# Speaker upgrade recommendation for FL and FR surround components.



## rvcjew

Hi all, so i'm looking for some better FL and FR speakers for my 7.1 setup. First let me explain my setup as its kind of odd but great for the space and what I had lying around to build it. 
  
 First for 2.1 Music: Source files are mostly FLAC.
  
 PC with Jriver MC 19 output WASAPI from a Xonar Essence STX> STR-DH520>Athena AS-B1 with LFE to a Dayton Sub1200.
  
 7.1 is done with: HDMI out from GTX 780>Sony STR-DH520>Athena AS-B1 with LFE to a Dayton Sub1200, satellites are comprised of logitech x-540 surrounds and a z506 center.
  
 I tried the Pioneers SP-BS22-LR at first for a upgrade for the AS-B1 and I found them very lacking not enough fullness for me and they did not pair well with any movie I threw at them for DTS. They are smaller than the AS-B1's though so i'm not to surprised about that part (they did have better sound reproduction but to much bass in everything I tried and not very loud without distortion).
  
  
 So my budget at the moment is $300 but I can go up if the need arises. I have looked into the Klipsch R-15M's they are sold locally at our bestbuy but it seems they are the only people who carry them and i'm wondering if they are a sku re-brand of another Klipsch reference model. They say they peak at 430W though and I don't think my current amp can handle that at only around 110W per channel. 
  
 Any recommendations are appreciated
  
 rvcjew


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## cel4145

The Athena AS-B1 had a pretty good reputation in their day. I could see the Pioneers as only being a side grade where personal listening tastes would make one trump the other. However, I'm surprised that they had too much bass as that is generally not a characteristic one would associate with them. Perhaps the placement was bad for them. Or how did you have your crossover in your receiver setup and the sub's crossover setting? Perhaps there was something off there. 

Your front soundstage should timbre match. That generally means that your center channel should either be (a) the exact same vertical speaker as the left and right (optimal) or (b) the manufacturer created center channel to go with them (good, but not as good as (a)). The z506 center would seem to be a horrible choice to match with any good passive speakers given it's small size. So if HT is important to you, you really should upgrade all three. What's your plan with this? 

As far as the peak power handling of those Klipsch speakers, that's just the peak power handling. You can run those speakers on a 5 watt amp if you want. Just means that they can take more power.


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## rvcjew

cel4145 said:


> The Athena AS-B1 had a pretty good reputation in their day. I could see the Pioneers as only being a side grade where personal listening tastes would make one trump the other. However, I'm surprised that they had too much bass as that is generally not a characteristic one would associate with them. Perhaps the placement was bad for them. Or how did you have your crossover in your receiver setup and the sub's crossover setting? Perhaps there was something off there.
> 
> Your front soundstage should timbre match. That generally means that your center channel should either be (a) the exact same vertical speaker as the left and right (optimal) or (b) the manufacturer created center channel to go with them (good, but not as good as (a)). The z506 center would seem to be a horrible choice to match with any good passive speakers given it's small size. So if HT is important to you, you really should upgrade all three. What's your plan with this?
> 
> As far as the peak power handling of those Klipsch speakers, that's just the peak power handling. You can run those speakers on a 5 watt amp if you want. Just means that they can take more power.


 
 Thanks for the quick reply, the pioneers were on the same stuff the current ones are on and it is bad to be honest, basically boxes on top of a folding table lol. I listen to music more than HT so it is the higher priority. the klipsch ones 85W Continuous/340W Peak so I might try them out when I return the pioneers today. It seems I want the fullness (volume) of a bigger woofer if that makes sense. I'm not sure how to explain it, also the pioneers took more power from my receiver to get the same volume as the AS's. the AS's are normally set to small on the map and set to 60Hz crossover as that is what specs I could find for them. The pioneers were same or at 50Hz I even tried Large for them and lowering the bass but yeah I don't have a lot of room for placement and ill attach a pic showing my layout and what space is available. Oh also yes the center is crap but fits my space.
  
 Pic is really old, but same desk and room so it works.


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## cel4145

Glad to help. And yes. Makes sense. I like my 6" drivers with my desktop speakers 

And yes. The Pioneers are not very sensitive speakers. They need more power to reach the same volume compared to many others. If you still have them, try them with an 80hz crossover. See how their frequency response is a touch peaky between 70hz to 80hz (black trace in the first graph)? Could be that's what you are hearing, and an 80hz crossover would help to calm that down a little. 

Definitely spend some time with the Klipsch. Many people find (or come to find eventually) that the horns can be rather fatiguing in an HT setup. And then nearfield like you have them, this problem can be compounded. Also, because they have a fairly aggressive treble signature, they tend to sound good when you compare them directly to another speaker, but another speaker might actually be better once your ears adjust back to it. Think of it as having spicy Mexican food immediately followed by more subtle French food in the same meal. Because the spicy food is so strong in flavor, you can't appreciate the more subtle flavor.


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## cel4145

Oh, and a suggestion. I use books instead of boxes for my speaker stands. Works really well


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## rvcjew

Yeah in the store the klipsch sounded way better than the pioneers and polks, they were way warmer( it also seemed like they purposely put them on a better amp too) I do think the pioneers sound better in the reproduction department but still don't fill the room the way I want. I can afford to get both so I think ill go get the Klipsch and try them out for a day and see. I have M50's for headphones so i'm used to slightly harsh treble/highs I would say. Also Ill break out some books to try.


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## cel4145

I just suggested the books because they seem more stable boxes. I also think that they might do a better job at preventing any cabinet resonance transfer because of their thickness. 

Also, check out over at the AVS speaker forum for speaker recommendations. There are a lot of speaker enthusiasts who know all the current best values in your budget range.


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## rvcjew

cel4145 said:


> I just suggested the books because they seem more stable boxes. I also think that they might do a better job at preventing any cabinet resonance transfer because of their thickness.
> 
> Also, check out over at the AVS speaker forum for speaker recommendations. There are a lot of speaker enthusiasts who know all the current best values in your budget range.


 
 lol all the threads i'm looking at say go for the references and yeah i'll do books as in that pic they are not as high as they are now, they are about 6 inches higher now using pc game cases above those boxes real bad reverb. cant believe i didn't think of books.


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## cel4145

rvcjew said:


> lol all the threads i'm looking at say go for the references and yeah i'll do books as in that pic they are not as high as they are now, they are about 6 inches higher now using pc game cases above those boxes real bad reverb. cant believe i didn't think of books.




I have a lot of books in my house filling up the shelves. So it was great way to store some books, too. LOL


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## rvcjew

So far the R-15M's are freaking amazing. I'm really testing them will know more tomorrow.


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