# HD650 upgraded cable...which one?



## Golden Monkey

Narrowing this down to three distinct flavors, and looking for a recommendation. Prices listed with any options, and assuming a 10' cable. Choices:

*A Pure Sound V3*: 4-conductor sliver plated copper braid. Added 1/4" Furutech plug and Cardas connectors. $295 

*Moon Audio Silver Dragon V2*: 4-conductor pure silver braid. Cardas GRSQ Rhodium/Silver plated stereo 1/4". $250

*Cardas HD650*: 4-conductor pure copper, Litz braid. Cardas GRSQ Rhodium/Silver plated stereo 1/4". $185

 Zu Mobius? A bit pricey, but maybe...

 Right now, I'm leaning towards the APS V3, being that it's sort of a "best of both worlds" with the silver/copper combo, but it's also the prieceyist (excluding th Zu). Any impressions, comparing these cables to each other, or against the stock cable (if you only have familiarity with one of the above)? What do you like about your choice, and where does your particular cable lack (ie: what does it do that you DON'T like)? Thanks for helping me mak an informed decision, folks!


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## Kees

Cardas is better for HD600 than HD650.
 The rest is a matter of taste. If I remember correctly the Silver Dragon is a little bit softer sounding than the APS. Equinox is considered to be good too.


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## HeadphoneAddict

I would pick the APS cable - almost all my full size cans get the APS eventually. All gains and nothing to lose.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f21/re...cables-301979/


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## pataburd

If you can find the RAL/Senn cable, grab it. NOTHING wakes up the HD5/6xx like the Paradise Cryo-silver!!


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## rapzoo

I have tried the Cardas, Equinox and Silver Dragon v2 on my 650s. The Silver Dragon is definitely my favorite. It is fast with great, natural sounding detail yet very smooth. The Cardas was an improvement over the stock cable but nothing special. The Equinox was impressive with its overall balance, however, it seemed to have a definite glare in the upper mids that really detracted from both male and female vocals.

 I am planning on comparing the RAL silver cable to the Silver Dragon this weekend.


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## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rapzoo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have tried the Cardas, Equinox and Silver Dragon v2 on my 650s. The Silver Dragon is definitely my favorite. It is fast with great, natural sounding detail yet very smooth. The Cardas was an improvement over the stock cable but nothing special. The Equinox was impressive with its overall balance, however, it seemed to have a definite glare in the upper mids that really detracted from both male and female vocals.

 I am planning on comparing the RAL silver cable to the Silver Dragon this weekend._

 

Interesting. I'd love to hear about it.
 The RAL is my favorite at the moment, but it has been more than a year ago that I heard the Silver Dragon.


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## fault151

I prefer the Cardas


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## drarthurwells

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kees* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cardas is better for HD600 than HD650.
 The rest is a matter of taste. If I remember correctly the Silver Dragon is a little bit softer sounding than the APS. Equinox is considered to be good too._

 

Cardas is perfect with the HD600/580 in my high resolution HP set-up.


 Cardas emphasizes the tone coloration of the HD650 in my system - may be a real good combo in lean tone and moderate resolution systems though.


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## pataburd

I've owned both the Moon SDV2 and RAL cryo-Silver recabled K701, and preferred the RAL.


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## ronnielee54

I bought a pair of HD580's that came with one of Alex's cables (APS). The man does excellent work. A true craftsman. It is a definite improvement over the stock cable.


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## jujulio

i'have heard about zu mobius cable but they're quite expensive... Mobius&#8482 Sennheiser headphone cable ZuAudio - Phone (800) 516-8925


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## pataburd

The RAL is by-far-and-away the best HD5/6xx cable, IMHO. They easily bettered the Cardas and Headphile BlackMaxx V2 for me. Others have reported the RAL's superiority over the likes of Moon, Equinoxe and Zu Mobius. The RAL is clean, dynamic, extended and detailed, really waking up the HD650 like nothing else I've tried or heard reported elsewhere.


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## BayouSlide

I'm very happy with my Soloz Cardas cable upgrade...great value and significant improvements. Couldn't be happier with my HD650s now in my system.


