# Dr. Xin Is Back!



## mrarroyo

Well it appears Dr. Xin is back, he posted today in his website. I do not want to get my hopes up because of his lack of communication over the last 15 months or so.

 But I do hope he can ship out the amps shortly to those who have paid, specially via PayPal. Good luck to those with pending orders.


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## Zerachiel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well it appears Dr. Xin is back, he posted today in his website. I do not want to get my hopes up because of his lack of communication over the last 15 months or so.

 But I do hope he can ship out the amps shortly to those who have paid, specially via PayPal. Good luck to those with pending orders._

 

Incredible News!!!!!!....

 No seriously, it is a little unbelievable.


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## jamato8

Great.


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## olblueyez

Can you link to his site?


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## jamato8

Xin's Cool Talk - Support


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## ralfale

Did he explain why he go MIA


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## gilency

I don't know much about Dr Xin but I have read his amplifier waiting list thread with amusement. You could not pay me enough to buy one of his amplifiers. Feeble customer support and long waiting lists are not my thing. There are way too many good companies out there.


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## itsborken

If he blows out the backlog like he said he can in three months, I'd expect to see a few on sale at reasonable prices. I guess the days of crazy IC/pricing will be long gone.


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## omendelovitz

I said screw it and re-ordered. I've been using a Move for ages, so if it comes, it comes, and if not, ah well. I don't pay a cent until he ships so it's all good by me. I've had all the main players in the portables market, and must say that none represent music in as detailed a way as the Xin micros or macros (w/the right op-amps and buffers) in the same price range (talking micro here). Also, Xin's QC is some of the best I've seen.


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## robm321

I'm not a patient guy, so I bought my Xin amp used. Interested in getting a deal though if something is premade.


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## theory_87

finally. I can get my finalise Ref now.


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## HeadphoneAddict

nevermind...


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## flargosa

Hmmm, knowing how much of a perfectionist he is, he probably has lots of interesting design changes in mind, especially after months and months of being away. Hopefully, this does not translate to too much research time.


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## itsborken

Like Diablo, I hope the hype can be kept to a minimum until the folks waiting a year have received their References/upgrades. Let Xin make good on his past commitments before everyone swamps him with FOTM orders.


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## monolith

Nice. That guy does good work, even if he doesn't do it reliably.


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## vandread

Just wait n see how this whole thing will go..........

 ps: glad to hear about Dr Xin........


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## BushGuy

I had sold my Supermini and having been going "commando" with 1st gen. Nano/Klipsch Images........while perfectly o.k........it's good that I, as a expression of faith, ordered a new Supermini for this setup 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. 
 Had given up waiting on Reference, and snagged a fully-loaded Beta of it in the meantime. All is beautiful running iModded iPod/Reference/32 ohm Darths in the backyard.....purr-fect together


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## Quaddy

people placing new orders as of the last few days, it kind of legitimizes it all, and makes him think people will still order even when they know its taking more than a year!

 completely upto the buyer, obviously, but doesnt sit right with me IMHO.

 and allows him to think, he can gain a years grace by simply stating he is back?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




_we are all soft touches, me included!_


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## Kabeer

Well iv emailed him, and am not holding my breath untill I get a reply...

 I really hope he is back on form properly. Theres no point even saying how long iv been waiting.


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## robojack

Unless someone hacked his site, and made a few posts to get people stirred up again. I could see someone doing that, just to torture people with EVEN more waiting and hope.


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## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *robojack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Unless someone hacked his site, and made a few posts to get people stirred up again. I could see someone doing that, just to torture people with EVEN more waiting and hope._

 

I hadn't thought of that, but that would be evil. 

 I am not sure about hacking his site since he specializes in computer sciences but I guess many very well guarded sites have been hacked.


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## oicdn

Meh...garbage....


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## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hadn't thought of that, but that would be evil. 

 I am not sure about hacking his site since he specializes in computer sciences but I guess many very well guarded sites have been hacked._

 

Well he did have that virus on the site he mentions on the home page... Nobody knows all about computers just like cardiac nurses don't 'know' Neuro ICU, etc. The com sci field is certainly specialization, all the way.


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## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *itsborken* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well he did have that virus on the site he mentions on the home page... Nobody knows all about computers just like cardiac nurses don't 'know' Neuro ICU, etc. The com sci field is certainly specialization, all the way._

 

True but the one constant is change. I used to be a cardiac critical care nurse but now I do ICU cardiac, neuro, trauma and anything else that comes along, like a gun shot through both temples with grey matter coming out the nose. 

 I think it was most likely Xin but now nothing again.


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## ZephyrSapphire

So. Back to the topic. Anyone got a confirmation of their's being shipped yet?


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## RedSky0

I bet the whole disappearance act was all a marketing ploy to make his amps seem mysterious and elusive!

 Anyway, I'll be satisfied when my SuperMicro is sitting in my hands.


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## krmathis

Great news!
 Especially for those waiting for the amplifier to arrive.


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## jamato8

So has anyone received an email or notification?


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## evilking

So what "he's back"?

 He still has 15-16 months of orders to get through!


 If I hadn't cancelled my order 13 months ago...








 EK


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## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So has anyone received an email or notification?_

 

I emailed him straight away 2 days ago as my credit card has expired since the order was originally placed last summer but have not had a reply.


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## tk3

Let's hope he is busy building and shipping out a batch soon.


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## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RedSky0* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I bet the whole disappearance act was all a marketing ploy to make his amps seem mysterious and elusive!_

 

I'd hope he realizes reputations are a lot easier to destroy then rebuild.


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## tha_dude

Perhaps those with alternative means of contacting him can verify if he's really back?


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## aluren

perhaps he can introduce something new, get everybody's money, then hide out for another 12 months.


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## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tha_dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Perhaps those with alternative means of contacting him can verify if he's really back?_

 

Yes, he is back.


