# Alps Black Beauty



## a1rocketpilot

I stumbled onto this pot online, but there seems to be very little info on it. I know it is better than the Blue Velvet, but thats about it. Some sources I have seen have said that this is a stepped attenuator, is this true? It seems far too small to be a stepped attenuator. Also, does anyone know any source that still has a supply of these?


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## cetoole

Its not a stepped attenuator, and you can get them from Michael Percy Audio. Beyond that, I dont know too much about them, except they are kinda on the huge side.


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## Nisbeth

There's a german ebay-seller (familygate) which sell these as well. Search his name or RK40 and you should get it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






 /U.


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## afxdave

ALPS doesn't make the RK40 (Black Beauty) pots anymore. They discontinued them a couple of years ago due to lack of demand. They are superior to the RK27 series so far as ruggedness and build quality. For $30 it's not a bad deal since that guy has various resistance values.

 JBL Pro has an overstock of dual 50K log taper RK40's for $10.14

 Part # 15-0396

http://www.jblpro.com/Tent_Sale/index.htm

 Ordering online with them is a little funny, but they do come through. Last time I ordered 6 of them and received 7. The price includes shipping in the US. Be sure to confirm your order after you do it online. They take up to a week to dispatch, but you can't beat the price.


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## MASantos

Do they have the same size and pinout as the rk 27 blue veltet?


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## bg4533

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *afxdave* 
_ALPS doesn't make the RK40 (Black Beauty) pots anymore. They discontinued them a couple of years ago due to lack of demand. They are superior to the RK27 series so far as ruggedness and build quality. For $30 it's not a bad deal since that guy has various resistance values.

 JBL Pro has an overstock of dual 50K log taper RK40's for $10.14

 Part # 15-0396

http://www.jblpro.com/Tent_Sale/index.htm

 Ordering online with them is a little funny, but they do come through. Last time I ordered 6 of them and received 7. The price includes shipping in the US. Be sure to confirm your order after you do it online. They take up to a week to dispatch, but you can't beat the price._

 

Are you positive this is really an Alps Black beauty? It description doesn't list a model number. This is an awesome deal if so.


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## afxdave

If I'm wrong I will eat a bug. I've got a box full of these things here from JBL and am 1000% about them being "it." JBL used them in the UREI 1620 music mixer volume controls from 1982 through 1994.


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## GWN

Alps no longer make their "famed" Black Beauty (aka RK40312 Series) conductive plastic pots at all. The "Black Beauty" pot was so called due to its case color and dimensions - differentiating it from their other, smaller, "Blue Velvet" potentiometer series. The "Black Beauty" is larger than the Blue Velvet, about 1 1/2 times the size of the blue in length, height and depth. 
 However, Alps also used this same case style to build a special-order "series attenuator" as well, primarily for the pro-audio market. Substantially superior sonically to the Blue Velvet, this series attenuator has 21-steps and much better channel-to-channel tracking. I use one in my Gilmore amp. Hard to find but a very good pot.


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## bg4533

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *afxdave* 
_If I'm wrong I will eat a bug. I've got a box full of these things here from JBL and am 1000% about them being "it." JBL used them in the UREI 1620 music mixer volume controls from 1982 through 1994._

 

I am in for a few then. Be prepared to eat that bug if you are wrong though. I won't let you get off easy on the choice of bug either 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for the notice about the pots too.


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## Finch&Music

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MASantos* 
_Do they have the same size and pinout as the rk 27 blue veltet?_

 

No, they certainly have different pin dimensions and they are bigger and heavier. 

 You have to use them apart from a pcb that is layed out for the rk 27 blue velvet! They simply do not fit in the same positions!

 When you want thechnical specs look for it on Ebay.de and search for ALPS RK40312. Look for the thechnical information by scrolling down. 

 I do not know if they in reality sounds better than the RK 27 series, they certainly are more expensive.


