# Confused - Can the amp be bypassed on Fiio E17?



## cinemaphonic

Hey Guys,
   
  I'm new here and to the world of audiophiles. I finally got fed up with my crappy bose speakers/headphones and forked out the cash for some Swan Mkii's and Sony mdr-v6's.
   
  I've been researching DAC's like crazy and I've settled on either the Fiio E10 or E17. I want to use the amp/dac combo for my mdr-v6's and portability isn't a huge issue, though it would be nice (which is why the E17's are on the table). 
   
  The thing is I want to use the DAC feature only for my Swan's since they are active speakers. I've already seen how the E10 amp can be bypassed, but can it be done with the E17? I searched all over and could not find my answer. It is quite possible that i'm not searching correctly which is why I'm finally just asking. I saw a lot of discussion about bypassing the DAC, and the LO bypass feature which I don't think applies here. 
   
  If not I'm happy to get the E10, but the portability and supposed quality increase of the E17 is really tugging at me, though it will lose if I can't do DAC only for my Swan's.
   
  Thanks so much, I'm glad I finally joined the community.


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## JamesFiiO

if you wants to bypass the amp of E17, all you need to do is buy a L7 with E17, and connect the L7 to the dock of E17, set the LO bypass to ON, them you get the line out signal from E17.


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## cinemaphonic

Beautiful, thank you. E17 it is.


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## frix

Is the EQ/Tone control still working when using LO Bypass?


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## stv014

Quote: 





frix said:


> Is the EQ/Tone control still working when using LO Bypass?


 
   
  If it is a digital EQ, then yes.


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## ClieOS

frix said:


> Is the EQ/Tone control still working when using LO Bypass?







stv014 said:


> If it is a digital EQ, then yes.




It is hardware based so no. If you want EQ than you have to set the LO Bypass to output pre-amp signal instead of LO.


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## peternguyen

I'm still a little bit confused by the LO Bypass feature. I currently own the Fiio E17 and will be soon getting the Fiio E09K, and I know that if you want to be able to use the equalizer on the E17 still, you will need to set the device to pre-amp the signal, but this also means that the volume control on the E17 is active.
   
  Does this mean that the sound is being amped twice? Does setting up the E17 and E09K like this degrade the sound quality in any way? What is the optimal volume that the E17 should be on while using the E09K to primarily control the volume?


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## ClieOS

Quote: 





peternguyen said:


> I'm still a little bit confused by the LO Bypass feature. I currently own the Fiio E17 and will be soon getting the Fiio E09K, and I know that if you want to be able to use the equalizer on the E17 still, you will need to set the device to pre-amp the signal, but this also means that the volume control on the E17 is active.
> 
> *Does this mean that the sound is being amped twice?* Does setting up the E17 and E09K like this degrade the sound quality in any way? What is the optimal volume that the E17 should be on while using the E09K to primarily control the volume?


 
   
  Yes, LO Bypass means you are going to double amp the signal.
   
  In theory, double amp will degrade SQ. In real life however, double amping a very clean signal will result in minimum lost in SQ, probably too small to be audible. A general rule for double amping is, always keep the source on high volume but not full, says 90~95%, and make sure it is distortion free.


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## peternguyen

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Yes, LO Bypass means you are going to double amp the signal.
> 
> In theory, double amp will degrade SQ. In real life however, double amping a very clean signal will result in minimum lost in SQ, probably too small to be audible. A general rule for double amping is, always keep the source on high volume but not full, says 90~95%, and make sure it is distortion free.


 
   
  Thanks for the explanation. Considering that I will be using the Fiio E17/E09K via USB, will there be any distortion? If so, how can I minimize it?
   
  Also, would it be best to completely turn off the gain on the E17 when using it with the E09K?


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## ClieOS

There is no distortion on the E17/E09K that I know of, so there is no need to worry about it.
   
  Yes, set it to zero gain.


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## peternguyen

Quote: 





clieos said:


> There is no distortion on the E17/E09K that I know of, so there is no need to worry about it.
> 
> Yes, set it to zero gain.


 
   
  Thanks again for the advice. I have just received my E09K and I am having trouble with the gain setting on the E17. It appears that every time I turn off the gain on the E17, whenever I power on the E09K with the E17 docked, the E17 will have its gain setting back to 6dB; it won't stay off when docked. Is there a way to keep the gain off?


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## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





peternguyen said:


> Thanks again for the advice. I have just received my E09K and I am having trouble with the gain setting on the E17. It appears that every time I turn off the gain on the E17, whenever I power on the E09K with the E17 docked, the E17 will have its gain setting back to 6dB; it won't stay off when docked. Is there a way to keep the gain off?


