# Audio-gd Digital Interface



## reiserFS

Seen this on Audio-gd's website today, not entirely sure what the purpose of this device is, but it certainly looks interesting.
   
_Edit1: Looks like it's a USB to Coax converter. No technical details known yet._


----------



## evanft

Looks like a USB to coax converter?


----------



## TheWuss

it's a converter.  usb to coaxial.
  it's meant to compete with the m2tech hiface.
   
  this should be very interesting.  as i just bought a stagedac, and will next be upgrading from usb audio to coaxial.  but need something like this in order to do so...
   
  awesome.
  i hope when kingwa is done testing that it's all good...
   
  thanks for sharing!!!


----------



## reiserFS

Quote: 





thewuss said:


> it's a converter.  usb to coaxial.
> it's meant to compete with the m2tech hiface.
> 
> this should be very interesting.  as i just bought a stagedac, and will next be upgrading from usb audio to coaxial.  but need something like this in order to do so...
> ...


 

 You're most welcome. I'll be keeping an eye on this as well to see how well it competes with the m2tech hiface.


----------



## punk_guy182

I wonder how well this DSP3 performs and if it could perform better with some clean power provided by LiFePO4 batteries.


----------



## nlhk

Just wonder if it is using Asynchronous USB mode or using normal USB mode with DSP to correct any jitter problem.
   
  Moreover, duno if it's performance will be affected by the DC power supply and whether a good DC power supply will be available as an option.


----------



## upstateguy

I just saw this.... what's the *coax in* for?
   
  Is it a DAC too?


----------



## superjohny

one of the purpose is probably for guys like me who bought a ref8 without the usb but want to use usb to connect to a laptop or even a pc.


----------



## nlhk

Should be for Upsampling ...

  
  Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> I just saw this.... what's the *coax in* for?
> 
> Is it a DAC too?


----------



## reiserFS

Quote: 





nlhk said:


> Just wonder if it is using Asynchronous USB mode or using normal USB mode with DSP to correct any jitter problem.
> 
> Moreover, duno if it's performance will be affected by the DC power supply and whether a good DC power supply will be available as an option.


 


 I strongly believe that there *is* going to be a difference when using a good DC power supply or the USB powered mode.


----------



## sp70

At the bottom of the page it says: "Now we are burning both our USBface and hiFace, once we finished burn in, we will compare their sound level.  If our USBface sound worst, we will kill it."
   
  Sounds right to me.  Hopefully they are onto something though. sp70.


----------



## paper2k1

any release Date & price Information?


----------



## punk_guy182

Release date is next month or at least 4 weeks if they find that the USBface sounds better than the hiFace.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

It already has a terrific built in DC PSU, look carefully at the internal shots. The question is will it be better than the battery powered JKeny HiFace as PG rightly contends ?...Then again the HIFace does not have the DSP1....if this unit is 24/96 async to boot it could be a really good to possibly great alternative. The cool thing is the added connectivity it affords. This unit should be very good depending on the hardware (USB config).
   
  Kingwa never ceases to amaze me.....
   
  Who will be testing this box ? Anyone know yet ?
   
  Peete.


----------



## JulioCat2

Do you think Kingwa will present a totally complete product only to make a test?? I think they already made all the test they can, in a pre production product.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





pricklely peete said:


> It already has a terrific built in DC PSU, look carefully at the internal shots. The question is will it be better than the battery powered JKeny HiFace as PG rightly contends ?...Then again the HIFace does not have the DSP1....if this unit is 24/96 async to boot it could be a really good to possibly great alternative. The cool thing is the added connectivity it affords. This unit should be very good depending on the hardware (USB config).
> 
> Kingwa never ceases to amaze me.....
> 
> ...


 

 I'm new to Kingwa.  What is the DSP1?  Is this just a converter like the HiFace?
   
  Also it looks like the BNC is wired in parallel to the RCA jack, so I don't know what advantage it's going to have over the RCA?
   
*@pg182: * Come on, don't you think they already know how they're going to _play_ the results of their "test"?
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
   
  USG


----------



## reiserFS

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> I'm new to Kingwa.  What is the DSP1?  Is this just a converter like the HiFace?
> 
> Also it looks like the BNC is wired in parallel to the RCA jack, so I don't know what advantage it's going to have over the RCA?
> 
> ...


 

   The DSP1 is their own Digital Sound Processor. Not sure where they use it as well.


----------



## haloxt

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> *@pg182: * Come on, don't you think they already know how they're going to _play_ the results of their "test"?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  No need to argue about this, it's obvious a customer's opinion has less vested interest than a company's opinion. Even if audio-gd says they like the usbface better it is the consumer's responsibility to find out, not trust the words of competing companies. The only thing that was meant by audio-gd is that they will not sell the usbface if they aren't happy about it.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





reiserfs said:


> The DSP1 is their own *Digital Sound Processor*. Not sure where they use it as well.


 

 Do you know what it does?
   
  USG


----------



## gevorg

This is hilarious! Imaging if someone like Bose would put a Sennheiser HD800 on their website and say that they're doing a comparison so stay tuned. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'll give props to Kingwa though if he publicly admits that HiFace > USBFace. At the very least, he could have chosen an original name. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Its not as complicated as using CAST technology from Krell.


----------



## punk_guy182

I think that they will test it first with selected chinese customers and If the product is popular then he will sell it to all customers IMO.
   
  @Peete
   
  I haven't received my hiface jkeny mod yet and I can't wait to try it out. Once I get it, I'll let you try it out.
  Some people have reported that the BNC plug outputs 50ohm and not 75ohm by looking at the pictures of the internals of the USBface. What do you think? Are all Audio-GD BNC outputs or inputs 50ohms?


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote: 





gevorg said:


> I'll give props to Kingwa though if he publicly admits that HiFace > USBFace. At the very least, he could have chosen an original name.


 

 He has done that before and he has recommended the hiface to Audio-GD customers. Probably not on his Audio-GD website but at least in emails.
  As for the name, yeah it is not very catchy, or original but you have to understand that his english is not very good. Maybe you could recommend him a better name because I know that he is open to comments and suggestions.
   
  Peace!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





gevorg said:


> This is hilarious! Imaging if someone like Bose would put a Sennheiser HD800 on their website and say that they're doing a comparison so stay tuned.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Krell did not invent CAST they licensed it from a Japanese outfit ( I think, although it might have already been public domain by that point). That is why the outputs on the back of the A-gd DAC's that use ACSS tech are labeled SATRI. That is the original name for current transmission topology.
   
  Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> I'm new to Kingwa.  What is the DSP1?  Is this just a converter like the HiFace?
> 
> Also it looks like the BNC is wired in parallel to the RCA jack, so I don't know what advantage it's going to have over the RCA?
> 
> ...


 

 It's very sophisticated processor that is used for HD signal transmission/processing. It does so many things that to list them all would take me an hour. Kingwa uses just a fraction of it's power but puts it to good use for the application it's intended for.
   
  It's called the Alterra Cyclone II....go to the Alterra website and look up it's info. It's quite a steep technical read but you will get enough useful info form the pages to form a pretty decent picture of what it can do. It's interesting to note that Denon uses the same chip in their 39XX/59XX series DVDP's to process video and likely audio. I came across that by accident when I had a look under the hood of the 3910 DVDP I have.
   
  Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> I think that they will test it first with selected chinese customers and If the product is popular then he will sell it to all customers IMO.
> 
> @Peete
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Hi PG,
   
  I'm not really interested in USB but thanks just the same, however_ I really do appreciate_ the thoughtful gesture M !!!. The BNC connectors on the CD7 and the RE1 are Canare 75 ohm. Now you know why I swapped out the stock stranded SPC wire for the Illumati COAX 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (the discussion in the other thread about correct termination all the way through etc).


----------



## BigMango

Nice, I hope Kingwa will also implement this within his DACs, replacing the current USB input, so that we won't need an external box anymore.


----------



## squall343

Any pricing indication?


----------



## noinimod

<USD200, probably as cheap/expensive as the hiface


----------



## jimmychan

Quote: 





noinimod said:


> <USD200, probably as cheap/expensive as the hiface


 


 I think this is a good guess.
   
  Indeed it is a shrink down version of RE3.
   
  RE3 is a bit expensive, so KingWa produce a scale down with minimal functions.


----------



## IPodPJ

Wish it had AES.


----------



## SP Wild

The upcoming M2tech Evo will have AES, BNC, RCA and IS2 - and a 10V DC input and timing lifted away from the computer with two built in clocks and even an input for an external clock unit.  It just ticks all the boxes.  Period.


----------



## noinimod

Quote: 





jimmychan said:


> I think this is a good guess.
> 
> Indeed it is a shrink down version of RE3.
> 
> RE3 is a bit expensive, so KingWa produce a scale down with minimal functions.


 
  it isn't a guess, lol. <USD200 is the price kingwa quoted me


----------



## Currawong

Fair enough about the cynicism with the "kill" comment, but he has canned (ha!) a couple of ideas where either he wasn't satisfied with the sound quality or reliability.  He _is_ genuine about creating good gear (rather than flogging generic stuff on eBay), as well as genuine feedback as opposed to hype.
   
  Wouldn't mind seeing some HiFace vs. USBFace jitter measurements though, after he's put in a 75 Ohm socket (someone, who shall remain nameless, suggested it was a 50 Ohm one, oops if so) and 75 Ohm wire.


----------



## cravenz

Quote: 





currawong said:


> Fair enough about the cynicism with the "kill" comment, but he has canned (ha!) a couple of ideas where either he wasn't satisfied with the sound quality or reliability.  He _is_ genuine about creating good gear (rather than flogging generic stuff on eBay), as well as genuine feedback as opposed to hype.
> 
> Wouldn't mind seeing some HiFace vs. USBFace jitter measurements though, after he's put in a 75 Ohm socket (someone, who shall remain nameless, suggested it was a 50 Ohm one, oops if so) and 75 Ohm wire.


 

 I'm very supportive if this is what he is doing and it does show his commitment to building a good product and I've seen from several posts that there is a fair bit of interaction between the manufacturer and the the consumers ensuring that the product is tailored as much as possible to the needs of the consumers and with good quality products in mind.
   
  only comment is that I wish the design of the box itself could look a tad nicer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. yes yes, I know it makes no sonic differences heh.


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote: 





bigmango said:


> Nice, I hope Kingwa will also implement this within his DACs, replacing the current USB input, so that we won't need an external box anymore.


 

 That's what I proposed when the RE3 was first released. I'm not sure that having more elements (USb cable, converter, etc...)  in the sound chain can be very good for SQ.

  
  Quote: 





ipodpj said:


> Wish it had AES.


 

 You are your AES... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





currawong said:


> Wouldn't mind seeing some HiFace vs. USBFace jitter measurements though, after he's put in a 75 Ohm socket (someone, who shall remain nameless, suggested it was a 50 Ohm one, oops if so) and 75 Ohm wire.


 

 Kingwa has confirmed to me that the BNC socket on the USBface is 50 ohms because according to him the HiFace BNC socket is also 50ohms and he wanted to match the hiface as much as possible for comparaison purposes.

  
  Quote: 





cravenz said:


> only comment is that I wish the design of the box itself could look a tad nicer
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm ok with the design as long as the price stays low.


----------



## DaveBSC

Does anyone know if this is adaptive or asynchronous yet? If it's just another 24/96 adaptive converter, the Hiface EVO seems like the better choice.


----------



## noinimod

The Tenor chip is adaptive. Woot, the hiface is a 75 ohm BNC? Damn it, i need to replace the BNC on mine then


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote: 





noinimod said:


> The Tenor chip is adaptive. Woot, the hiface is a 75 ohm BNC? Damn it, i need to replace the BNC on mine then


 

 No it's a 50ohms BNC socket. Marco said that it the Hiface BNC would be true 75ohms but he's wrong.


----------



## noinimod

Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> No it's a 50ohms BNC socket. Marco said that it the Hiface BNC would be true 75ohms but he's wrong.


 
  After all the trouble i went to for my 75 ohm BNC connectors, dang. Did you swap out the BNC socket on your hiface?


----------



## leeperry

75[size=medium]Ω female BNC connectors are hardly ever used for a very good reason, [/size][size=medium]and many ppl think that "_the impedance mismatch problem at the connector is academical_": http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/m/381397/0/#msg_381397[/size]
   
  [size=medium]Does this interface use the Tenor chip BTW?[/size]


----------



## Currawong

leeperry: Interesting.  That explains much.


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> 75[size=medium]Ω female BNC connectors are hardly ever used for a very good reason, [/size][size=medium]and many ppl think that "_the impedance mismatch problem at the connector is academical_": http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/m/381397/0/#msg_381397[/size]
> 
> [size=medium]Does this interface use the Tenor chip BTW?[/size]


 
  This could well be the pragmatic view of 75/50ohm connectors & the path taken by manufacturers but stating that impedance mismatch is academic is mistaken as far as I know. This 2008 quote from Bruno Putzeys (designer of Hypex amps) ignores the real speeds that cause the problems (reflections) of impedance mismatches & this is the rise time which is where the 0 or 1 are sensed. These rise times can be as fast as 2nS so reflections can be a real problem


----------



## Currawong

A useful question would be: Will the socket make a significant audible impact? However, this would surely need measurements to determine properly IMO.


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote: 





currawong said:


> A useful question would be: Will the socket make a significant audible impact? However, this would surely need measurements to determine properly IMO.


 

 If impedance mismatch happens anywhere (including the sockets) then theory says that it will cause reflections (at the speeds mentioned for rise times). These reflections can cause jitter - whether that happens in your implementation is down to individual implementations. But, is it not better to design out these issues in the first place rather than try to fix them at a later stage?


----------



## leeperry

jkeny said:


> This could well be the pragmatic view of 75/50ohm connectors & the path taken by manufacturers but stating that impedance mismatch is academic is mistaken as far as I know. This 2008 quote from Bruno Putzeys (designer of Hypex amps) ignores the real speeds that cause the problems (reflections) of impedance mismatches & this is the rise time which is where the 0 or 1 are sensed. These rise times can be as fast as 2nS so reflections can be a real problem


 

 Good point! But a short cable(1ft or so) should minimize those reflections? Dan Lavry thinks that the shorter your S/PDIF cable, the better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The thing is that I'm not sure any manufacturer wants to increase its RMA figures on purpose because they decided to go 75[size=large]Ω, but their customers ruined the connector due to 50[size=large]Ω[/size] cables..[/size]


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Good point! But a short cable(1ft or so) should minimize those reflections? Dan Lavry thinks that the shorter your S/PDIF cable, the better
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yes, so we are into the task of trying various ways of minimising these reflections after the event - "the search for the best sounding cable"
  
  Why don't they just standardise on 50hms & be done with it? This would seem to make more sense, no?


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





jkeny said:


> Yes, so we are into the task of trying various ways of minimising these reflections after the event - "the search for the best sounding cable"
> 
> Why don't they just standardise on 50hms & be done with it? This would seem to make more sense, no?


 


 but wasnt 75 ohms chosen using some sort of math? like to be the optimal impedance for transmission of digital data? its not like they just picked the number randomly and ran with it...


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote: 





souprknowva said:


> but wasnt 75 ohms chosen using some sort of math? like to be the optimal impedance for transmission of digital data? its not like they just picked the number randomly and ran with it...


 

 There probably is a reason but I'm not sure how critical the 75ohm really is , AES/EBU balanced is 110ohms. I don't think the 75ohm is a special value that is optimal (it probably arose based on cheap 75ohm cables being around at the time) - I'm sure you can operate the impedance at a range of values - just look at the various 50hm connectors/ terminations. The important thing is to ensure a consistent impedance from transmitter through to receiver to avoid reflections.


----------



## dw1narso

subscribed


----------



## shampoosuicide

The font has gotten swirlier.


----------



## EraserXIV

shampoosuicide said:


> The font has gotten swirlier.


 

 It appears they now use the swirly font for both their Audio-GD brand name and the actual product name itself. It seems to be a running trend with both the more recently released FUN and Sparrow.


----------



## mmerrill99

BTW, it looks like Audio_Gd might have to review their testing protocol as the statement that the Hiface is using 50 ohm BNC connectors appears to be incorrect http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/498151/m2tech-hiface-mods-and-discussions/105#post_6758850
   
   
   
  Quote: 





> Marco has confirmed to me that they are using 75ohms parts. I'd like to apologize to the community for saying that it wasn't the case.


----------



## ulyses

What abaout dac19 dsp. Did we paid that price difference between dsp and df for nothing? If this one pair with df surpass over dsp and cost same, I will really sad.


----------



## Trapper32

Wow...  Everyone's getting their shorts in a knot over something thats not even final or certain.   Let the dust settle and use your ears if indeed the product comes to market. With all the controversy, I don't doubt Kingwa will play his cards closer to the vest in the future.


----------



## DarKu

USB *Face* ???
  They copied even the name! Not original at all
  But the device looks nice


----------



## dex85

double post


----------



## dex85

i was going to ask the same thing, since some of the Kinga's DACs now use the same Tenor USB chip with support for 24/96 and have DSP inside. obviously, USBface can be used with other brands DACs, but am i right to think that it is meant mostly for owners of Audio-Gd DACs with old 16/44.1 USB chips (or with no USB input)? 
  Quote: 





ulyses said:


> What abaout dac19 dsp. Did we paid that price difference between dsp and df for nothing? If this one pair with df surpass over dsp and cost same, I will really sad.


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote: 





darku said:


> USB *Face* ???
> They copied even the name! Not original at all
> But the device looks nice


 

 Nobody cares about the name and Kingwa (Audio-GD) doesn't copy other manufacturers.
  Let's stop bashing for nothing. I'm waiting for his response on the whole 75ohms issue. He is not very good at english and I think I may have understodd something else that he intended to say in the first place.
   
  Peace!


----------



## mmerrill99

For those wanting to learn about & follow up on all this impedance matching & it's effect on digital lines, here's a great site I just came across http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_14/index.html


----------



## haloxt

If anyone is new to these things, USBface short for "USB" and "interface". USBFace does have some weird connotations, so if anyone has suggestions for a new name you should tell it to Kingwa right now before they give this product the green light and manufacture all the boxes. I think they should call it USB Smiley and just draw a smiley face after USB on it .


----------



## cifani090

It is also on Meier Audio's website


----------



## leeperry

jkeny said:


> so we are into the task of trying various ways of minimising these reflections after the event - "the search for the best sounding cable"


 
   
  hehe, I've always found this endless "quest" grotesque to the extreme....the best cable is the shortest, filling pages on "analog sounding digital cable" blablabla regarding snake oil digital cables blessed by shamans up in the hills on a dark moon night sure must have steered away a lot of ppl off S/PDIF 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I always find myself agreeing w/ what Mr Lavry says, who's undoubtedly one of the most knowledgeable ppl I've been reading lately: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/438220/nos-dac-marketing-bs#post_5905175
   
  and when he says that the shorter your S/PDIF cable the better, then there's no need for fuss and fighting anymore IMHO..a 1ft 75Ω Canare cable w/ 75Ω plugs should do just fine(I've ordered one btw).
   


jkeny said:


> Why don't they just standardise on 50hms & be done with it? This would seem to make more sense, no?


   
  as you know, S/PDIF is full of technical flaws...at this point it prolly doesn't matter anymore: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/172143-spdif-vs-word-clock-question.html
   
  now that you can buy cheap USB Isolators such as the ADuM4160 chip, that provides galvanic isolation and USB clock regeneration...I honestly think that the S/PDIF DAC days are counted.


----------



## tim3320070

I absolutely believe he'll kill it if it sounds worse.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

The USB interface is even _more flawed_ than SPDIF...why make things more complicated than they have to be ? Stick with BNC or settle on an I2S standard and be done with it. I would think integrating an I2S jack into a sound card/DAC would be rather easy to do and it could adopt the Firewire standard, DIN what have you. Rather than pushing for USB we should be pushing for I2S and/or SPDIF BNC.
   
  Peete.


----------



## Tachikoma

Comparing the USB interface to the SPDIF one is like comparing the SATA interface with an internet connection - they aren't the same thing, at all!


----------



## haloxt

I think the name USBface is fine, but I've been asking around for new names because some people here have expressed dislike for the current name, and if we are to change it we better decide now before they produce all the chassis. The following are by someone drunk and talking in IRC, I would give him credit but not sure if he wants his name posted here. Bad names but heck I couldn't think up one I liked after an hour of thinking.
   
  reclocker, termiclocker, the clock, clockohmungo, clock4u, clockIT, reclock, daclock, Uface, daFace, InYourFace.
   
  This is also from someone else on IRC (don't be offended I just thought this was funny, I am shopping for a usb converter too ): laughinyourfaceforthepriceyoupaidforthis
   
  Monkey King is what I think audio-gd should name the usbface, since it seems their chinese mythology named amps never get criticized, and sometimes the best way to describe things is with flowery descriptors. With some imagination you might see how the following short summary is reminiscent of the function of a usb reclocker, ie lack of asynchronous and how monkey behaves even though he gets the job done because of the headband (DSP device) .
   
  http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/chinese-mythology.php?deity=MONKEY
   
  Quote: 





> As told in _Journey To The West_, GUAN-YIN enlisted MONKEY as chief disciple of the young Buddhist monk TRIPITAKA. Together with SANDY and PIGSY, he protected the boy on his quest to India, battling demons and righting wrongs along the way. His natural monkey trickery now had a holy purpose which he unleashed with much enthusiasm — and his uncontrollable ego was kept firmly in place by a little device of GUAN-YIN's devising: a head-band made of gold.
> 
> The unsuspecting Great Sage was not prepared for the terrible torture of the Headache Sutra! Whenever MONKEY misbehaved, TRIPITAKA recited the Sutra and the golden fillet squeezed until his very eyeballs felt like bursting. Try as he might, he could not remove it. There was no defense except submission, and pretty soon MONKEY was the most humble disciple the world has ever known. Usually.


 
   
  Say you like USBface or give me some new name, or else Monkey King might actually get suggested to Kingwa .


----------



## SP Wild

What a classic show, it aired in Australia for ages and was a huge part of my childhood.
   
  How about "Digital Timer".


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:  





> lack of asynchronous


 

 I'm not sure I understand, is the the comparison is between the asynchronous HiFace and the non-asynchronous (isosynchronous ?) USBface?
   
  USG


----------



## Currawong

I reckon he should call it the "Digital Monkey" and add AES I/O, at the very least because it sounds cool, at least to me!


----------



## SP Wild

They called the show Monkey Magic.
   
  How about "Monkey Magic Timer".


----------



## noinimod

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> Monkey King is what I think audio-gd should name the usbface, since it seems their chinese mythology named amps never get criticized, and sometimes the best way to describe things is with flowery descriptors. With some imagination you might see how the following short summary is reminiscent of the function of a usb reclocker, ie lack of asynchronous and how monkey behaves even though he gets the job done because of the headband (DSP device) .
> 
> http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/chinese-mythology.php?deity=MONKEY
> 
> ...


 
  I'm chinese and monkey king isn't exactly a cool mythical creature in asian culture, unlike a Phoenix.


----------



## SP Wild

Whadaya mean.  Monkey's the coolest!  Every child in Aus loved that show in that era.


----------



## haloxt

upstateguy, Yes, the usbface is not asynchronous while hiface is. Although the concept of asynchronous usb audio transfer has been around for years, only a handful of manufacturers use it because of the difficulty in writing the software.


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> upstateguy, Yes, the usbface is not asynchronous while hiface is. Although the concept of asynchronous usb audio transfer has been around for years, only a handful of manufacturers use it because of the difficulty in writing the software.


 

 Yeah and Kingwa says that not asynch devices like the one being tested will sound the same on all stations. and according to him, asynch is a concept that can sound good or bad depending on the station it used on.
   
  I think we should just call the unit MonkeyFace.


----------



## cravenz

heh. might as well call it PookieFace or something like that. But in all seriousness, it's outside design really doesn't have anything fun about it and would probably warrant a more serious name like DigitalConvert/Transit and some of the other stuff that has already been suggested.
   
  I love MonkeyFace, but the design just doesn't suit the name


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> upstateguy, Yes, the usbface is not asynchronous while hiface is. Although the concept of asynchronous usb audio transfer has been around for years, only a handful of manufacturers use it because of the difficulty in writing the software.


 

 It will be interesting so see if his non-async is going to be better than the HiFace async........

  
  Quote: 





cravenz said:


> heh. might as well call it PookieFace or something like that. But in all seriousness, it's outside design really doesn't have anything fun about it and would probably warrant a more serious name like DigitalConvert/Transit and some of the other stuff that has already been suggested.
> 
> I love MonkeyFace, but the design just doesn't suit the name


 

 I don't care for the word "monkey".  Doesn't seem to have the greatest connotations .....  as in throwing in a monkey wrench,  grease monkey, monkey business, monkey around. or spank the monkey......  I'd prefer a more serious name....my 2 cents. 
   
  I also don't care for the use of "Face" for the same reasons......  better to use the whole word, *interface*.


----------



## joseph k

Jkeny,
   
  Quote: 





> This is because the pin of a male 50ohm BNC is thicker than that of a 75ohm one.


 
   
  Unfortunately, Bruno is wrong here. It's simply not true, 75ohm BNC has exactly the same geometry as 50ohm BNC, center pin diameter included.
  This very same topic had been already discussed also at diyhifi.org, and clarified. BNC 50/75 ohm connectors are all interchangeable. I'm doing it daily. No damages.
   
  http://www.nexteklightning.com/resources/articles/Lightning%20protection%20of%2075O%20Impedance%20Lines.pdf
   
  ciao, George
   
  http://www.diyhifi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=42500#p42500


----------



## mmerrill99

Yes, Joseph K, I thought Bruno was wrong on a number of counts but thank you for this clarification - it seems that the centre pins of 50 & 75ohm BNC connectors were once of a different size but have been the same size since the 70's or 80's according to this discussion that I was given a link to http://www.radiobanter.com/showthread.php?t=151715&page=3
   
  Well, if I hadn't been disabled without notification from Diyhifi.org I might be able to follow your link to Diyhifi - I wouldn't recommend this forum based on my experience & on the personal abuse that was allowed to be posted about me by Jocko & others!


----------



## mmerrill99

Joseph k,
  One thing that has me confused is that on the Huber & Suhner 75 ohm attenuators that I have, the female end has white ring of insulation around the inside of the ground shield. This, I thought was a visual sign that the connector was of the 50 ohm variety, the 75 ohm not having any insulation on this ground shield? My 75 ohm minicircuits ones do not have this insulation. Can you clarify this in any way?
   
  This is the attenuator i have with 75 ohm on it's label. This same image is also used in the datasheet for the 75 ohm & 50 ohm part - doesn't give great confidence really.


----------



## joseph k

Nice find..
  And You are right, it's right there also on mine... (I have the same Huber &Suhner)
  And it's not 75ohm, that end of the connector, it's for sure. It's a 50ohm part in there.
  What to say, I don't think that they would not know what they are doing..
  Rather they have decided to take the risk, for some economy reasons?
   
  I had taken a look around in the lab - most of my other 75ohm parts  are OK,  insulator removed everywhere - BNC tee, male/ female connectors etc.


----------



## joseph k

I can try to measure this - it will be not simple, to demonstrate it, even with my Tek TDR.
  Because the shortness of the "deviant " part of the signal path, one needs a really high resolution system, very short rise time excitaton pulse, and very high speed sampling. The Tek stops at ~2.3 GHz bandwith, 150ps.
  150psec timing resolution gives ~3cm; or ~1" spatial resolution. Even if in practice one can go a bit below this, here we are talking about 5mm signal path length, which deviates downward from 75ohm to ~60-65ohm?, because the plastic will be partially interrupted anyway in the female connector, IF a real 75ohm female is connected.
   
  So: this "feature" of this attenuator will give, for 1/6th of 150psec, that is for a ~25psec  period, a ~20% impedance "glitch".
  To have a clear resolution of this, one should go for a <30psec rise time system. 35psec would be 10 GHz.
  The attenuator guaranteed to work from DC to 1GHz.
  I think this is the reason why Suhner do not care about it..
   
  I hope the above deduction also gives some hint about how much "paranoid" we should go..
  It's valid also for the Hiface..  which should work up to 200MHz.
   
  Ciao, George


----------



## joseph k

BUT, the above reasoning should not permit us to deduct that connectors do not count at all. IF we apply full 50 ohm connectors in a 75ohm system everywhere, that means the signal path will deviate for the full length of a mated connector pair, ~3cm, 1", from 75 to 50 ohm. And that starts to be visible even at 2nsec edges! (And clearly obvious on a TDR)
   
  Ciao, George


----------



## mmerrill99

Joseph K,
  Another thing you might have some idea about is the datasheet error on DIT4192 - I have the latest one SBOS229B – DECEMBER 2001 – REVISED JUNE 2003 (It's also the same on the DIT4096 datasheet )
   
  On page 4 the setting of CSS are given as Not Connected mode=0 software mode; mode=1 hardware mode 
 On page 8 & subsequent pages the settings are CSS = 0 hardware mode; CSS = 1 software mode.

 I have written to TI for clarification.
   
  PS can you connect a number of these attenuators together to make it easier for testing?


----------



## joseph k

Quote: 





> PS can you connect a number of these attenuators together to make it easier for testing?


 
   
  An attenuator can be divided into three parts: male input connector-attenuating body-female output connector.
  I suppose and ~~see, that the "body" is right impedance. The female is right as well, the only short glitch part is the male connector. The "defective" part is 5mm, the full body is 50mm.
  If I would connect them in series, it would be like this: glitch~25psec -- OK for ~225psec - glitch 25psec - OK for 225psec   etc etc..
   
  So no, it does not help. I had tried, for now I cannot point out a real difference, with this 150psec instrument.
   
  CSS - I did not work with this part yet, but:
   
  CSS is a "mode control" pin, used only in hardware mode. In software mode, it's not needed / do not exist, because:
   
   
  Quote: 





> In Software mode, the channel status data buffer is accessed through the serial control port


 
   
  So for me the data sheet is consequent in this.
   
  Ciao, George


----------



## mmerrill99

Looking up this evaluation board "SBAU103 – August 2004" seems to indicate that CS connected to ground puts it in hardware mode (if the datasheet on that board is correct )


----------



## joseph k

I think You are quite confused here? The Mode pin (pin 28) is controlling hard / software mode. It's fixed to "1", that is, hardware mode in that EV board.


----------



## mmerrill99

I'm not a bit confused at all, I think you might be however - the CSS pin setting determines how the channel status data is loaded either via hardware settings on pins 2, 3, 22, 23 or via software ie, sent as serial data. Totally separate from the mode setting of pin 28.


----------



## joseph k

Ok, now I start to understand Your original problem.
   
  BOTH the DIT as a whole AND the CSS pin itself can function in two modes: hardware/software.
   
  On page 4 of datasheet they refer to the MODE pin settings, so they refer to the  DIT  hard/soft mode.
  If MODE pin= 0  then it's software mode, but the whole DIT is in software mode, not the CSS. CSS does not exist in this mode.
   
  If MODE pin=1, then DIT is in hardware mode. Here we can start to look at CSS. But nobody said anything on page 4 about the meaning of CSS. It's defined only on page 8, and it's in hardware mode when CSS= 0. And so it is consistent with the EV board.


----------



## mmerrill99

Ah, yes I see that on pg 4 hardware/software refers to the setting of pin 28 MODE pin.
   
  And it's only in Hardware mode that the CSS pin settings are relevant - you are correct, george, I apologise!


----------



## shogo33

Any updates from Kingwa re: usbface?


----------



## shogo33

ahh...not sure about this but the USBFace unit is no longer advertised on the audio-gd website.  He did say he was going to 'kill' the idea if it wasnt better than a stock hiface unit... wandering..wandering..wandering..!


----------



## shadowlord

sad to hear that.
  But maybe they need a little time to tweak it.


----------



## Audio Bling

Quote: 





shogo33 said:


> ahh...not sure about this but the USBFace unit is no longer advertised on the audio-gd website.  He did say he was going to 'kill' the idea if it wasnt better than a stock hiface unit... wandering..wandering..wandering..!


 


[size=8pt]Are you _wandering _(as in a nomadic herder) or _wondering _(as in you are unsure)?[/size]
   
[size=8pt]The good news is that, according to Edwin at Audio gd, the USB chip on DAC-19 has just been improved. (Though I don't know the detail on what that improvement is..) [/size]
   
[size=8pt]More good news is that M2tech is soon to release their evo (in September). This, together with John Kenny’s modified Hiface, means that good things are happening in this area of audio. Wander about that.[/size]


----------



## Currawong

All Audio-gd products that have USB were upgraded to the 24/96 TE7022 as far as I can tell. It's supposed to give a bit better sound quality than the regular BB offerings.


----------



## shogo33

Quote: 





audio bling said:


> [size=8pt]Are you _wandering _(as in a nomadic herder) or _wondering _(as in you are unsure)?[/size]
> 
> [size=8pt]The good news is that, according to Edwin at Audio gd, the USB chip on DAC-19 has just been improved. (Though I don't know the detail on what that improvement is..) [/size]
> 
> [size=8pt]More good news is that M2tech is soon to release their evo (in September). This, together with John Kenny’s modified Hiface, means that good things are happening in this area of audio. Wander about that.[/size]


 
   
  Yes..as in 'wandering' around for a potential replacement for a hiface unit..  Had hopes for the usbface but no updates have been posted so far by audio-gd
   
  The Evo is out, but no reviews are out as of yet.  Last stop will be to send my hiface to jkenny to mod.. so yes, will 'wander' around for a while on this..


----------



## Audio Bling

Quote: 





shogo33 said:


> Yes..as in 'wandering' around for a potential replacement for a hiface unit..  Had hopes for the usbface but no updates have been posted so far by audio-gd
> 
> The Evo is out, but no reviews are out as of yet.  Last stop will be to send my hiface to jkenny to mod.. so yes, will 'wander' around for a while on this..


 

 If you are trying to decide whether to wait for the evo or go with the jkenny mod then we are both at the same point. It really annoys me that we have to go to this trouble and expense to correct USB->DAC interface problems. I wish DACs had the USB thing well and truly sorted by now.
   
  I have just ordered a DAC-19DSP. It promises an "improved USB chip". I have both an EA Off Ramp and modded Musiland 01USD with which to assess the claim. We shall see.
   
  Regards,


----------



## cravenz

Quote: 





shogo33 said:


> Yes..as in 'wandering' around for a potential replacement for a hiface unit..  Had hopes for the usbface but no updates have been posted so far by audio-gd
> 
> The Evo is out, but no reviews are out as of yet.  Last stop will be to send my hiface to jkenny to mod.. so yes, will 'wander' around for a while on this..


 

 If I'm not wrong, you can't send the units to jkenny anymore. You have to get the whole unit from him or buy it yourself now as customs as realised that there were a lot being sent over and will now confiscate any sent over to him for modification.


----------



## cravenz

Quote: 





audio bling said:


> If you are trying to decide whether to wait for the evo or go with the jkenny mod then we are both at the same point. It really annoys me that we have to go to this trouble and expense to correct USB->DAC interface problems. I wish DACs had the USB thing well and truly sorted by now.
> 
> I have just ordered a DAC-19DSP. It promises an "improved USB chip". I have both an EA Off Ramp and modded Musiland 01USD with which to assess the claim. We shall see.
> 
> Regards,


 

 Woops. Forgot to multi quote. Pardon me. Anyhow. When will you get the DAC19dsp? I'm quite interested in that and yes, I agree that the manufacturers themselves should have solved the usb interface issue earlier. Part of me thinks that it is all marketing anyways. Sell it as an external unit first seeing that the market will pay for it.


----------



## Audio Bling

Quote: 





cravenz said:


> Woops. Forgot to multi quote. Pardon me. Anyhow. When will you get the DAC19dsp? I'm quite interested in that and yes, I agree that the manufacturers themselves should have solved the usb interface issue earlier. Part of me thinks that it is all marketing anyways. Sell it as an external unit first seeing that the market will pay for it.


 

 Audio GD say they will ship the DAC-19DSP next Monday.. I also double-dipped into the piggy bank for a C-2. Perhaps they will arrive late next week. I hope they live up to the hype..


----------



## cravenz

Quote: 





audio bling said:


> Audio GD say they will ship the DAC-19DSP next Monday.. I also double-dipped into the piggy bank for a C-2. Perhaps they will arrive late next week. I hope they live up to the hype..


 

 good luck with that. I'm really considering that unit which is a stretch of the budget. I can't really go into the C-2 just yet. I was hoping to get something in by next Sat, but that looks unlikely now.


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





audio bling said:


> Audio GD say they will ship the DAC-19DSP next Monday.. I also double-dipped into the piggy bank for a C-2. Perhaps they will arrive late next week. I hope they live up to the hype..


 

 Considering the current season, you might want to note that Audio-gd gear is notorious for requiring at least 350 (or more) hours of "burn-in" and also benefits from a bit of warm-up time at least.  I've switched on gear even in the middle of Summer (let alone winter) to have it sound congested, for want of a better term, until it had been on for 30 minutes or so.  Since you've sprung for an ACSS-based rig, you'll get "the music" and no fancy coloration to try and fake it sounding amazing. If you like acoustic music especially, you'll likely love it.  I look forward to your impressions (I imagine in one of the other threads).


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote: 





audio bling said:


> If you are trying to decide whether to wait for the evo or go with the jkenny mod then we are both at the same point. It really annoys me that we have to go to this trouble and expense to correct USB->DAC interface problems. I wish DACs had the USB thing well and truly sorted by now.
> 
> I have just ordered a DAC-19DSP. It promises an "improved USB chip". I have both an EA Off Ramp and modded Musiland 01USD with which to assess the claim. We shall see.


 
   
  Yes I too dream of the day where I will not have to use any converters anymore. I hope that we can settle on a standard for PC users that can surpass S/PDIF.
  Did Kingwa actually tell you if his new USB implementation in his DACs are of better sound quality than his S/PDIF BNC coaxial?


----------



## tim3320070

USBFace is not gone- I am about to order one with the Ref-8 DAC as Kingwa says this sounds better than the built-in USB of the DAC. Not sure why as they use the same chip so must be the power filtering in the USBFace. No word on whether he thinks it's better than the HiFace.
  You might ask Kingwa about getting the Face with your order- probably still time.


----------



## punk_guy182

@tim3320070
   
  Are you getting yours with the external power supply?
  How much did it cost for the unit and the shipping?
  Do you know if Kingwa has made some changes since the original pictures were posted on the website 2 weeks ago?


----------



## tim3320070

I didn't know it had a separate power supply box, so don't know if that is included. He mentioned $100 but that may be the reduced combo price. I don't know the look of it yet either- trusting Kingwa all the way on this one.
  I will be selling my Ref-3 if anyone is interested.


----------



## Audio Bling

Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> Yes I too dream of the day where I will not have to use any converters anymore. I hope that we can settle on a standard for PC users that can surpass S/PDIF.
> Did Kingwa actually tell you if his new USB implementation in his DACs are of better sound quality than his S/PDIF BNC coaxial?


 

  
Kingwa didn’t say that. In fact, he didn’t say anything at all as I was communicating with his customer service man, Edwin. My guess is that the “improved USB chip” means nothing more than it is better than the old USB chip - which probably isn’t saying much. I expect that I will prefer the S/PDIF BNC coax interface but I live to be surprised.. 
 
Speaking of BNC, I asked Edwin if I could have a BNC socket fitted to the DAC-19DSP instead of the stock RCA. He said “sure” but that it would be a “chinese cheapie”. I told him not to worry.. I will replace it myself with a 75ohm Vampire BNC as I did on my Musiland. 
 
BTW. I got a mail from Marco of M2tech, in response to a query I had about the evo’s BNC. He assured me that the evo will in fact be fitted with a true 75ohm BNC. A pity Audio-GD does not do the same.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





cravenz said:


> If I'm not wrong, *you can't send the units to jkenny anymore.* You have to get the whole unit from him or buy it yourself now as *customs *as realised that there were a lot being sent over and* will now confiscate any sent over to him for modification.*


 

 Why will they confiscate?

  
  Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> I didn't know it had a separate power supply box, so don't know if that is included. He mentioned* $100 *but that may be the reduced combo price. I don't know the look of it yet either- trusting Kingwa all the way on this one.
> I will be selling my Ref-3 if anyone is interested.


 
   
  I don't see it on their site....  is it really for sale?
   
  USG


----------



## cravenz

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> Why will they confiscate?


 

 No clue, but he alluded to it on page 8 and page 9 of M2Tech HiFace Mods and Discussions thread.


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote: 





audio bling said:


> No, Qinghua (not Kingwa) didn’t say that. In fact, he didn’t say anything at all as I was communicating with his customer service man, Edwin. My guess is that the “improved USB chip” means nothing more than it is better than the old USB chip - which probably isn’t saying much. I expect that I will prefer the S/PDIF BNC coax interface but I live to be surprised..
> 
> Speaking of BNC, I asked Edwin if I could have a BNC socket fitted to the DAC-19DSP instead of the stock RCA. He said “sure” but that it would be a “chinese cheapie”. I told him not to worry.. I will replace it myself with a 75ohm Vampire BNC as I did on my Musiland.
> 
> BTW. I got a mail from Marco of M2tech, in response to a query I had about the evo’s BNC. He assured me that the evo will in fact be fitted with a true 75ohm BNC. A pity Audio-GD does not do the same.


 

 One thing I know for sure about his new USB chip is that it will work with 24bits/96kHz audio files. The previous one couldn't do that.
  Do you have a link for this true 75ohm Vampire socket? Is it PSB mounted and how hard was it to put it on the Musialnd. I'm thinking of doing the same for the hiFace.
   
  Auio-GD decided to make the BNC plug as identical as possible to the hiface on their USBface for comparaison purposes.


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> Why will they confiscate?
> 
> USG


 

 Ireland is apprently an economic fascist regime!


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> I don't see it on their site....  is it really for sale?
> 
> USG


 
  I guess it will be, but not on the site yet. I should not have put that price here- it was an estimate and I don't have a final quote. I can't imagine it being much more than $150ish as a stand alone purchase but I don't really know. The Ref-3 was $550 but it does so much more than the USBFace (DSP filter chip, upsampling, switching).


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> Ireland is apprently an economic fascist regime!


 

 You are absolutely correct there Matthieu - we are being run by a crowd of crooks who are protecting their friends & political donators from  bankruptcy by directing the taxpayers' money to them. I don't even know all the figures any more but we have gifted the banks something like 30 billion Euro in bailouts - most of the money we will never see again. Also we are in the process of buying all the bad debts from the banks & we are being lied to about the performance of these loans. Anyway, it's not a slump we are experiencing in Ireland it's the bankruptcy of a country & it's citizens are quietly accepting it all, no revolution, no riots, no lynchings - just lambs going to slaughter.
   
  Anyway, the customs/.revenue are part of this regime & have to extricate money from every nook & cranny. This includes anything that comes into the country. I had a customs guy at my door the other week because somebody had sent me a Hiface for modification from the US & declared it's value at $200. The charge for me was €48. Even if I didn't accept the package & told them to send it back, the same charge would apply. He was next going down the road with a wedding dress & a charge of €600. 
   
  Our Economic & Social Research Institute (ESRI) have just published figures that show Ireland has the biggest budget deficit in the developed world at just under 20% - you are watching a nation implode   All that will be left is a black hole - an economic one into which all money disappears. Watch out we are all going to emigrate again in droves as we have done in past history.


----------



## Audio Bling

Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> One thing I know for sure about his new USB chip is that it will work with 24bits/96kHz audio files. The previous one couldn't do that.
> Do you have a link for this true 75ohm Vampire socket? Is it PSB mounted and how hard was it to put it on the Musialnd. I'm thinking of doing the same for the hiFace.
> 
> Auio-GD decided to make the BNC plug as identical as possible to the hiface on their USBface for comparaison purposes.


 

  
  [size=medium]Here is a link to the Vampire socket. Yes, it is PCB mount. [/size]
[size=medium]http://www.partsconnexion.com/vampire_56013.html[/size]
   
  [size=medium]No problem fitting it to the Musiland 01USD as there is room enough to do so. I did not mount it to the PCB directly but only supported it by its collar and nut. However, keep in mind my comment from Marco of M2tech. According to him, all M2tech products have true 75ohm BNC fitted. [/size]
   
  [size=medium]I quote:[/size]
   
_[size=medium]“[/size]_
_[size=10pt]you're not the first one to discuss with us about BNC impedance. I can assure you that we use true 75 Ohms BNC connectors by Tyco. [..] There is yet another legend about white isolator BNC not being 75 Ohms... Color doesn't matter...[/size]_
_ _
_[size=10pt]Cheers,[/size]_
_ _
_[size=10pt]Marco[/size]_
_[size=medium]”[/size]_
   
  [size=medium]So this seems to be saying your Hiface already has true 75ohm fitted (assuming you have the BNC model). HTH.[/size]


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Seems like Kingwa as updated the webpage and the product is now simply called Digital Interface = http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USBface/Digital1EN.htm. The first 10 user will be sent the unit for a 2 week testing period.


----------



## cravenz

Quote: 





rhythmic_impulse said:


> Seems like Kingwa as updated the webpage and the product is now simply called Digital Interface = http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USBface/Digital1EN.htm. The first 10 user will be sent the unit for a 2 week testing period.


 

 not on the English site though. nvm. it's up and running and Kingwa still hasn't emailed me back about it. O well.


----------



## punk_guy182

I ordered mine with the external PSU box and replaced the RCA coaxial input for a TOSlink one.
  I'll ask Kingwa if he can swap the 50ohm BNC plug for a true 75ohm one like on the RE1.
  My desktop computer motherboard has the Realtek ALC889A audio controler which can output a bit perfect S/PDIF signal apparently. I have both TOSlink and coaxial RCA on my motherboard but I decided that I would be better off using TOSlink instead of RCA for computer applications like Foobar2000 in order to avoid electric and magnetic interferferences.
   
  I'll see what sounds better between USB and TOSlink on the Digital Interface.
  I hope that I won't have to invest in pricey USB cables to get the best out of this unit.
  I'm not familiar at all with the I2s standard but I read somewhere on the Audio-GD website that it would be I2s compatible. Does anyone know what are the benefits of I2s over S/PDIF and if the RE1 can recognize it? I wonder why Kingwa ditched ACSS for I2s... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'll compare the Digital Interface with the modified hiFace (jkeny mod) which has it's own PSU made of LiFePO4 batteries with and without T-Pad attenuators.


----------



## FauDrei

punk_guy182 said:


> I'll compare the Digital Interface with the modified hiFace (jkeny mod) which has it's own PSU made of LiFePO4 batteries with and without T-Pad attenuators.


 
  Yes please...


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> .............
> I'll compare the Digital Interface with the modified hiFace (jkeny mod) which has it's own PSU made of LiFePO4 batteries with and without T-Pad attenuators.


 
  That will be interesting, Mathieu - I look forward to hearing your impressions.


----------



## sk3383

Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> I ordered mine with the external PSU box and replaced the RCA coaxial input for a TOSlink one.
> I'll ask Kingwa if he can swap the 50ohm BNC plug for a true 75ohm one like on the RE1.
> My desktop computer motherboard has the Realtek ALC889A audio controler which can output a bit perfect S/PDIF signal apparently. I have both TOSlink and coaxial RCA on my motherboard but I decided that I would be better off using TOSlink instead of RCA for computer applications like Foobar2000 in order to avoid electric and magnetic interferferences.


 


 Thats the right choice. I find that most RCA S/PDIF outputs sound terrible at best. This is magnified when connected to a highly resolving DAC, you will hear a very filthy, noisy background that can be untolerable at times.
   
  Very interested to hear your comparisn.


----------



## haloxt

How about asking if they can replace the RCA OUTPUT to an optical input jack? If this can be done without too much trouble or sound degradation it may be preferable because you can just make a BNC>RCA cable if you need to connect it to a dac with RCA in and not BNC in, the only drawback would be just one output. I asked them earlier and they told me to ask when they finished testing, but I plan to get a ref 3 so won't be bothering them about it.


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> How about asking if they can replace the RCA OUTPUT to an optical input jack? If this can be done without too much trouble or sound degradation it may be preferable because you can just make a BNC>RCA cable if you need to connect it to a dac with RCA in and not BNC in, the only drawback would be just one output. I asked them earlier and they told me to ask when they finished testing, but I plan to get a ref 3 so won't be bothering them about it.


 

 Ok I've just asked him. This is a pretty good idea haloxt.
  Kingwa amazes me on how good he is with customer service.


----------



## squall343

*[size=x-small]Price:[/size][size=x-small]  Version A          USD190 [/size]*[size=x-small](With USB and coaxial input)[/size]
 [size=10pt]              [/size] *[size=x-small]Version B[/size]**[size=x-small]          USD140  [/size]*[size=x-small](Only USB input)
             [/size]* [size=small](The Digital Interface can work well by USB power supply ,The external power supply only for upgrade, not necessary .)[/size]*
 [size=x-small]*            Class A * [/size]  *[size=x-small]e[/size]*[size=x-small]*xternal power supply    USD75  *[/size] [size=x-small](Because the Digital Interface built in high performance class A PSU, so the external power supply has not much improve.)[/size]
   
  http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USBface/Digital1EN.htm
   
  Seem like the external power supply cost 75 usd but offer not much improvement?
   
  I guess i will wait for reviews from the first 10 testers before buying


----------



## keyboard

I will report soon.


----------



## Audio Bling

Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> I'll see what sounds better between USB and TOSlink on the Digital Interface.
> I hope that I won't have to invest in pricey USB cables to get the best out of this unit.
> I'm not familiar at all with the I2s standard but I read somewhere on the Audio-GD website that it would be I2s compatible. Does anyone know what are the benefits of I2s over S/PDIF and if the RE1 can recognize it?


 

  
[size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]My experience is that TOSlink is not a good audio interface. I think the issue is that the necessary chips out there in the marketplace are not that good. Anyway, I have always preferred the sound from S/PDIF. [/size][/size][/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt] [/size][/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]Benefits of I2S:[/size][/size][/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt] [/size][/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]I2S is the means by which the DAC chip communicates with the outside world. In other words, it is the DAC chip’s own “native” language. Somewhere in the digital playback chain music data is converted from one format e.g. raw data (if being read directly from CD) to I2S format to then be processed by the DAC chip. In my set-up, I store music on a HDD in wav file format. The wav is then transferred by the music player software (cPlay or whatever) to a digital interface device (like the Musiland) by a USB cable. The interface device will attempt to recover the data and re-clock it using its own internal clock so that the wave form can be properly reconstituted by the DAC chip at a later time. The digital interface device, however, typically has to convert the data (once again) to some format in order to talk to the DAC chip. If, however, the interface device is able to convert to I2S and then transmit this to the DAC chip then one can see that some conversions are eliminated. This kind of architecture also lends itself to the idea that the DAC chip is effectively being slaved to the (precision) clock in the digital device. [/size][/size][/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt] [/size][/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]What is a further development is for the digital interface device to control what the computer is doing to some degree. This is what Musiland and M2tech try to do. The ideal being that all three elements (DAC, interface device, and PC) are more or less tied together and running off the one precision clock somewhere in the chain (usually the interface device). However, what Audio-GD (I think) has done in the DSP-3 is avoid the issue of PC control preferring to focus on other areas. I can understand this if only because I can see that the murky waters of PC software development are expensive and deep. Of course Audio-GD could do what Empirical Audio has done and license the software from M2tech. But that could potentially add another US$300 to the cost if one were to use Empirical Audio as a yard stick. But you never know, there will likely be a DSP-4 one day..[/size][/size][/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt] [/size][/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]RE1:[/size][/size][/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt] [/size][/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]I don’t know if the RE1 can accept I2S from the DSP-3. According to Kingwa, the DAC-19DSP can. Perhaps you could ask him.[/size][/size][/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt] [/size][/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]A further note: [/size][/size][/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt] [/size][/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]It is said that I2S was never designed for “distance travelling”. What this means is that it was never meant to connect separate devices together and that if you do so you are likely to corrupt the I2S signal. I don't have the experience to make a comment. Nevertheless, I am keen to give I2S a go.[/size][/size][/size]


----------



## mmerrill99

Although I2S doesn't have the problems of SPDIF as regards the clock being embedded with the data & it's recovery, it has as many issues as SPDIF (If not more) with regard to cables i.e. impedance issues & length of cable, etc. SO it's no panacea AFAIK.


----------



## keyboard

I was advised by Kingwa that the PSU was not necessary as the Interface provided several transistor PSU's which would easily clean the power.
  i ordered the B version because I don't see myself ever using the interface with a BNC input.


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote: 





audio bling said:


> [size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]My experience is that TOSlink is not a good audio interface. I think the issue is that the necessary chips out there in the marketplace are not that good. Anyway, I have always preferred the sound from S/PDIF. [/size][/size][/size]
> [size=10pt][size=10pt] [/size][/size]
> [size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]RE1:[/size][/size][/size]
> [size=10pt][size=10pt] [/size][/size]
> ...


 
   
  Kingwa says that adding a third input would require a switch and that would degrade the SQ of both coaxial and TOSlink and regarding the SQ he prefers coaxial input over TOSlink on the Digital Interface. I guess I'll just scrap the TOSlink input and stick with the stock version.
  Also, Kingwa confirmed to me that the RE1 can accept I2s.
  According to him, I2s has no ground insulation between 2 gears and it is better to keep it on short distances.


----------



## Yoga Flame

Here's a crazy idea: TCP/IP!
   
  I've never heard of jitter, impedance, reflection, or re-clocking issues with my net connection. And it handles bit-perfect audio streaming over long distances just fine. As a bonus, we'd be able to use regular ethernet hubs/switches with our DACs and transports too. Not to mention wi-fi. Ethernet interfaces can be pretty inexpensive as well.
   
  Something tells me I can't have been the first one to think of this. I wonder why no one does this.
  
  Quote: 





jkeny said:


> Although I2S doesn't have the problems of SPDIF as regards the clock being embedded with the data & it's recovery, it has as many issues as SPDIF (If not more) with regard to cables i.e. impedance issues & length of cable, etc. SO it's no panacea AFAIK.


----------



## JulioCat2

oh no!!!! You never hear about software jitter, jitter induced by network delays packet colissions etc, on cable or wifi??? Ehernet is an option but not the perfect one.


----------



## ulyses

There is also jitter on TCP/IP too. So, modems has their own buffers and correction algorithms. We can't notice that jitter because timing is not so important on data transfer. Also online sound streams has very low quality compared to hi-fi streams. But ethernet interface can still  a proper solution (Some professional equipment using it if I remember correctly)


----------



## punk_guy182

@Yoga Flame
   
  I think that you should share your idea to Kingwa at Audio-GD [size=13.5pt]audio-gd@126.com[/size]
  I'd like to know what he has to say about this.


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote: 





yoga flame said:


> Here's a crazy idea: TCP/IP!
> 
> I've never heard of jitter, impedance, reflection, or re-clocking issues with my net connection. And it handles bit-perfect audio streaming over long distances just fine. As a bonus, we'd be able to use regular ethernet hubs/switches with our DACs and transports too. Not to mention wi-fi. Ethernet interfaces can be pretty inexpensive as well.
> 
> Something tells me I can't have been the first one to think of this. I wonder why no one does this.


 

 Squeezebox, anyone?


----------



## Yoga Flame

Quote: 





juliocat2 said:


> oh no!!!! You never hear about software jitter, jitter induced by network delays packet colissions etc, on cable or wifi??? Ehernet is an option but not the perfect one.


 
   

  That's a good point. Net connections do have their share of problems. It's a pretty crowded network out there after all.
   
  But within my home LAN I have had zero issues. I'm sure there are still dropped packets and collisions on my local network, but it's all transparent to me since TCP/IP has error correction built into the protocol. The end result for me is that data is sent and received bit-perfect.


  Quote: 





jkeny said:


> Squeezebox, anyone?


 

 I guess that qualifies as an example. Not exactly what I had in mind though. Devices like Squeezebox and Airport Express function as DACs, and must replace the existing one in the typical audiophile rig. Or they might have digital outputs for a dedicated DAC, using SPDIF,  which is back to square one.
   
  Perhaps if the Squeezebox type of device had an I2S output. We could sit it right next to the dedicated DAC where the distance wouldn't be an issue. Still, the ideal scenario as I see it would be for all DAC manufacturers to adopt ethernet as a standard input.


----------



## Yoga Flame

Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> @Yoga Flame
> 
> I think that you should share your idea to Kingwa at Audio-GD [size=13.5pt][ ... ][/size]
> I'd like to know what he has to say about this.


 

 I will leave that to his regular correspondents here. I too am interested in his take on that, but I'm here merely out of curiosity and am not really in the market for a transport at the moment.


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> Kingwa says that adding a third input would require a switch and that would degrade the SQ of both coaxial and TOSlink and regarding the SQ he prefers coaxial input over TOSlink on the Digital Interface. I guess I'll just scrap the TOSlink input and stick with the stock version.
> Also, Kingwa confirmed to me that the RE1 can accept I2s.
> According to him, I2s has no ground insulation between 2 gears and it is better to keep it on short distances.


 
   
  I guess I will check with Kingwa about the I2s connection with the DAC-19 and how it can be done as I am hoping to test the Digital Interface with the FUN and DAC-19/C-2 soon.


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote: 





rhythmic_impulse said:


> I guess I will check with Kingwa about the I2s connection with the DAC-19 and how it can be done as I am hoping to test the Digital Interface with the FUN and DAC-19/C-2 soon.


 
   
  Here is the picture on how to set the DSP3 to input/output an I2s or S/PDIF signal:
   


 From what I understand, all Audio-GD DACs that have DSP1 can accept an I2s signal.
  This is what Kingwa told me regarding the teh Reference one DAC (RE1) which has DSP1 accepting an I2s signal.
  Quote: 





> The RE1 without switch so if you want I2S input you must cancel the coaxial input,
> The DSP3   MCK----DSP1  MCK
> DSP3  WCK-------DSP1 LRCK
> DSP3 BCK--------DSP1 BCK
> ...


----------



## keyboard

Would you be saying we have to remove the red rectangles,could you please explain.


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote: 





keyboard said:


> Would you be saying we have to remove the red rectangles,could you please explain.


 

 I'm still trying to figure that one out.


----------



## Currawong

I don't think so.  The I2S outputs are at the ends of the red lines, so that would be the solder joins you see at the end of the brow resistors at the bottom of the picture.  The other instructions are the settings for the block of DIP switches on the right.  You can see the labels for them printed for each switch in white on the circuit board to the left of the red DIP switch block.


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote: 





currawong said:


> I don't think so.  The I2S outputs are at the ends of the red lines, so that would be the solder joins you see at the end of the brow resistors at the bottom of the picture.  The other instructions are the settings for the block of DIP switches on the right.  You can see the labels for them printed for each switch in white on the circuit board to the left of the red DIP switch block.


 

 You also need to have a ground wire running along side or in a twisted pair with each I2S line - I presume the interleaved solder points are grounds?


----------



## Currawong

Yup, GND would be ground.  With a bit of case work, I could probably build one of these into my Ref 1 and connect it up using I2S. Not sure it'd be worth it though.


----------



## keyboard

I did ask Kingwa about the external power suppy,he said
   
  The external power supply slight improve on SQ, but the Digital Interface already built in a lot Class A power supply, so the improve not very much.


----------



## keyboard

I'am expecting Kingwa includes some instructions along with the Digital Interface.


----------



## mmerrill99

Any idea what impedance cable you will be using with I2S - it needs consideration, just as SPDIF cable does.


----------



## Zorlac

I am starting to have my doubts with this...
   
  No asynchronous USB mode
  No custom driver
  No 75 Ohm BNC (only 50 Ohm)
   
  I think the modded Jkeny hiFace or EVO is probably the better choice.
   
  Also, if we use the optional class A external power supply, how does the USB cable stop supplying power??


----------



## FauDrei

There are four contacts on USB cable, one of them is carrying 5V. Take a wild guess.
   
  (hint: how do the wall sockets stop supplying power?)


----------



## keyboard

Kingwa has been very open about his product the digital interface right from the start, there is no need for the external power.If the manufacturer says that I feel it would be foolish on our end to get one.


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





zorlac said:


> I am starting to have my doubts with this...
> 
> No asynchronous USB mode
> No custom driver
> ...


 

 Hey, go with the 'tested by a handful' product that needs software support vs established audio designer and get back to us with the results. And explain to us how 50ohm is worse please.


----------



## Zorlac

I didnt mean to dis Kingwa in any way. He has awesome gear and customer service (in fact, I have been a customer and plan to buy more). I was just pointing out issues coming from the M2Tech hiFace side of things when it comes to digital interfaces. I have been reading several hiFace threads and the three issues I pointed out would be red flags to the hiFace crowd in my opinion. I am definitely excited to read reviews on this new Audio-gd kit though.


----------



## FauDrei

I hear you Zorlac.
   
  In my correspondence with him and with his products that I've bought in last year he earned respect and trust from me. So if he is confident that Digital Interface (DI) can complement RE-1 and that it can compete with hiFace - that is enough for me to experiment $140 and see for myself how it stacks up with modded/attenuated hiFace.
   
  Further, I'm planing to use his DI in my I2S experiments and I'm trying to persuade him to put a nice socket for I2S connection on it instead of RCA SPDIF input.


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> ........................ And explain to us how 50ohm is worse please.


 

 Can I explain? The SPDIF standard for transmission is 75ohm. That means all devices & cables used for SPDIF should be 75ohm. What happens if 75ohm is not used? Just like any wave when it encounters an obstacle it will generate a back reflection & also cut down the amount of energy in the wave passing beyond the obstacle. The energy issue isn't such a big problem but the reflections are. Just as in a wave machine the reflections superimpose on top of the original wave & we no longer have a clean SPDIF signal (yes high speed signals are treated as waves in cables). This can cause jitter - it's that simple! That's why/how 50 ohm is worse!


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





jkeny said:


> Can I explain? The SPDIF standard for transmission is 75ohm. That means all devices & cables used for SPDIF should be 75ohm. What happens if 75ohm is not used? Just like any wave when it encounters an obstacle it will generate a back reflection & also cut down the amount of energy in the wave passing beyond the obstacle. The energy issue isn't such a big problem but the reflections are. Just as in a wave machine the reflections superimpose on top of the original wave & we no longer have a clean SPDIF signal (yes high speed signals are treated as waves in cables). This can cause jitter - it's that simple! That's why/how 50 ohm is worse!


 

 Do you have some exact measurements you can show us about how much jitter is caused by this and how exactly it will affect the audio signal?  I'm asking because I see a crap-load of talk about interfaces, cables, jitter, types of USB and other stuff, but so far, no actual measurements from anyone* showing exactly how much this stuff matters, or doesn't.  This would be helpful, as people are picking this kind of chatter up who have no genuine idea what it means and spouting it as if they do know, which they don't.  Actual data would be helpful to everyone, as then this stuff wouldn't be rumour and speculation but hard fact upon which we could make sane decisions about what we buy and what we'll actually get from it.
   
*Kingwa did, a long while back, state that he chose coax and RCA on his high-end DACs as they had the lowest jitter of all the interfaces he measured and he has occasionally post pictures of what his oscilloscope shows with regards to things, but nothing beyond that.


----------



## regal

This looks like an isochronous usb with an asynicrous resampler,  similiar to the units audio alchemy used to sell to "clean-up" spdif.   Interesting means of dealing with USB but the jitter will only be as low as the resampler.  As far as the 50 ohm BNC,  just swap it out for a 75 ohm BNC and quit arguing about it,  will cost $5 and 10 minutes.  I imiagine it won't be bitperfect (ie pass HDCD or DTS tests.)


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





jkeny said:


> Can I explain? The SPDIF standard for transmission is 75ohm. That means all devices & cables used for SPDIF should be 75ohm. What happens if 75ohm is not used? Just like any wave when it encounters an obstacle it will generate a back reflection & also cut down the amount of energy in the wave passing beyond the obstacle. The energy issue isn't such a big problem but the reflections are. Just as in a wave machine the reflections superimpose on top of the original wave & we no longer have a clean SPDIF signal (yes high speed signals are treated as waves in cables). This can cause jitter - it's that simple! That's why/how 50 ohm is worse!


 
  Okay, point out how it sounds worse. If it's worse, why would Kingwa use it? I doubt he would skimp here for a few dollars.


----------



## regal

Because in average most people don't have a trued 75 ohm cable, receptacal, and load is my guess,   or he is just copying what he saw on the hiface.  Don't think that Kingwa is infallable, no one is.  Fact is it should be a 75 ohm jack,  just change it,  $5 and 10 minutes,  not worth three pages of discussion.
   
  Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> Okay, point out how it sounds worse. If it's worse, why would Kingwa use it? I doubt he would skimp here for a few dollars.


----------



## leeperry

tim3320070 said:


> why would Kingwa use it? I doubt he would skimp here for a few dollars.


 
  For a very good reason, actually: http://hifiduino.wordpress.com/2010/03/30/some-audio-wisdom/


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> For a very good reason, actually: http://hifiduino.wordpress.com/2010/03/30/some-audio-wisdom/


 

 Did you only read the post & not the comment under it? As that commentator says & I've red it from others that use these connectors in the business - there is NO difference in pin sizes between 50 & 75ohm & there has't been since the 20 or 30 years


----------



## leeperry

jkeny said:


> Did you only read the post & not the comment under it? As that commentator says & I've red it from others that use these connectors in the business - there is NO difference in pin sizes between 50 & 75ohm & there has't been since the 20 or 30 years


 

 Yes, I did read the blog comment, but the guy saying it is Bruno Putzeys: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruno_Putzeys
   
  I know everyone can self-proclaim himself  as being a first rate expert on the internet, but he seems like he knows what he's talking about...anyway, yes it'll take 5 mins to swap it for a 75Ω so it's essentially a non-issue.
   
  He also believes that a 50 or 75Ω connector doesn't really matter as long as the cable is 75Ω...I guess he ran some tests using high grade measurement gear before saying that?
   
  Whether the audio industry is right or not is not really the issue here IMHO, what stands true is that they all go 50Ω because they seem to believe that using 75Ω female connectors would drastically increase their RMA rates...and OCD'ed ppl can "fix" this non-issue in a matter of minutes anyway.
   
  But I don't think you can solder a 75Ω connector, as solder will add resistance...so swapping it will -most likely- still not yield a true 75Ω connection, hah. The 75Ω RCA connectors from Canara cannot be soldered.


----------



## haloxt

From what I understand, the 50 ohm connector was only used for comparison to the hiface. Correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## leeperry

sadly, Marco says that the BNC on the Hiface is indeed 75Ω: http://www.tycoelectronics.com/commerce/DocumentDelivery/DDEController?Action=showdoc&DocId=Catalog+Section%7F1307191_BNC_Connectors%7F0307%7Fpdf%7FEnglish%7FENG_CS_1307191_BNC_Connectors_0307.pdf
   
  I love how S/PDIF is ±30yo: http://www.epanorama.net/documents/audio/spdif.html
   
  yet still a bloody mess to implement properly in 2010, and they didn't even pay any attention to the stellar jitter you get over toslink, hah.


----------



## Omega17TheTrue

Just need a IS2 input/output made for his dacs so no need for spdif, only for other brands, also it seem slim.a is a tester or i may be wrong.


----------



## Zorlac

So lets make sure the testers ask for an ethernet connector for I2S that will work with Kingwa's DACs and he can start adding I2S ethernet connectors to those upon request.


----------



## Audio Bling

Quote: 





zorlac said:


> So lets make sure the testers ask for an ethernet connector for I2S that will work with Kingwa's DACs and he can start adding I2S ethernet connectors to those upon request.


 

  
[size=10pt]Sorry, I don't think it is that simple.. [/size]
   
[size=10pt]Kingwa will not say that I2S is a better connection in practical terms. He does say that I2S presents a host of problems (as has already been discussed elsewhere on this thread). [/size]
   
[size=10pt]According to Kingwa:[/size]
_[size=10pt]“I2S [is] not a world standard, it [..] has different sockets, different logic level between different manufacturer, and it is limit[ed by] the transmit distance, so I don't think [..] [it is a practical interface].”[/size]_
   
[size=10pt]DSP-3 t[/size][size=10pt]esters, I think, will need to focus on the connections provided on the unit i.e. coax and USB in / coax out. However, I am curious and will want to give I2S a try. (Indeed, Kingwa is supportive of this.) At this stage, I don't expect I2S to better coax. But if it does I will be delighted and report accordingly.[/size]


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> From what I understand, the 50 ohm connector was only used for comparison to the hiface. Correct me if I'm wrong.


 

 You are correct! the BNC socket on the DI is a cheapie from chinese manufacturer that avertizes it as 75ohms but Kingwa thinks it is 50ohms. The Canare sockets on his DACs that are 100% 75ohms do not fit on the DI chassis.
  Kingwa has told me that he did many listening tests and he does prefer the sound of a true BNC 75ohms connection. After that came 50ohms BNC and at last RCA. He measured the impedance of RCA and the signal fluctuates a lot. It can be as low as 30ohms and as high as 100ohms so that's no good.


----------



## haloxt

Is DI going to have real 75 ohm connector or the cheap one that may be fake 75 ohm?


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> Is DI going to have real 75 ohm connector or the cheap one that may be fake 75 ohm?


 
  So far it is the cheap one but once tests are complete he might swap it for something better.
  Don't forget guys that this is the test version and that the final product might be different.


----------



## haloxt

Oops my bad. Never thought audio-gd would actually put 50 ohm connectors on products for customers even if they are testing it. I hope they will send current testers the 75 ohm connectors later, if its even possible to put on.


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> Oops my bad. Never thought audio-gd would actually put 50 ohm connectors on products for customers even if they are testing it. I hope they will send current testers the 75 ohm connectors later, if its even possible to put on.


 

 Like I said no because the Canare ones don't fit on the chassis and he also chose those 50 ohms sockets because he thinks that they are the same as the ones on the hiface. He wants to do some comparaison tests between the  hiface and the DI and that's why he choose the testers who had the hiface unit.


----------



## Audio Bling

Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> He wants to do some comparaison tests between the  hiface and the DI and that's why he choose the testers who had the hiface unit.


 

 What do you mean by this?


----------



## punk_guy182

HE (KINGWA) WANTS TO KNOW HOW GOOD THE DI (AUDIO-GD DIGITAL CONVERTER) SOUNDS COMPARED TO THE HIFACE.
  HE PICKED UP THE TESTERS WHO OWNS A HIFACE AND THAT CAN COMPARE BOTH UNITS TO SEE WHICH PERFORMS BETTER.
  HE WANTS THE TESTERS TO REPORT THEIR FINDINGS IN THIS FORUM WHETHER THE DI OUTPERFORMS THE HIFACE OR NOT.
  THAT MEANS HE WANTS TO SEE REVIEWS OF THE DI POSTED HERE EVEN IF THEY ARE NEGATIVE.


----------



## haloxt

Okay we get it . Thanks a lot for giving us the information, clears up a lot of questions I had.


----------



## FauDrei

Mathieu, your Caps Lock stuck or something?


----------



## leeperry

punk_guy182 said:


> (KINGWA) WANTS TO KNOW HOW GOOD THE DI (AUDIO-GD DIGITAL CONVERTER) SOUNDS COMPARED TO THE HIFACE.


 

 AND HE EXPECTS THE TESTERS TO PAY THE FULL SHIPPING COSTS TO MAINLAND CHINA BOTH ENDS, THAT'S WHAT I CALL DEDICATION...ESPECIALLY IF YOU WANNA TRY THE DPS


----------



## Audio Bling

Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> HE (KINGWA) WANTS TO KNOW.. _[ETC.]_.


 


 Thanks p_g (punk_guy182). But you make it sound like he (Kingwa) is only interested in how the DI (Audio-gd digital converter) compares to the hiface? Surely not all the testers have a hiface..? Do you know for sure?


----------



## punk_guy182

Well I don't know for sure but I think that he is using the hiface as the reference and he wants to know what people think of the DI compared to the hiface. Maybe some testers might not have the hiface but they are using some other device to compare. The hiface is the most performant and popular device for 100-200 USD price range IMO and I understand why he uses it as a point of reference.
  If people are disatsified with the DI or if he thinks that it is not popular enough, he will abandon it just like he did with the Audio-GD Panther power amp.
   
  Anyhow, I'm not stating facts so I can't be sure at 100% but if that's what you're looking for I suggest that you ask the man himself. What I'm stating here is my understanding based on emails I exchanged with Kingwa.


----------



## Audio Bling

Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> Well I don't know for sure.. _[etc.]_


 

 Well said! Glad you fixed your caps lock, too.
   
  BTW. I don't have a hiface


----------



## punk_guy182

Oh ok so you're saying that you are one of the testers and that you don't have the hiface?
  If so, will you compare it with another type of device?
   
  Just so you know, I didn't pull this info out of my imagination. It is based from what he told me.
   
   
  Peace!


----------



## shogo33

I do have a BNC hiface, so will use that as my baseline to the my DAC3SE.  I think the dac has clocked around 200+ hrs now, so the sound should be pretty settled in.. would love to clock another 200+ hrs but as a beta tester for DI, i'll make this a point when doing my review in a couple of weeks time.


----------



## Audio Bling

Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> [..]
> If so, will you compare it with another type of device?
> [..]


 

  
[size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]If and when I get it I will compare with EA Off-Ramp and Musiland Monitor 01USD. The 01USD has a Vampire BNC fitted and uses a linear PS. The Musiland is amazing for the price while the Off-Ramp is an amazing price, IMO. Currently, I run a cMP2 box (fully optimised with linear PS) > Musiland > Custom made DAC (based on AD1955 chip + ZAPfilter analogue stage) > Burson Buffer > Supratek Sauvignon > Blue Circle BC26 > Thiel CS3.6. I am not a "can man" but I have just purchased (but not yet received) a DAC-19DSP + C-2. Perhaps I should have purchased a Reference 1 or Reference 7 rather than the DAC-19 but the thing is a few weeks ago I had never heard of Audio-gd. Hopefully, the DAC-19 will give me a taste for what the excitement has been about.[/size][/size][/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt] [/size][/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]I think Kingwa can be pleased with all the chat the DSP-3 "testing process" is generating. People are speculating and talking about it. I think that's OK so long as we don't get carried away. I hope the DSP-3 is good (I will be getting it with the PS). For that matter, I hope both John Kenny's modified hiface and the upcoming evo are good too. The more products of quality that come to market, the better. It means Kingwa et al will have to lift their game and keep prices down.[/size][/size][/size]


----------



## GWorlDofSPACE

Hi guys,
   
  I am one of the testers.
  Kingwa told me he is trying to put real 75ohm BNC sockets on the converter.
  The manufacturer has declared that the sockets Kingwa uses are 75ohm but he does not think so.
  The same are on hi-face so they should be also not true 75ohm sockets!!!
  The interfaces will be shipped at the end of this month, he says.
   
  I think that the reference here is hi-face but KINGWA would never send the units out to test when,
  they would not be shore in the quality of their product. I read a lot of hi-face reviews and its not a perfect
  solution. For me the major factor is if the sound after it becomes more natural, easy flowing as analogue sources sound like.


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote: 





gworldofspace said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I am one of the testers.
> Kingwa told me he is trying to put real 75ohm BNC sockets on the converter.
> ...


 

 See, I don't understand this - can Kingwa give a reason as to why he thinks these sockets aren't 75ohm?  Has he tested them because there is no other way. I think it is a bit disingenuous of him to say this about the Hiface without good reason or evidence to back it up - it is the equivalent of dissing the other product & it's designers (they didn't know that it wasn't a 75 ohm socket but I do). I don't think this is fair really, do you?
   
  Now he might have strong evidence to back this up but all we are hearing is a campaign of whispers so please let's put this to bed - is there evidence that this is not a 75ohm socket?


----------



## FauDrei

While not perfect, LiFePO4 battery modded hiFace with attenuators is the best USB audio interface I've tried. I'm talking about pretty high quality transport which is thoroughly "vaccinated" against known forms of "digititis".
   
  Matching it's standard would be quite a feat. Implementing such interface IN a DAC would be fantastic.


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





jkeny said:


> See, I don't understand this - can Kingwa give a reason as to why he thinks these sockets aren't 75ohm?  Has he tested them because there is no other way. I think it is a bit disingenuous of him to say this about the Hiface without good reason or evidence to back it up - it is the equivalent of dissing the other product & it's designers (they didn't know that it wasn't a 75 ohm socket but I do). I don't think this is fair really, do you?
> 
> Now he might have strong evidence to back this up but all we are hearing is a campaign of whispers so please let's put this to bed - is there evidence that this is not a 75ohm socket?


 

 Ask him.  His email address is on the web site. 
   
  Also, don't forget that you're a Member of the Trade with an indirect financial interest in the Hiface, which affects the kinds of things you can say about products from other manufacturers.


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote: 





currawong said:


> Ask him.  His email address is on the web site.
> 
> Also, don't forget that you're a Member of the Trade with an indirect financial interest in the Hiface, which affects the kinds of things you can say about products from other manufacturers.


 
  I'm well aware that I'm a member of the trade (as you continuously point out ) But I'm not the one making any claims about another's products, Kingwa is so I believe your comment should be directed at him or those who are apparently reporting his statements. I think this should be put to rest now & clarified - it's not my place to do so!


----------



## mmerrill99

Changed my sig so nobody is confused about my status.


----------



## shogo33

Quote: 





audio bling said:


> [size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]I think Kingwa can be pleased with all the chat the DSP-3 "testing process" is generating. People are speculating and talking about it. I think that's OK so long as we don't get carried away. I hope the DSP-3 is good (I will be getting it with the PS). For that matter, I hope both John Kenny's modified hiface and the upcoming evo are good too. The more products of quality that come to market, the better. It means Kingwa et al will have to lift their game and keep prices down.[/size][/size][/size]


 

 True.. just becareful not to let other's polarise the opinions of testers.  I have no vested interest in both units, at the end one of them must go!... But i'm not pleased with the fact that the hiface is dependant upon software, but then again its a usb to spdif converter 'duh'.. and needs a pc/laptop to be used in conjunction with the unit.  The DI on the other hand is a more flexible option, offering both USB & Coax inputs and external power.  For my needs, this is a more flexible option as it allows me to send the spdif digital out from my cdp as well as from my laptop (not in parallel)..


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





jkeny said:


> Changed my sig so nobody is confused about my status.


 

 Good on you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Don't know why the admins haven't put a tag in your profile yet though.

  
  Quote: 





jkeny said:


> I'm well aware that I'm a member of the trade (as you continuously point out ) But I'm not the one making any claims about another's products, Kingwa is so I believe your comment should be directed at him or those who are apparently reporting his statements. I think this should be put to rest now & clarified - it's not my place to do so!


 

 You're asking for clarification, I'm telling you where to get it.  Nobody here other than Kingwa himself (his username is "audio-gd") can answer you.  I have written the same thing to many people who post asking on the forums for answers to tricky questions when they should be emailing their questions to the source.  I really don't understand why people often ask the wrong people in the wrong place, not just you and not just about Audio-gd.


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote: 





currawong said:


> Good on you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Well, if he is a member here, he surely knows by now that there is some confusion & concern over his statement so I would think the onus is on him & I'm surprised he hasn't posted about it. What would it look like if I emailed him - got an answer & posted it here with my obvious interest in the Hiface?
   
  I really don't think a manufacturer can make a statement about another product's apparent flaw & not back up how he arrived at his damaging conclusion, do you? It really is not good practise! I know it has generated more posts & wasted more bandwith then is necessary.


----------



## Currawong

He's not confident with his English is my understanding of why he doesn't post. 
   
  Anyway, while I was doing the washing, I thought of a bunch of stuff I wanted to write so you can understand why I'm posting.
   
  The Hiface has clearly become one of the latest FOTMs on Head-fi.  I don't think this is a bad thing, as people are always seeking system upgrades that make a worthy improvement for the money.  The trouble that has come along with it is a lot of discussion about digital interfaces and whatnot, much of it vague, and much of it based on things other people have written, which may or may not have been based on other things found online, but without any actual solid understanding behind it.  In other words, people are talking out of their arses, bigtime.  And it's confusing people.  I just saw a post in another thread where someone said he wasn't going to consider a particular DAC because he'd picked up the idea that it was no good without a Hiface as well, which went over his budget.  Also, someone was asking about a cheap DAC/amp, whether they should spend almost as much as the device on a Hiface to go with it. What the ****?  Seriously.  But it gives you an idea just how stupid this has started to become.  Actually, I tell a lie, it has been stupid for a long while now, to the point that people who had no idea what they were talking about, tried to tell Dan Lavry about digital.  _That_ is hilariously bad.
   
  Now that leads us to the subject of this very topic.  Kingwa, I believe, is an honest and straight-up guy who, from all my correspondence with him, seems to know his stuff.  That doesn't mean, of course, his gear can't be criticised (his original case-work, for example, was not so great, but that's another matter), but he is, as should be obvious, is open to feedback.  He does tend to build stuff based on that, and at speeds which, considering the technology he uses, does seem rather amazing.  I asked him about balanced headphone amps once.  Just a casual enquiry.  Next thing we knew, a month or two later, he announced a balanced amp.  Anyway, seems people have asked him about all sorts of gear, including a digital interface, as we are now talking about one. He's very keen on getting feedback, so he tends to send stuff out for free for people to try.  He doesn't want to build crap (it took 2 years after our first request for him to build a good, entry-level DAC/amp below $250 for this very reason) and he refused outright to put an optical input in my Reference 1, which at the time was his best DAC, because he didn't want to add anything that would negatively impact on the sound.  His measurements of the various inputs put BNC and RCA at the lowest jitter levels compared to AES and optical, so that's what he designed in.  He has relented now (see the Reference 7), but the point is, he doesn't do things without a reason. You need to ask him directly his reasons though.  I've been surprised to find he has reasons for even the simplest things he does which didn't seem good to me.
   
  So what we have, ultimately, is, on the one hand, experienced and qualified MOTs on one side (I'm thinking of quite a few people here when I write this) and a bunch of forum idiots (me included to some degree, i admit it) talking their arses on the other side, and influencing other members with BS on the other. Sometimes the things the qualified MOTs say causes confusion (especially if, as with one MOT, they are obsessed with jitter) as digital audio is incredibly complex.
   
  Now, jkeny, don't take this the wrong way, but as an observation (maybe I should be PM'ing you this not posting it here): I've noticed you've been banned from one forum already, and I can see from the way you post, why.  Already a thread you've contributed to heated debate in on here has been closed and you're close to, if not actually breaking the rules with the posts you're making in this thread (and, now I think of it, your signature DOES break the forum rules -- you do need your proper MOT tag).  What I do see is, while on the one hand, your contribution to Hiface mod discussion is great (this kind of thing is one of the great aspects of Head-fi, that people will show others how to improve the sound of their gear cheaply) on the other hand, I see you talking out your arse about digital things based on info from others and you're going around trashing discussion, whether you're aware of it or not.  Honestly, who gives a toss about whether a connector is exactly 75 Ohms?  The point of one of my previous posts, where I asked you if you'd measured the jitter difference (I know you can not, reliably, without spending a large amount of money) was to point out that, really, the whole discussion of it is BS, as, surely, unless we're talking about $10k DACs and similar very high-end set-ups, where even there it's debatable whether it will audibly affect anything, it's not going to matter significantly enough. It's certainly not worth all this stupid argument when we're talking about cheap gear people are buying for mid-to-high end DACs to improve the digital input.*
   
  But now, you guys have made a big deal of the socket, so now Kingwa will go to a lot of trouble to investigate it. But, from what I know of him, he'll be straight about what he finds, good or bad.  Again though, if the connector he is using, or the one on the Hiface isn't perfect in some way, will it really matter that much? 
   
  Do you understand what I'm saying?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
*Now if it did turn out the connector makes a huge difference, I'd want to know about it, but I'm honestly dubious.  Hell, I'm using an RCA cable one of my digital connections.  What a sinner I am not using BNC though I have it available!  I will be upgrading the internal digital wiring to 75 Ohms in the future, as it's dead cheap to do so, but I don't consider it such a huge deal. All these incremental improvements to my rig I've been doing have added up quite nicely and it's interesting to experiment.


----------



## slim.a

This new Audio-gd digital interface seems very intersting. Kingwa asked me to try it and I accepted. I don't have the stock hiface anymore, so I will only be able to compare to the Teralink X2 and jkeny's modified Hiface. My guess is that it will fall somewhere in between. It will be intersting to see how close it can come to the battery powered hiface which is simply the best transport (CD or computer based) I have tried to date.

 One thing that bothers me though is that an increasing number of mannufacturers use the Tenor chips (Teradak, Audio-gd, Firestone...) and it has one major flaw (in my opinion) as it is not capable of passing 24/88 through. As far as I know (correct me if I am wrong), they can only do 44.1, 48, 96. Most people won't mind but for those who got some 24/88 files, it can be an issue.


----------



## regal

Well I took the hiface into the lab and tested the "75 ohm" connector with a scope,  the procedure is simple and I can explain it to anyone who understand ohms law and voltage division.   The hiface connector is a cheap 50 ohm impedance connector.  Change it to an Amphenol (that actually has a datasheet) and be done with it.
   
  Its no different than the P-O-S 22.579 miniature clock they substituted that gives terrible SQ on the new units.
   
  Jkeny,  I like you but folks must understand he is now a distributor of Hiface units (you can't send him a unit to be modded only buy new units through him)  so really has no business posting in a competitors thread.  I think AudioGD has more class than to post in Jenky's <cough> advertisemen <cough> I mean review thread.
   
  Jkeny show some class here and stay out of this thread please.


----------



## slim.a

Quote: 





currawong said:


> Now, jkeny, don't take this the wrong way, but as an observation: I've noticed you've been banned from one forum already, and I can see from the way you post, why.  Already a thread you've contributed to heated debate in on here has been closed and you're close to, if not actually breaking the rules with the posts you're making in this thread (and, now I think of it, your signature DOES break the forum rules -- you do need your proper MOT tag).  What I do see is, while on the one hand, your contribution to Hiface mod discussion is great (this kind of thing is one of the great aspects of Head-fi, that people will show others how to improve the sound of their gear cheaply) on the other hand, I see you talking out your arse about digital things based on info from others and you're going around trashing discussion, whether you're aware of it or not.  Honestly, who gives a toss about whether a connector is exactly 75 Ohms?  The point of one of my previous posts, where I asked you if you'd measured the jitter difference (I know you can not, reliably, without spending a large amount of money) was to point out that, really, the whole discussion of it is BS, as, surely, unless we're talking about $10k DACs and similar very high-end set-ups, where even there it's debatable whether it will audibly affect anything, it's not going to matter significantly enough. It's certainly not worth all this stupid argument when we're talking about cheap gear people are buying for mid-to-high end DACs to improve the digital input.


 

 I agree that this whole discussion about 75 ohms connectors is pointless in this section of the forum.
   
  As a previous experience, I had Kingwa add a true 75 ohms Canare BNC input on my dac19mk3. I compared a lot the BNC vs. RCA inputs using the same cables and found the difference very small. A few people asked if they should change their transport or DAC in order to get BNC and I told them it was not worth it in my opinion. Of course if one has the choice, it is better to go with the better quality connectors/components but it is not the end of the world to have connectors that are not exactly 75 ohms (in my experience).
  There are other things to worry about in an audio chain.
   
  Personally, I don't care if a transport uses a 20 ohms or 75ohms connector. What is more important is how good it sounds to my ears.


----------



## slim.a

Quote: 





regal said:


> Well I took the hiface into the lab and tested the "75 ohm" connector with a scope,  the procedure is simple and I can explain it to anyone who understand ohms law and voltage division.   The hiface connector is a cheap 50 ohm impedance connector.  Change it to an Amphenol (that actually has a datasheet) and be done with it.
> 
> Its no different than the P-O-S 22.579 miniature clock they substituted that gives terrible SQ on the new units.
> 
> ...


 

 Hi regal,
   
  While I agree that jkeny shoud stay out of this thread, I don't agree with you implying that my review of the modified Hiface is an advertisement thread. I had been a user of the Hiface for a few months before jkeny sent me his modified Hiface. It was good enough that I sent my stock hiface for modification at the end of the review period (along with the review sample). I had to live for around 3 weeks without a decent transport (while waiting for my hiface back). Why would I do that if it were advertisement as you implied?
   
  But I also agree, given that he became a hiface distributor now (which wasn't the case at the time he sent me a unit to review), it is not jkeny's place to post in this thread.
   
  ps: I will send a PM about the Hiface clocks in order to not derail this thread


----------



## regal

Quote: 





slim.a said:


> .  Honestly, who gives a toss about whether a connector is exactly 75 Ohms?  The point of one of my previous posts, where I asked you if you'd measured the jitter difference (I know you can not, reliably, without spending a large amount of money) was to point out that, really, the whole discussion of it is BS, as, surely, unless we're talking about $10k DACs and similar very high-end set-ups, where even there it's debatable whether it will audibly affect anything,


 


 I disagree,  perhaps you didn't notice a difference because your transport has to have a 75ohm output impedance ,  your cable 75 ohm, both the BNC connectors 75 ohm,  and then last there needs to be a 75ohm load infront of the digital receiver in the DAC.  If you don't have all these then obviously you won't notice a difference.   I went thru the trouble of doing this with my hiface (changing the connector and the pulse transformer) twice and I assure you there is a big difference when there are no reflections.  If you understand transmission line principles at all it would make sense,  but you are obviously not the authority here  (but I still envy your ears


----------



## cravenz

Quote: 





currawong said:


> He's not confident with his English is my understanding of why he doesn't post.
> 
> Anyway, while I was doing the washing, I thought of a bunch of stuff I wanted to write so you can understand why I'm posting.
> 
> The Hiface has clearly become one of the latest FOTMs on Head-fi.  I don't think this is a bad thing, as people are always seeking system upgrades that make a worthy improvement for the money.  The trouble that has come along with it is a lot of discussion about digital interfaces and whatnot, much of it vague, and much of it based on things other people have written, which may or may not have been based on other things found online, but without any actual solid understanding behind it.  In other words, people are talking out of their arses, bigtime.  And it's confusing people.  I just saw a post in another thread where someone said he wasn't going to consider a particular DAC because he'd picked up the idea that it was no good without a Hiface as well, which went over his budget.  Also, someone was asking about a cheap DAC/amp, whether they should spend almost as much as the device on a Hiface to go with it. What the ****?  Seriously.  But it gives you an idea just how stupid this has started to become.  Actually, I tell a lie, it has been stupid for a long while now, to the point that people who had no idea what they were talking about, tried to tell Dan Lavry about digital.  _That_ is hilariously bad.


 
   
  Just replying in case it was in reference to me (pardon me if I'm wrong) which I replied to in the thread I created and I will re-post it here for whatever reason.
   
  "...I know I don't need the HiFace, but I'd like to listen to hi-res music and the usb output at the moment only supports 16/44. Do correct me if I'm wrong though. Open to ideas 

 hope I don't come across as trying to say that I need the hiface. My bad."
   
  And from my understanding, the DF version does not support 16/44 (reading the website) and if I wish to feed it a high-res signal, I will need the HiFace (or an equivalent). But yes, on the other hand, a lot of posts on Head-fi are misleading in that many consumers including myself are mislead to believe that there are major differences in the use of a product, but really, in all honesty, the difference is not as big as the words used lead many to believe. Many people outside Head-fi are unhappy with the way things are thrown about like FOTMs over here where many superlatives are used, and many things are claimed.
  
  Also, I find it poor that people with the knowledge of all this are not actually sharing this knowledge and joining discussions where misleading information is thrown in, especially when they have read it and "know" it to be false. Again, the forum was meant to help people, meet, talk about like interests and to make informed choices.


----------



## regal

Didn't mean your review was an advertisement in anyway,  you are one of the honest ones.  It was all the posts linking to more and more reveiws that turned it into spam.
  
  Quote: 





slim.a said:


> Hi regal,
> 
> While I agree that jkeny shoud stay out of this thread, I don't agree with you implying that my review of the modified Hiface is an advertisement thread.


----------



## GWorlDofSPACE

I agree whit you CURRAWONG! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Kingwa knows what he is talking about!
   
  Jenkys, you should learn from the past. I read your post on diyaudio forum! I really admire your work whit hiface but please you need to be more open to other solutions that maybe play better or worse.
   
  I know that Kingwa will install the best sockets (bnc).


----------



## slim.a

Quote: 





regal said:


> I disagree,  perhaps you didn't notice a difference because your transport has to have a 75ohm output impedance ,  your cable 75 ohm, both the BNC connectors 75 ohm,  and then last there needs to be a 75ohm load infront of the digital receiver in the DAC.  If you don't have all these then obviously you won't notice a difference.   I went thru the trouble of doing this with my hiface (changing the connector and the pulse transformer) twice and I assure you there is a big difference when there are no reflections.  If you understand transmission line principles at all it would make sense,  but you are obviously not the authority here  (but I still envy your ears


 

 I didn't say I didn't notice a difference 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just said that difference was not big. A change in the digital cable itself was more noticeable than changing the connectors.
   
  I also don't pretend to be an expert in digital audio. However, If I had DIY skills, I would change the connector on the hiface to a true 75 ohms, I would change the BNC input on my DAC19 dsp into a 75 ohms Canare one and I would change the regular wire connecting the BNC input to PCB into 75 ohms (Prickley Peete suggested using 75 ohms Illuminati wire). My digital cable is OK as it is 75 ohms and uses 75 ohms BNC connectors (they don't have the white dilectric that 50 ohms BNC connectors have).
  While I don't understand everything about the digital audio, I understand at least that it is important to keep the same 75 ohms impedance throughout the signal path. I understand that there might be differences even in the quality of the PCB lines.
   
  In any case, what I wanted to express is that while there are always ways to make things "better", living with RCA or a poor BNC connector is not the end of the world (IMO).


----------



## mmerrill99

Ok, Currawong I'm not going to quote all you said but I'll just try to answer your points:
  I think you were talking about me & Dan Lavry & yes I was criticising his answers to me as they didn't make sense to me but I did by the end of the discussion say that I thought that he was correct & that short SPDIF cables were in general better. Remember, it was he who started the whole attack, not me, I was only trying to learn something.
   
  I have been banned from Jocko's forum but was given no reason! He accused me of stealing ideas from him or something along these lines (it was really a rant more than anything) & owing him some credit or royalties - I still don't know what he is talking about! I think he was upset about my exchanges with Dan Lavry because it was Jocko's notions of longer cables that started it all off & Dan was attacking this notion.
   
  You make it sound like I caused a thread to be locked on this site!
   
  My posts are of two types - either an attempt to understand something or an attempt to try to tell people what I understand. If I am butting my nose in where it's not wanted OK, I'm gone. I hoped the forum was for discussion & to learn things but I may be wrong.
   
  The only reason I posted in this thread was because I saw mention of the 50ohm Hiface socket & I wanted to find out the details - I see Regal has tested the socket & found it to be 50ohms so let that be an end to it - I just wanted to hear this sort of info rather than just guess work - I'm happy & will post no more here!
   
  As far as I'm concerned impedance differences (which can cause jitter) do matter & in all my tests so far it's the reduction of jitter that brings better sound. If you think otherwise that's Ok, I'm just posting what I have found.
   
  If my sig now seems to contravene the forum rules I'll change it - what, take the link out?
   
  Finally, I want to explain the reason I can't take peoples Hifaces for modification any more is because Customs have already stopped one from the US & charged me €50 on $200 customs declaration - if you want to take that risk OK? 
   
  Final word: We are all here to try & get the best sonic experience form our equipment - I'm trying to do so by identifying what are the important issues  - you may disagree with me, that's fine. I think it is better to try & point out to the equipment manufacturers (like Hiface & audio-gd) if you think they have made a mistake so as it can be rectified. I don't subscribe to the notion that it's only a cheap piece of kit so anything goes. If you want to be better served by the manufacturers then it's best to try for the best achievable at that price point & a true 75ohm connector is achievable for very little more than the existing connector - it just takes some care! Otherwise we may as well just start chasing better sound with more expensive cable swaps - this is just a crap shoot & an expensive one too!


----------



## The Monkey

Quote: 





regal said:


> Jkeny,  I like you but folks must understand he is now a distributor of Hiface units (you can't send him a unit to be modded only buy new units through him)  so really has no business posting in a competitors thread.  I think AudioGD has more class than to post in Jenky's <cough> advertisemen <cough> I mean review thread.


 

 audio-gd paid for this thread?


----------



## mmerrill99

Final, final word, honest, - Just in case you think I'm criticising Audio-GD  - I believe Kingwa is an innovative designer with some technically great looking products & his use of the Altera Cyclone II chip & his use of ACSS are very clever thinking & show his creative thinking. John Swenson on Audioasylum has said this about the DAC-19 DSP 
   


Spoiler



All in all, given what I can read about it on their web site, this is probably one of the best sounding DACs ever made, and at a ridiculously low price.


----------



## squall343

Quote: 





the monkey said:


> audio-gd paid for this thread?


 
  head-fi only protect sponsors?


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





cravenz said:


> And from my understanding, the DF version does not support 16/44 (reading the website) and if I wish to feed it a high-res signal, I will need the HiFace (or an equivalent). But yes, on the other hand, a lot of posts on Head-fi are misleading in that many consumers including myself are mislead to believe that there are major differences in the use of a product, but really, in all honesty, the difference is not as big as the words used lead many to believe. Many people outside Head-fi are unhappy with the way things are thrown about like FOTMs over here where many superlatives are used, and many things are claimed.
> 
> Also, I find it poor that people with the knowledge of all this are not actually sharing this knowledge and joining discussions where misleading information is thrown in, especially when they have read it and "know" it to be false. Again, the forum was meant to help people, meet, talk about like interests and to make informed choices.


 

 16/44.1 is CD quality, so you might have gotten your numbers confused.  I've lost track, but I think all the DACs with USB have been updated to accept 24/96.  However, 24/96 is arguably flavour of the decade in audio circles and very arguably (with mathematics) not worth caring about.  
   
  You're right about the "major differences" thing. After a lot of screwing around, differences seem to either be about different tonal balance or everything else (detail retrieval etc.).  The former are easy to make sound impressive, eg: stronger highs give the impression of more detail, or stronger bass more of a "fun" sound (my own word for it, which has started to infect the forums). Some of the improvements things give can be small, but over hours of listening, may improve one's enjoyment.  We are in a limbo where we can't quantify changes easily, especially in the case of digital, which either requires, as I understand it, a good oscilloscope, or, to measure jitter accurately, $20k worth of precision equipment.  The best that can be done is knowing whether we're chasing the proverbial dragon with purchases and make sure we don't impress people with unrealistic expectations and especially not with wrong info.  I'm sure I've been guilty of these things at one stage.
   
*jkeny*: I think you've brought up a lot of interesting stuff, and there is much positive you can contribute.  I think you're only problem is, you sometimes step over the line, so to speak, with the way you talk about things.  If discussions about technical issues turn into arguments, then it's time for people to step back and look at how they are expressing themselves. Few people think of doing this, however.
   
  Now...back to Gear-fi...


----------



## leeperry

so anyone's got his yet?


----------



## cravenz

Quote: 





currawong said:


> 16/44.1 is CD quality, so you might have gotten your numbers confused.  I've lost track, but I think all the DACs with USB have been updated to accept 24/96.  However, 24/96 is arguably flavour of the decade in audio circles and very arguably (with mathematics) not worth caring about.


 

 Heh, not the DAC19-DF version though, the DSP has however. But yes, I understand that there is minimal difference, but I'd like something that is bordering on future proof in the event I switch over to hi-res. Cos' I don't want to make another "big" outlay in the near future. That's how I look at it I guess.
   
  Sorry 'bout the sidetrack.
   
  Again, thanks for the input. Always appreciated.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





slim.a said:


> This new Audio-gd digital interface seems very intersting. Kingwa asked me to try it and I accepted. I don't have the stock hiface anymore, so I will only be able to compare to the Teralink X2 and jkeny's modified Hiface. My guess is that it will fall somewhere in between. It will be intersting to see how close it can come to the battery powered hiface which is simply the best transport (CD or computer based) I have tried to date.


 

 I'll be interested in reading your review slim. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Where will you post it?
   
  Quote: 





the monkey said:


> audio-gd paid for this thread?


 

 audio-gd promotional thread?


----------



## regal

IMHO these tester reviews will be worthless if someone doesn't run a bitperfect test.  God only knows what the DSP chip is doing.


----------



## slim.a

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> I'll be interested in reading your review slim.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hi upstateguy,
   
  I will probably post my review in a separate thread. My "usb to spdif shoot out thread" has been closed for an unknown reason so I might have to start another one.

  
  Quote: 





regal said:


> IMHO these tester reviews will be worthless if someone doesn't run a bitperfect test.  God only knows what the DSP chip is doing.


 

 Hi regal,
   
  In my personal experience, I have found that bit perfectness (in 44.1 and 48 frequencies) is not an issue with 24 bit capable transports. So far, all the 24 bit capable transports I have tried were able to pass HDCD data unharmed to the DAC.
   
  The DSP-3 can do upsampling internally, so in that case it will definitely not be bit perfect.
  I don't know about the dsp-3, but the dsp-1 works in 32 bits internally if my memory is correct.
  In that case, any processing/rounding errors shoud fall under the less than 20 bit real world resolution of most DACs. Would that be audible? Hard to say without listening.
   
  My main issue with the audio-gd digital interface and similar usb to spdif converters that use the Tenor chip (Teralink X2, Firestone Bravo...) is that they can't pass 88.2 without resampling to 96. (Please correct me if the audio-gd digital interface can pass 88.2)
  I can understand why some people would want to resample from 44.1 to 96 (or 192). But doing 88.2 to 96 conversion (by the drivers or by software) is just a waste of processing power and a additional step where data could be harmed.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





slim.a said:


> Hi upstateguy,
> 
> I will probably post my review in a separate thread. My "usb to spdif shoot out thread" has been closed for an unknown reason so I might have to start another one.


 

 Would it be possible to repost your reviews from the "usb to spdif shoot out thread" in the beginning of the new thread, so that information isn't lost? 
   
  USG


----------



## ninjikiran

That is my concern as well, my sound card can spit out bit perfect + Full bit matching but it would be nice if I could one day replace my sound card with a transport such as this.
  Quote: 





regal said:


> IMHO these tester reviews will be worthless if someone doesn't run a bitperfect test.  God only knows what the DSP chip is doing.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> *I'll be interested in reading your review slim*.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  x2.


----------



## haloxt

Loss of bit-perfect is pretty common in computers because of software quirks or hidden sound processing. I'd appreciate if people described what is necessary to get the tenor usb chip to be bit-perfect, not because I think it's essential, but just to find out if the tenor chip has any compatibility issues with different bit-perfect software.


----------



## erin

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> Loss of bit-perfect is pretty common in computers because of software quirks or hidden sound processing.


 

 I'm under the impression that if you use ASIO or KS or Direct out. that you will get bit perfect audio. ( however when I try these different output types - they all sound slightly different) So, this must mean that the interaction between the plugin and the player software must create different processing spikes and current draw, I guess resulting in RF spikes from the PS or Mobo, transferred down the USB cable to the converter. thus increasing  or decreasing  jitter. Resulting in the different sound.
   
  I guess  this is why people are reporting positive results with the USB isolators.
   
  From my own experience, reducing the number of background processes running on the computer can have a large impact on the sound quality. I use CMP + Cplay and find that this software is the best that I have heard. Others disagree, or don't want to use it because of its relative inconvenience. I now believe that all parts of your computer contribute to the overall sound (power supply, mobo, processor, attached graphics or sound cards etc.) , and so the subjective results on one computer with one converter, may be different on another computer with the same converter - which would explain why people report different results. Oh yea, and then there is the different DAC's that people use when reviewing.  It makes it very challenging  to know  whats best for your system. Only your own ears can tell you. Unfortunately its always X hundred dollars to try the newest toy. Hopefully the pockets are deep....
   
  There is a lot of information around on various forums about getting the best sound out of your computer.
   
  Cant comment on the tenor chip specifically because I don't own one.
   
  Looking forward to some reviews of this Audio Gd converter big time


----------



## regal

Slim,  A DSP (Digital Signal Processing) chip in a transport is a red flag!  If we don't show bit-perfectness,  hell that thing could be applying EQ or anything else.  You cannot ever review a transport without first proving they are bitperfect (at 44.1k) this gives a level playing field.
  I think you, as a budding reviewer should embrace this philosophy if you want to maintain credibility.
   
  (It also helps those of us who need bitperfect for HDCD and DTS pass thru.)
  
  Quote: 





slim.a said:


> Hi upstateguy,
> 
> I will probably post my review in a separate thread. My "usb to spdif shoot out thread" has been closed for an unknown reason so I might have to start another one.
> 
> ...


----------



## slim.a

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> Would it be possible to repost your reviews from the "usb to spdif shoot out thread" in the beginning of the new thread, so that information isn't lost?
> 
> USG


 

 Hi USG,
   
  I just started another "usb to spdif shoot out thread" here: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/503472/the-usb-to-spdif-converters-shoot-out-thread
  I reposted what I could find from the old thread (I didn't keep a copy of everything).

 I will post my review of the audio-gd digital on that thread whenever it is sent to me.


----------



## slim.a

Quote: 





regal said:


> Slim,  A DSP (Digital Signal Processing) chip in a transport is a red flag!  If we don't show bit-perfectness,  hell that thing could be applying EQ or anything else.  You cannot ever review a transport without first proving they are bitperfect (at 44.1k) this gives a level playing field.
> I think you, as a budding reviewer should embrace this philosophy if you want to maintain credibility.
> 
> (It also helps those of us who need bitperfect for HDCD and DTS pass thru.)


 
   
  I understand that is important to test bit perfectness especially for those who need HDCD or DTS pass thru. I don't have a HDCD capable DAC anymore but I will try to test bit perfectness on a friend's HT receiver.
   
  You are right, the DSP is powerful enough that it could be doing a number of things. However, one could ask: if it doesn't raise the voulume (or compress the sound) and if any processing improves the sound, wouldn't it be a good thing for non HDCD data? Aren't all non-NOS DACs messing with the data anyway?

 My main concern (besides the 88.2 capability) is the jitter reduction capability of the DSP. Recently, I found that, in my system, the sound improved a lot by bypassing the PLL feature of the DSP-1. My guess is that the "clean" clock provided by the battery powered Hiface I am using as a transport was compromised by the PLL of the DSP-1. This is of course only speculation to try to explain what I heard. I might be totally wrong about the explanation but I heard an improvement by bypassing the PLL feature on the DSP-1 (Jumper 1).

 From that experience, I doubt that the reclocked digital stream by the DSP-3 can better a battery powered hiface. But since there are many other things at play (output stage, impedance,...), only direct listening experience will tell.


----------



## haloxt

Erin, I agree with your explanation, but still I've read people say they fail bit-perfect test either due to hidden DSP and resampling, or because they didn't choose the right settings. I'd like to know if DI uses any hidden EQ, but I just want people to make sure they try all the settings and a few different software on the computer if they can't manage to pass bit-perfect tests, this rules out the computer and lets us know if bit-perfect is lost (or retained) in the DI.
   
  If this device actually uses software EQ "to improve sound quality" that'd be pretty surprising. But it wouldn't be the first, two popular ones for audiophiles are xxhighend and izotope ozone.


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





slim.a said:


> I understand that is important to test bit perfectness especially for those who need HDCD or DTS pass thru. I don't have a HDCD capable DAC anymore but I will try to test bit perfectness on a friend's HT receiver.
> 
> You are right, the DSP is powerful enough that it could be doing a number of things. However, one could ask: if it doesn't raise the voulume (or compress the sound) and if any processing improves the sound, wouldn't it be a good thing for non HDCD data? Aren't all non-NOS DACs messing with the data anyway?
> 
> ...


 

 Non-NOS DACs use oversampling, so there will always be some kind of pre-processing of the digital data before it reaches the actual DAC.
   
  Your PLL comment is interesting.  I might try switching off the PLL of the DSP-1 in my Ref 1 since I'm using the Ref 3, to see if it makes any difference.


----------



## regal

The Danger with hidden EQ is it can give you a wow affect and sound great on some music but poor on others,  you never want eq applied that you don't know of,  you want that to be done under your control or as most prefer just the mastering engineer himself (when the CD is made.)
   
  Oversampling DAC's just oversample and dither thats it,  they don't change the data which is called mastering.
   
   
  A transport that isn't bit perfect at 16/44.1  isn't a transport its a dumbed down DAW (Digital Audio Workstation.)
  
  Quote: 





haloxt said:


> Erin, I agree with your explanation, but still I've read people say they fail bit-perfect test either due to hidden DSP and resampling


----------



## leeperry

currawong said:


> Non-NOS DACs use oversampling, so there will always be some kind of pre-processing of the digital data before it reaches the actual DAC.


 

 Oversampling is done within the DAC chip at the conversion stage, anything else is called upsampling...and should be avoided in many ppl's opinions(including mine): http://www.audioholics.com/education/audio-formats-technology/upsampling-vs-oversampling-for-digital-audio/upsampling-vs-oversampling-for-digital-audio-page-2


> The effects of upsampling are no doubt overstated. By carefully designing the sampler, ADC, digital processing path, and oversampling DAC, the upsampling and asynchronous rate transfer can, in my opinion, be avoided.


   
  The only thing upsampling does is feed interpolated bogus data to the DAC oversampling algorithm..and yes, we can measure the THD/THD+N increase very easily. Some ppl might still like it, but there is no question that it's coloring the sound.


----------



## ninjikiran

for me I want it to be as transparent as possible, as in being what a transport is getting something from point A to B with little to no interference.  Obviously nothing in this world is "perfect", the only place any noticeable changes(unless your golden eared) should be when it comes in contact with any kind of DAC circuitry where its supposed to get converted and changed.
   
  Of course without some kind of direct to driver mode(WASAPI/Real ASIO) you are reliant on Windows to mess up your sound in any way possible via software.  As for the players I have never heard a difference between say Foobar and Cplay, one player I did try seemed very very very slightly louder.  Enough to color your opinion if not careful... 
   
  Everything else that people feel mess with audio, timing, jitter ect ect list goes on is not something you can really prevent(regardless of whether it effects you or not) besides buying overly expensive items.  The DSP chip in this unit in this device scares me as well, actually most high end audio products scare me because they all seem to want to paint a picture for things that should for all intents and purposes be completely transparent.  I mean if your adding warmth to 1's and 0's theres an obvious flaw or some kind of purposeful gimmick built into the device, or placebo(most likely the case).
   
  This sound card I am using is a perfect transport but it is a sound card made for other goals.  Having a simple USB solution would save time and free the card up to be used for its real purpose


----------



## Trapper32

Hmmmm  Doesn't everything ( caps, wire, cables, psu, etc etc ) in the signal path affect EQ???   Isn't that why some products can be varied to sound warm, thin, detailed,  etc etc.  Shouldn't it be about the Music???  Subjective??  Already ppl are making judgements about how it will sound based  on pure speculation on what they think it will sound like.  What about just letting our ears be the judge.  If  product A is technically superior and passes a  bit perfect signal but  doesn't sound as good as B to your ears, which one will you listen to??  I think some will actually listen to A because its technically superior, even if its sonic capability is inferior.  Count me on the side of the best sounding unit, whichever technology is used.


----------



## slim.a

Quote: 





currawong said:


> Non-NOS DACs use oversampling, so there will always be some kind of pre-processing of the digital data before it reaches the actual DAC.
> 
> Your PLL comment is interesting.  *I might try switching off the PLL of the DSP-1 in my Ref 1 since I'm using the Ref 3, to see if it makes any difference.  *


 

 I am intersted in having your feedback on the PLL setting.

  
  Quote: 





regal said:


> The Danger with hidden EQ is it can give you a wow affect and sound great on some music but poor on others,  you never want eq applied that you don't know of,  you want that to be done under your control or as most prefer just the mastering engineer himself (when the CD is made.)
> 
> Oversampling DAC's just oversample and dither thats it,  they don't change the data which is called mastering.
> 
> ...


 

 I agree that a hidden EQ would be bad. It is also something that might show on a RMAA test I believe.
   
  Regarding oversampling, I don't believe it is done the same way by all the algorithms. If you take Ayre's Minimum phase alogrithm for example (see here: http://www.ayre.com/pdf/Ayre_MP_White_Paper.pdf) you will see that they alter in purpose the impulse response in order to avoid the pre-ringing (I am simplifying things).
  In that case, would the minimal phase processing be called mastering or is it still "regular" oversampling?
  
  What I am trying to say is that I am usually a pragmatic person. While I also think that in most cases "zero processing" at the source/transport is the best way to go, I am not against processing if it can improve ALL my CDs.
  For example, I don't always use upsampling but if Kingwa developped some smart and very effective upsampling algorithm that improves the sound quality of all my files, I would rather have the upsampling than having a "bit perfect" path with a lesser sound quality.
   
  In other words, it is good to know the technical stuff to avoid buying the wrong components. However, at the end of the day, what matter most (to me at least) is how good it sounds. This is of course just my personal opinion.
  
   
  Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Oversampling is done within the DAC chip at the conversion stage, anything else is called upsampling...and should be avoided in many ppl's opinions(including mine): http://www.audioholics.com/education/audio-formats-technology/upsampling-vs-oversampling-for-digital-audio/upsampling-vs-oversampling-for-digital-audio-page-2


 

 In the case of R2R DACs such the PCM1704, there is no built in digital filter. The digital filter has to be external and we still use the term oversampling: you can have a look at the DF1704 digital filter datasheet (see here: http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/df1704.pdf). If you think that TI should use the word upsampling instead of oversampling, you might want to send an email...I wonder what they would respond


----------



## slim.a

Quote: 





trapper32 said:


> Hmmmm  Doesn't everything ( caps, wire, cables, psu, etc etc ) in the signal path affect EQ???   Isn't that why some products can be varied to sound warm, thin, detailed,  etc etc.  Shouldn't it be about the Music???  Subjective??  Already ppl are making judgements about how it will sound based  on pure speculation on what they think it will sound like.  What about just letting our ears be the judge.  If  product A is technically superior and passes a  bit perfect signal but  doesn't sound as good as B to your ears, which one will you listen to??  I think some will actually listen to A because its technically superior, even if its sonic capability is inferior.  Count me on the side of the best sounding unit, whichever technology is used.


 
   
  Trapper32,
   
  This is exactly what I was trying to express: if the DSP-3 can help us get a better subjective listening exprience, even if it means that it will mess with the bit-perfectness, why not?


----------



## leeperry

slim.a said:


> In the case of R2R DACs such the PCM1704, there is no built-in digital filter. The digital filter has to be external and we still use the term oversampling: you can have a look at the DF1704 digital filter datasheet (see here: http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/df1704.pdf). If you think that TI should use the word upsampling instead of oversampling, you might want to send an email...I wonder what they would respond


 
  Aren't we talking about obsolete parts here? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  The best audiopath is the shortest, and delta-sigma DAC's such as the AK4396 and its newer revisions do it all at once in the same chip, providing "_the performance and linearity of a delta-sigma device with the noise performance of an R-2R part_"...you seem to care about jitter, yet you're OK to use an external oversampling chip? I sense contradiction in your faith, Jedi.
   
  Just as a reminder: 


> Richard Kulavik of AKM Semiconductors explained it this way : "This DAC is a large departure from other delta-sigma DACs designed by us and others like BurrBrown, Analog Devices and Cirrus Logic.* The AK4396 is an entirely new modulator, pioneered and patented by AKM. It achieves something unique. In the past, many of the old Phillips and BurrBrown parts were R-2R* based products. These older products were looked upon as some of the best. One of the reasons was high frequency noise. In older R-2R parts, HF noise was not present. In all delta-sigma parts prior to the AK4396, everyone has fought HF noise caused from the delta-sigma modulator with the insertion of large filters and other parts to attempt to solve a problem created by the delta-sigma design. The AK4396 today effectively does not suffer any modulator-induced HF noise and is over 60dB better than the nearest Cirrus and BB devices. All of this HF noise can cause many audible artifacts downstream*. That is the 'miracle' we believe is making the difference today. This part gives you the performance and linearity of a delta-sigma device with the noise performance of an R-2R part, something that was never previously available."


   
  But if you like to have a 2ft long audiopath full of resistors/caps/transistors and several clock references not being synced together, your choice


----------



## ulyses

Quote: 





trapper32 said:


> Hmmmm  Doesn't everything ( caps, wire, cables, psu, etc etc ) in the signal path affect EQ???   Isn't that why some products can be varied to sound warm, thin, detailed,  etc etc.  Shouldn't it be about the Music???  Subjective??  Already ppl are making judgements about how it will sound based  on pure speculation on what they think it will sound like.  What about just letting our ears be the judge.  If  product A is technically superior and passes a  bit perfect signal but  doesn't sound as good as B to your ears, which one will you listen to??  I think some will actually listen to A because its technically superior, even if its sonic capability is inferior.  Count me on the side of the best sounding unit, whichever technology is used.


 

 Definitely. I can sing under this post.


----------



## Omega17TheTrue

@leepery
   
  Did you actually hear a R2R Dac instead of basing your opinion on engineer quotes ? Science and theory is great but the real test is only done by the ears. (and blind to avoid placebo)


----------



## ninjikiran

I think the point is any processing and wow'ing of the signal should be handled in the dac device, or any other devices you have in that path. Wow'ing the signal should not be the goal of a transport.


----------



## Trapper32

Quote: 





ninjikiran said:


> I think the point is any processing and wow'ing of the signal should be handled in the dac device, or any other devices you have in that path. Wow'ing the signal should not be the goal of a transport.


 

 I think I'll leave the goal of designing audio components to those with more experience and knowledge than me.  But I will  judge them with my ears.  Those scopes and graphs only go so far in defining soundstage, instrument separation (air) , etc etc 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## ninjikiran

I agree those scopes and graphs are only useful to a degree in telling you where audio peaks and if the peak is huge resulting in a painful experience on your ears .  But it would be bad design(unless explicitly purposeful) to design a transport that colors the signal.  This of course is ignoring the physical problems.


----------



## haloxt

Component choice is different than eq'ing. Let's not make a big deal about whether we want eq or dsp or not, the stated purpose of this device is jitter reduction. Make a big deal out of it if it turns out it can't pass the bit-perfect test .


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Oversampling is done within the DAC chip at the conversion stage, anything else is called upsampling...and should be avoided in many ppl's opinions(including mine): http://www.audioholics.com/education/audio-formats-technology/upsampling-vs-oversampling-for-digital-audio/upsampling-vs-oversampling-for-digital-audio-page-2


 
   

   
  Quote: 





> The only thing upsampling does is feed interpolated bogus data to the DAC oversampling algorithm..and yes, we can measure the THD/THD+N increase very easily. Some ppl might still like it, but there is no question that it's coloring the sound.


 
   
  My bad, I need to remind myself about these things.  Thanks for the link.


----------



## leeperry

omega17thetrue said:


> @leepery
> 
> Did you actually hear a R2R Dac instead of basing your opinion on engineer quotes ? Science and theory is great but the real test is only done by the ears. (and blind to avoid placebo)


 
   
  Yes, it's like those chinese NOS...I don't buy the "trust your ears" argument no more, and I'm not in the market for grossly overpriced obsolete technologies kthx.
   
  And am I daydreaming or there's no datasheet whatsoever for that DSP3 chip? Audio-GD has such a good niche, a lot of ppl willing to pay shipping costs both ends for a new product running a DSP w/o any datasheet available(or technical specs for that matter), I presume it does "very good low jitter reduction"...that's what I call a sales argument 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   


> Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> My bad, I need to remind myself about these things.


 
   
  having the 192kHz led lighting up on your DAC is sheer sexiness, I'll give you that


----------



## Currawong

I shall be evil and say, on both the Northstar M192 MK1 I used to own, and the current Ref 3 upsampler (I didn't get it for that though) any difference between up-sampled and not was less than the difference I felt I got between power cables. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Anyway, aren't we supposed to be talking about the USB Face? Or has all the drama shifted to the Hiface clock chip issue?


----------



## Trapper32

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Yes, it's like those chinese NOS...I don't buy the "trust your ears" argument no more, and I'm not in the market for grossly overpriced obsolete technologies kthx.


 
   
  Lol..who ya gonna believe...your lying ears or ME ??


----------



## erin

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Yes, it's like those chinese NOS...I don't buy the "trust your ears" argument no more, and I'm not in the market for grossly overpriced obsolete technologies


 

 what about very resonably priced obsolete technology?
  TDA1541 all the way.............


----------



## Audio Bling

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> [..]
> And am I daydreaming or there's no datasheet whatsoever for that DSP3 chip? Audio-GD has such a good niche, a lot of ppl willing to pay shipping costs both ends for a new product running a DSP w/o any datasheet available(or technical specs for that matter), I presume it does "very good low jitter reduction"...that's what I call a sales argument
> 
> 
> ...


   
[size=10pt]It seems to me Kingwa’s “sales argument” is not so much the [/size][size=10pt]"[promise of] very good low jitter reduction" but more that there are fifteen testers up for reporting criticism or praise. Yes, it would be good to have a “datasheet”; IMO, better to get your hot little hands on it and have a listen.. [/size]
   
[size=10pt]As to what the DSP-3 actually does; I won’t say this is unimportant. However, what if it turns out that it is not bit perfect but still sounded fantastic; what then? I think this is what slim.a was getting at to a degree in an earlier post. [/size]
   
[size=10pt]BTW. Anyone seen my post here? (http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/423960/musiland-monitor-01-usd-24-192-usb-to-spdif/840#post_6794696) Anyone care to respond?[/size]


----------



## regal

that would be fine but it wouldn't be a transport and shouldn't be compared to transports.  Lets say it is not bit perfect and we find it applies +5db bass boost.  Yea it might sound great with your setup,  but wouldn't you rather apply eq under your control rather than some pseudo-transport?
   
  Quote: 





audio bling said:


>


----------



## regal

completely wrong.   R2R DAC's are much less susceptible  to jitter.  You need to study before posting such nonsense.
  Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Aren't we talking about obsolete parts here?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Audio Bling

Quote: 





regal said:


> [..]
> that would be fine but it wouldn't be a transport and shouldn't be compared to transports.  Lets say it is not bit perfect and we find it applies +5db bass boost.  Yea it might sound great with your setup,  but wouldn't you rather apply eq under your control rather than some pseudo-transport?
> [..]


 

 I agree to an extent. In some definitional sense, I suppose, it would not be a "transport". But do all transports sound the same? My experience is that every device, every cable, every piece of software, every resistor, every whatever, comes with its own "sonic signature". If absolute transparency is the criteria then transports seem not exist at all. Can anyone tell me what 100010.. is supposed to sound like? No two transports seem to agree on the question.
   
  But I do get your point. It's a can of worms, really.


----------



## regal

You are on the right track but remember in the digital domain as long as bitperfectness is maintained the content is the same.  As an example I could hook a bitperfect transport up to a digital input on my freinds computer,  he could then send it to china and back,  and its the same.  Its only when the digital is converted to to analog that the transports "sound signature" becomes appearant,  this is due to jitter from the transport.  Its a difficult concept to explain,  but if you google jitter and study you will figure it out.


----------



## erin

Does anyone know if this mysterious "DSP3" is actually a DSP IC or a FPGA?


----------



## regal

[size=9pt]FPGA [/size]
  
  Quote: 





erin said:


> Does anyone know if this mysterious "DSP3" is actually a DSP IC or a FPGA?


----------



## erin

Quote: 





regal said:


> [size=9pt]FPGA [/size]


 

 Well thats not so bad. FPGA's are good.


----------



## ccschua

why dont the DAC design include such thingy as error correction. When all the bits are captured by a chip next to DAC (or DAC itself) with sufficient buffer then only it is processed. I m off track of course, because such chip would not be musical like PCM1704u-k


----------



## erin

The DAC by design just turns the presented data into analog signals. That's why everyone desires bit perfect output from their computer and USB> SPDIF converter. Jitter is the main concern of this process. Many of these devices are bit perfect. Jitter levels vary.


----------



## regal

Kind of off topic but the issue is that a clock in the DAC is not going to match the clock in the transport exactly,  eventually the buffer would over-run or run out,  so a PLL is sometimes used with a variable clock in the DAC to match the incoming clock.  No one has come up with a way to eliminate jitter's affect on a DAC,  it can be minimized with expensive schemes but IMHO its best to just start with a good transport.   You will also find that DAC designers that design great sound and top notch analog design (ex AudioGD) aren't typically good at the digital side and vise-versa (Arye.)  
  Quote: 





ccschua said:


> why dont the DAC design include such thingy as error correction. When all the bits are captured by a chip next to DAC (or DAC itself) with sufficient buffer then only it is processed. I m off track of course, because such chip would not be musical like PCM1704u-k


----------



## erin

everyone is chit chatting in anticipation of a review.lol
   
  Anyone want to take a guess at what page we will be on when the review arrives?


----------



## Headphony

Quote: 





slim.a said:


> ...One thing that bothers me though is that an increasing number of mannufacturers use the Tenor chips (Teradak, Audio-gd, Firestone...) and it has one major flaw (in my opinion) as it is not capable of passing 24/88 through. As far as I know (correct me if I am wrong), they can only do 44.1, 48, 96. Most people won't mind but for those who got some 24/88 files, it can be an issue.


 

 I agree.  The Tenor chip seems to be a low cost solution.  I'm curious how it performs compared to the TI USB chips even for standard resolution 16/44 files.  I'm not a technical person so this may be a complete non-issue.  I've never heard of Galaxy Far East Corporation, though, and Texas Instruments is a reputable company.


----------



## Headphony

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> the TI USB chips sounds pretty bad...PCM2902, PCM2702E. Surely, you can find better adaptive chips.


 

 I agree. But how do those chips compare to the Tenor?  Also, the CEntrance engineered solutions used in Lavry, Benchmark, etc products utilize TI TAS1020B chips as I understand.  These might be better solutions than the Tenor based ones?


----------



## erin

Quote: 





slim.a said:


> many people who like R2R DACs have owned many sigma-delta DACs prior to that. The only reason sigma-delta DACs are here was to cut costs.


 

 Agreed!
   
  R2R DACs are good.
   
  But... out of all the sigma delta DACs - to me the AK4393 is the best sounding of the bunch - never heard the AK4396 (actually i have but not in a situation which allows me to comment) ......


----------



## haloxt

My first dac was a ak4396 ht omega claro and claro halo sound card, I still have it and it's sometimes fun to listen to it, like looking at a reel of film to watch a movie, very objective with little room for misinterpretation, but very 2d hehe.


----------



## haloxt

As of now there's a big discount on ap-810 power cables here: http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/58-13630
   
  I purchased 6 of them at 3.09 each and $9 shipping, so like $27.50 total. They are 14x3 awg, shielded and ferrite bead, and gold-plated power cables. After 15 hours of initial use they seem to be quite good when used on my ac 215 power conditioner and computer connected to it and outputting usb, better highs, light sweet mids, quick dynamics, and coherent imaging compared to my stock unshielded 14 awg power cables, on headphone amp and receiver it has less black background though, and not too full-bodied lows and mids.
   
  Maybe it will improve with more burn-in, but if not, I still think it's a great power cable and if anyone here has yet to get power cables definitely a good opportunity to get enough cables for your audio system and computer etc.
   
  On the same topic, how many of you would be interested if audio-gd made $20-30 14 awg power cables? Their $75/4.5ft or $60/3ft power cables are a bit pricey, especially when you have to buy like 6 for your audio system. I am thinking about asking him but maybe they already offer too much products, and heh.. maybe liquidation prices on audiophile cables may be more common than I think.


----------



## tim3320070

Since he has the HiFace, you should ask Kingwa this question- slim.a is one opinion and one set of ears (no offense).


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





headphony said:


> I agree. But how do those chips compare to the Tenor?  Also, the CEntrance engineered solutions used in Lavry, Benchmark, etc products utilize TI TAS1020B chips as I understand.  These might be better solutions than the Tenor based ones?


 

 Not to forget that some chip designs require licensing fees and custom drivers........to keep an interface affordable and do it's job well is not an easy prospect. In many ways designing a cost no object piece is much easier.
   
  Excellent points Regal ! I have more to add (about transports) but this isn't the thread for it.
   
  Peete.


----------



## Poetik

Anyways, are there any reviews yet from those who have heard the usbface?


----------



## ninjikiran

The difference between the Dac in my mobile phone and my external dac is larger than life itself.  Its almost like listening through a tin can, the similar effect to using super flimsy cheap corner sold headphones.
   
  That said i am sure the DAC in the ipod is better than whatever my phone uses.  Thouugh I find myself wishing more and more that portable audio devices could have digital transports so that you can use a controllable portable dac/amp.  Back on the topic of transports


----------



## AVU

Apologies if this is a dumb question, but I can't find a straightforward answer on either forum:
   
  Assuming a relatively low-end setup (albeit with high-end phones) : MacBookPro using Pure Vinyl - optical to Audio-Gd Sparrow - JH13 Pros
   
  would the introduction of the HiFace (modified or no) or this new unit have any real effect on the sound, or would it be better to just upgrade the Sparrow to a HDP or some other separate DAC and AMP?
   
I know most won't have this exact combo, but assume the Sparrow to be identical to the sound of say, the Audist, Matrix mini-i, Pico Dac/Amp, iBasso D4/D10, Audio-Gd Fun, etc. DAC/AMP combo under $450.


----------



## haloxt

I've tried to use a converter on the sparrow. I could tell a very small difference, maybe nice for long-listening, but not worth the $$. I think this is because the sparrow has a bit of an energetic sound signature and instrument positioning isn't really its strong point. Two tweaks I like on the sparrow is headphone recable and thicker power cable, both of which cost me ~$10 each, and imo yield more benefit than converter.
   
  Different kind of benefit though, and imo certain things like headphone cable is simply more important than jitter, I just hate the choked sound of thin and long headphone cable.


----------



## tim3320070

Hardware should be more important than signal wires or digital conversion of 1's and 0'2 (though they have importance to some)- isn't this common sense to most (no offense haloxt)?
  The biggest improvement in sound quality I have heard is thru better or different headphones (some $200 headphones can sound "better" to you than $600 ones in my experience). Better DAC's and amps provide better sound but you need to make a big step up to really notice it.
  Buy a DAC19 DAC plus C2 amp ($900), and you will probably hear a decent improvement over the Sparrow. Fun is supposed to be very similar to the Sparrow according to Kingwa.
  These are my opinions.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Sure the devices are important but wo are the signal wires and digital conversions.  It is all part of the system and you are only as good as your weakest link.


----------



## haloxt

I don't see how you disagreed with me so I don't take any offense hehe. I believe in cables for optimizing audio chains though, I have had a lot of joy swapping cables. But of course only play with cables once you have a headphone, amp, and dac you like enough to improve.


----------



## Currawong

AVU: Get better separates for sure.  I'd save your money for a few more months and get a more serious rig.


----------



## AVU

Cool, thanks for all the quick replies.  That's basically what I thought, I just wanted to hear it from people who know more than I do (ie, everyone here.)
   
  As a final question, since you're all being so nice, is there any possibility of just using the headphone out of a good DAC if I'm only using the ultra low impedence JH13s?  One with a gain knob, such as the Benchmark DAC1 or Lavry 10/11?  Or is that just an awful idea?  I only ask because when I tried the straight dac out of the ibasso D4, I thought it actually sounded BETTER than the dac+amp out to the JH13s, I just couldn't control the volume


----------



## Currawong

Depends on the minimum gain of the DA10/11.  The digital volume control will be beneficial, however.  Maybe shoot Lavry an email and see what they reckon about IEMs with their gear.


----------



## boomana

I just deleted a page of posts.  If your post(s) were deleted, consider yourself warned, and you are asking for a vacation from posting if you continue.  Trolling, insulting members personally, even if in response to being provoked, or quoting trolling posts just to stir the pot some more really bring this forum down.  Please knock it off.


----------



## leeperry

poetik said:


> are there any reviews yet from those who have heard the usbface?


 

 Looks like noone received it yet..


----------



## tim3320070

End of the month before shipment I was told.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> I don't see how you disagreed with me so I don't take any offense hehe. I believe in cables for optimizing audio chains though, I have had a lot of joy swapping cables. But of course only play with cables once you have a headphone, amp, and dac you like enough to improve.


 

 Not sure if you were talking to me, however i was speaking with the guy in the other posting.  I am all for quality cables also, that is up to a point before the "quality" goes all silly if you know what I mean.
  Sorry, not trying to go off topic, just answering a posting.


----------



## volume

What about the PLL on the DSP3 would we need to turn it off also similar to the DSP1 on DAC19


----------



## shogo33

Quote: 





volume said:


> What about the PLL on the DSP3 would we need to turn it off also similar to the DSP1 on DAC19


 

 Doesnt the PLL offer jitter reduction on the DSP units?  Why turn it off?


----------



## volume

search me.


----------



## Currawong

There may be some use, though I'm no digital expert, in turning off the PLL _in a DAC_ when you are using a transport/interface which has lower jitter than the PLL in the DAC. This is what some of us are experimenting with. The USBFace is not a DAC and the DSP function is different.


----------



## shogo33

I see..
   
  In my case where i have a Dac3se, which uses a DF (not DSP), then would it be best to leave the PLL as is?


----------



## Thaddy

Any reviews yet?  I was considering the purchase of the M2Tech HiFace to go with my DAC-19 DSP but the DACFace has me reconsidering.


----------



## digger945

Quote: 





currawong said:


> There may be some use, though I'm no digital expert, in turning off the PLL _in a DAC_ when you are using a transport/interface which has lower jitter than the PLL in the DAC. This is what some of us are experimenting with. The USBFace is not a DAC and the DSP function is different.


 

 Thank you! I am asking the same thing, and doing some research now to try and figure out how to (safely without messing anything up) bypass the PLL on one of my dacs(EAD with PCM63).
   
  Who is "some of us?"


----------



## tim3320070

Don't you think Kingwa has tried all this already? Why doesn't someone ask him his advise directly? He's very good about answering. I think all who own and enjoy his gear would trust that he uses the DSP filters for good reason.


----------



## Currawong

The discussion about the PLL is in slim.a's review of the ACSS connection between his DAC19 and C2.  
   
  I agree about asking Kingwa for his opinion.  I do wish he would post, but he is worried about his English.


----------



## Audio Bling

Updated DSP-3 web page:
http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USBface/Digital1EN.htm
   
  User test units to ship from around the 10th Aug.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Looks like Kingwa changed it quite a bit. I really like the outboard PSU idea. At 75USD it's a bloody bargain. I look forward to the comparison between this and the Jkeny HiFace.
   
  Peete.


----------



## regal

[size=x-small]  [/size]I just don't like comparing apples and oranges.  This is a "digital interface",  he's not selling it as a transport.  I have great respect for AudioGD as a designer and am glad he he isn't calling it a transport which it clearly is not.  
   
  Most important quote on the page :  "[size=x-small]The coaxial input can improve on SQ from some low/mid rang coaxial output source. Like some DVD player, PC sound card, low/mid rang CDP like the Marantz CD67, ect.  If the coaxial output source already quite Hi-end, don't expect the Digital Interface can improve on SQ."  [/size]
   
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]this quote tells me that this unit in itself is not high end  [/size] [/size]
   You could never call AudioGD dishonest. 
   
   
  Price is $265 with the external power btw,  not $75.[size=x-small] [/size]


----------



## volume

Kingwa is working on making this a very nice interface,ithe idea of an external custom PSU is intriguing.


----------



## Mad Max




----------



## ninjikiran

Quote: 





regal said:


> [size=x-small]  [/size]I just don't like comparing apples and oranges.  This is a "digital interface",  he's not selling it as a transport.  I have great respect for AudioGD as a designer and am glad he he isn't calling it a transport which it clearly is not.
> 
> Most important quote on the page :  "[size=x-small]The coaxial input can improve on SQ from some low/mid rang coaxial output source. Like some DVD player, PC sound card, low/mid rang CDP like the Marantz CD67, ect.  If the coaxial output source already quite Hi-end, don't expect the Digital Interface can improve on SQ."  [/size]
> 
> ...


 

 Since the english used is not 100% clear, what does it do exactly.  It is a "Digital Interface" with digital outputs, no analog conversion involved.  I am having trouble figuring it out.  I mean only obvious conclusion to me would be its a transport of some type, what is it doing with the signal? What is it changing? How are things getting modulated? Those kinds of questions.  Because I know when the reviews come in ts going to go through the motions of "sound stage, brightness, darkness, openess, tube like, ect ect so I am looking for that objective answer.
   
  By the statement "Don't expect the digital interface can improve on SQ" I get the idea that in terms of the actual audio it is 100% transparent.  Adding no strange effects or colorations, only upsampling if needed(or if enabled).


----------



## jimmychan

The Digital Interface has two functions.
   
  1. the USB input will converted to SPIF digital output. The DSP will serve as a digital filter to minimise the jitter and over sampling. The output of the interface will meet near high end sound quality.
   
  2. The SPIF input will also pass throught the DSP and minimise the jitter to improve the SQ to near high end.
   
  For high end players like AGD's CD7, the SQ will deteriate after passing through the "Interface", but the low end players will be benifit from it.


----------



## regal

Transports don't upsample or have digital filters.  Transports don't change the data,  the only variable for SQ is Jitter and thats why they sound different.  But this doesn't look to be a transport. 
   
  Now think about the statement that only low to mid end inputs will benefit,  this implies that the USB receiver is low-mid end if it needs cleaned up by filters/upsampling/pll whatever, JMHO .
   
  Believe me I'd much rather my computer transport come from AudioGD than M2Tech,  but I'm still waiting for him to build one.


----------



## ninjikiran

Ahh I see, so no good for me if thats going to happen.  I am happy using my sound card as a transport given its bit perfect even to the source sample rate just been looking for some USB--->Spdif device which does that and only that(more for simplicities sake and allowing me to use my sound card for 5.1 duties solely).  The hiface seemed to fit the bill but I am worried a bit by it since people were describing such radical changes in sound and the other thread about a lower quality part effecting the quality of the unit itself.  I personally can't describe what jitter does to sound because I honestly don't have enough points of reference in my collection.
   
  @Regal
  Yea unfortunately not.  Worst case scenario I wait.
  Quote: 





jimmychan said:


> The Digital Interface has two functions.
> 
> 1. the USB input will converted to SPIF digital output. The DSP will serve as a digital filter to minimise the jitter and over sampling. The output of the interface will meet near high end sound quality.
> 
> ...


----------



## tim3320070

I am getting both (PSU and DI) coming soon to try. I posted in the Ref-7 forumn but here too- Kingwa will discount the DI when purchasing a DAC too- it's $40 more to get the DI with Ref-8 DAC (not including PSU though), that's a great deal IMO.
  Kingwa said the same thing about the Ref-3, that it improves moderately designed gear but not higher-end gear. For a couple of hundred dollars, making my blu-ray player or computer sound nearer the CD7 seems like a no brainer to me.


----------



## superchan

would this be stupid if i use this for the audio-gd FUN ??
   
  i stiil got the version with the old USB module or should i try the Hiface ???
   
  another question i have could he not build in the transporter inside a DAC ??


----------



## tim3320070

I wouldn't bother with it for the Fun. Money would be better spent on Headphones or music IMO. He would have to redesign the chassis some but I think selling it as a separate unit makes for better sales for him.


----------



## Topaze

If I understood correctly, those who have one of the Reference DACs with the USB module do not really need to buy the USBFace, right?


----------



## volume

That would not be right.


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote: 





topaze said:


> If I understood correctly, those who have one of the Reference DACs with the USB module do not really need to buy the USBFace, right?


 

 On the contrary, they are better off using the DI instead of using the USB input of their DAC.


----------



## Currawong

Kingwa has even said the obvious, which it that it's pointless to use it with the Fun.  On the other hand, someone posted in the Reference 7 thread that they were told by Kingwa that the USBFace is a better for USB than what's in the Reference 7.


----------



## volume

I have e-mailed Kingwa a few times about the PSU and he keeps saying that it may not be an audible upgrade and doesn't want to recommend it, so we would not call him a liar.


----------



## upstateguy

So, what has happened here? 
   
  The product is no longer competing with the HiFace as a transport and instead is used to somehow enhance low-fi DACs in the $300 range? 
   
  Why would I want this product over a HiFace, even for my Constantine?
   
  Money would be better spent on a new source.....
   
  USG


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Regal ...if you reread what I wrote I was referring to the outboard PSU option being a bloody bargain. I have bought lesser units locally that cost twice as much that had no chassis (just the traffo and the V reg psu board). That is why I said the outboard PSU option is a bargain...because it is.
   
  Peete.


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> So, what has happened here?
> 
> The product is no longer competing with the HiFace as a transport and instead is used to somehow enhance low-fi DACs in the $300 range?
> 
> ...


 

 You're reading it backwards, it's designed for higher-end DACs.  People, as you point out (such as those asking if it's worth getting for the Fun) just have their priorities backwards.


----------



## Audio Bling

[size=10pt][size=10pt]Does the Audio-gd intend to compete with Musiland or M2tech? Yes. Are they the same kind of product? No. [/size][/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt]The fact is that you are buying sophisticated software when you buy Musiland or M2tech products. Their asynchronous software is a good part of what you are hearing. Software has become a product in itself which is why Musiland and M2tech (and Wavelength) package it and license it to other companies. [/size][/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt]How does Kingwa choose to compete? Presumably he is no programmer and the cost of licensing software from a third party vendor makes no sense in a product that he wants to sell for USD140-190. So what does he do? He goes in another direction: DSP. This is not a new idea; award winning players (and DACS) from Harmon Kardon and Cambridge (to name just two) have "DSP modules". The problem for Kingwa is that DSP is perceived by some to be old fashioned; a move in the wrong direction.[/size][/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt]There was an expectation that Audio-gd would go head-to-head with Musiland and M2tech and build a super-dooper re-clocker and keep the bits “pure”. From what I can work out they have chosen to do re-clocking as well as other things. The criticism is already about that DSP-3 will corrupt the source (by jiggling the bits) such that it no longer is a “transport” in a pure sense. [/size][/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt]I can see that DSP-3 will divide attitudes. It is already doing so. Even if user reviews are overwhelmingly positive there will be folk who will argue that any DSP is inherently flawed and can never be “better”. Impolitely, they will say that anyone who prefers it is delusional. As for me, I intend to listen to the DSP-3 and send it back if I don’t like it. The delusion would be to make up my mind about it before I hear it.[/size][/size]


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





currawong said:


> You're reading it backwards, it's designed for higher-end DACs.  People, as you point out (such as those asking if it's worth getting for the Fun) just have their priorities backwards.


 

 OK, now I'm confused............


----------



## audio-gd

I think I was made the wrong description about match to the low end gears .
  I was want say ,  for new fans, maybe can't hear the different.
  For senior fans, even match to a USD100 low end DAC+amp but also can hear the different quite easy .
  I think most people just want to enjoy the music, not interest at what technology applied.
  Just like a lot older hi-end DACs, the specs not good as most new DACs at present but I think their sound level not bad than most new DACs.


----------



## ninjikiran

haha I am to
  Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> OK, now I'm confused............


----------



## jimmychan

The DI can set to bitperfect output without oversampling, but it still works as a digital filter to minimize the jitter.


----------



## audio-gd

The DSP3  had not design the digital filter software. For SPDIF output format, must without digital filter.
  The upsampling just for fun , it is not default.


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





audio bling said:


> [size=10pt][size=10pt]Does the Audio-gd intend to compete with Musiland or M2tech? Yes. Are they the same kind of product? No. [/size][/size]
> [size=10pt] [/size]
> [size=10pt][size=10pt]The fact is that you are buying sophisticated software when you buy Musiland or M2tech products. Their asynchronous software is a good part of what you are hearing. Software has become a product in itself which is why Musiland and M2tech (and Wavelength) package it and license it to other companies. [/size][/size]
> [size=10pt] [/size]
> ...


 

 I'm an Audio-GD fan, but in this case I totally agree with you Audio Bling.
  A good usb to spdif converter has a large software component, that I think is totally lacking here.
  Also, I had the chance to compare the Hiface and the Halide Bridge, and on Windows the Hiface is au pair with the Bridge  because of the proprietary drivers (things are different on Mac and Linux).
  Nevertheless, I'm curious to read reviews and opinions from the 15 testers


----------



## Trapper32

Quote: 





audio bling said:


> [size=10pt][size=10pt]Does the Audio-gd intend to compete with Musiland or M2tech? Yes. Are they the same kind of product? No. [/size][/size]
> [size=10pt] [/size]
> [size=10pt][size=10pt]The fact is that you are buying sophisticated software when you buy Musiland or M2tech products. Their asynchronous software is a good part of what you are hearing. Software has become a product in itself which is why Musiland and M2tech (and Wavelength) package it and license it to other companies. [/size][/size]
> [size=10pt] [/size]
> ...


 

 Well written post.....couldn't agree more.


----------



## digger945

Quote: 





audio bling said:


> [size=10pt] [/size]
> [size=10pt][size=10pt]The fact is that you are buying sophisticated software when you buy Musiland or M2tech products. Their asynchronous software is a good part of what you are hearing. Software has become a product in itself which is why Musiland and M2tech (and Wavelength) package it and license it to other companies. [/size][/size]
> [size=10pt] [/size]
> [size=10pt][size=10pt]How does Kingwa choose to compete? Presumably he is no programmer and the cost of licensing software from a third party vendor makes no sense in a product that he wants to sell for USD140-190. So what does he do? He goes in another direction: DSP. This is not a new idea; award winning players (and DACS) from Harmon Kardon and Cambridge (to name just two) have "DSP modules". The problem for Kingwa is that DSP is perceived by some to be old fashioned; a move in the wrong direction.[/size][/size]
> ...


 

 Having owned the Musiland 02, HiFace, and a product using Streamlength from Wavelength Audio, I can say that the Wavelength product does not use driver software installed on the computer like the other 2 do. The Wavelength product is hardware with code to control usb timing. Not exactly sure how the Musiland or HiFace manage this with software on the computer.
   
  As for the "super-dooper re-clocker" I'm not sure I understand what you mean, but there is no controlling the bits to make them "pure", just control of the timing. There are different ways used to do this.
   
  Hope that I didn't misunderstand your post and sorry if I did. I am interested in the product and want to know more about how it works and if it uses software installed on the computer or does it's thing on it's own like Wavelength(usb timing control) or Empirical(Re-clocking) does.


----------



## regal

Boy I'd like to see digital filtering without oversampling,  what does it have a -3dB at 10khz?   You obviously don't know what you are talking about.
   
   
  Quote: 





jimmychan said:


> The DI can set to bitperfect output without oversampling, but it still works as a digital filter to minimize the jitter.


----------



## ccschua

time to refresh on oversampling and digital filter. back to the basics. Did I miss out on the clock jitter in ppm?


----------



## Audio Bling

Quote: 





digger945 said:


> [..]
> As for the "super-dooper re-clocker" I'm not sure I understand what you mean, but there is no controlling the bits to make them "pure", just control of the timing.
> [..]


 

  
[size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]By "super-dooper re-clocker" I meant something like the Empirical Audio approach. By “pure” I meant bit perfect. [/size][/size][/size][/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt] [/size][/size][/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]--------------------------------------[/size][/size][/size][/size]
   
[size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]At last count, Empirical offer three different kinds of “clocks” in their Off-Ramp ranging from cuckoo to atomic accuracy. It’s speculation on my part but I doubt that A-gd would attempt a Wavelength type implementation; from what I read, the investment in time and effort by Gordon Rankin was huge. I am only guessing but I suspect the DSP-3 is a re-clocker like the EA product (but at a fraction of the price). Additionally, it has DSP functionality which will be (to some extent?) tailorable and defeatable by way of those DIP switches. It also has the potential of I2S connection; this also being a theme strongly promoted by EA.[/size][/size][/size][/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt] [/size][/size][/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]Or, am I wrong?[/size][/size][/size][/size]


----------



## ninjikiran

Only concern is with USB mode, if it uses the standard windows USB driver it will be stuck at 16/48khz more than likely.
   
  Based on what I gathered on the Audio-Gd device it should be more or less transparent unless you choose to make it handle the upsampling.  Just providing an interface between your computer and dac while minimizing jitter.
   
  Someone has offered me a HiFace for a decent price, and I am 100% sure it uses a driver for windows which allows more than 16/48khz to be used.


----------



## shogo33

The Hiface sure does rely on its optimised drivers for windows/mac.  But simply for this reason it doesnt make it a long term solution as it depends upon software updates in my opinion.  But then again, does the DI use a firmware, which may require updating?


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





ninjikiran said:


> Only concern is with USB mode, if it uses the standard windows USB driver it will be stuck at 16/48khz more than likely.


 
   
  The Tenor chip does 24/96 without special drivers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Other than that, there are some weird ideas and speculation in this thread.  No matter. I will say though, Kingwa usually makes stuff because someone suggests him to do so.  He said to me in an email once to the effect of that he doesn't want to make cheap gear if it doesn't sound good.  He is also sensitive to feedback and that his customers are happy.  Note there is now a big, shiny gold-plated 75 Ohm BNC socket on the USBFace now.  I wont attempt to comment on the digital stuff, as I don't know enough, except to say that I have great trouble hearing any significant difference between the up-sampling being on and off in my Reference 3.


----------



## Thaddy

Quote: 





shogo33 said:


> The Hiface sure does rely on its optimised drivers for windows/mac.  But simply for this reason it doesnt make it a long term solution as it depends upon software updates in my opinion.  But then again, does the DI use a firmware, which may require updating?


 

 Honestly though, how many software updates are required to achieve bit-perfect output?  HiFace owners shouldn't be required to update their software weekly.  IMO, not a good reason to NOT consider it a long term solution.


----------



## ManBeard

Quote: 





thaddy said:


> Honestly though, how many software updates are required to achieve bit-perfect output?  HiFace owners shouldn't be required to update their software weekly.  IMO, not a good reason to NOT consider it a long term solution.


 

 There's been 4 official updates to the Windows driver and 5 updates to the Mac driver since the Hiface was released about 1 year ago. That's a lot less than most computer hardware.


----------



## ninjikiran

on top of this, the driver updates don't make any major changes
 .
   
  It basically adds support for different output formats,  so you can use your preferred bit-perfect output mode whether it be Kernel Streaming or WASAPI.
   
  Then a driver that lets you use it similar to a normal sound card with Direct Sound so you can send everything else through the transport and not just music from an audio player supporting Bit-perfect output formats.
   
  At the very least that is what I gather from the FAQ.  Unless anyone else with experience can comment on that, ill keep with that logic.  There really doesn't seem to be much done in the driver itself besides being an interface between OS and the HiFace.  Or at the very least the software shouldn't be doing much at all.
  Quote: 





manbeard said:


> There's been 4 official updates to the Windows driver and 5 updates to the Mac driver since the Hiface was released about 1 year ago. That's a lot less than most computer hardware.


----------



## shogo33

At the end of the day, i've got and am currently using a HiFace, and cant wait to put it up against the DI from audio-gd.  The better sounding unit (to my ears) will stay and the other will go.  My only quam about going usb is that i'm using it
  plugged into my laptop and bloody dell has only given 2 usb ports on the side with the xps studio 16.  Need a usb hub soon...


----------



## Currawong

People love making mountains out of molehills here.  As long as someone feels a device makes a worthy difference for the money they spent on it, there shouldn't be a problem with whatever you buy.  We now have at least 4 interesting options at various price points to improve the digital input of our DACs: The Halide, Hiface, jkeny Hiface and USBFace.  That's 4 more than we had not long ago.


----------



## johangrb

Don't forget the new M2Tech Evo! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  (Mine is en route).


----------



## Audio Bling

Quote: 





currawong said:


> People love making mountains out of molehills here.  As long as someone feels a device makes a worthy difference for the money they spent on it, there shouldn't be a problem with whatever you buy.  We now have at least 4 interesting options at various price points to improve the digital input of our DACs: The Halide, Hiface, jkeny Hiface and USBFace.  That's 4 more than we had not long ago.


 

  
[size=10pt][size=10pt]So you are saying performance doesn’t matter? More a question of how much one can afford to pay and whether the product is subjectively “interesting” or not? That’s it? [/size][/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt]I can understand you wanting to keep things simple. But not so simple so as to dumb it down, please. If you feel others are making foolish comment then don’t resort to vague generalisation. Take them to task; be specific; begin to discuss. [/size][/size]


----------



## leeperry

currawong said:


> People love making mountains out of molehills here.


 

 Now, you're being sarcastic.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Quote: 





currawong said:


> People love making mountains out of molehills here.  As long as someone feels a device makes a worthy difference for the money they spent on it, there shouldn't be a problem with whatever you buy.  We now have at least 4 interesting options at various price points to improve the digital input of our DACs: The Halide, Hiface, jkeny Hiface and USBFace.  That's 4 more than we had not long ago.


 
   
  Agreed. I just read through all 22 pages waiting to find a single review here that never came. Ugh. Wonder what it is about this topic that keeps threads developing like this...


----------



## Currawong

What I said is what I said. Don't try and make it out to be more than what it is.


----------



## ninjikiran

Mid august more than likely
  Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Agreed. I just read through all 22 pages waiting to find a single review here that never came. Ugh. Wonder what it is about this topic that keeps threads developing like this...


----------



## punk_guy182

I'll receive it by next week (DI version B + PSU).
  I'll bring it on August 14th at the Montreal Head-Fi Summer meet. http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/492315/summer-montreal-meet-august-14th
  I'll also have the hiface jkeny mod for those interested in doing a direct comparaison between the 2 units.


----------



## ninjikiran

Looking forward to it! (the comparison I mean)
  
  Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> I'll receive it by next week (DI version B + PSU).
> I'll bring it on August 14th at the Montreal Head-Fi Summer meet. http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/492315/summer-montreal-meet-august-14th
> I'll also have the hiface jkeny mod for those interested in doing a direct comparaison between the 2 units.


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> I'll receive it by next week (DI version B + PSU).
> I'll bring it on August 14th at the Montreal Head-Fi Summer meet. http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/492315/summer-montreal-meet-august-14th
> I'll also have the hiface jkeny mod for those interested in doing a direct comparaison between the 2 units.


 

 Any chance of reviewing the JKHiface elsewhere (not on this thread obviously ) - I've asked you what you think of it by email & PM but got no reply! Maybe you don't want to say?


----------



## tim3320070

Why would you ask this of him, here? This does not seem appropriate given your interest in this debate as a MOT.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Quote: 





currawong said:


> What I said is what I said. Don't try and make it out to be more than what it is.


 

 I certainly didn't speak for you. I just acknowledged your point and then added my own. I apologize if I gave anyone that impression.


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





jkeny said:


> As I said, I emailed & PMed him but no answer & this is the first post of his I happened across. I also asked not to post it in this thread! It's just a simple request not a thread hijacking!


 

 Listen, it just does not seem appropriate this be in a thread of a competitor to you in any form whatsoever- how can I be wrong here?


----------



## Currawong

I have to agree that a comparison review of both would probably be better suited to it's own thread.


----------



## ninjikiran

Not going to argue your point but, it would make it more interesting.  Two in depth reviews, one an unknown quantity where the other is a well liked quantity.  Both written by the same guy which goes deeper than a 1 paragraph comparison 
  Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> Why would you ask this of him, here? This does not seem appropriate given your interest in this debate as a MOT.


----------



## shawn_low

Well, I'm gonna contact one of the Australian testers (Kunal) to see if can test it side-by-side with my M2 Tech Hiface.
   
  The Hiface has several competitor products (as Currawong mentioned earlier), but nothing comes close to it by way of compact/quality ratio. The Halide maybe...


----------



## ninjikiran

The Halide is probably an overpriced Hi-Face in terms of performance.  Granted I don't own either but seems to be the case with certain audio products in this price bracket bracket.
  Quote: 





shawn_low said:


> Well, I'm gonna contact one of the Australian testers (Kunal) to see if can test it side-by-side with my M2 Tech Hiface.
> 
> The Hiface has several competitor products (as Currawong mentioned earlier), but nothing comes close to it by way of compact/quality ratio. The Halide maybe...


----------



## digger945

I've owned the Bridge for over 2 months now. I had a HiFace for about 2 weeks. I wanted to do some testing and measurements on both but my schedule limited me to just listening. It was a like new RCA HiFace, purchased on Agon. I sold my Stereovox cable when I got the Bridge so the only two ways I had to use it was with a 2m Wyde Eye or 2m Blue Jeans Belden 1694A, and tried it briefly with a short ~1" double male RCA adapter and USB extention cable. It sounded pretty good. I wanted to do some modding and stuff but I decided to just wait it out and see what the EVO looks and sounds like. Maybe this winter I can give it another go with the HiFace.
   
  Seems to me like I read about someone receiving the EVO one day this week. Can't remember.
   
  I do believe that M2Tech is on to something here. It will be interesting to see, and hear.


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





ninjikiran said:


> Not going to argue your point but, it would make it more interesting.  Two in depth reviews, one an unknown quantity where the other is a well liked quantity.  Both written by the same guy which goes deeper than a 1 paragraph comparison


 
  I think you got my point wrong here- I am asking for direct,open comparisons. Jkeny wants this comparison to be private seemingly.


----------



## ninjikiran

I did and that would be my fault.  I was just under the assumption that he was just asking for a review on his product in an unrelated thread not necessarily private. 
  Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> I think you got my point wrong here- I am asking for direct,open comparisons. Jkeny wants this comparison to be private seemingly.


----------



## mmerrill99

My request was probably thoughtless - I didn't want to hijack this thread or introduce the modified Hiface into it - I just wanted to contact Punk_guy182 to get some feedback from him as I hadn't heard anything from him after received the unit. He is usually so prolific in his posts & emails (as I said to him ) This was his first post on the forum for a while. He has since made contact with me. Apologies for the intrusion! 
   
  I think there might have been an audio meet in Montreal on Sat. to which he was bringing the modified Hiface & DI (if it arrived on time) so hopefully he can report back here as to how it went?


----------



## punk_guy182

I said it's on the 14th. I posted the link to the meet earlier: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/492315/summer-montreal-meet-august-14th


----------



## mmerrill99

Oops, sorry I got the date wrong!


----------



## ninjikiran

1-5 days till people start the reviews


----------



## santacore

I'm looking forward to hearing more about this unit.


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





realmassy said:


> I'm an Audio-GD fan, but in this case I totally agree with you Audio Bling.
> A good usb to spdif converter has a large software component, that I think is totally lacking here.
> Also, I had the chance to compare the Hiface and the Halide Bridge, and on Windows the Hiface is au pair with the Bridge  because of the proprietary drivers (things are different on Mac and Linux).
> Nevertheless, I'm curious to read reviews and opinions from the 15 testers


 
   
   
  If this Digital Interface uses the same Tenor USB input as the Ref5 DSP then it will work with Linux.  I have the Ref5DSP and the USB shows as a DigiHug USB Audio device, this is the same as found in the Stello USB converter.
   
  The Hiface on the other hand will not work with Linux and from the looks of things may never work with Linux.  I have been in contract with M2Tech for just about a year on this, no progress and my emails are starting to get shuffled around.


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





dynobot said:


> The Hiface on the other hand will not work with Linux and from the looks of things may never work with Linux.  I have been in contract with M2Tech for just about a year on this, no progress and my emails are starting to get shuffled around.


 
  Yes, I said that before, M2Tech has not been professional promising the Linux drivers and then not implementing them.
  Now they're out with a new product and people are still waiting Linux drivers for the old one.
  On the other hand the Halide works flawlessly on Linux, actually better on Linux than on Windows.


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





realmassy said:


> Yes, I said that before, M2Tech has not been professional promising the Linux drivers and then not implementing them.
> Now they're out with a new product and people are still waiting Linux drivers for the old one.
> On the other hand the Halide works flawlessly on Linux, actually better on Linux than on Windows.


 
   
  At a starting price of $450.00 the Halide is certainly NOT worth it.  Any difference in sound is will not be worth that price.  Furthermore neither the technology nor the parts justify the price.
   
  Asynch USB and Firewire on Mac or Windows does not offer an across the board substantial improvement just by itself.  On paper sure but in practical real life situations No.  Been there done that.
   
  If someone want to listen for themselves purchase a E-MU 0404 at half the cost, and get 10 times the product.  The E-MU is not only Asynch USB with spdif out, its an outstanding stand alone DAC as well.  Works with Mac, Windows, and Linux.


----------



## tim3320070

Got this little guy today (with PSU). Sounds good to me but it's been too long since I have had anything to compare to. Another high quality build toy from Kingwa for sure. 24/96 as well as 88.2 works great. No issues, plug and play.
  I'll leave it to others with other converters to comment on it's quality.


----------



## ninjikiran

Have you tried it with WASAPI?  How is it compared to your previous transport you had to have something before this  unless you were not using a computer at all for audio.
   
  Quote:


tim3320070 said:


> Got this little guy today (with PSU). Sounds good to me but it's been too long since I have had anything to compare to. Another high quality build toy from Kingwa for sure. 24/96 as well as 88.2 works great. No issues, plug and play.
> I'll leave it to others with other converters to comment on it's quality.


----------



## leeperry

88.2kHz is teh resampled by windows, the Tenor chip doesn't support it.


----------



## volume

Congratulations on being the first to receive the sample.


----------



## tim3320070

I use Media Monkey out_wave.dll out of Vista- it's my only source for music now.


----------



## JulioCat2

Does the Audio GD Digital interfase has the Tenor Chip??????

  
  Quote: 





leeperry said:


> 88.2kHz is teh resampled by windows, the Tenor chip doesn't support it.


----------



## tim3320070

Yes, where have you been?? Sorry- he's been using it for a couple of months.


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





juliocat2 said:


> Does the Audio GD Digital interfase has the Tenor Chip??????


 
   
  Sure does, and according to tests by Stereophile the TE7022 chips does not support 88.2.  But I have confirmed that it does work with ALL operating systems...Windows, Mac, and Linux.
   
http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/RE5/RE5EN.htm
   
_*[size=x-small]"Reference 5 DSP    USD1010   [/size][size=x-small] Supports up to 24Bit/96KHz (USB input upgraded to TE7022, supports up to 24Bit/96KHz input), applies Audio-gd DSP1 as digital processor. "[/size]*
 [size=10pt] [/size] _
   
http://www.stereophile.com/digitalprocessors/lindemann_amp_stello_usb-spdif_converters/
   
_"Examining the Stello's USB properties with a Mac utility called USB Prober revealed that it will operate at all legal sample rates between 8 and 96kHz, with the exception of 88.2kHz, with bit depths of 16 or 24. It will also pass encoded data, such as Dolby Digital. USB Prober identified the Stello as the "DigiHug USB Audio" from Tenor Audio."_


----------



## tim3320070

Still sounded good with 88.2- I heard no difference in SQ at all.


----------



## volume

could you please emphasise.


----------



## leeperry

dynobot said:


> TE7022 chips does not support 88.2


 

http://www.gfec.com.tw/word_file/TE7022PB-v15.pdf


----------



## Zorlac

Here is a good link as well on the same site:
   
http://www.gfec.com.tw/pro_list.php?language_page=big5&class1_serial=141&class2_serial=169


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> http://www.gfec.com.tw/word_file/TE7022PB-v15.pdf


 
   
   
  Great info...Thanks


----------



## tim3320070

Can the OP change the title to read Digital Interface rather than USBFace?


----------



## chronomitch

Just in case there is still any doubt, I emailed Kingwa concerning 88.2KHz support, and he verified that this product DOES NOT support 88.2KHz.


----------



## tim3320070

It just converts it- you still can hear it and it sounds no different to my ears.


----------



## volume

What are your views when compared to direct usb to DAC


----------



## wushuliu

Not tryin' to hate on tim - well, I am a little bit - but why send samples to someone who doesn't have any frame of reference to judge? all this waiting and the first review that comes through amounts to a shoulder shrug. Argh.


----------



## leeperry

wushuliu said:


> why send samples to someone who doesn't have any frame of reference to judge?


 

 Because it was expected from most testers to pay the shipping costs both ways mainly...that's like +$80 if you wanted the DPS. It required very dedicated testers indeed.


----------



## chronomitch

Quote: 





wushuliu said:


> Not tryin' to hate on tim - well, I am a little bit - but why send samples to someone who doesn't have any frame of reference to judge? all this waiting and the first review that comes through amounts to a shoulder shrug. Argh.


 

 Not to mention that he isn't even using WASAPI, ASIO, or another bit-perfect method of output. Likewise, I'm not complaining about Tim here. I'm just a little angry that Kingwa didn't give a test unit to someone a little more knowledgeable about computer audio. Meh, that's life.


----------



## tim3320070

So educate me then oh mighty ones. What should I have set up for optimum audio that works better than wave on MM? I have tried Fubar and hear no difference (nor with iTunes). I hear no difference using an old DVD player thru the same system. Contemplate all you want but they sound the same.
  I was not truly part of the test team, just ordered early and paid for it in full and shipping was part of other items ordered.
  I was going to leave it to the people that had gear to compare to- I made that clear.
   
  Edit: I will say that my music never sounded better- the only change has been the DI for now (testing the Ref-8 as well). But it has been a while since I've had the Ref-1 in play due to lack of a converter FWIW. It's _not _going back to Kingwa for sure.


----------



## wushuliu

If you were not actually part of the test team then never mind. It's nothing against you personally. I thought only test samples were sent out. I tried to order one a few weeks ago and was told to wait until the reviews were done...

  
  Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> So educate me then oh mighty ones. What should I have set up for optimum audio that works better than wave on MM? I have tried Fubar and hear no difference (nor with iTunes). I hear no difference using an old DVD player thru the same system. Contemplate all you want but they sound the same.
> I was not truly part of the test team, just ordered early and paid for it in full and shipping was part of other items ordered.


----------



## tim3320070

Understood, just need people who were sent this to compare to what they have in house. Don't blame Kingwa, he was being a good guy with me (as usual), that's all.


----------



## chronomitch

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> So educate me then oh mighty ones. What should I have set up for optimum audio that works better than wave on MM? I have tried Fubar and hear no difference (nor with iTunes).
> I was not truly part of the test team, just ordered early and paid for it in full.


 

 Sorry, I didn't mean to sound condescending. If you don't care about bit perfect output or can't tell the difference, then that's all well and good. The problem is that many of us do care and were hoping for a little more information. I think it would have been better for Kingwa to give out some test units free of charge to knowledgeable people for independent review purposes. Such a practice is not uncommon for audiophile companies when they release a new product.
   
  FYI, using WASAPI or ASIO will bypass the Windows mixer by some degree, which is known for messing with audio (resampling, not bit perfect, etc). For those of us trying to get as clean and accurate an audio signal to an external DAC, we use WASAPI or ASIO output.
   
  It looks like Media Monkey offers an ASIO output plugin. I don't know about WASAPI, though. You might want to give it a try.


----------



## shogo33

Just a quick impression so far after listening for an hour.  This is via DI + PSU, Oppo BDP83SE Coax out, A-GD Dac3SE, Weston Acoustics Tempest tube amp, DIY Backloaded Horn speakers using Decware DFR8's.  Used Jack Johnson live in Paris cd as a test.
   
  Without the DI + PSU, the soundstage is more defined, but heaps smaller and slighly harsh on some tracks.  With the DI+PSU engaged, the soundstage is very wide,  is much more smoother, warmer and mellower, but bass wasnt as tight.  Vocals were much more focused within the soundstage, but was smoother.   My impressions so far, YMMV..


----------



## tim3320070

I use Vista which I understand does not use a mixer- the ASIO plugin does not work thru my MM and setup, only direct sound and wave. I have tried DVD/CD players via optical and coax, Fubar, MediaMonkey, iTunes to the REF-1 and Phoenix and they are all nearly indistinguishable with uncompressed files.


----------



## rpgmasterk

I got it 8/11 and make a first day detail review in http://www.playwares.com/xe/pc_fi_info/14597811.
  Sadly, I don't have enough english skill to write in English on those popular sites so ...and... nowdays i have too many schedule to work 
   
  However! i tried to listen and compare those things, make a time and Listened.
   

   
  Briefly talking about comparing with those lower price ddc like Musiland 01USD, M2tech Hiface, Javs UDT-1, etc...
   
  Even King-wa said he send it only get 100 hours burn-in, this Digital Interface with PSU, absolutely better than 01USD and have more musical flavor, netral sound not too biased sound.
   
  My system is like this.
  DDC -> Musiland SRC10 Upsampler + MD10 DAC -> Cyrus Pre X VS2 Preamp + Smart Power Plus Poweramp
   
  When I'm using those DDCs on my system, feel too sharpness like hardened sound, too luz sound or like too soft sound on using 01USD, hiface and etc DDCs.
   
  But, Frankly speaking, Digital interface, It's so amazing.
  This one give my system all of things those speed, power, and more warming sound quility, especially balancing of sounds.
  And during my burn-in, it's sound be better and better than now. It make me have a big expectation about this D/I.
   
  the only worse point is...  cuz of te7702 chipset, it doesn't support 88.2or 176.4 khz.
  I have a lot of losses format PC music but most of classic - especially symponies - are recorded 88.2 or 88khz. Surely,cuz I use Media Center 15 and WASAPI, I can upsample those sources.. but... have some inconvenience.
   
  Now our group concern how can we use that DSP3's I2S interface.
  After enough burn-in, I wanna try to take thos I2S sounds.
   
  Design... well.. good.. but, if the swich to change input(usb, coax) break black and clear front design if it can, i wanna it to behind or D/I but i can't  orz
   
  Thank you for reading.
   
  P.S - Of course, when using the only USB power make some jitter than Using PSU but even like those situation, it's better than other like hiface. it's so interesting.


----------



## Audio Bling

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Â
> 
> Because it was expected from most testers to pay the shipping costs both ways mainly...that's like +$80 if you wanted the DPS. It required very dedicated testers indeed.


 

 Why such a sloppy post?

_Re: "shipping costs .. +$80"_
  Depending on where you ship to.. For me, much less.
   
_Re: "It required very dedicated testers indeed"_
  Not me. I am doing it for the fun. Am I the only one?


----------



## ninjikiran

Vista's Mixer might not be damaging like XP's since it supposedly doesn't do anything but digital volume and sample rate (supposedly it is darn good).  But it is still converting all your music to a master sample rate.  Meaning if you leave it at default its 16-bit 44.1khz.  Meaning 48khz+ songs will more than likely be downsampled unless someone knows otherwise.
   
  WASAPI skips the windows sound layer all together and doesn't require a special driver like ASIO usually does.  Nor is it fake ASIO like ASIO4ALL.  Best of all anyone with Vista/Win7 can use it so long as your driver(in this case it does over USB using the standard driver) supports bit-perfect transport you are good to go.  If it doesn't it'll complain to you when you play a song that can't be sent through.
  Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> I use Vista which I understand does not use a mixer- the ASIO plugin does not work thru my MM and setup, only direct sound and wave. I have tried DVD/CD players via optical and coax, Fubar, MediaMonkey, iTunes to the REF-1 and Phoenix and they are all nearly indistinguishable with uncompressed files.


----------



## volume

I received mine ,doing some listening now.


----------



## lag0a

I'm not quite knowledgable about power supplies but if Kingwa saids his PSU doesn't do much for his Audio-gd DI then would another PSU really make the Audio-gd DI shine? I've heard about the sigma 11 and linear power supplies going with these USB-Spdif devices. I'm looking forward to the review of the hiface stock vs Audio-gd DI with and without the PSU, and then moving on the the jkeny-mod hiface and the hiface evo. Which is the best of the best?


----------



## regal

Quote: 





lag0a said:


> . I'm looking forward to the review of the hiface stock vs Audio-gd DI with and without the PSU, and then moving on the the jkeny-mod hiface and the hiface evo. Which is the best of the best?


 


 No one is going to tell you an honest opinion of these options,  sometimes you have to use a little common sense and decide what will work best for you. 
   
  Does it not tell you something that the DI has little improvement with the PS upgrade?
  As an engineer you learn to identify bottleknecks.  So feeding a digital component the worst possible power (USB 5v+) vs linear PS = no upgrade.  That means the PS is not the bottlekneck,  its elsewhere .
   
  What does this AudioGD DI TE7022 offer over the TerralinkX2 for twice the price other than upsampling (which anyone can do for free in Foobar with the SOX plugin)?  It has a PLL if you don't listen to HDCD I guess thats an improvement?  Personally I'll stick with my Terralinx adum isolated and my Hiface battery powered.  Don't see the need to break out the CC for this AudioGD product its not revolutionary by any means.


----------



## Bullseye

Lol! Someone finds no difference when using this product (not that I am surprised), and he gets bashed for it... SO sad...
   
  tim3320070, don't need to apologize for anything towards anyone. You just shared your opinion (that's what this forums are supposed to be for), you did it your way and it is perfect. However you should learn from your experience (and from other sources as well), and not let anyone else tell you what you should have done or not...


----------



## regal

What Lee is implying is that the testers might not be as subjective as they could have been.  $80 is a weeks groceries for most and while may be fun for you it definitaly impacted the testers mindstate as far as convincing themselves it wasn't a waste.
   
   
  Quote: 





audio bling said:


> Why such a sloppy post?
> 
> _Re: "shipping costs .. +$80"_
> Depending on where you ship to.. For me, much less.
> ...


----------



## haloxt

Quote: 





bullseye said:


> Lol! Someone finds no difference when using this product (not that I am surprised), and he gets bashed for it... SO sad...
> 
> tim3320070, don't need to apologize for anything towards anyone. You just shared your opinion (that's what this forums are supposed to be for), you did it your way and it is perfect. However you should learn from your experience (and from other sources as well), and not let anyone else tell you what you should have done or not...


 

 He was referring to 88khz converting and not hearing a difference between software players and software settings, not being bashed because he "finds no difference when using this product". Also he has experience with other converters, just that he doesn't want to do a comparison based on memory, but let others with other converters in house to do it.
   
  Someone has said vista's built-in music handling can be less damaging than xp. From listening comparisons between two computers I think this is possibly sometimes true. There's many options for bit-perfect nonetheless, probably only 1-2 for MM, and if I remember correctly you have to really click around MM options before it'll work right. If you decide to use another player, I would recommend either 1.0 foobar KS or WASAPI for ease of installation and setup, or cmp+cplay (or just cplay) if you don't mind a very user-unfriendly player (graphic UI designed for ease of remote-control) that can buffer music into ram to reduce the effect of i/o interference and close some windows processes.


----------



## leeperry

haloxt said:


> Someone has said vista's built-in music handling can be less damaging than xp. From listening comparisons between two computers I think this is possibly sometimes true.


 

 If the sliders are all maxed out, XP's KMixer is bit-perfect. OTOH, DS in Vista/W7 cannot be made bit-perfect: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=49350&view=findpost&p=522247
   
_"the underlying reason for this is that the kernel mixer of vista isn't bitperfect anymore unlike its predecessors from XP and 2000. In vista either kernel streaming (non-WaveRT version) or wasapi (both WaveRT/non-WaveRT versions) is thus required to get bitperfect PCM sound and thus supported."_
   
  32fp can transport 23int losslessly, another "improvement" of their newer OS' I presume.
   


audio bling said:


> Why such a sloppy post?
> 
> _Re: "shipping costs .. +$80"_
> Depending on where you ship to.. For me, much less.
> ...


 

 Because if someone's happy w/ his low jitter transport(and these don't come cheap), there's no chance he's gonna shell out ±$100 to try an interface running a DSP w/o any specs available whatsoever...in those days, a proper transport must:
  -provide galvanic isolation on its USB input
  -reclock to lower jitter, because the Tenor chip only has a 12Mhz PLL
  -run off a low ripple linear regulated PSU
  -be housed in a thick metal case, working as a faraday cage


----------



## Audio Bling

Quote: 





regal said:


> What Lee is implying is that the testers might not be as subjective as they could have been.  $80 is a weeks groceries for most and while may be fun for you it definitaly impacted the testers mindstate as far as convincing themselves it wasn't a waste.


 

 So you are saying that testers are likely to be influenced toward a positive review by the fact that +$80 would be spent if the thing is a dog. Perhaps. Let's see. It might have the opposite effect too for the reason they will have to stump up with even more $$ to keep it. For me, it is going to have to razzle-dazzle me else it is going back.


----------



## leeperry

audio bling said:


> For me, it is going to have to razzle-dazzle me else it is going back.


 
   
  Compared to the Musiland in your signature you mean?


----------



## tim3320070

Haloxt actually read my posts correctly, thanks. I have tried to do bitperfect (did with Foobar for a while) but there is no difference to me with any of the players I've tried. MM works pretty well as I use FLAC files primarily.
   
  I have A/B'd the PSU vs.USB power thru my system and cannot hear a difference (it's as simple as switching it back and forth, no unplugging needed). Kingwa said improvement was minor and I believe him. More revealing/better setup systems (bitperfect 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) might reveal the difference.
   
  I will keep it for a while just in case.


----------



## punk_guy182

I just received my DI + PSU.
   
  So far I can tell that the Hiface jkeny mod sounds better in terms of details, dynamics and soundstage (airiness and 3D spatial positioning of instruments or sounds) which is a big plus for me. However, I find that the DI doesn't have this over emphasize on highs that the Hiface has and I find the sound very musical.
  The DI still needs a lot more burning in before I can make a definitive judgement on its sound signature.
   
  I'll report back when I have more findings.
   
  Tomorow is the Montreal summer head-Fi Meet and I hope to see a lot of people there with their rigs.


----------



## Currawong

Kingwa asked me if I was interested in trying one and though I need more audio gear like I need a hole in the head, I gave in out of sheer curiosity. So far I have experimented comparing my CD player direct into the Ref 1. Direct instruments seem more wooden, but through the DI the subtle texture of notes comes through and they sound more natural.


----------



## Audio Bling

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Compared to the Musiland in your signature you mean?


 

 No. I also have an EA Freeway2 with linear PS. A friend has an EA Off Ramp with superclock which will also be used for a comparo. My Musiland has been mod'ed with true 75ohm BNC and linear PS. It is a nice sounding device. Others who have made the same mods to the Musiland have said as much. Check out the posts over on Audioasylum.com particularly those by fmak.


----------



## seaninbrisbane

Can't wait to see some reviews of the Audio-gd unit.  I'm putting off my purchase until then - wonder how it compares with the Firestone Bravo???


----------



## shogo33

Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> I just received my DI + PSU.
> 
> However, I find that the DI doesn't have this over emphasize on highs that the Hiface has and I find the sound very musical.
> The DI still needs a lot more burning in before I can make a definitive judgement on its sound signature.


 

 Hmm, interesting findings as I've noted a similar finding with demo'ing the stock BNC hiface to the DI + PSU.  The stock hiface has a much more 'forward' sound with the high's and mid's being overemphasised.  The DI +PSU combo sounds more natural without overemphasis on either end of the sound.  In my system, it does add another depth of 'warmth' to the sound, but in some musical tracks, it may seem too much as my system is warm sounding anyways.  My findings so far. 
   
  I also did use the DI without the PSU, and I cant notice any additional improvements to the sound.  I'm assuming here that the DI unit does have decent filtering built in and when used with a USB power source (from a PC or Laptop).  I think the PSU will add some benefit if used with a cdplayer as a transport.  Currently using my Oppo BDP83SE as a transport and it was reviewed by Home Theater Secrets that it has a low jitter coax out.  So maybe this does not use the DI capabilities to the fullest to reduce jitter.   I will test it out further by using an old sony cheap dvd player as a cd transport and hook this up to the DI+PSU to see if i can hear a difference.  Will keep you updated.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I've found the J River Media Center 15 and Win7 using WASAPI give vastly superior sound quality compared to XP/XP Media Center...then again I'm using a decent SC (Auzen Prelude that has bit perfect output and recording capability) for transport duty and do not use anything but COAX SPDIF. I don't have any issues with ground loops or any other extraneous noise. Is it as good as the CD7 ? No but it's pretty darn close to it.  I found MM did not truly support bit perfect output nor does it have WASAPI plug in (yet...I hear the next revision of MM should rectify that). I really like Media Center 15...it's a bit cumbersome but very cool.
   
  Peete.


----------



## bridge8989

any reviews on this yet?


----------



## volume

I need to do some more testing before I post my review.


----------



## bridge8989

o ok thanks looking forward to your review


----------



## Audio Bling

[size=10pt]Probably a good idea to let the DI burn-in as much as possible. My DAC-19DSP was all over the place in its first week. I made the mistake of posting my early impressions. Considering how much it has improved (since then) this was foolish (and misleading).[/size]


----------



## Currawong

There are no analogue stages and no transistors so I don't imagine that with time, use will make any difference personally.


----------



## volume

The USB power passes several transistor coupled filters.


----------



## seaninbrisbane

Placed an order for the B version - looking forward to hearing it...
   
  Received this email from Audio gd:
   
   
 [size=medium] Dear Sean,[/size]
 [size=medium] The digital interface still test by testers, now only can read a few reviews. Do you want to waiting some time to read more reviews?[/size]
 [size=medium] The version B price is USD130.[/size]
 [size=medium] SHipping cost is 16.5 by EMS.[/size]
 [size=medium] Total price is USD151.4 include Paypal handling charge.[/size]
Reply from Audio-gd:

Dear Sean,
The digital interface still test by testers, now only can read a few reviews. Do you want to waiting some time to read more reviews?
The version B price is USD130.
SHipping cost is 16.5 by EMS.
Total price is USD151.4 include Paypal handling charge.

The unit came to A$171 including shipping an PayPal fee. Can't wait to try it out.
Reply from Audio-gd:

 Dear Sean,
 The digital interface still test by testers, now only can read a few reviews. Do you want to waiting some time to read more reviews?
 The version B price is USD130.
 SHipping cost is 16.5 by EMS.
 Total price is USD151.4 include Paypal handling charge.

 The unit came to A$171 including shipping an PayPal fee. Can't wait to try it out.


----------



## shogo33

Sean,
  Good advice from A-GD.  Wait till the reviews come out and then go ahead.  Yesterday i did some comparisons and still not wanting to make a decision yet.  I will use the full 2 weeks to get a better impression of the unit.


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote: 





seaninbrisbane said:


> Placed an order for the B version - looking forward to hearing it...
> 
> Received this email from Audio gd:
> 
> ...


 
  I say go for it! My unit is not done with the burning it process but I like very much how it sounds like so far.
  If you're looking for something that has a neutral sound then this is what you need. I have the hiface jkenny mod to compare it with and I find the DI's sound more balanced accross the frequency spectrum. There aren't selected frequencies that are more pushed forward or overempasized. The unit offers a quite linear sound with nice instrument separation. My DAC and amp are high end and they give a very neutral sound. Therefore I am prone to hear the sound signature of the hiface which I find not totally neutral. I however should wait before making a final judgement on the unit. The one I received had no burning in time on it so I should wait until next week before making any final comments.
   
  So far so good for the price and I couldn't tell any significant difference in terms SQ with the use of the external  power supply unit. I'll see in a week if the PSU will offer an increase in SQ or not. By then the sound of the unit should have matured completely and there should be no need for further burning in.


----------



## seaninbrisbane

As my music collection varies so much I was hoping for it to be neutral, like the rest of my system. Anyway, it's ordered and paid for; it's the last link in my system so I was a bit impatient!
   
  My system will be:
   
  MacBook Pro -> Audio-gd interface -> Channel Islands VDA-2 DAC (with upgraded PSU) -> Primare i20 amp ->Usher S520 speakers.
   
  PS: any idea on shipping times via EMS?


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote: 





seaninbrisbane said:


> PS: any idea on shipping times via EMS?


 
  One to one and half week if youre in Canada. Sometimes it might take longer because the package is stalling on the shelves of EMS in China before making its way on the cargo plane.


----------



## seaninbrisbane

As I couldn't afford the upgraded PSU I've been looking on eBay for a power adapter - Audio-gd recommends DC5V to 10V, preferably DC7V/400mA.  I could only find 7V 300MA or 500mA - which should I go for? Cheers


----------



## volume

I would say , wait for your unit to arrive,by that time there will be many reviews with/witheout the PSU, then decide whether you need it.
   
  Decisions in haste mostly are waste.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





seaninbrisbane said:


> As I couldn't afford the upgraded PSU I've been looking on eBay for a power adapter - Audio-gd recommends DC5V to 10V, preferably DC7V/400mA.  I could only find 7V 300MA or 500mA - which should I go for? Cheers


 

 The 7V 500mA adapter should be fine.
   
  Peete.


----------



## Audio Bling

Quote: 





seaninbrisbane said:


> As I couldn't afford the upgraded PSU I've been looking on eBay for a power adapter - Audio-gd recommends DC5V to 10V, preferably DC7V/400mA.  I could only find 7V 300MA or 500mA - which should I go for? Cheers


 


  
  [size=medium][size=10pt]I would not recommend you get a Switch Mode PS. (I suspect the units on eBay would be SMPS). [/size][/size]
  [size=medium] [/size]
  [size=medium][size=10pt]From reports so far, I would not be inclined to worry too much about an external power supply (as it doesn’t seem to make a difference). But if you are determined to get one then try to find a linear PS. I suspect this would not be easy (or cheap) in AUS. I think the A-gd unit is a bargain but I haven’t actually seen (or heard) one yet.[/size][/size]


----------



## shogo33

U're probably better off getting the audio-gd psu unit, it's built purposely for the DI and takes the guess work out of powering the DI.  If u're using the DI strictly for USB from a pc or laptop as a source, i wouldnt worry too much about the psu upgrade.  However, if you're planning on using it with a cdp, then you will require an external psu.


----------



## seaninbrisbane

Only intend to use it for usb from macbook.Will leave the psu for now.


----------



## volume

I would have to say,very difficult to write this review,I'am struggling.
  I have never had such difficulty in convincing myself about audio gear.


----------



## seaninbrisbane

Struggling trying to convince yourself in what way?...Give us a little bit of information!


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





audio bling said:


> Â
> 
> 
> Â
> ...


 
  Whoa there trigger- 2 reports only so far. There should be no conclusions made.


----------



## Audio Bling

Ah, ya got me.. Mea culpa. But really the post was a warning about SMPS.


----------



## bridge8989

good or bad?? sounds like a negative review.
  
  Quote: 





volume said:


> I would have to say,very difficult to write this review,I'am struggling.
> I have never had such difficulty in convincing myself about audio gear.


----------



## punk_guy182

Actually the PSU is useful when the DI is used with a computer which has poor USB implementation on the motherboard.


----------



## Dalamar

Quote: 





bridge8989 said:


> good or bad?? sounds like a negative review.


 

 A $10 usb to coax converter would be just as good for hundreds less. Yet another snake oil product.


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote: 





dalamar said:


> A $10 usb to coax converter would be just as good for hundreds less. Yet another snake oil product.


 







! Oh really?


----------



## tranhieu

Quote: 





dalamar said:


> A $10 usb to coax converter would be just as good for hundreds less. Yet another snake oil product.


 
  are you one of those testers Audiogd mentioned in his site? Or have you received your unit (if you ever purchased one)?


----------



## ninjikiran

cheapest you can get these things is about $30-$40 and I highly doubt its going to be of good construction, nor do I think its going to have a controller capable of accepting up to bare mininum 24-bit/96khz.
   
  For instance, http://www.qlshifi.com/en/wzcapi/usb_to_spdif.htm
   
  While that is oversimplifying it there are over variables that could cause more errors than need be in the stream which will result in an output that is not perfect.
   
  Regardless transports should be something you buy once and never again   They should theoretically be completely transparent.  I will reserve judgement when I finally get my hands on some kind of transport that is not my sound card but I don't expect to hear any differences.
   
  Quote: 





dalamar said:


> A $10 usb to coax converter would be just as good for hundreds less. Yet another snake oil product.


----------



## bridge8989

please dont troll this thread too if you have never used this product.  and yes I really need a DAC and amp.
  
  Quote: 





dalamar said:


> A $10 usb to coax converter would be just as good for hundreds less. Yet another snake oil product.


----------



## tim3320070

This guy thrives on this- stop responding to him and maybe he goes away (check his other responses on other topics). I don't discredit everything he states but mostly how he states it as though he were an angry teenager that's got life figured out at 17.


----------



## haloxt

Is that in alice in wonderland currency, Dalamar?


----------



## Currawong

Just report his posts and don't reply to them.  Even if we linked too all the mathematics (indisputable) that form the basis for digital transmission, including the electronics, and the extensive research conducted by people on it, he'd just ignore it and still troll.
   
  I had an interesting experience the other night playing with the DI.  I had been using an RCA cable from Van Den Hul between my Ref 3 and Ref 1 for a while.  While testing the DI I used it as well.  Just to see if it had any effect, I switched to a shorter Canare BNC cable I had on hand, and some "glare" (for want of a better description) that had been annoying me in some music, such as with the piano in Dave Brubeck's Take Out, was reduced noticeably.


----------



## dura

Reported. As 'minor', seemed fitting to me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Did you use the van den Hul as a digital IC?
  I did the same yesterday; I had a van den Hul the First Ultimate as a digital interconnect between my new Squeezebox Touch and the REF5 and didn't much like the sharp, upfront sound. Then I switched to a Digiflex Gold which gave a more pleasant, full sound. 
   
  And, attention attention, finally, real objective proof digital interconnects do make a difference: when using the van den Hul, if I switch on my (remote controlled) lights the sound stops for a second, appearantly my REF5 is provoked in shutting down temporarily. When I use the digiflex there is no pause in the sound. Weird...


----------



## GWorlDofSPACE

I received my unit yesterday so until its running and first listening
  moments had been very revealing in playing classical music.
  This is the genre where the unit was wonderful. It adds a black background that
  I missed in digital reproduction.
  I also noticed some glare as posted by currawong on some tracks.
  I have an idea it could be the digital cable but also the silver wire insulating transformer maybe, I am also not a friend of SOLEN caps. I would rather use obbligato, they sound more analogue like.
  This are just a few thoughts for now.


----------



## lag0a

Yeah. I didn't believe cables made a difference either when I first got into building my first DAC/AMP headphone system but just for the sake of it I wanted to have quality cables to start off with in case it really matters and someone told me about a pair of Analysis Plus Silver-Oval Ins(RCA) and an Analysis Plus Digital interconnect(RCA). I didn't know how a DAC and AMP suppose to sound like with earphones and headphones at first but everything sounded congested. I just knew the DAC/AMP combo definately sounded better than the sound coming from my auzentech x-meridian sound card even with the opa637sm opamp in it even though it was like 10x the cost. I was determined to hear good music and hifidelity sounds by building this headphone system. First I tried some Oyaide power cables and they made a dramatic improvement. I was amazed by the depth it provided to the sound. Then I changed my wall outlet to a porter port and it balanced the frequency of the music. Later on I switch to some Aural Harmony Sonnet-R XLR and that opened the sound a lot because those Analysis Plus RCAs are not really meant for a headphone system or it could be because they are RCA. I have no idea. The last piece I changed was the Analysis Plus digital interconnect to one of those belden digital interconnect and the sound opened more again but maybe not as accurate as the Analysis Plus digital interconnect but I kind of figured out Analysis Plus isn't for headphone systems. Maybe more for speakers. Anyhow, this pursuit for accurate and natural analogue sounds from digital gear is like a whole new world for me now. The most confusing aspect is there are so many different name brand products but one is suppose to do better than the other for whatever price range or some products costing 10x just suck compared to some newer digital sound chips. Then I found out a few months ago that I can ditch my sound card for this kind of USB-SPDIF interface and it can provide better sound for my DAC/AMP is just wonderful. Just my random thoughts and experience here on this matter about cables. Who knows what else is there?


----------



## regal

Oh Geeze now Dalamar it starting to sound credible,  please keep the cables voodo in the cables forum


----------



## lag0a

Sorry for interrupting the Audio-gd DI thread. I just felt I needed to share my experience here after reading about some changes in sound from using different cables on the Audio-gd DI unit because it gave new life to my DAC/AMP and my appreciation for cables now.


----------



## GWorlDofSPACE

Quote: 





regal said:


> Oh Geeze now Dalamar it starting to sound credible,  please keep the cables voodo in the cables forum


 

 It maybe not so irrelevant to this topic. I assume you do not believe into cable voodoo but
  I was a disbeliever time ago.
  Cables do matter. If subjectively or not is a good question but do you consider music as not subjective personal experience, Regal?
   
  Back to DI.
  I also noticed the sound has body!!!! Thats for me one of most important things.


----------



## seaninbrisbane

Any comparisons with the HiFace or other USB interfaces yet?


----------



## ninjikiran

Quote: 





regal said:


> Oh Geeze now Dalamar it starting to sound credible,  please keep the cables voodo in the cables forum


 

 Hahaha Regal you are the man


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

I received my DI version A unit without the power supply yesterday. I think there's possibibly a problem with my Windows XP USB set-up as the moment I put in the DI, the detection routine goes on well and it appears  under Hardware devices as DigiHub Audio USB. After that, I install the USB ASIO program. Unfortunately, playing back through the USB ASIO caused stutters and distortions. After removing the USB ASIO and reinserting the DI, Windows started asks for the driver files and I am unable to have the system install the DI as a plug and play unit anymore. Windows Hardware device list it as DigiHub Audio but with a yellow exclamation mark saying something is wrong with the hardware. On the other hand, plugging the unit into MAC OS X on the same machine, everything is detected and the DI is running up and well. So I think the issue is with my Windows USB set-up. At this moment, I can't try out how it sounds in Windows with USB output to the DACs.

 Nevertheless, I wanted to know to know how well the DI handle Coax signal from another output. I tried the Coax output from the Prodigy HD2 soundcard into the DI and then via Coax to the FUN. The connections are with Canare LV-61s cables.

 The result is a very clean and very dark background from which the music is appearing. There's actually a blacker background and the soundstage seem to have expanded and move slightly back. I get a better feeling of the sonic image being more in front of me instead of slightly in front. Also, the glare, as Currawong mentioned, is noticeably reduced in the FUN (with the AD1852).

 Since I had the WM8471 upgrade module as well, I decided to switch that into the FUN and tried out both the connections ie Direct Coax from Prodigy HD2 and via DI. From what I hear of the two as yet fully burned in unit, they seem to have synergy. The FUN with WM8741 and DI is a totally different beast now, with timbres that's realistic and soundstage improving. I'll post impressions about the WM8741 module in the FUN thread later, but for now, early impressions are the DI do improve the Coax connections. I have yet to sort out output from the USB from my WIndows. Would have wanted to test it out especially with USB ASIO.


----------



## haloxt

You can try using another usb port.
   
  USB-audio probably does not support the TE7022 usb chip since it seems rather low-key and maybe new, you should send an email to usb-audio and ask them. But if you feel like trying again, while installing usb-audio software, make sure you have the power switched OFF on the DI, then only turn it on when it tells you to. Not following this instruction will mess things up big time.


----------



## Bojamijams

Ditto. Would love to know.
  
  Quote: 





seaninbrisbane said:


> Any comparisons with the HiFace or other USB interfaces yet?


----------



## tim3320070

I went into my Vista Control Panel and did the properties for the DI. I noticed it has settings for what sample rates it supports and the 96 was not checked. Also under the advanced tab, the default setting was 16/44.1.
   
  Do I change all these to be 24/96 as the Tenor chip does that rate? Does it not matter if Exclusive mode boxes are checked?


----------



## chronomitch

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> I went into my Vista Control Panel and did the properties for the DI. I noticed it has settings for what sample rates it supports and the 96 was not checked. Also under the advanced tab, the default setting was 16/44.1.
> 
> Do I change all these to be 24/96 as the Tenor chip does that rate? Does it not matter if Exclusive mode boxes are checked?


 

 The samples rates you see there control what sample rates are available for WASAPI and Direct Sound.
   
  First, make sure that all available sample rates are checked. This will allow your music player (Foobar2000?) to pass any of those sample rates to your sound card when using WASAPI. Also make sure that the check boxes allowing exclusive mode are checked. WASAPI is essentially what exclusive modes refers to, so it won't work correctly if that is unchecked.
   
  The default setting is the sample rate which Direct Sound and any other non-WASAPI/ASIO sound process will use. In such cases, any sounds coming from any programs at any sample rates will be upsampled/downsampled to that rate. Since the highest available rate for the Tenor chip is 24-bit 96KHz, choose that for the default rate.
   
  Off topic: Blast these forums for trying to put quotes below their responses.


----------



## tim3320070

Thanks- using MediaMonkey with wave_out- all is checked as you stated.
   
  One thing I think I notice when switching the PSU on/off is that there seems to be slightly more "flesh" to the music- could be a volume increase when PSU is engaged, I don't know how all that works. There just seems a slight bit more body around instruments and singers.
  I admit, this could be placebo but it's enough for me to keep the PSU.
  Things really sound good to me in any case.


----------



## reiserFS

Changed the thread title due to requests.


----------



## ninjikiran

What I do with my setup is WASAPI for audio making the windows setting irrelevant.  In the windows setting 24/96 or 24/48 work fine though since most games and video media are 48khz.


----------



## Audio Bling

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> Do I change all these to be 24/96 as the Tenor chip does that rate?


 


 My suggestion is to experiment with 44.1kHz (at least on CD material). You might find it preferable. The Tenor chip will process 44.1, 48, 96kHz input signals. It is a pity that it is limited to these sample rates only, IMO.
   
  I also wish that the A-gd DI & DAC had a way of displaying what sample rate it is receiving. I found this a handy feature on my old DAC. It takes the guesswork out of what the software is doing. An example of its usefulness is if you load a new piece of software which alters your configuration. The receiver (DI or DAC) could quickly alert the user that something has changed. Windows software is such a minefield. This would be a nice check.


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





dura said:


> Did you use the van den Hul as a digital IC?
> I did the same yesterday; I had a van den Hul the First Ultimate as a digital interconnect between my new Squeezebox Touch and the REF5 and didn't much like the sharp, upfront sound. Then I switched to a Digiflex Gold which gave a more pleasant, full sound.


 

 Yes, I was using the TFU as well.  I know the cable itself is 75 Ohms, but the plugs obviously not.  Will be sticking to the Canare BNC unless I decide to play with another BNC option.  I do have some 75 Ohm D300 III which were set up as cheap ICs with cheap plugs way back, so I might grab some 75 Ohm plugs and put them on instead so I have a set of identical cables to use for switching back and forth between things.
   
  I'm scratching my head at the moment deciding on the best way to experiment with the DI. I don't have any mid-range DACs around at the moment, which would be ideal for testing with and nor do friends.


----------



## Audio Bling

​   
   
  The way I understand it is that the default setting is:
  No upsampling (DIP3=OFF=1) and output is S/PDIF (DIP4=OFF=1)
   
  Not sure what DIP5 does. Anyone know _for sure_ before I throw it to Kingwa?
   
  {Comment: Confusing isn't it? => (S/PDIF=ON)=(DIP4=1=OFF)}


----------



## punk_guy182

I'm having problems running the DI with Foobar2000 in WASAPI mode. The music plays in speed mode. Does anyone else have this problem also? Other than that, It works very well in DS and KS mode.
   
  I'm running Foobar2000 v1.03 on Vista 64.


----------



## sulcata_geo

*First impression of Digital Interface*
  I 've received DI(versionA) with PSU,12th Aug. and done burn-in over 100hours.
   
  I used Digital Interface in several way
  1.PC(Windows7/WASAPI/foobar2000)>USB>DI or hiFace>Audio-gd FUN
  2.PC(Ubuntu9.04/rhythmbox)>USB>with or without DI>Audio-gd FUN DAC>GCHA
  3.PC(Ubuntu9.04/rhythmbox)>with or withoud DI>SOtM mDAC-2v>GCHA
  4)Marantz SA8400>with or without DI>Audio-gd FUN
   
  SOtM mDAC-2v is Korean midrange DAC(very clear and deteiled)
 Headphone : ATH-W5000 , HFI-780(modded) , ER-4S(ApureSound cable)
 Source(HDTracks) : Portrait of Cuba(96/24 FLAC) , Eiji Oue Stravinsky(88/24FLAC)
   
  1. DI or hiFace
 hiFace needs windows or Mac. Therefore I choose my subPC system.
 The sound is much clear,detailed,glossy and transparent compare to hiFace(Kernel streaming mode).
 Sound stage is more wide in DI. hiFace has mild empasis in treble and bass,but DI is neutral.
 I recommend to use DI .
   
  2.Ubuntu(my main PC for music)>FUN DAC>GCHA
 Ubuntu sound is much more detailed and clear compare to Windows sound.
 With DI , sound is more glossy and smooth. I prefer with DI. I can' hear difference with or without PSU.
   
  3.Ubuntu>SOtM mDAC-2v>GCHA
 mDAC-2v is very detailed and clear DAC. My main DAC for portable use.
 Through DI , sound change more relaxant.
 In this case , without DI is superior.
   
  4.Marantz SA8400>Audio-gd FUN
 With DI with PSU , both original rate and upsampling to 96kHz , I heard more glossy , detailed , clear and huge sound stage. My preference is upsampling to 96kHz usage.
   
  Digital Interface is good chose for thus midrange system.
   
  Thanks.
   
   
  Sorry bad English.


----------



## punk_guy182

Thats something I haven't noticed at all with the DI. I'm not hearing this glossy sound or glare as Currawong and others have put it. Maybe my ears aren't that sensitive or maybe more burning is required before I start noticing it.
  I do find that there is a black background but it isn't as obvious as when I first tried the Phoenix HeadAmp. I find that the DI lays the music on a linear horizontal stage while still letting some sounds go forward when they have to. This device let's the music flow as natural as possible and as it should be.
   
  I listened to some Classical music last night (i.e. Wagner, Bach, Mozart, Philip Glass) and I was delighted on the level of details provided by the unit but also all the instruments and sounds were playing as they should at the right place and in a coherent manner.


----------



## haloxt

Glossy has two different definitions, one meaning more lustrous in a good way, another meaning a false appearance of luster, "glossed over". I think most people mean the latter when using the word glossy in audio hehe, but maybe sulcata_geo means the first definition?
   
  Thanks for the comparison, synergy is always useful data.


----------



## FauDrei

Punky,
   
  Your RE-1 had default DSP-1 settings at the time of DI evaluation?


----------



## punk_guy182

Yes default settings and you call me something else than Punky.


----------



## ninjikiran

Are you sure your Ubuntu config is outputting bit-perfect?  Otherwise there shouldn't be a difference between OS unless you are using their mixers.
  Quote: 





sulcata_geo said:


> *First impression of Digital Interface*
> I 've received DI(versionA) with PSU,12th Aug. and done burn-in over 100hours.
> 
> I used Digital Interface in several way
> ...


----------



## FauDrei

punk_guy182 said:


> Yes default settings and you call me something else than Punky.


 

 Sorry. No offense intended.


----------



## punk_guy182

Hehe no problemo. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Have you tried the DI and are you using the RE-1 with its default settings? I was told by Pricklely Peete and others at the RE-1 thread that it sounded best in default.


----------



## FauDrei

I don't have DI yet. I'm negotiating for a B version with I2S out. We'll see...
   
  As for DSP-1... there are quite a few interesting PLL/dithering/stopband attenuation settings... at least with LiFePO4 HiFace.
   
  F.e. try PLL off and Dithering off. If you are not happy with soundstage depth of this setting, try lowering the stopband attenuation. I'm quite interested if the perceived changes are the same with DI as with modded HiFace.


----------



## shadowlord

so you can use WASAPI, KS and DS with the DI ? right ?


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote: 





shadowlord said:


> so you can use WASAPI, KS and DS with the DI ? right ?


 


 I'm having problems with WASAPI in Foobar2000. The music playback is in speed mode.


----------



## volume

Quote: 





shadowlord said:


> so you can use WASAPI, KS and DS with the DI ? right ?


 


 I'am using WASAPI witheout any problems.


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> Thats something I haven't noticed at all with the DI. I'm not hearing this glossy sound or glare as Currawong and others have put it.


 

 You're not hearing it because it's in the music I was listening to at the time.  There is something wrong with the recording or maybe digital mastering of Take Out that bugs me.  The piano sounds wrong regardless of what I'm using.  It was just more apparently annoying with a less suitable digital cable.
  
  Quote: 





sulcata_geo said:


> Sorry bad English.


 

 If you're ever in Fukuoka, come and say hi.  We can chat with your bad English and my bad Japanese.


----------



## sulcata_geo

I mean lustrous in a good way.
   
  Thanks.
  Quote: 





haloxt said:


> Glossy has two different definitions, one meaning more lustrous in a good way, another meaning a false appearance of luster, "glossed over". I think most people mean the latter when using the word glossy in audio hehe, but maybe sulcata_geo means the first definition?
> 
> Thanks for the comparison, synergy is always useful data.


----------



## sulcata_geo

I've used ALSA and low latency mode. I don't know this setting is bit-perfect or not.
  But for me , Ubunts sound superior to Windows.
  
  Quote: 





ninjikiran said:


> Are you sure your Ubuntu config is outputting bit-perfect?  Otherwise there shouldn't be a difference between OS unless you are using their mixers.


----------



## sulcata_geo

Thanks
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





currawong said:


> If you're ever in Fukuoka, come and say hi.  We can chat with your bad English and my bad Japanese.


----------



## sulcata_geo

no-upsampling : DIP6=1 ,
  upsampling : DIP6=0 >DIP3=0/DIP4=0 : 192kHz
                          DIP6=0 >DIP3=0/DIP4=1 : 96kHz                                     

  
  Quote: 





audio bling said:


> ​
> 
> The way I understand it is that the default setting is:
> No upsampling (DIP3=OFF=1) and output is S/PDIF (DIP4=OFF=1)
> ...


----------



## Audio Bling

[size=10pt]sulcata_geo,[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]Yes, I can see you are far more observant than I. I didn’t see/take notice of the markings on the PCB. Hence, my identification of DIP numbers was wrong.[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]Thanks.[/size]


----------



## GWorlDofSPACE

Today I build a very simple (lm1086) linear stabilized power supply and finally the a little bit for my taste aggressive sound signature changed to more relaxed more analogue like but whit good detail signature and dynamics. I also noticed the black background is little big darker.
  So I recommend to everyone to test also whit external PSU, it makes the difference.
  I am listening in linux whit alsa bit perfect! I have a NOS DAC !


----------



## bridge8989

still no full review yet? :/ guess this thing sucked.


----------



## JulioCat2

It looked very good on paper but until now the reviewers don't seem really convinced, i guess i'll wait for the M2tech Evo.


----------



## vrln

Another one wondering about the reviews here... Especially now with the NFB-1 release coming soon, the performance level of the Digital Interface can be critical for many people since it doesn´t have an USB-input (there´s an offer for 40 dollars off the DI if bought with the latest Kingwa DAC). The HiFace is out of the question here because I use Linux.


----------



## wushuliu

But I only think one review drew a comparison w/ the competition, in this case the Hiface. So it's the reviews themselves that are lacking, not the product, as far as what most are waiting for to draw a conclusion. Did any samples actually go out to people who have the setup and experience (with different converters) to do a thorough review?


----------



## tim3320070

Yeah, you're right it sucks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  What an ignorant thing to say. There have been several impressions so far, all good.


----------



## wushuliu

?
   
  You talkin' to me?
  
  Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> Yeah, you're right it sucks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## volume

A review ,I'am sure most of you are waiting for it.
   
  I felt would be able to do one this weekend, nothing so far that can drive me to right one.


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





wushuliu said:


> ?
> 
> You talkin' to me?


 
  No, Bridge 8989.
  Have people read this thread- 3-4 have commented positively. You know, this is a digital converter, not a DAC or an amp and it's not like there are going to be revelations as to it's "sound".


----------



## leeperry

tim3320070 said:


> this is a digital converter, not a DAC or an amp and it's not like there are going to be revelations as to its "sound".


 
   
  Most ppl will disagree on this point


----------



## tim3320070

My point being is that it's subtle at best.


----------



## Currawong

For me at least, it's a tweak, along with power (noise) filtering, all of which make subtle improvements that add up to a nice increase in my listening enjoyment.  They are things to get when you already have a serious rig and want the icing on the cake for it.


----------



## JulienM

Recently I ordered a DAC Reference 5 with DSP and was really impressed by the presentation it gave me. I was especially impressed by its USB input. I had 2 BNC hiFaces (one regular, and the other battery powered) here at home used with a mac mini. I felt that the RE5 USB input sounded more transparent and revealing than any of the hiFaces. That was not a subtle difference. So based on that experience, my educated guess is that the DI will at least equal what I have now, which is excellent.
   
  I intend to write a review at some point here about the Audio GD DI (I have one on order) when I get it and it's fully broken in.
   
  J


----------



## seaninbrisbane

The main reason I've ordered one is I have hi-res files stored on my MacBook Pro. I had a look at the HiFace and whilst most reviews are good I just didn't want a component that looked like a cheap USB memory stick - it just looks so vulnerable. Though, I'll be honest and say that I probably couldn't tell the difference between a good usb converter and a bad one.


----------



## volume

Quote: 





julienm said:


> Recently I ordered a DAC Reference 5 with DSP and was really impressed by the presentation it gave me. I was especially impressed by its USB input. I had 2 BNC hiFaces (one regular, and the other battery powered) here at home used with a mac mini. I felt that the RE5 USB input sounded more transparent and revealing than any of the hiFaces. That was not a subtle difference. So based on that experience, my educated guess is that the DI will at least equal what I have now, which is excellent.
> 
> I intend to write a review at some point here about the Audio GD DI (I have one on order) when I get it and it's fully broken in.
> 
> J


 


 That is right, the usb interface in the DACs with the tenor chip is very nice, hard to differentiate between direct USB and the DI


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Quote: 





rhythmic_impulse said:


> I received my DI version A unit without the power supply yesterday. I think there's possibibly a problem with my Windows XP USB set-up as the moment I put in the DI, the detection routine goes on well and it appears  under Hardware devices as DigiHub Audio USB. After that, I install the USB ASIO program. Unfortunately, playing back through the USB ASIO caused stutters and distortions. After removing the USB ASIO and reinserting the DI, Windows started asks for the driver files and I am unable to have the system install the DI as a plug and play unit anymore. Windows Hardware device list it as DigiHub Audio but with a yellow exclamation mark saying something is wrong with the hardware. On the other hand, plugging the unit into MAC OS X on the same machine, everything is detected and the DI is running up and well. So I think the issue is with my Windows USB set-up. At this moment, I can't try out how it sounds in Windows with USB output to the DACs.
> 
> Nevertheless, I wanted to know to know how well the DI handle Coax signal from another output. I tried the Coax output from the Prodigy HD2 soundcard into the DI and then via Coax to the FUN. The connections are with Canare LV-61s cables.
> 
> ...


 
  I still haven't sorted out my Windows USB problems, but for now I am using the DI USB powered.
   
  I have managed about 120 hours of burn-in to date on both the WM8741 and the DI.  I switched to the BNC connector on the DI and used a Canare LV-61s BNC to RCA cable to the FUN.
   
  The increase in resolution is quite good. I can hear a more expansive soundstage, clearer space between instruments, increased transparency and even truer timbres especially from violins and pianos. Sound signature remains very neutral (Much more so than than the FUN with the AD1852 chip). IMHO, the DI and the FUN with the WM8741 has great synergy together. Even though the unit is still burning in, I think I will purchase this (I'm one of the testers) along with the Power Supply unit.
  
  As it is now, the combination is already several levels better than the FUN when it originally appears.


----------



## Nada

Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> I'm having problems with WASAPI in Foobar2000. The music playback is in speed mode.


 

 Try decreasing the buffer length in Foobar. I know that seems counter-intuitive but just reduce it below say 300ms and then go lower
   
 Limitations of this component http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Foobar2000:Components_0.9/foo_out_wasapi 
 With certain soundcards you might need to fiddle with output buffer length in output preferences before getting acceptable results - with certain buffer lengths, playback may fail to start entirely or get stuck after a few seconds. USB audio devices typically require low buffer lengths to operate properly


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote: 





nada said:


> Try decreasing the buffer length in Foobar. I know that seems counter-intuitive but just reduce it below say 300ms and then go lower


 
  Ok I have it at 500ms and it works well now. Thanks.


----------



## haloxt

Can testers try upsampling? I can't quite put my finger on the differences I think I hear from upsampling from 44khz to 48khz on my pmd-100 pcm1704 dac. I heard (but don't know) that when resampling to very close frequencies like 44 to 48khz, mistakes are more likely to happen than resampling between, say, 44 to 96khz.
   
  Hehe I've been like patrick82... listening to the same song 12 hours a day, every day of the week, trying to figure this out . Using this song because the bass in it seems particularly to change going between no resampling and 48khz, let me know if you want flac version, magnatune lets people share freely.


----------



## tim3320070

Well, I set mine to upsample to 96 (I did this with the Ref-3 as well). The differences are very minor- possibly more air to the sound. Subtle though (or placebo).


----------



## ninjikiran

Actually I would say there would probably be least error going from 44.1 ----> 88.2, or 48---->96 since I think it works best in multiples.  That is just an assumption, pretty sure someone more knowledgeable can correct that.


----------



## Currawong

Upsampling in my Reference 3 (essentially the same thing as the DI) makes such a small difference it's below the threshold I consider myself a reliable judge of the effect. I get the impression that the music is slightly smoother, however.


----------



## shogo33

Same, i've flicked the dip switches to enable upsampling to verify the difference.  The sound is slightly smoother and a little tighter for a better word.  This may be a placebo effect, so I dont think there is much improvement or improvement at all with upsampling enabled.  YMMV..


----------



## gooky

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> Well, I set mine to upsample to 96 (I did this with the Ref-3 as well). The differences are very minor- possibly more air to the sound. Subtle though (or placebo).


 

 I hear the same thing, so I'll verify your placebo.  Is the Digital Interface the same as the Ref 3?  Because it's a lot nicer looking.  I thought it was just for USB.  I don't like how they release so many overlapping products, it's like they are trying to make a quick buck.  Having said that, their pricing is very good


----------



## Currawong

The Ref 3 wasn't a regular product, it was a one-off kind-of-thing for some of their Chinese customers. We only found out about it when someone pointed it out on their Chinese forum.  The DI I'm willing to bet came from all the Hiface talk and someone suggesting he make one himself.  If Kingwa makes a heap of products, it's because people keep asking him to make stuff and he has already done most of the work, simply re-packaging his analogue amplification and power supply stages into different forms for whatever product. The rest has to do with him improving the design of the digital side of things.  He doesn't have to worry so much about the consumer side of the cycle as regular manufacturers do, as both on his forum and here people are interested.


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote: 





currawong said:


> The DI I'm willing to bet came from all the Hiface talk and someone suggesting he make one himself.  If Kingwa makes a heap of products, it's because people keep asking him to make stuff and he has already done most of the work, simply re-packaging his analogue amplification and power supply stages into different forms for whatever product.


 

 I'm the one who pushed him with others perhaps to release something similar to the hiface, but as good or better in terms of SQ.
  Right now, I'm trying to convince him to design something as good or better than CD7 Final. I think he should build a high quality source for audio file playback. The cd format is going to go away and more people are using FLACs or other lossless audio files to listen to music.


----------



## ccschua

dont u think kingwa is a prolific audio designer and manufacturer.
   
  Now it makes me wonder if he is directing the flow or users are directing the flow.


----------



## haloxt

Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> I'm the one who pushed him with others perhaps to release something similar to the hiface, but as good or better in terms of SQ.
> Right now, I'm trying to convince him to design something as good or better than CD7 Final. I think he should build a high quality source for audio file playback. The cd format is going to go away and more people are using FLACs or other lossless audio files to listen to music.


 
   
  I wonder if audio-gd has the knowledge or time to do the software for an audiophile hard drive based transport. Something possibly related is rockbox trying to make the software for an open source mp3 player using ARM architecture. The project is at a standstill right now, but if it is ever completed I can see it being adapted for use in a hard drive transport. Some of the completed rockbox mp3 player software might also be useful given some work, but it ought to be reprogrammed to also do all the things good cd players do, or what cmp/cplay does on windows.
   
  http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=6751.0


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> I wonder if audio-gd has the knowledge or time to do the software for an audiophile hard drive based transport. Something possibly related is rockbox trying to make the software for an open source mp3 player using ARM architecture.


 
  Kingwa did ask a friend software designer  to write such a program. The price quote was USD15K for WAV,Flac,APE,MP3 support and it was too expensive for him so he abandoned the project.


----------



## reiserFS

Sorry for asking this, but doesn't upsampling usually degrade audio quality?


----------



## vrln

It´s been a pretty long time now... Can someone who owns the Digital Interface and the HiFace give his/her view on if it´s just as good? Personally I´d be very satisfied with that level already, since my main draw is that it works in Linux without drivers.


----------



## shogo33

Quote: 





ccschua said:


> dont u think kingwa is a prolific audio designer and manufacturer.
> 
> Now it makes me wonder if he is directing the flow or users are directing the flow.


 

 Its a safe business strategy using consumers to drive the market segment for a niche product like the DI.  I think Kingwa truly has passion in his work and provides a good value alternative to the mass market rubbish that is out there for the equivalent dollar amount.


----------



## shogo33

Quote: 





vrln said:


> It´s been a pretty long time now... Can someone who owns the Digital Interface and the HiFace give his/her view on if it´s just as good?


 

 I've been busy of late and havent had the time to do long write ups just as yet due to work commitments.
   
  But the gist of things regarding the DI, i think its as good and better in some respects to over the hiface.  The sound is much more natural without emphasis on the upper mids and highs that my BNC hiface unit exibits..  But, whether or not you prefer that, thats entirely up to you. 
   
  But i havent had the chance to do detailed reviews yet and will aim to do so this weekend.


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> I'm the one who pushed him with others perhaps to release something similar to the hiface, but as good or better in terms of SQ.
> Right now, I'm trying to convince him to design something as good or better than CD7 Final. I think he should build a high quality source for audio file playback. The cd format is going to go away and more people are using FLACs or other lossless audio files to listen to music.


 

 Many people still like using CDs I've found. I have wondered occasionally if a Reference 3 with 24/96 USB, optical, coax and AES inputs, as well wouldn't be a good piece of kit. The Ref 3 outputs are of two types, the same as found in the CD-7 from memory: One ACSS digital, and one regular digital.  As far as I know, there is nothing like it in the market anywhere and nor have I see anything as featured as it before.


----------



## volume

We need more reviews I know, I will post one soon.


----------



## haloxt

Well the test DI's weren't meant for people to give reviews, they were meant to give audio-gd feedback. For me, the differences between transports and reclocking is harder to pinpoint than differences between dac's and amp's, so if no one wants to do a full review I don't blame them.


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





currawong said:


> Many people still like using CDs I've found. I have wondered occasionally if a Reference 3 with 24/96 USB, optical, coax and AES inputs, as well wouldn't be a good piece of kit. The Ref 3 outputs are of two types, the same as found in the CD-7 from memory: One ACSS digital, and one regular digital.  As far as I know, there is nothing like it in the market anywhere and nor have I see anything as featured as it before.


 

 Kingwa will send you a the Tenor USB input to replace the TI one but you need to send him the DSP1 chip for reprogramming.


----------



## volume

I have a question,I'am not very sure whether anyone can answer it or not,may sound stupid.
  Will give a shot anyway.
   
   
  I will explain my audio-rig chain then put in front the question.
   
   
_*FLAC--> foobar2000 using WASAPI -->USB --> audio gd Digital Interface using USB POWER  --> audio gd custom canare plug BNC BNC cable --> audio gd DAC19 DSP --> audio gd ACSS cable --> audio gd C-2 --> headphones*_
   
  I wanted to know ,would the jitter,digital signal or any other inteference or sound degradation would change if
   
  The music was streamed from a network share rather then from the local hard drive of the computer.


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





volume said:


> I have a question,I'am not very sure whether anyone can answer it or not,may sound stupid.
> Will give a shot anyway.
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It can be different, because you're using different "pieces" of your hardware.
  In my experience the wired network share (not wireless) sounded better because the ehernet protocol is lighter (in terms of CPU load) than the USB.
  Also it's a good practice to use different pipes for audio and data: usb dac with firewire drive or network drive for example. Using the internal drive is a poor choice, because the drive will always be spinning, heating the PC.
  You can find more info on the computeraudiophile forum.


----------



## Pacha

Quote: 





realmassy said:


> It can be different, because you're using different "pieces" of your hardware.
> In my experience the wired network share (not wireless) sounded better because the ehernet protocol is lighter (in terms of CPU load) than the USB.
> Also it's a good practice to use different pipes for audio and data: usb dac with firewire drive or network drive for example. Using the internal drive is a poor choice, because the drive will always be spinning, heating the PC.
> You can find more info on the computeraudiophile forum.


 


 Well, provided that your hard drive is always spinning if you use a desktop computer, or a laptop with Win Vista or 7 with indexing service activated by default, it's not making any difference. And reading lossless files from the hard drive is not generating as much hard drive heat as a defrag, it won't get a a lot hotter than just spinning with almost no accesses, plus new hard drives do not get so much hot and that it won't raise the whole PC case temperature a lot. MOSFETs, GPU, CPU, and chipset will generate the majority of the heat of the case, not the hard drive spinning and reading an audio file.


----------



## realmassy

I think everyone's scenario is different: my Mac mini is between the rack and the carpet, there's no much air to cool it down.
  In my case using a NAS lowered the temperature of about 3 Celsius degree, the fan is spinning slower, and this is a real benefit.
   
  But the greatest improvement has been installing a 30GB SSD for the OS: now the temperature of the drive is never over 40, the fan runs at 800rpm, almost inaudible. Access to iTunes library is definitely quicker.


----------



## regal

Quote: 





volume said:


> I have a question,I'am not very sure whether anyone can answer it or not,may sound stupid.
> Will give a shot anyway.
> 
> 
> ...


 


 No, No, and No  don't get cast under any spells by the computer audio warlocks.  The best thing you can do is max out on Ram andthen not worry about skipps and dropouts.


----------



## volume

Quote: 





regal said:


> No, No, and No  don't get cast under any spells by the computer audio warlocks.  The best thing you can do is max out on Ram andthen not worry about skipps and dropouts.


 

 I have 4GB RAM,the skips and dropouts are beacuase my NAS is accessed wirelessly by the laptop,would this affect sound in any given way.


----------



## regal

Quote: 





volume said:


> I have 4GB RAM,the skips and dropouts are beacuase my NAS is accessed wirelessly by the laptop,would this affect sound in any given way.


 

 If you have skips,  odds are you have little milliseconds skips/dropout that are affecting the sound.  So you have a wireless USB hub?  IS it rated for  *480* Mbit/s ?


----------



## volume

Quote: 





regal said:


> If you have skips,  odds are you have little milliseconds skips/dropout that are affecting the sound.  So you have a wireless USB hub?  IS it rated for  *480* Mbit/s ?


 


 I'am using a a Cisco Wireless Access Point, rated at 54MBps


----------



## regal

Quote: 





volume said:


> I'am using a a Cisco Wireless Access Point, rated at 54MBps


 

 Seems a little low.  But no guarantees if you upgrade we are charting new territory.


----------



## volume

The drop outs are probably 1 or 2 per song, nothing very concerning.
   
  Would it be degrading my sound by introducing jitter.


----------



## volume

There is another thing I noticed, the song length bar becomes very jittery and keeps moving back and forth as compared to smoothly moving forward, the music does not get affected, what do I make of it.


----------



## regal

Quote: 





volume said:


> The drop outs are probably 1 or 2 per song, nothing very concerning.
> 
> Would it be degrading my sound by introducing jitter.


 


 Not jitter but really small dropouts that are not directly audible in themselves but degrade the SQ as a dullness.  Best to have no dropouts ever to guarantee best SQ from a computer.


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





volume said:


> There is another thing I noticed, the song length bar becomes very jittery and keeps moving back and forth as compared to smoothly moving forward, the music does not get affected, what do I make of it.


 
  Which buffer size have you set on Foobar?
  Set it below 250ms: I used to have the same issue on my windows laptop.


----------



## seaninbrisbane

FYI: Seems to be a bit of a back-log of orders for the new interface; ordered mine on 15th August, just been told it wont be sent out until next Tuesday.


----------



## Pacha

Quote: 





volume said:


> I'am using a a Cisco Wireless Access Point, rated at 54MBps


 


 54 Mb/s and not 54 MB/s. Bits and not Bytes (8 bits). Plus 54 is theorical, it usually don't go over 11Mb/s if you are next to it for 802.11g and 6Mb/s for 802.11b rated at 11 Mb/s.
   
  Couldn't you go wired, even CPL instead of Wi-Fi?


----------



## volume

Quote: 





realmassy said:


> Which buffer size have you set on Foobar?
> Set it below 250ms: I used to have the same issue on my windows laptop.


 


 I don't feel the buffer size should affect,because when I play music directly from my laptops hard drive there is no problem,I may be wrong on the buffer size opinion.

