# REVIEW: Keces DA-151 DAC 800+ hours burn-in



## oicdn

Source: Laptop using FooBar and/or iTunes
 Interconnect: ALO Au/Ag Series
 Amp: Lisa III, GoVibe Petite
 Headphones: SR80, RP21, UM2, DT770 80ohm, Skullcandy Ink'd, JVC Mallows
 Burn-In: 800+

 My DAC references are against a D1, and Petite. Against the Petite was a little different because I couldn't use it as JUST a DAC, I had to use it as an amp/DAC, then compare my differences when I heard it used as JUST an amp. Considering the Petite SQ doesn't degrade like the Move did when used as a DAC, it made the comparison easier.

 Other DAC's owned: Indigo DJ, D1 (rolled opamps), M-Audio Transit
 Other DAC's extensive time with: Emu 404, Entech 203 and 205, Audigy NX

 The main difference between this model and the previous version is it's SOLELY designed around USB, rather than other inputs. So it's a little more concentrated/specialized. Circuitry has also been revised.






















 The 1st thing you notice is how SOLID the DAC feels. It comes double boxed. The dark top adds to a clean look while hinting as to what's inside. At night, if you leave the DAC on, the blue led is BRIGHT and shines an "o" on the ceiling.

 Set-up is VERY easy, as you turn it on the computer automatically recognizes it as "usb speakers". No hassle, nothing. Just plug and play.

 Upon 1st hearing it, the very 1st thing you notice is both how fast it is, and how crisp it sounds. Next you notice how PUNCHY the amp is. It's not colored, but it really does have IMPACT, across the board.

*Soundstage and Presentation*
 You'll notice the DAC sounds VERY open even upon first impression. I was comparing it to the DAC section in the Petite, as well as the DACs coming from my Nano and 4th Gen iMod. It's a very WIDE presentation. Imagine sitting about 5 rows back in a concert, where the music is present upfront, but you feel surrounded by the music. It's especially evident when using Grado's, as the already upfront presentation is even more pronounced. People say Grado's have no soundstage, well, the SR80's sound WIDE. RP21's and DT770's sound fabulous on this DAC. UM2's as usual, nothing new there.

*Transparency*
 The Keces demolishes the Petite and iPod's transparency. I mean, as it easily should, but the difference is fairly dramatic. Not a hint of warmth, coldness, just completely transparent and neutral sound. I was petty shocked at the difference coming from an iMod...

*Treble*
 The highs don't seem as bright as the DACs coming from the like of an Indigo DJ or the iMod/iPods. Don't get me wrong, the amp can SPARKLE, but the highs don't seem to PIERCE your ears like they do from other sources. Which is good for the Grado fans, as the already bright signature would maybe seem overwhelming if it were any brighter than the Petites. The decay is however MUCH MUCH smoother, where in comparison the Petites DAC sounds grainy. Even teh D1 sounds grainy, and it's renown as a smooth DAC when opamps are rolled.

*Mids*
 Punchy lower mids. Vocals seem a bit more forward. Nothing out of the ordinary, only noticeable when A/Bing other DACs of obviously lesser stature. otherwise, nothing special here other than how fast it sounds. but this DAC is very fast sounding....VERY fast sounding. it doesn't seem to struggle with even crazy double kicks in metal...

*Bass*
 Strongsuit. You'll notice how much more prominent and weighty the bass is when switching from iMod to the PC...it's amazing really. It also really exposes how well your amp can handle the extreme lows, because it seems to handle really deep lows from say, Massive Attack, than it does coming from the Petite or D1. It also doesn't sound quite as grainy. Whenever I would A/B it made the other DACs sound a bit grainy...as expected, considering it's not a portable and it's it's sole purpose. 

 A nuance I noticed is the bass knob on the Lisa III. Well, not physically the amp, but because the bass is already WEIGHTY and deep, when using the bass knob on the Lisa, anything above ZERO, it distorts it and there is MAJOR flab. I'm talking, close to (not quite as bad but it's a shocker when considering the amp used) blown speaker flab and it messes up everything else, especially in the higher volumes. It's almost like you have your headphones turned up really loud and you hear the ugly bass distortion, but it happens at low volumes and only gets worse as the volume is cranked up. I'm unsure as to why it doesn't do this with other sources, but it's CLEAR when the signal is coming from the Keces. I didn't get the same distortion coming from the D1 or petite. Like i said, it's ONLY when you decide to use that knob. Otherwise, it's fine. 

 In summary, the other two are completely outclassed, even though they use of the PCM variants, it goes to show circuit implementation is CRUCIAL to the opamps performance. I have no hesitation recommending it as a budget DAC as it's a GREAT performer for the dollar. 

 If you don't NEED a portable solution, this is DEFINITELY the route to go. If you have the cash, I would get just an AMP, like a Hornet, Headsix, or Petite (or if going DIY, Mini3, XP) and use that for your portable rig, and keep something at home/office like the Lisa III mated with it, or if you don't want to sacrifice, just get a home amp, but the Lisa with ALO Au/Ag cables sounds FANTASTIC and still gives you the ability to take your amp out and about with you, if you don't mind the REALLY STUPID RCA ONLY input and 1/4 output...but it works as a transportable or desktop unit


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## courierdriver

Great review! Thanks...I'm definitely going to buy this, now. Your words only add confirmation to what I had already surmized. Now, I'm also shopping for a home-amp to complement it. I want to match this ,Little Dot MK V "Dual-Mono" Headphone Amp Amplifier! - (eBay.ca item 200200466684 end time 22-Feb-08 08:53:32 EST) to the KECES DA-151, and drive my Grado 225's. I'm betting this would be a great match with other Grado cans, too.


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## Dual

Very nice review, oicdn. I've had mine for about 2-3 months and I agree with you completely. It beats my Move, iBasso D1 modded and also the firestone Fubar USB DAC which uses the same PCM2702 chip. I just love the design of the unit, very clean and professional.

 courierdriver. I have the setup you have mentioned and it is eargasmic. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 I hope you don't mind me adding some of my setup pics.


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## davve

Great review! It's bad that it don't have the power button on the front and a power led. How is the instrument seperation?


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## oicdn

It does have a Power LED. It's under the translucent black lid. It'd bright, so trust me you know it's on. Like I said, when it's on, the Blue LED, at night, will leave an "O" on my ceiling. It's pretty neat.

 The power switch on the back I personally think it lends to it's CLEAN look.

 Nice pics Dual, it does have a nice sound with Grado's. I think I'm going to get a tube amp as well to see how my Grado's act....


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## courierdriver

Dual: Very nice pics of your setup. I wonder if you'd be so kind as to post some impressions, or do a review in a new thread, on your LD Mk-V. Just as I was taken with the build quality, and visual appearance of the KECES DA-151 USB DAC (not to mention, it's price is within my rather limited range of disposable income); the same can be said for the LD Mk-V amp. I have seen numerous threads posted on many LD, but so far nothing on the Mk. V. Some listening impressions of your amp would be much appreciated
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 oicdn: Again, great review. I'm wondering about that translucent black lid. What is it made of? Plexiglass? How thick would you say it is? Seems to me I read somwhere that the DAC could be ordered with a solid metal lid, too. I'm not sure about the sturdiness of the translucent lid, which is why I ask.


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## oicdn

The translucent lid is made of plexi-glass. So it's VERY durable, so no worries about that. I believe you can get a solid metal top, but I think the translucent lid adds a nice touch to it because you can see the innards. As far as how thick, it's about a 1/4 inch without breaking out a ruler.

 As far as that LD MkV, here's a review:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...lifier-289765/


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## courierdriver

Thanks for the info and the link, oicdn! I definitely now know, what I'm going to spring for within this year. I'm gonna start with the dac, and maybe around May (my birthday), get the LD Mk-V. I love the sound of my Grado 225's so much, and I'm dying to see what a good front end and better amplification can do for them. Then, maybe I'll find the desire/need to upgrade my cans.

 For now, I want to exploit their full potential with gear that is affordable, and has great value. That's what I always look for, when making a decision on what to buy. Stuff that competes soundwise (give or take 10%) with the higher-priced gear; but is much less expensive. IMO, the KECES DA-151 and LD Mk-V are two great examples.


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## Maniac

Hello oicdn,

 Thanks for the nice review. I'm happy to see that you like it, we take pride in optimizing the performance of our product. Some may question the performance of the PCM2702 chip, but we believe there's more performance to be had from that little chip. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We believe in pricing it at a point that provides very high C/P, because we want to share the fruit of our work. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've recently also been carrying a line of power cables from IeGO, and had started a discussion thread at AudioCircle's Industry ad forum. If anyone is interested in that, can check out the thread there.


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## oicdn

I've been comparing it to other USB dac's back to back lately (Indigo DJ, Entech 203 and 205) And I must say this unit is IMPRESSIVE. The other DACs seem to add a TAD of congestion. 

 The Indigo DJ Line out seems a bit FLAT, so flat where it somewhat kills the mids to take the life out of the music by comparison to the Keces...I still REALLY like the IDJ because I can take it with me anywhere, but when I have a Petite here, it doesn't seem to be so hot anymore....atleast, while my batteries are still working, lol.

 *edit* Just checked out those cables...whoa....very nice looking. Not a "cable guy" myself, but I wouldn't mind giving one of those a go-round, lol.


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## MaZa

Thanks oicdn! Though I have DA-131 model, which is a step up from DA-151 if I understood correctly. Since I havent heard other external DACs, just internal soundcards (M-Audio 2496 and X-Fi Elite Pro) which this one beats IME, its nice that KECES seems truly great for the buck against other cheap DACs too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wonder how KECES fares against dacs above its price range though, the DAC is the final thing im going to upgrade now, and after that my time on headphone world is finished.


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## oicdn

I'm curious as well. Not that I wouldn't like to hear what the higher end DACs have to offer, I just don't think my digital source is serious enough, or dedicated enough to warrant such a purchase. I would much rather keep it how it is, and explore my amplification options, as I feel much above both the cost and performance of the Keces unit will be fairly diminishing returns.


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## nightfishing

Can anyone offer up a comparisan of the 131 and the 151?

 I currently run an M-Audio 24/96 and could do the S/PDIF route (151) or replace the rig with a USB DAC (131).

 My current setup is noise/trouble free, so that doesn't weigh in on my decision. I am only interested in the overall sound.

 TIA.


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## thrones

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nightfishing* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone offer up a comparisan of the 131 and the 151?

 I currently run an M-Audio 24/96 and could do the S/PDIF route (151) or replace the rig with a USB DAC (131).

 My current setup is noise/trouble free, so that doesn't weigh in on my decision. I am only interested in the overall sound.

 TIA._

 

i have the same question as nightfishing really. which is better, taking into account what i want to do. i want to get my pc hooked up to my amp for flac playback. i will need to pick up a dac, and these look like attractive options. primarily the source will be PC (flac). at first i was thinking that ill just get a USB dac, but then i thought id really like to have the flexibility of coax/optical input that the 131 provides(who knows what sourcesill have later...). my pc has spdif out, but my laptop doesnt. im more inclined to use my laptop(IBM T43) for this kind of setup. if i use a USB->coax/optical converter for when i use my laptop, will this be favourable setup or should i just stick with the 151 from the beginning. i dont want to compromise PC/laptop playback on the 131 if i can just get the 151 which is usb from the get go. does this make sense?

 what kind of money do i need to spend to get a decent usb->coax/optical converter? any recommendations? 

 my setup is:
 1) shanling CD-T80 -> music fidelity x-150 amp -> spendor s3e speakers
 2) shanling or sony cd player(dne9) -> little dot MT Micro Tube -> audio technica AD1000

 would love to use this dac on system (2) mostly..and also with system (1) if i dont have the original cd 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 dont know if these are wierd combos or not..i just grabbed what was available to me at time of purchase..

 im hoping that this dac/pc setup can be as good as the shanling....


 need to pick up a turntable as well...managed to somehow pick up about 30 lps after tool released lateralus on vinyl, yet i still dont have a turntable (dont worry i hate them now...)

 looking forward to hearing more about these dacs.

 cheers


 (first post..been a lurker for a little bit!)


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## Maniac

A slight correction:

 DA-131 = SPDIF only, Toslink/Coax input selectable.
 DA-151 = USB only, slightly lower end than 131


 DA-131 is going to be superior to DA-151 if it is fed from a good digital source, such as the M-Audio card you mentioned, EMU121M, RME, or stereo component that provides SPDIF signal.


 DA-131's strength over DA-151 is mainly at frequency extension, it extends out further on both ends, and it is going to be more detailed and neutral than DA-151.


 DA-131 however was released before DA-151 and comes standard with BB's OPA604. OPA604 while good in its own regard, it is not as good as the LME49710 taht comes with DA-151, and thus we currently offers upgrade to anyone who orders DA-131.

 Just add $10 to shipping and handling, and put it in the paypal payment note and we will either include it in the package or install it for you. (Depend on how you like it, if no preference is mentioned in the note, we will just include in the package.)

 That's about it I suppose.


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## courierdriver

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oicdn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm curious as well. Not that I wouldn't like to hear what the higher end DACs have to offer, I just don't think my digital source is serious enough, or dedicated enough to warrant such a purchase. I would much rather keep it how it is, and explore my amplification options, as I feel much above both the cost and performance of the Keces unit will be fairly diminishing returns._

 

I agree. If you are using a comp as your source, I think the DA-151 is a better option, and offers great build and parts quality for it's price. If you have a fairly decent CD-player/transport (or something with a good, clean (low-jitter) SPDIF/coax/toslink output) as your source; then the 131 might be a better choice. For USB-use only though, I'm liking the 151. I guess that's the thing that bugs me about alot of the higher-priced stuff out there.

 Apogee and Benchmark DACs (for example, have great products), but they offer a multitude of connection options that I'll probably never use. That makes them too-expensive for my budget. I wish they'd just give the consumer the option of USB only, and sell something in this price range. I'd rather just have a well constructed USB-only DAC. For me, it simplifies things...and as oicdn has mentioned, leaves me free to upgrade my amp...and maybe eventually my cans. My comp and my headphones is my source and transducer, and I don't have any plans to go back to a speaker, CD or turntable-based home system. That for me, makes the DA-151 a better choice.


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## oicdn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *courierdriver* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree. If you are using a comp as your source, I think the DA-151 is a better option, and offers great build and parts quality for it's price. If you have a fairly decent CD-player/transport (or something with a good, clean (low-jitter) SPDIF/coax/toslink output) as your source; then the 131 might be a better choice. For USB-use only though, I'm liking the 151. I guess that's the thing that bugs me about alot of the higher-priced stuff out there.

 Apogee and Benchmark DACs (for example, have great products), but they offer a multitude of connection options that I'll probably never use. That makes them too-expensive for my budget. I wish they'd just give the consumer the option of USB only, and sell something in this price range. I'd rather just have a well constructed USB-only DAC. For me, it simplifies things...and as oicdn has mentioned, leaves me free to upgrade my amp...and maybe eventually my cans. My comp and my headphones is my source and transducer, and I don't have any plans to go back to a speaker, CD or turntable-based home system. That for me, makes the DA-151 a better choice._

 


 Exactly, with a PC as source, I think the diminishing returns also come into play. There's not really much you can alter a USB digital data generally speaking, whereas when you have a CDP, you have a ton of things that can come into play like CDP processor etc...not to say the same can't be said about a USB/PC, but I dunno, I just can't warrant a purchase for digital files. now if I have a huge CD collection and a dedicated CDP, sure, but with a PC...meh, not worth it, especially with the amount of SQ you get out of the Keces. I can't possibly imagine it getting better, when taking money into consideration. Sure, when money is no object, it's easy to imagine, but reality is...it does matter and I would wager this DAC being able to hang with the DAC1 (haven't heard it mind you), but meh...I just can't see it being better as the Keces circuit is very well implemented.


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## STONER1

oicdn how long did you take you to receive your 151. I just ordered one, and I dont have an amp or a decent pair of headphones yet.....damn you head-fi!!


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## fault151

where can you order one of the keces dacs from?


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## STONER1

ebay search keces


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## maarek99

Well, now I've done it...a keces-131 is on its way. I've been really disappointed with soundcard dacs (emu 0404, x-fi prelude etc) that an upgrade seems necessary.

 So which one is better sq wise, a keces-131 or the 151? If they both have the LME opamp?


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## Maniac

Actually you can order it here by PM me directly, since I'm the same guy that posts on ebay. 

 Ebay's pricing will be adjusted due to weakening US dollars and rising ebay cost (their discount only applies when you don't sell, when you do, they will recover the discount and more from the final value fees 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ), however, those who order directly from me can still enjoy the old pricing for the moment. (Subject to change of course, but it should be like that for the mean time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


 Thanks.


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## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *maarek99* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, now I've done it...a keces-131 is on its way. I've been really disappointed with soundcard dacs (emu 0404, x-fi prelude etc) that an upgrade seems necessary.

 So which one is better sq wise, a keces-131 or the 151? If they both have the LME opamp?_

 

If all things being equal, DA-131 for sure, 131 will have greater frequency extension (on both ends), more neutral sound and better sound stage to say a few.


 However, such comparison cannot be precisely judged because the source cannot be identical...


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## texashorn91

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Maniac* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_those who order directly from me can still enjoy the old pricing for the moment_

 

Can you elaborate on this a little more? What is the price direct through Paypal? I would LOVE to buy a discounted Keces and skip ebay....

 Thank you.


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## Nebby

Maniac, you may want to contact the mods or Jude to see about getting Member of the Trade status if you are going to use Head-Fi to facilitate your sales.


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## Screamager

Has anyone had a chance to compare this to the Diyeden SVDAc05 ? 
 The CS4398 has higher specs, but not sure about the actual circuit quality for the rest of that DAC in comparison to the Keces 151

Pacific Valve & Electric Company Solid State DACs

 I am undecided.


