# Feliks Audio tube amps



## UntilThen (Jul 11, 2017)

This is a thread for owners of Feliks Audio headphone tube amps to give their impressions, discuss tubes, share their head-fi gear around which their Euforia, Elise and Expressivo revolves.

It is a place where like minded folks are encouraged to participate and share their passion in this most satisfying head-fi hobby.

This will be a fresh start. It has no links to previous Feliks Audio threads even though you will find heaps of my posts there.

The only link you will find is the Feliks Audio website - http://feliksaudio.pl/

So without further ado, welcome !

Some useful links for your reading in case you can't sleep....

http://www.soundperfectionreviews.com/2016/09/review-feliks-audio-elise-otl-valve-amp.html

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/feliks-audio-euforia-a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing.831743/

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/feliks-audio-elise-impressions-thread-–-a-new-start-please-read-first-post-for-summary.813488/

https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/espressivo-e-by-feliks-audio.16731/reviews#review-16456

http://pmrreviews.com/?p=1013

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/feliks-audio-elise-previously-6sn7-6as7g-6080-prototype.732875/

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread.782754/

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/feliks-audio-elise-tube-rolling-guide-6sn7-6as7g-6080-5998.765460/

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/f...udget-otl-tube-amp-from-poland-thread.850052/

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/6sn7-tube-addicts.479031/

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/the-reference-6sn7-thread.117677/

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here.410326/


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## UntilThen

This is Elise. This amp arrived on the 27th Oct 2015. I had almost 1.5 years of audio bliss with it. It only cost me $649 back then. It has since been renewed. Everything has been changed except for the transformer and chassis. It has been upgraded to 2017 Elise specs. I have since sold it to Ross because I also have Euforia.

Here I am running a strange tube combination. One Raytheon 6sn7gt vt231 black glass and RCA 6sn7gtb with a pair of GEC 6as7g power tubes. 

Sounds really good though.


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## UntilThen

This is Euforia. It's almost identical to Elise... almost. I'll post pictures later of them side by side, so you can see the subtle difference.

I got Euforia sometime in late March 2017. Can't remember the date now.

Here, Euforia is shod with some of my best tubes. Sylvania 6sn7wgt and Gec 6as7g. Euforia sounded simply gorgeous. I'll be giving impressions of Elise and Euforia in subsequent postings.


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## UntilThen

This is Expressivo. It is rather large and mythical ..... but you should hear it. It's jaw droppingly good. I don't have it yet.


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## canthearyou

UntilThen said:


> This is Expressivo. It is rather large and mythical ..... but you should hear it. It's jaw droppingly good. I don't have it yet.



I believe you have the wrong photo uploaded.


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## angpsi

@canthearyou, i believe you're right. It's most probably this one:


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## angpsi

That, or, UT's just messing with his newfound audience...


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## UntilThen (Jul 11, 2017)

canthearyou said:


> I believe you have the wrong photo uploaded.



You have a sharp eye. 

I don't have an Expressivo so I am waiting for someone who has, to come along and post it.


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## UntilThen

These are my latest tubes - Chatham 6080wb solid graphite plates. Bought from none other then @oshipao .

I love the tone of these tubes. Strong bass, muscular and he-man. These tubes work out in the gym and it shows.


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## UntilThen

This is what I use on a daily basis. Photo taken when I first brought Yggdrasil and HD800 home. Euforia sits proudly with them. She has Sylvania 6sn7w and Bendix 6080wb slotted graphite plates. The sound from this system is a knockout.... literally.


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## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> It's most probably this one:



Psst... what amp is that Angie?


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## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> These are my latest tubes - Chatham 6080wb solid graphite plates. Bought from none other then @oshipao .
> 
> I love the tone of these tubes. Strong bass, muscular and he-man. These tubes work out in the gym and it shows.


I'm gonna need me a pair of these as well


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## Oskari

UT, why no links to all the earlier Feliks threads in the first post? I think it would be a good idea.

P.S. It's E*s*pressivo.


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## UntilThen (Jul 11, 2017)

Rossliew said:


> I'm gonna need me a pair of these as well



I can sell it to you after I buy it from Oshipao.... at a premium of course. I would have tested it.


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## UntilThen

Oskari said:


> UT, why no links to all the earlier Feliks threads in the first post? I think it would be a good idea.
> 
> P.S. It's E*s*pressivo.



Good idea about the links.

You sure it's Espressivo? I was thinking....


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## UntilThen

I took these 2 amps to the Sydney 2017 meet. They are the cause of my many sleepless nights. So beware....

I kind of miss that HE500's fat bass.


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## Oscar-HiFi

Being mean about the Espressivo, I love mine:

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/f...udget-otl-tube-amp-from-poland-thread.850052/


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## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> Psst... what amp is that Angie?


It's a Kondo Kagura. Inspired from the recent outline of the free trade agreement between the EU and Japan. Very compatible with your current inventory of tubes. Are you at all enticed?


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## UntilThen

Oscar-HiFi said:


> Being mean about the Espressivo, I love mine:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/f...udget-otl-tube-amp-from-poland-thread.850052/




Wow so nice. I thought you were Oskari.... 

Nice of you to chime in. Now how about a one page review...


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## angpsi

Oscar-HiFi said:


> Being mean about the Espressivo, I love mine:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/f...udget-otl-tube-amp-from-poland-thread.850052/


All in good spirit. After all, I was originally considering to buy this when I came across the crazy Elise crowd in here. _They_ got the best of me. I'm sure that if Euforia was alive at the time, they would have persuaded me to get that instead! I'm sure it's a great amp, all those who have it or reviewed it are very excited. People can get it second–hand for a really good price as well!


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## Oscar-HiFi

UntilThen said:


> Wow so nice. I thought you were Oskari....
> 
> Nice of you to chime in. Now how about a one page review...



Why not a link to the full review: https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/espressivo-e-by-feliks-audio.16731/reviews#review-16456

It's a great amp, that for the price is excellent value.

You are more limited with tube rolling than the more expensive Elise, but it really changes a lot with different tubes. The stock are quite neutral and well balanced, Teslas bring out more warmth, and the iFi 5670 are my favourite bringing out more detail over the stock tubes, but the adaptors needed a little modding.

I feel the Espressivo is overlooked on Head-Fi and everyone jumps on the Little Dot train which is a shame.

I even opened up my Espressivo recently and it is very well made, not a single issue since I've had it.

It cannot drive harder to driver planars like the HE-500 and HE-6 (clips in the upper volume ranges), but does well with dynamics (very well with the T1).


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## UntilThen

Oscar-HiFi said:


> Why not a link to the full review: https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/espressivo-e-by-feliks-audio.16731/reviews#review-16456
> 
> It's a great amp, that for the price is excellent value.



Linkedin   Prospective employers will be contacting you soon.... 

Sure looks like a great amp. I even think it's the best looking of the 3 Feliks Audio headphone amps. Wanted to buy one at one time but I'm drowned with tube amps now, Besides I have a fetish with ss amps now - gasp !!!


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## Oscar-HiFi

UntilThen said:


> Linkedin   Prospective employers will be contacting you soon....
> 
> Sure looks like a great amp. I even think it's the best looking of the 3 Feliks Audio headphone amps. Wanted to buy one at one time but I'm drowned with tube amps now, Besides I have a fetish with ss amps now - gasp !!!



 I'm very happy in my current job (only been here a couple of months so far)

My Espressivo isn't going anywhere any time soon


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## UntilThen

Only 2 hours since launch and already on page 2..... 

Thanks everyone for contributing and I wish Feliks Audio great success in Can Jam London 2017.


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## UntilThen

Oscar-HiFi said:


> I'm very happy in my current job (only been here a couple of months so far)
> 
> My Espressivo isn't going anywhere any time soon



I'm confused. Are you Stewart or someone else?


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## Oscar-HiFi

UntilThen said:


> I'm confused. Are you Stewart or someone else?



I run an independent review website outside of work, which is a lot older than my current job (username ostewart).


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## UntilThen

This is what I mean by drowning in tube amps... and La Figaro 339 is not even in the picture.

 

It is now...


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## UntilThen

Oscar-HiFi said:


> I run an independent review website outside of work, which is a lot older than my current job (username ostewart).



Ah.... gotcha. We've been talking since we were childhood friends. Kidding... 

But we did talk a lot ... and then you disappeared.


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## Oscar-HiFi

UntilThen said:


> Ah.... gotcha. We've been talking since we were childhood friends. Kidding...
> 
> But we did talk a lot ... and then you disappeared.



I'm still around a lot 

This account during the week, 9-5, then my other one from home when I have time 

Confusing, but I like to keep things separate as to make sure there is no conflict of interest


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## UntilThen

Oscar-HiFi said:


> I'm still around a lot
> 
> This account during the week, 9-5, then my other one from home when I have time
> 
> Confusing, but I like to keep things separate as to make sure there is no conflict of interest



Ah ha. Now I know why I am confused. I only know your other signed on ostewart. When I saw this Oscar-HiFi, I thought it was @Oskari......


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## UntilThen (Jul 11, 2017)

Now I need to tease TheOneNoob.... did he change his sign on? Where are you TON ???

ah ha it's @thatonenoob


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## UntilThen

Oscar-HiFi said:


> It cannot drive harder to driver planars like the HE-500 and HE-6



Hehehe that's why I ordered the Ragnarok. I think it will drive the HE-6..... now to find one 2nd hand and in good condition....


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## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> Good idea about the links.


You could consider these as well.

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/feliks-audio-elise-previously-6sn7-6as7g-6080-prototype.732875/

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread.782754/

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/feliks-audio-elise-tube-rolling-guide-6sn7-6as7g-6080-5998.765460/

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/f...udget-otl-tube-amp-from-poland-thread.850052/

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/6sn7-tube-addicts.479031/

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/the-reference-6sn7-thread.117677/

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here.410326/



UntilThen said:


> You sure it's Espressivo? I was thinking....


Yes, it's Italian.


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## angpsi

Oskari said:


> You could consider these as well.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/feliks-audio-elise-previously-6sn7-6as7g-6080-prototype.732875/
> 
> ...


That's quite a legacy right there!


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## angpsi

I also propose you link specifically to pct's fist post on the subject of tube rolling for the Elise.


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## angpsi

Plus a disclaimer about using non-sanctioned tubes on the FA amps! I mean, this _is _consolidated knowledge, isn't it?


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## oshipao (Jul 11, 2017)

Abbey Road on a tuesday.


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## oshipao

Latest but not the last 



UntilThen said:


> These are my latest tubes - Chatham 6080wb solid graphite plates. Bought from none other then @oshipao .
> 
> I love the tone of these tubes. Strong bass, muscular and he-man. These tubes work out in the gym and it shows.


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## UntilThen

oshipao said:


> Abbey Road on a tuesday.



I love your photo, Oshipao. In short, I love turntable and the sound that only vinyl can create, disregarding whether it's good or bad recordings. It is ironic that digital is trying to emulate vinyl, with all it's flaws. It is the organic sound that we all love.

Anyway, great photo. Very simple, very clean.


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## ostewart

Espressivo with gold grid 6N6P-I power tubes, and iFi Audio GE JAN 5670 tubes in their 6922 adaptors:


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## oshipao

Thanks UT,

I am very happy with how it sounds. And I like the ritual of putting on a vinyl and sit back and enjoy the whole album, as it (it was at least) was meant to be. My iPad does however have one of the crappiest cameras  



UntilThen said:


> I love your photo, Oshipao. In short, I love turntable and the sound that only vinyl can create, disregarding whether it's good or bad recordings. It is ironic that digital is trying to emulate vinyl, with all it's flaws. It is the organic sound that we all love.
> 
> Anyway, great photo. Very simple, very clean.


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## UntilThen

Thanks Oskari for digging up those links. They would be most helpful for reference to Feliks Audio amps and tube rolling in Elise and Euforia. I have participated in everyone of them. I was right there in the first thread when it was closed and locked when the moderators step in. Maybe osteward can provide Expressivo's tube rolling. 

Sorry @angpsi  I won't set any guidelines here. The only guidelines are set by Feliks Audio in their website. They did specify the recommended tubes, didn't they? It's common sense. If others wish to show their creation here, I wouldn't police it. No disclaimer necessary. I think anyone can read and decide for themselves.


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## UntilThen

ostewart said:


> Espressivo with gold grid 6N6P-I power tubes, and iFi Audio GE JAN 5670 tubes in their 6922 adaptors:



Now we are talking. 

Bravo Steward. This was our missing link. Some tube rolling for Expressivo. It's like making the perfect coffee.


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## UntilThen

oshipao said:


> I am very happy with how it sounds. And I like the ritual of putting on a vinyl and sit back and enjoy the whole album, as it (it was at least) was meant to be. My iPad does however have one of the crappiest cameras



I couldn't agree more with what you say but I won't disrespect your iPad camera. 

Yes that ritual of prepping the vinyl before play is half the fun. Others will view it as a chore. Funny isn't it?


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## ostewart

UntilThen said:


> Now we are talking.
> 
> Bravo Steward. This was our missing link. Some tube rolling for Expressivo. It's like making the perfect coffee.



I have not personally tested these as I am poor, but I have some info on tubes that fit the Espressivo with adaptors:

EL3N's and C3g's as power tubes
6SN7 as driver tubes


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## UntilThen

ostewart said:


> I have not personally tested these as I am poor, but I have some info on tubes that fit the Espressivo with adaptors:
> 
> EL3N's and C3g's as power tubes
> 6SN7 as driver tubes



Yup those are wonder tubes.

@HOWIE13  will have a lot to contribute on Expressivo when he gets back from his round the world trip. I think he has roll just about any tubes in Expressivo.


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## Oskari

x -> s


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## UntilThen

Oskari said:


> You could consider these as well.



Done ! All Linkedin ! Including your avatar.


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## UntilThen

oshipao said:


> Latest but not the last



There comes a time where I must buy other stuff besides just tubes. 

Like a new cartridge or phono preamp or even a better turntable. 

Or a new balanced xlr cable for my hd800 lol.


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## UntilThen

I met a friend at work today. he is obviously a music fanatic. He told me he has 3000 CDs... I have only 300. He also told me he has 2000 LPs..... I have only 57 LPs.

Fortunately I have access to everything on Tidal.


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## UntilThen

I need to move back to this setup. It gives me all the source options of listening to music with Euforia. Here I have turntable, CD player and PC.

It's not the best but it's mine.


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## oshipao

Definitely. Decks, phono stages, cartridges etc. compared to tubes are going to give you equal or even more change to the music you listen to. It is easy to get stuck in the snowball ride when focused on tubes. I think I would be completely satisfactory with stock imho. Enjoy the music and enjoy your equipment... and your tubes. In that particular order 



UntilThen said:


> There comes a time where I must buy other stuff besides just tubes.
> 
> Like a new cartridge or phono preamp or even a better turntable.
> 
> Or a new balanced xlr cable for my hd800 lol.


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## oshipao

I like it. Only reel to reel and casette deck that's missing 



UntilThen said:


> I need to move back to this setup. It gives me all the source options of listening to music with Euforia. Here I have turntable, CD player and PC.
> 
> It's not the best but it's mine.


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## UntilThen (Jul 11, 2017)

oshipao said:


> I like it. Only reel to reel and casette deck that's missing



In this day and age, most would have just gone full digital. We are now in the digital age. Yet somehow some old format just keep coming back. Like vinyl and tube amps. All the advancements in digital and transistors could not keep the analogue and tube medium away.

It's not just nostalgia. I actually prefer the sound of vinyl and tubes. I think half of Head-Fi here would agree with me.

Is it any wonder then that digital DACs are trying to sound like vinyl.

Did you hear of vinyl trying to sound like digital?


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## UntilThen (Jul 11, 2017)

I will be re-writing a detailed impressions of all the mainstream 6as7 / 6080 power tubes used in Elise and Euforia. As far as tubes goes, it will be the same for Elise and Euforia. I see no differentiation there.

Meanwhile I will be posting a combination a day of my favourite tubes used in Elise and Euforia.

This combination of 7N7 and Tung Sol 5998 was my introduction of Elise to the Sydney 2016 meet. I chose that over the EL3N as felt this combination to have a purer, more dynamic sound. The crystal clear sound of 7N7 in combination with the lively and energetic sound of 5998 is the ticket to audio bliss. This will please any listener regardless of your preference.

Picture taken at the 2016 Sydney meet with Elise. Then I was listening with Beyer T1. Great great tone.


Picture taken a few minutes ago on Euforia. Now I am listening with HD800. An even greater tone... to my ears. 


Ps... 7N7 sounds very similar to Sylvania 6sn7gtb chrome top. It's not a surprise as most 7N7 were manufactured by Sylvania.


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## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> Plus a disclaimer about using non-sanctioned tubes on the FA amps! I mean, this _is _consolidated knowledge, isn't it?



The irony is that I post the most pictures and impressions on non-sanctioned tubes on the FA amps. It's all in the past now for me. I'm strictly on 6sn7 and 6as7. It was fun to experiment with c3g, 6n7g, ecc31, fdd20, 6a6, el3n, el11, el12, el12n but I realised that I should abide by the manufacturer's recommendation. So it's back to plain Jane but let me tell you Jane isn't plain. She's gorgeous !!! 

Anyone want to dispute that Jane isn't plain?


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## UntilThen

Another favourite pairing here - Sylvania 6sn7w and Bendix 6080wb slotted graphite tubes. Really good tubes and great combination. 6sn7w is so clear and sweet sounding and Bendix 6080wb has the weight of an ocean liner giant anchor. Together it's making my HD800 sound musical. Not a trace of sharpness here. It's smooth, lush and the soundstage is staggering. Bass is one of the best this side of the equator.

Btw when I refer to soundstage, I really mean headstage. It's inside your head or extends beyond your ears. Soundstage belongs to speakers and I am just about to take my setup to the lounge to audition with my speakers and subwoofer. Let's hear some real soundstage in my 5 x 8 metres lounge.


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## mordy

The Ragnarok is an integrated amp with a power amp and preamp together. It does not have a built in DAC. Why can't I find a unit with all three in one?
Yggyrag. It stands to reason that such a unit would be less expensive than separates. 

It seems to me that you don't need a preamp to listen through headphones using Ragnarok. Well, I want to know if it sounds better than the Euforia....

And here is one of the most beautiful ragtime compositions (RAGnarok) of all time - Solace by Scott Joplin.
A most beautiful haunting melody.....



More like a classical piece with syncopation.

Popularized by the movie Sting (but only part of the song):


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## UntilThen (Jul 12, 2017)

All in good time Mordy. Ragnarok will come and I will pair it with Yggdrasil to drive both my speakers and headphones.

However for now - this is the first time I'm using Yggy in my stereo system. OOOOOOOOOOOOOO MMMMMMMMMMMMM GGGGGGGGGGGGGGG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

So the setup is as follows:-

Onkyo DVD player > Yggdrasil > Euforia (as preamp) > Sherwood receiver > Axis LS28 stand mounted speakers. No subwoofer yet.

Playing Norah Jones......

This is music. Full stop. I'm over the moon. My stereo now has great clarity, bite, beat, boom, crash, soundstage, you name it. I can pin point where Norah is standing and the piano chords - they dance with intensity. Next I will play Pink Floyd and Dire Straits and Eagles and John Mayer and Diana Krall and....

I will now have to arrange my components properly so I don't have to put Onkyo and Yggy on the piano stool. I will borrow @angpsi  Krell CD player for some credence instead of my Onkyo DVD made in Japan player. This is actually a very solid transport bought back in 1999. Still like new. Under utilised.

Next I will connect my re-cone Axis LS88 floor stander and then I will switch in the Definitive Technology 12" subwoofer.

Gosh I'm indeed aiming for Yggy > Rggy > KEF LS50  eventually.


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## UntilThen (Jul 12, 2017)

mordy said:


> It seems to me that you don't need a preamp to listen through headphones using Ragnarok. Well, I want to know if it sounds better than the Euforia....



Of course you can use Yggy and Rggy to headphone or speakers direct. I will however also try using Euforia as preamp into Rggy, to dial in some tube tones. 

But you will get my impressions of Ragnarok vs Euforia. However it's like comparing apples to oranges. Do you like apple or orange? Or a combination of both? 

Should I give you a durian instead?

This is a durian and it's my favourite fruit. It's called the King of fruits.

Drool.


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## UntilThen

The Wall by Pink Floyd now with subwoofer on.

It is a moving experience. !!!!


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## UntilThen (Jul 12, 2017)

Place the speakers closer together and toe in. Oh man, this sounds so good now. Will I even want to go back to HD800?

I have never heard my speakers sound so clear and impactful, with an astonishing tight powerful bass. Now this is soundstage and precise instruments separation. Yggy sounds even better with speakers !!!

Pink Floyd rocks now.


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## UntilThen

I really think that using Euforia as preamp improves the sound ten fold.

It dials in the tube amp tone that I so love.

Try Euforia as preamp folks. Elise too.

Hmmm maybe I shouldn't have sold off Elise ....


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## UntilThen (Jul 12, 2017)

Speakers experience so much more fun and involving.

This hobby has just started....


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## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> Speakers experience so much more fun and involving.
> 
> This hobby has just started....


I see Vidar in your future! Btw, did you catch that there's a good deal on Amazon Prime days for the LS50?


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## angpsi

Although, in the world of speakers there's an ocean of possibilities...


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## UntilThen

Angie, my Axis LS28 is singing like a world class performer now.

All you need is Euforia and Yggdrasil in the equation. When Ragnarok comes, my lounge will explode with brilliance.

I shudder to think what I have got myself into. Next I would want a B&W 802 and some crazy amplification.


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## UntilThen

Most reviewers says that the Yggdrasil Ragnarok and KEF LS50 is a great pairing without costing the earth.


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## UntilThen

The sound from the speakers now is amazing. So so clear now. You hear every beat. It is musically involving now.

Angie, sell the bicycle and buy Yggdrasil.


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## UntilThen

Angie your ATC SCM20sl needs Yggy. 

Those are very good speakers.


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## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> Angie your ATC SCM20sl needs Yggy.
> 
> Those are very good speakers.


I know. Only most people don't! 

Problem is that if I get Yggy I won't have anything else to use at the office with the Elise! In all honesty - and in view of my imaginary spending - I was really troubled by this perspective! I believe that having to buy two Yggies is an overkill!


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## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> I know. Only most people don't!
> 
> Problem is that if I get Yggy I won't have anything else to use at the office with the Elise! In all honesty - and in view of my imaginary spending - I was really troubled by this perspective! I believe that having to buy two Yggies is an overkill!



No you buy Yggy and the new Audio Gd r2r. That will work. 

The Audio Gd r2r looks promising.

However whirlwind is in ecstacy now with his Holo Spring Level 3.


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## angpsi

Replicating my other post as it's pertinent to the content of this thread. Plus I'm saving UT from diverting his attention.

My favorite combos so far with the Elise / Sennheiser HD600:

GEC 6080 / Sylvania 6sn7w baffles me. It's the most significant audition and the best I've ever heard coming from Elise. Weighty, analytical, renders everything with authority. They make the HD600 sing like ATC SCM20sl. Anyone who's heard what I'm talking about knows this is a significant achievement. Or else, just read the reviews.
Mullard 6080 / Sylvania 6sn7wgt. _Very_gutsy sound and a distinct sound signature. I fare it below the first combo but it's really good. Obviously I can mix and match to obtain characteristics closer to my reference signature by substituting any part of this combo but this is a dish of its own. Lovely upon different circumstances.
Tung-Sol 5998 / Tung-Sol 6sn7. My smokey jazz set. _Extremely_ enjoyable at that. Truth be told, I haven't experimented a lot with these so they could be worth a lot more. However I don't see them adding to my reference signature.
Cheers!


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## UntilThen

Btw the KEF LS50 is based on the legendary LS3/5A.


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## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> No you buy Yggy and the new Audio Gd r2r. That will work.
> 
> The Audio Gd r2r looks promising.
> 
> However whirlwind is in ecstacy now with his Holo Spring Level 3.


The relevant thread mentions a dutch review comparing the two. I read it and it appears that the Audio GD gets the Holo Audio on oversampling, while the Holo Audio wins on NOS mode.


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## UntilThen

Tubes do affect your system sound by quite a bit but it is no where compared to a capable source, be it turntable or dac.

Next amplification.

Then speakers or headphones.


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## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> Btw the KEF LS50 is based on the legendary LS3/5A.


I know. Although I think it's much less inefficient than the LS3/5A. If you wanted full replica you can go with Rogers, Spendor, and last but not least Harbeth. I once stood before the KEF and asked about them, but the salesman said that if I have the SCM20sl  these wouldn't really give me more / different. But they're well acclaimed speakers, so they must be doing something right, right?


----------



## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> Tubes do affect your system sound by quite a bit but it is no where compared to a capable source, be it turntable or dac.
> 
> Next amplification.
> 
> Then speakers or headphones.


Actually I'd argue that you start with the speakers / headphones and then you build up the chain. I think they're the most significant constant in the chain. But perhaps a Hawaiian friend here might disagree?


----------



## angpsi

UT, have you considered experimenting with Mini Maggie? I believe it would do the Yggy / Ragnarok system more justice than the LS50. Of course the price bracket is different to the LS50 but the size / performance is comparable.


----------



## UntilThen

Nope not with headphones. Speakers maybe. Since when is anyone happy with just one and only one headphone?

With speakers you don't have a choice. It is too expensive to buy 2 pairs of good speakers unless your brother is Bill Gates.

You can start anywhere in the chain really. Source, amplification or transducers. Best if you buy them all together. That way you pick the most matching components.


----------



## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> UT, have you considered experimenting with Mini Maggie? I believe it would do the Yggy / Ragnarok system more justice than the LS50. Of course the price bracket is different to the LS50 but the size / performance is comparable.



Angie I am not even thinking of the LS50 now. I still have my legendary Axis LS28 and 88. Google it. 

Maggie?  Let me google....


----------



## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> Nope not with headphones. Speakers maybe. Since when is anyone happy with just one and only one headphone?
> 
> With speakers you don't have a choice. It is too expensive to buy 2 pairs of good speakers unless your brother is Bill Gates.
> 
> You can start anywhere in the chain really. Source, amplification or transducers. Best if you buy them all together. That way you pick the most matching components.


My story goes like: started off with speakers, gradually fed them with better sources, ended up upgrading my speakers!
But that's just what ATC does to you. All of their speakers are that good!


----------



## angpsi (Jul 12, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> Angie I am not even thinking of the LS50 now. I still have my legendary Axis LS28 and 88. Google it.
> 
> Maggie?  Let me google....


Will Google. Got my attention from your original post. But I have to get some work done eventually. In fact, I haven't even started my day yet! I'm just standing in front of the shower chatting off my cellphone!

Ah, the lazy days of summer.,,


----------



## angpsi

Vintage Aussie design! Cool! I like it.
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/13910-axis-floor-standers/


----------



## UntilThen

I first heard of Axis LS88 when I was still in Singapore. They were about $2500 Singapore dollars at that time. Very beautiful floor standers and 4 ohms.

It was only in 1999 when I was firmly settled in Australia that I bought the LS88 and 3 LS28 as my Home Theatre speakers.

I bought HiFi speakers for my Home Theatre so I can listen to music too. 

I still think they sound gorgeous.

Btw the mini Maggie is very well reviewed here in Head-Fi. Comparison were made to Stax SR009 and HD800 with the Maggies.


----------



## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> Will Google. Got my attention from your original post. But I have to get some work done eventually. In fact, I haven't even started my day yet! I'm just standing in front of the shower chatting off my cellphone!
> 
> Ah, the lazy days of summer.,,



Get into the shower and stop chatting !!!


----------



## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> Btw the mini Maggie is very well reviewed here in Head-Fi. Comparison were made to Stax SR009 and HD800 with the Maggies.


 See? Now go find some proper reviews, it will entice you even more! I've been smitten a long time ago, just couldn't afford them...

PS. Showered. Now brushing my teeth!


----------



## UntilThen

This has a passing mention of the Axis LS88...

John Reily - the Australian speaker designer. Even now the Voice Box S is supposedly very good.

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/axis/1.html


----------



## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> See? Now go find some proper reviews, it will entice you even more! I've been smitten a long time ago, just couldn't afford them...
> 
> PS. Showered. Now brushing my teeth!




I hate to be smitten with HiFi stereo system ... it's going to cost a lot.... including sound proofing your room.... so I will be content with my Axis or a KEF LS50.


----------



## UntilThen

Talking about your lazy days of summer, this is my cold gloomy days of winter now.


----------



## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> Talking about your lazy days of summer, this is my cold gloomy days of winter now.


I'll take your cold gloomy days anytime. This is what my summer in the city looks like. Plus 40°C (104°F).


----------



## Oskari

Here's "Forest after rain". +17°C.


----------



## UntilThen

Winter's activity for Finn.


----------



## UntilThen

Angelo, describing 5998 and 6as7 sound as reverberating..... that would be the death of me.


----------



## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> Angelo, describing 5998 and 6as7 sound as reverberating..... that would be the death of me.


Is it not the right term?They do something like a sight echo effect to my ears, add more volume (i.e three-dimensionality) to the sound.


----------



## UntilThen

I mean if you prefer a leaner and more clinical tone from 6080, that's ok.

6as7 just sound more layered and textured.

5998 does not really sound like your typical 6as7. Some even say it sounded like solid state amp which I disagree.


----------



## angpsi

Oskari said:


> Here's "Forest after rain". +17°C.


I remember a conference in Espoo (Aalto School of Architecture) in October 2012. The landscape was almost magical! i swear I could feel the presence of sprites; or gnomes; or whatever these creatures are!


----------



## UntilThen

Echo generally connotes a bad sound effect. 

I dont think any of us wants echo in our sound system.


----------



## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> I mean if you prefer a leaner and more clinical tone from 6080, that's ok.
> 
> 6as7 just sound more layered and textured.
> 
> 5998 does not really sound like your typical 6as7. Some even say it sounded like solid state amp which I disagree.


I can't disagree, if anything because I don't have any other 6as7g to compare with besides the stock Svetlana 6N13S. Don't get me wrong, I felt that the 5998 render a more 'beautified' tone with authority, which is really quite appealing to my ears. Just not the monitor stuff I got from the GEC. Now if the A1836 can do 'beautiful' with 'monitor', then I completely understand what all the ravings about them are about!


----------



## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> Some even say it sounded like solid state amp which I disagree.



And yes, I definitely agree this is not solid state. Not by a mile. Well, maybe compared to other 6as7g; and maybe if the ss amp is a Quad.


----------



## UntilThen

GEC 6080 has a lighter tone than both Bendix 6080wb and Gec 6as7g.

GEC 6080 is more airy and lighter in tone. Mullard 6080 has a brighter more energetic tone than GEC 6080.

Gec 6as7g has a warmer, lusher tone than GEC 6080 but not overly so. Chatham 6as7g is definitely lighter tone than Gec 6as7g.

I find that the Gec 6as7g synergise very well with HD800.. even RCA 6as7g does but the GEC is very smooth and refined. It also has a great bass punch. Very nice presentation.


----------



## Oskari

angpsi said:


> I remember a conference in Espoo (Aalto School of Architecture) in October 2012. The landscape was almost magical! i swear I could feel the presence of sprites; or gnomes; or whatever these creatures are!


Mosquitoes.


----------



## UntilThen

Now if you get a tube that sounds like mosquitoes buzzing, you know its bad. Just smack it.


----------



## UntilThen

I am still listening to my speaker system. It's night now so volume is only moderately loud but Pink Floyd sounds so clear, I can hear every note.

Also confirm that I much prefer it with Euforia as preamp than without.


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 12, 2017)

angpsi said:


> I see Vidar in your future! Btw, did you catch that there's a good deal on Amazon Prime days for the LS50?



2 Vidars would be perfect to drive my Axis LS88.

I will read up more on Schiit Vidar mono power amps.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Place the speakers closer together and toe in. Oh man, this sounds so good now. Will I even want to go back to HD800?
> 
> I have never heard my speakers sound so clear and impactful, with an astonishing tight powerful bass. Now this is soundstage and precise instruments separation. Yggy sounds even better with speakers !!!
> 
> Pink Floyd rocks now.




Very, very nice.  There is no reason for you to waste anymore money on headphones  

Get the speakers you want and live happily ever after, no headphone will sound as good.

This is where the Rag or a Glenn 300B amp will really shine, when paired with some nice speakers


----------



## UntilThen

It's past 10pm and I am still listening to the Best of Kitaro on my speakers setup.

Yggy is the best thing to happen to my music. Simply wonderful sounding. Bass has that hard impact. On speakers it is more evident. Really good soundstage too. The music is haunting at moderate volume level.

Whirlwind, you are right. I don't how I will return to headphones again. That's astonishing considering I have just bought my HD800 and I love it a lot.


----------



## angpsi

I believe two Vidars would be powerful enough to drive anything! About the sound though, I believe we have to wait. This is definitely big boys territory now and the competition is well seasoned. Yggy did its magic though with Stereophile and TAS, didn't it?


----------



## UntilThen

If you know that Jason Stoddard was Vice-President of Engineering Sumo at age 25 and lecturing at Harvard on virtual marketing, the great products churned out at Schiit shouldn't surprise you.

I haven't taken notice of him and Mike Moffat before but collectively, they have a ton of expertise and experience to do high end. The fact that they choose to do so and make their products affordable is a big gain for consumers.

Yes Vidar will probably outdo products costing much more. Do I need Vidar?

No. I only need Ragnarok.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> This is where the Rag or a Glenn 300B amp will really shine, when paired with some nice speakers



Glenn 300B amp would definitely be very nice too. I can't afford that now though. 

A few years later. On my wish list...


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Glenn 300B amp would definitely be very nice too. I can't afford that now though.
> 
> A few years later. On my wish list...




You really need nothing more than a nice vintage receiver,  which you already have...the sound is gonna trump any headphone sound regardless.

IMHO, the only reason to listen to headphones is because one has too.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> You really need nothing more than a nice vintage receiver,  which you already have...the sound is gonna trump any headphone sound regardless.
> 
> IMHO, the only reason to listen to headphones is because one has too.



Yup that would be me because I get up at 1am to listen to music and I need headphones at that hour or the police will knock on my door. 

Stereo will be for weekends and earlier in the night. 

Dammmmm..... I forgot about State of Origin tonight. Its our famous rugby match.


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 12, 2017)

I would never have thought that I would be using Euforia mainly as a preamp but looks like I am heading that way.

Listening to Marina Prior on speakers at 6am. What a way to start the day. As stated before, with Euforia and Yggdrasil in the equation, my speakers are singing so sweetly and clearly even at low volume.

I don't need an LCD 2.2 or 3 anymore. I need to focus on my stereo now. 

Tubes in Euforia are still Sylvania 6sn7w and Bendix 6080wb.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,

Re the Durian fruit, they are supposed to taste absolutely delicious, but they have such an offensive smell that they are banned in many restaurants and, apparently, in the Singapore public transit system:





Angpsi,

The creatures you wondered about are called trolls (not mosquitos):

Only speakers now and no headphones:

Massdrop has now extended the HD650 run another 10,000 units; so far 13,400 orders. Why can't they drop the price under $200?

Want a pair of 5998 tubes? 43 minutes left for a pair - bidding up to around $104

 :






























































*Have one to sell?*  Sell now
*Details about  2 Vintage NOS 50's Tung-Sol Chatham 2399 5998 421A 6080 Domino Matched Tube Pair*


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy, I have move from my study to my lounge now.

It's party time and let the tsunami begin.

And nobody bid on that Chatham 2399 because it's mine.


----------



## UntilThen

Can't wait to get home to listen to music again.

That's my subwoofer at the far left. It fills in the low end for the Axis LS28 really well.


----------



## Lord Raven

Great start, I might be late to the party, was busy in my studies 

I talked to Lukasz to upgrade my Elise but he said it will cost more and it will be better to go with Euforia instead. And he also mentioned that other Elise owners reached him to upgrade the Elise to Euforia specs, looks like I was not alone.

I am also going to sell Elise to afford Euforia, Euforia is definitely a step up in all departments. I have been catching up on the last thread and now another thread with 8 pages to read, back to reading.

PS If anyone is interested in Elise, hit me a PM 



UntilThen said:


> This is Elise. This amp arrived on the 27th Oct 2015. I had almost 1.5 years of audio bliss with it. It only cost me $649 back then. It has since been renewed. Everything has been changed except for the transformer and chassis. It has been upgraded to 2017 Elise specs. I have since sold it to Ross because I also have Euforia.
> 
> Here I am running a strange tube combination. One Raytheon 6sn7gt vt231 black glass and RCA 6sn7gtb with a pair of GEC 6as7g power tubes.
> 
> Sounds really good though.


----------



## UntilThen

You can't upgrade Elise fully to Euforia because the latter power transformer is bigger.

Euforia chassis has a better finish and nice solid feet. It is the internal that the changes are greatest.

Euforia sounds a lot more polish and refined. Stock tubes in Euforia sounds a bit too warm and would suit a bright sounding headphone such as hd800.

I am looking forward to Ragnarok. It would be a good contrast to Euforia.

This is as far as I would go in Head-Fi. It's time to make my gear useful and play the music I want to hear.


----------



## connieflyer

Congrats on the new thread UT, good start. I use the Euphoria out to my Harmin-Kardon 2200 receiver and PSB Silver's and find that it helps to smooth out and warm up the sound just a tad. Nice sound, even had my old boss over for a listen and he was very surprised how much better it sounded this way. SOOOOOOOO UT, since you no longer need 800's you putting them up for sale?  I could always use a spare pair!


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks CF.

UT's going it solo at the moment. So good on you to drop in. 

As good as speakers sounds and 'feels', I would still need headphones. Like now at 1:50 am, I couldn't possibly turn on the stereo.

Besides HD800 looks so funky, if I only have one headphone to keep, that would be it.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Congrats on the new thread UT, good start. I use the Euphoria out to my Harmin-Kardon 2200 receiver and PSB Silver's and find that it helps to smooth out and warm up the sound just a tad. Nice sound, even had my old boss over for a listen and he was very surprised how much better it sounded this way. SOOOOOOOO UT, since you no longer need 800's you putting them up for sale?  I could always use a spare pair!



That is the benefit of a tube preamp. Incidentally Schiit also has a tube preamp - Freya. It uses 6sn7. !!!


----------



## UntilThen

Speaking of going solo, that's not a problem. UT is used to it. It's like writing my own blog.


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 13, 2017)

I am looking at Feliks Audio tube amp William.

It is simply gorgeous. I would love that to drive my speakers. No need for preamp then. 

Behold 'William'.

I need to talk to Lukasz about giving me a deal on this.


----------



## UntilThen

Soooo..... with Euforia and Yggdrasil in the lounge, I'm now in my study naked, without anything.... to drive my HD800.

Then I look around and behold right in front of me is the Bose Companion 5 control pod. Hahaha.... thanks be to my wife again for this present. Soooooo .... I plug in my HD800 using the 6.3mm to 3.5mm Senn connector and bingo, I have the most beautiful Bose sound. 

There's power galore here and HD800 is singing like a bad boy. If I turn on the Bose subwoofer, this study is going to reverberate..... literally.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm ecstatic now. Just learn that Ragnarok has a SE preamp out to feed a powered subwoofer as well as power a pair of speakers using the speakers RCA out.

So I'm going to run it this way:-

Onkyo > Yggdrasil > Ragnarok > Axis LS28 > Def Tech sub. 

Will test with Euforia as preamp into Rag and without. To see what I like better. Looking forward to it.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Mordy, I have move from my study to my lounge now.
> 
> It's party time and let the tsunami begin.
> 
> And nobody bid on that Chatham 2399 because it's mine.


Arrgh - the pair went for $170 + shipping....

What happened - u don't like the Fotons? Fotons & RCA = GEC saver.


UntilThen said:


> I'm ecstatic now. Just learn that Ragnarok has a SE preamp out to feed a powered subwoofer as well as power a pair of speakers using the speakers RCA out.
> 
> So I'm going to run it this way:-
> 
> ...


When is Rag coming?


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 13, 2017)

Hi Mordy,

I didn't say I don't like Fotons. It's just that I have many better 6sn7s. 

The same applies to RCA 6as7g.

The reality is that with speakers, I could really use any tubes and it will still sound good. Tubes play a small part now for me. The DAC plays a BIG part.

A2A told me their back order for Rag and other stuff from USA is coming in a week's time. They have orders coming in all the time, from different manufacturers and different parts of the world, as you can imagine. I am not hopeful of one week though. More like 2 to 3 weeks timeframe is my guesstimate. It's ok. I can wait. My $100 deposit is sitting in their till..... sob.

You know what? When he offered me the 'cheaper' Violectric V281, I was actually quite tempted but in the end, the appeal of a co-ordinated Schiit combo won over. Besides I have heard Ragnarok and it is indeed the end of the world..... I mean the end of my search in Head-Fi.

Yeah seriously, I think I am done after Yggdrasil and Ragnarok. Maybe a KEF LS50.... but then my Axis LS28 which John Reilly modelled after the legendary LS3/5A, is so good, do I really need another pair of small speakers?

I need to plug in my Axis LS88 floor standers and use the big Denon amplification. At the moment the Denon is acting as a stand for the Sherwood. 

This weekend, I'll get a HiFi rack and re-arrange the lounge.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Arrgh - the pair went for $170 + shipping....



I wonder if my son won this bid. He wanted it for 'his' La Figaro 339.


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> Speaking of going solo, that's not a problem. UT is used to it. It's like writing my own blog.


Better than going commando I thought.


UntilThen said:


> Soooo..... with Euforia and Yggdrasil in the lounge, I'm now in my study naked, without anything.... to drive my HD800.


And now this…

Do not post photos!


----------



## UntilThen

@Oskari  when you meet St Peter, you will be ask this question. I hope you have the answers.....


----------



## UntilThen

@Oskari  while you are pondering your username and password, let me jot your memory with this picture....


----------



## UntilThen

Those of you reading this thread from office, please get ready to hit the escape key in case your boss comes around.


----------



## UntilThen

I can't believe that this thread hasn't got a video yet. So I will play the first from Bob Seger, 'Against The Wind'. Such a poignant and beautiful song. Are you running against the wind? Fear not, I'm with you. I'll keep you entertained and motivated.


----------



## UntilThen

So if I wanted to, I can still go back to Tom the salesman and get the Violectric v281. Do you think I should? 

Would you take this...
 

or this to be your lawful wedded bliss.


----------



## connieflyer

UT your Ragnarok has arrived enjoy!!!


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> UT your Ragnarok has arrived



What's he singing? 

Hey CF how's your Gumby going. Did you try it with your speakers?


----------



## connieflyer

Have no idea what is singing But by the looks of those good people they can sing whatever they want and I am not going to argue with them. Gumby is doing fine and I have used it with speakers and it has made a difference in what I'm hearing on the speaker system. Clarity is great and it adds just a very small Touch of warmth to the solid-state amplifier I am really enjoying this.


----------



## attmci

Ut,  is this you? 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/122596408204?ul_noapp=true

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6080WB-Bend...739051?hash=item2126321c6b:g:0cwAAOSwKytZDh72


----------



## UntilThen

Attmci, its not me. Do I look like Mr Bendix?

I would have five 6080wb graphite plates when oshipao send me those 2 nuggets.

I like these Bendix as much as I do the Gec 6as7g.

Tung Sol 5998 and Gec 6080 are a second tier for me.

This is according to UT's fiefdom.


----------



## connieflyer

Hi UT, a little question for you.  Does the Euforia have a user changeable fuse in it? Amp was playing fine, using pre-amp out about two hours ago. Just went to turn it back on, and nothing. No pilot light, changed tubes no thing.  Unplugged and removed tubes did smell check and no burn smell at all. Was using Sylvania 6an7gt's and Raytheon 6080, no apparent problem listened for a couple of hours, not any warmer than usual. Now nothing.  Before I open it up wanted to check and see if you knew about possible user fuse inside.  If not have to send back to Poland I guess. Thanks UT.


----------



## whirlwind

Look on the back, where the power cord plugs in.
See if there is a little flap to lift up, fuse may be in there.


----------



## connieflyer

Got it, they do a good job of hiding in plain sight. Pulled it, checked it, blown. Have to find a replacement.


----------



## whirlwind

Good, hope it gets you back in business


----------



## connieflyer

Sent email to Lukasz to get size and type could not read from fuse.


----------



## connieflyer

Would have been a good idea for feliks to put fuse info in product brochure since it is user replaceable.  I can make out part of it looks to be 250V but first part can not make out even with magnifiy glass.


----------



## connieflyer

Whirlwind, are you still enjoying your Draug 2 cable on the 800's?  Have been thinking along those lines. Thanks for the info on the fuse, looked right at it, but with the trap door around the side, it is well hidden. Nice design, fit and finish.


----------



## whirlwind

Yeah, it sure beats taking the amp apart for just a fuse.

Yeah, still rocking the Draug 2 cable


----------



## connieflyer

Surprised the fuse blew, but it happens. Glad it was an easy change.  Have to pick up a few, just in case it happens again, but if it does, may want to return it to find out why, if it happens again. That is a nice looking cable, I like the Senn cable but it is just so long.  Could cut it and re-terminate I suppose, but then if I sold it would want stock cable to go back on.  Thanks again for the fuse info, appreciate it.


----------



## whirlwind

Hopefully it was just the fuse and you can get back to listening.

I found the Senn stock cable too long for my liking also.


----------



## UntilThen

What you need is golden Hifi fuse - evil smile here. 

Yes I am shopping for a balance xlr 4 pin cable for my hd800.

It is said that on Schiit Yggy and Rggy there is a noticeable difference. It adds surround sound.


----------



## connieflyer

UT would you know what fuse is in the Euforia?  I can read the 250V part but first part is not clear.


----------



## connieflyer

UT would you happen to know what size the fuse is? I can read the last part 250V but not the first part.  Whirlwind says the Draug 2 cable for the Senn not only brings surround sound but also 4K video feed!


----------



## UntilThen

CF I will check the fuse tonight.

I think I am sold on the Draug 2 already if it can do 4k feed.


----------



## connieflyer

Gives a nice clear picture of what you're listening to really enhances the enjoyment of the music!!


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Gives a nice clear picture of what you're listening to really enhances the enjoyment of the music!!



I need to play that song 'I can see clearly now that the rain has gone'.


----------



## UntilThen

CF I am addicted to speakers now. This weekend I will listen to Godzilla.

I need to shake the deck....


----------



## UntilThen

This is the type of fuse used in Elise. I imagine it's the same used in Euforia.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/20pcs-1A-25...677969?hash=item3f72c86f51:g:eOUAAOSwnHZYa6tn


----------



## UntilThen

As enjoyable as the speakers are, I kind of miss the headphone listening experience. Particularly my HD800. Also thinking of picking up a LCD 2.2 or Focal Elear...... 

With headphones, you have this intimacy that is not present in speakers. The music trapped inside your head is a powerful force. It can drive you nuts. Literally.


----------



## connieflyer

Thanks for the info UT. Lukasz got back and said it was a T1 either 1.6 a or 1.0 a would work.  Just spent two hours driving around local area, no one has them, electronic repair shops won't sell parts. because of insurance companies said it would be liability if someone bought one and then injured themselves putting them in themselves.  Most electronic supply's are out of business.  Lukasz did not offer to send one either. I know it is not a warranty part, but good customer service extends beyond this type of part. Well I will have to order on line I suppose. If another one blows, amp will be going bye bye.


----------



## whirlwind

connieflyer said:


> Thanks for the info UT. Lukasz got back and said it was a T1 either 1.6 a or 1.0 a would work.  Just spent two hours driving around local area, no one has them, electronic repair shops won't sell parts. because of insurance companies said it would be liability if someone bought one and then injured themselves putting them in themselves.  Most electronic supply's are out of business.  Lukasz did not offer to send one either. I know it is not a warranty part, but good customer service extends beyond this type of part. Well I will have to order on line I suppose. If another one blows, amp will be going bye bye.




Have you tried, like an Ace Hardware or an auto store like auto zone


----------



## connieflyer

Thanks but no luck. Auto stores had some but mostly the auto plug in type. Hardware also had a few but none were right. Only found one store that even had the 5mmx20mm fuse and the was a 5a.  So ordered from MCM electronic supply out of New York. Bought a pack of the 1a and 1.5a shipped $9 should be here in two days. Ebay was about the same price but took to long. MCM have been in business for about 40 years and two to the tv repair shops I went to, suggested them.


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 14, 2017)

connieflyer said:


> Thanks for the info UT. *Lukasz got back and said it was a T1 either 1.6 a or 1.0 a would work.*  Just spent two hours driving around local area, no one has them, electronic repair shops won't sell parts. because of insurance companies said it would be liability if someone bought one and then injured themselves putting them in themselves.  Most electronic supply's are out of business.  Lukasz did not offer to send one either. I know it is not a warranty part, but good customer service extends beyond this type of part. Well I will have to order on line I suppose. If another one blows, amp will be going bye bye.



T1?

The part name is F1AL250V.

Sometime ago, my Elise stop working too. I changed the fuse because I have a pack of 10+ left to me when I bought my Darkvoice 336se from the previous owner. Fuse can blow for a number of reasons. That's why they are there. So your amp and house doesn't blow up. 

The replacement I use is 1.0 A and 5mm x 20mm.


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 14, 2017)

So anyone..... I need some input. I want another headphone with good mid-range and a kick ass bass and not too shabby treble too.

I was thinking ....

1. LCD2.2
2. Focal Elear
3. ZMF Atticus
4. ZMF Omni  -  is this the same as ZMF Ori?
5. Fostex th900
6. HiFiMan HE-6
7. Dr. Beats 

Thank you.... much appreciated.

It will be powered by Ragnarok mainly or in the case of HE-6, even my vintage receiver. I may try Euforia with it.... may try....


----------



## connieflyer

His reply,  
Sorry to hear about this. We use either T1.6A or even T1.0A can do. Hope it's an easy fix. Got the 1.0 and 1.5 amp just to cover. Two five packs, so should be good. Who would have thought it would be this hard to find a fuse locally. Talked to one repair shop owner, had been in business locally for 45 years, and he said the electronics group he belongs to nationwide, said they had over 40,000 registered repair shops in 1985 and by 2000 it was down to 4000 shops, this is for the whole U.S.  We had a nice long talk about electronics and I was amazed at how much it had changed over the years.  I think Radio Shack was the last national chain until they declared bankrupcy I think 2015 or 16. People might want to order some fuses to have on hand instead of having to wait.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> So anyone..... I need some input. I want another headphone with good mid-range and a kick ass bass and not too shabby treble too.
> 
> I was thinking ....
> 
> ...


What does AA, I mean A2A, suggest?


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> People might want to order some fuses to have on hand instead of having to wait.



It's definitely a very GOOD IDEA. 

When I was given the spare fuses, when I bought the Darkvoice 2nd hand, I was scratching my head.... I thought to myself.... why would I need that? Now I know.... when 'Smoke On The Water' comes on loud and your fuse blows, that's when you need it.... 

My house use to have hard fuses that blows and then I need to replace with another until I got the electrician to replace the whole board with circuit breaker. So when it trips, I just flick it on again. Easy presto !!!


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> What does AA, I mean A2A, suggest?



A2A suggest buy all of them..... bastards.


----------



## UntilThen

UntilThen said:


> I need some input. I want another headphone with good mid-range and a kick ass bass and not too shabby treble too.



The reason I want these attributes is because mid-range matters to me. No mid-range, no talk... I mean my sweet Chinese sopranos and Sissel (and God forbid Celine Dion) need to sound their best... 

also after listening to speakers with subwoofer, I realise I like bass that shakes and move you. 

HOWEVER, now listening to HD800 with Euforia and Yggdrasil, the sound is simply magic. Can it get better than this? I mean another headphone?


----------



## UntilThen

Alright, this reviewer seems to like his Foxtex TH900 a lot. Says he feels guilty using it where bass is concerned. With both Ragnarok and HeadAmp GS-X mk2. Quite a lot of info there for me on the Ragnarok amp.

At least I know now that it competes with HeadAmp GS-X mk2, which is 1/3 more than Rggy in price. 

https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/schiit-audio-ragnarok.20257/reviews#review-11797


----------



## UntilThen

Oh wow, the 7 reviews of Ragnarok on Head-Fi are glowing.... 

one says he prefers Ragnarok over .....  _*I prefer it to the WA22, GSXmk2, Liquid Glass, Mjolnir, and Auralic Taurus Mk2.  There really isn't much to say here, the bar has been raised.
*_
Seriously? I can't wait to get this monster.


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> T1?
> 
> The part name is F1AL250V.





Oskari said:


> My Elise (230V) is an early version. The fuse reads T1.6AL250V.


T = slow blow. F = fast blow.


----------



## UntilThen

Hahahaha ..... the honesty in this review. 

*I did not do any blind comparisons with this amplifier. My observations are subjective and biased. Nothing in this review should be trusted. I am not a professional.*


----------



## UntilThen

Oskari said:


> T = slow blow. F = fast blow.



So ... do we want slow or fast blow? Me? I prefer no blow.


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> So ... do we want slow or fast blow? Me? I prefer no blow.


Blow is better than fire.

F-A uses T.

Using T instead of specified F would be a very bad idea. But that's not the case here.


----------



## UntilThen

Oskari said:


> Blow is better than fire.
> 
> F-A uses T.
> 
> Using T instead of specified F would be a very bad idea. But that's not the case here.



Ah yes agree. If FA uses T, then it's fine.

Logically I would think if it's going to blow, you want the fuse to blow fast rather than slow.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> So anyone..... I need some input. I want another headphone with good mid-range and a kick ass bass and not too shabby treble too.
> 
> I was thinking ....
> 
> ...




Yes, the Omni is the same as the  Ori. it is 50 Ohm planar and would be better with Rag

Atticus & Eikon are both 300 Ohm dynamic cans, so  both your amps would be good with these.

The Atticus or Eikon is next on my list....Zach has some great new wood also.....i am going for this wood, it is Camphor wood....they are gorgeous



 


All of the ZMF headphones you mention are about 85-90% closed.

i would also like to hear the Fostex can you have listed.


----------



## UntilThen

So I have move Euforia and Yggy back to the study again.... and I am happy again.

My 'office' L shaped desk with my ergonomic supporting chair is my ideal listening environment. Everything is handy and within reach. Best of all, the computer and screen with high speed broadband is right in front of me. 

Turntable, CD player or Roon off my Windows 10 PC ..... all the bases covered.

Lastly, tubes are all stored conveniently in the desk drawers. So changing tubes is a snap ! 

Finally above lastly, with HD800 on my head at 6am, I am not afraid of waking up the household.

Oh.... and I promise it's really lastly and finally..... a small oil column heater warms the room much better than the big lounge.


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> Logically I would think if it's going to blow, you want the fuse to blow fast rather than slow.


Sometimes fast is too fast. A fuse must withstand the inrush current at power up, for example.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Yes, the Omni is the same as the Ori. it is 50 Ohm planar and would be better with Rag
> 
> Atticus & Eikon are both 300 Ohm dynamic cans, so both your amps would be good with these.
> 
> The Atticus or Eikon is next on my list....Zach has some great new wood also.....i am going for this wood, it is Camphor wood....they are gorgeous



Whirlwind, I like you. I really do. I can talk Head-Fi with you the whole day. We share the same passion and the same propensity to empty our wallets and to drive our significant other up the wall. 

Thanks for the info on these nice looking headphones with wood. I mean really gorgeous looking wood and I love nice looking wood. Speaking of which I want to get a genuine Omega headphone stand for my HD800.

Don't know if I need the Eikon as I already have the HD800 but the Atticus and Omni are really appealing. Of course, there's the Fostex TH900.