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## Bizzel

A vote for the APS v3 here. I didn't notice a change in detail but the soundstage, bass tightness and treble extension are much improved. Not cheap but worth it because it really does complete the 650s.


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## jp11801

another nod for the APS v3 great cable the SAA would also be another solid choice. While I understand the RAL love didn't they have unresolved customer issues or am I thinking of someone else?


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## Dominat0r

im really enjoying the Enigma Audio Oracle cable....can see my review on it in this forum.


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## Ryman

I ordered and pre-paid for RAL (Revelation Audio Labs, Inc./Brad Vojtech) CryoSilver 3 meter Sennheiser cable and 3 meter extension cable (stereo-stereo plugs) on March 22, 2007, and I still have not received the cables! I would really like it if Brad would mail me my cables soon. I am losing faith quickly, however, and I feel a bit neglected. I will post here on Head-Fi if and when I receive the cables.


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## kool bubba ice

Easy choice. APS. I must have spent over a grand on recabling my headphones.. Infact I feel my headphones are losing out if I don't get them recabled by Alex.. I want all my headphones to get recabled by ASP.. Alex is the only person I want touching my headphones.


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## Andrew_WOT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jujulio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i'have heard about zu mobius cable but they're quite expensive... Mobius™ Sennheiser headphone cable ZuAudio - Phone (800) 516-8925_

 

Terrific cable, but looks like price jumped up significantly recently. Still worth to consider, you may work out a deal with Zu if contact them or just grab used one from FS section.


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## Mooch2000

Are they any upgrades using OCC conductors?


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## Golden Monkey

Hmm...not that I've seen. WHat's the deal with OCC? It's a single long grain copper molecule?


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## riceboy

I've owned the Cardas, Silver Dragon V2, Blue Dragon and now the Zu Mobius.

 Hands down from the 4 the Zu Mobius cable is incredible. I've been hearing detail and texture in my 10 albums I use all the time with any new amp, source, or can I get in to test them out. Let me tell you that it was like a night and day difference in sound. I didn't think a cable would make such a difference. I didn't even have to close my eyes and concentrate on the music to pick out the improvements or detail. I was working on my computer and heard multiple things in the track that I never heard before. Also, the low end became really tight and had some punch to it. I've been so very happy with it. With my Dragon amp from Singlepower it is really driving my HD650s properly and with the cable upgrade it is phenomenal. Of course with everything YMMV, but for me I couldn't be happier.


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## dan_can

Owned RAL and Black Dragon, my vote is for RAL.


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## PPkiller

looks like APS v3, Zu and RAL are pretty good... any 1 done a comparison between APS vs Zu or APS vs RAL?


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## tubaman

For HD650, I still like the Equinox best, it doesn't change the character of HD650 but embellish it, making everything better/bloom, preserving the beautiful smoothness of HD650. It's like changing from a Target black suit to a Georgia Armani black suit. Still a black suit, but much better. The Equinox is my favorite and basis for comparison. 

 The silver Dragon (SD) was a bit dry, and the treble was brighter, but very detailed. 

 I feel the RAL and SD cable changes the HD650 to the extent that HD650 is no longer HD650, for good or bad. For the same money/effect, I might just get DT-880, 990, K701, or a Grado. I strongly recommend against buying an RAL, though, as I am considering filing a small claims suit against RAL after unsuccessful attempt to obtain refund or the cable that I paid for 3 months ago, after BV promised a specific time to deliver but failed to AND stopped responding to emails, and phone lines no longer work. 

 The Cardas is well extended clearly better than stock cable (improvement worth the price). It's more exciting/lively than Equinox but not as smooth overall. Doesn't change the HD650 as much as the RAL or SD, but not as smooth as Equinox. Overall build quality is also the last place of all cable mentioned in this post (IMO), though this does not necessarily affect durability.


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## Jerrycan

Nice little review tubaman, i'm expecting my Equinox tomorrow. 
 Can't wait to listen to them.


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## gooky

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tubaman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For HD650, I still like the Equinox best, it doesn't change the character of HD650 but embellish it, making everything better/bloom, preserving the beautiful smoothness of HD650._

 

Thanks for bringing this up, when I finally do upgrade my HD650, I don't want to purchase a cable that will change the character a lot. Can APS v3 owners please describe how it affects the sound of the HD650s too? I'm interested in them.
 And thanks to everyone who shared their experiences, I can't imagine trying each one to see which I would like best.