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## oicdn

In anycase, it's amazing this place is giving him as much credit as he's getting. Who cares if his products are even decent...they're not good enough to warrant a 14 month+ wait. Nobody's are, especially now a days with so many other options from companies who are actually caring of theIr customers and make great products that even look better, are built better and are cheaper!

 The only viable reason for purchasing one, is if you REALLY need the small form factor of the SMIV, and have an amp to get your through then (all the other amps are of comparable sizes AND SQ to others, so why would you even bother?). Even still, you have to hope your CC doesn't expire before your order gets processed. Haha.


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oicdn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In anycase, it's amazing this place is giving him as much credit as he's getting. Who cares if his products are even decent...they're not good enough to warrant a 14 month+ wait. Nobody's are, especially now a days with so many other options from companies who are actually caring of theIr customers and make great products that even look better, are built better and are cheaper!

 The only viable reason for purchasing one, is if you REALLY need the small form factor of the SMIV, and have an amp to get your through then (all the other amps are of comparable sizes AND SQ to others, so why would you even bother?). Even still, you have to hope your CC doesn't expire before your order gets processed. Haha._

 

Exactly. I only want it for the small form factor. I have several amps to use, and if some day the guy ships me a Super Micro IV great, if not then I lose nothing. I did warn him my credit card expires in November. I tried to buy a used one for $250 but was outbid at over $275. I don't need it bad enough to pay that much. No rush, fortunately.


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## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Exactly. I only want it for the small form factor. I have several amps to use, and if some day the guy ships me a Super Micro IV great, if not then I lose nothing. I did warn him my credit card expires in November. I tried to buy a used one for $250 but was outbid at over $275. I don't need it bad enough to pay that much. No rush, fortunately._

 

Was it a Micro IV for 275? The newest Micro will be slightly different but no idea how soon they will be out.


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## tha_dude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Was it a Micro IV for 275? The newest Micro will be slightly different but no idea how soon they will be out._

 

Does that mean the Reference has some new changes?


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Was it a Micro IV for 275? The newest Micro will be slightly different but no idea how soon they will be out._

 

Yeah, Super Micro IV. Any news you have I would love to receive. Can you explain?


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## jamato8

I am sorry, I was thinking of the Micro before the last change and now I realize that it was implemented but that not many went out. That was the change around last December.


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## Kabeer

Has anyone actually received an email reply from Dr. Xin since his post? (i havent)

 Because if you havent, then his idea of prompt reply is not that good.


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## jpnz

I've received a very quick reply within 7 minutes, so i guess that is a good sign..


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## tk3

What did he say?
 I sent him an email also a few days ago, but haven't had a reply.


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## jpnz

I've asked him with detailed information to send my supermicro IV. He replied:
 "I will, thank you, Xin"


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## chadbang

Why does everyone kiss this guy's ass? I order a new case for an amp and some parts a few months ago. Parts!$! How long would that take to assemble? Never got them. Forgot about them, now this thread just reminded me. Since he's now "back" I think I'll email him a nasty letter. That's what more people need to do. Threaten him with legal action. If you kiss a thief's hand, he's going to keeping stealing from you. Get legal on his ass and watch the refunds and orders start flying out.


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## JarodL1

I can't believe how willing people are to forgive the fact that this guy walked on with people's money and offered no communication for a year. Are you all really that gullible? 

 His name should be banned from this site. I don't care what excuse he offers, there is no reason he couldn't take 5 minutes to post an update on his site saying he will be out of contact.


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## oicdn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jpnz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've asked him with detailed information to send my supermicro IV. He replied:
 "I will, thank you, Xin"_

 

lol.

 How else do you expect him to reply to 14+ months worth of unanswered eMails if his eMails aren't "to the point". 

 All kidding aside dude, that's some SERIOUS BS.


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## nickyboyo

Xin's amps are among the finest out there, the only reason some folks are cheesed off is because of the wait and lack of communication. He is obviously a very busy man, but in the end he does deliver the goods. 

 It reminds me of buying a car, if you want a nice sporty hot hatch 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 you go to the dealership and pay your money.

 If you want something a little bit different you travel to see the machine, you place you order and eventually you end up with something that is worth more than what you paid for it.






 Patience is a virtue so they say.


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## JarodL1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nickyboyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Xin's amps are among the finest out there, the only reason some folks are cheesed off is because of the wait and lack of communication. He is obviously a very busy man, but in the end he does deliver the goods. 

 It reminds me of buying a car, if you want a nice sporty hot hatch 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 you go to the dealership and pay your money.

 If you want something a little bit different you travel to see the machine, you place you order and eventually you end up with something that is worth more than what you paid for it.






 Patience is a virtue so they say._

 

That might be one of the dumbest things I have read on the internet. I can't believe how naive some people are on this site when it comes to business ethics.


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## nickyboyo

I can't believe how wound up people become when they have to wait for something. As for business ethics, he isn't doing too badly for someone who makes amps in his spare time and people are still willing to order and wait for however long the product takes to be delivered. If it was his main source of income then that would be a different story, but it's not, so patience is the name of the game.


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## JarodL1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nickyboyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't believe how wound up people become when they have to wait for something. As for business ethics, he isn't doing too badly for someone who makes amps in his spare time and people are still willing to order and wait for however long the product takes to be delivered. If it was his main source of income then that would be a different story, but it's not, so patience is the name of the game._

 

You obviously have no concept of how a business is run. Whether it is his primary source of income or 197th job makes no difference. He has a responsibility to his customers to deliver a product within a reasonable time frame once it is paid for. His site says products will ship within a month, charging people and then having ZERO communication for 16 months (in my case), is completely unacceptable.

 If he wants to run his business like he has, he should clearly write in big letters on the front of his site "This is a hobby for me and as such products likely won't be shipped out in any specific time frame, orders should be placed with that in mind".