I just learn that this reviewer thinks that the Ragnarok will drive the HE-6 very well.....

_Probably the closest to "match made in heaven" is the HE-6. Nothing else in my stable controls it as well. And, with the HE-6, that is always the challenging part: Enough power and good control of that power? Check and check. I like the HE-6 with relatively neutral amps and signal chains and feel like it is capable of magic under the right circumstances. This combination does not disappoint. Run, don't walk.
_
But but.... no mention of Focal Elear? @aqsw ? I heard this headphone at the Sydney Meet 2017 and really like it. It's FULL BODIED. Think Cassandra Wilson.


----------



## UntilThen

Oskari said:


> Sometimes fast is too fast.



Hahaha .... quote of the day !

I laugh till I'm teary....


----------



## whirlwind

You would have no problem powering the HE-6 with the Rag, or your reciever, many use the speaker taps of a vintage receiver.


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 14, 2017)

whirlwind said:


> You would have no problem powering the HE-6 with the Rag, or your reciever, many use the speaker taps of a vintage receiver.



Problem is I only want one more headphone... and that's a long list there....

I am thinking really hard...


----------



## whirlwind

That would be a tough choice between all of those.

There are  a lot of good headphones there, both open and closed.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> That would be a tough choice between all of those.



This gif is telling me....

 

I think I will toss a coin..... always works....


----------



## UntilThen

Joe, that camphor wood is really nice. What wood is your ZMF Omni? Got a picture of it?


----------



## whirlwind

It is called Ormosia Henryi


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> It is called Ormosia Henryi



Omg it's so nice. $939 with seahorse case. Strong contender now. Strong bass? Describe a bit of the tone please. This is a planar magnetic which means fast transient response. Might be what I am looking for. After all I have 3 dynamic headphones already.


----------



## whirlwind

The Ori is a Fostex T50-RP that has been modded by Zach and also tuned by him.

The bass is really fun and it has a little extra thump , because that is how Zach tunes them. The mids are still pretty good and the treble is decreased just a little, again it is how Zach tunes them.

They are wonderful for acoustic music and blues. they need a little current to make them sing their best and for the bass to sound its best, the Rag definitely provides that.

So strong bass, and a darker treble, though not too dark. If you do not like the tuning, Zach offers to tune to your request 1 time for free, say you want less bass and more treble or something.
Lots of different woods to choose from for the Ori model...you also pick the color of the sliders and the headband that you would want. Comes with two different sets of ear pads.
Could probably find a set on the used market for a pretty good deal.
The build quality is wonderful, but they will be heavier than the hD650 and the HD800....not sure how heavy your HE560 was.....probably heavier than that also.

Same drivers as this headphone....you could by something cheaper like this to see if you like it or not.
http://www.zmfheadphones.com/order-the-zmf/zmf-classic

Some say it is too much money for a modded Fostex TR-50....but they sound fantastic. It is the same headphone , the TR-50 that Mr. speakers mods for the Alpha Dog and Alpha Prime

I think I have covered everything.
Here is a link to the website.

http://www.zmfheadphones.com/


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks @whirlwind  for taking the time to describe in detail everything about the ZMF Ori.

I know it has a growing fan base as well as sceptics.  However my opinion is that one ought to listen to those who have heard it rather than those who theorise. 

The description you gave are the attributes I am looking for. This is to complement the HD800. However, I will continue with my research and will decide on one of the many I list.... 

More importantly, it has to work well with the Ragnarok and if it did work well with Euforia, then that's a bonus.


----------



## whirlwind

My OTL amp sounds pretty good with the Ori.

It plays plenty loud enough, and the bass still sound good, but that is only half of the battle.
Still it sounded good enough that I used it with my OTL for a long time, before feeding it better.
I would call it a fun headphone.

It is just that with more current provided, then the drivers are really singing much better and the bass improves the most.


----------



## UntilThen

That's what surprise me with Elise and HE560 too. Sounded beautiful despite some sceptics saying they are not a good match. When I listen to HE560 with a standard Modi and Magni, I hated it. It's too sharp and digital to my ears. Elise colour it nicely.

I would love to listen to HE560 with the Ragnarok though. Would love to hear how it sounds.

Incidentally I will take my son's Modi and Magni home tonight and give it a whirl again. My impressions then was that it is no better than my previous JDS Lab o2/odac.


----------



## myphone

Have been mostly listening to Euforia since her arrival. 

My vinyl gig is fully balanced, I tried out HD800/HVDA600.

 

Personally, I prefer vinyl in traditional 2 channel speaker system. Headphone just could not catch the unique ambiance.

For headphone listening, still prefer this combo.


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 15, 2017)

Alright now we have some serious competitor. Wow plug my HD800 into it and it hits so hard.


----------



## UntilThen

Man I'm looking at those ZMF headphones and they sure look nice !

Which one to decide and what wood is the question. Perhaps Atticus or Ori with some natural looking wood.


----------



## UntilThen

UntilThen said:


> Alright now we have some serious competitor. Wow plug my HD800 into it and it hits so hard.



Alright, this is why you buy quality head-fi gear for real musical enjoyment. This is like Thailand's karaoke bar. Enough said....

I'm returning to Yggy and Euforia before my hearing gets damage.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

UntilThen said:


> Alright, this is why you buy quality head-fi gear for real musical enjoyment. This is like Thailand's karaoke bar. Enough said....
> 
> I'm returning to Yggy and Euforia before my hearing gets damage.



What about the T1 and the Euforia? Do you still have the T1? How does it compare to the HD800, from your perspective?


----------



## UntilThen

Liu Junyuan said:


> What about the T1 and the Euforia? Do you still have the T1? How does it compare to the HD800, from your perspective?



I do. I have swap both headphones many times using Yggy and Euforia for one month and 25 days now. Let me listen one more time and I will post my impressions of both headphones.


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 15, 2017)

*Sennheiser HD800 vs Beyerdynamic T1
*
I will start by stating that this is strictly my opinion based on my gear, my ears and my preference. I have no affiliation with Sennheiser or Beyerdynamic - I wish I had !!! Also I am by no means a dedicated reviewer. I'm just an audio enthusiast. So take this with a grain of salt and a large bottle of Coca Cola.

This is a short summary of my impressions of the 2 headphones above. Both are the original versions. My HD800 is stock and was bought new almost 2 months ago while the T1 is 2nd hand but still in good condition. The T1 has an after market 1.5m 7N OCC Litz copper cable installed in place of the original cable. It was already installed when I bought it but I was also given the original cable.

Gear used for listening are Yggdrasil and Euforia tube amp. Tubes used in Euforia are Tung Sol 6sn7gtb black base 1960s and GEC 6080. Source includes my CD player and Roon accessing Tidal HiFi on my one year old Windows 10 PC.

Songs listened to include a selection of classical, jazz, rock, blues.

*Beyerdynamic T1*

1st thought that comes to my mind is that this headphone sounded brighter and sharper. Literally. 2nd thought is that it has more bite. Literally. It's like a doberman whereas the HD800 feels like a German Shepherd.
Headstage is perceptibly less wide. Mid bass has more impact but doesn't extend as low.
Mid-range is more recessed compared to HD800.


Treble is clearer - definitely. I've never felt it fatiguing before but after getting used to HD800, T1's treble kind of gets to me.... too much of a good thing.


It sounds more clinical than HD800. Less layers and textures. It's not necessary bad. It's a different presentation.

*Sennheiser HD800*

Once I put on this headphone and listening to the same songs, treble is immediately less forward and sharp. Mid-range is fuller and not recessed like the T1. Note T1's mid is only very slightly more recessed. It's still a very enjoyable mid. It's just in comparison with the Sennheiser here.


HD800 mid-bass is less pronounced than T1 but sub-bass extends lower. Bass sounded more spread out. T1's bass is tighter and more compact.


HD800 has more layers and texture compared to T1. It's more soothing on the ears. It's a comforting tone, especially after listening to the T1 for a while.
*
Summary*
Without doubt, I much prefer Sennheiser HD800. From comfort, fit to tonal preference, I will take the Senns anytime, anyday and walk down the aisle, with or without rings. 

T1 is a close second. I'd probably walk down the aisle with both if I could. Both headphones work wonderfully with Euforia. T1 needs a full 1 click more on the volume than HD800.

However if I were to walk down the aisle with both the HD800 and T1, what about the HD650......

I think the aisle isn't wide enough to walk down with 3 headphones !!!!

Plus I have in mind another rich mid-range and stronk bass headphone like the HE-6. Walking down the aisle with 4 headphones?

I don't even want to think about it !


----------



## Liu Junyuan

UntilThen said:


> *Sennheiser HD800 vs Beyerdynamic T1
> *
> I will start by stating that this is strictly my opinion based on my gear, my ears and my preference. I have no affiliation with Sennheiser or Beyerdynamic - I wish I had !!! Also I am by no means a dedicated reviewer. I'm just an audio enthusiast. So take this with a grain of salt and a large bottle of Coca Cola.
> 
> ...



Well done, and this is as expected. I still would love to hear a T1 with my two OTL amps some day.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

I suppose one further observation is that it seems to be that when you have the Yggy you prefer the HD800. Perhaps the relatively highly resolving and detailed Yggy doesn't jive well with the T1, yet when you were using the NAD, the T1 was less offensive.


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 15, 2017)

Liu Junyuan said:


> I suppose one further observation is that it seems to be that when you have the Yggy you prefer the HD800. Perhaps the relatively highly resolving and detailed Yggy doesn't jive well with the T1, yet when you were using the NAD, the T1 was less offensive.



There's a perfectly legitimate explanation for this and I think you observed correctly.

NAD d1050 is warmer in tone and less detailed than Yggy ... a lot less details. A warm NAD and a slightly warm Elise or Euforia goes very well with the more clinical T1.

Once I had Yggy and HD800, I find myself looking for tubes that would add more warm, lushness and textures to the chain. I had to balance out the sound. I had to find the synergy that is right for my ears. It was not difficult to do that because I have a lot of very good tubes. Yggy is neutral, fast and dynamic while still sounding very natural without fatigue. It's a strange phenomenon. I like the agile and feet tapping ability of Yggy. HD800 is no slouch. Hence a tube amp such as Euforia fits the bill nicely.

However Yggy and Ragnarok with HD800 is a combination that surprised me literally. It's less warm and lush than with Euforia but the tonal presentation is very neutral and revealing. This is going to show up bad recordings badly. With good recordings, you will hear the headphone for what it is. Somehow, Yggy and Rag with HD800 tone is very 'musical'. I find nothing digital about it. It sounded very natural to me. So much so at A2A, I wanted to buy all 3 of the components that day. However I left with Yggy and HD800. Now a month later, I have placed my order for Rggy. You have no idea how much I am looking forward to Ragnarok !!!


----------



## Liu Junyuan (Jul 15, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> There's a perfectly legitimate explanation for this and I think you observed correctly.
> 
> NAD d1050 is warmer in tone and less detailed than Yggy ... a lot less details. A warm NAD and a slightly warm Elise or Euforia goes very well with the more clinical T1.
> 
> ...



As I suspected. The Yggy is honestly like the HD800 of DACs. It is incredibly revealing; paired with something like a T1, and you may be in trouble, at least from what I can gather based on second-hand impressions.

In terms of solid state, I have read the Rag is a great amplifier for the HD800, but I have no experience whatsoever. I think that and perhaps DNA Stratus/Stellaris are end-game HD800 amps.

The Utopia I own does really well with the ZDS and the Yggy; it is pretty much perfect synergy.


----------



## UntilThen

Liu Junyuan said:


> As I suspected. The Yggy is honestly like the HD800 of DACs. It is incredibly revealing; paired with something like a T1, and you may be in trouble, at least from what I can gather based on second-hand impressions.
> 
> In terms of solid state, I have read the Rag is a great amplifier for the HD800, but I have no experience whatsoever. I think that and perhaps DNA Stratus/Stellaris are end-game HD800 amps.
> 
> The Utopia I own does really well with the ZDS and the Yggy; it is pretty much perfect synergy.



I am starting to know a few people on Head-Fi well, whose system I admired and like. Yours is one of them and @whirlwind 's another.

Yggy's analogy with HD800 is only true in terms of resolution and details. Yggy on the other hand, sounds very analogue to me. It's approaching vinyl sound - incredible. Yggy's strong controlled bass is another very infectious attributes that wins me over completely. I wouldn't trade Yggy's tone for something warmer and more relax now. I actually like it how it is. If anything, I'll work my other components around it.

I read so much good things about DNA Stratus with HD800, I almost ordered the Stratus instead of Ragnarok.  In the end, I don't want to drown with too much tubes and Rag has the added bonus of pairing very well with KEF LS50..... something I will keep in mind...

If anything LJ, I would very much like to listen to your Yggy > ZDS > Utopia setup. If that is not end game, I don't know what is.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

UntilThen said:


> I would very much like to listen to your Yggy > ZDS > Utopia setup. If that is not end game, I don't know what is.



Yep. End game.


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 19, 2017)

*6AS7 / 6080 power tubes review*

This is an on going review that will be added over days.... I'll be editing this post and add on as I go along.

This is my write up of power tubes that are recommended for Elise and Euforia. These are my own impressions and does not mirror anyone else. There could be consistencies with some other write ups. In which case, it just shows that we agree on certain aspects of these tubes.

The gear that I use for these reviews are as follows:-

Source :- CD player and Roon accessing Tidal HiFi on a Windows 10 PC.
DAC :- Yggdrasil
Amp :- Euforia by Feliks Audio

Songs included a selection classical, jazz, rock and blues.

*Premier tubes*

*GEC 6AS7G*
This is the best power tube - period. Call it holy grail, king's nuggets, US treasury bonds, anything. Their sound quality are as good as the price they command. There is a smoothness to the tone that is not present in the lesser tubes. Tone signature include slight warmth and lushness. Great layering and textures. It's like a delicately woven fabric. It is exceeding clear and revealing of your music nuances. It's the epitome of tube goodness.

*Bendix 6080wb*
This tube has unique sound qualities that place them at the 2nd in line of my tube hierarchy. Sound qualities include a solid full body tone, great bass weight, wide headstage and a 3 dimensional audio presentation. The physical construction are as solid as their sound qualities. These tubes are designed for missile applications. Just holding it in your hands will reveal their over built qualities. Use as an audio power tube in Euforia, it is a tone to die for.

*Tung Sol 5998*
5998 have long been admired for it's special qualities. It has a higher transconductance compared to 6as7 or 6080 tubes. Irrespective of their higher gain, this tube sound exciting, full of energy and dynamic punch. If you need to liven up your music, this is the tube. Treble is clear cut, midrange is prominent and bass is impactful and extends low.

*GEC 6080*
This tube has similar qualities to the GEC 6as7g but has a lighter tone. It is more airy and breezy. There's sufficient warm and lushness to make it a fine, quality tube. Tone is very clear and fresh. It is highly desirable.

Interval


----------



## UntilThen

@Liu Junyuan  I'm reading this article. Might give me some perspective on the headphone I'm looking for.

http://earphiles.org/2017/04/totl-closed-headphone-shoot-out/


----------



## connieflyer

I was surprised they recommend a slow blow myslef.  The ones I bought are fast blow.  If they are using slow blow they must encounter reaching limit occasionally, without damage.  Electronics I have always used fast blow, fuses are cheap.  UT here is a review of Elear and lcd3 http://www.audioholics.com/headphone-reviews/focal-elear-headphone-review, the Elear gives up some on the mid-range compared to the LCD3, and that to me is the sweet spot.


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 15, 2017)

Slow blow, fast blow, hahaha... we're still at it.... it's really funny.

CF have a read of that link I post of the totl closed headphone shootout. Might be good that I aim for a closed phone now since all my 3 headphones are open.

Thanks for the link on Elear. It's an open slate now for me. I'm at the research phase. I know what I want.... (or do I? ) and will search for it.


----------



## UntilThen

A conversation I had with Zach from ZMF Atticus and Eikon headphones. He thinks that Euforia is fantastic with Atticus and Eikon. I'm real happy. You hear that Lukasz? I hope you are tuning into my new thread. 

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/a...phones-from-zmf.821782/page-263#post-13601470


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> A conversation I had with Zach from ZMF Atticus and Eikon headphones. He thinks that Euforia is fantastic with Atticus and Eikon. I'm real happy. You hear that Lukasz? I hope you are tuning into my new thread.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/a...phones-from-zmf.821782/page-263#post-13601470




Oh man, did you order...I am jealous  

300 ohm dynamics, should work well with both of your amps.

My wallet says I must wait until Christmas for any new cans.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Oh man, did you order...I am jealous
> 
> 300 ohm dynamics, should work well with both of your amps.
> 
> My wallet says I must wait until Christmas for any new cans.



I am still deciding on Atticus or Eikon. Initially I thought Ori but since Zach says Euforia should work very well with Atticus or Eikon, I'm now leaning that way. Besides A and E has a stronger bass than O. I'm not a bass head but I may be one soon.... 

Also.... I'm prolonging this a bit. There's a few contenders I want to research first...... This will be my last purchase..... @Oskari  don't you dare...... say a word.


----------



## whirlwind

Ori is a planar, so the rag would be a better match....the bass is killer, you can feel it if you wish to go that loud, lol.

I am no bass head, but it is the bass that makes Zach's headphones so much fun, that is the way he tunes them.

Plus a closed headphone just has better bass anyway, YMMV

The HD800 has wonderful bass, the headphone is very balanced across the board....but the ZMF headphone has far more fun bass IMO....again YMMV


----------



## whirlwind

Did Zach say both Atticus & Eikon has more bass than Ori ?

That would be impressive considering the Ori is a closed planar headphone and the Atticus & Eikon are dynamics.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

UntilThen said:


> I am still deciding on Atticus or Eikon. Initially I thought Ori but since Zach says Euforia should work very well with Atticus or Eikon, I'm now leaning that way. Besides A and E has a stronger bass than O. I'm not a bass head but I may be one soon....
> 
> Also.... I'm prolonging this a bit. There's a few contenders I want to research first...... This will be my last purchase..... @Oskari  don't you dare...... say a word.



Atticus.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Did Zach say both Atticus & Eikon has more bass than Ori ?
> 
> That would be impressive considering the Ori is a closed planar headphone and the Atticus & Eikon are dynamics.



Read this impression by grizzlybeast. He says that A & E sub bass is stronger than Ori.

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/a...dphones-from-zmf.821782/page-17#post-12942728


----------



## UntilThen

Liu Junyuan said:


> Atticus.



Yeah? ..... and the reasons?


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> Read this impression by grizzlybeast. He says that A & E sub bass is stronger than Ori.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/a...dphones-from-zmf.821782/page-17#post-12942728


Wouldn't a stronger mid bass make it more fun sounding like Grados?


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Wouldn't a stronger mid bass make it more fun sounding like Grados?



It would. That's why my eyes are lighting up... this will put Dr Beats to shame.


----------



## whirlwind

Rossliew said:


> Wouldn't a stronger mid bass make it more fun sounding like Grados?



Yes, I would agree with this and I think this is the consensus


----------



## Rossliew

Thats why me loves me Grados


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 15, 2017)

Rossliew said:


> Thats why me loves me Grados



Ummm... I heard a few Grados and the only one with strong bass is the Grados PS 500. The PS1000 isn't there .... believe it would be better than the 500.

Then I saw a Grados GS2000e at A2A with the biggest foam. This I would like as it would go around my ears easily.


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> Ummm... I heard a few Grados and the only one with strong bass is the Grados PS 500. The PS1000 isn't there .... believe it would be better than the 500.
> 
> Then I saw a Grados GS2000e at A2A with the biggest foam. This I would like as it would go around my ears easily.


Hmm...my woody modded SR-60 and 80 both have very fun, punchy bass. So do the SR-225e..found the PS1k bright sounding though. Could be the huge foam bowl pads..


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Ummm... I heard a few Grados and the only one with strong bass is the Grados PS 500. The PS1000 isn't there .... believe it would be better than the 500.
> 
> Then I saw a Grados GS2000e at A2A with the biggest foam. This I would like as it would go around my ears easily.




All of Grados pads will fit all of their headphones and they can be swapped out in like , just a few seconds.

Here are the different pads I have for my Grados

 
From left to right 
S cushions
L cushions
Flat pads
G cushions

These will all work with my RS1...here it is shown with the L cushion, which i like best
 

Here you can see how easy it is to swap pads, no time at all, you just push on over these cups and you are done, can't get any easier, lol
 

While all of these pads will work on all of Grados headphones, other than a few combos, i really think Grado ships the right pads with the right headphones, other than the SR60 and SR80...i prefer both of those with the L cushion,
 but then i guess they would have to raise the price of those headphones and that is the beauty of those models, that they are priced really nice.


----------



## Rossliew

My SR60/80/225e sounded horrible with the G cushes..sharp piercing treble and rolled off lows..


----------



## Johnnysound

New thread...!!   The logical thing to do would be closing the previous threads and leave only this one...for everything related to Elise & Euforia amps.


----------



## UntilThen

Johnnysound said:


> New thread...!!   The logical thing to do would be closing the previous threads and leave only this one...for everything related to Elise & Euforia amps.



Not only Elise and Euforia. As the title says, it's for Feliks Audio tube amps. That includes Espressivo and any new headphone models that FA might introduce later.

I concur with everyone coming here but I won't force anyone..... a big welcome to all though.


----------



## UntilThen

Wow @Rossliew  and @whirlwind  you are tempting me on Grados when I haven't even decide on A or E. 

Must says I like the Grados wood and big foam cups.


----------



## angpsi (Jul 15, 2017)

Johnnysound said:


> New thread...!!   The logical thing to do would be closing the previous threads and leave only this one...for everything related to Elise & Euforia amps.


Perhaps. Speaking for myself, if the Elise thread is meant to die then I want it to get a Viking funeral by reaching 10.000 posts. Not that I felt it's supposed to die when UT decided to create a new one, so many new owners of the Elise now looking for answers. But the old brigade still has fist word here; I know I've learned so much from their experience!


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 15, 2017)

angpsi said:


> Perhaps. Speaking for myself, if the Elise thread is meant to die then I want it to get a Viking funeral by reaching 10.000 posts. Not that I felt it's supposed to die when UT decided to create a new one, so many new owners of the Elise now looking for answers. But the old brigade still has fist word here; I know I've learned so much from their experience!



I'm a believer of democracy and free speech. So if there are those who wants to remain on the old thread, which I've contributed to more than half of the posts, they have my blessings.

A thread is only good if it serves the community well. This thread will be a consolidation of ideas for all of Feliks Audio headphone amps. The purpose is to find everything FA related. It's not about me. Trying to reach 10,000 posts is not the sole purpose of any thread.

Other secondary goals would be to get some unbiased reviews of Euforia and Elise against other tube amps. This will give a better idea of how good or bad, the FA amps stacks up. It shouldn't be an inclusive thread. Otherwise it would just be another fanboy club.


----------



## UntilThen

Zach of ZMF headphones have just responded to my queries of how well the Atticus and Eikon match with Euforia. This really makes me happy and my decision is heavily skewed towards one of these headphones now.

*Quote from Zach on the Atticus and Eikon thread.*

_Ha, I have a hard time telling people which headphone to get, in person usually it's 65% prefer Eikon's more neutral and punchy presentation over the slight warmth of the Atticus. This can sometimes depend on the setup and ofcourse the listeners tastes. The EIkon is usually the safer bet for those who haven;t heard them, as it's less amp picky. *The Atticus is a great match with that Euforia though!!!!!*_


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 15, 2017)

The latest good news from Zach.

I think I have been guided by destiny on the choice of my gear. 

_Hah - sorry I know it can be confusing! The Euforia is a great match with both, the rag is great with both, really I think if you have a slight preference to hd800 over the 650 you probably prefer the eikon as a sidekick over the Atticus. *With both those amps you'll certainly be getting the full potential from either the eikon or Atticus.
*_
Now I forgot to ask him... how about La Figaro 339?


----------



## angpsi (Jul 15, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> I'm a believer of democracy and free speech. So if there are those who wants to remain on the old thread, which I've contributed to more than half of the posts, they have my blessings.
> 
> A thread is only good if it serves the community well. This thread will be a consolidation of ideas for all of Feliks Audio headphone amps. The purpose is to find everything FA related. It's not about me. Trying to reach 10,000 posts is not the sole purpose of any thread.
> 
> Other secondary goals would be to get some unbiased reviews of Euforia and Elise against other tube amps. This will give a better idea of how good or bad, the FA amps stacks up. It shouldn't be an inclusive thread. Otherwise it would just be another fanboy club.


Hi UT, I certainly welcome the idea of widening the scope of the discussion about FA products. As you know when everyone was talking about tubes and tube rolling back at the Elise thread I was one of the first trying to consider the Elise

relatively to other amps
in conjunction to other pieces of the audio chain
so much, that I actually felt out of line bugging you with newb questions that were not directly related to tube rolling. So yes, I definitely consider this 'new' outtake on our amps a welcome turn, especially since I feel the tube rolling part is mostly settled in the findings you guys helped produce. On the other hand, I confess I never thought this turn of scope was something that couldn't happen in the already existing threads.

However both of the other two threads, let alone the very existence of the Elise which subsequently gave birth to the Euforia, owe great debt to @hypnos1, yourself, @pctazhp, @mordy, @Oskari, @connieflyer, even @DecentLevi, and all the other great guys I got to meet and share for the last 8-9 months. If everyone migrated here, I'd be happy and honored to share and discuss opinions about the Elise, let alone bikes, wives, audiophile living, and other Schiit.

Yet, as long as you and the other guys, along with the current crop of Elise owners are happy to post on the last Elise thread, I'll be happy to give it a Viking funeral at 10000 posts. After that I can happily lurk around and contribute according to circumstances and occasion, no matter which thread consolidated the knowledge acquired on the wonderful FA projects. Certainly can't maintain a thread on my own, I'm nowhere near the experience and capacity of expanding the discussion without the help of others!


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 15, 2017)

I like to give credit to @hypnos1  because he started it. You know the saying, 'A spark starts a fire?'.

However, main credit to Feliks Audio for without them taking on board H1's suggestion, there would be no Elise and Euforia. I wish them the most successful outcome at the Can Jam 2017.

Not only am I happy with my FA's amps, I find Lukasz the nicest. most professional person I've talked to. He's like a friend to me now.

I meet great friends whilst on the many Elise threads. Also many dramas. Fights, bans and closure of thread. I was right there near the beginning. Now we have someone lurking in the Elise thread again. These are the facts of life. We will loose good and bad people as time goes on ..... including me someday. There will come a time when I need to tick other bucket's list .... like attempt my first sky diving.

How cool is this?




I'm probably the last of the Mohicans...

no @mordy is older. He is Methuselah.


----------



## angpsi (Jul 15, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> I like to give credit to @hypnos1  because he started it. You know the saying, 'A spark starts a fire?'.
> 
> However, main credit to Feliks Audio for without them taking on board H1's suggestion, there would be no Elise and Euforia. I wish them the most successful outcome at the Can Jam 2017.
> 
> ...


Hah! I'll accept sky diving after you get a $50000 new Orpheus!


----------



## angpsi

angpsi said:


> Hah! I'll accept sky diving after you get an $50000 new Orpheus!


Not even a gold-cladded Utopia can cut it as an end game set in your case, or you cease to be my hero!


----------



## angpsi (Jul 15, 2017)

Btw I'm really looking forward to London Can Jam too, it'll be very interesting to see how FA lands on official representation. I'm also extremely interested to see how @hypnos1 Chord Hugo 2 fares now that he's got his end game rig and a fully blown power station to support it!


----------



## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> Not even a gold-cladded Utopia can cut it as an end game set in your case, or you cease to be my hero!



I'll be immortalised. I will have my own star at the Hollywood Walk of Fame. Girls will kiss my star.

 

They will make a statue of me.


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 15, 2017)

angpsi said:


> Btw I'm really looking forward to London Can Jam too, it'll be very interesting to see how FA lands on official representation. I'm also extremely interested to see how @hypnos1 Chord Hugo 2 fares now that he's got his end game rig and a fully blown power station to support it!



Yup first reports of Hugo 2 are very good but it does not trounced Yggdrasil. Very close according to Currawong.

I have a very strong feeling that there will be a Yggdrasil 2 in the form of an upgrade module. Mark my words.


----------



## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> I'll be immortalised. I will have my own star at the Hollywood Walk of Fame. Girls will kiss my star.
> 
> 
> 
> They will make a statue of me.


Or a monument!








(Etienne Louis Boullee, cenotaph for Newton; circa 1784)


----------



## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> Btw I'm really looking forward to London Can Jam too, it'll be very interesting to see how FA lands on official representation.



Are you going? Can you talk a selfie at the Feliks Audio stand? I want to see how punky you look. For that matter, how punky Lukasz looks too.


----------



## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> Yup first reports of Hugo 2 are very good but it does not trounced Yggdrasil. Very close according to Currawong.
> 
> I have a very strong feeling that there will be a Yggdrasil 2 in the form of an upgrade module. Mark my words.


Wasn't there going to be something that would solve the problem of USB once and for all?
Yggy is one of the three best DACs regardless of rice according to Robert Harley, so for an $2500 product it's basically a no brainer. Spent as much buying my Benchmark DAC1, but now I've got to cover tuition first!


----------



## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> Or a monument!



Nah this is the only befitting monument for me. This is where you will listen and view to all the head-fis in the world.

Angelo, what are you doing??? You are getting me way off topic !!!


----------



## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> Are you going? Can you talk a selfie at the Feliks Audio stand? I want to see how punky you look. For that matter, how punky Lukasz looks too.


Nah, just waiting for others to report...


----------



## angpsi (Jul 15, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> Angelo, what are you doing??? You are getting me way off topic !!!


My pleasure! Ok, leaving you to it; got to catch some zzzzs... 2:35am here in Athens!


----------



## angpsi

PS, maybe we should do a double blind test between the two monuments, see which one is best!


----------



## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> Wasn't there going to be something that would solve the problem of USB once and for all?
> Yggy is one of the three best DACs regardless of rice according to Robert Harley, so for an $2500 product it's basically a no brainer. Spent as much buying my Benchmark DAC1, but now I've got to cover tuition first!



Yes I have a feeling they will introduce something that will not use USB at all or use USB 3, which Jason says has potential, given it's higher bandwidth and throughput. Maybe an ethernet solution. Who knows !!! I'm not Schiit !!!  Besides I don't feel like I'm missing anything with USB Gen 3 in Yggy at the moment. There's too much audio nervosa in Head-Fi, let me tell you. People buy Yggy and then spend half as much buying 3rd party products to feed it a better signal. Make sense? 

What would Robert Harley know? According to UntilThen, the great philosopher and poet, the best DAC in the world is Yggdrasil. Period. Comma. Apostrophe, etc, etc.


----------



## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> PS, maybe we should do a double blind test between the two monuments, see which one is best!



Angelo, try a blind test touch of 2 hot tubes. See which one is hotter. Do that and you are my hero !


----------



## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> Angelo, try a blind test touch of 2 hot tubes. See which one is hotter. Do that and you are my hero !


Well, the EL11/12 were very cool. To touch.

goodnight!


----------



## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> Wasn't there going to be something that would solve the problem of USB once and for all?



What is the problem with USB? It is the Universal Serial Bus.

If you need the dedicated bus or double decker bus, look elsewhere.


angpsi said:


> Well, the EL11/12 were very cool. To touch.
> 
> goodnight!



Forbidden fruits remember? Paradise lost remember? The red apple remember?

I'll tell you a very cool to touch tube.

A light bulb that is not switch on.


----------



## UntilThen

Ok now back to considering the headphone for my Euforia and Ragnarok after a long discourse on world history.


----------



## Rossliew

I can't keep up lol


----------



## UntilThen

Cos you can young man.


----------



## mordy (Jul 15, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> What is the problem with USB? It is the Universal Serial Bus.
> 
> If you need the dedicated bus or double decker bus, look elsewhere.
> 
> ...


Hi UT,




USB3 (for increased headroom)

BTW, pct is older than me.....


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy, I am not talking about age. I am talking about length of time on Elise thread since the beginning when dinasaurs roam the earth...


----------



## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> Well, the EL11/12 were very cool. To touch.
> 
> goodnight!



Then why did you sell it off?


----------



## UntilThen

It's been a while since I use the Psvane 6sn7 drivers and I'm doing that now with RCA 6as7g as power tubes.

This combination is particularly pleasing with Yggy and HD800. So full of body, texture and density. Yet sounding so clear and sweet. A lovely combination indeed.


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 16, 2017)

Looks like it's down to either ZMF Atticus or Eikon as my choice for a rich mid-range and spectacular bass headphone to add to my inventory. I'm reading through this thread to get more information.

It's hearthening to see Zach being enarmoured with Euforia. He was given a Euforia by Feliks Audio.

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/a...ic-driver-headphones-from-zmf.821782/page-263


----------



## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> Then why did you sell it off?


How do you think I financed the Mullard 6080, the Sylvania 6sn7wgt, the GEC 6080, the Sylvania 6sn7w, the Tung-Sol 5998 and the Tung-Sol 6sn7? Still got two pairs left, the Siemens (TFK) EL12n and the TFK EL12 st if anyone's interested.


----------



## UntilThen

I have 2 x Telefunken EL12 and 2 x RFT EL12N plus 4 EL11/12 to 6sn7 adapters for sale at

just $100 plus shipping. Dirt cheap. Please take it from me.


----------



## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> How do you think I financed the Mullard 6080, the Sylvania 6sn7wgt, the GEC 6080, the Sylvania 6sn7w, the Tung-Sol 5998 and the Tung-Sol 6sn7? Still got two pairs left, the Siemens (TFK) EL12n and the TFK EL12 st if anyone's interested.



Ah I thought you love them because you said they are cool to touch.


----------



## UntilThen

This will eventually be my resident headphones. 

HD800 and ZMF Atticus


----------



## UntilThen

If anyone has good musical hearing, it's Zach of ZMF headphones. You will find a lot of seasoned head-fiers simply loving his ZMF tuned headphones. He is a master headphone tuner with an uncanny ability to turn out great sounding, perfectly voiced headphones.

To get this statement from him, is a real praise for Euforia. We finally have some solid confirmation that this tube amp is good. Just read this response of Zach to me on the ZMF headphone thread...



_I recently got a Euforia from the Feliks guys, and they will be showing the Eikon this weekend at London CanJam for those lucky enough to be there!

The Euforia imho is pretty fantastic with the Atticus Eikon too, I see you have one in your sig._


----------



## whirlwind

Yeah, Zach's tuning is really nice, especially if you like a little more low end.

If you like acoustic music, the bass is just killer in many recordings.
Really wonderful for some down and dirty blues.

If a person owns an OTL amp these cans are a wonderful match....there are not many 300 ohm headphones out there and this is where the OTL amps are best IMO,  100 ohms and up


----------



## Aornic

UntilThen said:


> This will eventually be my resident headphones.
> 
> HD800 and ZMF Atticus


That's actually my photo of the HD800 and ZMF Eikon. Atticus, in padauk wood, will look identical however.


----------



## UntilThen

Aornic said:


> That's actually my photo of the HD800 and ZMF Eikon. Atticus, in padauk wood, will look identical however.



Sorry I 'borrowed' your photo... it's so good though.   I am seriously thinking of getting the Atticus but am torn between it and the Eikon. 

Any advice? 

Zach says that both my amps, Euforia and Ragnarok will pair perfectly with both Atticus and Eikon.


----------



## Aornic

Had a nice time at CanJam hanging out with the guys at the Feliks booth. From my brief listening, I can tell that the Euphoria is a step up from the Elise in detail retrieval, staging and clarity. Despite this, I noticed some preferred the Elise for its warmer characteristic - so it really is a preference and you can't go wrong with either.

Zach asked me to take the ZMF Eikon Camphor to Feliks and it garnered many positive reactions, and for good reason - it pairs fantastically with OTL tube amplifiers and I've been using my Atticus and Eikon at home with the Elise. I preferred it on the Euphoria however, but I need more time (and more tubes) to be sure.

I also really enjoyed the Euphoria with the Focal Utopia. I think it had a very natural sound without any loss of detail or any kind of warm tilt. They told me that they are heavily preferring the use of PSVANE driver tubes now, as the Tung Sols are getting harder to source. I told them of my preference at home for the Mullard 6080 and Ken Rad driver tubes - and they said it sounded interesting, but must run quite hot!


----------



## Aornic

UntilThen said:


> Sorry I 'borrowed' your photo... it's so good though.   I am seriously thinking of getting the Atticus but am torn between it and the Eikon.
> 
> Any advice?
> 
> Zach says that both my amps, Euforia and Ragnarok will pair perfectly with both Atticus and Eikon.


Sure. I will definitely cover it in my Elise review and I wrote some impressions just now above of the Euphoria and Eikon. I think it is a great pairing for its ability to let the Eikon be itself in tonality but also retain a sense of finer detail.


----------



## UntilThen

Aornic said:


> Sure. I will definitely cover it in my Elise review and I wrote some impressions just now above of the Euphoria and Eikon. I think it is a great pairing for its ability to let the Eikon be itself in tonality but also retain a sense of finer detail.



Today of all days is the 'beginning of happiness' for me. So many things you said and the photos and short impressions that you post of the Can Jam 2017 which you attended and met with Feliks Audio guys, just overwhelmed me. 

I have love both Elise and Euforia since I had them and they are like my babies. Whenever someone says any nasty things about them, I feel I want to smack them.  

Seriously, I am so happy for Feliks Audio that their amps are so well received and it sounded great with Eikon !!! I'm so happy for @hypnos1 too for he is responsible for this to happen. Where are you CJ? !!!!!
Come out. It's time I open the Hennessy XO for you. I mean it mon ami..... 

Not only that, You said it sounded great with Focal Utopia. Well my ears weren't lying to me when I heard the Focal Utopia on my Euforia at the April 2017 Sydney meet. I absolutely love it. I proclaimed it the best headphone I have ever had the pleasure of listening to.... and this is with Euforia and my then lowly NAD d1050.

Well Aornic, when you finished your Elise review, do let me know. I want to read it.

Cheers
UT


----------



## UntilThen

The problem is .... now I want the Eikon !!!

Maybe I should buy both Atticus and Eikon !!!!

So tempting now...... oh well you only live once........ honey I just spend another 2.8 grand on headphones.....


----------



## UntilThen

@Aornic  I see the Focal Utopia in the picture. Or it that the Elear?

Who brought it there?

Can you show some pictures of the Feliks Audio troops.


----------



## UntilThen

Aornic said:


> I told them of my preference at home for the Mullard 6080 and Ken Rad driver tubes - and they said it sounded interesting, but must run quite hot!



It's true that 6080 tubes runs hotter. 6as7 are not as hot. Oh well, just run a small fan against it. 

6080 is identical in data spec to 6as7 though and perfectly legitimate.


----------



## Aornic

UntilThen said:


> @Aornic  I see the Focal Utopia in the picture. Or it that the Elear?
> 
> Who brought it there?
> 
> Can you show some pictures of the Feliks Audio troops.


Feliks had both the Utopia and Elear at their booth, as well Beyerdynamic T1. 

Don't have any more photos of their booth I don't think. The lighting at CanJam is really bad for cameras.


----------



## UntilThen

Aornic said:


> Feliks had both the Utopia and Elear at their booth, as well Beyerdynamic T1.
> 
> Don't have any more photos of their booth I don't think. The lighting at CanJam is really bad for cameras.



So they know that the Focal Utopia and Elear plays well with their amps or they won't be using those headphones. Again my ears weren't lying to me. Utopia and Elear sounded gorgeous on my Euforia. 

T1 is a given. I am surprised they don't have my now favourite headphone - HD800.


----------



## UntilThen

Aornic said:


> Despite this, I noticed some preferred the Elise for its warmer characteristic - so it really is a preference and you can't go wrong with either.



I don't agree with this assessment though. Euforia sounded warmer than Elise to me using the same tubes. Euforia have more texture, layers and density of tone. It's a richer sound. Elise sounded leaner to me.

However, both amps are so easily tuneable with a variety of tubes. I could get both amps to sound bright, neutral or warm... at my command. I mean at my tubes command.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Mordy, I am not talking about age. I am talking about length of time on Elise thread since the beginning when dinasaurs roam the earth...


Hi UT,

Look, my Elise is #9 and I paid the original introductory price of $499 - so yes, I am one of the first Mohicans. And since I am ever upgrading, my Euforia is #8! 
And now, a preview of USB#4!





From the product brochure:
Ever striving for the sky, USB#4 promises increased headroom, greater capacity and more dynamic weight for a top floor performance,


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 16, 2017)

whirlwind said:


> Yeah, Zach's tuning is really nice, especially if you like a little more low end.
> 
> If you like acoustic music, the bass is just killer in many recordings.
> Really wonderful for some down and dirty blues.
> ...



A good point there ww. Sometime ago, a person on the Atticus and Eikon thread said that Elise didn't match well with these headphones. I think that put a lot of readers off Elise unfairly.

Yet now we have Zach who have a Euforia saying that it match perfectly with these headphones. Euforia is a super upgraded Elise but the sound characteristics are still there.

Even aornic says that Eikon pairs very well with these amps.

The morale of the story. Learn who to listen to and also to try it out for yourself.

I think the exact words were that Atticus and Eikon sounded muddy out of Elise.

Now I am sure if Atticus and Eikon sounded muddy with Elise and Euforia, Zach wouldn't have told me... 
_
With both those amps you'll certainly be getting the full potential from either the eikon or Atticus_.

Would he?


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 16, 2017)

Mordy, it looks like just 2 Mohicans left.

You take the front of the boat. I will take the back. Together we will row upstream. 

And row faster ! There are crocodiles behind !


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 16, 2017)

This is a personal opinion of HD800. In my humble opinion, having heard a plethora of headphones, I'm still of the opinion that HD800 is still the supreme headphone... for my ears. This last point is very important because there are preferences just as every human being looks different. You like curry, I like chicken rice, he likes pasta, etc, etc.

These are the headphones I've heard. When I said heard, I mean listened attentively even if it's a few minutes in a very quiet environment. DT880, DT990, DT770 HD600, HD650, AKG K701, 702, 812, T1, HE560, HE500, MrSpeaker Ether Flow C, Oppo PM1, Sony MDR Z1R, Focal Utopia, Elear, HD800, HD800S, Senn Momentum 2, PSB M4U2, Grado RS2E, PS500, SR325e, Stax SR-007, 009, Senn mini Orpheus HE6. Could be more but I won't list anymore... 

These are headphones I have owned. DT880, Audio Technica ath-m50x, HD650, T1, HE560, PSB M4U2, Sennheiser Momentum 2, HD650, HD800.

All the headphones were listened to on my Elise and Euforia. Out of all these headphones, (besides Utopia) the HD800 is my preferred choice. It's not perfect. I don't think any headphone is but it's the best of the lot to my ears.

However I am about to introduce ZMF Atticus and / or Eikon to my stable. I'll see which headphone gets more head time on me head after 1 year. Who knows, I might be a converted bass head.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Mordy, it looks like just 2 Mohicans left.
> 
> You take the front of the boat. I will take the back. Together we will row upstream.
> 
> And row faster ! There are crocodiles behind !



Too scary


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 16, 2017)

mordy said:


> Too scary



OMG, row FASTER .... Mordy !!! 

Now the preservation of these 2 precious Egytian artifacts (Elise and Euforia) rest on our unworthy shoulders. Like the hobbits in the Lord of the Rings, we have to carry these rings to Middle Earth. I am the good looking Frodo Braggins and you are the fatty Sam. Got it?

Let's move...

and watch out for Gollum... he's ugly.


----------



## UntilThen

I look back at my previous head-fi setup. Life was simpler then and it sounded good but there's no comparison with Yggy > Euforia > HD800 now. There's no return to the river of no returns. 

and those EL11 is reminder of my contaminated past....   can't say it didn't sound good though...


----------



## UntilThen

And when pictures matters more than sound.... heck at one time I have iMac on the desk too. That's 3 big screens !!!


----------



## UntilThen

@angpsi  it's 2 more likes for me to attain 'hero' status. Then I will retire.


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 16, 2017)

Now if Addicted To Audio don't come back to me in a week's time on my Ragnarok, I'll shoot them....

Should I get the Violectric V281 instead? I save $300 !!!

Which is better? Violectric V281 or Schiit Ragnorak? Any opinions? Both are balance monsters.


----------



## UntilThen

OMG I have 1000 likes. Please don't like anymore. I want it to stay at 1000. Such a nice number.


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## UntilThen

A millennium is 1000. It's a special number.

Some photos to prove why


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## UntilThen

Too late. I have 1001 likes now. Thanks Zach !!! 

I think of Atticus and Eikon at work. I even say it at project meeting. !!!

Except those guys don't know what they are !!!! Now if only they knew !!!

There were be no work done.


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## SnapperMusicFan

Went to Canjam 2017 on Sunday, met Lukasz, had a listen to Euforia  and Elise in direct comparison, Euforia is a major step up, they had it with some ok tubes not the standard set, but still sounded great. Tried it with the Focal
Elear's, and borrowed a pair of T1 Gen2's from the Beyer stand, the Beyers out strip the Elear's by quite a way with both amps. Planning to try something new later in the week, taking the Elise home to try it with my Rega PL3, Lehmann Black box + into two
Cyrus X Powers out to the LS50's. Looking forward to seeing how this will sound, so used to the Cyrus Pre DAC QX sound at home, will be great to  try some "tubey" sounds through the LS50's.


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## UntilThen (Jul 17, 2017)

SnapperMusicFan said:


> Went to Canjam 2017 on Sunday, met Lukasz, *had a listen to Euforia  and Elise in direct comparison, Euforia is a major step up*, they had it with some ok tubes not the standard set, but still sounded great. Tried it with the Focal
> Elear's, and borrowed a pair of T1 Gen2's from the Beyer stand, the Beyers out strip the Elear's by quite a way with both amps. Planning to try something new later in the week, taking the Elise home to try it with my Rega PL3, Lehmann Black box + into two
> Cyrus X Powers out to the LS50's. Looking forward to seeing how this will sound, so used to the Cyrus Pre DAC QX sound at home, will be great to  try some "tubey" sounds through the LS50's.



Your hearing is consistent with mine. How anyone can think that Elise sounded the same as or as good as Euforia, is beyond me. Euforia is definitely a big step up over Elise in the sound department.

I too prefer T1 over Elear or HD650. I just happen to prefer HD800 to all of them. Also depends by what you mean by 'out strip by quite a way'. HD800 and T1 will resolve much better than Elear or HD650 for that matter. It's a different sound signature. However, some just prefer the more relaxing and lusher tone of Elear or HD650. So what is your ideal tone isn't necessary the ideal tone for everyone.

However as I said, I too prefer resolution over lushness. It's just my preference. I do occasionally like to relax with my HD650 when all I want is to listen to music casually. After a few reds, you won't notice the difference anyway. 

Lastly, using Elise and Euforia as preamp is a great experience. Read back a few pages and see how enthusiastic I was using Euforia as a preamp to my stereo system.


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## UntilThen

Here's Jason Stoddard's reply to a mad USB decrapifier crazed world. He's on to a good thing. Sceptics of Schiit needn't bother. 

Jason knows his stuff and what he says makes complete sense.

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/s...bable-start-up.701900/page-1466#post-13605250


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## UntilThen (Jul 18, 2017)

So there is a flurry of activity from Schiit's fans. Everyone is scrambling to buy Eitr like their Schiit dacs are sounding like crap - literally. Pretty amazing.

Me? I will get Gen 5 on my Yggdrasil eventually but I'm not rushing in like the post Christmas sale. After all, I have never felt that my Yggy's USB Gen 3 is missing anything. I believe Jason though when he says that Gen 5 is a big improvement.

Gen 5 does this:-

Complete isolation of the USB power supplies (self-powered USB interface, requires no power from the computer.)
Complete isolation of the USB ground (grounds are not shared)
A total re-work of the USB interface, based on the CM6631A
High precision local re-clocking after isolation based on crystal oscillators running at two separate clock multiples for 44.1kHz and 48kHz-based sampling rates.

I will get Gen 5 but all in due time. When they introduced self install Gen 5 module boards.

Am I interested in Eitr? which is Gen 5 for USB to SPDIF conversion. Unlikely unless I need it for a non-Schiit dac.


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## Rossliew

@UntilThen have you received your Ragnarok? Eager to hear your impressions of it ..


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## UntilThen

Gday Ross. A2A still awaiting shipment from USA.

With the 3 recent hot releases from Schiit, it could be weeks before I get it.

Will post impressions when I get it.


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## Rossliew

Ahh thought they had it in their Melbourne store. Perhaps you should also consider the Vidar..ahem


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## SnapperMusicFan

UntilThen said:


> Your hearing is consistent with mine. How anyone can think that Elise sounded the same as or as good as Euforia, is beyond me. Euforia is definitely a big step up over Elise in the sound department.
> 
> I too prefer T1 over Elear or HD650. I just happen to prefer HD800 to all of them. Also depends by what you mean by 'out strip by quite a way'. HD800 and T1 will resolve much better than Elear or HD650 for that matter. It's a different sound signature. However, some just prefer the more relaxing and lusher tone of Elear or HD650. So what is your ideal tone isn't necessary the ideal tone for everyone.
> 
> ...



Hi UT,
It was reading back through this thread that gave me the idea to take the Elise home, so thanks for that. I felt the T1's had a more rounded - (not so upper mid strong as the Elears), resolving and transparent presentation. Listening to the Elears, I could see as quite fatiguing over a period of time. Seriously considering selling my Mr Speakers Aeons when they come back from the states for their retune....??? - Mr Speakers request! Then buying a pair of T1 Gen 2's. If the Experiment works with the Elise at home I'll then consider a Euforia for home...

New tubes on the way, a pair of Ken-Rad 6F8G's and a pair of Ken-Rad VT-231's, itching to try them with the Chatham 6080WB's which have to be my best purchase so far, I love their punchiness, the delivery and soundstage on the Elise is staggering
best I've heard yet...


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## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Ahh thought they had it in their Melbourne store. Perhaps you should also consider the Vidar..ahem



That's what A2A told me but apparently there's none in Melbourne. So the wait for the shipment from USA. I could cancel it I suppose and order a DNA Stratus instead but that would be a year's wait. Either way, I'm in no hurry. I have Euforia now and I can afford to wait.

How's Elise sounding?


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## UntilThen (Jul 19, 2017)

SnapperMusicFan said:


> Hi UT,
> It was reading back through this thread that gave me the idea to take the Elise home, so thanks for that. I felt the T1's had a more rounded - (not so upper mid strong as the Elears), resolving and transparent presentation. Listening to the Elears, I could see as quite fatiguing over a period of time. Seriously considering selling my Mr Speakers Aeons when they come back from the states for their retune....??? - Mr Speakers request! Then buying a pair of T1 Gen 2's. If the Experiment works with the Elise at home I'll then consider a Euforia for home...
> 
> New tubes on the way, a pair of Ken-Rad 6F8G's and a pair of Ken-Rad VT-231's, itching to try them with the Chatham 6080WB's which have to be my best purchase so far, I love their punchiness, the delivery and soundstage on the Elise is staggering
> best I've heard yet...



I have a pair of Bendix 6080wb and bought another pair of Chatham 608wb from @oshipao. Love the 6080wb. Exactly as you described... punchiness, bass weight and soundstage. I can't get enough of these graphite plates.

Look forward to your impressions of the Ken Rad 6F8G and Ken Rad VT231.

I only had a very short listen of Elear on Euforia at the meet. Although I love it for those fleeting moments, I can't say if I'll be happy for the long term. I might because it sounded more enjoyable than HD650.

I thought the T1 Gen 1 sounded great on Elise and Euforia but a bit thin and sharp, not in an unpleasant way. However, I think the T1 G2 might be a better fit for most people, including probably me. I do find the HD800 to be superbly sounding with Elise and Euforia. There's more density of tone and larger soundstage compared to T1. Btw I rather refer it as headstage because soundstage really belongs to speakers.

I think you will love Elise as preamp in your home stereo. The tube preamp dials in very nice tube tones.

Thanks for your feedback and sharing.

Ps... you keep your Elise so clean. That's how it should be.  Also Daft Punk on your screen ... great for testing tubes.


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## UntilThen (Jul 19, 2017)

Rossliew said:


> Perhaps you should also consider the Vidar..ahem



Why? 

I am not migrating over to stereo completely yet. Most of my listening is still with headphones. So Ragnarok makes sense rather than a Vidar. Never had a mono bloc before though. My most powerful amp is a Denon at 100 watts into 8 ohms.

I might do something wicked. Use Euforia as preamp to Ragnarok for headphone listening... need to check this out.


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## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> That's what A2A told me but apparently there's none in Melbourne. So the wait for the shipment from USA. I could cancel it I suppose and order a DNA Stratus instead but that would be a year's wait. Either way, I'm in no hurry. I have Euforia now and I can afford to wait.
> 
> How's Elise sounding?


Just started a listen not too long ago..pairs well with my hD600s but sounding a bit metallic with the T1. Could be the tubes/DAC/cables..gonna switch to the Bimby and see how it fares.


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## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> Why?
> 
> I am not migrating over to stereo completely yet. Most of my listening is still with headphones. So Ragnarok makes sense rather than a Vidar. Never had a mono bloc before though. My most powerful amp is a Denon at 100 watts into 8 ohms.
> 
> I might do something wicked. Use Euforia as preamp to Ragnarok for headphone listening... need to check this out.



Fair point..as to the Euforia as pre-amp, i would say thats a splendid idea although the gain may be a tad high with lesser volume play on your Euforia?


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## ostewart

Never have been too much of a fan of the HD650, due to it's lack of top end (bit of a treble head here), but I must say for kicking back and enjoying this pairing is very good, and the iFi tubes really bring out some treble detail so they don't sound as dark as they normally do, actually enjoying this pairing quite a lot....

The HD650's are borrowed from work for the evening.

Feliks Audio Espressivo with 6N6P-I power tubes and iFi Audio NOS 6922 driver tubes


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## UntilThen (Jul 19, 2017)

Hi Ross @Rossliew , thanks for the feedback. I shall share your first impressions (to me) of Elise and those few tubes here, as I believe it will benefit the wider community. It's an accurate description without hyperbole. I like it.

1st comment
_Listening to the amp now with the 7236/Tung Sol 6SN7 Mouse ears combo and my T1...a bit metallic and lean sounding. Shall let it warm up sufficiently since it may be suffering from some mild jet lag 

Otherwise, its performing admirably _

2nd comment
_Using the Chatham 6520 and my Siemens C3G combo with the HD600 = perfect tonality to these ears. Punchy, authoritative and correct sounding bass, correct midrange tonality and clear yet not strident highs. Bad at describing the sound but it sounds just RIGHT with the HD600. Not too bad with the T1s as well but the mids remain subdued as if it has fallen into a sinkhole.._

I am happy that Elise and the first batch of tubes reach you safe and sound. Furthermore I am happy that you did find some perfect synergy of Elise with the right tubes and HD600. Presumably using your Bimby?

Tung Sol 7236 has been described as sounding metallic before. I think with the wrong setup, it can sound that way. With HD650 which is a warmer headphone, things will be different.

Try the Valvo c3g/s - see if you hear any difference with your Siemens C3G non 'S' version. 

Anyway, enjoy and provide more feedback as the other tubes arrive.

Cheers


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## UntilThen

ostewart said:


> Never have been too much of a fan of the HD650, due to it's lack of top end (bit of a treble head here), but I must say for kicking back and enjoying this pairing is very good, and the iFi tubes really bring out some treble detail so they don't sound as dark as they normally do, actually enjoying this pairing quite a lot....
> 
> The HD650's are borrowed from work for the evening.
> 
> Feliks Audio Espressivo with 6N6P-I power tubes and iFi Audio NOS 6922 driver tubes



Great feedback there Stewart. Despite having HD800 and T1, I am still a fan of HD650. There are times I wish I hadn't mod my HD650. The original sound is warm and to some even a bit dark but is HD650 signature sound, which I like with blues. As you described, it's great for relaxing and that's what we do at the end of the day. 