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## HeadphoneAddict

I did a review of the APS V3 on my HD600 if that helps: REVIEW: APureSound V3 Silver Cable with Copper Core for Sennheiser vs stock HD600 & HD650 cables - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio


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## Dominat0r

wow no love for Enigma Audio....im in love with the cable to honest with you. Sounds nice and airy, bass is tight and controlled. Kinda what the Zu DOESNT sound like =)


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## pataburd

I preferred the RAL Paradise cable. In terms of design approach, I think Brad's aim was to make a pure path with the wire and to minimize colorations (i.e. due to the cable itself). 

 It raises the question: with the stock cable, am I listening to the cable or the headphones? One's preference for an after-market cable that "embellishes" the way the HD650 sound with their stock cable may simply mean that the listener prefers the sound of the stock cable to begin with. IMHE, the RAL brought out the true potential of the HD650 (a headphone I've owned on three distinct occasions)--whose "stock sound" I admittedly did not, do not and probably never will like.

 But then again, I'm firmly entrenched in the AKG camp, now. The only Sennheiser I'd reconsider would be the HD600. The HD650, to me, were the mass-market-driven design equivalent to the DT880/2005, another headphone that I think was clearly bettered by its predecessor.


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## gooky

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did a review of the APS V3 on my HD600 if that helps:_

 

Thanks for the link, your review is very informative. Would I be too forward to say that you think the APS also suites the character of the HD-650 very well too? The review is very well detailed, but I guess I'm not clear on what you mean when you say it sounds natural. I'm no expert, but what I like about the HD-650 versus the Grado SR-225 that I own, is that the HD-650 is smooth with slower music genres like country music. A song that I like to compare the HD-650 and the SR-225 with is "Carried Away," by George Strait. With the Grado, everything sounds sharper, but you lose that sensation of flowing along, if that makes any sense. Do you think instruments like the steel guitar will sound good with the APS V3? I find it all very complicated. In any case, I appreciate the help trying to get a feel for the APS V3, maybe I won't know for sure unless I purchase it.


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## Jerrycan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tubaman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For HD650, I still like the Equinox best, it doesn't change the character of HD650 but embellish it, making everything better/bloom, preserving the beautiful smoothness of HD650. It's like changing from a Target black suit to a Georgia Armani black suit. Still a black suit, but much better. The Equinox is my favorite and basis for comparison._

 

I second that.
 After a 100 hours break-in period (it really needs that time), everthing falls into place. It's still the HD650 but more open en detailed to all sides. Very pleasant listening without getting tired.


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gooky* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the link, your review is very informative. Would I be too forward to say that you think the APS also suites the character of the HD-650 very well too? The review is very well detailed, but I guess I'm not clear on what you mean when you say it sounds natural. I'm no expert, but what I like about the HD-650 versus the Grado SR-225 that I own, is that the HD-650 is smooth with slower music genres like country music. A song that I like to compare the HD-650 and the SR-225 with is "Carried Away," by George Strait. With the Grado, everything sounds sharper, but you lose that sensation of flowing along, if that makes any sense. Do you think instruments like the steel guitar will sound good with the APS V3? I find it all very complicated. In any case, I appreciate the help trying to get a feel for the APS V3, maybe I won't know for sure unless I purchase it._

 

When I say "natural" I mean transparent and lifelike.

 I think the APS cable is suitable for just about every headphone I have. Specifically it brings out the best of what the headphone has to offer without taking anything away. I have APS cable on my RS-1, RS-2, HF-1, HD600, Edition 9, Denon D2000 - a total of 8 if you consider that I have three for the HD600 (a 4 foot with 1/8" plug, a 6 foot with Furutech 1/4" and super nylon sleeve, and a 8 foot balanced cable).

 I like the HD600 better than the HD650, so I sold the HD650 that I picked up from Blutarsky and kept my HD600 - but I can say that I liked the 650 with the APS V3 cable more than I did with their stock cable. Using the 650 balanced out of my Apogee mini-DAC with the APS V3 XLR plug cable almost convinced me to keep them, until I used the HD600 with the same setup and cable and liked it more. I just felt the HD600 were more neutral and balanced, and mine have over a 1,000 hours on them and have settled down nicely.