  
  Quote: 





pacha said:


> 54 Mb/s and not 54 MB/s. Bits and not Bytes (8 bits). Plus 54 is theorical, it usually don't go over 11Mb/s if you are next to it for 802.11g and 6Mb/s for 802.11b rated at 11 Mb/s.
> 
> Couldn't you go wired, even CPL instead of Wi-Fi?


 


 I could not be wired,because my network is setup in the living room and my audio rig is in the bedroom.


----------



## JulioCat2

Quote: 





volume said:


> I could not be wired,because my network is setup in the living room and my audio rig is in the bedroom.


 

 In settings in foobar goto Advanced-PlayBack-Full File buffering    and put some big number there, that way foobar will upload all the file to memory before playing so there will be no chance of a network slowdown in the middle of a song, but the files will not start playing inmediatly and the gapless disc will have cuts at the begining of each track.


----------



## volume

Quote: 





juliocat2 said:


> In settings in foobar goto Advanced-PlayBack-Full File buffering    and put some big number there, that way foobar will upload all the file to memory before playing so there will be no chance of a network slowdown in the middle of a song, but the files will not start playing inmediatly and the gapless disc will have cuts at the begining of each track.


 


 Thanks, I did this, will advise if it works.


----------



## vrln

Interesting tip! I didn´t know one could do this in Foobar. Maybe this helps vs. hard drive noise too? Should be better to load the file from RAM instead of streaming from the HD... I have no wireless setup, but just enabled it


----------



## Pacha

Quote: 





volume said:


> I could not be wired,because my network is setup in the living room and my audio rig is in the bedroom.


 

  
  You can fix this by going with PLC then, it should be more stable than Wi-Fi. But you may need to use some filtering as it will blend with power signals.


----------



## volume

That is right, filtering would cost more, and I haven't heard much about PLC being used practically.Expensive also.


----------



## Trapper32

After listening to the DI for a few weeks and now having over 200 hours on the unit I can make some early impressions.
   
  My setup is as follows   PC(vista)/WASAPI/foobar2000> USB>DI>DAC-19 DSP>C2>K702
   
  Two things stand out immediately... The soundstage is much wider and detail retrieval is much enhanced.  I have been very happy with the DAC 19 but the DI adds just that extra bit of detail and nuances to the sound that I find particularly addictive.  It has added that extra degree of "being there" on stage or in the studio that i find so enjoyable.  The music just seems more organic to me...I guess more musical, more natural.  Being a guitar player, I pay particular attention to guitar parts, and with the DI its like the band just put new strings on.  Notes are more rounded, holographic, with more harmonics being heard.  I suspect that this is due to the increased transparency and detail.    While the soundstage is much wider I find that it is not as deep as without the DI but the sound is so engrossing its a small trade off IMO.  While I enjoyed the DAC-19 by itself, the DI does definitely take it up a notch in listening enjoyment.  I am still experimenting with all the combinations of Sox resampler, and the two DSP  and different cables.  I found a not so subtle difference in using the BNC vs RCA out on the DI.  All in all I am more than pleased with the DI.


----------



## FauDrei

Thanks for your comments Trapper32.
   
  Can you tell us about your previous reference transport? DAC-19DSP USB input?


----------



## Trapper32

I only have a stock HiFace not the modded one but I find the DI preferable being that the DI seems more natural and smooth with more detail.  Prior to that I used the coax out of my x-fi.   I found the usb straight into the DAC 19 not that great but now with the DI its my preferred method.  I am enjoying my time listening to the music through the USB DI so much that I have not had much time nor inclination to try the coax into the DI beyond a few minutes. I am looking forward to SlimA s observations to see how the DI compares to the modded version .


----------



## Pacha

Very interesting. I have jkeny modded HiFace with DAC19DSP and C2 and it sounds really really good. I'm also impatient about slim.a's review of the DI. This may be a possible upgrade for me if it is better.


----------



## Pacha

Quote: 





volume said:


> That is right, filtering would cost more, and I haven't heard much about PLC being used practically.Expensive also.


 

 Well, I already built some systems using PLC here in France and I had no trouble getting it working, it is stable and efficient with the latest technologies, for data at least. But as a way to transport Audio signal, as Wi-Fi is, it may not be a very good solution neither, going wired on reasonable distances ends to be the best solution.


----------



## shogo33

Ok, here goes after testing the DI + PSU after nearly 2 weeks.  My impressions so far:
   
  USB Testing Equipment:

 
  Dell Studio XPS 16 (Battery powered), Foobar 2K (Wasapi & DS drivers via Tenor - SPDIF), Win7 32bit, Hiface BNC Stock USB-SPDIF converter
   
   
  COAX Testing Equipment:

 
  Audio GD Dac 3SE - Blue Jeans Cables (BNC & RCA) - Oppo BDP83SE - Weston Acoustics Tempest (KT66, 6SN7, 6SL7) - Creation Audio Back Loaded Horn (Decware DFR8)
   
   
  USB Test Impressions

 
  I've had nearly 2 month's worth of listening experience using the HiFace as that was my unit prior to getting the DI.  In my system, the HiFace has a smaller soundstage and exhibited 'peaks' within the upper mid's and highs to some extent.  This didnt bother me too much as I've used the Hiface to supplement my music listening when i'm not using my Oppo as a transport (primary).  When I got the DI + PSU, i didnt expect much from it and kept my expectations neutral thinking that it will probably be like the HiFace.
   
  Was I wrong.  The DI + PSU combo delivered a much 'wider' soundstage and I could immediately pick that up.  The sound was far more natural sounding, so the peaks in the upper mids and highs were no longer there.  Bass was much more tighter but not by a significant margin.  So I was happy with the unit.  I listened to this combo for a good couple of days, going back and forth with the Hiface to confirm that this wasnt just a placebo effect.  I also got my wife to listen in a blind test and to pick out which song sounded better.  Women are much more sensitive to high freq's so her preferences veered towards the demo using the DI + PSU.
   
  On the second week, i did try some upsampling tests, but didnt feel that it was much more noticable on my system.  The wav files sampled at 44.1khz sounded 'as good' as the 96khz upsampled output.  There were times when i did perceive some more airiness to the sound, but when i did a blind test with my wife again, she couldnt pick up a difference at all.  So, i'll leave this one as a YMMV scenario.
   
   
  Using the Oppo as a transport Impressions

 
  I was more keen to see if the DI + PSU combo could make a difference here.  I couldnt tell much of a difference when using it on COAX mode.  I believe that the Oppo was a good low jitter source to begin with and using the DI + PSU in conjunction with the Oppo, didnt produce much of a difference.  So i pulled out my old Panasonic BD30 bluray player and used the coax digital out as a test.  I noticed a marginal improvement with the sound, with a slightly wider soundstage and cleaner sound.  Before using the DI+PSU with the BD30, the sound was warm but it sounded dull and details were lost in the music. I'm not overly convinced that the DI+PSU was much of an upgrade to the sound.  Maybe YMMV here, but not so on my system.  Tried upsampling here and didnt notice much improvement either.
   
  Conclusion:

 
  Well, will i keep the unit?  Certainly would and for the appropriate reasons that it is a step up (for me anyways) from the Hiface.  Do i think that it bridges the gap to bringing me closer to a A-GD CD7FV cd player? I was hoping it would since it uses the same DSP unit but without a digital filter, but from the impressions from user reviews is that it so much more than just the DSP unit itself and to such high expectations would be silly.
   
  ** Also, i did try using it without the PSU with my usb testing, and didnt notice much difference there either.  In some instances it 'seemed' to make a difference, and on the next day, i couldnt tell if it did.  Call this 'unconclusive' or placebo.
  Kingwa did mention that it may offer an improvement, but when using it with a cd/dvd transport, its required.
   
   
  But since I was planning to build a music server later on this year, this unit will come in handy and purely for a solid built unit, better sounding unit, I'm keeping it.
   
  Kingwa, the cheque is in the mail...


----------



## Currawong

shogo33: That's a very good, well-balanced write-up.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I need to once more set up a Pop Pulse vs. DI test to see what improvement I get with USB, rather than with my CD player.  Unfortunately I don't have another DAC handy to experiment with. It would have been interesting to see what effect it has on the Northstar I once owned, or my friend's Benchmark.


----------



## shogo33

Cheers mate.
   
  My aim was to be fair as possible.  The Hiface is good, but the DI was better.  I'm curious to know from Punk's review as he has both the DI and the battery modded Hiface. 
   
  As both of them work out to be around $200, the DI is a better value, better built product.  The advantage that the Hiface has is portability.


----------



## Audio Bling

Quote: 





shogo33 said:


> [..]
> As both of them work out to be around $200 [..]


 
   
  "Them" as in DI and _stock_ Hiface. The _battery modded_ Hiface costs much more.


----------



## shogo33

Quote: 





audio bling said:


> "Them" as in DI and _stock_ Hiface. The _battery modded_ Hiface costs much more.


 

 Yep.  I was refering to the DI and Stock Hiface as pointed out.


----------



## tim3320070

The DI w/o PSU is portable, just not as portable as the tiny HiFace.


----------



## punk_guy182

I stated earlier that he DI had a more natural sound. There is more cohesion to the music, the sounds and instruments fit in their right places. The DI still has some great instrument separation but the music still feels as whole  Contrary to the hiface jkeny mod the highs and perhaps upper mids are not overemphasized. Also, in terms of 2d soundstage, I find it perhaps a little wider with the DI but the hiface jkeny mod offers probably more depth but maybe that's because some frequencies are put more forward than others.
  Also, I did notice with the DI that the very low frequencies (Bass) were considerably more present after more than a week of full use. I actually like a lot better the DI with the bass impact I get when I play my Wu-Tang tracks. However, perhaps the DI offers a darker sound than the hiface jkeny mod does. I'm wondering if that thick black background that we were talking about with the DI doesn't get in the way of the music that comes to your ears.


----------



## Bojamijams

So whats the consensus on the Power Supply? Worth the $75?


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote: 





bojamijams said:


> So whats the consensus on the Power Supply? Worth the $75?


 
  If you have a cheap old laptop or desktop computer, than I think the PSU would be necessary. Other than that, I wouldn't use it unless you intended on using the DI with another transport.


----------



## leeperry

gotta love how the hiface was "teh best evar <3, your eyes will pop out because of its enhanced husky spaciounesss" 6 months ago, and now any serious Tenor-based interface seems to kill it. FOTM is a nasty disease


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> gotta love how the hiface was "teh best evar <3, your eyes will pop out because of its enhanced husky spaciounesss" 6 months ago, and now any serious Tenor-based interface seems to kill it. FOTM is a nasty disease


 

 New-itis....its a common disease among those in the Audio hobby.
   
  The next-new-thing is almost certain to blow the doors off the last-old-thing.
   
  But on the other hand, this new-thing has a hefty power supply and seems to be fine tuned to deliver the goods...75ohm resistors for true BNC connections, Class-A regulated power supply, Solen caps, Pre-buffered RAM module which should allow for precise reclocking.  Maybe the next-new-thing has some really good new ideas and implementations.
   
  I trust your opinion, why don't you buy one and test it for us....


----------



## lag0a

I too was surprised when people said you could get better spdif (digital out) sound quality out of something as compact as a stock hiface with asychrounous(however you spell it) USB clock but then as always people started modifying/disassembling it in different parts like a separate PSU and maybe make it bigger like the EVO and now DI with more interfaces and connectors. Basically the same thing applied to DACs and AMPs I think. The thing that bothers me is it seems like it is something that is small enougn and should be built into a DAC instead of between a transport(PC) and a source(DAC). I don't know how many separate PSUs you need in your chain of headphone system to avoid EMI/RF or to isolate parts. Who knows. The next big thing could be isolating the hard drive that plays your music files from the motherboard and have its own PSU. Things can get really funny in the audiophile world.


----------



## punk_guy182

I think that you could very well integrate the DI in high end Audio-GD DACs. The DSP3 in the DI is the same hardware component as the DSP1 but with upgraded software.
  I think that Audio-GD is better off from a business side point of view of selling their DI separately.


----------



## haloxt

It's interesting that Kingwa thinks the DI with USB sounds better than the way he implements USB inside of his dac's. I can only speculate as to why it may be the case.
   
  Let's assume putting everything inside the DI into a dac and connecting I2S sounds just as good or better than an external DI, then the drawback would be less convenient to move the DI around as it would be inside the dac. Having different components in different boxes gives the flexibility to move things in and out of your audio chain and isolating components' emf/rfi and vibration, at the expense of needing cables that may degrade sound quality and being more expensive with so many separate boxes.
   
  We may see DI inside dac's in the future, but it will always have the drawback of less flexibility.
   
  Something I do find really curious is DSP3 in the DI and DSP1 in a dac . Could this be a bit of redundancy? Then again having separate components and overbuilt psu's is the epitome of redundancy when tiny mp3 players weighing 1/1000 as much produce sound as well.


----------



## tim3320070

Surely his internal USB inputs don't have near the hardware that the DI has, correct? Of course the DI would be better sounding. And not including it inside DAC's gives him another item to sell. As he said to me once "I am a businessman too".


----------



## Nada

Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> I stated earlier that he DI had a more natural sound. There is more cohesion to the music, the sounds and instruments fit in their right places. The DI still has some great instrument separation but the music still feels as whole  Contrary to the hiface jkeny mod the highs and perhaps upper mids are not overemphasized. Also, in terms of 2d soundstage, I find it perhaps a little wider with the DI but the hiface jkeny mod offers probably more depth but maybe that's because some frequencies are put more forward than others.
> Also, I did notice with the DI that the very low frequencies (Bass) were considerably more present after more than a week of full use. I actually like a lot better the DI with the bass impact I get when I play my Wu-Tang tracks. However, perhaps the DI offers a darker sound than the hiface jkeny mod does. I'm wondering if that thick black background that we were talking about with the DI doesn't get in the way of the music that comes to your ears.


 

 Thanks for the great write up. Im left wondering about your last comment - any updates?
   
  Quote: 





haloxt said:


> Then again having separate components and overbuilt psu's is the epitome of redundancy when tiny mp3 players weighing 1/1000 as much produce sound as well.


 

 Does this mean youve found an mp3 player that has the same sound quality? If so which model?


----------



## haloxt

No, just wondering if having multiple altera cyclone chips reclocking is redundant. Some mp3 players do sound great and are convenient, but if we're talking only sound quality I do lean towards less all-in-one boxes .


----------



## Nada

I do wonder what the DI will do to the sound quality for the Audio-gd DAC's with USB input into the DSP-1, like the RE-5 and RE-7?
  This combo seems to be largely what the DI is modelled on with some extra nice additions.
  So far there are favourable reports for the DI with the DAC's without the DSP-1 or without USB.
  Are there any users  who have tried the DI with the USB into DSP-1 DAC's and can report back please?


----------



## volume

Quote: 





nada said:


> I do wonder what the DI will do to the sound quality for the Audio-gd DAC's with USB input into the DSP-1, like the RE-5 and RE-7?
> This combo seems to be largely what the DI is modelled on with some extra nice additions.
> So far there are favourable reports for the DI with the DAC's without the DSP-1 or without USB.
> Are there any users  who have tried the DI with the USB into DSP-1 DAC's and can report back please?


 


 I have tried what you want to know, the verdict is simple.
   
  The background is undeniably darker compared to using USB.The sound is very much similar on both the interfaces,very hard to find a difference.
   
  I will audition again sometime and get back with more results.


----------



## vrln

I asked Kingwa about that (with the REF5 DSP version) and he said the DI wins over the built-in USB without contest.


----------



## rpgmasterk

Well, I write it now after 2weeks i used.
  My last reply, I told D/I is better than Musiland 01USD and Hiface, and now I can say absolutely. D/I is better than those old ones.
   
  Someone can feel it's sound stage is little dark, even that's true or not, anyone can't disagree D/I(with PSU) has more musical flavor and natural wide stage.
   
  Yes, its' very musical opponent.
   
  If you think it's just a placebo effect, well, i can't agree that cuz i tested it with my 5 friends in Seoul, Kimhae, and Pusan.
   
  After have 200 hours burn-in time. i traveled almost 1 week to test it with friends and they have same conclusion. All of those told me D/I is better one and stock Hiface or 01USD.
   
  but one of my korean friends is making new i2s usb interface with tas1020 and we didn't tested with those new machine using i2s only.
   
  Now I'll send money to KingWa. After my friend make his own new DDC, i'll return to compare this D/I and my friends one. Surely, D/I is cheaper than that, but... most of audio user don't use i2s DAC for music. it will be just for test.
  Sincerly guys.


----------



## rpgmasterk

I forgot writing my audio system.
  Now my audio system has a small change.
  I;m using now these.

 
  PC-> Audio-Gd Digital Interface -> Musiland SRC10 -> Musiland MD10 -> Cyrus PreVs2 -> Cyrus Smart PowerAmp -> Proac 1sc


----------



## Nada

Quote: 





rpgmasterk said:


> one of my korean friends is making new i2s usb interface with tas1020 ..... After my friend make his own new DDC, i'll return to compare this D/I and my friends one.


 

 I will be very interested to find out how the I2S USB interface sounds compared to the DI.


----------



## rpgmasterk

There is some problem...now he's pre-ordering that... and maybe if i order it, i can receive after 9/18 but I have no i2s Dac!  i wanna to ask him to tune my src10 and md10 to use i2s.


----------



## volume

Quote: 





juliocat2 said:


> In settings in foobar goto Advanced-PlayBack-Full File buffering    and put some big number there, that way foobar will upload all the file to memory before playing so there will be no chance of a network slowdown in the middle of a song, but the files will not start playing inmediatly and the gapless disc will have cuts at the begining of each track.


 


 I will have to say, this was one awesome fix, thanks  mate, appreciate your help.
   
  Worked as I wanted.


----------



## Bojamijams

Have there been comparisons to the jkenny hiface with the DI+PSU that I Missed here?


----------



## vrln

As far as I know there haven´t... I could have missed it though. There have been plenty of comments comparing to the stock HiFace, and the general consensus seems to be it outperforms it. I´m also interested if someone could do a direct comparison to the modded one, with and without the power supply. Kingwa actually told me in a mail that if you use the USB port there is no need for the additional PSU so it would be interesting to see if others have the same experience.


----------



## shogo33

There wasnt much difference in SQ with/without the external psu when using the DI in USB mode.  But if u're planning to use the DI with a coax input, then u do need an external psu to power the DI such as a cd/dvd transport.


----------



## JulioCat2

Just a Question, Does the DI benefit from a USB-ISolator? or it's Galvanically Isolated already??


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

I opened up my DI unit today thinking of trying the upsampling features. It was then I noticed that there are no four screws that holds the DSP-3 to the mainboard, as seen in the DI pictures on the DI webpage. On my unit, it looks like as though it's just being held in place by the connectors on the DSP. Did anyone of the testers noticed this on their units? Or is my unit an isolated case among the testers? Not sure if this has any effect at all on the circuitry ie grounding etc.


----------



## JulienM

vrln said:


> As far as I know there haven´t... I could have missed it though. There have been plenty of comments comparing to the stock HiFace, and the general consensus seems to be it outperforms it. I´m also interested if someone could do a direct comparison to the modded one, with and without the power supply. Kingwa actually told me in a mail that if you use the USB port there is no need for the additional PSU so it would be interesting to see if others have the same experience.







 For what it's worth, a few months ago I had 2 BNC hiFaces, one stock and the other modded. I felt the difference between them was minimal, and I didn't always preferred the battery powered one. But I felt the USB input on my RE5DSP was superior to either hiFace, and not by a small margin. I have a DI on order, I should be able to give more feedback in a few weeks.

 J


----------



## vrln

I just got my DI (without the power supply) today... Can´t comment on the sound yet as my new DAC isn´t here yet, but the build quality impresses me. It´s very solid, larger than I would have expected. Stylish little box!


----------



## volume

Quote: 





vrln said:


> I just got my DI (without the power supply) today... Can´t comment on the sound yet as my new DAC isn´t here yet, but the build quality impresses me. It´s very solid, larger than I would have expected. Stylish little box!


 


 box of chocolates mate.


----------



## Torero

Excuse my ignorance.But, Is the audio-gd is asyncronous usb interface? Is it much better than the hiface? Vs Evo?


----------



## Dynobot

Anyone try it with LINUX????
   
  If it uses the Tenor USB then it should work because I already tested the Tenor with Linux....24/96.


----------



## Currawong

Torero: You need to search this thread (see the link above) for "Hiface" or just go back, page by page, until you find the reviews.


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





torero said:


> Excuse my ignorance.But, Is the audio-gd is asyncronous usb interface? Is it much better than the hiface? Vs Evo?


 

 I doubt if it is asyncronous because it does not include a driver.  Async needs a special driver to be installed on the computer in order to do the async operations.


----------



## shogo33

Ok, some interesting update to the DI + PSU combo. 
   
   
  I took these units over to a friends place as he was keen to try it out.  He has better speakers than mine and it would be good to hear what the differences are, if any, exist.
  Without re-jigging his setup, i thought it would be fair if i took my stuff over for a listen and to use his speakers as the difference to these variables.
   
  Setup: (COAX input)
  Osborn Grand Epitome Speakers (Focal drivers and berylium tweeters), Weston Acoustics Tempest, DI + PSU, Oppo BDP83 SE, BlueJeans 75ohm BNC, RCA cables
   
  Observations:

 
  As expected, the sound was good, noticed a darker background, and smooth sounds across the freq range.  Bass was very good, potent, tight, without feeling loose or flabby.  Probably attributed to the passive bass drivers seperate enclosures.t
  Did the test without the DI+PSU, and it was pretty much the same.  We called in his wife to see if she could pick a difference, but she said they sounded very similar, so no conclusion there.
   
   
  Setup: (USB input)
  Dell Studio XPS 16 Laptop,Osborn Grand Epitome Speakers (Focal drivers and berylium tweeters), Weston Acoustics Tempest, DI + PSU,BlueJeans 75ohm BNC, Stock A-GD supplied USB cable.
   
  Observations:

 
  Ok, this is where i was gobsmacked.  The PSU does make a difference.  I guess with a higher quality speaker, the resolution was better and we were using standard 44.1khz WAV files off Foobar ripped lossless from a cd.
  The noticable improvements were in the bass regions, more definition and depth, much smoother midrange and highs and more natural sounding.
   
  We tested it without the PSU and used the laptops USB power, the sound was 'thinner', much more forward sounding, and the midrange and highs were more brittle and forward.
  We thought it could be a placebo effect, but did the swap and asked his wife.  And she picked the sound from the DI+PSU was noticably better.
   
  After 4 hrs of testing, we can simply say that an external PSU does make a difference powering the DI.  YMMV
   
  cheers


----------



## leeperry

shogo33 said:


> an external PSU does make a difference


 

 breaking news 
   
  for some reason , manufacturers always tell the opposite to their customers...maybe they're afraid of having customers feeling cheated.


----------



## Nada

Quote: 





shogo33 said:


> .......some interesting update to the DI + PSU combo.....


 
                thanks for sharing - thats _extremely_ interesting


----------



## Currawong

I wonder if it'd be worth me experimentally trying different USB ports, as I've only tried a port from my cheap USB hub, which has dedicated power.  It's interesting that some people have found the PSU makes a difference, and some not, so it is likely dependant on the USB port.


----------



## borrego

Would you be able to try the difference between using the dedicated PSU and a ordinary external wall wart switching power supply? Kingwa told me he find no difference using hte dedicated PSU and wall wart. Thank you!


----------



## FauDrei

@Shogo33
   
  What about USB vs. COAX differences?


----------



## Pacha

Still waiting for more comparison reviews of modded HiFace vs DI with or without its dedicated PSU.
   
  The unit itself looks promising anyway.


----------



## volume

I would probably be the only one with this kind of gear, atleast I want to assume so.
   
  I have compared
   
*FLAC--> foobar2000 using WASAPI -->USB --> audio gd Digital Interface using USB POWER  --> audio gd custom canare plug BNC BNC cable --> audio gd DAC19 DSP --> audio gd ACSS cable --> audio gd C-2 --> headphones*
   
  with
   
   
*FLAC--> foobar2000 using WASAPI -->USB --> audio gd DAC19 DSP --> audio gd ACSS cable --> audio gd C-2 --> headphones*
   
  I have spend about 3 weeks now with this unit and haven't been able to write a review,tonight I felt damn it let me just sit down and write something nice.
   
  I have spend about an hour listening to the same track, 3 different genres.
  I have listened for short bursts of tracks I know left right and centre, so I would not make any assumptions of what I'am listening or what I'am seeing-does that make any sense.
   
  I would like to state that,I'am not unhappy with the digital interface because it does nothing wrong.
  Some rigs are very detailed and revealing,some are not.
  You probably get the idea after my rig stated above that it produces very detailed  music.
   
  The headphones I have used are K701's,I don't know whether they are mid-fi or hi-fi especially for the price they sell for now,All I know is that they are reference headphones and no one can take that away from them.
   
  Therefore please don't say that my headphones are not on par.
   
   
  I would like to say that the last hour I spend I concentrated like crazy to listen to any differences between the USB direct input to the DAC19 and the DI input to it.
   
  It hasn't been much fun,I would also like to state that I have the new DAC19 DSP with the new Tenor chip and the re-programmed DSP1 which made a big change when Kingwa sent me the new DSP1.
  Therefore I feel the direct USB input is at its peak.
  I would recommend new buyers to definitely get the DI instead of the USB input if there is an option,otherwise if your gear is similar to mine,please don't expect to hear major differences.
   
  I could always type wider soundstage ,tighter bass and so on, but I won't for once.
  Because I don't want to miss lead anyone,also the difference if any are so minor,you may get a headache finding them.
   
  I would state it again,that this is my finding.I don't have the best ears but neither do I have the worst.


----------



## slim.a

Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> I stated earlier that he DI had a more natural sound. There is more cohesion to the music, the sounds and instruments fit in their right places. The DI still has some great instrument separation but the music still feels as whole  Contrary to the hiface jkeny mod the highs and perhaps upper mids are not overemphasized. Also, in terms of 2d soundstage, I find it perhaps a little wider with the DI but the hiface jkeny mod offers probably more depth but maybe that's because some frequencies are put more forward than others.
> Also, I did notice with the DI that the very low frequencies (Bass) were considerably more present after more than a week of full use. I actually like a lot better the DI with the bass impact I get when I play my Wu-Tang tracks. However, perhaps the DI offers a darker sound than the hiface jkeny mod does. I'm wondering if that thick black background that we were talking about with the DI doesn't get in the way of the music that comes to your ears.


 
   
  Quote: 





julienm said:


> For what it's worth, a few months ago I had 2 BNC hiFaces, one stock and the other modded. I felt the difference between them was minimal, and I didn't always preferred the battery powered one. But I felt the USB input on my RE5DSP was superior to either hiFace, and not by a small margin. I have a DI on order, I should be able to give more feedback in a few weeks.
> 
> J


 
   
  Quote: 





volume said:


> I would like to say that the last hour I spend I concentrated like crazy to listen to any differences between the USB direct input to the DAC19 and the DI input to it.
> 
> It hasn't been much fun,I would also like to state that I have the new DAC19 DSP with the new Tenor chip and the re-programmed DSP1 which made a big change when Kingwa sent me the new DSP1.
> Therefore I feel the direct USB input is at its peak.
> ...


 

 From reading some of the comments on the last few pages, it seems to me that:
  - the new direct USB implementation of audio-gd is performing very well
  - the DI seems to be subjectively preferred to some of the competing products (Hiface, Musiland...)
   
  This makes me very curious to try one of those Digital Interfaces. My test unit was sent to me by audio-gd around 3 weeks ago but it seems to be lost by EMS somewhere. While I am very satisfied with Jkeny's Hiface, I don't personally find very user friendly (I often forget to set it to recharge). If the Digital Interface is anywhere near the performance level of the modified Hiface, I will definitely keep it.
   
  BTW, did any of the testers try it with the ADUM isolator? I have bought one and I found that it improved the sound of the Musiland a little more than it improved the sound of the Teralink X2 (which also uses a Tenor chip). The fact that people don't seem to notice a huge difference with or without the external power supply seems to indicate that the Digital Interface has a pretty solid power filtration built into it.


----------



## Currawong

Annoyingly, the one Kingwa sent me to try doesn't have the PSU, so I'm limited to testing with USB.


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





slim.a said:


> From reading some of the comments on the last few pages, it seems to me that:
> - the new direct USB implementation of audio-gd is performing very well


 
  Only one post that I read hears no difference- Kingwa feels the DI is superior in every way to the built-in. He talked me into the DI as I was going to order the Ref-8 with USB. But maybe we're splitting hairs.


----------



## Currawong

Something worth considering is that a number of us have DSP-1-based DACs. When Kingwa first brought out the Ref 1, he said that the DSP was good enough that the difference between using a cheap DVD player and a high-end transport with it was minimal.  This correlates with the minimal improvement we seem to be getting with the DI.  What would be worth testing it on are other high-quality non-Audio-gd DACs to see how much it affects them.
   
  However, it will definitely be interesting to see how it affects the new ESS Sabre-based NFB DACs.


----------



## tim3320070

I could try it on my iBasso D10 for giggles.


----------



## Newk Yuler

Quote:


slim.a said:


> This makes me very curious to try one of those Digital Interfaces. My test unit was sent to me by audio-gd around 3 weeks ago but it seems to be lost by EMS somewhere. While I am very satisfied with Jkeny's Hiface, I don't personally find very user friendly (I often forget to set it to recharge). If the Digital Interface is anywhere near the performance level of the modified Hiface, I will definitely keep it.
> 
> BTW, did any of the testers try it with the ADUM isolator? I have bought one and I found that it improved the sound of the Musiland a little more than it improved the sound of the Teralink X2 (which also uses a Tenor chip). The fact that people don't seem to notice a huge difference with or without the external power supply seems to indicate that the Digital Interface has a pretty solid power filtration built into it.


 

 I've been wondering why you've been so quiet about the DI after you relaunched the comparison thread.  I've been anxious for your thoughts in comparison to the Jkeny Hiface with your DAC19DSP/C-2 system.
   
  Have you tried the ADUM isolator on the DAC19DSP's USB input?


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





newk yuler said:


> Quote:
> 
> *I've been wondering why you've been so quiet about the DI *after you relaunched the comparison thread.  I've been anxious for your thoughts in comparison to the Jkeny Hiface with your DAC19DSP/C-2 system.
> 
> Have you tried the ADUM isolator on the DAC19DSP's USB input?


 

 X2


----------



## Uri Cohen

I would like to know this as well.  If it does work then I will do an Audio GD DAC setup in the future so I can make Ubuntu my main OS (so I don't have to use Windows that much anymore). 
  Quote: 





dynobot said:


> Anyone try it with LINUX????
> 
> If it uses the Tenor USB then it should work because I already tested the Tenor with Linux....24/96.


----------



## Nada

Ubuntu can be very hard to get pit-perfect playback on. I tried it with 9.1 and it was changing the sample rate playback with ALSA with Pulse Audio off and even a Linux guru couldnt fix it. Without a DAC with a readout of the input signal I wouldnt have known.


----------



## Uri Cohen

That's odd.  Do you think it would be fixed in 10.4?  I will be just be running redbook stuff only.


----------



## Pluto2

Received my DI today : )
   
  Installed Foobar + Wasapi first time on my laptop, and I have a question on the setting.....
   
  At Preferences >Ouput> Device, it works with the "DS : SPDIF Interface (TE7022 Audio w/ SPDIF) setting but not with Wasapi : SPDIF Interface (TE7022 Audio w/ SPDIF), don't know why and it would sound like a diying coupling e- cap and kind of like out of sync too...actually more like running a 78 on 33...
   
  Does anyone know why? Something is not set up right?
   
  Many thanks for your advice in advance!!
   
  BTW, I will be comparing the DI with my Studer-like Sony DVD player, and a heavily modded SB3, all to be connected to the REF2 DAC (DSP-1 inside).


----------



## JulioCat2

Quote: 





pluto2 said:


> Installed Foobar + Wasapi first time on my laptop, and I have a question on the setting.....
> 
> At Preferences >Ouput> Device, it works with the "DS : SPDIF Interface (TE7022 Audio w/ SPDIF) setting but not with Wasapi : SPDIF Interface (TE7022 Audio w/ SPDIF), don't know why and it would sound like a diying coupling e- cap and kind of like out of sync too...actually more like running a 78 on 33...


 

 Did you instal the wasapi dll for foobar??
http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_out_wasapi


----------



## Nada

Quote: 





pluto2 said:


> Wasapi : SPDIF Interface (TE7022 Audio w/ SPDIF), don't know why and it would sound like a diying coupling e- cap and kind of like out of sync too...actually more like running a 78 on 33...Does anyone know why? Something is not set up right?


 
  try seting the buffer really low - between 50 -400 usually works
  if you search back in this thread you will find your not the only one - just put WASAPI into "search this thread"  or try using google


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





nada said:


> Ubuntu can be very hard to get pit-perfect playback on. I tried it with 9.1 and it was changing the sample rate playback with ALSA with Pulse Audio off and even a Linux guru couldnt fix it. Without a DAC with a readout of the input signal I wouldnt have known.


 

 I guess it depends on what software you are using for Playback.
   
  With Music Player Daemon bit perfect is pretty easy.


----------



## Pluto2

Quote: 





nada said:


> try seting the buffer really low - between 50 -400 usually works
> if you search back in this thread you will find your not the only one - just put WASAPI into "search this thread"  or try using google


 

 Bingo~!! Thanks so much Nada : )


----------



## slim.a

Quote: 





newk yuler said:


> Quote:
> 
> I've been wondering why you've been so quiet about the DI after you relaunched the comparison thread.  I've been anxious for your thoughts in comparison to the Jkeny Hiface with your DAC19DSP/C-2 system.
> 
> Have you tried the ADUM isolator on the DAC19DSP's USB input?


 
   
  Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> X2


 

 At the time I relaunched the comparison thread, I thought I would be receiving the DI soon. Now that it seems to be lost, I will wait until Kingwa can get some new DI. I asked Kingwa early this week if I could buy a second Digital Interface from him and send him back the test unit if/when it shows but he told me they were currently out of stock. Too bad as I was really curious to hear his new offering.
   
  Regarding the ADUM isolator, I am preparing a little write-up that I am going to write on the other thread to not clutter this one this one. (While I still have some listening to do, the ADUM surprisingly seems to benefit the most the Musiland 01 USD.)


----------



## JulioCat2

Quote: 





slim.a said:


> Regarding the ADUM isolator, I am preparing a little write-up that I am going to write on the other thread to not clutter this one this one. (While I still have some listening to do, the ADUM surprisingly seems to benefit the most the Musiland 01 USD.)


 

 I ask a few days ago if the DI is galvanically isolated but no one answered because as you discover the ADUM Isolator is a must for any USB Audio Device in order to obtain the best sound out of it.


----------



## leeperry

juliocat2 said:


> I ask a few days ago if the DI is galvanically isolated but no one answered


 

 Because it's not...before ADUM4160 showed up, it used to cost a hell lot of money to isolate USB...like in this thing.


----------



## K3cT

Some pages ago, I think someone mentioned about doing RMAA testing to make sure that the DI does not do do funky "equalizing" with the sound. Whatever happened to that? I thought that it's a valid concern and it will be a very interesting discussion.


----------



## Nada

Quote: 





juliocat2 said:


> I ask a few days ago if the DI is galvanically isolated but no one answered because as you discover the ADUM Isolator is a must for any USB Audio Device in order to obtain the best sound out of it.


 
  Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Because it's not...before ADUM4160 showed up, it used to cost a hell lot of money to isolate USB...like in this thing.


 
   
  [size=x-small]"The Digital Interface applied a silver wires isolated transformer for insulate the ground noise between PC and the DAC, which can offer the black backstage and more analog sound flavors.[/size]" http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USBface/Digital1EN.htm
   
  I thought that a silver wired isloation transformer in the DI would qualify as a high standard of galavinc isolation from the computer hash? But I know nothing!


----------



## leeperry

nada said:


> I thought that a silver wired isloation transformer in the DI would qualify as a high standard of galavinc isolation from the computer hash?


 

 That's most likely over coax...coax galvanic isolation is pretty easy, it can be done w/ a ferrite or a pulse transformer(which would apparently be a grossly overpriced ferrite at heart). USB isolation is far more complicated, only AD have a ready-to-go chip for that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sJaQHp5oSk


----------



## Nada

This photo in http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USBface/DI5.jpg suggests that the silver isolation transformer is on the spdif output? It looks like the idea is to take out the ground noise, as the web site states. Is that called galvanic isolation?
   
  I wonder if that Analogue Devices ADUM4160 chip  (http://www.analog.com/en/interface/digital-isolators/adum4160/products/product.html) would be *predicted* to give the DI an even better quality of performance?


----------



## Nada

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Nada* /img/forum/go_quote.gif Is that called galvanic isolation?


 
  Well wikipedia says yes it is:     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_isolation


----------



## slim.a

Quote: 





nada said:


> This photo in http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USBface/DI5.jpg suggests that the silver isolation transformer is on the spdif output? It looks like the idea is to take out the ground noise, as the web site states. Is that called galvanic isolation?
> 
> I wonder if that Analogue Devices ADUM4160 chip  (http://www.analog.com/en/interface/digital-isolators/adum4160/products/product.html) would be *predicted* to give the DI an even better quality of performance?


 

 Indeed, the silver isolation transformer will provide isolation from the converter to the converter. Hence, no noise coming from the computer will _directly_ affect the DAC that is connected to the DI.
   
  The ADUM provides galvanic isolation from the computer to the sub device. In my opinion, it is beneficial in 2 ways: if you connect a non isolated DAC directly to the computer or if you are using a poorly/average constructed usb converter that is heavily affected by the noise of the computer.
  In my testing, I have found that the ADUM affects more the Musiland 01 USD (poorly constructed, uses the computer power supply) than the Teralink X2 (especially when using an external power supply).
   
  The DI seems to have a pretty decent power filtration built-in. This is apparent if you look at the pictures on the website and also at the comments of the people who actually listened to it.
  The fact that there is very little (or no difference) between powering the DI from USB or from an external source prooves that Kingwa has done a pretty good job at the power filter section. From this observation, I can predict that the ADUM and other audiophile tweaks (esoteric usb cables) will have little or no effect on the DI. At least it should have less effect than on competing products.
   
  Sometimes, there are people who get excited (positively) when they discover that their usb converter can be improved when adding an external power supply or an ADUM converter. To me it is a sign of a weakness in the design of such a converter.
  The same can be said for DACs: the entry level FUN is more sensitive (and "revealing") regarding the quality of the transports than the DAC19dsp. To me it is a sign of weakness and not something to brag about.
   
  So to sum up, the ADUM won't add a galvanic isolation from the computer to the DAC as the DI already has that feature through the use of a silver transformer (and not a cheap off the shelf component by the way). What the ADUM would do is that it would isolate the noise from the computer to the DI and will affect how well the DI will perform... but since the reports so far seem to indicate that the external PS has little effect on the actual performance of the unit, I wouldn't expect a eart-shaking difference.

 Of course, all of this is only an educated guess. The only opinion that matters is that of people who have _actually listened_ to the Digital Interface.


----------



## leeperry

nada said:


> This photo in http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USBface/DI5.jpg suggests that the silver isolation transformer is on the spdif output? It looks like the idea is to take out the ground noise, as the web site states. Is that called galvanic isolation?
> 
> I wonder if that Analogue Devices ADUM4160 chip  (http://www.analog.com/en/interface/digital-isolators/adum4160/products/product.html) would be *predicted* to give the DI an even better quality of performance?


 
   
  The goal is not only to galvanically isolate the coax output, it's also to do it on the USB input so no grounds will be shared whatsoever. Any semi-decent S/PDIF transport has a ferrite bead/pulse transformer on its coax output...even a Monitor 01USD does for that matter.
   
  If USB isolation were so easy, AD wouldn't have bothered making the ADUM4160 chip. And yes it's a magical chip that improves every USB audio device you'll put it on as it reclocks the USB data flow, filters useless messages and provides it w/ a clean signal. Your pic clearly shows that that ferrite bead is in the coax signal path....you can't filter USB this easily.


----------



## slim.a

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> The goal is not only to galvanically isolate the coax output, it's also to do it on the USB input so no grounds will be shared whatsoever.


 
   
  It seems that we have different goals: my goal is to have the best sound quality possible, regardless of the technology being used. If the best result can be obtained by using battery power, let it be. If the best result can be obtained by using a USB isolator, I don't care.
  My goal is not to have a specific set of components (ADUM, ...) inside (or plugged to) a converter but to have the best sound quality out of a converter. So far, I have tested/owned more than 8 external usb converters during the past 2 years. What I have learned is that you can have adaptive sound better than async, you can have external power supply sounding worse than usb power and vice versa.
  There are no amount of tech talk that is going to give you with certainty the outcome of a technology until you have tried it on your system.
   
  Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Any semi-decent S/PDIF transport has a ferrite bead/pulse transformer on its coax output...even a Monitor 01USD does for that matter.


 
   
  Not all output stages are created equally. There is pulse transformer and ... silver transformer. Since you mentioned the Musiland 01 USD, the pulse transformer it uses is not even suited for 192KHz. The one used in the stock Hiface is not up to standards (regal had the DIY to mod it, I didn't).
  The 75 ohms driver and the silver transformer used on the DI are a objectively a step up from the cheap components used on many entry/mid level converters. You have to go something like Empirical Audio Units to get that kind of quality output stages. Whether that is audible or not should be left to the people who have actually listened to the units... and reports are positive so far.
   
   
  Quote: 





leeperry said:


> If USB isolation were so easy, AD wouldn't have bothered making the ADUM4160 chip. *And yes it's a magical chip that improves every USB audio device* you'll put it on as it reclocks the USB data flow, filters useless messages and provides it w/ a clean signal. Your pic clearly shows that that ferrite bead is in the coax signal path....you can't filter USB this easily.


 
   
  In order to put your comment into perspective, could you please answer 2 simple questions:
  1. Do you have first hand experience with the Audio-gd Digital Interface? Or perhaps one of Audio-gd's DSP-1 based DACs?
  2. With how many converters on the market (could you name them?) have you tried the ADUM?
   
  Keep in mind that this a thread about the Audio-gd Digital Interface. If you answer by a personal attack or by quoting some random poster about the ADUM, I will just have to assume that the answers to the 2 questions are: 1.you have no exposure with the DI and 2. you have only tried the ADUM with your Firestone converter.
  For the sake of the conversation, let's keep this civil and talk about facts (it is very important to distinguish between proven facts and personal opinions and personal speculation).


----------



## leeperry

nada said:


> ADUM4160 chip


 
   
  I forgot to mention ADUM5000, but it's limited to 0.1A so no dongle using both seem to be available atm(USB can need up to 0.5A)..soon enough those two dynamite brothers will show up within USB audio interfaces input stages..it's only a matter of time.


----------



## Currawong

Being this is the DI thread, and Kingwa being Kingwa, he'll probably read this (or someone will email him and ask about it), get hold of said USB isolating chip and test it, if he believes it will make any useful improvement.  If it does, it will appear in a revision of the DI. That's how it usually goes, doesn't it? Remember the 75 Ohm BNC socket discussion? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Interesting topic though.


----------



## slim.a

Quote: 





currawong said:


> Being this is the DI thread, and Kingwa being Kingwa, he'll probably read this (or someone will email him and ask about it), get hold of said USB isolating chip and test it, if he believes it will make any useful improvement.  If it does, it will appear in a revision of the DI. That's how it usually goes, doesn't it? Remember the 75 Ohm BNC socket discussion?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I do agree with your assesment. Kingwa has been very responsive to suggestions these past few months: the 75 BNC socket but sometimes also by bringing new products (ES9018 DAcs, ROC SA for orthodynamics,...). I wonder if he ever finds the time to sleep.
   
  I already suggested to him to make an upper scale usb converter (maybe on the CD7 level). I am sure he has the knowledge and capability to do so ... Maybe if enough people ask him ... he will think about it


----------



## leeperry

currawong said:


> Being this is the DI thread, and Kingwa being Kingwa, he'll probably read this (or someone will email him and ask about it), get hold of said USB isolating chip and test it


 

 get him to reclock the USB input via a WM8804 chip(50ps jitter) as well(using a good masterclock such as the zero PPM PLL1707), and I'll be glad to pay for shipping to test it(together w/ the DPS)


----------



## Newk Yuler

Quote:


leeperry said:


> If USB isolation were so easy, AD wouldn't have bothered making the ADUM4160 chip. And yes *it's a magical chip that improves every USB audio device you'll put it on* as it reclocks the USB data flow, filters useless messages and provides it w/ a clean signal. Your pic clearly shows that that ferrite bead is in the coax signal path....you can't filter USB this easily.


 
  I have the diyparadise Ultravox version of the ADUM. It has a painfully obvious *degrading* affect on an Empirical Audio Off Ramp.


----------



## leeperry

newk yuler said:


> I have the diyparadise Ultravox version of the ADUM. It has a painfully obvious *degrading* affect on an Empirical Audio Off Ramp.


 

 O RLY? well, this is said to be 1ps jitter gear...what's the chip being used on its USB input? most likely not PCM2702 or TE7022L ^^
   
  As explained in the youtube I recently linked, you can isolate/reclock USB by other means, but this doesn't come cheap...like in that Peachtree Audio Nova.
   
  But you can see that this Monica2 DAC user was sold on it, and everyone trying it has given the same kind of raving feedback(including me, but my computer PSU is as dirty as can get): http://diyparadise.com/forum/index.php?topic=1063.msg11167#msg11167
   
_"it is funny, all the sounds are there, some details too,
 it just doesn't  sound so realistic without the USB-isolator. Music Dies away. Some of the magic dies out, the room perspective, depth is not so clear.. It's not coming out of the speakers properly without the isolator... Funny!"_
   
  and another one: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Big-Bear-USB-2ISO
   
_"With the rDac it provides a greater degree of a black background and lower noise floor."_
   
  I clearly couldn't think about using my current transport w/o it, and most other TE7022L users will agree on this


----------



## Currawong

Leeperry: maybe someone with a DI will try one. There is no need to argue so seriously about it.


----------



## leeperry

currawong said:


> Leeperry: maybe someone with a DI will try one. There is no need to argue so seriously about it.


 

 I wasn't being so serious about it 
   
  We all know how the Empirical gear is hyped to death(its +50yo manager boasts about hearing 1ps jitter), I'm surprised ADUM4160 wouldn't work at all on it?! Saying that your gear is the best is easy, every manufacturer does it("_the Goldpoint Headphone Pro sounds clearly better than most other headphone amplifiers"_)...hearing what the fuss is all about is another story altogether.
   
  ADUM4160 w/o WM8804 would be missing its elder brother IMHO.


----------



## slim.a

Quote: 





newk yuler said:


> Quote:
> I have the diyparadise Ultravox version of the ADUM. It has a painfully obvious *degrading* affect on an Empirical Audio Off Ramp.


 

 Thanks for sharing with us your personal experience with the ADUM.
   
  I was also suspecting that it might actually degrade the performance of very good converters. Since I noticed relatively big improvements on my worst converter and far less improvement with a "tweaked" one, it is easy to imagine a situation like yours where it actually degrades the performance.
   
  This is similar to reclockers: when using a low end transport, using a recloking device (such as the Ref-3) might help. When using a high-end transport (such as the CD-7, Esoteric transports...), a reclocker will degrade the performance. Kingwa said to me once that putting his Ref-3 reclocker following the CD-7 will sound worse than the CD-7.
   
  Many people in the audio world don't understand between a specified intrinsic jitter of a digital receiver (50ps for the WM8804 for example) and the actual jitter and phase clock noise that passes through the receiver into the DAC.
  Believing you can solve all the problems in the digital world by means of galvanic isolation and a "50ps" digital receiver/reclocker is a very simplistic way to view digital audio.
   
  On Digital devices such as the DI and even more so on the Empirical Audio units, there is a REAL understanding of how digital audio works (besides putting together off the shelf chips without any consideration to the layout...).

 What you have heard makes sense to me on 2 levels:
  1. It makes sense from a technical point of view
  2. You reported a personal and subjective listening experience: it should be respected as such and not doubted, especially from someone who has zero experience with your converter (or with the Digital Interface, which is the title of this thread).


----------



## leeperry

currawong said:


> maybe someone with a DI will try one.


 

 to be fair, there's many ADUM4160 dongles available and their effect on the Tenor chip are well known...but the whole idea would be to feed it from the DPS. The current solution to do that is to build a TREAD PSU and this board, quite cumbersome :/


----------



## Dynobot

I think a Jameco Linear / Regulated power supply would do a good job...would a TREAD be that much better?


----------



## leeperry

dynobot said:


> I think a Jameco Linear / Regulated power supply would do a good job...would a TREAD be that much better?


 

 You could look up its ripple figure in its datasheet. A properly built TREAD has 0.00x mV ripple AFAICR.


----------



## Audio Bling

[size=10pt]Comparo – Digital Interface and External Power Supply[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]Packaging[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]Both Audio-gd’s Digital Interface (DI) and External Power Supply (EPS) arrived in a sturdy plain cardboard box. The trip to AUS had taken five days. Inside the box, the products were protected from shock by a plastic foam cradle. There is no purpose-made packaging nor was there an instruction manual. “Extras” incl. power lead & usb cable.[/size]
   
   
  [size=10pt]Build quality[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]Build quality of DI and EPS are good. The EPS especially has some heft. The hardware looks good: nice gold fittings and functional plastic switches. I am not in a position to measure it, but hopefully the BNC socket is true 75ohm. The omission of rubber feet is a pity since the units are meant to stack (one on top the other). I opened up the DI to look inside; everything is neat and tidy. I have not opened the EPS. Aesthetically, I would have preferred the USB/COAX switch on the front panel (of Version A) to have been on the rear panel instead. One niggle is the stock USB cable seems a bit oversize so that it requires a bit of force to get it in/out. [/size]
   
   
  [size=10pt]Format[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]Why do we need separates? True, it allows some flexibility but it is a nuisance in that additional cabling is required as well as valuable shelf space.  Why not incorporate the DI into the DAC itself? Perhaps Kingwa can answer..[/size]
   
   
  [size=10pt]What kind of product is this?[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]Where does the DI fit in the world of DIs? It is not asynchronous, it does not require specialist drivers; it is a reclocker with DSP. [/size]
   
   
  [size=10pt]My set up[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]My system is listed in my sig. it has some strengths and weaknesses. I am not into cans. Maybe one day.[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]DAC-19DSP settings: PLL inactive; All other settings: Default[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]I like a “near field” listening experience. If I go to a concert I want to be in the front row. Same with music playback. I know that PLL inactive brings things forward a little. I have gone to some trouble to push the noise floor down (undervolting + linear PS) on my computer. All these things allow me to hear details. This is my preference.[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]USB cables (a short diversion): The stock USB cable shipped with the DI is fairly good (sound wise). There are audiophile USB cables out there but this is an area that I have not ventured since I am of the opinion that USB is an inherently flawed interface that is nevertheless convenient. I once read a post by Gordon Rankin (of Wavelength Audio) where he states that the number of errors over USB is proportional to cable length. I have conducted my own listening tests with generic USB cables over various lengths and can confirm his finding: less is more. The best sounding USB cable I have is a humble 12in cable that was shipped with my Musiland. I compared this to the stock 60in DI cable; I found the 12in to sound better. No surprise.[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]I play music exclusively from music files stored on my hard disk. My music files are created from CD using EAC. I rip one CD to create one .WAV. I don’t use any form of compression because I don’t want my undervolted CPU to do anything it doesn’t have to during playback. My objective is to keep RF as low as possible.[/size]
   
   
  [size=10pt]Comparo[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]I began the comparo with the USB input on the DAC19-DSP (Tenor TE7022 USB input chip). My impression of this interface is that it is not particularly good. It is not dynamic and voices are not distinct. Soundstage is restricted. The general sense I have is that everything is reduced to less than it could be (compared to other, more revealing interfaces). Read on..[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]My Musiland 01USD has been modified with Vampire 75ohm BNC and linear PS. I run the Musiland with 1.0.8.4 driver (not the latest) which I think sounds best.[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]The Musiland tends to overemphasise the upper mids to the point of being trebly. I also find the bass isn’t as tight as it should be. There is a sense of detail and dynamics (which is good) but vocals are not weighted properly and backgrounds are not as black as they could be (which is bad). This last point is something I attribute in part to its power supply. The Musiland takes its power from the USB 5V line. As a mod, I have snipped the 5V USB line and power the Musiland with an external linear PS. This has quietened things down a bit. [/size]
   
  [size=10pt]In sum, the Musiland has some good attributes and some bad. Soundstage is good. However, there is a sense of overemphasis and the feeling that things are a little jigged and “enhanced”. But still and all, for the money, it is pretty good with the mods that I have made.[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]Empirical Audio (EA) Freeway2 (USD640). My impression of this unit is that it has a very clean and neutral sound that borders slightly on the clinical. To its credit, vocals are distinct and bass is tight. To the contra, emotional involvement can be a bit low. BTW, though the Freeway2 is now discontinued, it is somewhat equivalent (if price is any indicator) to the newer Off-Ramp (USD699). Of course, EA would probably say that the current Off-Ramps have been improved. For this reason, I wanted to include in this review a comparo with an EA Off-Ramp with Superclock (USD999). (Superclock is a USD300 option for the Off-Ramp.) [/size]
   
  [size=10pt]I found the DI sans external EPS to be a little slow. Whereas the Musiland moves along with tizzed up highs, the DI seems to move along in a bit of a plodding, bass-centric fashion. The music is rhythmic and reasonably dynamic with nice highs and a passable if lazy bass. Also, instruments are not as authentic as the Freeway2. This being said, I think the DI is a satisfying listen which is to say that I don’t think it is inhibited in its ability to convey the essential character of the music. The addition of EPS to the DI improves the sound. Things are tightened up a notch for sure but the unit still lacks speed and authenticity. [/size]
   
  [size=10pt]In sum, I think the DI is a good listen that is improved by the EPS. It has a good soundstage. However, I think it feigns a “natural” sound by its skew toward the lower registers. I think it is ahead of the Musiland but not at the level of the Freeway2. As confirmation of this finding, I took the DI over to a friend’s place for a comparo with his EA Off-Ramp + Superclock. (His system, BTW, is stellar: Playback Designs DAC, EMM Labs Pre, Pass Labs mono blocks..) The result here was the same except that four ears now confirmed the DI’s shortcomings. [/size]
   
  [size=10pt]A note: As I say, I am not a “can man”. However, I do have an A-gd DAC-19 + C-2 combo. And, hidden away in the back of my toy-box is a pair of Senn HD490s. (Sorry if the thought of this offends anyone out there!) Anyhow, I did have a listen through these “pseudo-cans” and report that I could no longer hear a difference between DI with/without EPS. Take whatever you want from this.[/size]
   
   
  [size=10pt]What was not tested[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]I have not tested the upsampling function on the DI.[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]I have not tested the S/PDIF input on the DI.[/size]
   
   
  [size=10pt]Issues[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]USB cable connector is a bit oversize so that it requires a bit of force to get it in/out of the DI. [/size]
   
  [size=10pt]Tenor TE7022 USB input chip does not support 88.2kHz. This is going to be an issue if, for example, you use 88.2 hi-rez material. [/size]
   
  [size=10pt]Also, when the computer fires up, the TE7022 sets it self at half volume which is its default setting. For me, this is a nuisance because it means that I have to always go into the Control Panel to reset the level to max (as this is the level I like to run the unit at).[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]Is the DI bit-perfect? Had I a DTS receiver I would have done a test. But I do not. [/size]
   
   
  [size=10pt]Conclusion. Do I keep the DI? [/size]
   
  [size=10pt]What has this comparo shown? Not very much to be truthful! I have compared the DI to.the USB input of my DAC-19DSP and my modded Musiland and thought the DI was better. I have compared the DI to an EA Freeway2 and Off-Ramp + Superclock and thought the DI lost that contest. At no stage did I compare the DI to something near its price point. Also, I have not experimented with DIP settings nor I2S connection to DAC. So, there may be more performance to wring out of the DI yet! I do think the DI is a good listen and will be keeping it. I just don’t think it is amongst the best devices of its type in the marketplace.[/size]


----------



## Audio Bling

USB polling tweak: http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=78994


----------



## volume

That was a nice reviews,thanks for posting your views.Considering we have a similar setup.
   
  The only difference is that I hear from headphones and not speakers from this rig.
  Quote: 





audio bling said:


> [size=10pt]Comparo – Digital Interface and External Power Supply[/size]


----------



## seaninbrisbane

Mine arrived a few minutes ago....all seems good so far. Just one question - I am using iTunes with a MacBook Pro and CIA VDA-2 DAC; when I switch to 24 bit 96000hz in Audio setup, the sound stops - any ideas what I am doing wrong?  Cheers


----------



## slim.a

Quote: 





audio bling said:


> [size=10pt]Comparo – Digital Interface and External Power Supply[/size]


 
   
  Very nice write-up Audio Bling!
   
  Since I haven't received the DI yet, I am curious about the following points (if you don't mind):
   
  - Did the unit need any burn-in?
   
  - Did you try the DI + DAC19DSP with the PLL turned ON? Except when using the Jkeny's modded Hiface, I prefer to always leave the PLL on. In fact, even with Jkeny's Hiface turning the PLL off just throws away part of the DAC19DSP coherency (to my ears).
   
  - What drivers/media players are you using? (With the Teralink X2 which uses a similar Tenor chip, I got better results when using Teralink X2 own asio drivers than using regular DS over Win XP, so I am wondering if the drivers are going to be an issue with the DI...).


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> You could look up its ripple figure in its datasheet. A properly built TREAD has 0.00x mV ripple AFAICR.


 

 Wow....0.00 is low.
   
  As always how does that relate to human hearing, even the Super hearing capabilities of Audiophiles I don't know....


----------



## leeperry

dynobot said:


> Wow....0.00 is low.
> As always how does that relate to human hearing, even the Super hearing capabilities of Audiophiles I don't know....


   
  I made a thread about it a while back: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/496161/
   
  and the TREAD was measured at 0.060 mVRMS.


----------



## Dynobot

This IS a problem with the TE7022, I found that even at comparable volume levels there still seems to be just a tad bit of something missing.
   
  If you connect both SPDIF and USB to your source.  Listen to SPDIF at X-volume level per your pre-amp/amp....then go back and use USB making the necessary source adjustments to get the same volume level.  I could say that the USB seems to have a darker background compared to Spdif.  But there still seems to be a bit of something missing from the upper mids which to me gives the illusion of a darker background.  To me USB seems to be a bit thick sounding compared to Spdif.  Kind of like Cardas cables vs Audioquest.
  
  Quote: 





audio bling said:


> [size=10pt]Issues[/size]
> 
> [size=10pt]Also, when the computer fires up, the TE7022 sets it self at half volume which is its default setting.[/size]


----------



## Audio Bling

[size=medium]Slim.a..[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]>“Did the unit need any burn-in?”[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]Yes, but I didn’t find much improvement after, say, four days. Just to be clear, I ran the DI + EPS 24/7 for about 5days then for a number of hours per day thereafter. I did quite a bit of listening over the course of two weeks. It is possible that it may improve further. I will report if it does.[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]>“Did you try the DI + DAC19DSP with the PLL turned ON?”[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]Yes, I did. I just seem to lose a degree of detail (and coherency) when I do this. I will try PLL ON again as I always like to re-validate preferences and settings from time to time and particularly after I make a change (as I just have done with the USB polling edit). Regardless, my opinion of the DI will not alter with the PLL setting as I have listened to the DI both ways.[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]>“What drivers/media players are you using? “[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]I use a cMP2 box which is to say I use cPlay (latest version). I use Asio4all to both DI and Freeway2. I use Foobar (with Kernal Streaming) from time to time again for the purpose of re-validating my settings. I didn’t listen to the DI with Foobar but will do so and report if my opinion changes.[/size]


----------



## slim.a

Quote: 





audio bling said:


> [size=medium]Slim.a..[/size]
> 
> [size=10pt]>“Did the unit need any burn-in?”[/size]
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for your very informative and thorough answer! It gives a better understanding on where the DI stands up. According to Kingwa's own admission, the Ref-3 is better than the DI and the CD-7 is better than the Ref-3.
   
  Since even the dac19dsp can benefit from something like the EA units, I really think Kingwa should make a higher end usb converter to match his mid-level and higher end DACs. Maybe he prefers to wait until he can makes things as good as the CD-7 ... who knows.


----------



## lag0a

http://www.hack7mc.com/2009/01/playing-flac-files-in-media-center.html
   
  I found a link on playing flac in windows media player. I never tried to play flac on it before since I had foobar and tried J River Media 15 recently, and WMP really didn't play flacs so I found and tried this tutorial. Now flacs play in WMP.


----------



## haloxt

WMP spdif is not bit-perfect without using some bit-perfect software. There is an ASIO plug-in for WMP. It is annoying to set up and use, and has interesting bugs.
   
  http://sourceforge.net/projects/asiowmpplg/


----------



## lag0a

Nevermind


----------



## haloxt

I thought you said you didn't have bit-perfect in WMP, my bad.


----------



## Dynobot

Remember the days before USB....when there was only SPDIF [coax or toslink] and AES/EBU digital connections.
   
  People there were people in every camp, toslink was hailed because of the lack of an electrical connection and all its faults.  Back then the Van Den Hul Optocoupler was THE way to go for all things digital.
   
  Some people heard better sound via coax and still others swore by a balanced connection like the pro's.  Where was jitter back then???
   
  Now inter Firewire and USB, the pro's probably use Firewire more than USB and the "Audiophile" community has adopted USB as THE method of digital transfer.  Of course being an Audiophile the only obvious choice has to be something that is flawed from the start and lends itself to endless tweaks and fixes to make it perfect.  How did USB, something meant for printers and keyboards end up being so important to audio?
   
  Now you need to De-couple the USB with a added device which works best when powered with pure clean regulated DC, Asynch the data between the source and the DAC with another device, and then convert the USB to SPDIF before you can even get a signal worth listening too.  Something is wrong with this picture.  Is the Audiophile community the victim of a Marketing experiment?
   
   
  Quote: 





leeperry said:


> dynobot said:
> 
> 
> > Wow....0.00 is low.
> ...


----------



## leeperry

dynobot said:


> toslink was hailed because of the lack of an electrical connection and all its faults.  Back then the Van Den Hul Optocoupler was THE way to go for all things digital.
> 
> Some people heard better sound via coax and still others swore by a balanced connection like the pro's.  Where was jitter back then???
> 
> Now inter Firewire and USB, the pro's probably use Firewire more than USB and the "Audiophile" community has adopted USB as THE method of digital transfer.  Of course being an Audiophile the only obvious choice has to be something that is flawed from the start and lends itself to endless tweaks and fixes to make it perfect.  How did USB, something meant for printers and keyboards end up being so important to audio?


 

 Well, the jitter issue is well explained on that page: http://www.bursonaudio.com/burson_clock.htm
   
_"Jitter Error has only been identified as a deficiency in the last couple of years"_
   
  And USB audio w/o ADUM4160 is not worth a dime IMO..None of what it does is possible via firewire, hence the possibility of groundloops..I swear this guy must be on Prozac as I'm typing this: http://www.mlancentral.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=6&Board=mLAN&Number=440443&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=
   
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/101204-building-psu-external-firewire-soundcard.html
_"The firewire optical isolator is basically optical isolation for firewire device. So there is no ground loop flowing between your soundcard and the PC (PC ground is extremely dirty)."_
   
  Isolating Firewire costs a hell lof money, USB has caught up w/ coax(using pulse transformers) now that ADUM4160 is out. WM8804 is the icing on the cake to overcome the sloppy 12MHz masterclock of the Tenor chip...but I understand the DSP in the A-GD unit should also lower jitter.


----------



## Dynobot

Geeezzzzzz, my head in spinning!
   
   
  Well I bought a ADum thingy today as well as that powersupply.  Once it gets here I will compare.
   
  I don't have any DI, Highface, etc so I will just being going USB straight to the DAC.
   
  Just for kicks I think I will connect my glass toslink as well.
   
  Usually I like coax best...
   
  I also bought one of these things so I can plug the ADuM right in my DAC


----------



## slim.a

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Well, the jitter issue is well explained on that page: http://www.bursonaudio.com/burson_clock.htm
> 
> _"Jitter Error has only been identified as a deficiency in the last *couple of years*"_


 

 This is totally wrong. Jitter is not something new. People have known and talked about jitter for a *couple of decades*.

 As an example, Stereophile wrote a pretty decent article about jitter on ... 1992! Here is the link: http://www.stereophile.com/reference/193jitter/
  Stereophile has also measured jitter on CD transports on 1993. See the article here: http://www.stereophile.com/features/368/
  The search only took me less than a minute. I am pretty sure one can find out even older articles.


----------



## slim.a

Quote: 





dynobot said:


> Geeezzzzzz, my head in spinning!
> 
> 
> Well I bought a ADum thingy today as well as that powersupply.  Once it gets here I will compare.
> ...


 

 Hi Dynobot,
   
  Word of advice: I wouldn't personally base any purchase decision on Leeperry's comments. A few months ago he was trolling all over the place saying that HIS specific glass toslink cable was the best possible digital connection ever. He was saying that glass optical was better than coax. Now that he tried a cheap coax cable he is saying all over the place that coax is better than glass toslink.
  Also, now that he tried his new toy: the ADUM, he is saying that everything is worthless except what is he is using. The same goes for opamps... the only opamps worth listening to are HIS AD797BRZ and LT1028ACN8. (You can click on his profile and check his latest posts: he repeats the same things over and over).
   
  Of course this could be amusing to read if you know the guy. But when reading his very raving comments about his last new toy, I encourage you to put things into perspective.
   
  Since this thread is about the Digital Interface I will stop here. I hope that Leeperry can stop derailing this thread (in purpose).


----------



## leeperry

dynobot said:


> Geeezzzzzz, my head in spinning!
> 
> Well I bought a ADum thingy today as well as that powersupply.  Once it gets here I will compare.
> 
> I don't have any DI, Highface


 

 like this you mean?
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  ADUM4160 doesn't work on the Hiface, major deal breaker for me ^^


----------



## leeperry

audio bling said:


> USB polling tweak: http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=78994


 

 Did you try this tweak? any audible improvement?
   
  2 things don't match up for me:
   
  1)the m$ paper says it's for WinME and W2K
   
  2)USB Prober(on Mac), shows that most USB audio interfaces force the polling rate to its highest granularity(1 ms): http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Asynchronicity-USB-Audio-Primer
   
  There's a well known hack on windows which is to hexedit USBPort.sys to force it to 1ms permanently...some mice don't have caps and can reach 1Mhz instead of the default 125Hz.
   
  I've installed a modified 1ms USBPort.sys but couldn't hear any difference on the Tenor chip...grokit tried USB Prober on his Tenor unit, but it didn't say the polling rate...yet you can rest assured that it's being forced to 1ms. I really don't think you wanna add latency on purpose, but this registry entry prolly doesn't do anything on USB audio devices. I suspect the Tenor chip wouldn't work at all at 5ms.


----------



## Audio Bling

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Did you try this tweak? any audible improvement?
> 
> 2 things don't match up for me:
> 
> [..]


 

 Thanks for your thoughts.. I suggest that we take this particular discussion over to the AA thread. That way I won't feel guilty that I have derailed this thread. But to answer your question: Yes I have tried this tweak and believe that it works. Not only that but the difference is not small. Also, it is so easy to do and reverse. I recommend people give it a try (and leave their comments over on AA). There is nothing to lose.
   
  Also, this discussion about the benefits of ADUM has been done over on AA many moons ago. You guys need to get out more!


----------



## Audio Bling

Quote: 





slim.a said:


> I really think Kingwa should make a higher end usb converter to match his mid-level and higher end DACs. Maybe he prefers to wait until he can makes things as good as the CD-7 ... who knows.


 


 x2
   
  Indeed, I would like to see Kingwa build a world-beater. But I think there is some competition out there. Anyone have some experience of the Legato?


----------



## lag0a

Is jitter and phase noise an issue at the analog stage of the DAC and all the way to your headphone or can everything be corrected as it enters the DAC in the digital section?


----------



## Currawong

Yes, please take the discussion of this USB chip to its own thread, unless you have something interesting to report regarding the DI with it.
   
  The DI doesn't work directly out of my MacBook Pro's USB ports, which is annoying.  I wanted to find out if the USB ports in my hub resulted in a difference to the built-in ones. 
   
  Though I need more gear like I need a hole in the head, I have a Cambridge 840C here now, the DAC of which I'm going to see if it's affected by the DI or not.


----------



## bensl

i may have missed it (possibilty after 40+ pages!), was there a comparo between this and the firestone bravo?


----------



## Dynobot

Did anyone test the coax IN to see if it sounds better er. different than a soundcards coax?
   
  How about Linux USB?


----------



## vrln

Quote: 





audio bling said:


> x2
> 
> Indeed, I would like to see Kingwa build a world-beater. But I think there is some competition out there. Anyone have some experience of the Legato?


 
   
  He said in a mail to me that the REF3 / DI are the best he can build right now using USB... I think we´ll need to wait for a better USB chip to come along. I doubt Wavelengh will remain the only async player in the game for a long time. Imo, it´s just a question of time before someone makes a new USB receiver chip with built-in HiFace style firmware. After that Kingwa can use that and apply his analog circuit magic


----------



## volume

Quote: 





vrln said:


> He said in a mail to me that the REF3 / DI are the best he can build right now using USB... I think we´ll need to wait for a better USB chip to come along. I doubt Wavelengh will remain the only async player in the game for a long time. Imo, it´s just a question of time before someone makes a new USB receiver chip with built-in HiFace style firmware. After that Kingwa can use that and apply his analog circuit magic


 

 That would be one awesome DAC.


----------



## Zorlac

Wow, the Audiophilleo1 looks pretty trick, but the price is a little much heh.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





currawong said:


> *The DI doesn't work directly out of my MacBook Pro's USB ports, which is annoying. * I wanted to find out if the USB ports in my hub resulted in a difference to the built-in ones.


 


 Why doesn't it work from the MacBook's ports?
  
  USG


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





zorlac said:


> Wow, the Audiophilleo1 looks pretty trick, but the price is a little much heh.


 

 They make a model 2 without the fancy features for $495, which is the cost of a Halide Bridge.  Nice of them to publish performance specs at least. Manufacturers indeed need to do this with digital gear more often.
   
  I did end up trying the DI on the Cambridge 840C.  I tried comparing optical input to USB (using USB power) via the DI.  I have to say, the 840C has the best quality optical input I've encountered on a DAC so far.  I had trouble hearing any difference.  I had a feeling the music was slightly more musical with the DI, but after a lot of effort, it's below the threshold that I'd consider myself reliable.
   
  I'm thinking that the DI will be a good addition to a mid-range DAC or to a high-end DAC that was designed to be used with a quality transport but the owner wants to use it with a computer as a transport.  The Northstar M192 MK1 I used to own would be a perfect candidate for the DI, for example, as it was ideally designed to work with its matching transport.


----------



## haloxt

Quote: 





vrln said:


> He said in a mail to me that the REF3 / DI are the best he can build right now using USB... I think we´ll need to wait for a better USB chip to come along. I doubt Wavelengh will remain the only async player in the game for a long time. Imo, it´s just a question of time before someone makes a new USB receiver chip with built-in HiFace style firmware. After that Kingwa can use that and apply his analog circuit magic


 

 I speculate that the DI's price/performance may be ideal for most people considering the DI, ref 3, and cd7 all use the same DSP3 technology. Sorry for being so blunt, but a computer can have a LOT of noise, very different amounts in different computers and laptops. If you want a very clean transport, you must look into improving the computer itself, because you can only go so far upgrading the reclocker. I'm not saying people are wrong to want to spend $1000 on a reclocker, but there's a lot of free and almost free ways to minimize the effect of the computer on the audio that ought to be taken if you're trying to make a computer+reclocker compete with a good cd player.
   
  They should give buyers the option to put usb input on the cd7 though , assuming it is cheap to do.


----------



## seaninbrisbane

The DI works on my MacBook Pro's USB with no problem.


----------



## Audio Bling

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> [..]
> Sorry for being so blunt, but a computer can have a LOT of noise, very different amounts in different computers and laptops. If you want a very clean transport, you must look into improving the computer itself, [..] but there's a lot of free and almost free ways to minimize the effect of the computer on the audio that ought to be taken if you're trying to make a computer+reclocker compete with a good cd player.
> [..]


 
   
  [size=10pt]haloxt: stop freakin me out; it’s like we share the same brain![/size]
   
  [size=10pt]True; true; and true..[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]I don’t want to go into the detail of what I have done to “tidy up” my computer transport but it has been significant. And, it has paid dividends. Sometimes I plug my trusty laptop in (as a comparo transport) and can’t believe how awful it sounds. Do people use those things and get anything that resembles music coming out? Ughh..[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]For folk who want to do something to improve their transport then have a look here (http://cicsmemoryplayer.com/). One does not need to take on all the recommendations but can choose what they feel comfortable to implement. At the least, it highlights some of the issues of what makes a computer a good/bad transport. If I was to recommend just a few “tweaks” that worked for me, I would suggest:[/size]
   

 [size=10pt]Implement minlogon[/size]
   

 [size=10pt]Power HDDs separately to mobo[/size]
   

 [size=10pt]Undervolt/underclock mobo/CPU (which apart from reducing RFI allows the mobo/CPU to run fanless)[/size]
   

 [size=10pt]Power P4 (CPU power) with even a cheapie linear 12V supply[/size]


----------



## volume

Quote: 





audio bling said:


> [size=10pt]haloxt: stop freakin me out; it’s like we share the same brain![/size]
> 
> [size=10pt]True; true; and true..[/size]
> 
> ...


 


 Nice recommendations,will test them.


----------



## haloxt

Audio Bling, I was thinking more along the lines of changing the psu to a low ripple one, using external power supplies for some components or get a soundcard with spdif... some tweaks can be too risky to do for people who have never tweaked computer hardware. I would never ever try to make my computer fanless .


----------



## Audio Bling

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> Audio Bling, I was thinking more along the lines of changing the psu to a low ripple one, using external power supplies for some components or get a soundcard with spdif... some tweaks can be too risky to do for people who have never tweaked computer hardware. I would never ever try to make my computer fanless .


 

 Again, we agree! Yes, you are correct: some mods are not for the feint hearted. Your tweaks are very do-able.


----------



## K3cT

I wonder if anyone has compared it to the Halide yet? That one is the top of my candidates mainly because of how practical and convenient the damn thing is.


----------



## Currawong

digger945, if he still has his when the loaner Ref 7 arrives at his place should be able to.  Might be a bit of a wait though.


----------



## K3cT

Quote: 





currawong said:


> digger945, if he still has his when the loaner Ref 7 arrives at his place should be able to.  Might be a bit of a wait though.


 

 Ah, thanks. I will bug him when he receives the DAC. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  anyway, do you have a separate thread for the loaner program already here? I'm looking forward to the impressions.


----------



## Currawong

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/506715/audio-gd-reference-7-loaner-program-usa


----------



## Pacha

Very nice idea you had Currawong. This will definitely give an end to doubts and assessments on Audio-gd being not better than other high-end gear, and we'll really know with which high-end products RE-7 compete with and appreciate even more its value. Nice thing that Kingwa accepted your idea.


----------



## bensl

Quote: 





bensl said:


> i may have missed it (possibilty after 40+ pages!), was there a comparo between this and the firestone bravo?


 

 i take that as a no then?


----------



## lag0a

I've been following this thread and I don't remember one.


----------



## tim3320070

You can get the version B with PSU for about $10 more than the Bravo.


----------



## vrln

I finally managed to do some testing with a NuForce Icon HDP... A fantastic upgrade, clearly better than using the HDP´s built-in USB. Music is much more natural, there´s more air and the piercing highs are tamed. Volume can easily be taken higher than before. Seems like a good way to make it sound more organic. Unfortunately I can´t compare it with my HiFace as the drivers keep crashing within 5 seconds...


----------



## Alexdad54

I've been reading back through this thread but am not sure if there is yet a consensus on whether the DI is an improvement over the stock HiFace. I have a stock RCA HiFace from a netbook with W7 via Foobar/WASAPI feeding a NOS MHDT Havana DAC using a GH coax cable and then on to a KICAS amp and DH-7000's ( also have it going to speakers). I do find the HiFace a bit tipped towards the high end and am wondering if the DI would be a better fit for the system. Appreciate any thoughts. I have never used Audio-GD equipment before but I'm impressed with what I've read about them here on Head-Fi.


----------



## shogo33

Quote: 





alexdad54 said:


> I've been reading back through this thread but am not sure if there is yet a consensus on whether the DI is an improvement over the stock HiFace. I have a stock RCA HiFace from a netbook with W7 via Foobar/WASAPI feeding a NOS MHDT Havana DAC using a GH coax cable and then on to a KICAS amp and DH-7000's ( also have it going to speakers). I do find the HiFace a bit tipped towards the high end and am wondering if the DI would be a better fit for the system. Appreciate any thoughts. I have never used Audio-GD equipment before but I'm impressed with what I've read about them here on Head-Fi.


 

 I found the DI much more natural sounding without emphasising either end of the freq spectrum.  And the DI does benefit from an external psu, at least from my comparisons running it with a tweaked dell xps studio, W7, foobar +WASAPI plugin. A-GD 3SE dac, Weston Acoustics KT66x4, 6SL7x1,SN7x2,5AR4x2 rectifier tubes, Decware DFR8s in DIY backloaded horn speakers.  The external psu brought some added weight to the sound, dynamics of a track was more apparent, IMO


----------



## Nada

Quote: 





shogo33 said:


> the DI does benefit from an external psu, at least from my comparisons


 
  That's good to know, thanks. Im left wondering if this with the Audio-gd "[size=x-small]*Class A * [/size]  *[size=x-small]e[/size]*[size=x-small]*xternal power supply"  *[/size]item or a generic transformer?


----------



## Pluto2

Spent some more time on the DI listening test over the weekend.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Further observation through my ears on the Sony DVD player (DVP-PR50P) vs. modded SB3 vs. DI (USB powered), as they were connected to the Ref 2 DAC and to my Linkwitz Pluto:
   
  DI was good, close to if not at the same level of the modded SB3 (rebuilt with 3 separate regulators, a more precise clock for the added reclock board with pulse transformer out). So, foobar + wasapi + DI indeed can bring out nice quality music, not bad at all, and so no need to go through my elaborated path on the SB3 I think 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  However, the Sony DVD player won slightly.....To me, the music with Sony sounded somewhat fuller, somewhat more dynamic, lively, with deeper and tighter bass, kinda like having a nicer outer envelope in the spectrum, so to speak.... Again, all subjective to my ears with limited auditoning time...(acutally, I wish my SB3/ DI could outbeat the DVD player as CAS is so convenient.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
   
  Oh, I did try putting the Sony via the DI then to Ref2, but not much different....
   
  Keep in mind though all these devices were connected to the Ref2 DAC, which has that DSP-1 inside....as currawong pointed out..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  All in all, a pleasure to own the DI, and I will pay for it


----------



## Dynobot

....double post間違い


----------



## Dynobot

Did anyone happed to try the built in upsampling feature?
   
  Also what about using the coax IN?
   
  And with a linear/regulated powersupply instead of the Class A power supply?
   
  What about testing it with Linux?
   
  Any comparisons besides the Musicland and EA product?  How about comparisons with HiFace, H-Bridge, F-Bravo, any other sub $200 product?
   
  Any difference between the BNC and Coax output?
   
  When Kingwa sends products out for testing does he have any criteria for testing?


----------



## seaninbrisbane

I'm interested in hearing how other Mac / iTunes users have configured their interface.


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





seaninbrisbane said:


> I'm interested in hearing how other Mac / iTunes users have configured their interface.


 

 Looks like Kingwa uses 15 "Testers".  Usually when something is tested there are criteria or specific items to be tested.
   
  Between 15 people there should have been tests on Mac, Windows, and Linux.  Every INPUT should have been tested on each operating system.  Experienced/trusted testers should have been instructed to test each feature of the DSP module.  Everyone should have reported back their findings as well as if there were any special steps taken or required to make the product work.  Also between the 15 testers there should have been comparisons between similar products within its price range.  Otherwise instead of true testing all you are doing is exposing the product.
   
  Linux
  Mac
  Windows
  DSP settings
  INPUTS
  OUTPUTS
  With External Power
  Without External Power
  Compare similar products
  Test various sample rates going IN
   
  Don't just let the first 15 people who want to "try it out" have the product.  As is, there is no real benefit to Kingwa or the buying public.


----------



## haloxt

The original testers all paid for the product. I think the primary thing Kingwa wanted the 15 testers to tell him was whether or not the DI seemed like a good product especially compared to some similarly priced products, and if enough of the testers didn't like it he would've canceled it.


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> The original testers all paid for the product. I think the primary thing Kingwa wanted the 15 testers to tell him was whether or not the DI seemed like a good product especially compared to some similarly priced products, and if enough of the testers didn't like it he would've canceled it.


 

 So the "testers" were not required to provide any actual feedback.  Just if they like it they could buy it before everyone else, if not they could send it back.
   
  Sounds more like exposer than testing.  As far as I can tell the product was not really tested.  Scant feedback, minimal comparisons between comparable products, no testing of the DSP module, every OS was not tested. etc.
   
  Oh well....


----------



## haloxt

I think there's is plenty of information in this thread. You asked about upsampling, it's been tested and also people with audio-gd's other reclockers have played with upsampling. Imo upsampling from 44 to 48khz for me is very very subtle... like a tiny bit more dynamic speed than should be in the recording.


----------



## Dynobot

Great haloxt!
   
  Did you test upsamping with the DSP3 module? or the DSP1?  From the literature the DSP1 offers oversampling, while the DSP3 offers upsampling....so I assume you tried the DSP3.
   
  In that case did you try any other sample rate besides 44 and 48?
   
  I searched this whole thread and could not find that information....testing the DSP3 module with all the sample rates.
   
  Yes there is plenty of information in this thread
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.....I missed the Linux information too
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'm going to have to go back and read more carefully


----------



## haloxt

I have a dsp3. I can only try 48khz with my 16/48khz pmd-100 dac9mk3, I recently gave my dac19mk3 with the 24/94 df1704 to my sister in California so can't test out 96khz upsampling on a revealing dac.
   
  A few others have tried it, and I asked them somewhere in this thread, they said pretty subtle difference.


----------



## tim3320070

I have mine upsampled to 24/96- is there a difference? Maybe, but it's pretty hard to tell. People generally like it better than stock HiFace and Musiland.


----------



## Dynobot

Thanks Guys!!!
   
  Hate to ask if the info is already here....so before I ask any more questions I will go back and read
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Maybe for a couple of hundred bucks I should just buy one and see for myself.


----------



## slim.a

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> I have a dsp3. I can only try 48khz with my 16/48khz pmd-100 dac9mk3, I recently gave my dac19mk3 with the 24/94 df1704 to my sister in California so can't test out 96khz upsampling on a revealing dac.
> 
> A few others have tried it, and I asked them somewhere in this thread, they said pretty subtle difference.


 

 haloxt,
   
  I have found that when experimenting with the SoX upsampling (especially with the Minimum Phases setting) on Foobar, the lower end DACs were the most affected:
  - FUN with WM8740: going from 44.1 to 96 is very noticeable. the WM8740 is too warm and bloated at 44.1 but clears up at 96.
  - FUN with AD1852: going from 44.1 to 96 is noticeable but less than on the WM8740. The AD1852 becomes smoother at 96.
  - DAC19DSP: upsampling to 96 is more dificult to notice. It provides a slightly smoother and thicker sound, a more coherent soundstage but there is a loss in perceived transparency. I would rate the effect as noticeable but subtle.
   
  Upsampling to 96K shifts the "audibility effect" from the oversampling filter to the upsampling filter. If the oversampling filter is good like in the dsp-1, there is no real "benefit" in upsampling (and the effect will be hard to notice if you use a good upsampler). If the oversampling filter is poor or use some sharp roll off filter like in many current DACs, the upsampling can "objectively" improve things.
   
  I really encourage you to try upsampling even with your lower end equipment (Sparrow for example). You might be surprised about what you hear.
  In any case, I will be very curious about your findings whenever/if you get a chance to try it.


----------



## Dynobot

There might also be a difference between the Foobar/SoX [software upsampling] vs. the Hardware Upsampling built into the AudioGD DI device.
   
  So you can get the DI have IT upsample and remove the feature from Foobar.  This way you can save some CPU cycles for only Foobar and let the
  hardware do the heavy lifting.
  
  Quote: 





slim.a said:


> haloxt,
> 
> I have found that when experimenting with the SoX upsampling (especially with the Minimum Phases setting) on Foobar, the lower end DACs were the most affected:


----------



## slim.a

Quote: 





dynobot said:


> There might also be a difference between the Foobar/SoX [software upsampling] vs. the Hardware Upsampling built into the AudioGD DI device.
> 
> So you can get the DI have IT upsample and remove the feature from Foobar.  This way you can save some CPU cycles for only Foobar and let the
> hardware do the heavy lifting.


 

 I agree that there might be differences between SoX and the dsp-3's upsampling. One of the reasons I am curious to try the DI is to see how good their hardware upsampler is.
  Since people using the dsp-1 based dacs described the DI upsampling as subtle, I am assuming it is good thing.
  If I can have similar results with hardware upsampling vs. SoX, I will definitely go the hardware route (when needed) as it will indeed save CPU cycles


----------



## haloxt

Quote: 





slim.a said:


> I really encourage you to try upsampling even with your lower end equipment (Sparrow for example). You might be surprised about what you hear.
> In any case, I will be very curious about your findings whenever/if you get a chance to try it.


 

 Hmm I'll try it with my compass sometime this week, can't with sparrow because I gave it to a friend for his restaurant. Don't count on me for detailed impressions though hehe, trying to find differences in upsampling and original format is not really my idea of a good time. I have spent many hours listening for this on my main setup and still feel uncertain, but the way you describe upsampling on dac19 seems to mostly match my experience.


----------



## seaninbrisbane

ATTENTION APPLE POWERBOOK OWNERS (MAYBE OTHERS)!
   
  A few posts back I mentioned that I was unable to get 24/96 to play out of my MacBook Pro using the DI.  After some frustration I plugged the DI into the rear USB port - and hey presto, it worked.  It seems that it isn't a problem with the DI, but a design feature/fault of the laptop.  Check this article out:
   
  http://www.pbcentral.com/news/viewnews.cgi?id=EkEpyllyplnoxETCqp
   
  Hope this helps somebody!


----------



## shadowlord

i received my DI today.
   
  it's a very well built unit. 
  it instantly worked with KS and WASAPI under W7 with foobar.
  hopefully i find some time the next days to evaluate how it compares to my hiface.
   
   
  i have one question though.
  do i need to change jumper settings inside the unit/ what is the factory setting for upsampling? ON or OFF?
   
  i use it with a DAC3 SE any recommended settings ?


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





shadowlord said:


> i have one question though.
> do i need to change jumper settings inside the unit/ what is the factory setting for upsampling? ON or OFF?


 
   
  Looks like number 6=the NO-C setting needs to be in the 1 position which is towards the DSP module


----------



## volume

Quote: 





dynobot said:


> Looks like number 6=the NO-C setting needs to be in the 1 position which is towards the DSP module


 


 What is the reason for changing the setting.


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





volume said:


> What is the reason for changing the setting.


 
   
  I assume that if you change the NO-C setting to 1 the DI's upsampling will be bypassed so what ever you send it will make it through to the DAC.  If you set the NO-C to 0, the DI will upsample or resample what ever you send it to the appropriate settings based on the MMD0 and MMD1.  If the picture shows the 'default' setting then the upsampling feature of the DSP3 is being bypassed.


----------



## Alexdad54

Perhaps I'm mistaken but the Audio-GD DI website page has this re the default setting: "[size=x-small]In default setting, its output is the original sampling". Would that not mean that the unit arrives set for no upsampling?[/size]


----------



## volume

Quote: 





alexdad54 said:


> Perhaps I'm mistaken but the Audio-GD DI website page has this re the default setting: "[size=x-small]In default setting, its output is the original sampling". Would that not mean that the unit arrives set for no upsampling?[/size]


 


 That is what I felt was right.


----------



## Currawong

Nothing from Audio-gd upsamples by default. The only thing that did, the Reference 3, did so at the request of some Chinese customers from memory.


----------



## jameswuexo

Did anyone try DI with USB3.0 jack?  
   
  It seemed my Hiface can't work on my new desktop.... 
   
  That really bothered me because I have too many USB devices..


----------



## Dynobot

USB 3 only allows more bandwidth.....as it stands USB 2 is more than enough


----------



## shadowlord

I tried my DI in my main system first were it worked fine! (Win7- Foobar - WASAPI or KS - DI)
   
  I then tried it in my second rig which still runs on XP and there i can't get KS to work.
  It only works with DS? ( Win XP - Foobar - KS/DS - DI)
   
  anybody else had problems with XP ?


----------



## leeperry

> Originally Posted by *shadowlord* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I then tried it in my second rig which still runs on XP and there i can't get KS to work.


 

 XP requires drivers for KS...but if you leave all the sliders maxed out, DS is bit-perfect on XP SP3.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Any comparisons with the halide bridge yet?


----------



## tranhieu

Has anyone opened up the psu and have a peek inside to know what kind of psu it is? I've been thinking about building my own one, 75$ is a quite a lot, considering the class A thing I doubt that would make much difference compared to a non-class A one.


----------



## volume

Quote: 





tranhieu said:


> Has anyone opened up the psu and have a peek inside to know what kind of psu it is? I've been thinking about building my own one, 75$ is a quite a lot, considering the class A thing I doubt that would make much difference compared to a non-class A one.


 


 There was a paicture on audio-gd's website.


----------



## Dynobot

This might be a good choice for a power supply - Linear Regulated $11 bucks...edited to the correct walwart....*another edit, I emailed Kingwa and he said the 9v 500ma suitable.*
[size=100%] *TRANS,WALL,REG LIN,9VDC/500mA*
 2.5mmX5.5mm,CTR POS,UL/CSA[/size]   
  http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_1953647_-1
   



   
  AudioGD says;
  [size=x-small]It can be powered by USB (The USB must be able to provide 300MA power, standard USB can offer 500MA power) or powered by an external DC power supply (DC5V to 10V, we recommend DC7V/400MA，[/size]


----------



## Alexdad54

I was wondering if I fed the audio from my Oppo DV-983H DVD player to the DI and then to the MHDT Havana DAC would it improve the sound? The Audio-GD website says that this method can improve audio coming from lower-end players and this makes me wonder if its worth the extra cost to get the coax input. The Havana only has single coax and optical inputs so I can't have two coax sources simultaneously. I've tried using a Dayton glass optical cable from the Oppo to the Havana and it wasn't bad but I'm wondering if anyone has tried connecting a DVD player via this method and were there any benefits?


----------



## ninjikiran

Probably not, but you do get a PC interface that is better than onboard spdif's which are often not sample rate variable.  So basically not all is lost if you don't get a boost in performance(or worst a degrade in performance).
  Quote: 





alexdad54 said:


> I was wondering if I fed the audio from my Oppo DV-983H DVD player to the DI and then to the MHDT Havana DAC would it improve the sound? The Audio-GD website says that this method can improve audio coming from lower-end players and this makes me wonder if its worth the extra cost to get the coax input. The Havana only has single coax and optical inputs so I can't have two coax sources simultaneously. I've tried using a Dayton glass optical cable from the Oppo to the Havana and it wasn't bad but I'm wondering if anyone has tried connecting a DVD player via this method and were there any benefits?


----------



## Alexdad54

Thanks, right now I'm using a netbook USB out to a M2Tech HiFace to the Havana DAC but it looks like the DI might be a better option.


----------



## ninjikiran

No sense in ditching the hiface, its more compact.
  Quote: 





alexdad54 said:


> Thanks, right now I'm using a netbook USB out to a M2Tech HiFace to the Havana DAC but it looks like the DI might be a better option.


----------



## Alexdad54

True but I find it a bit bright in my system so Ive been attracted to the comments here about the DI's difference in sound compared to the HiFace.
  I am currently awaiting a replacement HiFace from TweekGeek so I'll give it another go first before finally deciding.
  Space is not an issue for me either as I have all my gear on a wide stand and the netbook is just for PC audio and doesn't travel.


----------



## lag0a

From what I've read in this thread, the DI seems to be better than the stock Hiface but not sure about the Jkeny modded Hiface. This is probably the 2nd or 3rd time I have heard the stock Hiface sounding bright and I think the reason being is the use of USB power instead of an external PSU.


----------



## Alexdad54

Quite possible. In doing the math though, the cost of getting the jkenny mod for the HiFace (and possible getting the attenuators he recommends) versus selling the HiFace and then buying  the DI  with PSU, it comes out about even....


----------



## ninjikiran

Quote: 





alexdad54 said:


> Quite possible. In doing the math though, the cost of getting the jkenny mod for the HiFace (and possible getting the attenuators he recommends) versus selling the HiFace and then buying  the DI  with PSU, it comes out about even....


 

 You can get a cheaper wall wart which would perform the same job.


----------



## macrog

Quote: 





ninjikiran said:


> You can get a cheaper wall wart which would perform the same job.


 
  That is yet to be seen. I dislike it when people make blanket statements based on conjecture. If Kingwa designed the power supply to go with his digital interface, it is unlikely that you would be lucky enough to stumble on a wall wart that would perform as well. 
   
  Has anybody experimented with comparing the audio-gd power supply to other power supplies on the Audio-Gd digtal interface?
   
  My digital interface + psu is arriving over the next few days. Unfortunately in new zealand it is hard to find linear power supplies, so I am in no position to compare.
   
  Macrog


----------



## ninjikiran

As long as its a good wall wart(the cheap ebay units probably won't cut it since I would trust them to be more likely to start a fire), unless you still believe in santa or power plugs for that matter? 
  
  Obviously a bad power unit of any kind will make any piece of electronics underperform or not perform at all.
  Quote: 





macrog said:


> That is yet to be seen. I dislike it when people make blanket statements based on conjecture. If Kingwa designed the power supply to go with his digital interface, it is unlikely that you would be lucky enough to stumble on a wall wart that would perform as well.
> 
> Has anybody experimented with comparing the audio-gd power supply to other power supplies on the Audio-Gd digtal interface?
> 
> ...


----------



## leeperry

ninjikiran said:


> you still believe in santa


 

 a lower ripple provides a better SQ...and the higher it is, the more the sound will be bright/harsh/edgy/thin.
   
  you're listening to the PSU, always.


----------



## ninjikiran

Yes but a Linear Regulated PSU can be had at ~half the price.  Especially if it were a DAC/AMP PSU which probably needs to be even more so but I doubt you have to be as crazy with the DI itself which is why it runs on USB power to begin with(which has a computer power supply which is most likely regulated as well).  Personally I trust an external unit more, just on value even if I didn't hear any audible difference.
   
  If you buy the Audio-gd PSU its for peace of mind and convenience.
  Quote: 





leeperry said:


> a lower ripple provides a better SQ...and the higher it is, the more the sound will be bright/harsh/edgy/thin.
> 
> you're listening to the PSU, always.


----------



## leeperry

ninjikiran said:


> Yes but a Linear Regulated PSU can be had at ~half the price.
> 
> If you buy the Audio-gd PSU its for peace of mind and convenience.


 
   
  As usual, there's no specs available for the PSU...which they surely have measured. So w/o someone measuring its ripple and harmonics/noise levels, hard to say. The inner shots look great, though.


----------



## Dynobot

Only thing is the AGD DI PSU should be turned off when not in use.  Its class A and is likely to get hot, I'd just assume buy a L/R walwart and be done with it.  The minute difference in ripple won't make much difference as the DI has its own power filtration inside....which means the DI's power filtration self noise is the true limit.


----------



## borrego

I received my DI (version B) today and it comes with a lot of jumper plugs. Does anyone know how should I make use of it?
   
  My I suppose to open up the DI from the top pannel after unfastening 5 screws? I unfastened the screws and the top pannel doesn't  come loose. Is it glued from inside? I haven't try prying yet.


----------



## tim3320070

Why not just plug it in and listen. Play with the settings after?


----------



## lordearl

yep, I second that motion!  We need reviews of this gadget!


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> Why not just plug it in and listen. Play with the settings after?


 

 I wanted listen to it but unfortunately my NFB1 was not shipped together with the DI and the cables I bought....., it is still being assembled.


----------



## upstateguy

I'm coming in a little late, so I apologize.
  
  Quote: 





jameswuexo said:


> Did anyone try DI with USB3.0 jack?
> 
> *It seemed my Hiface can't work on my new desktop.... *
> 
> That really bothered me because I have too many USB devices..


 

 Why doesn't it work?  Please explain.

  
  Quote: 





shadowlord said:


> I tried my DI in my main system first were it worked fine! (Win7- Foobar - WASAPI or KS - DI)
> 
> I then tried it in my second rig which still runs on XP and there i can't get KS to work.
> It only works with DS? ( Win XP - Foobar - KS/DS - DI)
> ...


 

 Is ASIO4ALL an option with XP?

  
  Quote: 





ninjikiran said:


> No sense in *ditching the hiface,* its more compact.


 

 I already ditched my HF.  I went back to the BCT I was using before the HiFace because, IMO, the 'treble tilt 'of the stock HF caused the tone to be off on instruments and vocals...... and especially the piano.
   
  My problem with the stock HF is that it has too many issues to simply pass it off on some unsuspecting guy, and so, there it sits, in a baggie, in the unused stuff drawer.

  
  Quote: 





alexdad54 said:


> True but I find it *a bit bright *in my system so Ive been attracted to the comments here about the DI's difference in sound compared to the HiFace.
> *I am currently awaiting a replacement HiFace from TweekGeek* so I'll give it another go first before finally deciding.
> Space is not an issue for me either as I have all my gear on a wide stand and the netbook is just for PC audio and doesn't travel.


 

 I found Tweak Geek to be a real stand up company.  They replaced my unit right away and paid the return shipping.  Unlike m2tech, I wouldn't hesitate to buy from Tweak Geek again.

 Even though the replacementFace definitely sounds better than the originalFace it still retains the treble tilt and the "louder sounds better" problem, which IMO creates pseudo-details rather than increased resolution (with the upsampling DACs that a lot of us have).
   
  Sounds like sour grapes?  Well it is, and I'm annoyed with myself that I fell for another FOTM product that didn't work out.
  Quote: 





alexdad54 said:


> Quite possible. In doing the math though, the cost of getting the jkenny mod for the HiFace (and possible getting the attenuators he recommends) versus selling the HiFace and then buying  the DI  with PSU, it comes out about even....


 

 I was under the impression that Kingwa initially said that there was little difference between using the dedicated PSU and USB power.  If that is the case, do you need more than an Elpac?
   
  USG


----------



## Dynobot

The only problem I see with using a DI is...
   
  Case #1---USB out---->USB cable affect--->[DI affect]+[PSU affect]--->Coax cable affect---->Coax IN
   
  Vs.
   
  Case #2---Coax out---->Coax cable affect---->Coax IN
   
  It would be nice to minimize the affects between source and Dac.  The answer to better audio IMO comes from reducing variables not increasing them.  In Case #1 you have 4 variables between the source and the Dac.  Case #2 you only have 1.
   
  In order for Case #1 to be a viable option it must do some major massaging to the digital signal before it reaches the Dac.  Again IMO, every variable has only 2 options, either to degrade the signal or be neutral.  What are the chances that each variable is completely neutral?  Next to none imo.  So what you are really doing is stacking up a bunch of variables to act as a tuning device instead of going for purity.   IMO..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I assume the only thing we are after is a reduction in jitter with USB vs. Coax out from the PC.  [If sample rate is not an issue]
  Do we know that jitter coming from a computers USB is less than the jitter coming from the same computers Coax?
   
  People have compared the DI and other USB-to-Coax interfaces with Asynch models.  There was not a unanimous vote for Asynch, which IMO means Asynch's advantages are only in theory because they do not consistently produce superior results....theoretically reduced jitter or not.
   
  Less is More -but- More is Better is turning into the Audiophile mantra.  We want to reduce jitter by increasing the stuff in the chain.


----------



## ninjikiran

Quote: 





> I received my DI (version B) today and it comes with a lot of jumper plugs. Does anyone know how should I make use of it?
> 
> My I suppose to open up the DI from the top pannel after unfastening 5 screws? I unfastened the screws and the top pannel doesn't  come loose. Is it glued from inside? I haven't try prying yet.


 
   
   
*Stuff you should touch if you desire,*
  NO-C which is jumper 6 enables and disables upsampling
  D0 and D1(MMD0/MMd1?) are used in tandem to choose upsampling mode if NO-C is set to 1.  I think D0 and D1 are 3/4
   
*Stuff you probably should not touch unless you need to.*
  SPDIF I assume enables and disables the spdif input and its #7
  OMDO which is #8 is something I really don't know.  It has something to do with the Tenor chip and custom modding probably(I2S)
   
*Have no idea what the following jumpers do,*
  IM00 - #5
  ATT1 - #1
  ATT0 - #2
   
  Supplement Image from Audio-GD site


----------



## Dynobot

Then by all means we should toggle them to find out....
   

  
  Quote: 





ninjikiran said:


> *Have no idea what the following jumpers do,*
> IM00 - #5
> ATT1 - #1
> ATT0 - #2


----------



## ninjikiran

Don't own the device 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 was just trying to aid the guy.
  Quote: 





dynobot said:


> Then by all means we should toggle them to find out....


----------



## volume

Quote: 





dynobot said:


> The only problem I see with using a DI is...
> 
> Case #1---USB out---->USB cable affect--->[DI affect]+[PSU affect]--->Coax cable affect---->Coax IN
> 
> ...


 


 I had a similar understanding to yours  and argued about increasing the variables,but what we don't understand and was explained that these variables benefit our cause by improving the power to the signal,cleaning it.


----------



## lordearl

Exactly - these variables are all present, whether you use a DAC with an inbuilt USB receiver or Hiface or the Audio-GD DI, etc  What counts is how the variables are implemented.  Of course, even this means nothing except a bunch of numbers until you actually hear the components.
   
  I've just ordered the DI and am going to compare it with my PopPulse Wireless USB interface:
   
http://www.poppulse.com.hk/PopPulse%20PC-Link%202496Khz%20Wireless%20USB%20Digital%20Transport.html
   
  Of course, being wireless...there's probably a lot of jitter, but I'm keep to test for myself to see if it is even possible to HEAR a difference.....


----------



## brianmay

+ 1
   
  and with jkeny battery modded hiface is also very interesting to compare.
   
  Quote: 





mr.sneis said:


> Any comparisons with the halide bridge yet?


----------



## Putzeudel

What drivers come with the device? What options do we have for bit-perfect output with a XP system?


----------



## tim3320070

What exactly is there to "clean" and what variables are introduced that stop the 1's and 0's getting to the DAC that affects SQ? We are talking purely digital signals. If you feel jitter or noise is the result, the DSP3 and power filtering is there for that.
  To the poster above- this is a driverless converter.


----------



## leeperry

putzeudel said:


> What drivers come with the device? What options do we have for bit-perfect output with a XP system?


 
   
  w/ all the windows mixer sliders maxed out, DS and ASIO4ALL will be bit-perfect on XP SP3.


----------



## volume

Even when XP is bit perfect,Vista had better audio capability then XP.


----------



## volume

I presume there are about 20 or more users with a DI now, would you care to post some impressions after all this while.


----------



## Dynobot

What is the purpose for the "USB external RAM" as seen in the pic below???
   
  Also, if you use ONLY the USB input is the internal class A power supply being used??


----------



## Currawong

Buffering the USB input to stop drop-outs and supply the digital data to the DSP I'm guessing.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





currawong said:


> Buffering the USB input to stop drop-outs and supply the digital data to the DSP I'm guessing.


 


  Precisely.
   
  Peete.


----------



## Dynobot

Kingwa said:
   
  It is stock the software of the USB drivers and setting, so it don't need install the software to the PC


----------



## vrln

... which IMO is one of the best things about the DI. It works under any modern operating system, without problems. There are still no Linux drivers for the HiFace, even they they were promised ages ago. And there is no guarantee anyone will maintain the proprietary code either, so for me the "driverless design" was one of the main reasons for buying the DI.
   
  Also just noticed your signature, seems there are quite a few Linux users here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 What distro are you using if I may ask? I used to be all Gentoo/Debian, but these days I love the "just works" Ubuntu the most.


----------



## Dynobot

Good points about maintaining the drivers for Linux....I highly doubt if it will happen. 
   
  After a lot of testing different Linux distros I settled on Lubuntu.  My machines are headless and only used for music so small, light and single purpose is what I was looking for, plus since i am not really code savy it had to be plug-n-play. 
   
  In fact I use Ubuntu Netbook remix for my desktop....I love the layout, very different than your normal OS.


----------



## ninjikiran

Ubuntu Netbook Remix is the best interface/minimalism for the standard document editor/web surfer imo.  Its simple.... 
   
  I actually installed it on someones netbook(had to get a little convoluted in getting it to read/install)


----------



## Dynobot

Yep and as easy an minimal as it seems it can easily be expanded to be as big as you want via the Software Center.  With just a click of the mouse you can install literally any of 32,000 THIRTY TWO THOUSAND + applications.  Skype, MPD, DVD rippers, CD rippers, you name it.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

So... any new comparisons or impressions yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ?


----------



## volume

Quote: 





mr.sneis said:


> So... any new comparisons or impressions yet
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I asked the same.


----------



## Zorlac

I just posted a separate thread about this issue, but do any of you play PC games? If so, does the DI have issues with popping and clicking audio in PC games? My hiFace works perfect for WASAPI audio in Foobar, but constant popping and clicking while playing PC games. If this is an issue only with the hiFace, then I may switch to the DI.


----------



## ninjikiran

Sounds like the DI turning on and off the circuit when there is no stream open.  Which is why in Foobar you hear no pops since its gapless or I think that is the issue.  Where a game is just playing random sound files at random times.
  
  Quote: 





zorlac said:


> I just posted a separate thread about this issue, but do any of you play PC games? If so, does the DI have issues with popping and clicking audio in PC games? My hiFace works perfect for WASAPI audio in Foobar, but constant popping and clicking while playing PC games. If this is an issue only with the hiFace, then I may switch to the DI.


----------



## vrln

I think you misread his post... Imo he meant that the HiFace skips/pops, and is wondering if it is the same with the DI. Personally I couldn´t even use the HiFace due to it not working in Linux and the drivers are still unstable in Windows for me.


----------



## ninjikiran

Quote: 





vrln said:


> I think you misread his post... Imo he meant that the HiFace skips/pops, and is wondering if it is the same with the DI. Personally I couldn´t even use the HiFace due to it not working in Linux and the drivers are still unstable in Windows for me.


 


  I mean Hiface 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Sounds like the most logical problem to me at least.


----------



## daisangen

I managed to sell my STX so I went and ordered the Digital Interface from Kingwa. HiFace was my another choice but I've had enough of craptastic drivers and non-existant support for less-popular operating systems, so I won't be taking the gamble. I also prefer paying for nice gear, not software.


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





daisangen said:


> I managed to sell my STX so I went and ordered the Digital Interface from Kingwa. HiFace was my another choice but I've had enough of craptastic drivers and non-existant support for less-popular operating systems, so I won't be taking the gamble. I also prefer paying for nice gear, not software.


 

 x2


----------



## HeatFan12

Hi guys,
   
  I have tried to keep up with this thread but somehow I'm sure I missed it, if it's been covered.  My apologies...
   
  Just received my DI and I am very pleased, however, WASAPI (Foobar) with it is buggy.  KS, no problems at all.  I usually use KS even in Vista, but like to check every possible output works fine.
   
  Thanks


----------



## Dynobot

Great thanks for the update, I should be getting mine soon.  I'm going to test the upsampling and other switches as well as with the Adum isolator.  I'm going to be using it with Linux, but will also try it out with Mac OS.
  
  Quote: 





heatfan12 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I have tried to keep up with this thread but somehow I'm sure I missed it, if it's been covered.  My apologies...
> 
> ...


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





dynobot said:


> Great thanks for the update, I should be getting mine soon.  I'm going to test the upsampling and other switches as well as with the Adum isolator.  I'm going to be using it with Linux, but will also try it out with Mac OS.


 


 Hi Dynobot,
   
  That's great...Have not opened mine up, just received it a little while ago.  KS is working great.  I'm tapping wireless with a laptop to my NAS upstairs.  They are not dropouts with wasapi, just skipping quite often after a few minutes.  I just plugged it in and Foobar recognized it in the output right away.


----------



## Dynobot

Check your buffer settings under wasapi, it can be picky sometimes.
   
  You might also want to increase the priority of Foobar with wasapi.
   
  These also are a must with Windows wireless...
   
  http://www.wlanbook.com/vista-wifi-60-second-lag-problem/
   
  http://www.martin-majowski.de/wlanoptimizer/


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





dynobot said:


> Check your buffer settings under wasapi, it can be picky sometimes.


 


 This is true, but that was exactly what I was trying to avoid.  On XP when I use ASIO4ALL, I have to move everything.  I plug in a variety of gear to this laptop and have never messed with the buffer.  I used to, but it seems to be a pain (albeit a small one) to change buffer settings from one piece of gear to the other.  With this same laptop, I have been listening to the NFB-3 & DAC-19DSP and they both were "plug and play" no setting adjustments needed.  I was just curious if anyone experienced this issue.  KS works great and the DI sounds very good, so I am just using KS......
   
  Thanks


----------



## Dynobot

Try those two links....they can't hurt and chances are they will help...if not Foobar then they will at least increase your wireless connections.
   
  Another MUST have tool for Windows users....Revo Uninstaller.  It removes every trace of programs so your Windows machine will always run smoothly.
   
  http://www.revouninstaller.com/revo_uninstaller_free_download.html


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





dynobot said:


> Try those two links....they can't hurt and chances are they will help...if not Foobar then they will at least increase your wireless connections.
> 
> Another MUST have tool for Windows users....Revo Uninstaller.  It removes every trace of programs so your Windows machine will always run smoothly.
> 
> http://www.revouninstaller.com/revo_uninstaller_free_download.html


 


 Oops, sorry, I guess I quoted before you posted the links...Thanks,...Looking at them now....That revo looks interesting...
   
  Well, it's not a wireless issue with wasapi.  I have about ten albums on this laptop and it still does it.....


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





heatfan12 said:


> Oops, sorry, I guess I quoted before you posted the links...Thanks,...Looking at them now....That revo looks interesting...
> 
> Well, it's not a wireless issue with wasapi.  I have about ten albums on this laptop and it still does it.....


 

 Thats odd with wasapi but since KS sounds great no need to aggravate yourself with wasapi..
   
  I used Revo when I was trying out all sorts of software with my Windows machine, it cleans out the registry and looks for all traces of programs and lets you remove it.  Essentially it makes it as if you never installed the program at all.  Together with Crap Cleaner and auto defrag my WIndows machine ran like a top...still does.
   
  Have fun with your DI...


----------



## ninjikiran

Yea there is no real significant difference between KS and WASAPI imo.  ASIO has some functionality which might be useful to a small percentage of people, and ASIO4ALL is just awkward and I wouldn't use it ever.
   
  So go with what works~ and don't worry about the rest.  Simplicity at its best.
   
  On a side note using my sound card as transport I need to use a fairly high buffer size(~1000), but if I connect my DAC by USB which I have done just for laughs every so often I need a low buffer size.
   
  Its really really wierd and I could not explain it.  Granted I only have one device connected so I just use my sound card as transport.


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote:


ninjikiran said:


> Yea there is no real significant difference between KS and WASAPI imo.  ASIO has some functionality which might be useful to a small percentage of people, and ASIO4ALL is just awkward and I wouldn't use it ever.
> 
> So go with what works~ and don't worry about the rest.  Simplicity at its best.
> 
> ...


 
  Quote: 





dynobot said:


> Thats odd with wasapi but since KS sounds great no need to aggravate yourself with wasapi..
> 
> I used Revo when I was trying out all sorts of software with my Windows machine, it cleans out the registry and looks for all traces of programs and lets you remove it.  Essentially it makes it as if you never installed the program at all.  Together with Crap Cleaner and auto defrag my WIndows machine ran like a top...still does.
> Have fun with your DI...


 


 Thanks guys...Absolutely....If it works, don't try to fix it....lol.....Curiosity can get you in trouble.....lol
   
  Cheers......


----------



## Nada

Quote: 





heatfan12 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I have tried to keep up with this thread but somehow I'm sure I missed it, if it's been covered.  My apologies...
> 
> ...


 
This topic has been covered and a simple search might have saved yourself some hassle.
   
WASAPI in Foobar is great for getting clean digital out running Vista or Windoze7 for me. The catch for most of us is in the BUFFER SIZE.  It requires a very *small *buffer . If the buffer is left unchanged at above 300ms after selecting WASPI, Foobar plays back as if its in ultra fast forward mode or skipping as if it needs a bigger buffer - this is the trap.
   
Try to put the buffer down to 50-150ms for WASAPI
   
If that doesnt fix it increase the priority for Foobar using control-alt-delete to bring up "Task Manager" => Processes -> Right click on Foobar and set Priority to "High"
   
If your fussy then set your Notebook to turn off the hard drive when you are doing dedicated listening, using Foobar - Preferences - Advanced-Playback-Full file buffering and set all your spare RAM as the stipulated figure. Then in Windows  - Control - Power =- Advanced - turn off your hard drive asap. I think a high end set up might be needed to hear any difference with this tweak but you dont know till you try - your hard drive-notebook might be a noisy combo.
   
Dont stop being curious unless you want to stagnate. Enjoy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
Please let us know exactly what works. Cheers.


----------



## Dynobot

When I used to use Foobar I created a .bat file that when launched would start Foobar with Realtime priorities.  Vista is possible but I think Win7 max is High Priority
   
  cmd /c start /Realtime foobar2000.exe  -or- this might be even better cmd /SEPARATE /c start /REALTIME foobar2000.exe
   
  Use text editor and just copy and past the command in the file and save it as foo.bat in your foobar folder.   <----edit added were to put file.
   
  When you double click it Foobar will start with realtime priorities
   
  More options:
   

```
Options: /MIN : Minimized /MAX : Maximized /WAIT : Start application and wait for it to terminate /LOW : Use IDLE priority class /NORMAL : Use NORMAL priority class /HIGH : Use HIGH priority class /REALTIME : Use REALTIME priority class /B : Start application without creating a new window. In this case ^C will be ignored - leaving ^Break as the only way to interrupt the application /I : Ignore any changes to the current environment. [i] Options for 16-bit WINDOWS programs only[/i] /SEPARATE Start in separate memory space (more robust) /SHARED Start in shared memory space (default)
```


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





nada said:


> This topic has been covered and a simple search might have saved yourself some hassle.
> 
> WASAPI in Foobar is great for getting clean digital out running Vista or Windoze7 for me. The catch for most of us is in the BUFFER SIZE.  It requires a very *small *buffer . If the buffer is left unchanged at above 300ms after selecting WASPI, Foobar plays back as if its in ultra fast forward mode or skipping as if it needs a bigger buffer - this is the trap.
> 
> ...


 


 Thanks Nada,
   
  LOL...I know, I got a little lazy...Was trying to do several things at once before I stepped out for the evening and did not search....You figure after four years I would know better....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  The buffer decrease did solve the issue and for now after about an hour, no stutter....200ms is where I'm at atm.  Good stuff.....
   
  I did some checking with other devices and another laptop and desktop (not DI) and my setting was 990ms across the board and never had stutters with WASAPI (again, I usually use KS, but the more tools the better).  I never had to change it before, that's why the DI surprised me a bit.  A while back I did have to mess with the settings.  But that was when I was tapping wireless downstairs with a laptop, from an external HD attached to a wireless desktop upstairs that had all my music.  Once I went hard-wired (ethernet) from same desktop and shortly after purchased my network drive, all problems went away and never messed with the settings again.
   
  Thanks again guys and good stuff Dynobot....and btw, this little black box is slammin'....Great stuff...Going to move it around with several DACs.  Still connected to the DAC-19DSP for now.


----------



## slim.a

Quote: 





mr.sneis said:


> So... any new comparisons or impressions yet
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   

  I received my Digital Interface 2 days ago. So far I have only listened to it in the following configuration: USB2ISO (usb isolator) - Wireworld Ultraviolet USB cable - Digital Interface (w/ Power supply) - Oyaide DB-510 - DAC19 DSP. I didn’t have time to try any other configuration, so keep that in mind when reading my comments.
   
  Below are some preliminary impressions:
   
  -          Excellent low level details retrieval (similar to the modified Hiface)
  -          Excellent resolution: 24bit material is really perceived as superior to 16 bit equivalent (similar to the modified Hiface)
  -          Big holographic soundstage, excellent imaging, but lacks a little bit in depth in comparison with the modified Hiface
  -          Excellent top to bottom coherency, the timber and pitch of instruments sound very realistic (similar to the modified Hiface)
  -          Very smooth and distortion free treble, excellent transient speed
  -          Very dynamic sounding, perhaps even better sounding than the modified Hiface
  -          Tonal Balance: a little soft sounding at 44.1K and neutral sounding at 96K
  -          Excellent upsampling algorithms (to 96K): No loss in the low level details or naturalness, the tonal balance improves (in my system) and images snap into focus.
   
  Overall, I feel that the Jkeny’s modified Hiface performs at a slightly higher overall performance. The difference is also more noticeable at 44.1 and not so much at 96K.
  However, when it is compared to entry level usb converters (such as the Teralink X2, Musiland), the Digital Interface is a few steps above.
   
  Keep in mind that these are some very early impressions (not enough listening, 20 hours of burn-in) that may change after I get to spend more time listening to various recordings with the DI.
  My only complaint so far is that it doesn’t accept 88.2K.
   
  As a side note, since the first time I listened to Jkeny’s modified Hiface, I have felt that most other converters sounded fake and fatiguing in long term listening. The Digital Interface is the only other converter I have tried so far that seems to be good enough that I don’t feel like I am missing the sound of the modified Hiface when I am not listening to it.


----------



## Newk Yuler

Great and much appreciated to (finally) hear your impressions.
  
  Quote: 





slim.a said:


> I received my Digital Interface 2 days ago.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





slim.a said:


> I received my Digital Interface 2 days ago.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> *.....when it is compared to entry level usb converters (such as the Teralink X2, Musiland), the Digital Interface is a few steps above.*


 
   
  Thanks for the review Slim.a.  It is much appreciated and enjoyable to read.
   
  Realizing that a battery powered transport may be in a class by itself, how does the DI compare to the stock HiFace, which is also one of the entry level converters?
   
  USG


----------



## Nada

Quote: 





slim.a said:


> I received my Digital Interface 2 days ago....... I have only listened to it in the following configuration: USB2ISO (usb isolator) .......impressions:


 

 Slim I want to thank you for posting this great initial impression. Your writing style is excellent. It answers many questions for me and has saved me a lot of time trialling different USB interfaces in my system. 
   
  I wonder if I can ask you to post your impressions of the USB2ISO (usb isolator) - can you just trial it quickly with and without to let us know if it makes any audible difference for you with the DI (which already  has galvanic isolation on the SPDIF out) sometime please?
   
  Cheers mate.


----------



## Pacha

Thank you slim for the review, now I know I won't try the DI myself, I trust you a lot about your descriptions.


----------



## Alexdad54

As a current owner of a stock HiFace I am seriously considering the DI option versus having my HiFace modified into a MK2 (i.e. with built-in battery and charger) from jkeny particularly if, as per slim.a's review, I can get virtually all of the benefits of the modded HiFace without using drivers, etc. and at a lower cost.
  Edit: Mea culpa, I was remiss at not thanking Slim.A for his impressions, I also found them very useful.  Thanks!


----------



## slim.a

Quote: 





newk yuler said:


> Great and much appreciated to (finally) hear your impressions.


 
   
  Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> Thanks for the review Slim.a.  It is much appreciated and enjoyable to read.
> 
> Realizing that a battery powered transport may be in a class by itself, how does the DI compare to the stock HiFace, which is also one of the entry level converters?
> 
> USG


 

  
  Quote: 





nada said:


> Slim I want to thank you for posting this great initial impression. Your writing style is excellent. It answers many questions for me and has saved me a lot of time trialling different USB interfaces in my system.
> 
> I wonder if I can ask you to post your impressions of the USB2ISO (usb isolator) - can you just trial it quickly with and without to let us know if it makes any audible difference for you with the DI (which already  has galvanic isolation on the SPDIF out) sometime please?
> 
> Cheers mate.


 

  
  Quote: 





pacha said:


> Thank you slim for the review, now I know I won't try the DI myself, I trust you a lot about your descriptions.


 

 Thanks for your comments guys. Much appreciated.
   
  @ upstateguy: I don't have the stock Hiface anymore so all I can do is extrapolation on how both the DI and the battery powered Hiface compared to the Teralink X2 relative to the Hiface.
  To make it simple I would consider that the Teralink X2 and Stock Hiface are in the same class (I personally prefered the stock Hiface) and that the DI and modified Hiface seem to be in the same class (I have no strong preference at this point as I could live with either).
   
  @Nada: I am currently finishing writing the second part of the USB to spdif shoot out thread (see here). I am planning to post there amongst other things my impressions on the USB2ISO in order to not derail this thread which is aimed at the A-GD Digital Interface. I should post the full review of the DI as well as my impressions on the DI on the other thread in the next few days. I will post the link for those who are intersted when it is done.


----------



## dmac03

Quote: 





daisangen said:


> I managed to sell my STX so I went and ordered the Digital Interface from Kingwa. HiFace was my another choice but I've had enough of craptastic drivers and non-existant support for less-popular operating systems, so I won't be taking the gamble. I also prefer paying for nice gear, not software.


 


 I'm in a very similar situation. I've got an STX. I'm very happy with it, but its not quite in the same league as my other equipment.
   
  I am planning on purchasing something along the lines of a re5/nfb1 - ref7/nfb7 (I haven't decided which chip yet). The problem is that I'm not sure if my stx coax out is up to snuff with these dacs.
   
  Is the DI a considerable upgrade from what I already have?


----------



## ninjikiran

Imo it should be as long as the driver implementation allows bit-matching, but the benefit of having an external transport(or a dac with a good USB implementation) is you can dedicate it for music purposes.  Then you can connect the STX directly to your amp and use its game features.
   
   
  Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> I'm in a very similar situation. I've got an STX. I'm very happy with it, but its not quite in the same league as my other equipment.
> 
> I am planning on purchasing something along the lines of a re5/nfb1 - ref7/nfb7 (I haven't decided which chip yet). The problem is that I'm not sure if my stx coax out is up to snuff with these dacs.
> 
> Is the DI a considerable upgrade from what I already have?


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





slim.a said:


> @ upstateguy: I don't have the stock Hiface anymore so all I can do is extrapolation on how both the DI and the battery powered Hiface compared to the Teralink X2 relative to the Hiface.
> To make it simple I would consider that the Teralink X2 and Stock Hiface are in the same class (I personally prefered the stock Hiface) and that* the DI and modified Hiface seem to be in the same class *(I have no strong preference at this point as I could live with either).


 
   
  That's a pretty good recommendation. 
   
  Are you using the DI with usb power, with the Audio gd power source, or a separate wall wart type of power source?  If using  an external power supply, is there much difference between usb power and the external power source?
   
  Thanks
   
  USG


----------



## lag0a

Is any USB->SPDIF device that has asy usb or a pretty good receiver chip like in the DI using an external PSU will produce sounds that are better than a sound card's digital SPDIF output using the computer's PSU?


----------



## FauDrei

Yes.


----------



## Dynobot

Okay just got my DI yesterday.
   
  It works with the ADuM isolator,  my DI is being powered by the Adum's linear/regulated power supply.
   
  Sounds good, the low end is better defined vs standard USB into the Dac...a little more punch.
   
  It will earn its keep if it sounds better than straight coax to the Dac and straight USB to the Dac without any losses.
   
  I still haven't opened it up...mine came with a bunch of black jumpers, I am assuming they are to be used inside for something.  Has anyone used these jumpers????
   
  Edit:  Yes coax from the DI does sound better than the coax from my computer...smoother up top [didn't think that was possible] and still more umph in the low end, even the vocals have more texture.


----------



## Pacha

I guess you now have enough jumpers for lifetime


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





pacha said:


> I guess you now have enough jumpers for lifetime


 


  What do they do????


----------



## Pacha

DSP-3 settings I guess, like on the new version of the DSP-1 like I have, with jumpers.


----------



## tim3320070

Bass is something that seems more apparent since introducing the DI- more palpable and .... just better. I can't be certain it's the DI but I don't remember this kind of depth and definition in my headphones or speakers which have not changed recently.


----------



## Pacha

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> Bass is something that seems more apparent since introducing the DI- more palpable and .... just better. I can't be certain it's the DI but I don't remember this kind of depth and definition in my headphones or speakers which have not changed recently.


 


   In comparison with what other interface?


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





pacha said:


> In comparison with what other interface?


 

 Within this thread there are comparisons between the HiFace and the Taralink, I don't have either but I did compare it to my computers USB and HD Coax out and it is better.  Smoother more refined across the spectrum and better bass.


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





pacha said:


> In comparison with what other interface?


 

 Bel Canto USB Link, but that's been a while.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> Bel Canto USB Link, but that's been a while.


 


  Some info on the chips used in the Bel Canto, Stello and Lindermann usb converters  HERE.
   
  Seems that the Tenor chip does a pretty good job.  The DI is looking very interesting.
   
  USG


----------



## Dynobot

Only difference is look at the internals.


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> Bass is something that seems more apparent since introducing the DI- more palpable and .... just better. I can't be certain it's the DI but I don't remember this kind of depth and definition in my headphones or speakers which have not changed recently.


 

 I agree! I reallly like how the bass sounds with the DI. It is a very natural bass that is very well defined and punchy without coloring the sound.


----------



## Pacha

Stello and Lindemann are awfully expensive. Modified HiFace and DI are a steal in comparison.


----------



## bacardi

has anyone connected the DI to Windows XP machine? Does kernel streaming work with foobar? If not, have you tried asio4all? I'm interested in getting it but i need this info 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 thanks


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





pacha said:


> Stello and Lindemann are awfully expensive. Modified HiFace and DI are a steal in comparison.


 

  
  The Bel Canto is $500 (I got it used for $300) but it was one of only a few that did 24/96 without drivers at the time (but I did not like spending that much on a converter). Maybe the software was a lot of money for them but the hardware can't justify that price can it?
  I think much of the Audio-gd gear can be described as a "steal in comparison".


----------



## lag0a

Dynobot, is the background of the music blacker using the adum isolator and external PSU? So when you described as no lossess earlier between using the adum isolator and DI coaxial setup vs the straight usb or straight coaxial from the computer, do you mean the speed of the music is the same with the same natural flow?


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





lag0a said:


> Dynobot, is the background of the music blacker using the adum isolator and external PSU? So when you described as no lossess earlier between using the adum isolator and DI coaxial setup vs the staright usb or straight coaxial from the computer, do you mean the speed of the music is the same with the same natural flow?


 


  I compared back and forth many times with the Adum in place and without.
   
  WIth the Adum in place on the DI it makes less of a difference than with the Adum in place going straight to the Dac, in fact I would say no difference at all.
   
  With the Adum in place going straight to the Dac there is a considerable amount of haze lifted, vs USB straight to the Dac.
   
  With the DI powered with a regulated/linear supply and USB going into it without the Adum there is just slightly more impact that the DI powered with the USB.
   
  With the DI powered or not vs. straight coax, the DI is clearer and with more of a musical low end than without.
   
  With the DI in place there is no loss at all in any regard vs. either straight USB or straight coax.  In fact there is only a gain in clarity and low end musicality, speed and transients are exceptional with the DI.  Tonal balance remains excellent only haze removed.  With the DI in place the Adum is really not needed.


----------



## Alexdad54

Well,I'm convinced.... Thanks to all the great posts in this thread, I think I now have all the information to give the DI a try. So once I finally receive my replacement stock HiFace it goes on the block......


----------



## bacardi

nobody tried it with windows xp? Also is the extra power supply worth it? Thanks


----------



## Audio Bling

Quote: 





bacardi said:


> nobody tried it with windows xp? Also is the extra power supply worth it? Thanks


 


   I run a XP rig. I have posted a comparo (review) of the DI in this thread.


----------



## bacardi

Quote: 





audio bling said:


> I run a XP rig. I have posted a comparo (review) of the DI in this thread.


 


  ok i just checked it out, thanks


----------



## bearbb

Hi Dynobot,
   
  I noticed that you are using Linux. Do you think linux sound better than win7? I am using win7 since hiface require a driver to run. But if I get DI, I don't need a driver anymore, so I might give linux a try


----------



## bacardi

same here, i was interested in using linux as well, sorry for going off-topic here, but is there a player for linux with capabilities like foobar? Cheers


----------



## ninjikiran

Yep, Amarok is one such player.  Some people force Foobar with WINE but I find that to be a waste of time, and since its running on top of emulation who knows what could be happening to the audio.  Really though Amarok is just a popular example, there is so much more.
   
  In the end it is kind of what you need, if you don't do much on your computer just get a basic/easy to use system like one mentioned earlier in this thread, Ubuntu Netbook Remix(don't need a netbook).  If you want to make a music box look up Dyno's Linux audio guide.  Or if music is your primary focus,  in which case you would probably want to go as minimal as possible but in all honesty I wouldn't recommend it if its your first time with linux.  Its best you learn the Linux file structure and basic command line before you shoot for anything really custom.
   
  I don't have a linux system setup at the moment, but theres a mixer which shouldn't be installed(similar to XP Kmixer).  That way it'll be bit perfect up to the specifications of your hardware/driver.  Or perhaps a way to get rid of it since it probably coems pre-installed in most distributions, on Dyno's blog he recommends Lubuntu which is bare bones.
   
  There are many bare bones distributions out there, each with varying degrees of difficulty to use.  A good site is Distro Watch if you really want to research.   At the same time for most people there are so many different Ubuntu variants that there really isn't much reason to look elsewhere.
   
  We have differences in what we believe effects audio but dynos guides and information is generally informative.  I got the plans up for my own music server with his suggestions and a quick PM.


----------



## bacardi

thanks for the info, very helpful, do you have a link to dyno's blog? I can't seem to find it, cheers


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





bearbb said:


> Hi Dynobot,
> 
> I noticed that you are using Linux. Do you think linux sound better than win7? I am using win7 since hiface require a driver to run. But if I get DI, I don't need a driver anymore, so I might give linux a try


 

 Hi bearbb
   
  To me Linux sounds better and it fits my needs better.  I think someone compared the hiface to the DI here.  Check out My Site lots of background and infor there.


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





bacardi said:


> same here, i was interested in using linux as well, sorry for going off-topic here, but is there a player for linux with capabilities like foobar? Cheers


 


  To me Deadbeef is a player much like Foobar for Linux and it even accepts Foobar's eq settings, you can import them directly into Deadbeef.


----------



## bacardi

awesome, thanks for the information


----------



## slim.a

For those who are interested, I have just wrote a full length review of the DI in comparison thread here: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/503472/the-usb-to-spdif-converters-shoot-out-thread#post_6798131
   
   
  @USG: sorry for the late reply, I wasn't around head-fi much lately. To answer your question, yes I was using the A-gd power source. Its effectiveness will depend on the associated equipment as I explained in more details in the review.
  
  Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> That's a pretty good recommendation.
> 
> Are you using the DI with usb power, with the Audio gd power source, or a separate wall wart type of power source?  If using  an external power supply, is there much difference between usb power and the external power source?
> 
> ...


----------



## Dynobot

Nice thorough review, pretty much mirrors my experience with the DI. 
   
  Now the Million Dollar Question:
   
   
   
*How can the Digital Interface be Modded????*
   

  
  Quote: 





slim.a said:


> For those who are interested, I have just wrote a full length review of the DI in comparison thread here: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/503472/the-usb-to-spdif-converters-shoot-out-thread#post_6798131
> 
> 
> @USG: sorry for the late reply, I wasn't around head-fi much lately. To answer your question, yes I was using the A-gd power source. Its effectiveness will depend on the associated equipment as I explained in more details in the review.


----------



## FauDrei

dynobot said:


> Now the Million Dollar Question:
> *How can the Digital Interface be Modded????*


 
   
  OK, let's see...
   
  DI:

 recapping the 4x1500uF Novers in DI's PSU stage with same or higher values Elnas or Nichicons; bypassing Elnas or Nichicons with Vishay 1837 MKPs
 replacing all 75Ω resistors on SPDIF output, SPDIF input, under DSP-3 and on DSP-3 with Caddock MK-132 75R resistors
 recabling digital inputs/outputs with Illuminati's silver Ohm Aha! hookup cable
 recapping 9x100uF Novers on DSP-3 with same value Nichicon's or Elnas; bypass of each replaced caps with PIOs, Teflons or 1837 MKPs - whichever will fit under or on the side of DSP-3
  DI's PSU:

 recapping the 4x1500uF and 3x 100uF Novers in DI's PSU with same or higher values Elnas or Nichicons; bypassing bigger Elnas or Nichicons with Vishay 1837 MKPs
 swapping 8x MUR460 diodes with Fairchild "Stealths" 4A 600V or similar ultrafast ultrasoft recovery HEXFRED diodes
  or

 ditching DI's PSU alltogether and getting 3x A123 LiFePO4 batteries and putting them in series in a nice enclosure with appropriate charger and switch (a'la JKenny); connect such battery enclosure to DI with 20 AWG UPOCC silver in teflon cable
   
  Where do I collect my million?


----------



## Dynobot

Hey those are some great ideas!
   
  Oddly enough, the power source had little affect on the DI.  Perhaps adding a bit of clarity vs. the softness slim.a spoke about in his review.
   
   
   
   
  Quote:


faudrei said:


> OK, let's see...
> 
> DI:
> 
> ...


----------



## K3cT

It's interesting how even interfaces have their own sound signatures...


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





k3ct said:


> It's interesting how even interfaces have their own sound signatures...


 

 Yes, and I don't know if that is good or bad.
   
  Ultimately you would want to reduce the number of signatures and/or only introduce transparent links into the audio chain.  As far as signatures go I would say the DI is mostly transparent esp. when powered.  It only seems to remove grunge from the digital signal and not really impart its own signature.
   
  This too is why I really did not want to use any sort of DI if I could help it.  The process involves adding yet another digital cable into the system [a usb and a coax] vs. just using one.  As a way around this I am going to try to use a very, very short USB cable, say less than 6".


----------



## K3cT

It's a bit worrying because for now, the interface I've tried so far (Musiland 01USD) didn't make a difference with my γ2 but the time will come when I want to upgrade and then I will have to face this dilemma again. I'm definitely considering something with built-in asynchronous USB like the PerfectWave or Wyred4Sound DACs to save myself the hassle.


----------



## Dynobot

If you read the reviews of Asynch devices and Dacs they don't seem to hold a distinct advantage over non-Asynch devices and Dacs.  For example slim.a compared a "Modded" Hiface to a stock Digital Interface and preferred the Digital Interface with his gear.  To me, this means that a stock HiFace Asynch device would clearly not be better than the stock Digital Interface which is not Asynch.  The same holds true to Asynch Dac's when compared to non-Asynch Dac's, there is not a clear distinct advantage in sound just by going Asynch.  It appears that the clear benefits of Asynch only pan out moderately in real world applications. 
   
   
  Quote: 





k3ct said:


> It's a bit worrying because for now, the interface I've tried so far (Musiland 01USD) didn't make a difference with my γ2 but the time will come when I want to upgrade and then I will have to face this dilemma again. I'm definitely considering something with built-in asynchronous USB like the PerfectWave or Wyred4Sound DACs to save myself the hassle.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Quote: 





k3ct said:


> It's a bit worrying because for now, the interface I've tried so far (Musiland 01USD) didn't make a difference with my γ2 but the time will come when I want to upgrade and then I will have to face this dilemma again. I'm definitely considering something with built-in asynchronous USB like the PerfectWave or Wyred4Sound DACs to save myself the hassle.


 


  Hold on a minute here.  I'm pretty sure the PWD does not have Asynch USB, perhaps the Ayre QB-9


----------



## K3cT

I stand corrected then, Mr. Sneis.


----------



## vrln

Quote: 





bacardi said:


> same here, i was interested in using linux as well, sorry for going off-topic here, but is there a player for linux with capabilities like foobar? Cheers


 


  Beep-media-player is pretty good too, it´s a spiritual successor to XMMS (aka Winamp clone). Getting bitperfect audio in Linux is easier than in Windows by the way. All modern distributions use the ALSA sound system, and if you are using a player that can listen directly to it, then it will be automatically bitperfect as it won´t go through any mixer. The downside is that you can´t have many audio sources open then, but that is always so with bitperfect playback (ie, the reason why there are mixers in the first place).
   
  Short answer: use XMMS, Beep-Media-Player or any other that has support for direct ALSA playback and you will have bitperfect audio much easier than in Windows 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 IMO Linux music players are also faster due to better memory management, it´s a fantastic platform for audio.


----------



## realmassy

Has any of you tried the coax input on the DI?
  I'd like to use it as 'anti-jitter' interface between the Sonos player and the dac
  Can someone try the DI between a cd player and a dac?


----------



## Currawong

realmassy: I did, between my cheap, old CD player and the Reference 1 and it certainly made an improvement. I'd bought the CD player when my Audiotrack Prodigy Cube died and I was desperate to be able to use the Ref 1, as the Northstar simply sounded horrid afterwards.  However, I had always felt that the music sounded a bit lifeless playing CDs with it.  This was one and a half years ago or more before any of this stuff was a big deal.  There isn't a huge difference between transports with the Reference 1 as Kingwa said originally, but the difference ends up being a niggling feeling that something isn't right. So I did pull everything out and sit down and test the DI, using USB power (they forgot to send me the PSU) using that CD player.  The main difference with the DI in the chain rather than direct from the CD player was instruments sounding less wooden and more real, basically.  I need to repeat the experiment once I get the PSU, however.  I did also try it with the Cambridge 840c, but that has an excellent DSP with which I can't detect any difference whatever I plug in, even optical direct from my MacBook Pro.


----------



## realmassy

Thanks Currawong, much appreciated!
  And a very good news, considering the Ref.1 comes with DSP and you're still be able to hear differences using the DI.
  Can you also confirm you can disable upsampling on DI, so I'll be able to use it with a NOS dac (with 16/44.1 input)?
   
  In that case I'm going to place my order


----------



## FauDrei

While we are at it...
   
  Curra, can you draft few words to describe the  sound difference between 840c and RE-1?


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





faudrei said:


> While we are at it...
> 
> Curra, can you draft few words to describe the  sound difference between 840c and RE-1?


----------



## FauDrei

Massy, in default DI settings upsampling is disabled.


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





faudrei said:


> Massy, in default DI settings upsampling is disabled.


 

 perfect, so I don't have to change anything


----------



## Dynobot

I have a question....
   
   
  With everything disabled what does the DSP3 chip do???


----------



## FauDrei

...buffer & reclock I suppose.
   
  ...and convert from USB to SPDIF (if you are using USB input).


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





faudrei said:


> ditching DI's PSU alltogether and getting 3x A123 LiFePO4 batteries and putting them in series in a nice enclosure with appropriate charger and switch (a'la JKenny); connect such battery enclosure to DI with 20 AWG UPOCC silver in teflon cable


 

 That's an interesting idea. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
   
  Which A123 LiFePO4 battery would you suggest?  If you used a switch to go from battery power to the charging unit, is there any reason why the DI wouldn't automatically revert to USB  power when the switch was thrown? 
   
  Also, if the power requirement is +5-10V, do you think there would be a sonic advantage to using more power than the USB provides?
   
  USG


----------



## FauDrei

upstateguy said:


> Which A123 LiFePO4 battery would you suggest?  If you used a switch to go from battery power to the charging unit, is there any reason why the DI wouldn't automatically revert to USB  power when the switch was thrown?
> Also, if the power requirement is +5-10V, do you think there would be a sonic advantage to using more power than the USB provides?


 
   
  I do not understand your A123 question. Any A123 from trustful source.
   
  DI has "power selector" switch which has two states: USB and DC IN. LiFePO4 "PSU" would be connected to DC IN input. When you would put LiFePO4 "PSU" in charging mode you would also have to flick the power selector switch to USB power, so no automatic reverting. That is - if you do not intend to completely disassemble and redesign PSU stage inside DI.
   
  More power? You mean higher voltage? Well 3x A123 in series equal 9,6V and they can give some serious Amperes when needed. You could pass by even with two A123s (6,4V) which could perhaps even be better because it is closer to KingWa's optimal supply specs of his external PSU which gives 7V and 0,4A.
   
  When going USB, USB gives 5V and KingWa states DI uses 0,3A out of max. possible 0,5A. Using dedicated powered USB socket or dedicated powered USB hub would be wise (no other devices connected to that socket/hub).


----------



## Dynobot

When I emailed Kingwa about what type of external power supply I could use, giving him a couple of choices I had in mind he said that 9v 500ma would be good.  So I went ahead and ordered a Linear/Regulated 9v 500ma PSU.  I can also use the same PSU with my Adum for USB power.  Either way according to AGD the power from the USB or external will feed the same power board, class A transistors.  Which probably is why I could not really hear a difference when I power the DI through USB or External.  Also it must have pretty good galvanic isolation because the Adum really makes little difference with the DI.


----------



## Alexdad54

Quote: 





dynobot said:


> When I emailed Kingwa about what type of external power supply I could use, giving him a couple of choices I had in mind he said that 9v 500ma would be good.  So I went ahead and ordered a Linear/Regulated 9v 500ma PSU.  I can also use the same PSU with my Adum for USB power.  Either way according to AGD the power from the USB or external will feed the same power board, class A transistors.  Which probably is why I could not really hear a difference when I power the DI through USB or External.  Also it must have pretty good galvanic isolation because the Adum really makes little difference with the DI.


 
  Can you provide a link to the PSU you ordered?
  thanks.


----------



## Dynobot

Nothing special.
   
  http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_1953639_-1
   
  Quote: 





alexdad54 said:


> Can you provide a link to the PSU you ordered?
> thanks.


----------



## Alexdad54

many thanks.


----------



## lag0a

What's the difference between a linear regulated PSU and a Class A PSU?


----------



## ninjikiran

Quote: 





lag0a said:


> What's the difference between a linear regulated PSU and a Class A PSU?


 


  Linear - Straight Line, Regulated - To control.
   
  In short, it supplies voltage as a constant.
   
  I didn't know what class-A was until I found head-fi though.  From my understanding class A means the component never takes a rest, its constantly on.


----------



## Alexdad54

From the glossary on the Audio Concepts website:
*Class A* operation is where both devices conduct continuously for the entire cycle of signal swing, or the bias current flows in the output devices at all times. The key ingredient of class A operation is that both devices are always on. There is no condition where one or the other is turned off. Because of this, class A amplifiers are single-ended designs with only one type polarity output devices. Class A is the most inefficient of all power amplifier designs, averaging only around 20%. Because of this, class A amplifiers are large, heavy and run very hot. All this is due to the amplifier constantly operating at full power.The positive effect of all this is that class A designs are inherently the most linear, with the least amount of distortion.
   
  Am I right in assuming that the lower power of the PSU for the DI means it runs a lot cooler?


----------



## Dynobot

In my case the DI's internal "Class A" power supply is being fed by power that is regulated and is linear.  As supposed to unregulated / switching [A/C alternating current] house current for a power amplifier for example.  After the DI gets is power there will likely be more regulation and filtration going on inside the DI's own circuitry [power supply].  Either way the DI will get [direct current] D/C from some source, switching [as in the case of most walwarts] or linear and the D/C may or may not be regulated before it gets to the DI.  In my mind having it regulated before it even gets to the DI will make the DI's job a lot easier and hopefully benefit the overall sound.  One other benefit I am hoping to obtain is cleaner power than that from a PC USB source, which will likely carry all the PC's nasty noises etc.


----------



## Dynobot

Just for kicks I am going to try one of these 1ft cables that connects to the mother board for USB.  I dont know if it will make any difference but I have read that shorter USB cables are better in terms of jitter.


----------



## lag0a

This will be interesting. The signal powered from the motherboard's front usb connector using the cpu's PSU to send a signal to the DI. I think for PC as source there are too many variables to consider that would affect the sound or introduce jitter (Learned a lot from cics). The music player should be used in real time mode, ran in memory with hopefully ram with lower cycle time, motherboard's ability to relay the signal, how each component can be powered independently, and an isolated usb if using usb-spdif (but I don't think that matters much since the signal sent can't be that strong and use that much power plus it helps since the DI has a small isolation transformer to clean the signal and hopefully it is big enough for non-current limiting). There are more variables I'm sure. This is different from just sliding a CD disc into a CD Player with its own moving parts and variables. I won't go to the extremes with PC as a source because of the cost and the hassle but just looking for the right sounds coming from my headphone. I have tried different configurations and I can now tell when it doesn't sound right.


----------



## Dynobot

Actually the only difference between this method and the standard USB connection method is the length of the cable and of course the cable itself.  Either way USB will come from the MB either from the rear USB port or from the MD tap itself....no difference there in quality. 
   
  The USB will be powered through the Adum USB isolator like always which is totally separate from the computer psu.  I too read cics recommendations and actually applied some to my bios.  I am using Linux so his other software tweaks etc. do not apply.  But fwiw I am running real time, not just the music software but the os itself as Linux has a realtime kernel.  Also something else that windows cant do is actually instruct how the packets of music data will be processed and sent out.  Mine is explicitly real time, no buffer of any sort....which reduces jitter considerably.  I used IBM's methods to further reduce os jitter
  http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/wikis/display/LinuxP/OS+Jitter+Mitigation+Techniques#OSJitterMitigationTechniques-WhatisOSjitter%3F
  as well as alsa methods to reduce audio latency in realtime mode.
  http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Low_latency_howto
  And another tutorial to make the CPU process all requests in realtime mode with the lowest latency
  http://subversion.ffado.org/wiki/IrqPriorities
   
  Only thing left to do is to power the hd off of a separate psu [which I have waiting to be hooked up].
  Quote: 





lag0a said:


> This will be interesting. The signal powered from the motherboard's front usb connector using the cpu's PSU to send a signal to the DI. I think for PC as source there are too many variables to consider that would affect the sound or introduce jitter (Learned a lot from cics). The music player should be used in real time mode, ran in memory with hopefully ram with lower cycle time, motherboard's ability to relay the signal, how each component can be powered independently, and an isolated usb if using usb-spdif (but I don't think that matters much since the signal sent can't be that strong and use that much power plus it helps since the DI has a small isolation transformer to clean the signal and hopefully it is big enough for non-current limiting). There are more variables I'm sure. This is different from just sliding a CD disc into a CD Player with its own moving parts and variables. I won't go to the extremes with PC as a source because of the cost and the hassle but just looking for the right sounds coming from my headphone. I have tried different configurations and I can now tell when it doesn't sound right.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





dynobot said:


> Only thing left to do is to power the hd off of a separate psu [which I have waiting to be hooked up]


 

  If the USB is powered through the Adum USB isolator, why do you want to power the HD separately?  What about the video card?  (not understanding)
   
  USG


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> If the USB is powered through the Adum USB isolator, why do you want to power the HD separately?  What about the video card?  (not understanding)
> 
> USG


 
   
  What about the video card??
   
  No video card...its a headless computer which has video integrated into the motherboard and switched off in bios.
   
  Why power the hd separately??? 
   
  In fact just yesterday I ran my HD with a separate Pico power supply to test it out, I could hear no difference at all.  I made a make shift hard-wire on switch to take the place of the computer power button to turn it on, it worked without a problem.  Only problem is/was that powering the mb and hd separately means power on/off is not in sync so you have to manually just pull the plug so-to-speak.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





dynobot said:


> What about the video card??
> 
> No video card...its a* headless computer* which has video integrated into the motherboard and switched off in bios.
> 
> ...


 


*Headless computer,* I never heard that term before.  How do you work with it if the video is switched off? 
   
  I tried taking the case fan off the mb on one of the Shuttles I built, but I'm not sure I could hear a difference either.
   
  USG


----------



## alamakazam

anyone know the latest jumper settings?


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> *Headless computer,* I never heard that term before.  How do you work with it if the video is switched off?
> 
> I tried taking the case fan off the mb on one of the Shuttles I built, but I'm not sure I could hear a difference either.
> 
> USG


 

 How do I work with it???
   
  Simple I turn it on [actually it stays on] it connects to the internet and starts the music player by itself and I control it in one of two ways.  See Below.
   
  Minion via Firefox or stand alone from another PC



   
  OR
  From an iTouch with MPod


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





dynobot said:


> How do I work with it???


 

 That is too cool. 
   
  I'll have to send you a PM  because this is off topic.....  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  USG


----------



## ak622

For anyone that's ordered a DI from Audio-GD, how long did it take before build and ship from when the payment was made?


----------



## fengshenwee

When I order last time, some components was out of stock. Then they promise to send like 20 days later. Then the sending date happen to be their National day and the shipping was further delayed. So took more than 1 month to reach me. Normally should be take 2 weeks to reach u
   
  I heard the upsampling was quite good for the DI. Would love to try. How to set it to upsampling mode? Anyone can help?


----------



## spookygonk

Quote: 





dynobot said:


> No video card...its a headless computer which has video integrated into the motherboard and switched off in bios.


 
  Sounds cool, is there a thread about setting one of these up, or would you consider telling more about yours?


----------



## Dynobot

I don't want to corrupt this thread, info about mine is on my site.  Otherwise I can answer a PM.
   
   
  Thanks


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





fengshenwee said:


> I heard the upsampling was quite good for the DI. Would love to try. How to set it to upsampling mode? Anyone can help?


 

 I tried upsamping you can follow the pin guide from the audiogd web site, just click on the DSP for pin settings.  Alternatively he will likely send you jumpers that can be put into place instead of sliding the pins.
   
  The pin settings are also shown in this thread.


----------



## ak622

Thanks for the response fengshenwee.  Out of curiosity of using a USB -> SPDIF device and trying high-res music, I bit the bullet and purchased one today.  This will replace my SB3 as a digital transport to the NorthStar DAC.  I am interested in hearing how it performs and if there are any improvements.


----------



## fengshenwee

lol since u already made the purchase, u will be able to find out yourself. I am comparing the DI with my Ref 8 optical in here. I find the DI makes the sound more natural, refined and deeper lows. But there are many variables here. Could be my optical cable not good enough. My usb cable and coaxial cable also affecting the results.


----------



## ak622

Similar to you, I got an email saying that they don't have it in stock and won't be getting any till the 25th.  So I have a feeling that it will take a while before I get it.  Oh well, thats okay, I'm not in a rush anyways.  It'll just be interesting to play around with it and figure out what all this USB->SPDIF hoopla is about.


----------



## ninjikiran

Quote: 





ak622 said:


> Similar to you, I got an email saying that they don't have it in stock and won't be getting any till the 25th.  So I have a feeling that it will take a while before I get it.  Oh well, thats okay, I'm not in a rush anyways.  It'll just be interesting to play around with it and figure out what all this USB->SPDIF hoopla is about.


 


  Well its better than most onboad spdif/toslink's, and even most onboard sound cards(my onboard audio on my high end motherboard is no where near bit perfect for instance, it goes through some kind of software or hardware before spitting from the spdif).  Its simple to plug and play, and works on a standard driver that will be around long as computers exist on any platform.
   
  Meaning it will be as easy to use in Linux as it is in Windows. 
   
  Only real limitation is 88.2khz content which may or may not be important to you.   So the hooplah is that USb--->Spdif are clean transports, probably overpriced but most things in the audio world are.  This is tame in comparison


----------



## ak622

Well i've been using a SB3 as a transport so I never used a SPDIF from my MB or anything.  Oh well, I'm not in a rush and I don't have any hi-res music.  All my files are FLAC ripped from CDs.  oh well, guess we're both waiting a bit.


----------



## ninjikiran

Quote: 





ak622 said:


> Well i've been using a SB3 as a transport so I never used a SPDIF from my MB or anything.  Oh well, I'm not in a rush and I don't have any hi-res music.  All my files are FLAC ripped from CDs.  oh well, guess we're both waiting a bit.


 


  Well the SB3 as a transport for all intents and purposes is supposed to be really good, supposedly it has low jitter and a good clock.  Even though its using a really inefficient ether interface.
   
  Besides providing an interface which is nice especially if you have a headless computer.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





ninjikiran said:


> Only real limitation is 88.2khz content which may or may not be important to you.   So the hooplah is that USb--->Spdif are clean transports, probably overpriced but most things in the audio world are.  This is tame in comparison


 


  What does the 88.2 limitation mean?  Could you please explain?
   
  Why do you say the DI is over priced?
   
  USG


----------



## ninjikiran

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> What does the 88.2 limitation mean?  Could you please explain?
> 
> Why do you say the DI is over priced?
> 
> USG


 
   
  the 88.2khz limitation is the only real fault with the unit(a problem with most tplug and play based converters due to the tenor chip).  Though its not really a fault for most since most of my music is either 44.1khz or 96khz, nothing really in between. 
   
  I say most things are overpriced, but the DI is rather tame in comparison to other units with his more fair pricing.  You can buy a sound card like the Asus ST for a little more which has more features and it also acts as a fairly advanced digital transport.


----------



## jjinh

Quote: 





ak622 said:


> Similar to you, I got an email saying that they don't have it in stock and won't be getting any till the 25th.  So I have a feeling that it will take a while before I get it.  Oh well, thats okay, I'm not in a rush anyways.  It'll just be interesting to play around with it and figure out what all this USB->SPDIF hoopla is about.


 

 I paid on October the 6th and am waiting for my unit to arrive. I've been checking their consignment page every day!


----------



## ak622

Which version did you get jjinh?  I bought version B, I wonder if they have version A in stock...


----------



## jjinh

Quote: 





ak622 said:


> Which version did you get jjinh?  I bought version B, I wonder if they have version A in stock...


 

 Version B without power supply. I wonder if it'd help if I email them?


----------



## Currawong

They email out tracking numbers just before shipment.


----------



## Caphead78

I am really confused about the consignment page, what is it? I am waiting for an order to ship so should I watch that page in addition to waiting for an email?


----------



## ak622

jjinh, that's what I ordered as well.  Edwin said they won't be getting more in till the 25th so they probably are still ramping up production on them.


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





caphead78 said:


> I am really confused about the consignment page, what is it? I am waiting for an order to ship so should I watch that page in addition to waiting for an email?


 


 You will receive an email right before they ship, like Curra stated.  It will say to wait 24 hours before tracking etc......The consignment is good to check and see all the different products going out, as well as when yours ships...
   
  Hey Cap, will that be your NFB-3 you are waiting for?


----------



## Caphead78

Ahh okay, thanks! and yes, I am just working my way through several Audio-GD threads in anticipation. This digital interface does look nice though. Do you have comparisons somewhere in the thread between the native usb interface on your Audio-GD DACs and the DI?
  
  Quote: 





heatfan12 said:


> You will receive an email right before they ship, like Curra stated.  It will say to wait 24 hours before tracking etc......The consignment is good to check and see all the different products going out, as well as when yours ships...
> 
> Hey Cap, will that be your NFB-3 you are waiting for?


----------



## tim3320070

Kingwa stated to me that the DI was better than the standard USB input on my Ref-8 I ordered, so that's what I did (only $60 more to get the DI with a DAC w/o USB input)...


----------



## lag0a

Is it because the DSP chip used for the USB input in the Ref-8 is not isolated by a transformer and surrounded by the power filtration in the DI? I wonder if it would be better to just have the DI preinstalled into your audio-gd DAC without the coaxial ouputs.


----------



## tim3320070

Good question for Kingwa?


----------



## regal

Has any one tested this unit for bitperfectness via DTS or HDCD tests ?


----------



## Dynobot

So what are the DI users using for a USB cable?
   
  I take it the everyone wants to use a good 75ohm cable from the DI to the Dac, but what about the USB?
   
  Also I am sure everyone is aware that not all USB ports are created equal, some are a lot more busy with interrupts than others they actually sound different.  It would be ashamed not to get the most out of the excellent DI.


----------



## lag0a

Dynobot, did your experiment with using the front USB on a motherboard eliminate most of these interrupts? So overall how does the DI compare to other  high end CD players as a source?


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





lag0a said:


> Dynobot, did your experiment with using the front USB on a motherboard eliminate most of these interrupts? So overall how does the DI compare to other  high end CD players as a source?


 


  Interrupts come from the operating system.  When I use a very short cable connected to the mb at one in and the DI at the other gave very good results, in fact so good that I am now selling my Wireworld Ultraviolet USB cable.  I understand this method my not be practical for most people just because of logistics issues.  What I can tell is a marked reduction in what might be called the affects of jitter.....that would be a much more cohesive sound.  As far as a comparison between a CD source I would have no idea, its been about 10+ years since I had a CDplayer.


----------



## daisangen

I'm using the stock, I trust Kingwa wouldn't throw in stuff that doesn't perform up to his standards.
   
  I've tried several generic and brand cables (not audiophile snake oil brands, though) with my y2 when using usb-power and usb-input, didn't detect a difference in sound.
  
  Quote: 





dynobot said:


> So what are the DI users using for a USB cable?
> 
> I take it the everyone wants to use a good 75ohm cable from the DI to the Dac, but what about the USB?


----------



## vrln

I´ve tried it with a stock cable and a Wireworld Ultraviolet, no difference I could notice...


----------



## Dynobot

Sounds good, thanks for the info


----------



## borrego

Just back from oversea trip and a busy week, today I spent whole afternoon setting up the DI + NFB1 at home.
   
  I encountered many troubles setting up the DI in Windows 7. Using the Windows 7 built-in TE7022 driver result in distortion through WASAPI + Foobar2000 1.1, regardless the buffer size I tried.
   
  I ended up using the latest Teradac X2 driver (dated 15th Sep), and setting the Foobar buffer to 150ms to get acceptably smooth sound and consistency (i.e. sound won't distort after playing 3-4 tracks)
   
  Another lesson I learnt when trying the Windows 7 audio setting was: Never checking more than the default 48kHz frequency in the "Support Frequency" page. It will cause sound drop off and distortion if 44kHz and 96kHz are also checked.
   
  I still think my setup is not optimal as I shouldn't get it to work only with the Teradak driver.
   
  Does anyone know if it is normal? Is there a "reference setup" for using the DI with Windows 7 + WASAPI + Foobar2000 1.1?


----------



## vrln

Definately not normal... I had no problems with Win7 64bit, Foobar 1.1 and WASAPI. Anything below 400ms buffer worked fine. Your experiecne sounds very odd actually, maybe there is some kind of a driver conflict? You would try a Linux LiveCD and see if you get any distortion there. Apparently the Tenor chip is well supported in new kernels.


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote:  





> Is there a "reference setup" for using the DI with Windows 7 + WASAPI + Foobar2000 1.1?


 
  I'd like to know also. I have just installed Windows 7 Professional x64 with foobar2000 v1.1. However, I do not have any sorts of sound drop offs and I have checked both 48kHz and 96kHz as supported formats and I set the default format to 2 channel, 24 bit 96000 kHz.


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote: 





vrln said:


> Definately not normal... I had no problems with Win7 64bit, Foobar 1.1 and WASAPI. Anything below 400ms buffer worked fine.


 
  At what buffer should I set foobar2000? I noticed that the lower the buffer, the faster foobar responds in WASAPI mode.


----------



## ninjikiran

Thats what a buffer is,
   
  Normally USB needs a smaller buffer, why? I don't know why.  All I know is it tends to skip on a higher buffer size.
   
  When outputting by spdif, completely different story.  My sound card spdif needs a higher buffer not to skip.
   
  Larger buffer size means any audio changes need to be buffered in, like digital volume or extra DSP effects added mid stream.


----------



## udailey

Anyone try DSP1 vs DSP3? I read the description but it leaves me a bit lost as to what they actually DO differently.
  Uriah


----------



## slim.a

Quote: 





udailey said:


> Anyone try DSP1 vs DSP3? I read the description but it leaves me a bit lost as to what they actually DO differently.
> Uriah


 


  The DSP1 is a digital filter (oversampling, dithering, filtering...) used with PCM1704 based DACs.

 The DSP3 is a DSP used for USB transports (ref3/DI). Its purpose among other things is to reclock the usb stream and allow the possibility for upsampling.
   
  The DSP3 and DSP1 cannot be compared directly as they serve different purposes. Having the DSP1 in a DAC doesn't mean you can't benefit or don't need the DSP3 in the DI.
   
  In my personal experience, the DSP1's main strength is the quality digital filtering and not its jitter rejection capability. You still need a good transport (whether it is the DI or something else) to get the most from Audio-gd DACs that use the DSP1. The names can be confusing, but there is no direct comparison to be made between DSP1 vs. DSP3.


----------



## borrego

I found the source of my problem this morning. It turns out to be the problem of Foobar2000's replay gain. If I change the replay gain setting, click apply, then there will be distortion and sound drop off. I have to reboot every time if I make change to the replay gain to make it work.
   
  The XLR output of NFB-1 is too strong for my Yamaha A-S2000 amp. I have to apply -7db replay gain in Foobar to avoid clipping. CD player connecting to NFB-1 to A-S2000 amp result serious sound clipping. I am emailing Audio-gd for solution.
   
  The Yamaha A-S2000's input sensitivity is 2.8V. Seems not that far off from the Krell evolution 302 amp


----------



## udailey

Thanks Slim. That clears it up. 
  Uriah
  
  Quote: 





slim.a said:


> The DSP1 is a digital filter (oversampling, dithering, filtering...) used with PCM1704 based DACs.
> 
> The DSP3 is a DSP used for USB transports (ref3/DI). Its purpose among other things is to reclock the usb stream and allow the possibility for upsampling.
> 
> ...


----------



## Marcin_gps

Hello, 
   
  Does the DI support 88.2 and 176.4KHz sample rates?
   
  Greets, 
  Marcin


----------



## ninjikiran

Negative
  
  Quote: 





marcin_gps said:


> Hello,
> 
> Does the DI support 88.2 and 176.4KHz sample rates?
> 
> ...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





borrego said:


> I found the source of my problem this morning. It turns out to be the problem of Foobar2000's replay gain. If I change the replay gain setting, click apply, then there will be distortion and sound drop off. I have to reboot every time if I make change to the replay gain to make it work.
> 
> The XLR output of NFB-1 is too strong for my Yamaha A-S2000 amp. I have to apply -7db replay gain in Foobar to avoid clipping. CD player connecting to NFB-1 to A-S2000 amp result serious sound clipping. I am emailing Audio-gd for solution.
> 
> The Yamaha A-S2000's input sensitivity is 2.8V. Seems not that far off from the Krell evolution 302 amp


 
   
   
  AFAIK the balanced inputs should compensate for the higher V of the balanced outs of the source device. Are you sure you have Foobar and Win 7 audio device set up properly ? Get rid of any and all gain leveling, dsp effect, re sampling etc and go with as simple a setup (in the Win7 machine/Foobar) as possible... get yourself a CDP and use it to feed the DAC to trouble shoot your transport ...if the signal sounds normal thorough that (from CDP SPDIF out to the DAC to the Yamaha amp ) then you know something isn't right with the computer setup.
   
  Peete.


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





pricklely peete said:


> AFAIK the balanced inputs should compensate for the higher V of the balanced outs of the source device. Are you sure you have Foobar and Win 7 audio device set up properly ? Get rid of any and all gain leveling, dsp effect, re sampling etc and go with as simple a setup (in the Win7 machine/Foobar) as possible... get yourself a CDP and use it to feed the DAC to trouble shoot your transport ...if the signal sounds normal thorough that (from CDP SPDIF out to the DAC to the Yamaha amp ) then you know something isn't right with the computer setup.
> 
> Peete.


 

 No replay gain, playback buffer and dsp WAS my previous Foobar setup. Unfortunately now I have to apply replay gain but it seems the DI does not like it too much.
   
  I already mentioned I tried the CD player through coaxle and optical and there were clippings.
   
  Kingwa replied my email and said the NFB-1 output 5V max and my A-S2000 takes 2.8V max. Kingwa suggested to trim the XLR signal to about 2V. Now I am considering buying the TC Electronics Level Pilot. But it may cause effect to the sound.


----------



## Caphead78

"CD player connecting to NFB-1 to A-S2000 amp result serious sound clipping. I am emailing Audio-gd for solution."
   
  I think he has tried the CD player idea already
  
  EDIT: Whoops looks like I was a little late
  Quote: 





pricklely peete said:


> get yourself a CDP and use it to feed the DAC to trouble shoot your transport ...if the signal sounds normal thorough that (from CDP SPDIF out to the DAC to the Yamaha amp ) then you know something isn't right with the computer setup.
> 
> Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

2.8V must be for RCA inputs (Yamaha integrated)..a balanced input should be min of 4V and likely for headroom's sake around 5.8V. Something isn't right...do you have another integrated amp you can test with or try the RCA outs of the NFB-1 and a RCA input on the Yamaha ? Ive tried my various A-gd peices of kit with a fair number of amps (both balanced and single ended) and none of them had preamp overload/clupping issues (being fed from the RE1's outputs, RCA/XLR).
   
  Peete.


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





pricklely peete said:


> 2.8V must be for RCA inputs (Yamaha integrated)..a balanced input should be min of 4V and likely for headroom's sake around 5.8V. Something isn't right...do you have another integrated amp you can test with or try the RCA outs of the NFB-1 and a RCA input on the Yamaha ? Ive tried my various A-gd peices of kit with a fair number of amps (both balanced and single ended) and none of them had preamp overload/clupping issues (being fed from the RE1's outputs, RCA/XLR).
> 
> Peete.


 

 I didn't mean it is the problem of the NFB-1. It is more of the problem of my A-S2000 amp as its XLR inputs are meant for its own CD-S2000 SACD player (i.e. not standard). It seems that the CD-S2000 XLR output aren't that hot.
   
  I have both the service manual of the Yamaha amp and it still doesn't say whether 2.8V is for RCA or XLR. Base on my experience so far it seems to be for both.
   
  I have fed the NFB-1 RCA output to my A1 clone headphone amp in the office and it was working fine with no clipping.
   
  I think I will buy the TC Electric Level Pilot passive volume knob (http://www.tcelectronic.com/levelpilot.asp) . I like the Yamaha amp enough to keep using it.  The Audio-gd C500 is nice but it is too hugh in size. I once asked Kingwa wthether he would make a C250 but he wasn't interested
   
  For the DI: I think it just does not like Foobar replay gain setting.


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





borrego said:


> I think I will buy the TC Electric Level Pilot passive volume knob (http://www.tcelectronic.com/levelpilot.asp) .


 

 I have one, it works great...smooth precise volume adjustment with no degredation in sound.


----------



## ak622

Has anyone who was informed that they would be in stock/shipped on the 25th received anything yet?  I know its still the 25th but I'm sure there are a few here who are waiting and I just wanted to know if anyone has heard anything yet.


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





borrego said:


> I think I will buy the TC Electric Level Pilot passive volume knob (http://www.tcelectronic.com/levelpilot.asp) . I like the Yamaha amp enough to keep using it.  The Audio-gd C500 is nice but it is too hugh in size. I once asked Kingwa wthether he would make a C250 but he wasn't interested


 
   
  Quote: 





			
				Dynobot said:
			
		

> I have one, it works great...smooth precise volume adjustment with no degredation in sound.


 
   
  I email Kingwa the circuit diagram of my Yamaha A-S2000 and asked him if the TC Level Pilot would cause sound degrade. He checked and told me there will be -3db at 500kHz if I add 3kohm to the input impedance (the Level Pilot is a 10kohm potential meter). Which is pretty neglegible. Kingwa said it would depend on whether there is a low pass filter at the output amp though.
   
  Back to the DI, I still experience sound drop-off in the first 5 mins after Windows startup in Foobar. May be Windows was still busy loading things in the first 5 mins. Increasing the Foobar buffer to 300ms helps a bit. I hope the TC Level Pilot would come earlier so I can uncheck the replay gain in Foobar2000


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





borrego said:


> I email Kingwa the circuit diagram of my Yamaha A-S2000 and asked him if the TC Level Pilot would cause sound degrade. He checked and told me there will be -3db at 500kHz if I add 3kohm to the input impedance (the Level Pilot is a 10kohm potential meter). Which is pretty neglegible. Kingwa said it would depend on whether there is a low pass filter at the output amp though.


 
  Oh well....I guess a -3db dip in Ultrasonic frequency [500khz] would be bad, but I can hardly hear past 20khz
   
  -or-
   
  Perhaps he was talking about 500hz.....which I doubt because a -3db dip at 500hz would be clearly audible.


----------



## jjinh

Quote: 





ak622 said:


> Has anyone who was informed that they would be in stock/shipped on the 25th received anything yet?  I know its still the 25th but I'm sure there are a few here who are waiting and I just wanted to know if anyone has heard anything yet.


 
   
  I was informed a couple of hours ago that mine had just shipped (paid on October 6th).
   
  Now to sell off the HiFace


----------



## borrego

I received the TC Electronic Level Pilot today. Finally I can stop relying on the replay gain of Foobar lowering the signal from my NFB-1 feeding to the XLR inputs of my Yamaha A-S2000 amp. Disabling the Foobar replay gain, going back to the Windows built-in TE-7022 driver, and setting the processor optimized for background process in Windows 7 finally get rid of the sound drop off issue.
   
  For those who are interested in using the TC Level Pilot (a 10k ohm potentialmeter) or other forms of passive preamps, there is a calculator at www.dact.com (http://www.dact.com/html/ac_calculator.html) to show if the high frequency drop-off is within the audio frequency range. It is fortunate that my Yamaha amp has input imedenace of 47k ohm and built-in input capacitance of 100pF. So the TC Level Pilot won't affect the frequency response in the audio frequency range.
   
  I am still using the DI with USB bus power. I find no audible difference from my NFB-1 using DI with USB bus power or an external 5V Lithium battery pack.
   
  Finally I can get the NFB-1 to run at full potential. I think I shall post a review of the NFB-1 later next week.


----------



## ak622

I got my shipping confirmation last night too.  So hopefully it will arrive by the end of next week.  I don't know whats worse, waiting for it to ship and not knowing when its on its way, or knowing its on its way and not knowing when it will be here.. haha 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





jjinh said:


> I was informed a couple of hours ago that mine had just shipped (paid on October 6th).
> 
> Now to sell off the HiFace


----------



## Alexdad54

I got a big surprise today, my Audio GD DI arrived on my desk this morning without ANY notice from Audio GD, shipping or otherwise! FYI, I ordered it on October 18th and it was shipped on the 29th.
  Everything looks fine, I'll be installing it tonight. Got the HiFace sold off as well.


----------



## SilverCans

Was there ever a comparison Hiface (modded) vs DI?


----------



## Pacha

Quote: 





silvercans said:


> Was there ever a comparison Hiface (modded) vs DI?


 

http://www.tweak-fi.com/apps/blog/show/5029064-the-usb-to-spdif-shoot-out-review-part-2-teralink-x2-vs-jkeny-s-modified-hiface-vs-audio-gd-digital-interface


----------



## .Sup

anyone got the power supply upgrade?


----------



## jjinh

Quote: 





alexdad54 said:


> I got a big surprise today, my Audio GD DI arrived on my desk this morning without ANY notice from Audio GD, shipping or otherwise! FYI, I ordered it on October 18th and it was shipped on the 29th.
> Everything looks fine, I'll be installing it tonight. Got the HiFace sold off as well.


 
   
  I also got mine yesterday.
   
  I dont really like the silver screws on the top of the unit... I might replace them with something nicer!


----------



## ak622

damnit.. I feel left out since mine didn't arrive yet.  It landed at the airport so hopefully it'll make its way to me tomorrow..


----------



## Audio Bling

Quote: 





jjinh said:


> I also got mine yesterday.
> 
> I dont really like the silver screws on the top of the unit... I might replace them with something nicer!


 

 Screws look good to me..


----------



## Currawong

He might have started using screws instead of hex screws to make it easier for people to open.  I think more useful would be some stick-on rubber feet being included as the small cases can end up scratching anything they are put on top of.    I received my PSU upgrade too. I shall experiment at some point.


----------



## Audio Bling

Quote: 





currawong said:


> He might have started using screws instead of hex screws to make it easier for people to open.  I think more useful would be some stick-on rubber feet being included as the small cases can end up scratching anything they are put on top of.    I received my PSU upgrade too. I shall experiment at some point.


 


   It is a pity if the hex screws have been superseded - it was a nice touch, IMO. Could not agree more about the rubber feet. What do you mean "PSU upgrade"?


----------



## Currawong

I only received the DI itself, and not the PSU as well.


----------



## jjinh

Currawong, your suggestion of some feet is a handy idea.
   
  I dont have any rubber feet lying around so I'll cut some squares out of the heap of .25in industrial foam tape I've got lying around (bought to stick on the bottom of my Woo headphone stand to stop them scratching my table). 
  
  Quote: 





audio bling said:


> It is a pity if the hex screws have been superseded - it was a nice touch, IMO. Could not agree more about the rubber feet. What do you mean "PSU upgrade"?


 
   
  No hex screws for me, just these really cheap looking philips head ones. If they were black or a gunmetal colour I wouldnt complain.


----------



## ak622

I just received mine at the office!  I feel like its going to be a long day... 
   
  I guess I need to find some feet to put under the unit.  Does it scratch up things pretty easily?


----------



## tim3320070

I used those small round chair pads that help chairs from scratching floors. I also used velcro to keep the DI and PSU together so they act as one unit when stacked.


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote:  





> Could not agree more about the rubber feet.


 
  x3


----------



## fy415

Quote: 





regal said:


> Has any one tested this unit for bitperfectness via DTS or HDCD tests ?


 


  I don't think so. I'm sure there are more than two of us interested in finding out.


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





			
				regal said:
			
		

> Has any one tested this unit for bitperfectness via DTS or HDCD tests ?


 
   
  Quote: 





fy415 said:


> I don't think so. I'm sure there are more than two of us interested in finding out.


 


  Confirmed negative for DTS through Windows 7 audio device setup panel


----------



## lag0a

It can't play dts files? have you tried playing a dts file through foobar?


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





lag0a said:


> It can't play dts files? have you tried playing a dts file through foobar?


 


  Haven't tried that. May be I should also try playing some DVDs later.
   
  I did try playing some multi-channel 24bit/96kHz DVD audio in foobar and it does give sound. But I am not sure if the Foobar2000 DVD audio plug-in does any 2-ch down mixing.
   
  I don't have an multi-channel AV amp to really test the DI's SPDIF out.


----------



## ak622

I got it set up in my system last night.  I first played my CD FLAC rips and my dac showed up with 44.1k.  After I downloaded head-fi album from HDtracks and my dac shows 96k just to confirm that it doesn't upsample anything from the DI.  I got the million and one jumpers that seems to ship with this but I am not going to do any upsampling yet.  Has anyone with the DI played with the jumpers/upsampling to hear the difference yet?  I might try that out if I have some time over the weekend.


----------



## Dynobot

Quote:  





> Has anyone with the DI played with the jumpers/upsampling to hear the difference yet?  I might try that out if I have some time over the weekend.


 


  I have and a couple of other people here have used the upsampling.  I still prefer non-upsampled music, though the hardware upsample of the DI seems to provide a more distinct sound vs. software upsampling. What I noticed was trade off between separation, clarity, focus and soundstage.  To me the soundstage seemed to shrink, which would coincide with the gain in focus and clarity....because the soundstage shrank their seemed to be less separation as the soundstage seemed more congested.  As with all things audio YMMV, I suggest that if you are inclined too, try it and decide what suites you best.


----------



## ak622

Thanks for the reply Dynobot.  I agree that I prefer non-upsampled from the DI as I'm using it mainly as a USB->SPDIF device.  I am interested in hearing how it sounds, and like you said, I'll have to decide for myself which holds true in this hobby.  I'll give it a try when I have some free time.


----------



## dukja

Just got my DI + PSU, a good surprise since my Ref-7 was delayed and they are ordered together.
   
  With DI+PSU and a few minutes quick listening, I found out that DI sounds less vivid, less sparking, and darker compare to my TeraLink-X.  The rest of system was Ref-1 (V3) + Phoenix + balanced T1.  I was kind of surprised by DI's sound, but will listen more for my idea to form.  The good thing is that the soundtrack of the 1st of The Pirates of the Caribbean now sounds much less edgy, which was problematic with TeraLink-X. However, other CD sound sweeter and more involving with TeraLink-X.  
   
  It is also nice to find out that with this transparent system the change on the transporter is much easy to detect.
   
  Just wonder people's impression on DI's sound compare to other USB/SPFID (I know there are threads and will dig into it) and does DI change its sound with some burnt-in?
   
  Could someone point me to the direction for upsampling setting?  Thanks!
   
  Edit:
  OK, I don't have the patience and found it here:
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/500369/audio-gd-digital-interface/660#post_6929342
   
  Very interestingly, upsampling (jump the NO-C pins) seems to immediately fix the "less vivid" problem. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  It is definitely worth more investigation!
   
  Edit 2:
  It seemed Window 7 has introduced a lot more settings that need to be disabled to achieve bit perfect.  After some correction (see below) and maybe burnt-in, the sound even with bypass mode starts to be lively and vivid as what I expected from a Audio-gd's device.


----------



## Dynobot

dukja, if you only toggle the no-c pin you are switching the DI from upsampling 48hz to passthrough sample rate.  Interesting that the sound would change like that....keep in mind it does require a small amount of break in...have fun!!!


----------



## dukja

@Dynobot
   
  Could you elaborate more?  I though that by put the jumper on NO-C the upsampling is enabled.  Please confirm! BTW, mine comes with jumpers and DSP-3 come with no jumpers in place (default).
   
  And what else I need to do to enable the upsampling?  Does Kingwa provide a "users manual" for the jumpers?
  
  Edit:  this post is the only thing I found after googling
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/500369/audio-gd-digital-interface/705#post_6956580
   
  So, I guessed that I need to jump NO-C and MMD0 to upsample to 96k, right?
   
  With only jumper in NO-C, then I upsample to 48K(MMD0=1, MMD1=1).
   
  Quote: 





dynobot said:


> dukja, if you only toggle the no-c pin you are switching the DI from upsampling 48hz to passthrough sample rate.  Interesting that the sound would change like that....keep in mind it does require a small amount of break in...have fun!!!


----------



## dukja

And I have a lot of "fun" using DI 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  After I switch back to default setting (no jumper at NO-C), DI seems to randomly change my laptop's audio setting (Win7).  For example, my volume will be turned down automatically and gradually, or one channel is down with the other remains, or the volume is totally shut off (muted).  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I was using Foobar KS to DI.  Anybody has seen such weird behavior?
   
  Edit:  Make changes in the Win7 Audio device setting solves these problems.


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





dukja said:


> And I have a lot of "fun" using DI
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  There is an option in Windows 7 which automatic turn down the volume when other event occur (say, you have a Skype call). Make sure you disable that setting.


----------



## jjinh

I'm also a bit confused about the pin settings on the Digital Interface.
   
  Say I plan to use the thing with a NOS DAC should I put jumpers on all the pins corresponding MMD0, MMD1 and NO-C?


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote: 





dukja said:


> Just got my DI + PSU, a good surprise since my Ref-7 was delayed and they are ordered together.
> 
> With DI+PSU and a few minutes quick listening, I found out that DI sounds less vivid, less sparking, and darker compare to my TeraLink-X.  The rest of system was Ref-1 (V3) + Phoenix + balanced T1.  I was kind of surprised by DI's sound, but will listen more for my idea to form.  The good thing is that the soundtrack of the 1st of The Pirates of the Caribbean now sounds much less edgy, which was problematic with TeraLink-X. However, other CD sound sweeter and more involving with TeraLink-X.
> 
> ...


 
  Yes the DI does require some burning in time. I don't know how much but it requires some. At first the sound is very dull but it gets better after. As time passes by I noticed a lot more bass and the sound kept being bery transparent. The device like pretty much any other Audio-GD device is quite neutral. The imaging is a lot better on the DI than on the Hiface stock or jkeny mod.


----------



## dukja

Quote: 





borrego said:


> There is an option in Windows 7 which automatic turn down the volume when other event occur (say, you have a Skype call). Make sure you disable that setting.


 
  Thanks for the hint.  It does looks like Win7 has some "smart" controlling feature, (I hate machine play smart with me.)  Whenever I plug in the USB to DI, Win 7 will mute the sound. (Ask Bill G. why 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)  This confused me nuts since I never expect so.  Sometimes, when I plug in USB, the DI does not show up until later.  Oh well, it seems to be OS issue. Now I seems to got some idea to avoid those issues.  The volume auto turning down seems to stopped when I used external PSU. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
   
  Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> Yes the DI does require some burning in time. I don't know how much but it requires some. At first the sound is very dull but it gets better after. As time passes by I noticed a lot more bass and the sound kept being bery transparent. The device like pretty much any other Audio-GD device is quite neutral. The imaging is a lot better on the DI than on the Hiface stock or jkeny mod.


 
  After switching back and forth between 96k and bypass modes, the difference seems to be much smaller now.  DI's sound becomes to more up to what I expect now.  Still, piano sounds a little bit soft compare to TeraLink-X.  However, the focus of DI's sound is better now.  The initial "dark" feeling is mostly gone after about 6 hours run-in.


----------



## lag0a

I figured out yesterday that windows 7 does do a lot of things in "control panel - > sound" to prevent bitperfect. For me I still use a sound card but plan on getting a DI in the future. First you need to make Speakers as the default to trick windows 7 into not interfering with your sound card or spdif digital out device. Then you should uncheck everything that can be checked in the "Playback tab." Then disable all the recording devices in the recording device tab. The obvious is use "No sounds" in the Sounds tab. Then finally in communications use "do nothing." The sound just changes to something I couldn't believe like I upgraded a new sound gear.


----------



## Nada

If you are using Windows isnt it heaps better to get bit perfect using Foobar via WASAPI out?


----------



## lag0a

For me I use windows 7 and with my auzentech x-meridian sound card I found its native ASIO drivers sound better than wasapi using foobar. I think its subjective and they both sound good.


----------



## dukja

Quote: 





lag0a said:


> I figured out yesterday that windows 7 does do a lot of things in "control panel - > sound" to prevent bitperfect. For me I still use a sound card but plan on getting a DI in the future. First you need to make Speakers as the default to trick windows 7 into not interfering with your sound card or spdif digital out device. Then you should uncheck everything that can be checked in the "Playback tab." Then disable all the recording devices in the recording device tab. The obvious is use "No sounds" in the Sounds tab. Then finally in communications use "do nothing." The sound just changes to something I couldn't believe like I upgraded a new sound gear.


 
  thanks for the hint.  I have not played with Win 7's audio setting at all after switching from XP.  If my memory serves me right, KS under XP was not interfered by windows volume setting or any other background sound.  I think those new "artificial foolishness" settings in Win7 may be the culprit yesterday. I have just done what you mentioned and it seems improves the clarity and tonality of the sound (edit: quite a bit).  And now the Windows volume setting does not interfere with the play volume anymore.  Thanks!
  
  Quote: 





nada said:


> If you are using Windows isnt it heaps better to get bit perfect using Foobar via WASAPI out?


 
I have never been able to make WASAPI work for me (either Vista or Win7).  I got error message: not able to play 44.1k 16-bit. 


 Edit: I just made WASAPI work for Foobar.


----------



## Dynobot

dukja, if you switched from XP to 7 on the same machine its probably hard ware issues that prevents you from using WASAPI.


----------



## dukja

Quote:


dynobot said:


> dukja, if you switched from XP to 7 on the same machine its probably hard ware issues that prevents you from using WASAPI.


 

 Thanks for the help.  But it is a completely new machine, Acer AS 1410 with Win 7 from factory.


----------



## dukja

Now after sorting out all the interference (I think) from Win 7.  DI sounds very good and up to my expectation (to the usual Audio-GD standard).
   
  And clearly Bypass mode (no jumper at all, factory stock setting) is the winner to me.  I compare the "supposed 96k mode" (jumpers in D0 and NO-C, I think that it is 96k upsampling) to the bypass mode with Ref-1 with V3 DSP software and found out that
  * Bypass mode is louder than 96k upsampling mode
  * 96k mode sounds farther than Bypass mode (in a bad way).  The sound loses focus, contrast, and impact.
  * Bypass mode sound like look at the real sonic scene and 96k like looking at the photograph
  * 96k mode may smooth out some temporal and tonal edge, which shouldn't be blurred.
  * Comparing to TeraLink-X, DI Bypass mode now sounds more solid and condensed with better image and darker backgound.
   
  This is quite different from my initial experience with DI.  For now I am use Bypass mode and let the DSP-1(V3) at Ref-1 do the oversampling for me.  I think that it makes sense to use the >1k machine do the processing than to use the $140 DI.  But DI does its supposed job wonderfully, which is converting USB to SPFID providing clean digital data for Ref-1.


----------



## Pacha

What settings do you guys use in "handled output formats" for your device in win7?
  I've just upgraded to win 7 64 and have found the sound on my jkeny HiFace to be quite horrible, smooth and not full compared to what I had previously with XP, with less dynamics and impact.
   
  I'm using KS with winamp. I checked all the supported modes (44, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4, 192KHz) in HiFace config window about supported modes, and picked 16 bits 44KHz.
  I'll try with 44KHz checked only, and 24 bits 44Khz.
  Other settings are : No recording device, do nothing (with incoming communications), no Windows sounds.


----------



## dukja

I did what you did but it seems to be the opposite.  As mentioned in previous post. 
  * Make your intended device NOT default audio device (yes, NOT default)
  * in Communication tab, choose "Do nothing"
  * in Playback tab, double click your device, then UNCHECK everything underneath it (make Win7 just forget about our intended device)
   
  Hope it helps.
  
  Quote: 





pacha said:


> What settings do you guys use in "handled output formats" for your device in win7?
> I've just upgraded to win 7 64 and have found the sound on my jkeny HiFace to be quite horrible, smooth and not full compared to what I had previously with XP, with less dynamics and impact.
> 
> I'm using KS with winamp. I checked all the supported modes (44, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4, 192KHz) in HiFace config window about supported modes, and picked 16 bits 44KHz.
> ...


----------



## Pacha

Ok, I have these settings also, but HiFace is default device for me as I don't have other installed (though I could enable and install my Audigy sound card).
  I unchecked everything in the playback modes.
   
  Do you picked 16 bits 44KHz or 24 bits 44KHz (or something else?). And what about the two boxes under, for exclusive mode? I have both checked.


----------



## Pacha

BTW, does anybody have a link to DI drivers for Win 7 64 bits? I think I'm going to buy it in the next few days.


----------



## dukja

This afternoon I start to experience another problem.  The music will stop in the middle of play and I have seen error message pop out of taskbar informing me that the driver is not properly installed (or something similar).  I have switched to another 64-bit Win 7 machine and similar thing occurred.
   
  I have mailed Kingwa for the issue since I have two machines showing the same problem.  And I have no problem with TeraLink-X.  We will see.
   
  In the process of debugging, I switch back to Teralink-X.  But now my ear has been indulged by DI and can easily hear the difference. 
  
  Quote: 





pacha said:


> Ok, I have these settings also, but HiFace is default device for me as I don't have other installed (though I could enable and install my Audigy sound card).
> I unchecked everything in the playback modes.
> 
> Do you picked 16 bits 44KHz or 24 bits 44KHz (or something else?). And what about the two boxes under, for exclusive mode? I have both checked.


----------



## lag0a

Pacha, Windows 7 should come with "Speakers" as a device in the "Playback tab" as default if you had no audio devices. I don't know if you have it disabled but maybe right click to show all disabled devices or communication devices. 
   
  Dukja, when I said to uncheck everything I meant to uncheck everything, even in the "Speakers" settings as well. Just uncheck everything in "Playback tab" aka supported formats and advanced -> exclusive modes.
   
  I think I read that the DI uses the tenor chip that is compatible with the Teralink-X that also uses the tenor chip or something. There is suppose to be drivers for the tenor chip in the DI I think.
   
  If you want to change the sound more to be even more accurate I discovered that foobar has settings that affect bitperfect too but I don't want to post anymore about settings in the DI thread. PM me or dukja if you want to know the foobar settings. Basically dealing with unchecking a lot of stuff as well and typing in numbers. Too many settings. I wish there is an article somewhere with all these instructions already.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





pacha said:


> Ok, I have these settings also, but HiFace is default device for me as I don't have other installed (though I could enable and install my Audigy sound card).
> I unchecked everything in the playback modes.
> 
> Do you picked *16 bits 44KHz or 24 bits 44KHz (or something else?)*. And what about the two boxes under, for exclusive mode? I have both checked.


 

 Hi Pacha
   
  Are you asking about he DI or the modded HiFace?
   
  USG


----------



## Nada

I have an idea that if Foobar is set up correctly on Windows 7 that the OS cant change the volume, channel balance or other weird stuff written above. The OS will either pass the bits unaltered or cut off any transmission. Ive found this with WASAPI. It gives me confidence when Windows cant mess with the PCM stream. If KS or ASIO doesnt incapacitate Windoze from modifying the PCM stream e.g by changing the volume I would imagine that the set up is sub-optimal?


----------



## K3cT

Yes, Nada got it right. These are what I did to achieve bit-perfect using Foobar in Windows 7.
   
  Step 1: Disable all Enhancements.
   

   
   
  Step 2: Activate Exclusive Mode by ticking these two boxes.
   

   
   
  Step 3: Set Foobar to use WASAPI and set buffer length to be as low as possible, preferably below 100ms. 
   

   
   
  Step 4 (optional): Set Foobar to load your music files to RAM by double-clicking *Full file buffering up to (kB) *and entering a large value. Some camp believes that this reduces potential jitter and although I cannot tell any differences myself, this has an added bonus to give you a stutter-free playback during heavy network activities at the cost of a (very) short pause before playback starts.


----------



## Pacha

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> Hi Pacha
> 
> Are you asking about he DI or the modded HiFace?
> 
> USG


 


  Modded HiFace, but I'm considering buying the DI so I'm interested in its settings as well.
  Now that I hear report of crashes with two computers running 7 64 with the DI, I'm waiting other people to report or Kingwa to post a solution/explanation.


----------



## Pacha

Well, I've just checked the two options for exclusive mode in the windows advanced tab, set to 16 bits 44KHz, everything unchecked in supported formats tab, all others options to disabled. However, I have no speakers or anything else than HiFace hence no speakers in a tab. Result : sound is like before again, at least more than before settings things properly. But I still find it a bit different. I'm going to check with foobar instead of winamp.
  I checked afterwards if I could change volume and balance with windows but I can't so it seems fine on this point. When playing a track through winamp with KS I don't have any sound on the web so that looks normal here also.
   
  I guess it's the options checked in supported formats tab and the rest of win 7 config which prevent bit perfect mode.
   
  Edit : BTW, I read that some people found 7 sounding better than XP, but I don't find any difference now. Maybe because using WASAPI with foobar instead of ASIO or KS under XP, I don't know, but with the same KS plugin with winamp I don't find anything to be better.


----------



## Pacha

Quote:


punk_guy182 said:


> Yes the DI does require some burning in time. I don't know how much but it requires some. At first the sound is very dull but it gets better after. As time passes by I noticed a lot more bass and the sound kept being bery transparent. The device like pretty much any other Audio-GD device is quite neutral. The imaging is a lot better on the DI than on the Hiface stock or jkeny mod.


 


  
   What did you ended with in comparison with the jkeny HiFace? Better imaging, and : more bass (impact?), more transparency? What about the highs, and harshness?


----------



## dukja

Quote: 





nada said:


> I have an idea that if Foobar is set up correctly on Windows 7 that the OS cant change the volume, channel balance or other weird stuff written above. The OS will either pass the bits unaltered or cut off any transmission. Ive found this with WASAPI. It gives me confidence when Windows cant mess with the PCM stream. If KS or ASIO doesnt incapacitate Windoze from modifying the PCM stream e.g by changing the volume I would imagine that the set up is sub-optimal?


 

 Not really. 
   
  If you use the WASAPI in the exclusive mode (check the Exclusive button at the Audio setting), The volume can be changed from the taskbar speaker icon.  But if I uncheck the Exclusive mode, Foobar does not play using WASAPI (error reported). 
   
  If I use KS with Exclusive mode, volume can also be changed in Win 7.  But KS with unchecked exclusive mode can be played in Foobar and the volume setting under Win 7 has NO effect on play volume.
   
  From what I read, Exclusive mode should be used but it allows volume to be controlled via OS.  So what do we do?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  KS seems to be better if we don't want OS mess up the volume.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





pacha said:


> Modded HiFace, but I'm considering buying the DI so I'm interested in its settings as well.
> Now that I hear report of crashes with two computers running 7 64 with the DI, I'm waiting other people to report or Kingwa to post a solution/explanation.


 

  
  IC....
   
  From the HiFace disk


----------



## Pacha

USG, I use winamp, not foobar. But I've tried foobar this afternoon with these settings.
   
  My settings for Winamp are :
   

   
   
   
  BTW, I disabled sound icon in the tray, and even enabling it won't allow volume control with Windows, if I change volume setting with this icon, playback volume in Winamp doesn't change with HiFace in KS mode.


----------



## Nada

Quote: 





dukja said:


> Exclusive mode should be used but it allows volume to be controlled via OS.  So what do we do?


 

 I have set up: Windoze7 with SPDIF HD Audio running in exclusive mode and speakers set as the default device. Foobar WASAPI is problem free and Taskbar controls do not effect the volume.
   
  I recommend K3CT's comprehensive guide above which is excellent and is an example of how some posters make this forum so helpful.


----------



## dukja

Unfortunately, I have done every thing K3cT mentioned still...
   
  As long as Exclusive mode is enabled, my Foobar can do either WASAPI or KS with no problem at all (today for about 8 hours of listening), but the volume still can be controlled by OS. 
   
  Foobar only has problem using WASAPI when I disabled the Exclusive mode.  I had Acer AS1410 with 32-bit Win7 if that matters.  Unless there is some other setting that hasn't been mentioned, I think our machines just act differently, which does not surprise me.
   
  Let's not worry about it and go back to DI's sound, which is what this thread about.

  
  Quote: 





nada said:


> I have set up: Windoze7 with SPDIF HD Audio running in exclusive mode and speakers set as the default device. Foobar WASAPI is problem free and Taskbar controls do not effect the volume.
> 
> I recommend K3CT's comprehensive guide above which is excellent and is an example of how some posters make this forum so helpful.


----------



## Pacha

So guys, any DI driver for 7 64? Any crashing issue like somebody already mentionned with this OS?


----------



## ak622

Pacha, there shouldn't be a need for a driver for the DI on W7..  I plugged mine into the USB and it recognized it as a Tenor SPDIF or something interface and I was up to running. i've been using it for a few days and have no issues at all.


----------



## dukja

I just tried DI WITHOUT the PSU.   And I was so surprised by how much difference PSU make.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Without PSU, the soundstage becomes hollow and artificial.  I happen to be listening the "Memories of Blue" in Vangelis' Oceanic, which has a immense sonic scene and the problem of no PSU becomes so apparent.
   
  Also, the impact of piano-like sound becomes dull and lose focus.  To me DI without PSU is almost un-listenable.  (Sorry, I try not to be exaggerate but my ear probably has been indulged by DI + PSU)
   
  Maybe my laptop has very poor power supply through USB.


----------



## lag0a

The DI has ram built in that stores its drivers so I'm guessing it still uses some sort of drivers even though it is plug and play ready.


----------



## K3cT

Quote: 





dukja said:


> Unfortunately, I have done every thing K3cT mentioned still...
> 
> *As long as Exclusive mode is enabled, my Foobar can do either WASAPI or KS with no problem at all (today for about 8 hours of listening), but the volume still can be controlled by OS. *
> 
> ...


 

 That actually depends on what USB receiver chip is used in your respective unit. I personally wouldn't worry too much about it but if you're still curious you can try downloading some DTS tracks and try playing it through the DI to your A/V receiver. If the receiver "recognizes" the sound then it's bit-perfect.


----------



## Pacha

Well so nobody has installed Tenor drivers for the chip? I've asked because IIRC I read in this thread that some has Tenor chip drivers installed.
  Anyway, if it works plug and play I'm perfectly ok with that.


----------



## ninjikiran

Quote: 





pacha said:


> Well so nobody has installed Tenor drivers for the chip? I've asked because IIRC I read in this thread that some has Tenor chip drivers installed.
> Anyway, if it works plug and play I'm perfectly ok with that.


 


  Thought the Tenor chip ran off of standard USB-Audio drivers.


----------



## ak622

ninjikiran: yes, the DI installed its own drivers for Win7.  That's what happened on my computer and the device shows up in my devices.
   
  Pacha: I finally understand.  I thought that your posts were specific in your case of the DI but you don't have yours yet.  Yes, it was plug and play in my case.  it just worked with no issues.


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote: 





dukja said:


> Maybe my laptop has very poor power supply through USB.


 
   
  That's the reason why your DI sounds much better with the external PSU. I have done some tests on my pc with and without the external PSU and there are no SQ differences whatsoever.  So it seems that I have pretty good power supply through USB on my PC but I know that laptops are more vulnerable to this type of problem.
  
  Quote: 





pacha said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> What did you ended with in comparison with the jkeny HiFace? Better imaging, and : more bass (impact?), more transparency? What about the highs, and harshness?


 
  DI has much better imaging and by that I mean that the music just feels like the way it sould be. The instruments are at the right places, they play at the right time and at the right levels. The DI is much more transparent and less harsh than the Hiface. Hiface stock is harsher sounding than hiface jkeny mod.
  The Hiface tends to boost the highs and it sounds more dynamic. This type of coloration might sound good at first when listening to techno or rock types of music but I find it artificial after awhile.
  If you don't have a Phoenix, you will notice the black background with the DI. I have the Phoenix so it already has this charecteristic. Also, I'd say that the DI alligns all the intruments on a single wide soundstage without a lot of 3d soundstage perspective.
   
  If you're after something transparent than the DI is for you. I highly recommend it for the price.


----------



## jjinh

Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> That's the reason why your DI sounds much better with the external PSU. I have done some tests on my pc with and without the external PSU and there are no SQ differences whatsoever.  So it seems that I have pretty good power supply through USB on my PC but I know that laptops are more vulnerable to this type of problem.
> 
> DI has much better imaging and by that I mean that the music just feels like the way it sould be. The instruments are at the right places, they play at the right time and at the right levels. The DI is much more transparent and less harsh than the Hiface. Hiface stock is harsher sounding than hiface jkeny mod.
> The Hiface tends to boost the highs and it sounds more dynamic. This type of coloration might sound good at first when listening to techno or rock types of music but I find it artificial after awhile.
> ...


 
   
   
  I currently have both the HiFace and Digital Interface plugged between my PC and DAC using more or less identical BNC cables (they are of slightly different length, 6ft vs 5ft).
   

   
   
  I echo your sentiment regarding the DI sounding more transparent. From my short listen its imaging also appears better but bass appears to have slightly less impact. I only started using the DI this morning but I had it 'burning in' yesterday.
   
   
  By the way has anyone else noticed that the top panel on their Digital Interface vibrates a lot when the device is on? I find it disconcerting. Yes I have tightened the screws, etc.


----------



## ak622

jinnh: my DI doesn't vibrate at all when it is on.  That is odd that yours is vibrating, maybe shoot Edwin or Kingwa an email about that since it doesn't appear to be normal.


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





jjinh said:


> By the way has anyone else noticed that the top panel on their Digital Interface vibrates a lot when the device is on? I find it disconcerting. Yes I have tightened the screws, etc.


 


  That is definitely a concern....I wonder what could be vibrating inside.


----------



## borrego

I played a DVD movie through the DI and NFB-1 today. It's confirmed that the DI is incompatible with DTS.
   
  Not that is important to use the DI for the 2 channel NFB-1.


----------



## ninjikiran

Quote: 





dynobot said:


> That is definitely a concern....I wonder what could be vibrating inside.


 

  
  Same, doesn't make much sense.  Unless he is mistaking vibrations for a circuit which got ngrounded and is sending small volts of eletricity through parts of the case.  Has happened to be without ruining the device.


----------



## jjinh

Quote: 





ninjikiran said:


> Same, doesn't make much sense.  Unless he is mistaking vibrations for a circuit which got ngrounded and is sending small volts of eletricity through parts of the case.  Has happened to be without ruining the device.


 
   
  Possible. Next time I use the DI I'll measure it to see if there is any current.


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote: 





jjinh said:


> I echo your sentiment regarding the DI sounding more transparent. From my short listen its imaging also appears better but bass appears to have slightly less impact. I only started using the DI this morning but I had it 'burning in' yesterday.


 

 The DI requires some considerable burning in time. At first the sound is dull but the it opens up and you'll definetely hear a lot more bass. Give it a week or two and you'll enjoy what it can do.


----------



## Pacha

Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> The DI requires some considerable burning in time. At first the sound is dull but the it opens up and you'll definetely hear a lot more bass. Give it a week or two and you'll enjoy what it can do.


 

  
  So you ended up with more bass than jkeny HiFace?


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote: 





pacha said:


> So you ended up with more bass than jkeny HiFace?


 

 That I cannot confirm. It's been awhile since I've had the hiface.


----------



## Pacha

Ok. Mine is on its way for ordering right now, I'll make my opinion within two weeks I guess.


----------



## ninjikiran

Quote: 





jjinh said:


> Possible. Next time I use the DI I'll measure it to see if there is any current.


 


  Just noticed all the typos, I must of been typing that up when I was half asleep or busy somewhere else.  Sorry for making it so painful to read


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





dynobot said:


> That is definitely a concern....I wonder what could be vibrating inside.


 

 Is there a transformer inside?

  
  Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> *The DI requires some considerable burning in time.* At first the sound is dull but the it opens up and you'll definetely hear a lot more bass. Give it a week or two and you'll enjoy what it can do.


 

 What needs to be burned in?   <---just asking.
   
  USG


----------



## ninjikiran

It supposedly does have a transformer based on the information on the device. (Quote A-GD DI site: [size=x-small]The Digital Interface applied a silver wires isolated transformer for insulate the ground noise between PC and the DAC[/size]) Though I can't really find it in the image, its probably hidden under one of those red caps.
   
  Not really knowledgeable about these kinds of things though.
   
  http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USBface/DI3.jpg
  Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> Is there a transformer inside?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





ninjikiran said:


> It supposedly does have a transformer based on the information on the device. (Quote A-GD DI site: [size=x-small]The Digital Interface applied a silver wires isolated transformer for insulate the ground noise between PC and the DAC[/size]) Though I can't really find it in the image, its probably hidden under one of those red caps.
> 
> Not really knowledgeable about these kinds of things though.
> 
> http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USBface/DI3.jpg


 

 I suppose the better question is why it hasn't been returned for exchange yet?


----------



## borrego

An hour ago I added a 7V 1A switching power supply to power the DI. No noticeable difference in sound quality through my NFB-1. But it seems to make the USB connection more stable


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> Is there a transformer inside?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  No transformer inside as far as I can tell. 
   
  Break-In has to do with the stable state of both the conductors and the dielectric. 
   
*Short version of Break-In:*
  1)Conductors of electricity are made up of atoms, each atom has a certain number of electrons in its valance shell.  Copper and Silver both have 1 electron in their valance shells.
  2)When the atom is excited with electrical energy its outer most electron gets kicked out of its valance orbit into what is called a conduction band, this conduction band is where electricity is conducted.
  3)Dielectrics also have a conduction band which is separated by a gap between the valance shell.
  4)A certain amount of electrons will escape the conduction band of the metal and occupy the conduction band of the dielectric [this is why people are concerned about what material is being used to insulate wire]
  5)Until the insulator builds up a significant amount of electrons in its conduction band *Break-In has not occurred.*
  6)Once the insulator has a sufficient amount of electrons in its conduction band no further electrons are lost from the conductors "conduction-band" into the dieletrics "conduction-band" *now Break-In has occurred*
   
  This is the principle behind AudioQuest DBS cables, they charge the dielectric so that its conduction bands energy is higher than the threshold of electrons escaping the wires conduction band.  What this does is essentially reduce break-in to practically nothing and the conductors are not influenced by the dielectric, which has a tendency to smear, slow and make electronics sound dull, dry and out of phase until break-in has occurred.


----------



## Pacha

I knew the principles you pointed out, as similar behaviour can be seen in computers' CPUs for instance. You summed up the things pretty well. Did you pick this up from somewhere or did you just write it directly from your knowledge? I hope those who still think break-in doesn't exist will think about it a bit more or try to elaborate with the same kind of reasoning if they want to discuss it with arguments.


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





pacha said:


> I knew the principles you pointed out, as similar behaviour can be seen in computers' CPUs for instance. You summed up the things pretty well. Did you pick this up from somewhere or did you just write it directly from your knowledge? I hope those who still think break-in doesn't exist will think about it a bit more or try to elaborate with the same kind of reasoning if they want to discuss it with arguments.


 


  I picked up the knowledge from my organic chemistry background in college studying how atoms behave in relation to other elements.


----------



## ninjikiran

You got me, I would of returned it as well if it had problems like that.  Out of fear of it causing damage to more than itself.
  Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> I suppose the better question is why it hasn't been returned for exchange yet?


----------



## tim3320070

Isn't the transformer in the PSU unit? I do feel there is a slight improvement with the PSU on my system- like the singer took a step closer to me.


----------



## Zorlac

Just a quick comment to all the folks using KS with Windows 7. It is my understanding that KS has *nothing* to do with Windows Vista or Windows 7. KS is a Windows XP and older technology. The Windows audio architecture was completely re-written starting with Vista, so KS no longer applies.
   
  For Vista/7, you want to use WASAPI in *Exclusive mode* to achieve bit perfect playback. In the perfect world (pun intended?), your DAC would also have a display that shows you the incoming sample rate. This way you could prove if bit perfect playback is working.
   
  Back on topic (sorry), does Tenor have an official driver they release to the public? Just thinking they may have a newer version. I wonder if the firmware on the DI can be updated with the newer driver if this is the case? Also, is Kingwa using the latest and greatest Tenor USB chip? I think I will stick with my JKeny hiFace since it supports more sample rates for now.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





dynobot said:


> No transformer inside as far as I can tell.
> 
> Break-In has to do with the stable state of both the conductors and the dielectric.
> 
> ...


 

 Sorry, I find it hard to buy into charged dielectrics....  Sounds like cable babble-rap to me.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
   
   
  What's this?


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> Sorry, I find it hard to buy into charged dielectrics....
> *Sure no problem...I didn't event the laws of science, if you don't believe it fine with me.*
> 
> Sounds like cable babble-rap to me.....
> ...


----------



## tim3320070

The white arrow looks like a transformer....it's so cute 
 oh what the hell


----------



## Dynobot

Isolation transformer used to provide galvanic isolation between the usb and coax/bnc, not exactly the same  as a power transformer...or is it????


----------



## SilverCans

Quote: 





zorlac said:


> Just a quick comment to all the folks using KS with Windows 7. It is my understanding that KS has *nothing* to do with Windows Vista or Windows 7. KS is a Windows XP and older technology. The Windows audio architecture was completely re-written starting with Vista, so KS no longer applies.
> 
> For Vista/7, you want to use WASAPI in *Exclusive mode* to achieve bit perfect playback. In the perfect world (pun intended?), your DAC would also have a display that shows you the incoming sample rate. This way you could prove if bit perfect playback is working.
> 
> Back on topic (sorry), does Tenor have an official driver they release to the public? Just thinking they may have a newer version. I wonder if the firmware on the DI can be updated with the newer driver if this is the case? Also, is Kingwa using the latest and greatest Tenor USB chip? I think I will stick with my JKeny hiFace since it supports more sample rates for now.


 

 He is using the latest Tenor chip, its fairly new. They do not support 88k sample rates but most others (44, 48, 96k). The Tenor chip does not require drivers for an OS, however, I am unsure if the Tenor FW can be updated on chip.


----------



## Dynobot

Windows users, how many USB cards show up in your audio software with the DI?
   
  In linux there are two, one represents  usb 1.1 compatibility and only supports 16bit, the other usb 2.0 and supports 24 bit.


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





dynobot said:


> Windows users, how many USB cards show up in your audio software with the DI?
> 
> In linux there are two, one represents  usb 1.1 compatibility and only supports 16bit, the other usb 2.0 and supports 24 bit.


 

 Only 1 device shown in Windows 7 as "TE7022 Audio w/SPDIF"


----------



## sokolov91

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> Isn't the transformer in the PSU unit? I do feel there is a slight improvement with the PSU on my system- like the singer took a step closer to me.


 

 cool, didn't know the psu could make the DI louder.


----------



## ninjikiran

haha didn't see it till now, I was expecting it to be on the left side for some strange reason.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





dynobot said:


> Isolation transformer used to provide galvanic isolation between the usb and coax/bnc, not exactly the same  as a power transformer...or is it????


 

 Maybe that's the cause of the vibration?


----------



## Pacha

Quote: 





zorlac said:


> Just a quick comment to all the folks using KS with Windows 7. It is my understanding that KS has *nothing* to do with Windows Vista or Windows 7. KS is a Windows XP and older technology. The Windows audio architecture was completely re-written starting with Vista, so KS no longer applies.
> 
> For Vista/7, you want to use WASAPI in *Exclusive mode* to achieve bit perfect playback. In the perfect world (pun intended?), your DAC would also have a display that shows you the incoming sample rate. This way you could prove if bit perfect playback is working.
> 
> Back on topic (sorry), does Tenor have an official driver they release to the public? Just thinking they may have a newer version. I wonder if the firmware on the DI can be updated with the newer driver if this is the case? Also, is Kingwa using the latest and greatest Tenor USB chip? I think I will stick with my JKeny hiFace since it supports more sample rates for now.


 


  I see what you mean, and I guess you are right. Anyway, I think as KS plugins with Winamp and foobar get exclusive mode behaviour for me, they must be throwing sound in exclusive mode to the audio processing layer of 7, hence giving bitperfect playback. I didn't find any difference when playing music with foobar with KS and Wasapi plugins.


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> Maybe that's the cause of the vibration?


 

 Actually I don't buy into all that transformer vibration stuff...its all in the imagination.


----------



## Pacha

My DI version B with PSU is ordered, I'll see how it performs compared to the modified HiFace.


----------



## vrln

I´ve never noticed any vibration either...


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





sokolov91 said:


> cool, didn't know the psu could make the DI louder.


 

 That's not what I meant, and not sure that is technically possible. I meant music sounds a touch more in focus/real. Emphasis on "a touch".


----------



## sokolov91

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> That's not what I meant, and not sure that is technically possible. I meant music sounds a touch more in focus/real. Emphasis on "a touch".


 


  lol I know I am just "yanking your chain".
   
  Supposedly the built in PSU is already stellar for what the product is. Interesting there still seems to be an improvement with the external psu. If i got one, I would get the external PSU simply because it could be used with my monster of a computer off...


----------



## dukja

The strength of DI is to make soundstage even larger and sonic focus more accurate.  With DI + Ref-1 + Phoenix + T1, I start to really enjoy the feeling of sitting in the music hall listening the real music (soundstage-wise).
  
  But I do feel the Bypass mode is louder than the 96k upsampling mode.  Maybe it got some digital volume change?
  Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> That's not what I meant, and not sure that is technically possible. I meant music sounds a touch more in focus/real. Emphasis on "a touch".


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





borrego said:


> I played a DVD movie through the DI and NFB-1 today. It's confirmed that the DI is incompatible with DTS.
> 
> Not that is important to use the DI for the 2 channel NFB-1.


 


  The NFB-1 cannot process a DTS stream...you need to send that stream from one of the DI's outputs (that is not being used) and send that stream to a HT receiver/processor. If you do not have a HT receiver/processor then you need to install AC3filter and set it up to process the DTS stream before sending to the DI (it will translate the DTS stream into a pcm stream that the NFB-1 can handle).Very few outboard audio dacs if any can handle DD or DTS...I can think of none off hand.
   
  Read about software processing of DD and DTS (as it relates to sending pcm to an audio dac). You'll be able to listen to movies using the NFB-1 but it will be in 2 channel only (or a 5.1 down mix). The best method however is to send that stream via the DI (which should pass the stream untouched) to a HT processor and then plug in your phones to that processor to get the full effect of whatever the movie has been encoded with.
   
  Peete.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





dynobot said:


> Actually I don't buy into all that transformer vibration stuff...its all in the imagination.


 

 LOL


----------



## Pacha

Quote: 





dukja said:


> The strength of DI is to make soundstage even larger and sonic focus more accurate.  With DI + Ref-1 + Phoenix + T1, I start to really enjoy the feeling of sitting in the music hall listening the real music (soundstage-wise).
> 
> But I do feel the Bypass mode is louder than the 96k upsampling mode.  Maybe it got some digital volume change?


 


   What's the purpose of the Bypass mode? How do you like it in comparison with the 96K upsampling mode?


----------



## Dynobot

I agree, when in bypass mode there seems to be more air and greater decay, which makes the music seems more lively.  While in 96k mode air and decay are slightly decreased and focus is slightly increased.  So the edges of the instruments etc. seem a bit more distinct but to me its a bit un-natural.


----------



## Pacha

What does the setting bypass? Is it non-upsampling?


----------



## Dynobot

bypass = sample rate passes through from the source, the signal is untouched
   
  Otherwise you can activate upsampling by the pins....it goes up to 192, but there is no way to test it due to the Dac's input limitations.


----------



## notThinking

Wondering if the SB Duet would benefit anything from the A-GD DI ? Are the any experience availably with this combo yet ?
 'Search this thread' didn't reveal anything, but still - someone might have tested it?


----------



## tll

SB3->REF3->REF7->C3->C1
  I do not have the a-gd DI but the a-gd REF3.With the REF3, SB3 sounds much less digital, this is my connection,


----------



## stuarth

My first post and I'm a little out of place here as I'm not a regular headphone user . . .
  But I have recently purchased an audio-gd Digital Interface (with power supply) and the NFB-1 DAC.
   
  I'm using this pair to play back FLAC files from the SSD of my mini-ITX based dedicated music server (Win XP SP2)
  Foobar 1.1 is my media player of choice.
   
  I had previously used an HRT MusicStreamer with no playback issues at all.
   
  My current setup: Music server (USB) > audio-GD DI  (coax, BNC terminated) > NFB1 > integrated amp > speakers
   
  I'm now having some playback problems with Foobar and any advice would be appreciated. Problems are:
   
  1. When I press play in Foobar there is a delay of about a second before music is output from speakers. The spectrum meter in Foobar responds instantly though.
   
  2. After listening for about 20-30 minutes with no problems I start to get dropouts. Once I get the first more follow in quick succession.
   
  At this stage I shut down the PC and DAC and go back to my CD player.
   
  I have tested my PC using the DPC latency checker [size=x-small]http://www.thesycon.de/eng/latency_check.shtml[/size]







    
  This indicates no obviously problems during playback, averaging round 50uS but with the odd peak of 200-something. Green bars all the way.
   
  I have shut down un-needed services and bypassed windows mixer.
   
  I had similar problems on a borrowed laptop with similar specs running Foobar via USB - startup delay and dropouts.
   
  However: my 'office' PC (not suitable for music server, big & noisy) has an optical SPDIF output.
  I tried playing files via SPDIF into the NFB-1 and had neither problem described above.
   
  This suggests the DI may be the culprit (or the way it 'talks' to the NFB-1.
   
  Any advice welcomed! Thanks.


----------



## udailey

I'm not going to be a lot of help as computer audio is a 'new thing' for me. But process of elimination is the first thing you need to do. 
  Try USB from computer to DAC, skipping the interface.
  Try CDPlayer coax to DAC. 
  If no problems then its the interface. If skipping on both then its the DAC. If only skipping USB then its the computer's output. If skipping CDP, again its the DAC.
  Uriah


----------



## stuarth

Uriah,
   
  I could not test USB input to the NFB-1, the only inputs are SP-DIF.
   
  CDplayer Toslink into the DAC was flawless (as was SPDIF from another PC, as per my first post).
   
  The Interface was a 'known good' unit previously owned by the vendor (a very helpful guy), who had no such problems.
   
  The gear appears well made and judging from comments on this thread should have a lot of potential. Here's hoping . . .
   
  Stuart
  
  Quote: 





udailey said:


> I'm not going to be a lot of help as computer audio is a 'new thing' for me. But process of elimination is the first thing you need to do.
> Try USB from computer to DAC, skipping the interface.
> Try CDPlayer coax to DAC.
> If no problems then its the interface. If skipping on both then its the DAC. If only skipping USB then its the computer's output. If skipping CDP, again its the DAC.
> Uriah


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





stuarth said:


> My first post and I'm a little out of place here as I'm not a regular headphone user . . .
> But I have recently purchased an audio-gd Digital Interface (with power supply) and the NFB-1 DAC.
> 
> I'm using this pair to play back FLAC files from the SSD of my mini-ITX based dedicated music server (Win XP SP2)
> ...


 


 you might check the device manager and see if each device is on it's own usb port.
   
  the start up  delay is usually related to the foobar buffer length ........  how high do you have yours set?


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





stuarth said:


> My first post and I'm a little out of place here as I'm not a regular headphone user . . .
> But I have recently purchased an audio-gd Digital Interface (with power supply) and the NFB-1 DAC.
> 
> I'm using this pair to play back FLAC files from the SSD of my mini-ITX based dedicated music server (Win XP SP2)
> ...


 

  
  I am having the same DI + NFB-1 setup as yours
   
  The 1 sec delay is caused by the DI. As connecting my DVD player to the NFB-1 directly does not have the delay. Are you using USB bus power? It seems that the delay is caused by the time DI need to "power up". Using an external power supply will help.
   
  For the drop out, it is caused by (1) the power management of the PC, (2) Other windows programs try to access the TE-7022 SPDIF devices (even in ASIO/WASAPI mode), (2) busy hard drive access.
   
  Not necessary a fast PC would have less drop-out. Out of my 3 notebooks, I have fewest drop-out with my 6 years old IBM T41 running WinXP SP1
   
  Do the following will help:
  (1) Set the "Replay Gain" option in Foobar to none
  (2) Set 0ms for Playback Fading in Foobar's advanced option
  (3) Set Windows XP to prioritize for "Background" process
  (4) Do not set the TE-7022 SPDIF as the default sound device in Windows
  (5) Set a larger memory for the "Full file buffering" option in Foobar
  (6) Defrag your harddrive
   
  You are not going to completely get rid of the drop-out. The best is I can get is 1 drop out every album listening (usually because of busy HD reading). I think the problem is mainly due to the generic TE-7022 windows driver not demanding high priority in Windows.


----------



## dukja

These are good advice. 
   
  I used to have the same drop out issue but not the initial delay problem.  I have been always use the PSU from Audio-gd.
   
  My drop out issue has been cured up completely after I tweak some setting in the Windows 7's Audio device setting.  Since I have tried/changed so many things that I cannot remember exactly what I did.  But I do remember three main things that seem to be the cure:
  1. enable the Exclusive mode for WASAPI and use WASAPI in foobar
  2. disable any un-used audio device (actually I disabled all but DI and just enable any that I needed when not listening)
   
  I would recommend to play with the OS's and Foobar's settings.  Also, DI does not like to be unplug and then replug in a short time.  Either the OS or the device will be confused and it takes a while for them to work correctly.  So if you unplug DI, do wait a while before re-plugging it in.
   
  After that I have never got any drop out at all.  My setup is laptop USB -> DI -> Ref-1.

  
  Quote: 





borrego said:


> I am having the same DI + NFB-1 setup as yours
> 
> The 1 sec delay is caused by the DI. As connecting my DVD player to the NFB-1 directly does not have the delay. Are you using USB bus power? It seems that the delay is caused by the time DI need to "power up". Using an external power supply will help.
> 
> ...


----------



## borrego

I must also add that there will be play back delay when switching between songs of different bit frequency/rate (i.e. switch playing 16bit/44kHz and 24bit/96kHz song) in Foobar


----------



## stuarth

borrego said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





stuarth said:


> You are not going to completely get rid of the drop-out. The best is I can get is 1 drop out every album listening (usually because of busy HD reading). I think the problem is mainly due to the generic TE-7022 windows driver not demanding high priority in Windows.


 
   
  Anyone else have this drop-out problem?


----------



## dukja

This seems to be a too broad statement.  Drop-out is not normal and not acceptable.  Please don't make impression that it is normal for DI.  And I hope that you would find a cure eventually for DI is such a wonderful sounding device.
  Quote: 





> *Originally Posted by borrego View Post*
> 
> You are not going to completely get rid of the drop-out.


 

 I, for one, did not experience any drop out after first a few days of tweaking.  OS: Win 7, Foobar with WASAPI(exclusive mode), 16-bit/44.1Hz, DI+PSU to Ref-1.
   
  Quote: 





> *Originally Posted by upstateguy View Post*
> 
> Anyone else have this drop-out problem?


----------



## ninjikiran

I would agree, I get no drop out in my system.  Although I am not using the DI.


----------



## stuarth

Sorry for messing up my last post re dropout problems using the DI into the NFB-1 DAC.
 I tried to edit it without success, decided it was time for bed . . .

 Last night I made some changes (thanks Borrego) and got almost 2 hrs of listening before dropouts returned. So, some progress but not quite there yet.

 Borrego's advice:

 (1) Set the "Replay Gain" option in Foobar to none

 (2) Set 0ms for Playback Fading in Foobar's advanced option

 (3) Set Windows XP to prioritize for "Background" process

 (4) Do not set the TE-7022 SPDIF as the default sound device in Windows

 (5) Set a larger memory for the "Full file buffering" option in Foobar

 (6) Defrag your harddrive


 I had already done 1, 3 and 4 and had tried 5 before (didn't seem to help but tried again, set to 99999

 I have now set fading as per 2 above.

 re 6 - I think it's not a good idea to defrag a Solid State drive? But correct me if I'm wrong.

 Other changes I made:

 1. Disabled CPU SpeedStep in the Intel BIOS

 2. Disabled display driver in Windows and shifted video processing to the CPU - following this advice from the CiCs people:
 http://www.cicsmemoryplayer.com/index.php?n=CMP.07Optimisations

 I had already carried most of the other steps listed in the cics article.

 @upstateguy:
 >>the start up  delay is usually related to the foobar buffer length ........  how high do you have yours set?

 Mine is set to the default of 1000mS - I tried a smaller value (200) and that did not seem to help at the time.
 What do you suggest?

 @dukja:
 >>1. enable the Exclusive mode for WASAPI and use WASAPI in foobar

 >>2. disable any un-used audio device (actually I disabled all but DI and just enable any that I needed when not listening)

 I'm using XP so WASAPI does not apply? (Vista, Win7 only). I tried Kernel Streaming plugin for Foobar but that muted playback totally.
 I'm not sure if ASIO is possible for this device under XP.
   
  I agree that drop-outs are not acceptable - no matter how good the sound quality is, but it seems that the DI demands a well-optimised PC playback source.

 thanks - Stuart


----------



## Trapper32

Yes, its not a good idea to defrag a SSD.   My foobar was giving me hiccups till i set my buffer length to 50ms.    Also I found that different usb  ports on my computer did make a difference...


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





stuarth said:


> @upstateguy:
> >>the start up  delay is usually related to the foobar buffer length ........  how high do you have yours set?
> 
> Mine is set to the default of* 1000mS *- I tried a smaller value (200) and that did not seem to help at the time.
> ...


 

 As mentioned above, it's not a good idea to defrag your SSD...
   
  I have mine sent on 1980ms, the other end of the default setting.  The slight selection delay doesn't bother me at all.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





			
				Trapper32 said:
			
		

> /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Yes, its not a good idea to defrag a SSD.   My foobar was giving me hiccups till i set my buffer length to 50ms.    *Also I found that different usb  ports on my computer did make a difference...*


 
   
  As Trapper32 said, It's worth checking to see how many devices are on each USB port. It will probably work best on it's own port.
   
  Also, disable e-mail checking if you have it enabled and any other program that automatically accesses the internet for updates.


----------



## Pacha

Quote:


stuarth said:


> 2. Disabled display driver in Windows and shifted video processing to the CPU - following this advice from the CiCs people:
> http://www.cicsmemoryplayer.com/index.php?n=CMP.07Optimisations
> 
> I had already carried most of the other steps listed in the cics article.


 
   
  You don't need to apply all the settings mentionned in the link you posted, you're not trying to break a benchmark world record.
  Running Win XP if you have enough RAM should be fine (512MB min for basic office use, 1GB to 2GB for multimedia, 4 (3 recognized with xp 32) for heavy multitasking, usage of creativity softwares etc).
  Check that you don't have bad memory (search memtest86+), that you don't have too many programs running and that your CPU is not under heavy load while you play music.
  I would have said to run a hdd surface test but you have a SSD so...
  Try ASIO with default buffer size, or KS plugin also.