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## nickyboyo

Hey i'm with you when you say it's unacceptable, and yes it should be made clear on his site of the possible delay in delivery, but that's just the way it is. Folks venting off saying ban him, strike him off, etc. doesn't achieve anything, apart from increased frustration. 

 I hope you receive your amp in the very near future and i hope you enjoy what i'm sure will be a superb sounding amp. In the mean time crack open a cold one, throw something you enjoy listening to on the stereo and relax, life is too short to waste worrying about business strategies, amp deliveries or whatever other trivial thing in life is increasing your blood pressure. Never sweat the small things


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## WaxMan

All good things to those who wait. I am a huge RSA fan, but from what I've read Dr. Xin is one of the masters. If his amps sound as good as the reviews people give them, then it would only be natural to also believe that they are worth waiting for.


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## GreatDane

I've owned a Xin amp. I got mine quick(?) with a wait of 8 weeks +/- at the time (6 weeks to upgrade). It was a SuperMini IV which cost $200. Build quality was below average for that price IMO. SQ was its savior. The volume control was terrible though. I've sold it and moved on with no regrets. 

 Good luck to those waiting.


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## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jpnz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've asked him with detailed information to send my supermicro IV. He replied:
 "I will, thank you, Xin"_

 

Great detail from him, commiserations. Makes me think he is so buried with unfulfilled orders/upgrades/repairs he doesn't have a clue where to begin. If receipt postings don't start showing up in the next week or two I've got to conclude Xin's just buying more time with his post. He's got to start walking the talk and the time is now.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WaxMan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All good things to those who wait. I am a huge RSA fan, but from what I've read Dr. Xin is one of the masters._

 

People have been waiting 14 months with nothing to show for it. We've all read how good they are but if you haven't heard/seen one, it's hearsay.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've owned a Xin amp... SuperMini IV...Build quality was below average for that price IMO. SQ was its savior. The volume control was terrible though. I've sold it and moved on with no regrets._

 

Doesn't sound like an amp I'd be happy to receive after a 14 month wait.


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## ljs

The only people who can actually complain are those who paid with paypal or those who sent their amps for upgrade.

 The others should seriously get a life: this is a free market, if you dont want to buy or if you think Xin is not someone you wish to deal with, you can move on.

 I dont really care about the wait: I dont have any money engaged so if I get my amp, I'll be happy, if I dont, I dont really care.


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## chadbang

Got my refund.


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## asebastian0

A lot of people seem to be complaining about "stolen" money, thieves and lawyers. Xin doesn't charge until he ships. These aren't mass produced items. There is a wait. If you didn't know this before you sent in your order, you didn't do your research. Maybe find a new hobby. 

 That being said the wait has really, really increased of late. Hopefully Xin turns this around because SQ wise, his amps are hard to beat in the ultra-portable category.


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## jamato8

Ok, I have emailed with Xin. He never wanted payment until the product shipped but PayPal does not offer this option. Credit Cards do offer this and he never charges until the product is shipped. The PayPal charges have always stayed there, in PayPal. There are some purchasers that only can use Pay Pal so this is where the problem is for both him and the purchaser. 

 There is no question he needs to correspond on a open and regular basis. The Reference is finished and has minor changes that have come about over past 1/2 year. I hope everything moves along now to everyone's satisfaction.


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## dazzer1975

I received an email from Xin 4 hrs after sending an email to him today.

 Previously none of the 4 or 5 emails have ever been acknowledged.

 *edit* thought people would be interested to know what he said, he said this:

 "All orders are heavily delayed." along with some other info relating my order which wasn't pertinent to this thread.

 However, tell us something we don't know xin lmao


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## Quaddy

i am going to have a go at emailing him now also, see if he still knows what my order is and just re-confirming it all.

*edit:* quite unbelievable, i just got a reply with the immortal words of "ok, thanks, xin" - i got this reply *within 5 minutes* of sending it!!


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## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Quaddy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*edit:* quite unbelievable, i just got a reply with the immortal words of "ok, thanks, xin" - i got this reply *within 5 minutes* of sending it!!_

 

Was that all he said?


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## Quaddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *itsborken* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Was that all he said?_

 

it was yes, verbatim. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 i have only ever gotten that or similar 3 word replies, even to half a page of my rambling, hehe


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## itsborken

His 'reply' is beyond sad.


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## HeadphoneAddict

He seems to want people to know he is back, but I figure he can't be emailing all day and have time to be building amps at the same time.


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## BushGuy

gee folks........that's the way to go. Bombard him with emails. It seems the ideal thing to do - if you find reading/answering emails is better than him actually building the amps. Personally, I choose to eschew sending any email unless absolutely, positively necessary!


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## Quaddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BushGuy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_gee folks........that's the way to go. Bombard him with emails. It seems the ideal thing to do - if you find reading/answering emails is better than him actually building the amps. Personally, I choose to eschew sending any email unless absolutely, positively necessary!_

 

to be honest, that was how i felt, but then i had the ominous feeling that unless i reply to him and re-confirm my order now, how am i supposed to know that it is 'in-hand' - i dont want to wait another 6 months only to find out that he only started processing the orders that were brought to mind recently.

 who knows, i cant speak for his filing system or order line, and how he goes through them all again. what i am saying is you have nothing to lose by making it fresh in his mind once more.

*"I choose to eschew sending any email unless absolutely, positively necessary!"*

 well it could well be that reminding him of your order is positively necessary in terms of you receiving it, with xins seemingly scatterbrain approach to orders!


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## evilking

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *asebastian0* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A lot of people seem to be complaining about "stolen" money, thieves and lawyers. Xin doesn't charge until he ships. These aren't mass produced items. There is a wait. *If you didn't know this before you sent in your order, you didn't do your research.* Maybe find a new hobby._

 



 Really? 15 months ago there was information available that suggested delivery may take _more_ than 15 months?


