# DENON DA-10 DSD - New portable DAC/Headphone AMP



## HiFiRobot

Denon has joined the portable DAC/AMP club. DSD, gain switch, variable or fixed output and quite macho looks on this one.
  
 • Advanced AL32 Processing
 • DAC master clock design
 • PCM1795 - 192kHz/32bit D/A Converter
 • 192kHz/24bit and DSD (2.8MHz/5.6MHz) files
 • Asynchronous mode
 • Supports ASIO, WASAPI EVENT
 • Fixed analogue output mode to connect to Hi-Fi Amp
 • USB Micro-B input for computer
 • USB-A input (for iPod/iPhone/iPad)
 • Mini Jack (AUX) input for Android device or portable device
 • Smartphone size for mobility (Target: iPhone5 size)
 • 8H run time rechargable battery
 • Bag/Pouch for both DA-10 and your portable player (t.b.c.)
 • Solid volume knob for Hi-Fi quality look and feel
 • Gain switch (Low, High) for different impedance Headphones
 • DA-10 works and charges battery when connected to computer by USB
 • Aluminum body (Premium Silver)
 • Gold plated HP Jack
 • Frequency response: 2 Hz - 50 kHz (-3dB)
 • Signal-to-noise ratio: 108dB (Volume max, 2V)
 • Total harmonic distortion: 0.003% (1 kHz, audible range)
 • Headphone Power: 40mW + 40mW (32 ohms, 1% distortion), 18mW + 18mW (600 ohms, 1% distortion)
 • The size is 139 x width 64 x depth 29mm thickness. 
 • 240g Weight
 • Date of release October in Japan, November for Italy
 • Price: - ¥42000, 329€, 2798SEK
  






  
 Source
 http://www.denon.jp/jp/News/Pages/News-Details.aspx?NewsType=company%20news&NewsId=293&Year=
 http://www.monoandstereo.com/2014/07/denon-da-10-dsd-dac-new.html
 http://www.areadvd.de/tests/high-end-2014-der-auftritt-von-denon-und-marantz/
 http://japanese.engadget.com/2014/07/20/da-10-usb-dac-dsd-5-6mhz-pcm-192khz-24bit/
 http://www.avmagazine.it/news/sorgenti/denon-da-10-dac-portatile-dsd_9388.html
 http://www.quotidianoaudio.it/news/dac/denon-10-convertitore-portatile-dsd/
 http://www.avcesar.com/actu/id-14465/denon-da-10-dac-polyvalent-fixe-ou-portable.html


----------



## warrior1975

very sexy looking, wonder how is sounds...


----------



## Prophet293

I can't wait for this to come out!!!!


----------



## shiorisekine

I wonder if the USB input A will only work for ipod and not android, might be a bit of a draw back for me. But good luck denon cant wait to hear one.


----------



## Prophet293

I hope some day Denon releases an all-in-one HD portable music player too.


----------



## shiorisekine

I know they have the music software app but I have never used it but I have seen the UI and I like it so as long as they utilized that in the DAP I would more than likely buy it.


----------



## Prophet293

shiorisekine said:


> I know they have the music software app but I have never used it but I have seen the UI and I like it so as long as they utilized that in the DAP I would more than likely buy it.


 
 I would like a Denon portable high res player that plays every format under the sun + this portable DAC/amp built-in as an all-in-one solution. They can make it big and bulky, wouldn't mind one bit, oh and it also needs a massive storage like 128GB or something.


----------



## Prophet293

It's almost October and there's no news of this coming out?


----------



## Necrophantasia

Well the planned release date according to Amazon Japan is October 11th. So soon!


----------



## HiFiRobot

Now listed in both uk and germany.

£299
http://pricespy.co.uk/product.php?p=2836738

€329
http://www.idealo.de/preisvergleich/Typ/4951035054390L100624695.html

https://geizhals.de/denon-da-10-silber-a1162898.html


----------



## Sound Eq

any word on how it sounds, and do you think it will drive audeze lcd2 rev2 and sound signature does it have


----------



## Prophet293

sound eq said:


> any word on how it sounds, and do you think it will drive audeze lcd2 rev2 and sound signature does it have


 
  
 says 6-300 ohms on the spec sheet


----------



## Sound Eq

i was wondering where can i buy one to be shipped to israel
  
 it strange no reviews yet though for it until now


----------



## hi-hi-fi

maybe it is slightly to early for reviews - at least for the english speaking world. the denon da-10 is released in japan in these days.
  
 if you use google translate you can read a bit here -
  
 early review (3 pages):
 http://www.phileweb.com/review/article/201409/18/1356.html
  
 2-part interview with development division manager (from the denon offical blog):
 part 1: http://pr.denon.com/jp/Denon/Lists/Posts/Post.aspx?ID=316#.VDfcs76yTCF
 part 2: http://pr.denon.com/jp/Denon/Lists/Posts/Post.aspx?ID=317#.VDfexL6yTCE
  
 something more here:
 http://www.fujiya-avic.jp/blog/?p=14829
  
 and here (6 pages):
 http://www.phileweb.com/news/d-av/201407/19/35296.html
  
 and here:
 http://www.phileweb.com/news/audio/201407/18/14706.html
  
 i have ordered it in norway for the price of $ 429/€ 340


----------



## Sound Eq

hi-hi-fi said:


> maybe it is slightly to early for reviews - at least for the english speaking world. the denon da-10 is released in japan in these days.
> 
> if you use google translate you can read a bit here -
> 
> ...


 

 can u show from where u bought it and do they ship to israel, as i find that it might be a good decent solution for me with my iOS device


----------



## hi-hi-fi

my friend - i purchased at: www.hifiklubben.no

but i suggest you contact:
CLEAR ELECTRONIC ENTERTAINMENT LTD
​13 Moses St. Tel Aviv, 67442 Israel
TEL: +972-3-6091100
FAX: +972-3-609220


----------



## pagh

In Denmark 2399kr = ~323 euro
  
http://www.hifiklubben.dk/Products/denon-da-10-d-a-konverter-74343/


----------



## Sound Eq

pagh said:


> In Denmark 2399kr = ~323 euro
> 
> http://www.hifiklubben.dk/Products/denon-da-10-d-a-konverter-74343/


 

 i dont understand the language and was wondering do they ship internationally


----------



## Brimstone

sound eq said:


> i dont understand the language and was wondering do they ship internationally


 
  
  
 Try this:
  
 https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hifiklubben.dk%2FProducts%2Fdenon-da-10-d-a-konverter-74343%2F&edit-text=
  
 says: Not in stock


----------



## Sound Eq

brimstone said:


> Try this:
> 
> https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hifiklubben.dk%2FProducts%2Fdenon-da-10-d-a-konverter-74343%2F&edit-text=
> 
> says: Not in stock


 

 When will u receive urs, i am so curious to read ur impressions
  
 which do u think guys is more powerful da10 or sony pha 3, and which do u expect to be a better all an all for iOS


----------



## hi-hi-fi

i already sent you a pm a few hours ago but can repeat:

contact your denon distributor in israel:

CLEAR ELECTRONIC ENTERTAINMENT LTD
​13 Moses St. Tel Aviv, 67442 Israel
TEL: +972-3-6091100
FAX: +972-3-609220

i expect to receive mine in about 1 month.


----------



## Sound Eq

hi-hi-fi said:


> i already sent you a pm a few hours ago but can repeat:
> 
> contact your denon distributor in israel:
> 
> ...




I prefer to buy online than from Israel as prices here for electronics are ridiculous that's why I ask if there is any European site that sells it and ships internationally


----------



## audionewbi

just wondering if anyone here has a hands on experience with this unit yet?


----------



## Sound Eq

price wise its good, we need to know feedback on it


----------



## audionewbi

I hope to get mine by end of the week. I needed something for my ipod when I am using my home NAS for streaming. I will test both its amp and DAC section. Its footprint should match calyx M nicely.
  
 I will surely provide my feedback on it. I hope it is worth its asking price point.


----------



## Sound Eq

can i ask why u need it if u have a calyx m, what is the missing thing in calyx that u need the da10 for


----------



## audionewbi

sound eq said:


> can i ask why u need it if u have a calyx m, what is the missing thing in calyx that u need the da10 for


 
 It is mostly out of curiosity but more importantly price tag in this hobby never speaks about how the sound actually is. I am in this place mostly as a hobby, a hobby that begun looking for a simple purchase for an amp for my ER4S. 
  
 Calyx M major bulk of price is developing a device with screen, I am thinking Denon DA-10 might sound just as good since they do not really need do to deal with screen and its related noise issues. Also Denon design seems to be complex. They are using a dual layer PCB and I like Burr Brown DAC and I am excited to have a Burr Brown device with me as the last one I had really kept me occupied in a good way.


----------



## Sound Eq

i wish to know if someone here can read some japanese reviews as google translate does not do a good job, all i am wondering does it have a good bass and is not shout in the mids
  
 i hope it will have a full rich warm sound with good bass


----------



## Prophet293

i thought the reviewers usually get their hands on a unit before retail release, but apparently no one has one yet...


----------



## hi-hi-fi

they did - in japan - but since it has not yet been released anywhere else it seems denon is not in a hurry.



prophet293 said:


> i thought the reviewers usually get their hands on a unit before retail release, but apparently no one has one yet...


----------



## audionewbi

Denon comes across as really confident considering how their product is priced higher than the Onkyo DAC HA200 which cost less and has the ability to support 24/96 using its free onkyo app that is activated when it is connected to it.
  
 More so it has optical in and can use as a dap and cost less than denon DA-10. 
  
 Denon does not have optical and it is limited to 24/48 and can act as an amp. It seems like they are so confident about their tuning that they believe it should not matter as they will win due to how good they tuned it.
  
 Hope it is right.
  
 Here is a brief introduction: http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/topic/20140909_662329.html


----------



## Prophet293

I text'd Mike aka Hifiguy528 to see if he's getting one anytime soon, it took him months to get a DA300USB last time.


----------



## hi-hi-fi

this blogger - dr thomabechi - a cognitive scientist and music freak - writes today about the denon da-10. he says it is wonderful and will gladly use this instead of the hugo when on the go while at the cafe or on a business trip and let the hugo do the work via itunes at home. he randomly listened to gunsnroses/mozart/led zeppelin/beethoven and are equally pleased - using the da-10 in combination with his iphone6+ & shure se846. he further thumbs up using the smart attached case that fits the iphone and da-10 as a unit - which of course also lets you control the screen of your phone behind the transparent surface. he ends the short review by saying that the very good denon da-10 improves extraordinarily on your music.

link:
http://www.tomabechi.jp/archives/51456025.html


----------



## Sound Eq

very good news, now where can i buy it from that ships to israel besides ebay, as on ebay its more expensive


----------



## hi-hi-fi

i suggest that you have a look at the japanese version of amazon - they sell it as of now. i have purchased plenty times through them and never experienced any hassle - usually takes 5 days to norway. or maybe you just have to wait until it hits the stores in your neighborhood


----------



## Sound Eq

hi-hi-fi said:


> i suggest that you have a look at the japanese version of amazon - they sell it as of now. i have purchased plenty times through them and never experienced any hassle - usually takes 5 days to norway. or maybe you just have to wait until it hits the stores in your neighborhood


 

 do they ship to Israel though


----------



## hi-hi-fi

i couldn't know. you have to check out on their website yourself.


----------



## Sound Eq

hi-hi-fi said:


> i couldn't know. you have to check out on their website yourself.


 

 its in japanese and google translate sucks in doing a good translation


----------



## hi-hi-fi

the site is in english as well. however - i feel the details of this conversation concerning availability and ordering the da-10 is heading a wrong direction and disrupts this thread so i friendly suggest that you research a little bit more on your own. it is not likely that you will find the da-10 to become substantially more expensive when ordered through denon's distributor in israel - the contact details of which i provided above - than ordering from a foreign country . thank you.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

I've reached out to my contact at Denon.  Hope to get my paws on it soon.  No holding my breath though...


----------



## Pippin76

I enquired today at Denon's Danish dealer and they expect to have it om the shelves middle to late nov.


----------



## Sound Eq

i ordered it today so i will report back, i am gonna try to see how it works with my iPod and audeze lcd2


----------



## capitanharlock

Here are the tech specs:
  
 http://www.denon.co.uk/uk/product/pages/product-detail.aspx?catid=hificomponents&subid=usbdaconverters&productid=da10
  
  
 Specifications
  
 Advanced AL 32 Processing
 •
 Frequency response
 2 Hz - 50 kHz (-3dB)
 DAC
 32bit / 192kHz
 Signal-to-noise ratio
 108dB (Volume max, 2V)
 Analogue input/output
 •/•
 Total harmonic distortion
 0.003% (1 kHz, audible range)
 USB input
 USB-Audio / Micro USB-B
*Headphone Power*
*40mW + 40mW (32 ohms, 1% distortion)*
*PCM resolution (USB-B)*
*24bit / 192kHz*
*18mW + 18mW (600 ohms, 1% distortion)*
 DSD Streaming USB-B
 DSD2.8MHz / DSD5.6MHz
 Asynchronous Mode
 •
 Bittransparent mode
 •
 Headphone output
 •
 Headphone gain control
 Normal / High
 General
 Max. dimensions (W x H x D)
 64 x 139 x 29 mm
 Weight
 0.24kg
  
  
 Looks not powerful enough to me, the Teac is around 100mw on 32ohms...


----------



## Sound Eq

capitanharlock said:


> Here are the tech specs:
> 
> http://www.denon.co.uk/uk/product/pages/product-detail.aspx?catid=hificomponents&subid=usbdaconverters&productid=da10
> 
> ...


 

 so from the specs u think it won't drive the audeze well enough, dam that is not what i was hopping for when i placed my order, so i guess now i need to couple it with an amp, any good recommendations for a portable amp


----------



## capitanharlock

I am not saying this, it depends on your listening habits.
 Just saying it's not very powerful and seeing that the Audeze is rating at: > 130dB with 15W   maybe you would need something more "beefy"...


----------



## Sound Eq

capitanharlock said:


> I am not saying this, it depends on your listening habits.
> Just saying it's not very powerful and seeing that the Audeze is rating at: > 130dB with 15W   maybe you would need something more "beefy"...


 

 this means i need a portable amp too, i am just wondering which one is better to couple it with the all rx mk3+ or something better, i am open for suggestions 
  
 i have a friend who want to sell the alo national would that be a nice add on to the da 10 to drive my adueze


----------



## audionewbi

Just wait for your item to arrive before make any other purchases.


----------



## audionewbi

The unit arrives, it is surely will not disappoint. The device needs to be evaluated based on 1)amp section, 2)ipod DAC and 3)USB DAC. 
  
 First notice the ipod DAC using redbook quality sound really good, I could not tell apart its higher output. It is also more quiet compared to camera kit connection.


----------



## goodvibes

Unit may be great at what it does but without a proper coax or for that matter any SP/dif input it could never compete with the best, given top sources. That said, it's purpose is portable but then even limited to I devices. The line out is the headphone out with fixed gain. Could be really good with I devices and as a USB DAC connected directly to headphones but overall it's rather self limiting compared to the admittedly much more expensive Hugo. That's a lot of brick to carry around vs just getting a dedicated HiDef DAP.


----------



## audionewbi

goodvibes said:


> Unit may be great at what it does but without a proper coax or for that matter any SP/dif input it could never compete with the best, given top sources. That said, it's purpose is portable but then even limited to I devices. The line out is the headphone out with fixed gain. Could be really good with I devices and as a USB DAC connected directly to headphones but overall it's rather self limiting compared to the admittedly much more expensive Hugo. That's a lot of brick to carry around vs just getting a dedicated HiDef DAP.


 
 yes at this price it has a lot missing but its selling point is improving on the redbook quality sound. Does it do it? Well my early impression tells me yes it does, is it a reference level sound? Not quiet but if you like the sound of portaphile 627x this thing should be right on top of your try list.
  
 I think with time it will come down on the pricing and honestly at 300 USD this thing is a no brainer for those who have an ipod classic and a library full of redbook quality music.


----------



## Sound Eq

i hope at least its better than my go dap x by venturecraft, or fiio e18, or idsd by ifi


----------



## audionewbi

sound eq said:


> i hope at least its better than my go dap x by venturecraft, or fiio e18, or idsd by ifi


 
 I have not tried those but if you like a warm sound this should be for you.
  
