrade tubes is 4 x more expensive.  I dont have the Woo amps here to compare anymore except my WA5 which is really not a fair assessment but the Classic is not choking. LOL


----------



## Scarfin

punit said:


> It has amazing synergy with TH900 & T1, the HD 800 though sounds very mediocre on it IMHO, its not horrible but not very good either. I used to think it does a good job on HD 800, but that was before I heard the HD 800 on Tubes.


 
  
 I'm glad you wrote this post. I was about to order HD800 (and the Corda stack later next week) but now I think changed my mind, AGAIN. I'm gonna go with the T1 since there's so much positive feedback about them paired with the Corda stack here. Can't go wrong with this setup, I hope.


----------



## punit

The Classic is not bad with the the HE 6 , wasn't expecting this  after I've read how difficult these are to drive in order get good sound. Bass is decent, Highs are smooth, which is not the case when a HP is under amped.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Probably shows the Classic has decent headroom with well controlled distortion - THD and IMD

Nice to see you like the combination Frank - looking forward to your review!


----------



## SunTanScanMan

scarfin said:


> I'm glad you wrote this post. I was about to order HD800 (and the Corda stack later next week) but now I think changed my mind, AGAIN. I'm gonna go with the T1 since there's so much positive feedback about them paired with the Corda stack here. Can't go wrong with this setup, I hope.


 
 Hey Scarfin I think you will be very happy with that set up. I have the same.
  
 I've had my set up just under a week, and I've used at least 6 hours everyday. I didn't have much experience with high end gear, so I didn't know what to expect. After extensive research online, it was pretty much a blind jump into the unknown.
  
 I listen to most of my music through Spotify premium. Prior to my purchase, I had been listening to various versions of Beethoven's Symphony No.6 ("Pastoral") available there[Herbert von Karajan (Berlin Phil), Simon Rattle (Vienna Phil), Andre Cluytens (Berlin Phil), Claudio Abbado (Vienna Phil), Carlo Maria Giulini (LA Phil)]   
  
First Impressions
 The first time I listened to the music through the daccord, classic and T1, I could tell some difference from before, but there was definitely NO WOW-effect. I'm not saying that I felt let down, because the difference in the sound quality from my previous set up was noticeable - I could hear the sound was clean (in that there was no 'fuzziness') and instruments well defined.
  
 But I suppose I was expecting to be able to hear greater separation in the instruments as I had previously read that as one of the T1's characteristics. 
  
Gradual Impressions
 HOWEVER, around the 3rd day, I started noticing a change in what I was hearing. Before I suppose it was like hearing good quality sound in 2D, but gradually the various instrument sections in the orchestra gained their own prominence and detail. 
  
 Here I am writing this on the 5th day since using the gear, and the changes in the sound have continued, at least to my ears.
  
Prominence and detail
 It seemed like something had 'loosened' and relaxed, and whereas before the equipment seemed to be merely projecting the music (allbeit in excellent sound quality), the difference now was that I could discern more clearly details such as the vibrato of the string section. Moreover, listen and you will hear the melodies of these less forward instruments such as the double bass. The conductor dictating the tempo as well as the volume of the musicians could also be more appreciated. The strings 'sing' to a more noticeable degree now. These textures means that the biggest difference I notice as time passes with meier gear and T1 is that I notice the musicians' input to the music to a greater degree.
  
 The gradual change in the sound I perceive feels to me that the headphones seem to be 'playing' the instruments rather than merely projecting. I suppose this is what other reviewers/writers meant when they wrote of the musicality of the T1, as well as its match with the meier equipment.
  
 For me this has made listening to the 6th symphony an even greater joy. Being able to appreciate the different interpretations and nuances given by the different orchestra musicians as well as the composers makes listening very intriguing. Not to mention glimpsing the genius of the composer through their composition. For me it's also wonderful to hear Beethoven put as much effort and affection into composing for every instrument section. 
  
Burn-in time(?!!?!)
 I'd read about 'burning-in' your headphones/equipment, whilst looking into headphones, and I am aware of the contentious debate surrounding it. What I can definitely say is that I am finding myself enjoying listening to the same piece of music to an ever greater degree since my first listen. Could it be just my ears adjusting to the new equipment? Perhaps, but I am certain that my listening enjoyment is so much better than my first 2-3 says.
  
 So I am beginning to understand what people were saying about returning to the Meiers and T1, and also what Jan writes of the Wow-feelings coming after. The phrase that 'good things come to those who wait' is a lame cliche to end on, but is one which sums up my experience with the Cordas and T1 
  
 Substitute the 6th symphony with your own favourite music and I think you will find a lot of enjoyment from the music.
  
 (Apologies in advance to the thread if I've gone too far off topic - I found it impossible to separate the effect of the Classic on its own since I've changed all my equipment together.)
 -----------
  
 P.S. I suppose you will take advantage of the Meier sale that is on at the moment? I got my daccord and classic as well as the T1 from Meier with a good deal. It may be worth emailing Jan as he responds very promptly, and answered all my queries. Not to mention the I received my order to the UK faster than I was expecting!!


----------



## Frank I

argo duck said:


> ^ Probably shows the Classic has decent headroom with well controlled distortion - THD and IMD
> 
> Nice to see you like the combination Frank - looking forward to your review!


 
  I am having fun with it.


----------



## Argo Duck

SunTanScanMan, not at all off-topic and great notes


----------



## lithium1085

@SunTanScanMan  - excellent impressions!


----------



## Frank I

I been loading my entire cd collectoion over 1500 of them on my imac as a server. I been listening to the Meier stack for like  10-12 hrs a day while doing this projects with zero fatigue and never wanting to switch amps or sources. That is a major accomplishment for any amplifier.


----------



## RazorJack

Frank, could you describe what you mean with this "fatigue" phenomenon?
  
 When I hear that term used in the context of Head-fi, the first thing that comes to mind would be getting tired of wearing a headphone on the head, which I get after several hours of using on-the-ear headphones or in-ear earbuds. But I take it that's not what you are referring to?


----------



## Frank I

Fatigue is when you lose interest and cant listen anymore whether it be  headphone or a nasty piece of electronics, Their are amplifiers I have reviewed where I couldn't listen more than a hour before I got headaches and just needed to walk away from the electronics. This amplifier lets me listen for hours without wanting to take breaks. Thats how I refer to fatigue. There have been amplifiers I couldn't listen to for long period of time.


----------



## RazorJack

Ok thanks, I get it now.
  
 Can't say I've ever noticed this effect though.


----------



## Scarfin

suntanscanman said:


> Hey Scarfin I think you will be very happy with that set up. I have the same.
> 
> I've had my set up just under a week, and I've used at least 6 hours everyday. I didn't have much experience with high end gear, so I didn't know what to expect. After extensive research online, it was pretty much a blind jump into the unknown.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the first impressions, SunTanScanMan!
  
 Have you been satisfied with the sound quality (320kpbs) of Spotify premium? I use the service, too. I'd like to take advantage of 24bit/96kHz sound quality the Daccord supports but I'm not sure is it worth the higher cost. Albums on HDTracks.com cost $20 minimum. Spotify premium is 10 euros / month and you can listen whatever you want (if the album is in Spotifys catalog, anyway).
  
 And yes, I'll take advantage of the Meier sale. I'll grab MEIR-AUDIO RCA-to-RCA cable and SIEVEKING SOUND Omega stand with the Corda stack, the whole package should cost 1,225 euros. I have to order the T1 from another place, though.
  
 By the way, is there any Apple users here? I'm gonna hook my Retina MacBook Pro to the Daccord with toslink(s/pdif)-miniplug(s/pdif) cable. The Late 2013 MacBooks should support 96kHz audio through the headphone output: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5783. I suppose the sound quality should be about the same through USB and optical output?
  
 And one more question for the movie buffs. How can I get the best possible audio quality from movies with my MacBook? I mostly watch ripped Blu-rays. Is there any difference in e.g. TrueHD audio to some "lesser" audio codecs when using two channel headphones?
  
 Thank you in advance!


----------



## SunTanScanMan

scarfin said:


> Thanks for the first impressions, SunTanScanMan!
> 
> Have you been satisfied with the sound quality (320kpbs) of Spotify premium? I use the service, too. I'd like to take advantage of 24bit/96kHz sound quality the Daccord supports but I'm not sure is it worth the higher cost. Albums on HDTracks.com cost $20 minimum. Spotify premium is 10 euros / month and you can listen whatever you want (if the album is in Spotifys catalog, anyway).
> 
> ...


 
 I live in the UK, so I don't think I can get tracks from HDTracks.com (legally), and tbh I haven't really gone out of my way to do so. 
 For now I'm very satisfied with the sound quality of spotify premium, but from experience, how the record was originally recorded and mixed shows can go a long way to how interesting it sounds with high end gear. 
  
 Just as an example, and a non classical one, listen to 'Hums of the Lovin' Spoonful' album on spotify. The position of the instruments and voices are so much more pronounced - I've had lots of fun experimenting with the Crossfeed circuit of my Meier stack.
  
 The quality of the music has shone through with the gear, and spotify for me allows for exploring and finding new music.


----------



## Argo Duck

Concerning listening fatigue, among my speaker audio group in years gone by we found fatigue - exactly as Frank describes it - a reliable way of detecting distortion. A poor amp could be one reason; another, that it was being over-driven and 'clipping' on transients. If the transient was long enough you could definitely hear it, or in other cases you would only notice once you hooked up a 'better' (might be 'more powerful') amp. It would sound distinctly more pleasant. Fatigue and headache gone.

Don't know what it does to phones but for sure speakers don't benefit from large quantities of square waves delivered at clipping!


----------



## Trey36

I see I'm late to this discussion but, WOW. I just picked up the Corda Classic and I'm in amazement when it comes to the clean power coming out of this amplifier (especially for the price). I have mine paired with the HD800 on his recommendation and I'm glad I did. This is pure art IMHO, I'm using my Hifiman 901 as my DAC and I was clearly wrong thinking the sound could not get any better. This company has a loyal customer for as long as products like this are being produced.


----------



## Frank I

The amp is clean and like jan said he designed it to just get out of the way. Nice piece from what I been listening to .


----------



## intlsubband

I'm expecting to get my Concerto in the next couple of days, bought for a really good price from a kind Head-Fier via the For Sale forum. Especially looking forward to listening to my W5000 and HD650 with it.
  
 My question is, does anyone have a clue at the output power on these? I've seen a table of output power per impedance for the Corda Classic, but I don't know if it's necessarily the same as the Concerto. Anyone here knows?


----------



## intlsubband

314stone said:


> For Skylab Jan has provided a couple years ago following info about the maximum output of Classic:
> 
> 
> At 600 Ohm: 160 mW / channel
> ...


 
  
 These are the figures I was referring to - would the output of the Concerto be similar?
  
 Thanks


----------



## Trey36

You should receive the user manual with the amp. If you do not receive the manual or a reply from this forum as the man who made it.


----------



## intlsubband

trey36 said:


> You should receive the user manual with the amp. If you do not receive the manual or a reply from this forum as the man who made it.


 
  
 Thanks, the seller didn't indicate whether or not the manual is included, I guess I'll know in the next few days...


----------



## Argo Duck

^ power is less than the Classic, but not by much. As well it is less warm but just as clean as the Classic, which helped it sound just as lively with my LCD2.

If you don't get the manual and if Jan can't provide a PDF, I should be able to find mine in a week or so. In the process of moving house right now...


----------



## SunTanScanMan

intlsubband said:


> I'm expecting to get my Concerto in the next couple of days, bought for a really good price from a kind Head-Fier via the For Sale forum. Especially looking forward to listening to my W5000 and HD650 with it.
> 
> My question is, does anyone have a clue at the output power on these? I've seen a table of output power per impedance for the Corda Classic, but I don't know if it's necessarily the same as the Concerto. Anyone here knows?


 
 Hey intlsubband,
 I would very much welcome your thoughts on how the W5000 pairs up with the Concerto. I nearly bought them this month, but decided on the W1000X instead. But I'm still interested in the W5000.
  
 Many thanks!


----------



## intlsubband

argo duck said:


> ^ power is less than the Classic, but not by much. As well it is less warm but just as clean as the Classic, which helped it sound just as lively with my LCD2.
> 
> If you don't get the manual and if Jan can't provide a PDF, I should be able to find mine in a week or so. In the process of moving house right now...


 
  
 Thanks! I'll let you know if I can't find it in other ways.
  


suntanscanman said:


> Hey intlsubband,
> I would very much welcome your thoughts on how the W5000 pairs up with the Concerto. I nearly bought them this month, but decided on the W1000X instead. But I'm still interested in the W5000.
> 
> Many thanks!


 
  
 Will do! Until I get the amp and will find the time for some proper listening, I'd expect to be able to write my impressions in about a week's time.


----------



## Argo Duck

Just a note that I recently had delivered to one of my work sites the new 'fazored' LCD3, my first experience with this phone. Not wanting to wait until I got home I took with me my iPod Classic and Meier Classic, these being the most 'portable' rig I could achieve at short notice.

My goodness, the Classic/LCD3 sounded superb, and from memory noticeably better than I get with the Classic/LCD2! Precise imaging and sound-staging, layering: it was all there. Obviously I expected a lot from the LCD3, but I _didn't_ expect to hear it all right then and there. Especially given the humble source.