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## verbaan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *maarek99* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, now I've done it...a keces-131 is on its way. I've been really disappointed with soundcard dacs (emu 0404, x-fi prelude etc) that an upgrade seems necessary.

 So which one is better sq wise, a keces-131 or the 151? If they both have the LME opamp?_

 


 I just ordered a DA-131 for myself with the LME upgrade and ordered a DA-151 for my brother-in-law. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 If my brother-in-law lets me I may do some tests to compare the two. I'm interested to hear the differences between the two.

 Best regards,
 Ruben


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## oicdn

^^ Wow...looking forward to hearing your impressions! I don't have an optical source (worth using), so I'm anxious to hear the differences as well!


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## MaZa

An USB dac isnt necessarily better for computer use, IF you want to use your system for gaming also. If you have good soundcard for gaming, like X-Fi, you can plug normal external Dac to its digital output and there it is. It works in all modes, no need to switch cables from USB dac to soundcard and vice versa. On gaming mode the soundcard does all the necessary accelerations, 3D calculations and so on, and this signal then skips the built-in dac and opamp to external DAC, which turns it to heardable analog sound in better quality than mere soundcard. High-end gaming audio! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On X-Fi, and X-Fi prelude, its very plug-and-play installation, so easyness of installation isnt really a reason to go for USB dac on pure desktop system if better device is available.


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## nightfishing

My DA-131 made it from Taiwan to NY in 3 days!

 Unfortunately, I didn't expect Mr. Postman to pay me a Sunday visit, so I got the dreaded "Sorry, we missed you card"!

 24hrs of burn in time - LOST!


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## maarek99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MaZa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ On gaming mode the soundcard does all the necessary accelerations, 3D calculations and so on, and this signal then skips the built-in dac and opamp to external DAC, which turns it to heardable analog sound in better quality than mere soundcard. High-end gaming audio! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 On X-Fi, and X-Fi prelude..._

 

Except that the Preludes digital out will not give you any accelerations or 3d effects under Windows Vista.


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## MaZa

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *maarek99* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Except that the Preludes digital out will not give you any accelerations or 3d effects under Windows Vista._

 

But that is a problem with Vista drivers, not in the card itself.


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## nightfishing

ignore the interconnects (LOL).

 Will do some proper ABx'ing once she's broken in, but initial impressions are VERY positive. First thing I *seem* to hear is much more punch in the mids (vocals jump out at you).

 No issues with setup (Laptop (foobar+ASIO+S/PDIF>MAudioUSB>DA-131>Preamp). Was up and running in 2 minutes.

 Build quality (as has been mentioned) is excellent.

 Cust. service was great; ordered it on W and it was at my door on S.


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## maarek99

Argh, my Keces has arrived in the customs. And I just blew up my computer. Oh darn.


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## cresny

I've had the DA-151 for a couple of days now. Before this I was just using the audio out of a very good motherboard (Intel BX2) plugged into a decent old-school NAD amp and some B&W speakers. So, I don't know how I tolerated it before, but now it really is like two layers of gauze have been taken off the speakers. 

 Of course I expected a significant improvement over onboard sound, so I was curious to hear how it compared to CD. I have what was once considered a very good Denon CD player, and I performed an A/B test using some favorite tracks (from Radiohead's In Rainbows - IMO there's no better band for A/B testing
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). I listened to each track on CD first, pushing the volume to the loudest it could get and still be enjoyable, then did same with same track in FLAC with the Keces. 

 With each track it became increasingly apparent that there was just no contest. The sound through the Keces was more open, with clearer separation; detailed, more punctuated highs, tighter, more controlled bass. What really stuck me was how much better it sounded at louder volumes. Through the CD, the threshold at which the music turned into a murky jumble was significantly lower. Unfortunately I don't have the equipment or living conditions to really push the Keces sound further.

 So now for the first time, I'm realizing I am going to have to rip my whole CD collection if I really want quality sound - that's going to be fun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Newbie that I am, I don't have another DAC to compare the DA-151 to. But as others have mentioned, it's very well put together, a solid and attractive piece that seems to be built to a high standard. I've paid a lot more for less. Also, it arrived well packed in 3 days to NY. Good stuff, Keces!


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## xnothingpoetic

Soon to be new owner here. 
 In the process of redoing entire rig.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nightfishing* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cust. service was great; ordered it on W and it was at my door on S._

 

So you got it before you ordered it?


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## Maniac

Way cool 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm really happy that you guys like it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you hear something you don't like after the run-in/burn-in period, please let me know and I'll see about how to improve our product. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 thanks everyone


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## lromlin

Here's another very happy customer  Just need a better amp but the DAC sure made it more fun to listen.


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## rockabillybass

Hey Maniac, can you answer this for me..

 How long is the burn in period and what differences in performance will I see? 

 I'm very happy with my 151. Great bass and a warm musical sound so far..


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## sidsata86

New to head-fi here. Ordered my Keces 151 and excited to hear it. I'm going to run my speaker system from it. LM3886 gainclone amp running a pair of Natalie P MTM DIY speakers. I really think the Keces will let the Natalie P's shine. Has anyone tried a similar setup? 

 Sid


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## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rockabillybass* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Maniac, can you answer this for me..

 How long is the burn in period and what differences in performance will I see? 

 I'm very happy with my 151. Great bass and a warm musical sound so far.._

 

Well, IMHO it should be about 200 hours until everything settles down to a point of relatively few changes. Just use it as you would normally and it will eventually run its course.


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## nyc_paramedic

Maniac, is the DA-151 a "usb-direct-I2S" DAC?


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## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nyc_paramedic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maniac, is the DA-151 a "usb-direct-I2S" DAC?_

 

Hello, it is using PCM2702's internal DAC, the receiver itself is also the DAC, and thus there's no need to send the digital signal outside of the chip.


 Thanks.


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## tjumper78

postponed the pico purchase due to some financial situation, and placed an order for da-151.
 the waiting game sucks but i am extremely excited.
 i was quite happy with a cheap usb dac(diyeden svdac04) before, and i cant wait to try da-151. guessing from what i've read on this thread, i think i made a good decision.


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## STONER1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tjumper78* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_postponed the pico purchase due to some financial situation, and placed an order for da-151.
 the waiting game sucks but i am extremely excited.
 i was quite happy with a cheap usb dac(diyeden svdac04) before, and i cant wait to try da-151. guessing from what i've read on this thread, i think i made a good decision._

 


 Congrats on the purchase. You will not be disappointed. I ordered mine 2 weeks ago and have been enjoying it immensely. Shipping didn't take long either I was surprised how fast international mail can be delivered.


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## mlarn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tjumper78* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_postponed the pico purchase due to some financial situation, and placed an order for da-151.
 the waiting game sucks but i am extremely excited.
 i was quite happy with a cheap usb dac(diyeden svdac04) before, and i cant wait to try da-151. guessing from what i've read on this thread, i think i made a good decision._

 

I am very interested in your opinion of the Keces as compared to the Super Pro DAC 707. These are two newer lowish-cost DAC's ($250 vs $109) that have recently come out and very few people have heard more than one so as to be able to compare them. When you have had a chance to listen to the Keces, please let us know how they compare.
 Thanks!


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## ubermang

will da-151 be a good match with gilmore lite and sennheiser hd600?


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## tjumper78

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mlarn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am very interested in your opinion of the Keces as compared to the Super Pro DAC 707. These are two newer lowish-cost DAC's ($250 vs $109) that have recently come out and very few people have heard more than one so as to be able to compare them. When you have had a chance to listen to the Keces, please let us know how they compare.
 Thanks!_

 

i havent received my da-151 yet (should be arriving today or tomorrow) but i think it'll be many times better than the super pro dac 707 usb. 
 i prevoulsy had the super pro which i paid about $100. it did its job alright but it was no match for diyeden SVDAC04 usb($159) which is not really a high-end dac either. from what i've read and heard, da-151 is on another level from those two. i've been without a dac for almost a month and i cant wait to get my hands on the da-151.


----------



## Hopstretch

Can anyone provide the dimensions of this unit? Maniac? You might want to add the measurements to your marketing material.


----------



## oicdn

Without breaking out a ruler, it's like 8 inches x 8 inches, and about 3 inches tall not counting the feet (the unit itself).


----------



## tjumper78

got mine today.





 connected to gilmore lite, 2 hours of listen with hd650 and dt990.
 so far so good. =)))


----------



## xnothingpoetic

The my MAX is restricted in the bass a little. 

 So I naturally had to boost the bass a few db <110hz 

 Then a few days ago I was listing to my system and noticed the bass had good punch and depth to it, but I remembered I had EQ off! Wasn't as big as EQ, but it was a noticeable improvement, but any lack of bass is now held accountable to the amp. 

 I think I am coming up on 100 hours or so. Anyone else notice improvement in bass around this time?

 I also had sibilance the fews few hours, but that is long gone. 

 I can post more in depth impression by easter.


----------



## oicdn

The DAC really blossoms around the 80 hour mark, after that, the next big step was around the 400 mark, and in comparison wasn't nearly as large, and everything after that was nothing really notable.

 I handles bass on some tracks that my iPods only distort or can't really handle and clip. I notice there are some Wu-Tang and Method Man songs that have some CRAZY deep and impactful bass that can only be realized when playing through the Keces unit.

 There are also some electronic songs that I have that have some PIERCING highs that I have only been able to hear when on my laptop. All other genres basically just have been given a new life, but the afore mentioned two are really what stand out.

 It's definitly highly recommended. I can't speak for the DA131 though.


----------



## kamal007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tjumper78* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_got mine today.




 connected to gilmore lite, 2 hours of listen with hd650 and dt990.
 so far so good. =)))_

 

out of topic but what kind of cable is on the HD650? looks amazing!


----------



## tjumper78

used along with gilmore lite, da-151 is really making my hd650 and dt990 sing


----------



## jilgiljongiljing

tjumper78 when are you gonna write a detailed review of this DAC, gotta have more details.

 Also, has anyone compared the DA-151 with the SVDAC05 or the Musiland MD-10 yet? The price is just about the same and those use the CS4398 top of the line chip. So a direct comparison would definitely help.


----------



## bunbut

I don't think many people own multiple USB DACs like they own multiple headphones. So it is hard to get a shootout reviews.

 I have a Constantine+ USB DAC, and willing to send to someone has other USB DACs to do the comparision. Ofcourse I will pay for the postage both ways to get my DAC back after the review.

 Hope other people with other USB DACs willing to send in their DACs and someone willing to do the comparision review for us.

 So step up and help us out.

 Thanks


----------



## tjumper78

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jilgiljongiljing* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_tjumper78 when are you gonna write a detailed review of this DAC, gotta have more details.

 Also, has anyone compared the DA-151 with the SVDAC05 or the Musiland MD-10 yet? The price is just about the same and those use the CS4398 top of the line chip. So a direct comparison would definitely help._

 

i'll try to take some pics and do a short review later when i get home from work. dont expect much since i dont have the audiophile lingo of headphoneus supremuses. i've used super pro dac 70 usb, diyeden svdac04, and emu 0404 previously.


----------



## HDen

Just ordered one of these, will be using it with a Gilmore Lite and D5000's w/silverdragon recable


----------



## Phenic

I was thinking of getting this too to pair up with my Gilmore Lite and Darths.


----------



## mlarn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tjumper78* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i'll try to take some pics and do a short review later when i get home from work. dont expect much since i dont have the audiophile lingo of headphoneus supremuses. i've used super pro dac 70 usb, diyeden svdac04, and emu 0404 previously._

 

Any more updates?


----------



## texashorn91

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tjumper78* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i'll try to take some pics and do a short review later when i get home from work. i've used super pro dac 70 usb, diyeden svdac04, and emu 0404 previously._

 

This would be an amazing comparison. Can't wait to see it compared to the EMU! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thank you very much, keep us updated.


----------



## xnothingpoetic

I will (hopefully) be able to compare my Keces to an 0404 by Apr. 19th at the Chicago meet. 


 Impressions will certainly follow.


----------



## Maniac

Cool! I'd love to hear how they stack up against each other.


----------



## booom

me thinks i should postpone my dac purchase until some of these comparative reviews come out.

 a quick question:

 has anyone tried plugging their cans directly into the line out using a rca-to-mini adaptor?


----------



## courierdriver

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *booom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 a quick question:

 has anyone tried plugging their cans directly into the line out using a rca-to-mini adaptor?_

 

I don't believe you can do this on the KECES DA-151, as it is a line-level SOURCE. It has a fixed output (probably somewhere between 2-2.2 volts at the RCA line-outs...Maniac, maybe you could clarify??) As a result, you would need to add an amp to control the volume.


----------



## Maniac

Indeed some users have tried to use it to drive headphone directly, and the result is not optimal, and nor do we recommend that.

 It have an output impedance of about 100~200ohm, which is very low for a line source, but way too high for driving headphones. Not to mention that the volume control via computer is quite damaging to sound quality (which is why I told almost every DA-151 buyer to set volume to 100%).

 It is best to use another amp to control the volume and drive your headphone, it would result in much better sound than letting DAC drive it directly.


 Thanks.

 David Wei


----------



## booom

thanks david,

 looks like i'm gonna have to save up for a keces and an amp. i have no doubt it'll be worth the wait.


----------



## HDen

I've just setup mine, it definately sounds crisp and it's more detailed than the iBasso D1 DAC, however I think it lacks punch(?), and impact...

 Either way I need to burn-in the DAC and the interconnects, I'm sure it'll get much better later on...


----------



## mlarn

Anyone with updates on this unit?

 Any impressions would be much apprecaited!


----------



## onlychild

Mine should be here tomorrow or Saturday and will post some thoughts after proper burn-in.

 This has been a great week for me, but a bad one for my wallet.

 So far this week I got the HD650s, a DA-151, and a Darkvoice 332. I think I am all set now for my home rig.


----------



## texashorn91

That is a wonderful setup. I'm sure you will enjoy it! It would be great to hear your impressions once the Keces arrives.


----------



## onlychild

Quick shipment. Just got it setup with less than 1 hour so far. I only have the ibasso D2 (stock opamps) DAC section to compare against. Currently I am running it through the input (amp only section) of the ibasso D2. 

 Compared to the D2 it is definitely clearer, crisper, punchier, and much much faster. Wakes up my HD650. When I switch back to the D2 DAC it sounds slow, much slower, and a litter darker. The Keces has a lot better separation too. Though one thing that is lacking is the deeper bass I hear in the D2. I think this is mainly due to burn-in. 

 You really have to take everything I said with a grain of salt because the Keces is not even close to being burned in. I just wanted to post some initial impressions and to keep the thread going.


----------



## psc001

I wish Keces had an extra input besides USB. Anyway, what would be the best headphone amp to match with the Keces within $300-400 range?


----------



## HDen

psc001, in my opinion the gilmore lite is a great amp to match with this dac, it's transparent and really shows the qualities of the keces dac (crisp, rich details, fast)

 Again, mine only has little hours, so it's far from being burned in...
 I can now notice much more detail than with my ibasso d1, things that I had never heard before in songs are now apparent.


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *psc001* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wish Keces had an extra input besides USB. Anyway, what would be the best headphone amp to match with the Keces within $300-400 range?_

 

Our model is currently split between SPDIF only and USB only, so it would have to be either USB or SPDIF.


----------



## analogbox

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *psc001* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wish Keces had an extra input besides USB. Anyway, what would be the best headphone amp to match with the Keces within $300-400 range?_

 

I agree. It's kinda hard to find a decent DAC with USB AND optical/coaxial input. If DA-151 had an optical input in addition to USB, it would be a killer DAC, IMO. But again, most people won't need both anyway.


----------



## psc001

Maniac, is there any option to add inputs and outputs for extra...? I think that would solve my problem and use Keces as pseudo-preamp and drive a headphone amp! I'd pay for that kinda of options!!!


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *psc001* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maniac, is there any option to add inputs and outputs for extra...? I think that would solve my problem and use Keces as pseudo-preamp and drive a headphone amp! I'd pay for that kinda of options!!!_

 


 So far it is not an option with the current design. We are thinking about ways to add more feature to the DAC, and I don't think we will have such features in the very recent future.


 Thanks.


----------



## Fud

Hmm, I missed might have missed this option in my search for a budget DAC had I not clicked a thread in the Amp section on a whim =P Shouldn't this be in the source section?

 Needless to say, I'm seriously considering this over the Zero and Beresford now. I still have yet to find anyone reaching a consensus over optical vs. usb vs. coaxial so I'm hesitant to choose the keces over the others.

 Any chance other keces owners have had the zero or beresford and can give impressions? There are less keces owners then zero or beresford owners, so the "find me a budget DAC" polls are unfairly inaccurate.


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fud* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm, I missed might have missed this option in my search for a budget DAC had I not clicked a thread in the Amp section on a whim =P Shouldn't this be in the source section?

 Needless to say, I'm seriously considering this over the Zero and Beresford now. I still have yet to find anyone reaching a consensus over optical vs. usb vs. coaxial so I'm hesitant to choose the keces over the others.

 Any chance other keces owners have had the zero or beresford and can give impressions? There are less keces owners then zero or beresford owners, so the "find me a budget DAC" polls are unfairly inaccurate._

 

I can't say much for Zero or Beresford since I hae never had the chance to try them, however, there is something I can say about the digital input interfaces.

 If you are not sure about the difference between SPDIF optical and SPDIF Coax, just try them out with the lowest/cheapest possible cable of each and try them out.


 My own experience is that even when we are using the "gift grade" (the kind that comes free with almost any equipments.) optical and coax (the coax was intended for composite video even), the coax beats optical soundly. Of course, YMMV due to the equipment you use, but I can say that this should apply to most people here.