Espressivo is one tube amp that I don't have the pleasure of hearing. Looks like a great performer at a great price. Not to mention a great looker.


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## UntilThen

This is my synergy now. A pair of reasonably priced tubes on Euforia. Psvane 6sn7 and Rca 6as7g. With Yggy and HD800, the sound is just right, paraphrasing @Rossliew 's comments. 

Yggy and HD800 can sound too dynamic if paired with bright tubes, so Rca 6as7g, Gec 6as7g and Bendix 6080wb are welcome candidates here. This is what I like about Elise and Euforia. It's a great tube sound and a price point all can afford and enjoy.

Like a few others, I still reckon HD800 as my most enjoyable headphone. Details, layering, soundstage and in the right setup, even punchy bass !


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## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Fair point..as to the Euforia as pre-amp, i would say thats a splendid idea although the gain may be a tad high with lesser volume play on your Euforia?



Don't know till I try it. It would sound nuts to pair Euforia with Ragnarok but it would be purely for fun and who knows, it might surprise me. I will most likely be using Yggy and Rag in balanced mode with HD800 and HD650.

Even Ragnarok can be use as a preamp.... so the other way round?


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## Rossliew

Thanks for sharing my thoughts, Matt. Last night's listening session was sublime indeed. And yes it was paired with the Bimby. Shall try out your Valvos tonight then. 

Can't wait for the rest of the tubes to arrive!


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## Rossliew

I found that my Parasound Zdac version 1 paired even better with my gears including the Elise. But the key factor in achieving this synergistic sound was the Moon Audio silver dragon digital coax cable. It brought out the details, dynamics, air and body to the tunes and especially made the tonality realistic/natural sounding. Irrespective of tube combos used. Having said that the Tung Sol 7236 still sounds a tad metallic but with the Parasound Dac, the midrange magic came back even with the T1s! 

This seems to be the magical Dac that I needed to bring the magic back into my system. And it is consistent with my other amps as well - Dynalo MK 2 and Carbon. Hmm..Bimby may be put up for sale..


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## UntilThen (Jul 21, 2017)

Who would have known that Parasound Zdac v1 and Moon Audio silver dragon coax cable takes your Elise to the next level.

As with everything, it's about synergy. Only you and your ears will determine what's best for you. Also what's best for you can only be conclusively determined in the long term. The problem is as soon as you have determined that you have the ideal system, along comes another that will take your breath away. Why do you think that this industry is continuing to boom? 

That said, there will be a few old favourites that will stand the test of time for many years.

Btw EL3Ns x 8 have arrived at your destination but without the adapters, all you can do is admire their looks.


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## Rossliew

Oh I have not checked the tracking yet. Guess I'll have to wait for the final package then. The existing tubes are great sounding as it is. Probably try some 6sn7s tonight..


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## Rossliew

Listening with the Chatham 6520/Valvo C3GS combo with the HD600...sublime! The midrange magic of tubes is bombarding my senses with a kaleidoscope of techicolor explosions..so immersive, so emotional, so soul wrenching! What more can i say? Perhaps i should just sell off my Stax/Carbon rig..


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## Rossliew

Swapping out the Parasound with the Mojo offers a airier experience yet no less musical..it becomes almost like the haze was wiped off the windows..funny considering that the Mojo is touted to be warm sounding. Nonetheless, this is another mystery of audio component matching. Seems to work fine with my rig and this with generic Ace hardware cables..


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## UntilThen (Jul 21, 2017)

Rossliew said:


> Listening with the Chatham 6520/Valvo C3GS combo with the HD600...sublime! The midrange magic of tubes is bombarding my senses with a kaleidoscope of techicolor explosions..so immersive, so emotional, so soul wrenching! What more can i say? Perhaps i should just sell off my Stax/Carbon rig..



Damm now I regret selling all that to you. 

I have described this many times but I will describe it one more time. When I received Elise back in 27th Oct 2015, I had the Lorenz C3g and Tung Sol 5998 ready and primed, together with my stock HD650 then. I put on my first song, 'Money For Nothing' by Dire Straits. This was my reaction.



.... and this was the song.


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## Rossliew

I'm trippin' here dude!...


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## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> I'm trippin' here dude!...



Hmmmm..... sell it back to me now ! 

.... or I will be tripping.


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## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> Hmmmm..... sell it back to me now !
> 
> .... or I will be tripping.



Or i may just swap it for your Euforia


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## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Or i may just swap it for your Euforia



Don't even think about it or I will be tripping endlessly. I haven't shown you the rest of my nuggets. Vintage tubes from the 40s, 50s and 60s. You have to rob me to get it off me but I have it insured !!!


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## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> Don't even think about it or I will be tripping endlessly. I haven't shown you the rest of my nuggets. Vintage tubes from the 40s, 50s and 60s. You have to rob me to get it off me but I have it insured !!!


You'll sell them to me when you sell off your Euforia for your Raggy..<hypnotic gaze>


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## UntilThen

Ross, I have been tripping since 2 months ago when I got Yggy > Euforia and HD800 together. Today, Yggy have been left powered on for 2 months and 1 day. There was never a night I didn't sit down to listen to music. 

You know the saying, 'Use your gear to listen to music'. Too right but it might be too much of a good thing.

... and you know what? I'm going to A2A in the morning to audition Violectric V281 with Yggdrasil again.... and also to listen to Woo Audio Wa22 for the first time. See? I have an open mind.


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## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> You'll sell them to me when you sell off your Euforia for your Raggy..<hypnotic gaze>



Sure if the day comes, I shall hand over the reins of this thread to you and you will be Feliks Audio new found champion..... and you get a free trip to Poland. 

However, I will always have one tube amp and one ss amp. This is the plan since the dawn of time. Nothing will change it. At heart I still love vinyl and tube amps.


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## mordy

Listening to the Elise now: TEN(Channel Master) 6SN7GTB with a pair of RCA 6AS7G using the T1 Gen1.

Don't have the inclination to sell the Elise - it is such a great back-up for the Euforia. 

Saw in a recent post that the British call the Euforia "The Four". Or, for you car fans: *The Audio Quattro*!






Every morning I have to check three different Feliks threads - can't remember any more which one I am posting on. Hope this is the right one....

Or is it four threads?


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## UntilThen (Jul 21, 2017)

mordy said:


> Don't have the inclination to sell the Elise - it is such a great back-up for the Euforia.



I agree. I have no inclination to sell Elise but Ross made me an offer I cannot refuse.... or is it the other way round?  Seriously though, it gives me great pleasure that he is enjoying it so much now. If it had sit here as a back up, I would feel guilty.

Elise and Euforia has a wetness to the tone that makes it so enjoyable. It's never dry. Coupled with fast transient response and a just right warm / lushness, It's the quintessence tube amp sound. At the prices they are selling, it won't kill any baby seals.


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## Rossliew

Thanks Matt for the wonderful deal on the Elise. Indeed it's a killer amp for the money and I dare not imagine how much better the Euforia would sound. I'll leave that for another day. 

Let us know your impressions of the V281 vs the WA22. Am sure both would tickle your fancy but personally I'd go for the Woo just for the looks alone. If I recall correctly even on stock tubes it sounded sublime with the LCD3 so one can imagine how aftermarket tubes would make it scale. Or maybe just go straight to the WA5?


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## UntilThen (Jul 22, 2017)

I went to Addicted To Audio this morning as I said. I listened to 2 amps. In both instances, a black Yggdrasil and a HD800 with Cardas 4pin balanced xlr cable were used. Xlr interconnects between Yggy and the amps were from JPS Labs Super Conductor Q interconnects. Top end gear and cables. Cardas HD800 balance cable is $1059. JPS Labs Super Conductor Q is $865. Violectric V281 is $2699. Woo Audio Wa22 is $2999. All in Aussie dollars.

*Violectric V281*.
From the first track of a jazz piece, I was stunned by the clarity and details. It sounded a bit warm. Only a bit. I read that the V281 in SE mode is warmer but in balance mode it's less warm and has greater definition. So good was the sound reaching my ears, I couldn't believe it. Maybe the expensive cables are something after all or V281 with Yggy and HD800 in balanced mode is simply sensational. I thought to myself... I could give up tube amp for this amp. It's that's good in this setup.

This coming Sunday, I will make another and final trip to A2A because I was told that Ragnarok will be in by then. I will audition Rag one more time with Yggy and HD800 in balanced mode. Unless Ragnarok did something special for me, I'll be getting the V281.

*Woo Audio Wa22*.
After an hour with V281, I ask Tom the salesman to switch the amp to Wa22. Oh boy, was I surprised. Never will I underestimate Woo Audio again. The Wa22 competes with the V281 for dynamics and realism. This is not an OTL amp but it sure sounded very musical and detailed. I glanced that the drivers used were Sylvania 6sn7 and the power tubes were probably Gec 6080. I don't know anything about rectifiers but it sure look nice. After 30 mins, I had to stop. I came here to audition a capable ss amp but this tube amp is starting to steal the show. So I ask Tom to switch back to V281 again.

I need to be sure that the V281 sounded better to my ears than the Wa22. On the 2nd listen, It's quite clear to my ears that I much prefer V281. It's has speed, it has guts, it has slam and it has delicacy. The power delivery seems effortless. I could crank up the volume and it still sounded pleasant to my ears. This amp makes the balance HD800 sing in a most euphonic way. I was captivated and almost sold on it..... together with those expensive cables. 

I didn't want to make a decision then. I told Tom I'll be back next Sunday to listen to Ragnarok and I will have a decision by the end of it.

I guess you want to know how Euforia stacks up against these 2 amps. Back home now and listening to Yggy, Euforia and HD800, I have to say that I still very much enjoy this sound, especially with my better tubes. It's just a lot more tubey sound compared to the other 2. However I cannot deny the fact that my mind keeps thinking about Violectric V281.... it's that good.







Ps... I almost wanted to steal that black Yggdrasil.


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## whirlwind

That is some great gear


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## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> That is some great gear



It's making my head spin. Visiting Addicted To Audio is dangerous. I saw a young man on the other side of the showroom, listening to all the good headphones. One at a time.... HD800S, Utopia, Mr Speaker Ether C, LCD4, Audeze LCD-X, Enigmacoustics Dharma, Fostex TH-900mk2, etc. 

I should have tried some of those headphones too but then I will be there the whole day !!!


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## Rossliew

That V281 is something huh. Bet the wa22 holds its own as well. Tell you what, just get both


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## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> That V281 is something huh. Bet the wa22 holds its own as well. Tell you what, just get both



Yeah right.... I ain't Bill.

There was a Woo Audio Wa5 there too.... at $8899, I dare not listen to it. I am leaving it for you.


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## attmci

Rossliew said:


> That V281 is something huh. Bet the wa22 holds its own as well. Tell you what, just get both



You must be kidding.  It's very unwise to upgrade in such a way.  Maybe I shouldn't say that.


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## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> Yeah right.... I ain't Bill.
> 
> There was a Woo Audio Wa5 there too.... at $8899, I dare not listen to it. I am leaving it for you.



If you would be so kind to help post it to me I may just pick it up


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## Rossliew

Just did a double take that's the cost of a BHSE! I'd rather pick that up instead lol


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## UntilThen

Brian was impressed with the V281 and HD800 and LCD3. He likes it too.

Ross in that video, he talks about the Woo Audio WA-234 mono blocs. I will send those to you. It's selling for $23,999.


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## UntilThen (Jul 22, 2017)

Ok I'm going to detox. I will sell everything and go back to a simpler life with my iPod and earbud.

Do you know how good looking the Cardas cable is? It's a knockout. I will get @attmci  to buy for me.




and do you know how good looking the JPS Labs Super Conductor Q xlr cable is?


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## Rossliew

Sell your yggy to me please. And the Euforia tubes as well. First dibs yeah  might as well get your hd800 too. 

Wa234 mono blocks? Nah too flashy for me. I'll make do with the BHSE , is all I need


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## UntilThen (Jul 22, 2017)

Rossliew said:


> Sell your yggy to me please. And the Euforia tubes as well. First dibs yeah  might as well get your hd800 too.



Yggy and HD800 balanced are building blocks for me now. Those 2 items paired very well with these amps that I heard recently. Euforia, La Figaro 339, Woo Audio Wa22, Violectric v281 and Ragnarok. With Rag I need to listen again. I think it would need to pair with warmer headphones for better synergy. However, it did sound lovely even with HD800.

I wasn't sold on the balance hype before but hearing HD800 balanced in Wa22 and v281, convinced me that the soundstage is wider, better instruments placing, more holographic tone. Tonally, it is much better. It's clearer, blacker and quieter. It's no longer a hype for me now. I will have to convert my headphones to balance for v281 or Rag. More expenses. 

I need to qualify that my belief in balance applies only to amps specifically designed for it. Just evaluating a SE amp vs a balanced amp itself is meaningless. I'm sure there would be better sounding SE amps than balanced amps. Such as the Apex High Fi Audio Teton .... at $5000. 

The day I sell my almost complete set of essential 6as7 / 6080, would be a sad day for me. It is a collection spanning almost 2 years and most of them are NOS and brand new when I got it. Still very low mileage. They are my pride and joy. I am using 'cheaper' RCA 6as7g now for daily listening.


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## UntilThen

The Teton is one amp that gets much praise from most of the audio reviewers at Big Sound 2015 Inner Fidelity. A tube amp that doesn't sound like your typical tube amp. Must be something.


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## MIKELAP

Rossliew said:


> That V281 is something huh. Bet the wa22 holds its own as well. Tell you what, just get both


I own a WA22 and a Burson Conductor SS amp and it is nice to own both flavors as mordy would put it .


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## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> The Teton is one amp that gets much praise from most of the audio reviewers at Big Sound 2015 Inner Fidelity. A tube amp that doesn't sound like your typical tube amp. Must be something.


Add a Glenn otl to that list. You ain't heard nothing till you've heard a Glenn


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## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> Yggy and HD800 balanced are building blocks for me now. Those 2 items paired very well with these amps that I heard recently. Euforia, La Figaro 339, Woo Audio Wa22, Violectric v281 and Ragnarok. With Rag I need to listen again. I think it would need to pair with warmer headphones for better synergy. However, it did sound lovely even with HD800.
> 
> I wasn't sold on the balance hype before but hearing HD800 balanced in Wa22 and v281, convinced me that the soundstage is wider, better instruments placing, more holographic tone. Tonally, it is much better. It's clearer, blacker and quieter. It's no longer a hype for me now. I will have to convert my headphones to balance for v281 or Rag. More expenses.
> 
> ...


Could the sound improvement be due to the aftermarket cables rather than the balanced topology? Honestly from my personal experience balanced just got me a higher listening volume if everything else remains unchanged .


----------



## Rossliew

MIKELAP said:


> I own a WA22 and a Burson Conductor SS amp and it is nice to own both flavors as mordy would put it .


Indeed Mike. Nice to have both for some variety. Perhaps a dynalo would be a good addition too


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Could the sound improvement be due to the aftermarket cables rather than the balanced topology? Honestly from my personal experience balanced just got me a higher listening volume if everything else remains unchanged .



Not just volume. Balance will awaken your senses.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Add a Glenn otl to that list. You ain't heard nothing till you've heard a Glenn



Would be nice but after this ss amp, my buying spree needs a break.


----------



## UntilThen

MIKELAP said:


> I own a WA22 and a Burson Conductor SS amp and it is nice to own both flavors as mordy would put it .



I will be having 2 flavours too. It will be Euforia and v281 or Ragnarok. 

Like having curry rice with 2 dishes.


----------



## MIKELAP

UntilThen said:


> I went to Addicted To Audio this morning as I said. I listened to 2 amps. In both instances, a black Yggdrasil and a HD800 with Cardas 4pin balanced xlr cable were used. Xlr interconnects between Yggy and the amps were from JPS Labs Super Conductor Q interconnects. Top end gear and cables. Cardas HD800 balance cable is $1059. JPS Labs Super Conductor Q is $865. Violectric V281 is $2699. Woo Audio Wa22 is $2999. All in Aussie dollars.
> 
> *Violectric V281*.
> From the first track of a jazz piece, I was stunned by the clarity and details. It sounded a bit warm. Only a bit. I read that the V281 in SE mode is warmer but in balance mode it's less warm and has greater definition. So good was the sound reaching my ears, I couldn't believe it. Maybe the expensive cables are something after all or V281 with Yggy and HD800 in balanced mode is simply sensational. I thought to myself... I could give up tube amp for this amp. It's that's good in this setup.
> ...





UntilThen said:


> I will be having 2 flavours too. It will be Euforia and v281 or Ragnarok.
> 
> Like having curry rice with 2 dishes.


A guy on the Woo thread owns a V281 and a WA22 and he really likes his V281 .Also the rectifier in the Woo looks to be the stock chinese 274B if im not mistaken .A popular rectifier is the 596 used with adapters


----------



## UntilThen

MIKELAP said:


> A guy on the Woo thread owns a V281 and a WA22 and he really likes his V281 .Also the rectifier in the Woo looks to be the stock chinese 274B if im not mistaken .A popular rectifier is the 596 used with adapters



Yup I spoke to Badas on the v281 thread. He does love v281 and complained about occasional hum on his Wa22 which is a surprise to me because I heard no hum at all.

I really like the tone of v281. Its a cross between an ss amp and a tube amp. Kind of like the best of both worlds.


----------



## MIKELAP

UntilThen said:


> Yup I spoke to Badas on the v281 thread. He does love v281 and complained about occasional hum on his Wa22 which is a surprise to me because I heard no hum at all.
> 
> I really like the tone of v281. Its a cross between an ss amp and a tube amp. Kind of like the best of both worlds.


The hum in is amp was mostly tube related some of my tubes have hum also like the 6F8G/6C8G tubes .Not all my tubes but some but it is not loud tried the ferrite chokes on the adapter wire and  it helped


----------



## Rossliew

@UntilThen just get the WA22 and V281/Ragnarok. No need for pain of choosing


----------



## UntilThen

Nope. For me to replace Euforia it has to be the likes of the DNA Stratus. Something a bit more different.

I read good things about the Stratus pairing with HD800.


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 23, 2017)

Would love to hear the DNA Stratus and Eddie Current Zana Deux Super but I don't know of anyone here having those amps.


----------



## UntilThen

The truth is I don't need to change my amps anymore. Euforia and v281 or Ragnarok is more than sufficient for my ears.


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> The truth is I don't need to change my amps anymore. Euforia and v281 or Ragnarok is more than sufficient for my ears.


Indeed. You just need a different presentation of sonics I.e. Electrostatics


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Indeed. You just need a different presentation of sonics I.e. Electrostatics



I am not really sold on electrostatics yet. I don't think I could live on Blue Hawaii and Stax SR-007 alone at this point in time. I still love slam, power and the glory.

When I listen to 'Temple of the king' by Rainbow, i want some meatballs with it. The hairs on my hands needs to rise.


----------



## Rossliew

Hahahaha meatballs - I like the description. I would want you to believe you can get meatballs with stax as well..


----------



## UntilThen

I would be lying if I say I didn't enjoy what I am hearing now. Euforia is keeping rhythm with Yggy and HD800. No shortcomings here. It would take a man with very demanding requirements not to be satisfied with this. 

True, when I heard Woo Audio Wa22 yesterday, it sounded stellar. It's another presentation. It's a leaner tone but engaging none the less. Like I say, it's a different presentation. Certainly a very handsome looking tube amp but so is the price. It's $2999 aussie dollars. That's at least $1000 more than Euforia. If I think that it is not worth my 'bitcoins' to upgrade to that, then what I am saying is that the difference isn't day and night..... to my ears.  

So kudos to Feliks Audio. Euforia still stacks up mighty fine I reckon.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Hahahaha meatballs - I like the description. I would want you to believe you can get meatballs with stax as well..



If you buy Blue Hawaii and Stax SR-007 and let me have it for a month playing Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Uriah Heep and Metallica .... then I will let you know if it has meatballs. 

The only song I heard on the Stax is 'Pink Panther'....


----------



## UntilThen

Ross, buy Yggy. 2 months after I got Yggy, I still feel it's the most significant item in my chain. I have never heard anything like it. As comforting as vinyl but as penetrating as laser. There's bass in this tree. Tight, controlled and impactful bass. 

When I had the v281 added to the chain yesterday, it was a turning point for the allies... sorry thinking of WW2 here but you get the drift.


----------



## UntilThen

Ross, I took this picture at A2A yesterday for you, to show that I'm not Schiit biased. 

It's a Metrum Menuet and it's $4288 at A2A. This is a pretty good dac too. You should consider it.


----------



## Rossliew

Thanks for the pics, Matt. I've read good things about the Metrum and it's R2R architecture but it's pricey for me. 

Btw do you leave your yggy on 24/7? Even when no ones at home? I have a fear something may happen accidentally..


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 23, 2017)

I left a lot of my home appliances on 24/7, so what's one more dac. My refrigerator consumes more electricity. Besides Schiit recommends that Yggy be left on always.

Even my PC is left on all the time !

Edit:- I added a smiley


----------



## Rossliew

AHh ok...worth a try then


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 23, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> The truth is I don't need to change my amps anymore. Euforia and v281 or Ragnarok is more than sufficient for my ears.



Problem with this statement is choosing an ss amp with giant meatballs isn't as easy as you think.. The v281 and Rag has it in abundance (meatballs) and it comes free with your main dish.

I woke up from an afternoon nap, with this picture in my mind..... the appeal of this combo's 'looks' is very strong, there's no denying. If I get Rag, I can even feed a signal to my subwoofer. So the appeal of driving my Axis LS28 and sub is very strong. Once you immerse in that, who cares about any TOTL headphones in balanced or SE mode. I just have to be careful watching 'Saving Private Ryan'. The vibrations might be too much, even for Tom Hanks.



Then I watch Tyll's insight into v281 and Rag on the Big Sound 2015 wrap up on amps. Now these 2 amps didn't feature prominently in Big Sound 2015. Most of the participants like other amps more, whether it's cheaper or more expensive. Usually the latter. Ok I don't need to follow their recommendations. If I did, I'll go broke.  So between these 2 amps, what was Tyll's impressions? Wow... he seems to like v281 more than Rag. Ok Tyll, if you are wrong, you gonna have to pay my amp. 

SO! As of now, I am still 'undecided' on v281 or Rag. It's a good position to be in.

Now watch Tyll....


----------



## Rossliew

I would probably say the Rag is more neutral sounding, kinda similar to the GSX Mk II as DubStep Girl reviews it. Did A2A have the GSX on audition? You should try that as well. 

But, if the flexibility of having a speaker amp to drive your 2 channel setup is top of your priorities then stop mulling, just get the Rag.


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 23, 2017)

They do have the GSX Mk II but I didn't want to listen to it. I know it's a 'brighter' tone but very revealing. I also know it's more than double the price of Ragnarok. So I rather not hear it....

Problem is 2 channel setup isn't my priority. I listen to headphones much more.

Here's a story worth telling. I first listened to the Violectric v281 in the Sydney 2016 meet. The owner brought just that one dac/amp. Yes with the v281, you can have the option of including dac for a price. Furthermore, he brought a whole Christmas tree of headphones. More than 20 headphones. I was puzzled. So I ask him what's this fetish with so many headphones. Well he explained that he has found the one amp that will drive any headphones, bar electrostatics. So he just keep buying headphones as time goes on. He loves listening to different headphone on his 'one' amp.

That meet, I listened to his balance Beyer T1, Gen1 on the v281. Sounded a bit like tube amp and I like it very much.

Btw if you listen to v281 in SE mode, you are only using half the amp.  There are 2 transformers and both operate together in balance mode.


----------



## UntilThen

I know why I want an ss amp to go with my tube amp. I power on my Euforia at least 4 times in a day. If I do this over 2 years, there probably wouldn't be a switch left.


----------



## Rossliew

Lol..it sure does look like the V281 would make a better SS headamp for you but if you need the versatility for speakers then the Rag is the way to go. Or else just get a pair of Vidars and use the Euforia as pre-amp and drive your HD800 off the speaker taps..


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> I know why I want an ss amp to go with my tube amp. I power on my Euforia at least 4 times in a day. If I do this over 2 years, there probably wouldn't be a switch left.


Hi UT,

Here is the answer to saving the on/off switch:




Just leave your amp switch on, and use the red on/off switch on the power outlet strip. I believe that some wall outlets in Australia even have their own on/off switch built in.





Hi Rl,
I just sold a ss phono preamp that I hadn't used in years. It does not have an on/off switch, and I realized that it had been plugged in for some 20 years (!) without any problems. The power draw is only 5W, so it did not cost much in electricity either.....


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Here is the answer to saving the on/off switch:



Personally I believe that one ought to power off the amp first before switching off the power board or wall unit. However, that's my layman's brain thinking.


----------



## UntilThen

I am nursing a delicious viral infection at the moment. Felt sick like a bird. With one week to go before I decide on an ss amp, this monster has entered the fray. At 16kgs and cheaper than both Violectric v281 and Ragnarok, this beast is build like an aircraft carrier. The technological might from KingWa. However, being class A, it will make my study too warm, even for winter.

.... and I will be more sick.... contemplating another amp lol. This thing cost $200 for shipping by DHL from China.

My only reservation is that, revealing as the amp is, it might be too neutral bright for my ears. Comparisons have been made with GSX MkII for similar tonality.


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 23, 2017)

Rossliew said:


> Lol..it sure does look like the V281 would make a better SS headamp for you but if you need the versatility for speakers then the Rag is the way to go. Or else just get a pair of Vidars and use the Euforia as pre-amp and drive your HD800 off the speaker taps..



Did you not hear what I say? I'm deliciously sick at the moment. Bringing Vidars into the discussion might just tip the scale and trigger a global war. 

I know I should have kept my JDS Lab o2/odac. It's cheap, painless. Who cares if your violins sounds like chainsaw? Ok... might be a bit harsh here lol.


----------



## Spork67

Hey UT.
My Stax setup is only midrange stuff, and slams well enough for me.



UntilThen said:


> If you buy Blue Hawaii and Stax SR-007 and let me have it for a month playing Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Uriah Heep and Metallica .... then I will let you know if it has meatballs.
> 
> The only song I heard on the Stax is 'Pink Panther'....



Plenty of Led Zep and Metallica in my playlists, and a little Deep Purple. My T1 + 404LE work well with rock and metal.

I see you mentioned Bitcoin earlier. Are you interested in cryptocurrencies? Or was that just a play on words for money spent on converting (digital) bits to analogue?

I'm hoping some modest investments in BTC will buy me a BHSE + 007s one of these days.


----------



## UntilThen

Spork67 said:


> Hey UT.
> My Stax setup is only midrange stuff, and slams well enough for me.
> 
> 
> ...



Play of words.  You obviously love Stax and there's a good following. I don't deny that it will play other genres as well but imo it's not their strength.

For pure impact and slam, it's hard to beat dynamic headphones though. What I heard at A2A, with Yggy > v281 > balanced HD800, had my adrenaline going. Never heard the HD800 scale that way. Now I need a bass hungry planar magnetic to stir my senses. 

I think it's all coming together. I don't envisage buying Audio Gd 9, without an audition. Reviews have painted it as a TOTL amp. Perhaps but I can't imagine that sitting on my desk with Yggy. There will be no space left. This is a picture of the Audio Gd 5 series dac and amp. You can see how big they are. Massive !!! Yup I heard these at a meet in 2016 but the Series 5 is supposed to be lean and it feels that way. However with HD800S in balanced mode on, it turns into a musical machine. The 9 is different tonally. It's supposed to be more full bodied.


----------



## UntilThen

A guy on the v281 thread had the V850/V281 combo. He likes it but yearns for a tube amp as he never has one.

Well here I am, a tube amp lover, looking for an ss amp. We could be trading places. It's a strange strange world. 

I agree with @MIKELAP . Good to have both flavours.


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 24, 2017)

Rossliew said:


> But, if the flexibility of having a speaker amp to drive your 2 channel setup is top of your priorities then stop mulling, just get the Rag.



Ross I have the Sherwood and powerbloc Denon receivers for driving my speakers. The Denon has real grunt. It will drive a truck. So yeah, getting an amp to drive speakers is not a priority now. 

You would have seen me introducing Yggy as dac and Euforia as preamp to my speakers and sub. Very very enjoyable.

If I get v281, I could use it for preamp duties too. Of course I'd be curious to see how Raganork stacks up against my Sherwood of Nottingham Forest in the sonics department.

What I don't understand is why Ragnarok is so expensive from A2A. It's US$1699 in Schiit USA online order but at A2A, it's AUD$2950. How does that exchange rate works? Someone is marking up Rag big time here.


----------



## Rossliew

It's the shipping cost and customs taxes and profits added on top? But can you order direct from schiit?


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## UntilThen (Jul 24, 2017)

Buying from A2A means everything is inclusive. You don't need to pay shipping, custom taxes and when the unit is defective, just take it back to them for warranty repairs. I think it's then that I have to pay shipping but A2A will co-ordinate everything.

I can order direct from Schiit but I have to pay for shipping and custom taxes and hope that your gear survive the journey intact.

Pros and cons but I rather deal with a store where I've build a rapport with the sales staff. You can try any gear you want without charge. 

I think it's the Rag's weight that adds to the shipping cost and who knows how much custom taxes I'll be slugged with. If I buy Audio Gd 9, shipping will be US$200 by DHL. Just pray that you don't have to send it back for repairs.


----------



## Rossliew

I've had no issues with shipping from schiit save for the customs taxes I've always been imposed. The amp is packed pretty sturdily so I wouldn't be worried about that. I've even shipped it back for repairs once with a dead Vali2 on arrival but schiit have paid the return shipping plus taxes . So it's been a pleasant experience dealing with them.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Ross I have the Sherwood and powerbloc Denon receivers for driving my speakers. The Denon has real grunt. It will drive a truck. So yeah, getting an amp to drive speakers is not a priority now.
> 
> You would have seen me introducing Yggy as dac and Euforia as preamp to my speakers and sub. Very very enjoyable.
> 
> ...




While I believe that the Rag is a fine amp, I don't think there would be any way in the world someone could talk me into buying one for $2950 and this is nothing against the Rag, but against the price of it.

At that price way to many more amps come into the fray.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> While I believe that the Rag is a fine amp, I don't think there would be any way in the world someone could talk me into buying one for $2950 and this is nothing against the Rag, but against the price of it.
> 
> At that price way to many more amps come into the fray.



$2950 is aussie dollars and no need to worry about shipping cost and custom taxes.  However that's still US$2348. It's a lot of money.


----------



## whirlwind (Jul 24, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> $2950 is aussie dollars and no need to worry about shipping cost and custom taxes.  However that's still US$2348. It's a lot of money.



Especially for a $1700 amp..again, nothing against the Rag it is a very popular amp for $1700 and rightly so, but even at $2350, it starts to lose it's appeal for a nice bang for the buck.


----------



## UntilThen

Somehow v281 is discounted. Getting out of fashion? lol. I really like the voicing of v281. Besides Euforia, I find the v281 to be almost perfect with HD800 in balanced mode. 

I'm late to the party. Both Ragnarok and v281 have been out for several years. I just see these amps being able to drive any headphones I can throw at it, barring Stax.

Too much power in the hands of a audio enthusiast can be a dangerous thing. These amps have power.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Especially for a $1700 amp..again, nothing against the Rag it is a very popular amp for $1700 and rightly so, but even at $2350, it starts to lose it's appeal for a nice bang for the buck.



You are lucky Joe. Everything I buy is more expensive because I live in Australia. I'm sucked into this hobby big time though. It's so rewarding to get these crazily good tones. I'm surprised I got into head-fi so late.... but it's never too late.


----------



## whirlwind

You Aussie's need to find a local to make amps


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> You are lucky Joe. Everything I buy is more expensive because I live in Australia. I'm sucked into this hobby big time though. It's so rewarding to get these crazily good tones. I'm surprised I got into head-fi so late.... but it's never too late.




I am just finding this out, did not realize the difference in price was so big.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> You Aussie's need to find a local to make amps



We have some legends here. Ever heard of Halcro? 
http://halcro.com/about-us/

Where head-fi is concerned, I can think of Burson amps. Of course China is closer to us and they are churning out top class r2r dacs faster than the speed of light.  

Like your Holo Spring Level 3 Kitsune dac


----------



## whirlwind

No, I have never heard of Halcro, have you checked in with them Matt ?


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 24, 2017)

Halcro is famous for it's mono blocs. We're talking top end gear. See the Halcro mono blocs next to the speakers in this picture?

Oct 2002 issue of Stereophile proclaimed it as the best amplifier ever.  At $64,000 then, it better be.


----------



## whirlwind

Very nice....do they make head amps?


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Very nice....do they make head amps?



Nope they don't make mikey mouse lol. Their product range comprise only the dm38 stereo amp and dm88 monoblock amp.

The dm88 is 270watts into 8ohms or 2.1kw peak. This serious high end not just for the power.


----------



## whirlwind

Anyone sell any head amps there ?

Off to work for me....sad day.....last two weeks with my new gear has been wonderful....welcome back to the real world  

Good luck with your choice of amps...I am sure you will get something that you will enjoy for  long time.

Happy listening, Matt.


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks Joe. Enjoy going back to work and generate more money for more gear LOL.

It's looking like the Violectric v281 that will take pride of place next to Euforia. German engineering at it's best. The amp reminds me of Bendix 6080wb. Solidly constructed and no nonsense goodness. Lots of favourable impressions on the thread. 

I will buy the Cardas balanced 4 pin xlr cable, simply because it looks and feel irresistible and I'm sure the sonic goodness that I heard that day was attributed partly to this cable. I never believe in expensive cable before and I blame Tom for letting me hear HD800 with the Cardas.


----------



## UntilThen

I bought a balanced cable for my HD650 and a little dongle. With the Cardas for the HD800, I should be ready for 1812 Overtures.


----------



## Rossliew

How would you describe the sound of the hd800 with said Cardas cable?


----------



## UntilThen

I ain't got a clue. 

Maybe I should rethink Cardas. For a bit more I can get the Audeze LCD2.2.


----------



## MIKELAP

UntilThen said:


> Buying from A2A means everything is inclusive. You don't need to pay shipping, custom taxes and when the unit is defective, just take it back to them for warranty repairs. I think it's then that I have to pay shipping but A2A will co-ordinate everything.
> 
> I can order direct from Schiit but I have to pay for shipping and custom taxes and hope that your gear survive the journey intact.
> 
> ...


Recently sent my WYRED4SOUND DAC 2 to upgrade to a DAC2 DSD cost $300.00USD +shipping both ways to U.S.+exchange rate +customs  Total came up to  $600.00 CAD. ouch !


----------



## UntilThen

MIKELAP said:


> Recently sent my WYRED4SOUND DAC 2 to upgrade to a DAC2 DSD cost $300.00USD +shipping both ways to U.S.+exchange rate +customs  Total came up to  $600.00 CAD. ouch !



Imagine if I have to send from Australia. Multiply the distance and I don't know how much that would be. 

However the question is, 'Did you like it post upgrade?'. I bet you're happily building up your DSD files.


----------



## myphone

Rossliew said:


> How would you describe the sound of the hd800 with said Cardas cable?



I have cardas cable balanced with single end adapter. Does not make high difference. Tubes make much more difference.


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 25, 2017)

Yup who needs Cardas.  Expensive, knot easily and not the length that I want.

So I place an order with Forza Audioworks instead. This is what I just ordered:-

1. Noir HPC Mk2 with Neutrik 4pin balanced termination for my HD800.

2. Claire Hybrid HPC (transparent) with Neutrik 4pin balanced termination for my ZMF Eikon.

.... and I ordered a Cherry Eikon. I love cherries.

This Sunday I'll pick up the ss amp then I am done. I'll just listen to music then.

No... before that, I'll go for a very long bike ride..... because I can.


----------



## UntilThen

myphone said:


> Does not make high difference.



It's not supposed to make a difference. It's supposed to look nice. 

This is for the HD800.

 

and this is for ZMF Eikon.


----------



## UntilThen

Now the ZMF Eikon will make a difference. It will be more enjoyable. Yup I believe that or I wouldn't have ordered it. Was actually going to consider the Audeze LCD2.2 but I think after a lengthy reading and evaluating, I decide that this is the headphone I'll pair with my HD800.

I love the real wood. Cherry turns darker over a period of time.


----------



## Rossliew

Lovely looking cables there. What's the waiting period? 

Those Eikon will be a beauty just to look at them. 

So you've decided to get the V281?


----------



## UntilThen

I have no idea how long it will be for the cables but I think Forza doesn't take that long.... compared to others. 

v281 most likely because I like the tone. I will listen to Rag one more time, just to satisfy myself. I was planning on listening to LCD2.2 and Elear on those amps but I probably won't bother now. I have already ordered Eikon.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Lovely looking cables there. What's the waiting period?



If you need to know, you can ask Matthew of Forza Audioworks. He's very responsive and very good with his customers. Plus he is based in Poland. Maybe Lukasz knows him?


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> If you need to know, you can ask Matthew of Forza Audioworks. He's very responsive and very good with his customers. Plus he is based in Poland. Maybe Lukasz knows him?



Ok, shall check them out, who knows i may need a pair one day.....

The V281 will be more than capable to power all headphones currently in your inventory i believe. And with German build quality, they are sure to last


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Yup who needs Cardas.  Expensive, knot easily and not the length that I want.
> 
> So I place an order with Forza Audioworks instead. This is what I just ordered:-
> 
> ...


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> The V281 will be more than capable to power all headphones currently in your inventory i believe. And with German build quality, they are sure to last



The V200 itself can drive any headphones under the sun, bar Stax. The v281 has 2 x v200 in it and both comes into operation in balanced mode. I am not looking for utmost power though but even Fried the creator says that the v281 is the one to listen to in balanced mode.

As a layman, reading all the technical specifications is interesting and most of it I don't understand. That's not a problem. I don't need to know. What is important is whether there's synergy in my chain with the v281..... and the synergy's there according to my ears.


----------



## UntilThen

@mordy  that might be the spot for my long bike ride. I need the wind in my face, the sea spray splashing against me as I cruise at medium speed. When I come to a downhill stretch, I won't use the brakes. I will lean in prone position to accelerate faster and hope that there's no big stones that my tires might run over. If that happens, you will hear a plop in the lake.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> @mordy  that might be the spot for my long bike ride. I need the wind in my face, the sea spray splashing against me as I cruise at medium speed. When I come to a downhill stretch, I won't use the brakes. I will lean in prone position to accelerate faster and hope that there's no big stones that my tires might run over. If that happens, you will hear a plop in the lake.


No lake mate - it's the ocean at North Head. But plenty of long hills....


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> No lake mate - it's the ocean at North Head. But plenty of long hills....



I probably needed to ride across the oceans. I literally bought a new head-fi system within 2 months.

Now I'm on par with my spent on my car stereo systems 5 years ago. However I ought to be happy now. A tube amp and a ss amp and some nice headphones. The music reaching my ears are unreal now.


----------



## Rossliew

Soon the need to upgrade will rear its beautiful head once again


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Soon the need to upgrade will rear its beautiful head once again



No no no  I know myself. When I get to a certain point with my hobby, I just stopped. 

However that BHSE and Stax for 65? Yeah why not. My children can spoil me then. I will not turn down a Stax system with Pink Panther. It's the most vivid pink panther ever to cross my mind.


----------



## UntilThen

Some things happen for a reason. Like this ad was shown to me today. Why? Why so close to my commit on an amp this Sunday? 
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Fully-Ba...Fi-Audio-Preamp-/252981603332?var=&rmvSB=true

I've never seen an attempt to copy a high end amp with total disregard for propriety rights, such as this.


----------



## UntilThen

Second sign is a call from my dealer that Ragnarok has just arrived today for me. All the way from US of A.


----------



## canthearyou

UntilThen said:


> Some things happen for a reason. Like this ad was shown to me today. Why? Why so close to my commit on an amp this Sunday?
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Fully-Ba...Fi-Audio-Preamp-/252981603332?var=&rmvSB=true
> 
> I've never seen an attempt to copy a high end amp with total disregard for propriety rights, such as this.



Let us know how it sounds. Lol


----------



## UntilThen

canthearyou said:


> Let us know how it sounds. Lol



You don't want to know what 'Attack of the clones' sound like....


----------



## Levanter

Anyone tried the Dragon Inspire IHA-1 amp compared to any of Feliks amps?


----------



## UntilThen

Levanter said:


> Anyone tried the Dragon Inspire IHA-1 amp compared to any of Feliks amps?



I don't think anyone here has. Looks an attractive looking tube amp with transformer output. Reading this review by Amos quickly, I get the impression that it's doing to his Yggy as much as Euforia is doing to my Yggy.

I too felt that Euforia handled the dynamics and details of Yggy brilliantly. 

http://headphone-earphone.reviews/2017/04/21/inspire-dennis-dragon-iha-1/


----------



## UntilThen

Tone between those 2 will be different. Euforia is an OTL amp. The Dragon uses a rectifier and 2 6sn7 drivers, with transformer output. 

In the review, Amos says that the Dragon doesn't provide the music with warm through HD800 and HE-1000 V2. Says it sounds like marble.  

Euforia / Elise on the other hand has a certain warm and lushness generally associated with OTL amps... generally... depends on manufacturer's voicing. Having said that I don't find Euforia or Elise to be particularly too warm and lush. There's a surprising quickness to FA's amps transients with a liquid smoothness.


----------



## UntilThen

So I spoke to Tom of A2A and he confirmed Ragnarok and Violectric v281 will be waiting for my presence at the store on Sunday. They even chose a special gold coin for me to toss to make the decision.

That's what I call customer service.

While all these excitements are happening, I also learn that a HiFi Show is held this weekend in Sydney. Ragnarok and Vidar possibly will be on exhibit driving some fancy speakers.

What timing ! As if I still have time for HIFI Show after buying the amp? Oh well but it's tempting to see what's new in the world of HiFi.....


----------



## oatp1b1

Thinking of pairing an Espressivo with Modi Multibit, driving a pair of HD600's. Thoughts on that combo would be very much appreciated.


----------



## UntilThen

oatp1b1 said:


> Thinking of pairing an Espressivo with Modi Multibit, driving a pair of HD600's. Thoughts on that combo would be very much appreciated.



I will leave it to the resident Espressivo expert @osterwart to answer this.


----------



## ostewart (Jul 27, 2017)

oatp1b1 said:


> Thinking of pairing an Espressivo with Modi Multibit, driving a pair of HD600's. Thoughts on that combo would be very much appreciated.



I tried with the HD650 and the pairing was excellent (I'm not a huge fan of the HD650 so that is saying something, best pairing I've heard yet), so I cannot see why there would be issues with the HD600 

What I like about the Feliks amps is that they have a touch of warmth without smearing the finer details, or taking away speed.

The stock espressivo tubes are actually quite flat sounding, so changing the drivers can change the sound quite a bit for not a lot of money


----------



## UntilThen

I'm going to the Australian HiFi Show this weekend. Look at the list of exhibitors. 

https://www.chestergroup.org/australianhifiavshow/2017/exhibiting/floorplan


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> I'm going to the Australian HiFi Show this weekend. Look at the list of exhibitors.
> 
> https://www.chestergroup.org/australianhifiavshow/2017/exhibiting/floorplan


Why don't u go there first - maybe something new on the horizon that you have overlooked?


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Why don't u go there first - maybe something new on the horizon that you have overlooked?



You don't chase the future. The present is now. I just want to go and have a feel for a large exhibition of audio gear that includes stereo as well as head-fi companies. It was my dealer who told me about the show.


----------



## UntilThen

When I looked at the stats, I was shocked. I've been posting too much in the last month. Time to wind down. 

... and tomorrow I'll audition Ragnarok and Violectric V281 at  A2A one more time and walk out of the shop with one of them.


----------



## Rossliew

Can't wait to read your impressions of the audition !

I listened to the BHSE in a quiet hotel room today with both the 009 and 007. Again the 009 sounded unforgiving. The 007 was more tolerant yet it sounded more like a very good dynamic headphone...so it is looking like stats may not be my priority rig . Dac was the oppo ha-1 fed with iTunes downloads from my iPhone . Cables was mid tier audio quest ones.


----------



## UntilThen

Question is what why were you in a quiet hotel room? Well I will be in a Hotel room too on Sunday but it won't be quiet. It's the Hotel Intercontinental where Bill Clinton stayed when he visited as President.

My impressions of the audition is just one side of the story. It's what happens when I take the beast home.


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 28, 2017)

Oh gosh, Addicted To Audio will have private audition of Sennheiser HE1, the Michaelangelo's creation that cost AUD$75,000 at the show.

I am hoping to get a listen...... one listen and I will be satisfied. One listen is all I ask.


----------



## Althalus

Question. 

My Euforia is arriving soon. Now I'm wondering what is the proper "launch" procedure if there is any. I would say first powering on my CD player, then the amp, then plug in my headphones?  I don't have a clue about these things, so is there any best procedure? 
And yes I'm aware of the burn in period.... Sigh. 

Althalus


----------



## UntilThen

Althalus said:


> Question.
> 
> My Euforia is arriving soon. Now I'm wondering what is the proper "launch" procedure if there is any. I would say first powering on my CD player, then the amp, then plug in my headphones?  I don't have a clue about these things, so is there any best procedure?
> And yes I'm aware of the burn in period.... Sigh.
> ...



Congrats Althalus. You're moving fast.  

My source is always on, so whenever I want to listen to music, it's Euforia that I switch on. So the logical steps would be source, amp, power up in that order. Though you could almost power them up simultaneously it wouldn't matter. Same goes for shut down. I don't see a need for a procedure.


----------



## Althalus

UntilThen said:


> My source is always on, so whenever I want to listen to music, it's Euforia that I switch on. So the logical steps would be source, amp, power up in that order



Thank you for your quick answer. I just wanted to know for sure. 

Althalus


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

Althalus said:


> Thank you for your quick answer. I just wanted to know for sure.
> 
> Althalus



Just remember that tube amps need a good 10-15 mins to warm up


----------



## Althalus

Oscar-HiFi said:


> Just remember that tube amps need a good 10-15 mins to warm up



That I almost forgot, thank you for your reminder. 
They should post these things on the first page.

Althalus


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 28, 2017)

It would probably benefit with a 10 mins warm up but I rarely wait that long. As soon as I power on Euforia and I see the tubes lighted, I'm ready to play my music. I guess any further warm up is accomplished along the way.

Btw, I'm running with Psvane 6sn7 and RCA 6as7g for many days now. Seems fine to me with HD800 and Yggy in the setup. I don't even feel the need to call upon my better tubes.


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

UntilThen said:


> It would probably benefit with a 10 mins warm up but I rarely wait that long. As soon as I power on Euforia and I see the tubes lighted, I'm ready to play my music. I guess any further warm up is accomplished along the way.
> 
> Btw, I'm running with Psvane 6sn7 and RCA 6as7g for many days now. Seems fine to me with HD800 and Yggy in the setup. I don't even feel the need to call upon my better tubes.



Oh I agree, I sometimes jump in before letting my Espressivo fully warm up, but it's good practice to let them warm up I suppose...


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> Question is what why were you in a quiet hotel room? Well I will be in a Hotel room too on Sunday but it won't be quiet. It's the Hotel Intercontinental where Bill Clinton stayed when he visited as President.
> 
> My impressions of the audition is just one side of the story. It's what happens when I take the beast home.



It was a private invitation to an audition of the new Stax T8000 amp but i was there solely for the BHSE/009/007 combo. So tempting. Good power, good dynamics and that sweet tube-inflicted mid-range which in comparison made my Carbon sound slightly drier.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> It was a private invitation to an audition of the new Stax T8000 amp but i was there solely for the BHSE/009/007 combo. So tempting. Good power, good dynamics and that sweet tube-inflicted mid-range which in comparison made my Carbon sound slightly drier.



Very nice Ross. You must be some Datuk. Next time invite me yeah?


----------



## UntilThen

2 hours before I head to A2A but I'm having a blast with Euforia + Yggy + HD800. 2 months since I have this setup together and the synergy is incredible for me. Running just ordinary tubes, Psvane 6sn7 + Rca 6as7g, any music that I play just sounds right to my ears. 

Euforia is definitely not going anywhere. It will be in my Den come winter, summer, spring or autumn.


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> Very nice Ross. You must be some Datuk. Next time invite me yeah?


No la..it was on the sidelines of the KLAV show . Best experience of the show was this audition. Also tried the Focal Utopia and Susvara at another booth. Both didn't really impress. Still love my Sennheisers


----------



## UntilThen

You just save me money there. I am A2A now. I hope nothing else impressed me.


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 28, 2017)

I will listen to KEF LS50 through Rag. Meanwhile the LCD 2.2 is being readied for listening in balanced mode on both amps.


----------



## Rossliew

Is the lcd2 fazor or non fazor version. I personally prefer the non fazor one. More musical


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Is the lcd2 fazor or non fazor version. I personally prefer the non fazor one. More musical



All new LCD2.2 are fazor. The Audeze headphone sounded marvelous on both amps. There was a track by Daft Punk where the bass came on...... and it caused my eye brows to shoot upwards.


----------



## UntilThen

*29th July 2017*
My final audition of Violectric V281 and Ragnorak before purchase. I set out to A2A with an open mind. I have no preference up until that point. From previous listening sessions, I recall that I like both. So the day finally arrived. Which amp will impressed me or will neither impressed me at all? 

*Ragnarok*
I started off using the LCD2.2 listening to Ragnarok in balanced mode. This is the first time I have heard this headphone and what an introduction. The Rag brings out the best in the LCD2.2 in my humble ears opinion. So much bass impact and such rich vocals. Treble as expected is lopped off but overall it's a real fun listen. I love it. I wonder if the ZMF Eikon will cause more excitement than the LCD2.2. Something tells me it will - big time. Next I put on HD800 in balanced mode. The next few minutes were the most unexpected of my musical life. HD800 came alive and sang like I've never heard her before. The whole frequency spectrum ignited and the Senns launch off into orbit. The real surprise was the bass. Never did I expect HD800 to extend so low and belt out bass with so much authority. I was really impressed. Reluctantly, I ask Tom to switch over to v281 for the next part of the audition.

*Violectric v281*
Sadly, after the stellar sound that I heard from Rag, both LCD2.2 and HD800 in balanced mode, sounded soft and far too relaxed with the v281. Last week, the v281 impressed me big time but now back to back with the Ragnarok, the magic's gone. Rag literally stole the show. If you are a Violectric v281 fan, please understand this is my opinion and it is what I hear. I do not wish to cause anguish amongst Violectric fans. Everyone's different. Someone will hear exactly differently from what I hear and come to a different conclusion. That's ok. In audio, it's all subjective. I don't expect everyone to be the same.

Finally to be absolutely sure, I ask Tom to hook up a pair of KEF LS50 to the Yggdrasil and Ragnarok combo. When the first song started playing, a big smile broke out of my face. It is really good. It is so good, my decision on which amp to buy is basically done. 

I told Tom to pack up the Rag and I'm taking it home. 

Some pictures...

 

 

 

@Mshenay  I thought you might be interested to know which amp I finally bought and I don't want to discuss this on the ZMF headphone thread.


----------



## Rossliew

Nice one there, Matt. Guess the Rag truly is end of the world amp for your needs. Congrats on your purchase. Now enjoy the tunes


----------



## UntilThen

Back home, I am still mesmerised by what I hear with this new combo. I will do a write up later.


----------



## canthearyou

Having heard the Yggy/Ragg/HD800 twice now and not being impressed, I wanna give it another listen. This time in a quiet environment.


----------



## Rossliew

The hd800 doesn't sound strident at all? Does it give it gut rumbling bass?


----------



## UntilThen

I tried on HD800, T1 and HD650 back home and the Yggy and Rggy combo just belt out the tunes like a maestro conductor. HD650 scales like a champion. 

There's bite in this combo. It's transparent and revealing. It is faster than Usain Bolt. When the bass string is plucked, the decay is exact. There's no overhang if it's not intended in the recording. Listening to 'Rock You Gently' by Jennifer Warnes of the Hunter album, the bass is powerful and tight. It's quality bass with impact. Never heard HD650 mid bass with so much authority. Moving on to 'Gravity' by John Mayer, I am now hooked by the music. I'm indeed pulled by gravity towards ground, though half of me wants to soar above. 

Bass, mid and treble. The whole frequency spectrum is laced with chilli. It's alive and yet it's smooth. There's not a trace of hardness that makes you want to yank off your headphone. There's no fatigue after several hours of music. On the contrary, the musical notes have a special zing. Even listening to Mahler Symphony No. 3, I can gravitate with the musical score even though it's a more relaxing piece. Classical pieces hooked me even more. It will be a long night of listening to music.

Feed a good recording to Yggy / Rggy / HD800 and you will be rewarded. Dump it a poor crappy youtube 70's pop song and it will play it back with the same gusto. You would even marvel at the in-fidelity of the corrupted tone with tongue a wagging like a dachshund.

Alright, let me listen more so I get more inspiration to write.


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 29, 2017)

canthearyou said:


> Having heard the Yggy/Ragg/HD800 twice now and not being impressed, I wanna give it another listen. This time in a quiet environment.



Funny that's how I felt at the April 2017 Sydney meet when I heard someone's Yggy / Rggy / HD800. I proclaimed that I prefer Euforia's warm and lushness. I think my 'mind' wasn't open then. I've been too tube amp focused for 2 years. 

Now I am really glad I can hear how my HD800, T1 and HD650 is meant to sound.

@canthearyou listen to it in balanced mode. It's the strength of Ragnarok. HD800 in balanced mode on that combo is a different animal.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> The hd800 doesn't sound strident at all? Does it give it gut rumbling bass?



Strident isn't in the combo's dictionary. Authoritative and commanding is what I hear of the HD800 with Yggy and Rggy. It's quality and impactful bass mate. Gut rumbling bass can mean many things to many people lol. It could literally means bass that gives you a rumbling gut. I like to think of the Japanese drums wadaiko, when hit right, will have you hypnotised.


----------



## whirlwind

Congrats!


----------



## Rossliew

Hmm..I've a better understanding of the Amp's capabilities from reading your impressions . I'm now looking at something similar but less pricey. Keep it cheep I say


----------



## canthearyou

I'll be able to hear it again in a few months. We have our fall Head-fi meet coming up. Not that would ever be able to afford it. Lol. My first child is due in December and wife and I will be moving next summer.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Congrats!



Thanks Joe. Really looking forward to Eikon now. I think it will be explosive with Ragnarok. Besides my balanced cable aren't here yet....


----------



## whirlwind

The Eikon will be great on both of your amps   

The same impedance as the HD800, the 85% closed design should make for some wonderful bass


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Hmm..I've a better understanding of the Amp's capabilities from reading your impressions . I'm now looking at something similar but less pricey. Keep it cheep I say



I didn't think I'll be so caught up with solid state. I thought I will remain a staunch tube amp guy forever. Now I can enjoy the best of both. Tube amps will never match a good solid state for it's incredible transients and details. I might be wrong because I have not heard the really top tube amps yet ...


----------



## UntilThen

canthearyou said:


> I'll be able to hear it again in a few months. We have our fall Head-fi meet coming up. Not that would ever be able to afford it. Lol. My first child is due in December and wife and I will be moving next summer.



Aww congrats. 

There's a time for everything. A season for the time of your life. As incredible as head-fi is, nothing beats like having your first child. I wish you every happiness as you embark on this journey.


