# Project FrankenSixFifties(tm) (w/pics)



## linuxworks

I got my sennhesier hd650 drivers in today! one day after my cable and earcushions came in.

 here's the photo trail..























 now onto the disassembly and reassembly:










 (in the pic, above, the shiny driver that is not installed is the new 650 element)





 (in that pic, again the uninstalled element is the new 650 driver)





 (the bottom trim prys off with your fingers. the bottom socket area angles up first, and then the whole thing lifts off.)










 (this is the final step in disassembly. unhinge the pivot points with your fingers - they just come straight out with a little hand-force.)





 (old 580 element fully removed)

 and then simply reverse for this side and do both parts for the other side 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 the first side took me about 15 minutes or maybe 1/2 hour. I was taking pics 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the 2nd side literally took me 2 minutes, if even that.


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## FallenAngel

Looks great. Just toss on some HD600 grills and you're done. Now it does beg to wonder, isn't it cheaper to get an HD650 than HD580 with HD650 drivers?


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## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks great. Just toss on some HD600 grills and you're done. Now it does beg to wonder, isn't it cheaper to get an HD650 than HD580 with HD650 drivers? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

my incremental cost says this way was cheaper 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 my hd580: $0.00 (I already owned it, you see)
 upgrade drivers: 2 @ $39.48
 shipping was a sawbuck 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 total: about $90

 [size=small]what's not to like??[/size]


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## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my incremental cost says this way was cheaper 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 my hd580: $0.00 (I already owned it, you see)
 upgrade drivers: 2 @ $39.48
 shipping was a sawbuck 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 total: about $90

 [size=small]what's not to like??[/size]_

 

Ah, but there is also the HD650 cable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Or... sell HD580 for $150, buy HD650 for $240


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## digger945

I like the "Franken SixFifties™" title.


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## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, but there is also the HD650 cable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Or... sell HD580 for $150, buy HD650 for $240 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

the cable was a pure treat to me but certainly not needed! it was so cheap it was hard to say no to. I would enjoy the same sound, I'm pretty sure, with even the 'old' cable. the old cable also had red for right - and I actually find that USEFUL!

 the cushions were redundant and I'll have those as spares when my original ones finally wear out. I'm still on my very old orig's though.

 I also saw no reason to not use the orig baffle. it does its job and I'm sure its as transparent as the other styles. no need to replace what already functions fine.

 I didn't want to sell anything, though. this gives me the freedom to 'go back' if I want with no loss of - well - anything 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 given that I would not sell my 580's, I had 2 choices:

 1) do the franken thing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 2) buy a whole new hd650 setup

 2 was NOT the best use of my money right now. I picked 1


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## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Or... sell HD580 for $150, buy HD650 for $240 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

where can you get 650's for that kind of money? used, you mean? I'm not sure I like the idea of used phones so much.


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## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_where can you get 650's for that kind of money? used, you mean? I'm not sure I like the idea of used phones so much._

 

Yep, I always quote used prices because everything I own is either used or built myself. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 With headphones, a good wash of the pads and headband is required (well, recommended, but I'd say required). That price is pretty average for used HD650 I think; well, I'll be selling one at that price next week. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nice job on the log though


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## linuxworks

wow, selling one next week and you're local to me, too. that's worth a LOL I think 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 still, I like the idea of having gone thru a poor man's DIY. it ALWAYS makes the music sound better (heh).


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## willne1

Pretty Cool....I have 580's. Do the modded phones sound that much better?

 William


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## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *willne1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pretty Cool....I have 580's. Do the modded phones sound that much better?_

 

not sure yet. they are said to have a different sound (bit of a dip in the midrange, I think) and I wanted to see what the hype about the 650 was all about, too.

 they don't sound THAT different from the 580. I could tell immediately if I put some sony cans on; but the 580 to the 650 is not day and night.


