# Difference between " upper bass", " mid bass" and " lower bass"



## chetanappu007

Hi guys, can anyone explain the difference between " upper bass", " mid bass" and " lower bass". Please explain in simple terms as i am no good with the technical terms. Just curious about it as most of the headphones reviews talk about these things. Give examples if possible.
  
 Thanks in advance.
  
 I use Bayerdynamic dt770 pro 80ohm headphones with a Fiio E11 amp. I really enjoy listening to them at normal volume level but,when i increase the volume a bit high i feel that the sound coming from these headphones are somehow not very clear and the bass is not very accurate or tight( it feels like it is somewhat muddy). I am just trying to understand what this is all about. Also please do give me suggestions on how to improve the sound quality of the headphones. If i have posted this in the wrong section, forgive me.


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## mikeaj

Bass is the low frequencies.  Upper bass would be the kinda low frequencies, mid bass would be the pretty low frequencies (lower than upper bass), and lower bass would be the really low frequencies (lower than mid bass).  I don't think there's a standard for precise definitions for which frequencies, so there may be some disagreement and confusion with regards to the language used.  There are a couple issues with this, but this might help:
http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm
   
  They only divide bass into "Sub Bass" and "Bass" there, but it's the same idea.  Sub (lower) bass is lower.
   
   
  As for what's going on when you're listening...some people might blame the amp or headphones, but it could be a number of other things (personally I really doubt it's the amp at fault, unless you have a defective sample).  First of all, ears are weird, and we hear things differently at different volumes—not just how loud things are, but some aspects are masked and others brought forth more; the balance changes.  That's normal, and these kinds of effects exist no matter what setup you have.  Maybe increased volume is letting you hear details or problems with some part of your setup (possibly a cruddy music recording, a low bitrate file, maybe some really flaky audio source that's connected to the E11).  Or maybe the volume's just too high for your ears.  Maybe you accidentally also turned the bass boost on.


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## chetanappu007

Thanks a lot for the link, it has helped me a lot in understanding the different sounds. 
  Coming to the issue with the headphones, i use lossless audio files(.flac) and play them in my laptop. I don't use the bass boost function on my amp as these hedphones are already bass heavy. As you have said it may be also because of the high volume levels because different people hear differently. But i definitely want to try everything i can do to resolve the issue before blaming my ears.
  Thanks for the reply, keep the suggestions coming in.


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## RPGWiZaRD

For me it goes:
   
      0 - 80Hz: Lower-bass / subbass range
   80 - 150Hz: Mid-bass
  150 - 250Hz Upper-bass
   
  You can download for example Audacity which is freeware program which can generate sinwave frequencies, where you could for example compare how 50Hz vs 100Hz vs 200Hz sounds like.
   
  If you want some examples for example the thumping here is what I'd concider midbass & upperbass which is often used in techno/trance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpgzpxVk7qU
   
  Some subbass (very low), the low-humming only:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FonmhUBsXOY
   
  The DT770 Pro aren't known for having a tight bass, it's very subbass skewed, so it's rather slow. Subbass = slower decay (rumbles), midbass & upper-bass = faster decay / "punches". Both DT770 Pro and XB700 were too subbass skewed for my taste, I want equally strong mid & subbass personally so both the "rumble" and "punching" is balanced in volume.  Particularly important for hardstyle which combines these different bass frequencies, there you talk about a punch & kick which refers to mid/upper bass & subbass.
   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgIdLni_FOM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGJNTcznPUo


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## chetanappu007

RPGWiZaRD your answer is really awesome and simple. You explained it all with just 2 words " *rumbles" *and *" punches".* You are exactly right my headphones are good when it comes to these rumbles, but the punches are muddy at high volumes. According to you these headphones are made that way. Is there any way i can make the mid and upper bass more tight and controlled?


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## RPGWiZaRD

Quote: 





chetanappu007 said:


> RPGWiZaRD your answer is really awesome and simple. You explained it all with just 2 words " *rumbles" *and *" punches".* You are exactly right my headphones are good when it comes to these rumbles, but the punches are muddy at high volumes. According to you these headphones are made that way. Is there any way i can make the mid and upper bass more tight and controlled?


