# Great small speakers?



## GirgleMirt

Hi, I'm about to start shopping for a pair of speakers. 

 Since I live in a condo, I won't be blasting the speakers, so my first concern is sound quality.

 Basically, they'll be used for everything: I'm buying a projector and those speakers will be my sound source (heard some 5 piece speakers and IMHO they didn't sound very good... so I'd rather go with detailed stereo sound as opposed to boomy crappy surround sound)

 They'll also be used to listen to music (obviously), and my musical taste is rather broad, I listen mainly to rock, blues, classical (and I'm trying to get into Jazz).

 The type of sound I'd be looking for: detailed, nothing too excessive: Not boomy, not _too_ bright.. Just a good balanced sound; I'm not looking for perfection.

 For now, I have a basic, aging about to be replaced Sony CDPlayer with another aging basic Fisher amplifier also to be replaced  I'm not sure what I'd get for replacement, but pricewise it would probably be in the 600-750$cdn price range (440-550$US) for each. Maybe used.

 So basically thats it! I was in an audio shop last saturday, and heard a very good mall set of speakers (box size 1.5 foot tall, 3/4 foot wide maybe) and was almost blown away by the sound; it was a santana live show playing out of a dvd player. I definitely should have asked for the price but didn't but I'm sure they were way above my price range... They were on some kind of colums too.

 I'm willing to pay maybe around 600-1000$cdn (440-730$US) for the pair. Maybe higher but that would be pushing it a bit...

 So a few questions:

 1) Any recommendations for that price range? 
 2) Should I get a used pair? I've heard that speakers sound quality dosen't 'degrade'. Any truth to that? Also, I'm a bit reluctant: If the speakers were 'abused' (played too loud) by the previous owner, is there gonna be sound degradation, or more chance that the speakers just die soon after I buy them or something like that?
 3) I've started to quickly look online and am now wondering, for my price range, should I go with floorstanding or bookshelf type(example) speakers? (I guess the ones I saw were bookshelfs + seperate column...)

 For sure I'm gonna go to a few shops to check them out, but maybe a few pointers for brands, models, etc.. to look for would be a good place to start 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 much thanks!!!


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## D-EJ915

well, the Paradigm Mini-Monitors are great speakers and cost $340, and the Monitor 5s cost $500+ and sound exceptional in the price range, so take your pick, the 5s have much more bass.


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## MoLtoSoLo

Used speaker usually are pretty good. Just look for mint condition ones. 
 I would suggest Triangle Titus 202, great little speaker. You can find a lot of review around.


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## BlindTiger

Does anyone have the Paradigm Reference series?
 I see many with the mini monitors but wouldn't it be better to move up to the Reference series?


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## princeclassic

ascend acoustics cbm-170....look em up at hometheaterforum.com for reviews...


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## stallion11msu

You might consider some Magneplanar speakers. They're not exactly small but they're fairly thin. Just make sure you've got an amplifier that's up to the task.

 550 USD for their MMG's


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## GirgleMirt

oh I should have mentionned, bang for the buck is pretty important, and price near 440$US (600$CDN) is really the target. To go higher the speakers would have to be really exceptionnal! 

 Interesting comment  Quote:


 One factor that you should consider when comparing bookshelf to floorstanding speakers is that good stands will cost at least $100, so some bookshelf speakers are not as easy on the wallet as they seem. 
 

So one with the stand included definitely gets a +.

 So far:

 ascend acoustics cbm-170 
 Paradigm Mini & 5s
 Triangle Titus 202 
 magnepan

 PSB image 5T 
 Monitor Audio Bronze 2 MKII 
 Linn Katan (used)

 All look good! Keep'em coming!


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## zeplin

GirgleMirt,
 some of KEF's bookshelves are awesome. go to kef.com to check them out! the thing about KEF is their Uni-Q design, which allows the wonderful imaging that they produce, to fill the whole room rather than one sweet spot. then, to find the right price, go to yahoo and type in the specific speaker that will work for you, and follow that by typing in "for sale" and a bunch of websites will come up with great prices on KEF speakers. if i were you, i would look at the X-Q or the Uni-Q series. they both have the tweeter set in the middle of the mid range drivers. i bought the Q5 towers in the cherry wood colour, and they are both great sounding and incredibly beautiful. their sound can be described as on the neutral side with a slight hint of warmness and great bass to boot! check em out
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 that's one good thing about choosing speakers, there are literally hundreds of choices and great deals to choose from, which can prove to be kind of difficult sometimes. good luck to you


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## GirgleMirt

know what?! I'm think it was the XQ1 I heard on saturday!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Except theirs was of a dark red color, I'm pretty sure because of the little 'ball' on top (tweeter), I didn't pay much attention to it then, at the time I just thought it was a strange design 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway.. From the 2 minutes I heard them (I was on my way out because at the time I was shopping for a projector), I must say that they sounded amazing! 