----------



## borrego

Stuarth,
   
  Getting nearly 2 hours without drop out is quite impressive already. I would settle for that myself.
   
  Base on my experience of using 5 different notebooks (2005 IBM T43, 2007 IBM X61, 2007 Dell D520, 2008 Samsung NC10, 2009 HP Probook4310s) with the DI, the amount of drop outs is inverting proposional to the (1) level of power management capability of the chipset, and (2) number of built-in USB devices (web cam, bluetooth module, card reader, fingerprint scanner, etc) with the notebook.
   
  With my 2005 IBM T43 running WinXP and ASIO, I only experience drop out during busy hard drive read/write of running other apps, or moving the notebook around physically. It is with the oldest Intel chipset, with only 2 USB ports, no webcam, no card reader, no fingerprint reader and no bluetooth module.... Too bad its hard drive died last week and I can't find any cheap PATA hard drive replacement.
   
  I am actually quite tempted to buy a USB 3.0 express card to use with the DI, Because it will have proprietary windows drivers which most likely does not support power management, not connected to the USB hub of the motherboard chipset, and have no other USB devices to affect


----------



## notThinking

Ha ha   This is so funny. I came to Head-Fi after finding it impossible to listen to Dave Matthews latest CD though DT-770 and my new Dell Win7 laptop.

 After a couple of week lurking around HF I have the DAC-19/C-2 combo stuck in custom and one week in on the LCD-2 waiting list.
 What's so funny is that 'Disable all Enhancements' as posted by 'K3cT' on page 62 made the sound bearable her. Muschy undefined bass/mid and terrible 'digital' treble cleared up a lot when disabling this 'enhancements'. Thank you Dell for messing up the sound on my JBL enabled laptop. Without your 'help' I might never discovered the fun of head-fi.

 A note to you folks messing with these settings. My experience is that It's often a god idea to exit the player when chancing parameters for the sound driver. Some of them will not take effect before source are restarted, and some wont take effect at all course the driver is busy.

 I'm following this thread hoping to see if anyone have experience with the DI as a coax re-clocker. As I understand it it didn't make a difference with the DAC-19 as USB interface. Which make me think that the DPS1 and DSP3 share some of this code and any issue with the DI as USB device might also affect the DAC-19DSP ?


----------



## haloxt

It's a good idea to compare the spdif out of a normal cd player to your computer usb or spdif out. If you notice something drastically different, chances are the the computer software settings need some tweaking.


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





dukja said:


> This seems to be a too broad statement.  Drop-out is not normal and not acceptable.  Please don't make impression that it is normal for DI.  And I hope that you would find a cure eventually for DI is such a wonderful sounding device.


 

  I don't disagree that the DI is a wonderful sounding device. It sounds better than the SPDIF out from my Yamaha DVD-S1800 for example. I regretted that I didn't buy the version A of the DI so I can route the DVD player output through it.
   
  The drop out is Windows and computer chipset related. Some fellows here has pointed out that using Linux will completely get rid of the drop off. Also all my PCs are notebook so I don't know if desktop will do better because of less power management.
   
  So I don't think my statement is too broad or critiziing. As least I have tried the DI on 5 notebooks running WinXP/VIsta/7 32/64 bits, including on my brand new HP4310s which I had reinstalled Windows 7 Pro 64 bits and with just Foobar2000 installed.
   
  Computer as Source is always a compromise between convenience and quality. The total cost of my HP notebook + DI is more expensive than the Audio-gd CD7-FE. I do beleive the CD7-FE has much better SPDIF output but it can't play DVD audio.


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





notthinking said:


> Ha ha   This is so funny. I came to Head-Fi after finding it impossible to listen to Dave Matthews latest CD though DT-770 and my new Dell Win7 laptop.


 

  Out of my 5 notebooks, the Dell Latitude D520 is the one having the most drop out. I bought it cheap for my wife to use at home but was also hoping to use the SPDIF out on its docking station (available on ebay for very cheap price). It just that I can't get either Windows XP/7 to recognize its SPDIF out.


----------



## dukja

No hard feeling.  Just try to make balanced observation. 
   
  I have never experience drop out (after fixing the bugs) using computer as source when I start to pick up HeadFi since 2009.  (Listened to traditional CD + speaker in the past).  I would never use computer as source if I ever experience constant drop out.
   
  And I have used my lowly Acer AS 1410 (Win 7), office Dell dual-core desktop (Win XP), or my $5k number crunching gear Dell 8-core server (Win 7 64-bit, just for debugging).  None of them drop off when bugs are fixed.
   
  On the opposite, even the 8-core 24G RAM machine with single USB connection to DI dropped out when the same old bug was not nailed down. 
   
  So, my point was that if you did not get to solve the exact problem, other things do not matter much.  I do hope that I can answer what that exact problem is.  But now I can not reproduce the drop out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







  
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *borrego* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> The drop out is Windows and computer chipset related. Some fellows here has pointed out that using Linux will completely get rid of the drop off. Also all my PCs are notebook so I don't know if desktop will do better because of less power management.
> 
> ...


----------



## stuarth

Quote: 





pacha said:


> You don't need to apply all the settings mentionned in the link you posted, you're not trying to break a benchmark world record.
> Running Win XP if you have enough RAM should be fine (512MB min for basic office use, 1GB to 2GB for multimedia, 4 (3 recognized with xp 32) for heavy multitasking, usage of creativity softwares etc).
> Check that you don't have bad memory (search memtest86+), that you don't have too many programs running and that your CPU is not under heavy load while you play music.
> I would have said to run a hdd surface test but you have a SSD so...
> Try ASIO with default buffer size, or KS plugin also.


 

 Pacha,
   
  I assure you I don't enjoy registry editing just for fun! ; )  It's a means to an end.
   
  When I switched from the HRT MusicStreamer to the DI/ NFB1 I found that some more optimisations were necessary - not to attain some 'golden ear' standard but to be able to listen to music without interrruptions. The changes definitely helped, even though I'm not quite sure which ones were most effective! Now that I've got things pretty much sorted on that front I hope I will stop fiddling and leave well alone.
   
  The improvement in sound quality has been well worth it, but I'm glad I started my computer audio experience with the HRT which just worked 'out of the box' without any PC tweaks.
   
  Stuart


----------



## regal

Quote: 





borrego said:


> Stuarth,
> 
> Getting nearly 2 hours without drop out is quite impressive already. I would settle for that myself.
> 
> ...


 

 I think the MB plays a big part in dropouts.  My old P4 Asus MB never once had a dropout running a PCI0404.  Then my Abit IP35pro had dropouts galore with WinXP,  a lot less with Win7.  I just ordered a PCIE USB board that has its own power plug,  hoping that is the answer.


----------



## dukja

I would like to report back how much I enjoy DI.  Since my 2nd DI + PSU has just arrived, I brought back the one already burn-in home to pair with PSA DLIII.  And I was immensely blessed by DI.  It totally changed the sound of my home gear.
   
  When I got T1 to mate with Phoenix and Ref-1, I realize my 2nd system has diffused and a little bit veiled sound in comparison. (I never realized that before comparison).  That prompted me to try out  CSP 2+ with Ref-1 and my conclusion was that I needed another Ref-7 so I can bring Ref-1 home to save my home system.
   
  But now I brought back DI first (Ref-7 is still in transit), and I was surprised that the diffused and veiled problem is almost cured by DI already (now I wonder if I really need 2nd Ref1/7 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ).  Compare to the USB input to DLIII, SPFID provided by DI has much better 3D soundstage definition. Before, the stage was wide but 2D-like and distant from me.  Now with DI the sound changed to be quite engaging but still open up to a larger and deeper stage.  The sonic profile of solo instrument was sharp, clear, and standing out with excellent contrast to the background/supporting music.  Each note has its full body and proper weight with nice sparkling and decay.  And the bass is full and impactful. This DI + DLIII + CSP2+ really push my Necleotide (ZX) recabled DT880/600 ohm to a pinnacle that I have never imagined.  This combo may not have the razor sharp resolution of T1 and clarity, but it strikes on the right balance between being sharp and too sharp to bleed.
   
  I was quite surprised by the improvement brought in by DI + PSU.  Very happy about it.  Now I'll see what Ref-1/7 will bring in after this...


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





dukja said:


> I would like to report back how much I enjoy DI.  Since my 2nd DI + PSU has just arrived, I brought back the one already burn-in home to pair with PSA DLIII.  And I was immensely blessed by DI.  It totally changed the sound of my home gear.
> 
> When I got T1 to mate with Phoenix and Ref-1, I realize my 2nd system has diffused and a little bit veiled sound in comparison. (I never realized that before comparison).  That prompted me to try out  CSP 2+ with Ref-1 and my conclusion was that I needed another Ref-7 so I can bring Ref-1 home to save my home system.
> 
> ...


 

 Hi
   
  I wonder if you could take a look at your Device manager and see how much power the DI draws.
   
  Thanks
   
  USG


----------



## dukja

I'll try if you tell me where to look.  I cannot find any data from device manager.
  Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> I wonder if you could take a look at your Device manager and see how much power the DI draws.


----------



## notThinking

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> Hi
> I wonder if you could take a look at your Device manager and see how much power the DI draws.
> 
> Thanks
> ...


 

 I don't have the DI, but the website says 300mA.


----------



## sayh

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Drawing 500mA
   
  win7 x64


----------



## upstateguy

sayh said:


> Drawing 500mA
> 
> win7 x64







Thanks. Too much for an iPad without a powered hub though........ Need something around 100mA. (A HiFace would work if it didn't need special drivers.)


----------



## sokolov91

just wondering:
   
  is there any reason someone who owns a high end soundcard, with proper coaxial out would want a DI?
   
  I mean I can do oversampling, pass-through, up to 24/192, add digital effects like dolby...
   
  Or is this only an alternative to a proper soundcard?


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote: 





sokolov91 said:


> just wondering:
> 
> is there any reason someone who owns a high end soundcard, with proper coaxial out would want a DI?
> 
> ...


 

 You'd want a DI over anything else unless you'd want to spend a crap load of money.
  If you're after great imaging and a neutral sound then this is what you need. It blows away in terms of SQ any soundcard that I used, the hiface and the hiface jkeny mod.
  I don't need Dolby or any other phony gizmo feature so this is good for me.


----------



## dukja

Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> You'd want a DI over anything else unless you'd want to spend a crap load of money.
> If you're after great imaging and a neutral sound then this is what you need. It blows away in terms of SQ any soundcard that I used, the hiface and the hiface jkeny mod.
> I don't need Dolby or any other phony gizmo feature so this is good for me.


 

 Exactly.  I was hesitate spending more money on the transport after buying the expensive headphone, amp, and DAC.  I was only forced to by a USB/SPFID because Ref-1 only takes that. 
  
  Then, I start to try USB/SPFID on my DLIII.  I always thought DLIII has blurred sound and hence plan to replace it with Ref-1 after I got Ref-7 for my primary system.  Boy! DI showed my how I was wrong about DLIII.  DI basically totally changed my desired to replace DLIII any time soon (although Ref-1 wouldn't hurt either 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).  This makes me start to pay more attention on the transport side of equation.


----------



## fengshenwee

Have u all tried different USD cables with the DI?


----------



## punk_guy182

According to Kingwa, the USB cable doesn't have that much of an impact on the sound. However, the S/PDIF cable will have a greater impact.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> You'd want a DI over anything else unless you'd want to spend a crap load of money.
> If you're after great imaging and a neutral sound then this is what you need. It blows away in terms of SQ any soundcard that I used, the hiface and the hiface jkeny mod.
> I don't need Dolby or any other phony gizmo feature so this is good for me.


 

 DI is better than Hiface? Can it be powered using an ADuM4160 USB Isolator?


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





dukja said:


> I'll try if you tell me where to look.  I cannot find any data from device manager.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  FYI:   my computer > properties > hardware > device manager > universal serial bus controllers >  USB Root Hub (open each one to see where it is) > power


----------



## sokolov91

Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I don't need dolby either, but it is just another "+"
   
  also, I was referring to REAL soundcards, not hiface or any of those other usb to spdif converters. My soundcard is an Asus STX


----------



## Pacha

Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


   
   
  I wish you were right, I've ordered my DI + PSU since 9th of november, and still no DI 20 days after. The parcel is lost in transit between China and France, tracking stop at leaving Guangzhou, and no parcel arrive to France though.
  Who has hijacked my DI?


----------



## tim3320070

Have you tried tracking through your local carrier vs. the Chinese site? In the US, our carrier tracking provides more info after it leaves China.


----------



## gevorg

Quote: 





sokolov91 said:


> just wondering:
> 
> is there any reason someone who owns a high end soundcard, with proper coaxial out would want a DI?
> 
> ...


 


  It depends on your computer, but highend sound cards in a proper setup can be very good transports and even DACs. If you go to the extreme of configuring/modding your computer just for audio duties, you might be able to surpass the performance of any "exotic" USB converter. Checkout cPlay and cMP threads on Audio Asylum (thread: http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=31286). On the other hand, using a USB converter is much easier to do.


----------



## Pacha

Quote:


tim3320070 said:


> Have you tried tracking through your local carrier vs. the Chinese site? In the US, our carrier tracking provides more info after it leaves China.


 


  Yes I did, and there was no tracking available in France, it was said to be in China. I've called the local carrier yesterday and they told me they had no more info about that, except that there's a lot of problems with parcels coming from China at the moment.
  Hopefully it finally arrived today to French international airport.
   
  Now I have Furutech plugs coming from USA which experience the same problem. I called USPS for further info but they asked me to call the sender so that he calls USPS, in order they open an investigation. What a mess, I'm totally doomed.


----------



## slim.a

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I also found the DI (slightly) better than battery powered Hiface (jkeny's Hiface) which is already a big step up from the stock Hiface.
   
  I was able to use the Digital Interface with USB2ISO (ADUM) isolator but the improvement was small (baurely noticeable) in comparison with what the USB2ISO isolator brought to the Musiland Monitor and Teralink X2.
   
  On the other hand, upgrading the stock clock with a 1ps Tentlabs XO provide a noticeable improvement (more natural sound and better flow of the music amongst other things).
  According to Kingwa, the clock works only when the upsampling is engaged (which I use). I have chatted a little bit with Kingwa regarding the upsampling and we share similar findings (i.e upsampling makes an improvement). I know that some "purists" look down at upsampling but the same could be said for oversampling used in most DACs. Once we depart from NOS (non oversampling), I personally don't care about what kind of processing is done as long as it sounds good.
  I have also compared a few (same) tracks at 16/44 and 24/96 bought from HD Tracks and Linn Records and the upsampling on the DI is the one that gets the 16/44 files sound closer to the 24/96 native files. I tried different software upsampler (SoX, Secret Rabitt cods, PPHS...) and none of them comes close to the upsampling on the DI which is rather surprising since in theory the software upsamplers have the advantage of dealing with stored data while the DI has to deal with real time (jittery) data. It has perhaps to do something with the clocking being better at 96K than it is at 44.1K.
  BTW, using a good clock such the Tentlabs should yield better results especially for those who don't use any power filtration (better clocks usually buy you better power supply noise rejection and better clock phase noise).


----------



## BenBau

Yesterday my Digital Interface with external power supply arrived, replacing a hiFace BNC. Time between order and delivery was exactly 6 weeks.
  Using the XP build in driver did not work using WinAMP and Kernel Streaming. After installing the TeraLink-X drivers, 16/44 and Kernel Streaming worked, but for 24/96 I have to use TeraLink ASIO (16/44 sounds awkward using ASIO).
   
  I did not expect a dramatic improvement, but WOW this is huge.
  The most important improvement are the highs. These are much more precise, not "rough" or sharp anymore. This really was the only complaint in my setup.
  Also imaging is a lot better.
   
  That's it, I'm finished now, audio Nirvana at last.


----------



## bacardi

where can i get those teralink drivers? I really would like to use xp again


----------



## shogo33

Quote: 





benbau said:


> Yesterday my Digital Interface with external power supply arrived, replacing a hiFace BNC. Time between order and delivery was exactly 6 weeks.
> Using the XP build in driver did not work using WinAMP and Kernel Streaming. After installing the TeraLink-X drivers, 16/44 and Kernel Streaming worked, but for 24/96 I have to use TeraLink ASIO (16/44 sounds awkward using ASIO).
> 
> I did not expect a dramatic improvement, but WOW this is huge.
> ...


 

 I wasnt expecting much of a difference when i first got it as one of the beta testers.  It was heaps better than my old Hiface BNC. Like you, i noticed improvements to the soundstage, much wider, highs were more textured with lots of decay. Bass was much tighter and had better definition. On my setup, the Hiface exibited more lower mid bass bloat, which i didnt like.  But with the DI + class A PSU, that midbass bloat dissapeared.  I'm also using it with my disc spinner (OPPO 83SE) via coax out, and i'm hearing the above improvements routing the digital signal via the DI.


----------



## BenBau

Quote: 





bacardi said:


> where can i get those teralink drivers? I really would like to use xp again


 


  It's in the TeraLink-X2 thread in "dedicated source components" over here at head-fi.org :
   
http://cid-1eb7027489224a7d.office.live.com/browse.aspx/Teralink-X2%20ASIO%20driver%20%5E50.9%20beta%5E6
   
  edit: you need the top file from the list


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





benbau said:


> Yesterday my Digital Interface with external power supply arrived, replacing a hiFace BNC. Time between order and delivery was exactly 6 weeks.
> Using the XP build in driver did not work using WinAMP and Kernel Streaming. After installing the TeraLink-X drivers, 16/44 and Kernel Streaming worked, but for 24/96 I have to use TeraLink ASIO (16/44 sounds awkward using ASIO).
> 
> I did not expect a dramatic improvement, but WOW this is huge.
> ...


 

 That's a long wait. They don't have them in stock?


----------



## BenBau

Kingwa told me they are made "by batch". Maybe when you order now, there is stock.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





slim.a said:


> I also found the DI (slightly) better than battery powered Hiface (jkeny's Hiface) which is already a big step up from the stock Hiface.
> 
> I was able to use the Digital Interface with USB2ISO (ADUM) isolator but the improvement was small (baurely noticeable) in comparison with what the USB2ISO isolator brought to the Musiland Monitor and Teralink X2.
> 
> ...


 

  
  Power wise, is the external PSU better than ADuM power?


----------



## bacardi

Quote: 





benbau said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Thanks


----------



## Pacha

I've just received my DI with PSU, but cannot play mp3 files nor 24 bits files in Winamp with KS. 16 bits Flac files play normally though.
   
  I've installed Teralink X2 drivers and ASIO and everything works, I cannot change volume with Winamp but I can play files in 88.2KHz and also I can hear other apps and internet sounds so I'm not in bitperfect exclusive mode!
   
  What could I do??
   
  EDIT : I've installed ASIO4ALL and everything is fine, I can play any file except 88.2 which is normal as the Tenor chip doesn't handle it.
   
  Now time to let the DI burn-in, and see after what does the PSU bring to the party.


----------



## slim.a

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 In my system the external PSU (plugged to a BADA power filter) provided a bigger improvement than the use of the ADUM. But it all comes down to how noisy the ground of the computer is vs. whatever you are supplying to the DI: it is very hard to make grand generalizations IMO.
  BTW, I went into what devices benefited more from the ADUM in my review here.


----------



## slim.a

Quote: 





pacha said:


> I've just received my DI with PSU, but cannot play mp3 files nor 24 bits files in Winamp with KS. 16 bits Flac files play normally though.
> 
> I've installed Teralink X2 drivers and ASIO and everything works, I cannot change volume with Winamp but I can play files in 88.2KHz and also I can hear other apps and internet sounds so I'm not in bitperfect exclusive mode!
> 
> ...


 

 BTW, whenever 88.2 files seem to be playing with a Tenor base usb converter (Teralink X2, DI...), it just means that there is software upsampling going on, and it is usually converted to 96.
 I personally found that by using SoX upsampling on 88.2 files, I get better results than letting the "stock" upsampling doing its work.
   
  I really hope that at some points there will be a chip that allows for 88.2K. So far, it is my biggest complaint about the DI.
   
  Regarding burn-in, I would allow the DI to burn-in for around a week. It improves considerably during that period. Also, even after weeks of use, I find that the Digital Interface benefits from being always left on.
  I know that some people don't like/recommend leaving equipment always on but I have found that both the Digital Interface and the dac19dsp sounds considerably better after being left continuously on for 1 to 2 days. I don't hear the same improvement with warm up with the headphone amps and the FUN. So I am suspecting it might have something to do with the DSP boards.


----------



## Pacha

Quote:


slim.a said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I personally let the DAC-19 and the C2 always on, and I will let the DI always on also.
  My setup is now a bit weird looking because of the use of the RCA adapter between DI and DAC-19. The jkeny HiFace wasn't that big and fitted behind the DAC quite well but now the bigger DI plugged in reverse side leaning over the ACSS cable just beneath and PSU next to it makes the whole thing to look a bit oddly tweaked but it doesn't matter.
  I will let it enough time to burn-in but so far I've already found the soundstage to be bigger than the HiFace, and PSU to bring an obvious difference even if currently not plugged to a power filter (it will be within the next few days).
  I've directly set the upsampling to 96K with jumper on the 3rd position on MMD0 (I hope I was correct with the placement).
  I'll see how does it compare to stock settings after the DI gets more settled in.
   
  Do you use SoX upsampling only to play the 88.2 files or also all other files?


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





slim.a said:


> In my system the external PSU (plugged to a BADA power filter) provided a bigger improvement than the use of the ADUM. But it all comes down to how noisy the ground of the computer is vs. whatever you are supplying to the DI: it is very hard to make grand generalizations IMO.
> BTW, I went into what devices benefited more from the ADUM in my review here.


 

 Thanks for that link and a thorough review.


----------



## slim.a

Quote: 





pacha said:


> Quote:
> 
> I personally let the DAC-19 and the C2 always on, and I will let the DI always on also.
> My setup is now a bit weird looking because of the use of the RCA adapter between DI and DAC-19. The jkeny HiFace wasn't that big and fitted behind the DAC quite well but now the bigger DI plugged in reverse side leaning over the ACSS cable just beneath and PSU next to it makes the whole thing to look a bit oddly tweaked but it doesn't matter.
> ...


 

 In order to get upsampling to 96K, I believe that you also need to have jumper number 6 (NO-C) set to 0.
   
  Regarding SoX, I only use it for 88.2 files (thankfully most of my high rez files are 96). I don't use it for other files as I find that the DI upsampler is better, or that the files are better left at their native sample rate (when using jkeny's hiface) than using SoX.


----------



## tim3320070

Why would upsampling 44.1 to 96 (which many prefer anyway) be different than upsampling 88.2 to 96? Major splitting hairs here and a non issue IMO. They all sound great.


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

slim.a,
   
  Which clock on the DI did you replace with the tentlabs XO? This seems like an interesting tweak. Is there any specific frequency to use for the replacement?
   
  I was also going to rewire the internal wires from the BNC to the DI board with the Illuminati hookup cables.
  
  Quote: 





slim.a said:


> I also found the DI (slightly) better than battery powered Hiface (jkeny's Hiface) which is already a big step up from the stock Hiface.
> 
> I was able to use the Digital Interface with USB2ISO (ADUM) isolator but the improvement was small (baurely noticeable) in comparison with what the USB2ISO isolator brought to the Musiland Monitor and Teralink X2.
> 
> ...


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> ..... I find that the Digital Interface benefits from being always left on.


 
   
  But it should be noted that the Audio-gd power supply is meant to be turned off when not in use.
   
From the Audio-gd site:    http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USBface/Digital1EN.htm
   
  [size=small]*




*[/size][size=small]*  Digital Interface external power supply:
     *[/size][size=x-small]1, Connect the DC power cable between Digital Interface and the External power box.
      2, Push the power selector to "DC IN".
      3, Power on the power box.
      *4, Because the External power box is work on Class A, so if it don't power supply for the Digital Interface, please shut down it.*[/size]


----------



## Pacha

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Yes but it's if you power the DI through USB and connect the PSU I guess, you don't want the PSU to be left on if you use USB power. But I may be wrong.
  Or maybe he forgot "need" in his sentence. If you don't need power for the DI, then shut everything off. That's maybe what he meant.


----------



## Pacha

Quote: 





slim.a said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Oh you're right, I totally missed that on the settings pic on the website, I'll try the setting today, thanks.
   
  I'll also take a look at SoX to be able to read my 88.2 files, though not a big deal for me neither as I only have few of them.


----------



## Pacha

Could anyone tell me what can I do to have bitperfect exclusive mode, really gapless, with the DI and Winamp?
   
   
  - Winamp KS plugin with the DI only reads FLAC files in 16/44 (everything was fine with the HiFace).
   
  - there are gaps between tracks with ASIO plugin and ASIO4ALL
  - WASAPI plugin for Winamp : no gaps between tracks, exclusive mode is working (no sound with other apps or on web pages), and I can play any kind of file (even 88.2) with the DI, but that means the plugin is resampling.


----------



## Pacha

So far as some others here I prefer the bypass mode over 96KHz upsampling (MMD0 and NO-C jumpers on the pins).
   
  I find the 96KHz to push everything backwards, creating a "hall" effect, pleasant on some recordings, but for the rest I find it to have less impact, less contrast, and possibly less focus. Details are still the same though in each mode.
  In "Get Behind the Mule" on head-fi hdtracks 24/96 cd, I found the bypass mode to reveal the tone of the shoe taping the ground at the beginning better than the upsampling mode which rather let hear the impact but not easily the different strengths of impact and placement of the foot as in bypass mode.


----------



## punk_guy182

Dude!  Scew Winamp and just get Foobar2000 with the WASAPI plugin. That will solve all your problems.
   
http://www.foobar2000.org/
   

  
  Quote: 





pacha said:


> Could anyone tell me what can I do to have bitperfect exclusive mode, really gapless, with the DI and Winamp?


----------



## Pacha

I have already tried foobar and it's fine but I don't like the ergonomics at all. Ok it's skinnable a lot etc but I don't want to start tweaking it right now.
   
  Anyway, I've just A/B foobar and Winamp on hi-res files and I find no difference using wasapi, so that's fine for me, I'll stick with Winamp with wasapi plugin which apparently auto-upsample only when necessary.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





pacha said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I think they were referring to the *Class A circuitry* as the reason to turn it off when not in use.....
  
  Quote: 





pacha said:


> I have already tried foobar and it's fine but I don't like the ergonomics at all. Ok it's skinnable a lot etc but I don't want to start tweaking it right now.
> 
> Anyway, I've just A/B foobar and Winamp on hi-res files and I find no difference using wasapi, so that's fine for me, I'll stick with *Winamp with wasapi plugin which apparently auto-upsample only when necessary.*


 

 How would the plugin know when to auto-upsample?  In other words, how does the plugin know if you're using a Tenor chip'd device or a Blue Circle Thingee, (for instance)?
   
  Also, is it confirmed that the DI will not run without Tenor drivers?
   
  Which do you think the sounds better, your DI or your modded HiFace? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  USG


----------



## shogo33

> > On the other hand, upgrading the stock clock with a 1ps Tentlabs XO provide a noticeable improvement (more natural sound and better flow of the music amongst other things).
> > According to Kingwa, the clock works only when the upsampling is engaged (which I use). I have chatted a little bit with Kingwa regarding the upsampling and we share similar findings (i.e upsampling makes an improvement). I know that some "purists" look down at upsampling but the same could be said for oversampling used in most DACs. O
> >
> >
> > BTW, using a good clock such the Tentlabs should yield better results especially for those who don't use any power filtration (better clocks usually buy you better power supply noise rejection and better clock phase noise).


 

 Hi Slim,
   
  Is the Tentlab's XO be a drop in replacement for the DI?  I can see the location of stock XO used in the DI unit, but am unsure if this Tentlab's version mentioned can be a 'drop in' replacement.  I think the stock XO is rated at 24,5760MHz.  If posszible, then I might buy one rated at the same speed - 24.576mhz and replace the existing stock version.
   
  cheers


----------



## Pacha

Quote:


upstateguy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  
  - About auto-upsampling only when needed : see the last sentence of this comment of the dude who developed the wasapi plugin :
   http://forums.winamp.com/showpost.php?p=2627914&postcount=30
   
   
   
  - About Tenor drivers : I've installed them through the Teralink X2 (which uses Tenor chip) drivers package along with the Teralink ASIO drivers and it worked but not bitperfect exclusive mode as I could play other files with any other player in the same time, plus I could change volume everywhere etc.
   
  - So I went with no specific drivers (only windows 7 auto installed drivers, provided by microsoft) and Kernel Streaming : only 16/44.1 FLAC files played, no mp3, no 24/96 files.
   
  - I tried otachan ASIO plugin with ASIO4ALL, everything was fine, no auto-upsampling when needed so 88.2 files didn't play but that's not a big deal for me as I have few of them. The main issue which everybody experience with ASIO is that you have gaps between tracks so that bothered me a lot
   
  - I searched WASAPI plugins for winamp : there is Maiko plugin but which doesn't work in exclusive mode, not implemented yet. There is also the adionsoft plugin which I'm now using and work flawlessly with no difference in sound with Kernel Streaming or ASIO with Winamp, or with WASAPI with foobar.
   
   
   
  - I will for sure compare the jkeny HiFace and the DI when the DI will have enough burn-in, and I will sell the one I don't want to keep in the end.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





pacha said:


> - About auto-upsampling only when needed : see the last sentence of this comment of the dude who developed the wasapi plugin :
> http://forums.winamp.com/showpost.php?p=2627914&postcount=30
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Wow, that's a lot of stuff.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Does the auto upsample only work for the Winamp plugin?
  Could you explain a little more about the gaps between songs? Is there a sound you hear between the songs or just a delay? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'm running XP on my rigs for compatibility.  (The new W7 laptop I bought doesn't play with the rest of the computers in my network.)  Do you know how the DI works with
  XP?
   
  The other thing was that I thought of using the DI with my ipad, which will output a digital stream though the camera connection dongle.  It doesn't look like this is going to work if it needs drivers or ASIO or anything more than the built in USB....  too bad ---> 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   It would have been nice to stream high bit rate internet radio from the ipad to my Northstar DAC without having to turn on a computer.  Now it looks like I'll have to use the Blue Circle Thingee and a powered usb hub.
   
  You don't really have to wait for burn in, since it's very controversial,  what's you opinion at this point in time between the DI and the modded HiFace?


----------



## dukja

According to the switch photo posted in this thread, if only NO-C is set to 0 (which leave D0 and D1 to its default setting 1), then DI only upsample to 48k.  It seems that D0 also need to be set to 0 with a jumper in order to get 96k.
   
  And I tried 96k again with DLIII, which has default 96k sampling.  The soundstage becomes wider but flatter.  It also sounds quite artificial to me.  The sound also becomes loosened and brighter.  With both my gears (DLIII+CSP2+DT800/600 and Ref-7+Phoenix+T1), the non-upsampling (original) setting sounds better and has more believable soundstage (to my ear). 

  
  Quote: 





slim.a said:


> In order to get upsampling to 96K, I believe that you also need to have jumper number 6 (NO-C) set to 0.
> 
> Regarding SoX, I only use it for 88.2 files (thankfully most of my high rez files are 96). I don't use it for other files as I find that the DI upsampler is better, or that the files are better left at their native sample rate (when using jkeny's hiface) than using SoX.


----------



## Pacha

Yes that is indeed MMD0 + NO-C pins which need jumpers to get 96kHz upsampling, otherwise jumper on MMD0 only won't do anything, and jumper on NO-C only will enable 48kHz upsampling as you said.
   
  I made the same observations as you did on bypass mode and 96kHz upsampling, I'll personally stick with bypass mode.


----------



## Pacha

Quote:


upstateguy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I've tried foobar with WASAPI plugin and I can't play 88.2 files so no auto-upsampling only when needed with WASAPI plugin in foobar. So except if using SoX or something else to upsample, for me yes only adionsoft WASAPI plugin has "built-in" auto-upsampling. Otherwise, which algorithm is used for upsampling, I don't know. it's said to be "high quality" but I didn't take time to compare with add-on upsampling on foobar on 88.2 files as I only have few of them and don't listen to them a lot.
   
  gapless mode : enabled or not in the otachan ASIO plugin control panel I have a short pause between tracks, so with long fade out songs that's not an issue but when listening to a live or records where the songs follow on that's like your computer has gone stuck for a second or if there was a intentionally added pause between tracks, that gets quickly annoying.
  
  I don't know with the DI and XP as I've upgraded to 7 x64 quite recently but had no occasion to try it with XP so I don't know if it is recognized and auto-installed with microsoft generic drivers like it is with 7.
  What do you mean "play in your network"? Your XP rigs don't see the 7 pc, or vice versa?
   
  I'm to compare the DI and modified HiFace within the next few days, for now I will see how the Audio-gd power filter plant performs. I've also just ordered a DSP-1 V5 for testing. Too bad I couldn't get my V4 upgraded. It will certainly land in the for sale section here if somebody's interested.


----------



## Pacha

What power filtering do you guys use for the DI if any?


----------



## Pacha

So far without having directly compared jkeny HiFace VS DI, I find the DI to sound much better. I'll run some tests to confirm this and see where do are all the differences come from as I've plugged the DAC-19 to the -70dB filter now so it may have impacted the sound also in the way of following detailed improvements.
  So with no direct comparison again, before using the power filter, and with DI's PSU, I find imaging to be much better on DI, soundstage also, and it doesn't sound harsh as HiFace could be, dynamics are far better and there definitely seems to be more details (which has rather appeared when I plugged the DAC-19 to the filtered oultet). I currently have DI plugged in the power filter plant with Furutech US plug but I'm not yet using filtering on the plant for the DI, I'm using Direct output.


----------



## slim.a

Quote: 





rhythmic_impulse said:


> slim.a,
> 
> Which clock on the DI did you replace with the tentlabs XO? This seems like an interesting tweak. Is there any specific frequency to use for the replacement?
> 
> ...


 


   


  Quote: 





shogo33 said:


> > > On the other hand, upgrading the stock clock with a 1ps Tentlabs XO provide a noticeable improvement (more natural sound and better flow of the music amongst other things).
> > > According to Kingwa, the clock works only when the upsampling is engaged (which I use). I have chatted a little bit with Kingwa regarding the upsampling and we share similar findings (i.e upsampling makes an improvement). I know that some "purists" look down at upsampling but the same could be said for oversampling used in most DACs. O
> > >
> > >
> ...


 

  
  I bought a 24.576MHz Tentlabs clock (see specs here: http://www.tentlabs.com/Components/XO/index.html). I didn't have any prior experience upgrading clocks but the Tentlabs looked very good on paper (1ps and very low clock phase noise). There might be better clocks for that application for all that I know and I will be curious to try a new one if I am pointed to the right direction.

 It is an easy replacement to do (similar to swapping a DIP8 opamp). It should be noted that it is only used for upsampling (according to Kingwa).
   
  Regarding upsampling, I think that everybody should try it at least once to see if it works in their system. But there are too many factors at play to make generalizations. Some of the factors I identified that could affect the outcome: quality of the power supply to the clock (external power supply, power cord, power filter), digital cable, DAC (digital receiver, digital filter,...)... and most importantly, personal preference.
   
  One thing that seems to show in my testing though is that the jitter reduction is "better" when the upsampling is engaged. I tried the Musiland as a transport (and using the DI as a reclocker) and I got some pretty interesting results.
  When having the upsampling bypassed, the sound of the Musiland is improved (over direct connection to the DAC) but its sonic signature is still a little bit apparent. When turning the upsampling on to 96K I got excellent results that were surprising in the sense that I actually prefer the sound the through "ADUM - Wireworld Ultraviolet USB - Musiland - Hifi Cables Sobek digital cable - DI" than the direct connection to the "ADUM - Wireworld Ultraviolet USB - DI".
  By using even the jittery Musiland as a transport, I got an improvement over the USB input of the DI: mostly bigger soundstage and a "richer" more diversified sound.
  This probably means that the DI has some good jitter rejection (at the DSP3 level) and a good output stage but that its usb side is really lacking (in comparison).
   
  In his comparison (here) Audio Bling described some of the shortcomings of the DI in comparison with the more expensive Empirical Audio converters. Now that I have tried the Musiland in its spidf input, I get a better understanding of his comments and I feel that there is still room for improvement in the usb side. I wonder why Kingwa doesn't partner with Musiland or M2Tech (for example) to get their usb/software side. I am pretty sure that running a Musiland through the same linear power supply as the DI and eschewing the digital cable I was using will yield even better results.
   
  Also, for those who might be interested, Kingrex asked me to review their upcoming UC192 usb to spdif converter (which will be selling for $189). A good thing about the Kingrex UC192 is that it will be able to handle the 88.2K frequency (as well as 176.4 and 192). So it will be nice to see how they compare to each other given that they are selling in the same price range.
   
  Finally, regarding leaving the Digital Interface always on, I also read the warning on Audio-gd's website. Though, in my case, the external power supply is barely getting warm to the touch. I doubt there will be any damage or shortening of life for the capacitors at these temperatures. Just to be sure, I am going to ask Kingwa what are the risks involved in letting the DI's external power supply always on as I have noticed that the translation in their website lacks subtleties.


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

slim.a, Thanks for the explanation on the XO replacement. From what you decribe, it would appear the stock XO is on the DSP module itself installed in a DIP8 socket. It can be seen easily when the top panel is opened. That should not be too difficult to replace then.


----------



## slim.a

Quote: 





pacha said:


> So far without having directly compared jkeny HiFace VS DI, I find the DI to sound much better. I'll run some tests to confirm this and see where do are all the differences come from as I've plugged the DAC-19 to the -70dB filter now so it may have impacted the sound also in the way of following detailed improvements.
> So with no direct comparison again, before using the power filter, and with DI's PSU, I find imaging to be much better on DI, soundstage also, and it doesn't sound harsh as HiFace could be, dynamics are far better and there definitely seems to be more details (which has rather appeared when I plugged the DAC-19 to the filtered oultet). I currently have DI plugged in the power filter plant with Furutech US plug but I'm not yet using filtering on the plant for the DI, I'm using Direct output.


 

 Keep us updated on your findings regarding the MK1 Hiface vs. DI.
  As for me, I am sending my MK1 Hiface to Jkeny for upgrade to MK2.
  
  Quote: 





rhythmic_impulse said:


> slim.a, Thanks for the explanation on the XO replacement. From what you decribe, it would appear the stock XO is on the DSP module itself installed in a DIP8 socket. It can be seen easily when the top panel is opened. That should not be too difficult to replace then.


 

 It should be very easy indeed: you just remove the XO clock from its socket and you put the new clock in its place. You just have to make sure you introducing the clocks in the same direction (easy thing to check with the writing on the clock and the 3 dot marking on the back).


----------



## SP Wild

Thanks Slim.A for that comparison with upsampling vs computer upsampling.  I always shied away from this product reading that upsampling was the optimum setting for this unit, when I cannot hear how upsampling improves the sound from using various software based upsamplers (Even the upsampling switch on the Bryston DAC changes the sound not for the better or worse, but I preferred no upsampling).  Its good to know that the upsampling on the DI is vastly superior to to any of these software upsamplers. 
   
  The reason I post, is because I am also having an issue with the Tenor USB input on my Reference 7, that I thought I could post here as it seems members here are more experienced on the software side of things.  When I first got the Re7 the USB input worked fine on AISO via JR Media Center 14.  It only ever worked with ASIO once...after wards, the sound just keeps distorting and clipping and stuttering...I thought the USB input was faulty, but when I turned off ASIO and used direct sound...the sound was fine through the Tenor input.
   
  I am using window XP and JR Media 14...The netbook was booted up ASIO worked.  The next time the netbook was booted up was to test the USB input...ASIO faltered.  Nothing else changed between those two timeframes.  I tried all the settings with buffers etc (all of them) and cannot get ASIO to output a clear sound into the Tenor Chip.  No such problems with ASIO and the 16/48 input on the Bryston at all - never ever did have any problems arise with the Brystons USB and ASIO.
   
  Is ASIO really all that necessary? as I am getting a very clean sound out of Direct sound with all the volumes maxed out and no windows sound engaged as per the Benchmark media site.  I do have a desktop...but for whatever reason...the desktop recognises the Tenor input...but I can never get sound out of it, with ASIO posting that yellow error sign next to the Tenor output.  Should I forsake Windows XP and upgrade to Windows 7?


----------



## Pacha

Quote: 





sp wild said:


> Thanks Slim.A for that comparison with upsampling vs computer upsampling.  I always shied away from this product reading that upsampling was the optimum setting for this unit, when I cannot hear how upsampling improves the sound from using various software based upsamplers (Even the upsampling switch on the Bryston DAC changes the sound not for the better or worse, but I preferred no upsampling).  Its good to know that the upsampling on the DI is vastly superior to to any of these software upsamplers.
> 
> The reason I post, is because I am also having an issue with the Tenor USB input on my Reference 7, that I thought I could post here as it seems members here are more experienced on the software side of things.  When I first got the Re7 the USB input worked fine on AISO via JR Media Center 14.  It only ever worked with ASIO once...after wards, the sound just keeps distorting and clipping and stuttering...I thought the USB input was faulty, but when I turned off ASIO and used direct sound...the sound was fine through the Tenor input.
> 
> ...


 

  
   Now that I think about it I had the same problem with XP not recognizing my DAC-19 Tenor chip, which is the same chip as in the DI.
  I couldn't play anything through it. Problem solved using win 7 with the DI, so I guess DAC-19 USB input should work also.
  If you have a win 7 rig or don't mind upgrading to give it a try I suspect it would solve your issue.


----------



## Pacha

It seems like punk_guy was right, I now have more bass with the DI after more burn-in. The device seems to carry on improving.
  I suppose that modified HiFace will easily be on its way for the For Sale section.


----------



## SilverCans

Will win7 64bit work with the DI. I'm about to build a comp with that os


----------



## macrog

Yes. I am using it on Windows 7 64bit.
   
  Some people have experienced some dropouts but instructions for addressing these are posted elsewhere on this thread.
   
  Regards
   
  Macrog


----------



## shogo33

Quote: 





rhythmic_impulse said:


> slim.a, Thanks for the explanation on the XO replacement. From what you decribe, it would appear the stock XO is on the DSP module itself installed in a DIP8 socket. It can be seen easily when the top panel is opened. That should not be too difficult to replace then.


 


  Many thanks Slim!  I will go ahead and get an XO, as I do use upsampling to 96k.  IMO and listening experience, i feel that the sound has better weight and focus when compared to pre-upsampled in my setup.


----------



## shogo33

Also want to point out if this hasnt been mentioned before, the DI + Class A EPS in SPDIF mode may be sensitive to the different types of transports.  The differences are subtle however, a better built transport does impart a slight difference to the sound.
  I tested the use of 4 units as digital transports with the DI.
   
  -  Marantz CD67SE : Had more noticable 'grain' to the sound, but the sound has more emphasis on midrange freqs.
  -  Oppo 83SE :  Best out of the lot.  Nice clean, clear sound, no grain, glare or emphasis on the sound.
  -  Pana BD30 :  Warm, probably too warm for my liking as it seems to dull the sound too much.  More emphasis toward upper bass and lower midrange.
  -  11 year old cheap Sony dvd player ($100) :  Surprisingly good actually, probably more suitable toward hard rock, pop, techno mixes, but the sound was 'unrefined', overemphasis on bass and high freqs.
   
  Just my findings..


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





pacha said:


> - About auto-upsampling only when needed : see the last sentence of this comment of the dude who developed the wasapi plugin :
> http://forums.winamp.com/showpost.php?p=2627914&postcount=30
> 
> - About Tenor drivers : I've installed them through the Teralink X2 (which uses Tenor chip) drivers package along with the Teralink ASIO drivers and it worked but not bitperfect exclusive mode as I could play other files with any other player in the same time, plus I could change volume everywhere etc.
> ...


 

 A lot of good information..... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   

  
  Quote: 





pacha said:


> I've tried foobar with WASAPI plugin and I can't play 88.2 files so no auto-upsampling only when needed with WASAPI plugin in foobar. So except if using SoX or something else to upsample, for me yes only adionsoft WASAPI plugin has "built-in" auto-upsampling. Otherwise, which algorithm is used for upsampling, I don't know. it's said to be "high quality" but I didn't take time to compare with add-on upsampling on foobar on 88.2 files as I only have few of them and don't listen to them a lot.
> 
> gapless mode : enabled or not in the otachan ASIO plugin control panel I have a short pause between tracks, so with long fade out songs that's not an issue but when listening to a live or records where the songs follow on that's like your computer has gone stuck for a second or if there was a intentionally added pause between tracks, that gets quickly annoying.
> 
> ...


 


  More really good stuff.  Thanks.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The only folder I can access in the W7 laptop, from the XP work-group computers, is the public folder.
   
  USG


----------



## Pacha

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> A lot of good information.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Thanks.
   
  Do these with XP and the one with win 7 share the same workgroup name?
  Did you give the access rights for the local folders of the 7 pc?
  Check the sharing options of the Sharing tab on the volume/folder you want to access.


----------



## upstateguy

pacha said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Do these with XP and the one with win 7 share the same workgroup name?
> Did you give the access rights for the local folders of the 7 pc?
> Check the sharing options of the Sharing tab on the volume/folder you want to access.




<

Same workgroup, but XP can't join home groups....

I want to share the entire C folder... I'll check sharing options again but i'm pretty sure it's set to share. Not sure about access rights. Are they different from sharing options?


----------



## Pacha

computer -> view -> untick "use simple file sharing". In C: volume properties -> security tab : choose the xp users to have read (and write if you want) access to the volume.
   
  Maybe have also a glance at compmgmt.msc (use windows + R  on keyboard) -> shared folders.


----------



## sayh

Does anybody know or have measured, how much voltage and current  DI actually output ?


----------



## lag0a

This is a good review for those planning to use a PicoPSU to power their transport (motherboard) for audio purposes. The tests on ripple noise is interesting for various PicoPSUs and power bricks. I don't understand how the 19V power brick can have such high ripple noise but when plugged into the PicoPSU 120-WI-25 the ripple noise lowers a lot.
   
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=207


----------



## shadowlord

seems like the 120-WI-25 has good filtering for all voltage lines.
  thank for the link, i think i will switch from my 80W morex unit to a 120-WI-25
maybe that gets rid of some noise.


----------



## lag0a

I see. There are a lot of other models for the PicoPSU but that test did only 3. Lower watt models are cheaper but I don't know of any tests for them. I plan on using the PicoPSU-80 to power the p24 connector in my desktop motherboard.


----------



## ninjikiran

The Pico PSU's are awesome for creating a silent system.  I heard about them a long time ago but it hasn't been since the last few months that I have been seriously eyeing them for a music server.
   
  If only I could silence my beast of a gaming rig


----------



## erin

Quote: 





lag0a said:


> This is a good review for those planning to use a PicoPSU to power their transport (motherboard) for audio purposes. The tests on ripple noise is interesting for various PicoPSUs and power bricks. I don't understand how the 19V power brick can have such high ripple noise but when plugged into the PicoPSU 120-WI-25 the ripple noise lowers a lot.
> 
> http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=207


 

 Many of the Pico PSU's pass the incoming 12V rail from the power brick straight to the output of the 12V rail and generate the 5V and 3.3V rails using DC to DC converters.
  From the look of the ripple data, it would appear that this particular model pico psu, is actually using DC to DC converters on all the secondary voltage  rails, and not passing through the 12V from the power brick.


----------



## dukja

Not trying to be rude.  Would you guys that are interested in stuffs other than DI set up new thread for your own discussion?  Just to show some respect to the thread title, OP, and people who subscribe to this thread.
   
  Thanks a lot!


----------



## upstateguy

Question:
   
  Would the DI w/external power and the ipad w/ the camera dongle be the equivalent of the ipod Wadia?


----------



## shogo33

Has anyone tried to tweak around with the DSP settings?  I've tried the upsampling function to 96k (switch 3 & 6).  Are the stopband attenuation settings (switch 1&2)?


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote: 





pacha said:


> It seems like punk_guy was right, I now have more bass with the DI after more burn-in. The device seems to carry on improving.
> I suppose that modified HiFace will easily be on its way for the For Sale section.


 

  Yes I was quite surprise to have such an increase in terms of sound quality with the DI. Using it the RE1, I didn't think I could get better SQ and especially bass.
  This thing offers great imaging also and I couldn't ask for something better at this price tag. I should receive my updated DSP1 soon and I hope to get a similar increase in terms of SQ. Like I said previously, the hiface or modified hiface are a no match to the DI especially when comparing the transparency and imaging. I look forward for an upgrade of the DI with perhaps ACSS output. It would be interesting if Audio-GD could design a smilar product that could match or surpass the sound quality of CD7F.


----------



## dukja

I was also surprised by how much better DI makes my DLIII sounds.  When I swap my old Teralink-X with DI for Ref-1, I notice some improvement but not as dramatic as what DI do to DLIII.  Maybe the DSP-1 board already fixes some the bits a little bit.  With DLIII, DI cleans up all the light mist in the soundstage and tightened up all the notes comparing to USB direct in DLIII.  As you may notice the improvement was mainly on the imaging, darker background, and better impact.
   
  I wonder what improvement people will see when they mate DI with their more affordable DACs.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





dukja said:


> I was also surprised by how much better DI makes my DLIII sounds.  When I swap my old Teralink-X with DI for Ref-1, I notice some improvement but not as dramatic as what DI do to DLIII.  Maybe the DSP-1 board already fixes some the bits a little bit.  With DLIII, DI cleans up all the light mist in the soundstage and tightened up all the notes comparing to USB direct in DLIII.  As you may notice the improvement was mainly on the imaging, darker background, and better impact.
> 
> I wonder what improvement people will see when they mate DI with their more affordable DACs.


 

 Hi
   
  Wondering if you compared the Teralink-X with the DI for the DLIII, the way you did for the Ref-1, (not to the on board usb implementation in the DLIII) ?
   
  USG


----------



## lag0a

If you use a non-class A external PSU, does the DI have an idle power state ( when the computer is powered off but PSU still connected to the DI so it uses close to 0 watts) and a full power state ( computer is on and communicates with the DI so it uses a lot of watts) ?


----------



## tim3320070

I have found that if you leave the DI on and boot your computer up (powering the DI), it's hit and miss as to whether the DI will allow sound, even if it's seen in your Control Panel.
  You must power the DI on after boot-up for it to work 100% of the time. This is Vista 32 bit.


----------



## dukja

I don't have Teralink-X anymore so I can only answer from memory.
   
  I have quickly compared DLIII onboard USB input and Teralink-X USB input, but did not find significant change of SQ.  But switch from DLIII USB to DI, there was quite dramatic change to me.  The main change was the removal of sonic mist and much clean and clear imaging.  The notes are also more solid and denser.
   
  On the other hand, when I mated Ref-1 with Teralink-X or DI.  The improvement is again more on the better imaging and solidified notes and impact.  However, Ref-1 sound clean with no mist at all with either Teralink-X or DI.  It seems that Ref-1's DSP (V3) already provides some immunity to certain detrimental effect at upper stream.
  
  So I speculated that DI might help even more with lesser DAC.
  Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> dukja said:
> 
> 
> > I was also surprised by how much better DI makes my DLIII sounds.  When I swap my old Teralink-X with DI for Ref-1, I notice some improvement but not as dramatic as what DI do to DLIII.  Maybe the DSP-1 board already fixes some the bits a little bit.  With DLIII, DI cleans up all the light mist in the soundstage and tightened up all the notes comparing to USB direct in DLIII.  As you may notice the improvement was mainly on the imaging, darker background, and better impact.
> ...


----------



## Pacha

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> I have found that if you leave the DI on and boot your computer up (powering the DI), it's hit and miss as to whether the DI will allow sound, even if it's seen in your Control Panel.
> You must power the DI on after boot-up for it to work 100% of the time. This is Vista 32 bit.


 


  Mine is quite often not recognized any more if I shut external PSU down then power on again with 7 x64 (understand no device found in audio control panel). I need several on/off cycles sometimes letting the things rest for around 10 seconds before powering on again. But that's only an issue when switching it on/off for tests purposes, otherwise I let it on all the time as well as the rest of my rig, computer included so no trouble here.


----------



## lag0a

I was reading up on USB 3.0 and it sounds promising. I wonder if a DI on USB 3.0 Superspeed mode would eliminate jitter further.
   
http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/10things/?p=1265


----------



## Dynobot

Its Asynch out the box so maybe more or all USB products will utilize Asych as standard practice without the need for expensive hand made drivers etc.  Suddenly hyper expensive Asynch Dacs might loose some value.


----------



## dukja

Just to comment on DI not properly recognized by OS issue.
   
  If you are using Ref-1/7 with DSP-1, then this problem may be more complex.
   
  My experience seems to sort out an unfailing procedure (yet):
   
  Initial state (always the case when I switch from office to home):
  * DI unplug to computer, everything OFF
   
  1. turn on DI, and then Ref-1/7 (since DSP-1 does not like no digital input)
  2. wait a few seconds (<10s) for DSP-1 and DI to "align" their signal (my guess)
  3. plug in DI to computer's USB
   
  If I don't follow this process, sometimes DI was not recognized by OS properly.
   
   
  Also, if I change the jumper setting, my Win 7 tends to go "crazy" and change the Audio Device setting (or maybe DI did so, such as change volume to zero or only turn down one channel.  But things will settle down after I manually correct a few times.  Hence, I am not too fond of changing jumpers.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





pacha said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## haloxt

Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 More likely would be a computer modified to reduce jitter or other things that may affect sound quality. Consider the computer and the DI as the transport, if the computer is not ideal, no matter how perfect the DI is, the final transport will not be perfect. The CD7 is a transport that has had every aspect that may affect sound quality addressed, if we were to put a one dollar cd spinner and one wallwart into the CD7, while every other part remains high-end, then it would be similar to the situation we see with computer+DI as transport, it can't be expected to be superior than a transport with every aspect addressed.


----------



## udailey

Got my DI yesterday. Using a REF5 DSP1. Figures why not try the DSP3. I also bought the ClassA power supply for the DI. Definitely a noticeable and appreciated difference going from USB power to the power supply. Overall I dont hear a real big difference from just the DAC without the DI but the bass is better and the bass is much better with the power supply than with just USB power. Have not listened enough to comment more than that. 
  Uriah


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





dukja said:


> I don't have Teralink-X anymore so I can only answer from memory.
> 
> I have quickly compared DLIII onboard USB input and Teralink-X USB input, but did not find significant change of SQ.  But switch from DLIII USB to DI, there was quite dramatic change to me.  The main change was the removal of sonic mist and much clean and clear imaging.  The notes are also more solid and denser.
> 
> ...


 

  Are both your dacs upsampling DACs?


----------



## lag0a

If you use the coaxial input of the DI from a sound card, does this mean it would use the drivers from your sound card and not have any need for the DI's drivers? Does using coaxial input still provide galvanic isolation but not asyncronous usb since its not using the USB input? Anyone using this setup? sound card -> DI coaxial intput only + external PSU -> DAC -> headphone amp -> headphone?


----------



## Pacha

Quote:


dukja said:


> Just to comment on DI not properly recognized by OS issue.
> 
> If you are using Ref-1/7 with DSP-1, then this problem may be more complex.
> 
> ...


 


   My workaround is even easier : when everything stops responding or when you loose DI in the control panel : shut down DI's external PSU (well ok, if you have one), wait 10s, power it back on, wait another 10s, and you're done. While you still have unrecognized device, proceed the same way and you end up having it fixed by 3/4 shutdowns at the max.
   
  Other issue now for me : after getting sorted of this kind of problem or having crashed WASAPI plugin, I have channel imbalance or channels get reversed. Above method fix the problem though, but it's sometimes pretty annoying.


----------



## Dynobot

Wow, I don't have any of these issues with the DI when I reboot my system.
   
  Hmmmmmmm


----------



## lag0a

Does everyone use the DI on the front USB of their motherboard? I found using my mouse and keyboard on the front USB makes them less glitchy compared to the back panel usb ports. Not sure if the front USB is 2.0 compliant. I guess if the DI is already powered on and the computer isn't then when it does power on it won't recognize it so you may have to unplug it from the usb port then back in.


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





lag0a said:


> If you use the coaxial input of the DI from a sound card, does this mean it would use the drivers from your sound card and not have any need for the DI's drivers? Does using coaxial input still provide galvanic isolation but not asyncronous usb since its not using the USB input? Anyone using this setup? sound card -> DI coaxial intput only + external PSU -> DAC -> headphone amp -> headphone?


 

 USB devices require drivers. A regular digital connection, which coax and optical are, have nothing to do with drivers as they are carrying the raw digital signal only.


----------



## holland

has anyone checked if the digital interface is bit perfect?


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





holland said:


> has anyone checked if the digital interface is bit perfect?


 


  try searching the thread.


----------



## holland

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> try searching the thread.


 


  Thanks for the useless answer.  I wouldn't have asked if I saw it.


----------



## csholtmeier

Recieved my DI about a week ago. A couple of questions and concerns. I'm using this between a Macbook Pro and an Audio-GD Dac19. I've read this thread trying to find answers, but did not see anything that applied to my situation. I've been waiting for 4 days for a reply from Audio-GD.
   
  SQ seems to drop considerably when using the DI. Highs become brash, drums lose body, etc. My $3 Monoprice optical cable sounds much better than the DI. I opened it up to play with DIP switches, to maybe find a setting that worked only to find my unit does not have them.
   

   
  Also, I've found that the laptop's volume slider is not bypassed when using the DI, but it is when I connect the DAC19 by USB or optical. I have the settings in Audio/MIDI panel at 24/48. This is the only setting that produces sound.
   
  Is there something I'm overlooking here? Thanks in advance for any answers.


----------



## SilverCans

Kingwa replace the dip switches with jumpers (see all those pins to the right where the dip switch used to be), hence why he shipped it to you with a bad of little black jumper connectors. see here for the settings
   
http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USBface/USB9.jpg
   
  BUT I admit its confusing, since there are no jumpers it seems the default is to not upsample but I don't know for sure


----------



## csholtmeier

OK, I've messed with jumpers a little bit. Verdict is still out on SQ improvements with different configurations.
   
  I've discovered I can only get the DI to output sound when Audio/MIDI control panel is set to 16/96 or 24/48. Why can't I set 24/96?


----------



## fengshenwee

Can someone pls update on the first page the best driver with the download links to use with the DI and jumper settings for upsampling? It will make life easier for many DI users.


----------



## yupoet

I was told by KingWa that there are some discussion about how to set up upsampling in the Audio-gd DI. But just go through this thread very quickly, did not find anything.
   
  Can some one point me out the exact place where the tutorial is ?
   
  Great thanks in advance!


----------



## yupoet

Quote: 





yupoet said:


> I was told by KingWa that there are some discussion about how to set up upsampling in the Audio-gd DI. But just go through this thread very quickly, did not find anything.
> 
> Can some one point me out the exact place where the tutorial is ?
> 
> Great thanks in advance!


 

  
  Oh really I got this -->
  http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USBface/USB9.jpg
   
  just some paragraphs before my messages... But can some one give a more detail introduction ?
   
  It seems a bit confusing. Now we are using the combination of all "1" ? when the DI shipped to us?
  so that's 48k with Original sound with SPDIF (input ?) with I2S out?
   
   
  1. I know that the MSB is for PCM1704 use only. But why it's designed here ?
  2. What's will happen when I switch SPDIF to off?
  3. If I am using the upsampling function, I am 80% sure the additional DC power supply will benifit the SQ.


----------



## yupoet

Quote: 





fengshenwee said:


> Can someone pls update on the first page the best driver with the download links to use with the DI and jumper settings for upsampling? It will make life easier for many DI users.


 

  
   
  I will dare to say the better driver will be a ASIO driver. perhaps ASIO4ALL which is very common or the one Ploytec (usb-audio.de)
  Not sure whether they are the best
   
  let others comment


----------



## JulienM

Just wanted to share my listening experiences with the DI.
   
  I've had my DI for a few months now and I can say that there's a definite improvement using the DI instead of the USB input on my RE5DSP. The RE5DSP USB input is excellent but the DI brings it to a higher level, more detail, smoother presentation, more natural sound, better focused imaging. But, I was really impressed when I used the DI with an old Sony SACD/DVD player... It transformed that transport and it is almost as good as when I use the computer as my digital source, the differences are really minor... 
   
  J


----------



## shogo33

Quote: 





julienm said:


> Just wanted to share my listening experiences with the DI.
> 
> I've had my DI for a few months now and I can say that there's a definite improvement using the DI instead of the USB input on my RE5DSP. The RE5DSP USB input is excellent but the DI brings it to a higher level, more detail, smoother presentation, more natural sound, better focused imaging. But, I was really impressed when I used the DI with an old Sony SACD/DVD player... It transformed that transport and it is almost as good as when I use the computer as my digital source, the differences are really minor...
> 
> J


 


  To take it to another level, replace the stock XO within the DI with a Tentlabs XO.  I thought upsampling using the stock XO was a hit/miss, where focus, definition, and clarity improved, but the presentation was too forward for my liking.  With the Tentlab's clock replacement, i was expecting little, if not, no improvement at all.  The soundstage was still wide, strings and bass were much more natural sounding, subtle nuances are much more noticable, but more importantly, the presentation is much more natural sounding and isnt so forward sounding.  For $30, it was well worth it..


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote: 





shogo33 said:


> To take it to another level, replace the stock XO within the DI with a Tentlabs XO.  I thought upsampling using the stock XO was a hit/miss, where focus, definition, and clarity improved, but the presentation was too forward for my liking.  With the Tentlab's clock replacement, i was expecting little, if not, no improvement at all.  The soundstage was still wide, strings and bass were much more natural sounding, subtle nuances are much more noticable, but more importantly, the presentation is much more natural sounding and isnt so forward sounding.  For $30, it was well worth it..


 

 Can you write us a short tutorial on the replacement of this XO?
  Did you only notice a more natural sound or did you thought that it was also more detailed?


----------



## shogo33

I'll try but i've had too much food and drink for Xmas.  Its not all that hard actually.  The XO is located on the bottom left corner of the DI unit.  I've circled it in red (excuse the dodgy paint job).  Also note the location of the 'X" drawn on the unit.
   

   
  There should be a 'black dot' pointing to the corner of the XO unit.  Even the stock unit has one.  Take note of this and the corners of each of the XO unit.  The corner which has the black dot pointer has a more 'rectangular' edge.  I have marked this with a 'red' X on the pic above.
  As both units are compatible in thier respective voltage, it can be a direct drop in replacement.
   
  The stock unit had some glue used on it, so it may take some effort to remove it, but care should be exercised when removing the stock XO.  Also note which pins are connected into the socket.
   
  The upsampled sound sounded more natural than the stock XO's upsampled sound at 24/96.  Cymbals shimmered with more 'tone'  and decay.  Double bass sounded tighter, with far less bloat, the string reverberation was clearer.  I wouldnt say that it was more detailed sounding, its just that the background was quieter to allow the subtle nuances to be heard easier.  But there is a catch, crappy recordings sound pretty bad and it clearly shows.
   
  Before i forget, the version that u need to get is the 24,5760MHz XO.  If u're not into upsampling, then this upgrade will not benefit you at all as it bypasses the XO module.  Slim A shared his thoughts on this upgrade to us, so kudos to him for this recommendation.


----------



## punk_guy182

Alright thanks for the indications. It looks like a pretty simple mod. I'm not into upsampling but I might try it I fthe sound stays natural.


----------



## JulienM

Thanks for the tip! I haven't tried the DI in upsampling mode yet. Based on past experiments, I always end up going back to the native sampling of the audio file... Have you tried upsampling using your computer instead of the DI?
   
  Also, regarding my sonic impressions, I had 2 BNC hiFaces before the DI, one standard, and the other battery power... The DI was clearly superior to the hiFace in every aspect. The RE5 USB input sounded better than the hiFace...


----------



## JulienM

Have any of you tried soft recovery diodes (i.e. Fairchild "Stealth" diodes) in the rectifier bridge in the power supply? I noticed Kingwa only uses standard diodes in his power supplies, and his products sound great. But IME, diodes can have a huge impact on the sonic presentation.


----------



## Dynobot

The DI in the pic shows nice phillips type screws, but on my DI the screws are soldered over so that the only way to remove the board is to drill out the screws.
   
  How did you manage to remove the board in order to solder in your parts??
  
  Quote: 





shogo33 said:


>


----------



## JulienM

The XO sits on a socket, no need to solder.


----------



## Dynobot

Ohhh, thats great....adds an element of tweakability to the DI.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





dynobot said:


> The DI in the pic shows nice phillips type screws, but on my DI the screws are soldered over so that the only way to remove the board is to drill out the screws.
> 
> How did you manage to remove the board in order to solder in your parts??


 

  What is the purpose of soldering over the screws?  Is there something on the other side of the board that they don't want us to see?
   
  Anyway, maybe the solder could be removed with a desoldering pump or braid?
   
  One last question:  Has anyone been able to get the DI to work with standard windows USB drivers?  I thought it was supposed to be plug and play???


----------



## Trapper32

Standard windows drivers worked fine right off the bat... no problems whatsoever.
  Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## JulienM

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> What is the purpose of soldering over the screws?  Is there something on the other side of the board that they don't want us to see?
> 
> Anyway, maybe the solder could be removed with a desoldering pump or braid?
> 
> One last question:  Has anyone been able to get the DI to work with standard windows USB drivers?  I thought it was supposed to be plug and play???


 


   
 [size=medium]If you check the Audio-gd site, they have a picture of what's under the board. I think they solder the screws for extra reliability. So that everything stays together while shaken in shipping. I noticed that they use glue and soldering in their products to keep certain sections sealed. That's a common thing. Many electronic components have some parts glued to keep them from moving during transport. like transformers, big caps, etc...
  When I received my RE5, one of the transformers was a little loose. I think the screws started coming off with vibration in the plane or truck...​[/size]


----------



## shogo33

Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> Alright thanks for the indications. It looks like a pretty simple mod. I'm not into upsampling but I might try it I fthe sound stays natural.


 


  Me to.  Not a fan of upsampling, but i was pleasantly surprised with the results.


----------



## shogo33

Quote: 





julienm said:


> Thanks for the tip! I haven't tried the DI in upsampling mode yet. Based on past experiments, I always end up going back to the native sampling of the audio file... Have you tried upsampling using your computer instead of the DI?


 

 I've tried the standard upsampler included in Foobar2k. Didnt notice much of a difference compared to non-upsampling. Also tried SoX upsampler, the difference was very subtle, going from memory, so didnt bother with that.  Was surprised with the results of the DI, but with the stock XO, the upsampling was quite forward sounding, but the definition and clarity improved, so it didnt appeal to me all that much in the greater scale of things.  But with the XO upgrade, naturalness retained, with the added clarity and definition of the sound.


----------



## Nada

Quote:


shogo33 said:


> The upsampled sound sounded more natural than the stock XO's upsampled sound at 24/96.  ......the version that u need to get is the 24,5760MHz XO


 

 Thanks for the great share.  I wonder if this mod would help me? I use SPDIF out of the 'puter. Most of my files are 44.1 and I use SOX in Foobar to upsample to 88.2 and will then send them over SPDIF to the DI-REF7S.
  For 88.2 upsampling I wonder if the DI with the matching correct frequency clock would improve things over using the puter to upsample?


----------



## hawkhead

@SHOGO33
   
  Where did you source the XO ?


----------



## Dynobot

why does the ox ONLY work if you upsample???


----------



## JulienM

You convinced me, I'll order one and give it a try...
  
  Quote:  





> I've tried the standard upsampler included in Foobar2k. Didnt notice much of a difference compared to non-upsampling. Also tried SoX upsampler, the difference was very subtle, going from memory, so didnt bother with that.  Was surprised with the results of the DI, but with the stock XO, the upsampling was quite forward sounding, but the definition and clarity improved, so it didnt appeal to me all that much in the greater scale of things.  But with the XO upgrade, naturalness retained, with the added clarity and definition of the sound.


----------



## JulienM

Quote: 





hawkhead said:


> @SHOGO33
> 
> Where did you source the XO ?


 


  from here:
  http://www.tentlabs.com/Components/XO/index.html


----------



## JulienM

try this instead:
  http://www.tentlabsshop.com/DetailServlet?detailID=1671


----------



## hawkhead

Thanks for the link
   
  6 EUR for shipping + 4 % for paypal :[ :[
  
  Quote: 





julienm said:


> try this instead:
> http://www.tentlabsshop.com/DetailServlet?detailID=1671


----------



## holland

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> What is the purpose of soldering over the screws?  Is there something on the other side of the board that they don't want us to see?
> 
> Anyway, maybe the solder could be removed with a desoldering pump or braid?
> 
> One last question:  Has anyone been able to get the DI to work with standard windows USB drivers?  I thought it was supposed to be plug and play???


 
   
  It's probably for shipping, instead of using loctite.
   
  A pump or braid would be fine, you just need a strong iron with a big fat tip to maintain heat.  These screws should go into the case, through brass standoffs.  That would be my guess, so it's going to act like a heatsink.  You can probably just heat it up and turn the screw out most of the way, and then let it cool a bit and turn the rest out.  The screws should be standard computer screws, and is probably stainless.  Solder doesn't stick well to stainless without alot of flux and high heat.  Just don't get any solder into the standoffs.  Toss the screws and put in new ones.


----------



## Kingwa

Upend the DI, take off the screws of the bottom side, then can take off the circuit board.
  If only want to take off the DSP board, only take off those four screws on the DSP board.
  If want to replace the clock, just take it off by hand without solder, it is install on a socket.


----------



## FauDrei

julienm said:


> Have any of you tried soft recovery diodes (i.e. Fairchild "Stealth" diodes) in the rectifier bridge in the power supply? I noticed Kingwa only uses standard diodes in his power supplies, and his products sound great. But IME, diodes can have a huge impact on the sonic presentation.


 
   
  You mean something like this?
   

   
  No, noone tried. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Joking, I have. It does not have huge impact on DI. "Stealths" make more tangible impact in A-GD's headamps and DACs. Do not expect too much though - the "standard" diodes that A-GD uses are already good and fast.
   
  More performance out the DI can be squeezed in other places:

 swap 74HC04 SPDIF line driver with 74HCU04 or 74VHC04 (this one is easy: pull 74HC04 chip out - place new one in it's place)
 swap 4,7nF and 68nF "yellow" film caps around DIR9001 with 1% polypropylene caps of identical vaules
 bypass all "red" film caps that you can around Tenor chip (which is under board) and DIR9001 with polypropylene caps
 swap all Dale 75ohm resistors that you can (2x4 + 1 on board; 6 + 1 on DSP-3; 16 total) with something like Caddock MK132 resistors of the same value
 swap 100uF Nover caps on DSP-3 with lower ESR ones; bypass them with >= 10nF polypropylene caps where you can
 change 1500uF Nover caps in DI/DI PSU with something of higher capacitance and/or lower ESR (watch out - max. electrolytic cap dimensions that fit into DI/DI PSU are 16mm diameter and 30mm height)
   
  ...and the upsampling tweak mentioned here: swap DSP-3 clock with better one (only necessary if and when you use upsampling).
   


upstateguy said:


> What is the purpose of soldering over the screws?  Is there something on the other side of the board that they don't want us to see?
> 
> Anyway, maybe the solder could be removed with a desoldering pump or braid?
> 
> One last question:  Has anyone been able to get the DI to work with standard windows USB drivers?  I thought it was supposed to be plug and play???


 

  Soldering over screws do not cover any dark A-GD secrets on the other side of the board. The screws are soldered to board to make a better ground contact and not to unscrew during transport.
   
  DO NOT unsolder them! Be smarter - unscrew the external small screws that tie spacers to the bottom of the DI/DI PSU case. This way you lift the board WITH spacers and board soldered screws. Much easier and elegant solution.
   
  One last answer: Tenor based DI's USB solution IS Plug&Play (verified it on XP SP3 and 7 x64). If experiencing device recognition problems check the power your USB port can give to DI... or change USB port... or do not use USB cables longer than 1,8m... or use external PSU for DI instead of USB power.


----------



## FauDrei

kingwa said:


> Upend the DI, take off the screws of the bottom side, then can take off the circuit board.
> If only want to take off the DSP board, only take off those four screws on the DSP board.
> If want to replace the clock, just take it off by hand without solder, it is install on a socket.


 
  KingWa was faster than me...


----------



## JulienM

Thanks for the tips Faudrei!
   
  Yes, the PSs Kingwa design are very well filtered and robust. I love the way things sound now stock, so I'll be cautious and moderate with the parts swap. I will try the Stealth diodes on my Audio-gd gear little by little to see the impact on the overall presentation. And I have ordered a Tent XO for upsampling.
   
  I agree with you, in purely digital circuits like the DI, the diodes have a minor impact, specially with a well designed PS. They tend to be more noticeable when used analog stages PSs.  
   
  In my experience, increasing capacitance and bypassing everything is not always a good thing, but can improve things depending on the circuit... If I have to bypass small caps, I try to use SMD components to avoid lead interactions. Small value ceramic caps can work very well. For those attempting these mods, I'd recommend going one step at a time and assess the sonic differences making sure components get broken in properly before moving to the next step. It can be really fun! Remember, Kingwa and his team spend a good amount of time making sure things sound good...


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





faudrei said:


> <snip>
> One last answer: Tenor based DI's USB solution IS Plug&Play (verified it on XP SP3 and 7 x64). If experiencing device recognition problems check the power your USB port can give to DI... or change USB port... or do not use USB cables longer than 1,8m... or use external PSU for DI instead of USB power.


 

 I was curious because a lot of the guys downloaded Tenor drivers to get it to work right......  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  If it can work without drivers, I can try it with my ipad.


----------



## JulienM

I checked the diodes, and Kingwa uses MUR ultrafast diodes from Motorola that are pretty good already (not soft recovery though, but each diodes is damped by a small cap) .
  I'll pass on the diode replacement for now... A lot of effort for a possible small or no return.
   
  I also tried for the first time with the DI upsampling to 24/96. I'm very pleased with the presentation, I didn't feel the usual artificial, synthetic taste. It didn't feel too forward in my system (I'm listening to speakers). I'll see how much better it gets with a Tent labs XO...


----------



## ninjikiran

If the Ipad supports standard USB audio drivers than yes, otherwise I wouldn't hold my breath. 
   
  It is driverless in the sense that no third party drivers were needed but EVERYTHING hardware needs some kind of OS driver to function.  Without a driver there is no functionality .
   
  On the other hand the android mobile OS's seem to be most promising in this regard.
  Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## SilverCans

So is there indeed tenor drivers to install for win7x64? Or just plug an play? With Regard to optimal performance of course.


----------



## Pacha

There are, you can download them and use their ASIO drivers for TeraLink X2, or you can install ASIO4ALL only and do the same job.
   
  You can alternatively use WASAPI plugin or KernelStreaming plugin for foobar, winamp, etc...


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





ninjikiran said:


> If the Ipad supports standard USB audio drivers than yes, otherwise I wouldn't hold my breath.
> 
> It is driverless in the sense that no third party drivers were needed but EVERYTHING hardware needs some kind of OS driver to function.  Without a driver there is no functionality .
> 
> On the other hand the android mobile OS's seem to be most promising in this regard.


 
   
   
  So far the ipad works with my Pico dac and my Blue Circle Thingee transport > my regular laptop rig, so it apparently supports standard usb drivers.  Now, if the DI works with standard usb drivers, so I can try it with the ipad, it may be worth getting.
   
  Edit:  To the guys who downloaded the Tenor drivers:  Why did you choose to use the Tenor drivers over the standard Windows usb drivers?  Was there a problem with the Windows drivers?


----------



## Pacha

USG, downloading the TeraLink X2 Tenor chip drivers with ASIO just allows you to have specific drivers for the Tenor chip but essentially use the built-in ASIO layer provided with it instead of using the not bitperfect playback with windows directly.
  I've tried these possibilities along with ASIO4ALL with win7x64 drivers and WASAPI and KS for winamp and foobar and found no difference btw.


----------



## SilverCans

my understanding was that win7 x32 or x64 are bit perfect. No? I'm trying to decide what to do. ASIO I thought was really for XP since XP was not bit perfect and really crappy audio layer wise?


----------



## Pacha

If I don't blether, you have bitperfect when you have exclusive mode with vista or 7, but as soon as you have windows sounds, internet sounds, and other apps sounds overlaying your music, your music isn't played in exclusive mode and it is processed through a mixer so it's not bitperfect.
  You want to use wapasi exclusive mode or asio or ks plugins to get bitperfect through exclusive mode.
  You usually need to configure properly your audio device in the audio control panel also to hope getting bitperfect mode.


----------



## seaninbrisbane

Quote: 





csholtmeier said:


> OK, I've messed with jumpers a little bit. Verdict is still out on SQ improvements with different configurations.
> 
> I've discovered I can only get the DI to output sound when Audio/MIDI control panel is set to 16/96 or 24/48. Why can't I set 24/96?


 


  I had this problem - use the USB towards the rear of the laptop - should allow you to use 24/96.


----------



## rehabitat

Afaict no-one has posted this review link yet:
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/30769-Audio-GD-Digital-Interface-Unit-A-GD-Class-A-External-PSU-impressions


----------



## Pacha

Thanks for sharing.


----------



## uelover

ahh i have chanced upon this beautiful little unit.
   
  Question:
  Will getting a good USB + DI w/ PSU + good coaxial cable beat a high end toslink cable running out from macbook pro?
   
  Getting DI to perform at its optimal seems to be quite costly.


----------



## Pacha

You don't need good USB cable and you can use an adapter as I do instead of a cable, so it's not that costly. The DI + PSU isn't more expensive than competitors in the same league for what it has to offer.


----------



## SP Wild

Has anyone had a chance to compare the DI to the ART Legato for Redbook playback?


----------



## ninjikiran

$1 - $3 .5ft - 1ft certified USB cable
  No more than $20 on a Spdif or toslink
  Then at most $200 if you think the Powersupply is needed.
   
  So ~$223 to run optimally if you don't have a Spdif/Toslink cable already.  Most people don't have short short USB  cables though.
   
  Before shipping and/or taxes if applicable of course.
  
   
  Now if you want a $500 Coax or Glass fiber optics cable thats your deal   But in any situation the price would be insane with that case.
  Quote: 





uelover said:


> ahh i have chanced upon this beautiful little unit.
> 
> Question:
> Will getting a good USB + DI w/ PSU + good coaxial cable beat a high end toslink cable running out from macbook pro?
> ...


----------



## uelover

haha yep i know!
   
  i am comparing like spending $225 on the entire DI+PSU+Cheap USB and Coax cable VS $225 on a super highend toslink cable.
   
  In fact, wireworld supernova 6 glass toslink with mini cost $179.
   
  I do agree that it is hard for people to really sit down and compare them side by side as they are totally different thing. But i want to spend my money well =)
  
  Quote: 





ninjikiran said:


> $1 - $3 .5ft - 1ft certified USB cable
> No more than $20 on a Spdif or toslink
> Then at most $200 if you think the Powersupply is needed.
> 
> ...


----------



## ninjikiran

In my opinion I rather get the DI   But I also come from the camp where digital cables have a cheap high point in terms of construction and functionality.  So in my biases opinion the DI .
   
  At the same time assuming the difference is so slight, I would gather that youde gain more with a good transport vs a good cable.  A situation of a Dac before the cable, or chicken before the egg 
   
  Either that or, say to heck with both and build a really sexy solid state fanless computer for music   Though then you would still be without a transport but I have seen you around and I am sure your Transport is fine .
  Quote: 





uelover said:


> haha yep i know!
> 
> i am comparing like spending $225 on the entire DI+PSU+Cheap USB and Coax cable VS $225 on a super highend toslink cable.
> 
> ...


----------



## rehabitat

^^ These are good questions.  I am feeling quite bewildered about the many methods available in using computer as source.  It seems that digital audio technology is in a very 'interesting' transitional period.
   
  Perhaps a poll would be helpful, but the various combinations of choices you can make for each step of the chain would be convoluted to say the least.


----------



## haloxt

If you want to try a glass toslink, 1.5 ft or 3 ft sonicwave glass toslink cables are pretty cheap. I think the coax cables I've tried have better microdetail, but I prefer the pitch black background of glass toslink.


----------



## uelover

So far the reason I have heard for people preferring USB-->Coax over toslink is that they are more natural sounding and has less jitter (if the USB converter is a good one). I guess this advantage will decrease as we use a better DAC that has good jitter reduction mechanism.
   
  Going via toslink is the simplest solution for my setup. My Van Den Hul toslink cable is quite a good one.
  Quite curious to try DI with a mediocre coax cable but am afraid that it might prove to be an epic fail as Electrical signal is more dependent on the cable than optical signal. Maybe the DI would be a great solution for PC user but not for Mac user? *shrugs*
   
  Yeah computer audio is interesting. I have given up the thought of getting a CD transport and just use my macbook pro for it. Trying to figure out ways to improve the audio by allocating reasonable amount of money to reasonable components.
   
  At the end of the day, a high end DAC with a $5 toslink cable will still beat the crap out of a v-dac with DI + PSU + all the high end cables.
   
  haloxt, do you find the sound of glass toslink to be 'digital' and thin, lacking weight at the low ends?


----------



## haloxt

A little digital, not thin. Not lacking weight, but imo the most notable shortcoming vs coax is that when there's some kind of sustained sound that slowly drifts in different frequencies, it doesn't sound as vivid or complex. More distance from the performance, but I still like the black background . I haven't tried a really good transport though, just a reclocker. I don't doubt that a very good transport will have as black a background as optical when using coax.
   
  I should also add, the audio-gd DSP module really does bridge the difference between different transports, cables and tweaks, but you still can tell a difference. In a way, it becomes easier to tell a difference, because the sound becomes more cogent, but the differences aren't very extreme.


----------



## Pacha

Why don't you guys try an adapter (possibly a good one) like I do? It's about 5 to 10 bucks to make on opinion and is interesting as you don't use any cable.


----------



## udailey

[size=medium]My RE5 definitely sounds better through the DI using Coax than straight from the CDP using Toslink. I mean switching back and forth between Toslink and Coax both from CDP. Then if I use USB to RE5 OR USB to DI then Coax out to RE5 STILL Toslink is the weakest link and its not one of those "so small you can hardly tell" situations. Toslink bites compared to my options with DI or just plain old USB to DSP RE5. I even have a crappy USB output from my laptop.​[/size]


----------



## uelover

i have just read from another source that the benefit of adding a DI decreases as you use a better DAC. I assume that it is because of the good jitter reduction for the toslink input from the good DAC.
   
  coaxial cable quality makes a big difference to the SQ. toslink cable not as much but still the difference between wireworld 6 and monoprice and some cheapo toslink cable are clearly audible. I had a daiyo toslink cable as my first toslink cable and it sounded like crap. monoprice is much better but still lacking clarity and resolution.
   
  not so interested in usb as an option out of the 3.
   
  Quote: 





udailey said:


> My RE5 definitely sounds better through the DI using Coax than straight from the CDP using Toslink. I mean switching back and forth between Toslink and Coax both from CDP. Then if I use USB to RE5 OR USB to DI then Coax out to RE5 STILL Toslink is the weakest link and its not one of those "so small you can hardly tell" situations. Toslink bites compared to my options with DI or just plain old USB to DSP RE5. I even have a crappy USB output from my laptop.​


----------



## borrego

I just upgraded to foobar2000 1.1.2 beta 2 and found the DI behaves much better with this version of foobar. I can use the lowest 50ms buffer with Win7 WASAPI and still no drop out.
   
  But I found more bass (a little boomy) with this foobar version. As usual I diable all DSP/Replaygain/Playback fading setting.
   
  Can other DI user verify my founding?


----------



## hawkhead

Hmm well I don't get any problems with those settings on Foobar 1.1.1
   
  My RCA connection is very loose though!


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





borrego said:


> I just upgraded to foobar2000 1.1.2 beta 2 and found the DI behaves much better with this version of foobar. I can use the lowest 50ms buffer with Win7 WASAPI and still no drop out.
> 
> But I found more bass (a little boomy) with this foobar version. As usual I diable all DSP/Replaygain/Playback fading setting.
> 
> Can other DI user verify my founding?


 

 Hi borrego
   
  Is there any advantage to using the lowest buffer setting (other than a slight delay before the music starts)?
   
  USG


----------



## K3cT

Quote: 





uelover said:


> i have just read from another source that the benefit of adding a DI decreases as you use a better DAC. I assume that it is because of the good jitter reduction for the toslink input from the good DAC.
> 
> coaxial cable quality makes a big difference to the SQ. toslink cable not as much but still the difference between wireworld 6 and monoprice and some cheapo toslink cable are clearly audible. I had a daiyo toslink cable as my first toslink cable and it sounded like crap. monoprice is much better but still lacking clarity and resolution.
> 
> ...


 

 Apparently if your DAC uses some form of ASRC upsampling as a jitter rejection mechanism like the Lavry DA11 or Benchmark DAC1 HDR, the benefits would be much less pronounced. I've tested my own γ2 which uses a similar ASRC mechanism with a Musiland 01USD interface unit and sure enough, the difference between USB and Coaxial was quite subtle and often I was not sure whether my ears were fooling me or not.


----------



## borrego

upstateguy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Some says WASAPI requires low buffer setting to sound good or to work at all. I think it depends on what computer you have.

I have already concluded that all the occasional drop-outs I experience with the DI are caused by the power management in Windows. The problem is if I diable the power management features all together, the CPU fan of my notebook runs in full speed and becomes too noisy.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





ninjikiran said:


> $1 - $3 .5ft - 1ft certified USB cable
> No more than $20 on a Spdif or toslink
> Then at most $200 if you think the Powersupply is needed.
> 
> ...


 


   
http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?searchFilter=dayton%20glass%20optical%20cable      <----  some affordable glass cables
   
http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?searchFilter=dayton%20digital%20coaxial       <---- some affordable coaxial cables
   

  
  Quote: 





borrego said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 When I set up my wife's W7 laptop with WASAPI and foobar I didn't experience any drop outs at all.  IIRC, I think I had the buffer set at 2000ms.
   
  Btw, do you get any drop outs if you're not doing anything on the computer at the same time you're listening, like having it get mail or browsing?
   
  Have you tried any other transports.... does this only happen with the DI?


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





k3ct said:


> <snip>
> 
> Apparently if your DAC uses some form of ASRC upsampling as a jitter rejection mechanism like the Lavry DA11 or Benchmark DAC1 HDR, the benefits would be much less pronounced. I've tested my own γ2 which uses a similar ASRC mechanism with a Musiland 01USD interface unit and sure enough, the difference between USB and Coaxial was quite subtle and often I was not sure whether my ears were fooling me or not.


 

 I have found that the more resolving the DAC the more you can hear the differences between USB transports. 
   
  What I have not heard is a difference between well made coaxial cables. 
   
  I can also not hear a difference between well made glass and plastic optical cables.
   
  USG


----------



## borrego

> When I set up my wife's W7 laptop with WASAPI and foobar I didn't experience any drop outs at all.  IIRC, I think I had the buffer set at 2000ms.
> 
> Btw, do you get any drop outs if you're not doing anything on the computer at the same time you're listening, like having it get mail or browsing?
> 
> Have you tried any other transports.... does this only happen with the DI?


 


  I experiene drop outs when there is heavy HD activities, Ctrl-Alt-Del to start the task manager, and moving the notebook around triggering the HD protection mechanism. The above are understandable.
   
  On my latest HP notebook, drop out happens whenever the power management engages. E.g. drop-out happens whenever the LCD is automatically dimmed and shutdown. I tried the DI on my other 7 years old notebook with primitive power management, and it never has drop out.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





borrego said:


> > When I set up my wife's W7 laptop with WASAPI and foobar I didn't experience any drop outs at all.  IIRC, I think I had the buffer set at 2000ms.
> >
> > Btw, do you get any drop outs if you're not doing anything on the computer at the same time you're listening, like having it get mail or browsing?
> >
> ...


 

 Does this happen with every USB port on your laptop? 
   
  I have my mouse and USB transport on separate usb  buses, leaving one more free for my camera or ipad.  The other USB ports on the laptop are connected to the ports I already mentioned.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  The conclusion seems that different DAC behaves differently with optical/usb/coaxial input and there is no single answer other than your own ear.
   
  Some people claimed that there is no difference in optical, usb and coaxial while others claimed that the difference are large. I am not a fan of USB input and from my past ownership of several optical cables, the difference they made to the sound is definitely there.
   
  What I could not compare is between optical and coaxial as I lack an interface that allows me to do so on my macbook.
   
  Many people got this as an upgrade for their USB output on their WIndows/Linux platform in order to get coax interface.
   
  Since the maker/designer/engineer of my DAC encourages me to stick with optical output on my macbook instead of getting another interface for coaxial, I shall stick to his advice. Kingwa is not answering the question I asked him in the email but instead gave me an advertisement answer so I will give this DI a miss.


----------



## realmassy

Anyone is using the Digital Interface with Linux and MPD 0.16?


----------



## Dynobot

Yep...

  
  Quote: 





realmassy said:


> Anyone is using the Digital Interface with Linux and MPD 0.16?


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





dynobot said:


> Yep...


 
  Any issue? would you recommend it?


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





realmassy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 No issues with the DI with Linux. 
   
  Linux supports 24bit playback
   
  I would recommend the DI with Linux, its plug and play. 
   
  I would recommend 0.16 version of MPD much better clarity however there is one thing that needs to be done in order for it to play wav files.


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





dynobot said:


> No issues with the DI with Linux.
> 
> Linux supports 24bit playback
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks mate.
  I already have a fanless netbook with Voyage and MPD 0.16, and, to my ears, this setup sounds better than XP + foobar (dual boot netbook).
  But if the DI is an improvement over the standard USB connection on my Havana... 
  And I could also use the DI with the Sonos Zone Player, through the coax input.


----------



## Denys

Hi,
   
  I just ordered a REF 5 last weekend and it's not sent yet. As I will use a USB plug from a notebook, would you recommend the M2tech or the DI ?
   
  If the DI is OK, I'll ask Kingwa to simply add one and save on the shipping !! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Denys


----------



## zenpunk

Does all Audio-GD Dacs suffer from poor usb implementation that they require a dedicated converter to sound their best? I have been curious about their products for a while but every thread suggest you need to invest more cash for them to sound good. I can't tell apart the usb input from the coax on my Stagedac!


----------



## vrln

The StageDAC doesn´t do anything special regarding USB. It runs the stock Tenor receiver chip for USB if I remember correctly, same one in the dual Wolfson Audio-gd units. From what I´ve read the usb should perform worse than the coax. Very few DAC´s actually have a built-in async USB (optimal) implementation so far. The DI was made to fix this issue. Maybe someday there will be a (well, of course there will) USB chip with built-in async that will be used in most gear, but right now it´s just a premium extra in some rare DAC´s. This is why USB-SPDIF converters like the HiFace or the DI are so popular.
   
  Denys: I have the DI and HiFace. The DI is better in my experience, and you don´t have to use custom drivers that are unstable (HiFace) and don´t run on many operating systems (Linux for example). The DI is plug and play, and also made for the REF (and others) DAC units. I´d go for that. From what I´ve read the battery modded HiFace should be on the same level though.


----------



## Denys

Quote: 





vrln said:


> The StageDAC doesn´t do anything special regarding USB. It runs the stock Tenor receiver chip for USB if I remember correctly, same one in the dual Wolfson Audio-gd units. From what I´ve read the usb should perform worse than the coax. Very few DAC´s actually have a built-in async USB (optimal) implementation so far. The DI was made to fix this issue. Maybe someday there will be a (well, of course there will) USB chip with built-in async that will be used in most gear, but right now it´s just a premium extra in some rare DAC´s. This is why USB-SPDIF converters like the HiFace or the DI are so popular.
> 
> Denys: I have the DI and HiFace. The DI is better in my experience, and you don´t have to use custom drivers that are unstable (HiFace) and don´t run on many operating systems (Linux for example). The DI is plug and play, and also made for the REF (and others) DAC units. I´d go for that. From what I´ve read the battery modded HiFace should be on the same level though.


 

 Thanks,
   
  I already have the M2tech that I use with the DacMagic. I was just wondering if I should use the DI with an Audio-GD product. I'll write to Kingwa (or Edwin) and ask them to include one to avoid shipping fee. then I'll sell the M2tech along with the DacMagic.
   
  Thanks again for the advice.
   
  Denys


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





zenpunk said:


> Does all Audio-GD Dacs suffer from poor usb implementation that they require a dedicated converter to sound their best? I have been curious about their products for a while but every thread suggest you need to invest more cash for them to sound good. I can't tell apart the usb input from the coax on my Stagedac!


 

 You should consider yourself fortunate.  There is a big difference between the USB implementation and optical/coax on my Stello DA100 and Constantine+ DACs, which is why I got into transports in the first place.  I'm currently using a Blue Circle transport which uses the same Burr-Brown PCM2704 USB to S/PDIF receiver as your Stagedac.  This has brought USB up to the level of optical and Coaxial from those DACs.  I tried the HiFace but it's treble tilted sound signature didn't mesh well with the rest of my gear, and so it sits in a plastic baggie in the unused parts drawer. 
   
  I'm interested in the DI if it will bring my NorthStar 192 MKII past the level of the PCM2704 BCT.
   
  USG


----------



## lag0a

I don't know all about the DI but from my knowledge the benefits are async USB, galvanic isolation, optional external power supply going to an small isolation transformer for clean and instantaneous signal to your DAC or usb power going to the isolation transformer, I'm not sure how the power filtration process really works in the DI, reclocker, and integrated drivers in a ram. With all this implementation it is sure to improve your sound quality and prat (flow of the music) but what would worry me is the drivers or software side of things (if better plug and play drivers would improve the sound), the front USB solves the dropout problem it seems, and some people have mentioned the DI should be plugged in after your computer is on or after your DAC is on or else it wouldn't work, and how the limit of the usb transferring data speed affect sound quality. I'm sure there will be better  implementations of this setup in the future and maybe you will even see a balanced DI in the future. I'm still skeptical about the use of USB as an output for a transport even though it reclocks to spdif, and input for a DAC.


----------



## Denys

Quote: 





lag0a said:


> I don't know all about the DI but from my knowledge the benefits are async USB, galvanic isolation, optional external power supply going to an small isolation transformer for clean and instantaneous signal to your DAC or usb power going to the isolation transformer, I'm not sure how the power filtration process really works in the DI, reclocker, and integrated drivers in a ram. With all this implementation it is sure to improve your sound quality and prat (flow of the music) but what would worry me is the drivers or software side of things (if better plug and play drivers would improve the sound), the front USB solves the dropout problem it seems, and some people have mentioned the DI should be plugged in after your computer is on or after your DAC is on or else it wouldn't work, and how the limit of the usb transferring data speed affect sound quality. I'm sure there will be better  implementations of this setup in the future and maybe you will even see a balanced DI in the future. I'm still skeptical about the use of USB as an output for a transport even though it reclocks to spdif, and input for a DAC.


 
  OK.... but I will use a notebook with an external hard drive... The REF5 will be in my bedroom where I listen the music the most. Therefore, I must have a USB to SPDIF converter...
   
  Denys


----------



## lag0a

Denys, it seems decidedly so since your notebook doesn't have coaxial output. I'm not familiar with most laptops but why do they lack a coaxial output?


----------



## Denys

Quote: 





lag0a said:


> Denys, it seems decidedly so since your notebook doesn't have coaxial output. I'm not familiar with most laptops but why do they lack a coaxial output?


 


 No notebooks have a digital output... It's a small laptop (10.1 inch screen) with 160 gig hard drive, Windows 7 starter and 3 USB port..... I only use it as a musical server. All my music is on an external HD.
  I just wrote to Kingwa asking him if I should use the USB port of the REF5, buy the Digital Interface of Audio-GD or if the use of my M2Tech key will be OK...
   
  Link to the notebook:
http://www.msimobile.com/level3_productpage.aspx?cid=7&id=207
   
  Denys


----------



## h.rav

Macbook Pros have optical output.


----------



## Denys

Quote: 





h.rav said:


> Macbook Pros have optical output.


 


 Right, I should have mentioned Windows notebook....but I prefer coax than optical....
   
  Denys


----------



## littletree76

Quote: 





denys said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I received shipment of Digital Interface version A with Class A external power supply two days ago. Today I have compared it against HiFace Evo (costs about 50% more than Digital Interface package without required power adaptor) on my latest model of iMac. The Class A external power supply works for both USB-to-SPDIF converters. In fact there is only slight difference in sound quality between Class A external power supply and wall-wart type of linear AC/DC power adaptor. Digital Interface can even be powered by USB port of iMac without much loss in sound quality (HiFace Evo requires external power source).
   
  With same audio system setup (StageDAC, KingRex U20 Class-T power amplifier, KEF book shelf speakers), results are quite close between Digital Interface and HiFaceEvo except the Digital Interface provides better/tighter bass and more natural sound. HiFace Evo requires updated driver whereas Digital Interface is a plug-and-play device with no driver installation. With its price advantage, you will not be disappointed by the Digital Interface without external power supply.
   
  Quote: 





lag0a said:


> I don't know all about the DI but from my knowledge the benefits are async USB, galvanic isolation, optional external power supply going to an small isolation transformer for clean and instantaneous signal to your DAC or usb power going to the isolation transformer, I'm not sure how the power filtration process really works in the DI, reclocker, and integrated drivers in a ram. With all this implementation it is sure to improve your sound quality and prat (flow of the music) but what would worry me is the drivers or software side of things (if better plug and play drivers would improve the sound), the front USB solves the dropout problem it seems, and some people have mentioned the DI should be plugged in after your computer is on or after your DAC is on or else it wouldn't work, and how the limit of the usb transferring data speed affect sound quality. I'm sure there will be better  implementations of this setup in the future and maybe you will even see a balanced DI in the future. I'm still skeptical about the use of USB as an output for a transport even though it reclocks to spdif, and input for a DAC.


 

 Though Digital Interface uses 12Mbps fast USB interface as compared with HiFace Evo which uses 480Mbps high-speed USB interface on my iMac, there is no dropout at all and it does not require any driver installation. These USB-to-SPDIF converters work by active compensation (through customized driver or DSP) as compared with passive compensation seen in expensive coaxial/optical cables. You should compare both means in term of cost/performance ratio instead of finding fault on USB interface after all these are what available today. As for future implementation, do you wait for development of fuel cell vehicle or just buy a hybrid car right away in order to save fuel cost and the environment ?


----------



## lag0a

Interesting. DI uses 12Mbps while the Hiface Evo uses 480Mbps. The DI should still use some kind of driver when connected to windows but windows just automaticly detects and installs it for you or else windows wouldn't recognize the DI I think. I'm not familiar with active compensation and passive compensation. I guess it depends on how much you need a usb to spdif device for your dac. The audio-gd DI sounds like a top tier performer now and I'm glad usb to spdif devices are starting to pop up but usb 3.0, display port, and i2s is starting to be implemented into hardware these days also so it depends on if usb is the connection for you now or if there is a better connection you're going to be looking forward to in the near future.


----------



## littletree76

Today while I was testing Digital Interface with Meier Audio StageDAC, I noticed this problem with up-sampling in Digital Interface: sampling frequencies 64kHz and 192 kHz worked but not 96kHz. Later Kingwa notified through email that there were errors in initial jumper settings published in Digital Interface web page: jumper settings (MMD0 and MMD1) between 64kHz and 96kHz have been reversed. The web page has already been revised with proper jumper settings: http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USBface/DSP3.JPG
   
  Please take note of changes in this web page if you have encountered confusion previously in setting up-sampling frequency. Basically MMD0 and MMD1 make up four 2-bit binary values to encode sampling frequency from 48kHz to 192kHz:
  [MMD1][MMD0]: 00 --> 48kHz, 01 --> 64kHz, 10 --> 96kHz and 11 --> 192kHz where 1 means jumper on and 0 means jumper off.
   
  Of course a jumper must be set on NO-C to enable up-sampling before the frequency setting can take effect.


----------



## zenpunk

Littletree, 
  So have you compared the Stagedac straight through USB versus the DI  or did you get it just to play hi-rez files (don't iMacs have SPDIF?) What are the main improvements and would you recommend investing in the DI. I am using the Coax out of my STX at the moment so I can ouptut up to192khz without problem.
  I literraly spend hours switching back and forth between the output of the STX and that of my Onkyo NDS1 dock (claimed to be only 10ps jitter) through the Stagedac and was unable to detect the slightest difference. So I wonder if it still worth investing in something like the DI or audiophilio.....


----------



## ninjikiran

Probably not, the STX is reputed to be one heck of a transport.  As well as being multi-function.
  
  Quote: 





zenpunk said:


> Littletree,
> So have you compared the Stagedac straight through USB versus the DI  or did you get it just to play hi-rez files (don't iMacs have SPDIF?) What are the main improvements and would you recommend investing in the DI. I am using the Coax out of my STX at the moment so I can ouptut up to192khz without problem.
> I literraly spend hours switching back and forth between the output of the STX and that of my Onkyo NDS1 dock (claimed to be only 10ps jitter) through the Stagedac and was unable to detect the slightest difference. So I wonder if it still worth investing in something like the DI or audiophilio.....


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Quote: 





shogo33 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Kingwa just posted the updated and CORRECT settings on the switches for upsampling for both the jumpers and DIP switch versions. It seems that previously, the pictures were wrong and the setting for 96khz is actually 64khz. So it seems that what we have been hearing isn't the 96khz upsampling but actually 64khz for those of us who did the mod.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





zenpunk said:


> <snip>
> I literraly spend hours switching back and forth between the output of the STX and that of my Onkyo NDS1 dock (claimed to be only 10ps jitter) through the Stagedac and was unable to detect the slightest difference. <snip>


 
   
  FWIW the digital output of my ipad is not as good as the digital USB output from my laptop's HD, using this rig.....  Blue Circle Transport > Northstar 192 MKII > GS-1 > T-1.
   
  How does coax out of the STX to the Stagedac to the rest of your rig sound?
   
  Edit to fix spelling


----------



## zenpunk

All I can say is that both sound superb and are very enjoyable ( I don't have an other dac to compare). I was just hoping the Onkyo digital dock +iPod Touch to sound slightly better. The stagedac has two coax inputs so  I can quickly switch between the STX and dock (the hardest bit is to perfectly synchronise the track on the computer and iPod). The Stagedac use the well regarded W8804 SPDIF receiver with its own quartz so that might explain the identical SQ. Strangely the STX coax sound slightly better -more dynamic- than my motherboard SPDIF so decided to keep the STX.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





zenpunk said:


> All I can say is that both sound superb and are very enjoyable ( I don't have an other dac to compare). I was just hoping the Onkyo digital dock +iPod Touch to sound slightly better. The stagedac has two coax inputs so  I can quickly switch between the STX and dock (the hardest bit is to perfectly synchronise the track on the computer and iPod). The Stagedac use the well regarded W8804 SPDIF receiver with its own quartz so that might explain the identical SQ. *Strangely the STX coax sound slightly better -more dynamic- than my motherboard SPDIF* so decided to keep the STX.


 

 Hi
   
  Three things:
   
  -  you say that _the STX coax sounds slightly better -more dynamic- than your motherboard SPDIF_.  Are you quite sure this is not due to a volume difference between the MB SPDIF and the STX?
   
  -  verify that you found the ipod/Onkyo dock coax to be identical in sound and volume level to the STX coax, when you compared them with your Stagedac?
   
  -  since your Stagedac also has a USB input, have you compared USB/Stagedac to the MB/Stagedac and the ipod/Onkyo/Stagedac?


----------



## littletree76

I do not possess any high resolution files other than MP3 files ripped from audio CDs with latest beta version of LAME encoder. I am well aware that all Mac models come with optical SPDIF audio output but both HiFace Evo and Digital Interface USB-to-SPDIF converters are step above Audio Technica polymer optical cable in use for five years on various models of iMac.
   
  I was comparing between HiFace Evo and Digital Interface with StageDAC and iMac. Take note than HiFace Evo supports up to 192kHz sampling whereas Digital Interface supports only up to 96kHz. If you really need 192kHz sampling, Digital Interface may not be suitable for you though it sound more natural than HiFace Evo. StageDAC has built-in over-sampling and it must be set to minimum factor of two in order to receive digital input signal with 192kHz frequency properly.
   
  Comparison should not be made between STX and Onkyo NDS1 dock through similar SPDIF optical/coaxial cables. You have to make sure audio sources are the same for both cases and who know the cable is jitter bottle neck (does not matter how good is the Onkyo NDS1 dock). In your case, proper comparison/audition should be made between existing SPDIF optical/coaxial cable and USB-to-SPDIF converter with down stream equipments (amplifiers, headphone) good enough to pick up difference due to jitter.
   
  Quote: 





zenpunk said:


> Littletree,
> So have you compared the Stagedac straight through USB versus the DI  or did you get it just to play hi-rez files (don't iMacs have SPDIF?) What are the main improvements and would you recommend investing in the DI. I am using the Coax out of my STX at the moment so I can ouptut up to192khz without problem.
> I literraly spend hours switching back and forth between the output of the STX and that of my Onkyo NDS1 dock (claimed to be only 10ps jitter) through the Stagedac and was unable to detect the slightest difference. So I wonder if it still worth investing in something like the DI or audiophilio.....


----------



## zenpunk

I didn't know if iMac had SPDIF or not. My own experiment suggest the Stagedac is quite immune to jitter so I am still wondering if investing in something like the DI is wise. Although those USB to SPDIF might improve other part of the signal?? I also tried different optical cables (polymer and high strand glass) and couldn't detect differences in my system.
  Anyway what are the improvement from using the DI over an optical cable straight from your iMac?


----------



## zenpunk

@Upstageguy,
   
  - I don't have a SPL meter and my comparison was brief between the MB and STX SPDIF so I could be wrong (I assumed both SPDIF will output the same volume when everything is maxed out in the OS and player)
  - I have very little doubt the Onkyo and STX sound identical but still unsure what to deduce from it ...
  - I compared the USB input (from PC) to Coax from STX on the Stagedac and while they are very close the coax is slighlty more detailed and have better treble extension which make it sounds a tiny bit thinner and brighter compared to USB. I prefer coax but other owners like the USB more.
   
  Anyway, what is your point?


----------



## BournePerfect

I have a Reference 9 with DSP version 5. Will I see a benefit by adding the GI to this? I thought the DI had (has?) DPS v.3, and I'm not sure if I'd see a benefit with this. I emailed Edwin about it, but it's the first email he's not replied to lol. Thanks.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## punk_guy182

Yeah Edwin doesn't reply all the time. If I were his boss, I would have fired him a long time ago. *He is useless**!!!  *





  Cherry was much better with replys.
  Regarding the DI, it uses the DSP3 which is something different from the DSP1 used in the Reference DAC series.
  I strongly recommend the DI and I speak as a reference One DAC w/ DSP1 v5 owner.


----------



## haloxt

I wouldn't be so harsh on Edwin, audio-gd sales have increased much more than when Cherry was doing customer service. And we can't know how many hours he spends on emails, he might also have more duties than customer service working at audio-gd, especially when things have been so busy for them.


----------



## seaice

There is a new official upgrade for the Digital Interface:
  http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USBface/Clock.htm
   
  No soldering!


----------



## hawkhead

Hmm it shows a square and rectangular clock - which is the correct one ?


----------



## Dynobot

The pic of the DI itself shows a square clock and there is only one inside.
   
  Can this new clock be used inside AGD Dacs as well? or is the Dacs clock integral with the DSP module?  If the Dacs do use a similar clock it might be good to upgrade that as well in order to have equally good clocks.
   
  fwiw, I went with the tentlabs clock in mine....it has 3x less jitter.  <1pps vs. <3pps, cost roughly the same shipped.


----------



## rehabitat

Can you relate any audible difference with the tentlabs xo?


----------



## hawkhead

You cant get get TXCO clocks with 1pps and even a Vanguard version with 0.3pps but they all seem to be rectangular


----------



## punk_guy182

Sp which is best between the one being sold by Audio-GD and the Vanguard one?
  I can get the Vanguard one for 27.50USD shipped.
   
  Here are the specs:
  [size=large]Frequency: 24.576MHz[/size]
  [size=large]Power voltage: +5 VDC +/-5%[/size]
  [size=large]Power current: 25mA (MAX)[/size]
  [size=large]Waveform: TTL/CMOS[/size]
  [size=large]Duty cycle: 40/60%[/size]
  [size=large]Phace noise: -125dBc/1KHz[/size]
  [size=large]Package: 20.4 x 12.8 x 7.5 (mm)[/size]
   
[size=large]http://cgi.ebay.ca/Ultra-precision-1ppm-24-576MHz-TCXO-crystal-oscillator-/130448011508?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e5f4eb0f4[/size]


----------



## lag0a

Why can't we use an cesium oscillator for audio purposes? [size=x-small]0.0000001ppm[/size]
http://www.best-microcontroller-projects.com/ppm.html


----------



## hawkhead

@punk_guy182
   
  the question is will the Vanguard fit ?


----------



## punk_guy182

Is anyone getting the TCXO upgrade from A-GD?
  How much are those Cesium clocks?
  By the way those the picures of the uprgades on the AGD website do not correspond to the specs of the TCXO being advertised. 24.576MHz vs 80.000MHz


----------



## Dynobot

pay attention to power voltage.
   
  AGD = 3.3v
   
  fyi, the ideal sample rate for a 24.576 clock is 48 or 96K


----------



## crumpler

I'll be getting the low jitter clock upgrades from Audio-GD
  
  Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> Is anyone getting the TCXO upgrade from A-GD?
> How much are those Cesium clocks?
> By the way those the picures of the uprgades on the AGD website do not correspond to the specs of the TCXO being advertised. 24.576MHz vs 80.000MHz


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote: 





dynobot said:


> pay attention to power voltage.
> 
> AGD = 3.3v
> 
> fyi, the ideal sample rate for a 24.576 clock is 48 or 96K


 
  Oh yeah supply input = power voltage, I get it!
  I guess I'll order it.


----------



## ninjikiran

I am pondering resetting my position in queue and having them put one in my NFB-2, I wonder if it'll be worth the queue reset, $30 and extra time though.


----------



## sayh

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> I wouldn't be so harsh on Edwin, audio-gd sales have increased much more than when Cherry was doing customer service. And we can't know how many hours he spends on emails, he might also have more duties than customer service working at audio-gd, especially when things have been so busy for them.


 

 Anyway, kingwa is seriously hiring 15 workers at one go this time, he should put someone trained, fulltime on the frontline to handle customer relations. Hopefully AGD are going to be way better than before in terms of customer service .


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





sayh said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  No trying to be funny but haloxt seems to be doing a pretty good job at customer relations and seems to be motivated to do so.  Kingwa might have the answer to that right under his nose.


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





ninjikiran said:


> I am pondering resetting my position in queue and having them put one in my NFB-2, I wonder if it'll be worth the queue reset, $30 and extra time though.


 


  Yep, cause your going to want it done anyways.  You know how the wonder turns into a want then turns into a need, in audio.  You are wondering now, but in no time you will want it and soon their after you will need it.
   
  Go ahead and get it done and save yourself the process....


----------



## yupoet

I might be asking a repeated question which has been queried before -->
   
  According to http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USBface/DSP3.JPG
   
  1. What's the difference of setting SPDIF to active / inactive ?
  2. For DI's output, since we see it as coaxial output to DAC, so it should always be I2S out. Isn't it? Why do we need MSB out setting here? Can DI directly connect to PCM1704? I am really confused.


----------



## ninjikiran

Taking off the jumper enables the spdif, which I assume is in relation to the spdif input.

 Can't answer the second question.. though technically anything is possible.
   
   
   
  ~Yea I might tonight give them the e-mail but they also took it off their site and now its just for the DI


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





seaice said:


> There is a new official upgrade for the Digital Interface:
> http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USBface/Clock.htm
> 
> No soldering!


 

 Anyone know off hand how these specs compare with the clocks in the HiFace?  Any chance in getting one for 22.579MHz instead, or in addition?  99.9% of my stuff is in 44.1.
   
*24.576MHz for Digital Interface upgrade. Without solder.

  Supply input: 3.3V
  Output: Specified frequency, +/-1ppm
  Output voltage : 3.3V
  Output jitter: < 3ps RMS
*


----------



## Dynobot

Well I said once before, AGD needs to make their own forum in which Kingwa can address concerns and questions like he as in his Chinese site.  In this way he can field questions on an open forum where everyone can see instead of answering the same question 100 times by 100 different people via private emails.
   
  This would also build an extensive knowledge base were people can search and get quick answers to their questions which have likely already been asked.
   
  Also I emailed AGD with the suggestion that they take advantage of PayPals business features that will allow them to take orders directly through Paypal with prices automatically adjusted with shipping charges etc.  This would free up a lot of manual labor associated with fielding individual emails for quotes and shipping costs etc for each individual order or even possible order.  Furthermore the whole ordering and tracking system could be automated together with Paypals already built features.  No need to reinvent the wheel, just sign up and let Paypal make your business life easier and more efficient.
   
  On another note, I noticed that the DI has two clocks....one on top of the board and it appears that there is another below the board.  I only replaced the one on top, should you replace both?


----------



## lag0a

Dynobot, Good suggestions. A FAQ for each Audio-gd product would help too from what I've seen from other manufacturer websites. The DI has two clocks? Sounds like what the Hiface had too and people were complaining about their clock sizes. Do they both use the same MHZ? I forgot what each Hiface clock did but I sort of remember they each served a different function.


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





lag0a said:


> Dynobot, Good suggestions. A FAQ for each Audio-gd product would help too from what I've seen from other manufacturer websites. The DI has two clocks? Sounds like what the Hiface had too and people were complaining about their clock sizes. Do they both use the same MHZ? I forgot what each Hiface clock did but I sort of remember they each served a different function.


 


  From what I understand you want your clock to be in sync with the frequencies your Dac chips Master clock accepts.
  For example the AGD Dacs support these four frequencies.
   
*[size=10pt]"Clock Autodivide Circuit Supports four Master-Clock Frequencies : 256Fs[/size][size=10pt]、384Fs、512Fs、768Fs"[/size]*
   
*[size=10pt]A 24.576MHz clock would take care of the 48 and 96Hz sample rates[/size] as seen below*
   
  [size=10pt]*48Hz* x 512Fs = [/size]*[size=10pt]24.576MHz[/size]*
  [size=10pt]*96Hz* x 256Fs = [/size]*[size=10pt]24.576MHz[/size]*
   
  And a 16.934MHz clock would take care of sample rates with multiples of 44.1Hz
   
*44.1Hz* x 384Fs = *16.934MHz*
*44.1Hz* x 768Fz = 33.868Mhz/2 = *16.934MHz*


----------



## haloxt

Quote: 





> No trying to be funny but haloxt seems to be doing a pretty good job at customer relations and seems to be motivated to do so.  Kingwa might have the answer to that right under his nose.


 
   
  I think if they follow your advice on paypal purchasing and a forum/faq they would have customer service down pat, no need to hire anyone. I am motivated by the discounts audio-gd aims at head-fi , I think if sales keep up they will keep giving us promos and better gear, but geez, I have to say their recent promos have really gotten them way in over their heads.


----------



## lag0a

To jitter or not to jitter, that is the question. A review I found on a top of the line master clock generator.
http://www.avguide.com/review/tas-180-esoteric-g-orb-rubidium-master-clock-generator


----------



## csholtmeier

I've discovered, quite accidentally, that my wife's HP Mini 1000 sounds much better than my MacBook Pro with the DI. I had upgraded the OS to W7 and decided to give it a shot with my rig. The difference is far from subtle. Chain is DI>DAC19>C2. It's as if there has been a layer of filth removed from a window. I've been furiosly plugging in different cans and listening to music, the difference is just amazing. Amazing vividness and deeper bass. My LP Sextetts now have a solid and satisfying low end. The monitor amp I've been using for my HE-6's is on the fritz, I can't wait until my Virtue One.2 gets here.


----------



## Dynobot

Then I take it you are going to trade your wife for her HP and give her your Mac right?


----------



## csholtmeier

Quote: 





dynobot said:


> Then I take it you are going to trade your wife for her HP and give her your Mac right?


 


 Haha! She's actually using it right now. I don't think give is the right word, as the Mac accompanies me on _many _business trips.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





lag0a said:


> Dynobot, Good suggestions. A FAQ for each Audio-gd product would help too from what I've seen from other manufacturer websites. The DI has two clocks? Sounds like what the Hiface had too and people were complaining about their clock sizes. Do they both use the same MHZ? I forgot what each Hiface clock did but I sort of remember they each served a different function.


 

 The HiFace actually had 3 clocks.
   

   
  from the left: 
   

   
  the the two main clocks
   

   
   
  the little 22.579 clock was the issue with the so called "bad" HiFaces and has since been replace with a full size MIC 22.579.  AFAIK all HiFaces now have two large clocks like this


----------



## haloxt

Quote: 





csholtmeier said:


> I've discovered, quite accidentally, that my wife's HP Mini 1000 sounds much better than my MacBook Pro with the DI. I had upgraded the OS to W7 and decided to give it a shot with my rig. The difference is far from subtle. Chain is DI>DAC19>C2. It's as if there has been a layer of filth removed from a window. I've been furiosly plugging in different cans and listening to music, the difference is just amazing. Amazing vividness and deeper bass. My LP Sextetts now have a solid and satisfying low end. The monitor amp I've been using for my HE-6's is on the fritz, I can't wait until my Virtue One.2 gets here.


 


  I hear windows 7 sound is bit-perfect, meaning no kmixer software doing poor quality resampling from 44.1khz to 48khz. Older versions of windows would do inaccurate resampling which messed with the sound, so some audiophiles would use bit-perfect software like asio, wasapi and ks. I used to try to be bit-perfect police trying to make sure people using computer as transport had bit-perfect, but figure it's a moot point now that the newest windows os doesn't use kmixer . Almost reason enough for me to upgrade, but a little ticked at microsoft for inventing vista.


----------



## lag0a

I think everyone's level of bitperfect is different. I'm waiting for an OS dedicated to audio only with total control over the cpu for processing the audio data only, and use only its  l1 and l2 cache or fastest processing part of the cpu with the fastest data transfer rate to a motherboard built and dedicated to audio only with one point (CPU) to point (Motherboard) to point ( RCA or BNC or whatever digital output). I wonder if some kind of built in ram into the motherboard is faster than ddr3 ram that you slot in. Then you can use some kind of external hdd as the music server that wouldn't interfere with the whole point to point to point process. Also each CPU, Motherboard, RAM, External hdd uses its own linear power supply.


----------



## csholtmeier

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 So, following this line of thinking, if I load Windows 7 on my Mac via Bootcamp I will get the same SQ as the HP?


----------



## ninjikiran

Quote: 





lag0a said:


> I think everyone's level of bitperfect is different. I'm waiting for an OS dedicated to audio only with total control over the cpu for processing the audio data only, and use only its  l1 and l2 cache or fastest processing part of the cpu with the fastest data transfer rate to a motherboard built and dedicated to audio only with one point (CPU) to point (Motherboard) to point ( RCA or BNC or whatever digital output). I wonder if some kind of built in ram into the motherboard is faster than ddr3 ram that you slot in. Then you can use some kind of external hdd as the music server that wouldn't interfere with the whole point to point to point process. Also each CPU, Motherboard, RAM, External hdd uses its own linear power supply.


 

 If you want an OS dedicated to "audio" load up Linux, and set real time scheduelling to audio processes with the real time kernel.


----------



## haloxt

Quote: 





csholtmeier said:


> So, following this line of thinking, if I load Windows 7 on my Mac via Bootcamp I will get the same SQ as the HP?


 


  No, mac is usually bit-perfect. It's just older windows would take all the audio from different sources (like winamp and a game) and mix it all together with kmixer, and mess with the data.


----------



## littletree76

Quote: 





zenpunk said:


> I didn't know if iMac had SPDIF or not. My own experiment suggest the Stagedac is quite immune to jitter so I am still wondering if investing in something like the DI is wise. Although those USB to SPDIF might improve other part of the signal?? I also tried different optical cables (polymer and high strand glass) and couldn't detect differences in my system.
> Anyway what are the improvement from using the DI over an optical cable straight from your iMac?


 


  StageDAC does have over-sampling (2x, 4x, 8x) built in with its WM8804 SPDIF receiver, so that might be the reason why jitter can be improved. To really appreciate effect of jitter and since StageDAC comes with both optical and coaxial digital inputs, you should compare sound outputs between best coaxial cable and worst polymer optical cable to convince yourself. The oversampling switch should be set to minimum (2x) at top position.
   
  Either HiFace EVO or Digital Interface reduce jitter by improving pulse waveform (less ringing and better slew rate) through better power line regulation, better reference clocks and proprietary driver for asynchronous mode rather than normal adaptive mode (HiFace EVO) or digital signal processing (Digital Interface). On my iMac, when polymer optical cable is swapped with either USB-to-SPDIF converter, immediately I can hear better clarity and improved bass response (more and tighter impact) and the effect is not subtle (I don't have to try very hard in listening). It does not matter whether I use good/short NuForce Impulse USB cable or long normal data USB cable between the iMac and the converters.
   
  iMac [rear USB2.0 port] --> NuForce Impulse USB cable -> [USB] USB-to-SPDIF converter [coaxial] --> Belden 1800F 110ohm digital audio cable --> [coaxial] StageDAC [fixed level line output] --> KingRex T20 amplifier -> KEF iQ10 bookshelf speakers
   
  Just like any long term Mac user, I see USB interface as something from PC world and FireWire 400/800 (IEEE 1394 a/b) suppose to be technically superior over USB 1.1/2.0. Too bad popularity win over technical superiority between Firewire and USB otherwise we should have FireWire-to-SPDIF instead of USB-to-SPDIF converter. Nevertheless USB interface has been improving from version 1.1 to version 2.0 and to version 3.0 now and has served good purpose in this case in improving audio quality.


----------



## Dynobot

Windows 7 Exclusive mode = Bit perfect
   
  Use ASIO or Wasapi and you are bit perfect.
   
  Sound quality would be the similar but not exactly the same because you still have different hardware.
   
  Furthermore it always pay to try different things, software etc....you might want to try Re-Clock with the appropriate music software.  Most people who try it love it.


----------



## uelover

Hmm why would you recommend him to compare a good coaxial cable with a lousy optical cable? The inherent jitter in optical cable is high and good optical cable actually reduces that (though not as much as what I would desire it to be). Coaxial cables are known to display a wider variance in sonic signature across different cables compared to toslink cable. If I compare a cheap toslink against a cheap coaxial, even if they are of the same brand, I may just conclude that toslink is better. Of course, when it comes to good quality coax cable, even the 1 grand toslink and USB cable cannot match it.
   
  I know zenpunk mentioned that he couldn't hear a difference between cheap plastic and glass but I am hearing a difference between cheap plastic and good plastic optical cable already and the difference is clearly audible. The difference is not the kind of difference between Beyer and Senn cans but they are the kind when you must sit down and listen through how vocals are portrayed, how the instruments sound and the soundstage and etc. Takes time to feel how the music are portrayed differently.
   
  I have StageDAC myself and a good optical cable clearly gives the edge over the bundled USB cable. A better USB cable would probably pull the trick off too. The ability of the USB cable to carry the digital signal is important. However, the onboard USB to SPDIF converter on your DAC is very important too.
   
  All DAC has their own USB to SPDIF converter (Burr-Brown PCM2704 in the case of StageDAC) and this is the extra thing that differentiate the sound of the USB input from SPDIF input. 
   
  A good DAC designed for use with computer by right should have an USB to SPDIF converter that is as good as DI/Hiface. However, whenever that is not the case, DI/HiFace/EA/etc comes into the picture. They just allow us to bypass the USB to SPDIF converter inside our DAC.
   
  The StageDAC USB input is pretty decent. Nonetheless, Jan recommended me to use Optical out from my Macbook pro unless I wanted to play 192khz high res file which I have none. Some people in the previous posts have mentioned that DI makes their music sounds better. I am not downplaying anyone's findings and hearing but still it is something which is best for you to find out yourself. Just keep in mind that different coaxial cable gives a different feel to the music too, just like how I find monoprice toslink to sound muffled after I have heard my VDH toslink. Monoprice toslink is still good though when I first heard it.
   
  If we really want to be a perfectionist, we can get the best power cord, best PSU for our computer, best SSD drive, best SATA cable, best motherboard and etc to reduce noise and jitter in every aspects too. But at the end of the day, all those money would still be better spend on just getting a good DAC (even if we are just using a lousy USB cable).
   
  But well, Audio-GD, HiFace and many other brands have given us poor head-fiers a lifeline to obtain decent sound out from our standard computers through their cheap (or not so cheap) USB to SPDIF converters.
   
  I am just not so comfortable with adding so many hardwares/cables along the audio path to my DAC as there will be signal drop here and there. But well, that is just on theory. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





littletree76 said:


> StageDAC does have over-sampling (2x, 4x, 8x) built in with its WM8804 SPDIF receiver, so that might be the reason why jitter can be improved. To really appreciate effect of jitter and since StageDAC comes with both optical and coaxial digital inputs, you should compare sound outputs between best coaxial cable and worst polymer optical cable to convince yourself. The oversampling switch should be set to minimum (2x) at top position.
> 
> Either HiFace EVO or Digital Interface reduce jitter by improving pulse waveform (less ringing and better slew rate) through better power line regulation, better reference clocks and proprietary driver for asynchronous mode rather than normal adaptive mode (HiFace EVO) or digital signal processing (Digital Interface). On my iMac, when polymer optical cable is swapped with either USB-to-SPDIF converter, immediately I can hear better clarity and improved bass response (more and tighter impact) and the effect is not subtle (I don't have to try very hard in listening). It does not matter whether I use good/short NuForce Impulse USB cable or long normal data USB cable between the iMac and the converters.
> 
> ...


----------



## littletree76

Quote:
  Hmm why would you recommend him to compare a good coaxial cable with a lousy optical cable? The inherent jitter in optical cable is high and good optical cable actually reduces that (though not as much as what I would desire it to be). Coaxial cables are known to display a wider variance in sonic signature across different cables compared to toslink cable. If I compare a cheap toslink against a cheap coaxial, even if they are of the same brand, I may just conclude that toslink is better. Of course, when it comes to good quality coax cable, even the 1 grand toslink and USB cable cannot match it.
  ------------
   
  I am not interested in sound signature of cable rather jitter caused by different types/grades of cables. Thus to have maximum jitter difference, comparison is made between worst optical cable against best coaxial cable to allow him to hear a difference due to jitter. The comparison has nothing to do with your personal preference.
   
  Quote:
  I am just not so comfortable with adding so many hardwares/cables along the audio path to my DAC as there will be signal drop here and there. But well, that is just on theory.
  -----------
   
  Sorry we are talking about digital signal but not analog signal, so what matter most is timing of digital pulse (jitter) but not negligible voltage drop along the line. All USB-to-SPDIF converters are dealing with digital signal rather than analog signal. Hope you put thing in proper perspective before making any comparison.


----------



## Dynobot

Be careful, a comparison might not support accepted Dogma.
   
  The Ears are lousy at reading specs and measurements.
   
  This leaves the question, if your ears like toslink, what will you do?  Many people like toslink better but still go with coax just out of principle.


----------



## uelover

.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





uelover said:


> I am saying that listening via a better coax cable will not only incorporate the benefit of less jitter but also other effects such as the sonic signature of the cable itself. There is no way we can isolate them when we listen to them.
> 
> Comparing cables of the same class, one with more jitter and the other with less, will help to isolate the comparison and allow us to hear the impact of jitter better. For example, one may prefer QED coax better because it is brighter and more transparent or that VHD coax sounds more natural and warmer and thus claimed that coax > usb but that is nothing to do with jitter at all.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I am saying that listening via a better coax cable will not only incorporate the benefit of less jitter but also other effects such as the sonic signature of the cable itself. There is no way we can isolate the improvements and discern their causes when we listen to them. For example, QED coax is bright and transparent and VDH coax is sound natural and warm. But that tells us nothing about whether jitter is the culprit in making the sound less bright, muddy, unnatural, and etc. Of course, I am generalizing the sonic signature of QED and VDH coax cables. I am in no way implying or suggesting that they sound that way but am just using that as an example to illustrate my point.
   
  Comparing cables of the same class, one with more jitter and the other with less, will help to isolate the comparison and allow us to hear the impact of jitter better.
   
  Yeah, if you are assuming 100% efficiency rate in all the components used in an ideal world.

  
  Quote: 





dynobot said:


> Be careful, a comparison might not support accepted Dogma.
> 
> The Ears are lousy at reading specs and measurements.
> 
> This leaves the question, if your ears like toslink, what will you do?  Many people like toslink better but still go with coax just out of principle.


 

 Dynabot I totally agree with you. At the end of the day, after reading all the specs, opinions, it is still up to our ears to decide, for our preferences and the synergy of our system still reign over everything else. We listen to audio to enjoy but at the same time are constantly looking for ways to make that listening a more enjoyable experience. Reading others' opinions are just a guide that points us to where to head towards but whether the findings of others are applicable to us there is no confirmation.
   
  To conclude whether DI is an upgrade for iMac + StageDAC, the only way is the listen to it on your system yourself. One's conclusion may differ from another but that does not mean that one's opinion is correct or wrong because one is better at hearing and the other is not =)


----------



## palchiu

About the clock, soldering direct on PCB if you can.
   
  That's different sound between socket and soldering.


----------



## Dynobot

Is it possible for the Digital Interface to have ACSS applied?
   
  This would allow people with non ACSS front ends to benefit from ACSS technology with their ACSS equipped Dacs.
   
  Also I noticed that the NFB-8 uses Wolfson SPDIF instead of the DIR9001 SPDIF, this is a good step in the right direction because the Wolfson accepts 192K.  However most computer sources coax out and most spdif converters use the DIR9001 chip which is limited to 96K.  If Kingwa would implement the Wolfson chip on the DI finally 192K would work.
   
  One more thing, I noticed that the NFB-8 has AES/EBU XLR in capabilities, very few front ends have AES/EBU out although it is an excellent interface.  It also allows for very long runs of digital.  it might be good to offer AES/EBU out on the DI to open up the full potential of AGD's top tier Dacs.  This would also allow others with Dacs that support AES/EBU to actually use the method, otherwise AES/EBU on a Dac is really not needed....seeing that few if any CD-Transports offer AES/EBU and no computers offer AES/EBU out.
   
  Why not go the extra mile and use a TAS 1020 usb instead of the Tenor for even better jitter numbers.
   
*Therefore we need a Digital Interface-SE series which comes with:*
  upgraded clock
  TAS 1020 usb
  Wolfson SPDIF
  ACSS out via BNC [if possible]
  AES/EBU XLR out [option]


----------



## Dynobot

Okay while I am at it, I will go ahead and make another crazy suggestion regarding the AGD line-up.
   
  To make a clear distinction of Tiers with the AGD line-up, with existing and [proposed] NEW offerings in each Tier.  Tier-1 would be the highest.
   
*Tier-1 [full 24-192 sample rate support Wolfson spdif, AES/EBU, ACSS]*
  CD-7 - Transport Front-End - [add AES/EBU out]
  Digital Interface - [with SE upgrades] 
  Ref-7 Dac - [use Wolfson spdif instead of DIR]
  NFB-8 Dac
  Phoenix Headamp
  C-3 Preamp
  C-1 Master Mono-Blocks
  SA-300 Master Mono-Blocks
  Power Filter Outlet [with Premium outlets]
   
*Tier-2 [full 24-96 sample rate support DIR9001 spdif, ACSS] [24-192 support optional]*
  CD-5 Small form factor Transport Front-End [same size as Ref-5 Dac] - NEW PRODUCT
  Digital Interface - standard [Tenor USB/DIR spdif]
  Ref-5 Dac
  NFB-1 Dac
  C-2 Headamp [imo the Roc would be better suited]
  C-500 Integrated amp
  C-39-MK3 Preamp
  C10-SE Power amp
  SA-300SE Power amp
  Power Filter Outlet standard
   
*Tier-3 [only Dac and Head amp separates]*
  NFB-2 Dac
  NFB-3 Dac
  C-2 Headamp
   
*Tier-4 Dac's with Headamp [from easily affordable to Hi-End Headamp/Dacs]*
  NFB-10 WM
  NFB-12
  FUN
  Sparrow
   
   
*Stretch objective to really keep up with the game.*
NEW PRODUCT - *DM-1 Digital Music Server* [same size as the Ref-5] keep it in the sweet spot $1k range.  Give some competition to the Logitech Transporter et.al.  This year the market is going to see a lot more products like this near and below the sweet spot price range.
   
  One final thing for all products.  Replace the current RCA jacks with Gold plated jacks.  Although functionally they may work the same, aesthetically they bring the products down.  Like $500 Italian Loafers with cheap shoe strings, sure they work the same but....Come On Man....its just not right.


----------



## Pacha

I've compared again quickly my RCA adapters (used instead of a cable between DI and DAC-19) and I found one to give obviously better soundstage. With my previous setup (HiFace) it was less apparent but now much more with the DI. The HQ is better in the end than the Real Cable.
  In any case, for around $5 it gives very good results and is in my opinion better than using a digital cable.  Both are gold plated, one 24K (I don't know about the other) and use teflon as dielectrics, PTFE also or PE maybe for the other from what it looks like.


----------



## ninjikiran

Just random post, meant to add something here decided to save it for PM\


----------



## Dynobot

You mean the Logitech Squeezebox?  No it only works with its own software/firmware front end.  Although someone did make a JRiver media center link, that would allow you to use JRiver as a gui.  I used it with my Squeezebox for some time, in fact I even created some gui skins for the normal Squeezebox web SqueezeCenter.
   
  This of course has nothing to do with the proposed Digital Server for AGD.
  
  Quote: 





ninjikiran said:


> Hey Dyno on the hole server thing, is it possible to push audio from say MPC-HC(or even WMP) Though the squeezebox?
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


----------



## ninjikiran

Yea if AGD could make a device that  claimed all those functions it would be awesome.  I would pay the money for it some day~  Also I decided to PM you, but you respond too quick


----------



## lag0a

A new upgraded DI would be great but I'm afraid it would increase in cost and shipping. The DI might be bigger in size, weigh more, need a new pcb board for acss or aes, and need further testing. Don't each input and output use different voltages? The price as it is now is already attractive for version A and B, with the option of an external PSU and upgraded clock.


----------



## Dynobot

My suggestion is to leave the current A and B versions alone. 
   
  Add a new version that would allow people with non-AGD front ends to be able to use the top features of AGD Dacs ie ACSS and AES/EBU.  Of course this would require a new approach to make ACSS work.  Probably would not be able to retro fit the current DI with ACSS [if it is even possible], but adding a upgrade clock and the Wolfson spdif as well as a AES/EBU out should be do-able with the current product.
   
  I think the whole idea is to have a way that would allow everyone with a AGD Dac to benefit from top level digital transfer, the TAS, Wolfson, new clock would put the current best into the DI.  Having ACSS and AES/EBU would just make use of the current inputs.  Otherwise just take the AES/EBU off the Dacs because 99.9% people will never use it.  I mean I can't think of a product that has a AES/EBU out, not even AGD's own CD-Transport has one.
   
  Anyways, just my wishful thinking...


----------



## Currawong

Using any Wolfson chip in the DI wouldn't affect the limits of the USB input, which are 24/96. The coax input of the DI already accepts 192k AFAIK.
   
  If you want ACSS digital connections, you'd have to persuade Kingwa to build the Reference 3 again, which had it.  I wonder if there is enough interest in a larger DI with more inputs actually. Certainly if it had optical and AES it would be more useful.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote:


dynobot said:


> Okay while I am at it, I will go ahead and make another crazy suggestion regarding the AGD line-up.
> 
> To make a clear distinction of Tiers with the AGD line-up, with existing and [proposed] NEW offerings in each Tier.  Tier-1 would be the highest.
> 
> ...


 
  So you're proposing new products that Audio-GD make? I think they need to slow down on the new product development and focus more on their management strategies.
   
  Why is everything grouped into tiers with "1 being the highest" when you have the NFB-10 in Tier 4? You have C2 in two different places, Tier 2 (what??) and Tier 3.
   
  The RCAs on all my gear from them have been gold plated and for products like the Sparrow where there's an option, there's an option.
   
  Premium outlets on the power filter? Aren't they already pretty premium compared to standard wall sockets in your house? If you're talking $50-100 an outlet stupidly overpriced Furutech crap, Kingwa is never going to make such a product because the price would be exorbitant; if you want better outlets then send him some and he'll make yours with them.
  Quote: 





dynobot said:


> My suggestion is to leave the current A and B versions alone.
> 
> Add a new version that would allow people with non-AGD front ends to be able to use the top features of AGD Dacs ie ACSS and AES/EBU.  Of course this would require a new approach to make ACSS work.  Probably would not be able to retro fit the current DI with ACSS [if it is even possible], but adding a upgrade clock and the Wolfson spdif as well as a AES/EBU out should be do-able with the current product.
> 
> I think the whole idea is to have a way that would allow everyone with a AGD Dac to benefit from top level digital transfer, the TAS, Wolfson, new clock would put the current best into the DI.  Having ACSS and AES/EBU would just make use of the current inputs.  Otherwise just take the AES/EBU off the Dacs because 99.9% people will never use it.  I mean I can't think of a product that has a AES/EBU out, not even AGD's own CD-Transport has one.


 
   
  How is AES/EBU a top feature of Audio-GD DACs? They all use coaxial RCA or BNC, and Kingwa told me that BNC is far superior to AES/EBU in jitter characteristics. How many non-Audio-GD DACs even use it? So few it'd be a pointless added fixed cost to the digital interface. And the "this would require a new approach to make ACSS work" seems kind of like non-programmers saying a program feature will just take a "line or two of code."


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





currawong said:


> Using any Wolfson chip in the DI wouldn't affect the limits of the USB input, which are 24/96. The coax input of the DI already accepts 192k AFAIK.
> 
> If you want ACSS digital connections, you'd have to persuade Kingwa to build the Reference 3 again, which had it.  I wonder if there is enough interest in a larger DI with more inputs actually. Certainly if it had optical and AES it would be more useful.


 
   
  Really, I thought 24/96 was a hardware limitation of the DIR9001 spdif.
   
  In fact I never seen a product with DIR9001 be used for anything higher than 24/96, but I think a Wolfson output would actually allow the DI to output 24/192 via coax to a Dac like the NFB-8 with a Wolfson spdif input.
   
  I think....


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> How is AES/EBU a top feature of Audio-GD DACs? They all use coaxial RCA or BNC, and Kingwa told me that BNC is far superior to AES/EBU in jitter characteristics. How many non-Audio-GD DACs even use it? So few it'd be a pointless added fixed cost to the digital interface. And the "this would require a new approach to make ACSS work" seems kind of like non-programmers saying a program feature will just take a "line or two of code."


 


  Take a look at the NFB-8 and Ref-7, the current top end Dacs..you might notice both have AES/EBU inputs.  Those are the only 2 Dacs offered with AES/EBU.  I wont comment on the subjective sound.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





dynobot said:


> Take a look at the NFB-8 and Ref-7, the current top end Dacs..you might notice both have AES/EBU inputs.  Those are the only 2 Dacs offered with AES/EBU.  I wont comment on the subjective sound.


 

 My bad, I was thinking of the single input versions of those DACs. I think the multi-input versions with AES/EBU inputs are just to give more options if someone already has a transport that can do it. I don't think they should add AES/EBU just because a couple of their products may use it.
   
  I think the single input versions having only BNC and RCA is rather telling, if AES/EBU was better sound quality wise I'm sure Kingwa would have made that the single input since he feels adding switches and such degrades sound quality. (Single input should theoretically sound the best)


----------



## Dynobot

I think you are right, BNC should be best esp for very long runs...
   
  I won't try to rank which is best or worst sounding but I am pretty sure AES/EBU is the least used of all the inputs only because so few products have AES/EBU out.  No computers and very few of the already few transports.  Maybe he should just get rid of the option all together.
  
  Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





dynobot said:


> Be careful, a comparison might not support accepted Dogma.
> 
> The Ears are lousy at reading specs and measurements.
> 
> This leaves the question, if your ears like toslink, what will you do?  Many people like toslink better but still go with coax just out of principle.


 

 I agree.
   


  Quote: 





uelover said:


> <snip>
> *For example, QED coax is bright and transparent and VDH coax is sound natural and warm. *
> <snip


 
   
  Extreme care is required when making a claim like this because frequency response is easily measured.
   
  Remember, it is the responsibility of the person making the claim to provide the proof.  If you have any data to support this, please post it.
   
  If possible please make AudioDiff recordings that we might also hear the difference. http://www.libinst.com/Audio%20DiffMaker.htm
   
  USG


----------



## ninjikiran

While I dont neccesarily believe in most of that mojo(especially when it comes to cables).  Music is about sound and what you like, placebo or not its more important that you enjoy the sound coming out of your system than it is the gear that connects to it or ties it all together.  Just don't come bragging to me about a $16,000 Glass Toslink cable, I might laugh at you. 
   
  As far as toslink vs coax, the toslink implentation between my sound card and D1 was rather spotty imo.  Not so much a difference in SQ than annoyance in audio issues.  I found the toslink to pop louder(like non-gapless audio) than the coax.  Though in terms of RAW sq the differences were imo inaudible.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  hi upstateguy,
   
  Please don't misquote me and bring everything out of context so as to debate for the sake of debating. I know I am getting you excited by generalizing and 'claiming' certain sonic characteristics to certain brands but please note that that is not my agenda here.
   
  if you finish reading the entire paragraph, i said that:
   
_'For example, QED coax is bright and transparent and VDH coax is sound natural and warm. But that tells us nothing about whether jitter is the culprit in making the sound less bright, muddy, unnatural, and etc. *Of course, I am generalizing the sonic signature of QED and VDH coax cables. I am in no way implying or suggesting that they sound that way but am just using that as an example to illustrate my point*.'_
   
  I am using QED and VDH instead of Cable A and Cable B to illustrate the point that it is not so easy for our ears to discern how would a sound be like with a lot or with little jitter through the use of different cables because there will be other things our ears will be hearing as well. I am not claiming that cables by QED and VDH sound in that manner.
   
  Anyway, the cable thing is a digression from this DI thread.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





uelover said:


> hi upstateguy,
> 
> Please don't misquote me and bring everything out of context so as to debate for the sake of debating.
> 
> ...


 

 Hi
   
  Didn't mean to take you out of context, but so doing didn't change the essence of your post.  You seem to be making the assumption that there is an audible difference in sound between digital cables.
   
  I'm not interested in a debate, never the less, I still feel that extreme care should be exercised, and proof offered, even when "generalizing", as you did.
   
  USG
   
  Edit: to clarify a bit.


----------



## uelover

Quote:


> Hi
> 
> 
> Didn't mean to take you out of context, but so doing didn't change the essence of your post.  You seem to be claiming that there is an audible difference in sound between digital cables.
> ...


 

 So whoever next that shall claim that Oyaide DR 510 (or any other digital cable) sounds nicer than a $5 coax cable will need to furnish proof too if not no one in head fi shall post their findings on digital cables? I am not sure how many of us have the appropriate equipment to measure the frequency output response. Not me certainly.
   
  All cables are constructed differently and its the way they carry information faithfully right to the end that matters. Ideally, all digital cables would carry all the digital information from one point to another with 100% accuracy and efficiency so there will be no difference across all digital cables. I too hope that this ideal case will always hold so that I can just spend little on digital cables.
   
  Sadly, my personally experience has told me that this ideal scenario doesn't exist for coax cable and different coax cable transmits digital information differently, resulting in a different frequency response in the output.
   
  But yes, I get what you mean, you want concrete evidence. I am sorry that I cannot please you.


----------



## ninjikiran

In the analog spectrum attenuation of audio frequencies is believable... but when it comes to 1's and 0's its a little more difficult to see a cable loosing the right segments of EVERY song to change its sonic signature to be warmer, or colder EVERY time.
   
  So yea I would say back your claim up if I was a manufacturer/seller with relevant information 
   
  That said, its much easier to compare on distance runs.  Differences being relative....  that huge difference is usually .00001%.
   
  But I do think everyone would agree that quality matters, but there is a point where it doesn't matter anymore.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





uelover said:


> *So whoever next that shall claim that Oyaide DR 510 (or any other digital cable) sounds nicer than a $5 coax cable will need to furnish proof too if not no one in head fi shall post their findings on digital cables?* I am not sure how many of us have the appropriate equipment to measure the frequency output response. Not me certainly.
> 
> All cables are constructed differently and its the way they carry information faithfully right to the end that matters. Ideally, all digital cables would carry all the digital information from one point to another with 100% accuracy and efficiency so there will be no difference across all digital cables. I too hope that this ideal case will always hold so that I can just spend little on digital cables.
> 
> ...


 

*It certainly would be welcome if the claims you speak of were backed up* with something as simple as Audio DiffMaker recordings. http://www.libinst.com/Audio%20DiffMaker.htm
   
  I don't understand how *"different coax cable transmits digital information differently"*?  If you intend to enlighten me, please do it in a PM, because we have digressed enough.
   
  USG
   
  Edit: spelling


----------



## Baird GoW

Quote: 





ninjikiran said:


> But I do think everyone would agree that quality matters, but there is a point where it doesn't matter anymore.


 
  EXACTLY

 Now lets get back on topic


----------



## uelover

Ok I will leave this to everyone's own ears to decide but I don't think you should reject something without even listening to it before.
  If you can hear nothing different, it is good for you actually =)
   
  Back to the topic.
   
  Curious to hear opinions from users who have gotten the new clock upgrade into the DI.


----------



## Denys

All in all, is Audio-GD Digital interface worth it ?
   
  If so, with or withou power supply ???
   
  I will soon receive my REF 5 that I am planning to use with the M2Tech. But if it's worth it, I'll order the Digital Interface and use the M2Tech on my other system, or simply sell it as my other system uses a firewire which is asynchronous anyway...
   
  Denys


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





uelover said:


> *Ok I will leave this to everyone's own ears to decide *but I don't think you should reject something without even listening to it before.
> If you can hear nothing different, it is good for you actually =)
> 
> Back to the topic.
> ...


 
   
  Leaving it to someone's ears is horse pucky.  You'd be surprised at what you could convince yourself  you've heard regarding the digital cable issue.
   
  There are those who can explain this very eloquently, but I am not one of them.
   
  So all I would like to to is to suggest exercising a fair amount of self discipline before making assumptions of that nature.
   
  Now, back to topic.
   
  USG


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





denys said:


> All in all, is Audio-GD Digital interface worth it ?
> 
> If so, with or withou power supply ???
> 
> ...


 

 Audio-GD mentioned that the PSU may improves the SQ by a little if the power from your computer USB port is 'dirty'. Going for the version B alone (USD140) for a USB to SPDIF converter is a fairly reasonable prices.
   
  Of course, judging from how upstageguy wants to exercise his dominion over this thread, I don't think anyone should offer his/her own listening experience and comparison between M2Tech and DI unless the person is about to show and prove how the frequency response is different between hiface and DI and how that has make one product better/worse than the other.
   
  tweak-fi nonetheless rates DI favorably against Modded HiFace.


----------



## littletree76

To those who are still not convinced on effectiveness of USB-to-SPDIF converter:
   
  Digital source (CD player/computer) (Jitter-1)  --> Cable (Jitter-2) --> DAC (Jitter-3)
   
  In most cases for jitter amount : Jitter-1 > Jitter-2 > Jitter-3 and it depends on quality of source, cable and DAC.
   
  At very least USB-to-SPDIF converter eliminate Jitter-1 when you have cheap/poor digital source. The same consideration has been mentioned in Digital Interface web page. So if you have high end source, cable and DAC, then don't bother to read further in this thread and there is no point of condemning the product. I can't afford those expensive high-end stuffs and prefer value for money.


----------



## rehabitat

By the same token, naysayers should, by their own standards, provide evidence for their claims. 





uelover said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Dynobot

How can you prove a subjective experience?
   
  Prove Coke tastes better than Pepsi.....
   
  For that matter prove water is wet...[wet] being nothing more than a sensory perception.
   
  Can't prove it means water is not wet right?
   

  
  Quote: 





rehabitat said:


> By the same token, naysayers should, by their own standards, provide evidence for their claims.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


----------



## rehabitat

Just trying to illustrate (rather obtusely I suppose) that it can't be proven or disproven.  It's all in the mind so live and let live I guess.


----------



## udailey

Well, still you said that people need to provide proof and I for one will go ahead and blither about my subjective experiences as often as the desire hits me.
  With RE5 and DI I use the cheap USB cable that came with my printer.
  I think the sound is fantastic. I bet that the sound would be even better if the lines in the USB cable that carry power were removed and only signal lines were there.
  When I use Toslink from CDP to RE5 I am not impressed.
  When I use COAX from CDP to DI or RE5 I like it a lot. 
 There is a big difference.
  I wont be measuring it as thats not something that I will take up my day or even a half hour doing. I dont need anyone to take me seriously as unless you are a 'guru' people will usually lump your opinion into an aggregate opinion they are forming and I operate that way so I take no offense when some newb freaks out about how wonderful the new 2" of litz wire sounds inside his amp/DAC/Pre. 
  I know its 0's and 1's. The argument is sound... lol.. the argument makes sense I should say. However, the difference I can hear is pretty obvious between COAX and Toslink and there is also a difference between USB and COAX but both are really great sounding. Toslink just sounds dirty. So what do I do when I measure and both measurements on your software come back the same? Am I to believe I didnt REALLY hear it?
  I take my ears more seriously than I take numbers. I mean really, your argument, if I ran around with that ideology, would force me to simply compare the numbers on the side of the box before buying an amp. True, right? Its to absolute, so it doesnt work. Its like claiming that lower distortion sounds better. Well, yeah but its not the only factor and some factors influence the sound a lot more which is obvious when you are comparing two amps that have distortion of .001% and yet one of them still sounds better.... well now what number matters most? Numbers help but absolute reliance on them will leave most unsatisfied.
  Uriah


----------



## Denys

Quote: 





uelover said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Thank you. I think I will order it and I'll judge by myself. Then I'll see which one I'll keep. In any case either one of them could easily be sold.
   
  I appreciate your time
   
  Denys


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





uelover said:


> Audio-GD mentioned that the PSU may improves the SQ by a little if the power from your computer USB port is 'dirty'. Going for the version B alone (USD140) for a USB to SPDIF converter is a fairly reasonable prices.
> 
> *Of course, judging from how upstageguy wants to exercise his dominion over this thread, I don't think anyone should offer his/her own listening experience and comparison between M2Tech and DI unless the person is about to show and prove how the frequency response is different between hiface and DI and how that has make one product better/worse than the other.*
> 
> tweak-fi nonetheless rates DI favorably against Modded HiFace.


 

 There's a difference between offering an opinion of your listening experience, which is what this thread is about and posting about something as if it were fact, as you did.
   
  Now, please let's get back to the topic at hand. 
   
  If you feel the necessity of continuing this line of posting, I'd be glad to continue the discussion with you via PMs.
   
  USG


----------



## Trapper32

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   


  Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You seem to be arguing for the sake of arguing.


----------



## tim3320070

What improvements might I have with the new clock? If all it does is reduce jitter further, that does not interest me so much.
   
  Kingwa, can you give your thoughts?


----------



## Dynobot

I am sure we all know by now that upgrades/tweaks and their worth is different for everyone. 
   
  Some people spend thousands for wire others see no need in spending anything over 50bucks. 
   
  Fractional improvements are of different value to everyone.


----------



## punk_guy182

A-GD charges 17USD for shipping fees and the module cannot be found on ebay or digi-key.. I was thinking of purchasing a couple of modules and ship them to other head-fiers in North America in order to save on shipping fees.
  Who would be interested in purchasing a TCXO module?


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Picked up dyno's used version B DI and got it hooked up today.  I'm hearing a pretty good improvement switching over from the macbook pro's toslink out to a parasound d/ac 1600.
   
  Weird quirk, the 1600 is an old school dac; it has cute little lights that show what the sample rate is (32/44/48) and whether or not HDCD playback is occuring.  These lights do not light up with the DI connected in the chain.  I've double checked audio midi and fiddled with the bit-depth and sample rates and still no go.  I've also changed between non upsample and upsample mode with the same results.
   
  Very nice sound so far though!


----------



## Denys

Quote: 





mr.sneis said:


> Picked up dyno's used version B DI and got it hooked up today.  I'm hearing a pretty good improvement switching over from the macbook pro's toslink out to a parasound d/ac 1600.
> 
> Weird quirk, the 1600 is an old school dac; it has cute little lights that show what the sample rate is (32/44/48) and whether or not HDCD playback is occuring.  These lights do not light up with the DI connected in the chain.  I've double checked audio midi and fiddled with the bit-depth and sample rates and still no go.  I've also changed between non upsample and upsample mode with the same results.
> 
> Very nice sound so far though!


 

 So you're the one who was faster than me !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Ah ! Well !! Glad it improved your system....For me I'll just have to order one from Audio GD...
   
  Denys


----------



## Justin Uthadude

Quote: 





mr.sneis said:


> Picked up dyno's used version B DI and got it hooked up today.  I'm hearing a pretty good improvement switching over from the macbook pro's toslink out to a parasound d/ac 1600.
> 
> Weird quirk, the 1600 is an old school dac; it has cute little lights that show what the sample rate is (32/44/48) and whether or not HDCD playback is occuring.  These lights do not light up with the DI connected in the chain.  I've double checked audio midi and fiddled with the bit-depth and sample rates and still no go.  I've also changed between non upsample and upsample mode with the same results.
> 
> Very nice sound so far though!


 

 Do you suspect it's 96k and not registering because it's not 32/44/48?


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Well at stock jumper settings the DI supposedly passes through what the transport is putting out; which in my case is 16-bit 44.1khz.
   
  That said punk_guy I'm down for the clock upgrade and maybe a PSU if you are.  Am I right in seeing that it is solderless install?  I'm fine either way but it's hard to understand what the website is saying LOL.


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> A-GD charges 17USD for shipping fees and the module cannot be found on ebay or digi-key.. I was thinking of purchasing a couple of modules and ship them to other head-fiers in North America in order to save on shipping fees.
> Who would be interested in purchasing a TCXO module?


 

 I would but Canada-US is still $14 using USPS.
  Maybe I should do your idea as I am in the US and there may be more users down here. Better yet, Kingwa should send some to Pacific Valve.


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





dynobot said:


> I am sure we all know by now that upgrades/tweaks and their worth is different for everyone.
> 
> Some people spend thousands for wire others see no need in spending anything over 50bucks.
> 
> Fractional improvements are of different value to everyone.


 
  Well this isn't a cable, it actually affects the sound with hardware, the question is how much. I can barely (read probably not at all) hear the difference with the upsampling enabled (or even the PSU) so I have some doubts about the clock. Still, $45 might be worth it to me.
  Just wondering and would like Kingwa to chime in.


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 It's cheaper to send from Canada to the US than vice-versa.
  So far I have 2 head-fiers other than me interested in purchasing the clocks.
  I'll write to Kingwa and find out if I can get a rebate on a batch of 5-10 modules.
   
  Please I'd like to know if others are interested. I would like to order before the end of this week.


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  What is that cost? And Kingwa usually sells these at cost.


----------



## Alexdad54

Mostly a lurker here but I'm in for one of the new clocks for my B version DI.


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Yeah I would like Kingwa to chime in too, esp to my suggestion for the Tier line-up of his gear....hinting and hoping for a Digital Music Player.
   
  Just go ahead and order the new clock, 9 times out of 10 you probably will anyways sooner or later.
   
  I like how the TentLabs clock sounds in mine, albeit only one....I forgot all about the one under the DSP module.  Worth $45 Hmmmmm, well that depends.  I have heard cheaper tweaks give greater improvements and I have purchased more expensive tweaks/upgrades that gave less.  For me, sure why not, I'd do it again and even recommend it.  Coherent is the word, more of it.
   
  FYI, I sold one DI with plans to replace it with a coax-in version....I will order it with the upgraded clocks if possible.  Sure would like if I could get it with a Wolfson Spdif instead of the DIR.
   
  I'm in the process of rebuilding my main rig, just got some new Mono-Blocks and a AGD C-39 Pre will be in the mix too.  I've been auditioning non-computer based digital front ends lately.


----------



## Dynobot

People talk about worth....I too think about that and the Grand-Scheme-of-Things ie the Big Picture over the long haul.  Mainly because looking back I realized that I have probably spent more than I would have liked, a few hundred dollars at a time.  Looking at all the Dac's I have purchased taking into account the few hundred here or there I have lost on resale I figure if I had waited 2-3 years to buy "one" really good Dac I could have purchased a Prism Morpheus or something in that range. 
   
  Say for example you buy a DI plus the power supply plus a couple of good cables [usb and bnc], and new clocks.  That would run you close to $500 easy.  Just wait a little bit and put another $500 with it to purchase a Antelope Audio Master-reClock and a couple of cheap Blue Jeans cables.  The Antelope product would put an end to tweaking/upgrading, and end forever the thoughts of jitter.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Dynobot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Say for example you buy a DI plus the power supply plus a couple of good cables [usb and bnc], and new clocks.  *That would run you close to $500 easy.  Just wait a little bit and put another $500 with it to purchase a Antelope Audio Master-reClock *and a couple of cheap Blue Jeans cables.  The Antelope product would put an end to tweaking/upgrading, and end forever the thoughts of jitter.


 

  
  I disagree, a DI ($180) + PS ($75) + Clock ($23) + Shipping/Fees ($30) + Monoprice USB ($1) + BJC BNC ($20) = $329, barely halfway to $500. Also, I looked up that reclocker thing and it costs €1300, or about $1750. So the difference between a "fully upgraded" DI and the reclocker is about $1400... a tad expensive. I'd rather not argue about cables, I think most would consider Monoprice's USB cables to be of high quality, and bluejeanscable is extremely solid as well.
   
  To me, the digital interface seems like great bang for your buck, seeing as the clock isn't necessary if not upsampling and the power supply is fairly optional. I just can't see losing enough money buying and selling gear to afford a $1750 reclocker. You also have to take into account diminishing returns with such a high level of jitter reduction with an expensive reclocker, is it really going to make a $1700 difference in sound, or would it have been better spent getting a $1700 DAC that already handles jitter like a pro?


----------



## Dynobot

Hmmmmmm, okay
   
   
   
   
  Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## lag0a

Antelope Audio should sell a scaled down version with lesser inputs and outputs, and hopefully cost significantly less.


----------



## Dynobot

I agree, but I think their whole business plan is to NOT cater to the 1K and below crowd.  Case in point, the lower price AA Dac, they really have no interest in seeing themselves being compared to Benchmark et.al, they are in the Wiess and above league [in their minds] IMO of course.
   
  $1K Antelope Audio Isochrone DA Reclocker ultra low jitter, to the point that it is zero.


----------



## punk_guy182

Alright guys. I received the ok from Kingwa.
  He will send me a batch and I'll be able to ship them out to who ever is interested. I'll have 10 modules. So far I have 3 people interested.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Wow nice work, thanks for tackling this 
   
  So let's say I wanted a power supply... would it just be smarter to get that separately or just forget about it?


----------



## punk_guy182

Regarding the external power supply unit for the DI, you'll have to contact A-GD.
  However, I can add that I don't think that it is a worthy upgrade unless you have very bad AC in your PC or laptop.
  Many people have said that there is not much of a difference in terms of SQ by using the PSU with the DI.


----------



## shogo33

Yesterday i removed the DSP3 board to check out the XO underneath the DSP board.  I tried to remove it but cant seem to do so(must be soldered to the pcb,i think).  Also, the XO is rated at 24.576 like the upsampling stock XO.
   
  Has anyone had success of removing this XO and replacing it with another like the Tentlabs XO?
   
  Also, does anyone know if the software is upgradable for the DSP3 module, like the one done for the DSP1 upgrade to v.5?


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote: 





shogo33 said:


> Also, does anyone know if the software is upgradable for the DSP3 module, like the one done for the DSP1 upgrade to v.5?


 
  There are no flaws in the DSP3 software according to Kingwa. The DSP1 was another story though.


----------



## Pacha

Personally I find the PSU to be worth the upgrade in my rig, plus it's not super expensive so you may give it a try if you're interested.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





pacha said:


> Personally I find the PSU to be worth the upgrade in my rig, plus it's not super expensive so you may give it a try if you're interested.


 

 How are you using the digital interface exactly, USB from your computer? If it's a desktop, do you know what power supply you have? If it's a laptop, are you plugged in while listening?


----------



## Dynobot

Depending on the quality of USB power there will definitely be a difference in sound quality.  The old adage stands, junk-in, junk-out....of course whether or not you actually can hear the junk depends on other factors.


----------



## lag0a

Is it true that jitter only lies in the digital domain before the DAC and once it becomes analogue after the DAC it becomes permanent?
  Also I am wondering why some DAC or cdplayers I've read have 10mhz or a 12mhz clock. What is it for? Is that more important than the 24.576 reclocking clock?


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





dynobot said:


> Depending on the quality of USB power there will definitely be a difference in sound quality.  The old adage stands, junk-in, junk-out....of course whether or not you actually can hear the junk depends on other factors.


 

 Anyone knows how to determine if one's USB power is 'dirty' or of acceptable standard? I assume that new PCs in the market nowadays as well as battery powered laptop has 'cleaner' USB power but please correct me if I am wrong.
   
  Might be useful for potential buyers of DI on whether they would need the external PSU =)


----------



## Denys

Quote: 





uelover said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'll find out soon.... I should receive my REF5 hopefully next week, and it will be "hooked" to a notebook USB..... a cheap MSI notebook... I will receive my Digital Interface after Feb 15, therefore, I'll have plenty of time to find out !!!!
   
  Denys


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





uelover said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Best way to find out is with your ears.  Otherwise you are just leading your perception with a preconceived expectation.
   
  However this requires that you trust your ears and are willing to put aside any Audiophile-phobias and accept the findings regardless if they support accepted Audiophile Dogma.
   
  Or you can always look at a spec and tell yourself it sounds best...


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





uelover said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'd say most newer laptops running off battery should have clean power. For desktops, you want a power supply from a reliable maker (Seasonic, Corsair, etc.) with low 5V ripple ratings. If you buy a desktop and can't configure the power supply, it has a cheap piece of crap in it that will dirty up the power.


----------



## holland

Quote: 





uelover said:


> Anyone knows how to determine if one's USB power is 'dirty' or of acceptable standard? I assume that new PCs in the market nowadays as well as battery powered laptop has 'cleaner' USB power but please correct me if I am wrong.
> 
> Might be useful for potential buyers of DI on whether they would need the external PSU =)


 


  Use an oscilloscope.


----------



## Dynobot

I don't see why people get caught up on using high calibrated industrial instruments to get measurements that they can not even hear.
   
  The human range of hearing is 20Hz-20KHz and 99% of people can't even hear that.
   
  Its like testing molecules in your food to make sure their is an even distribution of fat, spices, and meat to make sure the flavor [sound] you are tasting [hearing] is what you like [perceive].
   
  Audiophillia is truly an insane hobby.
   
  Next time you 'seem' to enjoy a movie why not get the pixel, light saturation, and gama specs to make sure all the details are exactly perfect first....but then a Videophile might just do that....


----------



## ninjikiran

I think the point is to prove if their would be audibility or not.  Its a little harder to buy a digital cable making a signal colder or warmer.
   
  Though I think the cable and digital source are not the issue imo, its the connection between the digital signal and the dac where the magic happens.  I think its on the analog side(measurements) is where you can see whether or not a transport is doing something different, or whether that low jitter is giving you a more transparent connection.  Since before the line its the same 1's and 0's but afterwards you can actually measure audible frequencies.
   
  If there is a measurable difference on this end of the spectrum it is more reasonable to believe a change in what you hear
   
  Granted most people should not care, or be arsed to care about stuff like this.  If you enjoy your gear, just bloody darn enjoy it.  But there will always be people questioning everything and thats why humans are awesome =D.
   
  Me, I don't have the time or tools to measure any of this.  And while my ears are healthy enough at my age to still reliably here the 17-18khz range and 20-30hz range I often can't detect a difference between some audiophile quibbles.  If something sounds better though then I am going to enjoy it more which is always a nice suprise when I try out my old gear after being with my new gear for a while.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





dynobot said:


> Best way to find out is with your ears.  Otherwise you are just leading your perception with a preconceived expectation.
> 
> However this requires that you trust your ears and *are willing to put aside any Audiophile-phobias and accept the findings regardless if they support accepted Audiophile Dogma*.
> 
> Or you can always look at a spec and tell yourself it sounds best...


 

 I would think that's a very tough thing to do..... 
   


  Quote: 





dynobot said:


> *I don't see why people get caught up on using high calibrated industrial instruments to get measurements that they can not even hear.*
> 
> The human range of hearing is 20Hz-20KHz and 99% of people can't even hear that.
> 
> ...


 

 Good post Dyno.


----------



## upstateguy

Just had another thought.
   
  Has anyone compared the DI to the HRT  asynchronous. streamer?
   
  Apologies if this has already been covered.
   
  USG


----------



## leeperry

uelover said:


> Anyone knows how to determine if one's USB power is 'dirty' or of acceptable standard?


 

 The issue is not the ATX PSU ripple per se, it's that this PSU is shared w/ the graphic card, HDD, CPU and so....nothing's worse ripple-wise than a defragmenting HDD. It will aso flush a lot of noise to the ground, hence the need for galvanic isolation(many ppl can hear their graphic card sing due to very this problem). You can find at the bottom of this page some USB power ripple measurements: http://www.aqvox.de/usb-power_en.html
   




   
  thoppa ran the same kind of tests, and gave the same conclusions.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> uelover said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone knows how to determine if one's USB power is 'dirty' or of acceptable standard?
> ...


 

 Again, if you have a high quality power supply this isn't much of an issue. I have a Corsair HX750w in my computer and in reviews it has extremely low 5V ripple. 10mV or less under various loads, and 12mV when it was providing 870W of power instead of the rated 750. Compare that to the 39 and 57mV ripple from your link, and the galvanic isolation only dropped it to 10. Low quality power supplies that Dell, HP, etc. put into their computers are the ones to watch out for.


----------



## leeperry

somestranger26 said:


> Again, if you have a high quality power supply this isn't much of an issue. I have a Corsair HX750w in my computer and in reviews it has extremely low 5V ripple (under 12mV with various loads). Compare that to the 39 and 57mV from your link, and the galvanic isolation didn't drop it much below 12. Low quality power supplies that Dell, HP, etc. put into their computers are the ones to watch out for.


 

 Again, this has nothing to do w/ how the PSU does in stress tests. I can show you some tests where the Corsair's indeed do provide acceptable 5V ripple measurements(14mV at full load) on a test bench.
   
  But install all the noisy components onto the mobo, share the USB power ripple with the other components(single rail FTW), share the PSU ground w/ them all as well....those figures will drastically increase. Everyone hears an improvement using third party PSU's because sharing the PSU is where the issue lies...especially w/ HDD's. That's what measurements and personal experience have taught me, have you tried it yourself? USB power is filthy and there's no way around it in many ppl's experience.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote:  





> That's what measurements and personal experience have taught me, have you tried it yourself? USB power is filthy and there's no way around it in many ppl's experience.


 

 My USB power was perfectly fine with the Hiface (my Digital Interface is with DHL right now) so I assume it will be fine for the DI as well.
  Quote: 





			
				leeperry said:
			
		

> /img/forum/go_quote.gif





> But install all the noisy components onto the mobo, share the USB power ripple with the other components(single rail FTW), share the PSU ground w/ them all as well....those figures will drastically increase. Everyone hears an improvement using third party PSU's because sharing the PSU is where the issue lies...especially w/ HDD's.


 
   
  Well, in benches I've seen of my power supply it has much higher +12V ripple than +5V so the ripple doesn't seem to carry through the DC-DC converter. Also, the 5V isn't powering anything like graphics cards or your CPU, it's only providing part of the power for hard drives, optical drives, fans, and a few other things. Most of the power is getting used on the +12V rail and that's where you can see the ripple "drastically increasing". I'm confused about your second sentence, it seems like you're agreeing with me that the key to good usb power is a good power supply.


----------



## lag0a

If you want to test the sounds coming from your computer try hearing what it sounds like lets say at 1 ghz and 1.1 volt using x1 CPU core vs higher ghz and high voltage CPU even more than one core. You will know how your music can sound from just changing that then you know it isn't even close to bitperfect or what music should sound.


----------



## somestranger26

Something is seriously wrong with your power supply (or maybe motherboard) if it doesn't sound like music should sound.
   
  Also, modern CPUs undervolt to 1.1/1.2V when not being utilized heavily (most of the time).


----------



## Baird GoW

Hi there folks!
 Just so y'all know I have seven 1.5TB hard Drives in Raid 6 and I hear nothing even when transferring terabytes of information.
 Also I may upgrade my sas to sata connectors to right angle ones as I hear right angle sata cables make a large difference in sound stage.
 O geez... looks like I need to downgrade my pc from a sexto-core to a single core processor. Must it also be clocked at exactly 1ghz?


----------



## lag0a

Have you compared the difference? Can you confirm it sounds the same? I didn't say anything about the power supply, the motherboard, and how music should sound according to your response. I know some CPUs have different power states or power stages at idle and low CPU usage. I don't know what you're trying to say and I'm guessing you're responding to my post.
   
  Also I've discovered indepth lately that different parts of a DAC have software modes and the built in software may have more tweaking options than hardware mode that most people use in their DAC. I think these software modes are mainly in the digital stage and possibly only boards with jumpers or settings on them used for hardware mode. Each spdif tranceiver, asrc spdif, and dac may be accessed in software mode. 
   
http://hifiduino.wordpress.com/2011/01/14/sabre32-dac-i2s-further-experiments/

  
  Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Something is seriously wrong with your power supply (or maybe motherboard) if it doesn't sound like music should sound.
> 
> Also, modern CPUs undervolt to 1.1/1.2V when not being utilized heavily (most of the time).


----------



## somestranger26

I noticed a difference when I upgraded to my current power supply, but never a difference swapping components, such as going from one hard drive to six or upgrading my graphics card. Have _you_ compared a good power supply to a bad power supply, rather than simply assuming that your underclock/volt will make a difference regardless of power supply quality?
   
  You definitely did mention "what music should sound" and the motherboard/power supply are implicit problems, because if you have a good psu and mobo you shouldn't hear a difference undervolting your CPU. Also, undervolting and underclocking is quite unnecessary seeing as foobar2000 uses 1% of my CPU... enabling it to be underclocked and undervolted automatically.
  
  Quote: 





			
				lag0a said:
			
		

> /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> If you want to test the sounds coming from your computer try hearing what it sounds like lets say at 1 ghz and 1.1 volt using x1 CPU core vs higher ghz and high voltage CPU even more than one core. You will know how your music can sound from just changing that then *you know it isn't even close to bitperfect or what music should sound.*


 
  Quote:


lag0a said:


> Have you compared the difference? Can you confirm it sounds the same? *I didn't say anything about* the power supply, the motherboard, and *how music should sound* according to your response. I know some CPUs have different power states or power stages at idle and low CPU usage. I don't know what you're trying to say and I'm guessing you're responding to my post.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


----------



## leeperry

somestranger26 said:


> My USB power was perfectly fine with the Hiface


 

 A famous mod for the Hiface is to ditch the USB power, and use batteries instead....everyone's claimed hearing a major SQ improvement. A Corsair PSU is cheap nowadays, but keep thinking that they were all using noname PSU's if you like. It's got nothing to do w/ the PSU results on a test bench, it's got to do w/ sharing noisy components on the same PSU rail.


----------



## Trapper32

Most of the noisy components are on the 12 volt rail aren't they and the usb the 5v..so they aren't sharing the same rail...  Keep thinking all computers are the same if you want to.
  Quote: 





leeperry said:


> somestranger26 said:
> 
> 
> > My USB power was perfectly fine with the Hiface
> ...


----------



## zenpunk

Just record a 3mn track of silence in audacity and play it through your headphone with all volumes maxed out and listen to all those "dirty" power rails and "noisy" components....
  OOoops! Can't hear a thing! ...
  You can repeat the test with the different inputs of your dac and while copying large files between hard drives or having your video card doing intensive rendering to test it out. With my system I get nada, completely black background however hard I try.


----------



## leeperry

trapper32 said:


> Most of the noisy components are on the 12 volt rail aren't they and the usb the 5v..so they aren't sharing the same rail


 
   
  HDD's ruin the 5V ripple, and all components flush to the ground...which ends up dirty as hell. Breaking news, I know.
  


zenpunk said:


> Just record a 3mn track of silence in audacity and play it through your headphone with all volumes maxed out and listen to all those "dirty" power rails and "noisy" components....
> OOoops! Can't hear a thing! ...
> You can repeat the test with the different inputs of your dac and while copying large files between hard drives or having your video card doing intensive rendering to test it out. With my system I get nada, completely black background however hard I try.


 

 Oh yah, we should all go back to Realtek's.


----------



## ninjikiran

On my current machine I have not heard any kind of noise or nastiness using my sound cards output in analog and digital as well.  (This was not true on my older computers)
   
  Though I would be more worried about the noise a computer makes more than its PSU.  Considering you can supply USB-->Spdif converters with an external power supply with those fancy ADUM units if the situation ever arises its a fixable problem.  If your happy with how everything is in your system, its best just go with what you feel best.
   
  As for leeperry, his brain is galvonically isolated on every level  
   
  @Leeperry
  Your sarcasm sometimes confuses me 
  Quote: 





zenpunk said:


> Just record a 3mn track of silence in audacity and play it through your headphone with all volumes maxed out and listen to all those "dirty" power rails and "noisy" components....
> OOoops! Can't hear a thing! ...
> You can repeat the test with the different inputs of your dac and while copying large files between hard drives or having your video card doing intensive rendering to test it out. With my system I get nada, completely black background however hard I try.


----------



## Trapper32

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> trapper32 said:
> 
> 
> > Most of the noisy components are on the 12 volt rail aren't they and the usb the 5v..so they aren't sharing the same rail
> ...


 

 SSD's?  External drives?  all psu's or only certain ones?  every motherboard?  every video card?  etc etc   Its easy to generalize without providing proof.  There's just too many variables to make a blanket statement regarding all computers... breaking news flash.


----------



## udailey

I dont know if anyone has looked at the internals of a Audio-GD device, but I get the funny feeling that he feels power supplies are extremely important to sound quality. He also has separate power supplies for each important piece of the device. A digital signal isnt actually zeros and ones at all. Its voltage fluctuations. We code in a zero and the computer generates a voltage that it interprets as a zero... so if you have a dirty supply I can imagine some misinterpretation going on from computer to DAC.


----------



## Trapper32

Quote: 





udailey said:


> I dont know if anyone has looked at the internals of a Audio-GD device, but I get the funny feeling that he feels power supplies are extremely important to sound quality. He also has separate power supplies for each important piece of the device. A digital signal isnt actually zeros and ones at all. Its voltage fluctuations. We code in a zero and the computer generates a voltage that it interprets as a zero... so if you have a dirty supply I can imagine some misinterpretation going on from computer to DAC.


 


  Indeed, most of the Audio_GD gear has substantial power supplies built into the gear and is undoubtedly one of the reasons why they sound so good.  The fact that Kingwa feels that USB power for his Digital Interface "can work well " and only provides a power supply as an option however, should tell you something. .  In any event, more than a few head-fiers are entirely satisfied with their "dirty" usb power feeding their DI.


----------



## lag0a

When a head-fier believes in buying any electronic equipment and there is nothing to mod or nothing worth modding then you know what they will settle for. Some people won't settle for anything because they know it will improve their sound quality so its up to what you wish to believe.

  
  Quote: 





trapper32 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## leeperry

lag0a said:


> When a head-fier believes in buying any electronic equipment and there is nothing to mod or nothing worth modding then you know what they will settle for. Some people won't settle for anything because they know it will improve their sound quality so its up to what you wish to believe.


 

 I'm not sure what you're referring to exactly, but there's many real world measurements to back up my statements. I already posted a few and you might as well look up thoppa's tests results on the forum and on diyparadise.com.
   
  As been said, Kingwa is well aware of how important a good PSU is..and most everyone who tried the DI+PSU combo stated that the SQ improvement was drastic. Audio is nasty coz you can never know what you're missing, simply rest assured that they're always something better sounding out there...there is no such thing as 100% perfect SQ. Someone used to a Realtek will be as happy as an OCD'ed guy using more expensive audio gear, they simply have different standards...because one has heard better gear than the other.
   
  Ignorance is bliss. You can find zillions positive feedbacks on the DT770/Pro80....seriously? for $179? same goes for the Denon d2k IMO. everyone who tried the jkeny hiface went nuts, do you think they all fell for placebo? Give them back a stock hiface and they'll hate it, even though they used to like it before.
   
  A cleaner and isolated power signal goes a long way...the dirtier it is, the more edgy/harsh/colored the sound will be. And the only way to find out is by hearing it w/ your own ears.


----------



## haloxt

Electrical pollution is different place to place. Some electrical grids are a lot cleaner than others, and I believe, but am not sure, the city Kingwa lives in has cleaner than average power. So assuming he is using a TYPICAL computer as transport, there may be less difference between DI and DI+PSU for him, and he does say himself the difference is not major. For a place with really polluted electricity, the difference may be bigger.
   
  I do agree with the last few posts by leeperry regarding how polluted the computer can be, although all computers have different hardware and so are all different when it comes to noise. But I am not as confident when it comes to the degree of audibility of the noise, not something I have investigated too much and I don't plan to . People who tweak computers for transport do agree with leeperry about eliminating hardware unessential for music playback, but I personally don't really bother, not that OCD that I would take out my graphics card I need for games .


----------



## lag0a

Does anyone know where I can find a 22.5792 or 24.576 mhz 3.3v 1ppm as either an external clock or a replacement clock? PM me if you know, thanks.


----------



## shogo33

tentlabs.  I got my 24.567 clock from them.  A-Gd were selling some too, but i think kingwa made only 20 units.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





			
				leeperry said:
			
		

> /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Mind providing a source? HDDs use 5V and *12V*, not just 5V. Ripple on the 12V doesn't really make it through the 12VDC -> 5VDC converter.
  Quote: 





leeperry said:


> As been said, Kingwa is well aware of how important a good PSU is..and most everyone who tried the DI+PSU combo stated that the SQ improvement was drastic. Audio is nasty coz you can never know what you're missing, simply rest assured that they're always something better sounding out there...there is no such thing as 100% perfect SQ. Someone used to a Realtek will be as happy as an OCD'ed guy using more expensive audio gear, they simply have different standards...because one has heard better gear than the other.
> *Really, because FWIR **the DI+PSU combo has made a small difference for the majority of users...*
> 
> everyone who tried the jkeny hiface went nuts, do you think they all fell for placebo? Give them back a stock hiface and they'll hate it, even though they used to like it before.
> ...


----------



## Dynobot

Exactly right, some will say that electrical pollution is different from time to time. 
   
  I think people feel comfortable believing things that support their preconceived notions most of all followed by strong popular opinion. 
   
  I guess do what your wallet and your conscience tells you in right.  I for one can't hear a single note coming from someone elses set-up so what they choose matters little to me.
   
  Regarding Lee, he is slightly off his rocker, in a mad scientist kind of way...you can believe he has done some research and/or tests to confirm his findings.
  
  Quote: 





haloxt said:


> Electrical pollution is different place to place. Some electrical grids are a lot cleaner than others, and I believe, but am not sure, the city Kingwa lives in has cleaner than average power. So assuming he is using a TYPICAL computer as transport, there may be less difference between DI and DI+PSU for him, and he does say himself the difference is not major. For a place with really polluted electricity, the difference may be bigger.
> 
> I do agree with the last few posts by leeperry regarding how polluted the computer can be, although all computers have different hardware and so are all different when it comes to noise. But I am not as confident when it comes to the degree of audibility of the noise, not something I have investigated too much and I don't plan to . People who tweak computers for transport do agree with leeperry about eliminating hardware unessential for music playback, but I personally don't really bother, not that OCD that I would take out my graphics card I need for games .


----------



## lag0a

The more I read about the use of clocks in audio equipment the more it seems not as relevant. It seems even if you have a superior clock before the DAC known as the sampler clock I think if the clock is just retiming garbage in (garbage as in power supply noise and accumulated jitter) then the retimed garbage out is still garbage. I thought at first a clock could retime the spdif signal entering the DAC into a pure untouched signal from the original transport source but that seems more difficult to attain.


----------



## Dynobot

You have a point Iag0a, besides no matter how jitter-free the clock can make the data, the self noise/jitter of the spdif out is likely more than the clock anyways.
   
  Besides the DI needs the Wolfson spdif out otherwise its being bottle-necked by the hardware limitations of the DIR spdif at 96Khz.   The Wolfson will give you the whole 192Khz that the DI can upsample too.
   
  Currently the only AGD Dac that I know of that can actually handle incoming 192Khz is the NFB-8 because it has the Wolfson spdif.  Others have the Tenor so 96Khz is the limit.  Kingwa really needs to use Wolfson SPDIF across the board.


----------



## Currawong

He's selling the Sabre DACs again, due to demand, so you can add those.
   
  The problem with this discussion is that we can't easily do measurements ourselves and the set up of PC power supplies and motherboards isn't by any means universal.


----------



## Pacha

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  USB to the DI, DI powered by external PSU from Audio-gd, DI plugged directly in the DAC with RCA adapter.
  PC PSU is a Seasonic S12 600 HT (1st model, probably the more stable one regarding voltages).


----------



## Dynobot

After some time with my Tentlabs clock I can say it sounds better in all situations, much better coherence 
   
  I need to ask Kingwa if I can get a DI with a Wolfson spdif instead of the DIR because I need one with a coax in and out for the full 192Khz sample rate.
   
  Otherwise I might be looking at a different brand


----------



## shogo33

Did you replace both clocks or just the upsampling clock?


----------



## Dynobot

Just the upsampling clock.
   
  Both clocks are 24.576 which means your should sample at either rate below to get best results
 

[size=10pt]*48Hz* x 512Fs = *[size=10pt]24.576MHz[/size]*[/size]

[size=10pt]*96Hz* x 256Fs = *[size=10pt]24.576MHz[/size]*[/size]


----------



## borrego

dynobot said:


> After some time with my Tentlabs clock I can say it sounds better in all situations, much better coherence
> 
> I need to ask Kingwa if I can get a DI with a Wolfson spdif instead of the DIR because I need one with a coax in and out for the full 192Khz sample rate.
> 
> Otherwise I might be looking at a different brand




The DI is limited to 24bit/96kHz by the Tenor TE7022 Chip, even if the Wolfson chip is used.


----------



## uelover

The Tentlabs clock is € 24,37 excl. VAT...


----------



## shogo33

Highly recommend the Tentlabs XO for the DI.  Improvements are noticable and less digital sounding than the original clock.


----------



## hawkhead

Not to mention their absolute rubbish service  . . .
  
  Quote: 





uelover said:


> The Tentlabs clock is € 24,37 excl. VAT...


----------



## uelover

How was your experience with them?
  I only know that their shipping cost to my country is as expensive as the clock itself.
  
  Quote: 





hawkhead said:


> Not to mention their absolute rubbish service  . . .
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


----------



## lag0a

How would the tentlabs XO compare to the JYEC TCXO upgrade clock audio-gd is selling? Does anyone have dimensions and specs for the audio-gd upgrade clock?


----------



## Pacha

I suppose that the clock brings improvement when upsampling to 96KHz as it's a clock for upsampling, but how does it scales with bypass mode?
   
  I mean, I personally prefer bypass mode over upsampling with default clock on the DI. Does upsampling at 96KHz with new clock sound better than bypass mode and upsampling at 96 with default clock?


----------



## hawkhead

Tentlabs:
   
  Clock ordered (and paid for) with 3 day delivery on 7th Jan
   
  email sent 13th Jan asking where is order - no reply
   
  Another email chasing order on 17th Jan this time a reply:
   
  "The payment confirmation from Paypal didn't make it through the spam filters, this ocasionally happens. Will ship today."
   
  well you tard add an exception to the filters!!!
   
  more emails chasing - it arrived on the 27th Jan
   
  no offer of a (shipping) refund!


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





borrego said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Yes i know, as I stated in my post I will need one with coax IN and OUT for the full 192Khz, dont plan on using usb for that one at all.


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





pacha said:


> I suppose that the clock brings improvement when upsampling to 96KHz as it's a clock for upsampling, but how does it scales with bypass mode?
> 
> I mean, I personally prefer bypass mode over upsampling with default clock on the DI. Does upsampling at 96KHz with new clock sound better than bypass mode and upsampling at 96 with default clock?


 
  To my ears 44.1 sounds best but I have noticed [via placebo or not] that music sounds best 1)with the lowest sample rate ie 44.1 or 48K and 2)music sounds best at the sample rate that coincides with the clock frequency.
   
  imo, these improvements [clocks] are fractional...not major night-and-day changes.


----------



## shogo33

Quote: 





hawkhead said:


> Tentlabs:
> 
> Clock ordered (and paid for) with 3 day delivery on 7th Jan
> 
> ...


 

 Same..service is pretty poor from Tentlabs.  When i ordered my XO back in late Nov, waited 2 weeks, got quoted 'Item was posted but due to Postal Strikes in the Netherlands, it will be delayed."  and then 4 days later got another email stating that it will be delayed again as strikes are back on."  At that stage i wasnt confident that it was going to arrive before xmas.  Then on Xmas eve, came back from work, got the note to pick up the XO from the local post office 
   
  So, expect delays for otherwise a good product.


----------



## shogo33

Quote: 





dynobot said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 i found that with pop, rock or high energy music, the upsampling works well.  With jazz its better without upsampling.


----------



## lag0a

Does anyone know how the Audiophilleo 2 compare to the DI? They seem to use a lot of similar features.


----------



## Pacha

Quote: 





shogo33 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   I agree as 96K upsampling tends to smooth the sound and give less focus hence less fatiguing sound on high energy music, while bypass mode gives more body and focus to jazz, for the good.


----------



## ninjikiran

There is no switch on the chasis itself for upsample modes which imo makes switching modes a bit more difficult if you want to play with it.  An idea is dip-switches similar to what is on the M-Stage amp.
   
  Waiting for King-Wa to finalize the new clock before I grab a DI.  I am already impressed by how clean the NFB-2 is connected to USB and thats with cheap buds.
  Quote: 





pacha said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Dynobot

There have been lots of comparisons between the DI and other USB/SPDIF converters.  Just for kicks has anyone went back to compare the DI or their favorite converter to your computers spdif out?
   
  Its easy to get yourself isolated into a corner of methods or practices in this audio game, and winding up living in a bubble of dogma.
   
  Case in point the use of toslink followed by the dogma surrounding coax/bnc which made people categorically dismiss toslink all together and now the reemergence of people using and liking toslink.
   
  I find its always good to go back and test the so-called improvements to the base-line.  I did that with power cords on certain equipment and found that stock power cords sounded best [for them]


----------



## dodap

Quote: 





lag0a said:


> Does anyone know how the Audiophilleo 2 compare to the DI? They seem to use a lot of similar features.


 

 But they seem not to have the same price tag: $ 500 versus $ 140/$ 215 (with PSU)!


----------



## leeperry

dynobot said:


> There have been lots of comparisons between the DI and other USB/SPDIF converters.  Just for kicks has anyone went back to compare the DI or their favorite converter to your computers spdif out?
> 
> Its easy to get yourself isolated into a corner of methods or practices in this audio game, and winding up living in a bubble of dogma.


 
   
  Exactly, and I wonder which ones use two discrete clocks for 44.1 and 48 multiples? only m2tech and the Envy24 DSP? coz whatever PCM2704 or TE7022L both use a single 12Mhz PLL, and 44.1 isn't quite up to par to upsampled 96kHz on selected recordings IME. Now, is it due to the evil J or because upsampling REALLY improves the waveforms(as explained in this PDF) is up to discussion:


----------



## Dynobot

Actually I don't think people seem to care or even think about the clocks frequency relative to the sample rate.  Most times people look only at jitter numbers, and maybe if the product has true 75ohm.  This leaves the door open to manufacturers to put any-ol-clock in converters as long as the jitter numbers are low.  Who cares if the clocks frequency is not a multiple of any known sample rate....
   
  Companies that pay attention to details like using the "Right" clock frequency to apply to the "Right" sample rate show they are truly concerned about sound vs. profits, amongst other things.....
   

  
  Quote: 





leeperry said:


> dynobot said:
> 
> 
> > There have been lots of comparisons between the DI and other USB/SPDIF converters.  Just for kicks has anyone went back to compare the DI or their favorite converter to your computers spdif out?
> ...


----------



## leeperry

dynobot said:


> Actually I don't think people seem to care or even think about the clocks frequency relative to the sample rate.  Most times people look only at jitter numbers, and maybe if the product has true 75ohm.  This leaves the door open to manufacturers to put any-ol-clock in converters as long as the jitter numbers are low.  Who cares if the clocks frequency is not a multiple of any known sample rate....
> 
> Companies that pay attention to details like using the "Right" clock frequency to apply to the "Right" sample rate show they are truly concerned about sound vs. profits, amongst other things.....


 
   
  Yah, but that doesn't answer any of my questions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Many ppl think that upsampling is smokey, as oversampling does the same job...just better. But even the Sabre's use ASRC to overcome the 44.1 "problem" with computer transports. 44.1 sounds nasty on most computer transports IME. OTOH, all resamplers are not born equal and the best one to my ears is Reclock at the highest quality setting by far.


----------



## Dynobot

FYI, if anyone is interested!
   
  Great Package Deal.
   
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/536798/package-deal-audio-gd-digital-interface-ver-b-and-much-more


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





dynobot said:


> There have been lots of comparisons between the DI and other USB/SPDIF converters.  Just for kicks has anyone went back to compare the DI or their favorite converter to your computers spdif out?
> 
> *Its easy to get yourself isolated into a corner of methods or practices in this audio game, and winding up living in a bubble of dogma.*
> 
> ...


 


 Just wanted to say, good post.


----------



## Dynobot

thanks


----------



## Dynobot

Can anyone confirm that the Tenor chip does not reduce the volume on their NON-Audio-GD product....
   
  I have heard that some products with the Tenor USB chip that the volume via USB in is the same as Coax in.....


----------



## ulyses

Is there a comparasion between digital transports? I had to be use my onboard sound card coax out with my dac19 dsp. And it was ok for me. Now I ordered NFB10ES(non usb) and thinking about better digital transport. Audio-gd's digital interface has good reputation here but I need something different. First of all it must be small, cheap and finaly have a compact headphone amp would be great for vacations. So I find that musiland things (monitor 01 and 02). What is the stuiation of them compared hiface and digital interface?


----------



## Dynobot

Digital Transport, like a CDP or some other front end.
   
  Digital Interface, like the DI, Musicland etc.
   
  Comparing transports, computers [each operating system] vs. a cpd I found that the cpd wins every time...even a standard cdp coax out to my Ref 5 or my Ref 7 beats the best I can do with a computer.
   
  Audio-GD is supposed to have a very good CD-Transport with can feed coax or BNC to a Dac.  IMO, the "Duty" of the Digital Interface is to bring [whatever transport] usually a computer up to the level of a stand alone cd-transport.  In this regard it fails.  Again, imo its the duty of any digital interface to bring the digital signal equal to or grater than a stand alone transport.  To date many only accomplish cleaning up the computers sound a bit.


----------



## ulyses

@Dynobot
  My mistake, I wanted to ask comparasion between digital interfaces not transport or-and cdps. It's realy interesting to see a cdp can almost everytime beat digital interface+computer. I now there is a lot of artifical sounds and rf signals producing from a computer but a cdp has some moving parts too. And mass produced cdps not very optimised in this regard I guess. May be I sould try a budget vintage cdp some time. Thanks for the information about transports and digital interfaces


----------



## lag0a

I think it would be best to somehow link the computer -> modified cdp and send a digital signal ( just enough to instruct the cdp to play a music file ) to the modified cdp ( maybe holding a hdd or ssd instead of a cd disc player) but the CPU processing and everything else is done in the modified cdp. I'm guessing the process would be for the computer to send the instruction then the modified cdp's CPU receives it and processes the audio data, holds it in ram then sends it straight to the DAC.


----------



## ninjikiran

I will get to finally try out a higher end transport (Hallide Bridge),  I might try out that whole galvonic isolation on the USB end as well since its cheap and there is no harm in testing.
   
  Though if there is any difference between that is detectable by my ears.  I would say the difference between a CDP and a DI unit is the complexity of circuits.  Theres alot more going on in a computer than there is in a CDP on both hardware and software levels.
   
  I assume most of these CDP's are coded in base assembly language which is the brunt of their software.  Their hardware circuits  compared to having a mainboard, and other various data paths on top of an extra USB cable connected to another PCB.
   
  Also excuse my grammar I am completely out of it this morning.


----------



## Dynobot

Well I tell you what, I have been chasing this Audio-Dragon for a long time...and quite frankly I am tired.  I have probably spent thousands of dollars and countless hours/years trying to perfect the listening experience.  I just want to settle down and enjoy listening to music and buying music again instead of hardware.  The point of diminishing returns can enter the picture pretty fast, for example, if you purchased a decent front end and feed it to a decent Dac with equal associated gear you are probably 90% there...afterwards there are mostly fractional improvements to be gained.  This is where the Dragon steps in, its so easy to tell yourself you need or what this or that because of whatever and enjoy that small fraction of a change as if it is the end all be all.  Fact is more often than not as we chase the Dragon we make things worse [edgy, glare, etc.] and wind up spending more money and time trying to make things right again.  Its like a house of cards, a small adjustment here make it go this way so you adjust there and it leans another way, next thing you know you are spending all your time trying to get it back the way it was in the first place.  This is why as a sanity check I always go back to zero in order to make sure I am really making gains or just going in circles.


----------



## Denys

Quote: 





dynobot said:


> Well I tell you what, I have been chasing this Audio-Dragon for a long time...and quite frankly I am tired.  I have probably spent thousands of dollars and countless hours/years trying to perfect the listening experience.  I just want to settle down and enjoy listening to music and buying music again instead of hardware.  The point of diminishing returns can enter the picture pretty fast, for example, if you purchased a decent front end and feed it to a decent Dac with equal associated gear you are probably 90% there...afterwards there are mostly fractional improvements to be gained.  This is where the Dragon steps in, its so easy to tell yourself you need or what this or that because of whatever and enjoy that small fraction of a change as if it is the end all be all.  Fact is more often than not as we chase the Dragon we make things worse [edgy, glare, etc.] and wind up spending more money and time trying to make things right again.  Its like a house of cards, a small adjustment here make it go this way so you adjust there and it leans another way, next thing you know you are spending all your time trying to get it back the way it was in the first place.  This is why as a sanity check I always go back to zero in order to make sure I am really making gains or just going in circles.


 

 Dynobot,
   
  I think you need an "upgradite break"....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




... and you are right... sit down and enjoy the music (which is our ultimate goal no ???) it will come back to you soon or later !!!
   
  I am almost there myself....the law of diminishing return.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I bought my last gear (DI) last month....and hopefully for a few years...
   
  Denys


----------



## leeperry

denys said:


> I think you need an "upgradite break"....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah, yeah...when the DI2 will be out in 1 year, you'll be like a spoiled kid in a candy store
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  But I agree w/ Dynobot, I'm also in the process of re-weighing my options and prolly choose new paths. All roads lead to Rome, choose your own. The fun is in the journey.


----------



## lag0a

I can see how this could be a fun but frustrating hobby to find that sound signature you're looking for. Whether it be deeper bass, more details, bigger soundstage, or whatever else which may drive someone to madness but at the end of the day it is about enjoying the music you love to listen to even if your audio system may not be what you envision it to be.


----------



## Dynobot

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> All roads lead to Rome, choose your own. The fun is in the journey.


 
   
  Yes All roads do lead to Rome, unfortunately they are TOLL roads...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  Each road is lined with vendors selling drinks, t-shirts, tweaks, etc. etc.  By the time I get to Rome I'll be broke.


----------



## leeperry

dynobot said:


> Yes All roads do lead to Rome, unfortunately they are TOLL roads...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  A grand don't come for free. You sir sound a bit resentful, maybe it's time to go back to a Realtek for 1H in order to hear where you currently stand. It will not hurt a bit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Since I've been a part of Team Ortho, it's only been pure bliss. Toll roads are fine when you own a dream ride.


----------



## Dynobot

I'm lashing out...had a bad day, sorry.


----------



## Dynobot




----------



## haloxt

I enjoy higher tier gear but I am also quite happy with a decent mp3 player and ~$50-100 headphones. Sometimes I daydream about selling all my audio gear and just going with an mp3 player and headphones, but I want to complete my hi-fi system before considering it . It's when I actively look for flaws that I have the itch to upgrade. If all you expect is a fun sound with a big soundstage, you may not have to spend more than $200 in audio gear. If you expect the same level of detail and imaging as in real life though, things can get really expensive, and I wouldn't bother aiming for it unless you are willing to experiment with gear matching and tweaks like cables, and also avoid bad quality records.


----------



## punk_guy182

Alright!
   
  I have received the TXCO modules from Kingwa.
  Those interested in upgrading their DI can pm me.
   
http://audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USBface/Clock.htm
   
  Unfortunately I haven't been able to test the module yet. First, I need to find the proper tool to unscrew the top plate.


----------



## hawkhead

A Philips screwdriver ?
  
  Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> Alright!
> 
> I have received the TXCO modules from Kingwa.
> Those interested in upgrading their DI can pm me.
> ...


----------



## punk_guy182

I tried the Allan key that came with the Phoenix but the head is too big. I'll go at my local hardware store and get the apropriate Allan key to open the box. I'll only be able to do this tomorow though.


----------



## erjifan

I've been following this post for a while. And eventually, I placed an order for a DI without clock upgrade. Now I'm really tempted to know if the upgrade does any better.


----------



## punk_guy182

To those interested, I still have 6 TCXO modules left.
  PM me if you're interested in upgrading your DI.


----------



## Pacha

Dumb question maybe, what difference could be expected with the Tentlabs clock if any? or is it the same clock? I didn't follow the clock affair quite closely.


----------



## hawkhead

Sibilance
   
  YMMV
  
  Quote: 





pacha said:


> Dumb question maybe, what difference could be expected with the Tentlabs clock if any? or is it the same clock? I didn't follow the clock affair quite closely.


----------



## Pacha

Which one would bring sibilance? TCXO or Tentlabs?


----------



## punk_guy182

What is the signification of sibilance?
  I have been using my TCXO module and I like what I,m hearing so far. This is a great worthy upgrade and i think that the SQ should improve as the it burns it more.
  I have been using it for 24 hours now.


----------



## Pacha

Do you use it with bypass mode or 96K upsampling?
  Does it provide any benefits if used in bypass mode?


----------



## punk_guy182

That module only starts working if you set your DI in upsampling mode.
  You have to switch the NO-C DIP switch at ''ON'' by pushing it to the right.
  If you don't set your DI in upsampling mode then you won't hear any differences. This upgrade is to be used with the DI upsampling mode.
  This is an older version of the DSP3 that uses jumpers but the logic is the same. Instead of using jumpers you push at  ''ON'' (Right) or ''OFF'' (Left) DIP switches. Take a look at the schematic:


----------



## erjifan

How many TCXO modules did you use to upgrade your DI? There should be two of them in DI.


----------



## punk_guy182

I only used one why?
  I just followed the instructions that were on the Audio-GD website.
  Should I use another one also? What will I benefit from it?


----------



## erjifan

The other one under the DSP-3 board is to control the USB process. I don't know if the module is soldered or socketed since I haven't received my DI. You can certainly benefit from upgrading that one too (if you can).
  
  Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> I only used one why?
> I just followed the instructions that were on the Audio-GD website.
> Should I use another one also? What will I benefit from it?


----------



## Pacha

Quote:


punk_guy182 said:


> That module only starts working if you set your DI in upsampling mode.
> You have to switch the NO-C DIP switch at ''ON'' by pushing it to the right.
> If you don't set your DI in upsampling mode then you won't hear any differences. This upgrade is to be used with the DI upsampling mode.
> This is an older version of the DSP3 that uses jumpers but the logic is the same. Instead of using jumpers you push at  ''ON'' (Right) or ''OFF'' (Left) DIP switches. Take a look at the schematic:


 


  Did you prefer 96K with stock clock or bypass mode? I prefer bypass mode.
  I you share the same feeling, do you find the TCXO with upsampling to sound better than stock clock with bypass mode?


----------



## punk_guy182

To be honest, I have never experimented with the stock clock. All my DIP switches were set at ''OFF''
  I'm just strating to understand how this thing works.
  I can however say that I prefer the sound of the DI with the TXCO set at upsampling 48Hz over default settings.
  It sounds better but perhaps a little bit artificial.
  How much burning in is required?


----------



## lag0a

I have read some people who have installed a new clock on their sound card have said it gave them a boost in SQ while some say it slowed down the music which I thought it meant it needed burn it so do the sounds coming from the DI become slower after installing and using the new clock?
  If you play a 16bit/44.1khz audio file, I would doubt any other bit and khz besides what the file's bit/khz is would sound better because you're either adding or subtracting from the original audio data, and usually when you alter it you won't be able to make out what the sounds become and usually for the worse in my experience.


----------



## hawkhead

Just to clarify
   
  I have the Tentlabs 1pps clock and used 96K upsampling
   
  Eva Cassidy - Live at Blues Alley was unlistenable due to sibilance
   
  I said YMMV because my DAC upsamples to 192K


----------



## lag0a

I just found an article that gave me a greater insight into spdif and usb jitter, and PSU noise given directly from a PC. Really short and concise 5 pages.
  I like the part where it talks about the PSU noise on page 4 where turning off the OS and then the PC PSU didn't lower the noise floor as much as pulling the power cord from the wall socket. 
   
http://www.audialonline.com/html/articles/spdif_or_usb/1.php
   
  The PC can't beat a CDP because the master clock in the CDP slaves both the transport and the DAC while in the PC it has its own clock, DI has its own clock, and finally the DAC has its own clock according to this article. So using a PC you can have 3 or even more clocks. In my case, PC clock, Sound card clock, SPDIF tranceiver clock, and Metronome reclocker.
   
http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/jitter1_e.html


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





lag0a said:


> I just found an article that gave me a greater insight into spdif and usb jitter, and PSU noise given directly from a PC. Really short and concise 5 pages.
> I like the part where it talks about the PSU noise on page 4 where turning off the OS and then the PC PSU didn't lower the noise floor as much as pulling the power cord from the wall socket.
> 
> http://www.audialonline.com/html/articles/spdif_or_usb/1.php
> ...


 

 The first article you linked doesn't really explain how power supply noise affects the audio quality...
   
  FTA: "According to the feedback I've had from Audial DACs users, in some cases decoupling for noise appeared more important than jitter performance. In other words, *the external USB to S/PDIF converter that was feeding the S/PDIF input of the DAC, soundwise worked better than a direct connection with the USB input of the DAC,* with USB decoding hardware being more or less equal. (As opposed to their USB inputs, S/PDIF inputs of Audial DACs provide galvanic (transformer) decoupling.) This may be further emphasized by known susceptibility of TDA1541A to the high frequency noise."
   
  Well obviously it sounded better with a USB to SPDIF converter... most DACs don't have good USB inputs. This is comparing apples to oranges.
   
  Regarding the second, I don't see how there would be so many significant clocks. The digital interface is asynchronous which should remove any jitter caused by the pc clocks. So then you're left with the digital interface's clock and the dac.


----------



## Baird GoW

OHHH NO!!.. My PC has clocks!? How do I remove them?


----------



## lag0a

Maybe not explicitly but USB as an interface to a PC is still suspectible to jitter and power supply noise. The motherboard's USB output is powered by the PC's PSU and how do you know what power line noise is sent to the DI? The CPU is powered by the PC's PSU  and it is used to process the audio data sent from the motherboard's USB output to the DI. The motherboard is powered by the PC's PSU and it is used to carry the data signal to the motherboard's USB output.
   
  I know you may argue that the DI is galvanically isolated, may use its own PSU, reclocks the signal to SPDIF but since it is carrying a data signal from the PC then it needs to be powered somehow so the data signal can travel to the DI and what has that data signal gone through before it reclocks? Doesn't reclock means it was clocked already in the first place?


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





lag0a said:


> Maybe not explicitly but USB as an interface to a PC is still suspectible to jitter and power supply noise. The motherboard's USB output is powered by the PC's PSU and how do you know what power line noise is sent to the DI? The CPU is powered by the PC's PSU  and it is used to process the audio data sent from the motherboard's USB output to the DI. The motherboard is powered by the PC's PSU and it is used to carry the data signal to the motherboard's USB output.
> 
> I know you may argue that the DI is galvanically isolated, may use its own PSU, reclocks the signal to SPDIF but since it is carrying a data signal from the PC then it needs to be powered somehow so the data signal can travel to the DI and what has that data signal gone through before it reclocks? Doesn't reclock means it was clocked already in the first place?


 
  It might still be susceptible to jitter, but that's the whole point of the digital interface and its galvanic isolation and reclocking and all that jazz. Of course the material has a clock when it comes out of your computer, but when using an asynchronous interface it shouldn't matter if there's any jitter because the digital interface's clock and I assume it uses a PLL will straighten it out.
   
  Now, I'm not saying that using a separate power supply for the digital interface won't matter, but the article you linked does a terrible job of actually quantifying what effect power supply noise may have. I'm getting a power supply for my digital interface to see for myself.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





baird gow said:


> OHHH NO!!.. My PC has clocks!? How do I remove them?


 

  
  You use the spray, 3 times a day for 2 days.


----------



## Baird GoW

I did what you said but they aren't getting any smaller!!... what should I do!?
  Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## lag0a

Try Clock Injection. Desolder all the other clocks that share the same frequency and use only one master clock. Run wires from the master clock to all your other clocks.
   
http://peufeu.free.fr/audio/extremist_dac/spdif.html


----------



## ninjikiran

I was thinking just setting my clock back to the year 1999 so I can get that turn of the century sound again.


----------



## moonboy403

I have tried everything I can with Foobar2000 using wasapi in Windows 7 64bits but I still can't get the DI(bypass mode) to pass a 16 bit 44.1kHz DTS wave file to my receiver.
   
  Here are the things I've tried:
   
  SPDIF level at 100%
  I have tried checking and unchecking all sample rates supported
  I have tried all default format sample rates
  I have enabled exclusive mode
  Selecting the DI as default and not default device
   
  Anyone have any suggestions?


----------



## lag0a

No idea. I use Windows 7 x64 and foobar2000 too. I played a DTS wav file before using my sound card and my DAC was able to recognize it and play it. All you need is the DTS decoder 0.3.0 from foobar2000 components.


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





moonboy403 said:


> I have tried everything I can with Foobar2000 using wasapi in Windows 7 64bits but I still can't get the DI(bypass mode) to pass a 16 bit 44.1kHz DTS wave file to my receiver.
> 
> Here are the things I've tried:
> 
> ...


 
   
  I also tired the DI for DTS pass through in Win7 32/64 bit without any success. I think the DI does not support DTS pass through.


----------



## moonboy403

Quote:


borrego said:


> I also tired the DI for DTS pass through in Win7 32/64 bit without any success. I think the DI does not support DTS pass through.


 
   
  But the signal is a _DTS encoded stereo wav file_ and not a DTS file so the DI should be able to pass it through if it's bitperfect.


----------



## kr0gg

_DTS encoded, _
  you're right. it's not a usual stereo stream, but a DTS (5 channel) encoded stream.
  Digital Interface isn't supposed to understand it and to pass it.
  as i understand, even without upsampling the signal goes through DI's DSP. so i guess the problem lies in it.
  well, not a problem actually.  DI simply doesn't do things it isn't supposed to do.
  yes, it's a pity it also can't wash my dishes. but was it designed for it?


----------



## hawkhead

For DTS and Foobar
   
  have you download the DTS component for Foobar ?
   
  then set the DSP: Convert 5.1 to Stereo


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





moonboy403 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> borrego said:
> ...


 

 When I click the Windows 7 Audio panel "Test" button for DTS audio, I could not get a sound through the DI. So I suppose it does not support DTS passthrough.
   
  I think there must be some media player software / codec which can do the conversion and play audio through the DI. But it is not passthrough.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





moonboy403 said:


> I have tried everything I can with Foobar2000 using wasapi in Windows 7 64bits but I still can't get the DI(bypass mode) to pass a 16 bit 44.1kHz DTS wave file to my receiver.
> 
> Here are the things I've tried:
> 
> ...


 



 Try XP mode.  Maybe it will work.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





			
				borrego said:
			
		

> /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I think there must be some media player software / codec which can do the conversion and play audio through the DI. But it is not passthrough.


 

 It's more common than you think, foobar does and so does just about any video player if watching a movie with DTS. And correct, no passthrough.
  
  Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Are you joking? Running audio through a virtual machine is a horrible idea.


----------



## somestranger26

Well I experienced an interesting problem today... I noticed the volume in VLC kept going to max by itself and same for the windows mixer volume. Also my windows key wouldn't work, nor alt+tab, and a bunch of other key combinations. After doing various things like reinstalling the drivers, making sure my keyboard wasn't broken by trying it with another computer, etc. I decided to unplug the digital interface. Lo and behold my problem subsided.
   
  So, if anyone experiences issues with their keyboard try unplugging the digital interface and plugging it back in after a few seconds! The Digital Interface seems to sometimes get stuck constantly sending "Volume up" commands like your keyboard's media keys do and cause this issue.


----------



## upstateguy

It seems that with new interfaces coming out all the time, like the asynchronous HRT Streamer, and all the difficulties that have been posted about using the DI, that the DI is not yet ready for prime time.  I'm going to look elsewhere.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Unless it is the only way you can get it to work.....  and if it does work with XP, there is also dual boot.... but you knew that.


----------



## somestranger26

There is no reason that it would anyway. The DTS bitstream will never make it back to the host system for playback because of the virtual sound driver it has to go through. The bitstream is either going to be decoded before it reaches the host OS or you will get nothing. Even if you managed to pass DTS through the VM back to the host, Windows would have absolutely no clue what to do with it.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> There is no reason that it would anyway. The DTS bitstream will never make it back to the host system for playback because of the virtual sound driver it has to go through. The bitstream is either going to be decoded before it reaches the host OS or you will get nothing. Even if you managed to pass DTS through the VM back to the host, Windows would have absolutely no clue what to do with it.


 

 I can't speak to the DTS bitstream, but XP mode seems to be able to play music.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yes it can, but we're talking about DTS pass through specifically.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  From within the XP mode, would foobar be able to decode it with the DTS plugin?


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> From within the XP mode, would foobar be able to decode it with the DTS plugin?


 

 I see no reason why it wouldn't. But, there's also no reason it wouldn't decode fine without XP mode. Decoding the DTS == not being passed through. It's pass through of DTS that the digital interface doesn't support.


----------



## borrego

I highly recommend anyone using the DI with Windows 7 WASAPI to try the following registry setting:
   

   
  Remember, it is the "Audio" branch, not the "Pro Audio" branch


----------



## ulyses

I pulled triger for Digital interface version B combine with my nfb-10es order. Is version A has only coaxial-in right? Is it have any advantage over usb on using computer with coax out?


----------



## kr0gg

it has USB plus COAXIAL
  that means it's the same, but also with the feature of upsampling coaxial signal, i guess


----------



## Pacha

Quote: 





borrego said:


> I highly recommend anyone using the DI with Windows 7 WASAPI to try the following registry setting:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, it is the "Audio" branch, not the "Pro Audio" branch


 


  
   http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:rCqIXqMKuaAJ:msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms684247(v%3Dvs.85).aspx+Multimedia%5CSystemProfile%5CTasks%5CAudio&cd=19&hl=fr&ct=clnk&gl=fr&source=www.google.fr
   
  Scheduling category set to High => priority is always set at  2, so why would you set 7 on this one while High on the other?


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





pacha said:


> http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:rCqIXqMKuaAJ:msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms684247(v%3Dvs.85).aspx+Multimedia%5CSystemProfile%5CTasks%5CAudio&cd=19&hl=fr&ct=clnk&gl=fr&source=www.google.fr
> 
> Scheduling category set to High => priority is always set at  2, so why would you set 7 on this one while High on the other?


 
   
  Then what do you think 3 to 8 are for? Setting it to 7 is to make it higher relatively to the other "Tasks" like "Games" & "Capure"
   
  Setting the "Background Only" to "False" is the most important change.
   
  Just try the settings yourself and see if you would find a difference.


----------



## Pacha

I don't catch what impact could Background only could have when reading the msdn description. Could you detail this a bit if you understood it better than me?
   
  I understand that the goal is to allow more priority to the audio thread, but I just still don't catch what "High" on Scheduling category would do, and why it must implies setting priority to 2 (low) as they mention, as this brings "High" and "Low" in the same time.


----------



## ninjikiran

question is would exclusive mode be considered a pro audio stream.


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





ninjikiran said:


> question is would exclusive mode be considered a pro audio stream.


 

 Definitely "No" in Windows Vista WASAPI.... Most likely also "No" in Windows 7... if you play music longer than 10ms...
   
  See here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd370844%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
   
_"...WASAPI uses MMCSS to increase the thread priority. In Windows Vista, if a system thread manages data transport for an exclusive-mode audio playback stream with a PCM format and a device period of less than 10 milliseconds, WASAPI assigns the MMCSS task name "Pro Audio" to the thread. If the device period of the stream is greater than or equal to 10 milliseconds, WASAPI assigns the MMCSS task name "Audio" to the thread..."_
   
  That's why you have to change the setting in the "Audo" registry branch


----------



## ninjikiran

got it
  Quote: 





borrego said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





pacha said:


> I don't catch what impact could Background only could have when reading the msdn description. Could you detail this a bit if you understood it better than me?
> 
> I understand that the goal is to allow more priority to the audio thread, but I just still don't catch what "High" on Scheduling category would do, and why it must implies setting priority to 2 (low) as they mention, as this brings "High" and "Low" in the same time.


 


  I don't have any better understanding from that MS literature. The registry setting I recommend is base on the experiment I did, not from MS developer recommendation.
   
  The "priority" is meant for the MMCSS. You can start with my setting and experiment with other settings.


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> To those interested, I still have 6 TCXO modules left.
> PM me if you're interested in upgrading your DI.


 

 Received mine today- thanks! Things sound great.


----------



## kr0gg

how would you rate the upgrade TCXO to the default one?
  mine is on the way.
  a loooong way from Canada to Moldova


----------



## udailey

[size=medium]I have both versions of DI. I hear no difference between the two when using USB only input. 
  Somebody asked about this a few pages back.
   
  Also, just a side note and a bit off topic: I have RE5 and RE7. Got RE5 in the fall and RE7 a few weeks ago. Was not initially impressed with RE7 as it was only marginally better than RE5. I have a pre that has a remote and can switch inputs back and forth. I put USB signal into my DI and then used both COAX outs.. one to RE5 and one to RE7. For a few weeks I have been switching back and forth and the difference in quality is growing each time I sit down to listen. Before, when I first got it, I would never have bought it knowing the small increase in quality for the large increase in price. Now, I prefer it by quite a bit to the RE5. I still think RE5 is a wonderful DAC but the RE7 is worth the money now and I am really pleased with my purchase. 
 Right now I am running Toslink from CDP to DEQ2496 and Toslink out of the DEQ to the RE7. This way I can digitally manipulate the EQ and this is a lot of fun to mess with. I prefer COAX to Toslink but this is the only choise other than AES/DBU with the DEQ, unfortunately. That said though, things sound great. Audio-GD has a fan boy for sure.
  Uriah​[/size]


----------



## ulyses

@udailey
   
  I actualy try to ask coax input vs usb input in version A. My computer has coax out but I ordered version B. So is there any advantage using coax input (even from mainboard's sound card) compared to direct usb input? These are confusing my mind. There is a little price difference in both version, I know it. But my purse is already over discharged and every penny important now.


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> how would you rate the upgrade TCXO to the default one?
> mine is on the way.
> a loooong way from Canada to Moldova


 

 Too hard to say really. Can't A-B. My impression is that things are no worse and possibly better. Sorry can't provide more. If Kingwa feels it's better, that's all I need.
  I am at a stage where I can't imagine music sounding much better with Ref-8 and Phoenix.


----------



## punk_guy182

I have used the TCXO upgrade for the DI and I like what I'm hearing so far.
  It requires some burning in before making a final judgement on the upgrade. I hear more depth and energy in the sound.
  The sound is clearer and on some high quality recordings I get an image of the sound that was absent before. The results are quite impressive on some very good recordings which have many effects.
   
  I have 4 more TCXO clock modules. Those interested in getting one can PM me.
   
  BTW, I'm getting next week the C1-SE Power Amp. Woohoo!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  That package weighs 92lbs. http://audio-gd.com/Pro/amp/C1SE/C1SECH.htm


----------



## udailey

I just bought a bunch of computer parts. Will build a server today. Has both Toslink and Coax outputs on motherboard. So I can try both plus USB. Will update you when I have an idea how I like the sound of each.
  Uriah


----------



## kr0gg

udailey, that would be nice.
  i've changed my order to NFB11ES and am currently deciding which version of DI to choose


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *punk_guy182* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> BTW, I'm getting next week the C1-SE Power Amp. Woohoo!
> 
> ...


 


  Wow. Great choice on power amp. The C1-SE will be my next target once I move to a new place which can accomodate its huge size. Are you getting it with the MJL4281/4302 power transistor upgrade?
   
  The next logical move will be "regenerate" power supply for all your source gear, head phone amp and the driver section of your C1SE.


----------



## punk_guy182

Yep!  It's a big peice of gear. I have never heard of this upgrade. Does Audio-GD offer it? Have you tried?
  I'll eventualy get some power regenerator. I'm just waiting for Kingwa to put one out. Do you have one to reccomend that's not too expensive?


----------



## Trapper32

Received my TCXO module from punk-guy182 today.  Wow... I know it needs burning in but I wasn't prepared for the noticeable improvement I'm hearing on good recordings.  I can definitely echo the impressions below even in the first hour of use.  At this stage of the game, with diminishing returns kicking in, its nice to hear an improvement this noticeable for $25. Thanks for all your efforts Mattieu, much appreciated here.  
  
  Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> I have used the TCXO upgrade for the DI and I like what I'm hearing so far.
> It requires some burning in before making a final judgement on the upgrade. I hear more depth and energy in the sound.
> The sound is clearer and on some high quality recordings I get an image of the sound that was absent before. The results are quite impressive on some very good recordings which have many effects.
> 
> ...


----------



## haloxt

Got my clock upgrade. Thanks punk guy!
   
  IMPORTANT. You can plug the four pins into the outer sockets, you DO NOT have to plug the four pins into the same location that the old clock pins were at. But you still HAVE TO put it in the correct direction to avoid killing the clock.


----------



## somestranger26

I've ordered a TCXO from punk guy, can't wait to get it!
  
  Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> Yep!  It's a big peice of gear. I have never heard of this upgrade. Does Audio-GD offer it? Have you tried?
> I'll eventualy get some power regenerator. I'm just waiting for Kingwa to put one out. Do you have one to reccomend that's not too expensive?


 


  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/436265/audio-gd-dynamo-d350-power-regenerator


----------



## borrego

punk_guy182 said:


> I have used the TCXO upgrade for the DI and I like what I'm hearing so far.
> It requires some burning in before making a final judgement on the upgrade. I hear more depth and energy in the sound.
> The sound is clearer and on some high quality recordings I get an image of the sound that was absent before. The results are quite impressive on some very good recordings which have many effects.
> 
> ...




Audio-gd has switched to MJL4281/4302 on the cheaper C500/C10se. The C1se is suppose to be higher grade so I think it should have the upgrade as well.


----------



## tim3320070

Yeah, I can't put my finger on it but something sounds better- more immediate vocals, things sounds a bit closer, does that sound right?
  The V5 DSP was really something to me also- very apparent improvement.


----------



## udailey

Totally unfair!! King-Wa now has RE7.1 and says best DAC he has ever built!
   
  Well, now to the reason I logged on:
  I have my music server built and running. Was a bit surprised to hear it sounding better than my laptop but its a whole different system.
  I am trying all the digital outputs I can. Toslink/COAX/USB. The Toslink goes into my DEQ2496 then into the RE7 so it really doesnt come into play here since we are about the DI, but either way the DI sounds better than Toslink through the DEQ no matter what EQ I put on the DEQ and even if I run it in BYPASS mode.
  So, the DI. I have Coax from the computer and USB from the computer going to the same DI. My server is really rolling with my experimentation. I remove or replace the USB or COAX input and it changes on the fly for me with only a slight interruption. 
  Hands down the USB sounds better. The COAX is incredible for sure but the USB is way better. Here's how: A bit better in the highs. Like there was a stringed instrument playing and it sounded very detailed and plucky like I would want and (this was with COAX) not only did I have no complaints but it sounded fantastic. When I replay the same song with USB I realized that the instrument was being hammered, not plucked. So, while this is the only place so far that I can tell an actual sound quality improvement it is still pretty cool for me to get even more resolution in the sound.
  Where the USB is far better than the COAX is in the soundstage. This goes beyond subjective. Its flat out obvious. With USB  that hammered dulcimer is about 1.5 feet to the inside of the left speaker and it is razor sharp as to where it is placed. The voice is wonderful and huge but not coming from a huge and smeared area. Small, concise, singular. The drums... man the drums are so good. The drums you can close your eyes and see where the guy is sitting. When he plays different drums you can hear the notes/beats coming from different places. From where the drums actually are. This is not the situation where the drum kit appears to engulf the entire soundstage and drums are heard from all the way left to all the way right. This is where the drums, from my seated position, take up about 3 feet of the soundstage just a bit left of the singer and they stay there. They dont waiver around and different drums are placed in their own small area, where they should be. Hope I am making this as clear as it ends up sounding.
  With the COAX the sound is great but all instruments come towards the center. Still a little separated but all within a 5-7 foot region centered.They overlap each other and the worst is that they are smeared. That dulcimer is smeared across a few feet and the voice is smeared across a few feet as well. Probably wound not have seriously bothered me but with the ability to compare on the fly it is obvious to me that the USB DI is the way to go.
  Uriah


----------



## ulyses

@udailey
   
  That was what I am currious about. I ordered version B and tought it may be something I miss over usb input. Thanks for comparasion between usb and coax inputs.


----------



## kr0gg

@udailey
  do you have the Audio-gd PSU for DI?


----------



## haloxt

I think I have to second Tim's opinion that the clock upgrade gives more immediacy, like the singers aren't trying to play hide and seek behind other instruments. I have always thought my dac9mk3 had a lingering decay and a little hazy high freq precision to it, so I upgraded from pmd-100 to dsp-1 module. I still noticed a little bit of fuzziness even though it did become more neutral, and suspected it was due to the psu of the dac9mk3 being different from the psu in the ref 1. But upsampling to 96khz with the new clock noticeably improves high freq presence, speed, maybe timbre, and adds smoothness and continuity. Violins really dance, many instruments sound fuller and more continuous, the energy in music seems captured, but I get the impression that it might be OVERALL a little more colored even though I think the high freqs are certainly more accurate and clear now.
   
  This is with only 15 hours of burn in, but from what I think I hear, you may want to hold on purchasing a DI with the current clock, I think there's a good chance audio-gd will be giving the new clock the thumbs up.
   
  One more strange observation , the first hour or two of use I couldn't help shake the feeling that I was getting a similar positioning as from a single-box mp3 player or something with transport and dac in the same box connected with I2S, namely immediacy of notes and firm instrument positioning. I have no idea what conclusion I should draw from this observation , right now I'm leaning to the theory that spdif needs a lot of touching up to compare to I2S, but I don't know enough to be sure.


----------



## erjifan

I just want to say "EMS is FAST!" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (sorry, Edwin)  My DI was shipped on Feb. 11 from China and reveived today in NY. To someone in US who wants to buy DI from Audio gd, you can use EMS to save some shipping cost.


----------



## udailey

Good point. I do have the Audio-GD PSU and I used it in this comparison. 
  
  Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> @udailey
> do you have the Audio-gd PSU for DI?


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *udailey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> <Snip>
> 
> ...


 
   
  More likely there is a slight volume difference between the three implementations. 
   
