# Ferrum OOR - headphone amplifier with a soul ?



## godmax (Aug 19, 2021)

After their first product the HYPSOS power supply, it seems like the HEM brand will also enter the headphone amplifier market soon:

*Ferrum OOR*













*Gain (dB): *balanced -4 dB, + 6dB, +16 dB / single ended -10 dB, 0 dB, 10 dB
*Operation:* Fully balanced, proprietary discrete power amp technology
*Inputs:* XLR, RCA, 2.5 mm DC connector centre positive, proprietary 4-pin DC connector
*Outputs:* Balanced 4-pin XLR, 6.35 mm jack
*Frequency Response:*  20 Hz – 100 kHz 0.1 dB
*Output Power Single Ended: *400 mW into 300 Ω, 2 W into 60 Ω
*Output Power Balanced: *1.600 mW into 300 Ω, 8 W into 60 Ω
*THD + Noise: TBA*
*Input Impedance:* 94 kΩ
*Output Impedance Single Ended:* 22 Ω on pre-amp
*Output Impedance Balanced:* 44 Ω on pre-amp
*Output headphones Impedance:* < 0.3 Ω
*Power Consumption: *Idle <15 W
*Power Adapter:* 100/240 V AC to 22-30 V DC
*Dimension (W x D x H) (In/cm):* 8.6 x 8.1 x 2.0 inch / 21.7 x 20.6 x 5 cm
*Weight (kg/lbs): *1.8 kg / 3.97 LBS
*Price:* 1.995 EUR/USD
ETA:
August 10th 2021​Design and value proposition looks very promising to me! - What do you think?


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## ThanatosVI (Jul 8, 2021)

Curious how that one will perform vs GSX-mini and Wells Milo.

Looks promising. Especially with the external power supply


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## normie610

Wow 8 W into 60 ohm….that’s a lot of juice


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## godmax (Jul 9, 2021)

ThanatosVI said:


> Curious how that one will perform vs GSX-mini and Wells Milo.


... at least for the GS-X mini comparison I might have a comparative impression incoming in some weeks, if everything works out 


normie610 said:


> Wow 8 W into 60 ohm….that’s a lot of juice


yea, seems like I would need to add a more power hungry headphone in my collection to really make proper use of such a beast


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## VerloK

The OOR or VOLOT for my SUSVARA? 🤔


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## Ultrainferno

Today we review the OOR on Headfonia. A lovely amp and with the Hypsos PSU it's really impressive

https://www.headfonia.com/ferrum-audio-oor-review/


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## greyforest

very curious about the amp combo

wish to hear more details


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## paradoxper

Where are internal shots of this amplifier. Seems like a good competitor to the VOLOT.


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## greyforest

paradoxper said:


> Where are internal shots of this amplifier. Seems like a good competitor to the VOLOT.


https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/ferrum-oor/4/


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## paradoxper

greyforest said:


> https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/ferrum-oor/4/


Thank you. This will definitely be competitive with VOLOT and Niimbus and will surpass the AMP-13R. Very nice.


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## Pashmeister

https://www.hifistatement.net/tests/item/3140-ferrum-oor?start=0

Article is in German but translated really well with Google Translate. I am considering the Hypsos + Oor combo as we have a local dealer that can bring the product over.


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## alekc

Pashmeister said:


> https://www.hifistatement.net/tests/item/3140-ferrum-oor?start=0
> 
> Article is in German but translated really well with Google Translate. I am considering the Hypsos + Oor combo as we have a local dealer that can bring the product over.


Considering all the competitors I think it is well overpriced. The manufacturer has the know how based on Mytek headphone amp section which is really good and very clean but still this is different product using different technology.


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## Pashmeister

alekc said:


> Considering all the competitors I think it is well overpriced. The manufacturer has the know how based on Mytek headphone amp section which is really good and very clean but still this is different product using different technology.


If it competes with Bakoon 13r or the new Enleum in Susvara performance then it’s a good price. If it is on par in performance with the Volot, the better form factor is more attractive.


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## greyforest

i think it is essential to get the ferrum power unit with oor
hpysos is somewhat a smart unit with full feedback design with oor there gonna be an technological edge over those conventional amp
 its been too long for those 90s analog technology to get any breakthrough
i hope oor+hpysos is the one


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## FooFighter

currently also thinking about getting that combo for driving Susvara...
Will decide in the next days...


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## alekc

I am trying to make an appointment to test it. May happen within next few weeks if everything goes well. I will share my findings. I am really curious how it compares to Mytek Dac+/Bridge headphone amp and few dedicated headphone amps.


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## FooFighter

order placed for both Oor and Hypsos, should arrive in the next days.
What I also find interesting is some hidden information on Facebook talking about a new product being launched in November - my guess: a DAC or even more
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=4912042085488842&set=a.200362676656830


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## sc2806

greyforest said:


> i think it is essential to get the ferrum power unit with oor
> hpysos is somewhat a smart unit with full feedback design with oor there gonna be an technological edge over those conventional amp
> its been too long for those 90s analog technology to get any breakthrough
> i hope oor+hpysos is the one


It is exactly "The One" we've been waiting for! Ferrum has it on the money, this amp gives music Soul. It brings it alive in my living room and headphones. Please have a listen when you have a chance. I ordered mine with my second Hypsos with no regrets 😆😆😆


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## Gavin C4 (Sep 23, 2021)

Looks really nice with the glowing logo. Sounds good out of the box. Let me run it for a while before in depth listening.


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## MasterZen

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts, on it, particularly paired with your 1266TC!

That stack looks nice and minimal , very cool imo


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## greyforest

Gavin C4 said:


> Looks really nice with the glowing logo. Sounds good out of the box. Let me run it for a while before in depth listening.


can you do comparison with other amp？thx


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## Gavin C4

greyforest said:


> can you do comparison with other amp？thx



I will let it run for about 100 hrs before comparing. I currently have the topping A90 Luxman P750u and thx 789. `Let me listen to it extensively before actually comparing.


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## MatW

This looks interesting as a potential upgrade of the Topping A90. I hope they release a top quality DAC as well, as the D90 is a little wider than the Ferrum...   

The lack of a 4.4 mm port is a shame, compared to the A90, but I suppose this can be resolved with an adapter. I hope the amp is as silent with IEMs as the A90 is.

Looking forward to impressions!


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## FooFighter

MatW said:


> This looks interesting as a potential upgrade of the Topping A90. I hope they release a top quality DAC as well, as the D90 is a little wider than the Ferrum...
> 
> The lack of a 4.4 mm port is a shame, compared to the A90, but I suppose this can be resolved with an adapter. I hope the amp is as silent with IEMs as the A90 is.
> 
> Looking forward to impressions!


As I read between the lines on Facebook some new Ferrum product is released in November...
As soon as I have the combo, I will try Trailli out of Oor.
I yet got a nice XLR-to-4,4mm adapter for my previous Flux...


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## MatW

FooFighter said:


> As I read between the lines on Facebook some new Ferrum product is released in November...


Yes, a DAC would be great...


FooFighter said:


> As soon as I have the combo, I will try Trailli out of Oor.


Cool, looking forward to your impressions!


FooFighter said:


> I yet got a nice XLR-to-4,4mm adapter for my previous Flux...


Can you please share a link?


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## FooFighter

MatW said:


> Can you please share a link?


https://a.aliexpress.com/_mMWmu7d


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## MatW

FooFighter said:


> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mMWmu7d


Thanks, ordered.


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## Gavin C4 (Sep 23, 2021)

MatW said:


> This looks interesting as a potential upgrade of the Topping A90. I hope they release a top quality DAC as well, as the D90 is a little wider than the Ferrum...
> 
> The lack of a 4.4 mm port is a shame, compared to the A90, but I suppose this can be resolved with an adapter. I hope the amp is as silent with IEMs as the A90 is.
> 
> Looking forward to impressions!



I also really hope that the OOR have an 4.4 jack because it is the trend now. Even the HD800s comes with a 4.4 cable. Well , a xlr to 4.4 adapter will finish the job. 

I can confirm that the OOR is silent with IEMs.

It has zero channel imbalance at extreme low volumes. In this case the OOR it is better than the A90 for sensitive iem.


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## tholt

MasterZen said:


> Looking forward to hearing your thoughts, on it, particularly paired with your 1266TC!


Ditto


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## greyforest

Gavin C4 said:


> I will let it run for about 100 hrs before comparing. I currently have the topping A90 Luxman P750u and thx 789. `Let me listen to it extensively before actually comparing.


i am deciding between p750u and oor 
will be very interested to hear your opinion


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## FooFighter (Sep 24, 2021)

just some pictures of my current setup consisting of Shanling M30 connected via Red Dawn XLR to Ferrum OOR powered by Ferrum HYPSOS.

2nd picture showing the possibility to change the voltage input into OOR.
Haven't really recognised big differences between the voltage levels though so far.


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## aaf evo

FooFighter said:


> just some pictures of my current setup consisting of Shanling M30 connected via Red Dawn XLR to Ferrum OOR powered by Ferrum HYPSOS.
> 
> 2nd picture showing the possibility to change the voltage input into OOR.
> Haven't really recognised big differences between the voltage levels though so far.



So how is it versus out of M30 alone?


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## FooFighter (Sep 24, 2021)

Well actually M30 is still doing quite well, especially in its Transistor amp mode with Susvara and does have a slightly wider stage and smoother presentation.
Ferrum setup is tighter, more controlled, better layered with more details and slightly less bright, also a little more punchy.
Ferrum OOR sounds more organic, guitar strings sound more realistic.
It also seems to have a blacker background and a tad faster but really nice decay.
I am often shocked how much different the mixes are sounding with Susvara and I always tend to switch the headphones back and forth to realise it's the mix and not the bad source player.
One song sounds like neutral and a tad boring and the next one full-bodied and punchy.
Vocals are almost always great.
I have switched today to Dekoni Elite Denefrated Sheepskin pads which is bringing in a tad more detail and rendering than with the stock pads.
Thank god I am enjoying quite some of my beloved Rock and Indie tracks like e.g. Arctic Monkeys, Breaking Benjamin.
I was afraid I needed to go for PHI TC for such genres but so far feeling fine with Susvara still.
Still in Susvara new toy mode.
Need to go asleep now as I need to get up early tomorrow.
Will report again how the setups sounds with Traillii and Denon-AH-D9200 during the weekend


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## greyforest

FooFighter said:


> Well actually M30 is still doing quite well, especially in its Transistor amp mode with Susvara and does have a slightly wider stage and smoother presentation.
> Ferrum setup is tighter, more controlled, better layered with more details and slightly less bright, also a little more punchy.
> Ferrum OOR sounds more organic, guitar strings sound more realistic.
> It also seems to have a blacker background and a tad faster but really nice decay.
> ...


so the difference between m30 and oor is not that  large？？

sus sounds better on speaker amp with dedicated converter
it require huge current


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## FooFighter

greyforest said:


> so the difference between m30 and oor is not that  large？？
> 
> sus sounds better on speaker amp with dedicated converter
> it require huge current


Difference is there as I described but M30 is no slouch and using high quality components inside - so there might be still small issues with amplification but the difference isn't as huge as one might wish for investing in an additional amp.
On the other hand I had Roksan K3 power amplifier for a short time connected through speaker TAPs and while you had the larger stage feeling it's tonality didn't match so well with M30.
I will continue listening a bit over the weekend and then decide if I sent Ferrums back and either wait for the M30 power amp module to be published next year or look for Burson Timekeeper or benchmark AHB2


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## FooFighter

There's one strange thing coming to my mind which I am curious about: 
I tried switching the OOR amp volume mode yesterday by turning that knob on the backside, turned the volume dial all down to 0 on my Shanling M30 preamp   and slowly raised the volume there.
I now expected to come to the same super high volume as using the standard way (regulating volume on OOR) but:
- it seemed the volume doesn't get higher than usually on M30 when listening to Susvara there directly 
- the OOR Gain switches had no function, volume was always the same no matter how I changed the OOR gain 

Anyone else experiencing this behavior?


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## greyforest

FooFighter said:


> Difference is there as I described but M30 is no slouch and using high quality components inside - so there might be still small issues with amplification but the difference isn't as huge as one might wish for investing in an additional amp.
> On the other hand I had Roksan K3 power amplifier for a short time connected through speaker TAPs and while you had the larger stage feeling it's tonality didn't match so well with M30.
> I will continue listening a bit over the weekend and then decide if I sent Ferrums back and either wait for the M30 power amp module to be published next year or look for Burson Timekeeper or benchmark AHB2


what about d9200？


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## FooFighter (Sep 25, 2021)

I have a very interesting post to share 
I will now really need to make some thoughts about my chain.
With the "lower tier" TOTL DAP M8 Ferrum and Susvara are sounding phenomenal....

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/shanling-m8-android-portable-player.939962/post-16580761

Denon AH-D9200 is low impedance and really doesn't need extra amplification - I tested it briefly with my default setup M30 - XLR out - Ferrum OOR  AND it sounded very good but I couldn't say better than out of M30 directly.

I think it's really also a specific Susvara use case combined with personal preference like in my case smooth musical signature with body.

M8 as source seems to provide that without obvious downsides (ignoring double amping as it doesn't have true LO but that might be even the secret sauce due to the M8 amp implementation) and I feel like I am getting the very best out of it with Ferrum and Susvara - still crazy if you consider the price of M8 vs M30 and the price tier of most Susvara owner's desktop DACs...


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## MatW

Really tempted to get this stack. But it is a fairly large jump from the A90, in terms of investment. I wondering what I should think of in the 1.5-2k range. Anyone? And keen to hear more impressions on the Ferrum, to decide if it's worth it.


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## FooFighter

I am also just starting to collect experiences with this Ferrum setup but the last 2 days were really showing that the source feeding into the OOR is really so important.

I was writing before that the stage width on OOR  isn't as wide as I was hearing on the M30 headphone out.
Yes, but after now listening through the LO of M30's smaller brother M8, the stage width is wide again.
I have the feeling that OOR is reproducing the properties of the source, keeping the source signature (i.e. not adding bass or mids etc.) but leveraging these in terms of effortlessness of presentation, headroom, tightness of the notes.
My suspicion is that the XLR out of M30 isn't performing in the same way as it's headphone out.
Therefore I was enjoying even Susvaras at the top boarder of M30's amplification out of the headphone outputs but not as much when running into Flux-FA-10 or Ferrum OOR.
Now trying different sources it's becoming obvious that not OOR is the bottleneck.
I know M8s sound signature very well and it is reproduced 1:1 on the OOR but just with the benefits mentioned above.

So for people questioning if they should buy it: it is a neutral amp but with top quality amplification, tight and crisp, nice decay, can go slow but also fast.
If you are looking for a specific sound signature (as I did for pairing with Susvaras), you definitely need to regulate that on your source!

E.g. smoothness and musicality - go for a tube DAC/preamp or even a TOTL DAP like M8 and potentially DX300 Max (if someone will confirm this in the future).


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## MatW

FooFighter said:


> I am also just starting to collect experiences with this Ferrum setup but the last 2 days were really showing that the source feeding into the OOR is really so important.
> 
> I was writing before that the stage width on OOR  isn't as wide as I was hearing on the M30 headphone out.
> Yes, but after now listening through the LO of M30's smaller brother M8, the stage width is wide again.
> ...


Chord DACs are very refined and smooth. I'm thinking of getting a Qutest and the Ferrum to upgrade my Topping stack.


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## FooFighter

MatW said:


> Chord DACs are very refined and smooth. I'm thinking of getting a Qutest and the Ferrum to upgrade my Topping stack.


if you find a vendor with return policy that's always your best bet so you can try it out yourself without stress and reselling hassle


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## MatW

FooFighter said:


> if you find a vendor with return policy that's always your best bet so you can try it out yourself without stress and reselling hassle


I'm not worried about the Qutest. I have a Dave and owned the TT2, so I know what to expect from Chord DACs, they are fantastic imo. I have the D90, which is a very good DAC (might actually be a good way for you to try a solid desktop DAC without breaking the bank), but the Qutest is likely to be a step up, supposedly a little more refined in terms of sound signature. The next step up is considerably more expensive again, probably a Holo Spring 3. Any concerns I have are mainly around the Ferrum, since it's so new. And I'm still looking into slightly less expensive options.


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## FooFighter

MatW said:


> I'm not worried about the Qutest. I have a Dave and owned the TT2, so I know what to expect from Chord DACs, they are fantastic imo. I have the D90, which is a very good DAC (might actually be a good way for you to try a solid desktop DAC without breaking the bank), but the Qutest is likely to be a step up, supposedly a little more refined in terms of sound signature. The next step up is considerably more expensive again, probably a Holo Spring 3. Any concerns I have are mainly around the Ferrum, since it's so new. And I'm still looking into slightly less expensive options.


the only 2 ones I was considering besides Ferrum in the 3k cost range were Benchmark AHB2 due to the hype in Susvara-Forum or Burson Grand Tourer


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## greyforest

MatW said:


> I'm not worried about the Qutest. I have a Dave and owned the TT2, so I know what to expect from Chord DACs, they are fantastic imo. I have the D90, which is a very good DAC (might actually be a good way for you to try a solid desktop DAC without breaking the bank), but the Qutest is likely to be a step up, supposedly a little more refined in terms of sound signature. The next step up is considerably more expensive again, probably a Holo Spring 3. Any concerns I have are mainly around the Ferrum, since it's so new. And I'm still looking into slightly less expensive options.


if you are interested in holo dac and chord dac, i recommend you to try hibiki dac. there are hibiki sds and hibiki bds2, sds is delta sigma like Dave and with only 30% of the price it out performed Dave with significantly more information restored from the source. Bds2 is r2r and it is only half  the cost compare to holo may but again out performed it. I used to own Dave and tt2)


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## alekc

FooFighter said:


> the only 2 ones I was considering besides Ferrum in the 3k cost range were Benchmark AHB2 due to the hype in Susvara-Forum or Burson Grand Tourer


The main problem with Burson Soloist 3X GT is internal fan. Considering that you are usually quite close to the headphone amp and using open headphones means less isolation from external noise I would never consider any audio equipment "hifi" or "audiophile" that can produce noise due to fan. Otherwise Burson looks great on the paper. I also love it that it can be placed vertically. It would perfectly suit and fit one of my setups currently, but the internal fan makes it no go for me.


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## FooFighter

Thx for the hint with the fan, haven't considered that so far.
Guess that issue is present in the complete Burson top line including Timekeeper 3i, right?
What I find tempting though are tweaking options like exchangeable OP amp modules...


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## Pashmeister

alekc said:


> The main problem with Burson Soloist 3X GT is internal fan. Considering that you are usually quite close to the headphone amp and using open headphones means less isolation from external noise I would never consider any audio equipment "hifi" or "audiophile" that can produce noise due to fan. Otherwise Burson looks great on the paper. I also love it that it can be placed vertically. It would perfectly suit and fit one of my setups currently, but the internal fan makes it no go for me.


The noctua fan is typically more quiet than your own room’s ambient noise though so I am pretty sure fan noise will be a non issue. Maybe there could be a diff issue which other amps wont experience e.g. if a fan stops working, but not noise. My Mac mini’s fan is also inaudible. it gives me comfort, but hands on experience will confirm.


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## FooFighter

Pashmeister said:


> The noctua fan is typically more quiet than your own room’s ambient noise though so I am pretty sure fan noise will be a non issue. Maybe there could be a diff issue which other amps wont experience e.g. if a fan stops working, but not noise. My Mac mini’s fan is also inaudible. it gives me comfort, but hands on experience will confirm.


shhh, you won't make decisions easier


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## MatW (Sep 26, 2021)

FooFighter said:


> shhh, you won't make decisions easier


So what are you leaning towards? Keeping it or not..? How is it with the Traillii?


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## FooFighter (Sep 26, 2021)

MatW said:


> So what are you leaning towards? Keeping it or not..? How is it with the Traillii?


Trailli sounds quite nice with my strange pairing M8 + Ferrum, it has better slam than Susvara.
Compared to driving Trailli out of M8 directly I see slight advantages in terms of tightness, control
And regarding my decision to keep Ferrum stack or not: I still have no idea.

It's the best amplifier I have had for Susvara so far but I also haven't had many: M30, Flux-FA-10 and now Ferrum OOR - all the ones I had before are too long ago and don't count as I have never tried them with my current headphones.

If I gave it back now I would get a complete refund but will need to listen to Susvara out of M30 at the boarder of it'S amplification until I get the next amp.
What is also giving me thoughts is my source as it seems to be clearly the more important driving factor regarding the described experiences (varying lack of body, unforgivingness and stage width)
I'd love to keep everything in order and have a stack with perfect synergy.
The next Ferrum product coming out in November will be the perfect synergy for the Ferrum stack itself for sure but of course I have no clue about its implementation and how it will behave with headphones according to my taste.


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## Pashmeister

FooFighter said:


> Trailli sounds quite nice with my strange pairing M8 + Ferrum, it has better slam than Susvara.
> Compared to driving Trailli out of M8 directly I see slight advantages in terms of tightness, control
> And regarding my decision to keep Ferrum stack or not: I still have no idea.
> 
> ...


I would imagine the Ferrum Oor to definitely perform higher than M30 and FA-10; I hope you get a chance to hear/audition other amps that are considered to be ones better able to drive the Susvaras with little to no concession, e.g. against speaker amps/more powerful (or with better current delivery) headphone amps (e.g. Volot, Wa33, Cayin HA300, Benchmark AHB2, etc) as they're likely the better comparison than the FA-10.


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## FooFighter

Pashmeister said:


> I would imagine the Ferrum Oor to definitely perform higher than M30 and FA-10; I hope you get a chance to hear/audition other amps that are considered to be ones better able to drive the Susvaras with little to no concession, e.g. against speaker amps/more powerful (or with better current delivery) headphone amps (e.g. Volot, Wa33, Cayin HA300, Benchmark AHB2, etc) as they're likely the better comparison than the FA-10.


I understand what you are saying.
My issue is more that I am currently questioning my source and cannot judge the amplification unbiased as long as I see that it is changing the sound more significantly than amp rolling.
So pls take my comments here with the grain of salt based on the different scenarios and sources.

At the end there might be several ways to come to a desired signature keeping the headphone fixed in the equation 
- rolling the source 
- rolling the amp 
- applying EQ and DSP


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## alekc

Pashmeister said:


> The noctua fan is typically more quiet than your own room’s ambient noise though so I am pretty sure fan noise will be a non issue. Maybe there could be a diff issue which other amps wont experience e.g. if a fan stops working, but not noise. My Mac mini’s fan is also inaudible. it gives me comfort, but hands on experience will confirm.


I'm yet to hear a fan that after 2-3 years of constant usage is noiseless... and I would like to buy equipment that lasts. This is also another mechanical moving part prone to failure adding to complexity of device. Since I dislike Apple policies I have no experience with their equipment but all other manufactures have similar issues at some point. However I don't have any experience with Burson so maybe you are right.


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## alekc (Sep 26, 2021)

FooFighter said:


> Thx for the hint with the fan, haven't considered that so far.
> Guess that issue is present in the complete Burson top line including Timekeeper 3i, right?
> What I find tempting though are tweaking options like exchangeable OP amp modules...


You are welcome  I'm not sure about Timekeeper 3i @FooFighter - I couldn't find such info on Burson web page. Guess you can ask them directly.


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## yolosauce

Pashmeister said:


> The noctua fan is typically more quiet than your own room’s ambient noise though so I am pretty sure fan noise will be a non issue. Maybe there could be a diff issue which other amps wont experience e.g. if a fan stops working, but not noise. My Mac mini’s fan is also inaudible. it gives me comfort, but hands on experience will confirm.


My pc has 6 fans running while I listen to music and they're barely audible. So I bet the fan in the GT will be a non-issue like you said. My only concern regarding the fan is if it stops working will the GT overheat or not turn on at all.


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## FooFighter

yolosauce said:


> My pc has 6 fans running while I listen to music and they're barely audible. So I bet the fan in the GT will be a non-issue like you said. My only concern regarding the fan is if it stops working will the GT overheat or not turn on at all.


actually wrong thread and I am not a Burson expert but wasn't there a cooling stand offered for the top tier Bursons?
Are we now talking about the fan in the amp itself or about the cooling stand?


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## yolosauce

FooFighter said:


> actually wrong thread and I am not a Burson expert but wasn't there a cooling stand offered for the top tier Bursons?
> Are we now talking about the fan in the amp itself or about the cooling stand?


I believe (and I'm probably wrong) that the cooling stand was only used to set the amp vertically. The burson would run cooler in a vertical position and warmer when it was placed horizontally. But the stand doesn't provide additional cooling by itself.


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## FooFighter

yolosauce said:


> I believe (and I'm probably wrong) that the cooling stand was only used to set the amp vertically. The burson would run cooler in a vertical position and warmer when it was placed horizontally. But the stand doesn't provide additional cooling by itself.


omg, really?
so we could actually build a stand ourselves if that was true


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## normie610

FooFighter said:


> applying EQ and DSP


Perhaps you could try this as the next step, I now prefer Susvara with EQ.


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## HiFiHawaii808

At least 5 people told me to go hear the Ferrum Oor amp this weekend.  I finally did today and I was blown away.  It is so transparent and clean.    I got to hear it paired with the Utopia which I liked because I own it and know the sound.   This amp fixed everything I have a problem with in the Utopia.   Really increases significantly the sound stage and opens up the treble while retaining its fantastic punch and slam.   If I didn't buy a tube amp this weekend, I would have bought it.  I will buy it soon though.   It's a great buy at $2000.


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## Pashmeister

FooFighter said:


> omg, really?
> so we could actually build a stand ourselves if that was true


You don’t have to, you can also just get an adjustable vertical laptop stand in aluminum so long as it can be adjusted enough to fit.


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## Pashmeister

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> At least 5 people told me to go hear the Ferrum Oor amp this weekend.  I finally did today and I was blown away.  It is so transparent and clean.    I got to hear it paired with the Utopia which I liked because I own it and know the sound.   This amp fixed everything I have a problem with in the Utopia.   Really increases significantly the sound stage and opens up the treble while retaining its fantastic punch and slam.   If I didn't buy a tube amp this weekend, I would have bought it.  I will buy it soon though.   It's a great buy at $2000.


Nice, it’s great that this amp is also very good with something as sensitive as the Utopia. More and more it seems like it’s somehow like a less expensive headamp version of the AHB2 based on descriptions.


----------



## SeniorBrother

Pashmeister said:


> Nice, it’s great that this amp is also very good with something as sensitive as the Utopia. More and more it seems like it’s somehow like a less expensive headamp version of the AHB2 based on descriptions.



A friend tested it out. 
"For the record, I happened to bring my Andromeda Golds, which are stupidly sensitive and only 7 ohms.  There was audible (but quiet) noise floor with the pot "off," which isn't anything unusual for those.  A minor turn of the dial and I got nothing but music.

With MEST MkII, though--dead silence."


----------



## MatW

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> At least 5 people told me to go hear the Ferrum Oor amp this weekend.  I finally did today and I was blown away.  It is so transparent and clean.    I got to hear it paired with the Utopia which I liked because I own it and know the sound.   This amp fixed everything I have a problem with in the Utopia.   Really increases significantly the sound stage and opens up the treble while retaining its fantastic punch and slam.   If I didn't buy a tube amp this weekend, I would have bought it.  I will buy it soon though.   It's a great buy at $2000.


Thanks for sharing. Did you hear it with the hypsos or without?


----------



## FooFighter

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> At least 5 people told me to go hear the Ferrum Oor amp this weekend.  I finally did today and I was blown away.  It is so transparent and clean.    I got to hear it paired with the Utopia which I liked because I own it and know the sound.   This amp fixed everything I have a problem with in the Utopia.   Really increases significantly the sound stage and opens up the treble while retaining its fantastic punch and slam.   If I didn't buy a tube amp this weekend, I would have bought it.  I will buy it soon though.   It's a great buy at $2000.


CanJam, right?
Loved to hear your impressions with Susvara but guess you didn't listen that combo right?


----------



## FooFighter (Sep 27, 2021)

normie610 said:


> Perhaps you could try this as the next step, I now prefer Susvara with EQ.


Seems to me that my source rolling is nothing else than hardware-equing.
I have avoided software equing by any means so far but guess I will look into it now with Tonebooster-plugin within UAPP just to cover this szenario too.
Love to hear your settings but I guess that's anyway quite individual and belongs into the Susvara thread. 
Regarding Oor I want to repeat that it's very accurately reproducing the source - which is nice once you got a signature to your liking with the according can.


----------



## MatW

normie610 said:


> Perhaps you could try this as the next step, I now prefer Susvara with EQ.


Which profile do you use? I tried several, there was one I liked, but I haven't used EQ with the Susvara recently. I'll give it another go soon.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

FooFighter said:


> CanJam, right?
> Loved to hear your impressions with Susvara but guess you didn't listen that combo right?


I did not get a chance to hear it with susvara.   But it was mostly sus owners talking about that amp


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

MatW said:


> Thanks for sharing. Did you hear it with the hypsos or without?


With.  I am definitely buying both at some point.


----------



## MatW

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> With.  I am definitely buying both at some point.


Alright thx, checking since you mentioned 2k as the price. With the Hypsos it's 3k, which is not a small amount... But I am close to pulling the trigger.


----------



## FooFighter (Sep 27, 2021)

MatW said:


> Alright thx, checking since you mentioned 2k as the price. With the Hypsos it's 3k, which is not a small amount... But I am close to pulling the trigger.


Do it and we will find the best Sus settings with all Ferrum-Sus-owners but if you have one source settings which you yet enjoy with Sus I am sure Oor won't disappoint you 👍


----------



## MatW

FooFighter said:


> Do it and we will find the best Sus settings with all Ferrum-Sus-owners but if you have one source settings which you yet enjoy with Sus I am sure Oor won't disappoint you 👍


I will probably continue to use the Susvara mostly in my setup 1. Setup 2 is in the living room, where I tend to use closed backs because I am usually not alone there. But it is nice to have the headroom available should I want to use the Susvara or other demanding headphones there as well.


----------



## FooFighter (Sep 27, 2021)

MatW said:


> I will probably continue to use the Susvara mostly in my setup 1. Setup 2 is in the living room, where I tend to use closed backs because I am usually not alone there. But it is nice to have the headroom available should I want to use the Susvara or other demanding headphones there as well.


Oor is at least more powerful than your current living room setup but power isn't everything too.
Though if you should buy it I'd like to know how it's playing with your living room chain.
Edit: Ahh, forget it, I mixed your setups, your setup 1 is more interesting 😉 but nevertheless if Feliks can work as preamp I am sure it could do a wonderful job for contributing the Susvara for more difficult, brighter, harsher mixes...


----------



## normie610

MatW said:


> Which profile do you use? I tried several, there was one I liked, but I haven't used EQ with the Susvara recently. I'll give it another go soon.


I use PEQ settings from Crinacle found in github. I did make a couple of adjustments to suit the sound to my system and taste. You can PM me for the exact values, I don’t want to derail the thread 😁


----------



## MatW

FooFighter said:


> Oor is at least more powerful than your current living room setup but power isn't everything too.
> Though if you should buy it I'd like to know how it's playing with your living room chain.
> Edit: Ahh, forget it, I mixed your setups, your setup 1 is more interesting 😉 but nevertheless if Feliks can work as preamp I am sure it could do a wonderful job for contributing the Susvara for more difficult, brighter, harsher mixes...


I am thinking of replacing the D90 in setup 2 with a Qutest.


----------



## FooFighter

MatW said:


> I am thinking of replacing the D90 in setup 2 with a Qutest.


nice, only the missing balanced outs would disturb me personally


----------



## MatW

FooFighter said:


> nice, only the missing balanced outs would disturb me personally


I don't know of a better option with balanced outs, in the 1-2k price range. Open to suggestions!


----------



## FooFighter

MatW said:


> I don't know of a better option with balanced outs, in the 1-2k price range. Open to suggestions!


that's an intersting question I might dive in myself now, potentially R2R DACs or ... waiting until November what Ferrum will reveal....


----------



## FooFighter

normie610 said:


> I use PEQ settings from Crinacle found in github. I did make a couple of adjustments to suit the sound to my system and taste. You can PM me for the exact values, I don’t want to derail the thread 😁


please join me in your pm


----------



## Gavin C4 (Sep 27, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> At least 5 people told me to go hear the Ferrum Oor amp this weekend.  I finally did today and I was blown away.  It is so transparent and clean.    I got to hear it paired with the Utopia which I liked because I own it and know the sound.   This amp fixed everything I have a problem with in the Utopia.   Really increases significantly the sound stage and opens up the treble while retaining its fantastic punch and slam.   If I didn't buy a tube amp this weekend, I would have bought it.  I will buy it soon though.   It's a great buy at $2000.



The Ferrum Hypsos and OOR combo is a must-listen for those who are at can jam! It is a really good amp. What makes this amp really shines is the spaciousness and depth that you get from the music. The OOR does this by a very neutral presentation in the music, with all the instruments are presented equally. Nothing will cover up each other, it will leave enough space between each instruments inside the stage. The bass is presented in a neutral manner and it contributes a lot to the depth of the stage. While it maintains how the bass actually sounds in the music and not adds any extra punch, you can actually see the bass coming from a distance in front of you. This amp is a very detailed SS amp. 

With all the above characteristics, the vocals in the music became the star of the day. Since all the instrument and bass is carefully placed in the wide and deep stage, the vocals are able to get your full attention. Don't get me wrong, the OOR does not do it like tube amps by adding some tube magic to the mids. Vocals on the OOR are very liquid and transparent. It is floating in the middle of the stage and this is especially true with you listen to the 1266tc.


----------



## Pashmeister

Gavin C4 said:


> The Ferrum Hypsos and OOR combo is a must-listen for those who are at can jam! It is a really good amp. What makes this amp really shines is the spaciousness and depth that you get from the music. The OOR does this by a very neutral presentation in the music, with all the instruments are presented equally. Nothing will cover up each other, it will leave enough space between each instruments inside the stage. The bass is presented in a neutral manner and it contributes a lot to the depth of the stage. While it maintains how the bass actually sounds in the music and not adds any extra punch, you can actually see the bass coming from a distance in front of you. This amp is a very detailed SS amp.


Hi what headphones did u use to listen to it?


----------



## tholt

Gavin C4 said:


> The Ferrum Hypsos and OOR combo is a must-listen for those who are at can jam! It is a really good amp. What makes this amp really shines is the spaciousness and depth that you get from the music. The OOR does this by a very neutral presentation in the music, with all the instruments are presented equally. Nothing will cover up each other, it will leave enough space between each instruments inside the stage. The bass is presented in a neutral manner and it contributes a lot to the depth of the stage. While it maintains how the bass actually sounds in the music and not adds any extra punch, you can actually see the bass coming from a distance in front of you. This amp is a very detailed SS amp.
> 
> With all the above characteristics, the vocals in the music became the star of the day. Since all the instrument and bass is carefully placed in the wide and deep stage, the vocals are able to get your full attention. Don't get me wrong, the OOR does not do it like tube amps by adding some tube magic to the mids. Vocals on the OOR are very liquid and transparent. It is floating in the middle of the stage and this is especially true with you listen to the 1266tc.


 Notice the TC in your signature. Very curious about the pairing.


----------



## Gavin C4

Pashmeister said:


> Hi what headphones did u use to listen to it?



Mostly Utopia and 1266tc.


----------



## MasterZen

How do you find the combo compared to the Luxman?


----------



## rmsanger

MasterZen said:


> How do you find the combo compared to the Luxman?



X2 I know this is an Oor thread but that Luxman in the picture keeps winking at me.


----------



## FooFighter (Sep 28, 2021)

rmsanger said:


> X2 I know this is an Oor thread but that Luxman in the picture keeps winking at me.


If you don't need to drive Susvaras than I think it's top notch as an amp alone 😉
Edit: just read it delivers 8 Watts at 16 Ohm, so should be enough, sorry


----------



## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> I use PEQ settings from Crinacle found in github. I did make a couple of adjustments to suit the sound to my system and taste. You can PM me for the exact values, I don’t want to derail the thread 😁


Are you thinking about picking up the OOR? I've debated comparing it with Aries against the CFA3. But I also don't want to bury myself in obligation with so many headphone demos arriving soon.

Better you than me or I than you?


----------



## Gavin C4 (Sep 28, 2021)

MasterZen said:


> How do you find the combo compared to the Luxman?





rmsanger said:


> X2 I know this is an Oor thread but that Luxman in the picture keeps winking at me.



Gear:
Amp: Luxman p750u vs Ferrum Hypsos OOT combo, powered with  Crystal cable Future dream powercord

DAC: dCS Rossini with Clock, powered with Crystal cable Future dream powercord

XLR Interconnect: Crystal cable Future dream XLR 1.5 m

The compression uses the same sets of cable when interchanging between the amps for fair comparison. Therefore cables should not be the bottleneck for those who concern.

Generally speaking I found the Luxman p750u added slightly more bass to the music. Bass is more pronounced on the Luxman. Sub bass have a slower decay. There are slightly more mid bass on the Luxman. The initial punch and slam with the OOR and Luxman is very similar. But the bass on the luxman will last a little bit longer.


Luxman p750u is an SS amp that has some tube amp properties. The vocals are slightly lusher, and the size is larger than the OOR. Generally the luxman is more euphoric sounding in the bass and vocals region.



OOR and 750u generally have similar amounts of detail. Initially you may find mico details easier to pick up on the OOR because OOR is more accurate and neutral across the entire spectrum. You may need to pay more attention on the Luxman to pick them up.


The OOR is better  in accuracy of instrument placement, size and positioning. It does not make the music sound "fun" by making certain instruments or bass larger or heavier. Everything is sized properly with adequate amount of space between them. While the stage of the luxman is more filled up with the instruments and vocals.


OOR let the vocals float in the center of the stage, with around a few rows of distance. Vocals are very natural and balanced, it has very fluid mids and upper mids. Vocals are dense and smooth in a very well executed Solid State manner. Not sounding cold or metalic or bright at all. Where is the soul ? The soul is in the music itself.

1 week honny moon with the Ferrum Hypsos OOR combo, I think the two amps are different enough for me to keep both at the moment because I may not upgrade to uber expensive tubes amps in near future.


----------



## MasterZen

Great comparison, many thanks!


----------



## FooFighter (Sep 28, 2021)

Just to add to this discussion:
All parts of the chain add to the final signature with e.g OOR being the last part in the row.
If you now add e.g a tube DAC/Preamp in front (potentially even the mentioned Luxman) can make the OOR more warm, lush, euphonic.
Am experiencing exactly that in my current setups like playing out of M8 or M30 which both have characteristics like the before mentioned Luxman - M30 having even real different hardware amp modes like Transistor, Bypass (AKM DAC attenuation) or Tube which all go as preamp signal into OOR depending on mood and music taste.


----------



## normie610

paradoxper said:


> Are you thinking about picking up the OOR? I've debated comparing it with Aries against the CFA3. But I also don't want to bury myself in obligation with so many headphone demos arriving soon.
> 
> Better you than me or I than you?


I did before I got CFA3 😁 

And it’s better you than me 😜


----------



## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> I did before I got CFA3 😁
> 
> And it’s better you than me 😜


Seeing how the CFA3 murders the AMP-13R, it quelled all curiosity, huh. 

I know the feeling!

It's always me. FML.


----------



## normie610

paradoxper said:


> Seeing how the CFA3 murders the AMP-13R, it quelled all curiosity, huh.
> 
> I know the feeling!
> 
> It's always me. FML.


Yep, you know how it feels! 😄


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

FooFighter said:


> that's an intersting question I might dive in myself now, potentially R2R DACs or ... waiting until November what Ferrum will reveal....


The guy running the Feerum Oor booth at Can Jam told me the mext product to be released would be a Dac Amp,   It would a standalone deaktop, not a seaparate dac.


----------



## FooFighter

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> The guy running the Feerum Oor booth at Can Jam told me the mext product to be released would be a Dac Amp,   It would a standalone deaktop, not a seaparate dac.


Thx, can you elaborate more what desktop means?
I d suppose it ll be a chassis like HYPSOS or OOR and can be integrated into the stack?


----------



## Gavin C4

FooFighter said:


> Just to add to this discussion:
> All parts of the chain add to the final signature with e.g OOR being the last part in the row.
> If you now add e.g a tube DAC/Preamp in front (potentially even the mentioned Luxman) can make the OOR more warm, lush, euphonic.
> Am experiencing exactly that in my current setups like playing out of M8 or M30 which both have characteristics like the before mentioned Luxman - M30 having even real different hardware amp modes like Transistor, Bypass (AKM DAC attenuation) or Tube which all go as preamp signal into OOR depending on mood and music taste.



Yup, I also though of adding a preamp between the DAC and OOR to utilize OOR ' s power to the most. The OOR allows us to bypass the volume nobe and only use it as an AMP is a really cool feature. Those who have a tube amp will have the opportunity to use it as a tube preamp and OOR as pure power ampifier. Just like a 2 channel system.


----------



## rmsanger

Gavin C4 said:


> Gear:
> Amp: Luxman p750u vs Ferrum Hypsos OOT combo, powered with  Crystal cable Future dream powercord
> 
> DAC: dCS Rossini with Clock, powered with Crystal cable Future dream powercord
> ...


Thank you for this!  Everything you described would lead me to believe The luxman is for me.


----------



## Conurtrol

Are the Oor and Hypsos available for purchase in the U.S. yet? Can't find them at familiar retailers.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

FooFighter said:


> Thx, can you elaborate more what desktop means?
> I d suppose it ll be a chassis like HYPSOS or OOR and can be integrated into the stack?


I got the impression that it would be like a Chord Hugo TT2 with both a DAC and an AMP in a single desktop box.    There was no talk about a separate DAC that could pair with the OOR.  He told me this because I asked what the best DAC pairing would be with the OOR.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Sep 28, 2021)

Conurtrol said:


> Are the Oor and Hypsos available for purchase in the U.S. yet? Can't find them at familiar retailers.


The guy demoing the Hypsos and Oor is the US distributor for these products.   He is going to be signing dealers.   For now, you can buy it directly from him.   I got home and I tried various combinations of what I own to see if I could replicate the sound I heard.  I can't.   I think I am going to buy it.   Not sure when though.

His name is Roy Feldstein.  His company is Vana Ltd.    www.vanaltd.com    located in Lake Grove New York.   

I might just go to Can Jam New York in February and buy it from him then.


----------



## Conurtrol

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> The guy demoing the Hypsos and Oor is the US distributor for these products.   He is going to be signing dealers.   For now, you can buy it directly from him.   I got home and I tried various combinations of what I own to see if I could replicate the sound I heard.  I can't.   I think I am going to buy it.   Not sure when though.
> 
> His name is Roy Feldstein.  His company is Vana Ltd.    www.vanaltd.com    located in Lake Grove New York.
> 
> I might just go to Can Jam New York in February and buy it from him then.


Thank you for the info.


----------



## FooFighter

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I got the impression that it would be like a Chord Hugo TT2 with both a DAC and an AMP in a single desktop box.    There was no talk about a separate DAC that could pair with the OOR.  He told me this because I asked what the best DAC pairing would be with the OOR.


Thx!
As we re just there.
What else did he suggest as DAC pairing but the forthcoming DAC/Amp?


----------



## greyforest

Gavin C4 said:


> The Ferrum Hypsos and OOR combo is a must-listen for those who are at can jam! It is a really good amp. What makes this amp really shines is the spaciousness and depth that you get from the music. The OOR does this by a very neutral presentation in the music, with all the instruments are presented equally. Nothing will cover up each other, it will leave enough space between each instruments inside the stage. The bass is presented in a neutral manner and it contributes a lot to the depth of the stage. While it maintains how the bass actually sounds in the music and not adds any extra punch, you can actually see the bass coming from a distance in front of you. This amp is a very detailed SS amp.
> 
> With all the above characteristics, the vocals in the music became the star of the day. Since all the instrument and bass is carefully placed in the wide and deep stage, the vocals are able to get your full attention. Don't get me wrong, the OOR does not do it like tube amps by adding some tube magic to the mids. Vocals on the OOR are very liquid and transparent. It is floating in the middle of the stage and this is especially true with you listen to the 1266tc.


there is still a price gap between oor+hp and p750u
p750u is more expensive afterall
which one you might keep if you have to sell one


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

FooFighter said:


> Thx!
> As we re just there.
> What else did he suggest as DAC pairing but the forthcoming DAC/Amp?


He did not seem to have a recommended choice.  I told him I owned a Hugo TT2 and he told me the cabling for it was easy.  Just 3 pin XLR.


----------



## FooFighter

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> He did not seem to have a recommended choice.  I told him I owned a Hugo TT2 and he told me the cabling for it was easy.  Just 3 pin XLR.


OK, thx 
Yep, all the usual RCA and XLR ports are  there. OOR can even work as a preamp


----------



## MatW

FooFighter said:


> OK, thx
> Yep, all the usual RCA and XLR ports are  there. OOR can even work as a preamp


Did you change out the power cable? That is not the stock cable I guess?


----------



## alekc

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I got the impression that it would be like a Chord Hugo TT2 with both a DAC and an AMP in a single desktop box.    There was no talk about a separate DAC that could pair with the OOR.  He told me this because I asked what the best DAC pairing would be with the OOR.


Rather more similar to Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ or Manhattan II than Hugo TT2 since this is what they have been manufacturing for years. I bet it would be based on ESS chip just like Mytek products are. The one option is to go with higher model of ESS than in Brooklyn or just add more chips per channel.


----------



## FooFighter (Sep 29, 2021)

MatW said:


> Did you change out the power cable? That is not the stock cable I guess?


Correct, that's a bigger audiophile one 😃
Actually I will switch it to the forthcoming DAC as I don't suppose it's needed for the Hypsos PSU


----------



## FooFighter

alekc said:


> Rather more similar to Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ or Manhattan II than Hugo TT2 since this is what they have been manufacturing for years. I bet it would be based on ESS chip just like Mytek products are. The one option is to go with higher model of ESS than in Brooklyn or just add more chips per channel.


Have hoped for R2R but most likely you are right...


----------



## alekc

FooFighter said:


> Have hoped for R2R but most likely you are right...


R2R would be very interesting indeed, on the other hand I think we are during R2R hype wave that may go away sooner or later. In fact I do not care that much what is inside as long as it sounds awesome. Still it would be strange for a manufacturer not to exploit current know-how to build a new product. Anyway I am awaiting for Oor amp demo. Hope it will be soon.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Sep 29, 2021)

greyforest said:


> there is still a price gap between oor+hp and p750u
> p750u is more expensive afterall
> which one you might keep if you have to sell one



Thats a really hard question to answer with aboulute certainty. I can live with two headphones, Utopia and 1266tc together. I think I can certainly have Luxman and Ferrum together too.  They suits different situations. I dont really agree the more expensive is always better, and vice versa.


----------



## greyforest

Gavin C4 said:


> Thats a really hard question to answer with aboulute certainty. I can live with two headphones, Utopia and 1266tc together. I think I can certainly have Luxman and Ferrum together too.  They suits different situations. I dont really agree the more expensive is always better, and vice versa.


i currently own adx5000 deciding between 750 and orr
i really like transparent sound and deep frontal depth and good imaging 
sounds like oor+h is the one for me


----------



## Gavin C4 (Sep 30, 2021)

alekc said:


> R2R would be very interesting indeed, on the other hand I think we are during R2R hype wave that may go away sooner or later. In fact I do not care that much what is inside as long as it sounds awesome. Still it would be strange for a manufacturer not to exploit current know-how to build a new product. Anyway I am awaiting for Oor amp demo. Hope it will be soon.



R2R has been in the high-end 2-channel audio equipment for many years, as brand like Rockna, dCS, Holo Audio. The R2R ladder DAC technology has trickle down to desktop and portable products recently due to the lack of AKM chips. Manufacture have to find an alternative for the chip. So rather than using ESS chips, many manufactures started to build their own R2R ladder DAC in their desired form factor. I would not say it is a kind of hype IMO.

They actually do bring some benefits because manufacturers design their own R2R DAC topology, they know much better about the technical requirments and the power required to power the whole thing. They may perform better than simply filling up the DAC with multiple AKM chips for each channel, as some manufactures felt they had to put 2 or 4 AKM chips into the products to simply look better on specs, but they are simply underpowering them and not utilizing the chip entirely. Whereas for R2R dacs, there is no incentive to list beefy specs to look good on paper. All they need is to make them sound good and comparably better than ESS and AKM alternatives.

Back to Ferrum, but I don't think they will be using R2R. Most likely using an ESS circuit similar to mytek


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

alekc said:


> Rather more similar to Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ or Manhattan II than Hugo TT2 since this is what they have been manufacturing for years. I bet it would be based on ESS chip just like Mytek products are. The one option is to go with higher model of ESS than in Brooklyn or just add more chips per channel.


I wasn't trying to make a comparison.  I was trying to say an integrated DAC and AMP vs a standalone DAC.    I used the TT2 just as an example as a DAC plus AMP vs. a DAC only like a Qutest.


----------



## Womaz

Has anyone paired this pair with the 1266TC?
I know the abyss needs a lot of power . I am interested in the Ferrum and there are even rumours of a DAC product too


----------



## greyforest

burson is going to release flagship headphones amp 3GT
price point is very close to ferrum and  gsx mini


----------



## Gavin C4 (Oct 4, 2021)

After almost hitting 200 hrs of playback time for the amp. I Just turned on the amp and let it play. I found the bass to be punchier and have a better texture compared to freshly out of the box. I think it may be related to the components especially the capacitor in the Ferrum Hypsos.  The music sounded slightly fuller and slightly more analog like. Though I do not have a method to A / B my findings, the Ferrum OOR now sounded great, it has really good dynamics. It definitely can stand up if not perform better than against my other amps.


----------



## FooFighter (Oct 4, 2021)

Gavin C4 said:


> After almost hitting 200 hrs of playback time for the amp. I Just turned on the amp and let it play. I found the bass to be punchier and have a better texture compared to freshly out of the box. I think it may be related to the components especially the capacitor in the Ferrum Hypsos. Though I do not have a method to A / B my findings, the Ferrum OOR now sounded great, it has really good dynamics. It definitely can stand up if not perform better than against my other amps.


So you like it with Phi TC and Utopia?
At least TC won't disappoint regarding punch on any source I guess but you say it's now even better?
I myself am enjoying Oor with Susvara and can see a nice textured bass and even some punch when the mix calls for it, for sure less punch than TC or Utopia 😉


----------



## Gavin C4 (Oct 4, 2021)

FooFighter said:


> So you like it with Phi TC and Utopia?
> At least TC won't disappoint regarding punch on any source I guess but you say it's now even better?
> I myself am enjoying Oor with Susvara and can see a nice textured bass and even some punch when the mix calls for it, for sure less punch than TC or Utopia 😉



I have only heard the Susvara at the store demo from a Topping A90 setup. IMO, headphones at this level example TC, Utopia and Susvara will still sound reasonably good out of an A90. But they are simply better from Ferrum OOR. You really need a bad source to make them sound bad... I think the TC's natural ability to have an extremely wide and deep sound stage actually allows it to sound fairly good even out of the A90. The A90 alone may have a smaller sound stage compared to the P750u or OOR, but TC's ability would slightly mask away the smaller sound stage out of the A90. But the detail in the bass and the width of the stage is definitely better from the OOR. To be fair, the OOR is very neutral in the bass, it won't try to add extra punch or extra quantity. But the OOR will give you the best quality as possible.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Oct 4, 2021)

Slightly more impression on the Ferrum Hypsos power supply unit. I have the Ferrum Hypsos and I tried it with Ferrum OOR and also THX 789 in comparison with the stock powerbrick. The Ferrum Hypsos power supply is really the key to the setup. You have to view the Hypsos and OOR together as an entire unit. Leaving the Hypsos out will make the stage sounded slightly smaller and generally lacked the level of refinement you have from the entire combo. Even with the Hypsos & THX 789 there is an obvious amount of improvements, it sounded less boxed and less congested. 

For your information, you will have to purchase an extra cable to use the Hypsos with the THX 789 or other device with 2.1 or 2.5 dc input


----------



## lucasratmundo

@Gavin C4 Is the Oor more or less analytical than the A90 in your experience?


----------



## Gavin C4

lucasratmundo said:


> @Gavin C4 Is the Oor more or less analytical than the A90 in your experience?



Comparing between Ferrum OOR vs A90, by analytical if you mean highly detailed, then the OOR is definitely more detailed compared to the A90. But I would not simply use the word Analytical to conclude the difference between OOR and A90. With all the cables remain the same, the A90 is like a 720p camera lens, while the OOR is like a 4K Wide-angle lens. 

Does anyone want a more detailed comparison between the OOR or A90?


----------



## greyforest

Gavin C4 said:


> Comparing between Ferrum OOR vs A90, by analytical if you mean highly detailed, then the OOR is definitely more detailed compared to the A90. But I would not simply use the word Analytical to conclude the difference between OOR and A90. With all the cables remain the same, the A90 is like a 720p camera lens, while the OOR is like a 4K Wide-angle lens.
> 
> Does anyone want a more detailed comparison between the OOR or A90?


what do you think about p750u and oor now？


----------



## lucasratmundo

Gavin C4 said:


> Comparing between Ferrum OOR vs A90, by analytical if you mean highly detailed, then the OOR is definitely more detailed compared to the A90. But I would not simply use the word Analytical to conclude the difference between OOR and A90. With all the cables remain the same, the A90 is like a 720p camera lens, while the OOR is like a 4K Wide-angle lens.
> 
> Does anyone want a more detailed comparison between the OOR or A90?



How is the bass extension in the Oor compared to other amps you have?


----------



## parmiep

Gavin C4 said:


> Slightly more impression on the Ferrum Hypsos power supply unit. I have the Ferrum Hypsos and I tried it with Ferrum OOR and also THX 789 in comparison with the stock powerbrick. The Ferrum Hypsos power supply is really the key to the setup. You have to view the Hypsos and OOR together as an entire unit. Leaving the Hypsos out will make the stage sounded slightly smaller and generally lacked the level of refinement you have from the entire combo. Even with the Hypsos & THX 789 there is an obvious amount of improvements, it sounded less boxed and less congested.
> 
> For your information, you will have to purchase an extra cable to use the Hypsos with the THX 789 or other device with 2.1 or 2.5 dc input



This begs the question, which Hypsos + amp combination will be the best. I’ve seen mixed preferences between the GS-X Mini and the Ferrum stack, would be interesting to see how the Hypnos pairs with a GS-X or a Violectric/Niimbus level amp.


----------



## Gavin C4

parmiep said:


> This begs the question, which Hypsos + amp combination will be the best. I’ve seen mixed preferences between the GS-X Mini and the Ferrum stack, would be interesting to see how the Hypnos pairs with a GS-X or a Violectric/Niimbus level amp.


The Ferrum Hypsos can only be used with equipment with a DC input. I dont think the gsx mini has it. Gsx mini uses a IEC power input.


lucasratmundo said:


> How is the bass extension in the Oor compared to other amps you have?





greyforest said:


> what do you think about p750u and oor now？



I will need some more time for comparison as I have changed a few pieces of equipment recently.


----------



## greyforest

Gavin C4 said:


> The Ferrum Hypsos can only be used with equipment with a DC input. I dont think the gsx mini has it. Gsx mini uses a IEC power input.
> 
> 
> 
> I will need some more time for comparison as I have changed a few pieces of equipment recently.


he is probably talking about gsx mk2 which have a standalone power unit


----------



## Barnstormer13 (Oct 6, 2021)

When I listened to the Hypnos + Oor at Canjam I thought it was pretty musical and less dry than the GS-X mini (which I also liked). It’s a very handsome amp too. It was a good match to my Verite Closed.  Generally I prefer tubes and I thought the overall character was a little tube like, being a touch warm with a sweet top end.


----------



## Gavin C4

The Ferrum OOR packs literally a ton of power. The GSX mini only put 4w into 50ohm, whereas the Ferrum OOR puts 8w into 60ohm, that is literally double on paper. Furthermore, I can even plug IEMs into the OOR with absolute zero hiss and noise and with perfect channel balance and volume control. With the additional of a Hypsos power supply, i think the OOR is an better amp over all compared to GSX mini


----------



## greyforest

Gavin C4 said:


> The Ferrum OOR packs literally a ton of power. The GSX mini only put 4w into 50ohm, whereas the Ferrum OOR puts 8w into 60ohm, that is literally double on paper. Furthermore, I can even plug IEMs into the OOR with absolute zero hiss and noise and with perfect channel balance and volume control. With the additional of a Hypsos power supply, i think the OOR is an better amp over all compared to GSX mini


in terms of power, burson soloist 3gt have 10w into 60ohm and i am torned between oor and 3gt
price is very similar in my region


----------



## FooFighter (Oct 6, 2021)

greyforest said:


> in terms of power, burson soloist 3gt have 10w into 60ohm and i am torned between oor and 3gt
> price is very similar in my region


It was the same for me.
3gt isn't available in Germany yet as the main distributor wanted to demo it first before offering it.
Therefore I went for the Ferrum stack.
I don't think that power is really the decision factor between the 2 but sound signature, style, footprint and features.
For example I really like tweaking options with the Burson like exchangeable OPAMP modules so you can customize the sound signature to your liking.
Cannot judge on SQ as I haven't listened to Burson TOTL amps before


----------



## Womaz

greyforest said:


> in terms of power, burson soloist 3gt have 10w into 60ohm and i am torned between oor and 3gt
> price is very similar in my region


Yes I am also considering the GT as an option as I have the Burson Conductor 3X reference at present. The Oor and Hypsos is also very appealing to me as it would be something totally different. There are also rumours of  a new Ferrum product, which may be similar but with a DAC option.


----------



## FooFighter

Womaz said:


> Yes I am also considering the GT as an option as I have the Burson Conductor 3X reference at present. The Oor and Hypsos is also very appealing to me as it would be something totally different. There are also rumours of  a new Ferrum product, which may be similar but with a DAC option.


No one knows for sure about that forthcoming product but why should Ferrum bring out another amp if they yet just released a TOTL Poweramp.
I expect a DAC fitting to the current stack, eventually with a "limited" preamp stage


----------



## Womaz

FooFighter said:


> No one knows for sure about that forthcoming product but why should Ferrum bring out another amp if they yet just released a TOTL Poweramp.
> I expect a DAC fitting to the current stack, eventually with a "limited" preamp stage


Well I was just speculating, I have no idea what it will be . I think I just read on a forum post somewhere that its likely to be a DAC........I have no idea what option or form or product it will be in.