 How much do they go for? Google didn't turn out anything...


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## Sol_Zhen

My suggestion is to go to the home pages for the companies I'm going to list, go to the "dealer locator" page, and make a list of local dealers. Each dealer will carry more brands in addition to the ones I'm listing (just the common ones). 

 Go and take some of your CDs with you. Also listen to some unfamiliar material that the dealer will have. Try to use the same tracks to test all the speakers you audition. 

 Wait a week and go back to the dealers that had the speakers you liked best and audition again. By then, you’ll know what you like. Go with whatever will put the biggest grin on your face. 

 The sites for these brands will have a dealer locator page: 

 B&W
 NHT
 Atlantic Technology
 Monitor Audio
 Paradigm
 Energy
 PSB

 The stores will undoubtedly carry other fine brands like Tannoy and Mission, but looking for local dealers of the ones I listed will help you locate the finer hi-fi shops in your area. 

 Remember, the dealers will quote list prices at first. However, you should be able to get 10% to 20% off list, depending on the brand.


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## GirgleMirt

good info! Someone also mentionned that I should stick with canadian products, which is a pretty darn good idea since they'll brobably be cheaper here. (Paradigm, Energy, PSB, etc..)

 Anyhow, I've got a *lot* of info and that will make the research much easier!

 oh, and I don't know how but I missed that part  Quote:


 i bought the Q5 towers in the cherry wood colour, and they are both great sounding and incredibly beautiful. their sound can be described as on the neutral side with a slight hint of warmness and great bass to boot! check em out 
 

 Congrats! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm sure they sound great, and for sure I'll check them out, those KEF's I heard sounded really, really, really good! 

 Its those 2 red KEF's XQ1... Those evil things... I was about to leave the shop, then two little demons with those sparkling balls caught my eyes. They slowly dram me in, closer, and closer, and closer until suddenly... WHAM!! I got captured by their sound... I tried to get away, but it was too late... I was mesmerized by the sound, hypnotized by the shimmering lights of the tweeters... Eventhough I managed to break out of the spell and walk away, I'm sure that it was already too late, It had already subconsciously convinced me that I needed a new pair of speakers... If only I was stronger and could overcome the desire... Damn those little devils... KEF is evil I tell you! EVIL!!


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## GodsMadClown

I own and also reccomend the ascend acoustics cbm-170.

 Regarding stands, take a look at the PartsExpress.com part number 240-744. They are very heavy and steel, even before I filled them with sand. Heavy inert stands like that, along with a small blob of poster putty will help you get the most bass that you can out of your CBM, or whatever other little monitor.

 You might also look at av123.com. They have some very good-looking speakers. I've not heard them, but they are making quite a buzz.

 There was an interesting shootout among the budget bookshelf offerings of the more reputed internet-direct speaker lines. See the thread: 
budget speaker comparison in LA: Aperion, Ascend, Axiom, and Onix Rocket .


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## GodsMadClown

Ah. One more thing. You might try to find out if there are any Rocket 150 or CBM-170 owners in your area. Post a request for auditions at their respective brand forums.

http://ascendforum.com
http://forum.av123.com


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## zeplin

girglemirt,

 the kefs definitely are sweet sounding and looking speakers. i know it sounds like all i care about is the looks, but i'm an artist who paints water colour, pencil drawings, and creates anything in a sort of architect way. i like to improve upon already existing products and also i make up speaker designs when i'm board at school. so when i look at a beautiful speaker, i think of it as a work of art, especially when the makers construct the speaker to not only look good, but use a specific great-looking design to better help the sound reproduction improve...that's what i call an engineering feet!

 anyways, back to the point...
 i think you were caught by the kefs because of their ability to image so well. again, like i said earlier, there is no one sweet spot with the kefs...like many other speakers have. plus, the kef sound is just so warm, yet neutral, yet detailed, yet smooth...in other words, they seem to include every type of sound into one unique type of their own sound characteristic! there's no doubt that you can eventually find a killer deal out there on the net somewhere, ebay, etc.. when i bought my kef Q5 towers, i bought them brand new (with warranty) from an ebay dealer for something like 700$, when they retail for over 1k!!! good luck and don't count out any of those Kef bookshelves


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## Gallaine

There are several recent threads discussing bookshelf speakers. If you haven't already read those searching for "bookshelf speakers" will find them.