  USG


----------



## udailey

So now volume and imaging are the same? Did you read my post? It wasnt about perceived sound quality as much as it was about imaging and instrument placement. 
  Calibrated ECM8000 at listening position, test tone, DEQ2496 to tell me the dB level. Got it covered. However its hardly relevant since it is not the volume that seemed to matter here, it was the imaging/placement/precision of placement that mattered.
  Uriah
   
  https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/U46oQGuzl_ZBnrRMS98ndLp-AhcJSuUnH3KCk0w1PKc?feat=directlink
  https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/e73UQHzf9rjvR8eaSSNQO7p-AhcJSuUnH3KCk0w1PKc?feat=directlink


----------



## haloxt

Anyone used the digital interface psu with another device? I'm thinking about getting an mp3 player with spdif dock and using the external psu to power the dock.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





udailey said:


> So now volume and imaging are the same? *Did you read my post?* It wasnt about perceived sound quality as much as it was about imaging and instrument placement.
> Calibrated ECM8000 at listening position, test tone, DEQ2496 to tell me the dB level. Got it covered. However its hardly relevant since it is not the volume that seemed to matter here, it was the imaging/placement/precision of placement that mattered.
> Uriah
> 
> ...


 

 Don't get your panties in a bunch Uriah.  Volume level plays a very large role in instrument placement and imaging.  Even a slight increase in volume will influence the  sound stage simply because you will be able to hear more of what is there and the proximity cues of where it's coming from.  The better you hear the proximity cues, the better you can identify the placement.
   
  It's the same old adage, "Louder Sounds Better".
   
  USG


----------



## hello im sean

Hey head-fi I was considering getting this, but most of the music I listen to I can only find in 16-bit 44.1 khz so will the DI make an audible difference in these files? Or does the better sound only come out in higher res files? Thanks


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





hello im sean said:


> Hey head-fi I was considering getting this, but most of the music I listen to I can only find in 16-bit 44.1 khz so will the DI make an audible difference in these files? Or does the better sound only come out in higher res files? Thanks


 


  It will improve everything except 88.2khz which it cannot play.


----------



## tim3320070

It plays 88.2, it just converts it. You can't hear any real difference anyway. 16/44.1 is 98% (maybe 100%) as good as 24/96 IMO. It's about how well the artist is recorded to begin with.


----------



## hello im sean

ahh so a worthy investment im assuming


----------



## hawkhead

It certainly does not for me in Foobar
  
  Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> It plays 88.2, it just converts it. You can't hear any real difference anyway.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> It plays 88.2, it just converts it. You can't hear any real difference anyway. 16/44.1 is 98% (maybe 100%) as good as 24/96 IMO. It's about how well the artist is recorded to begin with.


 

 I do not believe the digital interface can even convert the 88.2khz, I think your computer is resampling it for output.Have you tried with bitperfect output like WASAPI?


----------



## Caphead78

The DI does nut work with 88.2 since it uses the Tenor USB chip just like my NFB-3


----------



## tim3320070

I am listening to a file in 88.2 thru my DI right now. Not sure why you can't. I am using MediaMonkey with Wave output and it states 88.2 output.
  Edit: I think know- I have the DI Windows device settings set to 24/96 and must be converting there. Sounds great like everything else.


----------



## ninjikiran

Its possible, the bridge in Win7 shows 24/44.1, 24/48, and 24/96.  To test I force resampled with SoX in foobar  to 88.2khz and it accepted it.


----------



## Caphead78

caphead78 said:


> The DI doesn't work with 88.2 since it uses the Tenor USB chip just like my NFB-3





EDIT: Nevermind


----------



## Patu

Finally ordered this one with a dedicated PSU. I currently own M2Tech HiFace (one of the early versions) and I have been more than happy with it. We'll see if DI outperforms it.


----------



## haloxt

Did you go for the clock upgrade?


----------



## tim3320070

Yes, ask for the new clock.


----------



## Patu

What's that? I rarely follow this forum nowadays so I have no clue about it.


----------



## Patu

tim3320070 said:


> Yes, ask for the new clock.




Okay I e-mailed Edwin about it. I hope my DI wasn't sent out yet.


----------



## V3ng3anc3

Quote: 





patu said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  It probably wasn't unless they decided to push my original order back 2 days for no reason after I added the DI. :[


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> I am listening to a file in 88.2 thru my DI right now. Not sure why you can't. I am using MediaMonkey with Wave output and it states 88.2 output.
> Edit: I think know- I have the DI Windows device settings set to 24/96 and must be converting there. Sounds great like everything else.


 


  Wave out is *not bitperfect;  try WASAPI.* Your edit is correct though personally I can tell a difference with resampled material. Windows will not resample bitperfect audio streams so an 88.2 file with WASAPI should not work.
   

  
  Quote: 





			
				tim3320070 said:
			
		

> /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Yes, ask for the new clock.


 


 I thought they were out of stock because they just ordered a few to get customer feedback?


----------



## V3ng3anc3

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> I thought they were out of stock because they just ordered a few to get customer feedback?


 

 I don't know about that, but I was able to order it with the new clock last monday.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





patu said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  Don't worry they have not sent out yet. I preordered mine back in Jan with the clock upgrade and they have yet to send me mine on the reason that they have ran out of the txco clock and is unable to fulfill my order. Kinda pissed off because I have been made to wait this long and Edwin told me that they are unable to give me an estimate date whereby they will be ready to ship out my DI.


----------



## sayh

The new TCXO clock should be in within the next 2 weeks according to them.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





sayh said:


> The new TCXO clock should be in within the next 2 weeks according to them.


 


  Haha that was what they told me two weeks ago!


----------



## haloxt

This issue is because someone asked audio-gd to let him distribute 20 clocks in the USA, and I guess that's all audio-gd had on hand. If it makes you feel better, getting a new DI with the new clock will mean you have the clock soldered on, which theoretically is better than using a socket like the rest of us .


----------



## upstateguy

Is the TCXO clock only used for upsampling?


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> Is the TCXO clock only used for upsampling?


 

 Yes. Try searching next time.


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Wave out is *not bitperfect;  try WASAPI.* Your edit is correct though personally I can tell a difference with resampled material. Windows will not resample bitperfect audio streams so an 88.2 file with WASAPI should not work.


 
  I can't get it to work (or I don't know how) out of MediaMonkey and Vista 32bit (new computer with Win 7 coming). Though I hear no real difference between iTunes, MM or my CD player thru same system, in any configuration. I heard the difference with the V5 DSP and possibly the new clock but never software.


----------



## hawkhead

http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=54426
  
  Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> I can't get it to work (or I don't know how) out of MediaMonkey and Vista 32bit (new computer with Win 7 coming). Though I hear no real difference between iTunes, MM or my CD player thru same system, in any configuration. I heard the difference with the V5 DSP and possibly the new clock but never software.


----------



## V3ng3anc3

Looks like the upgraded clocks are back...
   

    20th Feb.  The TCXO 24.576MHz for DI in stock


----------



## sayh

Quote: 





v3ng3anc3 said:


> Looks like the upgraded clocks are back...
> 
> 
> 20th Feb.  The TCXO 24.576MHz for DI in stock


 

 There you go, all happy now and anticipating gears arrival.


----------



## haloxt

Just wanted to make sure, the barrel power jack on the silver plated copper cable that comes with the audio-gd external power supply fits into 5v power inputs of typical devices? I am going to buy one with the voltage lowered to 5V for use with my archos 5's dvr station for spdif output.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> Just wanted to make sure, the barrel power jack on the silver plated copper cable that comes with the audio-gd external power supply fits into 5v power inputs of typical devices? I am going to buy one with the voltage lowered to 5V for use with my archos 5's dvr station for spdif output.


 

 Barrel connectors are_ usually_ voltage specific, the only way to be sure would be to ask Kingwa.


----------



## Denys

Quote: 





v3ng3anc3 said:


> Looks like the upgraded clocks are back...
> 
> 
> 20th Feb.  The TCXO 24.576MHz for DI in stock


 

 Must be....my DI with the upgraded clock left China last Tuesday...
   
  Denys


----------



## Patu

Yes I managed to get the upgrade clock in my unit. About the shipping:
   
  "Because your order is at the 17th Feb list,so that we need to shipping to you around the end of Feb"


----------



## JiggaD369

Has anyone been able to compare it to this?
   
http://cgi.ebay.com/Styleaudio-DDC-Digital-Digital-Convertor-CARAT-T2-/250718106387?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a5ff6b313#ht_4580wt_909


----------



## somestranger26

I got my clock upgrade today and it's had a few hours to burn in thus far, I notice a nice improvement in midrange definition and low level detail. I liked the upsampling before but it sounded a little bit 'digital' and is now more natural. With the clock upgrade I don't see a reason not to upsample, the effect is only positive imo. This benefit could have to do with the ESS9018 in the NFB-10 upsampling to 864kHz regardless of input frequency. Since 864 is a multiple of 96, it probably does a better job of upsampling it than 44.1 which is not divisible into 864.
  Quote: 





jiggad369 said:


> Has anyone been able to compare it to this?
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Styleaudio-DDC-Digital-Digital-Convertor-CARAT-T2-/250718106387?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a5ff6b313#ht_4580wt_909


 

  
  No, nobody has tried this random spdif converter off of ebay, let alone heard about it. Also, it's still more expensive than a fully upgraded mode B ($140+75+23=$238 < $290).


----------



## Denys

I also received my Digital Interface with the upgraded clock today. Unfortunately, it doesn't work..... The sound not only is horrible, but there's interference as soon as it's plugged with the coax cable. I do not have that problem with the M2Tech that I had to put back on the system
   
  I use foobar and I changed the output section to reflect the DI......even when Foobar is closed, as soon as I plugged the coax, I only hear distorsion. The problem cannot come from the cable as it's perfectly fine with the M2Tech...
   
  Any idea before I contact Audio-GD ?
   
  Denys


----------



## somestranger26

Did you put the clock in the right way (dot should be on the RIGHT side if youre looking at it from front)? If you put it in the opposite direction the crystal oscillator will shatter.
   

  Quote: 





denys said:


> I also received my Digital Interface with the upgraded clock today. Unfortunately, it doesn't work..... The sound not only is horrible, but there's interference as soon as it's plugged with the coax cable. I do not have that problem with the M2Tech that I had to put back on the system
> 
> I use foobar and I changed the output section to reflect the DI......even when Foobar is closed, as soon as I plugged the coax, I only hear distorsion. The problem cannot come from the cable as it's perfectly fine with the M2Tech...
> 
> ...


----------



## Denys

It was installed by Audio-GD...It's the first time I use it.. I just plugged the coax cable in and the distorsion started...
   
  I also tried another coax cable with the same result.
   
  Denys
  
  Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Did you put the clock in the right way (dot should be on the RIGHT side if youre looking at it from front)? If you put it in the opposite direction the crystal oscillator will shatter.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote:


denys said:


> *It was installed by Audio-GD*...It's the first time I use it.. I just plugged the coax cable in and the distorsion started...
> 
> Denys


 

 Contact Kingwa (king - wa@hotmail.com without the spaces).


----------



## uelover

Ok this sounds bad. I ordered mine with the soldered on upgraded clock too and I will certainly be mad if they deliver to me a unit that is DOA having made me waited for so long.
   
  Denys did they soldered it the wrong way?


----------



## Denys

Quote: 





uelover said:


> Ok this sounds bad. I ordered mine with the soldered on upgraded clock too and I will certainly be mad if they deliver to me a unit that is DOA having made me waited for so long.
> 
> Denys did they soldered it the wrong way?


 

 I do not know yet.... I've tried different USB port and different coax cable. I only hear "scratches" and distorsion, and when I put back my M2Tech, everything is perfect. I contacted Kingwa, he asked me to verify a couple of things but the results are the same. He came back with something else that I will verify tonight although I have my doubts.
   
  To make sure, I will also try the DI in my living room with another DAC and another coax cable and also another computer even though I do not need it there, but just to make sure I've tried any possibility....Then I'll see...
   
  I'd like to avoid shipping it back to China because you encounter shipping fees plus duties plus the lost time going to the company to ship it back etc....
   
  I just hope it won't take too long before it's resolved...
   
  Denys


----------



## tim3320070

Take a detailed picture of the inside. Something is connected wrong and someone here or Kingwa might be able to see it.


----------



## Denys

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> Take a detailed picture of the inside. Something is connected wrong and someone here or Kingwa might be able to see it.


 

 Can I open the box whithout altering the warranty ? cause I think it's a very good idea.... I could do that tonight...
   
  Denys


----------



## somestranger26

Of course... they sell the clock as a separate upgrade for self-install. You can open any audio-gd gear without voiding warranty.


----------



## Pacha

Of course you can, it's not a HP laptop lol.


----------



## Denys

Update: this is what I wrote to Kingwa
   
  Along with my testing, I found the following:
  I use the DI with a laptop as my musical server. When I remove the power supply from the laptop, everything works fine.
   
  Do you think that if I buy the power supply for the DI the distorsion could be avoided or it has nothing to do ??
   
  It seems that the DI itself works fine but enters in conflict with the power supply.
   
  Anyone here had that problem ?
   
  Denys


----------



## sayh

Quote: 





denys said:


> Update: this is what I wrote to Kingwa
> 
> Along with my testing, I found the following:
> I use the DI with a laptop as my musical server. When I remove the power supply from the laptop, everything works fine.
> ...


 

 Borrow from someone another rated PSU for your laptop and test again.
  It could be that the laptop PSU is inducing noise into the USB power as well as inducing noise into the whole laptop.


----------



## Denys

Just to let everyone know.....
   
  The DI works fine..... I am just testing it now in my living room and it's perfect. Obviously, the problem comes from the laptop....
   
  I'll try a couple of things here, but beside sayh's solution (which I will try, thank you), I might simply listen to music without the power supply as the battery is good for 6 hrs.....but it's not the best solution.
   
  I also might keep the use of the M2Tech in my bedroom as there's no conflict and keep the DI in my living room...
   
  I don't know yet...
   
  Denys
   
  P.S...I told Kingwa that the unit is fine...
   
  20 minutes later...
   
  Yep the problem really comes from the cheap laptop.....the DI stays in the living room and the M2Tech in the bedroom...... Even thinking of putting the REF5 in the living room and the MOTU in the bedroom.... I'll see


----------



## udailey

Same issue with my laptop supply. Really screwed up the sound until I unplug the supply and run on battery.
  Built a music server with regular computer supply and no troubles plus great sound.
  Uriah


----------



## Denys

Quote: 





udailey said:


> Same issue with my laptop supply. Really screwed up the sound until I unplug the supply and run on battery.
> Built a music server with regular computer supply and no troubles plus great sound.
> Uriah


 
  Hi Uriah,
   
  Do you mean you kept the laptop but added a computer power supply ?
   
  Denys


----------



## ninjikiran

he more than likely means running on the power brick which also acts as a battery charger.


----------



## Alexdad54

It must vary from laptop tp laptop as I'm using my DI with an Asus netbook running on AC only out to a Havana DAC and it works beautifully. I removed the battery to preserve it as recommended by the manufacturer.


----------



## lag0a

Does anyone know if the DI is galvanically isolated three times? From the computer's USB output to DI's INPUT then from the USB data to SPDIF data + clock conversion and finally from DI's SPDIF output to DAC's SPDIF input.


----------



## udailey

I think its just that my laptop brick is lousy. What I meant was that when listening via laptop I unplug it so it runs on its own battery which does not give me much time to listen.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





udailey said:


> I think its just that my laptop brick is lousy. What I meant was that when listening via laptop I unplug it so it runs on its own battery which does not give me much time to listen.


 


  Can you remove the battery pack from the laptop and run it off AC that way ? It may disengage the charging feature of the brick and get rid of the noise at the same time. I have no idea if that will work or not but it's worth a shot.
   
  Peete.


----------



## ninjikiran

If that doesn't work, see if one of the Pico PSU's fit the power requirements of your laptop.  They are cheap HQ what I would consider power bricks.  That or get a laptop battery charging dock and buy an extra battery. 
   
  Or put together a proper desktop build without those problems  Granted it s not portable.


----------



## attenuated 3db

pricklely peete said:


> Can you remove the battery pack from the laptop and run it off AC that way ? It may disengage the charging feature of the brick and get rid of the noise at the same time. I have no idea if that will work or not but it's worth a shot.
> 
> Peete.




Yes, it does work, and works very well. Here is the computer I am typing this post on while it is also this moment serving as my musical source-transport with the entry-level equipment in my profile:

http://www.docs.sony.com/release/specs/VPCF115FMB_mksp.pdf

It is commonly called a "desktop replacement" class machine, and I have a more portable HP notebook and Asus netbook, so I operate this thing without the battery being in it all the time. And it has an 80-gb. Intel SSD I installed myself, with all of my music and other types of data on a 2-tb. external drive with its own enclosure, fan and wall-wart power supply, connected via the eSata port. I also have an express card that gives me two USB 3.0 ports and a Western Digital Passport Essential 1-tb. drive that fits in my pocket which actually has faster data transfer rate than the eSata, even though it spins at 5400 rpm instead of 7200, and draws its power off the USB bus. 

I am a computer geek and born-again audiophile, so I think a lot about power supplies and isolating components from each other as much as possible. If I could fit my music collection on the SSD I would, but I have a collection of favorite albums on 32-gb SDHC cards that I use sometimes when I don't want to deal with spinning platters of any kind. Reading large flac files off a hard drive block-by-block seems counter-intuitive to me to producing a continuous "stream" of data out of my USB port to the DAC, and also potentially could introduce jitter. I turn my CCFL-backlit screen off (easy switch on the Sony keyboard for doing so so) when I am not using the computer for anything other than listening, once again to avoid RFI or EMI that might sneak in and degrade audio performance. The insides of a laptop are an awful environment compared to a well-designed music server computer in a nice case with great care given to shielding and cable routing, but at least my computer's power supply is completely physically isolated from the computer itself, all the time. 

Just like some of the old Mark Levinson pre-amps I used to sell in the pre-digital-audio early 1980s.


----------



## borrego

I get the most stable and best quality audio out of WIndows 7 and DI through the following:
   
  1. Rip CD/DVD to an .ISO image file
  2. Use PowerISO (http://www.poweriso.com/) to mount the .ISO image as a virtual CD/DVD drive
  3. Tweak the Windows 7 registry: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/500369/audio-gd-digital-interface/1425#post_7268395
  4. Use Foobar/WASAPI to play the files from the virtual drive
   
  The above would give the most stable and transparent sound from Windows 7, even if the PC is busy with other task. The PowerISO does wonders to files caching.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





attenuated 3db said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Sounds to me like you have all the necessary bases covered. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Hopefully the battery pack removal workaround gives him the desired result (for *udaily) *.
   
  How fast is your boot up now with the SSD compared to a conventional laptop drive ? Are there any drawbacks to using one as O/S primary partition ? I seem to remember some articles talking about page file allocation (dynamically controlled vs a defined specific size) being a slight issue for the SSD type drives. I'm not certain of that assumption being correct...maybe you could shed some light on any drawbacks (if there are any) using the new SSD drives.
   
  Peete.


----------



## attenuated 3db

pricklely peete said:


> Sounds to me like you have all the necessary bases covered.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I haven't timed my Win7 boot-up with the 80-gb Intel X25 SSD on the Core i7 Sony, but compared to even a Seagate Momentus XT hybrid (a 500-gb. 2.5-inch spinning platter HDD with 4-gb. of SSD buffer and a 32-mb cache that cuts down on platter rotation and motor-driven read-write operations considerably and will become the new factory standard technology for notebooks, IMHO, although it will come from manufacturers other than just Seagate), it comes up to being fully ready for use very, very fast. 

I guess I could put the boot-time stopwatch to it before I type this post, but I am doing so on my HP 2-ghz. Core-2-Duo with a 40-gb. version of the same Intel X25 SSD technology (this thing has a 32-gb SDHC card in it for data files like music _all_ the time and I rotate two high-capacity battery packs in it and don't plug it into the AC except for recharging them) and it has Ubuntu Linux 10.10 installed on it. Boot-wise, it is almost literally instant-on/instant-off, one the principal software design goals of Mark Shuttleworth, who wants everyday people to see how Linux (at least his flavor of it) is demonstrably superior to Bill Gates' and Steve Ballmer's OS in a way that is really easy for them to see. 

As for page file, etc., Intel has a free "SSD toolbox" program for the X25 series (for Windows only, not Linux or OS/X), that optimizes all of those things. You don't defrag an SSD, but once a week it performs the "trim" function built into Win7 that releases NAND memory cells that have become unused by the filesystem in its current state so that fresh data can be written to them.

As far as my research has lead me, there are *no *drawbacks to SSDs vs. rotational HDDs other than cost-per-storage-byte, but expect that ratio to improve as economies of scale in manufacturing and newer NAND memory designs bring their costs down. And they are perfect for use as your OS boot drive even if you have all your applications and data on a conventional HDD, perhaps in a separate and separately powered enclousre, like my 2-tb. eSata (which is really an inexpensive Fujitsu 3.5-inch desktop drive in an inexpensive Rosewill enclosure from Newegg, but it works great). You could put a full Win7 install with MS Office, you web browser and several other large applications on even this 40-mb. SSD (and Intel is obviously not the only vendor, just my favorite) and have not just fast boots but incredibly fast performance as even large Photoshop-like programs open and close almost instantly.

In all my days of personal computers, going back to the Apple IIe, the Osborne CP/M and then all of the "WinTel" machines since the first IBM PC I bought in 1983, SSDs have made the single biggest difference to me in terms of perceived speed of performance, much more than any CPU upgrade. And with no motors, I believe they simply _have_ to be better for using a computer as a music server-transport.


----------



## ninjikiran

SSD performance is phenomenal, running my OS on a 80gb SSD and have my music on a 160gb SSD both Vertex2..
   
  Since this is an audio forum, and this is a USB transport one of the best features of an SSD with low buffer size in programs such as foobar is absolutely no dropout.  Everything seems to open on demand and instantly~ especially startup apps.
   
  If you plan on running an SSD make sure to set SATA mode to AHCI, I didn't do this initially(SSD Newb) and without it in that mode TRIM support is not enabled. Setting up AHCI with a system already installed requires a small registry tweak.


----------



## uelover

Not so sure about windows but I know several Mac Audio Players have the feature of 'Memory Cache' (Queue the audio data in the system memory), eliminating the need for a good and quiet harddrive or even SSD.
   
  Might be more cost-effective.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks for the detailed info gents 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.....that pretty much covered any other questions I night have had ....I'm due for a system upgrade in the near future, I'll definitely use SSDs in that build.
   
  I use the cache x amount in mem feature with J River media centre 15 *uelover*, it works quite well. My current comp is getting a little long in the tooth but it has a Asus Max Formula mobo, a GO stepping P4 Q6600 quad core with 4GB Mushkin PC8500 DDR II (O/C cpu to 3.6 Ghz on air, FSB dual channel 970 mhz - 8x cpu multiplyer) Ati Radeon HD3870 viddy card, Auzentech Prelude PCI SC, running 64 bit Win 7 Ultimate. Still plays the latest games (DX10.X anyway) at pretty good detail and resolution without hiccups.
   
  Peete.


----------



## lag0a

Has anyone tried using SSD + Superspeed RamDisk Plus + Music Player playing from memory?


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





borrego said:


> I get the most stable and best quality audio out of WIndows 7 and DI through the following:
> 
> 1. Rip CD/DVD to an .ISO image file
> 2. Use PowerISO (http://www.poweriso.com/) to mount the .ISO image as a virtual CD/DVD drive
> ...


 
  Better way:
  1. Use EAC in secure mode with audio cache disabled to rip your files as .flac
  Optional: Tweak the registry (I didn't notice a difference)
  2. Use foobar2000/WASAPI to play the files
  
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> How fast is your boot up now with the SSD compared to a conventional laptop drive ? Are there any drawbacks to using one as O/S primary partition ? I seem to remember some articles talking about page file allocation (dynamically controlled vs a defined specific size) being a slight issue for the SSD type drives. I'm not certain of that assumption being correct...maybe you could shed some light on any drawbacks (if there are any) using the new SSD drives.


 
   
  Very digital interface-related. Could you please stop derailing audio-gd threads?
    
  Quote:


			
				ninjikiran said:
			
		

> /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> SSD performance is phenomenal, running my OS on a 80gb SSD and have my music on a 160gb SSD both Vertex2..
> 
> ...


 

 This isn't a problem with full file buffering in foobar either, and everything still opens instantly for me on a 6 drive RAID 6 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
  Quote: 





lag0a said:


> Has anyone tried using SSD + Superspeed RamDisk Plus + Music Player playing from memory?


 

 Why go through all the trouble? Just use full file buffering in foobar or whatever player you like. Reading the file from memory (ramdisk+player) is reading the file from memory (foobar+file in memory).
   
  My laptop has a sandforce SSD and the sound is marginally better from my desktop with the same settings with laptop running off battery.


----------



## lag0a

I use Windows 7 x64 and foobar may be running the file from memory but foobar isn't in memory. I have tried creating a ramdisk drive of 1 gig and putting foobar and the music files in ramdisk while using a bat file to set the foobar in ramdisk with /separate (separate memory) and /realtime (play foobar in real time). There is a difference in sound quality but mainly in clarity and focus.
  I think because we're dealing with software there may be a huge difference in how each OS and music player execute full file buffering and memory allocation to play music.


----------



## ninjikiran

The SSD imo elimiantes the need for caching into memory first.  Why force your machine to go through the extra step?  Especially if your running your OS on a separate SSD/HD


----------



## haloxt

http://www.cicsmemoryplayer.com/index.php?n=CPlay.SoftwareInducedJitter
   
   
  Quote: 





> A common alternative is audio playback from a HDD using a regular soundcard. Streaming to the DAC (via soundcard connected by PCI, PCIe, Firewire or USB) takes the following path:
> 
> [size=83%]_HDD (SATA/IDE/RAID) > Chipset > RAM > CPU (software) > RAM > Chipset > Soundcard (XO) > DAC_[/size]
> 
> ...


 
   
  But memory players don't completely trivialize hard drive and interface, they can still vibrate and consume power. The people who think there is an audible difference between hdd and ssd prefer ssd.


----------



## lag0a

It seems the best computer transport is using a pico itx, nano itx, or mini itx that consumes very little power and provide the shortest data signal path from Motherboard -> DAC. The CPU should use very little power as well. Any thing with moving parts like fans and spinning hdds should use a separate power supply. Linux seems best for audio if you can run it in real time but I'm not familiar with Linux. I think running Windows 7 x64 in real time would use too much CPU + Ram resources. Basically the lowest voltage and amps you can get for each individual component with a highly tweaked OS using very little CPU + Motherboard + Ram resources.


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





lag0a said:


> ...
> Linux seems best for audio if you can run it in real time but I'm not familiar with Linux. ....


 
   
  In the last few days I've migrated from MPD on Voyage MPD to ecasound on a stripped down version of Debian.
  The difference is huge, relatively speaking. I have a script that decodes my flacs to wav on the /dev/shm (the shared memory directory) before playing them with ecasound. I can browse my library from the iphone through the web server I've installed on the server, and I attached a php script to invoke the player.


----------



## attenuated 3db

realmassy said:


> In the last few days I've migrated from MPD on Voyage MPD to ecasound on a stripped down version of Debian.
> The difference is huge, relatively speaking. I have a script that decodes my flacs to wav on the /dev/shm (the shared memory directory) before playing them with ecasound. I can browse my library from the iphone through the web server I've installed on the server, and I attached a php script to invoke the player.




I am very conscious of not "de-railing" a thread devoted to the Audio-gd Digital Interface (I have an NFB-3 on order, and Kingwa told me that the shipping cost savings of bundling it into one box with a DI wasn't that substantial, and recommended I try my NFB-3 first, with our without my cheapo Teradak X2 USB-S/PDIF converter which at least re-clocks, before ordering a DI.

But I just had to say than the Voyage MPD Linux distribution is extraordinary for someone who is looking to build a computer music server, since it is a free OS designed exclusively for that purpose. Not all of automatically-running background tasks and processes that even a "clean" Windows XP, 7 or OS/X install will have. Since it is "FOSS" (free open-source software), I don't feel like I am "promoting" it by this link:

http://linux.voyage.hk/

Even if you are not Linux-savvy, it is not hard to set-up, since it so "stripped down" and designed expressly to be a music-server OS. And it's free to try, free to keep, free to upgrade.


----------



## lag0a

I was talking about desktop itx. I don't know how old your laptop is so just talking about a short signal path isn't enough. If you can't hear any difference undervolting and underclocking your CPU then you must have a hearing problem because this is basically a known fact there will be an audio difference.


----------



## jude

This isn't the Sound Science sub-forum. Get the thread back on topic, guys (and keep it there).


----------



## attenuated 3db

jude said:


> This isn't the Sound Science sub-forum. Get the thread back on topic, guys (and keep it there).




Sorry for my contributions to derailing the Audio-gd Digital Interface thread. I feel like I've been called into the principal's office: 

"But, Mr. Mansilla, I was just answering PricklyPeete's question about running a laptop without its battery installed to cut down on possible power supply noise (don't know how the thread got to that point, but I hadn't posted here yet), and then one thing just led to another. Do I have to serve detention, like that 'Breakfast Club' movie?"

To quickly atone, Kingwa says in the news section of the Audio-gd website:

"20th Feb. The TCXO 24.576MHz for DI in stock"

Anyone try one yet? I may well be a future customer for a DI (obviously, since I asked Kingwa about possible shipping savings by putting my in-process NFB-3 in the same box with one), so I am gathering information.

Only don't be too "scientific" in your reply, using words like "clock oscillators" and the like. Sorry, Mr. Mansilla. I'll serve the detention, just don't expel me from Head-Fi, please. I like it here. :atsmile:


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





attenuated 3db said:


> To quickly atone, Kingwa says in the news section of the Audio-gd website:
> 
> "20th Feb. The TCXO 24.576MHz for DI in stock"
> 
> ...


 
  I, as well as a few others, posted our impressions of the new clock if you look a few pages (like pages 90-100). It makes improvements in midrange clarity and overall detail/speed.


----------



## haloxt

I've had about 250 hours with the new clock and with that much burn-in it seems to me the main difference between the new and old clock is that the new clock has more clarity/presence. Like the old clock with upsampling, it adds a fuller but rounded dynamic and a seamless continuity. Now I'm pretty certain no upsampling is more neutral, but now with the new clock, I consider the upsampling has a few sure advantages over no upsampling, being more up-front, engaging, and forgiving. Overall though, I do not think there is a big difference between upsampling and no upsampling, but I'd say it's above cable swapping in terms of amount of change to sound. No upsampling has more instrument separation and more faithful transient response but won't hide it if an instrument sounds hollow, good when you want to listen to a more faithful reproduction, but when you want to hear a pleasant and more seamless sound, upsampling with the new clock is better.
   
  Or maybe it just depends on what kind of music is being played, I think a song that strives to sound musical without much care for precise and complex microdetail, will be less affected by the smooth coloration of upsampling. A song I thought was a good example of what upsampling might struggle on was Sarah McLachlan's Vox from 1989 album Touch. Leading and trailing edges seem to get the same softening and smoothing effect at the expensive of microdetail, instruments seem punchier but rounded, less complex, and vocals fuller and richer but more present than they should be.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





jude said:


> This isn't the Sound Science sub-forum. Get the thread back on topic, guys (and keep it there).


 


  It's my fault. I should have PM'd *attenuated 3db* If I had questions about his partcular hardware setup. I apologize to fellow members for the OT subject matter.
   
  Peete.


----------



## Baird GoW

Thanks Jude!


----------



## yossi126

Did someone had a chance to compare DI to the essence st digital output?


----------



## borrego

For those who are using Windows 7, just to let you know that SP1 is already available for "Windows Update" download from Microsoft.
   
  SP1 includes a new USB Audio driver.
   
  I experience increase depth of sound stage with my Audio-gd Digital Interface with the new driver. You may want to try it out yourself.
   
  Overall SP1 also makes the Windows UI more responsive.


----------



## uelover

.


----------



## ulyses

[size=medium]Answered to ualover but his/her message dissapear, so never mind.​[/size]


----------



## attenuated 3db

borrego said:


> For those who are using Windows 7, just to let you know that SP1 is already available for "Windows Update" download from Microsoft.
> 
> SP1 includes a new USB Audio driver.
> 
> ...




... _Not _going to "de-rail" thread devoted to Audio-gd Digitial Interface; nope, not gonna do it, wouldn't be prudent, not at this juncture. 

But, having upgraded to Windows 7 SP1 as I await my Audio-gd NFB-3 (which after trying alone per Kingwa's suggestion), I may then order a DI to go with it, I must note that you lose all of your previous audio settings in the process of the upgrade.

My new Win7SP1 "forgot" the previous default audio device, Foobar didn't not have a valid output to send a WASAPI stream to, etc. Easy to fix, but if someone is initially baffled as to why they have no sound after the upgrade (I was checking cables at one point), this is why.


----------



## borrego

The Windows 7 SP1 USB Audo driver + DI + 1ppm TCXO upgrade for my NFB1 absolutely kick asses. There are never so many layers of sound coming out from my speakers before that. Even kick drum comes out another two or three extra layers. Overall the sound is so much more 3D.


----------



## ulyses

My digital interface came yesterday. Still,I haven't got my nfb10es. But I try to connect my di to my computer. There is a strange high frequency sound appeared from di. Something like dog whistle. Barely hearing but still there. Is this normal?


----------



## haloxt

No that's not normal. I would ask audio-gd about it. The remedy they recommended me was to use glue for my digital filter when some copper coil things were humming , I think they may suggest that to you too.


----------



## thuantran

Coil whine, my computer PSU is doing that too, after two years of serving. But I'm too busy/lazy to open it up, beside I only hear the noise in the middle of the night. A little glue will fix it up.


----------



## ulyses

Thanks for the informations. I will check coils tonight.


----------



## Pacha

I've just placed an order on the TCXO clock. I'll see how it performs.


----------



## JiggaD369

Hey guys,
   
  I'm thinking about either going with the DI or the Jkeny M@ but the only deciding factor at the moment is the PSU for the DI. How much of a difference does the AGD PSU make for the DI? If it does make a big differnce, can I subtitute this for it?
   
http://circulator.bravehost.com/Gminireg.htm


----------



## tim3320070

My experience is that it does improve the sound a very slight amount. It has another benefit of making the connection to the computer more reliable having it's own power supply I suppose.
  There are a few comments earlier in this thread- search.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> My experience is that it does* improve the sound a very slight amount*. It has another benefit of making the connection to the computer more reliable having it's own power supply I suppose.
> There are a few comments earlier in this thread- search.


 

 Just curious what the improvement was relative to?
   
  USG


----------



## haloxt

He means DI vs DI+psu


----------



## Pacha

As far as I can say, PSU was worth buying and has a positive effect on the sound.
   
  You should consider DI over jkeny modified HiFace. I had both and sold the jkeny HiFace.


----------



## scorpionro

Quote: 





yossi126 said:


> Did someone had a chance to compare DI to the essence st digital output?


 
   
   
  I did and I greatly prefer the DI over the ST coax out.


----------



## Baird GoW

My DI and PSU shipped (already received my NFB-10ES non usb days ago). I hope the make a great impact.


----------



## JiggaD369

Is there a audible difference between the USB version over the Coaxial if using a external PSU (24/96)?
   
  SOrry guys, I tried reading through the thread but my eyes are giving out.


----------



## LostChild1

Hi guys, I was wondering if anyone had a few minutes to just clear up some concepts for me? 

Specifically, I'm wondering if your chain is PC -> DAC -> Amp -> Headphones, and you were to change it to PC -> DI -> DAC -> Amp -> Headphones, how exactly would the DI help? I mean, both chains would bypass the DAC in your sound card or computer, but for the audio to even get to the DI, It would still need to travel through the computer, meaning whatever "wrong" the computer did to the sound would still be present by the time it reached the DI. No?

And then, in theory if I'm understanding this right, with the DI your "source" doesn't really matter as much as it would without it. So I could use either my sound cards Coax out, or I could use my mobo's coax out (Or just USB) and expect the same quality. Is this true? 

Thanks for the responses, and sorry for not sifting through a hundred pages to see if similar questions had been answered already.


----------



## uelover

I hear 'weird noise' (the kind of sound when you adjust RCA cables on your amp while playing music, bursting noise?) from my speaker every now and then while running on 192khz upsampling mode on DI (upgraded with TXCO clock). I output 44.1khz signal from my mac and my dac does not do any upsampling. Other than that, the sound quality is brilliant.
   
  I don't encounter this problem when I run 96khz and below.
   
  It is written on audio-gd website that a good quality coaxial cable is needed while running 192khz. I am using VDH Coax which I suppose is good enough. Any idea if it is due to my coaxial cable or dac or something else?


----------



## haloxt

Quote: 





jiggad369 said:


> Is there a audible difference between the USB version over the Coaxial if using a external PSU (24/96)?
> 
> SOrry guys, I tried reading through the thread but my eyes are giving out.


 


  Kingwa at audio-gd says he thinks with the DI, coax is better than usb, while usb is a bit better than optical. This is just generally speaking, different transports and cables etc can change things. There should not be an audible difference between usb+coaxial vs coaxial versions, when using coaxial in both cases. External psu won't change that.
   
   
  Quote: 





> Specifically, I'm wondering if your chain is PC -> DAC -> Amp -> Headphones, and you were to change it to PC -> DI -> DAC -> Amp -> Headphones, how exactly would the DI help? I mean, both chains would bypass the DAC in your sound card or computer, but for the audio to even get to the DI, It would still need to travel through the computer, meaning whatever "wrong" the computer did to the sound would still be present by the time it reached the DI. No?


 
   
  The DI acts like a firewall against jitter going into it. It produces some jitter itself, so if you have a very very squeaky clean digital audio stream going into it, it will get worse going through the DI. Kingwa advises against using the DI with his CD7 transport for example.
   
  Quote: 





> And then, in theory if I'm understanding this right, with the DI your "source" doesn't really matter as much as it would without it. So I could use either my sound cards Coax out, or I could use my mobo's coax out (Or just USB) and expect the same quality. Is this true?


 
   
  According to Kingwa, it reduces the difference between different transports. I have tried some quite bad transports with very thin stock cable, and tried um.. half decent ~$50 transports with good cables and accessories, and there IS a somewhat notable difference, but not a difference that would make or break your system.
   
   
  Quote: 





> I hear 'clicks' from my speaker every now and then while running on 192khz upsampling mode on DI (upgraded with TXCO clock). I output 44.1khz signal from my mac and my dac does not do any upsampling.
> 
> Everything is fine when I run 96khz and below.
> 
> It is written on audio-gd website that a good quality coaxial cable is needed while running 192khz. I am using VDH Coax which I suppose is good enough. Any idea if it is due to my coaxial cable or dac or something else?


 
   
  Test if these clicks happen when you use spdif input from a cd player, dvd player, or cable box. It may be competing processes or audio software latency setting being too low on your mac.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> Test if these clicks happen when you use spdif input from a cd player, dvd player, or cable box. It may be competing processes or audio software latency setting being too low on your mac.


 

 Too bad I am using Version B.
   
  I have tried with iTune, VLC as well as other audio playback softwares with memory playback setting. Doesn't seem to be the problem with my mac.
   
  Anyway, doesn't the upsampling from 44khz to 192khz occur within DI? It should have nothing to do with the source.


----------



## Patu

Okay my DI + PSU with upgrade clock are here. I plugged them in and everything works out of the box. Drivers installed automatically and I didn't have to do a thing, just plug it in. 

About the sound, I've now had it connected only 15 minutes so obviously there's some burning in to do. Immediately I could tell that it sounds very different from HiFace. Sound is clearer and even more dynamic than with HiFace. Bass hits clearly deeper and with more power than with HiFace. What I don't like at the moment is that it's on the edge of being too bright to my taste. Some tracks get ALMOST sibilant with DI. That's not good in the long run but I hope this changes after burn in. Any comments what kind of changes has happened after some burn in? Cables I use are Blue Jeans Cable coaxial and the stock USB cable. If I decide to keep DI then I'll upgrade the cables.

I'll keep you updated.


----------



## haloxt

uelover, I recall multiple people having issues with 192khz and audio-gd gear, but I believe it was for their dac's and digital receivers, not the DI. One more thing, try to make it so your mac outputs 192khz directly into a dac. I am going to test out 192khz out of my ref 3 (predecessor of DI) later today.


----------



## JiggaD369

Quote: 





patu said:


> Okay my DI + PSU with upgrade clock are here. I plugged them in and everything works out of the box. Drivers installed automatically and I didn't have to do a thing, just plug it in.
> 
> About the sound, I've now had it connected only 15 minutes so obviously there's some burning in to do. Immediately I could tell that it sounds very different from HiFace. Sound is clearer and even more dynamic than with HiFace. Bass hits clearly deeper and with more power than with HiFace. What I don't like at the moment is that it's on the edge of being too bright to my taste. Some tracks get ALMOST sibilant with DI. That's not good in the long run but I hope this changes after burn in. Any comments what kind of changes has happened after some burn in? Cables I use are Blue Jeans Cable coaxial and the stock USB cable. If I decide to keep DI then I'll upgrade the cables.
> 
> I'll keep you updated.


 

 Maybe a attentuator (like used wit ha Hiface) might help?


----------



## Patu

jiggad369 said:


> Maybe a attentuator (like used wit ha Hiface) might help?




What?

Few things I noticed.

Now WASAPI output works. With HiFace I couldn't get it to work properly. It crashed foobar2000 when I tried to seek on playing track. Now seeking works fine. I also did the registry tweak mentioned on the page 96. I think WASAPI sounds slightly smoother than Kernel Streaming output. Not sure though, might be placebo. 

Also about the build quality, not so good. But I knew what to expect after owning DAC19Mk3. DI itself is fine but the PSU has uneven bottom so that it rocks back and forth on my equipment rack. That's not very nice.


----------



## JiggaD369

I read somewhere that people had a positive effect using these with DI.
   
http://sites.google.com/site/hifacemods/home/rf-attenuators


----------



## JiggaD369

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> Kingwa at audio-gd says he thinks with the DI, coax is better than usb, while usb is a bit better than optical. This is just generally speaking, different transports and cables etc can change things. There should not be an audible difference between usb+coaxial vs coaxial versions, when using coaxial in both cases. External psu won't change that.


 

  
  Halo,
   
  I meant, is there a audible difference between Version A (using Coax) vs. B (using USB) if all other elements are same (24/96, source, DAC, etc)?


----------



## haloxt

Some people think coaxial sounds better than usb, usually. I think so but it would also depend on the coaxial cable. I haven't tried really expensive usb cables, but the cheap ones I've tried, don't really seem that different from each other. I find it easier to tell between coaxial cables, and I would only rank coaxial above usb (generally speaking) if the coaxial cable is properly built, and preferably 6 feet or less.
   
  Of course there are people who don't believe in an audible difference between coaxial and usb. Or a difference between using DI or not, for that matter. But I presume you want the opinion of people who believe there actually is a difference.


----------



## Helge Gundersen

Quote: 





pacha said:


> As far as I can say, PSU was worth buying and has a positive effect on the sound.
> 
> You should consider DI over jkeny modified HiFace. I had both and sold the jkeny HiFace.


 


  I, too, consider these two, so thanks. But I noticed it was the MkI JKeny HiFace that you sold.


----------



## yossi126

Ordered today the B version + Class A + Clock.
  Should get my Buffalo-II not a long time after the former. As you know many say the ESS chip is jitter-immune so it would be interesting to see what effect DI will have.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> uelover, I recall multiple people having issues with 192khz and audio-gd gear, but I believe it was for their dac's and digital receivers, not the DI. One more thing, try to make it so your mac outputs 192khz directly into a dac. I am going to test out 192khz out of my ref 3 (predecessor of DI) later today.


 


  I can't output 192khz into my DAC due to both Optical and USB constraint. Max is capped at 96khz for optical output and 48khz for USB. I will see if I can get hold of any other DAC to try.


----------



## JiggaD369

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> Some people think coaxial sounds better than usb, usually. I think so but it would also depend on the coaxial cable. I haven't tried really expensive usb cables, but the cheap ones I've tried, don't really seem that different from each other. I find it easier to tell between coaxial cables, and I would only rank coaxial above usb (generally speaking) if the coaxial cable is properly built, and preferably 6 feet or less.
> 
> Of course there are people who don't believe in an audible difference between coaxial and usb. Or a difference between using DI or not, for that matter. But I presume you want the opinion of people who believe there actually is a difference.


 

 Thanks for the input.
   
  I guess Version B will do (clock upgraded) since the highest my DAC supports is 24/96. Plus I will be building a Gold Reference Regulator for PSU so that should be all that I need.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





patu said:


> Okay my DI + PSU with upgrade clock are here. I plugged them in and everything works out of the box. Drivers installed automatically and I didn't have to do a thing, just plug it in.
> 
> About the sound, I've now had it connected only 15 minutes so obviously there's some burning in to do. Immediately I could tell that it sounds very different from HiFace. Sound is clearer and even more dynamic than with HiFace. Bass hits clearly deeper and with more power than with HiFace. What I don't like at the moment is that it's on the edge of being too bright to my taste. Some tracks get ALMOST sibilant with DI. That's not good in the long run but I hope this changes after burn in. Any comments what kind of changes has happened after some burn in? Cables I use are Blue Jeans Cable coaxial and the stock USB cable. If I decide to keep DI then I'll upgrade the cables.
> 
> I'll keep you updated.


 

 Upsampling will make the sound much more rounded off. Why don't you try the upsampling mode anyway since you do have the upgraded clock?
   
  I tried 96khz upsampling for a while and it was too warm/smooth that it makes me wanna pull my hair off. Nonetheless, I think that the layering, bass and dynamics have improved with upsampling.
   
  No upsampling allows faithful representation of the original tracks which I like more.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





yossi126 said:


> Ordered today the B version + Class A + Clock.
> Should get my Buffalo-II not a long time after the former. *As you know many say the ESS chip is jitter-immune* so it would be interesting to see what effect DI will have.


 
   
  Never seen someone say this.


----------



## Patu

Quote: 





uelover said:


> Upsampling will make the sound much more rounded off. Why don't you try the upsampling mode anyway since you do have the upgraded clock?
> 
> I tried 96khz upsampling for a while and it was too warm/smooth that it makes me wanna pull my hair off. Nonetheless, I think that the layering, bass and dynamics have improved with upsampling.
> 
> No upsampling allows faithful representation of the original tracks which I like more.


 
   
  First time when I hear someone say that upsampling would make sound more rounded off. Does anyone else thinks so? Well thanks for the tip, I have to try out the upsampling. My Naim SuperNait's DAC only supports 96khz IIRC.
   
  I think WASAPI made the sound slightly smoother and more refined. Also when the unit warmed up more yesterday it got smoother sounding. Maybe it'll change a bit after some burn in.
   
  By the way, has anyone else have twisted bottom plate on the PSU like I mentioned earlier? It sucks that the whole unit rocks back and forth on a flat surface. I even tried to open up the case to see if there were some screws too tight or something but there was nothing I could do. I tried to gently twist the whole thing but it didn't help. The bottom plate is not even.  I wouldn't want to ship back to China just because of that.


----------



## sayh

Quote: 





patu said:


> By the way, has anyone else have twisted bottom plate on the PSU like I mentioned earlier? It sucks that the whole unit rocks back and forth on a flat surface. I even tried to open up the case to see if there were some screws too tight or something but there was nothing I could do. I tried to gently twist the whole thing but it didn't help. The bottom plate is not even.  I wouldn't want to ship back to China just because of that.


 

 Look at this when i got mine last year  =). I didnt sent back, as long as it dos not affect the PCB inside its practically cosmetics. DIY flatten if you must.


----------



## Patu

Quote: 





sayh said:


> Look at this when i got mine last year  =). I didnt sent back, as long as it dos not affect the PCB inside its practically cosmetics. DIY flatten if you must.


 

 Holy s**t that looks bad. My unit is dented on exactly the same spot but it's not nearly as bad as yours. If you look at that picture, my unit is slightly dented between the two screws from top right corner, just like yours. But it seems that your unit has taken some serious hit under that dent.
   
  Did you contact Audio GD about that and if you did, what was their answer? How is it possible that they send the unit in that shape? I know the dent's can't appear during shipping because the DI and PSU were both packed extremely well. My DAC19Mk3 wasn't pretty but at least it didn't have any dents on it.
   
  Any tips on DIY flattening the bottom? Do I have to unscrew the whole PCB to do that? Last night when I opened up the case I couldn't touch the bottom plate because the PCB blocks it.


----------



## sayh

Quote: 





patu said:


> Holy s**t that looks bad. My unit is dented on exactly the same spot but it's not nearly as bad as yours. If you look at that picture, my unit is slightly dented between the two screws from top right corner, just like yours. But it seems that your unit has taken some serious hit under that dent.
> 
> Did you contact Audio GD about that and if you did, what was their answer? How is it possible that they send the unit in that shape? I know the dent's can't appear during shipping because the DI and PSU were both packed extremely well. My DAC19Mk3 wasn't pretty but at least it didn't have any dents on it.
> 
> Any tips on DIY flattening the bottom? Do I have to unscrew the whole PCB to do that? Last night when I opened up the case I couldn't touch the bottom plate because the PCB blocks it.


 

 Of cos anyone would question them and answer was that the cheaper shipping method made it happen instead and they had many issues with this cheaper shipping to my country =)
  There are no dents or signs of tapering and such on the parcel, with the DI and PSU tape and foam internally properly as usual. So there goes all the coverups. And they should ask you how do you want them to help you out. From then, i guess you will probably be cursing and left with no choice ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Anyway, to flatten the base, you have got to remove the PCB with the spacers. unscrew from the side where the dent-in are. Hammer outwards from the inside on a flat surface with a mallet.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





sayh said:


> Look at this when i got mine last year  =). I didnt sent back, as long as it dos not affect the PCB inside its practically cosmetics. DIY flatten if you must.


 

 What. I would have definitely gotten a new one if mine was like that. Wobbling around would drive me crazy.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I bet a bottom plate swap would cure the wobble, that other unit with the huge dent (and the wobbler for that matter) should be taken care of by A-gd IMO.. Regardless I'd let Kingwa know that the current packaging for shipment is not fool proof (enough)...A-gd needs to review the shipping/packing materials for this unit so that future customers do not end up with a mangled unit or a wobbler because of shipping damage. Optimized packing methods could prevent a lot of headaches for the customer and the factory in the long run.  I'm sure they are packed half decently but having a couple (or more ?) show up with bent / dented chassis plates (lids, whatever) is a sign the protective material is not able to withstand the most careless of courier/postal worker.
   
  Peete.


----------



## Patu

I can assure you that the dent was there before shipping. They were packed so well that you could throw them down to asphalt from top of an apartment building and nothing would happen to the units inside. The amount of stuffing was amazing. Also there were no signs on the box that it would have taken any hits at all. Dent was there before shipping, I'm sure about that.

Another note about the build quality. Now the power plug for 12V line in on the digital interface has some connection problems. When I move the units I lose power on the DI. It doesn't affect if I move the PSU, there's no problems with its connection. Only with DI's connection. When I twist and move the 12V cable the unit loses power. No problems if I switch to USB power. 

It's funny how the external build quality is so crappy but when I looked inside both units they look flawless and very well made. Well that's most important thing naturally but you would hope even some quality control when it comes to casing and external connections.

Can someone confirm if the 12V inputs on DI and PSU take 2,1mm plugs or some other size? I was wondering if I'd get a little sturdier cable between the PSU and DI. The stock cable looks like it goes broken if I touch it.


----------



## haloxt

uelover, it turns out I don't have anything that can accept 192khz/24bit coaxial spdif. My receiver and soundcard use optical instead and I messed up my sparrow's 192khz receiver . Sorry, hope someone else can try to test 192khz to see if your DI is defective or what.
   
  The damage on DI is quite bad, clearly not shipping damage. Audio-gd should send you a new bottom plate if it's not difficult to replace, or compensate some other way.


----------



## uelover

When I bought my DI, Audio-GD insisted that I use DHL and said that using EMS normally resulted in physical damages such as dents on the unit and they will not be held responsible if my unit is physically damaged when delivered using EMS.
   
  I am not sure if that reasoning hold water or is it just a way for audio-gd to make people use DHL as the mode of shipping and charge them at a higher price (since DHL is relatively cheap in China/Hong Kong).
   
  I have also experienced power dropout due to the power line between my DI and PSU. Nonetheless, since I don't always touch or move it around, I did not bother to change it but it would be good if I could do so.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I'd suggest you guys email Kingwa and give him the details about your concerns and usage experience thus far. I had assumed that shipping damage was the culprit since I could not conceive of a company sending out a unit with such defects intact. It certainly does not sound like A-gd to accept such things given the amount of flack Kingwa has taken from us for mistakes/shortcomings on the more expensive gear in his line up. Hopefully some changes can be made so that all of the concerns are addressed and any problems looked after properly to the customers satisfaction. I would expect such from any company.
   
  Let Kingwa know otherwise he can't address issues if no one points out issues directly.
   
  Peete.


----------



## Kingwa

Before packing the gear, we will take some photos of the gear (include the customer's name and the series number can show in the photos) and stock in our PC for 3 months.
  Shatter not often, so we think this maybe shatter by custom check.
  Every one if had problems can email us within 3 months. After 3 months we will delete the photos.


----------



## udailey

That sounds to me like a perfectly reasonable solution.
  BTW I built my own USB cable today. Ordered parts from Mouser and used 28AWG solid silver, teflon tube, braided. I removed the 5V line and left the data and ground lines. 
  I have been wondering if these High End USB cables made a difference. I heard no difference. I thought I did but after repeated back and forth its all the same. 
  I bought a board that used an Analog Devices chip on it. The chip decouples the source device from the DAC or DI via tiny transformers, or their datasheet representation of tiny transformers. Anyway, Will try it in the USB line when it arrives and let you know if there are any changes. Using the DI might negate the need for this stuff. Maybe I should be trying without the DI to see if I hear differences.
  Uriah


----------



## sayh

Quote:


uelover said:


> I have also experienced power dropout due to the power line between my DI and PSU. Nonetheless, since I don't always touch or move it around, I did not bother to change it but it would be good if I could do so.


 

 You could try bending the grounding spring clip inwards *slightly* on DI and PSU, inside the panel connectors. It probably solved the issues with power dropout for me.


----------



## sayh

Quote: 





kingwa said:


> Before packing the gear, we will take some photos of the gear (include the customer's name and the series number can show in the photos) and stock in our PC for 3 months.
> Shatter not often, so we think this maybe shatter by custom check.
> Every one if had problems can email us within 3 months. After 3 months we will delete the photos.


 

 Hi Kingwa, 2 Thumbs up for the good will remedy and assurance. We know AGD packing was top notch as Patu has pointed out earlier, probably indestructable even if taken out and toss as for the DI and PSU packaging.  I just hope the photo taking sessions does not slow down the overall process some more.


----------



## littletree76

My unit has noise problem when used with 192kHz upsampling initially (though no such problem with 96kHz upsampling). Since I use custom built BNC cable with premier cable/connectors between Digital Interface and W4S DAC-1, I can rule out link quality as suggested in Audio-GD website. After I received better crystal oscillator from TentLabs, removed IC socket and soldered the new oscillator directly on to PCB, the noise problem disappeared. I am not sure whether the noise problem is caused by stock oscillator or poor contact with IC socket.
   
  Note I am using coaxial input and BNC output of Digital Interface between HDTV set-top box as audio source and W4S DAC-1 DAC. No appreciable improvement without upsampling with either 96kHz or 192kHz frequencies. Even though W4S DAC-1 is built with ESS9018 DAC chip with advanced jitter reduction feature, intermittent/momentary loss of digital signal lock still occur whenever Digital Interface is installed between the HDTV set-top box and the W4S DAC-1. Whenever digital input is out of synchronization with selected audio source, LED display on front panel of  W4S DAC-1 will show dashes instantaneously for input sample frequency. I am running out of idea to resolve this digital synchronization problem and I don't think Audio-GD is willing to take care of such minor yet irritating problem.
   
  To those owners with DC power line connection problem between Digital Interface and external class A power supply, I use Velco tape to hold both units together as if one single unit. The power supply unit should be on top for better heat dissipation as any class A equipment tend to run hot.
   
  Quote: 





haloxt said:


> uelover, it turns out I don't have anything that can accept 192khz/24bit coaxial spdif. My receiver and soundcard use optical instead and I messed up my sparrow's 192khz receiver . Sorry, hope someone else can try to test 192khz to see if your DI is defective or what.
> 
> The damage on DI is quite bad, clearly not shipping damage. Audio-gd should send you a new bottom plate if it's not difficult to replace, or compensate some other way.


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Quote: 





uelover said:


> Upsampling will make the sound much more rounded off. Why don't you try the upsampling mode anyway since you do have the upgraded clock?
> 
> I tried 96khz upsampling for a while and it was too warm/smooth that it makes me wanna pull my hair off. Nonetheless, I think that the layering, bass and dynamics have improved with upsampling.
> 
> No upsampling allows faithful representation of the original tracks which I like more.


 

 When I first received the PSU for the DI, and upsampling with an upgraded Tent XCO clock, the initial impression was very smooth and it sounds as though there is a veil over the music. I didn't like the results at all. After burning in the PSU overnight (I had the DI much earlier and got the PSU after being intrigued with comments about the better sonics), the upsampled sonics becomes clearer and more semblannce of layers, bass and trebles but still smooth. However, it seems that unplugging eerything from the from the USB connection to the power cables and plugging in again seem to have clear up that veil over the music and it doesn't sound so smooth anymore. I left the whole unit overnight and that initial impression of smoothness with upsampling is gone. In its place is a nice layering of instruments, wider and deeper soundstage, a little further back instead of forward and much better balance between bass, mids and trebles.
   
  My DI PSU do have issues with the cable connectors between the two units. Just moving the PSU or the DI slightly will result in lose of power to the DI. I should think the connections should be better and not have this kind of issue.


----------



## ttan98

Hi,
   
  I have not read all the postings here and I went to Audio-gd website to read about the requirements of the this unit. Can anyone here tell me does the unit comes with a river for Windows XP/7 and/or Mac OSX, or does it not supply with a driver and the computer auto detect its presence?
   
  Those who have own this unit can answer this question. Thanks.


----------



## sayh

Quote: 





ttan98 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have not read all the postings here and I went to Audio-gd website to read about the requirements of the this unit. Can anyone here tell me does the unit comes with a river for Windows XP/7 and/or Mac OSX, or does it not supply with a driver and the computer auto detect its presence?
> 
> Those who have own this unit can answer this question. Thanks.


 
  Plugin auto detect. no installation needed.


----------



## Patu

Quote: 





kingwa said:


> Before packing the gear, we will take some photos of the gear (include the customer's name and the series number can show in the photos) and stock in our PC for 3 months.
> Shatter not often, so we think this maybe shatter by custom check.
> Every one if had problems can email us within 3 months. After 3 months we will delete the photos.


 

 Why would customs open up the box and damage the bottom plate of the unit? My DI and PSU were so well packed that customs would've never see such a trouble re-packing it the way it was. I'm quite sure that no one has opened it since it left China. Or if they have, they didn't remove the products from the box. I seem to have the dent on exactly same spot as sayh. To me this looks like something which has happened during assembly. As I said earlier, my DAC19Mk3 was flawless and that's why I could order DI with confidence. Too bad that now this happened. 
   
  Yesterday I closely inspected the DI itself. It has also dent on the bottom but it's dented from inside out. So it has a slight bump on the bottom. The unit rocks very slightly (but not nearly as bad as PSU) on an even surface so the bottom plate is uneven on both the DI and the PSU.
   
   
  Quote: 





sayh said:


> Quote:
> 
> You could try bending the grounding spring clip inwards *slightly* on DI and PSU, inside the panel connectors. It probably solved the issues with power dropout for me.


 
   
  About the connection problem, it's only on DI. On PSU I can move or twist the cable as much as I like and nothing happens. This is funny since they both have identical connectors. So the DC IN on Digital Interface is faulty somehow. The plug also feels much looser than the DC IN on PSU than it does on DI. I tried to plug the cable both ways and the problem stays on the DI. I loose power when I pull the connector upwards and when I push it downwards it re-powers. So it must be about the spring clip you mention here. I tried to do what you said but it didn't help. I'm not sure I did it right though. I opened the case and tried to push the spring clip slightly but nothing happened. I'm not sure if I want to force it in any stronger.


----------



## ulyses

My digital interface doesn't work correct with foobar 2000 wasapi out at win7. Songs playing faster than it must be. Also Asio4all doesn't work at all. Is there some trick for these issues?


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





ulyses said:


> My digital interface doesn't work correct with foobar 2000 wasapi out at win7. Songs playing faster than it must be. Also Asio4all doesn't work at all. Is there some trick for these issues?


 

 Try lowwering the foobar2000 playback buffer. I use 900ms.


----------



## ulyses

Thanks borrego. I will try it.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





littletree76 said:


> My unit has noise problem when used with 192kHz upsampling initially (though no such problem with 96kHz upsampling). Since I use custom built BNC cable with premier cable/connectors between Digital Interface and W4S DAC-1, I can rule out link quality as suggested in Audio-GD website. After I received better crystal oscillator from TentLabs, removed IC socket and *soldered the new oscillator directly on to PCB, the noise problem disappeared*. I am not sure whether the noise problem is caused by stock oscillator or poor contact with IC socket.


 
   
  Hmm this may be problematic for me since Audio-GD had soldered the TXCO clock upgrade directly onto my DI. Any other users could commend on 192khz upsampling with the TXCO clock?


----------



## Patu

I'm e-mailing with Kingwa. He sent me some pictures he thought are from my unit but they are from some 120V unit which was shipped to USA. Anyway I noticed in those units that they have rubber feet under both DI and PSU. I didn't have any rubber feet at all under my units. Should there be rubber feet under them? Weird...


----------



## ulyses

My unit hasn't rubber feet either.


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





patu said:


> I'm e-mailing with Kingwa. He sent me some pictures he thought are from my unit but they are from some 120V unit which was shipped to USA. Anyway I noticed in those units that they have rubber feet under both DI and PSU. I didn't have any rubber feet at all under my units. Should there be rubber feet under them? Weird...


 

 Maybe one of his workers at the factory did the dodgy and needs a kick up the bum.


----------



## Pacha

My units don't have rubber either. Rubber bands would be welcome to avoid scratches, or at least slithering as my units does on my wooden desk.


----------



## tim3320070

Just use those little felt chair pads that have a sticky side. I put those on the bottom of the PSU and used velcro to keep them connected.


----------



## Patu

Yeah no problem with the rubber feet. I already put my own silicone feet under the units. It's just something you'd hope is there to begin with. 

Now the power plug seems to work better. I hope it stays that way. I guess I don't have enough energy to ship the units back. Now my only problem is the dent at the bottom of the device. 

Otherwise they work great. I already tried the upsampling and now I'm back with the default settings. It's slightly smoother sounding now than straight out of the box, which is definitely a good thing. It definitely outperforms my stock HiFace (I have one of the first HiFaces made with the bigger clocks) and it's probably a keeper. I will compare DI with HiFace Evo when I have time to pick up one for home audition.


----------



## Patu

Can someone confirm if the 12V DC sockets on PSU take 2.1mm plugs? 

Planning on ordering this cable: http://www.russandrews.com/product.asp?lookup=0&region=EU&sessionID=NTY&currency=EUR&pf_id=1807&customer_id=PAA1652102708408RPTOZWLJKQSCPDGB

I just want to be sure it fits between the DI and PSU.


----------



## hawkhead

@Patu
   
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Teralink-X2-X1-Power-Supply-A-B-4N-Silver-DC-Cable-/260734294071


----------



## somestranger26

Huh, your guys' don't have feet?? There were little sticky feet in the box with mine that I put on to prevent metal on metal scrapes.


----------



## Patu

somestranger26 said:


> Huh, your guys' don't have feet?? There were little sticky feet in the box with mine that I put on to prevent metal on metal scrapes.




I don't even have them in the box.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





borrego said:


> Try lowwering the foobar2000 playback buffer. I use 900ms.


 

 Wondering why lowering the buffer should do anything to WASAPI or ASIO4ALL?
   


  Quote: 





patu said:


> It definitely outperforms my stock HiFace (I have one of the first HiFaces made with the bigger clocks) and it's probably a keeper. I will compare DI with HiFace Evo when I have time to pick up one for home audition.


 

 How's the brightness problem you mentioned?  Your initial feeling was that the DI was brighter than the HiFace.
   
  USG


----------



## ulyses

Lowering buffer works for wasapi. Infact I lowered it below 100 and latency at the begining of the songs dissapeared. Still asio4all doesn't working but not a big deal, wasapi just fine.


----------



## Patu

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> Wondering why lowering the buffer should do anything to WASAPI or ASIO4ALL?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Lowering the buffer did help with WASAPI. I use 100ms buffer and the latency after clicking play or skipping on a track is very small. Right after I cranked the latency up to 200ms I noticed a much longer latency. So I use 100ms.
   
  About the brightness, it's not that bad anymore. Now I use it with upsampling to 192khz. Yesterday I quickly tried without upsampling and the sound gets more "brutal" with some recordings. Of course majority of recordings sound fine but I want to be able to listen to all of my tracks without any hint of sibilance or fatigue. Maybe the DI + PSU start to burn in or then my ears are burning in.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





ulyses said:


> Lowering buffer works for wasapi. Infact I lowered it below 100 and latency at the begining of the songs dissapeared. Still asio4all doesn't working but not a big deal, wasapi just fine.


 

 If I understand you correctly, you lowered the foobar buffer to get the songs to start faster after you clicked the start arrow?  Not for anything related to sound quality, right?


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





patu said:


> About the brightness, it's not that bad anymore. Now I use it with upsampling to 192khz. Yesterday I quickly tried without upsampling and the sound gets more "brutal" with some recordings. Of course majority of recordings sound fine but I want to be able to listen to all of my tracks without any hint of sibilance or fatigue. Maybe the DI + PSU start to burn in or then my ears are burning in.


 

 At this point, without upsampling, do you feel the DI is *brighter than*, *the same as*, or *less bright* than the HiFace?
   
   
  Edit:  I just thought of something else.  Are the microseconds in foobar's buffer in real time?  If they are in real time, and there are one million microseconds in 1 second, I'm wondering how much of a difference 100ms makes in real time?  I settled on 1980ms a long time ago to prevent any popping, clicking or hesitation during play.  I probably could lower it but the delay, from pressing the start button to when I hear music, although noticeable, is not that great.....but it seems longer than 1980 microseconds, so the *ms* in foobar must stand for miliseconds, where there are 1000 miliseconds in a second?  That would make more sense because my buffer feels more like 2 seconds.  So if that's the case, you lowered your buffer from 2 tenths of a second to 1 tenth of a second, right?


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> If I understand you correctly, you lowered the foobar buffer to get the songs to start faster after you clicked the start arrow?  Not for anything related to sound quality, right?


 

 I also use 100ms buffer setting in foobar, since Kingwa said (paraphrase) the lower the better for reducing any dropout issues (I get them occasionally when multitasking heavily) as well as reducing their length. Not for sound quality.
   
  The ms means milliseconds, if it was microseconds it would be us or µs.
   
  Quote:


ulyses said:


> Lowering buffer works for wasapi. Infact I lowered it below 100 and latency at the begining of the songs dissapeared. Still asio4all doesn't working but not a big deal, wasapi just fine.


 
  Why would you want to use ASIO over WASAPI anyway?


----------



## ulyses

Quote: 





> Quote:
> Why would you want to use ASIO over WASAPI anyway?


 

  
  My be it's placebo but I always feelt asio4all more stable than wasapi.


----------



## Patu

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> At this point, without upsampling, do you feel the DI is *brighter than*, *the same as*, or *less bright* than the HiFace?
> 
> 
> Edit:  I just thought of something else.  Are the microseconds in foobar's buffer in real time?  If they are in real time, and there are one million microseconds in 1 second, I'm wondering how much of a difference 100ms makes in real time?  I settled on 1980ms a long time ago to prevent any popping, clicking or hesitation during play.  I probably could lower it but the delay, from pressing the start button to when I hear music, although noticeable, is not that great.....but it seems longer than 1980 microseconds, so the *ms* in foobar must stand for miliseconds, where there are 1000 miliseconds in a second?  That would make more sense because my buffer feels more like 2 seconds.  So if that's the case, you lowered your buffer from 2 tenths of a second to 1 tenth of a second, right?


 

 It sounds slightly brighter than HiFace. But the difference in bass weight and power is easier to hear. Also I think it sounds more three dimensional and has slightly better separation than HiFace. Easier to differentiate small nuances from music.
   
  Not sure about the buffer but reaction time of foobar comes noticeably slower when raising the buffer from 100 to 200ms with WASAPI output. With Kernel Streaming output it's not so easy to notice. Weird indeed.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> I also use 100ms buffer setting in foobar, since Kingwa said (paraphrase) the lower the better for reducing any dropout issues (I get them occasionally when multitasking heavily) as well as reducing their length. Not for sound quality.


 

 I don't understand why lowering the buffer would reduce dropouts during multitasking? 
   


  Quote: 





patu said:


> It sounds slightly brighter than HiFace. But the difference in bass weight and power is easier to hear. Also I think it sounds more three dimensional and has slightly better separation than HiFace. Easier to differentiate small nuances from music.
> 
> Not sure about the buffer but reaction time of foobar comes noticeably slower when raising the buffer from 100 to 200ms with WASAPI output. With Kernel Streaming output it's not so easy to notice. Weird indeed.


 

 The reason I ask about the brightness is that many have noted that the DI is darker than the HiFace, not less detailed, just darker in nature.  I even remeber reading a Computer Audiophile review to that effect.....
   
  Anyway, I have come to the conclusion that your first production HiFace doesn't sound anything like the later treble tilted and brighter HiFace I received. There must have been more changes, besides the large-clock, small-clock issue that was spotted by the DIYers, because I've seen many posts from people who were dissatisfied and sold their HiFace because it was too bright.
   
  Yeah, it's weird that that buffer should be more noticeable with WASAPI than Kernel Streaming. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Although I always felt WASAPI sounded slightly better than Kernel Streaming or ASIO4ALL......  Placebo?  Maybe?


----------



## Legis

Is anyone capable of measuring the jitter of his/her system with and without the DI in the chain and with and without oversampling used in DI?
   
  Here's some jitter measurements made with ARTA using ASIO. It has measurement option dedicated to measure jitter and it's free to use, but unlicenced version does not allow one to save sessions (one can still use screen capture though).
  - The first graph is the jitter of EMU 0404 USB (EMU analog output --> EMU analog input).
  - The second graph is the jitter of the same chain with DCX2496 added in between (EMU analog output --> DCX analog input --> EMU analog input).
  - The third graph is taken with digital connection between EMU and DCX ( EMU digital output --> DCX digital input --> EMU analog input).
   
  Seems that DCX enhances the jitter performance of the chain with oversampling and sample rate conversion (everything being fed is sampled to 96kHz). I have been looking some low jitter USB to s/pdif converter to be able to retire the EMU, and it would be interesting to see some actual measurements on the DI.


----------



## lag0a

Has anyone tried to A/B the coaxial input of the DI vs USB input of the DI? Is there a major difference? I have read but not sure if it is true that the USB corrects the time domain ( Flow and clarity of the music is better) of the data sent but fails in the frequency domain ( You may experience missing some low, medium, or high frequencies in your music) while it's vice versa for the SPDIF.
   
  The advantage of ASIO is ASIO latency which you can set as low as 1 ms but you may experience pop, crackle, and cracks. I don't think you can set WASAPI's latency that low. I'm not sure what advantages WASAPI has over ASIO.


----------



## PhaedrusX

can anyone confirm whether or not this outputs a bit perfect signal?
   
  i recall someone mentioning that the HDCD led on his DAC did not light up, and i'm not sure if anyone has been able to successfully verify bit perfect through DTS.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> I don't understand why lowering the buffer would reduce dropouts during multitasking?
> *I believe it is because a larger buffer means longer periods of consecutive cpu use dedicated to playing back audio, so when you're doing something else CPU-intensive, it will either need to wait longer if lower priority, or interrupt the playback if higher priority and cause a dropout. With smaller buffer lengths, there is more frequent switching between different processes so that there are less instances where applications are fighting over the same clock cycles.*
> 
> The reason I ask about the brightness is that many have noted that the DI is darker than the HiFace, not less detailed, just darker in nature.  I even remeber reading a Computer Audiophile review to that effect.....
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





phaedrusx said:


> can anyone confirm whether or not this outputs a bit perfect signal?
> 
> i recall someone mentioning that the HDCD led on his DAC did not light up, and i'm not sure if anyone has been able to successfully verify bit perfect through DTS.


 


 No, it doesn't unless someone has found otherwise. All audio is processed through the DSP-3 chip and there's no passthrough mode.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> *Heh, I just plain didn't like my HiFace (when they first came out) and never found it to be bright.*


 


  What didn't you like about it?
   
  What were you comparing it to?
   
  Just curious.


----------



## somestranger26

I was using my DAC-19MK3 and couldn't really tell a difference with the hiface vs. the built in usb input (which is not async). I suspect my hiface was one of the 'small clock' ones. I sold it to get the DI and am very pleased with that decision.


----------



## Baird GoW

My DI and PSU came yesterday. I switched from optical... I *immediately *heard a difference. Strangely it gives more/better/deeper bass and also more detail and separation imo.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> I was using my DAC-19MK3 and couldn't really tell a difference with the hiface vs. the built in usb input (which is not async). I suspect my hiface was one of the 'small clock' ones. I sold it to get the DI and am very pleased with that decision.


 

 I'm not familiar with the 19MK3 but if it's an upsampling DAC, that might have been the problem. (see PM for details)
   


  Quote: 





baird gow said:


> My DI and PSU came yesterday. I switched from optical... I *immediately *heard a difference. Strangely it gives more/better/deeper bass and also more detail and separation imo.


 

 Hi... just wanted to know if your DI sounded bright to you?


----------



## somestranger26

The DAC-19MK3 uses dual PCM1704UK and uses oversampling but not upsampling. I notice similar differences as Baird Gow (although mine is actually burnt in and no PSU) between optical and the digital interface with my current DAC, the NFB-10ES, which upsamples to 864kHz as well as oversample so upsampling doesn't seem to be an issue.


----------



## Patu

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> I was using my DAC-19MK3 and couldn't really tell a difference with the hiface vs. the built in usb input (which is not async). I suspect my hiface was one of the 'small clock' ones. I sold it to get the DI and am very pleased with that decision.


 


 I also had DAC19Mk3 and HiFace. To me the DAC19Mk3's USB-input sounded more harsh and digital while M2Tech was more analog sounding. There was a difference but DAC19Mk3 USB-input was surprisingly good.
   
  My DI + PSU gets better every day. Now I don't find the sound that bright anymore. But do remember that I use it with upsampling to 192khz. If the sound gets any smoother and analog like while the equipment burn in more, I'll try it again without upsampling. I will also upgrade the cabling but I'm not sure yet which USB cable and coaxial I'd go for. I'd need long USB-cable and all the "better" models are ridiculously expensive when they go over 3.0m.


----------



## Patu

By the way, I just ordered Musical Fidelity's V-Link also. It's so cheap that there's no harm trying it out also. Nice measurements at least, It should have "zero jitter". 
   
  http://www.musicalfidelity.com/products/V-Series/V-LINK/v-link.asp


----------



## tim3320070

.


----------



## Baird GoW

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> Hi... just wanted to know if your DI sounded bright to you?


   
  Not that I have noticed.


----------



## uelover

after listening with the upsampling mode (96khz and 48khz) for a few days, I find myself preferring the non-upsampling sound better - vocals and the overall feel sound more natural to me.
   
  anyone feels the same?


----------



## lag0a

I found out long ago it is best to keep the sample size the same as the file's sample size but since my sound card has the option to change it and I'm too lazy to change it back and forth between 44.1khz and 48khz so I just leave it at 48khz.


----------



## moonboy403

With the upgraded clock, I prefer the 48khz mode.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





uelover said:


> after listening with the upsampling mode (96khz and 48khz) for a few days, I find myself preferring the non-upsampling sound better - vocals and the overall feel sound more natural to me.
> 
> anyone feels the same?


 
  I feel pretty much the opposite, I find the vocals to be more engaging and natural sounding at 96khz, as well as sort of smoothing out the overall sound while retaining the detail. With the TCXO upgrade I prefer 96khz, and without it I prefer 44.1khz.


----------



## Patu

somestranger26 said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by uelover linkafter listening with the upsampling mode (96khz and 48khz) for a few days, I find myself preferring the non-upsampling sound better - vocals and the overall feel sound more natural to me.
> 
> anyone feels the same?
> ...




Doesn't anyone use upsampling to 192khz? I use that one now but I'm still testing.


----------



## hawkhead

Tried 192 - no output - which really made me panic - but 96 still works!


----------



## uelover

i am using the upgraded clock too but i still prefer the unsampling mode. maybe i can sell my clock to someone else lol.


----------



## hawkhead

Me too
   
  On Wish you were Here (for example) it just kills the atack and detail on the guitars
   
  Anybody else want a tentlabs 1pps clock ?
  
  Quote: 





uelover said:


> i am using the upgraded clock too but i still prefer the unsampling mode. maybe i can sell my clock to someone else lol.


----------



## moonboy403

Did you guys try the 48khz mode?


----------



## uelover

i have tried 48khz, 96khz and 192khz.
   
  i find that the upsampling mode, while smoothening out the sound, renders the music a little artificial. It is not the natural sound you will hear in a symphony orchestral hall or any acoustic live performance.
   
  I guess that this might boil down to preferences as well as the genre of music. nonetheless, the txco costs USD20+ so the damage to my wallet is not big.


----------



## somestranger26

I received my PSU today and succinctly put, it improves every positive aspect of the digital interface (especially bass) and is definitely worth it if you have the money.


----------



## Baird GoW

For the first time I turned my psu off and used usb. I can totally tell that the PSU makes the details/vocals shine more. Haven't noticed as much change in bass department like somestranger has but I do hear some change.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> I received my PSU today and succinctly put, it improves every positive aspect of the digital interface (especially bass) and is definitely worth it if you have the money.


 

  
  Quote: 





baird gow said:


> For the first time I turned my psu off and used usb. I can totally tell that the PSU makes the details/vocals shine more. Haven't noticed as much change in bass department like somestranger has but I do hear some change.


 


  Humm, such a noticeable effect.  Wondering what KingWa has to say about that, since he said the power supply was not necessary?


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> Humm, such a noticeable effect.  Wondering what KingWa has to say about that, since he said the power supply was not necessary?


 

 It isn't. Just like Kingwa says it's only if you want an upgrade.


----------



## Currawong

In case anyone is still wondering, putting the DI between my CD player and Reference 1 didn't make the sound brighter. It didn't change the tonal balance at all.


----------



## Baird GoW

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> Humm, such a noticeable effect.  Wondering what KingWa has to say about that, since he said the power supply was not necessary?


 
  I had my doubts when I ordered it... But so far every tweak I have made I have been able to tell a difference. I think this may have something to do with how detailed the NFB-10ES seems to be (I'm VERY happy I bought one)...


----------



## uelover

The psu definitely improves the sound by a little (cleaner) but i can totally live without it.
   
  The overall improvement to the sound is small for the price you are paying. The DI is still the best bang for buck and the PSU totally pales in comparison.
   
  Nevertheless, it still provides an upgrade for those who want the best out of their DI.


----------



## MikeW

Im really curious how this stacks up to the Musical Fidelity V-Link, as they are similiar in price. I've seen the insides of the V-link, and they don't exactly inspire confidence. Certainly does not have the overbuilt power supply filtering of the DI. But intial reports have nonetheless been positive.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> It isn't. Just like Kingwa says it's only if you want an *upgrade*.


 


  I've noticed that he carefully *doesn't say* that if you upgrade to a separate power supply it will improve the sound by a noticeable amount.


  Quote: 





baird gow said:


> I had my doubts when I ordered it... But so far *every tweak I have made I have been able to tell a difference*. I think this may have something to do with how detailed the NFB-10ES seems to be (I'm VERY happy I bought one)...


 
   
  Got to be careful when you say something like "every tweak".......  it begins to resemble expectation placebo.
   
  I think having external PS is fine, but let's remember that the DI was originally made to run off USB power and that Kingwa only made an external PS because people were asking for it, not because his DI needed it to sound better.
   
  Not withstanding that it's nice to have a matching PS, I think your original doubts were justified regarding a noticeable improvement in sound.
   


  Quote: 





mikew said:


> *Im really curious how this stacks up to the Musical Fidelity V-Link*, as they are similiar in price. I've seen the insides of the V-link, and they don't exactly inspire confidence. Certainly does not have the overbuilt power supply filtering of the DI. But intial reports have nonetheless been positive.


 

 I'd like to know how it stacks up against the V-Link also.
   
   
  USG


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





uelover said:


> The psu definitely improves the sound by a little (cleaner) but i can totally live without it.
> 
> The overall improvement to the sound is small for the price you are paying. The DI is still the best bang for buck and the PSU totally pales in comparison.
> 
> Nevertheless, it still provides an upgrade for those who want the best out of their DI.


 

 I found the overall improvement of the PSU to be modest and at about the same bang/buck as the digital interface. Totally worth it.
  Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> I've noticed that he carefully *doesn't say* that if you upgrade to a separate power supply it will improve the sound by a noticeable amount.


 
  [size=x-small](The Digital Interface can work well by USB power supply ,The external power supply only for upgrade, not necessary .)[/size]
  [size=x-small] In order to minimize noise and keep jitter at its lowest, applies class A transistors PSU.[/size]
  I'm sorry, but what else is "upgrade" and "minimize noise and jitter" supposed to mean besides that it improves the sound?
 [size=x-small] [/size]


----------



## MikeW

I think alot of it may be dependant on the computer. Rather it's a laptop, or desktop, also depending on the motherboard and power supply. Some motherboards have better power filtering then others, as do some power supplies. So it may vary greatly, I think the psu would help to even out any possible variations in performance. I also find it curious there is little to no difference when using an adum isolator.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> I found the overall improvement of the PSU to be modest and at about the same bang/buck as the digital interface. Totally worth it.
> [size=x-small](The Digital Interface can work well by USB power supply ,The external power supply only for upgrade, not necessary .)[/size]
> [size=x-small] In order to minimize noise and keep jitter at its lowest, applies class A transistors PSU.[/size]
> I'm sorry, but what else is "upgrade" and *"minimize noise and jitter" *supposed to mean besides that it improves the sound?
> [size=x-small] [/size]


 

 Oh, that old rubric....   Noise and Jitter!
   
  Sure, minimize it below the already inaudible levels its at  without the external power supply. (see below)

  
  Quote: 





mikew said:


> I think alot of it may be dependant on the computer. Rather it's a laptop, or desktop, also depending on the motherboard and power supply. Some motherboards have better power filtering then others, as do some power supplies. So it may vary greatly, I think the psu would help to even out any possible variations in performance. *I also find it curious there is little to no difference when using an adum isolator.*


 
   

 That is curious isn't it?
   
   
  USG


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





mikew said:


> I think alot of it may be dependant on the computer. Rather it's a laptop, or desktop, also depending on the motherboard and power supply. Some motherboards have better power filtering then others, as do some power supplies. So it may vary greatly, I think the psu would help to even out any possible variations in performance. I also find it curious there is little to no difference when using an adum isolator.


 

 There has been an emphasis on audio-gd part when I emailed them that it represents only as an upgrade and the difference is small, making me reluctant to buy it in the first place but I gave in to my temptation.
   
  The difference in improvement I get from switching from USB to DI (coax) input on my DAC compared to switching from USB power to external PSU are on two very different scale. On the former I get a more natural presentation of sound that is also fuller and less digital but on the latter the improvements were small (a little smoother and more body at the lows which I am not sure if it is placebo effect on my own). With or without PSU, the DI alone sounds great.
   
  Like what MikeW brought out, the improvement will scale according to the system and the PSU helps us to isolate the influence of power line differences in determining how good DI is across different system setup. Nonetheless, it is good to know that the PSU did indeed bring some improvement on certain systems while little on the others, confirming Kingwa's expectation.


----------



## Nada

When I use the external power supply for my DI I hear a modest but definite improvement in clarity feeding a REF7 via BNC (with source being  Asus MB USB and WIN7 as source).
  For my money its good value given the cost of my system.
   
  I along with many found that Kingwa did not push me to get the power supply. He seems to have a habit of understating and underselling his gear . I think that's smart as unless a system is sufficiently resolving or the hearing is good enough the customer will not hear a benefit and some will feel ripped off.
   
  What I hear with my DI is:
   
  USB (with USB power) < USB with Power Supply < SPDIF (requires Power Supply)
   
  I would find this thread more useful with actual user feedback instead of naive speculation yabba, yabba, yabba.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





uelover said:


> There has been an emphasis on audio-gd part when I emailed them that it represents only as an upgrade and the difference is small, making me reluctant to buy it in the first place but I gave in to my temptation.
> 
> The difference in improvement I get from switching from USB to DI (coax) input on my DAC compared to switching from USB power to external PSU are on two very different scale. On the former I get a *more natural presentation of sound that is also fuller and less digital *but on the latter the improvements were small (a little smoother and more body at the lows which I am not sure if it is placebo effect on my own). With or without PSU, the DI alone sounds great.
> 
> Like what MikeW brought out, the improvement will scale according to the system and the PSU helps us to isolate the influence of power line differences in determining how good DI is across different system setup. Nonetheless, it is good to know that the PSU did indeed bring some improvement on certain systems while little on the others, confirming Kingwa's expectation.


 

 Hi uelover
   
  Could you go into more detail about how you utilized the coax and usb with the DI?  I want to understand what was connected to what when you got "the natural presentation of sound....".
   
  Also, are you using a power conditioner or power filter?
   
  Thanks
   
  USG


----------



## Baird GoW

Well you see my PSU is running of of the Power Filter where as my PC (usb power) is running off my Battery Backup. So that might have something to do with it.
 How does that make it sound like placebo? Secondly I had huge doubts about my filter, powercables, and all the rest because I really never heard differences in my lower end gear. If anything I think it would be placebo for me to think that I was hearing zero change. The thing is when I do things like hit the switch on my DI to go from psu to usb power I hear an immediate lowering in SQ. That's all I really have to say about that.
 Also I'm using a BJC BNC cable (true 75 ohm) and a monoprice gold plated USB cable if you are wondering what cables I use.
  Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> Got to be careful when you say something like "every tweak".......  it begins to resemble expectation placebo.
> I think having external PS is fine, but let's remember that the DI was originally made to run off USB power and that Kingwa only made an external PS because people were asking for it, not because his DI needed it to sound better.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





baird gow said:


> Well you see my PSU is running of of the Power Filter where as my PC (usb power) is running off my Battery Backup. So that might have something to do with it.
> How does that make it sound like placebo? Secondly I had huge doubts about my filter, powercables, and all the rest because I really never heard differences in my lower end gear. If anything I think it would be placebo for me to think that I was hearing zero change. *The thing is when I do things like hit the switch on my DI to go from psu to usb power I hear an immediate lowering in SQ. *That's all I really have to say about that.
> Also I'm using a BJC BNC cable (true 75 ohm) and a monoprice gold plated USB cable if you are wondering what cables I use.


 

 That *is* interesting!  Why do you think that happens?


----------



## Baird GoW

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> That *is* interesting!  Why do you think that happens?


 
  Because the psu does affect SQ...


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





mikew said:


> I think alot of it may be dependant on the computer. Rather it's a laptop, or desktop, also depending on the motherboard and power supply. Some motherboards have better power filtering then others, as do some power supplies. So it may vary greatly, I think the psu would help to even out any possible variations in performance. I also find it curious there is little to no difference when using an adum isolator.


 

 I believe it has more to do with how resolving the system it's used in is.
   
  Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> Oh, that old rubric....   Noise and Jitter!
> 
> Sure, minimize it below the already inaudible levels its at  without the external power supply. (see below)


 


  I like how you ignored the part where Kingwa states it is an upgrade.


----------



## ninjikiran

Because it is stated doesn't mean its true.  As with everything audio much of it is not science, but instead is based off of someones perception whether it be clouded by placebo or not.
   
  I am not attacking Kingwa, he is design genious.  Just saying no matter what side of the argument your on its best you trust your own ears then rely on a third party account. 
   
  At the same time expectations can severely taint your own opinion of an audio product.  Since it is proven that you hear what you think/concentrate on.  This is something that can occur regardless of _*true *_differences.
   
  So i
  Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> I believe it has more to do with how resolving the system it's used in is.
> 
> 
> 
> I like how you ignored the part where _*Kingwa*_ states it is an upgrade.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> Hi uelover
> 
> Could you go into more detail about how you utilized the coax and usb with the DI?  I want to understand what was connected to what when you got "the natural presentation of sound....".
> 
> ...


 

 I am not using any power conditioner or filter. 
   
*Macbook pro --> stock usb cable --> DI w/ PSU--> coax --> dac*
   
  Kingwa mentioned that DI improves the sound for entry to mid range DAC but will not improve the sound of high-end DAC as their USB implementation would equal or beat that of the DI. Since you want to know how it improves the sound while you don't own one, instead of basing on head-fiers opinions, why don't you ask Kingwa directly on how his product will benefit the user?
   
  Anyway somestranger26, I don't think that my set up is much less resolving than yours but I am not hearing the large difference with or without PSU. I tried with iem too which is supposingly more sensitive to noise. Thus, I am believing that the USB line noise makes the difference. If there is little line noise when DI is powered via USB in the first place, you will not get much improvement by eliminating those little noise. The converse holds true.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





ninjikiran said:


> Because it is stated doesn't mean its true.  As with everything audio much of it is not science, but instead is based off of someones perception whether it be clouded by placebo or not.
> 
> I am not attacking Kingwa, he is design genious.  Just saying no matter what side of the argument your on its best you trust your own ears then rely on a third party account.
> 
> At the same time expectations can severely taint your own opinion of an audio product.  Since it is proven that you hear what you think/concentrate on.  This is something that can occur regardless of _*true *_differences.


 

 Everyone that has tried the power supply has said it is an upgrade, only differing in our opinions of the magnitude of change. I don't know why you're trying to call this a placebo effect. Have you even tried it?
   
  Quote: 





uelover said:


> Anyway somestranger26, I don't think that my set up is much less resolving than yours but I am not hearing the large difference with or without PSU. I tried with iem too which is supposingly more sensitive to noise. Thus, I am believing that the USB line noise makes the difference. If there is little line noise when DI is powered via USB in the first place, you will not get much improvement by eliminating those little noise. The converse holds true.


 
  I've never heard the Stagedac, but I think you would be pleasantly surprised if you tried the NFB-10ES. The ESS9018's transparency makes every little tweak like the power supply shine through. I'm more saying that people with low/midfi systems are probably not going to notice a difference.
   
  Something people may want to note is that I'm using the power supply hooked up to my audio-gd power filter's -70dB socket so that may increase the apparent differences I'm hearing.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Everyone that has tried the power supply has said it is an upgrade, only differing in our opinions of the magnitude of change. I don't know why you're trying to call this a placebo effect. Have you even tried it?
> 
> I've never heard the Stagedac, but I think you would be pleasantly surprised if you tried the NFB-10ES. The ESS9018's transparency makes every little tweak like the power supply shine through. I'm more saying that people with low/midfi systems are probably not going to notice a difference.


 


  I will classify StageDAC in the same level as NFB-10WM. Decided to go for Meier product instead. ES Sabra DAC chip could be better but I don't think the difference is huge. Both DAC are in the mid range category.
   
  The logic of PSU upgrade is the same for the use of power conditioners. If the mains is dirty, power conditioner does improve the sound by a larger margin as compared to those who already have a clean main lines. How worth it it is to the user depends on how much usb line noise he could remove and whether those noise are affecting the sound in the first place on his system.
   
  Of course, lower end gear may not be able to hear the difference much. Upgrading the PSU for DI when the cost of PSU alone represents a large fraction of the DAC cost is not worth it since the DAC is using low grade internal PSU.
   
  However, mid range DAC onwards (which I believe most of us are in) should be able to discern them well.
   
  I don't see the need for high end DAC to require the use of DI anyway =)


----------



## Baird GoW

Quote: 





uelover said:


> I will classify StageDAC in the same level as NFB-10WM. Decided to go for Meier product instead. ES Sabra DAC chip could be better but I don't think the difference is huge. Both DAC are in the mid range category.


 
  hmmm. I find that hard to believe since the nfb-10 is balanced.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





uelover said:


> I am not using any power conditioner or filter.
> 
> *Macbook pro --> stock usb cable --> DI w/ PSU--> coax --> dac*
> 
> *Kingwa mentioned that DI improves the sound for entry to mid range DAC but will not improve the sound of high-end DAC as their USB implementation would equal or beat that of the DI.*


 


  I remember reading that too.  But my NorthStar 192 MKII doesn't have a usb implementation, so I'm looking for a usb implementation to replace the Blue Circle Thingee currently in use.
   
  I see how you got the better sound:   *Macbook pro --> stock usb cable --> DI w/ PSU--> coax --> dac*
   
  And I understand switching from external to usb power::
   
*Macbook pro --> stock usb cable --> DI **w/ PSU**--> coax --> dac   **  Vs.    **  Macbook pro --> stock usb cable --> DI --> coax --> dac*
   
   
  But I'm not sure how you had it hooked up when you said:  *[[  switching from USB to DI (coax) input on my DAC*  *]]*
   
   
  Did you mean:  *Macbook pro --> stock usb cable --> dac* *w/usb* *--> amp*
   
  USG


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





baird gow said:


> hmmm. I find that hard to believe since the nfb-10 is balanced.


 

 StageDAC runs on dual-mono mode just that it outputs to unbalanced rca out. If you use NFB-10 with its rca output instead of xlr, you will get the same thing - balanced DAC into a non-balanced output.
   
  Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> But I'm not sure how you had it hooked up when you said:  *[[  switching from USB to DI (coax) input on my DAC*  *]]*
> 
> 
> Did you mean:  *Macbook pro --> stock usb cable --> dac* *w/usb* *--> amp*
> ...


 

 Yes it was macbook pro --> stock usb cable --> dac usb input --> rca out to amp
  Now it is macbook pro --> stock usb cable --> DI --> dac coax input --> rca out to amp
   
  The improvement was not earth-shaking but a step up against connecting the usb cable from my mac directly into my dac (the USB implementation in my DAC may not be as good as that in the DI).
   
  V-Link usb/spdif converter looks promising too. You can keep an eye on it. I still feel that the DI without PSU represents a good buy for its price.


----------



## MikeW

Somestranger did you say you where using a backup UPS for your PC? In my experiance this has always been a pretty huge no-no for computer audio. I was/am a firm beliver in UPS for office and critical use, and always used them in the past, as soon as I became audiophile I had to give them up. They do nasty things to audio.. maybe you have a really high end "In Line" model, i don't know, but most 300$ or less ups you get from retail stores don't fall into that catagory.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





uelover said:


> Yes it was macbook pro --> stock usb cable --> dac usb input --> rca out to amp
> Now it is macbook pro --> stock usb cable --> DI --> dac coax input --> rca out to amp
> 
> The improvement was not earth-shaking but a step up against connecting the usb cable from my mac directly into my dac (the USB implementation in my DAC may not be as good as that in the DI).


 

 I have found the same thing.  My Zhaolu, Constantine and Stello dacs all have onboard usb implementations that were inferior to their optical or coaxial inputs.  My last dac, the NorthStar, has no usb implementation and therefore needs one.  I tried a Blue Circle Thingee, it was pretty good so I'm still using it. I thought I'd upgrade to a HiFace because it was asynchronous, but that was a mistake.  IMHO the HiFace was lousy.....  So here I am checking out the DI again.
   
  How's the optical out of your Macbook?
   
  USG


----------



## Baird GoW

Quote: 





mikew said:


> Somestranger did you say you where using a backup UPS for your PC? In my experiance this has always been a pretty huge no-no for computer audio. I was/am a firm beliver in UPS for office and critical use, and always used them in the past, as soon as I became audiophile I had to give them up. They do nasty things to audio.. maybe you have a really high end "In Line" model, i don't know, but most 300$ or less ups you get from retail stores don't fall into that catagory.


 
  Above:umm no... i said that. he doesn't use a ups. I tried pluging it into my filter but didn't hear a difference.
   
  Below: Ummm... I am using balanced HE-6.
  
  Quote: 





uelover said:


> StageDAC runs on dual-mono mode just that it outputs to unbalanced rca out. If you use NFB-10 with its rca output instead of xlr, you will get the same thing - balanced DAC into a non-balanced output.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





baird gow said:


> Ummm... I am using balanced HE-6.


 

 Hmm I was trying to relate the degree of perceivable improvement in PSU accordance to the gear we use. While I admit that balanced set up is better, I don't think that a balanced set up alone, holding all else more or less equal, will amplify the improvement due to PSU by a large margin. I am running a short 0.5m interconnect too.
   
  Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> I have found the same thing.  My Zhaolu, Constantine and Stello dacs all have onboard usb implementations that were inferior to their optical or coaxial inputs.  My last dac, the NorthStar, has no usb implementation and therefore needs one.  I tried a Blue Circle Thingee, it was pretty good so I'm still using it. I thought I'd upgrade to a HiFace because it was asynchronous, but that was a mistake.  IMHO the HiFace was lousy.....  So here I am checking out the DI again.
> 
> How's the optical out of your Macbook?
> 
> USG


 

 I have not heard hiface myself so I am in no position to compare it with DI. 
   
  The optical output on my macbook was better than its usb output when connected straight to the DAC. In terms of clarity, optical and DI are both very close. But in terms of the overall presentation, DI sounded fuller and smoother. Optical sounded a little lean and I have no idea why is that the case.
   
  Nonetheless, I could live perfectly with either optical or with DI input. The crux of the setup still lies in the DAC.


----------



## Baird GoW

Quote: 





uelover said:


> StageDAC runs on dual-mono mode just that it outputs to unbalanced rca out. If you use NFB-10 with its rca output instead of xlr, you will get the same thing - balanced DAC into a non-balanced output.


 

 The NFB-10ES is 8 channel where as yours is dual mono... there is a big difference (unless it's dual mono differential... but if that were the case it would have balanced outputs).
 Also the gain modules on the NFB-10ES are balanced and then output single ended, so the benefit is still there (kingwa says so himself and I'm totally able to hear it).
 Also the NFB-10 might be better value coming from China compared to the stage dac from europe.


----------



## ninjikiran

If your going to call people out for understanding, at the very least understand my post....
   
  I did not call it placebo, in short I am saying trusting someones perception is a dangerous thing.
  
  Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Everyone that has tried the power supply has said it is an upgrade, only differing in our opinions of the magnitude of change. I don't know why you're trying to call this a placebo effect. Have you even tried it?
> 
> I've never heard the Stagedac, but I think you would be pleasantly surprised if you tried the NFB-10ES. The ESS9018's transparency makes every little tweak like the power supply shine through. I'm more saying that people with low/midfi systems are probably not going to notice a difference.
> 
> Something people may want to note is that I'm using the power supply hooked up to my audio-gd power filter's -70dB socket so that may increase the apparent differences I'm hearing.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





baird gow said:


> The NFB-10ES is 8 channel where as yours is dual mono... there is a big difference (unless it's dual mono differential... but if that were the case it would have balanced outputs).
> Also the gain modules on the NFB-10ES are balanced and then output single ended, so the benefit is still there (kingwa says so himself and I'm totally able to hear it).
> Also the NFB-10 might be better value coming from China compared to the stage dac from europe.


 

 I am not trying to convince you that stagedac is better than 10es or vice versa nor whether audio gd product are of better value because they come from China.
   
  What I am saying is that the degree of resolution between DACs of the mid range are not vastly different, much less for one DAC to be able to reveal how great the addition of PSU would bring than the other. I do have my own doubt as to how your system will be able to reflect each little tweaks you make to your power supply as it sounds to me that you have a dirty mains power line at home.
   
   
  Anyway ninjikiran, somestranger26 and Baird GoW are the same person.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





uelover said:


> Anyway ninjikiran, somestranger26 and Baird GoW are the same person.


 

  
  What do you mean?


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> What do you mean?


 

  
  Ahh I realized that the sentence could be interpreted in both ways.
   
  I was telling ninjikiran that 'somestranger26' and 'Baird GoW' are the same person posting in this thread under two different user ids.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





uelover said:


> What I am saying is that *the degree of resolution between DACs of the mid range are not vastly different,* much less for one DAC to be able to reveal how great the addition of PSU would bring than the other. I do have my own doubt as to how your system will be able to reflect each little tweaks you make to your power supply as* it sounds to me that you have a dirty mains power line at home.*
> 
> 
> *Anyway ninjikiran, somestranger26 and Baird GoW are the same person.*


 
  Well, the DAC-19MK3 is considered midrange but I notice a _massive_ improvement with the NFB-10ES. Also, who _doesn't_ have dirty mains power? Unless you have a dedicated circuit in a less than urban environment you're going to have some powerline noise...

 Hahahahahaha. Report "me" to the mods then if you think so.


----------



## Baird GoW

Quote: 





uelover said:


> Anyway ninjikiran, somestranger26 and Baird GoW are the same person.


 

 Well I just posted my set up on here ( http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/397869/pictures-of-your-computer-rigs-post-them-here/3510#post_7314120 ) I'll see if i can talk somestranger into posting his so you can see we different people.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote:


baird gow said:


> Well I just posted my set up on here ( http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/397869/pictures-of-your-computer-rigs-post-them-here/3510#post_7314120 ) I'll see if i can talk somestranger into posting his so you can see we different people.


 
  I don't really see the need to prove myself to someone who is making baseless accusations and can't even tell our diametrically opposed writing styles apart, but fine. Here.


----------



## uelover

Baird Gow demanded a public apology on my part that I have wrongly accused them of being the same person.
   
  I thereby apologize and retract my claim that he and somestranger26 are the same person.
   
  Nonetheless, this has nothing to do with this thread. For the sake of everyone and potential DI buyers who wish to obtain more information through this thread, this pointless argument that leads to no definitive outcome should cease.
   
  PS: I am sorry but I *did not* report the both of you to the moderators in the first place.


----------



## tim3320070

OMG, great thread turn guys.
  On a completely unrelated note (apparently), the clock upgrade really impresses me. Female vocals are really in my ear, so to speak. Alison Krauss seems to be over my shoulder singing to me. It was very nice before but there is a definite intimacy now and I can't attribute it to anything but this new hardware.
  Continue the "discussion".


----------



## Baird GoW

Apology accepted. Anyway I just tried the original clock since I never did, and I must say unless it needs burn in or something the new clock is much better. I also tried not upsampling for the first time and I like upsampling more.


----------



## lordearl

Just plugged in my DI and listened for a bit to some Peter Gabriel after an hour.
  My previous (now sidelined) unit is the AB Systems modified Teralink.
   
  The DI absolutely wipes the floor with the Teralink.  The sound spectrum is much fuller, and the definition in the sound is phenomenal.
   
  I haven't tried the upsampling yet.
   
  Will post more thoughts after a decent 10 hours or so of burn in.


----------



## uelover

I went to try 96khz upsampling mode again. Doesn't like it. Instruments sounded smudged.
   
  On my setup the sound is most natural when I leave all the upsampling job to the DAC: Mac (Decibel/Audirvana/iTunes @ 44.1khz) --> DI (44.1khz) --> DAC (4 times upsampling)
   
  I have tried various permutation such that the final sampling rate would arrive at 192khz, e.g. 1) upsampling to 96khz @ DI and 2 times upsampling @ DAC, 2) 96khz upsampling @ Mac, pass-thru on DI and 2 times upsampling on DAC.
   
  Nonetheless, instruments just don't sound natural, with the string instruments losing its weight and vocals losing its presence and definition. The overall music nonetheless sounded less digital, being smoother.
   
   
  Just curious, for 44.1khz 16bit standard redbook tracks, what sampling modes do you guys set on your computer as well as your DAC?


----------



## Denys

Kingwa told me that using the DI without upsampling is useless.... At least with the clock upgrade...
   
  So I am using mine upsample at 96khz...... and as the DAC I use also accepts 96 khz, the sound is more clearer I believe than before...
   
  But it might be a good idea to compare with the 16/44...
   
  I honestly upsampled it because of Kingwa's suggestion.
   
  Denys


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





denys said:


> Kingwa told me that using the DI without upsampling is useless.... At least with the clock upgrade...
> 
> So I am using mine upsample at 96khz...... and as the DAC I use also accepts 96 khz, the sound is more clearer I believe than before...
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah I get what you mean. I got the TXCO clock too so I was trying hard to like the sound coming from upsampling if not the clock would go to waste.
   
  Nonetheless I prefer the non-upsampling mode more so I was trying to figure out ways to make the upsampling sound better.


----------



## haloxt

Burning in the clock does help a little with the smudging. I left it on for 250 hours before really sitting down and comparing no upsampling vs 96khz upsampling with two different dac's, a dac9mk3 with dsp-1, and a sparrow. I think its main strength is how it affects vocals, which I agree with Tim about. Leading and trailing edges get a little rounded, and also low volume detail don't quite bloom as subtly and nuanced as no upsampling. All of these things I think gives a slight feeling of blurry background instruments, but a more vivid foreground, or at least a more "engaging" or "alive" foreground. I think it's the kind of perspective you would have if you were at a live concert, more enraptured by the main instrument than background. So if you listen to songs that rely heavily upon background or ambiance, upsampling does seem worse than no upsampling. But songs where you are supposed to focus on the main instrument, upsampling is really interesting to listen to imo.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> Burning in the clock does help a little with the smudging. I left it on for 250 hours before really sitting down and comparing no upsampling vs 96khz upsampling with two different dac's, a dac9mk3 with dsp-1, and a sparrow. I think its main strength is how it affects vocals, which I agree with Tim about. Leading and trailing edges get a little rounded, and also low volume detail don't quite bloom as subtly and nuanced as no upsampling. All of these things I think gives a slight feeling of blurry background instruments, but a more vivid foreground, or at least a more "engaging" or "alive" foreground. I think it's the kind of perspective you would have if you were at a live concert, more enraptured by the main instrument than background. So if you listen to songs that rely heavily upon background or ambiance, upsampling does seem worse than no upsampling. But songs where you are supposed to focus on the main instrument, upsampling is really interesting to listen to imo.


 

 I seem to get a sound that is totally the opposite of what you have described. Maybe my txco clock is faulty?
   
  I had it burned in for 100hours. Will let it burn in more.
   
  I listen mainly to vocals and jazz, occasionally some instrumentals. No rock, no metal, no band, no pop.
   
  Most of the songs require me to focus on just the vocals or just one instrument. The articulations, especially foreground, were just not as well defined and clear as in the case of no upsampling.
  It is the side effect of having the 'edges' being too rounded off.


----------



## haloxt

I think your last post and my last one are pretty similar. I agree that "articulation" and "definition" is less accurate with upsampling, namely the rounded edges, but at the same time I think upsampling does add some kind of vividness or life-like characteristic, but difficult to put my finger on exactly what. I do disagree when you said upsampling makes vocals seem less present, and stringed instruments lose weight. I think vocals become more present, stringed instruments more full-bodied, but a little artificially-induced coloration, most notably in the slight rounding of edges.


----------



## Subsequence

Should be receiving my DI+psu this week, also ordered the clock upgrade but that wasn't in stock so that will be sent later. Btw i'm a bit confused, the TCXO clock is a different clock then the tentlabs right? 
  If so i might just cancel the TCXO and get the tentlabs or both and play around with them, it's not like they're very expensive


----------



## Denys

Quote: 





subsequence said:


> Should be receiving my DI+psu this week, also ordered the clock upgrade but that wasn't in stock so that will be sent later. Btw i'm a bit confused, the TCXO clock is a different clock then the tentlabs right?
> If so i might just cancel the TCXO and get the tentlabs or both and play around with them, it's not like they're very expensive


 

 You will only get the upgraded clock...not both....at least this is what I got....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Denys


----------



## Subsequence

Nope i ordered from ampcity and they didnt have the upgraded clock in stock and offered to send that later.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





subsequence said:


> Should be receiving my DI+psu this week, also ordered the clock upgrade but that wasn't in stock so that will be sent later. Btw i'm a bit confused, the TCXO clock is a different clock then the tentlabs right?
> If so i might just cancel the TCXO and get the tentlabs or both and play around with them, it's not like they're very expensive


 
  Yes they're different clocks but compatible if you purchase the right tentlabs one.
    
  Quote:


denys said:


> You will only get the upgraded clock...not both....at least this is what I got....


 
   
   What, are they going to send his digital interface with no clock so he can't use it?
   
  Quote:


denys said:


> Kingwa told me that using the DI without upsampling is useless.... At least with the clock upgrade...


 


  Umm... no. What Kingwa means is that the clock upgrade is only used when in upsampling mode. He isn't saying the DI is useless w/o upsampling, he's saying the clock upgrade is.
   
  Quote:


uelover said:


> I went to try 96khz upsampling mode again. Doesn't like it. Instruments sounded smudged.
> 
> On my setup the sound is most natural when I leave all the upsampling job to the DAC: Mac (Decibel/Audirvana/iTunes @ 44.1khz) --> DI (44.1khz) --> DAC (4 times upsampling)
> 
> ...


 
   
  Upsampling and oversampling are different things. Your DAC is oversampling, the DI is upsampling. To answer your question, my digital interface gets whatever sample rate and bit depth the source material is at, upsampled to 96khz at the DI, then upsampled (not oversampled) to 864kHz at my DAC.


----------



## Subsequence

Right i'll have a look on that tentlabs site, hope i get better service as a fellow dutchman


----------



## Denys

Quote:


denys said:


> You will only get the upgraded clock...not both....at least this is what I got....


   
   What, are they going to send his digital interface with no clock so he can't use it?
   
No, I meant he's not gonna get both clocks !!!!!! The regular & the upgraded one......only the upgraded
   
  Quote:


denys said:


> Kingwa told me that using the DI without upsampling is useless.... At least with the clock upgrade...


 


  Umm... no. What Kingwa means is that the clock upgrade is only used when in upsampling mode. He isn't saying the DI is useless w/o upsampling, he's saying the clock upgrade is.
   
This is exactly what I meant....Sorry if I wasn't clear....
   
Denys


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





denys said:


> No, I meant he's not gonna get both clocks !!!!!! The regular & the upgraded one......only the upgraded


 

 Yeah, but they are sending him a stock DI and then the upgraded clock later. He'd get both.


----------



## Subsequence

Actually yes i will be getting both clocks, if you read my posts you will know that i didn't order from audio-gd directly. And they only have the version without the upgraded clock and offered to send the TCXO after delivery which i accepted.
   
  No need to get worked up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  EDIT: i'm too slow hehe


----------



## Denys

Ooooppsss...
   
  OK guys.....anyway... Just hope you like yours like I like mine...
   
  Funny, cause I could not make it work in my bedroom as the laptop I use makes noise through the USB port (cheap laptop that is...) so I tried in the living room where I do have a good desktop and immediately I heard an improve in sound quality....so I kept the use of the M2tech in my bedroom with the REF5 and use the DI in the living room.
   
  Denys


----------



## SemiAudiophile

The stock clock is 24.576 Mhz while the upgrade is 80 Mhz right? Looking at the website they both say TCXO which makes it rather confusing. I asked Edwin not to solder the upgrade in, so hopefully I'll be able to test out the stock clock before installing the upgrade.


----------



## somestranger26

Same 24.576MHz. The 80M clock pictured is for the NFB-10ES.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

so the stock clock would also be 80Mhz for NFB-10ES? so looking at the pictures, the upgrade is just the bigger looking clock, but runs at the same speed?


----------



## somestranger26

Yes x 2. The upgrade clock is for lower jitter.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> I do disagree when you said upsampling makes vocals seem less present, and stringed instruments lose weight. I think vocals become more present, stringed instruments more full-bodied, but a little artificially-induced coloration, most notably in the slight rounding of edges.


 

 Yeah this is why I said that my findings is the opposite of yours, at least on my system =)
   
  Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Upsampling and oversampling are different things. Your DAC is oversampling, the DI is upsampling. To answer your question, my digital interface gets whatever sample rate and bit depth the source material is at, upsampled to 96khz at the DI, then upsampled (not oversampled) to 864kHz at my DAC.


 
   
  Thanks for the information and the correction.
  Have you tried comparing 96khz with non-upsampling on DI without any upsampling on your source and on your DAC?


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





denys said:


> Funny, cause I could not make it work in my bedroom as the laptop I use makes noise through the USB port (cheap laptop that is...) so I tried in the living room where I do have a good desktop and immediately I heard an improve in sound quality....so I kept the use of the M2tech in my bedroom with the REF5 and use the DI in the living room.


 

 Maybe I should sell you my PSU XDD


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *uelover* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Thanks for the information and the correction.
> Have you tried comparing 96khz with non-upsampling on DI without any upsampling on your source and on your DAC?


 
  I prefer 96khz upsample to native on the DI for most material. I never use software upsampling, and the upsampling on my DAC is intrinsic to the ESS9018 and cannot be disabled.


----------



## tim3320070

My question is if I am setting my audio settings (in Manage Audio Devices) to 24/96 in Win7, am I having the computer do something or am I just setting the upper limit the computer allows? What should I be setting it at?
  I have the DI set to 96.


----------



## somestranger26

You should not change it from the defaults other than making sure 44.1, 48, and 96khz are all checked.


----------



## tim3320070

Defaults say 16/44.1. Does it limit output to that? Why would I not allow 24/96 setting?
  Forgive my ignorance.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> I prefer 96khz upsample to native on the DI for most material. I never use software upsampling, and the upsampling on my DAC is intrinsic to the ESS9018 and cannot be disabled.


 


  I wonder if there is a downside to upsampling twice?


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> Defaults say 16/44.1. Does it limit output to that? Why would I not allow 24/96 setting?
> Forgive my ignorance.


 
  Because if you set it to 24/96 and you're not bypassing the windows mixer with something like WASAPI, it will upsample everything to 24/96 before being output.


----------



## Subsequence

I just received my DI+psu, one of the reasons i wanted it was to solve a groundloop problem since it's supposded to do that but it still has that problem. Everything is grounded in my setup so maybe my DI is defective? 
  It should have the spdif output isolated right? I have the A version with the switch set to usb and only usb connected.
   
  It does sound better but still i'd like to get rid of this groundloop problem


----------



## Subsequence

I ordered an USB2ISO device, lets see how that goes...
   
  Man this sounds amazing, it just tickles my ears


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





subsequence said:


> I just received my DI+psu, one of the reasons i wanted it was to solve a groundloop problem since it's supposded to do that but it still has that problem. Everything is grounded in my setup so maybe my DI is defective?
> It should have the spdif output isolated right?* I have the A version with the switch set to usb and only usb connected.*
> 
> It does sound better but still i'd like to get rid of this groundloop problem


 

 Set it to DC not USB power...


----------



## Subsequence

I have set it to DC power and  if i set it to usb power the humming is even louder, i was talking about the source switch between coax and usb to ilustrate that it can't come from groundloop through the coax input(which is also not connected). I should've been more clear i guess.
  Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Set it to DC not USB power...


----------



## PhaedrusX

i'm surprised no one seems bothered by the seeming lack of bitperfect output from the DI. i always thought of this function as the absolute baseline feature for a D to D device. am i missing something?
   
  there have also been some emphatic statements elsewhere that the DI is not asynchronous, though Audio-gd advertises it as such. Can anyone confirm either way?


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





subsequence said:


> I have set it to DC power and  if i set it to usb power the humming is even louder, i was talking about the source switch between coax and usb to ilustrate that it can't come from groundloop through the coax input(which is also not connected). I should've been more clear i guess.


 
  Ah, well that's odd; I've never heard of anyone having a ground loop with the DI. I would email kingwa and ask for his advice.
   
  Quote: 





phaedrusx said:


> i'm surprised no one seems bothered by the seeming lack of bitperfect output from the DI. i always thought of this function as the absolute baseline feature for a D to D device. am i missing something?
> 
> there have also been some emphatic statements elsewhere that the DI is not asynchronous, though Audio-gd advertises it as such. Can anyone confirm either way?


 
  Not an issue for me, I'm not listening to HDCD or 5.1 DTS soundtracks or anything and my DAC doesn't support such formats anyway. For 2-ch music, which is the main purpose of the DI, I don't see the need of having bitperfect.
   
  I've not seen any evidence that the DI is not asynchronous.


----------



## sorue

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> I've not seen any evidence that the DI is not asynchronous.


 
  The tenor TE7022 chip used in the DI is adaptive, not asynchronous. It's been said a couple of times in this thread


----------



## PhaedrusX

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Not an issue for me, I'm not listening to HDCD or 5.1 DTS soundtracks or anything and my DAC doesn't support such formats anyway. For 2-ch music, which is the main purpose of the DI, I don't see the need of having bitperfect.


 

_bitperfect_ refers to "the ability to output a digital data stream from an SPDIF port to a receiver (DAC) without experiencing any loss or degradation of the signal in the process."
   
  its benefits are not limited to HDCD or DTS. its just as relevant in any 2-Channel system. HDCD and DTS are just the easiest ways to test if a signal is bitperfect.
   


  Quote: 





sorue said:


> The tenor TE7022 chip used in the DI is adaptive, not asynchronous. It's been said a couple of times in this thread


 


  well if this is true, Audio-gd needs to edit their web page.


----------



## sorue

To clear up what i said, the tenor usb receiver is adaptive. But the DSP3 processing is probably async in nature. Two different things, but yea i guess you could say the DI on the whole is async. My bad, wasn't thinking straight earlier on


----------



## Subsequence

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Ah, well that's odd; I've never heard of anyone having a ground loop with the DI. I would email kingwa and ask for his advice.


 

 Yeah it's strange, it's definatly coming through the usb cable since if i disconnect that it goes away. I contacted him yesterday but they probably don't answer emails on saturday and i can't blame them seeing how busy they are.


----------



## haloxt

I'll send an email to audio-gd about that asynchronous mistake.


----------



## Patu

Does the tranport have to be async for the signal to be bit perfect? I thought that we only speak about bit perfect when the signal leaves computer (WASAPI, Kernel Streaming and other output methods).


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





phaedrusx said:


> _bitperfect_ refers to "the ability to output a digital data stream from an SPDIF port to a receiver (DAC) without experiencing any loss or degradation of the signal in the process."
> 
> its benefits are not limited to HDCD or DTS. its just as relevant in any 2-Channel system. HDCD and DTS are just the easiest ways to test if a signal is bitperfect.


 
  Well then I suppose you're missing everyone's opinion that the digital interface is an improvement over most other spdif converters and is not causing people to "experience any loss or degradation of the signal in the process." I provided the HDCD and DTS examples because those are things that won't work with the DI because it isn't "bit perfect."


----------



## erjifan

When I sent email to Kingwa in Jan, he said the only device with USB from AGD using asynchronous process is DI. None of the DAC with USB has async.


----------



## PhaedrusX

Quote: 





patu said:


> Does the tranport have to be async for the signal to be bit perfect? I thought that we only speak about bit perfect when the signal leaves computer (WASAPI, Kernel Streaming and other output methods).


 

 bitperfect is just concerned with the signal, while asynch is concerned with the timing of it. as far as i understand it, one isn't required for the other. they are just two halves of a whole.
   
  i'm assuming the main goal of outputting a bitperfect signal from the computer is so that the DAC will receive the complete, original signal (all the bits). whether the converter allows the pass through of a bitperfect stream, or alters it along the way, is the question i'm curious about.
   


  Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Well then I suppose you're missing everyone's opinion that the digital interface is an improvement over most other spdif converters and is not causing people to "experience any loss or degradation of the signal in the process." I provided the HDCD and DTS examples because those are things that won't work with the DI because it isn't "bit perfect."


 

 and i suppose you're missing the point of what "bitperfect" means. it has nothing to do with "everyone's opinion" about "improvements." it's an objective, measurable, technical feature.
   


  Quote: 





erjifan said:


> When I sent email to Kingwa in Jan, he said the only device with USB from AGD using asynchronous process is DI. None of the DAC with USB has async.


 

 hopefully that clears things up, though it would be nice if he chimed in here to confirm and/or explain.


----------



## somestranger26

You seem to be the one that doesn't get it, Phaedrus. I am perfectly aware of what bit-perfect means.
   
  The whole point of buying the digital interface is to improve sound quality, and you're wondering why nobody is complaining about the lack of bitperfect. It's because it sounds better than simply using the usb input on a dac with a bitperfect output from your computer, so bitperfect truly means nothing unless you need to pass through something like DTS or HDCD.


----------



## PhaedrusX

yeah ok.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





phaedrusx said:


> yeah ok.


 
  Don't ask a question if you are going to be an ass to those trying to answer.
   
  Quote: 





phaedrusx said:


> i'm assuming the main goal of outputting a bitperfect signal from the computer is so that the DAC will receive the complete, original signal (all the bits). whether the converter allows the pass through of a bitperfect stream, or alters it along the way, is the question i'm curious about.


 
  I already answered your question.


----------



## crumpler

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Don't ask a question if you are going to act be an ass to those trying to answer.
> 
> I already answered your question.


 

 Just came across this little write-up while i was doing some research on this awesome product i bought a while ago as my portable solution for now and thought it might be interesting especially to those who are somewhat disappointed that asynchronous USB transfer isn't implemented in the Audio-GD range.
   

   
  The product in question is the DACport and information is extracted directly from www.centrance.com. The makers of the DACPort are credible members of the hifi community and have licensed their USB implementations know-how to many prominent high-end audio manufacturers. 
   
  So in the same fashion as people are only/more concerned with the actual DAC chip used and not actual onboard implementation of the DAC as a whole, people who feel they might be missing out just because their DACs are implemented with asynchronous USB transfer should rethink their stand.
   
  P.S. somestranger26: Great to see you're really enjoying the Audio-GD products. I've been reading that you've been enjoying the NFB10 with the HE-6s? Oh well, what could have been!


----------



## ninjikiran

The point of an interface should be an unseen, unheard link between two points.


----------



## Patu

I received Russ Andrews A/C link connection cable between the PSU and DI today. It works and it's much thicker and higher quality than the stock cable, which I'm afraid of even touch because it seems so fragile. I haven't compared the sound quality but maybe I will later on. It also seems to connect better, meaning that it won't rock at all in the sockets. 

http://www.russandrews.com/product.asp?lookup=1&region=UK&currency=GBP&pf_id=1807&customer_id=PAA2170038411137UHNXSUFKELTKFKZS


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Frustration!  I got my lcd2's recently and I bring them to the office and I'm only getting one channel playback.  I'm not sure why but I suspect the digital interface is at fault  of course I don't have other gear or cables to test with.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote:


mr.sneis said:


> Frustration!  I got my lcd2's recently and I bring them to the office and I'm only getting one channel playback.  I'm not sure why but I suspect the digital interface is at fault  of course I don't have other gear or cables to test with.


 

 I highly doubt it is the digital interface. I don't understand why you're blaming it without doing any testing.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

I am also having the same problem with only one channel playback using usb input, haven't tried coax yet.
   
  Also, does anyone know the difference between the 24.576 mhz vs 80 mhz clock? Mines have the 24.576 mhz, but I specifically said I'll be using it with the NFB-10ES. 
   
  I'm kind of pissed and they could have at least provided some jumpers for the digital interface.
   
  edit: coax does work fine. waiting for reply from them to hopefully get this straightened out.


----------



## haloxt

The 24mhz clock is for the DI, 80mhz for the NFB-10ES, not interchangeable. Did you want the 80mhz clock for use in a NFB-10? Because it wouldn't work in the DI. Audio-gd sent me way too many jumpers lol, give me an address and I'll mail you some jumpers.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Quote:
> 
> I highly doubt it is the digital interface. I don't understand why you're blaming it without doing any testing.


 


 I'm not trying to slam the DI or Audio GD.  I also can't do any testing because I'm at the office away from my beautiful cache of cables, adapters, and other such gear.  I am suspicious of the DI because the other components in my chain are pretty rock solid peices but you're right I don't know yet and it's bugging me.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> The 24mhz clock is for the DI, 80mhz for the NFB-10ES, not interchangeable. Did you want the 80mhz clock for use in a NFB-10? Because it wouldn't work in the DI. Audio-gd sent me way too many jumpers lol, give me an address and I'll mail you some jumpers.


 


  I see...so we're talking about 2 different clock upgrades here. That makes sense now, thanks. 
   
  It does sound quite nice out of the box using coax though...just wished that usb would work also. 
   
  edit: I take that back, they did give me jumpers, hidden in one of the bags somewhere.


----------



## lordearl

After a weekend of burning in the DI, I've put the jumpers in on the upgraded clock and got it going at 24/96 - left it for 10 or so hours yesterday and all I can say today is "wow!".  It's a huge difference over the stock (non-upsampling) mode.  The volume level seems slightly quieter & the sound is marginally recessed, but the evenness across the sound spectrum and accuracy of the details are fantastic!!


----------



## Baird GoW

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> Audio-gd sent me way too many jumpers lol


 

 Same, I think they sent me 20 if I remember correctly.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





baird gow said:


> Same, I think they sent me 20 if I remember correctly.


 

 I thought that mine with 15 was bad enough because I just couldn't find enough place on DI to slot them all in! Lol.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

I found out what the culprit was. Balance setting was set all the way to the left for some reason in output settings on my macbook. USB works fine and everything is all good now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I got to say though with just a couple hours with this device I'm already quite impressed. I think it depends on the recording, but Norah Jones sounds especially good upsampled to 96khz. 
   
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  This really should be called a "pre-dac filter" of some sort. This has become a very important component in my system and without doubt one of the best audio purchases I ever made. The difference is not subtle as I expected, but a very audible improvement.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

I found my culprit as well.  It's the LCD2, or more specifically it appears to be a bad cable 
   
  *edit* definitely appears to be a cold solder joint in the LCD2 cable!  Will see if Audeze can do a swap for me otherwise may have to break out the trusty old iron.


----------



## notThinking

Quote: 





crumpler said:


> Just came across this little write-up while i was doing some research on this awesome product i bought a while ago as my portable solution for now and thought it might be interesting especially to those who are somewhat disappointed that asynchronous USB transfer isn't implemented in the Audio-GD range.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I've owned gear that uses licensed technology from this firm. I have to say that it was cheep scrap with bonked driver that needed surgery to install on windows system.


----------



## crumpler

Quote: 





notthinking said:


> I've owned gear that uses licensed technology from this firm. I have to say that it was cheep scrap with bonked driver that needed surgery to install on windows system.


 

 That's the first time i've heard about any such case. My DACport has worked flawlessly on my Mac tho. Mind disclosing what product exactly did you buy from which of the licensed manufacturer that gave you such problems? 
   
  Please do send me a PM if it's inconvenient for open disclosure.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Quote: 





baird gow said:


> Same, I think they sent me 20 if I remember correctly.


 

 My DI has NO jumpers, I have dip switches in place of, is there a specific reason why?
   
  Is there a generally recommended settings for these?  I've left all mine to off stock position.


----------



## mmlogic

Just got my version b DI + power supply, after few hours of AB test with my 2010 Mac mini's optical out, I have to say I'm a little disappointed, but in the mean time relieved. I'm disappointed because I can't hear any difference between optical and DI with BNC coax, I'm relieved because now I know my mini has a decent optical out. So for those who use new Mac mini, keep it simple, stick with optical, you don't need a USB/SPDIF convertor.
   
  PS: my DAC/amp is Audio-gd NFB-10ES, my headphone is HD650 with balanced cable.


----------



## lordearl

mmlogic - leave it for a few days, there is big difference, it just takes time ; )


----------



## somestranger26

Quote:  


> Just got my version b DI + power supply, after few hours of AB test with my 2010 Mac mini's optical out, I have to say I'm a little disappointed, but in the mean time relieved. I'm disappointed because I can't hear any difference between optical and DI with BNC coax, I'm relieved because now I know my mini has a decent optical out. So for those who use new Mac mini, keep it simple, stick with optical, you don't need a USB/SPDIF convertor.
> 
> PS: my DAC/amp is Audio-gd NFB-10ES, my headphone is HD650 with balanced cable.


 

  

 And how old is your NFB-10ES? It needs 300+ hours of burn-in, and the DI needs a fair bit too. Be patient.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





mmlogic said:


> Just got my version b DI + power supply, after few hours of AB test with my 2010 Mac mini's optical out, I have to say I'm a little disappointed, but in the mean time relieved. I'm disappointed because I can't hear any difference between optical and DI with BNC coax, I'm relieved because now I know my mini has a decent optical out. So for those who use new Mac mini, keep it simple, stick with optical, you don't need a USB/SPDIF convertor.


 


> PS: my DAC/amp is Audio-gd NFB-10ES, my headphone is HD650 with balanced cable.


 


  You're in good company.  There was a case where another fellow had a similar Audio GD product and wasn't able to distinguish between the battery operated HiFace and the optical out of his mac book. 
   
  On the other hand, it is good to have a good usb converter around for laptops, netbooks or computers that don't have optical or coaxial from the mb.
   
  Regarding *"burn in"*......  it's a controversial topic.  I have never experienced any noticeable form of "burn in" (except maybe in headphones where there are actually moving parts).  Further discussions of this subject can be found in the *Sound Science* forum.
   
   
  USG
   
  As an interesting experiment, why not make some recordings from the output of your headphone amp now, and compare them to recordings of the same material at the same output level after a few hundred hours and see if you can hear a difference.  It would help substantiate that "burn in" has actually occurred.


----------



## FrankWong

Although I2S doesn't have the problems of SPDIF as regards the clock being embedded with the data & it's recovery, it has as many issues as SPDIF (If not more) with regard to cables such as impedance issues & length of cable, etc. So sometimes it's just a different can of worms. =(


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Because if you set it to 24/96 and you're not bypassing the windows mixer with something like WASAPI, it will upsample everything to 24/96 before being output.


 

  
  I have tried both and the 24/96 setting (vs default) in Windows is a little less noisy and has a little less etch to the sound. It's subtle. I don't know or care why.


----------



## lordearl

Agree - there is a subtle difference.  I'm using a non-oversampling DAC so that I can hear EXACTLY what the DI upsampling algorith is doing, and it is not a lot.  On that basis, I'd suggest to anyone that it is best to change this link in any audio chain LAST.


----------



## notThinking

Your interest might suggest you have interest with this company? Line6 are the company we struggled more than a year with before we kicking all they're products out of the 'studio'.
  
  Quote: 





crumpler said:


> That's the first time i've heard about any such case. My DACport has worked flawlessly on my Mac tho. Mind disclosing what product exactly did you buy from which of the licensed manufacturer that gave you such problems?
> 
> Please do send me a PM if it's inconvenient for open disclosure.


----------



## crumpler

Quote: 





notthinking said:


> Your interest might suggest you have interest with this company? Line6 are the company we struggled more than a year with before we kicking all they're products out of the 'studio'.


 

 I've no interest in CEntrance other than being a great fan of their products so far and in that respect, i surely ain't the only one in this forum. 
   
  Did you mean to say the products by Line6 which were using licensed technology from CEntrance did not leave up to expectations and that you had to junk them from the studio?
   
  Just googled the collaboration between the 2 companies and i do see that they might have worked together on the Line6 pocketPOD and to be honest, without having a first hand experience with said product, i'm hesitant to condemn CEntrance just because they might have worked on a product that you felt failed to live up to expectations.
   
  On the other hand tho, i can assure you i really am enjoying the CEntance DACport. It does exactly what it says it would do and customer service has been nothing short of outstanding.


----------



## spookygonk

Strangely enough, the same thing happened when I plugged my Musiland Monitor 02 into my netbook for the first time. Took me way too long to work out what was wrong.

 Quote:


semiaudiophile said:


> I found out what the culprit was. Balance setting was set all the way to the left for some reason in output settings on my macbook. USB works fine and everything is all good now.


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





lordearl said:


> Agree - there is a subtle difference.  I'm using a non-oversampling DAC so that I can hear EXACTLY what the DI upsampling algorith is doing, and it is not a lot.  On that basis, I'd suggest to anyone that it is best to change this link in any audio chain LAST.


 


  I was actually referring to the Windows setting, not the DI. But I do have the DI at 96 as well.


----------



## notThinking

I'm sorry if you read that in my post. I was just balancing your first reply where readers might understand the text as anyone doing business with these folks automatic will end up with a good product. In the context as any Red Book CD player should be equally bad or good course they lisence the same technology as Mark Levinson do to make they product work.
   
  Quote: 





crumpler said:


> I've no interest in CEntrance other than being a great fan of their products so far and in that respect, i surely ain't the only one in this forum.
> 
> Did you mean to say the products by Line6 which were using licensed technology from CEntrance did not leave up to expectations and that you had to junk them from the studio?
> 
> ...


----------



## crumpler

Quote: 





notthinking said:


> I'm sorry if you read that in my post. I was just balancing your first reply where readers might understand the text as anyone doing business with these folks automatic will end up with a good product. In the context as any Red Book CD player should be equally bad or good course they lisence the same technology as Mark Levinson do to make they product work.


 

 No love lost here. Point taken!


----------



## Alexdad54

Forgive my confusion but I can't seem to get this straight in my head, must be age....
  I'm planning on trying out an EE Minimax DAC to compare it with my NOS Havana. The Minimax can play 24/96 files  so do I need to set the jumpers inside  my DI to the specific setting to allow this or will the DI pass the files through without any re-configuration inside the unit?


----------



## ulyses

It would be great if some one post recommended settings for both computer and digital interface (upsamling rates, foobar wasapi out bit rate etc.)


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Quote: 





alexdad54 said:


> do I need to set the jumpers inside  my DI to the specific setting to allow this or will the DI pass the files through without any re-configuration inside the unit?


 

 Yes, if you want to upsample. 
   
  By default, it will just pass through whatever you feed it. 
   
  Quote: 





ulyses said:


> It would be great if some one post recommended settings for both computer and digital interface (upsamling rates, foobar wasapi out bit rate etc.)


 

 I would leave settings default on the computer and just let the DI do its work (this should give the cleanest signal possible). Foobar (WASAPI/ASIO) set output to 24bit and that's it. For Mac, I use Decibel and leave settings as is except I like to load files into memory.


----------



## Alexdad54

So I set the jumpers for 192 but leave the oversampling off? I read the following in a review by Doug Schroeder of the Minimax DAC in Dagogo.com that would seem to support this :
   
  "In order to test the consistency of the 32 bit upsampling I tried several tracks fed to the Minimax via 16 bit/44.1 and then 24 bit/192, with the Cambridge Audio Azur 840C connected via digital coaxial cable. The Azur’s digital output can toggle between these two signals on the fly with the remote. There was no discernible a difference in sound between the two modes as they were treated by the Minimax.
  Similarly, I fed both the standard Redbook signal as well as the upsampled output from the Ayon CD-5 into the Minimax. Again, no discernible difference was heard, even when switching on the fly. It appears there is no significant advantage to sending an upsampled signal to the Minimax; you get the same result either way. This speaks to the consistency of the processing through the Sabre chip. This is great news for people with lower-quality streaming audio. I use a Sonos Digital Music System, which only outputs 16/44.1, but with the Minimax DAC it will have the same sound as if it was a high-end player’s signal being sent to the DAC. *The Manual mirrors ESS’s specifications in that all sources are upgraded to a 32 bit and 32 KHz, 44.1 KHz, 48 KHz, or 192 KHz (except USB) sampling rates. In other words, you get the full potential of the highest caliber chip from ESS Technology in a tidy package*. (my emphasis)
  It is difficult to exaggerate the importance of this revelation. This fairly makes “Hi Rez” downloads a moot feature. If Hi Rez streams at 24 bits, but one can take plain old streaming audio at 16 bits and get the same result, there’s not much incentive to pursue costly downloads. Alternatively, there’s a _lot_ of incentive to gravitate toward music websites like Rhapsody, or one of my new favorites, Lastfm.com; the final outcome as treated by the Minimax is theoretically better than your typical Hi Rez sound! I say theoretically, as I have not actually compared Hi Rez files to those upgraded by the Minimax. However, there is no mistaking the upgrade to the sound of even a 24 bit signal from a Redbook player."
   
  Am I off-base here?.....


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Upsampling to 192 khz won't necessarily sound the best. I personally prefer 96 khz for most recordings, sometimes I prefer no upsampling. Depends on your taste. I would leave oversampling off, just my preference, as I like to stay as true to the recording as possible.
   
  If you are comparing DACs, I would first try out both without the DI. Then add the DI into the mix to see if you hear any difference. That should "theoretically" tell you how well your DAC handles jitter.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





alexdad54 said:


> do I need to set the jumpers inside  my DI to the specific setting to allow this or will the DI pass the files through without any re-configuration inside the unit?


 

 No. If you play a 24/96 file it will come out 24/96 if you don't change anything on the Di.
   
  Quote:Originally Posted by *Alexdad54* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  
  So I set the jumpers for 192 but leave the oversampling off? I read the following in a review by Doug Schroeder of the Minimax DAC in Dagogo.com that would seem to support this :
   
  No... you said your DAC can only play 24/96.


----------



## ulyses

Leaving upsampling jumper off and 96khz on, is there any difference from default setting (all jumpers off) ?


----------



## somestranger26

No, because upsampling would be off...


----------



## svyr

Could someone with a DI please post the results of the procedure described in http://www.head-fi.org/forum/newestpost/546092 
Is DI using the TE7022 chip?


----------



## Subsequence

Just want to note that OSSv4 under linux supports the DI but the mixer does not not work nor do any balance controls. So essentially it's bitperfect out of the box, only way to adjust volume is if the program has it's own volume control. Also because the oss mixer doesn't work only one app can access the device at a time. 
  Not sure if this changes with the latest SVN but for me the version in the archlinux repo's works well like this.


----------



## svyr

subsequence said:


> Just want to note that OSSv4 under linux supports the DI but the mixer does not not work nor do any balance controls. So essentially it's bitperfect out of the box, only way to adjust volume is if the program has it's own volume control. Also because the oss mixer doesn't work only one app can access the device at a time.
> Not sure if this changes with the latest SVN but for me the version in the archlinux repo's works well like this.




you'd probably have to go and 'complain' on a forum the main contributors to the repo hang out (if any). Generally it's either convincing them that it's good to put the changes on the TODO or FIXME list, or DIY


----------



## Subsequence

Quote: 





svyr said:


> you'd probably have to go and 'complain' on a forum the main contributors to the repo hang out (if any). Generally it's either convincing them that it's good to put the changes on the TODO or FIXME list, or DIY


 

 Hahah i will do nothing of the sort those software mixer's be damned!


----------



## svyr

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/546092/confirming-whether-your-dac-is-asynchronous-as-claimed-or-not#post_7366070 in light of that I'm doubly as curious for someone to follow the procedure in the top post there and post the DI log. If DI uses TE7022L like 160D and NFB-10WM then it quite likely can't be asynchronous despite being claimed to be. Someone, please post the log from it.


----------



## BoyNamedSue

I just placed an order for version A to pair with my NFB-10ES. I presume the USB power (i.e., my computer) needs to be ON when using the coax-in. Is the USB sufficient to power for coax-in use, or is external supply recommended for version A's?


----------



## Trapper32

My computer supplies power to the usb when its turned off and it is sufficient to run the coax-in.


----------



## BoyNamedSue

I wonder if my computer PSU does the same - that would make it more convenient.
  Quote: 





trapper32 said:


> My computer supplies power to the usb when its turned off and it is sufficient to run the coax-in.


----------



## Trapper32

Quote: 





boynamedsue said:


> I wonder if my computer PSU does the same - that would make it more convenient.


 

 Most motherboards now have the usb powered on so that you can "wake" the computer by use of the usb controlled mouse or keyboard.  You may have to change some settings in the bios depending on your motherboard.


----------



## yossi126

Picked up my DI + PSU earlier today and came here to agree with the hype.
  Since I don't have my own dac ready (Buffalo-II) I went to my friend's who owns a V800 dac>BCL>beyer T1
  We compared the usb input of the V800 to the DI.
  The result favored heavily towards the DI, but that most can deduce from this thread.
   
  More interesting for you is the benefit of the PSU and I can strengthen those claims.
  With the PSU the sound is clearer, less harsh. There is an added sense of depth to the soundstage. In addition minute details are better obtained by ear.
  Definitely worth the 75$.


----------



## vrln

One more report... Got my PSU and clock upgrade for my DI last week. I agree with the general opinion on the PSU upgrade: it´s worth it. Very nice boost for 75 dollars. Right now I´m testing the clock upgrade with 96kHz upsampling mode being fed into a REF7. It seems to move the sound a bit further from the listener, I´d compare it to applying a small amount of anti-aliasing to an image. It´s clearly smoother and less "strict", but beautifully natural and organic. The bass and vocals in particular sound even more effortless than before, with absolutely zero fatigue. For now I´m keeping the upsampling mode enabled, I like the effect it has. For 20 dollars definately worth a try at least. 
   
  It´s awesome the DI has modular parts like the clock! Oh and I also own the M2 HiFace and I felt the Digital Interface was superior without the PSU and clock upgrade already. But the difference wasn´t huge, now it is.


----------



## BoyNamedSue

Darn it, guys. I wasn't going to order the PSU, but it appears that there's enough consensus that the improvement is worth the price, so why not 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## attenuated 3db

Has anybody tried a DI with one of these? 

Their 9-vdc model works great with my Teralink X2 going into my NFB-3.


----------



## lordearl

Why not just use a 6v SLA battery?  Far better than any PSU!


----------



## attenuated 3db

lordearl said:


> Why not just use a 6v SLA battery?  Far better than any PSU!




Provided the battery has enough current capability (and a lead-acid battery certainly should), it should be able to handle dynamic power demands as well as something that can draw on the AC mains supply, or a USB 500-ma. 5-vdc power line. But I don't know if the battery's lack of regulation might make a difference. The Jaemeco-distributed linear regulated supplies have an IC chip to keep the voltage constant whatever momentary load the DI circuit may present to the power supply.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





boynamedsue said:


> Darn it, guys. I wasn't going to order the PSU, but it appears that there's enough consensus that the improvement is worth the price, so why not
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  As I said a long while back in this thread, if you wanted to build a linear supply for the DI you couldn't get the parts (just the traffo and stuffed psu board) for less than $75, let alone the finished product. It's a screaming bargain at 75.00 USD IMO. I usually order my linear supply kits from Hand Made Electronics in the US...none of the kits they have are under 100USD (unfortunately)...looking on line at various suppliers the lowest I could find cost wise for the whole package came to somewhere in the 200USD range (which includes the chassis / IEC / DC jack and internal wiring, power switch assembly etc) and that doesn't include labor assembly cost (if you weren't planning a DIY build). I have also used Kingwa's older PSU DIY part in the KHA Amp build (The Jaycar amp) to great effect. His latest DIY PSU is a upgrade of his older design (less tricky to setup).
   
  A quality linear PSU should always better the end result (as long as the PSU is a quality built well proven design). Kingy's PSU designs are superb IMO. Even this little device for the DI although basic is well thought out  and well built using HQ parts. It's as close to a no brainer as you can get IMO.
   
  Peete.
   
  PS: Kingwa suggests 7V DC min IIRC for the DI.


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





svyr said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/546092/confirming-whether-your-dac-is-asynchronous-as-claimed-or-not#post_7366070 in light of that I'm doubly as curious for someone to follow the procedure in the top post there and post the DI log. If DI uses TE7022L like 160D and NFB-10WM then it quite likely can't be asynchronous despite being claimed to be. Someone, please post the log from it.


 

 The USB isn't async as far as I know. The DSP3 is. It just isn't clearly worded on the web page that when he is talking about the "asynchronous process" that he is only talking about the DSP3.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote:  I just want to note that the DI PSU is class A as well, even more of a bargain.
   
  Quote: 





currawong said:


> The USB isn't async as far as I know. The DSP3 is. It just isn't clearly worded on the web page that when he is talking about the "asynchronous process" that he is only talking about the DSP3.


 

  
  It's adaptive and was just posted like a week ago. This discussion does not need to be repeated.
  Edit: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/500369/audio-gd-digital-interface/1710#post_7348463


----------



## svyr

somestranger26 said:


> It's adaptive and was just posted like a week ago. This discussion does not need to be repeated.




Ah, thanks. Well, you'll forgive me for not wanting to sift through 120 pages? As for the bit about 'This discussion does not need to be repeated.' we'll be the judge of that. If people keep asking it, maybe ADG should phrase it a bit better on their site. Having said that, Kingwa has replied to me saying it wasn't async as well  but that it does do reclocking ... wonder how/at what stage that's done if adaptive drops extra or interpolates samples in. need to RTM more 


>The USB isn't async as far as I know. The DSP3 is. It just isn't clearly worded on the web page that when he is talking about the "asynchronous process" that he is only talking about the DSP3.

I see, thanks Currawong.


----------



## Subsequence

Damn this tentlabs clock is no small upgrade. Better imaging and the highs are very smooth, liquid like on tube gear in fact everything sounds very effortless. Just more musical in every sense and the clock still has to burnin so it should only get better.... enough typing the music demands my attention!


----------



## Pacha

For those interested, I've emailed Audio-gd about upsampling parameters :
   
  Hello,
  I have received the upgrade clock for the DI, but I found confusing informations about upsampling values. There has been two pictures from Audio-gd to indicate what setting to choose on the jumpers, and both don't say the same thing.
  This one, on the website says for 96KHz upsampling : NO-C jumper ON, MMD0 OFF, MMD1 ON.
http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USBface/DSP3.JPG
  This one says : NO-C jumper ON but MMD0 ON, MMD1 OFF.
http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USBface/USB9.jpg
   
  So which setting to choose for 96KHz upsampling? MMD0 ON and MMD1 OFF, or MMD0 OFF and MMD1 ON ?
   
  Regards
   
   
  Reply :
   
  If you want to setting the DSP-3 96K umsampling,that you need to choice:NOC----On and MMD1----On that is OK
  Edwin
   
   
   
*Bottom line : previously here we were saying the 96KHz upsampling is ON with MMD0 and NO-C while it's MMD1 and NO-C.*


----------



## V3ng3anc3

Quote: 





pacha said:


> For those interested, I've emailed Audio-gd about upsampling parameters :
> 
> Hello,
> I have received the upgrade clock for the DI, but I found confusing informations about upsampling values. There has been two pictures from Audio-gd to indicate what setting to choose on the jumpers, and both don't say the same thing.
> ...


 
   
  The first picture is using jumpers and the second is using DIP switches. Just use the one you have, the jumpers are what they use now so just ignore the other one if you don't have it.


----------



## Pacha

The DIP switches are equivalent to the jumpers, and they should work in the same way. Otherwise there's no logic and there's a problem here :
   
  For example for NO-C :
  jumper ON = DIP to 0
   
  for 96KHz :
  jumper OFF = MMD0 to 0
   
  Otherwise, I have a weird "bzzz" in deep bass when upsampling at 96KHz (MMD1 + NO-C), on different kind of records and bass. I don't know if my clock is defective or something...?


----------



## vrln

It shouldn´t matter if you are using the jumper or switch version - the settings should be the same on both. If it weren´t why would Edwin answer like that? To me it is clear from Edwins answer that the http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USBface/USB9.jpg picture is then wrong.
   
  Pacha: thanks for posting, it looks like the majority of us are in fact using 64 upsampling when we think we are using 96!
   
  edit: I´ll try the 96 mode and see if I get the same buzz you described...
   
  edit: no buzz... 96 mode works with REF7.


----------



## V3ng3anc3

Quote: 





pacha said:


> The DIP switches are equivalent to the jumpers, and they should work in the same way. Otherwise there's no logic and there's a problem here :
> 
> For example for NO-C :
> jumper ON = DIP to 0
> ...


 

 Ahh my bad, I just figured it was configured differently when they were still using the switches. Though I guess it wouldn't make sense that they would change it....


----------



## Subsequence

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> I would be quite interested in a comparison between the tentlabs and the audio-gd clock. I'm somewhat skeptical when others with clock upgrades (including me) report subtle differences in the same areas.


 

 Well i went from non oversampling to 96khz with the tentlabs and the difference is quite big. I wanted to go for a maximum contrast so to say, having done some A/B testing and i stand by my conclusion. Take that for what's it's worth i'll just enjoy the music.


----------



## somestranger26

Are you using the "XO" or the "VCXO" clock from Tentlabs? If it's the VCXO maybe it is that much better but it's also much more expensive. Could you provide some comparisons to the stock clock + 96khz vs Tentlabs + 96khz? The upsampling does cause quite a change in the "smoothness" of the sound by itself.


----------



## acenes

Has anyone here that noticed big changes using upsampling noticed it with the USB connection ?  I don't notice any difference with upsampling on or off , I also noticed that 64K - NO-C=on , MMDO=on doesn't work at all , I just get silence with a click about every three seconds.  All other upsampling jumper settings give me sound , but no noticable change.
   
  Anybody here get 64K setting to work with USB ?
   
  I'm using DI ver.A , TCXO upgrade with no psu , USB cable , connected to NFB12 with AGD canare coaxial cable , winXP , foobar , asio4all.


----------



## Pacha

Guys, do the base of your TCXO clock touch the top of the socket? Mine does not and I don't know if the feet are too long or if the red rectangular thing just beside the clock block it a bit. I pushed it in the socket as much as I could and it seems that the feet of the clock are too long to touch the top of the socket.
   
  I'm trying to find an explanation for the buzz in the bass. I emailed audio-gd.


----------



## zibra

Can you compare that digital interface to trends audio ud10 or its another league? Trends audio doesnt support high res files but is it worth changing comparing to rest? i havent found any comparision between these two converters. Is changing converters noticeable change in sound or its only slight change? rest of my system is dac on PCM1796-matrix m stage-beyers dt880pro. thanks for answer


----------



## leeperry

zibra said:


> Can you compare that digital interface to trends audio ud10 or its another league?



The UD10 is using PCM2704 off a SMPS wallwart: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/Trends-Audio-UD-10-1-USB-Audio-Converter-Review

The DI will most likely trounce it, especially in combination w/ the external PSU


----------



## zibra

I want to buy cheapest version with USB only. connected to PC by USB and to DAC by BNC most likely. PCM allows to listen high res files. Does that mean Ill be allowed to listen to it? Would it be improvement for listening also 44.1 music files? Many tests say that its much better than any other converter and similiar to jkeny mod hiface. I still dont know what to expect by changing Trends Audio to DI. Maybe someone listen both and can give helping hand i dont want to waste money too much


----------



## acenes

The base of my TCXO is slightly elevated otherwise it would be touching a couple of resistors near it's side.


----------



## 00940

This is a nice little marketing write up, with just enough truth in it. Their overall argument is a bit flawed though, as they compare adaptive transfer+jitter cleaning to asynchronous transfer, throwing words around to hide the fact that jitter cleaning has to be added to the adaptive transfer while it's pretty much intrinsic to the asynchronous mode.
   
  In an asynchronous transfer, your data is fed from the First In, First Out (FIFO) buffer into the DAC by a local clock. The level of jitter of that clock is all the jitter you'll ever get at the DAC. The irregularities in USB transfer do not matter since the packets are stored in the buffer and only get out when asked to by a derivative of the local clock. Obviously, you want to keep the buffer small for budgetary reasons so there is a feedback mechanism provided for by the USB specifications, which allows the sink to adjust the source's sending frequency.
   
  In an adaptive USB transfer, you have no possibility to control the source's sending frequency. So you must find another system to keep your small FIFO buffer neither empty nor full while feeding the DAC with a constant clock. In practice, you must generate the clock that will empty the buffer in relation with (and thus on the basis of) the timing of the incoming packets. The problem is to generate a perfectly clean clock out of a jittery flow of packets.
   
  Actually, there are indeed very good ways to clean up jitter and to generate such clean clock, it's been done for a while for spdif. I don't feel bad using adaptive receivers and a good adaptive implementation could beat a bad asynchronous one. But, conceptually, the asynchronous method is still arguably superior as it doesn't require an extra layer of jitter cleaning.
  
  Quote: 





crumpler said:


> Just came across this little write-up while i was doing some research on this awesome product i bought a while ago as my portable solution for now and thought it might be interesting especially to those who are somewhat disappointed that asynchronous USB transfer isn't implemented in the Audio-GD range.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Sid-Fi

Very nice post 00940. Thanks for the detailed explanation. I'm trying to decide the DI, the Evo, and Mk2. Not crazy about having to pay a large premium for the latter two and still having to upgrade to nicer psu's later. At the same time, I don't want to skimp on a long-term solution .


----------



## Mambosenior

Does anyone own both the original HiFace and Audio-gd DI? What are the differences in SQ? Is the DI a move forward or sideways from the HiFace?
Thank you.


----------



## acenes

Reading this shootout review helped convince me to buy the Audio-gd DI , the original HiFace has slightly fallen from grace around here when they changed to small clocks and it changed the sound flavor.
   
  http://www.tweak-fi.com/apps/blog/show/5029064-the-usb-to-spdif-shoot-out-review-part-2-teralink-x2-vs-jkeny-s-modified-hiface-vs-audio-gd-digital-interface
   
  Quote: 





mambosenior said:


> Does anyone own both the original HiFace and Audio-gd DI? What are the differences in SQ? Is the DI a move forward or sideways from the HiFace?
> Thank you.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





acenes said:


> Reading this shootout review helped convince me to buy the Audio-gd DI , the original HiFace has slightly fallen from grace around here when they changed to small clocks and it changed the sound flavor


 
  And then they went back to the original clocks and raised the price of the Hiface... dirty bait-and-switch move on their part. I have said a few times that I much, much prefer the digital interface to the hiface; there was pretty much zero improvement with the hiface.


----------



## zibra

Im waiting for DI with PSU - had luck to buy from guy in my country. You said that theres option of upgrading clock. What kind of clock is in it as standard? Does that clock would be an improvement?:
   
  http://cgi.ebay.pl/Valab-1PPM-24-5760-MHz-Low-Jitter-Precision-TCXO-/270715123067?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f07e0f57b
   
  is it correct one?


----------



## somestranger26

Those Valab clocks should work since they're the correct frequency (24.576MHz) and I'd suspect they're approximately equivalent to the one audio-gd sells for about the same price.


----------



## zibra

so what is original clock that it needs to be upgraded?
  on audio gd site they say working volateg is 3.3V and on valab site is 5V. no worries about that?
  on ebay there are also some vanguard golden clock with ppm at 0.3 but not at exact frequency. What is most importnat for clock to DI then? im newbie in such things


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





zibra said:


> so what is original clock that it needs to be upgraded?
> on audio gd site they say working volateg is 3.3V and on valab site is 5V. no worries about that?
> on ebay there are also some vanguard golden clock with ppm at 0.3 but not at exact frequency. What is most importnat for clock to DI then? im newbie in such things


 


  Oh oops my bad, you need 24.5760MHz _*and*_ 3.3V for it to work, unless you email Kingwa and he says otherwise. Some people are using the Tentlabs XO (?) as an alternative to the audio-gd one. The audio-gd one is also 0.3ppm like the vanguard golden clock so buying it straight from Audio-GD may be your best bet.


----------



## zibra

thank you Ill think about it


----------



## Sid-Fi

Super helpful review, thanks for posting! He seemed fair and unbiased. Very positive review to compare it so favorably to the higher priced options.
  
  Quote: 





acenes said:


> Reading this shootout review helped convince me to buy the Audio-gd DI , the original HiFace has slightly fallen from grace around here when they changed to small clocks and it changed the sound flavor.
> 
> http://www.tweak-fi.com/apps/blog/show/5029064-the-usb-to-spdif-shoot-out-review-part-2-teralink-x2-vs-jkeny-s-modified-hiface-vs-audio-gd-digital-interface


----------



## Grainy

Hello knowledgable headfiers,
   
*Short Version:*
  My DI has a lot of electical buzz coming though, anyone else found this?
   
*Long Version:*
  I've had the DI for around 2 weeks now, probably has 20 hours of use so far, it has relpaced a Musiland Monitor 01 USB. I'm finding the DI passes through a lot of electical noise from my PC. With Headphones on and between tracks playing I get screechy noises when I move the mouse, hard drive transfers and just background hum. The amp is set at a reasonable volume, but not blowing my ears out. When I swap back to the Musiland it is dead quiet (same cables, usb port etc).
   
  I've checked the following:
  USB port is not sharing hub controller with anything else.
  Different USB ports,
  Different USB cable.
  Sending system sounds to muted onboard speaker.
  Unfortunatly I can't find a separate electrical circuit to plug it in (well, tried some different points anyway)
  I'm going to find someone elses system to test with.
  I've yet to contact Audio-gd, I just want to make sure its not me or my setup first.
   
  My setup:
  HP SFF PC / Windows 7 / J.River -> MHDT USB Cable -> Audio-gd DI -> Rose Voix DG-1 Coax -> MHDT Havana -> Cord Crimson IC's -> Cyrus 8vs2 Amp
   
  Any thoughts appreciated.


----------



## svyr

grainy said:


> Hello knowledgable headfiers,
> 
> *Short Version:*
> My DI has a lot of electical buzz coming though, anyone else found this?
> ...




pretty sure you have a ground loop problem. Try it with another pc, and try it on batter if it's a laptop.


----------



## somestranger26

Yeah, probably a ground loop is causing the background hum. However, the fact that it's making sounds when you move your mouse and such around though sounds like some other problem, try on another computer as suggested above to see if it still happens. I would contact Kingwa if the other computer also has the problem, otherwise it could be something wrong with your computer (maybe a noisy laptop power supply?).


----------



## Grainy

Of course, a ground loop... I grabbed a laptop today and sure enough, quiet as a mouse, even with the AC adaptor plugged in. I obviously have an issue with my music PC. Thanks guy's.


----------



## ninjikiran

Quote: 





pacha said:


> Guys, do the base of your TCXO clock touch the top of the socket? Mine does not and I don't know if the feet are too long or if the red rectangular thing just beside the clock block it a bit. I pushed it in the socket as much as I could and it seems that the feet of the clock are too long to touch the top of the socket.
> 
> I'm trying to find an explanation for the buzz in the bass. I emailed audio-gd.


 


  Seems to be an audio-gd thing since on my NFB-2 my DIR9001 is in the same boat on one side but I dont have any problems with the connection audibly.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





grainy said:


> Of course, a ground loop... I grabbed a laptop today and sure enough, quiet as a mouse, even with the AC adaptor plugged in. I obviously have an issue with my music PC. Thanks guy's.


 
  What sort of CPU and motherboard are you using (Do you know?). You may try going into the BIOS and disabling Hyperthreading and Speedstep if it's an Intel CPU, and turn off Cool 'n' Quiet if it's an AMD CPU. To get into the BIOS you usually have to press a key like Del or F10 while it is booting up but before it reaches the windows loading screen.


----------



## Grainy

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> What sort of CPU and motherboard are you using (Do you know?). You may try going into the BIOS and disabling Hyperthreading and Speedstep if it's an Intel CPU, and turn off Cool 'n' Quiet if it's an AMD CPU. To get into the BIOS you usually have to press a key like Del or F10 while it is booting up but before it reaches the windows loading screen.


 

 It's an HP Small Form Factor Corporate PC with Intel Dual Core 2 - no Hyperthreading or Speedstep. Its small and quiet. I've been in the BIOS before, it's basic, but I'll have a poke around. I guess what confused me and I found it strange that the Musiland had no noise problems.


----------



## ninjikiran

I dunno, I have a fairly powerful machine(not going to bother, its in my profile) and although they are generally all high powered components I don't get any noise or any of those kinds of issues through my transport.  This is with the power being alotted to USB coming from my PSU.


----------



## attenuated 3db

ninjikiran said:


> I dunno, I have a fairly powerful machine(not going to bother, its in my profile) and although they are generally all high powered components I don't get any noise or any of those kinds of issues through my transport.  This is with the power being alotted to USB coming from my PSU.




Yeah, that's a "robust" computing rig you have in your profile. I am still using the year-old Sony laptop with self-installed 80-gb. Intel SSD, but I can't complain. For music or BluRay movies, my audio chain is dead-quiet other than the signal. I can turn the gain all the way up on my esoteric preamp (see my profile) and there is _no_ noise, but when I feed any signal to the NFB-3 (through the Teralink X2 via coax input), my Hafler 220 rattles the walls, principally of my speaker enclosures. Need to damp them more. I am seriously thinking about e-mailing Edwin and getting a USB-only Digital Interface with the clock upgrade and seeing how much improvement I can detect over the Teralink, which I can probably get $50 of the $77 I spent to get it back. Might hold off on the DI PSU depending on how much it would cost to ship it separately and individually later. 

Being an audiophile on a tightly constrained budget leads to a lot of DIY projects and "turning over your old inventory." I'm about to put my Maverick A1 up for sale now that I've rigged something to connect to my Hafler to serve as a headphone amp. That's why the DI now has my attention more than a C-2.1, although maybe someday.... The ACSS circuit topology end-to-end is really nice.


----------



## ninjikiran

Well most people say the more robust the rig, the more noise.  Which doesn't seem to be my specific case.
  
  Quote: 





attenuated 3db said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## borrego

RF Attenuator on the DI
   
  I read the Modified Hiface thread and saw how a RF Attenuator could reduce signal reflection/jitters. I felt for a small amount of money it may worth a try as it is cheaper than many coaxle cable upgrade anyway.
   
  So I bought this 10db attenuator from ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110663564870&ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:US:1123 and try it on the DI
   
  I tried looking for a 75ohm impedance version but couldn't get anything cheap. Then I did some research on wiki and they were suggesting the 50ohm/75ohm difference is negligible under 1MHz. So I bought the 50ohm version.
   
  I put it between the DI, Audio-gd BNC cable and the NFB-1. The playback seems just a little, little bit more focus and "softer". I can't tell if it is placebo effect. But one thing I can confirm is the RF attenuator seems to eliminate the occasional drop out completely, even when I rock my notebook during playback, there is still no dropout.
   
  I think for the small amount of money, it's worth a try.


----------



## Patu

Was it so that DI doesn't support 24bit 88,2khz files? I just now noticed that I can't play these files. I have like five albums on this format.


----------



## acenes

Quote: 





patu said:


> Was it so that DI doesn't support 24bit 88,2khz files? I just now noticed that I can't play these files. I have like five albums on this format.


 

 The Tenor TE7022 usb converter products do not support 88.2KHz files , as far as I know from reading reviews and googling.  I believe the M2Tech HiFace in your signature does though.
   
  Cheers,


----------



## Patu

I've forgot to change my signature, DI + PSU is my primary source now. It just sounds better. Too bad that it doesn't support 88,2khz though. By the way has anyone compared this to the Audiophileo 1 or 2?


----------



## erjifan

DI can certainly support 24bit 88.2khz files if you change the output of Foobar2k to be ASIO. Just in case, if you don't have an ASIO driver, you can use the following one.
   
http://cid-1eb7027489224a7d.office.live.com/browse.aspx/Teralink-X2%20ASIO%20driver%20%5E50.9%20beta%5E6
  
  I have quite a few albums of Linn Records in 24bit 88.2khz format. DI plays them very well.
   
  Quote:


patu said:


> I've forgot to change my signature, DI + PSU is my primary source now. It just sounds better. Too bad that it doesn't support 88,2khz though. By the way has anyone compared this to the Audiophileo 1 or 2?


----------



## acenes

Quote: 





erjifan said:


> DI can certainly support 24bit 88.2khz files if you change the output of Foobar2k to be ASIO. Just in case, if you don't have an ASIO driver, you can use the following one.
> 
> http://cid-1eb7027489224a7d.office.live.com/browse.aspx/Teralink-X2%20ASIO%20driver%20%5E50.9%20beta%5E6
> 
> ...


 
  Well there you go then...  I don't have any 88.2 files to even try anyway, I don't even know how to aquire them.  I did try those drivers for the Teralink X2 you linked too , they caused my video screen to go completely black when I tried to play a MP3 in foobar, had to push reset button and unistall them.


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Because if you set it to 24/96 and you're not bypassing the windows mixer with something like WASAPI, it will upsample everything to 24/96 before being output.


 

 Not to beat a dead horse here but my question is- if my on-board audio devices are all disabled (in device manager), how can the computer upsample? Don't the sound cards do that?


----------



## acenes

I just went to Linn Records and downloaded 24/88.2 test file , with asio4all I get:
Unrecoverable playback error: The ASIO device does not support specified sample rate (88200Hz); please configure resampler appropriately
   
I can't duplicate your claim since I haven't figured out a way yet to get the Teralink-X2 drivers to work , but since Teralink-X2 reviewers say it doesn't support 88.2KHz files either , I'm curious to know how you got it working.  Are you possibly re-sampling the 88.2MHz file before sending it to DI?  Is that possible with the X2-ASIO drivers?
  Quote: 





erjifan said:


> DI can certainly support 24bit 88.2khz files if you change the output of Foobar2k to be ASIO. Just in case, if you don't have an ASIO driver, you can use the following one.
> 
> http://cid-1eb7027489224a7d.office.live.com/browse.aspx/Teralink-X2%20ASIO%20driver%20%5E50.9%20beta%5E6
> 
> ...


----------



## Patu

Nevermind...


----------



## acenes

Quote: 





patu said:


> Nevermind...


 

 Did you get it to work ?


----------



## erjifan

I set my DI for upsampling to 96khz. I also have my Windows sound setup as 2ch 16bit 44.1khz by default. Hope you can replicate what I do and get same result. My DI is playing one of my 24bit-88khz albums now.
   
  Quote: 





acenes said:


> I just went to Linn Records and downloaded 24/88.2 test file , with asio4all I get:
> Unrecoverable playback error: The ASIO device does not support specified sample rate (88200Hz); please configure resampler appropriately
> 
> I can't duplicate your claim since I haven't figured out a way yet to get the Teralink-X2 drivers to work , but since Teralink-X2 reviewers say it doesn't support 88.2KHz files either , I'm curious to know how you got it working.  Are you possibly re-sampling the 88.2MHz file before sending it to DI?  Is that possible with the X2-ASIO drivers?


----------



## acenes

Thanks erjifan , you must have something better than WinXP, I haven't found that kind of control in WinXP , time to upgrade I believe, just need to start looking for a real good laptop I can load my music files on.  Your the 1st person I've heard to get 88.2 work , nice job!


----------



## erjifan

I'm using Win 7 sp1 64bit. I heard sp1 even has better USB audio driver though I couldn't tell. I guess it worths an upgrade.

  Quote: 





acenes said:


> Thanks erjifan , you must have something better than WinXP, I haven't found that kind of control in WinXP , time to upgrade I believe, just need to start looking for a real good laptop I can load my music files on.  Your the 1st person I've heard to get 88.2 work , nice job!


----------



## Nada

As far as playing 88.2 files via the DI there are two ways that I think will work:
   
  1. USB only DI version - the TE USB recieving chip in the DI dosent recognise 88.2k so you will need ,to send it a freq it recognises eg 96k.
  Set your player eg with Windows use Foobar to upsample to 96k. Upsampling can decrease jitter if the internal clock is good enough which is problematic on most machines. In Foobar use the SOX DSP and set it up with very high quality and phase at 50% and set Foobar to have high priority via the Task Manager
   
  2. If you have the DI version with SPDIF in, send it 88.2 from SPDIF out of an internal sound card set up to output 88.2
   
  Hope that helps some one.


----------



## Nada

Quote: 





erjifan said:


> I'm using Win 7 sp1 64bit.


 
  then you are probably going to find Foobar with WASAPI out and the buffer set low as possible eg<400ms a useful trial.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> Not to beat a dead horse here but my question is- if my on-board audio devices are all disabled (in device manager), how can the computer upsample? Don't the sound cards do that?


 

  
  The CPU is doing the upsampling work for the USB audio interface. Even with integrated audio, your CPU is doing most of the work. If you had a full fledged sound card and were outputting spdif directly from the card, then the card would theoretically control all of the upsampling or lack thereof.


----------



## thuantran

With Windows Vista and later, for DirectSound output, CPU will do most the work including resampling regardless of what card you have.


----------



## zibra

Do I need to open DI and change something for theoretically better sound? I have it connected via USB. I opened it because saw that picture:\\
   
  http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USBface/DSP3.JPG
   
  I dont have any jumper fdor pins right now. But does that upsampling is better at on mode? What is MMD0 and MMD1 - when jumpers pushed into it agoers to 192K always? i dont understand it well. Can someone please explain it?


----------



## blankdisc

zibra said:


> Do I need to open DI and change something for theoretically better sound? I have it connected via USB. I opened it because saw that picture:\\
> 
> http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USBface/DSP3.JPG
> 
> I dont have any jumper fdor pins right now. But does that upsampling is better at on mode? What is MMD0 and MMD1 - when jumpers pushed into it agoers to 192K always? i dont understand it well. Can someone please explain it?




upsampling doesn't necessarily make the sound better. a lot of ppl including myself prefer the default setting (no jumper installed). i feel that upsampling makes the sound unnatural, and the best way really is to obtain high resolution music files like the ones from HDtracks. You should test it by inserting jumpers as Audio-GD showed in that picture, and see which one sounds better to you. everyone's ears are different.


----------



## acenes

All I had to do to play a 88.2 file was to go into foobar's DSP Manager and activate the resampler (PPHS) , then configure it to 44.1 or 96 , it's just resampled , but works.  Kudo's for foobar , Knuckle-head rub for me.


----------



## MikeW

Yeah, that seemed like the obvious answer to me as well. Was wondering why more people don't do this, guess they want native 88.2 without resampling. doubt taking it to 96 does much harm to the audio.
  Quote: 





acenes said:


> All I had to do to play a 88.2 file was to go into foobar's DSP Manager and activate the resampler (PPHS) , then configure it to 44.1 or 96 , it's just resampled , but works.  Kudo's for foobar , Knuckle-head rub for me.


----------



## attenuated 3db

mikew said:


> Yeah, that seemed like the obvious answer to me as well. Was wondering why more people don't do this, guess they want native 88.2 without resampling. doubt taking it to 96 does much harm to the audio.



That's what I've always done with my 88.2 files, sending them to my Teralink X2 which is configured as a 96/24 output device in Windows 7. (Hoping to replace the Teralink X2 with a DI soon.) 

The Foobar PPHS resampler works great, but you wonder why the "ultra" mode is still included, when everybody (including the author, apparently) recommends against using it.


----------



## rlawli

Subscribed.


----------



## zibra

Does that external PSU can be used with other DACs like V-DAC or others? Is it universal? I see absolutely no difference with or without PSU changing DCIN-USB. Maybe because good PSU and mobo in PC - I dont know.


----------



## BoyNamedSue

This may be a little OCD on my part, but would it improve SQ plugging in the DI PSU to a power conditioner?


----------



## Baird GoW

Quote: 





boynamedsue said:


> This may be a little OCD on my part, but would it improve SQ plugging in the DI PSU to a power conditioner?


 


  Not OCD at all. I think that is the entire reason I hear such a big difference with mine.


----------



## BoyNamedSue

Thanks for the response. I've run out of plugs for my furman ac-215 (only 2 sockets!) so I'll keep my eye out for another one. BTW, are you using stock power cable to feed the DI? I notice you have a pangea 9 feeding your filter. 
  
  Quote: 





baird gow said:


> Not OCD at all. I think that is the entire reason I hear such a big difference with mine.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





baird gow said:


> Not OCD at all. I think that is the entire reason I hear such a big difference with mine.


 
  I think it might make a tiny bit of improvement, but we aren't the only ones finding the PSU to be highly beneficial for the price. Did you even try it w/o filter?
   
  Quote: 





boynamedsue said:


> Thanks for the response. I've run out of plugs for my furman ac-215 (only 2 sockets!) so I'll keep my eye out for another one. BTW, are you using stock power cable to feed the DI? I notice you have a pangea 9 feeding your filter.


 
  Part of what I like about the audio-gd one... 6 filter sockets! Baird-gow is indeed using the stock cable (or a monoprice 14awg, not a $$ one) to feed his DI.


----------



## tim3320070

I have $3 Monoprice power cables for everything and it sounds great. I had Pangea and a couple of other "upgraded" power cords that are sold. Draw your own conclusions.


----------



## BoyNamedSue

Yeah, wish I got in on the audio-gd filter when it was available - could use the extra sockets. I also got some pangea-9 cords along the way. Minus the HE-6s, my audio chain is looking more like your's and Baird's!
   
  Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> I think it might make a tiny bit of improvement, but we aren't the only ones finding the PSU to be highly beneficial for the price. Did you even try it w/o filter?
> 
> Part of what I like about the audio-gd one... 6 filter sockets! Baird-gow is indeed using the stock cable (or a monoprice 14awg, not a $$ one) to feed his DI.


 

 Good point. I can finally see what all the power cord fuss is about (or not).
   
  Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> I have $3 Monoprice power cables for everything and it sounds great. I had Pangea and a couple of other "upgraded" power cords that are sold. Draw your own conclusions.


----------



## zibra

Can I use that external PSU with other DACs (not only audio gd) for cleaner supply power? Can it work with VDAC or arcam rdac for example? Anyone knows?


----------



## rlawli

>I've run out of plugs for my furman ac-215 (only 2 sockets!) so I'll keep my eye out for another one. 
   
  $120 @
   
  http://www.overstock.com/Electronics/Furman-Sound-Series-II-Compact-Power-Line-Conditioner/5084431/product.html?cid=123620
   
  Furman makes high quality, professional grade products. The 215 unit filters, spike and surge suppresses, and shuts down in high overvoltage conditions. You might want to consider low voltage, brown-out protection as well. Brown-outs may not kill your equipment as quickly as spikes and surges but they'll do it just as surely.


----------



## BoyNamedSue

Thanks for the find. I've been periodically checking ebay for a deal. I got a really good deal on my current furman ac-215 - was used but in good working condition for $70 shipped. 
   
  My DI is arriving today - quite excited! Shipping from China is faster than I thought.


----------



## punk_guy182

I have the Audio-GD Filter and I find that it's a worthy 100$ upgrade.
  Has Kingwa said why he discontinued the product and if he intends to replace it with something better or different?


----------



## macrog

Either Kingwa or Edwin (cant remember which one) said that couldn't reliably get the parts to make the power filter. Hopefully it will come back in the future.
   
  The D-350 really interests me. I haven't heard one yet.
   
  Regards
   
  Macrog


----------



## punk_guy182

Yeah I'd be very interested in an Audio-GD power regenerator like the Dynamo D350.


----------



## blankdisc

If you are like me who is wondering whether a wall wart will do the same trick as PSU, I emailed Kingwa several days ago, and he was so kind (damn, i like Audio-GD now) to recommend the 6VDC/1A version from the following link. I have it now, and it works perfectly. Don't ask me whether it changes the sound. i am not going to even bother A/B it. Just want to have a piece of mind without spending a lot of money. I was going to order the PSU from Audio-GD, but the shipping totally kills the deal. 

https://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/StoreCatalogDrillDownView?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&categoryName=cat_45&subCategoryName=AC-to-DC+Linear+Regulated&category=4535


----------



## Nada

Quote: 





blankdisc said:


> If you are like me who is wondering whether a wall wart will do the same trick as PSU, I emailed Kingwa several days ago, and he was so kind (damn, i like Audio-GD now) to recommend the 6VDC/1A version from the following link. I have it now, and it works perfectly. Don't ask me whether it changes the sound. i am not going to even bother A/B it. Just want to have a piece of mind without spending a lot of money. I was going to order the PSU from Audio-GD, but the shipping totally kills the deal.
> 
> https://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/StoreCatalogDrillDownView?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&categoryName=cat_45&subCategoryName=AC-to-DC+Linear+Regulated&category=4535


   
  Thats a great tip from Kingwa
  The link has two 6v linear regulated units. Would the 1.0A model be better the a 0.5A unit?


----------



## haloxt

Quote: 





rlawli said:


> >I've run out of plugs for my furman ac-215 (only 2 sockets!) so I'll keep my eye out for another one.


 

 You can always get outlet multipliers and put them on the ac-215. I have it and audio-gd's power filter, I like both but each have different pros and cons, most important is that ac-215 is designed to protect gear from dangerous spikes and brownouts,  and that audio-gd's power filter has multiple kinds of filtering options. Ac-215 really makes the sound cleaner and defined, but at the expense of dynamics, especially for speaker amps. Audio-gd's power filter has a milder effect on the sound in comparison, but more relaxed grip on dynamics.


----------



## blankdisc

1A is what Kingwa recommended. it hasn't blow up my DI yet, so i think it's good. 
  
  Quote: 





nada said:


>


----------



## Denys

Quote: 





blankdisc said:


> If you are like me who is wondering whether a wall wart will do the same trick as PSU, I emailed Kingwa several days ago, and he was so kind (damn, i like Audio-GD now) to recommend the 6VDC/1A version from the following link. I have it now, and it works perfectly. Don't ask me whether it changes the sound. i am not going to even bother A/B it. Just want to have a piece of mind without spending a lot of money. I was going to order the PSU from Audio-GD, but the shipping totally kills the deal.
> 
> https://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/StoreCatalogDrillDownView?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&categoryName=cat_45&subCategoryName=AC-to-DC+Linear+Regulated&category=4535


 

 Would you be kind enough to mention which one ? There's a lot, and I'd like to purchase one for my own DI..... Just mention the part number please...
   
  Thanks in advance
   
  Denys


----------



## blankdisc

here you go. Part no. 1953719
  
  Quote: 





denys said:


> Would you be kind enough to mention which one ? There's a lot, and I'd like to purchase one for my own DI..... Just mention the part number please...
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Denys


----------



## Denys

Quote: 





blankdisc said:


> here you go. Part no. 1953719


 

  
  Thank you very much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Denys


----------



## attenuated 3db

nada said:


> "That's a great tip from Kingwa!"




Hey, I want some credit for this idea!


----------



## kr0gg

guys, would you kindly recommed one for 220v (European) usage?)


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





attenuated 3db said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Alright....
   
  Way to go 3db !!!
   
  Cheers  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Peete.


----------



## attenuated 3db

pricklely peete said:


> Alright....Way to go 3db !!!<
> 
> Cheers
> 
> ...



Thank you.


----------



## Nada

I wonder what is more important feeding the DI from a compromised external power supply - more voltage or more current?
   
   I see the external DC socket on my DI specifies  "+5 to 10V" "300MA"
   
  The recommended item in posts above is 6v and 1000ma
   
  Would this be better:
   
  http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_1953639_-1?CID=PDF
   
  its    120VAC    60Hz    9VDC  ±5%     500mA


----------



## somestranger26

Kingwa recommends 7V so I think you're better off with the 6V 1A.


----------



## blankdisc

nada said:


> I wonder what is more important feeding the DI from a compromised external power supply - more voltage or more current?
> 
> I see the external DC socket on my DI specifies  "+5 to 10V" "300MA"
> 
> ...




Or maybe you can get both, and let us know which one sounds better.


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> You can always get outlet multipliers and put them on the ac-215. I have it and audio-gd's power filter, I like both but each have different pros and cons, most important is that ac-215 is designed to protect gear from dangerous spikes and brownouts,  and that audio-gd's power filter has multiple kinds of filtering options. Ac-215 really makes the sound cleaner and defined, but at the expense of dynamics, especially for speaker amps. Audio-gd's power filter has a milder effect on the sound in comparison, but more relaxed grip on dynamics.


 

 Can you tell me your setup with the AGD power filter? What do you have in the various db sockets? I forgot what was recommended.
  Thanks, Tim


----------



## alexhl

Moment of revelation. Decided to sign up to post an interesting question in relation to the audio-gd DI.
   
  Would the DI sound better than the I2S implementation on some of Kingwas DACs. IE. the wolfson DACs
   
http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/NFB-1/NFB1WMEN.htm    Quote: '[size=x-small]The 24/96 USB interface outputs a I2S signal to dual WM8741.[/size]'
   
  Technically speaking, wouldn't the USB implementation on this DAC be superior to using any USB to SPDIF converter as it skips the SPDIF conversion and any other processor completely?
   
  Wouldn't this also solve the issue of i2s complications from one device to another.

 I've tried asking Kingwa about this but the replies are coming from Edwin whom doesn't really understand my query.
   
  Cheers


----------



## somestranger26

Lol, the USB implementation on the NFB-10 is pretty average and improves a lot with DI. If you searched for "digital interface nfb-10" you would have known that.


----------



## svyr

somestranger26 said:


> Lol, the USB implementation on the NFB-10 is pretty average and improves a lot with DI. If you searched for "digital interface nfb-10" you would have known that.




he's asking about 1 not 10


----------



## alexhl

There is a NFB 10WM and a NFB 10ES.

 The Audio-gd site is down at the moment so I can't check whether or not the 10WM has the direct i2s to dac implementation but the 10ES definitely doesn't.

 Cheers,
   
  EDIT: Judging from your sig, you have the NFB-10ES and Kingwa has stripped the USB input from the sabre dacs. He's probably working on a way to implement the usb i2s direct connection. Previously they had issues with implementing on the NFB 11 (sabre dac).
 The Wolfson dacs still have this method of usb implementation though


----------



## K3cT

What's the lead time of this nowadays? 

And CMIIW, the upgraded clock only becomes useful when you use the upsampling feature yes?


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





svyr said:


> he's asking about 1 not 10


 
  Okay, and it has the same mediocre USB implementation.
   
  Quote: 





alexhl said:


> There is a NFB 10WM and a NFB 10ES.
> 
> The Audio-gd site is down at the moment so I can't check whether or not the 10WM has the direct i2s to dac implementation but the 10ES definitely doesn't.
> 
> ...


 
  There was a USB version of the NFB-10ES when I ordered and it _did_ use I2S feed into the ES9018. He probably got rid of it because there are some issues using I2S input to ES9018 but I don't know much about that. USB->I2S really doesn't mean anything in terms of sound quality, depends on how it's implemented.
   
  Quote: 





k3ct said:


> And CMIIW, the upgraded clock only becomes useful when you use the upsampling feature yes?


 
  Yes...


----------



## alexhl

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Okay, and it has the same mediocre USB implementation.
> 
> There was a USB version of the NFB-10ES when I ordered and it _did_ use I2S feed into the ES9018. He probably got rid of it because there are some issues using I2S input to ES9018 but I don't know much about that. USB->I2S really doesn't mean anything in terms of sound quality, depends on how it's implemented.
> 
> Yes...


 

  
  Correct, the ES9018 did have problems with accepting an i2s feed from the usb port.
 If the job of a transport (the DI) converts a usb signal using the same tenor receiver to SPDIF and it does it perfectly, it still has to connect using spdif from transport to DAC. The DAC receives the signal using its SPDIF receiver, goes through whatever jitter cleanup process(if the dac design employs jitter cleanup prior to sending data to the dac) and ends up feeding an i2s signal to the DAC chip.
   
  Now, if the same tenor chip on the 10WM receives the same usb signal, converts it to i2s (instead of SPDIF) and feeds it directly to the dac chipset, this method is free from the spdif woes and should be cleaner.

 These 2 devices are designed by the same person so I'm assuming that he'd have implemented it properly?
  I'm not sure if you are aware, but most other DACs with built in usb actually converts the signal to SPDIF and THEN feeds it to the SPDIF receiver. This method is a no-no. That is why the utilisation of a good usb converter improves the sound.
   
  As they say in audio, the less transformation the signal goes through, the better.


----------



## somestranger26

Though it may be _theoretically_ cleaner to go directly to I2S, I guarantee the Digital Interface will sound better because it reduces jitter as well as reclocking and galvanically isolating the signal.


----------



## alexhl

Does the DI have galvanic isolation on the USB input by default?
 If this is the case, I'm sure Kingwa could do this to the USB input of the 10WM too.
 In regards to 'reclocking' I think that's a matter of preference best left for another thread.
  Think about how much signal degradation there is with the SPDIF conversion.
 SPDIF is a flawed interface and if it IS possible to bypass it, why shouldn't we embrace it and look forward to a better 'theoretical' path.


----------



## svyr

alexhl said:


> Does the DI have galvanic isolation on the USB input by default?
> If this is the case, I'm sure Kingwa could do this to the USB input of the 10WM too.
> In regards to 'reclocking' I think that's a matter of preference best left for another thread.
> Think about how much signal degradation there is with the SPDIF conversion.
> SPDIF is a flawed interface and if it IS possible to bypass it, why shouldn't we embrace it and look forward to a better 'theoretical' path.




The USB input is not galvanically isolated on the DI (have a look, there is no transformer or optical isolation) http://www.tweak-fi.com/apps/blog/show/5029064-the-usb-to-spdif-shoot-out-review-part-2-teralink-x2-vs-jkeny-s-modified-hiface-vs-audio-gd-digital-interface
I'm sure audio-gd like many other companies prefer to offer a separate box for DI to get more money. I asked for the same USB section as on DI on my 10WM and was told to buy DI instead. 
Doesn't make me pleased at all. I already have USB->Coax converters, I don't want to have 10 boxes on my desk and suspect multistage conversion to/from USB->SPDIF<->I2S/etc.

It's bad enough being AGD's extended credit facility with their delays in production...


----------



## alexhl

But your 10WM will come with the USB input as well?

 If that's the case, you could be a gem and compare the DI to the 10WM's native usb input =)


----------



## svyr

alexhl said:


> But your 10WM will come with the USB input as well?
> 
> If that's the case, you could be a gem and compare the DI to the 10WM's native usb input =)




not buying a DI. Already have a MD11. As for galvanic isolation, I suppose we can always buy another box  USB Isolator, USB2ISO, https://www.aimagin.com/store/amg-usb-isolator.html or a dodgy hub with galvanic isolation (only seen them on alibaba  and yes, the 'h' word  ) or http://www.aqvox.de/usb-power_en.html


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





alexhl said:


> Does the DI have galvanic isolation on the USB input by default?
> If this is the case, I'm sure Kingwa could do this to the USB input of the 10WM too.
> In regards to 'reclocking' I think that's a matter of preference best left for another thread.
> Think about how much signal degradation there is with the SPDIF conversion.
> SPDIF is a flawed interface and if it IS possible to bypass it, why shouldn't we embrace it and look forward to a better 'theoretical' path.


 
  Reclocking is not a matter of preference, I am not talking about upsampling. Actually read or search the thread and try to find someone who doesn't like it. You are getting way too hung up over having I2S conversion. You haven't even tried the digital interface and you're new to the forum, yet you're trying to make definitive statements about "signal degradation with SPDIF conversion" which sounds a lot like the jitter debates that always pop up here.
  
  Quote: 





svyr said:


> The USB input is not galvanically isolated on the DI (have a look, there is no transformer or optical isolation) http://www.tweak-fi.com/apps/blog/show/5029064-the-usb-to-spdif-shoot-out-review-part-2-teralink-x2-vs-jkeny-s-modified-hiface-vs-audio-gd-digital-interface
> I'm sure audio-gd like many other companies prefer to offer a separate box for DI to get more money. I asked for the same USB section as on DI on my 10WM and was told to buy DI instead.
> Doesn't make me pleased at all. I already have USB->Coax converters, I don't want to have 10 boxes on my desk and suspect multistage conversion to/from USB->SPDIF<->I2S/etc.
> 
> It's bad enough being AGD's extended credit facility with their delays in production...


 

 The USB input is galvanically isolated on the DI as has been discussed http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/500369/audio-gd-digital-interface/585#post_6905182 . There is a transformer on the coaxial output as seen in this image http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USBface/DI5.jpg . There is/was a 30% discount on the DI together with the NFB-10. I doubt they make much $$ off the digital interface when you look at the performance level it presents for the price compared to its competition.


----------



## svyr

somestranger26 said:


> The USB input is galvanically isolated on the DI as has been discussed http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/500369/audio-gd-digital-interface/585#post_6905182 . There is a transformer on the coaxial output as seen in this image http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USBface/DI5.jpg . There is/was a 30% discount on the DI together with the NFB-10. I doubt they make much $$ off the digital interface when you look at the performance level it presents for the price compared to its competition.




Correct me if I'm wrong but the usb input isn't isolated. You can clearly see it in the picture. i.e. whatever goes into the DAC has a dirty ground, etc. Sure, the OUT stage for coax is isolated, but what is the point? (again, that's the coax out being isolated which is standard practice.)

here's a quote for ya:' The goal is not only to galvanically isolate the coax output, it's also to do it on the USB input so no grounds will be shared whatsoever. ' from the same link above.


----------



## alexhl

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Reclocking is not a matter of preference, I am not talking about upsampling. Actually read or search the thread and try to find someone who doesn't like it. You are getting way too hung up over having I2S conversion. You haven't even tried the digital interface and you're new to the forum, yet you're trying to make definitive statements about "signal degradation with SPDIF conversion" which sounds a lot like the jitter debates that always pop up here.
> 
> 
> The USB input is galvanically isolated on the DI as has been discussed http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/500369/audio-gd-digital-interface/585#post_6905182 . There is a transformer on the coaxial output as seen in this image http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USBface/DI5.jpg . There is/was a 30% discount on the DI together with the NFB-10. I doubt they make much $$ off the digital interface when you look at the performance level it presents for the price compared to its competition.


 


 Ah yeah I mistook reclocking for upsampling.
   
  I don't think being 'new' to a forum means I should be less outspoken about my opinions

 I'm not 'trying' to make a definitive statement. It is a fact that there is signal degradation using the SPDIF interface due to its flaws.

 In my opinion, from an engineering perspective, one should always strive for the best feasible options available

 Whether or not the degradation is 'audible' is another debate in its entirety.


----------



## somestranger26

Well all of this "signal degradation" sounds great to me and many others. I really think you ought to try the DI at a meet or something rather than being so cynical about it.


----------



## svyr

somestranger26 said:


> Well all of this "signal degradation" sounds great to me and many others. I really think you ought to try the DI at a meet or something rather than being so cynical about it.




this sure reminds me of the 160D thread and blind faith/almost devotion to it from the people  who own a unit. 

I think the question for DI is: would it sound better if it was really async transfer mode USB and galvanically isolated USB input . 

as for DI I find it interesting that ADG managed to phrase the description in such a way that some people thought it was both async transfer mode USB and galvanically isolated USB input  ...


>I don't think being 'new' to a forum means I should be less outspoken about my opinions

Don't worry, he's equally rude to everyone, regardless of post-count


----------



## alexhl

Don't misunderstand, I'm not being cynical.
   
  If anything, I'm all for Audio-GD products. I use one of their sabre dacs along with their preamp and power amp. I'm about to purchase a DI also.
   
  All I'm trying to do is determine whether or not the USB implementation on their Wolfson Dacs are a better option and if not, why isn't it since it uses a better path.


----------



## alexhl

Quote: 





svyr said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Yeah he seems to be getting defensive for all the wrong reasons.


----------



## PhaedrusX

Quote: 





alexhl said:


> Don't misunderstand, I'm not being cynical.
> 
> If anything, I'm all for Audio-GD products. I use one of their sabre dacs along with their preamp and power amp. I'm about to purchase a DI also.
> 
> All I'm trying to do is determine whether or not the USB implementation on their Wolfson Dacs are a better option and if not, why isn't it since it uses a better path.


 

 i wouldn't recommend this thread as a source for any useful technical knowledge. if you're lucky, you might get a prickly attitude. most likely though, it'll be accompanied with some manner of pretentious misinformation.
   
  welcome to Head-Fi, sorry about your rude welcome.


----------



## tim3320070

The DI improves sound from USB- it seems to have a preference over the modded Hiface and I like it better than my old Bel Canto USBlink. It's not that terribly expensive and if you're worried about spending $150-200, then use the standard usb input of whatever device you own.


----------



## alexhl

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> The DI improves sound from USB- it seems to have a preference over the modded Hiface and I like it better than my old Bel Canto USBlink. It's not that terribly expensive and if you're worried about spending $150-200, then use the standard usb input of whatever device you own.


 

 This amount of money is not a 'worry' to me. I merely raised these questions to determine if my money would be better spent on a DI or one of Audio-GD's wolfson DACs with the usb i2s input (considering I already have one of their sabre DACs)


  Quote: 





phaedrusx said:


> i wouldn't recommend this thread as a source for any useful technical knowledge. if you're lucky, you might get a prickly attitude. most likely though, it'll be accompanied with some manner of pretentious misinformation.
> 
> welcome to Head-Fi, sorry about your rude welcome.


 


 Thanks for the welcome. It certainly does look this way. Is it just this thread or does this apply to the entire forum?


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





alexhl said:


> Thanks for the welcome. It certainly does look this way. Is it just this thread or does this apply to the entire forum?


 

 Welcome to Head-fi. I am sorry about your bad experience. Things happens, though not so frequently.


----------



## alexhl

Quote: 





uelover said:


> Welcome to Head-fi. I am sorry about your bad experience. Things happens, though not so frequently.


 

 Hi there,

 Thanks for the welcome. I see you have the starlight usb cable, I just bought one too. How do you find it with the DI?


----------



## Currawong

Kingwa fixed the USB implementation on the NFB-10 and NFB-11.  I know because he sent my NFB-11 back and it works perfectly. The problem he is having at the moment has to do with parts supply issues and he is working on improving the workflow in his business.


----------



## svyr

currawong said:


> Kingwa fixed the USB implementation on the NFB-10 and NFB-11.  I know because he sent my NFB-11 back and it works perfectly. The problem he is having at the moment has to do with parts supply issues and he is working on improving the workflow in his business.




is the fix upgrading the clock to stabilize the USBtoI2S->DAC?


----------



## alexhl

Quote: 





svyr said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I may be assuming things without confirming with Kingwa but I don't think he fixed the USBtoI2S>DAC for the sabre dacs.
 My belief is he resorted to the standard USB implementation most other dac manufacturers use which is to convert usb signal to spdif then to i2s.

 Reasoning? Because he does not list usbtoi2s in his sabre dacs but do for all his wolfson dacs.

 Listing USB to I2s gives him marketing advantage and he would've listed it if the DAC indeed had the feature.


----------



## svyr

alexhl said:


> I may be assuming things without confirming with Kingwa but I don't think he fixed the USBtoI2S>DAC for the sabre dacs.
> My belief is he resorted to the standard USB implementation most other dac manufacturers use which is to convert usb signal to spdif then to i2s.
> 
> Reasoning? Because he does not list usbtoi2s in his sabre dacs but do for all his wolfson dacs.
> ...




sounds reasonable. Email him and ask plz?


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *alexhl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I see you have the starlight usb cable, I just bought one too. How do you find it with the DI?


 

 Hey I have reply you through PM. Don't wanna get flamed, accused by people here.


----------



## alexhl

Quote: 





svyr said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Do you have his direct email? Whenever I email the audio-gd email, Edwin replies and he doesn't really understand the questions I ask.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





alexhl said:


> Do you have his direct email? Whenever I email the audio-gd email, Edwin replies and he doesn't really understand the questions I ask.


 


 His email is listed at audio-gd website too. I have emailed Kingwa before but at times he doesn't get what I was asking too.


----------



## svyr

alexhl said:


> Do you have his direct email? Whenever I email the audio-gd email, Edwin replies and he doesn't really understand the questions I ask.




just use the normal one, but ask Edwin to ask Kingwa. That's what I usually do. Whether that gets to Kingwa, or Edwin 'impersonates' Kingwa  ... who knows .


----------



## BoyNamedSue

Flame suit on as well, but I'm also curious about your impressions of the WW starlight usb cable with the DI. I have the WW ultraviolet usb cable in my chain. I got the DI and ultraviolet around same time, and initially ran them separately to assess their individual impact. It's hard to believe but I was initially more wowed by the improvements from the usb cable than DI, both to my nfb-12. Perhaps the USB cable I was using before was of poor quality.
   
  Quote:


uelover said:


> Hey I have reply you through PM. Don't wanna get flamed, accused by people here.


----------



## Denys

Hi guys,
   
  Simple question here before I ask Kingwa. I found an adaptor (GE) that allows me to choose the DC 2, 4.5, 6, 7.5 or 9 V and it's good to 800MA (whatever that means...) I know Kingwa recommends DC 7V and 400 MA.
   
  I presume I could choose the 7.5 on the adaptor. But the 800MA could this affect the DI in a negative way ?
   
  Thanks for your time
   
  Denys


----------



## lordearl

Nope - won't affect it at all...it is probably a good thing to have more current available ; )


----------



## Denys

Quote: 





lordearl said:


> Nope - won't affect it at all...it is probably a good thing to have more current available ; )


 


   Cool !!! Thanks.... For $19...can't go wrong  !!!
   
  Denys


----------



## WarrenR

Hello.
   
  I'm wondering does the DI work fine with OSX and iTunes?
   
  Cheers.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





warrenr said:


> Hello.
> 
> I'm wondering does the DI work fine with OSX and iTunes?
> 
> Cheers.


 

  
  Yes.


----------



## Alexdad54

I'd really appreciate some help here. I installed and burned-in the new Eastern Electric DAC and tried it using spdif via the DI with a Veloce SPDIF cable. The sound was one thing (tilted a bit too froward for my liking) but what I did have is constant drop-outs. I have read in a couple of threads on other sites that the Audio-GD DI (as well as the Teralink and the Stello) pass on too much jitter for the chip in the EE DAC to handle, the new Sabre ESS 9018. I tried the DI on both a W7 pc server and a Linux server and both had drop-puts every 45 seconds or so.  When I disconnected the DI and fed the EE DAC directly with the USB cable, the drop-outs disappeared.
  Is this a well-known issue? Any possible solutions/ideas/comments appreciated.
  I may not keep the DAC anyway, as I have to do an A/B with my modded Havana but I had been pretty happy with the DI and don't really want to go to an aysnchronous USB-direct system (yet).....
   
  Edit: would turning on the upsampling to 192 help? It's currently running in the default mode but I did install the updgraded clock in the DI for a future try-out and am wondering now if that would help the jitter issue....


----------



## acenes

Quote: 





alexdad54 said:


> Edit: would turning on the upsampling to 192 help? It's currently running in the default mode but I did install the updgraded clock in the DI for a future try-out and am wondering now if that would help the jitter issue....


 
  Quick answer:  Yes , enabling the DI upsampling lowers the jitter... you can read more about other dropout fixes that worked for other Head-fier's at the Audio-GD NFB-11 thread , page 57 - post # 853 seems to confirm this.


----------



## WarrenR

Hello.
   
  I'm thinking about purchasing the DI with the improved clock, but I've just read on the Audio_gd website that 'The clock only active while setting at upsampling output'.  So if you don't use the upsample facility on the DI the clock is a waste of $23???
   
  If I buy the DI it will be feeding a Dacmagic, which upsamples to 24bit 192khz anyway.  So will feeding the Dacmagic an upsampled signal only for the Dacmagic to upsample again be fine on SQ??
   
  Cheers.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote:


alexdad54 said:


> Edit: would turning on the upsampling to 192 help? It's currently running in the default mode but I did install the updgraded clock in the DI for a future try-out and am wondering now if that would help the jitter issue....


 
   
  I would recommend 96khz over 192khz (or at least try both and see which you like) as it's a lot more subtle of an effect.
   
  Quote: 





warrenr said:


> I'm thinking about purchasing the DI with the improved clock, but I've just read on the Audio_gd website that 'The clock only active while setting at upsampling output'.  So if you don't use the upsample facility on the DI the clock is a waste of $23???
> 
> If I buy the DI it will be feeding a Dacmagic, which upsamples to 24bit 192khz anyway.  So will feeding the Dacmagic an upsampled signal only for the Dacmagic to upsample again be fine on SQ??


 

 Yes the clock is a waste of money if you don't use upsampling on the DI. It might be better or worse upsampling with the DI vs Dacmagic, you'd just have to try it yourself. With the Dacmagic I think it would be better to save your money and wait to buy the DI till you have a better DAC that will realize the improvements more.


----------



## WarrenR

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Quote:
> 
> I would recommend 96khz over 192khz (or at least try both and see which you like) as it's a lot more subtle of an effect.
> 
> ...


 

 So you don't think its worth buying the DI??  For a modest outlay I'm sure it will improve the Dacmagic.  I'm finding that the Dacmagic likes a clean signal, but does ok with a jittery one, but 'OK' is not good enough for me and smears the soundstage somewhat and the top end is a little harsh.  I just want a cheap box that reduces jitter and the DI looks the best out Hiface and V-link.
   
  The Dacmagic is just a stop gap for the moment.  At the end of the year I want to invest in my music system so will probably get a Audio-gd NFB2 or something similar.  I don't think the DI will come down in price, if anything it will rise due to cost of material, so buying now I feel is worth it.
   
  Your thoughts??
   
  PS - I will not buy the upgraded clock as its probably not worth it in my case.
   
  Cheers.


----------



## kr0gg

talking about different PSUs - can anyone measure volts/ampers of Audio-gd's PSU?
  it would be much easier to select a suitable one then.


----------



## lordearl

Just get a 6v sealed lead acid battery, it's far better than any power supply from the mains!


----------



## WarrenR

Quote: 





lordearl said:


> Just get a 6v sealed lead acid battery, it's far better than any power supply from the mains!


 


   Really??  How long does a charge last?


----------



## Denys

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> talking about different PSUs - can anyone measure volts/ampers of Audio-gd's PSU?
> it would be much easier to select a suitable one then.


 

 I just bought yesterday a GE Universal adapter PSU for $20 for my DI.
   
  I choose 7.5 V in lieu of 6V and it has 800MA (Kingwa recommends 7V and 400MA minimum). Result is fantastic.... no more hums which came from the bad signal of the USB port. I believe Kingwa should mention that on his web site......The PSU does make a significant change when the USB port comes from a cheap laptop...
   
  And by the way, yes it's worth to purchase the DI to improve the sound of the DacMagic, and I belive it's worth to purchase the upgraded clock now as more and more we find hi def music available....$23 is not a big amount to invest...
   
  My thoughts anyway
   
  Denys


----------



## uelover

Hmm if I am not wrong, the upgraded clock will only be used when we set DI to 'upsampling mode' which will upsample everything, regardless of their native sampling rate, to the desired rate.
   
  However, when running on 'bypass mode', if we were feed 96khz high-res file into the DI and let the DI bypass it to the DAC, the upgraded clock will not be used.
   
  Am I correct to say that? Since no upsampling was performed.


----------



## lordearl

Quote: 





warrenr said:


> Really??  How long does a charge last?


 

 300mA drawn, so assuming you get a 12aH 6v lead battery, you'd get at least 30 hours!


----------



## FauDrei

warrenr said:


> So you don't think its worth buying the DI??  For a modest outlay I'm sure it will improve the Dacmagic.  I'm finding that the Dacmagic likes a clean signal, but does ok with a jittery one, but 'OK' is not good enough for me and smears the soundstage somewhat and the top end is a little harsh.  I just want a cheap box that reduces jitter and the DI looks the best out Hiface and V-link.
> 
> ...
> 
> PS - I will not buy the upgraded clock as its probably not worth it in my case.


 
   
  Like Denys I also think DI is worth buying. I can confirm it betters DacMagic's USB input and I prefer it to battery modded HiFace and Musiland USD-01 with DacMagic.
   
  I would add - get A version with TCXO and with it's power supply:

 If you ever get squeezebox or similar media player - DI with SPDIF input will improve SPDIF out of such media player... as well as SPDIF output of your cheap 'ol CD player when inserted between player and a DAC.
 TCXO is relatively cheap and you WILL sooner or later use DI's upsampling.
 A-GD's PSU is well worth $75. You will not get similar linear Class A PSU in aluminum enclosure nowhere near that price. Adapters that can be had for $20 or less are SMPS which "inject" HF noise on their own, so instead laptop's PSU noise/loops you introduce noise from SMPS adapter (although - yes, this noise may be lower than laptop PSU noise and yes, any kind of adapter "relieve" laptop's USB port from the task of "producing" 0,3A for DI).


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





faudrei said:


> TCXO is relatively cheap and you *WILL sooner or later use DI's upsampling*.


 

 I am sorry but I will have to disagree on this one. I simply dislike DI with upsampling using TXCO clock. It is a user preference, not a predestiny.


----------



## blankdisc

I agree. Upsampling makes the sound a little bit unnatural to my ears. Plus it's not that hard to get hi-res music these days, so I can only see it becomes less and less important. There is no point to upsample the music if it's already 24bit/96k. 

The only benefit of upsampling through TXCO is to further reduce jitter. 



uelover said:


> I am sorry but I will have to disagree on this one. I simply dislike DI with upsampling and I am using TXCO clock too. It is a user preference, not a fact of life.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





warrenr said:


> So you don't think its worth buying the DI??  For a modest outlay I'm sure it will improve the Dacmagic.  I'm finding that the Dacmagic likes a clean signal, but does ok with a jittery one, but 'OK' is not good enough for me and smears the soundstage somewhat and the top end is a little harsh.  I just want a cheap box that reduces jitter and the DI looks the best out Hiface and V-link.
> 
> The Dacmagic is just a stop gap for the moment.  At the end of the year I want to invest in my music system so will probably get a Audio-gd NFB2 or something similar.  I don't think the DI will come down in price, if anything it will rise due to cost of material, so buying now I feel is worth it.


 
  If you'll be upgrading your dac then I think it's worth it. Though, if you're gonna be getting something like the NFB2 you might as well buy at the same time and save on shipping.
  
  Quote: 





uelover said:


> Hmm if I am not wrong, the upgraded clock will only be used when we set DI to 'upsampling mode' which will upsample everything, regardless of their native sampling rate, to the desired rate.
> 
> However, when running on 'bypass mode', if we were feed 96khz high-res file into the DI and let the DI bypass it to the DAC, the upgraded clock will not be used.
> 
> Am I correct to say that? Since no upsampling was performed.


 
  Yes.
  Quote: 





uelover said:


> I am sorry but I will have to disagree on this one. snip It is a user preference, not a predestiny.


 

 x2


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





> A-GD's PSU is well worth $75


 

 well, i wouldn't be so sure. you should also consider the shipping price. so it's over $100 actually.


----------



## kr0gg

in my case it's around $125


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> in my case it's around $125


 


  What about the adapter Kingwa recommended?


----------



## WarrenR

Quote: 





faudrei said:


> Like Denys I also think DI is worth buying. I can confirm it betters DacMagic's USB input and I prefer it to battery modded HiFace and Musiland USD-01 with DacMagic.
> 
> I would add - get A version with TCXO and with it's power supply:
> 
> ...


 


   Hi.
   
  Thats interesting but at the same time kind of a big investment when I only wanted to spend £100 to reduce jittter. 
   
  I'm gonna go back to the drawing board, I possbily may try the Hiface or maybe sell the Dacmagic and buy an Arcam rDac to keep me ticking over till the end of year upgrade.


----------



## niranhopper

Having owned the products that you have listed, i feel the DACMagic and Hiface combo is very bright and bad match for bright headphones. The rDac on the other hand is a better match for bright headphones.
  Quote: 





warrenr said:


> Hi.
> 
> Thats interesting but at the same time kind of a big investment when I only wanted to spend £100 to reduce jittter.
> 
> I'm gonna go back to the drawing board, I possbily may try the Hiface or maybe sell the Dacmagic and buy an Arcam rDac to keep me ticking over till the end of year upgrade.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





warrenr said:


> Hi.
> 
> Thats interesting but at the same time kind of a big investment when I only wanted to spend £100 to reduce jittter.
> 
> I'm gonna go back to the drawing board, I possbily may try the Hiface or maybe sell the Dacmagic and buy an Arcam rDac to keep me ticking over till the end of year upgrade.


 

 Get the DI Ver B without PSU and TXCO clock. That config alone is better than Hiface.


----------



## Currawong

Buy a better DAC. Attempting to fix a mediocre DAC with other gear isn't the solution IMO.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





currawong said:


> Buy a better DAC. Attempting to fix a mediocre DAC with other gear isn't the solution IMO.


 
  Fixing DACMagic with DI Ver B is a good budget solution to get better sound out at a low price.
   
  DI will still stay even when one upgrades his DAC unless 1) The DAC has an excellent USB interface or 2) all the interfaces have been replaced by USB 3 or Firewire.


----------



## WarrenR

I understand what your saying but the Dacmagic is only a stop gap until the end of the year.  If I buy the DI I can use it again on my next DAC (Probably a Audio_Gd model).
   
  Quote:


currawong said:


> Buy a better DAC. Attempting to fix a mediocre DAC with other gear isn't the solution IMO.


----------



## Currawong

Fair enough in that case. It will probably help you assess the quality of the digital input of whatever you get by how much improvement it makes.


----------



## Alexdad54

Quote: 





acenes said:


> Quick answer:  Yes , enabling the DI upsampling lowers the jitter... you can read more about other dropout fixes that worked for other Head-fier's at the Audio-GD NFB-11 thread , page 57 - post # 853 seems to confirm this.


 


  Just an update,
   I did try the 96 upsampling option with the DI into the EE DAC but it collapsed the soundstage and lost a lot of detail. I then tried the USB directly into the EE DAC (by-passing the DI)  and while that worked well and had no drop-outs, it was not at all synergistic with my system, producing tremendous detail and soundstaging but way too bright on the highs to me. I have since discovered that the EE DAC works extremely well for some but that it needs a very-low jitter feed or it doesn't lock properly and walso works best with systems that are more-laid back. I put the DI back into my Linx-based system withthe MDHT Havana and it went back to being warmer and more musical albeit less detailed.


----------



## acenes

Did you try it with just the "NO-C" jumper "ON" = 48K ?  I found that it too shrank the soundstage too, but 48K upsampling had more detail than 96K , but this is so subtle to me , not collapsed , some detail lost yes , but not a lot.  You have costlier equipment than I do , must have better listening skills too , (As knowing how to spot differences quickly).
   
  I'm still breaking in the D.I. and TCXO upsampling in with a NFB-11 (non-usb) , I have about 80 hours on the TCXO , and 120 hours with the NFB-11. I don't like 192K at all , 96K is so-so , 48K better detail for me.  DI connected by BNC to NFB-11 , haven't tried it yet with Coaxial out, maybe in a week or two.


----------



## Alexdad54

Quote: 





acenes said:


> Did you try it with just the "NO-C" jumper "ON" = 48K ?  I found that it too shrank the soundstage too, but 48K upsampling had more detail than 96K , but this is so subtle to me , not collapsed , some detail lost yes , but not a lot.  You have costlier equipment than I do , must have better listening skills too , (As knowing how to spot differences quickly).
> 
> I'm still breaking in the D.I. and TCXO upsampling in with a NFB-11 (non-usb) , I have about 80 hours on the TCXO , and 120 hours with the NFB-11. I don't like 192K at all , 96K is so-so , 48K better detail for me.  DI connected by BNC to NFB-11 , haven't tried it yet with Coaxial out, maybe in a week or two.


 

 Thanks for the props but I wouldn't really consider myself to have really good 'listening skills" it was just that the difference was really quite stark...I didn't try the NO-C jumper setting as with both the upsampling and stock settings, the EE DAC still wouldn't lock properly and kept having frequent drop-outs. When I tried it with straight USB-in, it was still way too bright and dynamic for my liking and system, too "hard" on the highs...I'm back to the DI with my MHDT Havana and it does sound less dynamic but much sweeter.
  nother question, I am very curious about the Audio-GD NFB-2, does it "play nice" with the DI? I am still interested in having a hi-rez option.....


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





alexdad54 said:


> Thanks for the props but I wouldn't really consider myself to have really good 'listening skills" it was just that the difference was really quite stark...I didn't try the NO-C jumper setting as with both the upsampling and stock settings, the EE DAC still wouldn't lock properly and kept having frequent drop-outs. When I tried it with straight USB-in, it was still way* too bright and dynamic* for my liking and system, too "hard" on the highs...I'm back to the DI with *my MHDT Havana and it does sound less dynamic *but much sweeter.
> nother question, I am very curious about the Audio-GD NFB-2, does it "play nice" with the DI? I am still interested in having a hi-rez option.....


 
   
  Hi A -
   
  I'm not sure if I understand what you mean by *"dynamic"*?  Are you talking about dynamic range?
   
  E


----------



## acenes

Quote: 





alexdad54 said:


> Thanks for the props but I wouldn't really consider myself to have really good 'listening skills" it was just that the difference was really quite stark...I didn't try the NO-C jumper setting as with both the upsampling and stock settings, the EE DAC still wouldn't lock properly and kept having frequent drop-outs. When I tried it with straight USB-in, it was still way too bright and dynamic for my liking and system, too "hard" on the highs...I'm back to the DI with my MHDT Havana and it does sound less dynamic but much sweeter.
> nother question, I am very curious about the Audio-GD NFB-2, does it "play nice" with the DI? I am still interested in having a hi-rez option.....


 

 I do know the D.I. plays very good with my NFB-12 (I used it with No Upsamling for about 200 hrs. , never a dropout), and it has Dual  Wolfson WM8741 inside like the NFB-2.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





acenes said:


> Did you try it with just the "NO-C" jumper "ON" = 48K ?  I found that it too shrank the soundstage too, but 48K upsampling had more detail than 96K , but this is so subtle to me , not collapsed , some detail lost yes , but not a lot.  You have costlier equipment than I do , must have better listening skills too , (As knowing how to spot differences quickly).
> 
> I'm still breaking in the D.I. and TCXO upsampling in with a NFB-11 (non-usb) , I have about 80 hours on the TCXO , and 120 hours with the NFB-11. I don't like 192K at all , 96K is so-so , 48K better detail for me.  DI connected by BNC to NFB-11 , haven't tried it yet with Coaxial out, maybe in a week or two.


 

 no-upsampling on DI has the best detail. =)


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





uelover said:


> no-upsampling on DI has the best detail. =)


 

 I agree, I just switched back to native sampling.
   
  Edit: Strangely, I'm getting dropouts again with upsampling off...


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> I agree, I just switched back to native sampling.
> 
> Edit: Strangely, I'm getting dropouts again with upsampling off...


 

 Hmm maybe its the loose cable? I get that often whenever I play around with the jumper setting.


----------



## PPkiller

hate to know that upsampling will remove some details or even reduce the soundstage.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





ppkiller said:


> hate to know that upsampling will remove some details or even reduce the soundstage.


 
  I think it really depends on the technique applied for upsampling, be it through hardware or software.
   
  I love the software upsampling through one of the program on my Mac but I just dislike that of DI's even with the upgraded clock.
   
  For me the best upsampling is one which will remain all the details and emotion in the music while at the same time remove all the sharp edges in the music =)


----------



## FauDrei

Heads up for those with version A DI (and external PSU)...
   
  It seems that DI might be much better reclocker than USB to SPDIF converter. I do not know how had I missed this, most probably when I got my DI I've just checked SPDIF to SPDIF functionality and moved forward with DI modding. But after reading an interesting finding in NFB-11 thread (thanks vpsporb), I chained "old" Musiland Monitor 01 USD with DI and DacMagic (yah, my RE-1/7 is unfortunatelly not operational by my mistake). The results were quite interesting to say the least. Have to evaluate further for firmer verdict, but what I was hearing deserves at least a heads up in DI thread.
   
  So guys, if you have the HW required for this test - do try it. Get a SPDIF transport, RCA coax it to DI SPDIF input, connect DI SPDIF output to your DAC; power the DI from external PSU. The SPDIF transport can be anything from cheap 'ol CD player to HiFace and the likes (Squeezebox Touch anyone?). Please report results.


----------



## Currawong

I did compare it with the (both electronically and audibly) poor output of my SACD player and it made for quite an improvement. I haven't tried again using the PSU as well though. 

I've given into curiosity and bought an Audiophillio however, so once I've sorted out moving into a bigger apartment, I'll do some comparisons.


----------



## kr0gg

I am really mad. really-really.
  here's my story:
   
  1)      On February 25 I’ve sent payment for NFB-11
  2)      On March 16 when asked about shipping time Edwin responded that it will be “next week”
  3)      On April 7 while my NFB-11 wasn't ready yet, I’ve decided to add more money in order to get a Digital Interface sent with NFB-11. So i've sent that money too the same day.
  4)      On April 13, after almost 50 days of making my NFB-11, Edwin answered that finally (!!!) “The NFB-11 is ok this week, but the Digital Interface need ready and next week”
  5)      On April 18 Edwin said that my package was already shipped (which was obviously a lie)
  6)      On April 20 I wrote Edwin that “i've read some stories on Head-fi and russian forums about how you lie to people that you send equipment, but actually do it with a delay of 2 weeks” and….
  7)      On April 21 I finally received DHL tracking number … it said that my item was shipped the same day (April 21)
  8)      Today is April 26 I’ve finally received the package…but it only contained NFB-11. And the included invoice said only about it (i.e. "headphone amplifier")
   
  I should say that I really respect Audio-gd’s work and the quality of their products – these guys do a great job.
  But this kind of service…well, you know….


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> I am really mad. really-really.
> here's my story:
> 
> 1)      On February 25 I’ve sent payment for NFB-11
> ...


 

 I empathize with you. Was really mad with how they treated my DI order too. I love the quality of their product as well as their value-for-money, but that is one of the reason why I am sticking with Meier Audio.


----------



## FauDrei

currawong said:


> I've given into curiosity and bought an Audiophillio however, so once I've sorted out moving into a bigger apartment, I'll do some comparisons.


 

 Curra, can you please give a brief Audiophilleo initial impression / DI comparison? I am contemplating about getting Audiophilleo2...


----------



## Nada

If you are thinking of getting an Audiophilleo I think tis best to just do it. Ive heard the AP2 and have the DI A with its PSU but no TXCO yet. AP2 was better and was very sweet and coherent. Audiophilleo give you 30 days to try at home. Thats the only way to find out if it will work for you. Be warned that despite the big expense it might be very hard to return it.


----------



## Mambosenior

Concerning SPDIF-in or USB-in on the DI (version A with PSU):
   
  Last night I tried MacBook Pro (Flac)—>M2Tech HiFace—>via coax—>DI (no oversampling)—>NFB-3; and then MacBook Pro—>Via USB (Locus Design)—DI (no oversampling)—>NFB-3.
   
  Preliminary results, after about an hour of listening to two songs from k.d. lang’s _Ingenue_:
   
  With HiFace (Coax) there was a small amount of raspiness to the sound. Acoustic guitars, in particular, sounded unnatural. I initially perceived a somewhat larger soundstage but on further listening concluded that it felt artificial. The USB out was ultimately more realistic-sounding and satisfying, with truer instrumental timbres and lacking the (slight) artifacts that I heard from the Coax connection.
   
  Please take into consideration—those that believe that cables make a difference—that my Coax cable was NOT in the same price bracket (although a solid performer [Blue Jeans RCA/RCA]) as the Locus Design USB cable. I will try it again later with a different Coax cable and using only classical music.


----------



## FauDrei

Interesting. I will try my modded HiFace in the same configuration and see what happens...


----------



## Sid-Fi

Very interesting impressions. Thanks for sharing and linking the post in question. Does anyone have a few ideas of a few good value sound cards that include coaxial out? I'm wondering how much it would run to get one that would bring out the improvements vpsporb described. I only have optical out of my mobo or straight USB using a WyreWorld Ultraviolet cable.
  
  Quote: 





faudrei said:


> Heads up for those with version A DI (and external PSU)...
> 
> It seems that DI might be much better reclocker than USB to SPDIF converter. I do not know how had I missed this, most probably when I got my DI I've just checked SPDIF to SPDIF functionality and moved forward with DI modding. But after reading an interesting finding in NFB-11 thread (thanks vpsporb), I chained "old" Musiland Monitor 01 USD with DI and DacMagic (yah, my RE-1/7 is unfortunatelly not operational by my mistake). The results were quite interesting to say the least. Have to evaluate further for firmer verdict, but what I was hearing deserves at least a heads up in DI thread.
> 
> So guys, if you have the HW required for this test - do try it. Get a SPDIF transport, RCA coax it to DI SPDIF input, connect DI SPDIF output to your DAC; power the DI from external PSU. The SPDIF transport can be anything from cheap 'ol CD player to HiFace and the likes (Squeezebox Touch anyone?). Please report results.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

What FauDrei describes reminds me of the Monarchy Audio device (DIP classic) sold a few years back (which is still popluar to some degree AFAIK) and the newer DIP Combo. Refining the timing of the stream is always a good tweak worth persuing (provided it's relative to the cost of the gear you are trying to improve upon).
   
  Peete.


----------



## ccha

Quote: 





pricklely peete said:


> What FauDrei describes reminds me of the Monarchy Audio device (DIP classic) sold a few years back (which is still popluar to some degree AFAIK) and the newer DIP Combo. Refining the timing of the stream is always a good tweak worth persuing (provided it's relative to the cost of the gear you are trying to improve upon).
> 
> Peete.


 

  

 OffTopic: The Monarchy DIP Combo made an immediate, noticeable impact on my $1000 10 year old CD player that been converted to a transport going into a Monarchy Audio DAC. Bass was tightened up and all instruments had more air behind it. Highly recommended.

  

 OnTopic: I have a DI (B model with upgraded PSU) coming next week and will be testing it with the same Monarchy Audio DIP and NM24 DAC. For laughs and giggles, I also have an older Audio Alchemy DTI 1.0 jitter reducer in the closet that I'll be swapping into the chain. Should be fun. I'll let you guys know the results.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Nice, I look forward to your impressions. I actually came really close to ordering a DIP a year or two ago and had forgotten about it. I'm actually leaning now twards picking up an Audiophilleo2 instead of the DI and PSU combo. If anyone has compared both, I would definitely appreciate a PM to not derail this thread.
  
  Quote: 





ccha said:


> OffTopic: The Monarchy DIP Combo made an immediate, noticeable impact on my $1000 10 year old CD player that been converted to a transport going into a Monarchy Audio DAC. Bass was tightened up and all instruments had more air behind it. Highly recommended.
> 
> 
> 
> OnTopic: I have a DI (B model with upgraded PSU) coming next week and will be testing it with the same Monarchy Audio DIP and NM24 DAC. For laughs and giggles, I also have an older Audio Alchemy DTI 1.0 jitter reducer in the closet that I'll be swapping into the chain. Should be fun. I'll let you guys know the results.


----------



## Currawong

I started a new thread for the Audiophilleo as I couldn't find a suitable one: 
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/551716/audiophilleo-1-and-2-usb-to-s-pdif-transport


----------



## Sid-Fi

Awesome, I can't wait to hear your impressions as I am thinking about ordering an Audiophilleo2 this weekend. 
  
  Quote: 





currawong said:


> I started a new thread for the Audiophilleo as I couldn't find a suitable one:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/551716/audiophilleo-1-and-2-usb-to-s-pdif-transport


----------



## Sid-Fi

I decided to go the Audiophilleo2 route instead of the DI & PSU combo. I ordered it tonight and will try and post impressions over on the new thread that Currawong started if anyone is interested. FYI.


----------



## ozzy23

Hello I am a newbe,
  can anyone suggest as me intenssion is to use AUDIO GD DSP3 with CMP .
  So is DSP3 ASIO compatible ?
  If that so can I use THUNEAU ALLOCATOR over DSP3 instead of my ESI JULIA soundcard.
  Thanks the membrs in advance for any kind of useful answer
  Zoran


----------



## punk_guy182

I know that it has been awhile but to those who I sold a TCXO module for the DI, you can leave me some feedback at the following link.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/540132/tcxo-24-576mhz-1ppm-clock-upgrade-for-the-audio-gd-digital-interface


----------



## tim3320070

Duh, sorry!


----------



## Alexdad54

A quick (and definitely noob) question: I have a Black Cat Veloce SPDIF cable to run from my DI to the DAC. It is actually a BNC-terminated cable that comes with 2 BNC-RCA adapters attached. Can I run the BNC out from the DI to the SPDIF input on my MHDT Havana (which has no BNC input)  without any problems?  The adapters are easy to  remove and I'm asking because the Black Cat cable is a bit too loose for my liking using both the DI and Havana RCA inputs and I'd like to remedy at least one  of these terminations.
  thanks.


----------



## tim3320070

Yes this will work


----------



## kr0gg

i have FINALLY received my long-ago ordered DI, inserted the TCXO sold to me by punk_guy, switched the thingy to 48khz (since my DAC doesn't understand higher values)
  and i should say....WOW
  finally my Mars Volta collection sounds the way it should
  sound decays, vocals, details - everything improved nicely.
   
  you guys says that it can get even better?
  that means that now it's time to find a suitable 220v power adapter since it was too expensive for me to buy audio-gd's one for $110+ shipped


----------



## kr0gg

one problem here.
  would be nice if anyone could share their experience.
   
  i've got the DI (without PSU) connected to my PC. then goes my dac, amp, headphones.
   
  usually if i turn up the amp's volume to the maximum i can hear electrical background hum. that is a normal thing because i would never listen music on maximum. i guess my headphones would blow up 
   
  the problem is that when i connect the DI to my computer, i can hear a new electrical hum added it's not loud, but it bothers me. it also kind of pulsates.
  i've tried connecting the DI to the notebook and found the hum too. the only difference was it wasn't pulsating as much.
   
  can anyone try listening to the silence with high volume on amp no music playing and report if their DI behaves the same?


----------



## Denys

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> one problem here.
> would be nice if anyone could share their experience.
> 
> i've got the DI (without PSU) connected to my PC. then goes my dac, amp, headphones.
> ...