When I got home I tried the BMC PureDAC's balanced and IIRC 'current-driven' hp out for comparison. Good, but not _as_ good. Since then I've tried my Decware Taboo as well. Not a direct A/B, but my impression is they're too close to pick a winner.

I'm very impressed how the Classic has scaled up with the LCD3, reputed to be much more amp-fussy than the LCD2. I fully endorse the review submitted in German early in this thread (and subsequently translated thankfully).

I think this illustrates how Jan's design philosophy - as he described it a page or two back in this thread - produces highly versatile products that scale and work well with many phones, where often other amps and DACs synergize with a somewhat narrow set of phones.

The view I've developed is that the LCD3 is the perfection of audez'e's original design goals for the LCD2 rev 1. The 3 achieves what the 2r1 was _trying_ to do. The 3 is a much more balanced, mature phone. Comparatively, the 2r1 reminds me of myself as a teenager - excellent in parts, brash and overdramatic and/or weak in others! 

Thus it's interesting that the Classic really 'works' with the LCD3 TME, whereas it's merely 'good' with the 2r1.


----------



## SunTanScanMan

Hey AiDee hope you're enjoying your music through Classic + LCD3. Your enthusiasm shows through your writing. I hope you're happy knowing that's yet another expensive headphone added to my wish list 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But in all seriousness, finding and listening to music also spending too much time on headfi.org has fast become a very enjoyable and all encompassing daily ritual for me with the new gear. I thought I would add to yours and a number of other's point on the qualities of the equipment.
  
 Comparing from my previous set up, I find the music from the meier equipment soothing - By which I do not mean it in the sense that it's warm and fuzzy. Out of curiosity, I went back to my previous set up for a while with my headphones and I have to say the music sounds great. I was a little surprised at first. What I was hearing was clean and well defined, and I was expecting a considerable fall in sound quality, which this was definitely NOT.
  
 However, when I switched back to the daccord and classic, what struck me was how hearing the same piece of music was so much more soothing, smooth and easier on the ears. In other words comfortable and very noticeably so. We mention 'neutrality' and 'clean sound' the the meier gear have, which from my readings in the headfi forums can also carry negative connotations, but from my experience of upgrading, it is definitely possible to have a neutral and at the same time a soothing character. 
  
 From my perspective, my headphone upgrades brought me more detail in what I was listening to and the meier dac and amp brought an upgrade to the refinement of how those details are presented to my ears. This has been my most recent revelation with the equipment. No doubt there will be more.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Nice notes and the soothing and refined quality _does_ make sense.

I reviewed Jan's _StageDAC_ against two others back in '11, and I've since compared privately and informally with two others. The StageDAC shows this refinement too. Nothing is exaggerated or under-done. It simply gets out of the way.

I'm sure it's already been said to you in your two months here but _welcome to headfi; sorry about your wallet!_.


----------



## SunTanScanMan

argo duck said:


> I'm sure it's already been said to you in your two months here but _welcome to headfi; sorry about your wallet!_.


 
 Ha ha - _Re: wallet_ - I think Jan may have said words to that effect when I was buying from him. But I believe you may be the first person on headfi to read me the motto. So your welcome is much appreciated


----------



## SunTanScanMan

intlsubband said:


> Thanks! I'll let you know if I can't find it in other ways.
> 
> 
> Will do! Until I get the amp and will find the time for some proper listening, I'd expect to be able to write my impressions in about a week's time.


 
  
 Quick nudge to see if you had a chance to share your thoughts on the  W5000 and your new amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No matter if not.


----------



## intlsubband

suntanscanman said:


> Quick nudge to see if you had a chance to share your thoughts on the  W5000 and your new amp
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the nudge! I didn't forget to write, I just didn't have a whole lot of time to spend with it given my work schedule.
  
 That being said, the little that I did get to use it on the W5000, I was very happy. This is the first time I feel like I'm starting to touch on the potential of these headphones. They really do need power, when I previously played them off portable amps and AV receivers they were not very impressive. But on the Concerto lots of small details seem to come to life.
  
 I still feel though that the bass is pretty subtle on the W5000 even when plugged to the Concerto on high gain, and for some reason the crossfeed button seems to make the bass a bit weaker, so in general I listen with the crossfeed off.
  
 Acoustic music and jazz sounds truly wonderful on the W5000 and the Concerto! I think that this is its main strength. but for rock, the Concerto and the HD650 is a true winning combo in my ears...


----------



## Argo Duck

IIRC cross feed does indeed reduce bass. There is compensation in the Classic and the two DACs but not the Concerto I think...


----------



## SunTanScanMan

intlsubband said:


> Thanks for the nudge! I didn't forget to write, I just didn't have a whole lot of time to spend with it given my work schedule.
> 
> That being said, the little that I did get to use it on the W5000, I was very happy. This is the first time I feel like I'm starting to touch on the potential of these headphones. They really do need power, when I previously played them off portable amps and AV receivers they were not very impressive. But on the Concerto lots of small details seem to come to life.
> 
> ...


 
 Many thanks for your thoughts during your busy schedule. Much appreciated.
 I'm still intrigued by W5000. I've heard and read opinions from both sides, but my music definitely tends to be towards the acoustic, classical and jazz. I do like the AT sound signature, so currently saving up for it. 
  
 I tend not to use the high gain on the Classic when I'm listening with the W1000X. It gets really loud quickly without it, when I start to turn the volume wheel. Also on some recordings, a background hiss is more apparent when the high gain is engaged, the degree to which varies according to the recordings. Only noticed this a few days ago. I think the output impedance of the Classic is very low, so I don't think it's the amp? Most of my music is through FLAC streaming service - it may be the bad recordings...


----------



## Shini44

i had Audio-gd Master 9 , i traded it  for Meier Classic + cash, i mainly listen to J-pop and i hate to lose Treble or Mids warth, the Meier is very Neutral and was a very nice combo with my X-Sabre  
  
 the reason why i did trade the Master 9 with this amp which worth nearly 900$ more than it is because the Master 9 is TOO revealing , and i listen to J-pop so it was a bad combo, in case i was listening to something else then the Master 9 would be a good amp for me.


 Glad that i have this amp , hard to believe that its only  750$ , using it atm with my CIEM, next week my TH900 will be here so i will see how does it sound on this amp.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ does the Master 9 have more treble?


----------



## Shini44

the right one to ask is Punit, the previous owner of the Meier Audo and the current owner of the Master 9, with my Flac J-pop i am the wrong one to ask, he is here on the thread , i think you  know him XD

 yet on my side i will say that i  didn't enjoy the Treble on a lot of tracks! even with the TH600, even the Pico Power was better for me, and i am a Treble head  yet also once again my collection is J-pop , so better not to ask me  yet i said how did  i feel about it.

 the Meier atm is doing way better for me on everything, which mean the problem was the revealing nature of the Master 9.


----------



## punit

No i wouldn't say it has that much more treble (maybe slightly more extension but its not bright), It is more dynamic, so if your source DAC or recording or HP is treble happy it will be in your face. But AGD gear are notorious for requiring around 500 hrs of burn in to settle down, so lets see how it goes.
  
 I love the Meier Classic but my very close friend also bought one after he heard mine with TH 900 (he immediately bought both the next day 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) & I have access to it anytime. So I decided to trade mine to try something new.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Thanks both


----------



## rasmushorn

Ahh - just bought a Classic. What a great amplifier. I tried to live without a desktop rig for some time but as soon as I got the Classic I knew how much I missed my old Concerto. Glad to have one again. The Meier amps really makes my T5p shine. I love that it has two inputs, that was something I missed on the Concerto.


----------



## intlsubband

rasmushorn said:


> Ahh - just bought a Classic. What a great amplifier. I tried to live without a desktop rig for some time but as soon as I got the Classic I knew how much I missed my old Concerto. Glad to have one again. The Meier amps really makes my T5p shine. I love that it has two inputs, that was something I missed on the Concerto.


 
  
 How would you say that the Classic compares to the Concerto? apart from the 2nd headphones input. I own and love the Concerto and am wondering if it's worth trying to upgrade to a Classic (or other amps).


----------



## rasmushorn

intlsubband said:


> How would you say that the Classic compares to the Concerto? apart from the 2nd headphones input. I own and love the Concerto and am wondering if it's worth trying to upgrade to a Classic (or other amps).


 
 It is some months since I sold the Concerto so I find it hard to give any direct comparison. But the first time I listened to the Classic I had a feeling that it sounded better than I remembered the Concerto. I felt that the Classic has more air and space and just a bit more rock-solid in the soundstaging and imaging. But whether it was because I had missed the sound so much or if it really is that much better is hard for me to say. 
  
 If you love your Concerto and just want to have a more refined version of the Concerto with more features, with a little bit better sound much like the Concerto and still an amplifier which gets out of the way and just plays the music as it is then the Classic is fully worth the upgrade. 
  
 If you like your Concerto then keep it!!!!! I should never have sold mine and you will probably not get a good price if you decide to sell it. They do not sell for much these days. I would have kept my Concerto and used it at my work office. But if someone is looking for a GREAT second hand amplifier a used Concerto is a bargain. I think I got my Classic at a good price too. I think I am the third owner but Jan Meiers gear never breaks apart in any way so I did not hesitate to buy a used one. 
  
 If you want to look at other amplifiers then you have to search for a long time and if you find anything sounding this good, in the same price range, I would like to know what you find  I have tried a lot of other amplifiers at several meets during the years, I even bought some and had to give them back to the dealer after comparing with the Concerto, but never found one in the same price range that could match the Concerto.


----------



## intlsubband

rasmushorn said:


> It is some months since I sold the Concerto so I find it hard to give any direct comparison. But the first time I listened to the Classic I had a feeling that it sounded better than I remembered the Concerto. I felt that the Classic has more air and space and just a bit more rock-solid in the soundstaging and imaging. But whether it was because I had missed the sound so much or if it really is that much better is hard for me to say.
> 
> If you love your Concerto and just want to have a more refined version of the Concerto with more features, with a little bit better sound much like the Concerto and still an amplifier which gets out of the way and just plays the music as it is then the Classic is fully worth the upgrade.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks heaps! when I started to really get into the head-fi business some months ago (I've been an avid headphones listener for all my life, but only now started to have enough spare money to buy amps, DACs, and proper headphones) I bought a Concerto in excellent condition of 350 AUD (~325$ US), and have been enjoying it with a range of headphones. I am really loving the sound! and I don't know if you can get a better used amp for that kind of money. I am definitely going to keep it.


----------



## Argo Duck

+1 good advice from rasmushorn


----------



## borrego

I have just received my repaired Corda Classic back from Jan today. I bought the amp used and got a ceramic capacitor blown the 2nd time I listened to it. It was great customer service from Jan who honored the warranty repair even I got the amp used.
  
 I am now listening to the 2013 Les Miserables movies OST with the portable DAP iBasso DX90 and the Yamaha HPH-MT220 now. Great sounding amp it is. Very close to a "wire with gain" with just the tiniest amount of sweetening. Low gain, no bass boost, 1st level crossfeed is the setting I use.


----------



## deniall83

Thoughts on Classic paired with Grado cans?


----------



## Theogenes

deniall83 said:


> Thoughts on Classic paired with Grado cans?




Ask me after September 20th


----------



## Suopermanni

Hey guys, has anyone heard the HiFiMan HE560 on the Classic? I am interested in buying the HE560 but I don't know if it will run to full effect on it.


----------



## intlsubband

suopermanni said:


> Hey guys, has anyone heard the HiFiMan HE560 on the Classic? I am interested in buying the HE560 but I don't know if it will run to full effect on it.


 
  
 Right now I'm listening to the HE-500 out of the Corda Concerto as I type and it sound marvellous. Before I bought the HE-500 I emailed Jan Meier and asked whether the Concerto is up to the task of driving planars. He assured me that it has plenty of power for most present-day planars - with the exception of the HE-6. I have to say he was absolutely right.
  
 The Classic is supposed to be very similar to the Concerto, but perhaps a bit more powerful if I'm not mistaken. So, while I haven't heard the pairing, theoretically there should be no problem at all for the classic to drive the 560. And if it's anything like the Concerto - HE-500 pairing, you're in for a treat.


----------



## Suopermanni

I've been lucky enough to hear the Classic with the HE500. I liked the pairing, especially with the Audiolab M-DAC I had at the time.


----------



## borrego

Corda Classic + HE-500 is exactly my setup. At my listening volume level I can use low gain with volume control set at 10:00 to 11:00 position. No worry for power.

It sounds very good and I am very satisfied.


----------



## Frank I

http://headphone.guru/meier-audio-corda-classic-daccord/
 those interested  Eric neff


----------



## rasmushorn

frank i said:


> http://headphone.guru/meier-audio-corda-classic-daccord/
> those interested  Eric neff


 
 Nice review and couldn't agree more. I have had Meiers gear for years and have yet to find better sound for the money. The perfect middle road. The best thing is that it has the best synergy with my favorite headphone brand - Beyerdynamic.


----------



## RazorJack

Nice review. Note how the stated cons have nothing to do with the actual sound quality, pretty typical for Meier Audio 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I can most definitely confirm that I received (very decent) power supply cables with all my purchases directly from Meier.


----------



## SunTanScanMan

Enjoyed reading the review Eric. I appreciate the fact that you make clear your preference to tubes.
  
 I use the HD650 with the Classic+Daccord combo too.
  