 Having owned a pair of Axiom M22ti speakers for almost 2 years I'd give them an enthusiastic recommendation. IMO they aren't really all that bright, though I suppose that might depend on what they are being compared to. There is a good review of them at Soundstage.

 Take into account room size when choosing between bookshelf and floorstanding speakers. I orignally owned a pair of Paradigm Reference Studio 60 floorstanding speakers. Since I live in an apartment and have a relatively small living room I decided to try the Axiom M22ti's. While the Paradigm's were the better speaker the Axioms seemed to fit the room better. The biggest problem was bass. The larger Studio 60's went lower and due to the small room size I had difficulty finding optimal placement to avoid muddy indistinct bass. It isn't impossible to find a position that is good enough to allow the use of floorstanders - just a little more difficult.


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## GirgleMirt

hey! So a small update, went to a few places after work.

 actually its long you might want to stick to the end 
 ------------------------------------

 One place looked very good (had TONS of speakers), but I was only there 20ish minutes since the place closed at 6...

 Anyhow, the guy there looked very knowledgeable, and said that for the buck for buck, a bookshelf would give a better sound than a floorstander, especially in a small room.

 His suggested brand for the price would be Whaferdale, but for my kind of budget, room size, etc.. He recommended, a Quad I think it was L1 or L2 not sure, (by whaferdale if I'm not mistaken) 999$can (OUCH MU WALLET!!), or a KEF Q1 slightly less expensive, 750ish if I remember, or, and I tell you the truth I've never actually considered it as a serious choice until I heard it, a Totem






, it was a slim one, either the arro or sttaf, don't think he mentionned the price.

 Anyhow, supposedly, canadian products being cheaper in canada is bull since they're manufactured in china or I don't know where and they don't come cheaper than any other brand... Not only that, he said they didn't sound as good... In a quick 10 minutes, he asked what kind of music I listened to, told him I had a cd picked up The Division Bell by Pink Floyd. Put in track3 (didn't really have a track in mind at that time), he put in a cdplayer, and sound played thru Energy C5 floorstanding speakers. Sounded pretty good I thought!

 He then put the cd in another cdplayer, and the Totem Arro (strange, very slim speakers floorstanding) played. At the time, it sounded good, but still similar to the Energy, but still better, couldn't really put my finger on what. Then new cdplayer & the Quad (bookshelf), and again, still better then before I thought... couldn't really put my finger where... So I asked to put the Energy back. Well... What do you know... It sounded like shiot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well, not really, but still, hard to explain, but where was the detail, ?coherence?? The song, Poles apart, has a guitar playing fast notes, on the last 2 speakers, I could hear each string as it was being picked, but, with the Energy, much much harder to hear, and sounded like it was... I don't know.. mixed and faded behind, not clear and distinct picks like the 2 last speakers...

 Anyway, he was closing, going back tomorrow for sure since he'll close at 8 instead of 6. After some other non-related speaker shopping, I went to another place who unfortunately, in the price range, only had B&W speakers. Bookshelfs and Standing, listened to the first one, the 601 which sounded pretty good, but not as good as the Quads or Arro (still it was a good 350$ cheaper), not as much detail, sounded a bit more like the Energy.. Then he made me listen to another higher end model (CM2?), who unfortunately was more expensive than the Quad, but didn't seen to surpass it in sound quality.. Also a bit lacking in bass to my ears, but still I didn't really notice the bass on the Arro & Quad either so I can't really make a comparison there. 

 Oh, I quickly heard a PSB 5T at another place also, very Energy like, seemed to lack the 'each string played' detail of the Quad & Totem.

 ----------------------------------------

 Anyhow, so what do you think about the Quad / Wharfedale, Totem and KEF's being recommended? 

 So far I've heard Quad 11L (might be 12L) and Totem Arro, and to me they both sounded better than PSB 5T, Energy C5 and B&W's. 

 There's still a lot of speakers that I haven't heard, and I'm just curious to know if anyone relates or differs from what I got so far! Comments, suggestions anything welcomed


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## Sovkiller

On this price range I should look into a pair Dynaudio monitors or so, nice sound but they are expensive, and hard to drive....


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## coho66

yeah, i'd go with paradigm, energy, psb, athena, sound dynamics; anything made in canada as that will keep your costs down. when i sold equipment i recalled getting slaughtered on exchange with U.S. and British made stuff. I don't think you'll go wrong with any entry-mid speakers from those manufacturers as i think you'd need better equipment to hear any better. if you want to spend more and get a better speaker i'd go with the paradigm reference stuff...is a great value and mates well with lots of equipment and applications.