 

 Hi,
   
  I just got my DI one month ago, and ended up with the same problem as you. The DI being connected to my laptop caused a hum with my Woo 6SE. This is due to a ground loop. I solved the problem by purchasing an electrical plug with three pins female (accepting the ground) and two pins out (without the ground). Total cost: $ 1.49 plus taxes !!!!
   
  Since then... it's dead silent !!!!
   
  Hope this helps....
   
  Denys


----------



## kr0gg

i don't have electrical ground itself in my house.
  so your advice won't help me


----------



## Denys

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> i don't have electrical ground itself in my house.
> so your advice won't help me


 


   Your laptop plug has three pins... no???
   
  Denys


----------



## kr0gg

my pc and laptop have 3 pins. the point is that the ground pin in receptacle is connected to nowhere.


----------



## ninjikiran

Best upgrade you can make is call an electrician   If all else fails or you live in an APT building there are probably solutions that are fairly complicated(which don't result in a complete re-wire)


----------



## svyr

kr0gg said:


> one problem here.
> would be nice if anyone could share their experience.
> 
> i've got the DI (without PSU) connected to my PC. then goes my dac, amp, headphones.
> ...




http://www.head-fi.org/search.php?search=usb+isolator . But before that, try using the notebook on battery power and see whether the noise goes away.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Yep sounds like a ground loop issue.......there a number of solutions for that problem. Ebtech has a good one.... http://www.ebtechaudio.com/humxdes.html
   
  Here is a helpful pdf link for detecting and dealing with hum/ground loops   http://www.ebtechaudio.com/findloop.pdf
   
   
  Peete.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





svyr said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Now why didn't I think of that.


----------



## kr0gg

yep. i thought about the ground loop, so i used the notebook on battery power.
  the noise was there.


----------



## kr0gg

also, calling an electritian won't help. since most of the buildings in my country don't have grounding.
  they were built this way in Soviet Union times.


----------



## rlawli

With such great electrical service you should probably regulate, condition and filter your ac power just on general principles. Given that the DI, its PS and cables are the only changes in your system, other than concluding it's in the DI, I can suggest several things you have probably already tried: 1) try connecting to the DI from your pc through the USB and coax ports; 2) make sure none of your cables, including power cords, are crossed or coiled together; 3) most importantly, make sure the DI is not (a) sitting directly on your pc or other equipment or (b) near your equipment's (or other electrical devices') cable and/or power cord runs. I had a similar problem with an Audio-gd NFB-11 and was able to induce hum in each of the ways enumerated in 1 & 2 above. In part, I suspect this results from the DI's all aluminium case (with no feet, just metal screws) and the fact the DI also is not isolated from its internals (big common ground?) so the case can act like an antenna.


----------



## ninjikiran

Thats why I said house, even in the US if you live in a building with poor grounding your not going to pay to have the entire thing re-wired 
   
  I am lucky where I live, direct to wall is perfect with no hum or anything  and perfect grounds.  But to err on the safe side of things I do use a power conditioner. 
  Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> also, calling an electritian won't help. since most of the buildings in my country don't have grounding.
> they were built this way in Soviet Union times.


----------



## kr0gg

by the way - have found a 7.5v 1a PSU in my closet and connected it to DI.
  yes. there is a difference. and i like it.
  less harshness, more analogue.


----------



## Denys

I also add a PSU with 7.5 v and 800 MA...
   
  I have heard a difference in the living room, but not in my bedroom until I removed the ground pin.
   
  Denys


----------



## rlawli

>by the way - have found a 7.5v 1a PSU in my closet and connected it to DI....
   
  I have a closet like that.


----------



## borrego

I wonder why not many DI owners try swapping in "faster" 74VHC04 HEX inverter chip to the SPDIF driver as an upgrade. The 74VHC04 chips are dirty cheap (cost less than 25 cents?) and in my opinion offers much more improvement to the sound than a PSU would.
   
  I am using a TI 74AHC04 "automobile spec" hex inverter. It is probably the cheapest VHC spec hex inverter chip and it "sharpens" up the sound considerably.
   
  Please note that the AHC/VHC spec chip will make the DI to sound "harsh" at the beginning. Just listen to it for a few hours and it shall have much of the harshness removed.


----------



## kr0gg

what exactly is that "74VHC04 HEX" can it be changed without soldering?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> what exactly is that "74VHC04 HEX" can it be changed without soldering?


 


  If you pop the lid on the unit have a look at the 14 pin IC  ( link to pic. http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USBface/DI5.jpg ..the HEX chip is labeled as the 75 ohm driver)...the Hex inverter will be clearly marked and it likely in a DIP (dual in line pin) socket making the swap to the better part a 10 second job (once the chassis lid is off). By the looks of the pic it's not soldered in making the swap pretty easy. Just note the crescent marking on the chip (half circle indent) for proper orientation in the socket.
   
  It's a worthwhile upgrade considering the cost....maybe A-gd could adopt this better sounding IC for standard use ?
   
  Peete.


----------



## uelover

Sounds cool. Techie noob needs some help here.


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





pricklely peete said:


> It's a worthwhile upgrade considering the cost....maybe A-gd could adopt this better sounding IC for standard use ?
> 
> Peete.


 


  From the place I bought the 74AHC04, the "original" 74HC04 is actually more expensive... costs like 50 cents or so... The original 74HC04 chip could be there for sound tuning purpose.
   
  For the low cost of the HEX inverter chip, one can actually buy all the variants of 74LS04, 74HCU04, 74VHC04.... from different manufacturers to find the most preferred sound. It is cheaper than opamp rolling.


----------



## kr0gg

oh. by the way. i forgot to add that even connecting a D-link PSU removed the noise which worried me.
   
  as about 74AHC04 - i find those on ebay of different types, but sold by 10-15 units
  but shipping them to my country is pretty expensive


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





borrego said:


> I wonder why not many DI owners try swapping in "faster" 74VHC04 HEX inverter chip to the SPDIF driver as an upgrade. The 74VHC04 chips are dirty cheap (cost less than 25 cents?) and in my opinion offers much more improvement to the sound than a PSU would.
> 
> I am using a TI 74AHC04 "automobile spec" hex inverter. It is probably the cheapest VHC spec hex inverter chip and it "sharpens" up the sound considerably.
> 
> Please note that the AHC/VHC spec chip will make the DI to sound "harsh" at the beginning. Just listen to it for a few hours and it shall have much of the harshness removed.


 
   
  Just ordered 5 74VHC04N from Mouser. Thanks for the tip.


----------



## kr0gg

checked ebay again, couldn't find any appropriate ones.
  as i understand, i have to look for 74VHC04~ and 74VHC04~ in DIP packages?
  are there any other suitable model numbers?


----------



## borrego

kr0gg said:


> checked ebay again, couldn't find any appropriate ones.
> as i understand, i have to look for 74VHC04~ and 74VHC04~ in DIP packages?
> are there any other suitable model numbers?




Try to buy from electronic component stores instead of from ebay. I bought mine from element 14 (farnell)

You need DIP format chip. The VHC variants are with lower "propagation delay" value which give a more "focused" sound, like applying a sharpen filter to a picture. The stock HC variants would give a "smoother" sound. There are also the HCU unbuffered variant which is not supposed to be compatible but may work and give another sonic signature.


----------



## kr0gg

I live in Moldova. That's Europe, but only geographically 
  We don't have any good electronic component stores here. That leaves only buying it over internet.
  For example, mouser.com asks 80 euros for shipping anything.
   
  shipping small items from ebay with untracked mail costs around $7-$10 from US and UK
  so the best option would be to find a seller with reasonable shipping pricing and to order a set of different IC's from him.


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> I live in Moldova. That's Europe, but only geographically


 

 Perhaps you can try RS? http://www.rs-components.com/index.html


----------



## sfogar

Hi,
   
  so my unit (with upgraded clock) has been shipped...
   
  Can you please tell me which is the preferred protocol (Wasapi, asio, etc.) to use under Win7 (and also the preferred player of course)
   
  My Dac is a Buffalo II based DIY dac.
   
  AF


----------



## kr0gg

when using Foobar, i received best results with Ploytec ASIO drivers.
  default windows drivers even when streamed with WASAPI sounded muddy to me. (though WASAPI sounded better than DS)


----------



## FauDrei

borrego said:


> You need DIP format chip. The VHC variants are with lower "propagation delay" value which give a more "focused" sound, like applying a sharpen filter to a picture. The stock HC variants would give a "smoother" sound. There are also the HCU unbuffered variant which is not supposed to be compatible but may work and give another sonic signature.


 

  HCU do work... possibly even better than VHC (it is just that I can not recall which one I left inside as my preference).


----------



## Eunegis

Quote:


kr0gg said:


> when using Foobar, i received best results with Ploytec ASIO drivers.
> default windows drivers even when streamed with WASAPI sounded muddy to me. (though WASAPI sounded better than DS)


 


  Hi kr0gg,
  Hi everyone else who might know,
   
  how did you manage to get the Ploytec drivers working with the DI? Did you add lines to the .inf-files containing vendor's-ID, etc.? If yes, how did you do it precisely?
   
  Aren't the Ploytec drivers derived from e.g. the Aqvox drivers? How much do the Ploytec drivers cost if I decide to purchase them?
   
  Thanks,
  Eunegis


----------



## svyr

eunegis said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Hi kr0gg,
> ...




Aqvox uses OEM Ploytec, not the other way around...Ploytec drivers support te7022l, but not completely (not 24b/96k?). You can force the install if it doesn't pick up auto.


----------



## kr0gg

i can (could) easily stream 24/96 by Ploytec drivers. those are (were) 2.8.40 version
  these drivers are a little buggy with frequency change (i.e it sometimes "falls out" when you switch between 44,48,96 tracks), but it sounds pretty nice.
  also i had to uncheck the "input" box in driver settings every time music format changed in order to stop "noisy" sound. unchecking that box took too much time, so...
   
  ..finally i deleted these drivers since i've found a (free) russian music player that even with default Windows drivers delivers (imho) a better or equal sound quality than Ploytec ASIO.
  it uses WASAPI (and other types of outputs). and there is a real audible difference with Foobar's WASAPI
  unfortunately, this player has a number of bugs too, but being a "beta" it is supposed to have a number of them


----------



## svyr

kr0gg said:


> i can (could) easily stream 24/96 by Ploytec drivers. those are (were) 2.8.40 version
> these drivers are a little buggy with frequency change (i.e it sometimes "falls out" when you switch between 44,48,96 tracks), but it sounds pretty nice.
> also i had to uncheck the "input" box in driver settings every time music format changed in order to stop "noisy" sound. unchecking that box took too much time, so...
> 
> ...




Ploytec's now 2.8.45, you could have a try on it and see if the bugs are gone, but you'd have to use the demo version with the beeps (if you haven't bought it  )...

M, aimp3 and wasapi are nice. I've been using it since V2 and the new audio engine is very nice (ASIO and WASAPI support, feature rich,quick and pretty interface).

Hopefully Artem will keep updating it more frequently, since there are still some fairly serious bugs... But at least it also has ASIO support if your sound card natively supports it.


----------



## Eunegis

So Ploytec drivers support the Tenor chip (and the DI) natively, no software tweaking necessary, right?
  @kr0gg: What Russian player is that?
  Are there ASIO alternatives?
  I'm using the drivers in a cMP² system, so ASIO is mandatory for me.
  Does ASIO4ALL work with the DI?
  (though ASIO4ALL is only a wrapper in opposition to the Ploytec, AFAIK - don't know if a wrapper is reliably bit perfect)


----------



## kr0gg

@Eunegis: you can download it here: http://vv.uka.ru/aplayer.zip
  i use it with this wasapi: http://adionsoft.net/winampwasapi/ (just put it in the directory folder)
   
  i should warn you about a few things:
  1) it is in russian (but there aren't much options to select, so i guess it won't be too complicated)
  2) its interface is kinda "spartan". (i personally don't care - i've designed my foobar interface even more spartan 
  3) it's a beta.
  4) i don't know this guy, so can't guarantee anything about harm, viruses, etc. use it at your own risk.


----------



## svyr

kr0gg said:


> @Eunegis: you can download it here: http://vv.uka.ru/aplayer.zip
> i use it with this wasapi: http://adionsoft.net/winampwasapi/ (just put it in the directory folder)
> 
> i should warn you about a few things:
> ...




oh... lol, I meant http://aimp.ru/index.php (AIMP3) (that does have an english installer and UI language, but also supports ASIO and WASAPI output). It also supports all the major formats out of the box (alac,flac,ape,wv,etc) but the interface isn't minimalistic. Although the developer probably should improve mouse-less navigation a bit. It's been around for years now, and verified by the hosting cos to be virus free/etc. Plus it won a couple of Multimedia awards over the last few years


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

I'm not sure if this has been discussed within the thread, but has anyone tried the no-change setting without the clock in the socket?
   
  I was testing between the stock clock, a Vanguard TCXO and a Tentlabs XO for the upsampling. In the end I preferred without upsampling. Since Kingwa said the clock is not used in the no change setting, I took out the clock. Surprisingly there seems to be some difference in the sonic and I wonder if there's any influence the clock has in the socket and without. I tested all three clock in the socket in the no-change setting. There were perceptible changes in the sound with each clock having a subtle impact on the sound. In the end, I found that no clock in the socket turns out to provide the most transparent and clean output signal to the DAC. Details and ambient information are a lot more noticeable without any clock in the socket. I thought Kingwa said the clock isn't used when not upsampling but it seems to have an effect on the signal.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





rhythmic_impulse said:


> I'm not sure if this has been discussed within the thread, but has anyone tried the no-change setting without the clock in the socket?
> 
> I was testing between the stock clock, a Vanguard TCXO and a Tentlabs XO for the upsampling. In the end I preferred without upsampling. Since Kingwa said the clock is not used in the no change setting, I took out the clock. Surprisingly there seems to be some difference in the sonic and I wonder if there's any influence the clock has in the socket and without. I tested all three clock in the socket in the no-change setting. There were perceptible changes in the sound with each clock having a subtle impact on the sound. In the end, I found that no clock in the socket turns out to provide the most transparent and clean output signal to the DAC. Details and ambient information are a lot more noticeable without any clock in the socket. I thought Kingwa said the clock isn't used when not upsampling but it seems to have an effect on the signal.


 

 Oh dear. I ordered the upgraded TCXO clock during the midst of the hype and I find that I don't like it at all. Never use it.
   
  Now it worries me that the clock affects the sound even without upsampling. It has been soldered on my unit and no way I could take it out.


----------



## kr0gg

in my case - i don't know.
  at first i liked the upgraded clock a lot.
  then i've found out that in some cases no-upsampling mode gives more transparency to the sound BUT at the cost of added sibilance.
  finally i've left it on 48 setting because that is maximum that my DAC understands. at least DI does the re-sample job better than any software and i need to downsample 88 and 96 music anyway.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> in my case - i don't know.
> at first i liked the upgraded clock a lot.
> then i've found out that in some cases no-upsampling mode gives more transparency to the sound BUT at the cost of added sibilance.
> finally i've left it on 48 setting because that is maximum that my DAC understands. at least DI does the re-sample job better than any software and i need to downsample 88 and 96 music anyway.


 

 Sibilance? From where????
  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  My music is smooth and sweet with no upsampling.
   
  I do prefer the upsampling on my music playback software though. It brings the music alive and smoothen the edges without losing details and transparency.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





uelover said:


> Sibilance? From where????
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hi uelover
   
  Do you find that when you upsample it does things like bringing the vocals forward?


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





faudrei said:


> HCU do work... possibly even better than VHC (it is just that I can not recall which one I left inside as my preference).


 


  The HCU types are "unbuffered" inverters, which just invert the incoming waveforms. The HC/VHC types are "buffered" type, which would invert the incoming signals plus "square up" the output signal to make it pure square wave.
   
  I suppose if the signal prior the Hex inverter stage in the DI is "square" enough, then the HCU type can be used.


----------



## Eunegis

Quote: 





rhythmic_impulse said:


> _______
> *Set-up*: Foobar -> ASIO -> Wireworld Starlight USB cable -> Audio-Gd Digital Interface + PSU -> Black Cat Veloce BNC -> Audio-Gd FUN ver A Modded BNC Input (WM8741, DIR9001 (Upgraded Tentlabs XO), ADA4627-1BRZ opamps, ACSS, Audio-Gd Power Cable) *Headphones:* Sennheiser HD650+ DHC Nucleotide,HD25-13


 

 What ASIO driver are you using?


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> Hi uelover
> 
> Do you find that when you upsample it does things like bringing the vocals forward?


 

 The vocals got thrown backward when I upsample using the DI.


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Quote: 





eunegis said:


> What ASIO driver are you using?


 
  I'm using Teradak's driver for the TE7022 chip, which you can get here. It does provides an ASIO option. I'm not sure if it's a true ASIO implementation since it is not in exclusive mode i.e. while Foobar or Winap is playing in through their ASIO plugins, another software can still play sound and can be heard. I use this because it is the closest sonically to the Ploytec driver 2.8.45 I used before but discarded because of issues with auto-frequency selections.


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Quote: 





uelover said:


> The vocals got thrown backward when I upsample using the DI.


 

 I think, different clocks had different effects on the vocals. TCXO had a more upfront imaging, Tentlabs XO tend to move everything slightly back. Haven't tried a Tentlabs VCXO though.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





rhythmic_impulse said:


> I think, different clocks had different effects on the vocals. TCXO had a more upfront imaging, Tentlabs XO tend to move everything slightly back. Haven't tried a Tentlabs VCXO though.


 


 Hmm I am using the TXCO clock that audiogd installed for me though. Are we talking about the same one?


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

The TCXO that I'm using is a Vanguard version. The unit seems to look the same as Audio-Gd's though. I meant to say that the entire sonic presentation is more upfront, not just voices. Voices tend to be within the same acoustic space with the instruments, neither forward or back.
   
  The Tentlabs XO moves things back slightly, a little bit brighter in the highs and mids, with just a bit more organic sound to it, though it is a subtle effect.
   
  The stock clock seems to have less details and sound muddy in comparison.


----------



## upstateguy

anybody else want to weigh in on whether the vocals come forward or are pushed back with upsampling, relative to how they are with no upsampling??????


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





rhythmic_impulse said:


> The TCXO that I'm using is a Vanguard version. The unit seems to look the same as Audio-Gd's though. I meant to say that the entire sonic presentation is more upfront, not just voices. Voices tend to be within the same acoustic space with the instruments, neither forward or back.


 


  Hey rhythmic, just to confirm a few things:
  1) how long have your Vanguard TCXO been burned in?
  2) have you controlled for the listening volume?
   
  Vanguard TCXO and the one Audio-gd is selling look the same in its physique and form factor (except its engraving). Anyone can confirmed that they are the same chip?
   
  With the TCXO clock and without upsampling, I find the vocals to be more upfront and I could listen comfortably at low listening level to what the singers are singing.
  With the TCXO clock and with upsampling, I find the vocals to fall back to the other instruments: I will need to play on a higher volume now as before in order to hear the vocals clearly. This in return makes me listen to other instruments more loudly as well.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





uelover said:


> Hey rhythmic, just to confirm a few things:
> 1) how long have your Vanguard TCXO been burned in?
> 2) have you controlled for the listening volume?
> 
> ...


 

 It sounds like the depth of the sound stage increases when you upsample.  Does it also increase the side to side width?
   
  Question:  when you listen with the TCXO clock and no upsampling, what is the TCXO clock doing?


----------



## uelover

Hmm but I feel that the sound has become congested instead. I don't know why. There was a time when I tried very hard to like the upsampled sound I wanted to maximize the upgraded clock since I have paid USD23 for it and everyone else reported that the SQ became better. I gave up after 2 months of trying and stick to non-upsampled sound.
   
  Kingwa was the one who said that the clock will not be used but never explained how the circuit works actually. Rhythmic was the first to report back that even with no upsampling, the type of clock used for upsampling impacts the sound so that got me curious. It is something I cannot try on my side.
   
  Hopefully more people will speak of their experience thus far here.


----------



## Mambosenior

I have the upgraded clock and have been very pleased with the up-sampled sound. Never have experienced vocals “being pushed back” with up-sampling.
   
  After receiving the DI and NFB-3, I left then on for a week running computer FLAC files. I was influenced by something I read on the Audio-gd site where it was mentioned that the new clock required extended break-in.
   
  I've been using Fidelia to play back FLAC files. It's an infinitely better player than the ones I previously used (ITunes, Play, Songbird). Interacts very well with the DI and plays back at the actual resolution of the file.


----------



## uelover

Hmm if we set upsampling mode on DI, you will never get the DAC to play at the actual resolution of the song.
   
  I am using Audirvana on my Mac as of now and I like how non-upsampling mode allows me to pass the true resolution to the DAC (except for 192khz).
   
  Okies nice to hear that upsampling on DI sounds great when used with NFB-3.


----------



## ohhgourami

I just got my DI with TXCO and PSU!  I'm trying to compare the difference between using that and using the USB mode off my NFB-10ES.  I HEAR NO DIFFERENCE!
   
  Initially I thought the bass got a bit richer going through the DI, but I'm not sure...
   
  What improvements should I expect?  Probably need some burn in right?


----------



## uelover

@ohhgourami: Your 10ES has got USB input??
   
  Hmm try letting it run in and see how things go. You will slowly get familiar to the changes it makes to your sound.


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote: 





uelover said:


> @ohhgourami: Your 10ES has got USB input??
> 
> Hmm try letting it run in and see how things go. You will slowly get familiar to the changes it makes to your sound.


 

 Yup I got the USB version of the 10ES.  It an older model using the ROC chasis, but internally it is the same except for the USB input.
   
  I gave the DI a few more minutes and I'm starting to tell the difference.  The details get significantly better.  Stuff just pops out at your more!  Kinda like the difference between a 2D and a 3D movie.  Seems like I can finally clearly hear the difference between 16 and 24 bit now.
   
  Will definitely give it some more burn in...then...see if the PSU makes a difference...


----------



## kr0gg

in my case i guess i have the opposite effect when upsampling to 48
  upsampling makes music more relaxed, so it reduces listening fatique.
   
  i'm currently interested in rolling that HEX invertors
  but can't find a place whith reasonable shipping prices.
  paying $10-15 for a piece shipped is way too much for rolling.


----------



## upstateguy

It's curious that we don't have a consensus on the effects of upsampling.


----------



## ulyses

Quote: 





rhythmic_impulse said:


> I'm not sure if this has been discussed within the thread, but has anyone tried the no-change setting without the clock in the socket?
> 
> I was testing between the stock clock, a Vanguard TCXO and a Tentlabs XO for the upsampling. In the end I preferred without upsampling. Since Kingwa said the clock is not used in the no change setting, I took out the clock. Surprisingly there seems to be some difference in the sonic and I wonder if there's any influence the clock has in the socket and without. I tested all three clock in the socket in the no-change setting. There were perceptible changes in the sound with each clock having a subtle impact on the sound. In the end, I found that no clock in the socket turns out to provide the most transparent and clean output signal to the DAC. Details and ambient information are a lot more noticeable without any clock in the socket. I thought Kingwa said the clock isn't used when not upsampling but it seems to have an effect on the signal.


 

 Same result here. I already using DI without upsampling but when I took out clock sound get more transparent and hard passages (eg many instruments playing different partitions at same time) get more clear. I am using it with nfb10es btw.


----------



## Mambosenior

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> It's curious that we don't have a consensus on the effects of upsampling.


 
  Indeed, very curious. I tried non-upsampling mode this afternoon and liked it, just not as much in Classical scores. I feel that the instrumental separation and soundstage in complex symphonic music is better with up-sampling. On vocals (Patricia Barber, k.d. lang) with small instrumental groups, the sound is extremely truthful and non-fatiguing. I frankly can't tell the difference between “up and non-up” on Rock band tracks like, for instance, Angra's various albums or Pink Floyd's DSOTM and Division Bell. The Dead Can Dance discography, however, sounds sensational with up-sampling. Well, this last group has always been extremely well recorded so maybe it really doesn't matter what setting on the DI you might choose.


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Quote: 





uelover said:


> Hey rhythmic, just to confirm a few things:
> 1) how long have your Vanguard TCXO been burned in?
> 2) have you controlled for the listening volume?
> 
> ...


 

 uelover,
   
  The TCXO and the Tentlabs were each burnt-in over a 3 weeks period each. This was something I had been testing for the past 2 months before posting the results here. Yes, the volume on my DACs remain the same. I sent an email to Kingwa asking about this and whether the circuits are affected by the insertion of the clock but he gave me a very generic reply saying that clock will only be used when in upsampling mode.


----------



## kr0gg

i'm going to receive the Audio-gd PSU for DI next week and i'll also definitely buy an USB isolator dongle because i really hear how my PC pollutes the sound.
  a guy named "Leeperry" had massive experiments with those, so, following his impressions, i guess i'll buy this one: http://www.olimex.com/dev/usb-iso.html


----------



## yossi126

Is it the same as those "Adum4610 something" usb isolator?
  Be kind to share your impressions upon arrival.


----------



## kr0gg

it's one of them. yes. there i a variety of adum4160 realizations and as i've read - the Olimex one is the most interesting of those.


----------



## lordearl

Simple question (can't seem to find the answer on the AUDIO-GD site) - if we are inputting a 16/44.1 signal to the DI, and using the 96kHz upsampling, is it also converting the 16 bits to 24 bits?
   
  Reason I ask is that I am using a non-oversampling AD1865, so I am trying to work out what signal it can accept.  I think the 96kHz is okay, but I am not sure about 24 bits as it is an 18 bit DAC chip.


----------



## kr0gg

ad1865 should understand 24bits.
  i have a DAC on ad1862 and it does.


----------



## somestranger26

Just installed a 74VHC04N in my DI. Huge upgrade (and I haven't even burnt it in yet) for such a small investment, mainly in terms of bringing out detail. My music sounds almost like it's in slow motion the way that the details are being fully conveyed now. Can't wait to get a few more hours on it.


----------



## uelover

Nice to hear that.
   
  I have difficulty sourcing for one on my side. Mouser charges USD30 for shipping and a few cents for 74VHC04N which is a little too ridiculous.
   
  eBay doesn't sell the VHC variant but sells the HC variant.
   
   
  What are the difference?


----------



## kr0gg

what do you mean by "slow motion"?


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> what do you mean by "slow motion"?


 


  Live rock band sounds like acoustic version? Lol.


----------



## somestranger26

uelover said:


> Nice to hear that.
> 
> I have difficulty sourcing for one on my side. Mouser charges USD30 for shipping and a few cents for 74VHC04N which is a little too ridiculous.
> 
> ...




The HC is the same as what's in there by default. VHC is what borrego recommended. I have 3 of these VHC left and I could ship you one if you paid me $2+airmail. Shoot me a PM if you're interested.



kr0gg said:


> what do you mean by "slow motion"?




The music almost seems slowed down because of the amount of detail being resolved. Instead of notes playing into eachother they're more separated and discretely positioned than before. Soundstage also seems improved.


----------



## kr0gg

reporting:
  i've bought an Audio-gd PSU for DI from a nice guy here if FS forum, received it an hour ago.
  that's a nice upgrade, i should say.
  imho, not worth $120 (as it would cost me to be shipped from Kingwa), but for the $72 shipped that i've payed, it is pretty good.
  feeding DI with a usual D-link 7.5v/1A PSU (taken from my internet-router) sounded nicer than usb-powered. feeding it from audio-gd's PSU gives twice better improvement comparing to a that PSU.


----------



## punk_guy182

So what sounds best in the DI? The tent labs or the TCXO?


----------



## somestranger26

Neither 

Edit: Here's what Kingwa had to say when I emailed him about the hex inverters.


> This chip only made the sound flavor different, can't made the specs upgrade.
> The DI was consider slight rich sound just for less digital sound, we spend a lot time to try and listen different 74XX04 just choice current one.
> For us, any 74XX04 price is quite near, the cost different only USD0.02.
> Kingwa


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Neither
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That's exactly the point I tried to make: The hex inverter chip is probably the cheapest way to alter sound nature, you can buy 10 different types, try all days and find the one you like the best, for less than a Mcdonald's Happy Meal 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  There is indeed a spec upgrade for the DI though. The TI 74AHC04 which I like (it happens to be the cheapest chip),  would be more thermo stable (the DI can get quite warm inside) and have a more "square" output which some SPDIF receiver chips would see as having less jitter. Just check the Tpd values of different chip.


----------



## lordearl

Is anyone able to clarify how the Altera chip in the DI works - it we select, say, 96khz upsampling on a 16/44.1 file - does this transform it into 16/96 or 24/96?  i.e. is the bit rate changing?


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> So what sounds best in the DI? The tent labs or the TCXO?


 

  
  After extensive listening, I prefer the Tentlabs clock when upsampling in my system. It sounded a bit more organic and better separation and soundstage. There's a slight move back in the presentation and voices tend to be a bit more separated from the instruments. Not to say that the TCXO is not as good, just a bit more upfront with the presentation. I would say the TCXO doesn't change the voicing, just neutral whereas the Tentlabs is a bit more richer. YMMV though.
   
  I'm getting the hex inverter from somestranger26 so it will be interesting to try out the combinations.


----------



## uelover

somestranger26 did you received my pm???


----------



## punit

I recently purchased DI (with TCXO upgrade) & NFB-7. I use Mac Mini with OSX 10.6.7 , 2.53 GHZ Intel Core 2 Duo processor , 4 GB RAM. I am experiencing random audio drop outs.I use Pure Music but have also tried it using only itunes. Play only wave files, I do not upsample. Has anyone experienced drop outs using DI on Mac 10.6 ? Any suggestions please to get rid of the drop outs ?

 Another question :






on the Audio GD website on the DI page there is a picture of how to turn upsampling on by pushing certain jumpers. I tried pushing the jumpers in as shown but they do not  go in ? any suggestions ?
   
  http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USBface/DSP3.JPG

 Thanks
  Punit


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





punit said:


> they do not  go in ?


 


  try to turn the jumpers upside-down and pushing them by their opposite side


----------



## somestranger26

lordearl said:


> Is anyone able to clarify how the Altera chip in the DI works - it we select, say, 96khz upsampling on a 16/44.1 file - does this transform it into 16/96 or 24/96?  i.e. is the bit rate changing?




I am not sure exactly how it works, but it wouldn't matter either way if it goes to 16 or 24-bit. All the chip would do to "upconvert" to 24-bit is pad 00000000 at the beginning of every word in the stream. This does nothing to change the sound. I actually have foobar set to output 24-bit all the time (Kingwa told me that's how he sets his).



punit said:


> I recently purchased DI (with TCXO upgrade) & NFB-7. I use Mac Mini with OSX 10.6.7 , 2.53 GHZ Intel Core 2 Duo processor , 4 GB RAM. I am experiencing random audio drop outs.I use Pure Music but have also tried it using only itunes. Play only wave files, I do not upsample. Has anyone experienced drop outs using DI on Mac 10.6 ? Any suggestions please to get rid of the drop outs ?
> 
> Another question :
> 
> ...




Try setting your "Buffer size/length" in your music player to between 100 and 500ms.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





punit said:


> I recently purchased DI (with TCXO upgrade) & NFB-7. I use Mac Mini with OSX 10.6.7 , 2.53 GHZ Intel Core 2 Duo processor , 4 GB RAM. I am experiencing random audio drop outs.I use Pure Music but have also tried it using only itunes. Play only wave files, I do not upsample. Has anyone experienced drop outs using DI on Mac 10.6 ? Any suggestions please to get rid of the drop outs ?
> 
> Another question :
> 
> ...


 

 add the oversampling jumper - fixed the problem for me.  Still getting decent (shielded) cables and a power supply can't hurt (except the wallet) - but I've heard that the power supply doesn't necessarily help unless your usb power is noisy.


----------



## punit

Quote: 





drez said:


> add the oversampling jumper - fixed the problem for me.  Apparently this changes to asynchronous mode.


 

 How do you add the oversampling jumper ?
   
  Thanks


----------



## somestranger26

punit said:


> How do you add the oversampling jumper ?
> 
> Thanks




 Unscrew the top and put one of the jumpers on the "NO-C" pins inside.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





drez said:


> add the oversampling jumper - fixed the problem for me.  Apparently this changes to asynchronous mode.  Still getting decent (shielded) cables and a power supply can't hurt (except the wallet) - but I've heard that the power supply doesn't necessarily help unless *your usb power is noisy.*


 

 USB power from any source (with the battery powered laptop being the cleanest) is nowhere near as noise free as a purpose built well thought out linear power supply can be. The switch mode supplies used in computers and in the laptop AC chargers inject a boat load of noise into the AC mains lines and into the other cabling used with computers.
   
  Of course the difference between the USB supplied power vs the linear supply can be anywhere from barely noticeable to huge...it all depends on what your gear setup is like. MAC is no better than PC in this regard although MAC book Pro seems to be a perennial fav among audio guys (for semi portable source work). A-gd gear seems to be sensitive to noise which may account for the drop outs....as others have suggested try and drop your buffer down to 100 ms and see if it's OK with that (rather than upsampling...unless of course you like upsampled sound more than original file rate).
   
  Peete.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





drez said:


> add the oversampling jumper - fixed the problem for me.  Still getting decent (shielded) cables and a power supply can't hurt (except the wallet) - but I've heard that the power supply doesn't necessarily help unless your usb power is noisy.


 


  Correction here!  DI USB does NOT operate in asynchronous.  
   
  But anyway the problem could also be latency spikes which I seem to have on my system from a faulty driver somewhere.  Caused me dropouts with my essence ST also when using it as a source, but not as a transport...


----------



## svyr

drez said:


> Correction here!  DI USB does NOT operate in asynchronous.
> 
> But anyway the problem could also be latency spikes which I seem to have on my system from a faulty driver somewhere.  Caused me dropouts with my essence ST also when using it as a source, but not as a transport...




http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon if you have win 7 or vista


----------



## drez

hmm seems dropouts don't coincide with latency spikes.  Might just be dirty power or RFI from other USB?


----------



## kr0gg

guys, what exactly do you call "dropouts" in DI's case?


----------



## svyr

drez said:


> hmm seems dropouts don't coincide with latency spikes.  Might just be dirty power or RFI from other USB?






kr0gg said:


> guys, what exactly do you call "dropouts" in DI's case?




presumably crackling of some sort or dropped samples (actual silence bits)?


----------



## kr0gg

if talking about cracking it is usually fixed by connecting DI to a USB-controller which is not occupied by any other device (that can be checked in the Devices menu of My computer). also, there are cases when setting low playback latency (50-100 ms) helps.
   
  talking about dirty PC power - i had this issue (which was pretty unexpected because i thought that my Chieftec 750w PSU is pretty good). switching to a separate power supply made those noises quieter, switching to Audio-gd's PSU for DI made them even more quiet. but anyway when not playing music and turning volume on my amp to the max i can hear noises coming from USB.
  never had any dropout issues due to dirty power. i guess it isn't the reason for those.


----------



## somestranger26

kr0gg said:


> guys, what exactly do you call "dropouts" in DI's case?




Mine usually manifest themselves as popping if doing something else CPU/GPU-intensive like Bitcoin mining (DI is the only thing connected to my USB2 controller). More commonly, I get silence for a short amount of time that usually corresponds to the buffer setting.


----------



## yossi126

Has anyone experienced ''clicks'' from the psu affected by room electricity, like air conditioning?

Is there something to worry about?


----------



## FauDrei

yossi126 said:


> Has anyone experienced ''clicks'' from the psu affected by room electricity, like air conditioning?
> 
> Is there something to worry about?


 

  Yes we have.
   
  Yes you have: the PSU of your transport/source is not that good.
   
  With my gear: listen to DacMagic, turn on the old CRT TV in the room - music drops out (clicks) for a split second. Do the same while listening to RE-1 - nothing happens, music just continue to play unaffected.
   
  For non PSU sag related dropouts with Win PC you might try Fidelizer.


----------



## wushuliu

So what does Kingwa mean exactly when he says 'Class A' power supply for the DI?


----------



## kr0gg

it means that it operates in class A - heats a lot, eats more than produces, but gives out really stable voltage, etc.


----------



## wushuliu

Hm, was hoping for a little more detail. I'm aware of how Class A generally works in amplifiers, but not sure how it's being used in the DI power supply.


----------



## K3cT

I'm a bit worried after reading through the last couple of pages. How come people report such significant differences when rolling components such as the hex inverter and such? Honestly it's a bit absurd for me.


----------



## lordearl

Quote: 





k3ct said:


> I'm a bit worried after reading through the last couple of pages. How come people report such significant differences when rolling components such as the hex inverter and such? Honestly it's a bit absurd for me.


 


  Totally agree.
  This DI is so well implemented that even upgrading the power supply is barely evident on very resolving systems/headphones.
   
  Obviously upsampling is one way of testing sonic differences.
   
  I have been using an AD1865 dac with the original mode of the DI, and then with the upsampling turned on - this is definitely a noticeable difference.  The upsampling is highly preferable.  I suppose to some (and me, a few days ago!) it seems absurd to put a upsampled audio streams into a non-oversampling DAC, but at 96khz, the AD1865 seems to have a much better treble!


----------



## kr0gg

well...i myself don't know how people report significant differences when talking about DACs in under $500 range


----------



## kr0gg

dunno about upsampling
  at first i liked it a lot, but since getting the PSU i feel that i no longer have the previously experienced harshness in sound, so i switched to non-upsampled mode. it sounds more natural to me now


----------



## svyr

kr0gg said:


> well...i myself don't know how people report significant differences when talking about DACs in under $500 range




placebo/bias + not a direct comparison  . Price is not necessarily a valid indicator of quality either (and feeds back into the other two  ).


----------



## somestranger26

kr0gg said:


> dunno about upsampling
> at first i liked it a lot, but since getting the PSU i feel that i no longer have the previously experienced *harshness in sound,* so i switched to non-upsampled mode. it sounds more natural to me now



This is one thing about the 74VHC04N that might not be entirely pleasing: it reveals flaws in poor/harsh recordings more easily. I still think it's a substantial upgrade, though.



k3ct said:


> I'm a bit worried after reading through the last couple of pages. How come people report such significant differences when* rolling components such as the hex inverter *and such? Honestly it's a bit absurd for me.



The difference is obvious -- I have no idea why it makes such a big difference, but it costs so little that everyone should try it.


----------



## wushuliu

Quote: 





rhythmic_impulse said:


> I'm not sure if this has been discussed within the thread, but has anyone tried the no-change setting without the clock in the socket?
> 
> I was testing between the stock clock, a Vanguard TCXO and a Tentlabs XO for the upsampling. In the end I preferred without upsampling. Since Kingwa said the clock is not used in the no change setting, I took out the clock. Surprisingly there seems to be some difference in the sonic and I wonder if there's any influence the clock has in the socket and without. I tested all three clock in the socket in the no-change setting. There were perceptible changes in the sound with each clock having a subtle impact on the sound. In the end, I found that no clock in the socket turns out to provide the most transparent and clean output signal to the DAC. Details and ambient information are a lot more noticeable without any clock in the socket. I thought Kingwa said the clock isn't used when not upsampling but it seems to have an effect on the signal.


 

 Thanks for the tip. I removed mine because I don't like upsampling. Nice improvement, even more neutral-sounding.


----------



## lordearl

Wushuliu - judging from the DAC threads over at audiocircle, you and I have the same AD1865 dac - did you try the DI with upsampling + the AD1865?  I think after 72 hours of burn in it sounds far better than non-upsampled AD1865, what did you think?


----------



## wushuliu

Quote: 





lordearl said:


> Wushuliu - judging from the DAC threads over at audiocircle, you and I have the same AD1865 dac - did you try the DI with upsampling + the AD1865?  I think after 72 hours of burn in it sounds far better than non-upsampled AD1865, what did you think?


 


  No, the DI is recent and I moved on from the AD1865 a while ago. Given the changes in my gear since then it would be interesting to compare. Dunno though, every encounter I have had with upsampling where I could A/B with and without I always end up preferring without.


----------



## zibra

I just removed clock for testing and dont know how to put it back. in which pins from left and which direction? I see there is one different corner of clock. should it be upper right. holes important or not?
  another question - Im testing new audioplayer, jplay. when I want to play 24/96 file through it I have info that audio device doesnt support such file. why? My dac and DI should support it. I have DI set as default and without clock right now.
   
  I managed to put clock in but still cant play high res file..


----------



## hawkhead

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USBface/Clock.htm


----------



## Ultrainferno

It's sure taking long to read this 139 page thread, I'm only at page 29


----------



## lag0a

Does anyone know if it is better to use a 10x more watts switching power supply than you need or just enough watts with a linear regulated power supply for a PC transport for audio purposes?
   
  Why does using a about 10x more watts switching power supply seem to make the soundstage bigger compared to another switching power supply I used with just enough watts?
  Please PM me about it.


----------



## drez

I tracked down the hardware latency issue causing dropouts - It was the usual suspect aka wireless card.  
   
  Great, so now I can either listen to music without upsampling, or use the internet.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I think I have a solution though - set up a wireless bridge and connect to it with t5, that or just run a t5 cable if that's easier.


----------



## zibra

can you tell me which driver is good for DI? I just tested some driver:
   
  http://www.usb-audio.com/
   
  but it doesnt work and I just cant go back to previous driver. Its impossible to uninstall it even with drivers cleaner...


----------



## somestranger26

zibra said:


> can you tell me which driver is good for DI? I just tested some driver:
> 
> http://www.usb-audio.com/
> 
> but it doesnt work and I just cant go back to previous driver. Its impossible to uninstall it even with drivers cleaner...




The default one. I tried that driver (it does work, BTW) and all it did was cause me headaches trying to uninstall it. You need to do this: "Go to Device Manager, locate the software in the "Universal Serial Bus" section (very important to locate it here!), uninstall the driver and check the "delete driver software" option." The default driver then successfully installed the next time I reconnected the DI.


----------



## zibra

sure I read it and did it. Unfortunately its still here. I tried everything and of course unplugged DI. everytime I reconnect it theres some audiotrack dr dac usb driver loading. argh.
  well looks like no driver now but I cant make DI to work. It says theres no drivers for TE7022..


----------



## leeperry

zibra said:


> can you tell me which driver is good for DI?


 

 http://cid-1eb7027489224a7d.office.live.com/browse.aspx/Teralink-X2%20ASIO%20driver%20%5E50.9%20beta%5E6?sa=680732473
   
  They're released by the Tenor chip manufacturer, that most likely asks their OEM customers for a fee to release them....thing is, those free drivers will work w/ any TE7022L device


----------



## hawkhead

I had a lot of trouble with the ploytec drivers - BSOD's no sound etc after uninstalling them
   
  Basically you need to search for the pgusbwdm.sys file and remove all the instances you can then install the std Microsoft driver


----------



## kr0gg

in win7 it's really easy to uninstall Ploytec drivers.
  in winXP i had to reinstall the system.
   
  but..after using them, removing them, forgeting about them i finally installed them again. at this moment i feel that they deliver the best sound.
  yes, they see DI as audiotrak's Dr.dac2.
   
  Teralink's ASIO sux, imo
  properly configured, it sounded a little better than DS, worse than WASAPI and, of course, worse then Ploytec


----------



## yossi126

Had that situation with DI and ploytec. Formatted my computer because of it.
  Let it be a warning for those who might try this this driver.


----------



## Eunegis

I can't find the price of the Ploytec driver anywhere.
  What will it cost if I decide to get a licence?
  Do they accept PayPal? Has anybody tried it yet?


----------



## svyr

eunegis said:


> I can't find the price of the Ploytec driver anywhere.
> What will it cost if I decide to get a licence?
> Do they accept PayPal? Has anybody tried it yet?




email them...otherwise card purchase: https://www.usb-audio.com/get-the-driver.asp


----------



## Eunegis

Great! Thanks


----------



## SilverCans

I use Win7 WASPI driver, is that as good as it gets?
   
  Also, in Foobar it asks how many bits to set the output too, 16 or 24bits, which do you choose? I ask because if a song is native 16bit, what happens when the setting is 24bit (and dithering is off)?


----------



## uelover

hey guys,
   
  anyone knows what is the spec of the DC cable between the PSU and DI? thinking of changing one.


----------



## drez

one of these might also help
   
  I kid 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  If you're concerned about RFI a shorter cord or moving the whole unit further from your pc might help?


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





drez said:


> one of these might also help
> 
> I kid


 

 Hahah drez that shall be my birthday present from you


----------



## drez

I might make one with some mysterious extruded aluminium and laser cut perspex 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  But meh a shorter cord with shielding might be worth a shot in the [black] dark.


----------



## zibra

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> http://cid-1eb7027489224a7d.office.live.com/browse.aspx/Teralink-X2%20ASIO%20driver%20%5E50.9%20beta%5E6?sa=680732473
> 
> They're released by the Tenor chip manufacturer, that most likely asks their OEM customers for a fee to release them....thing is, those free drivers will work w/ any TE7022L device


 
  well I downloaded it earlier but it doesnt work after installation. I still dont have sound and my PC cant find any driver for DI...
   
  An error occured while querying "TeraLink-X2 USB Audio ASIO" driver. Please stop ASIO playback and shut down any other software using ASIO.
 Additional info: Initializing ASIO driver failed


----------



## Eunegis

Quote: 





silvercans said:


> I use Win7 WASPI driver, is that as good as it gets?
> 
> Also, in Foobar it asks how many bits to set the output too, 16 or 24bits, which do you choose? I ask because if a song is native 16bit, what happens when the setting is 24bit (and dithering is off)?


 

 WASAPI doesn't work for me under Vista, only KS.
  But I believe that a good ASIO driver should be the best sound option and the most reliable one as well concerning bit transparency.
  Drivers do make a difference.
   
  Has enyone encountered the problem that the DI is not recognized at all under XP (while it is recognized on the same computer under Vista)???


----------



## somestranger26

Today I received a 2m Wireworld Ultraviolet USB cable to use with the digital interface, and I find it to be a nice addition to my system. It adds clarity and definition to the bass, and makes the treble smoother/less harsh (some harshness was introduced with the hex inverter upgrade). Didn't think a USB cable would matter, but it makes a difference about on par with the *PSU*.



silvercans said:


> I use Win7 WASPI driver, is that as good as it gets?
> 
> Also, in Foobar it asks how many bits to set the output too, 16 or 24bits, which do you choose? I ask because if a song is native 16bit, what happens when the setting is 24bit (and dithering is off)?




I'd stick with the stock driver, it's pretty good. When foobar takes 16-bits and outputs 24-bits it's just padding zeros to the beginning (assuming little endian words) that will be ignored by the DAC. 
So if you had: 1111 0000 1010 0101 and output it at 24 bits it'd be output as 
.....0000 0000 1111 0000 1010 0101. Those zeroes at the beginning do not alter the data in any way, just pads it to a 24 bit signal. Dithering happens when you downsample to 16 bit from 24 or higher.



yossi126 said:


> Had that situation with DI and ploytec. Formatted my computer because of it.
> Let it be a warning for those who might try this this driver.




Yeah seriously I wouldn't even bother with the ploytec crap. Why would anyone pay 44 euro for a driver that you can't even uninstall without ripping your hair out?

Edit: Whoops, typo about the usb cable being better than the digital interface. hah.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Today I received a 2m Wireworld Ultraviolet USB cable to use with the digital interface, and I find it to be a nice addition to my system. It adds clarity and definition to the bass, and makes the treble smoother/less harsh (some harshness was introduced with the hex inverter upgrade). Didn't think a USB cable would matter, but it makes a difference about on par with the DI.


 


  Good that you went out to try one =) I love my WW Starlight too and like the nice upgrade it brings to the system.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Just installed a 74VHC04N in my DI. Huge upgrade (and I haven't even burnt it in yet) for such a small investment, mainly in terms of bringing out detail. My music sounds almost like it's in slow motion the way that the details are being fully conveyed now. Can't wait to get a few more hours on it.


 


  Just received the hex inverter you sent me. However, I couldn't get it to work!
   
  I followed the direction of my original inverter and just replaced it. No signal coming out from my DI to DAC. After switching back to the stock's inverter, everything works again.
   
  =(


----------



## somestranger26

You're putting the chip in so that the half circle is on the same side as stock, right? Rhythmic_impulse got his too and said it works great so I don't think the chip is bad.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> You're putting the chip in so that the half circle is on the same side as stock, right? Rhythmic_impulse got his too and said it works great so I don't think the chip is bad.


 


  Hey yup that's what I did.
   
  I have plucked it out and then installed it back three times. Doesn't work. Hmmm. Maybe I have just gotten a lemon chip.


----------



## somestranger26

Do you have a different DAC or anything to test with? Maybe since it's the "spdif driver" it affects the output signal strength or something and your DAC isn't playing nice.


----------



## wushuliu

I bought one of the two mentioned inverters to replace the stock DI and although it does bring out some nice detail it does indeed make the upper frequencies metallic and overemphasized and the DI lost some of it's natural presentation. It would be hard for me to listen to music for long periods. For those who lean towards 'clarity' it would be a good choice, for those who prefer a more relaxed, natural presentation not so much.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





uelover said:


> Hey yup that's what I did.
> 
> I have plucked it out and then installed it back three times. Doesn't work. Hmmm. Maybe I have just gotten a lemon chip.


 
   
  It could be a bum chip....it's also possible a static charge (by accident) might have cooked it...at any rate at least it's a cheap part and your DI still works (with the stock driver) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Peete.


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





wushuliu said:


> I bought one of the two mentioned inverters to replace the stock DI and although it does bring out some nice detail it does indeed make the upper frequencies metallic and overemphasized and the DI lost some of it's natural presentation. It would be hard for me to listen to music for long periods. For those who lean towards 'clarity' it would be a good choice, for those who prefer a more relaxed, natural presentation not so much.


 

 You may want to keep the new chip in longer to let it "burn-in" a bit. My replacement TI 74AHC04 made the DI sounded very harsh like you mentioned at the beginning, it "settled down" after 10 hours or so. I found the improvements brought by the TI chip is at the bass frequency region, with a lot more textures and dimensions.
   
  For your information: Depending on the operation temperature and voltage, the DI's stock 74HC4 chip would have 15-25ns signal propagation delay going from low (0)to high (1), the 74VHC variant chips give 2.5ns to 8ns delay. The highly praised Audiophileo 1 USB-SPDIF converter default delay is at 700ps (0.7ns) and allow the user to tune for longer delay. The Audiophileo 2 fixes it at 700ps.
   
  Usually the shorter the delay, the better it will sound. But other value "could" sound better depending on coaxle cable length the amount of signal reflection.


----------



## kr0gg

Guys, please help me.
   
  This morning i've finally understood that when feeding my DAC from DI, it creates channel imbalanace, making left channel louder.
  At first, i thought that it is my dac or amp problem, but when i switched to optical input everything was fine.
   
  I've tried using DI with upsampling, without upsampling, and also even without the TCXO. the problem persists - instead of singing in the center (as they are supposed to in most songs) singers stay three steps left
   
  Did anyone meet such a problem?


----------



## somestranger26

kr0gg said:


> Guys, please help me.
> 
> This morning i've finally understood that when feeding my DAC from DI, it creates channel imbalanace, making left channel louder.
> At first, i thought that it is my dac or amp problem, but when i switched to optical input everything was fine.
> ...




Check the balance setting in the sound settings. I've had the DI for whatever reason set the right channel to 0%.


----------



## kr0gg

i've already checked it
  both right and left stay on 100


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Do you have a different DAC or anything to test with? Maybe since it's the "spdif driver" it affects the output signal strength or something and your DAC isn't playing nice.


 
   
  Quote: 





pricklely peete said:


> It could be a bum chip....it's also possible a static charge (by accident) might have cooked it...at any rate at least it's a cheap part and your DI still works (with the stock driver)


 

 Don't think it has anything to do with my DAC.
   
  I am glad that my DI and stock inverter didn't died after a failed attempt to roll the inverter. Phew.
   
  There goes my USD5 =(
   
   
  Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> i've already checked it
> both right and left stay on 100


 

 Maybe you can email audio-gd with the problem?
   
  You may adjust the left and right channel balance manually in the meanwhile =)


----------



## borrego

Earlier this evening I tried the DI with J. River Media Center 16, to try the WASAPI Event Style output option.
   
  Result: The DI does work fine with WASAPI Event Style and "pull" audio stream from Windows.


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Quote: 





uelover said:


> Hey yup that's what I did.
> 
> I have plucked it out and then installed it back three times. Doesn't work. Hmmm. Maybe I have just gotten a lemon chip.


 

 uelover,
   
  could it be that while inserting the chip, some of the pins didn't go into the slot? I had the same issue until I check and sure enough, the pins didn't go into the sockets. The pins themselves are so thin that sometimes they may get bend out of place.


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> Guys, please help me.
> 
> This morning i've finally understood that when feeding my DAC from DI, it creates channel imbalanace, making left channel louder.
> At first, i thought that it is my dac or amp problem, but when i switched to optical input everything was fine.
> ...


 

 Try switching off the DI and unplugged everything, USB cable and Coaxial cable. It happened to me too after switching to the new hex inverter. When power back on again, it became centered again. Weird but maybe sometimes when left powered up too long, the channel imbalances happens. Not always, but once in a while.
   
  About the new hex inverter, it did sound very harsh at first and metallic, but after a week, it sound much better. Compared to the stock inverter, the 74VHC variant had a more upfront presentation. Details are very present and one thing I noticed is how much more defined is the instrumental timbres. On the other hand, compared to the stock, it sounds to me slightly dryish. But that could be because I am so used to the sonic presentation of the stock.
   
  Right now, the DI with the new inverter and without any clock in the socket sounded quite natural. It seems that putting a clock in the slot affects the signal and had a bit more glare.


----------



## wushuliu

Ah, okay. I've been experiencing slight channel imbalance as well but didn't suspect the DI. I did notice that when I unlugged the USB and reinserted the balance corrected so I thought it was the usb cable not seated properly maybe. Now that I think about it the culprit must be the DI. I guess having it always on is not the best idea...


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





rhythmic_impulse said:


> could it be that while inserting the chip, some of the pins didn't go into the slot? I had the same issue until I check and sure enough, the pins didn't go into the sockets. The pins themselves are so thin that sometimes they may get bend out of place.


 

 Hmm I have confirmed it twice that all pins had went in. In any case, I will try again =)


----------



## uelover

I used the ass of my screwdriver and shoved the hex inverter all the way down. And.. it works!
   
  I am a little unfamiliar with the resulting sound due to the rolling of the hex inverter now. Not sure how to describe it. Will let it run in for a little while to get myself familiar with it =)


----------



## Baird GoW

LOL USER ERROR DETECTED AND CONFIRMED*!!! *jk


----------



## kr0gg

UPDATE about channel inbalance:
  i've removed the usb cable (with ferrites) that i've used previously and swapped to default chinese cable that came with the DI.
  the inbalance went away (to check it - i downmix channels to mono and then compare my sound from optical input with sound from DI)
   
  what i think:
  it might be bad contact, might be ferrites, might be the cable itself.
  anyway i've ordered a WW ultraviolet a few weeks ago, so it shouldn't be long when it gets here.


----------



## kr0gg

forgot to mention - i wrote to Edwin about this problem. this is the answer i've received from Kingwa :
  Dear Igor,
  The USB decive had imbalanced, maybe cause by follow
  1, The windows problems. ------------Try with other PC is the best way.
  2, the USB cables problems.-----------Replace the USB cable is best way.
  3, the deceive problems.--------------------Shipping back for check.

 Kingwa


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> 3, *the deceive problems*.--------------------Shipping back for check.
> 
> Kingwa


 




  

   With such a problem, you should ask for a refund XD jk.
   
  Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Just installed a 74VHC04N in my DI. Huge upgrade (and I haven't even burnt it in yet) for such a small investment, mainly in terms of bringing out detail.* My music sounds almost like it's in slow motion* the way that the details are being fully conveyed now. Can't wait to get a few more hours on it.


 

 It is really slow atm.


----------



## uelover

duplicate.


----------



## kr0gg

UPDATE #2:
  i've just received an USB isolator, so i've unplugged the cable again - to try the new toy.
   
  alas, when plugged back (the "good cable"), the inbalance returned.
  that leaves connection problem or device problem in the list of possible reasons


----------



## FauDrei

This sounds similar to DSP-1 buffer corruption in Reference line DACs. It happened from time to time, usually after sample rate switching, that "all the soundstage moved left". Solution? Turn of DAC. Wait few seconds. Turn on DAC.
   
  Now, DI uses DSP-3 which has is not the same as DSP-1, but given it's similar HW base it is worth trying the following: when channel imbalance occurs, stop music on your computer, detach the power from DI (USB cable if you do not use external PSU; power off DI external PSU if you are using that), wait 10 seconds, plug power back to DI, play music, hear what happens.


----------



## kr0gg

i've tried plugging in and out 3 different cables for half an hour, but the problem stayed.
   
  also, guys, please share your experience about different topic:
  my OS is Windows7. when i plug my DI out of the computer and plug it back, usually in the Windows device manager menu a yellow exclamation sign appears near "te7022 bla-bla device". in properties it says that "The device cannot start". (its blue light works, but music cannot be played - music players simply don't see the DI)
  only after 10-15 plug-ins/plug-outs the DI starts _actually_ working.
  so i have to waste A LOT of time EVERY time when i want to experiment with upsampling, etc.
  do you have this problem?


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





faudrei said:


> wait 10 seconds, plug power back to DI, play music, hear what happens.


 


  due to the second problem (with identifying DI by PC), i believe that 30 minutes of turning it on and off did the job. it didn't help 
  would you kindly provide a link to the "buffer corruption" discussion, please?


----------



## svyr

kr0gg said:


> UPDATE #2:
> i've just received an USB isolator, so i've unplugged the cable again - to try the new toy.
> 
> alas, when plugged back (the "good cable"), the inbalance returned.
> that leaves connection problem or device problem in the list of possible reasons




what isolator brand? I sent one to drez to try with his unit but he had some sort of problems with his pc not recognizing the DI via the isolator (Aimagin)


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





svyr said:


> what isolator brand? I sent one to drez to try with his unit but he had some sort of problems with his pc not recognizing the DI via the isolator (Aimagin)


 
   
  "Olimex".
  http://www.olimex.com/dev/usb-iso.html
   
  When i first plugged DI through it (using 2 usb cables) - it was recognized. Even more - i was happy that it did exactly what i wanted - removed electrical noises coming from PC via USB line.
  but.. a few minutes later i found out that the previous sound balance problem (not relevant to usb-isolator) was not cured actually.
  and you know the rest of the story 
   
  ALSO i'd like to add that some guys reported that DI is hardly recognized after being unplugged and re-plugged while feeded from PSU...
  but nor "PSU-case", nor "usb-isolator-case" are not my cases. My DI has difficulties on recognition by itself . i actually hope that all DI's behave the same, because i don't want to ship it back to China.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> "Olimex".
> http://www.olimex.com/dev/usb-iso.html
> 
> When i first plugged DI through it (using 2 usb cables) - it was recognized. Even more - i was happy that it did exactly what i wanted - removed electrical noises coming from PC via USB line.
> ...


 

 Maybe it's time to get a Mac =)


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





uelover said:


> Maybe it's time to get a Mac =)


 


  nay. don't have this kind of money 
  i was thinking about learning Linux and building a separate HTPC or buying a notebook for playing music/movies. (my main PC produces TONS of noises)


----------



## kr0gg

i'll try plugging my DI into a notebook with WinXP this evening. will see if it makes difference.


----------



## kr0gg

guys!
  getting a USB-isolator for DI us a MUST 
  it clears sound really nice, making it even more transparent


----------



## Denys

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> guys!
> getting a USB-isolator for DI us a MUST
> it clears sound really nice, making it even more transparent


 

 May I please ask what's a USB isolator ?
   
  Denys


----------



## kr0gg

it's a device that connects between your PC's USB port and any USB device. this isolator electrically decouples them and eliminates unwanted electrical hum coming from dirty PC' power lines.
  there's a variety of those, after some searches i've bought this one:
  http://www.olimex.com/dev/usb-iso.html
   
  these guys have a representative in US and for some reason it costs there even cheaper than originally in Europe
   
  there's a guy named "leeperry" here that bought a bunch of different usb-isolators and compared them. you can search for his impressions


----------



## Denys

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> it's a device that connects between your PC's USB port and any USB device. this isolator electrically decouples them and eliminates unwanted electrical hum coming from dirty PC' power lines.
> there's a variety of those, after some searches i've bought this one:
> http://www.olimex.com/dev/usb-iso.html
> 
> ...


 

 It's not so expensive.....they have a representative in Canada.....they don't seem to have it in stock but I could ask them if they could have it...
   
  I could use it with my coming NFB8... I did not order a DI.... The one I have, I use it with my REF5...
   
  Thanks for the tip anyway...
   
  Denys


----------



## Eunegis

Quote:


kr0gg said:


> nay. don't have this kind of money
> i was thinking about learning Linux and building a separate HTPC or buying a notebook for playing music/movies. (my main PC produces TONS of noises)


 


 My warm suggestion:
   
  don't do it in Linux (though I like it, too) - build up a *cMP²*-System instead! (= "cics memory player" PC)
  That's a very well proven and well documented system that can be realized for a reasonable amount of money.
  You can vary the plans to your needs, technically and optically. Many different options are available.
   
  Take a look at http://www.cicsmemoryplayer.com/ and use it as a source of inspiration!
  You'll find a good starting point on that page, but you don't need to stick slavishly to it.
   
  Further sources of information and inspiration are
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/etv.mpl?forum=pcaudio (the basic forum), and as parts of that:
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=27041 (comprehensive!) and
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=31286 (comprehensive as well).
   
  Its truly worthwile. You'll learn a lot and have much fun with it (as long as you feel a slight affinity to PCs).


----------



## Denys

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> it's a device that connects between your PC's USB port and any USB device. this isolator electrically decouples them and eliminates unwanted electrical hum coming from dirty PC' power lines.
> there's a variety of those, after some searches i've bought this one:
> http://www.olimex.com/dev/usb-iso.html
> 
> ...


 

 I just spoke to the rep here in Montreal... He'll verify if he has any in stock and how much it costs... We'll take it from there...
   
  Denys


----------



## somestranger26

Here's a link I found to leeperry's comparison of a couple different USB isolators: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/496735/firestone-bravo-24-96-usb-transport-w-o-drivers-reclocker/300#post_7126768 he seems to prefer the Aimagin one to the USB2ISO. I'm thinking about getting one.


----------



## kr0gg

well, from my point of view... speaking of a dongle which costs almost $100 shipped and one for $50...there's too much price difference than possible SQ difference.
  i've bought DI from Audio-gd for $145 shipped, its original PSU here in FS forum for $50 shipped. paying half of their price seems kind of unrational to me.
   
  oh, and by the way - the USB2ISO that he speaks of in that post is not the Olimex one that i speak about. he bought the Olimex one only later and from my memory - actually preferred it over all other dongles


----------



## somestranger26

I read a few more pages and indeed it appears he likes the Olimex the best and it's cheapest. Found some in the U.S. for $41 shipped here http://microcontrollershop.com/product_info.php?products_id=3769 pretty good price.


----------



## uelover

Hmm what use is a USB isolator if we are using an external power to power our DI instead of drawing the current from the USB port?
   
  Seems like there is the USB DC power option too.


----------



## Denys

Quote: 





uelover said:


> Hmm what use is a USB isolator if we are using an external power to power our DI instead of drawing the current from the USB port?
> 
> Seems like there is the USB DC power option too.


 


 Well, I did not order a DI with my NFB-8 that I'll get in a few weeks. The CAD rep sells me a USB isolator for less than $50 CAD.... I'll give it a try.....I find the risk is minimal...
   
  Denys


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





denys said:


> Well, I did not order a DI with my NFB-8 that I'll get in a few weeks. The CAD rep sells me a USB isolator for less than $50 CAD.... I'll give it a try.....I find the risk is minimal...
> 
> Denys


 

 Yeah your case I can understand, as with any other people who use direct USB connection for their DAC.
   
  I am just curious about the need for one when using a DAC with the DI (with PSU).


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





uelover said:


> Hmm what use is a USB isolator if we are using an external power to power our DI instead of drawing the current from the USB port?
> 
> Seems like there is the USB DC power option too.


 


  its not about feeding it with power from PC.
  the problem is that even with external PSU there is electrical contact with PC through the USB cable which transmits noises.
  you can check it like this: disconnect your DI from PC, keep your DAC and AMP turned on. now turn the AMP volume to the max and after that connect your DI the way it is supposed to work. you will hear that with DI in chain there will be new noises.
  you might think that if those noises are audible only on extreme amping levels (which noone uses in real life), then that is not a problem.
  well, i should say that it actually is and an isolator makes audible difference on usual listening levels


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> its not about feeding it with power from PC.
> the problem is that even with external PSU there is electrical contact with PC through the USB cable which transmits noises.
> you can check it like this: disconnect your DI from PC, keep your DAC and AMP turned on. now turn the AMP volume to the max and after that connect your DI the way it is supposed to work. you will hear that with DI in chain there will be new noises.
> you might think that if those noises are audible only on extreme amping levels (which noone uses in real life), then that is not a problem.
> well, i should say that it actually is and an isolator makes audible difference on usual listening levels


 


  I have tried the above-mentioned.
   
  I seriously hear nothing. No noise nor whatsoever with all volume pot maxed out.
   
  Seems like you have got a 'dirty' USB port.


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





uelover said:


> Seems like you have got a 'dirty' USB port.


 


  the problem might be in the fact that most of buildings (and the one where i live) don't have electrical grounding. but it's not a problem anymore.
  at least for my USB connection


----------



## wushuliu

Quote: 





borrego said:


> You may want to keep the new chip in longer to let it "burn-in" a bit. My replacement TI 74AHC04 made the DI sounded very harsh like you mentioned at the beginning, it "settled down" after 10 hours or so. I found the improvements brought by the TI chip is at the bass frequency region, with a lot more textures and dimensions.
> 
> For your information: Depending on the operation temperature and voltage, the DI's stock 74HC4 chip would have 15-25ns signal propagation delay going from low (0)to high (1), the 74VHC variant chips give 2.5ns to 8ns delay. The highly praised Audiophileo 1 USB-SPDIF converter default delay is at 700ps (0.7ns) and allow the user to tune for longer delay. The Audiophileo 2 fixes it at 700ps.
> 
> Usually the shorter the delay, the better it will sound. But other value "could" sound better depending on coaxle cable length the amount of signal reflection.


 


 Yes, I take back my thoughts on it. There were some gear changes that may have been the cause; once I got those sorted out and tried the AHC again, the hardness was gone.


----------



## somestranger26

uelover said:


> I have tried the above-mentioned.
> 
> I seriously hear nothing. No noise nor whatsoever with all volume pot maxed out.
> 
> Seems like you have got a 'dirty' USB port.




It's pretty faint, but I can hear a very small amount of noise if I turn my amp all the way up and the isolator removed it. I wouldn't call it a dirty USB port since I only have one device connected to that bus.



kr0gg said:


> the problem might be in the fact that most of buildings (and the one where i live) don't have electrical grounding. but it's not a problem anymore.
> at least for my USB connection




My house is definitely grounded and I can tell an overall improvement with the Olimex isolator. Unlike upgrading the USB cable, etc. I can't pinpoint specific improvements with it.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Hmm I think it should be noted that 1) my country is different from yours and 2) I am running off battery powered laptop.
   
  I am maxing my speaker volume which is freaking loud.


----------



## somestranger26

uelover said:


> Hmm I think it should be noted that 1) my country is different from yours and 2) I am running off battery powered laptop.
> 
> I am maxing my speaker volume which is freaking loud.




I hear zero difference between my battery powered laptop and my desktop, in fact if anything I think my desktop sounds better. Have you put your ear up next to the tweeters on your speakers? The noise from USB is so faint it's usually inaudible.

Besides the isolator, I also got some deoxit and sprayed some on the dc barrels since they're just nickel plated, which may have also made a slight improvement.


----------



## kr0gg

i guess those AktimateMini speakers have a  roll-off on high frequencies.
  also, that hum was also audible on my notebook - battery powered and plugged into the wall. no difference.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> i guess those AktimateMini speakers have a  roll-off on high frequencies.
> also, that hum was also audible on my notebook - battery powered and plugged into the wall. no difference.


 


 You must be jealous of my speakers. =)
   
  So am I supposed to feel happy and glad because there is no noise on my USB port? Lol.


----------



## leeperry

Hi guys, that's the most active Tenor device thread so I thought I'd ask.
   
  A friend of mine has a TE7022L device that works perfectly on XP x86, but in whatever W7 x86 or W7 x64 all it says is "the device cannot start" in the device manager. I've read in this thread that some ppl seemed to encounter the same issue w/ the DI...what's up w/ that? how to fix it? the TeraX2 drivers won't work either.
   
  Thanks for any hint!
   
*PS:* he's trying those drivers now: http://www.mediafire.com/?nco9h9yzbtsyi02


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





uelover said:


> You must be jealous of my speakers. =)
> 
> So am I supposed to feel happy and glad because there is no noise on my USB port? Lol.


 


  actually i've checked their frequency responce graph


----------



## kr0gg

-


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Hi guys, that's the most active Tenor device thread so I thought I'd ask.
> 
> A friend of mine has a TE7022L device that works perfectly on XP x86, but in whatever W7 x86 or W7 x64 all it says is "the device cannot start" in the device manager. I've read in this thread that some ppl seemed to encounter the same issue w/ the DI...what's up w/ that? how to fix it? the TeraX2 drivers won't work either.
> 
> ...


 

 i had that issue too.
  i think his device actually can start, but only after 15-20 plug-ins/plug-outs.
  that's the way i was dealing with this problem until i received the Olimex isolator thingie.
  ..with it the DI could start only once in 50 plugging operations ))
  BUT i've found out that when the Olimex dongle is feeded by its own PSU, my DI  ALWAYS could start.
  so i guess this has something to do with Win7 usb-power distribution.
   
  PS: i experimented with default Win7 drivers and Ploytec USB drivers and there was no difference in chances of turning the DI on.
  oh, also - and important note: i have an external PSU for Digital Interface, but i switch DI to feeding from it after it is recongized by PC. for some reason even when being fed from this PSU the DI cannot start too.


----------



## somestranger26

When I have this issue all I have to do is leave the DI off for 30 seconds and try again.


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Hi guys, that's the most active Tenor device thread so I thought I'd ask.
> 
> A friend of mine has a TE7022L device that works perfectly on XP x86, but in whatever W7 x86 or W7 x64 all it says is "the device cannot start" in the device manager. I've read in this thread that some ppl seemed to encounter the same issue w/ the DI...what's up w/ that? how to fix it? the TeraX2 drivers won't work either.
> 
> ...


 


  I have been using the DI for 8 months and I have been having the same issue since April 2011 on 2 different Windows 7 Service Pack 1 notebooks. 4 days ago there was a batch of Windows 7 updates components available from Microsoft (none of those were USB audio related). I installed those updates and the DI problem is gone.
   
  So I suppose the problem is Windows 7 related.
   
  I use the default Windows 7 driver and WASAPI.


----------



## leeperry

OK, thanks for the feedback fellas!

Well, my friend has tried on both W7 x86 and x64(both are up to date in Windows Update) and plugging/unplugging the damn thing like +30 times...still a no go! Sometimes it works using the TeraX2 drivers, but it seems to take a friggin' miracle?! He's also tried the USB2ISO 4160 dongle, to no available.

I'm pretty surprised as TE7022L works like a charm on XPSP3, and I guess it works perfectly for most everyone in this thread using W7...strange world?! Maybe it's not compatible w/ certain USB controllers. m2tech do recommend NEC chips.

Anyway, I've seen some discussions about ADuM4160 in this thread recently. I've tried my good share of dongles, and yes the Olimex was the best sounding to my ears on my own gear(see my profile for more details).

The thing is that in the meantime I've discussed w/ a chinese maker of audiophool toys and he seemed pretty clear about leaving the data lines untouched...and I suddenly got to hear what he meant. ADuM4160 messes w/ the data lines big time, if you want to isolate the power lines you either have to use ADuM5000 or some other bigger chips(but the ripple of those chips is outrageous, 5000 included!). To me 4160 has been like upsampling, something that wears out after a while...it's a fun toy for 1 day/1 week/1 month, but after 3 months I got utterly bored of the veil it adds to the trebles.

I thought the NO-EQ team was right, and 4160 allowed me to play audio bit-perfect...but in fine, I prefer to skip 4160 and use a proper prefessional EQ to kill my ear canals resonances(following this tutorial: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/413900/) more precisely. Besides, I've stuffed my ortho phone w/ acoustic foam so there's barely any need for EQ...just a tiny bit to make the trebles FR leaner.

I think the best way to avoid groundloops over USB is to use a simple pulse transformer over the power lines, it won't temper w/ the USB data lines...only isolate the dirty computer ground


----------



## drez

completely clueless question but is the usb receiver on the DI galvanically isolated?


----------



## attenuated 3db

Quote:


drez said:


> completely clueless question but is the usb receiver on the DI galvanically isolated?


 

 No.
   
   
http://www.tweak-fi.com/apps/blog/show/5029064-the-usb-to-spdif-shoot-out-review-part-2-teralink-x2-vs-jkeny-s-modified-hiface-vs-audio-gd-digital-interface


----------



## K3cT

I'm still not sure which converter to get... the Digital Interface or MHDT USBridge. Do any of you guys have experience with the latter? It seems to be a true asynchronous unit based on the chipset it's using.


----------



## Gwarlek

Can't decide either. Splitting between M2Tech Hiface, Digital Interface and MHDT USBridge. Maybe I don't even need such convertor, since I have Audio-gd DAC19DSP?


----------



## tim3320070

The DI is better than the built-in USB of any of the AGD dac's.


----------



## Sganzerla

Got mine today.
   

   
   It sounds a little better than what I was experiencing before, a little more robust sound at bottom, lighter at top and more defined, but... I really hope it gets better with time!
   I'll add the Furutech GT2 USB cable someone is selling here at Head-Fi soon too.
   
   Will play a little with buffer, sampling rate/upsampling soon.


----------



## somestranger26

I recommend getting a USB isolator over a better USB cable.
   
  Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> The DI is better than the built-in USB of any of the AGD dac's.


 

 And the Hiface too.


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> I recommend getting a USB isolator over a better USB cable.


 
   
  Which one and at what price? What improvements did you get and where do you place this USB isolator?


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> Which one and at what price? What improvements did you get and where do you place this USB isolator?


 
   
  http://www.olimex.com/dev/usb-iso.html which you can get from microcontrollerpros for $41 shipped. I have mine connected directly to the DI with a usb a male to b male adapter from amazon.
   
  The improvement is huge -- larger soundstage, deeper bass, more detail, crisper treble and 'less digital, more analog.' I would say it makes a similar or slightly larger difference than upgrading the hex inverter, it's better than the power supply (the psu may be a factor in the isolator's performance), and way better than adding an ultraviolet usb cable.


----------



## hifimiami

DI driver not recognized by Windows 7/64. I have the DI with PSU and experienced the problem (driver not recognized) and discovered I have to turn DI (with power supply) on and then turn on PC if however I turn PC on and than the DI the message driver missing appears. When the  problem appeared the first time I had been using the DI for about a month turning the PC on first than the DI with no problem. The problem started after I removed the cables to relocate the DI location all the connections were done with the power off on the PC and DI. As long as I turn the DI (power first) and the PC after no problem.
  I'm interested in the USB isolator but want to know if there is any benefit if it is used with the DI + PSU?
   
  I'm very impressed by the DI performance I was using a "Pop Pulse II" digital transport previously and the sonic performance of the DI are superior. Bass is more defined and controlled, midrange and treble smoother sound stage is wider with better instrument separation.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





hifimiami said:


> I'm interested in the USB isolator but want to know if there is any benefit if it is used with the DI + PSU?


 
  Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> The improvement is huge -- larger soundstage, deeper bass, more detail, crisper treble and 'less digital, more analog.' I would say it makes a similar or slightly larger difference than upgrading the hex inverter,* it's better than the power supply (the psu may be a factor in the isolator's performance)*, and way better than adding an ultraviolet usb cable.


----------



## haloxt

Does anyone know how hard it'd be to allow the DI to take a 5V clock instead of the normal 3V 24.576mhz one? I've been really tempted to try this lol.
   
  http://cgi.ebay.com/Vanguard-Ultra-precision-Golden-TCXO-0-3ppm-24-576MHz-/120705132056?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item1c1a962618


----------



## Currawong

Probably not as easy as just finding a similar grade 3V online.


----------



## haloxt

I asked the ebay seller selling vanguard tcxo's and he responded that "[size=10pt]Vanguard clock work on 3.3V too."[/size]
   
  Kingwa responded with "I think 5V not best, the DI supply to the clock only 3V3.
  But I think can work."
   
  I will be trying it though, since I just broke two of the tcxo's legs  mostly from bending damage when I first thought I had to force the legs into the sockets the original xo were in.


----------



## kr0gg

uhm. i actually used some force and found out that clock's legs come inside the socket completely.
  (yeah...removing the original glue from the socket was a difficult task. did everyone have their default clock glued into the socket?)


----------



## kr0gg

oh. by the way!
   
  does anyone know a way to make the DI put out a "bit-perfect" stream?
  my DAC doesn't recognize HDCD recordings when being fed from DI (i've checked Windows settings, tried KS, wasapi, ASIO with any possible settings - none of them helped).


----------



## kr0gg

also - can anyone tell me what "attenuation feature" is this guy talking about in a Digital Interface review?
  http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/30769-Audio-GD-Digital-Interface-Unit-A-GD-Class-A-External-PSU-impressions


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> does anyone know a way to make the DI put out a "bit-perfect" stream?
> my DAC doesn't recognize HDCD recordings when being fed from DI (i've checked Windows settings, tried KS, wasapi, ASIO with any possible settings - none of them helped).


 

 It's impossible. The DI reclocks or something and interrupts HDCD/DD/DTS streams. It was discussed maybe 50 pages back or so if you search.


----------



## ninjikiran

It has an I2S which is nice if your dac has one, but tbh it also has a C-media chip in there and thus far I do not associate their brand with quality.
  
  Quote: 





k3ct said:


> I'm still not sure which converter to get... the Digital Interface or MHDT USBridge. Do any of you guys have experience with the latter? It seems to be a true asynchronous unit based on the chipset it's using.


----------



## hawkhead

Thanks (you missed a w) address is http://www.olimex.com/dev/usb-iso.html
  
  Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> http://www.olimex.com/dev/usb-iso.html which you can get from microcontrollerpros for $41 shipped. I have mine connected directly to the DI with a usb a male to b male adapter from amazon.
> 
> The improvement is huge -- larger soundstage, deeper bass, more detail, crisper treble and 'less digital, more analog.' I would say it makes a similar or slightly larger difference than upgrading the hex inverter, it's better than the power supply (the psu may be a factor in the isolator's performance), and way better than adding an ultraviolet usb cable.


----------



## K3cT

Quote: 





ninjikiran said:


> It has an I2S which is nice if your dac has one, but tbh it also has a C-media chip in there and thus far I do not associate their brand with quality.


 

 I'm not aware that C-media is associated with mediocre quality. Would you mind explaining why?
   
  BTW, the folks at MHDT seem like a nice and knowledgeable bunch of folks. I've been asking some technical questions and they are keen to answer them...


----------



## KZCloud89

Hi guys,
   
  I'm having some problem using the DI.  It's making scratchy noise at a consistant 1-second interval while music playing.  However it's dead silent when volume is turned all the way down. 
   
  Here's my setup :
   
  Computer > generic USB cable > DI > Harmonic Technology 75 ohm coaxial cable > NFB-10WM.
   
  There's also scratchy noise directly out of the NFB-10WM.  And using battery only still produces the same noise.
   
  Thanks


----------



## attenuated 3db

Well, after having been subscribed to this thread since last year, I finally ordered a Digitial Interface this week.  Has anybody experienced inordinate delays with order fulfillment and shipping, like with the NFB-2/3 DACs?  I'd like to get my DI sooner rather than later, so I can turn over my little entry-level Teralink X2 quickly to help cover the DI's cost. It was one of those I-can't-quite-afford-it-but-I've-wanted-it-for-so-long purchases....


----------



## KZCloud89

Update guys.  After numberous attemps under sound setup properties, plugging and and unplugging ICs, turns things on/off on different order.  The culprit is the USB input.  For unknown reasons, just 1 of the 10 USB inputs is making music without noise.
   

  
  Quote: 





kzcloud89 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'm having some problem using the DI.  It's making scratchy noise at a consistant 1-second interval while music playing.  However it's dead silent when volume is turned all the way down.
> 
> ...


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





attenuated 3db said:


> Well, after having been subscribed to this thread since last year, I finally ordered a Digitial Interface this week.  Has anybody experienced inordinate delays with order fulfillment and shipping, like with the NFB-2/3 DACs?  I'd like to get my DI sooner rather than later, so I can turn over my little entry-level Teralink X2 quickly to help cover the DI's cost. It was one of those I-can't-quite-afford-it-but-I've-wanted-it-for-so-long purchases....


 


  Yes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Everyone who ordered between December and April seemed to have some pretty crazy delays. I think they're less busy now.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





kzcloud89 said:


> Update guys.  After numberous attemps under sound setup properties, plugging and and unplugging ICs, turns things on/off on different order.  The culprit is the USB input.  For unknown reasons, just 1 of the 10 USB inputs is making music without noise.


 

 Could you try another USB cable ( a brand new one if available) ? Do you mean 1 of the 10 USB outputs on your computer ?  What peripherals do you have on your computers USB bus ? Could you test the DI ---> NFB 10 using a CDP/DVDP as source/transport (COAX out) and then take the DI out of the loop feeding the NFB-10 from the CDP/DVDP's COAX output ? This will narrow down the possibilities or culprit rather quickly.  What media player are you using and what driver/OS combination ? A-gd gear is sensitive to any noise/hash what have you  over any of the digital inputs selected. USB seems to be the most troublesome of the 3 input types (if your mobo and PSU combination inject a lot of unrelated spurious junk into the data stream).
   
  Peete.


----------



## KZCloud89

Hi Peete,
   
  Sorry for not being so clear but the noise problem has been solved.  The DI and NFB-10WM is working fine now.
   
  If I use the 4 USB out directly from the laptop, it produces noise.  I also have 10 ports USB hub connected to the laptop for peripherals and there is 1 port that I connect the DI to is making beautiful music hehe.  I have no idea why others USB ports are making noise.


----------



## Sganzerla

Well, I changed my power cord from computer to the Audio-GD DI and it improved very much. Now I'm buying another power cord for my PC to see what happens, I really don't know if this time there will be an improvement in sound because the clock is off the computer, but for the piece of mind...
   
   I don't feel anymore like maybe I should have invested this money in another piece of gear. By the way, looks like the upsampling works better than no upsampling. People say it sounds a little harsh without 'burn in' but this is exactly the opposite I found compared to the stock setting. Lets see what happens in some days, than I'll try to compare both again.
   
   One of the big differences I found with my DI right now was that the soundstage improved very much, stereo separation and there is more height, vocals are higher in space than other instruments, decay is longer too.
   
   And I bought the USB Isolator and the Furutech GT2 cable, I hope both improves the sound too.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





kzcloud89 said:


> Hi Peete,
> 
> Sorry for not being so clear but the noise problem has been solved.  The DI and NFB-10WM is working fine now.
> 
> If I use the 4 USB out directly from the laptop, it produces noise.  I also have 10 ports USB hub connected to the laptop for peripherals and there is 1 port that I connect the DI to is making beautiful music hehe.  I have no idea why others USB ports are making noise.


 

 Whoops my mistake....glad it's solved. Laptop USB ports are hit or miss it seems. Are you using the USB port to power the DI by any chance ?
   
  Peete.


----------



## KZCloud89

Yes the DI is powered by the USB port.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





kzcloud89 said:


> Yes the DI is powered by the USB port.


 


  You likely found the one port that is supplying clean juice ....I know on the Acer laptop we have here only one of the 3 ports supplies power for charging IPOD batteries. You might want to look into an outboard PSU for the DI (wall wart type) or maybe invest in the DI PSU down the road. It's a worthwhile upgrade.
   
  Peete.


----------



## KZCloud89

Yes been thinking of picking up the DI PSU also...after the WA22 upgrade though.
   
  Thanks for your help.


----------



## tim3320070

I've read several places that hubs are a no-no for USB audio streaming. But if it works, it works (but I would try a port directly from the source to make sure).


----------



## drez

Quote: 





sganzerla said:


> Well, I changed my power cord from computer to the Audio-GD DI and it improved very much. Now I'm buying another power cord for my PC to see what happens, I really don't know if this time there will be an improvement in sound because the clock is off the computer, but for the piece of mind...
> 
> I don't feel anymore like maybe I should have invested this money in another piece of gear. By the way, looks like the upsampling works better than no upsampling. People say it sounds a little harsh without 'burn in' but this is exactly the opposite I found compared to the stock setting. Lets see what happens in some days, than I'll try to compare both again.
> 
> ...


 
  With 44.1 khz material I find that the upsampling tends to smooth over a lot of the low level details and I would only recommend it if you have problems with the DI when running without upsampling.  Other reviews tend to concur that the upsampling isn't optimal for 44.1 material - but you may like it depending on personal preference.
   
  Don't understand what you mean by "power cord from computer to the Audio-GD DI" - are you running some sort of power arrangement from your computer PSU?  Or are you running the AGD power supply?  Which power cable are you using?


----------



## ninjikiran

Cheap products that sound ok   I wouldn't associate them with high end though. 
  Though the chip they are using in that spdif interface is a newer model.
  Quote: 





k3ct said:


> I'm not aware that C-media is associated with mediocre quality. Would you mind explaining why?
> 
> BTW, the folks at MHDT seem like a nice and knowledgeable bunch of folks. I've been asking some technical questions and they are keen to answer them...


----------



## Sganzerla

Thats strange, drez, because with upsampling the first tought was very different from you. I'll be back again with a comparison soon, to see if I change my mind.
   
   Some time ago, I upgraded one of my component power cords and there was one left, so I tought, let's see what happens if I put it on my computer (that is my transport since) - the improvement was not small - so it stayed there.
   
  I bought this DI and found a little improvement over my computer (computer with PS Audio AC3 power cord and DI with stock cable). Then I tough, what happens if I now change my PS Audio power cable to the power supply of the DI instead of the computer? And everything went in its place, the improvements were again not small. At this time the best power cable is in the power supply of DI instead of my computer - I changed what one would do.
   
   Now I need to put another power cable of the same quality on my computer and see what happens, of course this is not a small $$$ upgrade, but it may be worth.


----------



## drez

I would hesitate getting into computer power tweaks -AFAIK most of the noise from the PC power supply that may be affecting the USB output is coming from other components, not from the power cable, there's a whole host of things in a PC which may or may not affect jitter before looking to a power cord - eg computer PSU quality, hardware selection + hardware/software settings, hardware and software latency etc.  Another thing to think about is that just about any power cord is also passing on any line noise it has collected unless it is fed filtered power, unless you believe the theories some manufacturers put forward about skin effect and various other passive 'filtering' supposedly done by the cable (but never actually measured).  Typically what you get with audiophile products compared to Pro-audio is a complete absence of performance measurements, misleading technical descriptions and an inflated price - be wary.  Some of the above tweaks are testable (eg latency) which makes life easier to verify an improvement.  With a computer power cable it is very difficult to compare as you must first reset the computer before you can directly compare - not like switching out the power cable to the DI power supply ( I hope your tested thoroughly) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  IMO tweak away as long as there is a solid theoretical basis for your tweaks, or unless the tweak costs you nothing!


----------



## Sganzerla

Drez, unfortunately even thinking that a power cable in my computer should not affect the audio, this is not what I found, and I'll try this again as soon as the new power cable reaches my home, and report back my findings.
   
   I'd like to see more people testing it, even for the power supply of the DI, and write here if they found any differences.


----------



## drez

I can't rule out that this wont have an affect - all I would expect is that a direct comparison will be difficult as listening samples will be at least a couple of minutes apart, and very bothersome to do 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  Pretty easy to forget exact audio qualities when samples are that far apart.
   
  If you already ordered one may as well do your best to thoroughly compare them - but I wouldn't personally be brave enough to shell out money to test it.


----------



## svyr

drez said:


> I can't rule out that this wont have an affect - all I would expect is that a direct comparison will be difficult as listening samples will be at least a couple of minutes apart, and very bothersome to do
> 
> 
> 
> ...




that's why we should record the output and compare it objectively  (pref using measurements  )


----------



## haloxt

I've played around with power cables for source equipment and for the computer. I think stock 14 awg power cables are maybe 75-90% of $75 9-12 awg power cables, depending on how sensitive individual gear are to power cables. I believe power cable shortcomings become more noticeable when you have more, ie if you put a thin long power cable source equipment, and a thick power cable on a power amplifier, the amplifier will have a more stable soundstage and reveal how wobbly the source is making the sound. This increases if your speakers/headphones and cables are revealing as well. If you don't want to spend much on power cables, yet are curious, I'd recommend getting some monoprice.com 14 awg power cables, just buy a dozen so you're set for life . They range from $1-$2. http://www.monoprice.com/products/search.asp?keyword=14awg+power&x=0&y=0
   
  For my computer, I use $30 14 awg power cables, 430w antec earthwatt psu (relatively low jitter) and an ac-215 power conditioner. Altogether, I think it makes a notable improvement in ccmputer as source. I got multiple mp3 players hoping the spdif output would be better, but my silly computer still has superior sound quality from usb . Cplay is the best-sounding software I've used.


----------



## drez

@haloxt how do you select low jitter computer power supply?


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





drez said:


> @haloxt how do you select low jitter computer power supply?


 

  
  i guess he meant low-noise


----------



## haloxt

Yep, I meant low noise and low ripple. There's sometimes a big variety of ripple scores, so look at the ripple rating before buying a new psu. The antec psu I have was replaced with a new earthwatts 430w model, which seems to have very bad reviews about the build quality, so I'd advise you to stay away from it.
   
  This website has good reviews with ripple information. I wouldn't spend more than $75 on a psu though .
   
  http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Review_Cat&recatnum=13


----------



## drez

good website!  I don't think I'm going to get much lower ripple than what my PSU (Antec CP1000) at my load (470W) is producing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - looks like less that 10mW:
  Will be interesting to see if the DI psu makes any improvements, or whether I just get an Audiphilleo...


----------



## catchedge

How difficult is it to switch the semiconductor to something like a 74VHC04N as previously described?


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





catchedge said:


> How difficult is it to switch the semiconductor to something like a 74VHC04N as previously described?


 

 1 minute and a pair of pliers or a chip puller. Simple.


----------



## wushuliu

Before playing with power cables it may be a better idea to ensure your PC is getting good quality power from a power conditioner or similar like APC voltage regulator ($50 4 outlets on AMAZON). PCs are extremely sensitive to what's coming out yor wall, especially if you live in a big city. It took me a long time to realize this. For years I would get various BSODs and crashes (in different cities, with different gear) sometimes often sometimes not so often. When I moved to LA it got out of control and after I realized the bulbs in my apt. were also burning out quickly I began to associate power with PC performance. Once I got the APC voltage regulator/conditioner, I have had ZERO crashes regardless of where I live and after changing my PC gear many times. This is over a 3 year period. Again, zero crashes. Same with my laptop.
   
  I'll let you make your own assumptions as to whether this would benefit sound quality and PC performance overall.


----------



## Dynobot

Good 0.02
   
  I've been there and done that concerning every post in this thread about the DI and computers.
   
  Adum isolators
  Tentlabs clocks
  High end USB cables
  Linear regulated power supplies
  etc' etc
   
  Best thing is to look at the source ie the power feeding your gear...esp computers which are noisy polluters.
  Quote: 





wushuliu said:


> Before playing with power cables it may be a better idea to ensure your PC is getting good quality power from a power conditioner or similar like APC voltage regulator ($50 4 outlets on AMAZON). PCs are extremely sensitive to what's coming out yor wall, especially if you live in a big city. It took me a long time to realize this. For years I would get various BSODs and crashes (in different cities, with different gear) sometimes often sometimes not so often. When I moved to LA it got out of control and after I realized the bulbs in my apt. were also burning out quickly I began to associate power with PC performance. Once I got the APC voltage regulator/conditioner, I have had ZERO crashes regardless of where I live and after changing my PC gear many times. This is over a 3 year period. Again, zero crashes. Same with my laptop.
> 
> I'll let you make your own assumptions as to whether this would benefit sound quality and PC performance overall.


----------



## sphinxvc

Looks like they're having a sale, 5% off DI.


----------



## svyr

wushuliu said:


> Before playing with power cables it may be a better idea to ensure your PC is getting good quality power from a power conditioner or similar like APC voltage regulator ($50 4 outlets on AMAZON). PCs are extremely sensitive to what's coming out yor wall, especially if you live in a big city. It took me a long time to realize this. For years I would get various BSODs and crashes (in different cities, with different gear) sometimes often sometimes not so often. When I moved to LA it got out of control and after I realized the bulbs in my apt. were also burning out quickly I began to associate power with PC performance. Once I got the APC voltage regulator/conditioner, I have had ZERO crashes regardless of where I live and after changing my PC gear many times. This is over a 3 year period. Again, zero crashes. Same with my laptop.
> 
> I'll let you make your own assumptions as to whether this would benefit sound quality and PC performance overall.




According to the reviews the voltage reg times on the apc unit are pretty poor. (2AC cycles/50ms for 50hz or 30 for 60hz). Probably more to do with the change of PCs  . If you have a large compressor (fridge/aircon) on the same circuit, chances are the apc reg won't do much.
Incandescent light-bulbs are not affected by slight voltage variation in the slightest by the way . (+- 10v is not a problem)

Over the past few month I've had a look at the voltage regulators and filters with drez and it looks like there isn't much hope in terms of value for money out there... Most products have relay based controllers that switch between transformer taps regulating at 5-10v grain and filters that only deal with 100khz up. The price on pretty much all the products found was very far from justified. 
Some manufacturers release crappy units that only do the said crude voltage reg and no filtering at all and claim outrageous improvements. As will many other areas in audio, power conditioning is full or epic fraud

That said, I don't imagine the expensive audiophile units performing much better than the APC one + a good filter board in terms of setting time/arresting the troughs and peaks and filtering attenuation.


----------



## drez

unless you think $4k+ for online ups system or other high power ac->dc->ac style systems is good value (It is a lot of hardware).  If you want an effective solution to bad power problems that seems to be the going price though.


----------



## kr0gg

i've read a lot about voltage regulators and ups-devices and found out that the only ones that would enhance anything related by any way to audio are "On-line" devices that have a true sine output (back-ups and line-interactive ones will only make things worse because they give out only approximated sine)
  also - yes, most of those devices have a really poor voltage correction because they are supposed to work with PC's, servers and stuff like that which are not really sensitive to 10v-20v voltage fluctuations


----------



## wushuliu

Not so interested in abstract debate about performance specs, which either ends up nowhere or with someone then suggesting some impossible DIY build that no one will actually attempt. Real world experience and 15 years of building my own PCs = voltage regulators/conditioners are a very good idea, at least if you live in a big city.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





drez said:


> unless you think *$4k+* for online ups system or other high power ac->dc->ac style systems is good value (It is a lot of hardware).  If you want an effective solution to bad power problems that seems to be the going price though.


 
   
  A Power Plant Premier can handle 1500W and I regularly see them for $1k or less on Audiogon.


----------



## haloxt

The types of filtering that prevent/reduce damage to electronics are not automatically the types of filtering that are, at least in theory, good for sound quality. I use audio-gd's pretty simple power filter outlet on my main setup because it sounds better than my ac-215, but if the power grid acts up I'd definitely use the ac-215 instead since it was meant to protect equipment.
   
  The power grid in the USA isn't that fantastic so I would suggest not skimping on good protection at least for your computer and tv. And some of the bozos in control want to do things like this http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/06/27/scitech/main20074627.shtml


----------



## drez

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> A Power Plant Premier can handle 1500W and I regularly see them for $1k or less on Audiogon.


 


  yeah I saw a 230V version on ebay but I missed it by a months DX."  230V power regulation gear seems less common, less variety to chose from


----------



## log0

Hello,
  I'd like some feedback on a proposed setup. I have a Audio-GD Reference One coming on the way! The only problem is, how do I connect to it? My source would be an newer iMac model which I know is capable of outputting optical digital. The Reference One only accepts a BNC and Coax.
   
  Now I can buy a spiffy optical to coax converter from monoprice (linked below) or I could go the way of Audio-GD's Digital Interface.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10423&cs_id=1042302&p_id=2948&seq=1&format=2
   
  I've spent several days reading opinions and getting educated as to what is believed to be a better connection. On one hand I have the cheap monoprice converter which will convert a digital signal (optical) into another digital signal (coax) and out to the Ref One. Bits is bits, right? Optical 0's and 1's will be converted to electrical 0's and 1's. If only I believed it were that easy, I know the conversion and strength of the signal has to do with the wallwart that comes with the converter and other factors come into play. And would any self respecting head-fi'er use this gear to hookup to a Ref One and some LCD-2s?
   
  On the other hand is the Digital Interface. It would be nice to match up components and have Audio-GD interface hooked up to one of their DACs. But then you read about the evils of USB as an interconnect. From what I've read, I think the Digital Interface will do a splendid job converting a USB signal, it mitigates a lot of the problems inherent to USB like jitter, clock, etc. I fear that USB will sound flatter. I was considering buying the Version B of the DI with the upgraded TXCO clock and the PSU. Since it's 4th of July with the 5% off, all this comes out to about $281 shipped to my doorstep. While I think the Digital Interface with a power supply unit would do a fantastic job supplying the signal to the Ref One, I honestly don't know which connection would be better.
   
  Any thoughts or opinions you would have would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## haloxt

USB would most likely be better than optical with the DI, and a tossup if you use a good glass toslink cable $25-50. Monoprice makes great products for the price, but this particular converter wasn't meant for high end audio. It'd probably sound fine though, just not as good as a DI.


----------



## log0

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> USB would most likely be better than optical with the DI, and a tossup if you use a good glass toslink cable $25-50. Monoprice makes great products for the price, but this particular converter wasn't meant for high end audio. It'd probably sound fine though, just not as good as a DI.


 


  Thanks for your post. Do you put any stock into high end USB cables? Nothing like the fabled $800 cable but perhaps the Furutech GT2?
  And what if I choose another converter besides the monoprice one? Like the one listed below from M-Audio?
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/CO2.html


----------



## haloxt

With that product you're paying for features you don't need. Multiple inputs and outputs and bidirectionality may be useful in a studio but not in most audiophile setups. Some studio soundcards do have pretty reasonable prices due to mass production, and also have decent or even good digital outputs, but I don't have enough experience to know which is most suitable. If you are going to choose between the m-audio and monoprice ones, I'd definitely suggest monoprice. Something to keep in mind, manufacturers are making a lot of new products for digital output right now, and maybe it's best to just wait and see. Given the popularity of the DI, I wouldn't be surprised if audio-gd releases another rreclocker in the next 6 months.


----------



## ninjikiran

Not a bad idea if you say, have a coax device but only an optical input or vice versa a game console, but a dac with only a coax input.


----------



## log0

Quote: 





ninjikiran said:


> Not a bad idea if you say, have a coax device but only an optical input or vice versa a game console, but a dac with only a coax input.


 

 Yes that seems to be what most of the reviewers on monoprice used it for. I've also considered the Halide Bridge you have for sale too, but I can't said that I've read many reviews or that it seems as popular as the DI.


----------



## j2kei

has anyone compared the DI to the optical out on macbook pros?


----------



## log0

Quote: 





j2kei said:


> has anyone compared the DI to the optical out on macbook pros?


 

 I'd love to know that too. I've searched a couple threads but haven't found any direct comparisons.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





log0 said:


> I'd love to know that too. I've searched a couple threads but haven't found any direct comparisons.


 
  I searched this thread for Macbook Pro and found numerous comparisons. The DI is better.


----------



## uelover

I have had Monoprice and Van Den Hul Optocoupler toslink cable running out from my macbook pro before, with the former sounding muddy and the latter, while highly detailed, sounding thin.
   
  The DI, however, gives a very full, balanced and smooth sound.
   
  A good toslink cable has the edge over clarity but having the DI makes listening to music more enjoyable..
   
  Hope that helps.


----------



## Currawong

Optical digital connections can't even, most of the time, produce a proper square wave.  Definitely go with the DI or a good converter IMO.


----------



## Denys

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> I searched this thread for Macbook Pro and found numerous comparisons. The DI is better.


 

 I second that....The difference was audible enough for me to order a second DI to use in my bedroom where before I used only the optical output.
   
  Denys


----------



## achl354

any suggestions for my current set up
   
  using PCI EMU 1212M connecting spdif to my Calyx DAC
  so will using USB connection to this Audio GD DI then spdif out to Calyx DAC be providing better SQ?
   
  i see there is also the spdif in on the GD DI, so how abt PC -SPDIF-> GD DI -> DAC?


----------



## macrog

Why wouldn't you take USB direct from your PC to the USB input on the Calyx DAC? I had heard it has a rather good asynchronous USB implementation.
   
  I would avoid PC SPDIF like the plague
   
  Regards
   
  Macrog
   
  Quote: 





achl354 said:


> any suggestions for my current set up
> 
> using PCI EMU 1212M connecting spdif to my Calyx DAC
> so will using USB connection to this Audio GD DI then spdif out to Calyx DAC be providing better SQ?
> ...


----------



## kr0gg

E-mu 1212m is a pretty nice spdif source. it is.
  i'm not sure if DI is actually better.


----------



## achl354

since i got some better-than-average coaxial cables, i dont want to waste them
   
  and i did some a/b with usb and spdif, seem to prefer the spdif output better, could be due to the bad quality of my usb cable
   
  i also asked the guys from Yulong audio (not sure if you've heard of this brand), he suggested the 1212m to me, so i bought the 1212m card =)

  
  Quote: 





macrog said:


> Why wouldn't you take USB direct from your PC to the USB input on the Calyx DAC? I had heard it has a rather good asynchronous USB implementation.
> 
> I would avoid PC SPDIF like the plague
> 
> ...


----------



## attenuated 3db

Just got my Digital Interface today, and don't have much to say about it other than I am quite pleased.  I couldn't afford the Audio-gd PSU and extra shipping cost at the moment, so I'm using a Jameco "wall-wart":
   
http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_283573_-1
   
  ... and it sounds very, very good compared to the Teralink X2 interface that the DI replaced.  It uses the same Teradak drivers I had installed for the X2 (same Tenor chip), so didn't require any software changes.  Maybe someday I'll get the upgrade clock (haven't explored upsampling yet) or the class-A Audio-gd power supply, but for the moment, I proclaim myself officially "finished" with my main system in its present form.  it sounds very good to my ears, and my bank balance thanks me for the expression of future restraint....


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





attenuated 3db said:


> Just got my Digital Interface today, and don't have much to say about it other than I am quite pleased.  I couldn't afford the Audio-gd PSU and extra shipping cost at the moment, so I'm using a Jameco "wall-wart":
> 
> http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_283573_-1
> 
> ... and it sounds very, very good compared to the Teralink X2 interface that the DI replaced.  It uses the same Teradak drivers I had installed for the X2 (same Tenor chip), so didn't require any software changes.  Maybe someday I'll get the upgrade clock (haven't explored upsampling yet) or the class-A Audio-gd power supply, but for the moment, I proclaim myself officially "finished" with my main system in its present form.  it sounds very good to my ears, and my bank balance thanks me for the expression of future restraint....


 
   
  Hey J. Did the DI really improve the SQ that much? Is it a big step up or is it just a little improvement?


----------



## attenuated 3db

Quote:


ultrainferno said:


> Hey J. Did the DI really improve the SQ that much? Is it a big step up or is it just a little improvement?


 

 The Digital Interface (with the Jameco wall-wart power supply) is as big (or bigger) an improvement over the Teralink X2 as that unit was over going directly into the USB input of my NFB-3 or its predecessor, the Maverick D1.  Hey, I'm offering to ship the Teralink X2 worldwide....


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Hey J. Did the DI really improve the SQ that much? Is it a big step up or is it just a little improvement?


 


 I would say that it is system specific.
   
  I tried comparing the coaxial input via DI + PSU against the stock USB input of Maverick D1 on a good hi-fi system running a 5k tube pre-amp as well as other high-end components. Don't hear any noticeable difference to justify the DI.
   
  On my previous desktop rig with StageDAC, the improvement is there but not as exaggerated.
   
  Then again, depends on how good the USB implementation on your DAC is also. Audio-GD's DAC line-up seems to benefit from the DI.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





attenuated 3db said:


> Just got my Digital Interface today, and don't have much to say about it other than I am quite pleased.  I couldn't afford the Audio-gd PSU and extra shipping cost at the moment, so I'm using a Jameco "wall-wart":
> 
> http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_283573_-1
> 
> ... and it sounds very, very good compared to the Teralink X2 interface that the DI replaced.  It uses the same Teradak drivers I had installed for the X2 (same Tenor chip), so didn't require any software changes.  Maybe someday I'll get the upgrade clock (haven't explored upsampling yet) or the class-A Audio-gd power supply, but for the moment, I proclaim myself officially "finished" with my main system in its present form.  it sounds very good to my ears, and my bank balance thanks me for the expression of future restraint....


 

 You should uninstall those Teralink X2 drivers and use the windows one... users have said they're mediocre for the DI.


----------



## attenuated 3db

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> You should uninstall those Teralink X2 drivers and use the windows one... users have said they're mediocre for the DI.


 

 OK, will give that a try.  I was just pleased with how good it sounded with no software changes that I was content to accept the status quo.  I'll see what difference I can detect with Windows drivers.  Is it just the standard Win 7 SP 1 USB audio device driver?


----------



## somestranger26

Yeah. When you uninstall the teralink ones they should automatically install after rebooting your computer. Make sure you're using WASAPI output for best sound quality. There's one driver that apparently sounds better than the windows default (which apparently improved with SP1) and supports ASIO but you've got to pay around $50 for it.


----------



## attenuated 3db

Quote:


somestranger26 said:


> Yeah. When you uninstall the teralink ones they should automatically install after rebooting your computer. Make sure you're using WASAPI output for best sound quality. There's one driver that apparently sounds better than the windows default (which apparently improved with SP1) and supports ASIO but you've got to pay around $50 for it.


 
   
  OK, I uninstalled the Teralink drivers, rebooted and Windows indentifies a "Tenor TE7022 Audio w/SPDIF" device and installs the driver for it.  It's really hard to A-B drivers, especially since I have had the DI for all of about six hours now.  Maybe the Windows driver sounds better, but it at least sounds as good as the Teralink driver.  More importantly, it just works. I am always reluctant to tamper with OS software when things are working.  Out of curiosity, what is the $50 driver you referred to?  Is there a link to it you can share?
   
  On a completely unrelated note, I wanted to share an observation about the DI that I don't recall reading in this thread since I've been subscribed to it.  The FLACs I've ripped from CD and the few hi-res albums I've purchased from HDtracks sound better playing in Foobar2K through the DI than they did through the Teralink. I expected that, or I wouldn't have upgraded.  What I am surprised by is that streaming audio - even YouTube videos - sounds substantially better going through the DI than they did before.  Is this the digital signal processing at work, even though I am not upsampling?  I listen to a lot of Sirius Internet radio, and the sound quality generally sucks, even with the extra $3/month extra I pay for "near-CD quality" which is advertised as 128kbps, but I suspect is lower than that.   But even Sirius sounds better through the DI.  I have to say that this is an unexpected (and welcome) surprise.   Has anybody else experienced this subjective phenomenon, and does it make any sense at a scientific level?  And if it just a placebo effect, please do not burst my bubble.  I _think_ that streaming audio sources sound better with the the DI, and I want to keep on believing it....


----------



## ninjikiran

I am done with USB devices, went back to a PCI card with the ESI Juli@ and it works even better .


----------



## attenuated 3db

Quote:


ninjikiran said:


> I am done with USB devices, went back to a PCI card with the ESI Juli@ and it works even better .


 

 I saw that you had sold your Halide Bridge transport, but does this mean you don't use your NFB-2 any more?  Having only laptop/netbook computers, internal sound cards of any kind were never an option I could consider.


----------



## ninjikiran

I use the spdif output on the Juli@.  It supports all output formats and is a pure spdif signal.


----------



## drez

i wonder if the digital output on my old Essence STX is broken (bad opamp on adapters has fried something in the analogue output)
   
  would truly be surprised if rca digital out of a soundcard can beat all this audiophool gear I am using (75 ohm bnc coax, audiophool usb cable etc)
   
  I'll get back to you on that one.


----------



## ninjikiran

The stx is limited though by sample rate, unlike the julia.  If Spdif output is all you care about. Sound is clean, just as much detailed, and has sample rate display.  Even with its own breakout cable for spdif.
  Quote: 





drez said:


> i wonder if the digital output on my old Essence STX is broken (bad opamp on adapters has fried something in the analogue output)
> 
> would truly be surprised if rca digital out of a soundcard can beat all this audiophool gear I am using (75 ohm bnc coax, audiophool usb cable etc)
> 
> I'll get back to you on that one.


----------



## drez

I'm not familiar with this "limited through sample rate" issue can you elaborate?


----------



## ninjikiran

digital output doesnt support 88.2khz.


----------



## drez

Oh that one.  Neither do any TE7022 usb divices.  This is a bit of a limitation, but only if you have 88.2 music or want to upsample to 88.2.  I would be personally more concerned with the clock precision (STX is good but not great) and toslink output voltage, socket impedance etc - but that's because I have no high res and prefer not to upsample.


----------



## donluca

Alright guys, I'm coming straight from the NFB-2 thread to share my new experience with Audio-GD.
   
  I've decided to pull the trigger on the DI+PSU and ordered it on the first days of July.
  I've ordered it with the Nover caps as it seems that they offer a more detailed and revealing sound.
   
  I'm waiting for it to be shipped, cannot wait.


----------



## kr0gg

uhm.. "with Nover caps"?
  what do you mean?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





donluca said:


> Alright guys, I'm coming straight from the NFB-2 thread to share my new experience with Audio-GD.
> 
> I've decided to pull the trigger on the DI+PSU and ordered it on the first days of July.
> I've ordered it with the Nover caps as it seems that they offer a more detailed and revealing sound.
> ...


 


  FYI - The NoVer caps are standard issue for all A-gd gear....they are electrolytic polarized types whereas the Solen MKP caps are non polarized film types (metal film IIRC). They are two different types of caps that are "standard" parts in the A-gd line up. The Solen MKPs are fair to good film types but I find better results can be had with NOS PIO (like Russian K40's) but it's a minor upgrade that has more to do with personal taste than changing the voicing outright. The NoVer caps are above average electrolytic types that can also be bettered with the likes of Nichicon KG/FG or Mundorf AG M'Lytic (provided the replacement part of choice will fit inside the space provided). The better quality caps are almost always larger in diameter and length making certain units in the A-gd line up off limits to such changes due to space/clearance issues. In the case of the DI there is not enough space to replace the NoVer caps but the Solen MKP film cap can be changed rather easily. For the DI however that change would yield a very slight improvement and it may not be worth spending money on an expensive film cap...I'd stick with a cheap NOS PIO for this device if one is inclined to experiment a little.
   
  Peete.


----------



## haloxt

I just got the vanguard 0.3ppm tcxo clock. It works even though it says 5v, and audio-gd reclockers use 3.3v. First hour of listening, it seems to be more scattered than I recall the 1ppm tcxo being when new, decays seem more forward and defined than neutral. Since I damaged the legs on the 1ppm tcxo maybe I won't be able to do a real comparison, unless I manage to get the legs back on . Kingwa told me the 5v clock would probably work with 3.3v but may not be ideal, just fyi if you were considering this clock.


----------



## donluca

Quote: 





pricklely peete said:


> FYI - The NoVer caps are standard issue for all A-gd gear....they are electrolytic polarized types whereas the Solen MKP caps are non polarized film types (metal film IIRC). They are two different types of caps that are "standard" parts in the A-gd line up. The Solen MKPs are fair to good film types but I find better results can be had with NOS PIO (like Russian K40's) but it's a minor upgrade that has more to do with personal taste than changing the voicing outright. The NoVer caps are above average electrolytic types that can also be bettered with the likes of Nichicon KG/FG or Mundorf AG M'Lytic (provided the replacement part of choice will fit inside the space provided). The better quality caps are almost always larger in diameter and length making certain units in the A-gd line up off limits to such changes due to space/clearance issues. In the case of the DI there is not enough space to replace the NoVer caps but the Solen MKP film cap can be changed rather easily. For the DI however that change would yield a very slight improvement and it may not be worth spending money on an expensive film cap...I'd stick with a cheap NOS PIO for this device if one is inclined to experiment a little.
> 
> Peete.


 


  The upgrade from Solen to Nover was free... so why not?


----------



## sfogar

Hi,
   
  I'm having A LOT of dropouts with my Audio GD Digital interface on OS X (using an external power adapter).
   
  This either on a PB G4 1.67 with 10.5.8 and on a MacBook Pro 13 early 2011 with 10.6.8 with every audio application I used (VLC, iTunes, etc.)
   
  Tried changing USB cable, usb ports, SPDIF cables, working without external power adapter to no avail.
   
  Any suggestion, please ?
   
  All the best
   
  AF


----------



## Eunegis

Hi,
   
  thats probably more related to sampling rates and buffering.
  I suggest you try to play with buffer amounts, where sometimes less buffering time can be advantageous! Start at 50 or 100 ms and work your way up to 500-1000 ms. Try it with different sample rates, too.
  The DI itself is out of the question, I would say. I haven't had a single dropout ever, even with ASIO4ALL.


----------



## donluca

Quote: 





sfogar said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm having A LOT of dropouts with my Audio GD Digital interface on OS X (using an external power adapter).


 

  
  What do you mean by "dropouts"?


----------



## sfogar

Quote: 





donluca said:


> What do you mean by "dropouts"?


 

 Well, I mean short interruptions of sound , about 1/2 seconds, randomly.
   
  All the best
   
  AF


----------



## drez

what is the frequency of the dropouts?


----------



## sfogar

Hi,
   
  the frequency of dropouts is random.
   
  But let's say about one every 3 min., sometimes more and sometimes less frequent (from one every 30 sec. to one every 20 min.).
   
  I've read in the meantime that 10.6.8 have an audio related problem but this also happens on 10.5.8 on a different Mac.
   
  I've tried also with Audirvana which loads the entire song into ram but, alas, no difference at all.
   
  Many thanks
   
  All the best
   
  AF


----------



## kr0gg

as advised, try  playing with buffer size.
  as i remember in DI's case it is better to set the lowest possible size.


----------



## drez

I still get the same problem occasionally.  I am doing my best to find cause, but due to my limited technical knowledge progress is slow.  Currently the main thing I suspect is DCP latency spikes caused either by wireless network or other causes.  Windows really isn't a trouble free OS to use for critical audio purposes.  Sound engineers AFAIK often use Linux or MAC.  There are various guides out there, not all of them useful, concerning optimising windows for realtime audio.  
   
  If you are getting impatient, a quick fix seems to be to turn on upsampling - it greatly reduces the noticability of the dropouts.
   
  EDIT: Ignore everything except the part about oversampling


----------



## uelover

I don't think that it is possible to set buffer size for audio on mac.
   
  Maybe can email Kingwa for advice.


----------



## ohhgourami

I had the same dropout issues when I changed my buffer size to 50ms.  I set it back to the default 1000ms on foobar and the problem mostly went away.  If it is the slow the better using the DI, I just might as well set it at an even higher value.
   
  Sorry can't help you with your mac issue as I run windows


----------



## ohhgourami

I found out how to fix it!!!  Unplug your DI and turn off your DAC.  Uninstall the driver for your DAC and plug the DI back in to install the DI's driver.  Turn you DAC back on and it should fix it.  I just did this and it seems to have worked!!!


----------



## drez

Interesting - so you think it seems to be some kind of charge building up, maybe some kind of ground loop issue?


----------



## ohhgourami

Not sure as I don't know my circuits well but it could some kind of charge build up or kind of an interference issue.  Since the computer is trying to send the signal directly to my DAC instead of the DI so the signal was out of sync somehow?  I'm just happy it works for now.  My engineering-ness makes me curious for the truth though!!!  Someone please provide some insight!


----------



## kr0gg

DI behaves really mysterious sometimes. especially when plugging/unplugging it.


----------



## ohhgourami

Yes definitely!  I noticed a channel imbalance one time and freaked out!  I thought my HE-6 broke hahaha.  Restarted the thing and replugged it and fixed it.


----------



## sfogar

Well, a little update...
   
  Tried also on Windows7 freshly installed with (but even without) Fidelizer 2.0 + J River MEdia Center + Wasapi Event Style.
   
  Same results...
   

   
  Emailed Kingwa for advice.
   
  All the best
   
  AF


----------



## ohhgourami

Just to clarify, make sure you install the driver to your DI _BEFORE _hooking it up to your DAC.


----------



## svyr

sfogar said:


> Well, a little update...
> 
> Tried also on Windows7 freshly installed with (but even without) Fidelizer 2.0 + J River MEdia Center + Wasapi Event Style.
> 
> ...




have a look at the fidelizer thread. 2.0 definitely screws things up when you tell it to adjust affinities.


----------



## sfogar

Hi,
   
  ok, many thanks, I also tried before starting Fidelizer...
   
  All the best
   
  AF
  
  Quote: 





svyr said:


> have a look at the fidelizer thread. 2.0 definitely screws things up when you tell it to adjust affinities.


----------



## drez

anyone tried galvanic isolator.  I'm guessing that's the next step... unless it's a software problem...


----------



## svyr

drez said:


> anyone tried galvanic isolator.  I'm guessing that's the next step... unless it's a software problem...




lol, i can send you my one again now that you have an ext psu  and it's still not working on bulk mode devices


----------



## drez

cheers that would be much appreciated.  I must wire you some money for the postage this time.


----------



## kr0gg

galvanic isolator did a nice job in my case.
  i would really advice using one.


----------



## donluca

Before spending money on galvanic isolators... have you tried using different usb ports?
   
  That solved the problem for me with the NFB-2 USB input.
   
  Then I've bought the galvanic isolator just to make sure there were no ground loops and it improved the sound nicely.


----------



## sfogar

Hi,
   
  yes, I tried on either the Usb ports in my MacBook Pro 13 or Powerbook G4 1.67.
   
  Same results.
   
  Instead an Echo AF4 works without any dropouts in either macs (but it's firewire, not usb).
   

   
  I'll try this evening connecting to another Dac (mine is based on a Buffalo II Dac - Sabre ES9018) or using another cheap USB->SPDIF converter to understand something more.
   
  Many thanks
   
  All the best
   
  AF
  
  Quote: 





donluca said:


> Before spending money on galvanic isolators... have you tried using different usb ports?
> 
> That solved the problem for me with the NFB-2 USB input.
> 
> Then I've bought the galvanic isolator just to make sure there were no ground loops and it improved the sound nicely.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





donluca said:


> The upgrade from Solen to Nover was free... so why not?


 

 I think you must have misunderstood my post....the units come standard with Solen MKP film caps AND NoVer electrolytic.
   
  Peete.


----------



## attenuated 3db

Quote:


pricklely peete said:


> FYI - The NoVer caps are standard issue for all A-gd gear....they are electrolytic polarized types whereas the Solen MKP caps are non polarized film types (metal film IIRC). They are two different types of caps that are "standard" parts in the A-gd line up. The Solen MKPs are fair to good film types but I find better results can be had with NOS PIO (like Russian K40's) but it's a minor upgrade that has more to do with personal taste than changing the voicing outright. The NoVer caps are above average electrolytic types that can also be bettered with the likes of Nichicon KG/FG or Mundorf AG M'Lytic (provided the replacement part of choice will fit inside the space provided). The better quality caps are almost always larger in diameter and length making certain units in the A-gd line up off limits to such changes due to space/clearance issues. In the case of the DI there is not enough space to replace the NoVer caps but the Solen MKP film cap can be changed rather easily. For the DI however that change would yield a very slight improvement and it may not be worth spending money on an expensive film cap...I'd stick with a cheap NOS PIO for this device if one is inclined to experiment a little.
> 
> Peete.


 


  I was reading project86's review of the Anedio D1 DAC (not that I could ever afford one; I just enjoy his writing), and came across this passage that resonated with me:
   
_...  In case you were curious why there is not a bunch of big fancy “audiophile type” capacitors on display inside the case, James of Anedio had this to say:_

_ _

_“Regarding the capacitors in high-end audio, I find many bizarre theories floating around. I believe only what there is scientific evidence for._

_ _

_There are roughly 150 capacitors in the D1 DAC. All the capacitors are surface-mount devices (SMD) for low inductance. Many of them are tiny, so that’s probably why you didn’t notice that many. Obviously, the number of capacitors has nothing to do with sonic performance. What is important is using the right type of capacitor in the right place, especially paying attention to the current return paths._

_ _

_I use the highest quality capacitors that do the job for the particular place in the circuit. This includes high-reliability, low ESR (equivalent series resistance) capacitors for the supplies, low-inductance capacitors for critical supply nodes, polyphenylene sulphide (PPS) film capacitors for low dielectric absorption in the signal paths, etc._

_Also, for the signal path in general, I believe less is more. So I tend to use the fewest number of capacitors that do the job in the signal path.” ..._

   
  Excerpted from: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/528473/review-anedio-d1-dac-my-new-reference-dac
   
  Certainly the dialectric and tolerance of some capacitors matters more than others.  I used to rebuild Dahlquist DQ-10 speakers from scratch, and building a passive crossover network for a five-way speaker that aimed at phase coherence uses a lot of capacitors, and the differences between different types was clearly audible in many circumstances.  But I got my Audio-gd DI with whatever "off the shelf" capacitors Kingwa uses as standard equipment, and am quite happy with it.


----------



## donluca

Quote: 





sfogar said:


> Hi,
> 
> yes, I tried on either the Usb ports in my MacBook Pro 13 or Powerbook G4 1.67.
> 
> ...


 

 Have you tried it running only on battery?
  And have you tried running purely on AC, without the battery inserted? (can't remember if you can take the battery out in the macbook/powerbook).
   
  You may also want to try clearing your kextcache and repair permission of your drive.
   
  Quote: 





pricklely peete said:


> I think you must have misunderstood my post....the units come standard with Solen MKP film caps AND NoVer electrolytic.
> 
> Peete.


 

  
  I misinterpreted what's written on the website, sorry
   
   
  Quote: 





> Uses all audiophile grade components, including DALE resistors, WIMA & SOLEN caps (German brand), custom order NOVER (UK brand) caps.


 
   
  custom order here doesn't mean that it's a built to order option, but they are using custom nover caps in it.


----------



## drez

I may be speaking too soon but changing processor scheduling to "maximum performance for background tasks" seems to have fixed the issue I was having (with audio dropouts) while running autocad... for now...


----------



## svyr

drez said:


> I may be speaking too soon but changing processor scheduling to "maximum performance for background tasks" seems to have fixed the issue I was having (with audio dropouts) while running autocad... for now...




 that's meant to be one of the first things to set when intending to use the windows PC for audio, but IDK how much it helps in your specific case either (at least it's theoretically sound).


----------



## drez

Quote: 





svyr said:


> that's meant to be one of the first things to set when intending to use the windows PC for audio, but IDK how much it helps in your specific case either (at least it's theoretically sound).


 


  Seems to be holding up - at least we know this is a good setting to use whether tor not it solves any particular issue
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Any recommendations for program buffer size/ number of buffers?


----------



## ohhgourami

How do you set your processor to maximize background task?


----------



## svyr

ohhgourami said:


> How do you set your processor to maximize background task?




Right click on my computer/go to properties->advanced->performance settings-> advanced - change the processor scheduling settings.

>Any recommendations for program buffer size/ number of buffers

not really. If you're talking about the music player buffer I set it to about 10mb, and that's generally enough for a few seconds/doesn't take long to load from disk so songs skip fairly quickly.


----------



## drez

problem persists - can be sorted by removing and reinserting usb cord.  Sounds like I might be needing that isolator...  Unless its some other unforseen software issue (buffer underrun?? mebe???
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## sfogar

Drez,
   
  we have (I think) a similar dac, based on a Sabre chip.
   
  As I've read it's particulary sensible to the quality of the spdif stream.
   
  Mine is based on a Buffalo II Dac and I'm currently looking for a workaround...
   
  All the best
   
  AF


----------



## borrego

I used to use foobar as my primary player with the DI. I tried all possible Windows 7 settings and the best I could do was reducing the dropouts, but could never get rid of it.
   
  Then I switched to J. River Media Center 16 and WASAPI Event Style output. No more dropout since then.


----------



## sfogar

Hi,
   
  for me this did not work...
   
  All the best
   
  AF
  
  Quote: 





borrego said:


> I used to use foobar as my primary player with the DI. I tried all possible Windows 7 settings and the best I could do was reducing the dropouts, but could never get rid of it.
> 
> Then I switched to J. River Media Center 16 and WASAPI Event Style output. No more dropout.


----------



## punk_guy182

Does anyone have a link to manually install the driver for the DI?
  Since my computer was shut down due to power outage, I have problems accessing my device manager and Windows can't automatically install the driver or identify the problem.


----------



## Baird GoW

Quote: 





donluca said:


> Before spending money on galvanic isolators... have you tried using different usb ports?


 


  I have one and even if it doesn't solve dropouts you should get one... It drastically increases SQ. so far ive beefed up my DI with a PSU, new hex inverter, furutech gt2 usb cable, and a isolator. All i have to say is that it doesn't sound ANYTHING like it use to (for the good)...


----------



## donluca

Do you mind explaining what a "hex inverter" is and how does it work?
   
  Thanks


----------



## Nada

having drop outs seems really annoying
   
  I wonder if there is a problem solving guide?
   
  Can you try a different laptop/OS/USB cable to see if its a problem with the computer source or the DI?
   
  I use Foobar on a Samsung notebook with no dropouts. I use WASAPI on Foobar and set the buffer at about 100 (too high or too low are a problem). Win7 needs to run in exclusive mode. Turn off screen saver etc.
   
  Hope you solve it easily...


----------



## Sganzerla

Quote:  





> I have one and even if it doesn't solve dropouts you should get one... It drastically increases SQ. so far ive beefed up my DI with a PSU, new hex inverter, furutech gt2 usb cable, and a isolator. All i have to say is that it doesn't sound ANYTHING like it use to (for the good)...


 

  This is exactly what is coming to me, except the hex inverter - I'm using the TCXO upgrade clock from Audio-GD. Have you tried doubling the USB cable, using one before and one after the Isolator, to see if the system benefits from it?
   
   I'm using a PS Audio AC3 power cable to my DI and it sound improved imensely, by the way, as I said before here.


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





sganzerla said:


> I'm using a PS Audio AC3 power cable to my DI and it sound improved imensely, by the way, as I said before here.


 


  uhm. really?
  (yeah, i experienced power cable influence on DACs and amps, but on usb/spdif converters?)


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> uhm. really?  (yeah, i experienced power cable influence on DACs and amps, but on usb/spdif converters?)


 
   
  I'm pretty skeptical too. I can't even tell a difference plugging it into my filter.


----------



## flu_fighter

For those of you having drop-outs, you can try the following guide. For me, switching from best appearance to best performance on my windows 7 set-up did the trick. In fact, it kinda made the sound much better, at least to my ears anyway.
   
  However, my windows 7 looks like crap now. lol.
   
  Try most of the tips that is set out in the guide, not all. I wouldn't risk turning off my anti-virus program or my firewall.
   
http://serato.com/articles/scratchlive/1927/computer-optimization-guide-for-windows-users/page/1


----------



## svyr

lol heh. thats one of the first things i do (another tab in where you set the cpu scheduler favouring bg svcs vs processes)... at the end of the day on aero themes might offload some work to the gfx card. but still, i don't quite understand why people care what their taskbar or window top looks like (that delicious win95 look lol)


----------



## drez

At this point I'm pretty sure this is some kind of fault with a particular batch of DI.  I ordered mine back in April.  Please confirm the date you purchased you DI and its functionality.  At this point we can rule out 1) the music software 2) the OS 3) any other issues independent of the DI hardware.  Not happy.


----------



## flu_fighter

Quote: 





drez said:


> At this point I'm pretty sure this is some kind of fault with a particular batch of DI.  I ordered mine back in April.  Please confirm the date you purchased you DI and its functionality.  At this point we can rule out 1) the music software 2) the OS 3) any other issues independent of the DI hardware.  Not happy.


 

 I'm pretty sure it is the OS, I have had the DI probably around the last quarter of last year. It is only when I switched over to a new pc with windows 7 as the OS that the dropouts were frequent.
   
  I was previously using Windows XP.


----------



## drez

tried your appearance settings.  It ugly.


----------



## flu_fighter

Quote: 





drez said:


> tried your appearance settings.  It ugly.


 


  I did say it made Windows 7 look crap. Everything looks stark and bleak. lol.
   
  But I happened to switch the settings while I was playing music, the sound became more pronounced when I switched the settings.


----------



## drez

Dropouts haven't returned.  This is a big price to pay 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 lol


----------



## flu_fighter

Quote: 





drez said:


> Dropouts haven't returned.  This is a big price to pay
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Actually, at that tab where you switched to set windows for best performance, you try out a custom setting, maybe tick some of the appearance options to make it look more pleasing. Just tick one or two and see if the dropouts come back. I'm currently using a custom setting with just 2 or 3 of the options checked.


----------



## drez

Thanks flu_fighter I will try that when my rage from dropouts subsides subsides lol


----------



## sfogar

Quote: 





drez said:


> At this point I'm pretty sure this is some kind of fault with a particular batch of DI.  I ordered mine back in April.  Please confirm the date you purchased you DI and its functionality.  At this point we can rule out 1) the music software 2) the OS 3) any other issues independent of the DI hardware.  Not happy.


 

 Drez,
   
  have you read what I said before ?
   
  I think this has to do with the Sabre chip inside your Dac as in mine...
   
  But if you managed to resolve changing Win7 appareance, well, better...
   
  Let's say that the Sabre chip makes the dropout more probable.
   
  All the best
   
  AF


----------



## kr0gg

i've got PC with 3gb ram and an intel e5200 oc'd to 3,5ghz with and ATI 4870 videcard and usually have dropouts when my computer runs any programs (mozilla firefox, 3d games,etc) i.e. not working just as a media player.
  i thought it is supposed to behave this way.


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> i've got PC with 3gb ram and an intel e5200 oc'd to 3,5ghz with and ATI 4870 videcard and usually have dropouts when my computer runs any programs (mozilla firefox, 3d games,etc) i.e. not working just as a media player.
> i thought it is supposed to behave this way.


 

 It's funny...I'm using a cheap Alix board with Linux with MPD: no droputs  
  Streaming music does not need a massive pc like that...I suggest you to use a different OS.


----------



## Gilst

Overclocking is great, but it might not be the best idea if you seek maximum audio quality from your computer.
   
  When you accelerate your processor (in your case - 30%), you most likely raise the voltage, and then you need more cooling, etc
  and at the end you put a lot of strain on your power supply, memory controller, north/south/middle-earth bridges, other controllers,
  which at the end affect the performance and more important - stability of USB and PCI/PCI-E busses, which transfer audio signals.
   
  Overclocking was one of my hobbies, and I remember having a perfectly stable system which passed every possible stress test,
  nevertheless a TV PCI card would hiccup unless I run stock. You can never completely determine the influence of running out-of-spec on the system.
   
  Bottom line - Overclocking can cause more jitter, more apparent ripple/noise from PSU, hiccups and drop-outs in audio stream caused by error correction. 
   
  Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> i've got PC with 3gb ram and an intel e5200 oc'd to 3,5ghz with and ATI 4870 videcard and usually have dropouts when my computer runs any programs (mozilla firefox, 3d games,etc) i.e. not working just as a media player.
> i thought it is supposed to behave this way.


----------



## kr0gg

i agree.
  but i prefer wasting money on audio, so getting a $50 CPU in order to make it perform (almost) as a $200 one gives me $150.
  and i need at least some performance, 'cuz i play a lot.


----------



## donluca

Quote: 





realmassy said:


> It's funny...I'm using a cheap Alix board with Linux with MPD: no droputs
> Streaming music does not need a massive pc like that...I suggest you to use a different OS.


 


  In b4 the OS war flame.
   
  (j/k)


----------



## drez

changed to minimum appearance settings and still dropouts.  I had similar issues with wasapi on my essence ST (but not as a transport).  I think I might still have some DCP latency issues, but this will drive me insane.  Asynch transport is tempting me....


----------



## flu_fighter

Quote: 





drez said:


> changed to minimum appearance settings and still dropouts.  I had similar issues with wasapi on my essence ST (but not as a transport).  I think I might still have some DCP latency issues, but this will drive me insane.  Asynch transport is tempting me....


 

 Did you disable your bluetooth devices on your pc?


----------



## drez

Done that - adapter and drivers/software disabled.  The gremlin hunt continues.  My house has power gremlins - so I might try going back to USB power (computer PSU has DC voltage regulation so in this case it beats unregulated wall power)


----------



## drez

As a sidenote I tried running the USB receiver without USB power - doesn't seem to be stable running this way.  Just in case anyone feels compelled to hack up a USB cable lol.
   
  Seems I have my gremlins mostly sorted - pretty sure they reside within the PC hardware or OS side of things.  Now dropouts very rare (I just gutted the processes and services loading at startup to bare minimum)


----------



## Poetik

Just got mine with the power supply, it's a pretty cool device.  Seems to supply more power to my audio gd fun since it's louder when I switch from the usb to the digital interface.


----------



## ohhgourami

Yup....I'm getting issues again...even happens running off USB power.  For those of you with the PSU also, do you guys notice that your DC power cable is a bit loose?


----------



## Poetik

Quote: 





ohhgourami said:


> Yup....I'm getting issues again...even happens running off USB power.  For those of you with the PSU also, do you guys notice that your DC power cable is a bit loose?


 

 The power cable on my psu is actually pretty snug but the cable that connects the psu to the di is kinda loose.  It fits all the way in but you don't have to pull much to take it out.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





poetik said:


> The power cable on my psu is actually pretty snug but the cable that connects the psu to the di is kinda loose.  It fits all the way in but you don't have to pull much to take it out.


 


 ohhgourami is referring to his DC power cable which is the one connecting the DI to the PSU. The power cable would be AC and not DC.
   
  I have also experienced some degree of looseness in the DC connectors but since I don't move my DI at all, the issue don't really bother me.


----------



## ohhgourami

I guess this is how the DC cable is designed then...  I normally don't move my PSU either but once in awhile something will nudge it then I will have issues...quite annoying actually...


----------



## uelover

Don't think DC cable is designed this way. Certainly not for my other appliances that uses DC input.


----------



## donluca

Just got my DI+PSU today.
   
  Everything worked out of the box without issues.
   
  Both the DC cable and PSU cable to DI are quite tight, no looseness at all.
   
  It definitely helped with the jitter, now the sound is definitely more accurate, precise and transparent. Great buy all in all.
   
  Now I'm going to mod my NFB-2 to stick the BNC socket I got in it so  I can connect the DI with the BNC cable. It shuold give a slightly better improvement.
   
  In addition I ordered another cable to connect the power from the PSU to the DI, a thicker one and shielded... I don't trust much the cable that came with the DI and PSU.
   
   
  Anyway, both my PSU and DI get really really hot after a while... is it normal? I was planning on making some holes on the top to let air get in.


----------



## tim3320070

Don't poke holes in it. Hot is normal.


----------



## sfogar

Hi,
   
  after some research I think that expecially for those with Sabre Chip based dacs, an RF attenuator could help minimize the dropouts.
   
  http://www.minicircuits.com/products/attenuators_coax_fixed.html
   
  This assume you have a BNC cable.
   
  This because the DI outputs a TTL level SPDIF stream.
   
  See also here:
   
  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=9c4e0vt24aul7pof4vg0jprak79ed8sp&topic=90454.0
   
  I think 12 db should be sufficient.
   
  Any thoughts ?
   
  All the best
   
  AF


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





sfogar said:


> after some research I think that especially for those with Sabre Chip based dacs, an RF attenuator could help minimize the dropouts.


 

 I am using the DI with my NFB-1ES, and with a 6DB attenuator. It WON"T reduce the dropout.
   
  Adding the attenuator would increase the depth of the sound stage though.
   
  Not sure if the 12DB attenuator would be too much for the DI. I.e. -6DB would lower the 0.5V p-p signal to about 0.3V p-p, which is the lower limit of the SPDIF spec already.
   
  Since I switched to J. River Media from foobar, the dropout issue is more or less fixed. But it is for Windows user only.


----------



## sfogar

Hi,
   
  I'm assuming that the DI exits at TTL level (as Kingwa told me).
   
  My Dac is assuming the input is SPDIF consumer so I'd like to try to lower it...
   
  Am I right ? Did you mesure the level of the spdif out ?
   
  All the best
   
  AF
   
  Quote: 





borrego said:


> Not sure if the 12DB attenuator would be too much for the DI. I.e. -6DB would lower the 0.5V p-p signal to about 0.3V p-p, which is the lower limit of the SPDIF spec already.


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





sfogar said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm assuming that the DI exits at TTL level (as Kingwa told me).
> 
> ...


 


 I haven't done any measurement. But the stock 74HC04 SPDIF driver chip the DI uses IS NOT a TTL level output chip. If it is 74HCT04 then it is TTL output. Don't take Kingwa's comment for granted. It is also him who told me -6B would lower the output level to the lower threshold limit of SPDIF. If you have doubt, you can do the calculation yourself using the following formula:
   

   
  You can try a 12dB attenuator and see how it goes. But my experience with the 6dB attenuator told me it won't cure the drop out problem with my NFB-1ES with a Sabre chip. It shall lower the cable reflection though.
   
  My experience told me the dropout is almost 100% OS/player related.


----------



## bobeau

Guys,
   
  I was thinking about picking up one of these and am worried about the dropout issue.  I have no music to play in foobar, just streaming using MOG.  My PC is quite fast, dual quad-core 3.33ghz extreme from early last year (it's a machine built for software dev).  It is windows 7 though.
   
  Currently I'm using an old Ack! Dack! 2.0 which is driven by an even older Theta TLC, an early DI that converts toslink to coax.  So I want to replace the TLC in the chain, thinking this unit would be a significant improvement.  Thoughts?


----------



## somestranger26

Quote:


bobeau said:


> I was thinking about picking up one of these and am worried about the dropout issue.  I have no music to play in foobar, just streaming using MOG.  My PC is quite fast, dual quad-core 3.33ghz extreme from early last year (it's a machine built for software dev).  It is windows 7 though.
> 
> Currently I'm using an old Ack! Dack! 2.0 which is driven by an even older Theta TLC, an early DI that converts toslink to coax.  So I want to replace the TLC in the chain, thinking this unit would be a significant improvement.  Thoughts?


 

 I doubt you'll see very much improvement when you're streaming lossy music. Upgrading to the DI would not be worth the cost for the improvement you'll get, imo.
   
  PC speed doesn't even really affect the dropout rate. I'm running an AMD 6 core (3.2GHz) and I still get occasional dropouts.
   
  Quote: 





borrego said:


> I haven't done any measurement. But the stock 74HC04 SPDIF driver chip the DI uses IS NOT a TTL level output chip. If it is 74HCT04 then it is TTL output. Don't take Kingwa's comment for granted. It is also him who told me -6B would lower the output level to the lower threshold limit of SPDIF. If you have doubt, you can do the calculation yourself using the following formula:


 

 So then the 74VHC04 is also not TTL then since it doesn't have the T?
   
  Also, any idea if the attenuator idea would work for BNC too?


----------



## ohhgourami

I'm pretty sure the dropout issue is NOT a PC issue.  I use USB straight to my NFB-10ES usb version, there are no dropouts.  I only get dropouts when I am using my DI.  Seems obvious that the issue is from the DI.


----------



## donluca

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Quote:
> 
> I doubt you'll see very much improvement when you're streaming lossy music. Upgrading to the DI would not be worth the cost for the improvement you'll get, imo.
> 
> ...


 
   
  If you're using a true 75 ohm BNC cable I would discourage using an attenuator.
  
  Today I modded my NFB-2, replacing the RCA plug with the BNC and there was a HUGE improvement in sound, especially in depth.
   
  My opinion is that your dropout problems are related mainly to your OS and/or unstable current.
   
  Try another OS (even a live linux distro is fine to try) and try putting an UPS.


----------



## Sganzerla

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *donluca* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> In addition I ordered another cable to connect the power from the PSU to the DI, a thicker one and shielded... I don't trust much the cable that came with the DI and PSU.
> 
> ...


 
   
   I'd like to know which DC cable you bought and where, please.
   
   My DI get slight warm, but here in my country we are in the winter, and it rests on a marmore table.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Quote:
> 
> I doubt you'll see very much improvement when you're streaming lossy music. Upgrading to the DI would not be worth the cost for the improvement you'll get, imo.
> 
> PC speed doesn't even really affect the dropout rate. I'm running an AMD 6 core (3.2GHz) and I still get occasional dropouts.


 
   
  That's unfortunate to hear.  FWIW I had an Icon HDP hooked up for at least 100 hours of use using USB and not a single blip.  Not sure if that matters.
   
  RE: lossy music... but this is 320kbps.  It seems most have trouble distinguishing between 320 and lossless regardless of equipment (at least I haven't seen mention of any DBT showing otherwise), but people are claiming a good DI is a fairly dramatic improvement?  Just sounds like a blanket statement to me - don't get me wrong I could very well end up agreeing with you after testing a unit in my system, just wondering if this is substantiated anywhere else in this thread? (sorry, haven't read most of it... it is quite long  ).


----------



## Poetik

I don't think the DI is a bad investment for the cost.  It's a noticeable improvement on my audio GD fun which isn't even a highly revealing piece of gear.  If I had anything better than the FUN I'd definitely recommend it to anyone using a computer as their source.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> RE: lossy music... but this is 320kbps.  It seems most have trouble distinguishing between 320 and lossless regardless of equipment (at least I haven't seen mention of any DBT showing otherwise), but people are claiming a good DI is a fairly dramatic improvement?  Just sounds like a blanket statement to me - don't get me wrong I could very well end up agreeing with you after testing a unit in my system, just wondering if this is substantiated anywhere else in this thread? (sorry, haven't read most of it... it is quite long  ).


 
  If it's 320kbps maybe the DI will be worth it to you (or might reveal encoding artifacts). I can tell a slight difference between 320kbps mp3 (less is unlistenable) and lossless in my system; I think the "no difference between 320 and lossless" thing comes from mid-fiers.


----------



## uelover

I think the focus should be less on 320kbps vs lossless but more on the quality of the recording and mastering.
   
  A superb audiophile recording in 320kbps is really very good. Many popular music tracks, even in wav, are undesirable.


----------



## tim3320070

The DI improved my NFB12 but it was pretty subtle. IMO, it is not worth spending close to $200 on a converter for a $200 DAC/Amp...... at all. That money would be much better spent on better headphones should you be using lesser quality ones, or more music.
  I have the DI because I have higher end gear it sources.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





borrego said:


> I am using the DI with my NFB-1ES, and with a 6DB attenuator. It WON"T reduce the dropout.
> 
> Adding the attenuator would increase the depth of the sound stage though.
> 
> ...


 


  For those of us completely naive to EE can you explain this - is it undesirable to spec an attenuator with too high level of attenuation?
   
  Thanks
   
  drez


----------



## svyr

drez said:


> For those of us completely naive to EE can you explain this - is it undesirable to spec an attenuator with too high level of attenuation?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> drez




presumably, after a certain signal level (lower) the receiver chip will stop distinguishing between on/off. (or rather high/low). If it uniformly lowers the signal


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





drez said:


> For those of us completely naive to EE can you explain this - is it undesirable to spec an attenuator with too high level of attenuation?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> drez


 

 The Attenuator is just like a volume control lowering the signal strength. If you keep lowering the signal strength you will reach a point that the receiving end of the signal (i.e. DAC) can't detect it.
   
  Just think of you keep lowering the volume of your amplifier and you will reach a point you can't listen to any sound.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





borrego said:


> The Attenuator is just like a volume control lowering the signal strength. If you keep lowering the signal strength you will reach a point that the receiving end of the signal (i.e. DAC) can't detect it.
> 
> Just think of you keep lowering the volume of your amplifier and you will reach a point you can't listen to any sound.


 
  Thanks for explaining that - so does the DI have too high signal strength as it is?  (as per HiFace?)
   
  I almost ordered from that parts distributor but they wanted to charge me $100+ for shipping...  An australian distributer it will have to be.
   
  Anyway would this one be suitable?


----------



## bobeau

Thanks guys for the feedback.  Sounds like any improvement will be subtle.  I guess I'll just stick with what I have and save some $$... I'll be changing my source sometime in the next few months and it seems with improving USB implementations it may obviate the need for a good DI (ie. async USB w/ good filtering/jitter handling capabilities).   I'm not going away from internet streaming services - the quality is good enough and the ability to have 10M+ tracks at my immediate disposal is too much.  I've spent thousands on music in the past, not gonna continue to do it.
   
  FWIW, years back I did a FLAC vs 320kbs vs. 256 (vbs) and thought I could distinguish between 320 and 256 but it was very very subtle.  The 320 was only on a handful of tracks and I couldn't tell if it might be placebo or not.


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





drez said:


> Thanks for explaining that - so does the DI have too high signal strength as it is?  (as per HiFace?)
> 
> I almost ordered from that parts distributor but they wanted to charge me $100+ for shipping...  An australian distributer it will have to be.
> 
> Anyway would this one be suitable?


 

 I think it should work.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bobeau* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> I'll be changing my source sometime in the next few months and it seems with improving USB implementations it may obviate the need for a good DI (ie. async USB w/ good filtering/jitter handling capabilities).   I'm not going away from internet streaming services - the quality is good enough and the ability to have 10M+ tracks at my immediate disposal is too much.  I've spent thousands on music in the past, not gonna continue to do it.
> 
> FWIW, years back I did a FLAC vs 320kbs vs. 256 (vbs) and thought I could distinguish between 320 and 256 but it was very very subtle.  The 320 was only on a handful of tracks and I couldn't tell if it might be placebo or not.


 


 Yes, if you're upgrading your source I recommend the DI because it will bring it to its full potential.
   
  Please don't get stuck thinking that asynchronous > adaptive, because it always depends on the implementation. The DI is a very, very good implementation of adaptive that may match or exceed some asynchronous implementations. Example: The hiface is asynchronous USB, but the digital interface rolls all over it. A few tangible benefits of going asynchronous include the USB cable not mattering (as much?) and less/no dropouts but you're going to pay for it.
   
  I did some ABX with foobar between flac, 320, and 256 and yeah the 320 and flac are pretty close -- closer than I remember. 256 is definitely inadequate for a high end system though.


----------



## donluca

Quote: 





sganzerla said:


> I'd like to know which DC cable you bought and where, please.
> 
> My DI get slight warm, but here in my country we are in the winter, and it rests on a marmore table.


 

 Sorry for the late reply, I've been busy with university and exams and it's really killing me >_>
   
  I'm buying the cable that comes shipped with the teralink x-2 and PSU that IMHO is superior to the DI's one.
  Although I don't think that it will make a great improvement.
   
  http://cgi.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250846494890#ht_1422wt_821
   
  However it is quite cheap, it may be worth a try.


----------



## drez

hmm shame its not shielded and a little shorter maybe.  I might have to DIY one - but in this application silver is a total waste - its a low voltage dc cable...
   
  tried J.river media player - to me sounds a little darker/less bright than foobar 2k (both running WASAPI) but also less fatiguing.


----------



## donluca

You can always shield it yourself


----------



## haloxt

Aluminum foil is good for shielding, and grounding it would be even better. The greater distance from the conductors when you diy a foil shield vs having a shield inside the cable reduces the amount of emf reflected back to the conductors. Drawback is it's ugly and easily rips from handling .


----------



## Sganzerla

Ordered it.
   
   Now I have the USB Isolator too, and want to know if people are using it with the power supply. If so, which one?
   My Furutech GT2 have not reached my home yet.
   Overall I'm quite happy with the differences the Audio-GD DI brought to my system, let's see if it can be improved a little more after changing some cables...


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





sganzerla said:


> Now I have the USB Isolator too, and want to know if people are using it with the power supply. If so, which one?
> My Furutech GT2 have not reached my home yet.
> Overall I'm quite happy with the differences the Audio-GD DI brought to my system, let's see if it can be improved a little more after changing some cables...


 

 I use an Olimex isolator with the Audio-GD power supply.
   
  The GT2 made a nice improvement in my system, certainly more noticeable than the Ultraviolet I had before.


----------



## drez

http://www.officeworks.com.au/retail/products/office-supplies/packaging-and-mail-room/packaging-tapes/specialty-tapes/st6115
   
  Maybe that would be a bit more practical?


----------



## Sganzerla

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> I use an Olimex isolator with the Audio-GD power supply.
> 
> The GT2 made a nice improvement in my system, certainly more noticeable than the Ultraviolet I had before.


 


   Thanks for the tip somestranger26.
   I changed the power supply of DI to the Olimex and the differences are *amazing*. Will show to some friends who don't believe in differences of this kind to see their reaction.


----------



## drez

Personally I find it hard enough flicking between the USB powered and power supply powered...  I wouldn't be able to discriminate then blind I'm pretty sure...


----------



## somestranger26

Quote:


drez said:


> Personally I find it hard enough flicking between the USB powered and power supply powered...  I wouldn't be able to discriminate then blind I'm pretty sure...


 

 Me too, but having the power supply connected to the isolator rather than DI inexplicably improves imaging and broadens the soundstage in my system.


----------



## Baird GoW

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Quote:
> 
> Me too, but having the power supply connected to the isolator rather than DI inexplicably improves imaging and broadens the soundstage in my system.


 


  I personally couldn't hear a difference.


----------



## donluca

It depends on a ungodly variety of factors guys... like:
   
  how's the USB output of your computer like?
  Is the usb power clean?
  Are there ground loops?
  Do you keep the DI near sources of interference?
  How's the power in your house? Is it stable? Are you running through a power filter?
  Is something connected to the power filter beside the audio equipment?
   
  Really... you can't analyze the single cases... what you can do is just try and report your experience.
   
  In ideal conditions like the usb power is very clean and stable, there are no audible ground loops, the DI is far from interferences... you'll notice almost no improvements with a PSU or a USB isolator or a good USB cable.
   
  Change one of the aforementioned variables, and the equation explodes exponentially in a huge variety of cases.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





donluca said:


> In ideal conditions like the usb power is very clean and stable, there are no audible ground loops, the DI is far from interferences... you'll notice almost no improvements with a PSU or a USB isolator or a good USB cable.


 

 I wish this were true... my USB power is very clean and stable which just means the PSU makes _less_ difference not that it doesn't. The USB cable also makes a difference despite clean power (and it doesn't run near any power cords), I would love to know why but alas cables are difficult to measure audible differences.
   
  The isolator should *always* bring a huge improvement in sound quality unless you're running something like a mini-ITX computer off of batteries -- computers are super noisy and the isolator is serving to get all the junk off the signal conductors on the usb and it also does some other things like remove unnecessary USB packets that could induce timing errors.


----------



## drez

Not always.  The AMG usb isolator I tested actually reduced sound quality by muddling decay very clearly.  I am waiting to get a linear PSU to power my NEC usb pci card, and maybe sort out alternate grounding for the DI.  If I were to test the Omilex I would need to solder on a different USB out connector to simplify things - I'm not too keen on running 2 cables nor running a USB type B male to female adapter - the USB input to the DI is wobbly enough.  If done wrong galvanic isolation can reduce USB signal quality.
   
  As for running the DI psu into the isolator it seems the Tenor USB chip needs USB power to operate stably (I tried without USB power and ground - Its not stable - maybe I can try power without ground...)  Maybe this has something to do with it - does the isolator run off the DC input also?  It could work but I am skeptical of USB isolators at the moment...


----------



## somestranger26

Fair enough, in the case of the Olimex there's no drawbacks. I'm using the NEC USB 3 chipset on my motherboard which seems slightly better than the USB 2 which run through the northbridge and has other devices on it.
   
  You should definitely get the Olimex, but you don't need to put it on DI end. I actually found sq improved more with it isolated straight out of the computer using a usb male a to male b adapter (not male to female). In fact, I'm using the same adapter as leeperry used for his isolator comparisons where he found Olimex to be the best.
   
  No, the isolator's dc input is completely optional. I believe it sips a little power off the bus before isolating the power and data lines. The power supply either supplements or replaces that power, I'm not entirely sure. Anyway, I know the DI is being powered by the power supply because when I flip it on the DI's LED gets brighter.


----------



## kr0gg

guys, which USB card would you recommend? preferably pci, not pci-ex (but either info would be appreciated)
  a link to ebay would be nice.


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Quote:
> 
> Me too, but having the power supply connected to the isolator rather than DI inexplicably improves imaging and broadens the soundstage in my system.


 


  wow. GREAT idea! i'll try that too.
  and there is an explanation actually. being connected that way it feeds stable power to the isolator (which is in fact transforming electrical signal to optical and then back to electrical) and to the DI in the same time.
   
  yeah. also - don't you think that connecting pc usb port -  usb a/b adapter - olimex isolator - furutech GT2 cable (which is a heavy one) makes too much strain on isolator's connectors?


----------



## drez

ordered the omilex.  I also need to try that coaxial attenuator - I seem to be getting some static noises coming out of the DI.  In the long run I will solder on a plug type connector rather than using adapter but IDK whether its surface mount or through hole...


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





drez said:


> ordered the omilex.  I also need to try that coaxial attenuator - I seem to be getting some static noises coming out of the DI.  In the long run I will solder on a plug type connector rather than using adapter but IDK whether its surface mount or through hole...


 


  you mean from the DI itself? or do you hear those noises in your headphones?


----------



## drez

I think on my chipset everything but memory and the x16 pcie go through the northbridge (p55).  The static was on the recording 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Oops.  Now all I need to do is wire up HDD and fans to a seperate PSU to qualify for full audiophile paranoiac disorder.


----------



## kr0gg

i've just tested and i should report that connecting Audio-gd's PSU to the Olimex isolator does improve the sound!


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> yeah. also - don't you think that connecting pc usb port -  usb a/b adapter - olimex isolator - furutech GT2 cable (which is a heavy one) makes too much strain on isolator's connectors?


 

 Yeah, it puts a decent strain on the isolator but I doubt it'll break. I have the GT2 bent (thanks to its heft) with some tape such that it doesn't strain too much. Replacing the connector on the isolator would certainly be ideal.
   

   
  Quote: 





drez said:


> In the long run I will solder on a plug type connector rather than using adapter but IDK whether its surface mount or through hole...


 

 I believe they are through hole because the bottom of the pcb is rough like there's pins through it.
  Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> guys, which USB card would you recommend? preferably pci, not pci-ex (but either info would be appreciated)


 

 Something with NEC USB 3.0 chipset. I have an NEC 2.0 card and prefer my motherboard ports. The USB 3 ports (NEC chipset) on my board sound slightly better even. Also, leeperry said different driver versions on the USB 3 sound different -- I'm using 2.0.30.0 which seems a little better than the driver that ASRock provided.
   
  Quote:


kr0gg said:


> and there is an explanation actually. being connected that way it feeds stable power to the isolator (which is in fact transforming electrical signal to optical and then back to electrical) and to the DI in the same time.


 
  I think the best explanation is that the TE7022 still uses USB power even with the power supply. I don't think the olimex is using the power from the dc input to power itself, I think it's added after the isolation.


----------



## drez

"Power Jack for external power supply with +8-15VDC, note this power jack is
not isolated from the  USB_HOST connector"
   
  But anyway I like your installation - very effective.  I especially like the faceplant orientation of the DI - I will likely copy it if you don't mind 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Still haven't got my GT2 to try out (mostly because it is shorter than current cable) has been like 13 working days...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  It's been raining all week here is Sydney Aus - I'm hoping the postal worker just too lazy to drop the parcel...  Should have made sure seller did registered...


----------



## somestranger26

So does that mean the power is added before isolation? Circuits are not my forte.
  
  Feel free to borrow the "faceplant orientation" but you might not need it. My case is full tower and power supply is on the bottom so that's the only way the cable would reach.


----------



## drez

zzz more dropouts


----------



## Currawong

If you're getting dropouts and you use a Mac, try opening up the Console in Applications -> Utilities and seeing if anything regarding audio or USB is mentioned.


----------



## drez

I think its down to "hard pagefaults" now.  I have got rid of latency spikes completely now.  I can't afford Mac - all pocket money goes on audio gear lol
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -most of the hard pagefaults seem to come from antivirus software file monitoring...  Might try a more lightweight antivirus.
   
  OK check the above - no more hard pagefaults.  If dropouts persist its pretty likely a hardware issue now.


----------



## svyr

drez said:


> I think its down to "hard pagefaults" now.  I have got rid of latency spikes completely now.  I can't afford Mac - all pocket money goes on audio gear lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...




pagefaults are from the OS fetching memory pages from the pagefile on disk instead of RAM (part of the virtual memory extending to disk if necessary. Disk = orders of magnitude slower = bad). You're describing just disk activity by the looks of it
Unless you ran xperf and actually checked the number of hard page faults (where it fetches from disk) and it indicates that's a problem. 

Usually, if you have 4+ gb of ram and aren't (you or windows) doing anything accidentally sad or using ram intensive software (e.g. large images, etc) (like windows accidentally paging to your removable usb hard drive) page faults would not be a problem. (you won't really be paging to disk much anyway)

The easiest way to monitor disk activity in win7 is task manager -> performance-> resource monitor -> disk. Incidentally, that also shows use info about paging ( memory tab) - commit charge is the total incl to disk paging, working set is the pages in ram.


----------



## drez

I think I have it sorted for now - cutting down services and switching antivirus seems to have eliminated hard pagefaults as reported by LatencyMon.  No dropouts yet.
   
  Now can I get troublefree audio with autocad running...


----------



## tim3320070

I run AutoCAD everyday with no dropouts on Win7 64. I use MediaMonkey. I run a lot of other intense programs too.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





drez said:


> I think its down to "hard pagefaults" now.  I have got rid of latency spikes completely now.  I can't afford Mac - all pocket money goes on audio gear lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I like Microsoft Security Essentials for a lightweight antivirus. If you have 4GB of RAM or more, you could also disable the page file as it's unnecessary by searching for "Advanced System Settings" in the start menu, Performance Settings, Advanced, Change Virtual Memory, and set to No Paging File.


----------



## svyr

drez said:


> I think I have it sorted for now - cutting down services and switching antivirus seems to have eliminated hard pagefaults as reported by LatencyMon.  No dropouts yet.
> 
> Now can I get troublefree audio with autocad running...




was it showing them in the red before and in green now?


----------



## drez

Its down to 0 pagefaults - except those caused by latencymon itself.
   
  @Somestranger26 I think maybe your PC has better memory performance than mine - MSE caused heaps of hard pagefaults with its file monitoring on my system.  
   
  Possibly a ram upgrade is in order on my side - I'm using 4 gig of 1333 mhz value ram.  
   
  Either way problem is solved for now - albeit requiring new windows install onto ssd, wireless gateway, and lighweight antivirus.


----------



## oculus

Would there be any chance that there would be an optical input on a unit like this.  I really need something like this to clean up my Airport express.  I really like the Airport express for its fuctional side and for guests supplying music via their iphone etc wirelessly to my sound system. 
  Is it difficult to put optical spdif into a unit as this? or are there any other options out there.  Cheers


----------



## jimmychan

It's easier for you to get a optical to SPIF converter.


----------



## tim3320070

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10423&cs_id=1042302&p_id=2948&seq=1&format=2
   
  I have one and they're not amazing quality but it works.


----------



## donluca

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> If you have 4GB of RAM or more, you could also disable the page file as it's unnecessary by searching for "Advanced System Settings" in the start menu, Performance Settings, Advanced, Change Virtual Memory, and set to No Paging File.


 

 /this
   
  I always do this and it greatly improves performance in windows.
   
  Be aware though, that if you run out of memory, the program you're running will be closed without warning.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





donluca said:


> Be aware though, that if you run out of memory, the program you're running will be closed without warning.


 

 It's possible, but usually Windows complains that you're out of memory and gives you time to save your work. With 4GB(or more) you shouldn't hit that limit unless you're 3d rendering or doing photoshop while listening.


----------



## oculus

After thinking about it I think my best option would be keeping the airport express going directly into the dac but using a apple laptop running into a digital interface for serious listening sessions.  Thanks guys for the input tho
  Jason


----------



## drez

OMILEX USB isolator arrived.  To me the sound without being red the DI power supply smears the imaging quite a bit, but is much better with the DI power supply feeding the isolator.  Let's hope it fixes the dropouts 'cos I'm at wit's end with OS optimisation, and this SSD sin't much better (massive headache). 
   
  EDIT: Isolator does not stop dropouts.  I will be looking for an alternative transport.
   
  As for SQ of the isolator - again I prefer straight from the USB port.  To me a galvanic isolator is only useful if it solves a ground looping issue.  I find imaging much more precise without the isolator ( I have only beeen using it with 2 [good] usb cables but I don't think these are much of a factor.)
   
  I will update if the isolator performs better with the adapter but I have my doubts.
   
  I think from here it would be wisest to try a different transport rather than continue trying to to workaround what would seem to be a fault with the DI itself.
   
  I wonder if I can borrow someone else's adaptive usb transport to prove that the DI is flawed and get my money back from AGD...  Someone else reported no dropouts running straight to the usb input of their [adaptive?] dac...  I will chase that up.
   
  Not happy.


----------



## svyr

drez said:


> OMILEX USB isolator arrived.  To me the sound without being red the DI power supply smears the imaging quite a bit, but is much better with the DI power supply feeding the isolator.  Let's hope it fixes the dropouts 'cos I'm at wit's end with OS optimisation, and this SSD sin't much better (massive headache).
> 
> EDIT: Isolator does not stop dropouts.  I will be looking for an alternative transport.




sorry to hear. Err, try DI on a another pc first?

also, difference between olimex and aimaigin, if nay?


----------



## drez

I mean could always be the power in my room stuffing with the PC but I thought the DC voltage regulation in the PSU would fix this.  I might try the DI on another PC on the weekend - but problem is that the dropouts are intermittent - I would have to leave my rig set up at that other PC for a week


----------



## kr0gg

hm. i was thinking of building an HTPC with SSD because i thought it would make an improvement to the sound. maybe i'm mistaken 
  why do you consider it a "massive headache"?


----------



## drez

I got a vertex 3 and the firmware it came with was unstable.  And it cannot be flashed from the windows disk you have booted from.  And it need to be in atchi mode in the bios for the flash to work.  And this this was a pain to resolve esp as this is my workstation also and the bad firmware causes BSOD.
   
  bit of a pain really.


----------



## drez

OK so I have picked up the pattern in the dropouts - they tend to occur at some point, say an hour, after DI has been plugged in and playing music.  When dropouts start they become frequent, like once every couple of minutes.  Changing music player has no effect.  Unplugging DI and plugging back in gives another period without dropouts.  This pattern occurs with both windows WASAPI and terlink ASIO drivers.  Dropouts are not linked to any measurable computer performance criteria that I know of - not hard pagefaults, not latency spikes, no further troubleshooting can be done with regards to OS and computer hardware.  This malfunction is independent of whichever USB port is used.  The one final test to perform is to use a second computer with the DI to attempt to reproduce this behavior.  Very annoying.


----------



## kr0gg

uhm.. sounds like an overheating issue?


----------



## drez

I don't think its overheating - it happens even when the power supply is in a different location or switched off.  I am currently testing with a laptop I have here.  Hopefully that will shed some light on the issue.
   
  EDIT: well running the DI from a laptop with an isolator still has dropouts - I haven't optimised this laptop for audio playback, using DS etc but at this moment I really cant be bothered digging through this laptops settings as it has an irritatingly small touchpad.  Needless to say same deal goes for the laptop - the DI streams fine for a while and then starts having dropouts.  i will test further, as I fear AGD repairs troubleshooting department aren't so crash hot.  I will also send this around to other for testing once I source an alternative transport.
   
  As for my current guess as to what is going wrong - I am not really qualified to guess but one thing for sure is that I am at my wits end with regards to troubleshooting this cursed device.


----------



## svyr

>Dropouts are not linked to any measurable computer performance criteria that I know of - not hard pagefaults, not latency spikes, no further troubleshooting can be done with regards to OS and computer hardware. This malfunction is independent of whichever USB port is used. The one final test to perform is to use a second computer with the DI to attempt to reproduce this behavior. Very annoying.

how about vanilla disk access/disk load. I've mentioned how to get a measure on that above.


----------



## drez

I doubt disk use is the cause due to the pattern in which the problem occurs, but I will check disk I/O activity next time the problem occurs.  In any case there is nothing I can really do about disk I/O activity, I have stripped down my windows install to bare essentials, I am running a sata 3 SSD and have experimented with all windows paging configurations to no avail.


----------



## shadowlord

i read a few pages back that you can improve 44,1khz material playback by removing the clock for the upsampling frequencies.
  was this experienced by other members as well?
   
  i tried removing the clock but without the possibility to A/B it's hard to tell if there is a improvement.


----------



## sfogar

Hi,
   
  > OK so I have picked up the pattern in the dropouts - they tend to occur at some point, say an hour, after DI has been plugged in and playing music.  
  > When dropouts start they become frequent, like once every couple of minutes.  Changing music player has no effect. 
   
  can confirm this, happens for me too...
   
  All the best
   
  AF


----------



## drez

Good to know so I don't go nuts with troubleshooting.  Given this my guess is that it has something to do with the driver and windows 7's WASAPI ( which also affects teradacs ASIO driver for some reason).
   
  I'm currently testing Jriver's 'event style' WASAPI output to see if that improves things, not that I like the Jriver sound (its solid and punchy but not especially detailed or delicate - not ideal for classical)
   
  EDIT: aaand no jriver event style wasapi doesn't help.  Honestly at this point I am not going to spend any more money trying to get this transport to work properly.


----------



## kr0gg

drez, did you try writing to Kingwa?


----------



## tim3320070

Well, it seems I have a similar system (Win7) but I am using MediaMonkey with no drop outs using standard settings.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





shadowlord said:


> i read a few pages back that you can improve 44,1khz material playback by removing the clock for the upsampling frequencies.
> was this experienced by other members as well?
> 
> i tried removing the clock but without the possibility to A/B it's hard to tell if there is a improvement.


 
   
  I never read anything saying that. The clock is unused when playing 44.1khz so it shouldn't matter.
  
  Quote: 





drez said:


> OMILEX USB isolator arrived.  To me the sound without being red the DI power supply smears the imaging quite a bit, but is much better with the DI power supply feeding the isolator.  Let's hope it fixes the dropouts 'cos I'm at wit's end with OS optimisation, and this SSD sin't much better (massive headache).
> 
> EDIT: Isolator does not stop dropouts.  I will be looking for an alternative transport.


 

 Nobody said that it would. I only get dropouts near midnight when they're messing with the AC frequency. Occasionally while using MPCHC with WASAPI output, but foobar and other programs are fine. My DI runs 24/7.


----------



## drez

@sfogar when did you buy your DI?  
   
  I mean it could be power irregularities affecting the PC but the cyclical nature of the problem has me baffled - the ID, USB controller and NFB-10 are all running from a power regenerator which will filter out any power irregularities - but the PC power supply also has it's own DC voltage regulation circuitry which should [and has been measure to] fix any transient voltage irregularities (ie. no matter what voltage is being fed into the PC the PSU I have should put same voltage into 12V, 5V, 3V.)  Given this I think it's fair to say that my system is in theory immune to wall power anomalies.  I'm not sure how well the PSU fixes fast rise-time voltage irregularities - but I'm guessing the caps in the design should filter these out.  Either way I can get a PSU tester to check this next week, but again I seriously doubt that it is power supply related.
   
  i wouldn't be suprised if all those affected by regular/cyclical dropout behavior bough DI's from the same batch/revision...
   
  a friend of mine with same dropout problem has contacted Kingwa and he couldn't help.  Same guy has a NFB-10 ES fed from the same USB port which runs without dropouts (I think that also runs an adaptive USB implementation, probably TE7022 also.)  interesting huh.


----------



## drez

I think I found a potential culprit - dropouts went mad the minute I reinstalled acrobat X pro...  Worth a try blocking and shutting down all adobe services anyway, maybe I will just use third party acrobat if that fails.


----------



## sfogar

Hi,
   
  they shipped it to me on 19th of May 2011...
   
  My (very) last test (before returning the unit to Kingwa) will be to change the firmware in my Dac (Sabre based) to allow a more jittery spdif stream.
   
  Will let you know...
   
  But consider that, based on my tests:
   
  - Sabre Dac (Buffalo II Dac) + a very cheap USB->SPDIF convert = OK
   
  - Audio GD Digital Interface + Monica2 Dac = OK
   
  Tried on 4 different computer on 2 different locations on 3 different OS with a total of 6 different software players with 4 different spfif cables and 4 different usb cables.
   

   
  All the best
   
  AF
   
   
  Quote: 





drez said:


> @sfogar when did you buy your DI?
> 
> I mean it could be power irregularities affecting the PC but the cyclical nature of the problem has me baffled - the ID, USB controller and NFB-10 are all running from a power regenerator which will filter out any power irregularities - but the PC power supply also has it's own DC voltage regulation circuitry which should [and has been measure to] fix any transient voltage irregularities (ie. no matter what voltage is being fed into the PC the PSU I have should put same voltage into 12V, 5V, 3V.)  Given this I think it's fair to say that my system is in theory immune to wall power anomalies.  I'm not sure how well the PSU fixes fast rise-time voltage irregularities - but I'm guessing the caps in the design should filter these out.  Either way I can get a PSU tester to check this next week, but again I seriously doubt that it is power supply related.
> 
> ...


----------



## kr0gg

please let us know about your DI's destiny after being shipped to Kingwa!


----------



## borrego

One last thing to try for "dropout" trouble shooting: Check if the memory modules inside your computer are matched in speed and latency timing. I have had unmatched memory modules in my notebook before and after I changed to another matched memory module, the number of dropouts reduced significantly.
   
  May also try changing the latency/energy saving/PCI related parameters in the BIOS as last resort


----------



## drez

EDIT: there is no fixing this problem.  How irritating.  Both this DI and my NFB-10 have faulty operation.  Score
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I ordered a BNC attenuator, not that I have any confidence that it will work.  Probably just wasted another $15 on this cursed box.
   
  At this point I am fully committed to reviewing my experience with AGD gear.  Buy with confidence.


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





drez said:


> Buy with confidence.


 


  uhm?


----------



## haloxt

Drez, have you tried multiple computers?


----------



## drez

I will tried to get wasapi/asio drivers no my laptop but it wouldn't install [the drivers.]  I will try again when I get some free time but honestly it shouldn't need THIS much work to get dropout free audio from a USB interface.  It's not like I'm building the thing.
   
  But honestly if I do get bit-perfect streaming to work from another computer - I'm not going to change the computer I stream from long term - so apart from determining if the DI might work on another PC the results will be mostly superfluous.
   
  In other words personally I don't care if this works perfectly on another computer - I'm not going to change my computer (any further that is) in order to get this thing to work.


----------



## haloxt

The thing is, if it's your computer's fault, you can't blame the DI or NFB-10. It may seem to you unlikely that it is your computer's fault, but it's important to find out if it is so that the appropriate measures can be taken. If you test with 3-4 computers with the same results, then it becomes likely the audio-gd gear is defective. If you don't test, we'll never know for sure.


----------



## Gilst

I've seen EMU 1212m mentioned in this thread.
   
  I'm using EMU coax out ->Audio-GD DI coax In -> Buffalo32S ->.. and there's something very smooth in the sound, only apparent after a few seconds.
  Comparing to straight USB ->DI -> Dac... (which sounds great as it is), involving the EMU card certainly adds something, may it be jitter reduction or some sort of filtering.
  Perhaps anyone having this combination (EMU coax out -> DI -> Sabre DAC) could comment on the EMU impact on the sound?
   
  I'm running a 48khz session into non-upsampling free of jumpers DI.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## somestranger26

Have you tried USB -> Isolator -> DI?


----------



## drez

yes I have tried the isolator, doesn't fix the problem.
  @haxlot you don't work for AGD do you?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I mean I get no dropouts when using direct sound, but that's not something I want to do.  
  My colleague gets no dropouts when using the NFB-10 inbuilt adaptive USB interface (and probably the same te7022 chip.)  There are 3 of us all who bought the DI at around the same time who are having this problem, and collectively have still not found any computer system that works with out AGD DI without dropouts (with bitperfect streaming.)  Upsampling does mask the problem but we should not have to use such workarounds, esp. as I prefer the sound without upsampling.
  As for my NFB-10 - it makes noise with low impedance phones even with no digital input plugged in, and when run through a PS-Audio style power regenerator, and tracks with the volume pot.  My colleague had the same problem, sent it back to AGD with a set of headphones for testing and they magically couldn't reproduce the problem and tried to blame it on wall power (which clearly is not the case.)  Either they don't know how to design a power supply, or have pretty bad QC and testing.
  Needless to say if isolated factors were to blame for the dropouts would 3 of us (with completely different systems, different OS, different countries etc.) be having the same problems, spend months trying to fix it and still no results?  Either way I will test with my laptop this weekend but this is quite a lot of trouble I have gone to so far for what is supposedly a finished product.
   
or maybe AGD needs some schooling on how to design a USB interface (from John Kenny)


----------



## borrego

drez, if you still have drop-out problem with your DI running USB power, the issues may be caused by NFB-10 having inverted polarity power cable.
   
  See here Pacific Valve is replacing ALL stock power cables for their Audio-gd product: http://pacificvalve.us/AudiogdGallery.html
   
  So it could be the stock power cable of the NFB-10 is the source of all the problems.


----------



## drez

Could be - there is no way of knowing if the DI operates without dropouts when there is nothing plugged into it's output.
   
*"If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"*




   
  I will try a different PS cable anyway.  
   
  EDIT: different PS cable does not fix issues with the NFB-10.  From what I hear the Australian power cables were not affected by this problem anyway.
   
  again ouch


----------



## jimmychan

I have tried five computers and no drop out problem al all.


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





drez said:


> Needless to say if isolated factors were to blame for the dropouts would 3 of us (with completely different systems, different OS, different countries etc.) be having the same problems, spend months trying to fix it and still no results?  Either way I will test with my laptop this weekend but this is quite a lot of trouble I have gone to so far for what is supposedly a finished product.
> 
> or maybe AGD needs some schooling on how to design a USB interface (from John Kenny)


 

 If you have already tried the DI on different computers then there is 1 more thing to check: the USB socket of the DI, see if the USB cable is kind of loose when it is plugged in. On my DI the little spring tab inside the USB socket kind of give in and causes the USB cable plug loosen. Now I wrap the USB cable around the DI case and put duck taped the cable to the case, "fixing" the USB plug from the socket.
   
  The DI has its flaw but it is a good design given its price. Through it I got better sound from my Yamaha DVD-S1800 player so I am satisfied. I once was tempted to buy the Audiophilleo 2, but just kind of hard to justify the 3 x cost, for the the possible level of further improvement. That is after I have improved the DI's sound by using the 74AHC04 chip.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





drez said:


> yes I have tried the isolator, doesn't fix the problem.


 
   
  I was asking gilst, not you.
   
  Quote: 





borrego said:


> The DI has its flaw but it is a good design given its price. Through it I got better sound from my Yamaha DVD-S1800 player so I am satisfied. I once was tempted to buy the Audiophilleo 2, but just kind of hard to justify the 3 x cost, for the the possible level of further improvement. That is after I have improved the DI's sound by using the 74AHC04 chip.


 


 Yeah, the Audiophilleo's price is pretty outrageous when I've only seen people describe it as a "slight improvement" from the digital interface. I wish someone would compare them using the isolator and hex inverter on the digital interface, since I bet they're nearly identical in performance. For less money than the AP2 I got DI+PSU+Isolator+74VHC04+Furutech GT2+Black Cat Veloce and I can sell the cables for a good chunk of change if I upgrade.


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





jimmychan said:


> I have tried five computers and no drop out problem al all.


 


  I have tried the DI on 6 different notebooks and the best sound come out from the 2 old IBM Thinkpads (model T43 and X61). The worst come from the Dell D520 and with many dropouts. I think the IBM/Lenovo business class notebook really does something right on the USB bus management. Too bad my T43's hard drive broke and I can't find PATA replacement, and the X61 is my company notebook.


----------



## svyr

drez said:


> yes I have tried the isolator, doesn't fix the problem.
> @haxlot you don't work for AGD do you?
> 
> 
> ...




Yea I'm still pretty pissed off about audio-gd screwing with me for nearly 6months and still managing to screw me over...
The low impedance HP issue is plain appalling. I even sent my HP for audio-gd to test the issue with. Considering I was getting problems with noise on low impedance HP on some vol pot settings(well most of them) with nothing connected to it (usb/or outs), with things connected in various combinations, with different usb/power cables/sockets (and at work), with 4 sets of different HP/IEMs, and drez is having the same problem with 2 different isolators and a power regen unit (I'm not even going into the issues with the DI and the amount of time he spent trying to get it to work, or audio-gd screwing with me and other people's orders, misquoting delivery times and straight up lying)...I'd really like to say our experience was less than satisfactory. and no amount of refund can fix it (Edwin still managed to not refund me $30 of the fees  and I lost > $100 shipping it back)

So yes, Kingwa, let's blame it on the Australian power, not design, QC and testing and screwing with customers for months instead of admitting issues and fixing them. Mmm, let's see, could it be an issue with filtered power as well or gremlins, or would we like to, saaay, look into you screwing up your new and amazing relay/resistor based mcu assisted vol pot you brag about on the 10WM/ES pages?



> Dell D520 and with many dropouts

back in the days I had a D630... It had an array of DPC related issues. I wouldn't ever get a dell laptop for audio without running a DPC test and reading up on other problems with it online  .... extensively


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





svyr said:


> Yea I'm still pretty pissed off about audio-gd screwing with me for nearly 6months and still managing to screw me over...
> The low impedance HP issue is plain appalling. I even sent my HP for audio-gd to test the issue with. Considering I was getting problems with noise on low impedance HP on some vol pot settings(well most of them) with nothing connected to it (usb/or outs), with things connected, with different usb/power cables/sockets (and at work), with 3 sets of different HP, and drez is having the same problem with 2 different isolators and a power regen unit (I'm not even going into the issues with the DI and the amount of time he spent trying to get it to work, or audio-gd screwing with me and other people's orders, misquoting delivery times and straight up lying), I'd really like to say our experience was less than satisfactory.
> 
> So yes, Kingwa, let's blame it on the Australian power, not design QC and testing and screwing with customers for months instead of admitting issues and fixing them. Mmm, let's see, could it be an issue with filtered power as well or gremlins, or would we like to say look into you screwing up your new and amazing relay/resistor based mcu assisted vol pot?


 
  That really sucks... I "guess" there was a difficult period on product QC earlier this year when audio-gd hired a batch of new production staff and had difficulty fulfilling orders.
   
   
  Quote: 





svyr said:


> back in the days I had a D630... It had an array of DPC related issues. I wouldn't ever get a dell laptop for audio without running a DPC test and reading up on other problems with it online
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You know, My main notebook for audio is now a HP Probook 4310s (purchased believing in "business" class notebooks would sound better). The HP Probook does give the same level of sound quality as with the old IBM Thinkpads, except there would be exactly 4 dropouts through the DI over every certain period. I mean every time there are exactly 4 dropouts in sequence, just like an hourly alarm! It remains there no matter what Windows 7 power management setting I use.


----------



## svyr

check for dpc issues. i use 4520s without problems (w7 64b). 
a few pages back there was a comprehensive series of posts on diagnosing driver, hard pagefault, high io and dpc related dropouts (if you havent done those already)


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





svyr said:


> check for dpc issues. i use 4520s without problems (w7 64b).
> a few pages back there was a comprehensive series of posts on diagnosing driver, hard pagefault, high io and dpc related dropouts (if you havent done those already)


 

 Yep. I ran the DPC checker and found nothing special. Guess I just live with it as the "4 drop-out" does not happen randomly which indicates a driver or setting problem.


----------



## drez

Well running upsampling seems to solve the problem (I guess it introduces some sort of buffer in the DI that corrects the dropouts.)  Ideally I would like a driver which solves the issue without resorting to using the DI in upsampling operation.
   
  I ordered the whole range of BNC fixed attenuators, so I can find which works best.  This upsampling is really bothering me though - so bright.
   
  BTW has anyone got the DI to work with ASIO4ALL?  I hesitate to get that thrid party driver in case it doesn't work and I waste another $50 on this thing.  Wise thing would be to just cut my losses and move one.


----------



## haloxt

Quote: 





drez said:


> yes I have tried the isolator, doesn't fix the problem.
> @haxlot you don't work for AGD do you?
> 
> 
> ...


 


  If you tested on multiple computers and still have the same problem, obviously you should send the products back to audio-gd. I don't see why you would buy power filters and bnc attenuators and such. One final thing you should try, cplay media player, which stores entire music files on ram. and also maybe cmp which can be used in conjunction, which reduces I/O's.


----------



## svyr

haloxt said:


> If you tested on multiple computers and still have the same problem, obviously you should send the products back to audio-gd. I don't see why you would buy power filters and bnc attenuators and such. One final thing you should try, cplay media player, which stores entire music files on ram. and also maybe cmp which can be used in conjunction, which reduces I/O's.




Don't really need to try a different player, just increase the buffer size. Say a 10-20mb buffer in foobar or aimp (you could even set it to 100mb if you wanted to and the player allows. Aimp does, but not sure if they mean input or output past-decoder buffer (or 16s for foobar))

Also not sure if he has a problem with I/O related drop outs, since drez didn't report back on xperf IO or prefview io graphs


----------



## haloxt

I noticed some programs can suspend usb devices, even with buffer.


----------



## drez

I forgot about running with upsampling, doesn't sound quite as natural but it fixes the dropouts.  I'm guessing an asynchronous USB interface would also avoid any such problem.
   
  Seeing as the DI runs fine from direct sound I'm guessing its some kind of driver related issue.  Buffering really doesn't affect this dropout problem - also why changing players doesn't work.  Running Jriver on 'event style' WASAPI driver doesn't help either.  I'm out of my depth trying to guess what any of this means.
   
  I went to the trouble of running my computer from a different circuit to the power regenerator but that didn't help either.  If the problem is related to grounding I have no Idea how to address this either.
   
  I have looked at disk I/O metrics (from perfmon as well as task manager) and there doesn't appear to be any problems - I have pretty much the minimum of background tasks that is safe to run and the latest sata 3 SSD installed - and no hard pagefaults under normal operation.
   
  The next dumb tweak I was going to do was run the motherboard and cpu from a separate PSU - but really my money would be better spent on a good asynchronous USB transport which will avoid all these problems.


----------



## haloxt

Try cplay. It works differently from other software players.


----------



## drez

meh think I'll just oversampling and give up for now...


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





drez said:


> meh think I'll just oversampling and give up for now...


 


  If you are using foobar or J. River MC, another thing you can try is to increase the loading of the player such that the computer spend more time on it. How? Install the VST plug-in component in foobar (or J. RIver MC) and load at least 1 VST DSP plug in. If you want to remain neutral, just pick an EQ plugin and set a flat EQ curve.
   
  Although I experience dropout using foobar playing 16/44 audio using the DI, I have never, (repeat) NEVER experienced drop out ever once when using foorbar + DVD audio plug-in to play 24/96 DVD audio through the DI. And you should know playing high resolution DVD audio is supposedly more demanding on the computer and DI. In my case the DVD is a 4.7GB file virtually mounted as a drive using PowerISO shareware.
   
  I think it is part of the fun using computer as source component.


----------



## drez

I tried prcoessor scheduling via batch files to run the players (Increasing the processor priority of the player) and that didn't really help with dropouts (even when running players at realtime) so I don't think its a matter of the player prioroty.
   
  I might try moving the player process to a less busy processor core but I really think the problem isn't to do with the media player.


----------



## somestranger26

Do you have file buffering on in foobar and have you set the playback thread priority to 7? Changing the players' process priority just changes the UI and decoding priorities. Even with the playback set to realtime priority, the default driver for the TE7022 doesn't run in realtime so that's one thing out of your control.
   
  What sort of results does LatencyMon give you when you're getting dropouts?


----------



## drez

Strange thing is that letency monitor doesn't show any activity that correlates to dropouts - ie when it shows hard pagefults (mostly from its own operation) there are no dropouts, and when there are dropouts from the DI there are no exceptional hard pagefaults or latency spikes (or spikes in processor or I/O activity for that matter)
   
  This makes me think that its either to do with the driver mis-managing some kind of buffer, or some other electrical fault (eg. grounding).
   
  When the DI is set to upsampling ie. it reclocks the data with the onboard DSP circuitry, there are no dropouts (but this occurs after the USB receiver chip does it's work)
   
  I could try turning grounding off on the USB controller (has a jumper for this) and see if that works but then the DI might not work at all.  I'm out of my depth here and purely speculating - so if anyone can comment this would be helpful.
   
  EDIT: OK so it runs without ground or power, and with ground but no power.  I will test both of these without upsampling when I recover the nerve to deal with dropouts again.  Initial impressions - with no ground and no power soundstage seems more intimate and hazy, and imaging seems a little more haphazzard (relative to no power and with ground).  No power and with ground (compared to no power and no ground) soundstage has more depth and sense of space.  Imaging is similar but more subjectively stable due to the better sense of space.  Will compare power power to ground only next.


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





drez said:


> I could try turning grounding off on the USB controller (has a jumper for this)


 
   
  nice feature. do you use a separate controller?


----------



## drez

yes I use this overpriced pci USB controller.  Not sure if any others can modify these settings.
   
  To conclude my comparison I seem to find the ground setting to sound the best - best soundstage and instrument placing/imaging.  Strangely one of the USB ports detects the DI as "TE7022" while the other just shows "USB audio device."  Not sure how this might relate to the driver installed.
   
  EDIT: unfortunately this setting does not allow me to test the OMILEX isolator with the DI (OMILEX needs to draw power from USB port).  One last variable to test is whether the computer's main PSU sounds better than the external PSU I am using which has no published ripple settings, and I don't have an oscilloscope, or the knowledge to use one.


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





drez said:


> yes I use this overpriced pci USB controller.  Not sure if any others can modify these settings.
> 
> To conclude my comparison I seem to find the ground setting to sound the best - best soundstage and instrument placing/imaging.  Strangely one of the USB ports detects the DI as "TE7022" while the other just shows "USB audio device."  Not sure how this might relate to the driver installed.
> 
> EDIT: unfortunately this setting does not allow me to test the OMILEX isolator with the DI (OMILEX needs to draw power from USB port).  One last variable to test is whether the computer's main PSU sounds better than the external PSU I am using which has no published ripple settings, and I don't have an oscilloscope, or the knowledge to use one.


 

 WOW. i've seen it before and i'm pretty interested in it. can you share your experience with this controller?
   
  as about the OLIMEX and power - i actually got best SQ out of Digital Interface when i connected DI's PSU to the OLIMEX dongle, not to the DI.
  that way it will feed BOTH of them (isolator+DI) with clean power.
  you should try this too


----------



## leeperry

kr0gg said:


> as about the OLIMEX and power - i actually got best SQ out of Digital Interface when i connected DI's PSU to the OLIMEX dongle, not to the DI.
> that way it will feed BOTH of them (isolator+DI) with clean power.
> you should try this too


 

 I've spoken w/ the designer of the Olimex dongle: whatever PSU you'll input on the external connector will always go through a switched mode regulator(BF9001F). Isolation doesn't come for free ripple-wise, it never will. He advised to tap the PSU directly onto the device USB connector pins.
   
  I don't recall who feeds the 4160 chip, though...but I'm quite sure it's the computer, you may wanna ask Olimex for confirmation


----------



## drez

erm I just compared the tx-usb to the motherboards USB 2.0 port.  Motherboard was more focussed imaging - better treble tonality, less bass bloom.  
   
wow don't I feel stupid now.  I now have a $300 usb controller which sounds worse than the onboard controllers.
   
  wait ignore the above - the tx-usb sounds great - want to buy it?


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> I've spoken w/ the designer of the Olimex dongle: whatever PSU you'll input on the external connector will always go through a switched mode regulator(BF9001F). Isolation doesn't come for free ripple-wise, it never will. He advised to tap the PSU directly onto the device USB connector pins.
> 
> I don't recall who feeds the 4160 chip, though...but I'm quite sure it's the computer, you may wanna ask Olimex for confirmation


 


  ok. i've just sent him a letter.
  i'm pretty sure that with a PSU connected the isolator is fed too (at least, my ears tell me so )
  but we'll see


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





drez said:


> erm I just compared the tx-usb to the motherboards USB 2.0 port.  Motherboard was more focussed imaging - better treble tonality, less bass bloom.
> 
> wow don't I feel stupid now.  I now have a $300 usb controller which sounds worse than the onboard controllers.
> 
> wait ignore the above - the tx-usb sounds great - want to buy it?


 

 never expected _such_ an answer 
  i remember leeperry dreaming about one of those cards...


----------



## drez

yeah really disappointed here - I kind of didn't bother to compare it to onboard before.
   
   I just did quick comparison PSU into DI vs into OMILEX - kind of prefer into DI but that impression might be a bit premature.  Will compare vs straight USB later.  Critical listening is tiring.
   
  BTW is anyone using the Ploytec drivers?


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





drez said:


> yeah really disappointed here - I kind of didn't bother to compare it to onboard before.
> 
> I just did quick comparison PSU into DI vs into OMILEX - kind of prefer into DI but that impression might be a bit premature.  Will compare vs straight USB later.  Critical listening is tiring.
> 
> BTW is anyone using the Ploytec drivers?


 
  i am using Ploytec drivers.
  they _seem_ to sound better (especially if set to minimal latency, i.e. 6ms)
  but they simply "hang" the DI if you transmit anything at 48khz and they also glitch if you start playing a second file with different frequency without stopping the first one.
  i'm using windows7 and currently i've managed a nice thing: when i plug the DI in one usb-controller it automatically uses Ploytec drivers, when i plug it in another one - it automatically uses default Windows drivers.
  but...due to the long process of turning the DI on and off (at least mine can initialize only after a few minutes after being turned off) it's impossible to really A/B those drivers.


----------



## Gilst

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Have you tried USB -> Isolator -> DI?


 

  
  No, the 40-50 bucks shipping just doesn't feel right to me.


----------



## sfogar

Hi,
   
  I received the 'high bandwidth' firmware for my Buffalo II Dac, installed it on the dac and tried the usual tests.
   
  Well, the dropouts are still there, no change, probably a bit worse...
   
  So I tried to use the upsampling to 96khz and the dropoouts are gone !
   
  So definetly there's a problem with Sabre Dacs with no upsampling which is 'cured' by the upsampling, I don't know how ...
   
  This is not a complete solution cause I didn't want to upsample but ...
   
  AF


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





gilst said:


> No, the 40-50 bucks shipping just doesn't feel right to me.


 


  Olimex isolator shipping is pretty cheap actually


----------



## leeperry

sfogar said:


> So definetly there's a problem with Sabre Dacs with no upsampling which is 'cured' by the upsampling


 

 Kingwa confirmed clock synchronization problems on their 9018 chip indeed: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/516886/audio-gd-nfb-11/570#post_7173071
   
  Mandatory ASRC looked dubious anyway.


----------



## sfogar

Quote: 





> Mandatory ASRC looked dubious anyway.


 

 Yes, I know but it seems the case...
   
  Best
   
  AF


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





sfogar said:


> So definetly there's a problem with Sabre Dacs with no upsampling which is 'cured' by the upsampling, I don't know how ...


 


 I don't understand how you came to the conclusion that the DAC is the problem if upsampling on the digital interface fixed it. I have gotten dropouts playing native 24/96 files before too.


----------



## sfogar

Hi,
   
  Quote:


> I don't understand how you came to the conclusion that the DAC is the problem if upsampling on the digital interface fixed it. I have gotten dropouts playing native 24/96 files before too.


 

 No, no, I came to this conclusion (not that the Dac is the problem but that the Digital Interface is the problem) with 2 months of tests...
   
  My Dac works ok without dropouts, with a lot of different interfaces to spdif.
   
  If you look in previous messages, even another user (drez) came to the same conclusion...
   
  Best
   
  AF


----------



## ohhgourami

Elaborate more on the upsampling and how you finally got it to stop...
   
  I've stopped using my DI + PSU for more than 2 weeks now since I was never able to solve the issue...just straight into my NFB-10ES via USB which works perfectly fine, except for the slight degrade in sound.


----------



## drez

don't know how many times I have used this image for adjusting jumpers (many thanks to the poster) - but I use the upsampling to 96 khz as I had issues using 192 before.
   
  I have crossed over to the onboard NEC USB 3.0 + OMILEX + DI + PSU + need OCD meds camp.  Not sure if I have descended to the insanity of CMP build guys though


----------



## leeperry

drez said:


> Not sure if I have descended to the insanity of CMP build guys though


 
   
  finally someone who agrees that the audio engine is bloated in Vista/W7. It won't even support a variable sample rate w/o resorting to ASIO/WASAPI Exclusive...
   
  OTOH, HPET allows for a much lower timer granularity(using Fidelizer) than XP will ever be able to...so much for whining about jitter if your OS is jittery to begin w/.
   
  but yeah, the cMP guys claim to be able to hear a lot of stuff I'm highly dubious about


----------



## sfogar

Hi,
  Quote: 





ohhgourami said:


> Elaborate more on the upsampling and how you finally got it to stop...
> 
> I've stopped using my DI + PSU for more than 2 weeks now since I was never able to solve the issue...just straight into my NFB-10ES via USB which works perfectly fine, except for the slight degrade in sound.


 
   
  Well I tried mainly cause Drez already found that using upsampling dropouts stopped...
   
  Since I changed to upsampling not even a single dropout...
   
  You have to open the top cover of your DI with a screwdriver...
   
  Then you have to set the jumpers...
   
  AF


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote: 





sfogar said:


> Hi,
> 
> Well I tried mainly cause Drez already found that using upsampling dropouts stopped...
> 
> ...


 

 Looking at it and I'm not sure how the jumpers should be set to. My guess is that upsampling should be on and everything should be off except for 96k?  I also don't understand how to set the portion for the MMD0 and MMD1.
   
  Also, does upsampling change the quality of the sound? I heard that the default settings actually sound the best.


----------



## tim3320070

Many prefer the upsampling as I do. It's subtle anyway.


----------



## ohhgourami

It seems just setting it to upsampling FIXED the problem.  I'll leave it at that and call it a day...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'm so glad I don't have 2 useless black boxes on my desk.


----------



## Sganzerla

Upsampling sounded a little subtle in the first few days of my unit but now I think it sound rather different, at least here with TCXO.


----------



## somestranger26

You guys should definitely be complaining to Kingwa about your "unfixable" dropout issues. I get zero in a typical day and at most two or three that usually happen around midnight. I wouldn't want to settle for upsampling since I like the sound better without and you spent so much on the DI you shouldn't have to make such a compromise.
   
  I'm just using a stripped down Windows 7 install (about half the services that would usually be running are disabled) and I even can have programs like uTorrent and Microsoft Security Essentials open without issues.


----------



## muad

Is this dropout issue common? I want to order the DI but am kind of hesitant based off the dropout issues I'm reading about. I plan on using it with foobar bitperfect to the DI and then to the audiogd fun... and I don't want to upsample!


----------



## tim3320070

Personally, I don't think it's worth the money for your Fun. Upgrade the DAC/Amp for a real improvement.


----------



## muad

Well I prefer the sound of my creative xfi titanium optical out vs the te7022 usb. I'm leaving for school soon and have to switch to a laptop with no spdif. I was hoping the DI would be close to the optical out of the xfi titanium...

And I really like the sound otherwise from the audiogd fun, maybe in a few years ill grab the bottle head crack or something but for now I think it would cost a fair amount of money to beat the fun...


----------



## somestranger26

The dropout problem seems to only be an issue for _certain people_ with Sabre-based DACs. Go ahead and get the digital interface if you want to replace the x-fi, I guarantee it will be better than optical if you could tell optical vs usb. Then, whenever you want to upgrade the FUN you've got a good digital interface to work with and there's some upgrades you can make to the DI to improve performance (hex inverter, usb isolator, cables).


----------



## muad

thanks for the reply!
   
  I was thinking the DI would be a permanent part of my system, and would give me a digital out from whatever source I have in the future, even after I upgrade other components. I figure it will never be a waste of money since it will give me a quality coaxial out of any computer for the next 10+ years. I'm just glad the drop out issues will not affect me, kinda curious why it only affects sabre dacs...


----------



## tim3320070

I have the DI and the NFB12 (among other higher end AGD units that the DI supplies). The improvement from DI to NFB12 USB input is quite subtle but noticeable. Your improvement for money spent is slight IMO. This is my direct experience and take it for what it's worth.
  We were just in Vancouver and loved it!


----------



## muad

Thanks Tim, Vancouver can be really beautiful when it's not raining! 
   
  Appreciate the feedback, I plan to use the DI for years to come when upgrading
   
  When I switch back and forth between USB and wasapi optical out from my XFI there is a noticeable difference. I'm not sure how to describe it, but in some songs optical seems a little clearer. This seems to allow some of the ambiance a bit more obvious... I will agree that it is very subtle.


----------



## log0

Hello All,
  I've been meaning to write about my experience with the DI. I purchased a DI about a month ago, version B with the added power supply to mate with my Reference One DAC. I thought the DI would be a good match for the Reference One.
   
  My setup: iMac using Audirvana > Furutech GT2 USB cable > DI with power supply > BNC cable > Reference One.
  I made no modifications to the DI, it is stock. I have not changed any jumpers.
  For my Reference One, it was upgraded to include the DSP v5 chip which also has all the jumpers set to default.
   
  From my Reference One DAC, I'm using gold plated (unknown brand) RCA cables to about a 40 years receiver, a Luxman R-1120. From the Luxman, I am using LCD-2 (rev1) headphones with standard headphone cable. I mainly listen to FLAC files and some 96khz music from every genre of music.
   
  My experience with this setup has been good, but not great. There is a lot of detail throughout the entire sonic range and the sound stage is three dimensional. Highs are a bit harsh, some sibilance occurs when listening too loudly. All in all I was pleased with the pairing of the DI and Reference One but I was not blown away like I thought I should be.
   
  Listening to Diana Krall's smooth voice, the system again does a great job of revealing all the details of her voice, the piano, bass guitar, etc. The highs with this type of music are also a bit harsh. If I switch up my selection to Jimi Hendrix, the electric guitar also fatigues me and I have to stop listening after about a half hour. Classical is a bit easier to listen to, not as much fatigue.
   
  I chocked this up to my 40 year old receiver, the most unconventional part of my system. Surely this old vintage receiver is the X factor for this whole sonic experiment.
   
  Enter a newly acquired Playstation SCPH-1001 with RCA outputs.
   
  Wow. After listening to some Redbook CDs on the Playstation 1 I felt the presentation was more cohesive, the midrange was absolutely liquid. Some reviews accuse the PS1 of not being able to deliver the extremes of the spectrum and after direct comparison with the DI and Reference One, this may be true. However, simply put, I enjoyed the music more out of a $35 dollar PS1. It has an analog quality to the music, tonal accuracy, great sound stage, and it's also not fatiguing to listen to at all.
   
  After switching back and forth between the DI + Reference One and the PS1, a couple things immediately stood out.
  1. The PS1 is outputting a weaker signal than the Reference One since I need to use more volume.
  2. The PS1 sounds more analog than the Reference One, no harshness at all in the highs. After comparison, it feels like I'm hearing some digititus with the DI and Reference One pairing.
  3. The PS1 is a LOT cheaper! 
   
  Help me out here guys. Is this just the inherent flaw with using USB as a digital medium? As great as the DI is and as great as Kingwa's R2R PCM1704UK based DACs are, is it possible that a cheap sigma-delta CD player can provide a better musical experience, a more analog and cohesive sound? Is this simply a matter of CD vs computer audio? I know this is a rhetorical question and this depends on the listener every time, but I imagine that some folks must be disappointed with the quality of their digital audio when compared to CD players. After looking at the insides of the DI and the Reference One DAC I know these are quality pieces of equipment that that should be capable of outperforming a Playstation 1. I think this speaks more to the quality of the PS1, not to take anything away from the DI and Reference One.
   
  Any tips for helping my DI and Reference One sound a bit less harsh, more analog? I've switched from the standard 8x oversampling on the DSP v5 chip to NOS. This seems to have smoothed out the presentation and killed a little harshness at the expense of making the sound stage a bit smaller. I appreciate your comments!


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





log0 said:


> *Some reviews accuse the PS1 of not being able to deliver the extremes of the spectrum* and after direct comparison with the DI and Reference One, this may be true. However, simply put, I enjoyed the music more out of a $35 dollar PS1. It has an analog quality to the music, tonal accuracy, great sound stage, and it's also not fatiguing to listen to at all.
> ...
> *The PS1 sounds more analog* than the Reference One, no harshness at all in the highs. After comparison, it feels like I'm hearing some digititus with the DI and Reference One pairing.


 
   
  OT: why do people always associate roll-off in the treble to analog sound???


----------



## macrog

Quote: 





log0 said:


> Hello All,
> I've been meaning to write about my experience with the DI. I purchased a DI about a month ago, version B with the added power supply to mate with my Reference One DAC. I thought the DI would be a good match for the Reference One.
> 
> My setup: iMac using Audirvana > Furutech GT2 USB cable > DI with power supply > BNC cable > Reference One.
> ...


 
   
  It sounds like the rolled off sound of the PS1 isn't exposing weakness elsewhere in the chain.  Have you replaced the capacitors on the reciever? They really need to be redone every 10 - 20 years.
   
  It is easy to make a system sound worse by improving your source as problems elsewhere are likely to be more obvious.
   
  Regards
   
  Macrog


----------



## haloxt

I would try different amps to try to find a better sound signature match. I get quite good sound out of my ref 1 rca to a 15 year old mid-price panasonic receiver, just some digititis from the receiver. Also try plugging the ref 1 and amp directly to the wall without any surge protector, that should reduce dynamic compression in the amp. And make sure your computer isn't equalizing.


----------



## jimmychan

DI-> Ref 1-> a decent head amp, whould surpass the PS1 thousand times.


----------



## log0

I did a little more testing yesterday. I hooked my receiver up to my speakers, Definitive Technology BP7002s, and the DI + Reference One combo sounded better to my ears than the PS1. Must be with headphones. I hope anyone out there who is looking for a cheap CD player will give the Playstation 1 a try, it is truly as impressive as Jeff Day over at 6moons says it is. Whether it's $6k good, probably not but it definitely performs beyond it's price.
   
  As for the capacitors on the Luxman R-1120, no they have not been replaced, I cannot find someone to do it for a reasonable price. I have a Pioneer SX-1250 that will also need the service, people seem to be charging a lot to restore these beauties. Might be worth it to sell both and buy a modern amplifier, I've been wanting to try a Leben receiver.
   
  Thanks for the responses.


----------



## dukja

Glad to see you put your system together.  I rarely checked DI thread but just happened to see your post here.
   
  In all my experience with DI+Ref-1/7, they were anything but hash or fatiguing, PERIOD.  Those are words that I never used on that pair.  I have never heard of LCD2.  In my experience of T1, HE-6, and Stax SR-407,  I learned that if there is harshness or siblance, then it always come from the music (file).  All my music files are FLAC and I knew some are just have hot treble and those are used as the "test for the extreme case".  The harshness is in the music already.  If I feel less of it, usually it is because the headphone or other part of the chain "smooth" it out (not necessary "improves" it in absolute sense.)   For example, my sr-407 let me hear those hot recording with less strain, but I knew the higher extreme was less prominent in 407 than all my past phones.  And I might miss some of those sparkling of high in other music that calls for it.
   
  So, music may be the source of the problem but the rest of the chain alters it.  You might want to check with other music files.
   
  I will call DI+Ref1 as a very revealing setup especially in the mid/high range.  The high resolution and "high density" of sound is actually where DI+Ref1 shines and wins over my other past DACs.  However, if the rest of your chain do not handle those freq properly, you might have problem instead.
   
  So you might want to consider getting a "normal" quality amp that does not need work and check. (I like my Pioneer SX-950, but I have been re-capping the whole amp and I can hear great change on the sound). And if you are really sensitive to the treble, you really need to check into the Stax gear.  A used SRM-1 MK2 or new SRM-323S plus a SR-407 will make a system that compete really well with all the top tier dynamic phones, and with a very reasonable cost.  And the bass is unique and great!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





log0 said:


> My experience with this setup has been good, but not great. There is a lot of detail throughout the entire sonic range and the sound stage is three dimensional. Highs are a bit harsh, some sibilance occurs when listening too loudly. All in all I was pleased with the pairing of the DI and Reference One but I was not blown away like I thought I should be.
> Listening to Diana Krall's smooth voice, the system again does a great job of revealing all the details of her voice, the piano, bass guitar, etc. The highs with this type of music are also a bit harsh. If I switch up my selection to Jimi Hendrix, the electric guitar also fatigues me and I have to stop listening after about a half hour. Classical is a bit easier to listen to, not as much fatigue.
> 
> I chocked this up to my 40 year old receiver, the most unconventional part of my system. Surely this old vintage receiver is the X factor for this whole sonic experiment.
> ...


----------



## log0

Hey dukja,
  Thanks for the response! I am enjoying the Reference One very much, I'm finding I like it more in my system when hooked up to speakers rather than headphones, though I attribute this to my old receiver. It does need to be recapped.
   
  The same faults I heard from the DI + Ref One combo when listening with the LCD-2 disappear when listening to speakers, though the same receiver hooked up the PS1 sounds fantastic through headphones, nice and smooth.
   
  I too only have been listening to FLAC files, both 44.1khz and 96khz, so I don't think the music files themselves are to blame. As for Stax gear, maybe one day when the funds are there, but my next purchase will hopefully be a tube amplifier that sounds great with headphones and can drive efficient speakers. I'm hoping the famed Leben receivers will fit the bill. Thanks again for the great deal on the Reference One, and let me know if you have any other gear you want to unload


----------



## haloxt

Just so you don't go on a wild goose chase, keep in mind audio-gd's balanced amps and headphone amps are great matches with the ref 1. Other amps can sound good with it, but you'd have to do some trial and error to find an amp that is a great technical and sound signature match for the ref 1.


----------



## log0

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> Just so you don't go on a wild goose chase, keep in mind audio-gd's balanced amps and headphone amps are great matches with the ref 1. Other amps can sound good with it, but you'd have to do some trial and error to find an amp that is a great technical and sound signature match for the ref 1.


 

 Oh yes, I've been considering purchasing a Phoenix as well, I've been waiting to see one hit the used market to see what they would ask for it. One of the things I'm trying to accomplish with my setup is to use all pieces for both speakers and headphones. The DI + Reference One is a great starting point for a computer audio speaker setup in addition to headphones. I also enjoy the sound of tube amplifiers the very few times I've heard them. While you're right, something like the Phoenix would be a great match for the Reference One, it cannot drive speakers although I've thought about keeping it in the speaker system as a preamp. We'll see, if the price is right...


----------



## Sganzerla

log0,
   
   I think you problem with harsh highs is being caused by the Furutech USB GT2 cable. When I added it to my system there were some improvements, especially in clarity, but the differente it made on the highs were not very welcome here in my system.
   I've been searching for an alternative cable (warmer if that is possible) but haven't reached any conclusion yet, unfortunately. I said something about my experience in another forum I participate, and one member said he had the exactly same experience as mine when added this cable to its system.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





sganzerla said:


> log0,
> 
> I think you problem with harsh highs is being caused by the Furutech USB GT2 cable. When I added it to my system there were some improvements, especially in clarity, but the differente it made on the highs were not very welcome here in my system.
> I've been searching for an alternative cable (warmer if that is possible) but haven't reached any conclusion yet, unfortunately. I said something about my experience in another forum I participate, and one member said he had the exactly same experience as mine when added this cable to its system.


 

 The Furutech GT2 Cable is really transparent and detailed. If there is any harshness it will be due to your system, not the cable's fault.
   
  Try Wireworld Starlight. It is warmer.
   
  (Note: I am not going to start a digital cable war here so those who thinks that USB cable doesn't make a difference, I respect your opinion)


----------



## Sganzerla

uelover,
   
   Upgrade after upgrade my system was becoming more transparent, and with less harshness, until this USB cable, so I really think this is not a fault on my system.
   Not that it is the best, but... I really think bad matching components can destroy a system, so I'm not looking for its 'silver' sound signature it brought here.
   
   Unfortunately the WW Starlight is not sold to my country, because there is a distributor here, and they charge something like US$ 600.00 for 1m cable, and eBay prices are a little higher than the street price in US. I may try Nordost one soon, but I have a fear that it may sound similar to Furutech.


----------



## uelover

Hmm but we are talking about USB digital cable here and the silver component used should not affect the sound in the same way as an analogue cable does.
   
  We just need a good shielded cable that is capable of maintaining the integrity of the digital data from the computer to the DAC. Anything that does this well, be it even a printer USB cable, will be good.
   
  I had the wireworld starlight USB cable which sounded warmer but then it is like a low pass filter. Since it is at the source end, I will not want details in the higher frequencies to be lost.
   
  I think that if you were to get the DI w/PSU, the harshness in your system will be gone.


----------



## drez

I would be careful not to throw the baby away with the bathwater - there are more factors here than the USB cable.  Sure some other USB cable might sound less bright or warmer (as in less prominent treble and thicker mids/bass) but you must be careful that this is not because it is adding more distortion.  You should listen out for other things as well when comparing USB cable like imaging and soundstage.
   
  Unfortunately there is no way of knowing whether the GT2 is good or not as nobody has bothered to measure its performance empirically - specifically regarding its jitter performance which, along with noise performance is the only way a digital cable can affect an audio system.  Having said this jitter appears not always as harsher treble - it cal also have warmer attributes like more bass bloom and less incisive highs.  the D+ usb might be a good one to try though if you are set on changing USB cable - they are cheap and have provided some vague semblance of performance measurements (oscilloscope screenshots, also use single crystal copper.)
   
  Changing USB port can also affect USB performace (less harsh highs etc.)  The Jriver player IMO is also a good one if you are after a less forward sound signature - for me it surpasses Foobar.
   
  Another thing to consider is that the DT880 is a bright headphones and will mercilessly render a slightly exaggerated treble.  If you have a nutral system the DT880 will sound bright.  If you want them to sound warmer - change to OPA MOON from AGD from your OPA EARTH - it will probably cost less than a USB cable, and will definitely result in a warmer, smoother sound.
   
  EDIT: I take that back about the D+ usb being cheap - I got mine for $35 US but that doesn't appear to be typical price...


----------



## log0

Thanks for the comment about the GT2 cable, I will definitely try replacing it with another cable. I bought one recently from monoprice that seems well insulated, I'll do an A/B and give my opinion.
   
  What's funny is the only harshness I hear is through my LCD-2s. When hooked up to speakers I do not hear the harshness, only a plethora of detail especially from the mid-range on up. It may be that headphones are a more intimate listening experience and therefore you can hear more of your systems pros and cons, or it could be the headphone output of my 40 year old receiver. We'll see.
   
  My greatest fear is that computer audio may not be able to give a fulfilling listening experience. My first entry into listening to audiophile equipment was  about a year ago and that setup was a Perfect Wave Transport > Perfect Wave DAC (via I2S) > McIntosh C2300 Preamp > McIntosh MC2301 tube monoblocks > MIT speaker cables > Reference 3a Grand Veenas (my avatar). This setup was an absolute musical experience I'll never forget. 
   
  Now my current setup is no where near the level of the one I just described, that setup was probably $50k+ of equipment.  Hopefully using a computer as a source could produce the same musical experience I felt a year ago. Unfortunately I'm already considering selling my DI after reading several positive reviews about the Audiophilleo.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





log0 said:


> Thanks for the comment about the GT2 cable, I will definitely try replacing it with another cable. I bought one recently from monoprice that seems well insulated, I'll do an A/B and give my opinion.
> 
> What's funny is the only harshness I hear is through my LCD-2s. When hooked up to speakers I do not hear the harshness, only a plethora of detail especially from the mid-range on up. It may be that headphones are a more intimate listening experience and therefore you can hear more of your systems pros and cons, or it could be the headphone output of my 40 year old receiver. We'll see.
> 
> ...


 

 I believe that your 40 year old receiver veils a lot of things. Just get a good headphone amp (maybe Schiit Lyr) and a good pair of interconnect for your LCD2 and I believe that will bring you much closer to the 50k speaker setup you spoke of. This will bring you a much greater benefit than upgrading your DI.
   
  You may want to consider Stello U3 if you do sell your DI. I was split between Audiophilleo and Stello U3 but the U3 came as my choice for its price and features.


----------



## log0

Thanks for the recommendation, I have not heard of the Stello U3. It seems to be competitively priced against the Audiophilleo2. I will have to read some reviews and comparisons.
   
  I have to admit, the one thing I hate reading about is battery mods or mods in general that people do to increase the SQ of these devices. I was hoping the manufacturer would come up with an extra power solution whether battery or wall plugged, much like Audio-GD has with it's external PSU for it's DI.
   
  As if spending almost $900 for a Audiophilleo1 isn't enough, people start splicing USB wires and connecting them to batteries for increased performance. Diminishing returns? Where is the end game? Anyways, I digress.


----------



## tim3320070

USB cable changing highs and lows, hmm...........can-o-worms opened.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





log0 said:


> Thanks for the recommendation, I have not heard of the Stello U3. It seems to be competitively priced against the Audiophilleo2. I will have to read some reviews and comparisons.
> 
> I have to admit, the one thing I hate reading about is battery mods or mods in general that people do to increase the SQ of these devices. I was hoping the manufacturer would come up with an extra power solution whether battery or wall plugged, much like Audio-GD has with it's external PSU for it's DI.
> 
> As if spending almost $900 for a Audiophilleo1 isn't enough, people start splicing USB wires and connecting them to batteries for increased performance. Diminishing returns? Where is the end game? Anyways, I digress.


 


 Audiophilleo 2 used to cost USD495 before the seller jacked up the price to USD579. Audiophilleo 1 now cost USD949 as compared to USD800+ previously. The markup is just too high to justify what I am paying for.
   
  Stello U3 retail price is USD495 but Soundapproach sells Stello U3 for USD445.
   
  Some newer DAC designed specifically for computer audiophile contains really good USB interface - e.g., the upcoming DAC by Stello will contain the entire U3 module in it and the DAC by Calyx uses similar chipset as well.
   
  With that said, the DI targets entry level consumers who wishes to improve their onboard USB input or for those with DACs without USB input.


----------



## drez

Either way my advice would be not to try using USB cable to control system sound signature warmth - there are far better and more reliable ways of doing that which have potentially less negative influence on other aspects of sound reproduction.
   
  Best not to get into that USB issue.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





drez said:


> Either way my advice would be not to try using USB cable to control system sound signature warmth - there are far better and more reliable ways of doing that which have potentially less negative influence on other aspects of sound reproduction.
> 
> Best not to get into that USB issue.


 

 I have to agree. Harshness are more often than not due to the components used and the USB cables (which many have claimed to have no effect on SQ), should be the last culprit.


----------



## Sganzerla

It is cool to discuss this here at this forum, but I'm well aware of many of these things that you are saying.
   
   I found that Furutech GT2 cable has a silver signature sound, the same I found when I made my power cables using silver plugs (yes, I compared many plugs using the same cable), I heard more "details" and "better soundstage" but it was just a matter of high frequency fooling me. But this is another discussion, I really found this USB cable to sound like silver, as cliché as it may sound, this is true for me.
   
  OPA Moon always sounded cold and with a strange behaviour in the mid highs, I prefer the organic/natural sound of Earth OPA. Moon OPA was sold 3 months ago with my Compass.
   I use JRiver too, and cPlay (which is the best), my DI power supply is feeding the Olimex USB Isolator (after a tip somestranger26 gave here) because I found little if any difference at all with it. The USB port I'm using is the best of my computer, I tried all of them too.
   
   My DAC, AMP and headphones are with me for more than 8 months, and I know their sound as I use them almost every single day. This new cable is not going to make me want to change any of them to solve the issues *it* brought to my system. It is far easier and less expensive to replace this cable for another one that *improves what I was already listening*, not change it.


----------



## drez

Fair enough if that is the case, maybe Norse audio would be worth a try.  Personally I can't recommend the Neo D+ Class A -after a [brief] comparison today I found that although the treble was less prominent - it was also less clear and muddier (again possibly bacuse of lower perceived volume) and I also found an issue with the center soundstage imaging in my system, as well as general tone of things like mid-tom hits and strings.  Then again I am using LCD-2 with original canare wire, NFB-10 ES, AGD DI with Oyaide silver coax and the GT-2.  Mostly supposedly bright equipment but paired with a dark headphone - but I still find the treble shelved back - so I'm guessing the equipment is still fairly neutral (previously I found it bright before about a million tweaks.)  I will wait to see how it sounds with a bright headphone (RS1i is coming back from repair...)  Anyway I digress, the GT2 relatively speaking appears to have more treble energy than the copper D+ I have on hand however my comparison was hardly thorough so take it with a grain of salt.  All the same it remains [electrically taped] in place in my system.


----------



## somestranger26

I do not think the GT2 is causing harsh highs, but revealing system flaws. My system has smooth, extended highs with no harshness using the GT2.


----------



## Sganzerla

Some pages ago someone said something about the Teralink-X2 Power Supply DC Silver Cable.
  I got one today and I think everyone should try it, it is very cheap, and very worthwhile.


----------



## leeperry

sganzerla said:


> Some pages ago someone said something about the Teralink-X2 Power Supply DC Silver Cable.
> I got one today and I think everyone should try it, it is very cheap, and very worthwhile.


 

 Would you care being more precise please? I don't really believe in snake oil AC power cables(especially when there are such long distances of cheap wire going betwen you and your power grid), but indeed a "better"(as in "less attenuation and better shielding from EMI/RFI") cable between a DPS and a device could/would/might make sense 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Personally I've rolled the two cables going between my two DPS and my two audio devices into ferrites, not that I could hear any difference hehe ^^
   
  I also agree on USB cables drastically changing the sound of the Tenor chip....I've tried quite a bunch of them before settling down to one I would enjoy.


----------



## Sganzerla

I don't know if this is the exactly place to post something about the changes some cables may bring to a system, because I know this is controversial and people begin to fight for no reason. But here the sound is more "organic" and smoother, specially in the highs. Even for its construction, I think it is a good upgrade over the stock cable that came with my unit.
   
   You could say something about your experience with USB cables here, if it is pertinent to the DI topic, or at least through PM to me.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Would you care being more precise please? I don't really believe in snake oil AC power cables(especially when there are such long distances of cheap wire going betwen you and your power grid), but indeed a "better"(as in "less attenuation and better shielding from EMI/RFI") cable between a DPS and a device could/would/might make sense
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Kind of surprised you're skeptical about AC power cables, but you're a believer in USB cables. Power cables can have just as surprising of an effect, in my experience (have never tried on the DI though, just DAC/amp), and don't need to break the bank (there's plenty of cheap DIY designs). I wouldn't recommend ferrites for any audio applications since they slow down the conduction speed of the cable.
   
  I have one of these DC cables on order, because $9.60 is nothing if it improves the sound quality at all. Baird GoW on here got one and also said it made a big difference, especially in tightening/refining the bass though I haven't had a chance to try it. I don't even think the Teralink DC cable is shielded, since people were discussing a good way to shield it a few pages back. The stock one is supposed to be silver-plated copper and the Teralink one is 99.99% silver.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

I just ordered one as well. Even if there is no change in sound, for $10 can't really go wrong. At least the cable looks nice and well built. 
   
  I find that putting a good power cable on the DI is just as important as the source. If the DC cable further improves upon, that would make it even better.


----------



## drez

Ordered also - longer chord might be useful.  Also tried the aluminium tape - works pretty well in terms of installation.  Looks a bit stupid but it satisfies my paranoia.
   
  Might order one of these  to feed the OMILEX and cut off the power connection to the PC (from the OMILEX).  Not sure if it would help much though if it's still using the PC as a ground, and my PC is hardly CMp spec.


----------



## K3cT

Quote: 





uelover said:


> The Furutech GT2 Cable is really transparent and detailed. If there is any harshness it will be due to your system, not the cable's fault.
> 
> Try Wireworld Starlight. It is warmer.
> 
> (Note: I am not going to start a digital cable war here so those who thinks that USB cable doesn't make a difference, I respect your opinion)


 


  The black Formula 2 is the real deal.


----------



## svyr

drez said:


> Ordered also - longer chord might be useful.  Also tried the aluminium tape - works pretty well in terms of installation.  Looks a bit stupid but it satisfies my paranoia.
> 
> Might order one of these  to feed the OMILEX and cut off the power connection to the PC (from the OMILEX).  Not sure if it would help much though if it's still using the PC as a ground, and my PC is hardly CMp spec.




>EUR 89 EUR + 19,00 EUR shipping costs²

That sure seems reasonable ... For a wall wart with a usb socket bypass thing.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





k3ct said:


> The black Formula 2 is the real deal.


 


  The Formula 2 is the entry level USB cable by Furutech. Not sure how it sounds like but most of us managed to get the GT2 at a price lower than the Formula 2 which is a no brainer.


----------



## K3cT

Quote: 





uelover said:


> The Formula 2 is the entry level USB cable by Furutech. Not sure how it sounds like but most of us managed to get the GT2 at a price lower than the Formula 2 which is a no brainer.


 


  I got it for cheap and yes, it's better than the GT2. Cheaper and better, what more you'd ask?


----------



## majkel

Quote: 





log0 said:


> Hello All,
> I've been meaning to write about my experience with the DI. I purchased a DI about a month ago, version B with the added power supply to mate with my Reference One DAC. I thought the DI would be a good match for the Reference One.
> 
> My setup: iMac using Audirvana > Furutech GT2 USB cable > DI with power supply > BNC cable > Reference One.
> ...


 



 Have you tried the DI with another DAC, possibly not audio-gd or the reference 1 with another digital source? I did once on the meeting, actually trying the DI for the first time. I comapred it to a coax output of a well pimped CD player by which I mean PSU, clocks, EMI screening, coax output build, dampers, etc. to make it an ultimate transport, and a plain coax output from an onboard PC sound card. Let's get it straight - the DI was one of the worst digital outputs I have ever tried. Any cheap USB to S/PDIF converter was better because it has never been the case I have heard something harsh from my DACs. The sound was very limited regarding the soundstage, holography was hardly any or none and the sound was messy. The onboard sound card of my friend's PC was something in between the CD player and the DI. The sound started to open while still being limited, and it was pleasant. What I heard from the CD player was unlimited and open soundstage, full, three-dimensional sonic pictures, absolutely no harshness, the feeling of the sounds flowing in the air, possible to tell the direction of their journey, overall completeness. Squeezebox Touch is something much more versatile than the DI and giving significantly better digital signal yet with the stock PSU and operating via wifi.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





k3ct said:


> I got it for cheap and yes, it's better than the GT2. Cheaper and better, what more you'd ask?


 

 Mind elaborating? I find that hard to believe, since the GT2 was a marked improvement over the Wireworld Ultraviolet. If sganzerla wants to try a lesser quality USB cable since he thinks that's the problem, I'd recommend looking at the ones made by Pangea Audio -- OCC copper conductors for $30 is a steal.
  
  Quote: 





uelover said:


> The Formula 2 is the entry level USB cable by Furutech. Not sure how it sounds like but most of us managed to get the GT2 at a price lower than the Formula 2 which is a no brainer.


 


  Well, the guy selling the GT2s was also selling the Formula 2s at bargain bin prices.


----------



## log0

Quote: 





majkel said:


> Have you tried the DI with another DAC, possibly not audio-gd or the reference 1 with another digital source? I did once on the meeting, actually trying the DI for the first time. I comapred it to a coax output of a well pimped CD player by which I mean PSU, clocks, EMI screening, coax output build, dampers, etc. to make it an ultimate transport, and a plain coax output from an onboard PC sound card. Let's get it straight - the DI was one of the worst digital outputs I have ever tried. Any cheap USB to S/PDIF converter was better because it has never been the case I have heard something harsh from my DACs. The sound was very limited regarding the soundstage, holography was hardly any or none and the sound was messy. The onboard sound card of my friend's PC was something in between the CD player and the DI. The sound started to open while still being limited, and it was pleasant. What I heard from the CD player was unlimited and open soundstage, full, three-dimensional sonic pictures, absolutely no harshness, the feeling of the sounds flowing in the air, possible to tell the direction of their journey, overall completeness. Squeezebox Touch is something much more versatile than the DI and giving significantly better digital signal yet with the stock PSU and operating via wifi.