 I don't find much difference between the crossfeed of the Daccord and Classic. But the tonal balance feature (bass boost) of the Classic seems to have a stronger audible effect, making the music slightly more darker sounding.
  
 I didn't get power cords, but Jan explained that the UK power cord can be expensive and difficult to source in the mainland. Had some lying around from old PC power supplies. Cheap as chips to buy anyway.


----------



## longbowbbs

Glad you like the review guys. I sure had fun writing it. Jan was great to communicate with as well. I am a big "Value" guy and he really fills the bill. Great bang for the buck...(or Pound, etc..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )
  
 Eric


----------



## Argo Duck

Yep I put two and two together and figured it was you Eric 

Having as you know trod a similar path to you gear-wise I found myself nodding agreement throughout. Being _very_ familiar with Jan's products as well I agree completely about the VFM aspect and I'm very pleased to see a published review that gives him the credit he deserves. Jan is a very fine designer.

Andre


----------



## longbowbbs

Thanks Andre! I had fun at CanJam messing with the Summit Fi gear but most of us are not going to be buying that stuff. Jan makes gear that does a great job and you can actually own. In my mind it was a SS version of Decware.


----------



## Argo Duck

No need to remind me you were at CanJam and I wasn't Eric


----------



## longbowbbs

argo duck said:


> No need to remind me you were at CanJam and I wasn't Eric


----------



## LogicalDisconnect

Anyone compared the Daccord / Classic combo with the Schiit Gungnir (or Bifrost) / Mjolnir combo? Planning to get a pair of LCD-3Fs and looking for a good amp / DAC combo for them. I read the Schiit combo was very good with the pre-Fazor LCD-3s but not sure if it's so good with the Fazor version.


----------



## Argo Duck

I haven't heard the Mjolnir, but I have the Stagedac (Daccord predecessor) and Classic and the original Bifrost. FWIW here is a chain of impressions.

In a comparison review I did some 3 years ago I found the Stagedac more balanced, transparent and 'right' than either the Eastern Electric MiniMax (worst) or Bifrost (very good). Amps used were Meier Concerto, Schiit Lyr with the stock GE option and (briefly) the Stax Lambda Pro with stock energizer. Other hps used were Audez'e LCD2r1 and Beyerdynamic T1. I understand Daccord is a better Stagedac, and as I found it (slightly) better than Bifrost...

Recently I bought the LCD3F and was amazed how much better it matches the Classic than does the LCD2r1. Particularly noticeable is the excellent layering and very good sound-stage. This was true even with (very briefly) a humble iPod Classic 120 as the (analog!) source.

Worth noting, I usually pair the Classic with the BMC Puredac. This dac is a considerable improvement on even the Stagedac in terms of fine, low-level detail which continues right on into the bass. These are important attributes for any Audez'e, which repays every bit of quality it gets from the upstream chain in the bass and lower mids. Some of the reported attributes of the Gungnir do suggest it might be right up there with these important aspects of the puredac. _Provided_ the G/M combo matches well with fazors, I imagine it could be hard to beat.

OTOH, the Stagedac and Classic do everything well and nothing or very little wrong.

Note: The Classic usually plays "2nd fiddle" to my main amp, which is tube-based and cost twice as much. I find the Classic compares extremely well.


----------



## longbowbbs

argo duck said:


> I haven't heard the Mjolnir, but I have the Stagedac (Daccord predecessor) and Classic and the original Bifrost. FWIW here is a chain of impressions.
> 
> In a comparison review I did some 3 years ago I found the Stagedac more balanced, transparent and 'right' than either the Eastern Electric MiniMax (worst) or Bifrost (very good). Amps used were Meier Concerto, Schiit Lyr with the stock GE option and (briefly) the Stax Lambda Pro with stock energizer. Other hps used were Audez'e LCD2r1 and Beyerdynamic T1. I understand Daccord is a better Stagedac, and as I found it (slightly) better than Bifrost...
> 
> ...


 
 That PureDac is a sweetheart Andre. Nothing like nice toys to play with!


----------



## LogicalDisconnect

Thanks very much for the impressions! Sounds like the Daccord / Classic combo would probably be a good deal for the money, which accords with what I've read elsewhere. Schiit products are usually regarded as being good value for money too though so I guess it's hard to say which combo would be better without comparing. The PureDAC looks good but unfortunately can't get it in Australia.
  
 Interesting that you prefer tubes with the LCD-3 too. I had read solid state was usually preferred at least with the original LCD-3 but that this might have changed with the LCD-3F given the somewhat brighter sound.


----------



## Argo Duck

Indeed Eric. I intended to mention the puredac in the same light as your comparison with your DAC in your review. But that sentiment got lost in the struggle with the spell-checker (is it head-fi or my Mac ).

LogicalDisconnect I'm suspicious of the "SS is better with the LCD3" claim. As a statistician I'm bound to ask "where's the survey that established this?". I do know some head-fiers found this to be the case for them. It got announced and repeated and somehow the counter-findings from others got lost in the 'noise' of group chatter. Ah well.

Without doubt there are tube amps that are (a) syrupy and thick; (b) warm; (c) muddy in the bass. None of these 'qualities' suit Audez'es.

Other tube amps and/or tube options are not like this at all (e.g. Decware, Eddie Current). In my case, my tube amp is the best match I've heard with both the 2r1 and 3F (but interestingly needs a slightly different driver tube for each). OTOH I've heard one SS amp from an excellent brand that paired badly with my LCD2r1: slow, muddy bass and over-warm. To be fair the Violectric V100 was designed for dynamic hps and - for whatever reasons - I understand its bigger brothers the V181 and 200 (and new models introduced since) match much more successfully. 



longbowbbs said:


> That PureDac is a sweetheart Andre. Nothing like nice toys to play with!


----------



## LogicalDisconnect

Not saying I necessarily believe them! It's very difficult to separate the good impressions from the bad. And I've never had a tube amp myself so I can't really speak from experience. Which is the tube amp you're talking about by the way?


----------



## Sorrodje

argo duck said:


> Indeed Eric. I intended to mention the puredac in the same light as your comparison with your DAC in your review. But that sentiment got lost in the struggle with the spell-checker (is it head-fi or my Mac
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yup, there're too many misconceptions in the Tube vs SS debate. You can add Daniel North Stuff to the list of clean, fast, neutral and uncolored tube amp. 
  
 A few month ago I compared durings many weeks an old but  good tube amp ( MG Head Antique sound labs) and my Meier Corda Jazz. I was really surprised to find them so close.


----------



## Argo Duck

Decware Taboo mk II. Very responsive to different tubes. Can be made warm, neutral or cold as desired. Dynamic, transparent, and like Sorrodje says, "fast".

Every impression is valid; the conclusions drawn not so much maybe 

Sorrodje, that Jazz is seriously close to the Classic I read recently as well. I started thinking recently I seriously need one of Jan's portables!



logicaldisconnect said:


> Not saying I necessarily believe them! It's very difficult to separate the good impressions from the bad. And I've never had a tube amp myself so I can't really speak from experience. Which is the tube amp you're talking about by the way?


----------



## longbowbbs

I miss my Decware....But...You can't have all of them. Not enough time or room...


----------



## Jan Meier

Have you guys seen my November-specials?
  


 Jan


----------



## borrego

The HE-6 and Corda Classic combo is a very good deal!


----------



## Amictus

jan meier said:


> Have you guys seen my November-specials?
> 
> 
> 
> Jan


 
 Nooooooooo! Out of my way, everyone...


----------



## LogicalDisconnect

argo duck said:


> Decware Taboo mk II. Very responsive to different tubes. Can be made warm, neutral or cold as desired. Dynamic, transparent, and like Sorrodje says, "fast".
> 
> Every impression is valid; the conclusions drawn not so much maybe
> 
> ...


 
  
 I had the 2Stepdance and thought it was very good.
  
 I'm almost certain I'll be getting the Daccord / Classic and an LCD-3F now. Just confirming you think the Classic has enough power for the LCD-3F now that the impedance is 110 ohm? It looks like Audeze recommends 1 - 4 W to power it and from the specs posted in this thread the Classic would put somewhat less than 1 W into a 110 ohm impedance if my calculations are correct.


----------



## Argo Duck

Hi LD - it _definitely_ has enough power! I would have to reconnect it (have been testing a Lyr recently) but pretty sure I get levels high enough for me well before 12 o'clock. My normal listening level with non-classical material corresponds to around 76-78dBA pink noise. I notice no meaningful difference driving the LCD2r1 or LCD3F in terms of level with the Classic.

Btw, as jodgey (IIRC) has pointed out, the 3F's higher Z probably means Audez'e ought to revise their 1-4W recommendation. Downwards!


----------



## LogicalDisconnect

Thanks very much AiDee. I'll let everyone know how the LCD-3F and Meier stack go next week!


----------



## Argo Duck

Looking forward to your impressions :tongue_smile:


----------



## Avi

Looking forward as well.

I got hooked on the original Stepdance, and now I have a Jazz at work (running a DacportLX into my HE-500s) and the Daccord/Classic at home (with the Denon AH-D7000s). I see a HE-560 in my near future somehow. Alas, poor wallet, I knew thee well…


----------



## LogicalDisconnect

I got my Meier combo and the LCD-3F and have been listening for the past couple of days.

First thing I noticed about the Daccord and Classic was that the build quality is excellent. I like the plain black design, the finish is excellent and they are much smaller than I expected.

They also sound great. Very clean, clear and transparent sound. They drive the LCD-3F easily below 12-o'clock at high gain. The sound is very well controlled across the whole spectrum - it is not overly bright but treble detail is very good, bass extension is excellent and the mids are good. Basically it seems to present things as they should be. It seems to be a great setup for the price.

I would say it's the best setup I've heard, which I think is fairly high praise given the headphones I've had and tried before (owned Beyer T1, HE500, MS-Pro, K701, W3000ANV; tried HD800, TH900, Oppo PM-1).

Unfortunately my LCD-3, although sounding great, gives me a terrible headache after about 30 minutes because of the weight coupled with the headband design. Tried padding to no avail. At the end of the day I listen to music to relax and can't justify keeping them with the discomfort. So I'm going to have to try to sell them (store doesn't allow returns). And I've decided after all this frustration of trying to find something I like to take a break from full-size headphones so unfortunately the Meier stack is going too. Let me know if anyone's interested (I'm in Australia).


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Very sorry to hear this. Some people find they adjust to the unaccustomed weight of the LCDs within weeks. Just a thought in case it's something worth trying - you could always withdraw from sale if this works out.

Otherwise, good luck with whatever future steps you take.


----------



## borrego

logicaldisconnect said:


> I got my Meier combo and the LCD-3F and have been listening for the past couple of days.
> 
> First thing I noticed about the Daccord and Classic was that the build quality is excellent. I like the plain black design, the finish is excellent and they are much smaller than I expected.
> 
> They also sound great. Very clean, clear and transparent sound. They drive the LCD-3F easily below 12-o'clock at high gain. The sound is very well controlled across the whole spectrum - it is not overly bright but treble detail is very good, bass extension is excellent and the mids are good. Basically it seems to present things as they should be. It seems to be a great setup for the price.


 
  
 May I ask if the Daccord has variable output level? I use my Corda Classic with the Audio-gd NFB-1 to drive my HE-500, and I hardly have the volume knob set beyond 10 o'clock position at low gain.


----------



## Sorrodje

The DACCORD has two outputs : a fixed one and a variable one


----------



## LogicalDisconnect

That's right - it has a volume knob and variable output but also has a fixed output which you would use to plug in an amp like the Classic.


----------



## longbowbbs

borrego said:


> logicaldisconnect said:
> 
> 
> > I got my Meier combo and the LCD-3F and have been listening for the past couple of days.
> ...


 
 http://headphone.guru/meier-audio-corda-classic-daccord/


----------



## Avi

frank i said:


> http://headphone.guru/meier-audio-corda-classic-daccord/
> 
> 
> those interested  Eric neff



 


Very nicely written. My favorite line is probably: "The fact that I’m seriously comparing the two should shed light on how the Meier overperforms it’s pricepoint in a neutral and honest way."


----------



## longbowbbs

avi said:


> frank i said:
> 
> 
> > http://headphone.guru/meier-audio-corda-classic-daccord/
> ...


 
 Thanks Avi! The spread of cost vs performance is narrowing. This is a good thing!


----------



## SunTanScanMan

I purchased 100ohm and 75ohm resistor adaptors from ebay after reading the recent innerfidelity article. Received word that they should arrive soon. It was an interesting article, and at least for me it was new information, as I was under the understanding that low output impedance was the ideal setting for amps. I think a shorter and simpler version of article is on the Meier homepage which I'd not read before.
 I am hoping to try the 100ohm with the T1. I fear the 75ohm resistor will be too high for the 42ohm audio-technicas (they seem to have pretty flat impedance curves), but we'll see.
  
 Just wondering whether other Classic owners have experimented with this.
  
_ps. speaking of learning new things - this from the O2 +ODAC thread regarding software volume settings, that the optimum setting should be a notch below 100%. Changed my settings accordingly._


----------



## Theogenes

Potentially great deal for our British brethren.
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Meier-Audio-Corda-Concerto-Headphone-Amp-Amplifier-/251794399801?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers&hash=item3aa01da239
  
 Not affiliated in any way. Wish it was in US!