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## Gallaine

Quote:


 _Originally posted by GirgleMirt _
*Not only that, he said they didn't sound as good... * 
 

I would be very suspicious of such a blanket statement. Synergy plays a _big_ role in how any component will sound in a system. Throw-in room acoustics and you have a whole lot of variables determining whether or not a particular component works for you. There are also alot of Axiom and Paradigm reviewers/owners, both professional and just plain 'ole joes who would disagree with the assertion that Canadian-speakers are inferior; I'll admit that I don't know if Axiom is made in Canada but they are a Canadian-based company.

 If you did not do this, I would suggest taking along 5 or 6 discs representative of the type of music you listen to. And be sure to ask to be left alone while listening - or at least to be in control of when to change tracks or discs. If the store has similar equipment to what you have at home ask that the sales representative build a system with it so that you can get a better idea of what the speakers will actually sound like in _your_ system (that's all that really counts anyway).


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## coho66

"Synergy plays a big role in how any component will sound in a system. Throw-in room acoustics and you have a whole lot of variables determining whether or not a particular component works for you. "

 gallaine - i agree


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## GirgleMirt

"Not only that, he said they didn't sound as good... " 

 Well he was probably talking about what he had, which was Energy, and the rest I'm not sure. Anyway, there's a lot of dealers with canadian speakers, for sure give them another listen at another dealer with a different source, so that I might get a better idea of the true speaker's worth. 

 Unfortunately, I might not be able to hear Axiom as I've heard they're hard to find. But the rest of canadian I'll probably get ample chances to hear.

 Quad: http://www.quad-hifi.co.uk/lseriesbroch.pdf
 Energy C5: http://www.energy-speakers.com/conno...kers1_c-5.html

 Also, remember the price, the Energy C5 floorstanding was 800$ish cdn I think, where the Quad were bookshelf at 999$. So we might be taking into account added costs for the floorstanding materials, not only that its about 3 times the size of the Quad(more wood, bigger ship, build, etc..), it has 2 'main' speakers + 1 tweeter, where the Quad only has 1 main and 1 tweeter. 

 The salesman didn't elaborate on bookshelfs sounding 'better' than floorstanding, but as I had originally thought, there must be a kind of a quality vs quantity relation going on here. For the same price you get a MUCH bigger box and two extra speakers. So quality has to be affected..

 Take B&W 601 vs 602. Same speaker, but one is floorstanding and the other is bookshelf. The 602 is like a hundred bucks more. Add a 2nd speaker to the 602, that would again raise the price. So we're kinda comparing different beasts here, and I think its pretty logical that bookshelf vs floorstanding, buck for buck, that the bookshelf sounds better.


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## Sol_Zhen

Quote:


 _Originally posted by GirgleMirt _
*I think its pretty logical that bookshelf vs floorstanding, buck for buck, that the bookshelf sounds better. * 
 

Usually. But, don’t forget the added cost of getting quality stands.


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## pbirkett

Probably not too common over the pond, but I'd recommend some Mission M51's or Volare V61's. I've compared the Missions with the likes of the Quad 11L's, B&W 602S3 and KEF Q1. Beats them all in one way or another. Outstanding bass performance that is prominent but also tuneful and agile, plenty of detail but not analytical, and they image like nothing else I've heard for the price. Worth a consideration at least....


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## jefemeister

I have the Paradigm Reference Studio 40. I have a similar aprtment setup to what you're trying to put together. 

 They aren't terribly afraid of being put into corners, they put out a decent amount of good-sounding bass but don't expect them to fill a large room, the higher frequencies are a bit more rolled off than I care for but a lot of the detail of cymbals and the like is quite good. The midrange is as good as you could hope for in this price range. That's where they shine. Volcals sound warm and full. They throw a pretty believable soundstage too.

 They definitely don't sound like mega-buck speakers, but they don't try to be. That's probably the best thing that can be said about them.

 Hope it helps.

 Cheers,
 Jeff


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## GirgleMirt

yep, well... after a hard days work and listening to a few cd players, amps, speakers, my mind is melted... 

 Tried Totem Arro (1300$cdn/950US), mites, Rokk(700$cdn/513$US), Paradigm Monitor 3 & 5 (475$cdn 15% TAX INCLUDED / 350$US, the 5 is 100$cdn more I think) and a Wharfedale discontinued due to ripping off the top rotating tweeter of B&W (dont remember the model) 500$cdn+tx.

 For a third of the price of the Arro and almost half of the Totem rokks, the Paradigm monitor 3 can stand proud. Definitely a quality speaker. The wharfedale sounded good too, but was with a higher end cdplayer & amp so not sure if it means anything.