 For me the low gain is good if I want a relax sound which seems to offer the larger soundstage but the high sound give a lot of detail to the string based instrument and makes things more intimate but at the cost of reduced soundstage.
  
 It should have enough power for vast majority of IEM, I will try the ER4S soon and report back.


----------



## Prophet293

audionewbi said:


> I think with time it will come down on the pricing and honestly at 300 USD this thing is a no brainer for those who have an ipod classic and a library full of redbook quality music.


 
  
 $300 USD? Where?
  
 Btw, how does the Denon DA-10 compare to Sony PHA-2?


----------



## Prophet293

here's an hour long video on the DA-10, it's in Japanese so I have no idea what they are saying
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5x0gFXodD4


----------



## audionewbi

prophet293 said:


> $300 USD? Where?
> 
> Btw, how does the Denon DA-10 compare to Sony PHA-2?


 
 Not now, it eventually will come down in pricing.
  
 Ofcourse the wise thing is to wait and see how it compares against all those other DAC/AMP units that is due to be release in fujia avic festival later this year.
  
 I do not have the PHA-2 so I cannot comment.
  
 My only current negative feedback on Denon is the relatively loss volume knob, it is no as firm as I like it to be.


----------



## audionewbi

Like to share some pictures of Denon DA-10.
  
 Please note the professional pictures are from Amazon japan web-page and the one which is obviously no where near the quality of those pictures are taken by me:


----------



## warrior1975

Damn...That bitch looks big.


----------



## Prophet293

some one do a comparison against the PHA-2


----------



## audionewbi

prophet293 said:


> some one do a comparison against the PHA-2


 
 PHA-2 was not popular, it had a high output impedance and I would assume for IEM usage denon should win.


----------



## Prophet293

audionewbi, does the DA-10 come with elastic straps? or just a case?


----------



## audionewbi

prophet293 said:


> audionewbi, does the DA-10 come with elastic straps? or just a case?


 
 Just a case, I have posted a picture of all the accessories in the pictures above.
  
 Here is the UK product page for more information.
 http://www.denon.co.uk/uk/product/pages/product-detail.aspx?catid=hificomponents&subid=usbdaconverters&productid=da10


----------



## hi-hi-fi

prophet293 said:


> audionewbi
> , does the DA-10 come with elastic straps? or just a case?




imo it is far more beneficial with a functional protecting case than rubber bands.


----------



## audionewbi

The case is good but not great. It could have been more elegant but I get why they went down that path, it protects the cable from any possible unwanted tension or tag.


----------



## Prophet293

So what headphones have you driven so far? How does it sound?


----------



## audionewbi

Headphones so far ES-10 and T5p, IEM almost all the stuff on my profile and few more I have not listed.
  
 Right now I am using it as an amp alone. In order for me to evaluate this unit I must consider three things:
  
*1)*How does it perform as an stand alone amp?
*2)*How does it work as an ipod dac/amp?
*3)*How does it work as a DAC/amp using the camera kit and onkyo app?
  
 If have left out the DAC alone to another amp feature (it does that using the fixed out feature) but for me that beside the point as it will be too large for me to carry it.
  
 The selling feature of this unit is the Advanced AL32 processing and this is why to me the most important feature is *2). *Currently I am using it as amp alone to preserve battery. 
 For more information please read this : http://www.denon.com/pages/GlossaryDetail.aspx?GId=13
  
 It is too soon to tell as I need to let it burn for 200 hour (for sake of mind) and than set down and listen to the same track over and over agin on different devices, trying to ensure my mind is not tricked into hearing things and than evaluate.
  
 So far so good, it is a device for IEM user, do not expect it to driver anything demanding as it will fail. (Sorry for the user who was hoping to drive the LCD2)


----------



## Sound Eq

audionewbi said:


> Headphones so far ES-10 and T5p, IEM almost all the stuff on my profile and few more I have not listed.
> 
> Right now I am using it as an amp alone. In order for me to evaluate this unit I must consider three things:
> 
> ...


 

 that is a huge bummer as i already ordered it and will be shipped soon
  
 how bout the sound signature is it warm at least i hope so, and the bass how it, and soundstage


----------



## audionewbi

sound eq said:


> that is a huge bummer as i already ordered it and will be shipped soon
> 
> how bout the sound signature is it warm at least i hope so, and the bass how it, and soundstage


 
 It is your typical Burr-Brown sound which is nice warm sound. It also has a nice treble present when it needs it. With K3003 it can be too revealing.
  
 Hey you might like it with LCD2, I do not have it but from what I have read LCD 2 is designed to be a desktop headphone and Denon DA-10 is designed to be portable.


----------



## Prophet293

audionewbi said:


> Hit is a device for IEM user, do not expect it to driver anything demanding as it will fail. (Sorry for the user who was hoping to drive the LCD2)


 
 I intend to use the DA-10 to drive my Denon D7100 and Sennheiser HD800. I'm sure it'd do the Denon just fine, but what do you think of the HD800?


----------



## audionewbi

prophet293 said:


> I intend to use the DA-10 to drive my Denon D7100 and Sennheiser HD800. I'm sure it'd do the Denon just fine, but what do you think of the HD800?


 
 People spend 2-5 K just on amps for HD800 so yes it can make it produce sound but I dont know how good it will be. 
  
 I think you guys are better off looking at centrance M8.


----------



## Prophet293

audionewbi said:


> People spend 2-5 K just on amps for HD800 so yes it can make it produce sound but I dont know how good it will be.
> 
> I think you guys are better off looking at centrance M8.


 
  
 Price does not equals to quality, especially in this audiophile business, a $2000 cable does not make any difference on sound, neither does a $20k DAC (some da vinci whatever).
  
 I have a Woo Audio WA2 and it drives the HD800 just fine, I was thinking perhaps the DA-10 could give the HD800 a run on the go.
  
 I'll look into the Centrance M8.


----------



## audionewbi

prophet293 said:


> Price does not equals to quality, especially in this audiophile business, a $2000 cable does not make any difference on sound, neither does a $20k DAC (some da vinci whatever).
> 
> I have a Woo Audio WA2 and it drives the HD800 just fine, I was thinking perhaps the DA-10 could give the HD800 a run on the go.
> 
> I'll look into the Centrance M8.


 
 Yes and No. While I am all for value but I have heard setup where it made me question the things I thought I was sure off.
  
 Trick is if you have find the sound and setup up you are truly happy stop looking and find ways to make it better, it will just open other doors which might just ruin it for you instead of adding to your enjoyment.
  
 I avoided HD800 as it can be quiet a chameleon. It has its own strong characteristics and can change and so call scale up so much with certain setup. 
  
 Hope you enjoy whatever you end up with.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

DA-10 vs. Sony PHA-3!  fight!


----------



## audionewbi

hifiguy528 said:


> DA-10 vs. Sony PHA-3!  fight!


 
 You are probably the only one who can do that. If that is the case I am looking forward to your impression on how it performs with XBA-Z5 and ofcourse against the upcoming woo portable amp.
  
 --------
 The following listening was done using *K3003, calyx M, AK120 and ipod touch 5G. *
*Album used*:Tord gustavsen-Extended circle.
  
  
*Amp section of Denon*: I just finished comparing the amp section of Denon feeding it with calyx M and Ak120 vs its internal DAC and to my ears the winner is truly the internal DAC. The amp section works and for most it might work perfectly as essentially it is quiet uncolored and transparent, meaning it will just amplify what is feed into it 
  
*Using ipod:* However with the internal amp you get a very natural bass decay and I have no complains on the treble using K3003. To me the winning part is certainly using this with an ipod. 
  
 I have not yet made my mind up on how it performs using the cck or as a USB DAC. Ofcourse the gap is pretty close and I cannot say which one is better, not yet at least.


----------



## audionewbi

*Another update: *I just finished pairing all my IEM and truth is they all paired fine with it but I like IE800 pairing with Denon DA-10 more than the rest. 
  
*Ipod DAC vs CCK: I am using onkyo app which allows me to use DSD and 24/192 files as well as 16/44.1 flac.*
 Okay if the files is 16/44.1 format the AL32 processing really does work. It gives the sound more body which means more intimate sound, it does not alter the soundstage. However to my ears if I used DSD or 24/192 files i lost a lot of detailed and it did not sounded as good when I used the CCK. 
  
 16/44.1 using CCK worked fine however my ears liked what AL32 processing did with them when I was using the ipod processing.
  
 Boy the *DSD* works on this thing, it really sounds great, maybe not as expansive as HUGO but it did not lack the micro-detail I heard on HUGO. HUGO just sounds more opened where as D10 was not quiet there. (Studio speakers vs HiFi setup)
  
*Ergh:* I dont like apple, maybe that was a little stupid of me getting a dedicated amp. So now I am looking at getting the new ipod A10 and the sony ipod lineout cable. I will be happy with that, 64 GB of internal plus 128 microSD, not bad!


----------



## Dogmatrix

Found an interesting interview with Mr Susumu Yoneda Denon sound manager
  
http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/topic/20140909_662329.html
  
 You will need translate unless you read Japanese
 Basically says they have gone to great effort to produce a true HiFi device worthy of the Denon name
 Many difficulties had to be overcome to use the Al 32 processor in a portable device 
 Runs differential balanced out of the Al 32 into TI OPA1662 followed by JRC NJM8801E and a discrete output stage
  
 Would seem this is no toy


----------



## audionewbi

I am getting the ipod classic and enjoy it for a long time. I would not worry about hi-res anymore.


----------



## pekingduck

Looks good. I wonder how much the output impedance is.


----------



## Prophet293

I'm still contemplating on wether to get this amp or not. Atm I have the Denon D7100 headphone and the DA300USB DAC/Amp, I wonder if this DA-10 is going to improve my D7100 on the go.


----------



## audionewbi

prophet293 said:


> I'm still contemplating on wether to get this amp or not. Atm I have the Denon D7100 headphone and the DA300USB DAC/Amp, I wonder if this DA-10 is going to improve my D7100 on the go.


 
 If you want to use it as an stand alone amp you might be disappointed. DA-10 magic is in its DAC section and in particular the AL32 processing.


----------



## Pippin76

audionewbi said:


> If you want to use it as an stand alone amp you might be disappointed. DA-10 magic is in its DAC section and in particular the AL32 processing.


 

 Hi audionewbi,
  
 Can you elaborate on the amp section disappoints? Is it lack of power or is it bad-sounding? My primary use will be IEM's so it should be powerful enough, I guess.


----------



## audionewbi

pippin76 said:


> Hi audionewbi,
> 
> Can you elaborate on the amp section disappoints? Is it lack of power or is it bad-sounding? My primary use will be IEM's so it should be powerful enough, I guess.


 
 It lacks power and it will only sound as good as what you plug it in. It should have enough power for over 90% of IEM/CIEM out there but its true magic is its DAC. The DAC truly complements the amp section, as a stand alone amp it is not powerful enough for me to consider it as as an amp first device.
  
 Most amp makers do the DAC as an after thought, few like denon make an amp section that complements their DAC section perfectly.


----------



## audionewbi

Just did a formal A/B with HUGO, okay HUGO did come out on top by sounding more open and less what one can say as claustrophobic but boy denon just does it different. The are both great sounding it just comes down to what you like. 

 I am using Denon alot more than HUGO as it is a lot more intimate.  Boy time to sale alot of gears if I could get over my audio hoarding.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

audionewbi said:


> You are probably the only one who can do that. If that is the case I am looking forward to your impression on how it performs with XBA-Z5 and ofcourse against the upcoming woo portable amp.
> 
> --------
> The following listening was done using *K3003, calyx M, AK120 and ipod touch 5G. *
> ...


 
  
 I'm trying to get my paws on both.  I will have Z5 here in a week from JP.  Love that earphone!  Love it!!!!


----------



## HiFiGuy528

prophet293 said:


> I'm still contemplating on wether to get this amp or not. Atm I have the Denon D7100 headphone and the DA300USB DAC/Amp, I wonder if this DA-10 is going to improve my D7100 on the go.


 
  
 DAC in DA300 is very impressive.  Amp is not so much with high impedance headphones.


----------



## audionewbi

hifiguy528 said:


> I'm trying to get my paws on both.  I will have Z5 here in a week from JP.  Love that earphone!  Love it!!!!


 
 I think Denon DA-10 is going to be leave you quiet pleasant if you like natural/warm sound. 

 As a USB DSD DAC/amp this thing does one incredibly good job, no complains when I had it compared to HUGO. The micro details are there but it simply presents it differently.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

audionewbi said:


> I think Denon DA-10 is going to be leave you quiet pleasant if you like natural/warm sound.
> 
> As a USB DSD DAC/amp this thing does one incredibly good job, no complains when I had it compared to HUGO. The micro details are there but it simply presents it differently.


 
  
 That's good to know.  What's the retail on the DA-10?  $399 USD?


----------



## audionewbi

hifiguy528 said:


> That's good to know.  What's the retail on the DA-10?  $399 USD?


 
 I got mine from pricejapan as I could not get any answer from when it was going to be made available locally. With all the fees I paid 512 AUD which is taking into account a 4000 Yen and the weaker Australian dollar.
  
 Am I happy to possibly paying more than what it can be when it is available locally? No as I know I will have many hours of listening with it.


----------



## Prophet293

I'm starting to get the feeling that the DA-10 is just a portable version of the DA300USB, if that's the case then I feel cheated because if I buy the DA-10 then what am I going to do with my DA300USB? sit it on my desktop to look pretty?


----------



## audionewbi

prophet293 said:


> I'm starting to get the feeling that the DA-10 is just a portable version of the DA300USB, if that's the case then I feel cheated because if I buy the DA-10 then what am I going to do with my DA300USB? sit it on my desktop to look pretty?


 
 I personally have not tried the DA300USB but if you look at my list of products (the one I use the most I have on my profile) I use Denon DA-10 more than my HUGO or my wagnus amp or the portaphile 627x. If the volume had better channel balance at lower listening volume this product is what I would consider perfect for those who like to use apple or CCK. Sure it lacks optical which I would have loved to see but there is no doubt in my mind in future this thing will drop down to 30,000 Yen or so and at that price range I do not know of any product that can challenge it. 
  
  
 I have ordered the walkman digital out cable which should arrive on friday and if it works I have one sweet.
  
 But ofcoure preference plays a role but in large Denon has done an exceptional job to my ears.
  
 Here is a detailed review from Veteran reviewer @Sasaki
  
 http://vaiopocket.seesaa.net/article/407520367.html


----------



## Prophet293

audionewbi said:


> Here is a detailed review from Veteran reviewer @Sasaki
> 
> http://vaiopocket.seesaa.net/article/407520367.html


 
  
 According to this review, the DA-10 has enough gain for the HD800 and the DA300USB doesn't? What? The DA300USB has no battery and it is huge compared to the DA-10, what's going on Denon? lol...


----------



## Sasaki

Because DA-10 has high gain mode (+12dB) but DA-300 has not.
I don't know why they did not implement gain-sw in DA-300. When I tried DA-300 I found it's hard to get enough SPL with HD800&low-level recordings and I told them so.


----------



## audionewbi

I think denon did a remarkable job with da-10.

I was enjoying it at high gain with ortofon eq8.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

prophet293 said:


> According to this review, the DA-10 has enough gain for the HD800 and the DA300USB doesn't? What? The DA300USB has no battery and it is huge compared to the DA-10, what's going on Denon? lol...


 
  
 DA300's gain is very low with high impedance headphones.


----------



## Prophet293

hifiguy528 said:


> DA300's gain is very low with high impedance headphones.


 
 which is precisely my question, why did Denon make the portable DA-10 more desktop headphone friendly than their desktop DA300? It makes absolutely no sense! Who in their right mind is going rock a pair of Sennheiser HD800 or Beyer T1 on the go? Seriously...


----------



## audionewbi

@Sasaki Did you had a chance to try the Denon AH-MM400?


----------



## Sasaki

Not yet.


----------



## audionewbi

Thank you sire, looking forward to it.

 Can I ask what IEM would you recommend for Denon DA-10? Does Weston ES60 work with Denon?


----------



## vhsownsbeta

audionewbi said:


> I think denon did a remarkable job with da-10.
> 
> I was enjoying it at high gain with ortofon eq8.


 

 audionewbi: how do you find the background with iems? Any hiss? I am thinking of the da-10 for use with my iphone and jhaudio roxannes. Not available in australia as of yet though...


----------



## audionewbi

It's really iem dependent. I hear it at max volume.