----------



## Sorefoot19

I've been looking for a SS amp/dac combo to go with my Lyr/Bifrost set up.  I've whittled it down to two choices at the same price point.  It will be either the Meier Corda Classic/Daccord combo, or the Oppo HA-1.
  
 My current major cans include the HE-500, T1, HD600, Alpha Dog and Phillips Fidelio X2.  I am wondering if anyone has heard both, and what impressions they may have.  I like the Oppo combo mostly because it's the only Amp/Dac I've seen with a direct USB port that can be used with an IOS device.  I often dump my complete iTunes files onto an iPod Classic, and this is a really easy way to plug into a good amp/dac.  However, I'm not crazy about Sabre dacs, and have heard the Oppo can be quite bright - annoyingly so.
  
 Any thoughts would be appreciated.  Since both price out at about $1200 USD, it's a hard choice.  Thanks.


----------



## intlsubband

sorefoot19 said:


> I've been looking for a SS amp/dac combo to go with my Lyr/Bifrost set up.  I've whittled it down to two choices at the same price point.  It will be either the Meier Corda Classic/Daccord combo, or the Oppo HA-1.
> 
> My current major cans include the HE-500, T1, HD600, Alpha Dog and Phillips Fidelio X2.  I am wondering if anyone has heard both, and what impressions they may have.  I like the Oppo combo mostly because it's the only Amp/Dac I've seen with a direct USB port that can be used with an IOS device.  I often dump my complete iTunes files onto an iPod Classic, and this is a really easy way to plug into a good amp/dac.  However, I'm not crazy about Sabre dacs, and have heard the Oppo can be quite bright - annoyingly so.
> 
> Any thoughts would be appreciated.  Since both price out at about $1200 USD, it's a hard choice.  Thanks.


 
  
  
 First thing is, I've never had a chance to hear the Oppo, so I have no idea how it compares. I am using the Corda Classic (with a DAC from a different manufacturer), mostly with my HE-500 but occasionally with my HD-650 and Mad Dogs 3.2 as well - and I absolutely love it. It's a fantastic amp for those phones. I would not hesitate to get it.
  
 Another tip I have for you is, don't buy new. Because the Meier stack has been in the market for a few years now, they pop in the For Sale section every now and again, and you can get them for half the price, or even less. I got the Classic for well under $400 in that way. Given that the Oppo is newer, you'll see less of these for sale, and those that will go would be closer to retail compared with 2nd hand Meier gear.
  
 Also - re-ipod classic - I used to use an Onkyo ND-S1 transport connected to the DAC. It takes the data out of your ipod and sends it straight to the DAC by either coax or optical, and has a video out and USB in as well. I'm selling mine since I changed from ipod to a DX-90.
  
 Best of luck with your search!


----------



## Sorrodje

Buying used is often a good idea but I think Jan Meier's products are amongst the rare ones I easily advice tto buy new.  Jan is an honest and Kind Guy to deal with and I don't think he fools us with his prices. Moreover the value of Meier products is really that good. even if we buy new.
  
 We should reward such craftmen


----------



## Argo Duck

^ +1


----------



## plakat

sorrodje said:


> Buying used is often a good idea but I think Jan Meier's products are amongst the rare ones I easily advice tto buy new.  Jan is an honest and Kind Guy to deal with and I don't think he fools us with his prices. Moreover the value of Meier products is really that good. even if we buy new.
> 
> We should reward such craftmen


 

 Very true. They are very high value even at list price.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

plakat said:


> Very true. They are very high value even at list price.




Does anyone know the specs for the Classic? How much mw can it put into 50ish ohms and 300 ohms. Im on the hunt for an SS amp for my HE-500. This and Lake People G109 are high on the list, as well as the A-GD NFB-28. Im finding the appearance of the Meier seductive.


----------



## SunTanScanMan

liu junyuan said:


> Does anyone know the specs for the Classic? How much mw can it put into 50ish ohms and 300 ohms. Im on the hunt for an SS amp for my HE-500. This and Lake People G109 are high on the list, as well as the A-GD NFB-28. Im finding the appearance of the Meier seductive.


 

Skylab's review of the Classic had some details on power output:
  
_Quote:_
  
 The Classic, like many solid state amps, outputs significantly more power into low impedance loads than high impedance ones.  Jan provided me the following information:
  

Maximum output current: 500 mA / channel
Maximum gain factor: 4,9 x (+14 dB)
With a source signal of 2V rms the limiting factor normally is the gain factor. Maximum output voltage becomes 9,8 V rms.
At 600 Ohm: 160 mW / channel
At 300 Ohm: 320 mW / channel
At 50 Ohm: 1.9 W / channel
At 30 Ohm: 3.2 W / channel


----------



## Liu Junyuan

suntanscanman said:


> Skylab's review of the Classic had some details on power output:
> 
> _Quote:_
> 
> ...


This amp looks wonderful for planars. It would be a nice setup to have beside a separate tube amp for higher impedance cans as well. 

I am curious how this can be ideal for pairing with T1, as many write on that thread.


----------



## plakat

liu junyuan said:


> This amp looks wonderful for planars. It would be a nice setup to have beside a separate tube amp for higher impedance cans as well.
> 
> I am curious how this can be ideal for pairing with T1, as many write on that thread.


 

 I know Jan used the T1 when tunig his amp. The Classic does deliver what the T1 needs, so the basic level of electrical needs is fulfilled so to say.
 Yes, the Classic has quite some power, especially with low impedance headphones... but that does not make is less suitable for the T1 (which is rated at 170mW Pmax if I remember correctly).
  
 But besides electrical compatibility... if at all possible test it out. It simply fits.


----------



## Sorrodje

If the Classic is like the Jazz, It sounds good with everything from IEMs to planars. Very versatile amp.


----------



## Argo Duck

^^ Thoroughly endorse plakat and Sorrodje's posts above.

The Classic is wonderful with both the T1 (300R) and LCD3F (110R), and very good with my (darkish, more intimate) LCD2 rev 1 (50R).

The idea of using it alongside a tube amp is not a bad one. My Classic sits alongside a pair of high-quality (Decware) tube amps. The Decwares give sound-tailoring options and the Classic keeps them honest because even from tubes I prefer a clean, neutral-leaning sound. These days I would say there are subtle but complementary differences in strengths. Others - who tune less neutrally than me - might find greater differences.


----------



## Sorrodje

Yep. When I had the Corda Jazz , I used it as a reference for neutrality while I was rolling my tubes on another amp .
  
 Maybe one day ,I'll wake up and understand that upgraditis is audiofoolery and I'll go back to a full Meier Stack and forget Head-fi.


----------



## longbowbbs

argo duck said:


> ^^ Thoroughly endorse plakat and Sorrodje's posts above.
> 
> The Classic is wonderful with both the T1 (300R) and LCD3F (110R), and very good with my (darkish, more intimate) LCD2 rev 1 (50R).
> 
> The idea of using it alongside a tube amp is not a bad one. My Classic sits alongside a pair of high-quality (Decware) tube amps. The Decwares give sound-tailoring options and the Classic keeps them honest because even from tubes I prefer a clean, neutral-leaning sound. These days I would say there are subtle but complementary differences in strengths. Others - who tune less neutrally than me - might find greater differences.


 
 Andre, Jan said the best word for his gear was "Honest". You nailed it.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Forget headfi :eek:

But honestly, I think my stack is almost done and I'll retire soon from head-fi a happier listener


----------



## Argo Duck

Hey Eric, good to see you're still monitoring this thread! Yep, Jan just makes great gear 



longbowbbs said:


> Andre, Jan said the best word for his gear was "Honest". You nailed it.


----------



## SunTanScanMan

+1 on versatility, at least with the headphones I own. I have to say that having experimented with a 100ohm resistor with the T1, I have stuck with that as a preference.

 When I was researching for an amp to go with the T1, I also considered the Lake People products. They seem to be well regarded, specs and price look good too. Stumbling into this thread, and the meier sale with the T1 at the time swayed me. No regrets.
  
 I'm also curious about tube amps, but not enough to go and buy one. Think I'm pretty set with the current rig, and I'm thankful. I want to keep things simple with a neutral amp... I've even been feeling recently 4 headphones is excessive, and thinking of whittling down my headphone collection.


----------



## SunTanScanMan

I still peruse equipment threads from time to time, but music threads are what excite me now on these forums.
  
 There are some GREAT music threads where I've discovered, learnt and enjoyed a great deal of new music ,some from genres which I would not have otherwise approached. This gear gets me there.


----------



## Sorrodje

I had the LP G103. Sold it quickly.  I much much prefer the Corda Jazz .  I Still have (expensive) things to try in my HD800 rig but as soon as I'll be done with it , I'll buy a Meier Classic for a secondary universal rig  to play with different headphones.  I haven't explored too much the Planars thus far.


----------



## longbowbbs

argo duck said:


> Hey Eric, good to see you're still monitoring this thread! Yep, Jan just makes great gear
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I still get around!


----------



## intlsubband

I too have no desire to upgrade from the Classic.
  
 Maybe I'll consider it only when Jan Meier introduces a new amp!


----------



## Avi

sorrodje said:


> Yep. When I had the Corda Jazz , I used it as a reference for neutrality while I was rolling my tubes on another amp .
> 
> Maybe one day ,I'll wake up and understand that upgraditis is audiofoolery and I'll go back to a full Meier Stack and forget Head-fi.


 
 Or you could do what I did, and fulfill your audiofoolery by adding a Classic to your Jazz. Jazz at work , Classic at home (not risking the Classic at work!).


----------



## rasmushorn

sorrodje said:


> Yep. When I had the Corda Jazz , I used it as a reference for neutrality while I was rolling my tubes on another amp .
> 
> Maybe one day ,I'll wake up and understand that upgraditis is audiofoolery and I'll go back to a full Meier Stack and forget Head-fi.


 
 Just because you go to a full Meier stack doesn't mean you can forget about Head-fi.  I changed my Stagedac+Concerto to get the Daccord+Classic so upgraditis will keep getting back to you every time Jan produces a new model 
  
 And speaking of reference. The good thing about the Meier amps is that they make a much better core of my system allowing me to experiment with more headphones and IEM's because I know that the source and amp are neutral. The only headphones I have found that does not pair that well with Jans desktop amps are Grados. But Grados somehow sound better using my Quickstep than Classic.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ True about grados. I enjoy them more straight out of an ipod or out of a cheap Little Dot Hybrid 1 than any of my other amps.

Interesting to hear the Quickstep is a better match.


----------



## bobaroo

Does anyone have thoughts as to how the Classic would perform with Mr Speakers Alpha prime? I currently own the Meier Corda Arietta and was told it might not have quite enough power. I assumed the classic has more power.
  
 Thanks Bob


----------



## Argo Duck

Have never heard Alphas but for sure the Classic has _much_ more power than the Arietta.


----------



## bobaroo

Are there any Meier dealers in the US?


----------



## Avi

I don't think so, and why should there be? Dr. Meier is a pleasure to deal with and I'd rather he get all of the money then either some of it going to a middleman or his having to raise his (very reasonable) prices to break even.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Yes I agree. I buy direct from Jan from a small nation in the south pacific. He makes purchase very easy and does his best to keep costs to a minimum.

Of course this does not address the original question of Classic + Alpha Prime as a match...


----------



## Suopermanni

Has anyone tried OPamp rolling with the Classic? I heard some users earlier perhaps trying it out earlier but I don't remember seeing much about results? Also, has anyone tried contacting Meier Audio in the last few days?


----------



## knowhatimean

suopermanni said:


> Has anyone tried OPamp rolling with the Classic? I heard some users earlier perhaps trying it out earlier but I don't remember seeing much about results? Also, has anyone tried contacting Meier Audio in the last few days?


 
 It appears Meier was closed for a few days , but is now back up for business. I had e-mailed an inquiry about the current USD
 price of the Classic the day before yesterday & Jan return emailed me yesterday !


----------



## Flea Bag

knowhatimean said:


> It appears Meier was closed for a few days , but is now back up for business. I had e-mailed an inquiry about the current USD
> price of the Classic the day before yesterday & Jan return emailed me yesterday !


 
  
  
 Bump! I'd like to know too... Considering the Classic as an upgrade to my old Prehead1 MkII and saw some op-amp sockets at Meier product webpage!


----------



## knowhatimean

flea bag said:


> knowhatimean said:
> 
> 
> > It appears Meier was closed for a few days , but is now back up for business. I had e-mailed an inquiry about the current USD
> ...


 
 For some reason I didn't realize I forgot to post the USD price that Jan quoted to me. The Classic is now $552 (which is very reasonable, considering the sophisticated volume control alone)
  
 I better clam up, before Jan reconsiders what he's asking for the Classic (because some "knucklehead" even mentioned this to
 him in his return email)


----------



## Suopermanni

Looks like Jan is updating his range of amps and dacs!


----------



## SunTanScanMan

I'll wait for more detail on the frequency adaptive feedback technology.


----------



## Richter Di

suntanscanman said:


> I'll wait for more detail on the frequency adaptive feedback technology.



Maybe I can add some information. Several weeks ago Jan Meier stopped by at my home. Over the years our relation has grown from headphone addict to developer to a friendship. So when Jan is on his way from Erlangen (Germany) to the Netherlands, he sometimes stops by for some hours which we truly enjoy. Sometimes he has some luggage with him like new developments he is working on. So one of the last times he brought his DAC and his Corda Classic with him and we fed it with the digital output out of my Audionet CD player. He told me that with one of the switches I could listen in to a new circuit. This new circuit, now called frequency adaptive feedback, was build in the DAC and in the Corda Classic. So with one switch I could change between old and new circuit in the DAC and with another switch in the Corda Classic. 