 I must have missed it...








 EK


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## Kabeer

Well Iv got a reply from him too. I must be fairly near the front of the queue (3rd April last year).
 But no estimated build time yet.

 I really hope he is working hard to build the backlog for everyone's sake.


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## rhythmdevils

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BushGuy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_gee folks........that's the way to go. Bombard him with emails. It seems the ideal thing to do - if you find reading/answering emails is better than him actually building the amps. Personally, I choose to eschew sending any email unless absolutely, positively necessary!_

 

I totally agree. let's flood him with emails so he won't have time to do anything but answer them all! great idea. i do agree with quaddy though, and i see his point about making sure the order is there. but beyond that, it's pretty rediculous IMO. 

 and I agree that he should be sending amps out, and this isn't the best thing to do to everybody. but i also think it's kind of amazing how many people are spending their time hovering in this thread just to throw insults into every page. i guess it's understandable why you are angry though


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## nc8000

I needed to contact him since it is so long since I ordered that I couldn't remember what I ordered and my credit card has expired since then so he needed the new number.


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## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhythmdevils* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I totally agree. let's flood him with emails so he won't have time to do anything but answer them all! great idea. i do agree with quaddy though, and i see his point about making sure the order is there. but beyond that, it's pretty rediculous IMO. 

 and I agree that he should be sending amps out, and this isn't the best thing to do to everybody. but i also think it's kind of amazing how many people are spending their time hovering in this thread just to throw insults into every page. i guess it's understandable why you are angry though_

 


 How is the Reference sounding?


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## PhaedrusX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhythmdevils* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I totally agree. let's flood him with emails so he won't have time to do anything but answer them all! great idea. i do agree with quaddy though, and i see his point about making sure the order is there. but beyond that, it's pretty rediculous IMO..._

 

well, this is from Xin:

 "If you emailed to us but have not got a reply yet, please email again, so I don't have to dig all way back to find your mail."

 i agree that frivolous emails should be avoided, but after a year of being incommunicado i see little harm in recapitulating any past requests. and if it actually saves him time, all the better.

 anyways, like nc8000, i needed to send him new credit card digits, and he replied within a couple days to confirm everything.

 hope springs eternal.


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## BushGuy

Jamato8. re the Reference (from iModded iPod).........it has proven to be the perfect mating to my 32ohm Darths. They are always brighter and a little less bassy than std Darths......the Reference tubey-ness rounds that brightness off ever-so-slightly so that they become more alive (fuller) like a closed upper-level Grado (BTW - also enjoy using the Reference with Alessandro MS Pro). Remember, this is one with the 22000uf cap.


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## krmathis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I needed to contact him since it is so long since I ordered that I couldn't remember what I ordered and my credit card has expired since then so he needed the new number._

 

That certainly say something about the waiting time.
 You have waited so long that you don't remember what you ordered..


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## DemonicLemming

Just reading this and other threads on here dealing with similar things (insane wait times, lack of communication, constant "Shipping soon!" emails without real action) would be enough to cause one to be a bit leery about buying things from many headphone-related companies now. It really shouldn't take involved research just to see if the company you sent money to, or placed an order with, can even be expected to give you a real timeframe in which the product can be expected, much less actually be in contact or build the products they have for sale.

 I've seen a lot of custom and semi-custom/low-yield runs on various things over the years, but I have NEVER seen customers make up the amount of excuses to cover the manufacturers' collective asses as I have on here. Regardless of whether something is the absolute best in its class, taking money/orders and being "out of contact" for over a year in many cases - and sometimes even longer! - is absolutely inane.

 I guess there doesn't need to be any personal responsibility on the part of these manufacturers because the people who buy their "products" will make excuses to cover for whatever problems that come up. True, it's not a _huge_ thing in life, but I'm sure plenty of people have ordered products from these companies thinking they'd have the product they ordered in a reasonable time frame, and the inevitable "It'll ship tomorrow!" response, or utter lack of response, has caused quite a few of those people to keep postponing refund requests or to hang onto the hope that they might actually get what they bought.

 I don't - and never will - have any money invested in any company that can't be bothered to answer emails, even in a delayed fashion due to overwhelming production requirements. An hour a day isn't that long, and would go a very, very long way towards answering emails and voicemails from clients, instead of simply leaving everyone in the dark. Threads like this should be required reading for noobs like me who, without long-term immersion in the hobby, don't know who can even be trusted to build what's ordered. I'm sure that, had I ordered a Xin amp or some of the others prior to reading any of the threads about them, I could have eventually gotten a refund, but the point is, one shouldn't _have_ to do that. I could have spent the month or two months or year I'd have spent waiting on either an amp or a refund listening to another amp, instead of sitting around, waiting and hoping that what I ordered came in before I got senile.

 The worst thing is, there seems to be no personal responsibility with the manufacturers to stop taking orders until they get caught up - which just causes things to keep piling up and to get worse and worse. I'm sure there are people willing to wait two years with no contact from the builder for an amp....but for every one of those people, there are probably ten who, like me, balance purchases as much on lead and wait time as they do on price and quality, and no one should be forced to read threads on forums to see whether a manufacturer is blatantly lying about wait times and shipping or not.


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## ljs

Please take a look a the post #57
 You must be really bored to write such a lengthy post with so few (none in fact) value-added comments.


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## itsborken

Respectfully, ease off and let him freely air his opinions as that is the purpose of HeadFi. If you were the moderator that would be a different matter, but until then all perspectives should be welcomed even if not agreed with.


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## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *itsborken* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Respectfully, ease off and let him freely air his opinions as that is the purpose of HeadFi. If you were the moderator that would be a different matter, but until then all perspectives should be welcomed even if not agreed with._

 


 ditto, especially when the guy has a point!