 My mind is dead now, and I'm pretty mixed up.. Arro sounded darn good but 1300$, Paradigm didn't sound as good, but they're not really in the same league either.. Same for the Rokks... All it seems I can say is that they're all good in their own way... Arro bass and detail, sound is just soo good.. Rokk, bass isn't quite there vs arro, less detail, but less $$ too... 

 Paradigm & rokk weren't at the same place, so hard to have a direct comparison, but... I'd be dishonest if I'd say night and day difference, but I'd still say rokk > paradigm. But again less $$ for Paradigm, almost half price...

 So I don't know.. lol.. looks like finding a good set of speakers isn't the challenge, moreso determining which one would fit better for me... And I haven't even started with the cdplayer/amp synergy and all...

 1300$cdn is probably a bit over budget, but then again it would suck to buy something cheaper, and later on say: "crap I wish I had spent a few hundred bucks more and gotten the other one!!"

 Bah, anyway, hard choices! LOL, and there's even more (good) speakers I haven't even heard yet... great! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 OH... And unbelievable the difference between a 600$(440$US) nad amp I think it was and a 5000$(3700$US) Conrad tube amp... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Same cdplayer, same speakers (totem Rokk)... I would have never imagined SUCH a difference.... Sounded like he took the Rokks and replaced them with speakers worth 5 times more... That also speaks volumes for the Rokks, but anyway, that amp is _slightly_ over my budget! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Oh, and a funny fact, I'm probably gonna stop by the Totem headquarters tomorrow. Nice little half hour bike ride!!!


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## 00940

Quote:


 _Originally posted by GirgleMirt _
*His suggested brand for the price would be Whaferdale* 
 

hehe, this guy has some good taste 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The little 8.1 are real good for the price.


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## D-EJ915

The Paradigm Monitor 3 has kind of sloppy bass, that's why I didn't recommend that one, the Monitor 5 is much better.


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## PinkFloyd

http://www.bandor.com made solely by women and a superb small speaker!


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## MacDEF

For your particular use, I second the recommendation above for the Triangle Titus. You can get them for around US$500. Check out the online reviews


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## Trawlerman

Quote:


 _Originally posted by zeplin _
*GirgleMirt,
 some of KEF's bookshelves are awesome. go to kef.com to check them out! the thing about KEF is their Uni-Q design, which allows the wonderful imaging that they produce, to fill the whole room rather than one sweet spot. then, to find the right price, go to yahoo and type in the specific speaker that will work for you, and follow that by typing in "for sale" and a bunch of websites will come up with great prices on KEF speakers. if i were you, i would look at the X-Q or the Uni-Q series. they both have the tweeter set in the middle of the mid range drivers. i bought the Q5 towers in the cherry wood colour, and they are both great sounding and incredibly beautiful. their sound can be described as on the neutral side with a slight hint of warmness and great bass to boot! check em out
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 that's one good thing about choosing speakers, there are literally hundreds of choices and great deals to choose from, which can prove to be kind of difficult sometimes. good luck to you
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


* 
 


 The KEF Q series are a great speaker. I've got a pair of Q15.2s that take pride of place alongside my Spendors / Quads and ProAcs. They are that good! 

 To my mind, the only downside is that i've found that to get the best from the Q15.2s one needs to have a amplifier that can put some power it's way. It tend to sound very ordinary otherwise.

 In the right setup it can rival speakers at least 2-3 times its price.


 I'm very impressed with the Q15.2s


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## pearle

Check out the RBH 41-SEs.

http://rbhsound.com/41se.shtml

 I've owned these for about 8 months and like them quite a bit. They cost about $600 US w/o stands.


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## Ctn

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Trawlerman _
*The KEF Q series are a great speaker. I've got a pair of Q15.2s that take pride of place alongside my Spendors / Quads and ProAcs. They are that good! 

 To my mind, the only downside is that i've found that to get the best from the Q15.2s one needs to have a amplifier that can put some power it's way. It tend to sound very ordinary otherwise.

 In the right setup it can rival speakers at least 2-3 times its price.


 I'm very impressed with the Q15.2s 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



* 
 

I found them quite bad sounding.
 I think they did some eq'ing to boost the high frequencies.

 The bass is sloppy and slow.

 Not much magic in the midrange either.

 Not very good value for money imo.


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## Pappucho

Get these.....B&W CDM1SE's

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=14991


 Used but still in very good condition (from pics) and very highly regarded speaker. Great price as well.

 Edit: SOLD! Anyone here buy them?


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## zeplin

yes, any of the Kef speakers can sound very bla out of the wrong setup. as does any speaker...but with the Kef's, it's more pronounced and a part of their charcater. i don't think anyone should get them unless they will have a lot of good clean, high quality power to run to them. i power mine with an Arcam integrated amp and they sound full, rich, with a wonderful deep end. but if i power them with my Onkyo receiver, they sound thin and lifeless.