----------



## canthearyou

UntilThen said:


> Aww congrats.
> 
> There's a time for everything. A season for the time of your life. As incredible as head-fi is, nothing beats like having your first child. I wish you every happiness as you embark on this journey.



Thank you! I am VERY excited about things to come! 
I also can't wait to move out of this apartment and get a home. I do enjoy rocking out on the stereo system! My neighbors not so much.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> The Eikon will be great on both of your amps
> 
> The same impedance as the HD800, the 85% closed design should make for some wonderful bass



I expect to be blown away when I first listen to Eikon. Just as I was blown away when I heard Audeze LCD2.2 today for the first time in balanced mode on Yggy and Rggy. I wonder why it took me so long to hear the LCD2.2 but then perhaps I need to hear it on this combo. Now I know what the planar bass fuss is all about... and the rich mid range.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Hmm..I've a better understanding of the Amp's capabilities from reading your impressions . I'm now looking at something similar but less pricey. Keep it cheep I say



@HPLobster got the Gumby and Mjolnir 2. Together with Elise, HD800 and LCD-3, he has retired to a life of musical zen and meditation. I think he's a contended man now. He has attained his nirvana.


----------



## UntilThen

No time for a proper photo shoot. This is the best I've managed so far. I've been listening since afternoon 2pm till now 9pm. I have a little fan to keep Ragnarok cool and from invading earth.

Would you believe it? As transparent sounding as Rag is, it is also very natural. There's a hint of tube tone. Uncanny. Going through my hi-rez files now. Head bobbing and feet tapping. Throat is still sore from viral infection but who cares.


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> I didn't think I'll be so caught up with solid state. I thought I will remain a staunch tube amp guy forever. Now I can enjoy the best of both. Tube amps will never match a good solid state for it's incredible transients and details. I might be wrong because I have not heard the really top tube amps yet ...



I must say Glenn amps are as close to having the transient and dynamic abilities of a good solid state amp. No other tube amp I've heard have this ability to be transparent yet natural sounding at the same time. And at very competitive prices.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> I must say Glenn amps are as close to having the transient and dynamic abilities of a good solid state amp. No other tube amp I've heard have this ability to be transparent yet natural sounding at the same time. And at very competitive prices.



Dammm. His amps must be something special..... I should ask him for a loaner...


----------



## UntilThen

This isn't my photo but it's how the back of my units are connected... I mean the same xlr balanced cables and power cords. Only difference is I use an Audioquest USB cable and I have a pair of RCA out to Euforia.


----------



## Rossliew

U won't get a loaner coz there's no spare units. Those put up for sale invariably gets sold very quickly. The amps are legendary among enthusiasts. One day u need to own one. U really do.


----------



## UntilThen

This is a killer rendition of 'Bridge Over Troubled Waters' by Eva Cassidy. God took her away too soon. This sounds ethereal on Yggy / Rggy / HD800. I could listen to Eva Cassidy the whole night and wish I was a better man.


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 29, 2017)

Rossliew said:


> U won't get a loaner coz there's no spare units. Those put up for sale invariably gets sold very quickly. The amps are legendary among enthusiasts. One day u need to own one. U really do.



Yeah? And which one do you suggest? The 6x6BL7 OTL or the EL3N. I won't touch the 300B. I'm done spending heaps on tubes. Now I looked at my extravagant Gec 6as7g NOS NIB mother of pearl with the eye of a blood diamond collector. At US$500, it's 1/3 the price of my Ragnarok. It's my end of the world tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

Dang, Leonard Cohen came on now and 'In My Secret Life' means my life ain't no secret anymore and I can forget about sleeping tonight.... 

Oh I was told that the appointment to hear Sennheiser Orpheus tomorrow at Hotel Intercontinental, is fully booked out ! I won't get a chance to hear the marbled amp and the world's most expensive headphone.


----------



## Rossliew

I would say the EL3N is a very versatile and capable amp, suitable for most if not all the headphones in your collection. And you don't need to roll tubes. Just get a solid state rectifier and you're done. Pure musical bliss. OTL for tube rolling afficianados. Versatile and fun when you have a good inventory of tubes.


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> Dang, Leonard Cohen came on now and 'In My Secret Life' means my life ain't no secret anymore and I can forget about sleeping tonight....
> 
> Oh I was told that the appointment to hear Sennheiser Orpheus tomorrow at Hotel Intercontinental, is fully booked out ! I won't get a chance to hear the marbled amp and the world's most expensive headphone.


The Orpheus is probably over rated anyway. You don't lose anything by missing the cut


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> The Orpheus is probably over rated anyway. You don't lose anything by missing the cut



No kidding? One of the A2A salesman went yesterday and heard it. Says it's very good and he feels transformed.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Also tried the Focal Utopia and Susvara at another booth. Both didn't really impress. Still love my Sennheisers



Really? You sure you put on your listening ears? Lol. You must be one of the few who isn't impressed by the Utopia. Hmmm... that HiFiMan Susvara is so new.... you sure that didn't impressed? Hahaha...

If you mean Sennheiser HD800, I would agree. The Sennheiser engineers did an incredible job. I think they surpassed themselves. It's still a benchmark today.... well according to me.


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> No kidding? One of the A2A salesman went yesterday and heard it. Says it's very good and he feels transformed.


Once your ears get used to the initial wow, it becomes just that. Well, to me anyway  

Sure, they are expected to sound good but for the price, what would one's expectation/measurement of "good/very good" be?


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> Really? You sure you put on your listening ears? Lol. You must be one of the few who isn't impressed by the Utopia. Hmmm... that HiFiMan Susvara is so new.... you sure that didn't impressed? Hahaha...
> 
> If you mean Sennheiser HD800, I would agree. The Sennheiser engineers did an incredible job. I think they surpassed themselves. It's still a benchmark today.... well according to me.



Hahahah..definitely had my listening ears on and it was in a quiet room, only one other guest around then. First, they used the WA6 to drive the Utopia, which i found to be lacking in excitement, soft, without impact. No fun at all. Then i tried it through the Audio Gd HE-9 amp paired with the Master 7 DAC. The Utopia lost the wooly sound off the WA6, bass tightened, everything sounded clearer. That's it. More enjoyable than off the WA6 but too fatiguing. Not sure if its the amp or the DAC. 

As for the Susvara, it was definitely a more difficult load to drive compared to the Utopia but driven off the HE-9, it sounded flat and uninspiring. No planar bass impact. Or perhaps its just the flat frequency response that makes it less fun sounding. Definitely no mid-bass bump like the Senns. To me, its sterile. Whats the point to pay so much for a pair of headphones that is touted as the HE-6 successor and not have the bass impact to match or even surpass its predecessor? Write off for me. YMMV.

Guess my ears are too attuned to the high impedance Senn signature sound that it cannot accept other more neutral sounding cans..me and my old ears..


----------



## UntilThen

Very nice Ross. You heard a lot of gear at the hotel. So you sampled Master 7 dac and Audio Gd HE-9 with the Utopia and find it fatiguing? Oh well just goes to show not everything gel together. That HE-9 is a limited edition Audio Gd 9, the behemoth amp.

I'm going to Hotel Intercontinental today. I'll listen to Simaudio Moon Neo 430HAD, the Abyss headphone, Audeze LCD4, see what the fuss Aurender is all about, Bricasti, try out the Chord Dave and Hugo 2 and immersed myself in some HiFi stuff in the 35 suites there. Perhaps listen to Utopia again.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Sure, they are expected to sound good but for the price, what would one's expectation/measurement of "good/very good" be?



You are right. No head-fi setup should cost $75,000. 

Not when my Yggy, Rggy and HD800 sounds like a million bucks but cost just a few quids.  I woke up this morning at 6am and listened to 'Rattle That Lock' by David Gilmore and I'm so glad that the magic I heard from last night is still there. The strength of this setup is micro dynamics, depth of soundstage is very good, good quality bass, details and clarity and instruments separation. Lastly all these means nothing, if it doesn't sound right with my ears. The best thing is that it sounds natural and unfatiguing. I must be one of the few to enjoy this setup.

Now I'm awaiting for the arrival of Eikon eagerly to try out with Yggy and Rggy.... and my balanced cables for HD800, HD650 and Eikon.


----------



## Rossliew

Yes please share your impressions of the Hifi show. Particularly the Abyss and Lcd4. The simaudio sounds too smooth for my ears. Heard it at A2A Melbourne couple of years back. Smooth and lacking attack.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> You are right. No head-fi setup should cost $75,000.
> 
> Not when my Yggy, Rggy and HD800 sounds like a million bucks but cost just a few quids.  I woke up this morning at 6am and listened to 'Rattle That Lock' by David Gilmore and I'm so glad that the magic I heard from last night is still there. The strength of this setup is micro dynamics, depth of soundstage is very good, good quality bass, details and clarity and instruments separation. Lastly all these means nothing, if it doesn't sound right with my ears. The best thing is that it sounds natural and unfatiguing. I must be one of the few to enjoy this setup.
> 
> Now I'm awaiting for the arrival of Eikon eagerly to try out with Yggy and Rggy.... and my balanced cables for HD800, HD650 and Eikon.


Hi UT,

Following your sonic travels with interest - trying to digest your impressions. Does Yggy & Rggy sound better than Yggy and Euforia?


----------



## Rossliew

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Following your sonic travels with interest - trying to digest your impressions. Does Yggy & Rggy sound better than Yggy and Euforia?


+1


----------



## mordy (Jul 30, 2017)

Speaking of Sennheiser Orpheus, why hasn't somebody mentioned Hi Fi Man ShangriLa?






https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1304686-REG/hifiman_shangri_la_system_headphones.html

(If you want to know how much it costs, u can't afford it lol)
Them big tubes are 300B.....
Featuring four of HiFiMan's custom designed, custom made, 300B Tubes as the warm beating heart which pumps the audio lifeblood of the Shangri-La.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Following your sonic travels with interest - trying to digest your impressions. Does Yggy & Rggy sound better than Yggy and Euforia?



Yes affirmative. I've never come across another setup where I can say without hesitating but in Yggy and Rggy I can.

I will expand when I get home.

On my way home now after the HiFi show, where I heard some supposedly high end stuff. I will post my impressions later.

This is the Wilson speaker system with Nagra mono blocs. I am willing to trade my Yggy and Rggy for it.


----------



## UntilThen

Dynaudio flagship Confidence speakers with Moon monoblocs. Power house but the Wilson system sounded more natural and better to my ears.


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 30, 2017)

Another pair of Wilson speakers. I want these.


----------



## UntilThen

Yesterday and this morning, I heard things I have not heard before with Yggy and Rggy.

This is more telling considering I have been using Yggy and Euoria for 2 months and I thought it resolves extremely well but with Yggy and Rggy, a new world opens up. I was trying to hear as many songs as I could this morning before I finally shut down the system to go to the show.

Yggy and Rggy will be the subject of my fascinations for a long time.... if the first 2 days are any indications....


----------



## UntilThen

A masterclass on turntables session in progress but I didn't stay through... my mind was on head-fi.


----------



## UntilThen

This is the first head-fi system that I audition. HiFiMan Susvara and Woo Audio WA33. The full on bass is what hits me first with a Nirvana song, followed by Muse. It's solid, packs a punch and sounds like speakers. It's too textured though but the bass is soooo tight and impactful. Love it. This is a big sound and full on.


----------



## UntilThen

2nd setup is Simaudio Moon Neo 430 HAD driving Grado PS2000e. Ross, you are right, the Moon sounded too relaxed and soft. It's piss weak lol. Pardon my french. At $5799, I rather have the Ragnarok anytime. So much for most participants favouring it in the Big Sound 2015. Moral of the story, listen for yourself. The Grado is a saving grace though. It has a nice mid bass punch and sounds clear throughout the frequency spectrum. This is one Grado I could live with. Love the big cushy pads that covers the ears too. It's an expensive Grado at $2695.


----------



## UntilThen

Next I tried Foxtex TH900 with the Moon amp. After the Grado, the Fostex is a disappointment. It's like the top end disappeared. Bass is prominent and extends very low but that's about it. So yeah, this headphone is not for me.


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 30, 2017)

That's it. I didn't listened anymore. I had enough for the day. I was eager to get home to listen to my Yggy / Rggy / HD800 setup again and it didn't disappoint. It dawn on me that my setup is as good as any of those I heard, if not better.

I am still amazed this system sounds so natural and musical with no hint of fatigue or sibilance. There's even a trace of very light tube tone but otherwise this is a very revealing system. The song unfolds before your ears. Each chorus is a surprise. Soundstage is exceptionally large. Musical instruments are clearly heard. When the drum sticks hits the tom tom, it is instantaneous and decays to nothing in absolute timing. Listening to Abbey Road recording of the Beatles, I'm transported to the era of the Fab Four. Next the Rolling Stones and Led Zeppelin.

It's a fluke. I almost didn't get Rag but I am sure glad I did. I could live with just Yggdrasil, Ragnarok and HD800 .... and Eikon because I think this headphone will sound phenomenal with it.

.... and I haven't even tried this setup with my speakers and subwoofer yet.


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> 2nd setup is Simaudio Moon Neo 430 HAD driving Grado PS2000e. Ross, you are right, the Moon sounded too relaxed and soft. It's piss weak lol. Pardon my french. At $5799, I rather have the Ragnarok anytime. So much for most participants favouring it in the Big Sound 2015. Moral of the story, listen for yourself. The Grado is a saving grace though. It has a nice mid bass punch and sounds clear throughout the frequency spectrum. This is one Grado I could live with. Love the big cushy pads that covers the ears too. It's an expensive Grado at $2695.


Hahahaha...smooth Simaudio..

i had bright idea of using my NAD3020 as pre-amp into my Carbon. Carbon volume on max and i control with the NAD's volume. Wow! I get the full bodied sound i was missing so much. Now, this is what my version of Stax should sound like 

This also reinforces the fact that NAD's pre-amp section is top notch despite the age of the amp. Every other amp i've tried using the NAD as pre-amp benefits similarly. What else would i need? not the mega-bucks WA33, nope. this is all i need just like you with your Yggy/Rag combo.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> i had bright idea of using my NAD3020 as pre-amp into my Carbon.



If you have a NAD3020, it's showing your age.  It's a classic though. I have not heard a Liquid Carbon. I heard it's warm, warmer than v281.

I powered on both Euforia and Ragnarok. Both fed by Yggdrasil and put them through a selection of songs. Flipping the headphone jack between them occasionally. I am satisfied that source and amp wise, I'm good. Even headphones, I'm getting there. Don't believe in too many headphones because some will just not be used.

I just realised that for 2 weeks, I did not change my Euforia's tubes and it still sound fresh to me. This is it. I'm done with upgrades. I'm just going to listen to music. It's what I set out to do. To listen to music once I've found my ideal system.


----------



## ostewart

Rossliew said:


> Hahahah..definitely had my listening ears on and it was in a quiet room, only one other guest around then. First, they used the WA6 to drive the Utopia, which i found to be lacking in excitement, soft, without impact. No fun at all. Then i tried it through the Audio Gd HE-9 amp paired with the Master 7 DAC. The Utopia lost the wooly sound off the WA6, bass tightened, everything sounded clearer. That's it. More enjoyable than off the WA6 but too fatiguing. Not sure if its the amp or the DAC.
> 
> As for the Susvara, it was definitely a more difficult load to drive compared to the Utopia but driven off the HE-9, it sounded flat and uninspiring. No planar bass impact. Or perhaps its just the flat frequency response that makes it less fun sounding. Definitely no mid-bass bump like the Senns. To me, its sterile. Whats the point to pay so much for a pair of headphones that is touted as the HE-6 successor and not have the bass impact to match or even surpass its predecessor? Write off for me. YMMV.
> 
> Guess my ears are too attuned to the high impedance Senn signature sound that it cannot accept other more neutral sounding cans..me and my old ears..



Very interesting, I have the Susvara in at the moment for review and clinical is far from what I would call them, but then again I'm driving them off a Marantz PM-5005 integrated amp. Waiting for a loan Violectric V280/V281 (not sure which) to land and use with them for the full review.

I find the Susvara incredible organic with effortless extension and a smooth but incredibly detailed sound, and excellent soundstage, the bass is really impressive with good slam and layering.


----------



## UntilThen

ostewart said:


> I find the Susvara incredible organic with effortless extension and a smooth but incredibly detailed sound, and excellent soundstage, the bass is really impressive with good slam and layering.



Agree too. Clinical it is certainly not. This is what I say of the pairing and we are in agreement of the bass.

_HiFiMan Susvara and Woo Audio WA33. The full on bass is what hits me first with a Nirvana song, followed by Muse. It's solid, packs a punch and sounds like speakers. It's too textured though but the bass is soooo tight and impactful. Love it. This is a big sound and full on._


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Yes please share your impressions of the Hifi show. Particularly the Abyss and Lcd4.



Too bad I didn't try out these headphones. I didn't see them or I didn't try looking hard enough. Guess I didn't want to be tempted to buy more expensive headphones.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Speaking of Sennheiser Orpheus, why hasn't somebody mentioned Hi Fi Man ShangriLa?



The ShangriLa is still cheaper than the Orpheus. Besides the Shangrila looks like a design gone terribly wrong. It looks horrible for $50,000.


----------



## Rossliew

ostewart said:


> Very interesting, I have the Susvara in at the moment for review and clinical is far from what I would call them, but then again I'm driving them off a Marantz PM-5005 integrated amp. Waiting for a loan Violectric V280/V281 (not sure which) to land and use with them for the full review.
> 
> I find the Susvara incredible organic with effortless extension and a smooth but incredibly detailed sound, and excellent soundstage, the bass is really impressive with good slam and layering.


Hmm either I have faulty ears or the amp/Dac pairing wasn't synergistic. Or I just didn't enjoy the sq of the susvara. Similarly I found the He1k gutless...


----------



## ostewart

Rossliew said:


> Hmm either I have faulty ears or the amp/Dac pairing wasn't synergistic. Or I just didn't enjoy the sq of the susvara. Similarly I found the He1k gutless...



My guess would be the amp/DAC synergy. I'm only using a low end ish JDS LABS EL DAC


----------



## Rossliew

ostewart said:


> My guess would be the amp/DAC synergy. I'm only using a low end ish JDS LABS EL DAC



The dac was the Audio Gd Master 7 (supposedly a ladder dac) with the Master He-9, a pimped up amp. I hasten a guess that the Susvara is just too smooth sounding for my taste...


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 30, 2017)

Rossliew said:


> The dac was the Audio Gd Master 7 (supposedly a ladder dac) with the Master He-9, a pimped up amp. I hasten a guess that the Susvara is just too smooth sounding for my taste...



Audio Gd Master HE-9 will surely drive the Susvara.

I'll state here that I have not heard bass so solidly belted out before than that served by Woo Audio Wa33 driving Susvara. I want that bass. Both Nirvana and Muse songs moved my inner being.

Even Fostex TH900 bass coudln't rival that and I heard the TH900 immediately after that but with the Moon 430 amp.


----------



## UntilThen

But why am I talking about other setups? This is the mother of all setups and it's rocking it away for me on my classic HD800. If I didn't hear this pairing and you told me it's a great pairing, I wouldn't have believe you. I read somewhere that Jason tune Ragnarok with HD800 and I can believe that statement now.


----------



## UntilThen

In the midst of Ragnarok excitement, Euforia is almost forgotten. Almost.... 

Well a pair of Chatham 6080wb solid graphite plates arrived from @oshipao . I'm glad I bought these. Somehow they are a bit lighter than the Bendix 6080wb slotted graphite plates that I also have but the sound is just as gorgeous. The texture is outstanding and killer bass weight. These are quality tubes. Make sure you sample a pair.

Euforia still sounds stellar. Feliks Audio pick the right words. Purism and clarity. For a tube amp, I find the transient response outstanding. Coupled with a solid bass, excellent soundstage and liquid tone that is never dry, you have a tube amp to satisfy your listening sessions for a very long time. Truth be told, I doubt you will need another tube amp. It is that good.


----------



## UntilThen

@angpsi  enjoy the better tubes. Sylvania 6sn7w, Gec 6080, Chatham 6080wb, Gec 6as7g. My tubes fascination has come to an end, as far as 6sn7 and 6as7 are concerned. I have far too many already. I wish you and all the folks there happy listening. It's what we are here for. We share our passion. Thanks for quoting my name. 

My passion right now is listening to 'Copeland: Fanfare for the Common Man Appalachian Spring, Symphony No 3' conductor Eiji Oue..... on Yggdrasil + Ragnarok + HD800. I can say that I have attained nirvana.... almost... waiting for the balance xlr cable to complete it.


----------



## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> @angpsi  enjoy the better tubes. Sylvania 6sn7w, Gec 6080, Chatham 6080wb, Gec 6as7g. My tubes fascination has come to an end, as far as 6sn7 and 6as7 are concerned. I have far too many already. I wish you and all the folks there happy listening. It's what we are here for. We share our passion. Thanks for quoting my name.
> 
> My passion right now is listening to 'Copeland: Fanfare for the Common Man Appalachian Spring, Symphony No 3' conductor Eiji Oue..... on Yggdrasil + Ragnarok + HD800. I can say that I have attained nirvana.... almost... waiting for the balance xlr cable to complete it.


Good for you UT, I have no doubt the Schiit combo plus Euforia sound stellar! Obviously I'd be amiss not to mention your name in regard to the Syl /w, you've been a great part of my education!

Personally I'm just trying to get acquainted with my new Mimby... _Un_fortunately, in the process I also got re-acquainted with my stereo system and it looks like my first love is, and always will be, *it*! As a result, I'm now suffering from the itch to upgrade my Benchmark DAC1, but I have no money whatsoever to pay for the $1500+ tier equipment... Will be gladly taking donations though!


----------



## Rossliew

Best of both worlds, Matt. Happy for you whilst my search continues. Curiosity never satiated so I will keep seeking out different gears to sample if funds permit.


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 31, 2017)

angpsi said:


> Personally I'm just trying to get acquainted with my new Mimby... _Un_fortunately, in the process I also got re-acquainted with my stereo system and it looks like my first love is, and always will be, *it*! As a result, I'm now suffering from the itch to upgrade my Benchmark DAC1, but I have no money whatsoever to pay for the $1500+ tier equipment... Will be gladly taking donations though!



I hope you like the Mimby.

As much as I love the new setup of Yggy + Rggy + HD800, I know it's only a matter of time that I move Yggy and Rggy to the lounge to try with my speakers and sub.

I heard KEF LS50 with Yggdrasil and Ragnarok on Sunday at Addicted To Audio and I knew then that I will be hooked on stereo again..... like you I'm taking donations and taken to street busking. I need me a pair of Wilson Alexia and Nagra monoblocs. See you don't want to get into HiFi ....

Just stay with sane and healthy head-fi.

This is the state of the art Alexia by Wilson that I heard at the HiFi Show. I'm willing to trade all of my head-fi for it and the Nagra.

 

This is the Nagra monoblocs..

I will trade my bicycles for these....


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 31, 2017)

When this song comes on while listening to the Schiit combo with HD800, I was overcome with raw emotions. Amy Winehouse RIP but you gave it your all and your all was heard in this setup. It's raw, it's powerful and it's explosive. Forget the Wilsons and Nagras.... this is the real twang.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Best of both worlds, Matt. Happy for you whilst my search continues. Curiosity never satiated so I will keep seeking out different gears to sample if funds permit.



You will find it. As long as you stay with Head-Fi, it won't bankrupt you. Once you strayed into HiFi, you'll start to think of B&W 802 D3. Good luck.


----------



## Rossliew

I think I will look at the Audio Note first. Cheapest speaker is myr15k per pair..just the price of an 009/susvara/Abyss. Not too bad eh


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> This is the state of the art Alexia by Wilson that I heard at the HiFi Show.


Why do their speakers have to be so ugly?


----------



## UntilThen

Oskari said:


> Why do their speakers have to be so ugly?



They didn't have B&W design engineers.  Look at the B&W Nautilus. This is cool as cucumber and to think it's inspired by the snail.


----------



## angpsi

This is for @Rossliew. Looks like this is def pockets thread!


----------



## angpsi

Personally I'll be using this finish when I buy my house in South Kensington.


----------



## Rossliew

These are probably no good for metal lol


----------



## angpsi

Rossliew said:


> These are probably no good for metal lol


Maybe if Metal was played at Carnegie Hall.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> They didn't have B&W design engineers.  Look at the B&W Nautilus. This is cool as cucumber and to think it's inspired by the snail.


Hi UT,
What is the WAF of Nautilus?
WAF= Wife Acceptance Factor
I just KNOW that my wife would not let me put two huge snails in my living room....
Maybe the Alexia with grills:




On the other hand, $38,500 would buy me a loaded Toyota minivan with all the bells and whistles for my wife so that she can ferry around the grandchildren in style.....


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


>


Almost as "pretty" as this:


----------



## mordy

Oskari said:


> Almost as "pretty" as this:






The speaker grill is definitively inspired by the Pontiac Aztec grill


----------



## mordy

mordy said:


> The speaker grill is definitively inspired by the Pontiac Aztec grill


OK, so which is the worlds most beautiful speaker?



































Special points if you can identify the speakers.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Special points if you can identify the speakers.


I recognize some of them, and they are some of the weirder entries.

Sonus faber does beautiful woodwork (and horrible websites).


----------



## UntilThen

My expectations of a good loudspeaker is more realistic. All I want is a Harbeth. Preferably a 40.1.


----------



## UntilThen

Life is good getting up in the morning and hearing such sweet clear music. Eric Bibb on Troubadour Live. I don't need speakers now. 

All I need is this with a Sennheiser HD800.

http://i.imgur.com/oFAMN2l.png


----------



## UntilThen

Listening to Marina Prior, Euforia is still sounding like gold. Back to back with Ragnarok, I have the best of both worlds. Presentations of tones so romantic, so clear, so vivid and yet so subdue. Only classy performers can accomplish this.

I am satisfied now.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> What is the WAF of Nautilus?



Mordy, the Nautilus is 2 decades old. It's outdated now. Get a B&W 802 D3 instead.


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> My expectations of a good loudspeaker is more realistic. All I want is a Harbeth. Preferably a 40.1.


I'm perfectly happy with my _very_ vintage Magnepans bought used many moons ago.


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 31, 2017)

Do show your vintage Magnepans. 

May I borrow your Magnepans? What model is it?

Wait till you see and hear my Axis LS88.


----------



## Rossliew

Matt, doesn't your yggy get overly warm stacking the Rag on top?


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 31, 2017)

It's warm but not overly warm. Perfectly safe to stack it as there are no vents underneath Ragnarok.

On long listening sessions I run a fan for a few minutes and that will cool it right down.

It's winter now so it's my heater too. 

Oh Yggy is barely warm. It's Ragnarok that is warm.


----------



## UntilThen

I might get a longer xlr cable and run it side by side.


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> Do show your vintage Magnepans.
> 
> May I borrow your Magnepans? What model is it?
> 
> Wait till you see and hear my Axis LS88.






 

Similar to that.

SMGa. _Very_ vintage.

Get your own pair!


----------



## UntilThen

Oskari said:


> Similar to that.
> 
> SMGa. _Very_ vintage.
> 
> Get your own pair!




Holy cow. You are an audiophile.


----------



## UntilThen

The first of the balance cable arrived for my HD650.

This is the ebay description for it. It cost US$66.

Japan Canare copper wire is a balance type cable with Pure copper conductor. In addition to Polyethylene insulation as a dielectric. This cable use carbon Gold Plated 4 pin xlr plug and Gold plated Sennheiser standard plugs . it will upgrade the sound quality, more detail ...

Whether it's the cable or the fact that I've gone balance, SQ is increased 10 fold. No kidding. It's like a different tone completely. 3D, holographic and amazingly wide soundstage. Texture, density, clarity and impact. Not sold on balance hype before but this is no hype. Listen and be convinced.

Best of all, my HD650 cable is now a manageable 1.5m length cable. Perfect length for my desktop usage.


----------



## whirlwind

Senns cables always seem to long to me also.

Congrats


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 1, 2017)

It seems very well made for $66 and from Hong Kong. Yup I would have bought for the length alone.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Japan-Made-...var=590682498957&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## UntilThen

Every song sounds different and tantalising now.... and this is with HD650 and Yggdrasil and Ragnarok. I can't keep up with this sonic goodness. I'm getting more than what I paid for....


----------



## Rossliew

I use a similar Canare balanced cable for a couple of my Grado's. definitely bang for the buck. 

Now I've gotten curious of the Rag..shall have to research more..


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Now I've gotten curious of the Rag..shall have to research more..



What you want to do is get hold of Yggdrasil and Ragnarok and have a good listen. So this is what Jason means... when he said in 2013 that they will released a statement dac and amp. A powerful statement in my opinion. For the money, these sounds astonishingly good.

I'm starting to sound like a broken record now... singing the praises of Yggy and Rggy.


----------



## UntilThen

Man, you have to listen to it in balanced mode....

I switch back to HD800 in SE mode and the thrill is gone....

Then I switch back to balanced on HD650 and star dust starts to rain down. 'First We Take Manhattan' by Jennifer Warnes has the beat and the bite and the boom. Tight and real. It's a treat. I'm afraid I will spend too much time listening to music now.


----------



## UntilThen

Mahler Symphony No 9. I'm listening to music now. The gear disappeared. This is ethereal, sublime and haunting. Eiji Oue at his best. If classical moves me then I'll indulge in more classical. I will listen to Haydn's Creation.


----------



## Rossliew

Interesting...how's it sound with the HD600/650 and T1?


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> Mahler Symphony No 9. I'm listening to music now. The gear disappeared. This is ethereal, sublime and haunting. Eiji Oue at his best. If classical moves me then I'll indulge in more classical. I will listen to Haydn's Creation.


May i suggest you have a listen to Vivaldi's Four Seasons : Concerto For Violin and Strings as played by Salvatore Accardo


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 1, 2017)

Rossliew said:


> Interesting...how's it sound with the HD600/650 and T1?



It sounds like HD650 and T1 with impact and on steroids. 

I have no balance cable on T1 though and being an old headphone I wouldn't bother adapting it.


----------



## canthearyou

So who's gonna sell me their Euforia?


----------



## UntilThen

Me and all my tubes.


----------



## canthearyou

UntilThen said:


> Me and all my tubes.


PM me a price.


----------



## UntilThen

Tonight when I get home.


----------



## UntilThen

I just power on Euforia and plug in my HD800..... holy schiit, I must be nuts to want to sell it. It's sounding like Zeus atop Mount Olympus. all majesty and supreme.

Ok.... change my mind about selling...


----------



## UntilThen

If ever I sell Euforia, it would be to get DNA Stratus.

I think DNA Stratus would have a big shoe to fill with Euforia sounding so good with HD800 and Yggy.


----------



## UntilThen

But there's really no need for more amps. Yggdrasil and Ragnarok produce some of the best goose bumps moments listening to 'Inception' sound track. This combo is so stunning with either HD800 or HD650.


----------



## Rossliew

There's always better amps - so there's your reason to sell the Euforia


----------



## UntilThen

There's none better than Yggy and Rggy now. In the past, I don't know what Jeff Buckley is singing in the 'Grace' album but now I do. Now he actually does make sense and the music is raw and biting. I mean his wailing is real and raw. See the power of the Schiit combo?


----------



## Rossliew

Moar is always better


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Moar is always better



Less is more.   A short while ago, I had Darkvoice 336se, La Figaro 339, Elise and Euforia sitting on my desk. 

Glad I gave the La Figaro 339 to my son and sold Elise to you.... and remove the Darkvoice 336se from my desk. 

Now I'm getting a 1 metre xlr balance interconnects so I can place Yggy and Rggy side by side. My desktop real estate is precious now.

Definitely less is more.


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> Whether it's the cable or the fact that I've gone balance, SQ is increased 10 fold.


Let's not get completely DL here…


----------



## UntilThen

@DecentLevi needs to cut short his holiday and start posting again.

I rather have DL who have the guts to say what he means even though it might not agree with everyone than somebody who doesn't and criticise him.


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> Whether it's the cable or the fact that I've gone balance, SQ is increased *10 fold*.


Forget DL. Replace with OTT.


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 3, 2017)

Oskari said:


> Forget DL. Replace with OTT.



Yeah if you dont like impressions dont read then or write your own boring impressions.

It's easy to try and sit in a high lofty seat and criticise others who post.


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 3, 2017)

I could care less if you think what I say is OTT. It's my opinion. Perhaps you have never heard Yggy and Rggy in balanced mode vs SE mode.

Difference is huge. If you heard it, you wouldn't be offended or think it's too OTT then.

10 fold is conservative. Ask anyone who heard Yggy and Rggy in balanced mode vs SE mode and see what they say.


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 3, 2017)

Got a longer 1metre xlr balance interconnects and now Ragnarok can sit alongside Yggdrasil and Euforia.


----------



## UntilThen

My favourite audio shop where I bought all my gear except Euforia.


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 3, 2017)

Hi guys I'm still around..  the blunt, excitable and even risk taking Levi that tries his darndest to stay Decent 

Anyway I've been quite out of the swing of things in recent months... is this thread the new answer to any other locked F.A. threads perhaps? So I'm deep into my journey. Finished (and through with) China, now quite happier in Japan - enjoying hot springs and looking for electro dance clubs and I may even find a wife here or at my next few countries planned to visit in Southeast Asia... not to mention half a song away from finishing my first experimental album (artist name Modlift) and throwing around the idea of performing at a club. Also busy with constant trip planning, so indeed I've got my plate too full for a while.

As far as the hobby goes, I've got my portable Hi-Fi audio rig satisfying my cravings on the go: portable setup: Onkyo DP X1-A [DAP] dual (newest version) Sabre chips with isolated power section --> FIIO E6 matchbox sized amp --> Focal Sphear IEMs or modded HP-100 'cans. Transportable home setup: PC --> Wyrd --> iPurifier (2 of my USB components) --> Modi 2 miltibit --> MONOTOR studio monitoring amp from Little Labs --> HD 600 with silver or copper cable. 'Got the set-up / tear down of this rig down to around 12 minutes each, but by golly I've been hit with excess baggage charges at least once so far. But makes me happy so it's worth it!
Some thoughts from this rig that keep resounding in my head are that cable material really does make a difference (INCLUDING interconnect cable material), as well as USB components and power isolation (the latter two both entail this).

RE my Feliks Audio setup, my Euforia is sittin' pretty in storage along with some vintage great condition tubes and I'm looking forward to the day I get settled in again and can turn it on once again, especially with my Singxer SU-1 that was too heavy to lug around; the USB component 'that can' (and does) make tremendous improvements to my DACs on a consistent basis. Until that day I'll keep enjoying my transportable rig and may get some better IEMs


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 3, 2017)

It's nice to travel the way you do. Not many people can just up and go because of family and work commitments. Anyway, Head-Fi will always be here and there will always be drama. If you are afraid of drama, then don't post. 

You probably aren't aware that the 2 most recent release by Schiit. The Eitr and Gen 5 for Mimby, Bimby, Gumby and Yggy. Unless you're into I2S, Gen.5 is said to be on par with Singxer SU-1 or even better, without an additional box. It's what I will be doing with my Yggy.

Anyway enjoy Japan. It's a beautiful place, fondly remembered with my time there in 2010.... and get some traditional Japanese music.

... and don't forget to stop by Singapore... my other home. Of course if you happen to drop by Sydney, you would know that UT lives here.


----------



## DecentLevi

Of all the rigs I listened to at the 2017 L.A. Can Jam including the legendary and new breakthroughs of amps, headphones, etc. two that I can't get out of my head are the Chord Hugo 2 and the Mr. Speakers Ether C Flow closed headphones. The former yields an unmistakably captivating experience and the latter gives resolution and fidelity in droves. Very very future proof for both transportable DAC/amp unit, and for closedback headphones (though not _necessarily_ paired together). @hypnos1 any chance you've paired the new Hugo with your Euforia, and how did it compare to your tube DAC? Feel free to send me a link if that's already been answered.
Well not sure when I can post more


----------



## Oskari




----------



## Rossliew

Well, i dug out the humble Asgard (first version) and ran it with the Bimby and out through my T1 Gen 2. Wowzie - this is synergy and the amp has enough grunt for the T1s (even at 600 Ohms) making it sound full bodied and musical. Never heard a solid state amp with the musicality of tubes as the original Asgard.

Then i switched to the Elise - another wow moment. The tubes lent an airier presentation and that holographic sense of sound..i can live without the need for upgrading anymore


----------



## mordy

DecentLevi said:


> Of all the rigs I listened to at the 2017 L.A. Can Jam including the legendary and new breakthroughs of amps, headphones, etc. two that I can't get out of my head are the Chord Hugo 2 and the Mr. Speakers Ether C Flow closed headphones. The former yields an unmistakably captivating experience and the latter gives resolution and fidelity in droves. Very very future proof for both transportable DAC/amp unit, and for closedback headphones (though not _necessarily_ paired together). @hypnos1 any chance you've paired the new Hugo with your Euforia, and how did it compare to your tube DAC? Feel free to send me a link if that's already been answered.
> Well not sure when I can post more


Hi DL,

Good to hear from you and wishing you safe travel. Did you have a chance to sample hi fi in some of the places you visited?


----------



## hypnos1

DecentLevi said:


> Of all the rigs I listened to at the 2017 L.A. Can Jam including the legendary and new breakthroughs of amps, headphones, etc. two that I can't get out of my head are the Chord Hugo 2 and the Mr. Speakers Ether C Flow closed headphones. The former yields an unmistakably captivating experience and the latter gives resolution and fidelity in droves. Very very future proof for both transportable DAC/amp unit, and for closedback headphones (though not _necessarily_ paired together). @hypnos1 any chance you've paired the new Hugo with your Euforia, and how did it compare to your tube DAC? Feel free to send me a link if that's already been answered.
> Well not sure when I can post more



Hi DL...sounds like you're having a great time out Far East...but to not be hearing Euforia magic must surely be at least one downside lol!! Ah well, one day.....???

The Hugo2 certainly drew a lot of attention at London CanJam also....with very good reason! As for myself, I've given some idea of how it performs in my own particular setup over at the Euforia thread  :  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-euforia-a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing.831743/page-244 
Plus earlier posts...but in short, I personally prefer what it delivers via Euforia, over direct out to cans, even though the latter is still *phenomenally* good!...(and you know only too well I'm not usually one for _excessive_ description lol!!!   ...)....CHEERS!...


----------



## UntilThen

On an


Rossliew said:


> Well, i dug out the humble Asgard (first version) and ran it with the Bimby and out through my T1 Gen 2. Wowzie - this is synergy and the amp has enough grunt for the T1s (even at 600 Ohms) making it sound full bodied and musical. Never heard a solid state amp with the musicality of tubes as the original Asgard.
> 
> Then i switched to the Elise - another wow moment. The tubes lent an airier presentation and that holographic sense of sound..i can live without the need for upgrading anymore



Aren't you lucky then. You don't need to upgrade to Blue Hawaii and Stax now. Think of the money you will save. 

Also remember what I told you about the Elise you bought.... Lukasz said that after the renewal, it's closer to a Euforia than an Elise now.


----------



## myphone

UntilThen said:


> Looks like it's down to either ZMF Atticus or Eikon as my choice for a rich mid-range and spectacular bass headphone to add to my inventory. I'm reading through this thread to get more information.
> 
> It's hearthening to see Zach being enarmoured with Euforia. He was given a Euforia by Feliks Audio.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/a...ic-driver-headphones-from-zmf.821782/page-263



Reply from Lukasz, Euforia is designed to handle heater current of 6.8 amps.


----------



## UntilThen

myphone said:


> Reply from Lukasz, Euforia is designed to handle heater current of 6.8 amps.



Yup I know that. Heard from Lukasz some time ago. Elise is between 6 to 6.5. Euforia has a bit more leeway.


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> On an
> 
> 
> Aren't you lucky then. You don't need to upgrade to Blue Hawaii and Stax now. Think of the money you will save.
> ...


Indeed..and it really does like the end of the road for my electrostat journey. I've never noticed such good synergy between the Bimby and Asgard before. And it sound tonally correct, which makes it a huge bonus


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Indeed..and it really does like the end of the road for my electrostat journey. I've never noticed such good synergy between the Bimby and Asgard before. And it sound tonally correct, which makes it a huge bonus



Enjoy Ross... until I sell you my Yggdrasil and Ragnarok.

You have to come to Sydney to collect them.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Indeed..and it really does like the end of the road for my electrostat journey. I've never noticed such good synergy between the Bimby and Asgard before. And it sound tonally correct, which makes it a huge bonus



Ross hold that thought for a second. If Bimby and Asgard means the end of the journey for your electrostatic dream, imagine what Yggdrasil and Raganork will do.


----------



## mordy

While bike riding today on a an old railroad pier jutting into the Hudson River this thing pulled up:










But it is not what it seems to be - a 1929 Ford Model A coupe. Instead it is a replica car built in 1980 with a 4 cyl Ford Mustang underneath.
It looks soooo cute! Just wanted to share.....


----------



## UntilThen

This thing that pulled up is worth more than any head-fi in the world.


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> Ross hold that thought for a second. If Bimby and Asgard means the end of the journey for your electrostatic dream, imagine what Yggdrasil and Raganork will do.


Who knows it may not be my end game combo as it is yours...but best you send it to me to audition first


----------



## canthearyou

Someone have a pic of the inside of the 2017 Elise?


----------



## Rossliew

Hi all, can someone advise if it is safe to use 4 x EL3N as power coupled with 2 x C3G as drivers? Would this over tax the amp's capacity?


----------



## mordy

Rossliew said:


> Hi all, can someone advise if it is safe to use 4 x EL3N as power coupled with 2 x C3G as drivers? Would this over tax the amp's capacity?


Hi R,

Should be a piece of cake:
4x0.9A = 3.6A
2x0.4A = 0.8A
Total: 4.4A


----------



## Rossliew

mordy said:


> Hi R,
> 
> Should be a piece of cake:
> 4x0.9A = 3.6A
> ...


Many thanks, Mordy...i shall attempt this now


----------



## Rossliew (Aug 4, 2017)

Superb combo with the darker sounding HD600 - there is so much gain with the C3G tubes and it sounds airier with satisfying bass slam as well. Holographic mids without a hint of stridency up top. Wow!

Switching to the T1 Gen 2 and it sounds just as good. Wider soundstage yet retains that holographic mids. Not strident up top either. Very satisfying. Superb for classical pieces as well as some modern EDM tunes.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi R,
> 
> Should be a piece of cake:
> 4x0.9A = 3.6A
> ...



What this man says. A piece of cake. Many of the frankenstein combos are very good sounding. The mystery of Elise and Euforia.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Superb combo with the darker sounding HD600 - there is so much gain with the C3G tubes and it sounds airier with satisfying bass slam as well. Holographic mids without a hint of stridency up top. Wow!
> 
> Switching to the T1 Gen 2 and it sounds just as good. Wider soundstage yet retains that holographic mids. Not strident up top either. Very satisfying. Superb for classical pieces as well as some modern EDM tunes.



Careful Ross. At this rate, you will be rolling light bulbs soon. I fear for you.....


----------



## UntilThen

You didn't see this from me because I don't recommend non recommended tubes but they are like the forbidden apple. Hard to resist. Remember though, once you taste it, you will be naked and it will be Paradise Lost forever. There's no 'Oops, I made a mistake'. No 'sorry' in the world will erase it. So think carefully.....
This sounds pretty good. When I say 'pretty good', I'm being very conservative because I'm conservative today. Get me on another day and you will get a string of adjectives and expletives from me. 

2 x c3g as drivers and 4 x 6bl7 as power tubes.


----------



## Rossliew

Guess if the current draw is within specs, it shouldn't be a problem, no?


----------



## UntilThen

This is all the way from Kathmandu. It has mystic powers and what you hear will be a life changing experience. So again think carefully before using....

Fivre 6n7g brown case with Tung Sol 5998


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Guess if the current draw is within specs, it shouldn't be a problem, no?



Heh heh heh.... that's the layman's way of thinking. I'm not going to put my life on it. Ask Feliks Audio..... guess you already know the answer.


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 5, 2017)

And of course you have to see UT's original. I am the first to use this. This is all mine... well after this, I'll disown it. You'll see a string of copy cats later. Guess I was a bad influence. 

However this sound is very unique. It changes Elise and Euforia's tone completely. I half suspect that this does sound a bit like a 2A3 tube amp. One day when I get the chance to listen to the DNA Stratus. I'll know whether that's true....

However there's no denying that it looks gorgeous. UT's handiwork.

And Ross, now I've pass all the EL3N tubes and adapters to you. Try it. Once won't kill you.


----------



## UntilThen

This is the infamous ECC31 and Chatham 6520. All the tubes are now with you plus the adapters. Aside from the heat, this combo is really great. I paid US$200 for the pair of Mullard ECC31 and they are as good sounding as they are expensive. It's hard to find NOS ones now and that pair you have is NOS and low hours.


----------



## UntilThen

There was a time when I run this combo for a while. I call it the benchmark. It became the favourites of a few others too, namely @CITIZENLIN.

EL3N and Tung Sol 5998.


----------



## UntilThen

Lastly, this is my best tubes on Euforia. I consider this the pinnacle of my tube rolling. It's recommended tubes, outrageously expensive but the tone is just great. Euforia and Elise needs to be listen with these tubes just once.

Sylvania 6sn7w and Gec 6as7g.


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 5, 2017)

Lastly and finally, I have gone tubeless. With this combo, you don't need no tubes anymore. This has the sonic goodness of a tube amp plus the fast transient response and clarity of a good solid state amp. I'm an unashamedly converted fan now. In balance mode, this is unbelievable. I just spoke with young @Jimmyboei and he has the same setup. He was sharing the same impressions with me. Even ask me to get better xlr balance interconnects because it makes a difference.

So there you go. That's my postings done for this weekend and I can go back to listening to music. Happy listening all !


----------



## UntilThen

Oh if everything goes according to plan, I'd have bought a HD600 tomorrow.


----------



## UntilThen

canthearyou said:


> Someone have a pic of the inside of the 2017 Elise?



Nope you are not allowed to publish the innards of Elise here. It's patented and you will be sued with all the might of the US Treasury.


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> And of course you have to see UT's original. I am the first to use this. This is all mine... well after this, I'll disown it. You'll see a string of copy cats later. Guess I was a bad influence.
> 
> However this sound is very unique. It changes Elise and Euforia's tone completely. I half suspect that this does sound a bit like a 2A3 tube amp. One day when I get the chance to listen to the DNA Stratus. I'll know whether that's true....
> 
> ...


Have tried this last night. Need to listen again tonight as I've short memory span. 

I need the rest of them tubes ....those pics are gonna break the bank!


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> I need the rest of them tubes ....those pics are gonna break the bank!



Ross, I have not shown you all the tubes. If I did, you will be too hooked and your total posts will surpass mine. 

Anyway, if I'm to give up on tubes, I think you are the 'chosen one' to get it. 

Then I'll get the DNA Stratus or Glenn's OTL amp that runs 6x6BL7. Yup always been curious to know what a dedicated amp designed to run 6x6BL7 sounds like.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Ross, I have not shown you all the tubes. If I did, you will be too hooked and your total posts will surpass mine.
> 
> Anyway, if I'm to give up on tubes, I think you are the 'chosen one' to get it.
> 
> Then I'll get the DNA Stratus or Glenn's OTL amp that runs 6x6BL7. Yup always been curious to know what a dedicated amp designed to run 6x6BL7 sounds like.




The 6X6BL7 amp will sound good, real good...with the right power supply you can drop four 5998 tubes in it   

The EL3N amp is also stellar....Glenns amp runs these tubes really good.  
Can roll rectifiers too, any 5 volt pretty much works.
The trick to the EL3N tubes for me is that you can go thru a few of them to find a set you like, but when you do the reward is wonderful.


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 5, 2017)

whirlwind said:


> The 6X6BL7 amp will sound good, real good...with the right power supply you can drop four 5998 tubes in it
> 
> The EL3N amp is also stellar....Glenns amp runs these tubes really good.
> Can roll rectifiers too, any 5 volt pretty much works.
> The trick to the EL3N tubes for me is that you can go thru a few of them to find a set you like, but when you do the reward is wonderful.



Joe.... you will be the death of me. I'll have to spend more money because of you. 

6x6BL7.... hmmmm I still have 4x6BL7. Maybe I shouldn't sell off all my priceless power tubes to Ross. I will need it if I get Glenn's OTL 6x6BL7 amp. Ummm we need to give it a name. Maybe GOTL ? 

Hmmmm Glenn's EL3N .... but I just sold all my EL3N to Ross. 

Four 5998??? Well I have 3 now.... Maybe I can mix 5998 with 7236. 

Or run 2 x Gec 6as7g and 2 x Gec 6080. That's lavish !!!


----------



## whirlwind

I plead the 5th.  I do not want to be responsible for your thin wallet  
This place can thin it out in a hurry!

I would hate to think what Glenn's 300B or EL3N amp would cost to ship that far!


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Joe.... you will be the death of me. I'll have to spend more money because of you.
> 
> 6x6BL7.... hmmmm I still have 4x6BL7. Maybe I shouldn't sell off all my priceless power tubes to Ross. I will need it if I get Glenn's OTL 6x6BL7 amp. Ummm we need to give it a name. Maybe GOTL ?
> 
> ...




Yeah, the possibilities are endless, probably not a good thing for you....you will be buying more tubes, LOL.

The 6BL7 & 6BX7 is reasonably priced though, so that is the beauty of it...you really need no more, can just spend time building a couple nice sets you like and call it a day and enjoy the music.


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 5, 2017)

whirlwind said:


> I would hate to think what Glenn's 300B or EL3N amp would cost to ship that far!



I will have to go to USA and bring it back myself. 

Good news - my Forza Audioworks balanced headphone cables for HD800 and Eikon has been shipped out from Poland today. Excitement abounds. Now Zach has to make my Eikon faster. It's still awaiting sanding !!!

Oh yeah.... I may have gotten myself a HD600 .... at $230 I can't refuse.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> you really need no more, can just spend time building a couple nice sets you like and call it a day and enjoy the music.



I'll be honest. I could call it a day now. This Yggdrasil and Ragnarok setup is really good according to my ears. I could just listen to music now, switching in headphones. I am not alone. In the Yggdrasil and Ragnarok thread, there are a few people there who thinks the same too.

However I am always curious what a top class tube amp will sound like. If I don't try it I'll never know. So I am really curious to know how EC Zana Deux S, DNA Stratus, Glenn's OTL 6x6BL7 or Glenn's EL3N sounds like. It has to be only one though.

Not that I think Euforia is not good enough. Euforia is pretty good in comparison to all the amps I've heard. I have heard La Figaro 339, Violectric v281 and Woo Audio Wa22 and Wa33. I have also heard SimeAudio Moon 430 HAD. I have a good idea what the better amps sounds like. 

Woo Audio Wa33 with HiFiMan Susvara shows a lot of promise. Them bass and mid will rock you.


----------



## whirlwind

You can just sit back and roll headphones.

I plan on trying a few that I have always wanted to hear.

HD800 just scales so darn well, what a great headphone.

I need to stay out of the DSD store and save more each week .....


----------



## Rossliew

Matt, you just need one Glenn otl, one Glenn EL3N and one Glenn 300B and your set up is complete, period. 

Now gimme a quote on all those darn tubes of yours


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> You can just sit back and roll headphones.



Absolutely. I am afraid I will be spending more on headphones.  

I even get excited trying out Audeze LCD2.2 and Grado PS2000E. Sadly Fostex Th-900 didn't do it for me. I thought I was going to be blown away by the bass but the Susvara certainly was more forceful in the low frequencies. I was very impressed by the Grado PS2000E mid bass but at US$2695, it's an expensive Grado. 

You are right on HD800. I thought I was the only one who think that HD800 is great. It's an amazing headphone. Right weight. Great comfort and tone. A must for details lover. 

Right now though, I'm using HD650 in balanced mode on Yggy and Rggy. I could listen to this the whole day and night. Turn up the volume and your ears can literally bounce.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Matt, you just need one Glenn otl, one Glenn EL3N and one Glenn 300B and your set up is complete, period.



You are right. Stavros who has many amps, told me that Glenn's amps are amongst his better sounding amps and he has the EC Balancing Act too. In that context, I have a better idea.

I'll add the cost of all my tubes and multiply by 2.... then I will give you the quote. 

Tomorrow I'll line up all the power tubes for a photo shoot. Just for you.


----------



## xDaveyJ

I listend to a friends Euforia the other day and I must say  I much prefer the liquid, lush sound of the Elise, Micro detail is similar, Euforia sounds a bit leaner, slightly better staging.

I love how both are build, fantastic amps.


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> You are right. Stavros who has many amps, told me that Glenn's amps are amongst his better sounding amps and he has the EC Balancing Act too. In that context, I have a better idea.
> 
> I'll add the cost of all my tubes and multiply by 2.... then I will give you the quote.
> 
> Tomorrow I'll line up all the power tubes for a photo shoot. Just for you.


>.<


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Absolutely. I am afraid I will be spending more on headphones.
> 
> I even get excited trying out Audeze LCD2.2 and Grado PS2000E. Sadly Fostex Th-900 didn't do it for me. I thought I was going to be blown away by the bass but the Susvara certainly was more forceful in the low frequencies. I was very impressed by the Grado PS2000E mid bass but at US$2695, it's an expensive Grado.
> 
> ...




Are you kidding, there are many, many people who love the HD800 and HD6XX headphones...they have stood the test of time


----------



## UntilThen

xDaveyJ said:


> I listend to a friends Euforia the other day and I must say  I much prefer the liquid, lush sound of the Elise, Micro detail is similar, Euforia sounds a bit leaner, slightly better staging.
> 
> I love how both are build, fantastic amps.



You're the 2nd person who have presented Elise and Euforia in this manner. The other person is @Aornic . It's probably different ears, other gear in the chain or tubes. What I hear is Elise sounded leaner and Euforia is more texture and greater density of tone. However I respect others presentation. It's how we hear it. 

I agree with you too on Elise and Euforia built and clean and simple design. There's elegance in the simple design. Above all, I find them to be very refined tone. They may not have the bass weight of the La Figaro 339 but nevertheless I really like the fluid and liquid tone of the FA amps. To put it simply, it's not dry.


----------



## Rossliew

U want power, transparency and tube rolling flexibility, get a Glenn OTL amp, period.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Are you kidding, there are many, many people who love the HD800 and HD6XX headphones...they have stood the test of time



I think many love the HD6XX but I can't say the same for the HD800. We are probably the minority that love the HD800. However it fared very well in the Big Sound 2015 amongst all the headphones there.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> U want power, transparency and tube rolling flexibility, get a Glenn OTL amp, period.



I think I am done with tube rolling. I can't believe I got so deep in it with Elise and Euforia. With all that I spend on my tubes (plus adapters !!!), I could probably get a good tube amp.

As for power and transparency, who doesn't love it. Actually, details and clarity is more important for me. Soundstage and a solid, controlled bass too. Finally the tone. I just love tube amp tone. It comes in many flavours. Strangely the 2 solid state amps that I love (v281 and Rag) does sound a bit like tube amp.


----------



## xDaveyJ

UntilThen said:


> You're the 2nd person who have presented Elise and Euforia in this manner. The other person is @Aornic . It's probably different ears, other gear in the chain or tubes. What I hear is Elise sounded leaner and Euforia is more texture and greater density of tone. However I respect others presentation. It's how we hear it.
> 
> I agree with you too on Elise and Euforia built and clean and simple design. There's elegance in the simple design. Above all, I find them to be very refined tone. They may not have the bass weight of the La Figaro 339 but nevertheless I really like the fluid and liquid tone of the FA amps. To put it simply, it's not dry.