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## robojack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DemonicLemming* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just reading this and other threads on here dealing with similar things (insane wait times, lack of communication, constant "Shipping soon!" emails without real action) would be enough to cause one to be a bit leery about buying things from many headphone-related companies now. It really shouldn't take involved research just to see if the company you sent money to, or placed an order with, can even be expected to give you a real timeframe in which the product can be expected, much less actually be in contact or build the products they have for sale.

 I've seen a lot of custom and semi-custom/low-yield runs on various things over the years, but I have NEVER seen customers make up the amount of excuses to cover the manufacturers' collective asses as I have on here. Regardless of whether something is the absolute best in its class, taking money/orders and being "out of contact" for over a year in many cases - and sometimes even longer! - is absolutely inane.

 I guess there doesn't need to be any personal responsibility on the part of these manufacturers because the people who buy their "products" will make excuses to cover for whatever problems that come up. True, it's not a huge thing in life, but I'm sure plenty of people have ordered products from these companies thinking they'd have the product they ordered in a reasonable time frame, and the inevitable "It'll ship tomorrow!" response, or utter lack of response, has caused quite a few of those people to keep postponing refund requests or to hang onto the hope that they might actually get what they bought.

 I don't - and never will - have any money invested in any company that can't be bothered to answer emails, even in a delayed fashion due to overwhelming production requirements. An hour a day isn't that long, and would go a very, very long way towards answering emails and voicemails from clients, instead of simply leaving everyone in the dark. Threads like this should be required reading for noobs like me who, without long-term immersion in the hobby, don't know who can even be trusted to build what's ordered. I'm sure that, had I ordered a Xin amp or some of the others prior to reading any of the threads about them, I could have eventually gotten a refund, but the point is, one shouldn't have to do that. I could have spent the month or two months or year I'd have spent waiting on either an amp or a refund listening to another amp, instead of sitting around, waiting and hoping that what I ordered came in before I got senile.

 The worst thing is, there seems to be no personal responsibility with the manufacturers to stop taking orders until they get caught up - which just causes things to keep piling up and to get worse and worse. I'm sure there are people willing to wait two years with no contact from the builder for an amp....but for every one of those people, there are probably ten who, like me, balance purchases as much on lead and wait time as they do on price and quality, and no one should be forced to read threads on forums to see whether a manufacturer is blatantly lying about wait times and shipping or not._

 

 Agreed, this place doesn't scrutinize people for posting something that someone else has already mentioned. Otherwise, all the amp/headphone vs amp/headphone threads would be flame threads, which in reality they're not. Besides, the poster does have a good point, and I agree that good communication is key to good customer satisfaction. If anything, it's just as important (if not more so at certain times) than a good product.


----------



## JarodL1

Still no confirms of amps shipped, another lie from Xin.


----------



## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JarodL1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Still no confirms of amps shipped, another lie from Xin._

 

Well, he *could* be working on a batch of amps and plans to ship them all together. Not exactly what he needs to do IMO, as getting *something* to the public to show he's walking the talk is what's needed, not a big batch release 1.5 months from now. If he ships one every other day as he starts to ramp up, at least it's proof he's understanding the angst and wants to eliminate it. I understand building batches is more efficient but he needs to clear his name more than be ultra-efficient. Once he's clearly in a build mode then he slowly switches to larger batches to be efficient.

 I'd give him a few weeks since his reappearance to get something into a enduser's hands. Lies is a pretty strong word implying intentional deception vs. just being a screw-up. Having to re-poll customers tells me he doesn't maintain an order list and makes me think its more of the latter than the former.


----------



## DemonicLemming

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ljs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please take a look a the post #57
 You must be really bored to write such a lengthy post with so few (none in fact) value-added comments._

 

I'm not too sure what a "value-added comment" is, but my post was simply an open-ended statement about how things seem to be going in the market, coming from the viewpoint of a new guy who might very well have made a very expensive mistake without knowing it until it was too late.

 I'm not trying to bash any of the manufacturers, say they make bad products, etc etc. There simply needs to be more personal responsibility among those companies as far as not taking orders when they have a large backlog, better customer support, and no "blackouts" when they simply disappear without any warning or reason, for months at a time.

 If you walked into a store, saw a product, and said, "I would like to buy that." and either paid for it at that time, or gave them your credit card information to be billed later, then left the store, would it be acceptable for the store to not send your product within a reasonable timeframe without any warning ahead of time (like at purchase) that it would likely be a very long wait, to completely ignore all attempts to contact them, and to occasionally notify you that your product was either ready to ship or was being shipped, with absolutely no intention whatsoever to actually adhere to what they said? Furthermore, do you think that you should have to do in-depth research on a company just to see if they actually ship things when they say they will? That's sort of an expected thing - if I tell a client I'll be mailing something to them on a certain day, or give them a specific timeframe as to when they'll receive their product, I either ship it when I tell them I would, or I contact them as soon as possible to let them know something's come up and that their order will be delayed.

 I'm simply confused as to why such practices are acceptable in this niche market, and even more confused as to why people who spend thousands of dollars on equipment feel the need to make excuses for the manufacturers they bought the equipment from when the aforementioned problems arise. I've seen extremely scathing posts by members on here while waiting for their stuff, then as soon as they get it, they do a complete and utter reversal of position and even go so far as to say they'd continue to do business with the manufacturer! When people like that defend the manufacturer, it makes it impossible for everyone else who is NOT happy with the service to really be able to do anything - because the manufacturers know as long as there are customers out there blindly defending them, that they'll be able to continue their business practices.

 It just seems that too many members on here either don't want to say anything about specific companies - which, in a twisted sense, I can understand, if they have outstanding orders with those companies and publicly criticizing them might (note, I'm not saying it DOES happen, merely a hypothetical) cause yet more delays with their order - or that those who do are buried under the avalanche of, "He makes good products when he does eventually deliver them, just ignore all the bad aspects, like no communication, blackouts, false shipping dates and shipping confirmation. None of that is important!" posts. It just makes it even worse when a manufacturer pops back up out of nowhere, promises to take care of everything, then disappears yet again, making people who had given up on getting their stuff start to wonder, "Well, wait, is he really back? Does that mean I'm going to get my amp now? What's happening?" for another month, until they realize it's just a repetition of what happened before.