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## rogerlike

Hey Linuxworks, nice job and nice project title 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_they don't sound THAT different from the 580. I could tell immediately if I put some sony cans on; but the 580 to the 650 is not day and night._

 

It's my understanding that what made the HD580 Jubilee special was the use of (anti-resonant) carbon fibre for the frame and headband, and reportedly makes a big sonic difference (subsequently used in both HD600 and HD650). The step up from a standard HD580 to an HD600 is supposed to be pretty non-subtle.


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## linuxworks

thanks rogerlike 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 CF is so trendy but also kind of expensive too.

 I never got a chance to see these jubilee models. I bought my 580's from headroom.com back in 2000 or so - right around the time the dot-coms were dot-bombing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 at the time they had some special where they gave away some sennheiser handheld effects box of sorts. I am not even sure I ever hooked it up to be honest.


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## rogerlike

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_... at the time they had some special where they gave away some sennheiser handheld effects box of sorts. I am not even sure I ever hooked it up to be honest._

 

Ohh, that sounds interesting. Go get it out, use it, and report back!


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## willne1

linuxworks...how did you get these elements? I don't even see them on there web site. Any updates on the sound comparison?

 William


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## DaMnEd

You have to call them (Sennheiser).

*linuxworks*,

 Are the drivers matched? I have read Sennheiser matches the headphone drivers, but since you got them as replacement parts I have no idea if such process is done, did you enquire about this?


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## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *willne1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_linuxworks...how did you get these elements? I don't even see them on there web site. Any updates on the sound comparison?
_

 

I think I'm hearing what others have also been saying - that there is a midrange dip and the bass is a bit boomier (it works well for some music and not so well for others). there needs to be more weeks (I think) of break-in before giving a real opinion, though.

 I tend to like a more subdued midrange anyway, so these may reduce fatigue for me.

 yes, I called sennheiser and gave them the numbers on my boxes. so if you want, just copy down the exact #'s from MY boxes and call them. its that simple. no 'test' needed, no proof of '650 buyers club' or anything like that.

 just ask for 'repair and replacement parts' when calling.


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## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*linuxworks*,

 Are the drivers matched? I have read Sennheiser matches the headphone drivers, but since you got them as replacement parts I have no idea if such process is done, did you enquire about this?_

 

I honestly don't believe this, myself.

 think about this - WHAT are you going to match, exactly? 2 drivers have 2 different curves. are you going to match at 100hz, 1k, 10k? how does one 'compare' mountainous landscapes (freq response curves) and 'match'?

 I believe this to be marketing 'justification' for higher prices. I don't buy into it.

 what I do buy into is proper manufacturing tolerances where a whole batch can be considered to be inherently matched.

 I fully understand matching R's and C's and even transistor HFE's when building amps; but matching driver elements seems like 'audiophile talk' and I'm more of a science guy than that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 the 2 drivers they sent me sound 'equal enough' for my ears. not sure what else I'd need and since I'm not buying these as 'test equipment'


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## DaMnEd

Fair enough


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## linuxworks

if they did provide a matching service, I might consider paying for it as long as it wasn't overly expensive, but I'd also expect graphs of each driver to PROVE to me that they did something for the money 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 do brand new 650's come with charts? real ones that were measured from the actual drivers?

 or do people just go on faith that this is being done?

 personally, I'm often of the mind of "pics or it didn't happen" (lol) as kids today are fond of saying


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## krmathis

Nice driver transplantation.


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## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *krmathis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice driver transplantation. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

thanks. the patient lived to sing another day!


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## goober-george

Wow, HD-650 drivers are only $40? Could make a great DIY headphone project.


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## linuxworks

$40 EACH for the drivers.


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## necropimp

it's funny because the drivers for the 580s on their website are $55.75

 someone please explain how the 650 drivers can be cheaper than the 580 drivers?


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## linuxworks

are the 580 drivers a per-set price? just a guess.


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## DaMnEd

They refer to the part as "element", singular, so I think the price is for the single driver.

 It is quite possible the on-line price is not regularly updated (or many reasons), and if someone calls them, you may find the 580/600 driver is actually cheaper.


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## dclancy

Might also be the law of supply and demand on out of production products, just a thought.
 Nice mod though.