 Remember that there are many good cables out there to choose from, and nobody can say that one is the BEST of all - however, a person can say I liked this one better than that one.


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## pataburd

The APS V2 added a bit of warmth to the K501. If the V3 is similar, I personally would not prefer it for the HD600 or--especially not--the HD650, which have inherent warmth with their stock cables. 

 Getting back to the K501, though, I think the APS V3 might be the best option. (I am in the process of ordering the V3 for my K501.)

 The RAL cable (v. Cardas, v. Headphile BlackMax and v. stock) was by-far-and-away my favorite after market cable for the HD6X0.


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The APS V2 added a bit of warmth to the K501. If the V3 is similar, I personally would not prefer it for the HD600 or--especially not--the HD650, which have inherent warmth with their stock cables. 

 Getting back to the K501, though, I think the APS V3 might be the best option. (I am in the process of ordering the V3 for my K501.)

 The RAL cable (v. Cardas, v. Headphile BlackMax and v. stock) was by-far-and-away my favorite after market cable for the HD6X0._

 

Trust me, your experience with V2 cable on K501 does not translate to the HD600/650 and the V3 cable.


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## penger

I have both the SAA and Moon-Audio Black Dragon, and I'm liking the SAA more.


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## pataburd

HPA,

 The analogy was not meant to be translatable in the sense that, obviously, the K501 and HD6X0 have clearly different stock sounds. My point was merely that the V2's effect on the K501 IMHE (and which I thought was a sonic boon for the AKG), was apparently "additive" in a manner I would not want it to be--speculatively--on the HD6X0. 

 What I take away from your comment is that the V3 is very different from the V2, in that were I to a/b the APS V2/K501 and the APS V3/K501, then the latter APS cable would not impart a perceptible "warmth" to the K501 as does, apparently, the former (IMHE).

 : )

 PAB


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## DarkAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *riceboy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've owned the Cardas, Silver Dragon V2, Blue Dragon and now the Zu Mobius.

 Hands down from the 4 the Zu Mobius cable is incredible. I've been hearing detail and texture in my 10 albums I use all the time with any new amp, source, or can I get in to test them out. Let me tell you that it was like a night and day difference in sound. I didn't think a cable would make such a difference. I didn't even have to close my eyes and concentrate on the music to pick out the improvements or detail. I was working on my computer and heard multiple things in the track that I never heard before. Also, the low end became really tight and had some punch to it. I've been so very happy with it. With my Dragon amp from Singlepower it is really driving my HD650s properly and with the cable upgrade it is phenomenal. Of course with everything YMMV, but for me I couldn't be happier._

 

*RB*
 Do you have the newest version of Zu Mobius?
 Zu has quietly done an upgrade to original Mobius, not even mentioned on thier website which still shows photo of original Mobius. The new Mobius is thinner, lighter and more flexible than original Mobius much more comfortable to wear. 

 I traded in my old Mobius for the new one just 1 month ago so can't do a direct comparo, but I am very pleased with new version and have no 2nd thoughts about whether new version is better, has a more refined and natural presentation while significantly removing the Senn 650 "veil" I love it!

 This will give you some idea of what Zu has been up to with new model:
New Zu Mobius

 Not sure why thier website makes no mention of these great changes?


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## nghows

just got my RAL cable. Straight out of the bag it sounds great. Veils removed blah blah blah. Staging improved. Brighter without being bright if that makes sense. Stock cable dull, dark and closed in by comparison.
 Looking forward to hearing it once it settles down.


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## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nghows* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just got my RAL cable. Straight out of the bag it sounds great. Veils removed blah blah blah. Staging improved. Brighter without being bright if that makes sense. Stock cable dull, dark and closed in by comparison.
 Looking forward to hearing it once it settles down._

 

Congratulations! The RAL is a great re-cable for the HD650, IMHE. Keep us posted! : )


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## PPkiller

wow... how long did you wait for your cable?