 And no, I did not DBT it, I test it with my friend while fully expecting the optical to win, but winning it did not.


----------



## VeipaCray

Maniac > I got a chance to listen to xnothingpoetic's Keces DAC at the Chicago meet yesterday. I am very impressed with the SQ over my current Entech 203.2 DAC.


----------



## xnothingpoetic

Glad you like it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I also had a chance to listen to the EMU 0404 that day as well.

 Keep in mind these "impressions" were in a noisy room, and I only spent less than a min. with the Keces and the EMU together. (too lazy to keep switching back and forth- especially when a Zana and K340 where right next to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )

 Anyway, the differences were noticeable, but small. Both were actually very similar and you couldn't go wrong with either one, BUT the Keces was better in most every area by a _slight _margin. The Emu was a tad darker/warmer- less pronounced treble, possibly less detail. Keces also seemed to have better imaging capabilities, nothing seemed to get clouded together- all instruments were separated.

 That is all I can recall, and I'm sorry I can't offer any more.


----------



## Maniac

As for me, I'll really glad you all like it.


----------



## tjumper78

da-151 gives me huge soundstage. wide and surrounding.
 there's no coloration of the sound. the sound from emu0404 was cold, and the sound from diyeden svdac04 was kinda colored warm.
 when i had emu0404, i thought it had good details and treble, maybe because it was cold sounding. but it's got nothing on da-151. to hear da-151's great detail and treble, you dont even have to listen closely/carefully. you just hear it, and it never gets boring.
 there's plenty of bass, and it's clean and lean.
 when i paired da151 with gilmore lite w/ dps, the sound was pretty good but there was just something missing. i just couldnt point out what. 
 paired with little-dot mkiv se, the sound is perfect for my ears.
 huge soundstage, amazing bass, smooth and warm sound without losing any details and sparkles.
 maybe i just like the tube sound better.
 imo, da151 pairs better with tube amps. 
 in about a month, i'll be able to compare da151 to pico's dac section.


----------



## VeipaCray

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xnothingpoetic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Glad you like it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also had a chance to listen to the EMU 0404 that day as well.

 Keep in mind these "impressions" were in a noisy room, and I only spent less than a min. with the Keces and the EMU together. (too lazy to keep switching back and forth- especially when a Zana and K340 where right next to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )

 Anyway, the differences were noticeable, but small. Both were actually very similar and you couldn't go wrong with either one, BUT the Keces was better in most every area by a slight margin. The Emu was a tad darker/warmer- less pronounced treble, possibly less detail. Keces also seemed to have better imaging capabilities, nothing seemed to get clouded together- all instruments were separated.

 That is all I can recall, and I'm sorry I can't offer any more._

 


 Not to mention the Keces looks much better than the 0404. The 0404 is of good quality, but it looks like an entry level home recording type toy when sitting next to the Keces DAC. The transparent top of the Keces is a nice touch as well.


----------



## skeptic

Has anyone had a chance to compare the keces 151 to a keces 131, connected via a stock X-fi card?

 It looks like some of the modifications discussed in the X-fi mod are aimed at the path leading up to the digital output. Does this mean that the 1's and 0's of a bit perfect ASIO output, flowing from the X-fi's digital flexijack are actually being lost/corrupted absent these mods?

 I would love to be able to keep my X-fi in the system to reduce the load on my cpu (as compared to USB sound) but I'd hate to cash out for a 131 only to learn that the DAC is receiving a degraded digital signal from the X-fi. In that event, I would likely lean towards the 151, or maybe a Trends + 131 combo.

 Thanks for any comments any of you are able to offer.


----------



## electropop

I am totally inspired by this thread.
 I am going to buy the Bada ph12 hybrid amp. And to this point i've been looking for the perfect dac, and i'm rather convinced that i've found it!

 Okay so here's the question:

 Where is the best place to order one? I live in Finland.
 Where did you guys order yours?

 Thanksies for helpsies!


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *electropop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am totally inspired by this thread.
 I am going to buy the Bada ph12 hybrid amp. And to this point i've been looking for the perfect dac, and i'm rather convinced that i've found it!

 Okay so here's the question:

 Where is the best place to order one? I live in Finland.
 Where did you guys order yours?

 Thanksies for helpsies!_

 

Well, actually just PM me and I'll provide you with info on ordering KECES products. I'm the same guy that sells KECES product on ebay, and there will be a $10 discount on every unit ordered without going through ebay.


----------



## Screamager

I received notification from the post office yesterday, will be picking up my 131 after work today. Will be pairing it with a HAGUsb, Excited!


----------



## spacemanspliff

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Screamager* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received notification from the post office yesterday, will be picking up my 131 after work today. Will be pairing it with a HAGUsb, Excited!_

 

um the 131 only has a usb input. the hag usb does not have a usb output? so how the heck will that work?


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *spacemanspliff* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_um the 131 only has a usb input. the hag usb does not have a usb output? so how the heck will that work?_

 

Sorry, our numbering scheme is a bit confusing, actually 151 is the USB input one while 131 is the one with SPDIF input.


 Thanks.


----------



## VeipaCray

The 131 with the LME chip upgrade sounds incredible.


----------



## HDen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *VeipaCray* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 131 with the LME chip upgrade sounds incredible._

 

upgrade? are there any for the 151?


----------



## VeipaCray

The 131 is older and the LME "upgrade" for it is actually the chip that is shipping in the 151. So if you own a 151, you already have the LME chip. The 131 ships with a burr brown by default.


----------



## Screamager

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *VeipaCray* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 131 with the LME chip upgrade sounds incredible._

 

Thats what I have waiting for me at the post office.


----------



## glitch39

very very happy with my Da-151 as well. big soundstage and indeed matches better with tube amp than SS.


----------



## VeipaCray

It was hard to do a A / B comparison between the burr brown 131 and the LME 131 due to the amount of time elapsed during the chip replacement. You would honestly need two 131's side by side with the respective chips installed to do a fair A / B comparison. I listened to the burr brown 131, wrote down some thoughts on paper did the chip upgrade and wrote down some thoughts.

 To me the 131 with the LME chip had much deeper fuller richer sounding bass. My RS-1's are still fairly new and were a little bright sounding. The Keces DAC gave them a fuller more complete sound. The LME chip took that one step further... definitely worth the $10 for the upgrade. The mids are clean, the highs are very prominent without being harsh or annoying. The bass is nice and punchy... a great DAC if you ask me.

 A friend of mine was over during the comparison. He is just in the "curiosity" stages of head-fi (his wallet hasn't flown open and began leaking yet). I asked him his initial impressions and thoughts of the sound from the Keces 131. He described to me in his own words the soundstage being very nice. As he put it you could hear separation between the various instruments as if you could walk through the band.


----------



## HDen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *VeipaCray* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 131 is older and the LME "upgrade" for it is actually the chip that is shipping in the 151. So if you own a 151, you already have the LME chip. The 131 ships with a burr brown by default._

 

ah ok I see


----------



## G.Kennedy

My 151 showed up today ... fast shipping, excellent packaging .... outta the box and into the system in 5 mins ... plug and play.

 First impressions ... with zero hours on the unit ... clear tight highs ... and plenty of bass ... great separation.

 Playing Apple Lossless from G3 Laptop>DAC>Vestax mixer>300B tubes>Klipsch La Scalas.

 I have not tried it with headphone system yet.

 The 151 is replacing a Imic .... which ... with 5 mins of having a "real" DAC ... there is no comparison. The Imic was chopping off the highs and lows.

 I will post back when I get some more time on it and run some of my standard tracks.


----------



## mojolo

for those who can read Chinese, is this a BIN auction on taobao.com?

 Price is only 998 RMB or about US$ 143 for the Keces 151.


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mojolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_for those who can read Chinese, is this a BIN auction on taobao.com?

 Price is only 998 RMB or about US$ 143 for the Keces 151._

 

Thanks for the info, I have gotten into contact with KECES owner regarding this auction, as my cost alone is higher than the price that they are selling. They have informed me that the item was listed by a reseller with no actual stock at all, to prevent further chaos, they have ask the reseller to end the auction unless they it actually in stock. The price post was not the actual price, but the reseller's guess of how it would cost him and how much he would like to sell it at. Since he never got it in stock, he never got the actual cost figure worked out either.

 Hope this clears up the confusion.

 Thanks.

 David Wei


----------



## mojolo

lol. that was pretty presumptuous of him to list an item he didn't actually have at a best guesstimate price.


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mojolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_lol. that was pretty presumptuous of him to list an item he didn't actually have at a best guesstimate price. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm not quite sure what they were thinking about by doing this, since AFAIK they never actually sold even one single unit of DA-151.


----------



## Screamager

I got the DA-131 on Friday and Saturday afternoon finally got a chance to try it out. 

 I was using a Ubuntu linux laptop with a HAGUSB connected to the keces via a heavy duty 3m 75Ohm screeened interconnect (I read somewhere that there was potential issues with short coaxial cables transmitting digital sound, wanted 2m but in the end I had to go with 3m if I wanted it pre-made).

 When I started using it, it sounded very good but a every 10 seconds or so I heard some horrible jitter. I went crazy looking for settings to adjust thinking it must be something to do with the HAgUSB, but found nothing. I was very dissapointed. However, out of nowhere, after 15 minutes or so, jitter vanished and I was left with nice clean, clear sound. I dont really understand it.

 I loved the sound, but I will wait to comment on it untill I get more time with it and I can do an A/B cmparison with my old source which was the analog out on a M-Audio Audiophile 2496 on my desktop. So in the next few days. But my first impressions are very good.


----------



## KPT

I ordered my 151 last week and it was delivered to Australia within two working days. Now, that is some kind of service.
 And it sounds great!

 I am sort of wondering about Vista audio device setup (please dont bash me about Vista)... 

 The existing audio devices can be disabled easily in the OS leaving only the 151 (which Vista recognised and installed in about 5 seconds) active. Is simply disabling the other audio devices enough, or would doing it in the BIOS offer some advantage? And is it okay to leave one part of another audio device enabled - specifically the HD audio input provided by the onboard chip?


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KPT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered my 151 last week and it was delivered to Australia within two working days. Now, that is some kind of service.
 And it sounds great!

 I am sort of wondering about Vista audio device setup (please dont bash me about Vista)... 

 The existing audio devices can be disabled easily in the OS leaving only the 151 (which Vista recognised and installed in about 5 seconds) active. Is simply disabling the other audio devices enough, or would doing it in the BIOS offer some advantage? And is it okay to leave one part of another audio device enabled - specifically the HD audio input provided by the onboard chip?_

 

Disabling it is usually enough.

 For people who have a sort of dual setup, where sound card is used for games and USB DAC is used for music. You can default it to play via sound card while use Foobar's setup to force music to be sent to USB DAC (or DA-151) for output.


 Thanks


----------



## G.Kennedy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Maniac* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_........ Not to mention that the volume control via computer is quite damaging to sound quality (which is why I told almost every DA-151 buyer to set volume to 100%).........._

 

Hmmm ... I am wondering if I am one of those peeps that should NOT use 100% volume.

 I am having a good bit of distortion with everything set to max.

 Here is my signal path.

 Mac G3 laptop (400mhz Pismo), Keces 151, Vestax mixer, 300b tube monoblocks, Klipsch La Scalas. Using the Vestax as volume control.

 It does not matter what kind of file I stream .... with the laptop volume set to max.... I get distortion. I also find I am dialing down the Vestax mixer way more than I have in the past. Seems like the signal out of the Laptop/151 is very hot.

 If I set the volume to 1/2 .... and dial up the Vestax .... the sound is way cleaner.

 Any thoughts on this ....


----------



## G.Kennedy

OK .... here is an update on my settings.

 I can run the G3 laptop main volume at 100% .... but I have to run the iTunes volume at 50%. This combo gives me perfect undistorted sound.

 My system has plenty of amplification, so I am not lacking any volume at the speaker ... still have not tried my Can setup yet ... maybe today.

 I have also tried my G4 iBook and the settings are the same.

 Just seems like too much Gain coming out of the laptop.


----------



## shomie911

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *G.Kennedy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK .... here is an update on my settings.

 I can run the G3 laptop main volume at 100% .... but I have to run the iTunes volume at 50%. This combo gives me perfect undistorted sound.

 My system has plenty of amplification, so I am not lacking any volume at the speaker ... still have not tried my Can setup yet ... maybe today.

 I have also tried my G4 iBook and the settings are the same.

 Just seems like too much Gain coming out of the laptop._

 

I am not sure how it is on a Mac but the computer isn't supposed to control the volume, you want it set to send the information directly to the DAC without modifying it (by letting the computer digitally manage the volume.)


----------



## VeipaCray

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Screamager* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got the DA-131 on Friday and Saturday afternoon finally got a chance to try it out._

 

Did you start out with the LME chip or the Burr Browns? You posted earlier that you were waiting for the 131 with the LME upgrade. Just curious as to your comparison of the two DAC chips if you did an A/B.


----------



## G.Kennedy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shomie911* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am not sure how it is on a Mac but the computer isn't supposed to control the volume, you want it set to send the information directly to the DAC without modifying it (by letting the computer digitally manage the volume.)_

 

Yep ... I understand that .... but ....

 I think I am discovering ... it is only on some music ... probably poor recordings.

 All day yesterday I was running everything at 100% ... sounded great....controling the volume with the mixer. Late in the day I played Bonnie Prince Billy's - Master and Everyone ... which is mellow strumming music. Distortion ... even at low listening levels.

 Once I lowered the itunes volume (not the laptop main out) .... I could crank the mixer volume to the moon.

 Weird .... I'll keep playing. Today I will hook the laptop and 151 to my headphone rig ... and play the same track ...see how it works. This will eliminate the mixer .. which is the weakest component in my 2ch system


----------



## shomie911

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *G.Kennedy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep ... I understand that .... but ....

 I think I am discovering ... it is only on some music ... probably poor recordings.

 All day yesterday I was running everything at 100% ... sounded great....controling the volume with the mixer. Late in the day I played Bonnie Prince Billy's - Master and Everyone ... which is mellow strumming music. Distortion ... even at low listening levels.

 Once I lowered the itunes volume (not the laptop main out) .... I could crank the mixer volume to the moon.

 Weird .... I'll keep playing. Today I will hook the laptop and 151 to my headphone rig ... and play the same track ...see how it works. This will eliminate the mixer .. which is the weakest component in my 2ch system_

 

My linux laptop does the same thing when I set the PCM level above 75%.

 It most likely isn't the recording, but a setting gone awry,


----------



## Golden Monkey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *courierdriver* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dual: Very nice pics of your setup. I wonder if you'd be so kind as to post some impressions, or do a review in a new thread, on your LD Mk-V. Just as I was taken with the build quality, and visual appearance of the KECES DA-151 USB DAC (not to mention, it's price is within my rather limited range of disposable income); the same can be said for the LD Mk-V amp. I have seen numerous threads posted on many LD, but so far nothing on the Mk. V. Some listening impressions of your amp would be much appreciated
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I have the LD MKV and Senn 650's. I also have a 151 at my disposal, but have yet to try them together. Hearing the DAC with Denon D2000's and a XS 708b though...sounds pretty nice. If I get the chance to mate the 151 with the MKV though, I'll let you guys know.

 By itself, the MKV is a great amp for the money...I'm falling in love with some of my music all over again, but I'm getting off topic...


----------



## G.Kennedy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shomie911* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My linux laptop does the same thing when I set the PCM level above 75%.

 It most likely isn't the recording, but a setting gone awry,_

 



 Again ... after listening more today .. I think your right ... its the Mac for sure ... not the recordings.

 Running the volume at 75% ... give me great sound and plenty of volume at the knob ....

 Maybe it could be better if I could run at 100% ... but it seems to be a bad combo here ....


----------



## Maniac

Hummm, can you take a look at the file in a Wave editor and see if the actual audio is clipped or not? I have seen a few that have clipped recording but only show up clearly with certain settings.


----------



## Screamager

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *VeipaCray* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you start out with the LME chip or the Burr Browns? You posted earlier that you were waiting for the 131 with the LME upgrade. Just curious as to your comparison of the two DAC chips if you did an A/B._

 

I started off with the LME chips (Although I believe the BurrBrowns came in the box separetly too. No A/B check yet. Got a chance to use the DAC last night for a party, and even driving the secondary system outside on the terrace (old Kenwood mid-sized stereo) the sound was very good. from 22:00 to about 7:30 the system poured out great quality sound.

 Hopefully this week I can do an A/B with the HagUSB->DA-131 vs Audiophile 24/96.

 As for the BurrBrown vs LME, I will probably be lazier for that. Due to having to open up the DAC and stuff, I spend most of the day with installations and support for PCs and AV equipment, when I get home I just want to enjoy the music.


----------



## ktm

I am currently using a usb Monica. The only thing I don't like is even
 with the built in gain stage, the output is lower than most CDP's.
 I wonder if this would sound like the Monica?
 Between the low output, and a low gain tube preamp, It 
 has me thinking about this DAC. Any do a side by side?


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ktm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am currently using a usb Monica. The only thing I don't like is even
 with the built in gain stage, the output is lower than most CDP's.
 I wonder if this would sound like the Monica?
 Between the low output, and a low gain tube preamp, It 
 has me thinking about this DAC. Any do a side by side?_

 

KECES DA-131 and DA-151 are all designed and built so that it will output 2V RMS signal, which is about the most common "standard" for analog output level from RCA connectors. I'm not sure what's the level of USB Monica is set to output, but I so far have not found the KECES' 2V RMS setting to be inadequate.