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## linuxworks

update: I called in to inquire about buying a headband and 2 grills so I would have a complete 2nd pair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 cost of the 580 headband is $50 and the 650 headband is $85. I decided to put the 650 drivers on the 650 band - so that I can tell the 2 sets apart.

 the only thing left was grills. something like $3 for the 600 grill (ea) but $40 for the 650 ones (ea) !! I didn't write down the exact prices but I quickly bought 2 of the 600 grills and so I'll have a complete full 650 but only with 600 series grills. all parts are in stock so I should have them later this week, perhaps.

 I do think I like both, the 580 and the 650 'sound'. the 580 is the more neutral one but the 650 might be more exciting in some forms of music. its worth keeping both, I think.

 the total 'build' cost seems to be in the $225 range for a from-scratch 650 (w/600 grills).


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## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the total 'build' cost seems to be in the $225 range for a from-scratch 650 (w/600 grills)._

 

Now that's awesome! I see a trend starting here!


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## linuxworks

the only part I didn't ask for a quote on was the retail box.

 that wasn't worth the extra $100 to me (grin)


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## olblueyez

Can you give us a better break down on the parts and prices?


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## linuxworks

when I get my final shipment, I'll have the rest of the actual boxes to show, with part #'s on them.

 I need to actually see things before I post that 'it works' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 parts should be here later this week.


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## bmwpowere36m3

While what you did was neat and you think you have a "cheap" pair of HD650's... you're not getting the matched drivers. OE (HD650) the pair of drivers are matched for response, but when you order a replacement it's not going to be matched any longer to the existing driver. I also doubt that buying a "set" of drivers from Senn that they'll come matched as well, since you buy them individually.

 Just saying, the big fuss about them is being precisly matched to some level.


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## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bmwpowere36m3* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_While what you did was neat and you think you have a "cheap" pair of HD650's... you're not getting the matched drivers. _

 

I was waiting for someone to chime in about matching drivers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 some people may believe it. some may care. I kind of don't believe they match and I actually don't care as much.

 matching single-value parts is easy. matching things that have freq responses like mountains, nah, not sure how you can 'match' them. this driver has a slight peak over here, lets try to match that - oops, but the valley over there isn't matching this one. you see what I'm saying? matching 2 mountain ranges is 'marketing'. imho!

 they are from the same batch. that's 'matched' enough I think.

 also, if you sent yours in, do you THINK you'd get a matched pair?

 why would the service center get pairs and the customer cannot?

 I think this whole matching this is made-up. I honestly do. I was not able to buy or even request a matching service. why sell parts that *should* be matched (in theory) and yet not really label them as a key'd matching set?

 fwiw, the wait was about a month to get these. all else was in stock but the drivers for the 650 is a 4week wait. do they pull them off the production line and send them to the US? don't know. they clearly don't just pull them from 'local bins' since the other parts arrived on time and only the 650 drivers were the long wait.


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## bmwpowere36m3

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was waiting for someone to chime in about matching drivers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 some people may believe it. some may care. I kind of don't believe they match and I actually don't care as much.

 matching single-value parts is easy. matching things that have freq responses like mountains, nah, not sure how you can 'match' them. this driver has a slight peak over here, lets try to match that - oops, but the valley over there isn't matching this one. you see what I'm saying? matching 2 mountain ranges is 'marketing'. imho!

 they are from the same batch. that's 'matched' enough I think.

 also, if you sent yours in, do you THINK you'd get a matched pair?

 why would the service center get pairs and the customer cannot?

 I think this whole matching this is made-up. I honestly do. I was not able to buy or even request a matching service. why sell parts that *should* be matched (in theory) and yet not really label them as a key'd matching set?

 fwiw, the wait was about a month to get these. all else was in stock but the drivers for the 650 is a 4week wait. do they pull them off the production line and send them to the US? don't know. they clearly don't just pull them from 'local bins' since the other parts arrived on time and only the 650 drivers were the long wait._

 

While, I don't disagree with what you said... since I don't have personal experience with "matched" drivers, I've heard from the "balanced headphone" guys that having "matched" drivers is very important. They say it much more noticeable when balanced, if one driver is slightly different than the other.