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## a1rocketpilot

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GWN* 
_However, Alps also used this same case style to build a special-order "series attenuator" as well, primarily for the pro-audio market. Substantially superior sonically to the Blue Velvet, this series attenuator has 21-steps and much better channel-to-channel tracking. I use one in my Gilmour amp. Hard to find but a very good pot._

 

That is the pot referred to here:

http://www.partsconnexion.com/econne...nnex_v1n1.html

 isn't it? Does anyone have any experience ordering from this dealer? If so, are there any hassles with ordering from a non-domestic dealer?


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## blip

Woah! That's a very good deal on the black beauty... I may need to pick up a few of those little buggers. At that price even a cheapy like me can get aboard!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *a1rocketpilot* 
_That is the pot referred to here:

http://www.partsconnexion.com/econne...nnex_v1n1.html

 isn't it? Does anyone have any experience ordering from this dealer? If so, are there any hassles with ordering from a non-domestic dealer?_

 

Never actually ordered from partsconnexion (too rich for my blood) myself but they are one of the go to dealers for quite a few DIYers around here... I've never heard of anyone in the US having any problems with getting their orders.


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## GWN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *a1rocketpilot* 
_That is the pot referred to here:

http://www.partsconnexion.com/econne...nnex_v1n1.html

 isn't it? Does anyone have any experience ordering from this dealer? If so, are there any hassles with ordering from a non-domestic dealer?_

 


 Yes it is. That's where I got mine. But they are out of stock. The listing you posted is three years old.


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## a1rocketpilot

Do you know of any stores that may still stock the series attenuator? Or would it just be best to go ahead and get the normal pot from JBL or some other store?


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## bg4533

I just ordered a few of those pots from JBLPro. That is the stupidest ordering system I have ever seen. If anyone intends to order from them note that the website is not encrypted or secured in any way. I used a virtual card number from citibank so I am not concerned.


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## afxdave

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *afxdave* 
_Ordering online with them is a little funny, but they do come through. Last time I ordered 6 of them and received 7. The price includes shipping in the US. Be sure to confirm your order after you do it online. They take up to a week to dispatch, but you can't beat the price._

 

Call them to confirm your order. They can take a day to get it completed and then some to get it dispatched. Not the most efficient system, but it's not like JBL is hurting for business, nor having trouble keeping up with it's current ventures.


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## skyskraper

so what are jbl/soundcraft using in the "new" 1620's?

 edit: love the look of your lollipop earphones, oneof my friends just got some pioneers done by you he seems to love them.


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## afxdave

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *skyskraper* 
_so what are jbl/soundcraft using in the "new" 1620's?

 edit: love the look of your lollipop earphones, oneof my friends just got some pioneers done by you he seems to love them._

 

RK27 aka "Blue Velvet"


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## skyskraper

hrmm interesting, would account for the difference in feel between them i guess.


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## bg4533

My pots arrived today. I actually forgot I ordered these things. These pots are huge. They are heavy and seem solid. I haven't listened to them, but for the money they seem like an awesome value. I attached a picture of the Alps I just received (Black Beauty I guess) next to a Alps Blue Velvet. The Blue Velvet seems tiny in comparison.


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## Icy006

Whoa! What a beast.

 If I determine that I can actually hear the difference between a blue velvet and a high-end stepped attenuator, then I might have to pick up some black beauty pots.

 For some reason the whole discrete clicks thing with stepped attenuators gets on my nerves, so if this pot sounds just as good, I'm pysched! Anyone try controlled testing with these monsters?

 Though, I wonder how the RK50 sounds...


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## bg4533

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Icy006* 
_Whoa! What a beast.

 If I determine that I can actually hear the difference between a blue velvet and a high-end stepped attenuator, then I might have to pick up some black beauty pots.

 For some reason the whole discrete clicks thing with stepped attenuators gets on my nerves, so if this pot sounds just as good, I'm pysched! Anyone try controlled testing with these monsters?

 Though, I wonder how the RK50 sounds..._

 

Testing tracking or what? If I get bored maybe I will test a bit. I have 3 of them here now. I might have to order some more if they perform well. Even if they perform the same as the Blue Velvet they are cheaper...


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## doobooloo

Whoa! Just noticed this thread.