----------



## oicdn

According to here: 

41Hz Audio Forum - USB Monica, volume control options

 The Monica only outputs .5V...pretty weak as it's too weak for his speaker system, but a 2V works just fine. I'm curious though, as to why the output voltage is so low...


----------



## PhaedrusX

the Monica originally used passive current to voltage conversion, resulting in lower output voltage.

 the Rudolf Broertjes SS I/V Gain Stage was added not so much to add output, but to increase dynamics and bass response. this was using a 3.3kohm resistor in the gain stage, as spec'd for the TDA1545A Dac chip.

 by using a larger resistor (up to 10kohm), you can use a higher voltage power supply (up to 24V), which will increase the output further. you should add a heatsink to the voltage regulator at this point, but you can increase the output voltage to over 1.0V this way, enough for most systems i believe (haven't tried with speakers as of yet).


----------



## tjumper78

after waiting for 3 months and more, i finally received my headamp pico. it has a high-end wolfson dac in it.
 i compared its dac section vs da151.
 to my ears, da151 was clearly better than pico's dac.
 da151 brought out more prominent bass, more sparkling sound, and more details to every bit.
 one thing to note is that my pico had something dangling/moving inside and i am sending it back to headamp. i wont find out what was moving inside until headamp examines it. it could have affected the sq. i'll post again when i get the pico back.


----------



## badmonkey

Forgive the noob question, but I have just decided to consider external DACs after getting frustrated looking at internal soundcards as an upgrade from an M-Audio Revo 7.1.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Maniac* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello, it is using PCM2702's internal DAC, the receiver itself is also the DAC, and thus there's no need to send the digital signal outside of the chip.
 Thanks._

 

Maniac, in your experience how does this DAC chip compare to the ones on these cards?

  Code:


```
[left]CardDAC ------------------------------------------- Prodigy 7.1 HiFiWM8766 Prodigy HD2AK4396 E-MU 0404AK4396 E-MU 1212CS4398 HT Omega Claro+AK4396VF Auzentech PreludeAK4396 Auzentech X-MeridianAK4396VF Onkyo PCI-SE200WM8740 Juli@AK4358 Asus Xonar D2PCM1796[/left]
```

I am trying, without the benefit of experience, to gauge the realistic differences and what improvements I may expect.


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *badmonkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Forgive the noob question, but I have just decided to consider external DACs after getting frustrated looking at internal soundcards as an upgrade from an M-Audio Revo 7.1.


 Maniac, in your experience how does this DAC chip compare to the ones on these cards?

  Code:



		Code:
	

[left]CardDAC ------------------------------------------- Prodigy 7.1 HiFiWM8766 Prodigy HD2AK4396 E-MU 0404AK4396 E-MU 1212CS4398 HT Omega Claro+AK4396VF Auzentech PreludeAK4396 Auzentech X-MeridianAK4396VF Onkyo PCI-SE200WM8740 Juli@AK4358 Asus Xonar D2PCM1796[/left]


I am trying, without the benefit of experience, to gauge the realistic differences and what improvements I may expect._

 



 Hello, it won't be accurate to compare a product simply by comparing the DAC chip itself, as it would be rather like comparing cars just checking their horsepower rating and not the rest of the car itself. As the components and designs of the rest of the unit is critical to its performance, just a good DAC along is not guarantee of its performance.

 I cannot reasonably say that which one of the above is going to be better or worse than our DACs, what I can really say is that most of them will not have as good as the analog output of KECES DAC. As well if you are going to use DA-131, I can honestly recommend 1212M as the digital source of DA-131 as the digital output quality of 1212M is of very high quality and pairs well with DA-131.


----------



## TheMarchingMule

Huh, I just realized that the KECES DA-151 model utilizes USB 1.1, and not USB 2.0.

 Just curious: any reasons for using 1.1, and not 2.0?


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheMarchingMule* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Huh, I just realized that the KECES DA-151 model utilizes USB 1.1, and not USB 2.0.

 Just curious: any reasons for using 1.1, and not 2.0?_

 

Simple, one of the best sounding USB DAC chip around is PCM2702, and it supports only USB 1.1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That's the chip we use now, and we could not find a similar chip that works at higher sampling rate and USB 2.0


----------



## TheMarchingMule

Simple enough. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So is the only downside of using USB 1.1 that one cannot listen to 24-bit music?

 Regardless, after reading this thread, I need to find a lot of loose cash soon.


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheMarchingMule* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Simple enough. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So is the only downside of using USB 1.1 that one cannot listen to 24-bit music?

 Regardless, after reading this thread, I need to find a lot of loose cash soon. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You still can listen to them, but Windows will downsample them to 16bit and some appropriate sample rate. If you need to do that, I recommend using Foobar's SSRC or simply go with DA-131 directly.


----------



## John Reeves

Hi,

 I'm currently using a Juli@ fed into Linn speakers, obviously by an appropriate amp. FLAC on a jukebox PC (Actually a full HTPC) is used as the source.

 Would the DAC offer an improvement in sound quality or do I need to set my sights higher (ie. DAC 1), which will mean waiting until sufficient funds are available.

 I would be using an optical output from the Julia@ to feed the DAC.

 Any comments would be appreciated.

 Cheers

 John


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *John Reeves* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,

 I'm currently using a Juli@ fed into Linn speakers, obviously by an appropriate amp. FLAC on a jukebox PC (Actually a full HTPC) is used as the source.

 Would the DAC offer an improvement in sound quality or do I need to set my sights higher (ie. DAC 1), which will mean waiting until sufficient funds are available.

 I would be using an optical output from the Julia@ to feed the DAC.

 Any comments would be appreciated.

 Cheers

 John_

 


 Well, comparing to recording cards like that, a properly designed external DAC will offer significant improvement over the internal solution provided by such cards.

 However, coax would be the way to go if you can, since it will offer the most performance for buck with pretty much any DAC.



 Thanks

 David


----------



## rappsy

Hi:

 Still confused about the 131 with the modified ops against the 151. Seems to be that Maniac is saying that overall, the 131 sounds better and with the modified OPS the machine is a current as the 151 even though it is an earlier machine.

 I originally started looking to better my CD player, but have come to the conclusion that getting a DAC is the way to go. I also realize that the 131 would work fine with the digital out of my player. Seemingly, this is the way to go, BUT, and you knew that there would be a but, that the future is computerized music and I have been loading my CD's onto a computer as well as picking some up ttracks with downloads. So to be prepared for the eventuality of having my computer playing all my music, I need to have a USB input on my DAC.

 So do I opt for the better sound on an older CD player with the 131 or use the computer which I am leaning to and then I have to use the 151 for the USB input? The 151 doesn't go as high (96 instead of 192) so what will I be missing? Is there a way to convert with a cable a USB out of the computer to the SPDIF cable or is there a USB/SPDIF cable and then would I still get the benefit of the 131?

 I am leaning to these DAC's as the seem to have the sound I am looking and hoping for, but I also am looking at something like the Musiland MD10 which has every input, but is there a noticeable different between the Musiland and KECES?

 Thanks very much.

 Lenny...


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rappsy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi:

 Still confused about the 131 with the modified ops against the 151. Seems to be that Maniac is saying that overall, the 131 sounds better and with the modified OPS the machine is a current as the 151 even though it is an earlier machine.

 I originally started looking to better my CD player, but have come to the conclusion that getting a DAC is the way to go. I also realize that the 131 would work fine with the digital out of my player. Seemingly, this is the way to go, BUT, and you knew that there would be a but, that the future is computerized music and I have been loading my CD's onto a computer as well as picking some up ttracks with downloads. So to be prepared for the eventuality of having my computer playing all my music, I need to have a USB input on my DAC.

 So do I opt for the better sound on an older CD player with the 131 or use the computer which I am leaning to and then I have to use the 151 for the USB input? The 151 doesn't go as high (96 instead of 192) so what will I be missing? Is there a way to convert with a cable a USB out of the computer to the SPDIF cable or is there a USB/SPDIF cable and then would I still get the benefit of the 131?

 I am leaning to these DAC's as the seem to have the sound I am looking and hoping for, but I also am looking at something like the Musiland MD10 which has every input, but is there a noticeable different between the Musiland and KECES?

 Thanks very much.

 Lenny..._

 

Well, a few points about the difference between the two.

 DA-131 and DA-151 are both the same generation of KECES DAC, but DA-151 is geared toward computer user that is looking to go beyond entry level without spending too much. While DA-131 is designed to be one step above that.

 DA-151's supported sample rate is 16bit 32/44.1/48KHz, and it does extremely well playing back musics from CD quality recordings. I feel it is safe to say that it will give a lot of similarly price product a good run for the money. As for what you would be missing, unless you are using recording that already have much more data (Like those ones from Linn Record downloads), then you might miss something. But if all you do is CD playback, you won't miss much other than the inherent advantage that DA-131 have over DA-151. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 DA-131 can be viewed as a completely different beast, as it does not have most of DA-151's limitation, such as the sample rate is up to 24bit/192KHz, and the signal path contains no coupling capacitor or DC Servo.


 If you need to use your computer as source, you can also consider getting a high quality digital output card like EMU 1212M or RME's card. When paired up with DA-131, they perform extremely well, and you can support much higher sample rate than otherwise possible.


----------



## Screamager

I had the same doubts you had, but ended up seeing the DA131 as a more versatile solution, as I could use it both with a digital output from my PC as well as with other sources like a CD player, optical out on my iriver H120, or any other device with an SPDIF stereo digital output.

 I am very happy with my DA131, it made my speakers shine in a new light.


----------



## anadin

I have had the KECES DA-151 USB DAC for about 3 days now.

 I have it connected up to a Little Dot Mk V, headphones are a pair of Senn Hd650's.

 Unless there is a dramatic change in the bass area then I am going to have to let the KECES DA-151 go and get myself a CD player.

 The bass is all over the place, really boomy not my thing at all.

 It could also be that the Little Dot Mk V doesn't quite have enough power to push the Hd650's to where I want them to go, anyone else found this to be the case.


----------



## rappsy

Thanks for the above responses. Let's keep it going.

 I have it down to a few in the $300 price range and need more opinions on them.

 They are:

 KECES 131 

 Musiland MD-10

 Diyeden DAC's (March 2, SCDAC04 or 5)

 I originally was looking to upgrade the sound of CD player, but after reading a bunch of posts, I realized that most of my music has been going on the computer and that is the direction I am going, but probably will also want to use my CDP as well. I know that the 131 does not have USB output, but I will get a card for it that outputs correctly. 

 The Musiland has all sorts of inputs so from that standpoint it will work on my CDP and the computer.

 The Diyeden have USB's so I'm okay there. 

 Seems like the 131 has a lot of positive reviews but I need to know more from people who know the others and some comparisons if possible. I am ready to pull the trigger when I find it. My wife wants me to make up my mind before Sunday so she can give it to me (or at least have ordered it for Father's Day.)

 How do they sound? I listen to everything, with Rock, Blues, Swing and Broadway as my main tunes. I can easily go from from Brian Setzer to Buddy Guy to Guys and Dolls.

 Also, I was starting to put everything on my computer in MP3 320k format, but it seems that FLAC is something that everyone is recommending. More later.

 Thanks very much.

 Lenny...


----------



## oicdn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *anadin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have had the KECES DA-151 USB DAC for about 3 days now.

 I have it connected up to a Little Dot Mk V, headphones are a pair of Senn Hd650's.

 Unless there is a dramatic change in the bass area then I am going to have to let the KECES DA-151 go and get myself a CD player.

 The bass is all over the place, really boomy not my thing at all.

 It could also be that the Little Dot Mk V doesn't quite have enough power to push the Hd650's to where I want them to go, anyone else found this to be the case._

 

 I would have to blame that on the LDV. ESPECIALLY if you're concerned about them being able to properly drive the HD650's to where to want them to be.


----------



## texashorn91

That doesn't sound right. The Little Dot MK V should have plenty of power for HD650s. You might want to talk to Maniac about it. It may be a setup problem with your PC. It shouldn't be anything else.


----------



## Steve The Egg

Man, I can't wait to get my hands either the 151 or the 131


----------



## I-Love-Music

Nice pics Dual, and thanks for the info.


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *anadin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have had the KECES DA-151 USB DAC for about 3 days now.

 I have it connected up to a Little Dot Mk V, headphones are a pair of Senn Hd650's.

 Unless there is a dramatic change in the bass area then I am going to have to let the KECES DA-151 go and get myself a CD player.

 The bass is all over the place, really boomy not my thing at all.

 It could also be that the Little Dot Mk V doesn't quite have enough power to push the Hd650's to where I want them to go, anyone else found this to be the case._

 

Can you describe your setup in more details? and was LD MKV tested with other sources before?


----------



## skeptic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *anadin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have had the KECES DA-151 USB DAC for about 3 days now.

 I have it connected up to a Little Dot Mk V, headphones are a pair of Senn Hd650's.

 Unless there is a dramatic change in the bass area then I am going to have to let the KECES DA-151 go and get myself a CD player.

 The bass is all over the place, really boomy not my thing at all.

 It could also be that the Little Dot Mk V doesn't quite have enough power to push the Hd650's to where I want them to go, anyone else found this to be the case._

 

This is not at all reflective of my experience with my Keces.

 My 131 was very pleasing right out of the box, fast and musical, with good separation and nice tight, controlled bass. 

 If I had to pick a weakness, I would say that the trebles were a bit muted prior to burn in - however, this is relative to the X-fi dac, which is known for harsh and somewhat fatiguing highs. The more I listen to and burn-in the Keces, the more I like what I hear. 

 I'm probably nearing 100 hours now, and the trebles have really blossomed, the sound stage has improved, and the bass remains solid and controlled. This DAC gives a hi-fi presentation while preserving the musicality of the source material. I'm really enjoying it


----------



## GuyMe

Can the Keces take bipolar input op-amps?


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GuyMe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can the Keces take bipolar input op-amps?_

 

It is not recommended, we recommend FET input unity gain stable op amps.


 Thanks


----------



## GuyMe

Why is it not recommended?

 Thanks for the prompt response.


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GuyMe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why is it not recommended?

 Thanks for the prompt response._

 

Most bipolar input op amp will need a bit of change to the circuit when it is used in circuit designed for FET input op amps. Thus we don't recommend using bipolar op amps.


 Thanks


----------



## GuyMe

So they won't work at all? Is it dangerous to the circuit?


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GuyMe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So they won't work at all? Is it dangerous to the circuit?_

 

Most of the time, it won't be dangerous or anything, but the op amp may heat up abnormally, or the output may oscillate or a bit unstable.

 Which op amp do you have in mind?


----------



## GuyMe

I'm considering AD797, LT1028, and AD843. 

 I suppose I could put heatsinks on them, but oscillation sounds nasty.


----------



## Maniac

I have personally tried 797 and it appears to be working, but at the time I have not tried to measure it with a scope or other equipments that can detect oscillation.

 I'll inquire this part with the designer of this DAC and see what's his take on this.


----------



## GuyMe

Excellent, thank you!


----------



## G.Kennedy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *anadin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have had the KECES DA-151 USB DAC for about 3 days now.

 I have it connected up to a Little Dot Mk V, headphones are a pair of Senn Hd650's.

 Unless there is a dramatic change in the bass area then I am going to have to let the KECES DA-151 go and get myself a CD player.

 The bass is all over the place, really boomy not my thing at all.

 It could also be that the Little Dot Mk V doesn't quite have enough power to push the Hd650's to where I want them to go, anyone else found this to be the case._

 


 Not my experience at all ..... I would say the Keces-151 is completely neutral in my system ... It is used more in my 2ch system than with my headphone rig.

 My only issue was that ... running iTunes at full volume created distortion ... in now run my iTunes output at 75% and my computer at 100% and it sounds just awesome to me.


----------



## badmonkey

Any reason the 151 shouldn't work perfectly with Vista 64 bit?


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *badmonkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any reason the 151 shouldn't work perfectly with Vista 64 bit?_

 

It should work just perfectly, since it rely on the built-in driver of Windows, no major config needed at all. Just set volume to 100% and that's about it.


----------



## malldian

I would get ASIO running as well.


----------



## wINDy

Anyone knows the SQ difference between this and the DA-131?


----------



## jojoarmani

I have a laptop with a mother board with on-board audio chip/card. Not the best. 

 I am just wondering how the computer stops recognizing that audio chip to play your FLACs when you plug in a Keces DA-151 USB/DAC?

 Wasn't sure to post here or on the Computer as source section, but i am wanting to buy a Keces so i figured here.


----------



## TheMarchingMule

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jojoarmani* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a laptop with a mother board with on-board audio chip/card. Not the best. 

 I am just wondering how the computer stops recognizing that audio chip to play your FLACs when you plug in a Keces DA-151 USB/DAC?

 Wasn't sure to post here or on the Computer as source section, but i am wanting to buy a Keces so i figured here._

 

Don't worry about _how_ it does it. You just need to know that as soon as the KECES is switched on, then all audio from your computer is transferred from the USB cable and into your KECES.


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jojoarmani* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a laptop with a mother board with on-board audio chip/card. Not the best. 

 I am just wondering how the computer stops recognizing that audio chip to play your FLACs when you plug in a Keces DA-151 USB/DAC?

 Wasn't sure to post here or on the Computer as source section, but i am wanting to buy a Keces so i figured here._

 

Like TheMarchingMule said, it will automatically be defaulted to DA-151 when you install it. However, if you are interested in just playing music through DA-151 and use your computer's sound card for other jobs, you can keep 151 plugged in and powered at all times (so that computer won't change you setting because it couldn't detect 151). Under windows, you can go to control panel and select which sound card to use (ie using sound card for games), and use DA-151 for dedicated music playback (setup playback program like Foobar, which allows you to select which sound device to send music to).