Also as an amp its very revealing as if the source is hissing you will hear it.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

audionewbi said:


> It's really iem dependent. I hear it at max volume.
> 
> Also as an amp its very revealing as if the source is hissing you will hear it.




Thanks. So with your iems at normal listening levels it's not a problem? You also mentioned channel imbalance earlier. Any worse than the majority of other amps?

I am thinking of buying from Japan so I won't be able to audition and just want to try to clear these things up...


----------



## audionewbi

vhsownsbeta said:


> Thanks. So with your iems at normal listening levels it's not a problem? You also mentioned channel imbalance earlier. Any worse than the majority of other amps?
> 
> I am thinking of buying from Japan so I won't be able to audition and just want to try to clear these things up...


channel imbalance is only an issue till volume knob turned at 8. After that no issue for me.

With high gain the imbalance issue can be fixed.

I am sure you will enjoy it but I advice you to wait, since demon is not AK friendly I see a price drop real soon.


----------



## Dogmatrix

audionewbi said:


> channel imbalance is only an issue till volume knob turned at 8. After that no issue for me.
> 
> With high gain the imbalance issue can be fixed.
> 
> I am sure you will enjoy it but I advice you to wait, since demon is not AK friendly I see a price drop real soon.


 
 Oh no !!! too late
 Pushed the buy button at Price Japan 
 Couldn't wait any longer 
  
 Many thanks to all that have posted reviews and impressions 
  
 Will report my own experience in a couple of weeks


----------



## audionewbi

dogmatrix said:


> Oh no !!! too late
> Pushed the buy button at Price Japan
> Couldn't wait any longer
> 
> ...


 
 Enjoy it, right now using it with dita truth as an amp and this thing has made me want to sale alot of my amps. In terms of sound it is able to compete with portaphile 627x, now that is great value! Okay as an amp alone it might not be able to completely beat 627x but add its internal DAC and the sound is as good as 627x.
  
 I know you will enjoy it so congrats and please keep this thread alive.
  
 I am looking forward to the Denons upcoming headphone which said to pair with DA-10. Price around under 400 AUD so not bad for a wondering mind.


----------



## pekingduck

audionewbi said:


> Enjoy it, right now using it with dita truth as an amp and this thing has made me want to sale alot of my amps. In terms of sound it is able to compete with portaphile 627x, now that is great value! Okay as an amp alone it might not be able to completely beat 627x but add its internal DAC and the sound is as good as 627x.
> 
> I know you will enjoy it so congrats and please keep this thread alive.
> 
> I am looking forward to the Denons upcoming headphone which said to pair with DA-10. Price around under 400 AUD so not bad for a wondering mind.


 
 Does it beat the Calyx M in the SQ department?


----------



## audionewbi

pekingduck said:


> Does it beat the Calyx M in the SQ department?


 
 Different presentation, they both have the same level of detail (using DSD file) but present it differently. Need to to say calyx M might be a touch less expansive than PCM DAC used inside DA-10. DA-10 is what some might consider natural/neutral where as calyx M as warm and file more revealing of poorer recording.
  
 Once again I will report back if you guys want this weekend when I can do a more indepth side by side listening. Right now I am enjoying DA-10 more simply because it sounds is far better than what it is asking for.


----------



## pekingduck

@audionewbi A detail comparo would be great!!


----------



## Sound Eq

finally got my da 10, and i owned before it the chord hugo, and for now i can say wow wow wow, this dac/amp is simply amazing.
  
 I will write more about it in the coming days, and for anyone who was wondering if it can drive the audeze lcd2 yes it does and amazingly


----------



## audionewbi

Yeaaaaaaaaaa, welcome to the small club sire!

I am very surprised on lcd2 but that again I don't own it personally.


----------



## Pippin76

Right, today I put my name down on the preorder list for this baby at Denon's Danish retailer. It should land on these shores around 7. or 8. nov.


----------



## audionewbi

congrats.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

pippin76 said:


> Right, today I put my name down on the preorder list for this baby at Denon's Danish retailer. It should land on these shores around 7. or 8. nov.




I have made the jump too and ordered from pricejapan.

In the scheme of things, it isn't a huge investment and the reactions of audionewbi and kyhkleif have piqued my interest...


----------



## Sound Eq

i think this a hidden gem, and to be honest i can't stop listening to my music collection, it has all i looked for in regards to sound signature, while i struggled with the chord hugo especially i found it to be a little sharp sounding this denon resolved that and all my music sounds dam great with this da10.


----------



## Prophet293

sound eq said:


> i think this a hidden gem, and to be honest i can't stop listening to my music collection, it has all i looked for in regards to sound signature, while i struggled with the chord hugo especially i found it to be a little sharp sounding this denon resolved that and all my music sounds dam great with this da10.




what headphone are you using with the DA-10?


----------



## audionewbi

sound eq said:


> i think this a hidden gem, and to be honest i can't stop listening to my music collection, it has all i looked for in regards to sound signature, while i struggled with the chord hugo especially i found it to be a little sharp sounding this denon resolved that and all my music sounds dam great with this da10.


precisely my thought x although Hugo with the right gear does have a much larger soundstage but the price difference is a lot.


----------



## Sound Eq

prophet293 said:


> what headphone are you using with the DA-10?


 

 audeze lcd2 rev2, and shure se846
  
 its so strange this gem on head-fi is not getting the deserved attention, its really worth much more than its price


----------



## audionewbi

Denon DA-10 does not pair with NWZ A15, darn it I was counting on this pairing


----------



## theboss1978

Hi, guys!
  
 What about the sound signature of DA-10? I have B&W P7 which are mostly neutral headphones with a little bit of warm. I'm lookin' for something which improve the sound, of course, but give more warm, live and joy to the listening. 
  
 I thought about DX90 or X5 DAP's to use (one of them) as a portable stuff but as a PC DAC also. I heard that AK120 is a great pair for P7 but that price...
  
 What do you think about DA-10? I know it's only a DAC but if it sounds as good as AK120 or similar, would it be a good option for me.
  
 Thanks in advance!


----------



## audionewbi

I liked my denon much more than ak120. It has s nice warmth that isn't bassy. I would describe is as natural/neutral.


----------



## theboss1978

Thanks!
  
 Could you write in a few words why you enjoy DA-10 more than AK120?
 Is it better or is it just has a better/nicer sound signature for you?
  
 I nearly bought X5 but now I really don't know what to do. DAP isn't so important to me and I could use DA-10 with my iPhone if I wanted to.
 If Denon sounded as good as AK120 (I mean only overall quality and sound impressions at all), I'd definitely consider it to buy.


----------



## audionewbi

I really cant, you might hate the denon sound is quiet personal.
  
 They are two different devices, if sound and value is concerned I would go with Denon, if an all in one unit is wanted Ak120 might be the right thing for you. 
  
 Right now AK120 is on sale in Japan for around 700 USD.


----------



## theboss1978

I know it's a personal expectations, so I'll try to listen to both in my place before I decide to buy something.
  
 Thanks again!


----------



## duo2sonic

theboss1978 said:


> Hi, guys!
> 
> What about the sound signature of DA-10? I have B&W P7 which are mostly neutral headphones with a little bit of warm. I'm lookin' for something which improve the sound, of course, but give more warm, live and joy to the listening.
> 
> ...




Have you thought about the Centrance HiFi-M8 ? It's quite a bit more money, but I use mine for my B&W P7 and it is fantastic. Same with my Sennheiser HD650. I love this amp/dac a lot and I wonder how the Denon compares.


----------



## theboss1978

Thanks, I'll check it too!


----------



## audionewbi

I spend a good time yesterday with Clayx M, Denon DA-10 and HUGO. When I compared the three side by side I get why the other three cost more. And yes I do like HUGO bass as it felt much more controlled and tighter(using dita truth IEM ) but that feeling is only apparent when I am doing a direct head to head listening. 
  
 This morning I got up and grabbed my very picky Fitear F111 and used the NWZ A-15 line out and connected all and used the Amp section of Denon and I can say without doing a direct comparison with HUGO there is nothing lack lasting with Denon sound as an entire package. 
  
 I am just grabbing the denon DA-10 more than my other gears as it sounds very good and it is very convenient all in one package. 
  
 I am a little disappointed as I cannot use my NWZ A15 walkman with it. I hope the future revision can include the optical in.


----------



## Sound Eq

audionewbi said:


> I spend a good time yesterday with Clayx M, Denon DA-10 and HUGO. When I compared the three side by side I get why the other three cost more. And yes I do like HUGO bass as it felt much more controlled and tighter(using dita truth IEM ) but that feeling is only apparent when I am doing a direct head to head listening.
> 
> This morning I got up and grabbed my very picky Fitear F111 and used the NWZ A-15 line out and connected all and used the Amp section of Denon and I can say without doing a direct comparison with HUGO there is nothing lack lasting with Denon sound as an entire package.
> 
> ...


 

 well i think i must retract my impression that the da10 can drive the audeze with authority, as it does drive it good, but when i listened to tracks i know well I noticed that my audeze lcd2 needs more power, and now is the search for a portable amp to drive the audeze, or i might just buy another headphone and this is the toughest part for me, as I love rich warm sound with great bass as I listen to edm music.
  
 don't get me wrong the da10 can drive the aduze but when i increase the volume at high gain some strange things happen to the audeze. I am sorry i gave a too fast impression about pairing it with audeze, also there is lack of bass with audeze when using the da10. Also I am starting to notice something about the mids in da10 that I can't explain what it is but their is a dam frequency there that is a little annoying, so I am starting to notice the denon is not a warm sound signature, also the soundstage is not big compared to the hugo. don't get me wrong guys I am avery critical person, and for me i don't know why at first i like things then the more i listen to things i start noticing shortcomings
  
 now my question is their a way to know the curve of the da10, as something in the mids is not right, also the bass is loose too
  
 i am staring maybe to question this purchase


----------



## audionewbi

sound eq said:


> well i think i must retract my impression that the da10 can drive the audeze with authority, as it does drive it good, but when i listened to tracks i know well I noticed that my audeze lcd2 needs more power, and now is the search for a portable amp to drive the audeze, or i might just buy another headphone and this is the toughest part for me, as I love rich warm sound with great bass as I listen to edm music.
> 
> don't get me wrong the da10 can drive the aduze but when i increase the volume at high gain some strange things happen to the audeze. I am sorry i gave a too fast impression about pairing it with audeze, also there is lack of bass with audeze when using the da10. Also I am starting to notice something about the mids in da10 that I can't explain what it is but their is a dam frequency there that is a little annoying, so I am starting to notice the denon is not a warm sound signature, also the soundstage is not big compared to the hugo. don't get me wrong guys I am avery critical person, and for me i don't know why at first i like things then the more i listen to things i start noticing shortcomings
> 
> ...


 
 I knew sooner or latter you will have trouble with the LCD 2.0. 

 I notice those issue (which needs a very intimate familiarity with both the music and headphone/IEM one is using). I notice those issues only with my dynamic IEM but with my balance armature I have no problem.
 The short comings are there but we are talking about a $400 vs $2500. As I see it we have $2100 left over budget to find a magical headphone and if one wishes an amp to pair with denon.
  
 I tried denon line out using the fixed line out setting,the other day feeding wagnus. Results were very positive however it defeats the all in one purpose for me so I dont need it.
  
 The loss bass will be noticeable for me only in direct listening against HUGO, beside that it will be very hard to tell. 
  
 For me the purchase is worth it as I can turn on my NAS, connect my ipod and enjoy my music library. It also can go out with me as I really do not want to carry the HUGO around is it is too darn expensive.
  
 End of the day it comes down to personal preference. I felt the same way as you are feeling right now about AK120 however with denon I feel a lot more at ease as it is a lot better than AK120 and it cost less than half of it.


----------



## Sound Eq

audionewbi said:


> I knew sooner or latter you will have trouble with the LCD 2.0.
> 
> I notice those issue (which needs a very intimate familiarity with both the music and headphone/IEM one is using). I notice those issues only with my dynamic IEM but with my balance armature I have no problem.
> The short comings are there but we are talking about a $400 vs $2500. As I see it we have $2100 left over budget to find a magical headphone and if one wishes an amp to pair with denon.
> ...


 

 do u think i should add a portable amp, and which one i need to add some bass to this, my only problem is i love the audeze so much, and i tried the sennheiser and mad dogs but nothing comes close to audeze, and every other headphone i read about bass issues , i wanted to wait for the oppo pm3 but it seems it has a neutral sig. so now what is missing more power and bass for my audeze. which is the best portable headphone amp with great bass boost when boost is needed. i had the ifi ican it did not the job well, it seems i must venture into more expensive headphone amp territory
  
 i was now also wondering if i should have waited for the oppo HA 2 as it has also bass boost


----------



## audionewbi

sound eq said:


> do u think i should add a portable amp, and which one i need to add some bass to this, my only problem is i love the audeze so much, and i tried the sennheiser and mad dogs but nothing comes close to audeze, and every other headphone i read about bass issues , i wanted to wait for the oppo pm3 but it seems it has a neutral sig. so now what is missing more power and bass for my audeze. which is the best portable headphone amp with great bass boost when boost is needed. i had the ifi ican it did not the job well, it seems i must venture into more expensive headphone amp territory
> 
> i was now also wondering if i should have waited for the oppo HA 2 as it has also bass boost


 
  
 If you want something portable for LCD 2.0 try Centrace HiFiM8, it is the only one that can have enough power to drive it. Adding an amp to Denon might help but it will make it very large set to carry around.
  
 I personally never owned any of Audeze products and I cannot give you any personal feedback. Hope you find what you are looking for.


----------



## Sound Eq

i was wondering if i connect my iPod to denon by using a cck cable and plug it to the denon as usb dack will i get better quality than using the iphpne input into the denon


----------



## audionewbi

That is really up your own hearing. In use the cck because I use dsd files.

Sadly I could not use my walkman with denin da-10 and that lef me disappointed.

To me they cck and dedicated ipod connection sound the same. 

I am also quiet happy with denon as an amp alone.


----------



## Sound Eq

well i use upsampling on onkyo for lower bit rate files and i have many 24/192 files and i can't recall if i am correct that only cck does support such bit rates but not the iOS input in denon, thats why i was wondering if i will benefit from using the usb input dac in  denon
  
 somehow i found using the usb dac in denon fives better controlled bass but maybe i am wrong


----------



## Sound Eq

audionewbi said:


> I knew sooner or latter you will have trouble with the LCD 2.0.
> 
> I notice those issue (which needs a very intimate familiarity with both the music and headphone/IEM one is using). I notice those issues only with my dynamic IEM but with my balance armature I have no problem.
> The short comings are there but we are talking about a $400 vs $2500. As I see it we have $2100 left over budget to find a magical headphone and if one wishes an amp to pair with denon.
> ...


 

 can u please write more comparison between calyx m and da10 in means of sound signature differences i was a lot curious about calyx m


----------



## Prophet293

sorry to interrupt the convo, but where did you guys buy the DA-10 and how much for? The only amazon site that's selling it at the moment is amazon.jp and I'm not sure they do international shipping?


----------



## audionewbi

Shipping forwarding site

http://pricejapan.com/front/e_good_info.php?code=1436&category=10


----------



## audionewbi

sound eq said:


> can u please write more comparison between calyx m and da10 in means of sound signature differences i was a lot curious about calyx m


ill do my best but cannot promise anything at this stage.


----------



## audionewbi

It is such a shame that I cannot use the digital out of my A15 walkman with DA-10. I find myself craving more to DA-10 while I am HUGO. Not it does not make DA-10 technically better and for a lot HUGO is better sounding but for me DA-10 is more what I want and I am okay with it.
  
 What is stop me enjoying it is the apple environment. 
  
 Denon seem to placed all the key focus on Denon sounding great with apple products than with computers. As is it will be a lot of hassle getting it work with andriod products.


----------



## Sound Eq

i think setting the gain to high is adding to my disliking of the sound signature i am getting, so on normal gain the sound sig is good but it does not suffice the audeze, so now i will try to find if i add an alo rx mk3 will solve this, as when i set the gain to high in denon it just is noisy and everything falls apart, i am starting to miss my chord hugo


----------



## audionewbi

I am an iem user so I am lucky as I don't need much gain.

I only had an issue with one of my iem, rest so far has been working on my side.


----------



## Sound Eq

audionewbi said:


> I am an iem user so I am lucky as I don't need much gain.
> 
> I only had an issue with one of my iem, rest so far has been working on my side.