 
   
  Well different amps bring different results but it may just be the wrong headphone for you which it was for me but for me it wasn't just the lacking midbass but also very recessed midrange versus a bit too pronounced highs for my liking.


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## iim7V7IM7

Here is another way to think about it....

Low Bass 20 - 80 Hz

Pipe Organ down to <20 Hz 
Piano down to 28 Hz
5-string bass down to 30 Hz
4-string bass down to 41 Hz
Cello down to 63 Hz

Mid Bass 80 - 320 Hz

Guitar down to 80 Hz
Timpani Drum down to 90 Hz
Tenor Sax down to 110 Hz 
Trumpet down to 170 Hz
Flute down to 250 Hz

It's not about test signals, it's about music (at least to me). 

Yes, there is some cool stuff that goes on < 50 Hz and > 10 kHz, but 99% of what we listen to lies here. Hearing is generally considering to be between 20 hz to 20 kHz. My hearing now attenuates around 16 kHz (gettin old). Keep in mind that I cited low notes for these instruments. Most of there sounds goes into the midrange ( > 320 Hz, < 5,000 Hz). Many Headfi audiofiles focus on subsonic bass ( < 20 Hz) and very deep bass (20 - 40 Hz ) when discussing headphones. While it is cool, there just not that much music down there other than an occasional low note and resonances. Part of perceiving deep bass is physical and goes beyond one's ears which headphones are limited to.

My $.02

Bob


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## germanium

To me low bass is below 40Hz, mid bass is from 40-80Hz, upper bass is from 80-160Hz, above this you are getting into the lower mids whic is 160-320Hz. the mid mids go from 320 to about 1KHz, from 1KHZ to 3KHzis upper mids to me, this is also the presense region & where human hearing is the sharpest. Lower treble goes from 3KHz to 6KHz, regular treble from 6KHz to 12KHz & high treble is anything above that.
   
  Note that I allocate more bandwidth to the midrange type frequencies, close to 6 octaves. These are the most musically interesting frequencies. You can do without the others without losing to much of the vibrance of the music with the exception of the lower treble which is important to the mids as that is where much of the mids overtones are. None of the other ranges of music are interesting at all by themselves. Bass has overtones the extend into the mids & even sometines into the treble. Without these overtones bass instuments are pretty dull to listen to.
   
  Most speakers can not really do low bass well & that includes many so called subwoofers, Mine didn't originally until I modified it.


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## NimbleTurtle

To add to these specific examples, a 110 hertz would be the very beginning note (G) of this famous cello suite prelude: 
   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6yuR8efotI
   
  If you can't hear it well, listen to other recordings. The "G" note actually repeats over and over for the first few beginning part of the successive measures. As you can tell, the "G" string - 2nd string from the left -is about the same pitch as a low male voice.


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## NimbleTurtle

Quote: 





nimbleturtle said:


> To add to these specific examples, a 110 hertz would be the very beginning note (G) of this famous cello suite prelude:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6yuR8efotI
> 
> If you can't hear it well, listen to other recordings. The "G" note actually repeats over and over for the first few beginning part of the successive measures. As you can tell, the "G" string - 2nd string from the left -is about the same pitch as a low male voice.


 
  Oh oops I was thinking of the wrong note. I was thinking of low A, which is 110 hertz. The G would be somewhere around 90-100 hertz. Sorry!


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## NimbleTurtle

Argh wish I understood this better as well. I know exactly what the hertz ranges are for each type of bass. However, I have a hard time distinguishing the pitch of a note, especially with synthetic / drum sounds. If it was something that was like the sound of a cello, it would be much easier to distinguish. 
   
  Btw I'm pretty sure head-fi made a list of "vocabulary" for musical terms. In it, they describe the range of the bass, midrange, and treble. Too lazy to find it though.


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## bigshot

You can google up a chart that assigns frequencies to notes. For instance A is 440hZ. Look up "A440 musical notes Hz". That should do it.