 



 I have not tried the DI with another DAC, I really don't have any others. I put all my eggs in one basket when I picked up the Ref One. I'm pretty limited in my equipment being on a budget. My only major complaint with the DI + Reference One combo is the harsh highs which becomes fatiguing after a while. I did find, as someone in this thread suggested, that changing out my Furutech GT2 cable with a cheap monoprice cable did reduce the harshness at the expense of the frequency extremes. I have not done a lot of A/B'ing to clearly state this, just my initial impression after listening to a couple songs, mostly Jimi Hendrix.
   
  As far as soundstage goes, I thought the DI + Reference One combo threw a pretty deep and wide soundstage when hooked up to my speakers. My headphones being LCD-2s, I think they naturally do not have wide soundstage, at least that is the general consensus I read and it's been my experience, although the soundstage is very deep.
   
  Funny you mention the squeezebox, one of the reviews of the DI said it was a great pairing with the coax output of the squeezebox to reclock the signal and reduce jitter. I guess not everyone hears the same thing.
   
  I will say this, the more I listen to the Playstation 1 the more I fall in love with it's sound. Very smooth and analog. This is not a rip on the DI + Reference One, just an appraisal of the Playstation 1. It's just horribly inconvenient to have to listen to CDs any more when there are tons of FLAC files on my hard drive and great music services such as Grooveshark and Spotify.


----------



## kp93300

Hi all,

A while back i read about dropout of the DI with sabre chip. Has this problem been solved other by upsampling ?
I have a Buffalo 2 with IVY iii output and is also looking for for a USB to i2s or spdif out converter.
Can someone point me to the link regarding tapping the i2s signal out of the digital interface ?
thanks 

kp93300


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





majkel said:


> Have you tried the DI with another DAC, possibly not audio-gd or the reference 1 with another digital source? I did once on the meeting, actually trying the DI for the first time. I comapred it to a coax output of a well pimped CD player by which I mean PSU, clocks, EMI screening, coax output build, dampers, etc. to make it an ultimate transport, and a plain coax output from an onboard PC sound card. Let's get it straight - the DI was one of the worst digital outputs I have ever tried. Any cheap USB to S/PDIF converter was better because it has never been the case I have heard something harsh from my DACs. The sound was very limited regarding the soundstage, holography was hardly any or none and the sound was messy. The onboard sound card of my friend's PC was something in between the CD player and the DI. The sound started to open while still being limited, and it was pleasant. What I heard from the CD player was unlimited and open soundstage, full, three-dimensional sonic pictures, absolutely no harshness, the feeling of the sounds flowing in the air, possible to tell the direction of their journey, overall completeness. Squeezebox Touch is something much more versatile than the DI and giving significantly better digital signal yet with the stock PSU and operating via wifi.


 
  One meet told you all this- how many hours did you listen with it? Flies in the face of all the other, numerous users here that have had exceptional sound quality experiences with the DI I must say.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





svyr said:


> >EUR 89 EUR + 19,00 EUR shipping costs²
> 
> That sure seems reasonable ... For a wall wart with a usb socket bypass thing.


 


  When you put it like that
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Yes I have been talked out of that piece of junk.  Not to find a reasonably priced wall wart and see if I can run OMILEX with power cut from one of my USB A male to B male adapters.  I'm not expecting it to work but I'm bored enough to try.


----------



## majkel

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> One meet told you all this- how many hours did you listen with it? Flies in the face of all the other, numerous users here that have had exceptional sound quality experiences with the DI I must say.


 


  The differences were so obvious that it made no sense to listen more than two minutes per device. My friend had wished to not know which devices was which and after hearing two - the CD player and the DI, he told me which playback was from the PC, pretty disgusted while taking the headphones off. The player was foobar2000 1.1.4 and the PC was set up by a portable device software engineer so I believe he knows more than me in terms of communication via USB and adjusting foobar2000. There was just three of us at the end of the meet, silent as it can be at home. I'm not telling this is the whole truth about the Digital Interface but communicating my experience and saying that it might be bad.


----------



## kr0gg

of course, even a sucky CD-player will be better!
  DI is a good alternative to _other PC sources_, not a CD-player opponent.


----------



## tim3320070

I think we'll agree to disagree about whether a computer can sound as good as a CD player. I feel it does with the DI as I have done a lot of testing.


----------



## Sganzerla

I took a look at Pangea USB cable some time ago after my initial findings with the Furutech GT2, the bad news is the last time I placed an order at Audio Advisor, they refused to sell items to me because of international fraud or something like this, even after I sending a picture of the credit card billing to them. I was buying the Pangea Power Cables...
   
   I'm almost sure I'll try the USB cable from the same company I bought this DC cable, the Belkin that is already coming home and maybe the WireWorld Starlight too. It is a matter of time... after this I may try the Oyaide D+ (the one I found with good price has no item in stock) and Pangea, if I find a seller willing to ship internationally.


----------



## somestranger26

So I decided to try out my Audio-GD power cable with the DI power supply since I haven't been using my filter lately (sounds better direct). Compared to a cheapo stock cable I noticed a definite increase in the texture and depth of the sound. I noticed very little difference with the power supply before, but this change was quite noticeable (did a couple quick A/B with the opening of Nolitus by ES Posthumus). I am definitely looking forward to getting that upgraded DC cable now.


----------



## drez

Just did a bit of playing around with the OMILEX USB isolator.  I cant get it to work with the A to B adapter in which I removed the +5V pin, neither with only ground setting on my USB controller card, and the DI PSU fed into the OMILEX on both these setups.  The DI power indicator lights up, but the DI isn't detected by my PC.  In my listening tests I found results interesting - with PSU fed into OMILEX the soundstage collapses a little - vocals are closer and have a little more bloom and warmth, and images of instruments that were hitherto precisely located became more vague and unreliable.  This is of course my own anecdotal comparisons and could by all means be affected by expectation bias, however this is the second round of comparisons in which I have come to this conclusion.  I am not qualified to hypothesise about what is the cause of this however as a straightforward way to improve the sound of the OMILEX --> DI setup I am currently doubtful of the efficacy.  I might try a second power supply to power the isolator to see if that improves things, but I don't see how we can get around the whole "power connection is needed for hot plug" issue.


----------



## realmassy

My experience with USB isolator is different: when I tried the USB2ISO the soundstage was more diffuse and less focused. Initially I thought it sounded good, now I'm not entirely sure of it. I think it depends on the rest of the rig, as I liked it more with the WA3 + DT880 than with Stax.
  I'm not using the Audio-GD DI but the Halide Bridge though. I got the Olimex last week, but I had no time to test it yet.


----------



## drez

Well I just did a quick comparison (perhaps not a welcome one) between straight USB and with the OMILEX USB isolator.  The OMILEX is a lot better than the other aMG isolator I tried but still whether or not it brings an improvement is a matter of opinion.  It certainly does little harm to the sound reproduction - imaging is still fairly accurate - but small details like the echo of a room seem to be smeared a little.  Concurrently the treble is a little smoother and less incisive also.  So I have spend $400 odd on USB tweaks and ended up back at square one, save for the Furutech GT2 USB cable.  Money well spent?  Well perhaps not as this would have bought me a John Kenny HiFace, or any number of other gears, and saved me a lot of effort and stress testing this gear and trying to troubleshoot the DI's dropouts problem.


----------



## nsk1

Did anyone hear differences between usb input and coax input from motherboard soundcard on PC?


----------



## leeperry

drez said:


> Well I just did a quick comparison (perhaps not a welcome one) between straight USB and with the OMILEX USB isolator.  The OMILEX is a lot better than the other aMG isolator I tried but still whether or not it brings an improvement is a matter of opinion.  It certainly does little harm to the sound reproduction - imaging is still fairly accurate - but small details like the echo of a room seem to be smeared a little.  Concurrently the treble is a little smoother and less incisive also.


 

 Agreed on all accounts, this dongle sounds much better than the USB2ISO or @MG IME. I see what ADuM4160 does to the Tenor chip to be much like upsampling...it doesn't sound better per se, just different. And once the new toy syndrom has worn out, you just sell it and move on ^^
   
  Bu as usual it's a synergy story more than anything else, and if you're from team NO-EQ, then the tamed down trebles can be a good thing for headphones use...for a while, at least.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

All of these issues just highlights how difficult it really is to get USB to perform at a standard level across all hardware/software platform combinations. Maybe a new thread listing hardware/software combinations that are known to give excellent performance (from USB) would be more useful as a baseline resource with which to work from reducing costly mistakes. Of course the other option (for desktops at least) is to avoid USB altogether, buy a HQ SC with a COAX/BNC SPDIF output to connect directly to your DAC SPDIF input...simple, elegant and far less expensive and less detrimental to the fragile digital data stream.
   
  Just my 2 cents FWIW.
   
  As for the member having issues with the 40 yr old receiver trying to drive LCD-2's properly...well I'd have to say the old receiver might be having issues with the level of current the planar mag based cans require from the built in head amp, number 2 if the unit is 40 years old it's _*highly likely*_ a number of parts have drifted off spec, caps have dried out/ gone bad etc...and,possibly, the output level of the DI/RE1 might be overloading the input stage of the old receiver....those older units used to see no more than 2 V max as a line level input...the RE1 may be delivering above that (say 2.5 V ). The last technical point is likely a long shot with the most likely issue facing the old receiver being a complete overhaul to bring it back into "like new" operating spec which may also improve the head amp section at the same time. My advice is to see if the receiver could be rebuilt locally by a competent tech for a reasonable sum (say 500 USD or so) or sink that money into a new HQ preamp/head amp combo. The Phoenix would be an ideal choice for the DI/RE1 source while allowing for tube power amps to run the speakers (something I have done with my own ref system and it's match made in heaven with planar mag speakers). The RE1/Phoenix is a great unit when run through ACSS connections then onto the LCD-2's (in balanced mode). That harshness you now hear is due to the receiver and not the DI/RE1 combo. The RE1 is anything but harsh.
   
  Peete.


----------



## kr0gg

finally, i have received an answer from Olimex:
   
  >> Hi Igor
 >>
 >> If you connect external PSU(9-15VDC) to USB-ISO PWR-JACK, then the PSU
 >> will supply power to USB HOST connector and on board isolator.
 >>
 >> Best Regards
 >> /OLIMEX
 >>
   
  as i understand, that means that connecting an external PSU substitutes the power sucked from PC.


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> finally, i have received an answer from Olimex:
> 
> >> Hi Igor
> >>
> ...


 
  Yes
  I tried it yesterday, with a 6V, 500ma PSU, and honestly I couldn't spot any difference.


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





realmassy said:


> Yes
> I tried it yesterday, with a 6V, 500ma PSU, and honestly I couldn't spot any difference.


 

 sure. because your PC usb port provides 5v, 500ma
  DI's recommended specs are DC7V/400ma and you should also keep in mind that 500ma from the USB port sometimes are not enough to feed both DI and Isolator.
   
  so there actually shouldn't have been much difference in your case.


----------



## realmassy

True, it makes sense.
  I'm not using the DI but the Halide Bridge, but I was curious anyway to try the usb iso with a different power source. I was expecting to find some differences, because many say the USB power is not clean etc etc.


----------



## log0

Perhaps this question has been asked already, but when using the DI with a Mac OS, what is the proper volume setting? Is it 50%, or is there a way to pass through the volume to not allow the OS to control it? I normally have my volume set to 100% but when I set it down to 50% and controlled the volume with my amp some of the harshness I heard was gone.


----------



## leeperry

kr0gg said:


> >> If you connect external PSU(9-15VDC) to USB-ISO PWR-JACK, then the PSU
> >> will supply power to USB HOST connector and on board isolator. [..]
> 
> as i understand, that means that connecting an external PSU substitutes the power sucked from PC.


 

 Yup, but it goes through a BD9001F switched regulator...your choice which one is more evil ^^
   
  Oleg was supposed to release a linear regulated dongle(read his comment at the bottom of the page), but that's still in the works AFAIK.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





realmassy said:


> Yes
> I tried it yesterday, with a 6V, 500ma PSU, and honestly I couldn't spot any difference.


 


> True, it makes sense.  I'm not using the DI but the Halide Bridge, but I was curious anyway to try the usb iso with a different power source.* I was expecting to find some differences, because many say the USB power is not clean etc etc.*


 

 I wouldn't expect any differences out of a switching-mode power supply when that is what is powering your USB ports and they add massive amounts of noise and ripple to the power. Also, not sure why you're commenting on sonic changes when you don't own a DI and that's what the thread is about; ergo most people are using the class A linear power supply that Audio-GD sells.


----------



## drez

I think the point leeperry was making is that the problem is the power supply on the isolator itself, not which power supply is feeding the input to the isolator.  This probably also explains why I didn't find improvement feeding DI power supply through the OMILEX USB isolator.  Either way I hunted down a 12V 400 mA linear wall wart to power the isolator -  but the sound is still less focussed, detailed and articulation of transients is reduced a little (for example on vocal tracks small transients are almost impossible to hear with the isolator).  Maybe with a fully linear power supply things would improve, but I am personally surprised how many CMP project ppls use these isolators.


----------



## somestranger26

I have pretty much the opposite experience using the isolator. More detailed, more focused, broader and more encompassing soundstage, better dynamics and transient response, etc. I was testing various configurations of the DI earlier and reaffirmed my belief that the AGD power supply sounds best into the olimex, in fact this is the only time I could hear a definite improvement with the power supply. I don't think the switching isolator is anything to worry about, but something that could be improved upon like that inline linear psu he linked.


----------



## drez

I mean this could be the case but in the ideal world a system would be better if it didn't need an isolator - all it can do is remove RF interference from the data lines, and at the same time AFAIK it must increase the rise time of the USB signal.  So you are swapping random jitter for deterministic jitter.  I am similarly suspicious of the BNC atennuators I have ordered - which in theory reduce signal reflections, but also definitely increase the rise time of the SPDIF signal.  Personally I think it would be better to tackle the problem at the source rather than add another piece of equipment to try and fix the original problem (eg. maybe run external power supply into motherboard and CPU, although again this might be a case of solving a problem that is not actually there in the first place.)  Or I might just give up and get a mac mini as a music server, or build a CMP system to complicate things further...


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> I wouldn't expect any differences out of a switching-mode power supply when that is what is powering your USB ports and they add massive amounts of noise and ripple to the power. Also, not sure why you're commenting on sonic changes when you don't own a DI and that's what the thread is about; ergo most people are using the class A linear power supply that Audio-GD sells.


 

 I wasn't posting about the DI, but about the OLIMEX isolator, which was talked about a few posts ago. Can't I give my opinion on it?
  By the way, the PSU I tried is a linear regulated, not a switching one.


----------



## nsk1

Can someone who has DI ver. A, motherboard soundcard and is using desktop PC tell me if there's a difference between usb and coax input?


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





realmassy said:


> I wasn't posting about the DI, but about the OLIMEX isolator, which was talked about a few posts ago. Can't I give my opinion on it?


 

 We're talking about Olimex + DI. The combination of gear certainly matters. Several people have been posting that they like the PSU connected to Olimex using the Digital Interface. That you can't tell a difference using a different interface isn't really relevant to this thread. Also, most of the people using random PSUs mean crappy switching mode ones so I made a bad assumption.


----------



## cynan

Speaking of PSUs, has anyone tried using battery packs as a PSU with the DI? The cheapest, simplest option might be a 6 AA (NiMH) rechargeable battery pack. This should produce around 7V or just over - which is what Kingwa recommends.
   
Maybe something like this?
   
  Sorry if this has already been addressed.


----------



## macrog

The digital Interface power supply is 5 volts and 6 x 1.5 batteries in series is 9 volts (significantly over spec).
   
  Yes battery power would be interesting to explore though. I have considered LIPOs and will certainly try them on my Audiophellio 1's when they arrive.
   
  Regards
   
  Macrog


----------



## cynan

Audio-gd states that any PSU between 5V-10V will work and recommends 7V. 5V just happens to be the voltage of a standard USB power rail.
   
  6 Alkaline AA batteries in series will output ~9V when fully charged. However, the rechargeable NiMH (Sanyo Eneloops, etc) batteries put out a bit less voltage (around 1.2 instead of 1.5V), giving around 7.5V or a bit less for 6 in series - right on the money according to Audio-gd. I'm not sure that LiPOs are necessary here; they might be overkill. The DI seems to require only 300 mA (or maybe a bit more) given the specs on the Audio-gd page. this means you'll probably get a good 5-6 hours or so on a fully charged, relatively fresh set of  NiMH AAs. The increased current output capability and energy density of LiPOs seems wasted here. Like LiPOs (and unlike Alkaline and lead-acid), NiMH has a relatively flat discharge curve (maintain a more constant voltage over discharge cycle).
  
  Quote: 





macrog said:


> The digital Interface power supply is 5 volts and 6 x 1.5 batteries in series is 9 volts (significantly over spec).
> 
> Yes battery power would be interesting to explore though. I have considered LIPOs and will certainly try them on my Audiophellio 1's when they arrive.
> 
> ...


----------



## macrog

My error regarding digital interface PSU sorry. Yes you are right 7v 400ma
   
  Regards
   
  Macrog


----------



## Topaze

I am sorry if this has been answered before, but I would like to ask whether there is a way to eliminate a short playback delay (about half a second or so) at the beginning of new tracks that Digital Interface sometimes causes.
   
  Here's my system: PC (foobar) - DI - Ref. 7 - AT-HA5000 - ATH-W5000


----------



## Tom W

Quote: 





macrog said:


> The digital Interface power supply is 5 volts and 6 x 1.5 batteries in series is 9 volts (significantly over spec).
> 
> Yes battery power would be interesting to explore though. I have considered LIPOs and will certainly try them on my Audiophellio 1's when they arrive.
> 
> ...


 

 LiPO's can be very dangerous (fire) when charging and/or when they get wet. LiFE's are generally thought to be much safer but take note that the voltage per cell is a little different than LiPO.
   
  LiPO's are also easily damaged if they are allowed to drain down too far before recharging.
   
  Just throwing this out there....


----------



## cynan

Quote: 





tom w said:


> LiPO's can be very dangerous (fire) when charging and/or when they get wet. LiFE's are generally thought to be much safer but take note that the voltage per cell is a little different than LiPO.


 

      And really fun things happen when you short them out! (I did this once indoors and it blew up - but luckily it was a very small one, so no fire or damage - just don't breathe in the fumes..)
   
      Yeah, I think LiFe are around 3.3 volts per cell where as LiPO are around 3.7 volts per cell.
  Quote: 





tom w said:


> LiPO's are also easily damaged if they are allowed to drain down too far before recharging.


 
   
  Yup. So are Lead-Acid (which is why you need to buy a new car battery if you leave your lights on overnight more than a couple of times). The reason why this doesn't happen with the LiPOs in cell phones, computers, etc, is because they have a built in control board that only lets them discharge down to a certain voltage (like around 3.2V from 3.7V).
   
  So no one's tried the DI with batteries?


----------



## somestranger26

I still think dropouts are related to power supply somehow. I was getting virtually no dropouts while home during the summer, and up at school now I'm getting an aggravating amount.


----------



## soke

I just received a DI myself eventually!
   
  I was very eager to try it but unfortunately it must have been hit during transfer and it's got a problem. It only outputs 1 channel of audio! I only get sound from my left speaker.
   
  I ve sent an email to Kingwa but wanted to ask you guys here as well if you ve got any ideas.
   
  Here's the mail I wrote :
   
  ....
   
  I'm using the DI with an NFB-12 and this occurs both with headphones and
 with speakers (HP out and Variable Out). Tried with other cables,
 other sources, nothing. It's the DI.

 I opened it up to see if there were any cables that were cut or pulled
 off, but couldn't see anything like that.
 What i noticed was that the usb input (the part that's IN the box) was
 a little flimsy and it's back cap was a little off. I pushed it gently
 back in and tried to see if that would solve the problem but it
 didn't. When I plug the usb cable, it's pushed back. I also plugged
 the usb cable and holded it with my finger so that it won't be pushed
 and it stayed closed, but still no sound from the right speaker.

 Any ideas?
 I have a friend with soldering and DIY skills generally which I'll be
 meeting next week. Should i give him any specific instructions to fix
 it if I can't?


 I also have another problem with my NFB-12 and a defected screw. I
 tried to open it from above, to set  the jumper to allow Fixed output,
 but one of the screws won't unscrew no matter how hard i try. Instead
 of unscrewing, the screwdriver is digging in the screw and ruining its
 shape! Would you know any way to unscrew that thing?
 It's silly but its really hard to find a solution for it!
 Would the variable output with volume knob full open be the same as fixed??
   
   
   
  Sorry for the huge post but I'd be really thankful if anyone could help!


----------



## Mad Max

That sucks hard when you mess up a screw.  I can only suggest pressing the screwdriver down really hard, or if the screw is slightly out, then use pliers to twist the screw until it comes out completely.


----------



## uelover

Quote:  





> It only outputs 1 channel of audio! I only get sound from my left speaker.


 

 Please check the output setting on your computer.
   
  When I first plugged in mine, it also outputs on one side only because the left-right balance setting was panned totally to the left.


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





soke said:


> I just received a DI myself eventually!
> 
> I was very eager to try it but unfortunately it must have been hit during transfer and it's got a problem. It only outputs 1 channel of audio! I only get sound from my left speaker.
> 
> ...


 
  You may need to drill it out which is much more simple that it sounds if you have a drill and bits of the proper size.


----------



## ninjikiran

first thing I would suggest you do on all gear out of China is replace the screws.  Although all of the components inside are great, the screws are absolutely HORRIBLE, you will notice some will hold better than others and others might  **** near strip the first time you use them.
   
  Actually on my NFB-2 when I was putting in the DIR9001 Spdif Receiver I ended up stripping one of the screws and had to mac guyver it out.  Which resulted in a a very slight cosmetic blemish(a little scraped paint)
   
  Only unit from China that I have toyed with that had decent screws was the mav D1, and thats because hex screws are sexy when it comes to not being able to easily strip.  In the event you somehow did you can easily use some pliers.


----------



## Mad Max

Quote: 





ninjikiran said:


> first thing I would suggest you do on all gear out of China is replace the screws.  Although all of the components inside are great, the screws are absolutely HORRIBLE, you will notice some will hold better than others and others might  **** near strip the first time you use them.
> 
> Actually on my NFB-2 when I was putting in the DIR9001 Spdif Receiver I ended up stripping one of the screws and had to mac guyver it out.  Which resulted in a a very slight cosmetic blemish(a little scraped paint)
> 
> Only unit from China that I have toyed with that had decent screws was the mav D1, and thats because hex screws are sexy when it comes to not being able to easily strip.  In the event you somehow did you can easily use some pliers.


 

 Assuming that the casing doesn't have holes so the hex screws can nearly fit flush with the rest of the casing.  =X


----------



## sesshin

Quote: 





ninjikiran said:


> first thing I would suggest you do on all gear out of China is replace the screws.  Although all of the components inside are great, the screws are absolutely HORRIBLE, you will notice some will hold better than others and others might  **** near strip the first time you use them.
> 
> Actually on my NFB-2 when I was putting in the DIR9001 Spdif Receiver I ended up stripping one of the screws and had to mac guyver it out.  Which resulted in a a very slight cosmetic blemish(a little scraped paint)
> 
> Only unit from China that I have toyed with that had decent screws was the mav D1, and thats because hex screws are sexy when it comes to not being able to easily strip.  In the event you somehow did you can easily use some pliers.


 


  What was your Macguyver technique if you don't mind me asking? I stripped a screw trying to open the case and am at a loss on how to get it out.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





ninjikiran said:


> first thing I would suggest you do on all gear out of China is replace the screws.  Although all of the components inside are great, the screws are absolutely HORRIBLE, you will notice some will hold better than others and others might  **** near strip the first time you use them.
> 
> Actually on my NFB-2 when I was putting in the DIR9001 Spdif Receiver I ended up stripping one of the screws and had to mac guyver it out.  Which resulted in a a very slight cosmetic blemish(a little scraped paint)
> 
> Only unit from China that I have toyed with that had decent screws was the mav D1, and thats because hex screws are sexy when it comes to not being able to easily strip.  In the event you somehow did you can easily use some pliers.


 

 how hard is it to put in the dir9001 receiver?


----------



## ninjikiran

Opening and closing the case was more work, the spdif receiver is secured by a single screw inside of the NFB-2 and theres only a single way to put it in due to this. 
   
  Removing it is as simple as removing the screw, popping it out.  Popping the new one in, screwing it down.
  
  Quote: 





drez said:


> how hard is it to put in the dir9001 receiver?


 


  Mac Guyver, Pliers, a small hack saw.  Just don't ruin your case, I got a little bit of scraping on the paint but the casing is otherwise undamaged. Took patience as well and I forgot my exact rhythm to get it out.
   
  I lack power tools though, using a drill would of been MUCH easier with the right bit.


----------



## drez

Sweet thanks for the instructions I might have to check which one I have inside my NFB-10 ES.


----------



## K3cT

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Mind elaborating? I find that hard to believe, since the GT2 was a marked improvement over the Wireworld Ultraviolet. If sganzerla wants to try a lesser quality USB cable since he thinks that's the problem, I'd recommend looking at the ones made by Pangea Audio -- OCC copper conductors for $30 is a steal.


 


  If the Ultraviolet is on the warm side while the GT2 is on the bright side, then the Formula 2 is somewhere in the middle. I think Belkin Gold is unbeatable as far as budget USB cables are concerned.
   
  Seriously though, swapping USB cable should be the last *last* last thing you buy.


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





drez said:


> Sweet thanks for the instructions I might have to check which one I have inside my NFB-10 ES.


 

 Your NFB-10ES's SPDIF receiver is built inside the ES-9018 DAC chip.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





borrego said:


> Your NFB-10ES's SPDIF receiver is built inside the ES-9018 DAC chip.


 

 hmm forgot that, thanks.


----------



## leeperry

and there's no point in going DIR9001 if they also provide a WM8805 board.


----------



## HaVoC-28

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> and there's no point in going DIR9001 if they also provide a WM8805 board.


 


  Well in the NFB-2/3 thread many prefer DIR9001 over WM8805 .  At least A-GD offer the choice so it's fine


----------



## Baird GoW

Ok people I found what causes my dropouts and it is... whenever certain light switches in my house are turned off. I know, sounds ridiculous, but its true. Try it I'd love to know if anyone else can cause dropouts by doing the same thing.


----------



## svyr

that's fairly normal for older houses... you flick a light switch, and the voltage sags or spikes (you can usually see the effects on your tv skipping a beat as well).... pretty sure drez had the same problem.


----------



## drez

Indeed I do.  Not a simple or cheap problem to fix - also risks being sucked into power tweaking


----------



## svyr

well, if a power conditioner/regen unit fixes it, that's probably cheaper than new wiring / separate line... plus there's literally nothing on the regen unit, except for the dac/transport plugged in (no mains power things like vac cleaner, kettle, fridge  ) esp if each socket is isolated/handled separately...

which brings us to the question - does the lite unit you have fix it?r than new wiring / separate line... plus there's literally nothing on the regen unit, except for the dac/transport plugged in (no mains power things like vac cleaner, kettle, fridge  ) esp if each socket is isolated/handled separately...

which brings us to the question - does the lite unit you have fix it?


----------



## dyl1dyl

Im probably going to get this to use with a Schiit Statement amp/dac combo with lcd 2.2s, so will post impressions when i get everything in.


----------



## dyl1dyl

Quote: 





dyl1dyl said:


> Im probably going to get this to use with a Schiit Statement amp/dac combo with lcd 2.2s, so will post impressions when i get everything in.


 


  Actually, will post impressions on this with the Schiit Lyr earlier once i get the Audio-gd in.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





svyr said:


> which brings us to the question - does the lite unit you have fix it?


 


  Hmm will have to power up the aircon to test this.  I tried running the PC off an extension lead from another circuit but the stabilty was pretty bad (20 meters of 20 year old extension chord...)
   
  Not sure what I am going to do about me nearfield monitors though...


----------



## svyr

drez said:


> Hmm will have to power up the aircon to test this.  I tried running the PC off an extension lead from another circuit but the stabilty was pretty bad (20 meters of 20 year old extension chord...)
> 
> Not sure what I am going to do about me nearfield monitors though...




they're usually a 20-200w  ?


----------



## drez

I think they're about 70 W maximum - probably within the capability of the power regenerator - just needs a couple of power boards.


----------



## somestranger26

Argh, I've tried just about everything to get rid of dropouts in my apartment (<10yo construction...) and nothing works. I even enabled upsampling and just got a dropout... I wish there were some special drivers or something to deal with this crap.


----------



## drez

Batteries


----------



## somestranger26

Batteries for what, the power supply or the computer? I'm thinking about installing a cmp-esque stripped down W7 on my laptop and running it off batteries, though it'd be rather inconvenient compared to my desktop and I've already spent hours tweaking it (disabling devices, uninstalling drivers, changing bios settings, modifying multimedia class scheduler settings, changing usb polling rate, you name it).


----------



## Alexdad54

FWIW, some users of the the Sabre ES-9018[size=x-small]-[/size]based DAC's report issues with drop-outs in thier systems with some claiming that this chip is very sensitive to jitter (there is a thread on this on A'gon).  It may be that the DI just passes on too much jitter for this chip?
  In my personal experience I have used my DI with both an Eastern Electric Minimax DAC and my Havana DAC but when using the EE Minimax/DI combo, I was  plagued constantly with drop-outs, the Havana not once. The DI was being fed very clean power as well.
  This was with both of my pc-based systems, one an optimised down W7 netbook system, the other a Linux-based system. I had to return the Minimax (and to be honest, it was too bright-sounding for me anyway on my system to bother with trying to change the USB/SPDIF converter).


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





alexdad54 said:


> FWIW, some users of the the Sabre ES-9018[size=x-small]-[/size]based DAC's report issues with drop-outs in thier systems with some claiming that this chip is very sensitive to jitter (there is a thread on this on A'gon).  It may be that the DI just passes on too much jitter for this chip?
> In my personal experience I have used my DI with both an Eastern Electric Minimax DAC and my Havana DAC but when using the EE Minimax/DI combo, I was  plagued constantly with drop-outs, the Havana not once. The DI was being fed very clean power as well.
> This was with both of my pc-based systems, one an optimised down W7 netbook system, the other a Linux-based system. I had to return the Minimax (and to be honest, it was too bright-sounding for me anyway on my system to bother with trying to change the USB/SPDIF converter).


 

 I tried my Eastern Electric Minimax with a $40 CD player via coaxial and never once did I experience a dropout. I do experience dropout with direct USB input whenever light switches in my home are on/off but not even once with Stello U3. Thus, I think that the dropout problem is more related to power than jitter.
   
  EDIT: Not forgetting to mention that the ultra high jitterish optical output from my mac suffers zero dropout rate as well.


----------



## muad

has anyone had intermittent issues with static? I recently just moved to another city and now whenever my laptop goes to sleep and comes out of hibernation the music is full of static. If I unplug and then plug in the USB from the DI the static is gone and the sound is perfect! I never had this issue last week before I moved...
   
  any ideas?


----------



## Kingwa

A good article for improve on USB audio playback.
   
    http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/KB/USB.html


----------



## OPrwtos

guys, will i really tell the difference in sound with the upgrade clock on the Digital interface?


----------



## Currawong

The upgraded clock is only for upsampling, if you intend to use it.


----------



## OPrwtos

Quote: 





currawong said:


> The upgraded clock is only for upsampling, if you intend to use it.


 

 i knew i should have posted that i will use 24/96 lol


----------



## OPrwtos

but will i really tell any difference? or is it subtle and only experienced listeners can tell?


----------



## HaVoC-28

read this post  (there is 172 pages but if you take your time you will find the rights answers (multiple choice) .
   
  from what i read here : some like upsampling and seams that the upgrade clock bring some improvement after burning time (or brain training) . 
   
  other prefer without any upsampling , the only way to know it's trying yourself : / 
   
  personnaly i don't like upsamling ,conversion is not really perfect (not using integers like oversampling) . 
   
   
  exemple :
   
  for my case i finaly tryed out a E-MU 0404 (pci-e) as S/PDIF transport in addition to a auzen forte and my motherboard (foobar with wasapi ) 
   
  (i tryed aslo asio for my auzen and e-mu , and seams asio was a slightly warmer than wasapi and finaly prefering using wasapi for all the testing) . 
   
  Conclusion : after carrefully testing over some days , all sound the same , only placebo some times ... And i don't hear difference using USB too . 
   
  But i can easely hear difference beetween digitial filters in NFB-2 ... peraphs DI or another usb/spdif transport will bring an improvement but i am really wondering about that don't want to spend money for nothing  .


----------



## tim3320070

I have noticed an improvement to my ears with the new clock, it is subtle but enjoyable (like the singer is a step closer to you, hard to describe). The DI definitely improves upon the built-in USB of AGD equipment in my experience.


----------



## OPrwtos

meh, thx for your thoughts guys..i think ill just stick with the digital interface (version B) (without upgrade clock) dont need anymore than that.
  To hook up with the nfb-10se


----------



## petemac110

Quote: 





oprwtos said:


> guys, will i really tell the difference in sound with the upgrade clock on the Digital interface?


 


 Why not try a different hex inverter as discussed elsewhere in this thread? They are cheap and easy to swap out. I'll be trying a SN74AHC04N and SN74AHCU04N in the very near future. Their specs suggest that they are around 10 times 'faster' than the standard hex inverter. The 'AHC' is the new equivalent of the older 'VHC', and the 'ACHU' is the unbuffered version of the 'AHC'.


----------



## OPrwtos

hm, eh cant be botherd for that


----------



## petemac110

It's no more difficult than the tcxo change that you were enquiring about, plus any changes in the sound will be there regardless of whether you use upsampling or not.


----------



## OPrwtos

its just ordering that item from places is the long part lol


----------



## melancholic

I recently bought a DI to work with my NFB-10. But I find that the sound sometimes stopped for a short time (about 0.5s), especially when playing games.
   
  Did anyone else have such issue?


----------



## HaVoC-28

Quote: 





melancholic said:


> I recently bought a DI to work with my NFB-10. But I find that the sound sometimes stopped for a short time (about 0.5s), especially when playing games.
> 
> Did anyone else have such issue?


 


  drop out ? hum allready seen in this thread i think  , Are you using your DI  without resampling ?


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





melancholic said:


> I recently bought a DI to work with my NFB-10. But I find that the sound sometimes stopped for a short time (about 0.5s), especially when playing games.
> 
> Did anyone else have such issue?


 
   
  Try searching. It's about the #1 most discussed thing in this thread. You will never eliminate dropouts in games your computer struggles to run already. Older ones should not have a problem.


----------



## HaVoC-28

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Try searching. It's about the #1 most discussed thing in this thread. You will never eliminate dropouts in games your computer struggles to run already. Older ones should not have a problem.


 


  and with another usb/spdif converter no prob ?


----------



## drez

Upsampling seems to be necessary - also improves imaging, but the DI demands lots of PC tweaking to get the best sound.


----------



## melancholic

Oh, I failed to realize that the problem is named "dropout" in English.
   
  When I'm merely listening to music, the dropouts happen every 10 minutes on average. In lucky days there are no dropouts. But when playing games, the gap between dropouts is less than 20 seconds. And I am just playing old games such as Starcraft.
   
  Seems upsampling can fix it? I'll have a try.


----------



## somestranger26

I've gotten dropouts with upsampling before.
   
  After much optimization to my computer, I only get one every day or two. You probably have a lot of background processes and software running in the background causing the dropouts to be so frequent. Kingwa posted a guide to help with them not far back in this thread, but there's almost endless optimizations you can make. Some changes, such as setting the USB polling rate to 5ms can even improve the sound quality slightly.
   
  When playing intensive games like Deux Ex:HR and Battlefield BC2, I get them every few minutes but that's just the CPU trying to juggle rendering the graphics and handling game mechanics while outputting audio.


----------



## drez

Hey somestranger26 can you point me to a good method of changing polling rate?


----------



## somestranger26

http://www.cicsmemoryplayer.com/index.php?n=CMP.07Optimisations All the way at the bottom. I've done most of these optimizations (and gone considerably further) to get dropouts under control. Bonus effect of improving sound quality.


----------



## melancholic

It seems that the dropout problem is almost solved by upsampling to 96KHz.


----------



## petemac110

/img/forum/go_quote.gif  
  

  Quote: 





rhythmic_impulse said:


> I'm not sure if this has been discussed within the thread, but has anyone tried the no-change setting without the clock in the socket?
> 
> I was testing between the stock clock, a Vanguard TCXO and a Tentlabs XO for the upsampling. In the end I preferred without upsampling. Since Kingwa said the clock is not used in the no change setting, I took out the clock. Surprisingly there seems to be some difference in the sonic and I wonder if there's any influence the clock has in the socket and without. I tested all three clock in the socket in the no-change setting. There were perceptible changes in the sound with each clock having a subtle impact on the sound. In the end, I found that no clock in the socket turns out to provide the most transparent and clean output signal to the DAC. Details and ambient information are a lot more noticeable without any clock in the socket. I thought Kingwa said the clock isn't used when not upsampling but it seems to have an effect on the signal.


 


 I tried removing the standard clock today, and noticed that it affected the imaging in my system. Note that I don't have a headphone rig - I have a restored Sansui AU-517 dual mono amp, Squeezebox Touch, audio-gd DI, audio-gd NFB-3 and Dynaudio speakers. When I removed the clock, rather than having a strong centre image for vocals, the vocals were spread out/smeared across the sound stage, and it was easier to locate the speakers. They sounded 'boxier' - with the clock in place, the speakers did a better job of disappearing.
   
  I'm not sure what is the cause of this, but for the time being, the standard clock will be left in place in my system. Still tossing up whether to get a different TCXO - Valab, Vanguard (either 1ppm or 0.3ppm gold) or audio-gd. I've also got a  few hex inverters arriving late next week for experimentation.


----------



## somestranger26

Wow. I guess removing the clock does make a difference (improvement from what I'm hearing). Seems pretty strange that it changes the sound when the clock "isn't used" when not upsampling.


----------



## petemac110

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Wow. I guess removing the clock does make a difference (improvement from what I'm hearing). Seems pretty strange that it changes the sound when the clock "isn't used" when not upsampling.


 

  
  Yeah, tell me about it!
   
  I should say that's not a massive difference - to my ears, the overall sound quality and definition was virtually the same with the clock installed vs the clock removed. The change in the imaging/sound stage was the really noticeable part.


----------



## Currawong

There are measurements showing the NFB-12 with a lower noise floor and more dynamic range with 96k up-sampled music, so it might be an idea to get the better clock and leave the DI set to up-sample to 96k.


----------



## Baird GoW

I personally like the clock more... I feel that it takes away from the impact of the bass on the HE-6. I can tell without the clock there is more precision and more detail but to me the trade off is not worth it imo.


----------



## petemac110

Quote: 





petemac110 said:


> . Still tossing up whether to get a different TCXO - Valab, Vanguard (either 1ppm or 0.3ppm gold) or audio-gd. I've also got a  few hex inverters arriving late next week for experimentation.


 


 Further to my above comment, I note that the DI provides 3.3V for the standard clock. However, most of the TCXOs seem to be 5V (Vanguard 1ppm and 0.3ppm, Valab 1ppm etc).  The information on the website for the tentlabs XO suggests a power supply of 5V for the XO, but mentions a range of 3.3v to 5v in the specs.
   
  Do the Vanguard or Valab TCXOs definitely work OK with the DI? It would seem that a few people have tried them, but there's not a lot of follow-up comment indicating that they work fine aftert plenty of use.
   
  So... if you're using a 5V specc'd TCXO in your DI, please post with an update!
   
  Worst case scenario I guess I could always just grab an upgrade 3.3V TCXO direct from audio-gd.


----------



## petemac110

After being overwhelmed with the number of replies to my question above (hehe   ) I've decided to play it safe and go for a Tentlabs XO. Looking forward to trying this in conjunction with the two different types of high-speed hex inverters that I've ordered - one buffered, one unbuffered. I'd absolutely LOVE if these tweaks can elevate the performance of the DI to within spitting-distance of the Audiophileo etc. Time will tell!


----------



## punk_guy182

Is there anything considerably better out there than the TCXO upgrade module from Audio-GD?


----------



## somestranger26

No TCXO is best TCXO .


----------



## petemac110

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> No TCXO is best TCXO
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Not in my experience... removing the standard XO (pretty sure it's not a TCXO  - the temperature controlled oscillators are the larger rectangular form-factor units like the audio-gd upgrade, the Valab, the Vanguard etc) was a backwards step in terms of imaging in my setup (speakers, not headphones). The strong central vocal image disappeared. Reinserting the standard XO fixed things up.
   
  Looking forward to hearing the Tentlabs XO soon!


----------



## petemac110

Well, the hex inverters have arrived!
   
  I've currently installed the 74AHC04N buffered unit, and will try the 74AHCU04N unbuffered unit soon. First impressions are that there is slightly improved resolution and detail, and a less warm sound. I really need some extended listening time, then I will refit the original unit to gauge the difference.
   
  Still waiting to hear back from TentLabs regarding my XOs. They were prompt to reply to my initial queries, but I have received no replies to my emails since paying for the order, nor any status updates. Hopefully I will hear something soon.


----------



## hawkhead

I doubt you will - they were shockingly bad when I placed my order - I had to chase them several times
  Quote:  





> Still waiting to hear back from TentLabs regarding my XOs. They were prompt to reply to my initial queries, but I have received no replies to my emails since paying for the order, nor any status updates. Hopefully I will hear something soon.


----------



## petemac110

Guido has been in conctact with me, indicating that the XOs were sent earlier this week, and apologising as he's been busy preparing for an audio show tomorrow. Hopefully they arrive soon!


----------



## elwappo99

Anyone have links to the drivers mentioned in this thread?


----------



## Tini

Hi Borrego,
   
  I have read your post about your DI and the 4310s, 4 dropouts every once and again.
  I have the same problem using KS, Wasapi or Asio with Foobar and I'm curious if you already had solved the problem. Do you use the power suply or the USB power?
   
  Because I know a little off computers I already did a lot to solve the problem:

 New clean W7 X64 install with only Foobar and plugins
 Settings W7 on high performance
 All automatic updates off, automatic play on devices off
 Energy saving off (also on all USB ports)
 Camera, fingerprint etc. off in Bios
 Bios upgrade
 Al not important task in sceduler disabled
 Tried all settings in Foobar with different drivers
   
  I'm very happy with the sound so I want to keep using the DI.
   
  Regards,
  Tini
   
   
   
  Quote: 





borrego said:


> If you are using foobar or J. River MC, another thing you can try is to increase the loading of the player such that the computer spend more time on it. How? Install the VST plug-in component in foobar (or J. RIver MC) and load at least 1 VST DSP plug in. If you want to remain neutral, just pick an EQ plugin and set a flat EQ curve.
> 
> Although I experience dropout using foobar playing 16/44 audio using the DI, I have never, (repeat) NEVER experienced drop out ever once when using foorbar + DVD audio plug-in to play 24/96 DVD audio through the DI. And you should know playing high resolution DVD audio is supposedly more demanding on the computer and DI. In my case the DVD is a 4.7GB file virtually mounted as a drive using PowerISO shareware.
> 
> I think it is part of the fun using computer as source component.


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





tini said:


> Hi Borrego,
> 
> I have read your post about your DI and the 4310s, 4 dropouts every once and again.
> I have the same problem using KS, Wasapi or Asio with Foobar and I'm curious if you already had solved the problem. Do you use the power suply or the USB power?
> ...


 

 Recently I have been experiencing much less drop out with the DI (i.e. 1 every 2-3 hours of listening). I don't know if it is because of any new Windows 7 updates, or I have uninstalled the Motorola Android Phone USB driver and switched to LG Android Phone USB Driver, or because I have installed the Android SDK ADB driver, or whatever things I have done over the period.
   
  The fact that I don't use my notebook purely for music replay makes it difficult if not impossible for troubleshooting. Just say I am satisfied with the performance of the DI now.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> Anyone have links to the drivers mentioned in this thread?


 


  anyone help me out ?


----------



## borrego

elwappo99 said:


> anyone help me out ?




The DI works with Windows 7/Vista, Mac OS built-in driver. If you are looking for Windows XP ASIO driver, do a google search on "teradak x2 asio".


----------



## petemac110

Quote: 





petemac110 said:


> Guido has been in conctact with me, indicating that the XOs were sent earlier this week, and apologising as he's been busy preparing for an audio show tomorrow. Hopefully they arrive soon!


 


 The Tentlabs XOs have finally arrived!
   
  I've only had a brief listen so far, but first impressions vs the standard XO are quite positive. There seems to be noticeably better depth and separation in the music, and it just 'flows' better.
   
  I'll need to rack up many more hours and then perform some further comparisons against the standard XO and also with upsampling disabled.


----------



## somestranger26

For anyone that is using the USB isolator with the DI, I'd recommend you use this adapter http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003D3NFDK which is far higher quality than the only other one I've found http://www.amazon.com/USB-Type-Male-Adapter/dp/B002B9AR8I/ -- these are all over but suck. The former has gold plated pins and much more solid build quality (also a lifetime warranty) while the latter has horrible build quality (mine broke after a couple months) and uses nickel plated pins and the cheapest internal solder one could imagine.
   
  Not only do the USB connections have less strain with this adapter, but the sound quality also seems marginally improved.


----------



## Tini

Hi Borrego,
   
  I ordered the PSU for the DI and I bought a new pc because I'm so sick of listening to dropouts.......
 I'll let you know if I have still dropouts with my new pc when it arrives.
  I'm convinced the problem is the 4310S and I suspect it's the power on the USB. Have you tried external power on the DI?
   
  Regards,
  Tini
   
   
   
  Quote: 





borrego said:


> Recently I have been experiencing much less drop out with the DI (i.e. 1 every 2-3 hours of listening). I don't know if it is because of any new Windows 7 updates, or I have uninstalled the Motorola Android Phone USB driver and switched to LG Android Phone USB Driver, or because I have installed the Android SDK ADB driver, or whatever things I have done over the period.
> 
> The fact that I don't use my notebook purely for music replay makes it difficult if not impossible for troubleshooting. Just say I am satisfied with the performance of the DI now.


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





tini said:


> Hi Borrego,
> 
> I ordered the PSU for the DI and I bought a new pc because I'm so sick of listening to dropouts.......I'll let you know if I have still dropouts with my new pc when it arrives.
> I'm convinced the problem is the 4310S and I suspect it's the power on the USB. Have you tried external power on the DI?
> ...


 


  I am using an external PSU (non audio-gd). I actually find the HP 4310S has a very sensitive shock sensor which would suspend hard drive with the slightest shock. Anyway I am using the Dell D520 more often for music playing and the other day I used a system cleanup software cleaning the windows registry, prevented a Teradak X2 driver file being loaded and it seems the dropout went away on the D520.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





tini said:


> Hi Borrego,
> 
> I ordered the PSU for the DI and I bought a new pc because I'm so sick of listening to dropouts.......I'll let you know if I have still dropouts with my new pc when it arrives.
> I'm convinced the problem is the 4310S and I suspect it's the power on the USB. Have you tried external power on the DI?
> ...


 


  Have you set to upsample - no matter what I tried the only thing that stopped dropouts was upsampling..


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





drez said:


> Have you set to upsample - no matter what I tried the only thing that stopped dropouts was upsampling..


 


  If upsampling on the DI itself fixes the dropout, it may be the transmission between the DI and the DAC and has nothing to do with the PC side.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





uelover said:


> If upsampling on the DI itself fixes the dropout, it may be the transmission between the DI and the DAC and has nothing to do with the PC side.


 


  To be honest as you say its not really the computer - I would love to try the DI on a dedicated music server (coming soon) just to see whether it still gets dropouts.
   
  Sure, optimise the OS within reason, but unless you have a spare computer you can mess about with, I would just upsample to 96khz and be done with it.  
   
  Sounds quite nice too when set to upsample to 96khz -  and trying to get the DI to work without upsampling will send you to an early grave.


----------



## uelover

My DI sounds best without upsampling.
   
  Luckily during the period of my ownership I did not face a single dropout problem =)


----------



## drez

So no dropouts with a sabre dac? - there goes that theory lol.
  I've heard mac USB is pretty good (read: unproblematic) for audio - could be that also.
  I tried everything down to a SoTM USB controller card and still got dropouts, but I have the [masochistic] joy of using a PC.
  Also tried USB atennuators to reduce the SPDIF voltage, tried USB isolators - all wasted effort.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





drez said:


> So no dropouts with a sabre dac? - there goes that theory lol.
> I've heard mac USB is pretty good (read: unproblematic) for audio - could be that also.
> I tried everything down to a SoTM USB controller card and still got dropouts, but I have the [masochistic] joy of using a PC.
> Also tried USB atennuators to reduce the SPDIF voltage, tried USB isolators - all wasted effort.


 

 I was using StageDAC back then. I heard there DI will have dropout issues with Minimax though.
   
  I believe the DI is too jittery to begin with and thus will have problems with Sabre DAC.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





uelover said:


> I was using StageDAC back then. I heard there DI will have dropout issues with Minimax though.
> 
> I believe the DI is too jittery to begin with and thus will have problems with Sabre DAC.


 


  I think theory is that DI SPDIF output is a bit un-square - so if it feeds straight into sabre chip = not so good.
  Beats me on how upsampling (AFAIK making signal more sensitive to eye opening size of SPDIF signal already noted to be an issue) fixes this though.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





drez said:


> I think theory is that DI SPDIF output is a bit un-square - so if it feeds straight into sabre chip = not so good.
> Beats me on how upsampling (AFAIK making signal more sensitive to eye opening size of SPDIF signal already noted to be an issue) fixes this though.


 
   
  No idea. Absolutely.


----------



## FauDrei

drez said:


> I tried everything down to a SoTM USB controller card and still got dropouts, but I have the [masochistic] joy of using a PC.
> Also tried USB atennuators to reduce the SPDIF voltage, tried USB isolators - all wasted effort.




If you have two USB sticks and half hour of time to spare I suggest the openELEC.tv experiment.


----------



## Patu

uelover,
   
  Do you find Stello U3 to be much better converter than DI? I'm sorry if you've already replied to this question but it's been a long time since I've followed this thread. I'm currently considering alternatives for my DI + PSU combo. 
   
  Btw. I bought a new keyboard for my PC a while ago. Logitech Illuminated keyboard with USB-connection. It's probably the best keyboard I've ever used but to my disappointment, I can't use it on my PC. It causes unexplained distortion to the sound of my setup. Sound is awfully distorted every now and then when I open my PC and start playing music with foobar2000. I guess this has something to do with the keyboard's feature's like illuminated buttons. It probably draws to much power from my old motherboard's USB-output (about 4-5 years of age now). Sometimes it helped to switch the USB-port but last time when I finally gave up, nothing helped. I had to buy some cheapo keyboard which sucks in use.
   
  I'm not sure if this has anything to do with DI. Have anyone else had similar problems with other USB-devices?


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





patu said:


> uelover,
> 
> Do you find Stello U3 to be much better converter than DI? I'm sorry if you've already replied to this question but it's been a long time since I've followed this thread. I'm currently considering alternatives for my DI + PSU combo.


 
   
  Hey Patu,
   
  I have generally find the Stello U3 to be a significant improvement over the DI + PSU combo. It is very resolving, neutral and balanced. In direct comparison, the DI sounded veiled and a little muddy.
   
  Furthermore, the DI is sensitive to the USB cable you use but the Stello U3 is not.
   
  Retails for around USD400 here. I think it is an excellent buy both performance-wise and price-wise.


----------



## Patu

Quote: 





uelover said:


> Hey Patu,
> 
> I have generally find the Stello U3 to be a significant improvement over the DI + PSU combo. It is very resolving, neutral and balanced. In direct comparison, the DI sounded veiled and a little muddy.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well this is interesting. Somehow I just thought about the U2 which has been around for some time now. It never got my attention but this U3 looks much better. I must ask for a demo unit from my local dealer.


----------



## MorbidToaster

So from what most people are saying about the Marantz SA8004 (my next planned purchase) the Coax sounds better than the USB (DAC wise). 
   
  Would this be a good in between from my PC to the SA8004? Seems like a good idea.
   
  USB (24/96) > DI (Upscaling to 24/192) > SA8004 (Coax) > Cavalli LF > LCD 2?
   
  This seems like a decent purchase as it will hold me over until I can afford my Zodiac+...


----------



## petemac110

Sounds good to me!
   
  If you're intending to upsample, I would strongly suggest grabbing either the audio-gd upgrade clock or a Tentlabs XO. The upsampling performance is noticeably better with the Tentlabs unit. Swapping the hex inverter for a 'faster' unit is also a worthwhile tweak for only a few dollars.
   
  I have a friend with a completely standard DI so I will try to undertake some subjective back-to-back listening comparisons with my tweaked DI over the coming weeks.


----------



## MorbidToaster

I was probably going to order it 'maxxed' if you will. The extra PSU and clock. It's a cheap enough unit and the Zodiac+ is expensive enough to where I'd want it to be as good as I can have until I get the cash for the Zodiac as it will take some time.
   
  EDIT: Or W4S DAC1
  
  Quote: 





petemac110 said:


> Sounds good to me!
> 
> If you're intending to upsample, I would strongly suggest grabbing either the audio-gd upgrade clock or a Tentlabs XO. The upsampling performance is noticeably better with the Tentlabs unit. Swapping the hex inverter for a 'faster' unit is also a worthwhile tweak for only a few dollars.
> 
> I have a friend with a completely standard DI so I will try to undertake some subjective back-to-back listening comparisons with my tweaked DI over the coming weeks.


----------



## petemac110

I thought I'd provide an update on my DI.
   
  The Tentlabs XOs arrived early last week. It was technically on-time, but the communication from Tentlabs was frustratingly poor.

 After installing the Tentlabs XO, in my opinion I find that it certainly improves the upsampling performance vs the standard unit - it is less edgy and sounds more... dare I say... 'musical' than the original XO. If you're using the DI in upsampling mode, the Tentlabs XO or a 3.3V-tolerant TCXO is an absolute must-have in my opinion.

 The different hex inverters make a subtle yet noticeable difference to the performance of the DI too. In the pics below, the new inverter chip is the one with the little Texas Instruments logo on it - the unbuffered unit. I also have the same chip but in buffered format so that I can see if there is any percievable difference between the two. Splitting hairs comes to mind! The difference between the standard unit vs the faster 'A' units (whether buffered or unbuffered) is certainly more tangible.

 Hopefully I will be able to do some back-to-back listening with a completely standard DI during the next month or so. This should identify whether the changes are as tangible as I feel they are. It's always hard to quantify performance gains when you don't have a 'control' unit to compare against.

 I also grabbed a silver power cable from A&B Systems on ebay (the cable is meant for the TeraLink X2, but it fits the DI too). For $9 I figured why not - even if it is only bling.

 Lastly, I fabricated a perspex lid for the DI, and will do a similar one for the power supply which features some small cooling/ventilation holes. The power supply gets bloody hot! The jury is still out regarding whether I like the clear lid or not... it certainly shows off the guts of the DI quite nicely, but it may add a certain 'cheapness' to the look of the unit. I'm unsure at this stage... I will see what I think after a little while.


----------



## Gilst

Hi. There's a slight problem with my DI.
  Seldom, while beginning to play a new song, the sound balance would travel half way left and stay there.
  I've checked the balance settings, but they seemed OK.
  Turning ON/OFF or switching source forth and back seems to solve the problem, but I'm looking for a more permanent solution, or rather a source of the problem.
   
  I searched the thread but couldn't find anything relevant.
   
  I'm using Win XP SP, on foobar2k and ASIO.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## kr0gg

Gilst,
  this usually happens only when you switch  the DI on shortly after it was switched off, so it's kinda strange that in your case channel imbalance happens while it is already working.
  i would suggest checking your power cables connection, etc. - anything that might be the reason for unexpected turnings on/off.


----------



## Sganzerla

Does anyone have any recomendation about hex inverter models I should buy/try?
   I bought the copper DC cable from A&B Systems too, as soon as it arrives I'll say something about its sound compared to the silver version I already have.


----------



## attenuated 3db

Quote:


petemac110 said:


> I thought I'd provide an update on my DI. ....
> 
> ... Lastly, I fabricated a perspex lid for the DI, and will do a similar one for the power supply which features some small cooling/ventilation holes. The power supply gets bloody hot! The jury is still out regarding whether I like the clear lid or not... it certainly shows off the guts of the DI quite nicely, but it may add a certain 'cheapness' to the look of the unit. I'm unsure at this stage... I will see what I think after a little while.


 
   
  Nice photography.  Have you experienced any apparent problems with EMI or RFI interference with the non-metal lid?  Having a high-frequency clock oscillator circuit that was designed to operate inside a heavy-duty metal enclosure might expose it to some shielding-related problems with the clear lid.  If you are not having problems, do you want to quote a price for clear lids for us other DI owners?  I think the silver Teralink power supply cable_ is _"bling," but the clear lid is bling for bling's sake.


----------



## MorbidToaster

I'd be up for that. I love seeing guts of stuff. 
   
  Oh, I'm a new owner of a DI. Bought one used from a member on head-fi. Maxxed, too. Excited. New toy.
  
  Quote: 





attenuated 3db said:


> Quote:
> 
> Nice photography.  Have you experienced any apparent problems with EMI or RFI interference with the non-metal lid?  Having a high-frequency clock oscillator circuit that was designed to operate inside a heavy-duty metal enclosure might expose it to some shielding-related problems with the clear lid.  If you are not having problems, do you want to *quote a price for clear lids for us other DI owners?*  I think the silver Teralink power supply cable_ is _"bling," but the clear lid is bling for bling's sake.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





petemac110 said:


> The Tentlabs XOs arrived early last week. It was technically on-time, but the communication from Tentlabs was frustratingly poor.
> 
> After installing the Tentlabs XO, in my opinion I find that it certainly improves the upsampling performance vs the standard unit - it is less edgy and sounds more... dare I say... 'musical' than the original XO. If you're using the DI in upsampling mode, the Tentlabs XO or a 3.3V-tolerant TCXO is an absolute must-have in my opinion.


 


  Any links for purchase? I found their site based in Europe. Any resellers in the US?


----------



## petemac110

Thanks for comments gents.
   
  Unfortunately I'm not in a position to be able to manufacture these in bulk.
   
  I had a local perspex/acrylic supplier cut these for me (I measured the original lid at 116mm x 152mm) and I drilled the holes myself. Drilling the holes accurately proved to be very tricky... perspex can be hard to work with at times. I needed to enlarge or elongate a few of the holes to make the lid fit properly.
   
  I've had the lid off my DI for some time now whilst experimenting with the different hex inverters, different upsampling settings and now the new clock. I have noticed no ill effects in my system.
   
  I was going to fit one of these lids to the PSU but I first decided to contact Kingwa and ask whether this was a good idea. Kingwa confirmed that the lid formed part of the 'heat sinking' for the transistors in the PSU, so fitting a perspex lid would reduce the thermal mass of the heatsink. Not good. Anyhow, the inside of the PSU isn't as nice to look at as the DI, so it's no great loss.
   
  Regarding US sources for Tentlabs gear, I have no idea. I sourced mine directly from Tentlabs in the Netherlands.
   
  Regarding hex inverters, if you can source a 74VHC04, 74AHC04 or 74AHCU04, these are worth trying. They are faster versions of the original hex inverter, and the 'U' model is the unbuffered version (slightly faster response yet again, but with a slightly less 'square' output).


----------



## kr0gg

can you comment SQ differences between these hex inverters?
  knowing that some are faster and some are slower doesn't tell me anything about their impact on sound


----------



## petemac110

My initial impressions are that the faster AHC buffers offer a bit more detail than the original unit, and give a slightly crisper sound. I'm not talking about massive differences... I feel that the changes are noticeable yet subtle. .
   
  Kingwa has said that the original unit was chosen after testing many different inverters as audio-gd felt that it offered a slightly warmer, less digital sound. To be able to cement my opinions I need to switch back to the original hex inverter and see how it sounds after a month of the new unit. I've been hesitant to switch back too early, particularly as I'm giving myself some time to get used to the sound of the Tentlabs XO first. Once I have some more listening hours under my belt (a one week old child has thrown a spanner in the works!) I will go back to the standard unit and see what the perceived differences are vs the faster inverters.


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





petemac110 said:


> My initial impressions are that the faster AHC buffers offer a bit more detail than the original unit, and give a slightly crisper sound. I'm not talking about massive differences... I feel that the changes are noticeable yet subtle. .


 

 My experience with the TI 74AHC04 hex inverter is it will give deeper, and more layered sound stage as well. It is quite obvious with good recordings. You may prefer the "warmer" sound of the slower chip, but once you get used to the more 3D sound stage you would never go back.


----------



## Sganzerla

Well, thanks for the info.
   I bought from eBay a product exactly like the one in the picture with the original hex inverter 74HC04P, without the "A" letter.
   I couldn't find any AHC there, unfortunately.


----------



## petemac110

Quote: 





borrego said:


> My experience with the TI 74AHC04 hex inverter is it will give deeper, and more layered sound stage as well. It is quite obvious with good recordings. You may prefer the "warmer" sound of the slower chip, but once you get used to the more 3D sound stage you would never go back.


 
   
  Yeah, that's my general impression too. I'm hesitant to draw firm conclusions until I switch back to the standard unit for comparison (it's all too easy to get swept up with hyperbole otherwise). Once I've done this, I'll post further throughts.
   


  
  Quote: 





sganzerla said:


> Well, thanks for the info.
> I bought from eBay a product exactly like the one in the picture with the original hex inverter 74HC04P, without the "A" letter.
> I couldn't find any AHC there, unfortunately.


 


  
  This is exactly the same specification as your standard hex inverter. You need an AHC/VHC inverter if you want to see any change in performance
   
  You need to purchase these from an electronics supplier instead. Depending upon where  you are located, try someome like Farnell/element14, RS Components/Newark, Mouser, DigiKey etc.


----------



## Sganzerla

Xit!
  I think I should have removed the top cover before trying to understand the picture above...
  Fortunately was only a few bucks...
   
  Thanks again, will look for an alternative place instead of eBay.


----------



## MorbidToaster

I got mine in the mail today. It's bigger than I imagined it being. 
   
  Anyway...has someone posted a tutorial on how to set this up properly via OSX? I'm on my first Mac so it's a little confusing to me.  I knew my way around my PC for this sort of thing. 
   
  Also...I have the device but nothing to use it with yet. lol


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> I got mine in the mail today. It's bigger than I imagined it being.
> 
> Anyway...has someone posted a tutorial on how to set this up properly via OSX? I'm on my first Mac so it's a little confusing to me.  I knew my way around my PC for this sort of thing.
> 
> Also...I have the device but nothing to use it with yet. lol


 


  When connecting to your Mac, make sure that you just plug the device into the USB port and leave it as it is (because there is nothing else to set up after that)


----------



## MorbidToaster

No need to change any of the settings for it to work properly...? Inputs outputs?
  
  Quote: 





uelover said:


> When connecting to your Mac, make sure that you just plug the device into the USB port and leave it as it is (because there is nothing else to set up after that)


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> No need to change any of the settings for it to work properly...? Inputs outputs?


 


 No.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Finally got in my SA8004 and I'm trying to get my DI to work so I can use it. I plug it in USB but no audio comes out and iTunes doesn't even want to play a song at all. I remember having a similar problem on my PC with iTunes when the computer doesn't recognize the device as an output device...
   
  Anyone else experienced this problem? 
   
  EDIT: Works fine on my Bootcamp install of Windows 7 with no problems.
  EDIT2: Can't seem to find any reason it doesn't work on my Lion install...I've changed everything in the Sound settings menu and the MIDI setup menu. Nothing has made a bit of difference. It's bound to be some setting on the computer itself considering it works fine on Windows.
  EDIT3: Fixed it. Swapped USB ports. The USB port it was plugged into works but for some reason doesn't work with the DI. Odd.


----------



## darren700

Just Ordered the D.I. Ver B With Power supply. Also ordered a Olimex usb-iso isolator.
   
  just curious, do you guys with the PSU turn it off all the time when its not in use? Power switch is on the back (why!?) so it will be a bit of a pain to turn it off and on all the time...
   
  To those with the DI, PSU, and Olimex Usb-ISO Isolator, are you feeding power to the USB-ISO and if so with what? I read earlier in the thread that some were plugging the Audio-GD PSU right into the isolator instead of the D.I.? I am unsure which way would be best to set this up:
   
  1. Audio-GD PSU -> Olimex USB-ISO -> Digital Interface Ver B. -> NFB-3 --ACSS--> C2.2
  2. Olimex USB-ISO (USB Power, no adapter plugged in) -> Digital Interface Ver B. (Powered by A-GD PSU) -> NFB-3 --ACSS--> C2.2
  3. Olimex USB-ISO (find an adapter to power Olimex, Suggestions?) -> Digital Interface Ver B. (Powered by A-GD PSU) -> NFB-3 --ACSS--> C2.2
   
   
  should i even be worrying about feeding the isolator power? should i just connect the A-GD PSU to the D.I. and be done with it?
   
  Any advice is greatly appreciated.
  Thanks.
  Darren


----------



## MorbidToaster

I left mine on overnight and while it gets a little toasty it really doesn't seem to ever get dangerously hot. My Yulong D100 got quite a it hotter and my Lyr was ridiculous. I don't think it'd hurt it...


----------



## Denys

Quote: 





darren700 said:


> Just Ordered the D.I. Ver B With Power supply. Also ordered a Olimex usb-iso isolator.
> 
> just curious, do you guys with the PSU turn it off all the time when its not in use? Power switch is on the back (why!?) so it will be a bit of a pain to turn it off and on all the time...
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Darren,
   
  I have two DI and I never power off the PSU (I love the blue led shining in the bedroom ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). As for the Olimex, I found a difference in sound by powering the Olimex with a power supply and the DI without the PSU. The way the Olimex is made it only let the data go through, and there's also a filter for the power supply plugged into the Olimex itself... (Hope this is clear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
   
  All to say.... Audio-GD DI -------> Olimex with Power supply----->NFB8 etc.... in the living room
   
  In the living room
   
  Audio-GD DI -------> REF5-------> WA6SE in the bedroom...... I will soon buy another Olimex cause the change in sound is worth it....
   
  The PSU for Olymex was bought at Staples..... A 5v is sufficient as per the Olymex rep here in Montreal told me.... I have it for about 6 months now and everything is fine.
   
  Hope this helps
   
  Denys


----------



## tim3320070

Guys, we're fighting wars over energy acquisition and consumption- turn the damn things off when not using them!


----------



## donluca

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> Guys, we're fighting wars over energy acquisition and consumption- turn the damn things off when not using them!


 

  
  +1
   
  In addition the DI's PSU works in Class A, which means it always runs at max consumption.


----------



## darren700

Quote: 





denys said:


> Hi Darren,
> 
> I have two DI and I never power off the PSU (I love the blue led shining in the bedroom !
> 
> ...


 

  
  Denys
   
  Thanks alot for your input, just wasnt sure which was was best to hook it up.
  Darren


----------



## borrego

For anyone who is interested, I have replaced the Audio-gd DI with the XMOS XS1-L1 USB Audio 2.0 Reference Board as my USB audio transport: http://www.head-fi.org/t/580996/xmos-xs1-l1-usb-audio-2-0-reference-design-async-usb-audio-transport-for-149


----------



## BoyNamedSue

Hey guys, catching up with the DI thread, and thinking of getting the olimex usb-iso between my DI and PC but confused about how to set it up. The description on the olimex website says:
   

USB_DEVICE connector: USB-A type to be connected to the PC USB host​
USB_HOST connector: USB-B type to be connected to a USB device e.g. JTAG, programmer, debugger etc.​

 To me, it sounds like description is saying the A type (flat rectangle) should connect with PC, while B-type (square shaped) should connect with USB device (i.e, the DI in my case). But this doesn't make sense to me, shouldn't it be the opposite where B side of Olimex is connected to PC and A side is connected to DI using a chain of standard USB A to B cables? ​  ​ Secondly, would there be any improvement with using two DI external PSUs to power both devices, versus only on the olimex?​  ​ Thanks in advance.​


----------



## kr0gg

you need 2 usb cables to connect the DI with Olimex isolator.
  so the connection chain will be:
  1) first: your PC (usbA), usb-cable  Olimex (usbB),
  2) then: Olimex (UsbA), usb-cable, Digital Interface (UsbB)


----------



## BoyNamedSue

Ok, that's what I thought - thanks for clarifying. My olimex is arriving tomorrow so excited to test if there will be an improvement. I also ordered a bunch of hex inverters from mouser that will try out. Mouser has both the olimex and hex inverters for those who want to save on shipping.


----------



## somestranger26

kr0gg's ordering is correct. I would recommend using a usb a male to b male  adapter instead of a cable for better sound quality. There are only 2 options from what I've seen and I use this one which I've found to be much better than these kind.
   
  I would stick with one power supply -- the digital interface one connected to the olimex.


----------



## BoyNamedSue

Yeah, will need to get one of these adapters - using cheap printer cable at moment. Tried out the olimex yesterday and there was noticeable difference right away, in my system and to my ears, of course. The sound seems to pop out more, especially the pheripheral/background sounds and the highs seem to extend further. At the same time, I am hearing more sibilance, and the sound seems to have lost a bit of weight/heft. I am wondering if the loss of weight is due to moving my DI PSU to the olimex instead of the DI. Overall, I like this addition to system.


----------



## darren700

Just received my Digital Interface and PSU.
   
  Hooked it up (with Olimex) and at first i was having a weird problem that was stated much earlier in the thread; the right was a little bit louder than the left, enough to throw off the balance of the singer to the right.
   
  I panicked! lol, tried all different configurations, no psu, psu into olimex, olimex into di with psu into di, etc. same problem. I finally tried it on my laptop, and was perfect... weird i thought..
   
  Anyways, i restarted my main rig computer, changed the USB ports and reset the Digital Interface. works fine now, no more problem.
   
  What? doesnt make sense, anyways, now that its working right, im happy, hopefully it stays that way!
   
  Final setup is:
  Usb --> Olimex (with DI PSU feeding it) --> DI --> NFB3 --ACSS--> C2.2 ---> D2000
   
  very happy with this combo, wont be changing it for a LONG time!


----------



## kr0gg

the problem has to do something with DI's buffer.
  it doesn't like being turned on shortly after being turned off.
  just wait about 5 minutes, turn it on and everything will be OK


----------



## darren700

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> the problem has to do something with DI's buffer.
> it doesn't like being turned on shortly after being turned off.
> just wait about 5 minutes, turn it on and everything will be OK


 


  Ok, thanks, i will keep that in mind if the problem comes up again.
   
  Just curious, do you guys upsample? I just left it at default, non-upsampled, just wondering what you guys run and why? Do you find the upsampling to provide a positive impact on 44k music?


----------



## MorbidToaster

I upscale because I have some music that's 24/176. Only option really if I want it at its full potential. 
  
  Quote: 





darren700 said:


> Ok, thanks, i will keep that in mind if the problem comes up again.
> 
> Just curious, do you guys upsample? I just left it at default, non-upsampled, just wondering what you guys run and why? Do you find the upsampling to provide a positive impact on 44k music?


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> I upscale because I have some music that's 24/176. Only option really if I want it at its full potential.


 

 If you want to listen to your music at 24/176 (its native rate), the more you should not upsample.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Sounds better with the DI upsample with my current set up. I won't worry about it once I get a real DAC.
  
  Quote: 





uelover said:


> If you want to listen to your music at 24/176 (its native rate), the more you should not upsample.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Sounds better with the DI upsample with my current set up. I won't worry about it once I get a real DAC.


 

 Then this has nothing to do with having high resolution files anymore. Upsampling just fixed everything at a specific sampling rate before the data are sent to the DAC. The final sampling rate could even be lower than your file's sampling rate, e.g., a 192khz file could also be 'upsampled' to 48, 88, 96, 176, 192khz respectively.
   
  My advise to everyone is to try both the upsampling and non-sampling mode to see which is your preferred option and not let the higher numbers mislead you to think that upsampling will surely sound better than non-upsampling.


----------



## MantisMU

Just ordered a DI with the PSU and upgraded clock. Should be here in a few days if the shipping is as quick as my NFB-3.1
   
  I run coax from my motherboard out and was initially going to run coax to the DI rather than USB. 
   
  Now I'm wondering is there any advantage to running USB to the DI rather than Coax?


----------



## haloxt

USB cables are cheap  and aren't considered to vary in sound quality as much as different coax spdif cables by most cable believers. I think usb is better than thin stock coax, but a little worse than decent gauge coaxial cables. If you don't have a decent digital coax cable, I'd suggest this: http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10236&cs_id=1023603
   
  Or audio-gd's digital coax cable, which is better but a little pricier.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> USB cables are cheap  and aren't considered to vary in sound quality as much as different coax spdif cables by most cable believers.


 

 I think the relative performance of each digital output depends on how well the implementation are on your mobo, cables aside.

  
  Quote: 





mantismu said:


> I run coax from my motherboard out and was initially going to run coax to the DI rather than USB.
> 
> Now I'm wondering is there any advantage to running USB to the DI rather than Coax?


 

 Since you already intend to run coax, you can easily pull off a USB cable from your printer and compare the USB performance against that of the coax on your own particular system. What you hear and what you like are more important than what other people say.


----------



## MantisMU

Quote:


> Since you already intend to run coax, you can easily pull off a USB cable from your printer and compare the USB performance against that of the coax on your own particular system. What you hear and what you like are more important than what other people say.


 

 I've got some spare heavy gauge coax cables so I'll do an A/B and see if there's any audible difference. 
   
  I guess using the coax input will bypass any possibility of getting the "drop outs" others have reported.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Just take special care when terminating your DIY digital cable...look up the best way to terminate it (using the jacks you have selected for the job) without introducing easily avoided mistakes which WILL effect the SQ of the finished cable. Try and find as close to 75 ohm jacks as you can...the COAX itself must be well made (solid copper core, not copper plated steel) and have a decent full copper screen coverage. HD cable is fine for this purpose. Beldon, Canare make some nice stuff that is easy to find and easy on the wallet. What kind of COAX do you have (as well as jacks) ?
   
  Peete.


----------



## MantisMU

Quote:


pricklely peete said:


> Just take special care when terminating your DIY digital cable...look up the best way to terminate it (using the jacks you have selected for the job) without introducing easily avoided mistakes which WILL effect the SQ of the finished cable.What kind of COAX do you have (as well as jacks) ?
> 
> Peete.


 

 I won't be making it up myself. I get most of my cables from a local Australian dealer:
   
  http://www.uglycable.com.au/ugly-ultra-premium-digital-coax-single-rca-cable.html
   
  They are priced well and sound great to my ears. I haven't had the chance to try any of the more expensive interconnects and am still skeptical of the benefit vs cost ratios.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





mantismu said:


> Quote:
> 
> I won't be making it up myself. I get most of my cables from a local Australian dealer:
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Oh OK... my bad.
  Good choice by the looks of it and the price is right. Funny name for the cable since it looks pretty darn good (cosmetics wise) to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
   
  Peete.


----------



## shokyy

I have a problem.
 I have been using hte DI with no problem but we had a power outage and now with the system up for some reason the driver on my windows 7 computer is corrupt now and it cannot recognize the DI.
 I uninstalled the driver, rebooted the machine, connected the DI to install the driver again but it is still corrupt.
 Help, I am without music 
 Thank you
 Ash


----------



## drez

Maybe try burson drivers? (worked for my DI at a meet with a burson owner)
   
  No idea where you can find them - maybe try burson thread


----------



## darren700

Quote: 





shokyy said:


> I have a problem.
> I have been using hte DI with no problem but we had a power outage and now with the system up for some reason the driver on my windows 7 computer is corrupt now and it cannot recognize the DI.
> I uninstalled the driver, rebooted the machine, connected the DI to install the driver again but it is still corrupt.
> Help, I am without music
> ...


 

 Did you try changing USB ports? i had the same problem at first but moving to a different port fixed it.


----------



## MantisMU

Quote: 





darren700 said:


> Did you try changing USB ports? i had the same problem at first but moving to a different port fixed it.


 

 This ^
   
  Mine wouldn't work until the 3rd USB port I tried!


----------



## MorbidToaster

Also this. Mine didn't work at all until I changed ports.
  
  Quote: 





mantismu said:


> This ^
> 
> Mine wouldn't work until the 3rd USB port I tried!


----------



## darren700

I just had the power go out here for a bit, and the exact same thing happened to me, i tried like 5 different usb ports before i found one that worked! the one it was plugged in before didnt work at all.. something is definately funky with the way the DI installs its drivers, works fine on my laptop everytime, but my main pc it seems too act up (Asus P6T Deluxe V1)


----------



## curiousmuffin

I just got my DI today and what the hell, baby. just what the hell. 
   
  This is a significant component upgrade.
   
  coming from a broken teralink I didn't think reclockers made such a difference but this one rewrites the book for me. 
  mp3s sound more vinyl like than I ever realized was possible. 
   
  now i wonder how good their clock upgrade is!


----------



## curiousmuffin

p.s. mine came with the upgraded tcxo clock without any request from me. 
  this was glued to the socket with yellow pvc glue- yuck,
   
  having fiddled around with the jumpers for a while, I can't decide which sound i like more
   
  bypass has a warmer yet dull sound
  jumper on at no-c & mmd1 is cleaner yet tad bit artificial. but surprisingly the dynamics seem to be better, which could be a trick perception due to blacker background/ better instrument separation. 
   
  Kingwa spoke of clock burn in time. any detail on that?
   
   
   
  edit: for now i prefer bypass + clock unsocketted. i seemed to have gained bit of transparency from plain bypass mode by taking out the clock altogether.


----------



## somestranger26

You should let it burn in for around 50-100 hours before you start trying to determine which sound you like best. You can do this easily by playing music but turning off your Dac/amp.


----------



## MikeW

can the A version be used for Coax input with USB power? or is the power supply required to use it as Coax?


----------



## drez

Only USB power is needed.


----------



## MikeW

so i can get the "A" version, use USB to power it, and use the COAX INPUT from a cd player/sound card/ etc


----------



## MikeW

So whats the word on USB/COAX any testing done for PC use?
   
  I have an X-Fi with COAX out, or i could hook straight into USB, which is better, reclock the X-fi signal or use USB? The x-fi is preferable for performance reasons (gaming, etc)


----------



## drez

some people prefer the recocked coax input, but its probably best to trust your own ears


----------



## aspenx

Just ordered a Digital Interface Version B with clock upgrade a couple of days back. A-Gd had acknowledge receipt of payment and says they'll be shipping soon.
   
  Question: What kind of DC supply does the DI take? Will want to fashion a DIY PSU (cos' the A-Gd solution is too expensive for me) if I can find the time...


----------



## aspenx

Oops. I got the answer to my question from the manual attached with the email reply.


----------



## MikeW

I know someone here is just dying to upgrade your Digital Interface to one of those fancy pants Audiophileo interfaces.. I can help! sell me your DI, PM me!
   
  This might seem obvious, and I don't know if it's been mentioned yet..
   
  For those who have drop-outs, and your runing a system with multiple hard drives, or like me a App/OS SSD and standard HDD for music..
   
  Make sure windows is not putting your music hard drive to "sleep" it will do this after about 45 minutes and cause a drop out as the disk powers back on and spins up. Especially if your music is on multiple hard drives, and you switch between them, like one playlist is on hardrive a and another playlist has musci on hardrive B, and now "b" is asleep from inactivity. Or this can even happen if you use Memory buffer in foobar and load up a massive .ape file that's an entire album in one file, foobar loads it into memory and then hard drive shuts down 30 minutes later from inactivity.


----------



## fourwed

I joined the party recently and waiting for my shipment.
   
  It is an eye opener to know that the hex inverter makes a difference. I will certainly find some of these inexpensive component for a try.
   
  Thanks all.


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Interesting to note that Audio-Gd introduced a new USB chip, the TE8802 for their latest product line and upgrade capability for certain products.    Perhaps it's just a matter of time before we will see a Digital Interface MKII or something similar for Audio-Gd to compete wiith the big boys....


----------



## Pacha

I'd love to see a new DI which would compete with Audiophilleo but for a decent price.


----------



## kr0gg

yep, me too.
   
  as i see on their site, they will be offering an upgrade kit for their existing DACs.
  so i wrote a letter to them asking if they will provide such a kit for DI.


----------



## kr0gg

i've received an answer. that was REALLY fast )
   
   
  Quote: 





> Dear Igor,
> The DI can for upgrade but the TE8802 want to install at outside because the DI have not enough room to install.
> Kingwa


 
   
  i've sent a few more questions to Kingwa and will post his answers here when he responds.


----------



## kr0gg

an update:
  i've asked if there will be an upgrade kit for DI and about its price.
  also i've asked if a new version of DI will be released.
  here are the answers:
   
  Quote: 





> Dear Igor,
> We will post the introduce later while the kits release.
> We will offer low price for users upgrade as thanks your support.
> We will release the new DI at early of May.
> Kingwa


----------



## IPodPJ

Hopefully the new one might have an option for a serious power supply, in a single, larger chassis. Transports in any form benefit from transformers with lots of headroom and serious power supplies/regulators.

My Transporter used to have small transformers like that in the DI power supply and when I upgraded them to torroids (among other things) along with using Audio-gd's DIY power supply there were major improvements.


----------



## DarknightDK

Having just purchased the Ref 7.1, I'm curious as to which converter I should get in connecting the DAC to the computer (Mac). Is the Audio Gd DI good enough for this purpose or should I be looking at other converters from anedio, audiophilleo, empirical audio, etc? Which converter represents the best bang for the buck before marginal returns start to set in?


----------



## kr0gg

i'd wait until they release a new version of Digital interface in may.
  DI is the greatest bang for the buck at this moment.
  Audiophilleo is superior to the current DI, of course, but it doesn't justify the $300 difference for me.
  i hope that with the async TE8022 the new DI will be equal to Audiophilleo.
   
  talking about Anedio u2 - nobody has compared it to any other converter yet.
  empirical audio's converter costs over $1400 as far as i know. if i would have this kind of money, i would add another $400 and go for Berkeley Usb converter which is supposed to beat any other existing converter


----------



## DarknightDK

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> i'd wait until they release a new version of Digital interface in may.
> DI is the greatest bang for the buck at this moment.
> Audiophilleo is superior to the current DI, of course, but it doesn't justify the $300 difference for me.
> i hope that with the async TE8022 the new DI will be equal to Audiophilleo.
> ...


 

 Thanks for your input. I agree, empirical audio's converter seems like the best in the market currently but they are priced too high for what it really is. For that kind of dough i'd rather just get the Anedio D2.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





ipodpj said:


> Hopefully the new one might have an option for a serious power supply, in a single, larger chassis. Transports in any form benefit from transformers with lots of headroom and serious power supplies/regulators.
> My Transporter used to have small transformers like that in the DI power supply and when I upgraded them to torroids (among other things) along with using Audio-gd's DIY power supply there were major improvements.


 

 This would be very nice, I guess AGD power supply, a decent transformer, as well as a chassis, probably adds up in cost vs what AudioGD could do, plus I also like the R-core transformers AGD use (they never hum, at all).


----------



## K3cT

Quote: 





darknightdk said:


> Having just purchased the Ref 7.1, I'm curious as to which converter I should get in connecting the DAC to the computer (Mac). Is the Audio Gd DI good enough for this purpose or should I be looking at other converters from anedio, audiophilleo, empirical audio, etc? Which converter represents the best bang for the buck before marginal returns start to set in?


 


  Don't skimp on your converter as you're already using the Reference 7.1.


----------



## tim3320070

I believe the DSP1 negates much of the need for a high end converter. I sold my Audiophilleo 2 and am running optical (from my cheap audio card) via a cheap Monoprice coax converter to my Ref-8. I heard practically no difference (maybe an ever so slight hardness with the optical). I will probably get the new DI (I had the old one) anyway to be sure. Just don't expect dramatic improvements with a converter to the Ref-7.1 or other DSP DAC from AGD. On a side note, I did hear pretty decent improvement running the DI to my NFB12 vs. the built-in USB, but again, nothing dramatic.


----------



## IPodPJ

drez said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




There's no reason they couldn't do this if they wanted to. It's not difficult and would be one of the easier things to assemble.


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Audio-Gd just released the new DI with the Tnor8802 chip, with 3 different models to choose from. http://audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/DIv2/DIv2EN.htm
   
  Have just emailed him asking what's the difference between the standard version vs DI version.


----------



## kr0gg

wow!
  that is really cool!
   
  asynchronous USB and it has an RJ45 i2s output too! i want it!


----------



## DarknightDK

Quote: 





rhythmic_impulse said:


> Audio-Gd just released the new DI with the Tnor8802 chip, with 3 different models to choose from. http://audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/DIv2/DIv2EN.htm
> 
> Have just emailed him asking what's the difference between the standard version vs DI version.


 

  
  Do post the info here once you have a reply. Would like to know the difference as well.


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Here's the response from Kingwa. Basically his answers correspond to what is already posted on the DI-V2 page, but it's interesting to note that according to Kingwa, the DI-DSP with the Reference 10 is the better option for connection. He didn't provide any comments about sound quality though.
   
  WHat is the sound difference?

 What is the function difference?
  
 DI-DSP version is like the original DI with reclocking and upsampling?--------Yes.

 DI-V2 is just a USB to SPDIF converter with no reclocking and upsampling?----------Yes, but the TE8802 can setting the output sampling in PC driver

 Both version have the current transmit BNC output?-------Yes.

 Both version have the I2S output connector?-----------Yes.
    
  So this can connect to Reference 10? ----------------Yes.

    
  So Reference 10 can also switch between USB and I2S input?-----------The RE10 only have either USB and I2S input. For the RE10, if choice the I2S input version and want to have the DI, the DI-DSP is better, if like to with the DI V2, I recommend the RE10 USB version for simple .

   
  Kingwa
   
  Further Update to the above:
   
  The I2S transmit have some limit, like the cable want as short as better, and want to take care the RF disturb.
  If in the worst case, the I2S is the worst sound than other options.
  We now accept pre-order, before 1th May had 10% OFF, you can confirm the order and make the payment before 1th May.
 We estimate shipping at 15th May.


----------



## hawkhead

[size=11.0pt]10% OFF before 1st May[/size] on DI V2


----------



## DarknightDK

no discount on the DI-DSP?


----------



## tim3320070

It doesn't say that, I'm sure it's for any version.


----------



## fourwed

Quote: 





ipodpj said:


> There's no reason they couldn't do this if they wanted to. It's not difficult and would be one of the easier things to assemble.


 


 I am thinking to use a 7.4V lithium ion battery to see if there is improvement. Use battery to power the DI should be clean and stable, right? I will post the result later, probably after my exam on 25/4.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





fourwed said:


> I am thinking to use a 7.4V lithium ion battery to see if there is improvement. Use battery to power the DI should be clean and stable, right? I will post the result later, probably after my exam on 25/4.


 

 The good thing about batteries is you don't have to worry about power cord or street/wall power issues - with a strong LiFePO4 battery that is the end of your concerns, whereas with wall powered you need to worry about the power cable, having enough power outlets etc..  I know the DI PSU is meant to put out around 7-8 Volts but I thought a lot of components from other transports I have looked at use 3.3V?  I might email Kingwa to ask him about this, as my current transport already has a very well designed battery power solution.


----------



## aural bliss

is it redundant to get the new DI-V2 and nfb-3.2 dac ( they both use the new te8802 usb interface)


----------



## darren700

Quote: 





aural bliss said:


> is it redundant to get the new DI-V2 and nfb-3.2 dac ( they both use the new te8802 usb interface)


 


  I would say so. I am hoping to sell my D1-V1 and PSU so i can pick up the new DI-V2 *(I already have NFB3.1)


----------



## aural bliss

Quote: 





darren700 said:


> I would say so. I am hoping to sell my D1-V1 and PSU so i can pick up the new DI-V2 *(I already have NFB3.1)


 


  i will probably still buy the DI-V2 for future use with other DACs.  The NFB3.1 is $40 less than NFB3.2.  Saves me some money there


----------



## Digibart

Hi to everyone,I'm from Holland and just became e new member of Head-Fi.
   
  This is what I get from Kingwa about upgrading old DI and old DI-PSU:
   
   
  For the DI upgrade :
 1, The TE8802 must place at outside with wires connect to inside. The DI have not room for install the kit at inside.
 2, There are two resistors want to addition in DI. Don't need take off the board, just solder on top side.
 3, If you have the first version DI-PSU, a resistor want to addition. Don't need take off the board, just solder on top side.
 4, There is must have some soldering.
   
  I,m gonna ask him if you get those resistors with the TE8802 upgrade kit.
   
   
   
  Greetings,
  Bart


----------



## Digibart

Hi again,
   
  The resistors are for free, you have to just ask for them when placing the order.


----------



## fourwed

IMHO, it is a must to use / at least try to use battery to power your DI. The sound are clearer and crispy, more detailed. It is a very noticeable difference.
   
  Based on my experience, it is a little tricky to A/B test the USB powered and battery powered. There were a few times the DI did not output any sound or output crack sound. I was very afraid that I crashed my DI. Luckily, there should be some protection circuits inside. If you experience such problems, just unplug everything and wait for 10 seconds or so.
   
  Accroding to my experience and Kingwa's advice, I come up with these procedures:
   
  How to power on using Battery:
  1. Unplug every cable
  2. Turn the switch to USB.
  3. Plug the battery to the DI
  4. Turn the switch to DC IN
  5. Plug the USB cable and enjoy
   
   
  How to power off using Battery:
  1. Stop the source and unplug the USB cable
  2. Turn the switch to USB
  3. Unplug the battery from the DI
   
  It is better to unplug every cable and wait for 10 seconds before you change the power source - Either from USB powered to Battery powered / from Battery powered to USB powered.


----------



## hawkhead

Where did you source the battery ?
   
  On the new DI I see there is a DSP version and one without DSP


----------



## fourwed

I tried TWO 3.7V 18650 lithium battery for torch and 7.4V lithium polymer battery for R.C. helichopter. Both work okay although I could not tell you if there was a difference.
   
  I think you could try shops for R.C cars / ships / helichopters.
   
  PLEASE MAKE SURE THE POLARITY IS RIGHT!!


----------



## DarknightDK

So the use of a battery is preferred over the DI-PSU by Audio Gd?
   
  Also, is it recommended to upgrade the TCXO clocks in the DI? Could someone explain to me what the difference is with the clock upgrade?


----------



## darren700

im pretty sure the upgraded clock only helps when your upsampling, but i may be wrong.
  I just ordered a V21 to replace my original di and i opted for the TXCO even though i probably wont use upsampleing.


----------



## tim3320070

Clock is for upsampling only and I felt it sounded better with the TXCO and upsampled vs the standard clock- everything just a little more focused.


----------



## BoyNamedSue

Anyone have a web link or specs for a lithium battery for the DI? I am always for cheap tweaks =).


----------



## darren700

Quote: 





boynamedsue said:


> Anyone have a web link or specs for a lithium battery for the DI? I am always for cheap tweaks =).


 
   

 its on this page, just scroll down.
http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/DIv2/DIv2EN.htm


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





darren700 said:


> im pretty sure the upgraded clock only helps when your upsampling, but i may be wrong.
> I just ordered a V21 to replace my original di and i opted for the TXCO even though i probably wont use upsampleing.


 
   
  According to the product page the DI-DSP has one clock for upsampling (24.576mhz) and one clock for usb (12mhz). The V21 has only the 12mhz and doesn't have the upsampling functionality because that is a feature of the DSP3.1. So, you will be benefiting from the upgraded clock.
   
I emailed them regarding the DSP and whether it improves the USB input or not, and Kingwa said it does. I was going to get the V21 to replace my DI but decided to get the DI-DSP with 12mhz upgrade even though I don't need the upsampling/spdif input. Can't wait to get it.


----------



## kr0gg

i've asked them the same question about the 12mhz clock.
  imho, it doesn't affect sound quality because it is related to the TE8802 USB controller.
  on the other side - the te8802 chip is pretty new, seen only in a TEAC dac and one taiwanese DAC, and no one really knows yet much info about it.
   
  anyway - i'm going for the DSP version too because i like the current DI's upsamling sound. it really tightens things up.
   
  i've already ordered a Tentlabs clock too. didn't want to buy it earlier because i considered it a waste of money which would better be spent on an async converter. Now, when these guys release an async DI, i think that the right moment has come


----------



## aural bliss

I'm in the market for a USBtoSPDIF converter.  I have looked at other options: V-Link II, Hiface2.  They both will cost around $200 with shipping.  It seems like the DI is the best price/performance value.  I will most likely get the DI-V21.  I'm hesitant to add another $75 for the PSU though; maybe I will just go the DC power route.


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





aural bliss said:


> I'm in the market for a USBtoSPDIF converter.  I have looked at other options: V-Link II, Hiface2.  They both will cost around $200 with shipping.  It seems like the DI is the best price/performance value.  I will most likely get the DI-V21.  I'm hesitant to add another $75 for the PSU though; maybe I will just go the DC power route.


 
   
  The PSU is minimal improvement IMO from experience. Money would be better spent on the DSP version rather than the PSU, again, IMO.


----------



## aural bliss

The $108 DI-V21 or the $198 DI-DSP.  This is the question.  Too bad nobody has experience to comment on them yet.


----------



## kr0gg

some users might not like the effect of DI upsampling, but i highly recommend it.
  it makes scene-positioning much more precise and adds body to vocals.


----------



## tim3320070

That's exactly it, well put. To add to that I feel upsampling makes the vocals more intimate, like they are a step closer.


----------



## somestranger26

The DI-DSP isn't just for the upsampling though. According to Kingwa, the DSP is used to process the data from both the USB and SPDIF inputs to reduce jitter.


----------



## newcube

Which DI should you buy if you are going from a Squeezebox to a DAC ?
   
   
  Thank you


----------



## kr0gg

another letter to Audio-gd:
  Quote: 





> Yes, i like the upsampling your DI provides, it really improves sound. But as i understand - only the 24.576 clock works for upsampling.   Your page says that there are 2 clocks that you offer to upgrade.     But, as i understand the other (12mhz) clock is not for upsampling. It is for TE8802. So the question is - will upgrading the 12mhz clock improve sound quality?-*--------only tiny improve in my listen.*
> *Kingwa*


----------



## hawkhead

Neither
  Quote: 





newcube said:


> Which DI should you buy if you are going from a Squeezebox to a DAC ?
> 
> 
> Thank you


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





newcube said:


> Which DI should you buy if you are going from a Squeezebox to a DAC ?
> 
> 
> Thank you


 
   
   


 you should get the DSP version and connect it between your Squeezebox and your dac.
  it will dejitter the signal transmitted via coax. you may also (if you want to) upsample that signal by DI.


----------



## aural bliss

From what I understand the DI-V21 has async jitter-reducing capabilities while the DI-DSP is an improved version quality wise (plus upsampling).  I am trying to justify the $90 price difference.


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





aural bliss said:


> From what I understand the DI-V21 has async jitter-reducing capabilities while the DI-DSP is an improved version quality wise (plus upsampling).  I am trying to justify the $90 price difference.


 
   
  Judging from your signature, I would put money into upgraded headphones rather than a converter than provides minimal improvement. Just an opinion.


----------



## aural bliss

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> Judging from your signature, I would put money into upgraded headphones rather than a converter than provides minimal improvement. Just an opinion.


 
   

 I intend to buy the Bifrost DAC.  Will need a USBtoSPDIF converter


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> Judging from your signature, I would put money into upgraded headphones rather than a converter than provides minimal improvement. Just an opinion.


 
   

 i've owned a pair of SRH840 before and i should say that i think that these headphones are very underrated on head-fi


----------



## tim3320070

I had them as well I'm just saying that spending the most on the best sounding headphones you can afford ought to be priority. The difference between DAC's (and especially converters) is pretty minor compared to upgraded speakers/ headphones.


----------



## Bojamijams

Damn it. I was looking to get the DI Version B (usb input only) which I thought came with the DSP because his page mentions the DSP being used and nothing about a non-dsp version.
   
  Now I see there's a version 2 of the DI.. with a DSP and non DSP and a third version as well... Kingwa didn't mention anything about a new version coming out and I placed the order at the end of last week.
   
  Now trying to furiously get an answer on what it is EXACTLY that I ordered and if its the old version, if I can upgrade to the new version before its shipped.
   
  They really need better webpage design. The layout and navigation are horrendous


----------



## tim3320070

The old version had the DSP. The new version has the new USB input.


----------



## darren700

new version has A-Sync FTW.
  I was originally planning on getting the V21 and using my old A-GD PSU with it, as i sold only the DI. Now im not so sure, im trying to get rid of the power supply so i can upgrade to the DSP version and get the newer PSU (figured why not go all out and not regret it later).
   
  Anyone interested in the first gen power supply? $55 Shipped.
  FS Thread here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/601553/audio-gd-power-supply-for-digital-interface-only


----------



## tim3320070

You can do a simple mod to the old PSU I think?


----------



## darren700

it is stated on their site that a resistor just needs to be soldered on, i emailed King-wa about it and he said they will post instructions on the site soon on how to do it. He also said to ask for the resistor when ordering the DI DSP and they will send me one.


----------



## darren700

Well i Sold My PSU, that was quick!. Got a maxed out order now: New DI-DSP (both clocks upgraded) and the New DI-PSU. came to $328 US shipped to Canada.


----------



## Bojamijams

Kingwa got back to me before it shipped and I was able to upgrade to that same order. Pricy but at least now I won't wonder if I should've upgraded
   
  ... until V3 comes out.. sigh


----------



## aural bliss

Quote: 





darren700 said:


> Well i Sold My PSU, that was quick!. Got a maxed out order now: New DI-DSP (both clocks upgraded) and the New DI-PSU. came to $328 US shipped to Canada.


 
   

 Cool.  However, paying $328 for a USBtoSPDIF setup seems excessive to me.  Does the audio quality really improve that much over the DI-V21?


----------



## darren700

i dont know for sure if i could even hear the difference, however i like having the peice of mind that the usb to coax convertor is not the weak link in my system.
  I mainly wanted the new version for the A-sync 24/192 over USB as that is relatively unheard else ware right now.
   
  The ability to play with upsampling just by changing driver settings is also very appealing to me, compared to changing jumper pins in the old DI.
   
  plus the Digital Interface is relatively cheap compared to the audiophilleo models, at $579 and $949!!!


----------



## drez

Quote: 





aural bliss said:


> Cool.  However, paying $328 for a USBtoSPDIF setup seems excessive to me.  Does the audio quality really improve that much over the DI-V21?


 
   
  I think Kingwa answers that question in his FAQ - from memory he says that it is not a huge difference, and that it depends on the quality of the power coming out the USB ports of your computer.  With the DI version 1 I dound it very very difficult to tell the difference and I don't think I would have passed a blind test.  You can always try the DI v2 and then buy the PSU if you think there is room for improvement later.
   
  Quote: 





darren700 said:


> i dont know for sure if i could even hear the difference, however i like having the peice of mind that the usb to coax convertor is not the weak link in my system.
> I mainly wanted the new version for the A-sync 24/192 over USB as that is relatively unheard else ware right now.
> 
> The ability to play with upsampling just by changing driver settings is also very appealing to me, compared to changing jumper pins in the old DI.
> ...


 
   
  Considering how small differences in transports are meant to be (unless your DAC has pretty poor digital input design) I don't think it's wise to spend big on transports.  But if you do have a system that you are not considering changing, then transport can be moderately effective upgrade.  I do like the I2S feature also.


----------



## fourwed

Please..............believe me, using battery to drive the old DI makes a day and night difference. This is why John Kennedy modded hiface is a huge success and now audiophilleo has using almost the same philosophy to build the new power pack. According to some reviews, the PSU does not make a large improvement and I did not buy it. (Kingwa, please forgive me, I love your products).
   
  IMHO, PSU is a bit pricey and not as simple as battery. You might need to match it with a good quality power cable to sound good and a good quality power cable cost a lot.


----------



## Sganzerla

Can you give us some information on how to use a battery to drive the DI?
   
   I can atest that using the PSU to power my Olimex USB Isolator, using a good DIY power cord I've made and the Teralink DC Copper Cable, the improvements compared to using the PSU to feed the DI are big, the biggest being the expansive soundstage.
   I've tried this 2 days ago to confirm that I have the same opinion now than when I used this combo the very first time.


----------



## tim3320070

Battery use for the new DI:
   
http://audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/DIv2/DIv2EN.htm


----------



## somestranger26

Has anyone actually found a suitable battery like the one here?

   
  I've found some suitable 7.4V batteries for reasonable prices (around $30 for 6600mAh -- good for all day) but they all seem to have bare wire ends and I have not seen a single one with built-in barrel connectors of the pictured battery. I also noticed the battery shown has the wrong voltage and when I asked where to find suitable batteries, Kingwa didn't have much help to offer since he was finding them through some Chinese site. He also said they couldn't sell them direct because EMS/DHL have issues shipping batteries overseas.


----------



## kr0gg

also the question is - how to control battery charge.
  as i remember, batteries drop voltage when losing charge
  without any indicators i might forget to recharge it, anyone might. and WILL FORGET sooner or later.
  and giving too low voltage to the DI might harm it, right?


----------



## somestranger26

Ok, I have scoured the internet and finally found two batteries with appropriate size barrel connectors.

 5200 mAh, 7.4V Li-Ion battery
 2600 mAh 7.4V Li-Ion battery
   
  To answer kr0gg above: as long as you buy batteries that say they have "PCB" or a "protection control module/PCM" or some variant thereof, you should not have to worry about undercharging the batteries. From what I've seen, most of these PCMs trigger a cutoff when voltage reaches 5V, which is still within the DI's input parameters. That is probably why Kingwa insists on 7.4V and not something like 6V. You're not going to find any inexpensive batteries with a charge indicator or anything, so you'll just have to wait til it stops working or periodically recharge (not a problem with Li-Ion since there's no memory effect).


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Ok, I have scoured the internet and finally found two batteries with appropriate size barrel connectors.


 
   
  are you going to order one?
  i've got the old PSU at the moment, so i'll get batteries only if they will be reported as an improvement by someone like you


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> are you going to order one?
> i've got the old PSU at the moment, so i'll get batteries only if they will be reported as an improvement by someone like you


 

 Yes, I ordered a 5200 mAh and a charger with protection circuitry from the same seller for $49.90 total. I'm planning to see how it works and post results with the DI and then again when I get my DI-V21.
   
  Kingwa must be talking about some low capacity batteries or something when he says you can find them with charger for $15. There's about an $8 premium for the barrel connectors from what I've seen comparable battery packs selling for with bare wire ends. I think that's a pretty fair price to pay regardless, and $50 is less expensive than the power supply anyway.
   
  Edit: I wonder if the Olimex Isolator will work with the DI-V21 (at 24/96 and lower, anyway).


----------



## leeperry

quite frankly, I really wouldn't advise to use no-name chinese batteries: http://www.nikonusa.com/Service-And-Support/Service-Advisories/h0ndzaip/EN-EL15-Battery-Recall-Service-Advisory.html
   
  even those that went through the QA of serious manufacturers can give problems, so no-name stuff on ebay directly shipped from China? hummm.
   
  Kingwa also provides a killer looking Class-A PSU with 0.3mV ripple for pretty cheap, sounds good to me..no overheating issue, no flat batteries, very low ripple = win win


----------



## fourwed

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> quite frankly, I really wouldn't advise to use no-name chinese batteries: http://www.nikonusa.com/Service-And-Support/Service-Advisories/h0ndzaip/EN-EL15-Battery-Recall-Service-Advisory.html
> 
> even those that went through the QA of serious manufacturers can give problems, so no-name stuff on ebay directly shipped from China? hummm.
> 
> Kingwa also provides a killer looking Class-A PSU with 0.3mV ripple for pretty cheap, sounds good to me..no overheating issue, no flat batteries, very low ripple = win win


 
   
  These batteries are only assembled in China but the battery is made by SANYO. It is only 18650, a very standard battery in many hand torches and notebook batteries. It should be of very good quality if it is not fake.
   
  Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Yes, I ordered a 5200 mAh and a charger with protection circuitry from the same seller for $49.90 total. I'm planning to see how it works and post results with the DI and then again when I get my DI-V21.
> 
> Kingwa must be talking about some low capacity batteries or something when he says you can find them with charger for $15. There's about an $8 premium for the barrel connectors from what I've seen comparable battery packs selling for with bare wire ends. I think that's a pretty fair price to pay regardless, and $50 is less expensive than the power supply anyway.
> 
> Edit: I wonder if the Olimex Isolator will work with the DI-V21 (at 24/96 and lower, anyway).


 
   
  Kingwa must be refering the price in China. It is not as expensive as in USA.
   
  As for the DI, overvoltage is a problem and it might damage the DI; undervoltage will just not having enough power to power up the DI. However, an undervoltage lithium battery will be permanent damaged and might swell. It is advised not to wait until the battery are all used up, unless using protected battery like you.
   
  7.4V is because 1 cell battery is 3.7V, 2 cell is 7.4V. You will not find any Lithium battery has a lower or higher voltage. As a matter of fact, a full charge 7.4V battery is about 8.4V, you could verify it with a multimeter. I am thinking using common AA battery will do the same trick, chargeable or alkaline, but I might be wrong.
   
  It is labelled on the old DI that it uses 300mA. I think a 5200mAh battery will drive around 13 hours.
   
  My battery powered DI has given me some problems. For example, there is no sound / cracking sound if I use the battery sometimes. What I did is unplug everything and wait for a minute or two, then reconnect them again. I hope you will not have problems like me and I will ask Kingwa why?
   
  Please compare the battery powered DI with Audio-gd's PSU if you have one, thx.
   
  Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> are you going to order one?
> i've got the old PSU at the moment, so i'll get batteries only if they will be reported as an improvement by someone like you


 
   
   
*kr0gg, please do not try battery powered DI.* It is too risky and complicated for someone like you


----------



## tim3320070

I'm not sure how a battery would do a better job than the dedicated, high quality PSU? Unless you have the noisiest power source on the planet? I live in a 150 year old house with a mish-mash of wiring and everything is silent through my gear (using power filter).


----------



## fourwed

I think you have to try it for yourself. I did not say the battery is better than PSU and I honestly did not compare them. I just based on the review saying that the PSU only makes a subtle difference and that is why I did not buy it with my DI.
   
  For me, I don't know much about power and electronics but I think you should agree with me that a cleaner power source / a high quality power cable makes a lot of difference.
   
  According to some Hifi lovers, they think power filter, except thousands of dollars, will cut both the high and low frequency.


----------



## tim3320070

I don't agree about the power cable but that's another silly debate- I use $3 Monoprice cables for everything and they sound the same as the "nice" cables I had. I also hear no difference with or without the filter, I use it as a way to plug multiple items in at this point. I guess I'm not a Hifi lover.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





fourwed said:


> I think you have to try it for yourself. I did not say the battery is better than PSU and I honestly did not compare them. I just based on the review saying that the PSU only makes a subtle difference and that is why I did not buy it with my DI.
> 
> For me, I don't know much about power and electronics but I think you should agree with me that a cleaner power source / a high quality power cable makes a lot of difference.


 
  I'm fairly certain the battery is going to be better than the PSU for exactly that reason; there's only a very subtle difference using the power supply, and you're saying the battery makes a noticeable improvement. It is also worth noting that on his really high end gear, Kingwa says his power supplies are better than batteries which infers that batteries are the power supply to beat. I do not think the psu for the DI is up to the same standards as the insane ones using in gear like the Reference 7.1.
   
  I agree that cleaner power source undeniably makes for better sound quality, but the latter statement about power cables is quite contested. In my experience, using a Pangea AC-9 with my NFB-10ES makes a small improvement in bass extension and imaging (more precise location of instruments, etc.), but the Audio-GD power cable I use with the PSU makes no difference. Unless you have a really high end system, it's obviously not worth even thinking about upgrading power cables (or other cables for that matter) since the difference is not large.
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *fourwed* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> These batteries are only assembled in China but the battery is made by SANYO. It is only 18650, a very standard battery in many hand torches and notebook batteries. It should be of very good quality if it is not fake.
> *Exactly. The price pretty much lines up with what you'd pay for the 18650 cells domestically, but it is in a pack enclosure. I'm confident they're legitimate Sanyo cells. A lot of the batteries this seller has seem to be aimed at simply taking a battery already on the market, adding connectors to it, and reselling for a premium. Kingwa even asked me whether I could find the batteries on ebay, and pretty much all the batteries on ebay are direct from China.*
> 
> ...


----------



## tim3320070

You're fairly certain of an someone else's opinion based on no experience or direct testing by either of you of the PSU vs a battery?


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> You're fairly certain of an someone else's opinion based on no experience or direct testing by either of you of the PSU vs a battery?


 
   
  Yes. He said the battery made a significantly noticeable difference. (Said it definitely made an improvement over USB power).
  Nobody has said the PSU makes a significantly noticeable difference. (They use words like "subtle" or "can't tell a difference").
  Therefore, I think the battery will be better than the PSU. (This is sound categorical logic as far as I can tell)
   
  What, do you think I am not actually going to listen for myself? I'm simply stating my expectations, and I think they will be confirmed despite whatever confirmation bias you must think I'll fall prey to.


----------



## fourwed

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Yes. He said the battery made a significantly noticeable difference. (Said it definitely made an improvement over USB power).
> Nobody has said the PSU makes a significantly noticeable difference. (They use words like "subtle" or "can't tell a difference").
> Therefore, I think the battery will be better than the PSU. (This is sound categorical logic as far as I can tell)
> 
> What, do you think I am not actually going to listen for myself? I'm simply stating my expectations, and I think they will be confirmed despite whatever confirmation bias you must think I'll fall prey to.


 
   
  Thanks for your understanding. Besides, it is not costing you an arm and a leg to use battery. It costs me nothing because I have those batteries on hand and I DIY the cable. The beauty is that the battery that I am saying is cheap and could be used elsewhere if you think it sounds bad. However, $50 is a lot and I hope you won't regret.
   
  I was a unbeliever in power cable and clean power until one day my colleague lent me an Acrolink 4020 ($150). It was using with FUN then and 10SE now. There is a noticeable improvement especailly the string sound. After that, I have tested some power cables ranging from ($30 to $110) and there is not that much improvement although it is noticeable.
   
  Acrolink 4030 (4020 is not listed in its English site)
http://www.acrolink.jp/english/products/6n_p4030.html
   
  Can I know what is "*Are you switching between USB and battery power too quickly or something?*"?
   
  I would also like to know the steps of connecting PSU to DI, is it like this?
   
  1. connect the DI Coaxial to the 10SE Coaxial
  2. connect the PSU to DI
  3. turn on the power of PSU
  4. turn the switch from "USB" to "DC IN"
  4. plug the USB cable to a running computer


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





fourwed said:


> Can I know what is "*Are you switching between USB and battery power too quickly or something?*"?
> 
> I would also like to know the steps of connecting PSU to DI, is it like this?
> 
> ...


 
   
  Are you switching between USB and battery power without giving the DI a few seconds of being off? Maybe that is why you get crackles or no sound. I will definitely post if I experience this phenomenon when I get my battery.
   
  Those steps look correct, although you can interchange the switching from USB to DC IN such that you plug the USB in, the DI powers off of the USB, and then you can switch to DC on the fly. With batteries it seems like you would want to go on battery power before connecting to the computer. My personal steps are as follows since I use the Olimex USB Isolator, and my DI gets its power over USB.

 Connect coaxial between DAC and DI.
 Connect USB from Olimex Isolator to DI.
 Connect PSU To Olimex Isolator, turn it on.
 Plug Olimex Isolator into computer.
 Switch from "DC IN" to "USB" if necessary.


----------



## fourwed

Somestranger26, thanks for you info. My battery powered DI works fine today even I have switched the battery a few times. Do you mean that I should stop the source for a few seconds before switching, while leaving the USB cable connected and PSU/Battery Power on?
   
  I took a look of USB-ISO and its input is 8-15V while the USB is 5V. That means there is a circuit to lower its power to 5V and that might affects the sound. Please try both the Olimex power port and DI power port when you use your battery.
   
  I am also buying an isloator built locally and see if there is any improvement. According to the seller, it also lower its power from 5 to 9V by using built-in linear power. I could also DIY to bypass it and feed an 5V to it directly if I desire so.


----------



## somestranger26

fourwed said:


> Somestranger26, thanks for you info. My battery powered DI works fine today even I have switched the battery a few times. Do you mean that I should stop the source for a few seconds before switching, while leaving the USB cable connected and PSU/Battery Power on?
> 
> I took a look of USB-ISO and its input is 8-15V while the USB is 5V. That means there is a circuit to lower its power to 5V and that might affects the sound. Please try both the Olimex power port and DI power port when you use your battery.
> 
> I am also buying an isloator built locally and see if there is any improvement. According to the seller, it also lower its power from 5 to 9V by using built-in linear power. I could also DIY to bypass it and feed an 5V to it directly if I desire so.




I'm not sure what the best way is, I'll try to determine the correct methodology when my battery arrives. If you're having no problems then I would keep doing what you're doing.

Yeah, the Olimex uses some sort of switching regulator to convert it back to 5V but it sounds better/the same as connecting direct to the DI and it is more logistically sound the way I have my gear placed. I highly doubt I'll provide DC over USB using the battery.

Not sure yet if the Olimex will even work with the DI-V21 since it's designed for USB 1.1 and the DI-V21 is now USB 2 (but perhaps switches to 1.1 at lower resolutions?).


----------



## darren700

Hmm that would be interesting to know. I will test with my di-dsp when it arrives. I actually bought a second olimex usb-iso with the plan to use one with the di-dsp and one with the audiolab mdac USB input when it arrives. Hopefully it still works with the di-dsp, maybe it just won't work right with higher Res files such as 24-192 as you said.


----------



## darren700

Hurray, looking at the olimex site it states its fully USB 2.0 compliment stating full speed of 12mbps. However high speed usb2.0 can get up to 20-25 mbps so technicaly it might still be too slow for 24-192 use. so there should be no problems with 24-96 (as I've done it before with the usb-iso and DI V1) however 24-192 may be a problem; does anyone know the actual bitrate of a 24-192 file so we can see if it work? (I'm at work and can't check)
http://www.olimex.com/dev/usb-iso.html


----------



## somestranger26

Yeah, exactly. It says it is USB 2.0 compliant, but with a max speed that USB 1.1 uses (12mbps). So, it seems likely that it will still work up to 24/96 but I wouldn't go spending money til it's been confirmed. Another interesting thing to find out will be whether it even makes a difference with the asynchronous TE8202 now used vs the isochronous TE7022.

edit: Depending on USB overhead it could theoretically work at full 24/192. 
(24 bits/sample * 192,000 samples/sec * 2 (overhead coefficient)) / (1 megabit or 2^20) ~ 9Mbps, very close to the top of the USB 1.1 range.


----------



## somestranger26

So, I got my battery in the mail today and nothing has exploded yet. I'm impatient so I put it on the charger for about 30 minutes to get some testing in before going out. 

The battery certainly makes an improvement,although it requires careful listening to notice. In comparing to the DI w/ isolator but no power supply, the Improvements seem to be 'sharper' sounding string instruments, 'blacker' background, and slightly more low level details and ultra low frequency bass (<30hz) likely as a side effect of the 'blacker' background. 

In one of my main test songs, "Invisible Man in a Fluorescent Suit" by Shpongle, the opening 60 seconds has significantly more subtle details (especially the 'pat tat tat' sort of sound around 0:50-1:00) and the violin sounds more realistic like there is a quicker transition from one movement of the bow to the next. Around 1:59 there's some details in the background that used to be pushed back and required active listening that are now very clear. The drop at 2:29 and subsequent bass-intensive portions thereafter seem to reach deeper in the 20-30hz range. 

Overall, it seems like a great upgrade that's worth getting over the power supply. I still can't really tell much of a difference using the power supply, such that it could just be a placebo. The battery is definitely an upgrade in sound quality, but I would say the USB Isolator and hex inverter swap are higher priority upgrades for the DI-V1. The difference in sq upgrade is somewhere between the isolator/hex inverter upgrades and upgrading the USB cable (I use a Furutech GT2).

By the way, regarding the whole switching between battery and usb thing I found it remarkably easy. Sometimes just flipping the switch works (especially if you're not playing anything), but if it doesn't these seem to have 100% success rate:

Switch from USB to Battery:
-Stop all playback on computer
-Unplug USB from DI
-Switch to battery
-Plug USB back in

Switch from battery to USB:
-Stop playback
-Unplug USB from DI
-Switch to USB
-Plug USB back in

edit:
P.S. No dropouts yet on battery, noticed some when switching to PSU.

edit2: changes seem more immediately noticeable on speakers -- very immersive soundstage and deep bass.


----------



## leeperry

I tried the Firestone ILoveTW DAC through ADuM4160, and TE8022L is entirely compatible up to 24/96....the nice added value is 88.2kHz support =)


----------



## fourwed

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> So, I got my battery in the mail today and nothing has exploded yet. I'm impatient so I put it on the charger for about 30 minutes to get some testing in before going out.
> The battery certainly makes an improvement,although it requires careful listening to notice. In comparing to the DI w/ isolator but no power supply, the Improvements seem to be 'sharper' sounding string instruments, 'blacker' background, and slightly more low level details and ultra low frequency bass (<30hz) likely as a side effect of the 'blacker' background.
> In one of my main test songs, "Invisible Man in a Fluorescent Suit" by Shpongle, the opening 60 seconds has significantly more subtle details (especially the 'pat tat tat' sort of sound around 0:50-1:00) and the violin sounds more realistic like there is a quicker transition from one movement of the bow to the next. Around 1:59 there's some details in the background that used to be pushed back and required active listening that are now very clear. The drop at 2:29 and subsequent bass-intensive portions thereafter seem to reach deeper in the 20-30hz range.
> Overall, it seems like a great upgrade that's worth getting over the power supply. I still can't really tell much of a difference using the power supply, such that it could just be a placebo. The battery is definitely an upgrade in sound quality, but I would say the USB Isolator and hex inverter swap are higher priority upgrades for the DI-V1. The difference in sq upgrade is somewhere between the isolator/hex inverter upgrades and upgrading the USB cable (I use a Furutech GT2).
> ...


 
   
  Good to know that you notice the improvement as I did. Would you please do a comparison without the USB isolator? I really want someone to cocur with me that there is a big improvement, haha, it seems unfair if there is an isolator in between.
   
  Besides, I also want to know which inverter you think is the best.


----------



## somestranger26

The battery makes a very noticeable improvement without the USB isolator, so perhaps they're at about the same priority level for an upgrade. Adding the isolator just makes it that much better. So, as much as leeperry might complain about the switching regulator on the isolator it still seems to beat whatever is coming straight out of the USB. All my impressions are with battery direct to di, not going through the isolator.


----------



## leeperry

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> The battery makes a very noticeable improvement without the USB isolator, so perhaps they're at about the same priority level for an upgrade. Adding the isolator just makes it that much better. So, as much as leeperry might complain about the switching regulator on the isolator it still seems to beat whatever is coming straight out of the USB. All my impressions are with battery direct to di, not going through the isolator.


 
   
  Keep in mind that the DI doesn't have a real pulse transformer on its coax output, but a cheaper ferrite bead that doesn't provide full galvanic isolation IME...more like 60dB'ish FWIR. And the built-in power isolator of the Olimex is prolly in the 150mV region, yay.
   
  I'm now using another 4160 dongle that has an unregulated PSU input that feeds both the USB device itself and the device side of 4160. SQ is stunning w/ a 5V/1A linear regulated PSU


----------



## JulienM

I've been away from this thread for too long... Could someone please point me to the discussion on replacing the hex inverter?
   
  I just order a USB isolator for my DI!


----------



## somestranger26

leeperry said:


> Keep in mind that the DI doesn't have a real pulse transformer on its coax output, but a cheaper ferrite bead that doesn't provide full galvanic isolation IME...more like 60dB'ish FWIR.


 
Do you know if this is the case for the DI-V2?


> I'm now using another 4160 dongle that has an unregulated PSU input that feeds both the USB device itself and the device side of 4160. SQ is stunning w/ a 5V/1A linear regulated PSU




Which Adum4160 dongle are you using now with the dual psu inputs? Sounds interesting.



			
				JulienM said:
			
		

> I've been away from this thread for too long... Could someone please point me to the discussion on replacing the hex inverter?



Right around here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/500369/audio-gd-digital-interface/2625#post_7859266
You need 74VHC04N or 74AHC04N or similar to replace the hex inverter chip in the di. I believe I'm using the 74VHC04N in mine.



fourwed said:


> Besides, I also want to know which inverter you think is the best.



I forgot to answer you before about this: I have only tried the 74VHC04N and the stock, I didn't get different variations to swap out. The biggest negative of the hex inverter swap is the sound can be a little more 'digital' (slightly harsh highs) but I found it was remedied completely by the isolator and using a good quality USB cable (I love monoprice, but their usb cable didn't seem very good for this purpose). The improvements in detail, soundstage, etc. are totally worth it though in my opinion, and the isolator is pretty much a must if you want the best sound quality.


----------



## JulienM

Thank you for the link!
   
  Not sure if faster hex inverters will be for me. It looks like the sound like fast op-amps: detailed but fatiguing... But I'll give it a try anyway, it's easy enough.
   
  What USB cable are you using? I've tried a few "audiophile" USB cables, and kept going back to Monoprice. I feel they are more neutral, less colored. Subtle, but there.


----------



## somestranger26

julienm said:


> Not sure if faster hex inverters will be for me. It looks like the sound like fast op-amps: detailed but fatiguing... But I'll give it a try anyway, it's easy enough.
> 
> What USB cable are you using? I've tried a few "audiophile" USB cables, and kept going back to Monoprice. I feel they are more neutral, less colored. Subtle, but there.



Without the usb isolator I found the inverter swap to be a bit fatiguing so I'd agree with that. I'm using a Furutech GT2 that I got for a fairly good price. I had a WW Ultraviolet before that didn't make much of a difference versus the monoprice and another no name usb cable that I compared against. The GT2 actually had a noticeable albeit subtle effect (battery/isolator/inverter are much better $/performance), I found it largely countered the slightly harsh highs caused by the hex inverter swap and some other subtle improvements. Monoprice is definitely good if you're sticking to cheaper cables.


----------



## BoyNamedSue

Thanks for the links. I think I'll jump on the battery bandwagon. which of the two batteries did you get?



somestranger26 said:


> Ok, I have scoured the internet and finally found two batteries with appropriate size barrel connectors.
> 
> 5200 mAh, 7.4V Li-Ion battery
> 2600 mAh 7.4V Li-Ion battery
> ...


----------



## BoyNamedSue

Regarding hex inverters, I've noticed that 74AHCU04N provides slightly greater instrument separation and spatiousness in music compared to stock, but the change is more a difference in sound signature than an improvement, with the stock having a slightly warmer and thicker sound. The Olimex Isolator (fed by AG PSU) and upgraded USB cable (ACR silver on audiogon) made slight improvements in that the sound became less muddy and more detailed. The isolater made the most difference in my system, followed by usb cable and hex inverter. 
   
  It was a bit tricky finding the hex inverters. I got mine from mouser.com, as suggested by somestranger. They are cheap so I got several of them (e.g., [size=9pt]595-SN74AHC04N, [/size][size=9pt]595-SN74AHCU04N, [/size][size=9pt]512-74VHC04N) [/size]to make the shipment cost worthwhile and do some inverter rolling =).


----------



## JulienM

boynamedsue said:


> Regarding hex inverters, I've noticed that 74AHCU04N provides slightly greater instrument separation and spatiousness in music compared to stock, but the change is more a difference in sound signature than an improvement, with the stock having a slightly warmer and thicker sound. The Olimex Isolator (fed by AG PSU) and upgraded USB cable (ACR silver on audiogon) made slight improvements in that the sound became less muddy and more detailed. The isolater made the most difference in my system, followed by usb cable and hex inverter.
> 
> It was a bit tricky finding the hex inverters. I got mine from mouser.com, as suggested by somestranger. They are cheap so I got several of them (e.g., [SIZE=9pt]595-SN74AHC04N, [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]595-SN74AHCU04N, [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]512-74VHC04N) [/SIZE]to make the shipment cost worthwhile and do some inverter rolling =).





I also have the the ACR cable... I went back to monoprice after a few months though. I felt the ACR sounded soft. But I think it's time to revisit... Maybe I should build my own USB...

Were you able to compare different hex inverters?

I have the new DI-DSP on order, so all that might be irrelevant if the new DI sounds better than he original. But I'm still keeping my old one for a less critical system...


----------



## somestranger26

boynamedsue said:


> Thanks for the links. I think I'll jump on the battery bandwagon. which of the two batteries did you get?




I bought a 5200 which should last over 10 hours regardless of which DI you use it with. Yes, one could say the hex inverter is more of a flavor swap. For me, the more neutral, detailed presentation is a definite improvement. Kingwa chose the stock chip for a 'warmer/smoother' sound.

edit: battery won't fix dropouts for the original DI.


----------



## leeperry

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Do you know if this is the case for the DI-V2?


 
   
  I don't see any change in that section of the PCB.
   
  Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Which Adum4160 dongle are you using now with the dual psu inputs? Sounds interesting.


 
   
  http://www.poscope.com/pousbiso
   
  It's a dead simple PCB with the 4160 chip, a 150mV ripple 400mA(including the device side of 4160, so more like 300mA for the device itself) power isolator and some diodes to force the use of the unregulated external input.
   
  I've tried it w/ three types of PSU's:
  -the built-in 150mV power isolator, that sounds nasty and colored to death.
  -a 5.25V idle/500mA SONY cellphone wallwart, better SQ than either the computer 5V or the built-in power isolator
  -a 5V/1A linear regulated PSU: 


   
  stunning SQ!
   
  IME and IMHO, all those 4160 isolators that either use a very high ripple power isolator or a SMPS regulated input only give you a glimpse of what 4160 can offer. My next challenge is to use another of those linear PSU's in order to feed the HOST side of 4160, but that's a lot more complicated..
   
  jkeny has been recommending this cable on many audiophile forums: http://shop.meconet.de/product_info.php?language=en&products_id=115485
   
  but he has never tried it himself, huh...I'm not looking for thrills as a friend of mine tried a few tricks himself w/ USB power and all he managed to do is frying his USB controller 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The problem w/ this kind of trick is that you need to share grounds but you still want to block the nasty computer +5V and replace it seamlessly.


----------



## BoyNamedSue

Quote: 





julienm said:


> I also have the the ACR cable... I went back to monoprice after a few months though. I felt the ACR sounded soft. But I think it's time to revisit... Maybe I should build my own USB...
> Were you able to compare different hex inverters?
> I have the new DI-DSP on order, so all that might be irrelevant if the new DI sounds better than he original. But I'm still keeping my old one for a less critical system...


 
   
  Yeah, I got the ACR based on recommendations on audiogon. I have the version 2 which isolates the data and power within the same cable, but the haven't tried the version 3 which splits the power and data across separate cables. Compared to some generic USB, the sound was a bit more clear and the bass seemed to extended deeper with the ACR. However, there are so many variables just on the USB section of my system, its hard tell what is improving what anymore.
   
   
  I've only been able to compare the 74AHC04N and 74AHCU04N so far, and they sounded the same to me. I believe the latter is just the unbuffered version of the same chip. Both inverters added more instrument separation and spatiousness compared to stock, making the music a bit less congested. The stock sounded a bit more warm and smooth to me. I haven't been able to compare to the 74VHC04N yet.
   
  I also have the DI-DSP on the way, and agree that all these little tweaks to the old DI may be irrelevant if the new DSP is better sounding in its stock form. Can't wait for the comparisons!


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





> Dear Igor,
> The new DI have better detail and neutral sound than the old DI,
> But if for the warmer side sounding, the old DI is better.
> 
> ...


----------



## fourwed

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Do you know if this is the case for the DI-V2?
> Which Adum4160 dongle are you using now with the dual psu inputs? Sounds interesting.
> Right around here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/500369/audio-gd-digital-interface/2625#post_7859266
> You need 74VHC04N or 74AHC04N or similar to replace the hex inverter chip in the di. I believe I'm using the 74VHC04N in mine.
> I forgot to answer you before about this: I have only tried the 74VHC04N and the stock, I didn't get different variations to swap out. The biggest negative of the hex inverter swap is the sound can be a little more 'digital' (slightly harsh highs) but I found it was remedied completely by the isolator and using a good quality USB cable (I love monoprice, but their usb cable didn't seem very good for this purpose). The improvements in detail, soundstage, etc. are totally worth it though in my opinion, and the isolator is pretty much a must if you want the best sound quality.


 
   
  Yes, I agree with you that it sounds digital, or fatigue as JulienM said, that is why I switched it back to stock. However, I did not try it after I use lithium battery. I should give it a try later.
   
  Quote: 





boynamedsue said:


> Yeah, I got the ACR based on recommendations on audiogon. I have the version 2 which isolates the data and power within the same cable, but the haven't tried the version 3 which splits the power and data across separate cables. Compared to some generic USB, the sound was a bit more clear and the bass seemed to extended deeper with the ACR. However, there are so many variables just on the USB section of my system, its hard tell what is improving what anymore.
> 
> 
> I've only been able to compare the 74AHC04N and 74AHCU04N so far, and they sounded the same to me. I believe the latter is just the unbuffered version of the same chip. Both inverters added more instrument separation and spatiousness compared to stock, making the music a bit less congested. The stock sounded a bit more warm and smooth to me. I haven't been able to compare to the 74VHC04N yet.
> ...


 
   
  The new DI should be better but still, a good power source and power isolation should make a difference.
  Quote: 





leeperry said:


> I don't see any change in that section of the PCB.
> 
> 
> http://www.poscope.com/pousbiso
> ...


 
   
  Oh, I thought you are using this kind of linear power supply. I am thinking how good is it compared to lithium battery.
   

   
   
  Also, I purchased this USB isolator from a local online store. I must use a power source with it but its sound is not good even I use lithium battery to power this. I think it might be because of its power regulation and I will try to feed a 5V directly to it.


----------



## ursdiego

Hi out there! Does anybody know wether the new DI with TE8802 can be connected by asychronous USB 2 to the Squeezebox Touch (with the Enhanced Digital Output App as presented by Triode)?
   
  There are different statements about linux-compatibility of the TE8802 on the internet...
   
  Does anybody have reliable information about that?
   
  Cheers!


----------



## somestranger26

fourwed said:


> Also, I purchased this USB isolator from a local online store. I must use a power source with it but its sound is not good even I use lithium battery to power this. I think it might be because of its power regulation and I will try to feed a 5V directly to it.



It could also be how the ADUM4160 chip is implemented. Leeperry tested a ton of these isolator boards in a thread about the Firestone Bravo D-D converter and of that batch found http://www.olimex.com/dev/usb-iso.html to be best. I'd try either the olimex or the dual power supply one he linked above for best results. Most people in this thread are using the Olimex one since that's the bandwagon we all jumped on months ago . 

The way you connect the isolator to your computer (or the DI) can have an effect on SQ too from my experience. I found it sounded best Computer->USB adapter->Isolator->Cable->DI, and even the quality of the usb adapter seems to have an effect. A cable before the isolator will give worse SQ by increasing the stream latency, and low quality adapters also seem to affect the sq negatively. I used to have a really cheap USB A male to B male adapter that was wobbly and ended up breaking. Got a new one with better build quality (more robust, gold plate connectors) and noticed a slight improvement.



ursdiego said:


> Hi out there! Does anybody know wether the new DI with TE8802 can be connected by asychronous USB 2 to the Squeezebox Touch (with the Enhanced Digital Output App as presented by Triode)?
> 
> There are different statements about linux-compatibility of the TE8802 on the internet...



It will probably be like other async converters on the market -- Windows works with drivers and UNIX systems (Mac and Linux) usually have a built in USB audio driver that is compatible. I don't run Linux, but I could test compatibility on a liveCD for you when I get mine.


----------



## JulienM

boynamedsue said:


> Yeah, I got the ACR based on recommendations on audiogon. I have the version 2 which isolates the data and power within the same cable, but the haven't tried the version 3 which splits the power and data across separate cables. Compared to some generic USB, the sound was a bit more clear and the bass seemed to extended deeper with the ACR. However, there are so many variables just on the USB section of my system, its hard tell what is improving what anymore.




I just put the ACR back in the system. I agree with your comments, a bit more clear. Since I've build some new cast cables using Canare DA202, I'm reevaluating some previous observations.
But the thing I always try to avoid is listening fatigue. I've been fighting it for the past 15 years... How to get an involving sonic presentation without listening fatigue? Anyway, the verdict on the ACR is not complete yet, I need a few days to get used to it again.


----------



## ursdiego

Quote: 





julienm said:


> I've been fighting it for the past 15 years... How to get an involving sonic presentation without listening fatigue?


 
  Hey Julien, are you sure, that you have a reasonable goal here? I consider that involving music sounds as close as possible to live music. And even live instrumental chamber music played in the living room with no amplification involved, will provoke fatigue after a while.


----------



## ursdiego

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> It will probably be like other async converters on the market -- Windows works with drivers and UNIX systems (Mac and Linux) usually have a built in USB audio driver that is compatible. I don't run Linux, but I could test compatibility on a liveCD for you when I get mine.


 
  I indeed hope so! I will test it as soon as I get mine... I ordered a DI-DSP as well as the TE8802-upgrade for the two audio-gd DACs I own.


----------



## JulienM

ursdiego said:


> Hey Julien, are you sure, that you have a reasonable goal here? I consider that involving music sounds as close as possible to live music. And even live instrumental chamber music played in the living room with no amplification involved, will provoke fatigue after a while.




Agreed, not all listening fatigue comes from electronic distortion. It might be a standing wave, or volume, or just a long exposure to complex sounds.

Some recordings will also create fatigue due to electronics, acoustic problems, etc... I can't fix those. I still want my system to be transparent. I feel that too much coloration will make the system predictable and boring after a certain amount of time.

And there's also the listeners present mental and physical condition.

I try to limit my quest to the playback system. One of the signs of fatigue is an inability to listen to the system for more than 30 min to an hour. It just doesn't sound right, even though all the information is there, there's something off... Another one is when after a few hours of music (not necessarily at high volume) you feel your ears acking. Sometimes till the next day...

So, I'm always afraid that extra detail might lead to early listening fatigue. Because the extra detail might actually be extra distortion, or a different distortion, at the frequencies that hurt the ear. Experimentation is key.


----------



## LosNir

What would be a better choice for a usb isolator, the Olimex or PoUSBiso (4160 based)?


----------



## JulienM

I have an Olimex isolator on order, but I don't quite get the external power supply... I couldn't find a clear explanation... Does it feed the isolator, or the USB device (bypassing the host power)? My DI has its own power supply.

Do you guys with Olimex isolators use that extra power input? Any gains? If yes, any suggestions on what to get?

Thanks for your help!


----------



## BoyNamedSue

Quote: 





julienm said:


> I have an Olimex isolator on order, but I don't quite get the external power supply... I couldn't find a clear explanation... Does it feed the isolator, or the USB device (bypassing the host power)? My DI has its own power supply.
> Do you guys with Olimex isolators use that extra power input? Any gains? If yes, any suggestions on what to get?
> Thanks for your help!


 
   
  Like a few others here, I used the DI PSU to power the olimex and have the DI set to USB input. I notice a bit more micro-detail with the PSU on the olimex versus the DI. The olimex still works without a external PSU feeding it.
   
  Since were on the topic of tweaks, I was wondering if anyone here has tried Jplay as a software player with the DI. I found out about it randomly through this thread that compares multiple software players, http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=sc7kl86m30te6i8c50q1iqsn7mv2c5e6&topic=100613.0;wap2. I got the trial version of Jplay, since it was most recommended,and I am hearing a not so subtle improvement in SQ. In my speaker system, the music is noticeably tighter, in a good way, and I can hear more tone and texture on the bass. I am perceiving a slightly blacker background as well. I honestly don't want to believe that the improvements are so considerable, as I have been happy with foobar2000 and don't want to shell out money for a software player. I'm curious to hear other's impressions. FYI, all the modes on jplay seem to work and be stable with DI on my i7 windows 7 pc. I have mine set to hibernate mode with max settings.


----------



## somestranger26

boynamedsue said:


> Since were on the topic of tweaks, I was wondering if anyone here has tried Jplay as a software player with the DI.... snip snip




JPlay and Fidelizer make absolutely *zero* difference on my system (KS, 4 sample buffer, "XTREME", etc.) compared to Foobar2000 WASAPI 250ms buffer. I've tried every setting in fidelizer, I've tried hibernate mode with the 'max quality' settings in JPlay (have tried older versions of these software as well). No difference detected either way. I can hear a difference between USB cables but not between software... though it is obvious to tell DS vs WASAPI.

edit: I should mention I have tweaked some settings in f2k. I use full file buffering so it plays from memory (told it to play anything <1GB from memory basically), set playback thread priority to max, and have all replaygain, vst, etc. disabled. I'm not sure that these make much of a difference besides reducing dropout frequency.


----------



## Sganzerla

I tried the trial version and found it the best player I've ever tried.
   
   On my system, and to my ears:
   
   JPlay > cPlay > JRiver MC 17 > JRiver MC16 > Foobar
   
   I know there are people who don't believe in software, but I find the differences between Foobar and the others easy to spot.
   cPlay is free.


----------



## MohawkUS

I found Jplay to make a huge difference with my system which ATM is 'onboard sound(I'm having trouble picking a DAC)>A vintage Sherwood Receiver>Stax SR-5NB. If you use Jplay for Jriver it's nearly as good as the standalone and free. The full standalone of Jplay costs $130 and the difference between Jriver and Jplayed Jriv is a lot bigger than the difference between that and the full version. I'm on JRiver MC15 right now.


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





mohawkus said:


> I found Jplay to make a huge difference with my system which ATM is 'onboard sound(I'm having trouble picking a DAC)>A vintage Sherwood Receiver>Stax SR-5NB. If you use Jplay for Jriver it's nearly as good as the standalone and free. The full standalone of Jplay costs $130 and the difference between Jriver and Jplayed Jriv is a lot bigger than the difference between that and the full version. I'm on JRiver MC15 right now.


 
   
  you're saying that Jplay for Jriver is free? that's impossible.


----------



## MohawkUS

kr0gg said:


> you're saying that Jplay for Jriver is free? that's impossible.



 Yeah, the free trial works just fine with JRiver, when you're using it as a standalone player it cuts the audio in and out every minute or so. You'd have to get the payed version to use the standalone without that. I'm actually a bit surprised how good it can sound with onboard audio, the full version does sound noticeably better than the hybrid. Enough for a college student like me to buy it? nope, but someone with a disposable income, yes. The difference is a little more than subtle. 

 There is a sort of brightness I feel is inherit to JRiver that helps to add detail(foobar, media monkey, etc. all sound a bit dark/smudgy to me), Jplay eliminates the brightness while adding a little bit of texture. Moving up to the full Jplay adds a more accurate tone and a little more texture. I'd assume if I was running a better DAC the differences would be higher. These STAX really show off any tiny difference in the signal chain. Now if only I could find a DAC that kept the aggressive nature of onboard. My metal sounded a bit boring through the few DACs I've tried. That's why I'm in this thread, I was wondering about Audio-GD DACS and the DI.


----------



## drez

I never really tested JPlay when I was running the DI - only after I changed to the JK mk3.  Nowdays I usually don't bother to use it when in windows, and I don't use fidelizer either.  I use JRiver 17 in Windows, and when I want to do some critical listening I use JPlay in hibernate mode and to my ears I hear a pretty clear difference especially with high resolution material.


----------



## JulienM

Just got the Olimex USB-ISO! Initial impressions are very positive. Haven't played with power supply positioning yet...


----------



## BoyNamedSue

Quote: 





julienm said:


> Just got the Olimex USB-ISO! Initial impressions are very positive. Haven't played with power supply positioning yet...


 
   
   
  Congrats on getting the olimex. Glad to hear that initial impressions are positive. I was a bit surprised at the improvement when I first got it hooked up.
   
  Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> JPlay and Fidelizer make absolutely *zero* difference on my system (KS, 4 sample buffer, "XTREME", etc.) compared to Foobar2000 WASAPI 250ms buffer. I've tried every setting in fidelizer, I've tried hibernate mode with the 'max quality' settings in JPlay (have tried older versions of these software as well). No difference detected either way. I can hear a difference between USB cables but not between software... though it is obvious to tell DS vs WASAPI.
> edit: I should mention I have tweaked some settings in f2k. I use full file buffering so it plays from memory (told it to play anything <1GB from memory basically), set playback thread priority to max, and have all replaygain, vst, etc. disabled. I'm not sure that these make much of a difference besides reducing dropout frequency.


 
   
  @somestranger, I didn't know that foobar had the option to play from memory. Is this an extra component, or something you changed in the settings? Please advise.
   
  Thanks everyone for impressions on Jplay. I did some criticial listening yesterday going back and forth between fidelizer+Jplay/hibernate mode versus fidelizer+foobar2000, and I can reliably hear a difference with the most obvious one being that the bass has more authority and increased resolution (more tone and texture) with Jplay. It may be relevant to note that I am listening on my speaker system with a sub (REL strata), and so the difference may be more noticeable with a sub compared to a headphone system.


----------



## Sganzerla

I think there is no doubt that the DI power supply should feed the Olimex USB Isolator. The differences are there, and to go a little further you can power it with a good power cord and changing the DC cable for another (I have both the silver and copper Teralink cable, and preffer the later).


----------



## somestranger26

boynamedsue said:


> @somestranger, I didn't know that foobar had the option to play from memory. Is this an extra component, or something you changed in the settings? Please advise.




Preferences -> Advanced -> Playback -> Full file buffering up to (kB): [put a really big number like 999999999999 for full buffering]
Also in the same place you can change "Thread Priority" to 7 to make the playback thread run in "realtime."

Are you using native sample and bitrates in foobar? I found 16/44.1 to match most of my source material made a slight improvement, and I heard a longer buffer can improve the sq in some cases though I did not notice a difference between 50ms and 250ms so just left at 250ms.


----------



## fourwed

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> So, I got my battery in the mail today and nothing has exploded yet. I'm impatient so I put it on the charger for about 30 minutes to get some testing in before going out.
> The battery certainly makes an improvement,although it requires careful listening to notice. In comparing to the DI w/ isolator but no power supply, the Improvements seem to be 'sharper' sounding string instruments, 'blacker' background, and slightly more low level details and ultra low frequency bass (<30hz) likely as a side effect of the 'blacker' background.
> In one of my main test songs, "Invisible Man in a Fluorescent Suit" by Shpongle, the opening 60 seconds has significantly more subtle details (especially the 'pat tat tat' sort of sound around 0:50-1:00) and the violin sounds more realistic like there is a quicker transition from one movement of the bow to the next. Around 1:59 there's some details in the background that used to be pushed back and required active listening that are now very clear. The drop at 2:29 and subsequent bass-intensive portions thereafter seem to reach deeper in the 20-30hz range.
> Overall, it seems like a great upgrade that's worth getting over the power supply. I still can't really tell much of a difference using the power supply, such that it could just be a placebo. The battery is definitely an upgrade in sound quality, but I would say the USB Isolator and hex inverter swap are higher priority upgrades for the DI-V1. The difference in sq upgrade is somewhere between the isolator/hex inverter upgrades and upgrading the USB cable (I use a Furutech GT2).
> ...


 
   
  Hi somestranger26, I forget to ask you, what do you mean by " if it doesn't these seem to have 100% success rate". What happened if it was not successful?


----------



## kr0gg

another quote from Kingwa
   
  Quote: 





> Your site says that a 7.4v Li-po battery may be used to run the DI.   Can i use a 6.4v LifePo4 battery with the new DI ? If yes, will it be better than a Li-po batery?
> 
> *---------6.4V is ok. But I have not compare.*
> *Kingwa*


 
   
   
  also, i have just received a Teralab DC cable and a Tentlabs 24.576 xo clock.
  the upgrade in sound quality is bigger than i've expected.
  better defined bass, larger soundstage and much-much better positioning.


----------



## darren700

Quote: 





sganzerla said:


> I think there is no doubt that the DI power supply should feed the Olimex USB Isolator. The differences are there, and to go a little further you can power it with a good power cord and changing the DC cable for another (I have both the silver and copper Teralink cable, and preffer the later).


 
   


 Thanks for the tip on the Copper Teralink Cable, ordered one from ebay here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=251058206157
  Will probably end up getting another Iron Lung Jelly Fish for a power cable.
   
  Cant wait for my DI-DSP (both clocks upgraded) and PSU to get here.... hopefully they ship on may 15 like the estimate


----------



## JulienM

Yes, the Olimex USB-ISO is quite impressive.

I did try feeding it with the DI-PSU, but I only noticed a slight difference, if any. I have to compare a litle further for a final conclusion. What I noticed though is that the Olimex device got quite hot! Not good for component longevity... Not sure why since the DI-PSU voltage is within parameters.

But my guess of why it might sound better is because the Olimex device is not being powered by The computer PS. Maybe a wall wart for the Olimex, keeping the DI with its own PS might sound better still. Any of you tried that?


----------



## BoyNamedSue

Quote: 





julienm said:


> Maybe a wall wart for the Olimex, keeping the DI with its own PS might sound better still. Any of you tried that?


 
   
  I have been curious myself. I have a DI-DSP with PSU coming and will definitely test if powering both DI and olimex at same time using two PSU's makes a difference. I wonder though, in theory, if a difference should be expected.


----------



## BoyNamedSue

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Preferences -> Advanced -> Playback -> Full file buffering up to (kB): [put a really big number like 999999999999 for full buffering]
> Also in the same place you can change "Thread Priority" to 7 to make the playback thread run in "realtime."
> Are you using native sample and bitrates in foobar? I found 16/44.1 to match most of my source material made a slight improvement, and I heard a longer buffer can improve the sq in some cases though I did not notice a difference between 50ms and 250ms so just left at 250ms.


 
   
  Thanks for the tip. Made the changes and didn't notice a difference off the bat, but also didn't do any critical comparisons either.
   
  My output on foobar is set at 24bits with 50ms buffer, and the DI is upscaled to 96khz. I recall not noticing a difference changing the foobar bit rate and buffer size, but remember upscaling on DI smoothed out the sound a bit.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Gotta give JPlay a whirl.....thanks for the insight guys on the latest from JRiver. I'm currently using MC 15...time to upgrade I suppose now that I have integrated the PC into the main system at the new abode, (3D HT is fricken cool).
   
  Peete.


----------



## drez

I think upsampling to 96khz really seems to suite AudioGD DAC's - for some reason I even prefer 24/48 to 24/88.2 with my Reference 7.1 for some reason.  Guess I might have to give the DI DSP a try.


----------



## somestranger26

fourwed said:


> Hi somestranger26, I forget to ask you, what do you mean by " if it doesn't these seem to have 100% success rate". What happened if it was not successful?



The device would be plugged in but windows would show no audio devices installed. Basically just means you have to either unplug it for a while and try again or reboot computer.



julienm said:


> I did try feeding it with the DI-PSU, but I only noticed a slight difference, if any. I have to compare a litle further for a final conclusion. What I noticed though is that the Olimex device got quite hot! Not good for component longevity... Not sure why since the DI-PSU voltage is within parameters.
> But my guess of why it might sound better is because the Olimex device is not being powered by The computer PS. Maybe a wall wart for the Olimex, keeping the DI with its own PS might sound better still. Any of you tried that?



Doing comparisons of DI-PSU + Olimex -> Battery + DI vs Olimex -> Battery + DI I don't notice any difference. Don't worry about the olimex getting hot, it's designed to withstand such conditions. Mine has been in use for a year or more now I believe and still going strong although one of the crappy usb adapters I had broke (replaced by a much higher quality one). It'll get hot regardless of whether its fed by usb or the power supply in my experience. It may get warmer from the higher voltage since more heat is 'wasted' by the switching regulator to downregulate to +5V. 

When people earlier in the thread compared Olimex -> DI + PSU or Olimex + PSU -> DI found the latter to be superior for whatever reason. I think a wall wart for the Olimex would be pointless. IMO, use a high quality linear power supply like the DI one or something like what leeperry is using to power the olimex or just battery power the DI and don't worry about powering the Olimex.


----------



## clsidxxl

Audio-Gd website,a new look ,nice


----------



## Pacha

New DI V2 and DI DSP :
  http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/DIv2/DIv2EN.htm
   
  Any info about DSP3.1 and DI V2 new features?


----------



## kr0gg

Hi, Pacha 
  Haven't seen you for a while here.
   
  I guess most of us are interested in the new DI being async. Nobody's asked Kingwa about the DSP 3.1 difference from the old one


----------



## Pacha

Hey there 
   
  Well I'm going to be the first to ask him then.
  I'll keep you updated if I have any news from him.


----------



## darren700

the new DI's are supposed to start shipping today. however the new site's consignment section is not finished yet so who knows if they are shipping or not.
   
  edit:
   
  found the link for consignment, nothing since may 10th so far.
http://www.audio-gd.com/consignment.htm


----------



## Pacha

As I'm sure that most of you may ask themselves some of the questions I had about the new DIs, here is the reply I got from Kingwa :
   
   
  my questions were :
   > > - What are the new features of the DI V2, and what new features can be expected from DSP 3.1 on the new DI DSP?
  > > - What do you sincerely think about sound improvements over the old DI?

   
  > Dear Sébastien,
  > The most upgrade in the new DI-V2 is the USB chips TE8802, it is a 192K support asynchronous transmit chip.
  > It have better detail and extend then the TE7022 which is built in the old DI.
  > The DSP3.1 is quite similar with the DSP3 in the old DI.
  > It perform reduce jitter , process data and upsampling, but the TE8802 also can choice the sampling output in PC.
  > The sound sense is quite personal, we will start shipping the DI-V2 in next week.
  > The customers comment is always better than the saler comment.
  > Kingwa 
   
  So the major part of the improvements are supposed to come from the TE8802 chip and its asynchronous USB mode, over the old TE7022 chip.
  There still is the option of TCXO clock upgrade, but this time one can swap both TE8802 clock (used for asynch mode) and the upsampling clock on DI DSP version.
  I didn't find any review of different Tenor chips implementations on the same system, so I don't know what can be expected.
  I think about the Audiophilleo which is said to sound better than the DI, I don't know if the new DI is going to compete with it and potentially sound better, what do you guys think?


----------



## curiousmuffin

how muchs the audiophilleo? priceerformance wise di probably already won


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





darren700 said:


> found the link for consignment, nothing since may 10th so far.
> http://www.audio-gd.com/consignment.htm


 
   
  i guess you should pay attention to the year


----------



## Pacha

They're demanding a lot more for the audiophilleo, I would say an indecent price for a converter like this.
  Have a glance at it here :
  http://www.audiophilleo.com/buy.aspx


----------



## somestranger26

Yeah, even the 'cheaper' Audiophilleo 2 is way too expensive. 4x the price for the converter and then another $500 for a battery power supply. Only $40 with the DI-V2... good thing Audio-GD came out with this since I was starting to be tempted by the AP2's asynchronicity. For the record, I haven't gotten an email confirming shipment yet. Hopefully by Friday it ships?


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Yeah, even the 'cheaper' Audiophilleo 2 is way too expensive. 4x the price for the converter and then another $500 for a battery power supply. Only $40 with the DI-V2... good thing Audio-GD came out with this since I was starting to be tempted by the AP2's asynchronicity. For the record, I haven't gotten an email confirming shipment yet. Hopefully by Friday it ships?


 
   
  Maybe hearing is believing. I don't know, since I have not heard the AP2 before.
   
  I jumped from the DI (with upgraded clock) + Olimex + PSU to my current Stello U3 unit a year ago and I felt that the improvement has more than justified the slight price difference (Stello U3 sells cheap here in Asia). I think that a good external USB/SPDIF converter has often been ignored by many people but I guess all those who own the DI will know that it is a little bit harder to go back to life without the DI in your rig. The improvement is really not subtle, unless your DAC's onboard USB receiver is very good.
   
  I am interested to try (not buy) the AP2 someday down the road. Not so much on whether the price tag justifies it, but on how much more improvement can I obtain from it.


----------



## Pacha

What USB chip do you have in the Stello U3 ?
  Do you think most of the improvements come from asynch mode ?
  Was it a real leap ahead in comparison with the DI + PSU or was it quite subtle though obviously better ?


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





pacha said:


> What USB chip do you have in the Stello U3 ?
> Do you think most of the improvements come from asynch mode ?
> Was it a real leap ahead in comparison with the DI + PSU or was it quite subtle though obviously better ?


 
   
  It uses the XMOS chip.
   
  Not sure if the improvements are due to the asynch mode since there is no way I could verify that.
   
  Switching from the DI + PSU + Olimex to the U3 gives quite a significant improvement that is not subtle. The DI sounded veiled and slightly muddy in comparison (To clarify, I have never felt this way while I was using the DI but that was my experience when I made the jump).
   
  My U3 runs off USB power and it is already much better than the DI + PSU + Olimex. I could only imagine the SQ improving if I could use an external clean power source. Same goes for the AP2 and it further helps you to get rid of a coaxial cable in your audio chain. PSU upgrade is tempting but not a necessity.
   
  My point is not to encourage people to buy the U3, but to encourage people not to write the AP2 off because of its price thinking that the improvements it could bring to the table will not justify its price tag.
   
  The law of diminishing return holds for every audio equipment and what justifies the purchase of, for example, a $1000 DAC over a $500 DAC, is not twice the performance increase but of an improvement that seems fit to each of us.


----------



## leeperry

OK, but did you have the 1ppm TCXO clock upgrade in the DI? 
   
  4160 veils the trebles and modifies the SS drastically IME....but I like it like that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  This said, I'm ordering a USB-only DI-V2 and I will use it with a linear regulated PSU fed to a 4160 dongle in order to output I2S to my DAC via a very short RJ45 cable, it's gonna be good! I will post pics and impressions in due time.


----------



## kr0gg

yep. the much easier to use i2s on the new DI was one of the reasons i've ordered it.
  on the current DI i had to solder the i2s cable directly into it.


----------



## Pacha

Quote: 





uelover said:


> Switching from the DI + PSU + Olimex to the U3 gives quite a significant improvement that is not subtle. The DI sounded veiled and slightly muddy in comparison (To clarify, I have never felt this way while I was using the DI but that was my experience when I made the jump).
> 
> My U3 runs off USB power and it is already much better than the DI + PSU + Olimex. I could only imagine the SQ improving if I could use an external clean power source. Same goes for the AP2 and it further helps you to get rid of a coaxial cable in your audio chain. PSU upgrade is tempting but not a necessity.


 
   
  I know what you mean. I had the same feelings when I switched from the jkeny modified HiFace to the DI, I didn't found the HiFace to sound muddy or veiled but it couldn't compete when swapping it directly with the DI.
  I don't know if the DI V2 will sound as good as the U3 but the Stello must be pretty good then. Although, its price tag is much higher so the new DI has a point again on the market here.
   
  When I saw the bump in SQ going from a USB converter to another, or the improvements brought by a dedicated PSU for it, I guess there's a lot of headroom in the end before my DAC becomes the limitation of my system.
  I think there will be other big bumps in quality these next few years regarding USB converters, or we may see completely new type of converters arriving with new kind of technology, as this is a pretty recent market.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





pacha said:


> I know what you mean. I had the same feelings when I switched from the jkeny modified HiFace to the DI, I didn't found the HiFace to sound muddy or veiled but it couldn't compete when swapping it directly with the DI.
> I don't know if the DI V2 will sound as good as the U3 but the Stello must be pretty good then. Although, its price tag is much higher so the new DI has a point again on the market here.
> 
> When I saw the bump in SQ going from a USB converter to another, or the improvements brought by a dedicated PSU for it, I guess there's a lot of headroom in the end before my DAC becomes the limitation of my system.
> I think there will be other big bumps in quality these next few years regarding USB converters, or we me saw completely new type of converters arriving with new kind of technology, as this is a pretty recent market.


 
   
  I got my U3 for very cheap so I couldn't complain at all.
   
  New DACs are getting equipped with better USB receiver units. Could be a matter of time before all these USB converters disappear from the market. Nobody will know =)


----------



## leeperry

Quote: 





uelover said:


> New DACs are getting equipped with better USB receiver units. Could be a matter of time before all these USB converters disappear from the market


 
   
  The day I2S will replace S/PDIF will make us all very happy, no more sloppy slave mode clock recovery huh ^^


----------



## drez

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> OK, but did you have the 1ppm TCXO clock upgrade in the DI?
> 
> 4160 veils the trebles and modifies the SS drastically IME....but I like it like that
> 
> ...


 
   
  I just tried a ground breaking mod to my JKPDIF mk3 - I made a 7cm USB cable - really blew my mind.  I made it out of the same OCC copper wire used in my Neo D+ USB which I thought sounded crap (quite literally as I stripped to the D+ down to make the new cable).  Used parallel pair signal conductors and a separate ground wire, no +5V.  Only mylar/aluminium shield on the digital conductor pair, not grounded shield.  
   
  Honestly mind blown, it absolutely murders my 0.6M Furutech GT2.  BUT thing is HiFace was originally designed to be plugged directly into the USB port with no cable in between, and a 7CM OCC USB cable is about as close to that as possible, so not sure how this would work with other USB to SPDIF boxes.  With parts costing maybe $10 I would definitely recommend to try this though, it really is a huge difference with the JKSPDIF.
   
  I mean if you could get computer right next to DI right next to DAC all with ultra short cables I bet this would be insanely good, but I think the Audiophilleo style of hanging the USB to SPDIF converter directly off the DAC may not be the only way to optimise this kind of setup.  It is well worth the hassle of having to crawl on the floor to switch my JKSPDIF on and off twice a day, to put it another way.  I think the logic behind the AP approach is that they felt their USB receiver setup was robust enough not to worry about USB cable effects.  To be honest though I do wonder how much jitter/noise a good SPDIF cable would add anyway vs a direct SPDIF adapter, esp after passing through a PLL.
   
  I think the issue with I2S is that it doesn't pass through a PLL as SPDIF does so any jitter that is there is not filtered out at this stage as it is with SPDIF, thus why you want to keep the the cables as short as possible.  I guess the performance will depend on whether the I2S signal without filtering is as clean as the SPDIF after being processed by the digital input receiver chip.


----------



## Pacha

I've been using a quite good adapter (RCA-RCA) between DI and DAC since a while now (to get rid of SPDIF cable) and it's truly better than any cable I tried. Besides, I heard a few differences between adapters (tried 3 different brands). Good point also is that it's a very cheap solution.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





pacha said:


> I've been using a quite good adapter (RCA-RCA) between DI and DAC since a while now (to get rid of SPDIF cable) and it's truly better than any cable I tried. Besides, I heard a few differences between adapters (tried 3 different brands). Good point also is that it's a very cheap solution.


 
   
  which one are you using at the moment?


----------



## Pacha

Quote: 





drez said:


> which one are you using at the moment?


 
   
  I have 3.
   
  Please read this post I wrote quite a while ago :
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/446375/usb-24-192khz-m2tech-hiface/1800#post_6972839
   
  At the moment I use a Viablue adapter which sounds better to me than the two others mentionned in the post above. It is 24K gold-plated, dielectric seems to be teflon. It's longer and much heavier and looks far less cheap than the two others.
  http://hpics.li/19c45f2
   
  It was a bit hard to find it on the web but if you consider it, here's a link to buy it (more or less 6€ for a set of two pieces, I couldn't find somebody selling only one and I think this hasn't changed since then) :
  http://cgi.ebay.fr/2-Stk-ViaBlue-XS-RCA-Adapter-Cinchadapter-male-male-High-End-vergoldet-/330731622029?pt=DE_Computing_Audiokabel_Adapter&hash=item4d01240e8d#ht_2723wt_899


----------



## JulienM

pacha said:


> I've been using a quite good adapter (RCA-RCA) between DI and DAC since a while now (to get rid of SPDIF cable) and it's truly better than any cable I tried. Besides, I heard a few differences between adapters (tried 3 different brands). Good point also is that it's a very cheap solution.




Agreed! An adapter instead of a cable for the spdif connection is the way to go. I got a BNC to BNC from Markertek (US) that works quite well. I do have to suspend my DI to reduce stress. It's an odd instalation, but it does work very well.

Now my struggle is to build a USB cable that sounds better then my Monoprice. I've tried so many, and I always come back to the Monoprice... I guess they just build it right regardless of price. I like the Monoprice, but my experimentation never ends...

Hopefully the new DI will render all those USB tweaks pointless...


----------



## Pacha

Quote: 





julienm said:


> Hopefully the new DI will render all those USB tweaks pointless...


 
   
  I hope so! I'm tempted by the new DI I must say.
  I'm glad to see somebody else here use the adapter thing because I tried to promote it a bit a while ago to help people upgrade their setup for cheap but nobody took it in consideration so I let it be.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





pacha said:


> I hope so! I'm tempted by the new DI I must say.
> I'm glad to see somebody else here use the adapter thing because I tried to promote it a bit a while ago to help people upgrade their setup for cheap but nobody took it in consideration so I let it be.


 
   
  Haha I think it is not that nobody took it in consideration but it is not feasible for some of us. For me, there is no way I could mount my USB converter at the back of my DAC given space constraint on my desk. Given the design of my DAC, I can't mount it directly to my Macbook pro either.


----------



## LosNir

Yes, some setups are limited in space, especially desktop / computer ones. You must be very lucky to have the DAC & DI spdi/f connection in the same height, or use some funny trickery too.


----------



## drez

yeah adapters can be a bit tricky depending on setup - in my case I need to crawl to turn my USB transport on and off
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 still worth it though.
   
  With regard to USB cables I think the most important factor is length, and after that construction with material not being so important.  I had an OCC copper cable from Oyaide which sounded rubbish, took the conductors out, removed braided shield and made a 7cm cable and it sounds a million times better.  Same conductor material, similar wire geometry (parallel pair), just much shorter and without braided shield.  Monoprice must be doing something right.


----------



## Pacha

My DI leans a bit, it is supported by the cables behind my DAC so that's a bit funky I agree. The PSU sit comfortably on the desk just next to it. I imagine easily that some don't have enough space or cable arrangement allowing this kind of setup though. I suppose most of you guys may need to use a little dedicated support to hold the DI that could be placed vertically for instance in order to save space. That's making your setup looking weird like mine, but the sound quality and economy is worth it when you can implement it.


----------



## LosNir

drez said:


> yeah adapters can be a bit tricky depending on setup - in my case I need to crawl to turn my USB transport on and off:blink:  still worth it though.
> 
> With regard to USB cables I think the most important factor is length, and after that construction with material not being so important.  I had an OCC copper cable from Oyaide which sounded rubbish, took the conductors out, removed braided shield and made a 7cm cable and it sounds a million times better.  Same conductor material, similar wire geometry (parallel pair), just much shorter and without braided shield.  Monoprice must be doing something right.




In that regard, I'm wondering whether I should place the DI (when it arrives) on my audio stand, or just on top of my computer. The distance between the two is about 2 meters (or 6.5ft), so it is really a choice of 6.5ft usb cable vs 6.5ft coax cable. What do you think?

The only downside is that I won't be able to use I2S between DI & DAC (6.5ft definitely won't work!).


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





losnir said:


> In that regard, I'm wondering whether I should place the DI (when it arrives) on my audio stand, or just on top of my computer. The distance between the two is about 2 meters (or 6.5ft), so it is really a choice of 6.5ft usb cable vs 6.5ft coax cable. What do you think?
> The only downside is that I won't be able to use I2S between DI & DAC (6.5ft definitely won't work!).


 
   
  Taken from the Audiophilleo website:
   
  Quote: 





> *Is it better to have a longer USB cable or longer S/PDIF cable when the computer is far from the DAC?*
> 
> It is definitely better to have long USB cable runs instead of long S/PDIF cable runs. The S/PDIF cable carries the low jitter audio signal from which the DAC extracts its clock, and shorter cables help insure the highest accuracy.


 
   
   
  I have, however, also read some arguments saying that the S/PDIF cables should not be too short.
   
  But I believe that having a shorter coaxial cable is a safer bet.


----------



## JulienM

I've been experimenting with USB cable design and it seams that I might have beaten Monoprice after all. I still need some more listening to be conclusive.
   
  After building cast cables using Canare DA202. I decided to try them as USB as well. One needs 2 runs since they are twisted pairs. One run for the Data + and -, and another for V+ and Ground (or -). Shield connects to connector shield.
   
  So far I've built 2 1 meter USB cables, one using the DA202 which is a low capacitance 110 ohm AES/EBU digital cable, but also sounds great as an analog XLR or cast cable. The impedance is slightly higher than recommended, but that doesn't seem to be an issue. And another using Canare L-2E5 microphone cable. This is a miniature of the L-2T2S which is a 88 ohm cable (its impedance being within to the USB 2.0 cable specification of 90 ohms with a 15% tolerance - not sure how critical this is since 15% is quite a wide range). I've tested them both with a hard drive and speeds look like USB 2.0 (sorry, can't be more scientific than that). I also plan to have another USB cable built using L-2T2S.
   
  They both sound very good! I'm waiting for a little more break-in to start a shoot out. Probably early next week.


----------



## JulienM

Some pics to illustrate my recent posts:
   
  Canare DA202 USB cable with Olimex isolator fed by Agd DI-PSU.
   

   
   
  DI hanging on the back... Not very elegant, but very effective!


----------



## fourwed

I want to share my comparison of different power sources on DI and their differences with Audiophilleo 2.
   
*Equipments:*
  1. NFB-10SE (Filter: 5; Gain: Low), RCA coaxial input changed to Canare BNC.
_    I think the DI's BNC is better than its RCA, it sounds clearer although it is said to be the same._
   
  2. DI-V1 (No upscaling)
   
  3. HD650 (with DIY balanced Neutrik jack)
   
  4. USB isolator (No brand)
_     It must be powered by an external power supply, battery powered is the best and different power packs have different sounds. _
_     The power is directly feeded from the external power supply without regulation._
   
  5. Audiophilleo 2 (Thanks to my friend, David)
   
*Power sources:*
  1.1000mah unprotected 7.4V lithium polymer battery
   
  2. Linear power (8.4V, ripple noise < 0.5mVRMS.)
_    This power supply is for mobile phone maintenance. It is a cheap Chinese brand and the spec might not be accurate. _
_    However, I believe it is better than an average one._
   
*Player:*
  Battery powered Lenovo Notebook, foobar v1.1.11, Windows 7, WASAPI
   
*My comments:*
  If the DI is lithium powered, it is very bright, clear, bass well definited and the soundstage is large. However, the vocal seems to be moved to the both sides instead of the center which might be becasue of the larger soundstage. Upscaling makes it too bright and unbearable, especially string sounds. Even without upscaling, I feel fatigue after 2-hour listening because the sound is sharp.
   
  If I add a battery powered isolator to it, it will be less bright and others are more or less the same. The vocal moves back to the center. DI sounds the best with it and I do think it is 60%-70% of Audiophilleo 2.
   
  The linear power supply is not as good as lithium battery, although it is definitely better than USB powered. It sounds not as clear as lithium battery.
   
  Audiophilleo 2 stills shines, it is more musical and smooth. It is even better if I add a battery powered isolator. However, it carries a too hefty price tag.
   
   
   
  My DI with lithium battery

   
  BNC to BNC adaptor

   
  Linear power supply

   
  Isolator with 5V directly feed from battery
\
   
  2 different power packs for the isolator

   
  Compare with AP2


----------



## leeperry

Nice! What's the ripple spec of that PSU? It should be stated in its user manual.
   
  Does your USB isolator use linear voltage regulators? This matters quite a bit as well.


----------



## kr0gg

there's something wrong...
  you must be kidding about DI being bright
   
  1) it is considered the darkest sounding usb-spdif converter of them all.
  2) even with my W1000X i don't get any fatique
  3) i dont' get how HD650 can sound bright. i've borrowed them a month ago and they are really dark.
   
  on the opposite - it is AP2 which is often considered too bright and that is the usual reason why people get rid of it.


----------



## fourwed

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Nice! What's the ripple spec of that PSU? It should be stated in its user manual.
> 
> Does your USB isolator use linear voltage regulators? This matters quite a bit as well.


 

 Do you mean ripple noise? it stated <= 0.5mV RMS.
   
  My isolator itself should be powered from the USB port, the connected device (DI) is powered directly from the power packs (5V). The isolator has a power input like Olimex isolator and it claims that it is a linear voltage regulator. You could feed an 5V to 9V to it to power the connected device but I think it is inferior than the power packs.
   
  Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> there's something wrong...
> you must be kidding about DI being bright
> 
> 1) it is considered the darkest sounding usb-spdif converter of them all.
> ...


 
   
  Obviously I am not an audiophile. It is just my opinions and all are comparatively.
   
  Please correct me if I am wrong about "Bright". According to Headfonia,
   
                 *9. What do you mean by “bright”? (i.e a bright sounding headphone)*
                    Bright refers to a headphone with a lot of treble presence.
   
  I called it "Bright" because I notice the treble becomes more apparent and sharper, the warmth and muddy sounding are gone.
   
  HD650 is one of the dark and warm headphone and I agree. Before I buy mine, I searched the Internet and there should be two versions of it. The later version that I own was not as dark as the first version.
   
  I still remembered that I went to a local shop and compared the DT990, DT880 and HD650 in order to buy one. I think the DT990 and DT880 is more bright, exciting, clearer and thin sounding. I finally bought HD650. The HD650 was muddy in my FUN + Earth OPAMP. It becomes clearer and bright with my NFB-10SE. More so after I converted it and plug in the balanced output.
   
  DI is also dark and warm by default. In order to make it less dark, I use the DI's BNC connector and modded my 10SE to BNC connector too. Coaxial connection in audio should be 75ohm but DI's RCA might not be 75ohm (confirmed by Kingwa). Most RCA cable, adapter and connector are not 75ohm because it is not designed for coaxial connection. I copy the AP2 theory and use the BNC-to-BNC adaptor to connect them.
   
*Oh, I suddenly remember that I don't know whether my BNC-to-BNC adaptor is 50ohm or 75ohm, they look the same, might be the comparison are all wrong*
   
  When I upscale my DI to 96K, DI sounds more clear and little brighter. My comparison was started with the upscaled DI, but its sound with lithium battery powered was way too bright. Therefore, I redo my comparisons with the upscaling OFF.
   
  AP2 is definitely brighter than original DI in my opinion. Bright and fatigue is subjective too.


----------



## leeperry

Talking about I2S output from the DI-V2, I guess it'd make the most sense to cannibalize a cat6a cable? http://www.cableorganizer.com/articles/cat5-cat5e-cat6.htm
   
  Quote: 





> Category 6 is the most advanced and provides the best performance. Just like Cat 5 and Cat 5e, Category 6 cable is typically made up of four twisted pairs of copper wire, but its capabilities far exceed those of other cable types because of one particular structural difference: a longitudinal separator. This separator isolates each of the four pairs of twisted wire from the others, which reduces crosstalk, allows for faster data transfer, and gives Category 6 cable twice the bandwidth of Cat 5


 
   
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_6_cable#Category_6a
   
  Quote: 





> Category 6a performs at improved specifications, in particular in the area of alien crosstalk as compared to Cat 6 UTP, which exhibited high alien noise in high frequencies.


 
   
  I sure ain't seeking any alien noise 
   
  My DAC has a mini-din5 connector for I2S, so I'll cut the cable as short as possible, solder the right connector et voilà ))


----------



## LosNir

Me too, I think I'll use this patch cable - http://bit.ly/JXvM9d


----------



## kr0gg

i was thinking about using this cable:
  http://www.musicdirect.com/p-58121-audioquest-rje-cinnamon-ethernet-cable.aspx
   
  but the i2s lines are in a different order in my DAC 
  so i guess i'll either have to try to resolder the i2s module on the DI or i'll be forced to cut the cable.
   
  haven't ordered it yet, though.
  another problem is that i2s cables are recommended to be not longer than 10cm


----------



## drez

I would say length should be as short as possible and that should be the number one priority IMO.
   
  A good idea might be to buy the Audioquest cable and then cut it to length and share the cost with someone else using I2S.  Reterminating the cable will also save you from having to reconfigure the hookup wires in the DI.  You could also go all the way and do DIY and be able to chose the conductor but I don't know of any 28AWG good quality silver wire with teflon insulation.  I have some 28 AWG silver with cotton insulation but I don't think this will maintain as even wire separation as plastic dielectrics.  But then again cotton has a lower dielectric loss, so who knows which will be better.  I still have to try this silver wire in a USB cable to see how it compares to 28AWG stranded OCC copper in PET dielectric.
   
  EDIT: I think I spotted some 28 AWG OCC silver in PET dielectric, just from google search with those terms.


----------



## fourwed

Quote: 





julienm said:


> I've been experimenting with USB cable design and it seams that I might have beaten Monoprice after all. I still need some more listening to be conclusive.
> 
> After building cast cables using Canare DA202. I decided to try them as USB as well. One needs 2 runs since they are twisted pairs. One run for the Data + and -, and another for V+ and Ground (or -). Shield connects to connector shield.
> 
> ...


 
   
  JulienM, I am thinking to DIY a USB cable. Can't wait for your result.
   
  It is easy to find Canare cables here.


----------



## JulienM

fourwed said:


> JulienM, I am thinking to DIY a USB cable. Can't wait for your result.
> 
> It is easy to find Canare cables here.




Subjective impressions are very positive so far... Tomorrow I should start to compare their sound... I run some speed test with my hard drive, and they all perform just as well as a Monoprice USB cable for data transfers. At least it looks like I got the USB 2.0 specs right...


----------



## somestranger26

Glad you guys are having success with the DIY. Nice to see less skepticism around USB cables in this thread as people usually cast them off as placebo. Anyone got shipment email for the DI-V2 yet?


----------



## hawkhead

According to this page no DI-V2 have been shipped
   
http://www.audio-gd.com/Shipment.htm
  Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Anyone got shipment email for the DI-V2 yet?


----------



## LosNir

Also important not to get too caught up by cable voodoo!
(Speaks the guy who impulsively bought Wireworld 2M USB cable)

 JulienM, where did you get the usb plugs and the canare cable? I could only find the usb plug on DoubleHelix but shipping is $40!



somestranger26 said:


> Anyone got shipment email for the DI-V2 yet?




On May 16:



> Dear Nir,
> Yes, we plan to shipping at next week.
> Kingwa


----------



## modaudio

Quote: 





fourwed said:


> I want to share my comparison of different power sources on DI and their differences with Audiophilleo 2.
> 
> *Equipments:*
> 1. NFB-10SE (Filter: 5; Gain: Low), RCA coaxial input changed to Canare BNC.
> ...


 
   
  good work with the battery, but have u measured the battery output, if I am  not wrong, is the worst type of power supply! is meant for charging
   
  the last time I measure a sanyo eneloop portable battery charger, without oscilloscope, just a multimeter, the voltage fluctuations is crazy!


----------



## JulienM

Quote: 





losnir said:


> Also important not to get too caught up by cable voodoo!
> (Speaks the guy who impulsively bought Wireworld 2M USB cable)
> JulienM, where did you get the usb plugs and the canare cable? I could only find the usb plug on DoubleHelix but shipping is $40!


 
   
  I found the USB connectors here:
  http://www.pimfg.com/
   
  And the Canare cable from here:
  http://www.markertek.com/
   
  USB cable comparison coming very soon! No cable voodoo or audiophile gimmicks, just very affordable pro stuff!


----------



## preproman

Can someone point me to the review of this DI-DSP?


----------



## JulienM

This morning I was able to give a serious audition to all the USB cables I've being building for the past few weeks. And also evaluate the effects of the Olimex isolator in my main system.
   
  For your reference, the system consists of an Apple MBP 15" (latest model - also used for work) -> DI (with PS) -> NFB-8 DAC (with TCXO) -> C-3 (Final Version) preamp -> C-10 amp -> Thor speakers (fat cabinet, 100 liters).
  Interconnects are all cast using Canare DA202 cable.
  The system is plugged into a Agd power filter through DIY power cords (unshielded braided design).
   
  The computer USB output is set for 96KHz and 24 bit integer. The DI is set to pass through, and not over sample. Even with a Tent Labs clock, I found this arrangement to give a more detailed and spacious sonic presentation.
    
  I used 3 test tracks for evaluation. 
  Julieta Venegas and Marisa Monte - Ilusión (Volume set to 27)
 http://www.amazon.com/Julieta-Venegas-Mtv-Unplugged/dp/B0018OAPBQ/ref=sr_1_4?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1337630851&sr=1-4   
  Beethoven Symphony No. 9, 4th and 5th movements - Karajan + Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (Volume set to 42)
 http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Symphony-No-%7E-Karajan/dp/B000001GJR/ref=sr_1_13?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1337630952&sr=1-13

  And, once in a while, I would listen to various arias from Handel's Giulio Cesare just to check my perception, but I didn't use it for all cables.
 http://www.amazon.com/Handel-Giulio-Cesare-George-Frideric/dp/B000094HLD/ref=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1337631152&sr=1-3  
  All observations without the Olimex isolator.
   
  Monoprice USB
  Natural presentation with a good midrange. A bit dry and lacking finesse. Not as fluid as the Canare cables. A little congested on top. Capable of resolving a great deal of information but not as involving or dynamic. A bit boring. Competent cable, an excellent value!
  Presence: 7.5
  Sound stage: 8
  Choral goose bump factor: 7
   
  Canare DA202 (Blue)
  Very detailed and lush. Excellent definition. Brighter, more extended, and slightly faster than the other Canare cables. A little analytical on the top end, but with more air.
 Presence: 8  Sound stage: 9
  Choral goose bump factor: 9 (quite intense)
   
  Canare L-2T2S (Orange)
  More body than the DA202 but not as lush. Great micro detail and dynamic. Slightly dryer but more natural. Great texture and depth on strings. Cellos are very seductive and capable of goose bumps. This is a great cable to use as a USB connector. Very impressive!
  Building this cable is not so easy though, things get very tight at the USB terminations...
  Presence: 9
  Sound stage: 9
  Choral goose bump factor: 9.5 (amazing!)
   
  Canare L-2E5 (Black)
  Not as involving as the L-2T2S, but very close. I'd say 95% as good as the L-2T2S. Very natural with a big mid range full of detail. Well balanced and natural presentation. 
  Much easier to terminate than the L-2T2S due to the smaller gauge of the conductors.
  Presence: 8.5
  Sound stage: 8.5
  Choral goose bump factor: 8.5
   
   
  Canare L-2T2S with Olimex isolator
 In my main system, somehow not as transparent or exciting! Goose bump factor went down. Robbed micro detail and slowed the system down. The sound is more "round", helping lesser recordings. 
  It does work very well on my (more modest) family A/V system which consist of a mac mini feeding an Agd Fun using a chip amp to drive Seas coaxial speakers. A very musical system. With the Olimex in place, the system acquired more presence with a bigger midrange. I'm keeping the Olimex there for now!
    
   
  My first choice being the Canare L-2T2S! I'll have to build another for my family system... One could experiment mixing different cables for data and power sections. I might try different arrangements in the future, but I feel that the data section is the more significant in this scenario since the DI is being powered by its own power supply.
   
  As a quick disclaimer, these are my subjective opinions, experimentation is key. Be very carefully if you're building your USB cables. Make sure you test the cable for continuity and short circuits. It's easy to make a mistake and damage a component.


   
   
   
  The USB cables:

   
  The system:


----------



## DarknightDK

Nice! thanks for posting your impressions.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





julienm said:


> I found the USB connectors here:
> http://www.pimfg.com/
> 
> And the Canare cable from here:
> ...


 
   






  Why did I not find this seller earlier - I ordered my connectors for $3 each and paid $40 for postage.  I really should have shopped around more.  Ahh well I will know better if I ever have to order more connectors.  if I ever build another full length USB cable I will have to test the L - 2T2S - indeed I may have to try it out to compare against my Furutech GT2 which sells for around $125 just out of curiousity
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  For the latest USB cable I made I just took the conductors out of an audiophile cable thought sounded rubbish and used about 7cm to make a short cable, and what would you know the same conductors sound brilliant when they are 7cm long.  
   
  Do I remember correctly that the L - 2T2S is the one with 88 Ohms impedance?  It looks like a very well made cable!  How did you connect the braided shields (one end or both)?  I think if I do build a shielded cable I will use twisted pair as then there is less inductance between the conductors and the shield due to the geometry.  I think shielding around parallel pair as Neo D+ USB cable uses must just have to high inductance and capacitance or something.  Either way the geometry of that Canare L - 2T2S is certainly doing something right.


----------



## LosNir

Thanks JulienM, nice and short comparison! Just one thing I did not understand, you opted out of the Olimex in your main rig? In your family rig you are using Olimex + L-2T2S?

drez, you're pretty much lucky! DoubleHelix is my only option for me, as none of the other sellers ship outside of the U.S.
This looks fun and interesting. Maybe someone wants to help and sell me some connectors and wires?


----------



## JulienM

losnir said:


> Thanks JulienM, nice and short comparison! Just one thing I did not understand, you opted out of the Olimex in your main rig? In your family rig you are using Olimex + L-2T2S?
> drez, you're pretty much lucky! DoubleHelix is my only option for me, as none of the other sellers ship outside of the U.S.
> This looks fun and interesting. Maybe someone wants to help and sell me some connectors and wires?




If you're interested, I should be able to build you a USB cable using the L-2T2S. Send me a private message and we can discuss.


----------



## JulienM

drez said:


> Why did I not find this seller earlier - I ordered my connectors for $3 each and paid $40 for postage.  I really should have shopped around more.  Ahh well I will know better if I ever have to order more connectors.  if I ever build another full length USB cable I will have to test the L - 2T2S - indeed I may have to try it out to compare against my Furutech GT2 which sells for around $125 just out of curiousity
> 
> For the latest USB cable I made I just took the conductors out of an audiophile cable thought sounded rubbish and used about 7cm to make a short cable, and what would you know the same conductors sound brilliant when they are 7cm long.
> 
> Do I remember correctly that the L - 2T2S is the one with 88 Ohms impedance?  It looks like a very well made cable!  How did you connect the braided shields (one end or both)?  I think if I do build a shielded cable I will use twisted pair as then there is less inductance between the conductors and the shield due to the geometry.  I think shielding around parallel pair as Neo D+ USB cable uses must just have to high inductance and capacitance or something.  Either way the geometry of that Canare L - 2T2S is certainly doing something right.




Yes, it's the 88 ohms cable, which is within USB 2.0 specification. It is a twisted pair with a braided shield (all 3 Canare are). The specification asks for twisted pairs for the data pair.

I connect the shield at both ends. The connectors have to be adapted a bit for all that shield...

I'll take pictures of the building process when I build my next set.


----------



## hawkhead

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CANARE-CABLES-L-2T2S-1-M-/250884415467


----------



## Bojamijams

I hate to be 'that guy', but its hard enough convincing people that analog signal cables make a difference, now we're saying that digital cables make a difference? So the 10101101 signal in one cable sounds better then it does in the other?


----------



## kr0gg

nobody's convincing anyone in anything here.
  you don't believe our experience? no problem.
  try for yourself and see if your experiment will give you any difference.
  yes, it might not give any difference at all. but even then you would have no reason to convince people that they cannot possibly hear it.
  even if it is only in our minds - i don't see any problem with that.
  we enjoy it and as far as i know we don't hurt anyone with our enjoyment.
   
  on second thought, actually the only one here that is trying to convince anyone is you.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





bojamijams said:


> I hate to be 'that guy', but its hard enough convincing people that analog signal cables make a difference, now we're saying that digital cables make a difference? So the 10101101 signal in one cable sounds better then it does in the other?


 
   
  Yes that's why USB has a minimum specification for data cables to try to ensure that the digital signal is of a good enough standard.  In fact PCB design also has to take into account similar consideration of noise and jitter when products are designed.  Its the same reason we have asynchronous USB devices, SPDIF receivers with PLL's etc because digital signals are an analog waveform which is treated conceptually as 1 and 0.  The reason cables matter is that USB and digital input receivers are not perfect, and ferrite chokes and galvanic isolation are not perfect either.  A good USB cable will make it easier for the USB receiver to do it's job by presenting as square a digital waveform as possible with as little latency or delay as possible.  This is just my opinion of why USB cables might make a difference.
   
  There are quite a few threads on this in the sound science form but I would suggest not bothering to read into it too much especially when you can build an USB cable for around 5 dollars and test it out for yourself.  If you are wondering the consensus from the objective side is that USB cables should not make a difference, but I would take that with a grain of salt.  It is much more sensible to test for your self, controlled or not depending if you trust yourself.


----------



## leeperry

Quote: 





drez said:


> why USB cables might make a difference


 
   
  http://marlene-d.blogspot.fr/2012_01_01_archive.html


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> http://marlene-d.blogspot.fr/2012_01_01_archive.html


 
  From what I can see, the "distortions" he is "hearing" are way beyond human hearing, at -130db. What a joke, and a long winded one at that.


----------



## LosNir

Found some Canare L-2T2S @ Redco Audio
http://www.redco.com/shopexd.asp?id=539


----------



## drez

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> From what I can see, the "distortions" he is "hearing" are way beyond human hearing, at -130db. What a joke, and a long winded one at that.


 
   
  What is below -130 dB?  Clearly the graphs show noise and distortion metrics above -130 dB - granted without substantial differences in magnitude but differences in level and frequency are clear to be seen.
   
  Either way this thread is not the right place to be discussing this.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





drez said:


> What is below -130 dB?  Clearly the graphs show noise and distortion metrics above -130 dB


 
   
  I think tim3320070 meant distortions that only appear with some cables, but not others.
   
  In any case, I am not sure how much useful/reliable/repeatable these graphs are. Other than the usual limitations of RMAA, they seem to have been made by a loopback from the USB DAC to an internal sound card in the same computer. This likely created a ground loop between the USB port and the input of the sound card (something that does not happen under normal usage conditions of the USB DAC), and variations in the noise floor could have been related to that.


----------



## Pacha

I wouldn't be surprised too if he had these variations on ground measures from one measure to another using the same cable.


----------



## drez

I thought ground loop was caused by a potential difference between ground points?  EG. connecting a computer at one wall outlet to an amplifier at another wall outlet?  Have you had this sort of ground loop happen to you before?
   
  The accuracy of the computer Essence ST soundcarrd's ADC seems pretty good at 118 dB. ground loop and ADC/DAC accuracy does not explain correlation between performance data of the different USB cables between the two (or more) tests.
   
  Anyway why does anyone care how an USB cable affects the performance of a mid tier USB card?  Anyway you can count on audio skeptics to 1) question the validity of data and 2) question the audibility of the results.  I mean honestly is there even an equivalent study that shows USB cables to not measurable alter distortion? (this is a genuine question)
   
  Any---way if you fell like huffing and puffing about why you think USB cables don't matter there is already a thread for this :http://www.head-fi.org/t/554008/dont-get-why-audiophile-usb-cable-would-improve-sound-quality/795#post_8395914  Discussion there will not be off-topic.


----------



## tim3320070

My new DI-DSP is shipping next week (along with new NFB-16)- how's that for back on topic! And I'll be running my high-end USB printer cable to it along with my $4 Monoprice power cable as well- sorry, couldn't help myself.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





drez said:


> I thought ground loop was caused by a potential difference between ground points?  EG. connecting a computer at one wall outlet to an amplifier at another wall outlet?  Have you had this sort of ground loop happen to you before?


 
   
  Since the ground paths in the PC have non-zero impedance, and significant currents are flowing from the CPU, GPU, and other devices, there is indeed a voltage difference between different "ground" points of the same machine. If you do not believe, try doing a loopback test of a sound card with its own A/D, and then that of another card in the same PC. If the DAC and ADC are not on the same card, the noise levels are usually much worse. You can see that effect on the following graphs. Notice the large amounts of digital "crud" picked up in the D1->STX and STX->D1 tests:
   
  Xonar D1 D/A to Xonar D1 vs. STX A/D:
    
  Xonar STX D/A to Xonar D1 vs. STX A/D:
    
   
  With sufficiently low load impedances and/or sensitive testing, effects on the distortion can also be shown. Ignoring/not understanding this problem is a common mistake in RMAA/sound card based measurements.
   
  It is likely that in the USB DAC to sound card test linked above the amount of noise voltage that ends up in the audio signal depends on the impedance of the USB cable relative to that of the audio loopback cable, explaining the small variation in the results. Therefore, the test results are not relevant to typical real usage when there is no loopback cable.


----------



## drez

^ very interesting - so the lower graph is using STX DAC and D1 ADC?  Guess this does represent quite a problem for sound card based measurements such as the one linked before.  Thanks for the info.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





drez said:


> ^ very interesting - so the lower graph is using STX DAC and D1 ADC?


 
   
  Yes, it is the lower left one, while the upper right is D1 DAC and STX ADC.


----------



## Marlene

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> I think tim3320070 meant distortions that only appear with some cables, but not others.
> 
> In any case, I am not sure how much useful/reliable/repeatable these graphs are. Other than the usual limitations of RMAA, they seem to have been made by a loopback from the USB DAC to an internal sound card in the same computer. This likely created a ground loop between the USB port and the input of the sound card (something that does not happen under normal usage conditions of the USB DAC), and variations in the noise floor could have been related to that.


 
  I made these "measurments", it´s my blog someone was referring to.
   
  I made it clear from the beginning of my blog that my "measurments" should be taken with a grain of salt at best; of course the RMAA plots are nothing more than nice pictures. Needless to say that I repeated these "measurments" five times each - no change so I just took one of the several plots. Furthermore, after I published the article someone else pointed out that the effects I could see were created by a ground loop. Very likely from what I´ve read about it. I was planning to do a third article on USB cables but I was delayed, I don´t know when it´ll come out. 
   
  Yes, I used a loop from the Creative Soundblaster USB HD to my ASUS Xonar Essence ST, both connected/inside the same PC.
   
  But I´m interested: noise was reduced when I reduced the number of devices connected to one particular _internal_ (on mainboard) USB hub, the same to which the Creative was connected. But why? What´s the reason?


----------



## leeperry

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Marlene* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> noise was reduced when I reduced the number of devices connected to one particular _internal_ (on mainboard) USB hub, the same to which the Creative was connected. But why? What´s the reason?


 
   
  Hi Marlene, mostly coz they acted as extra antennae catching interferences....tin-foil hat audiophiles even unplug their keyboards because of this: http://cicsmemoryplayer.com/index.php?n=CMP.ApdxAAssembly
  Quote: 





> Remove superfluous cables from the case as they act as antennae and can cause RF interference. Disconnect the keyboard if possible.


 
   
  Personally, I tried to use a 12V laptop brick to feed all the fans but I didn't like it...I guess this nasty SMPS was throwing more noise into the mains than I expected ^^


----------



## kr0gg

Guys, do any of you use the Tentlabs XO clock?
  i'd like to know what to do with the ferrite bead that came with it.


----------



## fourwed

Since I might have a wrong BNC adaptor, I spent a little money to buy these two adaptor to have a try.
   
  Tyco Electronics
http://hongkong01.rs-online.com/web/p/products/394-0838/
   
  Telegartner
http://hongkong01.rs-online.com/web/p/products/112-1833/
   
  The Tyco is all plated with silver, while the other one is gold-plated brass in the contact.
   
  The Telegartner is made in Germany, I like it before I buy it because German made stuff are of very good quality in my opinion. The build quality is definitely better than the Tyco which is made in Taiwan.
   
  I think both of them are way better than my unknown cheap one and they also being better than the Audiophilleo bundled BNC to BNC adaptor. Anyway, I am glad that I bought them.


----------



## Marlene

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Hi Marlene, mostly coz they acted as extra antennae catching interferences....tin-foil hat audiophiles even unplug their keyboards because of this: http://cicsmemoryplayer.com/index.php?n=CMP.ApdxAAssembly
> 
> Personally, I tried to use a 12V laptop brick to feed all the fans but I didn't like it...I guess this nasty SMPS was throwing more noise into the mains than I expected ^^


 
  All right, I guessed that this could be a reason but I didn´t know. Instead of unplugging everything (would be pointless with a PC, wouldn´t it?^^) I just bought a new USB bracket for an unused hub on the mainboard. That solved most of it, the rest isn´t important.


----------



## seaice

Quote: 





pacha said:


> Please read this post I wrote quite a while ago : http://www.head-fi.org/t/446375/usb-24-192khz-m2tech-hiface/1800#post_6972839
> 
> At the moment I use a Viablue adapter which sounds better to me than the two others mentionned in the post above. It is 24K gold-plated, dielectric seems to be teflon. It's longer and much heavier and looks far less cheap than the two others.
> http://hpics.li/19c45f2
> ...


 
  Hi Pacha, many thanks for the tip!
   
  I have bought the ViaBlue RCA adapter. The sound is different and I tend to believe that it is better - highs are cleaner and extended. It is a strange experience because I previously swapped two different BNC cables (Canare and Blue Jeans) and it seems that the RCA adapter is better. I recommend this inexpensive experiment to everyone!


----------



## Pacha

Hey. You're welcome.
   
  I'm glad you also found that one can improve a setup by using a $5 adapter instead of using expensive digital cables and that they can sell these and refund themselves after having spent a lot for nothing. Again, I know some people won't have enough space to use that trick, but it's worth it when you can.
  It's not even talking about the adapter being a lot better (even if I felt an slight improvement also over an Oyaide priced at around $250), it's just that it's 5 bucks VS usually much more for the same performance if not better. Definitely cheap and worth a try.


----------



## kr0gg

got some good news here:
   
   
  Quote: 





> Dear Igor,
> We think can start shipping at today, we order some better USB cables for first batch users, will arrive in today.
> 
> Sorry for the delay.
> Kingwa


----------



## DarknightDK

Very nice! Looking forward to receiving my DI-DSP soon too!


----------



## darren700

Sweet, was wondering when they were gonna start shipping, have been checking the consignment page like a madman every couple hours.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





darren700 said:


> Sweet, was wondering when they were gonna start shipping, *have been checking the consignment page like a madman every couple hours*.


 
   
  Don't worry. Sanity is yours now =)


----------



## hawkhead

UK David DI-V2 EMS


----------



## kr0gg

lucky you 
  i guess i see tim3320070  there too


----------



## darren700

no DI-DSP's yet


----------



## kLevkoff

The S/PDIF cable (or connection) matters a lot; the USB cable and connection should not matter at all (within reason).
   
  The whole point of an asynch USB adapter (like the Audiophilleo or the HiFace) is that the adapter does the clocking instead of the computer. Since the clock is now generated by the adapter, any timing issues that occur before the adapter no longer matter (unless they are so bad that they actually change the numbers). The computer and cable now supply perfect numbers, the adapter supplies a very good clock, and the timing of the stuff coming in through the USB cable should no longer matter. (This means that, if you can hear a difference between USB cables with this type of adapter, it's only because the adapter is failing to entirely filter it out).
   
  The S/PDIF connection now becomes more important because, since it is AFTER the adapter, it has the opportunity to introduce new jitter into the process - and, since it's after the adapter, the adapter really has no control over it. Some adapters (like the AP) offer options about the shape of the data waveform at the output to try and improve this, and the quality of both the output driver in the adapter and the input receiver in the DAC matter a lot, but what really helps is either a direct connection or a really good (and really short) S/PDIF cable. Any of these will limit the overall signal quality, and can quite possibly completely negate the benefit of a fancy USB interface adapter if they're bad enough. A direct connection (like the AP uses) seems like the best choice there.
   
  In addition, any DAC that uses a sample rate converter CORRECTLY to eliminate jitter, or some other method of entirely reclocking the signal, should entirely obviate ANY audible differences of ANY upstream components since it, like an asynch adapter, uses the original data but entirely replaces the clock with its own (so the jitter should now be TOTALLY dependent on the jitter in the DACs clock and nothing else). Assuming this is done correctly, this should be the best solution, and should eliminate ANY audible (or measurable) differences between cables or interfaces.
   
  Anything like an upsampler, which creates entirely new numbers according to some algorithm, basically becomes an entirely new signal source - so how good IT sounds depends entirely in how good a job it does... and what's between it and the DAC.


----------



## kLevkoff

There seems to be a bit of confusion (by lots of folks) about the whole point of an asynch USB interface adapter l (like the Audiophilleo, or the HiFace).
   
  The whole point of an asynch USB interface is that the interface adapter supplies the clock for the data. If the interface does its job correctly, then the computer AND THE USB CABLE no longer matter at all unless they are so bad that they are incapable of providing the correct data when it is requested. If the interface adapter is doing its job, then you will NOT hear a difference between USB cables. If you DO hear an obvious difference between cables, then the adapter is NOT doing its job well.
   
  (Considering how bad the USB output is on most computers, I'm pretty surprised that cable differences would be audible at all. It's about equivalent to worrying about how much better stagnant pond water tastes from a particular crystal goblet instead of a paper cup. It's going to taste like pond muck either way. To continue that analogy, a good asynch adapter like the Audiophilleo is like distilling the water; you end up with pure water, and it would be really surprising if any of the taste of the pond scum makes it through.... and very important to prevent it from getting re-contaminated after it was filtered.)


----------



## hawkhead

Although my order says V2 I upgraded to a DSP
  Quote: 





darren700 said:


> no DI-DSP's yet


----------



## Pacha

Guys, please do let us know how the new DIs goes in comparison with the previous version, if the improvements are subtle or striking.


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> lucky you
> i guess i see tim3320070  there too


 
  Actually I would be "USA Tim" assuming you are referring to the Sweden Tim on the list. I have the DI-DSP and the NFB-16 coming.


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





klevkoff said:


> There seems to be a bit of confusion (by lots of folks) about the whole point of an asynch USB interface adapter l (like the Audiophilleo, or the HiFace).
> 
> The whole point of an asynch USB interface is that the interface adapter supplies the clock for the data. If the interface does its job correctly, then the computer AND THE USB CABLE no longer matter at all unless they are so bad that they are incapable of providing the correct data when it is requested. If the interface adapter is doing its job, then you will NOT hear a difference between USB cables. If you DO hear an obvious difference between cables, then the adapter is NOT doing its job well.
> 
> (Considering how bad the USB output is on most computers, I'm pretty surprised that cable differences would be audible at all. It's about equivalent to worrying about how much better stagnant pond water tastes from a particular crystal goblet instead of a paper cup. It's going to taste like pond muck either way. To continue that analogy, a good asynch adapter like the Audiophilleo is like distilling the water; you end up with pure water, and it would be really surprising if any of the taste of the pond scum makes it through.... and very important to prevent it from getting re-contaminated after it was filtered.)


 
  I think you just burst some people's bubbles....


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





hawkhead said:


> Although my order says V2 I upgraded to a DSP


 
  my guess is they are are called that for shipping


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> I think you just burst some people's bubbles....


 
   
  Not really. There are companies like Audiophilleo who believes that USB cable affects the sound on their product and even advised their customer to get one. They bundled the basic wireworld ultraviolet in their Audiophilleo 1 package.
   
  The best way to test if USB cable affect/doesn't affect your rig is to compare using (1) the stock USB cable and (2) a USB A-B Male-Male adapter. If there is no audible difference, then it is good. If there is an audible difference, that means that the USB cable, for whatever reason, is still culpable.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> I think you just burst some people's bubbles....


 
   
  My bubble is totally burst 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Does that guy ever actually post about equipment or just anti USB cable interface lectures.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The argument is ridiculous anyway its like "all whisky is distilled, so it should all taste the same, therefore I will never try different whisky because I think it shouldn't matter"  Feel free to replace whisky with any other food or beverage.


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





drez said:


> My bubble is totally burst
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Wine?


----------



## LosNir

Should we try to ferment & olden our usb cables inside barrel's in the basement? 

Just got an email from Audio-GD:



> Dear Nir,
> We had sent out your goods,and because the DHL number need 2 - 3 days wait DHL company upgrade to us,so that we will sent the tracking number to you as long as we get your tracking number.
> 
> Audio-gd Sai


----------



## drez

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> Wine?


 
   
  Wine isn't distilled (I get the joke though)


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





losnir said:


> Should we try to ferment & olden our usb cables inside barrel's in the basement?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I have found that this is a standard cut and paste email- it is usually prepared for shipment and will go out the next run they make, not actually the day they sent the notice.


----------



## BoyNamedSue

Sightings of DI-DSPs on audio-gd shipping page. Unfortunately none are mine =(.


----------



## darren700

me neither 
  did you have upgraded clocks?
  mine did, that might be the reason for the delay....


----------



## LosNir

tim3320070 said:


> I have found that this is a standard cut and paste email- it is usually prepared for shipment and will go out the next run they make, not actually the day they sent the notice.




Turns out it is for real :rolleyes:



> Israel Nir DI-V2-S DHL


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





losnir said:


> Turns out it is for real
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yep, I was wrong here about V2 vs DSP. My name is missing unfortunately. I thought I might be an early recipient.


----------



## ursdiego

*Request Linux-Compatibility from the TE8802 - responsible with this sampel mail!!!*
   
  To: *info.chiu@gfec.com.tw* !!! Let's do it EVERYBODY! This might help!!!
   
Mr. Info Chiu is product responsable at Galaxy Far East Corp, the producers of the TE8802
   
  Sample Text:
   
  ---
   
  To:
  info.chiu@gfec.com.tw
   
  Subject:
 TE8802L: Please provide full Linux-Compatibility for asynchronous mode

 Att.:
  Mr. Info Chiu
   
  Dear Sir

 I own a recent USB audio interface from the brand "audio-gd", that incorporates a TE8802L - Chip as a USB interface.

 However, I was unfortunately disappointed, when I wanted to use it, to listen to music from my Linux-based computer. There was a compatiblity issue, and the manufacturor of my DAC could not provide for any suitable drivers. It seems, that they are not yet developped for the TE8802L.

 This does not only concern myself. There is a very large computer-audio-using community using Linux-based systems, who would like to connect their DACs in Asynchronous Mode, by Audio Class V2.0. You can easily confirm this by reading in forums where some consumers of hifi-equipments exchange their experiencies.

 Other asynchronous interfaces connect to Linux natively and work flawlessly.

 This concerns not only computer users, but as well the large community of Linux-based "Logitech Squeezebox Touch" users, who want to use the optimal quality by using the USB port for the asynchronous connection of a USB DAC (with the "Enhanced Digital Output App")

 I hope, that you will soon provide asynchronous USB compatibility for Linux, in cooperation with the Linux developer community and the Logitech Squeezebox developers. Please make sure that the necessary drivers are incorporated into the Linux distributions and into the Squeezebox Touch with a near-future-software update.

 I thank you very much in advance for your attention and your efforts in providing a largely compatible USB Audio Class V2.0 interface, and I am looking forward to your answer.

 Sincerely yours!

 ---
   
*I did it. Let us know it here, when you did it, too! THANKS!!!*


----------



## ursdiego

Request Linux-Compatibility with Arthur's alternative to-the-point words:
   
  Mail it to the TE8802L - responsible:
  info.chiu@gfec.com.tw
   
_"Mr. Info Chiu_
   
_There are many enthusiasts (audiophile) media players with Linux-based firmware. Support for external USB DAC's is now common. Asynchronous mode TE8802L Linux drivers will help ensure success for the future of GFEC semiconductors. Thank you for your consideration.

 ..."_
   
  (Arthur's original post here!)


----------



## LosNir

The DHL guy was here a few hours ago, and dropped a special package from Audio-GD!


----------



## kr0gg

so you should already have a ton of experience with the new DI ! 
  share it!


----------



## LosNir

Actually not yet, I need to wait for other stuff to arrive. But I will make a brief overview later 

In the meantime, some eye-candy:






















There is one bad thing though - Kingwa forgot to upgrade my clock to TCXO.


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





losnir said:


> There is one bad thing though - Kingwa forgot to upgrade my clock to TCXO.


 
   
  i hope it won't be my case too...
  by the way - what are those separate orange boards with wires and capacitors on your pictures?
  also the usb cable doesn't seem to be "a higher quality cable" which was one of the reasons they had such a delay in shipping.
   
  anyway - my congratulations 
 you seem to be the first one here who received the DI


----------



## LosNir

Those orange boards are OPA Lead Extenders with a a filter cap.
http://audio-gd.com/Pro/diy/OPA/OPAEN.htm

The usb cable looks like a standard, tin-plated on the connector, and gold-plated on the contacts cable. It doesn't look fancy, but it probably has shielding and stuff.


----------



## kr0gg

i see that you've ordered an i2s extender too.
  which DAC are you going to use it with and how will you connect it?
  i'm mostly interested in experiments with cable lengths and materials - to see how much difference they will make.
   
  (one of the reasons i've ordered the new DI was that i2s on it is easier to use than on the DI1)


----------



## LosNir

I'm going to use the I2S out for a DIY TDA1541 DAC (not yet built).

I temporary connected the DI-V2 to my computer using my Wireworld Ultraviolet USB cable, feeding my heavily-modded Valab NOS DAC. I can clearly hear definite upgrade - highs and mids are more revealing and forward, mid-bass has more texture.

This is without the Polabs USB Isolator (ADUM4160), Li-Poly battery, Canare USB cable and an upgraded clock 

Edit:

I'm just listening to Infected Mushroom - The Pretender (Foo Fighters cover) and so far this reveals the most differences. I can clearly hear sounds that wasn't there before.. small nuisances. Everything is much more forward. Bass is punchier.

Now for the "bad" things:

- I'm using foobar2k with WASAPI out plugin, and sometimes when I switch a song, it is stuck at 00:00 with no sound, or I hear some static noise. This didn't happen with my Valab's USB Interface.
Edit2: I didn't do a restart, so this might be the cause - but I'm to lazy to do so, maybe later, when excitement wears off :rolleyes:


----------



## kr0gg

what digital source did you previously use?


----------



## LosNir

losnir said:


> This didn't happen with my Valab's USB Interface.



:rolleyes:
I also used my NFB-12 USB input (with the built-in dac, which I think is not as good as the valab), but the DI blows them both.

This is my first dedicated digital source interface I have, so my words are probably already familiar 

Edit: 

Once more, Nighwish - Nemo reveals much more details than before. I'm so happy!


----------



## DarknightDK

Quote: 





losnir said:


> There is one bad thing though - Kingwa forgot to upgrade my clock to TCXO.


 
   
  Just received my DI-DSP today. How can I tell if my DI-DSP has both clocks upgraded?


----------



## LosNir

It can be seen on my last picture. You have to open the top cover and look for shiny metal rectangle / squares. If you have a square, it is the normal clock, if you have a more wide rectangle, you have the upgraded clock. The upgraded clock should also have "TCXO" imprinted on it.


----------



## somestranger26

kr0gg said:


> also the usb cable doesn't seem to be "a higher quality cable" which was one of the reasons they had such a delay in shipping.



Yeah, sure. Convenient excuse for shipping the DI 3 weeks late (I could get 100,000 monoprice usb cables in 2 days). From Kingwa 3 days ago: "We are make more test before shipping so we shipping not much every day."


----------



## Patu

I received my DI-DSP-S + PSU today. I wanted it with custom green leds since my Naim equipment has green leds. I got it with green leds but unfortunately they are far from Naim-green. Very bright green, I have to figure a way to dim them.
   
  Anyway the unit sounds fantastic. I come from DI v1 and it's a clear upgrade to that. I can find new nuances from records and the bass goes clearly deeper with more punch. One could once again say, "there's more of everything". I also tried with some 24/176 material and it played fine when using ASIO output. So my first impressions are very positive. I also opened my unit since LosNir wrote about forgotten upgrade clocks. Mine has two TCXO's, just as ordered.


----------



## Meloncoly

Just received my DI-DSP and it isn't working on my desktop. When I go to Device Manager on Windows 7 x64, it detects it but it has this error, "This device cannot start. (Code 10)". I've tried using other USB ports, and a USB hub, but to no avail. Sadly, I plugged it into my Macbook Pro and it instantly worked. Tried installing the TE8802 drivers, but that didn't work either. Any advice, anyone?


----------



## DarknightDK

You probably have to re-install the drivers for the TE8802 again for the DI to work.


----------



## Meloncoly

Quote: 





darknightdk said:


> You probably have to re-install the drivers for the TE8802 again for the DI to work.


 
   
  When I use the driver setup that audio-gd has on their website, it always gives me an error. "There is a problem with this Windows Installer package. A program run as part of the setup did not finish as expected. Contact your support personnel or package vendor."


----------



## Kingwa

Quote: 





meloncoly said:


> When I use the driver setup that audio-gd has on their website, it always gives me an error. "There is a problem with this Windows Installer package. A program run as part of the setup did not finish as expected. Contact your support personnel or package vendor."


 
  Please try to click the X64 driver to install.
  The download files must unzip by RAR.
  Customer can send email to us ask the drivers send through email.


----------



## ursdiego

Update for Linux/SBT users: Info Chiu from gfec replied!
   
  He will probably send me a testing flash file, that shoud allow to make the audio-gd board with TE8802L on it Linux compatible.
   
  I will let you know about the outcome as soon as I have the chance to test that all and to try to hook it up to my Squeezebox Touch.
   
  Cheers


----------



## kr0gg

does anybody know what this info (from audio-gd site) is supposed to mean?
   
   
  Quote: 





> Please note : The DI and NFB-16 stock USB cables are the custom order low impedance cable, if users only power supply by USB, before replace the USB cable please make sure the new cable had enough low impedance.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> does anybody know what this info (from audio-gd site) is supposed to mean?


 
  If you don't use a battery or power supply, and you want to use an aftermarket usb cable then you need to make sure it has 'low enough impedance.' Not sure what impedance spec he is referring to, though.


----------



## drez

I think it means that the cables are designed with low impedance V+ and Ground conductors so that the NFB16 and DI are able to be powered properly from the USB port, and that if you wish to chose another cable to make sure the power conductors are up to the task or something.


----------



## ceausuc

Quote: 





patu said:


> I received my DI-DSP-S + PSU today. I wanted it with custom green leds since my Naim equipment has green leds. I got it with green leds but unfortunately they are far from Naim-green. Very bright green, I have to figure a way to dim them.
> 
> Anyway the unit sounds fantastic. I come from DI v1 and it's a clear upgrade to that. I can find new nuances from records and the bass goes clearly deeper with more punch. One could once again say, "there's more of everything".


 
  Are you using Windows? When evaluating are you using headphones or your speakers setup? Could you please unplug the PSU and see if that matters? Ever tried the Hiface2?  A lot of questions I know but this thing is still pretty new... Thanks.


----------



## LosNir

If you have problems with the installer, make sure you extracted it *and not just double clicked* the setup file.


----------



## hawkhead

I am running Windows 7 64 bit and the driver installs OK


----------



## Patu

Quote: 





ceausuc said:


> Are you using Windows? When evaluating are you using headphones or your speakers setup? Could you please unplug the PSU and see if that matters? Ever tried the Hiface2?  A lot of questions I know but this thing is still pretty new... Thanks.


 
  Windows 7 x64
   
  Nowadays I mostly use my speaker setup. I still have HD600 with Cardas cable but they pretty much gather dust on the shelf. 
   
  I haven't tried it without the PSU yet. I have no plans on using it without it so I don't really care. But I'll see if I have interest to compare the sound with and without PSU.
   
  Yes, I have tried HiFace2. I borrowed one (BNC) some time ago from my local dealer. I directly compared it to Digital Interface V1. HiFace2 sounded good, clearly more bass than with DI but maybe even too much. In my opinion the sound wasn't in perfect balance. There was maybe little too much bass to my taste with HiFace2. Otherwise it extracted slightly more details than DI but DI sounded more balanced to my taste. Also I currently have a 5m Chord USB cable going from my computer to DI so Hiface2 would've needed new cabling. I already knew about DI-DSP so I decided to wait for it and I'm happy that I did. 
   
  I would say that DI-DSP is closer to Hiface2 in sound than it is to DI v1. If I would have to compare DI-DSP to Hiface2 out of my memory, I'd say that DI-DSP takes everything little bit further. It gives better details and more balanced sound when Hiface2 clearly improved on low frequencies but I wasn't sure if I liked the rest.


----------



## LosNir

I got the Teralink-X2/X1 copper power cable, so I will mod it suit my polymer battery, and THEN the game is on


----------



## rictee

Quote: 





patu said:


> I haven't tried it without the PSU yet. I have no plans on using it without it so I don't really care. But I'll see if I have interest to compare the sound with and without PSU.


 
  I would be interested to hear what difference the PSU makes.  Would be great if anyone else can chime in too...


----------



## arnaud

I've just received my DI-DSP today (standard clocks I believe) but unfortunately it's not playing well with my mac:

 It starts to play fine for 5 seconds or so but then transforms into an awful mess of distortion as if it can't keep with the flow of data.
 I tried both 44.1kHz and higher clock speeds, same problem.
 I tried to run through Pure Music and also directly through iTunes (selecting the device from the midi-list), same problem.
 Tried to reboot the computer, disconnect / wait / reconnect in pure music, same problem.
 Tried to disconnect / reconnect / restart the DAC, same problem.
   
  I did not have any issue with the previous DI+PSU (BTW, I am powering the DI-DSP from the USB) and there is no way my quad-core MCP'11 can be the source, esp. at 44.1kHz. Anyone ran into these problems? I am running out of ideas on what to try.
   
  Many thanks in advance,
  arnaud
   
  Edit: just checked the website and it seems like I need a custom driver for OSX, is that right? Then, it probably explains why it's not working right at the moment lol.


----------



## arnaud

Ok, nevermind! Driver installed in 1 minutes, reboot in 15 seconds, playing through Pure Music like a charm...
   
  Tried some DSD (converted to 176.4 PCM on the fly by PM), 176.4, 96, 88.2 and 44.1, no problem!


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





rictee said:


> I would be interested to hear what difference the PSU makes.  Would be great if anyone else can chime in too...


 
  It made from no difference to a very subtle difference in my experience from the original DI.


----------



## arnaud

May be placebo but I can't take the headphones off my head! It's like, how to say, music is flowing nicely!!! I'll have to plug in the old one again to see how my mind is playing tricks here but it feels like every every instrument is very easy to pick up from the others and follow. Also, I am yet to run across a recording that sounds harsh through my stax rig (009) with this new DSP, I am playing through the library randomly so it may be just luck .


----------



## LosNir

tim3320070 said:


> It made from no difference to a very subtle difference in my experience from the original DI.




Same experience with the DI v2 and a high quality polymer battery and cable.
Some pictures of the build process:


----------



## DarknightDK

Listening from the Mac > DSP > Ref 7.1 as compared to the DX100 > Ref 7.1, the music seems to be presented differently. Via the DSP, there seems to be better instrument separation and depth. Vocals also seem to be more forward presented and natural. The DSP makes music sound more 'analog' (i.e. the audio gd house sound). However, I do note that background instruments seem softer / more distant while bass sounds less tight and less deep.
   
  Still trying to put my head around the differences and I can't decide which transport I prefer at this point in time. From memory, I felt that the sound from the DX100 (as transport) was more engaging. Have yet to do a proper comparison.


----------



## ceausuc

Quote: 





patu said:


> Windows 7 x64
> 
> Yes, I have tried HiFace2. I borrowed one (BNC) some time ago from my local dealer. I directly compared it to Digital Interface V1. HiFace2 sounded good, clearly more bass than with DI but maybe even too much. In my opinion the sound wasn't in perfect balance. There was


 
   
  Thank you! So when you tried the Hiface2 there you used no usb cable(computer->hiface2->digital cable->dac), while for the DI you have very long USB cable? Doesn't this cable impact the performance of the decoder?
  As for the PSU I'm only interested in the differences that you may hear in the first 60 seconds of one of your favorite songs. Maybe you can find the time for this after you will get used to the sound of the new DI.


----------



## fourwed

There is a great news for me and the old DI users. Kingwa said that he will post the old DI TE8022 modification guide tonight.
   
  It is very nice of him since most manufacturers will force you to upgrade your gear in my opinion.


----------



## LosNir

If anyone is considering a battery-powered DI, I recommend this one:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=8578

This is the battery I'm using (see my last post), it is cheap ($12.99) and of very high quality.


----------



## veritas aurum

Has anyone changed the SPDIF output buffer? If so what were your conclusions? Better or just different? Thanks


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





losnir said:


> If anyone is considering a battery-powered DI, I recommend this one:
> http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=8578
> This is the battery I'm using (see my last post), it is cheap ($12.99) and of very high quality.


 
   
  but you said that you didn't notice much difference


----------



## LosNir

kr0gg said:


> but you said that you didn't notice much difference




I personally didn't hear a significant difference, but that doesn't mean others won't. Also I didn't use it with a usb isolator, so this might be the "bottleneck".


----------



## tme110

it's good to see that people are finally getting these and now waiting for more reviews...


----------



## BoyNamedSue

Got mine yesterday, and to my ears, the DI-DSP is a definite step up from v1. The improvements were immediately noticeable, and I agree with a previous observation that there is better detail and separation. The highs are a bit more crisp and the bass goes a bit deeper with better punch. The ambient sounds are more fleshed out and I am hearing new things on tracks I have listened to many many times before.
   
  For anyone who's curious, I couldn't get the olimex to work with the DI-DSP. I don't mind as the DI-DSP sounds better to me than the DI v1 with all the tweaks. I couldn't get the olimex working with async usb input of my antelope zodiac either, so I am not sure if galvanic isolaters are generally not compatible with async usb's.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





boynamedsue said:


> Got mine yesterday, and to my ears, the DI-DSP is a definite step up from v1. The improvements were immediately noticeable, and I agree with a previous observation that there is better detail and separation. The highs are a bit more crisp and the bass goes a bit deeper with better punch. The ambient sounds are more fleshed out and I am hearing new things on tracks I have listened to many many times before.
> 
> For anyone who's curious, I couldn't get the olimex to work with the DI-DSP. I don't mind as the DI-DSP sounds better to me than the DI v1 with all the tweaks. I couldn't get the olimex working with async usb input of my antelope zodiac either, so I am not sure if galvanic isolaters are generally not compatible with async usb's.


 
   
  As far as I know isolators won't work with the HiFace 1 also -  but I think this might be due to drivers rather than asynch itself.  The AP2 apparently works with an isolator and that doesn't use drivers.  Not sure about XMOS based systems with Thescyon drivers.  Either way with the original DI I did not consider the OMILEX isolator an upgrade as it led to slightly reduced detail and focus.  My current philosophy is to put as little between the USB controller and the USB transport as possible (achieved with a PCOCC 7cm usb cable), and this has borne significantly improved focus, detail and timing, the exact opposite result from adding the OMILEX in my experience.


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





losnir said:


> I personally didn't hear a significant difference, but that doesn't mean others won't. Also I didn't use it with a usb isolator, so this might be the "bottleneck".


 
  This battery type and price (at proper voltage) would be a good source for the NFB-16 for those getting that unit, so thanks.


----------



## veritas aurum

If you are using a CD transport and have a very revealing system, get the DI-DSP and power supply today! Enough said. It improved the sound of my Anedio D2! Every bit of jitter reduction helps. Regards


----------



## LosNir

tim3320070 said:


> This battery type and price (at proper voltage) would be a good source for the NFB-16 for those getting that unit, so thanks.




Yeah, for people thinking about getting the DI-V2S, I recommend holding the purchase for a little while, so first impressions of the NFB-16 comes up, this might be a better deal.


----------



## DarknightDK

Quote: 





veritas aurum said:


> If you are using a CD transport and have a very revealing system, get the DI-DSP and power supply today! Enough said. It improved the sound of my Anedio D2! Every bit of jitter reduction helps. Regards


 
   
  Do you mean using the DI-PSU as the power supply for the DSP? Some have said that using batteries sound better with the DSP.


----------



## ursdiego

*Got my DI-DSP, DI-PSU, 2x TCXO. Sounds good. Async USB not working on SBT.*
   
  First impressions:
   
  I have to precise, that I hook it between a Squeezebox Touch and a Reference 9 DAC from audio-gd:
  SBT -> spdif -> DI-DSP -> spdif  -> RE9
   
  So. I did not expect the difference to be extremely big. As Reference 9 already features a DSP1, that does, as far as I understand, a similar job as DSP 3.1. inside the DI-DSP.
   
  First impression: a bit harsh. However, this could be a question of a bit of time until it gets breaked-in. Kingwa sais, that it makes an effect in particular on the clocks.
   
  Bass appeard stronger and a bit tighter. But apart from that the differences were rather subtile as expected.
   
  Then I set it to upsample to 96khz.
   
  WHAT a difference on 44.1k -files! More detail, much tighter bass, much more "to the face" character of the sound. Trebles shrill, depending on the recording. Maybe just more revealing.
   
  I will let it burn in a bit more, until I make more precise 1:1 comparisons with the DI-DSP in place and the direct connection to RE9.
   
  HOWEVER: I tried to get async USB connection to work. That is, in fact, one of the main reasons I got the DI-DSP, because it has the TE8802L - USB - input. This might overcome some shortcomings of the spdif - output of the squeezebox touch.
   
  It did not work. Althoug I got a test-firmware from the vendor of the TE8802L, that is supposed to make it Linux-compatible. It worked on 44.1k - files, but based on the log-outputs it suppose, that transfer was synchronous, not async. And higher resolution files crackled awefully. So I have to wait, until Tenor developps their firmware further for more compatiblity to Linux-platforms - in particular the SBT.
   
  Cheers!


----------



## JulioCat2

I hope someone with a DI V2 test if Integer mode works in the beta version of audirvana+ in lion.


----------



## Patu

What was the program for testing if the signal is async or not?


----------



## somestranger26

Finally got my DI-V2-S with TCXO today (DHL was supposed to deliver it on Friday...). I can confirm that it will NOT work with the isolator. When used with the isolator the DI-V2 shows up as a "TE-8022 SPDIF Audio Device" and the Audio-GD control panel does not allow changing the sample rate, etc. but in the Windows sound control panel it shows 44.1, 48, 88.2, and 96kHz available. It will actually play this way, but the music will stutter like crazy at the beginning and any time you want to seek the track, skip to the next song, etc.
   
  Without the isolator, the DI-V2 shows up as "Audio-gd USB Audio Device" and the A-gd cpl works correctly, and no stuttering or dropouts whatsoever. This leads me to believe that if the drivers were written differently, or if Windows had a built in driver for the TE-8022 like it does the TE-7022, that the isolator may still work. However, I cannot really comment on any sound quality differences because the stuttering makes it nigh impossible to compare.
   
  It seems to sound better than the DI in some regards, and worse in others, but overall it seems to be an upgrade. Maybe it just needs to burn in some. I had DI with 74VHC04N upgrade, and used it with isolator and battery. I'll comment more once I have some more listening time.


----------



## LosNir

I just got my PoUsbIso recommended by leeperry, so far it works (as "TE8802 usb audio device"), audio is clean.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





losnir said:


> I just got my PoUsbIso recommended by leeperry, so far it works (as "TE8802 usb audio device"), audio is clean.


 
  What software are you using, and what are your settings for things like buffer length? Are you using WASAPI, ASIO, KS, or DirectSound?
   
  I wonder if it's the Olimex that isn't working or something software related?


----------



## LosNir

I'm using foorbar2k WASAPI (it's in my sig), 24 bit, 50ms buffer length.


----------



## leeperry

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> I wonder if it's the Olimex that isn't working or something software related?


 
   
  uninstall those proprietary drivers, sounds like they are interfering. You need vanilla UAC1 and yes, TE8802 does have a backward compatible mode that'll work up to 24/96.


----------



## kr0gg

without those drivers the DI will work, but it won't be asynchronous.


----------



## leeperry

TE8802L won't do async over 12MBit/s anyway.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> uninstall those proprietary drivers, sounds like they are interfering. You need vanilla UAC1 and yes, TE8802 does have a backward compatible mode that'll work up to 24/96.


 
  I am using the same settings as LosNir, and I tried uninstalling the drivers and restarting. The problem persists. I'm going to reinstall Windows and see if that works 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I was planning on reinstalling soon anyway.


----------



## kr0gg

Received my DI, gonna test it this evening.
  I can't tell you how much i hate the glue which they use to hold XO units...
  Does anyone know why the usb/psu power switch on the back has a third position?


----------



## kr0gg

Kingwa amazes me again with his fast response 
   
   
  Quote: 





> Dear Igor,
> The Power switch :
> USB: power supply by USB cable.
> DC IN : power supply by external .
> ...


----------



## LosNir

It's a simple tri-position switch, how you couldn't figure that yourself? 