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## Dusty Chalk

Totem MIni-Mites (?name) are supposed to be pretty good, too.


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## hempcamp

I currently own the Acoustic Energy Aegis One that I got for a steal (overstock, $135/pr), a very versatile loudspeaker and not too damaging to classical pieces. Doesn't blow my neighbors away either (I live in a condo). They match well with my very humble NAD L-40.

 But if I could afford any bookshelf speakers on the market right now, I'd go for the Sonus Faber Concertinos. It makes my bones shiver to hear them sing at the audio shop.

 I also like the sound of the PSB Image 5T, but not for classical and jazz pieces. The Wharfdale 8.2 didn't suit my ears at all in the brief period of time I listened to them in store.

 --Chris

 [edit]

 Oh, almost forgot: there's a pretty good bookshelf speaker review in Aug/Sept issue of The Absolute Sound. Image 5T, Concertos (not Concertinos), and Wharfdales all reviewed there.


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## Ctn

Quote:


 _Originally posted by zeplin _
*yes, any of the Kef speakers can sound very bla out of the wrong setup. as does any speaker...but with the Kef's, it's more pronounced and a part of their charcater. i don't think anyone should get them unless they will have a lot of good clean, high quality power to run to them. i power mine with an Arcam integrated amp and they sound full, rich, with a wonderful deep end. but if i power them with my Onkyo receiver, they sound thin and lifeless. * 
 

They were far from thin and lifeless. They were very coloured.
 My first impression was...who are they kidding?

 This is the first speaker that I have listened to that the high frequencies actually hurt my ears.

 This impression is from their Q series.


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## pbirkett

As a previous owner of Wharfedale Diamond 8.2's, I'd have to say that they are ok for cheap starter speakers, but if you want something that you will keep for a while, I'd hang on and gets something better. They are a bit flat and lifeless. The likes of the Mission M51's and B&W 602S3's, Monitor Audio Silver S1's and Dynaudio Audience 42's all cost more, but all thrash the Wharfedales for sound quality IMO.


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## GirgleMirt

okay! Well thanks all for recommendations, advice, etc.. but turns out I didn't even buy bookshelves 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I got a pair of Totem Arro! Paid 1200$CDN/884$USD for them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They're almost a compromise between a floorstanding and bookshelf since they're pretty small yet...

 I wanted to wait until I had time to play with them before posting, but redoing the room they're going in is taking more time than planned and the speakers have been in their box for almost a week so I'll just post now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So basically, out of ALL the bookshelfs speakers I've heard, the paradigm was cheap and very good sounding. B&W also had nice contestants and so did wharfedale. But the totem Rokks just sounded amazing and could be had for not too much more (Rokks > mites and cheaper too since they're discontinued). Monitor Audio S2 sounded pretty good also!

 the price difference for bookshelf+stand wasn't THAT much from floorstanding.. Also, bookshelves had a bit of lack of lower end, also they don't look as serious as floorstanding, I had extra $ lying around, so I just decided to go floorstanding. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In floorstanding, I really liked the Monitor Audio S6 and Totem Arro. Both were similarly priced (totem a bit cheaper) and they both 'stood out' from the others. Both were more expensive than most floorstanding though: PSB, Dahlquist, Energy, Paradigm, etc.. BUT, I found that what I was looking for was closer with those 2. 

 The arros are special... ULTRA slim, slick, small, yet, they sound HUGE and highly detailed! My first reaction when hearing them: "Ok... which speakers are playing? Those big ones? no?! THOSE SMALL ONES?!!? " 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hehehe, they're very special 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Mentions of other speakers in misc categories:

 KEFS: Q1 & Q3. Someone said warm? ... **WARM**! They weren't my cup of tea 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I much prefered the sound of the Q5! More detailed, much, much better IMHO. Q1&3 were just too warm.. The rest wasn't really impressive either. I heard the Q5 right after though, and it was a huge improvement, warm but not overly, much better highs and mids! Someone else was listening to them, constantly yabbering (talking) with the 2nd salesman while I was trying to listen to them... "oh now they make small speakers that are soo good like when I was blah blah balh" I wanted to scream STU AND LISTN FOO but didn't... Also the dumby bought the Q3's which IMHO were worst than the Q1 because they had even *more* bass than the already bassy Q1.... (can you tell I'm not very fond of the overly bassy sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )

 Boston: Salesman: "drivers are made of ?rubber? and will basically last forever". Oh thats good! Listen to the speakers... UH?!??! What?! Know when u go out of a plane and your ears are messed up because of the pressure? Like how that sounds? If so, get boston! IMHO, they sounded HORRIBLE! They win the 'worst speakers I've heard' prize!