----------



## FooFighter

Maybe looking at the Mytek productline which was produced by Ferrum staff leaves some space for speculations about what they might come out with...
Keywords: Brooklyn Bridge, Manhattan DAC.
But they will also look for a competitive price point imho which is likely positioned around the OOR


----------



## HiFiDJ

Womaz said:


> Well I was just speculating, I have no idea what it will be . I think I just read on a forum post somewhere that its likely to be a DAC........I have no idea what option or form or product it will be in.


Representative said that there will be a DAC/amp combo coming soon with a flagship amp forthcoming...


----------



## lucasratmundo

HiFiDJ said:


> Representative said that there will be a DAC/amp combo coming soon with a flagship amp forthcoming...


You mean a flagship amp coming after the DAC/amp release?


----------



## FooFighter (Oct 6, 2021)

Still cannot imagine such a roadmap but just in case Ferrum will either release a combined DAC/Amp or a TOTL amp with the same amp specs as Oor, respectively higher tier components devices, I d feel myself like a Guinea pig for entry models that are surpassed shortly after being released.
Still possible that they are addressing different price and audience tiers such as Mytek Brooklyn and Manhattan product lines


----------



## lucasratmundo

FooFighter said:


> Still cannot imagine such a roadmap but just in case Ferrum will either release a combined DAC/Amp or a TOTL amp with the same amp specs as Oor I d feel myself like a Guinea pig for entry models that are surpassed shortly after being released.
> Still possible that they are addressing different price and audience tiers such as Mytek Brooklyn and Manhattan product lines


My sentiment exactly.


----------



## MatW

Yes, a standalone DAC with identical dimensions makes the most sense.

In the meantime, I'm (not so) patiently waiting for my order to be shipped..


----------



## HiFiDJ

lucasratmundo said:


> You mean a flagship amp coming after the DAC/amp release?


Yes, but the release date for the amp is TBD. It won't be that soon but the dac/amp will.


----------



## lucasratmundo

MatW said:


> In the meantime, I'm (not so) patiently waiting for my order to be shipped..



Same here. It seems I’ll be getting it next week.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Oct 7, 2021)

greyforest said:


> what do you think about p750u and oor now？



I decided to compare the Ferrum Hypsos + OOR combo vs p750u again last night with a better-controlled variable.



Spoiler: Setup Cables and Interconnect



Amp: Ferrum Hypsos + OOR   (Powercord: Neotech NEP-3001 MKIII)
Amp: Luxman P750u                (Powercord: Neotech NEP-3001 MKIII)
DAC: dCS Rossini with Clock    (Powercord: Crystal Cable Future Dream)
Interconnects: XLR                   (XLR 1.5meter : Crystal Cable Future Dream)
Headphone: Utopia                 (4-pin XLR: Norne Audio SILVERGARDE S4)



Both Amps have been turned on to warm up. Since I have two identical power cords from Neotech, I do NOT need to power off the amp to swap the cable. All I needed to do is to swap the XLR interconnects between the two amps. Both amps have been volume-matched using pink noise and measured by my smartphone.

The biggest difference between the two amps is in tonality. The Luxman P750u is smoother, especially in the bass and vocals. While the Ferrum Hypsos + OOR is slightly more focused on the high mids, lines are more prominent. The best analogy I can think of is the P750u is copper cable, while the Ferrum Hypsos + OOR is silver cable without any harshness in the highs. The Ferrum Hypsos + OOR has more clarity in the vocals and high mids. For example, piano notes on the Ferrum Hypsos + OOR have slightly more clarity and sense of lines and slightly more prominent, while the Luxman P750u has more unity and smoothness.

Both amps are equally detailed with very equal width, height, and depth.

Treble is very similar for both amps, as both amps provide a fatigue-free experience. Zero sharpness and harshness.

Bass on the Luxman P750u has more unity as it is smoother, the initial hit and the decay have a very smooth transition. While the bass on the Ferrum Hypsos + OOR has more presence in the initial hit as if you can see the lines then the decay coming afterward. Quality and quantity are very similar, the difference is in the way of presentation.

You can relate the description of soft, smooth bass and vocals with the Luxman P750u. But don't get me wrong, it is NOT layback at all. While the Ferrum Hypsos + OOR generally has more clarity and sense of lines. Vocals are slightly more prominent on the OOR. I am not sure if it is OOR's elevation in the mid-highs of the vocals or it is Luxman P750u's coloration characteristics that made the difference. It might be a mix of the two reasons. Luxman P750u slightly tube-like coloration, Ferrum Hypsos + OOR is slightly more clarity and solid-state orientated.

It really depends on your preference and paring with headphones. The music presented is slightly bronze-golden color from the Luxman P750u. While for Ferrum Hypsos + OOR it is an object that is in Silver color without any glare or sharpness. If you can appreciate the difference between a copper cable and a silver cable then you can understand what I mean, this is the best analogy I can think of. [ NOT debating about difference of cable here ]


----------



## greyforest

Gavin C4 said:


> I decided to compare the Ferrum Hypsos + OOR combo vs p750u again last night with a better-controlled variable.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thank you for such detailed comparison

i always prefer a good sliver cable for more clarity and transparency

knowing the resolution of oor is on the same level with p750u is great news


----------



## Gavin C4 (Oct 7, 2021)

It is a blessing for those who own both headphones and IEMs, the Ferrum Hypsos and OOR combo dead silent with IEMs. Even with an IEM that has a sensitivitiy of 119dB, it is dead silent. The volume has perfect volume matching. Some other amps that are not perfect with IEM such as THX 789 and A90 will have a noticeable channel imbalance for left and right at very low volumes at the start and also even turning to the lowest volume, you can still hear the music a very low volume. My other amp Luxman P750u would have a very low hum noise when plugging IEM to it. Some amps that are designed in minds only for headphones the sound will be too full or congested when playing with and IEM. The Ferrum Hypsos OOR is perfect in all areas for IEMs. Perfect channel balance, perfect volume control with enough steps of volume for sensitive IEMs and most importantly they sounded great. This combo beat every Portable Player that I have in my inventory. Simply get a 4-pin XLR to 2.5 or 4.4 adapters will make your IEM sing, and best out portable players, if you got a great dac.


----------



## MatW

Gavin C4 said:


> It is a blessing for those who own both headphones and IEMs, the Ferrum Hypsos and OOR combo dead silent with IEMs. Even with an IEM that has a sensitivitiy of 119dB, it is dead silent. The volume has perfect volume matching. Some other amps that are not perfect with IEM such as THX 789 and A90 will have a noticeable channel imbalance for left and right at very low volumes at the start and also even turning to the lowest volume, you can still hear the music a very low volume. My other amp Luxman P750u would have a very low hum noise when plugging IEM to it. Some amps that are designed in minds only for headphones the sound will be too full or congested when playing with and IEM. The Ferrum Hypsos OOR is perfect in all areas for IEMs. Perfect channel balance, perfect volume control with enough steps of volume for sensitive IEMs and most importantly they sounded great. This combo beat every Portable Player that I have in my inventory. Simply get a 4-pin XLR to 2.5 or 4.4 adapters will make your IEM sing, and best out portable players, if you got a great dac.


I'm excited to hear this. I should have mine within a few days now.

Where did you get the adapter? Looks nice.


----------



## Gavin C4

MatW said:


> I'm excited to hear this. I should have mine within a few days now.
> 
> Where did you get the adapter? Looks nice.


Norne Audio makes really nice adapter, it is from Norne Audio, if you want a lower cost option, ddhifi also makes some good ones. 

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/jack...hcYkiha6l-0ERARrc405bSwIQbIcNNBPbGWL_15wIqbbk


----------



## Gavin C4 (Oct 8, 2021)

Really nice shot of the internals of the OOR from Ferrum's youtube channel.  Fully balanced analog design. Linear response and fully controled.


----------



## lucasratmundo

I’ve been seeing reports of some Oor units having reliability issues after some days of use. Wondering if these are isolated instances of a broader issue.


----------



## FooFighter

lucasratmundo said:


> I’ve been seeing reports of some Oor units having reliability issues after some days of use. Wondering if these are isolated instances of a broader issue.


Not heard about that.
Where's that from?
Mine is having no reliability issues


----------



## greyforest

lucasratmundo said:


> I’ve been seeing reports of some Oor units having reliability issues after some days of use. Wondering if these are isolated instances of a broader issue.


what kinds of reliability issues?


----------



## Pashmeister

lucasratmundo said:


> I’ve been seeing reports of some Oor units having reliability issues after some days of use. Wondering if these are isolated instances of a broader issue.


Do u mind sharing where you’ve read these reports of issues?


----------



## Gavin C4

lucasratmundo said:


> I’ve been seeing reports of some Oor units having reliability issues after some days of use. Wondering if these are isolated instances of a broader issue.



I personally leave the amp turned on all the time, currently dont have any issue after few weeks. Hope the OOR os built to high quality and standards. Based on my experience with ss amps,  most Solid state amps rarely break down as they are really reliable. Even with the thx 789 and A90 and schiit lyr . I leave them on all the time.


----------



## lucasratmundo

greyforest said:


> what kinds of reliability issues?


The ones that I've heard of were:

Progressively needing to be turned up more to get the same volume level.
Not outputting the max wattage that it could when you first use it.
Just wondering if these are pervasive issues or just isolated cases.


----------



## greyforest

lucasratmundo said:


> The ones that I've heard of were:
> 
> Progressively needing to be turned up more to get the same volume level.
> Not outputting the max wattage that it could when you first use it.
> Just wondering if these are pervasive issues or just isolated cases.


sounds like both issues are related to power outpus
is there any progression of repair or replacement regarding those issues? 
if you could share the link to those posts will be great


----------



## lucasratmundo

greyforest said:


> sounds like both issues are related to power outpus
> is there any progression of repair or replacement regarding those issues?
> if you could share the link to those posts will be great


Seen it reported in @GoldenOne's Patreon private chat.


----------



## greyforest

lucasratmundo said:


> Seen it reported in @GoldenOne's Patreon private chat.


if you could kindly provide some screen shots it will be great...


----------



## elira

greyforest said:


> if you could kindly provide some screen shots it will be great...


You have to pay for that, @GoldenOne's knowledge and community are paywalled.


----------



## rhart00

elira said:


> You have to pay for that, @GoldenOne's knowledge and community are paywalled.


How so? Where do I find info about that


----------



## FooFighter (Oct 9, 2021)

Glad then that headfi with real user feedback is not pay rolled despite the money paid for the gear itself.
If there are good or bad experiences these should be shared so customers and manufacturers can profit from that.
Anything else is borderline trolling imho - no accusations here but just wanted to express my thoughts about "closed communities" especially if things are related to openly available products


----------



## lucasratmundo

FooFighter said:


> Glad then that headfi with real user feedback is not pay rolled despite the money paid for the gear itself.
> If there are good or bad experiences these should be shared so customers and manufacturers can profit from that.
> Anything else is borderline trolling imho - no accusations here but just wanted to express my thoughts about "closed communities" especially if things are related to openly available products



There’s no trolling at all, just two specific people who have gone through real issues with the Oor. The only reason I brought this up in this forum was to check if there are more people having similar issues, given that I’ve recently ordered one myself.

No need to start a debate about open vs closed communities here.


----------



## FooFighter

lucasratmundo said:


> There’s no trolling at all, just two specific people who have gone through real issues with the Oor. The only reason I brought this up in this forum was to check if there are more people having similar issues, given that I’ve recently ordered one myself.
> 
> No need to start a debate about open vs closed communities here.


As I stated no insult on you but just on the fact that user issues should be openly published and not hidden somewhere so it could be just fake news too.
That's all I wanted to say.


----------



## lucasratmundo

FooFighter said:


> As I stated no insult on you but just on the fact that user issues should be openly published and not hidden somewhere so it could be just fake news too.
> That's all I wanted to say.



I hear you. It seems there aren’t any other cases in this forum, which is reassuring. I’m probably getting mine next week


----------



## Womaz

I am really looking forward to you guys receiving this and to hear your impressions   
Its on my radar too


----------



## MatW




----------



## lucasratmundo

MatW said:


>


Yay! Looking forward to your impressions!


----------



## Womaz

This hobby is great isnt it , I even get excited about other people getting gear


----------



## XVampireX

Womaz said:


> This hobby is great isnt it , I even get excited about other people getting gear



Excited for them and sometimes Jealous XD


----------



## MatW (Oct 10, 2021)

Set up. Ready to go...


----------



## GoldenOne (Oct 9, 2021)

elira said:


> You have to pay for that, @GoldenOne's knowledge and community are paywalled.



No it is not. My videos aside from a couple patron exclusives, and my discord server are public. I do have a private chat for patrons and I do post things earlier in there. But that's cause, well, those are the people actively supporting me and allowing me to put time toward making content. I wouldn't be able to be doing this without them so it's only fair they get videos, impressions etc first.

But the OOR has already been discussed at some length in the discord and I always try to answer any questions I can in there.
The discord is public, and my advice is not pay walled.


In regards to the OOR. I've been speaking with the engineer at Ferrum and Ferrum generally have been incredibly responsive and helpful. Not just to me but to regular customers too. One person I know told ferrum about the issue with his unit and they replaced it in short order with no hassle at all.

At the moment there are 4 units with concerns. The first two, the gain switch failed. They've got one of these units back and this is apparently due to machine soldering on part of the switch not having been sufficient and they're soldering that part by hand from now on to address this. So luckily that one is a simple fix.

The second unit apparently the owner is finding he has to turn it up more than he did when it first arrived. Whether this is true or if so what might be causing it, is unclear.

My unit here at the moment works/sounds great. But the protection shutoff happens too early, shutting the device off at about 3-5w @ 50ohms. Whereas when it first arrived it could indeed get to 8w @ 50ohms without issue.
Ive done some further tests requested by Ferrum and now they're going to take this unit back to have a look at it.

Teething issues in any design/product launch are inevitable. It's how you handle it that counts. And Ferrum is being incredibly helpful, responsive, and transparent.


----------



## greyforest

GoldenOne said:


> No it is not. My videos aside from a couple patron exclusives, and my discord server are public. I do have a private chat for patrons and I do post things earlier in there. But that's cause, well, those are the people actively supporting me and allowing me to put time toward making content. I wouldn't be able to be doing this without them so it's only fair they get videos, impressions etc first.
> 
> But the OOR has already been discussed at some length in the discord and I always try to answer any questions I can in there.
> The discord is public, and my advice is not pay walled.
> ...


thank you for your statement, really helpful！


----------



## FooFighter

OK 
I wasn't familiar with that forum and it sounds that from the concept there are private chat rooms like there are on headfi too.


----------



## greyforest

GoldenOne said:


> No it is not. My videos aside from a couple patron exclusives, and my discord server are public. I do have a private chat for patrons and I do post things earlier in there. But that's cause, well, those are the people actively supporting me and allowing me to put time toward making content. I wouldn't be able to be doing this without them so it's only fair they get videos, impressions etc first.
> 
> But the OOR has already been discussed at some length in the discord and I always try to answer any questions I can in there.
> The discord is public, and my advice is not pay walled.
> ...


can you please describe or compare oor to some other amp？ （with hypsos）


----------



## GoldenOne

greyforest said:


> can you please describe or compare oor to some other amp？ （with hypsos）


I'd prefer not to give comparisons yet. I'd like to have a unit in-house that I can be certain is fully working and representative of a normal retail unit before finishing the review and posting comparisons just in case this unit because of that ever the fault is, sounds different to others.


----------



## greyforest

GoldenOne said:


> I'd prefer not to give comparisons yet. I'd like to have a unit in-house that I can be certain is fully working and representative of a normal retail unit before finishing the review and posting comparisons just in case this unit because of that ever the fault is, sounds different to others.


what is ferrum's response towards those unit? are they a bad batch or just independant incidents？ 
cause i rarely see people talk about this product and believe me i googled hard for long.....
if 4 units us faulty and they happen to be related to your chat room i would say statistically speaking may be the qc of ferrum is making me unrested.


----------



## alekc

GoldenOne said:


> No it is not. My videos aside from a couple patron exclusives, and my discord server are public. I do have a private chat for patrons and I do post things earlier in there. But that's cause, well, those are the people actively supporting me and allowing me to put time toward making content. I wouldn't be able to be doing this without them so it's only fair they get videos, impressions etc first.
> 
> But the OOR has already been discussed at some length in the discord and I always try to answer any questions I can in there.
> The discord is public, and my advice is not pay walled.
> ...


The thing is those guys are in a audio business for years already and headphone amp is not a rocket   science, it is not a one man manufacture product, so considering their products price tag I find theething issues rather lame excuse while it is great that manufacturer team is helping solve the problems. In fact they are doing what they should so nothing to admire in a long run. It is like putting an admiration sticker on a gentelman jacket just becouse he says "hi" every time he sees you. Sorry, no mean to offend anyone but it seems I just have higer standards for quality and thus higher expectations.


----------



## GoldenOne

greyforest said:


> what is ferrum's response towards those unit? are they a bad batch or just independant incidents？
> cause i rarely see people talk about this product and believe me i googled hard for long.....
> if 4 units us faulty and they happen to be related to your chat room i would say statistically speaking may be the qc of ferrum is making me unrested.


I don't think they can really say too much until they get the units back and take a proper look at them.
I've worked with them to do various tests and the amp is definitely not behaving as expected. But whether it's a one off or a more widespread flaw we won't know until they check it over.


----------



## greyforest

GoldenOne said:


> I don't think they can really say too much until they get the units back and take a proper look at them.
> I've worked with them to do various tests and the amp is definitely not behaving as expected. But whether it's a one off or a more widespread flaw we won't know until they check it over.


for oversea buyers like me, units repair within a month is nightmare.....not to say those postage and custom clearance


----------



## GoldenOne

alekc said:


> The thing is those guys are in a audio business for years already and headphone amp is not a rocket   science, it is not a one man manufacture product, so considering their products price tag I find theething issues rather lame excuse while it is great that manufacturer team is helping solve the problems. In fact they are doing what they should so nothing to admire in a long run. It is like putting an admiration sticker on a gentelman jacket just becouse he says "hi" every time he sees you. Sorry, no mean to offend anyone but it seems I just have higer standards for quality and thus higher expectations.


No product is going to have a 0% failure rate. It's just not possible. ESPECIALLY when you're adopting a unique design (with a LOT of power for a headphone amp) like the OOR. This isn't a lego-brick opamp build. And in fact the topology as a whole is quite unique.

I'm not sure what else they could be doing. But to expect a product to have absolutely 0 issues on any units regardless of price is just not realistic at all.


----------



## MatW

GoldenOne said:


> I don't think they can really say too much until they get the units back and take a proper look at them.
> I've worked with them to do various tests and the amp is definitely not behaving as expected. But whether it's a one off or a more widespread flaw we won't know until they check it over.


I received mine today and I'm listening to it now. Sounds good so far, but I suppose it needs some burn in. I'd be interested in those tests you did, to check if my unit is solid..


----------



## greyforest

GoldenOne said:


> No product is going to have a 0% failure rate. It's just not possible. ESPECIALLY when you're adopting a unique design (with a LOT of power for a headphone amp) like the OOR. This isn't a lego-brick opamp build. And in fact the topology as a whole is quite unique.
> 
> I'm not sure what else they could be doing. But to expect a product to have absolutely 0 issues on any units regardless of price is just not realistic at all.


may be a 0.1% rate of faulty for such hiend product?  for now only very few people have their hands on the product. i would say its safe to estimate 100 unit maybe? 8w is not a lot of power to be honest. 

i totally like the design concept of ferrum. but quality control is equally important


----------



## GoldenOne

MatW said:


> I received mine today and I'm listening to it now. Sounds good so far, but I suppose it needs some burn in. I'd be interested in those tests you did, to check if my unit is solid..


The main one is load testing, you'd unfortunately need a dummy load to do that.


----------



## Gavin C4

GoldenOne said:


> No it is not. My videos aside from a couple patron exclusives, and my discord server are public. I do have a private chat for patrons and I do post things earlier in there. But that's cause, well, those are the people actively supporting me and allowing me to put time toward making content. I wouldn't be able to be doing this without them so it's only fair they get videos, impressions etc first.
> 
> But the OOR has already been discussed at some length in the discord and I always try to answer any questions I can in there.
> The discord is public, and my advice is not pay walled.
> ...



How do I know currently how many walts the amp currently outputing? Or will the amp shutoff when u turn the volume pod up to a certain point?


----------



## Gavin C4

MatW said:


> Set up. Ready to go...


Wonderful, you can use the tubeamp as tube pre and OOR stack for poweramp function tp fully utilize the 8w power


----------



## GoldenOne (Oct 9, 2021)

Gavin C4 said:


> How do I know currently how many walts the amp currently outputing? Or will the amp shutoff when u turn the volume pod up to a certain point?


You'd need to use a known load-impedance (dummy load) and test signal, and then measure the max voltage it can output. 

Usually an amp power rating is given as the level of power it can output before reaching 1%THD

You can build a dummy load but it's not really something worth doing unless youre planning to use one often.

Im personally using this: https://neurochrome.com/products/headphone-dummy-load


----------



## MatW (Oct 9, 2021)

I'm listening to the Susvara now. High gain. The volume is at 50-60%. So there is some headroom left. But with the Formula S I have about the same headroom, while the Ferrum is supposed to be 5 times more powerful. The incoming voltage of the DAC may be different, but still, I had expected more headroom. Any other Susvara owners who can share their experience with regard to this?


Gavin C4 said:


> Wonderful, you can use the tubeamp as tube pre and OOR stack for poweramp function tp fully utilize the 8w power


Haven't tried this yet. Please remind me, where do I control the volume in that configuration? Do I use the bypass function on the OOR? Scary stuff..😊


----------



## GoldenOne (Oct 9, 2021)

MatW said:


> I'm listening to the Susvara now. High gain. The volume is at 50-60%. So there is some headroom left. But with the Formula S I have about the same headroom, while the Ferrum is supposed to be 5 times more powerful. The incoming voltage of the DAC may be different, but still, I had expected more headroom. Any other Susvara owners who can share their experience with regard to this?


This is because the volume pot controls gain (voltage). It does not indicate how much actual power headroom you have available.

You could have one amp with higher gain, or even just a pot that behaves differently (not all pots attenuate the same amount), and so it might appear that you don't have to turn it up as much, but it could indeed still have far less power.

The 789 was an interesting one. You could plug susvara in and get it 'loud' at about 12 on the pot. But keep turning the pot and it would just distort more without getting louder because it could not supply any more current to keep up.


----------



## Gavin C4

MatW said:


> I'm listening to the Susvara now. High gain. The volume is at 50-60%. So there is some headroom left. But with the Formula S I have about the same headroom, while the Ferrum is supposed to be 5 times more powerful. The incoming voltage of the DAC may be different, but still, I had expected more headroom. Any other Susvara owners who can share their experience with regard to this?
> 
> Haven't tried this yet. Please remind me, where do I control the volume in that configuration? Do I use the bypass function on the OOR? Scary stuff..😊



There is a nob at the back of the OOR, turn it the. You will bypass the volume knob of the OOR, you will be at max power. Connect your dac to the tube amp then connect the pre outs to oor. Therefore you turn the volume nob on the tube amp to control the volume


----------



## MatW (Oct 9, 2021)

Gavin C4 said:


> There is a nob at the back of the OOR, turn it the. You will bypass the volume knob of the OOR, you will be at max power. Connect your dac to the tube amp then connect the pre outs to oor. Therefore you turn the volume nob on the tube amp to control the volume


Gotcha, thanks for confirming!


GoldenOne said:


> This is because the volume pot controls gain (voltage). It does not indicate how much actual power headroom you have available.
> 
> You could have one amp with higher gain, or even just a pot that behaves differently (not all pots attenuate the same amount), and so it might appear that you don't have to turn it up as much, but it could indeed still have far less power.
> 
> The 789 was an interesting one. You could plug susvara in and get it 'loud' at about 12 on the pot. But keep turning the pot and it would just distort more without getting louder because it could not supply any more current to keep up.


I get that, to some extent, but I'm now listening to a Lord of the Rings OST, and I can turn the volume to 100% without it getting ear bleeding loud. Quite loud, yes, but not deafening. I would probably not exceed 50%-60% myself, but I don't listen that loud, usually between 70-80 dB.

EDIT: it depends on the recording too. Now Jamiroquai, and I'm not going beyond 45% 😊

And the Susvara sounds good from the OOR..


----------



## GoldenOne (Oct 9, 2021)

MatW said:


> Gotcha, thanks for confirming!
> 
> I get that, to some extent, but I'm now listening to a Lord of the Rings OST, and I can turn the volume to 100% without it getting ear bleeding loud. Quite loud, yes, but not deafening. I would probably not exceed 50%-60% myself, but I don't listen that loud, usually between 70-80 dB.
> 
> EDIT: it depends on the recording too. Now Jamiroquai, and I'm not going beyond 45% 😊


The formula S has gain settings of +10dB and +16dB. Whereas the OOR is -4.3dB, +5.6dB and +15.6dB.
So with the formula S in low gain and OOR in medium gain, the formula S is inherently going to be about 4dB louder. We also do not know what the potentiometer attenuation levels are. 12 o'clock on one pot could be -30dB and -10dB on another.
And also, even if the gain and pot were exactly the same, this still only tells you about voltage, not how much current an amp can deliver. (Which for planars/low impedance loads, is the limiting factor not voltage).

The issue is that getting something loud, driving something properly, and having headroom are all three quite different things.

Technically, to get susvara to 110dB all you need is 0.5W on paper. But try running it on a 0.5W amp and it'll sound trash 

Plenty of headphone amps can get susvara loud enough, but how well they drive them, how well they behave at the levels susvara is actually going to be running at for musical content, is a different issue.

Take the GSX mini vs the Audio GD HE9. The GSX mini is rated for 4w. And the Audio GD HE9 is rated for 9w. So the HE9 should power it better right?
Well....
The HE9 does indeed get to 9w before reaching 1% total harmonic distortion. So that spec is correct. But distortion at 32ohms starts rising all the way down at 0.02w!





And the GS-X mini which also does seem to have a correct spec of about 4.5w @ 32 ohm starts rising at about 100mw for 32 ohm.




So even though the Audio GD HE9 is 'more powerful', at a level of say 0.5W, the HE9 will have nearly 0.2% distortion whereas the GSX Mini will have only 0.007%.
It's situations like this that show the power spec in and of itself doesn't tell you the full story.

Even just the basics like the fact that power is normally measured at 1khz. But then if you measure at 30hz, or 15khz, you'll likely get quite different results.
Different amp designs can behave in so many different ways in different situations that it's very difficult to boil something down to a single number.


----------



## FooFighter

Now we re really getting more profound reviews and feedback.
@GoldenOne thx for your valuable feedback here.
I will definitely check your site at some point later.
Just repeating what I posted some time earlier: switching Oor at its backside to full throttle, thus regulating volume by the source is leading on my setup to a limited maximum volume.
My source is Shanling M30.
It seems that the maximum volume I am getting from Oor is about the same as the maximum volume I am getting out of M30 itself without Oor.
What is more changing the Gain switch on OOR is having no effect in that mode!
When running Oor in its default mode everything seems fine including Gain switching.
Can this be normal - related to the source in that different amp mode or rather be a defect?
Cheers


----------



## elira

FooFighter said:


> Now we re really getting more profound reviews and feedback.
> @GoldenOne thx for your valuable feedback here.
> I will definitely check your site at some point later.
> Just repeating what I posted some time earlier: switching Oor at its backside to full throttle, thus regulating volume by the source is leading on my setup to a limited maximum volume.
> ...


Most likely in that mode it works like a buffer rather than like an amp. For most headphones it should suffice but it might not be the best approach if you need a lot of gain.


----------



## GoldenOne

FooFighter said:


> Now we re really getting more profound reviews and feedback.
> @GoldenOne thx for your valuable feedback here.
> I will definitely check your site at some point later.
> Just repeating what I posted some time earlier: switching Oor at its backside to full throttle, thus regulating volume by the source is leading on my setup to a limited maximum volume.
> ...


This is normal as the gain switch is part of the pre section. The bypass mode as the name suggests bypasses the pre section entirely.


----------



## FooFighter (Oct 9, 2021)

What I am just wondering about is the limited maximum volume which I assumed to be as high as in normal mode.
I mean there are power amps without own dedicated volume control even where you d completely depend on that kind of control on the source.
I had e.g a Roksan K3 speaker power amp without own volume control with no limitations driving the Susvaras from my M30 but of course these are hardly comparable power wise as they'd crash any headphone driver when turned up more.
Cayin C9 which I owned before the same: amping is applied in its 2ndary amp mode and not only unamped pass through.

So you say this "bypass" mode is not amping at all beyond the amped signal of the source?
What is the sense then?
Could only imagine an added signature toning like putting tube amps into the signal path but cannot imagine a use case with Oor included...


----------



## greyforest

FooFighter said:


> Now we re really getting more profound reviews and feedback.
> @GoldenOne thx for your valuable feedback here.
> I will definitely check your site at some point later.
> Just repeating what I posted some time earlier: switching Oor at its backside to full throttle, thus regulating volume by the source is leading on my setup to a limited maximum volume.
> ...


i just recived a burson 3x amp which have bypass mode as well. in that mode the volume control is bypassed, but its like putting the amp on highest volume, it can go very very loud. i use shanling em5's pre out to control the volume i assume its similar to m30.  you should check this with ferrum


----------



## FooFighter (Oct 9, 2021)

greyforest said:


> i just recived a burson 3x amp which have bypass mode as well. in that mode the volume control is bypassed, but its like putting the amp on highest volume, it can go very very loud. i use shanling em5's pre out to control the volume i assume its similar to m30.  you should check this with ferrum


Thx mate.
Is it the Burson Grand Tourer?
The point I made is that Oor isn't getting louder than M30 in Turbo mode at full throttle which is loud but not nearly as much as Oor is getting in its standard mode. With all other amps I got to test that behavior was different.
With Oor in default mode I am listening between 10 o'clock and 11 o'clock with Susvara, in its secondary mode it's not getting louder than that at almost full throttle of my source potentiometer.
Actually no showstopper for me as I prefer the OOR potentiometer, just wanted to know if it's normal or a defect


----------



## MatW (Oct 9, 2021)

IEMs sound great with the OOR... The U18T is pretty sensitive, but no hiss at all.

EDIT: Now that it's quiet in the house I do hear some very very faint hiss when the music is paused. But my hearing is pretty good for my age. It is negligible and most people would call this silent.

EDIT 2: The U18T sounds fantastic with the OOR, can't stop listening..


----------



## lucasratmundo

Anyone had a chance to compare the Oor with other amps like the Niimbus US4/US5 or AMP-13R/AMP-23R?


----------



## FooFighter

lucasratmundo said:


> Anyone had a chance to compare the Oor with other amps like the Niimbus US4/US5 or AMP-13R/AMP-23R?


Honestly if I had the money for these amps I wouldn't have got Oor in the first place 😉


----------



## MatW

FooFighter said:


> Honestly if I had the money for these amps I wouldn't have got Oor in the first place 😉


For me the size of the OOR was also a selling point. I think most TOTL amps are larger, and I needed a fairly small one.


----------



## FooFighter

MatW said:


> For me the size of the OOR was also a selling point. I think most TOTL amps are larger, and I needed a fairly small one.


True, same for me but a 13R for example is quite small too and if money was no object I d go for it.
Let's see how other reviewers will judge but I am personally thinking that the rumored future Ferrum TOTL amp will be more competitive if we re talking about a summitfi tier


----------



## Gavin C4

FooFighter said:


> True, same for me but a 13R for example is quite small too and if money was no object I d go for it.
> Let's see how other reviewers will judge but I am personally thinking that the rumored future Ferrum TOTL amp will be more competitive if we re talking about a summitfi tier


I thought the rumored was a dac amp combo with 4.4, what info did you get for a future TOTL amp that even best out the OOR ?


----------



## MatW

For me 3k is a TOTL price..😊


----------



## FooFighter

Gavin C4 said:


> I thought the rumored was a dac amp combo with 4.4, what info did you get for a future TOTL amp that even best out the OOR ?


Just go a few pages back.
Someone stating he has internal information about a Ferrum TOTL amp being developed but no release date yet.


----------



## FooFighter (Oct 10, 2021)

MatW said:


> For me 3k is a TOTL price..😊


For me too, I don't have the feeling though that I am yet reaching the desired musical target with Susvara even with Oor but can be just the complicated Susvara use case.
If I didn't get Susvara I d stayed happy with my old chain...
I think thought that this target is highly individual and depends on taste, experience with previous gear and most important gear synergy which can be a hard path to be discovered alone trying to mix different gears from different brands if not trusting in experiences from other people using the very exact same setup.


----------



## Womaz

This is the problem though isnt it. We always have that what if I could get this to sound better   
I got the 1266 TCs about 3 weeks ago and wow what a step up. Now like a lot of people on here I am wondering is my Amp good enough, am I getting enough out of them. They sound bloody amazing to me .....but still I search.
The Oor definitely has my interest as do a few other combinations.


----------



## MatW

Womaz said:


> This is the problem though isnt it. We always have that what if I could get this to sound better
> I got the 1266 TCs about 3 weeks ago and wow what a step up. Now like a lot of people on here I am wondering is my Amp good enough, am I getting enough out of them. They sound bloody amazing to me .....but still I search.
> The Oor definitely has my interest as do a few other combinations.


I wanted to upgrade my setup 2, and the OOR does the job, based on the first two days. There is always better and more, but with regards to amps and DACs, I'm done.


----------



## Womaz (Oct 10, 2021)

MatW said:


> I wanted to upgrade my setup 2, and the OOR does the job, based on the first two days. There is always better and more, but with regards to amps and DACs, I'm done.


Good to hear. You have a great set up there. My DAC would have to be around a 2K budget if I went for the Hypsos and Oor. I guess thats why I wish I knew what this new product is. I have time to wait .....but patience is ABSOLUTELY not one of my strong points.
Look forward to hearing your impressions.

Just noticed you are moving from the Formula S and Powerman ?? This will be an interesting comparison for me as they would be near the top of my list if they were easier to obtain here in the UK


----------



## Gavin C4

MatW said:


> I'm listening to the Susvara now. High gain. The volume is at 50-60%. So there is some headroom left. But with the Formula S I have about the same headroom, while the Ferrum is supposed to be 5 times more powerful. The incoming voltage of the DAC may be different, but still, I had expected more headroom. Any other Susvara owners who can share their experience with regard to this?
> 
> Haven't tried this yet. Please remind me, where do I control the volume in that configuration? Do I use the bypass function on the OOR? Scary stuff..😊


Really look forward to the comparisoj between forumla S vs OOR. But besure to let the ferrum stacl to settle down for about 50 + hrs first.


----------



## Womaz

I


Gavin C4 said:


> Really look forward to the comparisoj between forumla S vs OOR. But besure to let the ferrum stacl to settle down for about 50 + hrs first.


I think we are all eagerly awaiting this comparison


----------



## Rukley

Does anyone know if it's possible to buy the OOR or Hypsos in North America? I've been searching to no avail. I reached out to Ferrum but haven't heard back yet.


----------



## HiFiDJ

Rukley said:


> Does anyone know if it's possible to buy the OOR or Hypsos in North America? I've been searching to no avail. I reached out to Ferrum but haven't heard back yet.


Try to contact these guys. They are the NA distributors I met from CanJam.

https://vanaltd.com/


----------



## Rukley

HiFiDJ said:


> Try to contact these guys. They are the NA distributors I met from CanJam.
> 
> https://vanaltd.com/


I'll reach out to them, thank you!


----------



## lucasratmundo (Oct 11, 2021)

Womaz said:


> I think we are all eagerly awaiting this comparison


I’ll be getting a Niimbus US5 Pro in the next month or so. It should be another good comparison between the Oor and a higher end amp.


----------



## Benno1988

Ferrum users. Quick questions;

Volume pot. What is it? Is it very good?
Gain. Does it effect the preamp outputs?


----------



## FooFighter

Benno1988 said:


> Ferrum users. Quick questions;
> 
> Volume pot. What is it? Is it very good?
> Gain. Does it effect the preamp outputs?


Alps resistance potentiometer.
It's very accurate and to my ears raising volume linearly and not logarithmic like.
Haven't tried preamp mode - you really want to use a power amp as preamp?


----------



## elira

FooFighter said:


> raising volume linearly and not logarithmic


If that were the case it would be a very bad thing.


----------



## FooFighter

elira said:


> If that were the case it would be a very bad thing.


Of course I didn't mean that literally but there are enough amps who are not linearly raising the volume so it's worth to mention that Oor is very good here


----------



## greyforest

MatW said:


> I wanted to upgrade my setup 2, and the OOR does the job, based on the first two days. There is always better and more, but with regards to amps and DACs, I'm done.


Any impression against formula ？


----------



## MatW

greyforest said:


> Any impression against formula ？


The Formula S and the OOR are in two different locations in my house, and part of different chains ito DAC/streaming. So at this point a direct comparison is difficult. What I will say is that with the OOR and DAC upgrades, I feel I have achieved my objective of significantly reducing the gap between my setup 1 and 2. Setup 1 has the edge still, unsurprisingly, but they both sound great, also with the Susvara. For now, this is all I've got... 🤷‍♂️


----------



## greyforest

MatW said:


> The Formula S and the OOR are in two different locations in my house, and part of different chains ito DAC/streaming. So at this point a direct comparison is difficult. What I will say is that with the OOR and DAC upgrades, I feel I have achieved my objective of significantly reducing the gap between my setup 1 and 2. Setup 1 has the edge still, unsurprisingly, but they both sound great, also with the Susvara. For now, this is all I've got... 🤷‍♂️


if you ever have the chance may be you can bring oor to your dave system？

i havent heard oor+hypsos but i did heard formula s before，if oor is what ferrum promised maybe just maybe oor is better than formula.


----------



## MatW (Oct 16, 2021)

greyforest said:


> if you ever have the chance may be you can bring oor to your dave system？
> 
> i havent heard oor+hypsos but i did heard formula s before，if oor is what ferrum promised maybe just maybe oor is better than formula.


The OOR will stay in setup 2, even if it's better, because the Formula S is too large for setup 2. I can hardly imagine the OOR being better, but who knows. I will be doing some renovations in a week or two, and will need to dismantle setup 2. I can bring the OOR to setup 1 at that point. But don't expect a thorough review, I'm not a reviewer, merely a headfi and music lover..😊

One element where the OOR is better is with sensitive headphones. The Formula S (at least my unit) produces a faint electrical noise (hard to describe, not hiss) with easy to drive headphones like the Empyrean. Hardly noticeable for most people I'm sure, but I hear it.


----------



## FooFighter

Interesting review recommending to play with Gain settings of Oor (medium vs high) to reach different characteristics with Susvara (Chinese - needs Google Translate).
I was always listening on High Gain so far, will try later 
https://3g.163.com/dy/article/GM217CRA0538KWK1.html?


----------



## greyforest

FooFighter said:


> Interesting review recommending to play with Gain settings of Oor (medium vs high) to reach different characteristics with Susvara (Chinese - needs Google Translate).
> I was always listening on High Gain so far, will try later
> https://3g.163.com/dy/article/GM217CRA0538KWK1.html?


i read it, wouldnt trust a word they say. its a very commercial channel. besides that there is no oor in china at the moment. may be in Hongkong


----------



## akqrate

yolosauce said:


> My pc has 6 fans running while I listen to music and they're barely audible. So I bet the fan in the GT will be a non-issue like you said. My only concern regarding the fan is if it stops working will the GT overheat or not turn on at all.


It only runs at 700rpm and barely makes any noise at all… I confirmed this directly with Burson. I live in Melbourne and actually got in touch with one of the lead engineers.


----------



## greyforest

akqrate said:


> It only runs at 700rpm and barely makes any noise at all… I confirmed this directly with Burson. I live in Melbourne and actually got in touch with one of the lead engineers.


can you ask him some noise issues i got with two burson soloist 3x for me？


----------



## greyforest

GoldenOne said:


> No it is not. My videos aside from a couple patron exclusives, and my discord server are public. I do have a private chat for patrons and I do post things earlier in there. But that's cause, well, those are the people actively supporting me and allowing me to put time toward making content. I wouldn't be able to be doing this without them so it's only fair they get videos, impressions etc first.
> 
> But the OOR has already been discussed at some length in the discord and I always try to answer any questions I can in there.
> The discord is public, and my advice is not pay walled.
> ...


How is the oor problem ？Is it solved ？


----------



## greyforest

I would suggest anyone put up their buying order on the oor , I just went to the store to pick up my door, and out of the box....It makes no sound. At all, and later it suddenly start to function on and off randomly..... Talk about quality control....


----------



## FooFighter (Oct 19, 2021)

am feeling sorry mate!
No issues here thank God.
So obviously the cases reported by @GoldenOne were no exceptions


----------



## MatW

greyforest said:


> I would suggest anyone put up their buying order on the oor , I just went to the store to pick up my door, and out of the box....It makes no sound. At all, and later it suddenly start to function on and off randomly..... Talk about quality control....


That is not good.. Did you reach out to HEM? Good luck getting this resolved.


----------



## greyforest

FooFighter said:


> am feeling sorry mate!
> No issues here thank God.
> So obviously the cases reported by @GoldenOne were no exceptions


I was driving stealth balanced with it. For the time I could listening to it(with hypsos).  Did some comparison with gsx mini 
Oor is very detailed, and clean. But soundstage is smaller, lacks bit of dynamics and energy.
It sounds like the amp section of hugo tt2 but improved a bit.

What leaves me amazed a bit is how Small it is. And very transparent 

Bit I wouldn't say it's a totl amp. Soundstage is not at that level yet.


----------



## greyforest

Stealth is a really good headphone..... so vivid

But still lacks a bit of punch compared with dynamics driver


----------



## MasterZen

greyforest said:


> I was driving stealth balanced with it. For the time I could listening to it(with hypsos).  Did some comparison with gsx mini
> Oor is very detailed, and clean. But soundstage is smaller, lacks bit of dynamics and energy.
> It sounds like the amp section of hugo tt2 but improved a bit.
> 
> ...


I was thinking of getting the ferrum stack to go with my TT2, but if its 'only improved a bit' , might have to look elsewhere.... was hoping it would be TOTL amp for £3k but maybe not there yet, especially if theres QC issues....


----------



## FooFighter (Oct 19, 2021)

The sound stage thing is indeed a bit 2 sided.
After longer listening sessions I didn't find it the widest but very deep, tight and controlled.
I don't feel though it's overly lacking in width like e.g I remember my first good amp Violectric V200 which was quite narrow and I preferred to listen to Ifi Micro Idsd those many years ago on my LCD-2s.
It feels like there's width but the actors are more located at the front and not circular around you like on my Shanling M30.
When listening to live concerts there's indeed not as much live feeling as on my M30.
Running Oor balanced doesn't give me the feeling it's lacking dynamics in highest gain with Susvara.
Going down with Gain is leading to some smoothing effect like in the review article I posted from Chinese side a few pages back.
It's similar to running Oor single ended then.
Punch is a bit difficult to judge for me with a headphone like Susvara.
It's tight and good controlled 
Connecting my Denon AH-D9200 there is good punch, not worse than running directly out of my Shanling M30


----------



## greyforest

FooFighter said:


> The sound stage thing is indeed a bit 2 sided.
> After longer listening sessions I didn't find it the widest but very deep, tight and controlled.
> I don't feel though it's overly lacking in width like e.g I remember my first good amp Violectric V200 which was quite narrow and I preferred to listen to Ifi Micro Idsd those many years ago on my LCD-2s.
> It feels like there's width but the actors are more located at the front and not circular around you like on my Shanling M30.
> ...


I did try sus with oor, for me I need to turn the volume to max to get enough sound pressure

It drives it okk ish, but again soundstage is no where near pass line compared to integrate amp driven sus


----------



## greyforest

MasterZen said:


> I was thinking of getting the ferrum stack to go with my TT2, but if its 'only improved a bit' , might have to look elsewhere.... was hoping it would be TOTL amp for £3k but maybe not there yet, especially if theres QC issues....


Yep... It's on par with gsx mini and much more expensive cause you need hypsos


----------



## FooFighter (Oct 19, 2021)

greyforest said:


> I did try sus with oor, for me I need to turn the volume to max to get enough sound pressure
> 
> It drives it okk ish, but again soundstage is no where near pass line compared to integrate amp driven sus


Re you running single-ended?
I am running it balanced on highest gain at 1 o'clock max, at 3 it's already far too loud.
As Oor has a fully balanced design I'd even dare to say it's under performing in SE mode.
At least I am feeling that dynamics, low end and high end are kind of more flat in direct comparison


----------



## Whitigir

1.6W into 300 ohms is very respectable, but I hear Susvara needs even more juice !!! Not sure how much though


----------



## greyforest

FooFighter said:


> Re you running single-ended?
> I am running it balanced on highest gain at 1 o'clock max, at 3 it's already far too loud.
> As Oor has a fully balanced design I'd even dare to say it's under performing in SE mode.
> At least I am feeling that dynamics, low end and high end are kind of more flat in direct comparison


i only tried balanced output with oor （stealth，sus，1266tc
and....YES i did maxed volume（with 1266tc only half of the max high gain is enough）
and oor is connected to a very expensive system
even the power cord i tried with oor is the flagship of transparent
so i dont think there is any bottle neck


----------



## greyforest

i would say based on my today‘s experience
ferrum as a brand does took a hit in my heart

But hypsos+oor does offer something that other amp currently dont have ：：：its fast&clean&detialed almost like a thx amp done right
i dont think its a good match for planner headphone as oor lacks the control

but may be with good transperant dynamic driver such as utopia or adx5000 it might out perform other amps

however this is depends on if the unit is reliable and functional 

for such price tag, i consider whatever the faulty is in my unit it simply shows how ferrum as a brand lacks very basic quality control as anyone would spot this problem instantly if they ever borther to turn it on.

i feel lucky as i went to the shop to test it out, but far as i know another 9 unit within the same batch had got into the market today.


----------



## Pashmeister

Oof. Glad I didn’t get one yet. Ima have to wait this out for a bit before purchasing.
Volot wasn’t going smoothly either. Growing pains!


----------



## elira

greyforest said:


> i would say based on my today‘s experience
> ferrum as a brand does took a hit in my heart
> 
> But hypsos+oor does offer something that other amp currently dont have ：：：its fast&clean&detialed almost like a thx amp done right
> ...


It could have been damaged during shipping, by the way boxes are handled it wouldn’t surprise me.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

MasterZen said:


> I was thinking of getting the ferrum stack to go with my TT2, but if its 'only improved a bit' , might have to look elsewhere.... was hoping it would be TOTL amp for £3k but maybe not there yet, especially if theres QC issues....


I own a TT2 and I heard the Ferrum Orr.  It is significantly better than the TT2 amp section to my ear.    I am probably going to buy one soon.   Going to wait to see what happens with their quality control.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

greyforest said:


> I did try sus with oor, for me I need to turn the volume to max to get enough sound pressure
> 
> It drives it okk ish, but again soundstage is no where near pass line compared to integrate amp driven sus


Interesting.   For Utopia, it really dramatically improved the sound stage.


----------



## XVampireX

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Interesting.   For Utopia, it really dramatically improved the sound stage.


Add Holo Audio May to the mix then, and you'll be in heaven for Soundstage and Imaging


----------



## greyforest

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I own a TT2 and I heard the Ferrum Orr.  It is significantly better than the TT2 amp section to my ear.    I am probably going to buy one soon.   Going to wait to see what happens with their quality control.


I did the comparison with tt2, it is definitely is more detailed, but the characteristics is similar . Clean and transparent


----------



## greyforest

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Interesting.   For Utopia, it really dramatically improved the sound stage.


As I mentioned oor might be good for transparent dynamic driver. Such as adx5000 or utopia
As oor lacks in control it makes up with speed and resolution


----------



## AllOutPotato

Also have my eyes on this and I do hope the QC issues are resolved soon. Impressions from CanJam all seemed positive and this ticks quite a few of my boxes. Anyone know if warranty issues would go through Vana or Ferrum directly?

Some usability questions for any owners out there: how warm does the unit run and does the volume pot ever get hot to the touch? Does the pot turn smoothly and precisely and is there a nice amount of resistance? Do the gain and input switches have a satisfying tactility?


----------



## Gavin C4

I have my OOR for almost one month now, currently without any issues. As for planners Headphone, the OOR does have enough current to make them slam. I dont really see any problem with plannar pairing as to the same as dynamic headphones. But if you are comparing the OOR with speaker taps on the hifiman, then it is another story.


----------



## Gavin C4

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Interesting.   For Utopia, it really dramatically improved the sound stage.







Never heard the Utopia with such a wide sound stage before the addition of OOR .


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Gavin C4 said:


> Never heard the Utopia with such a wide sound stage before the addition of OOR .


it's the best I've ever heard the Utopia with the Ferrum Oor.   I will be getting one.   Not sure when, but I will unless I find something better overall.


----------



## Rukley

Does anyone have any insights on the OOR vs the Niimbus US5


----------



## FooFighter

Anyone else getting only 23.9 V displayed on Hypsos when setting the default 24V?
Not a big deal but still strange


----------



## AllOutPotato

afaik that sort of variation is pretty normal


----------



## Gavin C4




----------



## Gavin C4

FooFighter said:


> Anyone else getting only 23.9 V displayed on Hypsos when setting the default 24V?
> Not a big deal but still strange






My unit is consistently on 24.1v , But I dont really hear the difference by modify the V by 0.1 .


----------



## Gavin C4 (Oct 25, 2021)

greyforest said:


> i think it is essential to get the ferrum power unit with oor
> hpysos is somewhat a smart unit with full feedback design with oor there gonna be an technological edge over those conventional amp
> its been too long for those 90s analog technology to get any breakthrough
> i hope oor+hpysos is the one


A lot of higher-end equipment such as AMP nowadays either goes for a separate power supply or full CNC body with internal compartments for the best performance. Such as the Woo WA33, GSX MK II, and even more exotic amp such as AMP-13R and the headphone amp from 2channel world MSB technology and even preamps from Gryphon. The Hypsos and OOR combo is another example of a separate isolate power supply design. Therefore, the Ferrum combo is definitely worth it as you are now moving into the ultra-high-end designs standards.
Below is an example of the CNC internal compartment for amps from MSB. In the ultra-high-end world, it seems that companies have come to a consensus that perfect isolation for the power supply through CNC internal compartments or a discrete design is more favourable than traditionally haveing all components in the same box.


[headphone amp from MSB technology with CNC internal compartments] 


[Ferrum Hypsos and OOR discrete powersupply design]


[Gryphon Pandora Preamp with discrete power supply design.]


----------



## jonathan c

Gavin C4 said:


> A lot of higher-end equipment such as AMP nowadays either goes for a separate power supply or full CNC body with internal compartments for the best performance. Such as the Woo WA33, GSX MK II, and even more exotic amp such as AMP-13R and the headphone amp from 2channel world MSB technology and even preamps from Gryphon. The Hypsos and OOR combo is another example of a separate isolate power supply design. Therefore, the Ferrum combo is definitely worth it as you are now moving into the ultra-high-end designs standards.
> Below is an example of the CNC internal compartment for amps from MSB. In the ultra-high-end world, it seems that companies have come to a consensus that perfect isolation for the power supply through CNC internal compartments or a discrete design is more favourable than traditionally haveing all components in the same box.
> 
> 
> ...


Do not forget the Linear Tube Audio MZ3…


----------



## Rukley

The OOR and Hypsos come with their own connecting cable, so the 2.1 or 2.5mm cable you can order with it could be used for powering a NUC or something else then?


----------



## MatW

Rukley said:


> The OOR and Hypsos come with their own connecting cable, so the 2.1 or 2.5mm cable you can order with it could be used for powering a NUC or something else then?


No, the Hypsos can power one device, not two simultaneously. So if it's powering the OOR, that's it.


----------



## Gavin C4

Rukley said:


> The OOR and Hypsos come with their own connecting cable, so the 2.1 or 2.5mm cable you can order with it could be used for powering a NUC or something else then?



I ordered a second hypsos, and 2.5 mm power cable, i use it to power the roon nucleus. But one hypsos can only power 1 device at a time.


----------



## OneEyedHito (Oct 27, 2021)

Deleted to reduce redundancy


----------



## FooFighter

Really annoying, glad I am not having such issues but replacing mainboards like spare parts by end users shouldn't be a policy in that class


----------



## OneEyedHito (Oct 27, 2021)

GoldenOne said:


> No it is not. My videos aside from a couple patron exclusives, and my discord server are public. I do have a private chat for patrons and I do post things earlier in there. But that's cause, well, those are the people actively supporting me and allowing me to put time toward making content. I wouldn't be able to be doing this without them so it's only fair they get videos, impressions etc first.
> 
> But the OOR has already been discussed at some length in the discord and I always try to answer any questions I can in there.
> The discord is public, and my advice is not pay walled.
> ...


Add me to the list of gain issues.  My unit stopped working at fully +16db gain, it outputs the same power/volume at 0db & -6db of gain but occasionally the volume will suddenly increase to the +16db gain, I have to be extra careful with the volume right now. When it arrived it powered my Susvara to Max listening volume with the volume at 12 o'clock and now it requires volume at 3 o'clock to even full volume.  

Ferrum is not wanting to replace my unit but wants me to send mine to the North America Distributor to have the Main Board replaced.  I am going to reach out again now after reading these other experiences and request a full exchange or return.  I will be keeping the Hyposis regardless, it is a great piece of kit. 

Keep up the great work on YT please.

_Update: My Dealer is doing his best and I am hopeful for a good resolution soon.  We are pushing for an exchange to a confirmed good unit._


----------



## GoldenOne

Third unit arrived today and it does indeed have the protection issue sorted.

Full measurements of the OOR+HYPSOS (and OOR without HYPSOS) are available here: https://goldensound.audio/2021/10/27/ferrum-oor-and-hypsos-measurements/


----------



## MatW

GoldenOne said:


> Third unit arrived today and it does indeed have the protection issue sorted.
> 
> Full measurements of the OOR+HYPSOS (and OOR without HYPSOS) are available here: https://goldensound.audio/2021/10/27/ferrum-oor-and-hypsos-measurements/


How does the protection issue reveal itself, exactly?


----------



## GoldenOne

MatW said:


> How does the protection issue reveal itself, exactly?


The amplifier would automatically shutoff (overcurrent protection) at about 3-4w instead of reaching the specified 8w.


----------



## FooFighter

GoldenOne said:


> Third unit arrived today and it does indeed have the protection issue sorted.
> 
> Full measurements of the OOR+HYPSOS (and OOR without HYPSOS) are available here: https://goldensound.audio/2021/10/27/ferrum-oor-and-hypsos-measurements/


Thx for this extensive measuring review!
Am again coming back to a question I raised a few weeks ago and your review still seems to make me question if my Oor is running correctly as you re stating that bypass mode is measuring slightly better and is getting louder too...
I am not getting full volume in Bypass mode using my Shanling M30 as a Preamp using balanced XLR.
Using the standard amp mode I am getting full juice.
I know that M30 preamp mode is working with other Power amps without volume control such as Roksan K3.
So is my unit faulty?


----------



## Gavin C4 (Oct 27, 2021)

GoldenOne said:


> Third unit arrived today and it does indeed have the protection issue sorted.
> 
> Full measurements of the OOR+HYPSOS (and OOR without HYPSOS) are available here: https://goldensound.audio/2021/10/27/ferrum-oor-and-hypsos-measurements/


With the power of almost 10w at 32ohms, thats at the same level of power compared to the Burson Soloist 3X  Head Amp/Pre Amp. Hopefully there will be a sound comparision between the OOR and Burson.

Based on Ferrum instagram, the Hypsos power supply can be partnered with the Burson amp. There might be an increase in performance too as the power quality improved significantly.


----------



## Gavin C4

OneEyedHito said:


> Add me to the list of gain issues.  My unit stopped working at fully +16db gain, it outputs the same power/volume at 0db & -6db of gain but occasionally the volume will suddenly increase to the +16db gain, I have to be extra careful with the volume right now. When it arrived it powered my Susvara to Max listening volume with the volume at 12 o'clock and now it requires volume at 3 o'clock to even full volume.
> 
> Ferrum is not wanting to replace my unit but wants me to send mine to the North America Distributor to have the Main Board replaced.  I am going to reach out again now after reading these other experiences and request a full exchange or return.  I will be keeping the Hyposis regardless, it is a great piece of kit.
> 
> ...


The OOR is an really good amp, I love mines. Hopefully you can get your issue sorted out soon. Although Ferrum is a new brand, but they already have all the experience and engineer they need as they built all the mytek equipments. I didnt expect they would have fualty units. Hope Ferrum get the problem solved. Cuz based on GoldenOne, the OOR is really a very powerfully and technically amazing product with lots of jusic.


----------



## GoldenOne

FooFighter said:


> Thx for this extensive measuring review!
> Am again coming back to a question I raised a few weeks ago and your review still seems to make me question if my Oor is running correctly as you re stating that bypass mode is measuring slightly better and is getting louder too...
> I am not getting full volume in Bypass mode using my Shanling M30 as a Preamp using balanced XLR.
> Using the standard amp mode I am getting full juice.
> ...


When in bypass mode the output level should be the same (give or take a fraction of a dB) as when it is in 0dB gain mode. So if you're comparing high gain to bypass that's why. High gain uses an additional pre-amplification stage which is not used in 0dB or bypass mode.


Gavin C4 said:


> With the power of almost 10w at 32ohms, thats at the same level of power compared to the
> Burson Soloist 3X Grand Tourer Head Amp/Pre Amp. Hopefully they will be a sound comparision between the OOR and Burson.


The Soloist 3X GT actually has a fair bit less as it's 8w @ 32 ohm. So the OOR has a fair bit more.
Though with very hard to drive cans like susvara the power spec alone (measured at 1khz) won't tell the full story. It can be a good indication of course, but how the amp performs at 1-5w etc can be unexpected.

As an example, the Audio-GD HE9 does about 7.5W @ 32 ohm. And the GSX mini is 'only' 4.5w.
(Power spec is determined by level of power output before hitting 1% THD)










BUT, the HE9 whilst it has more power, begins rising distortion much earlier than the GSX mini, at about 20mw. Whereas the GS-X mini doesn't start til about 100mw.