About the isolator / async discussion.. as I said before I'm using the PoUsbIso Isolator (http://www.poscope.com/pousbiso) with my DI-V2-S and it works fine. I did not uninstall the drivers, however the device is identified as "TE8802 USB Audio Device" and the Audio-GD drivers are greyed out.

How can I know I'm working async or sync?


----------



## Patu

Quote: 





losnir said:


> I'm using foorbar2k WASAPI (it's in my sig), 24 bit, 50ms buffer length.


 
   
  I can't get HD-material to work with other than ASIO output on foobar2000 1.1.13. Regular 16/44,1 stuff plays fine with KS and WASAPI also. With DI v1 I used WASAPI for everything.


----------



## LosNir

I don't have any HD content to test with.. are you using an isolator?


----------



## arnaud

Humm, these PC settings sound awfully complicated. It did not work for me on OS X at first, but it's because it's not completely idiot proof and I managed to forget to install the custom drivers. It's been running smoothly since. Good luck Patu. Oh, I'll consider selling you my MBP, as the new version with retina display has me envious .


----------



## JulioCat2

Arnaud
   
  I see you have a DI V2 in a mac, could you please test it with Audirvana+ new beta version, to see if works in integer mode??


----------



## Patu

LosNir,
   
  I don't use an isolator. I don't even know what it is. 
   
  Quote: 





arnaud said:


> Humm, these PC settings sound awfully complicated. It did not work for me on OS X at first, but it's because it's not completely idiot proof and I managed to forget to install the custom drivers. It's been running smoothly since. Good luck Patu. Oh, I'll consider selling you my MBP, as the new version with retina display has me envious .


 
   
  Oh, I had it running smoothly right from the beginning. I was just wondering why I can't get the HD-material to work with WASAPI and KS. It works perfectly through ASIO output though.
   
  I was also wondering how to get the 64bit ASIO driver to work in foobar2000. Shouldn't it work with 64bit Audio GD drivers? Now I use 32bit driver.


----------



## kr0gg

guys, do you have to manually change bit-depth and frequency in Audio-gd ASIO control panel each time you switch from a 16/44.1 to a 24/96 track?


----------



## LosNir

Where can I get HD material for free? I can check that for you. All of my collections are CD-rips at 16/44.1.


----------



## kr0gg

you can convert any file in foobar with flac-encoding plugins


----------



## Patu

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> guys, do you have to manually change bit-depth and frequency in Audio-gd ASIO control panel each time you switch from a 16/44.1 to a 24/96 track?


 
   
  No, it switches automatically.


----------



## kr0gg

that's strange.
  there is an "auto" option in Windows XP, but it's not there in Win7


----------



## ursdiego

*Got my DI-DSP... 2nd impressions!*
   
  Still stuck to sbt - spdif - DI-DSP - spdif - RE9. But it starts sounding better each day. However, sound got extremely revealing. Some recordings just sound great, others really hurt the ears and I am forced to turn down the volume, the voices or trumpets can get just so sharp. However, with good recordings the sound is just to lay back and enjoy seeing the musicians in the living room.
   
  Probably the chain just got more "revealing". For some tracks however, a setup a bit more forgiving would make music more enjoyable. 
   
  The difference at 16bit/44.1khz - files (upsampled by DI) is still much more obvious than with 24bit/96k - files (not upsampled before they get into the DAC). This does not surprise.
   
  So, I am still looking forward to get to SBT - async USB - DI-DSP - I2S - RE9.  For the I2S, my order is placed and the Kits are on their way...
   
  Just *one issue I encoutered:*
   
  Sometimes, a little crack is audible, or the beginning of a track is muted of for a second, when the frequency changes from 44.1k to 96k or vice versa. This has probably to do with the fact, that DSP 3.1 (inside the DI) does switch the upsampling rate automatically (contrary to the DSP1, as inside my RE9, that remains on an 8x upsampling rate, regardless of the input frequency). However, the step forward in audio quality makes in worth it.
   
  Cheers!


----------



## Patu

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> that's strange.
> there is an "auto" option in Windows XP, but it's not there in Win7


 
   
  I made some more tests and it seems that the device is not working as promised.
   
  I can output 16/44,1 with no problems. I thought earlier that HD material switches the output automatically to HD but it's not so. If I play for example 24/176,4 stuff, the DI-DSP outputs it as 16/44,1 kHz, if I don't manually switch the output audio format. As you said, there's no auto-option in win7. But when I change the audio format to 24 bit, 176400 Hz from the drop down menu, I can't get no audio out from the DI-DSP. With 24/96 I can get audio out but it drops the signal every few seconds and eventually the signal is full of noise and other crap. I have also got many blue screens and automatic restarts when trying to play HD-material. It usually says that the reason is USB driver bug error or something and once it gave me the "IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL". 
   
  In short, I can't play any HD-material through this device! The old DI v1 worked fine with HD-material (96kHz and 192kHz), it just didn't support 88,2 or 176,4 material. 
   
  The driver package seems to be the problem here. We need new drivers quickly!


----------



## tme110

Quote: 





losnir said:


> Where can I get HD material for free? I can check that for you. All of my collections are CD-rips at 16/44.1.


 

 Just goto hdtracks.com   The demo files they have are in the same file format as the files you download from the same page.


----------



## kr0gg

in DPC latency checker on my main PC (win7) i usually get 45-55us latency when working and having around 20 windows opened in Firefox.
  ..what's strange is that playing music using DI-DSP raises latency to a permanent 5000us. Yes. Five thousand.
  That might actually mean some kind of ultra-high priority setting for DI's drivers and that this (5000us) is the latency for any process other then playing music, which would be a good thing.
  but.. i've never seen anything like this yet.
   
   
  on my other PC (which i'm currently building for a CMP music player project on Windows XP SP2)  i get latency of around 200-300 when playing music with DI-DSP.
   
   
  but....i'm enjoying the new DI. a lot.


----------



## Patu

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> but....i'm enjoying the new DI. a lot.


 
   
  I'm not at the moment since it doesn't support HD at all. I hope this gets fixed soon. I already e-mailed Kingwa, let's see what he responds. 
   
  Any other reports from users with 64bit win7 and DI-DSP? Please check if it really outputs the signal in HD-format when you play HD-music. I use Naim DAC and there's a HD indicator on the front panel when it's fed with HD-signal.


----------



## kr0gg

actually i found out that bit-depth and sample rate in Win7(x64) change automatically by themselves.
  i'm currently playing a second 24/96 album and it shows in Audio-gd's panel - Stream Status: 24 bit, 96000 hz


----------



## Patu

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> actually i found out that bit-depth and sample rate in Win7(x64) change automatically by themselves.
> i'm currently playing a second 24/96 album and it shows in Audio-gd's panel - Stream Status: 24 bit, 96000 hz


 
   
  Yes I get the same text in Audio GD control panel in the ASIO CPL page but the output signal is still not HD. Audio CPL page seems to show the true audio output format. Naim DAC would recognize it as HD and the HD indicator LED would be lit. Only when I manually choose the output signal from the drop down menu (for example 24/96) the HD indicator led gets lit when playing HD-material. But that's when the problems start as I described earlier.


----------



## hawkhead

Mine arrived today
   
  It has foam feet!, The BNC/RCA connectors are much better quality and fit
   
  I cannot play anything above 96 (44.1/48/96 all work fine)
   
  DI-DSP win7 64bit Foobar


----------



## LosNir

I can't seem to play 24/96 or 24/192.. foobar plays and all but there is no sound. I don't need if it's my dac (Oritek V4.0) or the DI..


----------



## somestranger26

I never was able to get the isolator working correctly -- still lots of skipping at the start of songs. I did not notice that it made an improvement, however, so I am selling it with my old DI.
  Quote: 





patu said:


> I have also got many blue screens and automatic restarts when trying to play HD-material. It usually says that the reason is USB driver bug error or something and once it gave me the "IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL".
> 
> In short, I can't play any HD-material through this device! The old DI v1 worked fine with HD-material (96kHz and 192kHz), it just didn't support 88,2 or 176,4 material.
> 
> The driver package seems to be the problem here. We need new drivers quickly!


 
   
  Yes, the drivers seem positively horrible right now. I literally just sent Kingwa an email that I have experienced "BUGCODE_USB_DRIVER" (0xFE) blue screen multiple times, and I got "IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL" once. Mainly while trying to get MPC-HC + madVR + ReClock working correctly (48kHz max), but also a few in foobar (44.1kHz max tested)... happens randomly. I even tried both of my DI-V2S to make sure it wasn't a hardware fault.
   
  Quote: 





hawkhead said:


> Mine arrived today
> 
> It has foam feet!, The BNC/RCA connectors are much better quality and fit
> 
> ...


 
  Actually, the BNC and RCA connectors should be the same ones used on the old DI (they are on mine -- although they swapped their positions). I think you mean the USB input is new -- it actually holds the cable and doesn't let it slide in and out easily. Did you install the drivers? It should work fine at 192khz with the drivers installed although I don't have 192khz material to test with.


----------



## LosNir

Well, I checked again and it plays fine 24/96 and 16/44.1 content with my Valab NOS DAC. Unfortunately Oritek DAC doesn't work with 24/96!


----------



## BoyNamedSue

I am also experiencing the highs to be sharper, resulting in fatigue and ears hurting with extended listening. I have the  di-dsp feeding ref7 using PC usb as transport. There is sibilance on some tracks that wasn't there on DIv1. I am hoping the treble energy will smooth out with burn-in.
   
  Quote: 





ursdiego said:


> *Got my DI-DSP... 2nd impressions!*
> 
> Still stuck to sbt - spdif - DI-DSP - spdif - RE9. But it starts sounding better each day. However, sound got extremely revealing. Some recordings just sound great, others really hurt the ears and I am forced to turn down the volume, the voices or trumpets can get just so sharp. However, with good recordings the sound is just to lay back and enjoy seeing the musicians in the living room.


----------



## hawkhead

No
  Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> guys, do you have to manually change bit-depth and frequency in Audio-gd ASIO control panel each time you switch from a 16/44.1 to a 24/96 track?


----------



## hawkhead

No the old DI RCA is a completely different material - more gold colour than brass and matt finish
   
  The DI-DSP is glossy and brass colour with a much better fit
   
  Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Actually, the BNC and RCA connectors should be the same ones used on the old DI (they are on mine -- although they swapped their positions). I think you mean the USB input is new -- it actually holds the cable and doesn't let it slide in and out easily. Did you install the drivers? It should work fine at 192khz with the drivers installed although I don't have 192khz material to test with.


----------



## hawkhead

Anyone done this ? (from Audio-gd website)
   
  "In default the BNC output applied  Current Conveyor Technology ,  the RCA output  applied transmit insulate technology, If user want to applied applied Current Conveyor technology through RCA output , or applied transmit insulate technology through BNC output, just exchange the wires connect in the DI without soldering"


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





hawkhead said:


> No the old DI RCA is a completely different material - more gold colour than brass and matt finish
> 
> The DI-DSP is glossy and brass colour with a much better fit


 
  Hmm... my old DI has the glossy brass color connectors (and snug fit) you're talking about, which look exactly the same as my DI-V2S's. Maybe they already upgraded the connectors at some point during old DI production.


----------



## hawkhead

Also from Audio-gd
   
  "[size=x-small]The Current conveyor output can cooperate with most standard DACs in world but some DACs can't cooperate . The transmit insulate model output can cooperate with any standard design DACs."[/size]


----------



## JulienM

hawkhead said:


> Anyone done this ? (from Audio-gd website)
> 
> "In default the BNC output applied  Current Conveyor Technology ,  the RCA output  applied transmit insulate technology, If user want to applied applied Current Conveyor technology through RCA output , or applied transmit insulate technology through BNC output, just exchange the wires connect in the DI without soldering"




Just got mine yesterday!

I played a bit with both outputs today. I'm favoring the current output. It feels more round, organic, with a bigger midrange.

It doesn't seem to be affected by USB cables that much... I'm using Monoprice now.

A note on the Olimex isolator (and possibly other brand isolators), when I was trying different USB cables, I'd always test them first with a USB 2.0 external hard drive. They all tested equal for file transfer, but with the Olimex in, speeds were so sluggish that I couldn't finish the speed test. That's probably why it is affecting performance. The isolators can't deliver USB 2.0 speeds.

I feel it is a definite upgrade to v1. A veil has been removed. But it did sound fatiguing being powered by my MBP USB port. I did the quick mod on the original PSU. It sounds much better being powered by the Agd PSU.


----------



## LosNir

The isolators only support full-speed usb2 (12Mb/s) instead of the usual hi-speed usb2 (48Mb/s). That's why it might cause a problem, however even with 24/192 content I don't see any:

24 Bits per sample x 192000 Samples per second = 460,800,0 bits per second
460,800,0 * 2 Channels = 9216000 Bits = 1152000 Bytes = 1.152 MB/s

Full-speed usb2 is 12Mb/s which means 1.5MB/s at highest. 



julienm said:


> It doesn't seem to be affected by USB cables that much... I'm using Monoprice now.





So no difference between Monoprice and your DIY'ed Canare L-2T2S? Should I even bother? (I got all the parts!)




julienm said:


> I feel it is a definite upgrade to v1. A veil has been removed. But it did sound fatiguing being powered by my MBP USB port. I did the quick mod on the original PSU. It sounds much better being powered by the Agd PSU.





I can't seem to hear a difference between my computer usb port and an external hi-quality LiPo battery. 
Can you A/B using the switch on the back (just flip it really quick to the far side and the DI won't disconnect) to select usb power source and your AGD PSU and actually hear a difference?


----------



## Currawong

I received my DI-DSP + PSU. First impressions, after leaving it on for a few hours, was that the sound to my Ref 7 is good, but behind my Audiophilleo 1 + Vaunix Lab hub. Still, the difference wasn't so dramatic, but the AP1+hub had more a sense of overall clarity.
   
  I reckon if you are getting harshness in the treble, then something is going wrong in the digital side of things. I've had this problem before and it is likely a software issue.


----------



## steve2151

Quote: 





patu said:


> I made some more tests and it seems that the device is not working as promised.
> 
> I can output 16/44,1 with no problems. I thought earlier that HD material switches the output automatically to HD but it's not so. If I play for example 24/176,4 stuff, the DI-DSP outputs it as 16/44,1 kHz, if I don't manually switch the output audio format. As you said, there's no auto-option in win7. But when I change the audio format to 24 bit, 176400 Hz from the drop down menu, I can't get no audio out from the DI-DSP. With 24/96 I can get audio out but it drops the signal every few seconds and eventually the signal is full of noise and other crap. I have also got many blue screens and automatic restarts when trying to play HD-material. It usually says that the reason is USB driver bug error or something and once it gave me the "IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL".
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm getting the same issue on my side with the upgraded USB chip in my NFB10SE. I can definitely tell that there is no automatic switching as selecting 24/192 disables filters 4-9 (4-6 support up to 96 KHz, 7-9 support up to 44 KHz) even when playing back standard CD rips.  In addition, the enable exclusive mode option in Media Monkey's WASAPI output driver causes the application to hang after selecting 24/192 from the Audio GD control panel. Worked fine in 24/96 with the old TE7022 chip.


----------



## Patu

Quote: 





hawkhead said:


> Anyone done this ? (from Audio-gd website)
> 
> "In default the BNC output applied  Current Conveyor Technology ,  the RCA output  applied transmit insulate technology, If user want to applied applied Current Conveyor technology through RCA output , or applied transmit insulate technology through BNC output, just exchange the wires connect in the DI without soldering"


 
   
  I quickly tested this one and it might have helped. I have to do more tests when I get back home though.
   
  I switched to the RCA output and disconnected my BNC cable. Now the HD-material plays without errors and my computer didn't crash.
   
  What bothers me still is that I have to switch the output from the Audio GD control panel (Audio CPL page) manually every time if I want to output HD-signal. Even though the ASIO CPL page says that the signal is 24/96 or 24/176,4 it actually outputs it as 16/44,1 if you haven't switched to the matching audio format on the Audio CPL page. If you forget to change it back to 16/44,1 after playing HD-material, the DI-DSP outputs SD material as HD.


----------



## Patu

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> I never was able to get the isolator working correctly -- still lots of skipping at the start of songs. I did not notice that it made an improvement, however, so I am selling it with my old DI.
> 
> Yes, the drivers seem positively horrible right now. I literally just sent Kingwa an email that I have experienced "BUGCODE_USB_DRIVER" (0xFE) blue screen multiple times, and I got "IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL" once. Mainly while trying to get MPC-HC + madVR + ReClock working correctly (48kHz max), but also a few in foobar (44.1kHz max tested)... happens randomly. I even tried both of my DI-V2S to make sure it wasn't a hardware fault.


 
   
  Those are the two error messages I have got also. There must be something wrong with the drivers.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





patu said:


> Those are the two error messages I have got also. There must be something wrong with the drivers.


 
  Even without using ReClock as the audio renderer in MPC-HC (tried both DirectSound and WASAPI), I am getting buggy behavior or blue screens. One time my computer hardlocked but did not blue screen about 10 seconds after beginning playback. Several other times I got the 0xFE blue screen, and then one time immediately at the beginning of playback before any audio played I got "MULTIPLE_IRP_COMPLETE_REQUESTS" (0x44) blue screen that I have never seen before. 
   
  Foobar seems to work alright for hours rather than seconds, but it still ends in random 0xFE blue screens.
   
  Sigh... I hope this is fixed soon, as I have pretty much narrowed it down to an issue with the drivers and not with my computer, the connection, or the power provided to the DI.


----------



## ursdiego

Quote: 





boynamedsue said:


> I am also experiencing the highs to be sharper, resulting in fatigue and ears hurting with extended listening. I have the  di-dsp feeding ref7 using PC usb as transport. There is sibilance on some tracks that wasn't there on DIv1. I am hoping the treble energy will smooth out with burn-in.


 
  Hi there! OK. I suspected it was my SB Touch, that has a well discussed flaw with "digital trebles" on its spdif output. This can be remedied by 3rd party hardware upgrades and software tuning, that costs twice as much as the original SBT. So I was hoping to get that away bypassing the internal sound card and using the async USB of the SBT with the new EDO app. However, the problem for now is, that the TE8802L-module inside the DI-DSP is not Linux compatible. I hope this gets fixed some time soon.

 Now, it surprises me that you have the same impression with sharp highs. I really hope that the portion that DI contributes to it, will get away after breaking in. Apparently, the quartz oscillators benefit from breaking in, no woodoo. This would mean, that they are still not as accurate as they can get, and yet produce audible jitter for now, that will be less after a while. Lets hope.
   
  What I noticed however, is, that setting the DSP to upsampling makes a huge difference. For now, my DI-DSP upsamples to 96khz, and it goes to the spdif output after that. When I get my I2S upgrades (and the time to install them...) I hope that I can use 192khz upsampling inside the DI and get the naitive signal directly into RE9, without passing over any spdif bridge. This might help, too, I hope.
   
  Your RE 7 shoud be able to accept I2S, too. You need two kits: One for the output on the DI, and one for the input on the Re7. And a good cable in between. The kits are cheap, shipping costs more than the hardware. You will however have to cut one of the inputs on your Re7, like the USB input or the spdif input.


----------



## kr0gg

Guys, did you order an upgrade 12mhz clock for TE8802 ?
  I should say that i haven't tried my DI without upsampling.
  I had a Tentlabs XO clock which i used with my old DI, and i used my DI-DSP only with it, upsampled to 96khz. I didn't hear any sibilance. In fact it might sound even a little darker that the old DI.
  But i'm not sure yet because my BNC- cable for some reason doesn't fit the new DI and i was forced to use an analog interconnect cable instead.
   
  Also - can anyone provide pictures of the modified PSU? I've received the resistors, so i'd like to tweak the old PSU.


----------



## hawkhead

Could you tell me exactly what you did ?
   
  Did you replace a 3 Ohm resistor with a 5 Ohm?
    
  Quote:


julienm said:


> I did the quick mod on the original PSU. It sounds much better being powered by the Agd PSU.


----------



## veritas aurum

Anyone else using the DI between a cd transport and an Anedio D2? If so, what are your results? Thanks


----------



## JulienM

losnir said:


> The isolators only support full-speed usb2 (12Mb/s) instead of the usual hi-speed usb2 (48Mb/s). That's why it might cause a problem, however even with 24/192 content I don't see any:
> 24 Bits per sample x 192000 Samples per second = 460,800,0 bits per second
> 460,800,0 * 2 Channels = 9216000 Bits = 1152000 Bytes = 1.152 MB/s
> Full-speed usb2 is 12Mb/s which means 1.5MB/s at highest.
> ...




I have to conduct more critical listening to be more conclusive. These are only initial impressions... And I'm letting the device burn in a bit.

But my feeling is that the USB cable appears invisible, without any signature. Not like the original DI.

Regarding the harshness, I only noticed this difference with my laptop. Maybe the current demands are too high... But I haven't investigated in depth since I'll use the new DI with its own PSU.


----------



## JulienM

Quote: 





hawkhead said:


> Could you tell me exactly what you did ?
> 
> Did you replace a 3 Ohm resistor with a 5 Ohm?


 
  No replacement is needed. You have to solder the 2 resistors (3 ohms and 5.1 ohms) in parallel with that 3 ohm resistors shown in the Agd diagram.
   
  I got a 3.32 ohms resistor instead of 3 ohms, but it works.The 5.1 ohms resistor is grey, mostly hidden by the 3.32 ohms blue resistor. I've shown this picture to Kingwa and he approved.
   
  Here's my mod:

   
   
   
  Here's the Audio-gd link:
http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/DIv2/DIv2EN_Use.htm


----------



## Patu

Quote: 





patu said:


> I quickly tested this one and it might have helped. I have to do more tests when I get back home though.
> 
> I switched to the RCA output and disconnected my BNC cable. Now the HD-material plays without errors and my computer didn't crash.
> 
> What bothers me still is that I have to switch the output from the Audio GD control panel (Audio CPL page) manually every time if I want to output HD-signal. Even though the ASIO CPL page says that the signal is 24/96 or 24/176,4 it actually outputs it as 16/44,1 if you haven't switched to the matching audio format on the Audio CPL page. If you forget to change it back to 16/44,1 after playing HD-material, the DI-DSP outputs SD material as HD.


 
   
  I did some more testing. 
   
  It seems that there really is something wrong with the BNC output or then it's just my Naim DAC which can't co-operate with current conveyor technology. Anyway, with RCA output I can play HD material with WASAPI and Kernel Streaming outputs. The output switches automatically to 24/96, 24/176,4 or any other HD resolution. With ASIO output this isn't the case though. I have to switch manually if I want to use ASIO and play HD material.  Kernel Streaming seems to be working best out of these three. No glitches or dropouts in sound this way and HD material works fine. 
   
  Kingwa describes on the Audio GD website that I can change the BNC output to use transmit insulate. When I opened my unit, I quickly noticed that everything I can plug or unplug inside the unit is glued to their sockets. Even the connectors to switch between the current conveyor and transmit insulate. Check out the picture:
   
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/32035299/DI-DSP.jpg
   
  I don't know why they've glued everything. Do you have any ideas how to unplug the connectors so I could make the switch?


----------



## LosNir

I switched the sockets only with my hands, it requires a little force but it works. You can use a small nose pliers.


----------



## Patu

Quote: 





losnir said:


> I switched the sockets only with my hands, it requires a little force but it works. You can use a small nose pliers.


 
   
  I tried to use little force but I'm afraid that I rip off the whole socket if I pull too much. Your connectors were also glued?
   
  EDIT:
   
  I used some more force and Leatherman. Now I managed to switch the connectors and now BNC output works with HD material as described earlier with RCA output. Kernel Streaming seems to be the best output when using foobar and win7 64bit. WASAPI also works flawlessly with 16/44,1 but doesn't play the tracks every now and then with HD tracks. ASIO is out of question since I'd have to switch manually every time I want to listen to HD tracks.


----------



## LosNir

Yup.



Try to wiggle it side to side, it will help loosen it up a bit.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Patu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Kernel Streaming seems to be the best output when using foobar and win7 64bit. WASAPI also works flawlessly with 16/44,1 but doesn't play the tracks every now and then with HD tracks. ASIO is out of question since I'd have to switch manually every time I want to listen to HD tracks.


 
  I agree Foobar with KS seems the way to go. With the old DI it sounded the same as WASAPI to me, and I had some issues using it. With the DI-V2, playback seems flawless (edit: noticed some 'crackling' happening occasionally) and the sound quality seems a tiny bit better.
   
  My DI had glue on the plugs too, probably to prevent them from coming loose during shipment.


----------



## tim3320070

Got it today (DSP) and there is a small but noticeable improvement over my optical out (to Ref-8, Master-5). Voices and instruments are subtly more defined, more 3D. This is the primary benefit I hear and is enough of an improvement for this to be a keeper. I had no issues installing everything on my Win7 machine with upsampling to 24/96 (the Ref-8 maxes out at 24/96). I had come from a AP2 which provided similar benefits but I could not justify $600 for it.
  I would guess that if this improves the Ref series DAC's with the DSP-1 chips, it might be a more than decent improvement to lesser DAC's.


----------



## kr0gg

I've managed to connect it to my DAC via i2s, haven't tried coaxial yet
  So far DI-DSP has been a VERY enjoyable upgrade.
  Clarity - that's the word to describe it.
  There's much more magic in my music now, a definite improvement in soundstage.
  It seems that bass got more defined and has better punch.
  Didn't have time to play with my Olimex isolator yet.
   
  Didn't notice any difference between KS, WASAPI and ASIO yet.
  But i should say that playing anything higher from 44/16 requires a much higher buffer, otherwise there's a lot of noise in sound. So, i've set the buffer to always stay high.


----------



## arnaud

Quote: 





juliocat2 said:


> Arnaud
> 
> I see you have a DI V2 in a mac, could you please test it with Audirvana+ new beta version, to see if works in integer mode??


 
   
  That's a DI-DSP actually. I just tried the beta of Audirvana+ (thanks for letting me know about this, I used Audirvana before purchasing Pure Music and wasn't aware the programmer had found a way to circumvent the drop of integer mode in OSX Lion). Anyhow, seems to be working just fine (actually, it seems like a nice alternative to Pure Music!), tried 88.2 / 96 / 174.4 as well as DSD (converted on the fly to 24/174.4). I have no way to check if it's really in integer mode I guess but at least I could set it up that in the preferences.
   
  Haven't had a chance to compare Audirvana + and Pure Music in detail so this is very very preliminary, but it would seem the DSD or other High Res. files have a more natural mid-highs / treble through Audirvana + and maybe more low level detail retrieval. It seems more subtle than the move from old DI+PSU to DI-DSP though. BTW, playing at native rate (except DSD which has to be converted to PCM).
   
  I forgot the pain windows can be at times, wishing you guys luck to sort it out.


----------



## darren700

Just received my DI-DSP (both clocks upgraded) and PSU. works perfect.
   
  Connected up to my server with the Wyred 4 Sound DAC1 (DAC2 Caps) for burn in.
   
  The BNC output (Applied Current Conveyor) did not work with my DAC. however the COAX output worked right away.
   
  Automatic switching between SD and HD Material works in foobar in Wasapi (Didnt work in ASIO). And Kernal Streaming in Jriver (didnt try anything else)
  The only thing is the drivers take a second to switch from SD to HD which causes my DAC to flip through the inputs, but when it comes back around to COAX1 it starts playing. not a big deal but a bit annoying to me.
  edit: just figured out how to turn of input scrolling on my DAC so problem solved
   
  so far im very happy with this unit. Listening to Pink Floyd DSOTM Immersion right now and it sounds damn good for both the DAC and DI-DSP not being fully burned in.
   
  The stack looks awesome ontop of the W4S DAC1 As well.


----------



## JulioCat2

Quote: 





arnaud said:


> That's a DI-DSP actually. I just tried the beta of Audirvana+ (thanks for letting me know about this, I used Audirvana before purchasing Pure Music and wasn't aware the programmer had found a way to circumvent the drop of integer mode in OSX Lion). Anyhow, seems to be working just fine (actually, it seems like a nice alternative to Pure Music!), tried 88.2 / 96 / 174.4 as well as DSD (converted on the fly to 24/174.4). I have no way to check if it's really in integer mode I guess but at least I could set it up that in the preferences.
> 
> Haven't had a chance to compare Audirvana + and Pure Music in detail so this is very very preliminary, but it would seem the DSD or other High Res. files have a more natural mid-highs / treble through Audirvana + and maybe more low level detail retrieval. It seems more subtle than the move from old DI+PSU to DI-DSP though. BTW, playing at native rate (except DSD which has to be converted to PCM).
> 
> I forgot the pain windows can be at times, wishing you guys luck to sort it out.


 
  Thanks Arnaud.
   
  There is an indicator of Integer Mode on the Audirvana screen, is an INT green indicator, and you can check the debug info in the Audirvana Menu.
  If you have set Direct and Integer mode options and you are hearing sound then it should be working in integer mode.


----------



## darren700

24-192 does not seem to be working for me. The Audio-GD Drivers detect the change and it seems like its working but my DAC doesnt pick up the signal. The W4S DAC1 does AFAIK support 192 over Coax so im not sure whats going on here. All other sample rates work perfectly. Can anyone else confirm 24-192 working with their DAC?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## LosNir

I can't play 24/96 with my Oritek which is a kind of absurd. It should support up to 24/192 playback.. I don't know what's going on.


----------



## JulienM

Quote: 





darren700 said:


> 24-192 does not seem to be working for me. The Audio-GD Drivers detect the change and it seems like its working but my DAC doesnt pick up the signal. The W4S DAC1 does AFAIK support 192 over Coax so im not sure whats going on here. All other sample rates work perfectly. Can anyone else confirm 24-192 working with their DAC?
> 
> Thanks.


 
   
  No problems here. I can output 24/192 to an Audio-gd NFB-8 DAC, and a NFB-12.1 Headphone amp/DAC.


----------



## Patu

So it seems that there are many others with problems with HD material. I really hope that they fix the drivers soon. 
   
  As I said earlier, with transmit insulate output, HD material works fine. I'm not sure if it affects the sound quality though.
   
  EDIT:
   
  Just when I hoped it worked, it didn't. Now it crashed even with 16/44,1 kHz material. Just a minute ago I got blue screen with "IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL" error message. I played ordinary 16/44,1 material with KS output on foobar2000. I'm starting to get frustrated... I guess that only way is to play 16/44,1 material with the original configuration (current conveyor on). That way my computer didn't crash once. I just can't play HD material that way.


----------



## kr0gg

guys, i strongly advice you to manually set the asio buffer to maximum in Audio-gd panel and to play through ASIO


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





patu said:


> So it seems that there are many others with problems with HD material. I really hope that they fix the drivers soon.
> 
> As I said earlier, with transmit insulate output, HD material works fine. I'm not sure if it affects the sound quality though.
> 
> ...


 
  Yeah, I am not sure how you and I are the only ones reporting blue screen issues. I get that bsod every 4 hours or so on average even at 16/44.1... I got it while trying to watch the Daily Show last night online (using the flash player). It isn't like it's just one piece of software causing problems. I am using current conveyor over BNC, by the way, so I think it's just a happy coincidence that it hasn't crashed on you yet.
  Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> guys, i strongly advice you to manually set the asio buffer to maximum in Audio-gd panel and to play through ASIO


 
   
  The download link is broken... http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_out_asio (edit: guess they were replacing the .zip with a .fb2k-component file exactly when I was trying to download)
  edit2: Ha, 20 minutes later and I got BUGCODE_USB_DRIVER bluescreen again. Is there really nobody else with these issues besides Patu and I ?


----------



## LosNir

It works fine.. extract it using 7zip.


Guys, I still can't play 24/96 or 24/192 using my DAC, and I'm starting to think my DAC is absolutely fine and the problem is the DI. I get all sorts of weird crackling noises, and on current conveyer the signal actually locks (but with noises that subtly sounds like the song, so something is wrong digitally), with transmit insulate it's silent and the signal doesn't lock (led is off).
ASIO doesn't work either. I'm trying KS now. I think there's a severe incompatibility with some dac's and driver issue that needs to be fixed.

EDIT:

Hallelujah!!!! I just switched to ASIO, but now this 2nd time I set the "Default Format" in the "Advanced" tab of the device to "2 channel, 24 bit, 48000 Hz (Studio Quality)". Playback works fine, no weird noise. AudioGD CPL shows the following on the asio tab:
"2 ch. output, 0 ch. input, 96000 Hz 24 bits, 4800 BYTE Buffer".

Looks like output is 24/96 

WASAPI doesn't work that way. I'm trying KS now.

EDIT2:

Something is just terribly wrong with the DI. It just stopped working and back to noise/silent again. MAJOR DRIVER ISSUE

EDIT3:

Restart fixed it. Let's see how well he behaves..


----------



## hawkhead

So I have tried ASIO (you do not have ton install ASIO4ALL) just the Foobar driver
   
  I can now play all Hi res material (WASAPI was limited to 96)


----------



## LosNir

Since I switched to ASIO a few hours ago, I had about 12 blue screens on normal listening, also track loading and seeking is very slow. This method is unbearable.
I had to switch back to WASAPI and listen to standard definition content.. there is no other option for me. When playing high resolution (24/96) content on WASAPI, I can now hear the song, but it is VERY VERY distorted, just impossible to listen to. There is obliviously something wrong with the DI, and my dac is not the problem, as I suspected earlier.

In the meantime, it is WASAPI and no high-resolution for me, until these drivers are fixed. This is just unbearable..

Edit: I sent an email to Kingwa.


----------



## Patu

LosNir and somestranger26,
   
  It seems that we have very similar problems here. It's good to know that I'm not the only one. When there are many with the problem, there's actually some hope for getting the drivers fixed.


----------



## tim3320070

Win7 64 bit with Media Center (WASAPI Event) and DI set to 24/96-- zero issues with the drivers or sound.


----------



## Patu

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> Win7 64 bit with Media Center (WASAPI Event) and DI set to 24/96-- zero issues with the drivers or sound.


 
   
  Could you please describe your whole setup. Also are you absolutely positive that the device outputs HD signal?


----------



## LosNir

I think the problem arises with certain spdi/f receivers inside the dacs. With my Valab NOS DAC I recall playing 24/96 with WASAPI fine. It has a DIR9001 receiver. My Oritek which doesn't work with the DI has a CS8416 receiver.

Which dac's / receiver's do you have?


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





patu said:


> Could you please describe your whole setup. Also are you absolutely positive that the device outputs HD signal?


 
  DI-DSP set to upsample to 24/96 (jumpers inside)--> Win7 set to output 24/96 with all boxes checked that apply (44.1, 48, 88.2, 96) --> Media Center (w/o upsampling) --> Ref-8 DAC. The AGD is set to 24/96 in "Audio Format" and streaming shows 24/96 on a 24/96 recording I have. Sounds very good.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





losnir said:


> I think the problem arises with certain spdi/f receivers inside the dacs. With my Valab NOS DAC I recall playing 24/96 with WASAPI fine. It has a DIR9001 receiver. My Oritek which doesn't work with the DI has a CS8416 receiver.
> Which dac's / receiver's do you have?


 
  Computer -> DI -> NFB10-ES (ES9018). For some reason, my laptop does not have the same blue screen issues, or I did not test long enough to see one (a couple hours). I wonder if it has to do with motherboard, etc. since the Hiface had an issue running on AMD chipsets for a while after release. My laptop is using an Intel QM57 chipset , and my desktop is using the AMD 890GX chipset.


----------



## kr0gg

my dac has cs8416 receiver and plays 24/96 signal nicely (it also indicates that it's a 24/96 signal)


----------



## Patu

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Computer -> DI -> NFB10-ES (ES9018). For some reason, my laptop does not have the same blue screen issues, or I did not test long enough to see one (a couple hours). I wonder if it has to do with motherboard, etc. since the Hiface had an issue running on AMD chipsets for a while after release. My laptop is using an Intel QM57 chipset , and my desktop is using the AMD 890GX chipset.


 
  My motherboard is Asus M5A78L LE which uses AMD 780G chipset. I didn't have any problems with the previous version of Digital Interface or HiFace Two.
   
  I also got Stello U3 for testing purposes today, it runs smooth and fine with all material and outputs. I installed Thesycon drivers for U3 and they're somewhat similar setup than Tenor drivers but the control panel is more sophisticated. ASIO output changes to correct output depending on what you play from foobar. Thesycon driver package is much more polished and finished than Tenor.


----------



## LosNir

kr0gg said:


> my dac has cs8416 receiver and plays 24/96 signal nicely (it also indicates that it's a 24/96 signal)




I don't think it matters because you are using I2S so you're bypassing the receiver. 
Did you try Coax?



tim3320070 said:


> DI-DSP set to upsample to 24/96 (jumpers inside)--> Win7 set to output 24/96 with all boxes checked that apply (44.1, 48, 88.2, 96) --> Media Center (w/o upsampling) --> Ref-8 DAC. The AGD is set to 24/96 in "Audio Format" and streaming shows 24/96 on a 24/96 recording I have. Sounds very good.




I understand your DAC has the DSP-1 which uses the DIR9001 spdif receiver, the same as my Valab that works.

So far (to my understanding):

DIR9001 - OK
ES9018 - OK

CS8416 - BAD

I don't know what spdif receiver the Naim DAC uses.


----------



## hawkhead

Now getting device not recognised suddenly
   
  Have tried: reboot, install drivers again, usb and external power, deleted devices in device mangler
   
  W7 64bit, DI DSP
   
  any suggestions ?


----------



## LosNir

1. Different computer?
2. Leave USB unconnected and check if coax input works.


----------



## veritas aurum

For those still using a cd transport, you will find that the DI-DSP improves even low-jitter DACS. I do caution that the improvement will heard only on high end phones or amps and speakers. It is mainly in the imaging area. Increased air, instrumental separation, and overtone reproduction. You should hear what it does to massed brass. Regards


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





losnir said:


> I don't think it matters because you are using I2S so you're bypassing the receiver.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  yep. i've tried coax already. sound a little worse then i2s, but it works up to 24/96


----------



## LosNir

I understand. What settings are you using? WASPI / KS / ASIO, and what are your selection for the output audio format?

Kingwa says that the CS8416 is "hard to design" and different designs might actually not work. I hope this can be fixed through the drivers.


----------



## Patu

I don't know what S/PDIF receiver Naim DAC uses. Can you find anything in the white paper?
   
http://www.naimaudio.com/sites/default/files/products/downloads/files/naim_dac_august_2009.pdf
   
  This is the biggest picture I could find of the Naim DAC insides:
   
  http://www.audioplus.org.uk/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/naim-dac/Interior_DAC_Med.jpg
   
  6moons review also has some pictures on the second page:
   
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/naim4/dac.html
   
  I do know that it uses SHARC DSP by Analog Devices and PCM 1704K DAC chips.


----------



## LosNir

I think the sharc has the spdif receiver integrated.
Anyhow, I am now convinced the problem is not the spdif receiver.

You see, when Ori from Oritek Audio upgraded the dac (from Zhaolu into Oritek) he put a transformer on the coax input as one of the upgrades, it should reduce jitter / upgrade the sound, but actually makes an incompatibility with some audio format's / transporters.

With the confirmed advice of Kingwa, I bypassed that transformer and everything works quite well now 



Now I need to figure out a replacement transformer that works.. argh. I think it is the added resistence that screws up the AES signal - there is a small resistor under the socket, I'll try to bypass it.

However, there is still the BSOD problems that needs to be addressed. It would be nice if you could send and email to Kingwa so he would be more aware of the situation.


----------



## Patu

Quote: 





> However, there is still the BSOD problems that needs to be addressed. It would be nice if you could send and email to Kingwa so he would be more aware of the situation.


 
   
  I've sent many e-mails to him already. Kingwa told me that he contacted Tenor to see if they can do something to the drivers. I guess we can only wait now.


----------



## LosNir

Well, as far as I can tell it only affects ASIO, so you might just use ASIO4ALL for a while.




losnir said:


> Now I need to figure out a replacement transformer that works.. argh. I think it is the added resistence that screws up the AES signal - there is a small resistor under the socket, I'll try to bypass it.




I was quite right actually - I put back the transformer and then removed the 75R resistor. 96Khz still plays beautifully and the transformer (upgrade) is back.
I think there a slight impedance mismatch with certain dac's so this might be good info if someone else have this kind of problem.


(enlarge to see circled resistor)


----------



## hawkhead

Still having issues with the DI-=DSP not working intermittently
   
  This is the error message in Foobar:
   
  Unrecoverable playback error: Starting ASIO failed : Hardware not present
   
  In the Foobar configuration and Windows device manager everything is present and looks correct


----------



## Baird GoW

I have a DI-V2-S and I am getting Blue Screens. I am using a AMD 890gx chipset


----------



## Currawong

Shame, because the Mac drivers work well.


----------



## tim3320070

My Win7 works fine- I wonder if Foobar is part of the issue (I am using Media Center). I am fairly impressed with the DI so far, I was expecting anything from no improvement to almost none and am pleasantly surprised (over optical out from my sound card). I would suggest that Foobar users try the free Media Center version via direct sound or wave out as a test (I use it on my laptop with my NFB-16 and the 8022 driver).


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> My Win7 works fine- I wonder if Foobar is part of the issue (I am using Media Center). I am fairly impressed with the DI so far, I was expecting anything from no improvement to almost none and am pleasantly surprised (over optical out from my sound card). I would suggest that Foobar users try the free Media Center version via direct sound or wave out as a test (I use it on my laptop with my NFB-16 and the 8022 driver).


 
  Nope. I've gotten blue screens gaming, while using flash player, using MPC-HC with or without the ReClock plugin, and foobar. I guarantee if I tried media center I would get the same blue screens.


----------



## i019791

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Nope. I've gotten blue screens gaming, while using flash player, using MPC-HC with or without the ReClock plugin, and foobar. I guarantee if I tried media center I would get the same blue screens.


 
  DI-DSP-S works fine for me with WIN7 64 and Foobar v1.1.11, either with WASAPI or KS. Improves a little comparing to the TE7022 USB of Audio GD NFB-10SE. Improves a lot relative to Musical Fidelity V Link 96 when connected to the AD1955 dac of my integrated amplifier. I have not yet tried upsampling.


----------



## Kingwa

Some cases we test and ever have the blue screen, if you have blue screen, maybe can help.
  If the device have working, but lost the power supply will cause the blue screen.
  So these state maybe cause blue screen :
  1, The external power supply have bad connect , please check the AC power cable, or the DC power cable, we have send two DC power cable for who bought external PSU, exchange another DC power cable for connect.
  2, The DI both version have around 500MA power supply, this is near the USB limit, if the computer active protect maybe cut the power output long or short moment. In this case, try to power supply by a proper universal DC power supply , and don't forget turn the power selector to "DC in" , and if from USB power turn to "DC IN", must stay at OFF state least 10 seconds.


----------



## LosNir

My input:

1. Either with external power supply (battery) or usb power supply, I get blue screen. Cable contacts are perfect.

2. My computer power supply is Enermex Pro 82+ II 620W, which has lots of clean power and headroom. I'm directly connecting to back usb ports that can 100% deliver 500ma.


----------



## Kingwa

The USB output current have not contact to the power supply of the computer.
  The USB have current limit, I remember there are some software can check the USB output current limit parameter , perhase can try.


----------



## kr0gg

I've modded the PSU with supplied resistors to power my DI-DSP
  the PSU now gets MUCH hotter. is it normal?


----------



## darren700

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> I've modded the PSU with supplied resistors to power my DI-DSP
> the PSU now gets MUCH hotter. is it normal?


 
   
  My new version of the PSU gets alot hotter than the old version i had before. It is burning in with my DAC and it was getting very hot to the touch so i just threw a cpu heatsink on the top temporarily


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





darren700 said:


> My new version of the PSU gets alot hotter than the old version i had before. It is burning in with my DAC and it was getting very hot to the touch so i just threw a cpu heatsink on the top temporarily


 
   

 i thought that doubling it's power output should lead to this.
  it's ok then. good.


----------



## Kingwa

We have do long time test.
  I think don't need fan to help the heat follow.
  Just leave it on top or without anythings cover on it is ok.
  In fact we test at 30C room, it's temperature is not high if test by thermometer .
   
  It is a class A PSU, so if the DI power off, it will get hotter. There is better turn the DI power selector always on "DC IN", let the PSU contol power ON or OFF.
   
  We order 1360 pcs TE8802 from Tenor, had shiped around 600 pcs (built in gear or kit)  , we only get around 5 users feedback got blue screen.
   
  We have send all case to Tenor wish they can find the issue.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





i019791 said:


> DI-DSP-S works fine for me with WIN7 64 and Foobar v1.1.11, either with WASAPI or KS. Improves a little comparing to the TE7022 USB of Audio GD NFB-10SE. Improves a lot relative to Musical Fidelity V Link 96 when connected to the AD1955 dac of my integrated amplifier. I have not yet tried upsampling.


 
  And what chipset does your computer have? So far everyone that has the issue has AMD. I don't believe LosNir has stated what he's running though.
    
  Quote:


kingwa said:


> Some cases we test and ever have the blue screen, if you have blue screen, maybe can help.
> If the device have working, but lost the power supply will cause the blue screen.
> So these state maybe cause blue screen :
> 1, The external power supply have bad connect , please check the AC power cable, or the DC power cable, we have send two DC power cable for who bought external PSU, exchange another DC power cable for connect.
> 2, The DI both version have around 500MA power supply, this is near the USB limit, if the computer active protect maybe cut the power output long or short moment. In this case, try to power supply by a proper universal DC power supply , and don't forget turn the power selector to "DC in" , and if from USB power turn to "DC IN", must stay at OFF state least 10 seconds.


 
  1. All cables are solid.
  2. I'm using a 7.4V 5200mAh Li-ion battery with plenty of current output.
   
  I have gotten this issue on my desktop, but it does not occur on my laptop. So, these obviously couldn't be the reasons why it's happening. I suggest you try MPC-HC x86 + ReClock (configured for bit perfect WASAPI output) on W7 x64 with an *AMD chipset* and see if it happens. My friend Baird-Gow has the same 890GX chipset that I do, and I was able to cause his computer to blue screen before the DI output any sound by trying to play a video in that configuration. Should we submit something like a dxdiag that you can forward to tenor for troubleshooting?


----------



## LosNir

I have the Intel Z68 - top of the line high end chipset for the LGA1155.


----------



## i019791

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> And what chipset does your computer have? So far everyone that has the issue has AMD. I don't believe LosNir has stated what he's running though.


 
  No AMD here  - it shows as Intel(R)Core(TM)2 Duo CPU P9500


----------



## hawkhead

An update
   
[size=11.0pt]Playing music normally through DI-DSP with PSU[/size]
   
[size=11.0pt]I plug another device (a phone) into a separate USB hub on my computer[/size]
   
[size=11.0pt]Music stops[/size]
   
[size=11.0pt]Foobar gives error message “Unrecoverable playback error: Endpoint creation failed (0x8889000F)”[/size]
   
[size=11.0pt]I test this with DI V1 and it works 100% OK[/size]


----------



## Kingwa

The DI-V1 applied the TE7022 , which is running by Microsoft driver.
  The V2 is running with the Tenor driver, this is different.
  I have test another well know asynchronous device if pull off the device suddenly cause the computer hang.
   
  A customer send me a copy picture , he was said the blue creen.
  But I find the picture have not show proper device, maybe install the driver had wrong, or miss some step during install.
  During install will have a window spring out and want to confirm. Must click " Yes" or " Install" .

   
  Below picture show the proper install driver ( left) and the wrong install driver (right).
 The wrong install have miss the 88.2K and 176.4K option in the device attribute .


----------



## Patu

I've re-installed the drivers many times and always just like you instructed. I can see all the frequencies (88,2 and 176,4 also) on the settings page. This is not the problem here.


----------



## darren700

Ok, so i've had my DI-DSP for about a week now. I burned it in on my server and have just moved it to my main rig along with my W4S DAC1.
  I cannot get 192k to work for the life of me. everything else works, even 172. I have tried multiple software (Foobar2000 and Jriver) and every possible output settings (ASIO, WASAPI, Kernal Streaming) and still no luck. Even from the windows sound setting 192 does not work, the DAC just does not detect it. I have confirmed from W4S that the DAC1 does support 192 over COAX. so i still have no clue what is causing this problem. its not a deal breaker for me, and i am completly happy with the DI otherwise, but one of the reasons i bought it was for the 192 capability! argh... hopefully updated drivers fix this.


----------



## LosNir

Does it make any sound? Does it play?


----------



## darren700

It plays, but no sound at all and the DAC display does not detect any sample rate


----------



## LosNir

I see. Can you check your dac coaxial input impedance? If you have a multimeter, check the outer ring and the inner hole for resistance.


----------



## kr0gg

by the way. i have recently received a separate PCI  USB controller (http://www.amazon.com/Adaptec-AUA-3100LP-USB-Port-Card/dp/B00005T37X)
  after plugging the DI-DSP in it, DPC latency checker reports 25us in idle and 100us when playing music.
  ( without the DI it reports 3-6us)
   
  when the DI was plugged into the motherboard's USB, it reported a permanent 200us in WinXP and 5000us in Win7
   
  i've also received a 7.4v 5200mAh Sanyo Li-ion rechargeable battery. alas, i can't say i've heard any difference with the DI PSU at all 
   
  talking about BSODs, when i tested the DI-DSP on my Win7 x64 pc, i had one BSOD when experimenting with the DI settings in its drivers and Jriver. after i've found the ones that suited me best, everything was OK. Unfortunately i don't remember them, because i was mainly interested in using it with my other PC.
  Have any of you, having BSOD problems, tried using it on WinXP?


----------



## drez

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> by the way. i have recently received a separate PCI  USB controller (http://www.amazon.com/Adaptec-AUA-3100LP-USB-Port-Card/dp/B00005T37X)
> after plugging the DI-DSP in it, DPC latency checker reports 25us in idle and 100us when playing music.
> ( without the DI it reports 3-6us)
> 
> ...


 
   
  what computer hardware/software are you using - that latency sounds pretty good.


----------



## leeperry

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> i have recently received a separate PCI  USB controller (http://www.amazon.com/Adaptec-AUA-3100LP-USB-Port-Card/dp/B00005T37X)
> after plugging the DI-DSP in it, DPC latency checker reports 25us in idle and 100us when playing music.
> ( without the DI it reports 3-6us)


 
   
  what chipset? NEC?


----------



## kr0gg

WinXP PC = Biostar tp43d2-a7 mobo + an old intel e5200 cpu (2.5ghz, 2mb cash) + 2gb ddr2 + Intel pro/1000gt PCI network card + ati hd5450 video + a single SSD drive for OS (i play all my music by network from my Win7 PC). This PC is somewhat optimised in BIOS, services, etc. following CMPlay recommendations, i'm controlling it remotely via U-VNC
   
  Win7 PC = ECS H67H2 m3 mobo + i3-2100 + 8gb ddr3 + ati hd6950 video + a usual 1 tb HDD
   
  considering that my second PC works twice faster in everything, i guess that such high latency is because of OS or bad integrated usb controller implementation on this mobo.
  with the old DI i had around 50-70us latency in Win7 when playing music


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> what chipset? NEC?


 
   
   
  yes, sir!
  just like you recommended.
  i've been following your experiments for quite a long time


----------



## leeperry

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> yes, sir!
> just like you recommended.
> i've been following your experiments for quite a long time


 
   
  lol ok, well it's Marco from m2tech who always advises to go NEC whenever possible


----------



## drez

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> WinXP PC = Biostar tp43d2-a7 mobo + an old intel e5200 cpu (2.5ghz, 2mb cash) + 2gb ddr2 + Intel pro/1000gt PCI network card + ati hd5450 video + a single SSD drive for OS (i play all my music by network from my Win7 PC). This PC is somewhat optimised in BIOS, services, etc. following CMPlay recommendations, i'm controlling it remotely via U-VNC
> 
> Win7 PC = ECS H67H2 m3 mobo + i3-2100 + 8gb ddr3 + ati hd6950 video + a usual 1 tb HDD
> 
> ...


 
   
  50-70 usec doesn't sound too bad with windows 7 - my workstation runs at 87-90 usec but has gaming graphics card, but apart from that I did my best as per CPlay recommendations.  Still its pretty interesting to see how different setups compare in latency.


----------



## kr0gg

i kind of considered my hd6950 to be a gaming card too 
   
  what latency do you have with the new DI and drivers installed now?


----------



## drez

Not sure about new DI - I'm using a modified Hiface at the moment.  Latency with doesn't change with playback with the Hiface, maybe different buffer setup or something.  I can't remember performance with the DI version 1 and I have sold it now.


----------



## hawkhead

Idle 60-70us
   
  With DI-DSP 700-800us (ASIO)
   
  Win 7 64bit


----------



## hawkhead

Just put the D-V1 back and latency stays virtually the same playing music as idle: in the range 70-90us


----------



## kr0gg

check it when playing music


----------



## hawkhead

Yes that is what I did!
  Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> check it when playing music


----------



## Kingwa

Hi every body.
  Tenor company wish can pick up the case who have problem of the TE8802 applied.
  They wish if users  have problem, please send the computer specs to them help them find the matter.
  Please include :
  1, What problems happen?
  2, CPU specs
  3, Ram specs
  4, Operate system (Which Windows or OSX?)
  5, Media player and setting (if applied plugs please include)
   
  Please send to audio-gd@vip.163.com .
  Don't send to king-wa@hotmail.com, these days this mail box have very slow.
   
  Thanks every one help to make the TE8802 develop .


----------



## kr0gg

guys, please check one thing - do you get BSODs when you use upsampling via jumpers on DI?
   
  i have just found out that my DI doesn't actually play 96khz files without being set to upsample.
   
  96khz file + no upsample jumpers = scratches and noise instead of music
  the same 96khz file + 96khz jumpers = music


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> guys, please check one thing - do you get BSODs when you use upsampling via jumpers on DI?
> 
> i have just found out that my DI doesn't actually play 96khz files without being set to upsample.
> 
> ...


 

 96khz works fine for me, but I don't have DI-DSP. I literally get BSODs from anything that outputs audio, frequency/bitrate/etc don't matter.


----------



## robertdarzi

Quick impressions:
   
  The DI DSP is a clear step up from the DI V1.
   
  It is much clearer with better instrument separation. Soundstage is slight wider, though I'm not sure you'd notice if you're busy enjoying the increased clarity!
   
  Many others have noted (and sometimes only noted) the deeper yet tauter bass, but I think the clarity is worth quite a bit more.
   
  I would attribute the decreased noise floor to the asynchronous clocking and reduced jitter especially with the more powerful DSP processor. I'm still very skeptical regarding cable influences, but it might now be worth check out an audiophile USB cable in place of the generic that Audio-Gd ships with their gear.
   
  My only regret now is the DIR9001 chip in the NFB-5 that I'm sure is holding back some proper enjoyment of the 192/24 files I have!
   
  Anyhow, NFB-5 now sounds better thanks to the DI DSP. I do wonder what'd happened if I used an Audiophileo instead! Quite interested in the full potential of the DAC. (But I doubt that'll happen since both the DI and NFB-5 are now on sale as I'm shifting to another country 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. They're available if anyone's interested... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










)


----------



## rictee

My shipment arrived today! Initial impressions are that everything sounds better in every aspect - just so smooth and enjoyable. I know that is very general but I won't jump into critical listening yet.. I just want to enjoy my music!
   
  Here's a pic of them sitting on top of my NFB-10SE.
   

   
  There's a scratch on the front plate though which is quite visible under light - don't think it could've been damaged during shipment as they're packed with foam all around. Hmmm.....


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





darren700 said:


> Ok, so i've had my DI-DSP for about a week now. I burned it in on my server and have just moved it to my main rig along with my W4S DAC1.
> I cannot get 192k to work for the life of me. everything else works, even 172. I have tried multiple software (Foobar2000 and Jriver) and every possible output settings (ASIO, WASAPI, Kernal Streaming) and still no luck. Even from the windows sound setting 192 does not work, the DAC just does not detect it. I have confirmed from W4S that the DAC1 does support 192 over COAX. so i still have no clue what is causing this problem. its not a deal breaker for me, and i am completly happy with the DI otherwise, but one of the reasons i bought it was for the 192 capability! argh... hopefully updated drivers fix this.


 
   
  I suggest doing the following:
   
  Making sure you are using a good-quality 75 Ohm cable. This is very important for 192k support. Canare (eg: from Blue Jeans) is fine.
   
  Try opening it up and switching the outputs if you're using BNC. The current output which is connected by default to the BNC socket doesn't work with all DACs.


----------



## darren700

i am using a monoprice premium coax right now. i have a wireworld starlight 6 coax on order to try aswell. my w4s dac1 doesnt work at all with the bnc output, there was no sound at all using bnc --> rca cable. i will try switching the wires with the bnc and trying it that way too. thanks


----------



## realmassy

Hello, very long thread can someone please point me to the pages where you describe the differences between the two version of the DI? Also, i read about some issues with windows pcs, what about Mac OSX? Thanks in advance.


----------



## rictee

After a few hours playing with my DI-DSP, I think I've found the ideal setting (or at least satisfy me for the time being):
  I set the jumper to up-sample to 192kHz, WASAPI Exclusive mode, Event driven, Latency 12ms - I'm using uLilith player if that matters
   
  ASIO (both ASIO4ALL and Audio-gd USB ASIO) doesn't play nicely for me which I believe is because of the buffer size. ie. if playing a 44.1kHz file, a large buffer will cause crackling/lag; while playing a 192kHz file will require a large buffer. For some reason setting ASIO Buffer Auto Adjustment doesn't work as well.
   
  Also when I move the DI / pick it up even just a few cms to adjust the position while playing, it would cause my Win7 32bit desktop to reboot. No idea why that is but it happened a few times so I'm sure its not because of something else.


----------



## fourwed

It seems that no one has modded the Old DI to TE8802. I have modded it but there was no sound. If someone has done it, please share, thanks.


----------



## johangrb

Just received my DI-DSP. Love the sound, hate the BSODs. Win7 x64, Asus Maximus IV, i7, JRiver MC17 - > DI -> NFB10-SE. Constant "BUGCODE_USB_DRIVER" blue screen - doesn't matter 44.1 or 192kHz. (WASAPI)
   
  My system is 100% stable with my 'old' HiFace EVO.
   
  Driver updates needed for TE8802?


----------



## tim3320070

I have almost the same setup without issue (I use Wasapi Event)- try reinstalling the driver (read Kingwa's comments on this). Make sure all appropriate boxes are checked in Manage Audio Devices. Try another USB port.


----------



## tme110

Quote: 





realmassy said:


> Hello, very long thread can someone please point me to the pages where you describe the differences between the two version of the DI? Also, i read about some issues with windows pcs, what about Mac OSX? Thanks in advance.


 

 The best source of that info is the AGD web page.  The V2 is just the new version of the DI.  The DI-DSP is the new DI with a DSP (digital signal processor) added which is a component used in the ref series DACs.  It adds digital filters etc...


----------



## tme110

all the computer issues are isolated to the last couple pages and so far only a few PC people have an issue.


----------



## Kingwa

Sorry for rude.
  An USA user asked me buy few different brands 74HCU04 some days ago, now I have got the chips but I forgot who is.
  Please contact me if you read this .


----------



## petemac110

tme110 said:


> The best source of that info is the AGD web page.  The V2 is just the new version of the DI.  The DI-DSP is the new DI with a DSP (digital signal processor) added which is a component used in the ref series DACs.  It adds digital filters etc...




I'd explain it a little differently, just to be clear that the DSP was found in the original DI and is not a new feature introduced with the new model. 

The V2 is the new base model which deletes the DSP found in the original DI. 

The DI-DSP is the new top mod which features the DSP like the original DI, but with a revised design.


----------



## Patu

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> I have almost the same setup without issue (I use Wasapi Event)- try reinstalling the driver (read Kingwa's comments on this). Make sure all appropriate boxes are checked in Manage Audio Devices. Try another USB port.


 
   
  I've reinstalled the drivers several times, ticked all boxes, tried different USB-ports and many other things. Nothing helps, the drivers are faulty or seriously incompatible with AMD chipset. Currently playing through Stello U3 with Thesycon drivers. The driver package is very similar to the Tenor driver package, setup process and control panel are very similar. Thesycon drivers just work with all material.


----------



## tim3320070

I have my daughters computer running an AMD with the drivers to my NFB-16 so I'm not sure what combo causes the problem.


----------



## tme110

that works too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Quote: 





petemac110 said:


> I'd explain it a little differently, just to be clear that the DSP was found in the original DI and is not a new feature introduced with the new model.
> The V2 is the new base model which deletes the DSP found in the original DI.
> The DI-DSP is the new top mod which features the DSP like the original DI, but with a revised design.


----------



## BoyNamedSue

I have i7 mobo with windows 7 and haven't had any problems with di-dsp drivers. I haven't tried with amd computer. There's been only a few times computer loaded not detecting the drivers, but problem was easily solved by re-plugging the usb.


----------



## realmassy

petemac110 said:


> I'd explain it a little differently, just to be clear that the DSP was found in the original DI and is not a new feature introduced with the new model.
> The V2 is the new base model which deletes the DSP found in the original DI.
> The DI-DSP is the new top mod which features the DSP like the original DI, but with a revised design.



Thanks!
And do they both use the same tenor chip? So potentially same issue on Windows, but reading in the thread they seem pretty stable on Macosx


----------



## hawkhead

Happily played a few tracks - click on another one and
   
  "Unrecoverable playback error: Endpoint creation failed (0x8889000F)"
   
  DI-DSP in Foobar


----------



## petemac110

Quote: 





realmassy said:


> Thanks!
> And do they both use the same tenor chip? So potentially same issue on Windows, but reading in the thread they seem pretty stable on Macosx


 
   
  No, the original DI uses the older TE7022.


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





hawkhead said:


> Happily played a few tracks - click on another one and
> 
> "Unrecoverable playback error: Endpoint creation failed (0x8889000F)"
> 
> DI-DSP in Foobar


 
   


 when i manually installed hardware drivers in Device manager, it cured the problem.


----------



## Patu

Any news on fix for the drivers? My DI-DSP-S is pretty much useless at the moment. Have to discuss about return possibility if the problem can't be fixed.


----------



## Sganzerla

I changed the hex inverter of my classic DI to 74HCU04AP and the first impressions are of a real change, don't know if it is my mind playing some tricks, but sounds less congested, more detailed, faster and with better harmonics, if that makes sense.
  I noticed some noise in a music and tought it was my left channel tube scratching - it was on the record (never noticed this so clear before).


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> I have my daughters computer running an AMD with the drivers to my NFB-16 so I'm not sure what combo causes the problem.


 
  I have to take this back, I did get the blue screen once, but it is fine other than that one time. Still no issues with my DI-DSP with Win7/ Intel system. It does seem this driver is a bit buggy, I get static if the computer is idle for a while (only very seldom), restarting Media Center fixes it though.


----------



## Kingwa

Quote: 





patu said:


> Any news on fix for the drivers? My DI-DSP-S is pretty much useless at the moment. Have to discuss about return possibility if the problem can't be fixed.


 
   TENOR mother company is an equity capital company.
  I think they can't iignore the driver of there products.
   
  Even they evade the the duty, even we are a little company just like a mosquito in world, but we will process the matter for customers.
   
  If you trust TENOR, or us, please waiting some days see how they process.
   
  I have pick up some feedbacks and send to TENOR for they refer .


----------



## Kingwa

Tenor want the customers who have the blue screen  help them process.
   
  They said:
   
  Please provide dump files (Dump files, previously called crash dumps, allow you to save program information for debugging a later time) to us if you have blue screen problem. You can find it in “C:\windows\minidump” folder and file name like “101911-34070-01.dmp”.
   
  Please send the files to our mail box.
  Thanks.


----------



## Patu

Quote: 





kingwa said:


> TENOR mother company is an equity capital company.
> I think they can't iignore the driver of there products.
> 
> Even they evade the the duty, even we are a little company just like a mosquito in world, but we will process the matter for customers.
> ...


 
   
  Ok let's wait and hope they release a new driver. I sent you the dump files.


----------



## Kingwa

Tenor advice AMD users upgrad the chipest correct driver from Microsoft .
  This upgrade driver want to upgrade by users choice manual.
   
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/982091
   
   
  Stop error code 0x0000009F or Stop error code 0x000000FE on a Windows 7-based or Windows Vista-based computer that uses certain AMD USB EHCI host controllers


----------



## hawkhead

I am on Intel so NO help
   
  and have problems:
   
  Static when pausing
  Device disappears
  Foobar errors
   
  No problems ever with DI V1


----------



## clsidxxl

I have receveid the new D.I dsp (connected to a Ref 7.1)  today ,no probleme for install the driver, but a big latency probleme ,in the task manager the 'interrupts' process is a 20% of processor time;Dpc latency checker at 2500-3000 µs,normally it is a 50-100 µs.I use now the driver generic of Windows.Kingwa, I speak of the problem here, I think you have enough email 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I hope Tenor will solve this problem quickly.There was an improvement with the interface digital,but without driver no asynchrone operations.
   
  Windows Seven x64,4gb pc 6400 Corsair,Intel core 2 quad q 9300,Asus p5q chipset p45


----------



## Baird GoW

This did not fix my problem. My DI-V2-S is still disappearing. It disappears as soon as I stop using it for more than about 10 seconds. For instance when I turn the DI on I have to start playing music immediately for it not to disappear. Luckily I get about 10 seconds from the time the DI is first recognized to configure foobar to use the DI and start playing music. As soon as I pause or stop the music, the Digital Interface vanishes from my "Playback Devices" list and I have to restart my PC before it can be seen again.


----------



## ursdiego

Quote: 





darren700 said:


> Ok, so i've had my DI-DSP for about a week now. I burned it in on my server and have just moved it to my main rig along with my W4S DAC1.
> I cannot get 192k to work for the life of me. everything else works, even 172. I have tried multiple software (Foobar2000 and Jriver) and every possible output settings (ASIO, WASAPI, Kernal Streaming) and still no luck. Even from the windows sound setting 192 does not work, the DAC just does not detect it. I have confirmed from W4S that the DAC1 does support 192 over COAX. so i still have no clue what is causing this problem. its not a deal breaker for me, and i am completly happy with the DI otherwise, but one of the reasons i bought it was for the 192 capability! argh... hopefully updated drivers fix this.


 
  I have a similar problem.
   
  192khz just does NOT work. It looks like working on the computer, over ASIO and the native windows driver. I did not try 172. 96 khz works fine. But 192k : Just no sound.
   
  I feed it over I2S into reference 9. This DAC has a similar design to Reference 7.1 or the earlier Reference 8, just that it is not balanced. Everything else is about the same, on the digital input side anyway: DSP-1 Version 5 into 4x PCM1704 . ( http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/RE9/RE9EN.htm ).
   
  I connect between DI-DSP and RE9 over the naitive cable, with no Kit, just directly, over the shortest way possible, so there is certainly no cable issue.
   
  Sounds great though on 96k. I just wish to play my 192k - files without downsampling...
   
  Anyone any clue...?


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





ursdiego said:


> I have a similar problem.
> 
> 192khz just does NOT work. It looks like working on the computer, over ASIO and the native windows driver. I did not try 172. 96 khz works fine. But 192k : Just no sound.
> 
> ...


 
  Your Ref-9 has 1704 chips which will not work above 24/96. FWIW, I cannot hear any appreciable difference between native 24/192 downsampled to 24/96 (or 16/44.1 for that matter) of the same recording.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





kingwa said:


> Tenor advice AMD users upgrad the chipest correct driver from Microsoft .
> This upgrade driver want to upgrade by users choice manual.
> 
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/982091
> ...


 
  Received 0xFE an hour after installing.
   
  Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> Your Ref-9 has 1704 chips which will not work above 24/96.


 
  Doesn't the 1704*UK* that is used in Audio-GD gear actually support 24/192 but it requires changing the oversampling setting or something?


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> Your Ref-9 has 1704 chips which will not work above 24/96. FWIW, I cannot hear any appreciable difference between native 24/192 downsampled to 24/96 (or 16/44.1 for that matter) of the same recording.


 
   
  If that were the case, the oversampling would not work, as the chips end up receiving 44.1 x 8 = 352.8 kHz for example. The limitation in the Reference models was the input receiver that wouldn't accept over 96 kHz.


----------



## petemac110

currawong said:


> If that were the case, the oversampling would not work, as the chips end up receiving 44.1 x 8 = 352.8 kHz for example. The limitation in the Reference models was the input receiver that wouldn't accept over 96 kHz.




Indeed... Note that Kingwa advises that the new 4xPCM1704UK Ref 5.2 can play 24/192 when equipped with the WM8805 receiver chip.


----------



## tim3320070

Ah, okay I thought it was the chips. In any case, Ref series are limited to 24/96 in standard config......and it sounds great at any sample rate


----------



## ursdiego

Quote: 





ursdiego said:


> I have a similar problem.
> 
> 192khz just does NOT work. It looks like working on the computer, over ASIO and the native windows driver. I did not try 172. 96 khz works fine. But 192k : Just no sound.
> 
> ...


 
  Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> Your Ref-9 has 1704 chips which will not work above 24/96. FWIW, I cannot hear any appreciable difference between native 24/192 downsampled to 24/96 (or 16/44.1 for that matter) of the same recording.


 

 According to Kingwa, the PCM1704-UK -chips play at least up to 24bit / 1536khz. So even 192khz x8 oversampling should work. The standard in my DAC is 96khz input and 8x oversampling, so the PCM1704 s get 768khz, which works fine. In the course of troubleshooting, of course I tried lowering the oversampling rate to 4x, even to 2x and to 1x (aka nos), but nothing helped. I tried it with 176.4 now, too, no sound either, as expected.
  Any other idea, where the issue might be located...?


----------



## darren700

sounds like the exact same problem im having. computer acts like 192k is playing, is detected in windows, but nothing on my W4S DAC1 which does support 192k over Coax. No sound at all and no sample rate detected. Im gonna try new cable (using Monoprice Coax Now).
  I have a Wireworld Starlight 6 and Wireworld Ultraviolet USB on the way which im hoping will solve the problem.


----------



## Kingwa

Got back from Tenor :
   
  2012/7/31-------Before this date we will offer the new driver expect improve performance and fix most problems.
 2012/8/1~2013/1/31-- Fully improve and fix all problems, support the new operate systems (Maybe they are mean the Win8 and Linux) .


----------



## clsidxxl

Hello Kingwa,excuse me but, did you talk about the problem of dpc time - latency driver  http://www.head-fi.org/t/500369/audio-gd-digital-interface/3120#post_8507996
  Thanks


----------



## Kingwa

As I know from they sent the future plan to me, they will fix the blue screen case , improved the CPU load rate, ect .
  And will support other new OS and Linux .
  As I know most software and driver must have time to make it perfect through users feedback .
  I still hold on Tenor chip  , because I consider its sound better than another one well know chip which is we have test them start same time .


----------



## clsidxxl

Thanks Kingwa,the high cpu load rate is related with the high dpc time.We look forward to take advantage of the Tenor chip.


----------



## mtntrance

Just added a DI-DSP with upgraded TXCO clocks to my rig (NFB-8>Phoenix>LCD-2 rev.2).  Couldn't be happier.  The up sampling improvement from Redbook is significant.  Improved sound stage with more distinction with mids/highs without being fatiguing.


----------



## ursdiego

Quote: 





darren700 said:


> sounds like the exact same problem im having. computer acts like 192k is playing, is detected in windows, but nothing on my W4S DAC1 which does support 192k over Coax. No sound at all and no sample rate detected. Im gonna try new cable (using Monoprice Coax Now).
> I have a Wireworld Starlight 6 and Wireworld Ultraviolet USB on the way which im hoping will solve the problem.


 

 That's interesting. What does Kingwa say? Maybe there is still an unknown flaw at the DI. My DAC does not support 192K over coax s/pdif. so I can't test that. It should however work over I2S. Cable can't be the issue, as I tested it with a no-cable-in-between-solution. I will see if I can get a DAC for testing, that supports 192K over coax s/pdif.


----------



## ursdiego

Quote: 





mtntrance said:


> Just added a DI-DSP with upgraded TXCO clocks to my rig (NFB-8>Phoenix>LCD-2 rev.2).  Couldn't be happier.  The up sampling improvement from Redbook is significant.  Improved sound stage with more distinction with mids/highs without being fatiguing.


 

 I agree, it sound great. However, I am limited to 96khz upsampling for the moment, as for an unknown reason, I cannot get 192khz to sound. Have you tested upsampling to 192khz? What is the DAC you are using?


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





fourwed said:


> snip snip
> 
> My DI with lithium battery
> 
> ...


 
  Several weeks ago, some members were using adapters to connect the DI direct to their DACs. I tried this shenanigans with my DI-V2-S and I'm finding it sounds at least as good as my Black Cat Veloce cable, so it may be worthwhile for those of you looking for new tweaks.


----------



## ursdiego

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Several weeks ago, some members were using adapters to connect the DI direct to their DACs. I tried this shenanigans with my DI-V2-S and I'm finding it sounds at least as good as my Black Cat Veloce cable, so it may be worthwhile for those of you looking for new tweaks.


 
  For suitable DACs a direct connection by I2S gives great results too. Just be careful connecting and not moving around the equipment when connected.

   
  This is inside of the DI-DSP. There is a jumper too (not visible at this image) that has to be set to I2S output.

   
  This is inside my DAC Reference 9 with USB. It is below the DSP-module. These are the cable originally connected to the USB-input-module. They are the I2S input. I think, many Reference-DACs of audio-gd look similar. Beware to connect the right cables! LRCK on the DAC connects to WCK on the DI-DSP. 3.3V is of course not connected.

   

   
  I juste leave the DI top-down, on top of the DAC


----------



## kr0gg

did you try playing 192khz by i2s?
   
  by the way the i2s jumper should be set on the farthest position if looking from DI's face? at least i2s works for me with that setting.


----------



## Kingwa

Tenor had sent the new driver to me for  test.
  For the best issue, I have install my computer with the WIN7 64 bit.
  Up to now there is  stably working even I done anythings on it .
  Half of my mates had bought the TE8802 gears, I had ask them test every night and give me the records.
  Hopefully Tenor will release the new driver within this month as they promised.


----------



## clsidxxl

Kingwa,thanks for this good news,the high cpu time is now ok?I will test this driver for you if you want


----------



## hawkhead

Please can you make this test driver available


----------



## kr0gg

yes, it would be nice if we could test the new driver too.


----------



## Kingwa

The matter is Tenor limit I send the driver to end customers.
  So even my mates, only install the driver in their computers from a extra USB memory and they can't keep the driver files.
  There is short tern from Tenor release the driver.


----------



## ursdiego

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> did you try playing 192khz by i2s?
> 
> by the way the i2s jumper should be set on the farthest position if looking from DI's face? at least i2s works for me with that setting.


 

 I don't have the DI right here to me, so I can't check for the jumper setting, however, I set them according to the pictures on audio-gd.com for I2S output.
   
  However, 192khz does just not work. With the help of Kingwa, I did quite some troubleshooting, no success however. The files play on the computer, the driver window on windows shows everything right, but there is just no sound with 192khz-files. I had to set the oversampling-jumpers of the DI to 96khz. I suppose, this downsamples 192k - files to 96k. Then they work. It sounds great anyway, however, I don't like the idea of files being downsampled and re-upsampled in the DAC afterwards. The additional information gets obviousely lost that way. Maybe it sounds just as good, but I would like to be able to test that...
   
  Do you have any experiencies with 192khz-files over I2S ?


----------



## ursdiego

Deleted by original poster, sorry.


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





ursdiego said:


> I don't have the DI right here to me, so I can't check for the jumper setting, however, I set them according to the pictures on audio-gd.com for I2S output.
> 
> However, 192khz does just not work. With the help of Kingwa, I did quite some troubleshooting, no success however. The files play on the computer, the driver window on windows shows everything right, but there is just no sound with 192khz-files. I had to set the oversampling-jumpers of the DI to 96khz. I suppose, this downsamples 192k - files to 96k. Then they work. It sounds great anyway, however, I don't like the idea of files being downsampled and re-upsampled in the DAC afterwards. The additional information gets obviousely lost that way. Maybe it sounds just as good, but I would like to be able to test that...
> 
> Do you have any experiencies with 192khz-files over I2S ?


 
   
  my dac (Northstar 192 mk1) plays 96khz via i2s nicely
  in case of 192khz files it locks on the signal and recognizes it as 192 (it shows that by appropriate lights)
  but it doesn't play anything.
  as i understand, if there would be a problem with the cable i would hear at least noises and distortion.
  but there's just silence.
   
  yes, the problem might be because the optimal voltage for my dac's i2s input is 5v and not 3.3v which DI outputs.
  but having 96khz work perfectly and getting pure silence on 192khz is kinda strange.


----------



## rictee

Quote: 





ursdiego said:


> For suitable DACs a direct connection by I2S gives great results too. Just be careful connecting and not moving around the equipment when connected.


 
   
  Where did you get the I2S cable? I have a NFB-10 and it seems be suitable - "[size=10.0pt]The 24bit/192KHz USB interface outputs an I2S signal to the “Dual WM8741”."[/size]


----------



## JulienM

How do you guys feel about I2S vs S/PDIF when connecting the DI to your DACs? What kind of sonic improvements if any?
   
  What cable are you using?
   
  I received two I2S kits from Kingwa and intend to try it connecting my (new TE8802) DI-DSP to my NFB-8 DAC. I'm just wondering what kind of cable to use... The direct connection doesn't seem very practical...
   
  Any feedback is much appreciated,
   
  J


----------



## JulienM

Actually, ursdiego's setup is not that bad at all... I'll connect my 2 jumper together going through the top vents of the NFB-8 and leave the DI open and upside down over the NFB-8 case. That way, it will be just like if the DI was part of the DAC. And issues with the interface are minimized by removing 2 connection and keeping cable run short.


----------



## darren700

anyone tried DI-DSP Up-sampling?
   
  I have the DI-DSP with both clocks upgraded and the PSU.
   
  i have not tried to up-sampling yet. I am considering changing it to 96k to see how it sounds. for those of you who have tried the up-sampling how do you like it? is it really better than 44k? also have you noticed and negatives to the upsampling? perhaps with a specific genre of music?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## kr0gg

i've used DI's upsampling for quite a long time.
  in fact i've even bought a Tentlabs 24.576mhz clock, but currently i enjoy music without upsampling. it's a matter of my mood, i guess
   
  pros: makes sound more focused, each instrument is localized much-much better, makes overall sound more precised, moves vocals a little forward.
  cons: un-upsampled music sounds a little more natural with longer decays. also upsampling makes sound a little brighter.


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote: 





darren700 said:


> anyone tried DI-DSP Up-sampling?
> 
> I have the DI-DSP with both clocks upgraded and the PSU.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I have mine set to 96khz but have not compared against 44.1.  I have some 96khz music so I just set it to the highest I had.  However everything I've heard sounds better with the DI-DSP then without, so for me, its not worth testing against 44.1.


----------



## cky8

I am interested in the DI-DSP. Does anyone have or know where I can find jitter measurements for DI-DSP? However all that talk about problems with drivers on Windows platform does put me off and makes me wait a little longer.


----------



## preproman

Is the technology on this converter asynchronous or adaptive?  How does it compare to the Audiophilleo 1 and 2 USB to S/PDIF transport?


----------



## Audio Bling

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Is the technology on this converter asynchronous or adaptive?  [..]


 
   
   
  Are you just being lazy or..
   
  Have you looked at the Audio GD website?
   
http://audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/DIv2/DIv2EN.htm


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





cky8 said:


> I am interested in the DI-DSP. Does anyone have or know where I can find jitter measurements for DI-DSP? However all that talk about problems with drivers on Windows platform does put me off and makes me wait a little longer.


 
   


 in fact there are no such comparable measurements about other converters.
  those that exist are a marketing trick, made a in very special way.


----------



## kr0gg

good news to those who have Olimex usb isolator.
   
  it works actually.
  i was able to install drivers and use DI after i've connected a second power supply to the isolator. (Audio-gd's PSU on DI and a 7.5v PSU from my router on the Olimex isolator)
  it was identified as a TE8022 device and i had to manually install the Audio-gd's drivers.
  i guess that isolators didn't work without the PSU only because the te8802 chip + adum isolator eat more than the 500ma a usb port can provide


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> good news to those who have Olimex usb isolator.
> 
> it works actually.
> i was able to install drivers and use DI after i've connected a second power supply to the isolator. (Audio-gd's PSU on DI and a 7.5v PSU from my router on the Olimex isolator)
> ...


 
  Maybe for you. Mine had chronic dropouts (multiple per _second_) when hooked up like this.


----------



## drez

I don't like anything touching the D+ and D- of any digital connection, no galvanic isolation, no chokes, no adapters etc.  I might consider galvanic isolation only for the V+ and ground with a Y-cable or something, but honestly with my system I only ever hear degradation with anything extra placed in the USB digital connection (lesson learnt again with the Vaunix hub)


----------



## log0

Hi All,
  I have a Digital Interface with PSU I bought over a year ago with the TE7702 chip. It is connected to a Reference One DAC with DSP-1 v5. I've been out of head-fi for a while and haven't kept up on the latest offerings in terms of the DI. I see now there are two different versions, one with and without a DSP3 and with I2S. I don't feel like I'm being robbed of any sonic detail or musicality with my current setup (I feel no need to upgrade), but would I benefit at all from getting a newer DI? Would be it redundant to have the DI up-sample the stream with the DSP3 if the DSP1 v5 will do so anyways? Is one DSP better then the other? Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere.


----------



## veritas aurum

The new version uses SMD components which I think are better for digital. I would suggest upgrading the clocks, as I found that to make a substantial difference. YRMV. Regards


----------



## JulienM

log0 said:


> Hi All,
> I have a Digital Interface with PSU I bought over a year ago with the TE7702 chip. It is connected to a Reference One DAC with DSP-1 v5. I've been out of head-fi for a while and haven't kept up on the latest offerings in terms of the DI. I see now there are two different versions, one with and without a DSP3 and with I2S. I don't feel like I'm being robbed of any sonic detail or musicality with my current setup (I feel no need to upgrade), but would I benefit at all from getting a newer DI? Would be it redundant to have the DI up-sample the stream with the DSP3 if the DSP1 v5 will do so anyways? Is one DSP better then the other? Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere.




I find the latest version with the asynchronous TE8802 chip to sound significant better than the original version. I got mine with both TCXO upgrades. Better clocks usually mean better sound... My sistem is sounding better than ever!!


----------



## clsidxxl

I hesitate between a clock .Tentlabs vcxo and the Audio Gd tcxo,can you give me your opinion ,please.


----------



## kr0gg

i have a 24.576 Tentlabs clock and it sounded better when upsampled to 96khz that the upgraded Audio-gd clock.
  but i tested it only on the old DI.
  on the new one - i've put the Tentlabs one and didn't care to compare


----------



## artoist

Hello
   
  I have a DAC from audio gd Reference 5 no dsp version / 96k-max /.
  I would like to purchase the DI + PSU. I see there are now new models. I understand that the V2 version is bad for my DAC. So I want buy the DI DSP ​​+ PSU.
  I would like you to advise me what to choose in addition. Better clock? What? 12.24?
  In what else I should invest? Shipping is expensive and niechciałbym pay 2x then.
   
  Please help.
   
  Regards
  Art


----------



## clsidxxl

Krogg,thanks for your advice,it's the XO or the VCXO  Tentlabs clock that you have.


----------



## DarknightDK

Has anyone tried using their DI-DSP with an external battery supply? Could you recommend me which battery produces the best results for the DI-DSP?
   
  Also, does an external battery improve the SQ over the DI-PSU?


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





darknightdk said:


> Has anyone tried using their DI-DSP with an external battery supply? Could you recommend me which battery produces the best results for the DI-DSP?
> 
> Also, does an external battery improve the SQ over the DI-PSU?


 
   
  i'm using this battery: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Sanyo-18650-2S2P-Li-ion-Battery-pack-7-4V-5-2Ah-4-Wheel-Alignment-W-PCM-Plug-/220969435546?pt=US_Rechargeable_Batteries&hash=item3372ce019a
  there is an improvement in clarity over the audio-gd's PSU,but it is minor.
   
  Quote: 





clsidxxl said:


> Krogg,thanks for your advice,it's the XO or the VCXO  Tentlabs clock that you have.


 
  it's an XO.


----------



## DarknightDK

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> i'm using this battery: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Sanyo-18650-2S2P-Li-ion-Battery-pack-7-4V-5-2Ah-4-Wheel-Alignment-W-PCM-Plug-/220969435546?pt=US_Rechargeable_Batteries&hash=item3372ce019a
> there is an improvement in clarity over the audio-gd's PSU,but it is minor.


 
   
  Thanks! Exactly what I'm looking for. How long does the battery last with the DI-DSP on a single charge?


----------



## kr0gg

there's a circuit which automatically disables it when it drops its voltage due to low charge, so DI  never consumes  a full charge actually.
  i guess it keeps my DI-DSP running for about 7 hours.


----------



## clsidxxl

Krogg,I would like to change the 2 clocks,one for the 8802 is 12mhz and the upsampling is 24,576mhz,the voltage of 3,3 volt is good ? VCXO needs 5volt.


----------



## kr0gg

you have to understand, that although TCXO and XO 5v clocks usually may work with 3.3v, but is not optimal.
  also, i'm not sure if VCXO clocks can work with lower voltage.
   
  i guess you'd better order upgraded clocks from Kingwa


----------



## clsidxxl

The XO specification is 3,3 v to 5 v,this should be ok,the TCXO of Kingwa is a specification of 5 volts ?


----------



## Baird GoW

RELEASE ZE DRIVARS!!!!11111!!!11!1!1


----------



## clsidxxl

Kingwa,the driver Tenor is soon available please?


----------



## johangrb

+1 -request for the new drivers!


----------



## somestranger26

Well they certainly didn't meet the July 31 deadline... it's August 1st in China right now.


----------



## Kingwa

Tenor worker called me yesterday, she inform they have packing the driver and will send to me within few days.
   
  And they have working on a fully new driver applied the full new configuration instead modify on the old driver , can send to me around 15 th Aug.
  And plan to release at the end on Aug.
   
  I can't help them work on the driver.
  But we can promise if the full new driver still can't fix the problems, we will help users fixed the problems.


----------



## clsidxxl

Thank for the information Kingwa.The beta driver that you have received a few days ago we would wait until mid August,


----------



## Kingwa

Tenor tell me the new beta driver will send me around 3th Aug.
  The full new driver will send me at 15th Aug for test .
  They tell me I want consider if want to release the beta driver because the full new driver will coming soon.
  They expect the full new driver will much better .
  They are afraid the new beta driver if can't fix all matter cause users lose their belive.


----------



## hawkhead

Kingwa
   
  you want to ask Tenor why they released such a bad driver


----------



## Currawong

hawkhead: It is just about impossible to release perfect software the first time, as it is impossible to test for every possible combination of software and hardware out there that might cause issues. Inevitably issues only come up when the software is released and they see how it performs with customers.


----------



## Kingwa

At first we feedback the problems to Tenor, they unbelieve because they claim they have not any issue.
  Then they guess maybe the hardware problems? And ask me send two gears to them for test but confirm the hardware without problems.
  Still this issue is quite less, in our feedback only less than 2% users encounter the issue .
  I asked our Thailand agant, they sell a lot every months and today they replied me only two users have the issue.
   
  I can understanding the first driver have the bugs as some other company also encounter this problems.
  So I still waiting their hardwork.


----------



## hawkhead

How hard can it be to test 192 playback via WASAPI - does anyone have that working ?


----------



## HaVoC-28

Quote: 





hawkhead said:


> How hard can it be to test 192 playback via WASAPI - does anyone have that working ?


 
   
  I am not using a DI , but on my NFB-17.2 (wich use Te8802) , foobar => WASAPI => Stock USB cable get with NFB-17.2 => 24bits/192khz  working flawlessly (just listened 10min right now) . But i mosly use 16/44 ...


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote: 





currawong said:


> hawkhead: It is just about impossible to release perfect software the first time, as it is impossible to test for every possible combination of software and hardware out there that might cause issues. Inevitably issues only come up when the software is released and they see how it performs with customers.


 
   
  Exactly. I have NO issues whatsoever and my system has everything overclocked (FSB, CPU, GPU, RAM).
   
  One thing you can try, (not sure if AMD chipset has this), is try disabling High Precision Event Timer.  That should lower the DPC latency.


----------



## icecap

Hi guys, I haven been looking through this thread to and fro and still undecided on 1 thing.. I intend to get the DSP version and have 1 clock upgraded, but does it make more sense to upgrade the clock for upsampling? Since there was discussion that the 12mhz clock upgrade was a tiny improvement? Still, I am not sure how significant the 24.576mhz TCXO clock is since the upsampling is a rather subjective matter too..
   
  Thanks for any advices, really appreciate!


----------



## tim3320070

It's subtle but it does change the sound some, whether it's an improvement is up to the user- it tends to make the vocals sound closer to you and instruments seem more distinctly placed in your head. I could hear this even with my DSP-1 in my dac.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





bojamijams said:


> One thing you can try, (not sure if AMD chipset has this), is try disabling High Precision Event Timer.  That should lower the DPC latency.


 
  It does not lower DPC latency.


----------



## veritas aurum

Quote: 





icecap said:


> Hi guys, I haven been looking through this thread to and fro and still undecided on 1 thing.. I intend to get the DSP version and have 1 clock upgraded, but does it make more sense to upgrade the clock for upsampling? Since there was discussion that the 12mhz clock upgrade was a tiny improvement? Still, I am not sure how significant the 24.576mhz TCXO clock is since the upsampling is a rather subjective matter too..
> 
> Thanks for any advices, really appreciate!


 
  It depends on how revealing your system is and how "picky" you are. I noticed a distinct improvement with the 12mhz upgrade, but I listen to some brutally revealing speakers in a very purist system. Regards


----------



## icecap

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> It's subtle but it does change the sound some, whether it's an improvement is up to the user- it tends to make the vocals sound closer to you and instruments seem more distinctly placed in your head. I could hear this even with my DSP-1 in my dac.


 
   
  Quote: 





veritas aurum said:


> It depends on how revealing your system is and how "picky" you are. I noticed a distinct improvement with the 12mhz upgrade, but I listen to some brutally revealing speakers in a very purist system. Regards


 
  these 2 observations with both the clocks upgraded?


----------



## Kingwa

Can any one help to test if the TE8802 can playback the DSD files?
  A Hongkong customer send me the DSD plug, one DSD track asked I test .
  When I told him there is no problems of the playback he appear beyond belief .
  Thanks.


----------



## kr0gg

i thought that SPDIF in DI can transmit only PCM stream?
   
  DSD is totally different.
  yes, you may convert DSD to PCM, but it will ruin the whole idea of DSD.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> i thought that SPDIF in DI can transmit only PCM stream?
> 
> DSD is totally different.
> yes, you may convert DSD to PCM, but it will ruin the whole idea of DSD.


 
   
  I think you are right, I've heard of DSD over USB but never DSD over SPDIF/coaxial connection.
   
  Most audio players convert the DSD to PCM so it will work, but it wont be natively supporting DSD ie streaming PWM to the DAC chip.


----------



## veritas aurum

I use the DI between a TASCAM cd200 and an Anedio D2.  I have upgraded both clocks both have never used the upsampling. I told you I was a puriist! Regards


----------



## Kingwa

Got the call from Tenor this morning.
  They change the words , they said they are working hard and will release the full new driver at next week , except at 14 th but they said maybe tell customers at 16th.
  They said this driver is their best driver up to now.
  So they won't send the old version to me and customers.
  Sorry for the delay repeatedly.
  Wish they can release the driver in time.


----------



## kr0gg

wow. cool.
  is that possible that the new driver will sound even nicer?


----------



## HaVoC-28

Quote: 





kingwa said:


> Can any one help to test if the TE8802 can playback the DSD files?
> A Hongkong customer send me the DSD plug, one DSD track asked I test .
> When I told him there is no problems of the playback he appear beyond belief .
> Thanks.


 
   
  Hi ^^ well i don't know if it's ok but => with Foobar 2K player , with http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_input_dsdiff (DSD decoder) , on NFB-17.2 straight with USB it's working , i don't know if there is a DSD to PCM conversion done by foobar with the plugin , but at least there is sound .
   
  http://www.2l.no/hires/index.html   (sample music from here) peraphs something is wrong there too . But a least i tryed


----------



## Currawong

I worked out what the problem was with Kingwa via email. His customer had send him a DSD file that had been down-sampled to 88.2k.


----------



## HaVoC-28

Quote: 





currawong said:


> I worked out what the problem was with Kingwa via email. His customer had send him a DSD file that had been down-sampled to 88.2k.


 
   
  Seams that i used same kind of file on , A-GD USB audio control , in stream status it showed also 88.2k , but you allready solved it so no matter ^^


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> wow. cool.
> is that possible that the new driver will sound even nicer?


 
  I think it is possible though probably unlikely to be significant. I remember when Windows 7 SP1 came out it had a new USB audio driver that made a slight improvement with the old DI's sound quality.


----------



## DarknightDK

Wow. I just switched the power supply of the DI-DSP from USB to an external Li-Ion battery and what a difference it made. The sound became more focused - better defined highs and better transparency to the music. Definitely an improvement in clarity, like a veil had been lifted. Cymbals sound more realistic with a bite to them and vocals are more upfront and natural. I highly recommend using an external power supply for the DI-DSP. The difference is not subtile and you will notice it right away.


----------



## icecap

Quote: 





veritas aurum said:


> I use the DI between a TASCAM cd200 and an Anedio D2.  I have upgraded both clocks both have never used the upsampling. I told you I was a puriist! Regards


 

 hah! ok.. I chose just the DI-V2-S with upgraded clock in the end, after deciding probably just gonna keep my music library with the variety of sample rates to pass through as they are and not kept to one upsampled rate...
   
  Quote: 





darknightdk said:


> Wow. I just switched the power supply of the DI-DSP from USB to an external Li-Ion battery and what a difference it made. The sound became more focused - better defined highs and better transparency to the music. Definitely an improvement in clarity, like a veil had been lifted. Cymbals sound more realistic with a bite to them and vocals are more upfront and natural. I highly recommend using an external power supply for the DI-DSP. The difference is not subtile and you will notice it right away.


 
   
  may I know what battery u using? the same as recommended in the past pages?


----------



## DarknightDK

Quote: 





icecap said:


> may I know what battery u using? the same as recommended in the past pages?


 
   
  Yep, That's the one.


----------



## kr0gg

i guess Kingwa should start asking his sales % from the ebay seller for creating a new market for him


----------



## DarknightDK

kr0gg said:


> i guess Kingwa should start asking his sales % from the ebay seller for creating a new market for him




Kingwa should start selling external batteries as optional accessories for the DI


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote: 





darknightdk said:


> Kingwa should start selling external batteries as optional accessories for the DI


 
   
  That goes against his philosophy.  He has stated he believes well-designed AC power supplies are better.
   
  I'm no engineer but I always thought DC/batteries was the cleanest method of supplying power.


----------



## cky8

It all comes down to implementation. If one uses AC power or USB power then just make sure you filter that noise out in your design.


----------



## icecap

Quote: 





cky8 said:


> It all comes down to implementation. If one uses AC power or USB power then just make sure you filter that noise out in your design.


 
  Am I right to say that the built-in 3 groups (or 5 groups for DI-DSP) of Class A PSUs helps in filtering out a certain level of noise from whichever power is supplied through DC?


----------



## drez

Quote: 





ipodpj said:


> That goes against his philosophy.  He has stated he believes well-designed AC power supplies are better.
> 
> I'm no engineer but I always thought DC/batteries was the cleanest method of supplying power.


 
   
  Batteries are great but the problem is voltage changes as the battery discharges - often too high at first then settling to fairly even but slow downward trend eg: http://www.batteryspace.com/LiFePO4-Prismatic-Box-Battery-12.8V-20Ah-256Wh-10C-rate-without-PCM.aspx
  I'm still not sure whether it is better to use direct batter or to use a linear voltage regulator for the battery.  Oh another thing is AC supply is less likely to spontaneously combust 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  I don't mean to knock batteries as I just paid $500 for the battery supply for the Audiophilleo.


----------



## fourwed

I am so glad that more and more people agree with my lithium battery tweak. (Please do correct me if I am not the first one posted here)


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





ipodpj said:


> That goes against his philosophy.  He has stated he believes well-designed AC power supplies are better.
> 
> I'm no engineer but I always thought DC/batteries was the cleanest method of supplying power.


 
  He would if EMS / DHL allowed him to ship batteries. "We only can find the battery in Chinese market, but *both DHL and EMS have limit shipping the battery*." - Kingwa
   
  Quote: 





fourwed said:


> I am so glad that more and more people agree with my lithium battery tweak. (Please do correct me if I am not the first one posted here)


 
  You were not the first . A few of us had them with the original DI with which it made a much bigger difference.


----------



## fourwed

Quote: 





> fourwed said:
> 
> 
> > I am so glad that more and more people agree with my lithium battery tweak. (Please do correct me if I am not the first one posted here)
> ...


 
   
  I proposed this back from 04/12 with my DI-V1 and we had some discussions about these. 
   
  I still think the lithium battery improves my DI-V2-S but not that substantial.


----------



## somestranger26

fourwed said:


> I proposed this back from 04/12 with my DI-V1 and we had some discussions about these.
> 
> I still think the lithium battery improves my DI-V2-S but not that substantial.



 
 Oh my bad, I forgot you posted back then. I thought you just got the battery. The battery seems popular, but how many have tried direct-connecting the BNC/RCA to their DAC? I thought that made as much difference as the battery did.


----------



## Patu

Still waiting for the new drivers...


----------



## fourwed

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Oh my bad, I forgot you posted back then. I thought you just got the battery. The battery seems popular, but how many have tried direct-connecting the BNC/RCA to their DAC? I thought that made as much difference as the battery did.


 
   
  I totally agree with you. This is a cheap and effective tweak. Just remember to get a 75ohm connector if possible or there should be distortion.


----------



## icecap

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Oh my bad, I forgot you posted back then. I thought you just got the battery. The battery seems popular, but how many have tried direct-connecting the BNC/RCA to their DAC? I thought that made as much difference as the battery did.


 

 just received my DI-V2-S today! surely it gives out a very well separated layerings of instruments that is really a joy to listen to!! the possibilities to tweak this DI is really huge.. I realised coaxial cable connections between DI and my DAC gives a bassy and forward-vocal flavours.. direct connection with a BNC-RCA connector was, wow, opening the soundstage with a greater depth surrounding my rear.. bass was reduced slightly but tighter which I have compensation from DT990 Pro... however, vocals, too, was recessed that bit, something I would enjoy more from the cable connection.. that I guess I will compensate from a better tube of my 12au7 headphone amp.. but oh well, some more burn-in time needed to make a more accurate assessments... 
   
  Quote: 





fourwed said:


> I totally agree with you. This is a cheap and effective tweak. Just remember to get a 75ohm connector if possible or there should be distortion.


 
   
  may I know if you do know of any link for such? I don't know at all if mine was 75ohm or not... ebay is selling so many types but with no mentioning of the impedance...
   
  and one more question, has anyone tried powering DI with a DC wall-wart adapter? any takes on that? thanks!


----------



## fourwed

Quote: 





icecap said:


> just received my DI-V2-S today! surely it gives out a very well separated layerings of instruments that is really a joy to listen to!! the possibilities to tweak this DI is really huge.. I realised coaxial cable connections between DI and my DAC gives a bassy and forward-vocal flavours.. direct connection with a BNC-RCA connector was, wow, opening the soundstage with a greater depth surrounding my rear.. bass was reduced slightly but tighter which I have compensation from DT990 Pro... however, vocals, too, was recessed that bit, something I would enjoy more from the cable connection.. that I guess I will compensate from a better tube of my 12au7 headphone amp.. but oh well, some more burn-in time needed to make a more accurate assessments...
> 
> 
> may I know if you do know of any link for such? I don't know at all if mine was 75ohm or not... ebay is selling so many types but with no mentioning of the impedance...
> ...


 
   
  You should search this thread first.
   
  75ohm adapter:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/500369/audio-gd-digital-interface/2880#post_8409159
   
  For DC wall-wart adapter, I tested this one, which should be a good one but still I think battery is better.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/500369/audio-gd-digital-interface/2850#post_8392433


----------



## icecap

thanks for the links fourwed! I saw the BNC connectors links before.. I should have made it clearer that the connector I am checking for 75ohm is a BNC male to RCA male adapter, as my DAC does not have a BNC input..
   
  anyway, further tests today I found the better resolution from switching coaxial cable connection to direct BNC-RCA connector connection was more likely down to the Applied Current Conveyor Technology in BNC and the transmit insulate model output of the RCA.. I swapped the connectors inside my DI and got the clearer sounds from the RCA output.. so I guessed either it will be a direct RCA-RCA connector connection or an all RCA SPDIF cable connection between my DI and DAC..
   
  for the wall-wart DC adapter, will try it out if I managed to find an appropriate one lying somehwere in my house from those appliances...


----------



## Kingwa

Tenor just send the new driver to me .
  This is the formal release version they don't need we test at first, maybe they have enough believe on it.
  I just have the quick test in different systems now and will upload on web for users download within few hours. Once we finished the upload we will inform in our web page. If users can't download proper, please send email to ask we send the driver through mail box.
   
  The driver must unzip by RAR.
  Before install the new driver, please uninstall the old driver and restart the computer. After install the driver please restart the computer again.
  The new driver had declare:
  [size=10.5pt][V1.1.27.2a] [/size]
  [size=10.5pt]        1. Support Win8 preview.[/size]
  [size=10.5pt]        2. MAC driver had been digital signed.[/size]
  [size=10.5pt]        3. Formal Release.[/size]
   
  [size=10.5pt]Please test and feedback, thanks.[/size]


----------



## fourwed

Quote: 





icecap said:


> thanks for the links fourwed! I saw the BNC connectors links before.. I should have made it clearer that the connector I am checking for 75ohm is a BNC male to RCA male adapter, as my DAC does not have a BNC input..
> 
> anyway, further tests today I found the better resolution from switching coaxial cable connection to direct BNC-RCA connector connection was more likely down to the Applied Current Conveyor Technology in BNC and the transmit insulate model output of the RCA.. I swapped the connectors inside my DI and got the clearer sounds from the RCA output.. so I guessed either it will be a direct RCA-RCA connector connection or an all RCA SPDIF cable connection between my DI and DAC..
> 
> for the wall-wart DC adapter, will try it out if I managed to find an appropriate one lying somehwere in my house from those appliances...


 
   
  From the Internet information, RCA were not designed to handle 75ohm.
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/75ohmrca.htm
   
  I know some RCA-RCA cables are labelled 75ohm but not RCA-RCA connector. Please let me know if you find one.


----------



## Kingwa

The drivers had can for download now.
   
  The Canare RCA plugs are the real 75 ohm specs they have declare.
  But the most RCA socekts and  RCA plugs have not 75 ohm impedance.


----------



## Baird GoW

Bad news my DI still disconnects.


----------



## somestranger26

The new drivers fixed absolutely nothing on my computer, and DPC latency is still 3500-5000us.


----------



## icecap

Unfortunately this is not working on mine either.. Music crunched and distorted after less than 10 seconds.. I am on MacBook snow leopard using Audirvana Plus on integer mode..


----------



## Kingwa

Quote: 





icecap said:


> Unfortunately this is not working on mine either.. Music crunched and distorted after less than 10 seconds.. I am on MacBook snow leopard using Audirvana Plus on integer mode..


 
  The old driver just working fine with mac but the new can't .
  I have discussing with Tenor if have wrong packing the driver to me , .


----------



## cky8

Are there other USB to S/PDIF converters based on the TE8802 receiver chip that experience similar problems? Or is it specifically the DI?


----------



## icecap

kingwa said:


> The old driver just working fine with mac but the new can't .
> I have discussing with Tenor if have wrong packing the driver to me , .



No worries! Thanks for reassuring.. It isn't too much of a trouble to get the old driver back in my Mac anyway!


----------



## clsidxxl

I had problems with latency in windows seven,now i have instaled windows 8 and one card usb 3 (chipset nec) the old and new driver work very well( all resolutions),no probleme of lantency,what has solved the problem, windows 8 or usb 3.0 card ,all?


----------



## drez

Quote: 





clsidxxl said:


> I had problems with latency in windows seven,now i have instaled windows 8 and one card usb 3 (chipset nec) the old and new driver work very well( all resolutions),no probleme of lantency,what has solved the problem, windows 8 or usb 3.0 card ,all?


 
   
  I think they improved the audio streaming in Windows 8, I have not yet tried windows install on a USB stick - I might try with windows 8 on USB 3 as the USB stick I bought doesn't seem to be selling fast, I need a motherboard with more bandwidth though (I'm still on P55 chipset).  Looking to upgrade to Z77 mini-ITX build soon unless the next chipset looks too tempting.


----------



## Kingwa

Quote: 





icecap said:


> No worries! Thanks for reassuring.. It isn't too much of a trouble to get the old driver back in my Mac anyway!


 
  Sorry the new driver have not problems in fact.
  Communicate with Tenor, they have test and reply as well, they emphasize I want to delete the old driver.
  Then I try , find the old driver :  System----> Libaray----> Extensions -------> AudiogdUSBaudio.kext , delete this file, restart the Mac , install the new driver now it work fine.


----------



## icecap

Quote: 





kingwa said:


> Sorry the new driver have not problems in fact.
> Communicate with Tenor, they have test and reply as well, they emphasize I want to delete the old driver.
> Then I try , find the old driver :  System----> Libaray----> Extensions -------> AudiogdUSBaudio.kext , delete this file, restart the Mac , install the new driver now it work fine.


 
  Alright! did as instructed and everything is fine now.. (although I thought the previous one was fine enough, hah) Thanks for the instructions! I was just overwriting it previously as I couldn't find the file to remove...
   
  anyway, today I just tried connecting the DI directly to my DAC with a RCA-RCA connector.. I wouldn't dare say it was a 75ohm one, but it was so far the best I could find in terms of constructions which is all metal, unlike what was usually seen elsewhere with plastic (red/black) sleeve.. was thinking of buying the Viablue adapter as posted by a couple of users here from ebay.fr but for now I think I am satisfied..
   
  and right now I am connecting the DI a direct USB connection to a USB Hub (A-B male adapter) WITH the DC socket connected to the Hub also with a USB-DC cable.. it was a mean to see if separating the data from the power would be better than utilising the single cable as a source for both.. with each individual port capable of delivering only 5v/500mah max, I then use a Y splitter cable to direct the power from 2 ports to the DC socket.. at least this allows me to draw more current although 5v is fixed.. 
   
  results were quite obvious in terms of soundstage and instruments definitions as below:
   
*single USB cable USB powered < single USB DC powered < single USB-Y Cable DC powered (bass slightly more defined)*
   
   
  the USB hub I supposed is slightly cleaner in terms of noise, as a direct connection to my macbook USB port yielded the most congested and veiled sound.. connection to the hub and powered by just a single USB cable was a great improvement in my case.. subsequent powerings with DC from the other ports give it a further push as described above..
   
  thus, just a sharing for anyone who is interested to try it out.. it is definitely a useful addon as there is only a wall plug involved (the power from one of the port replaced my another wall plug to power a fan to cool my small tube amp)


----------



## ninjikiran

A USB hub should theoretically power the device from its wall wart.  You can get a high quality wall wart~  If you use a USB hub without than it shouldnt be any different.
   
  My problem with USB interface is more with glitching if the computer is under duress.  Optical/Spdif generally doesn't get affected by these things.


----------



## tim3320070

Well, the new driver is working great for me (using my NFB16 with Vista 32 bit). I could never pause for more than a couple of seconds without static, I also had hiccups- all that appears to be gone. I will try it with my DI on my home rig next, but it never had many problems.


----------



## tubesound

I never had a problem with the old TE8802 driver but the new driver gives me stutters and high usage of CPU. I reversed back to the old version. My operating system is Windows 7 64-bit.


----------



## zenki14

For me the TE8802 old driver and the new driver both have high CPU load.  Win 7 64bit.  That's the only issue and it's not major (just raises temp by about 4-5 degrees) so I can live with it, but I'm just not using USB in the meantime.


----------



## fourwed

I have it with my Lenovo Notebook, Win 7 64 bit. No issue wth the old driver.
   
  The new driver functions but it gives me static sound quite often. I uninstall the new driver, reboot and re-install, no imprvement.
   
  I have to switch back to the old driver.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





icecap said:


> Alright! did as instructed and everything is fine now.. (although I thought the previous one was fine enough, hah) Thanks for the instructions! I was just overwriting it previously as I couldn't find the file to remove...
> 
> anyway, today I just tried connecting the DI directly to my DAC with a RCA-RCA connector.. I wouldn't dare say it was a 75ohm one, but it was so far the best I could find in terms of constructions which is all metal, unlike what was usually seen elsewhere with plastic (red/black) sleeve.. was thinking of buying the Viablue adapter as posted by a couple of users here from ebay.fr but for now I think I am satisfied..
> 
> ...


 
   
  Very interesting and informative findings! - so maybe macbook 5V power is not so clean?


----------



## Frank Sol

Hi... New guy here but I've been around several audio forums for a good while...
  
  I finally got my EeePC w/Win7 -> DI-DSP -> NFB 3.1 to work and sound as they should.
   
  I use Foobar2000 and the latest a-gd drivers released on the 13th. I had many of the same problems as mentioned above.
   
  Tonight I added the Foobar WASAPI (foo_out_wasapi.dll). Under 'output' in the preference I have two a-gd options: 1. just a-gd and 2. wasapi a-gd
   
  1. Skips and spurts
   
  2. Is like what I hear when I run my Squeezebox Touch+EDO -> DI-DSP -> NFB 3.1 - In other words GREAT 
   
  Maybe this will help because I know other players can us WASAPI


----------



## cky8

Quote: 





drez said:


> Very interesting and informative findings! - so maybe macbook 5V power is not so clean?


 
   
  Computers, laptops, macbook etc all have noisy USB power lines. There are ways to provide 'cleaner' power or filter that noise out.


----------



## matsukawags

I have a Lenovo W500 Win7 64 bit - Both drivers old and new have Static when pausing for a short time.  Otherwise sounds great.


----------



## hawkhead

Dear Kingwa / Tenor
   
  thank you for another pathetic attempt at a driver for the DI-DSP
   
  It took 5 seconds to fill my headphones with static after a pause
   
  Latency is worse ~1500us
   
  Maybe you can test the next one ?????????????????????????????


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





hawkhead said:


> Dear Kingwa / Tenor
> 
> thank you for another pathetic attempt at a driver for the DI-DSP


 
  Yeah, this is ridiculous. The driver was supposedly rebuilt 'from scratch' and yet it behaves 100% identically to the previous driver with blue screens and all. I told Kingwa I'm returning both of mine if they can't fix their crap, and he mentioned that I could wait for their " process plan at early of next month ." I wonder what that is supposed to mean.


----------



## realmassy

Given all those issues with Tenor drivers it would be nice to see a XMOS-based driverless version of the DI.


----------



## cky8

Everything needs drivers. However XMOS solutions require a custom build driver which are not standard included in Windows. AFAIK the manufacturer can go to Thesycon and acquire a license.
   
  That said. I asked before if other TE8802 based solutions experience similar problems. Or it is a specific combination of the TE8802 implementation in DI that causes problems?


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





realmassy said:


> Given all those issues with Tenor drivers it would be nice to see a XMOS-based driverless version of the DI.


 
  Or whatever the new chip in the NFB-11.32 is unless it's just a cleverly disguised TE8802.


----------



## somestranger26

Great. It looks like they are just abandoning support for their product. Kingwa told me they are not going to fix the problems with the drivers. Is there really nobody else having issues? I can't believe that I can't use it after waiting three months for new drivers.


----------



## HaVoC-28

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Great. It looks like they are just abandoning support for their product. Kingwa told me they are not going to fix the problems with the drivers. Is there really nobody else having issues? I can't believe that I can't use it after waiting three months for new drivers.


 
   
  Format C: 
   
   
  Sometimes a clean install can help . But i understand your anger about a product not working as it should . 
   
  Being a former NFB-17.2 (with TE8802) Chips i had chance to have it working  from the start , just a strange drop out (the unite vanished from computer time to time , very randomly like 1-3 days ) , and solved by uninstalling / reinstalling driver and cleaning registry .


----------



## somestranger26

I've already clean reinstalled Windows and it did not fix a thing.


----------



## HaVoC-28

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> I've already clean reinstalled Windows and it did not fix a thing.


 
   






 , hum sorry to hear that , tryed on another computer ? Anyway hope that something will be find out , if not  , well buy something else there is others digital transports out there ..


----------



## hawkhead

No you are not alone - my original DI has worked perfectly unlike the DI-DSP
   
  Kingwa are you listening ?


----------



## arnaud

Not sure what kingwa can do extra here... I'd just recommend everyone getting a used mac mini as music server and be done with it lol . Haven't installed the latest and greatest driver but the original one works flawlessly from day 1 using osx lion (and more recently mountain lion).


----------



## Frank Sol

Quote: 





arnaud said:


> Not sure what kingwa can do extra here... I'd just recommend everyone getting a used mac mini as music server and be done with it lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I've looked and could not find a link to the OLD drivers... Maybe I looked over it?
   
  Do you have a link to the old drivers ? Anyone ?
   
  Thanks


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





arnaud said:


> Not sure what kingwa can do extra here... I'd just recommend everyone getting a used mac mini as music server and be done with it lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I use my system for a lot more than just music. That would completely defeat the flexibility (and point of) the DI. I'm very reluctantly admitting defeat (this must be the only device on the market with such issues...) and ordered a Musical Fidelity V-Link 192 as a replacement.


----------



## Currawong

I had a weird issue with the new drivers not working on one of my Macs when I installed it. Prior to that the system had thrown up an error regarding the driving saying it wouldn't work. I had to uninstall it before re-installing it for it to work. I'd hate to think of the possible issues with Windows where the range of hardware and software combinations is effectively infinite.


----------



## tim3320070

I decided to leave the original software in place with my DI (Win 7 64bit) as it works without issue and if it ain't broke.....on the other hand my NFB16 with my Vista 32bit laptop is still buggy with the new driver but improved for sure. I will try a reinstall.


----------



## fakju

Hello, yes, you're not alone. I bought DI V2 with txco about 2 weeks ago and I can not use it. Opened, playing foobar through di v2 causes 100% heavy load of my 2 core intel laptop processor (win7x64) and I can not do anything else. Of course that 100% load causes that music or any other sound interrupts and thats it. Seems like driver support Win7 pretty badly. On dell with With Win XP is OK.


----------



## kr0gg

i don't want to sound rude, but, guys, to me your problems sound to be originating from motherboard USB or something.
  the only cases when my DI-DSP gives BSODS is sometimes when it is unplugged from my PC.
   
  i've used it on my both home PC's (i3-2100 and E5200) in winXP/32, win7/32, win7/64, win8CP and didn't have a single problem (aside from the usual Audio-gd trouble with soundstage moving to a side, requiring to reboot the DI in order to fix it).
  talking about the latency - yes, it is high.
  but in my case it only causes troubles when playing Battlefield3 - i get lower FPS, but it's still playable.


----------



## icecap

The tweak I posted was not really successful afterall.. The instability of having Audirvana+ not operating correctly was probably driving me nuts.. It was the slight noise I heard that got me abandoned the y-cable trial too.. The strange behaviour from Audirvana+ also got me wonder if the new driver was the culprit.. But my slow Macbook could also be the weak link that stutters the system..
   
  although all is still playable, I gave it a try of running my whole setup over to the other room with Win7 64bit foobar2k.. Installation and everything with the previous driver was a breeze.. Set on using WASAPI as the sound was less congested.. ASIO is also setting the output to a fixed sample rate which is too troublesome for me to keep changing.. other than that, playing music is fine without CPU peaks..
   
  however, I realised 24bit for both 88.2khz and 176.4khz are not supported by DI, as they are not listed under audio properties? playing 176.4khz contents at 24bit periodically has a "click" noise.. outputting at 16bit has no such problem.. playing other sample rates at 24bits reported no such problem too.. I am not sure is this then a driver issue?
   
  and yes, again, plugging through a powered USB made a better difference too...
   
  UPDATE: although no CPU peaks, latency was unsually high on 96khz contents yet with possible instant scrubbings.. latency was at acceptable yellow level for 176.4khz and 192khz contents but static comes immediately upon scrubbing... weird weird weird...


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> i don't want to sound rude, but, guys, to me your problems sound to be originating from motherboard USB or something.
> the only cases when my DI-DSP gives BSODS is sometimes when it is unplugged from my PC.
> 
> i've used it on my both home PC's (i3-2100 and E5200) in winXP/32, win7/32, win7/64, win8CP and didn't have a single problem (aside from the usual Audio-gd trouble with soundstage moving to a side, requiring to reboot the DI in order to fix it).
> ...


 
  I have tried my motherboard USB ports, ports off of an NEC USB 3 chip, and off of another NEC USB 2 PCI add in card... it has nothing to do with the USB ports. It might have something to do with the motherboard, but I still cannot imagine why this is the only device of its kind with these issues. The latency is fine on my desktop (which BSODs) but is completely game-breaking on my laptop (which works) since it causes movies to skip, severe frame rate drop in games, etc..


----------



## fourwed

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> I have tried my motherboard USB ports, ports off of an NEC USB 3 chip, and off of another NEC USB 2 PCI add in card... it has nothing to do with the USB ports. It might have something to do with the motherboard, but I still cannot imagine why this is the only device of its kind with these issues. The latency is fine on my desktop (which BSODs) but is completely game-breaking on my laptop (which works) since it causes movies to skip, severe frame rate drop in games, etc..


 
   
  Hi, somestranger26, may be you could post your BSOD screen caputre here and we could take a look of that. It might tell us what your problem is.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





fourwed said:


> Hi, somestranger26, may be you could post your BSOD screen caputre here and we could take a look of that. It might tell us what your problem is.


 
  Hah. I highly doubt it will ever be fixed based on my communication with Kingwa. I get BUGCODE_USB_DRIVER (0x000000FE), MULTIPLE_IRP_REQUESTS (0x00000044), and IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL (0x0000000A) as well as static sometimes while pausing, garbage while seeking files, etc. The driver is fundamentally flawed to cause these issues and it is appalling to me how they are sweeping the issue under the rug.


----------



## clsidxxl

somestranger26, did you try with windows 8 rtm


----------



## somestranger26

No, I'm staying on Windows 7 until they let you disable Metro completely.


----------



## Bojamijams

To the people having issues on PC's... have you built that PC or is it a pre-made from a manufacturer?
   
  Because of the issues I've tried it on 3 of my PC's and my MBP and all work fine .. this is with original driver... all 3 PC's use Win7 x64 and all are patched with the latest windows updates, latest drivers for chipset (very important!), BIOS, and everything else (though I don't think other things make a difference)
   
  The systems tested
   
  Asus p67 motherboard
  i7 2600k o/c to 4.7ghz
   
  MSI AMD 870
  AMD B55 (dual core unlocked to quad core and O/C to 3.2ghz)
   
  MSI P45
  E5300 OC to 3.4ghz


----------



## drez

But other chips can run without drivers at all eg the old Tenor 7022 or whatever, or if they have drivers do not have compatibility issues because they are designed properly eg Thescyon XMOS drivers.  
   
  I feel bad for Kingwa putting so much work into the DI v2 and being let down by Tenor on the drivers...


----------



## Sab666

I have a Reference 10.2 with the Tenor TE8802 chip and having BSOD crashes regularly and randomly. Its directly plugged into the PC via USB cable and Im using driver version 1.1.27.2a . PC is:
   
   
  Computer Brand Name:                                            GIGABYTE GA-890XA-UD3
  Operating System:                                               Microsoft Windows 7 Professional (x64) Build 7601
  Service Pack:                                                   Service Pack 1
  Processor:                                                      AMD Phenom II X6 1090T (3200.0 MHz)
  Motherboard:                                                    GIGABYTE GA-890XA-UD3 (AMD 790X (RD780) + SB810/SB850)
  Memory:                                                         8 GBytes (Dual-Channel)
  Hard Drive:                                                     WDC WD10EALS-00Z8A0 (953,869 MBytes (1000 GB))
                                                                  OCZ-VERTEX3 MI (228,936 MBytes (240 GB))
                                                                  Seagate ST3500630AS (476,940 MBytes (500 GB))
  Display Adapter:                                                nVIDIA GeForce GTX 480 (GF100) [GIGABYTE]
   
  Does anybody know if using a USB interface such as a Audiophilleo1/2 would help ??


----------



## kr0gg

guys!
   
  those of you who have troubles with BSODs and stuff - please - try to set latency and buffer everywhere in your software player to any possible maximum.
   
  i'm sure that it will help at least some of you!


----------



## Frank Sol

Quote: 





drez said:


> I feel bad for Kingwa putting so much work into the DI v2 and being let down by Tenor on the drivers...


 
   
   
  It is easy to forget that Kingwa & Company are not the software/driver programers


----------



## Baird GoW

Yes we'll just blame the programmers, not the person selling the item without thoroughly checking for problems first. Makes sense to me.


----------



## Frank Sol

@ Baird GoW
   
  There is enough 'blame' to spread it around...
   
  Personally I've worked-out the problems I had with my SBT & Eee Pc thanks to research & the help from others


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





sab666 said:


> I have a Reference 10.2 with the Tenor TE8802 chip and having BSOD crashes regularly and randomly. Its directly plugged into the PC via USB cable and Im using driver version 1.1.27.2a . PC is:
> 
> Does anybody know if using a USB interface such as a Audiophilleo1/2 would help ??


 
  Yes. I just got a V-Link 192 (only $250 from ebay france) which is based on the XMOS chipset and it completely eliminated the issues I was experiencing, and it sounds better than DI w/ battery to me without any burn-in.


----------



## kr0gg

Does anyone know what chip is that?
   
  http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USB32/USB32EN.htm


----------



## drez

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> Does anyone know what chip is that?
> 
> http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USB32/USB32EN.htm


 
   
  NO Idea - here is the NFB-11 though - I can't make anything out:


----------



## somestranger26

It could be a chip manufactured by VIA, since all the files in the drivers are like "viausb.dll". Definitely not Tenor / TE8802, so it shouldn't have problems. 
   
  edit: I tried finding vendor with the "VID" or vendor ID inside ViaUsbAudio.inf, but it brought up nothing. So, just based on the filenames I think it must be a via chip although I had no idea they were in this market.


----------



## hawkhead

http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/audio/usb/vt1731/index.jsp


----------



## drez

I think you are right it is probably the Via VT1731 - it looks like it does SPDIF input as well.  NFB-11 looks like a pretty neat little sabre DAC.


----------



## Frank Sol

Having an odd problem (?) with the blue light on my DI-DSP. The light is going off for a few seconds then back on. Sometimes it blinks off/on/off/on. All the while the signal is never interrupted, music still sound good.
   
  The Di-DSP is powered by Audio g-d's external power supply. The blue light on the P/S is working properly BTW
   
  Anyone else has or had this 'problem' ?


----------



## rictee

I experienced that exact problem a few times. As long as the unit is fully functional, I'm not bothered about it.


----------



## Pacha

Did you guys fixed your issues with the drivers or is there no news and hope about BSODs and other glitches?


----------



## hawkhead

Nope and no news - Kingwa?


----------



## icecap

I changed from Mac and have been using with PC on a fresh Win 7 ultimate with all the windows updates available, so far it has been stable on ASIO.. I am using JRiver as the player.. Tried WASAPI Event once and it crashed, nothing on WASAPI.. So I'm just gonna stick to ASIO.. oh, and the driver is the latest from Kingwa..


----------



## Frank Sol

It appears Audio g-d & Kingwa are distancing themselves from the TE8802 chip. They are moving to the USB-32 chip in newer version DACs
   
  I guess we who purchased the latest & greatest at the time TE8802 are stuck. Oh well...


----------



## kr0gg

it would be nice if Kingwa would offer a USB-32 upgrade for the latest DI-DSP to those who have purchased it!


----------



## JulioCat2

Burson audio is including a Tenor TE78802 usb audio in their coming new DAC "Conductor" so maybe new drivers are coming
   
http://bursonaudio.com/Burson_Conductor.html


----------



## Frank Sol

Quote: 





juliocat2 said:


> Burson audio is including a Tenor TE78802 usb audio in their coming new DAC "Conductor" so maybe new drivers are coming
> 
> http://bursonaudio.com/Burson_Conductor.html


 
   
   
  Interesting... They have drivers for download on their site
   
  Probably the same as Kingwa version 2 drivers but not sure


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> it would be nice if Kingwa would offer a USB-32 upgrade for the latest DI-DSP to those who have purchased it!


 
  I asked- the issue is power requirements, it needs more than what USB power can supply. He is considering it. I say offer a wall wart power supply with the upgrade kit with the understanding that the DI will not work unless it is used.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





juliocat2 said:


> Burson audio is including a Tenor TE78802 usb audio in their coming new DAC "Conductor" so maybe new drivers are coming
> 
> http://bursonaudio.com/Burson_Conductor.html


 
  Don't get your hopes up. Kingwa told me a while ago to return mine for refund because the drivers would not be fixed.
   
  Quote: 





frank sol said:


> It appears Audio g-d & Kingwa are distancing themselves from the TE8802 chip. They are moving to the USB-32 chip in newer version DACs
> 
> I guess we who purchased the latest & greatest at the time TE8802 are stuck. Oh well...


 
  TE8802 is far from the 'latest & greatest'; It is a budget solution. Even with the TCXO upgrade it is a jitter fest because of the way the chip tries to synthesize 44.1kHz and 48kHz clock multiples from a 12.000MHz crystal. Anything based on XMOS will destroy the DI-V2 in performance due to technical superiority -- largely because it uses discrete clocks for 44.1 and 48kHz multiples (22.050 and 24.576 MHz, respectively iirc) resulting in far less jitter.
   
  Kingwa should skip the TE8802 _and_ the USB-32 chip altogether and adopt XMOS for his higher end gear and the DI. One major bonus of using XMOS: the drivers have been updated over 50 times in 3 years with no end in sight (I just updated again a week ago).
   
  Quote: 





frank sol said:


> Interesting... They have drivers for download on their site
> Probably the same as Kingwa version 2 drivers but not sure


 
  They are. Based on the file timestamps the Audio-gd "v2" drivers were packed on August 8 while the Burson ones were done on June 7 and the contents of the .exe's are the same except the Audio-gd has larger icons by about 100KB.


----------



## JulioCat2

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> TE8802 is far from the 'latest & greatest'; It is a budget solution. Even with the TCXO upgrade it is a jitter fest because of the way the chip tries to synthesize 44.1kHz and 48kHz clock multiples from a 12.000MHz crystal. Anything based on XMOS will destroy the DI-V2 in performance due to technical superiority -- largely because it uses discrete clocks for 44.1 and 48kHz multiples (22.050 and 24.576 MHz, respectively iirc) resulting in far less jitter.


 
   
  Here is a cheap option with discrete clocks  http://www.ebay.com/itm/130761977032?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


----------



## Frank Sol

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> TE8802 is far from the 'latest & greatest'; It is a budget solution.


 
   
   
  I should have said so called 'latest & greatest' for that is what Kingwa pushed it as... But I'm ultimately responsible


----------



## rictee

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> I asked- the issue is power requirements, it needs more than what USB power can supply. He is considering it. I say offer a wall wart power supply with the upgrade kit with the understanding that the DI will not work unless it is used.


 
  Do you know if the DI-PSU would suffice?


----------



## tubesound

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Kingwa should skip the TE8802 _and_ the USB-32 chip altogether and adopt XMOS for his higher end gear and the DI.


 
   
  Well, when Kingwa debuted his TE8802 stuff, he claimed he compared a few USB receiver chips and found TE8802 is superior to XMOS.


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





rictee said:


> Do you know if the DI-PSU would suffice?


 
  Don't know but I would guess yes


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





tubesound said:


> Well, when Kingwa debuted his TE8802 stuff, he claimed he compared a few USB receiver chips and found TE8802 is superior to XMOS.


 
  When was this? I don't recall him ever comparing it to XMOS. He would have to be deaf not to hear the superiority of even the reference design XMOS over the TE8802.


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> When was this? I don't recall him ever comparing it to XMOS. He would have to be deaf not to hear the superiority of even the reference design XMOS over the TE8802.


 
   
   
  when did you make such a comparison?


----------



## Kingwa

We have got the demo and sign the NDA in Nov. 2011.
  They have some lot chips model but this is the best one of them.
  The demo have I2S output pins and SPDIF which is easy for the test.


----------



## macrog

Somestranger26 have you listened to the USB32? I think it is great. What makes you think the Xmos is better than the usb32?

My Master 7 sounds better via the USB32 input than my Audiophilleo 1 with external PSU or my M2Tech EVO with external clock and battery PSU.

I am hoping there will be a Master series Digital Interface based on the usb32 with I2S and AES/EBU outputs

Regards

Macrog


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





kingwa said:


> We have got the demo and sign the NDA in Nov. 2011.
> They have some lot chips model but this is the best one of them.
> The demo have I2S output pins and SPDIF which is easy for the test.


 
   

 Was the TE8802 better?
  Also, will you release a USB-32 upgrade module for those who have troubles with TE8802 Digital Interface?


----------



## FauDrei

macrog said:


> ...My Master 7 sounds better via the USB32 input than my Audiophilleo 1 with external PSU or my M2Tech EVO with external clock and battery PSU.
> I am hoping there will be a Master series Digital Interface based on the usb32 with I2S and AES/EBU outputs...


 
   
  Yes, USB32 seems pretty good (based on initial USB32 vs. audiophilleo2 comparisons on NFB-11.32).
   
  +1 for Master Digital Interface


----------



## hmouse

Quote: 





macrog said:


> Somestranger26 have you listened to the USB32? I think it is great. What makes you think the Xmos is better than the usb32?
> My Master 7 sounds better via the USB32 input than my Audiophilleo 1 with external PSU or my M2Tech EVO with external clock and battery PSU.
> I am hoping there will be a Master series Digital Interface based on the usb32 with I2S and AES/EBU outputs
> Regards
> Macrog


 
  Wow, you have the Master-7. Can you describe the sound of it? How does it compare with other DAC, e.g., Ref7.1? Great to know USB-32 is better than AP1, that's a really BIG statement.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





macrog said:


> Somestranger26 have you listened to the USB32? I think it is great. What makes you think the Xmos is better than the usb32?
> My Master 7 sounds better via the USB32 input than my Audiophilleo 1 with external PSU or my M2Tech EVO with external clock and battery PSU.
> I am hoping there will be a Master series Digital Interface based on the usb32 with I2S and AES/EBU outputs
> Regards
> Macrog


 
   
  Damn that sounds pretty impressive - so thats better than AP1 with AQVOX and no galvanic isolation (I don't like galvanic isolation before the USB input)?  
   
  That would put it ahead of XMOS reference designs such as in W4S DAC2 etc. as with some of those designs people seem to prefer using external USB transports.  Sounds promising, USB transports are good but the SPDIF-I2S conversion is only so accurate in terms of jitter performance if you check the specs, so there are potentially scenarios where built in USB-I2S like in the Master 7 etc. could bet better.


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> when did you make such a comparison?


 
  I own both and have compared. There's no point really, since my V-Link 192 is in another league.
   
  Quote: 





macrog said:


> Somestranger26 have you listened to the USB32? I think it is great. What makes you think the Xmos is better than the usb32?


 
  No, but the advantage the USB32 has is likely due to it having a direct USB-to-I2S connection internally. I'm a bit surprised that you say there's such a difference, but eliminating SPDIF from the equation is a huge advantage. Just a hunch that it's better than USB32 if you had them both connected the same way, so enjoy.


----------



## dw1narso

Quote: 





juliocat2 said:


> Here is a cheap option with discrete clocks  http://www.ebay.com/itm/130761977032?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


 
   
  Interesting!!! looking at the picture of the PCB, it has two XO (means separated 44.1KHz and 48KHz sample rate multiplier) and also has I2S connection holes for direct I2S out...


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> I own both and have compared. There's no point really, since my V-Link 192 is in another league.


 

 well, imho, the only reason to get DI is its DSP.
  as i see, you you've got a DI without it, so it's not a fair comparison.


----------



## tim3320070

I feel the DI-DSP is at least as good as the AP2 I had, then again both were only subtly better than optical out from my computer card (I have the DSP-1 in my Ref-8 though).


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> well, imho, the only reason to get DI is its DSP.
> as i see, you you've got a DI without it, so it's not a fair comparison.


 







 How is that the only reason to get it? The original DI had DSP and I never used it. Kingwa himself said it makes hardly any difference unless upsampling which is down to preference.
   
  Quote: 





dw1narso said:


> Interesting!!! looking at the picture of the PCB, it has two XO (means separated 44.1KHz and 48KHz sample rate multiplier) and also has I2S connection holes for direct I2S out...


 
  This would be MUCH better if you want to go the DIY route like attaching an I2S cable: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/188902-xmos-based-asynchronous-usb-i2s-interface.html


----------



## thebathingape

Quote: 





macrog said:


>





> I am hoping there will be a Master series Digital Interface based on the usb32 with I2S and AES/EBU outputs
> Regards
> Macrog


 
  That is what I am waiting for.


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> TE8802 is far from the 'latest & greatest'; It is a budget solution. Even with the TCXO upgrade it is a jitter fest because of the way the chip tries to synthesize 44.1kHz and 48kHz clock multiples from a 12.000MHz crystal. Anything based on XMOS will destroy the DI-V2 in performance due to technical superiority -- largely because it uses discrete clocks for 44.1 and 48kHz multiples (22.050 and 24.576 MHz, respectively iirc) resulting in far less jitter.


 
   
  Has someone posted actual measurements or some kind of genuine technical data to confirm this? Or is this statement just based off things you've read on the web? I have the Calyx DAC here, which uses an XMOS chip and, to be honest, it isn't as good as all the reviews have said it is. If I can find a firmware update, I'll try and see if it improves at all.
   
  Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Do you think it is appropriate to suggest someone is deaf in this way? I don't. Making a legitimate query, such as _"I don't understand why Kingwa doesn't use an XMOS chips over the Tenor."_ is reasonable. I was actually going to email him the same suggestion about the XMOS chip, but, from experience realised that he has probably already tried it and that he always has good reasons for the choices he makes.
   
  Quote: 





hmouse said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  As macrog is an audio dealer, he isn't permitted to post subjective impressions of products he sells. If you search the forums for the Reference 7, you'll find a thread that includes discussion of the Master 7 at the end, including comparisons.


----------



## Kingwa

Quote: 





thebathingape said:


> That is what I am waiting for.


 
  We may not design the DI with the USB32 + DSP.
  But I think do the upgrade for the users in later,  maybe that will need shipping back for the upgrade.


----------



## Frank Sol

FWIW--   I installed openSUSE 12.2 (kernel 3.4) alongside win7 on my EeePc today. TE8802 was recognized and all I had to do was change the system audio out. Banshee played 16/44 files without a problem cannot say the same for 24/192.


----------



## johangrb

Quote: 





kingwa said:


> We may not design the DI with the USB32 + DSP.
> But I think do the upgrade for the users in later,  maybe that will need shipping back for the upgrade.


 
  I for one, will have no problem shipping back my DI-DSP (Te8802) for a swap out to USB32. Thanks for considering this Kingwa - let us know if/when you're ready.


----------



## Gamerzhell

Quote: 





johangrb said:


> I for one, will have no problem shipping back my DI-DSP (Te8802) for a swap out to USB32. Thanks for considering this Kingwa - let us know if/when you're ready.


 
  Same here, hopefully I won't have to send the PSU back too.


----------



## tubesound

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> When was this? I don't recall him ever comparing it to XMOS. He would have to be deaf not to hear the superiority of even the reference design XMOS over the TE8802.


 
  I remember he made such a comment in his forum on his website (The forum is only in Chinese). It seems he deleted the original DI-DSP discussion thread. As a result, I couldn't provide a link to you to justify my statement. Anyway, another Chinese audio designer Yulong also chose TE8802 over XMOS (not sure whether it's due to cost reason or sonic reason).
   
  I upgraded my USB input chip from TE7022 to TE8802 on the DAC19-DSP and soon I'll be comparing my DAC with a XMOS based DAC ...


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





tubesound said:


> I remember he made such a comment in his forum on his website (The forum is only in Chinese). It seems he deleted the original DI-DSP discussion thread. As a result, I couldn't provide a link to you to justify my statement. Anyway, another Chinese audio designer Yulong also chose TE8802 over XMOS (not sure whether it's due to cost reason or sonic reason).
> 
> I upgraded my USB input chip from TE7022 to TE8802 on the DAC19-DSP and soon I'll be comparing my DAC with a XMOS based DAC ...


 
   
  I'd really like to hear your impressions!


----------



## preproman

*****Feature Request*****​  ​  ​ Could the next DI have an AES \ EBU output as well?  All of Audio-GDs high end DACs has this input.


----------



## Pacha

Quote: 





tubesound said:


> I upgraded my USB input chip from TE7022 to TE8802 on the DAC19-DSP and soon I'll be comparing my DAC with a XMOS based DAC ...


 
   
   
  Looking forward to reading your review about that.
   
  I wonder if the DAC19-DSP would do better with direct input into TE8802 rather than using the old DI + PSU, did you try comparing something of the sort BTW?


----------



## tubesound

Quote: 





pacha said:


> Looking forward to reading your review about that.
> 
> I wonder if the DAC19-DSP would do better with direct input into TE8802 rather than using the old DI + PSU, did you try comparing something of the sort BTW?


 
  In theory TE8802 I2S to DAC chip should be superior as it has a shorter signal path. I sold my V-Link a while ago and don't have another USB to SPDIF converter on hand right now. But the XMOS DAC can be used as a USB to Coaxial converter and so I can compare that way as well in a week or two.


----------



## tink97

I have a question, is anyone using the DI with the Te8802 chip or USB 32 chip with an iMAc?  I am considering getting one but just wanted to get some feedback from mac users.  Thank you
   
  TInk97


----------



## DarknightDK

Quote: 





tink97 said:


> I have a question, is anyone using the DI with the Te8802 chip or USB 32 chip with an iMAc?  I am considering getting one but just wanted to get some feedback from mac users.  Thank you
> 
> TInk97


 
   
  Im using my DI-DSP (TE 8802) with my iMac and have not encountered any problems at all. Everything works flawlessly and no driver installation is required. Just plug and play.


----------



## JulioCat2

Quote: 





darknightdk said:


> Im using my DI-DSP (TE 8802) with my iMac and have not encountered any problems at all. Everything works flawlessly and no driver installation is required. Just plug and play.


 
   
  Hello DK
   
  Have you checked the DI-DSP with Audirvana to see if it's Integer Mode Compatible??


----------



## Frank Sol

Quote: 





darknightdk said:


> Im using my DI-DSP (TE 8802) with my iMac and have not encountered any problems at all. Everything works flawlessly and no driver installation is required. Just plug and play.


 
   
   
  To reiterate... The TE8802 used with my Squeeze Box Touch (Linux) with the USB+192 software update has worked great and without error for 3 weeks


----------



## Bojamijams

Well I tried the new 1.1 drivers on my PC (stupid me, 1.0 was working fine) but then it gave me issues saying the USB Device failed... so I uninstall, restart, install 1.0, restart and now.. the same thing... so now neither verison works for me anymore
   
  GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
   
  What do I do now?


----------



## FauDrei

Try different USB cable. I suppose you already tried different USB port.


----------



## Bojamijams

Got it working by re-installing v1.0 without the device plugged in (though that shouldn't make a different in Win7 but here we are)
   
  Phew that was scary.
   
  Has it been mentioned that the USB drivers suck? because it bears repeating


----------



## Sab666

They do indeed suck big time! I been having major issues with the TE8802 driver with my Reference 10.2, windows keeps crashing all the time! Luckily the USB receiver isn't integrated into the main board on the Ref 10.2 so I will get my unit upgraded to the USB 32 receiver module tomorrow. Hopefully it fixes the crashing and improves on the sound.


----------



## drez

Now Burson as well as  Yulong are both adopting the TE8802, good luck to them.


----------



## kr0gg

not only 
 there's also that Nuforce DAC


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





drez said:


> Now Burson as well as  Yulong are both adopting the TE8802, good luck to them.


 
  sounds like they aren't doing any consumer research


----------



## Sab666

Hey we're all wrong, we should just sell all our equipment. Reddit expert electronic engineers know best: LINK
   
  Edit: Feel free to lock and load and send back up !


----------



## HaVoC-28

Quote: 





sab666 said:


> Hey we're all wrong, we should just sell all our equipment. Reddit expert electronic engineers know best: LINK
> 
> Edit: Feel free to lock and load and send back up !


 
   
  No , not all just keep your headphone


----------



## EndersShadow

Hey fella's just hopping in here to ask a quick question.
   
  Right now I have a NFB-5 and have it connected to my computer via USB.  Its got the older TE7022 chip and I see there is a TE8022 upgrade availible, but it seems some of you guys are having problems with that chip.
   
  Should I keep the TE7022 chip I have, go to the TE8022 upgrade or wait for whats next?


----------



## HaVoC-28

Quote: 





endersshadow said:


> Hey fella's just hopping in here to ask a quick question.
> 
> Right now I have a NFB-5 and have it connected to my computer via USB.  Its got the older TE7022 chip and I see there is a TE8022 upgrade availible, but it seems some of you guys are having problems with that chip.
> 
> Should I keep the TE7022 chip I have, go to the TE8022 upgrade or wait for whats next?


 
   
  Well are you unhappy with your TE7022L chip , does it sound bad  ? furthemore It don't need any kind of custom drivers wich is not so bad .
   TE8802 is reported to have some driver problem but hard to say if it's massive or just a little minority .
  On the other hand Audio GD switched to "USB32" wich seam a bit more mature for drivers , USB32 kits should be avaliable when they will think that USB32 drivers are definitively OK . 
   
  If you can't wait  ask for TE8022 upgrade bord otherwise wait then for "USB32" upgrade board be ready to ship .


----------



## EndersShadow

Quote: 





havoc-28 said:


> Well are you unhappy with your TE7022L chip , does it sound bad  ? furthemore It don't need any kind of custom drivers wich is not so bad .
> TE8802 is reported to have some driver problem but hard to say if it's massive or just a little minority .
> On the other hand Audio GD switched to "USB32" wich seam a bit more mature for drivers , USB32 kits should be avaliable when they will think that USB32 drivers are definitively OK .
> 
> If you can't wait  ask for TE8022 upgrade bord otherwise wait then for "USB32" upgrade board be ready to ship .


 

 I am by no means unhappy with the TE7022L chip I just know its not async as the TE8022 is.  I am fine waiting till the USB32 chip is up running and proven to work as I dont plan on installing it myself so I would need to ship it to Kingwa to do (I think they will do installs).  Just wanted to make sure I wasnt missing something super awesome in the TE8022 that was worth upgrading for.


----------



## Gangstel

Someone compared Audio GD DI-DSP with Hiface Two?


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





gangstel said:


> Someone compared Audio GD DI-DSP with Hiface Two?


 
  Considering there are 233 pages of mostly complaints about this Audio gd interface this is a very sane request. I own the Hiface Two and it never fails to work exactly as it should. The software works properly and the Hiface Two does it's job every time without errors. I can't find a single thing wrong with it or anything about it that I would change (and it is cheap). The original Hiface had some problems but this new version is flawless.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





chodi said:


> Considering there are 233 pages of mostly complaints about this Audio gd interface this is a very sane request. I own the Hiface Two and it never fails to work exactly as it should. The software works properly and the Hiface Two does it's job every time without errors. I can't find a single thing wrong with it or anything about it that I would change (and it is cheap). The original Hiface had some problems but this new version is flawless.


 
   
   
  I don't think 233 pages of 'mostly complaints' is a fair statement to make. The only complaints came along due to the tenor chip. Before that everyone loved their DI, and only a small portion are having issues with the tenor chip.


----------



## arnaud

I must have been lucky, di-dsp has worked from day 1 from 44.1 all the way to 192. Using audirvana plus atm, integer mode, and it sounds awesome. Latest version of osx, mcb is 18 months old about. Only hiccups I have noticed is when running windows 7 using parallels, the signal may drop after a while (not sure if it comes from the hardware or instead from audirvana) and it dropped once yesterday when I was using aperture in full screen doing also some photo post processing (aperture uses multiple threads so it may have got the machine too busy). Also, I am using the original driver, haven't bothered with the latest one because it's been working so far.


----------



## hawkhead

Please produce the figures to back up that statement
   
  e.g. Number sold and number of issues
   
   
  Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> and only a small portion are having issues with the tenor chip.


----------



## tme110

Judging by posts and the few people who have issues, I also believe to the people with issues to be very small.  I haven't seen any proof that many people at all have had issues, but the people who have have been very vocal.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





hawkhead said:


> Please produce the figures to back up that statement
> 
> e.g. Number sold and number of issues


 
   
  I obviously don't have exact figures, but you read through the thread (like I did) you'll see most people are saying that it works for them just fine. There's a number of people having problems and they have a conversation so it appears like more. I'm personally not have any trouble with it, and have hooked it up to 4 different computers and had 0 issues.


----------



## grokit

I thought the issues were with the Windows drivers, not the Tenor chip itself.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I thought the issues were with the Windows drivers, not the Tenor chip itself.


 
   
  It is with the drivers, and Tenor hasn't made a solution. For some reason some people can't get the drivers to work with their machines.


----------



## kLevkoff

Quote: 





hawkhead said:


> How hard can it be to test 192 playback via WASAPI - does anyone have that working ?


 
   
  To answer your FIRST question.....
   
  Windows 7 (and WASAPI) are very.... variable.... in how well they work. I have several assorted DACs, and how well Windows 7 works at high sample rates varies widely between them.
   
  Some DACs simply don't work well at high bit rates on certain machines. I'm NOT talking about under-powered machines here.
  What I'm talking about is a quad core 2.5 gHz Dell with plenty of memory and Windows 7 - 64 (and nothing else interesting running, and CPU utilization about 15%).
  With one DAC it has no problem at 192/24; with another DAC (different DAC, different driver) it won't run for ten seconds without a dropout.
  On a different, but quite similar, machine the "problem DAC" works fine.
   
  My point is that there are a lot of variables.... unless you want to spend your entire life trying to sort them out, find a mode that works well and use it.
  Try the DAC on at least one different machine - in a different mode.
  Unless it misbehaves consistently, then it's probably an O/S or compatibility issue.
   
   
  [Even more annoying, Windows XP doesn't seem to have nearly as many problems.]


----------



## kLevkoff

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> When was this? I don't recall him ever comparing it to XMOS. He would have to be deaf not to hear the superiority of even the reference design XMOS over the TE8802.


 
   
  You really need to put the relative importance of the chip and the implementation into proper perspective. A good implementation of even a poor chip can often sound better than a poor implementation of a good chip. In something like a DAC, the chip used (whether the DAC or the S/PDIF transceiver) is about 10% of the sound, and the rest is the design of the circuitry around it.
  In many cases, a chip that is really good (in terms of maximum capabilities) may be very difficult to design around, and so, even though the chip is excellent, the majority of designs taht use it turn out poor. In contrast, a chip whose top performance is mediocre, but which works well in a wider variety of implementations, and is "easier to design around", may end up sounding better more of the time. Endless discussions about "which chip sound better" serve no purpose.... and assuming that anything with a given chip will sound good is a dangerous thing. (Name a "wonderful chip" and, somewhere out there, there's a product that uses it and sounds like crap. I'll bet someone can find something with a TE8802 in it that sounds worlds better than something else with a XMOS chip in it  )
   
  It's much more productive to discuss how KingWa's implementation of one (the board you get to buy) compares to his implementation of another.


----------



## kLevkoff

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> Don't get your hopes up. Kingwa told me a while ago to return mine for refund because the drivers would not be fixed.
> 
> TE8802 is far from the 'latest & greatest'; It is a budget solution. Even with the TCXO upgrade it is a jitter fest because of the way the chip tries to synthesize 44.1kHz and 48kHz clock multiples from a 12.000MHz crystal. Anything based on XMOS will destroy the DI-V2 in performance due to technical superiority -- largely because it uses discrete clocks for 44.1 and 48kHz multiples (22.050 and 24.576 MHz, respectively iirc) resulting in far less jitter.
> 
> ...


 
   
  One must be careful not to oversimplify....
   
  ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL, a solution that uses separate clocks will have less jitter.... however, the quality of those clocks matters a great deal.
  A single-clock setup (with a very good clock) COULD perform better than one with two poor quality clocks - one shouldn't assume.
   
  Likewise, the DI uses a sample rate converter, which removes jitter from the signal.
  (How well it does this depends on the DSP and its clocks and programming...)
  Therefore, having moderate jitter on the INPUT probably really doesn't matter
  since it will be removed along the way anyway. The jitter on the output clock, and the transmitter matter a lot.
  The jitter on certain of the DSP clocks is also probably critical (which ones will depend on the DSP and its programming).
   
  If you have it set to up-sample everything to 96k, then only the output clock that clocks THAT rate matters
  (it doesn't mater if the derived-clocks for the rates you aren't using are especially jitter free or not).
   
  Presumably KingWa is pretty good at knowing what matters and what doesn't....
  (if not, then we shouldn't be buying his stuff  )
  You shouldn't second-guess him without all the facts....


----------



## kLevkoff

Quote: 





somestranger26 said:


> I have tried my motherboard USB ports, ports off of an NEC USB 3 chip, and off of another NEC USB 2 PCI add in card... it has nothing to do with the USB ports. It might have something to do with the motherboard, but I still cannot imagine why this is the only device of its kind with these issues. The latency is fine on my desktop (which BSODs) but is completely game-breaking on my laptop (which works) since it causes movies to skip, severe frame rate drop in games, etc..


 

 I have to chime in here.....
   
  This is FAR from "the only device with these issues". I have several DACs, and several computers, and each DAC works better or worse with certain drivers and in certain modes on certain computers. Certain DACs (and similar devices) working poorly with certain drivers on certain computers - especially at high sample rates - IS the norm and not the exception.
  Windows simply was NOT designed to provide the priority necessary to guarantee good performance with audio at anything above 44.1k .
  Priority jumps (which can cause dropouts) can be caused by all sorts of things from low memory to a conflict with a WiFi card....
  (And I wouldn't bet on Macs being much better, expect that, since they have limited options in general, the possibilities are more limited.)
   
  Drivers CAN slow down machines, and can obviously conflict with other drivers.... and it may not be possible to assign blame.
  (I know plenty of laptops that have severe frame drop problems and DON'T run KingWa's drivers  )
   
  I've been in the computer biz a lot of years, and I can assure that there isn't a device or driver in the world that SOME folks somewhere
  aren't having trouble with..... unfortunately, audio is far more critical, and so such problems become more obvious and critical to fix


----------



## somestranger26

Quote: 





klevkoff said:


> This is FAR from "the only device with these issues". I have several DACs, and several computers, and each DAC works better or worse with certain drivers and in certain modes on certain computers. Certain DACs (and similar devices) working poorly with certain drivers on certain computers - especially at high sample rates - IS the norm and not the exception.


 
  Oh sorry I did not realize that blue screens of death were normal with USB audio, in every output format.
   
  Quote: 





klevkoff said:


> Priority jumps (which can cause dropouts) can be caused by all sorts of things from low memory to a conflict with a WiFi card....  (And I wouldn't bet on Macs being much better, expect that, since they have limited options in general, the possibilities are more limited.)
> 
> Drivers CAN slow down machines, and can obviously conflict with other drivers.... and it may not be possible to assign blame.
> (I know plenty of laptops that have severe frame drop problems and DON'T run KingWa's drivers  )


 
  The TE8802 drivers have static 3500us DPC latency. There's really no excuse, especially when it negatively affects performance in games and HD movies. XMOS does up to 24/192 without issue and an order of magnitude less DPC latency (300us).
   
  Quote: 





klevkoff said:


> In many cases, a chip that is really good (in terms of maximum capabilities) may be very difficult to design around, and so, even though the chip is excellent, the majority of designs taht use it turn out poor. In contrast, a chip whose top performance is mediocre, but which works well in a wider variety of implementations, and is "easier to design around", may end up sounding better more of the time. Endless discussions about "which chip sound better" serve no purpose.... and assuming that anything with a given chip will sound good is a dangerous thing. (Name a "wonderful chip" and, somewhere out there, there's a product that uses it and sounds like crap. I'll bet someone can find something with a TE8802 in it that sounds worlds better than something else with a XMOS chip in it  )
> It's much more productive to discuss how KingWa's implementation of one (the board you get to buy) compares to his implementation of another.


 
  Digital chips are to analog chips as apples are to oranges. The 10% thing does not apply here. Besides, none of these USB chips are difficult to design around and their implementations differ very little except in the power supply and clocking.


----------



## hawkhead

The DIDSP is the only USB device that has ever caused trouble
   
  Latency is very high
   
  Static can be reproduced at will
   
  It will not play 192 through WASAPI
   
  I have had a Hiface, the original DI (which I have gone back to) and several USB DAC's without issues.


----------



## fourwed

I am very excited now.....there comes the SOUND!!!!
   
  I hope you know what is Raspberry pi. For those don't know, it is a very inexpensive linux computer for $25.
   
http://www.raspberrypi.org/
   
  I was very excited by its introduction and ordered one almost immediately. I thought it is a very cool piece of hardware and perhaps I might able to use it for a music player. *I DID IT TODAY!!!*
   
  Since delivery, I have no time to play with it, especially Linux is not my language. After a few days of trying, I am finally able to play mp3 from it.The playback is not perfect, with a few crack sound, but I am surely it could be improved through time.
   
  My next target is to install Music Player Daemon. It is known as one of the best CAS player and I will do some A-B test by then.


----------



## kr0gg

you mean that you could install te8802 drivers in Raspberry?


----------



## fourwed

I mean you don't have to install any driver!!


----------



## FauDrei

Perhaps openELEC can help you a little if linux is not your language... and you are willing to experiment.


----------



## kr0gg

without the driver TE8802 functions in adaptive (not asynchronous) mode


----------



## tim3320070

Does that mean poorer sound quality?


----------



## kr0gg

yep.
  it doesn't mean that without drivers it sounds bad, it's just that with them the sound has more clarity and wider soundstage.


----------



## elwappo99

Running windows 7 with the tenor chip my computer would not wake up from sleep at all. Used the latest drivers and older drivers. Anyone help with this so I don't have to manually unplug it each time?


----------



## rakisan

I received my DI last March so it was previous version DSP-3 usb input only and had not use until now.
  Hooking it to my laptop windows 7,  I get the message "One of the USB devices attached to this computer has malfunctioned and windows does not recognise it. Same message in all three ports. So attaching the digital cable from DI to a AD1865 DAC input, makes no music and the led indicating digital input received on DAC does not go on.
  Do you think my DI is faulty or do I need to do something myself


----------



## Bojamijams

Which version of the driver did you install? (and you should install it before you plug it in)


----------



## rakisan

Actually did not install any driver.
  I thought a driver was needed for the newer version.
  Anyway, which one should I install?


----------



## Bojamijams

On this page http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/TE8802/TE8802EN.htm
   
  Download Version 1.0
   
  Make sure your DI is unplugged during the install. After the driver installs, restart computer and THEN plug in the DI


----------



## rakisan

Thank you, I had no idea


----------



## Kingwa

This DI should be built in TE7022.
  If power supply by the USB port from the computer, the USB cable must have enough strong for transfer the power to the DI .
  So there is have not driver install necessary, and can try the good quality printer USB cable .


----------



## Tom W

Does anyone in the US or Canada have an Audio GD TXCO (24.576MHz) Upgrade Clock that they would be willing to part with?
   
http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USBface/Clock.htm


----------



## dacavalcante

Guys I just saw all versions from the digital interface were discontinued....
  Does it means a new product with USB32 is coming ? Or no more Sources devices from Audio-GD ?


----------



## tim3320070

Ask Kingwa this


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> Ask Kingwa this


 

 Maybe he comes here to answer himself if he sees it...


----------



## dacavalcante

Yepz Guys!!!  Heard from the man himself!
  Kingwa told me the DI V3 with USB32 is ready and that it's so low jitter that a DSP won't be needed at all....
   
  They are to lunch it next week and the website will be updated!


----------



## rdsu

Excellent news!  

Hope it still has coaxial as input...


----------



## EduxTM

Excellent news. It would be great if DI-DSP / DI-V2 users could be upgraded to USB32 too.


----------



## kr0gg

That's bad news actually.
  That means that Kingwa doesn't care about his customers and there will be no fixing for TE8802 problems.
  And yes, Kingwa says that it can't be upgraded to usb32.
  After using Audio-gd gear for some years (had their Compass, FUN, nfb-11, DAC19, DI-1, DI-DSP) i guess it's time to say "goodbye" to them.
  This is not a good attitude towards customers at all.


----------



## drez

You have to look at it from Kingwa's perspective though, nobody knows how/if/when decent drivers could be obtained from tenor as we were not handling the situation. Im sure Kingwa did not make the decision lightly. Other manufacturers are starting to use the new tenor usb so maybe if they all pressure tenor they will look into their drivers, or maybe many more people will have the frustration of compatibility issues with the new tenor usb chip.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> That's bad news actually.
> That means that Kingwa doesn't care about his customers and there will be no fixing for TE8802 problems.
> And yes, Kingwa says that it can't be upgraded to usb32.
> After using Audio-gd gear for some years (had their Compass, FUN, nfb-11, DAC19, DI-1, DI-DSP) i guess it's time to say "goodbye" to them.
> This is not a good attitude towards customers at all.


 
   
   
   
  Quote: 





drez said:


> You have to look at it from Kingwa's perspective though, nobody knows how/if/when decent drivers could be obtained from tenor as we were not handling the situation. Im sure Kingwa did not make the decision lightly. Other manufacturers are starting to use the new tenor usb so maybe if they all pressure tenor they will look into their drivers, or maybe many more people will have the frustration of compatibility issues with the new tenor usb chip.


 
   
   
  That's definitely true from Kingwa's position... but what if a major manufacturer put out a laptop that didn't quite work and then "promised" a fix later. A few months later, they decide that piece of hardware doesn't work and they no longer work towards a solution. The customer gets stiffed pretty badly on this one.


----------



## Kingwa

We applied TE8802 or give up TE8802, TENOR still working on the driver and ignor if we still applied.
  They only replied us until March 2013, they won't release any driver.
  They tell us the new driver will release at March 2013 .


----------



## Baxide

The TE8802 is also used in the TEAC DAC. The TE8802 does work, but not all functions are currently available with the existing drivers. It is not uncommon in the computer industry that updated drivers are released at a far later date that add extra functionality. PC users familiar with the Windows OS are very much aware of that. It hasn't stopped anyone that I know of from buying a PC and installing updated drivers even years later. So the comments about the TE8802 used in that case are really short sighted.


----------



## kr0gg

you wouldn't buy a videocard which turns off and reboots your computer a few times every hour.
  Years, you say? 2, 3, etc??
   
  I don't know who on Earth would live with such a videocard even for a month. The problem for end-users is that shipping to China and back costs a lot.
  IMO, that is a clear reason for a total product recall or at least a massive discount on the new bug-free version of the product.


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> you wouldn't buy a videocard which turns off and reboots your computer a few times every hour.
> Years, you say? 2, 3, etc??
> 
> I don't know who on Earth would live with such a videocard even for a month. The problem for end-users is that shipping to China and back costs a lot.
> IMO, that is a clear reason for a total product recall or at least a massive discount on the new bug-free version of the product.


 
  Who said this won't be the case?
   
  Tenor is to blame first. Did any Burson users complain about the TE8802 in the Conductor so far?


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> you wouldn't buy a videocard which turns off and reboots your computer a few times every hour.


 
   
  I wouldn't buy a PC and even risk having to deal with that (I've had a vanilla Windows install crap itself after installing the latest drivers from a video card manufacturer). That is why I own a Mac (and an XBox for gaming).


----------



## seaice

DI V3 is officially out - based on the USB-32 as expected: http://audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/DIv3/DIv3EN.htm


----------



## tim3320070

I have had an early version of this for a couple of months. It is pretty solid, no crashes or hiccups like the TE8022 (although I never had issues with my main rig, only the NFB-16/TE8022 with my older Vista laptop). If I had to say there was an improvement, it would be a blacker background and an overall very clean sound. I feel like there is less of a digital sound to things vs the TE8022 DI (upsampled in particular). All subtle of course.
   
  Not sure why people are spending hundreds+ on converters- zero noise, zero artifacts to my ears for $128 is a no brainer.


----------



## Bojamijams

An upgrade plan for DI-DSP users would be nice


----------



## kr0gg

i don't quite get the point of having a coax-in on the new one since they don't have DSP and i guess it was exactly the DSP that provided the de-jittering
  i guess they also don't have upsampling, right?


----------



## hawkhead

Quote: 





bojamijams said:


> An upgrade plan for DI-DSP users would be nice


 

 Return your DI V2


----------



## DarknightDK

The new DI V3 is up for order! 

I wonder how it compares to the DI-DSP previously released. Anyone order one yet?


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Judging from the pictures, I think the new DI-V3 is a modified version of DI-V2 with the USB-32 module soldered onto the earlier DI-V2. I did ask once if it was possible to modify the DI-DSP with the USB-32 chip bypassing the onboard TE8022 so that I can have the upsampling and de-jitter function. Kingwa said it is possible and it is done by soldering the module on the pre-existing board.
   
  I'm tempted to order the DI-V3S. I don't need the coaxial input. Kingwa said as current DI's uses the USB32 it has the lowest jitter and the most neutral among the DI versions.
   
  Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> i don't quite get the point of having a coax-in on the new one since they don't have DSP and i guess it was exactly the DSP that provided the de-jittering
> i guess they also don't have upsampling, right?


 
  I asked Kingwa about this. Here's his reply:
   
  "The DI-V3 can reduce jitter for middle and low range source connect coaxial input , but without upsampling ability .
 The DI-DSP based on USB32 have upsampling , but without I2S output socket ."


----------



## rdsu

Hi,
   
  I have a DAC that is a bit better than DACMagic, and its inputs are Toslink/SPDIF 24bit/192kHz and USB 16bit/48kHz(not asynchronous).
   
  I'm building a HTPC, similar to Computer Audiophile Pocket Server C.A.P.S. v3 Topanga, and want to use the USB port for audio output.
   
  Do you think Audio-gd DI-V3 will be a noticeable improvement, connecting trough SPDIF to my DAC?
   
  I'm also thinking of using it to connect my Blu-ray player and improve its sound...
   
  Thanks


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





rdsu said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have a DAC that is a bit better than DACMagic, and its inputs are Toslink/SPDIF 24bit/192kHz and USB 16bit/48kHz(not asynchronous).
> 
> ...


 
  Yes but subtle- probably get more difference with a DSP version if Kingwa will make it for you. I use my old DI-DSP to upsample an old Pioneer CD changer from 15 years ago and it makes a nice improvement in separation of sounds, with a more 3D effect- again, it's subtle if I haven't  mentioned that enough.


----------



## rdsu

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> Yes but subtle- probably get more difference with a DSP version if Kingwa will make it for you. I use my old DI-DSP to upsample an old Pioneer CD changer from 15 years ago and it makes a nice improvement in separation of sounds, with a more 3D effect- again, it's subtle if I haven't  mentioned that enough.


 

 Now I can't buy a better DAC, so this seems to be the best option.
   
  The DSP version is not an option for me, because I prefer bit-perfect...
   
  Thanks


----------



## rdsu

Do you know the RMS Jitter of this new version?


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





rdsu said:


> Now I can't buy a better DAC, so this seems to be the best option.
> 
> The DSP version is not an option for me, because I prefer bit-perfect...
> 
> Thanks


 
  You prefer something you have not heard?


----------



## rdsu

No, I prefer the original source, not what someone though that should be...


----------



## Gamerzhell

Quote: 





rdsu said:


> No, I prefer the original source, not what someone though that should be...


 
   
  Then you would only ever attend concerts and recording sessions or play your own instrument?


----------



## rdsu

Quote: 





gamerzhell said:


> Then you would only ever attend concerts and recording sessions or play your own instrument?


 
  I know what you mean, but that is an incorrect analogy 
   
  One thing is deliberately change the original source, like up-sampling, another thing is that everyone has different ears and ways to interpret what they listen... 
  On Head-Fi/Hi-Fi the main objective is to reproduce the source has best as possible, taking in count that every brand have their signature because is physically impossible to achieve the live(only instruments)/perfect sound, but they don't change the source.


----------



## tim3320070

Upsampling via the DSP-1/3 only improves air/3D and instrument/ vocal positioning and reduce jitter, it doesn't alter like sound like you're thinking. It's not Dolby headphone, etc. Think of it as a filter, not a processor (even though it is).


----------



## rdsu

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> Upsampling via the DSP-1/3 only improves air/3D and instrument/ vocal positioning and reduce jitter, it doesn't alter like sound like you're thinking. It's not Dolby headphone, etc. Think of it as a filter, not a processor (even though it is).


 
  I understand that, but has you said, that is not the original.
   
  A good/balanced system doesn't need filters, equalizers, etc.
   
  But I'm perfectly fine with those who want to use up-sampling, filters, etc.
  This is just my opinion about what approach we should have to achieve the best sound... 
   
  You doesn't know the RMS jitter of this version, just to have a reference (doesn't mean that is best or worse)? How this is comparable to Yulong U18?


----------



## tim3320070

All I can say is it sounds better to me using the DSP upsampling from my direct experience and testing- you should try it before dismissing it.


----------



## Somnambulist

I take it the v3 will 'just work' with the USB output of the Squeezebox Touch using the EDO app? Looking for something to go between SBT w/EDO and my NAD M51...


----------



## preproman

Why no AES/EBU output?
   
  Also this seems to be the closest competition around the same price range with no issues reported thus far. (I know of 1.)
   
  It uses the TE8802L chip
   
  This has AES/EBU and I2S standard.   
   
  Would like to see a comparison if possible.
   
  http://shop.grantfidelity.com/Yulong-U18-Asynchronous-24-192-USB-Digital-Interface.html


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

I received my DI-V3s yesterday. In the package were the spare firmware, an LED which I supposed is for changing to a less brighter one than the one installed on the DI-V3s, along some resistors to modify the DI-V1 PSU to power-up the DI-V3s. 
   
  Initial impressions are the DI-V3s sounded much clearer and detailed than the DI-VI, and it's noticeable I no longer have problems with the occasional 'ticks" usually heard from the DI-VI which indicated drop-outs. So far, there's no issue of any drop-outs or glitches with audio even when the PC is under heavy load from doing other things. Sonically, it's sounded just a little warm and transients slightly blurred but it is still very early yet as it has not been burn-in fully. I might upgrade to a Tentlabs XO later since I had great results from one used in the earlier DI-V1. Right now, it is just using stock.
   
  Will update later when it's fully burned in.


----------



## kr0gg

do you have a te8802 based DI (di-v2) to compare DI-v3 to it?
  also, does your DI-v3 have upsampling function?


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Why no AES/EBU output?


 
   
  He is using the VIA USB32 chipset now, not the Tenor and that has I2S output. AES/EBU would be dependent on the quality of the transformers for the quality of the transmission AFAIK.


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> do you have a te8802 based DI (di-v2) to compare DI-v3 to it?
> also, does your DI-v3 have upsampling function?


 
  No, I don't. Only the DI-V1. The DI-V3 doesn't have any upsampling function. Kingwa mentioned that since the jitter is so low, he felt a DSP3 isn't needed to reclock. 

 I did however, ask if it was possible if the USB32 be incorporated into the DI-DSP since I really like a DI-DSP with USB32 with upsampling and Jitter reclocker for other devices. He said it is possible as a special order. I might do that at a later date since I really like the DI-V3s now.


----------



## colour97

Quote: 





rhythmic_impulse said:


> I received my DI-V3s yesterday. In the package were the spare firmware, an LED which I supposed is for changing to a less brighter one than the one installed on the DI-V3s, along some resistors to modify the DI-V1 PSU to power-up the DI-V3s.
> 
> Initial impressions are the DI-V3s sounded much clearer and detailed than the DI-VI, and it's noticeable I no longer have problems with the occasional 'ticks" usually heard from the DI-VI which indicated drop-outs. So far, there's no issue of any drop-outs or glitches with audio even when the PC is under heavy load from doing other things. Sonically, it's sounded just a little warm and transients slightly blurred but it is still very early yet as it has not been burn-in fully. I might upgrade to a Tentlabs XO later since I had great results from one used in the earlier DI-V1. Right now, it is just using stock.
> 
> Will update later when it's fully burned in.


 
  just got mine usb-power yesterday, i second your impression. and easy to blow away logitech touch.
  no annoying drop out issue


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Just a short update. It's been 150 hours of burn-in. Pretty much left it power-up since earlier listening when I first got it. After that I switched back to the SPDIF feed from my Juli@ card. I switched over to the DI-V3s just now just to get an impression of the sonics and if there's any changes to the inital sonic impression I posted earlier. 
   
  The DI-V3s seem to have opened out and no longer feels that warm. Listening to the same piece of music, it appears that transients are more apparent, and there's a fuller body to the sound. And soundstage have improved, sound wider and deeper. 
   
  Will post again when it's past 300 hours. I'm considering getting an XO upgrade.


----------



## rdsu

Great! Keep us updated...


----------



## spacejay

Hello
   
  I am using Windows XP Service pack2.
   
  Apologies for being a pleb but I have a question for you.  I have just taken delivery of a DI V3.  Most of my files are flac which I play through cplay.  I have managed to get this working (although it has just lost a connection and found it again on restarting).  Anyway my question relates to foobar2000.  I have installed the drivers that are on the audio gd site but I can only get any sound out via ds:audio gd. showing up on the output I have asio4all and ks:audio gd and i have also installed foo_out ks in the components section but this does not show up in foobar output   
   
  I know foobar is supposed to be simple and I can usually figure it out by playing around with it but I am stumped this time.  Any ideas as to how I can get KS working? 
   
  Thanks.
   
   
  Edit : I have just played about with the buffer settings on Asio and it works now.  Would still welcome advice on the bestt settings though.


----------



## seaice

Have you tried wasapi?
   
  http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_out_wasapi
  
  oops, sorry, wasapi is not for you, you have Windows XP....


----------



## Frank Sol

Sorry to say but I believe Windows XP will be problematic for you...


----------



## spacejay

Quote: 





frank sol said:


> Sorry to say but I believe Windows XP will be problematic for you...


 
  nope,  got it working


----------



## Frank Sol

Quote: 





spacejay said:


> nope,  got it working


 
   
  I'm happy for you!


----------



## rdsu

@rhythmic_impulse,
   
  Do you have more news about the new DI?


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

My apologies to all who may have been waiting for my update. Been really busy on a shoot so hardly had time to have a propere listening session. Originally intended to give an impression of the DI-V3s against the DI-V1 in the DAC19DSP (with the PMD-100 mod as well as the DSP-1) and FUN.
   
  Here's a quick note:
   
  Details are much clearer. Low level details and especially ambiance of the recording are much in evidence. The DI-V1, even with the Tentlabs clock upgrade, is like heavy blanket covering the sonic perspective. The DI-V3s is like an open window. 

 The initial warmth-like nature of the DI-V3 seems to have opened up. It's sound more neutral now. 
   
  Instrumental timbres definitely have better body and textures. I can hear the cymbals as real cymbals, with a metallic body and a slight overhang in the air of the crash (for want of a better description). Piano and violin sound fantastic.  
   
  I am using it with the DI-V1 PSU but powering through a Wireworld Starlight seems to seems to add a layer of warmth. Prefer it with the PSU. 
   
  In Windows, Using driver version V1.20 gives me ASIO playback but V1.22 for some reason ASIO is playing but there's no sound from the DAC. Probably a DAC issue. WASAPI works great on all driver versions.
   
  Works great in MAC. Although I have to switch it to 24 bit instead of 32 bit in the audio and Midi control panel before there's any sound from the DAC.
   
  This is just a brief note as I am on a shoot and am writing this off as I remembered them. Hopefully I'll be able to provide a better description of my experience with the DI-V3s soon. So far, I am very happy with it and there are no issue with driver crashing or clicks or pops or drop-outs on my system. 
   
  And yes, I definitely enjoyed listening to music streaming from my PC via the DI-V3s to the DAC19DSP. Real musicality.


----------



## rdsu

rhythmic_impulse,
   
  Thanks for this first complete review! 
   
  I will buy one, without PSU, to connect my AudioPC and Blu-ray, so this is always a great help...
   
  About your review, it seems that DI is a neutral product, and that is really great because we don't want another layer changing our sound...
   
  I will look at your better review...


----------



## dustinsterk

Quote: 





rhythmic_impulse said:


> My apologies to all who may have been waiting for my update. Been really busy on a shoot so hardly had time to have a propere listening session. Originally intended to give an impression of the DI-V3s against the DI-V1 in the DAC19DSP (with the PMD-100 mod as well as the DSP-1) and FUN.
> 
> Here's a quick note:
> 
> ...


 
  Thank you for the review!


----------



## rdsu

Someone tried TeraDak PSU with DI?
   
  http://www.teradak.com/en/product_view.asp?ID=209


----------



## SebastianL

Will the DI-V3 work with a Squeezebox Touch (EDO mod) without any drivers to be installed?


----------



## scorpionro

According to this list https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AqiK6WHnz5FHdEtlalVRb29pX3N2WXhfMlAzNmFMZnc it does ( it has the VIA VT1731 controller )


----------



## kr0gg

does anyone know if DI v3 works with Win8 and USB3.0 ?
   
  as i don't have usb2.0 currently.


----------



## SebastianL

Quote: 





scorpionro said:


> According to this list https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AqiK6WHnz5FHdEtlalVRb29pX3N2WXhfMlAzNmFMZnc it does ( it has the VIA VT1731 controller )


 
   
  Thanks! Kingwa told me yes but also told me to inquire in this forum.
  Wow, I didn't know about this list. Well you can add the Stello DA100 Signature (_AKM_ AK4395 chip) to that list 'cause I have one that works perfectly with EDO out of the SBT.


----------



## SebastianL

Quote: 





colour97 said:


> just got mine usb-power yesterday, i second your impression. and easy to blow away logitech touch.
> no annoying drop out issue


 
  'and easy to blow away logitech touch'
   
  Ehhh.... what does that mean exactly?


----------



## rdsu

DI will not use the power from USB cable, to avoid noise from the source, if we use a PSU?


----------



## kr0gg

guys!
  those of you who have DI v3 - could you please check how it works with USB3 ?
  (i'm mostly interested in compatibility with Texas Instruments usb controller, but any info would be nice)


----------



## hawkhead

Works fine with NEC (Renesas)
  Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> guys!
> those of you who have DI v3 - could you please check how it works with USB3 ?
> (i'm mostly interested in compatibility with Texas Instruments usb controller, but any info would be nice)


----------



## Currawong

Works out of my 2012 MacBook Air without issue.


----------



## rictee

I'm keen on impressions of DIv3 compared to DI-DSP through USB input. Anyone?


----------



## tim3320070

V3 sounds slightly better- seems to have a blacker background. Probably placebo. I still use my DSP TE8022 version for upsampling an old CD player via my little Fiio D03K dac. It adds air and depth to the sound at the cost of a slight brightness.


----------



## SebastianL

Quote: 





scorpionro said:


> According to this list https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AqiK6WHnz5FHdEtlalVRb29pX3N2WXhfMlAzNmFMZnc it does ( it has the VIA VT1731 controller )


 
   
  In the notes column on this list it's mentioned that "kernel #4 working in asynchronous mode" meaning that for the EDO mod to work in async mode with the VT1731 chip you have to install kernel #4.
  Anybody has an idea of how to get the kernel #4? Anyone tried this?


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





sebastianl said:


> In the notes column on this list it's mentioned that "kernel #4 working in asynchronous mode" meaning that for the EDO mod to work in async mode with the VT1731 chip you have to install kernel #4.
> Anybody has an idea of how to get the kernel #4? Anyone tried this?


 
   
  My new NFB-27 came with the firmware #4 already installed. It *did not work properly* with the Squeezebox Touch. I just got heavily distorted sound (as if the USB receiver was mixing data from left & right channels. Hard to describe but a total mess). I could get it to work *only once* on several trials and it stopped working after I turn the light off (which always stopped the playback for few seconds with this firmware!?).
   
  I switched back to firmware #3 and everything works fine (the playback still stops when I turn the light off sometimes, but much less often )


----------



## N-W-man

Hi, have anyone tried DI-V3 with Voyage mpd?


----------



## SebastianL

clemmaster said:


> My new NFB-27 came with the firmware #4 already installed. It *did not work properly* with the Squeezebox Touch. I just got heavily distorted sound (as if the USB receiver was mixing data from left & right channels. Hard to describe but a total mess). I could get it to work *only once* on several trials and it stopped working after I turn the light off (which always stopped the playback for few seconds with this firmware!?).
> 
> I switched back to firmware #3 and everything works fine (the playback still stops when I turn the light off sometimes, but much less often )




Yes but with firmware #3 it's probably only working in adaptive mode which is supposed to be inferior to asynchronous mode.

It's quite confusing with FIRMWARE #4 referring to the audio-gd chip and KERNEL#4 referring to SBT.

I can't find any kernel installer anywhere other than the one that's included in the EDO applet. And I would like to get it working in async mode with the VT1731 chip.


----------



## Clemmaster

Adaptive is not inferior by design. It all depends on implementation. So far I must say I prefere the built-in USB-32 (firm #3) to the Stello U3 feeding the NFB-27 through coax.


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





sebastianl said:


> Yes but with firmware #3 it's probably only working in adaptive mode which is supposed to be inferior to asynchronous mode.


 
   
  How do you figure this? The reason I ask is, this kind of casual comment can become false fact fast without confirmation.


----------



## sayh

Firmware 4 is locked at 48khz async with EDO, and no way to change it. Firmware 3 sounds good enough nonetheless,although in adaptive mode, compared to AP2 async.


----------



## SebastianL

Quote: 





currawong said:


> How do you figure this? The reason I ask is, this kind of casual comment can become false fact fast without confirmation.


 
   
  I read about it here (at The Well Tempered Computer):
  "Asynchronous USB looks to be the perfect solution. You configure your PC for bit-perfect output and the DAC takes care of the timing totally independent of the timing of the PC."
  "Asynchronous mode is not better by design but by implementation because you can implement a top quality (low jitter) clock in the DAC."
   
  Also I feel it's the general opinion over on computeraudiophile.com
  But I understand it depends on the implementation which is why I would like to try SBT async with a DI-V3 which has very little jitter according to Kingwa. Also there are reports that the clock in SBT is nothing to boast about.
   
  Sorry if I didn't make myself clear and caused some confusion.


----------



## SebastianL

Quote: 





sayh said:


> Firmware 4 is locked at 48khz async with EDO, and no way to change it.


 
   
  Does this apply even with kernel #4 installed? Then it should be added to the notes of the EDO compatibility list.


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





sebastianl said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Sorry, I meant how do you know that firmware #3 is not async and #4 is async? That just strikes me as very unusual.


----------



## drez

currawong said:


> Sorry, I meant how do you know that firmware #3 is not async and #4 is async? That just strikes me as very unusual.




X2 I thought you needed different sort of clock for asynch and adaptive usb (fixed vs voltage controlled.). Although maybe I have extrapolated too much into wavelength's white paper.


----------



## kr0gg

for example, DI-DSP works in adaptive mode if no drivers are installed and in async with them.


----------



## drez

kr0gg said:


> for example, DI-DSP works in adaptive mode if no drivers are installed and in async with them.




I have definitely confused myself with wavelengths white paper in this case... DX"


----------



## rdsu

Quote: 





rdsu said:


> DI will not use the power from USB cable, to avoid noise from the source, if we use a PSU?


 

 Any help here?
   
  Thanks


----------



## SebastianL

Quote: 





currawong said:


> Sorry, I meant how do you know that firmware #3 is not async and #4 is async? That just strikes me as very unusual.


 
   
  Again I'm just referring to the EDO compatibility list that was mentioned earlier in this thread. If you read the USB transfer mode column corresponding to "Dac's w. VIA 1731":

*firmware #3 Adaptive
 firmware #4 Asynchronous*

 Whether that's correct or not I don't know. I don't even know who made this list to begin with or if it's being maintained. I somehow assumed that Triode kept track of it.
  Next to the USB transfer mode column there is the Notes column that states that:
   
*(Chip supports up to 384KHz/32bit), with kernel #3 working in adaptive mode, with kernel #4 working in asynchronous mode*
   
  That's where I got the information. Been trying to locate Triode himself to confirm this but somhow I can't login to the Slimdevices forum in order to contact him.


----------



## hostrup

Hi! 
   
  I recieved my Audio-gd DI V3 yesterday,I bought it as an upgrade to my DI DSP (V2) - which worked perfectly for me to. 


 I recieved my V3 with the default firmware chip #4 installed - this did not work in XBMC, only in foobar. 
   
  But then i tried to change it to firmware #5 - and now i works perfectly with XBMC (Frodo RC3 with Wassapi ). 
   
  I will test it on my MPD server, and i will try to compare it to the V2  and the V1 (Dsp) Which one of my hifi friends has. 
   
  Best regards,


----------



## Clemmaster

Firmware #5?


----------



## ciphercomplete

I was hoping to get a little confirmation from fellow owners of the DI-V3 and DI-PSU.  I recently DIYed a usb cable with the VBUS or 5v wire severed.  When I compared the diy wire to a standard usb cable the DI-V3 had a much more analog sound.  I asked Kingwa about this since he told me before I bought the DI that it wouldn't use USB power if attached to the PSU:
   
_"The DI V3 don't use the +5V wire while use extra PSU._
 _Disconnect the +5V wires total have less interrupt to the data wires._
_Kingwa"_
   
  I was hoping we have a few diyers who can also test this out.  The 5v wire is either red or orange in standard usb 2.0 cables.  If we have enough confirmation of what I was hearing then we would have a real easy way to further isolate our dacs from computer noise since the DI truly needs no usb power to operate its clock unlike a lot of other USB audio solutions.


----------



## rdsu

Quote: 





ciphercomplete said:


> I was hoping to get a little confirmation from fellow owners of the DI-V3 and DI-PSU.  I recently DIYed a usb cable with the VBUS or 5v wire severed.  When I compared the diy wire to a standard usb cable the DI-V3 had a much more analog sound.  I asked Kingwa about this since he told me before I bought the DI that it wouldn't use USB power if attached to the PSU:
> 
> _"The DI V3 don't use the +5V wire while use extra PSU._
> _Disconnect the +5V wires total have less interrupt to the data wires._
> ...


 

 Great! 
  That answered my question...
   
  It seems that I will need to make a surgery on my future USB cable...


----------



## norrest

Good afternoon! I want to afford the latest product from the AUDIO GD DI-V3 but after TE8802 (which comes bundled with the DAC), I have serious doubts.
  I will give you advice! The best sound quality I've heard from a PC, which is the image SACD-R using
  foobar and plug "foo_input_sacd" which encodes online stream from DSD to PCM. Comparing with even the quality losslless meaningless - the sound SACD-R wins instantly, even with the conversion to PCM!
  Sorry about that little known and people just do not want to develop.
  With TE8802 using foo_input_sacd kernel out on falling blue windows error crash USB driver. With ASIO - was stable, but the fall there.
  Asked the friend to check the functionality of the new devices, but is not so sure.
  Can you check a bunch of SACD-R + foobar?
  If your system is still quite high quality selected, then after that you will not regret.
  Thank you! !


----------



## norrest

Are there any other drivers for TE8802 which are stable, but work Audio gd?


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote: 





norrest said:


> Good afternoon! I want to afford the latest product from the AUDIO GD DI-V3 but after TE8802 (which comes bundled with the DAC), I have serious doubts.
> I will give you advice! The best sound quality I've heard from a PC, which is the image SACD-R using
> foobar and plug "foo_input_sacd" which encodes online stream from DSD to PCM. Comparing with even the quality losslless meaningless - the sound SACD-R wins instantly, even with the conversion to PCM!
> Sorry about that little known and people just do not want to develop.
> ...


 
   
  I can't help you with the SACD stuff but I think Audio GD stopped using the TE8802 due to reliability issues and delayed driver releases.  Kingwa is a honest guy, email him tell him the issues you had with the TE8802 and he will tell you straight up if the DI-V3 will work for you or not.


----------



## Currawong

ciphercomplete: That's what Kingwa told me as well. Even though it was only a small % of users, he wants 100% of users without issues. He also said that the failure rate with the VIA chipset is zero and they will customise the firmware as he wishes.
   
  Quote: 





sebastianl said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for that, I should probably ask Kingwa myself to find out what is going on. Knowing how these things go, there will probably be a few more firmware revisions anyway.


----------



## norrest

Quote: 





ciphercomplete said:


> I can't help you with the SACD stuff but I think Audio GD stopped using the TE8802 due to reliability issues and delayed driver releases.  Kingwa is a honest guy, email him tell him the issues you had with the TE8802 and he will tell you straight up if the DI-V3 will work for you or not.


 
  Kingwa can not give 100-tion ensures that there are no windows blue. And what is the test SACD-R? Torrent to them very much. Laziness?


----------



## i019791

Quote: 





norrest said:


> Good afternoon! I want to afford the latest product from the AUDIO GD DI-V3 but after TE8802 (which comes bundled with the DAC), I have serious doubts.
> I will give you advice! The best sound quality I've heard from a PC, which is the image SACD-R using
> foobar and plug "foo_input_sacd" which encodes online stream from DSD to PCM. Comparing with even the quality losslless meaningless - the sound SACD-R wins instantly, even with the conversion to PCM!
> Sorry about that little known and people just do not want to develop.
> ...


 
  On Win7 + Wasapi 2.1, I have no problems with 2 Audio-gd TE8802 units when using foo_input_sacd


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote: 





norrest said:


> Kingwa can not give 100-tion ensures that there are no windows blue. And what is the test SACD-R? Torrent to them very much. Laziness?


 
   
  I am going to assume the rudeness of your post is due to the language translator you appear to be using and leave it at that.  I do not use Foobar, I don't own SACDs to rip and I'm not interested in possibly downloading illegal copies of SACDs to test for you when Kingwa could easily answer your questions.  Good luck.


----------



## hostrup

Yes firmware #5 is supporting 24/192 through spdif, but not i2s. 

When i bought the v3 i also bought some ekstra firmware chips. 

I Dont know my xbmc could not play with the #4 chip.


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Just another brief Update:
   
  I've installed the TCXO upgrade from Kingwa into the DIV3s. Could've kicked myself for not ordering it together earlier.
   
  The TCXO definitely improves on the DI-V3s. Greater sense of instrumental colours, greater sense of ambiance and details. There's weight to the timbre, pianos sound lovely. The sense of spatial perspective is the biggest change I've noticed from the stock XO. There's a real sense of 3D space and separation. 
   
  It looks like the USB32 in the DI-V3s with the DAC19 and C2 is a winner here. 
   
  Still waiting for the Tentlabs XO for a comparison later.


----------



## kr0gg

did anyone try to use DI v3 with Jplay?
  i wonder if setting latency to Directlink is possible.


----------



## rdsu

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> did anyone try to use DI v3 with Jplay?
> i wonder if setting latency to Directlink is possible.


 

 Check this: http://jplay.eu/forum/computer-audio/audio-gd-di-v3-vt1731-and-jplay-compatibility/
   
  Maybe could help...


----------



## kr0gg

that's my post actually


----------



## Ajwaldo

I have a DI-V3 and are trying to run it with the SBT with the  EDO, though the SBT says it is running asynchronous the Metrum Octave DAC will not lock on to the signal. I am running the #4 firmware in the VIA 1731 DI-V3, the question is Where do I find the EDO with the #4 kernel as I would like to try it? The unit runs Ok with SPDIF output from the SBT but will not lock on any file over 96khz...? Any help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## danik97

How DI-V3 in comarison with AP2? 
   
  I had an AP2+PP and sold it soon. Found it too much aggressive and bright sound.
   
  How sound a DI-V3?


----------



## Currawong

I like the DI V3 with my Calyx DAC better than my AP1/PP set-up. For whatever reason, the AP1/PP seemed to produce a sound out of the Calyx that was a touch more clinical and less musical. Hard to say if that will correlate with your DAC however.


----------



## danik97

I'm already placed an order for Musical Fidelity V-Link-192. I found much very nice positive feedbacks. 
  Hope it will work out with my system.


----------



## SebastianL

Quote: 





ajwaldo said:


> I have a DI-V3 and are trying to run it with the SBT with the  EDO, though the SBT says it is running asynchronous the Metrum Octave DAC will not lock on to the signal. I am running the #4 firmware in the VIA 1731 DI-V3, the question is Where do I find the EDO with the #4 kernel as I would like to try it? The unit runs Ok with SPDIF output from the SBT but will not lock on any file over 96khz...? Any help would be greatly appreciated.


 
   
  Try to contact *Triode* who made the EDO app over on Slimdevices forum:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?94512-Announce-Enhanced-Digital-Output-app-USB-Dac-and-192k-Digital-Ouput
   
  Please let us know if you have any luck.


----------



## Somnambulist

Getting a bit lost with the technical talk and I don't plan on using S/PDIF... if I buy a DI V3 (w/the PSU and upgraded clock), will it just work off the bat with the SBT and EDO app via USB?


----------



## Clemmaster

If you ask Kingwa to pre-install the kernel firmware #3, yes it will.
   
  With the newer firmware (#4) I cannot say for sure it will work. It didn't work properly on my NFB-27 (lots of distortion).


----------



## Somnambulist

Thanks. I want something hassle free but I'd rather not pay what's being asked for the Audiophilleo or the Legato 2, and at the cheaper end it's really between this and the HiFace 2, and I like the fact I can order the PSU (as to not run off USB power) with it.


----------



## Gavin Ly

Hi all,
   
  I'm using a Nuforce DDA-100. I'm thinking about adding a usb-spdif converter because DDA-100 doesn't support 24/88.2k and 24/192k files though usb. Do any of you happen to know if the audio-gd digital interface goes well with the nuforce please? Thanks a lot!
   
  Gavin


----------



## kr0gg

guys, tell me one thing please:
   
  every converter in the market uses a 12mhz clock for usb receiver chip and 2 separate clocks (24.576 and 22.5792 mhz) for clocking the PCM audio stream.
  one of the biggest difference between these (all other) converters is the clock quality and how they are implemented.
   
  the maker of from Art Legato claims to select the best clocks by measuring lots of the same type, the maker of Offramp (as i remember) claims the same.
  Berkeley audio use a special ordered Crytek clocks, Bel canto's marketing of the new usb-converter line is mainly based on the quality of the clocks they use...
   
  and at tha same time....Audio-gd's DI has NO CLOCKS for PCM audio stream.
  the only clock it has is a 12 mhz which only controls the receiver chip.
  i mean - that's really weird.... (even though i enjoy my DI-DSP)
  but how possibly can Audio-gd's design can superior to anything?


----------



## hawkhead

The VIA has built in PLL


----------



## kr0gg

yep.
  that's what i'm talking about
  in my understanding there's absolutely no way PLL can win over a decent implemented XO
  i thought that PLL and low jitter are... well, antonymes


----------



## hawkhead

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> yep.
> that's what i'm talking about
> in my understanding there's absolutely no way PLL can win over a decent implemented XO
> i thought that PLL and low jitter are... well, antonymes


 
   
  http://www.maximintegrated.com/products/clocks/generator/jitter/


----------



## seaice

I have had the DI-V1 for a long time. Just got the DI-V3 today and love it from the first sound because the improvement is evident. The same setup (A-gd Ref One DAC > LD MKVIIIse > HD800) but the sound is much more coherent and real. First impressions are really great! I hope that is not a new-toy-placebo effect and the SQ will stand for a long time


----------



## Pacha

Did you do some A/B tests to feel the improvements a bit better ?
  I've the DI-V1 in my setup (DAC19 + C2) and wanted to upgrade to V2 but the V3 defeat it and doesn't suffer from the driver issues so I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on the V3.
  I'm quite affraid about the V3 being too bright as somebody else said something like "a veil has been removed but at the expense of a little more brightness".
  I already find my setup bright sometimes so I don't want any more brightness. Just more clarity, possibly less brightness, and more bass extension as I feel it to be a bit weak.
   
  Could you elaborate a bit more your feelings about V3 vs V1 please? I mean in terms of differences in tone accuracy, frequency extension (highs and bass), coherence, soundstage, etc.
   
  Thanks a lot in advance.


----------



## seaice

My direct ABing was rather short and just FYI: I had the DI-V1 with the TCXO upgrade and have the DI-V3 with the TCXO upgrade as well...
   
  At the moment, I can provide a little bit more experience after ca 25 hours with the DI-V3:
   
  1. Many instruments sound more real, eg. saxophone, violin, piano, cymbals... and human voice too. Sound fidelity has improved a lot. Everything sounds better/much better in terms of accuracy.
   
  2. Yes, it sounds like a veil has been removed but not sure about the "little more brightness". This is very tricky to describe: There is an overall increase in detail and fidelity everywhere but not at the cost of a shift to the treble. Bass is still there in a very good volume and I believe that it is extended and more detailed. The same with highs - extended and more detailed. Frequency balance is OK. I think that the overall sound can be perceived as "a little more bright" but this is rather due to the overall accuracy and detail increase and not due to a shift or a change in the frequency response. But my headphone amps are not bass-shy at all and I am unable to estimate possible effects of DI-V3 in different setups. The synergy with the following headphone chains is definitely great:
  DI-V3>A-Gd-Ref1>LD MKVIIISe>Senn HD800
  DI-V3>A-Gd-Ref1>A-Gd Phoenix>Senn HD800
   
  ---> I think that my DAC (A-Gd Ref One) loves better digital input. This turned out in the past and DI-V3 is a great step towards its full potential.
   
  I hope that everything can be understood  ... also hope that this will help you... and 'am curious about the experience of others...
   
  One last note: I think that "the brightness" can have some relation to the TCXO upgrade itself. I had this feeling when I upgraded to the TCXO in my DI-V1. But do not take this too seriously, this is rather a speculative opinion based on my unreliable memory from quite distant past.


----------



## Pacha

I think I'm going to pull the trigger on the V3 and give it a try myself.
   
  Is the TCXO clock the exact same as the one used in the V1? It looks like it is. As I already have one, I may keep it and try it in the V3.
   
  By the way, would you say that the improvements are quite subtle or truly noticeable without needing to make A/B tests?


----------



## hawkhead

The clocks are different speeds:
  V1 24.5760Mhz
  v3 12Mhz
   
  Does anyone know why there is a spare firmware chip ?


----------



## Kingwa

The spare firmware is the #5 for replace the default #4 in the DI-V3,  consider slight on the warmer sound flavor and have not I2S output , the #5 working with the V1.1 driver under windows, have not driver install necessary under mac and Linux.


----------



## seaice

Quote: 





pacha said:


> I think I'm going to pull the trigger on the V3 and give it a try myself.
> 
> Is the TCXO clock the exact same as the one used in the V1? It looks like it is. As I already have one, I may keep it and try it in the V3.
> 
> By the way, would you say that the improvements are quite subtle or truly noticeable without needing to make A/B tests?


 

 In my case, the change is not subtle. Fidelity of piano and other instruments is really something. There are many nuances of the sound that I was missing from my DAC before. So far, I have never heard this level of fidelity from my setup. To my ears, the change is really distinctive and, day by day, I enjoy everything more and more. At some moments I am almost amazed by the sound because of its correctness. Imagine a yellow filter over your screen. You have an odd feeling that something is not right with your screen but you are not sure about it because you have nothing to compare your screen with. One day, someone takes the filter off your screen and you encounter that everything lost some odd touch. White is white now. I love this aspect of the upgrade V1>V3. It is really noticeable.
   
  As for the TCXO, I haven't opened the DI-V3 yet and not sure if I can identify this... Ask Audio-GD, they will provide you an exact answer.


----------



## Pacha

@ hawkhead : thanks for this. I'll have to order the specific clock for the V3 then
   
  @ seaice : thank you for your answer, it makes it even more clear that I'm going to upgrade.
  I've just came across the fact that there won't be any item shipped during the next few days or weeks from audio-gd due to the New Chinese Year (at least that's what they wrote on audio-gd website), and I'm leaving mid-March till September.
  It looks like I'll upgrade in September now... Anyway, I'm going to ask Kingwa if he cannot quickly prepare a parcel for me before audio-gd closes in February, I've nothing to loose by trying it.


----------



## hawkhead

Kingwa
   
  thanks - you should put that information on your website.
   
  I am running v1.22 drivers (I followed the instructions and have left the drivers where they were installed)
   
  In foobar v 1.1.18 I can use KS, WASAPI but VIA ASIO will not play (no sound) and VIA ASIO will not open (It will open from the desktop shortcut). It will play if I use ASIO4ALL
   
   

   
   
   
  Quote: 





kingwa said:


> The spare firmware is the #5 for replace the default #4 in the DI-V3,  consider slight on the warmer sound flavor and have not I2S output , the #5 working with the V1.1 driver under windows, have not driver install necessary under mac and Linux.


----------



## Pacha

I've just emailed Kingwa (or Edwin, I don't know), I hope they'll be able to dispatch before closing.
   
  By the way, are both firmwares included in the package by default? I didn't see any pricing for a separate firmware part. I would like to try both especially if the #5 is a little more warm-sounding as Kingwa just said here (I'd hope for it not be colored but maybe add a little more bass and taper treble peaks a little).


----------



## seaice

@Pacha: I am still trying to describe the sound with my non-native English. After more listening and studying this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/220770/describing-sound-a-glossary I can describe the sound definitely as non-bright but crisp, well defined, extended in bass and treble with good peak control, focused, grip (bass is very well controlled), lush, natural, resolving, smooth, textured... I think that the V3 is better than the V1 in these areas.


----------



## hawkhead

Pacha
   
  certainly I received both firmware without requesting them
   
  Quote: 





pacha said:


> I've just emailed Kingwa (or Edwin, I don't know), I hope they'll be able to dispatch before closing.
> 
> By the way, are both firmwares included in the package by default? I didn't see any pricing for a separate firmware part. I would like to try both especially if the #5 is a little more warm-sounding as Kingwa just said here (I'd hope for it not be colored but maybe add a little more bass and taper treble peaks a little).


----------



## icecap

so far the comparisons have been V1 with V3.. I am using a V2.. anyone using a V2 has also a V3 for a detail comparison? or I am missing somewhere in the thread?


----------



## seaice

One warning to the V1>V3 upgrade: If a recording was ugly before the upgrade, it can be even uglier after the upgrade - I have encountered some treble peaks on ugly recordings. On the contrary, you will love nice recordings more than ever before


----------



## Pacha

I'm not surprised by what you say, as the more my USB to SPDIF converters were improving, the crappiest bad recordings sounded. I'm prepared to that, and even if I regret sometimes to be able to listen to some (bad) records which I enjoyed on my PC sound card at least 5 or 6 years ago, the pleasure I get from good records now outclasses it by far.
   
  Concerning V2, the V2 was said to bring improvements over V1, but not really striking improvements from what I can remember. You should forget about the V2 anyway as the drivers issue makes it not worth considering it.


----------



## Gavin Ly

Hi Everyone,
   
  I'm interested in DI-V3 after reading some very positive reviews here. Thanks for all the posters! Can I ask if it plays 44.1khz and its multiples as well as the multiples of 48khz? Because I read somewhere that the older version DI-V1 plays 48khz files better.
   
  And the new DI-V3 doesn't have upsampling function. Am I right?
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Pacha

I'm asking myself the same question about upsampling on the V3.
  If there is any upsampling, it looks like you can't change the rate like on the V1.
  I think it may be non-upsampling then, avoiding compatibility trouble with some DACs.


----------



## Pacha

For those using the PSU + USB input on the DI and who want to get rid of USB power completely (and its noise), I found a quick and easy workaround not requiring cable surgery:
   
   
  I've read on some websites that many DAC won't work without USB power, obviously. But we shouldn't be limited by that with the DI as it can be powered by its dedicated PSU.
  I cutted small pieces of paper from a post it note, which I pushed in until I reached the bottom of the connector computer side, and held them both in place with some tape, letting only the data pins visible.
  I plugged that and the DI was recognized by the PC when power via PSU. Switching to USB power at the back of the DI, it wasn't recognized anymore, so no USB power.
  I had small pops in the sound so I think my paper insulation isn't very good and I must had brought bad contact with the data pins, but it proved that we can go this way if we want data only USB, it will definitely work with the DI.
   
  I finally worked it out using rubber electrical insulation sticky tape, and that fixed the pops. Same deal, just cut small pieces of that tape and place it over the power pins of the USB plug computer side (that's both pin outward the inside of the plug).
  I had the same power behaviour that with paper i.e. with power switch set on USB on the DI, the DI wasn't recognized, while with switch set on PSU, the DI worked. So no USB power any more going through the USB cable then.
   
  After a short try, I don't find any difference in the sound after this mod though. It seems that the DI's USB isolation is already pretty good. Anyway, it couldn't be a bad mod, plus it was cheap and easy to make. I'll let it plugged like that.
   
  Those who wish to try may let us know what they think about changes in sound if any.


----------



## rdsu

Pacha,
   
I thought about the same, instead of removing the 5V pin...
   
I still doesn't have my system working with Audio-gd DI-V3, but I will do the same... 
   
Thanks for let us know!


----------



## seaice

Several more days with the DI-V3 and still amazed by the sound!
   
  One remark: I use Kernel Streaming in Foobar 2000 1.2.2. Wasapi does not work for me with the DI-V3 (Win 7 64bit fully updated). But for the previous DI-V1, Wasapi was the only way... Times are changing


----------



## rdaneel

OK, these may be dumb questions, but reading 50 pages of this thread hasn't answered it, and the landscape seems to be changing with the release of the V3...
   
  1) Does the DI-V3 up/downsample?  As it lacks a DSP, I don't think so, but want to confirm.  As do most of us, I have a lot of music in 16/44.1 FLAC, plus a bit in 24/96 and very little in 24/192.  I want to be able to output all those sample rates to my DAC.  I think the V1 and maybe V2 would resample everything to 24/96, which I would prefer to avoid.  Does the V3 offer bit perfect output?
   
  2) In terms of jitter reduction capabilities, do I need to connect my SB Touch (with EDO for 24/192 output) to the DI via USB to take advantage of asynch USB, or would using coax SPDIF offer the same quality?  As I do not HAVE to use USB with the Touch, I'm wondering if it is worth the additional hassle vs. using just coax digital.
   
  3) Does the DI's external PSU need to be turned on and off for listening, or can it be left on all the time?  My family needs the stereo to be as simple as possible, and having to manually turn on more devices is not going to work.  Plus, having the DI powered on and off might cause problems with the Touch (I've read that users with DACs that power up and down have issues keeping a connection).
   
  Thanks for any advice on these!


----------



## seaice

I think that these are great questions for Audio-GD.
   
  As for the question 3), I keep the DI's external PSU on but not sure if this is correct.


----------



## davidfrombxl

[size=12.666666984558105px] [size=10pt]Hi all, I'm new here [/size][/size]
 [size=12.666666984558105px]  [/size]
 [size=12.666666984558105px] [size=10pt]I'm a happy owner of a Reference7.1 DAC, that is connected to the spdif output of a very good soundcard (LynxTwo).[/size][/size]
 [size=12.666666984558105px] [size=10pt]I use Foobar with the plugin JPLAY, all is working very well.[/size][/size]
 [size=12.666666984558105px]  [/size]
 [size=12.666666984558105px] [size=10pt]Now, I'm thinking about using a USB Asynchronous, and I just see the DI-V3 with the power supply (class A PSU)[/size][/size]
 [size=12.666666984558105px] [size=10pt]I would like to be sure that JPLAY is fully compatible with the DI-V3, because JPLAY improve a lot my system and I would like to continue to use it.[/size][/size]
 [size=12.666666984558105px]  [/size]
 [size=12.666666984558105px] [size=10pt]Is it working with Wasapi, asio and KS ?[/size][/size]
 [size=12.666666984558105px]  [/size]
 [size=12.666666984558105px] [size=10pt]I would like to know if this is a real improvement over the SPDIF output of a very good soundcard ( in fact the best: LynxTwo)[/size][/size]
 [size=12.666666984558105px]  [/size]
 [size=12.666666984558105px] [size=10pt]Thanks in advance [/size][/size]
 [size=12.666666984558105px] [size=10pt]David[/size][/size]


----------



## rdaneel

Quote: 





seaice said:


> I think that these are great questions for Audio-GD.
> 
> As for the question 3), I keep the DI's external PSU on but not sure if this is correct.


 
  Thanks seaice.  I am hoping some folks here have thoughts, but I have sent the questions to Augio-GD as well.  I'll post a response and edit my post with any info I get, hopefully it will help others with the same questions.


----------



## Pacha

I personally let my PSU for DI-V1 on all the time, and I didn't have any trouble with it for the last past two years, so I think you can do the same with the V3.


----------



## rdaneel

Here are Kingwa's responses to my questions, though I think there is something lost in translation (considering I speak no Chinese, I'm not holding it against the man!):
  Quote: 





rdaneel said:


> OK, these may be dumb questions, but reading 50 pages of this thread hasn't answered it, and the landscape seems to be changing with the release of the V3...
> 
> 1) Does the DI-V3 up/downsample?  As it lacks a DSP, I don't think so, but want to confirm.  As do most of us, I have a lot of music in 16/44.1 FLAC, plus a bit in 24/96 and very little in 24/192.  I want to be able to output all those sample rates to my DAC.  I think the V1 and maybe V2 would resample everything to 24/96, which I would prefer to avoid.  Does the V3 offer bit perfect output?
> 
> ...


----------



## icecap

pacha said:


> Concerning V2, the V2 was said to bring improvements over V1, but not really striking improvements from what I can remember. You should forget about the V2 anyway as the drivers issue makes it not worth considering it.



Thanks. Was this replying to my question? Hah. I had a V2 already.. Just wanna hear from more of u guys if the upgrade is substantial..

No previous V2 owners here? Considering the amount of discussion (or stick ) V2 got?


----------



## kr0gg

uhm, guys... does that mean that DI-v3 works only with a PSU and cannot be powered from USB?


----------



## seaice

@kr0gg: Same as the V1, V3 can operate without the PSU, powered from USB.


----------



## Pacha

Quote: 





icecap said:


> Thanks. Was this replying to my question? Hah. I had a V2 already.. Just wanna hear from more of u guys if the upgrade is substantial..
> 
> No previous V2 owners here? Considering the amount of discussion (or stick
> 
> ...


 
   
  Ok, I didn't understand that you already have a V2. Let's wait some people who did the V2 -> V3 upgrade path give their opinion then.


----------



## Pacha

I managed to place my order on time for the V3, before audio-gd closing for 2 weeks. I'll compare it to V1 and post commnents when I receive it.


----------



## rdaneel

I just put in a pre-order, I'm curious to see what the discount is for New Year orders!


----------



## kr0gg

i guess it's around 5%  if you buy a single device.


----------



## Erieg

I placed my order on Sunday night and he emailed me that he got it out the door just in time for his last pick up. I am very happy about that


----------



## Pacha

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> i guess it's around 5%  if you buy a single device.


 
   
  Indeed, you guys will have 5% off like SleepyOne and myself had.


----------



## rdaneel

Quote: 





pacha said:


> Indeed, you guys will have 5% off like SleepyOne and myself had.


 
  5% sounds good to me.  That's about $12.50 for a tricked out DI-V3 and PSU.


----------



## jimmychan

Has anyone successfully connected the DI-V3 to Logitech SB Touch w/EDO? I got the info from SBT shown it was running, but no data out from the DI-V3.
   
  Then I tried connected DI to a Mac, and it work perfectly fine with the Mac.
   
  And then I tried connected the SBT USB to Benchmark DAC1's USB input, and also works fine.
   
  Any thing I missed in the setup?


----------



## CChang

Hi Guys,

Anybody out there using pairing the DI-V3 with OSX with software player like Audirvana or Pure Music?

Thanks


----------



## SleepyOne

Quote: 





pacha said:


> Indeed, you guys will have 5% off like SleepyOne and myself had.


 
   
  I am happy with that


----------



## rdaneel

Quote: 





jimmychan said:


> Has anyone successfully connected the DI-V3 to Logitech SB Touch w/EDO? I got the info from SBT shown it was running, but no data out from the DI-V3.
> 
> Then I tried connected DI to a Mac, and it work perfectly fine with the Mac.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Jimmy, do you know which firmware and kernel versions you are using?  From the compatibility chart in Triode's thread on the squeezebox forum, it looks like those matter... I'm in the dark, myself, but want this to work given that it is my intended setup as well.


----------



## rdaneel

Jimmy,
   
  Another user is trying to get the DI-V3 to work with EDO and is also having some trouble.  This is the thread:
   
  http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?94512-Announce-Enhanced-Digital-Output-app-USB-Dac-and-192k-Digital-Ouput/page125
   
  I would keep an eye on that to see if Triode responds or if other users find a way to make it work.  I think at least one person has...
   
  Good luck to both of us!


----------



## macrog

I am using the USB32 input of my Master 7 in my lounge with Audirvana+, Pure Music, Fidelia and Amarra(full version) on a Mac Mini running OSX without issues. All the software is the full registered versions.
   
It definately works Plug and Play on the Mac. Amarra seems the hardest software to get to run properly but it isnt usb32 related.
   
I also run a Master 7 USB32 under windows 7 Pro 32bit on a relatively low powered Q9650 cpu with 4GB of RAM in my kitchen (using JRiver and Foobar) and another Master 7 via usb32 in my bedroom under Windows 8 Pro 64bit on a fairly maxed out 3930k running JRiver/JPlay.
   
I have had no problems apart from the Windows 8 machine which required the new version of JPlay (5.1) to work properly in direct mode.
   
I hope this is helpful.
   
Regards
   
Macrog


----------



## kr0gg

you're the man, i've been waiting for here 
  can you really run xtream in directlink with usb-32 under Win8?
   
  also - can you try using a USB3 port for your usb32 ? does it work in Jplay with low buffers?


----------



## macrog

Extreme doesn't work but direct link does under River or Beach settings.
   
  Direct link has the lowest latency so why would you want to set the buffers? I get zero drop outs.
   
  Yes it did work on USB3 sockets but I just tried it then moved back to USB2.
   
  I am happy to help if you have any further questions.
   
  Regards
   
  Macrog


----------



## kr0gg

by buffers i meant Jplay settings called "buffer" (directlink, 2, 4, 8,. etc)
   
  do you mean that xstream doesn't work at all or it requires a higher buffer?
   
  also - did you compare your Audiophilleo (it's in your signature) to the usb-32 ?


----------



## macrog

I prefer the usb32 to the audiophilleo.
   
  I haven't tried too hard to get Extreme working. I will have a play today and let you know how I get on.
   
  I just tried the lowest buffer settings 2 and River and Beach still works fine.
   
  Regards
   
  Macrog


----------



## macrog

JPlay Extreme mode will not work for me on any settings
   
  I tried all buffer settings
   
  I think the Kernel Streaming driver for USB32 doesnt work on Windows 8
   
  Regards
   
  Macrog


----------



## Pacha

Quote: 





macrog said:


> I prefer the usb32 to the audiophilleo.


 
   
  That's pretty good news actually! Bang for the bucks again from audio-gd then.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote: 





macrog said:


> JPlay Extreme mode will not work for me on any settings
> 
> I tried all buffer settings
> 
> ...


 
   
  I don't use JPlay (I heard no difference between it a nd JRiver in memory play mode) but I have been using Kernel Streaming on Windows 8 64 bit for about 3 weeks now with no issue.


----------



## davidfrombxl

is the USB32 from Master exactly the same than DI-V3?
  On another forum, on the JPLAY website, someone tell than he needs to set the buffers to 512 sample to get the DI-V3 working with JPLAY.
   
  So, I'm still wondering if the DI-V3 perfectly works with Jplay


----------



## jimmychan

Thanks rdaneel,
   
  I just bought the Di-V3, so its on the default mode. I am also using the latest kernel of EDO.


----------



## rdaneel

jimmychan said:


> Thanks rdaneel,
> 
> I just bought the Di-V3, so its on the default mode. I am also using the latest kernel of EDO.




Sorry I can't help more. I'm hoping Triode or other users will provide some assistance on the squeezebox forum...


----------



## macrog

I just installed JPlay on another PC running Windows 7 Pro 32bit and it doesnt work in Extreme mode on that either (Also with a Master 7)
   
  I do prefer rhe JPlay plugin to JRiver alone. I admit I might be imagining it after payinh for JPlay. I will ask some friends opinions.
   
  Regards
   
  Macrog


----------



## drez

macrog said:


> JPlay Extreme mode will not work for me on any settings
> 
> I tried all buffer settings
> 
> ...




I think something is broken with extreme mode with this version, just use beach its more transparent anyway IMO.


----------



## CChang

macrog said:


> I am using the USB32 input of my Master 7 in my lounge with Audirvana+, Pure Music, Fidelia and Amarra(full version) on a Mac Mini running OSX without issues. All the software is the full registered versions.
> Thanks Macrog. I have issue using Audirvana Plus with the DI-V3. Only the 44.1 puts through. Those up sample one 88.2, 176.4,192 do not put through, no sound. The software is at latest version and is the full registered version. The same set up without the DI-V3 works flawlessly for all the 44.1,88.2,176.4 and 192 kHz
> 
> It definately works Plug and Play on the Mac. Amarra seems the hardest software to get to run properly but it isnt usb32 related.
> ...


----------



## Ajwaldo

Quote: 





jimmychan said:


> Has anyone successfully connected the DI-V3 to Logitech SB Touch w/EDO? I got the info from SBT shown it was running, but no data out from the DI-V3.
> 
> Then I tried connected DI to a Mac, and it work perfectly fine with the Mac.
> 
> ...


 
  Ditto for me, same senario, though I have tried it also direct to Win7 and Vista no go there also.  When running through the SPDIF output on the SBT it will not play higher than 96khz files!!!
  I think it is a software/firmware fault in the DI-V3, unless I too have missed something in 3 setups. Mind you Kingwah says it is plug and play in Linux(SBT) so  it should be SIMPLE. The only thing I have not done is run it through a Hub from the SBT but I think the trouble is in the DI units. My DI-V1 which runs in adaptive mode is OK, will play up to 176khz file using the SPDIF on the touch with EDO. Please let us know if you find a fix.


----------



## GuyDebord

Quote: 





cchang said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Anybody out there using pairing the DI-V3 with OSX with software player like Audirvana or Pure Music?
> 
> Thanks


 
   
  I am. I moved from the Audiophilio 1 + PP to the DI-V3 TXCO + PSU. I use an i7 mac mini server with Pure Music, Audirvana and Amarra, but I play with PM most of the time due to its plugin capabilities.
  Why do you ask? What do you want to know?


----------



## CChang

Hi GuyDebord, It is because I have issue using Audirvana Plus with the DI-V3. Only the 44.1 puts through. But those up sample using Audirvana do not put through. That means 88.2, 176.4,192 get no sound. 

The software is at latest version and is the full registered version. 

My system consists a 4G ram , 128G SSD MacBook in latest OS, song file in external HDD via FireWire. Dac is a Rockana Wavequest. The same set up without the DI-V3 works flawlessly for all the 44.1,88.2,176.4 and 192 kHz.

May I know the setting you use the Audirvana up sample to DI-V3? Thanks!


----------



## Currawong

I don't get any sound using BitPerfect using up sampling, though I haven't tried Audirvana Plus yet. I'll experiment.


----------



## GuyDebord

Quote: 





cchang said:


> Hi GuyDebord, It is because I have issue using Audirvana Plus with the DI-V3. Only the 44.1 puts through. But those up sample using Audirvana do not put through. That means 88.2, 176.4,192 get no sound.
> 
> The software is at latest version and is the full registered version.
> 
> ...


 
   
  That's really odd, I've had no issues at all at any sample rate, I have 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4 and 192 material and it works flawlessly. I use Audirvana on Direct-Integer mode, at start-up it recognizes my DAC which is 32/192, as soon as it starts playing it then moves to any sample rate the music throws at it. Here are my settings.


----------



## SleepyOne

My DI-V3S (TCXO) + DI-PSU arrived. Will try to get some feedback after burn-in etc. Still trying to figure out what's going on re: upsample/down sample & bit rate etc wile inside jriver & foobar. Seems to be functioning ok with JRiver, foobar and JPlay though.


----------



## preproman

Has this been compared to the U18?


----------



## Pacha

DI-V3S just received.
   
   
  I switched connectors inside the DI to have current technolgy going through RCA instead of BNC.
  This was not that easy as Audio-gd put some glue on the connectors to prevent them from unplugging during transport, but I managed to switch them.
   
  As far as I can say right now, vs V1:
   
  Far less treble peak than V1, very good point for me, annoying treble peaks are now gone, which makes sound much smoother on the highs with same level of details or even better. No more need to turn volume down sometimes now, what a relief. I finally can listen again to some records I found painful to hear.
  A little more focus (a small veil has been lifted).
  Slightly better tone accuracy.
  Slightly higher frequency extension both sides and a bit more details.
  Dark background, not much difference with the V1.
  Overall, a decent upgrade and a really good sound. I enjoy it.
   
  I'll report later after more burn-in but I don't think it'll change a lot as I never found huge differences before/after burn-in except for headphones.


----------



## Pacha

Just as a piece of information, for any who wish to use it with Winamp like I do (I'm used to it, you can go bit perfect with it like foobar, and I never found any difference in ABX tests between foobar and winamp using wasapi on both):
   
  adionSoft WASAPI plugin: doesn't work (V1 did)
  Maiko WASAPI plugin: works but channels reverse at each music play, and sound signature changes a lot for whatever reason (worked correctly with V1)
  KernelStreaming plugin v3.63: doesn't work
   
  With otachan ASIO plugin 0.70 and ASIO4ALL 2.10 installed:
   - VIA DirectKS ASIO device choosen in ASIO output settings: doesn't work
   - ASIO4ALL v2 choosen in ASIO output settings: OK
   
  With otachan ASIO plugin 0.71 x64 (Intel) and ASIO4ALL 2.10 installed:
  only ASIO4ALL v2 available in ASIO output settings: OK
   
  Issue now is that I can't get rid of the ASIO-related problematic gaps between tracks...


----------



## seaice

As I stated before, I have a similar experience with Foobar 1.2.2 and DI-V3 under Win7 64-bit:
   
  WASAPI output 3.2.1 doesn't work (but worked with DI-V1)
  Kernel Streaming  1.2.2 works (but didn't work well with DI-V1)
   
  > So I use Kernel Streaming instead of Wasapi in Win7 64 now.


----------



## SleepyOne

I am using my DI-V3S with Win7 64bit:
   
  1/ Foobar work fine with KS, ASIO4ALL v2, WASAPI and JPlay ASIO. Yup my VIA DirectKS ASIO also doesn't seem to work on foobar either - the sound bars graph moves but no sound;
  2/ With JPlay mini, both KS and WASAPI work just fine. I have to set buffer to 128 samples, any lower I get drop out. I guess this is pc performance dependent.


----------



## Kingwa

If the driver source folder have move or rename, the ASIO can't work .
  Release the driver source in the Driver: C and install the driver, keep it in the Driver :C .


----------



## spacejay

Quote: 





pacha said:


> I switched connectors inside the DI to have current technolgy going through RCA instead of BNC.
> This was not that easy as Audio-gd put some glue on the connectors to prevent them from unplugging during transport, but I managed to switch them.


 
  what is the difference between current technology and class technology and how much of a difference does it make?


----------



## scorpionro

I think Kingwa answers your question best here: http://www.audio-gd.com/audio/ACSS.htm


----------



## hawkhead

This is NOT the problem
   
  I have left the source folder exactly where it was:
   

   
   
  Please fix this
   
   
  Quote: 





kingwa said:


> If the driver source folder have move or rename, the ASIO can't work .
> Release the driver source in the Driver: C and install the driver, keep it in the Driver :C .


----------



## hawkhead

Some more information on the VIA ASIO issue (v1.22 drivers)
   
  The VIA ASIO control panel WILL NEVER WORK inside Foobar because the driver is looking for the wrong name - control.exe
   
  If you make a copy of VIA ASIO ControlPanel.exe and call it that control.exe it will load - but still no sound


----------



## SleepyOne

Thanks hawkhead for the inform!


----------



## Erieg

I just received my DI-V3 w/PSU yesterday. It seems to be working great but I have a question. When I switch on the PSU the blue light comes on but the light on the DI doesn't light up until I plug the USB cord into my PC. Is the light on the DI a link light or a power on indication? Before anyone asks, yes, I have the cord connecting the two boxes. My concern is that the PSU isn't actually powering the DI but instead it is getting power from the mac's usb port.


----------



## jimmychan

Quote: 





erieg said:


> I just received my DI-V3 w/PSU yesterday. It seems to be working great but I have a question. When I switch on the PSU the blue light comes on but the light on the DI doesn't light up until I plug the USB cord into my PC. Is the light on the DI a link light or a power on indication? Before anyone asks, yes, I have the cord connecting the two boxes. My concern is that the PSU isn't actually powering the DI but instead it is getting power from the mac's usb port.


 
   
  Try turn the other switch at the back of the DI. It switches the power between PSU and USB.


----------



## Erieg

Both switches are in the on postion. I guess the best question is .. is the light on the DI supposed to light up when is attached to the powered on psu but not the computer?


----------



## jimmychan

The switch has three positions.
   
  1. DC in -  The front light will up when you have a PSU connected
   
  2. Mid position - The front light will off and DI is off as well
   
  3. USB - The front light will up if you have a USB connected to a computer and the computer is on
   
  Hope this help.


----------



## Currawong

It's a power indicator light.


----------



## Erieg

Thanks Jimmychan. I will take a look at it when I get to work on Monday. I figured I was doing something wrong.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





currawong said:


> It's a power indicator light.


 
   
  But power from where?  The computers USB = bad.  Or the PSU = good


----------



## Ajwaldo

Quote: 





jimmychan said:


> Has anyone successfully connected the DI-V3 to Logitech SB Touch w/EDO? I got the info from SBT shown it was running, but no data out from the DI-V3.
> 
> Then I tried connected DI to a Mac, and it work perfectly fine with the Mac.
> 
> ...


 
  To those that have had problems with the SB touch w/EDO, I have found the problem for me was the firmware the DI-V3 was shipped with (#4?) I just replaced it with the alternate firmware (black)from the package, see the Audio GD site to get the correct orientation. Voila no problem 192khz files and all !!! Sounds Great, I will inform Kingwah so that he can pass it on to customers.
  The only thing that may disappoint some is the fact that now it is running it is in adaptive mode, But the SQ is excellent much better than the DI-V1._  _


----------



## jimmychan

Thanks Ajwaldo,
   
  The other firmware works ok for the SBT w/EDO, however it only works in adaptive mode.
   
  Not sure how is the jitter compared with the async mode? and how good is it compared with the DI-DSP version?


----------



## Pacha

If I get ir right, the firmware #4 makes the DI-V3 run in asynch mode while the #5 doesn't?
  So #4 should be better as asynch is theoritically better, right?


----------



## colour97

i have problem with flac. i am using di-v3 to connect to ref-1 and yulong d18. can get sound of flac 16 bit/44.1 but once the file is 24/96 and 24/192, it is silent as dead.
   
  wave of 16/44.1 , 24/96 and 24/192 is ok.  
   
  any solution would be highly appreciated.
   
  thank you.
   
  remark: the problem happens when  i am using synology diskstation as source.
  when i used notebook (win 7) with foobar 2000 as source, no problem at all.


----------



## Ajwaldo

Quote: 





jimmychan said:


> Thanks Ajwaldo,
> 
> The other firmware works ok for the SBT w/EDO, however it only works in adaptive mode.
> 
> Not sure how is the jitter compared with the async mode? and how good is it compared with the DI-DSP version?


 
  Well I wish I could compare it with the async mode of the #4 firmware, but the DAC would not read it, BTW on the SB Touch when I was trying to run the #4 firmware said it was running async and a signal of 48khz???? that maybe points to the issue.
  As for the DI-DSP I do not have that version just the 1 and 3.
  All I can say is that it is better than the DI-V1 and the V3 it is not burnt in yet.


----------



## Ajwaldo

Quote: 





pacha said:


> If I get ir right, the firmware #4 makes the DI-V3 run in asynch mode while the #5 doesn't?
> So #4 should be better as asynch is theoritically better, right?


 
  Theoretically yes but for me #4 doesn't provide a lockable signal, #5 (black?) does the business but in adaptive. I will email Audio-Gd to see if they can soon provide suitable firmware that will run async.