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## linuxworks

if the phones were flat (freq response wise) then I'd want to match in SPL level so that sensitivity is as close as possible. but its not just a single number, its not a scalar, its a whole graph that you'd have to 'match'. and I don't know if its cost effective for anyone to try to 'match' mountains 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 does the company specifically say its matches? does it say it includes the other 580/600 line or not? and if it does sell the 650's matched, then why aren't they allowing customers to re-buy them matched?

 it would be a 'bad' story to have matched drivers ON at purchase time. see what I mean? the whole thing doesn't make sense when you look at it.

 a production run is about as 'matched' as we're likely to get. I bet that's what they mean


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## Navyblue

I guess HD600 and HD650 have structurally identical headband? How about the grill?

 FWIW, the last time I compared HD600 and HD650 back to back I wouldn't call them night and day either, in fact I found them very similar with the HD600 having a tiny bit brighter and harsher treble.


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## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Navyblue* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess HD600 and HD650 have structurally identical headband? How about the grill?_

 

I think all 3 of them share the same dimensions. I'll find out about the headband when it arrives (IF it arrives; my order into sennheiser seems to have gotton delayed or lost...)

  Quote:


 FWIW, the last time I compared HD600 and HD650 back to back I wouldn't call them night and day either, in fact I found them very similar with the HD600 having a tiny bit brighter and harsher treble. 
 

my 580 seems more 'present' on midrange and the 650 seems more subdued in that range. but they don't sound very different - if I want 'very different' I can put on some junky sony cans. yuk! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 THAT is day and night (v6 from sony, which I used to love as a kid but just can't stomach that sound anymore)


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## rogerlike

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_(v6 from sony, which I used to love as a kid but just can't stomach that sound anymore)_

 

A couple of years ago a work colleague came to me asking for headphone recommendations, saying he wanted to find something better than the junk he'd always had. Well, I told him to go to our local hifi shop and _try out_ some Grados and Sennheisers, and told him to take along his player and some music.

 The next day he came into work all proud. Wearing V6.

 D'oh!


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## linuxworks

my parts came today.

 well, most of them.

 the headband showed up and the hd600 screen grills came. but there was ONE part missing that I assumed was part of the headband assembly, the lower separate plastic trim moulding that goes around the lower rim of the driver plastic and also secures around the cord/plug area.

 that part wasn't included in the headband ;( I guess I thought that those pieces would just come as part of the whole thing (I didn't need to order foam for the band, that came as part of it).

 I'm trying to find out that final part # and its cost. its a little important in that it strengthens the cord/plug area. the cosmetic aspect of it doesn't bother me (not having it) - just that the plug needs a bit of strain relief and that part did help with it.

 so, I'm 99% there. just can't believe I have to order yet ONE more part...

 is anyone planning on making any sennheiser orders? if so, maybe I can add my single measly part to yours? I hate paying more for shipping than parts (sigh).


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## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Navyblue* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess HD600 and HD650 have structurally identical headband? How about the grill?_

 

to be honest, I'm not sure I LIKE the 650 band, now that I'm trying it ;(

 like people say, it grips more snugly. maybe too much. I'm very used to the 'relaxed' 580 fit.

  Quote:


 
 FWIW, the last time I compared HD600 and HD650 back to back I wouldn't call them night and day either, in fact I found them very similar with the HD600 having a tiny bit brighter and harsher treble. 
 

I certainly don't see the REASON for why the 650 costs so much more. that baffles me (heh) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 these seem like sister pairs, not at all a higher level and lower level but more like peers. so why does the 650 cost so much more? I don't see that; and having played around with the parts, I REALLY don't see the reason for why the 650 costs so much.