----------



## jojoarmani

Marching mule and Maniac: thanks for the answer! That's all i need to know!

 Im on a job this summer, with room and board, and wont get paid until the end of the summer, so Maniac, i'll probably be in touch with you by then, if you still have units to sell  I am gonna combine it with a LD mk III, which seems like the best match-up so far as i can tell


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jojoarmani* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Marching mule and Maniac: thanks for the answer! That's all i need to know!

 Im on a job this summer, with room and board, and wont get paid until the end of the summer, so Maniac, i'll probably be in touch with you by then, if you still have units to sell  I am gonna combine it with a LD mk III, which seems like the best match-up so far as i can tell_

 

Well the best of luck to your and your job. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I try to keep all stuff I carry in stock, so that I can always respond "In Stock!" confidently whenever anyone asks


----------



## jojoarmani

Helps me sleep at night just a it better knowing that. You're a pro!


----------



## jojoarmani

Maniac

 What would you recommend:

 DA 151 or the PCM 2702? I was thinking of hooking it up with either a Meier Arietta or maybe, ld mk V?

 I have ruled out using bulbs for an amp. Any recommendations for amp???

 (Um, obviously, i will be hooking it up with my laptop' USB port)


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jojoarmani* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maniac

 What would you recommend:

 DA 151 or the PCM 2702? I was thinking of hooking it up with either a Meier Arietta or maybe, ld mk V?

 I have ruled out using bulbs for an amp. Any recommendations for amp???

 (Um, obviously, i will be hooking it up with my laptop' USB port)_

 

I have not heard either amps, I can't really recommend one over another.


----------



## darrenlee

Hi Maniac,

 I'm fairly new to all these DAC things and need your advice on
 DA 151

 I'm actually using my source from pc.. (i suppose usb would be more suitable). 

 1) from my understanding devices using usb does take up resources in CPU.. will it affect the applications that i'm running like (flash, photoshop, dreamweaver all at the same time?)

 2) i do intend to pair it up with nEar 04 (near field active speakers) and skip the amp for now. Will this be advisable?

 3) sometimes i do use this to play movies and games (although most of the time it will be for music).. Will DA 151 be able to support? 

 4) i have a internal sound card that support S/PDIF called realtek ALC889A . Since this is an internal sound card that comes with the MB. Will that affect the sound quality if i choose the DA 131? 

 Thanks for your time


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *darrenlee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Maniac,

 I'm fairly new to all these DAC things and need your advice on
 DA 151

 I'm actually using my source from pc.. (i suppose usb would be more suitable). 

 1) from my understanding devices using usb does take up resources in CPU.. will it affect the applications that i'm running like (flash, photoshop, dreamweaver all at the same time?)

 2) i do intend to pair it up with nEar 04 (near field active speakers) and skip the amp for now. Will this be advisable?

 3) sometimes i do use this to play movies and games (although most of the time it will be for music).. Will DA 151 be able to support? 

 4) i have a internal sound card that support S/PDIF called realtek ALC889A . Since this is an internal sound card that comes with the MB. Will that affect the sound quality if i choose the DA 131? 

 Thanks for your time_

 

#1. DA-151 takes (or most other USB audio device for that matter) so little resource that you won't notice much difference at all, even if you are monitoring it with a CPU meter.

 #2. You will need to make sure you have an external mean of volume control, since controlling the volume from computer via software will degrade sound (Always set it at 100% if possible)

 #3. If you only use two channels, it should work just fine, but I personally recommend dedicated sound card that is designed for game when you play game, as it does offer game oriented features. (like 3D positioning of sound, etc)

 #4. In most cases DA-131 with the LME49710 upgrade should be able to beat DA-151, but I recommend upgrading to cards with high quality digital output to make DA-131 really shine. There are flame wars going on elsewhere about this, but I'll risk it here one more time. SPDIF is more than just 0 and 1s, it also carries the timing information that directs when the sound should be sent out. With higher quality digital source, almost any DAC will always play even better than before. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Of course, if you do not plan to upgrade anytime soon, I recommend DA-151 for its ease of use and fully integrated design. Not to mention it is cheaper than DA-131 



 Thanks


----------



## bergman2

Maniac,

 After just reading this entire head-fi thread I have a few questions...I am cobbling together a little system via the computer---i have an m-audio firewire (that I'm using as a dac via firewire from my computer) and an earmax pro tube amp (handling amp duties) which goes to my recabled hp's (595's and sa5000's)...i auditioned a few tube dacs but none of them exhibited good synergy with the tubiness of the earmax pro (horribly mushy), so i'm thinking a good non-tube dac would balance better with the tubiness of the earmax...anyway, your products seem to be good (from the reviews I read) AND within my budget...BUT I can't decide which one is better for my purposes...is the "spdif-coax out" on my m-audio firewire of a good enough quality to pipe the signal to the "input spdif-coax" of the 131...if not i would probably be better off with the 151...second, how do i go about getting that new, better chip upgrade thats in the 151 put into the 131 if i order it....lastly, can i get the $10 off if i order straight thru you (as i remember reading in the forum)...thanks in advance


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bergman2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maniac,

 After just reading this entire head-fi thread I have a few questions...I am cobbling together a little system via the computer---i have an m-audio firewire (that I'm using as a dac via firewire from my computer) and an earmax pro tube amp (handling amp duties) which goes to my recabled hp's (595's and sa5000's)...i auditioned a few tube dacs but none of them exhibited good synergy with the tubiness of the earmax pro (horribly mushy), so i'm thinking a good non-tube dac would balance better with the tubiness of the earmax...anyway, your products seem to be good (from the reviews I read) AND within my budget...BUT I can't decide which one is better for my purposes...is the "spdif-coax out" on my m-audio firewire of a good enough quality to pipe the signal to the "input spdif-coax" of the 131...if not i would probably be better off with the 151...second, how do i go about getting that new, better chip upgrade thats in the 151 put into the 131 if i order it....lastly, can i get the $10 off if i order straight thru you (as i remember reading in the forum)...thanks in advance_

 


 The M-Audio's digital output have been pretty good and when paired up with 131 should easily outperform 151. But as with all who order 131, I highly recommend the OP-AMP upgrade option to LME49710, as the performance increase is more than worth the $10 difference of the option.

 If you are interested in ordering, you can just contact me via PM with your paypal email, so that I can send you a paypal invoice for the order. Yes, $10 discount for all KECES DA ordered without using ebay.


----------



## zaen

To the Maniac....

 Currently running the 151 from my macbook pro....but considering upgrading to the 131 via the optical out as I've recently got into 24/96 vinyl rips....

 Is the optical out on the macbook pro...quality enough to justify the upgrade or is the advantage of the 24/96 capabilities of the 131 lost in the digital transfer from the stock apple optical out?

 Thanks in advance for your advice....


----------



## alxwang

When you are using 151 with MAC book pro do you plug in the AC charger or always on battery?
 Tks
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zaen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To the Maniac....

 Currently running the 151 from my macbook pro....but considering upgrading to the 131 via the optical out as I've recently got into 24/96 vinyl rips....

 Is the optical out on the macbook pro...quality enough to justify the upgrade or is the advantage of the 24/96 capabilities of the 131 lost in the digital transfer from the stock apple optical out?

 Thanks in advance for your advice...._


----------



## VeipaCray

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zaen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To the Maniac....

 Currently running the 151 from my macbook pro....but considering upgrading to the 131 via the optical out as I've recently got into 24/96 vinyl rips....

 Is the optical out on the macbook pro...quality enough to justify the upgrade or is the advantage of the 24/96 capabilities of the 131 lost in the digital transfer from the stock apple optical out?

 Thanks in advance for your advice...._

 

I use the airport express' optical output into the DA-131 (upgraded). Sounds incredible. Great DAC. Couldn't be happier.


----------



## Maniac

Well, VeipaCray, you took the words outta my mouth more or less, the DA-131 should work just fine with most digital output. The thing you should make sure is that the sound card is sending out bit perfect data, it appears that most digital source are not as bad as I have first feared. But still if you have the chance to try DA-131 on a better digital source, give it a try and you should be pleasantly surprised.


----------



## feverfive

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Maniac* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The M-Audio's digital output have been pretty good and when paired up with 131 should easily outperform 151. But as with all who order 131,* I highly recommend the OP-AMP upgrade option to LME49710, as the performance increase is more than worth the $10 difference of the option.*

 If you are interested in ordering, you can just contact me via PM with your paypal email, so that I can send you a paypal invoice for the order. Yes, $10 discount for all KECES DA ordered without using ebay. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm just curious...if this op-amp upgrade is only $10, why not just make this the standard package?


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feverfive* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm just curious...if this op-amp upgrade is only $10, why not just make this the standard package?_

 

Because the unit is designed with 604 before we have discovered LME49710, we would prefer to keep the spec of the unit unchanged until the next revision. Not to mention that we already have a batch of the main board made with OPA604, and thus 604 will remain there for a bit.

 However, IMHO it's also more fun for the users who upgrade, since they get one pair of spare op amps to roll and hear the difference for themselves.


----------



## littletree76

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Maniac* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Because the unit is designed with 604 before we have discovered LME49710, we would prefer to keep the spec of the unit unchanged until the next revision. Not to mention that we already have a batch of the main board made with OPA604, and thus 604 will remain there for a bit.

 However, IMHO it's also more fun for the users who upgrade, since they get one pair of spare op amps to roll and hear the difference for themselves._

 

Maniac (David),

 I am contemplating purchase of Keces DA-131 to be installed between optical output of iMac and a pair of ESI nEar05 active monitor speakers. But I prefer a DAC with more than one line output so that a portable headphone amplifier can be connected to it at the same time for driving my AKG K601 headphone. Second best option will be a DAC with headphone output (with headphone amplifier built into the DAC) which eliminate the need for the external headphone amplifier.

 Is there any plan to include another line output or headphone output to the Keces DA-131 DAC ? Is it possible to have such feature as build-to-order option with extra charge ? Otherwise what will you recommend to have a single analog line output of DAC to feed both speaker and headphone at the same time to avoid switching connection every now and then ?


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *littletree76* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maniac (David),

 I am contemplating purchase of Keces DA-131 to be installed between optical output of iMac and a pair of ESI nEar05 active monitor speakers. But I prefer a DAC with more than one line output so that a portable headphone amplifier can be connected to it at the same time for driving my AKG K601 headphone. Second best option will be a DAC with headphone output (with headphone amplifier built into the DAC) which eliminate the need for the external headphone amplifier.

 Is there any plan to include another line output or headphone output to the Keces DA-131 DAC ? Is it possible to have such feature as build-to-order option with extra charge ? Otherwise what will you recommend to have a single analog line output of DAC to feed both speaker and headphone at the same time to avoid switching connection every now and then ?_

 


 Currently we do not have the plan for double output jack on the DA-131, what I would recommend in your case is to use a good quality Y Splitter. Since that's exactly what would be done inside the unit if we equip the unit with two sets of output plugs. I think at the end of your message, you came to the same conclusion as I have wrote above. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As for custom jobs, in future units, we can allow for more optional choices, but still not true custom jobs. As we all the unit professionally made, if we were to drill more holes for the extra RCA jacks, it will not only look different from the original two, but will be quite weird looking as well.


 Thanks

 David Wei


----------



## zaen

Just got my 131 in the post today....only took 2 days to Melbourne....same as when I got the 151.

 Wow. Straight out of the box...this sounds amazing...the detail difference is noticeable....can't wait to roll the caps in about a month when I get used to it....

 I was skeptical about going with the 131 just for the 24/192 capabilities....but Im currently listening to 24/96 vinyl rip of Aja by Steely Dan...and its amazing..so clean clear and dynamic!

 Perfectly content....just waiting on the acoustical engineer now to finish off the listening room/studio...

 Cheers!


----------



## whuffor

I got my DA-151 yesterday, and have logged 20+ hours since I unpacked and connected it.

 There is a tremendeous increase in detail, and most of all, ambience compared with getting the sound directly from the onboard Realtek soundcard.

 Now there is a much broader soundstage, the vocalist is more isolated from the music and more forward sounding. There is a definite increase in the strength of the mid to low bass as well. Not that it's bloated, far from it, but it's present in a way it wasn't before. While listening to Stanley Clarke's track "Bad Asses" from the Toys of Men album, I can hear transients that was barely audible before to really attack my eardrum with brutal force.

 In the last two weeks I have aquired an HD650, an LD MkV and a Keces DA-151. Every aquisition have improved the resolution of my music.

 I'm well chuffed.


----------



## jojoarmani

I have been thinking... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Everyone here is running their DACs into Headphone-amps and going with senn's or dax. I got that. I ususally go with the headphones 90 percent of the time, too. 

 My goal in life, at the moment, is running my source (FLAC with Foobar) into a DAC and into a headphone amp, which I haven't acquired yet.

 I was thinking, we have in storage an old 1995 model ??? Pioneer system, with AV Receiver and amplifier with two big bookshelf speakers. The receiver also has a jack for headphone listening.

 What i got to thinking was, why not run the DAC OUT into the Pioneer amplifier's IN, and have the headphone jack AND the speakers? (Skip getting a headphone amp altogether.) Must a DAC have to run into a Headphone amp, and not a regular hifi system amp?

 I have read on the site that a good headphone amp will do a good job of powering bookshelf speakers, but why not just get the Keces-151 and run it into the Pioneer? Voltage-wise, are they compatible? 

 Comments and pointing out flaws in this system are welcome! Right now, it seems like a good idea


----------



## whuffor

Of course you can route the DAC's output to line-in of an amplifier and pass the sound to your speakers. Whether you will get good results from using the headphone jack on your receiver depends on how good it is.

 From what I understand some amplifiers have a headphone jack that is more of an afterthought, and doesn't provide very good sound output into headphones, and other amps doesn't even have a headphone jack at all. It can't hurt to try though.


----------



## jojoarmani

I mean, it's Pioneer. it has to be good, but maybe not as good as a _dedicated _headamp.

 Any other comments?

 Thx Whuffor!


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zaen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got my 131 in the post today....only took 2 days to Melbourne....same as when I got the 151.

 Wow. Straight out of the box...this sounds amazing...the detail difference is noticeable....can't wait to roll the caps in about a month when I get used to it....

 I was skeptical about going with the 131 just for the 24/192 capabilities....but Im currently listening to 24/96 vinyl rip of Aja by Steely Dan...and its amazing..so clean clear and dynamic!

 Perfectly content....just waiting on the acoustical engineer now to finish off the listening room/studio...

 Cheers!_

 


 Just a note on the cap rolling, since DA-131 does not have caps in the signal path, it does not have the two big-o cap that DA-151 have. That's one of the reason that the detail increase is achieved.

 If you would like to try some cheap and easy rollings, fuses is one of the things that people try and seems to work in some situations. (Like generally slow blow seems to work better than fast blow in terms of sonic performance.) If you can find good quality fuses like Littlefuse or Bussman, they are cheap and generally good sounding.

 (I know, those people who were after me on the cable thread might be after me again for saying the fuse could affect sound...)


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jojoarmani* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I mean, it's Pioneer. it has to be good, but maybe not as good as a dedicated headamp.

 Any other comments?

 Thx Whuffor!_

 

It will work fine, no doubt about it. How well it work will be up to you to judge, since I haven't used a Pioneer integrated amp before.


----------



## jojoarmani

Thanks Maniac. Next step:

 Now, i am searching the net to find out what Pioneer circa 1995 system i have... model numbers... YAY


----------



## Screamager

Should work fine. Depends on the quality of the headphone amp in the pioneer.

 I have my DA-131 plugged into my Stereo NAD c740 amp and have noticed a very big improvement through my speakers (which I was beginning to doubt were a good match with the amp), and the headphone amp in the NAD is all I would need I think, very good quality in my opinion.


----------



## oicdn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jojoarmani* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I mean, it's Pioneer. it has to be good, but maybe not as good as a dedicated headamp.

 Any other comments?

 Thx Whuffor!_

 

HUGE misconception....just because of a brand doesn't mean it HAS to be anything. All of the big manufacturers have their crap...Pioneer is no exception. But it's probably decent.....just don't ASSUME it's anything, as that can lead to HUGE disappointments down the road.


----------



## jojoarmani

I will keep that in mind, Nate. Brand names DO sell prices and not good quality.

 It looks like this setup will work very nicely.  I don't know for how long I've waited for something like the Keces.


----------



## jojoarmani

Dump question and maybe better in the audiokarma, but do you plug the DAC into the amp, or the receiver?


----------



## malldian

What do you mean? Receiver is a tuner and amp, put it in the AUX input.


----------



## jojoarmani

Thanks Malldian. I have to reaccustomed with my 1995 hifi system.

 Receiver = tuner (radio) + amp. Gotcha.

 Mine has this, plus a CD player and Cassette player. Man, when i get this with a Keces, ... Well, lets say i can't wait to tell you guys how it sounds and post pics. I'll have this accomplished when i finish a job here in france and return home, and pull it out of storage


----------



## G.Kennedy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jojoarmani* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I mean, it's Pioneer. it has to be good, but maybe not as good as a dedicated headamp.

 Any other comments?

 Thx Whuffor!_

 

I hang out here at headfi cuz I listen to my Senn-600's ... but I use my iPod to run that rig 99% of the time.

 My 151 is running between my Mac and my 300B tubes feeding La Scalas ... it is ideal for HiFi use !!!


----------



## jojoarmani

Maybe i should ask Maniac, but what is the cost of the DAC here? 

 and second, it uses typical red and white RCA cables to hook up with a hifi system? Thx


----------



## malldian

I am selling one in the used forum for 210, I believe it's around 300 new. And yes RCA's go from the DAC to the amp.