At 1w output, the HE9 has 10x more distortion than the GS-X mini, even though the max power before hitting 1% is higher.
So the power spec of an amp can sometimes be misleading as to how it might actually sound with very hard to drive headphones. Additionally this is all at 1khz. It doesn't say much about how an amp might perform with signals at say 30hz or 18khz. Which could be quite different.

I'd definitely love to try the soloist though. Hopefully a review unit might make its way to the UK


----------



## Gavin C4

GoldenOne said:


> When in bypass mode the output level should be the same (give or take a fraction of a dB) as when it is in 0dB gain mode. So if you're comparing high gain to bypass that's why. High gain uses an additional pre-amplification stage which is not used in 0dB or bypass mode.
> 
> The Soloist 3X GT actually has a fair bit less as it's 8w @ 32 ohm. So the OOR has a fair bit more.
> Though with very hard to drive cans like susvara the power spec alone (measured at 1khz) won't tell the full story. It can be a good indication of course, but how the amp performs at 1-5w etc can be unexpected.
> ...


Thanks, that is very informative. Then thats why all amps sounded differently even if they have the similar power output. Really need more of this kind of information as raw measurements only gives you a glimpse of the amp but not the full picture.


----------



## deafenears

@GoldenOne, thanks for the measurements, always good to have various other sources of info. Have you brought up the HYPSOS PSU noise with HEM/Ferrum Audio? Wojtek is quite receptive of feedback. Also, there seems to be a slight channel imbalance with 50mv out ?

Finally, IIRC, @chargedcapacitor or @eskamobob1 tried their LCD-R with the OOR and it seems to be a good one box solution!


----------



## GoldenOne

deafenears said:


> @GoldenOne, thanks for the measurements, always good to have various other sources of info. Have you brought up the HYPSOS PSU noise with HEM/Ferrum Audio? Wojtek is quite receptive of feedback. Also, there seems to be a slight channel imbalance with 50mv out ?
> 
> Finally, IIRC, @chargedcapacitor or @eskamobob1 tried their LCD-R with the OOR and it seems to be a good one box solution!


Yep I did check that with them and they confirmed it was normal and expected. Any linear psu will have some leakage. The gsx mini for example has a little less than the oor but still a fair bit.

Wojtek and max have both been super communicative and helpful. There have been a couple other bits that we discussed and they've been incredibly receptive to everything.

Channel imbalance at very low levels of a potentiometer is also common. It's just the pot not the amp itself and will be present to some degree on any amp unless it's using a vol control chip or stepped attenuator.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

deafenears said:


> @GoldenOne, thanks for the measurements, always good to have various other sources of info. Have you brought up the HYPSOS PSU noise with HEM/Ferrum Audio? Wojtek is quite receptive of feedback. Also, there seems to be a slight channel imbalance with 50mv out ?
> 
> Finally, IIRC, @chargedcapacitor or @eskamobob1 tried their LCD-R with the OOR and it seems to be a good one box solution!


It wasn't me, although I have been looking into the OOR for use with my LCD-R and LCD-5.


----------



## eskamobob1

deafenears said:


> @GoldenOne, thanks for the measurements, always good to have various other sources of info. Have you brought up the HYPSOS PSU noise with HEM/Ferrum Audio? Wojtek is quite receptive of feedback. Also, there seems to be a slight channel imbalance with 50mv out ?
> 
> Finally, IIRC, @chargedcapacitor or @eskamobob1 tried their LCD-R with the OOR and it seems to be a good one box solution!



I did try it at the reps go ahead. I enjoyed it but would need a lot more time. It was clearly better separated and layered than jot R but I can't comment on much else or against other higher tier amps without more time.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Oct 28, 2021)

eskamobob1 said:


> I did try it at the reps go ahead. I enjoyed it but would need a lot more time. It was clearly better separated and layered than jot R but I can't comment on much else or against other higher tier amps without more time.



Imo the raw performance of the OOR Hypsos is already at a very high level for solid state amps. Compared to my other amps, it is almost sole a slight change in signature rather than an upgrade. Diminished returns have definitely kicked in at this level. I guess you will have to go to the $6000 - 10k tube amps to chase for the final 3% of that tube magic experience.

The 1266 have a very wide sound stage with the OOR Hypsos. If I am to invest into tube amp at the 10k level, I would invest it towards a 2 channel systems for the ultimate experience.


----------



## MatW

I briefly compared the OOR/Hypsos to the Formula S/Powerman, in the same chain, my setup 1. They both sound great to me. Very clear, transparent, detailed. I'm not sure I could have passed a blind test. The FS/P feels a little more effortless, but that is in part because the OOR gets warmer physically, giving me the impression (not true I'm sure) that it needs to 'work harder'.

I earlier perceived the FS/P to have similar headroom or even more than the OOR, despite the higher power rating of the latter. But it turns out that this is explained by the higher output voltage of the Dave (6V) vs the Qutest (3V). When I connect the OOR to the Dave, it has plenty of headroom with the Susvara.


----------



## deafenears

MatW said:


> The FS/P feels a little more effortless, but that is in part because the OOR gets warmer physically


The FS/P are larger units with more volume in the chassis, also looks like it has more / larger heat sinks so would likely be reasons it runs cooler than the OOR.


----------



## GoldenOne

deafenears said:


> The FS/P are larger units with more volume in the chassis, also looks like it has more / larger heat sinks so would likely be reasons it runs cooler than the OOR.


Main reason would be that it has only about 30% of the power of the OOR.

The Formula S is 3w @ 32 ohm. Whereas the OOR can get to almost 10w @ 32 ohm

The heatsyncs in the Formula S aren't actually attached to anything and are just there for aesthetics.


MatW said:


> I earlier perceived the FS/P to have similar headroom or even more than the OOR, despite the higher power rating of the latter.


Worth noting that power headroom cannot be determined by the volume pot. The volume pot adjusts gain, but just cause an amp has higher gain it does not mean it has more power. And in fact with various loads you could end up in a situation where at 50% etc of the pot the amplifier will simply clip or distort because there is not enough power to go higher.


----------



## paradoxper (Oct 28, 2021)

GoldenOne said:


> The heatsyncs in the Formula S aren't actually attached to anything and are just there for aesthetics.


Which is so silly. More than that, more than paying for empty off-board heatsinks, then you pay for the overpriced woeful power supply. LMAO

Hello Dark Star vibes. Hello Wells Audio. Such a shame.


----------



## Gavin C4

GoldenOne said:


> Main reason would be that it has only about 30% of the power of the OOR.
> 
> The Formula S is 3w @ 32 ohm. Whereas the OOR can get to almost 10w @ 32 ohm
> 
> ...


If I remember correctly, the Formula S is not fully balanced internally, it only provides xlr input but it is switch back into single ended inside the amp section. Correct me if I am wrong.

Whereas OOR is fully analogue and balanced with a mirror duo mono circuit on the board. Made in Poland.


----------



## greyforest

Gavin C4 said:


> If I remember correctly, the Formula S is not fully balanced internally, it only provides xlr input but it is switch back into single ended inside the amp section. Correct me if I am wrong.
> 
> Whereas OOR is fully analogue and balanced with a mirror duo mono circuit on the board. Made in Poland.


it is, they expect you to buy two formula s to enable the balanced output

as a brand it is know for ripoff in china.


----------



## GoldenOne (Oct 29, 2021)

paradoxper said:


> Which is so silly. More than that, more than paying for empty off-board heatsinks, then you pay for the overpriced woeful power supply. LMAO
> 
> Hello Dark Star vibes. Hello Wells Audio. Such a shame.


Yeah the internals of the formula s are..... Well woeful to say the least. Pretty sure it's literally just a couple opamps under those heatsyncs too.


Gavin C4 said:


> If I remember correctly, the Formula S is not fully balanced internally, it only provides xlr input but it is switch back into single ended inside the amp section. Correct me if I am wrong.
> 
> Whereas OOR is fully analogue and balanced with a mirror duo mono circuit on the board. Made in Poland.


Yep it's single ended internally, there are no balanced inputs though, only single ended.



And yep bonus points for the heatsyncs on the side not being attached to anything.

If people have the formula S and enjoy it that's great, but I could never recommend that to anyone.

This is the 2800EUR power supply....




Their Sagra DAC is also just using the Soekris DAM1021-12 board which is 299 EUR (and likely much less given XI will be ordering bulk).
Possibly even the DAM1012-05 which is 219 EUR RRP.....

Slap a $50 amanero USB module and MAYBE $100 of PSU parts in there and boom, sell it for a 1000% markup....







I'm sure plenty of people enjoy their XI audio products, and that's great. Honestly nowadays most stuff sounds good, but there is no way they can justify that sort of ridiculous markup. It's a borderline scam.


----------



## MatW

GoldenOne said:


> Yep it's single ended internally, there are no balanced inputs though, only single ended.


There are also units with XLR connectors. I have one. Picture below is from the web though. But the internals are still single ended.









GoldenOne said:


> This is the 2800EUR power supply...


Reminds me of the inside of the Roon Nucleus:


----------



## GoldenOne (Oct 29, 2021)

MatW said:


> There are also units with XLR connectors. I have one. Picture below is from the web though. But the internals are still single ended.


Ah ok
Well....lets hope they're actually doing the balanced to SE conversion safely. But my guess is they're just shorting the negative to ground (which could damage some dacs immediately or over time) given as there is no balanced buffer circuitry in the amp itself.


MatW said:


> Reminds me of the inside of the Roon Nucleus:


Yep the Roon Nucleus is another joke tbh. I'm sure the chassis was not all that cheap to make, so that could genuinely be a few hundred, but charging a several hundred percent markup for what is literally just a standard NUC is ridiculous.

I love roon itself, honestly couldn't live without it, but the nucleus is a waste of money.

Unfortunately these sorts of products are ever-present in audio.

There's the Taiko Extreme which sells for THIRTY THOUSAND EUROS https://taikoaudio.com/taiko-2020/product/sgm-extreme-high-end-music-server/
And it's literally just a regular server mobo/cpu with a fancy chassis and psu.
https://www.asus.com/uk/Commercial-Servers-Workstations/WS-C621E-SAGE/




I quite like how they've marked one of the USB outputs as 'DAC' even though it's just one of the stock outputs on the mobo that happens to be a couple cm from the other usb banks.




Given the fact that this is going to be an extremely beefy PC this system would almost certainly have vastly higher noise levels than most regular PCs, and a raspberry pi at $50 would be laughing.

But hey, it's expensive with a fancy chassis so it MUST be good right?


----------



## OneEyedHito

GoldenOne said:


> Yeah the internals of the formula s are..... Well woeful to say the least. Pretty sure it's literally just a couple opamps under those heatsyncs too.
> 
> Yep it's single ended internally, there are no balanced inputs though, only single ended.
> 
> ...


All of this said, I still prefer sound over aesthetics, measurements, and construction. How does the Powerman / Formula S stuff sound?!  I’ve heard it is reference level for some but we know how hearing differs. Any comparisons here against the Ferrum Gear that we are discussing or just the internals and heat sinks?


----------



## Andy777777

I’m not sure we can condemn the Sagra DAC just because it uses Soekris parts. They are quality R2R boards. Are there any other DACs that use Soekris boards and a linear PSU at the same or lower price? 

For that matter, do we know the actual cost on the in house R2R boards like Sonnet, Metrum and Aqua? It may similar to the Soekris OEM parts 

Not trying to bait anyone, genuinely asking! 😁


----------



## GoldenOne (Oct 29, 2021)

Andy777777 said:


> I’m not sure we can condemn the Sagra DAC just because it uses Soekris parts. They are quality R2R boards. Are there any other DACs that use Soekris boards and a linear PSU at the same or lower price?
> 
> For that matter, do we know the actual cost on the in house R2R boards like Sonnet, Metrum and Aqua? It may similar to the Soekris OEM parts
> 
> Not trying to bait anyone, genuinely asking! 😁


The soekris stuff is indeed good. I'm not at all saying that the sagra dac is bad, in fact the fact that it's using a soekris board implies it probably is decent. I'm just saying that the price is completely unjustified.

The schiit vali 2 is a nice little amp. But if it was £5000 it'd be ridiculous.

We don't know much about other manufacturers margins. But they'll have R&D costs (and will not have the benefit of economies of scale that soekris does given the volume they produce) that will increase things significantly.

But regardless of the true value, even a quick glance inside a terminator, may, or wavelight (all of which are very similarly priced to the sagra) will show that there is a lot more cost involved than putting a couple low-cost oem parts together


----------



## Gavin C4 (Oct 30, 2021)

GoldenOne said:


> Yeah the internals of the formula s are..... Well woeful to say the least. Pretty sure it's literally just a couple opamps under those heatsyncs too.
> 
> Yep it's single ended internally, there are no balanced inputs though, only single ended.
> 
> ...





The Ferrum Hypsos power supply is much better and generous regarding the internal components. Double the number of power capacitors and the ability to change voltage. A much more complicated circuit board. And it is made in Poland. This is totally a different realm with the xi audio power supply.


----------



## lucasratmundo

OneEyedHito said:


> Add me to the list of gain issues.  My unit stopped working at fully +16db gain, it outputs the same power/volume at 0db & -6db of gain but occasionally the volume will suddenly increase to the +16db gain, I have to be extra careful with the volume right now. When it arrived it powered my Susvara to Max listening volume with the volume at 12 o'clock and now it requires volume at 3 o'clock to even full volume.
> 
> Ferrum is not wanting to replace my unit but wants me to send mine to the North America Distributor to have the Main Board replaced.  I am going to reach out again now after reading these other experiences and request a full exchange or return.  I will be keeping the Hyposis regardless, it is a great piece of kit.
> 
> ...


My Oor was delivered today. My unit requires 3 o'clock at high gain to drive the Susvara properly from day one. Expected?


----------



## FooFighter (Nov 1, 2021)

lucasratmundo said:


> My Oor was delivered today. My unit requires 3 o'clock at high gain to drive the Susvara properly from day one. Expected?


RCA or XLR?
What your source voltage?
From around 4V source XLR I am hardly getting over 12 o'clock ever, mostly around 11 o'clock.
I strongly recommend running Oor balanced to fully use it as it's also a fully balanced implementation.
3 o'clock is my volume wheel position listening on Medium Gain for a smoother more forgiving presentation with less dynamics.


----------



## OneEyedHito

lucasratmundo said:


> My Oor was delivered today. My unit requires 3 o'clock at high gain to drive the Susvara properly from day one. Expected?


No!  Are you using the Hyposis?  Asking because you have to set the voltage to the Oor if so.


----------



## GoldenOne

It's not possible to tell whether the amp is outputting the correct level by comparing to others listening levels.

Different people listen at different volumes. Different dacs will have different output levels, different tracks need different levels.

If you want to be sure you need to get a multimeter


----------



## lucasratmundo

FWIW, I’m using XLR inputs on the Oor fed by a May DAC.


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## FooFighter (Nov 1, 2021)

lucasratmundo said:


> FWIW, I’m using XLR inputs on the Oor fed by a May DAC.


Gosh, I wished I had your DAC, that's really decent!
I was trying to find the XLR output voltage of your KTE but haven't succeeded.
Can you try to find out?
Would be a joke to need an extra preamp for that decent DAC.
But in fact there are DACs with only 2 Volts, not sure about KTE.
3 o'clock at high gain xlr wouldn't be acceptable for me personally with Susvara too...
Or there's indeed an issue with Oor

Edit:
I found this thread here:
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/holo-audio-may-kte-dac.30952/post-718815

It seems on the May DAC DSD output is -6Db than PCM.
Running in PCM mode with 5.8Vrms out of XLR your ears must explode at 3 o'clock on high gain Imho.

Can you pls check in which mode you have tested the volume?


----------



## OneEyedHito

FooFighter said:


> Gosh, I wished I had your DAC, that's really decent!
> I was trying to find the XLR output voltage of your KTE but haven't succeeded.
> Can you try to find out?
> Would be a joke to need an extra preamp for that decent DAC.
> ...


Here are the output specs for the May & Spring 3.

27Ohm for RCA and 54Ohm for XLR

5.8V XLR
2.8V RCA


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## FooFighter (Nov 1, 2021)

GoldenOne said:


> It's not possible to tell whether the amp is outputting the correct level by comparing to others listening levels.
> 
> Different people listen at different volumes. Different dacs will have different output levels, different tracks need different levels.
> 
> If you want to be sure you need to get a multimeter


I understand but honestly I wouldn't feel comfortable needing to run a Poweramp at 75% throttle (does that translate correctly from the OOR measurements at 3 o'clock?) to reach a comfortable listening level with my favorite headphone.
As a comparison: am running Susvara at 75% throttle out of my underpowered Shanling M30 directly in Transistor (OPAMP mode) without additional Poweramp for a comfortable listening volume.


----------



## lucasratmundo

Oops, my bad, the Oor is actually connected to a TT2, not May. Apologies for the confusion!


----------



## FooFighter

lucasratmundo said:


> Oops, my bad, the Oor is actually connected to a TT2, not May. Apologies for the confusion!


Then I don't understand it at all.
Doesn't TT2 deliver 9,4V at high gain out of XLR?
That's louder than any output I know...
Maybe something for @MatW to comment on now


----------



## lucasratmundo (Nov 1, 2021)

It seems TT2 outputs 5v from XLR when in DAC mode. I'll try using the TT2 as a preamp to the Oor to see if I get different results.


----------



## MatW (Nov 1, 2021)

lucasratmundo said:


> It seems TT2 outputs 5v from XLR when in DAC mode. I'll try using the TT2 as a preamp to the Oor to see if I get different results.


I no longer have a TT2, but looking at the manual, it puts out 2.5V "on all outputs".  Does that mean 5V with dual XLR?






If it's 2.5V and not 5V it would be close to the Qutest, which I have set at 3V. With the Qutest and a relatively 'quiet' song (some songs are recorded much louder than others), I was also at 2-3 o' clock in high gain, with the Susvara. With more energetic songs it would be 11-12 o' clock though. I don't listen very loud, probably 75 dB. I also expected to have more room left on the volume dial, in that situation.

With the Dave though, which puts out 6V through the balanced XLR connections, most songs were plenty loud for me in medium gain, ~12 o' clock. If the TT2 indeed puts out 5V, you likely either listen much louder, or to more subdued music, e.g. classical. Or there is something wrong with the OOR.


----------



## lucasratmundo

MatW said:


> I no longer have a TT2, but looking at the manual, it puts out 2.5V "on all outputs".  Does that mean 5V with dual XLR?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing. Yeah, a 2.5v output from the TT2 would explain the results in my system. I don't listen very loud either, between 75dB and 80dB. I'll try TT2 in preamp  mode and pair the Oor with the May tomorrow and report back.


----------



## lucasratmundo

lucasratmundo said:


> Thanks for sharing. Yeah, a 2.5v output from the TT2 would explain the results in my system. I don't listen very loud either, between 75dB and 80dB. I'll try TT2 in preamp  mode and pair the Oor with the May tomorrow and report back.


I'll also try TT2 as preamp to the Oor in bypass mode to see if it sounds different.


----------



## GoldenOne

FooFighter said:


> I understand but honestly I wouldn't feel comfortable needing to run a Poweramp at 75% throttle (does that translate correctly from the OOR measurements at 3 o'clock?) to reach a comfortable listening level with my favorite headphone.
> As a comparison: am running Susvara at 75% throttle out of my underpowered Shanling M30 directly in Transistor (OPAMP mode) without additional Poweramp for a comfortable listening volume.





lucasratmundo said:


> Oops, my bad, the Oor is actually connected to a TT2, not May. Apologies for the confusion!


Did a quick test. With a 4v input, high gain, 3 o'clock on the put the OOR would be outputting about 11.5v if the music itself was absolutely full-volume with 0 headroom.

This equates to about 2w at susvara impedance. The amp is capable of >8w.

Really is worth checking what output level you're actually getting using a multimeter though, otherwise we can only speculate based on your music and how loud you like to listen which leaves a LOT of room for error.


----------



## GoldenOne

Couple key things:

1) Volume pots are (almost always) logarithmic. So even just going based off rough pot position can be massively inaccurate.

2) The output level of the amp is VERY unlikely to change as it would require the physical value of components to change.
The issue with 'losing power' was that the amp shut-off and went into over-protect early (around 4w). Not that it had less gain/lower output level.

3) You cannot tell how powerful an amp is or how much headroom is available based on pot position. The pot adjusts gain. You can have a VERY high gain 3w amp and be really loud at 10 o'clock. And then have a lower gain amp with 10x the power but you need to turn it up to 3 o'clock. Volume pot just adjusts gain. It doesn't tell you how much current capability or power the amp has.


----------



## lucasratmundo

GoldenOne said:


> Couple key things:
> 
> 1) Volume pots are (almost always) logarithmic. So even just going based off rough pot position can be massively inaccurate.
> 
> ...


This is very helpful context, thanks for sharing, @GoldenOne!


----------



## whitefang

GoldenOne said:


> Couple key things:
> 
> 3) You cannot tell how powerful an amp is or how much headroom is available based on pot position. The pot adjusts gain. You can have a VERY high gain 3w amp and be really loud at 10 o'clock. And then have a lower gain amp with 10x the power but you need to turn it up to 3 o'clock. Volume pot just adjusts gain. It doesn't tell you how much current capability or power the amp has.


This^

A lot of people seems to still confused with this.
Remember some portable amp back then with some non sense gain just to give an illusion of "powerfulness"
gets the hd800 pretty loud even before 9o 'clock position, then it clips before even hitting 12 o'clock. Leaving more than half the pot useless.


----------



## Sense

lucasratmundo said:


> I'll also try TT2 as preamp to the Oor in bypass mode to see if it sounds different.


Interested to know if it sounds different…I have a TT2 and was thinking about picking up and OOR and a Susvara at some point.


----------



## MatW

The point here is that the OOR does not seem to be able to drive the Susvara to play very loud, if it's fed with a 3v input. Despite all the power it has available. It's loud enough, certainly for me, but I was able to turn the volume up to 100% in high gain without it getting super loud, probably not over 90 dB. With a fairly quiet song, I should add.

To emphasize again, it's not an issue for me at all, also because I usually pair the OOR with less demanding cans, but I can imagine for Susvara owners (with <3v source) that they'd feel better with more room left on the volume dial.


----------



## whitefang

MatW said:


> The point here is that the OOR does not seem to be able to drive the Susvara to play very loud, if it's fed with a 3v input. Despite all the power it has available. It's loud enough, certainly for me, but I was able to turn the volume up to 100% in high gain without it getting super loud, probably not over 90 dB. With a fairly quiet song, I should add.
> 
> To emphasize again, it's not an issue for me at all, also because I usually pair the OOR with less demanding cans, but I can imagine for Susvara owners (with <3v source) that they'd feel better with more room left on the volume dial.


So it is the opposite of the problem, not enough gain to actually utilize the power it is capable to output.
Just saw the official data that the high gain has 16db for balanced and only 10db for single ended.
Certainly not enough to provide the headroom for very demanding planars.


----------



## FooFighter

As we re yet talking about having powerful headphone amps - without going for speaker amps,  which  alternative PURE HEADPHONE amps are having more juice than OOR IN THE SAME price tier?


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## whitefang (Nov 2, 2021)

Seems the team lacks a bit of experience in designing consumer headphone amps.
The gain is probably an easy fix and one could try to ask to custom make one with higher gain when ordering.

the Benchmark HPA4 also have the same problem with inadequate gain, but if you pair with DAC 3 which has insane output it is not a problem.

Really have to say FLUX LABS does a really good job on this matter as their amp has tons of power and also right gain level.
they also used relay volume control with a lot of steps, so even with highly sensitive headphone there is still plenty of room to accurately adjust the volume despite the high gain.


FooFighter said:


> As we re yet talking about having powerful headphone amps - without going for speaker amps,  which  alternative PURE HEADPHONE amps are having more juice than OOR IN THE SAME price tier?


There are quite a few
GSX MK2 has slightly lower power but still powerful enough to drive anything. Mytek THX88 and HPA4 has about same power as GSX mk2
Flux amps have even more power than OOR.. also Dynahi and CFA give stupid amount of power.
I consider Ragnarok to be a headphone amp even though it is also a speaker amp.
if you include used market then RSA Dark Star and Cavalli Liquid Gold.


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## whitefang (Nov 2, 2021)

if you want to know the actual numbers, just from my memory, it might be wrong but wont be too far off

Mytek 888: 6W into 16 ohms
Benchmark HPA4: 6W into 16 ohms
GSX mk2: 6W into 32 ohm
Liquid Gold: 9 or 10W into 50 ohm
iFi pro iCan: 14W into 16 ohms
Ragnarok: 12 or 15(?)W into 50ohm
Flux FA-10: 16W into 32 ohms,
Flux VOLOT should have even more power but IDK
Dark Star(undisclosed, but I am pretty sure it is more than the 8W OOR)
Custom Dynahi/CFA3: can have more power than everything above depending on your build

note that the GSX, Dynahi & CFA are pure Class A power
Flux claims class A but I am not certain, it doesn't get as warm as any other Class A I know of. therefore I doubt given its power.
Ragnarok and Liquid Gold is partially Class A, change to Class AB on high power.
All others pretty sure does not run Class A.
it is just for your information, I am not going to debate if Class A power is superior or anything. I am not knowledgeable enough to discuss about this anyway. But "Class A" seems to be a thing some people care about.


----------



## FooFighter

whitefang said:


> if you want to know the actual numbers, just from my memory, it might be wrong but wont be too far off
> 
> Mytek 888: 6W into 16 ohms
> Benchmark HPA4: 6W into 16 ohms
> ...


Thx for that!
Looking at the specs pretty much all the amps but last few are having less juice than OOR?


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## whitefang (Nov 2, 2021)

FooFighter said:


> Thx for that!
> Looking at the specs pretty much all the amps but last few are having less juice than OOR?


technically yes, but 6W is already some stupid amount of power that your headphone will never ever need. (except SR1a)
I understand some might want even more power for the "effortlessness" or whatever but it is already way beyond what one should worry.
Using 6W to drive HE6 is like having Arnold Schwarzenegger to lift a 10lb Dumbbell.

if you really just care about power than the FLUX it is.
It can drive the HE6 without clipping even when connected to the iFi IEM match+ with highest attenuation(-24db), then smokes comes out from the IEM match+ because the resistor blown up, and the amp still runs fine.

Yep I tried it myself.

Not sure if it is actually Class A but it certainly has the power they claimed.

Also unsure about the math but I think +24db is more than 100 times the power.


----------



## FooFighter

For me I think it's not relevant if I continue using sources with enough juice as long as there are no SQ relevant aspects vs OOR which I yet have and actually wanted to keep because of it's versatility for driving low impedance gear as well as Susvara plus having a really desktop friendly footprint


----------



## whitefang

FooFighter said:


> For me I think it's not relevant if I continue using sources with enough juice as long as there are no SQ relevant aspects vs OOR which I yet have and actually wanted to keep because of it's versatility for driving low impedance gear as well as Susvara plus having a really desktop friendly footprint


Then consider the Benchmark dac3.
Probably no one would doubt the performance of the Benchmark DAC.
And it has some crazy loud output, maxed at 20Vrms IIRC(+27.5db).
If the OOR can take it, plus its 10db gain it will have all the headroom you need for the Susvara.


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## FooFighter (Nov 2, 2021)

whitefang said:


> Then consider the Benchmark dac3.
> Probably no one would doubt the performance of the Benchmark DAC.
> And it has some crazy loud output, maxed at 20Vrms IIRC(+27.5db).
> If the OOR can take it, plus its 10db gain it will have all the headroom you need for the Susvara.


Thx, will check it out.
Actually I am waiting for the new Ferrum DAC/Streamer but will consider doing some side by side comparison as I can get Benchmark devices from local Thomann vendor which has generous return policies.
In comparison to the tiny Oor even the more compact Benchmark devices are looking a bit clumsy 😉
Edit: DAC3 is quite compact, I had investigated the HPA-series before...
It seems to be limited regarding decoding specs though, 24/192 PCM is its maximum...


----------



## GoldenOne

whitefang said:


> This^
> 
> A lot of people seems to still confused with this.
> Remember some portable amp back then with some non sense gain just to give an illusion of "powerfulness"
> gets the hd800 pretty loud even before 9o 'clock position, then it clips before even hitting 12 o'clock. Leaving more than half the pot useless.


Yep and it's unfortunately seeming to become something of a common practice to make amps look more powerful than they are. Just making them really high gain so that it FEELS like they've got tons of headroom. Couple amps I've had in recently would literally power anything





whitefang said:


> So it is the opposite of the problem, not enough gain to actually utilize the power it is capable to output.
> Just saw the official data that the high gain has 16db for balanced and only 10db for single ended.
> Certainly not enough to provide the headroom for very demanding planars.


How loud are you listening? If its not got enough gain you should definitely consider lowering your volume. Those are super dangerous levels


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## OneEyedHito (Nov 2, 2021)

MatW said:


> I no longer have a TT2, but looking at the manual, it puts out 2.5V "on all outputs".  Does that mean 5V with dual XLR?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mat do you still have the Oor in house?  Are you using the Hyposis with it?  If so on it still being in-house try all three levels on the gain switch and see if you hear 3 different levels. When I first got mine I didn’t need to go over 11-12 o’clock w/Susvara in high gain but something happened to mine and the gain switch only had 2 discernible levels after and I had to go to 3 or 4 o’clock also for around 80-85db. I could even turn it up 100% which not the case when the gain switch worked correctly. My unit went back for repair/replacement so I won’t have it back for a week or so.

In regards to the Hyposis power  supply it outputs 24v to the Oor on standard setting as directed by the software.

I say all of this because for the first two weeks I had mine there  was no way I was turning it up 100% and then all of as sudden one day I could and the pot settings are similar to yours so it’s worth checking that your gain switch is working on all 3 levels. Mine only worked in 0db and -6db after something happened, meaning that the volume at +12db and 0db were the same and -6db was lower. The power would come back intermittently also which was a non starter when the volume at 3-4 o’clock.


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## Gavin C4 (Nov 2, 2021)

My dCS DAC allows me to adjust the DAC's output voltage from 0.2 to 6v. Definitely adaptive to every situation. I think the OOR can accept XLR input voltage of 6v and it should sound fine without clipping.


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## FooFighter (Nov 2, 2021)

Can you test playing DSD with 6V as my earlier quoted post is saying that will work only with PCM?
Other question: why not always using 6V (your Screenshot is still showing that 2V is selected) as this should provide superior headroom and prevents OOR from running in some "more likely difficult" amping running at around 75% or more throttle


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## FooFighter (Nov 2, 2021)

@GoldenOne 
I appreciate and like your statements about the relativity of volume wheel positions and the conclusions for the outcoming signal.
What I am though interested in is in which amping range will OOR perform at its best?
Has this been measured and can that be translated to the volume wheel position or does it also depend on the input voltage though OOR is amping that input signal relatively no matter how much Volts it has?
The point I want to clarify is: what is the recommended volume range without distortions or any measurable  SQ degradations?
Is Headroom measurable besides looking at a volume wheel or knowing that the signal could be raised even higher?
So final question: in how far does it make sense to invest into preamping beyond 3 or 4V?
My example use case is always Susvara as one of the most demanding cans


----------



## Gavin C4 (Nov 2, 2021)

FooFighter said:


> Can you test playing DSD with 6V as my earlier quoted post is saying that will work only with PCM?
> Other question: why not always using 6V (your Screenshot is still showing that 2V is selected) as this should provide superior headroom and prevents OOR from running in some "more likely difficult" amping running at around 75% or more throttle









No problem at all setting to 6v on the DAC when playing DSD files. DSD files are usually lower volumed compared to other modern FLAC files, as shown on the timeline on Roon. I usually use 2v as a preset because I might plugin my IEM into the OOR from time to time.


----------



## FooFighter

Thx!
how is your impression now with Oor vs 2V using your most difficult headphone?
Where's the volume wheel in comparison?


----------



## MatW (Nov 2, 2021)

OneEyedHito said:


> Mat do you still have the Oor in house?  Are you using the Hyposis with it?  If so on it still being in-house try all three levels on the gain switch and see if you hear 3 different levels. When I first got mine I didn’t need to go over 11-12 o’clock w/Susvara in high gain but something happened to mine and the gain switch only had 2 discernible levels after and I had to go to 3 or 4 o’clock also for around 80-85db. I could even turn it up 100% which not the case when the gain switch worked correctly. My unit went back for repair/replacement so I won’t have it back for a week or so.
> 
> In regards to the Hyposis power  supply it outputs 24v to the Oor on standard setting as directed by the software.
> 
> I say all of this because for the first two weeks I had mine there  was no way I was turning it up 100% and then all of as sudden one day I could and the pot settings are similar to yours so it’s worth checking that your gain switch is working on all 3 levels. Mine only worked in 0db and -6db after something happened, meaning that the volume at +12db and 0db were the same and -6db was lower. The power would come back intermittently also which was a non starter when the volume at 3-4 o’clock.


Yes, the gain switch works fine on the OOR. Switches failing, both the gain switch and RCA/XLR source switch, is a known issue on the first batch.

I have not played with the voltage on the Hypsos, as I don't know by how much this can be adjusted safely, and I am not sure about the benefits.


----------



## FooFighter (Nov 2, 2021)

I think the safe adjustment areas are preprogrammed into the Hypsos for the selectable devices.
I've read in some review that setting the highest value (which is 30V) for OOR may result in a life spam < 10 years.
I ve played around a bit and in all honesty not heard any change.
I think some reviewers claimed to hear nuances of differences for very specific recordings and song positions.

Playing around with mid and high gain  and adjusting volume to the same level is leading to much more recognizable differences


----------



## whitefang (Nov 2, 2021)

GoldenOne said:


> Yep and it's unfortunately seeming to become something of a common practice to make amps look more powerful than they are. Just making them really high gain so that it FEELS like they've got tons of headroom. Couple amps I've had in recently would literally power anything
> How loud are you listening? If its not got enough gain you should definitely consider lowering your volume. Those are super dangerous levels


it is great for you to be concerned with listening level, I wish more people do that.

I did not measure the volume I listen to but I know I am a fairly low volume listener.
I want to protect my hearing as much as possible because I still want to enjoy head-fi when I am 90.
I need to wear custom earplugs on concert or party and a lot of time I still feel volume uncomfortable even with earplugs on so now I just avoid them.

I don't own the OOR but 10db gain is most likely enough for myself with low volume recordings even with the HE6, but I have experienced how loud people listen to on a lot of head-fi meets/canjam etc. And I am pretty certain it might not be enough for some people.

And there could be various reasons one would need more headroom. To just name a few..
-Source has low output
-Source sound bad with high output (some daps for sure have this problem)
-some modified headphone might be even less sensitive than stock HE-6.
-volume matching work that require lowering volume from the source
-Using in-line equalizer/attenuator which would lower the volume even more
-Listen to something that is not music..(or music not mastered/equalized to have the same volume as normal commercial ones.)

 etc. etc.

For me it is not the "intended use" of headphone amp but I do want the gain. because Iam lazy and I sometimes use my HE6 as speakers and I listen to it from 5 meters away.


----------



## GoldenOne (Nov 2, 2021)

whitefang said:


> if you want to know the actual numbers, just from my memory, it might be wrong but wont be too far off
> 
> Mytek 888: 6W into 16 ohms
> Benchmark HPA4: 6W into 16 ohms
> ...


Converting so they're all at 32 ohm for direct comparison:


Mytek Liberty 888:  Power is given as '6W' with no mention of what impedance they spec that for. So the spec is basically useless

Benchmark HPA4: 3w

GSX Mk2: Assumed ~7.8w. No official spec. parttimeaudiophile says 5w into 50 ohm which is 7.8w into 32 ohm. But there's no source. Innerfidelity graph on ASR says 2.2w so no idea unless someone tests it.

Liquid gold: 6.22W

ifi pro iCan:  7w

Ragnarok V2: 24W

Flux FA-10: 16W

Flux VOLOT: 16W

Dark Star: No spec or independent tests available

Cynahi/CFA3: As mentioned, depends on build. I'm actually getting one in soon so can test the CFA3 shortly.

Benchmark AHB2: 25W

OOR: 9.5W


A lot of manufacturers have started giving power spec at 16 ohm to make it look more than other amps which typically list at 32 ohm. Watch out for this


----------



## GoldenOne

Gavin C4 said:


> My dCS DAC allows me to adjust the DAC's output voltage from 0.2 to 6v. Definitely adaptive to every situation. I think the OOR can accept XLR input voltage of 6v and it should sound fine without clipping.


Got a Bartok here atm, can confirm it works fine at 6v output on the OOR
(would highly recommend not using the DSD upsampling on the dCS though as it adds a ridiculous amount of ultrasonic noise which could potentially degrade the performance of other components in your chain)


----------



## GoldenOne

MatW said:


> Yes, the gain switch works fine on the OOR. Switches failing, both the gain switch and RCA/XLR source switch, is a known issue on the first batch.
> 
> I have not played with the voltage on the Hypsos, as I don't know by how much this can be adjusted safely, and I am not sure about the benefits.


On the HYPSOS if you have it set to OOR in the menu (not just manually configured to 24v) then you can go to the sweet spot voltage adjustment which will allow you to adjust between 22v and 30v


----------



## MatW

GoldenOne said:


> On the HYPSOS if you have it set to OOR in the menu (not just manually configured to 24v) then you can go to the sweet spot voltage adjustment which will allow you to adjust between 22v and 30v


Thanks. Have you done this and if so, what was your experience?


----------



## whitefang (Nov 2, 2021)

GoldenOne said:


> Converting so they're all at 32 ohm for direct comparison:
> 
> 
> Mytek Liberty 888:  Power is given as '6W' with no mention of what impedance they spec that for. So the spec is basically useless
> ...



Thank you for making thing clear.
However I notice a lot of amp does not follow this pattern when converting the Power into a different ohm load.
 i.e. 6W into 16 ohm does not mean 3W in 32 ohm.

Just from the GS-X measurement you can see it has 3.1W into 16 ohm but it has a lot more than 1.6W into 32. and I am pretty sure the graph is single ended so the actual should be doubled and will make sense.

And especially Violectric amp IIRC the V200 even has even more power into 50 Ohm than into 32 ohm.

Liquid Gold I am referring to the original one which is discontinued, 9W into 50 Ohm.

for Mytek and HPA4 and SMSL SP200 are all THX888 and all rated 6W so I suppose they are all 6W into 16 ohms.


----------



## GoldenOne

whitefang said:


> Thank you for making thing clear.
> However I notice a lot of amp does not following this pattern when converting the Power into a different ohm load. i.e. 6W into 16 ohm does not mean 3W in 32 ohm.
> Just from the GS-X measurement you can see it has 3.1W into 16 ohm but it has a lot more than 1.6W into 32. and I am pretty sure the graph is single ended so the actual should be doubled and will make sense.
> And especially Violectric amp IIRC the V200 even has less power into 32 Ohm than into 50 ohm.
> ...


Generally most amplifiers will follow ohms law down until the point they either clip the maximum voltage for high impedance loads, or cannot handle the current demand for a low impedance load.

That GS-X measurement I'm not sure is correct as it would imply it has way less power then the GS-X mini.
GS-X mini is quite current limited, so it follows ohms law from 600 ohm (350mw) down to 300 ohm (700mw) and then starts falling under where it should be at 50 ohm (3.1w, should be 4.2) and 32 ohm (4.5w, should be 6.5). We also see more drastic rising distortion down at these impedances


----------



## FooFighter

Gavin C4 said:


> No problem at all setting to 6v on the DAC when playing DSD files. DSD files are usually lower volumed compared to other modern FLAC files, as shown on the timeline on Roon. I usually use 2v as a preset because I might plugin my IEM into the OOR from time to time.


Fantastic material for Susvara and OOR, thx for making me aware again of Diana Krall


----------



## Gavin C4

FooFighter said:


> Thx!
> how is your impression now with Oor vs 2V using your most difficult headphone?
> Where's the volume wheel in comparison?


With High gain, 1266 is around 12- 1 o'clock ish, depending on the loudness of the music itself.


GoldenOne said:


> Got a Bartok here atm, can confirm it works fine at 6v output on the OOR
> (would highly recommend not using the DSD upsampling on the dCS though as it adds a ridiculous amount of ultrasonic noise which could potentially degrade the performance of other components in your chain)


Thanks for the recommendation, I haven't compared it thoroughly. Let me switch back to normal DXD settings. 
Do you have experience with Roon upsampling to DSD though? Does it perform well?


----------



## Mkoll

GoldenOne said:


> Generally most amplifiers will follow ohms law down until the point they either clip the maximum voltage for high impedance loads, or cannot handle the current demand for a low impedance load.
> 
> That GS-X measurement I'm not sure is correct as it would imply it has way less power then the GS-X mini.
> GS-X mini is quite current limited, so it follows ohms law from 600 ohm (350mw) down to 300 ohm (700mw) and then starts falling under where it should be at 50 ohm (3.1w, should be 4.2) and 32 ohm (4.5w, should be 6.5). We also see more drastic rising distortion down at these impedances


Does the gs-x mini have a harder time with lower impedance loads than the OOR?


----------



## GoldenOne

Mkoll said:


> Does the gs-x mini have a harder time with lower impedance loads than the OOR?


Yes.
The GS-X mini has rising distortion setting in sooner than the OOR (and less max power).


----------



## Mkoll

GoldenOne said:


> Yes.
> The GS-X mini has rising distortion setting in sooner than the OOR (and less max power).


Thank you. 

I'm hoping you'll do an OOR YouTube review and compare it with the Mini.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Nov 4, 2021)

The more I listen to the OOR , the more I am able to appreciate its tuning. I realize it has better separation of all the insturments and vocals compared to the Luxman. Technically, it really started to beat the Luxman.


----------



## MatW

I am also starting to like it more and more. Currently listening with the Qutest and the LCD XC, and it sounds very good... 

With IEMs I wish it were a little more silent, but overall it works well with IEMs too. I do miss a 4.4 mm port. The Chinese XLR adapter I bought broke down already, need to find an alternative.


----------



## lucasratmundo

lucasratmundo said:


> Thanks for sharing. Yeah, a 2.5v output from the TT2 would explain the results in my system. I don't listen very loud either, between 75dB and 80dB. I'll try TT2 in preamp  mode and pair the Oor with the May tomorrow and report back.


Quick update: using the TT2 preamp mode's higher voltage does make Oor sound much louder at lower gains as expected. So this was just a simple case of the DAC not having output voltage that was as high as I expected.

I've also tried using the TT2 preamp mode with the Oor in bypass mode. There's maybe a very slight improvement in clarity to my ears. Nothing fundamental though.


----------



## lucasratmundo

Still need to spend more time with it to form my opinion. So far, it seems to be an amp that is _very_ transparent to the source. In this particular setup, it really lets the Chord sound shine through, which I love. I haven’t really gone through my whole headphone collection with it yet. I really like the pairing with the D8k Pro so far: smooth, spacious and detailed.


----------



## Gavin C4

MatW said:


> I am also starting to like it more and more. Currently listening with the Qutest and the LCD XC, and it sounds very good...
> 
> With IEMs I wish it were a little more silent, but overall it works well with IEMs too. I do miss a 4.4 mm port. The Chinese XLR adapter I bought broke down already, need to find an alternative.


I ordered a pigtail adapter of 4 pin xlr to 4.4 pentagon from Effect Audio. I am sure it has top level quality. Will post here when the pigtail adaper arrives.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Nov 5, 2021)

Recently I tried the power amp mode on Utopia and using dCS Rossini for pre-amp. The OOR is too  powerful for the Utopia in this configuration. I had to set the output voltage of the dCS Rossini DAC to 0.2 v. Other settings are too loud and I have to set the gain of the DAC to really low level.

I can confirm that the OOR hypsos stack has literally a tone of power. I would only recomend using the power amp mode for plannars such as 1266 etc...


----------



## MatW

FooFighter said:


> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mMWmu7d


Warning. Do not buy this adapter. It broke down after a few weeks of limited use, and the seller is refusing to replace it or refund me.


----------



## FooFighter

So sorry, no issues with mine though I hardly used it, otherwise I wouldn't have recommended it 🙄


----------



## MatW

FooFighter said:


> So sorry, no issues with mine though I hardly used it, otherwise I wouldn't have recommended it 🙄


Not your fault obviously...  The product is actually rated quite well, so I guess I was just unlucky, but the way the company is handling a complaint is why I would advise against buying this.


----------



## Whazzzup

Ferrum hypsos and oor look good, I don’t have a reason to ditch gsx mk2 at all, but if I did….


----------



## Sebbai

Does this amp have any colour? Or is it just for power? ClassA sound or Burson sweetness is what I’m looking for


----------



## FooFighter

New article about a visit at the HEM site and some hints regarding the upcoming DAC?
Unfortunately it seems to be still in development/prototype status.
https://www.hifistatement.net/feuilleton/item/3188-ein-besuch-bei-hem-teil-2?start=0
You can use Google translate.

What I understood from the report is that a ES9028 chip will be used...


----------



## Gavin C4

Sebbai said:


> Does this amp have any colour? Or is it just for power? ClassA sound or Burson sweetness is what I’m looking for


IMO the OOR does not have much coloration. The amp strength is the about clarity. While not being bright or hot in the treble region at all. Fatigue free listening epxerience.


----------



## HiFiDJ

Sebbai said:


> Does this amp have any colour? Or is it just for power? ClassA sound or Burson sweetness is what I’m looking for


If Burson is what you're looking for then I'd just go for a Burson (assuming you can get one where you live).


----------



## Sebbai

HiFiDJ said:


> If Burson is what you're looking for then I'd just go for a Burson (assuming you can get one where you live).


I already own a Burson, but there is a sweet deal in my area on the Oor, and didn’t want to read everything about it to find what I’m looking for. 

Reason I’m using Burson for reference is because the sub bass improvements coming from A90 (which is also a clean sounding amp) was insane. Are there any sub bass roll off with Oor?


----------



## OneEyedHito

The Oor drives Susvara great, on par with the AHB2. No roll off heard. Everyone’s ears are different. If it’s a great deal then get them to honor a great return policy also. I had both a Burson Soloist 3XP and a Conductor.  Neither one holds a candle to the Oor to my ears.


----------



## Sebbai

Thanks for quick response, do I need to get the Hypsos too?


----------



## OneEyedHito (Nov 13, 2021)

Sebbai said:


> Thanks for quick response, do I need to get the Hypsos too?


Yes. Without it the isn’t nearly as large of a difference between the Oor and the Soloist 3XP to me.  Which brings up the point that Burson should explore the option for an external supply also. The Hyposis will power all of Bursons gear though so the Hyposis is DEFINITELY worth it in my opinion.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Nov 13, 2021)

Sebbai said:


> I already own a Burson, but there is a sweet deal in my area on the Oor, and didn’t want to read everything about it to find what I’m looking for.
> 
> Reason I’m using Burson for reference is because the sub bass improvements coming from A90 (which is also a clean sounding amp) was insane. Are there any sub bass roll off with Oor?



I got both A90 and OOR Hypsos Stack, The OOR just beat the A90 in every aspect. Width and depth of the stage, bass detail, clarity, separation. OOR wins basically in every aspect, except the lack of the 4.4 mm jack on the OOR. In your situation, the Hypsos is really a value purchase because you can use the Hypsos with your Burson and your OOR. The Hypsos is miles ahead of a standard DC power brick, especially when you are using it to power an Analog signal.


----------



## FooFighter

Another review of the Ferrum stack 
https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2021/11/21/ferrum-audio-oor-and-hypsos-review/?amp


----------



## Bertel (Nov 22, 2021)

Gavin C4 said:


> I got both A90 and OOR Hypsos Stack, The OOR just beat the A90 in every aspect. Width and depth of the stage, bass detail, clarity, separation. OOR wins basically in every aspect, except the lack of the 4.4 mm jack on the OOR.


Same here: I have replaced my Topping A90 last week with Ferrum OOR and HYPSOS stack, driving my Dan Clark Audio Stealth, and also for me the Ferrum stack clearly excels in the aspects Gavin mentions. Good to know that both units measure well, but for me this is another indication that a unit's assumed superiority due to even better measurements doesn't necessarily fully translate into actual real life experience, at least in my case.


----------



## kvad

Did anyone test out the Oor with a tube pre-amp or tube-buffer?

I've had the Oor/Hypsos for almost a week now. Using them with the HE1000 V2. I absolutely love the pristine clean sound and control the Oor has, and yet I feel a good chunk of my playlists has lost the magic/soul tubes brought with them in my previous setup (an Xduoo TA-20 with Philips, Amperex or Mullard tubes).

Do I have a way to keep the best of both worlds, or will I mess up what I like the most about the Oor?


----------



## OneEyedHito

kvad said:


> Did anyone test out the Oor with a tube pre-amp or tube-buffer?
> 
> I've had the Oor/Hypsos for almost a week now. Using them with the HE1000 V2. I absolutely love the pristine clean sound and control the Oor has, and yet I feel a good chunk of my playlists has lost the magic/soul tubes brought with them in my previous setup (an Xduoo TA-20 with Philips, Amperex or Mullard tubes).
> 
> Do I have a way to keep the best of both worlds, or will I mess up what I like the most about the Oor?


I ran it with the WA22 as a pre and it was excellent, but I also think the Oor and Susvara are a match made in heaven as is. For a bit more context I sold my WA22 a few months ago and regretted so I ordered another one, I definitely love the tube sound.

What is your entire chain With the Oor right now and which headphones are you driving?


----------



## kvad

The whole chain is the HE1000 V2, Ferrum Oor/Hypsos fed from a Denafrips Pontus II hooked up to a Raspberry Pi/HAT via I2s. Started out with a Musician Pegasus DAC, but the Pontus was a good step up. Also tried it with an older Audio Note DAC 3.1x (usually resides in the living room) which is a bit less forward and perhaps a slightly better match.

I think many people would find the current setup to be perfect (and on certain tracks I do too), but having gotten accustomed to the slightly more meaty and ethereal sound of tubes I would love if I could combine that with the Oor.

With the WA22 as preamp, do you feel you got the strength of both?


----------



## OneEyedHito

kvad said:


> The whole chain is the HE1000 V2, Ferrum Oor/Hypsos fed from a Denafrips Pontus II hooked up to a Raspberry Pi/HAT via I2s. Started out with a Musician Pegasus DAC, but the Pontus was a good step up. Also tried it with an older Audio Note DAC 3.1x (usually resides in the living room) which is a bit less forward and perhaps a slightly better match.
> 
> I think many people would find the current setup to be perfect (and on certain tracks I do too), but having gotten accustomed to the slightly more meaty and ethereal sound of tubes I would love if I could combine that with the Oor.
> 
> With the WA22 as preamp, do you feel you got the strength of both?


The WA22 gives that wide soundstage that I’m after coupled with the exactness of the AHB2 and to a lesser degree the Oor stack. I find the Oor to be a touch warm sounding with my Holo Audio Spring 3 (similar to your Denafrips both being well implemented R2R) and not needing tubes for warmth but for expanding the soundstage. On the AHB2 the tubes are needed for warmth and body to my ears.


----------



## kvad

Thank you for your impressions @OneEyedHito, very helpful! I'm guessing my taste might tilt a little further towards the warm side than yours - so perhaps that would indeed be a good combination for me. Despite the WA22 adding more warmth than needed, you didn't feel that obscured the Oors strenght?


----------



## OneEyedHito

kvad said:


> Thank you for your impressions @OneEyedHito, very helpful! I'm guessing my taste might tilt a little further towards the warm side than yours - so perhaps that would indeed be a good combination for me. Despite the WA22 adding more warmth than needed, you didn't feel that obscured the Oors strenght?


You are very welcome.  To clarify I don't think the WA22/Oor is too warm, but that the Oor is just a bit warmer than neutral. The added soundstage for my hearing benefits from the added warmth of the WA22/Oor.


----------



## mike1953

I've just ordered the OOR/ Hypnos combo and, as it happens, I'm in the market for some new headphones as well . Budget is around £3/4K GBP, 2nd hand or New. I'm not in the market for Susvara's or Abyss but thinking Focal Utopia, maybe Empyrean Elite. What's the consensus here?


----------



## FooFighter

I've heard about good synergy with Empy to make these yet thick sounding cans more clear and fresh out of a review.
@HiFiHawaii808 reported excellent impressions with Utopia improving soundstage to a new level.
There are also Elite owners here and can post their view too


----------



## MatW

mike1953 said:


> I've just ordered the OOR/ Hypnos combo and, as it happens, I'm in the market for some new headphones as well . Budget is around £3/4K GBP, 2nd hand or New. I'm not in the market for Susvara's or Abyss but thinking Focal Utopia, maybe Empyrean Elite. What's the consensus here?


Congrats! I would have a serious look at the LCD 5. I have not heard it myself yet, but based on what I've read and heard from headfi buddies, it's an a awesome headphone, up there with the very best. (Esp if you don't mind EQ)


----------



## OneEyedHito

I’ve listened to Susvara, LCD5, Utopia, Empyrean, Elite, Liric, and a few others on the Oor/Hyposis stack. All sound great to my ears. The Oor doesn’t have anything in the sound that causes any synergy issues to me. All of those are great fit with it but they are all different than one another at this level of listening. The Susvara is my favorite with the Ferrum stack but that could be to it driving them properly and their overall superiority.

The LCD5 is my choice for a better overall “the one” AMP INDEPENDENT headphone but if you have the Oor then the Susvara is really the best to get for my tastes and ears.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

OneEyedHito said:


> I’ve listened to Susvara, LCD5, Utopia, Empyrean, Elite, Liric, and a few others on the Oor/Hyposis stack. All sound great to my ears. The Oor doesn’t have anything in the sound that causes any synergy issues to me. All of those are great fit with it but they are all different than one another at this level of listening. The Susvara is my favorite with the Ferrum stack but that could be to it driving them properly and their overall superiority.
> 
> The LCD5 is my choice for a better overall “the one” AMP INDEPENDENT headphone but if you have the Oor then the Susvara is really the best to get for my tastes and ears.


I second this, The LCD-5 is one of the best amp independent headphones out there. That being said, if you don't plan on using EQ, the susvara is the best headphone out there if you drive it properly, and don't mind having a bit softer of a low end compared to the Focal or Audeze headphones. If you do use EQ, the the LCD-5 would be my top recommendation.


----------



## mike1953

Thanks for everyone’s suggestions. I did have the LCD-5 on my “possible” list so I will seek out a pair to listen to. I know I should try the Susvara but finding a dealer near me with a pair in stock has proven difficult. I’ll give it another go as, if I’m going to spend some serious money I should give as many options a try before committing.


----------



## mike1953

Until I decide which "totl" headphone to get any recommendations for a cheap and cheerful 'phone with good synergy with the OOR/Hypnos? One review I read mentioned Beyerdynamic DT1990 but I have no experience that of brand.


----------



## OneEyedHito

mike1953 said:


> Until I decide which "totl" headphone to get any recommendations for a cheap and cheerful 'phone with good synergy with the OOR/Hypnos? One review I read mentioned Beyerdynamic DT1990 but I have no experience that of brand.


I don’t know if I would call that headphone either cheap or cheerful. Not to be disagreeable but for music enjoyment the DT 1990 is not anywhere in the realm of choice for me it is definitely too piercing on the top end. I would say a preowned focal would be a better fit.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

mike1953 said:


> Until I decide which "totl" headphone to get any recommendations for a cheap and cheerful 'phone with good synergy with the OOR/Hypnos? One review I read mentioned Beyerdynamic DT1990 but I have no experience that of brand.


The OOR is a powerful amp, so I would suggest getting a planar headphone that can take advantage of the amp. I bet something like a Hifiman HE6k SE would be a great pairing with it.


----------



## mike1953

chargedcapacitor said:


> The OOR is a powerful amp, so I would suggest getting a planar headphone that can take advantage of the amp. I bet something like a Hifiman HE6k SE would be a great pairing with it.


I think the HE6SE is a very good call - i used to love the original HE-6


----------



## Gavin C4 (Nov 24, 2021)

MatW said:


> I am also starting to like it more and more. Currently listening with the Qutest and the LCD XC, and it sounds very good...
> 
> With IEMs I wish it were a little more silent, but overall it works well with IEMs too. I do miss a 4.4 mm port. The Chinese XLR adapter I bought broke down already, need to find an alternative.



Very reliable 4-pin XLR male (Neutrik) to 4.4mm female (Pentaconn) pigtail adapter from Effect Audio. These kinds of pigtail adapters will prevent any kind of channel imbalance or bad contact in those ultra-short adapters. Furthermore, ultra-short adapters usually have more distortions.


----------



## You Kay

GoldenOne said:


> When in bypass mode the output level should be the same (give or take a fraction of a dB) as when it is in 0dB gain mode. So if you're comparing high gain to bypass that's why. High gain uses an additional pre-amplification stage which is not used in 0dB or bypass mode.
> 
> The Soloist 3X GT actually has a fair bit less as it's 8w @ 32 ohm. So the OOR has a fair bit more.
> Though with very hard to drive cans like susvara the power spec alone (measured at 1khz) won't tell the full story. It can be a good indication of course, but how the amp performs at 1-5w etc can be unexpected.
> ...


regardless of this the point that i take away is that specifications are a mere guideline. I live in the 2 channel world but from all the accounts that I've read and heard the HE9 outperforms the gsx mini on all fronts.


----------



## You Kay

I’ve just placed an order for the Oor, without Hypsos (already too expensive for me)


----------



## Rukley

mike1953 said:


> Until I decide which "totl" headphone to get any recommendations for a cheap and cheerful 'phone with good synergy with the OOR/Hypnos? One review I read mentioned Beyerdynamic DT1990 but I have no experience that of brand.


Seems like an odd choice to spend $4000 on an amp stack to buy a $800 pair of cans. I'd just buy a cheaper stack and try out different cheaper headphones to learn what sound signature you like, then commit to a more expensive stack / cans if I were in your shoes.


----------



## You Kay

Rukley said:


> Seems like an odd choice to spend $4000 on an amp stack to buy a $800 pair of cans. I'd just buy a cheaper stack and try out different cheaper headphones to learn what sound signature you like, then commit to a more expensive stack / cans if I were in your shoes.


I disagree. In the 2 channel world it’s very common to spend considerably more on source and amplification, in fact I highly recommend it.