----------



## JarodL1

itsborken,

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Shipping starts tomorrow._

 

Xin posted that on his site on 7/8. It is now more then a week later and I still haven't seen an amp ship. So yes, I would call that a lie.


----------



## StanleyB1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *itsborken* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd give him a few weeks since his reappearance to get something into a enduser's hands. Lies is a pretty strong word implying intentional deception vs. just being a screw-up. Having to re-poll customers tells me he doesn't maintain an order list and makes me think its more of the latter than the former._

 

You are such an optimist. If I believed every piece of junk mail that lands in my inbox I would be the same.


----------



## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JarodL1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_itsborken,



 Xin posted that on his site on 7/8. It is now more then a week later and I still haven't seen an amp ship. So yes, I would call that a lie._

 


 Well, give him a few days to build the amp and a few days for UPS/USPS/whatever logistics for it to land on a doorstop. 

 So, if he worked an order for the Western US, I'd say amps should be arriving on someone's doorstop in the next day or two. Eastern US, I'd give another week, overseas a week after that. But, if he's batching who knows when that batch will get to the logistics company he uses.

 BTW, I'm no Xin booster, just trying to take a measured approach. If he doesn't start delivering soon, yeah, I'll be calling shenanigans too, count on it. I've pretty much been doing it since last Thanksgiving when I cancelled my order.


----------



## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StanleyB1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You are such an optimist. If I believed every piece of junk mail that lands in my inbox I would be the same._

 

Hardly to either count. 

 Don't you believe someone can change their attitude if they put their mind to it? If not, so he gets another few week's rope to hang himself--he's not going to do any more damage as long as new orders aren't flowing in. I think he just played his last 'get out of jail free' card with people around here. Let's see how it turns out.


----------



## evilking

It's suprising how some members are so flippant with their money. "Just pay by card and he'll charge it whenever he decides to dispatch..." "Who cares? You haven't put any money down, just be patient." "He's just real busy making the amps better." "It'll be a surprise!"

 Not knowing when or if my Credit/Debit card will be charged with hundreds of dollars is a very strange situation to be in, one I've never been in and not likely to ever be in.


 Also, did everyone forget that he previously said all amps would be shipped by Thanksgiving of _last_ year (2007)?







 EK


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## aluren

well that feeling would depend on your budget. i have yet to encounter another scenario where i would be dying to have my credit card be charged... i remember when i received my first xin amp couple years ago, seeing that $250 charged to my card was like a God-send gift! (granted, it was charged before i received the amp, so it generated an excitement for me...)


----------



## JarodL1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *itsborken* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, give him a few days to build the amp and a few days for UPS/USPS/whatever logistics for it to land on a doorstop. 

 So, if he worked an order for the Western US, I'd say amps should be arriving on someone's doorstop in the next day or two. Eastern US, I'd give another week, overseas a week after that. But, if he's batching who knows when that batch will get to the logistics company he uses.

 BTW, I'm no Xin booster, just trying to take a measured approach. If he doesn't start delivering soon, yeah, I'll be calling shenanigans too, count on it. I've pretty much been doing it since last Thanksgiving when I cancelled my order._

 

You are missing the point. Xin *SAID* they would ship the next day, that was 8 days ago. When he ships amps he sends out emails the same day or the day before they ship. Therefore he lied. He didn't say he would start building the next day, and then ship in a few days, and then arrive a few days later. Stop trying to defend the guy. I have never come across such a gullible group of people as there are on this site, it is almost painful to read sometimes.


----------



## Pangaea

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DemonicLemming* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not too sure what a "value-added comment" is, but my post was simply an open-ended statement about how things seem to be going in the market, coming from the viewpoint of a new guy who might very well have made a very expensive mistake without knowing it until it was too late.

 I'm not trying to bash any of the manufacturers, say they make bad products, etc etc. There simply needs to be more personal responsibility among those companies as far as not taking orders when they have a large backlog, better customer support, and no "blackouts" when they simply disappear without any warning or reason, for months at a time.

 If you walked into a store, saw a product, and said, "I would like to buy that." and either paid for it at that time, or gave them your credit card information to be billed later, then left the store, would it be acceptable for the store to not send your product within a reasonable timeframe without any warning ahead of time (like at purchase) that it would likely be a very long wait, to completely ignore all attempts to contact them, and to occasionally notify you that your product was either ready to ship or was being shipped, with absolutely no intention whatsoever to actually adhere to what they said? Furthermore, do you think that you should have to do in-depth research on a company just to see if they actually ship things when they say they will? That's sort of an expected thing - if I tell a client I'll be mailing something to them on a certain day, or give them a specific timeframe as to when they'll receive their product, I either ship it when I tell them I would, or I contact them as soon as possible to let them know something's come up and that their order will be delayed.