 I'm starting to think its 95% marketing ;(


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## Navyblue

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I certainly don't see the REASON for why the 650 costs so much more. that baffles me (heh) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 these seem like sister pairs, not at all a higher level and lower level but more like peers. so why does the 650 cost so much more? I don't see that; and having played around with the parts, I REALLY don't see the reason for why the 650 costs so much._

 

That was I my thought too. It could be that I am no Sennheiser expert. But I have a hard time telling them apart if I wasn't looking at their colour. And I think I can quite comfortably tell K501 from K701 apart. I prefered the HD650, but I don't see the HD650 being obviously a better headphone, when I heard the HD600 long enough the advantage that I perceive in HD650 began to disappear.

 But anyway I have been looking for a a good headphone for portable use that has good isolation and a lush midrange. As far as I know there is nothing in the market that satisfies all the conditions. I am now toying the idea of making one basing on HD650 drivers. And ideally using the HD650 earpad too, but I guess it would kill the isolation.


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## rembrant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Navyblue* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But anyway I have been looking for a a good headphone for portable use that has good isolation and a lush midrange. As far as I know there is nothing in the market that satisfies all the conditions. I am now toying the idea of making one basing on HD650 drivers. And ideally using the HD650 earpad too, but I guess it would kill the isolation._

 

Sony MDR CD60.
 They are great headphones for mid range. Of all the sets I have owned over the years they are some of the best I have heard for the female voice. The price is right too. They have a studio monitor sound that really appeals to people who listen to singers and not bands. I have yet to find a set of phones that really suits the music I prefer(Speedy and complex). I am not a fan of open phones. I don't even try the more expensive sets for fear that I will like them and have to spend money on a set of phones that costs more than my speakers. I guess my point is, if I want to disturb people around me I might as well listen to a set of speakers.


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## chobint

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_to be honest, I'm not sure I LIKE the 650 band, now that I'm trying it ;(

 like people say, it grips more snugly._

 

Patience. It loosens up with time.


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## digger945

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm starting to think its 95% marketing ;(_

 

I'm starting to think your 100% correct
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 As for the matched drivers thing a few posts back, maybe that's the only difference between the 580/600/650's is that Senn hand matches the drivers for the 650(or not?). I really don't think I could tell the difference, especially when the signals for left and right are different(stereo), not to mention the fact that I can't hear the same with each of my ears.
 I can see how this might make a difference in correctly reproducing the space or soundstage to someone with better hearing than myself.
 Like you said before, it would be pretty hard to closely match two drivers across the entire audio spectrum, me thinks.


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## Navyblue

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rembrant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sony MDR CD60.
 They are great headphones for mid range. Of all the sets I have owned over the years they are some of the best I have heard for the female voice. The price is right too. They have a studio monitor sound that really appeals to people who listen to singers and not bands. I have yet to find a set of phones that really suits the music I prefer(Speedy and complex). I am not a fan of open phones. I don't even try the more expensive sets for fear that I will like them and have to spend money on a set of phones that costs more than my speakers. I guess my point is, if I want to disturb people around me I might as well listen to a set of speakers._

 

Does it isolate well? To me it looks like most other Sonys that doesn't really isolate.

 "Studio monitor" sounding and yet lush? To me those adjective seems to be on the opposite sides of the spectrum.


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## rembrant

I guess I'm showing my age. When I listened to studio monitors back in the day, they where paper speakers basically. Not much came out of them but mid range.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Think of them as quite even with a nice lump in the middle. Far from boomy with soft highs. Compared to the senn eh150's I have now I would say they where very laid back. They isolated well and completely cover the ear. I wish I still had them. After 5 years the right cup broke off. I still have the drivers from them around here somewhere.

 Edit: I found some reviews. Most people seem to like them. To me they where only OK. I prefer my modded senns.

http://www3.dealtime.com/xPR-Sony-MD...nce-Headphones


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## Navyblue

Thanks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think I can imagine what you were saying. I think I am checking it out, hope that I can find one.