Interestingly Jan did not tell me which switch did what or what too expect, so listening in the two devices was completely blind. I took my Sennheiser HD 800's and listend with my favorite music for testing audio equipment: Chesky Ultlimate Demonstration Disc, Youngblood Brass Band - center level roar, Bach Goldberg-Variationen Bwv 988 for violine (Mischa Maisky, Julian Rachlin, Imai Nobuko89) and David Munyon "Four wild horses".

After going back and forth I found that one of the switch positions was much better. I had no chance to discuss this with Jan during the 1.5 hour I was testing, since he was hanging out with my family and I was alone. 
The difference was very clear and very audible.
While I tested between the headphone amp and the DAC I found that the difference was stronger for the amp and while still clearly better, less extreme for the DAC. As Jan explained to me later the DAC has less amplification stages and therefore the effect overall is smaller.

I have owned a lot of gear and still own some, like for example amps like the CEC HD53N, the Lehmann Linear with SSC feet and a Music Hi-Fi tube amp. But I was surprised that I have not heard some of the songs in that quality.

There where two distinct moments where I was surprised listening in my music. 

1. At the beginning of the center level roar CD of the Youngblood Brass Band, in the intro "To Come Together" there is a rap with only some brass and a drum. The rap is recorded comparably quietly and you should not turn the volume up too much, since you would get a shock when the the second song starts with full force. Exact position of the rapper and size of the person were always a bit unclear. With the new circuit, it was suddenly so clear where he stood. He also wasn't just a voice but he kind of became a person.

2. At the beginning of David Munyon's "Four Wild Horses" there is something like a dark sound of a gong (I believe). While the sound is and was mysterious I never had heard so much from it. It became with the new circuit clearer and more tangible.

These are two examples out of many, where it was immediately clear Jan had improved something dramatical. Overall I had the feeling like the fog had lifted.

While listening I started to become unsure why my music sounded so much better. Did I just had a golden ear day? Was it different since I listened to my music at a normal volume while I usualy listen to my music at very low volumes during night time.
So I turned on my Music Hi-Fi amp (which I was using for the last year) and fed it with the analog signal from my Audionet Art G2 CD-player (https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A//www.audio.de/testbericht/audionet-art-g2-328714.html). What a shock. I couldn't believe how bad it sounded in direct comparison. It was like going back a lot. And believe me, I have owned so many configurations and was thinking I had reached my audio heaven, which is the reason I am not so active any longer in the forum world.

Anyhow, I asked Jan if he could build this "modification" into his DAC and amp and sell me one and he agreed. So now the Jan Meier dream team is working in my home and I am very happy with it.

Two surprises I had since I own the configuration:
Although Jan does not advertise it, you can use the DAC with the iPad together with the Apple camera kit. I am even not sure if he was aware of it. 
2. While I buy some high-res stuff myself, I was surprised how great my Qobuz MP3 320 kbps streaming sounds no matter if I use my laptop or my iPad.

So overall, I am surprised what a difference this new frequency adaptive feedback makes and I can fully recommend this new amp.


----------



## SunTanScanMan

@Richter Di thanks for your detailed impressions. Much appreciated. It certainly sounds like an interesting upgrade! So you must be one of the few or even the only owner with the upgraded Classic and Daccord?

 I'm waiting for the Meier website page to be updated on the matter, I'm curious specifically on the technical side. Then I will have consider what to do. The stock dac and amp already sounds great, so in a way I'm not too bothered about whether I upgrade now or further down the line.

 Thanks again!


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## knowhatimean

The "freq. adaptive fb tech" sounds very interesting & should appeal to anyone who has been building their music playback system toward having more insight of the "Micro" detail that exists in the music they listen to. The "Macro"side of musical detail very rarely needs to be emphasized in other than misbalanced playback systems !
  
 I like the concept of placing this circuit in the amplifiication stage. I think when functions additional to converting the digital stream to an analog output are added to DACs there's an increased risk of adding Colorations (that may or may not be needed;& if they are learn how to buy better recordings) to the music.
  
 I think Headphone Amp/DACs are a bad idea for the fact they operate with a dual identity that really doesn't allow either section to work as well as they could individually !


----------



## Jan Meier

Dear head-fellows,
  
 just a note that a short explanation on the FF-technology now can be found at my website.
  
 A direct link: http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/fftechnology.htm
  
 Enjoy reading,
  
 Jan


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## rasmushorn

jan meier said:


> Dear head-fellows,
> 
> just a note that a short explanation on the FF-technology now can be found at my website.
> 
> ...


 

 Sure sounds very interesting. I am going to send my units for the upgrade as soon as my vacation is over. No hesitation from my side.


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## RazorJack

Hmm.. I am still not quite convinced, as I am a firm "believer" of sound science.
  


> There is a reason why 24-bit recordings do sound better than 16-bit recordings. High frequency components are much better represented!!


 
  
 There is, to my knowledge, still no evidence that 24 bit recordings sound any better than Redbook. If this whole _ff_ circuit is based on that notion, then I do not think it is for me.


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## olivierpe

Just bought a Corda Classic amp with FF-Technolgy inside, and I can't tell if this is better or not than the previous model as I did not owned it, but I can say that it's a very nice amp with my HD800 and my LCD-X. I wonder if I would purchase the DAC also or stay with my Cambridge Azur 851C so... it's difficult for me to figure what can be the real difference... I have absolutely no doubt that Jan makes a very very serious and honnest work on his material, but I have to say that I'm not so sensible to differences between good DACs (while differences between a bad one and a serious one is very clear).


----------



## knowhatimean

razorjack said:


> Hmm.. I am still not quite convinced, as I am a firm "believer" of sound science.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I
I think whether you notice a difference between 16bit & 24bit recordings is going to depend on how dynamically 
rich the music you generally listen to is, to begin with ! 

There are entire genres of music that really don't have enough dynamic contrast for the increase in musical
micro detail to be that noticeable. Well recorded Orchestral music or other types of acoustic music have a huge
capacity for the ambient cues that tell you when notes start or stop. I will go as far to say that well done 24 bit
recordings can sound even more detailed than DSD can sound !

This is not to say that very good recordings don't exist in all formats, but having more available dynamic "headroom" never hurts when a lot of contrasts exist in the music ! Does 24bit always sound more detailed ?
Only if there was enough relevant musical detail to begin with (& if the recording team was talented enough to know how to capture it)


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## Jan Meier

Dear KnowwhatImean
  
 quote:


knowhatimean said:


> I think whether you notice a difference between 16bit & 24bit recordings is going to depend on how dynamically
> rich the music you generally listen to is, to begin with !


 
  
 I fully agree.
  
 Personally I mainly listen to classical music and the dynamic range of this kind of music can be very large. For me e.g good old vinyl therefore is no real option. In the pianissimo-sections you will always hear the rumble and other  imperfections of the grooves. And unfortunately my ears don't have a built-in noise-filter.
  
 However, I have to admit that differences between 16 bit and 24 bit recordings are not really very large. I might have exagerated a little bit. If I remember correctly, studies have shown that with certain recordings people can hear differences upto around 20 bit.
   


  
 Jan


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## knowhatimean

Jan, thanks for your comment. In retrospect, I also am not completely sure that there might not be some other more important factors other than bit allocation that make some recordings more detailed sounding than others. Generally speaking though higher frequencies having a much quicker rate of decay then longer wave lower frequencies normally benefit from any amplitude help then can get in recorded music !

Funny, you should mention some of the distortion that shows up on Vinyl Orchestral recordings, as some of the same distortion shows up in some of the same places on some of my "The Decca Sound" CDs they did in the LPs. True the groove to stylus interface will always play some havoc on things,but In many cases it sounds to me that the microphones were overloaded due were they were placed during the recording.! I really enjoy the Front Row perspective that was employed in the RCA,Mercury, Decca, recordings & often wondered whether this perspective was abandoned because of complaints of these momentary distortions. It's kind of a shame that the technology to avoid these problems didn't exist at the time.& that most playback equipment wasn't advanced enough for most people to be able to hear how amazing these recordings actually were !

Sorry to bend everyone's ear . Have a great day !


----------



## Jan Meier

Dear KnowwhatImean,
  
 Quote:


> In retrospect, I also am not completely sure that there might not be some other more important factors other than bit allocation that make some recordings more detailed sounding than others.


  
 Well, most important is the mastering of course. How well did the sound-engineer do his job! I do have SACD's that sound terrible and have many CD's that sound very good. Actually, to enjoy music the CD is more than adequate. I have around 3000 of them and never felt any need to go into high-resolution PC-audio for my personal needs. People often forget that it's the music that really counts!!
  
 Unfortunately many modern recordings are mastered "flat", with all the dynamics removed. The loudness-war!! I have three different masterings of "Brothers in Arms" from 1985, 1996, and 2005. Guess which one sounds best!?
  


> True the groove to stylus interface will always play some havoc on things,but In many cases it sounds to me that the microphones were overloaded due were they were placed during the recording.


  
 Most likely the recording-tape got saturated!
  


> ! I really enjoy the Front Row perspective that was employed in the RCA,Mercury, Decca, recordings & often wondered whether this perspective was abandoned because of complaints of these momentary distortions.


  
 Different times, different tastes!
  
 Enjoy your music,
  
 Jan


----------



## RazorJack

I am still not sure about any evidence about the benefits of >Redbook discussion, but as a music lover first and foremost it's probably best to leave the science out of the Science forums here on Head-Fi. Here's to agreeing to disagree 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Despite having somewhat of a technical background and well aware of the limitations, vinyl is my primary choice for serious listening sessions, and I do most of my music enjoyment throughout the day with compressed online streams


----------



## dancho

I just bought the Classic-ff and have been very pleased with it. I did not do any direct comparisons with other amps; therefore, I won't comment on the audio quality.
  
 I am really enjoying the crossfeed function on this unit as it is helping to negate some of my hearing disability. I have moderate single sided hearing loss in my left ear and the crossfeed is helping me to hear things that I would otherwise not be able to notice. I can now hear those sounds in my right ear, but I can still tell that the sound is coming from my left side. Sounds that normally come from a single channel are now heard from both channels, but stereo/directional-hearing is still maintained.
  
 I find crossfeed to be a much better alternative to mono listening, as with mono there is the loss of directional hearing and also the potential for the loss of information.
  
 I went ahead and opened the unit up and changed the jumper position to increase the amount of crossfeed provided. I also changed the balance on my PC audio-out to lower the volume in my good ear and set the volume to max on my bad ear.
  
 I definitely recommend this unit (or the non-ff version) to anyone with minor to moderate hearing loss in one ear, and anyone looking for a hardware-based crossfeed. For people with more severe hearing loss, I would recommend sticking with a software crossfeed solution.
  
 Ordering from Meier through email was straightforward and he was quick to respond. Shipping to the USA was slow (2 weeks) but that's to be expected.


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## riverlethe

I just got my used Classic from another Head-fier.  I believe Dr. Meier is a wizard.


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## riverlethe

I think this is the first time I've actually been impressed with a headphone amp.


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## riverlethe

Is it normal to hear a few popping noises in the headphones throughout the travel of the volume pot? I'm worried about the longevity of the relays.


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## Shoggy

riverlethe said:


> Is it normal to hear a few popping noises in the headphones throughout the travel of the volume pot? I'm worried about the longevity of the relays.


 

 I own the JAZZ which also uses an AD-converter for the volume potentiometer and can hear silent "ticks" when changing the volume. I only notice them at higher volumes and when no music is playing.
  
 In my opinion it is normal and nothing to worry about. Each change from one volume step to another causes this sound.


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## SunTanScanMan

riverlethe said:


> Is it normal to hear a few popping noises in the headphones throughout the travel of the volume pot? I'm worried about the longevity of the relays.


 

 I asked Jan this same question a while back after I purchased my Classic. I get the popping noises through the headphones around the 8, 10 and 12 o'clock mark on the volume wheel. More apparent with my sensitive headphones. He informed me it was perfectly normal and the noises were caused by the switching of the relais that set the volume.

 Welcome to the club btw!


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## riverlethe

suntanscanman said:


> I asked Jan this same question a while back after I purchased my Classic. I get the popping noises through the headphones around the 8, 10 and 12 o'clock mark on the volume wheel. More apparent with my sensitive headphones. He informed me it was perfectly normal and the noises were caused by the switching of the relais that set the volume.
> 
> 
> Welcome to the club btw!




Thanks! Apparently, "average" electromechanical relays have a life expectancy of around 1 million on/off cycles, so it shouldn't be much of a problem in this application...


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## Allanmarcus

Anyone tried an Ether or Ether-C with the Jazz or the Classic?


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## Liu Junyuan

Can we also get an update on which version of the amp owners would recommend, the default Jazz or the upgraded version, after they have had time with the newest upgrade?


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## Shoggy

liu junyuan said:


> Can we also get an update on which version of the amp owners would recommend, the default Jazz or the upgraded version, after they have had time with the newest upgrade?


 

 Take a look at this post. I would get the upgraded version right from the start. Especially if you plan to get the amp as a long term investment I would not try to save some money at the wrong end.