*I'm simply confused as to why such practices are acceptable in this niche market, and even more confused as to why people who spend thousands of dollars on equipment feel the need to make excuses for the manufacturers they bought the equipment from when the aforementioned problems arise. I've seen extremely scathing posts by members on here while waiting for their stuff, then as soon as they get it, they do a complete and utter reversal of position and even go so far as to say they'd continue to do business with the manufacturer! When people like that defend the manufacturer, it makes it impossible for everyone else who is NOT happy with the service to really be able to do anything - because the manufacturers know as long as there are customers out there blindly defending them, that they'll be able to continue their business practices.*

 It just seems that too many members on here either don't want to say anything about specific companies - which, in a twisted sense, I can understand, if they have outstanding orders with those companies and publicly criticizing them might (note, I'm not saying it DOES happen, merely a hypothetical) cause yet more delays with their order - or that those who do are buried under the avalanche of, "He makes good products when he does eventually deliver them, just ignore all the bad aspects, like no communication, blackouts, false shipping dates and shipping confirmation. None of that is important!" posts. It just makes it even worse when a manufacturer pops back up out of nowhere, promises to take care of everything, then disappears yet again, making people who had given up on getting their stuff start to wonder, "Well, wait, is he really back? Does that mean I'm going to get my amp now? What's happening?" for another month, until they realize it's just a repetition of what happened before._

 


 I've felt this way about this hobby since I first made an order to a company that shall remain nameless for a simple $20 interconnect- I was instead sent a (and charged for) a $250 cardas HP cable. It took 2 months and countless ignored emails to get it rectified. But alas I am a sucker for audio gear, and alas it was just the beginning of customer service issues I have had in this niche (Some I will say, are beyond great - see my sig)... by the way I have been in Xin purgatory for a yr. But hey- what a ride!


----------



## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JarodL1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You are missing the point. Xin *SAID* they would ship the next day, that was 8 days ago. When he ships amps he sends out emails the same day or the day before they ship. Therefore he lied..._

 

You're right, I didn't catch that nuance; I heard he was going to catch up everything in 3 months. I must be quite a Xin shill to give him an extra week


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## JarodL1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *itsborken* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You're right, I didn't catch that nuance; I heard he was going to catch up everything in 3 months. I must be quite a Xin shill to give him an extra week 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Again, he has had over 16 months with my money. I am tired of hearing his empty promises and people swarming to him saying oh it's ok, you provide a special product. What would you do if your bank told you for 16 months, sorry this was only a hobby for us, we'll get you your money eventually. Yes, it is different circumstances but it is not how you run a business.


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## itsborken

Been there. That's why after four months of stall on Reference shipping @ Thanksgiving I took the refund route. 

 You're in the driver's seat--you can either continue to wait or request the refund now. Seems like Xin is happy to refund and cut his workload.


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## evilking

I went looking for comments about Xin and his amps approximately one year ago and I found this amusingly ironic post:

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JarodL1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As long as someone doesn't mind the wait, *I can't imagine why they would buy a Tomahawk or Hornet over the Supermicro.* I haven't seen one review where someone said the TH or Hornet had better SQ then the supermicro, not to mention the supermicro cost almost half of the other two._

 

Well, now you know. Anyone who ordered a Hornet or a Tomahawk in April of 2007 has been listening to sweet, sweet RSA sound for over a year...








 EK


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## nickyboyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *evilking* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I went looking for comments about Xin and his amps approximately one year ago and I found this amusingly ironic post:



 Well, now you know. Anyone who ordered a Hornet or a Tomahawk in April of 2007 has been listening to sweet, sweet RSA sound for over a year...








 EK_

 

you just got to love the tomahawk


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## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *evilking* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I went looking for comments about Xin and his amps approximately one year ago and I found this amusingly ironic post:



 Well, now you know. Anyone who ordered a Hornet or a Tomahawk in April of 2007 has been listening to sweet, sweet RSA sound for over a year...








 EK_

 


 Indeed, but then hindsight is always 20/20


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## grenert

Just the title of this thread - declaring he's "back" when all he's done so far is make a post or two, refunded some folks, and started replying to email - says a lot about the eagerness of his fans to forgive and, obviously, FORGET (about all of the past broken promises). I hope everyone gets what they want, whether it's an amp in a reasonable amount of time, or a refund. I stopped waiting a long time ago and canceled my order. I won't believe he's back until amps end up in folks' hands.


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## david21

I don't know this Xin guy but.. why wont people request a refund and then place a new order once the guy starts shipping his amps out? Just wondering.


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## david21

post 100. thank you. nm it's 101. oh well i tried =|


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## cbw

Probably because that would just put them at the back of the list..... 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *david21* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know this Xin guy but.. why wont people request a refund and then place a new order once the guy starts shipping his amps out? Just wondering._


----------



## david21

That makes sense. I forgot that these portable amps aren't mass produced


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## StanleyB1

The sensible would say that Dr. Xin has now ran out of money and is back for another Nigerian type scam. I don't know the English equivalent saying, but we Dutch have one that says ' een ezel stoot zich geen twee keer aan dezelfde steen'.


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## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StanleyB1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The sensible would say that Dr. Xin has now ran out of money and is back for another Nigerian type scam. I don't know the English equivalent saying, but we Dutch have one that says ' een ezel stoot zich geen twee keer aan dezelfde steen'._

 


 I personally dont think so but can't really blame anybody for thinking that given the last 1½ years history. Not being dutch but the dutch language being something similar to german/danish I think your saying must come to something like this (corretct me if I'm wrong) : "A donkey is likely to hit itself aginst the same stone twice"


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## StanleyB1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I personally dont think so but can't really blame anybody for thinking that given the last 1½ years history. Not being dutch but the dutch language being something similar to german/danish I think your saying must come to something like this (corretct me if I'm wrong) : "A donkey is likely to hit itself aginst the same stone twice"_

 

I found the English expression. It is ' once bitten, twice shy.'

 I remain to be convinced that this is not another scam. I have been trading with China since 1995 and in that time I have seen some extremely daring scams from a large number of manufacturers from that country. The most memorable one is when I ordered a 40 foot container of copper coax cable, only to find that they had sent me steel cables coated with a thin layer of copper. The fan was on full speed at the time.


----------



## steviebee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StanleyB1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ 
 I remain to be convinced that this is not another scam. I have been trading with China since 1995 and in that time I have seen some extremely daring scams....._

 

Eh? 
_China_? I thought Xin was based in California. 
 Or are you assuming something, due to his name? Dubious post.