 Paradigm ?Studio 100?: Floorstanding. Normally 1600$+ cdn from what the salesman told me, new one came out, offer floor demo 1100$. Listened to them quite a bit.. They sounded kinda weird.. something wrong but I couldn't quite put my fingers on what exactly.. I think it was too much base and annoying tweeters.. Right after I tried S6, and WHAM, thats what a speaker should sound like! Discarded the paradigms right away. The paradigms could be played much louder IMHO.. But that wasn't what I was looking for...

 Titus Triange floorstanding: Very warm no? Also more highs if I'm not mistaking.. 1500$CDN

 Magnepan: WEIRD!!! Wasn't sure whether I liked them or not... just... strange...

 Also PG Lam or something like that wasn't too bad, but more expensive than the Monitor audio S6 and Totem Arro

 Anyway, can't wait to plug the speakers


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## vrao81

Nice to hear some of your impressions. I too thought the Paradigm Studio sounded a bit harsh. And the Monitor Audio Silver series is excellent, I heard the small S1 and WOW that was an awesome speaker! Now I want to go and do some more speaker listening myself
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . 
 Not surprised you didn't like Boston, a few of their models are Ok, but most are junk and are easily dusted by the competition. They do make some nice computer speakers though


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## GirgleMirt

lol yeah hoping to hear some of other people's impressions on some of the speakers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And sorry if the last post is all 'messy' and unstructured.. Basically written very quickly at work over the course of a few days.. Quite busy these last few days!


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## Sovkiller

Did you take a look at the Axiom, they have pretty good speakers for very cheap, factory direct sales, even a whole home theater system, sometimes the even have a demo or b stock sales the blemished are completelly irrelevant if you could find them, very simple and good designs according to the reviewers, I was thinking personally in give them a try, they offer also 30 days trial money back guaranteed and free shipping...any other opinion on those of any members that have tried them...


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## GirgleMirt

Nah sorry man already bought the speakers! (see end of last page 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) and I didn't see any Axiom's anywhere...

 In total I went to about 8 shops and I thought that was more than enough! At one time I was pretty confused after hearing many speakers and trying to discern every difference, qualities, etc... And said ah frig it I'll just listen and pick what sounds right & sounds best to me without trying to be too analytic about it.

 Basically, I really liked the Totem Rokks but still I was more drawned to the Arro's (more base, more complete sound, better look, no stands, etc..). The totems just impressed me more than the other speakers I've heard. Monitor Audio S6 was a close 2nd though. Anyhow, went thru most of the local audio shops, so thought it was time to actually buy something lol.

 Totem Rokk image: http://www.technofile.com/articles/totem_rokks.html


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## Sovkiller

Quote:


 _Originally posted by GirgleMirt _
*Nah sorry man already bought the speakers! (see end of last page 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) and I didn't see any Axiom's anywhere...

 In total I went to about 8 shops and I thought that was more than enough! At one time I was pretty confused after hearing many speakers and trying to discern every difference, qualities, etc... And said ah frig it I'll just listen and pick what sounds right & sounds best to me without trying to be too analytic about it.

 Basically, I really liked the Totem Rokks but still I was more drawned to the Arro's (more base, more complete sound, better look, no stands, etc..). The totems just impressed me more than the other speakers I've heard. Monitor Audio S6 was a close 2nd though. Anyhow, went thru most of the local audio shops, so thought it was time to actually buy something lol.

 Totem Rokk image: http://www.technofile.com/articles/totem_rokks.html * 
 

axioms only sell factory direct, no stores carry them, check www.axiomaudio.com IIRC according to the reviewer those beat some of the more expensive ones....


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## GirgleMirt

thats probably why I didn't see them anywhere 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm pretty sure though that if you don't like them and return them, its at your cost and shipping 2 biggas floorstanding probably isn't too cheap!

 Also I'm curious, how much do the Totem Arro costs in the states?


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## Sovkiller

A lot more, maybe yours was a much better choice, I have no doubt of that, but as "el cheapo" man I am, I always take into consideration the costs, as the returning, what is maybe 40.00 when you are expending 400.00, BTW if you do not have this option, and have to sell them becasue you do not like them, how much you will loose, speakers are not an R-10 that maybe you will sell it for the same amount, as otherwise there is a two months waiting period, most of the times you loose more on the reselling....I will give them a try, sooner or later, the reviews are very favorable for them.....


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## vrao81

Sov, give the guy a break, he already bought speakers and doesn't need someone telling him he should have bought something else. He's happy with his purchase and doesn't give a rat's ass about what you think 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





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## GirgleMirt

lol, well anyhow I'm pretty sure that they're totally different beasts from the Totems.