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## Argo Duck

^ I am inclined to agree. Haven't heard the _ff_ circuitry yet but have had lots of experience over many years with Jan Meier's products. He is not in the habit of introducing 'upgrades' which make no difference.

Anyway, I plan to find out for myself in a few months when I send in my Classic for the revision.


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## rasmushorn

argo duck said:


> ^ I am inclined to agree. Haven't heard the _ff_ circuitry yet but have had lots of experience over many years with Jan Meier's products. He is not in the habit of introducing 'upgrades' which make no difference.
> 
> Anyway, I plan to find out for myself in a few months when I send in my Classic for the revision.


 

 I agree. Though some people do prefer the sound of the original to the ff-upgrades on the Classic and Daccord, I think there is a more refined and natural sound to the ff-versions. At least the difference to my ears is just a little bit more audible than what happens when turning crossfeed on and off. Once used to it, you do not really notice it until you turn it off, something is lacking. The ff-upgrade is maybe a bit more noticeable than crossfeed on / off. I spend a lot of time at a meet with my old original Classic+Daccord and compared it to the ff-versions. With Beyerdynamic T1 it was hard to me to tell the differences (at a noisy meet) but with HD800 the ff-versions were the winner. Jan told me that with the Jazz, the difference between original Jazz and ff-version, is the more audible upgrade. 
  
 I ended up getting the upgrade and I do not regret it. With my bright Beyerdynamic T5p (which I did not try at the meet) there is a much more pleasurable treble. Same high resolution but just more balanced and natural than the original Classic+Daccord. It is like everything is less clinical but with the same or maybe even more details. I would not hesitate getting the ff-versions if I was going to buy a new Meier amplifier.


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## Allanmarcus

Hi. I just purchased a used Classic and Daccord. I'm excited. My son asked me a question that I don't know the answer to, so I'm hoping you can help. What is the advantage to using the hardware crossfeed on the Meier equipment as opposed to using a DSP software plug in in the media player?


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## plakat

It's a bit of a philosophical choice, but Jans implementation is tastefully tuned with a lot of experience and done in the analog domain, which, in my opinion, offers less non-harmonic artifacts.
Overall crossfeed is not an effect, but a rather subtle help for the brain to compensate the problem of strict channel separation. In the end you would have to listen for quite some time and see which version helps you more. It's normally not the one that springs out at first listen though.


----------



## knowhatimean

I think doing things in the Analog domain is the more "effective" way to do things, particularly due to the fact
that at this point the signal is already in that domain.

If I'm not mistaken the Classic & Jazz are strictly Headphone Amps ( not a hp amp w// DAC or as I like to call those "a mess")


----------



## Allanmarcus

knowhatimean said:


> I think doing things in the Analog domain is the more "effective" way to do things, particularly due to the fact
> that at this point the signal is already in that domain.
> 
> If I'm not mistaken the Classic & Jazz are strictly Headphone Amps ( not a hp amp w// DAC or as I like to call those "a mess")




Correct. Those two are amps. The daccord / classic combo is a DAC/amp combo.


----------



## SunTanScanMan

Just on the topic of the crossfeed with the Classic/Daccord combo - Do you guys have them implemented on both units or just one? I have settled with using the highest tonal balance and crossfeed on the Daccord.

 I don't hear much difference between the crossfeed in the two devices. But the tonal balance on the Classic seems slightly stronger, making the sound darker. I preferred the Daccord's as a result.
  
 Would be interested to hear other owners' thoughts. There is quite a possibility that my impressions are inaccurate/imagined.


----------



## knowhatimean

allanmarcus said:


> knowhatimean said:
> 
> 
> > I think doing things in the Analog domain is the more "effective" way to do things, particularly due to the fact
> ...


 He,he,he...That was more of a rhetorical question & more or less a clarification why a Crossfeed DSP pluggin wouldn't be necessaryor preferable 

Sorry I wasn't being clear ,


----------



## Allanmarcus

suntanscanman said:


> Just on the topic of the crossfeed with the Classic/Daccord combo - Do you guys have them implemented on both units or just one? I have settled with using the highest tonal balance and crossfeed on the Daccord.
> 
> I don't hear much difference between the crossfeed in the two devices. But the tonal balance on the Classic seems slightly stronger, making the sound darker. I preferred the Daccord's as a result.
> 
> Would be interested to hear other owners' thoughts. There is quite a possibility that my impressions are inaccurate/imagined.


 

 I read the whole thread on a plane yesterday, so I do know there was some discussion of this a few pages back. From what I recall, some keep it high on the DAC and low on the amp. Others are different. Of course there is no "right" setting. You just have experiment to see what works best for you for the music you are listening to.


----------



## Kornasteniker

Hi Corda Classic Owners!
  
 As I'm currently searching for a new headphone amp for my lineup of headphones and earphones, I stumbled upon this beauty of an amp during my research. 
 The question is now, which one, ff or non-ff, would you prefer for a great variety of genres, inkluding Jazz, Electropop, Electronica, Metal and a bit of classical music?
  
 My currently used headphones are as follows: AKG K702, Audeze LCD-2F, Beyerdynamic DT880 600 Ohm, Audiofly AF160 and Ultimate Ears UE900. (from most to least used)
  
 I was in correspondence with Jan Meier before and he told me, if I'm listening to more classical music and Jazz he personally would prefer the ff. If I'm listening to Pop or electronic music to, he said that the normal version would fit better due to a harder reproduction of the music.
  
 So does that mean, that the normal Classic is able to give the bass f.ex. a dryer punch or am I getting something wrong here?
  
 Would be glad if you could help me with that issue.
  
 Thank you in advance,
 KoRnasteniker
  
  
*PS:* The used DAC would be a JDS-Labs ODAC Rev.B.


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## intlsubband

kornasteniker said:


> Hi Corda Classic Owners!
> 
> As I'm currently searching for a new headphone amp for my lineup of headphones and earphones, I stumbled upon this beauty of an amp during my research.
> The question is now, which one, ff or non-ff, would you prefer for a great variety of genres, inkluding Jazz, Electropop, Electronica, Metal and a bit of classical music?
> ...


 
  
 I haven't heard the ff version but I can't see why you won't want it - it's a circuit with a switch so you can choose whether or not to engage it. Just gives an extra option - looking forward to upgrading mine.
  
 I've listened to both K702 and the DT880 out of my amp, although briefly - at a meet. Both sounded wonderful. The Audeze should work like a charm - I mostly use mine with an HE-500 and it gives it all the power it needs to sound perfect - and then some!
  
 Looking forward to hearing your impressions. It's a terrific amp and for the price (both new and used) it is an excellent choice.


----------



## Kornasteniker

> Originally Posted by *intlsubband* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I haven't heard the ff version but I can't see why you won't want it - it's a circuit with a switch so you can choose whether or not to engage it. Just gives an extra option - looking forward to upgrading mine.


 
  
 Oh, I haven't noticed that. Thx for the info! Strange that Jan didn't communicate the switch in the mail. So I have a good chance of getting two different sounding amps in one package! Nice! 
 Was anyone able to compare any of the mentioned headphones with the Violectric amps too and is able to tell me the difference to the meier audio?
  
 I am currently using a Benchmark DAC-1 (just temporarily) and I'm always thinking that the amp is a tad bright with the Beyer and the AKG even though the detail reproduction is really high on that one. 
  
 Greetings,
 KoRnasteniker


----------



## rasmushorn

intlsubband said:


> I haven't heard the ff version but I can't see why you won't want it - it's a circuit with a switch so you can choose whether or not to engage it. Just gives an extra option - looking forward to upgrading mine.
> 
> I've listened to both K702 and the DT880 out of my amp, although briefly - at a meet. Both sounded wonderful. The Audeze should work like a charm - I mostly use mine with an HE-500 and it gives it all the power it needs to sound perfect - and then some!
> 
> Looking forward to hearing your impressions. It's a terrific amp and for the price (both new and used) it is an excellent choice.


 
 Hi intlsubband - The ff-version upgrade is not a switch. It is a complete makeover of the PCB. Once you go ff-version you cannot go back (and forth). You might be able to have Jan produce a special version of a Classic with the original and ff-version includeded. But I am almost sure that you will have to have both PCB-boards available.
  
 I have also been listening to K702 via my Classic amplifier and it sounded very good. The Classic is one of those amplifiers that just pair well with almost anything I have connected to it over the years - maybe except Grados. It's neutrality and power will make almost any headphone play well and that is also one of the reasons I have kept it. I can change headphone once in a while but I like to keep my desktop gear the same for reference.


----------



## intlsubband

rasmushorn said:


> Hi intlsubband - The ff-version upgrade is not a switch. It is a complete makeover of the PCB. Once you go ff-version you cannot go back (and forth). You might be able to have Jan produce a special version of a Classic with the original and ff-version includeded. But I am almost sure that you will have to have both PCB-boards available.
> 
> I have also been listening to K702 via my Classic amplifier and it sounded very good. The Classic is one of those amplifiers that just pair well with almost anything I have connected to it over the years - maybe except Grados. It's neutrality and power will make almost any headphone play well and that is also one of the reasons I have kept it. I can change headphone once in a while but I like to keep my desktop gear the same for reference.


 
  
 Thank you for the correction - and apologies for the misinformation!


----------



## rasmushorn

kornasteniker said:


> Hi Corda Classic Owners!
> 
> 
> The question is now, which one, ff or non-ff, would you prefer for a great variety of genres, inkluding Jazz, Electropop, Electronica, Metal and a bit of classical music?
> ...



 


The ff-version is more fluent and more "High Fidelity" and more enjoyable to my ears. It is more relaxed in its presentation. The music feels lighter and I can only explain it like this: The ff-version offers the music to your ears where the original pushes the music into your ears. The original Classic never gave me listening fatigue and it was never an issue I enjoyed it all the time. But after getting the ff-upgrade it feels like some work-load has been taken away from my ears/brain when listening to music and processing what I hear. It was hard to spot the difference between the two when I had a chance to switch and A/B compare. But the above is what I wrote in my notes and also the reason I purchased the upgrade. I am almost sure that now that I have gotten used to the ff-version, I would probably miss it a lot if I had to go back. 

The original version has (in comparison to the ff-version) a bit more WOW-effect at first listen and feels a bit more punchy. It does not have more bass. I would say the biggest difference is in the treble. You will enjoy any genre on the ff-version and I would choose the ff-version no matter which genre I was listening to. 

I hope this can help making a decision, even though it is a very fluffy description...


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## rasmushorn

intlsubband said:


> Thank you for the correction - and apologies for the misinformation!


 
 Actually, I had the same impression as you in the beginning 
  
 I think it is because Jan (or Jans friend?) wrote a post earlier here on Head-fi, explaining that he had a new amplifier where he was able to switch back and forth and A/B compare. I am guessing that it might have been a prototype with the new circuit board? But if it was possible to switch back and forth with a switch it would probably be a lot easier as a customer to choose the upgrade. Then you would not loose your old amplifier in case you liked the sound from the original one better.


----------



## RazorJack

Yeah if it could be made switchable I'd send my Corda JAZZ for the upgrade asap


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## Argo Duck

I own the Violectric V100 and Meier Classic (not yet ff-upgraded). The V100 is a good amp but I much prefer the Classic. With LCD 2 rev 1 and LCD 3F the Violectric is slightly warm and fuzzy, affecting sound-stage and image and de-focusing the upper bass which seems slow and bloated. Violectric may be a better fit with Beyerdynamic T1 (don't remember) or Senn HD 800 (haven't tried this yet!). I have heard the V100/HD 800 described as a really good combination.

From this experience it seems to me LCD 2 and 3 need neutral (possibly even slightly cold) though not dry amps, whether tube or SS. These kinds of amp and tuning maximize the LCDs' detail and ability to render harmonics/timbre. The Classic is a great fit especially with the 3F where it layers instruments beautifully.

Have never heard the Benchmark DAC but impressions often describe it as "bright". Having heard a variety of DACs I definitely prefer those which are 'neutral'-sounding e.g. Meier Stagedac or BMC PureDAC. The Stagedac has a wonderfully even-handed sound. The PureDAC puts a little emphasis in the bass but with precision and detail - which is just what LCDs excel with.

These are just _my_ impressions FWIW from a small selection of DACs (5 or 6) and amps (5 or 6, SS and tube). To paraphrase Jason Stoddard I haven't heard everything, don't know everything and all this is just my opinion


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## Kornasteniker

Seems like that the switchable feature is not yet implemented, but as I'm looking at the integrated amp section of the circuit I think that it's not a huge difference in layouting to make the classic a switchable amp. 
  
 Too bad it doesn't support the switch by nature. But If you think the Benchmarks are too bright for you, it yould be right to switch to the meier soundstage  
  
 Thx for the advice buddy 
  
 Greetings and Thx,
 KoRnasteniker


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## plakat

kornasteniker said:


> Seems like that the switchable feature is not yet implemented, but as I'm looking at the integrated amp section of the circuit I think that it's not a huge difference in layouting to make the classic a switchable amp.
> 
> Too bad it doesn't support the switch by nature. But If you think the Benchmarks are too bright for you, it yould be right to switch to the meier soundstage
> 
> ...




I have both an original Classic and a Daccord if you want to check them out.
In my opinion the DAC2 performs better than the DAC1 btw, being a bit smoother without loosing detail.


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## Kornasteniker

That would be great if you could lend me yours for a couple of days  I'll send you an e-mail asap!
  