----------



## Rukley

You Kay said:


> I disagree. In the 2 channel world it’s very common to spend considerably more on source and amplification, in fact I highly recommend it.


Except if he doesn't know what kind of sound he wants out of a higher end headphone he may end up going in a direction that doesn't end up pairing well. 

To each their own.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

You Kay said:


> I disagree. In the 2 channel world it’s very common to spend considerably more on source and amplification, in fact I highly recommend it.


Headphones are different from the 2 channel world, by quite the margin. Diminishing returns kick in a lot sooner on headphone amps than the actual headphone. On top of that, amplification needs are very much driven by the type of headphone purchased. For instance, an OTL tube amp may work wonders with a high impedance dynamic headphone, but will probably not be the best choice for a low impedance planar headphone. At the same time, you could spend $3k on a high powered, current driven SS amp and have it drive a Focal headphone just as good as a clean, 1 watt headphone amp.

So my advice would be this: try before you buy, find a headphone you like, tonally and technically, then use the rest of your funds leveling up components.


----------



## Gavin C4

You Kay said:


> I’ve just placed an order for the Oor, without Hypsos (already too expensive for me)


You can always upgrade to the. Hypsos in the future. OOR is a very solid and future proof start. It handels a lot of headphones really well.


----------



## You Kay

Gavin C4 said:


> You can always upgrade to the. Hypsos in the future. OOR is a very solid and future proof start. It handels a lot of headphones really well.


True but I doubt I will. I have another link in my chain. My headphone amp will be connected to my Naim pre as a bypass. I’ve read from the Naim forum that this also effects the sound slightly and is not as transparent as directly out of DAC; which I wouldn’t do. So I’m happy with the Oor by itself.


----------



## You Kay

chargedcapacitor said:


> Headphones are different from the 2 channel world, by quite the margin. Diminishing returns kick in a lot sooner on headphone amps than the actual headphone. On top of that, amplification needs are very much driven by the type of headphone purchased. For instance, an OTL tube amp may work wonders with a high impedance dynamic headphone, but will probably not be the best choice for a low impedance planar headphone. At the same time, you could spend $3k on a high powered, current driven SS amp and have it drive a Focal headphone just as good as a clean, 1 watt headphone amp.
> 
> So my advice would be this: try before you buy, find a headphone you like, tonally and technically, then use the rest of your funds leveling up components.


I agree, but what I’m saying is providing the headphones are driven by the right type of amplifier I would rather have the very best amplifier and average cans than the very best cans and an average amp. Case in point beyerdynamics with a TOTL amp will sound better than an Abyss headphone with an average amp.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

You Kay said:


> I agree, but what I’m saying is providing the headphones are driven by the right type of amplifier I would rather have the very best amplifier and average cans than the very best cans and an average amp. Case in point beyerdynamics with a TOTL amp will sound better than an Abyss headphone with an average amp.


I'll have to disagree, I'll take a susvara with an A90 over a DT1990 with an OOR any day. And I think most people would agree.


----------



## You Kay

Lol fair enough. But would you take a a90 susvara over a woo wa33 and dt1990? The susvara is TOTL headphone but I’m not sure the Oor is TOTL amp


----------



## Rukley

You Kay said:


> Lol fair enough. But would you take a a90 susvara over a woo wa33 and dt1990? The susvara is TOTL headphone but I’m not sure the Oor is TOTL amp


The OOR Hypsos combo would likely be totl region for a large number of people. Its all relative to what constitutes a lot of money to you, but the amount of people willing to spend what the OOR costs probably isn't a huge number and those willing to spend more because they consider the OOR a stepping stone probably quite few. For its price the OOR is supposed to be very good.


----------



## Gavin C4

You Kay said:


> Lol fair enough. But would you take a a90 susvara over a woo wa33 and dt1990? The susvara is TOTL headphone but I’m not sure the Oor is TOTL amp



Based on my experience, the Hypsos amd OOR stack is  definitely at the level of TOTL solid State amps.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

You Kay said:


> Lol fair enough. But would you take a a90 susvara over a woo wa33 and dt1990? The susvara is TOTL headphone but I’m not sure the Oor is TOTL amp


I would take a susvara with an Atom stack over that, because I have heard a susvara with the atom stack. No matter what you do, the dt1990 will always have a heavily dampened driver with lower speed, detail, clarity, tonality.


----------



## You Kay

Susvara must be something special then. I’ve not heard it. I was under the impression unless it’s very well driven it doesn’t sound very good. I’ve heard the dt1990 the t1and dt48. If these headphones are slow in comparison I’m very intrigued by the susvara/abyss.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

MatW said:


> Congrats! I would have a serious look at the LCD 5. I have not heard it myself yet, but based on what I've read and heard from headfi buddies, it's an a awesome headphone, up there with the very best. (Esp if you don't mind EQ)


Now that I have my Susvara, I am looking for a complementary headphone that really slams.  That's the only thing missing from the Sus for me.   I am thinking that its the Abyss 1266 Phi TC, but I am going to give the LCD5 a proper listen on Saturday since I am in California for Thanksgiving visiting my parents.    Heading over to the Source AV.


----------



## You Kay

The only thing that’s worrying me is not very many people have described the Oor to slam. I will of course decide for myself when I get it. Btw I’m only referring to the Oor without Hypsos.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

mike1953 said:


> Until I decide which "totl" headphone to get any recommendations for a cheap and cheerful 'phone with good synergy with the OOR/Hypnos? One review I read mentioned Beyerdynamic DT1990 but I have no experience that of brand.


If you can't afford a Susvara now, buy a Focal Utopia.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

You Kay said:


> Lol fair enough. But would you take a a90 susvara over a woo wa33 and dt1990? The susvara is TOTL headphone but I’m not sure the Oor is TOTL amp


Are you trolling this thread?   These can't be serious questions.    I wouldn't take a DT1990 if you gave it to me for free.  The only thing I would pair it with is my trash can.


----------



## You Kay

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Are you trolling this thread?   These can't be serious questions.    I wouldn't take a DT1990 if you gave it to me for free.  The only thing I would pair it with is my trash can.


Here we go. I have an opinion that’s what forums are about. It’s ok to disagree or have different points of view


----------



## vkenz

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Are you trolling this thread?   These can't be serious questions.    I wouldn't take a DT1990 if you gave it to me for free.  The only thing I would pair it with is my trash can.


This very insulting.  DT1990 is a great headphone.


----------



## mike1953 (Nov 26, 2021)

Rukley said:


> Seems like an odd choice to spend $4000 on an amp stack to buy a $800 pair of cans. I'd just buy a cheaper stack and try out different cheaper headphones to learn what sound signature you like, then commit to a more expensive stack / cans if I were in your shoes.


To put this into context: I was thinking of getting a cheaper pair of open back cans to use to run in the Hypnos / Oor. Could just as easily have been Sundaras or Sennheiser 650’s - something low priced, decent quality to have as a “third” pair”. At the moment I’ve only got my Stellia’s which are used in my main set up - the Ferrum combo is being used in my office. I’ll probably end up getting either LCD-5’s or Utopias although I’m also considering Susvara’s.  No more “stepping stones” to audio nirvana - this is end of quest stuff for me (although I might “upgrade” the Stellia’s to DCA Stealth at some point).


----------



## You Kay

mike1953 said:


> To put this into context: I was thinking of getting a cheaper pair of open back cans to use to run in the Hypnos / Oor. Could just as easily have been Sundaras or Sennheiser 650’s - something low priced, decent quality to have as a “third” pair”. At the moment I’ve only got my Stellia’s which are used in my main set up - the Ferrum combo is being used in my office. I’ll probably end up getting either LCD-5’s or Utopias although I’m also considering Susvara’s.  No more “stepping stones” to audio nirvana - this is end of quest stuff for me (although I might “upgrade” the Stellia’s to DCA Stealth at some point).


I would say that’s a good plan. The Sundaras and the 650s do some things well. I remember really enjoying the 58x with eufonika.


----------



## You Kay

I’m really waiting on more impressions on the Oor with or without Hypsos


----------



## OneEyedHito

You Kay said:


> I’m really waiting on more impressions on the Oor with or without Hypsos


The Oor without the Hyposis is more similar to the Singxer SA-1 then it is dissimilar to it. With the Hyposis the comparison is over. Without the Hyposis I would save $1500 USD and get the Singxer again. Hope this helps!


----------



## You Kay

OneEyedHito said:


> The Oor without the Hyposis is more similar to the Singxer SA-1 then it is dissimilar to it. With the Hyposis the comparison is over. Without the Hyposis I would save $1500 USD and get the Singxer again. Hope this helps!


Really? I am surprised by this. I thought even without the Hypsos it would be a clear step above singxer, gsx Mini, flux fa10 and others.


----------



## OneEyedHito (Nov 26, 2021)

You Kay said:


> Really? I am surprised by this. I thought even without the Hypsos it would be a clear step above singxer, gsx Mini, flux fa10 and others.



@You Kay 
Really. Not to my ears. I am only speaking about sound and power. *I should add that I did the Jumper Mod on my Singxer SA-1 which opened up the power (several notches for sure) and sound stage (a notch or two).  So take this into consideration with my comments please.*  Still the Jumper Mod costs .23usd to do and doesn't push the retail price over $600.


----------



## SpeleoFool (Nov 28, 2021)

Just got my Hypsos + Oor stack (finally!).  I brought my Susvara to CANJAM SoCal and really loved this stack.  What sold me was a dead-silent noise floor with MEST MkII customs.  I bought the stack at the show and, well, there were some delays.  But the wait is over!  And, man, was it worth it!

*Unboxing*:








Packaging is excellent, FWIW!  The foam is dense and high quality; I noticed a Pelican Air 1507 has nearly perfect internal dimensions for the foam from both units; I might have to set up a travel case....

Meanwhile, a peek under the lid requires only the removal of 4 screws; looks clean and well organized.




Fortunately, the Hypsos + Oor stack fits nicely under my monitors.  I'm replacing an A90, which has been an admirable daily driver.




*Hypsos Setup*:
The menu on Hypsos is easy and pleasant to use.  The menu items have a nice "momentum" feature to the scroll that makes navigation feel a little more organic.

Setup was a breeze.  I already had the latest firmware installed, and scrolled through an ample list of known devices and selected the Ferrum Oor.  After confirming the device, a countdown started and then Hypsos powered up the Oor into standby.  Easy!



Spoiler: Hypsos Setup Images

















*First Impressions*:
I have only been listening for a couple hours, but I started with LIRIC since I've been listening to it nonstop on Violectric V280, and I was super curious to hear how Oor drives it.  All I can say is _WOW!_

I had felt that LIRIC needed a warm amp, but Oor is just all the cleanliness and clarity that LIRIC can deliver, and cleanliness and clarity are LIRIC's specialties.  I am hearing great dynamics, utterly open and unfatiguing presentation, and scarily good timbre.  I created a 3 hour playlist for LIRIC, and meant to just hit highlights to check the pairing before moving on to Susvara, but I haven't been able to break away!  V280 is a fantastic pairing for LIRIC, but this is better.

This is my new desktop reference / daily driver amp, so it's going to get plenty more time.  I'll post more impressions as I get more time with Hypsos+Oor and various headphone pairings (starting with Susvara).  But they're off to a great start!


----------



## FooFighter

Phi TC coming in soon...
Yet exited trying it with my stack


----------



## You Kay

Anybody have listening impressions of 1266 TC with Oor?


----------



## FooFighter

You Kay said:


> Anybody have listening impressions of 1266 TC with Oor?


There are people in this thread owning that combo yet, I can tell you more after Wednesday...
Before you can visit the Abyss thread and search for "Oor".
You will find posts like this one which have at least consoled me in my believe that Oor is a good partner for TC 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/post-16647879


----------



## Deceneu808

I'm more and more curious about this amp as days go by. Would headphones like ZMFs and LCD-X benefit from it ?


----------



## lucasratmundo

Deceneu808 said:


> I'm more and more curious about this amp as days go by. Would headphones like ZMFs and LCD-X benefit from it ?


I personally prefer ZMFs on tube amps. My VC sounds fine with the Oor but nothing outstanding. I haven't heard the LCD-X but the LCD-5 sounds great with the Oor.


----------



## Deceneu808

lucasratmundo said:


> I personally prefer ZMFs on tube amps. My VC sounds fine with the Oor but nothing outstanding. I haven't heard the LCD-X but the LCD-5 sounds great with the Oor.


I've got a few tube amps but curious about the general performance of this thing with a wide range of headphones


----------



## FooFighter

Just sharing a very extended Susvara review mentioning also amp synergy and going into details of different amp attributes like tonality and stage size.
Oor and Hypsos are also listed there as one of the top dogs of the category headphone amps.
Amongst the tested devices only full size speaker amps were rated better 

https://soundnews.net/headphones/full-size/the-ultimate-hifiman-susvara-review/


----------



## OneEyedHito

FooFighter said:


> Just sharing a very extended Susvara review mentioning also amp synergy and going into details of different amp attributes like tonality and stage size.
> Oor and Hypsos are also listed there as one of the top dogs of the category headphone amps.
> Amongst the tested devices only full size speaker amps were rated better
> 
> https://soundnews.net/headphones/full-size/the-ultimate-hifiman-susvara-review/


That is a 5 ⭐️ review if I’ve ever read one and I don’t mean he is giving 5 ⭐️‘s, I’m giving him 5 ⭐️‘s for his thoroughness and sharing of knowledge. Wow. That’s should stand as an example of how to do a review for all.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Nov 30, 2021)

One of the greatest strength of the Ferrum OOR Hypsos stack is the zero fatigue listening experience while maintaining very high detail and clarity in the music. This is especially good pairing with headphones like Abyss TC and Utopia where some people felt the treble region has a bit too much energy. The Ferrum OOR definitly solves the problem of any treble harshness but keeping a very accourite amount of it to maintain the details and air. The Ferrum is like adding a Cap on the treble and makes sures it does not exceed a specific level that makes you fatigue. Don’t get me wrong, the highs and treble of the Ferrum OOR is very good and has lots of air up top, it is not dark at all. It has better highs compared to A90, luxman, and schiit Mj 2. The Ferrum just controls the highs so perfectly that it makes sure nothing will sound harsh even the Utopia with Norne Silvergrade S4 that is an silver cable.


----------



## lucasratmundo

Versatility was one of the main reasons why I got the Oor. At this point, I’m really happy by how well it can drive my headphone collection (Susvara, 1266, LCD-5, Elite and D8K Pro) but I hadn’t tried pairing my small IEM collection (Odin, U12t and Anole VX) yet.

I’m happy to report that the Oor drives all my IEMs really well with no hiss. The U12t scales particularly well with the Oor.


----------



## MatW (Dec 1, 2021)

lucasratmundo said:


> Versatility was one of the main reasons why I got the Oor. At this point, I’m really happy by how well it can drive my headphone collection (Susvara, 1266, LCD-5, Elite and D8K Pro) but I hadn’t tried pairing my small IEM collection (Odin, U12t and Anole VX) yet.
> 
> I’m happy to report that the Oor drives all my IEMs really well with *no hiss*. The U12t scales particularly well with the Oor.


Not no hiss, but very low hiss in my case.. but I have bat ears... 

EDIT: do you hear absolutely *zero *difference when you unplug the cable from the OOR (without music playing obviously)? That is my definition of 'no hiss'.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

lucasratmundo said:


> Versatility was one of the main reasons why I got the Oor. At this point, I’m really happy by how well it can drive my headphone collection (Susvara, 1266, LCD-5, Elite and D8K Pro) but I hadn’t tried pairing my small IEM collection (Odin, U12t and Anole VX) yet.
> 
> I’m happy to report that the Oor drives all my IEMs really well with no hiss. The U12t scales particularly well with the Oor.


How does the bass slam/tactility differ on the oor with the susvara compared to other amps? How does it compare to the LCD-5?


----------



## You Kay

I’m curious about how the Oor/Hypsos paired with the 1266 would compare with the Xiaudio formula S/Powerman which I didn’t buy as it was far too expensive for me.


----------



## FooFighter (Dec 1, 2021)

chargedcapacitor said:


> How does the bass slam/tactility differ on the oor with the susvara compared to other amps? How does it compare to the LCD-5?


A part of that question is answered in the before mentioned extensive Susvara review with 13 amps being compared including tables for different attributes like tonality, stage, etc.
In that review Oor is one of the top dogs of head amps with dynamics of 9 out of 10 in that ranking specs 
You get more only out of speaker amps and there only of selected models
Here the ratings  for the Ferrum stack (10 is max)
Resolution/Details: 8
Transient Response: 9
Dynamics: 9
Tonality: 8.5
Power/Control: 9
Stage size: 8
Overall score: 8.58

As mentioned before in this thread, Oor is not raising a bass shelf, it's neutral with a hint of warmth and maybe a slight treble roll of at the very top to avoid listening fatigue.

Regarding slam: Susvara can slam hard with the right tracks also on OOR like Infected Mushrooms etc.
Instead of tweaking the signature through amping there's a very interesting way described in the Susvara thread using custom ear pads like from ZMF Eikon.
Several people tested that yet with success saying you can make Susvara more LCD-5 like through that but with still better technicalities.
I will test that myself too.
Earpad and mounting rings are on the way...


----------



## Gavin C4

I leave the amp on for 24hrs to warm up, I am not sure if its placebo or not. But it sounded very slightly warmer and more pleasant compared to not warming up.


----------



## Gavin C4

You Kay said:


> I’m curious about how the Oor/Hypsos paired with the 1266 would compare with the Xiaudio formula S/Powerman which I didn’t buy as it was far too expensive for me.



Xi audio is not an balanced amp, if you have true balanced dac, better use an amp with balanced circuit. There are some comments on the Xi in the thread multiple pages ago.


----------



## You Kay

Gavin C4 said:


> Xi audio is not an balanced amp, if you have true balanced dac, better use an amp with balanced circuit. There are some comments on the Xi in the thread multiple pages ago.


I don’t use a balanced Dac.


----------



## You Kay

Gavin C4 said:


> I leave the amp on for 24hrs to warm up, I am not sure if its placebo or not. But it sounded very slightly warmer and more pleasant compared to not warming up.





Gavin C4 said:


> I leave the amp on for 24hrs to warm up, I am not sure if its placebo or not. But it sounded very slightly warmer and more pleasant compared to not warming up.


Not placebo, all amps will sound much better if left on rather than continuously cycling on and off.


----------



## dudeX (Dec 2, 2021)

Aside from Vana Ltd, are there US retailers who sell the OOR/Hypsos combo?
Seems like there's a TN shop who's in the top of the google search and headphones.com. FYI.


----------



## phonyx

MatW said:


> Yes, the gain switch works fine on the OOR. Switches failing, both the gain switch and RCA/XLR source switch, is a known issue on the first batch.
> 
> I have not played with the voltage on the Hypsos, as I don't know by how much this can be adjusted safely, and I am not sure about the benefits.


Matt, is the affected serial number range known?


----------



## MatW

phonyx said:


> Matt, is the affected serial number range known?


No, I don't think so. You can ask HEM about the serial numbers. They found out about it quite quickly, so I think the number of devices with this issue is low.


----------



## phonyx (Dec 3, 2021)

Long odds I know. But has anyone that’s heard one of these also heard a Cavalli Liquid Gold (the real OG ones)? I’d love to know how they compared.


----------



## You Kay

Also I’ve only just discovered that the cable connecting the two units must be purchased separately.


----------



## MatW

You Kay said:


> Also I’ve only just discovered that the cable connecting the two units must be purchased separately.


It can be bought separately, yes. But if you order the OOR + Hypsos stack, the cable is included. At least, it was with mine, and would not make sense if it were not.


----------



## OneEyedHito

MatW said:


> It can be bought separately, yes. But if you order the OOR + Hypsos stack, the cable is included. At least, it was with mine, and would not make sense if it were not.


My dealer charged me $130USD for the cable but I believe as you said Mat that yes it is included in the $3190 USD price from Ferrum.


----------



## FooFighter

OneEyedHito said:


> My dealer charged me $130USD for the cable but I believe as you said Mat that yes it is included in the $3190 USD price from Ferrum.


My dealer charged me extra too though I got the bundle


----------



## MatW (Dec 3, 2021)

FooFighter said:


> My dealer charged me extra too though I got the bundle


Mmm. I ordered direct from HEM.

EDIT: I understand now that your total price was comparable to mine, actually a little lower. The HEM price includes the cable, dealer prices apparently not but are lower to reflect that.


----------



## rmsanger

OneEyedHito said:


> That is a 5 ⭐️ review if I’ve ever read one and I don’t mean he is giving 5 ⭐️‘s, I’m giving him 5 ⭐️‘s for his thoroughness and sharing of knowledge. Wow. That’s should stand as an example of how to do a review for all.



Sandu really is one of the best... I like his yt reviews but for me I really to prefer his written reviews when I'm interested in the product.  Yes I don't read them all but the ones I do like I read the full review and appreciate the thoroughness.   

Some people may prefer reviewers with more emphasis on measurements and objectiveness but I actually find his opinion and subjective-ness to be far more valuable.  Especially when he mentions frequency response of Sus not changing between amps but actual SQ having major changes.  I find that to be incredibly true based upon my own experiences.


----------



## OneEyedHito

rmsanger said:


> Sandu really is one of the best... I like his yt reviews but for me I really to prefer his written reviews when I'm interested in the product.  Yes I don't read them all but the ones I do like I read the full review and appreciate the thoroughness.
> 
> Some people may prefer reviewers with more emphasis on measurements and objectiveness but I actually find his opinion and subjective-ness to be far more valuable.  Especially when he mentions frequency response of Sus not changing between amps but actual SQ having major changes.  I find that to be incredibly true based upon my own experiences.


*"Especially when he mentions frequency response of Sus not changing between amps but actual SQ having major changes.  I find that to be incredibly true based upon my own experiences."  *

This line you and I quoted is exactly the type of details and information that folks should be paying attention to more and why I appreciated his written review so much!


----------



## You Kay

MatW said:


> It can be bought separately, yes. But if you order the OOR + Hypsos stack, the cable is included. At least, it was with mine, and would not make sense if it were





OneEyedHito said:


> *"Especially when he mentions frequency response of Sus not changing between amps but actual SQ having major changes.  I find that to be incredibly true based upon my own experiences."  *
> 
> This line you and I quoted is exactly the type of details and information that folks should be paying attention to more and why I appreciated his written review so much!


I’m so tired of this generation of measuring sine waves then trying to base a subjective view on the measurements. I don’t care how much they try to convince me otherwise. Their opinion is flawed. We are physical life form not a machine. We respond to our impulses/senses far more effectively than we credit ourselves with. I’m more than happy with my subjective view on anything rather than a measurement rig.


----------



## Delta9K

FooFighter said:


> My dealer charged me extra too though I got the bundle


Bastards


----------



## FooFighter

Yep, but on the other hand they need to survive too.
Actually got an overall good price though I was charged extra 😉


----------



## FooFighter

PS: After some noob starting issues with Pad adjustments I can begin to say that TC on OOR / Hypsos is sounding great.
Thx to @MatW for kick-start support!
That industrial style piece of arts is needing almost as much juice as Susvara but does have a completely different presentation.
Wide, spatial, engaging, thumping but airy at the same time.
Dynamics and detail at TOTL level.
I am coming more and more to the conclusion that the Ferrum stack combined with Susvara and TC can be my personal endgame (for a while) 😉


----------



## Delta9K

Not the correct thread, but tagging on to @FooFighter's last post - the 1266 TC is an exceptional piece. I'm surprised how well it is sounding on my current main headphone setup. I have one on loan and I hope to be able to audition a Susvara as well, soon. Too early to decide on the headphone yet, but definitely looking at the  OOR+Hypsos potentially as an amplifier for whichever headphone I choose.  Not that it makes sonic difference, but the OOR+Hypsos would be a slick aesthetic match with my Holo Spring 3 KTE, or a May...


----------



## GiBGUN

Trying to decide between HPA V550 and the Oor+Hypsos. Has anyone had any experience with both? Is one a clear winner?


----------



## phonyx (Dec 4, 2021)

GiBGUN said:


> Trying to decide between HPA V550 and the Oor+Hypsos. Has anyone had any experience with both? Is one a clear winner?



Great question. The Ferrum is quite a but more expensive than the 550, and a few hundred different for the 550 pro. Interested to hear about this comparison too. There’s a few in the same ballpark.

Sparkos Aries 
Benchmark HPA4
GSX Mark II
V550
V550 pro
OOR+Hypsos

Auris HA-2SF
ZMF Pendant 

Etc

I really want to just sit down and try everything 😅


----------



## phonyx

greyforest said:


> I would suggest anyone put up their buying order on the oor , I just went to the store to pick up my door, and out of the box....It makes no sound. At all, and later it suddenly start to function on and off randomly..... Talk about quality control....



oh dear, this isn't looking good. I have lost significant confidence in the product reading about the failures and apparent QC issues. Other amp threads are people enjoying theirs with the very occasional once-off issue. This thread, only 30 pages with a few samples in it and also the GoldenEar page, has owners reporting issues. Sounds like its not mature enough as a product to be released. Might be lucky and be fine out of the box, but what about in 6-12 months? 



greyforest said:


> I was driving stealth balanced with it. For the time I could listening to it(with hypsos).  Did some comparison with gsx mini
> Oor is very detailed, and clean. But soundstage is smaller, lacks bit of dynamics and energy.
> It sounds like the amp section of hugo tt2 but improved a bit.
> 
> ...



Have you contiued to listen to the OOR since you wrote this? Has it opened up more as can happen after the amp settles down with some 'burn in' and if so what are your impressions?


----------



## You Kay

I wouldn’t worry. There is a healthy warranty


----------



## FractalSound

You Kay said:


> I wouldn’t worry. There is a healthy warranty


What's even better than a healthy warranty is never having the need of using it    So what is the warranty on the Ferrum stack?


----------



## GiBGUN

Argh...Torn between the Oor+Hypsos stack and the HPA V550.


----------



## You Kay

FractalSound said:


> What's even better than a healthy warranty is never having the need of using it    So what is the warranty on the Ferrum stack?


I agree but I’m just saying if you’re one of the unlucky few with issues there is a warranty of 3 years (I’m told)


----------



## You Kay

Argh...Torn between the Oor+Hypsos stack and the HPA V550

When in doubt pick the one that you like the look of 😉


----------



## phonyx

You Kay said:


> I wouldn’t worry. There is a healthy warranty



I’d rather not have to! 



FractalSound said:


> What's even better than a healthy warranty is never having the need of using it    So what is the warranty on the Ferrum stack?



If they (HEM) want the unit back I would have to ship from australia to Poland  Might be a lot less concerning if you are from Europe. 



GiBGUN said:


> Argh...Torn between the Oor+Hypsos stack and the HPA V550.



The Vio 550? If so me too. I will hopefully get to hear one this week.


----------



## Tubewin

Gavin C4 said:


> I got both A90 and OOR Hypsos Stack, The OOR just beat the A90 in every aspect. Width and depth of the stage, bass detail, clarity, separation. OOR wins basically in every aspect, except the lack of the 4.4 mm jack on the OOR. In your situation, the Hypsos is really a value purchase because you can use the Hypsos with your Burson and your OOR. The Hypsos is miles ahead of a standard DC power brick, especially when you are using it to power an Analog signal.


Can the hypsos power the grand tourer to its full potential when the Burson site lists the GT’s power consumption at 90w idle? The hypsos is rated at 6A 80w.


----------



## MatW

phonyx said:


> If they (HEM) want the unit back I would have to ship from australia to Poland  Might be a lot less concerning if you are from Europe.


True, but if you buy direct from HEM at least you'll know that you're getting a unit without the soldering issues of the first batch. Since they are now hand soldering the switches on the OOR.

If you plan to get it through a dealer, I would get the serial number double checked with HEM.


----------



## Gavin C4

Tubewin said:


> Can the hypsos power the grand tourer to its full potential when the Burson site lists the GT’s power consumption at 90w idle? The hypsos is rated at 6A 80w.



I would suggest you ask HEM Ferrum about their supported devices and specs for the Ferrum Hypsos power supply. They response really fast through their facebook or email.


----------



## FooFighter (Dec 6, 2021)

Interesting impressions in the GT thread regarding GT characteristics vs OOR and even GT powered by HYPSOS, e.g 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bur...re-amp-w-sub-out-10w-xlr.959796/post-16695344


----------



## phonyx

MatW said:


> True, but if you buy direct from HEM at least you'll know that you're getting a unit without the soldering issues of the first batch. Since they are now hand soldering the switches on the OOR.
> 
> If you plan to get it through a dealer, I would get the serial number double checked with HEM.


 
I can’t make buying decisions based on likelihood of something having manufacturing faults and ease of return  
Too much competition in the market for that idea to get off the ground.


----------



## krude

phonyx said:


> I can’t make buying decisions based on likelihood of something having manufacturing faults and ease of return
> Too much competition in the market for that idea to get off the ground.


I hear you, I'm having similar dilemmas, that's why I never bought into totl Audeze for example. The problem is the higher end and more specialized the gear, the smaller the manufacturer usually, typically a few man band of enthusiasts, so QA issues seem to be unavoidable 😐


----------



## FooFighter (Dec 6, 2021)

krude said:


> I hear you, I'm having similar dilemmas, that's why I never bought into totl Audeze for example. The problem is the higher end and more specialized the gear, the smaller the manufacturer usually, typically a few man band of enthusiasts, so QA issues seem to be unavoidable 😐


your impressions about the GT vs OOR in the GT thread are very interesting.
I'am coming to similar conclusions that the stage width appears a bit compromised  comparing OOR/Hypsos against directly running TC out of my M30.
Depth, detail, clarity, control is all superior on the Ferrum stack.
Running my Susvaras out of this stack I don't feel being compromised as the Susvara presentation is more intimate compared to TC.
One of the key characteristics of TC on the other hand is its huge stage presentation which seems to be narrowed on OOR compared to other setups as I understand.


----------



## krude

FooFighter said:


> your impressions about the GT vs OOR in the GT thread are very interesting.
> I'am coming to similar conclusions that the stage width appears a bit compromised  comparing OOR/Hypsos against directly running TC out of my M30.
> Depth, detail, clarity, control is all superior on the Ferrum stack.
> Running my Susvaras out of this stack I don't feel being compromised as the Susvara presentation is more intimate compared to TC.
> One of the key characteristics of TC on the other hand is its huge stage presentation which seems to be narrowed on OOR compared to other setups as I understand.


Exactly, that's one of the things I index for hard with the TC, the wide spacious presentation with skull shattering bass ... and on the Ferrum stack it sounds pretty much like Utopia when it comes to staging ... it is a great experience, but not exactly what I'm looking for.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Dec 6, 2021)

FooFighter said:


> Interesting impressions in the GT thread regarding GT characteristics vs OOR and even GT powered by HYPSOS, e.g
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bur...re-amp-w-sub-out-10w-xlr.959796/post-16695344


A fan that is a moving part will aways generate vibration and noise. Its silly to claim not hearing any fan noise from a PC fan.

A standard OEM DC powerbrick does not affect raw power and performance and measurement of an amp, bit it definitly affect the sound quality especially in terms of clarity. 

Ferrum Hypsos linear power supply will definitly have a upper hand when plugged into device with analogue section.


----------



## FooFighter

Gavin C4 said:


> A fan that is a moving part will aways generate vibration and noise. Its silly to claim not hearing any fan noise from a PC fan.


That's really the key drawback that kept me from preordering GT.
The stage width topic is though still bothering me with the newly acquired TC, currently tending to listening TC out of my underpowered M30...


----------



## Gavin C4

FooFighter said:


> That's really the key drawback that kept me from preordering GT.
> The stage width topic is though still bothering me with the newly acquired TC, currently tending to listening TC out of my underpowered M30...



You felt the Hypsos andOOR combo have less width in sound stage compared to other amps?


----------



## FooFighter (Dec 6, 2021)

Gavin C4 said:


> You felt the Hypsos andOOR combo have less width in sound stage compared to other amps?


correct, currently only having M30 here though.
Memories of other amps like A90, C9 and Flux FA-10 are blurred plus my TC is new for me but A-Bing with my current setup is showing the difference obviously.
As mentioned on other aspects like depth, definition, tonality OOR/Hypsos wins hands down


----------



## krude

FooFighter said:


> correct, currently only having M30 here though.
> Memories of other amps like A90, C9 and Flux FA-10 are blurred plus my TC is new for me but A-Bing with my current setup is showing the difference obviously.
> As mentioned on other aspects like depth, definition, tonality OOR/Hypsos wins hands down


The only other dual mono design (which I think is a vital part for getting maximum staging) that I know of is the Volot ... anyone aware of any other dual mono hp amps with sufficient power / quality ?


----------



## FooFighter (Dec 6, 2021)

krude said:


> The only other dual mono design (which I think is a vital part for getting maximum staging) that I know of is the Volot ... anyone aware of any other dual mono hp amps with sufficient power / quality ?


not that I am aware of, regardless of dual mono design the recommended amps (for non-sensitive headphones) performing above Volot and OOR/Hypsos are either costing a fortune or going into the speaker amps direction, such as AHB2


----------



## FooFighter (Dec 6, 2021)

Just to add some impressions here so it's not sounding  like OOR is not a good match at all for TC.
Tonality wise OOR and TC sound superb and playing around with different preamplifiers you can get really different also hard hitting! presentations.
That's an advantage of my M30, which does have 3 differerent (pre) amplifiers built in: Direct DAC-attenuation, Solid State (Transistor) buffer or Tube buffer.
Now listening to Rock/Independant/Metal-Playlists in Tube mode and also OOR is hitting hard.
For such kind of music with distorting e-guitars and shrieking voice singers, a (in comparison) more veiled, less detailed but more full bodied tube presentation is more than compensated by OORs and TCs clarity.
For other recordings such as Diana Krall, etc I prefer the solid state preamp modes to really dive into all the details of breathing noises, moving of fingers on instruments, etc.
The nice feature of TC is that you can change the spatial and bass presentation by adjusting its metal frame while listening to the music.
I was at first also wondering how such a metal beast headphone can be worn and enjoyed but am now appreciating its features.

As usual recordings matter a lot, i.e. the stage information to all sides must be in the recording, otherwise the amp won't help (besides applying DSP features such as some devices like IFI are providing).
When listening to well recorded live recordings also TC on OOR will provide a great sense of space and live feeling which is better than what I ve heard from any other headphone before, especially the perceived depth and definition are really upper class.

In general I have also found myself enjoying the devices more once I am engaging myself to one device-headphone for one listening session as changing between different setups in-between is puzzling my mind and prevents appreciating the individual setup (e.g. here Susvara would have a better timbre/voice presentation or here TC would have a better stage presentation is not helping for enjoying the music at that moment  )


----------



## krude

I'm still evaluating Hypsos + Oor, and I come to similar conclusions, Oor is displaying space exactly as it is recorded, so if parts of the recording have no "space", they appear close etc. It just seems that H+O is one of the "just the facts" amps, which is awesome by the way, the amount of details I get on the TC is insane. In every single track I listen to there are bits I've not heard before I swear. For the first time in my life I'm taking notes as I listen 😂


----------



## phonyx

FooFighter said:


> Just to add some impressions here so it's not sounding  like OOR is not a good match at all for TC.
> Tonality wise OOR and TC sound superb and playing around with different preamplifiers you can get really different also hard hitting! presentations.
> That's an advantage of my M30, which does have 3 differerent (pre) amplifiers built in: Direct DAC-attenuation, Solid State (Transistor) buffer or Tube buffer.
> Now listening to Rock/Independant/Metal-Playlists in Tube mode and also OOR is hitting hard.
> ...



That’s a really good observation. When I had my uptone JS2 + HugoTT and HE1K and WA5 and Matrix X Sabre etc I was listening to my gear more than I was listening to music. 

I felt silly with it all after a while went into a sort of ‘Monastery for Head-Fi’ and sold everything except my Denon D7000’s and bought a low end AudioGD DAC/Amp which I’ve had for a couple of years now. Music either suits them well or doesn’t. I learned to appreciate what I had and be grateful for the little things. I’ve refocused and am now trying to find a great amp to be the centrepiece of a simple setup and would ideally have one pair of headphones as well. There’s a lot to be said for simplicity!!


----------



## krude

Questions for Hypsos + Oor owners, how would you describe the sound difference between 22v and 30v? How does it affect the stage and structure of the sound?


----------



## FooFighter (Dec 6, 2021)

I think I ve posted that before: I've personally not recognized an audible change of sound signature with different voltage settings but what I believe to perceive is a smoother and warmer signature once Oor is running for several hours - I believe that was also stated before in this thread.
Also I believe to recognize a different signature running different gain levels like smoother and more forgiving signature with mid gain and volume set to 75% than a more dynamic, detailed and unforgiving signature on high gain and 45% with Susvara (might be biased as these are subjective perceptions and not measured and exactly volume matched).
No audible differences regarding stage size btw


----------



## paradoxper

krude said:


> The only other dual mono design (which I think is a vital part for getting maximum staging) that I know of is the Volot ... anyone aware of any other dual mono hp amps with sufficient power / quality ?


There are enough. Simaudio 430HA, Eleven Audio Formula S, Kevin Gilmore CFA3.

Bakoon AMP-13R > Enleum AMP-23R has some of the best staging for headamps.


----------



## phonyx

paradoxper said:


> There are enough. Simaudio 430HA, Eleven Audio Formula S, Kevin Gilmore CFA3.
> 
> Bakoon AMP-13R > Enleum AMP-23R has some of the best staging for headamps.



Bakoon AMP-13R looks like an integrated HIFI amp? Is this not the case?


----------



## paradoxper

phonyx said:


> Bakoon AMP-13R looks like an integrated HIFI amp? Is this not the case?


Are we to split the hairs of marketing? 

I rather we split the hairs of dual mono, balanced, single-ended, fully differential as anything actually meaningful.


----------



## cplus44

I’ve been reading that some people say it powers Susvara loudly with a lot of headroom left over but other people say that it only plays loudly at max volume on high gain with not a lot of headroom. So which is actually correct?


----------



## FooFighter (Dec 7, 2021)

cplus44 said:


> I’ve been reading that some people say it powers Susvara loudly with a lot of headroom left over but other people say that it only plays loudly at max volume on high gain with not a lot of headroom. So which is actually correct?


I have a source with 5.2V output balanced and having the volume at around 45-55% 
It will depend on the output of your source.
I think 2V would lead to listening at around 75% which wouldn't satisfy me.
In short, I won't recommend to run Oor with sources < 3V for Susvara, TC needs a tad less juice but close to Susvara maybe 15% less volume dial position


----------



## krude

cplus44 said:


> I’ve been reading that some people say it powers Susvara loudly with a lot of headroom left over but other people say that it only plays loudly at max volume on high gain with not a lot of headroom. So which is actually correct?


Same, getting my 1266 really loud at 50 high gain. It is a powerful amp, no issues with dynamics what so ever, it kicks really hard.


----------



## You Kay

How’s the bass with the 1266?


----------



## FooFighter

You Kay said:


> How’s the bass with the 1266?


Outstanding deep and thumping but not due to OOR adding a bass shelf but because of TC. Due to TCs ability to be adjusted using the flexible metal frame you can personalize the bass amount / presentation.
If OOR is adding anything here it is detail, clarity and texture over all frequencies


----------



## FooFighter (Dec 8, 2021)

Guys, forget my comments on OOR and TC is leading to a small stage.
Am experimenting with different sources and players currently.
Now feeding some Android phone with UApp streaming Tidal into my DAC connected to Oor.
What I am hearing there is so awesome that I am speechless, spacious, deep, timbre, alluring textured bass.
That's pure bliss.

I ve planned using TC for Rollercoaster party music but now sitting here and listening to playlists usually meant for Susvara and TC with Oor is rendering them in a stunning way where you are teleported onto the stage next to the musicians and can just spot and feel all the vocals and instruments around you with a pinpoint accuracy with an extraordinary feeling of the room where the music is playing.
Also the vocals are much better than I first expected being spoiled by Susvara.
TC has more clarity and reveiling character but is showing timbre and decay nevertheless and an unbeatable live feeling


----------



## phonyx

FooFighter said:


> Guys, forget my comments on OOR and TC is leading to a small stage.
> Am experimenting with different sources and players currently.
> Now feeding some Android phone with UApp streaming Tidal into my DAC connected to Oor.
> What I am hearing there is so awesome that I am speechless, spacious, deep, timbre, alluring textured bass.
> ...


Ok so how many whiskeys have you had!? 😂

What was the source when you felt the soundstage was narrow? What DAC are you using?


----------



## cplus44

Can the OOR + Hypsos power my beats by Dre to their full potential? I’m a little worried even on high gain with max volume it won’t be enough.


----------



## OneEyedHito

cplus44 said:


> Can the OOR + Hypsos power my beats by Dre to their full potential? I’m a little worried even on high gain with max volume it won’t be enough.


It won’t.  It’s been mentioned on pages 3 & 4 in this thread already. Has to do with impedance / current mismatches.


----------



## cplus44

OneEyedHito said:


> It won’t.  It’s been mentioned on pages 3 & 4 in this thread already. Has to do with impedance / current mismatches.


I was joking around lol but it would power sundaras properly? I am planning to getting the OOR and Hyposos before getting the susvaras as currently I’m using the topping e30/l30 with sundaras. I just wouldn’t want to get it first if it would just sit around not being used until I have the amount to buy susvaras. Unless you guys think I should get the Susvaras and the OOR+Hyposos together as a dealer I’m talking to has both which I get get for around $14,000 CAD together.


----------



## FractalSound

cplus44 said:


> I was joking around lol but it would power sundaras properly? I am planning to getting the OOR and Hyposos before getting the susvaras as currently I’m using the topping e30/l30 with sundaras. I just wouldn’t want to get it first if it would just sit around not being used until I have the amount to buy susvaras. Unless you guys think I should get the Susvaras and the OOR+Hyposos together as a dealer I’m talking to has both which I get get for around $14,000 CAD together.


you may want to consider another dealer.  Susvara MRSP 6000 USD, OOR+Hyposos MRSP 3190 USD.  USD/CAD 1.27.  so altogether 6000 + 3190 USD is 11,671 CAD.


----------



## FractalSound

FractalSound said:


> you may want to consider another dealer.  Susvara MRSP 6000 USD, OOR+Hyposos MRSP 3190 USD.  USD/CAD 1.27.  so altogether 6000 + 3190 USD is 11,671 CAD.


oh... sorry I forgot you guys have very high sales tax...  for 14,000 CAD total... the sales tax has to be like 20%?


----------



## Rukley

cplus44 said:


> I was joking around lol but it would power sundaras properly? I am planning to getting the OOR and Hyposos before getting the susvaras as currently I’m using the topping e30/l30 with sundaras. I just wouldn’t want to get it first if it would just sit around not being used until I have the amount to buy susvaras. Unless you guys think I should get the Susvaras and the OOR+Hyposos together as a dealer I’m talking to has both which I get get for around $14,000 CAD together.


Yeah this dealer is robbing you blind. I'm in Canada and have been quoted around $4k CAD from dealers for the OOR Hypsos combo


----------



## cplus44

FractalSound said:


> oh... sorry I forgot you guys have very high sales tax...  for 14,000 CAD total... the sales tax has to be like 20%?


You’re right I just checked I don’t know where the hell I got $14000 from it’s actually 12,600 that’s with 13% taxes.


----------



## cplus44 (Dec 8, 2021)

Rukley said:


> Yeah this dealer is robbing you blind. I'm in Canada and have been quoted around $4k CAD from dealers for the OOR Hypsos combo


Is that before taxes? He’s saying $4600. With taxes. Can you pm me a dealer you’ve found that offers it for around $4k I checked Ferrum website for dealers and could only find that one listed.


----------



## FooFighter (Dec 9, 2021)

phonyx said:


> Ok so how many whiskeys have you had!? 😂
> 
> What was the source when you felt the soundstage was narrow? What DAC are you using?


I only have my dual AKM M30 right now but that thing shouldn't be underestimated as it's well implemented and does have a decent preamp.
Remember my suggestion about decent preamping needed for better headroom on OOR with demanding cans.
There are some factors to be considered for my impressions.
- TC is brand new for me and I am going through a steep lurning curve regarding fit and adjustment.
All other headphones before were just plug and play 
- different streamers matter (have experienced that before this year playing from streamers like Bluesound Node 2i, N130, Ifi Zen Stream, Shanling M8 connected to different DACs like Denafrips Pontus II - all sounded different though the DAC and playing app and tracks were the same!) Those days I had Denon AH-D9200, LCD-2 and Traillii as headphones 
- player app (UAPP has always sounded more revealing, clearer to me compared to stock Tidal on all of my DAPs I ve owned before also in bit perfect mode) and that perception can also support the sense of space for accordingly frequencies 
- brain burn in matters alot! (I feel that my baseline for what I considerered bright, neutral etc has changed since listening to Susvara and now TC. So listening longer to a special tuned headphone is moving my preference baseline. In that regards the time of the day also plays a role like listening after a long working day before sleep or fresh at the morning where the mind isn't yet saturated with inputs from the whole day)
Of course some whiskey will change that perception too, afraid my wife has been hiding everything after we got our daughter - am now like permanently abstinent 😉


----------



## Rukley

cplus44 said:


> Is that before taxes? He’s saying $4600. With taxes. Can you pm me a dealer you’ve found that offers it for around $4k I checked Ferrum website for dealers and could only find that one listed.


I'm working right now so I'll have to dig through my email when I'm off and see if I still have the quote, it was from a few months ago and I since decided to go in a different direction but I'll have a look and if I can find it I'll shoot you a message.


----------



## krude

FooFighter said:


> I only have my dual AKM M30 right now but that thing shouldn't be underestimated as it's well implemented and does have a decent preamp.
> Remember my suggestion about decent preamping needed for better headroom on OOR with demanding cans.
> There are some factors to be considered for my impressions.
> - TC is brand new for me and I am going through a steep lurning curve regarding fit and adjustment.
> ...


Nice, looks like you're having fun  TC is my daily for the past few months, took me solid 2 weeks to get my head around it, but now it's perfect. Been evaluating Hypsos + Oor for a week, decided to pull the trigger and I should be getting my set tomorrow 🤞 been seriously impressed so far. I'll post some detailed imoressions in a few days.

Also might be getting Susvara once again ... covid is good for saving cash 😂


----------



## OneEyedHito

cplus44 said:


> Is that before taxes? He’s saying $4600. With taxes. Can you pm me a dealer you’ve found that offers it for around $4k I checked Ferrum website for dealers and could only find that one listed.


PM


----------



## boomography

Add me to the list of folks with issues. 
Picked up a OOR/Hypsos yesterday and cannot get the OOR to output any sound at all.


----------



## FooFighter (Dec 10, 2021)

Bummer, sorry for that!
They should provide you a free exchange.
Have you tried
-  both RCA and XLR?
- OOR without Hypsos 
- checked the pass-through switch at the back? (Be careful with the volume of your source if you set it to pass through though)


----------



## boomography

FooFighter said:


> Bummer, sorry for that!
> They should provide you a free exchange.
> Have you tried
> -  both RCA and XLR?
> ...



Local dealer is replacing for me next week when they get new shipment in. I have tried all of the above without any success.


----------



## phonyx

That’s really unfortunate. Hope they sort out your replacement quickly and it works without any issues.


----------



## MatW

boomography said:


> Local dealer is replacing for me next week when they get new shipment in. I have tried all of the above without any success.


You should be all set by next week then. And welcome to headfi.  Let's hope that you will be able to report positive experiences in the future.


----------



## FractalSound

boomography said:


> Local dealer is replacing for me next week when they get new shipment in. I have tried all of the above without any success.



Wow!  Does Hyposos report any output power/current at all?  My Hyposos shows 14.4W and 0.6A when Oor is connected and in idle


----------



## boomography

FractalSound said:


> Wow!  Does Hyposos report any output power/current at all?  My Hyposos shows 14.4W and 0.6A when Oor is connected and in idle


It showed something, I don’t remember the exact numbers but I’ll take a look when I get home and report.


----------



## MatW

FractalSound said:


> Wow!  Does Hyposos report any output power/current at all?  My Hyposos shows 14.4W and 0.6A when Oor is connected and in idle


Most likely it's the switches issue in the OOR. No issue with the Hypsos, I suspect.


----------



## FractalSound

MatW said:


> The point here is that the OOR does not seem to be able to drive the Susvara to play very loud, if it's fed with a 3v input. Despite all the power it has available. It's loud enough, certainly for me, but I was able to turn the volume up to 100% in high gain without it getting super loud, probably not over 90 dB. With a fairly quiet song, I should add.
> 
> To emphasize again, it's not an issue for me at all, also because I usually pair the OOR with less demanding cans, but I can imagine for Susvara owners (with <3v source) that they'd feel better with more room left on the volume dial.


Sorry for chiming in late... just got my loaner yesterday. I can relate/confirm that Oor is not super powerful for Susvara. understand that some has to do with input power from DAC/Preamp but either way I was at high gain, vol 2-3 o'clock.   SQ is solid, but I'm trying to figure out if it's good enough to justify the price point of Oor+h.  Not to mention the number of quality issues reported on this thread.


----------



## boomography

FractalSound said:


> Wow!  Does Hyposos report any output power/current at all?  My Hyposos shows 14.4W and 0.6A when Oor is connected and in idle


Here's what it's reporting... I don't think there's an issue with the Hypsos.


----------



## FractalSound (Dec 10, 2021)

boomography said:


> Here's what it's reporting... I don't think there's an issue with the Hypsos.



Not the Hypsos.  I was just trying to see if the Oor was drawing current at all.  [Edit] Your pic shows that your Oor is drawing 0.5A current. So at least it's alive and is trying to work 

... and you are not the first one to report Oor of no sound right out of the box... I was going through the thread @greyforest had the same experience


----------



## cplus44

FractalSound said:


> Sorry for chiming in late... just got my loaner yesterday. I can relate/confirm that Oor is not super powerful for Susvara. understand that some has to do with input power from DAC/Preamp but either way I was at high gain, vol 2-3 o'clock.   SQ is solid, but I'm trying to figure out if it's good enough to justify the price point of Oor+h.  Not to mention the number of quality issues reported on this thread.


Ugh.. right when I thought I found the perfect combo. I’m going to have to wait it out or go with something else like the Enleum AMP-23R


----------



## FooFighter

Hmm, the quality issues are a bummer agreed.
Still I am thinking that OOR / Hypsos are quite competitive looking at what e.g some 13R or 23R costs...
- if you are getting a good price (around 3k Eur in Europe for the whole bundle)
- if you are having no quality issues 
- if you are having a source ideally playing with >= 4.8V

With something like a Holo Audio Spring you will never get into trouble not having enough volume even for Susvara but I agree if you don't have/want such a powerful source I'd also look elsewhere personally


----------



## Tubewin

After hearing some of the qc issues people are having with the Oor, I'm glad I purchased the Hypsos on its own. Hypsos makes my amp (GT) sound ridiculously good.


----------



## FooFighter

If GT was approved by the German importer earlier, I would have considered that one too.
They will need to test a loaner unit in terms of safety compliance for the German market and still haven't received any unit to test.
Importing directly will introduce immense import fees and here we are again with different vendors / models being more competitive for their native country markets 🙄


----------



## FractalSound

FooFighter said:


> Hmm, the quality issues are a bummer agreed.
> Still I am thinking that OOR / Hypsos are quite competitive looking at what e.g some 13R or 23R costs...
> - if you are getting a good price (around 3k Eur in Europe for the whole bundle)
> - if you are having no quality issues
> ...



Isn't 3K Eur for the bundle MRSP?  like buying straight from their website? I know MRSP in USD is 3190.  a good price has to be lower than MRSP

I've been listening to the stack for about 24 hrs now.  There is no doubt that oor+h is solid.  But I've heard iCAN Signature which is at least as good if not better and has a lower price point. 

How about GT?  check out @Tubewin's post 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bur...re-amp-w-sub-out-10w-xlr.959796/post-16705954

What's up with that?

I've never listened to 13R or 23R so I can't say.  but how about iCAN Signature, GT, GSX-mini? How does oor+h compare to them?  SQ+price wise


----------



## FooFighter (Dec 11, 2021)

FractalSound said:


> Isn't 3K Eur for the bundle MRSP?  like buying straight from their website? I know MRSP in USD is 3190.  a good price has to be lower than MRSP
> 
> I've been listening to the stack for about 24 hrs now.  There is no doubt that oor+h is solid.  But I've heard iCAN Signature which is at least as good if not better and has a lower price point.
> 
> ...


I don't have a massive high driving power amp experience tbh.
I just got a good offer below the MRSP, read and asked in numerous threads about amps in that price region and after owning and selling Flux FA-10 I wanted to try something else just for another experience plus needing a small footprint on my working desk.
Ferrum checked all these points and I ve not looked back since owning it - thank god.
I ve also considered IFI Ican Pro before but was reported about shutdown issues  running high loads and Xbass turned on with Susvara.
That plus it's comparably larger footprint were the decision factors for me to stay away from it.
So for me in that price region I find following alternatives interesting 
- Volot 
- Benchmark AHB2 (too large for my desk plus speaker TAPs required)
- GT (fan noise, can be an issue or not, dunno but I am sitting really close to my amp at my working desk)

Generally I found this  Susvara amp review which was mentioned before in this thread very solid and it shows that Volot and OOR are some of the top dogs of pure headphone amps before moving to some selected massive sized speaker amps.
https://soundnews.net/headphones/full-size/the-ultimate-hifiman-susvara-review/

But of course there are more amps as in that review like the before mentioned 13R / 23R but way more expensive...


----------



## krude

FractalSound said:


> Isn't 3K Eur for the bundle MRSP?  like buying straight from their website? I know MRSP in USD is 3190.  a good price has to be lower than MRSP
> 
> I've been listening to the stack for about 24 hrs now.  There is no doubt that oor+h is solid.  But I've heard iCAN Signature which is at least as good if not better and has a lower price point.
> 
> ...


What DAC are you running into Oor + Hypsos to power the Susvara please? What amp would be more powerful than Oor with your setup that you have experience with?


----------



## MatW

The switches issue is annoying but should only be present in the first batch. HEM was very responsive and repaired my unit quickly, it took exactly one week, with shipping back and forth to Poland. Since then I have been very satisfied with the combo. It drives all my headphones and IEMs, and sounds great to me. The size is perfect, and I like the looks too. More than happy with it.


----------



## KKNAYANA

FractalSound said:


> Isn't 3K Eur for the bundle MRSP?  like buying straight from their website? I know MRSP in USD is 3190.  a good price has to be lower than MRSP
> 
> I've been listening to the stack for about 24 hrs now.  There is no doubt that oor+h is solid.  But I've heard iCAN Signature which is at least as good if not better and has a lower price point.
> 
> ...


I currently use Susvara with GSX-mini+Chord Hugo2, and I am planning to buy Oor+Hypsos for an upgrade. IMHO, GSX-mini drives Susvara to fairly sufficient volumes at 60~80% of volume knob. It also has some pleasant warmth in the sound signature. However in some music that demand some punch in the bass or music that sound weaker than others, GSX-mini falls short. I tested my Susvara on an Oor+Hypsos demo unit, and was very satisfied with its strong output (almost twice of GSX-mini), and very clean, balanced sound. But that pleasant warmth of GSX-mini isn't there in Oor. I think it is difficult to have best of both worlds..


----------



## krude

KKNAYANA said:


> I currently use Susvara with GSX-mini+Chord Hugo2, and I am planning to buy Oor+Hypsos for an upgrade. IMHO, GSX-mini drives Susvara to fairly sufficient volumes at 60~80% of volume knob. It also has some pleasant warmth in the sound signature. However in some music that demand some punch in the bass or music that sound weaker than others, GSX-mini falls short. I tested my Susvara on an Oor+Hypsos demo unit, and was very satisfied with its strong output (almost twice of GSX-mini), and very clean, balanced sound. But that pleasant warmth of GSX-mini isn't there in Oor. I think it is difficult to have best of both worlds..


Have you tried putting your Hugo 2 on the red filter setting and H+O on 22v? That should make the sound a lot warmer and a bit wet.


----------



## KKNAYANA

krude said:


> Have you tried putting your Hugo 2 on the red filter setting and H+O on 22v? That should make the sound a lot warmer and a bit wet.


No, I haven't. Just on the Hugo 2 default white filter setting and default voltage on Hypsos. I'll try your suggested settings when I get mine. Thank you


----------



## krude (Dec 11, 2021)

Ok, got my Hypsos + Oor, first impressions time (actually bought it because I had an evaluation set for a week before)

O+H party trick is the fact that it let's you choose from very wide voltage to power Oor (22v to 30v). Most amps usually can take +/- 1 to 2v from their nominal voltage. Oor seems to be built to take a lot more.

I'm evaluating H+O with 1266 TC, EE Odin (also decided to get a Susvara demonstrator in ... my 2nd approach to this set). I will talk about the extremes at 22v and 30v, you can walk from 22 to 30 in 0.1 increments and settle on what you want, or switch between extremes. I go for extremes at the moment to enjoy different signatures, also for different sets. The impressions come from Apple Lossless | HQ Player -> Holo May L2 -> Oor + Hypsos, all fully balanced.

TC (my main daily) :
- 22v - soft and spacious sound. Really good clarity and ample bass. No shout, really smooth sound (not easy on TC as it's a spiky headphone by nature), spacious and deep stage.
- 30v - a lot sharper presenation, midrange and top end become ultra crisp with insane levels of texture information. The sound stage can shrink depending on the recording. If recordings (electroncia mainly) have issues with how reverbs were applied it throws imaging off, because it is ultra precise. For example parts of drums can appear really close because the producer didn't apply appropriate reverbs to blend them into the space of the mix (I've made this mistake myself many times ... that's how I know). Most systems don't reproduce transients that quick so on most monitoring setup you will never hear this. When the mixing is done properly by the book (which in this regard is a lot easier for acoustic recording because you don't have to fake the space with effects by hand) the space sounds amazing, its fully appropriate and ultra detailed. Sound at 30v can become shouty and tiring after some time, but it does provide most micro-details I find.

TC tested on high gain with volume at noon. Plenty of power, amazing macro and micro dynamics and detail. Loads of headroom.

EE Odin :
22v - again, softer but very detailed and spacious presentation.
30v - not as much shout because Odin is tuned in a very neutral and non offensive way. The sound at 30v can get a bit tiresome after some time because of how many details it pumps out at any one point.