 Totems Arro: 
http://www.totemacoustic.com/english...Stand_arro.jpg
 height: 34
 width: 5 
 depth: 7 

 Axiom mt60: 
http://www.axiomaudio.com/img/prodpi...irGrillOff.jpg
 height:37.5
 width: 9.25
 depth: 15

 Also, generally speaking, I found that floorstanding speakers were on a step (or two!) below bookshelves in terms of clarity (detail).. For example, PSB, Energy, Dahlquist, were all nice sounding but weren't up to par with the smaller Totem Rokks in terms of precision (details you can hear, don't know the exact term...). Even higher priced floorstanding weren't as good! BUT, the bookshelves lacked the lower end, completeness of the floors.

 The arro seemed like a good compromise between floorstanding and bookshelf, offering unbelievable (unbelievable is the right term: You don't believe it!!!) base for their size and the detail of the smaller Rokks. Still less base than lets say KEF's, Paradigm or Titus, but still, better than the Rokks and good enough for my taste and I'm sure my condo neighbours! Detailed, natural and neutral sound (not too much highs or lows), immersive, were all things I was looking for, which the Totems filled every need 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So I don't think selling them is going to be a problem: They're mine and I'm keepin'em 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hehehe, actually I took my time when shopping and found pretty much everything I was looking for in the Totems. A bit higher price than first planned but anyhow, no one will starve or will have to wear ragged clothing because of it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Besides, I think Sovkiller just wanted anoter opinion before he orders his pair of Axiom 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ("I will give them a try" except maybe if he was talking about the totems?)

 I think its a bit the loss of Axiom that they don't have any demos anywhere... they might have been really good, but I wasn't about to shell out ~50$ to demo a speaker... Plus the hassle of ordering, going to collect (I work during the day by bus/metro) it at the post office, repackage, go back to the post office to ship back, etc...

 But just for the sake of discussion, anyone ever compared the Axioms to the Monitor Audio S6 or Totems?


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## Sovkiller

Quote:


 _Originally posted by vrao81 _
*Sov, give the guy a break, he already bought speakers and doesn't need someone telling him he should have bought something else. He's happy with his purchase and doesn't give a rat's ass about what you think 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . * 
 

That is true, but when I made this post, I have not read yet the whole thread and I have no idea of that he already had gotten the speakers, my fault, I'm too lazy to read the whole thread, but anyway as he "wisely" stated I was looking also for some feedback of the Axioms, is a way of talking man.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 BTW i think you are comapring a 3 way with a 2 way one, they have even an smaller ones that should be a more fair comparison, for good or bad...m40ti 490.00


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## AdamP88

Quote:


 _Originally posted by GirgleMirt _
*I think its a bit the loss of Axiom that they don't have any demos anywhere... they might have been really good, but I wasn't about to shell out ~50$ to demo a speaker... Plus the hassle of ordering, going to collect (I work during the day by bus/metro) it at the post office, repackage, go back to the post office to ship back, etc...* 
 

FYI (and for Sov, too), if you visit the Axiom forums (http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?Cat=), they have a thread where people have volunteered to host auditions of their own equipment to those interested. Here's the link to the thread itself, if you're interested:

Audition Axioms In Your Area


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## papabear

Anyone try Axiom wires (coax, spkr cable, s-video) any better or worse than others?


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## Sovkiller

Thanks but there is none on my area, NJ...the nearest is in Long Island, about two hours from here.....


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## D-EJ915

I went to domes AV, and I had a quick listen to the new Studio 100 V.3s (paradigm), and they kick major ass, it feels like a subwoofer is being used even if it isn't, they are supreme, but alas, they look foul compared to the old ones, especially with that gaudy silver phase-plug type dust cap...it ruins the Paradigm's stern, calm look, they are $2200/pair, but I think they're well worth it, if their other studio models are like those, then they are the best things ever...well, besides the Nautilus 801s...hehe

 They also have Totems there, and they look kinda strange, not having grilles and all, but I didn't get to listen to any


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## coho66

yeah...funny how you didn't like the paradigm's? I can't recall ever reading a bad magazine review of them; particularly the reference series. hmph...but just goes to show you the "different strokes for different folks" cliche, and/or the effect of associated equipment and room acoustics and musical taste.


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## D-EJ915

They sounded nice, but I think the room was a little too sound-treated, and they sounded deader than usual, but I do think the V.2 model looked far suprerior than the new V.3, I explained why already, but They're designed to have the grilles on, so it doesn't really matter, you just don't get the stunning look like with nautilus 802s.


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