----------



## skeptic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jojoarmani* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe i should ask Maniac, but what is the cost of the DAC here? 

 and second, it uses typical red and white RCA cables to hook up with a hifi system? Thx_

 

As listed on audiogon, the USB model (Keces 151) sells for $240 + shipping. The digital coax/optical model (Keces 131) sells for $310 + shipping.

 Maniac was, and may well still be (?) offering a $10 discount for direct orders through head-fi pm's.

 The optional upgrade for the 131 to include the LME49710 opamp is another $10.

 As malldian noted, it uses an ordinary rca output to your head-amp, preamp, or integrated.


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *skeptic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As listed on audiogon, the USB model (Keces 151) sells for $240 + shipping. The digital coax/optical model (Keces 131) sells for $310 + shipping.

 Maniac was, and may well still be (?) offering a $10 discount for direct orders through head-fi pm's.

 The optional upgrade for the 131 to include the LME49710 opamp is another $10.

 As malldian noted, it uses an ordinary rca output to your head-amp, preamp, or integrated._

 

Just a slight correction, the discount was calculated from the Ebay price, since bypassing ebay would net me a saving of roughly about 10 USD, and that was passed on to whoever that purchase directly from me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Audiogon price is the discounted price because they do not charge me a per-unit charge that ebay was.


 Thanks.


----------



## jojoarmani

Ok thx for the info to Skeptic and Maniac. I may get it used or new. still thinking about it, but thanks for the offer Malldian.


----------



## demoNMaCHiN3

Has anyone compared the keces da-151 with the beresford tc-7510?


----------



## malldian

There are several comparisons, some in this thread.


----------



## demoNMaCHiN3

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *malldian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are several comparisons, some in this thread._

 

Really? I've read through this thread twice and did a search but couldn't find a comparison. I also searched this forum and found this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/bu...mments-339383/ but there are no comparisons between the two dacs. I also searched the dedicated source components forum and couldn't find any comparisons.


----------



## malldian

My fault, I found only one (mine) and posted it here:
About to pull the trigger on a Beresford TC-7510 - Page 8 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

 I still own both the units but I am trying to sell the Keces which is very cheap used now apparently.


----------



## demoNMaCHiN3

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *malldian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My fault, I found only one (mine) and posted it here:
About to pull the trigger on a Beresford TC-7510 - Page 8 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

 I still own both the units but I am trying to sell the Keces which is very cheap used now apparently._

 

I think you're the only person who owns both :O. You state that they are of similar quality but could you elaborate a little. Do you hear a difference in sound quality?


----------



## jojoarmani

For starters, the beresford tc-7510 is missing usb plugs. or are they what's listed as Optical jacks on the back?

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/9747/dsc01656cu5.jpg


----------



## malldian

TOSlink I believe. I guess tomorrow I will attempt my first shoot out. Don't hold your breath for anything too spectacular.


----------



## VietnamD2A

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Maniac* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just a slight correction, the discount was calculated from the Ebay price, since bypassing ebay would net me a saving of roughly about 10 USD, and that was passed on to whoever that purchase directly from me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Audiogon price is the discounted price because they do not charge me a per-unit charge that ebay was.
 Thanks._

 

Hello Zycamaniac,
 I'm from Hanoi, Vietnam and very glad to know about you and your Keces DA-151 Audiophile USB DAC (w/ the LME opamp upgrade). Pls let me know his shipping cost to Hanoi and the modalities of payment (Sorry, I have the Visa card but never buy the things on net. Electronic business is not yet popular in Vietnam
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
 My email: thanhtungdang@gmail.com
 Thank you in advance!


----------



## kilgoretrout

The eBay site says that DA-151 is USB 1.1. Does this limit the unit in any way compared to USB 2.0?


----------



## TheMarchingMule

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kilgoretrout* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The eBay site says that DA-151 is USB 1.1. Does this limit the unit in any way compared to USB 2.0?_

 

I asked that a few pages ago, and Maniac told me that the only limitation is that if you're listening to 24-bit files, it will down them to 16-bit.


----------



## jojoarmani

ugh... just ripped some 24 bit from vinyls... May order mine in a week.


----------



## apatN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *skeptic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone had a chance to compare the keces 151 to a keces 131, connected via a stock X-fi card?

 It looks like some of the modifications discussed in the X-fi mod are aimed at the path leading up to the digital output. Does this mean that the 1's and 0's of a bit perfect ASIO output, flowing from the X-fi's digital flexijack are actually being lost/corrupted absent these mods?

 I would love to be able to keep my X-fi in the system to reduce the load on my cpu (as compared to USB sound) but I'd hate to cash out for a 131 only to learn that the DAC is receiving a degraded digital signal from the X-fi. In that event, I would likely lean towards the 151, or maybe a Trends + 131 combo.

 Thanks for any comments any of you are able to offer._

 

Could anyone comment on this post? I'm in the same boat as he. I've got an X-FI ExtremeMusic and like the EAX for games and the card's fast cpu. If I'd get the 151 these things will go to waste. If I'd get the 131 I could still use EAX etc, however I don't want the X-FI to be downgrading the Keces.

 To make things a little harder my X-FI recently started to crackle/pop. I'm 90% sure it is the X-FI since more people have this problem. If I'd use the digital out of my X-FI would it still crackle?


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *apatN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could anyone comment on this post? I'm in the same boat as he. I've got an X-FI ExtremeMusic and like the EAX for games and the card's fast cpu. If I'd get the 151 these things will go to waste. If I'd get the 131 I could still use EAX etc, however I don't want the X-FI to be downgrading the Keces.

 To make things a little harder my X-FI recently started to crackle/pop. I'm 90% sure it is the X-FI since more people have this problem. If I'd use the digital out of my X-FI would it still crackle?_

 

Hello, with DA-131 +LME49710 upgrade, it should be pretty easy for DA-131 to best DA-151's sound.

 As for X-Fi, I think most of the crackling should originate from analog part, but I'm not sure since my X-Fi is not doing that.


----------



## Zorlac

Anyone using the DA-131 with a Prelude (Coax out) for gaming?

 I am thinking of going this route, but I will need to use very specific settings because I will be listening to music as well via Foobar+WASAPI plugin+ 16/44.1 wav files as the source.

 Bit perfect will be achieved by setting Vista to 2 channel 16/44.1, setting the Prelude to 2 channel Audio Creation mode with bit perfect output and 16/44.1 spdif out.

 This should net bit perfect for music, but not sure how games will sound. So...anyone using a similiar setup?

 I am assuming this DAC will require an amp as well for best results right?


----------



## apatN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Maniac* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello, with DA-131 +LME49710 upgrade, it should be pretty easy for DA-131 to best DA-151's sound.

 As for X-Fi, I think most of the crackling should originate from analog part, but I'm not sure since my X-Fi is not doing that._

 

Thanks. I'm also not sure about the X-FI. Something tells me it's in the analog line, but if it's not.. Meh.. The DA-131 with upgrade is 80$ more (compared to 151), right? Can you tell me what shipping would cost me to The Netherlands?

 Zorlac, you need an amp. All a DAC does is making digital audio analogue.


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *apatN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks. I'm also not sure about the X-FI. Something tells me it's in the analog line, but if it's not.. Meh.. The DA-131 with upgrade is 80$ more (compared to 151), right? Can you tell me what shipping would cost me to The Netherlands?

 Zorlac, you need an amp. All a DAC does is making digital audio analogue._

 

Hello apatN,

 Upgraded DA-131 is indeed $80 more than 151, the shipping to Netherlands is $45, and we will set your unit to 200~240V setting as well as including a proper power cable for your location.

 We supply a cable similar to the following for most part of Europe, I believe it should work fine in Netherlands.
Image:CEE 7-7.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## apatN

That cable should work fine, yes. That's what we use here.

 So total is 375$. That's a lot of money. Well, I'm broke atm anyway so I have plenty of time to think it over 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Maybe if I get some money for my birthday 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks anyway, Maniac!


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *apatN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That cable should work fine, yes. That's what we use here.

 So total is 375$. That's a lot of money. Well, I'm broke atm anyway so I have plenty of time to think it over 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe if I get some money for my birthday 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks anyway, Maniac!_

 

Actually, it is $310 ($10 off ebay discount deducted) + $10 upgrade + $45 shipping = $365 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well my suggestion is always only spend what you have, don't overspend into your future... It makes life easier.


----------



## MaZa

nvm


----------



## apatN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Maniac* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually, it is $310 ($10 off ebay discount deducted) + $10 upgrade + $45 shipping = $365 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Nice! I think I'll get one right now!


----------



## kazaam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Maniac* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_However, if you are interested in just playing music through DA-151 and use your computer's sound card for other jobs, you can keep 151 plugged in and powered at all times (so that computer won't change you setting because it couldn't detect 151). ._

 

Will this significantly lower the lifespan of the DAC?


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kazaam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will this significantly lower the lifespan of the DAC?_

 

No, keeping it on constantly will not lower the lifespan of the unit, since the components on the DAC are not even close to being stressed. Thus it is not going to make much of a difference to lifespan.


----------



## carstenan

Hi, Maniac:

 I heard there will be a DA152 released. Is that a DA151 with a headphone amp? And when will it be available?

 Thanks


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *carstenan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, Maniac:

 I heard there will be a DA152 released. Is that a DA151 with a headphone amp? And when will it be available?

 Thanks_

 

Well, it is, but other than that and the price will be adjusted accordingly, I can't say too much about it now, but I should have some photos and info when it is ready.


----------



## xdanny

Hi Maniac,

 If my sound card is NOT bit perfect, would the 151 be a better choice since it bypasses the card altogether?

 How much better will the 131 sound (compared to the 151) if I were to buy a bit perfect sound card?

 Thanks


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xdanny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Maniac,

 If my sound card is NOT bit perfect, would the 151 be a better choice since it bypasses the card altogether?

 How much better will the 131 sound (compared to the 151) if I were to buy a bit perfect sound card?

 Thanks_

 

Hello,

 The natural advantage of DA-151 is that it does not need any additional investment in a digital source. It is an excellent choice for those who just want to get a better sound without paying for additional hardware, and for those who don't see themselves upgrading to better digital source soon.

 If you have a bit perfect source, or are planning to do so, then DA-131.1 is the clear winner, as it basically takes all the performance of DA-151 and improves in almost every respect. There are a few customers (some are on Head-Fi) who had experience with both, and they appear to be quite happy with the upgrade. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll dig some of the post up in a sec.


 Thanks


----------



## qib

would it be a good idea to simply feed this dac to a portable amp (voyager)?


----------



## oicdn

You can do that. I do it all the time. It really brings out the best in your portables!


----------



## Isao_Tanaka

Hello,

 Just a simple question here, what are the concretes downsides (if there is any) of the 16 bit "limitation" of the 151? 
 I'm indeed interested by this version for its USB port, but i wouldn't want to feel like i'm missing something with this 16/24 bit thingy (listening to Cds and Apple Lossless tracks exclusively).

 Thanks!


----------



## Maniac

If all you do is CD or files ripped from CD, then you will not need anything more than 16 @ 44.1KHz. Even tho DA-131/131.1 is inherently better sounding even at the same sampling rate, but it costs more and it does not have USB. IMHO, if you don't see that you'd be upgrading your computer to have a good bit perfect output, then 151 is the way to go. More cost effective.


----------



## Isao_Tanaka

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Maniac* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If all you do is CD or files ripped from CD, then you will not need anything more than 16 @ 44.1KHz._

 

I thought so, thanks to confirm it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Maniac* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Even tho DA-131/131.1 is inherently better sounding even at the same sampling rate, but it costs more and it does not have USB. IMHO, if you don't see that you'd be upgrading your computer to have a good bit perfect output, then 151 is the way to go. More cost effective._

 

I would have loved to get the 131.1 for its overall better performance, but my current soundcard (audigy 2 zs) apparently doesn't do bit perfect, and i don't see myself buying another soundcard just for it.
 That and the fact i'd have to buy another one once i'll swap my pc by a laptop.
 So except if there is a cheaper way to output in bit perfect, 151 that will be 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh and btw if i dare ask a probably very redundant question for you, is there any plan to upgrade the current models in the near future?
 I'm the patient kind so i could wait a bit if that was the case.

 Thanks!


----------



## xdanny

Hey guys, sorry for the dumb question but how do you check to see if you have a bit perfect sound card? I have Windows XP. Thanks


----------



## Maniac

Here's a little something for those who plan to use DA-151 with their headphones.

KECES DA-152 Integrated Headphone Amp & DAC. Finally! (Pre-order special!)


 As for checking bit-perfect sound cards, I think put your sound card name into the search function of Head-Fi, you should be able to find out about it.


----------



## texashorn91

Looks promising. Is there a DA-132 coming out too? (131 with headphone out)


----------



## Maniac

As for 132, not yet at the moment, but we are working on a stand alone headphone amp as well.


----------



## iozz

Just received my DA-151 yesterday evening.

 Out of the box and plugged to my PC playing FLAC files and RSA HR-2 driving Edtion9, Grado HP2 and Alessandro MS-Pro, it sounds very clinical and neutral, with a wide soundstage. I was a bit shocked at first because I'm used to my SVDAC05 which is warmer and more recessed. The DA-151 is clearly better.
 Too bad I've already sold my MAD HDSuper, because the SVDAC05+HDSuper was too warm for me. With the DA-151 it should be perfect 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Very nice product, hope I won't miss optical input in the future...


----------



## Maniac

Hello iozz,

 Let it burn in a bit more, and you can leave it on all the time to speed up burn-in and eliminate warm up time (Yes, even DACs needs a little bit of warm up time, even if it doesn't use tubes or use heavy class-A operation). It will get less clinical and become a little bit warm, but not too warm. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Thanks.


----------



## iozz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Maniac* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Let it burn in a bit more, and you can leave it on all the time to speed up burn-in and eliminate warm up time (Yes, even DACs needs a little bit of warm up time, even if it doesn't use tubes or use heavy class-A operation). It will get less clinical and become a little bit warm, but not too warm. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Don't worry about it, I've bought this model because of its neutral presentation. And for the moment I'm happy with it


----------



## supernerd

Edited - see thread in Source forum


----------



## kertas2

Hi, I've done a tiny bit of research on how to get a better listening experience for myself in these forums. I'm using my laptop as a primary source and considering buying the DA-151 for better SQ. 

 However I was wondering if it's better for me to get the DA-131 and use a usb converter such as the Xitel MD-Port DG2. This is because I'm getting new desktop gaming pc later on with a good gaming soundcard (such as the prelude) and pair it with the Keces for music listening. I was wondering if the DA-131 would be the better investment in the long term.

 Any advice and corrections to my understanding of how this all works would be helpful. ty.


----------



## 1UP

Depends what your long-term plans are. The 131 has a better DAC and output stage, but would be best served with a pure coax output, rather than going through a USB-S/PDIF converter.

 If you're going to be using USB all the time, then I'd go for the 151.


----------



## texashorn91

My understanding is, your sound card won't matter as long as it is outputting a bit-perfect signal. If you get your new PC equipped with a Toslink output, you can use that to connect the 131. The Keces will act as your source for gaming and music. Just make sure you have toslink on the new sound card you get.


----------



## Maniac

Hey, that's not right... you took the words right out of my mouth... 

 Anyways, 151 is for people who don't want to spend much more and plan to use their computer as source. 131/131.1 is for people who do plan upgrade soon or already have a good SPDIF source that they can use (be it a CD player/transport or some good computer digital source).

 The main reason is that if you want to use computer as source and don't already have a good SPDIF output, using 151 will cost you roughly 1/2 of what 131 plus a good digital output device will cost you. Since a good card with digital output will cost a little more than a hundred bucks, and it kinda adds up if you don't already have it planned in the budget.

 Sound quality wise, like many those who had 151 and then moved on to 131, 131/131.1 IS better sound quality wise, basically everything good about 151, and move the whole thing up a few notches.


 Thanks

 David


----------



## TopPop

David!

 FOUR days! It took only FOUR days for my Keces to get from Taiwan to the middle of Illinois. I'm completely and utterly amazed at your shipping efficiency!

 And this DAC is fantastic. It's been burning in since the afternoon, and straight out of the box the sound is great. I was hoping that it would be at least on par with the combo I had before of Trends > Entech 205.2, but the Keces really brings my music to another level. I'm simply amazed at how much you were able to put into a DAC that you sell for only $250... Cheers, my friend!


----------



## Maniac

Thanks TopPop we try to ship as soon as possible, since from our point of view, there is not one reason why we should leave your parcel on the shelf for a few days after you have paid for your order. (Mystical aging process?) And IMHO from a customer's POV, there's nothing like getting it as soon as possible. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 BTW, as a side note, DA-152 is now ready to ship. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Please see the following link for more details:
KECES DA-152 Integrated Headphone Amp & DAC. Finally! (READY TO SHIP NOW!)


----------



## brown274

I am wondering what works better or smoother?
 The 131 with coaxial or toslink or 151 USB?

 I am a newbie with the DAC hookup. I am wanting to hook us a DAC to run my Audioengine A5's from my desktop and I think the Keces will be a good choice. Now I have USB (of course) but my sound card is 5yrs old. Now If I got a new soundcard and the 131, would it sound better than the 151 USB?

 If 151 is best, then I am set. If 131 is best, what way would I want to hook it up and what soundcard would be best. I do not game.


----------



## Maniac

Hello Brown274,

 What kind of sound card do you have?


----------



## brown274

An old soundblaster 24bit

 Since USB 3.0 is comming out next year, will a 3.0 DAC work better than the 2.0?

 I would hate to spend $300 now and then a udpated 151 with 3.0 support came out.