 
   
  sorry not, if the gain remain 12dB, the output is too high and there may has distortion when the output set to max and the LO bypass set to off.


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## peternguyen

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> sorry not, if the gain remain 12dB, the output is too high and there may has distortion when the output set to max and the LO bypass set to off.


 
   
  I'm not exactly sure I understand what you mean. When powering on the E09K+E17, the gain on the E17 defaults to 6dB. This happens even when the E09K is not connected to any source, so I would assume that if there is no signal, then there would be no distortion; it purely seems that the E17 is just defaulting to a 6dB gain when docked.


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## ClieOS

I think it is a firmware setting. 12dB gain is too high (which will clip the input of E09k) so FiiO set the firmware to automatically reset itself to 6dB gain when docked in USB model. I do remember you can set it manually back to zero gain, but 6dB gain should be safe to use as well, without clipping the input (and thus no distortion). This only affects the LO Bypass mode too. Since in LO mode, it will be at zero gain regardless of gain setting.


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## peternguyen

Quote: 





clieos said:


> I think it is a firmware setting. 12dB gain is too high (which will clip the input of E09k) so FiiO set the firmware to automatically reset itself to 6dB gain when docked in USB model. *I do remember you can set it manually back to zero gain*, but 6dB gain should be safe to use as well, without clipping the input (and thus no distortion). This only affects the LO Bypass mode too. Since in LO mode, it will be at zero gain regardless of gain setting.


 
   
  Do you mean to say there is a way to have the E17 default to a gain 0dB when docked? Or do you mean I will just have to go into the settings menu all the time when powering on the E09K+E17 if I want to set the gain back to 0dB.


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## ClieOS

Quote: 





peternguyen said:


> Do you mean to say there is a way to have the E17 default to a gain 0dB when docked? Or do you mean I will just have to go into the settings menu all the time when powering on the E09K+E17 if I want to set the gain back to 0dB.


 
   
  Yes, manually set it back to zero gain. Well, at least on the older firmware, you can press the input button to go from USB around to other input, adjust the gain and back to USB, and the gain will stay at what you have adjusted. However, it is easier just to stick to 6dB if you can't hear any issue.


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## Rango

How good is Leckerton Audio UHA 6s compare to E17 ?


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## kevinpwhite

I've also encountered this 'feature'...  it does seem to be a firmware default setting. OK when undocked but reverts each time placed into the E09K.
  Maybe FiiO will be able to provide an option of choice in a future firmware update ?
  I know there is at least one person from FiiO who's commented on the forum so hopefully will spot and may be able to feed back ?
   
  Regards,
   
  Kevin


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## peternguyen

I don't know if it's just me, but I find the sound is a bit nicer without any gain.
   
  I would have thought that one of the benefits of having more power from the E09K is to not require any gain. Regardless, to have to change a setting each time when turning on a device is not user friendly.


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## Rango

rango said:


> How good is Leckerton Audio UHA 6s and objective O2 compare to E17 ?



CileOS comments please


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## ClieOS

Quote: 





rango said:


> CileOS comments please


 
   
  Never have a UHA-6 before so I am not going to comment much on it. As for O2 vs. E17 - please check out the link in my signature.


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## peternguyen

I was searching through the forums and came across the below comment from this post that James from FiiO made regarding the firmware:
    
  Quote:


jamesfiio said:


> ...The second change is the new firmware make the E17 can adjust the gain while docking into E09K...


 
   
  James, hopefully you will see my question. Do you mean to say that the newer firmware prevents the gain from defaulting back to 6dB when docked? I suppose there wouldn't be a way to upgrade my firmware would there? I've checked and I have the older firmware.


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## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





peternguyen said:


> I was searching through the forums and came across the below comment from this post that James from FiiO made regarding the firmware:
> 
> James, hopefully you will see my question. Do you mean to say that the newer firmware prevents the gain from defaulting back to 6dB when docked? I suppose there wouldn't be a way to upgrade my firmware would there? I've checked and I have the older firmware.


 
   
  sorry, our user can't upgraded the firmware because it need a special kits.


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## peternguyen

Thanks for the clarification James. Could you also confirm the other question I had as well?
   
  Quote: 





peternguyen said:


> ...Do you mean to say that the newer firmware prevents the gain from defaulting back to 6dB when docked?...


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## Thoft208

Just got the fiio E17 Thinking it had a line out switch, the Lo- bypass. Thinking it would be useful for the stereo at home since that amps a 1970s. Is the lo-bypass a line out signal or no?


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