 The DAC1 is as I mentioned earlier just a loan for a while. The DAC2 would be a bit over my budged and nearly double the price of the Corda-Daccord combo, so no real option for me 
  
 Greetings,
 KoRnasteniker


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## FredrikT92

Anyone heard the Classic or Classic FF with HD6X0?


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## SunTanScanMan

fredrikt92 said:


> Anyone heard the Classic or Classic FF with HD6X0?


 

 I've been using it with the Classic + Daccord (non FF) since I purchased the HD 650 in June 2014.
  
 As with the other headphones I use or have used with the Classic, it drives them without any issues. Personally that's what I expect from a solid state amp. Neutral and no fuss. I can just plug in and enjoy the music, and forget about the amp  Just the music and the headphone talking... I'm pretty content with that simplicity and peace of mind that brings.
  
 You can change op-amps on the Classic I think(?), but I've not bothered. (Have any owners on this thread tried this? I don't think I've read any such account, and I've probably read this whole thread at least twice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)
  
 The HD 650 is an excellent headphone, what you may lose through the somewhat recessed treble, you gain from listening comfort and detail that would otherwise have been masked by excessive treble. In fact it has a very balanced sound signature and instruments sound very natural, particularly acoustic instruments. I listen to mainly chamber music these days. Strings and piano to me sound more realistic than on the T1.
  
 I'm very happy that the Classic amplifies these headphones (HD 650) to that effect. Would like to hear the FF version of the Classic though.


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## FredrikT92

Thank you!
 Currently I use a Woo WA6-SE with HD600 and HD650.
 But I wanna try something else aswell.


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## chowyeung

Hi everyone,
 I am using Daccord-ff, Classic-ff and Beyer T1.2. Very happy with the sound! I think Corda products are having good synergy with Beyers. My T1.2 sounds very smooth. It's a pleasant listening!
 Cheers


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## SunTanScanMan

chowyeung said:


> Hi everyone,
> I am using Daccord-ff, Classic-ff and Beyer T1.2. Very happy with the sound! I think Corda products are having good synergy with Beyers. My T1.2 sounds very smooth. It's a pleasant listening!
> Cheers


 
 Congrats chowyeung! Welcome to the club. The silver meier stack looks great.
  
  
 -----------------------
  
 On a slightly different topic, I recently had the opportunity to have a new phonitor mini for a few days which hooked up to the daccord via RCA.
 Unfortunately the amp was not suitable for my circumstances. The gain on the amp was too high, meaning the volume wheel could not be used beyond 9 o'clock with the DT880 and the HD 650. With my AT and AKG, the wheel had to be at the lowest position whereupon I encountered channel imbalance. At the volumes I listened to, the sound was too sharp. This is strange as I had not encountered such a sound change from soundcards and my microstreamer. The crossfeed and speaker angle options were pretty good actually.
  
 Going back to the Classic was a relief for the ears and convenience of a usable and excellent volume wheel without imbalance. Unfortunately I returned the phonitor with some disappointment.


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## rasmushorn

chowyeung said:


> Hi everyone,
> I am using Daccord-ff, Classic-ff and Beyer T1.2. Very happy with the sound! I think Corda products are having good synergy with Beyers. My T1.2 sounds very smooth. It's a pleasant listening!
> Cheers


 

 The Daccord and Classic sounds great with T1. Very nice setup. When I had the T1 1st gen I often brought them to meets and I never found any amplifier in that money-range that was as good a pairing with the T1 as the Meier desktop stack.


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## chowyeung

Thanks SunTanScanMan and rasmushorn!
  
 I am a big fans of Corda. These are the amp and dac that I used to own: 
HeadSix、2Move、Stepdance、Quickstep、PCstep、Cantate.2、Concerto、Symphony.2、Rock、Classic、Daccord.
  
My current setup. It gives me hours and hours of musical pleasure!


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## RazorJack

Nice, a true Meier fan 
  
 So am I, the long out of production Stagedac + Concerto stack with the original T1 will be my rig for the rest of my life!
  
 I also have the Jazz that I use with my secondary setup (mostly vinyl), and PCStep for the office and travel, with a DT1350.
  
 It was fun messing around with various brands before I got into Head-Fi and a short period after I signed up, but when I discovered Meier Audio, my audio journey has come to an end a few years ago. Perhaps one day a new headphone, but anything in the chain before that, I highly doubt it.


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## Chillzone21

I have the Concerto, damn it is a sweet sounding amp. I would not sell it if I did not need the power to drive the soon to purchase HE6. I am sure the Classic is even better.


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## Suopermanni

If anyone needs a Corda Classic, I have up for sale at a negotiable price


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## MaxiTK

As far as the FF vs. non-FF issue I'd like to give my own input. My setup is Daccord (max crossfeed) - Classic - AKG K812 and I tried but didn't prefer the the FF-upgrade, I actually ended up having it reversed (Jan provided a fab service there too). Quite simply: for me it took the "fun" out of my music (mainly pop, 90s dance music and uplifting trance). The previous harshness was gone, in was smoothness but also what was gone was the nice thing which my non-FF setup did for me previously: sense of detail, channel "frolicking", sense of energy and the the feeling of sound being "up close and personal". I rarely listen to anything analytically (well mostly only during earlier phases of my listening sessions) and my setup is not built for neutrality - my listening sessions tend to end me bouncing up and down with the beat, arms waving around quite often. I don't know if I am abusing the idea around which Corda products are aimed for but my message is that one shouldn't say that the FF upgrade is a default and everybody should do it. Believe me, it will alter the way how the Classic sounds and the effect will be noticeable.
  
 If you aim for neutral output and you have built your setup around neutrality then most likely the FF-upgrade will support that goal. Otherwise I am not sure if the upgrade produces the anticipated result and there is the danger of having the upgrade reversed. One thing to remember: Classic without FF is not faulty in any way and I believe that the FF-upgrade is ultimately about listing preference.


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## Argo Duck

^ Good notes, and I think what you describe lies within the range of what one might expect from the ff circuitry: specifically, "harshness...gone...smoothness".

Discussions of what makes equipment sound 'detailed' arise regularly, especially with respect to supposed digital artefacts heard by some with many delta-sigma DACs and with (so-called) artificially bright headphones and speakers. IIRC, FF achieves _greater_ detail (Jan claimed), but your experience ("[gone is] sense of detail [and] energy") doesn't necessarily contradict this.

For example, one of my DACs produces more low-level bass _information_. This makes it sound as if it has "more bass" but in fact it is - like most DACs - ruler flat and neutral. I could say the same - to some degree - about my Audez'e phones, which produce more bass information and hence can give an impression they are "dark" or "warm". Of course, almost the opposite subjective result seems to have happened in your case.

What does disturb me a little is your note that it sounds "[less] up close and personal" :eek: I would have anticipated the opposite!

Anyway, the upgrade is one I have scheduled for this year. Thanks for the notes, which are valuable. To your astute observation it is "ultimately about list[en]ing preference" I would add it is also about individual variation in how we (our brains, probably) decode sound.


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## MaxiTK

argo duck said:


> What does disturb me a little is your note that it sounds "[less] up close and personal"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
  
 Thank you for the comments, I enjoy the discussion 
  
 I'll try to explain a bit: Jan has mentioned that the FF-upgrade brings out the microdetail in sound and I have also noticed that too but by "smoothing" (I know the this term is horrible here since imho FF certainly doesn't make everything artificially flat) out the differences but the parts of the sound which perviously stood out ("up close and personal") are now not there as strongly as before.
  
 Once again, I certainly don't want to encourage people not to get the upgrade, especially if the target is neutral output.
  
 Also one thing to consider: your cans may have an effect on how one perceives the result of FF-processing. In my opinion the effect of FF was very noticeable with the K812 but with HD800 the effect wasn't as strong as with the K812.


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## Argo Duck

^ Oh that's interesting re HD 800 versus K812. Thanks!

I have the 800 and - of course - Audeze's. I _do_ intend to try FF as I'm into microdetail and microdynamics (material permitting!) and I've been a follower of Jan's gear for years. Your experience is valuable and appreciated. One certainly doesn't get a complete picture if only satisfied reports arise - unless of course _everyone_ is satisfied


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## rasmushorn

Just as MaxiTK writes I think a very little bit of the intimacy is lost in the ff-upgrade. The ff-versions to me has a more relaxed and easy feeling and not so much WOW-factor and in-your-face sound as the original. The original sounds more sharp and impresses more at first listen.
  
 The ff-version is better for longer listening sessions, more mature and refined. It was difficult to tell the difference between the two when using the T1v2 but with HD800 the differences were bigger to me. Also with T5p(+300 Ohm impedance adapter) the ff-version is more natural sounding with the ff-versions. 
  
 I decided to stay with the ff upgrade but I could easily live with the original. Thanks for sharing your impressions MaxiTK!


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## intlsubband

Recently, the high crossfeed mode started to create audible disturbances. This doesn't occur in the low crossfeed or stereo modes. Did anyone have this problem? I would hate to have to send it all the way to Germany and back if it's something simple.


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## MaxiTK

rasmushorn said:


> The ff-versions to me has a more relaxed and easy feeling and not so much WOW-factor and in-your-face sound as the original. The original sounds more sharp and impresses more at first listen.


 
  
 I agree completely with you but I'd like to add that the wonderful Classic hasn't stopped from impressing me every time I use it


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## Liu Junyuan

Couldn't the description "less up close and personal" be another way of saying the _ff- _upgrade sounds more spacious than the ostensibly more intimate original version?


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## Argo Duck

^ I would hope "more microdetail" would mean subtle audible cues - including spatial ones - would be more evident...

The trouble is that when it comes to our (limited) conscious attention, hearing more of one thing often means we hear less of another. Clearly, for some of us what we lose may not be something we wanted to lose :eek:


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## Liu Junyuan

By spacious, I was referring to the possibility his impressions were that the ff-upgrade expanded the stage (that is, space) beyond the presumed relatively intimate staging (space) of the original, both of which for some, may very much be a positive.


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## Argo Duck

^ I agree with your possibility, and _I_ meant microdetail should include just exactly this expansion of stage (as and when recording and production permit). To clarify, my comment following was intended as a general, ironic reflection about technical changes and their potential subjective effects.

Concerning the space, I hope MaxiTK will enlighten us. I would consider it a positive too!


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## MaxiTK

liu junyuan said:


> Couldn't the description "less up close and personal" be another way of saying the _ff- _upgrade sounds more spacious than the ostensibly more intimate original version?


 
  
 I'd say that FF definitely brings more microdetail out: stuff which was previously hard to hear was more prominent with FF but again stuff which was previously out in front "up close and personal" was not there as strongly as before. As far as "space" goes the FF was more spacious because of the "equalizing" effect of FF: less apparent --> apparent and more apparent --> apparent. This is what my subjective observations were. On the other hand I would not dismiss the issue of the cans themselves and how they bring out the feeling the space generally - when speaking about the effects of FF one should always mention the cans used and and whether crossfeed was used.
  
 As said before I think that the FF-issue is ultimately a "what you want from the sound" thing more than it being considered universally desireable.


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## MaxiTK

maxitk said:


> FF was more spacious because of the "equalizing" effect of FF: less apparent --> apparent and more apparent --> apparent. This is what my subjective observations were.


 
  
 I wanted to come back to this matter: afterwards I began thinking that there was a lot "more apparent --> apparent" goign on than "less apparent --> apparent". It's the microdetail which comes more apparent, not everything. Again, factor in the effect the cans too.


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## Argo Duck

^^ Kind of "the forest becomes less apparent because of all the (extra) trees"?

IOW, larger-scale structures and features become less prominent even as fine detail becomes more apparent, or visible for the first time...would that be a fair formulation?


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## MaxiTK

argo duck said:


> ^^ Kind of "the forest becomes less apparent because of all the (extra) trees"?
> 
> IOW, larger-scale structures and features become less prominent even as fine detail becomes more apparent, or visible for the first time...would that be a fair formulation?


 
  
 Totally agree here. As the discussion shows the effect of FF isn't something which can be easily described easily, lots of metaphors. Too bad there isn't a simple way to preview the effect since it requires a physical update.


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## rasmushorn

maxitk said:


> Totally agree here. As the discussion shows the effect of FF isn't something which can be easily described easily, lots of metaphors. Too bad there isn't a simple way to preview the effect since it requires a physical update.


 

 I think Jan Meier once had a prototype with a flipswitch to change back and forth? He should bring one of those to meets etc. That would make it easier for people to compare the two versions. 
  
 I had a chance to sit at his booth at a meet in Germany and compare my normal Classic+Daccord to a ff-moderated Classic+Daccord. But even there it took a while(and a pair of HD800) for me to discover the differences.
  
 I have to say I am a very impressed by those of you who can remember what your old Classic+Daccord sounded like before you shipped them to get the upgrade and then be able to explain the difference after the upgrade so accurately! I had a hard time doing so even after the time it took to change the cables!