Tested both with stock tubes and various other parings and it always came away with the Euforia being lean, thin in the vocals. That said it's still a great amplifier, I've always been a big fan of lusher, more weightier vocals. I much prefer the tone of the Elise. The Euforia seems better for those who like a less tubey sounding amp IMO


----------



## UntilThen

xDaveyJ said:


> Tested both with stock tubes and various other parings and it always came away with the Euforia being lean, thin in the vocals. That said it's still a great amplifier, I've always been a big fan of lusher, more weightier vocals. I much prefer the tone of the Elise. The Euforia seems better for those who like a less tubey sounding amp IMO



That's interesting. I suppose both Elise and Euforia are burn in? Euforia's tone changes in the first 50 hours... at least.

However as I said, I respect others presentation. To my ears, Euforia has a wider soundstage, better micro dynamics and certainly a stronger bass. I think that's how @mordy hears it too.


----------



## Rossliew (Aug 5, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> I think I am done with tube rolling. I can't believe I got so deep in it with Elise and Euforia. With all that I spend on my tubes (plus adapters !!!), I could probably get a good tube amp.
> 
> As for power and transparency, who doesn't love it. Actually, details and clarity is more important for me. Soundstage and a solid, controlled bass too. Finally the tone. I just love tube amp tone. It comes in many flavours. Strangely the 2 solid state amps that I love (v281 and Rag) does sound a bit like tube amp.


Indeed! It's the tube rolling that gets to the wallet...the amps are just a prelude to it..


----------



## 2359glenn

A cording to the tubes you roll. You can get high quality 25SN7s for $4 US.
Or 7N7 and 14N7 Sylvania cheep compared to the same Sylvania 6SN7.


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> A cording to the tubes you roll. You can get high quality 25SN7s for $4 US.
> Or 7N7 and 14N7 Sylvania cheep compared to the same Sylvania 6SN7.



Can these tubes be used with the Elise safely, Glenn?


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> A cording to the tubes you roll. You can get high quality 25SN7s for $4 US.
> Or 7N7 and 14N7 Sylvania cheep compared to the same Sylvania 6SN7.



No kidding, the RCA 1633 smoked glass is a steal at that price.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> I think I am done with tube rolling. I can't believe I got so deep in it with Elise and Euforia. With all that I spend on my tubes (plus adapters !!!), I could probably get a *good tube amp*.



So none of the FA amps to which this thread is devoted are "good"?????


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Can these tubes be used with the Elise safely, Glenn?



You can safely use 7N7 with adapters. I don't know about the other tubes. 

I'm not fond of using adapters if I can help it.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> So none of the FA amps to which this thread is devoted are "good"?????



There will be different degrees of goodness. A Honda Accord is a good car. That doesn't mean there's no better.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Indeed! It's the tube rolling that gets to the wallet...the amps are just a prelude to it..



Indeed.


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 5, 2017)

Rossliew said:


> Can these tubes be used with the Elise safely, Glenn?



You should contact Feliks Audio regarding any tubes you're not sure about.

14N7 is 12.6 volts and 0.3 amp. Definitely cannot use in Elise. Unless you want to use external power supply, like FDD20 of long ago.

Similarly 12sn7 is 13 volts. So no go.

Elise drivers are suitable for 6.3 volts.

For any layman, it's dangerous to seek tubes that are not in Feliks Audio recommended tubes. There are still economical 6sn7 tubes. It's the better power tubes that are expensive.


----------



## Rossliew

Ah noted with thanks. Yes best not to venture too far into uncharted territories lol


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Ah noted with thanks. Yes best not to venture too far into uncharted territories lol



Correct. Some things you should never try..... like this...


----------



## UntilThen

Why must this guy tempt me? Does he not know I have a HD800 serial number #45699 ?

This is from the DNA Stratus thread....

_As someone previously said if you have the Stratus you owe it to yourself to get the HD800. I never thought I would buy a headphone twice but I'm glad I did with the HD800. I'm not sure if it's the P5, the better tubes or cables but the HD800 sounds like a real masterpiece now with the single plate tubes. This time I'm also going to hardwire them._


----------



## UntilThen

Ross, put on your most bad ass tubes and listen to this loud.


----------



## Rossliew

Didn't know you listened to Muse and its ilk  Listening with 4X EL3N as powers with the pair of Raytheon 6SN7s you sent with the final package all with the T1. Not enough heaviiosity but biting guitars aplenty! Not my preferred type of music though but listenable


----------



## UntilThen

I don't listen to Muse until I found it on my son's Fiio X5. He left that behind and there's a long playlist there. So now I'm also listening to Red Hot Chilli Peppers and of course John Mayer.

Try using 6 x EL3N. Tell me what you think.


----------



## Rossliew

Sound is much nicer through the HD600 - bass like there's no tomorrow! RHCP is good


----------



## UntilThen

Anyway I did a photo shoot of my jewels as promised. The only power tubes not there are Svetlana 6h13c and RCA 6080. They are with my son and the La Figaro 339. You can see I kept the best to myself. 

I think you can make out what they are.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Sound is much nicer through the HD600 - *bass like there's no tomorrow*!



Bravo ! You have learn the art of OTT. 

You are a natural.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> with the pair of Raytheon 6SN7s you sent



Ummm I did not send you Raytheon 6sn7. I send you a pair of Hitachi 6sn7gtb with the Raytheon boxes. 

Btw Hitachi 6sn7gtb are the real deal. I gave you 2 and I still have 2 left. It's a lively tone.


----------



## UntilThen

Here's my drivers. There are not many but what is there are good stuff. Personally hand picked by me. 

Ross, you can have my power and driver tubes if you take me to durian plantation for a year and let me eat all the durians I want. Of course, we will go to Genting too and try our luck at the casino. I will stay at your place and eat nasi lemak every day.


----------



## Rossliew

Hahahaha talk about OTT..that would break my bank without even needing to buy your tubes ! Guess I'll retreat into my shell and live the life of a hermit with only my bifrost/Asgard/hd600 combo. Bye bye all!


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> That's interesting. I suppose both Elise and Euforia are burn in? Euforia's tone changes in the first 50 hours... at least.
> 
> However as I said, I respect others presentation. To my ears, Euforia has a wider soundstage, better micro dynamics and certainly a stronger bass. I think that's how @mordy hears it too.


Hi xDJ and UT,

Interesting that my impressions are the exact opposite of xDJ - could be tubes used and burn-in time, but we all respect different opinions. I have both the Elise and the Euforia and can plug in my headphones into either one while playing the same tune. With the identical tubes the Elise always sounds leaner to me, and the Euforia more fleshed out, but they are quite close in sound.
One thing I have learned, being a member for several years, first of the Little Dot threads and later of the Feliks threads, is to identify forum members that hear things the same way as I do. So when they recommend something I know that I can rely on their impressions, and I find this very helpful and useful.
Sometimes I wonder if a persons age has to do with how he hears things. Once my 20 something son was here and I played a track for him (an old 78rpm recording). He asked me why there is a hiss, but I could not hear it.....


----------



## UntilThen

Haha yes @mordy I hear you. We both have the same impressions of Elise and Euforia. Elise definitely sounded leaner to me and that has nothing to do with age. 

Nevertheless it's what some of them hears and that's fine with me. It's just an impression. 

As we all know, both sounded good but Euforia is definitely a few leagues above Elise according to my ears.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,

Only 22 driver tubes and only 22 power tubes?

Did anybody compare the Yggdrasil to the Hugo 2 yet?


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Hahahaha talk about OTT..that would break my bank without even needing to buy your tubes ! Guess I'll retreat into my shell and live the life of a hermit with only my bifrost/Asgard/hd600 combo. Bye bye all!



You know jolly well that you will come out of your shell pretty soon. Just think about what my power tubes will do in your Elise. Buy that and I can put a deposit on either a DNA Stratus or a Glenn EL3N amp.  Then I have to wait one year while I survive on Yggy and Rggy and Euforia with stock tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Only 22 driver tubes and only 22 power tubes?
> 
> Did anybody compare the Yggdrasil to the Hugo 2 yet?



Wow did you count 22? That is sick !!! My Elise is (was) number #22. What a coincidence !!!

Both Yggdrasil and Hugo 2 are at the top of the pile. You can't go wrong with either. It boils down to personal preference if you ask me.


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> You know jolly well that you will come out of your shell pretty soon. Just think about what my power tubes will do in your Elise. Buy that and I can put a deposit on either a DNA Stratus or a Glenn EL3N amp.  Then I have to wait one year while I survive on Yggy and Rggy and Euforia with stock tubes.


Hahahaha! That means them little glowy glasses gonna cost a pretty penny or ten!


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Hahahaha! That means them little glowy glasses gonna cost a pretty penny or ten!



It ain't any little glowy glasses. These ones are vintage and will be more valuable than Bitcoins in 10 years time. In 20 years time, it will be worth more than the one billion dollars bank.


----------



## UntilThen

Meanwhile Head-Fi can wait while I get myself to the badminton hall and execute Lee Chong Wei's smash.


----------



## UntilThen

@mordy I'll tell you something interesting. For one week, I let my son have Elise while I took La Figaro 339 back home to listen. At the end of the week, I swap back the amps. Immediately my son told me that Elise sounded more warm and lush. La Figaro is tighter, tauter, wider soundstage and that solid bass weight that is infectious. Those were his words to me, listening with HE560. 

I agree with that impression completely. Before I got La Figaro 339, I was under the impression that it is a very warm and lush tube amp but hearing for myself is important. This is with all manner of tubes that I roll in LF339. I use all my best tubes in it, including Gec 6as7g, Bendix 6080wb, Gec 6080 and Tung Sol 5998. 

That is not to say one is better than the other to my ears. I am of the opinion that both are great sounding tube amps but with their own sonic signature. Very interesting indeed.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> One thing I have learned, being a member for several years, first of the Little Dot threads and later of the Feliks threads, is to *identify forum members that hear things the same way as I do*. So when they recommend something I know that I can rely on their impressions, and I find this very helpful and useful.



This is a basic but important thing to recognise.


----------



## UntilThen

Hehehe they are proposing another Sydney Meet in November 2017. I love meets, especially when I get to listen to new gear. This hobby is still very strong in my brain. I'm so ingrained. Somebody better bring along a DNA Stratus and a Glenn EL3N or OTL amp.... and maybe a EC Zana Deux Super? 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/can...ay-26-march-2017.832710/page-10#post-13643282


----------



## whirlwind

I think someone from your neck of the woods has a Glenn 300B amp...Tony, maybe, not sure.

You have some great tubes for your OTL amp.

With OTL amps powering high impedance headphones so well and you having the ZMF Eikon on the way , that is going to make for a great sound....then the Rag for a more dynamic sound.

Even though I have hardly used my OTL amp since the GEL3N has arrived, I know that at some point I will.

After having an OTL amp for a few years, I would not want to be without it.

It is really not necessary, but it is a sound that I really love and it suits my style of music perfectly...never harsh or sibilant and enough tubes to last a lifetime.

From the time that I bought my first amp, I always wanted an OTL...especially after hearing the HD800


----------



## xDaveyJ (Aug 6, 2017)

mordy said:


> Hi xDJ and UT,
> 
> Interesting that my impressions are the exact opposite of xDJ - could be tubes used and burn-in time, but we all respect different opinions. I have both the Elise and the Euforia and can plug in my headphones into either one while playing the same tune. With the identical tubes the Elise always sounds leaner to me, and the Euforia more fleshed out, but they are quite close in sound.
> One thing I have learned, being a member for several years, first of the Little Dot threads and later of the Feliks threads, is to identify forum members that hear things the same way as I do. So when they recommend something I know that I can rely on their impressions, and I find this very helpful and useful.
> Sometimes I wonder if a persons age has to do with how he hears things. Once my 20 something son was here and I played a track for him (an old 78rpm recording). He asked me why there is a hiss, but I could not hear it.....


Impressions will always vary a lot. I don't find the Eurfia to be an upgrade but a different take on the Elise. I always don't think the Euforia is worth the extra cosh over the Elise either. That said, I'm not saying the Euforia is overpriced, it's price about right, it's fantastic, I just think the Elise is actually under priced, I would probably put a price different of about 100 between them, you do get cleaner bass on the euforia, inherently cleaner, less laid back treble. I find resolution and overall micro detail to be similar, bass texture is slightly better on the Euforia, it's cleaner, Elise is wet, bloomy.
Bass was  cleaner on the Euforia. I see them as compliments, two flavours, the Euforia is for sure a bit cleaner

They're two different flavours of tube amps in my experience with them. Lush and warm vs probably more neutral, better extension at extremes but leaner, less bloomy and tubey. I'm a fan of lush and romantic sounding with that haunting effect on vocals and for me that Elise was the clear winner in that department.

Apart from the Eddie current ZD range, both are probably the best OTL's I've heard under 2.5K just top notch craftsmanship, experience and passion went into these.


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> So none of the FA amps to which this thread is devoted are "good"?????



Fortunately, pct, everyone already knows F-A's amps are VERY good, not just "good" lol!!  ...

And everyone _also_ knows there's always better...but that's another story, of course! ...


----------



## Rossliew

xDaveyJ said:


> I'm a fan of lush and romantic sounding with that haunting effect on vocals and for me that Elise was the clear winner in that department.
> .



I would agree with you on this - the Elise has that haunting effect with greater air around vocals and instruments..


----------



## mordy

Hi Howie13,

Welcome back to the thread! What's up?


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 6, 2017)

Seeing how this thread is spinning along freely with impressions of all kinds, I'm just going to let it roll on it's own and read all about the concept, development and delivery of Ragnarok, the solid state wonder amp that does headphones and speakers.

This is a fascinating read from Jason, the co-founder of Schiit Audio and former Vice-President of Sumo. I was surprised to learn that Ragnarok concept was born way back in 2009, way before Schiit was formed. This is a truly stunning amp. Having heard so many good amps recently, I have a better idea of where Elise and Euforia stands in the world of head-fi amps, whether they are tube amps or solid state.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...obable-start-up.701900/page-148#post-10812955

Ragnarok has 2000 hours of R&D put in by Jason, Dave and Mike - each. Amazing.


----------



## canthearyou

Now that my Elise is on its way to Poland for a rebuild, I need to get some tubes. Is there a pair of power and drivers that are unanimously agreed to be the best?


----------



## UntilThen

No. 

Depends on who you ask.


----------



## UntilThen

Things happened for a reason. Like why did I have Euforia and Ragnarok together. Well tonight I found out why. This is the setup I tried:-

Roon > Yggdrasil > Euforia (as preamp) > Ragnarok > HD650 balanced and HD800 in SE mode.

I've effectively dial a tube tone into Ragnarok. This is indeed the end of my search. This is my nirvana. Listening to Stevie Wonder, I wonder why he's called Wonder and why this setup sounds so 'Wonder' ful.


----------



## xDaveyJ

Personally I couldn't sale my Rag fast enough too thin and bright for my taste. I've never really liked Schiit gear apart from their Vali 2 and their DACs.


----------



## UntilThen

As I said, opinions vary wildly here.


----------



## xDaveyJ

Stating the obvious, the Rag is universally known as being a bit lean, just depends on if that's the sound you like.


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 7, 2017)

Again depends on who you ask. Go to the Schiit Yggdrasil and Ragnarok thread and they will disagree with you. This is just your opinion. It's not universal.

Similarly many of us here agree that Elise is leaner than Euforia but your opinion is the opposite. So you can see, opinions differ greatly here.

Besides many of us have lived with Elise and Euforia for a long time. We have listened to these amps a very long time.


----------



## xDaveyJ

canthearyou said:


> Now that my Elise is on its way to Poland for a rebuild, I need to get some tubes. Is there a pair of power and drivers that are unanimously agreed to be the best?


The Millard 6080's and Tungsol 6NS7 is a personal fav combo of mine. Lots of chewy texture, great body and is my personal vocal combo


----------



## xDaveyJ

UntilThen said:


> Again depends on who you ask. Go to the Schiit Yggdrasil and Ragnarok thread and they will disagree with you. This is just your opinion. It's not universal.
> 
> Similarly many of us here agree that Elise is leaner than Euforia but your opinion is the opposite. So you can see, opinions differ greatly here.


What makes your opinion more valid than mine?


----------



## UntilThen

xDaveyJ said:


> What makes your opinion more valid than mine?



I am simply stating we disagree. I am not even going to argue on subjective opinions with anyone. They are entitled to their opinions.


----------



## xDaveyJ

UntilThen said:


> I am simply stating we disagree. I am not even going to argue on subjective opinions with anyone. They are entitled to their opinions.


Well your the first to jump up by saying opions vary, twice now. We all know YMMV so why is there the need to keep defending yourself whenever someone has a different opinion to yourself? 

It just comes across as a bit insecure, like you're trying to convince yourself by highlighting the fact you don't agree. 

Also maybe keep Schiit impressions to the Schiit thread?


----------



## UntilThen

Not just my opinion alone. Mordy clearly stated that his opinion is clearly the opposite of yours too. I think you are the one getting defensive here.

You jump in and stated that it's a universal truth. That's hardly YMMV.

This thread as far as I'm concerned benefits comparisons of Elise / Euforia with other amps. I've at one time too spoke highly of La Figaro 339 here in comparison with FA amps. Likewise Woo Audio Wa22.

If you think this thread should be solely closeted with Elise and Euforia, then it becomes nothing but a fan club.


----------



## xDaveyJ (Aug 7, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> Not just my opinion alone. Mordy clearly stated that his opinion is clearly the opposite of yours too. I think you are the one getting defensive here.
> 
> You jump in and stated that it's a universal truth. That's hardly YMMV.
> 
> ...


Do you see what I mean? You've done it again. You're getting very sensitive about this and I don't know why, it's just gear.


Also you didn't compare the Rag you just went off about how it's your end game...that really should be kept to the Schiit thread to keep the S/N down. It's keeps the threads tidy, the S/N is already very high and adding to the problem doesn't help.

I get that judging by your gear and headphones you prefer a leaner more upper mid recessed sound(HD800) so your opinion is going to be different to someone like me who prefers a more fuller mid range, lush sound.


Don't take everything so personal.


----------



## UntilThen

I read that story with a smile Mordy. Thank you. Very interesting story indeed about that irate customer at Schiit. Jason is right. Not every customer is worth having.

So to continue with my reporting on the trial of using Euforia as preamp....  this is nothing new. Many have use Elise and Euforia as preamps and they worked exceedingly well. I even get a 'like' from Oshipao.  Thanks Osh. Hope your sale of Elise goes smoothly and keep me in the loop of what you will be eventually getting.  Going deeper into vinyl? 

Anyhoo, here's another picture of Euforia in action as a preamp, feeding Ragnarok. Very interesting tone indeed. You have the best of both worlds. Morale of the story. Never be afraid to experiment.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> I read that story with a smile Mordy. Thank you. Very interesting story indeed about that irate customer at Schiit. Jason is right. Not every customer is worth having.
> 
> So to continue with my reporting on the trial of using Euforia as preamp....  this is nothing new. Many have use Elise and Euforia as preamps and they worked exceedingly well. I even get a 'like' from Oshipao.  Thanks Osh. Hope your sale of Elise goes smoothly and keep me in the loop of what you will be eventually getting.  Going deeper into vinyl?
> 
> Anyhow, here's another picture of Euforia in action as a preamp, feeding Ragnarok. Very interesting tone indeed. You have the best of both worlds. Morale of the story. Never be afraid to experiment.


For the benefit and amusement of others, here is the story from the Shayit thread - much can be learned from it. The topic was: Which one is their worst customer?:
But first their customer service motto:
*We bend over backwards for our customers. *
*But we won’t be bent forwards.

"The worst customer ever wasn’t just bad. He was criminally bad.

Here’s what happened.

After work on Friday evening, I decided to check the customer service email. Until December 2013, I was the primary guy who answered customer service email, so this in itself wasn’t an unusual event.

What I found was disturbing, though—an email from a very, very irate customer who had ordered a B-stock Mjolnir. Back in those days, we sold B-stock manually, by individual inquiry. If someone wanted B-stock, they had to email us, we told them the price, and if they were interested, we sent them a PayPal invoice.

Aside: today, all B-stock is sold through Amazon.

Apparently I’d sent them an invoice, and they’d paid for it. However, we didn’t ship the Mjolnir the same day, as requested. This also isn’t unusual, since we quote a 1-3 business day shipping time on in-stock items that aren’t ordered with expedited shipping.

But that didn’t matter to this guy. He was livid. I mean, full-boat, cartoon-steam-whistle-out-the-
ears, screaming red-faced rage. In acidic sentences strung in all-caps, he told us what a terrible company we were for not shipping it right away, expressed his extreme displeasure with our customer service, questioned our competence in an overall manner, and made various other personal assertions relating to our lack of professionalism and discipline.

And, to top it all off, he told me that Alex was the worst person in the universe, he didn’t care about him as a customer, and had never returned the emails he’d sent earlier in the day.

In a perfect, algorithmic, Mr. Spock-driven world, I would have tweaked an eyebrow and said, “Curious,” then investigated this incident in a dispassionate manner.

Humans don’t work this way, though. I was pissed. I’d been called an incompetent idiot. Alex had been called much, much worse.

So, I bit back my first response and emailed Alex, asking if he’d replied to the guy’s emails.

Alex sent me a long string of increasingly irate emails, beginning at 10 that morning—all responded to in less than 10 minutes by Alex.

Okay. That’s all I needed to know. Screw Spock and dispassionate logic. This guy was a butthead of the first caliber. What could we do?

I called Alex. “What can we do about this guy?”

“If it were me, I’d give him a refund and invite him never to be a customer again.”

“Can we do that?” I asked.

“I can have FedEx re-route his shipment back to us.”

I only had to think for about a millisecond. “Do it. I’ll refund his money, then he’s a non-customer.”

“Done,” Alex said, and went off to do what he does with shipping. He came back a few minutes later via email. “Done and done.”

Cool. I went into PayPal and refunded all of his money. We’d be out the shipping and rerouting fees, of course, but that was a small price to pay to be rid of him.

Aside: seriously, I am saving your mind by not posting the emails here. They were seriously, pathologically disturbed. This guy was, no crap, going to lose his mind because his amp shipped a day late.

There we go. Package rerouted, money refunded, done. Right?

Wrong.

The guy came back to me about 10 minutes later on email, even more livid than before. He’d noticed that we refunded his money, and wanted to know what was going on. (But with about 10000x more expletives and rage.)

I sent him a pleasant email in return, saying something like:

Dear Butthead (actually his real name),

We have refunded your purchase in full and re-routed the shipment of your B-stock Mjolnir. We have done this because you are so disappointed with our service to date. If you are this unhappy now, we have no confidence that we will ever be able to make you happy. We believe this parting is for the best, and wish you luck in finding the perfect component to meet your needs.

Sincerely,

Jason, etc.

Oh, boy, was he ever pissed. After four or five more irate emails, Alex and I seriously wondered if we’d meet a guy with a lead pipe at the office on Monday morning.

But Saturday was quiet—no emails.

And Sunday was the same.

And nobody was waiting to jump us on Monday.

So, end of story, right?

Oh no.

About a week later, Alex starts wondering where that Mjolnir went. It had never come back to us. And it had only been shipping within California, so it should have come back quickly.

He checked the shipping record, and quickly found the problem: the guy we’d shipped it to had called FedEx himself and rerouted it to a FedEx office, then picked it up.

Yes, the guy we refunded and finalized the transaction, so we couldn’t charge against his card again.

“What do you want me to do?” Alex asked me, his eyes dark and murderous.

“Whatever you want,” I said.

Luckily, Alex is very good at internet forensics. Through this guy’s multiple email addresses, he was able to track down his LinkedIn, his business website (yes, he had his own business), and his Facebook page. On his Facebook page, in plain view, was a photo of the Mjolnir.

Alex sent an email (and a registered letter) to the guy’s main business address, demanding payment for the Mjolnir within 72 hours—or a visit from the sheriff’s department.

He tried to play it off: “Thank you for the gift of the Mjolnir, in compensation for your poor customer service,” the smug person emailed.

We reiterated that it was clearly not a gift, and repeated the timetable. Pay, or see how having a criminal record for grand theft felt.

Over the next few days, we endured various emails about what terrible people we were, our relationship with our mothers, how we had small body parts, etc. None were responded to, save to remind him of the time ticking away.

I really thought we’d have to get the police involved, but on the last day, he blinked. He paid for the Mjolnir.

And that, really, was that.

However—if he ever orders anything else, it won’t be shipped. If that Mjolnir comes in for service, he will be getting a check for full value in return, and we’re keeping the amp. We don’t need customers like that. Ever. For any reason.

Starting a business? Working with customers? Repeat after me: not every customer is worth having."

*


----------



## UntilThen

This little gadget is wonderful. Now that I have most of my headphone cables switched to 4pins xlr balanced, I need a way to connect to Euforia for when I want to listen directly to a tube amp. No surprise here as I have been listening to tube amps for 2 years and I'm still a tube amp lover.

So this xlr to 1/4 adapter which doesn't cost much, allows me to do just that. 

@canthearyou  I did not really answer your question of what tube combos is best for Elise. Well my answer is quite correct. There really is no definitive best combo. Depending on who listens to it and depending on your mood and the genre you listen to, you can get practically any tube combinations and they will sound good on Elise and Euforia. The tubes in picture are stock Psvane 6sn7 and Rca 6as7g, which gives a very rich, warm and lush tone. In short, Elise / Euforia are immensely tuneable.


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks Mordy for relisting that post from Jason. It's an important and practical lesson for our world today. You simply can't please everyone. Sometimes you just have to let it go.


----------



## UntilThen

canthearyou said:


> Now that my Elise is on its way to Poland for a rebuild, I need to get some tubes. Is there a pair of power and drivers that are unanimously agreed to be the best?



I could list you a lot of tube combinations that sounds good. Really depends on your budget. Without making you more confused I'll just list 3 of varying prices.

1. Psvane 6sn7 and Mullard 6080
2. Sylvania 6sn7wgt and Bendix 6080wb
3. Sylvania 6sn7w and Gec 6as7g

The last is the most expensive but also my favourite. 

Ok make it 4.

4. 7N7 with adapters and Tung Sol 5998.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I think someone from your neck of the woods has a Glenn 300B amp...Tony, maybe, not sure.



Hi Joe, Tony does indeed live in Australia but Australia is a continent. If he lives on the other side of the coast from me, then we are really very far apart. 

Besides, it's best not to meet Tony. He goes through far too many expensive gear. 

On your thoughts about OTL amps, I couldn't agree more. Why do you think I have Elise, Euforia and La Figaro 339 ... well Elise for a good 1.5 years. I have been fascinated by OTL because the driver and power tubes changes the tone quite immensely. It's great for tube rolling but bad for your pocket. After 2 years of tube rolling, I've settle down to just listening to music.


----------



## oshipao

UntilThen said:


> I read that story with a smile Mordy. Thank you. Very interesting story indeed about that irate customer at Schiit. Jason is right. Not every customer is worth having.
> 
> So to continue with my reporting on the trial of using Euforia as preamp....  this is nothing new. Many have use Elise and Euforia as preamps and they worked exceedingly well. I even get a 'like' from Oshipao.  Thanks Osh. Hope your sale of Elise goes smoothly and keep me in the loop of what you will be eventually getting.  Going deeper into vinyl?
> 
> Anyhoo, here's another picture of Euforia in action as a preamp, feeding Ragnarok. Very interesting tone indeed. You have the best of both worlds. Morale of the story. Never be afraid to experiment.



No problem UT  Actually, I am not sure what to do next. But I am keeping my record player, that is for sure 

Btw, I love Harbeths. Want a pair really bad.


----------



## UntilThen

oshipao said:


> No problem UT  Actually, I am not sure what to do next. But I am keeping my record player, that is for sure
> 
> Btw, I love Harbeths. Want a pair really bad.



I'm sure you will find your lovely setup eventually and the turntable is a good starting point.

I was talking about KEF LS50 in the Ragnorak thread when this guy mention Harbeths. When I look it up, I realise they are very good speakers indeed.


----------



## oshipao

UntilThen said:


> I'm sure you will find your lovely setup eventually and the turntable is a good starting point.
> 
> I was talking about KEF LS50 in the Ragnorak thread when this guy mention Harbeths. When I look it up, I realise they are very good speakers indeed.



 I think so anyway, but have only heard the SHL5. I like boxes


----------



## UntilThen

I love turntable too. Just using the Denon DP300f now.

Could have gotten a good turntable for the price of Yggdrasil


----------



## canthearyou

Thanks for the replies. I can't wait to get her back!


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 7, 2017)

canthearyou said:


> Thanks for the replies. I can't wait to get her back!



FA will probably do to your Elise what they do to mine if you ask them but it will cost you.

I ask Lukasz to make it new again. They literally change everything except the chassis and transformer plus implement the upgrades to Elise 2017 model.

You will be happy.

When I got Elise back, she was super quiet with no noise or hum of any sort, regardless of volume.


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 7, 2017)

I'm waiting on 2 Forza Audioworks balance cables to arrive. I'm also waiting on ZMF Eikon to arrive.

This will complete my setup. After which, I will finish my write-up on the power tubes.

I will also summarise my comparisons of Elise / Euforia with all the amps I have heard so far. These include La Figaro 339, Woo Audio Wa22, Violectric v281, Ragnarok, SimeAudio Moon 430HAD and Woo Audio Wa33, Woo Audio Wa2, Woo Audio Wa6SE.

Then UT will bid you all farewell. It's been a good 2 years. I've met a lot of good friends, including so many private messages. I have enjoyed all of those interactions.


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

Looks like bring your amp to work day 

(I have a Violectric V281 loan unit at home for the moment so the Espressivo has come to work for a bit, and is happy in the demo room)


----------



## canthearyou

UntilThen said:


> I'm waiting on 2 Forza Audioworks balance cables to arrive. I'm also waiting on ZMF Eikon to arrive.
> 
> This will complete my setup. After which, I will finish my write-up on the power tubes.
> 
> ...



You think you can just up and leave?


----------



## UntilThen

Oscar-HiFi said:


> Looks like bring your amp to work day
> 
> (I have a Violectric V281 loan unit at home for the moment so the Espressivo has come to work for a bit, and is happy in the demo room)



I have not heard the Espressivo but it sure looks like a good value tube amp. Driving a HD800S too.


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 10, 2017)

canthearyou said:


> You think you can just up and leave?



Are you missing me already? 

Well I was enjoying some solitude, listening to my music (George Benson - White Rabbit), which gets better and better as the gear 'settles in' ....

My Forza Audioworks arrived yesterday and I was using the HD800 in balance mode at home for the first time. The cable is all that I hope it will be. It's the right length (1.5m), flexible, soft braided cloth material and looks beautiful on HD800. As for sound, I'll hold off impressions till I've got some hours on it ....



... and the beautiful and lightweight cables. So well made.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm so mesmerised with Ragnarok's performance at the moment. This is why I've been away for a few days and will probably continue to take much longer breaks from here. 

Here are some notable quotes about the Ragnarok.... (usually I do my own impressions in my own words but these quotes are pretty spot on). I could not agree more after comparing Ragnarok with all the amps (whether tube or solid state) that I have heard.

"This is the most seductive solid-state amp I've ever heard", "There are tube like qualities with Rag. Smoothness, resolution, clarity, details", "The Ragnarok is truly an end-game amp", "the beauty of the Rag's treble is its honesty without adding anything"

Schiit Ragnarok – Best solid-state amp in headphonia and the only one I think is capable of competing with the great tube amps. Highly resolving and must be careful with source. With the right pieces in place, the smoothest sounding amp, solid-state or tube I have ever heard. And with solid-state cleanness, clarity, and tautness. Best solid-state amp for HD800 period.


----------



## Rossliew

Hmm could be the Yggy contributing a lot to that smoothness as well


----------



## UntilThen

It's the Yggy and Rggy combo no doubt. It's the whole system and that includes HD800


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

UntilThen said:


> I have not heard the Espressivo but it sure looks like a good value tube amp. Driving a HD800S too.



Drives them with ease, volume around 10 O'clock, and sounds excellent


----------



## UntilThen

I bought a brand new Audeze LCD2.2 today from Addicted To Audio together with an Omega headphone stand. I audition the LCD2.2 with Focal Elear but prefer the LCD2.2, which has a more solid bottom end. The Audeze bass is unbeatable. Elear is more mid centric and mid bass. Sounds very good too but it's more forward. In choosing a headphone to contrast with my HD800, I felt that the LCD2.2 is a better choice for me. Remember this is for me and no one else. 

This is truly the end of search for me. LCD2.2 sounds really lovely with Yggy / Rggy or Euforia. I'm really surprised that Euforia drove the LCD2.2 so well. Drove it with ease and sounds amazing. Volume is only at 10 to 10.5 and it's loud. Now waiting on Euforia to surprise me with Eikon.

There's still the ZMF Eikon incoming but my one xlr balance cable from Forza Audioworks can be used with both LCD2.2 and Eikon.

Pictures later.


----------



## UntilThen

LCD2.2 unboxing. 

Pelican case. Tough as a nut.


----------



## UntilThen

Nicely packed. Foam cut to size. This is ideal for transporting to Meet.


----------



## UntilThen

Putting the planar magnetic to the test on Euforia and Ragnarok. Why did it take me so long to buy this headphone? It's luscious and that bass.... deep and low. You feel it in your chest. As I said, Elear feels higher up at mid bass and up but LCD2.2 gets low while maintaining a lovely mid and non fatiguing highs. Comfort wise, it is surprisingly ok. The clamp is just right out of the box. Not too tight and not too loose. I got the Shedua wood and it's lovely. Much better than the previous bamboo version. The more expensive version is the Rosewood, which is a dark reddish brown colour. I think the Shedua wood from tropical west Africa is exotic and nice and it's $200 cheaper.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm retiring T1 and HD650. These 2 with the incoming ZMF Eikon will be the main stay of my headphones. Whilst HD800 is at one extreme (analytical and revealing) and the LCD2.2 (warm and lush) at the other extreme, I have a feeling that the Eikon is somewhere in between those 2. It will be interesting.


----------



## UntilThen

Preliminary findings seems to favour LCD2.2 with Euforia than Ragnarok. Very strange but my ears gravitate towards the sound produced by Euforia and LCD2.2. It is so luscious and there's bounce in the tone. Again the bass is infectious. It's deep and low. You will feel it. I love it. This alone is the reason I chose LCD2.2 over Elear. However Elear in the flesh looks superb. It is so well made. So classy and so comfortable. I almost bought Elear too.... 

I need much longer listen. Like 2 weeks. Let the headphone burn in good. The new Forza Audioworks cable too. Both headphone and cable are fresh out of the box. So disregard my initial ramblings.


----------



## UntilThen

The pads on the LCD2.2 are incredibly comfortable. Those lambskins are so soft and it's the best material ever to rest on my ears. Big brownie points to Audeze. Even in 2017, I think the LCD2.2 still looks so classy and retro and the tone is unique. This headphone is for listening to music. Forget about measurements and hearing every single details. Norah Jones has never sound so close and intimate to my ears. This is getting dangerously exotic.


----------



## UntilThen

Omg, 'The Pump' by Jeff Beck came on and my eyes rolled. I'm in a trance now. I'm going to listen to every blues in my library. This is going to be a fun night. Dang I still need to wrap up the Darkvoice 336se, which I have sold to someone here yesterday. 

Leonard Cohen came alive !!! That voice on LCD2.2 with Euforia !!! It's a match made in heaven.


----------



## UntilThen

This might be the reason LCD2.2 paired so well with Euforia. 70 ohms. 101dB efficiency.

*Specifications*
Style Open circumaural
Transducer type Planar magnetic
Magnetic structure Proprietary push-pull design
Magnet type Neodymium
Transducer size 106 mm
Maximum power handling 15W (for 200ms)
Sound pressure level >130dB with 15W
Frequency response 5Hz – 20kHz extended out to 50kHz
Total harmonic distortion <1% through entire frequency range
Impedance 70 ohms
Efficiency 101dB / 1mW
Optimal power requirement 1 – 4W


----------



## UntilThen

Listening to LCD2.2 with Yggy and Rggy now. Big smile on my face. As euphonic as Euforia but tighter and with better control. 

I can't decide which I like more... with Rag or Euforia. Both tone are superb. 

Now the big question is.... how will ZMF Eikon compare to Audeze LCD2.2. I will find out in a month's time.... at the rate the ZMF are being churned out. Can't complained. Boutique setup needs more time and in this game one needs patience.


----------



## Rossliew

Thanks for the pics and impressions of the 2.2. Makes me wanna go out and get a pair myself..


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 13, 2017)

I just learn that mine is the LCD-2f. See here for the revisions.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audeze-lcd-2-impressions-thread.509710/page-744#post-13657159

As it stands, I'm one of those who felt that Audeze did the right thing with the changes. There's more details now and the bass is still as prominent to my ears. Plus the mids... vocals are just stunning.

Ross, get a LCD2 of any versions. Elise will drive it perfectly. Euforia did, so I see no reasons why Elise won't. FYI, @HPLobster  loves his LCD-3 driven by Elise too.


----------



## UntilThen

You have to see the headphone in the flesh. The Shedua wood is really nice. The grains... I can't believe this is the cheaper version. At first I thought it's the Caribbean Rosewood.


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> You have to see the headphone in the flesh. The Shedua wood is really nice. The grains... I can't believe this is the cheaper version. At first I thought it's the Caribbean Rosewood.



Nice! Didn't know they had this wood option. I once had the pre-razor rosewood version. Nice sounding but gets kinda overly dark/veiled at times. and the weight...


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Nice! Didn't know they had this wood option. I once had the pre-razor rosewood version. Nice sounding but gets kinda overly dark/veiled at times. and the weight...



If you consider the pre-Fazor a bit dark/ veiled at times, then the Fazor LCD-2f will suit you better. As for weight, I can't help you with that. I suggest you exercise your neck and grow stronger muscles. Seriously, after months of wearing LCD-2f and Eikon, I will have biceps looking muscles on my neck.


----------



## UntilThen

2nd day of listening to the LCD-2f with both Euforia and Ragnarok. Strangely I'm gravitating towards Euforia with this planar magnetic. Don't let anyone tell you it won't drive the LCD-2f well. Euforia is driving it supremely. I am in the mood of rolling my best power tubes in Euforia, just to hear how it will affect LCD-2f. I have Sylvania 6sn7wgt and Tung Sol 5998 on at the moment and listening to Pink Floyd Pulse live. I'll toast you on this incredible sounding setup. Euforia is one brilliant sounding tube amp and kudos to Feliks Audio for this marvellous sounding OTL amp. When you hear UT praising Euforia after going through a lot of amps lately, you know that Euforia still has a place in my heart. It's keeping with the best out there. Roll in good tubes and see her shine like crazy diamonds.

In case you're wandering, Euforia is staying in my setup. She ain't going anywhere, neither are those precious tubes.


----------



## Rossliew

Glad you've found your end-game set-up and with both solid state and tubed options as well


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Glad you've found your end-game set-up and with both solid state and tubed options as well



Everyone needs to determine when it's the end. If you don't, the end will consume you. 

You will know when it's the end. You will know it. You will feel it. You will hear it.


----------



## UntilThen

I made another small purchase. I bought a pair of Mogami xlr balance interconnects. This cable will sing the blues - literally.


----------



## UntilThen

Like I say, I'm going through my tubes again ..... for the vintage looking Audeze LCD-2f. I don't know what to make of the Audeze looks. It's vintage, connoisseur but most of all sounding organic, euphonic and holographic. This headphone caress your ears, both in feel and tone. There is no hint of sibilance and harshness here. It's just baby's bottom smoothness but the bass is not baby in any way. I wouldn't call it super strong bass but it has impact, bloom in a very controlled way and you feel it in your chest and lower gut. Put on a bass track and turn up the volume and enjoy a body massage.

Today's tubes with LCD-2f. Sylvania 6sn7wgt and Gec 6080. This is a jaw dropping moment. Worthy of any description, mild or extreme.  Soundstage is widened, it's more airy and at the same time, there's more bass punch. Super clear in the high notes and the mids are gorgeous. You want it 'just right' warm and lushness, this is it. This is Marilyn Monroe wrapping her arms and legs around you.


----------



## UntilThen

Listening to this boom ba boom ba boom on the above setup and it's a spine tingling moment.


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> Everyone needs to determine when it's the end. If you don't, the end will consume you.
> 
> You will know when it's the end. You will know it. You will feel it. You will hear it.


Hmm..I may have found mine too..but regrettably the Elise may not be part of it..


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 14, 2017)

Do tell. 

Let me guess. You bought Stax.


----------



## Rossliew

Been having A/B sessions with my Stax rig and yeah despite the nice holographic imaging of the Elise, that tube bloom the Stax seems to get the entire spectrum right. And that bass - gut thumping!

Anyone here want the Elise?


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 14, 2017)

If you have to go Stax may I suggest SR007 and Blue Hawaii.

But think of the LCD-2f and Elise bass you will be missing.... and the seductive vocals.

Anyone buying your Elise will be in for a treat. It's better than new plus it has gone around the world lol.


----------



## Rossliew

I already have the L300/Carbon combo which is pretty decent. With the BHSE I would probably get a bit more mid range tube magic but at almost triple the price, it doesn't look so tempting...unless I strike the lottery  

Next step..who knows, 007 perhaps. Yes I may miss the Elise and I have to state it does have its own unique flavours and doesn't sound bad with affordable tubes. I do love it but keeping it idle is such a waste.


----------



## UntilThen

L300 and Srm 252 combo is US $789.

Maybe I will get it and see what the fuss is all about.


----------



## Rossliew

I bought that combo whilst waiting for the Carbon to be built. I have to say it's really good for the money and an affordable entry into the world of Stax


----------



## UntilThen

I have on Sylvania 6sn7wgt and Gec 6as7g now in Euforia. LCD-2f is firing on 4 pistons and sounding like Cassandra Wilson and Holly Cole combined.

This is the real thing.


----------



## UntilThen

I can relate to this review, having heard HD600, HE500 and now LCD-2f.

http://mclements.net/Mike/mrc-blog/blog-140403.html


----------



## Rossliew

I prefer the mid bass hump of my HD600/T1 rather than the sub-bass of the planers...


----------



## mordy

I always had a desire to buy a set of noise cancelling headphones for those long flights (that I take very rarely - maybe 2-3 times a year). 
Bose? $300 and up? Too much...
So this is what I bought:







https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826922001

These headphones have the name Nakamichi on them - used to be a very prestigious brand back then; don't know about them today.

The headphones can be used as regular ones; switching on two AAA batteries built into the left earcup activates the noise cancelling feature. The manufacturer claims that ambient noise is reduced by 85% and I am inclined to agree. After trying them in my home with a radio on I think think that they will drown out the airplane noise at 35000 feet. Fairly comfortable to wear as well.

Using them without the noise cancelling feature the sound is dark and OK sounding. Activating the noise cancelling circuit totally changes the sound: louder and more detailed and much brighter - not bad at all. The bass is what was called in the old days "subjective."
The manual speaks of a hissing sound with the noise cancelling feature on - supposed to be normal. At my age I cannot hear it, so it is fine with me.

These cans are not a HD800, but quite decent and pleasant and should be fine for traveling in a noisy environment. One earcup has a built in volume control next to the convenient noise cancelling switch. Good volume with iPhone as well.

The current price is $25  on sale ("list" price $80) including shipping (comes with a detachable cable, case and 1/4" adapter). I paid $18 last week on a promotion. I think I am cured of my desire for a Bose.....


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> I prefer the mid bass hump of my HD600/T1 rather than the sub-bass of the planers...



I've Eikon and Atticus incoming that should satisfy any cravings for bass humps.


----------



## UntilThen

A Mojo appeared on my horizon and surprised me at how well it drove both HD800 and LCD-2f on it own. The next step is to connect it to Euforia and see how they perform. 

The lights on Mojo are very captivating.  It's like a very nice toy. So small and cute.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> A Mojo appeared on my horizon and surprised me at how well it drove both HD800 and LCD-2f on it own. The next step is to connect it to Euforia and see how they perform.
> 
> The lights on Mojo are very captivating.  It's like a very nice toy. So small and cute.


Hi UT,

I am waiting to hear how it works with the Euforia..... Can the Mojo be used as a preamp?


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> I am waiting to hear how it works with the Euforia..... Can the Mojo be used as a preamp?



Don't think you can use Mojo as a preamp but you can certainly use Mojo as a dac into Elise or Euforia.

@Lord Raven is using Mojo with Elise. I have been talking to him.


----------



## UntilThen

What surprise me was that the little Mojo sounded clear and detail, a hint of warm and nice bass. It is musical to my ears. This is my initial impressions of Mojo with hd800 and lcd2f.


----------



## UntilThen

Good as the Mojo is as dac/amp driving hd800, hd650 and lcd-2f, when I switch back to Yggdrasil feeding Ragnarok and Euforia, there is simply no contest. Game, set and match over.

This setup is pure magic to my ears:-

Roon > Yggdrasil > Ragnarok or Euforia > hd800, hd650 and lcd-2f. 

Rag is tighter, faster, tauter and have great control. Drum beats have an urgency. Euforia is more lush, more textured and more bloom but in a good way. Take your poison. Both sounded great to my ears but I have a preference for Yggy and Rggy combo.


----------



## canthearyou

It's been almost 20 days since I mailed my Elise to Poland for repairs. According to the tracking and no email from Henryk it still hasn't made it there yet. I'm assuming the worse that its lost and losing faith. So to ease the pain I decided to purchase a Cavalli Liquid Carbon. I hope this holds me off and my Elise finally makes it to its destination and that Feliks gets it back in my hands ASAP.


----------



## UntilThen

canthearyou said:


> It's been almost 20 days since I mailed my Elise to Poland for repairs. According to the tracking and no email from Henryk it still hasn't made it there yet. I'm assuming the worse that its lost and losing faith. So to ease the pain I decided to purchase a Cavalli Liquid Carbon. I hope this holds me off and my Elise finally makes it to its destination and that Feliks gets it back in my hands ASAP.



I kind of feel sorry for you. How can it get lost? I send mine back to Poland without issues. I had it registered and with tracking.


----------



## DecentLevi

canthearyou said:


> It's been almost 20 days since I mailed my Elise to Poland for repairs. According to the tracking and no email from Henryk it still hasn't made it there yet. I'm assuming the worse that its lost and losing faith. So to ease the pain I decided to purchase a Cavalli Liquid Carbon. I hope this holds me off and my Elise finally makes it to its destination and that Feliks gets it back in my hands ASAP.



I'll add my few cents too. I experienced the same issue sending my Elise back to Poland a while back, and again this year getting my Euforia from Poland to the US... IIRC each time they were held up to a few weeks in customs, then slowly but surely made it through.

I also used to have the Liquid Carbon amp. Compared to the Elise it was basically no contest, with the Elise having more details, dynamics, stage and more overall realism, even more that the LC in balanced mode. Then after this year's CanJam, along came my discovery of the Little Labs amp called MONOTOR, which to me had better dynamics than the Elise with more 'snap' to the drums, yet a slightly smaller soundstage... that is to say it completely smeared the Liquid Carbon in every regard, now being superior to the Elise _(in some ways, IMHO anyway)_, whereas the LC never matched the Elise. Yet I'd still take the Euforia anyday for any song above the LC, MONOTOR or Elise for a greater overall performance on all attributes. However I must add I have heard there is a version two of the LC which I heard is an improvement from the original, which I have yet to hear. 

But when it comes to sound design / studio monitoring I always go for the MONOTOR amp, being a solid state amp means more neutral closer to how the end-user may hear it.


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 23, 2017)

Still haven't gotten a chance to go through this thread yet at all in the rush of overseas life, but I did notice @UntilThen got an Audeze LCD-2! BRAVO!! Was any part of it owed to my previous praise of their pairing with the Elise? Certainly they had great synergy, and I'm sure they would pair even better yet with the Euforia and/or Rangarok. Their handling and of bass is both authoritive and almost limitless, as well as their soundstage. I'm not 100% sold on their handling of dynamics / detail, but it's definitely worthy of end-game status on the right setup.

PS- did you trade in all your other 'cans for the LCD2.2? It's also a nice step up from the HE-560, isn't it?


----------



## canthearyou

DecentLevi said:


> I'll add my few cents too. I experienced the same issue sending my Elise back to Poland a while back, and again this year getting my Euforia from Poland to the US... IIRC each time they were held up to a few weeks in customs, then slowly but surely made it through.
> 
> I also used to have the Liquid Carbon amp. Compared to the Elise it was basically no contest, with the Elise having more details, dynamics, stage and more overall realism, even more that the LC in balanced mode. Then after this year's CanJam, along came my discovery of the Little Labs amp called MONOTOR, which to me had better dynamics than the Elise with more 'snap' to the drums, yet a slightly smaller soundstage... that is to say it completely smeared the Liquid Carbon in every regard, now being superior to the Elise _(in some ways, IMHO anyway)_, whereas the LC never matched the Elise. Yet I'd still take the Euforia anyday for any song above the LC, MONOTOR or Elise for a greater overall performance on all attributes. However I must add I have heard there is a version two of the LC which I heard is an improvement from the original, which I have yet to hear.
> 
> But when it comes to sound design / studio monitoring I always go for the MONOTOR amp, being a solid state amp means more neutral closer to how the end-user may hear it.



I just got an email from Lukasz regarding my Elise. It's being held in customs and they need more info from me for release.

And the info you provided about the LC is not what I wanted to hear. I wanted a balanced amp so I can use it along with Elise. I might try to back out of the sale and just by a new Elise.


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 23, 2017)

Or just get a MONOTOR amp for the same price as LC; or even cancel both amps for the Euforia which does it as good as both amps combined.

EDIT: the MONOTOR is going for $540 vs. $900+ (now) for the Liquid Carbon


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 23, 2017)

@DecentLevi  you woke me from my slumber. I am too content here listening to music. I have taken a permanent recess from posting. To say that I'm getting a mountain top experience is an understatement. It's more like a blast to outer space. 

The last 3 months I went nuts, buying head-fi gear but every purchase is carefully planned. I knew exactly what I wanted. Some pieces I wasn't so sure until I had extended audition. So chronologically, this is how is all started.

3 months ago - purchase Yggdrasil and HD800 after auditioning Yggdrasil + Ragnarok + HD800 at Addicted To Audio (A2A) in Newton, Sydney. This combination is stunning.
A month later - went back to A2A on 3 occasions for a lengthy audition of Ragnarok vs Violectric v281 using Yggdrasil and balance HD800 & LCD-2f. Bought Ragnarok after the 3rd audition.
A week later - went back to A2A and audition LCD-2f vs Focal Elear using Simeaudio Moon 430HAD. Bought LCD-2f at the end of the audition.
A week later - ordered ZMF Eikon and Atticus from Zach of ZMF Headphones.
Last Sunday - sold my Aune T1 Mk1 dac/amp and beyer T1 and bought a nearly new Chord Mojo.

I remember you talk about LCD2 with Elise vaguely but it's not a catalyst for my purchase. The decision to buy LCD-2f was made after my audition of Ragnarok vs Violectric v281 using a balance LCD-2f. That was a light bulb moment. I was shocked at how good it sounded with those gear. Now back home, I'm digging listening to LCD-2f with Ragnarok or Euforia as amplification equally. Both are very enjoyable, just different presentation. I still like HD800 with Yggy and Rggy or Euforia but LCD-2f is occupying my head 90% of the time now.

Whilst I'm having the time of my life with LCD-2f, Eikon and Atticus will be arriving soon. A lot of people have given their impressions of the ZMF headphones. Many have said that they are better than LCD-2f. If they are, I will be very surprised and would no doubt move my mountain top even higher. 

Oh lastly, Mojo is a real surprise. It's driving the LCD-2f like a pro. Sounds really good but no match against Yggdrasil + Ragnarok or Euforia. However for the price of Mojo, it's holding up very well. It's a bit of an impulse buy. I'm not sure if I will keep Mojo because I'm using my desktop gear mainly.

In essence I still have the rest of my headphones except for T1. Oh I also purchase 2 custom made Forza Audioworks xlr balance cables for my HD800 and LCD-2f.

A picture of the setup.


----------



## canthearyou

DecentLevi said:


> Or just get a MONOTOR amp for the same price as LC; or even cancel both amps for the Euforia which does it as good as both amps combined.
> 
> EDIT: the MONOTOR is going for $540 vs. $900+ (now) for the Liquid Carbon



It's too bad the Monotor amp looks like it was built in 1980. I know looks don't matter, it's how it sounds, but.......


----------



## UntilThen

canthearyou said:


> It's too bad the Monotor amp looks like it was built in 1980.


----------



## UntilThen

Having heard Elise and Euforia against a multitude of amps, I find the Feliks Audio amps the most moist or wet. I used to think that the FA amps main attributes are a fast transient response but now I know their main strength are the wetness and moist quality. It is a very appealing warm and lush tone without going overboard. Of course, tubes can influence the degree of warm and lushness but this is the sonic signature of FA's tube amps.

For instance, whilst I like La Figaro 339 bass weight and soundstage, I find Elise and Euforia moisture laden tone intoxicating. I for one never like a dry tone. YMMV.


----------



## canthearyou

I do like it wet.


----------



## UntilThen

For most people, Elise with a Bimby would have been sufficient. Get a nice headphone like LCD-2f and you're there - literally. With Euforia, you get better clarity and details, more texture and density, an even wider soundstage and surprise, surprise, a solid kick ass bass. IMO Euforia is at least 20% ahead of Elise of sonic goodness. Does it justify the $400 more than Elise? That's for you to decide. In head-fi, an extra 10 to 20% is a big milestone.

Getting Euforia was an eye opener for me. However getting Yggdrasil to partner Euforia was a body opener for me. I literally saw St Peter's at the Gates.  There's no way for me to describe the experience without resorting to hyperbole. I was unashamedly flowery at describing how good the combination of Yggy > Euforia > HD800 is. Now with Yggy > Euforia > LCD-2f, I am at a lost for further adjectives. 

You may insert <------- any adjectives -------> here.


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 23, 2017)

canthearyou said:


> It's too bad the Monotor amp looks like it was built in 1980. I know looks don't matter, it's how it sounds, but.......



I guess I've always been one to put function over form, like this setup I did on the Elise







I would even go for this if I liked the sound:




(credit goes to @mordy for this one on the Little Dot)

The thought never crossed my mind till you just said something, but I believe it was first made somewhere around the 80-90's... Superb performer & value though


----------



## UntilThen

The latest iteration of Audeze LCD-2f is now 70 ohms impedance and 105dB sensitivities. LCD-2f is louder than HD800 on the same volume setting in Euforia. 

In short, LCD-2f pairs very well with Euforia now.


----------



## Rossliew

DecentLevi said:


> I guess I've always been one to put function over form, like this setup I did on the Elise
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ohhh my, can you share the tube setup on your Elise ?


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Ohhh my, can you share the tube setup on your Elise ?



It's called 'When Harry meets Sally...'


----------



## DecentLevi

*Here*'s the link. It was a milestone discovery of yesteryear coined as the Christmas Tree setup, that while was mighty in its' own right, has since been surpassed as I moved up the food chain. *This *explained the function a little more


----------



## Rossliew

DecentLevi said:


> *Here*'s the link. It was a milestone discovery of yesteryear coined as the Christmas Tree setup, that while was mighty in its' own right, has since been surpassed as I moved up the food chain. *This *explained the function a little more


Thank you very much!

Currently running my NAD3020 as preamp into the Elise and my oh my, the SQ went up a full notch or two!