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## Audio-Omega

So there is no clear winner as to which cable is the best for HD650. Do you guys prefer copper, silver or both in a cable ?


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Audio-Omega* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So there is no clear winner as to which cable is the best for HD650. Do you guys prefer copper, silver or both in a cable ?_

 

I don't know that I can pick silver/copper/both. 

 I have enjoyed tremendously a *Jenna Labs Cryo* from ALO, so you'd think copper. But then I liked the *Silver Dragon* very much too (when I tried Blutarsky's), so you'd think silver. But, my *APureSound V3* cable is fantastic too (every bit as good), and that is both silver and copper. I would say they were all very impressively transparent, detailed and extended. 

 Less impressive were the Black Dragon and Vampire Wire, although they were still an upgrade to the stock HD600/650 cable when I heard them, they were not as transparent.


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## Tbln

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nghows* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just got my RAL cable. Straight out of the bag it sounds great. Veils removed blah blah blah. Staging improved. Brighter without being bright if that makes sense. Stock cable dull, dark and closed in by comparison.
 Looking forward to hearing it once it settles down._

 

Great to see it finally came through!

 The HD650/RAL combination ranks right up there with the HD600/Equinox for my musical preferences.

 Next in line would be the HD650/Equinox and HD600/Cardas.


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## Audio-Omega

How flexible is APureSound v3 ?


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## mojolo

there are so many different opinions about so many cables. is one aftermarket cable necessarily "better" than another or even "better" than the stock cable?

 from the descriptions of a cable being warm or bright or having less slam or prat it seems that all they are doing is altering the sound of the HD650. if this is the case, it would seem that they are not correcting any "true deficiencies" of the stock cable.

 is this the basic take on cable upgrades?


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## Know Talent

I ran both the SAA Equinox and the RAL on my HD600s and could not distinguish a significant sonic difference between the two but kept the RAL because of better comfort and I percieved the RAL to be of a higher build quality especially in the splits going to each can.

 over the stock HD cable I'd say both these cables either rolled off the bass or elevated the mids ever so slightly to give the impression of a flatter FQ response.

 Personally, I've heard the 650's cord is much improved over the 600 so I doubt you're buying much sonic improvement vs. audio jewelry? others may disagree


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## mojolo

than you for your reasonable response.

 i am glad you did not take my post the wrong way, and hope others will not as well.

 i was seriously in the market for an upgraded cable, but based on the reviews I was reading, was becoming confused about the benefits vs. trade offs of the aftermarket cables available. from your post, it would seem that they may be of benefit if one is not happy with the stock sound or would like to tailor it more to their preferences.


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## Know Talent

When the cable cost more than the cans there's a problem...


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## Golden Monkey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Know Talent* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When the cable cost more than the cans there's a problem..._

 

Cable costs piss me off more than anything Fi-related, especially IC's...


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Audio-Omega* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How flexible is APureSound v3 ?_

 

Flexible enough if you do the super nylon sleeve, while techflex is relatively stiff. However, it will never be as floppy or bendy as Headphile cable.


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## PPkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Golden Monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cable costs piss me off more than anything Fi-related, especially IC's..._

 

how about diy 1 your self? 

 i done 1 myself.. although it may not compete against brands like aps or etc.. but it did imrpove the treble as compared to the stock.. 

 now i'm getting curious about how 600 sound as compared to 650..


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## Golden Monkey

I'm thinking of going the DIY route, but not my own job, lol...There's a lot of good DIY'ers here that will do quality work. Like, I've had quotes for $145 for a 10' Senn cable, Neutrik plug on silver plate copper wire with Cardas 650 plugs. FOr IC's the same guy does 2 pairs of rca cables with the neutrik plugs, 2 feet long, 24 gauge teflon-insulated silver-plated copper wires, multifilament nylon sleeving, silver solder: $60 shipping and paypal fee included. Beats the pants off of any brand name pricing!


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## barqy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PPkiller* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how about diy 1 your self? _

 

Well,

 I have an old hd650 cable that i'll butcher when i have some free time.

 I was going to recable with cardas wire but apparently the benefits of cardas are far greater in the hd600s than the hd650s.

 I'll use some silver on coppe wire instead 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 will post results later.