Odin is famous for picking up noise from the chain very well. It is noisy on most systems I've tried. On Oor the only noise it picked up was electromagnetic noise from my environment (old block of flats), when I moved it around the room it became dead quiet on low gain. That's the best performace I've heard so far from an amp with this much power.

Will test Utopia soon.

Story so far, H+O is very clean, very detailed. I hear new nuances in every track I listen to, even though I prefer the 22v more open and a bit less detailed sound. It is easily the most detailed and cleanest amp I've heard. Super impressed with it.


----------



## FooFighter (Dec 11, 2021)

@krude 
Thx for these extensive impressions.
You motivated me to play around more with the voltages in Hypsos.
A bit off-topic:
Can you please share your source setup with Holo Audio May playing Apple Music?
I am thinking about getting a Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE but afraid of the rabbit hole of additional dedicated Streamer, reclocker, galvanic isolation of USB input, etc 
Or are you running directly out of a Mac and are having no issues?
IOS isn't supported on the May, is it?
I am playing Apple Music mostly from my IPad via camera connection kit to my DAC as this is by nature bit perfect in contrast to MacOS always being limited to the preset sample rate set in the Audio Mixer.

Are you planning to keep both GT and Ferrum stack now?


----------



## krude (Dec 11, 2021)

FooFighter said:


> @krude
> Thx for these extensive impressions.
> You motivated me to play around more with the voltages in Hypsos.
> A bit off-topic:
> ...


I have a heretic setup 🤣 you could say. May L2 has a very high quality USB implementation, check Goldensounds review for more details on that. Software wise I use AudioHijack on OSX to route and resample. Im setting the output manually to 2x sampling frequency which in most cases is 44.1 x 2. I also use EQ and metering in AudioHijack. Its not a purist setup but it's the best I found so far.

I decided to return the GT for various reasons. It needs stating that it is a great amp for the right person.


----------



## FooFighter (Dec 11, 2021)

Will check that software - it seems to be able to adopt the sample rate according to the song played in Apple Music, that's what prevented me from using my MacBook for Apple Music so far.
A pity though that many high end DACs don't support IOS, I remember T&A was the same.
I suppose it's due to custom driver development for the custom DACs vs standard drivers for the of-the-shelf delta sigma DACs


----------



## FractalSound (Dec 15, 2021)

FooFighter said:


> I don't have a massive high driving power amp experience tbh.
> I just got a good offer below the MRSP, read and asked in numerous threads about amps in that price region and after owning and selling Flux FA-10 I wanted to try something else just for another experience plus needing a small footprint on my working desk.
> Ferrum checked all these points and I ve not looked back since owning it - thank god.
> I ve also considered IFI Ican Pro before but was reported about shutdown issues  running high loads and Xbass turned on with Susvara.
> ...


I'm with you!  If you get a good price then it's golden. Let's not forget Sound News highly recommended oor+h.  oor+h is ranked highest of all some 22 headphone amps.  Volot has the same high score but like you said it's way too big.

https://soundnews.net/headphones/full-size/the-ultimate-hifiman-susvara-review/

*22. Ferrum OOR + Hypsos PS*

One of the best headphone amplifiers, specially tailored for Hifiman Susvara. It has an amazing tonality, sounds lush, alive and very engaging, hits hard and fully preserves dynamics. Has a lot of power to spare and it was specifically designed with Susvara in mind. It sounds smaller than Flux Labs Volot, but it improves dynamics and transient response. If you don’t like experimenting with speaker amplifiers, this is good as it gets. I’m beyond impressed by this pairing.


Resolution/Details: 8
Transient Response: 9
Dynamics: 9
Tonality: 8.5
Power/Control: 9
Stage size: 8
Overall score: 8.58

So both your reasoning and conclusion are right on.

We talked about drawbacks already
1. QA issues
2. Lack of power from my use case (susvara)
    a. Volume to the max with high gain still not too loud for Susvara
    b. GT draws 67W from Hypsos, Oor draws 14/15 w


----------



## FractalSound (Dec 11, 2021)

krude said:


> What DAC are you running into Oor + Hypsos to power the Susvara please? What amp would be more powerful than Oor with your setup that you have experience with?



I'm very new here so I don't think I'm qualified to recommend anything..  So far I've only used A90, iCAN Signature and oor+h.  I have RME ADI-2 DAC FS.  RME is a company making equipment for the professionals... people who put music tracks together commercially.  If you read their users manual and watch their youtube videos, they really take a rather practical view about the whole audio performance thing.  They don't want to spend time and energy on diminishing returns or as they say "to improve audio distortions that can only be heard by expensive tools"  I feel that they know what they are doing and they treat their customers in a straightforward and honest way.  It's very important to a noob like me.  Something I'm trying to get a sense of with oor+h

With that said I also want to try Gustard X26 Pro because Soundnews highly recommended it. 

In terms of more powerful Amps....  like I said oor+h is not very powerful and I don't know why.  If GT can draw 67W from Hypsos why oor only draws 14-15W?  Maybe I don't know how to use it.   iCAN signature feels much more powerful for me.

Now you can try to jack up input power to oor with a more powerful DAC or add a preamp between DAC and oor. Then we really get to the technical side I'm not very familiar with.  In other words, I don't know what the linear range for oor.  and I shouldn't have too


----------



## krude (Dec 11, 2021)

FractalSound said:


> I'm very new here so I don't think I'm qualified to recommend anything..  So far I've only used A90, iCAN Signature and oor+h.  I have RME ADI-2 DAC FS.  RME is a company making equipment for the professionals... people who put music tracks together commercially.  If you read their users manual and watch their youtube video, they really take a rather practical view about the whole audio performance thing.  They don't want to spend time and energy on diminishing returns or as they say "to improve audio distortions that can only be heard by expensive tools"  I feel that they know what they are doing and they treat their customers in a straightforward and honest way.  It's very important to a noob like me.  Something I'm trying to get a sense of with oor+h
> 
> With that said I also want to try Gustard X26 Pro because Soundnews highly recommended it.
> 
> ...


Ok, interesting, I know RME well from my studio days. It is indeed a benchmark company in the studio space. I think I even had their interface once.

Here are some facts :
1. Oor was developed with Susvara as the main reference in their design and testing, so it absolutely has to have enough to drive it well I would think.
2. Soundnews rated it as one of the best pairings for Susvara, pretty much on par with best speaker amps in his comparison, so I would think he was happy.
3. Oor is rated at 9.5W per channel, Soloist 3XP at 8W, Soloist 3GT at 10W, and from what I've seen it has similar power to the GT in my stack.
4. RME is known for having A TON of settings in their gear, and I bet your DAC is no exception, so I would think that probably you don't have the output configured for high performance. I had a quick look at RME forums at it looks like there is a bunch of settings for each output, including output gain, levels, EQ and all sorts.
5. It doesn't matter how much power an amp draws, it matters how it uses the power. A lot of power goes to waste in certain amp designs. It's not bad, it's not good, it just means that power draw doesn't necessarily have much corelation with power output.

I would say that your DAC settings probably need tweaking. From my calculations you should be getting hearing loss levels with Susvara at around 1-2 o clock high gain, with normal listening around 11-12. I should get a pair in this week so I'll let you know how it works on my stack. Also make sure you're running balanced with Susvara, single ended won't cut it on this stack.


----------



## FractalSound

krude said:


> Ok, interesting, I know RME well from my studio days. It is indeed a benchmark company in the studio space. I think I even had their interface once.
> 
> Here are some facts :
> 1. Oor was developed with Susvara as the main reference in their design and testing, so it absolutely has to have enough to drive it well I would think.
> ...


Agree with all your points. and thanks for taking the time to explain.  

I think your calculation is close to what I'm experiencing.  I actually don't have any problem with the SQ as I may appear to  

I guess I was going into this thing with too much expectations (OOR, the only headphone amplifier with a soul, join the revolution etc... )  So I was expecting to be wowed. Although I was able to find the SQ very solid, so far I have failed to see the uniqueness of the stack.  Like @GoldenOne has discussed, nowadays most of the amps sound decent.


----------



## krude

FractalSound said:


> Agree with all your points. and thanks for taking the time to explain.
> 
> I think your calculation is close to what I'm experiencing.  I actually don't have any problem with the SQ as I may appear to
> 
> I guess I was going into this thing with too much expectations (OOR, the only headphone amplifier with a soul, join the revolution etc... )  So I was expecting to be wowed. Although I was able to find the SQ very solid, so far I have failed to see the uniqueness of the stack.  Like @GoldenOne has discussed, nowadays most of the amps sound decent.


I think you should also be getting really good power, dynamics etc. with lots of headroom without ever thinking if the amp has enough for Susvara ... but I will check this out first hand soon. Anyway, I would say Oor is a very crisp, clean and detailed amp, but it doesn't mean it's the sound everyone will enjoy the most. Maybe try something with more character like Soloist 3XP or GT. From my experience you loose a bit of detail but you get a lot more "character" which may be exatly what you're looking for. I have my Cayin HA6a with Utopia for character duties xD


----------



## krude

H+O Utopia impressions time. 

Low gain 12 o clock has loads of volume and headroom for Utopia, zero noise, amp is dead silent.

22v - again smooth and enjoyable sound, wider than usual sound stage and very deep with really good imaging and great detail. Soloist GT I had the pleasure to test is even wider, but not as deep and imaging is not as precise. All in all a really good pairing.
30v -  again sound gets really sharp with a hint of midrange shout, but that depends on the recording. This feels like pushing Utopia to their peak performance details wise. 1266 TC on those settings felt a bit more resolving, but Utopia is no slouch. Microdetails gallore, reverb tails, sound reflections, all the good stuff.

Again I prefer 22v softer sound for regular listening. Utopia doesn't cease to amaze me, it scales so so well. On this stack it's pretty much on par with 1266 TC in all regards. 

I didn't mention one important thing in my previous post, Oor sounds very natural, in contrast to some other amps out there. Especially upper midrange and treble is seriously impressive. All cymbals, string instruments etc. sound amazingly real. No glare, no shimmer, just natural and crips sound. This is especially highlighted on Utopia which also has a natural but crips presentation. Cymbals (especially jazz) on this pairing are some of the tastiest cymbals I've heard


----------



## cplus44

Do you have to be careful with what you set the V to? For example if you set the V to 30V on certain headphones can you damage it or does it not matter?


----------



## krude

cplus44 said:


> Do you have to be careful with what you set the V to? For example if you set the V to 30V on certain headphones can you damage it or does it not matter?


Nah Im pretty sure it just influences the internals of the amp.


----------



## FooFighter

The voltage doesn't impact the output volume for headphones, so no danger for those.
The voltage range is preset for a range of amps and you can trust what Ferrum specified for their own product so I wouldn't worry.
I've read in some review about a potentially shorter live spam of OOR if always fed with 30V, don't know if that is true


----------



## krude

FooFighter said:


> The voltage doesn't impact the output volume for headphones, so no danger for those.
> The voltage range is preset for a range of amps and you can trust what Ferrum specified for their own product so I wouldn't worry.
> I've read in some review about a potentially shorter live spam of OOR if always fed with 30V, don't know if that is true


Could be but I doubt Ferrum would have a preset that can harm the amp. Ill probably settle somewhere around 26v mark and 22v long term.


----------



## FooFighter

Krude, I find your impressions spot on.
Especially about the characteristics of the stage and the detailed but natural signature.
As I wrote before switching between my M30 the OOR stage seems to be a bit more narrow but if you then listen more closely you recognize that it's deeper, the response is tighter and the instruments sound more real.

You need to listen longer and feed good quality recordings with spatial information and dynamics to appreciate the full OOR capabilities.

With TC and Susvara I am feeling that I am getting to the limits of what these can provide and am currently only thinking about upgrading my source midterm to get a more engaging and organic presentation than my Shanling M30 dual AKM implementation.


----------



## FooFighter (Dec 11, 2021)

Coming back to the topic of possible DAC pairings of OOR I am trying to push myself to wait for the Ferrum DAC/streamer to finish and be rolled out.
Nevertheless I have started creating a list of possible DAC/streamers that might fit OOR/Hyosos in terms of size for stacking them up (remember my small footprint requirements) and listed the DAC / preamp output voltage specs.
I've listed only the XLR voltages as I recommend using OOR balanced at least for Susvara / TC.
Personally I'd call anything > 4V acceptable, anything > 4,8V ideal if you want to have more headroom for Susvara / TC + opt to apply additional software equalising requiring additional volume again.
I haven't listened to any of these, so don't call this a list of good synergy DACs, just as a starting point for my own investigations.

Ferrum OOR measurements: 8.6 x 8.1 x 2.0 inch / 21.7 x 20.6 x 5 cm

- Mytek Brooklyn Bridge: 20,6 x 4,4 x 21,8 cm (should be the closest to the Ferrum stack size)
     XLR: 9,75V RMS @ 0 dBFS

- T&A DAC 8 DSD: 9,0 x 27 x 27 cm
     XLR: 5,0 Veff / 22 Ohm

- Denafrips ARES II: 21,5 x 23 x 4,5 cm
     XLR: 4.0Vrms, 1250 Ω

- M2Tech Young Mk IV DAC
    XLR: 5Vrms or 10Vrms

- Chord Hugo TT2: 23.5 x 5.2 x 23.8cm
    Output Hi gain (Ph/XLR) 8.5V / 17V
    Output Lo gain (Ph/XLR) 3V / 6V
    Output DAC (Ph/XLR) 2.5V / 5V

In terms of my desire for trying out pairings sound wise this list would be bigger but unfortunately I cannot fit some rack sized equipment comfortably on my limited desk.
Otherwise I'd love to try the likes of Holo Audio May / Spring 3 KTE / ROCKNA Wavelight, etc.


----------



## krude

FooFighter said:


> Coming back to the topic of possible DAC pairings of OOR I am trying to push myself to wait for the Ferrum DAC/streamer to finish and be rolled out.
> Nevertheless I have started creating a list of possible DAC/streamers that might fit OOR/Hyosos in terms of size for stacking them up (remember my small footprint requirements) and listed the DAC / preamp output voltage specs.
> I've listed only the XLR voltages as I recommend using OOR balanced at least for Susvara / TC.
> Personally I'd call anything > 4V acceptable, anything > 4,8V ideal if you want to have more headroom for Susvara / TC + opt to apply additional software equalising requiring additional volume again.
> ...


TT2 gets my vote


----------



## MatW

krude said:


> TT2 gets my vote


It's good (I owned it) but kind of a waste of the amp stage, when paired with the OOR.


----------



## FooFighter (Dec 11, 2021)

MatW said:


> It's good (I owned it) but kind of a waste of the amp stage, when paired with the OOR.


yep, preamp stage would suffice but unfortunately no Chord model in between TT2 and Qutest and as you know Qutest wouldn't satisfy my wish for enough headroom with Susvara with its 3 V RCA or a preamp needs to be inserted which would be again too much footprint for my ideal final stack.

In terms of footprint and functionality the Mytek Brooklyn Bridge (II announced to come out in December) pretty much nails it with Roon support, MQA, high voltage XLR outputs but SQ wise I think that a similarly priced used Chord device or Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE will still be better...


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

MatW said:


> It's good (I owned it) but kind of a waste of the amp stage, when paired with the OOR.


True.   Now that I have the Ampsandsound Rockwell and it pairs so well with the Susvara, not sure if I need the Ferrum Orr anymore.


----------



## MatW

FooFighter said:


> yep, preamp stage would suffice but unfortunately no Chord model in between TT2 and Qutest and as you know Qutest wouldn't satisfy my wish for enough headroom with Susvara with its 3 V RCA or a preamp needs to be inserted which would be again too much footprint for my ideal final stack


I think the Qutest will provide enough power in most cases for Susvara. With TT2 you're paying three times the price. Maybe a Hugo 2? But you know my position..😊


----------



## alekc (Dec 11, 2021)

FooFighter said:


> Coming back to the topic of possible DAC pairings of OOR I am trying to push myself to wait for the Ferrum DAC/streamer to finish and be rolled out.
> Nevertheless I have started creating a list of possible DAC/streamers that might fit OOR/Hyosos in terms of size for stacking them up (remember my small footprint requirements) and listed the DAC / preamp output voltage specs.
> I've listed only the XLR voltages as I recommend using OOR balanced at least for Susvara / TC.
> Personally I'd call anything > 4V acceptable, anything > 4,8V ideal if you want to have more headroom for Susvara / TC + opt to apply additional software equalising requiring additional volume again.
> ...


@FooFighter I'm running Chord Hugo TT2 out of AuroraSound HEADA and I can't think of better amp pairing honestly speaking unless you want to drive some truly power hungry cans. As for Wavelight I've been also been listening to it using HEADA, but keep in mind that Wavelight shows isn't true potential on speaker systems IMHO. Wavelight - due to its filters - requires a really transparent amp, same case with TT2. I guess you can pair Wavelight with any amp and be quite happy about it as long as you like smooth sound. Probably some dynamics and sound stage or details retrieval can be worst if paired with wrong amp, but the sound will still be pleasant and musical. 

When TT2 is run without upsampling (either M Scaler nor software based like HQP or Audirvana) you do not want to add sterile amp since the sound may become too dry, at the same time you need an amp that really beats TT2 amp section while not adding (too much) distortion.


----------



## FooFighter

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> True.   Now that I have the Ampsandsound Rockwell and it pairs so well with the Susvara, not sure if I need the Ferrum Orr anymore.


beautiful device!
on paper it looks like weaker with less wattage but wattage isn't everything for Susvara, is it?
Size is also more rack sized as I see


----------



## FooFighter

I wouldn't pay like 5k bucks without getting a return option or really a multiple consolation by people who paired such a device with OOR and Hypsos and Susvara and TC and said it's good 

So anyway I am just dreaming about my next update but can be a happy camper with my current setup in the meantime


----------



## alekc

FooFighter said:


> In terms of footprint and functionality the Mytek Brooklyn Bridge (II announced to come out in December) pretty much nails it with Roon support, MQA, high voltage XLR outputs but SQ wise I think that a similarly priced used Chord device or Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE will still be better...


@FooFighter when Mytek Brooklyn Bridge II will see the daylight it may be awesome AIO proposal IMHO. Really looking forward to it. 

I have a Mytek Brooklyn Bridge and I love it. While it is less musical that Chord Hugo TT2 and Rockna Wavelight and has sometimes a bit more fatiguing sound signature than Wavelight it still beats both those dacs in terms of functionality and it plays perfectly well with my upsampling CD transport through SPIDIF. IMHO great dac for critical listening of records with really great headamp section. The only drawback is a need of special cable for xlr connection.


----------



## You Kay

I would suggest Oor Hypsos owners to site the Hypsos to the left and the Oor amp to the right. 

This moves the head unit away from the toroidal transformer which should give a small improvement on sound. 

Secondly it’s already been mentioned but the units should be left on and not cycled on & off. (True of any gear). 

Stacking should be avoided. My reason for stating this is I feel some people may not understand or think it makes any difference whatsoever. Having done some careful listening with power supply and head unit with my Naim gear I have noticed improvements using this method. Naim call it Brain (head units) and Braun (power amps or power supply)


----------



## Tubewin

How hot is the Hypsos getting for you guys? Mine is getting pretty hot. Not hot enough where I can't leave my hands on it, but almost there.


----------



## FooFighter

Tubewin said:


> How hot is the Hypsos getting for you guys? Mine is getting pretty hot. Not hot enough where I can't leave my hands on it, but almost there.


Hmm, will need to really test that out but as far as I remember it's getting warm like don't know shoes from inside  after wearing but nothing compared to my former Shanling M8 DAP which is using some graphene heat sink patent to distribute all the heat to the chassis.
I recognize though that the OOR warmth is also felt on the volume wheel a bit but it didn't disturb me so far - maybe a tradeoff due to the small footprint...


----------



## MatW (Dec 13, 2021)

Tubewin said:


> How hot is the Hypsos getting for you guys? Mine is getting pretty hot. Not hot enough where I can't leave my hands on it, but almost there.


I believe it in my case it is mainly the OOR that feels warm after a while, not the Hypsos so much. I'll check tonight.

Edit: confirmed.


----------



## Tubewin

I am drawing close to 70 watts from it, so that could be why as well.


----------



## FooFighter

now just reading correctly that you meant the HYPSOS and not the OOR.
Will need to check that but HYPSOS never appeared warm to the touch when changing voltage in-between at least when touching its button, as OOR is standing on top I am usually not touching the top of it anyway


----------



## phonyx

You Kay said:


> I would suggest Oor Hypsos owners to site the Hypsos to the left and the Oor amp to the right.
> 
> This moves the head unit away from the toroidal transformer which should give a small improvement on sound.
> 
> ...



Headamp also advised against stacking the GSX amp on the PSU chassis


----------



## phonyx

Tubewin said:


> I am drawing close to 70 watts from it, so that could be why as well.



You’re Burson GT guy aren’t you? That’s almost maximum supply current / voltage of the Hypsos, i would expect it to be quite warm.


----------



## FooFighter

So running for some hours OOR is shoe-from-inside-warm, Hypsos is feeling like it got warmth from Oor but otherwise hardly handwarm only at the middle of the surface running Hypsos with 24V


----------



## Tubewin (Dec 12, 2021)

phonyx said:


> You’re Burson GT guy aren’t you? That’s almost maximum supply current / voltage of the Hypsos, i would expect it to be quite warm.


Yeah, it was getting fairly warm, didn't know if it would effect longevity of the product. Thank you though.


----------



## Tubewin

FooFighter said:


> So running for some hours OOR is shoe-from-inside-warm, Hypsos is feeling like it got warmth from Oor but otherwise hardly handwarm only at the middle of the surface running Hypsos with 24V


Thanks for checking. It seems to get especially warm on the lid where the toroidal transformer is.


----------



## krude

Tubewin said:


> Thanks for checking. It seems to get especially warm on the lid where the toroidal transformer is.


Hypsos will give out more heat as it gives out more power. I would keep it in an open space if possible so it can dissipate it easily. When I was testing with the GT it was getting fairly warm, not as hot as my Soloist 3xp you could fry eggs on xD also check out the bottom of the GT after some time, mine had some spots that got fairly hot as well. Nothing I would worry about tho.

Btw. I'm investing in power conditioning after the chat we had 😂


----------



## krude

2 more observations aboyt my H+O stack.

1. I have relatively rubbish power in the flat where I am now. When I set Hypsos to 22v it sometimes drops to 21.9v ... when you turn Oor off, wait a bit and then try to turn it on it won't power on until it gets at least 22v, so if Hypsos stays on 21.9v Oor won't power on. I'm pretty sure this is because my power lines are rubbish, I am investing in power conditioning at the moment. Simple fix is to set Hypsos to 22.1, then it never goes below at least at my place.

2. TC seem to sound a bit smoother on medium gain ... this is only my impression. This set is a struggle to get smooth but detailed, I swear lol it's a very fine line.


----------



## FooFighter

I 2nd the impression of a tad smoother sound on Medium Gain for both TC and Susvara.
Am mostly on High Gain though for the full experience 😉
Interesting to read the difference of 0.1V, cause I have the same behavior.
If I set Hypsos to 24V, I am getting usually 23.9V and need to specify 24.1V in order to get 24V at the end.
I was wondering if it is related to my better higher diameter after sales power cable, haven't compared the stock cable yet


----------



## Ranathum

Does Ferrum OOR without HYPSOS a better choice for DCA Stealth than Topping A90?


----------



## krude

Ranathum said:


> Does Ferrum OOR without HYPSOS a better choice for DCA Stealth than Topping A90?


Just tested Oor without Hypsos, it becomes a lot more soft, loses a lot of the stage, extension and micro dynamic. Pretty much it becomes half of the amp that it is with Hypsos and loses it's main trademark, ultra clean, precise and holographic presentation. I would say not worth it if you're not planning to get Hypsos for it at some point. Also no idea about Stealth or A90 pairing, just talking Hypsos and Oor in isloation.


----------



## OneEyedHito

Ranathum said:


> Does Ferrum OOR without HYPSOS a better choice for DCA Stealth than Topping A90?


One of the Amps I referenced in reply to you on the Stealth thread was the Ferrum Oor & Hypsos.


----------



## Menkau-ra

krude said:


> Just tested Oor without Hypsos, it becomes a lot more soft, loses a lot of the stage, extension and micro dynamic. Pretty much it becomes half of the amp that it is with Hypsos and loses it's main trademark, ultra clean, precise and holographic presentation. I would say not worth it if you're not planning to get Hypsos for it at some point. Also no idea about Stealth or A90 pairing, just talking Hypsos and Oor in isloation.


How much power does Oor have without Hypsos? Can you still drive Susvara?


----------



## krude

Menkau-ra said:


> How much power does Oor have without Hypsos? Can you still drive Susvara?


Same power, but it loses a lot of what makes it a great amp in the first place i.e. clarity, speed, top end extension etc.


----------



## Menkau-ra

krude said:


> Same power, but it loses a lot of what makes it a great amp in the first place i.e. clarity, speed, top end extension etc.


I am getting HE6se V2, I’ve read that they are baby Susvara. And I was thinking to pair them with Oor but without Hypsos at the beginning. And if I like the sound then get Hypsos.


----------



## krude

Menkau-ra said:


> I am getting HE6se V2, I’ve read that they are baby Susvara. And I was thinking to pair them with Oor but without Hypsos at the beginning. And if I like the sound then get Hypsos.


Fair enough, but not sure if HE6se will benefit much from such an expensive amp. If you plan to go up with your sets then sure. H+O is a totl setup, but to get the most from it you will need totl sets. You probably will end up with a better system if you get something like Empyrean and a cheap source like Micro iDSD BL or Hugo2


----------



## Tubewin

Anyone know power supplies comparable to the Hypsos? Something that can push 120 watts and 5a.


----------



## rmsanger

Menkau-ra said:


> I am getting HE6se V2, I’ve read that they are baby Susvara. And I was thinking to pair them with Oor but without Hypsos at the beginning. And if I like the sound then get Hypsos.



Yes the HE6 sev2 will scale with incremental power and quality of power.  Many people use full blow power amps and run them off speaker taps.   Whether the baby susvara term is accurate is highly subjective (IMO).   Also beware the adorama specials are great but there is a high degree of unit variation from a QC perspective.  Stuck drivers and others have been reported.   So perhaps do some research on the outstanding issues people report and assess your unit while in the return period.


----------



## krude (Dec 13, 2021)

I discovered something with setting voltage for Oor on Hypsos today ... it's not as easy as lower volatge = smoother sound and higher voltage equals faster, sharper sound ... there is a lot more to it. Today I went back to nominal 24v and the amp is so smooth, almost like the top end is rolled off (which actually works really well with 1266 TC) and the bass is really powerful. On 22.1v I was on recently the top end is a lot more shrill ...

... so take what I said before with a grain of salt, the sound can change a lot, especially the top end smoothness when I change the voltage settings. I need to experiment a lot more before I can say something sensible about it. Enjoying the nomianal 24v at the moment.


----------



## dstarr3

What kind of DACs are people pairing with their Oor/Hypsos?


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## Gavin C4 (Dec 14, 2021)

dstarr3 said:


> What kind of DACs are people pairing with their Oor/Hypsos?








One of my friends who bought the OOR and Hypsos with me together uses the Holo May DAC with the OOR Hypsos. They share the same color scheme black and bronze. Perfect color matching. Furthermore, both the Holo May and Ferrum OOR Hypsos are two box solutions with the power supply box separated.

My DAC AMP combo with Ferrum see signature.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Dec 14, 2021)

Ranathum said:


> Does Ferrum OOR without HYPSOS a better choice for DCA Stealth than Topping A90?







It is highly recommended to get the full OOR Hypsos stack over the Topping A90. They are two different realms. You will definitely be more satisfied with the Ferrum than the A90. Not even in 1 / 14,000,605 multiverse that I will get the A90 over OOR.


----------



## You Kay

dstarr3 said:


> What kind of DACs are people pairing with their Oor/Hypsos?


My DAC is still being built

SW1X DAC 3 Balanced with 2 upgrades, part silver wiring board and transformers.


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## You Kay (Dec 14, 2021)

Gavin C4 said:


> One of my friends who bought the OOR and Hypsos with me together uses the Holo May DAC with the OOR Hypsos. They share the same color scheme black and bronze. Perfect color matching. Furthermore, both the Holo May and Ferrum OOR Hypsos are two box solutions with the power supply box separated.
> 
> My DAC AMP combo with Ferrum see signature.


You’ve got some very nice gear. Excuse me for saying but if it were me I would site each component on an individual shelf of a quality hifi rack. Even side by side is effective instead of stacking. The way it has been stacked is compromising the sound quality.


----------



## OneEyedHito

I have the Ferrum Kit combined with the Spring 3 KTE and it is a great match sonically.  I agree with Kay to not stack these pieces they get warm to the touch side by side after several hours on so stacking for me would be too much heat so close to me not to mention how it might affect the equipment.


----------



## XVampireX

OneEyedHito said:


> I have the Ferrum Kit combined with the Spring 3 KTE and it is a great match sonically.  I agree with Kay to not stack these pieces they get warm to the touch side by side after several hours on so stacking for me would be too much heat so close to me not to mention how it might affect the equipment.



I like this pic, for sure


----------



## FractalSound

OneEyedHito said:


> I have the Ferrum Kit combined with the Spring 3 KTE and it is a great match sonically.  I agree with Kay to not stack these pieces they get warm to the touch side by side after several hours on so stacking for me would be too much heat so close to me not to mention how it might affect the equipment.


Great pic!  What's up with the signature at the bottom? Are you selling it as a poster?


----------



## OneEyedHito

FractalSound said:


> Great pic!  What's up with the signature at the bottom? Are you selling it as a poster?


Ha, no  I put that on all of my pics because I have had folks use my pics to sell stuff in the past (not in here but on other sales platforms and hobbies). It offers a bit of a disincentive to that as well as keeps me in good practice.


----------



## FractalSound

OneEyedHito said:


> Ha, no  I put that on all of my pics because I have had folks use my pics to sell stuff in the past (not in here but on other sales platforms and hobbies). It offers a bit of a disincentive to that as well as keeps me in good practice.


once again, testament of how good your pics are!


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## You Kay (Dec 15, 2021)

I had previously said that I wouldn’t go for the Hypsos but I got a good deal on it so I bought one. Surprisingly it arrived before the Oor which I had ordered two weeks prior. 

Anyway I haven’t set it up yet but I’m very impressed by the packaging and build quality of the Ferrum Hypsos. The pictures do not do it justice. Very sexy gear. It’s a very heavy unit for the size. I wasn’t expecting that at all. 

Anyway considering some users have reported issues and although this doesn’t prove anything, I just wanted to state that it doesn’t seem like this is anything but a very well built piece of equipment and I’m confident about the reliability.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Dec 14, 2021)

You Kay said:


> I has previously said that I wouldn’t go for the Hypsos but I got a good deal on it so I bought one. Surprisingly it arrived before the Oor which I had ordered two weeks prior.
> 
> Anyway I haven’t set it up yet but I’m very impressed by the packaging and build quality of the Ferrum Hypsos. The pictures do not do it justice. Very sexy gear. It’s a very heavy unit for the size. I wasn’t expecting that at all.
> 
> Anyway considering some users have reported issues and although this doesn’t prove anything, I just wanted to state that it doesn’t seem like this is anything but a very well built piece of equipment and I’m confident about the reliability.



Grats! After trying so many amps, I can say the Hypsos OOR is truly worth it. Wait until you play music through the stack, you will be even more surprised.


----------



## MatW

You Kay said:


> I has previously said that I wouldn’t go for the Hypsos but I got a good deal on it so I bought one. Surprisingly it arrived before the Oor which I had ordered two weeks prior.
> 
> Anyway I haven’t set it up yet but I’m very impressed by the packaging and build quality of the Ferrum Hypsos. The pictures do not do it justice. Very sexy gear. It’s a very heavy unit for the size. I wasn’t expecting that at all.
> 
> Anyway considering some users have reported issues and although this doesn’t prove anything, I just wanted to state that it doesn’t seem like this is anything but a very well built piece of equipment and I’m confident about the reliability.


Congrats. 

What is the basis for your 'do not stack them' comments, if you did not have it yet?


----------



## You Kay

MatW said:


> Congrats.
> 
> What is the basis for your 'do not stack them' comments, if you did not have it yet?



Like I’ve said before I have a Naim speaker system and I’ve learned a lot about system setup from the Naim philosophy. 

My Naim pre amplifier has a separate power supply therefore it’s the same principle here.


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## Gavin C4 (Dec 15, 2021)

You Kay said:


> Like I’ve said before I have a Naim speaker system and I’ve learned a lot about system setup from the Naim philosophy.
> 
> My Naim pre amplifier has a separate power supply therefore it’s the same principle here.


A lot of high end gear utilize the separate power supply unit. It should have less noise and better overall performance. The Ferrum is definitly getting the most out of this kind of design for the OOR amp. Some other amp solution like the Burson utilize a powerbrick for the solution. However the DC powerbrick ususally have lots of noise and has less clarity and detail compared to the solution like Hypsos.


----------



## MatW

You Kay said:


> Like I’ve said before I have a Naim speaker system and I’ve learned a lot about system setup from the Naim philosophy.
> 
> My Naim pre amplifier has a separate power supply therefore it’s the same principle here.


Ok, thanks for clarifying.


----------



## deafenears

OneEyedHito said:


> Ha, no  I put that on all of my pics because I have had folks use my pics to sell stuff in the past (not in here but on other sales platforms and hobbies). It offers a bit of a disincentive to that as well as keeps me in good practice.


Yeah, that's my main reason for taking really bad pics  ... at least I like to think that, but truth be told, I don't have the photography skills lol.

Nice set up by the way. I know I'm in the Ferrum OOR thread but man, can't take my eyes off the Holo Spring, they sure make some nice looking gear (both outside and inside!). Can't wait to see/hear the matching Holo Bliss.


----------



## OneEyedHito

deafenears said:


> Yeah, that's my main reason for taking really bad pics  ... at least I like to think that, but truth be told, I don't have the photography skills lol.
> 
> Nice set up by the way. I know I'm in the Ferrum OOR thread but man, can't take my eyes off the Holo Spring, they sure make some nice looking gear (both outside and inside!). Can't wait to see/hear the matching Holo Bliss.


†hank you and yeah I am chomping at the bit to get my hands on that thing too!!!


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## Gavin C4 (Dec 15, 2021)

One of my most used pairing daily. HD6XX and Ferrum OOR Hypsos. It is my easiest recommendation to anyone. The HD6XX basically suits every scenario of daily use. The OOR has enough power to open up the HD6XX, much better bass quality, and even gives the HD6XX a decent sound stage.


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## krude (Dec 16, 2021)

After a few more days with Oor + Hypsos + 1266 TC listening for a few hours a day, I can add a few things :

1. Oor on nominal voltage (24v) is something I would class as very warm, but without loosing any dynamics or top end details.
2. It is easily the most detailed amp I've heard. In every single song I'm picking up details I haven't heard before, usally some decay tails, stereo effects etc.
3. Imaging and precision is impecable, just perfect.
4. If you own 1266 TC and you get annoyed with spiky / hot top end, Oor is so smooth you will not believe how natural the TC sounds.
5. Bass slam is immense, easily the best bass I've heard.
6. H+O makes 1266 TC (a headphone that is known for being a bit wild) a very nice and listenable daily driver, that you can throw anything at and get a good experience. Most people who have TC experience on a few amps will find this statement mind blowing lol.
7. H+O is not as wide as the Soloist GT, but beats the GT + Supercharger in pretty much everything else, however if you index hard for soundstage GT might be a better fit as it is also an excellent amp in many ways.

On top of that you can go down or up with voltage. The effects on the sound are both profound and complex if you have a transparent set. Going down seems to make the sound leaner, harsher, more hollow, but even more detailed in some regions and more holographic.

Going up with the voltage is not making the sound leaner, but it makes it faster and more spiky, again resulting in more detilas. You can get insane details out of Oor if you play with the voltage. The price you pay is the perfect, natural, warm tuning you get on the nominal voltage. Good thing it's a really simple and quick change so you can change the character of the amp with a twist of a knob.


----------



## Gavin C4

krude said:


> After a few more days with Oor + Hypsos + 1266 TC listening for a few hours a day, I can add a few things :
> 
> 1. Oor on nominal voltage (24v) is something I would class as very warm, but without loosing any dynamics or top end details.
> 2. It is easily the most detailed amp I've heard. In every single song I'm picking up details I haven't heard before, usally some decay tails, stereo effects etc.
> ...



This is why Ferrum is so amazing. They are not throwing any hype or bold marketing at it. They are able to use all their knowledge with OEM Metek production and use it to produce an excellent amp in small volumes. The OOR + Hypsos is so amazing that I sold the Luxman p750u at an even higher price compared to when I bought it, as the Luxman MK II will not make its way out of Japan to other countries.


----------



## krude

Gavin C4 said:


> This is why Ferrum is so amazing. They are not throwing any hype or bold marketing at it. They are able to use all their knowledge with OEM Metek production and use it to produce an excellent amp in small volumes. The OOR + Hypsos is so amazing that I sold the Luxman p750u at an even higher price compared to when I bought it, as the Luxman MK II will not make its way out of Japan to other countries.


Yeah, for natural, warm and detailed sound I can't think of a better amp to be honest. The only amp that I still would try is the Bakoon amp-13r but not sure if it would be objectively better for the things that H+O is great at. This also partially invalidates the argument that 1266 TC timbre is so bad, it will never be a timbre first set, but on H+O it has great and natural timbre to my ears at least, not far off Susvara (from memory). Should be getting another Susvara soon to compare so will come back with more impressions.


----------



## FooFighter

You are right 
As my TC is so new I still have a new toy syndrome but I confirm that listening with TC out of OOR I don't feel that timbre and enjoyment of vocals and so called Susvara disciplines is lacking.
TC in that pairing is a much better all-rounder than I expected from the reviews before


----------



## krude

FooFighter said:


> You are right
> As my TC is so new I still have a new toy syndrome but I confirm that listening with TC out of OOR I don't feel that timbre and enjoyment of vocals and so called Susvara disciplines is lacking.
> TC in that pairing is a much better all-rounder than I expected from the reviews before


TC is an absolute person to get to sound smooth or natural, with good dynamics accross the board and good bass. H+O is the first amp I've heard that is able to do that. When you have a chance try it with some harsher amps like Bursons on Vivid op amps etc. or just play with the voltage on Hypsos. It's a miracle it sounds as natural and balanced as it does on H+O nominal voltage. Ferrum has done an exceptional job with tuning.


----------



## FooFighter

krude said:


> When you have a chance try it with some harsher amps like Bursons on Vivid op amps etc.


I would but needed to sell all my old gear to help financing my current TOTL gear 😉
Next step: Spring 3 KTE into the chain


----------



## krude

FooFighter said:


> I would but needed to sell all my old gear to help financing my current TOTL gear 😉
> Next step: Spring 3 KTE into the chain


Hah, I mean try it at a store or at a meet, mates place etc. : ) If Spring 3 is anything like my May you will not regret it : )


----------



## FooFighter

krude said:


> Hah, I mean try it at a store or at a meet, mates place etc. : ) If Spring 3 is anything like my May you will not regret it : )


Crazy times with Corona and child caring currently prevent flexibility for such events unfortunately but after researching and encouragements of mates like @OneEyedHito I went for the Spring 3


----------



## XVampireX

krude said:


> Hah, I mean try it at a store or at a meet, mates place etc. : ) If Spring 3 is anything like my May you will not regret it : )


The May is amazing for sure


----------



## MatW

I'm listening to the TC now, through the Qutest/Hypsos/OOR. It sounds magnificent, very enjoyable indeed. I do need high gain, 12 o clock for the TC. But it's approaching the sound quality of my setup 1, at a much lower cost. Not quite, the Dave / M Scaler is next level, but the bang for the buck of this combo is outstanding IMHO.

And the TC remains the GOAT, for me.. 😊 A class of its own, among headphones.


----------



## You Kay

It would be interesting to directly compare the Hypsos Oor to the formula, Powerman using the same source and 1266


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## MatW (Dec 16, 2021)

You Kay said:


> It would be interesting to directly compare the Hypsos Oor to the formula, Powerman using the same source and 1266


This is what I had to say about it earlier. (Not all that much):
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fer...fier-with-a-soul.958541/page-19#post-16633827

Listening more to setup 2 with the TC, there is a little bit of wow factor missing, vs setup 1. Whether that's due to the difference in DACs or amps, I'm not sure, but I suspect it's the DAC. Still sounds great though.


----------



## P.Car (Dec 16, 2021)

OneEyedHito said:


> I have the Ferrum Kit combined with the Spring 3 KTE and it is a great match sonically.  I agree with Kay to not stack these pieces they get warm to the touch side by side after several hours on so stacking for me would be too much heat so close to me not to mention how it might affect the equipment.



Heat is definitely the enemy but I noticed some other things while unstacking... Sound quality seemed to step up a notch ever so slightly.

It makes sense as you don't really want to place a transformer (and other electrical components from the power supply) directly on top or adjacent to your sensitive audio circuitry. 

The same principle goes for TOTL 2-channel preamps with two chassis. It's not a good idea to place the power supply unit RIGHT next to or on top of the sensitive audio circuits in the other chassis.

Adjacent is always better than on top.


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## Gavin C4 (Dec 16, 2021)

FooFighter said:


> I would but needed to sell all my old gear to help financing my current TOTL gear 😉
> Next step: Spring 3 KTE into the chain



Better get the May for best results with the separate power supply stack, just perfect match with the OOR Hypsos stack.

I put my OOR stack side by side, becaise heat will build up and accumulate if I stack them up on top of each other.


----------



## You Kay (Dec 17, 2021)

MatW said:


> This is what I had to say about it earlier. (Not all that much):
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fer...fier-with-a-soul.958541/page-19#post-16633827
> 
> Listening more to setup 2 with the TC, there is a little bit of wow factor missing, vs setup 1. Whether that's due to the difference in DACs or amps, I'm not sure, but I suspect it's the DAC. Still sounds great though.


I’ve mentioned this before but I’ll say it again. I’m very surprised in the headfi world how little respect the source gets. Personally I would take the very best source over the very best amp. It’s that important. So yes I’m not surprised setup 1 beats setup 2. Setup 2 is almost entry level DAC by Chord and setup 1 is the flashship DAC.


----------



## FooFighter

Gavin C4 said:


> Better get the May for best results with the separate power supply stack, just perfect match with the OOR Hypsos stack.


Maybe one day.
But I got the Spring3 KTE for far less than half of the price of the May KTE and that's all I can afford right now after getting Susvara, Ferrum stack, TC and JPS SC cable this year.
From what I read the Spring 3 KTE is quite decent and a bigger jump from Spring 2 than Spring 3  to May.
But of course I d like to get May one day 😉


----------



## OneEyedHito

FooFighter said:


> Maybe one day.
> But I got the Spring3 KTE for far less than half of the price of the May KTE and that's all I can afford right now after getting Susvara, Ferrum stack, TC and JPS SC cable this year.
> From what I read the Spring 3 KTE is quite decent and a bigger jump from Spring 2 than Spring 3  to May.
> But of course I d like to get May one day 😉


I’ve had the May KTE, I currently have the 3 KTE. For headphones which is where I use it the difference is not noticeable to my hearing. In a 2-channel system there is a difference I can hear but not with headphones that is quantifiable to me.


----------



## FooFighter

My seller wants to keep Spring 3 KTE for himself, so I need to look for a good deal elsewhere now 🙄


----------



## Delta9K

FooFighter said:


> My seller wants to keep Spring 3 KTE for himself, so I need to look for a good deal elsewhere now 🙄


That is a bummer and I'm sorry your plans are delayed, but I can appreciate the seller wanting to keep it.


----------



## krude

This week I discovered that power conditioning and filtering is a thing, and it really makes a huge difference.

Decided to get an relatively inexpensive Taga PC 5000 to get a taste of what, if anything, will it do to my system ... and oh boy.

Taga has 4 levels of power conditioning, 2 through a built in transformer and 2 just filtered I think. Hypsos + Oor sounds completely different from each type ... and different still from the wall. Going up the ladder shifts the balance towards bright and open sound for me, so if this is what you're after, that's a way to potentially tune your setup. It can sound wide and spacious, but at the expense of warmth I found. After 2 days of going back and forth I left my DAC going through the DAC specific secion on the conditioner and went back to my wall socket (actually an APC with surge protection, but no audio grade filtering) with Hypsos and Oor, because it sounds the fullest and the warmest with that power and that's what I want for the 1266 TC.

If I was mainly using my Utopia or a darker headset I would probably keep it pluged into the conditioner at one of the levels.

So ... TL;DR you can actually tune your setup with power ... 😆


----------



## FooFighter

Interesting, so it also means that "over conditioning" can also make things worse depending on the chain and headphone, right?


----------



## TubyAndWobbly

krude said:


> This week I discovered that power conditioning and filtering is a thing, and it really makes a huge difference.
> 
> Decided to get an relatively inexpensive Taga PC 5000 to get a taste of what, if anything, will it do to my system ... and oh boy.
> 
> ...


I hate to sound rude but have you checked for placebo? I'd imagine if you're getting a high end psu like the hypsos it should be able to account for an imperfect source of power.


----------



## krude

FooFighter said:


> Interesting, so it also means that "over conditioning" can also make things worse depending on the chain and headphone, right?


Indeed that seems to be the case, although I think there could be more to it. I treat it as a tuning mechanism for the set at the moment. Now I'm tempted to try it against some totl conditioners and and see if there is a difference.


----------



## FooFighter

TubyAndWobbly said:


> I hate to sound rude but have you checked for placebo? I'd imagine if you're getting a high end psu like the hypsos it should be able to account for an imperfect source of power.


I partially agree, at least that would be my expectation so far and I d expect a greater impact on sources not running through Hypsos like the feeding DAC


----------



## krude

TubyAndWobbly said:


> I hate to sound rude but have you checked for placebo? I'd imagine if you're getting a high end psu like the hypsos it should be able to account for an imperfect source of power.


Have you ever experimented with power on a transparent set? If not and you have access to a transparent set with a decent system I would advise you try to do some a / b testing. It changes the tuning of H+O so much it is like a different amp, not better, but different. I had to apply a low shelf at around +3-4db and a high shelf around -3db to try to counteract the shift in timbre, this is a huge amount of EQ and I still didn't manage to swing it because it's not only affecting FR directly. Anyway, I always thought that cabling and power is snake oil ... well ... I eat some humble pie once again.


----------



## FooFighter

I haven't tried power cable rolling with OOR but I remember I could recognize a slight effect running my previous Gustard A22 DAC through a 500 Eur power cable vs stock and thought it sounded more effortless afterwards.
Now having the same cable attached to OOR and haven't even unpacked the stock cable 😉


----------



## krude

FooFighter said:


> I haven't tried power cable rolling but I remember I could recognize a slight effect running my previous Gustard A22 DAC through a 500 Eur power cable vs stock and thought it sounded more effortless afterwards.
> Now having the same cable attached to OOR and haven't even unpacked the stock cable 😉


I can't talk about power cables, not sure if they make a big difference (maybe depends on a cable), but power conditioners, especially those with transformers, seem to make a big difference for some reason. I literally spent 2 hours plugging my dac and amp into all possible combinations and saying "holy * this is not possible" ... after which I had to give up and admit that a) it does make a huge difference b) I like H+O best from the wall socket (possibly because it has very good power conditioning already)


----------



## FooFighter

So in the end power conditioning for the unconditioned DAC was the best choice for your setup, right?
Holo May L2 does have an own PSU though yet, right?


----------



## krude

FooFighter said:


> So in the end power conditioning for the unconditioned DAC was the best choice for your setup, right?
> Holo May L2 does have an own PSU though yet, right?


That's where I left it at the moment, but I don't want to say how much of a difference it makes for May in isolation. I still need to do some a/b testing for the DAC itself. All I know is that for H+O the difference is immense, but can't say it's objectively better.


----------



## FooFighter (Dec 18, 2021)

Fair enough, that experiment would interest me even more for a DAC like Spring 3 without own PSU and built-in transformator which needs high voltage feed and therefore cannot be run through OOR


----------



## You Kay

krude said:


> This week I discovered that power conditioning and filtering is a thing, and it really makes a huge difference.
> 
> Decided to get an relatively inexpensive Taga PC 5000 to get a taste of what, if anything, will it do to my system ... and oh boy.
> 
> ...



Been there my friend. I too decided that any type of filtering/ power conditioning robs the music of dynamics although it does sound cleaner. 

I prefer dynamics therefore I never looked beyond a good quality star wired distribution block like the MusicWorks.


----------



## krude

FooFighter said:


> Fair enough, that experiment would interest me even more for a DAC like Spring 3 without own PSU and built-in transformator which needs high voltage feed and therefore cannot be run through OOR


Ok just did some a/b testing for May in isolation for you going between the transformer filtered 3A output (DAC specific) on the PC5000 and the mains, and there is a clear audible difference. Treble, upper mids, s region is a lot smoother from the conditioner and the bass is fuller. It is a clear audible difference. I didn't even have to check more than once to see a difference. It is not a huge difference like with an amp, more of a smoothness and fullness difference, but still enough to go "yeah, it is different" on the first try. Don't want to OT too much about DACs here, happy to talk via PMs.


----------



## krude (Dec 18, 2021)

You Kay said:


> Been there my friend. I too decided that any type of filtering/ power conditioning robs the music of dynamics although it does sound cleaner.
> 
> I prefer dynamics therefore I never looked beyond a good quality star wired distribution block like the MusicWorks.


Indeed bass compression is one of the things I noticed when going into the higher levels of conditioning. One of the reasons I decided to go back to the wall socket with the amp.


----------



## Tubewin

You Kay said:


> Been there my friend. I too decided that any type of filtering/ power conditioning robs the music of dynamics although it does sound cleaner.
> 
> I prefer dynamics therefore I never looked beyond a good quality star wired distribution block like the MusicWorks.


This can be true. Amps tend to sound more dynamic when plugged into the wall directly. When I had my previous amp, gsx-mini plugged into the ifi power station, it did negatively affect the sound. Sounded less dynamic and engaging. I have my current amp plugged into the hypsos which is than connected to the power plant's 1000w filtered outputs. It sounded "warmer/fuzzier" with the Hypsos directly into the wall. With the Hypsos connected to the power plant, the haze disappeared, became less warm, but it still remained dynamic. I do not use the regen outputs on the power plant 3 for the amp. I've tried that before and there was, what I felt to be, a reduction in dynamics. I use the regen outputs for my dac/source gear only and the filtered/more powerful outputs for my amp.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Dec 19, 2021)

krude said:


> Ok just did some a/b testing for May in isolation for you going between the transformer filtered 3A output (DAC specific) on the PC5000 and the mains, and there is a clear audible difference. Treble, upper mids, s region is a lot smoother from the conditioner and the bass is fuller. It is a clear audible difference. I didn't even have to check more than once to see a difference. It is not a huge difference like with an amp, more of a smoothness and fullness difference, but still enough to go "yeah, it is different" on the first try. Don't want to OT too much about DACs here, happy to talk via PMs.









Ferrum Hypsos connected to a Lightspeed reference Mark 3. Power conditioner is a complicated topic, it really depends on what types of problem you need to solve with your power in your wall. One solution may not work for all.

Abyss headphones got a very detailed video on youtube discussing different types of problems and solutions to power. Although there is a huge STOP in red for the video thumb nail, they are not against using power conditioner. You just need the correct type of conditioner for your own use.


----------



## krude

Gavin C4 said:


> Ferrum Hypsos connected to a Lightspeed reference Mark 3. Power conditioner is a complicated topic, it really depends on what types of problem you need to solve with your power in your wall. One solution may not work for all.
> 
> Abyss headphones got a very detailed video on youtube discussing different types of problems and solutions to power. Although there is a huge STOP in red for the video thumb nail, they are not against using power conditioner. You just need the correct type of conditioner for your own use.



Thank you for the link. I really like the Abyss guys and their videos. They seem to be genuinely nice, relatively objective and don't even push their products too much.


----------



## FooFighter

Interestingly the topic is also being discussed in the Susvara thread speaking of 2 channel speaker system conditioners...
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hifiman-susvara.853031/post-16720022

But in all honesty I d better take a more modest approach as this game will get far too expensive for my purse (it yet is🙄)


----------



## krude

FooFighter said:


> Interestingly the topic is also being discussed in the Susvara thread speaking of 2 channel speaker system conditioners...
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hifiman-susvara.853031/post-16720022
> 
> But in all honesty I d better take a more modest approach as this game will get far too expensive for my purse (it yet is🙄)


Hah yeah, take it easy and enjoy the music, that's why we're here man. I recently took my old DT 770Pro to see how much worse (or maybe even better) it would be compared with my TC stack ...

... it is at that point I realised that my investmet was totally worth it 😂


----------



## Gavin C4 (Dec 19, 2021)

TubyAndWobbly said:


> I hate to sound rude but have you checked for placebo? I'd imagine if you're getting a high end psu like the hypsos it should be able to account for an imperfect source of power.





krude said:


> Indeed that seems to be the case, although I think there could be more to it. I treat it as a tuning mechanism for the set at the moment. Now I'm tempted to try it against some totl conditioners and and see if there is a difference.







Remember, whatever cable you plug into your Hypsos, the power eventually has to pass through the proprietary 5 pin power cord provided by Ferrum to connect the Hypsos with the OOR. The interconnect power cord for Hypsos> OOR provided by Ferrum has an important role in the tuning of the OOR. A Higher-quality power cord generally benefits from a slightly larger conductor gauge and better shielding compared to the OEM plastic power cord. I personally use the power cord for tuning purposes. Whether there is a difference, you have to listen to yourself.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Dec 19, 2021)

FooFighter said:


> Interestingly the topic is also being discussed in the Susvara thread speaking of 2 channel speaker system conditioners...
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hifiman-susvara.853031/post-16720022
> 
> But in all honesty I d better take a more modest approach as this game will get far too expensive for my purse (it yet is🙄)



We are even using 2-channel systems DACs for your Ferrum Hypsos and OOR stacks here. We are talking about Holo May and dCS DACs. The upgrade will eventually trickle down to 2-channel conditioners, XLR inter-connects and power cords. This is just part of the hobby. But I can have just as much enjoyment listening to an HD 6XX compared to listening to the Utopia or Abyss.


----------



## krude

Gavin C4 said:


> We are even using 2-channel systems DACs for your Ferrum Hypsos and OOR stacks here. We are talking about Holo May and dCS DACs. The upgrade will eventually trickle down to 2-channel conditioners, XLR inter-connects and powercords.


That is true, with 1266 TC, Susvara and other totl sets we can finally reap all the benefits of a 2 channel setup. Good time to be alive 😁


----------



## Gavin C4 (Dec 19, 2021)

krude said:


> That is true, with 1266 TC, Susvara and other totl sets we can finally reap all the benefits of a 2 channel setup. Good time to be alive 😁


People are using 2-channel power amps for the Susvara. Hifiman themselves released a 50w power output headphone amp for the Susvara. The Hifiman ef1000. But we are only chasing for the last 5% of the performance and a lot of the time that last 5% is actually personal preference in tuning. Hate to say that that word, but hey, diminishing return. If you are financially blessed and are comfortable with it, fine.

I can't stress enough that, getting the Ferrum Hypsos and OOR has already bought you so ahead of the game. I can safely say it is totally worth it to get the Ferrum stack. Extremely happy with the performance with Utopia and Abyss. Not sure about the Susvara though, hehe


----------



## Terriero

krude said:


> Hah yeah, take it easy and enjoy the music, that's why we're here man. I recently took my old DT 770Pro to see how much worse (or maybe even better) it would be compared with my TC stack ...
> 
> ... it is at that point I realised that my investmet was totally worth it 😂


I think it would be better if your DT 770 surpasses the 1266 TC by a margin... Your wallet would be full of greens


----------



## Menkau-ra

Did anybody like VC on Oor?


----------



## krude

Testing Susvara on Hypsos + Oor for the last few days, there was an argument if Oor has enough power to drive the Susvara ... 

...

... and the answer is it has more than enough and then some. For normal listening I keep it at 10 o clock and still getting more than enough volume and dynamics. 12 o clock and you can rock out and start damaging your hearing. The bass is tight, I managed to get it to shake on bassy tracks (with a few db sub shelf) so I guess you can get all the bass you'll ever need from Susvara with Hypsos + Oor if you are so inclined while still having loads of headroom.

1 o clock and it is already way to loud to be able to even listen to it for more than a 30 sec.


----------



## MatW

krude said:


> Testing Susvara on Hypsos + Oor for the last few days, there was an argument if Oor has enough power to drive the Susvara ...
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


Depends on the voltage of the source.. Big difference if it's 6V (from my Dave) or 3V (from my Qutest).


----------



## krude

MatW said:


> Depends on the voltage of the source.. Big difference if it's 6V (from my Dave) or 3V (from my Qutest).


Sure, you need a decent balanced source, but that's true for almost any amp, maybe with exception of Volot. I wouldn't say it's the amp that's lacking power 🤷‍♂️


----------



## MatW

krude said:


> Sure, you need a decent balanced source, but that's true for almost any amp, maybe with exception of Volot. I wouldn't say it's the amp that's lacking power 🤷‍♂️


What is the voltage of your source?


----------



## krude

MatW said:


> What is the voltage of your source?


5.8v I think for May in balanced.


----------



## MatW

krude said:


> 5.8v I think for May in balanced.


Ah, a May, nice. I'm thinking of adding a May, more likely a Spring... So yeah, similar to my Dave in terms of voltage, and my impressions on the loudness line up with yours.

With a 3V source it is still OK, I think, but there may be instances, e.g. with quiet classical pieces, where the headroom on the volume dial becomes quite small.


----------



## Terriero

MatW said:


> Ah, a May, nice. I'm thinking of adding a May, more likely a Spring... So yeah, similar to my Dave in terms of voltage, and my impressions on the loudness line up with yours.
> 
> With a 3V source it is still OK, I think, but there may be instances, e.g. with quiet classical pieces, where the headroom on the volume dial becomes quite small.


After your May Spring purchase, if you don't use anymore your Dave, I will adopt it... I'm here with open arms...


----------



## krude (Dec 21, 2021)

I did a bunch of testing with the Susvara recently, and apart from the fact that it is a great set and works great with Oor + Hypsos, I am most surprised with the Utopia. Utopia was my first flagship, I sold it, bought it back, it's not my daily driver even though I have an exclusive amp for it (HA6a) ... but every time I go back to it I'm amazed at just how good it is.