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## Argo Duck

^ What you don't appreciate rasmushorn is some of us have phenomenal powers of recall and cognition 

But seriously, I have the same problem as you. Yet, I'm reasonably confident there is better than zero - though nowhere near 100%! - validity to impressions shared among us. Whilst it is easy to fool the human brain (near perceptual and cognitive boundaries; given the right conditions), there is also a lot it gets right. My (tentative) 'confidence' in this is my only reason for sharing impressions and asking questions of others' impressions. Otherwise, I wouldn't bother as I'm not into groups for the sake of socialization 

A major problem reducing the degree of validity achievable for audiophiles connecting over the internet is that we rarely get to be in the same room with the same gear so that we can even _begin_ to calibrate our perceptions and arrive at common 'meanings' (generalizations of perceptual data) of terms. Or when we do get together, it is often at audio shows which are noisy, chaotic, and present novel sense and social experiences that strongly interfere with our usual listening cognition. Given this I think we too often - on head-fi - agree and disagree over little more than empty air!


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## wolfz

Bumped


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## wolfz

Just want to chime in here but not to discuss the ff version. Quite interesting discussion......
 Once there was a time ( long ago) I had an entry level Sennh. with the yellow pads (414? ) and
 a cheap amp % source and was immensely enjoying music. Today I have the habit to listen
 to sound more often than normal . "Coloured ,clear , crisp, decay, definition, depth,  detailed, euphonic,
 grainy, harsh.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




..and there are quite a few more words to describe sound. In a way, and as a hobby it
 can be fun. But it too often distracts me from the real thing, enjoying & feeling the music. Some people
 probably know what I mean. Hope to find the way back to enjoy music without distraction ( but not with a cheap Senn & cheap amp).    Meier has to stay 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
  
 I started with the Corda v1 a long time ago and think that it is a magnificent piece of audio gear.
 It is actually so good that a conversion to ff is not on my priority list. Maybe one day 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 For me ( I'm not an audioholic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) the Corda Classic with a Beyer T1 is already "audio heaven".
 A wonderful combination.  Detail , soundstage , instrument separation etc.... are all top notch in
 my opinion. What I especially like is that the amp hardly ads anything to the sound like a lot of
 other amps do. And not to forget the crossfeed filter that is something very special.
 I compared the Corda with some other amps and it always came out as a winner. Even the Burson Soloist
 which is a highly regarded amp was outperformed. Of course everybody hears different and this is just my
 opinion. I don't know how the Corda would compare to a $4000 Prima Luna or Cavalli tube amp or Luxman
 solid state amp but you pay a lot of money for only small improvements in sound I guess. It wouldn't surprise me
 at all to hear that the CC competes with amps costing several times as much.  Tube amps are often
 recommended for the T1. I don't 100% agree with this. The Corda Classic goes so good with the T1 you might
  think the amp was designed for it.     I used the CC with the following headphones and  liked
 each combo apart from the Beyer DT880 that sounded a bit thin (still good...).  A warmer sounding amp added a bit more "body".
 Senns HD800 , HD600/650 , Alessandro MS-PRO , Grado sr325i ( a little aggressive at times....) , Ultrasone Sig Pro and Edition 12 ,  Kept the T1 and HD600. The HD600 and the CC are also a very nice combo. I think the HD 600 is a marvelous
 headphone and what it delivers for the low price is very impressive.


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## Fastnbulbous

I got the iFi Pro iCAN a couple months ago because I thought it would be fun to try out the tube option while still having solid state. It is fun, and does sound different than the Classic, but isn't necessarily better. I wish I still had my Audeze LCD-2.2, because I felt the Classic really had nice synergy with it. I'll probably miss it, but I'm moving forward and selling my Classic+Daccord combo so I can eventually afford the iFi Pro DSD when it's finally released.


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## Richter Di

Great explanation Jan. Thank you.


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## mocenigo

razorjack said:


> Hmm.. I am still not quite convinced, as I am a firm "believer" of sound science.
> 
> 
> There is, to my knowledge, still no evidence that 24 bit recordings sound any better than Redbook. If this whole _ff_ circuit is based on that notion, then I do not think it is for me.


 

 Well, it does not matter here _what_ initially prompted Jan to design that circuit – if it sounds better (which I cannot yet prove with my ears). But the idea seems to be to first bump the high frequencies, then amplify the signal, then reduce the highs a bit in the feedback loop. The result then would be also to reduce any harmonic distorsion caused by the amplification circuit from the _lower_ frequencies. This will then be an improvement in neutrality, provided that phase changes are kept under control. If this is implemented well, then the result can be very interesting. I hope to be able to test this.
  
  Roberto


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## Richter Di

mocenigo said:


> Well, it does not matter here _what_ initially prompted Jan to design that circuit – *if it sounds better (which I cannot yet prove with my ears)*. But the idea seems to be to first bump the high frequencies, then amplify the signal, then reduce the highs a bit in the feedback loop. The result then would be also to reduce any harmonic distorsion caused by the amplification circuit from the _lower_ frequencies. This will then be an improvement in neutrality, provided that phase changes are kept under control. If this is implemented well, then the result can be very interesting. I hope to be able to test this.
> 
> Roberto



It sounds better, believe me.


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## Shure or bust

I am on the fence guys. Go Audio Technica ha-5000 or Meier Corda classic ?


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## rasmushorn

richter di said:


> It sounds better, believe me.


 

 Not everyone thinks that. I was in doubt while A/B testing ff versions versus the original. The original has a very detail-focused sound to it. The original versions can be more impressive and has a bit more punchy and edgy feeling to the sound. I can fully understand if some people prefer the original sound. Both are good. The ff-version is more friendly and natural. I can appreciate both equally and I do not regret having my Daccord+Classic updated.


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## Richter Di

rasmushorn said:


> Not everyone thinks that. I was in doubt while A/B testing ff versions versus the original. The original has a very detail-focused sound to it. The original versions can be more impressive and has a bit more punchy and edgy feeling to the sound. I can fully understand if some people prefer the original sound. Both are good. The ff-version is more friendly and natural. I can appreciate both equally and I do not regret having my Daccord+Classic updated.



I might have had to add in IMHO.
For me it is clearly more transparent with the ff. There is just more music while nothing is getting worser. So for me the ff makes a huge difference. But clearly only in my opinion.


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## rasmushorn

richter di said:


> I might have had to add in IMHO.
> For me it is clearly more transparent with the ff. There is just more music while nothing is getting worser. So for me the ff makes a huge difference. But clearly only in my opinion.


 

 Yes - I thought so  
 I just wanted to make clear that the original Daccord+Classic are still VERY good sounding options. I totally understand why some people prefer the ff-versions but whether it is worth the upgrade price is debatable. Also I found it difficult to pick up the difference in the beginning it wasn't that clear with the T1 but the HD800 made it more clear to me what the difference is.


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## Argo Duck

Interesting information rasmushorn. I think I am one of those who would lean toward the ff side and I _do_ have HD800 (sourced from Jan indeed ). As well, this upgrade/sidegrade is one of the lesser expenses in this hobby


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## rasmushorn

Tried to post a picture of my Daccord + Classic but it currently does not work for me.


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## lamaslamas

Hi Guys, 
I'm about to purchase a corda classic ff, but I cannot decide between that and the Lyr 3. I need to drive a really hungry hp like the Abyss, I tried the Schiit Lyr 3 and it would suffice my needs, but would the corda classic be enough, or would it be less powerful than the lyr? 
Thx


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## pichu

Hi,

I have owned both and you will have no problem running your headphones with either amplifier. The problem i have with the Lyr 3 is that about 20 seconds after turning it on, it makes a loud pop noise if you have headphones plugged in. This was enough for me to sell that amp. Other than that, it sounded good. The Corda Classic is currently my favorite amp and I use it 90% of the time,

Cheers,

Jonathan


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## pichu

Can anyone compare the Corda Classic to the ff version? Is the upgrade worth it? What is the difference in sound?


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## wantan

The FF reduces listening fatigue, I find it easier to listen to higher levels with the FF version. The Cordas are very unfatiguing to beginn with but the FF makes listening at higher volumes even more pleasing wihout sacrificing anything in low volumes. You could also say the FF has a better flow. I'd say FF reduces macrodetails and clarity a bit for some additional naturalness. Macrodetails in amps are comparable to treble peaks in headphones, it seems to add detail and clarity but it's often (not always) more "fake" detail. What you realy want in high end audio is microdynamics and low level information.


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## cjc

Still enjoying my *Corda HA-2 MKII *after many,many years. It does a great job with my Audeze LCD-2f, Senn HD58X Jubilee, and Sony MDR-Z7. It also has a *bunch *of special features that I don't ever use.


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## wantan

What special features does it have and how does it sound like? 
I wonder how much the crossfeed has evolved over the years, I know Corda Jazz crossfeed is different from the Classic and Daccord.


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## cjc

wantan said:


> What special features does it have and how does it sound like?
> I wonder how much the crossfeed has evolved over the years, I know Corda Jazz crossfeed is different from the Classic and Daccord.


 My Coda HA-2 MKII has 2 Headphone jacks ( 0 /120 ohm ), Crossfeed Selector, 2 Tone Controls, and a 3 Position High-Cut Filter. This German made amp is really amazing sounding and built like a tank.


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## gammarayson

Has the Corda Classic  been discontinued? It no longer appears on Jan's website.


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## ThanatosVI

gammarayson said:


> Has the Corda Classic  been discontinued? It no longer appears on Jan's website.



Yes,  the corda classic has been produced in a huge batch, which is now Sold out


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## arielext

My god, I love this amp.
I bought a x-hand pair this year and have had Jan take a look at it while he installed the ff upgrade.
When I got it back I was pleasantly surprised. Next to the classic-ff the only amp that really got to me was the Rupert Neve Headphone Amp (which I unfortunately sold before I got the classic-ff).
Jan's work is still something I can relate to every day. I think I stared with a porta corda back in 2005-2007ish  When I saw the opportunity to buy a classic I didn't hesitate and never regretted it since.


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## Jimmyblues1959

arielext said:


> My god, I love this amp.
> I bought a x-hand pair this year and have had Jan take a look at it while he installed the ff upgrade.
> When I got it back I was pleasantly surprised. Next to the classic-ff the only amp that really got to me was the Rupert Neve Headphone Amp (which I unfortunately sold before I got the classic-ff).
> Jan's work is still something I can relate to every day. I think I stared with a porta corda back in 2005-2007ish  When I saw the opportunity to buy a classic I didn't hesitate and never regretted it since.


Would anyone happen to know what Jan Meier's current Email address is? I tried to contact him at an older one which is no longer in use. I recently purchased a Meier Corda Classic with 230v and was wondering if it can be manually switched
to 120v like my Corda Jazz ff, or if it needs to be sent back to Jan for that mod. I do have a voltage converter but wanted to know if I can change the voltage simply by removing the Classic's cover and making the adjustment. Any advice would be helpful.

Thanks and Happy Holidays! Jim


----------



## ThanatosVI

Jimmyblues1959 said:


> Would anyone happen to know what Jan Meier's current Email address is? I tried to contact him at an older one which is no longer in use. I recently purchased a Meier Corda Classic with 230v and was wondering if it can be manually switched
> to 120v like my Corda Jazz ff, or if it needs to be sent back to Jan for that mod. I do have a voltage converter but wanted to know if I can change the voltage simply by removing the Classic's cover and making the adjustment. Any advice would be helpful.
> 
> Thanks and Happy Holidays! Jim


I used to own the classic, if I recall correctly you could switch voltage at the bottom (not backside, bottom)

His email should still be:
meier-audio@t-online.de


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## Jimmyblues1959

ThanatosVI said:


> I used to own the classic, if I recall correctly you could switch voltage at the bottom (not backside, bottom)
> 
> His email should still be:
> meier-audio@t-online.de




Thanks for the quick reply, Thanatos! I remember speaking with you in regard 
to your Classic a while ago, but it was already sold.  I tried that email address for Jan, but it came back as undeliverable.  Should have my Classic in a few weeks and I'm really looking forward to hearing it in my headfi system. 

Thanks again for the helpful reply and Happy Holidays to you and your loved ones!

Jim


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## Reputator

Well that killed my buzz! I've been running the Burson V6 Vivids for several months now (since early January) in my Corda Classic, enjoying the sound IMMENSELY. I asked Jan an unrelated question, and come to find out the Classic runs its opamps at 18v and the Bursons are only rated for 16.5v (says 17v on the datasheet) and allegedly could blow up at any moment!






Well, that really sucks! I guess I'm lucky it's been fine thus far, but now I'm not sure what I should do next. I also sent Burson an email asking about it, just to be sure, but I've got to decide what my next move will be.


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## Jimmyblues1959

Reputator said:


> Well that killed my buzz! I've been running the Burson V6 Vivids for several months now (since early January) in my Corda Classic, enjoying the sound IMMENSELY. I asked Jan an unrelated question, and come to find out the Classic runs its opamps at 18v and the Bursons are only rated for 16.5v (says 17v on the datasheet) and allegedly could blow up at any moment!
> 
> 
> 
> Well, that really sucks! I guess I'm lucky it's been fine thus far, but now I'm not sure what I should do next. I also sent Burson an email asking about it, just to be sure, but I've got to decide what my next move will be.


It's always a bit risky when you use after market parts in a piece of audio gear.  I own a Corda Classic, Corda Jazz ff, and a Gustard H10,
and run them on their stock op amps.  At least I know the stock op amps are properly rated for the circuitry in each respective piece of gear.

I'd speak to Jan Meier about which stock op amps he used in the Corda Classic and then use those... 😊


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## Reputator

I got my answer! Jan says with a little soldering skill you can replace a couple voltage regulators and bring down the input voltage to 15v.





Good to know! Maybe it will help someone else.


----------