----------



## sum1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Maniac* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 BTW, as a side note, DA-152 is now ready to ship. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Please see the following link for more details:
KECES DA-152 Integrated Headphone Amp & DAC. Finally! (READY TO SHIP NOW!)_

 

Maniac, on that page you mention that the RMAA indicates a lower noise floor. Can you please share the full RMAA results for the KECES DAC.


----------



## qib

perhaps this is too much of a simple question for maniac but is the bass strong on the keces-da152? You can post back on the da-152 thread if you like but i would really like to know.


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *brown274* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_An old soundblaster 24bit

 Since USB 3.0 is comming out next year, will a 3.0 DAC work better than the 2.0?

 I would hate to spend $300 now and then a udpated 151 with 3.0 support came out._

 


 USB audio for most chipsets are stuck at USB 1.1 and no further. As for audio products, you do not always aim for the latest, but find the one that fits your budget and stay with it until the upgrade bug bites again.

 But if you are really concerned, you can also consider DA-131.1, but please also budget a little for a bit-perfect output sound cards. I think there are some relatively cheap ones around that can be more suitable than your soundblaster.

 If you do have the budget, then I'd recommend EMU1212M or RME HDSP9632 as digital source.


 Thanks

 David


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sum1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maniac, on that page you mention that the RMAA indicates a lower noise floor. Can you please share the full RMAA results for the KECES DAC._

 

I'll post the RMAA soon, as the reference to the noise floor being lower, it is referencing the unit when being powered by the original analog power and the new analog power. At the time of testing, we have noticed that the low frequency noise of the new power supply is even better than the simple db value had indicated.


----------



## runeks

Hello Maniac.

 I'm getting very interested in DACs. I've been reading about them for the past month or so, but previous to that I didn't even know what they were. I've taken a liking to the Keces because of the fantastic reviews, but I'm still not quite sure of which DAC to buy as there are so many different opinions on the sound quality of all the different DACs available. But you seem like an honest guy so I figured I'd ask you my questions in this thread.

 In a thread I've read, starting in this post (http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/cha...5/#post3680901), people are very fond of the DAC "Channel Islands Audio VDA-2". It is said that because, as far as I can understand, it doesn't have any OP Amp in its output stage it avoids the inherent sonic limitations of an IC OP Amp. It is said that a discrete output stage, all else being equal, will sound better than an output stage with an OP Amp. (Please correct me if I've misunderstood something here, 3 days ago I didn't even know what an OP Amp was 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 What is your opinion on this? Do you disagree with this since the Keces uses an IC OP Amp in its output stage, or is it just more expensive to design a DAC without using OP Amps which would thus make the Keces too expensive?

 Looking forward to your reply.


----------



## Maniac

Hello Runeks,

 IMHO a good design is a good design, it does not matter if it uses op amp or not. For example, one of the things that is a PAIN in the backside for all discrete circuit designer is the matching of the transistors, while such is not much of a big problem with integrated circuits due to the different manufacturing technique used.

 There are advantages for IC based designs while there are also advantages to circuits based on discrete circuits. One other advantage for op-amp based circuits is that once manufacturing and design technique had improved, you can very easily upgrade your device's sound to even better level.

 Such is exactly what happened with DA-131 to DA-131.1 (also upgradeable by customers themselves), which improved the sound quality greatly.



 Really when picking audio stuff, if you can just compare the resulting sound and completely disregard how it is made or what it is made with. You may not always be able to do that, but if you can it would be the best way to go about it. After all, you are not after the parts, but the resulting sound. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 I'd really love to see someone compare my KECES DACs to Channel Islands' stuff, as both of our products are aimed at smaller dimensions, and who knows what the results might be. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Thanks

 David


----------



## runeks

Hey Maniac

 I see your point. The only relevant measure about a DAC should be its sound quality. It's a shame that no one has had a chance to compare the Keces to other DACs in its price range though. I'm kind of waiting for that. The Cambridge DACMagic and Channel Islands VDA-2 would be interesting to compare it with.

 I've also read a bit on the Burson OP Amp (Burson Discrete Opamp) and I see your point there as well. They state themselves that it's necessary to test and match the various components in this OP Amp and that many of them are rejected. I looked at the price of an OP Amp like this and it is about £50! Compared to the $10 for the OP Amp in the 131.1 that _is_ quite a difference!

 But, again, if the sound quality gets that better it might be worth it. If I end up buying a Keces unit I think I'll try these OP Amps in it (provided I can get someone to put them in for me). Even though they are quite big it seems to be possible, there's a picture of a modded Keces 131.1 on the Burson site:






 And this is his comment:

 "_I installed the opamps in the KECES DA-131.1 replacing the LME49710 Opamps. Before the upgrade the LM sounded like I was outside the room listening to the players, but with the discrete opamps I feel like I am now in the room with the players.....awesome. There is a certain snap to the music, more refined highs, extended bass, but articulate, multiple voices better separation, cybals have that life like shimmer, easy to discern nylon strings from metal on acoustic guitars.......overall awsome upgrade._" (1)

 Whether this is an overstatement is hard to tell, but it certainly sounds like there's some difference. Now I only wonder if those £50 spent on OP Amp could have been made to better use elsewhere... Again, the only way to find out is to test. I wish I knew more about circuit design, I'm starting to find it really interesting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## DaMnEd

Such Discrete opamps can be had cheaper here: ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1

 It is now a common opamp upgrade within ZERO DACs owners group, check out this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...re-amp-269458/ (search for audio-gd / OPA-Earth / OPA-Sun / OPA-Moon)

 Also check this one out: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/opa...pdates-372219/


----------



## theeviljesus

Hey guys

 I've been reading through this thread and the Keces 151 seems to be a very interesting option for me since I'm planning to aquire a DAC.
 My current setup is a HP 8510p (foobar/amarok with mostly 320/vbr mp3 and flac) -> L/R RCA from hp out (that sucks I know..) -> Yamaha RX-V659 -> Ultrasone PRO 750.

 I've just some questions left:

I'm also thinking about buying a dedicated HP amp. I have the NX-03/RPX-33 on my candidates list (still need to research on some others like LD/Darkvoice etc). Do you think the Keces is an appropriate source for one of these amps?
@Maniac: In one of your posts you mentioned 
  Quote:


 As well if you are going to use DA-131, I can honestly recommend 1212M as the digital source of DA-131 as the digital output quality of 1212M is of very high quality and pairs well with DA-131 
 

Do you think this combination would be worth the (not so little) extra money in my case to assure that I needn't upgrade later on (let's assume I have one of the mentioned amps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )? (sq wise and concerning the 24bits/192KHz support of 131 about which I'm not even sure wheter I can profit from...)

 Of course the final decison's up to me but anyways I'd appreciate some opinions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Thanks!


----------



## Maniac

Have you considered DA-152, which integrates a high performance headphone amp with DA-151?

 As for DA-131.1, with a bit perfect sound card, it will sound better than DA-151 due to the inherent advantage of better DAC chip and similar supporting circuit.

 Thanks.


----------



## theeviljesus

@Maniac: Thanks for the quick answer, really appreciate that "not-yet-a-costumer"-support you "offer" on Head-Fi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The DA-152 would definitely make things easier (no need to connect different parts) - I hope for some reviews comparing to stand-alone amps with separate DAC since I have no experience with either solution. I'll also search on more general topics concerning hybrid (?) vs stand-alone

 Since money is *not really* the main issue (if I can convince my greedy wallet that the investement is worth it... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) , a pricier setup with the 131 is also possible. Decisions, decisions...

 Recently I've stumbled upon "balanced setups". Since my US 750 isn't balanced that's not yet a questions but still I'm interested wheter there are special requirements on the DAC involved (sorry if that's too much OT). And would the Keces be capable of those?

 Thanks again!


----------



## dunski

After much research I ordered the Keces DA-151 today. Can't wait to get it!

 I have to thank Maniac for his help and his lightning fast response on the order! Thanks


----------



## PuffyElvis

I own a Keces 151 and I must say, I'm very happy with it. Like everyone else whose purchased this DAC, I was blown away by it's performance compared to my computer's sound card. In both cases I had a Starving Student Millet Hybrid amp powering my headphones. The difference was immediately noticeable, without any fancy a/b setup and with every hp I tried (hd650, rs1, gs1000, hp-dx1000)

 So... like your typical audiophile (-holic?), I'm looking for the next bump in performance. I'm thinking of going with the 131.1 with the EMU1212m, but I have a few questions...

 1) It looks like the EMU1212m comes with a primary PCI card and a daughter card. Since the primary card contains the coaxial output, do I even need to install the daughter card?

 2) Any recommendations for a digital coaxial cable? Since the signal is not just 0's and 1's but also contains timing information does the quality/conductor or the cable make a big difference?

 3) Have you experimented with different power cords? Does this make a big difference with a DAC as contrasted with a tube amp, where the quality of the power supply is so critical?

 4) How would you characterize the performance boost of the upgraded RCA jacks? $90 is a lot to spend on a pair of jacks for simply subtle tuning (my subjective opinion...)

 5) Any analog cable recommendations? Something that you might find has great synergy with the 131.1?

 Ok, I know that's a lot of questions, most of which might be outside your experience but who better than the manufacturer might know the answer, right?

 Thank you in advance!

 BTW, I also got my DAC in record time to Chicago... 3-4 days I think...


----------



## dunski

Wow. So here is the story:
 Tuesday 11/11 at about 3PM I contacted David about placing an order... He replied within minutes. I forwarded him my paypal address so he could send me an invoice. I sent him the payment Tuesday evening. Today is 11/14 - THREE days later, and I'm sitting and listening to my new Keces 151. Best customer service I've ever experienced. My DAC made its way from Taiwan to NY in THREE DAYS in perfect condition.


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theeviljesus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@Maniac: Thanks for the quick answer, really appreciate that "not-yet-a-costumer"-support you "offer" on Head-Fi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The DA-152 would definitely make things easier (no need to connect different parts) - I hope for some reviews comparing to stand-alone amps with separate DAC since I have no experience with either solution. I'll also search on more general topics concerning hybrid (?) vs stand-alone

 Since money is *not really* the main issue (if I can convince my greedy wallet that the investement is worth it... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) , a pricier setup with the 131 is also possible. Decisions, decisions...

 Recently I've stumbled upon "balanced setups". Since my US 750 isn't balanced that's not yet a questions but still I'm interested wheter there are special requirements on the DAC involved (sorry if that's too much OT). And would the Keces be capable of those?

 Thanks again!_

 

Currently all KECES products uses single ended signals (RCA cables) for interconnects, balanced output is not an option yet.


 Thanks.

 David


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PuffyElvis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I own a Keces 151 and I must say, I'm very happy with it. Like everyone else whose purchased this DAC, I was blown away by it's performance compared to my computer's sound card. In both cases I had a Starving Student Millet Hybrid amp powering my headphones. The difference was immediately noticeable, without any fancy a/b setup and with every hp I tried (hd650, rs1, gs1000, hp-dx1000)

 So... like your typical audiophile (-holic?), I'm looking for the next bump in performance. I'm thinking of going with the 131.1 with the EMU1212m, but I have a few questions..._

 

Alright. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 1) It looks like the EMU1212m comes with a primary PCI card and a daughter card. Since the primary card contains the coaxial output, do I even need to install the daughter card? 
 

I've not tried it myself, but I've heard people running EMU1212M's digital card without the analog section. And since you only use the digital section, it should be a good idea to try it out without the analog section installed.

  Quote:


 2) Any recommendations for a digital coaxial cable? Since the signal is not just 0's and 1's but also contains timing information does the quality/conductor or the cable make a big difference? 
 

IMHO, digital cable made from belden's 75 ohm coax are a pretty good choice that doesn't cost a lot, Canare 75 ohm connector also appears to be a fairly nice choice.

  Quote:


 3) Have you experimented with different power cords? Does this make a big difference with a DAC as contrasted with a tube amp, where the quality of the power supply is so critical? 
 

It is quite important there as well. Tho I'd suggest upgrading the wall sockets in your home if you have not done it yet, and then upgrade the cable will have the most effect.

  Quote:


 4) How would you characterize the performance boost of the upgraded RCA jacks? $90 is a lot to spend on a pair of jacks for simply subtle tuning (my subjective opinion...) 
 

It is not upgrading the RCA jacks, it is upgrading the IEC power inlet. It is a option that can upgrade and magnify the effect of higher quality power cables.

  Quote:


 5) Any analog cable recommendations? Something that you might find has great synergy with the 131.1? 
 

So far I don't have any good suggestions as of yet, but IeGO will have some signal cable available soon.

  Quote:


 Ok, I know that's a lot of questions, most of which might be outside your experience but who better than the manufacturer might know the answer, right?

 Thank you in advance!

 BTW, I also got my DAC in record time to Chicago... 3-4 days I think... 
 


 Cool 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Thanks


----------



## theeviljesus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Maniac* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Currently all KECES products uses single ended signals (RCA cables) for interconnects, balanced output is not an option yet.


 Thanks.

 David_

 

Hehe just found a thread about balanced DAC after posting my question

 ...first search then ask...lesson learned


----------



## PuffyElvis

Thanks for the reply David! I read the product description on eBay again and (of course) your're right- the upgrade option is for the IEC inlet. I got confused because the RCA jacks in the photo look silver- probably just reflecting light.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theeviljesus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The DA-152 would definitely make things easier (no need to connect different parts) - I hope for some reviews comparing to stand-alone amps with separate DAC since I have no experience with either solution. I'll also search on more general topics concerning hybrid (?) vs stand-alone_

 

One of the nice things about separates is that it allows you to tune your system by choosing difference pieces, including interconnects, to tailor the sound to your liking. I just picked up a pair of silver interconnects and they really helped to brighten up my system- it was sounding a bit too warm for my liking. Of course, that could have been because I removed the offending "overly warm" interconnect... The point being, though, is that separates give you more control over the resulting sound.


----------



## theeviljesus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PuffyElvis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One of the nice things about separates is that it allows you to tune your system by choosing difference pieces, including interconnects, to tailor the sound to your liking. I just picked up a pair of silver interconnects and they really helped to brighten up my system- it was sounding a bit too warm for my liking. Of course, that could have been because I removed the offending "overly warm" interconnect... The point being, though, is that separates give you more control over the resulting sound._

 

Thanks for your opinon. I opened a thread about that question and it got quite a few answers:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/amp...parate-380745/

 don't forget to vote


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PuffyElvis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the reply David! I read the product description on eBay again and (of course) your're right- the upgrade option is for the IEC inlet. I got confused because the RCA jacks in the photo look silver- probably just reflecting light.



 One of the nice things about separates is that it allows you to tune your system by choosing difference pieces, including interconnects, to tailor the sound to your liking. I just picked up a pair of silver interconnects and they really helped to brighten up my system- it was sounding a bit too warm for my liking. Of course, that could have been because I removed the offending "overly warm" interconnect... The point being, though, is that separates give you more control over the resulting sound._

 

Well, DA-152 is developed with the idea that a single compact unit is a lot better suited for situations where you have only limited space (like your office or your compute desk) and want better, much better sound than what can be provided otherwise. Since you no longer need an additional headphone amp/pre, you get a lot more room then otherwise. Since by adding a unit, you not only added a box, but the rooms you need for routing RCA cables around is also saved, and that can be quite a saving if you are using stiff RCA cables.

 The headphone amp we had built into DA-152 is designed with performance in mind (well, I guess you've heard that often enough from every other manufacturers/dealers), and the performance in our opinion is better than a lot of the stand alone headphone amps on the market.

 One of our first customer of DA-152 is using it to drive active speaker in his recording studio, and from what I could tell, he is very happy with the performance so far. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Of course, separate units allow the flexibility of tuning and other advantages, but also adds cost of additional unit, and if you are into quality cables, you will also need to double up on cable costs.



 They all offer different advantages and disadvantages, it would be up to the user's need to determine which one fits their need best.


 Thanks

 David.


----------



## gattari

I have a notebook with an external usb soundcard, the tascam us 144 -24 96 khz 
 What is the best choice for me the da 151 or the 131 with upgrade ?
 Is the tascam 144 digital (with Aes EBU or s/pdif) output good for 131? otherwise is best choice use only the da 151 without the external soundcard?
 Thank you for replay


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gattari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a notebook with an external usb soundcard, the tascam us 144 -24 96 khz 
 What is the best choice for me the da 151 or the 131 with upgrade ?
 Is the tascam 144 digital (with Aes EBU or s/pdif) output good for 131? otherwise is best choice use only the da 151 without the external soundcard?
 Thank you for replay_

 

Hello,

 I'm not sure what type of SPDIF connection Tascam's 144 have, but if it is either Coax or Toslink, then it will work fine with 131.1. I recommend going with DA-131.1 if you have the budget, since DA-131.1 have a performance advantage over DA-151.


 Thanks

 David


----------



## supernerd

I just have a quick question for David or any other Keces owners. With my unit, when the red light is on there is huge amounts of buzzing in my speakers. But this disappears when the red light is off. The problem manifests when the optical cable is not connected, or when my computer is turned off. Normal playback, as far as I can tell, is unaffected. But this does mean that I can't leave the Keces on after I power down the computer.

 Is this faulty? Thanks.


----------



## hohum

It's normal, I have the same thing happen if there is no signal to the DAC. Not ideal, but hasn't affected me too much.


----------



## Maniac

Hello, indeed it is normal. The hissing sound is actually generated by the digital receiver chip when it did not have anything to receive. It seems to be something that 8416 does while the older (and less capable) 8414 doesn't seem to do this.


 Thanks

 David


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## supernerd

Ok, cool. Thanks for the explanation hohum and Maniac.


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## 8140david

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Maniac* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As for checking bit-perfect sound cards, I think put your sound card name into the search function of Head-Fi, you should be able to find out about it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I don't understand.
 Why do you need a bit-perfect sound card with the DA-131?
 Why can't you, on vista, send the signal unmodified using wasapi? If you do so, you're not using the internal sound card, are you?
 Is it that a sdpif output always relies on the internal sound card?