----------



## mordy

DecentLevi said:


> *Here*'s the link. It was a milestone discovery of yesteryear coined as the Christmas Tree setup, that while was mighty in its' own right, has since been surpassed as I moved up the food chain. *This *explained the function a little more


Hi DL,

Good to hear from you!
Your picture of the wild experimentation days with the Little Dot MKIII brought back memories - nowadays all the adapters and voltage regulators are packed away and are not being used anymore. I learned a lot and had a lot of fun, but the sound I now get with the Euforia and four bargain tubes (Foton 6N8S/RCA 6AS7G) is far superior.
If you have $25 to spend, try a pair of the Nakamichi ANC80 noise cancelling headphones (from Newegg). At least 80% of the sound of my T1 headphones - a very pleasant, non fatiguing sound, and really two headphones in one - without noise reduction and with it, the sound is very different. Without, the sound is laid back and soft, with, the sound is much more upfront and more detailed, and the noise reduction works quite well. 
The T1 has more detail and better control of the bass, but that's it. In addition, swapping headphone cables is a matter of a dollar or two!


----------



## UntilThen

By the way, welcome back @DecentLevi . As I take a step back from posting, your contribution will keep the interests in FA amps alive.

We all had our fun at the height of our tube rolling on Elise and Euforia. Looking back, it shaped and make the thread interesting.


----------



## UntilThen

Picture of the T1 before it's sold off. I did enjoy T1 for a long time with Elise. When HD800 came, I much prefer it to T1. I have many told me that they much prefer T1 to HD800 and they are right to express that opinion too. It's preference. I sold off T1 because it's becoming aged. The headband is getting a bit worn. Hence I sold it really cheap. Whoever bought it will have a chance to taste what T1 sounds like.

If I had to buy a T1 again, it would be the Gen 2 version. I like a bit more kick to the bass.


----------



## UntilThen

Someone wanted to buy my modified HD650 but I am not selling it. HD650 with balance cable on Yggdrasil and Ragnarok sounds like a TOTL headphone. It's mid centric no doubt but it has one of the best mid I've heard. I listen a lot to vocals so this headphone still appeals to me. Sounds really good with Yggy > Euforia too.


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 23, 2017)

mordy said:


> Hi DL,
> 
> Good to hear from you!
> Your picture of the wild experimentation days with the Little Dot MKIII brought back memories - nowadays all the adapters and voltage regulators are packed away and are not being used anymore. I learned a lot and had a lot of fun, but the sound I now get with the Euforia and four bargain tubes (Foton 6N8S/RCA 6AS7G) is far superior.
> ...



Cool info. Mordy, thanks! Maybe I'll try those ANC80 headphones sometime, as they look suitable for portable use. I've already recently got two great new IEMs in Japan though. (may explain later). Those Foton 6N8S seem interesting, and cheap. The look like a 6SN7 - am I correct in assuming they are a drop-in replacement? But what do they bring to the table over the 6SN7's or other tubes for that matter? Somehow I have a hunch these are tight and articulate sounding.

Seems not much talk of the EL11 or EL12's these days. To be honest, in my last days of tube rolling on the Euforia before packing up my system, I was awestruck with the Bendix 6080's (slotted graphite plates) with either the 6SN7 'bad boys', or + RCA 6SN7 GT newest smoked glass style for an amazingly lifelike sound with bass definition, dynamics etc. that leave nothing to be desired, each 6SN7 with their own flavor. Those EL tubes are good for certain recordings, but fairly 'colored' with that tube saturation.

Thanks UT, but I'm just posting occasionally when I have time, and I'm not fully 'back' on these threads yet.


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 23, 2017)

PS -  These were my final best pairings with the GEC's (on the Euforia) after trying with many dozens of driver tubes of different classes, sometimes I would prefer above any other EL or Bendix combination as well (with my personal notes on each):

* GEC 6AS7G + RCA 6SN7 GT newest smoked glass style
_ Robust, impactful, weighty, detailed, spot-on tonality, great realism & soundstage
(has modest squeel with many powers)_

* GEC 6AS7G + RCA 12AV7
_ Vivid, weighty, great dynamics, slightly darker tonality_

* GEC 6AS7G + RCA GT VT-231 smoked grey
_ Robost, impactful, slightly bright on upper frequencies_


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 23, 2017)

Fotons are drop in replacement for 6sn7. What comes to my mind for those tubes is bass impact. It does not muddy the mids and treble. For the price, it's worth a listen but some Fotons have a tendency to hum which might go away after burn in.

I have basically given up on non recommended tubes. You are correct that Bendix 6080wb sounds good. One of my fav power tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm using my perfect NOS pair of curved base Gec 6as7g sparingly. 

These days I just run with Rca 6as7g. Keeping my choice power tubes to sell to @Rossliew  lol.


----------



## DecentLevi

UntilThen said:


> ...You are correct that Bendix 6080wb sounds good. One of my fav power tubes.



Granted, but my take is the Bendix 6080 WB's are very picky about synergy, and IMHO sounded very passive with all drivers but splendid exclusively with the above mentioned 6SN7's


----------



## Liu Junyuan

I'm about to pop the RCA 6AS7 in my 339 for some calm listening.


----------



## UntilThen

Rca 6as7g just sound so right on LF339. I like it on Euforia too. I should get myself another nice pair.


----------



## DecentLevi

Hmmm, I wonder what sets the Rca 6as7g apart from RCA 6080 or GEC 6AS7G? I could probably find it if there was a "search this thread" button anymore (or is there)?

Ta-ta for now


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> Hmmm, I wonder what sets the Rca 6as7g apart from RCA 6080 or GEC 6AS7G? I could probably find it if there was a "search this thread" button anymore (or is there)?
> 
> Ta-ta for now



I don't gloss over tube comparisons like I used to do. These days it's more headphones rolling for me.


----------



## angpsi

Reposting from the Elise thread: I don't know what got into me but I just posted an interest check to sell my gear. Either downgrading or getting out of the game altogether. Perhaps I need an analyst to tell me what's wrong...

Do you think I'm crazy?


----------



## Rossliew

No you're not. This happens. Time to move on and sample other sonic delights. Electrostatics are calling you....


----------



## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> Reposting from the Elise thread: I don't know what got into me but I just posted an interest check to sell my gear. Either downgrading or getting out of the game altogether. Perhaps I need an analyst to tell me what's wrong...
> 
> Do you think I'm crazy?



Yes Angelo, I think you are crazy.  Unless you need the money, I think what you have is good enough to last you many years. Eitr > Mimby > Elise > HD600 is a great package and would be a great sonic experience. Get rid of the non recommended tubes.

The next step to bring even more enjoyment is to get Audeze LCD-2f. Or wait till I get ZMF Eikon and Atticus and I'll tell you if they are better than LCD-2f .... in my opinion of course. The ZMF A & E are 300 ohms dynamic headphones and might even be a better match.

Or you can follow my path and upgrade crazily but then you will be crazily happy. As I type, I'm listening to music with this setup - Yggdrasil > Euforia > LCD-2f. This is as good as it gets. 

Listen to this with a LCD-2f.... and nothing else matters anymore.


----------



## UntilThen

On the other hand Angelo, go ahead and sell it and buy this.


 

Then listen to this


----------



## UntilThen

Then listen to this nostalgic 1969 song. How old were you then?


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Yes Angelo, I think you are crazy.  Unless you need the money, I think what you have is good enough to last you many years. Eitr > Mimby > Elise > HD600 is a great package and would be a great sonic experience. Get rid of the non recommended tubes.
> 
> The next step to bring even more enjoyment is to get Audeze LCD-2f. Or wait till I get ZMF Eikon and Atticus and I'll tell you if they are better than LCD-2f .... in my opinion of course. The ZMF A & E are 300 ohms dynamic headphones and might even be a better match.
> 
> ...



Hi UT,

Are these your LCD headphones:
https://www.adorama.com/aulcd2latc.html?emailprice=t&utm_source=rflaid912761


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy, yes they are but these ones are in aluminium. If you like aluminium look it's fine but I prefer Shedua wood. 

I was a bit sceptical about Adorama but it's stated that there's 3 years Audeze warranty so I guess ok... 

Another pic of my beautiful sounding LCD-2f. Sounds so good on Yggy and Rggy or Yggy and Euforia. I really want to know if the ZMF Eikon and Atticus is better sounding than the LCD-2f. Can't wait to hear the ZMF headphones.


----------



## UntilThen

There's only one downside to the LCD-2f. It feels much heavier and the clamp is a bit tight because the headphone is only 2 weeks old. It only feels heavy when compared to my very comfortable HD800 or the HD650.


----------



## UntilThen

With the LCD-2f, I'm really happy running with Psvane 6sn7 stock drivers and RCA 6as7g. I'm sure Gec 6as7g will be better but I want to use my GEC sparingly.  Likewise the rest of my 'better' power tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

Just sat through listening to 'War of the Worlds' on this setup comprising Yggdrasil > Euforia > HD800. Yes HD800. Time to put LCD-2f aside for a bit.

This sounds exquisite. Expansive soundstage, startling clarity and realism. Justin Hayward never sounded so good. I really think that Euforia and HD800 has great synergy. I'll try my other tubes later. Most of all, HD800 feels very good on my head. Feels very comfortable after wearing LCD-2f for several days.


----------



## UntilThen

I get a headache when I read post such as this.... Item A leaves item B in the dust or item A eats item B for breakfast.... without any explanation as to why. 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/att...phones-from-zmf.821782/page-281#post-13680360


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Mordy, yes they are but these ones are in aluminium. If you like aluminium look it's fine but I prefer Shedua wood.
> 
> I was a bit sceptical about Adorama but it's stated that there's 3 years Audeze warranty so I guess ok...
> 
> Another pic of my beautiful sounding LCD-2f. Sounds so good on Yggy and Rggy or Yggy and Euforia. I really want to know if the ZMF Eikon and Atticus is better sounding than the LCD-2f. Can't wait to hear the ZMF headphones.


Hi UT,

Adorama is a very reputable business and have been around for many years. Don't know how they come up with such amazing deals from time to time - maybe they can promise the manufacturer a large volume.
Just think of it - there are only less than 200  owners of the Elise and the Euforia whereas the latest Massdrop of the HD650 had well over 20,000 takers (in addition to the 5000 a year ago or so)..
My T1 headphones has a serial number in the 11000 range, so there is definitively a huge market for headphones.


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 25, 2017)

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Adorama is a very reputable business and have been around for many years. Don't know how they come up with such amazing deals from time to time - maybe they can promise the manufacturer a large volume.
> Just think of it - there are only less than 200  owners of the Elise and the Euforia whereas the latest Massdrop of the HD650 had well over 20,000 takers (in addition to the 5000 a year ago or so)..
> My T1 headphones has a serial number in the 11000 range, so there is definitively a huge market for headphones.




Hello Mordy, sorry for the lateness in response because I've a ton of pm to respond to.  However you will have my attention any time of the day, mate. 

Someone on the LCD2 thread said that his dad went to US and bought him a LCD2 from Adorama and brought it back to Bangladesh. One of the channel is now dead and he has no way of getting it fixed. In the end, he has to send it back to Audeze for repair, at a cost of $110 shipping - ouch !

Now I'm not saying anything bought from Adorama is bad. It's probably just one unfortunate incident. As you are in US, any warranty claims will be much easier.

Headphones will definitely sell more than amps. Most of us will buy one dac, one amp but many headphones. 

Wait for it... just as I am enjoying my LCD-2f, someone is trying to entice me with LCD-4. That's about 4 times the price. I was also ask to consider Utopia ($5500), Abyss ($6999), LCD-4 ($5799), HiFiMan HE1000V2 ($3499), HiFiMan Susvara ($7499). All in aussie dollars of course.

Until I learn how to print money, these headphones will remain in the shop.

Right now, I'm going to use the $5 V-Monk Plus earbud on my Yggdrasil and Ragnarok setup. Wish me luck that it won't blow up.


----------



## UntilThen

Here it is. V-Monk Plus on Ragnarok and sounding like a blood diamond. I am really impressed with Rag now. It will play top of the range CIEM like these found here... https://www.minidisc.com.au/head-ph...AW75XgxP8LjfSygFg-SHVvIAIb74MW970lRoChT_w_wcB

However for now, the monks are singing and dancing like pros. So good. There are 3 gains settings on Ragnarok. Gain one for IEM, gain 2 for full size headphones and gain 3 for speakers. For headphones, Rag operates in class A mode whilst in speaker mode, it operates in class AB.


----------



## UntilThen

However, the truth is V-Monk plus sounds very limited in it's tonal range, especially when you're used to HD800 and LCD-2f. So it's not the same experience and I don't ever expect it to be.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Just sat through listening to 'War of the Worlds' on this setup comprising Yggdrasil > Euforia > HD800. Yes HD800. Time to put LCD-2f aside for a bit.
> 
> This sounds exquisite. Expansive soundstage, startling clarity and realism. Justin Hayward never sounded so good. I really think that Euforia and HD800 has great synergy. I'll try my other tubes later. Most of all, HD800 feels very good on my head. Feels very comfortable after wearing LCD-2f for several days.




Ha ha....yeah, i have had my planars on for about 10 days now and my neck is starting to get a little sore, LOL!


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Ha ha....yeah, i have had my planars on for about 10 days now and my neck is starting to get a little sore, LOL!



I'm back to using the LCD-2f and training my neck muscles. For the voluptuous tone of the planar magnetics, I'm willing to bare a bit of pain. Besides I think the clamp will loosen up over time.


----------



## UntilThen

@oshipao  I just bought a Rega RP8 with Apheta MC cartridge. Even got an Avid Pellar MM/MC phono stage preamp. Omg, the sound from this turntable is simply awesome. I think my Yggdrasil may become redundant now.


----------



## Rossliew

UT, you seem to be on a spending spree! Now u need a record cleaning machine as well. Have to agree - the Regas do PRAT really well!


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> UT, you seem to be on a spending spree! Now u need a record cleaning machine as well. Have to agree - the Regas do PRAT really well!



Ross, sell all your digital source and get this all singing and dancing Rega RP8 with Apheta cartridge and Avid Pellar phono. This package sizzles. Now listening on vinyl and Euforia with LCD-2f. What am I going to do with Yggdrasil now?


----------



## UntilThen

You wouldn't believe how cheap I got this. $2400 and it's like new. The cartridge new alone is $1700. The new price at Addicted To Audio, including the cartridge is $5799. I had to fight against 10 other buyers to get this. Basically I convince the seller that I'm a true vinyl lover and that his turntable will be in good hands. 

This is with the shell and cover removed or what is called the skeletal outfit.


----------



## oshipao

UntilThen said:


> @oshipao  I just bought a Rega RP8 with Apheta MC cartridge. Even got an Avid Pellar MM/MC phono stage preamp. Omg, the sound from this turntable is simply awesome. I think my Yggdrasil may become redundant now.



UT!

That looks astonishing! Bet it sounds like a slice of heaven too 
You have a lot of fun in front of you now  Enjoy friend!


----------



## UntilThen

oshipao said:


> UT!
> 
> That looks astonishing! Bet it sounds like a slice of heaven too
> You have a lot of fun in front of you now  Enjoy friend!



Oshipao, my vinyl friend !!! This is too good. Better than any dacs.


----------



## oshipao

UntilThen said:


> Oshipao, my vinyl friend !!! This is too good. Better than any dacs.



The best recording I own who really showcases what vinyl is all about is Jennifer Warnes - Famous Blue Raincoat https://www.discogs.com/Jennifer-Warnes-Famous-Blue-Raincoat/release/7550126

Another good one would be Aaron Nevilles - Warm Your Heart

Try to get hold of one of these or the original (scarce) and you won't be dissatisfied. It has everything you could wish for, if you like the music that is


----------



## UntilThen

I have the CD version of Famous Blue Raincoat. It's a high fidelity recording so it's quite expensive. Would love the vinyl version. Thanks for the recommendations. I'll be selective of what I get. Listening to classical now and it's a new experience. Didn't know the RP8 with Apheta is so good. I paid quite a lot for the Avid phono too.


----------



## oshipao

UntilThen said:


> I have the CD version of Famous Blue Raincoat. It's a high fidelity recording so it's quite expensive. Would love the vinyl version. Thanks for the recommendations. I'll be selective of what I get. Listening to classical now and it's a new experience. Didn't know the RP8 with Apheta is so good. I paid quite a lot for the Avid phono too.



Ah, I see 

Yes, but most vinyl sounds great too. So buy the music you love. Your tonearms seems to be the same model if my eyes does not decieve me, is it Origin or Rega?


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> Ross, sell all your digital source and get this all singing and dancing Rega RP8 with Apheta cartridge and Avid Pellar phono. This package sizzles. Now listening on vinyl and Euforia with LCD-2f. What am I going to do with Yggdrasil now?



I could but i'm just so lazy when it comes to cleaning records...and they take up a lot of space. I used to own a RP6 (union Jack edition) with their Exact MM cart. Lovely boogie woogie table!



UntilThen said:


> You wouldn't believe how cheap I got this. $2400 and it's like new. The cartridge new alone is $1700. The new price at Addicted To Audio, including the cartridge is $5799. I had to fight against 10 other buyers to get this. Basically I convince the seller that I'm a true vinyl lover and that his turntable will be in good hands.
> 
> This is with the shell and cover removed or what is called the skeletal outfit.



Now that's a killer price worth killing for!! Where do you find such good deals??


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 26, 2017)

oshipao said:


> Ah, I see
> 
> Yes, but most vinyl sounds great too. So buy the music you love. Your tonearms seems to be the same model if my eyes does not decieve me, is it Origin or Rega?



The tonearm is RP8 original Rega RB808. This is as high as you can get with Rega turntable except for the top of the range RP10. Apheta is their top moving coil cartridge.

Incidentally the seller is moving on to a Linn Sondek LP12 to match his vintage looking receiver and speakers. He didn't think the LP12 would be an upgrade to the RP8.


----------



## UntilThen (Aug 26, 2017)

Nice Ross, someday you will return to vinyl.  I got the RP8 at that killer price by looking at stereo.net.au classifieds. It's a lovely bunch of sellers and buyers. Too many tempting stuff to buy but this is my last purchase.

I've pretty much sorted out my digital and analogue sources, tube and solid state amps and headphones that are good enough for me. I don't need $4000 plus headphones. Too rich for my blood. 

Now to sell off the Denon DP300F turntable and Chord Mojo.


----------



## myphone (Aug 27, 2017)

Have been trying to build a desktop near-field system (2-3 feet from ears) to compliment Euforia headphone listening.

KEF LS50 and Spendor SE3/5 are great for small room monitoring 5 - 6 feet away from ears.

Recently bought some used gears (Except pono player) that are very promising: Pono-player, LTA MZ2 as pre-amp, DIY Get*Set*Go single ended amp (6B4C output/6SL7 driver/6X5GT rectifier, 3 watts), and Audience ClairAudient 1+1 full range drivers.


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 28, 2017)

So I thought I had already finished with hi-fi in Japan, having early this month spent an entire 'shift' in Fijiya Avic hi-fi store in Tokyo demoing at least 120 earphones / IEMs and walking out with two... fast forward to two days ago I was in Bic Camera in Osaka looking for my first bluetooth speaker (settled on the Harmon Kardon One). Surrounding the wireless speakers were a seemingly endless array of headphones / earphones display racks, but I managed to laser focus on one thing. (trying to) leave the store I was on total sensory overload mode, to the point I could only awe at the beauty of so many countless headphones - what must have been pushing WAY past 400 headphones over 50 different racks of every brand you have / haven't heard of from A-Z, and AT LEAST as many earphones, about 90% of which are on display for self testing. I tried a couple and planned to come back later since it was already late.

Then here's what changed everything: I asked a salesman if they have Mordy's recommendation of Nakamichi ANC80. In fact he looked a bit confused and told me they don't carry it after checking. BUT that's when he recommended the Earphone Shop Osaka. Now he told me something I can still hardly believe: He said this store is even more headphones! I wasn't even looking for more hi-fi and stumbled across this place by mistake... to add to the irony even more, here I am today just having moved to another more centrally located rental and I look on the map route to this store and not only is it within walking distance from here, but it's on the SAME STREET that I'm on... SERIOUS What moment... WOW. Well after 2 days I've become weak of resisting, so today I called the staff. They have an English speaking saleswoman and said I can basically spend all day trying stuff with my gear. Of course I'm not gonna bring the Euforia there but have a decent DAP (Onkyo DP X1A) and a good 20 well mastered headphone test tracks that I'm very familiar with. I'm open to try all brands without bias to brand name, why not since it's right there.

My AirBnB room also happens to be on top of a supermarket, so let's see which happens first: I fatten up, or my wallet thins out from headphones (LOL). Actually I'm very satisfied with my HD-600's for open back's , but wouldn't mind checking my options for closed on-ear and full size cans.... they also have another store in Tokyo where I'm going next week anyway, so maybe I'll spend a whole day trying headphones and another later for earphones. At least I'll save myself an extra trip back to Japan, because I'll tell ya this is something a headphone enthusiast would have no problem making a trip around the world to experience!!!!! And to add to the strangeness, I see people passing by all this as if it's no big deal. Well this is Japan, where the strange and bizarre are a constant so no big surprise.

Here's a few snaps of photos I found online.









 






As you can see it's not only headphones. It's two floors of everything relating to the hobby, amps, DACs, DAPs and even a lot of wireless systems. They also have a used headphone department! Bic Camera already had what was probably the largest sheer volume of headphones I've ever seen even more than the largest ever west coast CanJam, but Earphone shop Osaka has even much more!

You can see more from Google Maps here, and their website is here. If you use translation you can see the links at the bottom left of the page list their store locations in Tokyo and Osaka (4 stores total, and they said their largest are equally the one near Namba station in Osaka, and in Akihabara of Tokyo)

PS- My time is stretched thin to report much more than brief notes


----------



## mordy

DecentLevi said:


> So I thought I had already finished with hi-fi in Japan, having early this month spent an entire 'shift' in Fijiya Avic hi-fi store in Tokyo demoing at least 120 earphones / IEMs and walking out with two... fast forward to two days ago I was in Bic Camera in Osaka looking for my first bluetooth speaker (settled on the Harmon Kardon One). Surrounding the wireless speakers were a seemingly endless array of headphones / earphones display racks, but I managed to laser focus on one thing. (trying to) leave the store I was on total sensory overload mode, to the point I could only awe at the beauty of so many countless headphones - what must have been pushing WAY past 400 headphones over 50 different racks of every brand you have / haven't heard of from A-Z, and AT LEAST as many earphones, about 90% of which are on display for self testing. I tried a couple and planned to come back later since it was already late.
> 
> Then here's what changed everything: I asked a salesman if they have Mordy's recommendation of Nakamichi ANC80. In fact he looked a bit confused and told me they don't carry it after checking. BUT that's when he recommended the Earphone Shop Osaka. Now he told me something I can still hardly believe: He said this store is even more headphones! I wasn't even looking for more hi-fi and stumbled across this place by mistake... to add to the irony even more, here I am today just having moved to another more centrally located rental and I look on the map route to this store and not only is it within walking distance from here, but it's on the SAME STREET that I'm on... SERIOUS What moment... WOW. Well after 2 days I've become weak of resisting, so today I called the staff. They have an English speaking saleswoman and said I can basically spend all day trying stuff with my gear. Of course I'm not gonna bring the Euforia there but have a decent DAP (Onkyo DP X1A) and a good 20 well mastered headphone test tracks that I'm very familiar with. I'm open to try all brands without bias to brand name, why not since it's right there.
> 
> ...


----------



## mordy

Hi DL,

Wow, what a selection! Your head must be literally spinning! On the items you recognize, how do the prices compare to US pricing?


----------



## UntilThen

Enjoy Japan @DecentLevi . I had a wonderful 13 days ther in 2010 with my family and I did look around at head-fi gear too. My son bought the HE560 from there. Cost only AUS$800 at that time. Much cheaper than back in Australia.

Don't look too much though because you will set your heart to buy it sooner or later.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Wow, what a selection! Your head must be literally spinning!



Mordy, my head is literally spinning with the TT now. This is the best source - period.


----------



## UntilThen

myphone said:


> KEF LS50 and Spendor SE3/5 are great for small room monitoring 5 - 6 feet away from ears.
> 
> Recently bought some used gears (Except pono player) that are very promising: Pono-player, LTA MZ2 as pre-amp, DIY Get*Set*Go single ended amp (6B4C output/6SL7 driver/6X5GT rectifier, 3 watts), and Audience ClairAudient 1+1 full range drivers.



That's the reason I want the KEF LS50 but after hearing KEF R300, I want that now instead..... 

Enjoy your new setup. Looks interesting.


----------



## UntilThen

Listening to a box set now. Using HD800 of course.


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 28, 2017)

Hi UT, so you have the Hugo TT now and like it better than the Yggy? And you already visited one of those Earphone Shops in Japan before?
The prices on all headphones / earphones I've seen look EXCEPTIONAL in Japan, such as the T1 for only about $600 or so (fuzzy memory, don't quote me on that), and one of the earphones I got was around 1/2 of what it was being sold online... well these were at the Fujiya Avic store which was also duty-free for foreigners and I am still soon on the way to the Earphone Shop Osaka.

PS- @Liu Junyuan check out my above post, you may like this too. And maybe @Currawong would like to chime in...


----------



## Currawong

Probably second-hand prices. e-earphone has many, and you can go in and try all the second-hand pairs to find one you are happy with.


----------



## canthearyou

Well, I've pretty much given up on getting my Elise back. It's been in Customs in Poland since August 15th. I asked Henryk what he needs to get it released and haven't gotten a reply back. 

If anyone has a 110v model(preferably 2017 model) for sale let me know. Must be located in USA.


----------



## DecentLevi

that's only 2 weeks. Some of ours were stuck for around 3 weeks. I wouldn't give up until around 6-8 weeks, or at least look for an alternative amp.


----------



## canthearyou

DecentLevi said:


> that's only 2 weeks. Some of ours were stuck for around 3 weeks. I wouldn't give up until around 6-8 weeks, or at least look for an alternative amp.


6 to 8 weeks! Lmao. I'll see what I can do. Lol. I did pick up a temp amp for the time being.


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> Hi UT, so you have the Hugo TT now and like it better than the Yggy? And you already visited one of those Earphone Shops in Japan before?
> The prices on all headphones / earphones I've seen look EXCEPTIONAL in Japan, such as the T1 for only about $600 or so (fuzzy memory, don't quote me on that), and one of the earphones I got was around 1/2 of what it was being sold online... well these were at the Fujiya Avic store which was also duty-free for foreigners and I am still soon on the way to the Earphone Shop Osaka.
> 
> PS- @Liu Junyuan check out my above post, you may like this too. And maybe @Currawong would like to chime in...



Lol DL aren't you confusing things? I said Rega RP8 turntable with Apheta moving coil cartridge and Avid Pellar phono stage.

I did not say Hugo TT nor do I have it.

I have not heard any dac better than Yggdrasil.... yet. However my newly purchased turntable with LPs sounds better than Yggy... in my opinion. Yggy is really good but this vinyl rig is something else. Google it.


----------



## DecentLevi

Oh I mistook that for Hugo TT instead of TurnTable.

So I posted some VERY interesting finds with results I would have never expected in a million years, after spending 8 hours demoing a mountain of headphones of all types and brands today (though I skipped over Beats). Check out the very surprising find here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/why...ssic-more-popular.753664/page-3#post-13687762


----------



## DecentLevi

I'm starting to miss my Euforia in storage in the states, I do recall an unmatched soundstage, realism and dynamics compared to any other amp I've owned. In the meantime I've modded a budget compact closed headphone called Neu HX6000 I found here in Japan with nice results, and am waiting on my Focal Spirit Classic, which was to me the best closed headphone I tried out of at least 150 closed headphones at the Osaka Earphone Shop (not counting the open headphones I tried, some of which are technically superior).

I've been wondering where is @hypnos1 - have you already reached an end game? And @HOWIE13 too?


----------



## UntilThen

Everyone have found their nirvana, enjoying their music and have stop posting.

Bought something from Poland yesterday.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/302434800661

I'm a vinyl fan now.


----------



## Rossliew

lol that's sweet !


----------



## UntilThen

You need an ultrasonic record cleaner too Ross.


----------



## Rossliew

With my minuscule collection I can still do without


----------



## mordy

And here is a 78 from 1928 masterfully re-pressed from the original stamper - glorious sound!


And just for fun, a jazz tune in the style of 1924  played by an orchestra from Prague:


----------



## UntilThen

Very nice and catchy pictures Mordy.   I live and breathe vinyl now. Get a good rig and it's the most analogue, organic, natural and live sound you will ever hear. I should have got started on records right from the beginning.

This is a video of how Rega and in particular, RP8 is made.



.... and I buy my records from amazon.co.uk now. Much cheaper.


----------



## UntilThen

My ZMF Eikon and Atticus have shipped, so I am looking forward to it with anticipation. Zach has been a joy to deal with. Friendly, courteous and a master craftsman in headphone tuning.

Secondly, I'll be going along to this meet on Sunday. I will get a chance to hear both the active and passive KEF LS50, the latter being driven by the new AudioGd Master 10 integrated amp. The Master 10 is a monster. I like to see how it sounds compared to my Ragnarok.

http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/top...sunday-10th-september-2017-kef-ls50-wireless/


----------



## UntilThen

Lastly if you hadn't noticed, Euforia has been noticed from 'that' other forum. Initial impression from gbeast is very positive but we do know that all along right?


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> My ZMF Eikon and Atticus have shipped, so I am looking forward to it with anticipation. Zach has been a joy to deal with. Friendly, courteous and a master craftsman in headphone tuning.
> 
> Secondly, I'll be going along to this meet on Sunday. I will get a chance to hear both the active and passive KEF LS50, the latter being driven by the new AudioGd Master 10 integrated amp. The Master 10 is a monster. I like to see how it sounds compared to my Ragnarok.
> 
> http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/top...sunday-10th-september-2017-kef-ls50-wireless/




I will be waiting to hear which ZMF headphone has the most weight in the bass.
The build quality of Zach's headphones are impeccable.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I will be waiting to hear which ZMF headphone has the most weight in the bass.
> The build quality of Zach's headphones are impeccable.



I think both headphones have bass weight but the question is whether it's higher up or lower down. 

You will get the low down of it from me.... along with my LCD-2f, which I am very familiar now. I will be evaluating it with Richard Strauss and Mahler pieces, along with some quality bass stuff from classical rock and blues.


----------



## hypnos1

DecentLevi said:


> I'm starting to miss my Euforia in storage in the states, I do recall an unmatched soundstage, realism and dynamics compared to any other amp I've owned. In the meantime I've modded a budget compact closed headphone called Neu HX6000 I found here in Japan with nice results, and am waiting on my Focal Spirit Classic, which was to me the best closed headphone I tried out of at least 150 closed headphones at the Osaka Earphone Shop (not counting the open headphones I tried, some of which are technically superior).
> 
> I've been wondering where is @hypnos1 - have you already reached an end game? And @HOWIE13 too?



Hi DL...your head must have been swimming BIG time, after all those cans lol!!...not to mention confusing?!!

As for myself, I still love my T1s...especially now I've upgraded source to the Naim UnitiCore server (etc.) and Hugo2 DAC/Amp...all helped along by the Balanced AC Mains/Filter unit. 

These have also taken my mesh plate EL11/12 Spezial combo to new heights, making this indeed my "End game" setup...(or will probably be (??!!), once my UPOCC (single crystal) silver wire arrives from Taiwan - added to some UPOCC copper -  and I can make my new 'super' interconnects!! ...a bit more info on the sound over at the Euforia thread - post #3205 :https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-euforia-a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing.831743/page-214

Hopefully, I have truly reached "the end"...but 2018 could well bring new horizons lol! ...CHEERS!!




UntilThen said:


> My ZMF Eikon and Atticus have shipped, so I am looking forward to it with anticipation. Zach has been a joy to deal with. Friendly, courteous and a master craftsman in headphone tuning.
> 
> Secondly, I'll be going along to this meet on Sunday. I will get a chance to hear both the active and passive KEF LS50, the latter being driven by the new AudioGd Master 10 integrated amp. The Master 10 is a monster. I like to see how it sounds compared to my Ragnarok.
> 
> http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/top...sunday-10th-september-2017-kef-ls50-wireless/



Hey UT...I think you'll be very pleased with the ZMFs and Euforia - the Eikon sure sounded good at CanJam London, fed by Euforia. Beautifully made... just a tad on the heavy side for me...

ENJOY!!...


UntilThen said:


> Lastly if you hadn't noticed, Euforia has been noticed from 'that' other forum. Initial impression from gbeast is very positive but we do know that all along right?



Well well...that's a pleasant surprise. Am so glad for Feliks-Audio...and yes indeed, well deserved lol! ...


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 5, 2017)

Greeting @hypnos1 . All good things must come to an end. That applies to my postings here. I've cut down almost completely, partly due to work and also I'm just quietly enjoying my music. 

Trust you are keeping well and I can see you are indeed enjoying your setup tremendously.

When I was looking to buy the Eikon and Atticus, Zach of ZMF Headphones told me that Feliks Audio gave him a Euforia and he told me that it sounded great with both of those headphones, particularly Atticus. Told me also that it will sound great with Ragnarok. At the Can Jam 2017, which you attended, Aornic was there too and gave his impressions here on this thread, together with pictures. Generally the headphones were very well received together with Euforia and even Elise. I'm not surprised. I'm indeed waiting to hear them with great anticipation.

Currently, I mainly use Audeze LCD-2f and occasionally HD800. I've grown to love the tone of LCD-2f. It's lush and inviting and has that deep bass draw which I love now. Swapping to HD800, it become bass light lol. However I still love HD800 for classical.

Which brings me to my pet love now. My Rega RP8 turntable with Apheta moving coil cartridge and Avid Pellar phono preamp is only a week old but I'm using it more than Yggdrasil. It's an amazing analogue setup and the dynamics, details, clarity and PRAT are outstanding. In the last week alone, I must have bought 40 more new records. I even ordered an Ultrasonic record cleaning machine from Poland and it's not from Lukasz. 

I think I have the best of both worlds now with Euforia and Ragnarok for amplification. Great to have a good tube amp and an equally good solid state. I even bought a Chord Mojo but after a few days with it, it's back in the box. The turntable has just got me totally engrossed. Even Yggdrasil isn't used much these days. 

I'm fatigued from buying now. I don't need anymore anyway. I have all that I need to enjoy my music now. So I will do just that.

As for Elise and Euforia, they will live on and compete very strongly at their price point and even higher. In my opinion now, you could just get a good turntable and cartridge with Elise or Euforia and a good headphone of your choice and you're set. Or if you are inclined digitally, get a good DAC and you're set too.

I'm not surprised the Feliks Audio amps are getting attention now. They have that wet, liquid tone that is really captivating.

Enjoy your music and take care.

Cheers
UT

A pic of my TT with Richard Strauss.


----------



## UntilThen

After 2 years, I'm happy now with this setup. Great sound. I couldn't have ask for more. A large bookshelf on the other wall, waiting to be filled with records. This is the end for me. All I will spend on now is more records.


----------



## oshipao

UntilThen said:


> After 2 years, I'm happy now with this setup. Great sound. I couldn't have ask for more. A large bookshelf on the other wall, waiting to be filled with records. This is the end for me. All I will spend on now is more records.



Finally you have come to your senses 

Btw, I decided to keep the Elise, bought a HD 650 and love it to bits. Like it better than the HD 600 now, just needed to get aquainted to it I suppose. No mods, no new tubes, just gonna improve my front end with vinyl until I have a place where loudspeakers can shine. 'This is it' as Michael would have said... for now 

Keep spinning those records UT!


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 5, 2017)

Correct Oshipao. Finally put my money where it counts - on a good turntable setup.

Next I need the manufacturer recone my Axis LS88 floor stander. Then a nice Marantz amp and I'll be ready to entertain the neighbours.

Btw I met great vinyl aficionados here on the local forum and have been invited to their place to sample their VPI and LP12.


----------



## mordy

Bought some power tubes from a Russian seller:








The seller thought that these tubes were perhaps made in Germany. With a little detective work and help from Oskari, it was found out that these nameless tubes without any country of origin were made in the GEC factory in Hammersmith, England on Jan and Feb 1966.
First impression: Sound great with great detailed bass and very nice mid range


----------



## UntilThen

Looks like Gec 6080 to me. Great find.


----------



## UntilThen

oshipao said:


> Finally you have come to your senses
> 
> Btw, I decided to keep the Elise, bought a HD 650 and love it to bits. Like it better than the HD 600 now, just needed to get aquainted to it I suppose. No mods, no new tubes, just gonna improve my front end with vinyl until I have a place where loudspeakers can shine. 'This is it' as Michael would have said... for now
> 
> Keep spinning those records UT!



Glad you are keeping Elise. I would have kept mine if I didnt have Euforia.

Glad you finally like hd650 too. It's an acquired taste. If you like hd650, Atticus will probably make you smile more. I am still waiting for the headphones.

You bet I am spinning those LPs. Here's another album.


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 6, 2017)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi DL...your head must have been swimming BIG time, after all those cans lol!!...not to mention confusing?!!
> 
> As for myself, I still love my T1s...especially now I've upgraded source to the Naim UnitiCore server (etc.) and Hugo2 DAC/Amp...all helped along by the Balanced AC Mains/Filter unit.
> 
> ...



What an accomplishment acquiring and envisioning this setup, it should be your endgame. You too @UntilThen don't want to burn through your money too fast.

Oh also UT take it from me - don't need to waste dough on the LCD-4. I've heard from multiple reputed members and insiders that it's one of the biggest disapointments ever in summit-fi headphones, and not an upgrade in SQ over LCD-2.2.

Mordy, yup that sure looks like an unlabeled GEC 6080. If that's them, they seem picky about synergy of drivers, but are very punchy and clean, yet somewhat bright.

I'm also somewhat preoccupied to post on HF much these days, but have an interesting tidbit for the:
"
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 " thread...
or maybe we shall coin it the 'sheepdog' thread


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> Oh also UT take it from me - don't need to waste dough on the LCD-4. I've heard from multiple reputed members and insiders that it's one of the biggest disapointments ever in summit-fi headphones, and not an upgrade in SQ over LCD-2.2.



Though I've never aspire to owning a LCD-4, I wouldn't go making such a claim unless I've heard LCD-4 myself, in comparison with other headphones. Multiple reputed members and insiders means nothing to me. Depends on who you ask really. There are many who owns LCD-4 and loves it. I wouldn't make such a statement and upset them unless I have a solid reason to do so. It's dangerous to take it as gospel truth what other 'experts' says. Not everyone have the same ears and preference. Not forgetting there's personal bias too. 

As I said, I don't feel the need to get $4000 plus headphones. That sort of money is better spend on a pair of speakers. However, I wouldn't judge those who do so. It is their right and their choices and their money. The new range of TOTL headphones all have crazy prices.

I do like how LCD-2f sound right now. I think it's good value for money. I even thought of getting the LCD-3 but after I audition LCD-2f, I told myself that's good enough for my ears.  However, I will soon be getting the Eikon and Atticus. I am keeping an open mind on these headphones. I will let it burn in, listen to it extensively on both digital and analogue medium. Then I will give my impressions of them as compared to HD800 and LCD-2f. I will not be biased of one over another because they are all my headphones and I'm not sponsored.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Though I've never aspire to owning a LCD-4, I wouldn't go making such a claim unless I've heard LCD-4 myself, in comparison with other headphones. Multiple reputed members and insiders means nothing to me. Depends on who you ask really. There are many who owns LCD-4 and loves it. I wouldn't make such a statement and upset them unless I have a solid reason to do so. It's dangerous to take it as gospel truth what other 'experts' says. Not everyone have the same ears and preference. Not forgetting there's personal bias too.
> 
> As I said, I don't feel the need to get $4000 plus headphones. That sort of money is better spend on a pair of speakers. However, I wouldn't judge those who do so. It is their right and their choices and their money. The new range of TOTL headphones all have crazy prices.
> 
> I do like how LCD-2f sound right now. I think it's good value for money. I even thought of getting the LCD-3 but after I audition LCD-2f, I told myself that's good enough for my ears.  However, I will soon be getting the Eikon and Atticus. I am keeping an open mind on these headphones. I will let it burn in, listen to it extensively on both digital and analogue medium. Then I will give my impressions of them as compared to HD800 and LCD-2f. I will not be biased of one over another because they are all my headphones and I'm not sponsored.


Hi UT,

Yes, these tubes are the GEC 6080 and I got them for an unheard of price, no doubt helped by the lack of a factory label and country of manufacture. Pair very nicely with the Fotons. And I totally agree with you that you have to hear things yourself - you can only rely on people that experience have shown to have the same kind of sound perception as yourself when it comes to choose what to buy for yourself.
About speakers I am convinced that there are very satisfying sounding speakers available today that do not cost huge amounts. I hear a lot about the Kef LS50 speakers - didn't you say that you would audition them at the meet?


----------



## UntilThen

Hi Mordy, yes I'm going to the Sydney Audio Meet at Epping club on Sunday afternoon. They are doing a demonstration of the KEF LS50 wireless and active speakers. They also have the passive KEF LF50 driven by the monster AudioGd 11 integrated amp. Plus cookies. 

However I'm more looking forward to 2 invites to 2 homes here locally where the analogue speakers setup will make my headphone system pale in comparison. I hope not...  They have gorgeous turntables, cartridges and phono amp..... plus speakers and more speakers.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Hi Mordy, yes I'm going to the Sydney Audio Meet at Epping club on Sunday afternoon. They are doing a demonstration of the KEF LS50 wireless and active speakers. They also have the passive KEF LF50 driven by the monster AudioGd 11 integrated amp. Plus cookies.
> 
> However I'm more looking forward to 2 invites to 2 homes here locally where the analogue speakers setup will make my headphone system pale in comparison. I hope not...  They have gorgeous turntables, cartridges and phono amp..... plus speakers and more speakers.


Hi UT,

Waiting to hear your impressions from the Sydney meet......


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Waiting to hear your impressions from the Sydney meet......



Hi Mordy, I did not go to the Sydney KEF LS50 demo meet because I went to another Stereo.net.au member's place instead. He had a Rega P9, stereo SE 6sn7 and 6as7 tube amp and some full range speakers with horns for treble duty. It is an exquisite system for jazz and classical. Even playing 'Brothers In Arms' by Dire Straits sounded amazing. I was very impressed.

Now that means I miss the demonstration of both the active and passive KEF LS50. A shame really as it seems everyone had a great time.

I'll leave you to read the organiser's summary instead.
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/top...f-ls50-wireless/?tab=comments#comment-3757561

My next frontier is to set up my stereo system in the lounge. I'll be getting a HiFi 4 shelves rack in 20 mins time. This is it. http://classaaudio.com.au/index.php?id_product=312&controller=product
The plan is to have analogue system with turntable in the lounge and digital system (Yggdrasil and Ragnarok) in my study. I'll update when it's done. I'm still debating on whether to use Euforia as a preamp in the lounge or to keep it in the study strictly for headphone duties. 

Well, enjoy your music because I am.

Cheers
UT


----------



## Rossliew

Sounds like a good plan there, UT. As for me, I'm taking a (temporary) hiatus from audio/head fi and selling off most of my gear. Time for a rejuvenation of sorts.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Hi Mordy, I did not go to the Sydney KEF LS50 demo meet because I went to another Stereo.net.au member's place instead. He had a Rega P9, stereo SE 6sn7 and 6as7 tube amp and some full range speakers with horns for treble duty. It is an exquisite system for jazz and classical. Even playing 'Brothers In Arms' by Dire Straits sounded amazing. I was very impressed.
> 
> Now that means I miss the demonstration of both the active and passive KEF LS50. A shame really as it seems everyone had a great time.
> 
> ...


Hi UT,

I have used a four shelf shelving system for many years and it has served me well:





It is made by Standesign. Each shelf sits within the frame on four little tabs with a small piece of rubber on the tab. Based on a tip from Steven Guttenberg I inserted a little glass marble ball (green works best - just kidding!)  between the tab and the shelf to cancel out vibrations.
The entire stand sits on spikes and I think it does a good job.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Sounds like a good plan there, UT. As for me, I'm taking a (temporary) hiatus from audio/head fi and selling off most of my gear. Time for a rejuvenation of sorts.



Good on you Ross. We do need a break every now and then. The guy who sold me the rack says he's from your home country. Told me his system would have cost a BMW 323  From the picture of his rack, I can see a M1 Bricasti dac. Gave me his contact and says we should keep in touch for a chit chat. As long as we don't talk HiFi, I'm ok with that. 

Picture of his gear here.
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/232553-sold-fs-audio-rack-extrema-cs14-modular-4-shelves/


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 11, 2017)

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> I have used a four shelf shelving system for many years and it has served me well:



Mordy, that is a rack that I could live with. It's superb. Below is mine. I set it up quickly last night. The last slot will be reserved for a power amp to drive my large floor stander speakers.

Every shelf have spike feet to isolate it from vibration. I just have to remember not to move the rack by carrying it because each shelf just sits on each other. Once in place, it's solid and unmovable because of the weight of the gear on it.


----------



## UntilThen

ZMF Eikon and Atticus arrived !!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Greeting,
> 
> Which brings me to my pet love now. My Rega RP8 turntable with Apheta moving coil cartridge and Avid Pellar phono preamp is only a week old but I'm using it more than Yggdrasil. It's an amazing analogue setup and the dynamics, details, clarity and PRAT are outstanding. In the last week alone, I must have bought 40 more new records. I even ordered an Ultrasonic record cleaning machine from Poland and it's not from Lukasz.



Superb Vinyl setup!  Well done, old bean!

I am still using the 'miracle cure' for record cleaning....the wood glue method.  Slow, but amazingly sure!

Take Good Care!


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Superb Vinyl setup!  Well done, old bean!
> 
> I am still using the 'miracle cure' for record cleaning....the wood glue method.  Slow, but amazingly sure!
> 
> Take Good Care!


Hi JV,

Forgot how u do it - maybe u could post some old pictures of the wood glue method? Thanks


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> 
> Forgot how u do it - maybe u could post some old pictures of the wood glue method? Thanks



Hello Mordy...

Lots of great how-to videos on the subject on youtube


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> Superb Vinyl setup!  Well done, old bean!
> 
> I am still using the 'miracle cure' for record cleaning....the wood glue method.  Slow, but amazingly sure!
> 
> Take Good Care!



Thanks JV. I was lucky to get the RP8 'cheap' because the seller wanted to move unto a Linn Sondek LP12 to match his vintage receiver and speakers. There were 10 buyers wanting to buy the Rega.

For record cleaning I got the Ultrasonic Record cleaning machine from a seller in Poland.
 

After cleaning I use this Record Doctor V to vacuum it dry. This 2 step process will make any old record pops and crackles free provided they are not scratched.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:


> Thanks JV. I was lucky to get the RP8 'cheap' because the seller wanted to move unto a Linn Sondek LP12 to match his vintage receiver and speakers. There were 10 buyers wanting to buy the Rega.



Very good on your cleaning method and 'cheap" RP8.

I'll bet the MC cartridge was a real eye opener, for you 

Have fun!


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> Very good on your cleaning method and 'cheap" RP8.
> 
> I'll bet the MC cartridge was a real eye opener, for you
> 
> Have fun!



Getting from Denon DP300f with stock cartridge to Rega RP8 with Apheta mc is like graduating from kindergarden to getting a PHd. 

Plus the Avid Pellar phono stage is simply awesome.


----------



## UntilThen

Serious listening sessions in progress with Eikon and Atticus. These headphones make me realised that I love quality bass. Who doesn't?


----------



## Rossliew

Which do you prefer and why?


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Which do you prefer and why?



It's going to take me sometime to decide whether I like vanilla or chocolate ice-cream. The truth is I like a scoop of each when I have ice-cream. 

Meanwhile, while this headphone audition is going on, I'm also seriously engaged in a discussion about getting a dedicated integrated stereo amp for my floor stander speakers Axis LS88. See here for more details. http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/232998-redgum-black-series-rgi120enr/


----------



## Rossliew

Well lucky you as you have both


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> It's going to take me sometime to decide whether I like vanilla or chocolate ice-cream. The truth is I like a scoop of each when I have ice-cream.
> 
> Meanwhile, while this headphone audition is going on, I'm also seriously engaged in a discussion about getting a dedicated integrated stereo amp for my floor stander speakers Axis LS88. See here for more details. http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/232998-redgum-black-series-rgi120enr/


Hi UT,

What's wrong with Vidar?


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> What's wrong with Vidar?



Hahaha I completely forgot about Vidar.

So how about a Freya preamp with 2 Vidar monoblocs? 

Omg i think that will make me a stereo convert and I will give up headphones.


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy you should have ask me 'What's wrong with Ragnarok?'.

It is driving my speakers beautifully now.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

UntilThen said:


> Mordy you should have ask me 'What's wrong with Ragnarok?'.
> 
> It is driving my speakers beautifully now.



What happened to your ever beloved Yggy? No space on the rack even?


----------



## UntilThen

Liu Junyuan said:


> What happened to your ever beloved Yggy? No space on the rack even?



Lol I ran off with another lover - Rega RP8.

Yggy is in my study with Euforia and 5 of my headphones.

I'm really torn between the 2 setups now.


----------



## UntilThen

What do you think of the Yamaha AS1100? Looks nice to me.


----------



## UntilThen

Liu Junyuan said:


> What happened to your ever beloved Yggy? No space on the rack even?



Ok.... now I've got Yggy on the rack too. This will be my main system now. Problem is I want to get a Auralic Aries as a streamer and I'm wondering where to put it. Mojo as DAC and Euforia is in the study.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Ok.... now I've got Yggy on the rack too. This will be my main system now. Problem is I want to get a Auralic Aries as a streamer and I'm wondering where to put it. Mojo as DAC and Euforia is in the study.


Hi UT,

It looks like you could put Yggy and Ryggy on one shelf stacked, and then you would free up one shelf for your streamer (or a different combination stacked).
Or maybe they would sell you an extra shelf.....


----------



## UntilThen

Spend the whole night listening to several LPs of Eva Cassidy, War On Drugs - A Deeper Understanding on the turntable setup above. A good vinyl setup with a good LP recording is just way more euphonic compared to even the Yggdrasil setup. I had a friend over and he agreed too after listening to both. Without comparing, Yggy on it's own is incredible sounding though.

Now back in the study, I find myself enjoying this simple setup just as much with my headphones.

Chord Mojo as DAC and Euforia for amplification. Using Eikon and Atticus. These headphones are burning in and sounding better with every passing day.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> It looks like you could put Yggy and Ryggy on one shelf stacked, and then you would free up one shelf for your streamer (or a different combination stacked).
> Or maybe they would sell you an extra shelf.....



Hello Mordy, greetings. I hope you are still enjoying your music. As far as possible I try not to stack the components. I think there's space for a network streamer on the shelf with the TTPSU and Avid Pellar. As it is, I don't know if I need a streamer because I've my Macbook Pro feeding Yggy via USB now. See that cable on the floor? I'm now able to play from Tidal HiFi on my speakers or any of the Youtube videos. This will do for the time being till I assess whether Ragnarok is able to drive my floor standers well. Ragnarok is driving my small speakers incredibly well now. 

If not I'll be looking at buying the Redgum RGi120ENR which has incredible power.

175W/ch into 8Ω     Transient 310W Short term RMS
265W/ch into 4Ω    Transient 630W Short term RMS
500W/ch into 2Ω     Transient 1260W Short term RMS

That's the unit on the bottom shelf.
 

An industry expert told me though that Ragnarok should drive my large speakers well, which are 150W 4ohms. Ragnarok puts out 100W RMS per channel at 4 ohms and 60 W RMS per channel at 8 ohms. I'm only now starting to fully appreciate what Ragnarok can do and do very well. It is indeed not just a good headphone amp but also a very good integrated stereo amp.


----------



## UntilThen

I wonder what took me so long to start listening on speakers. It is so much more fulfilling. This is real soundstage and this is real bass. This is real instruments separation. This is real micro details. Tonight I listen on Tidal with Yggy and Rggy driving my speakers. This is way better than any headphones. Mordy you did the right thing. You were listening to speakers all the time. 

The drums are now move to the other lounge where it look quite happy by itself. My son came to move it and when it was set up, he sat down to play the drums a bit. When I hear the live drum sound, it dawn on me that none of my analogue or digital systems will ever be as good as live. Real drums hits you with an impact that slams you right in the chest. It's a moving experience. I think I will learn to play the drums. It's not too late.


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

UntilThen said:


> I wonder what took me so long to start listening on speakers. It is so much more fulfilling. This is real soundstage and this is real bass. This is real instruments separation. This is real micro details. Tonight I listen on Tidal with Yggy and Rggy driving my speakers. This is way better than any headphones. Mordy you did the right thing. You were listening to speakers all the time.
> 
> The drums are now move to the other lounge where it look quite happy by itself. My son came to move it and when it was set up, he sat down to play the drums a bit. When I hear the live drum sound, it dawn on me that none of my analogue or digital systems will ever be as good as live. Real drums hits you with an impact that slams you right in the chest. It's a moving experience. I think I will learn to play the drums. It's not too late.



Nothing beats live cymbal crashes either  gotta love some treble


----------



## UntilThen

Oscar-HiFi said:


> Nothing beats live cymbal crashes either  gotta love some treble



Oh yes. 

Crash cymbal, ride cymbal, hi-hat cymbal, snare drums, tom toms, floor toms, bass drum. The whole works. Some drums solo.


----------



## UntilThen

My quest for an integrated amp to drive my floor standing speakers has led me to consider this PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium HP Integrated Amplifier. The particular unit I'm considering comes with KT88 tubes and while being a superb speaker amp, it is also a superb headphone amp. There's a switch for EL34 tubes and KT88 / KT120 tubes. It will even take KT150 tubes.

This is getting crazy but it is probably the last puzzle in my speakers setup. If it can drive my Axis LS88 150w rms 4ohms speakers.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 19, 2017)

Yes ! Purchase of PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium HP Integrated Amplifier is almost finalised.

I'll also separately buy either eight EL34s or eight Tung Sol KT150 NOS tubes. KT88s are powerful tubes with strong bass but EL34s are supposed to be more musical. KT150 is the best sounding of the lot but is also the most expensive and I need 8 of them !!!

Oh the 6 small tubes in front are the 12au7. I was told to buy either Mullards or Siemens.


----------



## UntilThen

This is the glow from the PrimaLuna


----------



## UntilThen

This is the beauty I just bought.

http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/top...una-dialogue-premium-hp-integrated-amplifier/


----------



## DecentLevi

I already feel sorry for the Euforia, with how it may compare to your new toy


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> I already feel sorry for the Euforia, with how it may compare to your new toy



Euforia will always be special to me. For that matter Elise too. It's what got me started on this sonic journey.

I think the PrimaLuna will be my most treasured purchase. Reading the specs and what it can do is quite staggering. It can switch from triode to ultralinear mode. It can also switch from EL34 to KT88/KT120/KT150 mode. I wonder what it's like to plug in one of my headphones and how it will sound... 

More importantly I wonder how my tower speakers will sound. The seller says he use the PrimaLuna to drive his 86db Harbeth speakers and there's ample power. My speakers are more efficient at 92db so there should be no problem with power delivery.

It's the tubes that are expensive. Each Tung Sol KT150 tube is $100 so that's $800 for the 8 tubes required.  I think I will just buy EL34s which cost $380 for 8.


----------



## UntilThen

In the midst of all these I forgot to do reviews for the ZMF Eikon and Atticus headphones...... well let's just say I'm still burning them in.


----------



## Rossliew

UT, i want to hear your review of the Primaluna and how well it drives your plethora of cans.. this is truly a beautiful amp with very positive reviews!