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## deaconblues

I'm really glad I found this thread. I have just called up Sennheiser and placed an order for the HD650 elements, new ear cushions, and a new cable. The ancient springs in my HD580 elements can no longer maintain a good connection with the cable, so I've currently got it hardwired to a starquad cable. I find it sort of amusing that upgrading my HD580's elements to the HD650 version is cheaper than repairing it with the actual HD580/HD600 elements. I'm now eagerly awaiting the packages which will breathe new life into my old friend


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## mbd2884

Linux where are you ordering all your parts from? Can you link the website?


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## linuxworks

no website - since I'm in the US, I just called senn USA on the phone.

 the 650 parts can't be ordered online - they want you to call (not sure why).


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## Vadim

This may be a long shot, but is it at all possible to do this with HD 800 drivers after modding the phones a bit? If you can get a decent price on just the drivers, why not try this.


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## deaconblues

The HD600 and HD650 are based on the HD580. They all have the same shape, so their parts are interchangeable. The HD800, on the other hand, is a totally new design. It's highly unlikely that you'll just be able to pop HD800 parts into another headphone... of course, that probably wouldn't stop some headfiers from trying if the opportunity should arise


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## Hayduke

I know this is an oldish thread, but Linuxworks has it in his sig and I just noticed it. Sue me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_not sure yet. they are said to have a different sound (bit of a dip in the midrange, I think) and I wanted to see what the hype about the 650 was all about, too.

 they don't sound THAT different from the 580. I could tell immediately if I put some sony cans on; but the 580 to the 650 is not day and night._

 

I have 580s and 650s and I would not describe the difference as subtle. While my ears may be more critical then most, I have a coworker who's ears are definitely not. He listens to a pair of Sony MDR-600s. I had him compare my 580s and 650s and he could describe the same differences I hear. 650s have a fuller low end. I've read people say that the highs and/or mids seemed recessed on the 650s. After a lot of comparison, I think the mids and highs are a little "smoother" on the 650s. To me, they are there in the same quantities as the 580s, but they have a slightly different "feel". I also don't like the description of the 650 bass as "boomy". There is definitely more bass, but I think it is still very accurate and refined.

 I will admit though that I am a HUGE fan of the 650s 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rogerlike* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Linuxworks, nice job and nice project title 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's my understanding that what made the HD580 Jubilee special was the use of (anti-resonant) carbon fibre for the frame and headband, and reportedly makes a big sonic difference (subsequently used in both HD600 and HD650). The step up from a standard HD580 to an HD600 is supposed to be pretty non-subtle._

 

definitely non-subtle 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_if they did provide a matching service, I might consider paying for it as long as it wasn't overly expensive, but I'd also expect graphs of each driver to PROVE to me that they did something for the money 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 do brand new 650's come with charts? real ones that were measured from the actual drivers?

*or do people just go on faith that this is being done?*

 personally, I'm often of the mind of "pics or it didn't happen" (lol) as kids today are fond of saying 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I just let me ears decide if they like the phones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I never even knew they claimed to match the drivers lol


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## linuxworks

I really wonder if the lower bass of the 650's is MOSTLY due to tighter clamping of the headband!

 seriously.

 when I had the 650 drivers in my 580 band, it seems pretty much identical. I do think the 650 drivers in the 650 band do 'feel' stronger in bass but it just may be simple clamp pressure that explains it.


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## handoferebus

Could you post up a part's # list for the 650 buildup, using the 600 grills? I definitely want to do this, however I want to make sure I get all of the parts on the first try


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## Zaubertuba

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_no website - since I'm in the US, I just called senn USA on the phone.

 the 650 parts can't be ordered online - they want you to call (not sure why)._

 

Hmmm...I wonder if this could be done with my 555's. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Do they ask you what you're using the drivers for, or is it just a run-of-the-mill telephone order?

 EDIT: Re-read the thread and caught you just need to call and ask for "repair and replacement parts." So, it really is that easy...


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## meatwad

linuxworks, have you done a comparison of your Franken650s with the original 580 setup? You said that there was not a pronounced difference when you first popped the new drivers in, I was just thinking that maybe this was because the new drivers needed to properly burn-in and all that.