 So this pot is actually stepped with 21 steps?

 This is really interesting for balanced applications! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Please let us know how the thing sounds/measures! I may order a few too...


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## flecom

no i think its a regular pot... there is a stepped version but its very hard to find

 how hard would it be to take two of these and make it into one 4ch pot?


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## MisterX

Quote:


 how hard would it be to take two of these and make it into one 4ch pot? 
 

If you can handle fabricating a mounting bracket all it would take is three gears and a shaft extender. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 example----> http://www.parttimeprojects.com/audi...s/gears_02.JPG


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## robzy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MisterX* 
_If you can handle fabricating a mounting bracket all it would take is three gears and a shaft extender. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 example----> http://www.parttimeprojects.com/audi...s/gears_02.JPG_

 

That _couldnt_ be good for balance :S

 Rob.


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## afxdave

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bg4533* 
_My pots arrived today. I actually forgot I ordered these things. These pots are huge. They are heavy and seem solid. I haven't listened to them, but for the money they seem like an awesome value. I attached a picture of the Alps I just received (Black Beauty I guess) next to a Alps Blue Velvet. The Blue Velvet seems tiny in comparison._

 

Glad to hear they came in fine. No bug eating for me.

 With the ALPS you can dampen the torque or lubricate it to your liking with a few fluids. To dampen, there is a company called Syn-Tech (www.syn-techlube.com) who will be more than happy to send you samples of their fuilds. Buying from them isn't cheap and not usually worth it unless you are an engineer at a radio station or recording studio. These are good for maintaining the potentiometers over time to retain their "tight" feel. Then for lubing there is the obvious Caig FaderLube; which can loosen the pot as you like, and help clean it too.

 Also, beware that they aren't fully sealed and that the green plastic is the only protection from the outside. I've ruined a perfectly good pot this way by letting both lube and flux remover get inside. Be sure to use a Q-Tip, or needle applicator for any fluids, so that they only go on the shaft.


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## doobooloo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *flecom* 
_no i think its a regular pot... there is a stepped version but its very hard to find

 how hard would it be to take two of these and make it into one 4ch pot?_

 

The PartsConnexion site says it's stepped with 21 steps though...?


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## flecom

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *doobooloo* 
_The PartsConnexion site says it's stepped with 21 steps though...? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

right, thats the stepped version which was a special-order... they havent had any for years i believe tho


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## Pars

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *doobooloo* 
_The PartsConnexion site says it's stepped with 21 steps though...? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

If its anything like the Alps Blue ('80s vintage) in my preamp, it isn't actually a stepped attenuator (as far as I can tell)... it just has click stops built in. The TKD CP2511s are available with this as well... personally I don't like it and was going to change the one in my preamp for an RK27 I got from Tangent until I discovered that somewhere along the years they've changed the form factor of the pot to the point where I couldn't board mount the replacement.


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## doobooloo

Quote:


 If its anything like the Alps Blue ('80s vintage) in my preamp, it isn't actually a stepped attenuator (as far as I can tell)... it just has click stops built in. 
 

Yeah, that's what I was looking for, just a plain pot with click stops.


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## bg4533

The pots I received are just regular pots, no steps.


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## cetoole

I got my 3 today, thanks for the heads up on the sale.


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## motherone

I just picked one up a few as well. Should be interesting to compare them to the RK27.


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## Garbz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *robzy* 
_That _couldnt_ be good for balance :S

 Rob._

 

Oh no? Why not. If the balance is out then you can always remove the middle gear and adjust the L/R balance. I used a similar system except with 2 gears since one pot was mounted in reverse. Each pot controlled either +ve or -ve and I never had any balance problems.

 I only dumped this because the motor on one pot was not strong enough to drive both pot properly and I like my remotes.


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## Alfiax

Got a few of these in yesterday evening. It's interesting to compare the feel of the shafts between the rk27 and the rk40; the rk40 has far more resistance, though that could be a result of sitting in the jbl warehouse for over ten years. Instead of lubricating I think I'm just going to use larger knobs on these to generate more torque. They seem like they would be in the sweet spot for this; the rk27 in my dynalo has a larger knob but feels like it has too little damping.