 

 i really can't believe u put this close to chord hugo, no way is it near the chord in sq department the chord high is miles better


----------



## hi-hi-fi

it should not come as a surprise at all - because from the very start - denon has profiled the da-10 as a partner especially suitable for apple products and denons own headphones. everything is not suitable with everything. simple as that.


----------



## Sound Eq

hi-hi-fi said:


> it should not come as a surprise at all - because from the very start - denon has profiled the da-10 as a partner especially suitable for apple products and denons own headphones. everything is not suitable with everything. simple as that.


 

 i thought since the denon headphones have great bass and are on the warm side, i thought that this will be sound sq in da10 but not at all its like flat, neutral and not to my liking unfortuently thats why i am selling it on the forum.
  
 maybe i should start looking at hifiman daps as they say they have warm,and bass signature


----------



## theboss1978

I'd buy one of Hifiman's DAP but they don't accept ALAC files and not all of them could be used as DAC-USB.


----------



## Dogmatrix

DA10 has arrived 
 Hot from Price Japan in a big brown box wrapped in industrial strength bubble wrap sealed in a plastic bag
  
 In the box
The case contraption is interesting and would protect the unit and attached source in a bag but I will never use it as it is too bulky
 Included cables are $2 items and a little disappointing at this price level but they work , I have better cables on hand so again I won't use them
 Various pieces of paper warranties warnings quick guide etc 
 Cd ROM version of the excellent user manual
  
 DA10
 Made in China serial # 5XX 
 Build quality is OK , body is all plastic with a thin veneer of alloy top and bottom which is a little sharp at the edges . Switches have a positive solid feel , there is quite a bit of free play in the volume knob due I think to the on/off function but it works fine and the feel is good
 Lights are refreshingly dim no search lights here 
 Cable connections are all firm and positive
  
 In use everything worked as expected , with my Ipod classic attached and the selector set to Ipod the classic came to life automatically when the DA10 was activated . With my Clas there was quite an elaborate start up sequence so this simpler routine is welcomed .
 Connection to my laptop required a driver download which went without incident
 Once again plug in , select USB , switch on and DA10 magically appears in my audio devices list
  
 HD650
 First session around three hours with the HD650 from my favorites selection on the Classic
 Power is good driving the HD650 easily on low gain 
 Sound is neutral with a slight mid bump there is a very pleasant sense of air in the upper mids similar to the HD650 on an OTL amp
 Range and stage are both normal for the HD650 separation and definition are better in the high range 
 Overall I think the DA10 pairs well with the HD650 although it is possibly a little light at the low end
 AL32 processing seems to work well with my 16/44 collection on the Classic giving a soft smoother more tube style signature compared to the Clas
  
 More soon


----------



## Prophet293

HD650 is 300ohm which means the DA-10 should drive the HD800 just as well? (same 300 ohm)


----------



## Dogmatrix

The 800 has a more radical swing with peaks near 600 
 800 is up for session 2 this evening I will elaborate tomorrow


----------



## Prophet293

dogmatrix said:


> The 800 has a more radical swing with peaks near 600
> 800 is up for session 2 this evening I will elaborate tomorrow


 
  
 That's good news!! I have a HD800 and I drive it with my Woo Audio WA2 amp and Denon DA-300USB as a DAC, sounds amazing.


----------



## audionewbi

Going to try it with hd600 tonight.


----------



## Prophet293

I'm going to wait til they list the DA-10 on amazon.com, it cost way too much as an import.


----------



## audionewbi

prophet293 said:


> I'm going to wait til they list the DA-10 on amazon.com, it cost way too much as an import.


 
 Wait a bit longer, once you see these on amazon US I can promise you that importing them will be far cheaper. Japan prices tend to fall rapidly. Right now they are on 380 AUD, that is 32 less than what I paid(which includes postage and forwarding cost).


----------



## audionewbi

audionewbi said:


> Going to try it with hd600 tonight.


 
 Pairing it with HD600 and I am very happy with it ! Need to spend the weekend. Maybe I was to quick to judge it pair with headphone.


----------



## Prophet293

I was just wondering, if I was to use the DA-10 as a DAC only, how do I bypass the amp section? Use aux out?


----------



## audionewbi

prophet293 said:


> I was just wondering, if I was to use the DA-10 as a DAC only, how do I bypass the amp section? Use aux out?


 
 i dont think it is a true bypass, it is just sets the line out to 700 microvolt. Set the switch to fixed out before you turn the device on and all set.


----------



## Dogmatrix

Session 2 HD800
 This time I am running direct from Itunes on my laptop all Apple Loss-less and the same eclectic favorites mix as last time . Connection is via an Audio-Quest Forrest .75m cable and the charge switch is set to off
  
 Evidently the HD800 does require more power than the HD650 where the 650 was happy on low gain the 800 not so much . Low gain was sufficient to attain good levels from the 800 but I was able to hit the stop without bursting an eardrum so decided to engage high gain . In pure delivery terms I could not pick any difference between high and low once volume was matched but I stuck with high as I was not comfortable with the pot close to its limit on low
  
 Frequency response is again neutral but this time the bump has moved up into the treble region . Bass is clean and crisp and a little more extended than the 650 . Mid range is lush and smooth with a very natural and organic timbre to voices and brass in particular , strings also seem very accurate in tone . Stage is wide and stable with clear separation
  
 Sitting back and enjoying the show the little Denon gives an entertaining and engaging performance . Look more closely and the smoke begins to clear revealing the strings and mirrors behind the illusion . Compared to my balanced SS rig the Denon lacks weight and control and the eargasmic euphonious glory of my custom SET amp is also absent . Pushed hard that treble bump begins to become harsh and sibilance creeps in 
 However this is the HD800 a headphone that has sent many a dac and amp limping away in shame , it is the great revealer 
  
 Summing up , the Denon does a remarkably competent job of driving the HD800 . As a portable set in a hotel or during a power out it is a genuine hi end option but it lacks the refinement of a full scale rig .


----------



## dabotsonline

audionewbi said:


> Denon does not have optical and it is limited to 24/48 and can act as an amp. It seems like they are so confident about their tuning that they believe it should not matter as they will win due to how good they tuned it...
> 
> Here is a brief introduction: http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/topic/20140909_662329.html


 
  
 The translation of that article says,
  
 "when the iPhone / iPod connection it is up to 48kHz / 24bit."
  
 I presume that that refers to when the included 30-Pin to USB or Lightning to USB cables are used. However, is this also the case when the Camera Connection Kit or Lightning to USB Adapter are used, in the same way that the Cypher Labs Theorem 720 DAC and Centrance HiFi-M8 are both still limited to 96/24 and not 192/24? @audionewbi or anyone else: can you confirm? The following resources make no mention of it:
  
 Product Information Sheet:
 http://assets.eu.denon.com/DocumentMaster/MASTER/Denon_DA-10_EN01.pdf
  
 Quick Start Guide:
 http://assets.eu.denon.com/DocumentMaster/MASTER/DA-10EM_ENG_QuickStartGuide_IM_v00.pdf
  
 Instruction Manual:
 http://assets.eu.denon.com/DocumentMaster/MASTER/DA-10EM_ENG_CD-ROM_IM_v00.pdf
  
 Thanks for the comparing the Denon DA-10 against the Chord Hugo. I would also like to see it compared against the Sony PHA-3 (as someone else has said) and PHA-2, as well as the upcoming OPPO HA-2.


----------



## audionewbi

dabotsonline said:


> The translation of that article says,
> 
> "when the iPhone / iPod connection it is up to 48kHz / 24bit."
> 
> ...




With cck and onkyo app it can support DSD 5.6 no issue at all. 

I have stopped using the da-10 and will return to it in a months time to see if I still feel the same about it.


----------



## Dogmatrix

Session 3
 Shure SE215
  
 Lap top out Itunes Lossless Forest usb charge off
  
 Presentation mostly neutral with a slight lift in bass and fall in treble
 Compared with the previous trials with headphones the DA10 sounds more comfortable with an iem there is more body and dynamics to the sound
 Stage is more intimate and a little compressed in terms of separation
 Bass is strong and detailed but lacking control , mids have the smooth organic nature which seems to be present regardless of headphone , treble is a little recessed and fatigue free 
 Stronger bass and weaker treble has a nice synergy with the DA10 it is very relaxing and pleasant so I may follow this line for a while
 Volume is good on low gain with around 50% useful range a touch of imbalance at very low levels and absolutely noise free 
  
 [size=13.1428575515747px]As much as the Denon was a little "outclassed" by the HD800 I feel the opposite is true here with the shures lacking the ability to render detail making the whole a bit midfi . However the AL32 processing is creating a very analogue natural sound that is quite unique and I am enjoying it very much [/size]


----------



## dabotsonline

audionewbi said:


> With cck and onkyo app it can support DSD 5.6 no issue at all.
> 
> I have stopped using the da-10 and will return to it in a months time to see if I still feel the same about it.


 
  
 Thanks for the swift response, @audionewbi , but what about with 24-bit/192kHz FLAC / ALAC / WAV / AIFF?


----------



## audionewbi

dabotsonline said:


> Thanks for the swift response, @audionewbi
> , but what about with 24-bit/192kHz FLAC / ALAC / WAV / AIFF?


 Yes all that s supported too.


----------



## Dogmatrix

Session 4
 Audio Technica ATH-IM70
  
 Back to the Classic it's more convenient and I am not picking up any sq difference between sources
 Presentation is very neutral with a treble lift that is only evident at very high volume . Common to all the phones I have tried so far it is the treble region that begins to fail first becoming harsh and increasing in sibilance . I find this interesting as the amp section appears to favor the upper frequencies generally . All this is at volume levels far above normal or safe so it is not a problem just interesting . Although it may become an issue when line out is used I guess it depends on how much of the amp circuit is employed in fixed out mode .
  
 Bass is well controlled , tight and fast , mids display the now familiar smoothness and air , treble is clean and sharp . Stage is wide for an iem and well defined with clear separation . Fine detail is lost in complex passages but quite good otherwise .
  
 Things are looking up , the IM70 and DA10 seem well matched my only criticism is in volume control with only around 25% usable range on low gain . A favorite hate of mine I can't understand why manufacturers can't or won't build an amp with true low gain . I really don't need a portable unit that can drive the HD650 on low gain , I need one that gives a decent level of control with the sensitive iem's that now proliferate in the market .
  
 Protests aside I could live with this combo long term the IM70 is good enough to let much of the AL32 magic shine through and its natural signature compliments the DA10 amp section well .


----------



## audionewbi

Appreciate your update, I also do not understand why cant they implement a three gain setting. I too cannot use the knob below that range as simply the imbalance is too much.
 The magic of DA-10 is the Al32 algorithm which from what I read is Digital to digital to analog kind of processing which to my ear is only working when used with the ipod entry. When used as a pure DAC the AL32 seems to be bypassed. Or to my ears when I use the ipod as a source the sounds is more smoother and is not really dependent on the files I feed it but when I use it as a pure DAC GI=GO sort of a thing.
  
 I hope DA-20 has optical in, better amp section and still maintains the same DAC section, it will be a true winner.
  
 I realize many folks might disagree and think I might be hyping things up but honestly I have tested a lot of different things and this is the only DAC/amp solution at a reasonable price that can actually delivery. I was disappointed that its micro USB section requires 5 volt to wakeup and work and that meant I could not use my A-series walkman but I guess cant get it all. 
  
 My major criticism is I dislike apple oriented approach to things, as I see it apple is no longer interested in the ipod lineup and it is really risky to make such devices. DA-10 is really suited to be paired with ipod classic loaded with redbook albums and with that gone we are stuck with the 64 GB ipod unless you are willing to spend large sum of money for the 128 GB ipod products.


----------



## Dogmatrix

It is a pity the Sony line is not compatible I was considering going that way myself .
 Apple appears to have abandoned the audiophile market but perhaps will pick up again next year , I think their failure to update the Ipod line this year may be a good sign .
 Otherwise it does leave the market for the DA10 quite narrow as they lock out many of the daps on the market. I do believe all digital inputs are passed through the AL32 processors , going from Denons flow chart and the fact that they function as low pass filters for the dac .


----------



## audionewbi

dogmatrix said:


> It is a pity the Sony line is not compatible I was considering going that way myself .
> Apple appears to have abandoned the audiophile market but perhaps will pick up again next year , I think their failure to update the Ipod line this year may be a good sign .
> Otherwise it does leave the market for the DA10 quite narrow as they lock out many of the daps on the market. I do believe all digital inputs are passed through the AL32 processors , going from Denons flow chart and the fact that they function as low pass filters for the dac .


 
 When I try to listen to a DSD the file sounds different when I use the cck+microUB+onkyo vs onkyo+micro USB. Maybe the onkyo downsample does not do a proper job? Or maybe I am just hearing things.
  
 I am just interested to see what Denon comes up with next.


----------



## Dogmatrix

To be honest I really don't understand what is going on inside the AL32 gizmo all this interpolation and algorithm stuff is a bit of a mystery . I am most confused by the differential output of the Burr-Brown dac which I assume is analogue passing into the AL32 where it seems it is converted back to digital up-sampled and reconverted to analogue in its improved smoothed waveform . It would make more sense to me if the Burr-Brown output was 32bit digital but then it wouldn't be a dac and it wouldn't be differential . 
 Anyway it sounds good to me , session 5 is underway with the ASG 2 I will post a short impression tomorrow


----------



## Dogmatrix

Session 5
 Aurisonics  ASG-2
  
 Still sticking with the classic and my favorites list
  
 Presentation is neutral and remains so regardless of volume level
 Bass is strong and full bodied with clean accurate detail , mids are full of detail and open , treble is rich and clear
 Stage is wide and stable with clear separation which holds well in complex passages
  
 I run my ASG-2 with the ports 30% open which judging from other posts in the Aurisonics threads is allot , most people seem to run either closed or slightly open
 For me they sound right at 30% , however when combined with poor amplification the bass turns feral becoming boomy and monotone
 No problem with the DA10 everything is precisely controlled , beautiful timbre from the double bass and each drum in the kit is easily picked out
  
 Smooth rich detail from the AL32 chips is coming through strong with this iem I appear to have found a "Goldilocks" combo , synergy is excellent
 Once again the volume range is a small annoyance being the worst so far at near 20% , fortunately the imbalance in my unit is very small and the range is workable with a delicate touch
  
 Great combo , the DA10 really shows off its potential for high quality audio with an iem of this level


----------



## Prophet293

I wonder if any of you could get your hands on a DA300USB and do a direct comparison, AFAIK the DA-10 is basically a portable version  of DA300USB with higher gain.


----------



## Dogmatrix

prophet293 said:


> I wonder if any of you could get your hands on a DA300USB and do a direct comparison, AFAIK the DA-10 is basically a portable version  of DA300USB with higher gain.


 
 Can't help with a comparison unfortunately
 With the DA10 rolling out to worldwide dealer networks you should be able to audition one locally soon


----------



## Dogmatrix

Session 6
 Alessandro MS2i
  
 Ipod Classic - DA10
  
 Presentation is a little bright on this one
  
 Bass has good quality but is a little distant , mid as always out of the DA10 is excellent , treble is clear and well defined but stronger than I like
 Stage is good with clear separation  
 Volume range is good with around 50% available on low gain
  
 For the first time I don't like the synergy with this pair it's just too hot . When I increase the volume to bring the bass dynamic up the treble smothers everything . Out of my Woo WA7 I find the MS2i very enjoyable , the treble is strong but controlled . I think it is a case of the DA10 and MS2i both sharing similar signatures tending towards bright . When either is paired with something with a darker character the result is neutral , together it is super nova
  
 Over the 3 hour session my ears adjusted to the sound struggling to normalize but there is just too much treble energy so it's never going to work for me . Pity because they really look good together


----------



## Dogmatrix

Session 7
 HiFiMan HE500
  
 Ipod Classic - DA10
  
 Presentation neutral at moderate volume tending to bright as volume increases
  
 Bass is a problem it lacks punch and definition I know the HE500 can produce better , mid range is super smooth and full of AL32 character , treble is clean and clear no sign of harshness or sibilance even when pushed hard
 Stage is wide and stable separation is poor in the bass better in the higher frequencies
 Volume range available 50% on high gain 90% on low
  
 Not expecting great things out of this pair I was a little surprised as to how good it was . The character of the AL32 processor is very strong here with a unique very old school sound reminiscent of vinyl , almost like an early gramophone with a wooden horn . Mid range and treble are super smooth , full and rich . Clearly the DA10 lacks the power to drive the HE500 fully and the bass presentation suffers for it . With moderate volume the bass is passable but as the volume rises it is left behind becoming muddy and weak . High volume is achievable however with no sign of clipping so I think the bass could be lifted with some eq although the quality would likely be poor . 
  