Even after testing 1266 TC and Susvara back to back on first Burson GT and now Hypsos + Oor Utopia constanlty surprises me with just how consistently good it is and how well it scales. On Hypsos + Oor it's smooth, powerful, detailed, wide, imaging is amazing, it's an easy listen, there's meat, there's bass ...

I guess I just wanted to say how good of an amp Oor + Hypsos is, but mostly how good Utopia truly is and how well it scales. It could be my only set. In fact I would probably sell everything else first if I had to.


----------



## Tubewin

krude said:


> I did a bunch of testing with the Susvara recently, and apart from the fact that it is a great set and works great with Oor + Hypsos, I am most surprised with the Utopia. Utopia was my first flagship, I sold it, bought it back, it's not my daily driver even though I have an exclusive amp for it (HA6a) ... but every time I go back to it I'm amazed at just how good it is.
> 
> Even after testing 1266 TC and Susvara back to back on first Burson GT and now Hypsos + Oor Utopia constanlty surprises me with just how consistently good it is and how well it scales. On Hypsos + Oor it's smooth, powerful, detailed, wide, imaging is amazing, it's an easy listen, there's meat, there's bass ...
> 
> I guess I just wanted to say how good of an amp Oor + Hypsos is, but mostly how good Utopia truly is and how well it scales. It could be my only set. In fact I would probably sell everything else first if I had to.


The Utopia's are really good. Best headphone I've tried so far. I just ordered a cable for them from Arctic Cables


----------



## mat.1

I am visiting Orange County.
Where can I find Ferrum in California ( Orange County) that have a good price ?


----------



## paradoxper

krude said:


> Hah yeah, take it easy and enjoy the music, that's why we're here man. I recently took my old DT 770Pro to see how much worse (or maybe even better) it would be compared with my TC stack ...
> 
> ... it is at that point I realised that my investmet was totally worth it 😂


Oh, I was holding my breathe there.


----------



## Audio46

mat.1 said:


> I am visiting Orange County.
> Where can I find Ferrum in California ( Orange County) that have a good price ?



We are happy to announce that we start carrying Ferrum at Audio 46 and we offer fast shipping for their products.

https://audio46.com/collections/ferrum


.


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## Gavin C4 (Dec 23, 2021)

krude said:


> I did a bunch of testing with the Susvara recently, and apart from the fact that it is a great set and works great with Oor + Hypsos, I am most surprised with the Utopia. Utopia was my first flagship, I sold it, bought it back, it's not my daily driver even though I have an exclusive amp for it (HA6a) ... but every time I go back to it I'm amazed at just how good it is.
> 
> Even after testing 1266 TC and Susvara back to back on first Burson GT and now Hypsos + Oor Utopia constanlty surprises me with just how consistently good it is and how well it scales. On Hypsos + Oor it's smooth, powerful, detailed, wide, imaging is amazing, it's an easy listen, there's meat, there's bass ...
> 
> I guess I just wanted to say how good of an amp Oor + Hypsos is, but mostly how good Utopia truly is and how well it scales. It could be my only set. In fact I would probably sell everything else first if I had to.


I almost had the same experience with the Utopia. When I got the 1266TC and Luxman P750u, I actually wanted to sell the Utopia and had already posted on trade. Because it was not used at all. But with the OOR + Hypsos pairing with the Utopia, it is totally another level, I guess this is synergy. The Utopia sounded ever so good. Now I have no plans to sell the Utopia. The Utopia is so balanced and basically perfect for vocals.


----------



## kumar402

Gavin C4 said:


> I almost had the same experience with the Utopia. When I got the 1266TC and Luxman P750u, I actually wanted to sell the Utopia and had already posted on trade. Because it was not used at all. But with the OOR + Hypsos pairing with the Utopia, it is totally another level, I guess this is synergy. The Utopia sounded ever so good. Now I have no plans to sell the Utopia. The Utopia is so balanced and basically perfect for vocals.


No surprise good amplifiers make good headphones sound great. 
I got ECP DSHA-3F for focal but my 800s and ZMF sound best out of it


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## Gavin C4 (Dec 24, 2021)

Does any one has the experience of amp that has a wider sound stage than the Hypsos and OOR stack? Solid State or tubes. Based on my experience, the Luxman P750u might sound to have a slightly, just so very slightly tiny wider sound stage compared to the Hypsos OOR. BUT, the width might be due to the slightly less clarity and golden color coloration in the music that makes the instrument not as clear and crips compared to the OOR to make it sound slightly more distant. 

Ferrum Hypsos and OOR compared to other budget amps such as A90 or THX 789 or Schiit alternatives, they all sounded boxed and intimate. With Schiit house sound being upfront and in your face type of presentation.


----------



## OneEyedHito (Dec 24, 2021)

Forgot to hit reply.


----------



## OneEyedHito

Gavin C4 said:


> Does any one has the experience of amp that has a wider sound stage than the Hypsos and OOR stack? Solid State or tubes. Based on my experience, the Luxman P750u might sound to have a slightly, just so very slightly tiny wider sound stage compared to the Hypsos OOR. BUT, the width might be due to the slightly less clarity and golden color coloration in the music that makes the instrument not as clear and crips compared to the OOR to make it sound slightly more distant.
> 
> Ferrum Hypsos and OOR compared to other budget amps such as A90 or THX 789 or Schiit alternatives, they all sounded boxed and intimate. With Schiit house sound being upfront and in your face type of presentation.


Enleum 23r I have in house is a bit wider. Not much but it’s wider. Better instrument separation also. This is with Susvara.


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## krude (Dec 25, 2021)

Gavin C4 said:


> Does any one has the experience of amp that has a wider sound stage than the Hypsos and OOR stack? Solid State or tubes. Based on my experience, the Luxman P750u might sound to have a slightly, just so very slightly tiny wider sound stage compared to the Hypsos OOR. BUT, the width might be due to the slightly less clarity and golden color coloration in the music that makes the instrument not as clear and crips compared to the OOR to make it sound slightly more distant.
> 
> Ferrum Hypsos and OOR compared to other budget amps such as A90 or THX 789 or Schiit alternatives, they all sounded boxed and intimate. With Schiit house sound being upfront and in your face type of presentation.


Soloist GT, but it comes at a cost of details and clarity. From my experience the more crips and detailed the sound the more defined and often slightly smaller the sound stage. Heard that Volot is also wide, but haven't tried it.

Also this is only aparent with straight a / b, in isolation I would never say that Oor is not a spacious amp.


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## Tubewin (Dec 24, 2021)

krude said:


> Soloist GT, but it comes at a cost of details and clarity. From my experience the more crips and detailed the sound the more defined and often slightly smaller the sound stage. Heard that Volot it also wide, but haven't heard it.
> 
> Also this is only aparent with straight a / b, in isolation I would never say that Oor is not a spacious amp.


+1

The Soloist GT does make the music sound really wide. I love it. And that's with the Utopia's... if that tells you anything. I find it as detailed or better than the gsx-mini but with a significantly bigger sound stage. I do have a power chain though, so to each their own.


----------



## krude (Dec 25, 2021)

Tubewin said:


> +1
> 
> The Soloist GT does make the music sound really wide. I love it. And that's with the Utopia's... if that tells you anything. I find it as detailed or better than the gsx-mini but with a significantly bigger sound stage. I do have a power chain though, so to each their own.


Agreed, I see myswlf having both Oor and the GT for different use cases. Large hall electronica sounded unbelievable on the GT, you don't really care that much about the natural timbre, precise imeging or the fact that some lines are smeared, but the overall scale and envelopping sound is literally jaw dropping ...

... it may happen that I'll get the GT back again ...

I would go as far as saying that those particular amps sound so different, that its almost like getting another set of headphones.


----------



## Tubewin

krude said:


> Agreed, I see myswlf having both Oor and the GT for different use cases. Large hall electronica sounded unbelievable on the GT, you don't really care that much about the natural timbre, precise imeging or the fact that some lines are smeared, but the overall scale and envelopping sound is literally jaw dropping ...
> 
> ... it may happen that I'll get the GT back again ...
> 
> I would go as far as saying that those particular amps sound so different, that its almost like getting another set of headphones.


I'm not getting any of those negatives, but then again, I'm using a PSaudio Power Plant + Hypsos + upgraded power cables.


----------



## krude

Tubewin said:


> I'm not getting any of those negatives, but then again, I'm using a PSaudio Power Plant + Hypsos + upgraded power cables.


If I get GT back, ill try it again on the PC5000 with different filtering levels and see what it does. Im curious now  its only when you do critical listening back to back you notice the differences.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

Has anyone else compared the Hypos vs ifi Elite with the Oor?


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## Gavin C4 (Dec 27, 2021)

It seems the Hypsos and OOR have a very high quality of clarity and detail that excels above a lot of other solid-state amps. To a small degree, the clarity may take away a bit of the width of the sound stage. Since you hear the detail so clearly, it might not sound so far away. While some amps have slightly less clarity or some things are presented in a slightly vague manner, that makes the instrument on the left and right sound slightly further away.

Imo, the OOR almost has the best presentation in width and depth. It is extremely accurate and does not exaggerate it. If the recoding is an live recording, sense of space is well presented. If the recording is inside a small studio, it is presented as it is. The Hypsos and OOR is a truly transparent amp. What makes the Hypsos and OOR so good is that the amp does not achieve clarity and detail by adding fake brightness into the music. Instead, the Hypsos and OOR are very so slightly warm in presentation with the fatigue-free listening experience.


----------



## krude

Gavin C4 said:


> It seems the Hypsos and OOR have a very high quality of clarity and detail that excels above a lot of other solid-state amps. To a small degree, the clarity may take away a bit of the width of the sound stage. Since you hear the detail so clearly, it might not sound so far away. While some amps have slightly less clarity may make the instrument on the left and right sound slightly further away.
> 
> Imo, the OOR almost has the best presentation in width and depth. It is extremely accurate and does not exaggerate it. If the recoding is an live recording, sense of space is well presented. If the recording is inside a small studio, it is presented as it is. The Hypsos and OOR is a truly transparent amp.


This is something that I noticed with really good mixes when you have instruments moving, like harp plucks that play out in quick sequence but each pluck is happening in a slightly different place. Those little nuances Hypsos Oor is capturing so precisely you have to hear it to believe it, especially on sets that do large stage and laser sharp imaging like TC and Susvara.


----------



## LarsMan

I've been looking for another headphone amp to add to my stable - I've got a couple of good tube ones, and Eddie Current Studio B and an Auris Nirvana, but I'd like to see how something else would work thrown into the mix, and what I'm reading about this Ferrum gear, I like. I'd be using it with a Holo May KTE DAC or an MSB Analog DAC as the source, and my headphone stable right now is Susvara, Utopia, and LCD-5. So much to mix and match and see what combinations I like best! I was looking at an Enleum, as those seem to be available now, but I'm going to buy a Ferrum stack instead... Looking forward!!


----------



## krude

LarsMan said:


> I've been looking for another headphone amp to add to my stable - I've got a couple of good tube ones, and Eddie Current Studio B and an Auris Nirvana, but I'd like to see how something else would work thrown into the mix, and what I'm reading about this Ferrum gear, I like. I'd be using it with a Holo May KTE DAC or an MSB Analog DAC as the source, and my headphone stable right now is Susvara, Utopia, and LCD-5. So much to mix and match and see what combinations I like best! I was looking at an Enleum, as those seem to be available now, but I'm going to buy a Ferrum stack instead... Looking forward!!


Nice one, works and looks great paired with May Utopia and Susvara, it will be interesting to see how it plays with LCD5. Let us know


----------



## Gavin C4

LarsMan said:


> I've been looking for another headphone amp to add to my stable - I've got a couple of good tube ones, and Eddie Current Studio B and an Auris Nirvana, but I'd like to see how something else would work thrown into the mix, and what I'm reading about this Ferrum gear, I like. I'd be using it with a Holo May KTE DAC or an MSB Analog DAC as the source, and my headphone stable right now is Susvara, Utopia, and LCD-5. So much to mix and match and see what combinations I like best! I was looking at an Enleum, as those seem to be available now, but I'm going to buy a Ferrum stack instead... Looking forward!!



I have tried the Auris Nirvana and the Ferrum Hypsos and OOR is just as good in another way. Don't let stereotypes affect you, given the Ferrum is such a small amp compared to your tube alternative, it sounded really amazing. Really look forward to your impression of the Vertie Open.


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## krude (Dec 31, 2021)

I had a bit of an adventure with trying to return my Soloist GT ... in the end I managed to get the package back after it got stuck at FedEx for about a month 0_o xD

Anyway, in the meantime I got the Susvara and Hypsos + Oor for Christmas and I decided to keep the GT for now at least (too much stress with customs and couriers to bother for now) and just enjoy the music.

But I did some comparisons (also using the conditioner) and came to some interesting conclusions.

- Hypsos + Oor is a a lot warmer and fuller; GT is more ethereal and has more upper mids / trebble energy
- The difference in tuning affects the sound stage a bit, GT is slightly wider (but that has been said already), but the difference is minor really and depends on the track.

Now the interesting bit about the pairings ...
- Oor was developed as a pairing for Susvara, and it works great, but for me GT is a better pairing for Susvara. It injects a bit more life and sharpness into this very smooth and balanced headphone making it, at least for me, a bit more pleasurable. There is a cost to that tho and the cost is losing a bit of the natural timbre Susvara is known for. So if you want maximum timbre then Oor still wins hands down, but GT makes Susvara a more of a generalist headphone.
- Funnily enough Oor is the best pairing I've eaver heard for the 1266 TC. The same way as the GT inects some extra air and life into the Susvara making it more exciting (for me of course), Oor is taming this in the TC to great effect. TC is the most controlled and balanced I've ever heard it running from H+O.

... so ... hmm 🤷‍♂️ also running GT + supercharger from a power conditioner makes it a bit more controlled and restores some upper band details if anyone is interested (@Tubewin already mentioned that and inspired me to first get a conditioner and then test it).


----------



## LarsMan

Gavin C4 said:


> I have tried the Auris Nirvana and the Ferrum Hypsos and OOR is just as good in another way. Don't let stereotypes affect you, given the Ferrum is such a small amp compared to your tube alternative, it sounded really amazing. Really look forward to your impression of the Vertie Open.


Hi Gavin! Not sure if I'll be able to give you an impression through the VO's, as I'm putting them up for sale. Beautiful headphones, great sound, but just missing something for me that I get with Susvara and Utopia - jury still out on LCD-5! Happy New Year!!


----------



## Pashmeister (Jan 1, 2022)

krude said:


> I had a bit of an adventure with trying to return my Soloist GT ... in the end I managed to get the package back after it got stuck at FedEx for about a month 0_o xD
> 
> Anyway, in the meantime I got the Susvara and Hypsos + Oor for Christmas and I decided to keep the GT for now at least (too much stress with customs and couriers to bother for now) and just enjoy the music.
> 
> ...


I feel that Hypsos‘ transparent qualities pair better with good r2r like Holo’s smooth and analog-sounding offerings, while GT which has a smooth analog sound pairs better with the more incisive Chord Dacs.

Any amp with an upgraded power supply sounds significantly better from stock PSU right, including Oor. Have people tried other PSUs for the Oor other than the Hypsos? There’s a lot of good options available and I would be very curious how the Oor will sound when compared with Hypsos vs with a very good linear PSU.


----------



## Jarmel

Does anybody recommend a dealer in the US? Seems like it’s MSRP across the board in which case might as well just order directly from Ferrum.


----------



## LarsMan

Jarmel said:


> Does anybody recommend a dealer in the US? Seems like it’s MSRP across the board in which case might as well just order directly from Ferrum.


I'm getting mine from Tone of Audio in San Francisco; in fact, Tim from Tone is bringing by Oor and Hypsos tomorrow!


----------



## ChJL

Any advice on which amp would be fitting better? Oor + Hypsos Vs. Vio 550pro???

I usually don't write in Forums but read threads from first to last page if the topic is of interest to me.

Set up:
SOtM 200 Ultra - Gustard X26 Pro - ??? - Focal Clear OG /// future HP has to be anything other than Dynamic - having either Audeze LCD-X or even LCD 5 in mind!!!
Most importantly: music is electronic, not your typical EDM, most of it not found on streaming platforms, techno in it's various forms, D&B and ambient type... 
Hesitant to ask audiophiles who probably wouldn't consider that music, but to be honest I have YouTubers and reviewers attitudes in mind. Not to forget the importance of bass performance which should go without saying...
Any suggestions welcome, even if you think of something (DAC, hp, amp) entirely different. Peace and greetings from austria.


----------



## krude

ChJL said:


> Any advice on which amp would be fitting better? Oor + Hypsos Vs. Vio 550pro???
> 
> I usually don't write in Forums but read threads from first to last page if the topic is of interest to me.
> 
> ...


Hah I listen to all sorts including underground techno and dnb 🍻

I would start with picking up a headphone first and then an amp and dac for it. For techno I would start with auditioning 1266 TC, Utopia, Empyrean / Elite and LCD5, chances are 1266 TC wins ... if it does get Oor + Hypsos for it and a smooth dac. Some people say this is the best setup for electronica 🤷‍♂️🤠


----------



## SpeleoFool

ChJL said:


> Hesitant to ask audiophiles who probably wouldn't consider that music....


Heh.  I wonder how that rumor got started?  Or maybe the term "audiophile" is just misunderstood.






FWIW, I listen to all kinds of everything, including tons of electronica.  Before I got into the hobby, I wondered if I belonged, since "audiophiles" seemed to like pretentious classical and jazz.  Turns out, those are just particularly demanding genres.  Getting the timbre of natural instruments right, plus staging and separation and detail and naturalness and everything else needed to make that material as believable as possible is generally more challenging than the same for made up electronic soundscapes, since it's harder to say what's a proper reproduction.



ChJL said:


> Any advice on which amp would be fitting better? Oor + Hypsos Vs. Vio 550pro???


Personally, I couldn't be more happy with Hypsos+Oor.  I have Violectric V280, and appreciate that for being capable of driving all of my headphones well, but H+O not only drives Susvara about as well as my McIntosh speaker amp, but also drives MEST MkII customs with no noise floor.  Everything I've used with it sounds its best.  I have nothing but praise for my V280, but I'm hard pressed to think of anything at all I'd change about H+O.  Maybe better color temp matching on the Fe? 🤣 

Otherwise, I could echo what @krude suggested for headphones (though I would add LIRIC to that list).


----------



## akqrate (Jan 2, 2022)

I’d add the Arya SE to the above recommendations by krude for those genres. I actually don’t mind the Susvara with them too, but it’s a softer presentation.


----------



## Njychen

Does anyone have any experience with TC and/or Susvara using Hypsos and Oor vs HSA-1b (thru SR1 adapter)?


----------



## krude

Njychen said:


> Does anyone have any experience with TC and/or Susvara using Hypsos and Oor vs HSA-1b (thru SR1 adapter)?


Do a search for TC in this thread, I've posted a bunch of impressions, but haven't tried HSA1b.


----------



## ChJL

krude said:


> Hah I listen to all sorts including underground techno and dnb 🍻
> 
> I would start with picking up a headphone first and then an amp and dac for it. For techno I would start with auditioning 1266 TC, Utopia, Empyrean / Elite and LCD5, chances are 1266 TC wins ... if it does get Oor + Hypsos for it and a smooth dac. Some people say this is the best setup for electronica 🤷‍♂️🤠


Auditioning is probably the best idea and I fear that this monster HP could be best suited but maybe not for long hours and I don't see too much sense in getting an Utopia or Stellia


----------



## krude

ChJL said:


> Auditioning is probably the best idea and I fear that this monster HP could be best suited but maybe not for long hours and I don't see too much sense in getting an Utopia or Stellia


Try Utopia from a good tube amp like HA6a and good solid state like Oor or Soloist GT. You may be surprised.


----------



## Njychen

krude said:


> Do a search for TC in this thread, I've posted a bunch of impressions, but haven't tried HSA1b.


Oh yes, thank you for your impressions.  I’ve tried searching the TC thread as well but no luck.

Basically I’m trying to figure out if it’s worth getting the Hypsos/Oor combo for TC/Susvara or if there isn’t much improvements over HSA1b.


----------



## krude

Njychen said:


> Oh yes, thank you for your impressions.  I’ve tried searching the TC thread as well but no luck.
> 
> Basically I’m trying to figure out if it’s worth getting the Hypsos/Oor combo for TC/Susvara or if there isn’t much improvements over HSA1b.


Only thing I can say is that those sets are really transparent and picky for their own reasons, so I would imagine most amps will sound different. It may be down to your preference at the end of the day. I think you may have to do some a / b testing with one or two amps to see what you're after in terms of sound. H+O is a safe bet to try, its very controlled, smooth and detailed and will work great with any set, from iems to Susvara, especially well with sets with spiky treble like TC.


----------



## ChJL

Is there consensus that reported issues with the Oor can be linked to (an) early batch(es) and one could feel save now?


----------



## LarsMan

ChJL said:


> Is there consensus that reported issues with the Oor can be linked to (an) early batch(es) and one could feel save now?


I'll find out soon, as I just got mine yesterday and haven't even tried it yet! It is one of the new batches....


----------



## OneEyedHito

I had an OG unit that got repaired by the mfgr (board replacement), it was great after replacement. I sold it and ordered a new one. No issues with it either. Both are fine.


----------



## SpeleoFool

ChJL said:


> Is there consensus that reported issues with the Oor can be linked to (an) early batch(es) and one could feel save now?


Should be safe, yeah.  I ordered my unit at CANJAM SoCal and found out about the early issues shortly after getting back.  I was in contact with VANA while issues were investigated and addressed, and they held off on shipping my units until everything was resolved.  I got my stack around the end of November, and it has been working great since.  It came loaded with the latest firmware (on Hypsos), and near-latest PCB rev (Oor).  The PCB issue was related to the possibility of going into protection before reaching full power limit, which isn't really a practical concern, even with Susvara, because of how power works.  There's plenty of headroom to drive Susvara well, to more than loud enough; IMO the PCB issue is more of a "technically not right" concern than a real problem, but if it ever became even a concern there's a warranty (and a pretty good backstory).

Anyway, I had the same concerns, but am past them and happy with the units I got.  I wouldn't avoid buying anymore; I followed developments reasonably closely and felt VANA / Ferrum handled things well.  I wouldn't expect to find bum units in the supply chain anymore, but I'm confident that if something came up I'd get support.


----------



## ChJL

krude said:


> Try Utopia from a good tube amp like HA6a and good solid state like Oor or Soloist GT


This year on Black Friday a retailer offered a trade in for Utopias reducing the price around 1.100 for Clears. If they will be offering that next year as well, who knows... At times I wonder if for my preferences there is a really substantial better solution than Clears.

Still I think adding a planar magnetic HP will bring most diversified listening experience. (I use an old HD 700 and a Kennerton Magni as well...)

But looks like I can't go wrong with H+O stepping up from the Questyle 12... can't imagine that company won't eradicate QC issues.

Maybe an Auris tube amp much later since they are an European brand.

I want to "make sure" my future amp will handle dynamic and planar HPs equally well!!!
But ya'll know much more about this power Vs current topic!




SpeleoFool said:


> and everything else needed to make that material as believable as possible is generally more challenging than the same for made up electronic soundscapes


I like that... when one has no access to live music and therefore strives to listen to naturally reproduced "real" music through electronic equipment.


----------



## GoldenOne

I currently have 3 OORs here (I was the one that found the issues originally and they sent me new revisions with fixes as they were discovered).
A friend of mine who had ordered his OOR at canjam Socal recently received his. It's an earlier serial number than any of the three I have here, but it has all the fixes.

This implies that Ferrum did actually recall units and apply the necessary fixes. So whilst I can't say for certain (I'm just some guy, don't take this as fact ), it does seem that any retail units received will have no issues.

Also, OOR sounds great


----------



## ChJL

SpeleoFool said:


> Should be safe, yeah.  I ordered my unit at CANJAM SoCal and found out about the early issues shortly after getting back.  I was in contact with VANA while issues were investigated and addressed, and they held off on shipping my units until everything was resolved.  I got my stack around the end of November, and it has been working great since.  It came loaded with the latest firmware (on Hypsos), and near-latest PCB rev (Oor).  The PCB issue was related to the possibility of going into protection before reaching full power limit, which isn't really a practical concern, even with Susvara, because of how power works.  There's plenty of headroom to drive Susvara well, to more than loud enough; IMO the PCB issue is more of a "technically not right" concern than a real problem, but if it ever became even a concern there's a warranty (and a pretty good backstory).
> 
> Anyway, I had the same concerns, but am past them and happy with the units I got.  I wouldn't avoid buying anymore; I followed developments reasonably closely and felt VANA / Ferrum handled things well.  I wouldn't expect to find bum units in the supply chain anymore, but I'm confident that if something came up I'd get support.


Great thanks, plus they look like a great team where the old and new guard have a fruitful synergy...


----------



## ChJL

GoldenOne said:


> I currently have 3 OORs here (I was the one that found the issues originally and they sent me new revisions with fixes as they were discovered).
> A friend of mine who had ordered his OOR at canjam Socal recently received his. It's an earlier serial number than any of the three I have here, but it has all the fixes.
> 
> This implies that Ferrum did actually recall units and apply the necessary fixes. So whilst I can't say for certain (I'm just some guy, don't take this as fact ), it does seem that any retail units received will have no issues.
> ...


Great plus I now know probably not to get that Bartok!


----------



## Menkau-ra

Pashmeister said:


> Any amp with an upgraded power supply sounds significantly better from stock PSU right, including Oor. Have people tried other PSUs for the Oor other than the Hypsos? There’s a lot of good options available and I would be very curious how the Oor will sound when compared with Hypsos vs with a very good linear PSU.


Interesting if Oor can work iFi iPower Elite?


----------



## chargedcapacitor

Menkau-ra said:


> Interesting if Oor can work iFi iPower Elite?


The ifi Elite voltage is too low to operate the Oor, unfortunately.


----------



## OneEyedHito

chargedcapacitor said:


> The ifi Elite voltage is too low to operate the Oor, unfortunately.


They make a 24v that would work but you’re out another $300. I’d hope the Hypsos beats it for the money!


----------



## Delta9K (Jan 3, 2022)

OneEyedHito said:


> They make a 24v that would work but you’re out another $300. I’d hope the Hypsos beats it for the money!


ifi Elite specs for the 24v version are 24v 2.5A; Hypsos  can do 9A up to 30v max IIRC
Seems the Hypsos is worth its price


----------



## iFi audio

Delta9K said:


> ifi Elite specs for the 24v version are 24v 2.5A; Hypsos can do 9A up to 30v max IIRC



That's true, iPower Elite is available in four fixed voltage versions and 24V/2.5A is the highest.


----------



## deafenears

GoldenOne said:


> Also, OOR sounds great


Does it bump the Holo Serene off the top of your list for best headphone amp?


----------



## GoldenOne

deafenears said:


> Does it bump the Holo Serene off the top of your list for best headphone amp?


Not quite no.

At the moment the serene is still my favourite. But the serene doesn't have the same power as the oor and so stuff like susvara sounds much better on the OOR


----------



## FooFighter (Jan 4, 2022)

Holo Bliss is coming out one day this year but I could never wait that long even if that one will best the Ferrum stack


----------



## Basco

GoldenOne said:


> I currently have 3 OORs here (I was the one that found the issues originally and they sent me new revisions with fixes as they were discovered).
> A friend of mine who had ordered his OOR at canjam Socal recently received his. It's an earlier serial number than any of the three I have here, but it has all the fixes.
> 
> This implies that Ferrum did actually recall units and apply the necessary fixes. So whilst I can't say for certain (I'm just some guy, don't take this as fact ), it does seem that any retail units received will have no issues.
> ...


Hey Also interested to look into the OOR, can you tell the difference of the old and new serial numbers after the revision? Also what was the exact initial problem?!
Thanks for your help here


----------



## GoldenOne

Basco said:


> Hey Also interested to look into the OOR, can you tell the difference of the old and new serial numbers after the revision? Also what was the exact initial problem?!
> Thanks for your help here


Serial numbers will not answer anything as units with earlier serials than the ones I have here that are affected have already been recalled and fixed.
But if you buy a unit, it will have the fixes. Even the ones that people had ordered before I'd even found these issues got recalled and fixed before being delivered.

There was a problem whereby the amplifier would go into overcurrent protection too early as the protection circuit was misreading something after a change in supplier for a component on the board. Though this occurred at about 4-5w output so it's incredibly unlikely that anyone would ever have actually noticed/found this anyway unless they were trying to blow up their headphones and make themselves go deaf. I only found it as I was testing the max power output of the amp with a dummy load whilst measuring. (Which btw actually exceeds Ferrum's stated spec and I was able to get 9.5w @ 32 ohm and 8.3w @ 50 ohm.)

And the second was that there was some odd behaviour with ultrasonic content (like, over 200khz, not at all anything close to the audible range) which showed up whilst doing some square wave and bandwidth testing.
But again this is something that'd never actually impact any user in the real world as your DAC shouldn't be outputting anything at those frequencies, and also no human can hear 200khz. And even if they could it was fairly low level.
Ferrum found the cause and fixed it in less than a day though so no issues.

https://goldensound.audio/2021/10/27/ferrum-oor-and-hypsos-measurements/

It's a loooovely amp


----------



## Basco

GoldenOne said:


> Serial numbers will not answer anything as units with earlier serials than the ones I have here that are affected have already been recalled and fixed.
> But if you buy a unit, it will have the fixes. Even the ones that people had ordered before I'd even found these issues got recalled and fixed before being delivered.
> 
> There was a problem whereby the amplifier would go into overcurrent protection too early as the protection circuit was misreading something after a change in supplier for a component on the board. Though this occurred at about 4-5w output so it's incredibly unlikely that anyone would ever have actually noticed/found this anyway unless they were trying to blow up their headphones and make themselves go deaf. I only found it as I was testing the max power output of the amp with a dummy load whilst measuring. (Which btw actually exceeds Ferrum's stated spec and I was able to get 9.5w @ 32 ohm and 8.3w @ 50 ohm.)
> ...


Wow, thanks for the indepth infos, that will help me to make my decision. Actually have you compared it or owned any other Amps comparable before? I'm between Violectric V280 and the OOR (for now as standalone without the HYPSOS) for I rather spend the money in a DAC (Denafrips Ares II maybe?!) first.

I prefer a warm and hamonic soundstage over ultra analytical neutral soundstage. I would drive my Denon 7200, Focal Elegia and Audioquest NightOwl with it. Maybe in Future a ZMF Verite Closed or Meze Liric with it.


----------



## Jarmel

Is there a way of controlling the output like if you wanted to use either the headphone out and the preamp stuff at different times but had both plugged in?


----------



## sawindra

Basco said:


> I prefer a warm and hamonic soundstage over ultra analytical neutral soundstage. I would drive my Denon 7200, Focal Elegia and Audioquest NightOwl with it. Maybe in Future a ZMF Verite Closed or Meze Liric with it.



try the v280, it has swappable op-amps so you can get the sound you are looking for..get the Orange amps dual-opamps ..4 of them


----------



## Menkau-ra

GoldenOne said:


> https://goldensound.audio/2021/10/27/ferrum-oor-and-hypsos-measurements/
> 
> It's a loooovely amp


are you gonna have a video review on Oor?


----------



## GoldenOne

Menkau-ra said:


> are you gonna have a video review on Oor?


Yep video review will be coming soon


----------



## Basco

sawindra said:


> try the v280, it has swappable op-amps so you can get the sound you are looking for..get the Orange amps dual-opamps ..4 of them


Oh really getting interested into your tuning recommendation here. Forgive my newbie questions here but do you mean inside the circuits?!


----------



## sawindra

hi yes


----------



## Basco

sawindra said:


> hi yes


Do you know what exactly the difference from these op-amp is compared to the regular (black) ones?! Also what cost will occur and do you know where to buy them?!


----------



## sawindra

Basco said:


> Do you know what exactly the difference from these op-amp is compared to the regular (black) ones?! Also what cost will occur and do you know where to buy them?!




the orange duals mimicks the "jensen 990" and makes the sound more tube amp like. I bought mines from 

https://www.profusionplc.com/parts/orange-dd


----------



## Menkau-ra

GoldenOne said:


> Yep video review will be coming soon


What is your opinion on Hypsos? Can I use just Oor if I want to save some money?


----------



## Basco

Hi


sawindra said:


> the orange duals mimicks the "jensen 990" and makes the sound more tube amp like. I bought mines from
> 
> https://www.profusionplc.com/parts/orange-dd


Awesome, thanks 🙏 
Just one thing keeps puzzeling me…
When looking at the jensen 990 at the link they seem to look different when comparing to the jrc 5532






 or is it just the inside they show on profusionplc.com and the chip itselfs can easily be swapped?!


----------



## sawindra

Basco said:


> Hi
> 
> Awesome, thanks 🙏
> Just one thing keeps puzzeling me…
> ...


yes...it will work, just remember to install the orange duals the correct direction


----------



## OneEyedHito (Jan 6, 2022)

I know you asked @GoldenOne but I will say as I have said elsewhere in this thread that the Oor without the Hypsos is good but it is GREAT with the Hypsos, noise floor is lower, instruments (including the voice as an instrument) have better separation and the soundstage widens to my ears (likely due to the two aforementioned traits though).

I will be listing my like new (a month or so old) Ferrum Hypsos and Oor tonight or tomorrow.  You can read my many previous gushing comments in this thread about it, I love it.  I was able to get a WA33 though and I am not Rich so I have to pair down my equipment relative to my budget.


----------



## Basco (Jan 6, 2022)

sawindra said:


> yes...it will work, just remember to install the orange duals the correct direction


By correct direction you mean that orange (red side) is right and blue left? The chip will then “stand” upright in the socket?!




All in the same direction?


----------



## FooFighter (Jan 6, 2022)

I ve never dived deeper into the OPAMP changing topic but got aware of it once considering Burson Grand Tourer which is offering such features too.
The possibilities sound a bit like the tube rolling rabbit hole for tube amps.
For the majority of amps we just need to live with what we get and can only tweak using cables and sources


----------



## sawindra

Basco said:


> By correct direction you mean that orange (red side) is right and blue left? The chip will then “stand” upright in the socket?!



the direction is usually determined by pin-1, on the jrc's you see the round circle on top of the op-amp. on the orange you can easily see the direction on the socket


----------



## deafenears

OneEyedHito said:


> I know you asked @GoldenOne but I will say as I have said elsewhere in this thread that the Oor without the Hypsos is good but it is GREAT with the Hypsos, *noise floor is lower*, instruments (including the voice as an instrument) have better separation and the soundstage widens to my ears (likely due to the two aforementioned traits though).


@GoldenOne's review says PSU noise leakage with the HYPSOS and for IEMs, to best use without the HYPSOS.


----------



## Basco

sawindra said:


> the direction is usually determined by pin-1, on the jrc's you see the round circle on top of the op-amp. on the orange you can easily see the direction on the socket


If I got it right it should like this?! Or the other way around?! Also what about the 5th unit (I draw an arrow) will it just stay in there?!


----------



## OneEyedHito

deafenears said:


> @GoldenOne's review says PSU noise leakage with the HYPSOS and for IEMs, to best use without the HYPSOS.


I don’t use IEM’s. Ever since I saw Start Trek II the Wrath of Khan back in the day and they put those Earworms in their helmets I can’t stomach anything in my ears except beautiful music.


----------



## Jarmel

I take it there's no way of controlling the volume to the headphone outs and the XLR outputs on the back separately? I have studio monitors and so there's no volume control on those.


----------



## OneEyedHito

@Jarmel 
You unplug headphones and the volume will attenuate your monitors if they are connected to the XLR outs on the rear of the amp. It’s a preamp and headphone amp both.


----------



## Jarmel

OneEyedHito said:


> @Jarmel
> You unplug headphones and the volume will attenuate your monitors if they are connected to the XLR outs on the rear of the amp. It’s a preamp and headphone amp both.


My concern is if I want to use the headphones, would it disable output to the XLR outputs on the back or would it push audio through both the headphones outputs and XLR outputs at the same time.


----------



## Delta9K

Jarmel said:


> My concern is if I want to use the headphones, would it disable output to the XLR outputs on the back or would it push audio through both the headphones outputs and XLR outputs at the same time.


"The potentiometer built into the OOR affects the volume of not only the headphones, but also the RCA and XLR outputs. We recommend disconnecting headphones from the OOR if they are not used for a longer period of time, and especially if you want to control volume on RCA or XLR outputs (when an amplifier or active speakers are connected)."

https://ferrum.audio/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/OOR_manual.pdf


----------



## Jarmel (Jan 6, 2022)

Delta9K said:


> "The potentiometer built into the OOR affects the volume of not only the headphones, but also the RCA and XLR outputs. We recommend disconnecting headphones from the OOR if they are not used for a longer period of time, and especially if you want to control volume on RCA or XLR outputs (when an amplifier or active speakers are connected)."
> 
> https://ferrum.audio/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/OOR_manual.pdf


I apologize if I'm not being clear. I essentially want output only to the headphone outputs when headphones are connected in, even if the XLR outputs from Oor are plugged in to the studio monitors. I understand if I disconnect the headphones I can still control the volume to the monitors.

I don't want output to both the XLR/RCA outputs and the headphone outputs at the same time and I'm trying to determine if the amp would know "Hey headphones are plugged in, cut audio to the XLR/RCA outputs and don't do preamp stuff. I'll just be a headphone amp and that's it". My Balancing Act for example had a dedicated switch on it where I would flip it depending on if I wanted it to be a preamp or headphone amplifier.


----------



## OneEyedHito

Jarmel said:


> I apologize if I'm not being clear. I essentially want output only to the headphone outputs when headphones are connected in, even if the XLR outputs from Oor are plugged in to the studio monitors. I understand if I disconnect the headphones I can still control the volume to the monitors.
> 
> I don't want output to both the XLR/RCA outputs and the headphone outputs at the same time and I'm trying to determine if the amp would know "Hey headphones are plugged in, cut audio to the XLR/RCA outputs and don't do preamp stuff. I'll just be a headphone amp and that's it". My Balancing Act for example had a dedicated switch on it where I would flip it depending on if I wanted it to be a preamp or headphone amplifier.


Gotcha sorry, I power on or off my Dynaudio Monitors at my office when not using them with the switch on the rear, it is a bit inconvenient for sure.  I haven't used the Oor at my home office as a Pre due to having LSX's on my desk.  I assume it is same as my office setup though and would require independent power on/off to the monitors.


----------



## Delta9K (Jan 6, 2022)

Jarmel said:


> I apologize if I'm not being clear. I essentially want output only to the headphone outputs when headphones are connected in, even if the XLR outputs from Oor are plugged in to the studio monitors.


Yes, and that is what I showed you from the manual - That both headphone and rear outputs are live at the same time, from how it's read.


----------



## SpeleoFool

deafenears said:


> @GoldenOne's review says PSU noise leakage with the HYPSOS and for IEMs, to best use without the HYPSOS.


FWIW, I'm using Hypsos + Oor for IEMs, and it's phenomenally good.  There might be an academic advantage re: mains noise, but H+O is still one if the cleanest sources I've heard with, well, everything I've thrown at it, including IEMs.

About the only caveat is that ultra sensitive IEMs like Andromeda Gold and MAD24s pick up some noise even with the pot off.  However, there is still ample usable range on the dial, and once you get off minimum volume both of these IEMs sound great with black backgrounds.



OneEyedHito said:


> Ever since I saw Start Trek II the Wrath of Khan back in the day and they put those Earworms in their helmets I can’t stomach anything in my ears except beautiful music.


Trivia: that "ear worm" is called the Ceti Eel, which is the name I gave my Kann Cube. 😏


----------



## RAYC

Jarmel said:


> I don't want output to both the XLR/RCA outputs and the headphone outputs at the same time and I'm trying to determine if the amp would know "Hey headphones are plugged in, cut audio to the XLR/RCA outputs and don't do preamp stuff. I'll just be a headphone amp and that's it". My Balancing Act for example had a dedicated switch on it where I would flip it depending on if I wanted it to be a preamp or headphone amplifier.



I must admit, as I look around the various higher end head-amp / pre-amp combos, I'm surprised that this flexibility isn't a standard feature given how useful it is for a desktop setup.

The Pass HPA-1 and Woo WA-22 and 33 seem to have the option to select between headphone output and pre output with a single click / button press. As does the Burson Funk (albeit it is speaker out rather than pre out), and it's wonderfully convenient on my desk. However, none of those have safety features to prevent damage to ears / speakers / cans.

The implementation that looks most appealing to me is the Benchmark HPA4, which (at least from what I can tell online) looks to have independently adjustable volume levels for the headphone / pre outputs, and the output selection (pre / headphone / both) can be toggled via an easy click of the volume knob or via the touch screen. The new Burson Soloist 3X GT seems to have similar functionality, but with switching buried in a menu system (making it less appealing to me in terms of practicality.....and to me a missed opportunity given that the "screen orientation" toggle somewhat bizarrely gets its own dedicated button on the front!).


----------



## elira

RAYC said:


> The implementation that looks most appealing to me is the Benchmark HPA4, which (at least from what I can tell online) looks to have independently adjustable volume levels for the headphone / pre outputs, and the output selection (pre / headphone / both) can be toggled via an easy click of the volume knob or via the touch screen.


The Benchmark HPA4 has the best volume control system I have seen, it's sublime.


----------



## Sound Eq

greetings

I wonder if adding 2 hypsos to my chain would be advised

orr with a hypsos
ifi pro idsd with hypsos

or would it not be needed to add another hypsos to my ifi dac


----------



## FooFighter

Sound Eq said:


> greetings
> 
> I wonder if adding 2 hypsos to my chain would be advised
> 
> ...


Doesn't Ifi Pro idsd yet come with a decent PSU?
The signature edition has been updated AFAIK


----------



## Sound Eq

FooFighter said:


> Doesn't Ifi Pro idsd yet come with a decent PSU?
> The signature edition has been updated AFAIK


i have the older ifi pro idsd, which comes with a power supply, but the question would it be a good idea to add another hypsos to my ifi pro idsd


----------



## FooFighter

Sound Eq said:


> i have the older ifi pro idsd, which comes with a power supply, but the question would it be a good idea to add another hypsos to my ifi pro idsd


Maybe @OneEyedHito has tried using Hypsos with his new Ifi Pro Ican Signature before and could report about significant differences? Am not aware of anybody using the IDSD Pro though in this thread so far but might be wrong


----------



## OneEyedHito

I didn’t get to try that pairing but at $300 usd I’d just get the ifi elite from their Amazon store. @iFi audio has stated that the upgrades are significant using the elite ps and I believe them because the Signature was the same step up as they said to my ears. ifi makes great gear, for the money I’d say they are one of the best we have in HP audio.


----------



## iFi audio

Sound Eq said:


> i have the older ifi pro idsd, which comes with a power supply, but the question would it be a good idea to add another hypsos to my ifi pro idsd



We got some feedback that this PSU works nicely with our Pro iDSD and its stock power supply can be upgraded. That's why our Pro Signature range features our iPower Elite products.


----------



## RAYC

Just looking at this one again, I do like the fact that it has a "power amp" mode to bypass the internal volume control (if desired). Are there many other headphone amps that have this option?

Not sure if I'm searching the correct terms here, but the only other one that pops up with similar functionality is the Burson Soloist 3XP


----------



## iFi audio

RAYC said:


> Are there many other headphone amps that have this option?



As far as regular headphone amps go, those that provide the option to disengage their volume control are rare.


----------



## krude (Jan 13, 2022)

I've been going back to classic rock / metal recently using HD800 and Susvara, I especially like Axel Rudi and I'm going back to his tracks very regularly. I've been inspired by running my electric guitar through Oor and HD800 and getting really natural and pretty excellent results.

Oh boy, music like this on Oor with sets like HD800 and Susvara really shows what Oor is all about ... tone, timbre, tone and timbre. It's amazing, from the crunch of electric guitar tones, sparke of acoustic guitar strums and natural clean cymbal hits. It all sounds ultra detailed but really natural. Treble with upper mids is a big highlight of this amp and the differentiating factor between Oor and anything else solid state I've heard to date. It's the sound most other amps try to get to. It's getting close to the tube sound but with solid state clarity and details. I'm blown away by how well it handles H800 and Susvara, really showcasing what those sets are about.


----------



## LarsMan

krude said:


> I've been going back to classic rock / metal recently using HD800 and Susvara, I especially like Axel Rudi and I'm going back to his tracks very regularly. I've been inspired by running my electric guitar through Oor and HD800 and getting really natural and pretty excellent results.
> 
> Oh boy, music like this on Oor with sets like HD800 and Susvara really shows what Oor is all about ... tone, timbre, tone and timbre. It's amazing, from the crunch of electric guitar tones, sparke of acoustic guitar strums and natural clean cymbal hits. It all sounds ultra detailed but really natural. Treble with upper mids is a big highlight of this amp and the differentiating factor between Oor and anything else solid state I've heard to date. It's the sound most other amps try to get to. It's getting close to the tube sound but with solid state clarity and details. I'm blown away by how well it handles H800 and Susvara, really showcasing what those sets are about.


I just got my Hypsos/Oor set up last week, and yeah, that really does rock, big time! I'm using it with Susvara, Utopia, and LCD-5, and so far, I think I like it best with the LCD-5, but that is certainly subject to change. My only issue is that it's taking some time to get used to a SS sound (though I don't find it as dry-sounding to me as Chord gear I've had), and my other headphone amps are Eddie Current and Auris Nirvana tube amps, which I love for their sense of depth and 3-D holography and such. But I think I can enjoy it both ways, and vive la differance! Still need to set up that 'sweet spot', though....


----------



## krude

LarsMan said:


> I just got my Hypsos/Oor set up last week, and yeah, that really does rock, big time! I'm using it with Susvara, Utopia, and LCD-5, and so far, I think I like it best with the LCD-5, but that is certainly subject to change. My only issue is that it's taking some time to get used to a SS sound (though I don't find it as dry-sounding to me as Chord gear I've had), and my other headphone amps are Eddie Current and Auris Nirvana tube amps, which I love for their sense of depth and 3-D holography and such. But I think I can enjoy it both ways, and vive la differance! Still need to set up that 'sweet spot', though....


Give it some time to burn in and also notice what it really excells at. Oor reminds me of Utopia in a way that when you hear it first time most people will say "oh its nothing special", but the more you listen, especially to midrange detail and how it plays with top end, the more you realise how special the voicing is. It won't be the same as tubes but it has effortless power, slam and speed in spades.


----------



## Menkau-ra

If I purchase Oor first and then later Hypsos do I need to buy the connector cable separate or it comes with Hypsos?


----------



## sawindra

Menkau-ra said:


> If I purchase Oor first and then later Hypsos do I need to buy the connector cable separate or it comes with Hypsos?



u specify which cable you want when ordering hypsos.


----------



## Delta9K

Menkau-ra said:


> If I purchase Oor first and then later Hypsos do I need to buy the connector cable separate or it comes with Hypsos?


From what I've seen the cable (Ferrum Link) is an additional cost. Though, that could be something you and your dealer can work out.


----------



## Menkau-ra

Would HE6se sound better with Oor than SA-1 if I don't get Hypsos?


----------



## Delta9K (Jan 13, 2022)

I know that I am just an on-looker window-shopping for the Ferrum stack, but it appears (to me) that to get the Orr without the Hypsos is leaving most of the magic on the table, they are best together. On the other hand, the Hypsos, as a PSU on its own, is something to consider if you were looking for a good PSU for a DAC or Streamer that could work with it.


----------



## LarsMan

Delta9K said:


> From what I've seen the cable (Ferrum Link) is an additional cost. Though, that could be something you and your dealer can work out.


I believe that when you order the Hypsos/Oor stack together, you get the Ferrum link between them, as you need it to hook those up together; if you get them separately, you'd have to buy the Ferrum link separately as well.


----------



## OneEyedHito

LarsMan said:


> I believe that when you order the Hypsos/Oor stack together, you get the Ferrum link between them, as you need it to hook those up together; if you get them separately, you'd have to buy the Ferrum link separately as well.


It’s an additional part & charge. I’ve bought it twice and it’s @$130usd.


----------



## Basco

Hi just following the thread and read all the interesting posts in here.

Right now I’m considering different kind of amps and also the Ferrum OOR keeps me interested.

Would you say it’s an amp that’s on the warmer  side of music away from analytical neutrality and is good for electronic music, Hip-Hop Soul and Funk and music that has an approach to tight, deep and punchy base?!

Thanks


----------



## Basco

Delta9K said:


> I know that I am just an on-looker window-shopping for the Ferrum stack, but it appears (to me) that to get the Orr without the Hypsos is leaving most of the magic on the table, they are best together. On the other hand, the Hypsos, as a PSU on its own, is something to consider if you were looking for a good PSU for a DAC or Streamer that could work with it.


So would you say the OOR as standalone isn’t worth it? I mean it’s another 1K for the Hypsos and in total the stack is 3K which is a lot more than other Amps like Violectric V280?


----------



## krude

Basco said:


> Hi just following the thread and read all the interesting posts in here.
> 
> Right now I’m considering different kind of amps and also the Ferrum OOR keeps me interested.
> 
> ...


Oor has a full bodied, natural voicing. I would say it's sightly warm-neutral with rich midrange. You buy Oor over anything else I know of in the price range because you want clean, crisp, ultra detailed, but most importantly natural tuning, ultra low noise floor and black background even on sensitive iems, loads of power, at least 9W per channel if not more. It has bass, slam, dynamics, but it's not bass boosted, it has natural and textured bass with authority.


----------



## krude

Basco said:


> So would you say the OOR as standalone isn’t worth it? I mean it’s another 1K for the Hypsos and in total the stack is 3K which is a lot more than other Amps like Violectric V280?


If you get Oor, you will want Hypsos at some point, but you will want to upgrade the PSU in pretty much any amp or get a linear PSU if the manufacturer doesn't provide one, so you won't escape the power upgrade if you want maximum performance anyway. I would also recommend looking into power conditioners, but that depends on where you live and if you can get a direct power line to your amp or not.


----------



## realmassy

I’ve got a question about the hypsos, which i’m planning to use as PSU for my streamer (not in combination with the Oor): is it silent? I mean, any noise from the transformer? Linear PSU tend to buzz, but the Hypsos is an hybrid, so hopefully it’s quiet?


----------



## Basco (Jan 14, 2022)

krude said:


> If you get Oor, you will want Hypsos at some point, but you will want to upgrade the PSU in pretty much any amp or get a linear PSU if the manufacturer doesn't provide one, so you won't escape the power upgrade if you want maximum performance anyway. I would also recommend looking into power conditioners, but that depends on where you live and if you can get a direct power line to your amp or not.


Hey I live in Berlin, Germany and live in an apparent rather than a family house. So I have to live with the power that comes out of the electronic socket as it is.

Sure I will look into Hypsos PSU maybe at some point in future but for me the important fact is, does it sound like 200% better with PSU. There must be a point from Ferrum/HEM that OOR also convinces the customer as a stand-alone unit otherwise they would have made the Hypsos an must have requirement to run with the OOR?!


----------



## krude

realmassy said:


> I’ve got a question about the hypsos, which i’m planning to use as PSU for my streamer (not in combination with the Oor): is it silent? I mean, any noise from the transformer? Linear PSU tend to buzz, but the Hypsos is an hybrid, so hopefully it’s quiet?


No buzz, mine is totaly silent and it sits 50cm from my face on my desk.


----------



## krude (Jan 14, 2022)

Basco said:


> Hey I live in Berlin, Germany and live in an apparent rather than a family house. So I have to live with the power that comes out of the electronic socket as it is.
> 
> Sure I will look into Hypsos PSU maybe at some point in future but for me the important fact is, does it sound like 200% better with PSU. There must be a point from Ferrum/HEM that OOR also convinces the customer as a stand-alone unit otherwise they would have made the Hypsos an must have requirement to run with the OOR?!


Berlin, cool city, I'm planning to visit and try the famous gemuse kebab  was planning to move there but property prices are insane now.

I wouldn't say it's 200% better, but it is signifficantly better. It's the same story with Burson and Supercharger, no point in getting their gear without it pretty much ... and it will be the same story with any amp. I didn't appreciate the difference power makes till recently. You will not escape the power optimisation with any amp if you want the peak performance.

For apartment blocks I would definitely look at power conditioners, I got Taga PC-5000, it's cheap but surprisingly good. I bought it without expecting much, but it really blew my mind what difference it made (I got really bad power tho at the moment, old communist appartment block).

Also what headphones are you driving? If it's not ultra detailed then you will be fine without Hypsos for now and then you have room to upgrade once you move up.


----------



## Basco (Jan 14, 2022)

krude said:


> Berlin, cool city, I'm planning to visit and try the famous gemuse kebab  was planning to move there but property prices are insane now.
> 
> I wouldn't say it's 200% better, but it is signifficantly better. It's the same story with Burson and Supercharger, no point in getting their gear without it pretty much ... and it will be the same story with any amp. I didn't appreciate the difference power makes till recently. You will not escape the power optimisation with any amp if you want the peak performance.
> 
> ...


Hey Krude, thanks for the props, glad you like Berlin 😇 I was born here and love the city…Did you know that Döner Kebab was invented in Berlin and not in Turkey even if most turkish takeaway’s offer it ✌️

Right Now I have the Denon D7200, Focal Elegia and Audioquest NightOwl and run them with my Mojo. Mostly I’m into closed Headphones…
My next Headphone will either be Meze Liric or ZMF Verite Closed. I’ve already listened to the Meze‘s (nice deep and tight bass with warm details) but still want to check out the VC‘s (little hard to find a dealer in Germany)


----------



## FooFighter

Basco said:


> Hey Krude, thanks for the props, glad you like Berlin 😇 I was born here and love the city…Did you know that Döner Kebab was invented in Berlin and not in Turkey even if most turkish takeaway’s offer it ✌️
> 
> Right Now I have the Denon D7200, Focal Elegia and Audioquest NightOwl and run them with my Mojo. Mostly I’m into closed Headphones…
> My next Headphone will either be Meze Liric or ZMF Verite Closed. I’ve already listened to the Meze‘s (nice deep and tight bass with warm details) but still want to check out the VC‘s (little hard to find a dealer in Germany)


Regarding VC, headphonecompany.com, Thomas Halbgewachs is the main distributor for ZMF AFAIK in Germany


----------



## krude (Jan 14, 2022)

Basco said:


> Hey Krude, thanks for the props, glad you like Berlin 😇 I was born here and love the city…Did you know that Döner Kebab was invented in Berlin and not in Turkey even if most turkish takeaway’s offer it ✌️
> 
> Right Now I have the Denon D7200, Focal Elegia and Audioquest NightOwl and run them with my Mojo. Mostly I’m into closed Headphones…
> My next Headphone will either be Meze Liric or ZMF Verite Closed. I’ve already listened to the Meze‘s (nice deep and tight bass with warm details) but still want to check out the VC‘s (little hard to find a dealer in Germany)


Yeah I've heard the story, that's why I want to try the proper Berlin kebab : ) Mustafas Gemuse seems to be legendary, but I would proably end up doing a Kebab tour xD

With those sets you don't have to worry about power for now, just get Oor on it's own, once you get Liric or VC you can start thinking about Hypsos. Shame that you can't do open backs, otherwise Empyrean would probably be a good step. If Liric is anything like Empy you'd be fine though.


----------



## Menkau-ra

krude said:


> Also what headphones are you driving? If it's not ultra detailed then you will be fine without Hypsos for now and then you have room to upgrade once you move up.


What about He6se? Will I be OK for now if I don't buy Hypsos?


----------



## krude

Menkau-ra said:


> What about He6se? Will I be OK for now if I don't buy Hypsos?


Yea I would say so. You will get better performance from Hypsos, but I would put that money first into a higher tier headphone before upgrading the power.

I would say the quality % split is something like :
- 50% headhone / speaker
- 20% amp
- 10% dac
- 10% power
- 5% files / streaming service (only talking CD quality or better)
- 5% cables

So, headphones + amps come first imo.


----------



## Menkau-ra

krude said:


> Yea I would say so. You will get better performance from Hypsos, but I would put that money first into a higher tier headphone before upgrading the power.


I also have VC. In the feature I plan to get either Susvara/Diana TC/LCD5.


----------



## krude

Menkau-ra said:


> I also have VC. In the feature I plan to get either Susvara/Diana TC/LCD5.


Nice, it works great with Susvara, really extracts the natural timbre it's capable of. Should also tame the Diana TC if it's similar to 1266 TC.


----------



## LarsMan

krude said:


> Yea I would say so. You will get better performance from Hypsos, but I would put that money first into a higher tier headphone before upgrading the power.
> 
> I would say the quality % split is something like :
> - 50% headhone / speaker
> ...


Good breakdown!! I would say though that if the higher quality the amp, the higher percentage should be given to the DAC that feeds it; as somebody who uses a Holo May DAC, I can say it has almost as much to do with the sound as my Auris Nirvana amp. With lower (but still good) quality amps, the DAC won't make as much difference...


----------



## krude

LarsMan said:


> Good breakdown!! I would say though that if the higher quality the amp, the higher percentage should be given to the DAC that feeds it; as somebody who uses a Holo May DAC, I can say it has almost as much to do with the sound as my Auris Nirvana amp. With lower (but still good) quality amps, the DAC won't make as much difference...


Indeed it all goes together in the end. Great headphones enable great amps to sound great, and great amps with great headphones allow great DACs to shine. In the end it all comes together and becomes a balancing act. Last bits I would say are power and interconnects. I would always go headphone first, amp second, dac third, power fourth, but at the end of the day you need all of it together to get the full experience.

I was running relatively cheap chain, Hugo 2 and some low tier amps, untill I got to 1266 TC and Susvara level, that pretty much forced me to break the bank and start investing in all of the above ... so untill you get to totl level, you can pretty much wing it on lower tier electronics. Of course now I know that higher tier electronics will make lower tier headphones sound better ... but even the best chain won't make a Clear sound like Utopia etc.


----------



## Delta9K (Jan 14, 2022)

Basco said:


> So would you say the OOR as standalone isn’t worth it?