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## NimbleTurtle

Quote: 





bigshot said:


> You can google up a chart that assigns frequencies to notes. For instance A is 440hZ. Look up "A440 musical notes Hz". That should do it.


 
  Yeah. If TC has a piano, and knows where middle C is, he can easily find A = 400 hertz. Basically TC, an octave above doubles the hertz and an octave lower halves the hertz. 
   
  So if you go 8 notes below the A, the A = 220 hertz.


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## NimbleTurtle

Quote: 





nimbleturtle said:


> Oh oops I was thinking of the wrong note. I was thinking of low A, which is 110 hertz. The G would be somewhere around 90-100 hertz. Sorry!


 
  Ah shizz. I made another mistake *facepalm. The opening G is actually closer to around 220 hertz. I can't do simple math


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## stv014

The ~100 Hz (G) guess was actually correct


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## mikeaj

Yeah, G string on cello is G2 (98 Hz), bottom line on staff for bass clef.
   
  Here's another chart with piano and string instrument pitches:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_key_frequencies
   
  those string instruments and their harmonics... somehow it's hard for me to hear the fundamental too, sometimes.


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## NimbleTurtle

Quote: 





mikeaj said:


> Yeah, G string on cello is G2 (98 Hz), bottom line on staff for bass clef.
> 
> Here's another chart with piano and string instrument pitches:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_key_frequencies
> ...


 
  What the hell I'm so confused now  
   
  I know my opening "A" on the Cello is A= 440 hertz. I divided that number by 2, which would give me A = 220 on the G string... but wait a min. 
   
  Actually now I"m starting to realize the possibility of cello A = 220 hertz, but people tune with A =440 hertz just out of convenience, since the violins  are an octave higher... that's the only possible explanation....


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## Penarin

Has anyone ever seen a web page that talks about the bass frequencies of notes in popular songs?
   
  Ever since I got my first sub many years ago, Going Back To Cali (LL Cool J) has always stood out to me.  Is that bass hit 40Hz?  60Hz?
   
  Same with The Way You Make Me Feel by MJ.  Great bassline that seems to go up and down some.
   
  Bone Thugs have always gone with lots of deep bass.  It would just be interesting to know some of the frequencies in these songs.
   
  Those songs are all put together on a drum machine, right?


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## stv014

Quote: 





penarin said:


> Has anyone ever seen a web page that talks about the bass frequencies of notes in popular songs?


 
   
  You can always check it yourself with an audio editor, like it was done above


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## mikeaj

Quote: 





nimbleturtle said:


> What the hell I'm so confused now
> 
> I know my opening "A" on the Cello is A= 440 hertz. I divided that number by 2, which would give me A = 220 on the G string... but wait a min.
> 
> Actually now I"m starting to realize the possibility of cello A = 220 hertz, but people tune with A =440 hertz just out of convenience, since the violins  are an octave higher... that's the only possible explanation....


 
   
  A string on cello is A3 (220 Hz).  The concertmaster plays A4 (440 Hz) on violin, or you get A4 from oboe or piano or something else, an octave higher than the cello, as you said.  Anybody else's A will sound out of tune if it's not a multiple or fraction of it—it doesn't matter whether it's A4 or something else.
   
  When people say A 440, they're taking about tuning A4 to be 440 Hz rather than 442 Hz or something else like some people do in Europe and elsewhere.  Not everybody's actually playing 440 Hz fundamental.
   
   
  G2 (98 Hz) is about as low as many men (tenors, untrained baritones maybe...I think) can comfortably sing with a good tone, corresponding to the starting note on the Bach cello suite.


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## NimbleTurtle

Quote: 





mikeaj said:


> A string on cello is A3 (220 Hz).  The concertmaster plays A4 (440 Hz) on violin, or you get A4 from oboe or piano or something else, an octave higher than the cello, as you said.  Anybody else's A will sound out of tune if it's not a multiple or fraction of it—it doesn't matter whether it's A4 or something else.
> 
> When people say A 440, they're taking about tuning A4 to be 440 Hz rather than 442 Hz or something else like some people do in Europe and elsewhere.  Not everybody's actually playing 440 Hz fundamental.
> 
> ...