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## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *barqy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well,

 I have an old hd650 cable that i'll butcher when i have some free time.

 I was going to recable with cardas wire but apparently the benefits of cardas are far greater in the hd600s than the hd650s.

 I'll use some silver on coppe wire instead 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 will post results later._

 


 I had a hd600 and also the cardas replacement cable and it was lovely on the hd600. Since the hd650 is a different headphone after all, i can see why the cardas cable won't benefit as much as the hd600 does.


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## vcoheda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Know Talent* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When the cable cost more than the cans there's a problem..._

 

buy an R10. then you won't have that problem.


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## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Know Talent* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When the cable cost more than the cans there's a problem..._

 

Why?
 It could mean the cans are dead cheap.....


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## M3NTAL

I just did a DIY cable last night. 10' of Canare Star Quad standard size with nylon multi on the main and heat shrink provided by moon-audio. Canare connectors were used - simple in theory to use, but hard to get an iron in there w/o touching anything plastic. Heat shrink covers it up anyways.

 I did not fill the cavity with anything - since it is heat shrunk sealed from the environment I am not worried.

 My HD600 sounds absolutely wonderful with it and the HD650 seems a touch more detailed and extended.

 I would like to hear a Zu cable to compare my doings against


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## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mojolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_than you for your reasonable response.

 i am glad you did not take my post the wrong way, and hope others will not as well.

 i was seriously in the market for an upgraded cable, but based on the reviews I was reading, was becoming confused about the benefits vs. trade offs of the aftermarket cables available. from your post, it would seem that they may be of benefit if one is not happy with the stock sound or would like to tailor it more to their preferences._

 

I am not looking back to stock cable ever after having both Cardas and Zu V1. I swith between Cardas and Zu depend on the type of music. I just cut off the connectors (keep them for new cable) on the stock cable, and throw them in the trash


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## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Know Talent* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When the cable cost more than the cans there's a problem..._

 

Yo, my cable for the KSC35 costs three times more than the can. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Golden Monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cable costs piss me off more than anything Fi-related, especially IC's..._

 

You'll even piss more and more when you know the cost of material and how to make it yourself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's very funny that some cables which look the same as other, but got some eye-catching heatshrink with brand name on there cost more $$$$. It may look cooler, but I don't think I'll pay more $$$ for just a heatshrink


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## stvn758

Are there any budget cable upgrades - better than the stock but not the kind of prices mentioned here. 

 If I snagged one of those and lost the sound in one ear like the last several stock jobs I had with my 600's I'd cry.


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## Golden Monkey

You can always get an HD650 replacement cable for your 600's for $25. It's a decent cable, actually...one of the few stock ones tht don't warrant immediate replacement.
Sennheiser HD650 Replacement Cable @ HeadRoom - Right Between Your Ears


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## keanej6

my zu cable converted me from a cable skeptic to a firm believer.


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## olblueyez

Once and for all, Equinox or V3 or Silver Dragon? I want a tighter bass and less veil and smooooth highs. 650s of course.


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## screwdriver

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *olblueyez* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Once and for all, Equinox or V3 or Silver Dragon? I want a tighter bass and less veil and smooooth highs. 650s of course._

 

its like buying blind . if you have the $$$ - go buy 3 and sell the ones you dont like .
 or ask for people to lend you cables and see which ones you prefer.


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## PFKMan23

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *olblueyez* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Once and for all, Equinox or V3 or Silver Dragon? I want a tighter bass and less veil and smooooth highs. 650s of course._

 

What's the rest of your rig?


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## olblueyez

Marantz DV7001 feeding a CI VHP 2

 I was all set to go on the V3 but I read somewhere it brings the midrange forward. Maybe im just over reacting. Anything should be better than the stock cord and I figure 300 bucks is my limit for a 6-9 foot cord.


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## M3NTAL

I will be getting an equinox here in a week probably, I will let you know what I think about it if you haven't already purchased something already.