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Euforia will always be special to me. For that matter Elise too. It's what got me started on this sonic journey.
> 
> I think the PrimaLuna will be my most treasured purchase. Reading the specs and what it can do is quite staggering. It can switch from triode to ultralinear mode. It can also switch from EL34 to KT88/KT120/KT150 mode. I wonder what it's like to plug in one of my headphones and how it will sound...
> 
> ...


Hi UT,

Congrats on your tube power amp! The seller sold it to you w/o tubes?
Re drumming, it is never too late to learn lol. Here is a drum solo in the New Orleans tradition - I believe the drummer was 78 years old in this recording. Go to 1.34 for the solo:


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> I'll also separately buy either eight EL34s or eight Tung Sol KT150 NOS tubes.


FYI. KT150 and KT120 are modern types. There is no old stock.


----------



## UntilThen

Oskari said:


> FYI. KT150 and KT120 are modern types. There is no old stock.



Oskari, thanks for the info. You can see I'm still very new to these tubes. Nevertheless even with modern types, the KT150 are very expensive.

I was a bit amused to read that the adaptive auto bias in PrimaLuna allow you to mix and match tubes. https://primalunablog.com/2014/10/14/can-your-amp-do-this-or-are-we-crazy-at-primaluna/


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Congrats on your tube power amp! The seller sold it to you w/o tubes?



Thanks Mordy. I woke up and wonder if I did really buy the amp. Checking my email messages and Paypal payment confirms it. 

The PrimaLuna comes with 12au7 (6) and KT88 (8) tubes. 

You can see the tube rolling itch in me already starting. I was told that the cheapest and biggest change comes from changing the 2 small middle gain tubes - the 12au7. See picture.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> UT, i want to hear your review of the Primaluna and how well it drives your plethora of cans.. this is truly a beautiful amp with very positive reviews!



Ross, I bought the PrimaLuna to drive my Axis LS88 floor standers rated at 150w RMS and 4 ohms 92db sensitivities. 

My plethora of cans are a secondary usage.  However I will do the review for you so I can sell you the PrimaLuna and all the cans. 

Indeed Stereophile has a good review of the PrimaLuna and at 66lbs or 29kgs, it's a heavy beast. https://www.stereophile.com/content/primaluna-dialogue-premium-hp-integrated-amplifier

I was actually contemplating buying the Primare Pre32 preamp and A32 poweramp but I think I prefer the subtleties of the PrimaLuna integrated tube amp. Both 'used' but in great condition and about the same price. Besides I know of one forum member here that sold off his pre and power combo and return to tube amp in the PrimaLuna. It helps that the PrimaLuna is also a headphone amp. At this level, it's very unusual.

There was also one other integrated amp that I was very keen. It's the Luxman. A very beautiful sounding amp from Japan. http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/233209-fs-luxmann-l-550a-ii-integrated-amplifier/

In the end, I bought the PrimaLuna. 

 

How could you not love this Luxman L-550A II? I was so tempted. Same price as the PrimaLuna.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Re drumming, it is never too late to learn lol. Here is a drum solo in the New Orleans tradition - I believe the drummer was 78 years old in this recording. Go to 1.34 for the solo:



LOL Mordy if I play the drums this way, I might get evicted from my home. Then I got to 1:34... he's not bad at all. Very good for a 78 yrs old lad.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> LOL Mordy if I play the drums this way, I might get evicted from my home. Then I got to 1:34... he's not bad at all. Very good for a 78 yrs old lad.


He was born 1932 so I assume that he has some 50 years+ experience.....


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> Thanks Mordy. I woke up and wonder if I did really buy the amp. Checking my email messages and Paypal payment confirms it.
> 
> The PrimaLuna comes with 12au7 (6) and KT88 (8) tubes.
> 
> You can see the tube rolling itch in me already starting. I was told that the cheapest and biggest change comes from changing the 2 small middle gain tubes - the 12au7. See picture.


UT, u can use some cheap 7316 to replace those 12au7s. LOL


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> UT, u can use some cheap 7316 to replace those 12au7s. LOL



Hmmm those 7316 at $200 a pair are not cheap. 

Now I have to get @DecentLevi  to recommend me some 12au7s. What are the good 12au7 DL?


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 20, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> Hmmm those 7316 at $200 a pair are not cheap.
> 
> Now I have to get @DecentLevi  to recommend me some 12au7s. What are the good 12au7 DL?



Just saw your message... by ALL MEANS take the opportunity to give one of my main professed top miniature tube recommendations a try: RCA 12AV7. At least on the Elise & Euforia, they sound very tonally proper, vivid, bass with good heft, dynamic and fairly well extended with almost any power tubes I pair them with! Note that any 12A_7 are compatible (12A*U*7, 12A*V*7, 12A*X*7), and the different letters just indicate a different gain factor with all the pinouts the same so you can also go with V7 or X7. Tesla ECC88 are also just about equal performers and both are *cheap*, but the ECC88 is 6DJ8 class which is 6 instead of 12 volts of the former.


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> Hmmm those 7316 at $200 a pair are not cheap.


ECC186 is the same thing, but that probably won't make it any cheaper.


----------



## Oskari

DecentLevi said:


> the ECC88 is 6DJ8 class


The ECC88 _is_ the 6DJ8!


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks O and DL for the additional info on more driver tubes option for the PrimaLuna. I just checked the manual and it says these are compatible replacements tubes:-


For 12AU7: ECC82, ECC802S, E82CC, 5814, 6189, CV4003
For the KT88 switch position: 6550 and KT88. You may also use KT90, KT120, KT150
For the EL34 switch position: 6CA7, E34LS, E34L. You may also use 6L6GC, 7581A and KT66 though power will drop slightly
However I was advice by the seller (who is a really nice bloke) to use the Prima Luna supplied tubes of 12au7 and KT88 first before spending money on the wallet killing KT150. However many said that the KT150 is on another level of clarity, details and tight bass, huge soundstage and rocket launching capabilities. Ok the last part I make it up.

Furthermore the seller told me this:-

This may be the only integrated amp that you ever need, even if you buy pre-power combos, or other kit in the future, it's that good. Having said that, I have been saying that I will stop buying new Hi-Fi since about 1976!

Looking at his gear which included the Harbeth speakers, I think he has sample quite a lot of good stuff.

Ha ! This is in the Prima Luna manual says about the tubes they supply with their amps.

PTS™ - Premium Tube Selection™ Our “standard” PrimaLuna SilverLabel tubes are pre-selected using our simple 60 out of 100 rule and as such, are already “special” when compared to other standard tubes on the market. Out of 100 tubes which have passed the final quality control from the manufacturer, we are allowed to select and keep the 60 best pieces. The other 40, which are in no way defective (these just do not belong to the best 60), go back to the manufacturer and are used to supply other clients. Additionally, we keep an eye on all tubes still manufactured today and if special, high quality tubes become available, we consider them as candidates for our GoldLabel tubes. Normally these are tubes which are still in production—we don’t want to offer minor quantities of N.O.S. (New Old Stock) tubes as PrimaLuna GoldLabel tubes. Currently we have available 12AX7 and 12AU7 GoldLabel tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

I will be getting the Prima Luna for the weekend ... hopefully. Seller is sending it by courier from Melbourne.

Also told me to be careful because the protective covers for the tubes are very tight. See picture of how the tubes are wrapped with the protective foam. Looking at the picture of the KT150 tubes in the PL, I just know I want to get them.

He also told me not to drop the remote control on my feet. Says it's metal and heavy.


----------



## UntilThen

My friend Jimmy Boi has just bought a Woo Audio WA5-Le. So we will have a mini meet at my place sometime later. It would be interesting to sample his WA5-Le.

...and tonight I will get to meet Rob and the other designers of Chord for the Chord Mojo Poly demo event at www.minidisc.com.au


----------



## Rossliew

Having a happening time aren't you, UT  Again your posts on your PL is making me salivate, literally...lol


----------



## UntilThen

I am salivating too while waiting for it. The price is very good. This and the Rega were superb finds.


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 21, 2017)

Well I've gotta hand it to ya @UntilThen, you've finally gone bonkers... almost as crazy as me since day one!








From the looks of things, one thing's for sure - your new PL amp is gonna be 'tubular'! That's as in either awesome, or just tubey sounding


----------



## UntilThen

The doubters in you will project such negativity. Anyhoo in the realm of audiophile, there will be such naysayers before they even try it. 

No one will buy the Prima Luna HP primarily to drive headphones. Neither did I. This is great stereo tube integrated amp driving the likes of Harbeths and Martin Logans. I doubt the owners of such will heap such tubey praises on this amp if it didn't sound right. 

As for headphones I shall soon find out as the PL is heading my way today.


----------



## CJG888

+1 on driving MLs with tubes. I use an 18W SET with mine (Consonance Ref. 5.5)...


----------



## UntilThen

CJG888 said:


> +1 on driving MLs with tubes. I use an 18W SET with mine (Consonance Ref. 5.5)...



Good stuff. Just check out the Consonance Ref 5.5 Mkii 300B integrated tube amp. Looks nice too and I have no doubt your Martin Logans will sing with this amp.


----------



## CJG888

They certainly do, especially after upgrading to Tianjin Full Music "Aubergine" mesh plates


----------



## UntilThen

CJG888 said:


> They certainly do, especially after upgrading to Tianjin Full Music "Aubergine" mesh plates



I don't know those tubes but I did a quick google. They certainly look beautiful.


----------



## DecentLevi

Oh no folks and @UntilThen it was a total misunderstanding. I was trying to congratulate you on the new amp with a bit of humor that you've finally gone overboard with such an extravagant purchase that is sure to sound either grand or tubey using that many tubes. You already have the great Euforia for headphones and the super 'Rag' for speakers - certainly the PL amp seems it could be better yet, but I felt a bit sorry for your wallet LOL. I'm eyeing this amp too, and would like to read more on its' thread and may try it sometime. Sometimes humor is not received the same way it was intended. Congrats and best of luck.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 21, 2017)

All good DL. Move on.

You will be surprised Prima Luna is $100 cheaper than my Yggdrasil because I didn't buy PL new. Otherwise it would have cost $6500. I paid $3400 for pretty Luna. Aussie dollars of course. 

My headphones gear are pretty much sorted. I don't need upgrades anymore.

I bought the Prima Luna solely to drive my speakers. The fact that it's supposed to be a good headphone amp too is simply a bonus.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

UntilThen said:


> All good DL. Move on.
> 
> You will be surprised Prima Luna is $100 cheaper than my Yggdrasil because I didn't buy PL new. Otherwise it would have cost $6500. I paid $3400 for pretty Luna. Aussie dollars of course.
> 
> ...



Would you say you prefer the Eikon and the Atticus to the LCD-2 and the Eikon to the Atticus? Also, is Rag or Euforia better with either headphone? I thought Euforia was supposed to be very synergistic.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> I will be getting the Prima Luna for the weekend ... hopefully. Seller is sending it by courier from Melbourne.
> 
> Also told me to be careful because the protective covers for the tubes are very tight. See picture of how the tubes are wrapped with the protective foam. Looking at the picture of the KT150 tubes in the PL, I just know I want to get them.
> 
> He also told me not to drop the remote control on my feet. Says it's metal and heavy.




Congrats Matt, looks like a wonderful amp.
I knew there would be more tubes in your future  
KT150 tubes  look wonderful.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Congrats Matt, looks like a wonderful amp.
> I knew there would be more tubes in your future
> KT150 tubes  look wonderful.



Thanks Joe. My search for an integrated amp didn't start out this way. I first considered the Redgum RGi120ENR black series. This is to power my Axis LS88 150w RMS 4ohms floor standers. They love power and the Redgum has lots of it.

Then a Primare Pre32 and A32 power amp came up for sale. I was again tempted because this is a very powerful power amp with a separate preamp.

Then I saw the Luxman L-550A II. This is pure Japanese magic. Very desirable.

Finally I lay my eyes on the Prima Luna HP. I can't believe it uses eight EL34 or KT88 or KT120 or KT150 power tubes and six 12au7. A switch allows you to go from triode to ultralinear mode. Another switch allows you to go to headphone amp mode. Yet another switch goes from EL34 to KT88 / KT120 / KT150. Now the manufacturer explains that they could have just use 4 KT88s and that would be very loud. However with 8 means that the amp is just cruising and that will lengthen tube life.

The Prima Luna fail to show up today. Tracking still shows it's on it's way. Kind of disappointing but...

A lot has been going on here in my lounge. I have Yggy and Rggy hooked up on the rack together with the turntable. I'm currently using my small speakers Axis LS28 with the Definitive Technology subwoofer hooked to Ragnarok. This is so much more enjoyable than headphones. 

When Prima Luna comes, I wonder how it will compare with Ragnarok. It will be interesting.I told myself after the GEC 6as7g that I will not spend a lot on tubes again but now I'm quite willing to buy the KT150 x 8 and possibly EL34 x 8 and at least 2 NOS 12au7. I should have just bought a the pre and power combo.


----------



## UntilThen

Liu Junyuan said:


> Would you say you prefer the Eikon and the Atticus to the LCD-2 and the Eikon to the Atticus? Also, is Rag or Euforia better with either headphone? I thought Euforia was supposed to be very synergistic.



Hi LJ, I'll be honest that I have not been listening critically to compare the headphones.There's just too much happening here to do that. Prima Luna is my latest craze now. However casual listening does indicate your preference. I have a slight preference on Eikon and Atticus over LCD-2f. I also prefer Eikon slightly over Atticus. The reason is clarity. Now I wouldn't say that LCD-2f is left far behind. It is a more relaxing and subdue tone compared to the Eikon. However Audeze low bass is unmatched. Planar magnetic low bass is deep and very satisfying. 

I prefer Ragnarok's tone over Euforia but they are quite different and appeal in different ways. I prefer a tight, fast and agile tone and Rag produce that in abundance. Euforia is more warm and lusher. Both pair very well with Eikon and Atticus as well as LCD-2f. However as I said, my preference is Ragnarok. Of course an amp is no good by itself. This is where Yggdrasil comes in. I still think of Yggdrasil as the best dac. I'm bias of course. 

Much as I love Yggdrasil, I love the tone of Rega RP8 with Apheta and Avid Pellar more. There's just something about a good vinyl recording play back on a good turntable, cartridge and phono preamp. Once my big speakers drivers comes back from an overhaul, I'm pretty much settle down to just listening to music. 

But you will hear a lot more from me on Prima Luna and all those fancy pants power tubes.


----------



## DecentLevi

I wonder if sometimes you still prefer the Euforia over the Rangarok, with all the fine tuning from different tube combos


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> I wonder if sometimes you still prefer the Euforia over the Rangarok, with all the fine tuning from different tube combos



I can't say that I do unfortunately. This is not saying that Euforia didn't sound good. It's simply that Ragnarok's tone just appeal to me more. No amount of tube changes in Euforia will replicate Rag's tone. I even prefer Rag over WA22 and La Figaro 339 or Violectric V281.

This is my preference though and I can't say that I'm representative of all listeners. Someone else will probably give a different opinion and that's ok. There will be difference of opinions because we're just different.


----------



## UntilThen

UntilThen said:


> Hi LJ, I'll be honest that I have not been listening critically to compare the headphones.There's just too much happening here to do that. Prima Luna is my latest craze now. However casual listening does indicate your preference. I have a slight preference on Eikon and Atticus over LCD-2f. I also prefer Eikon slightly over Atticus. The reason is clarity. Now I wouldn't say that LCD-2f is left far behind. It is a more relaxing and subdue tone compared to the Eikon. However Audeze low bass is unmatched. Planar magnetic low bass is deep and very satisfying.



I did more critical listening for 2 hours on Eikon, Atticus and LCD-2f. This time solely with Euforia and Mojo for DAC duties. Yggy and Rggy are in the lounge system and I prefer to do my headphone listening in my study. 

My ranking for the 3 headphones still stand. 1) Eikon 2) Atticus 3) LCD-2f. I wanted to love the LCD-2f more but unfortunately this session just highlight my preference for Eikon a lot more. Atticus does not lag very far behind but LCD-2f is now a distant third !

Eikon has the whole package right. From very clear, sweet treble to engaging mids and the bass is now as good as LCD-2f low bass. Mid bass to sub bass is solid without overpowering or intruding into the important mids or vocals region. Now the mids is very important for me because I love vocals. If this is not right, then it is not right for me. If this is right then I will look further at treble and bass, soundstage, imaging and micro details. I wouldn't say that Eikon is super analytical but it is revealing enough and has the musical tone right. When I put on Atticus, I can enjoy the music just as much but the treble now is more subdue and sub bass is not as prominent. Atticus is still a very musical headphone.

When I modify my HD650, I was trying to make it more revealing and with a tighter, more impactful bass. After my modification, I thought I got the HD650 just right. However with Atticus, I realised that the modified HD650 just doesn't cut with the mustard anymore. Atticus is everything I wish for in a super HD650 and more... it's clearer at the top end and a lot more mid bass. HD650 by comparison now seems bassless. 

So there you go. If you ask me Eikon or Atticus, I would say Eikon for sure..... BUT I do like Atticus enough to keep it still. So I have 4 headphones. The other 2 are HD800 and LCD-2f. Oh there's the HD650.  My first thought is to sell off HD800 and LCD-2f but selling means losing a lot of money. So I think I will keep them all. Problem is I think I will be spending a lot more time with speakers now except when I get up at an ungodly hours of 3am. Then I'm glad I have some very nice 'high end' sounding headphones to listen to music with.

Right now with Mojo > Euforia > Eikon, music has never sounded better. This sounds really good. I have heard Yggy > Rggy > Eikon many times and I do prefer that a lot more but Mojo > Euforia is a very enjoyable package. I could just settle into listening to music without getting too fuss about gear. In other words, the gear just disappears with this package. That is what I want. The end goal is a great tone to listen to music.

Notice that I don't even mention too much about tubes used in Euforia because Euforia sounds great with most tubes. Just different flavours. I'm currently running Sylvania 6sn7wgt brown base and Bendix 6080wb slotted graphite base.


----------



## UntilThen

There's my gang of four. No room for HD650.


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> You already have the great Euforia for headphones and the super 'Rag' for speakers - certainly the PL amp seems it could be better yet, but I felt a bit sorry for your wallet LOL.



I agree with this statement with a few exceptions. Rag is great for headphones and speakers. It's an incredible sounding amp. Thanks Jason for creating this wonderful amp. It ticks all the right boxes for me. Prima Luna Premium HP better? It better be. It will be the most expensive purchase for me, if I do buy the Octet of KT150 tubes. Well almost on par with the turntable, cartridge and phono preamp.

Lastly my wallet don't feel sorry for me. After Yggy and Rggy, it's urging me to spend more. Damm wallet. I need to upgrade my wallet. Now I'm thinking of a new pair of speakers. I'm looking at a pair of Magneplanar 1.7. Anyone have any opinion of these speakers?

The 1.7 is a departure from Magnepan's 41-year history of using planar magnetic drivers for the bass or lower midrange. The use of quasi ribbon technology down into the lower midrange and bass will provide a new level of coherence.

This is the Magneplanar 1.7


----------



## Oskari (Sep 22, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> ... but now I'm quite willing to buy the KT150 x 8 and ...


$100 ea. for a current production Russian tube times 8. That would not be an easy pill for me...


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> I'm looking at a pair of Magneplanar 1.7. Anyone have any opinion of these speakers?


As you know, I have Magnepans, but I've never heard this model.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> I did more critical listening for 2 hours on Eikon, Atticus and LCD-2f. This time solely with Euforia and Mojo for DAC duties. Yggy and Rggy are in the lounge system and I prefer to do my headphone listening in my study.
> 
> My ranking for the 3 headphones still stand. 1) Eikon 2) Atticus 3) LCD-2f. I wanted to love the LCD-2f more but unfortunately this session just highlight my preference for Eikon a lot more. Atticus does not lag very far behind but LCD-2f is now a distant third !
> 
> ...




Thanks for the info....I was hell bent on the Atticus, then after getting my new gear, i was thinking the Eikon....now after reading this and talking to a few others that have both...I am leaning toward Atticus again.


----------



## UntilThen

Oskari said:


> As you know, I have Magnepans, but I've never heard this model.



I didn't know that. Are your Magnepans good?


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 22, 2017)

Oskari said:


> $100 ea. for a current production Russian tube times 8. That would not be an easy pill for me...



Yup I'll sleep on that one first and listen with the KT88 because my wallet has taken another bashing with the purchase of a Auralic Aries Mini with an external power supply. I'm taking a 3 hours drive now to get it, in my Ferrari.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Thanks for the info....I was hell bent on the Atticus, then after getting my new gear, i was thinking the Eikon....now after reading this and talking to a few others that have both...I am leaning toward Atticus again.



Joe, you really can't go wrong with either and as Atticus is cheaper, it's a no brainer. Another bonus is that the closed back seals off noise very well and others don't hear your music too. They will just see you bobbing your head and think you're mad.


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> I didn't know that. Are your Magnepans good?


Yes, I'm very fond of them.


----------



## CJG888

The Maggies always struck me as being good value. How reliable are they in the long term?


----------



## Oskari

CJG888 said:


> The Maggies always struck me as being good value. How reliable are they in the long term?


The pair I have must be close to 30. Still fine.


----------



## UntilThen

Oskari said:


> The pair I have must be close to 30. Still fine.



That speaks of the reliability of the Maggies. Even the name sounds good. The only problem is the low sensitivities of the Magneplanar 1.7. However there is a review that Ragnarok drives this Magnepan .7 with enough power. https://www.stereophile.com/content/schiit-audio-ragnarok-integrated-amplifier

This is Absolute Sound's praise of the 1.7

"Not just The Absolute Sound's Affordable Loudspeaker of the Year, the 1.7 is the affordable loudspeaker of the decade" The Absolute Sound magazine, January, 2011


----------



## UntilThen

Yesterday I drove all the way to get the Auralic Aries Mini and then went to two GTG (Get ToGether) ... I think that's what GTG means.... or is it Good To Go?? 

Anyway, at these 2 GTG, I heard the best stereo sound I've ever heard ... rivalling those of showrooms demonstrations. I saw Garrard 401, SOTA and Denon DP 59 turntables with Benz, Dynavector, etc cartridges. Musical Fidelity A308 integrated amp and some incredible sounding speakers that literally move you with subterranean bass. No subwoofers required. What is beautiful is that the whole musical spectrum is so vivid and clear. It's not just the bass. I want those systems. The soundstage is simply massive.

Anyhoo... now back home and I've installed the Auralic Aries Mini to access my 2TB portable drive that is plugged into a powered USB hub and I have access to Tidal HiFi. All this controlled via my iPad using Lightning DS software from Auralic. Plain and simple. Very good sounding too because I did not use the Mini's DAC. I have the Aries Mini connected to Yggdrasil via coaxial for now. Not as good as vinyl but it is good enough for casual listening. 

The new gear on the 2nd shelve.


----------



## MIKELAP

UntilThen said:


> I will be getting the Prima Luna for the weekend ... hopefully. Seller is sending it by courier from Melbourne.
> 
> Also told me to be careful because the protective covers for the tubes are very tight. See picture of how the tubes are wrapped with the protective foam. Looking at the picture of the KT150 tubes in the PL, I just know I want to get them.
> 
> He also told me not to drop the remote control on my feet. Says it's metal and heavy.


A friend of mine has  PRIMA LUNA PROLOGUE 2 and when i was checking is amp for tube rolling possibilitys and reading several threads what i saw is when rolling the other power tubes  they  are taller than the KT88 tubes and that the tube cage will not fit, the tubes are to tall


----------



## UntilThen

MIKELAP said:


> A friend of mine has  PRIMA LUNA PROLOGUE 2 and when i was checking is amp for tube rolling possibilitys and reading several threads what i saw is when rolling the other power tubes  they  are taller than the KT88 tubes and that the tube cage will not fit, the tubes are to tall



Yes correct. If you roll in KT150, the cage won't fit. EL34 and KT88 are fine. I'll probably leave the cage off anyway.


----------



## Rossliew

When's your Primaluna arriving, UT? Cant wait for your impressions - 2 channel and headphones  Especially how it stacks against the Ragnarok..and if only you had the Vidar as well then it would be a most awesome shootout!


----------



## UntilThen

It should have been here on Friday but it didn't !!! I'm going to sue the courier company for the delay. 

Latest news is my friend will loan me the Redgum RGi35ENR black series to do a 3 way amps comparison - on speakers of course because Redgum is not a headphone amp.

I don't need Vidar now. I've the best Schiit in the house now with Yggy and Rggy. It's not about power. Yesterday at my friends place I heard these Wyndham Audio CH2 speakers driven by the Luxman 590A Class A 25 watts and the bass is subterranean and slam you in your chest, face and everywhere.


----------



## Althalus

UntilThen said:


> It should have been here on Friday but it didn't !!! I'm going to sue the courier company for the delay.



I think that the courier is this weekend checking if it works properly, you know, to check if there is no transport damage 

About the picture, those two white "cupboards",  I can only say wow. They won't fit in my house. My speakers are outdwarfed.


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## UntilThen (Sep 24, 2017)

Wow I hook up the Redgum RGi35ENR black series integrated amp and I was immediately impressed !!! The sound is big, vivid, clear, punchy and natural with no hint of harshness. It's clear to my ears that I prefer the Redgum sound over Ragnarok for speakers..... and just prior to that I thought Ragnarok sounded amazing on my speakers.

This is the amp. The 35ENR is 65w rms 8 ohms but it's the 120ENR at 175w rms 8 ohms that I'm interested in. However the 35ENR already sounded effortless driving my speakers.


----------



## UntilThen

Prima Luna has landed.... it's a staggering 34 kgs that box !!!


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## UntilThen (Sep 25, 2017)

Words cannot describe what I am feeling right now. What I am hearing from both speakers and headphones have left me speechless. This is the chosen one, the 5th element, the bringer of joy, peace and destruction. The amp and tubes are already burn in and what I'm hearing is a world class amp. Imaging and instruments separation is top notch. This is an ultra linear sound without the bloom and bloat of cheap tube amp sound. On the contrary, notes are startlingly vivid, coherent and pin point accurate. It does all this with all the goodness of tubes at it's best. I can't describe more for now. I just want to hear song after song....

and the amp 5 coats of paint is just amazing. It changes colour when you look at it from different angles. The amp is as good as new. So are the 12au7 and KT88 tubes and I got it for half price. It came in the original double box with special thick foam inserts - much better that Yggdrasil and Ragnarok packaging. Behind, all connectors are gleaming and looks quality stuff. The remote control is a lovely piece of solid metal and works like a treat.







I will start a dedicated thread for Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP as a headphone amp eventually but for now I just want to soak in the euphony of the grandest scale.

Oh this thing is so heavy. Don't try to lift it too often. Do some gym workout before attempting to lift it.


----------



## CJG888

The Ref 5.5 also weighs about 34Kg, and the build quality is off the scale! I chose it, because it is a modern ground-up first principles design for a SET with power (18W) and control. And because I can't quite afford an Ongaku.

This is not typical Chi-Fi! This is a thouroughly modern, original design, hand-assembled in Beijing's art district. 

I am investigating whether I can drive my HE-500 directly off the speaker taps, or whether I should use a resistor network. 

And no, I don't work for Opera Consonance!


----------



## CJG888

Having said all that, I'm considering an Elise for my high-impedance cans (HD600, HD250, DT-880/600, DT-770/250, DT-150, DT250).


----------



## UntilThen

With PrimaLuna HP, there is a switch for either speakers or headphones. You can also use the remote to switch between triode or ultralinear (pentode) modes.

I still can't believe how well it drove both Eikon and Atticus. On speakers, it's a great tone. There's no shortage of power here. I'm only at 9 oclock on the volume dial.


----------



## Rossliew

Looks like the Ragnarok will be moving to a new home soon...

I once had a PL Prologue 2 integrated but it didn't synergies very well with the stand mounted Dynaudios..

Eager to hear your detailed impressions of this beast...do you have any EL34s to roll with?


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 25, 2017)

Rossliew said:


> Looks like the Ragnarok will be moving to a new home soon...
> 
> I once had a PL Prologue 2 integrated but it didn't synergies very well with the stand mounted Dynaudios..
> 
> Eager to hear your detailed impressions of this beast...do you have any EL34s to roll with?



It's strange that I'm getting a few offers to buy my Ragnarok and Euforia after my posts of the PrimaLuna. I think they assume I will be selling those amps. I will make no such decisions now.

For a start, PL is so heavy, it's impractical to move it around and to take it to Cam Jam or Meets. I had to strained to lift it.

I'm using my HD800 with the PL now using the original stock long cable with the 1/4 inch termination. I'm so glad that HD800 synergised so well with PL. I've not heard so much micro and macro details on the HD800 before. There's none of the harshness or treble spike. It has the goodness of tubes and the clarity is even better than Ragnarok or Euforia. Much better I'd say. I didn't think I'd say that of Rag and Euforia so soon but clearly the PL is in another league in headphone mode. In speakers mode it's better than Ragnarok. The control and grip it has on my Axis LS28 is authoritative.

This person who has sampled a lot of stereo amps, has this to say of the PL HP. See the last post.
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/119115-primaluna-standard-vs-hp/?page=2

I'm so glad that a long weekend is coming up. Monday is a public holiday. I'll be able to really sit down and have a good listen to PL, Rag and Redgum with speakers and PL and Rag with headphones.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Eager to hear your detailed impressions of this beast...do you have any EL34s to roll with?



Yes right now it's just my musing. Detail impressions will have to come after a few weeks with all these amps and headphones.

I am using stock Primaluna 12au7 and KT88. It has the PL logo on the tubes. PL claimed that these tubes are carefully selected and are of the highest quality. I don't have EL34s yet but I will get an Octet set. I'm debating between Mullard and Tung Sol both of which have good favourable reviews. New reissues of course. I won't be chasing NOS tubes. A lot of tubes on eBay shows killer prices for NOS EL34 tubes. A quad pair goes for US$499 and I need 8 !!!.The 'modernised' tubes as Oskari calls them, sells for $36 each for Mullard EL34 and $38 for Tung Sol EL34.

I also thought of getting an Octet set of Tung Sol KT150. I was told there's only Tung Sol brand for the KT150. However, the KT88 has so much drive and control now I doubt I need more powerful tubes. Even EL34s will do the job of driving my speakers and headphones easily.


----------



## UntilThen

All my headphones Eikon, Atticus, LCD-2f and HD800 sounds fabulous on the PL. The stock HD800 cable is long enough to listen in the lounge sitting on the sofa away from the system. The LCD-2f stock cable is just a bit short. Those 2 new cables I have from Forza are just 1.5 metres. So I need I good long cable. As long as the HD800 stock cable.

Eikon sounds so good right now driven by the PL. I tested triode and UL mode and there's not much difference except that UL mode is louder and seem to have more grip. I have not heard Eikon sounded so good before. I think I will be saying this of all my headphones. Primaluna seems to be a Prima Donna now.


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## UntilThen (Sep 25, 2017)

CJG888 said:


> Having said all that, I'm considering an Elise for my high-impedance cans (HD600, HD250, DT-880/600, DT-770/250, DT-150, DT250).



You should. Those cans sound really good with Elise. I'm still very fond of Elise and Euforia. You don't get tired of your first loves.


----------



## UntilThen

OMG 'Money For Nothing' is being belted out now with such force and intensity. I thought speakers sound really good with the PL but right now my HD800 is like a new headphone. There is bass NOW. Listening to 'Brothers In Arms' I can feel the hairs of my arms rising - you hear the mist in the battlefield after the last shot is fired and all you see or hear in the haze are the dead and destruction. Music has never sounded so REAL.

Ross, sell everything and get this Prima Donna. She's a killer.


----------



## Althalus

UntilThen said:


> treat.



UT, this looks absolutely fantastic. I wish you many great hours of music with her. Just like I have with my Euforia but then a level higher.

Althalus.


----------



## Rossliew

Hahahah...having trouble even selling the Elise and there's quite a number of Elises for sale on the trade forums here itself. So I guess the PL is not coming home anytime soon. In any case, a new one costs in the region of MYR17k!


----------



## UntilThen

Althalus said:


> UT, this looks absolutely fantastic. I wish you many great hours of music with her. Just like I have with my Euforia but then a level higher.
> 
> Althalus.



Thanks Althalus. After Euforia I thought that was it. In reality Yggy and Euforia with HD800 sounded end game but then Ragnarok came and then now Primaluna. End game goal has just been pushed further back.

I would really love to auditon PL with the best tube amps out there because it's sounding out of this world now.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Hahahah...having trouble even selling the Elise and there's quite a number of Elises for sale on the trade forums here itself. So I guess the PL is not coming home anytime soon. In any case, a new one costs in the region of MYR17k!



You can afford it Ross. Just sell off your durians plantation.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> OMG 'Money For Nothing' is being belted out now with such force and intensity. I thought speakers sound really good with the PL but right now my HD800 is like a new headphone. There is bass NOW. Listening to 'Brothers In Arms' I can feel the hairs of my arms rising - you hear the mist in the battlefield after the last shot is fired and all you see or hear in the haze are the dead and destruction. Music has never sounded so REAL.
> 
> Ross, sell everything and get this Prima Donna. She's a killer.


Hi UT,

Can't keep up with all the new developments lol....
Reading the PL advertising - is this true?

The PrimaLuna DiaLogue Premium integrated amplifier has been hailed by experts as the *best without regard to cost*. Sam Tellig loved it in his review for Stereophile magazine, giving it a *Stereophile Class A Recommended Component* rating. Dick Olsher, a world expert on vacuum tube audio stated in his review for The Absolute Sound magazine said *“It’s my current benchmark in integrated tube amplifiers.”* Merriam-Webster defines benchmark as, *“Something that serves as a standard by which others may be measured or judged.”*

Because of our designs and proprietary output transformers, *the 36 watt DiaLogue Premium has better bass slam than 75 watt tube amps from the biggest names out there*. For customers with low efficiency speakers (84-86dB) that like to play their music loud and have a large room, they may want even more power.

We could have easily doubled the output power by simply doing what *everybody else* does: *Run the tubes harder*. You’ve seen it. Two power tubes per channel running at the jagged edge, producing 75 or even 100 watts. They also produce unhappy customers, who have to replace tubes every 12 months whereas *PrimaLuna customers may go ten years before re-tubing*.

A better, though much more expensive way to build, is to keep running the tubes easy, but add four more EL34s. That required *enlarging the toroidal power transformer*, adding a *second Adaptive AutoBias board*, and all the circuitry upgrades including the tubes, sockets, *Swiss wiring*, and *Takman resistors*.

*The result is the HP.* One of the *most powerful tube integrated amps in the world*. Delivering *70 watts per channel from EL34's, 80 watts from KT88's, 84 watts from KT120's, and 96 watts from KT150's*. And like all PrimaLuna amps, the tubes are run so easy you can use it every day and just relax.

And it seems to me that you could get used old tubes without worries: (correct/false?)

*BAD TUBE INDICATOR*
PrimaLuna engineers wanted to make owning a tube amp so simple you would have no excuse not to have your tube dreams come true.

If a tube fails, Adaptive AutoBias will instantly *put the amplifier into protection mode so no parts can get damaged*. A red LED will light up in front of the tube that needs replacing. Simply plug in another tube, and listen. *No guesswork*. *No smoking amp*. *No getting out the soldering iron or dropping your amp off at UPS*. 

It also seems to me that with them KT150s you could save on the heating bills in the winter.....

*Caution! Don't look at this list of tube rolling possibilities unless you are ready to max out your credit card:*

With PrimaLuna, you get to choose. Go for it. 6L6G, 6L6GC, 7581A, EL34, EL37, 6550, KT66, KT77, KT88, KT90, KT120, even the monstrous KT150.


----------



## CJG888

Just goes to show: it's all about the output transformers!


----------



## UntilThen

It's all true Mordy. I may have stumbled upon one of the best stereo integrated amp and headphone amp by chance. 

What I hear last night and this morning makes me long for the end of my work day so I can get my next 'fix'.

As for tube rolling I will get an Octet set of EL34 and KT150. That will set me back $1000+.... and I haven't even thought of NOS 12au7.

However the PL tubes sound so good now...I will just soak in it and enjoy for a while.

Mordy buy this amp.


----------



## UntilThen

CJG888 said:


> Just goes to show: it's all about the output transformers!



I have wonder why the amp is so heavy. Must be a monstrous transformer in it.

If you read the PL write up, it is a point to point wiring using the best resistors, caps and other parts.

At night with the lights off, the PL emits a wonderful light glow from 14 tubes !!!.


----------



## CJG888

It's the transformers. Same as with the Ref. 5.5 ....


----------



## CJG888

Decent output trannies are the tube amp world's equivalent of "no substitute for cubic inches".


----------



## UntilThen

Last night after an hour, PL felt just lukewarm touching the chassis. After 2 hours, it became as hot as Ragnarok.

So in winter it will heat you up. In summer I reckon just get naked and enjoy the music. Make sure the blinds are drawn.

Oh a pair of white gloves comes standard for changing the bulbs.... I mean valves lol.

How do I remove the tubes. Just pull upwards?


----------



## CJG888

Tubes with metal bases should, where possible, be pulled by the base. This prevents damage, such as the base separating from the envelope.


----------



## UntilThen

There is no hum at all.... much as I try to make it hum. It's pitch black quietness when there's no music.

High notes so so clear and sweet. Vocals will seduce your ears. Bass will have you begging for mercy. PL will rock your transducers. Make sure you dont use a V Monk plus with it.


----------



## UntilThen

CJG888 said:


> Tubes with metal bases should, where possible, be pulled by the base. This prevents damage, such as the base separating from the envelope.



Show a pic of your tube amp. I love tube amps.


----------



## CJG888

I'm afraid mine is currently packed up with the rest of my main system, anticipating the move to our new house in December (if the build finishes on time!), so here is a picture from the manufacturer's website. This one, of course, has the stock Shuguang 300Bs. The mesh plate "aubergines" are considerably taller, and can be seen above the front panel. The top of the amp (not visible here) is trimmed with strips of solid walnut.

Modern design, with hints of old Marantz...


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## DecentLevi (Sep 26, 2017)

Congrats again UT on the PL Prologue 2 amp. Looks like you must be floating in heavenly sound with that, and struck a lucky deal on one. I'm quite impressed with your impressions of it already, especially of it outclassing the Euforia and even Rangarok. I think you're onto something about the Rag - though a beast of a performer; in hindsight I also thought it sounded a bit on the harsh / over-clinical side and maybe slightly 'dry'.

For me though, price / weight seem a bit impractical. I'll bet you could take it to meets someday, with the help of a somebody to carry it maybe. I'll be satisfied with my Euforia and all it's many top-class tubes and am betting on great synergy with my upcoming Sennheiser HD-380 closed-backs - the _Pro _version is a fairly new entry to the Sennheiser line-up although having a lower number than newer models, and to me is a 'giant-killer' of any closedback sub-$2,000... and for less than 1/2 price of an HD-650!

And for ZMF, I think the Omni is the only of theirs I've tried yet.


----------



## UntilThen

CJG888 said:


> I'm afraid mine is currently packed up with the rest of my main system, anticipating the move to our new house in December (if the build finishes on time!), so here is a picture from the manufacturer's website. This one, of course, has the stock Shuguang 300Bs. The mesh plate "aubergines" are considerably taller, and can be seen above the front panel. The top of the amp (not visible here) is trimmed with strips of solid walnut.
> 
> Modern design, with hints of old Marantz...



Looks solid and I'm sure it's a great stereo integrated tube amp using 300B tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> Congrats again UT on the PL Prologue 2 amp. Looks like you must be floating in heavenly sound with that, and struck a lucky deal on one. I'm quite impressed with your impressions of it already, especially of it outclassing the Euforia and even Rangarok. I think you're onto something about the Rag - though a beast of a performer; in hindsight I also thought it sounded a bit on the harsh / over-clinical side and maybe slightly 'dry'.
> 
> For me though, price / weight seem a bit impractical. I'll bet you could take it to meets someday, with the help of a somebody to carry it maybe. I'll be satisfied with my Euforia and all it's many top-class tubes and am betting on great synergy with my upcoming Sennheiser HD-380 closed-backs - the _Pro _version is a fairly new entry to the Sennheiser line although having a lower number than newer models, and to me is a 'giant-killer' of any closedback sub-$2,000... and for less than 1/2 price of an HD-650!



Thanks DL. Mine isn't the Primaluna Prologue 2. I have the top of the line Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP.

This is the Primaluna Prologue 2.
http://www.primaluna-usa.com/prologue-two/

This is the Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP
http://www.primaluna-usa.com/dialogue-premium-hp-integrated

I didn't buy the PL HP amp to take it to road shows. It's for my private home listening with mainly speakers and then some headphones. I'll be having some new found friends over to have a private GTG. I've already been to 2 of them. This way you get to listen to some stellar sounding HiFi system. At this level, it is indeed HiFi. Also I'm mainly into vinyl now. It sounds great on a good turntable, cartridge and phono amp. Much better than even the top grade digital setup from the few systems I've heard on Sat. 

There will always be those very vocal about their dislike for some products. There have been polarising opinions on Ragnarok. I'm aware of that. However as one who have live with one for 4.5 months now, it is in my opinion a top sounding ss amp. There will be many who will share my sentiments on the Ragnarok thread and equally as many who voiced their dislike, even though they have only heard it for a short while. Of course there will also be the armchair critics. 

Even in the case of Elise. Some have dismissed it but there have been many fans. I'm starting to hear the same whispers in Euforia. Another product is the Redgum amplifiers. I've one on audition now. The Redgum RGi35ENR black series. In a thread I started on stereo.net.au, I've never seen or heard such polarising opinions. Some are so vocal, they even sound mean. Like they have a bone to pick with the product. I find the Redgum amp beautiful sounding. If I had not bought the Primaluna I would have bought the bigger model Redgum RGi120ENR black series. 

I find that in HiFi and Head-Fi, there will be differences of opinions. Not only in Head-Fi but also stereo.net.au and many other forums. When the debate gets heated, I'll  just leave.

In the final equation, everyone needs to audition as many gear for themselves as possible because reviews will differ. People have different preferences and bias. Which is why we have so many brands and head-fi gear. There will be something for everyone.


----------



## UntilThen

For a more visual review of the Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP, here's there official video.


----------



## Rossliew

No doubt the PL is a beauty and a very well made beast of an amp, although its manufactured (to strict tolerances) in China. 

Currently, i'm enjoying my listening with my modest vintage NAD3020 integrated used as a head-amp. Beautiful tonality and enough power on tap for all my cans (save for the Stax). Has a killer MM phono stage as well. Guess I'm pretty happy where i am. For now lol.


----------



## CJG888

UntilThen said:


> Looks solid and I'm sure it's a great stereo integrated tube amp using 300B tubes.



Thanks. Here, BTW, is the TJ "aubergine" 300B:



 

Much better transparency in the upper midrange and treble, and virtually no grain.


----------



## CJG888

Think of it as a blend of 300B and PX25.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> No doubt the PL is a beauty and a very well made beast of an amp, although its manufactured (to strict tolerances) in China.
> 
> Currently, i'm enjoying my listening with my modest vintage NAD3020 integrated used as a head-amp. Beautiful tonality and enough power on tap for all my cans (save for the Stax). Has a killer MM phono stage as well. Guess I'm pretty happy where i am. For now lol.



NAD3020 is a classic for it's time. If you are happy with your gear with the music it's producing then you are a happy man.

With head-fi, I'm pretty much content with Ragnarok and Euforia for amplification duties. I have no further desires to upgrade. After head-fi, I was just turning my attention to my HiFi system. That started with getting the Rega RP8 turntable and Avid phono preamp. I knew I was happy with my speakers so I was looking for a stereo integrated amp. Ragnarok was actually fulfilling that very well but until I heard the Redgum, I wasn't aware of the difference in tone. Comparing gear makes you aware of what your preference is. I did prefer the Redgum over Ragnarok as a stereo amp.

Now with Primaluna for a 3 way comparison, it's quite obvious to me that my ears prefer the PL for stereo amp duties. What is interesting is that as a head-fi headphone amp, I much prefer the PL over Rag and Euforia now. I am not talking about a slight preference. It's pretty massive to my ears. It's pretty full on. You hear all the nuances of the song, with the clarity of a lark and the power and control of Hercules. PL is as athlete as Usain Bolt, as fleet of feet as Mohammed Ali at his prime. It makes my HD800 sounds like a HD1000 - I ain't kidding you. I have been listening to HD800 on the PL for 2 nights now. It has all the texture, fullness and is belting out songs like it's the best headphone in the world. Then I switch over to Eikon and Atticus or LCD-2f and I'm hearing what those headphones are capable of. Sadly I'm aware that I have spend too much time on my music - is there such thing as too much music? 

The PL is one special headphone amp even though it is primarily lauded as a HiFi stereo integrated amp - one of the best according to Stereophile.

If I ever get a chance to hear another top notch tube amp like a Eddie Current Studio, DNA Stellaris or Glenn's 300B, I'll be better able to gauge where the PL stands in the world of top class headphone amps. In fact I'll be able to pit it against the Woo Audio Wa5-le soon. It's not as glamorous s the 3 above but the Wa5 is still a very respectable headphone amp.

Enjoy your music. It's never too much.


----------



## UntilThen

CJG888 said:


> Thanks. Here, BTW, is the TJ "aubergine" 300B:
> 
> 
> 
> Much better transparency in the upper midrange and treble, and virtually no grain.



The 300B is a beautiful looking tube. I do wish to hear a 300B amp one day. I've my made my enquires of the KT150 with the seller. It will be interesting to hear that monstrous tube too.


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> I'll be satisfied with my Euforia and all it's many top-class tubes and am betting on great synergy with my upcoming Sennheiser HD-380 closed-backs - the _Pro _version is a fairly new entry to the Sennheiser line-up although having a lower number than newer models, and to me is a 'giant-killer' of any closedback sub-$2,000... and for less than 1/2 price of an HD-650!



For closed back, you need to listen to Eikon or Atticus. Great sounding headphones in my opinion. Leaves HD650 far behind.


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> NAD3020 is a classic for it's time. If you are happy with your gear with the music it's producing then you are a happy man.
> 
> With head-fi, I'm pretty much content with Ragnarok and Euforia for amplification duties. I have no further desires to upgrade. After head-fi, I was just turning my attention to my HiFi system. That started with getting the Rega RP8 turntable and Avid phono preamp. I knew I was happy with my speakers so I was looking for a stereo integrated amp. Ragnarok was actually fulfilling that very well but until I heard the Redgum, I wasn't aware of the difference in tone. Comparing gear makes you aware of what your preference is. I did prefer the Redgum over Ragnarok as a stereo amp.
> 
> ...



One day perhaps if I venture into 2 channel I will seriously consider the PL...


----------



## UntilThen

Just found out that Kev Deal of Upscale Audio play a big part in Primaluna developments. Here is his showroom.


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 27, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> For closed back, you need to listen to Eikon or Atticus. Great sounding headphones in my opinion. Leaves HD650 far behind.


Not yet getting to hear the Eikon or Atticus, I have heard their Omni as well as many other closed-backs several times each including the entire line from AKG, ATH, Sennheiser, Beyerdynamic, Denon, Ultrasone, Focal, Bose, Pioneer, Sony, B&O, Oppo, V-Moda, Meze, Yamaha, JBL, Shure, Crosszone and many more. This was done over 3 days at likely the world's largest headphone stores, in Tokyo and Osaka using a decent source. As I was seeking the perfect_ low cost _closed-back, the ZMF offerings are in a higher tier, as well as what many regard as the ultimate closed 'can which is the Ether C Flow from Mr. Speakers. To me, the newer HD-380 _Pro _were the most tonally correct, proper, detailed and extended of all at the mid-tier range.

Thinking I had already found my summit with the Focal Spirit Classic, with the Senn. HD-280 not far behind, I was prompted to find a *HD-380 Pro* to demo. Believe me after all this I was not expecting a lower model number from the Sennheiser line to outdo everything else I've tried, and I was in as much disbelief during my multiple listening sessions as some of you may be reading this. It has tight bass that extends extremely deep, dynamics that are immediately fast / tight / snappy, what seems to be 100% perfect tonality / voicing, natural highs and perhaps a holographic soundstage. Their are angled drivers and unusually large cup size allow for an immersive soundstage (Eargonomic Acoustic Refinement technology which angles the transducer to the optimal listening position). Comparing it to their other somewhat new closedback HD-569, which are to me like a closed version of the HD-650, I found the latter to sound quite dull and mid-centric by contrast, wheras the HD-380 Pro was lifelike, sweet and extended... and with absolutely 0 veil. *This is a large departure from the 'house sound' of the Sennheiser line, IMO sounding nothing like the HD-650* - perhaps akin to a blend of the Beyer. DT-770 (on a good amp) and the Senn. HD-800, but with deeper bass. At only $130 new (or less used), these punch far above their pricepoint for closedbacks.

If I had any gripes, it may be just that the soundstage is could be too large at times, and the clamp is somewhat strong, yet with great isolation. Here is a review video from Woo Audio

(and note the cable is detachable. There are a few other negative video reviews, but those were older revisions or poorly amped). These are truly something you've got to try to believe.


----------



## UntilThen

My headphones


----------



## UntilThen

Unbelievable.... 

Price for Elise and Euforia have been raised.

Elise is now 1299 euro = US$1525

Euforia is now 1999 euro = US$2347


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## MIKELAP (Sep 27, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> Unbelievable....
> 
> Price for Elise and Euforia have been raised.
> 
> ...


               If they would had been priced like this from the start maybe ,but doing this know .Dont think its going to help sales


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

UntilThen said:


> Unbelievable....
> 
> Price for Elise and Euforia have been raised.
> 
> ...



Yeah exchange rates are not great and the cost of things is going up, guessing they needed to up their prices 

I remember getting my Espressivo for around £200, now it's about double that


----------



## DecentLevi

Yeah either F-A have upgraded their new models, or needed to balance profits. Either way feels like I just won money on mine, Lol


----------



## CJG888

That's me out then. Reminds me of Altmann's pricing strategy for the Tera-player!

Shame, it seems like a good amp - but at its new price point, it will face a whole new world of competition.

Looks like I'll have to wait for a sensibly-priced used Zana Deux to turn up. I'm not in a hurry...


----------



## Levanter

Well considering the over hyped praise they are getting... 
Their products were good for their old price, but with their current over inflated prices their products are quite underwhelming


----------



## CJG888

Yup, get ready Euforia... you're going into the ring with the Zana Deux SE. Good luck with that.


----------



## MIKELAP

CJG888 said:


> That's me out then. Reminds me of Altmann's pricing strategy for the Tera-player!
> 
> Shame, it seems like a good amp - but at its new price point, it will face a whole new world of competition.
> 
> Looks like I'll have to wait for a sensibly-priced used Zana Deux to turn up. I'm not in a hurry...


Used is also good. Bought a few amps used never had a problem


----------



## UntilThen

@Rossliew aren't you glad you bought my 'new' Elise?  The introductory price for Elise was US$499 when it first came out. For Euforia it was US$1259. It did get a good review though. http://earphiles.org/2017/09/feliks-audio-euforia-review/

I'll have to revise my Euforia price now. Someone wants to buy it from me. Someone local. Expect me to sell off the 6sn7 and 6as7s too. Ross, are you interested?  Now my Primaluna seems cheap in comparison. 

It's been the 3rd night and Prima Donna continue to stagger me. The level of details and clarity is simply stunning. There's a nice click when you power it on. Everything sounds nice and looks nice on PL. I've found a local seller who will sell me 8 x Tungsol EL34 and 2 x Tungsol 12au7 NOS 1950s for $416 including express post.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm having a good laugh because just when the other forum is starting to love Elise and Euforia, the prices went up sky-high. Now they are in rage. I think the new prices have just pushed them to buy EC Zana Deux S instead. I was actually keen to get hold of a ZDS for comparison. Even a DNA Stratus.

Unlikely now though. I think the best or one of the best is in the PL that I have now. When I hear the tone I just know that this is a special stereo and headphone amp. Pure class. This is fidelity.


----------



## mordy (Sep 27, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> I'm having a good laugh because just when the other forum is starting to love Elise and Euforia, the prices went up sky-high. Now they are in rage. I think the new prices have just pushed them to buy EC Zana Deux S instead. I was actually keen to get hold of a ZDS for comparison. Even a DNA Stratus.
> 
> Unlikely now though. I think the best or one of the best is in the PL that I have now. When I hear the tone I just know that this is a special stereo and headphone amp. Pure class. This is fidelity.


Hi UT,

In which country is the Prima Luna manufactured? The Netherlands? China?
PS: Found the answer:
Conceived in Holland and USA and built in China.

So here is my prediction for Feliks Audio if they want to expand the distribution, market share and lowering the prices:
Conceived in Poland/Britain and built in China......


----------



## 2359glenn

UntilThen said:


> Unbelievable....
> 
> Price for Elise and Euforia have been raised.
> 
> ...



Wow I should raise my prices


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 27, 2017)

2359glenn said:


> Wow I should raise my prices



Yes you should Glenn but not until I order an amp from you. 

I will message you tonight Glenn.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 27, 2017)

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> In which country is the Prima Luna manufactured? The Netherlands? China?
> PS: Found the answer:
> ...



Correct Mordy. The man who started it is a Dutch who got Kevin Deal on board. This made in China amp is under strict supervision and is one of the nicest amp I've seen in terms of quality and built. It is as good as any quality amp.

For that matter, AudioGd Master 9 and 10 are very substantial amps and superbably built - they are made in China.


----------



## Hyp0xia

Just want to say I bought a Euforia right before the price change. Hasn't even shipped yet, so I'm feeling pretty good right now.


----------



## Althalus

Hyp0xia said:


> Just want to say I bought a Euforia right before the price change. Hasn't even shipped yet, so I'm feeling pretty good right now.


Lucky you


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Wow I should raise my prices




Please dont!


----------



## sotto123 (Sep 28, 2017)

This is quite the surprise. I'm happy I ordered an Euforia last month which I'm still waiting for.

I wonder if Feliks Audio will live to regret this. Can they justify this price increase out of nowhere? It's substantial at close to $1,000 for the Euforia with not particularly major changes.

At the current price I would save a little and buy the ZDS, and this is from someone who would have to pay 20% VAT and shipping on top for the ZDS too. I wonder if people outside Europe will even bother with FA anymore.

Perhaps that's the idea behind this. Focus on Europe as ordering from the USA results in similar prices after VAT and shipping have been accounted for. People in North America have a wide selection of tube amps to choose from anyway.


----------



## Hyp0xia

Well, having not even heard my Euforia yet, I can say I would not have even considered purchasing one at its new price and I think a lot of people are going to feel the same way, whether it's the Euforia, the Elise, or the Espressivo.


----------



## yakcyll

I literally learned about them yesterday after a guy at an audio store recommended them to me (as affordable, no less!). When I saw the prices later, my immediate reaction was 'What, this certainly isn't what I expected.' Wish I had a chance to try them before they went up; the guy kept them in high regard, made me curious.


----------



## CJG888

With no output transformers, fairly plentiful current production tubes and a plain, if well-made chassis, the margins must be fairly attractive.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 28, 2017)

While all of you are complaining of FA's price increase, I have one more amp to purchase before I call it THE END.

That amp will be Glenn OTL 6 x 6BL7 or 4 x 6AS7 or 2 x 6336. It will have 6.3 / 12 / 25 volt switch and a optimise switch for 5998. It will have 1/4 inch socket or 4 pin xlr socket and Gold Point 47 steps attenuator. Too many things to list. Looks like a wonder amp to me.

I'm so looking forward to this. Ross you have to sell the Valvo C3G/s back to me.