 Overlooking the bass deficiencies which I have probably made seem worse than they are , this is a good pair . Much like the HD800 the DA10 can drive this headphone but when compared to desk top systems it is found lacking


----------



## Sound Eq

for gods sake how can we fix the uncontrolled bass i am tired of using eq in onkyo hf player, and when i try it gets worse
  
  
  
 I keep suffering from shouty highs and uncontrolled poor bass and by far this da-10 is on the top which is causing such thing,
  
 i am starting really to question if all is just an illusion unless someone can point which which dac/amp should one buy as i am tired of spending so much money on gear and getting disappointed
  
 i bought the chord hugo which was amazing but felt the bass need more presence but at least it was controlled 
  
 with the da-10 i feel the bass is not right something about the low end is not right, and i feel shouty mids and highs
  
 now i really need to find an alternative
  
 of course the da-10 did not drive the audeze lcd2 rev2 at all
  
 as for the iem i am using the shure 846 and i am not liking the sound i am getting at all poor controlled bass and shouty highs and mids
  
 something in the sound signature i am getting from da-10 is not right and its about everything from bass to highs
  
 i need to sell this asap i swear i am enjoying the sound of my iPhone 6 plus with my shure 846 much more than the dam sound i get from the da-10


----------



## audionewbi

Maybe the cause is your gears having poor synergy.

Try.getting the objective 2 amp, if you don't like what you hear out of it chances are you don't like the se846 and lcd2.

The only thing wrong with da-10 is that the bass is not as tight as I heard it from Hugo and maybe the volume knob could have been better implemented.


----------



## Sound Eq

i loveed the audeze lcd2 with chord and bi amped with fiio to give it more bass boost
  
 now i am back to ground zero, i really need a great dac/amp with great bass impact that is controlled and lush and no shouty mids or highs
  
 as for the shure 846 now i was thinking u might be right sometimes i love it and sometimes i hate it as it has good bass with the right gear but can sometimes get shouty, which iem is the best with no shouty highs or mids and greta big bass
  
 as for headphones, i have been struggling which other headphone to buy as many blamed my criticism when i used the chord with audeze to the audeze but when i bi-amped it with the if to bass boost it it was just great so I thought i like the audeze but i needed a better amp with bass boost to get more bass from the audeze
  
 these days i plan to buy a headphone but i read first good thinks then bad things follow in reviews, I was considering th900, as its a great closed can but i read also bad reviews about it, i just wish for a headphone that has the audeze lcd2 sound sig with better bass impact as the highs and mids are so great.
  
 so any advise on closed headphones, and the bad thing i can't try things before i buy as here where i live stores don't carry most of what is recommended here and you can't try anyway


----------



## Dogmatrix

Session 8
 Etymotic ER4s
  
 Ipod Classic - Da10
  
 Presentation neutral all the way top to bottom 
  
 Bass clear , crisp and full of detail although perhaps not as prominent as some may like , mid-range again very detailed , smooth and clear , treble detail again and oh so clean
 Stage is intimate a little compressed but the clarity and detail gives good separation
 Volume range is fair at around 40% low gain
  
 In-case you didn't get it I think there is good detail in this pair , actually spectacular detail . If not for the brain probe ergonomics of the ER4s this would be the best match I have tried with the DA10 . Sound quality is without flaw regardless of volume , no noise or distortion anywhere . One thing that stands out in particular this time is the nature of the background , it is black but not cold and empty like some dac/amps it has a strange warm embracing presence . Unique in my experience to the DA10 there seems to be something where there is nothing , its like an extra sense 
  
 I like this pair very much the accuracy of the ER4s allows the DA10 to really show off


----------



## Prophet293

u guys have idea when the DA-10 is coming to amazon in the states?


----------



## Dogmatrix

prophet293 said:


> u guys have idea when the DA-10 is coming to amazon in the states?


 
 I thought I saw a schedule for world roll-out in November somewhere however one of the reviewers in Japan received a unit with a dry solder joint on one of the caps and there have been issues with volume pot imbalance being inconsistent . So they may be reviewing QC issues before the big roll-out
 To answer you're question . I have no idea


----------



## Sound Eq

did any of you consider comparing this to ifi idsd micro, if anyone can tell me what is the differences are in sound signature


----------



## Bo Bo

Ive listened to the DA-10 now for 48 hours with wav files ripped from cd in itunes and itunes own aac files on the latest ipod touch 64 gb with B&W P7 and seenheizer momentum. I also played with ipod classic 120 gb but it was awfull compared to the touch and i would guess any iphone 5 or better. I have EQ turned on as the sound is very aggresive from the DA-10 on its own and EQ works wonders in almost any mode, ive landed on latin ??But its really great with eq on and high gain you can play soo loud as you only experience at concerts and it still sounds sweet. its one crazy gadget, the little wonder amp.


----------



## Dogmatrix

bo bo said:


> Ive listened to the DA-10 now for 48 hours with wav files ripped from cd in itunes and itunes own aac files on the latest ipod touch 64 gb with B&W P7 and seenheizer momentum. I also played with ipod classic 120 gb but it was awfull compared to the touch and i would guess any iphone 5 or better. I have EQ turned on as the sound is very aggresive from the DA-10 on its own and EQ works wonders in almost any mode, ive landed on latin ??But its really great with eq on and high gain you can play soo loud as you only experience at concerts and it still sounds sweet. its one crazy gadget, the little wonder amp.


 

 Welcome to HeadFi Bo Bo and "Sorry about you're wallet"
 Are you using the usb input or the aux with the Ipods


----------



## Bo Bo

Thank you and yes it hurts but i think by now its worth the money easily. I mean im really jaw dropping, open mouth like, all the time and i fear for my ears really.maybe you can get something better but not for what the DA-10 costs but i think its only for the newest apple tech and yes i use the data line no aux.


----------



## Prophet293

just a heads up, the DA-10 is now on amazon (3rd party selling) for $370.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/DA10SPEM-Portable-headphone-amplifier-correspondence/dp/B00N2NM2D0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1416825614&sr=8-1&keywords=denon+DA-10


----------



## Sound Eq

i don't know why when i wanna use my iPod with cck and micro usb cable to the denon da10 i get many times an error message that says this accessory uses too much power, the reason why i like to use my iPod that way because i like to listen 192/24 files without being down sampled, but this error is annoying the heck out of me


----------



## audionewbi

I don't get this error, do you use onkyo app?


----------



## Sound Eq

yeah i do use the onkyo app, this error is really weird why it happens to me, knowing my cck is bought from apple and is an original one


----------



## Dogmatrix

sound eq said:


> yeah i do use the onkyo app, this error is really weird why it happens to me, knowing my cck is bought from apple and is an original one


 
 Is the charge switch in the off position ?


----------



## Sound Eq

dogmatrix said:


> Is the charge switch in the off position ?


 

 yes it is off should it be on on


----------



## Dogmatrix

sound eq said:


> yes it is off should it be on on


 

 No , off is good
 I thought it would be , just looking for an easy fix
 This is very strange , to my understanding the DA10 should not be drawing any current other than the signal with the charge switch in the off position


----------



## Dogmatrix

Actually after a rethink and a look at the manual
 The DA10 will draw a charge current through the micro usb port when it is switched off regardless of the position of the charge switch
 So try switching the DA10 on first then the Ipod cck rig next


----------



## Sound Eq

dogmatrix said:


> Actually after a rethink and a look at the manual
> The DA10 will draw a charge current through the micro usb port when it is switched off regardless of the position of the charge switch
> So try switching the DA10 on first then the Ipod cck rig next


 

 thanks for trying to help me
  
 i don't know its inconvienent to always take off the rig from the case to turn on the da first then connect the cck to the iPod, i don't know if there is another solution


----------



## audionewbi

There are custom cables you can purchase but not really a cheap solution.


----------



## Sound Eq

audionewbi said:


> There are custom cables you can purchase but not really a cheap solution.


 

 can u tell like which and is there a very short one to use to fit nicely, 
  
 i am surprised that only me is experiencing this error, so all of u don't experience this error message


----------



## audionewbi

sound eq said:


> can u tell like which and is there a very short one to use to fit nicely,
> 
> i am surprised that only me is experiencing this error, so all of u don't experience this error message


 
 I do but not with Denon DA-10, with certain setups I do. I need to first ask the maker if he has any intention of making anymore microUSB to cck as it was not an easy task based on what I have been told. maybe Rudi can provide more answer as he was one of the first who got it.


----------



## Sound Eq

audionewbi said:


> I do but not with Denon DA-10, with certain setups I do. I need to first ask the maker if he has any intention of making anymore microUSB to cck as it was not an easy task based on what I have been told. maybe Rudi can provide more answer as he was one of the first who got it.


 

 so guys are u also getting the same message error , sometimes it works and when i turn it off and the iPod off i sometimes get the message that the accessory attached uses too much power


----------



## audionewbi

sound eq said:


> so guys are u also getting the same message error , sometimes it works and when i turn it off and the iPod off i sometimes get the message that the accessory attached uses too much power


try charging your ipod overnight.


----------



## Sound Eq

audionewbi said:


> try charging your ipod overnight.


 

 does anyone else experience this
  
 and if so what is the most convenient way to overcome this issue without always taking the gear out of the case or taking cables out out the devices and replugging them


----------



## Pippin76

So far I've been very, very happy with the DA-10 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Now, I'm thinking of getting the Hiiman HE400i sometime in the future, does anyone here have an idea if the Denon can satisfactorily drive it?


----------



## Dogmatrix

pippin76 said:


> So far I've been very, very happy with the DA-10
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The Da10 did a reasonable job with the HE500 , lack of power showed a little in the bass but it was satisfactory
 From my experiments I think the Da10 pairs best with easily driven phones with a signature leaning towards the dark side


----------



## Pippin76

dogmatrix said:


> The Da10 did a reasonable job with the HE500 , lack of power showed a little in the bass but it was satisfactory
> From my experiments I think the Da10 pairs best with easily driven phones with a signature leaning towards the dark side


 

 Thanks for the response,I see the HE500 has about the same specs as the HE400i so I suppose I could expect similar results.
  
 Any HP you would recommend? I have thought about the NAD HP50 or maybe the Philips Fidelio X2.


----------



## Dogmatrix

pippin76 said:


> Any HP you would recommend? I have thought about the NAD HP50 or maybe the Philips Fidelio X2.


 
 From the full size headphones I have tried the best was the Senn HD650 and the worst the Alessandro MS2i
 I bought the DA10 for use with iems and I think that is what it is best at
 The shure SE215 is a good match for example and if you want the same synergy with better quality I can recommend the Audio Technica AT-IM70 or if you really want to go upmarket the Aurisonics ASG-2 (discontinued) is excellent
 I think the DA10 has quite a distinct signature it's part of what makes it special but it means it will not match well with some phones and be spectacular with others
 Only way to be sure is to take it to the store and try as many cans as you can


----------



## audionewbi

Is it me or is this unit winning point is its amp/dac working combined, amp alone not quiet there.


----------



## Dogmatrix

audionewbi said:


> Is it me or is this unit winning point is its amp/dac working combined, amp alone not quiet there.


 

 I think you are right , for me the amp alone is ok but nothing special it has clearly been designed to complement the dac section
 I think the twin AL32 chips make it really stand out from the increasingly large crowd of dac/amps on the market


----------



## J@nik

I very like Denon DA-10. As someone mentioned sooner it is natural/a bit warm sound which I prefer. Very easy to listen. I tried DA-10 with B&W P7, Thinksound On1, Hifiman HE-400i, AKG K550, UE4Pro (which aren't on photo).
  

  
  Sorry for quality of this photo was taken with ip4...


----------



## rymcymcym

Hi,
 I can not find Windows driver for DA-10 USB dac. On the CD included in the box there's only manual but no driver. On the Denon website the same situation... Where did you get the driver from ?


----------



## Pippin76

rymcymcym said:


> Hi,
> I can not find Windows driver for DA-10 USB dac. On the CD included in the box there's only manual but no driver. On the Denon website the same situation... Where did you get the driver from ?




Had the same problem. But you just need to download the USB driver associated with the DA-300. Works flawlessly


----------



## rymcymcym

Thanx, works like a charm  Rep 4U


----------



## Pippin76

No prob, glad to help


----------



## RotaryPhones

at 4 times the cost of Fiio DAC/AMP, does the Denon sound 4 times better?


----------



## Dogmatrix

rotaryphones said:


> at 4 times the cost of Fiio DAC/AMP, does the Denon sound 4 times better?


 

 Hard to quantify 4X better but the Fiio doesn't do idevices or upsampling
 HeadFi stuff doesn't really work in a cost benefit multiple kind of way HD800 aren't 4X as good as HD650
 It's about finding gear that does what you want and works with other gear
 Oh and if know one has already , welcome to HeadFi and sorry about you're wallet


----------



## Prophet293

dogmatrix said:


> Hard to quantify 4X better but the Fiio doesn't do idevices or upsampling
> HeadFi stuff doesn't really work in a cost benefit multiple kind of way HD800 aren't 4X as good as HD650
> It's about finding gear that does what you want and works with other gear
> Oh and if know one has already , welcome to HeadFi and sorry about you're wallet


 
 I been refreshing amazon.com everyday for a price drop lol, it's still $399 atm.


----------



## RotaryPhones

prophet293 said:


> I been refreshing amazon.com everyday for a price drop lol, it's still $399 atm.


 
  
 a price drop will at most drop it down to $299? that's too much!
  
 I'm waiting for a price mistake of maybe $149?     
  
 Although rare, it does happen.   Last year, I bought a $1000 generator for only $180 because of Amazon.com's price mistake.   I bought two, actually.  The problem with buying portable generators is that if you buy one, the power in you neighborhood will not go out.  (just like 5 years ago after a big snowstorm.... I went out and bought a $1250 snowblower with self-propelled wheels.... my town has not seen more than 1 inch of snow since then... I think they have me to thank?


----------



## Dogmatrix

prophet293 said:


> I been refreshing amazon.com everyday for a price drop lol, it's still $399 atm.


 

 $350 at Price Japan


----------



## Prophet293

dogmatrix said:


> $350 at Price Japan


 
  
 I looked through the whole website, they don't have any Denon products, maybe they took it off / sold out?


----------



## Dogmatrix

prophet293 said:


> I looked through the whole website, they don't have any Denon products, maybe they took it off / sold out?


 
 Headphone department
  
http://pricejapan.com/front/e_good_info.php?code=1436&category=10


----------



## Prophet293

dogmatrix said:


> Headphone department
> 
> http://pricejapan.com/front/e_good_info.php?code=1436&category=10


 
 $430 Australian after shipping, same as amazon, I'm going to wait.


----------



## Dogmatrix

prophet293 said:


> $430 Australian after shipping, same as amazon, I'm going to wait.


 

 Didn't realize you were in Oz
 Works out quite a bit more if you use PayPal because of fees and PJapan only accept payment in US dollars via PayPal so that bites too
 Maybe the price will come down a little after Xmas is over but I doubt it will drop far


----------



## audionewbi

prophet293 said:


> $430 Australian after shipping, same as amazon, I'm going to wait.


 
 I paid 543 AUD, waiting is always a wise thing to do.


----------



## Pippin76

I have a problem here, I hope some of you can help me 
  
 I would like to watch movies with headphones on fed by the Denon. But sound and video is out of sync (sound a fraction delayed). Everything is fine on my spekers through my Asus Esence One (I blew the headphone amp on that one, don't ask 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).
  
 Is this driver related or can I fix it myself?


----------



## audionewbi

Certainly a driver issue. See if you have the same issue on a different pc.

Try a different program like vlc and see if that fixes it. 

Make sure the movie itself is not out of sync.


----------



## Pippin76

audionewbi said:


> Certainly a driver issue. See if you have the same issue on a different pc.
> 
> Try a different program like vlc and see if that fixes it.
> 
> Make sure the movie itself is not out of sync.


 

 Thanks for your response! You were right in that it ws a driver issue. 
  
 I have JRiver 20 and disabling their new WMD driver seems to have solved the problem. I suppose it makes sense that there would be a conflict with the Denon driver.