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## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *8140david* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't understand.
 Why do you need a bit-perfect sound card with the DA-131?
 Why can't you, on vista, send the signal unmodified using wasapi? If you do so, you're not using the internal sound card, are you?
 Is it that a sdpif output always relies on the internal sound card?_

 

There's a lot of bit-perfect sound devices, but due to intel's infinite wisdom when defining sound card standards, they decide to resample everything to 48KHz so that they can easily mix sounds digitally. This decision makes sense on the engineering side, where everything gets quite simple when you want to play multiple sound at the same time. You no longer need complex analog mixer and multiple DACs, but they also cut the corner in the resampling system where it is done very poorly and without any way of bypassing the resampler.

 Later sound cards are somewhat poisoned by the spec where they didn't bother to add a feature to bypass the resampler when required. Thus the discussion on bit-perfect capable sound card started, and as it progresses, it appeared that more and more sound chip designer are looking into this feature and even onboard sound seem to carry this feature now.

 That's basically the whole story that I can recall off my head.


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## 8140david

Concerning the DA-152, is the output a regular RCA output? So that one can use regular RCA cables to connect that to an amp like the Cambridge 640A v2?


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## texashorn91

Yes


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## moonboy403

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *8140david* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Concerning the DA-152, is the output a regular RCA output? So that one can use regular RCA cables to connect that to an amp like the Cambridge 640A v2?_

 

Yes.


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## neouser

Hello everybody, I am really interested in buying this dac. I also sent a mail to Maniac on HeadWize but I also write here.

 Actually I own a ESI Juli@ sound card directly connected to 2 active nearfield Yamaha MSP5 Speakers.

 I am not an expert but I do know that Juli@ has a good analog out, only problems is that with this speakers I am experiencing some real annoying noise on the speakers of computer activity (for example when videcard goes in 3d mode etc). So I am searching for a really clean input, with a possibly better quality. 

 I was considering buying the 131.1, but my budget is not really huge so I ask you this:

 The Juli@ has optical onboard and coaxial with multiple adapter coming in the box, BUT I also have a single Coaxial output on my Motherboard, wich is a Realtek ALC1200. In the Vista control Panel I can choose from 44.1 to 192khz so I guess it is not limited to 48khz resamplig?
 If this out is ok I'd use this selling the Juli@ with some money coming back..

 Also I am not going to use Audiophile quality cables because of the cost, for me 365$ of this amp is a huge investment.

 Thank you,
 Marco


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## 03029174

Hi, im really interested in this dac and am looking to pair it with a Grado RA-1 and RS-1's. I dont really understand how the transfer from the PC -> DAC works. I had a v powerful PC but i use it for work and dont have a dedicated soundcard, i have a ASUS P5K Premium motherboard which i run the sound out of directly. Can anyone help me? As i see it i have to purchase an EMU 1212M soundcard or similar to output audio to the DAC ... the thing im missing here is "Where's the USB transfer?" or is it a case that Windows recognises the DAC so the soundcard can transfer the data to it by another means?
 As you can see im alittle confused, any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you


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## wundi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *03029174* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, im really interested in this dac and am looking to pair it with a Grado RA-1 and RS-1's. I dont really understand how the transfer from the PC -> DAC works. I had a v powerful PC but i use it for work and dont have a dedicated soundcard, i have a ASUS P5K Premium motherboard which i run the sound out of directly. Can anyone help me? As i see it i have to purchase an EMU 1212M soundcard or similar to output audio to the DAC ... the thing im missing here is "Where's the USB transfer?" or is it a case that Windows recognises the DAC so the soundcard can transfer the data to it by another means?
 As you can see im alittle confused, any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you_

 

Hello,

 Unless I'm mistaken, Windows recognises a USB DAC (such as DA-151) as an external sound card of sorts, and it functions independently of any PCI(e) or integrated sound cards in the computer. Hopefully this answered your question and if my information is false, then this was quite embarassing and I hope someone corrects me asap. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't really have any experience with USB DACs.

 On a sidenote, your motherboard has an ADI AD1988B audio chip with both coaxial and optical outputs, so basically you could also use that with the DA-131.1, but I don't know if it counts as a "high quality digital source" that Maniac was talking of earlier.


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## wundi

Almost forgot, I had a question of my own too.

 Someone mentioned that the Keces DAC doesn't work together as nicely with a solid state headphone amp as it does with a tube amp. I would very much like to hear more opinions on that.

 For the record, I'm using a pair of HD650's, a Meier Arietta (and on the lookout for a beefier SS amp), and I'm more interested in DA-131.1 than DA-151, if that matters.

 Thanks for any responses.


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## Callous

Hey guys, I emailed David today about why all his units of DA-151's were being pulled off from ebay and audiogon, and he just send me this reply:

  Quote:


 Hello, we are actually preparing the second gen of DA-151, DA-151 MkII, which will be ready in about a couple of weeks.


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## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wundi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello,

 Unless I'm mistaken, Windows recognises a USB DAC (such as DA-151) as an external sound card of sorts, and it functions independently of any PCI(e) or integrated sound cards in the computer. Hopefully this answered your question and if my information is false, then this was quite embarassing and I hope someone corrects me asap. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't really have any experience with USB DACs.

 On a sidenote, your motherboard has an ADI AD1988B audio chip with both coaxial and optical outputs, so basically you could also use that with the DA-131.1, but I don't know if it counts as a "high quality digital source" that Maniac was talking of earlier._

 

You got it exactly right with the way that USB DAC work. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As for the digital output from the motherboard, it should be fine, and I'd recommend using DA-131 in this case.


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## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wundi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Almost forgot, I had a question of my own too.

 Someone mentioned that the Keces DAC doesn't work together as nicely with a solid state headphone amp as it does with a tube amp. I would very much like to hear more opinions on that.

 For the record, I'm using a pair of HD650's, a Meier Arietta (and on the lookout for a beefier SS amp), and I'm more interested in DA-131.1 than DA-151, if that matters.

 Thanks for any responses._

 

I think the choice of tube or solid state would be more of a personal preference (I've tried some tube gears here, and modded some... and I eventually moved back to all solid state setup again...), and since you are looking for a solid state headphone amp, I'll just post the link to our new headphone amp and isolation transformer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




KECES HA-171 Headphone Amp Prototype Sneak Preview~~

KECES PT-111 300W Isolation Transformer.

 Enjoy.


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## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Callous* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, I emailed David today about why all his units of DA-151's were being pulled off from ebay and audiogon, and he just send me this reply:






_

 



 That is true, we were hoping to phase it in quietly... Ah well, currently the expected ship date is the end of this week, so anyone ordering before then will be able to get on the pre-order list. The new price will be increased by $10 to reflect the upgrade cost, but anyone that paid before the shipping date will still get the old $240 + shipping price. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Thanks

 David


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## vic1890

Hi Maniac,

 I was thinking of the KECES - but, have you any idea how it would pair with an SS amp like the Graham Slee Solo? via optical from a macbook to a sennheiser HD 650?

 the 650s are pretty laid back, so I need a forward sounding DAC to bring it out - would you say yours is such a DAC?


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## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vic1890* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Maniac,

 I was thinking of the KECES - but, have you any idea how it would pair with an SS amp like the Graham Slee Solo? via optical from a macbook to a sennheiser HD 650?

 the 650s are pretty laid back, so I need a forward sounding DAC to bring it out - would you say yours is such a DAC?_

 

Hello Vic1890,

 I have not tried Graham Slee's amp myself, but with the current Mk2 version, I'd say 131 is a somewhat forward sounding DAC. However, that still depending on what you compare it to, and just by itself, I'd say that DA-131 Mk2 is a neutral sounding DAC.


 Thanks

 David


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## oqvist

Any owner in here that have a Dacmagic? What is the difference in term of sound? I need to decide before thursday if I want to keep it or send it back.


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## beez

i just got my DA-151 today... all i can say is it's incredible. this is my first USB DAC, and just using it with my PA2v2 amp and SR60's im noticing worlds of difference from the headphone out from my macbook. i seriously can not wait until my RS1's and head direct EF1 get here.


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## dwong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *beez* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i just got my DA-151 today... all i can say is it's incredible. this is my first USB DAC, and just using it with my PA2v2 amp and SR60's im noticing worlds of difference from the headphone out from my macbook. i seriously can not wait until my RS1's and head direct EF1 get here._

 

Congrats is yours the MKII version that David now sells on Ebay? Hopefully mine will arrive sometime next week.


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## Baird GoW

how does this compare to the Audio GD Compass? thanks


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## Baird GoW

bump


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## mango salsa

how noticeable is the difference between the Mk1 version and the newer Mk2 version that is now on ebay? is it worth getting a newer one or am I better off just looking for a used Mk1 for cheaper? is the difference substantial enough to warrant me going for the Mk2? sorry for the noobness, I can't tell by just specs alone.


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## djembeplay

I just bought a new 131 MK2 off of eBay with the upgraded gold plated IEC socket. This is replacing an Audio Mirror D2 NOS DAC.

 I'm excited to hear the differences! I'll post a little review / comparison in a bit.


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## roker

I was thinking of buying a 131 on ebay until I priced it at 400 with shipping which is dacmagic territory. Which is better? I hear so many good things about both, but the dacmagic seems like the holy grail of the sub 400 dac category


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## Maniac

I must remind everyone here that you can get it directly without going through ebay's mechanism, just check out AudiogoN high end audio auctions, classifieds, hifi chat and send a mail through audiogon's system to do it. (Or you can PM me directly) Doing so you will get the price that does not have ebay's overhead added.

 Thanks

 David


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## djembeplay

I was looking at the dacmagic as well. It looks OK. I haven't listened to it, so I cannot comment on it's performance... but it looks like it's an oversampling DAC. I've had both an oversampling and non-oversampling (NOS) DAC... and to my ear, I preferred the NOS DAC. The Keces is a NOS DAC, I believe...

 Also, there are frivolous connections on the dacmagic. Er, I should say they are frivolous for me. I really only need one set of outputs and a coaxial / optical input. I don't like the idea of paying for extra features that I won't use.


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## oqvist

I have listened to the DacMagic and for my ears it´s a non contest to the 131 mk 2 favour... Surely the DacMagic has more connections but one coaxial and one optical is pretty much what I need 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I also have the Valab NOS DAC. I don´t think the Keces is a NOS DAC but may be wrong. Not really to sure what NOS incorporates. The Valab doesn´t have any upsampling anyway. the Valab is nice for classical I like the flow it has. Equal to the Keces there I feel. Otherwise I preferr the Keces... deeper soundstage, absolutely dead silent, even cleaner sound, better dynamics and just more my cup of tea I suppose.


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## Maniac

I must say that all of our DACs are not NOS, PCM1793 (DA-131 series) are AFAIK partial multi-bit, partial oversampling DAC. Most modern DAC chips are of the oversampling type, even the really old TDA-1540 is oversampling type (IIRC). However, we do not use upsampling/sample rate conversion. Data received by the receiver chip (CS8416) is routed to the DAC (PCM1793) via the shortest trace possible without any added processing in the middle.


 In our opinion, simple sample rate conversion does not really do much except possibly losing detail in the process. Most of the high end DAC that does upsampling also do a truckload of other processings that might enhance the sound, which could be the key why some of them are so good. However, with out the added processing, we just don't see simple upsampling via a SRC chip is going to do much other than possibly losing stuff in the conversion process and add additional cost of the SRC chip too.


 Thanks

 David


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## djembeplay

Interesting... thanks for the clarification.

 I am a bit confused... I thought that the term 'non over-sampling' referred to whether the signal is upsampled to 24bit / 192 KHz sound, even if the source is something lower like 16 bit / 44.1 KHz. I had read that the Keces doesn't convert the sample rate... and so I thought by definition that this would mean it is a 'non over-sampling' DAC.

 Am I off? Or are you saying that it isn't a NOS DAC because it is partial oversampling?

 Also, I'm curious as to what it means for the chip to be partial multi-bit and partial oversampling.

 Thanks again for the info!


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## Maniac

Upsampling = converting sampling rate/size from one to another, for example 16bit/44.1KHz to 24bit/96KHz.

 Oversampling = this is a bit more complicated than upsampling. It basically is a way to use DAC that does not have as much bit "width" to function as if it does.

 One simple example can be seen with one of the earliest DAC, TDA-1540 (recalling off the top of my head, so pardon for any errors in my memory). The DAC is a 14bit DAC, but the data is 16bit data... How do you make a 14bit DAC to function as a 16bit DAC? Simple, just make it run 4 times as fast and use the digital filter to generate the proper data for the DAC to produce the effect of 16bit DAC.


 For example, a DAC is able to output voltage level in increments of 1 volt... So how does it output say 1.25V? By quickly switching the output between 1 and 2 volt in the ratio of a 2 volt output with three 1 volt output. With a smoothing circuit at the end (which is what LPF does), and you get something that's really really looking like 1.25V to you.


 That's my understand of the principles, however this is all recalled off the top of my head, so feel free to let me know if I have any mistakes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Thanks

 David


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## djembeplay

Wow, interesting. It's good to get some clarification on the two terms (upsampling and oversampling) as they seem to be often used interchangeably with each other.

 On another note, I wanted to comment on the postings earlier regarding unit pricing... while buying on eBay may be a bit more expensive up front (justifiably compensating for seller fees) as opposed to buying direct, at times you may be able to take advantage of the Live Search cashback discounts... I have no idea how this program works (probably advertising), but it offers percentage discounts to certain items if you use the 'buy it now' function and pay via Paypal. This can lower your price considerably. For example, I just bought a 131 MK2 from eBay and received a 10% cashback discount upon final payment, which effectively dropped my total cost below that of buying direct.

 This may help tilt someone who is on the fence about buying a Keces or not into making the purchase.

 BTW, David - I sent you a few e-mails over the past couple days in regards to my purchase that I want to make sure you have received...

 Tejay
fallbalance@yahoo.com


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## Maniac

Hi Tejay, tracking info is sent to your email.


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## djembeplay

Great, thanks! I'm excited. I will post a review on here of how it sounds in my system as well as how it compares to my previous DAC.


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## roker

I decided to bump this thread just to let you guys know that David of Keces provides excellent customer service. I now own the 151 (bought it 2nd hand) and I had a very small technical issue which David was quick to respond to and ultimately it's fine now and I'm enjoying this very nice sounding DAC. I bit of a departure from the analytical DacMagic (which I enjoyed as well) in that it's not as bright but on the other hand the 151 is more "musical" (I don't know if that's the right word).

 If there's anyone still undecided about buying this DAC, stop! Go for it! I'm thinking this might be a good DAC to pair with Grado's. I'm thinking it'll help balance out Grado's usual bright signature. I will know in a few days when I get my amp.


----------



## Maniac

Hello Roker,

 Thanks for the compliment, second hand or not, out of warranty or not, I think the least I can do is to help the users to resolve the problem. 

 Of course, as an music lover and electronics tinkerer myself, discussions related to such are also welcomed.


----------



## Lantis

I've already pm'ed Maniac about this but checking his profile he hasn't been online for quite a while... so:

 I will be having an LD MK III and an HD650. My source is pc and ipod playing only FLAC/ALAC. The question is:

 - any win/mac/linux pc with usb will work, right?
 - if I have this on my iPod, will it work?


----------



## Maniac

PM replied, DA-151/151 Mk2 will work with basically any recent win/mac/linux machines, I'd say within the last 5 to 7 years should be pretty safe. As for Ipod, that connection is only for ipod to dock to a PC, and will not work in any other way, including connecting to a USB DAC or the like.


 Thanks

 PS: I mostly monitor the forums via the reminder email that the forum sent out automatically, I don't check out the forums as often at the moment, but I still answer all questions directed to me via email, PM or some of the thread that I have subscribed as fast as possible. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Davod


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## mrAdrian

Wake up, old thread!!!
   
  I'm curious as to what are the dac's that people who owned the Keces had upgraded to, or did you kept the unit.
   
  p.s. Maniac you've got pm~!


----------



## Maniac

Quote: 





mradrian said:


> Wake up, old thread!!!
> 
> I'm curious as to what are the dac's that people who owned the Keces had upgraded to, or did you kept the unit.
> 
> p.s. Maniac you've got pm~!


 
   


 Well, after KECES slowly wind down their original product line, we were actively working on new DACs (not from KECES).


----------



## TopPop

Quote: 





mradrian said:


> Wake up, old thread!!!
> 
> I'm curious as to what are the dac's that people who owned the Keces had upgraded to, or did you kept the unit.
> 
> p.s. Maniac you've got pm~!


 
   
  I upgraded from the DA-151 to the DA-152 DAC/AMP combo over four years ago. I haven't upgraded from the DA-152 since, because I've been very happy with it.


----------



## Redo

Still using my DA131 w/ LME49710 op-amps. It really has been a solid great sounding DAC, I'll probably use it as my main DAC for years to come.


----------



## skeptic

I know this thread has been dormant for a while, but I recently stumbled on a nice (and highly favorable) comparison of the keces with several other dacs in the same range over on the polk forums.  Figured the keces owners here might enjoy skimming it: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?133568-Entry-Level-DAC-Comparison-Results
   
  Like Redo, I am still happily listening to my keces 131 w/ LME49710 op-amps, in my main hd800 rig, on a nightly basis 





  I think the enjoythemusic review nailed it in its description and high praise of this great little dac.


----------



## PuffyElvis

Also happily listening to a Keces DA-152 at work and a Keces HA-171 with the Pecahtree iDac at home.  The iDac does add some nice detail over the DA-152.  Overall I still love the punchy nature of these amps.


----------