....and I will have to change this thread's title or migrate somewhere because this is really UT's audio adventures.


----------



## DecentLevi

sotto123 said:


> This is quite the surprise. I'm happy I ordered an Euforia last month which I'm still waiting for.
> 
> I wonder if Feliks Audio will live to regret this. Can they justify this price increase out of nowhere? It's substantial at close to $1,000 for the Euforia with not particularly major changes.
> 
> ...


Though I can't say the same for Canada, I wasn't charged tax or VAT for either my (former) Elise and current Euforia to the US. IIRC, standard shipping was also included, though I opted for an express service that didn't speed things up much. It was a MYSIWYG price. (what you see is what you get).



UntilThen said:


> While all of you are complaining of FA's price increase, I have one more amp to purchase before I call it THE END.
> 
> That amp will be Glenn OTL 6 x 6BL7 or 4 x 6AS7 or 2 x 6336. It will have 6.3 / 12 / 25 volt switch and a optimise switch for 5998. It will have 1/4 inch socket or 4 pin xlr socket and Gold Point 47 steps attenuator. Too many things to list. Looks like a wonder amp to me.
> 
> ...


Wow UT, I assume though nothing was lacking in the sound of the PL amp, curiosity got the best of you? Would you mind to mention about the general price on the Glenn amp? That would be cool to hear a comparison of your Glenn and the PL amp sometime.


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> Wow UT, I assume though nothing was lacking in the sound of the PL amp, curiosity got the best of you? Would you mind to mention about the general price on the Glenn amp? That would be cool to hear a comparison of your Glenn and the PL amp sometime.



There is nothing lacking in Primaluna. I'm still in lunar orbit with that amp. Whether it's speakers or headphones, it's one classy amp and tone. 

Much as I like the Ragnarok, I am still at heart a tube roller. I need to rock and roll.  With Euforia, I've already set my target and stick with 6sn7 and 6as7. I've rolled all that I could. I've got nearly every 6as7 and it's variants under the sun. The only power tube I haven't tried is the WE421A and that's indecently expensive.

So then I thought of Glenn's 6 x 6BL7 OTL amp. I reread this review and got more interested in it. Being able to run cheap 6BL7 tubes and 'cheap' 6336 tubes makes it appealing. When I say cheap, I mean cheaper than the tubes for expensive Primaluna which requires eight !!!. This is the Tweafi review - http://www.tweak-fi.com/apps/blog/e...nce-system-part-2-glenn-s-headphone-amplifier

Anyhow, I started talking to Glenn and lo and behold I've put down a payment for the Lundahl transformer and the gold point stepped attenuator - 47 steps !!! This is what Glenn told me what the OTL amp can do -

Four or six 6BL7/6BX7 OR two or four 6AS7 OR two 6336 for output.
Two C3g sockets plus 6.3>12.6>25.2 volt switch for the SN7 socket you can use 6SN7 , 12SN7/B36/FDD20 with adapter
and the 25SN7/1633 or the 13D1 that is a 25SN7.
Gold point stepped attenuator - 47 steps.
It will have 1/4" TRS and 4pin XLR headphone jacks. 115 or 230 volt switchable power.

How exciting is that?

Oh Glenn is making a EL3N amp now and then he will start build on my OTL. 

As for comparisons ...... I'm inundated with good amps lately. Euforia, La Figaro 339, Ragnarok, Primaluna plus extensive listening with Violectric V281. There are no bad amps here. Just variations. Oh well ... some are better. 

Now I will finally be able to hear what 6 x 6BL7 will sound like or 2 x 6336.... with FDD20 or C3G or Sylvania 6sn7w as drivers. Oh you only need one driver. How good is that?


----------



## UntilThen

I shouldn't mention the price of Glenn's OTL publicly. If you need to know, you can message Glenn instead or bribe me to tell you privately and I will charge you $1 million for that information.


----------



## MIKELAP

UntilThen said:


> I shouldn't mention the price of Glenn's OTL publicly. If you need to know, you can message Glenn instead or bribe me to tell you privately and I will charge you $1 million for that information.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Wow I should raise my prices



Funnily this was what triggered it. Thought I should get one before the price goes up.


----------



## Rossliew

lol with this amp you can sell the Euforia. No one better than Glenn..

That otl sounds like what @gibosi has and it is one very flexible and awesome sounding amp. Truth be told, with this and the PL, you should sell off all your other head amps


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> lol with this amp you can sell the Euforia. No one better than Glenn..
> 
> That otl sounds like what @gibosi has and it is one very flexible and awesome sounding amp. Truth be told, with this and the PL, you should sell off all your other head amps



Hello Ross.... did you hear my earlier message to you? Sell me back the Valvo C3g/s and Mullard ECC31 cheap !!! 

Mine is more like what @lukeap69 has. I think it's this. I wonder how heavy this is?


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Hello Ross.... did you hear my earlier message to you? Sell me back the Valvo C3g/s and Mullard ECC31 cheap !!!
> 
> Mine is more like what @lukeap69 has. I think it's this. I wonder how heavy this is?



About 12kg if I recall correctly. It is heavier on the left side. My Ragnarok is heavier though which is around 15kg.


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> Hello Ross.... did you hear my earlier message to you? Sell me back the Valvo C3g/s and Mullard ECC31 cheap !!!
> 
> Mine is more like what @lukeap69 has. I think it's this. I wonder how heavy this is?



That's a nice amp lol! Heavy on the transformer side. Sell u the tubes...hmmm...hahahah


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> About 12kg if I recall correctly. It is heavier on the left side. My Ragnarok is heavier though which is around 15kg.



We have identical gear. I have Ragnarok too and yes that is heavy. However, the Primaluna is the killer at 30kg. I almost damage my kidneys carrying that monster.


----------



## Rossliew

I'm listening to the Elise with the ECC31 tubes plus 4x EL3N - kinda low gain-ish but still very musical, with great extension at both ends of the spectrum.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> I'm listening to the Elise with the ECC31 tubes plus 4x EL3N - kinda low gain-ish but still very musical, with great extension at both ends of the spectrum.



Just get yourself the Glenn EL3N amp. I thought of getting that but then I realised I sold all my EL3N tubes to you !!!


----------



## Rossliew

I had an EL3N once and sold it off recently..needed the funds for other commitments. Not going back there although i did toy with that idea but using a different transformer than the Lundahls.

Now that you mentioned it, you actually just need 1 GOTL and 1 GEL3N and you can sell the rest save for the PL to handle speaker duties. Period.


----------



## UntilThen

@lukeap69 in that picture, you have 2 C3G running. Can you use one or does it need 2? Likewise if you use 6sn7, do you need one or 2? Likewise FDD20?


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> We have identical gear. I have Ragnarok too and yes that is heavy. However, the Primaluna is the killer at 30kg. I almost damage my kidneys carrying that monster.



Oh my. I thought the Rag is heavy...


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> @lukeap69 in that picture, you have 2 C3G running. Can you use one or does it need 2? Likewise if you use 6sn7, do you need one or 2? Likewise FDD20?



I have always used 2 C3g. Not sure if running just one will be okay. Perhaps @2359glenn can clarify. My OTL cannot use 6SN7 IIRC.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Now that you mentioned it, you actually just need 1 GOTL and 1 GEL3N and you can sell the rest save for the PL to handle speaker duties. Period.



So you want to buy my 1999 euro Euforia? and the Ragnarok? We can arrange something lol.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> I have always used 2 C3g. Not sure if running just one will be okay. Perhaps @2359glenn can clarify. My OTL cannot use 6SN7 IIRC.



Ah ha... looks like our amps will be different.... base on this...

Two C3g sockets plus 6.3>12.6>25.2 volt switch for the SN7 socket you can use 6SN7 , 12SN7/B36/FDD20 with adapter
and the 25SN7/1633 or the 13D1 that is a 25SN7.

That seems to me that mine will have 2 C3G socket plus one socket for SN7 with a switch for 6.3 > 12.6 > 25.2 volt. So that means I either use the C3G or the SN7 but not together.

@2359glenn  can you enlighten me. Thanks.


----------



## 2359glenn

If using the C3g you have to use 2 one for each channel.
Cannot use the SN7 and C3g together one or the other
A 6SN7 is a dual triode and will do both left and right.


----------



## 2359glenn

UT
Do you want to have HEXFRED SS rectifiers or 42EC4/PY500 rectifier tubes?


----------



## lukeap69

UntilThen said:


> Ah ha... looks like our amps will be different.... base on this...
> 
> Two C3g sockets plus 6.3>12.6>25.2 volt switch for the SN7 socket you can use 6SN7 , 12SN7/B36/FDD20 with adapter
> and the 25SN7/1633 or the 13D1 that is a 25SN7.
> ...



Yours will have more flexibility. I am glad I didn't have more choices to roll more tubes. My GEC 6AS7's, 7236s, and 6BX7"s are all what I alternate right now. Oh, sometimes the Bendix 6080 Graphite plates too.


----------



## hypnos1

sotto123 said:


> This is quite the surprise. I'm happy I ordered an Euforia last month which I'm still waiting for.
> 
> I wonder if Feliks Audio will live to regret this. Can they justify this price increase out of nowhere? It's substantial at close to $1,000 for the Euforia with not particularly major changes.
> 
> ...



Hi sotto123...sad news indeed re. F-A's unfortunate decision to raise prices by such an unexpected amount, but one they haven't taken lightly and for reasons expanded on more over at the Euforia thread.

Keeping everything in-house will surely put them in a more difficult position compared to those manufacturers taking advantage of cheaper production costs in such as China, but I for one admire them for doing so. Only time will tell if such strategies allow a company to survive in this cut-throat world of commerce, and I wish them all the very best of luck in this unenviable position.

_*IMPORTANT NEWS!!!...*_For some, however, the blow will be softened somewhat, as the new prices will be different for those outside Europe...ie._* non-EU countries will be exempt from the 23% VAT charge*_.

ps. May I please remind folks this thread is meant to be for FELIKS AUDIO TUBE AMPS....thanks...


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> UT
> Do you want to have HEXFRED SS rectifiers or 42EC4/PY500 rectifier tubes?



Wow I got up today to more excitement. Thanks for all the replies Glenn. We shall continue discussions on 2359glenn / studio thread here. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1053

Cheers to all watching UT's audio odyssey.


----------



## aqsw (Sep 30, 2017)

OMG UT,

I never thought I could compete with you, but I have gone yo a speaker setup too. (Sort of)

Went to my audio guy  and  we made a deal.

I'm doing a layaway.

6 months
Rogue Altlas Magnum
Focal 1037bes (store demos)

Those speakers sounded so good in his room!!
He said 100 watts of tube power will make them sing.

Anyways
Space tech dac to Euphoria to Atlas to Focal.

Elise coming home with Hegel for headphone use.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> OMG UT,
> 
> I never thought I could compete with you, but I have gone yo a speaker setup too. (Sort of)
> 
> ...




LOL Aq. Good on you !!! What tubes did you get with the Rogue Atlas? KT120? Very nice amp and speakers. !!!

Are these the ones?


----------



## aqsw (Sep 30, 2017)

Yes 120s, same tubes as I have in my dac. They are monsters.


----------



## aqsw

The amp is cheap. Those speakers are the damage.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Yes 120s, same tubes as I have in my dac. They are monsters.



KT120 are monsters but I was going to buy eight Tung Sol KT150 for my PL. That's the biggest monsters and it will set me back by $800. Looks like it will have to wait.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> The amp is cheap. Those speakers are the damage.



Well those speakers looks really nice. You don't need Focal Utopia now.


----------



## aqsw

Actually, I won't get much time with the iamp and speakers. I just want it. Most of my listening is still headphone.
My son loves it. I think he wants me to croak now, so he can put it in his house..I still might get the Utooias ifIcan get rid of the T1s and the elears.
Yea 8x 150 s is alot, but that PL is a beauty.


----------



## aqsw

Just downsized big time. Kids are gone.

Have a great man cave, but I'm going to have to put about 15 grand into soundproofing .
.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Just downsized big time. Kids are gone.
> 
> Have a great man cave, but I'm going to have to put about 15 grand into soundproofing .
> .



Very nice. Room treatment is important. Kids gone is important too.  My son just came home to visit me and was shocked to see the PL with so many tubes. I agree. Much as I like speakers, I still love headphones.


----------



## aqsw

See some of the new speakers nowadays 100 like nothing. CRAZY


----------



## aqsw

I'm drunk and listening to Dave Mason. I love that guy. I guess I'm showing my age.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> I'm drunk and listening to Dave Mason. I love that guy. I guess I'm showing my age.





aqsw said:


> See some of the new speakers nowadays 100 like nothing. CRAZY



First of all when you are drunk never get on eBay. You will click to buy everything.

Secondly, stereo tube amps are very high current. My PL will drive even Martin Logans. I heard a Luxman L-550A ii 25w class A drive a monster pair of white speakers. It's tsunami bass and a moving experience.


----------



## aqsw (Sep 30, 2017)

Bbb


----------



## aqsw (Sep 30, 2017)

Sorry, no ebay.
I have dealt with this dude for at least 30 years.

American hifi.com


----------



## UntilThen

We are all showing our age. This love for music and nice gear. It's a sign of aging like fine wine. 

My daughter just told me we're going to a Stevie Nicks concert in November 2017. That's better than any sound system.


----------



## aqsw (Sep 30, 2017)

Hey UT, Did you ever check out my daughters band?

Wildhomes.com

They sound pretty god on YouTube. I'm predjudist though.


----------



## UntilThen (Sep 30, 2017)

Yes I did check out your daughters band and I think they good and I am not bias. 

Did you check out my Primaluna all lighted up?


----------



## aqsw

I know that PL. Crazy amp. Way overkill for me. I love it!


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> Yes I did check out your daughters band and I think they good and I am not bias.
> 
> Did you check out my Primaluna all lighted up?



That's gonna kill the planet faster than a Megatron lol!


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> That's gonna kill the planet faster than a Megatron lol!



That's with KT88. Imagine eight KT150. My household lights will dimmed.


----------



## Rossliew

Well that amp will keep u well warmed during winter months, not to mention put a huge grin on the faces of your electric utility company


----------



## UntilThen

I am pleasantly surprised at how good the DAC component in my Auralic Aries Mini sounds. It uses a ESS Sabre 90182KM chip. The Mini supports all your usual file formats (AAC, AIFF, ALAC, APE, DIFF, DSF, FLAC, MP3, OGG, WAV, WV and WMA) as well as PCM resolutions up to 32-bit/384kHz and DSD to DSD256.

Clarity in the upper frequencies is very good indeed and really nicely detailed and open, the midrange showed strong vocal presence and clarity of tone, bass lines are punchy and detailed.

It looks like my Yggdrasil can go back to the study for DAC duties with Ragnarok and Euforia.... and eventually Glenn's OTL amp.


----------



## UntilThen

Spoke too soon. Having gotten used to Yggy, the ESS Sabre chip sounds too sharp at the high frequencies for my ears. Listening to 'November Rain' by Guns & Roses now and I could do with a little dialing down of the treble.


----------



## DecentLevi

UntilThen said:


> Spoke too soon. Having gotten used to Yggy, the ESS Sabre chip sounds too sharp at the high frequencies for my ears. Listening to 'November Rain' by Guns & Roses now and I could do with a little dialing down of the treble.


Indeed that's interesting how DS / Sabre chips can have your mind lured by their sound, as if nothing's awry, only to have an R2R DAC thrill you even more. Although IMO occasionally for certain genres like some electronic music, a DS DAC can be preferable for a more 'electronic' sound. And now some DACs use dual sabre chips in parallel which by all accounts to me sounds twice as good as one. Then there's the Hugo 2, of which the staff members said is somehow better than R2R technology (their words not mine, but I would like to test their theory).


----------



## DecentLevi

OK a breath of fresh air... I've created a new thread that doesn't 'cost a thing' or encourage further spending. A humurous thread about how to tell if you've taken it too far:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/how-to-tell-if-youre-an-audiophile.861666/

PLEASE POST SOMETHING FUNNY THERE, FOLKS


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> Indeed that's interesting how DS / Sabre chips can have your mind lured by their sound, as if nothing's awry, only to have an R2R DAC thrill you even more. Although IMO occasionally for certain genres like some electronic music, a DS DAC can be preferable for a more 'electronic' sound. And now some DACs use dual sabre chips in parallel which by all accounts to me sounds twice as good as one. Then there's the Hugo 2, of which the staff members said is somehow better than R2R technology (their words not mine, but I would like to test their theory).



Perhaps. It all depends on individuals. What sounds as a bit sharp to me might be just right for others - on some genres. No hard and fast rules for sure.

For me, now with Yggdrasil and Ragnarok in my study, I can listen for hours without feeling fatigued. The sabre chip in the Mini feeding Primaluna and driving my speakers sounded ok at lower volume but once I crank up the volume, that's when I winched.  However my main source in the lounge is my turntable so that's ok.


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> OK a breath of fresh air... I've created a new thread that doesn't 'cost a thing' or encourage further spending. A humurous thread about how to tell if you've taken it too far:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/how-to-tell-if-youre-an-audiophile.861666/
> 
> PLEASE POST SOMETHING FUNNY THERE, FOLKS



Sounds fun but I can't post there because I'll be influencing you to spend money.


----------



## UntilThen

It's been a while since I use Euforia because I've been hot swapping between Primaluna and Ragnarok.

This morning I strapped on ZMF Eikon and flick the power switch for Euforia. What greeted my ears is pure sweet symphony. This amp is aptly named Euforia. The mid range and treble is pure and unadulterated. It's sweet and clear. Clearer than the 1st of Spring. I love the tone. If anything to fault, I'd say the bass could be more solid and punchy. It is not really lacking much in the lower registers but compare to Primaluna and Ragnarok, it does sound lighter at the bottom end. A minor gripe though because another track just came on and I had my wow moment. Such sweet melody. 

Look, it's not for me to judge on FA's price increase. I'm just commenting on an amp's capabilities. To this end, I can recommend Euforia wholeheartedly. If you had ordered before the price increase then lucky you. If not, you can buy my Euforia. This amp needs to be utilised but with so many amps that I have now, it's a shame to not be getting a 100% of my time. I have only one pair of ears though.


----------



## UntilThen

This would be the only reason to sell Euforia because the VPI TNT 3 at $5250 is a holy mackerel moment. @aqsw are you sober now. Buy this turntable !!!


----------



## mordy

Is this Haltron tube a RCA?


----------



## UntilThen

Hi Mordy, that looks like a RCA. 

I've ordered a Glenn OTL with 6 x 6BL7 or 4 / 2 x 6AS7 or 2 x 6336. That's my further audio journey. Looks to be very interesting.


----------



## MIKELAP

mordy said:


> Is this Haltron tube a RCA?
> Rickie Lee Jones album ,if memory serves me that was her first album ,good one .


----------



## UntilThen

Haha Mike, you recognise the singer instead. Yes that's Rickie Lee Jones.


----------



## aqsw

Beautiful tt UT, but I have sobered up and I'm sticking to digital with my Space Tech and Hegel Dacs.

The new amp and speakers will test my budget for about 6 months.

Cheers


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 3, 2017)

UT I've been wondering if this on your PL amp has anything to do with your getting the Glenn amp - the tubes sit so far down leaving little little base area to grip, how do you remove tubes without separating the glass?

EDIT: Oh I see those are the miniature tubes in front that don't have bases, LOL. But the KT-150 tubes look difficult to grip as well, right?

Good to see the Euforia holds up in a few regards at least, to the bigger amps.


----------



## DecentLevi

edited above post


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## UntilThen

There will be further changes to my stereo system as well as my head-fi system. I'm evaluating Primaluna and Redgum RGi120 with my speakers in the comfort of my lounge.

Getting Glenn's OTL amp is something I wanted to do for a while. I had to listen for myself how 6 x 6BL7 with GEC or Marconi B36 sounds. Or 2 x 6336b. Or 4 x 5998 with the optimised switch. It should be interesting. What is more interesting is how Glenn's EL3N sounds. Something I've been curious for a while. There have been some very good reports from people who owns very good amps.


----------



## Rossliew

Get the EL3N - it will complement the OTL very well. Or it can replace the OTL as well.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Get the EL3N - it will complement the OTL very well. Or it can replace the OTL as well.



The sun is setting on a chapter of my audio journey. I'm on to a new chapter and will be leaving this thread soon. I'll be like you, going through gear like the seasons. You left me with a terrible disease Ross.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> The sun is setting on a chapter of my audio journey. I'm on to a new chapter and will be leaving this thread soon. I'll be like you, going through gear like the seasons. You left me with a terrible disease Ross.


UT - Where art thou going?


----------



## UntilThen

Over to Transformers realm where else.... I mean Glennsformers.


----------



## Maalis

How competetive are FA amps in their new price range (compared to stuff like Woo Audio etc.)? Before the price hike Elise would have been a no-brainer for me but I'm late and now the decision is much harder.


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

Before I make a classified, anybody here interested in my Elise? As new, condition 10/10. Hardly used: had to share time with Icon Audio HP8 Mk2 and Auralic Taurus Mk2 at first, awaiting a DNA Stratus. Now that my Stratus arrived, the Elise is just sitting on my audio rack and taking up space (and dust).


----------



## UntilThen

Maalis said:


> How competetive are FA amps in their new price range (compared to stuff like Woo Audio etc.)? Before the price hike Elise would have been a no-brainer for me but I'm late and now the decision is much harder.



Price aside, I've compared Elise with Woo Audio Wa6se and Wa2. I prefer Elise tone. Liquid, clear, just the right balance of lush and warm, good transient response, this amp is certainly worth more than the $649 that I paid new.

In my opinion, Feliks Audio priced their amps very low, probably to get a toe into the market. Even with the price before the increase at $849, I never felt that it was too high. Ultimately what is the worth of the amps is up to the listener.

You will love the tone of Elise and Euforia.... and their very neat and clean design. The tube compliments of 6sn7 and 6as7 are a great choice.


----------



## UntilThen

CoLdAsSauLt said:


> Before I make a classified, anybody here interested in my Elise? As new, condition 10/10. Hardly used: had to share time with Icon Audio HP8 Mk2 and Auralic Taurus Mk2 at first, awaiting a DNA Stratus. Now that my Stratus arrived, the Elise is just sitting on my audio rack and taking up space (and dust).



There you go Maalis. You can buy this Elise. 

Congrats Cold on the DNA Stratus. I ordered a Glenn 6x6BL7 OTL amp instead because I have too many good 6sn7 and 6as7 tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

I came back here to make another posting as a farewell to Euforia. I've enjoyed Elise and Euforia for the last 2 years. It's time to move on.

Last night, I received this note from the buyer of my Euforia..... 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wow!

Speechless mate, ive only had one side of Dire Straits Communique and i just cant believe what im hearing.  Exactly the same upgrade as when i went from SS integrated to tube monos.  That Schiit Ragnarok must be an absolute titan if its moved this amp out of your setup.  I was questioning my upgrade to HD800 until 30 mins ago they really sounded light on compared with HD600 on my old Rega headphone amp.  This just drips of tone and musicality and the soundstage and depth is ridiculous, not to mention dynamics!

I think after this i might have to get a tube pre amp and tube phono stage aswell!

Many thanks for offering this amp for sale i am super pleased with it and it looks awesome to boot, really goes well aesthetically with my Rega gear which is all the same colour.

Cheers.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm glad Euforia went to a good home and an appreciative buyer. In my head-fi journey, I've learned that it is as great a joy to share as it is to experience it yourself. Euforia sounds great but this year alone, I've heard many great sounding amps. I soon discovered that if you don't sample what's good out there, you will never know.

What's good out there that I've heard that to my ears are better than Euforia? Here's a list:-

Ragnarok
Woo Audio Wa22
Woo Audio Wa33  ---- this can be incredible
Violectric v281
Simeaudio Moon 430HAD

Lastly, without being bias at all, my final take on La Figaro 339 vs Euforia. These 2 headphone amps goes head to head in my opinion. Different presentations but both with their own strengths. Euforia excels with vocals. It's dripping with luscious juicy midrange tones. High notes are just as seductive. It's a warm and lush tone without going overboard. With HD800 and T1, there's incredible synergy. La Figaro 339, on the other hand, has an awesome bass weight and low end slam. It is just as revealing in the mids and highs. Soundstage wise it beats Euforia easily. It would be hard to pick a winner between the two. Given the current prices for these 2 amps though, it's a no brainer.

So farewell Euforia. I've given you all the praises due unto you but I am also balanced in my opinions. The truth is that there are many capable headphone amps out there of varying prices.

Adios,
UT


----------



## aqsw

see you UT, 

Although we don't agreee about alot of things, especially dacs, I know that you are passionate about this hobby and I do respect you for alot of your opinions.
Good luck in your future audio endeavours.

Jim


----------



## UntilThen

Hi Jim,

Fancy knowing your real name finally. Diversity is good. There is no right or wrong in this hobby. Someone has this saying in their signature.

One man's noise is another man's music.

So it's good to see we all have our preferences. Ultimately enjoy your music with the gear you love.

And I am sure we will talk more Jim. Do know that whatever unkind things I say in the past, I am truly apologetic. We will remain friends always.

Matt


----------



## aqsw

I feel the same Matt,

All water under the bridge. One thing we all agree on, { or we wouldn't be here) is our love of music.
How we hear it doesn't matter.

Cheers !


----------



## canthearyou

After almost 4 months my Elise was freed from customs and is being repaired by Feliks Audio. 

I canceled my purchase of the Euforia for the time being.


----------



## UntilThen

I admire your patience.


----------



## UntilThen

canthearyou said:


> After almost 4 months my Elise was freed from customs and is being repaired by Feliks Audio.
> 
> I canceled my purchase of the Euforia for the time being.



It's incredible that your introduction to Feliks Audio amps has taken so long. The Elise that I bought at $649 is incredible value. I too had mine send back to FA for a complete renewal because the internals have kind of burn out. Lukasz told me that they make it better than the original Elise. It's more like a Euforia now. That amp is with @Rossliew now. I hope he keeps it. It's special. 

Elise and Euforia, particularly Euforia, has a classy refined tone. I love the voicing that Henryz did to these headphones. Every tube amps have their own characteristics. Elise /  Euforia project a tone that is clear, full of details, with a good dose of warm and lushness. It's not overly warm and lush. It's done just right even with a multitude of tubes. There's no jagged edge to the tone. It's smooth and fluid. It's a refined tone. The frequency spectrum is quite seamless but don't expect a kick ass low end or bass. If that is what you want, you're better served with other tube amps. 

I think you'll be rewarded when Elise returns to you. Keep it and enjoy it. It's a neat looking amp that neither look or sound offensive. On the contrary, it's a suitably sized amp for desktop.

I will miss Euforia but I'm getting a Glenn OTL amp that can run a multitude of tubes and I have great expectations of it. When I first read about this amp, I knew I wanted it someday and that someday will be soon. Running 6 x 6BL7 with a pair of C3Gs in a custom made amp will be special. No ugly adapters. I cannot stand ugly adapters and using external power supplies. Did that and done that with Elise but never again. Glenn's OTL amp is a very special, custom made OTL amp with great flexibility. More importantly, I want to hear the voicing for myself, especially with 6336 tubes.


----------



## canthearyou

My Elise is on its way back to me. Here's to hoping for a fast, smooth delivery.


----------



## UntilThen

Congrats ! Enjoy it and let me know what you think about it.


----------



## Gym_Turtle (Nov 24, 2017)

No clue on how to gauge if anyone is going to answer my question.

I have a Feliks Euforia with stock tubes (Winged C 6AS7Gs and PSVane 6SN7s). My issue is the amp putting instruments in the forefront and drowning out the vocals (I notice it the most on David Bowie songs). I was wondering if anyone has any tube rolling recommendations to remedy this issue? I have no clue if this is a problem with my headphones, as I’ve only tried it on my one portable pair, since my other gear is in a storage container.


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

Gym_Turtle said:


> No clue on how to gauge if anyone is going to answer my question.
> 
> I have a Feliks Euforia with stock tubes (Winged C 6AS7Gs and PSVane 6SN7s). My issue is the amp putting instruments in the forefront and drowning out the vocals (I notice it the most on David Bowie songs). I was wondering if anyone has any tube rolling recommendations to remedy this issue? I have no clue if this is a problem with my headphones, as I’ve only tried it on my one portable pair, since my other gear is in a storage container.



That depends on your portable gear. Big chance that portable gear is low impedance stuff and severely interacts with the Euforia's high output-Z (especially multi-driver balanced armature IEMs), altering its frequency response to a great extent.


----------



## Gym_Turtle

CoLdAsSauLt said:


> That depends on your portable gear. Big chance that portable gear is low impedance stuff and severely interacts with the Euforia's high output-Z (especially multi-driver balanced armature IEMs), altering its frequency response to a great extent.


Yea, I thought so. Has anyone done testing with different impedance headphones with the Euforia? How would a 50 ohm or 100 ohm headphone like the Ether or HD700 fair on the Euforia?


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

Gym_Turtle said:


> Yea, I thought so. Has anyone done testing with different impedance headphones with the Euforia? How would a 50 ohm or 100 ohm headphone like the Ether or HD700 fair on the Euforia?



It's not all about the "nominal" impedance, rather about the impedance curve.
Planar magnetic headphones tend to have an almost ruler flat impedance curve. While the amp will have a less firm grip on the low impedance planar driver, the results can be surprisingly pleasing against all odds and 1/8 damping factor rules of thumb; the frequency curve won't be altered after all. 
A dynamic like the HD700 usually has a huge impedance bump around its primary resonance frequency. A high output impedance will boost the frequencies with high headphone impedance. A high output-Z kind of applies the headphone's impedance curve as an EQ on top of the frequency curve, depending on the impedances at hand to a bigger or lesser extent. So looking up the impedance curve is a good way to predict the high output-Z's influence on your headphones frequency wise.


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

For those seeing themselves outpriced by the recent price shift, I'm selling my mint Elise. Feel free to make a reasonable offer!

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-feliks-audio-elise.869646/


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Just placed an order for the Espressivo MKII.  Seeing that the prices were recently bumped hurts my soul, I'm a little late to the party, but at least the price was increased with improvements to this model!  Hopefully, they are worth it


----------



## riverita

Hello friends. I am a Feliks Elise holder and my question is if I could connect it to a turntable. Thanks very much.


----------



## DecentLevi

riverita said:


> Hello friends. I am a Feliks Elise holder and my question is if I could connect it to a turntable. Thanks very much.


Hey there and welcome! Most certainly. As with any amp, it can connect to any line-level (standard) audio source via RCA cables. In fact several F.A. amp users have enjoyed vinyl setups very well. 

PS - feel free to post on this thread, which is more active currently - for the Euforia, which is like an upgraded Elise. 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-euforia-a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing.831743/


----------



## riverita

thans you Levi.


----------



## hypnos1

riverita said:


> Hello friends. I am a Feliks Elise holder and my question is if I could connect it to a turntable. Thanks very much.



Hi riverita...and great to hear of another name who is happy(?!) with F-A's Elise...you're in good company!! 

As @DecentLevi said  you can feed this amp with any _standard_ line level signal....but of course, that's assuming you have a phono preamp in place!!

Good luck, and ENJOY!...CJ


----------



## riverita

Thanks hypnoNo, at this time I do not have any. Can you recommend me one?


----------



## hypnos1

riverita said:


> Thanks hypnoNo, at this time I do not have any. Can you recommend me one?



A lot will depend on the quality of your TT, and just how much you're willing to pay. But I personally found the Pro-ject phono preamp (bought here in the UK) to be very good for the money...or the Rega, if you want to spend more money. I suggest you do a bit of research first to get a better idea of what's out there and opinions - I'm a little out of touch in this area these days, I'm afraid!

Good luck!...CJ


----------



## riverita

lo mejor para  friend


----------



## UntilThen

Back when I was using Rega RP8 with Apheta cartridge and Euforia. This turntable is astonishing in details and euphony.


----------



## UntilThen

Fast forward to today, tube amps have come and gone but the Rega RP8 still remains.


----------



## astrostar59

Felix amp for the LCD4s (with enough dynamics).

I am interested in the Felix amps, I heard them at Can-Jam 2017 in London but on the Utopia. Can any of these amps drive the  200 ohm LCD4s (2018 version). If not, what amp would you recommend (tube). Thanks


----------



## Rossliew

Julian, whilst the feliks amp is a great piece of gear, i doubt it'd be powerful enough for the lcd4.


----------



## astrostar59

Rossliew said:


> Julian, whilst the feliks amp is a great piece of gear, i doubt it'd be powerful enough for the lcd4.



Yes, I was wondering the same. I emailed Felix and they reckon it will work. But loud enough isn't all the story, dynamics and control, slew rates, speed are another. I am thinking I am better looking at SS only. Others have said as much on here as well to me. The GSX MK2 was interesting, but I have read some previous owners saying it can be a bit brittle / sharp even on the LCD4s. The Bryston is a possibility. But I am leaning towards the Violectric HPA V281, it seems to be my cup of tea. I am after quality of signal, not volume. Also the Violectric HPA V281 has very good settings to control the input level and output level (pre-fade / post fade). I have 10v line out on my DAC so it is very high (unusual).

Thanks for the thoughts Felix. BTW where you are on your system? I think I am in last stage mode since I got my Kassandra DAC, it is incredibly good, shockingly so. The HP amp is the last stone unturned now (I hope).


----------



## Rossliew

astrostar59 said:


> Yes, I was wondering the same. I emailed Felix and they reckon it will work. But loud enough isn't all the story, dynamics and control, slew rates, speed are another. I am thinking I am better looking at SS only. Others have said as much on here as well to me. The GSX MK2 was interesting, but I have read some previous owners saying it can be a bit brittle / sharp even on the LCD4s. The Bryston is a possibility. But I am leaning towards the Violectric HPA V281, it seems to be my cup of tea. I am after quality of signal, not volume. Also the Violectric HPA V281 has very good settings to control the input level and output level (pre-fade / post fade). I have 10v line out on my DAC so it is very high (unusual).
> 
> Thanks for the thoughts Felix. BTW where you are on your system? I think I am in last stage mode since I got my Kassandra DAC, it is incredibly good, shockingly so. The HP amp is the last stone unturned now (I hope).



I'm pretty much happy where I am now, basically mid-tier levels with both dynamics and estats. Playing a bit with vintage tape decks now which is in a way less of a hassle to play back as compared to vinyl. 

The Violectric has received good reviews but i haven't heard them first hand so can't comment. You may want to also look at the Pass Labs HPA-1?


----------



## Gym_Turtle

astrostar59 said:


> Yes, I was wondering the same. I emailed Felix and they reckon it will work. But loud enough isn't all the story, dynamics and control, slew rates, speed are another. I am thinking I am better looking at SS only. Others have said as much on here as well to me. The GSX MK2 was interesting, but I have read some previous owners saying it can be a bit brittle / sharp even on the LCD4s. The Bryston is a possibility. But I am leaning towards the Violectric HPA V281, it seems to be my cup of tea. I am after quality of signal, not volume. Also the Violectric HPA V281 has very good settings to control the input level and output level (pre-fade / post fade). I have 10v line out on my DAC so it is very high (unusual).
> 
> Thanks for the thoughts Felix. BTW where you are on your system? I think I am in last stage mode since I got my Kassandra DAC, it is incredibly good, shockingly so. The HP amp is the last stone unturned now (I hope).


Maybe you could try the Auris HA2 SE based on this review: http://earphiles.org/2017/05/auris-ha2-se-review/

Though, it would be suggested if you could find a sale on it.


----------



## astrostar59 (Jul 31, 2018)

Gym_Turtle said:


> Maybe you could try the Auris HA2 SE based on this review: http://earphiles.org/2017/05/auris-ha2-se-review/
> 
> Though, it would be suggested if you could find a sale on it.



Interesting amp review, but it then shot it with the price rant. I did think about that Mogwai or the Taboo MK4 which is prettier but maybe not as good SQ? In the end I thought it was too risky. Tube amps seem tone a bit hit and miss on impedance matches, some are grey on low impedance, others better or higher 600 ohms for example. No idea how it would sound on my HPs is what I am worried about. Also I have the LCD4s which are already warm and smooth. So I have gone SS instead now, bought the Violectric V281. I still can system tune as my DAC has a tube gain stage and with interconnect cables and USB cables. Plus micro tweaks in Roon DSP. If I had the Focal Utopia then deff go for a tube amp.

The Felix was also an option but the price recently went up, and even though they told me it would run the LCD4s I had PMs with some who have tired it and said it works but not optimal.

Also looked at the GSX MK2 but it has a churlish treble quality I am not so keen on, and is a bit pricey. I am hoping the V281 will kick my LCD4s butt, will report back.....


----------



## Rossliew

Maybe a Ragnarok or saga +vidar combo


----------



## Hyp0xia

So I've had the Euforia (2017) for about a year now. I just want to say I find it incredibly frustrating that the Euforia shuts down all the outputs on my Gumby whenever the Euforia is powered off. I have a HeadAmp Gilmore Lite Mk2 and a Beyerdynamic A20 connected at the same time (one of them with an XLR to RCA cable), as well as a Micca OriGain A250 connected to the line outs on the Beyerdynamic A20. I cannot use any of those other three amplifiers unless I either turn on the Euforia or unplug the RCAs from the Euforia. If I had to turn on my Beyerdynamic A20 just to use my other gear, it wouldn't be a big deal because it's solid-state and it produces no heat, but it's not a great idea to have tubes running all the time for a multitude of reasons. It shortens the lifespan of the tubes, it wastes electricity, it heats up the room, and, frankly, it's a fire hazard.


----------



## hypnos1 (Aug 2, 2018)

astrostar59 said:


> Interesting amp review, but it then shot it with the price rant. I did think about that Mogwai or the Taboo MK4 which is prettier but maybe not as good SQ? In the end I thought it was too risky. Tube amps seem tone a bit hit and miss on impedance matches, some are grey on low impedance, others better or higher 600 ohms for example. No idea how it would sound on my HPs is what I am worried about. Also I have the LCD4s which are already warm and smooth. So I have gone SS instead now, bought the Violectric V281. I still can system tune as my DAC has a tube gain stage and with interconnect cables and USB cables. Plus micro tweaks in Roon DSP. If I had the Focal Utopia then deff go for a tube amp.
> 
> The Felix was also an option but the price recently went up, and even though they told me it would run the LCD4s I had PMs with some who have tired it and said it works but not optimal.
> 
> Also looked at the GSX MK2 but it has a churlish treble quality I am not so keen on, and is a bit pricey. I am hoping the V281 will kick my LCD4s butt, will report back.....



Sorry for the late reply astrostar...but hope the V281 delivers all you would like (shame it's not a looker to my eyes alas!).

I suspect your 'warm and smooth' LCDs might well be more suited to SS than an OTL amp. However, if one was in the market for a top flight headphone AND speaker amp (with pre-amp function also) - and with flexible pockets lol! - then F-A's upcoming new 2A3 flagship amp (fully balanced) must surely be near the top of one's list.

It will have 6SN7s driving the 2A3s, and a specially commissioned output transformer...therefore should be able to drive low-impedance/planar headphones with ease. With 3 inputs and line out both balanced and SE; Neutrik 'Speakon' speaker connector, plus option for *STAX* electrostatic headphones output (!) this will, I'm sure, be quite an exciting venture from Feliks-Audio.

Although still in final development stage, they have released a photo of the rear panel (pretty well finalised), for which I post a link to the Euforia thread (post # 4738). Hopefully it should be close to finished prototype within the next month or so, when complete view (the early design concept for the front was striking - but understated - to say the least), and pricing/specs should be available  :  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-euforia-a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing.831743/page-316

On second thoughts, as this is in fact a thread for all F-A's tube amps, it's only fitting that I post said photo here lol!   :


----------



## UntilThen

astrostar59 said:


> Felix amp for the LCD4s (with enough dynamics).
> 
> I am interested in the Felix amps, I heard them at Can-Jam 2017 in London but on the Utopia. Can any of these amps drive the  200 ohm LCD4s (2018 version). If not, what amp would you recommend (tube). Thanks



Been through quite a few amps now and audition quite a lot more. Violectric v281 and Ragnarok will drive the LCD4 well. Glenn Super 9 OTL amp will drive the 200ohm LCD4 very well. However the ultimate will be the DNA Stratus which I'll be receiving in July 2019.


----------



## Althalus

UntilThen said:


> Been through quite a few amps now and audition quite a lot more. Violectric v281 and Ragnarok will drive the LCD4 well. Glenn Super 9 OTL amp will drive the 200ohm LCD4 very well. However the ultimate will be the DNA Stratus which I'll be receiving in July 2019.



That will be a very long year.... .


----------



## UntilThen

Althalus said:


> That will be a very long year.... .



It will pass quickly. On my way to airport now  for a holiday in Spore and Taiwan.


----------



## Dobrescu George

My in-depth review about the Euforia Flagship from Feliks-Audio is live now! If you love tube AMPs, this one is a really good one, being neutral, clean, and also really transparent  

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2020/05/director-of-sound-feliks-audio-euforia.html


----------



## M-83

UntilThen said:


> Another favourite pairing here - Sylvania 6sn7w and Bendix 6080wb slotted graphite tubes. Really good tubes and great combination. 6sn7w is so clear and sweet sounding and Bendix 6080wb has the weight of an ocean liner giant anchor. Together it's making my HD800 sound musical. Not a trace of sharpness here. It's smooth, lush and the soundstage is staggering. Bass is one of the best this side of the equator.
> 
> Btw when I refer to soundstage, I really mean headstage. It's inside your head or extends beyond your ears. Soundstage belongs to speakers and I am just about to take my setup to the lounge to audition with my speakers and subwoofer. Let's hear some real soundstage in my 5 x 8 metres lounge.


Hi there,

Any idea if the tubes you mentioned above would be suitable for a Feliks Echo (Mk1) ?

Thanks

Best regards


----------



## UntilThen

M-83 said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Any idea if the tubes you mentioned above would be suitable for a Feliks Echo (Mk1) ?
> 
> ...



I seem to wake up from a land far, far away....  This thread and my Feliks Audio Elise and Euforia was so loooong ago..... and I'm still in Head-Fi.  

I never had the Echo because why would I after I have the Elise and Euforia.

However to answer your question... NO. Feliks Echo use 2 6N6P power tubes and 2 6N1P driver tubes. The Sylvania 6sn7w and Bendix 6080wb that I talked about above are not suitable for your Echo...

I can't believe I say '.. Bendix 6080wb has the weight of an ocean liner giant anchor'. Well you get the idea.


----------



## UntilThen

UntilThen said:


> Been through quite a few amps now and audition quite a lot more. Violectric v281 and Ragnarok will drive the LCD4 well. Glenn Super 9 OTL amp will drive the 200ohm LCD4 very well. However the ultimate will be the DNA Stratus which I'll be receiving in July 2019.



I make this post in August 4th 2018. I didn't have the LCD4 then and didn't have the v281 (did have the v280 later) but have Ragnarok and later did have the Glenn Super 9 OTL amp. I was the first to popularise the GOTL. One or two owners before me but it wasn't well known then until I exploded the Glenn thread.

For some reason the DNA Stratus eluded me. Once I place an order but withdraw after waiting 8 months... because the Sansui(s) craze descended upon me with the force of a gale.

However I have the LCD4 now for a month -bought new and also a new 300b amp lovingly call Destiny. I have very linear and neutral system setups before but I didn't know that I also love creamy, chocolatey sounding setups with voluptuous bass and yet amazingly clear details and the mid range is to die for. Yes LCD4 and Destiny with Yggdrasil sends goose bumps all over me. I can hear Eva Cassidy's breath on my ears.

LCD4 with Destiny Woo. What a name.  In case you're wondering... will the Wa22 drive the LCD4... not in my opinion ... power is just barely adequate. Destiny on the other hand will rock and roll LCD4.


----------



## M-83

UntilThen said:


> I seem to wake up from a land far, far away....  This thread and my Feliks Audio Elise and Euforia was so loooong ago..... and I'm still in Head-Fi.
> 
> I never had the Echo because why would I after I have the Elise and Euforia.
> 
> ...


Yes it's amazing that comments made on threads that had appeared mothballed years ago can awaken again.

Similar things have happened on some other threads.

Okay thx for answering my question. I need to do more reading. I only received the echo today and it's my first OTL tube amp. I've had more experience with tube hybrids.

Haha we all use rather creative ways of describing audio.


----------



## UntilThen

@Rossliew  !!! Where you been !


----------



## Rossliew

Hey hey hey...what's up, Matt? Been around but not much head-fi stuff....anything interesting you have to share?


----------



## UntilThen

Definitely good to see you again Ross. Since Jan 2021 till now, I've been on a whirlwind tour of amps and a bit of dacs and some headphones.

Amps
Questyle CMA 12 - sold
Schiit Mjolnir 2 - sold
Violectric v280 - sold
SMSL SP200 - sold
Auralc Taurus Mk2 - sold
La Figaro 339i - sold
Elekit TU-8200 - fire in a tube, being repaired now
Destiny 300b amp - This one's an angel. In action with LCD4 all the time now. One month old.
Odyssey KT88/EL34, etc amp - being built now from Sweden. - My swan song from amp. I expect great things from it.

Dacs
Bifrost 2 - good dac 
NAD M51 - great dac still have original double box with a hardly use remote control.

Headphones
He1000se - just love this headphone
LCD4 - my latest craze. Just had it for a month.

My posts are in all their respective threads.  

All the ss amps that I sold are very good (SP200 so so, fiddly volume knob but a lot of power). Should have kept at least one of the ss amp but I have plans for a better one later. Not in a rush because I just prefer tube amps euphony. Maybe a GSX Mk2 ?


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## UntilThen

@MIKELAP !!! Never expected to see some of my old friends here. How are you?


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## MIKELAP

UntilThen said:


> @MIKELAP !!! Never expected to see some of my old friends here. How are you?


Very good ,I pop in from time to time to checkout stuff .Settled down quite a bit tube and ampwise . Kinda into gaming these days ,and Ebiking never a dull moment .Hopefully will start seeing the grandkids more till end of summer when fully vaccinated  Hope all is well for you to .Take care .


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## UntilThen

MIKELAP said:


> Very good ,I pop in from time to time to checkout stuff .Settled down quite a bit tube and ampwise . Kinda into gaming these days ,and Ebiking never a dull moment .Hopefully will start seeing the grandkids more till end of summer when fully vaccinated  Hope all is well for you to .Take care .



Very good ! Ebiking  I have too much to do and too little time.  Got to get back on my Specialized again. You too take care.


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## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> Definitely good to see you again Ross. Since Jan 2021 till now, I've been on a whirlwind tour of amps and a bit of dacs and some headphones.
> 
> Amps
> Questyle CMA 12 - sold
> ...


Wow, still at it with your tube amps. I would have thought the Glenn one would be the pinnacle of it. But we all know how it goes lol. Hey, what about your vintage amps? These would be the knees bees I would reckon, solid state but sounding rather tubey at times. 

I'm currently using my Hugo2 most of the time for convenience sakes with a recently acquired used HD800. But having an issue with the stock cable which is facing wear and tear. Haven't had the time to look out for a replacement cable. Unless u have one for sale 😉


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## UntilThen

Well Ross, Glenn OTL amp was great but you know how it is... there's always another mountain in Head-Fi. Sometimes I wonder what would have happen had my son not brought home the Aune T1 in 2015. I probably wouldn't have got into this hobby. I would have been a commercial orchid grower... maybe citrus fruits too. Or grapes?  

Sansui 907mr developed a channel imbalance and I sold it for cheap at $1500 together with the step down transformer. Then I bought another equally powerful Kenwood KA 3300D. 150w into 8ohms. Will bring the house down driving my floor standers.

Chance encounter with Elekit TU-8200 got me deeper into the hobby. Without this amp I wouldn't have got Destiny and Odyssey. A superb Japanese DIY tube kit amp. Assembled by an expert and I bought it cheap. This amp sound stonkingly good and it plunge me right back into a different type of NOS tube types. Then the desire to get a better custom amp based on KT88 / EL34 began and I search for a builder... eventually settle on Tomas of Ultrasonic Studios fame. Tomas was very keen to build this amp. Sowter transformers, Mundorf caps and Yamamoto tube sockets. Would even have gone for Yamamoto vintage mA meters but they stop producing it. While waiting for this amp (Odyssey), I stumble upon McChanson's amps and he's based in Sydney ! That started the process of trialling two 300b and one KT88 McChanson amps at home for 1 week. At the end of the trial, I know I have to get a custom 300b McChanson amp. Chose a gold front panel and call it Destiny because this amp was never ever on my head-fi roadmap - it's just destined to be mine.   

After Odyssey, it's probably the end. I'm wary of getting new amps.  There comes a time when enough is enough and I had more than enough. May not have everything but certainly a lot.

The next hobby will be relaxing and won't have to spend much and get a lot.... of fishes.


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## Rossliew

Hahahaha...fishing is good for the soul, it soothes and relaxes and you get to enjoy the fruits of your fishing labor too... i myself have gotten into fishkeeping as a small hobby, how therapeutic it has been although from 1 aquarium, it has now blossomed into several with a few out in the garage with no external oxygen or filtration support save for aquatic plants taking up the tasks instead.

On head-fi, i'm still looking out for 1 tube amp, missed them since i sold the Elise and the Glenn amps. But nothing too expensive (although a 300B based on has always been in the bucket list but not looking to be ticked off anytime soon...). Perhaps one of those Yamamoto puny powered amps although i doubt i may drive my Senns well.

I need to check out your McChanson amps though, sounds interesting - are they for speakers or headphones or both?


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## UntilThen

@Rossliew, @hypnos1, @connieflyer, @paramesh, @angpsi , @gibosi , @xtiva, @xtr4 can you let what's his name my friend in Malaysia -- something yousupkarmi ?.. know this ...

Odyssey is finished now.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/oblivion-ultrasonic-studios.902926/post-16481499


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## angpsi (Aug 3, 2021)

UntilThen said:


> @Rossliew, @hypnos1, @connieflyer, @paramesh, @angpsi , @gibosi , @xtiva, @xtr4 can you let what's his name my friend in Malaysia -- something yousupkarmi ?.. know this ...
> 
> Odyssey is finished now.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/oblivion-ultrasonic-studios.902926/post-16481499


Now you're just showing off! Congrats on your new amp, 3.1W SET power from carefully selected components will work wonders on your HEKSE I'm guessing...


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## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> Now you're just showing off! Congrats on your new amp, 3.1W SET power from carefully selected components will work wonders on your HEKSE I'm guessing...





It would work wonders on my Hekse and LCD4 for sure but I've an Abyss 1266 TC coming for a home demo. Also I would want to test it with my speakers for sure.


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## paramesh

UntilThen said:


> It would work wonders on my Hekse and LCD4 for sure but I've an Abyss 1266 TC coming for a home demo. Also I would want to test it with my speakers for sure





UntilThen said:


> @Rossliew, @hypnos1, @connieflyer, @paramesh, @angpsi , @gibosi , @xtiva, @xtr4 can you let what's his name my friend in Malaysia -- something yousupkarmi ?.. know this ...
> 
> Odyssey is finished now.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/oblivion-ultrasonic-studios.902926/post-16481499


congrats chief !!! your must be rubbing your hands in glee and anticipation


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## paramesh

UntilThen said:


> It would work wonders on my Hekse and LCD4 for sure but I've an Abyss 1266 TC coming for a home demo. Also I would want to test it with my speakers for sure.


@UntilThen  just got my abyss TC new and i tell u ...currently driving it off a CFA3 build .. its one hell of an experience !! ecstatic is the word.. i see you signing the cheque after a few tracks with your demo unit .. should be an interesting pairing with your new beast of an amp incoming .. should be great if you can time them togther


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## UntilThen

paramesh said:


> congrats chief !!! your must be rubbing your hands in glee and anticipation


 sup Paramesh. Long time no see.


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## UntilThen

paramesh said:


> @UntilThen  just got my abyss TC new and i tell u ...currently driving it off a CFA3 build .. its one hell of an experience !! ecstatic is the word.. i see you signing the cheque after a few tracks with your demo unit .. should be an interesting pairing with your new beast of an amp incoming .. should be great if you can time them togther



It's all happening. Got my new tube amp already. Congrats on your CFA3.... and Abyss off course.


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## UntilThen

Congrats on that Kevin Gilmore SS design amp.


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## UntilThen

I would go with a tube amp over a ss anyday.


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## ThanatosVI

UntilThen said:


> I would go with a tube amp over a ss anyday.


After experiencing tubes there is no going back


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## paramesh

ThanatosVI said:


> After experiencing tubes there is no going back


even i thought  so too ..SS looked like history to me.. after owning some exceptional OTls , SET and DHT HP amps ..from pete millet , amps and sound and GOTL 
 i was in for surprise with the CFA3 ,, The muscular drive and authority  with which it drives (hard to drive plannars) is a revelation ..more so susvara and abyss ..they thrive on power specifically the kevin gilmore design -CFA 3 is a design targeted around plannars 

for dynamics .. tubes are a no brainer , the nuanced presentation is hard to beat and only possible with tubes


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## paramesh

UntilThen said:


> sup Paramesh. Long time no see.


yes ..my big man .. stereo has taken over for a while


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## UntilThen

You should listen to Susvara and Abyss on Odyssey.


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## paramesh

UntilThen said:


> You should listen to Susvara and Abyss on Odyssey.





UntilThen said:


> You should listen to Susvara and Abyss on Odyssey.


i am sure it must be something !! , i will do .. when you done with it !  am in line


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## UntilThen

paramesh said:


> i am sure it must be something !! , i will do .. when you done with it !  am in line


Not ever selling Odyssey.  Not in line is a 2a3 / 45 amp.


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## ThanatosVI

UntilThen said:


> Not ever selling Odyssey.  Not in line is a 2a3 / 45 amp.


Yeah we talk about the last part in a few months again


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## UntilThen

ThanatosVI said:


> Yeah we talk about the last part in a few months again



That's very strange because I meant to say 'Now in line is a 2a3 / 45 amp'. Since I made a type error, I didn't want to correct it. 

Tomas tuning signature on Odyssey is exactly what I want. I've no doubt he will make a great 2a3 / 45 / 300b amp with old school design topology. I even have in mind what driver I want to use in it.

This won't happen for another year at least.


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## ThanatosVI

UntilThen said:


> That's very strange because I meant to say 'Now in line is a 2a3 / 45 amp'. Since I made a type error, I didn't want to correct it.
> 
> Tomas tuning signature on Odyssey is exactly what I want. I've no doubt he will make a great 2a3 / 45 / 300b amp with old school design topology. I even have in mind what driver I want to use in it.
> 
> This won't happen for another year at least.


Well a year is reasonable. 

By end of the year early next year I might add a 300B amp to my Octave.


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## Rcr

Dobrescu George said:


> My in-depth review about the Euforia Flagship from Feliks-Audio is live now! If you love tube AMPs, this one is a really good one, being neutral, clean, and also really transparent
> 
> https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2020/05/director-of-sound-feliks-audio-euforia.html


Great review


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## Dobrescu George

Rcr said:


> Great review


Thank you so much!


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## Rcr

Dobrescu George said:


> Thank you so much!


And superb pictures!


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## mordy

The possibilities are almost endless. Here is a rather unusual combination (at least the power tubes). Sounds nice.




The power tubes are 1.3A EL6 tubes. They use side contacts and are similar to the EL12 tubes which have a German Steel base. This is a hot running tube and the large heaters glow red hot at 100C.
They were made by Tungsram:



After looking carefully I found an almost invisible date code GT which is November 1946 - wonder if they are made by British Tungsram (as opposed to Hungarian Tungsram). 
The drivers are 1950's 6SN7GTB NEC tubes from Japan relabeled Channel Master.


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