----------



## audionewbi

Glad it fixed the issue for you.

I have been really impressed by DA-10. It is my main laptop dac. I have a access to alot of more unfavourably priced option but my ears kee gravitating towards da-10.

I paid full price for it when it was selling for 536 aud including shipping forwarding and shipping prices and i never regret paying that much. Right now it sells for much cheaper and it is truly a great deal.

Sadly it misses a lot of what is now industry standard like optical in but I have tested few gears with all those fancy things which failed to deliver the sound for me.


----------



## Pippin76

Audionewbi, now that you're here, as it were, do you know the output impedance of the DA-10? My brand new Fidelio X2s have a low impedance and I'm told a suitable amp for it should have as low an impedance as possible. Thanks!


----------



## Dogmatrix

pippin76 said:


> Audionewbi, now that you're here, as it were, do you know the output impedance of the DA-10? My brand new Fidelio X2s have a low impedance and I'm told a suitable amp for it should have as low an impedance as possible. Thanks!


 

 If it sounds ok don't worry about output impedance
 While it is true that very high output impedance can alter frequency response it may be a positive change
 Output impedance effecting  "electrical damping" is a myth in my opinion , while it does exist in technical terms the effect in headphone drivers at listenable levels is too small to measure


----------



## audionewbi

As dogmatrix sais said if it sounds okay don't worry about it.

Impedance mostly effects balance armature drivers more than dynamic.


----------



## Prophet293

Mike hifiguy528 just released a video on the DA-10 on youtube and he said the sound is not that good for the price:
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZjW5frkj5w


----------



## HiFiGuy528

prophet293 said:


> Mike hifiguy528 just released a video on the DA-10 on youtube and he said the sound is not that good for the price:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZjW5frkj5w


 
  
 The most disappointing part is the volume pot and even "normal" gain was too high for my Sony XBA-Z5 because you have to turn the volume knob beyond 10 o'clock for both channels to balance.  I have to try more headphones, but so far I am disappointed by the performance.  I wish it sounded as good as Denon DA-300usb.  Love the design though.  
  
 To be fair, it is a first gen product for Denon so I think the next will be a lot better.  Took Sony three times to get it good (PHA-3).


----------



## Prophet293

hifiguy528 said:


> I wish it sounded as good as Denon DA-300usb.


 
  
 My perception is that the DA-10 is basically a portable version of the DA-300, I guess I was wrong?


----------



## Prophet293

mike, how does the DA-10 measure up against the Sony PHA-2?


----------



## nghy9700

Hello Audionewbi
 Sony Pha-2 and Denon DA-10. Which one do you like ? Thanks


----------



## audionewbi

I don't own the pha-2.


----------



## nghy9700

Thanks for respond . Do you still like Denon DA-10 ?


----------



## audionewbi

nghy9700 said:


> Thanks for respond . Do you still like Denon DA-10 ?


 
 I do as a DAC/AMP, not quiet as an amp alone due to the volume and gain issue.
  
 However when I have my laptop/tablet on the go I take Denon DA-10 with me as it is light to carry and sound good to me. Sadly the gain is little too much at low however once you know what gear to use with it honestly it is a good sound device.

 However perhaps it is wise to wait as there are many newly release competition to Denon and as a consumer just wait and see which one is bound to out do the other. With time Denon DA-10 should reach the 30,000 Yen which in my view is a steal. However it lacks certain functionality that its current competitors have and therefore might not make it a steal for those who need those features (eg balance connection).


----------



## HiFiGuy528

audionewbi said:


> I do as a DAC/AMP, not quiet as an amp alone due to the volume and gain issue.
> 
> However when I have my laptop/tablet on the go I take Denon DA-10 with me as it is light to carry and sound good to me. Sadly the gain is little too much at low however once you know what gear to use with it honestly it is a good sound device.
> 
> However perhaps it is wise to wait as there are many newly release competition to Denon and as a consumer just wait and see which one is bound to out do the other. With time Denon DA-10 should reach the 30,000 Yen which in my view is a steal. However it lacks certain functionality that its current competitors have and therefore might not make it a steal for those who need those features (each balance connection).


 
  
 Well said.  (Y)  Hey, does the micro-USB drop out when you tilt the unit while playing?  Mine does....
  
 I really liked the DA-300usb and was hoping the DA-10 would be a portable version of it.  I guess I'll see what the next version would bring.  
  
 Sony is a good example.  PHA-1 was so so... PHA-2 got better, PHA-3 they are getting serious.  Perhaps PHA-4 would be killer.


----------



## nghy9700

Thank you very much for your advice


----------



## Prophet293

hifiguy528 said:


> PHA-1 was so so... PHA-2 got better, PHA-3 they are getting serious.  Perhaps PHA-4 would be killer.


 
 What makes the PHA-3 better than the PHA-2 other than its balanced output (which most headphones don't support) and a new design? The thing is ridiculously expensive, it's $730 on pricejapan.com right now.


----------



## Dogmatrix

hifiguy528 said:


> Well said.  (Y)  Hey, does the micro-USB drop out when you tilt the unit while playing?  Mine does....
> 
> I really liked the DA-300usb and was hoping the DA-10 would be a portable version of it.  I guess I'll see what the next version would bring.
> 
> Sony is a good example.  PHA-1 was so so... PHA-2 got better, PHA-3 they are getting serious.  Perhaps PHA-4 would be killer.


 

 No drop out on my unit , my volume imbalance is very small also and the gain is ok with my ASG-2 although it is very close and if the imbalance was slightly higher it would be a problem
 Clearly the output from the DA-10 line is inconsistent I have read reports from Japan of varying degrees of volume imbalance from unit to unit and some problems with bad solder joints on the caps
 While I am very happy with my unit and enjoy the sound very much it is a bit hard to recommend on the grounds you may get a good one
 Don't know why low gain seems to be too hard for many manufacturers when it comes to sensitive iems
 My Woo WA7 handles everything perfectly via its 1/8th and 1/4 jacks and it doesn't have a gain switch


----------



## iozz

I have a strange thing appearing on screen when using my iPhone Onkyo HF Player app with this Denon DA-10 and 24/96 FLAC files... On the upper left side of the screen, it's written "PCM 48kHz", what does it mean? Is my file downsampled to 48kHz?
  

  
I plug the Denon DA-10 using the lightning adapter provided with the DAC/amp on my iPhone6+.
When playing 24/44, 24/48 or 24/88 FLAC files, I have just "PCM". Whenever I play a 24/96 FLAC file, I have "PCM 48kHz".
 
Can anyone enlighten me on this?


----------



## smartfocus00

Hello,
  
 I don't know if you have figure out the way to connect A15 to external DAC like DA-10 or not. I've found the way to and would like to share with you all.
  
 I own a ZX1 and have successfully connect my ZX1 to mini USB port of DA-10 through a WMC-NWH10 cable. The sound comes from DA-10 which proved it runs as an external DAC for ZX1. By following my instruction others who owned an A15,16 have tried this way and it did works.
  
 1. You need to prepare the following items:
 a. WMC-NWH10 cable
 b. USB HUB with external power supply(most important)
  
 2. Be sure the power is properly supplied to USB HUB
  
 3. Turn off A15, Connect A15 to the data input port of USB HUB(which supposed to connect with computer) through WMC-NWH10.
  
 4. Connect DA-10 USB DAC input port to any port of the USB HUB, then turn on the power of DA-10.
  
 5. Turn the A15 on.
  
 Now the A15 should be able to detect DA-10, and only worked as digital data source. The sound should now come form DA-10.
  
 Enjoy


----------



## cyrusgod

iozz,
I believe when connecting using a simple lightning to use connector you are limited in the signal that the DAC can receive. You need to connect with the apple camera connection kit to get a signal into the micro USB port (that they list for USB-DAC) to get the full res signal. 
Hope that helps.


----------



## iozz

Thanks for the advice cyrusgod. So for my iphone6+, is this this one I need to buy?


----------



## cyrusgod

No problem. That's the one!


----------



## iozz

Silly question, but is there a DAC/amp able to read HD files from an iPhone without having to go though the Camera Connection Kit?
 I really like the sound of this Denon DA10, but I'd like to have something portable, and adding the CCK + USB cable, it's not particularly handy.


----------



## dunaxing

Hello everyone~


 


I got a hd650~~Plan to buy one of them  (micro idsd or da-10)


 


Any suggestions for me?


----------



## J@nik

NAD VISO HP50 & Sennheiser HD600 >>> Denon DA-10


----------



## J@nik

dunaxing said:


> Hello everyone~
> 
> I got a hd650~~Plan to buy one of them  (micro idsd or da-10)
> 
> Any suggestions for me?


 

 Hi, I have HD600 which has similar character as HD650. Denon DA-10 & HD600 is really good "combo". I usually have volume on low gain / half knob.


----------



## dunaxing

j@nik said:


> Hi, I have HD600 which has similar character as HD650. Denon DA-10 & HD600 is really good "combo". I usually have volume on low gain / half knob.


 
  
 Thank you~~ I worry about da10 lack of power. That may effect the bass. But I really like denon .
 No chance compare. Just a little bit caught in the middle...


----------



## J@nik

Hmm "about da10 lack of power / effect the bass" I don't think is true. I compared da10 to asus essence xonar one mkii muses edition which has really good amp section and do not think there is some lack of power. But it is up to you. I would advice to check by yourself and compare with some other device.


----------



## dunaxing

j@nik said:


> Hmm "about da10 lack of power / effect the bass" I don't think is true. I compared da10 to asus essence xonar one mkii muses edition which has really good amp section and do not think there is some lack of power. But it is up to you. I would advice to check by yourself and compare with some other device.


 
 Thanks again~~I will look for opportunities to experience it before I make decision~~


----------



## Trager

For those who were waiting for the price to come down, Touch of Modern has the DA-10 on sale for $314 today.
  
https://www.touchofmodern.com/sales/kef-america-denon/denon-da-10-portable-dac-headphone-amplifer


----------



## gelocks

audionewbi said:


> *It is such a shame that I cannot use the digital out of my A15 walkman with DA-10.* I find myself craving more to DA-10 while I am HUGO. Not it does not make DA-10 technically better and for a lot HUGO is better sounding but for me DA-10 is more what I want and I am okay with it.
> 
> What is stop me enjoying it is the apple environment.
> 
> Denon seem to placed all the key focus on Denon sounding great with apple products than with computers. As is it will be a lot of hassle getting it work with andriod products.


 
  
 Awwww!!
 I was going to use it for exactly that!! Of course, I need to order the NWH10 cable first...
  

 Quote:


smartfocus00 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I don't know if you have figure out the way to connect A15 to external DAC like DA-10 or not. I've found the way to and would like to share with you all.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wait, so it actually works with the Sony then!!??!
 Too bad it doesn't work direct...
  
 Are there any other DAC/Amps that work with the Sony out?
 I think the new Oppo Dac/Amp seems to be working well... any others?
  


trager said:


> For those who were waiting for the price to come down, Touch of Modern has the DA-10 on sale for $314 today.
> 
> https://www.touchofmodern.com/sales/kef-america-denon/denon-da-10-portable-dac-headphone-amplifer


 
  
 Yeah, ordered from there because description says it comes with a set of Denon DH-7100s!!!!!!!!


----------



## bimmer100

Yea, Touch of Modern has a deal that says the Denon AH-D7100 headphones are included.
 this is the EXACT ad below:
 "
 Denon's *DA-10 Portable DAC/Headphone Amplifer* delivers sonic performance on par with premium audiophile separates, in a compact package equipped with a high capacity 3200 mAh rechargeable lithium-ion battery, for hours of listening enjoyment, anywhere on-the-go. Housed in an elegant aluminum chassis with a solid aluminum alloy volume knob, the DA-10 is equipped with exclusive Denon technologies to deliver the ultimate music listening experience. *Featuring state-of-the-art digital-to-analog conversion, the DA-10 is equipped with the reference class Burr-Brown PCM-1795 32-bit high resolution DAC chip, which can handle multiple sampling frequencies all the way up to 192 kHz, and bit depths up to 24 bits. *The DA-10 is also able to decode high resolution DSD audio tracks (the type found on SACDs), and features the ability to decode 2.8 and 5.6 MHz DSD files.

 Denon's exclusive AL32 technology uses our proprietary DSP digital filtering, upsampling and processing algorithms to upconvert and noise-shape high resolution digital audio to 32 bits, delivering dramatically improved low level detail and vanishing distortion. *Equipped with the reference class Burr-Brown PCM-1795 DAC chip, the DA-10 features premium audiophile construction, including dual master clock crystals, each optimized for specific sampling frequencies and located directly adjacent to the DAC chip on the audio board for maximum jitter reduction. *The digital section features asynchronous USB signal handling for the highest stability and sound quality, and the DA-10 is equipped with Denon's exclusive AL32 advanced DSP digital filtering and noise shaping, *providing the highest possible resolution* with today's high definition music tracks. Also included is the AH-D7100 headphone, an incredible accessory in gorgeous mahogany. These over-ear headphones are professionally tuned by Denon’s studio acoustic engineers to be acoustically pure and feature 50 mm free edge nano fiber drivers to maximize sound quality and efficiency.


 
 





Product Details
 — Advanced AL32 Processing 
 — DAC Master Clock Design 
 — 192kHz/32bit D/A Converter Used in Denon High-Class SACD Player 
 — Dual Clock for 44.1kHz and 48kHz 
 — Discrete Current Buffer for Headphone Output 
 — USB-A Input (For iPod/iPhone/iPad) 
 — USB Micro-B Input (For Computer) 
 — USB Micro-B Input Supports 192kHz/24bit and DSD (2.8MHz/5.6MHz) Files 
 — 3.5 mm Analog Input 
 — Fixed Analog Output To Connect To Your Hi-Fi System As External DAC 
 — Portability Design and Functionality for outdoor use 
 — Up to 7 Hour Run Time Rechargeable battery 
 — Includes, Carrying Pouch, Maghony-Inlaid Headphones* 
 — Micro USB Cable (Micro B), Lightning USB Cable, 30 Pin USB Cable, Stereo Mini Plug Cable are Supplied"*

  

  

  

*it's mentioned and described clearly that a pair of AH-D7100 headphones are included with this. Not the typical typo of pricing. It's a great deal considering Denon no long makes this DAC and doesn't even have it on their website. I contacted Denon directly to ask them about touch of modern. They are not an authorized dealer according to Denon. Denon also states that they WILL NOT warranty anything they sell. They said it's a great deal including the headphones with the DAC. I actually purchased this deal the first day it was released. I've bought dozens of items from touch of modern and they have never done me wrong. The customer service has been great. Albeit I didn't realize how good of a deal this was until later. I just knew Denon makes great stuff and a set of headphones packaged with the DAC sounded like a fair deal. Later I looked up what headphones they mentioned and noticed they are pretty darn nice headphones. I'm not surprised this deal sold out yesterday. I'm excited to get a pair of headphones with this DAC. Warranty or not. Denon will not support this unauthorized dealer. And it says NO RETURNS. :/*

*Hopefully they are new items and not some refurbs.*


----------



## Trager

Not to be an unscrupulous buyer, but I figure a couple of things could happen with this order. Best case, you get a DA-10 and a set of AH-D7100s and they are fine and everyone is happy. Not so good, you get one of each but there is some damage, in which case you could probably use some of the money saved on the deal to have Denon repair them out of warranty. Worst case, you only get a DA-10, in which case, considering the copy says that the order includes a set of AH-D7100s, I'm pretty sure that almost any credit card agreement in the world will give you an out if you want to use it. Most CC companies would stand behind you wanting to return the item since it was misrepresented in the copy. 
  
 My experiences with TOM in the past have been really positive, though, so I'm really hoping it doesn't come down to the third case.


----------



## bimmer100

Well, so far i've had no reply from TOM. I've left 3-4 messages and 2-3 emails.
 I've contacted denon 3 times and just waiting to hear from TOM.


----------



## bimmer100

they took the page off their website entirely... hmm...


----------



## gelocks

Check the "Deals" thread. A representative chimed in and let us know that it was indeed an error on their part. Headphones are NOT included!


----------



## drbluenewmexico

gelocks said:


> Check the "Deals" thread. A representative chimed in and let us know that it was indeed an error on their part. Headphones are NOT included!