 Reading over this post in preview I've noticed a creepy subtext, here and throughout the thread- I hope getting these pots isn't compensating for some other kind of inadequacy. Just hope no one you know gets a stepped attenuator...


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## Icy006

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bg4533* 
_Testing tracking or what? If I get bored maybe I will test a bit. I have 3 of them here now. I might have to order some more if they perform well. Even if they perform the same as the Blue Velvet they are cheaper..._

 

I would be interested in even a simple subjective opinion. Can you hear a difference in sound quality?


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## bg4533

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Icy006* 
_I would be interested in even a simple subjective opinion. Can you hear a difference in sound quality?_

 

I haven't had the time to touch anything DIY related in a while. I'll be sure to post back when I get a chance to try these out.


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## saab

Has anyone tried these yet? I just got the four that I ordered today, but it will be a bit until I can put them to use.

 Any opinions?

 Thanks
 -John


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## endia

hi,
 who wants to sell me a few of these beuty, jbl isn't sending overseas


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## Voodoochile

The stepped version has a plastic gear to enable the 'click stops'. It is still a continuous plastic element pot, not a "stepped attenuator" in the true sense.

 That is to say that it is not a series or ladder attenuator, but is a potentiometer that has click-stops.

 It is a very nice pot, with a nicer feel than the Alps Blue (albeit they are freaking huge). I just wanted to clarify that you are not buying a stepped attenuator when you get a black beauty that clicks. You are getting a volume pot that clicks like an attenuator.

 Helluva good price, I have to say. I have a click-stop one I bought a couple years ago, it was more like $30. But even at that price, it was a fair deal... it's a great volume pot with outstanding channel matching. I have not tried these from JBL, personally, but the do look the same. If they are, that's a smokin' deal.


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## motherone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *saab* 
_Has anyone tried these yet? I just got the four that I ordered today, but it will be a bit until I can put them to use.

 Any opinions?

 Thanks
 -John_

 

I've got a few sitting around as well, but haven't had time to put them to use. I have a couple of projects coming up in the next month or so that will hopefully let me try 'em out.


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## Nospam

Anyone know how long it typically takes for JBL to ship these out? I placed an order about 4 weeks ago and haven't seen a thing yet.


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## Juergen

I got mine in a little over a week (I ordered a pair in mid December). I gave them a call and they promptly gave me a tracking number.


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## kilkil

I got mine in about a week also.


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## randytsuch

I guess I missed it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I did not get a chance to order them before, I was just going to, and I don't see them listed anymore. 

 I thought they had a bunch of them before (over a 100). Either I was wrong, or somebody bought a ton of them.

 Randy


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## Buzzerbro

JBL told me that they are sold out. The Alps RK40 pot was discontinued and they were being sold under cost. Shoot them an email. They are very helpful.


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## ericj

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Voodoochile* 
_The stepped version has a plastic gear to enable the 'click stops'. It is still a continuous plastic element pot, not a "stepped attenuator" in the true sense.

 That is to say that it is not a series or ladder attenuator, but is a potentiometer that has click-stops.

 It is a very nice pot, with a nicer feel than the Alps Blue (albeit they are freaking huge). I just wanted to clarify that you are not buying a stepped attenuator when you get a black beauty that clicks. You are getting a volume pot that clicks like an attenuator._

 

My fake alps pots have a bunch of 8th watt resistors in them. Want pictures?


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## Voodoochile

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ericj* 
_My fake alps pots have a bunch of 8th watt resistors in them. Want pictures?_

 

I have two of those myself, they do indeed. Those are fake Blue Velvets.

 The Black Beauty is a continuous plastic element potentiometer. The "stepped" version has a plastic gear that gives the 'clicky' feel, but it's also a continuous plastic element pot. A very nice one at that.

 If it has discrete resistors, it is not a real Alps pot.


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## Buzzerbro

The shaft is 6mm


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## afxdave

Got a few of these I'm selling off.  More details to follow in the marketplace forums.


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