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## Kabeer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StanleyB1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I remain to be convinced that this is not another scam. I have been trading with China ._

 

Im not defending Dr. Xin's behaviour, but this is the USA we are dealing with, not China.

 Edit: Stevie beat me by seconds!!! grrr


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StanleyB1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I found the English expression. It is ' once bitten, twice shy.'

 I remain to be convinced that this is not another scam. I have been trading with China since 1995 and in that time I have seen some extremely daring scams from a large number of manufacturers from that country. The most memorable one is when I ordered a 40 foot container of copper coax cable, only to find that they had sent me steel cables coated with a thin layer of copper. The fan was on full speed at the time._

 

OK, so the meaning was exactly the opposite to my translation attempt.

 I still don't think it's a scam (nor was it ever). Xin had many years of very good reputation before things went very down hill about 1½ years ago. But it is hard to know what really is the truth when Xin has never given any explanation to his disapearance neither in person to person communication nor on his web site even though many have asked him directly.


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## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *steviebee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Eh? 
China? I thought Xin was based in California. ._

 

Corvallis, Oregon.
 And that really is his address, jamato8 has visited him there about 1½-2 years ago.


----------



## steviebee

Thanks for the confirmation


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## StanleyB1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Corvallis, Oregon.
 And that really is his address, jamato8 has visited him there about 1½-2 years ago._

 

Even more worrying since the new Xin is operating his server from Canada.
 I know his old address was:
 Feng, Xin
 3399 NW Poppy Dr
 Corvallis, OR 97330
 US
 (440)540-3537 fax: 123 123 1234


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## itsborken

An internet hosting company can be located anywhere facilities exist. He could still reside in Oregon and run his business there.


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## nc8000

He still lived at that address in november last year when I last send in an amp for repair/upgrade and that was also the return address when I got it back early february


----------



## dealmaster00

Has anybody gotten an amp? I'm guessing not...


----------



## Quaddy

yes, _j_ on the 'old thread' has had their supermicro a few days ago.


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## itsborken

Over twenty days and only one person confirms receiving an amp (and not a reference to boot). The good news is at this rate he will easily complete his backlog of 3-5 outstanding amps in his three month catch-up window. There are only a few outstanding amps he owes people right?


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## rhadtheman

Hmm.. he's back, eh? I wonder if I still want the Ref and Supermicro I ordered........


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## rhythmdevils

come on Doctor! You can do it!


----------



## nsx_23

Did Xin ever make a supermini3 or supermicro3?


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## pufftissue

Didn't read the whole thread, but I'd file with the BBB if not done already. I mean, everyone who's had issues. 

 That's not how we operate in the USA, buddy. His rep is gone and he should be labeled as a scam at this point. Anyone who gives him money is a fool from this point on.


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## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did Xin ever make a supermini3 or supermicro3?_

 

Yes and several generations before that of both over the last 3-5 years.


----------



## BushGuy

There is NO scamming here! I've purchased 4 amps from Dr. Xin, and have been happy with him every time. Whatever has happened with him this past year is atypical and has to be VERY personal. His business practices, and his amps, however, have been beyond reproach. I still have 2 Xin amps, and have another on order. If it comes........it comes. No worries here.


----------



## mrarroyo

It is a pity that things are where they are. I have enjoyed various of Dr. Xin's amps from a Supermacro III Version 6 to a Reference and I love the sound of his products.

 However, although we can speculate of what has been happening over the last +/-15 months the fact is that many customers have not received the products they ordered. If they used CC to pay then at least they are not out of money, but those who used PayPal are out of money since it is PayPal's policy to deduct the money right away.

 I had high hopes that w/ Dr. Xin's post early last month that things were going to turn around and amps would start shipping. Yes a couple have been shipped but there are many still waiting. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Nonetheless I am still optimistic that Dr. Xin will start doing the right thing and the amps will be shipped. How soon, remains to be seen.


----------



## itsborken

.


----------



## Quaddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *itsborken* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_._

 

x2


----------



## rhythmdevils

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *itsborken* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_._

 

x3


----------



## JarodL1

I was done with him before, but for him to come back and issue a fake apology and make more empty promises of amps shipping out, is on the verge of being criminal. I don't care if he holds $2 dollars of customer's money. His post a month ago was misleading, and probably prompted more people to send him orders. 

 It's funny, but he only made that post after moderators here got serious about pursuing legal action against him. Don't give me that BS about his personal issues, spam has been disappearing from his site for the last 18 months so it is obvious someone has been watching it. 

 For anyone who has sent him money via paypal and can't get a response, I would strongly encourage you to contact the local police. There is no reason this guy should continue to walk away with no consequences.


----------



## tk3

He has been sending refunds actually.
 Me and at least one other guy got their refund.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JarodL1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For anyone who has sent him money via paypal and can't get a response, I would strongly encourage you to contact the local police. There is no reason this guy should continue to walk away with no consequences._


----------



## itsborken

Who's the other lucky winner of 'a couple'? I only heard one--is it a Reference order? 

 By the way and speaking hypothetically...

 If the 'couple' you mention happens to be the latest prototype sent to you or John I'd keep that under your hats. Xin would earn more deserved scorn for ignoring customers in queue to comp his favorites and ramp up the hype again. If he did I'd personally send it back with a thanks but no thanks note rather than post on how great the 8/2008 version is and brand oneself forever as a 'shill'. Yeah, I wouldn't review *anything* of his until Xin's fulfilled the majority of that backlog in the purported three months.


----------



## nickknutson

I don't understand why the people, that have their money held hostage by Xin, haven't contacted his local police department yet? If I were you, I would have done that months ago. The cops will pay him a visit and rattle his cage, maybe that will provoke Xin into action...whether it be issuing refunds, or shipping amps.
 Stop complaining, and DO SOMETHING!


----------



## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nickknutson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Stop complaining, and DO SOMETHING!_

 

I suspect the people who wanted their refunds have done so already.


----------