 

 it was TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE as suspected that TOM would iinclude 1200$ headphones for free with
 a 400$ list price dac amp.....the annoying part is that it took their customer service dept 5 days to admit it
 (despite several deal members writing letters of inquiry to customer service for TOM.)
 was an error publicly and retract the offer, during which time many head-fi.org members ordered the too good
 to be true deal.  what will happen to their orders?  this is an ethical issue now, not just a business issue....


----------



## drbluenewmexico

Well I went ahead and got an open box DA 10 on Amazon just to spite TOM and hear the
Damn thing Terrible out of the box severe channel imbalance tone off harsh
But overnight BAM it all burned in and now through iPad retina playing Tidal 
And 400i phones is best portable sound I have ever heard!!!!!

Wow! Blues is alive classical smooooth and EDM rocks DENON really nailed it
Sounds like their best CD players costing thousands warm grat soundstage vocals to die for
Great pace and tone. Amazing gear!!!!!!! So good it almost made me cry ....
But I'm dancing in my seat instead ....can't wait to hear some high Rez files on this.


----------



## Pippin76

I'm enjoying it too, I really can't understand why there isn't more attention around it.
  
 Perhaps Denon isn't "Boutique" enough


----------



## KT66

Denon are one of my favourite value audio makers, from the DL160 cartridge to the D2000 headphones, they have superb quality.
  
 I would love to see something like this that would work with portable DAPs like DX50 and HM901
  
 For years now I have been asking for a DAP that acts as just a transport, only a line out and digital out
 preferably USB not optical/toslink and no headphone stage.


----------



## kawaivpc1

Does this unit compare favorably with Geek Out 1000, Oppo HA-2, iBasso D55?


----------



## musikaladin

...did anybody around here try the Denon DA-10 DSD in combination with the Denon AH-MM400?


----------



## DanMUC

If anyone is interested in Germany, if you buy this AMP/DAC in combination with the AH MM 400s on Amazon, you get 63 Eur off the price - so from 328 Eur down to 265.


----------



## DanMUC

In fact I would be curious to hear from anyone who has tried this DAC and the iBasso D Zero Mk II who would be willing to compare the two.


----------



## drbluenewmexico

Good news the Shure volume control kit line controller works perfectly with Da 10 to fix channel imbalance
And tame over sensitivity oh low impedence headphones like 400i electromagnetica works great no sound quality drop at all. 15$ on Amazon perfect!!!.


----------



## drbluenewmexico

musikaladin said:


> ...did anybody around here try the Denon DA-10 DSD in combination with the Denon AH-MM400?




Goof question. All DA10 ads feature pix of mm400 phones with it
MM600s don't work well at all. Too loud cause if low impedence

Love to hear from an phone whose heard MM400s w DA10'nnn


----------



## doctorjazz

drbluenewmexico said:


> Good news the Shure volume control kit line controller works perfectly with Da 10 to fix channel imbalance
> And tame over sensitivity oh low impedence headphones like 400i electromagnetica works great no sound quality drop at all. 15$ on Amazon perfect!!!.




Hey, Blue, is this the controller you're talking about?

http://www.amazon.com/Shure-EAADPT-KIT-Adapter-Combines-Attachable/dp/B001P5HL3S/ref=sr_1_fkmr2_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1427568048&sr=8-1-fkmr2&keywords=shure+volume+control+kit+line+controller

(actually think I have one laying around, got it with an old Shure SE500 I got ages ago used, on which the cable frayed and not usable, but should still have the controller somewhere).
I don't get how it helps the volume/sound issues.

As an aside, got this at Blue's suggestion, was slow to warm to it initially, a bit too warm for me, have been using it from my iPad3 fixed out into a Cambridge Audio Kloss 88CD, not the highest end speaker set up but was well received in it's time as a table top clock radio/cd player. Have to say I'm really impressed at how much better my music, either streamed radio (WFMU radio streaming, anyone? Great station!), or lossless streaming from TIDAL, is sounding with it connected at my office. Will have to play with it more...


----------



## doctorjazz

So, was using the Da10 with my Hifiman 560, nice combo, clean, open sound, good body to instruments. Tried it with the Senn 650, not a good match, they both are a bit rich in the mids, the sum causes the sound to be muddy (a bit, mind you, able to listen, but wanted to go back to the Hifiman almost immediately). System matching, system matching, system matching (like in Real Estate), the Denon seems to me will not mate well with all headphones.


----------



## Sound Eq

with lollipop on my sony z ultra I am not able to use the denon da 10
  
 now what ?


----------



## cyrusgod

Are you using the correct input switch position on the side?  Does the unit work with other sources such as PC?  Is the USB cable faulty (have you tried another cable).. Does the unit light up when you turn it on?


----------



## Sound Eq

cyrusgod said:


> Are you using the correct input switch position on the side?  Does the unit work with other sources such as PC?  Is the USB cable faulty (have you tried another cable).. Does the unit light up when you turn it on?


 

 yes I am using the usb dac input on denon da 10 and put the slider to the side of the usb dac in the denon, tried 2 cables and nothing
  
 with iphone it works and also on my computer
  
 its only with my android phone sony xperia z ultra could it be the lollipop in the sony, this is so strange I thought the da 10 works with android too


----------



## Sound Eq

I think maybe in general the a 10 does not work with android phones looking at the denon connections, as I see that uonly can connect the da10 to android devices via aux and not usb, dam I did not realize this before I bought it
  
 I thought I would be able to use any phones and take a signal from a phone to the dac


----------



## cyrusgod

That is an odd one. Sorry I can't really be of much assistance. I had an Xperia Z2 before and I remember something about it being one of the first android phones to support USB DAC out or some such thing. Perhaps you need a certain kernel mod for your phone if it's not natively supported. That's a pain. Hope you work it out or someone can be of more assistance.


----------



## doctorjazz

I have an HTC One M8, have tried many otg cords and software, have never succeeded connecting it line out that way.


----------



## gelocks

Yeah, I don't think it supports OTG! 
 So I'll probably sell mine soon. Too bad though since I actually like it when connected to a PC! Heck, I even like it when double-amping.


----------



## vnmslsrbms

I just got this, and I heard the strange exaggerated highs sometimes with high gain.  I did a quick unfair comparison with it driving my HD800's with my Oppo HA-1, and it clearly was outclassed.  I don't think the Oppo drives it properly either, but I'm still searching on that end.  
  
 It's worked great with my iPad and computers.  I can't get it to work with my note 2 which I was going to retire to be paired with this to be my portable gig.  Plan ruined!  I should have read through the thread first.  I have Android 5.1 installed on it, and it works with my uDac that I actually quite enjoy but it looks strange connected to a smartphone.  When I switch it to the DA-10, set at 
 USB, No Charge (tried charge too), Variable Output, Low Gain (tried high too)
 it acted like it was connected, but it didn't make any noise even though the phone was playing.  I have the DAC and audio routing enabled in the developer options as well as Boeffla sound.  
  
 Meanwhile I'm trying to either figure out how to play Hi Res files from my iPhone (hooking up with the lightning to USB cable I've read, but what software would I use for the playback?  Maybe the free TEAC or Onkyo players?  My iPhone is out of commission right now so I can't try.  
  
 So all in all, I'm please with this DAC.  It's resolving and I feel has good performance across the frequencies except the highs where it could too peaky/scratchy for some.  I don't really feel it's warm though?  Maybe for a solid state affair it's warm (good thing), but it's not warm like a tube amp.  Now if I can just figure out what my ideal setup would be.  Good thing I did get 128GB with my iPhone.  I also think like audionewbi this pairs great with my IE800s.


----------



## vnmslsrbms

sound eq said:


> I think maybe in general the a 10 does not work with android phones looking at the denon connections, as I see that uonly can connect the da10 to android devices via aux and not usb, dam I did not realize this before I bought it
> 
> I thought I would be able to use any phones and take a signal from a phone to the dac


 
 Do you have the usb audio routing option set to the right setting in the Android OS?  It's in the developer settings near the bottom I believe.  The guy I got it from says he knows Sony Z2 and Z3 both work.


----------



## Sound Eq

i got my z ultra to work the denon but i have to use otg cable
  
 i thought micro sd to micro sd would be enough but no u need an otg to make it work
  
 i am really liking it with my shure 846 wow i love it


----------



## vnmslsrbms

Good for you!  My Samsung won't work with it even if I have the correct settings and OTG cable.  It'll be paired with my iPhone instead.  But I prefer to have them separate so if I want to browse the web I don't have to hold a brick in my hand.  I'm not sure how to make this work.  I think I'll just buy a cheap Sony phone like a T2 ultra to pair it with.  I usually carry a briefcase or backpack around anyway.  When I don't I'm with my wife and I don't think she would appreciate me just listening to music!
  
 Anybody also have the OPPO HA-2?  I'm seriously thinking about getting one to compare.  It has greater compatibility with Android phones I think, and is slimmer (by alot).


----------



## cyrusgod

vnmslsrbms said:


> Meanwhile I'm trying to either figure out how to play Hi Res files from my iPhone (hooking up with the lightning to USB cable I've read, but what software would I use for the playback?  Maybe the free TEAC or Onkyo players?  My iPhone is out of commission right now so I can't try.


 
 In terms of using the iPhone for Hi Res.  I use Onkyo HF Player with the (paid for option) HD playback.  Bear in mind that without the apple official lightning to usb adaptor you will not be able to output the high res even if the software and file is willing... Then plug a basic usb cable from the apple usb adaptor to the Denon and.. hey presto.. awesome audio!


----------



## vnmslsrbms

Thanks.  I'm trying the VLC player.  I'll spring for the Onkyo one after I play around with it a little more to make sure I like the interface.  Got the Lightning to USB from Denon only.  Is that not capable of hi-res playback?  
  
 BTW I got the HA-2, and the DA-10 definitely sounds different.  I mainly was still interested to see how they would drive the HD800.  To me the HA-2 is a little more melodic, it's warmer, the highs aren't as piercing.  Fuller vocals too.  I didn't use the bass boost.  It sounded bloomy to me on, so I left it off.  The DA-10 has a higher resolution in the treble, but is prone to a really sharp treble.  But when I went to the HA-2 I felt like some highs were missing.  I was really hoping to keep just one of them, but for now both will stay since they are pretty different.  
  
 Also the biggest differentiator for me are two things: portability and compatibility.  The HA-2 is both more portable (so thin and well built) and also works great with my note 2.  I'm still disappointed in the DAP offerings so am going to go the phone+dac/amp route for now.  The HA-2 fits that bill (since I'm pairing it with Android for storage reasons).  It's basically still a DAP to me since I still have my main phone too.  The DA-10 is a good bit chunkier, but I also like the look too.  
  
 I still don't think either of them are really good at driving the HD800.  The volume is there, but the presence is not.  At times it felt a bit hollow.  I switched to my HA-1 and it was a major improvement (as it should be).  I don't get this feeling as much with my IE800s.  I still need a better amp than the HA-1 though.


----------



## Sound Eq

vnmslsrbms said:


> Good for you!  My Samsung won't work with it even if I have the correct settings and OTG cable.  It'll be paired with my iPhone instead.  But I prefer to have them separate so if I want to browse the web I don't have to hold a brick in my hand.  I'm not sure how to make this work.  I think I'll just buy a cheap Sony phone like a T2 ultra to pair it with.  I usually carry a briefcase or backpack around anyway.  When I don't I'm with my wife and I don't think she would appreciate me just listening to music!
> 
> Anybody also have the OPPO HA-2?  I'm seriously thinking about getting one to compare.  It has greater compatibility with Android phones I think, and is slimmer (by alot).


 
 make sure u connect the otg cable to your phone  and the micro usb--to usb to ur da 10
  
 i did by mistake do the opposite silly me now everything works


----------



## vnmslsrbms

Thanks but I did connect the right side since it works with other DAC/AMP but not the DA-10.  Somehow Sony has a higher voltage or something not sure.  So far I know Sony and Apple works.  Anything else?


----------



## Sound Eq

vnmslsrbms said:


> Thanks but I did connect the right side since it works with other DAC/AMP but not the DA-10.  Somehow Sony has a higher voltage or something not sure.  So far I know Sony and Apple works.  Anything else?


 
 lg g3 works too
  
 i am sure something u doing is not right as i tried it with htc m8 too


----------



## vnmslsrbms

Really.  Maybe it's just my phone?  Since I installed custom firmware?  Do you have a Samsung you can try it on?  But my Oppo HA-2 works just fine with my Samsung.  The more I listen the more I like the DA-10 than the HA-2 though, so that's a problem for me.  Even my nuForce uDAC works LOL.


----------



## Sound Eq

i dont have a samsung
  
 try to go stock rom on ur samsung and see if it works


----------



## cyrusgod

Sorry to be a spoil sport but the only thing that works on the iPhone to all the higher res playback is the http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD821ZM/A/lightning-to-usb-camera-adapter
The denon included cable doesn't pass through the higher res so it's been unused in the box for me


----------



## doctorjazz

Hmmm...I want able to get it to work with my HTC M8, tried a few cables and software. Works fine with my iPad 3, that's what I use it with. The Onkyo player doesn't seem to exist for the iPad3, though (at least couldn't find it in the Apple app store).


----------



## vnmslsrbms

I think it does, you just have to change the filter from "iPad only" to "iPhone only"


----------



## vnmslsrbms

cyrusgod said:


> Sorry to be a spoil sport but the only thing that works on the iPhone to all the higher res playback is the http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD821ZM/A/lightning-to-usb-camera-adapter
> The denon included cable doesn't pass through the higher res so it's been unused in the box for me


 
 Thanks I will go buy one next time I visit the Apple store which should be Monday!


----------



## Sound Eq

what battery life r u getting on the da-10


----------



## doctorjazz

vnmslsrbms said:


> cyrusgod said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry to be a spoil sport but the only thing that works on the iPhone to all the higher res playback is the http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD821ZM/A/lightning-to-usb-camera-adapter
> ...




Didn't realize the included cable didn't pass high rez files...but, I pretty much use it to stream TIDAL from my iPad3. Use my Pono to play hi rez on the go, think it does fine with the DA conversion, though.


----------



## vnmslsrbms

How do you know what the phone or dap is outputting?


----------



## doctorjazz

Beats me!


----------



## Sound Eq

what battery life u get on the da 10


----------



## Pippin76

sound eq said:


> what battery life u get on the da 10


 
  
 I only ran it all the way down once, just after I got it. I have since used it probably about 7 hours solid (ie, in one sitting) without the battery dying. But I almost always have it connected to the computer so that it starts recharging right when I switch it off.
  
 Are you having problems in this department?


----------



## cyrusgod

vnmslsrbms said:


> How do you know what the phone or dap is outputting?



Well it depends on the software. The Onkyo player can display that information. Of course the Denon hardware does not display it at all.


----------



## vnmslsrbms

Yeah that makes sense.  I did some research afterwards.  I think I'll get the Onkyo player for iOS and also the USB Audio Player Pro for Android to try things out.


----------



## cyrusgod

Nice idea, it seems to work well and is not that expensive in the grand scheme of things..


----------



## marios_mar

Does the DAC convert DSD to PCM or does the chip natively play the DSD files?


----------



## audionewbi

A quick update, I have spend a good time now and I can say with confident the headphone out on this think for all IEM is ****. Forget about it ,if you want a stand alone dac/amp move on. However having said that as a DAC alone this thing rocks! I have been using it with wagnus and it works rather nicely.


----------



## Tennessee

sound eq said:


> i got my z ultra to work the denon but i have to use otg cable
> 
> i thought micro sd to micro sd would be enough but no u need an otg to make it work
> 
> i am really liking it with my shure 846 wow i love it


 

 how on earth did you managed to get it work?
 with my xperia z ultra he gives no sound out..?
 Probably USB Audio Player, but then no wimp/spotify


----------



## doctorjazz

I have usb audio player for my HTC M8, can't get otg to work, period!


----------



## Tennessee

doctorjazz said:


> I have usb audio player for my HTC M8, can't get otg to work, period!


 

 With this app i can play my flacs and it's amazing quality, but i want to play my wimp hifi too, and that i believe wont work


----------



## doctorjazz

Must be either the M8 or Verizon, doesn't connect to anything via OTG


----------



## vnmslsrbms

It's very fickle, but I love the sound quality.  It works better with iDevices.  But I've grown to like separating my phone with my player (backup phone+DAC/AMP).  Holding that big block to my ear just isn't that appealing.  Wish it was smaller.


----------



## Zelo-Balance

looks small. A nice choice for portable.