I have not heard the stack personally for myself which I hoped was clearly stated upfront in my post - but, from what I have heard from at least 3 different sources that I trust who have or had the Orr+Hypsos stack is that Orr on its own is meh. However, it is important to note that when I discussed with them using the Orr, my use case is for driving Susvara and 1266 TC class headphones, aka those known to have more demanding power requirements - not just quantity of available power, but also quality delivery of said power. It is my belief that the quality of power delivery department is where the Hypsos comes into play and improves over the Orr's standard included power brick.


----------



## Basco

Menkau-ra said:


> I also have VC. In the feature I plan to get either Susvara/Diana TC/LCD5.


Hey great you own a VC did you had the chance to listen to the Meze Liric and compare them?! I heard for VC sounds best with tube amps?! Worth trying a solid state amp like the OOR


----------



## duranxv

How does the OOR pair up with tube pre-amps?

Also, any comparisons with this amp vs. Benchmark amps? (HPA4 or AHB2 - used with headphones)


----------



## OneEyedHito

duranxv said:


> How does the OOR pair up with tube pre-amps?
> 
> Also, any comparisons with this amp vs. Benchmark amps? (HPA4 or AHB2 - used with headphones)


Search my posts in here on it with the WA22. Beautiful pairing.


----------



## Neoaudiophile21

Menkau-ra said:


> I also have VC. In the feature I plan to get either Susvara/Diana TC/LCD5.


I have no experience with the Susvaras, but I have the TC and LCD5. Should day had the LCD5. The Diana TC beat them in every way and made it an easy choice for me when deciding which to keep.


----------



## duranxv

OneEyedHito said:


> Search my posts in here on it with the WA22. Beautiful pairing.



Very interesting! You almost have the same set-up as me.  I have a Spring 3 KTE as my DAC and a WA22 that's acting as a pre-amp to my current SS amp (Sparkos Aries).  Do you feel the WA22 paired better with your AHB2? Or the OOR + Hypsos stack?


----------



## OneEyedHito

duranxv said:


> Very interesting! You almost have the same set-up as me.  I have a Spring 3 KTE as my DAC and a WA22 that's acting as a pre-amp to my current SS amp (Sparkos Aries).  Do you feel the WA22 paired better with your AHB2? Or the OOR + Hypsos stack?


I prefer the Oor Stack over the AHB2 overall, I feel the power is 100% equal and the Oor is just a bit less dry than the AHB2.  The AHB2 is awesome for what it is but I am not really a fan of it as a headphone amp at this point. Have been a bit spoiled now by being able to demo so many higher end setups and am currently settled on the WA33.  It is the best AMP (even over Enleum) that I have had in my system by a long shot.  It is a great pairing with the Spring 3 KTE since that DAC has a slight bit warmer tilt to it combined with the almost SS like WA33 grip and detail.


----------



## duranxv

OneEyedHito said:


> I prefer the Oor Stack over the AHB2 overall, I feel the power is 100% equal and the Oor is just a bit less dry than the AHB2.  The AHB2 is awesome for what it is but I am not really a fan of it as a headphone amp at this point. Have been a bit spoiled now by being able to demo so many higher end setups and am currently settled on the WA33.  It is the best AMP (even over Enleum) that I have had in my system by a long shot.  It is a great pairing with the Spring 3 KTE since that DAC has a slight bit warmer tilt to it combined with the almost SS like WA33 grip and detail.



Do you use the WA33 exclusively at this point? And did you try using it as pre-amp into your OOR stack just for comparison's sake?


----------



## klaus2325

Majorhifi posted a „review“ of the Oor-Hypsos stack:
https://majorhifi.com/ferrum-oor-with-hypsos-power-system-review/
They say about the sound: „On a whole, the OOR gave me a similar impression to that of a Questyle amplifier like the CMA Twelve, or an RME device like the ADI-2“. 
That is a praise for RME ADI DAC which costs about 1/3 of the Ferrum combo!?!


----------



## krude

klaus2325 said:


> Majorhifi posted a „review“ of the Oor-Hypsos stack:
> https://majorhifi.com/ferrum-oor-with-hypsos-power-system-review/
> They say about the sound: „On a whole, the OOR gave me a similar impression to that of a Questyle amplifier like the CMA Twelve, or an RME device like the ADI-2“.
> That is a praise for RME ADI DAC which costs about 1/3 of the Ferrum combo!?!


Very nice review, but I think he talks about reference style presentation in this section rather than the performance which he covers in detail later on.

“This amp combo is one of the best pieces of gear you can buy period. Not only is it a powerful system with plenty of features, but its reference style sound output is in a league of its own, offering some of the purest detail that I’ve heard recently. Even though it’s quite a pricy product, the OOR and Hypnos are the perfect endgame amplifier for those looking for a professional system.” … I think he likes it in general 😅


----------



## MatW (Jan 15, 2022)

krude said:


> Oor has a full bodied, natural voicing. I would say it's sightly warm-neutral with rich midrange. You buy Oor over anything else I know of in the price range because you want clean, crisp, ultra detailed, but most importantly natural tuning, ultra low noise floor and black background even on sensitive iems, loads of power, at least 9W per channel if not more. It has bass, slam, dynamics, but it's not bass boosted, it has natural and textured bass with authority.


I'm a big fan of the OOR but to manage the expectations of possible buyers, it's not dead silent with IEMs. What one can hear obviously differs per person. I clearly hear some waterfall hiss.  Currently listening with the Legend EVO. It's pretty faint though, not a big issue for me.


----------



## krude

MatW said:


> I'm a big fan of the OOR but to manage the expectations of possible buyers, it's not dead silent with IEMs. What one can hear obviously differs per person. I clearly hear some waterfall hiss.  Currently listening with the Legend EVO. It's pretty faint though, not a big issue for me.


Interesting, on Odins I can't hear any noise, but maybe my hearing isn't as good or Legend Evo is even more sensitive. Its definitely the lowest noise floor amp with this power I've heard and by a signifficant margin.


----------



## sawindra

klaus2325 said:


> Majorhifi posted a „review“ of the Oor-Hypsos stack:
> https://majorhifi.com/ferrum-oor-with-hypsos-power-system-review/
> They say about the sound: „On a whole, the OOR gave me a similar impression to that of a Questyle amplifier like the CMA Twelve, or an RME device like the ADI-2“.
> That is a praise for RME ADI DAC which costs about 1/3 of the Ferrum combo!?!




maybe his ears need some TLC..i have the RME DAC-FS, both Ferrum and Burson destroys the headphone out. The only issue i had with Ferrum was that the gain switch didnt work, might be fixed now ( i tested it in Nov 21)


----------



## Menkau-ra

Basco said:


> Hey great you own a VC did you had the chance to listen to the Meze Liric and compare them?! I heard for VC sounds best with tube amps?! Worth trying a solid state amp like the OOR


No, I did not hear Liric yet and probably not planing to buy it. For VC I am using Lyr right now, but will upgrade to OTL amp soon.


----------



## Basco (Jan 15, 2022)

Menkau-ra said:


> No, I did not hear Liric yet and probably not planing to buy it. For VC I am using Lyr right now, but will upgrade to OTL amp soon.


Oh that means OTL in terms of the tube type?! Just learned that OTL and OPT are the two types then?! Got a particular amp in mind?!

I heard polish company Feliks Audio is into some nice tube amps that are OTL…maybe worth checking out also Trafomatic Head One got good reviews…


----------



## LarsMan

Basco said:


> Oh that means OTL in terms of the tube type?! Just learned that OTL and OPT are the two types then?! Got a particular amp in mind?!
> 
> I heard polish company Feliks Audio is into some nice tube amps that are OTL…maybe worth checking out also Trafomatic Head One got good reviews…


Auris Audio in Serbia, too! Quite a high-end audio scene in Eastern Europe....  My DeGritter record cleaning machine is from Estonia....


----------



## Menkau-ra

Basco said:


> Oh that means OTL in terms of the tube type?! Just learned that OTL and OPT are the two types then?! Got a particular amp in mind?!
> 
> I heard polish company Feliks Audio is into some nice tube amps that are OTL…maybe worth checking out also Trafomatic Head One got good reviews…


I am looking to get one of Bottlehead tube amps. They are DIY.


----------



## Neoaudiophile21

Menkau-ra said:


> I am looking to get one of Bottlehead tube amps. They are DIY.


I think doing one of the Bottlehead DIY would be awesome. I would just fear it would sound excellent and then I’d slide down an even deeper hole in this hobby wanting to do my own prototyping and trying to create something wild.


----------



## teknorob23

Gavin C4 said:


> I decided to compare the Ferrum Hypsos + OOR combo vs p750u again last night with a better-controlled variable.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



thank you this was a super helpful and insightful comparison. I'm just about to pull the trigger on the ferrum stack and i know the luxman well. The icing on the cake would be if anyone can report back versus the GSX Mk2. Thanks again


----------



## krude

An interesting Oor Hypsos review from Soundnews


----------



## teknorob23

krude said:


> An interesting Oor Hypsos review from Soundnews




reassuring as i placed my order this morning


----------



## rmsanger

krude said:


> An interesting Oor Hypsos review from Soundnews



His written reviews are equally fantastic and contains more details than the vids for anybody interested in a good read.

https://soundnews.net/amplifiers/he...he-funtastic-ferrum-audio-oor-and-hypsos-psu/


----------



## duranxv

I hope he's right! I was torn between the AHB2 and the OOR - but decided to pull the trigger on an OOR stack.  Really hope it's as good as they say!


----------



## Delta9K

duranxv said:


> decided to pull the trigger on an OOR stack. Really hope it's as good as they say!


I ordered one today too, so I guess we'll find out soon enough for ourselves.


----------



## LarsMan

duranxv said:


> I hope he's right! I was torn between the AHB2 and the OOR - but decided to pull the trigger on an OOR stack.  Really hope it's as good as they say!


I think that stack is REALLY good - I just got it a couple weeks ago and have been using it mostly with LCD-5's, and it rocks - plenty of bass, plenty of detail, no harshness at all; not what one would think of as 'solid state sounding'. It sounds nothing like Chord gear, for example; I preferred it to my DAVE and M Scaler, which I've since sold; nothing against it at all - it's great stuff; just not my particular taste. While it's not QUITE actual tube sounding, it can certainly compete with some tube amps I've got that cost considerably more, as far as the qualities l like - while there *is* plenty of 'holographic spacial 3D imaging' in the Oor, I still haven't heard a SS amp that can compete with tubes on that score. Enjoy!!!!


----------



## duranxv

LarsMan said:


> I think that stack is REALLY good - I just got it a couple weeks ago and have been using it mostly with LCD-5's, and it rocks - plenty of bass, plenty of detail, no harshness at all; not what one would think of as 'solid state sounding'. It sounds nothing like Chord gear, for example; I preferred it to my DAVE and M Scaler, which I've since sold; nothing against it at all - it's great stuff; just not my particular taste. While it's not QUITE actual tube sounding, it can certainly compete with some tube amps I've got that cost considerably more, as far as the qualities l like - while there *is* plenty of 'holographic spacial 3D imaging' in the Oor, I still haven't heard a SS amp that can compete with tubes on that score. Enjoy!!!!



I'm planning to pair it with  a WA22 as a tube pre-amp to get more of a hybrid sound


----------



## K3cT

teknorob23 said:


> thank you this was a super helpful and insightful comparison. I'm just about to pull the trigger on the ferrum stack and i know the luxman well. The icing on the cake would be if anyone can report back versus the GSX Mk2. Thanks again



This will be interesting, a comparison with the VOLOT will be informative as well.


----------



## teknorob23

K3cT said:


> This will be interesting, a comparison with the VOLOT will be informative as well.



soundnews has made this comparison but obvs hes mainly using it with susvara and i'm going to be mainly driving Utopias. I have the FA10 and FA12 amps. Speaking to Flux and the few friends who've bought the VOLOT, its tuned somewhere in the middle of these two, but with far better technicalities and obvs more power. Both 10 and 12 have fairly classic class A, but natural and resolving (for price point), with the 10 being more neutral and 12 being my favourite, slightly warmer with very special mids/treble. The Flux amps off incredible value for money, so you can expect the VOLOT to follow suit. The only reason i havent bought one is, space, it's pretty huge and i dont have the real estate. If they had a similar form factor i'd probably pic the VOLOT as FLA amps have an x-factor i've not heard elsewhere... apologies a lot of supposition here


----------



## K3cT

From soundnews it seems that the GS-X MK2 will have a sound profile that's more similar with the OOR since it's a pretty neutral amp. The VOLOT is probably more similar to the AMB Labs Beta22 that I used to own.


----------



## nekky

teknorob23 said:


> soundnews has made this comparison but obvs hes mainly using it with susvara and i'm going to be mainly driving Utopias. I have the FA10 and FA12 amps. Speaking to Flux and the few friends who've bought the VOLOT, its tuned somewhere in the middle of these two, but with far better technicalities and obvs more power. Both 10 and 12 have fairly classic class A, but natural and resolving (for price point), with the 10 being more neutral and 12 being my favourite, slightly warmer with very special mids/treble. The Flux amps off incredible value for money, so you can expect the VOLOT to follow suit. The only reason i havent bought one is, space, it's pretty huge and i dont have the real estate. If they had a similar form factor i'd probably pic the VOLOT as FLA amps have an x-factor i've not heard elsewhere... apologies a lot of supposition here


Sorry for being way off topic here.. but do you have any idea if the VOLOT will be released with a pre-amp function soon?  Not sure many people need 4x sets of inputs and to be able to pre-amp some Genelecs or something would be nice.


----------



## teknorob23

nekky said:


> Sorry for being way off topic here.. but do you have any idea if the VOLOT will be released with a pre-amp function soon?  Not sure many people need 4x sets of inputs and to be able to pre-amp some Genelecs or something would be nice.



I think you can special order the preamp now, have you messaged them, facebooks best and theyre normally super quick to respond


----------



## Delta9K

Hypsos & Orr arrived today. Letting them get acclimated indoors for a while, they've been out for delivery since 6:30 AM,  and they're a little cold considering the temp outside only reaching a high of 18F today.


----------



## krude

Delta9K said:


> Hypsos & Orr arrived today. Letting them get acclimated indoors for a while, they've been out for delivery since 6:30 AM,  and they're a little cold considering the temp outside only reaching a high of 18F today.


Enjoy  gonna be interesting to hear your impressions, your stack is formidable


----------



## tdx

FYI: 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tot...ing-3-wavelight-ferrum-oor-enleum-23r.961835/


----------



## skootb

has anyone compared this to the Pass Labs HPA1?


----------



## rmsanger

Delta9K said:


> Hypsos & Orr arrived today. Letting them get acclimated indoors for a while, they've been out for delivery since 6:30 AM,  and they're a little cold considering the temp outside only reaching a high of 18F today.



Looking forward to your thoughts on the oor+hyp vs. V550 with the Sus and D8k pro.   These are def 2 amps on my shopping list along with another 4 SS amps.


----------



## Basco

rmsanger said:


> Looking forward to your thoughts on the oor+hyp vs. V550 with the Sus and D8k pro.   These are def 2 amps on my shopping list along with another 4 SS amps.


Hi I thought I give my feedback for V280 FE which I compared along with the OOR (as Standalone). Definetly like the V280 FE better for it's warmer sound and better bass drive. The OOR sounded to bright and "sterile" for me. Wonderfully separate but when listening to music the Violectric definetely had this "oomph" kind of feeling that stared to move me and tapping my feed. Surly OOR might be better with HYPSOS and improve so I'm only writing for the OOR as a single amp unit here. 

The point for me was if it would have convinced me as standalone I would have kept it and upgrade along the road but this wasn't the case. Mostly for my kind of listening mostly to Electronical Music, Funk, Hip-Hop Violectric is the road to go.


----------



## dwong

Just jumping onto this thread and haven't had the time to read through all 50+ pages yet. I plan to use the Ferrum Oor + Hypsos paired with a Susvara. Has anyone found any noticeable sound quality differences between the XLR and 6.3mm headphone out, particularly with the Susvara?


----------



## FooFighter

dwong said:


> Just jumping onto this thread and haven't had the time to read through all 50+ pages yet. I plan to use the Ferrum Oor + Hypsos paired with a Susvara. Has anyone found any noticeable sound quality differences between the XLR and 6.3mm headphone out, particularly with the Susvara?



Output Power Single Ended: 400 mW into 300 Ω, 2 W into 60 Ω
Output Power Balanced: 1.600 mW into 300 Ω, 8 W into 60 Ω

Forget about the SE-port and get a balanced cable!


----------



## bluenight

Hi. 

I dident see any info if the fpl power link(the one cable to connect oor with hypsos)was included, on one webshop in my country i looked at. I  could pick them one and one and add to cart but it didn't seem bundled. 

With hypsos i could pick 2 cables 2.1mm or 2.5mm. Could one of them be the fpl power link? A bit confusing and no info on the cables. 

I read info on ferrum website that fpl can be  bought separatly. And is included on there website when bought bundled together. 

And. 
So there is no remote control for oor+hypsos? I havent seen any on the websites, but it was shown quickly on one youtube video, Remote Paring on the display options on hypsos. So could this be some future stuff coming or programable with other remotes of some sort.

Mostly i want to control volume.


----------



## FooFighter (Jan 31, 2022)

bluenight said:


> Hi.
> 
> I dident see any info if the fpl power link(the one cable to connect oor with hypsos)was included, on one webshop in my country i looked at. I  could pick them one and one and add to cart but it didn't seem bundled.
> 
> ...


"...4. Remote Pairing
Pairing procedure - Apple remote
Procedure can be done in two ways:
1. The Apple remote can be paired exclusively with HYPSOS.
2. The Apple remote can be paired with currently paired devices and with HYPSOS."
So 
- you can use an Apple Remote for Hypsos 
- no remote for OOR unfortunately

Regarding cable, I needed to pay extra for the OOR-HYPSOS cable and in the end had 2 cables in the box:
- Hypsos-OOR 
- generic cable for other devices


----------



## klaus2325

FooFighter said:


> "...4. Remote Pairing
> Pairing procedure - Apple remote
> Procedure can be done in two ways:
> 1. The Apple remote can be paired exclusively with HYPSOS.
> ...


Yes, remote for Oor would have been great
.


----------



## sc2806 (Jan 31, 2022)

bluenight said:


> Hi.
> 
> I dident see any info if the fpl power link(the one cable to connect oor with hypsos)was included, on one webshop in my country i looked at. I  could pick them one and one and add to cart but it didn't seem bundled.
> 
> ...


no remote, the dedicated 4 core cable was included from my dealer. Balanced design, only natural to use Oor with a balanced source and output


----------



## SuperDuke

Has anyone experienced a very audible Hum with the Hypsos - powered on by itself or with the OOR?  

I found this explanation of transformer hum (which is what it sounds like) :

"The core expands and contracts with the *alternating current*, which causes a humming sound. As the transformer ages, the layers within the core of the transformer begin to break apart and separate from one another. This causes the vibrations to get louder."

I wrote to Ferrum.  Hope this can be resolved.


----------



## krude

SuperDuke said:


> Has anyone experienced a very audible Hum with the Hypsos - powered on by itself or with the OOR?
> 
> I found this explanation of transformer hum (which is what it sounds like) :
> 
> ...


Mine is completely silent, hope you'll get it resolved soon.


----------



## FooFighter

krude said:


> Mine is completely silent, hope you'll get it resolved soon.


+1


----------



## kumar402 (Jan 31, 2022)

SuperDuke said:


> Has anyone experienced a very audible Hum with the Hypsos - powered on by itself or with the OOR?
> 
> I found this explanation of transformer hum (which is what it sounds like) :
> 
> ...


Sometime these transformers do make a noise but good LPS will not let them pass. Also what’s the voltage at your home if say transformer is for 110-220 but the voltage at home is 240 then we may have such hum

Just saw you are based out of US so scratch away my reasoning


----------



## sawindra

SuperDuke said:


> Has anyone experienced a very audible Hum with the Hypsos - powered on by itself or with the OOR?
> 
> I found this explanation of transformer hum (which is what it sounds like) :
> 
> ...




hmm..maybe have someone rotate the transformer. solved an issue on a component for me, some moons ago..


----------



## bluenight

FooFighter said:


> 1. The Apple remote can be paired exclusively with HYPSOS.
> 2. The Apple remote can be paired with currently paired devices and with HYPSOS."


So i cant control the volume in any way?

The bypass switch that makes it to an power amp works with HP listening?

And then i can use an pre amp like the one i see you have holo spring 3 with pre amp module?(Thats on my list to get also) With HP listening.

How's that paring also? Oor+hypsos Holo spring 3? 

Yeah i saw the thread in the high end section he ended up with this pairing. Always nice with more opinions.


----------



## bluenight

sc2806 said:


> Balanced design, only natural to use Oor with a balanced source and output


Yeah fully balanced and all that. But i saw the soundnews youtube video saying rca inputs gets the full power output at least. Maybe gets same signal path also and is as quiet?


----------



## krude

bluenight said:


> So i cant control the volume in any way?
> 
> The bypass switch that makes it to an power amp works with HP listening?
> 
> ...


Yes you can use it as a power amp, actually it's preferable for dynamics to have only one volume control in your chain.

Can't comment on Spring but works great with May.


----------



## FooFighter (Jan 31, 2022)

bluenight said:


> So i cant control the volume in any way?
> 
> The bypass switch that makes it to an power amp works with HP listening?
> 
> ...


yep, best pairing I had in my headphone live with a decent footprint in my relatively small listening space.

You re right about the power amp option - I haven't thought about it.
In theory you should be able to change the volume using the preamp volume.
This didn't work with my old source: Shanling M30 though - it didn't get loud enough for whatever reason.
So indeed it would be nice if someone could confirm that volume setting option in this forum.
Edit: @krude just confirmed - so May L2 does have the preamp-module built-in as it seems.

I got the Holo Audio Spring 3 without preamp module as I am anyway sitting at my desk in reach of the volume pot and don't need the extra volume of the preamp as the base model is yet powering my Susvaras and TCs up to a level where I am not getting over the 12 o'clock position on OOR...
So I have a remote control for the DAC but without use .
With the preamp-module built-in, it should work fine though...


----------



## krude

FooFighter said:


> yep, best pairing I had in my headphone live with a decent footprint in my relatively small listening space.
> You re right about the power amp option - I haven't thought about it.
> In theory you should be able to change the volume using the preamp volume.
> This didn't work with my old source: Shanling M30 though - it didn'T get loud enough for whatever reason.
> ...


Actually I don't have a preamp module, but it does work like that. Effectively disables Oors volume control so it's always full power. You need to be careful tho as it does have a lot of power on tap.


----------



## FooFighter

krude said:


> Actually I don't have a preamp module, but it does work like that. Effectively disables Oors volume control so it's always full power. You need to be careful tho as it does have a lot of power on tap.


wow, that's now interesting and sounds a bit dangerous for the ears...
So you tried that combo  and set the DAC volume only through software DSP  on the May or how did it work?

maybe someone with preamp module like @OneEyedHito should quickly confirm about the Spring 3 with remote connected to  OOR in poweramp mode  if he tried that before


----------



## OneEyedHito (Jan 31, 2022)

FooFighter said:


> yep, best pairing I had in my headphone live with a decent footprint in my relatively small listening space.
> 
> You re right about the power amp option - I haven't thought about it.
> In theory you should be able to change the volume using the preamp volume.
> ...


The Holo Audio MAY DOES NOT have a Preamp built in, it is DAC only.  The Ferrum Oor has a switch on the rear that you need to use a small screwdriver to turn where you can set it to Power Amp mode only and the Dynamics are improved using it in this manner with an outboard Preamp like the WA22 or WA33 or a few others I tried in my experience and to my ears.  I used it with the Holo Audio Spring 3 with PREAMP built in and it worked great in this manner, if you want a Holo Audio DAC with Preamp (which I highly recommend) then you need to get the Spring 3.


----------



## sawindra

maybe oor + ferrum dac ( being released in the enar future)?


----------



## FooFighter

sawindra said:


> maybe oor + ferrum dac ( being released in the enar future)?


Yep, I ve been waiting for that to happen last year and gave up 
- after some time after reading about their prototype status (must have linked the report somewhere in this thread)
- reading that they are "just" using the old Sabre chip from the Mytek Brooklyn (probably as they know it best) - that doesn't need to be bad perse but I wanted to get something special like a top R2R DAC


----------



## soundchaos

Speaking of spring 3…I’m looking to get an Oor stack and pair it with either a spring 3 KTE or a Yggy…any thoughts on which might be a better pairing for use with mainly ZMF VC’s and Focal Stellia and clear?


----------



## bluenight

OneEyedHito said:


> I used it with the Holo Audio Spring 3 with PREAMP built in and it worked great in this manner


I just want to confirm it was with HP listening? Power amp mode does not cut HP outputs off?


----------



## OneEyedHito (Jan 31, 2022)

bluenight said:


> I just want to confirm it was with HP listening? Power amp mode does not cut HP outputs off?


Correct the Source Signal is fed to the Preamplifier (WA22 or WA33 for instance) and attenuated in that device which sends that signal to the Ferrum Oor for output via the Oor HPO out.

There is some concern about blowing something up (not literally like an explosion but like a driver being fed too much volume) like a Utopia or even a Focal Clear if you were to just feed your full preamp signal to the Oor with a set of high sensitivity HP's connected but because you don't get volume control on the Oor in this scenario but if we are playing in the thousands of dollars of equipment we should be able to have enough care to not have this happen.  Did I really just type a 400 word sentence?

Since Head-Fi won't let me post these 3 characters side by side I will post an image of them:


----------



## OneEyedHito

phoenixbt said:


> Speaking of spring 3…I’m looking to get an Oor stack and pair it with either a spring 3 KTE or a Yggy…any thoughts on which might be a better pairing for use with mainly ZMF VC’s and Focal Stellia and clear?


If the Oor is strictly for feeding one of those HP's then it is a bit of overkill for the Price point.  That is my experience, GREAT AMP but it scales best with hard to drive cans and is geared towards them.


----------



## SuperDuke

Audio46 was great to allow me to return the Hypsos (hum noise mentioned above).  The U12t still sounds pretty good w/ just the OOR on low gain.   I definitely hear less noise w/ the Hypsos compared to the stock OOR power supply.


----------



## soundchaos

OneEyedHito said:


> If the Oor is strictly for feeding one of those HP's then it is a bit of overkill for the Price point.  That is my experience, GREAT AMP but it scales best with hard to drive cans and is geared towards them.


Thanks! That’s good advice and maybe will save me some $$ then haha. Maybe I’ll start with the DAC upgrade and go from there


----------



## sawindra




----------



## OneEyedHito

sawindra said:


>


Nice!  That and an Hypsos might be a great pairing for a system!  Looking forward to sonic impressions from the crowd here!


----------



## sawindra

hopefully they can offer a Y-cable/split dc cable so one hypsos can power both Oor and Erco, an econo option should be available to us..lol


----------



## FooFighter

they re really coming out with the DAC/amp - unbelievable.
Here's some first review I've just found - you guys can use Google Translate
http://highfidelity.pl/@main-4152&lang=

my reading impressions are though that the built-in amp is more for easier to drive cans and the DAC, well, let's wait for real user impressions


----------



## Menkau-ra

SuperDuke said:


> Audio46 was great to allow me to return the Hypsos (hum noise mentioned above).  The U12t still sounds pretty good w/ just the OOR on low gain.   I definitely hear less noise w/ the Hypsos compared to the stock OOR power supply.


Is that a QC issue? Is the noise happens only on U12t?


----------



## klaus2325

OneEyedHito said:


> If the Oor is strictly for feeding one of those HP's then it is a bit of overkill for the Price point.  That is my experience, GREAT AMP but it scales best with hard to drive cans and is geared towards them.


I‘ve tested the Oor (+ Hypsos) with my „easy to drive“ Empyrean. And it‘s a gorgeous combination. The Meze Empyrean sounds really more open, „fresh“, with more fine details and resolution. The stage is also wider. For _me_ a really great pairing. I will keep both…and will be very happy


----------



## teknorob23

24hrs burn-in and what change from the HPA4, two amps that couldnt be more different yet much to my surprise the Ferrum pair even after this short time appears to go toe to toe with the benchmark on detail, but staging extends on all axis and everything's got more shape. I have to concur with other Utopia users on the thread in that i've not heard the stage open up so wide even with tubes. All very promising


----------



## krude

teknorob23 said:


> 24hrs burn-in and what change from the HPA4, two amps that couldnt be more different yet much to my surprise the Ferrum pair even after this short time appears to go toe to toe with the benchmark on detail, but staging extends on all axis and everything's got more shape. I have to concur with other Utopia users on the thread in that i've not heard the stage open up so wide even with tubes. All very promising


Nice one, H+O pairs great with other TOTL sets as well if you ever want to experiment.


----------



## teknorob23

krude said:


> Nice one, H+O pairs great with other TOTL sets as well if you ever want to experiment.


 I can totally imagine it does, but having  been on a very enjoyable but costly trip around the TOTL headphone houses i ended up back where i started with the Utopias. Its the only headphone i have found that i can rely on for 100% for work and enjoy 99% for play. Maybe Utopia2 will provide the missing 1% or maybe the ORR/Hypsos will


----------



## kumar402

kumar402 said:


> If the Oor is strictly for feeding one of those HP's then it is a bit of overkill for the Price point.  That is my experience, GREAT AMP but it scales best with hard to drive cans and is geared towards them.


You have a good point but I don’t agree with it. A good amp is a good amp. Even with efficient headphones you get better macro and micro dynamics, bigger headstage, blacker background just to name a few.


----------



## OneEyedHito (Feb 1, 2022)

kumar402 said:


> You have a good point but I don’t agree with it. A good amp is a good amp. Even with efficient headphones you get better macro and micro dynamics, bigger headstage, blacker background just to name a few.


@kumar402 that was my post and I understand & appreciate  your viewpoint.  Thanks for commenting.


----------



## Gavin C4

Given the quality of OOR that Ferrum makes, I am really excited for the new DAC amp combo. But a DAC amp combo is a very ambiguous project cuz it is much harder than a pure amp. The tuning must be on point. Hope Ferrum can execute it well. See if we will get a unique Ferrum house sound or a similar tuning with Mytek alternatives.


----------



## Gavin C4

FooFighter said:


> Yep, I ve been waiting for that to happen last year and gave up
> - after some time after reading about their prototype status (must have linked the report somewhere in this thread)
> - reading that they are "just" using the old Sabre chip from the Mytek Brooklyn (probably as they know it best) - that doesn't need to be bad perse but I wanted to get something special like a top R2R DAC


Cost of too R2R require a lot of RnD in it. Even Mytek does not have the knowledge of using R2R. Ferrum may not have a funding to go for a r2r. Hopefully the third product a pure DAC , we could get a R2R dac with Ferrum tuning. So that we can pair with OOR to form a 4 Box ultimate solution with matching colors. 

Now you can get the Holo May with Ferrum OOR and Hypsos to get that dream combo.


----------



## teknorob23

Gavin C4 said:


> Cost of too R2R require a lot of RnD in it. Even Mytek does not have the knowledge of using R2R. Ferrum may not have a funding to go for a r2r. Hopefully the third product a pure DAC , we could get a R2R dac with Ferrum tuning. So that we can pair with OOR to form a 4 Box ultimate solution with matching colors.
> 
> Now you can get the Holo May with Ferrum OOR and Hypsos to get that dream combo.



Unless the holo may and serene is better???


----------



## FooFighter

Gavin C4 said:


> .
> 
> Now you can get the Holo May with Ferrum OOR and Hypsos to get that dream combo.


I really wanted that small form factor combo and also thought about Mytek Brooklyn Bridge II before also for the built in Streamer capabilities.
After reading many forums and reviews and seeking advice from other Headfiers  I went for the Spring 3 KTE and am not looking back - could be my endgame combo, but who knows in our hobby 😉


----------



## LarsMan

Gavin C4 said:


> Cost of too R2R require a lot of RnD in it. Even Mytek does not have the knowledge of using R2R. Ferrum may not have a funding to go for a r2r. Hopefully the third product a pure DAC , we could get a R2R dac with Ferrum tuning. So that we can pair with OOR to form a 4 Box ultimate solution with matching colors.
> 
> Now you can get the Holo May with Ferrum OOR and Hypsos to get that dream combo.


I can testify that is a very dreamy combo!


----------



## FooFighter

teknorob23 said:


> Unless the holo may and serene is better???


I agree, that could be a very tempting endgame combo which I again couldn't stand waiting for.
Due to my small space requirements I nevertheless think that the Ferrum stack is really a great value


----------



## sawindra

Gavin C4 said:


> Cost of too R2R require a lot of RnD in it. Even Mytek does not have the knowledge of using R2R. Ferrum may not have a funding to go for a r2r. Hopefully the third product a pure DAC , we could get a R2R dac with Ferrum tuning. So that we can pair with OOR to form a 4 Box ultimate solution with matching colors.
> 
> Now you can get the Holo May with Ferrum OOR and Hypsos to get that dream combo.



R2R is the easiest and most basic way of developing a dac. it' requires no RND.


----------



## FooFighter (Feb 3, 2022)

sawindra said:


> R2R is the easiest and most basic way of developing a dac. it' requires no RND.


I think it's not about R2R perse but about the whole integration.
Holo Audio is the only company building R2R DACs with specs like dynamic range on par or even superseding Delta Sigma competition. In the end it is a matter of taste and use case wether to opt for Delta Sigma or FGPA or R2R.
There are relevant differences in sound presentation and possible processing / tuning within e.g upsampling hardware / software like Mscaler vs HQPlayer etc


----------



## teknorob23

FooFighter said:


> I think it's not about R2R perse but about the whole integration.
> Holo Audio is the only company building R2R DACs with specs like dynamic range on par or even superseding Delta Sigma competition. In the end it is a matter of taste and use case wether to opt for Delta Sigma or FGPA or R2R.
> There are relevant differences in sound presentation and possible processing / tuning within e.g upsampling hardware / software like Mscaler vs HQPlayer etc



I completely agree, in my experience R2R, delta sigma, etc matters less than the implementation especially in the area of power. I thought Mola Mola was my end game as it offered a middle ground between May and DAVE/HMS, then i heard the Musetec MH-DA005 which uses off the shelf sabre chips and much to my surprise/shock, it made the Mola Mola sound veiled and a bit sluggish with its superior clarity and transparency, but i also found it preferable to the may, which i was also very taken with, in terms of ease, shape, depth, layering and sense of space.


----------



## krude

teknorob23 said:


> I completely agree, in my experience R2R, delta sigma, etc matters less than the implementation especially in the area of power. I thought Mola Mola was my end game as it offered a middle ground between May and DAVE/HMS, then i heard the Musetec MH-DA005 which uses off the shelf sabre chips and much to my surprise/shock, it made the Mola Mola sound veiled and a bit sluggish with its superior clarity and transparency, but i also found it preferable to the may, which i was also very taken with, in terms of ease, shape, depth, layering and sense of space.


Interesting, Ferrum has the power down with Hypsos, so let's see what they can build on top of that. I also wouldn't underestimate the amount of RND needed for any product of this class, especially that they are still establishing their house sound and brand in general ... they pretty much have to knock it out of the park for the brand to leap forward. Fingers crossed.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Feb 3, 2022)

sawindra said:


> R2R is the easiest and most basic way of developing a dac. it' requires no RND.



In high end audio, its not only about using R2R to produce the sound. There are tons of competitor out there, being able to produce sound is not enough to survive. you got to sound really good with your DAC. This is not an easy task especially with R2R. Even minor fluctuation of electric current matters. There are a lot more effort into the tuning etc and making sure the detail, spaciousness, sound stage etc.


----------



## SuperDuke

Gavin C4 said:


> In high end audio, its not only about using R2R to produce the sound. There are tons of competitor out there, being able to produce sound is not enough to survive. you got to sound really good with your DAC. This is not an easy task especially with R2R. Even minor fluctuation of electric current matters. There are a lot more effort into the tuning etc and making sure the detail, spaciousness, sound stage etc.




I have found the Border Patrol DAC to be superb with the OOR stack.  It does use an older R2R chip however I think he may have used his knowledge building excellent power supplies for Big Triode amps and applied it there.  I had to down sample some of my hi rez files since the BP DAC only supports up to 96/24 yet I've not missed the higher rez files at all.


----------



## gonzalo1004es

For those of you who’ve been able to try both Oor and Soloist 3X, would you say the Oor is clearly an upgrade over the Soloist? Thanks!


----------



## sawindra

gonzalo1004es said:


> For those of you who’ve been able to try both Oor and Soloist 3X, would you say the Oor is clearly an upgrade over the Soloist? Thanks!


The Oor is accurate, precise , transparent, clean while still being musical.

The bursons thx to interchangeable op-amps , has the ability sound like whatever you want it sound .. 

Trust your ears


----------



## gonzalo1004es

sawindra said:


> The Oor is accurate, precise , transparent, clean while still being musical.
> 
> The bursons thx to interchangeable op-amps , has the ability sound like whatever you want it sound ..
> 
> Trust your ears


Thanks, I already own the Soloist but I have no way to audition the Oor, unfortunately, otherwise I would obviously trust my ears


----------



## krude

gonzalo1004es said:


> Thanks, I already own the Soloist but I have no way to audition the Oor, unfortunately, otherwise I would obviously trust my ears


I have the 3xp, GT and Oor at home right now. Oor is the most detailed and natural of the bunch with superior mid range detail and top end tonality to my ears. Depends if you're looking to get it with Hypsos at some point or not. Oor without the Hypsos is half of the package sonically. Also depends on your cans, the better resolution set you have the more of an upgrade Oor + Hypsos would be.


----------



## gonzalo1004es

krude said:


> I have the 3xp, GT and Oor at home right now. Oor is the most detailed and natural of the bunch with superior mid range detail and top end tonality to my ears. Depends if you're looking to get it with Hypsos at some point or not. Oor without the Hypsos is half of the package sonically. Also depends on your cans, the better resolution set you have the more of an upgrade Oor + Hypsos would be.


Thanks! Would you place the Soloist at the same level of the Oor if not using Hypsos? It would be used almost exclusively with Susvaras.


----------



## krude (Feb 4, 2022)

Ooof, Susvara, in that case get Oor and save up for Hypsos 🤷‍♂️ with this level of sets you're in for apenny, in for a pound


----------



## LarsMan

krude said:


> Ooof, Susvara, in that case get Oor and save up for Hypsos 🤷‍♂️ with this level of sets you're in for the penny, in for the pound


Another amp I just recently got that is right up there with the Ferrum Stack is the Enleum 23R - after that's been broken in properly, I'm going to have to have a contest between them to see which I prefer - maybe I'll keep both, but I've also got my tube amps, so I gotta cut something loose!


----------



## Terriero

sawindra said:


>


From the front pic, it seems that it has an IR receiver (between 4,4 input and input selector) but no remote controller is mentioned in the specifications (I took a look at Ferrum web)


----------



## LarsMan

Terriero said:


> From the front pic, it seems that it has an IR receiver (between 4,4 input and input selector) but no remote controller is mentioned in the specifications (I took a look at Ferrum web)


I didn't even know that this 'ERCO' was out! So it's basically an Oor with a DAC incorporated into it for an extra $400? I'd be interested to know how that sounds compared to say, a Holo May DAC into a Hypsos/Oor stack.


----------



## Terriero

LarsMan said:


> I didn't even know that this 'ERCO' was out! So it's basically an Oor with a DAC incorporated into it for an extra $400? I'd be interested to know how that sounds compared to say, a Holo May DAC into a Hypsos/Oor stack.


Yes, it was launched this week. Looks good but I wonder about that "receiver".


----------



## Volote

I've been having my eye on the Ferrum stack for late this year (paying off the TT2 and LCD-5). The Erco looks enticing, but since I have the TT2, the stack still looks more delicious.


----------



## llamaluv

Hi, 

Has anyone tried using the Hypsos to power any of their other audio components? And if so, did the Hypsos make an appreciable difference?

Just curious, really.

Thanks.


----------



## OneEyedHito (Feb 4, 2022)

Terriero said:


> From the front pic, it seems that it has an IR receiver (between 4,4 input and input selector) but no remote controller is mentioned in the specifications (I took a look at Ferrum web)


That looks like a power light not an IR receiver to me, IR receivers areblack (well really really dark red actually for the Infrared light transmission) and not greenish.

EDIT: I was correct that is a power light, just saw this unboxing video on the Ferrum site:

_*Ferrum ERCO Unboxing - It just become a thing!*_

_**_

A 2nd EDIT: I am happy to see them do away with the 4-pin XLR balanced output even though most of my headphone cables are 4-pin, the industry needs to go away from 4-pin for headphone connections, it is overkill, over consuming (materials wise), and over with now that 4.4 balanced is adopted from the AM Cable Community!


----------



## sc2806 (Feb 4, 2022)

bluenight said:


> Yeah fully balanced and all that. But i saw the soundnews youtube video saying rca inputs gets the full power output at least. Maybe gets same signal path also and is as quiet?


Yes, the signal is converted to balanced inside then converted back to single-ended at the output.  I find the balanced outputs have a wider bandwidth, better dynamic range and, more neutral-sounding in my system. YMMV, choose whichever sounds better to you.


----------



## sc2806

llamaluv said:


> Hi,
> 
> Has anyone tried using the Hypsos to power any of their other audio components? And if so, did the Hypsos make an appreciable difference?
> 
> ...


I'm using the Hypsos on my ultraRendu too. It's better than their own Signature Power Supply. The background is quieter, the music has better more dynamic range, the bass and highs have more subtleties and seem to be rendered more naturally. It got even better when they updated the firmware, all of the above was slightly enhanced. YMMV.


----------



## Terriero

OneEyedHito said:


> That looks like a power light not an IR receiver to me, IR receivers areblack (well really really dark red actually for the Infrared light transmission) and not greenish.
> 
> EDIT: I was correct that is a power light, just saw this unboxing video on the Ferrum site:
> 
> ...



No remote, no fun!  They would do like Flux labs and sell apart (or for the same price) a remote with an IR receiver.


----------



## Pete Gardner

Purchased the oor yesterday and it's a stunning upgrade to my integrated Luxman 507ux headphone stage. 
However, it runs pretty hot and there is no on/off. Is it designed to always be on? I have been unplugging it as I'm reluctant to leave it on 24/7


----------



## MatW

Pete Gardner said:


> Purchased the oor yesterday and it's a stunning upgrade to my integrated Luxman 507ux headphone stage.
> However, it runs pretty hot and there is no on/off. Is it designed to always be on? I have been unplugging it as I'm reluctant to leave it on 24/7


If you put the switch in the center position it is “off“. The light may still be burning (which you can change too btw) but it should not be running hot. Sounds like you don’t have the Hypsos. There is an on/off button on the back of the Hypsos that I use to switch the stack off completely.


----------



## Pete Gardner

Thanks MatW. Just read up about it myself. I have a Hypsos but it has been powering an innuos zen mini3 for 12 mths and  is an amazing product. To use it with oor would clearly be an improvement for hp listening but would diminish my 2 ch setup which gets 50% of my listening time. I will def be adding a 2nd Hypsos at some point


----------



## Delta9K (Feb 6, 2022)

krude said:


> and the answer is it has more than enough and then some. For normal listening I keep it at 10 o clock and still getting more than enough volume and dynamics. 12 o clock and you can rock out and start damaging your hearing.


Hi - is this with the gain set at 0dB ? just curious, thanks


----------



## LarsMan

Terriero said:


> No remote, no fun!  They would do like Flux labs and sell apart (or for the same price) a remote with an IR receiver.


Indeed; that's another thing I like about the Enleum - it has a remote....


----------



## Gavin C4

The OOR, Hypsos a really detail and dynamic amp. It really controls everything really well. This slight warmth but very clean sound might be the Ferrum house sound. You don't really find this in much solid-state amp.


----------



## krude

I thought I'll post my not-glamorous-at-all and actually looking like a bit of a dump work setup 🤣 my excuse is we're moving house soon, but on the flipside not every setup needs to look posh to sound good


----------



## rsbrsvp

Any direct comparisons of oor and hypsos to Bakoon r23?


----------



## LarsMan

rsbrsvp said:


> Any direct comparisons of oor and hypsos to Bakoon r23?


I'm still working on it.... I'll wait till the Enleum has broken in for a few weeks before I make a decision, but so far, they are both very enjoyable listens!


----------



## rsbrsvp (Feb 9, 2022)

A dealer came over yesterday and brought the oor and hypsos.  It was very different than any amp. I heard.

It was IMHO a smooth, musical, fluid sound which was beautiful.  I agree with the ads of the company that it has a soul.

It is however less technically transparent and detailed and punchy than my audio-gd HE-9.   I did really liked the musicality- it was very unique..

Definitely not the last word in technical performance (but still very very good). Maybe close to the last word in musicality and beauty...  I am considering it seriously...

Funny, the reviews claim it is incredibly transparent and detailed.  I found it more musical and meatier in presentation.   I may need to try again as my impressions do not seem to match the reviews.


----------



## FooFighter

rsbrsvp said:


> Any direct comparisons of oor and hypsos to Bakoon r23?


You can also check the review of our fellow Headfier @tdx  which I enjoyed reading 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tot...ing-3-wavelight-ferrum-oor-enleum-23r.961835/


----------



## krude (Feb 9, 2022)

rsbrsvp said:


> A dealer came over yesterday and brought the oor and hypsos.  It was very different than any amp. I heard.
> 
> It was IMHO a smooth, musical, fluid sound which was beautiful.  I agree with the ads of the company that it has a soul.
> 
> ...


I was thinking about the technical bit as well. I think it depends what people consider detail. There are 2 parts to it, one is the tuning related perception of detail and the other is actual detail. I would compare Oor to Utopia, bc most people have some experience with it.

At first Utopia sounds like a mediocre set, there are some reviewers out there that summed it up as "nothing special, not really excelling at anything", my non audiophile friend came over recently and after listening to my sets outright claimed his DT770 Pro sounds better, I had one in storage  we did some back to back and he was still claiming DT770 Pro is a lot more detailed and transparent and Utopia sounds muffled and mediocre ...

And here lies the detail perception problem. You need to spend a good few days with certain gear to understand what it's doing. Utopia is one of the detail kings and one of the best sets you can buy IMO, period. But there is a lot of people who will judge it when doing a short session and percieve it as rubbish at detail, because it sounds smooth etc.


----------



## LarsMan

rsbrsvp said:


> A dealer came over yesterday and brought the oor and hypsos.  It was very different than any amp. I heard.
> 
> It was IMHO a smooth, musical, fluid sound which was beautiful.  I agree with the ads of the company that it has a soul.
> 
> ...


I would concur with your 'musical and meatier' description....


----------



## LarsMan

krude said:


> I was thinking about the technical bit as well. I think it depends what people consider detail. There are 2 parts to it, one is the tuning related perception of detail and the other is actual detail. I would compare Oor to Utopia, bc most people have some experience with it.
> 
> At first Utopia sounds like a mediocre set, there are some reviewers out there that summed it up as "nothing special, not really excelling at anything", my non audiophile friend came over recently and after listening to my sets outright claimed his DT770 Pro sounds better, I had one in storage  we did some back to back and he was still claiming DT770 Pro is a lot more detailed and transparent and Utopia sounds muffled and mediocre ...
> 
> And here lies the detail perception problem. You need to spend a good few days with certain gear to understand what it's doing. Utopia is one of the detail kings and one of the best sets you can buy IMO, period. But there is a lot of people who will judge it when doing a short session and percieve it as rubbish at detail, because it sounds smooth etc.


When I first got Utopias, I was using a Lyr 3 as my headphone amp, and after a few months, I was getting ready to sell them, because I just couldn't get what the fuss was about. Nothing special. When I replaced the Lyr 3 with a Quicksilver tube headphone amp, the Utopias opened up a whole new world of 3-D and holographic sound I'd not experienced before! I could mentally walk around through the music with all that tubey-depth! No longer have the Quicksilver but still have the Utopias!


----------



## krude (Feb 9, 2022)

LarsMan said:


> When I first got Utopias, I was using a Lyr 3 as my headphone amp, and after a few months, I was getting ready to sell them, because I just couldn't get what the fuss was about. Nothing special. When I replaced the Lyr 3 with a Quicksilver tube headphone amp, the Utopias opened up a whole new world of 3-D and holographic sound I'd not experienced before! I could mentally walk around through the music with all that tubey-depth! No longer have the Quicksilver but still have the Utopias!


Yeah like most flagships it's very transparent aka aplification picky. I was demoing on my current stack using all 3 amps, so May L2 -> Oor+Hypsos | Soloist GT | Cayin HA6a ... and as far as I understood the outcome from the listener was DT770 Pro is a lot more detailed because it had more top end snap. It's an extreme example because it's hard to argue with someone who doesn't listen critically, but I'm sure said person would start noticing a whole universe of nuances Utopia hides under it's smooth surface given enough head time. In the same way Oor is not shouty or flashy, but the midrgange clarity I get from it is second to none from what I've listenend to. Granted you can probably get even more from amps that go 2x and more it's price bracket, but I haven't heard any of those summit-fi amps yet. Even if you talk about amps like Accuphase, someone willl come out and say Nagra soudns better ... and probably it does  but for a price of a half decent car it bloody well shoud.


----------



## rsbrsvp

LarsMan said:


> I would concur with your 'musical and meatier' description....


The dealer said he had it on voltage on the PS at 30 which I believe which gives the meatiest signature.

I loved the meat...  Maybe more like chocolate.   Question is how much I loose in technicalities- and I need more time to see.  It sounded so beautiful, it may not matter...


----------



## krude (Feb 9, 2022)

rsbrsvp said:


> The dealer said he had it on voltage on the PS at 30 which I believe which gives the meatiest signature.
> 
> I loved the meat...  Maybe more like chocolate.   Question is how much I loose in technicalities- and I need more time to see.  It sounded so beautiful, it may not matter...


By far the best voltage imo is nominal 24v. Out of curiousity what do you mean by technicalities / detail being lost using Oor? Which armps are you comparing with?


----------



## Dr_Hibbert

would a chord qutest have enough output voltage (3v?) to drive the ferrum stack with a susvara?


----------



## OneEyedHito

Dr_Hibbert said:


> would a chord qutest have enough output voltage (3v?) to drive the ferrum stack with a susvara?


Yes, the +16db gain on the Oor more than makes up for a nominal 3V output on the DAC while a 5.7V from some others would obviously bring more to the table. You can also set the Hypsos to 30V output as stated above and that does bring ‘more’ to the sound.

Ideally someone here will reply with direct experience to the Cutest and OOR though to give you real world experience versus just numbers.


----------



## LarsMan

Dr_Hibbert said:


> would a chord qutest have enough output voltage (3v?) to drive the ferrum stack with a susvara?


Don't know for sure, but my guess would be that it would be fine. I think most of the onus on driving the Susvara should be on the amp more than the DAC, though I know the DAC enters into the equation as well - that Holo May puts out a lot of voltage, especially through the balanced output; when I run it into my Auris Nirvana headphone amp, the balanced output is kinda TOO much; not much room at all to move on the volume control. From the SE output on the DAC, it's less and I can power my Susvaras just fine through that...


----------



## ToddRaymond

See, @rsbrsvp, now you got me second guessing the OOR + Hypsos stack just a bit.  From all accounts, I believe it will tick all my boxes in terms the overall presentation of the sound (the timbre, the tonality, the texture), and its versatility as far as being able to power my IEMs (which is all I currently have, but there will be times working from home at night where I will continue to use 'em), as well as an eventual set of Susvaras.  But will things be _too_ smoothed over?  Meanwhile, the HE-9 may be a bit underpowered for the Susvaras, and from my impressions of previously having owned a Master 9, it could be a _almost_ too neutral.

I wonder what your impression of the OOR would have been like with the Hyspsos set at a lower voltage.

On a side note, I also wonder about eventually using an HE-1 preamp into the OOR (in power amp mode).

Ideally for my preferences, the OOR would more detailed than the iCan Pro Signature.


----------



## rsbrsvp (Feb 9, 2022)

I thought the HE-9 was more powerful than the oor?  And- yes- it is very neutral.  I owned the M9 and the HE-9 is more neutral, and more adhortative in its drive.  the oor is more chocolatier.  I like what I heard...


----------



## OneEyedHito

ToddRaymond said:


> Ideally for my preferences, the OOR would more detailed than the iCan Pro Signature.


It is.  I’ve had both.


----------



## rsbrsvp

oor= 8 watts into 60 ohm

HE-9= 9 watt at 40 ohm

I don't know how to understand these technical terms.  Which is more powerful?


----------



## dudeX

rsbrsvp said:


> oor= 8 watts into 60 ohm
> 
> HE-9= 9 watt at 40 ohm
> 
> I don't know how to understand these technical terms.  Which is more powerful?


The OOR is more powerful. Generally the higher the Ohms for a speaker/headphone, the less power is provided because it's sucking out more current.
Imagine an amp that is 100 watts at 4 Ohms that has linear power usage. Then at 8 ohms, it will provide 50 watts, at 16 Ohms 25 watts, and so on.
The Susvara is a 60 Ohm headphone, so the fact that it's providing 8 watts is a flag that it's going to work well on the Susvara.
The HE-9 would be slightless less than 8 W at 60 Ohms for the Susvara. But if Susvara is not your main focus, then it's powerful enough to drive almost any headphone. The question is though, can it provide that power without clipping. There are measurements for the OOR (provided by Golden Sound) that show that it has very stable power at high demand.


----------



## rsbrsvp (Feb 9, 2022)

dudeX said:


> The OOR is more powerful. Generally the higher the Ohms for a speaker/headphone, the less power is provided because it's sucking out more current.
> Imagine an amp that is 100 watts at 4 Ohms that has linear power usage. Then at 8 ohms, it will provide 50 watts, at 16 Ohms 25 watts, and so on.
> The Susvara is a 60 Ohm headphone, so the fact that it's providing 8 watts is a flag that it's going to work well on the Susvara.
> The HE-9 would be slightless less than 8 W at 60 Ohms for the Susvara. But if Susvara is not your main focus, then it's powerful enough to drive almost any headphone. The question is though, can it provide that power without clipping. There are measurements for the OOR (provided by Golden Sound) that show that it has very stable power at high demand.


I appreciate this- but still not sure I am getting it.  I'm a bit slow.

At 60 ohm the oor provides 8 watt of power and at 40 ohm the HE-9 provides 9 watt of power.   So even thought the HE-9 has a slightly higher watt output than the oor in this comparison, since this watt output is at substantially lower ohms- it is less powerful.  Is this correct or way off?

I really want to understand this once and for all...

Now just for better understanding-  a headphone amp. like the CFA-3 is 16watt at 50 ohm.  Here, the watts is double that of the oor- yet at only slightly less ohms. (50 vs 60).  This amp is seemingly substantially more powerful than the oor.   Is this correct?


----------



## OneEyedHito

Ohms & Output watts are relative to each other on a scale. That’s it. Yes the CFA is more powerful overall at the given ohm range of tiny little speakers like headphones with such high impedance loads. Google Ohms to Output wattage relation in speakers.


----------



## ToddRaymond

OneEyedHito said:


> It is.  I’ve had both.


Thank you!!


----------



## rsbrsvp

OneEyedHito said:


> Ohms & Output watts are relative to each other on a scale. That’s it. Yes the CFA is more powerful overall at the given ohm range of tiny little speakers like headphones with such high impedance loads. Google Ohms to Output wattage relation in speakers.


Than I really don't get it yet.

Shouldn't more watts into less ohms be more powerful?   The HE-9 outputs more watts into less ohms than the oor??????


----------



## MatW

rsbrsvp said:


> Than I really don't get it yet.
> 
> Shouldn't more watts into less ohms be more powerful?   The HE-9 outputs more watts into less ohms than the oor??????


It's an inverse relationship. So 9w at 40 ohm = 4.5w at 80 ohm. And 6.75w at 60 ohm. So less than the 8w at 60 ohm for the OOR. But the difference is not substantial.


----------



## rsbrsvp

MatW said:


> It's an inverse relationship. So 9w at 40 ohm = 4.5w at 80 ohm. And 6.75w at 60 ohm. So less than the 8w at 60 ohm for the OOR. But the difference is not substantial.


Now- I think I get it... Thank you...


----------



## Gavin C4

What makes the OOR and Hypsos shine is the presentation of the music. On raw power stats, it is top tier that basically handles all planar headphone without a sweat. What makes this amp special is the amount of detail you get and the balance in warmth. All of it is presented very nicely. Even comparing with top end SS amps out there, its like switching from 4K Tv to 8K TV with HDR. That’s really insane.


----------



## rsbrsvp

Is the oor class A?  I think I saw A/B?

If this is correct- what does it mean?  In other words- isn't class A better than Class A/B, and shouldn't a $3000 headphone amp be class A throughout?

I'd appreciate some explanation..


----------



## LarsMan

rsbrsvp said:


> Is the oor class A?  I think I saw A/B?
> 
> If this is correct- what does it mean?  In other words- isn't class A better than Class A/B, and shouldn't a $3000 headphone amp be class A throughout?
> 
> I'd appreciate some explanation..


I'm not sure it's an explanation, but you can't just generalize that 'class A is _better_ than class A/B' or such; I think that whether it's class A, A/B, or D, a well-designed and engineered amp _should_ sound 'better' than one that is not as well designed/engineered. So I wouldn't worry overmuch about it. 

Of course, what sounds 'better' to one person may sound 'not as good' to somebody else....


----------



## Levanter

Anyone uses OOR with HD800S?


----------



## krude

Levanter said:


> Anyone uses OOR with HD800S?


Works great with HD800


----------



## OneEyedHito (Feb 10, 2022)

rsbrsvp said:


> Is the oor class A?  I think I saw A/B?
> 
> If this is correct- what does it mean?  In other words- isn't class A better than Class A/B, and shouldn't a $3000 headphone amp be class A throughout?
> 
> I'd appreciate some explanation..


You’ve been here since 2005, you have over 1000 posts, I appreciate that you have a lot of questions so I have to ask you one in return. Are you trolling?


----------



## OneEyedHito

krude said:


> Works great with HD800


I concur with this finding.


----------



## rsbrsvp

What does trolling mean?

My question is to those who understand technical issues.  I am considering buying this amp.  I heard it and it sounds fantastic.  I want to know if technically- Class A is technically than Class A/B or if this is incorrect.  I want to know this because the oor is class a/b and i want to understand the ramifications.  I am asking help from technically minded head-fiers.  I am not technically able.

Is there something wrong with this question?