----------



## jimmychan

Thanks, Now we have some insight to the issue.


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  From either, when the unit is switched on. Same as any regular device.


----------



## seaice

Quote: 





erieg said:


> I just received my DI-V3 w/PSU yesterday. It seems to be working great but I have a question. When I switch on the PSU the blue light comes on but the light on the DI doesn't light up until I plug the USB cord into my PC. Is the light on the DI a link light or a power on indication? Before anyone asks, yes, I have the cord connecting the two boxes. My concern is that the PSU isn't actually powering the DI but instead it is getting power from the mac's usb port.


 

 I have tried the following experiment with my DI-V3 and DI-PSU:
   
*Prerequisites:* USB cable unplugged, DI-V3 connected to the DI-PSU only.
*Experiment/result: *When I switch the DI-PSU on, the blue light on the DI-V3 unit lights up. (Note that the USB cable is not connected.)
   
  Hope this helps.


----------



## Erieg

Thanks for the help. I figured I was being dense. The psu is working great.


----------



## Pacha

colour97 said:


> i have problem with flac. i am using di-v3 to connect to ref-1 and yulong d18. can get sound of flac 16 bit/44.1 but once the file is 24/96 and 24/192, it is silent as dead.
> 
> wave of 16/44.1 , 24/96 and 24/192 is ok.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Are you using KS for playback?
  If yes, try to apply this procedure (go down to Driver V1.22 Install guide):
  http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USB32/USB32EN.htm
   
  ASIO4ALL + ASIO plugin for your media player should do the trick I suppose.


----------



## realmassy

I'm posting here, although the question is related to the USB32 in the NFB7 (which I should receive next week): is the USB powered by the PC, or is it using the power in the DAC?


----------



## kr0gg

i guess it should be powered by DAC.
  for example, Kingwa said that when DI-v3 is used with a PSU, it is completely powered from it.


----------



## colour97

Quote: 





pacha said:


> Are you using KS for playback?
> If yes, try to apply this procedure (go down to Driver V1.22 Install guide):
> http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USB32/USB32EN.htm
> 
> ASIO4ALL + ASIO plugin for your media player should do the trick I suppose.


 
  no, not using ks for playback, i am using synology(linux)  in which no need to install driver. thank you.


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> i guess it should be powered by DAC.
> for example, Kingwa said that when DI-v3 is used with a PSU, it is completely powered from it.


 
  That would make sense, I really hope that's the case.


----------



## Meloncoly

Can anyone help me out? I must have really bad luck. I bought the DI-DSP a while ago and sold it because it would not connect to my desktop properly. I thought that by the time the DI-V3 was out, that the drivers would be fixed. Just received it today and cannot get it running. My computer BSODs anytime I try to follow the instructions on the audio-gd website. 
   
  I installed the driver (v1.22), and it didn't tell me that anything failed on the log. So I restarted the computer, and the computer does see the DI-V3, but I can't set up ASIO nor can I use WASAPI or any other output device. When I try to follow the instructions for ASIO, I get this error message when I select VIA DirectKS ASIO as the driver in foobar's ASIO Virtual Device Editor: "An error occured while querying "VIA DirectKS ASIO driver. Please stop ASIO playback and shut down any other software using ASIO. Additional info: Initializing ASIO driver failed." Nothing plays through WASAPI and KS. If I set it to Speaker, it crashes foobar or my computer. 
   
  I'm on Win7 x64 plugged into a USB 3.0 port. My motherboard does not have USB2 ports. Thanks in advance.


----------



## jimmychan

make sure you plug the DIV3 to the USB before install the driver.


----------



## Meloncoly

An update to my situation:
   
  After raging for about two hours trying to get it to work, having tested that it works on every computer I have except my desktop, I reformatted the desktop. When I installed it this time, everything went well, BUT it still could not play music. The only difference between my other computers and my desktop is that the USB ports were USB 2.0, so I had to get some USB 2.0 ports on my desktop. I didn't have a USB 2.0 hub or USB 2.0 header around, but I remembered that my Das keyboard had two USB ports, and luckily, it acted as a USB 2.0 hub. Plugged the DI-V3 into that and everything works perfectly now. Wasted sooo much time on this but I am so relieved that it's working now. Just a heads up if anyone else has issues installing the DI-V3.


----------



## realmassy

realmassy said:


> That would make sense, I really hope that's the case.



I quote myself to confirm the NFB7.32 is not powered by the PC. I'm using a dual conduit usb cable, and I can disconnect the power end, leaving only the data connected.


----------



## JecklinStax

I'm really sorry to read about so much computer/software/usb troubles in connection with the DI V3. On a more positive note: I received my DI V3 last Monday, and it truly sings. It is going to stay. The V3 is my first DI. Setup:
 SBT Touch + usb harddisk + upgraded PSU, Samsung PVR, Pioneer LX 55 (blu ray, DVD, sacd) --> Inday digital source selector --> DI V3 --> Audio GD Ref 7.
 Connections/cables: usb harddisk to SBT; Blu ray: HDMI + 'de-embedder' to Toslink; DI to DAC: BNC, and for the rest: SPDIF coax or Toslink.
 Improvements via all sources after insertion of DI in the chain: better transparency and detail, gentler treble, more precise stereo imaging and (cliché!) 'blacker' background. Don't worry about a possible negative contribution of the source selector: there isn't any (no audible difference with or without it). 
 Thanks, King Wa.


----------



## jimmychan

Hi JecklinStax
   
   
  Which DI-V3 firmware are you running with the SBT? I can only running the DI-V3 with the Async. mode firmware. That is not the default one.


----------



## kr0gg

guys, can you please say which firmware is green and which one is black? which is async and which is not?
  i couldn't find any info on firmware numbers and their difference. seems like Kingwa removed it from the site.


----------



## JecklinStax

I don't know...
 I just ordered a DI V3 (with TCXO) and hooked it up. I just use the coax input on the DI, no usb connection, so I thought the firmware version was irrelevant.
 I repeat: this thing sounds fantastic!


----------



## kr0gg

uhm. i think that if you're not using USB there was no need for upgraded TCXO
  it's clocking the USB input only


----------



## blitzxgene

Quote: 





jecklinstax said:


> I don't know...
> I just ordered a DI V3 (with TCXO) and hooked it up. I just use the coax input on the DI, no usb connection, so I thought the firmware version was irrelevant.
> I repeat: this thing sounds fantastic!


 
   
  You might want to use the usb input, as that is what the TCXO upgrade helps. From my impressions from the DI-V3 built into my Ref 10: usb has better separation of instruments, better tone (although the sound becomes less relaxed and more crystalline) and more meat on the bones. This is all compared to the coax input.


----------



## JecklinStax

I guess I can survive a US 20 mistake. But now I'll hook up my pc to the DI too, via usb, to enjoy full profit!
 Still, I wonder how this thing works. On the Audio GD website the photo of the insides of the V3 shows just one clock (with the TCXO shown in a photo insert), and King Wa wrote next to it:  "In the DI-V3 had one clock can be upgrade, upgrade to TCXO price +USD20."
 If this one clock helps to de-jitter the usb input, how then does this DI go about de-jittering the coax input? Removing jitter is the correction of timing errors. That is the main job of a digital interface. Can you do that without an accurate reference clock?


----------



## kr0gg

funny thing is that that clock is only for usb-protocol receiving.
  it has nothing to do with the PCM audio-stream and its jitter


----------



## Kingwa

The clock in the DI-V3 is working for USB and coaxial both.


----------



## hawkhead

Kinwga
   
  any news on fixing the broken ASIO drivers?


----------



## Ajwaldo

Green Is adaptive Firmware (#5 I think) Black is async (#4 as shipped), Max input on SPDIF is 96Khz on DI-V3. USB is 192Khz-384Khz.


----------



## Ajwaldo

Quote: 





jecklinstax said:


> I don't know...
> I just ordered a DI V3 (with TCXO) and hooked it up. I just use the coax input on the DI, no usb connection, so I thought the firmware version was irrelevant.
> I repeat: this thing sounds fantastic!


 
  I would be interested to see if you can connect using the USB with the EDO software in your SBT, I dont think I have seen anybody in the forums that has managed that yet, if there is I would love to know how you do it. As I have said previously I am using the green Firmware (#5) from the shipped pack, to run the SBT via USB can run the 192Khz files but only in adaptive mode. You wont be able to run above 96Khz using SPDIF.


----------



## rdaneel

And that is why I gave up on the DI-V3 and went with Plastic Fantastic (a Micromega MYDAC) - I knew it would work perfectly with EDO.  I really hope they get the EDO issues worked out because it is a good looking product...


----------



## kr0gg

i think i've got a problem.
  i've just opened my DI v3 and there's a green firmware.
  the second firmware which came with it is also green.so
  so i've got two of green and none of black (


----------



## JecklinStax

I would, but I can't. My very few 192 kHz files are on a usb hard drive that occupies the only usb connection on the SBT. And, though I have EDO, my SBT does not play 192 on coax either. I don't mind that very much, because the Ref 7 doesn't go higher dan 24/96 anyway (it plays 192, but downsamples tot 96). With the Ref 7 / DI V3 combination I am astounded how good 16/44,1 WAV files can be, let alone 24/96 FLAC.


----------



## Pacha

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> i think i've got a problem.
> i've just opened my DI v3 and there's a green firmware.
> the second firmware which came with it is also green.so
> so i've got two of green and none of black (


 
   
  So do I. I have green firware by default and received green as second firmware.
  Is the black asynch and green adaptative?
  If some here tried both, could you please report what real differences you found about sound signature?


----------



## kr0gg

i've downloaded the firmware tool and installed the firmware #4 from it 
  don't know which firmware was on the chips i've received, but none of them matched #4 filesize


----------



## Ajwaldo

Quote: 





ajwaldo said:


> Green Is adaptive Firmware (#5 I think) Black is async (#4 as shipped), Max input on SPDIF is 96Khz on DI-V3. USB is 192Khz-384Khz.


 
  OOOppps...I put you wrong the #4 as shipped is as pictured is green or no mark in top left corner, oriented the way it faces the new VT 
   
  chip, the adaptive #5 has a black dot on the solder in this same corner (note the 3 lines they face the new VT chip)


----------



## customNuts

Whats the consensus on the additional psu? From the people who have heard it, is it worth the extra cash??


----------



## Pacha

I didn't tried PSU vs no PSU on the V3, but it was a nice improvement for my V1, worth the upgrade considering the price.


----------



## JuicyBruce

I upgraded from V2 to V3 using the original V2 PSU. There was a bit of soldering involved to get it to play with the V3 (Kingwa sent a resistor) but I would pretty much say its essential.


----------



## Anda

How does the V3 run on Linux? Has anyone compared it to an XMOS based device. I don't know if I should get an Aqvox for my Hiface2 or sell the Hiface2 and get a V3+PSU


----------



## preproman

So how is the I2S used on this, what cable is used and where does it plug into?  Is there a I2S pin out and an RJ45 jack?  I don't see where I2S is used?


----------



## Pacha

You have to ask for it when you place the order. You'll have the I2S output at the back of the DI, which you can use to connect the DI to your I2S input at the back of a Ref7.1 or something like that.
  Apparently, you can also have I2S input for the DI.


----------



## Clemmaster

I think there's a header inside all the DI-V3 for I2S. You have to run it top-less though so adding the RJ45 on the back is preferred.


----------



## customNuts

Quote: 





juicybruce said:


> I upgraded from V2 to V3 using the original V2 PSU. There was a bit of soldering involved to get it to play with the V3 (Kingwa sent a resistor) but I would pretty much say its essential.


 
  Thanks for the input guys. 
  So your saying it's an instantly recognisable upgrade??


----------



## kr0gg

considering the price of DI-v3, the PSU has much lesser impact than the DI itself.
  but comparing to the usual $500-$1000 usb-converter price bracket, the PSU is quite a good tweak well worth its price.
   
  anyway, i should add that buying a Li-ion battery pack with separate charger (around $50) gives a little better results, though it's quite a pain to keep in mind charging it (a 5200mAh battery holds for around 6 hours).


----------



## JuicyBruce

The better power supply made a world of difference in my case which goes against another belief I had about digital audio.
  The Li-ion battery i ordered arrived today ( [size=small]http://r.ebay.com/SZQKnC ). If you are interested this one comes with the correct sized plug for the DI[/size]
  [size=small]I didnt notice a difference between this and the PSU to be honest which is a nod to the PSU I guess.[/size]
   
  [size=small]**edit[/size]
  Something I did notice though using the PSU (which I am experiencing now) - after about 6 hours of being powered on my system starts to sound "hard" and unnatural which I did not detect using USB power. I just switched to battery and the sound did not change for the better. 
  'Spose I need to power off the DAC while I have my lunch in future....


----------



## kr0gg

i've got the same battery
  got same observations about "hard" sounding. but i thought it was related to battery depletion and voltage drop.
  it seems that i was wrong


----------



## icecap

Quote: 





customnuts said:


> Thanks for the input guys.
> So your saying it's an instantly recognisable upgrade??


 
   
  yes, I would love to hear answers to this as well for the difference between V2 and V3.. thanks!


----------



## kr0gg

i've sold my DIv2 before getting Div3 because i was expecting it to be superior.
  now, after i have the v3, i'm not sure that it's better. in fact, it seems that i enjoyed the di-dsp more.
  not sure, though.
   
  what i'm sure of is that in no way would i call the DIv3 significantly better.


----------



## Tom W

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> i've sold my DIv2 before getting Div3 because i was expecting it to be superior.
> now, after i have the v3, i'm not sure that it's better. in fact, it seems that i enjoyed the di-dsp more.
> not sure, though.
> 
> what i'm sure of is that in no way would i call the DIv3 significantly better.


 
   
  Were you using upsampling with the V2?
   
  Are most of your files 44.1/16 or 96/24?


----------



## kr0gg

i'm talking about un-upsampled DI-dsp (but, yes, i even had a Tentlabs XO for upsampling which gave the DI another level of SQ)
  about 1/3 of my music is in 24/96


----------



## icecap

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> i've sold my DIv2 before getting Div3 because i was expecting it to be superior.
> now, after i have the v3, i'm not sure that it's better. in fact, it seems that i enjoyed the di-dsp more.
> not sure, though.
> 
> what i'm sure of is that in no way would i call the DIv3 significantly better.


 
   
  sorry to hear that, kr0gg.. but definitely your input in comparison between these 2 versions are important.. thanks..
   
  hope to hear from more of those who had both experiences..


----------



## Frank Sol

Once my software issue was resolved with the DIv2 I've been very happy with it.


----------



## kr0gg

i should add that i play music strictly through a dual-pc Jplay setup.
  i have  a guess that DI-v3 could give MUCH better results if it would be possible to set its buffer lower than 256.
  for example, in my setup DI-dsp easily worked with a buffer of 1 and 2
   
  Kinwgwa said that he would contact VIA with such a request, but i highly doubt he will actually do it


----------



## Mr G

I've just received my DI-V3S. I'm unable to install the driver on my win 7 computer. I've tried it on 2 computers and I keep getting the same error message at the end. I've followed all the steps and even used the supplied USB cable. I've written to Audio gd. Any help would be appreciated. Tks. 

****SETUP LOG INITATED +DATE+3-15-2013+TIME+21:34:49
SETUP LOG: DATE 3-15-2013 TIME 21:34:51
Installed components :
None

Fail to Installed components :
Audio-gd USB Device Ver1.0


----------



## Kingwa

If users use the table computer, must connect the USB port on rear , don't connect the front USB ports .
  Especial the DI with USB power supply.


----------



## Mr G

I am using a laptop and I've tried all available USB ports, stock USB cable and other USB cables with no success. Laptop device manager does not even show the presence of the device. The blue led light is on, i.e. there is power. No luck so far.


----------



## ninjikiran

Quote: 





mr g said:


> I've just received my DI-V3S. I'm unable to install the driver on my win 7 computer. I've tried it on 2 computers and I keep getting the same error message at the end. I've followed all the steps and even used the supplied USB cable. I've written to Audio gd. Any help would be appreciated. Tks.
> 
> ****SETUP LOG INITATED +DATE+3-15-2013+TIME+21:34:49
> SETUP LOG: DATE 3-15-2013 TIME 21:34:51
> ...


 

 same issue with me, finally worked for me.  Doesn't work over USB3 ports and some USB2 ports on Mobo.
   
  Didnt do anything special, kept the unit powered and kept playing with the ports till the thing installed.


----------



## Gavin Ly

Quote: 





mr g said:


> I've just received my DI-V3S. I'm unable to install the driver on my win 7 computer. I've tried it on 2 computers and I keep getting the same error message at the end. I've followed all the steps and even used the supplied USB cable. I've written to Audio gd. Any help would be appreciated. Tks.
> 
> ****SETUP LOG INITATED +DATE+3-15-2013+TIME+21:34:49
> SETUP LOG: DATE 3-15-2013 TIME 21:34:51
> ...


 

  I had the same issue too. But after turning off the firewall of the computer, the software was installed successfully immediately. Hope this helps!


----------



## Mr G

Thanks. I've shipped it back. I hope that it is sorted out. 

By the way, when you connect the DI to the computer, do you see it under the device manager, which indicates all connected devices. I did not see it at all, which is kind of strange for hardware with USB connection.


----------



## rictee

I have had the v3 for over a week now. I plugged it in for the first few days and thought it sounded better than the DI-DSP (I had it on 96khz upsampling).
   
  However after some direct comparison over a few tracks, I'm wasn't too sure. The most obvious observation I found was that the DI-DSP sounded more enjoyable... just that _little_ bit more. It had a very analogue like sound with a tad more low end impact.
   
  The v3 on the other hand sounded CLEAN and more 3 dimensional. Vocals pop out more with nice clarity and realism - yes I have to say realism is its best attribute. Instruments were very well placed. Bass had less impact but was tighter.
   
  I felt the DI-DSP was not as good at instrumental separation and at times was confusing and sounded "flat". Most of my listening was on my Focal monitors so I appreciate, what is in my opinion, the improvements that v3 brings.


----------



## rdsu

I have DI-V3, and the drivers on Windows 8 64bit Pro seems to not working very well...
   
  Using JRiver or foobar2000 I can't use ASIO, just Kernel Streaming and WASAPI Event Style, but always have a click from the DAC on stop the track.
  To use ASIO I've to install ASIO4ALL.
   
  At Audio-gd USB32 website Windows 8 seems to not be supported, just Windows XP, Vista and 7 (32bit and 64bit).


----------



## Meloncoly

mr g said:


> Thanks. I've shipped it back. I hope that it is sorted out.
> 
> By the way, when you connect the DI to the computer, do you see it under the device manager, which indicates all connected devices. I did not see it at all, which is kind of strange for hardware with USB connection.




 I had the exact same issue as you. Initially I was using usb3 ports because that's all I had. I then swapped to a usb2 hub and it still didn't work. I had the same problem where it didn't show up in device manager. I reformatted my computer in the end, which was easy for me to do, and it finally worked on a fresh install. It's funny because it worked just fine installing it on my Lenovo X220 but not my desktop. Not sure if reformatting is the best option but definitely try a usb2 hub and play around with the usb ports until it takes.


----------



## ninjikiran

Event style is supposedly better anyway.  ASIO works for me, but can be a bit finicky at times in picking up and locking the audio signal or releasing it. WASAPI imo is best for simplicity and doing exactly what it should do. really no difference in sound between both modes
   
  On a side note, the direct sound route is  REALLY good.  Especially in windows 8, running off of pandora radio I forget I am not listening to uncompressed flac through WASAPI.  Really, I am hard pressed to detect any differences when listening to any music through DS but still prefer WASAPI  since it locks the audio signal nicely and ensures nothing will bother me or mix into the stream.


----------



## ciphercomplete

I prefer Kernel Streaming to all modes.  I started off using event style but I found it to be a bit tipped up on the top end and light in the bass.  Detail wise, KS did everything event style does without those issue.  My interest is piqued though as I have not used event style in over a month, I am going to switch back over tonight and see if thats still my opinion.  FWIW, Kingwa recommends ASIO or KS over other modes.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote: 





rdsu said:


> I have DI-V3, and the drivers on Windows 8 64bit Pro seems to not working very well...
> 
> Using JRiver or foobar2000 I can't use ASIO, just Kernel Streaming and WASAPI Event Style, but always have a click from the DAC on stop the track.
> To use ASIO I've to install ASIO4ALL.
> ...


 
   
  Do you get a error message when you try to use ASIO in JRiver?  If so what does it say?


----------



## genclaymore

Quote: 





rdsu said:


> I have DI-V3, and the drivers on Windows 8 64bit Pro seems to not working very well...
> 
> Using JRiver or foobar2000 I can't use ASIO, just Kernel Streaming and WASAPI Event Style, but always have a click from the DAC on stop the track.
> To use ASIO I've to install ASIO4ALL.
> ...


 
  The USB-32 drivers worked for me in windows 8 along with ASIO, But I found some players give issues when you go to use asio, or kernel steaming for that matter, where other players work just fine with either one.


----------



## Miab

It seems the DI-V3 has been taken off the Audio-GD site.? Is it not possible to order this anymore? Maybe they have taken it down until they sort the driver issue's they're having.


----------



## hawkhead

Quote: 





genclaymore said:


> The USB-32 drivers worked for me in windows 8 along with ASIO, But I found some players give issues when you go to use asio, or kernel steaming for that matter, where other players work just fine with either one.


 
   
  Really ?- just to clarify you managed to use the VIA ASIO driver ?


----------



## genclaymore

Quote: 





hawkhead said:


> Really ?- just to clarify you managed to use the VIA ASIO driver ?


 
  Yea, I was able to use it in FL studio in windows 8 pro.  Also I forgot which media player I used that it worked with it, I think it was foobar 2k, because i tried a couple.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote: 





miab said:


> It seems the DI-V3 has been taken off the Audio-GD site.? Is it not possible to order this anymore? Maybe they have taken it down until they sort the driver issue's they're having.


 
   
  They took the sledgehammer approach.  It was pretty clear on their website that the drivers were for Windows XP - 7 (32-64 bit).  From my understanding the VIA driver works well in Windows 8 for all audio modes except ASIO.  VIA simply has not made a VT1731 Chip driver specifically for Windows 8 yet. http://www.via.com.tw/en/support/drivers.jsp.  Some of us can probably get lucky with it if we experiment with it enough but its not universal plug and play by any measure.  
   
  That said, ASIO mode won't sound any better than Event Style or Kernel Streaming for those of us that have standalone music servers.  Folks who use their PC as a server and listen to music while they work on the same computer are the ones who probably need it but you will probably be just a well off using KS.  
   
  Before I built my server I had ASIO running on my personal computer with Windows 7 (64 bit).  I have not l really tried to run it on my server (windows 8 - 64bit) as I have been slowly working my way through the different modes trying to discern a difference.  Contrary to my prior opinion I have not noticed any difference between KS and Event style.  I will try to get ASIO running today just to see if I can.  I'll see if I can run it in XP or Vista compatibility mode.


----------



## realmassy

I don't own the digital interface but a dac with the USB32: i have no problem at all running the drivers with ASIO on Windows 8. I'm actually using Windows 2012 server!! I've also tried them on the same pc, but using XP: again everything works perfectly. Windows 8 sounds better though, either KS or ASIO.


----------



## hawkhead

Can those that got VIA ASIO working post some screenshots of the control panel loaded
   
  The driver is actually looking for the wrong executable


----------



## preproman

I hope Kingwa comes on here and tell us what's up with the DI V3.  I was just about to pull the trigger on it.  What's going on?


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote: 





hawkhead said:


> Can those that got VIA ASIO working post some screenshots of the control panel loaded
> 
> The driver is actually looking for the wrong executable


 
  Yeah, I couldn't get mine to work with ASIO and I think you have the problem pegged correctly.  When I try to open the VIA control panel from inside J River it tells me that there is no control panel program.  If I knew the name of the executable it was looking for I would just change the name of the exe file just to see if that would get it to work.


----------



## hawkhead

The driver is looking for control.exe
   
  So if you rename what you have in the installation directory it will load
   
  but I still got no sound (and no error messages) even though Foobar was "playing".
   
  KS, WASAPI, DS, ASIO4ALL all work
   

   
   
  (Windows 8 Pro 64bit)
   
   
   
  Quote: 





ciphercomplete said:


> Yeah, I couldn't get mine to work with ASIO and I think you have the problem pegged correctly.  When I try to open the VIA control panel from inside J River it tells me that there is no control panel program.  If I knew the name of the executable it was looking for I would just change the name of the exe file just to see if that would get it to work.


----------



## kr0gg

it seems to me that the problem is that Audio-gd ASIO driver is 32-bit only.
  (got the same problem on my win8/64)


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> it seems to me that the problem is that Audio-gd ASIO driver is 32-bit only.
> (got the same problem on my win8/64)


 
  I ran J-River with a option to show ASIO startup messages/errors late last night.  When I try to use ASIO, J-River gives a error message (going from memory here) that says something to the effect of "hardware is not compatible with with 44.1 khz 64bit bitrate..."  I  have all my audio settings at 32 bit bitrate max.  Maybe they could simply rewrite the driver to not automatically set it self to the highest bitrate available on a particular system and limit it to 32 bit max or like you said make a 64 bit driver that works so we can get in there and change settings manually.


----------



## kr0gg

bitrate has nothing to do with OS acrhitecture


----------



## ciphercomplete

Of course but there is some reason the ASIO driver is setting the default bitrate to 64 bit when the USB chip its written for won't even accept 64 bit input.  Maybe someone took a programming shortcut which isn't a problem if the driver control panel can be opened and settings changed manually or maybe Windows 8 just does not fully understand the driver.  Either way the solution could be as simple as programming in a 32 bit limit for bitrate.  I guess I want to see the code lol.  Not that it will do me any good but I like a good mystery.


----------



## ktm777

Quote: 





ciphercomplete said:


> I ran J-River with a option to show ASIO startup messages/errors late last night.  When I try to use ASIO, J-River gives a error message (going from memory here) that says something to the effect of "hardware is not compatible with with 44.1 khz 64bit bitrate..."  I  have all my audio settings at 32 bit bitrate max.  Maybe they could simply rewrite the driver to not automatically set it self to the highest bitrate available on a particular system and limit it to 32 bit max or like you said make a 64 bit driver that works so we can get in there and change settings manually.


 
  I have the same "44.1 kHz 64bit bitrate" problem.  Also couldn't force SBT to work with SBT+EDO using USB output even with #3 firmware working in adaptative mode (even with HUB). Bit disapoitment  but at least works ok with SBT+EDO by coax and works ok with PC.


----------



## jimmychan

Quote: 





ktm777 said:


> I have the same "44.1 kHz 64bit bitrate" problem.  Also couldn't force SBT to work with SBT+EDO using USB output even with #3 firmware working in adaptative mode (even with HUB). Bit disapoitment  but at least works ok with SBT+EDO by coax and works ok with PC.


 
   
  The DI-V3 should work with SBT-EDO  in adaptive mode.


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





jimmychan said:


> The DI-V3 should work with SBT-EDO  in adaptive mode.


 
   
  Does anybody know why it does not work properly in async mode? On the EDO compatibility list, the async mode is reported working but I could not get it to work on my NFB-27. The sound was choppy. The adaptive works like a charm.
   
  My new Concero DAC does not work at all with the SBT. It is also async and everything is reported fine in the status of EDO, yet, no sound.


----------



## ktm777

Quote: 





jimmychan said:


> The DI-V3 should work with SBT-EDO  in adaptive mode.


 
  Yes, it should. But it doesn't work. I've tried many times before contacting Audio-GD support, they confirmed, that sometimes it happens. They also said, it doesn't matter wchich SBT output I w would use (USB/COAXIAL) as DI-V3 has internal buffer and will reclock signal before sending it to DAC. As I don't own Hi-res files (mostly ripped CD's) and will in future use my laptop - I can accept it.


----------



## jimmychan

Quote: 





clemmaster said:


> Does anybody know why it does not work properly in async mode? On the EDO compatibility list, the async mode is reported working but I could not get it to work on my NFB-27. The sound was choppy. The adaptive works like a charm.
> 
> My new Concero DAC does not work at all with the SBT. It is also async and everything is reported fine in the status of EDO, yet, no sound.


 
   
  My SBT-EDO is also not work in Async mode. Hope some fixes soon..


----------



## Kingwa

Hi all, we are cooperating with VIA engineers to test with USB3.0 and WIN8. They report that they have tested on some PCs and do not have not any problems yet.
  If you have experienced an issue with USB3.0 or Win8, please send a report to us, audio-gd@126.com
  The email title: Report of USB3.0 (or Win8)
  Include the below information:
  1. Computer model (brand, CPU, memory)
  2. USB type (2.0 or 3.0)
  3. Operating system (Win7, Win8, or other) (32 or 64bit)
  4. The issues you are having.
   
  If you are using a tablet computer, please connect the device to the rear USB port. The front USB ports usually have the worst performance and may not work well.
   
  If you have issue on Linux, please send email and tell us the Linux gear model and the Linux version as we like to buy the same model to test with. The VIA engineers informed us that the VIA chip only supports Linux on X86 chipsets and not on ARM chipsets.
   
  Thanks all for your help and advice.


----------



## seaice

I would like to see drivers for Android operating system 4.1 and higher. Is that possible?


----------



## carloica

Hello everybody and thank you in advance...any questions for you about the d-vi3 transport (kingwa told me to ask for it on the forum).
  Is the transport easily working with Jriver-Jplay on WIN8?
  Did anyone compare it with the john kenny spdif3 transport?
  Thank you!


----------



## kr0gg

it works in Jplay-win8, but you cannot use buffer lower than 256 (that means that you can't use xstream engine)


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> it works in Jplay-win8, but* you cannot use buffer lower than 256* (that means that you can't use xstream engine)


 
   
  Is this a limitation on Win8 only?


----------



## kr0gg

that's a limitation of DI v3. (behaves the same in Win7 - i've tried)
  i've got a really powerful audioPC in my dualPC setup (xeon e1230, 8gb ram@7-7-7-20) and at buffer 128 i get hiccups. at 64 there's no sound at all.
  for example, DI-DSP worked in Directlink nicely


----------



## Clemmaster

What's the unit? Samples? ms?


----------



## kr0gg

samples in Jplay


----------



## ktm777

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> that's a limitation of DI v3. (behaves the same in Win7 - i've tried)
> i've got a really powerful audioPC in my dualPC setup (xeon e1230, 8gb ram@7-7-7-20) and at buffer 128 i get hiccups. at 64 there's no sound at all.
> for example, DI-DSP worked in Directlink nicely


 
  So, DI-V3 seams to be a step back comparing to DI-DSP? I'm curious, why Kingwa does not make any serious tests of his products before releasing them? Hi's sending people to ask forum about their problems. It's not the DIY product ((  But at least  it's money saving - you don't need to spend them on JPlay


----------



## Clemmaster

There's much more than just the buffer size at play. Pretty much every one who tried both said the V3 was better or, in the worst case, just as good.

It's cheaper and has (much) better drivers.
It was a nice move from kingwa to find an alternative to the tenor chip, a better one at that. The Conductor users would have appreciated Burson did the same


----------



## rdsu

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> that's a limitation of DI v3. (behaves the same in Win7 - i've tried)
> i've got a really powerful audioPC in my dualPC setup (xeon e1230, 8gb ram@7-7-7-20) and at buffer 128 i get hiccups. at 64 there's no sound at all.
> for example, DI-DSP worked in Directlink nicely


 

 That is using ASIO? Did you tried KS ou WASAPI?


----------



## kr0gg

that's using KS
  i've made a mistake though. i listen at 128 buffers, not 256
   
  doesn't save the day anyway, since Xtream engine works only on buffers up to 32


----------



## rdsu

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> that's using KS
> i've made a mistake though. i listen at 128 buffers, not 256
> 
> doesn't save the day anyway, since Xtream engine works only on buffers up to 32


 

 With WASAPI is the same?
   
  Maybe some new driver version could improve this...


----------



## kr0gg

i don't use WASAPI - it's by nature inferior to KS


----------



## rdsu

kr0gg said:


> i don't use WASAPI - it's by nature inferior to KS



Why you say that?

JRiver devs have a different opinion:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Output_Modes


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote: 





rdsu said:


> Why you say that?
> 
> JRiver devs have a different opinion:
> http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Output_Modes


 
  I don't think that J-River page is an opinion of the quality of Kernel Streaming versus other modes.  Kernel streaming does not always work while wasapi has become the most stable output mode.  Under normal conditions there is really no difference in sound quality between event style and KS so J-river recommends the former because its more stable.  I think Wasapi may be more prone to hardware interrupts than KS though so KS is better for people who work on the same computers they store their music on.  I have a dedicated server that does nothing but play music so I can't tell any difference between the two.


----------



## rdsu

Ok, but what I want to know is if we can use DI-V3 with lower buffer using WASAPI...


----------



## ciphercomplete

How low are you talking?  I don't see why you couldn't, you will just run into the same problems as anyone else if the buffer gets too low, then you can just nudge it up until the problems dissipate.  It really depends on your individual computer so trial and error is the only way to find out how small of a buffer you can use.


----------



## kr0gg

can you please name at least 1 (one) Di-v3 user which was able to use it a buffer 32 and lower in Jplay?
   
   
  i've talked to a lot of Jplay+div3 users and none of them could
   
  i wouldn't say that the reason is in specific PCs. on the same PC i was able to use the DI-DSP (te8802 based) in Directlink.
  and, yes, te8802 is considered a trouble-maker because it needs more a powerful PC than any other in the market


----------



## rdsu

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> can you please name at least 1 (one) Di-v3 user which was able to use it a buffer 32 and lower in Jplay?
> 
> 
> i've talked to a lot of Jplay+div3 users and none of them could
> ...


 

 You answered my question!
   
  Thanks


----------



## ciphercomplete

I didn't realize we were talking about J-Play.  I must have missed a post or two.


----------



## rdsu

Quote: 





ciphercomplete said:


> I didn't realize we were talking about J-Play.  I must have missed a post or two.


 

 Yes, I wanted to know if someone used DI-V3 and JPlay with a lower buffer, using WASAPI.
  But it seems not possible...


----------



## drez

ciphercomplete said:


> I don't think that J-River page is an opinion of the quality of Kernel Streaming versus other modes.  Kernel streaming does not always work while wasapi has become the most stable output mode.  Under normal conditions there is really no difference in sound quality between event style and KS so J-river recommends the former because its more stable.  I think Wasapi may be more prone to hardware interrupts than KS though so KS is better for people who work on the same computers they store their music on.  I have a dedicated server that does nothing but play music so I can't tell any difference between the two.




I havent had any issues with KS, strangely event mode WASAPI gave me issues with one of my transports. Timer mode wasapi is rock solid though. I think SQ of hese depends more on implementation of the player. I have heard event mode wasapi sound better on one player than KS on another. If you cant hear a difference I would chose whichever is most stable on your system.


----------



## rdsu

About Windows 8 64bits, USB 3.0(Renesas/NEC - µPD72020) and driver issues:
   

 USB3.0: I have to also restart DI when restart Windows. This didn't happen with USB2.0.
 ASIO worked fine first time, but then I can't get any should while track is running...
 JRiver 18: Can use KS and WASAPI - Event Style with lowest buffer without issues.
 JPLAY 5.1: KS with Buffers (128 Samples@44.1kHz, 256 Samples@96kHz, 512 Samples@192kHz), and WASAPI with Buffers (DirectLink@44.1kHz, DirectLink@96kHz, 4 Samples@192kHz)
   
  The DI driver should be improved to work with Windows 8 64bits, and to handle less samples with KS in JPLAY (1 Sample = DirectLink).
  The best setting should be 1 Sample / 44100 Hz = 0.00002ms.
   
  At registry, I don't see the "VIA ASIO Driver" entry for 64bits [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\ASIO], but it's on 32bits [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\ASIO]
   
  Kingwa, If I can help with some drivers tests... (I already sent you an email about this)


----------



## SwanSong

kingwa said:


> The spare firmware is the #5 for replace the default #4 in the DI-V3,  consider slight on the warmer sound flavor and have not I2S output , the #5 working with the V1.1 driver under windows, have not driver install necessary under mac and Linux.



I am using:
MacBook Pro i7 OS 10.7.5 via Pure Music.  
My dac is Grant Fidelity TD-11  24/96 USB -24/192 SPDIF.

I need help with driver compatibility issues I've read regarding firmware #.

I'm interested in:
DI -V3s. (USB input only)
TCXO upgrade
DI -PSU

firmware #5-- Is it warmer sounding than #4?

Which firmware will be asynchronous with my system?

Will I need and special drivers for 24/192 output via USB?

I would also appreciate help from others that have insight in this area!


----------



## SwanSong

pacha said:


> I personally let my PSU for DI-V1 on all the time, and I didn't have any trouble with it for the last past two years, so I think you can do the same with the V3.




What power cable comes with the PSU? Is it upgradable with the standard plug type I forgot the name? Or is it even advisable to try for a cleaner power source?

Also how would you compare the V3 with PSU vs JK-SPDIF MKlll???


----------



## SwanSong

seaice said:


> My direct ABing was rather short and just FYI: I had the DI-V1 with the TCXO upgrade and have the DI-V3 with the TCXO upgrade as well...
> 
> At the moment, I can provide a little bit more experience after ca 25 hours with the DI-V3:
> 
> ...




Thanks for the review, I'm thinking about ordering one also. Regarding brightness I read firmware #5 provides additional warmth without sacrificing resolution have you heard anything about it? I am hoping for a nice plug and play setup with my MBP / pure music. All the tech talk about drivers&firmware is making me nerves!! 

How would you compare it to the JK mk 3?


----------



## alcarp

Has anyone got the DI-V3 working with the Squeezebox Touch out of USB in asynch mode?
   
  I asked Kingwa if this would work given that the SBT has LINUX on the ARM chipset and this was his reply:
   
   
 _"We have got few users feedback, the SBT with the newest plug software, the DI-V3 can work well._
 _But we can't ensure._
 _Kingwa"_
  
 Don't exactly understand what this means.


----------



## jimmychan

Quote: 





alcarp said:


> Has anyone got the DI-V3 working with the Squeezebox Touch out of USB in asynch mode?
> 
> I asked Kingwa if this would work given that the SBT has LINUX on the ARM chipset and this was his reply:
> 
> ...


 
   
  The SBT-EDO works well with DI-V3 in adaptive mode but not the Async mode.


----------



## alcarp

Thanks Jimmychan. I take it this is via the USB port on the SBT. What firmware version does this need? Is there a significant improvement in SQ via adaptive mode?


----------



## ktm777

Quote: 





kingwa said:


> If you have issue on Linux, please send email and tell us the Linux gear model and the Linux version as we like to buy the same model to test with. *The VIA engineers informed us that the VIA chip only supports Linux on X86 chipsets and not on ARM chipsets.*
> 
> Thanks all for your help and advice.


 
   
  Quote: 





alcarp said:


> Has anyone got the DI-V3 working with the Squeezebox Touch out of USB in asynch mode?
> I asked Kingwa if this would work given that the SBT has LINUX on the ARM chipset and this was his reply:
> 
> _"*We have got few users feedback, the SBT with the newest plug software, the DI-V3 can work well.*_
> ...


 
      You may answer yourself, but for me KINGWA is making fools of us, SBT - bild on  the ARM chipset - will never work with
      DI-V3 using USB A-synch., mode and he knows it well. But from marketing point of view, he can't say it


----------



## Ajwaldo

Quote: 





alcarp said:


> Has anyone got the DI-V3 working with the Squeezebox Touch out of USB in asynch mode?
> 
> I asked Kingwa if this would work given that the SBT has LINUX on the ARM chipset and this was his reply:
> 
> ...


 
  I only have DI-V3 working in adaptive with SBT and that is with alternative Firmware ( #5), I don't know of any others that have it going in async' as I have asked the same question before. It sounds very good though in adaptive especially with hi-res files.


----------



## Ajwaldo

Thanks for that Ktm777, I had not seen this before, it is obvious that the ARM chipset in the SBT is not compatible for Asynch, I don't know why they they just don't write a firmware that is compatible or just tell everyone that it will only work in adaptive mode! They are a good company to deal with but in emails to kingwah he never mentioned it to me. It would be much better for PR to be upfront and honest.


----------



## jimmychan

I have been very upset that the SBT-EDO could not work with the DI-V3 in Async mode. My purpose to buy the DI-V3 is because the Async mode is superior than the Adaptive mode.


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





jimmychan said:


> I have been very upset that the SBT-EDO could not work with the DI-V3 in Async mode. My purpose to buy the DI-V3 is because the Async mode is superior than the Adaptive mode.


 
   
  Strangely, the async mode is reported to work on the SBT compatibility sheet.
  My async firmware basically gave me stuttering sound but I managed to have it working correctly once. Never could get it working after that.
   
  The Resonessence Labs Concero does not work with the SBT either. I suspect the SBT is not fully compliant, that's why I moved on and bought a small laptop with JRiver to avoid such issue in the future.
   
  Even with the same firmware #3 (reported as adaptive on the SBT), it sounds much better on JRiver than on the Squeezebox.


----------



## seaice

Quote: 





swansong said:


> Thanks for the review, I'm thinking about ordering one also. Regarding brightness I read firmware #5 provides additional warmth without sacrificing resolution have you heard anything about it? I am hoping for a nice plug and play setup with my MBP / pure music. All the tech talk about drivers&firmware is making me nerves!!
> 
> How would you compare it to the JK mk 3?


 

 Sorry, I haven't tried the firmware #5 yet and have never heard the JK mk 3. Any news about the firmware #5?


----------



## Tom W

Quote: 





clemmaster said:


> Strangely, the async mode is reported to work on the SBT compatibility sheet.
> My async firmware basically gave me stuttering sound but I managed to have it working correctly once. Never could get it working after that.
> 
> The Resonessence Labs Concero does not work with the SBT either. I suspect the SBT is not fully compliant, that's why I moved on and bought a small laptop with JRiver to avoid such issue in the future.
> ...


 
   
  Does it work with JRiver in async mode (firmware #4)?
   
  If it does, what settings are you using?


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





tom w said:


> Does it work with JRiver in async mode (firmware #4)?
> 
> If it does, what settings are you using?


 
   
  I didn't try it yet (NFB-27).
   
  I have an issue with the 1.22 drivers on my new laptop (win8 64bits): I simply can't install them.
   
  It says: "one or several modules could not be installed" at the very end. The whole drivers are that module... I can't seem to find the old 1.1 drivers on Audio-GD website.
  I'll check on my mom's laptop on which I managed to install the old drivers (win7 64bits) if I find the installer. I'm using this laptop for now...


----------



## ktm777

Quote: 





tom w said:


> Does it work with JRiver in async mode (firmware #4)?
> 
> If it does, what settings are you using?


 
  I've tried it with Windows7 64bit and JRiver (but without JPLAY), with firmware #4 it worked wery good, also decided to buy laptop and sell SBT - BUT DI-V3 will not accept JPlay. So I'm confused  Probably will buy laptop to work as dedicated music server - as described here http://www.genesisloudspeakers.com/newsletter/Newsletter_10th_Anniv.pdf , eventually will accept JRiver + Jplay without Extreeme Engine as DI-V3 does not support low buffer value  
   
*Clemmaster*, how could you describe differences in sound between SBT and laptop with JRiver? What laptop is it, I mean what CPU? Atom based with passive coolant?


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





ktm777 said:


> I've tried it with Windows7 64bit and JRiver (but without JPLAY), with firmware #4 it worked wery good, also decided to buy laptop and sell SBT - BUT DI-V3 will not accept JPlay. So I'm confused  Probably will buy laptop to work as dedicated music server - as described here http://www.genesisloudspeakers.com/newsletter/Newsletter_10th_Anniv.pdf , eventually will accept JRiver + Jplay without Extreeme Engine as DI-V3 does not support low buffer value
> 
> *Clemmaster*, how could you describe differences in sound between SBT and laptop with JRiver? What laptop is it, I mean what CPU? Atom based with passive coolant?


 
   
  In short: more focus and more detail (tighter bass, more extended treble). That's easy to spot on the sides of the stage. There might be other aspects that helps to make an overall more pleasant experience (less hardness). That might sound like the typical cliché, but it is what it is.
   
  The laptop is a (old) Asus VT30A with SU7300 dual core processor.
   
  My new laptop is based on Core i5 3337 (ivy bridge).


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





clemmaster said:


> I didn't try it yet (NFB-27).
> 
> I have an issue with the 1.22 drivers on my new laptop (win8 64bits): I simply can't install them.
> 
> ...


 
  Here is the link to the 1.1 drivers:
http://www.audio-gd.com/Audio-gdUSB32forwindows384.rar
  As for uninstalling the 1.22 drivers, make sure you're still using the correct firmware and your DAC is switched on.


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





realmassy said:


> Here is the link to the 1.1 drivers:
> http://www.audio-gd.com/Audio-gdUSB32forwindows384.rar
> As for uninstalling the 1.22 drivers, make sure you're still using the correct firmware and your DAC is switched on.


 
   
  Many thanks for that!
   
  I don't really get all this thing with different drivers for specific firmwares.
  Does this mean that those who want to try the spare firmware (is it #3 or #5? I saw both and they seem to be both of the "warm" kind) will need the 1.1 driver which are not available anymore on the website?
   
  As for uninstalling the 1.22, I didn't succeed at installing them anyway


----------



## realmassy

I don't know about firmware #5 (I haven't got it), but the #3 needs drivers 1.1 (although I've managed to get them working with the 1.22).
  I've used the #3 for a while and the sound was warmer, but in the end I went back to #4 and I think is lovely. Actually, when I switched back to #4 I thought it wasn't brighter than #3...sometimes we rely on our memory, and we're wrong


----------



## JuicyBruce

> Green Is adaptive Firmware (#5 I think) Black is async (#4 as shipped),


 
   
  #4 was too bright and agressive in my system. #5 by contrast is warmer and was sonically spot on - it really was that moment when I had finally found the sound I'd been searching for.


----------



## SwanSong

juicybruce said:


> #4 was too bright and agressive in my system. #5 by contrast is warmer and was sonically spot on - it really was that moment when I had finally found the sound I'd been searching for.




I'm considering this combo as well, I was thinking about the JK SPDIF but for the price I'm tempted by the Audio GD DI-V3s/PSU. Any comparisons you can offer would be helpful? The difference in firmware is it a major change in sound signature?


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





realmassy said:


> I don't know about firmware #5 (I haven't got it), but the #3 needs drivers 1.1 (although I've managed to get them working with the 1.22).
> I've used the #3 for a while and the sound was warmer, but in the end I went back to #4 and I think is lovely. Actually, when I switched back to #4 I thought it wasn't brighter than #3...sometimes we rely on our memory, and we're wrong


 
   
  I finally got it working 
   
  I swapped the firmware for the #4 and installed the 1.22 drivers once again. It did work immediately.
  I like the addition of the VIA ASIO "emulation" which works flawlessly with JRiver.
   
  As for the sound, I might swim against the stream, but I actually find the #4 firmware to be slightly warmer than the #3 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (subtle).


----------



## realmassy

^ Good! It's what I meant with "make sure you're still using the correct firmware and your DAC is switched on" but my English is broken


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





realmassy said:


> ^ Good! It's what I meant with "make sure you're still using the correct firmware and your DAC is switched on" but my English is broken


 
   
  Your English is perfectly fine (it's not my mother tongue either).
   
  I had  a session with the new firmware yesterday. It's definitely warmer than the #3 I've been using so far.
  I need to check what drivers I installed on my mom's laptop because I want to get that kind of sound back!
   
  Note that my #4 firmware is a custom one that enables the Coax output. This might play a role here.


----------



## davidfrombxl

Dear,
   
  I have a DI-V3 since 2 months, and I received two firmware chip (each green) with it.
  The second one (the spare one) give a brighter sound, and for me better sound, more realistic.
   
  When changing the firmware I had to install again the driver.
   
  I would like to know wich one is the adaptive or asynchronous, and I read somewhere in this formum that it exist a tool to "read" the version of the firmware.
  Do you know where I can found this tool? (not on the audio-gd apparently).
   
  These 2 chips are green and look the same, so it is difficult to know.
  Is the brighter one (regarding the sound) the adaptive or asynchronous?
   
  Wich one do you prefer in your system, the adaptive or asynchronous one?
   
  Thanks in advance


----------



## jimmychan

The one installed in the DI-V3 when you received, is the Async firmware.
   
  The other spare one is for adaptive mode.


----------



## Kingwa

Quote: 





jimmychan said:


> The one installed in the DI-V3 when you received, is the Async firmware.
> 
> The other spare one is for adaptive mode.


 
  All firmwares under Windows, mac and Linux (MMX) are asynchronism model , but the #3 and #5 have different design from #4 so the sound is have different .


----------



## Clemmaster

Thanks for the clarification Kingwa.
Could you elaborate a bit on the difference between #3 & #5?
Also, why does the squeezebox report adaptive mode for #3?


----------



## musicinmymind

Where to buy these, I mean best site and price


----------



## Tom W

At this time there is NO dealer in the US afaik.
   
  Send them an email explaining what you want including options, where you're located (US) and preferred shipping (if you have one).
   
  They'll reply with an invoice, pay via paypal and send them an email telling them that you've sent the money.
   
  They'll ship it and provide you with tracking info.


----------



## musicinmymind

Quote: 





tom w said:


> At this time there is NO dealer in the US afaik.
> 
> Send them an email explaining what you want including options, where you're located (US) and preferred shipping (if you have one).
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for replay...I need to read this thread to deceide #3 or others
   
  I will be using with Windows7 USB and connect to bifrost....any suggestion on which model will be best....will help me.


----------



## JuicyBruce

Quote: 





swansong said:


> I'm considering this combo as well, I was thinking about the JK SPDIF but for the price I'm tempted by the Audio GD DI-V3s/PSU. Any comparisons you can offer would be helpful? The difference in firmware is it a major change in sound signature?


 
   
  Enormous.
  My experience with re-clockers (non professional) is just Audio-GD and its been a jolly ride. Im not the guy to compare brands but I know what good sounds like.
  My upgrade path has been this:
  1. NFB3: nice
  2. NFB3 + V2: a mild improvement, probably more mental self reassurance than actual
  3. NFB3 + V2 + PSU: that first significant improvement that I wasnt expecting and piqued my interest
  4. NFB3 + V3 (#4) + PSU: kinda disappointed - had me reaching for the EQ to tame the highs which is something I dont like to do
  5. NFB3 + #5 + PSU: amazing. faultless. I never thought my dear old NFB3 could sound this good. Bravo Kingwa.
  6. NFB3 + #5 + li-ion battery: about the same as above - honestly could not report a noticable difference. If anything a smidgen more "analogue" but dont go out of your way to find a battery over the PSU.
   
  Thrown into the mix was the new HE-500 to go with/replace the old K702s but I kept referring back to the 1964q on the daily commute to reset my audio memory.
  Also FYI  - the PSU ran worryingly hot until I applied the resistor tweak to get it to work with the V3. 
   
  So yeah - I know the NFB3 aint the be all of DACs but to illustrate the worth of the DI series its been perfect. Pairing it with the C2.2 via ACSS was a good move too.


----------



## ktm777

Quote: 





kingwa said:


> Hi all, we are cooperating with VIA engineers to test with USB3.0 and WIN8. They report that they have tested on some PCs and do not have not any problems yet.
> If you have experienced an issue with USB3.0 or Win8, please send a report to us, audio-gd@126.com
> The email title: Report of USB3.0 (or Win8)
> Include the below information:
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





kingwa said:


> All firmwares under Windows, mac and Linux (MMX) are asynchronism model , but the #3 and #5 have different design from #4 so the sound is have different .


 
    As allways there is small "but" your device *must be X86 *chipset *not* *ARM* one (like SBT). So #3 can't be asynchronism as it works - at least with several SBT+EDO units - in adaptive mode.


----------



## musicinmymind

Quote: 





musicinmymind said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I am not able to find email id in Audio-gd site, clicking on ContactUs menu it get error "The page you requested is NOT AVAILABLE".
   
  Please share email id


----------



## SwanSong

juicybruce said:


> Enormous.
> My experience with re-clockers (non professional) is just Audio-GD and its been a jolly ride. Im not the guy to compare brands but I know what good sounds like.
> My upgrade path has been this:
> 1. NFB3: nice
> ...



Thanks JB, I'm waiting for Kingwa to get the PSU in stock. It sounds like I'll ask them to pre-install the #5 firmware. Hopefully the new PSU's will have this resistor issue ironed out. An audio partner ordered the nu-force converter since we've been talking about them and he saw a significant improvement also.


----------



## scorpionro

Quote: 





musicinmymind said:


> I am not able to find email id in Audio-gd site, clicking on ContactUs menu it get error "The page you requested is NOT AVAILABLE".
> 
> Please share email id


 
   
  Their site might have been down, but for me http://www.audio-gd.com/Contact-EN.htm is working.


----------



## SwanSong

juicybruce said:


> Enormous.
> My experience with re-clockers (non professional) is just Audio-GD and its been a jolly ride. Im not the guy to compare brands but I know what good sounds like.
> My upgrade path has been this:
> 1. NFB3: nice
> ...



What battery did you use? Just in case Kingwa does not get PSU in stock soon. If I find a good battery then it can improve sound slightly over the PSU? It also seems like the batteries are a bit cheaper than the $75 PSU!


----------



## kr0gg

i admit that i didn't even bother to try the firmware #5 because everyone said that its adaptive, not async
  funny thing is that i really enjoy the #5 now too.
  #4 was  sibilant and bright for me too


----------



## SwanSong

kr0gg said:


> i admit that i didn't even bother to try the firmware #5 because everyone said that its adaptive, not async
> funny thing is that i really enjoy the #5 now too.
> #4 was  sibilant and bright for me too




Do you use a battery or PSU? Have compared the sound with any other converters?


----------



## Kingwa

I have post the users report request so long , just got some users feedback the SBT, have not problem report on the Windows, Mac and USB3.0 .
  For test and fix the issue, I wish users who can tell me which model number of the SBT have the problems, then we can buy one for test .
  Thanks yours support . VIA and we are wish try our best to improve the products.


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> i admit that i didn't even bother to try the firmware #5 because everyone said that its adaptive, not async
> funny thing is that i really enjoy the #5 now too.
> #4 was  sibilant and bright for me too


 
   
  If you're getting sibilance then I'd guess that something is going wrong in the digital domain, possibly inadvertent re-sampling on your computer side altering the actual data.


----------



## JuicyBruce

Krogg - the battery I ordered and the matching charger


----------



## JuicyBruce

Quote: 





currawong said:


> If you're getting sibilance then I'd guess that something is going wrong in the digital domain, possibly inadvertent re-sampling on your computer side altering the actual data.


 
   
  Im using a macbook pro - tried with VLC, itunes and spotify and they sounded the same. Is there any way the osx audio engine could be causing this and how can I check?
  Krogg - on a mac by any chance?


----------



## jimmychan

Quote: 





kingwa said:


> I have post the users report request so long , just got some users feedback the SBT, have not problem report on the Windows, Mac and USB3.0 .
> For test and fix the issue, I wish users who can tell me which model number of the SBT have the problems, then we can buy one for test .
> Thanks yours support . VIA and we are wish try our best to improve the products.


 
   
  I think there is only one model for SB Touch. Try install the latest EDO plug in and use USB output to the DI-V3 with the default firmware (Async mode), the info shows the SBT is connected to a Async DAC, but no sounds output. If you change the firmware (Adaptive mode) and reboot the SBT, it will work and have sound output.


----------



## Kingwa

Do you have a link of Chinese web shop can buy this device?


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





currawong said:


> If you're getting sibilance then I'd guess that something is going wrong in the digital domain, possibly inadvertent re-sampling on your computer side altering the actual data.


 
   

 actually i'm playing strictly through Jplay using 2 PC's, moreover - i'm using and Adnaco S3B to isolate my audio from PC noises completely


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





juicybruce said:


> Krogg - the battery I ordered and the matching charger


 
   
  yeah. i've been using that battery and charger for a year now. i guess was the second guy who actually bought it here (for DI-DSP that was)


----------



## rdsu

kingwa said:


> have not problem report on the Windows, Mac and USB3.0 .



You are forgetting my report about Windows 8 64bit and USB3.0...  
So at least you have one...




kingwa said:


> Thanks yours support . VIA and we are wish try our best to improve the products.



Glad to ear that...  

Do you already have some feedback from VIA, about my issues?

Thanks


----------



## SwanSong

juicybruce said:


> Krogg - the battery I ordered and the matching charger



JB, thanks for the links. Do you keep this battery plugged in to the charger while using the DI V3?


----------



## ciphercomplete

I got this long winded response from VIA but it does end with good news for us Windows 8 users.
   
_"Hello,_
   
_VIA provides Windows 8 audio drivers for VIA audio chips that meet the Windows Logo Premium requirements, which can be found at the driver portal. These are general sound effects drivers with common functions. System manufacturers and motherboard vendors customize audio hardware and software, so to ensure optimal sound quality and compatibility, we strongly recommend you obtain the system-validated and certified audio drivers directly from your system manufacturer or motherboard manufacturer, not from VIA._
_The following VIA audio solutions do not meet the Windows Logo Premium requirements and therefore are supported by Microsoft's in-box audio support:_

 _VIA Vinyl HD audio: VT1708, VT1708A _
 _VIA Vinyl AC'97 audio codecs: VT1612A, VT1613, VT1616/B, VT1617/A, VT1618_
 _VIA AC'97 integrated solutions in the following VIA South Bridge chips: VT82C686A/B, VT8231, VT8233/AC, VT8235 & VT8237/R, VT8251_
 _If your system uses one of these VIA audio solutions and you are having audio issues using Windows 8 (32- or 64-bit), it is recommended that you install a sound card which has Windows Logo Premium driver support under Windows 8._
_*Note: *Later versions of the VIA Vinyl VT1708 family of HD audio codecs, denoted by letter suffixes e.g. VT1708B, VT1708S, do meet Windows Logo Premium, and drivers for Windows 8 can be downloaded from this site._
_*Windows 8 drivers for the Envy24 line of audio chips (Envy24 MT/DT/GT/PT/HT-S and VT1723) are under development.*_
   
_[size=small][size=10pt]Thanks in advance,[/size][/size]_
   
_[size=small][size=10pt]VIA Marketing [/size][/size]_
_[size=10pt]Taiwan[/size]"_
   
  The VT1731 is curiously absent from the list but it is  Envy chip so hopefully that list is not exclusive.


----------



## angel72

hi all, it' my first post here
  sorry for my bad english, hope you'll understand! I received my di-v3 with TXCO upgrade and PSU about 10 days ago, but I'm still unable to make it work!!
  not exactly: it works perfectly in other pc, but not in mine. when I install the drivers, the VIA control panel only shows 44.1 or 48 kHz options, and in any case, it doesn't sound (on other pc it reaches 192 kHz, and works). the strangest thing is that I can't completely uninstall the drivers: in fact, after disinstalling, when I turn on the div3 unit my pc (w7 32bit) starts looking for a driver and finds one!! it's name is VIA USB DEVICE FS. If I try to uninstall it, then I cannot install the driver, but when I go into its properties, I find its limitations at 48 kHz, so I think this is the bug!! any idea? please help!!!


----------



## clsidxxl

Angel 72 ,you need to find a 'stored ' of your driver in this directory ( C:\Windows\System32\DriverStore\FileRepository) and delete it


----------



## jimmychan

Quote: 





kingwa said:


> Do you have a link of Chinese web shop can buy this device?


 
   
  I think you could buy the SBT in Hong Kong retail shop at about $2400, or you could get it from Taobao.


----------



## scorpionro

There seem to be good news for VIA VT1371 & SBT, as on the home page of Audio-GD, they posted a link to a new kernel:
  "*[size=x-small]An user experience for improve USB32 performance with SBT[/size]*
The patch for the kernel is available here -   http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.alsa.devel/106773
The changes are already included in the kernel 3.9 rc6"
Anywone with a SBT & an USB32 device willing to give it a try ?


----------



## angel72

thanks clsidxxl
  I'll try to do that


----------



## rdsu

Quote: 





ciphercomplete said:


> I got this long winded response from VIA but it does end with good news for us Windows 8 users.
> 
> _"Hello,_
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for this info! 
   
  Maybe Kingwa can make some force to VT1731 be included...
   
  This kind of stuff makes me...


----------



## ktm777

rdsu said:


> Thanks for this info!
> 
> Maybe Kingwa can make some force to VT1731 be included...
> 
> This kind of stuff makes me... :angry_face:




I`ve bought DI-V3 to work with USB+EDO, after weeks gave up and plug it by coax. Then decided to buy a laptop, new one, touch screen - to replace SBT - and you know how the story ended  
But DI-V3 has - as it's said on their website - the lowest jitter in the world. I must have bad luck


----------



## Kingwa

Is there only one version SBT in world?
  I heard someone said now the new SBT have based on WIN8?


----------



## rdsu

Quote: 





ktm777 said:


> I`ve bought DI-V3 to work with USB+EDO, after weeks gave up and plug it by coax. Then decided to buy a laptop, new one, touch screen - to replace SBT - and you know how the story ended
> But DI-V3 has - as it's said on their website - the lowest jitter in the world. I must have bad luck


 
  DI-V3 is my first converter, but I like it a lot.
   
  The problem is the VIA driver that doesn't support Win 8 and must be optimized to support lower buffers...
   
  It seems Kingwa have bad luck with other company drivers... This must be corrected in the future...


----------



## kr0gg

my DI v3 works in Win8/64 on usb3.0  TI chipset perfectly.
   
  but, yes, being unable to set a low buffer is a problem for me


----------



## rdsu

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> my DI v3 works in Win8/64 on usb3.0  TI chipset perfectly.
> 
> but, yes, being unable to set a low buffer is a problem for me


 

 Do you have ASIO working on Win8 64bit?
  Only worked for me first time I install it, then after reboot and re-installs...


----------



## kr0gg

no. i couldn't make ASIO work at all


----------



## Poleepkwa

Quote: 





kingwa said:


> Is there only one version SBT in world?
> I heard someone said now the new SBT have based on WIN8?


 
  Dear Kingwa.
  There is only one SBT - Logitech Squeezebox Touch. This does not use windows at all,but is a linux based audio streamer.
http://www.logitech.com/en-hk/support/5745?crid=409&osid=14&bit=64


----------



## rdsu

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> no. i couldn't make ASIO work at all


 
  So you also have problems with Windows 8... 
   
  Report that to Kingwa, so we can get more info about this...


----------



## davidfrombxl

Dear,
   
  Do you know where I can found the software that read the version of the firmware chip?
  I have two version of the firmware, and I don't know which version they are.
   
  Thanks in advance and good listening 
   
  AnHappyOwnerFromBelgium


----------



## Clemmaster

I didn't have issue on Windows 8 64bits as soon as I installed the correct driver for my firmware (1.22).
  ASIO worked flawlessly on JRiver using the VIA "ASIO emulator".


----------



## kr0gg

ASIO emulator uses KS
  it is not ASIO at all


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> ASIO emulator uses KS
> it is not ASIO at all


 
   
  I know.
  Are there any alternative?
   
  Kernel streaming is fine with me, so is WASAPI Event style.


----------



## kr0gg

you know that ASIO doesn't work in your case too, but you write that it does.
  seems kinda strange to me


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> you know that ASIO doesn't work in your case too, but you write that it does.
> seems kinda strange to me


 
   
  No, I don't know any alternative to the VIA ASIO emulator. This is what I wrote.


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





clemmaster said:


> ASIO worked flawlessly


 
   
  sure thing.


----------



## rdsu

Quote: 





clemmaster said:


> No, I don't know any alternative to the VIA ASIO emulator. This is what I wrote.


 
  You don't have any advantage of using ASIO emulator instead of Kernel Streaming...
   
  Of course, we can use KS or WASAPI Event Style, but we can't get the ASIO recommended by Audio-gd...
   
  You also have issues with Windows 8, then you can also report that to Kingwa... 
   
  Let's help to solve this issue...


----------



## angel72

Quote: 





clsidxxl said:


> Angel 72 ,you need to find a 'stored ' of your driver in this directory ( C:\Windows\System32\DriverStore\FileRepository) and delete it


 
  awful
  now I cannot do anything, not installing new drivers nor uninstalling old ones
  help needed pls


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> sure thing.


 
   





 you didn't bother to quote the whole line...
   
ASIO worked flawlessly on JRiver *using the VIA "ASIO emulator"*.
   
Anyway, is there a true ASIO driver for the USB32? If yes, It didn't automatically install with the package.


----------



## rdsu

Quote: 





clemmaster said:


> Anyway, is there a true ASIO driver for the USB32? If yes, It didn't automatically install with the package.


 
   
  Yes you have... http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USB32/USB32EN.htm
   
  That is why I said that you also have issues with ASIO and must report that to Audio-gd, to help solving this issue...


----------



## kr0gg

Quote: 





clemmaster said:


> you didn't bother to quote the whole line...
> 
> ASIO worked flawlessly on JRiver *using the VIA "ASIO emulator"*.
> 
> Anyway, is there a true ASIO driver for the USB32? If yes, It didn't automatically install with the package.


 

 it's like saying that you had perfect sex with, uhm, your right hand


----------



## rdsu

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> it's like saying that you had perfect sex with, uhm, your right hand


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> it's like saying that you had perfect sex with, uhm, your right hand


 
   
  But I do! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Anyway I see the "Audio-GD USB Audio Device ASIO" in the driver list on the webpage: is that what you're referring to?
  The guide mostly mention the _VIA DirectKS ASIO _and _ASIO4ALL_ which both are ASIO wrappers.
   
  I never saw any _Audio-GD ASIO_ driver, even on my win7 laptop, so...
   
  I didn't quite follow that driver thing anyway: were the A-GD ASIO drivers added at some point in the USB32 drivers or were they here from the very beginning?


----------



## realmassy

I didn't install the asio4all wrapper and the Asio driver are working fine with JRiver (win8 server)


----------



## SwanSong

How is the V3 working in the Mac world? All this driver and asynchronous vs adaptive USB firmware # stuff is a concern for a plug and play type user???? 

Any Mac users out there with good feedback??
Thanks


----------



## blitzxgene

Quote: 





swansong said:


> How is the V3 working in the Mac world? All this driver and asynchronous vs adaptive USB firmware # stuff is a concern for a plug and play type user????
> 
> Any Mac users out there with good feedback??
> Thanks


 
   
  I've used my Reference 10 without issue with pure music on my macbook pro. It has the V3 built into it. 
   
  On a side note, I would recommend switching to different power cords besides the pangea AC9's. I had one on my old Audio-gd fun and Reference 10 before deciding to try a little bit nice cable. I've come to the conclusion the AC9 is bass heavy and hardens the treble, making it more fatiguing than it should be. If you don't have that problem with you rig then nevermind. But consider it if you would.


----------



## JuicyBruce

Perfectly - about the only time I have been relieved my workplace is all mac. 
   
  Edit - Sorry a bit hasty. I couldnt get up-sampling to work on the trial of Audirvana I was using. Not overly fussed about that however. Everything else has been a seamless plug and play situation thankfully.


----------



## Currawong

Fine here too with both my MacBook Pro and Air.


----------



## jimmychan

Quote: 





scorpionro said:


> There seem to be good news for VIA VT1371 & SBT, as on the home page of Audio-GD, they posted a link to a new kernel:
> "*[size=x-small]An user experience for improve USB32 performance with SBT[/size]*
> The patch for the kernel is available here -   http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.alsa.devel/106773
> The changes are already included in the kernel 3.9 rc6"
> Anywone with a SBT & an USB32 device willing to give it a try ?


 
   
  Anybody has tried this patch? It seems not a usual user knows how to do with it.


----------



## SwanSong

blitzxgene said:


> I've used my Reference 10 without issue with pure music on my macbook pro. It has the V3 built into it.
> 
> On a side note, I would recommend switching to different power cords besides the pangea AC9's. I had one on my old Audio-gd fun and Reference 10 before deciding to try a little bit nice cable. I've come to the conclusion the AC9 is bass heavy and hardens the treble, making it more fatiguing than it should be. If you don't have that problem with you rig then nevermind. But consider it if you would.




Thanks I'm relieved! I use the AC9 on my active monitors and sub only. On my dac I use the AC14se, I may give another vendor a try but the price is so appealing. Thanks


----------



## SwanSong

currawong said:


> Fine here too with both my MacBook Pro and Air.




Thanks, waiting for the PSU to get instock


----------



## SwanSong

juicybruce said:


> Perfectly - about the only time I have been relieved my workplace is all mac.
> 
> Edit - Sorry a bit hasty. I couldnt get up-sampling to work on the trial of Audirvana I was using. Not overly fussed about that however. Everything else has been a seamless plug and play situation thankfully.



What player are you using? I demo'd Amarra and Audirvana but choose Pure Music as my main player. Thanks for your earlier help JB


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





jimmychan said:


> Anybody has tried this patch? It seems not a usual user knows how to do with it.


 
   
  I see someone asked this on the EDO main thread (squeezebox forums).
   
  In principle, one just has to create a patch file (linux) by copy/pasting what's on the website and apply it to the clock.c file on the squeezebox touch.
  I could not find this file on my SBT, though. I tried for few minutes and might give it another try later. I could not grep the file through SCP (connection error) so I still need to figure out where it is located.


----------



## scorpionro

clock.c should be in the kernel sources; you would have to compile the kernel afterwards; your SBT has the kernel already compiled and not the sources


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





scorpionro said:


> clock.c should be in the kernel sources; you would have to compile the kernel afterwards; your SBT has the kernel already compiled and not the sources


 
   
  Yep, so only Triode or the guy who have access to the sources of the SBT custom kernel can patch it :/ That's what I thought but I was trying to find it anyway...


----------



## SwanSong

kr0gg said:


> yeah. i've been using that battery and charger for a year now. i guess was the second guy who actually bought it here (for DI-DSP that was)



Kr0gg- do you leave the charger plugged in while running the DI V3 via the battery? If not how long does a full charge power the DI V3?


----------



## kr0gg

nonono. you should never used it while connected to charger.
  a full charge lasts for around 6 hours.


----------



## Kingwa

I ask the saller ,he replied the SBT have discontinued now .
  What is the new model?
  Should I get the current old model or get a new model?


----------



## jimmychan

Quote: 





kingwa said:


> I ask the saller ,he replied the SBT have discontinued now .
> What is the new model?
> Should I get the current old model or get a new model?


 
   
  No replacement for SBT.
   
  There are still many SBT in the market available although Logitech has discontinued.
   
  Just go get one from Taobao, and they are all the same model.


----------



## SleepyOne

I am selling off my DI-V3S (with TCXO upgrade) + DI-PSU (240V) to fund a new DAC. This is the usb input only version.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/660539/fs-audio-gd-di-v3s-with-tcxo-upgrade-usb-input-only-version-di-psu-240v


----------



## angel72

Quote: 





angel72 said:


> hi all, it' my first post here
> sorry for my bad english, hope you'll understand! I received my di-v3 with TXCO upgrade and PSU about 10 days ago, but I'm still unable to make it work!!
> not exactly: it works perfectly in other pc, but not in mine. when I install the drivers, the VIA control panel only shows 44.1 or 48 kHz options, and in any case, it doesn't sound (on other pc it reaches 192 kHz, and works). the strangest thing is that I can't completely uninstall the drivers: in fact, after disinstalling, when I turn on the div3 unit my pc (w7 32bit) starts looking for a driver and finds one!! it's name is VIA USB DEVICE FS. If I try to uninstall it, then I cannot install the driver, but when I go into its properties, I find its limitations at 48 kHz, so I think this is the bug!! any idea? please help!!!


 
  please someone help me, i'm desperate!!!!!
  mr kingwaaaa


----------



## jimmychan

Try all the USB ports on your PC, especially the USB ports direct on the mother board, not the extend one.


----------



## angel72

i've tried with all the six usb 2.0 ports on the back of the pc
  my mb is asus p5q43td


----------



## jimmychan

Do you have a spare HDD?
   
  Try a clean install of Windows, and then install the DI drivers to see if it is the other software/drivers in the Windows that stops the DI-V3 from working.
   
  I would use this method to isolate the problem of Hardware and software.


----------



## Kingwa

Quote: 





angel72 said:


> please someone help me, i'm desperate!!!!!
> mr kingwaaaa


 
  Connect the USB device and power on, uninstall the driver and restart the computer.
  Open the device manager , find the USB device , click update the driver ---> search the driver by self ----> find the driver folder ------> viaudusb ------>Driver ------ WinXP (for 32bit XP and Win7, WinXP 64 for 64bit XP and win7 ), click OK or confirm.


----------



## angel72

Quote: 





kingwa said:


> Connect the USB device and power on, uninstall the driver and restart the computer.
> Open the device manager , find the USB device , click update the driver ---> search the driver by self ----> find the driver folder ------> viaudusb ------>Driver ------ WinXP (for 32bit XP and Win7, WinXP 64 for 64bit XP and win7 ), click OK or confirm.


 
  ok, thank you
  after that, pc changed the drivers from USB SPEAKERS in AUDIO GD.
  And now how can I install control panel and other features?
  if I try to launch SETUP.EXE, there's no way to do that, I Always receive an error code
   
  0xE0000203, 0x0
   
  and then
   
  please check the device is well plugged in
   
  but it's well plugged, no doubt
   
  I use audiogd usb cable


----------



## Kingwa

I think you can send a driver install video to my mailbox see what happen during install.
  I try in my computer install the driver in devices manager, the USB device already can working .


----------



## hawkhead

Kingwa
   
  any news on VIA fixing the broken VIA ASIO ?


----------



## angel72

Quote: 





jimmychan said:


> Do you have a spare HDD?
> 
> Try a clean install of Windows, and then install the DI drivers to see if it is the other software/drivers in the Windows that stops the DI-V3 from working.
> 
> I would use this method to isolate the problem of Hardware and software.


 
  thank you jimmychan
  maybe some friends can help me with a separate hdd, and we'll be able to understand if the problem is on the hardware or software side


----------



## Kingwa

Quote: 





hawkhead said:


> Kingwa
> 
> any news on VIA fixing the broken VIA ASIO ?


 
  The reason is the V1.2 driver ASIO support up to 32bit , but SPDIF output support up to 24bit.
  Now have the driver download in our web page.


----------



## rdsu

Quote: 





kingwa said:


> The reason is the V1.2 driver ASIO support up to 32bit , but SPDIF output support up to 24bit.
> Now have the driver download in our web page.


 

 This should fix the ASIO issue on Windows 8 64bit?
   
  Any news about driver optimization to support lower buffers?


----------



## angel72

I've found a guide about "how to disable automatic driver installation in seven"
  tonight I'll give it a try: uninstall drivers, clean up the pc and disable automatic driver installation.
  at this point I'll try to download audio gd new drivers...and see what happens


----------



## elwappo99

Anyone know if you can get a USB32 kit for older usb units from Audio-GD?


----------



## analog'd

ok, i give up. can somebody please tell me how to execute something that will display a control panel for this thing in WIN 7? after working at this for 8 miserable hours, I have associated the correct driver to the device. but since the initial load failed when running setup.exe, I have no icon to accomplish starting this thing up.
   
  H E L P


----------



## Tom W

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> Anyone know if you can get a USB32 kit for older usb units from Audio-GD?


 
   
  I believe so but it's like these upgrades....NOT plug and play....Mods are required for most older dacs.
   
  http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/TE8802/TE8802kitEN.htm
   
  Drop Kingwa an email to verify.
   
  I believe you can wire it directly to the DSP module (if your DAC has one) but then you'll loose your S/PDIF (coax and optical) connections.
   
  I was thinking on picking up a spare DSP module to try it but in the end I figured the DI V3 would be a better choice for my DAC19-DSP.
   
  Of course my goal was to eliminate the S/PDIF to I2S conversion.


----------



## analog'd

Quote: 





analog'd said:


> ok, i give up. can somebody please tell me how to execute something that will display a control panel for this thing in WIN 7? after working at this for 8 miserable hours, I have associated the correct driver to the device. but since the initial load failed when running setup.exe, I have no icon to accomplish starting this thing up.
> 
> H E L P


 
  great - I executed setup again and it completed successfully this time. reboot and have some panel displays. BUT I have 24 bit but no 96K...????


----------



## analog'd

Quote: 





analog'd said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  apparently i'm in the same boat as angel72, who i'm sure is a very nice person .... but this sucks. grrrrr.


----------



## analog'd

I just reinstalled my nuforce u192s usb-s/spdif converter and , as it did originally, it works just fine.
   
  there has got to be a bug of some sort in this audio-gd driver that we're being instructed to use for win 7 32. it seems unlikely that 2 of us would have the exact same troublesome results if there were not an issue with the driver software, especially when all other audio drivers work as they should (i've tried both a nuforce and a yulong usb driver successfully.
   
  i would really like to be able to get this device working, but wiping my system clean of other software drivers seems a bit above and beyond the call of an end user. .
   
  angel72 - any luck?
   
  Kingwa - any ideas?


----------



## angel72

NO LUCK, I'm soooo angry!
  my last experiment, I wrote about it few posts above, had no success: probably it would have gone fine if it was the first attempt of connecting the audio gd to the pc.
  now I'll try a clean install of Windows,  with an external hard disk, as suggested by jimmychan
   
   
  or sell everything, I'm so bored...


----------



## davidfrombxl

Hi,
   
  I can share my experience with you, how  install the driver.
  First, install using the setup.exe didn't work for me: ok I work in IT so I can find a solution
  in device manager, I right click on the unit, and chose "update driver software" (or something like that)
  next, choose "browse my computer ..." (or let me pick up....)
  next, I don't remember exactly, but you there is an option to install hardware, where you choose manually the type of hardware you want to install (something like "install the hardware that I manually select from a list")
  So, I choose the type of device (I choose for "sound, video and game device"), browse your computer and choose for the driver (for me it was in the folder "vista64" (I'm using windows 7 64 bits).
  After that, windows recognize the unit and it woks perfectly


----------



## angel72

interesting...
  mr kingwa told me to use xp (i use seven 32bit)


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





davidfrombxl said:


> Hi,
> 
> I can share my experience with you, how  install the driver.
> First, install using the setup.exe didn't work for me: ok I work in IT so I can find a solution
> ...


 
   
  This is a good advice. I did the same yesterday when I updated the driver to the newest version 1.3: it did work nicely. By the way, the "driver" has a .inf extension.


----------



## hawkhead

Well the good news with 1.3 is that it plays sound through VIA ASIO in Windows 8 64 bit
   
  but since the people at VIA seem incapable of reading or testing their own code it will not load the control panel - just how stupid can people be ?????????????


----------



## realmassy

I don't think they deserve to be called 'stupid', you're not going to get anything with that kind of behaviour. You should be happy to have now ASIO working on your machine. As for the panel, the setup copies it on your Desktop, you can simply double-click on it.


----------



## hawkhead

OK not stupid then: thick, dumb, moronic, idiotic, ESN -pick one


----------



## scorpionro

Quote: 





hawkhead said:


> Well the good news with 1.3 is that it plays sound through VIA ASIO in Windows 8 64 bit
> 
> but since the people at VIA seem incapable of reading or testing their own code it will not load the control panel - just how stupid can people be ?????????????


 
  They probably simply didn't even care about testing that ( on the Audio-GD it is mentioned to be a *driver test *). I assume this is a beta or perhaps even alpha release, specifically targeted for the Win 8 x64 issues.


----------



## ciphercomplete

I'm glad the issue is being fixed.  I will test it out this weekend and email Kingwa the results.  I second updating the driver through windows and not attempting to do a fresh install of the new driver.  
   
  I'll post any differences I hear, if there are any, between low buffer kernel stream and ASIO if everything works properly.
   
  I wouldn't get too upset about the control panel thing, this is a beta test after all.


----------



## genclaymore

I know this about the audio-GD DI, but those drivers fixed my issue that I was having in windows 8  with my NFB15.32 with ASIO not working with FL studio and certain music players.


----------



## musicinmymind

I am planning to order DI-V3 and DI-PSU. Will be using laptop (Windows 7 64bit) USB output to DI-V3 and SPDIF input into [size=11pt]Schiit Bifrost[/size].
   
  Please suggest which [size=11pt]option should I select BNC or RCA, I am not aware of them. All I know is my laptop SPDIF output was much better then USB, but SPDIF stopped working for some reason and Dell is asking 300$ for repair.[/size]
   
  [size=11pt]Should I include TCXO clock, does in make sound better.[/size]
   
  [size=11pt] [/size]


----------



## scorpionro

The BNC connection should be superior to the RCA one, as BNC is designed to have an exact 75 Ohm impedance. The best idea would be to try both BNC and RCA and see which you like more, because in the end that's what really matters and not the theory. The TCXO will bring an improvement and I would definitely get it ( it's quite cheap at $20 ).


----------



## musicinmymind

Quote: 





scorpionro said:


> The BNC connection should be superior to the RCA one, as BNC is designed to have an exact 75 Ohm impedance. The best idea would be to try both BNC and RCA and see which you like more, because in the end that's what really matters and not the theory. The TCXO will bring an improvement and I would definitely get it ( it's quite cheap at $20 ).


 
   
  Thanks for suggesting..I will go for BNC with TCXO.


----------



## musicinmymind

[size=10.5pt]When I did check with Audio-gd, they replayed as below. Anyone used [size=11pt]Schiit Bifrost[/size] with BNC and how is their synergy? [/size]
  [size=10.5pt]suggestion on BNC vs RCA for [size=11pt]Schiit Bifrost is most welcome[/size][/size]
   
   
*[size=10.5pt]"The BNC output should be better but it is current output, some few DAC brands maybe can't working well with it."[/size]*


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





musicinmymind said:


> Thanks for suggesting..I will go for BNC with TCXO.


 
   
  Quote: 





musicinmymind said:


> [size=10.5pt]When I did check with Audio-gd, they replayed as below. Anyone used [size=11pt]Schiit Bifrost[/size] with BNC and how is their synergy? [/size]
> [size=10.5pt]suggestion on BNC vs RCA for [size=11pt]Schiit Bifrost is most welcome[/size][/size]
> 
> 
> *[size=10.5pt]"The BNC output should be better but it is current output, some few DAC brands maybe can't working well with it."[/size]*


 
   
  Are you talking about the output? 
   
  You're working a little too hard over this. These are basically the same connection unless you're running really high end stuff. Looking at the bifrost it only has a RCA coax input. The two are interchangable with an adapter. Technically speaking BNC is a better connection, but I just don't think it will make any difference on the Bifrost.


----------



## analog'd

and from the "windows seriously couldn't suck more" department:
   
  i have a nuforce u192s running under win 7 32 bit; but could not get the audio-gd div-3 driver to install properly on the same system. now, i'm replacing my pc soon, so i wanted to compare the nuforce to the gd despite my current pc refusing to work with it, so.... i took both converters to my stepson's rig. he's using the same grantfidelity tubedac11 as i am, so i hoped to be able to compare them on his pc, which has a much newer motherboard et al, and is running win 64 bit.
   
  damned if the audio gd didn't install immediately and work perfectly!!! sounds great , couldnt wait to install the nuforce and compare. guess what? the newforce would not install properly on his machine. I'll be damned. talk about "ya can't win"....
   
  so, i'm about to go borrow his pc, set it up beside mine, and compare the audio gd to the nuforce by simply swapping out which coax is connected to the dac, and selecting that device (that converter) in foobar. i will finally be able to hear them within a moment of each other, and with my entire hi res library at hand ( the mellowist i could get on his rig was led zep, and although the glories of megadeath impressed me to no end i am looking forward to hearing the div-3 playing bill evans, jennifer warnes, ella and duke, bartok, some miles, cat stevens, joni, dusty and dolphy. one of the main things i will compare is the dynamics on brubeck's track 'take 5' (a needledrop of the 45 rpm pressing, as are most of these).
   
  then of course i will confirm the beauty with some megadeath.


----------



## SwanSong

Quote: 





analog'd said:


> and from the "windows seriously couldn't suck more" department:
> 
> i have a nuforce u192s running under win 7 32 bit; but could not get the audio-gd div-3 driver to install properly on the same system. now, i'm replacing my pc soon, so i wanted to compare the nuforce to the gd despite my current pc refusing to work with it, so.... i took both converters to my stepson's rig. he's using the same grantfidelity tubedac11 as i am, so i hoped to be able to compare them on his pc, which has a much newer motherboard et al, and is running win 64 bit.
> 
> ...


 
  What are you waiting for bro!  I can't wait, which converter does the group think will win out? my vote is GD


----------



## analog'd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete_mac* 


_ The latest audio-gd DI with the USB32 chipset is a clear improvement over the older DI when used as a USB to SPDIF interface. In fact, I can't think of another converter that would surpass its performance at its asking price (around $140 + postage for the unit, excluding the optional external power supply). Audiophilleo-like performance at a fraction of the price (and a class above than the cheaper TE7022 or TI/BB equipped units)._

 

 I spent a good part of the weekend comparing two converters. I set up two pc's side by side, both running win 7, 1 32 bit and 1 64 bit. from each of these i ran a usb cable. the 64 bit pc's usb terminated at the usb input on the Audio_gd di v3, the other was run to a Nuforce U192S. i ran a digital coax cable from each to the S/PDIF input on the Grant Fidelity TubeDac-11, and had copies of the same hires needledrops on both machines. i used foobar on both machines to play back. Per the manufacturer’s suggestions, for the NuForce I selected Wasapi event driven output while for the Audio_gd I used kernel streaming.

 after a bit of practice i became adept at starting the same tracks simultaneously on both computers, and was able to a/b very quickly by simply swapping which coax cable was input in the back of the Grant Fidelity TubeDac-11.

 Before I had worked out the timing of the start-ups, I thought everything sounded pretty much the same from the gd to the nuforce, but heard what I perceived to be a difference in the bass (specifically the gd sounded “stronger/deeper” in bass, but the nuforce exposed more nuance of tone/detail. But I kept becoming befuddled as I couldn’t always hear the differences. I spent a lot of time trying to nail down what I was hearing.

 Then I stumbled on a method of executing the start-ups(the perfect lag time that allowed me to switch the cable and hear the music without missing a note going from the audio-gd to the nuforce smoothly. That turned it into an actual a/b comparison and allowed me to hear all the differences in all their glory!

 Drum roll, si vous plais….There were absolutely no differences in the sound! Nada, zero, zip. The bass was exactly the same ( it was because I was not hearing it as a real a/b; so that I was hearing an out of sequence comparison – where the bass two measures later IS different: my memory could not retain the exact intonation when there was a gap and I was comparing two spots in a cut that were not concurrent. DUH! That’s why they call it ‘a/b-ing’ and not ‘a/d-ing’.

 So on both the Beyer Dynamic T1 and the Sennheiser HD800 (two extremely revealing headphones), using the most revealing tube I’ve ever heard (Amperex usa 1960 white label 6922 usn with a damper on it) I could hear absolutely no change when I rolled from one to the other. The only time I did hear a change was when I removed the outboard power supply from the Audio-GD Div3; at which point there was a significant difference between the two with the gd not delivering what it did with the power supply module.

 Testing this on another listener who owns a tubedac-11 produced the same results. He chose the nuforce as superior to the audio_gd when the gd was usb powered; but when it was powered by the separate unit he could not tell which unit he was hearing.

 Both sound fantastic, btw.

 So, Pete, I highly recommend powering the div3 using something other than the usb power; and although I have no idea of anything else at the same cost as the gd that will outmatch it’s sound quality, the Nuforce at $99.00 currently matches it. (btw, the nuforce is also tiny so that it’ll be great for portable use, and it displays what it’s playing (16/44; 24/96, 24/192 etc).

 I am wondering from if the lesson to be learned from this is that, when it’s done right the re-clocking works and should not sound different. Could it be that the differences described by listeners between the various more expensive units are actually a colorization being enforced by them? Or in some cases perhaps the units are not performing up to snuff and it’s simply the jitter still at play?

 I don’t know. I plan to study the feedback on more costly converters and when I can give one a try. As for now I am firmly comfortable recommending the USB powered Nuforce (I know, I know..it CAN’T sound ok if powered by USB…unless it can, apparently) as performing at exactly the same level with identical sonic output as the audio_gd.

 Audio_gd div3 owners (of which I am one) – I am ready to take the heat. But don’t bother unless you have compared the two side by side, with all things equal.

 btw - i listened to hi res needldrops of 45 rpm pressings of Brubeck 'Take Five', Bill Evans 'Moonbeams' and live at art d's, led zep I, bartok concerto for orchestra(reiner, classic 33 1/3), a great copy of natty dread, 33 1/3 at 16 bits, bowie's aladin sane title cut (jpn 33 1/3) tea for the tillerman (audio fidelity 33 1/3); sunshine superman and sunny goodge street(steve hoffman's remaster); some radiohead 45 rpm eps; eric dolphy out to lunch 45 rpm "hat and beard" and coltrane blue train title cut from 45 rpm).


----------



## SwanSong

Great comparison review and just in time! Nuforce keeps the details of this unit under wrap I could not find clock info or the usual design spill. Since some were comparing the Audio GD combo to the AP1-2 without pure power I guess the little Nuforce can compete with the USB powered AP's.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote: 





analog'd said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *pete_mac*
> ...


 
   
  For the sake of the record, the DI-V3 uses significantly more power than the Nuforce.  Something like 48000mw  (max) for the AGd to 150mw for the nuforce if my conversion math is right.  This is crucial for the clock as USB power is prone to interrupts.    
   
  I think your post is getting to the fact that as long as you get the data of the computer without much issue then don't expect to hear much difference no matter how much you spend for the device.  Once you have a competent usb to spdif solution any bad sound you experience is likely due to something going on with your computer (too many usb devices, heavy cpu or memory usage etc).
   
  With that said I would still recommend USB to SPDIF devices with separate power supplies if the user intends to use their computer heavily while listening to music or they have a older computer.  People with dedicated music servers or very powerful computers probably don't have to be as picky.
   
  There is a question whether low power converters like the Nuforce are superior to the likes of the AGD or the Audiohilleo.  As long as they get the same results I think they probably are or can be but there is probably a limit to it.  Some devices just work better with more power.  Some devices have multiple clocks (Empirical Audio) which require more power and I think having separate clocks for 44.1khz and 48khz is probably the best solution.  But of course more clocks means more power which makes USB power only not viable.
   
  And there is always the question as to whether the Nuforce would be better with a separate power supply. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   A crucial consideration a person should make when buying a converter is power consumption if they are planning to use usb power only and the NUForce seems to fit the bill with its really low consumption.


----------



## jimmychan

If they both sound the same, Audio-Gd already win on the price.


----------



## SwanSong

jimmychan said:


> If they both sound the same, Audio-Gd already win on the price.



Nuforce is $99 with free shipping


----------



## scorpionro

Also, the reviewer mentioned that the DIV3 was equal to the Nuforce only when used with the external PSU, which further increases the price difference.


----------



## Clemmaster

Could you hear a difference with the built-in USB input of the TubeDAC-11?
   
  That DAC could be a limiting factor when comparing 2 DDCs (which, in essence, is a good thing since you can keep the cheaper of the two 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  Something with really sensitive input stage, like the Metrum DACs, might be more appropriate. I'm not questioning, I'm just asking 
   
  In my experience, the difference between a Stello U3 and a Concero is substantial with the Metrum Quad.
   
  Btw: are you "[size=small][size=small]J. Niss[/size]" [/size]on amazon?


----------



## kr0gg

testing a digital source (usb-converter) on a cheapo DAC is the worst idea ever, imho
  it's like comparing running shoes when you've only got one leg .


----------



## SwanSong

Quote: 





clemmaster said:


> Could you hear a difference with the built-in USB input of the TubeDAC-11?
> 
> That DAC could be a limiting factor when comparing 2 DDCs (which, in essence, is a good thing since you can keep the cheaper of the two
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> testing a digital source (usb-converter) on a cheapo DAC is the worst idea ever, imho
> it's like comparing running shoes when you've only got one leg .


 
  I think the better question should be what Nuforce did right IMO!


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote: 





clemmaster said:


> Could you hear a difference with the built-in USB input of the TubeDAC-11?
> 
> That DAC could be a limiting factor when comparing 2 DDCs (which, in essence, is a good thing since you can keep the cheaper of the two
> 
> ...


 
   
  I think thats a fair question for all the reasons you listed.


----------



## analog'd

Quote: 





clemmaster said:


> Could you hear a difference with the built-in USB input of the TubeDAC-11?
> 
> That DAC could be a limiting factor when comparing 2 DDCs (which, in essence, is a good thing since you can keep the cheaper of the two
> 
> ...


 
   
  huge difference between the signal delivered via usb to the td-11 vs delivery via coax from usb to s/pdif converter. yes, my review of the u192s is posted here, on amazon and on audiokarma. it details the benefits.
   
   
  the dac is extremely capable of delivering differences in input from different drivers, different resolution files, different masterings of the same recording, etc etc etc. It is clearly benefitting as expected by re-clocking, bringing it to a new level. And it is quite easy to hear the difference in the div3 when it's NOT usb powered. It is highly unlikely that it is a shortcoming on the part of the dac that renders these two converters sounding the same. I understand the question but given the fact that it scales up with better resolution recordings of better pressings, competes on many levels with a vinyl rig comprised of a vpi aires turntable/benz micro ruby 2h cart/pass labs aleph ono phono stage preamp, and that it allows me to hear the shortcomings of the div3 when usb powered, it seems illogical to assume that the tubedac is holding back the converter. is it POSSIBLE? sure, ANYthing's possible.  
   
  my cd player is a naim cd 5 with hi-cap (outboard power supply). i use a chang lightspeed power conditioner with it. the dac in the td-11 delivers sonics at the same level as the naim gear when playing a cd, despite having only the pc as a transport. with the addition of the usb to spdif converter it clearly bests the naim rig.


----------



## analog'd

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> testing a digital source (usb-converter) on a cheapo DAC is the worst idea ever, imho
> it's like comparing running shoes when you've only got one leg .


 
  could you elaborate on your experience with the dac?


----------



## jimmychan

Quote: 





swansong said:


> Nuforce is $99 with free shipping


 
   
  I should get one to try.


----------



## musicinmymind

I already ordered, got impressed by *analog'd *review, I was about to place order for DIV3 and also got quote list from Audio-gd but Nuforce is much cheaper so I want to try them first. Having heard difference between SPDIF and USB earlier, I know what to expect. 
   
DC meet is on 25th of this month, hope I will be able compare Nuforce with DIV3, it is listed on available rigs.


----------



## SwanSong

musicinmymind said:


> I already ordered, got impressed by *analog'd *review, I was about to place order for DIV3 and also got quote list from Audio-gd but Nuforce is much cheaper so I want to try them first. Having heard difference between SPDIF and USB earlier, I know what to expect.
> 
> DC meet is on 25th of this month, hope I will be able compare Nuforce with DIV3, it is listed on available rigs.




Look forward to your impressions!


----------



## rdsu

After try the latest Audio-gd USB32 v1.3 driver, these are the issues:
  Quote: 





rdsu said:


> About Windows 8 64bits, USB 3.0(Renesas/NEC - µPD72020) and driver issues:
> 
> 
> USB3.0: I have to also restart DI when restart Windows. This didn't happen with USB2.0.
> ...


----------



## Ajwaldo

Quote: 





davidfrombxl said:


> Hi,
> 
> I can share my experience with you, how  install the driver.
> First, install using the setup.exe didn't work for me: ok I work in IT so I can find a solution
> ...


 
  I still cant get the 1.3 install to work with Win 8 64bit, even though it starts to download it using the method above, then just crashes and reboots, I am also bored with all of this, I can get my old DI-V1 works OK no problems (with Win 8-64), I spent a whole rainy day on this downloading all versions for the V3, 1.2, 1.3 they all look as though they will load then crash!!! I use J.River as a server, I am also a Squeezebox Touch user and I am still unable to get that V3 running in async mode. So I'm totally bored with Audio-GD, on 2 fronts.


----------



## angel72

not to talk about the customer support...it simply does not exist


----------



## genclaymore

The 1.3v installs for me in windows 8 64bit with my NFB 15.32, been working good too.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote: 





genclaymore said:


> The 1.3v installs for me in windows 8 64bit with my NFB 15.32, been working good too.


 
  Are you able to use ASIO?  Thats my only issue.  I am running W8 64bit as well.  I can run all other modes with low buffers to perfection though and I don't hear a difference in quality between them.


----------



## genclaymore

Yes I can but with Certain programs, Like I can use it in Music players, but not FL studio.


----------



## musicinmymind

[size=10pt]Nuforce u192s arrived today after driver install I run them directly used from DS and first impression was rather not impressed….directly compared with USB difference was so small that you would need gold plated ears with a lining of silver hairs to pick it. Then I tried WASAPI and result was not good…somehow nuforce synergy with WASAPI was not good…USB was better. [/size]
   
  [size=10pt]Almost decided to return them and as last resort did try with KS and pleasantly surprised by the enhanced sq. it was like changing from 720p HDTV to 1080p…tuned up sharpness in sq 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





… u192u with KS produced a more prominent high end and also slightly more bass impact. USB was smoother and put the mids more up front. These were not subtle results and from what I described above, the treble was the most obvious difference between the two….my 650's and he400’s are singing now.[/size]
  [size=10pt]Thankyou @[/size]*[size=10.5pt]analog'd…[/size]*[size=10pt]very happy with the result 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


[/size]


----------



## analog'd

Quote: 





musicinmymind said:


> [size=10pt]Nuforce u192s arrived today after driver install I run them directly used from DS and first impression was rather not impressed….directly compared with USB difference was so small that you would need gold plated ears with a lining of silver hairs to pick it. Then I tried WASAPI and result was not good…somehow nuforce synergy with WASAPI was not good…USB was better. [/size]
> 
> [size=10pt]Almost decided to return them and as last resort did try with KS and pleasantly surprised by the enhanced sq. it was like changing from 720p HDTV to 1080p…tuned up sharpness in sq
> 
> ...


 
  glad it wasn't a washout. surprised at the wasapi result as here wasapi and ks are very close in sound quality. but results were a little different from 1 pc to another. go figure...i plan to get the new jk unit pretty soon and will let you know how the u192s stands up to that. but for now i am blown away at how good my rig is sounding with the nuforce.


----------



## scorpionro

AudioGD just released a new driver ( v 2.0 ) and a new firmware as well ( #7 ).


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Tried the new firmware and the new driver. While there are some improvements in the sonics (better separation, soundstage and refinement), there's a new bug or strange behaviour. My DI-V3s is used as the primary output from my PC. When I first installed the new driver, output from Foobar ASIO works fine. However, afterusing other programs which routes through the WDM driver, the ASIO stops working. Foobar will display a message stating the virtual ASIO driver is not found. This does not happen with Wasapi output. Rebooting the PC or switching on-off the DI does not restore the ASIO functionality anymore. It's rather annoying because this didn't happen previously. And I prefer the output via ASIO because it sounds the best (to my ears). Hope this is fixed with a later update.

 UPDATE:
   
  Fixed the problem! Rather silly mistake. I went and changed the name of the device in the sound control panel properties from Digital Interface to DI-V3. After removing all the drivers and reinstalling again, the functionality for ASIO is restored. No problems watsoever. Itchy fingers!.


----------



## hawkhead

The stupidity just NEVER ENDS
   
  Tried to configure ASIO in Foobar and no channels appear (and it's no use trying the control panel because that won't load)
   
  So load the VIA ASIO control panel manually after quitting Foobar and the interface is not ticked - tick that
   
  Now Foobar can create the channels OK - but NO SOUND when playing


----------



## jimmychan

Quote: 





rhythmic_impulse said:


> Tried the new firmware and the new driver. While there are some improvements in the sonics (better separation, soundstage and refinement), there's a new bug or strange behaviour. My DI-V3s is used as the primary output from my PC. When I first installed the new driver, output from Foobar ASIO works fine. However, afterusing other programs which routes through the WDM driver, the ASIO stops working. Foobar will display a message stating the virtual ASIO driver is not found. This does not happen with Wasapi output. Rebooting the PC or switching on-off the DI does not restore the ASIO functionality anymore. It's rather annoying because this didn't happen previously. And I prefer the output via ASIO because it sounds the best (to my ears). Hope this is fixed with a later update.
> 
> UPDATE:
> 
> Fixed the problem! Rather silly mistake. I went and changed the name of the device in the sound control panel properties from Digital Interface to DI-V3. After removing all the drivers and reinstalling again, the functionality for ASIO is restored. No problems watsoever. Itchy fingers!.


 
  How to obtain the new firmware #7?


----------



## scorpionro

AudioGD seems to have taken down the announcement from their home page. I think you can still get FW#7 from http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/Compass%202/Compass384EN.htm ( download the v2.0 package for USB32 ). I've tried FW #7 with SBT / EDO, but it's a no go. You get sound, but it's full of "cracklings".


----------



## realmassy

I must be very lucky guys...never had problems in the past. I've downloaded and installed the new drivers, updated the firmware and the sound is just fine!! But I'm using a usb32 dac: at this point I think the problem is with the DI, despite using the same chipset.


----------



## Kingwa

We have got few users feeback update the firmware fail, so we are afraid make the trouble to users.
  We have bough the SBT from HongKong since 20th April but the saller still have not shipping to us.
   
  Any users can update the firmware. But consider the fail risk and read the guide careful.
   
  USB32 V2.0 driver
 1, ASIO can select support up to 32bit (for DAC ) and up to 24bit (for DI-V3)
 2, Support 32bit 384KHz (Some DA model may can't support 384K playback)
 3, Firmware update (Must update the firmware for work with V2.0 driver)  for mac , Windows ,Linux (test ) (A lot users had update succeed, but few users have fail and want to buy the new Firmware , price is USD1 exclude shipping cost.)
    Download the USB32 V2.0 driver:   http://www.audio-gd.com/AudiogdUSB32v2.0forwin.rar
    Download the USB32 V2.0 driver install guide :  http://www.audio-gd.com/Driver%20install%20guide.rar
    Download the firmware update tool :  http://www.audio-gd.com/USB32firmware.rar


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Quote: 





realmassy said:


> I must be very lucky guys...never had problems in the past. I've downloaded and installed the new drivers, updated the firmware and the sound is just fine!! But I'm using a usb32 dac: at this point I think the problem is with the DI, despite using the same chipset.


 
  Just to chime in. I've updated to the DI, and have no problems at all. Other than a silly mistake which I did earlier. At this point tin time, I can only say the update brought some improvements in the soundstage (wider, deeper), balanced in timbre, better layering and separation of instruments and bass seems to have more texture. One thing I like using via ASIO is how analogue sounding is the whole set-up now.


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





scorpionro said:


> AudioGD seems to have taken down the announcement from their home page. I think you can still get FW#7 from http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/Compass%202/Compass384EN.htm ( download the v2.0 package for USB32 ). I've tried FW #7 with SBT / EDO, but it's a no go. You get sound, but it's full of "cracklings".


 
   
  Firmware #7 should be Asynchronous only then.
  I wish someone could update the EDO custom kernel with the ALSA patch that's been release weeks ago... It probably would fix the issues with the VIA chip and finally allow async to work...


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





rhythmic_impulse said:


> Just to chime in. I've updated to the DI, and have no problems at all. Other than a silly mistake which I did earlier. At this point tin time, I can only say the update brought some improvements in the soundstage (wider, deeper), balanced in timbre, better layering and separation of instruments and bass seems to have more texture. One thing I like using via ASIO is how analogue sounding is the whole set-up now.


 
  Good! I'm glad someone else has done it 
  And i completely agree with you about the sound improvement. From what I heard yesterday it was about better dynamics and bass control...cello pizzicatos never sounded this gorgeous


----------



## rdsu

I will try my luck this night... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  It would be nice if Audio-gd tell us the change log of this firmwares/drivers upgrades...


----------



## patkwok

Dear all,
   
  Are there any linux driver for the TE8802?
   
  Many thanks.


----------



## i019791

Quote: 





patkwok said:


> Dear all,
> 
> Are there any linux driver for the TE8802?
> 
> Many thanks.


 
  No (according to Audio gd site)


----------



## patkwok

i019791 said:


> No (according to Audio gd site)




It is really disapponited and I can't run linux for my CAS.


----------



## thegrobe

Is there any advantage to using the DI-V3 if your Audio-GD DAC already has the USB-32 module? (current SA-1.32, SA-2, etc)
   
  With or without additional power supply, etc? 
   
  Thanks!


----------



## SidiousX

@ Thegrobe
  Its usually not that bad idea, to check product description page. Anyhow straight from the horse's mouth
*http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/DIv3/DIv3EN.htm*
  "[size=x-small]6，Advice the  users who own audio-gd DACs had built in USB-32 don't want upgrade to the DI-V3 .[/size]"


----------



## thegrobe

Quote: 





sidiousx said:


> @ Thegrobe
> Its usually not that bad idea, to check product description page. Anyhow straight from the horse's mouth
> *http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/DIv3/DIv3EN.htm*
> "[size=x-small]6，Advice the  users who own audio-gd DACs had built in USB-32 don't want upgrade to the DI-V3 .[/size]"


 
  Ah, yes. I looked over the product page but must have missed that. Thanks for the heads-up. I wonder then the DAC's that have the USB-32 built in, if there is any reason to mod the power supply (as in the DI-PSU) or if it's all self contained in the unit.


----------



## SidiousX

There is no reason at all, USB-32 board draw power from inside the DAC, so its nice and dandy, or clean as you prefer. The only soft mod, which ppl reported as impacting sonic in good way was, was isolatation  of power pin in usb cable (isolation tape). Thread NFB-1.32 if i'm not mistaken.


----------



## Pacha

Apart from driver changes, what can be expected from firmware 7 VS previous firmware versions?
   
  Regards
   
  Quote: 





kingwa said:


> We have got few users feeback update the firmware fail, so we are afraid make the trouble to users.
> We have bough the SBT from HongKong since 20th April but the saller still have not shipping to us.
> 
> Any users can update the firmware. But consider the fail risk and read the guide careful.
> ...


 
   
  Kingwa (or whoever who may know).


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





thegrobe said:


> Is there any advantage to using the DI-V3 if your Audio-GD DAC already has the USB-32 module? (current SA-1.32, SA-2, etc)
> 
> With or without additional power supply, etc?
> 
> Thanks!


 
   
  The main advantage of running the built-in USB-32 in your DAC is that it's connected in I2S instead of coax. Only few DAC can support external I2S signals through RJ45 pors (Master 7 is one of them, the others I didn't check).


----------



## blitzxgene

Quote: 





pacha said:


> Apart from driver changes, what can be expected from firmware 7 VS previous firmware versions?
> 
> Regards
> 
> ...


 
   
  I noticed a fairly welcome change in the soundstage, specifically that it widened and the location of instruments in that soundstage have more depth and separation compared to before. Certain songs like the opening theme from metal gear solid 2 actually sound correct and no longer overcompressed (not sure how that works, but it's the first time I've heard it played back and everything just sounded "right"). The quality of the bass (the texture of it) is also better as well as a less sharp treble, if that's what i'm hearing correctly. Sibilance seems a little less as well. 
   
  In a nutshell I'd use the word layering to describe what this firmware did for me at least. Lots of delicious layers.


----------



## genclaymore

Quote: 





blitzxgene said:


> I noticed a fairly welcome change in the soundstage, specifically that it widened and the location of instruments in that soundstage have more depth and separation compared to before. Certain songs like the opening theme from metal gear solid 2 actually sound correct and no longer overcompressed (not sure how that works, but it's the first time I've heard it played back and everything just sounded "right"). The quality of the bass (the texture of it) is also better as well as a less sharp treble, if that's what i'm hearing correctly. Sibilance seems a little less as well.
> 
> In a nutshell I'd use the word layering to describe what this firmware did for me at least. Lots of delicious layers.


 

 That was the first thing I notice was the sound stage, I also notice that the sound did improve else where as well.


----------



## Ajwaldo

Quote: 





blitzxgene said:


> I noticed a fairly welcome change in the soundstage, specifically that it widened and the location of instruments in that soundstage have more depth and separation compared to before. Certain songs like the opening theme from metal gear solid 2 actually sound correct and no longer overcompressed (not sure how that works, but it's the first time I've heard it played back and everything just sounded "right"). The quality of the bass (the texture of it) is also better as well as a less sharp treble, if that's what i'm hearing correctly. Sibilance seems a little less as well.
> 
> In a nutshell I'd use the word layering to describe what this firmware did for me at least. Lots of delicious layers.


 
  Just interested if your DI was running in asynchronous mode with the previous drivers? My DI would previously run only in adaptive mode with the squeezebox Touch. I sold the Touch and I have now built my own server running on a stripped down Win 7 which the DI-V3 runs async for the first time and exhibits all of the qualities you have described above. I was wondering if you experienced this improvement over #3,#4 or#5 firmware in Async mode? 
  Just by the way my server was built around an Asus AT4NM10T-I motherbd, Silverstone LC-19 case, SOtM tX-usbexp card, WD-1TB green HDD,
  4GB ram,Win 7, JRiver Music server, Jremote.


----------



## blitzxgene

Quote: 





ajwaldo said:


> Just interested if your DI was running in asynchronous mode with the previous drivers? My DI would previously run only in adaptive mode with the squeezebox Touch. I sold the Touch and I have now built my own server running on a stripped down Win 7 which the DI-V3 runs async for the first time and exhibits all of the qualities you have described above. I was wondering if you experienced this improvement over #3,#4 or#5 firmware in Async mode?
> Just by the way my server was built around an Asus AT4NM10T-I motherbd, Silverstone LC-19 case, SOtM tX-usbexp card, WD-1TB green HDD,
> 4GB ram,Win 7, JRiver Music server, Jremote.


 
   
  I don't have a DI-V3, but a Reference 10.32 with the DI-V3 built in (pretty much everything from audio-gd now uses usb-32). Same drivers everyone else is using but also a dac/hp amp/pre-amp. I'd tried to use firmware #3 on the spare firmware chip sent with my unit before, but it my computer wouldn't recognize it at all, so I went back to firmware #4 chip. When I went to firmware #7 I flashed it onto the non-functioning #3 driver chip because I figured if that didn't work I'd just stick with firmware #4. As for the software/driver versions I ran with success, I've used 1.22, 1.3, and now 2.0. 
   
  As for asynch vs adaptive, after reading some threads I thought Kingwa commented that all firmwares were asynch. Maybe I read that wrong, but that was the impression I was under. Even if that's not true I have no idea which mode it's actually running in. As for the separation of instruments, it is definitely there on the previous drivers but what I'm hearing on #7 (for my setup at least) was a game changer in realism. Things sounded accurate and right, and there was plenty of separation with depth, but everything is much more defined on #7. To put in another set of words, everything sounds like bubbles floating around (when mixed that way) that pop and play the specific notes in time in a holographic dome. Even on complicated passages with multiple instruments playing literally everything is in it's own detailed little bubble, meaning you don't even have to think to listen to specific passages. Not only that, but everything just sort of "pops" as if it was the only thing playing. Each instrument is so detailed that each section could be it's own solo piece if everything else were to stop, but the thing is everything is playing at once. Parts of this explanation might be due to my specific setup however, but i'm hearing all these things after a simple driver update. I've never heard anything like it before this.
   
   
  Based on reviews I've read on the DI-V3 beating audiophilleos and losing only to the berkeley alpha usb (google that for a price check), I believe that firmware #7 might have actually propelled the DI-V3 to or over the berkeley unit. Just from a free driver update. What the V3 has is great musicality but not as much detail as other usb boxes. Firmware #7 fixes that in my mind. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  (For the record, I'm running on a oc'd ivy bridge rig in a fractal design full tower case (because I almost can't hear it))
  (Probably Final Edit: It's much easier to hear the differences on speakers over my denons at least. Not that I use my denons much anymore.)


----------



## Ajwaldo

Quote: 





blitzxgene said:


> I don't have a DI-V3, but a Reference 10.32 with the DI-V3 built in (pretty much everything from audio-gd now uses usb-32). Same drivers everyone else is using but also a dac/hp amp/pre-amp. I'd tried to use firmware #3 on the spare firmware chip sent with my unit before, but it my computer wouldn't recognize it at all, so I went back to firmware #4 chip. When I went to firmware #7 I flashed it onto the non-functioning #3 driver chip because I figured if that didn't work I'd just stick with firmware #4. As for the software/driver versions I ran with success, I've used 1.22, 1.3, and now 2.0.
> 
> As for asynch vs adaptive, after reading some threads I thought Kingwa commented that all firmwares were asynch. Maybe I read that wrong, but that was the impression I was under. Even if that's not true I have no idea which mode it's actually running in. As for the separation of instruments, it is definitely there on the previous drivers but what I'm hearing on #7 (for my setup at least) was a game changer in realism. Things sounded accurate and right, and there was plenty of separation with depth, but everything is much more defined on #7. To put in another set of words, everything sounds like bubbles floating around (when mixed that way) that pop and play the specific notes in time in a holographic dome. Even on complicated passages with multiple instruments playing literally everything is in it's own detailed little bubble, meaning you don't even have to think to listen to specific passages. Not only that, but everything just sort of "pops" as if it was the only thing playing. Each instrument is so detailed that each section could be it's own solo piece if everything else were to stop, but the thing is everything is playing at once. Parts of this explanation might be due to my specific setup however, but i'm hearing all these things after a simple driver update. I've never heard anything like it before this.
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks a million for that, convinced me to flash it over #3 Firmware, I'm running #4 at the moment although it does sound great. It sounded great before I added the SOtM USB PCIexp
  card. The card made it more spacious, and instruments more defined.
  Kingwa Knows that some of the firmware did not work in asynch with the chipset in the Squeezebox Touch and is working on it.( One firmware didnt work at all and the other worked only in adaptive mode as identified on the Touch screen) I decided not to wait and made my own server, selling the touch.
  I did not want to sell the DI-V3 as I thought it had great potential for the price.
  For the record my server sends it to the DI-V3 >Metrum Octave DAC>Perreaux 350W Amp>Theophany M5 Speakers, I hand make all my interconnects.
  Thanks again


----------



## hubee

Hi all,
   
  i'm thinking to buy a DI-V3. But i've only a Mac Mini with OSX MLion in my hifi rig ... Is here anybody who use a DI-V3 with latest OSX 10.8.x ? Is it stable and works flawlessly?


----------



## Nuttinbutair

I am using a DI-V3 with a Mac Mini 2011 running OSX 10.8.X.  It is stable and works beautifully, but there is only one wart.  Its USB input is capable of 32 bit, and my audio midi seems to default to that.  The SPDF output is only 24 bit.  So to play through iTunes, I have to set the audio midi to 24 bit.  Normally I play through Audirvana Plus which now has a setting in the preferences to limit the output to 24 bit.  Once set, I don't have to think about it anymore: flawless.


----------



## hubee

Quote: 





nuttinbutair said:


> I am using a DI-V3 with a Mac Mini 2011 running OSX 10.8.X.  It is stable and works beautifully, but there is only one wart.  Its USB input is capable of 32 bit, and my audio midi seems to default to that.  The SPDF output is only 24 bit.  So to play through iTunes, I have to set the audio midi to 24 bit.  Normally I play through Audirvana Plus which now has a setting in the preferences to limit the output to 24 bit.  Once set, I don't have to think about it anymore: flawless.


 

 Thanks!


----------



## Kingwa

*[size=small]SBT setting for the USB DAC connect , VIA engineers have confirm with Logitech .[/size]*

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?94512-Announce-Enhanced-Digital-Output-app-USB-Dac-and-192k-Digital-Ouput


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





kingwa said:


> *[size=small]SBT setting for the USB DAC connect , VIA engineers have confirm with Logitech .[/size]*
> 
> http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?94512-Announce-Enhanced-Digital-Output-app-USB-Dac-and-192k-Digital-Ouput


 
   
  What did VIA confirm? Is there a new version of Enhanced Digital Output that work with USB-32 in async mode?
   
  Last time I tried, neither firmware #4 nor #7 work with my SBT: I get choppy sound.
   
  Firmware #3 works fine but in adaptive mode only.


----------



## superedu24

Hi everybody...i'm new to this forum...
   
  Yesterday after failed and "fried" the default FIRMWARE tring to update to firmware #7, i emailed  mr. Kingwa, and he answered me instantly,...and i meant INSTANTLY,..., and after 3- 4 emails with him...i've got the spare firmware updated to firmware #7 with not issues at all...., (more detail, wider soundstage and deeper bass). Probably the fastest client support ever!!...VIVA AUDIO GD!!


----------



## Ajwaldo

Quote: 





blitzxgene said:


> I don't have a DI-V3, but a Reference 10.32 with the DI-V3 built in (pretty much everything from audio-gd now uses usb-32). Same drivers everyone else is using but also a dac/hp amp/pre-amp. I'd tried to use firmware #3 on the spare firmware chip sent with my unit before, but it my computer wouldn't recognize it at all, so I went back to firmware #4 chip. When I went to firmware #7 I flashed it onto the non-functioning #3 driver chip because I figured if that didn't work I'd just stick with firmware #4. As for the software/driver versions I ran with success, I've used 1.22, 1.3, and now 2.0.
> 
> As for asynch vs adaptive, after reading some threads I thought Kingwa commented that all firmwares were asynch. Maybe I read that wrong, but that was the impression I was under. Even if that's not true I have no idea which mode it's actually running in. As for the separation of instruments, it is definitely there on the previous drivers but what I'm hearing on #7 (for my setup at least) was a game changer in realism. Things sounded accurate and right, and there was plenty of separation with depth, but everything is much more defined on #7. To put in another set of words, everything sounds like bubbles floating around (when mixed that way) that pop and play the specific notes in time in a holographic dome. Even on complicated passages with multiple instruments playing literally everything is in it's own detailed little bubble, meaning you don't even have to think to listen to specific passages. Not only that, but everything just sort of "pops" as if it was the only thing playing. Each instrument is so detailed that each section could be it's own solo piece if everything else were to stop, but the thing is everything is playing at once. Parts of this explanation might be due to my specific setup however, but i'm hearing all these things after a simple driver update. I've never heard anything like it before this.
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks again, I did flash the #7 FW on to the redundant chip and yes noticed all the characteristics you mentioned,  surprised but pleasantly so. I am using kernal streaming on Jriver, can't seem to get ASIO working, but can't imagine it would be better, this so much better than the Squeezebox Touch set-up I used to own, how did I put up with it for so long....perhaps it was great value..but. Happy listening. Oh Many Thanks to Mr Kingwa too, well done.


----------



## blitzxgene

Quote: 





ajwaldo said:


> Thanks again, I did flash the #7 FW on to the redundant chip and yes noticed all the characteristics you mentioned,  surprised but pleasantly so. I am using kernal streaming on Jriver, can't seem to get ASIO working, but can't imagine it would be better, this so much better than the Squeezebox Touch set-up I used to own, how did I put up with it for so long....perhaps it was great value..but. Happy listening. Oh Many Thanks to Mr Kingwa too, well done.


 
   
  ASIO does seem to make the sound more "organic" in a word. Kernal Streaming sounds 2nd best, 3rd would be wasapi. Also, I switched to Jriver because I noticed an increased sense of depth that probably comes from the bit depth being upsampled and outputed at 32 bits. It locks it in as that for ASIO but you could set that manually for other modes (unless the recent update took that selection feature away). 
   
  (I'd noticed the differences for ASIO when using foobar previously, when I was using no forms of upsampling)


----------



## anton2dan

How would you guys compare the DI-v3 with and without the dedicated PSU ? Without the PSU is it still comparable with the audiophilleos ?
  Would also a good 3rd party linear PSU improve the DI-v3 ?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Ajwaldo

Quote: 





anton2dan said:


> How would you guys compare the DI-v3 with and without the dedicated PSU ? Without the PSU is it still comparable with the audiophilleos ?
> Would also a good 3rd party linear PSU improve the DI-v3 ?
> 
> Thanks.


 
  From my point of view the Audio-GD PSU made hardly a noticeable difference running with both V1 and V3, but in saying that I only tried with my old SBTouch based system, which was not as revealing as my present dedicated server set-up . I now run the V3 without the PSU and I'm really happy with it while running the new #7 firmware, it punches way above its weight. I am not familiar with the Audiophilleos though I did consider it before buying the V3, but I did not think it good value based on the reviews. Like it was 3X times the price too,


----------



## Kingwa

[size=x-small]SBT update guide (test version) for download, had test succeed by VIA company , please consider the update risk or waiting some users finished test  then make the decide.[/size]
  [size=x-small]We are advice who well know on the SBT and the firmware update to do this process, and feedback on here or send email to us.[/size]
  [size=x-small]Thanks.[/size]
 [size=x-small]Download the update guide for SBT[/size]


----------



## scorpionro

I just flashed FW #8 ( #7 version, tweaked for SBT + EDO ) and I can confirm that it's working in ASYNC mode with the SBT without any problems so far.
   
  PS: I've also tested by switching back and forth between 16 / 44.1, 24 / 96 and 24 / 192 material and I didn't encounter any problems.


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





scorpionro said:


> I just flashed FW #8 ( #7 version, tweaked for SBT + EDO ) and I can confirm that it's working in ASYNC mode with the SBT without any problems so far.
> 
> PS: I've also tested by switching back and forth between 16 / 44.1, 24 / 96 and 24 / 192 material and I didn't encounter any problems.


 
   
  So, there's a specific firmware after all!
  I didn't see it in my Firmware package. I didn't see a note on Audio-GD website either...
   
  I'll try firmware #8 then


----------



## mojolo

Quote: 





pacha said:


> DI-V3S just received.
> 
> 
> I switched connectors inside the DI to have current technolgy going through RCA instead of BNC.
> ...


 
  I would also like to make use of the current technology, but my DAC only has RCA inputs. So is this a relatively easy mod once you deal with the glue? You just unplug the RCA connectors and plug them into the side offering current technology, no soldering required?
   
  Also, would this solution be better than buying a cable such as the Mark Grant G1000HD Digital Coax BNC to Phono? This BNC-RCA cable is terminated with Canare ~75ohm RCA connectors at one end.


----------



## rdsu

Quote: 





mojolo said:


> Also, would this solution be better than buying a cable such as the Mark Grant G1000HD Digital Coax BNC to Phono? This BNC-RCA cable is terminated with Canare ~75ohm RCA connectors at one end.


 
  I use this solution, and it's better than RCA to RCA...


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





clemmaster said:


> So, there's a specific firmware after all!
> I didn't see it in my Firmware package. I didn't see a note on Audio-GD website either...
> 
> I'll try firmware #8 then


 
   
  And firmware #3 works like a charm! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  @Kingwa: you should make it clear in your SBT setup guide that the *firmware #8 is required*! I didn't even have it in the Firmware upgrade tool package I downloaded weeks ago.
  You should rename the package with a specific name or date.
   
  Thanks again!


----------



## tim3320070

People with the 8022 should try the new V1.2 firmware just released. I will do a comparo with this (in DI-V2 DSP) vs the USB32 (built-in NFB10SE) soon.


----------



## thegrobe

I have a couple question regarding the USB-32 setup. Thanks in advance for any answers.
   
  I am using firmware #7,driver 2.0. Windows 7 and J river. Everything installed correctly, I am getting 44.1, 96K, etc passthrough depending on source. Adjustments made in the Envy control panel show up in DAC's windows properties.
   
  The only thing that seems strange is the windows volume slider still can control volume/mute. Is this correct? Other ASIO DAC's I have used lock that out. So it seems this is going through the windows control panel. I thought ASIO bypassed that completely? Is everyone else  having this or did I do something wrong?
   
  I would like the volume slider to be inactive with ASIO
   
  Also, I can set the Envy/ Audio GD control panel to 32 bit (as recommended in the manual for my unit, SA-1.32 w/DSP-1) But what should I set the sample rate? The highest file qualities I have? It seems no matter where I set that it still passes native resolution through to the DAC according to J river. Is there any advantage to setting it to 192/ 384k or ???
   
  Thanks in advance.
   
  BTW- the setup sounds great, I just want to make sure it's optimized and I'm getting the best out of it.


----------



## Kingwa

About this question, I have discuss  several times with several engineers in VIA company from Shengzhen and Beijin through phones .
   
  Their replied is the volume just relate of the driver or firmware software , the VIA chip built in the volume can control by computer .
  I ask them if  remove the volume is good idea but they advice hold on the volume more convenient and  have not effect on sound quality.
   
  The first two version drivers, one is have volume control, another is without volume, the different only on the firwmare , based on machines and audition, no different .


----------



## thegrobe

Quote: 





kingwa said:


> About this question, I have discuss  several times with several engineers in VIA company from Shengzhen and Beijin through phones .
> 
> Their replied is the volume just relate of the driver or firmware software , the VIA chip built in the volume can control by computer .
> I ask them if  remove the volume is good idea but they advice hold on the volume more convenient and  have not effect on sound quality.
> ...


 
  Thanks Kingwa for the response. I just wanted to make sure I had it installed correctly, and so it sounds like I do.
   
  The firmware/driver combo works very well. It switches seamlessly between different sample rates, songs, etc. And has very low latency, very stable, and uses low system resources. Well done!
   
  And it sounds great! Wonderful!


----------



## thegrobe

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> People with the 8022 should try the new V1.2 firmware just released. I will do a comparo with this (in DI-V2 DSP) vs the USB32 (built-in NFB10SE) soon.


 
  I'm very curious about this, please post your thoughts. I just bought a secondhand SA-1 with the 8802 interface and immediately upgraded it to USB-32. The 8802 V1.1 drivers were problematic for me when I tried it briefly.


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





thegrobe said:


> I'm very curious about this, please post your thoughts. I just bought a secondhand SA-1 with the 8802 interface and immediately upgraded it to USB-32. The 8802 V1.1 drivers were problematic for me when I tried it briefly.


 
  It will be a few days- opened things up and accidentally dropped the old 8022 module (with the USB plug I needed) down my HVAC vent! I had to order some USB modules.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I have two unites they work just as good as my audiophileo . Anyway what is STB. Feature . 

Thanks
Al D


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





alrainbow said:


> I have two unites they work just as good as my audiophileo . Anyway what is STB. Feature .
> 
> Thanks
> Al D


 
   
  SBT? Squeezebox Touch


----------



## mojolo

I'm using the DI v3 with J River Media Center and I have issues. When using Wasapi event style, Kernel Streaming or Direct Sound  it randomly stops playing - the progress bar hangs at whatever position it's at and the music stops. I've tried Asio 4 all, it randomly drops out momentarily but then resumes playing on its own.
   
  I thought I'd resolved the problem by uninstalling & reinstalling the driver as it worked for about 5 days... but now the problem's back again. Tried un/re-installing the driver again but the problem's immediately returned. I'm guessing this is a driver problem... anyone else have this issue or know a resolution?
   
*System:*
  FW #7
  Driver v2.0
  Win7 x64


----------



## ciphercomplete

I finally got around to upgrading the firmware to #7 for my Master 7.  ASIO now works flawlessly.  I am running Windows 8 64bit with J River as my media player.  Sounds really good!  I am going to listen for a while before I make any comparisons.


----------



## mojolo

Quote: 





mojolo said:


> I'm using the DI v3 with J River Media Center and I have issues. When using Wasapi event style, Kernel Streaming or Direct Sound  it randomly stops playing - the progress bar hangs at whatever position it's at and the music stops. I've tried Asio 4 all, it randomly drops out momentarily but then resumes playing on its own.
> 
> I thought I'd resolved the problem by uninstalling & reinstalling the driver as it worked for about 5 days... but now the problem's back again. Tried un/re-installing the driver again but the problem's immediately returned. I'm guessing this is a driver problem... anyone else have this issue or know a resolution?
> 
> ...


 
  In case anyone else has a similar problem, I found out that it was a conflict between the DI v3 v2.0 driver and the wa7 driver. As long as I unplug the wa7 USB from my pc, the problem doesn't occur anymore. Having read various online reviews, it seems that many USB audio drivers in the wild right now aren't quite fully baked yet.


----------



## ktm777

.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Small update folks.

Firmware #7 and ASIO is simply awesome. The combo beats all the spdif inputs easy IMO. I believe i replaced firmware 4 and the superiority of #7 with ASIO over #4 with Kernel streaming is readily apparent. I have not tried kernel streaming on #7 yet. Well worth the small hassle of the firmware and driver upgrade.


----------



## Ajwaldo

Quote: 





mojolo said:


> I'm using the DI v3 with J River Media Center and I have issues. When using Wasapi event style, Kernel Streaming or Direct Sound  it randomly stops playing - the progress bar hangs at whatever position it's at and the music stops. I've tried Asio 4 all, it randomly drops out momentarily but then resumes playing on its own.
> 
> I thought I'd resolved the problem by uninstalling & reinstalling the driver as it worked for about 5 days... but now the problem's back again. Tried un/re-installing the driver again but the problem's immediately returned. I'm guessing this is a driver problem... anyone else have this issue or know a resolution?
> 
> ...


 
  I am using pretty much the same set-up though win7 x32, I have had a lot of problems trying to get JRiver to play in ASIO, but none of the above that you mention, most of the problems I have had are with the JRiver software, not the driver. Are you playing from memory or the HDD? Have you tried a larger buffer? I seem to have a lot of issues if I make changes to the JRiver settings then try to play I often get issues, which seem to get cured if I do a complete shutdown, the boot up again. There have also been 2 recent updates to JRiver MC18 which may coincide with your problems.


----------



## mojolo

Quote: 





ajwaldo said:


> I am using pretty much the same set-up though win7 x32, I have had a lot of problems trying to get JRiver to play in ASIO, but none of the above that you mention, most of the problems I have had are with the JRiver software, not the driver. Are you playing from memory or the HDD? Have you tried a larger buffer? I seem to have a lot of issues if I make changes to the JRiver settings then try to play I often get issues, which seem to get cured if I do a complete shutdown, the boot up again. There have also been 2 recent updates to JRiver MC18 which may coincide with your problems.


 
  You may be right... I'm playing from memory... haven't tried adjusting the buffer size.
   
  Unfortunately, the problem occurred again last night with J River so I was thinking of uninstalling the wa7 drivers altogether. I'll try Foobar first and see if the problem persists.
   
  EDIT: Well, I ended up updating JRiver instead. WASAPI wouldn't work anymore but I switched to Kernel Streaming 24bit integer mode and ta da... I think all is A-OK now. So yeah, seems like JRiver is having some issues on their end. And holy moly, the DI v3 is one sweet machine, amazing clarity, definition and instrument separation... jaw dropping (and this just on a mid-fi rig).


----------



## Kingwa

The DI-V3 have the newest firmware #10 (especial version for DI-V3) for update, it is improve on support the SBT  through USB .


----------



## jimmychan

Please provide the links.
   
  Thank you


----------



## jimmychan

Quote: 





kingwa said:


> The DI-V3 have the newest firmware #10 (especial version for DI-V3) for update, it is improve on support the SBT  through USB .


 
   
   
  Please provide the links.
   
  Thank you


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Quote: 





kingwa said:


> We have got few users feeback update the firmware fail, so we are afraid make the trouble to users.
> We have bough the SBT from HongKong since 20th April but the saller still have not shipping to us.
> 
> Any users can update the firmware. But consider the fail risk and read the guide careful.
> ...


 
  The Links are the same as above. I downloaded the Firmware file and it has firmware #10 in it.


----------



## Kingwa

[size=x-small]*And these links are the guides.*[/size]
   
  [size=x-small]*           [size=x-small]http://www.audio-gd.com/USB32firmware.rar[/size]*[/size]
   
  [size=x-small]*Firmware update introduce video download*
*           http://www.audio-gd.com/Update%20introduce%20video.rar*[/size]
   
*[size=x-small] Download the update guide for SBT: (If you don't want the audio-gd USB device connect to SBT through USB , don't need update )[/size]
 [size=x-small]           [size=x-small]http://www.audio-gd.com/SBT%20update%20and%20setting.rar[/size][/size]*


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





kingwa said:


> [size=x-small]*And these links are the guides.*[/size]
> 
> [size=x-small]*           [size=x-small]http://www.audio-gd.com/USB32firmware.rar[/size]*[/size]
> 
> ...


 
  Not sure if the firmware #10 is supposed to be for SBT only or for USB32 dacs too. Can you please clarify Kingwa?
  Thanks


----------



## Kingwa

The FW#9 is for the USB-32 DACs.
  The FW#10 is for the DI-V3.
  Both support SBT, Windows and mac.


----------



## thegrobe

kingwa said:


> The FW#9 is for the USB-32 DACs.
> The FW#10 is for the DI-V3.
> Both support SBT, Windows and mac.




Is it recommended to update fw#7 to fw#9 for a USB DAC using only Windows (no SBT)? If so, what are the improvements? Stability, etc?
Thanks!

Edit: Just saw on Audio-gd site to stay on original firmware if not using SBT.  Thanks.


----------



## Kingwa

The #7 and #9 are no different except the Linux support.
  We are advice if don't want support Linux and SBT don't need update for less bother on the upgrade.


----------



## fourwed

Some USB DACs could be driven directly by iPad + USB connector kit, I am talking about iPad 1 or 2 here but it could be applied to latest iPad with Retina display / iPad mini. Could someone test it?
   
  Details:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/507559/list-of-dacs-that-work-with-ipad
   
  Does it support Linux with ARM CPU with FW#10? I am thinking to use my Raspberry Pi to drive it.


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





fourwed said:


> Some USB DACs could be driven directly by iPad + USB connector kit, I am talking about iPad 1 or 2 here but it could be applied to latest iPad with Retina display / iPad mini. Could someone test it?
> 
> Details:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/507559/list-of-dacs-that-work-with-ipad
> ...


 
   
  The squeezebox touch has a ARM CPU, right?


----------



## scorpionro

All Squeezboxes have ARM CPUs, but as far as I know only the Squeezebox Touch has both an ARM CPU and Linux.


----------



## djordan

Yet another mini-review:
   
  I've had the DI-V3 (TCXO) + DI PSU for a few weeks now.
  USB Input comes from my Home Theater PC, and output goes to my Metrum Octave DA converter
Digital coaxial cable is a Canare LV-77S at 5 foot (consistent with the "minimum" length of 1.5M to avoid internal reflection - a controversial subject) and terminated with BNC (DI side) and RCA (Metrum DA side)
   
(The rest of my current system is a Sonic Frontiers tube preamp and a Topping TP60 amp driving a pair of Genesis Physics 320 speakers. Other amps include: Paradigm Halo A3 and B&K Pro 600. Other speakers are Celestion SL6 and SL600, Spica TC-50i and Infinity Kappa 7)
   
  I used to be a skeptic of jitter and digital noise affecting sound.
  I've been completely converted by the major improvement in sound quality with the DI.
  A noticeable amount of digital "grit" is gone - and in it's place more actual detail and better overall articulation of the recording. I'm pretty certain that Foobar in KS mode (which is now an output option with the Audio-gd ) is even better than WASAPI mode, but not 100% sure. 
In any event Foobar output of all files - compressed or otherwise - seems to be cleaner than streaming via MOG or other computer sources.
   
  Excellent product!


----------



## blitzxgene

Quote: 





djordan said:


> Yet another mini-review:
> 
> I've had the DI-V3 (TCXO) + DI PSU for a few weeks now.
> USB Input comes from my Home Theater PC, and output goes to my Metrum Octave DA converter
> ...


 
   
  If you're up to it, try a demo of Jriver media player software (and make sure to select all the upsampling options). I noticed an increase in depth on my speakers. Also, try to get the Asio driver for the DI-V3 working if you can. Lastly, update the DI-V3 to firmware #7 if it isn't already. 
   
  Each of these things will provide an increase in realism and soundstage. And based on what i've heard, you are correct that kernal streaming sounds better than wasapi. Enjoy!


----------



## djordan

Very cool... will give the Jriver player a shot.
   
Seeing KS available in Foobar was a pleasant surprise - I'm running Windows 7 Pro  and my prior attempts to get either ASIO or KS modes working weren't successful - but that was SPDIF of course - and USB works differently.
   
On the upsampling, I'm biased towards having digital playback configured for NOS (Non-oversampling) - 
  at least ever since I first heard the relatively inexpensive VALAB NOS unit (based on the early Philips chips) And I'm now using the better quality Metrum Acoustics NOS unit.
Still, I've experimented with Foobar's DSP upsampling modes and they seem to work well.
  Definitely worth trying out the highly rated Jriver player.
   
  I changed the firmware over to #10 a few days ago - went well just as in the video (as posted in this thread about a week ago).
   
  Question:
  Does anyone know of a way to configure *streaming media* - like MOG, Pandora, Spotify, etc. to be output via KS, Asio, or Wasapi modes?
  I'm pretty sure that the streaming media arrives at the computer in the native 44.1Khz - but then it's converted to the Windows 48Khz. I've experimented with a few streaming rippers and the files themselves are 44.1Khz (Pandora files, for examples are 44.1Khz streamed @ 192 kbps). 
Seems like there should be a way to stream radio - without the 48Khz conversion. I did see a post about using "Fidelify" to allow bit-perfect streaming with Spotify. Might try to revisit that.


----------



## jimmychan

I have difficulty to get firmware #7, #9 and #10 to run on SBT, I can only get the Adaptive mode to run on my SBT which is firmware #4?
   
  Anybody has the same problem as me? I tried reinstall the EDO kernel and the testing Kernel but made no difference
   
  Any suggestion that I can try?


----------



## Clemmaster

Firmware #10 is the one to use with the SBT + DIv3.
   
  I have no issues with firmware #9 on both my NFB-27 and NFB-15.32.
  The sound is a bit dull but that's a general observation with firmware >3. The #3 is my favorite by far.


----------



## JaMo

@ jimmychan
   
  I have tested alot with the different firmwares (#3-#10). I am using SlimServer 7.8.0 r16739, Triode's EDO w default Kernel.
   
  Firmware #3 gives a perfect working function in Adaptive mode.
   
  Firmware #4 wasn't working stable at all. Corrupt frequence and corrupt sound most tries.(didn't really support Linux/SBT) 
  Firmware #7 didn't support Linux/SBT...same result.
   
  Firmware #8 ..First with support for Linux/SBT...but with a 88.2 kHz-problem.
   
  Firmware #9  This one is well working in Asynchronous mode and it is the right choice SBT-DAC w VT1731 USB input. (32 bit)
   
  Firmware #10 Is developed for allowing DI-V3 to output SPDIF on coax-out (24 bít) when it's connected to the SBT.
  /Jan


----------



## fourwed

Quote: 





fourwed said:


> Some USB DACs could be driven directly by iPad + USB connector kit, I am talking about iPad 1 or 2 here but it could be applied to latest iPad with Retina display / iPad mini. Could someone test it?
> 
> Details:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/507559/list-of-dacs-that-work-with-ipad
> ...


 
   
  Could anyone please test and answer these questions?


----------



## reiserFS

It's been a while since I posted in my own thread, but I'm sort of wondering if a DI-V3 could improve the SPDIF output of my Macbook. Can any of you guys chime in and share some opinions?


----------



## blitzxgene

Quote: 





reiserfs said:


> It's been a while since I posted in my own thread, but I'm sort of wondering if a DI-V3 could improve the SPDIF output of my Macbook. Can any of you guys chime in and share some opinions?


 
   
  Well, the usb input on the DI-V3 would certainly sound better and be preferable to the spdif. As far as computer transports, it doesn't get much better.


----------



## reiserFS

Interesting, would you say it's worth getting the additional PSU?
  Quote: 





blitzxgene said:


> Well, the usb input on the DI-V3 would certainly sound better and be preferable to the spdif. As far as computer transports, it doesn't get much better.


----------



## blitzxgene

Quote: 





reiserfs said:


> Interesting, would you say it's worth getting the additional PSU?


 
   
  Based on everything I've heard/read, yes it is. You could always get a third party battery pack off ebay for cheap to do the same job though. http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/DIv3/DIv3EN_Custom.htm


----------



## reiserFS

Thanks for your input, wrote Audio-Gd a while ago asking for a price quote. 
  Quote: 





blitzxgene said:


> Based on everything I've heard/read, yes it is. You could always get a third party battery pack off ebay for cheap to do the same job though. http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/DIv3/DIv3EN_Custom.htm


----------



## ktm777

Quote: 





reiserfs said:


> Thanks for your input, wrote Audio-Gd a while ago asking for a price quote.


 
  From Audio-Gd site:  
  "We only have sale the DI-PSU , *we have not stock and sale the Lithium-ion battery *or universal DC power supply"


----------



## JuicyBruce

Quote: 





ktm777 said:


> From Audio-Gd site:
> "We only have sale the DI-PSU , *we have not stock and sale the Lithium-ion battery *or universal DC power supply"


 
   
  I may have had a hand in that. Li-ion batteries are restricted to import to Australia and AGD tried for a months to send mine before we worked out why they kept being rejected and returned.
  I didnt notice a difference between a battery and the PSU but the upgrade from USB power was a magical moment.


----------



## Kingwa

Both NFB11.32 and NFB15.32 which is shipping since 11th oct. 2012 can connect the SPDIF output , let it working as an USB to SPDIF conerter.
  The operate without solder necessary, just connect the RCA or BNC socket the output on board socket proper.
   
http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB11.32/NFB11.32EN_Custom.htm


----------



## blitzxgene

On an free/inexpensive side note for those of you that have a battery pack or the psu, try taping the outermost pins of your usb cable part that plugs into your computer (pins 1 and 4, the ground and +5V pins). You'd need something like an exacto knife as well as electrical tape for this. The reason being is that even though the DI-V3 doesn't draw power from usb when using the psu/battery, computer noise can still be sent along the cable. This idea came from head-fi user "somestranger26" in the reference 10 thread, so props go to him. (I've googled around and not everyone has reported a difference a crossed a wide range of usb enabled dacs. Some of those dacs required the ground be left un-taped to be recognized by windows/osx/linux, but that doesn't seem to be an issue with audio-gd usb32 systems. Just thought i'd spread the word.)


----------



## kr0gg

as far as i know in usb-32 case those pins aren't even connected while it's not being fed from PC.
  so, while in 99% of other usb-receivers this would give a result, in usb-32 case those actions are pretty useless


----------



## blitzxgene

Quote: 





kr0gg said:


> as far as i know in usb-32 case those pins aren't even connected while it's not being fed from PC.
> so, while in 99% of other usb-receivers this would give a result, in usb-32 case those actions are pretty useless


 
   
  The pins are still physically connected and could possibly send computer noise. Switching the DI-V3 from usb mode to psu mode doesn't magically disconnect the ground and +5V, it just doesn't use them to draw power for operation anymore. Just because the DI-V3 isn't drawing anything intentionally doesn't mean the computer itself isn't sending anything by accident.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





blitzxgene said:


> The pins are still physically connected and could possibly send computer noise. Switching the DI-V3 from usb mode to psu mode doesn't magically disconnect the ground and +5V


 
   
  It's a switch, nothing magical about it, when switched to DC IN, the contacts connect the power supply to DC IN and disconnect USB.  You know... like a switch.


----------



## thebathingape

I have a DI V1 w/PSU but never use it because the built in USB on my NFB-8 sounds better even though it isn't async. 

Just got a DI V3 a few days ago which I use with bnc to NFB-8 and it is a big step up in sound in every way.


----------



## Solude

I'd love to see John Darko's write up on the USB32 V3.  I believe he has his eye on revisiting the DI.  Love to hear where it stands beside the AP2 and Concero at 1/3 the price


----------



## bruiselee

hi guys,
  can someone explain to me what does this do?
   
  I'm currently on essence stx, but making a jump to the NFB 3.33 soon, just doing abit more research to see what else i need before i make the plunge to save on shipping.
   
  My set up is Computer, Speakers ( Adam A3X, Active Speakers). And when im using the NFB 3.33, it should be Comp > nfb 3.33 > speakers.
   
  how will this DI thing help? or its of no use to me


----------



## zenki14

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *bruiselee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> hi guys,
> can someone explain to me what does this do?
> ...


 
   
  The NFB-3.33 has USB-32 input (same as the DI) so I don't see any benefit getting the DI in your case.  You will be fine with PC > NFB-3.33 > speakers.
   
  The main purpose of a DI is to convert PC's USB to SPDIF coaxial output, then send that digital signal to a DAC with coaxial input.  Good for situations like, if you want to use USB but your DAC doesn't have USB and only has coax input.


----------



## Clemmaster

Do the Adam feature volume controle? The NFB-3.33 does not.


----------



## zenki14

Well A3X are active speakers, so they have volume control..


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





zenki14 said:


> Well A3X are active speakers, so they have volume control..


 
   
  All active monitors don't necessarily have (e.g. the Focal solo6 don't), hence my question


----------



## bruiselee

they do 
  but i control the volume via windows using hotkeys on my keyboard  (razer blackwidow) , i find it much easier than turning knobs.


----------



## zenki14

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Clemmaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> All active monitors don't necessarily have (e.g. the Focal solo6 don't), hence my question


 
   
  I wasn't aware of active speakers without volume control, but it was easy enough to google and find that the A3X have volume control anyway...


----------



## alcarp

Is there anyone out there using the DI-V3 with the Squeezebox Touch (SBT) and the EDO app with output from the USB port on the SBT and co-ax out from the DI-V3 into a DAC.
   
  SBT (USB) > DI-V3 > DAC (co-ax)
   
  I've tried it and can't get it to work. The DAC does not receive a signal. I am using firmware #10 as this is what King-wa advised.
   
  I tried an Audiophilleo 2 instead of the DI-V3 and it works fine so I know that the SBT (hardware & software) and the DAC work okay.
   
  The status of the Audio-GD on the SBT reads:
   
Status:Running
Speed: High
Connectivityirect
Type Asynch
Freq 44100
Format: S24-3LE
Rates: 44100 ...... 176000
Feedback Format: High
Interval: 25000


----------



## Clemmaster

Did you change the buffer size on the EDO setup or using Touch Toolbox 3.0?
   
  My DACs are working fine using firmware #9 (as recommanded for built-in USB32 modules).


----------



## alcarp

Quote: 





clemmaster said:


> Did you change the buffer size on the EDO setup or using Touch Toolbox 3.0?
> 
> My DACs are working fine using firmware #9 (as recommanded for built-in USB32 modules).


 
   
  No I did not change buffer size on the EDO setup and am not using Touch toolbox 3.0.
   
  I tried updating firmware from 7.7.x to 7.8 and that did not help either.
   
  Works fine if a mac or a PC is used as the source but not the SBT + EDO.


----------



## ktm777

alcarp said:


> No I did not change buffer size on the EDO setup and am not using Touch toolbox 3.0.
> 
> I tried updating firmware from 7.7.x to 7.8 and that did not help either.
> 
> Works fine if a mac or a PC is used as the source but not the SBT + EDO.



I have the same problem, tried mamy setups, finally gave up. Now I'm using SBT via COAX and laptop via USB. Maybe will send DI-V3 + SBT to local Audio-Gd dealer during my holidays, let them tryout to solve the problem.


----------



## reiserFS

Can someone explain the difference between the DI-DSP and DI?


----------



## tim3320070

The old DI had a DSP processor to reduce jitter, the new one does not need this chip because the new USB interface has very low jitter on it's own


----------



## reiserFS

So I just purchased a DI V3 with the TXCO from the French reseller. Is it just a matter of plugging out the old clock and plugging in the new one?


----------



## i019791

Quote: 





reiserfs said:


> So I just purchased a DI V3 with the TXCO from the French reseller. Is it just a matter of plugging out the old one and plugging in the new one?


 
  Yes, on Mac. You need to install drivers on Windows.


----------



## reiserFS

I'm talking about the clock inside the DI, not the drivers.
  Quote: 





i019791 said:


> Yes, on Mac. You need to install drivers on Windows.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





reiserfs said:


> I'm talking about the clock inside the DI, not the drivers.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes it is a matter of just swapping the clocks.. Be very careful about installation. Putting the clock in incorrectly will break it.


----------



## fourwed

I wish to introduce you the Squeezebox Touch replacement that I posted here:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/674236/squeezebox-touch-replacement-raspberry-pi-picoplayer
   
  It costs only $35 and it works with DI-V2 and older TE7022 based products by Audio-gd.
   
  If you have only been using PC as source like me, I am sure this solution will take you into another level. I compared it with 6 different PC and none of them even close to it.
   
  I will be great appreciated if anyone could test it on DI-V3 and give me comment.


----------



## reiserFS

Thanks for the advice regarding the clock. Can I use any 300ma 5-10v wallwart with the DI?


----------



## SidiousX

Quote: 





reiserfs said:


> So I just purchased a DI V3 with the TXCO from the French reseller. Is it just a matter of plugging out the old clock and plugging in the new one?


 
   
  Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> Yes it is a matter of just swapping the clocks.. Be very careful about installation. Putting the clock in incorrectly will break it.


 
   
  Quote: 





reiserfs said:


> Thanks for the advice regarding the clock. Can I use any 300ma 5-10v wallwart with the DI?


 
  There seems to be a misunderstanding. You should receive DI V3 with already preinstalled TCXO clock, not separate additional swapping clock. So it should not be any clock hassle for you. Concerning you power question. Following Audio-GD information site you will see b/m statement, which should answer your question.
http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/DIv3/DIv3EN_Custom.htm
  "*Universal DC power supply*
Power supply by A  GOOD QUALITY  universal DC power supply possible improved the sound quality  than some computer USB pot . The request of the universal DC power supply is output 5VDC to 9VDC (recommend 7.5V) , 1000mA power , with 5.5MM plug , the plug define is inside is DC +, outside is DC GND ."


----------



## reiserFS

I ordered from a french reseller though, as they sell the clock separately. 

I don't get the last part though about + and GND, how should it look like?

Edit: This should work right? http://m.conrad.de/ce/de/product/512721/Dehner-Elektronik-SYS-1381-080875V-W2E-EURO-Steckernetzteil-Steckernetzgeraet-75-VDC-1000-mA-8-Watt-Festspannung


----------



## fourwed

Quote: 





reiserfs said:


> I ordered from a french reseller though, as they sell the clock separately.
> 
> I don't get the last part though about + and GND, how should it look like?
> 
> Edit: This should work right? http://m.conrad.de/ce/de/product/512721/Dehner-Elektronik-SYS-1381-080875V-W2E-EURO-Steckernetzteil-Steckernetzgeraet-75-VDC-1000-mA-8-Watt-Festspannung


 
   
  Why do you power your DI-V3 with a switching power like this? It will not produce good sound because of the noise. You should look for a linear power supply instead, like the one sold by Audio-gd.


----------



## reiserFS

I'm not putting down 75 bucks if I can just use a wallwart. Any recommendation for european users?
  Quote: 





fourwed said:


> Why do you power your DI-V3 with a switching power like this? It will not produce good sound because of the noise. You should look for a linear power supply instead, like the one sold by Audio-gd.


----------



## Clemmaster

reiserfs said:


> I'm not putting down 75 bucks if I can just use a wallwart. Any recommendation for european users?



Following your reasoning, you already put down 150 then.
Power supply makes a big difference, if you don't want a quality one, then you'd better stick with USB power.
Unless you're using a device that cannot supply 500mA?


----------



## JecklinStax

I have exactly the same problem too! Firmware #10 is installed. SBT recognizes the DIV3 via usb output, but the dac gets no sound. Usb from pc works perfectly. Coax from SBT too. If someone finds a solution (KingWa?) I would be very happy to hear it.


----------



## JecklinStax

Forgot to mention: replied to alcarp en ktm777


----------



## sayh

Quote: 





reiserfs said:


> I'm not putting down 75 bucks if I can just use a wallwart. Any recommendation for european users?


 
  A common wallwart is worse than plugging into USB direct.
  A better wallwart might be worse or just equivalent to plugging into USB direct.
  A good quality one is likely to be nearer to 75 bucks probably.
  Hand over 75bucks or pay nothing at all, plug into USB direct IMHO.
  Some people cant even hear a difference even with 75bucks handed over.


----------



## fourwed

Quote: 





sayh said:


> A common wallwart is worse than plugging into USB direct.
> A better wallwart might be worse or just equivalent to plugging into USB direct.
> A good quality one is likely to be nearer to 75 bucks probably.
> Hand over 75bucks or pay nothing at all, plug into USB direct IMHO.
> Some people cant even hear a difference even with 75bucks handed over.


 
   
  IMHO, those who have DI-PSU please consider to buy / tailor-made a DC-DC cable between your DI and PSU.
   
  My colleague bought DI-PSU a while ago and I think it was worse than Lithium battery for it lacks of the clarity. He then DIY a few cables and finally made one with inexpensive industrial power cable. Once switched to that DIY cable, it is as good as my best lithium battery. I must say that the DI-PSU did a very good job here but the full potential is waited to be unleashed.
   
  Lithium batteries are not born equal too. I tested a few lithium batteries and my opinions are:
   
  1. SANYO 18650 lithium battery provides a clearer / cleaner sound than USB but lacks of the dynamics and bass. I wonder if it is due to a lack of max. discharge rate, which is 2C only. Another colleague advise me to add a few capacitors and I will test it later.
   
  2. E_sky 20C lithium battery for Remote controlled toys sounds the best amongst the batteries I have tested.
   
  3. Another no branded 20C lithium battery, for I don't know why, tends to have a noticeable blur sound compared to E_sky.


----------



## alcarp

Quote: 





jecklinstax said:


> Forgot to mention: replied to alcarp en ktm777


 
   
  @Jecklin Stax
   
  Have not recd. your personal message. What does "en ktm77" mean?


----------



## JecklinStax

I'm sorry I did not make myself clear. 'en' is Dutch for 'and'. 'ktm777' posted the same problem as you and I have: Although we have firmware #10 in the DI-V3, we still don't get music from the USB output of the SBT!


----------



## ktm777

Quote: 





jecklinstax said:


> I'm sorry I did not make myself clear. 'en' is Dutch for 'and'. 'ktm777' posted the same problem as you and I have: Although we have firmware #10 in the DI-V3, we still don't get music from the USB output of the SBT!


 
  As I wrote before, I'll probably send my SBT and DI-V3 to the Audio-Gd service in the mid of September. As I know there are at least two service workshops in Europe - in Poland (were I live) and in France (Audiophonics[size=small]). [/size][size=x-small] If they will find solution, I'll let you know [/size]


----------



## reiserFS

Does A-GD provide a coax cable with the DI?


----------



## i019791

Quote: 





reiserfs said:


> Does A-GD provide a coax cable with the DI?


 
  Only as an extra


----------



## reiserFS

Alright, so I got the DI-V3 and PSU in. Besides the clock, there was another socket thing that came with it that looked like the one near the usb board connector (the green one) as seen in this picture:
   

   
  What do I use that for?


----------



## zenki14

That should be the spare firmware chip of the USB32.  Don't have to worry about it for now, just keep it as a spare.  That's what I've been told in the email when they sent out the 10ES2 to me.


----------



## sayh

Quote: 





reiserfs said:


> Alright, so I got the DI-V3 and PSU in. Besides the clock, there was another socket thing that came with it that looked like the one near the usb board connector (the green one) as seen in this picture:
> 
> What do I use that for?


 
   
  The small green pcb was the USB32 firmware, which determine the functionality of the USB output.
  You may swap or flash it to hear differences sound wise. More for those who uses SBT EDO.


----------



## reiserFS

Oh, I see. That actually makes sense. The unit actually gets quite hot (probably due to class A), do you think it's a good idea to stack it ontop of a NFB-5?
  Quote: 





zenki14 said:


> That should be the spare firmware chip of the USB32.  Don't have to worry about it for now, just keep it as a spare.  That's what I've been told in the email when they sent out the 10ES2 to me.


----------



## zenki14

If I had a DI, I probably wouldn't stack it on another GD gear, but, as long as the NFB-5 has enough breathing space on most sides it shouldn't cause trouble. Keep the vent holes on the top side uncovered.
   
  Quote: 





reiserfs said:


> Oh, I see. That actually makes sense. The unit actually gets quite hot (probably due to class A), do you think it's a good idea to stack it ontop of a NFB-5?


----------



## reiserFS

The DI-V3 is now listed as discontinued.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





reiserfs said:


> The DI-V3 is now listed as discontinued.


 
   
  Huh! Very interesting. I would assume there will be a successor. These units are fairly popular.


----------



## reiserFS

Definitely, and just as I got one! 
  Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> Huh! Very interesting. I would assume there will be a successor. These units are fairly popular.


----------



## rdsu

Quote: 





reiserfs said:


> The DI-V3 is now listed as discontinued.


 

 DDC's had a very limited lifetime from Audio-gd...
   
  What is this mean? Did not meet the expectations? Time to change to another USB asynchronous chip? Drivers/Firmware? Audio-gd will no longer make any DDC?
   
  I know that this technology has had a great development, but...
   
  If a new one is coming, do you know if the current DI-V3 can be upgradable to the new one?


----------



## reiserFS

To be honest, I don't really know about that since I haven't contacted Kingwa yet.
  Quote: 





rdsu said:


> If a new one is coming, do you know if the current DI-V3 can be upgradable to the new one?


----------



## ccklone

Hey Now,
   
  Been having problems with my iMac and the DI. I have the latest driver installed using OS X 10.7.5. When the Di is hooked up via the 12v power supply I get drop outs every couple of minutes, then it mounts again, then drops out, then mounts again . . .  When I run the coax in from my CD transport using the 12v power supply, it works fine. When I switch to USB power on the DI and the signal is from my iMac via USB, it works fine. 
   
  Any assistance would be much appreciated. Thanks.
   
  --
  Finest kind,
  Chris


----------



## reiserFS

Why are you still on OS X 10.7.5? Update to at least 10.8.4
  Quote: 





ccklone said:


> Hey Now,
> 
> Been having problems with my iMac and the DI. I have the latest driver installed using OS X 10.7.5. When the Di is hooked up via the 12v power supply I get drop outs every couple of minutes, then it mounts again, then drops out, then mounts again . . .  When I run the coax in from my CD transport using the 12v power supply, it works fine. When I switch to USB power on the DI and the signal is from my iMac via USB, it works fine.
> 
> ...


----------



## ccklone

Quote: 





reiserfs said:


> Why are you still on OS X 10.7.5? Update to at least 10.8.4


 
   
  Hey Now,
   
  I haven't bought the upgrade because I have been busy buying headphones, DI and power supply,  and a TV 8^). Do you think upgrading to 10.8.4 will solve my 12v power supply issue?
   
  --
  Fines kind,
  Chris


----------



## fourwed

Quote: 





ccklone said:


> Hey Now,
> 
> Been having problems with my iMac and the DI. I have the latest driver installed using OS X 10.7.5. When the Di is hooked up via the 12v power supply I get drop outs every couple of minutes, then it mounts again, then drops out, then mounts again . . .  When I run the coax in from my CD transport using the 12v power supply, it works fine. When I switch to USB power on the DI and the signal is from my iMac via USB, it works fine.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Are you sure that you could use 12V in your DI? My DI-V2 only allows 5 to 10V.


----------



## jimmychan

Quote: 





jecklinstax said:


> I have exactly the same problem too! Firmware #10 is installed. SBT recognizes the DIV3 via usb output, but the dac gets no sound. Usb from pc works perfectly. Coax from SBT too. If someone finds a solution (KingWa?) I would be very happy to hear it.


 
   
  Now firmware #11 is working fine with the SBT. Go to upgrade your Di-V3.


----------



## rudra

Can someone please share the setting that they use to get the SPDIF output from USB32 in Windows 7 64bit using Foobar 2000


----------



## smiledon

At long last...[boy, have we waited.]       I confirm that firmware #11 works with SBT + EDO. Thank you Kingwa for persevering. This is especially good news, hard on the heels of the V3's demise.I was about to kiss it Goodbye!


----------



## Flamy88

Hi, I hope that I have read all posts, but I didn´t find answer for my problem. I have Compas 2 and I try to connect it with my notebook Acer Aspire S3-391 (Intel i7 Ivy bridge and USB 3.0 and Win8). I installed driver and I saw audio-GD in system in my pc, but every time, when I play some music, player (foobar2000, bsplayer, vlc) braked, music stop, or restart song or something, but didnt work properly  I tried it on my old pc, and there is everything OK. On my brothers notebook (Asus Zenbook Prime Ux31 and Intel i7 Ivy bridge and USB 3.0 and Win 7) I had the same problem as with my notebook  Can you somebody help me? Thank you very much


----------



## blitzxgene

Quote: 





flamy88 said:


> Hi, I hope that I have read all posts, but I didn´t find answer for my problem. I have Compas 2 and I try to connect it with my notebook Acer Aspire S3-391 (Intel i7 Ivy bridge and USB 3.0 and Win8). I installed driver and I saw audio-GD in system in my pc, but every time, when I play some music, player (foobar2000, bsplayer, vlc) braked, music stop, or restart song or something, but didnt work properly  I tried it on my old pc, and there is everything OK. On my brothers notebook (Asus Zenbook Prime Ux31 and Intel i7 Ivy bridge and USB 3.0 and Win 7) I had the same problem as with my notebook  Can you somebody help me? Thank you very much


 
   
  Are you on Firmware #11?


----------



## Flamy88

No, but now I instal 9-3 and it works. Thanks for your advice.


----------



## ktm777

Quote: 





smiledon said:


> At long last...[boy, have we waited.]       I confirm that firmware #11 works with SBT + EDO. Thank you Kingwa for persevering. This is especially good news, hard on the heels of the V3's demise.I was about to kiss it Goodbye!


 
  Me too )))


----------



## rudra

could someone with a DI-V3S confirm that they can play 24/176.4 KHz file from SBT. I can play all the formats except 24/176.4 KHz.  The same file play fine if I connect a NFB 17.32 DAC via USB to SBT. Thanks in advance.


----------



## elwappo99

Looks like the last 25 units of the DI V3 are for sale w/ Audio-gd. Version w/ Coaxial input  and usb only, no power supplies. Bummer to hear. I was I could upgrade my reference 3 with one of thises, but guess they're going to be gone soon. 
  
 Anyone hear if there will be a V4?


----------



## Clemmaster

elwappo99 said:


> Looks like the last 25 units of the DI V3 are for sale w/ Audio-gd. Version w/ Coaxial input  and usb only, no power supplies. Bummer to hear. I was I could upgrade my reference 3 with one of thises, but guess they're going to be gone soon.
> 
> Anyone hear if there will be a V4?


 
  
 It seems like the TE8802 is making a comeback? He's selling USB kits featuring that chip 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Did Tenor finally solve their driver issues? Or was it a hardware bug that required a new silicon revision?
  
 I'm not announcing anything, that's just an observation


----------



## tim3320070

elwappo99 said:


> Looks like the last 25 units of the DI V3 are for sale w/ Audio-gd. Version w/ Coaxial input  and usb only, no power supplies. Bummer to hear. I was I could upgrade my reference 3 with one of thises, but guess they're going to be gone soon.
> 
> Anyone hear if there will be a V4?


 
  
 I think he is moving towards internal USB and away from stand-alone units as the sound quality is the same or maybe better with internal. You could install an internal USB32 in your Ref-3 couldn't you (he sells these)?


----------



## elwappo99

tim3320070 said:


> elwappo99 said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like the last 25 units of the DI V3 are for sale w/ Audio-gd. Version w/ Coaxial input  and usb only, no power supplies. Bummer to hear. I was I could upgrade my reference 3 with one of thises, but guess they're going to be gone soon.
> ...


 
  
 I was actually thinking that. It seems like he just listed a bunch. Wonder if you could just buy a $40 and have a cheap little USB - Coax unit ?? I never saw the USB32 listed anywhere, so I assumed he was still working on this kit. I think I'll wait and see if he makes a V4 before making any moves.


----------



## tim3320070

I never speak for Kingwa but he must have a lot of 8022 chips to depart with. I use my 8022 DI-V2 DSP still and think things sound great as always (no computer issues since day 1).


----------



## smiledon

I xxx my SBT and fear its death. Today I received a Raspberry Pi single board computer, [mounted in a box] for $aud 47 posted. I have installed Raspyfi, a supposedly audiophile linux distro, and it works with the Audio-GD DI V3 firmware 11. There is an control app for my android tablet [that is sweet] so I am a happy chappy. Such cheap fun! No audiophile auditioning yet though...just gloating that such a cheap streamer is working. I am using a 32gig usb card, but NAS is also available. I will post soon re. the sound quality.
 Raspberry Pi > usb hub with usb card attached>Audio-Gd DI v3> Sanders 10c stereo system


----------



## fourwed

smiledon said:


> I xxx my SBT and fear its death. Today I received a Raspberry Pi single board computer, [mounted in a box] for $aud 47 posted. I have installed Raspyfi, a supposedly audiophile linux distro, and it works with the Audio-GD DI V3 firmware 11. There is an control app for my android tablet [that is sweet] so I am a happy chappy. Such cheap fun! No audiophile auditioning yet though...just gloating that such a cheap streamer is working. I am using a 32gig usb card, but NAS is also available. I will post soon re. the sound quality.
> Raspberry Pi > usb hub with usb card attached>Audio-Gd DI v3> Sanders 10c stereo system


 
  
 Welcome to the party. I am also using RaspyFi 1.0 too but on DI-V2. Please check if you have the occasional "Zap" sound like I am having. It might be better if your music is stored in a USB memory drive directly attached the RPi.


----------



## arie1234

I recently got me a DI-V3 too. It has firmware 11 installed and I use it with a device that runs squeezeplay icm with EDO (just like the Touch). Works a treat, except that I have dropout sounds when playing 24/192 material. 24/96 plays flawless. Can other Touch+EDO users confirm that their DI-V3 (or USB32 equipped audio gd dac) plays 192 material without issues?


----------



## scorpionro

I'm using a SA-2 ( internal USB32, FW #9-3 ) connected to my SBT and it playes 24/192 without problems ( I've used it via WiFi as well as via wired LAN ).


----------



## hifi25nl

I have a question:
 the audio-gd DI-V3 will pass the Dolby or DTS signal to an external audio-video receiver for decoding?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Yes


----------



## hawkhead

Well Windows 8.1 has broken VIA ASIO on the DI V3
  
 time to find a replacement convertor


----------



## rdsu

hawkhead said:


> Well Windows 8.1 has broken VIA ASIO on the DI V3
> 
> time to find a replacement convertor


 

 Sent an email to Kingwa for new a driver version... 
  
 audio-gd@126.com


----------



## hifi25nl

For Windows 8.1:
 did you try to reinstall the drivers in windows 7 compatibility mode?


----------



## hawkhead

I did not but I have now and it worked - so thank you very much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Quote:


hifi25nl said:


> For Windows 8.1:
> did you try to reinstall the drivers in windows 7 compatibility mode?


----------



## miragestv

Hello!
Could you please give me a link to firmware #9-3? I upgraded my 15.32 to fw2014 anf now want to make it as it was before, but I can't find this version anywhere. Please!!!


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Try this link: http://audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USB32/USB32EN_2.htm
  
 The firmware v11 also contains older firmwares http://www.audio-gd.com/USB32firmware.rar
  
 It should have all the files inside.


----------



## rdsu

Hi,

I know that 2014 drivers aren't for DI-V3, but did someone try them on it?

Thanks


----------



## seaice

Yes, I installed the 2014V1 and 2014V2 version to my DI-V3 and both OK


----------



## rdsu

seaice said:


> Yes, I installed the 2014V1 and 2014V2 version to my DI-V3 and both OK



And sounds better now?


----------



## seaice

I listen the DI-V3 at occasional times but the Master 7 with the new firmware sounds good. I can't provide a detailed comparison because I have also exchanged tubes in my headphone amp. The new firmware 2014V2 and drivers work flawlessly in my DI-V3 (WIN 8.1). Try it...


----------



## rdsu

Ok, thanks for your feedback...


----------



## rdsu

Kingwa told me that DI-V3 will also have a v2014 firmware very soon...


----------



## ALRAINBOW

So the one we used although it works is not the preeminent one 
Al


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

For those curious about installing the new 2014 firmware and driver on the DI-V3, I have installed them on the DI-V3. It works although playback is only available via WASAPI and not through ASIO for now. Kingwa mentioned in an email that the ASIO only works in 32bit output so not applicable to the DI-V3 which can only output 24bit for SPDIF.
  
 The sound is definitely an improvement over earlier firmwares and drivers with better separations, soundstage depth and a balanced improvement at both ends of the extensions. It's a really nice sonic improvement. 
  
 I did try using the earlier USB32 v2 driver which allowed me to use ASIO in 24bit mode. Although there is a slight improvement in the trebles, the bass seems to sound dry and lacking. Can't compare with the sonics with the actual 2014 drivers. 
  
 Would be really worthwhile to wait for the new firmware and drivers for the DI-V3.


----------



## seaice

I use Wasapi and Kernel Streaming (WIN 8.1+foobar) with the 2014V2 firmware. Both OK.


----------



## Pacha

I'm interested in having the 2014 version for the DI V3 as I'm not using foobar and don't find a good wasapi plugin for my player.
  
 I hope they are going to release their new driver "special DI V3" soon!


----------



## rdsu

Kingwa forgot to put the news about the DI-V3 2014 firmware, but we can download it from here:
  
 http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USB32/USB32EN_2.htm


----------



## rdsu

rdsu said:


> Kingwa forgot to put the news about the DI-V3 2014 firmware, but we can download it from here:
> 
> http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USB32/USB32EN_2.htm


 
  
 In the manual says that we must use firmware 2014 with driver 2014.
  
 I already sent and email to Kingwa asking about the driver 2014 for DI-V3...


----------



## rdsu

rdsu said:


> In the manual says that we must use firmware 2014 with driver 2014.
> 
> I already sent and email to Kingwa asking about the driver 2014 for DI-V3...


 
 DI-V3 can use the Driver 2014 (24bit only)...
  
 Firmware 2014
 http://www.audio-gd.com/USB32firmware.rar
  
 Driver 2014
 http://www.audio-gd.com/USB32%20driver%202014.rar


----------



## staalf

I have the Audio GD DI v1 and PSU v1.

 Yesterday i bought a DI v3 and with a bit of luck I receive it today.
  
 I have a question about the PSU however.
  
 On the website of Audio GD I read the following. For old PSU v1 : Addition one 10 ohm / 0.5W resistor
  
 I am not a electric engineer, but I hope I understand it. I think I have to replace the current one with another one. Right?
  


 I think it is the part I marked with arrows.
  
 Can someone explain to me why I have to replace it? The output stays the same, so I do not understand.
  
 Hope that someone with more knowledge can help me out.


----------



## FauDrei

By adding resistors in parallel to existing two blue resistors (shown as "additional green resistor" on the picture) you raise output current. Voltage stays the same.



"Mo' powa'."

More heat too.


NOTE:

 CONTACT AUDIO-GD FOR EXACT RESISTOR VALUES TO BE SOLDERED IN MARKED POSITION.
 TWO EXISTING BLUE RESISTORS SHOULD NOT BE REMOVED.
 BIG 0.5W BLACK RESISTOR (marked with red X on the picture) SHOULD NOT BE REMOVED OR CHANGED IN ANY WAY.


----------



## staalf

faudrei said:


> By adding resistors in parallel there (NOT REPLACING) you raise output current. Voltage stays the same.
> 
> "Mo' powa'."
> 
> More heat too.


 

 I can follow you thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Still one question. Did I pick the right part (see picture in my previous post) or is it the blue one left of it. I am in doubt....


----------



## FauDrei

Yes, you were right...

I checked back my notes and correspondence with KingWa and fixed accordingly my previous post: Resistor(s) should be added to two existing blue ones... big black one should not be touched.


----------



## staalf

faudrei said:


> Yes, you were right...
> 
> I checked back my notes and correspondence with KingWa and fixed accordingly my previous post: Resistor(s) should be added to two existing blue ones... big black one should not be touched.


 

 Thank you so much. This helped a lot.


----------



## preproman




----------



## tim3320070

http://audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/DI2014/DI2014EN.htm
  
 New DI coming


----------



## preproman

Looking on the site - it does not look like I can add an AES output.  I wonder if it's possible to have: 1 - AES output, 1 - BNC output and 1 USB input?  Does Kingwa respond to this thread?


----------



## BombayTheIndian

Audio-GD's new DI-2014 details are up, they'll be shipping out early August! It looks like the biggest changes here are:
  
 1. DSD output via I2s (but not SPDIF)
 2. The PSU has been placed on-board and only comes with this option
 3. The PSU around various components have been built up even further (primarily around the USB chip)
 4. Shorter signal transfer lengths
 5. No power transfer via USB cable, signal transfer only
  
 http://audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/DI2014/DI2014EN.htm
  

  
  
 I like what I see!


----------



## Denys

Hi guys,

I sent the question to Kingwa, but he's not available right now......So in case anyone would know....
I have the REF5 I bought in 2012 I believe... I am using the DI 1 bought at the same time....

Would the DI 2014 improve the sound of the REF5 (the maximum the REF5 is 24/96).

Just wondering

Thanks

Denys


----------



## mowglycdb

Kingwa would know, since no one has tested it yet.
  
 In blind tests between FLAC 16/44.1 and 24/96 you will hardly find any differences, so higher than 24/96 is overkill and will not be noticed at all. The differences have to do with jitter more than anything else.


----------



## Denys

So I believe my question should be.... Will I hear an significant improvement between the DI 1 and the DI 2014 to justify the purchase of the DI 2014.
I know the REF will not read DSD file.....but I am not too concerned about that... I'll wait for Kingwa's answer then...

Denys


----------



## ciphercomplete

I emailed Kingwa about this maybe 2 weeks ago.  He said he "expects" the new DI to outperform all built in USB 32 (when used with I2S output) and all previous DIs.
  
 Personally I'd be surprised to hear a difference bigger than one you might hear after a firmware/driver upgrade.


----------



## catcherfly

I have the NFB-10ES2 and I am wondering if someone could explain the sonic benefits of a digital interface like the DI-2014.
I primily listen through USB from my MAC (lossless files with DAC settings at 24/176). On occasion I will also play through an Apple Airport Express (I use an older model because there is too much jitter for the 10ES2 with the new model Airport Express). Would DI-2014 help with the optical input jitter?


----------



## mowglycdb

Quote:
  
*"What's benefit of the coaxial / Optical inputs:*
                    The coaxial / optical inputs can improve on SQ from some low/mid rang coaxial output source. Like some DVD player, PC sound card, low/mid rang CDP like the Marantz CD67, ect. If the coaxial output source already  Hi-end quality, don't expect the DI-2014 can improve on SQ."


----------



## Denys

I ordered one last night....with the upgraded clock. I will pair it via coaxial with my REF-5 that I bought a cuple of years ago and give my Digital Interface to my daughter....It will be perfect for her...

I trust Kingwa when he mentions that PSU are usually one of the biggest challenge in audio.....

Anyway, I'll keep you informed....if anyone cares of course 

Denys


----------



## mowglycdb

Sure do , try the optical inputs if you have a PS3 for example and see if it's an improvement!  :3


----------



## d4nim4l

Anyone have one yet?  Or one on the way?


----------



## lieberung

denys said:


> I ordered one last night....with the upgraded clock. I will pair it via coaxial with my REF-5 that I bought a cuple of years ago and give my Digital Interface to my daughter....It will be perfect for her...
> 
> I trust Kingwa when he mentions that PSU are usually one of the biggest challenge in audio.....
> 
> ...


Denys, have you recieved yours yet and if so whats your impressions so far?


----------



## Denys

Hi.
  
 No, to this date.... I did not receive anything.....and according to the shipment page......it's not sent yet...... I purchased it on July 31,,
  
 I'll wait another week....
  
 Denys


----------



## mowglycdb

Send a mail, he will answer asap


----------



## Denys

It's my 5th purchase with Audio-GD....so I am not really worried.... I am more concerned by the fact that the DI-2014 does not appear on the website anymore....
  
 Denys


----------



## mowglycdb

denys said:


> It's my 5th purchase with Audio-GD....so I am not really worried.... I am more concerned by the fact that the DI-2014 does not appear on the website anymore....
> 
> Denys


 
  
 I was also wondering about it not appearing. I'm actually thinking of getting one if you give good impressions about it. I wonder if kingwa is still selling it.
  
 They haven't recieved the chassis from their vendor so they'll put up the page and send me a mail when they can sell it again, or ship it for people that already purchased it.


----------



## tim3320070

It's up now


----------



## Denys

Got an email by Kingwa......should be sent to me this weekend.... can't wait !!!! 

Funny.....all the stuff I bought from Audio-GD took for ever to be sent......but I never....never regretted it......

I have great expectations regarding this DI-2014..... it will be paired with my REF5 via coaxial....

WooAudio 6SE and Senn HD800....

This should be my gear for a long time now...

Really can't wait...

Denys


----------



## Tom W

denys said:


> I have great expectations regarding this DI-2014..... it will be paired with my REF5 via coaxial....
> 
> WooAudio 6SE and Senn HD800....
> 
> ...


 
  
 Does your REF5 have a RCA or BNC coax connector?
  
 The reason I ask is I've found the Audio GD DAC19-DSP with the RCA connector to be fussy regarding S/PDIF sources and am thinking the REF5 might be similar.
  
 I've settled on the EA OR5 w/ Hynes regulator, EA Short Block, Veloce Black Cat coax, and a BNC attenuator.
  
 EA OR5 was originally purchased to help pick out a DAC replacement for the DAC19-DSP but when it was added to my system I stopped looking.
  
 BTW before the OR5 I had the original DI that I used as a re-clocker and a few $1500 DACs that I had demo'd.
  
 The OR5/DAC19-DSP combo provides me with ALMOST everything I was looking for in a system but most importantly doesn't have any of the things I didn't want. (even the Senn HD-650's can reveal minor source weaknesses over time)


----------



## Denys

tom w said:


> Does your REF5 have a RCA or BNC coax connector?
> 
> The reason I ask is I've found the Audio GD DAC19-DSP with the RCA connector to be fussy regarding S/PDIF sources and am thinking the REF5 might be similar.
> 
> ...




No, the REF5 does not have the BNC connector, but the coax/optical one.... I am also using the DI 1st generation now, which I'll have to get rid of....probably giving it to my daughter....

Denys


----------



## .Sup

catcherfly said:


> I have the NFB-10ES2 and I am wondering if someone could explain the sonic benefits of a digital interface like the DI-2014.
> I primily listen through USB from my MAC (lossless files with DAC settings at 24/176). On occasion I will also play through an Apple Airport Express (I use an older model because there is too much jitter for the 10ES2 with the new model Airport Express). Would DI-2014 help with the optical input jitter?


How do you know there is more jitter with the newer Airport Express'?


----------



## rdsu

Latest DI-V3 firmware and driver:
  
http://www.audio-gd.com/Audio-gdUSB32FWversion1.rar
http://www.audio-gd.com/Audio-gdUSB32driverversion1.rar


----------



## mowglycdb

That driver works with the DI-2014, I'm recieving it tomorrow lets see how it goes


----------



## conquerator2




----------



## Denys

mowglycdb said:


> That driver works with the DI-2014, I'm recieving it tomorrow lets see how it goes



 


Yep....mine is in Cincinnati as I write this note.... If it's not stop at the border, I should receive it tomorrow....

Can't wait !!!!

Denys


----------



## mowglycdb

I left 100USD at home to pay expenses to DHL, they didn't have change about (3 dollars) so I'm not getting it today  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 lolol


----------



## conquerator2

Why didn't you let them keep the change if it was 3 bucks?


----------



## mowglycdb

Because I didn't anticipate that something like this was going to happen, I wasn't at home .


----------



## conquerator2

Ooooh, yeah, sorry 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sucks though.


----------



## Denys

mowglycdb said:


> Because I didn't anticipate that something like this was going to happen, I wasn't at home .




Paid DHL online..($36 duties)...so I should receive mine later on today !!

Denys


----------



## christmclean

Hoping somebody can give me some guidance.
  
 I have a Sonos hooked up to a North Star Design DAC 192 MK1. I just learned from some research that the Sonos has considerable jitter at the output that can be cleaned up by a reclocker. I have been looking at the syncro-mesh and the Wyred4sound remedy reclocker and finally found the new audio-gd DI. 
  
 I am hoping to use the I2S output from the Audio-gd DI to feed my NSD DAC 192 input. I am a little lite on the pin-outs on the two system matching so hoping for some guidance.
  
 Here is the pinout for the audio-gd from the website.
*I2S output define:*
       3.3V level ,  we can't guarantee the I2S output can cooperate with all I2S input devices.
       The I2S transmit want to take care the transmit cable .  
 Pin 1 : SDATA
 Pin 3 : LRCK
 Pin 5 : SCLK
 Pin 7 : MCLK
 Pin 2,4,6,8 GND
  
 Here is the pinout from another post on head-fi
 The pinout is as follows:

*I2S*
 I2s Data
 Serial Bit Clock
 Left/Right Word Clock
 Master Clock

*CAT5*
 Brown / Brown-White
 Green / Green-White
 Blue / Blue-White
 Orange / Orange-White

*RJ45*
 8 - Serial Bit Clock (64fs)
 7 - Serial Bit Clock Ground
 6 - I2S Data
 5 - I2S Data Ground
 4 - Left/Right Word Clock (fs)
 3 - Left/Right Word Clock Ground
 2 - Master Clock (256fs)
 1 - Master Clock Ground
  
 I also read the the NSD 192 only works with 24/192 signal that I am not sure is configurable on the audio-gd DI so I might be out of luck but was hoping someone might chime in.
  
 Thanks,
  
 Chris


----------



## Currawong

The DI wont up-sample (only the old Reference 3 did that) so if you require 192k input, you'll have to have your music player on your computer do the up-sampling, or the Sonos, if it has such a feature.


----------



## Denys

Received it.... took me a while to make it work......and was too late to listen to music....but the unit seems to work fine....

I'll come back later on to give my impressions...... Improvement from DI first generation is that I may now read 24/192 files....

Can't talk now about the sound....but I trust Kingwa when he says that PSU is the biggest challenge in Audio....So this unit should make a change....

Denys


----------



## christmclean

Thanks for the info on the DI 3 doing up sampling but no the new DI. Looks like even if I made the pinouts match that I could not get the sonos to do the 24/192 that would be needed for the I2s input. It looks like a very nice unit and I look forward to seeing the reviews on it. I could still use it with the spdif or toslink.


----------



## tim3320070

christmclean said:


> Thanks for the info on the DI 3 doing up sampling but no the new DI. Looks like even if I made the pinouts match that I could not get the sonos to do the 24/192 that would be needed for the I2s input. It looks like a very nice unit and I look forward to seeing the reviews on it. I could still use it with the spdif or toslink.


 
 You really need to send Kingwa this question


----------



## christmclean

Thank you good idea. I asked Kingwa about the I2S working with the North star DAC but he said he said he did not know. But I sent a request asking if the unit will upsample to 24/192 on the I2S output.


----------



## mowglycdb

It's definitely an upgrade over the stock USB32,  more clarity, naturality and details on the mid and highs  but I feel something strange with the bass, it doesn't go that low or hit that hard, it has loss presence (it's tighter though and has more SQ to it), I think it may have to do with the DI-2014 not being burned in at all or the i2s cable. When I asked for my unit they shipped it in two days.


----------



## Denys

I bought mine on July 31st....was sent on August 22nd and arrived in Montreal 4 days later....

The unit becomes very very hot (which surprised me).... I'll ask Kingwa if I may leave it on the REF5 without problems.....

Not burned yet, but I know there's an improvement over the original DI I own....

More to come

Denys


----------



## christmclean

Got an update from Kingwa. They are willing to remap the I2S output to match the I2S input on my North Star Design 192 DAC. That is some true customer service that you do not see from many companies. I thought I would have to build a custom cable to do the remapping.
  
 Kingwa also stated that the unit does not do up sampling but does pass the signal up to 394. So I would have to do the up sampling in the media player, which Sonos does not do. The NSD 192 DAC needs a 24/192 input to enable the I2S input so I am out of luck here using a Sonos as an input.
  
 So I thought I had a solution to use the I2S input on my DAC but looks like the up sampling has changed that.  I guess I could just use the spdif input but was really hoping for an I2S solution.


----------



## hostrup

Hi 

christmclean
  
 I have owned the North start dac 192 - a couple of year ago - i was using it with the Teralink X2. 
 I just used a short rj45 cable - and plugged it in to the DAC 192 - it worked flawless. 
 It did not require the signal to be 192 - the only difference between the i2s input and the other inputs was that the i2s input would not be upsampled. 
 So when i got the sound from i2s i would be eg. 44.1 and the upsample button did not work. 
  
 So unless northstar has changed this (my was a revision 1) it should work with the audio-gd. 
  
 I am acutally considering buying a North start dac 192 again and the DI 2014 - and them make kingwa reconfigure the i2s output - 
  
 I will post if i managed to get everything in line  
  
 br 
 Ronni


----------



## bballas

Last weekend i modded my usb 32 (master 7).
 -install one pcs lt1129cst for firmware chip,one more tcxo,connect this unused 5v usb ,my computer inside install linear board and r core transformer these things
  -find I/0 or pll, powered via unused rj45 socket with audio gd psu a 3.3v-linear lt 1084-r core transformer.
 -Also use original master 7 3.3v power for these rest component.
 -Find the  best usb signal directly in the pci e,or mini pci  motherboard socket,without any chip,or card-extremly short signal path.(motherboard have separate 3.3v linear rail)so i no need other pci e usb3 card  reclock,or filter.
 The sound??


----------



## christmclean

I decided to stick with coax inputs and outputs on my North Star Dac 192. I found a nice Empirical Audio Synchro-mesh and went with it. It was really tempting to try the new Audio-GD DI 2014 and it would have worked with the I2S input. It does put out 3.3V and not 5V like the North Star would like so it was not ideal. Hopefully someone else will try out the new DI 2014 and report back.


----------



## mowglycdb

After having the DI-2014 during about 2 weeks, I can say that the bass has got much better than at the begining. The slam must be about what it was before but the sub-bass is stronger and more defined. It's an upgrade in all aspects. My drive must be in about 100 + 70 hours burn in.


----------



## gevorg

bballas said:


> Last weekend i modded my usb 32 (master 7).
> -install one pcs lt1129cst for firmware chip,one more tcxo,connect this unused 5v usb ,my computer inside install linear board and r core transformer these things
> -find I/0 or pll, powered via unused rj45 socket with audio gd psu a 3.3v-linear lt 1084-r core transformer.
> -Also use original master 7 3.3v power for these rest component.
> ...




Very interesting! Can you please post more details/pics/links? In particular, the part about best USB signal directly from PCIe.


----------



## xxxfbsxxx

mowglycdb said:


> After having the DI-2014 during about 2 weeks, I can say that the bass has got much better than at the begining. The slam must be about what it was before but the sub-bass is stronger and more defined. It's an upgrade in all aspects. My drive must be in about 100 + 70 hours burn in.



Sound great,could you plz let us know what dac you are pairing with the di? And did you try all output?


----------



## mowglycdb

xxxfbsxxx said:


> Sound great,could you plz let us know what dac you are pairing with the di? And did you try all output?


 
  
  
 I've only tried one output,  and two inputs,  USB from my PC and optical from my PS3. I'm conecting it the Master-7 i2s.


----------



## xxxfbsxxx

mowglycdb said:


> I've only tried one output,  and two inputs,  USB from my PC and optical from my PS3. I'm conecting it the Master-7


 
 so are you using the i2s cable from audio-gd? have you tried another i2s cable?
 i also looking for shipping the same combo di2014+m7


----------



## mowglycdb

Yes I'm using the 30cm cable from audio-gd, I'm looking into getting another i2s cable about 4" long.


----------



## mowglycdb

So,  listening to music again yesterday, I noticed the bass slam is gone yet again. I think it's all over the place like Dacladder said, maybe it's the i2s. I wouldn't know for sure.


----------



## ciphercomplete

I really wonder why I2s when implemented using the rj45 standard/connections has problems with stability. Might be a good question to ask Steve at Empirical audio. 

I wish Kingwa would just use the ps audio/HDMI standard.


----------



## xxxfbsxxx

mowglycdb said:


> So,  listening to music again yesterday, I noticed the bass slam is gone yet again. I think it's all over the place like Dacladder said, maybe it's the i2s. I wouldn't know for sure.


 
 i found audioquest, chord offer some cat7 cable, so in case you want to upgrade/change i think its worth having a look


----------



## mowglycdb

ciphercomplete said:


> I really wonder why I2s when implemented using the rj45 standard/connections has problems with stability. Might be a good question to ask Steve at Empirical audio.
> 
> I wish Kingwa would just use the ps audio/HDMI standard.


 
  
 I wonder if it's posible to mod the DI-2014 and Master-7 for this.
  
 Has anyone tried the coax/BNC(ACSS)?


----------



## mowglycdb

Update:
  
 I've been continuing to use the DI-2014 and I noticed that when using the USB input,  there's not much difference between using the i2s output or the coaxial output in the bass department which is what I have problems with, I didn't use a good coaxial cable though.
  
 I did notice a major difference when using the coaxial input of the DI-2014, bass was much fuller/maybe less detail, I'm using the coaxial ouput of the DX-50. So in this transport I'm assuming the usb input  and all what's associated with it does something to the bass.


----------



## xxxfbsxxx

mowglycdb said:


> Update:
> 
> I've been continuing to use the DI-2014 and I noticed that when using the USB input,  there's not much difference between using the i2s output or the coaxial output in the bass department which is what I have problems with, I didn't use a good coaxial cable though.
> 
> I did notice a major difference when using the coaxial input of the DI-2014, bass was much fuller/maybe less detail, I'm using the coaxial ouput of the DX-50. So in this transport I'm assuming the usb input  and all what's associated with it does something to the bass.



Can you try to reinstall the new Aug firmware and new driver to see if it helps?
Purin and dacladder have tested new firm+driver with built in usb32 and reported pretty impressive result @___@


----------



## hostrup

*Hi all!*
  
 Just wanted to let you know that i recieved my audio-gd di 2014 today. 
 I made King-wa change the pinout of the I2S - so that it matched that of my Northstar Design Dac 192.
 So i was very exited to open it -and finaly to test it with my dac. 
  
 At the moment (just for another day or so) i am using windows 8.1 with XBMC as frontend. 
 Booted my windows machine - startet the Audio-gd, then i connected the USB cable, and finally i installed the driver. 
  
 After a reboot - it was time to test, and voila! swiching to channel 4 on the Northstar, and i recieves a fine lock. 
 The upsample option is off-course missing - because i now run a direct connection and not SPDIF. 

 It cant tell anything about the sound yet. I guess i have to wait for the unit to settle in before making any suggestions about the sound. 
  
 But right its playing background music - and it sounds nice. 
  
  
 So thumps up to king-wa for making the audio-gd talk with the northstar - thats simply great  
  
 have a nice day 
  
 Best regards 
 Ronni


----------



## mowglycdb

xxxfbsxxx said:


> Can you try to reinstall the new Aug firmware and new driver to see if it helps?
> Purin and dacladder have tested new firm+driver with built in usb32 and reported pretty impressive result @___@


 
  
 I had the firmware, but they driver that came in a mail wasn't the correct one and walla, the bass is strong again lol


----------



## xxxfbsxxx

mowglycdb said:


> I had the firmware, but they driver that came in a mail wasn't the correct one and walla, the bass is strong again lol


 
 glad that you have sorted it out, just received my di today
 used it with audioquest cat7 cable with outstanding result, very satisfied bass level on hd800 (which i always find disappointed as im basshead )


----------



## ciphercomplete

xxxfbsxxx said:


> glad that you have sorted it out, just received my di today
> used it with audioquest cat7 cable with outstanding result, very satisfied bass level on hd800 (which i always find disappointed as im basshead )


 
  
 How much of a difference is there between the Master 7 internal USB32 and the DI 2014?  Did you compare the two using the newest internal USB32 firmware and driver?


----------



## xxxfbsxxx

ciphercomplete said:


> How much of a difference is there between the Master 7 internal USB32 and the DI 2014?  Did you compare the two using the newest internal USB32 firmware and driver?


 
 actually not, just received them today so plan to let them breakin first
 another thing is i bought 2 DI2014 and one of them is dead on arrival, now have to deal with warranty process


----------



## ciphercomplete

xxxfbsxxx said:


> actually not, just received them today so plan to let them breakin first
> another thing is i bought 2 DI2014 and one of them is dead on arrival, now have to deal with warranty process


 
 Sorry about that and I feel your pain.  The power button on my Master 3 amp jammed last week and I am unable to power it off now.  Its out of warranty so I would have to cover shipping to China which would have been $800+ and $200 back to the US. LOL.  Needless to say I just ordered 2 new power switches from Kingwa and will have a local guy fix it.  Repairs are the only bad thing about dealing with Audio GD which IMO is greatly outweighed by the quality of product you get.   
  
 Did they ship your DI2014 via TNT shipping?  How fast are they?  My power switches were shipped via TNT.


----------



## xxxfbsxxx

ciphercomplete said:


> Sorry about that and I feel your pain.  The power button on my Master 3 amp jammed last week and I am unable to power it off now.  Its out of warranty now so I would have to cover shipping to China which would have been $800+ and $200 back to the US. LOL.  Needless to say I just order 2 new power switches from Kingwa and will have a local guy fix it.  Repairs are the only bad thing about dealing with Audio GD which IMO is greatly outweighed by the quality of product you get.


 
 yeah, actually i have purchased many from agd for 2 years without any trouble, this is my first time that a product is died out of the box, maybe because of the numbers of di2014 orders so they dont have enough time to test it 
 anw, hope agd could solve it soon, also sorry for your power switch T__T
  
 they shipped my package via DHL, and it took 2 weeks since DHL incorrectly delivered to another destination 
  
 btw, back to di2014, quick test with my dac1 results in much better outcome compared to my old converter which is concero


----------



## Nuttinbutair

No comments on sound of the DI-V3 with the new firmware yet?  
  
 My 2 cents, a clear improvement.  I don't have another good converter to compare it to, but it sounds better than it ever had.
  
 My DI-V3 is driving an Uber Bifrost (no USB card).  I have tried both the 'USB32_FW_version1_forDI.bin' and 'USB32_FW_version2_forDI.bin'.  No Windows driver though; using a Mac instead.  Both firmware versions sound the same to me.  The more that I listen to it the more that I think that the new driver has produced an increase in the detail across the frequency range.  After time the difference does not seem as subtle as it first did.  On recordings that are not too good, I don't notice much.  On the better recordings there is more precision in the location of the instruments and voices, as well as the clarity of the music.  I don't sense the degree of grain that I had earlier, which was making me think about trying something new.  I can be happy with the setup for a while.  
  
 The new firmware is more analog sounding, no question in my rig.  
  
 Anyone know what the difference between firmware versions are for the DI?


----------



## xxxfbsxxx

just have a quick test with schiit wyrd and di2014 on m7+m9
 without wyrd i feel like the sound is mellower, a bit warmer, bass loosen a bit and more analog feeling
 with wyrd, every thing is a bit clearer, drier more elegant and treble extension is a bit more sparkle
  
 does any one happen to have another dac with wyrd+di combo, please share some impression


----------



## ghiglie

Hello there. I've been lurkin a while (well... a bit more than a while ).
 I'd like to upgrade the firmware of my DI-V3, but I can't download it. Can someone mirror it? 
  
 TIA!


----------



## Nuttinbutair

ghiglie said:


> Hello there. I've been lurkin a while (well... a bit more than a while ).
> I'd like to upgrade the firmware of my DI-V3, but I can't download it. Can someone mirror it?
> 
> TIA!


 

 Same thing happened when I tried.  Just so happens theres a thread for that:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/638252/audio-gd-usb-32-firmware-drivers-and-feedback-thread/360#post_10902051
  
 Happy flashing!


----------



## ghiglie

nuttinbutair said:


> Same thing happened when I tried.  Just so happens theres a thread for that:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/638252/audio-gd-usb-32-firmware-drivers-and-feedback-thread/360#post_10902051
> 
> Happy flashing!


 
  
 Oh, thanks! The link on page is wrong, that's why.
 I was wondering to upgrade to the 2014 version, even if I'm using a DAC with integrated XMOS interface, but with this I'll keep it: with a battery "it runs like a train", we say.


----------



## mowglycdb

Mimicking ciphercomplete's post: http://www.head-fi.org/t/625793/audio-gd-master-7-discrete-fully-balanced-dac-pcm1704/2160#post_10941497
  
  
  
 Official Audio GD HDMI I2S mod!  http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/diy/I2Skits/I2SEN.htm


----------



## xxxfbsxxx

just got my replacement di with hdmi and hdmi kit for m7, really good result
 the most noticing that hdmi seem to fix sib issues which was reported by few di users 
 overall better imagine sense than built in usb32 and more natural feeling, no more harsh sounding in the highs 
 all agd users who wish to buy the di should definitely change to hdmi interface


----------



## ciphercomplete

xxxfbsxxx said:


> just got my replacement di with hdmi and hdmi kit for m7, really good result
> the most noticing that hdmi seem to fix sib issues which was reported by few di users
> overall better imagine sense than built in usb32 and more natural feeling, no more harsh sounding in the highs
> all agd users who wish to buy the di should definitely change to hdmi interface




Great news. Ill eventually try the new DI out, the price is great.


----------



## conquerator2

Any more impressions?
I currently use the NFB7 via USB and wonder whether it'd sound better and which input would sound best 
Thanks!


----------



## Clemmaster

conquerator2 said:


> Any more impressions?
> I currently use the NFB7 via USB and wonder whether it'd sound better and which input would sound best
> 
> 
> ...


 
 What NFB-7 do you have? .2? .32?


----------



## conquerator2

clemmaster said:


> What NFB-7 do you have? .2? .32?



NFB7 (2014)


----------



## Clemmaster

conquerator2 said:


> NFB7 (2014)


 
  
 USB should be good enough. You could cut the +5V on your cable, too.


----------



## conquerator2

clemmaster said:


> USB should be good enough. You could cut the +5V on your cable, too.



True.
Though the DI-V2014 couldalso come in handy in the future 
I am not sure how to go about cutting it anyway...
Regardless, there is some ground loop noise I am dealing with as well... It is not a problem with the Hifiman but it is audible with more sensitive headphones ;/
Using a different power socket circuit (away from PC) fixes it but that is not a viable or permanent solution...
Shame those USB purifiers are not fast enough/full USB 2.0 compliant... Was thinking about the Wyrd or such...
Well, that's OT.


----------



## xxxfbsxxx

conquerator2 said:


> True.
> Though the DI-V2014 couldalso come in handy in the future
> 
> 
> ...


 
 you dont need to cut it, just use a paper sticky tape and tape 5v leg


----------



## kwingylee

Denys:
 Any update on your listening impressions? I ordered my DI last week and should get it hopefully before Thanksgiving. AGD sent it on Friday.


----------



## kwingylee

Just got my DI2014. Have been buring it in for a couple of days. I am using BNC cables. Does anyone know that if it supports 50 ohm or 75 ohm BNC cables?
Just checked the DI web page - Its 75 ohm for both input and output. Guess RG-59 cables will do it.


----------



## JecklinStax

Lurking, looking for any positive comments on the DI 2014. Is someone out there really happy with it?
 I once had a Audio GD Ref 7. The DI V3 improved it a lot.
 Now I wonder if the performance of my NAD M51, fed by a good old Squeezebox Touch, would gain anything by putting a DI 2014 between them.


----------



## conquerator2

jecklinstax said:


> Lurking, looking for any positive comments on the DI 2014. Is someone out there really happy with it?
> I once had a Audio GD Ref 7. The DI V3 improved it a lot.
> Now I wonder if the performance of my NAD M51, fed by a good old Squeezebox Touch, would gain anything by putting a DI 2014 between them.


 
 +1, but with the NFB7


----------



## xxxfbsxxx

jecklinstax said:


> Lurking, looking for any positive comments on the DI 2014. Is someone out there really happy with it?
> I once had a Audio GD Ref 7. The DI V3 improved it a lot.
> Now I wonder if the performance of my NAD M51, fed by a good old Squeezebox Touch, would gain anything by putting a DI 2014 between them.


 
 i tried di2014 with my friend nad51 and i would say it does great job elevating the nad in to whole new level , at least 2 times better compare to nad built in usb


----------



## JecklinStax

Now we're talking! Did you try coax too?


----------



## xxxfbsxxx

jecklinstax said:


> Now we're talking! Did you try coax too?


 
 nad51 "has to use coax connection" since the hdmi interface on nad is completely different thing compared to hdmi on di2014
 the hdmi on di2014 is IIs (i2s) signal so the hdmi acts as interface only and they use completely difference internal configuration
  
 to give you some more reference, compare to my master7 using built in usb, the nad51 is in 1 or 2 lower bracket
 but with di2014-->m7 compared with di2014-->nad51 the gap is much much closer, now nad51 occupies same bracket, i would say tonal wise very similar, m7 only has slightly advantage over layering and a bit more micro detail that does not present in every tracks, only very few careful records could show the difference in micro details.
 the most important factor is di2014 help reducing digital feeling with nad and makes it sound more analog, more natural and smoother


----------



## JecklinStax

Thanks xxxfbsxxx,

 You have convinced me that the DI 2014 could provide a much better usb sound from the pc than the M51. I already knew the M51 usb input isn't very good. Dull and not very transparant.
   
 I mostly listen to music with a Logitech Squeezebox Touch connected to the M51 with a coax cable (Belden). This works absolutely fine. HDMI from my Blu ray / SACD player to HDMI M51 is excellent too.

 I just wondered if the DI 2014 could improve the interface between the Touch and M51 (Touch coax --> DI 2014 --> M51 coax,
 or: Touch usb --> DI 2014 --> M51 coax)

 Anyone?


----------



## kwingylee

I recently started using my di2014 in the USB mode. Taking input from my PC. For several days I ecperienced bad echo, chopping and motorboarding noise from only the USB in, spdif works perfect. I finally solved it by reloading my audio-gd driver and updated my pcan USB driver. Just wondering if others had experienced similar issues,.


----------



## idunnosoSTFU

I'm using the NFB-15 and my computer experiences BSOD occasionally. Anyone know how to fix this?


----------



## kwingylee

BSOD!? I am not if its the same as my issue.
 Anyway, I believe I have correlated my problem with occasional use of youtube to play video on my HTPC. After the youtube session, I get the echo/chopping problems as I had described earlier. I am hoping going to JRIVER 20 will fix this permanently.


----------



## conquerator2

idunnosostfu said:


> I'm using the NFB-15 and my computer experiences BSOD occasionally. Anyone know how to fix this?




A complete Windows reinstall and format might help. It did for me


----------



## mowglycdb

idunnosostfu said:


> I'm using the NFB-15 and my computer experiences BSOD occasionally. Anyone know how to fix this?


 
  
 Pay attention in which situations you're getting those problems, I had the same problem but using youtube and some chat clients on browsers.
  
 I think there's an inconsistency in the quality of the USB32 (or incompability with some motherboards) and sometimes crash, I don't think it's a driver only problem. My Master-7 USB input had this problem, though I didn't on the DI-2014. I formated, flashed different versions of the firmware, and even got a different mobo and CPU, it didn't solve my problem.


----------



## conquerator2

So, has anyone compared the DI-V2014 against the USB32 chip of their DACs?
 I wonder whether there will be an appreciable difference, to the NFB7's USB input vs USB-DIV2014-I2S for example :}
 Cheers


----------



## frizzup

conquerator2 said:


> So, has anyone compared the DI-V2014 against the USB32 chip of their DACs?
> I wonder whether there will be an appreciable difference, to the NFB7's USB input vs USB-DIV2014-I2S for example :}
> Cheers


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/625793/audio-gd-master-7-discrete-fully-balanced-dac-pcm1704/2325
  
 Post 2333
  
 frizzup


----------



## haitch

Thank you for the excellent review. I have been thinking about purchasing the DI-2014 for some time now to go with my M7 but keep having second thoughts about more expensive options like the Berkeley. So it got me wondering: does it make any sense / is there any experience with using multiple jitter reducers in the same chain? For example, by feeding the output of one DI-2014 into a second one before getting to the M7, does the sound quality improve over having a single unit?


----------



## Joong

Hi guys, I am new here and tried to read the entire thread, and gave up for toooo long to read.
 Is it improving the sound quality of ordinary CD which is connected to DI-2014 through optical or coaxial output?


----------



## motberg

joong said:


> Hi guys, I am new here and tried to read the entire thread, and gave up for toooo long to read.
> Is it improving the sound quality of ordinary CD which is connected to DI-2014 through optical or coaxial output?


 
  
 If your CD player has optical or coax digital output, then you can output SPDIF from the CD player (transport) to the DI-2014 --> but then need to output SPDIF to another DAC from the DI-2014.
 So you need a new DAC as well as the DI-2014 and if the new DAC is better than the DAC in your CD, then there should be an improvement.
 (... but actually, you could just go direct from the CD player to a suitable DAC without the DI-2014...)
  
 The nice thing about the DI-2014 is that you can also hook up a computer via a USB port to the DI-2014, which can output to the same DAC.
 So you can choose (switch) between your computer as a source - or your old CD player (transport) as a source.
  
 (...I am selling 2 pretty nice CD players now because my computer/DAC sounds better and is much more convenient to use...)
  
 So, I think your first step to improving sound is to check if some DAC in your budget would offer better sound than your current CD player.. then make sure it connects OK to your CD player digital outputs, then try that.. then after you find the DAC you like, think about computer audio with a DI-2014 or similar..
  
 welcome and have fun !


----------



## Joong

Thank you for explanation.
Technically DI 2014 can reduce the jitter of the Spdif or Coax output of the CD?


----------



## jimmychan

Yes, for low to mid end CD players


----------



## soulorc

Any idea how to modify RJ45 output into HDMI output on DI-2014?  I received my DI-2014 today only to find it's RJ45 version. I ordered it along with Master 7 HDMI. Maybe it is because I didn't say it clearly in the order.


----------



## conquerator2

soulorc said:


> Any idea how to modify RJ45 output into HDMI output on DI-2014?  I received my DI-2014 today only to find it's RJ45 version. I ordered it along with Master 7 HDMI. Maybe it is because I didn't say it clearly in the order.


 
 The HDMI version would be specified in the order summary [something like DI-V2014 [TCXO, HDMI]]. As for the modification, no idea. It is easy to modify a DAC of theirs [there's a detailed guide on their website - http://audio-gd.com/Pro/diy/I2Skits/I2SEN.htm]
 You should ask Audio-gd if the same applies for the DI.
 Good luck!


----------



## soulorc

conquerator2 said:


> The HDMI version would be specified in the order summary [something like DI-V2014 [TCXO, HDMI]]. As for the modification, no idea. It is easy to modify a DAC of theirs [there's a detailed guide on their website - http://audio-gd.com/Pro/diy/I2Skits/I2SEN.htm]
> You should ask Audio-gd if the same applies for the DI.
> Good luck!


 
 Thank you! Would HDMI be an improvement over RJ45? If not, maybe I can just stay with RJ45. 
  
 I just found the modification for DI on the website you gave me. It looks pretty easy. I will try to contact them.  Another 40 bucks to spend.


----------



## conquerator2

soulorc said:


> Thank you! Would HDMI be an improvement over RJ45? If not, maybe I can just stay with RJ45.
> 
> I just found the modification for DI on the website you gave me. It looks pretty easy. I will try to contact them.  Another 40 bucks to spend.


 
 Well, hard to say as I didn't have a chance to compare and likely won't have to any time soon.
 I simply went for the HDMI version because according to Kingwa - "The HDMI is balance transmit, in theory it is better transmit mode than the RJ45."
 I reckon as far as actual SQ improvements, it'd be splitting hair. I just found HDMI more convenient and more likely to be used than an RJ45 on a given product, but YMMV.


----------



## ciphercomplete

It has been pretty well established that HDMI is superior to RJ45.  Check out the Master 7 thread particularly posts from DACLadder and Purrin.  That thread is probably a big reason Kingwa started offering HDMI I2S.


----------



## soulorc

ciphercomplete said:


> It has been pretty well established that HDMI is superior to RJ45.  Check out the Master 7 thread particularly posts from DACLadder and Purrin.  That thread is probably a big reason Kingwa started offering HDMI I2S.


 
  I read through all the pages in Master 7 thread and I did remember that HDMI is superior to RJ45. And that's why I ordered HDMI version of Master 7. I thought audio gd would automatically give me quote on HDMI version of DI2014 when I ordered them together... I should have confirmed that before I placed the order. Maybe the fastest way to solve the problem is to order a HDMI I2S kit and install it on my DI-2014.


----------



## ciphercomplete

^It shouldn't be hard to do at all.  It sucks they didn't send you the HDMI version which really should be the default version, not the RJ45.


----------



## wmedrz

I've looked inside my DI and it's super easy. All you do is plug it in and put two drops of solder. Get the HDMI board from Audio gd for 20 bucks. 
  
 Question is, how do you like the sound as is? I have USB and HDMI and would love to compare it to RJ45 now....


----------



## soulorc

wmedrz said:


> I've looked inside my DI and it's super easy. All you do is plug it in and put two drops of solder. Get the HDMI board from Audio gd for 20 bucks.
> 
> Question is, how do you like the sound as is? I have USB and HDMI and would love to compare it to RJ45 now....


 
 Kingwa just agreed to send the HDMI kit to me for free. Haha! I really appreciate his business.
  
 I will try to compare the sound when I get the HDMI kit. One thing I am worrying about is that I am using a poor RJ45 cable now. Although I am not quite a cable believer, I think a poor cable may affect the sound quality. I have a Apollo HDMI cable which is suggested by DacLadder. I will try it once I install the HDMI kit on DI2014.


----------



## haitch

I purchased my DI-2014 around Christmas and after burn-in just put it into my main HiFi. And I must say that I am very impressed. I also did the upgrade of my M7 to I2S so that is how I connect the DI-2014 to the M7. My primary test was to use the optical input (via PC with WiFi to an Aiport Express) to the DI-2014 and on my system to my ears the sound has improved a lot over optical directly into the M7. I have also tried RCA from an Oppo transport into the DI-2014 compared to RCA into the M7 and the DI-2014 wins again although I did not find this margin as large. I have also compared USB into the DI-2014 versus the Oppo via RCA into the M7 and find the DI-2014 better. In all cases the DI-2014 is a clear winner. The sound improvement I hear is a richer, smoother tone to the music. There is also more air and a layer of hash that is removed; without the DI-2014 there was a glassiness and flatness I did not realize was there until it was removed. I have spent far more than what the DI-2014 costs on cables and received no where near this level of improvement. Having said this, I upgraded my amp and preamp last year and would not rate the DI-2014 as providing anywhere near that improvement. I still need to do more listening to compare coax versus optical versus USB into the DI-2014, as well as trying USB into the DI versus USB into the M7. But for anyone using optical into their M7 I would say you simply need to try the DI-2014, especially at what it costs.


----------



## soulorc

I installed the HDMI I2S kit on my DI-2014. I can't do a AB test since it takes some time to go back and forth. But my initial impression is that HDMI has wider soundstage and better instrument separation than RJ45.


----------



## conquerator2

Just a heads-up, the issues I've had with the DI's USB... Seemed to have been resolved by installing the latest drivers. I've been using the previous revision drivers and they seemed to work fine but those new ones seem to solve lots of issues people have had with their Audio-gd DACs [blue screens, etc.]
 Well, I'll keep watching for a few days and if things stay fine, then I guess all's good.


----------



## Miracle1980

Using only the NFB-28 dac with usb (connected to a computer) will i have some benefits purchasing the Audio-GD Digital Interface 2014?  Or this is meant to be used with other devices (decoder, TV, etc.)?
 Thanks


----------



## i019791

Any benefit for NFB-28 with the DI to spdif will be minimal, if audible at all
 I suggest you do not bother unless you try going i2s to NFB-28, which I doubt it will be plug & play - better to check with Audio gd


----------



## conquerator2

i019791 said:


> Any benefit for NFB-28 with the DI to spdif will be minimal, if audible at all
> I suggest you do not bother *unless you try going i2s to NFB-28, which I doubt it will be plug & play* - better to check with Audio gd


 
 Should be plug and play, it was plug and play with the NFB-7, driverless on Mac I believe. On Windows, I had to get the drivers going first of course. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 But the DI drivers and firmware updates are on the audio-gd site, or they're sent to you if you ask Kingwa/audio-gd


----------



## i019791

conquerator2 said:


> Should be plug and play, it was plug and play with the NFB-7, driverless on Mac I believe. On Windows, I had to get the drivers going first of course.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 So, was DI->i2s->nfb-7 significantly better than usb->nfb-7 or DI->spdif->nfb-7 ?


----------



## conquerator2

i019791 said:


> So, was DI->i2s->nfb-7 significantly better than usb->nfb-7 or DI->spdif->nfb-7 ?


 
 Not much if at all. I think this speaks volumes for both the DI and audio-gd's USB implementation.
 It means that a-gd's USB is darn solid already. It's gotten to a point that recent driver and firmware updates has gotten it to a point that an external box is not necessary anymore. Or at least not a 'budget' one.
 It also means that the DI is a darn solid piece of kit that can be used with anything that has no or crappy USB as a very viable and good solution. Same applies to the Gustard U12 I got. The two are different flavors of good 'budget' converters and I'd recommend either.
 They certainly don't sound worse, so I use them where I can.


----------



## conquerator2

Well, my DI has the improved transformer despite being an early one. I stand corrected.
 I gave Kingwa some flak for feeling disappointed but it turned out he didn't do me any wrong at all.
 Very satisfied with my purchase now! I have the souped up current HDMI version and I've saved 10$ +25% off for promo.


----------



## i019791

conquerator2 said:


> Not much if at all. I think this speaks volumes for both the DI and audio-gd's USB implementation.
> It means that a-gd's USB is darn solid already. It's gotten to a point that recent driver and firmware updates has gotten it to a point that an external box is not necessary anymore. Or at least not a 'budget' one.
> It also means that the DI is a darn solid piece of kit that can be used with anything that has no or crappy USB as a very viable and good solution. Same applies to the Gustard U12 I got. The two are different flavors of good 'budget' converters and I'd recommend either.
> They certainly don't sound worse, so I use them where I can.


 
 Any clarification on the flavor difference between the two ?


----------



## conquerator2

i019791 said:


> Any clarification on the flavor difference between the two ?




DI - brighter, airier, more spacious
U12 - warmer, smoother, more intimate


----------



## elwappo99

conquerator2 said:


> Well, my DI has the improved transformer despite being an early one. I stand corrected.
> I gave Kingwa some flak for feeling disappointed but it turned out he didn't do me any wrong at all.
> Very satisfied with my purchase now! I have the souped up current HDMI version and I've saved 10$ +25% off for promo.


 
  
 I know you were fretting over that. Good to hear you got the newer unit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Kingwa tends to send out new revisions units before he actually announces the updates. It's a pretty nice policy and very few other companies do that (especially in the headphone realm).


----------



## conquerator2

elwappo99 said:


> I know you were fretting over that. Good to hear you got the newer unit  .
> 
> Kingwa tends to send out new revisions units before he actually announces the updates. It's a pretty nice policy and very few other companies do that (especially in the headphone realm).




Yeah, it seems he used the improved transformer the first month. Then switched to the cheaper one and offered the better one as an upgrade.
I think the DI is a great deal. Do is the U12. Different flavours though. Opposite almost.


----------



## i019791

conquerator2 said:


> Yeah, it seems he used the improved transformer the first month. Then switched to the cheaper one and offered the better one as an upgrade.
> I think the DI is a great deal. Do is the U12. Different flavours though. Opposite almost.


 
 At roughly double the price currently, the DI does not seem much of a deal compared to the U12 - assuming they are equally competent and differing only in flavor


----------



## conquerator2

i019791 said:


> At roughly double the price currently, the DI does not seem much of a deal compared to the U12 - assuming they are equally competent and differing only in flavor




Well the DI has extra fuctionality.
It also does image and stage a bit better and is a bit crisper and detailed.
I will post more conclusives later.


----------



## Other8127

del


----------



## mowglycdb

Have you tried applying the firmware again? If it doesnt detect it, you may have to buy a replacement for the USB input board. Contact King-wa.


----------



## Other8127

del


----------



## mowglycdb

Not more than a day, in my experience -4GMT between 10pm and 4am


----------



## Yviena

Anyone have any thoughts about what input would be best between the PC and the DI I'm  thinking the USB would be better than both coax and optical.


----------



## conquerator2

yviena said:


> Anyone have any thoughts about what input would be best between the PC and the DI I'm  thinking the USB would be better than both coax and optical.


 
 Should be more or less equal. I use USB and Optical and they both sound great.


----------



## Yviena

I'm really considering modding the DI with 12mhz NDK clock has anyone else tried replacing the clock and how did it sound after the mod ?


----------



## Luckbad

Has anyone used both the Audio-GD DI-2014 and Gustard U12? I'm looking around for a good (but not OR5 level) USB->SPDIF converter. Thanks all!


----------



## Luckbad

Trying to order a DI-2014 but they haven't replied for over 24 hours. Cursed language barriers!


----------



## jodgey4

Sometimes email gets caught by The Great Firewall. Try again soon, they may have never gotten it. IME the longest response took ~48 hours, IIRC.


----------



## jimmychan

Yesterday was a holiday in China .​


----------



## Luckbad

jimmychan said:


> Yesterday was a holiday in China .​




Thank you! Confidence renewed. But that means I won't hear back until Monday. Bah!


----------



## Luckbad

Heard back today and have a DI-2014 with TXCO on the way. Almost got HDMI for resale potential but decided against it.


----------



## Luckbad

Got the DI-2014 in today.
  
 First impressions are positive as far as audio quality is concerned. Right now I'm having issues with it stopping playback after a short time in foobar2000 (using ASIO). Trying to figure out what's going on there and also checking it out in the new JRiver.


----------



## Luckbad

Crappy USB ports.
  
 That was the answer. I found one that has been working without issue for several hours now.


----------



## Luckbad

Saga update: Nope, even the gold USB port on my machine eventually loses connection. All the others freeze before a single song is over.
  
 I probably need a new motherboard before I keep this, so the DI-2014 is going back to Kingwa.


----------



## elwappo99

luckbad said:


> Saga update: Nope, even the gold USB port on my machine eventually loses connection. All the others freeze before a single song is over.
> 
> I probably need a new motherboard before I keep this, so the DI-2014 is going back to Kingwa.


 
  
 ARRRGGG ME MATEY!  (Because it's talk like a pirate day! )
  
  
 You're on an Audio-GD Binge!


----------



## Luckbad

I am, but unfortunately that Audio-GD binge made me have no money and I need to sell some stuff off ASAP before rent comes due.


----------



## GenpattonJames

Curious that I have seen several people mention that the DI improves sound from CD players and the like, yet there is no evidence on Kingwas site that it is made for that, it does not do any reclocking or up sampling on any of the inputs. Seems to me the only reason to purchase this would be taking a computer USB out to it as its aschyncronis and isolates the five volt power supply coming from the computers USB output.
The reason I am asking is that I am considering Emperical-Audios Synchro Mesh which does do reclocking.


----------



## jodgey4

Conversion to I2S is probably the main reason people see improvement, according to what I've heard about the format - it's more native to some DAC chips IIRC and the separate clock data is said to be the main reason. I'm pretty sure it reclocks/rebuilds the signal as well.
  
 And for CD players, it says:
 "The coaxial / optical inputs can improve on SQ from some low/mid rang coaxial output source. Like some DVD player, PC sound card, low/mid rang CDP like the Marantz CD67, ect. If the coaxial output source already  Hi-end quality, don't expect the DI-2014 can improve on SQ."


----------



## conquerator2

The DI-V2014 seems to be getting discontinued... :/


----------



## justbenice

Hi All.
 I am new to Audio GD DI and looking to buy a  DI-2014 so i have some questions :
  
 - From my computer to my DAC is 5M long, so what will be best in my case : using a 5M USB line from computer to DI-2014 then 0.5M hdmi cable from DI-2014 to  my DAC i2s hdmi port , or using 0.5M usb cable to DI-2014 then 5M hdmi from DI-2014 to my DAC ? 
 - My DAC using Amanero USB board with 2 clock chip to Crystek upgraded and it also have dedicated ultra-low noise power supply Linear for Amanero USB boad instead of using 5v from usb computer. In this case are there any sound improve if i use a DI-2014 as usb converter and connect it to my DAC i2s hdmi port ?
  
 Thank you !


----------



## elwappo99

conquerator2 said:


> The DI-V2014 seems to be getting discontinued... :/


 
  
 Yea pretty disappointing. The later DI versions really didn't pick up steam like the first version. But then again, the price almost doubled. At it's current price point, I don't see a reason to just buy a whole new DAC with a better USB implementation.


----------



## conquerator2

elwappo99 said:


> Yea pretty disappointing. The later DI versions really didn't pick up steam like the first version. But then again, the price almost doubled. At it's current price point, I don't see a reason to just buy a whole new DAC with a better USB implementation.


 
 If it could use the Anamero, then perhaps but as it is, there is though and cheaper competition [Gustard, Melodious, etc.].
 I hate the VIA drivers so when I buy my next product of theirs, it will definitely have the Anamero board.
 That and I might have to send it in for repair as the USB I can't get to work for quite some time. Optical and Coax is fine.
 Shame though as it is a really good product. The PSU section especially is formidably beefy, considering the size!


----------



## elwappo99

conquerator2 said:


> elwappo99 said:
> 
> 
> > Yea pretty disappointing. The later DI versions really didn't pick up steam like the first version. But then again, the price almost doubled. At it's current price point, I don't see a reason to just buy a whole new DAC with a better USB implementation.
> ...


 
  
 I don't know if I ever posted here, but I had a Gustard U12 that I was running to my Reference 1. I thought it was great. Threw on my test tracks and was really digging it. 0 problems with dropout.
  
 After 2 weeks of use I warmed up my old Reference 3 (the predecessor to the DI-V1, with a beefy power supply). WOW! The audio-gd reference 3 made the gustard sound grainy, unrefined and closed it. The only super noticeable thing was how much grainier the gustard sounded. Sold that U12 the next day.


----------



## conquerator2

I guess. I am still happy with the U12. Super smooth sound. Though I will probably get something else eventually, like the Melodious or something


----------



## BoyNamedSue

Reviving an old thread. I'm interested in the sonore microrendu and was wondering if the original audio-gd digital interface external power supply is compatible. Here are the specs I found on the Audio-gd DI power supply:
  
*3**, Upgrade the power supply :*
       The DI-PSU built in 7.5V / 600MA class A PSU, cooperate with the DI can become double stages class A PSU , offer clear power supply for the circuits. DI-PSU price USD75 without shipping cost , include 1 unit PSU, 2 units DC wires, 1 unit power cable . (The DC plug outside dia. is 5.5MM, inside hole dia. is 2.5MM)
  
 And here is the spec on the microrendu:
  
*SPECIFICATIONS*
Power input: 6-9 VDC at 1 Amp min.
Power connector: 2.1mm x 5.5mm (center +)
  
It looks like the power connector is same size. I don't want to risk damaging the microrendu in case it is not compatible.


----------



## jodgey4

Looks like the 600mA won't be enough current for thee microrendu, and the connector inside hole looks a little off.


----------



## BoyNamedSue

jodgey4 said:


> Looks like the 600mA won't be enough current for thee microrendu, and the connector inside hole looks a little off.




Thank you for the response. I wonder if the di psu can be modded to have enough current. I have a couple of them laying around and would love to repurpose them.


----------



## ChaosClouds

Anyone with DI-V3 running on windows 10?
It work flawlessly with windows 7, but now I can't manage to install the driver on windows 10, (instal driver fail, error code: 0x0, 0x0).


----------



## N15M0

How is the DI 2014 compared to newer USB converter like the Singxer SU-1?


----------



## seaice

I have both and the duel DI 2014 vs SU-1 has a clear winner: SU-1


----------



## N15M0

seaice said:


> I have both and the duel DI 2014 vs SU-1 has a clear winner: SU-1




Is the difference so great that's worthy my upgrade?


----------



## seaice

n15m0 said:


> Is the difference so great that's worthy my upgrade?


 

 What is your DAC and setup? With Audio-GD DACs, an USB converter upgrade is usually worth because it translates into better sound. So it is worth to me. I have never compared DI 2014 and SU-1 directly (I have already sold the DI-2014).


----------



## N15M0

seaice said:


> What is your DAC and setup? With Audio-GD DACs, an USB converter upgrade is usually worth because it translates into better sound. So it is worth to me. I have never compared DI 2014 and SU-1 directly (I have already sold the DI-2014).




I'm still running my old trusty DA11


----------



## seaice

n15m0 said:


> I'm still running my old trusty DA11


 

 I don't know DA11 so it is difficult to say what solution will be best in your case. How does your DAC respond to better digital transports? Have you considered a new DAC?


----------



## N15M0

seaice said:


> n15m0 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm still running my old trusty DA11
> ...




Not for now. Maybe sometime in the future. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------