 
  Aha! So my theory was right on the spot! Not that it was difficult to come up with XD 
   
  Personally, I hate how they have a standard pitch for everything. A = 440 is really dull sounding imo, since you're so used to hearing it yet. Same with the concept of hearing a piece in C Major. You just hear it too often. Love listening to baroque recordings at A = 415, but once again, same problem. I really love listening to multiple renditions with different pitches set to them. 
   
  Correct me if I'm wrong but most vocals sounds like it's around the range of 110 hertz to 1760 hertz right? People seem to label female vocals as "upper midrange", which is 2-6 khtz. I feel the majority of female vocals are below 1760 hertz. But I'm not too sure.


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## stv014

Quote:  





> Correct me if I'm wrong but most vocals sounds like it's around the range of 110 hertz to 1760 hertz right? People seem to label female vocals as "upper midrange", which is 2-6 khtz. I feel the majority of female vocals are below 1760 hertz. But I'm not too sure.


 
   
  The fundamental frequency is indeed normally below 1760 Hz (A6), and even C6 (~1046.5 Hz) is a relatively high pitch. But in the 2-6 kHz range there can be overtones with still significant amplitude (possibly even higher than that of the fundamental frequency).


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## mikeaj

I've not analyzed them and never heard about it, but I imagine that a lot of the 'sss', 'sh', 'k', 'p', etc. sounds have a lot of higher-frequency content.  The fundamental of the tones themselves are not that high really, though there is going to be significant energy in overtones.
   
  The famous aria by the Queen of the Night in Mozart's _The Magic Flute _is supposed to show off a pretty high range.  The soprano there needs to go to F6—the note at the top of the arpeggio—a fundamental of 1397 Hz.  A6 is way up there for the human voice, though of course there professionals and rare types out there that can do plenty more.


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## NimbleTurtle

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> The fundamental frequency is indeed normally below 1760 Hz (A6), and even C6 (~1046.5 Hz) is a relatively high pitch. But in the 2-6 kHz range there can be overtones with still significant amplitude (possibly even higher than that of the fundamental frequency).


 
  Does the balance of the frequency response around that higher region really fundamental in the way we hear the overtones? For instance, if we heard some note at A = 440, and the headphone had extended very well into the overtone range (880, 1760, etc.) would the A at 440 sound richer?


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## bigshot

Overtones are what make an oboe sound different than a flute. Accuracy always helps.


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## mikeaj

nimbleturtle said:


> Does the balance of the frequency response around that higher region really fundamental in the way we hear the overtones? For instance, if we heard some note at A = 440, and the headphone had extended very well into the overtone range (880, 1760, etc.) would the A at 440 sound richer?


 
   
  The frequency response affects fundamental tones just as it does overtones.  It's not like the playback gear can tell which is which.  If it's 5 dB too soft at 880, 1320, etc. compared to 440 Hz, then the balance is off whenever an A440 is played because the overtones will be too weak compared to what it's supposed to sound like.  If it's 5 dB too loud at  880, 1320, etc. compared to 440 Hz, then the balance is off whenever an A440 is played because the overtones will be too strong compared to what it's supposed to sound like.
   
  If overtones are emphasized, that can sound richer.  Then again, different frequencies could be fundamentals and overtones for different sounds.  Let's say that 400 Hz is too loud relative to everything else.  Then a 200 Hz (or 100 Hz, etc.) tone may sound funky, with the 400 Hz overtone too loud.  Then when a note is played with 400 Hz fundamental, then all the overtones sound too soft (so unrich? who knows).  You have problems with balance in both directions, not to mention the main issue that notes at 400 Hz sound too loud in the first place.
   
  Quote: 





bigshot said:


> Overtones are what make an oboe sound different than a flute. Accuracy always helps.


 
   
  Nah, it's the oboist, not to mention the dedication to the dark arts of bending reed chips in half and woodcrafting.


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## bigshot

I've found balancing out the bass response is the hardest.


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