 Seems like you basically have 2 sets of headphones then, right? for you personally, how's the difference sound now after the new cans have gotten comfortable?


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## exphy

where do you get the drivers for 40us$


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## roker

Is it possible to build my own pair of 580/600/650s?

 I'm going for cheapest, so if it's cheaper to build a pair of 580s, then I'll do it. I'll do any combination as well.


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## linuxworks

you can order parts for any of those 3 phones and mix/match them.

 call sennheiser (phone, not web or mail) and they'll walk you thru it if you ask them to. they can help you get all the parts to 'build' your own. I would not quite highlight the fact that you're building one entirely from parts, when you're on the phone, though


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## AndrewFischer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *digger945* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I maybe that's the only difference between the 580/600/650's is that Senn hand matches the drivers for the 650(or not?)._

 

There's the cable too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I bought a HD600 cable ages ago for the 1/4" connector.

 Of course Its mostly marketing and markup. I doubt the 650/600 costs Senn more than €3.00 more to make then the 580 did.

 On the other hand this thread has me thinking about getting a few 'spare parts' for my 580s. Ear cushions at least. I had thought about getting the 600 grills. Never occurred to me to swap the drivers or headband.

 Great thread.


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## linuxworks

I really don't like the 600 grills vs 580. 580 was more robust (did not dent like 600's do). they both provide the same function and its arguable if one is better than the other, sound wise. but surely one is way more dentable and I find that a negative, in the long run.

 that would basically lock you into the whole 580 infrastructure. when I ordered, they did not have all the 580 parts. maybe they do now, you'd have to call and check.

 when you order 'whole headbands' DO remember to order both parts; the headband assembly and the lower half rings that 'angle' into place and secure the cable connector parts to the headphone cups. those half circle parts are NOT included in the headband package (at least for the 650 band). I still don't have my lower half-circle bezel parts and have not inquired what their part # or cost is, but I'm running my 650's without that. just being really careful not to hit the connectors at the phones/cup point since the lack of bezels makes that connection especially weak and fragile ;(


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## jclaytonsound

linuxworks,

 Have you compared your DIY 650s to any genuine 650s? And if so, have you noticed any difference?

 Thanks.


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## linuxworks

I have not compared them. I doubt I'd be able to tell any diff. why would there be any? I used all senn parts. I would not even do this test as I already can guess what the result would be (they'd sound like any other sample from the hd650 series; sample to sample variation is all one would notice).

 no mods were done; no baffling or 'dynamat' (oh please!) or anything other than using snap-together parts.

 I assure you that there is NO talent in doing a snap-on assembly job (lol).


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## jclaytonsound

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have not compared them. I doubt I'd be able to tell any diff. why would there be any? I used all senn parts. I would not even do this test as I already can guess what the result would be (they'd sound like any other sample from the hd650 series; sample to sample variation is all one would notice).

 no mods were done; no baffling or 'dynamat' (oh please!) or anything other than using snap-together parts.

 I assure you that there is NO talent in doing a snap-on assembly job (lol)._

 

Thanks, I'm thinking I might but some 650 drivers for my 600s...


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## AndrewFischer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I really don't like the 600 grills vs 580. 580 was more robust (did not dent like 600's do). they both provide the same function and its arguable if one is better than the other, sound wise._

 

Good to know. The grills are about the only part other than the drivers that might make a real change to the sound. One would think that the different grills are tuned to the different drivers, but who knows. The true difference might be cosmetic. 

 A tighter headband would make a change too, but I wouldn't want to wear anything tighter.

 The 600 cable is a worthwhile upgrade but not for sonic reasons.

 If the 600 or 650 ear pads fit on otherwise stock 580s, maybe I'll just get a set of ear pads.


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## linuxworks

the grills don't resonate (they shouldn't) and they don't add anything to the sound. they are not a reflecting surface; they are acoustically transparent. all of them are. its ONLY a matter of looks and materials. I cannot believe there are any real (significant) diffs in the baffles.


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## petert210

According to the Sennheiser USA store website, the ear cushions for 580, 600 and 650 are the same (Part number 050635).