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## wavoman

Here's an interesting snip from the moon-audio (Drew, Silver Dragon) web site, discussing Senn cable upgrades:

_The pin connectors are soldered to the conductors and then molded to the cable. The splicing method used by other cable companies using a stock Sennheiser cable's connectors is a poor method. And defeats the purpose of replacing the cable. That method requires you to once more send the signal through the poor quality conductors in the stock Sennheiser cable as well as through one more solder joint. Moon Audio, Cardas and Zu are the only three cable companies I am aware of that use a preferred method of headphone connection method_

 BTW Drew did a great job modding my Ultrasone's with Silver Dragon (and split-cables). For my Senn 600's I just bought the Zu from a Head-Fi'er. I'll probably get a Silver Dragon too. Since you change these yourself, why limit to one? This is what we work hard for every day -- to spend gobs of money on HP stuff! And, as another poster said, you can always sell here the cables you no longer want.


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## penger

I love my Equinox cable. Regarding the connectors, I spoke with the guys over at SAA, and James told me that their connectors are custom made by Sennheiser themselves and are not actually the stock ones just chopped off. He also said they're better than the Cardas rhodium ones. Whether you believe it or not is up to you.


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## olblueyez

This mean Apuresound has fix this problem as well?

APureSound - Where The Music Is Always Pure - APS Audio LLC.

 The Already Best Sennheiser Cable Got Even Better - March 26, 2008
 APureSound is proud to announce an upgrade to the Sennheiser HD series cables. All orders as of March 20th
 will now use the Cardas Sennheiser connectors which features Rhodium plated pins for the ultimate listening
 experience. We have worked very hard to redesign our cable around this connector and now we will be using it
 as the standard connector on all of our Sennheiser HD series based cables. For any questions please email us.






 Sure it inst 5 companies?


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## wavoman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *olblueyez* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This mean Apuresound has fix this problem as well?...Sure it isn't 5 companies?_

 

I think you and *penger* have it correct. And we leaned something! Yes it would now seem all 5 companies do it the "right" way. Apuresound says it exactly in the material you qoute, and the Stefan (Equinox) guys said the right words too.

 Ah, no budget will support all 5. In different applications I use cables from 3 of them ... all great. I already bought the Zu, so that's one. I'm still leaning Silver Dragon for #2, but I do have a (different application) Equinox cable that's terrific, so hmmm.

 To the OP: good luck!


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## Golden Monkey

Thanks wavoman...still in the market, either DIY or one of the big guns. For me, it's either going to be the APS V3 or Moon Silver Dragon, it's just a matter of budgeting and getting the summer concerts out of the way...


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## olblueyez

Im thinking of just going with the Equinox because its copper and I dont want to make my 650 brighter or change the sound, I just want better resolution.


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## dan_can

Amp first, cable second. Don't waste money on cables if you don't have proper amp to drive HD650. I personally prefer pure copper to silver on HD650. HD650 simply does not sound veiled (at least to me) at all when driven properly. By the way, I've got old version of HD650 if it matters at all.


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## olblueyez

I have a Chanel Islands Amp and Power Supply, it seems to drive the 650 very well.


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## Ross

I also prefer copper cables and do not like the brightness or metallic quality of silver cables. However, the APS cable is the only copper/silver hybrid cable I've heard which manages to avoid the problems with silver, and has the warmth of copper cables with the detail of silver. I think it is a lot better than the Equinox (although that is still a good cable) and have recently sold my Equinox.


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## olblueyez

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/650...9/#post4522907


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## Andrew_WOT

APS and Zu, both use silver/copper hybrid. Pure copper does not work that well with HD650 (stock is copper btw), take Cardas for instance, it's much more appreciated with HD600 due to its brighter nature. 
 You want to lift some veil from HD650, go for Zu or APS.


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## MoAv

If we're on the subject, can someone please give his appreciation for his HD600 cable replacement ?
 I'm buying one to go with the iBasso D1.
 BTW I really didn't like the iBasso with my HD595/CARDAS


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## Elk

Do any manufacturers make copper cables using PCOCC copper? I generally prefer the sound of the copper cables to the sound to the silver cables I auditioned at our last regional meet. Still looking to replace stock 650 cable with a 6ft upgraded cable. I think just shortening the cable may be an improvement. I'm driving the 650's with a wooaudio6.