----------



## vlach

700mV using fixed line out? OMG...that's less than the output of an iPod which is typically 1V!!! That's very weak


----------



## vlach

audionewbi said:


> i dont think it is a true bypass, it is just sets the line out to 700 microvolt. Set the switch to fixed out before you turn the device on and all set.




700mV using fixed line out? OMG...that's less than the output of an iPod which is typically 1V!!! That's very weak


----------



## Ivanov

vlach said:


> 700mV using fixed line out? OMG...that's less than the output of an iPod which is typically 1V!!! That's very weak


 

 Hello,
  
 I'm kinda new to this portable headphone-amp thing. What does that mean exactly "700mV" ?? Does it affect the quality/volume of the headphones?


----------



## vlach

ivanov said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm kinda new to this portable headphone-amp thing. What does that mean exactly "700mV" ?? Does it affect the quality/volume of the headphones?




Well, according to audionewbi, the line level output is 0.7V, which is very weak and defeats the purpose of using an external amp/DAC.

When set to 'fixed' output and used as a DAC, the line level output of the DA-10 is equivalent to maxing out the headphone out volume. Again, based on what I read in this thread.

For example, a typical source like a CD player outputs 2V at the line level.

I believe the Astell & Kern DAPs also output 2V for line level output. iPods are around 1V.

My Leckerton UHA-6 outputs around 1.5V when used as a DAC and is sufficient to drive the HE-500 quite well.

So yes, 0.7V is ok for iems, however your iPod or smartphone can probably do better. Shame.


----------



## doctorjazz

Can't tell you what the numbers mean, but I never had trouble using the line out to drive another amp. Haven't used it with hard to drive headphones, prefer the DA to the amp.


----------



## vnmslsrbms

It drives IEMs just fine, and the sound is much better than a straight iPhone 6 plus out.  Not like night and day but there are improvements in most areas.  My IE800's don't require going past halfway on low gain and SE846's even less than that.  The DAC is also better than the iPhone's.  I have tried driving my HD800's on high gain, and that works, but I wouldn't recommend it.


----------



## audionewbi

Problem is the channel imbalance and poor volume dial implementation.


----------



## Ivanov

Waw, thanks for the replies, guys! You saved a lot of time (and money)  Maybe Denon will have more improvement with the next model.


----------



## Sound Eq

i know its a stupid question how can i use my da 10 so that it connects to my desktop and then to my home apmplifier ( yamaha ) home amplifier that are rcas and optical inputs


----------



## vnmslsrbms

That's doable but not great I would imagine.  You might find a reasonable desktop DAC that has a regular power supply.  Denon even makes a desktop version that you can consider.  But if not, you connect your desktop via USB to the DA-10 to the home amp via RCA (Y splitter to RCA), set the volume output to variable, then amp to speakers via speaker wire.  If your yamaha has a optical input and speaker outputs,  it's actually a receiver.  Then you would do Computer>USB>DA-10 (set the volume output to fixed)>RCA >Yamaha Receiver>Speakers.


----------



## doctorjazz

Basically, depends if you are using the amp/volume controls of the Denon (use variable), or bypassing them and using the volume of the main system (use fixed). If you have the option to bypass the Denon volume (either the amp is an integrated, as stated above, or you have a preamp), I'd go that route...find the DAC portion much better than the amp portion of the DA-10.


----------



## Sound Eq

doctorjazz said:


> Basically, depends if you are using the amp/volume controls of the Denon (use variable), or bypassing them and using the volume of the main system (use fixed). If you have the option to bypass the Denon volume (either the amp is an integrated, as stated above, or you have a preamp), I'd go that route...find the DAC portion much better than the amp portion of the DA-10.



 


the reason why i want to use my da 10 is because its sitting there and not being used anymore after i bought the ifi dsd, so i was wondering i have an edirol 4fx external usb sound card ( http://www.roland.com/products/ua-4fx/ ) that supports only 24/96, so i thought why not use my da 10 with my desktop and home theater amplifier as my desktop is connected to my home theater and tv for music, i do not know if that is a good idea or not, can you please tell me if it is

so currently my desktop is connected by usb to edirol 4fx and then from edirol to my yamaha rx-v357 receiver optically 

so i am sorry to ask again how can i utilize my da 10 with my home theater, and cables do i need as i am very bad in setting things up, can you provide links to the cables i need and i shall do my set up

finally is it better to remove the edirol and replace it with the da 10?


----------



## doctorjazz

sound eq said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > Basically, depends if you are using the amp/volume controls of the Denon (use variable), or bypassing them and using the volume of the main system (use fixed). If you have the option to bypass the Denon volume (either the amp is an integrated, as stated above, or you have a preamp), I'd go that route...find the DAC portion much better than the amp portion of the DA-10.
> ...




OK, I'm not sure anyone can really answer the question...certainly not me, I don't know the external usb card you are using. I'd guess the Denon, connected to your receiver (fixed) woulsound better, but you may have different sound preferences than I do, you may be using a fine external card. In the end, you are there, I am not. It's not all that complicated, I'd say you should try it for yourself, see which one YOU like better! (is it the 24/96 limitation that bothers you? That is only one of many factors that influence the sound. Some folks now prefer old R2R dACS, which only go to 16/44, to the newer ones that do higher resolution, for a natural, organic sound they are supposed to have. Just try it and use those ears...)


----------



## Sound Eq

doctorjazz said:


> OK, I'm not sure anyone can really answer the question...certainly not me, I don't know the external usb card you are using. I'd guess the Denon, connected to your receiver (fixed) woulsound better, but you may have different sound preferences than I do, you may be using a fine external card. In the end, you are there, I am not. It's not all that complicated, I'd say you should try it for yourself, see which one YOU like better! (is it the 24/96 limitation that bothers you? That is only one of many factors that influence the sound. Some folks now prefer old R2R dACS, which only go to 16/44, to the newer ones that do higher resolution, for a natural, organic sound they are supposed to have. Just try it and use those ears...)


 
 final question so if i go desktop ---- usb--- denon--- rca--- yamaha will the denon run out of battery or will it be charged as its connected to the desktop by usb


----------



## doctorjazz

I've been able to keep it plugged in to wall while connected to my desktop, battery then not an issue.


----------



## Sound Eq

doctorjazz said:


> I've been able to keep it plugged in to wall while connected to my desktop, battery then not an issue.


 
 how did u mange to charge to the wall charger and use it as the same time when i want to use it as a dac to my desktop


----------



## doctorjazz

Why not? Haven't used it in a while (used to use it for streaming from my ipad at the office, office put a block on the wireless connection and had to stop, didn't need it any more). The USB is on the back, line out through the front. I can try it when I get a chance, but maybe I'm just remembering incorrectly. Never had a problem with it dying on me, though. 



sound eq said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > I've been able to keep it plugged in to wall while connected to my desktop, battery then not an issue.
> ...


----------



## Pippin76

sound eq said:


> final question so if i go desktop ---- usb--- denon--- rca--- yamaha will the denon run out of battery or will it be charged as its connected to the desktop by usb


 
 ​
 Flip the "charge" switch, the DA10 will charge through the USB. I mean, it's in the manual


----------



## doctorjazz

You got a manual!!!!????!!!!
(I know, on line, I know...)


----------



## Pippin76

doctorjazz said:


> You got a manual!!!!????!!!!
> (I know, on line, I know...)


 

 Actually, you'd think the words "Charge" and "On - Off" printed on the side of the brick would be a serious clue in and of itself


----------



## doctorjazz

True, I managed without a manual...


----------



## vnmslsrbms

Too bad it doesn't charge the iPhone even if you flipped it to charge-on while you are also charging the unit via wall plug into the micro USB.


----------



## headsetgo

Although this unit is great and I like the sound of it.
 It does seem to lack on volume for my liking but most importantly it lacks on bass which I like and is
 important for the kind of music I listen to.
  
 Can anyone recommend an alternative to the Denon that caters for the above I've mentioned and that is a decent
 sound producer?
  
 Thanks


----------



## vnmslsrbms

I've never found it lacking in volume driving my IEMs (see sig) even on low gain.  Are you driving headphones?  I didn't like the sound driving headphones and yeah it was a bit thin.  I don't think it handles higher loads well.  My Oppo HA-2 is good at base but a bit darker in the highs though.  It even has bass boost.  The price is reasonable and build quality and design is solid.


----------



## headsetgo

vnmslsrbms said:


> I've never found it lacking in volume driving my IEMs (see sig) even on low gain.  Are you driving headphones?  I didn't like the sound driving headphones and yeah it was a bit thin.  I don't think it handles higher loads well.  My Oppo HA-2 is good at base but a bit darker in the highs though.  It even has bass boost.  The price is reasonable and build quality and design is solid.


 

 Hi,
  
 Yes it is for headphones. Here is what I have...
  
 Denon AH-D600
 Sennheiser HD8 DJ
 Sennheiser IE800 (IEM)
  
 I was looking to purchase the OPPO PM-3 at a later stage.
  
 Do you think that I'd benefit to change the Denon to the HA-2?


----------



## vnmslsrbms

headsetgo said:


> Hi,
> 
> Yes it is for headphones. Here is what I have...
> 
> ...


 
 Not sure...  I'd have to go home and try it out.  I don't usually listen to headphones through the portable setup.  I also don't have the headphones you listed (only the IEM which I prefer the DA-10 over the HA-2 for), so I am not sure if I can give an opinion on that.  However, the Denon has a much lower impedance (like 25 ohm) vs the 95 ohm for the HD8.  From my experience the Denon doesn't drive my HD800 satisfyingly.  I'm going to have to have a listen again and compare the LCD.2.2 on them as well (which has a closer impedance to the HD8).  Not sure how different sound signatures would match for you however.


----------



## faisal2003456

Sorry to bring this thread back up, but does the DAC downsample DSD files (like the Onkyo/TEAC unit) or is it true DSD playback?


----------



## headsetgo

faisal2003456 said:


> Sorry to bring this thread back up, but does the DAC downsample DSD files (like the Onkyo/TEAC unit) or is it true DSD playback?


 
  
 I had this Dac and ended up sending it back. It lacked volume and bass for me. I changing it for the Oppo HA-2. Which I thought was much better.
 Also offers true DSD playback.
  
 Might be worth a look.


----------



## doctorjazz

Haven't used it in a while, but I found the DAC part to be good, the amp not as much. Did run it into another amp when I used it. Never tried DSD. Now pretty much use my Geek Out Special Edition/Regen/MicroZOTL2 for my PC, love it (not a bargain set up, though)!


----------



## flyingrhinorec

Does the DAC really perform the quality of a DSD file?
  
 I would like to hear more thoughts on the denon-da10 as a dac/amp please if possible.


----------



## audionewbi

I for one truly respect the denon AL32 technology. To me the issue that members have, and rightly so, is all due to poor headphone amp section. I find the denon AL32 feature to produce a sound that is very round and non-fatiguing. It sounds quiet similar to chord mojo. 

 I recently had a chance to try a much more expensive denon product which used the same technology in a large scale. It sounded as best as I heard, for my taste.
  
 If I was into stacking I see myself use denon with objective 2. Sadly where DA10 fails is how it deals with IEM. This is why I dont use it as much as I like to.


----------



## Pippin76

Wait, why wouldn't the DA-10 perform "true" DSD playback?
  
 ​


----------



## audionewbi

pippin76 said:


> Wait, why wouldn't the DA-10 perform "true" DSD playback?
> 
> ​


 all files that are processed by denon are up sampled using AL32 algorithm .


----------



## Pippin76

audionewbi said:


> all files that are processed by denon are up sampled using AL32 algorithm .


 
  
 Got it, however, is it a bad thing though? No one would ever complain about it in relation to ordinary cd audio.


----------



## audionewbi

pippin76 said:


> Got it, however, is it a bad thing though? No one would ever complain about it in relation to ordinary cd audio.



I am personally saving for a denon flagship DAC so to me it is not a bad thing at all.


----------



## B00MERS00NER

Does the DAC get bypassed when using the AUX input? Is the only way to engage the DAC is to utilize the USB/DAC connection? I was hoping to pair this with the Denon D600 and my Samsung Note 5.


----------



## audionewbi

Yes it does.


----------



## KnightBaron

*Is this a good budget DAC/AMP* considering that it is currently about 23,000 JPY at Amazon? With the current price, it within the same range as TEAC-P50 / Onkyo HA-200 but with DSD playback.


----------



## PantsUK

Just managed to pick up one directly from Denon on eBay (or so the listing said) wanted a cheap dac and it had to have external power or battery and at that price I couldn't really say no. We'll see if they've fixed any of the quirks


----------



## PantsUK

The price was £99


----------



## audionewbi

it is a great deal, you can spend the rest on the iFi iematch, you probably need it due to funny Denon volume knob.


----------



## PantsUK

I'm going to use it mainly as a DAC plugged into a little dot 1+ not what I intended to buy but was just a bargain I felt at that price. Looking to buy some new headphones and have a bit more cash available now. My shure se535s are what I listen to for around 10hrs a day but thinking about some fostex t20-40-50rps and wanted some more grunt if needed and I'm hoping as it runs of battery it will sort out the noise coming from my USB. Should be here Tuesday so we'll see. As you said I can always add the iematch if I need to.


----------



## doctorjazz

I have one foe a while, haven't used it much (just have other stuff plugged in most of my gear), thinking of bringing it to the Philly meet tomorrow, do DAC duty (line out from laptop into the Denon, into MicroZOTL2 amp, TIDAL as source), have used the DAC before, think it's pretty good (but have Geek Out Special Edition V1 into Revive/MicroZOTL2 doing duty from my PC, use a Pono as DAP, HTC10 phone which doesn't need external dac, and extra pieces are a PIA, so it mostly collects dust).


----------



## PantsUK

Well everything said about this is correct.  The channels are imbalanced when using IEMs at extremely low volumes, not a problem for me as I normally listed considerably louder than this with full size cans I have no issue.  I'm far from qualified to judge but to me the quality of sound both from the DAC and AMP are really very very good and for the price I paid (£99) it was new and boxed it was a complete bargain.  I've just ordered some B&W P7s (£165 another bargain) to go with it so will update my views after this but with my Shure se535 it was excellent to my ears and a massive upgrade from both the onboard sound and 2 other DACs I've got, in fact I feel this is seriously underrated.


----------



## audionewbi

P7 should pair nicely with DA-10. My biggest regret us not buying and ipod classic when I had a chance. With Denon what you want to so is load 16/44.1 quality files and enjoy its advance DSP upsampling. 


Denon was so close to getting it right but not close enough.


----------



## PantsUK

Just got some Fostex T40rps mk3 for 99 new, not sure how well it will drive those though, we'll see and I'm done spending for the month before my wife notices!


----------



## BlinkST

I've spent about an hour with this, and I can't hear any real difference between it (via usb) and my MacBook pro's headphone port. I'm not sure the DAC is even doing anything. The sound is marginally better than the iPhone's lightning-to-headphone jack adapter at best.


----------



## romanrex

Tested Denon DA-10

Headphone amplifier (or as a headphone amplifier)
Simple test report for "dummies"
Professional test report: 
Linear output (or as a linear output)
Professional test report

On-line comparison services with Denon DA-10

Comparison of change the frequency response of joint work of Denon DA-10 with different headphones

 Comparison of amplifier voltage and headphone sensitivity for optimal sound playing

Comparison of voltage graphs

Comparison of characteristics


Volume comparison


 Denon DA-10 included in list for headphones match to headphones for certain listening conditions


----------



## drbluenewmexico (May 20, 2018)

doctorjazz said:


> I have one foe a while, haven't used it much (just have other stuff plugged in most of my gear), thinking of bringing it to the Philly meet tomorrow, do DAC duty (line out from laptop into the Denon, into MicroZOTL2 amp, TIDAL as source), have used the DAC before, think it's pretty good (but have Geek Out Special Edition V1 into Revive/MicroZOTL2 doing duty from my PC, use a Pono as DAP, HTC10 phone which doesn't need external dac, and extra pieces are a PIA, so it mostly collects dust).


Hmm mines a friend not a foe haha
I love the sound but the channels are mismatched at low volumes so I have to use a Shure volume attenuator with it
But it does have a classic Demon warm sound and sounds good when well adjusted at super discounts it's worth collecting if u like the Denon sound


----------



## jambul

Just found out that the output impedance of this fella is 10.x ohm..

It might be the culprit of the love and hate of this fella


----------