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## petert210

Quote: 





andrewfischer said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> ...


 

 According to the Sennheiser USA store website, the ear cushions for 580, 600 and 650 are the same (Part number 050635).


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## FaLLeNAn9eL

Quote: 





linuxworks said:


> I really don't like the 600 grills vs 580. 580 was more robust (did not dent like 600's do). they both provide the same function and its arguable if one is better than the other, sound wise. but surely one is way more dentable and I find that a negative, in the long run.
> 
> that would basically lock you into the whole 580 infrastructure. when I ordered, they did not have all the 580 parts. maybe they do now, you'd have to call and check.
> 
> when you order 'whole headbands' DO remember to order both parts; the headband assembly and the lower half rings that 'angle' into place and secure the cable connector parts to the headphone cups. those half circle parts are NOT included in the headband package (at least for the 650 band). I still don't have my lower half-circle bezel parts and have not inquired what their part # or cost is, but I'm running my 650's without that. just being really careful not to hit the connectors at the phones/cup point since the lack of bezels makes that connection especially weak and fragile ;(


 
  Sorry about bumping an old thread but did you ever get around to ordering the lower trim piece for the HD650 headband? Thank you so much for this thread. I'm planning on doing the element upgrade very soon!


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## FaLLeNAn9eL

Double post, sorry. Sennheiser does sell the lower trim piece but you have to order it through their spare parts department. Pictures are worth a thousand words.


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## Ichinichi

Here is the list of part numbers, description and prices that I have and that are mentioned throughout this thread:
   

```
050635 Earpads    $??/each 092885 Cable      $12 092855 Driver     $40/each ?????? Headband   $85 ?????? 650 Grills $40/each 092815 600 Grills $6/each 092538 Lower trim $??/each
```
   
  I've owned each of the 580/600/650. I must say that the 650 band is stiffer than the other two. Aesthetically, I don't know what they were thinking with regard to the 600 band. But I'd prefer them 650 > 600 > 580.
   
  I recommend the DarthMod for a cheaper 580/650 headband though since the 600 grills will match a black headband:
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/235262/edu-how-to-mod-your-senn580#post_2896528
   
  Clearly, the bulk of the cost is in the drivers, the headband and those grills. I do recall that the grills on the 650 are made of a much stiffer material.


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## neks0ne

[size=10pt]I stumbled upon this thread yesterday while doing some research. I had recently ordered new pads for my 650s, as well has a 580/600 headband cushion - and while I was at it- some 580 elements (for a side project).....at some point the order got screwy, and I had to call today. I’m now glad my order did not effectively get processed. I saved about 40 bucks and I’m getting HD650 elements instead.[/size]
  [size=10pt] [/size]
  [size=10pt] [/size]
  [size=10pt]I don’t want to list prices that are already listed- but it definitely is surprising when you pay less for the 650 element.[/size]
  [size=10pt] [/size]
  [size=10pt]This thread is proof we are overly dependent on the web, Like many of you; I scoffed at the notion of speaking directly with another human- that would be......barbaric! [/size]
  [size=10pt]Over all- Sennheiser has always been a product of choice for me- I love the product, and I appreciate the ease of dealing with them when I have too.[/size]
  [size=10pt] [/size]
  [size=10pt]pS: Linuxworks, Love the pics on the first page- did you ever get pics of the Headband Complete that you ordered (if this was someone else- my apology).[/size]


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## slovetro

I just wanted to post on here saying that I am so grateful to all of you.  This thread (along with http://www.head-fi.org/t/627036/sennheiser-hd580-hd600-replacement-driver-parts-lists-costs) showed me the process of buying replacement parts and helped me to buy all the spare parts I needed (650 drivers, 600 grills, 600 headband, cable, earpads, and lower trim) to make own pair of headphones!  I will call them my 625s!
  
 Anyway, just signed up with Head-Fi to tell everyone about my experience and that it can be done!  Total cost: $269.18
  
 I'm listening to them right now and couldn't be happier. 
  
 -Sam


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