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MoAv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If we're on the subject, can someone please give his appreciation for his HD600 cable replacement ?
 I'm buying one to go with the iBasso D1.
 BTW I really didn't like the iBasso with my HD595/CARDAS_

 

Did you see this? HD650 upgraded cable...which one? - Page 3 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f21/hd...nd#post4352211

 PS: a lot of my listening that convinced me to upgrade cables, prior to buying the Dark voice amp in the review, was done with my iBasso D1 with upgraded opamps.


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## syfjhz22

I strongly suggest to try Zu cable. It's a great one.


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## MoAv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you see this? HD650 upgraded cable...which one? - Page 3 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

HD650 upgraded cable...which one? - Page 5 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

 PS: a lot of my listening that convinced me to upgrade cables, prior to buying the Dark voice amp in the review, was done with my iBasso D1 with upgraded opamps._

 

What other upgrades have you tried ?
 Would you recommend to upgrade my current CARDAS to fit the 600 ?


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MoAv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What other upgrades have you tried ?_

 

Other than the APureSound V3 cable? *I have not had all the cables on hand at the same time, so I can't compare all of them directly, only some of them.*

 The ALO Audio 18g Jenna Labs Cryo was excellent with the HD600 and left nothing to be desired except for wishing for a lower price tag, so I couldn't afford to buy the demo cable, although I would have if I could have afforded it. It was very clear, detailed and transparent, while at the same time giving more warmth and body (or solidity) to the instruments due to a boost in the bass over stock HD600/650 cables. I found no faults with this cable, which should be the case for $385. The flexibility was good, but I think a 22g Jenna Labs Cryo is easier to handle than 18g.

 The ALO Audio Vampire wire cable was also an upgrade to the stock HD600 and HD650 cable, but it could not approach the Jenna Labs cryo cable in transparency when I was able to briefly compare the Jenna Labs vs Vampire with my HD600. A longer comparison with the two cables on two pair of HFI-780 confirmed my earlier findings, with the Jenna Labs Cryo from ALO Audio being superior.

 The Moon Audio Silver Dragon was quite nice in detail and transparency, and is probably 95% of the APS cable, with just the ever so slightest decrease in warmth in the mids and bass that took me a while to hear. A definite upgrade to the stock HD600 and HD650 cable on the HD600, and very close to the APS cable. I still prefer the APS V3 cable (I have three APS V3 cables for my HD600 -> 4 foot 1/8" plug, 6 foot 1/4" plug, 8 foot balanced).

 My first upgrade cable was the cryotreated Moon Audio Black Dragon, which unfortunately was a little brighter but harsher in the highs, and did not seem to bring out the bass or warmth that I wanted. Since Senns&nonsense who sold them to me had "de-foamed" his HD600 (or 650, I forget) he found that black dragon too bright as well. I would rank this one at the bottom, but still better than the HD600 cable. In some ways I preferred the HD650 cable on my HD600 than the cryo'd black dragon, despite the increased detail, and I would switch back and forth. Then after reading all the good things about the APureSound cables I bought the my first 4 foot APS V3 cable used and compared the two directly, and the APS was superior in every way.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MoAv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would you recommend to upgrade my current CARDAS to fit the 600 ?_

 

Don't know, I have never heard the Cardas.


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## MoAv

Wow, thank you for that "HeadphoneAddict", great review of the cables.
 It is hard to pick a cable, not because of the diversity, rather then the fact that you can't hear them all, unless you buy and switch around quickly.

 I've heard the same about the Black Dragon, which is now out of my list.
 The CARDAS is still obscure, I've found some posting saying it's the best for the 600, but nothing decisive. I might give it a go, and try first to upgrade it since I don't think I can sell it for a good price. Generally it upgraded my 595, but with the D1 as an amp it lost allot of bass, and made it way too bright. I still suspect the D1 being faulty, after so many opamp rolling.


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## Tbln

Having tried the Zu Mobius v1, Cardas, RAL and Equinox cables with both HD600and HD650, my personal favourites are as such:

 HD600 : Equinox, with Cardas a close second

 HD650 : RAL, with Equinox a close second

 Some of my thoughts of these dferent cables posted earlier:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/sin...3/index12.html

 Ultimately, cables choices are usually a reflection of partnering equipment and listening preferences.


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