----------



## rsbrsvp (Feb 10, 2022)

Wow-  I just looked up trolling.   No I am not intentionally trying to provocate anyone.

I want to understand before I buy something.   Of course I have seen comments that Class A is better than A/B- but I want to ask those who know better than me if this is true or I am not properly informed?  Many comments on headfi- including my own are opinions that are not necessarily technically true.  I ask for clarification.


----------



## OneEyedHito

rsbrsvp said:


> What does trolling mean?
> 
> My question is to those who understand technical issues.  I am considering buying this amp.  I heard it and it sounds fantastic.  I want to know if technically- Class A is technically than Class A/B or if this is incorrect.  I want to know this because the oor is class a/b and i want to understand the ramifications.  I am asking help from technically minded head-fiers.  I am not technically able.
> 
> Is there something wrong with this question?


Your questions so far on this thread are ‘relatively’ common knowledge questions for someone that’s been here a while (you have) and are all pointing in the direction of negative comparison or flaws of the Oor. That lends toward stealth trolling, that’s all. Also the Oor isn’t $3000.


----------



## OneEyedHito

rsbrsvp said:


> Wow-  I just looked up trolling.   No I am not intentionally trying to provocate anyone.
> 
> I want to understand before I buy something.   Of course I have seen comments that Class A is better than A/B- but I want to ask those who know better than me if this is true or I am not properly informed?  Many comments on headfi- including my own are opinions that are not necessarily technically true.  I ask for clarification.


Understood, thanks for replying!!


----------



## rsbrsvp (Feb 10, 2022)

OneEyedHito said:


> Your questions so far on this thread are ‘relatively’ common knowledge questions for someone that’s been here a while (you have) and are all pointing in the direction of negative comparison or flaws of the Oor. That lends toward stealth trolling, that’s all. Also the Oor isn’t $3000.


I said in my earlier post that the oor is the most beautiful sounding amp. I ever heard.  Not exactly an insult.

Watts and amps- I truly do not understand and I thought I could ask my friends here on headfi.  I see no negativity here.

A vs. A/B is a legitimate question.  If you know the answer- please answer.  If not, don't.  Either way it does not change how much I liked what I heard on the oor.

I have not said ONE SINGLE negative comment on the oor.  I have just stated my impressions based on my listening session; the most musical amp. I ever heard with delicious chocolaty full sound, and also very good technicalities, just not the best I ever heard.

If I cant talk out these issues because you are oversensitive, than I will stop.....  No problem.


----------



## rsbrsvp (Feb 10, 2022)

Truth is, I am considering buying a hybrid (tube input) CFA-3 which is class A, and much more powerful than the oor and is very well respected as well.  I am so smitten by the oor based on what I heard, I am reconsidering and therefore trying to gather information to decide what to do..

My dealer here in Israel wants around $3000 for the oor and the Hypsos- so this is the correct price for me.  The CFA-3 hybrid is around $4,000.  Price is not the issue- it is sound....


----------



## OneEyedHito

rsbrsvp said:


> I said in my earlier post that the oor is the most beautiful sounding amp. I ever heard.  Not exactly an insult.
> 
> Watts and amps- I truly do not understand and I thought I could ask my friends here on headfi.  I see no negativity here.
> 
> ...


You are fine, I asked, you answered and I appreciate your situation. I let my ears be the final judge over opinions, graphs, charts, videos, and marketing. I find the WA22 to be a beautiful sounding AMP, sonically on par with the WA33 (without the power of course) but you’d be hard pressed to find many opinions, graphs, charts, videos, and marketing to find the same. 

Your A vs A/B question was answered accurately a few posts ago.


----------



## OneEyedHito

rsbrsvp said:


> Truth is, I am considering buying a hybrid (tube input) CFA-3 which is class A, and much more powerful than the oor and is very well respected as well.  I am so smitten by the oor based on what I heard, I am reconsidering and therefore trying to gather information to decide what to do..
> 
> My dealer here in Israel wants around $3000 for the oor and the Hypsos- so this is the correct price for me.  THe CFA-3 hybrid is around $4,000.  Moeny is not the issue- it is sound....


Do you have Susvara still? I much prefer the Oor with Hypsos versus Oor alone and for me they are a combo or nothing proposition.


----------



## rsbrsvp (Feb 10, 2022)

I sold my Susvara.   Interesting that in my audition with the oor, we had a TC, Susvara, and LCD-5.  I preferred the 5 as I find the Susvara a bit soft, although it did sound wonderful.  Others who were here preferred the Susvara as they thought the 5 was to mid centric and the Susvara was more open sounding.  I listen to modern genres and prefer the 5 because it is more visceral and the bass is better to my ears- but the Susvara is certainly preferable for jazz, classical, etc...


----------



## OneEyedHito

@rsbrsvp I’m yet to hear a CFA-3 but it’s on my list of wishes. I sold my Susvara for the time being to give some other headphones a fair shake (I always end up using the Susvara mostly) and am a bit more amp independent as a result of it right now. The Susvara ties me to power too much also at present. I’ll add another set back in the stable soon I’m sure though.


----------



## rsbrsvp (Feb 10, 2022)

OneEyedHito said:


> @rsbrsvp I’m yet to hear a CFA-3 but it’s on my list of wishes. I sold my Susvara for the time being to give some other headphones a fair shake (I always end up using the Susvara mostly) and am a bit more amp independent as a result of it right now. The Susvara ties me to power too much also at present. I’ll add another set back in the stable soon I’m sure though.


Thanks.   I think I will need to test the oor vs the CFA-3 side by side.  I already can reasonably estimate based on everything I have heard that the CFA-3 will hands down be technically superior and more neutral and the oor more musical and engaging and I'm just going to have to make a decision of what I want.  Both are viable options- of course...


----------



## krude

rsbrsvp said:


> I sold my Susvara.   Interesting that in my audition with the oor, we had a TC, Susvara, and LCD-5.  I preferred the 5 as I find the Susvara a bit soft, although it did sound wonderful.  Others who were here preferred the Susvara as they thought the 5 was to mid centric and the Susvara was more open sounding.  I listen to modern genres and prefer the 5 because it is more visceral and the bass is better to my ears- but the Susvara is certainly preferable for jazz, classical, etc...


Have you tried Susvara with a silver cable from a good stack? It transformed it for me


----------



## rsbrsvp

I owned the Susvara twice and I have a HE-9 and a R7HE 2020 version from Audio-gd.  I also have a Mutec SE-120SE external clock and superb linear power supplies.  The Susvara sounds fantastic- really.  I just prefer a meatier sound like the TC and Audeze sound.  The oor could change all this as on the 30V Hypsos feed, it sounded so full bodied.  It is all a matter of balance as we all know.  I need more time to test it out.


----------



## krude

I did manage to get Susvara close to TC levels of impact, but TC is in a league of it's own : ) I'm not a big believer in cables (I know there's also science behind it), but in case of Susvara I got a a silver cable more as a bling and convenience item (lot better ergonomics than the stock one and looks the part), but holy cow, it made such a difference I could not believer. I would describe Susvara the same way as you did on stock (also tried one reputable copper cable with not much luck) as a soft polite sounding set good for acoustic and jazz ... well ... with the silver cable it started biting, the air sharpened up, it sharpened up generally accross the board. I could not believe the change. It's literally approaching the TC levels of sharpness and impact now ... obviously you get 6 to 8db of sub bass lift with TC when it's flapping around (which I love), but with EQ applied to level it it's not far off. Just sharing my experience because I already sold the Susvara once before, now I got it back again with a mission to "crack the code", and I think I finally succeeded 🤣


----------



## krude

rsbrsvp said:


> I owned the Susvara twice and I have a HE-9 and a R7HE 2020 version from Audio-gd.  I also have a Mutec SE-120SE external clock and superb linear power supplies.  The Susvara sounds fantastic- really.  I just prefer a meatier sound like the TC and Audeze sound.  The oor could change all this as on the 30V Hypsos feed, it sounded so full bodied.  It is all a matter of balance as we all know.  I need more time to test it out.


Btw Oor is an amazing pairing for the TC. Ticks all of the boxes and it's a really hard headphone to tame.


----------



## M76NYC

My current home setup is RME-ADI-2 DAC FS with my Arya v2 and I am looking to add a Class A balanced amp. Yesterday, I listened to the Ferrum Oor with and without the Hypsos at a local NYC store and was unimpressed, but there might have been a technical issue. I was using my iPhone 12 Pro Max as a source via RCA to play Qobuz and Spotify to an open-box Arya v2 and HD800S. With just the Oor at high gain and using the 1/4" output and again with the XLR output, I had to put the volume at 100% to hear the music at the mid-high volumes that I enjoy. The friendly salesman was perplexed as well. Switching to XLR headphone out improved the volume ever so slightly. We then connected the Hypsos and even with voltage set to max at 30V, I was still at the 3 o'clock position on the volume dial. 

Any ideas as to why I was left so unimpressed? My RME AMP/DAC can reach much higher volumes. It felt like the Oor/Hypsos was underpowered. From what I could hear, the music did have more power to it and the mids and lows were more rounded than my home setup. It definitely did not have the same character as my home setup, which had more soundstage and separation. Personally, I think enjoyed my current home setup, but I had high hopes and expectations for a $3700 Ferrum setup. Maybe I can try again at the upcoming NYC CanJam.


----------



## rsbrsvp

Got it...    I do use Silver cables throughout my system and still have my Susvara 99.99999% silver cable.  Yes- it improves the Susvara a lot...


----------



## rsbrsvp

M76NYC said:


> My current home setup is RME-ADI-2 DAC FS with my Arya v2 and I am looking to add a Class A balanced amp. Yesterday, I listened to the Ferrum Oor with and without the Hypsos at a local NYC store and was unimpressed, but there might have been a technical issue. I was using my iPhone 12 Pro Max as a source via RCA to play Qobuz and Spotify to an open-box Arya v2 and HD800S. With just the Oor at high gain and using the 1/4" output and again with the XLR output, I had to put the volume at 100% to hear the music at the mid-high volumes that I enjoy. The friendly salesman was perplexed as well. Switching to XLR headphone out improved the volume ever so slightly. We then connected the Hypsos and even with voltage set to max at 30V, I was still at the 3 o'clock position on the volume dial.
> 
> Any ideas as to why I was left so unimpressed? My RME AMP/DAC can reach much higher volumes. It felt like the Oor/Hypsos was underpowered. From what I could hear, the music did have more power to it and the mids and lows were more rounded than my home setup. It definitely did not have the same character as my home setup, which had more soundstage and separation. Personally, I think enjoyed my current home setup, but I had high hopes and expectations for a $3700 Ferrum setup. Maybe I can try again at the upcoming NYC CanJam.


I felt based on my short listen that the OOR with Hypsos at 30V was to my ears a more rounded, smooth sound.  Just beautiful..  It really has a soul; but obviously technicalities have to give a bit.  Not an insult, just an analysis..


----------



## M76NYC

rsbrsvp said:


> I felt based on my short listen that the OOR with Hypsos at 30V was to my ears a more rounded, smooth sound.  Just beautiful..  It really has a soul; but obviously technicalities have to give a bit.  Not an insult, just an analysis..


Very fair point. It was more rounded and smooth for sure. I may just need to give it another try, but both I and the salesman were perplexed as to why I had to put the volume at or near 100% to get a decent enough volume. Do you recall having to put volume so high? He was sure he heard the Oor/Hypsos pairing go much louder than that. If the sound I heard was happening at the 50% volume level and had room to push it even further, I think I might have really liked the Oor/Hypsos.


----------



## rsbrsvp

I think in single ended the amp is much weaker.  Were you listening in  balanced?

I thought it seemed plenty loud....


----------



## krude

rsbrsvp said:


> I felt based on my short listen that the OOR with Hypsos at 30V was to my ears a more rounded, smooth sound.  Just beautiful..  It really has a soul; but obviously technicalities have to give a bit.  Not an insult, just an analysis..


When you say technicalities have to give a bit, what exactly do you understand by that please?


----------



## rsbrsvp

krude said:


> When you say technicalities have to give a bit, what exactly do you understand by that please?


Rounder usually means less definition and seperation.  Again- don't take it as an insult.  I only heard the oor for a very short period- and I loved it...


----------



## FooFighter (Feb 10, 2022)

M76NYC said:


> Very fair point. It was more rounded and smooth for sure. I may just need to give it another try, but both I and the salesman were perplexed as to why I had to put the volume at or near 100% to get a decent enough volume. Do you recall having to put volume so high? He was sure he heard the Oor/Hypsos pairing go much louder than that. If the sound I heard was happening at the 50% volume level and had room to push it even further, I think I might have really liked the Oor/Hypsos.


I also think that you need a balanced connection and a voltage of >4V into OOR to get most out of it for Susvara at least but also for TC to a little lesser degree.
I am now running 5.8Vrms out of my Spring 3 KTE and am mostly between 9-11 on the OOR dial with Susvara and even lower with TC.
If I  apply EQ than I can get to 12 o'clock, maximum 1 o'clock to compensate the lowered DSP signal.
I don't think you can do the Ferrum stack justice running from an IPhone RCA adapter at all!
Bit perfect USB is fine but no analogue out.
So next time just put the RME into your bag - I heard they even offer a battery pack for it


----------



## krude

rsbrsvp said:


> Rounder usually means less definition and seperation.  Again- don't take it as an insult.  I only heard the oor for a very short period- and I loved it...


No that's fine, just asking because Oor is by far the best imaging amp I've heard to date, including raw Hugo2, Soloist 3xp, Soloist GT, Cayin HA6a, Oor beats all of these for detail, separation, layer, eveything pretty much, for me at least.


----------



## krude

rsbrsvp said:


> I felt based on my short listen that the OOR with Hypsos at 30V was to my ears a more rounded, smooth sound.  Just beautiful..  It really has a soul; but obviously technicalities have to give a bit.  Not an insult, just an analysis..


Voltage doesn't translate to power output, it changes the characteristic of the sounds as far as I'm aware. The default tuning is 24v and anything else is non standard, so I wouldn't judge the amp if you only heard it on anything else than 24v. I've made this mistake as well, you can read my posts on this thread about different voltages. Turns out 24v is "the sound" Ferrum intended, and it is the best by far after a few weeks of experimenting.


----------



## OneEyedHito

M76NYC said:


> Very fair point. It was more rounded and smooth for sure. I may just need to give it another try, but both I and the salesman were perplexed as to why I had to put the volume at or near 100% to get a decent enough volume. Do you recall having to put volume so high? He was sure he heard the Oor/Hypsos pairing go much louder than that. If the sound I heard was happening at the 50% volume level and had room to push it even further, I think I might have really liked the Oor/Hypsos.


There was an issue with that setup or that particular amp.  On High Gain (+16db) my Susvara doesn't go past 12 o'clock for 93db peak spl using the the Oor & Hypsos (at 24V output).  That dealer shouldn't have let you demo that setup in that manner ultimately.  Find a dealer with more technical expertise in headphone amps.


----------



## krude

M76NYC said:


> My current home setup is RME-ADI-2 DAC FS with my Arya v2 and I am looking to add a Class A balanced amp. Yesterday, I listened to the Ferrum Oor with and without the Hypsos at a local NYC store and was unimpressed, but there might have been a technical issue. I was using my iPhone 12 Pro Max as a source via RCA to play Qobuz and Spotify to an open-box Arya v2 and HD800S. With just the Oor at high gain and using the 1/4" output and again with the XLR output, I had to put the volume at 100% to hear the music at the mid-high volumes that I enjoy. The friendly salesman was perplexed as well. Switching to XLR headphone out improved the volume ever so slightly. We then connected the Hypsos and even with voltage set to max at 30V, I was still at the 3 o'clock position on the volume dial.
> 
> Any ideas as to why I was left so unimpressed? My RME AMP/DAC can reach much higher volumes. It felt like the Oor/Hypsos was underpowered. From what I could hear, the music did have more power to it and the mids and lows were more rounded than my home setup. It definitely did not have the same character as my home setup, which had more soundstage and separation. Personally, I think enjoyed my current home setup, but I had high hopes and expectations for a $3700 Ferrum setup. Maybe I can try again at the upcoming NYC CanJam.


Just did this test with my old iPhone XS and HD800, I could get good volume at around 3 oclock, but the sound was ... just ok. I then tried my LG V50 which has a better integrated DAC and I could easily drive the HD800 and even the Susvara (Susvara wouldn't work on the iPhone jack into Oor) to good volume and decnet sound. I think you need at least 2-3v from your source for the more denamding loads. The standards balanced is around 4v I think, so any balanced dac should give you plenty of volume and headroom ... and obv far better sound than the iPhone


----------



## krude

M76NYC said:


> My current home setup is RME-ADI-2 DAC FS with my Arya v2 and I am looking to add a Class A balanced amp. Yesterday, I listened to the Ferrum Oor with and without the Hypsos at a local NYC store and was unimpressed, but there might have been a technical issue. I was using my iPhone 12 Pro Max as a source via RCA to play Qobuz and Spotify to an open-box Arya v2 and HD800S. With just the Oor at high gain and using the 1/4" output and again with the XLR output, I had to put the volume at 100% to hear the music at the mid-high volumes that I enjoy. The friendly salesman was perplexed as well. Switching to XLR headphone out improved the volume ever so slightly. We then connected the Hypsos and even with voltage set to max at 30V, I was still at the 3 o'clock position on the volume dial.
> 
> Any ideas as to why I was left so unimpressed? My RME AMP/DAC can reach much higher volumes. It felt like the Oor/Hypsos was underpowered. From what I could hear, the music did have more power to it and the mids and lows were more rounded than my home setup. It definitely did not have the same character as my home setup, which had more soundstage and separation. Personally, I think enjoyed my current home setup, but I had high hopes and expectations for a $3700 Ferrum setup. Maybe I can try again at the upcoming NYC CanJam.


Also judging a totl level headphones and amp setup with iPhone as a source kinda defeats the purpose a bit


----------



## M76NYC

rsbrsvp said:


> I think in single ended the amp is much weaker.  Were you listening in  balanced?
> 
> I thought it seemed plenty loud....


 Both single ended and balanced.


----------



## M76NYC

FooFighter said:


> I also think that you need a balanced connection and a voltage of >4V into OOR to get most out of it for Susvara at least but also for TC to a little lesser degree.
> I am now running 5.8Vrms out of my Spring 3 KTE and am mostly between 9-11 on the OOR dial with Susvara and even lower with TC.
> If I  apply EQ than I can get to 12 o'clock, maximum 1 o'clock to compensate the lowered DSP signal.
> I don't think you can do the Ferrum stack justice running from an IPhone RCA adapter at all!
> ...


Makes sense that the iPhone was the limiting factor. I would have preferred to use a dedicated DAC but the store didn’t set that up for me. Maybe next time or at CanJam NYC.


----------



## M76NYC

krude said:


> Also judging a totl level headphones and amp setup with iPhone as a source kinda defeats the purpose a bit


Agree 100%. Wasn’t an ideal setup. Thanks for the feedback.


----------



## M76NYC

krude said:


> Just did this test with my old iPhone XS and HD800, I could get good volume at around 3 oclock, but the sound was ... just ok. I then tried my LG V50 which has a better integrated DAC and I could easily drive the HD800 and even the Susvara (Susvara wouldn't work on the iPhone jack into Oor) to good volume and decnet sound. I think you need at least 2-3v from your source for the more denamding loads. The standards balanced is around 4v I think, so any balanced dac should give you plenty of volume and headroom ... and obv far better sound than the iPhone


Thanks for doing the test. I think we all agree the setup was the issue. I will give it another chance. To be continued.


----------



## M76NYC (Feb 10, 2022)

M76NYC said:


> Agree 100%. Wasn’t an ideal setup. Thanks for the feedback.


Krude: How does the Oor/Hypsos compare to the Soloist GT? That is my other front runner for my Arya v2 and RME ADI-2 DAC FS. (Wrong reply to self.)


----------



## OneEyedHito

M76NYC said:


> Krude: How does the Oor/Hypsos compare to the Soloist GT? That is my other front runner for my Arya v2 and RME ADI-2 DAC FS. (Wrong reply to self.)


Oor stack is greater than the GT to my ears. Search my posts in here for my detailed listening on the Oor to see if our chains and hearing is similar enough for you to listen to my experience.


----------



## krude (Feb 10, 2022)

M76NYC said:


> Krude: How does the Oor/Hypsos compare to the Soloist GT? That is my other front runner for my Arya v2 and RME ADI-2 DAC FS. (Wrong reply to self.)


There are my detailed impressions on here, but long story short for me Oor is more natural and clean with amazing midrange clarity, GT has more features, but in my setup doesn't have the detail Oor has. GT is really power dependent, so don't even try it without the Supercharger and you still need really good clean power for it. For Oor Hypsos deals with power. If you have really good power I would risk stating that GT could be on par with Oor. Also GT has a fan, which may not be an issue for you, but I would definitely try it before buying.

Power wise they are very similar.

Also GT is noisy for IEMs, Oor on low gain is pretty much silent for me.


----------



## Tubewin

krude said:


> There are my detailed impressions on here, but long story short for me Oor is more natural and clean with amazing midrange clarity, GT has more features, but in my setup doesn't have the detail Oor has. GT is really power dependent, so don't even try it without the Supercharger and you still need really good clean power for it. For Oor Hypsos deals with power. If you have really good power I would risk stating that GT could be on par with Oor. Also GT has a fan, which may not be an issue for you, but I would definitely try it before buying.
> 
> Power wise they are very similar.
> 
> Also GT is noisy for IEMs, Oor on low gain is pretty much silent for me.


Fair analysis/comparison.


----------



## LarsMan

I'm about to start a mini 'shoot-out' in my system between the Hypsos/Oor stack and the Enleum 23R I just got a couple weeks ago. On their own without trying to do any comparison, they both sound super, and more tube-y than 'typical SS', especially with my LCD-5's. Still want to get more time on the Utopia and the Susvara, though.


----------



## Tubewin

The Hypsos has a 4T Sensing Design (4TSD) option, do you guys leave that on or off?
​


----------



## krude

Tubewin said:


> The Hypsos has a 4T Sensing Design (4TSD) option, do you guys leave that on or off?
> ​


Whoa theres also another option Spread Spectrum mode ... I have no idea what these are, both are on for me. I will dig into it tomorrow 🤨🤠


----------



## Dr_Hibbert (Feb 10, 2022)

director’s garage just posted a review. generally positive but a bit lukewarm.


----------



## LarsMan

Dr_Hibbert said:


> director’s garage just posted a review. generally positive but a bit lukewarm.



Cool! I'll check that out - I enjoy Michael's videos....


----------



## LarsMan

OK, I've started phase 1 of my comparison between the Ferrum stack and the Enleum. I've compared so far using my LCD-5 and Utopia headphones; hadn't done the Susvara yet. As of now, the Ferrum stack is the winner by a not inconsiderable margin - more clarity, separation, detail/texture, staging, most things, really. That being said, I understand the break-in time for the Enleum is over 100 hours, and I'm still way short of that, so I am not judging it at this point. I'll just let it play for a few days with something on repeat, and I'll re-evaluate at the end of February; also need to compare them with Susvara! 

One thing that's weird is that I wanted to compare the balanced vs the SE headphone outputs on the Oor. Sounded fine with balanced, but when I turned it off and turned it back on with the switch to 'RCA' and used an XLR to SE adapter, I don't get any sound. Anybody got any ideas what I'm missing here?


----------



## Tubewin

Dr_Hibbert said:


> director’s garage just posted a review. generally positive but a bit lukewarm.



Seemed like he could take it or leave it.


----------



## Gavin C4

rsbrsvp said:


> Is the oor class A?  I think I saw A/B?
> 
> If this is correct- what does it mean?  In other words- isn't class A better than Class A/B, and shouldn't a $3000 headphone amp be class A throughout?
> 
> I'd appreciate some explanation..



I think it is a class A B design. What makes the design of this amp so good is the separated power supply that allows for the performance of the OOR.


----------



## FooFighter (Feb 10, 2022)

LarsMan said:


> OK, I've started phase 1 of my comparison between the Ferrum stack and the Enleum. I've compared so far using my LCD-5 and Utopia headphones; hadn't done the Susvara yet. As of now, the Ferrum stack is the winner by a not inconsiderable margin - more clarity, separation, detail/texture, staging, most things, really. That being said, I understand the break-in time for the Enleum is over 100 hours, and I'm still way short of that, so I am not judging it at this point. I'll just let it play for a few days with something on repeat, and I'll re-evaluate at the end of February; also need to compare them with Susvara!
> 
> One thing that's weird is that I wanted to compare the balanced vs the SE headphone outputs on the Oor. Sounded fine with balanced, but when I turned it off and turned it back on with the switch to 'RCA' and used an XLR to SE adapter, I don't get any sound. Anybody got any ideas what I'm missing here?


Can you go into more details.
In the way you describe it you set the input to RCA (but don't have the RCA connected at the back) and expect sound to come out through the headphone outputs?
Cannot work of course.
The switch is only for inputs and not outputs.
Once balanced headphone is plugged in the SE is dead by design and is working only after balanced headphone plug is out - at least that's what I remember how it's working


----------



## DAPpower

Anyone compared the Ferrum to the Burson Soloist 3XP GT?


----------



## Gavin C4

rsbrsvp said:


> Truth is, I am considering buying a hybrid (tube input) CFA-3 which is class A, and much more powerful than the oor and is very well respected as well.  I am so smitten by the oor based on what I heard, I am reconsidering and therefore trying to gather information to decide what to do..
> 
> My dealer here in Israel wants around $3000 for the oor and the Hypsos- so this is the correct price for me.  The CFA-3 hybrid is around $4,000.  Price is not the issue- it is sound....



Did you have the chance to listen to both CFA 3 and OOR? If yes, at this price point $3000-4000. It should only boils down to personal sound preference. We have already far passed the point of aiming for the best measuring amp or best class A amps that are at the $400 pricr point. 

Trust your ears. Get what it sounds godd to you.


----------



## rmsanger

DAPpower said:


> Anyone compared the Ferrum to the Burson Soloist 3XP GT?


Check out Sandus review and written articles


----------



## OneEyedHito (Feb 10, 2022)

DAPpower said:


> Anyone compared the Ferrum to the Burson Soloist 3XP GT?


No. Whatever you do don’t go back to the previous page.😂


----------



## EMINENT

Man... no remote is super disappointing especially at that price.


----------



## K3cT

rsbrsvp said:


> Truth is, I am considering buying a hybrid (tube input) CFA-3 which is class A, and much more powerful than the oor and is very well respected as well.  I am so smitten by the oor based on what I heard, I am reconsidering and therefore trying to gather information to decide what to do..
> 
> My dealer here in Israel wants around $3000 for the oor and the Hypsos- so this is the correct price for me.  The CFA-3 hybrid is around $4,000.  Price is not the issue- it is sound....



Since you already have the HE-9, wouldn't the CFA hybrid provide something more unique?


----------



## krude (Feb 11, 2022)

Tubewin said:


> Seemed like he could take it or leave it.


Check out his pinned comment. Loos like he wasn't using balanced for Oor ... I just love when people make comparison vids and then add a caveat like that in the comment section, renders the comparison pointless imo 🤷‍♂️


----------



## MatW

.


----------



## MatW

LarsMan said:


> OK, I've started phase 1 of my comparison between the Ferrum stack and the Enleum. I've compared so far using my LCD-5 and Utopia headphones; hadn't done the Susvara yet. As of now, the Ferrum stack is the winner by a not inconsiderable margin - more clarity, separation, detail/texture, staging, most things, really. That being said, I understand the break-in time for the Enleum is over 100 hours, and I'm still way short of that, so I am not judging it at this point. I'll just let it play for a few days with something on repeat, and I'll re-evaluate at the end of February; also need to compare them with Susvara!
> 
> One thing that's weird is that I wanted to compare the balanced vs the SE headphone outputs on the Oor. Sounded fine with balanced, but when I turned it off and turned it back on with the switch to 'RCA' and used an XLR to SE adapter, I don't get any sound. Anybody got any ideas what I'm missing here?


As already stated the switch is for the input side. No need to touch the switch. On the output side you can simply plug into XLR, change to 6.3 and compare away..😊


----------



## LarsMan

MatW said:


> As already stated the switch is for the input side. No need to touch the switch. On the output side you can simply plug into XLR, change to 6.3 and compare away..😊


Thanks Mat - I hadn't noticed that was stated about the switch; I'm used to other amps where there's a switch in the front where you select which headphone jack you're plugging into. That explains why I didn't get anything from RCA, 'cause I was using only balanced inputs - mystery solved!


----------



## LarsMan

Tubewin said:


> Seemed like he could take it or leave it.


From what I saw, he said it was the best thing he's heard his Susvara through yet, and he'll likely keep that and sell the Phonitor-X. I'm sure his search for the ultimate amplification for Susvara will continue, as it does for a lot of folks!


----------



## krude

LarsMan said:


> From what I saw, he said it was the best thing he's heard his Susvara through yet, and he'll likely keep that and sell the Phonitor-X. I'm sure his search for the ultimate amplification for Susvara will continue, as it does for a lot of folks!


What is interesting tho is that during that test Phonitor was running from balanced and Oor from se, and Oor still came out on top. Shame you need to check the comment section to find that info.


----------



## OneEyedHito

Dr_Hibbert said:


> director’s garage just posted a review. generally positive but a bit lukewarm.



I guess he warmed up to it after all.


----------



## 9bphillips

I am torn between the Soloist GT and the Ferrum Oor. Can anyone give me any input on either of these? Pros and cons?


----------



## krude

Search this thread and info you shall find 🤫


----------



## DAPpower (Feb 13, 2022)

9bphillips said:


> I am torn between the Soloist GT and the Ferrum Oor. Can anyone give me any input on either of these? Pros and cons?



I'm about to swap the op amps on my Burson, so we will see how much better it gets and the winner will be clear ))

At the moment though, these 2 amps have different tunings and characteristics, the Ferrum OOR sounds more like a normal TOTL solid state amp, more linear tuning, bright, revealing and transparent whereas the Burson GT with the stock Vivid V6 op amps has a very large euphonic presentation, kind of tube-like but sounds way bigger. The soundstage on the Burson GT should be wider and deeper as well but it seems that the mids are just a little bit recessed on the GT with the stock op amps. I'm gonna swap them based on what others have recommended and that should fix the issues and further improve dynamics and soundstage.


----------



## 9bphillips

DAPpower said:


> I'm about to swap the op amps on my Burson, so we will see how much better it gets and the winner will be clear ))
> 
> At the moment though, these 2 amps have different tunings and characteristics, the Ferrum OOR sounds more like a normal TOTL solid state amp, more linear tuning, bright, revealing and transparent whereas the Burson GT with the stock Vivid V6 op amps has a very large euphonic presentation, kind of tube-like but sounds way bigger. The soundstage on the Burson GT should be wider and deeper as well but it seems that the mids are just a little bit recessed on the GT with the stock op amps. I'm gonna swap them based on what others have recommended and that should fix the issues and further improve dynamics and soundstage.


One of the main things I like about my Soloist 3xp is dynamics. I know the GT has good dynamics and it seems the oor does too. How would you compare the dynamics of the 2 amps. I listen to mostly rock, classic rock,  blues,   jazz,  progressive rock/ dance, and soundtracks. Rock is my main genre. I'm sure the GT is great for rock as is the 3xp but what about the oor? How would it do with rock?


----------



## DAPpower (Feb 13, 2022)

9bphillips said:


> One of the main things I like about my Soloist 3xp is dynamics. I know the GT has good dynamics and it seems the oor does too. How would you compare the dynamics of the 2 amps. I listen to mostly rock, classic rock,  blues,   jazz,  progressive rock/ dance, and soundtracks. Rock is my main genre. I'm sure the GT is great for rock as is the 3xp but what about the oor? How would it do with rock?



I only had a brief trial listening to my friend's Ferrum OOR yesterday but it sounded quite good along with his Hypsos with different genres. I played older rock stuff like high res CCR, Pink Floyd and even Steely Dan and felt that the music had great weight and clarity to it.
The Burson GT has the excellent soundstage width and depth, vivid separation and overall has a funner presentation overall compared to the Ferrum but some will find the slightly recessed mids to be too strange at first listen. I kind of warmed and appreciated the unique euphoric tuning of the GT but I will take the extra step and swap the op amps which should improve the tuning and dynamics drastically based on what others have said.


----------



## 9bphillips

Did you feel like the oor was harsh with bad recordings or harsh in any way? Also have you ever heard the Soloist 3xp? I was wondering if you thought the 3xp had recessed mids like the GT? Please let me know what you find out with the opamp swap! I am interested to see what you have to say about that.


----------



## DAPpower

9bphillips said:


> Did you feel like the oor was harsh with bad recordings or harsh in any way? Also have you ever heard the Soloist 3xp? I was wondering if you thought the 3xp had recessed mids like the GT? Please let me know what you find out with the opamp swap! I am interested to see what you have to say about that.



I should get around the op amp swap on Tuesday or Wednesday when the rest of my components come. I never had or tried the 3XP but if they're similar I would just think that the GT is a beefed up 3XP for the most part.


----------



## DAPpower

9bphillips said:


> Did you feel like the oor was harsh with bad recordings or harsh in any way? Also have you ever heard the Soloist 3xp? I was wondering if you thought the 3xp had recessed mids like the GT? Please let me know what you find out with the opamp swap! I am interested to see what you have to say about that.



I was also gonna add that the Burson GT sounds fantastic with electronic music or music that usually sounds harsh on super revealing gear, becuase of the huge seperation factor and smoother touch on the treble it has a sublime effect on these kinds of music with the stock V6 op amps.


----------



## LarsMan

9bphillips said:


> I am torn between the Soloist GT and the Ferrum Oor. Can anyone give me any input on either of these? Pros and cons?


The Hypsos/Oor stack rocks the house big time! Susvara headphones are lacking for nothing. Loads of dynamics and great for rock, which is what I listen to....


----------



## LarsMan

9bphillips said:


> Did you feel like the oor was harsh with bad recordings or harsh in any way? Also have you ever heard the Soloist 3xp? I was wondering if you thought the 3xp had recessed mids like the GT? Please let me know what you find out with the opamp swap! I am interested to see what you have to say about that.


I think the harshness in bad recordings might have at least as much to do with the headphones you're listening to them with as with the Oor stack. Some phones I've got are a lot more forgiving of bad sounding source than others....


----------



## ToddRaymond

I wonder how the preamp aspect of the OOR + Hypsos fares against other preamps....


----------



## LarsMan

ToddRaymond said:


> I wonder how the preamp aspect of the OOR + Hypsos fares against other preamps....


I use an MSB DAC with a volume control into the stack, so it works as a preamp too, essentially. I can adjust the volume either manually on the Oor or remotely on the MSB DAC. I leave the setting on the DAC at '-3' most of the time, but I'll go from '-5' to '+3' on there and have had no problems, and it's a good way to get around the 'no Ferrum remote' issue.


----------



## FooFighter

Am wondering a bit about the necessity of remote control for headphone usage or do you guys have 3m cables attached sitting in some distant armchair?
My cables are usually too short (and too expensive to be too long 😉)


----------



## LarsMan

FooFighter said:


> Am wondering a bit about the necessity of remote control for headphone usage or do you guys have 3m cables attached sitting in some distant armchair?
> My cables are usually too short (and too expensive to be too long 😉)


Hah! My reach is a lot less than 3 meters! My listening chair is about 4 feet from where the gear is situated - my cables are 8 feet long. When listening in 'shuffle' mode, I often have to be constantly adjusting the sound level...


----------



## ToddRaymond

I'm just planning to eventually connect a power amp for speakers in the bedroom (where my desk is).  Not too bothered by the lack of remote.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Some photos of the @Ferrum Audio OOR and Hypsos.






I have been listening to the Susvaras more in the last week, than I have, in the past year.





I also really like the HD650 off it, go figure, lol. It also drives the TC well. Some do prefer tubes with the TC, so that's that. 





Overall, really enjoying the stack.



 
Hope to do more detailed write-ups and vids in the future...


----------



## LarsMan

Sajid Amit said:


> Some photos of the @Ferrum Audio OOR and Hypsos.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Know whatcha mean about the Susvaras - you can listen to 'em through this thing (I assume you're using + gain?) and say, "This sounds GREAT!" without putting a 'but....' after it. Susvara sounds great through this full stop. So do Utopia and LCD-5's for that matter. SS with no dryness and a bit of warmth, I'd say... Enjoy!


----------



## krude

LarsMan said:


> Know whatcha mean about the Susvaras - you can listen to 'em through this thing (I assume you're using + gain?) and say, "This sounds GREAT!" without putting a 'but....' after it. Susvara sounds great through this full stop. So do Utopia and LCD-5's for that matter. SS with no dryness and a bit of warmth, I'd say... Enjoy!


From May in balanced (5.8v) it has enough for Susvara and TC on 0 gain 💪 which sounds even smoother and cleaner.


----------



## Sajid Amit

LarsMan said:


> Know whatcha mean about the Susvaras - you can listen to 'em through this thing (I assume you're using + gain?) and say, "This sounds GREAT!" without putting a 'but....' after it. Susvara sounds great through this full stop. So do Utopia and LCD-5's for that matter. SS with no dryness and a bit of warmth, I'd say... Enjoy!


Yes, the stack sounds great, period. So much so, I might sell the SR009S after this. The Susvara also sounds tactile and just right. Not too warm, not cold, but natural.


----------



## krude (Feb 19, 2022)

Professional as always  now waiting for the follow up


----------



## Pete Gardner

ToddRaymond said:


> I wonder how the preamp aspect of the OOR + Hypsos fares against other preamps....


Also wondering... thinking about offloading Luxman integrated and go D class power amp if Oor performs well as a pre.


----------



## sawindra

According to Herb Reichert it's very good


----------



## Terriero

FooFighter said:


> Am wondering a bit about the necessity of remote control for headphone usage or do you guys have 3m cables attached sitting in some distant armchair?
> My cables are usually too short (and too expensive to be too long 😉)


Yes, I listen to music in my Ikea Pöang and, although is near my desk, the 3 meter cable of all my headphones elongate at maximum when listening to music. I also plan to conect my active monitors to the AIO (talking about Erco) and I need a remote in both cases.

When I have the money to upgrade my AIO, I will ask to the guys at Ferrum if they have a solution for that (maybe a separated IR receiver or something, like the guys at Flux labs do).


----------



## FooFighter (Feb 19, 2022)

Terriero said:


> Yes, I listen to music in my Ikea Pöang and, although is near my desk, the 3 meter cable of all my headphones elongate at maximum when listening to music. I also plan to conect my active monitors to the AIO (talking about Erco) and I need a remote in both cases.
> 
> When I have the money to upgrade my AIO, I will ask to the guys at Ferrum if they have a solution for that (maybe a separated IR receiver or something, like the guys at Flux labs do).


Latest with monitors / loudspeakers the remote is really useful.
Strange that Ferrum is allowing the usage of an Apple Remote for the Hypsos though.
Both Oor and Erco seem to be designed for pure "analogue" frontend usage with physical buttons to be turned and no digital interface like Hypsos.
Am no technical engineer but I am wondering if the implementation is allowing remote control by any means...

Edit: as you mentioned Flux, I used to own a Flux FA-10 and though it also appeared to be quite "physical" without any digital interface it indeed offered an IR receiver to be attached at the back and the volume wheel had a built-in electric motor which could be steered by the IR remote control.
Apple remote technology is based on Bluetooth, so it allows controlling the receiver even if it's hidden inside of some rack.


----------



## Delta9K (Feb 19, 2022)

krude said:


> From May in balanced (5.8v) it has enough for Susvara and TC on 0 gain 💪 which sounds even smoother and cleaner.


I was beginning to think that I was alone in this, still that is how I listen - I am using a Spring V3 KTE, also 5.8v balanced output into the Hypsos/Orr set to XLR and 0, and find it to be much smoother and with enough gain to work Susvara at my preferred comfort SPL level and beyond, if desired vs. setting the gain to +dB on the Orr.

With the Orr, working from the XLR input with the gain switch set to '0', it is still 6dB gain over if working SE from the RCA and gain switch set to 0.


----------



## FooFighter (Feb 19, 2022)

I think I ve read before in this thread that there shouldn't be a difference of the Gain levels if volume is matched and I have to say I also used to play Susvara at 0 DB before but since owning TC I think my taste has changed towards maximizing the experience of maximum dynamic range, detail and resolution.
0DB is appearing a little more lush and a tad warmer to my ears but the maximum Gain setting is nevertheless my Go to setting meanwhile fed with XLR from either Shanling M30 (might sell that one soon) or Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE


----------



## EMINENT

Anyone compare this to Pro iCan Signature using an LCD5?


----------



## chargedcapacitor

EMINENT said:


> Anyone compare this to Pro iCan Signature using an LCD5?





FractalSound said:


> I actually think iCAN Signature and oor+h are very close...  so much so that I can't really tell much difference.  I have been comparing oor+h with iCAN signature in Tube mode. That shows oor+h is on the warm side which is also a tribute to a SS only stack.
> 
> At the end of the day, I will be keeping my iCAN Signature.  As a side note, I tried iCAN signature with Gustard X26 Pro and had an immediate jump in SQ (as compared to RME ADI-2 DAC FS, SMSL SU9). Very noticeable.
> 
> ...


This seems to be one of the only direct A/B comparison between the two, and not just people making claims from memory.


----------



## cplus44

For "normal output" "output voltage" "output power" "output current" do you guys mess with that or just leave it on default? would like to know if its worth doing anything with that before i get my unit...


----------



## krude

cplus44 said:


> For "normal output" "output voltage" "output power" "output current" do you guys mess with that or just leave it on default? would like to know if its worth doing anything with that before i get my unit...


You can change output volatage on Hypsos. It changes to FR and the reaction of the Oor. I found it intriguing at first, but settled on the nominal standard 24v, which is the intended handcrafted tuning.


----------



## LarsMan

cplus44 said:


> For "normal output" "output voltage" "output power" "output current" do you guys mess with that or just leave it on default? would like to know if its worth doing anything with that before i get my unit...


I tried that 'sweet spot' thing they talk about, where you can fine-tune the voltage you select up or down a limited amount in either direction; you can't adjust it so much it will do damage if you're in that mode. I tried it with a few variations from 24.0, but I couldn't really tell any difference....


----------



## Arkitecc (Feb 27, 2022)

I figured I’d go ahead and post some thoughts on the Ferrum stack now that I’ve spent a few days listening quite heavily to it. If anything changes as I go further out into the future I’ll be sure add an addendum to my thoughts here, but over the last several days I’ve been able to pinpoint what I noticed as the main improvements (at least on the Final D8000 OG) coming from the A90 + D90 Stack into the OOR + HYPSOS + Benchmark DAC3B.

I won’t claim to know which aspects of the improvements I noticed belong to what part of the stack, I’m mostly going to be talking on a purely experiential level.

I’ll keep it short and sweet because that’s what I feel like the differences I noticed deserve.

*Bass:* I noticed an immediate increase in the quality of the bass coming from the A90 + D90 Stack to the Ferrum stack + Benchmark DAC3B. Bass has a more physical presence, extension appears to have increased, I can hear the bass extending further out than I was previously, and I feel the slam is carrying more punch with it. Overall I would say the body of the bass has increased, the stack I believe is presenting bass with more warmth or at least unlocking more of the warmth that the D8000 OG is able to provide. I love love love this about the new stack. It has really upped my enjoyment of a range of albums. Particularly Dreamland by Glass Animals, Vicious Delicious by Infected Mushroom and the Refraction Point EP by SIXIS

*Detail Retrieval / Reverb Quality / Decay:* I feel like the new stack has allowed me to hear more detail in the tracks I’ve listened to, the best example of this that I can paint is that on the track Singularity by BTS as the vocals reverb outward, I can hear not only the reverb extending further out than I could previously, but I can hear a secondary vocal echo in the background after the reverb has extended that was not immediately noticeable to me before on the A90 + D90 stack.

*Instrument Layering / Separation:* Another area I noticed pretty immediately compared to the A90 + D90 stack. Each of the composing elements of a track have gained greater presence and a higher level of intelligibility compared to my previous stack. Each of these elements now more clearly occupy their own space in the mix. I didn’t previously perceive this as a problem with my previous stack, but going into the new stack has enhanced this aspect enough for me to perceive a welcomed difference in quality.

*Bite / Digital Sheen:* There were times while I was listening to the A90 + D90 stack that I was wondering if I was really getting a true representation of the tracks. I didn’t always have this experience, and I could never be 100 percent sure that I was actually experiencing what I thought I might have been experiencing. However, moving into the new stack I feel like I’m more confident now than I was before that I’ve moved beyond a certain bite, or glare, or sheen that was subtly enveloping my music previously.

I feel like sometimes this bite served to add a little extra flavor (in an enjoyable way) to the treble range (Particularly with the Refraction Point EP by SIXIS, an album I know intimately) on the A90 + D90 compared to the new stack, but as I am more of a bass and mids appreciator than I am a treble appreciator I am willing to accept this trade-off. Particularly with how lovely the bass is on the new stack.

I think that about wraps up my overall experience so far with the new stack. I haven’t experimented enough yet with the HYPSOS to be able to tell if I’m able to hear an intelligible difference based on voltage output changes, so if I end up playing with that more I’ll be sure to share my thoughts on that at a later date.


----------



## dematted

Not sure if it had to do with the dac which it was hooked up to, (and obviously take all this with a grain of salt because meet conditions etc.) but I was genuinely unimpressed by the OOR + Hypsos combo at Canjam. I listened to it with a couple different things: my Mini (Custom headphone made by a start-up), a Utopia, and a few other ETA's (The startup in question). Overall, it sounded very reminiscent of two much cheaper amps: the JDS Atom, and Magni Heresy. In short, it sounded like a cheap op-amp implementation. Now, I'm not sure if that's how the amp is actually designed, but the sound overall was, despite being pretty clear and for the most part timbrally correct, very dull and unengaging. Transients lacked edge and slam, microdynamics were almost completely absent, and the music sounded, though not "off", as if it really lacked (to use a term Ferrum likes) "Soul". This is probably attributable to the fact that the amp just didn't seem to dig very deep, and smeared over the finer gradations of music (what many refer to as "texture" or "plankton"). I think it tries to get away from some of the characteristic problems with SS by having what is definitely a warm tonal bent, but this just ends up masking over some detail in the treble, I think. It also sounds pretty "Slow": not in a "rounded transients" sort of way, but more in the sense that individual notes were not particularly visceral or immediate sounding.

Overall, I'd expect this amp to cost somewhere from 300-500, not $3000 with the Hypsos power supply. The iFi amps, by contrast, (even the cheaper ones, like the Diablo and Gryphon) had much more character and engagement. Maybe it does better with planars, which I did not try it with. Or maybe this unit was a dud, or maybe the dac it was hooked up to just wasn't great. Or maybe my ears just don't jive with it for whatever reason. Anyways, a big disappointment for me, as an SS on the level of, say, an ECP DSHA-3F at an accessible price which can be easily purchased would be a great thing. But to my ears, it didn't come anywhere close to the 3F. No solid state amp I've heard does.


----------



## dudeX

dematted said:


> Not sure if it had to do with the dac which it was hooked up to, (and obviously take all this with a grain of salt because meet conditions etc.) but I was genuinely unimpressed by the OOR + Hypsos combo at Canjam. I listened to it with a couple different things: my Mini (Custom headphone made by a start-up), a Utopia, and a few other ETA's (The startup in question). Overall, it sounded very reminiscent of two much cheaper amps: the JDS Atom, and Magni Heresy. In short, it sounded like a cheap op-amp implementation. Now, I'm not sure if that's how the amp is actually designed, but the sound overall was, despite being pretty clear and for the most part timbrally correct, very dull and unengaging. Transients lacked edge and slam, microdynamics were almost completely absent, and the music sounded, though not "off", as if it really lacked (to use a term Ferrum likes) "Soul". This is probably attributable to the fact that the amp just didn't seem to dig very deep, and smeared over the finer gradations of music (what many refer to as "texture" or "plankton"). I think it tries to get away from some of the characteristic problems with SS by having what is definitely a warm tonal bent, but this just ends up masking over some detail in the treble, I think. It also sounds pretty "Slow": not in a "rounded transients" sort of way, but more in the sense that individual notes were not particularly visceral or immediate sounding.
> 
> Overall, I'd expect this amp to cost somewhere from 300-500, not $3000 with the Hypsos power supply. The iFi amps, by contrast, (even the cheaper ones, like the Diablo and Gryphon) had much more character and engagement. Maybe it does better with planars, which I did not try it with. Or maybe this unit was a dud, or maybe the dac it was hooked up to just wasn't great. Or maybe my ears just don't jive with it for whatever reason. Anyways, a big disappointment for me, as an SS on the level of, say, an ECP DSHA-3F at an accessible price which can be easily purchased would be a great thing. But to my ears, it didn't come anywhere close to the 3F. No solid state amp I've heard does.


I think there was something suspect with the setup because I tried the Utopia with the OOR/Hypsos combo, connected to an Mscaler/TT2 and I thought that the Utopia was just a wall of very loud instruments there was no balance. This was the OOR on the right side of the table. The middle one and the Erco sounded fine for the headphones there. The Clear MG sounded really good for that one song I tried. The Utopia is Andrew "Resolve"'s favorite, and it is a TOTL headphone, so I suspect the set up must have been tampered with because it was so unimpressive.


----------



## krude

dematted said:


> Not sure if it had to do with the dac which it was hooked up to, (and obviously take all this with a grain of salt because meet conditions etc.) but I was genuinely unimpressed by the OOR + Hypsos combo at Canjam. I listened to it with a couple different things: my Mini (Custom headphone made by a start-up), a Utopia, and a few other ETA's (The startup in question). Overall, it sounded very reminiscent of two much cheaper amps: the JDS Atom, and Magni Heresy. In short, it sounded like a cheap op-amp implementation. Now, I'm not sure if that's how the amp is actually designed, but the sound overall was, despite being pretty clear and for the most part timbrally correct, very dull and unengaging. Transients lacked edge and slam, microdynamics were almost completely absent, and the music sounded, though not "off", as if it really lacked (to use a term Ferrum likes) "Soul". This is probably attributable to the fact that the amp just didn't seem to dig very deep, and smeared over the finer gradations of music (what many refer to as "texture" or "plankton"). I think it tries to get away from some of the characteristic problems with SS by having what is definitely a warm tonal bent, but this just ends up masking over some detail in the treble, I think. It also sounds pretty "Slow": not in a "rounded transients" sort of way, but more in the sense that individual notes were not particularly visceral or immediate sounding.
> 
> Overall, I'd expect this amp to cost somewhere from 300-500, not $3000 with the Hypsos power supply. The iFi amps, by contrast, (even the cheaper ones, like the Diablo and Gryphon) had much more character and engagement. Maybe it does better with planars, which I did not try it with. Or maybe this unit was a dud, or maybe the dac it was hooked up to just wasn't great. Or maybe my ears just don't jive with it for whatever reason. Anyways, a big disappointment for me, as an SS on the level of, say, an ECP DSHA-3F at an accessible price which can be easily purchased would be a great thing. But to my ears, it didn't come anywhere close to the 3F. No solid state amp I've heard does.


Wow that's unfortunate. It is a dark sounding amp comparatively, but if it sounded worse than Micro iDSD to you then something wasn't right with the setup I would think.


----------



## Roasty

is anyone using the OOR with Focal Stellia? any comments on this pairing? 

I'm looking for an amp for office use, primarily with closed headphones and/or my 64audii A12T. 

debating if I should go with the Erco or Oor. but seems Erco would be the more convenient option with the dac; saves me from having to get another dac/component.


----------



## Sajid Amit

The OOR HYPSOS is so damn good with the Susvara and the Utopia, chances are it will be competing for your attention with your higher-priced amps. I dare say that with a PL EVO 400 Pre, which we both have, the Ferrum Stack can trade blows with any head amp in terms of absolute performance, and surpass most in terms of synergy, with the Susvara AND the Utopia, lol.


----------



## DAPpower

I have demoed the Ferrum Stack and compared it with my Gustard X26 Pro and Burson GT with upgraded op amps and I would say that I would prefer my setup over the Ferrum Stack in terms of sheer clarity and dynamics (they're sort of close but the GT has a slight edge over it) but I had to spend way more money than the Ferrum Stack itself with the upgrades and it just shows you the level of value for performance you get with the Ferrum Stack, amazing.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Sajid Amit said:


> The OOR HYPSOS is so damn good with the Susvara and the Utopia, chances are it will be competing for your attention with your higher-priced amps. I dare say that with a PL EVO 400 Pre, which we both have, the Ferrum Stack can trade blows with any head amp in terms of absolute performance, and surpass most in terms of synergy, with the Susvara AND the Utopia, lol.


I bought the Ferrum Orr + Hypsos stack at CanJam NYC.   Amazingly, I bought it to pair with Utopia and Susvara.    I first learned of the Ferrum at CanJam Socal and was blown away at how well it made the Utopia sound.   This weekend I brought my Susvara to hear it and immediately bought it after I heard it.


----------



## dudeX

Those who have tried Utopia with Oor, did you set the OOR to low gain? At CanJam NYC, what I heard was every instrument at about equal volume level so it had a harsh wall of sound noise to it.
I checked the sensitivity yesterday and it's rated at 104 db/w so I am thinking that if I had lowered the gain on the OOR I would have had an experience that was comparable to the Clear MG.


----------



## MatW

I almost never get out of low gain. I use the OOR mainly with my closed backs, which are easy to drive. Same with Utopia, yes.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Sajid Amit said:


> The OOR HYPSOS is so damn good with the Susvara and the Utopia, chances are it will be competing for your attention with your higher-priced amps. I dare say that with a PL EVO 400 Pre, which we both have, the Ferrum Stack can trade blows with any head amp in terms of absolute performance, and surpass most in terms of synergy, with the Susvara AND the Utopia, lol.


Wow.   I loved the Primaluna EVO 400 integrated amp.   Pairing that with my ZMF Verite Closed was the single best I have ever heard it.   I thought it was too much amp for the VC, so I got the Ampsandsound Rockwell instead.   I just saw last night your reviews on the Ferrum Orr and using the EVO 400 as preamp.   That sounds very interesting.   How does using it as preamp rather than integrated amp change the sound?   I actually love tube amp sound more than solid state, so that may be a difference.


----------



## LarsMan

dudeX said:


> Those who have tried Utopia with Oor, did you set the OOR to low gain? At CanJam NYC, what I heard was every instrument at about equal volume level so it had a harsh wall of sound noise to it.
> I checked the sensitivity yesterday and it's rated at 104 db/w so I am thinking that if I had lowered the gain on the OOR I would have had an experience that was comparable to the Clear MG.


I always use mid-position gain on the Oor unless I'm using Susvara...


----------



## Sajid Amit (Mar 3, 2022)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Wow.   I loved the Primaluna EVO 400 integrated amp.   Pairing that with my ZMF Verite Closed was the single best I have ever heard it.   I thought it was too much amp for the VC, so I got the Ampsandsound Rockwell instead.   I just saw last night your reviews on the Ferrum Orr and using the EVO 400 as preamp.   That sounds very interesting.   How does using it as preamp rather than integrated amp change the sound?   I actually love tube amp sound more than solid state, so that may be a difference.


I got into the PrimaLunas after trying my Auteur with the EVO 200 integrated amp. I was very very impressed, promptly bought it, and that got me into PrimaLunas.

The EVO 200 also had this amazing synergy with the Raal SR1a. BEST I have heard. In fact, I raved about it everyone who would listen, and I was happy to see Raal incorporate el34 tubes in their new amp.

Later, I upgraded to the EVO 400 to drive the SR1a, and while it was more of everything compared to the EVO 200, I preferred the EVO 200 with the SR1a.

When I say "more of everything" I mean to say that the triode mode on the 400 was far more tubey (warm, in this case) than the EVO 200, while the ultralinear mode was more solid state like, fast, dynamic and sharper. *However, I lost that magical middle ground I had with the 200, lol.*

In any case, I sold the SR1a and the EVO 400, because the duo just wasn't doing it for me. And I wasn't comfortable with the form factor and limiations of the SR1a.

I thought I was done with PrimaLunas until I brought the EVO 400 pre-amp to audition and review. And I found my sweet spot again I have to say.

It's just tube flavor done right, esp when paired with the Ferrum stack. I get a more cohesive sound stage that sits in front of me, instead of forming a three-blob. Clearly more holography, environmental information, a sense of reverb and "echo" which are harder to describe unless one has heard a good tube amp, while retaining good speed and bass depth. Treble is certainly better-mannered and last but not the least, *the midrange is brought a tad forward*. That's how I hear it.

I returned my review unit and bought a new unbroken one. I have to say the review unit sounded a tad better lol, since the tubes were properly broken in, but that's life. 

It's an amazing pre to have with the Ferrum stack. It becomes an 8000 dollar preamp + amp setup, but in terms of overall sonic presentation, it's probably endgame for the Utopia.

For the Susvara, purely in terms of synergy, it beats my $8000 Accuphase e380 and $11,000 Pass Labs setups. This is coming from someone who champions speaker amps for the Susvara. Of course, the speaker amps eke out the last 5-10% in technical performance, but my listening pleasure has definitely increased with Ferrum.

I have bought this stack from @Ferrum Audio since. I just wish they would get back to me about the warranty information which I have been pushing for, lol.

Edit: I have the warranty information now. Thanks @Ferrum Audio. Superb work on the amps.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Mar 2, 2022)

Sajid Amit said:


> I got into the PrimaLunas after trying my Auteur with the EVO 200 integrated amp. I was very very impressed, promptly bought it, and that got me into PrimaLunas.
> 
> The EVO 200 also had this amazing synergy with the Raal SR1a. BEST I have heard. In fact, I raved about it everyone who would listen, and I was happy to see Raal incorporate el34 tubes in their new amp.
> 
> ...


I know a Primaluna dealer in Atlanta who carries the whole line.  Since the Ferrum Orr is so light, I think I'll take it with me to demo the whole line with it.   I would have never tried a preamp with it had I not seen your video.   This dealer is also a chord dealer, so I could try the whole Chord line of DACs with it although I am very intrigued by the Holo May since I became enamoured with R2R dacs.

I also bought my Ferrum Orr from Vana who was exhibiting at CanJam NYC.  The owner seemed like a competent guy.  He services the units and he told me that he didn't have any of the units with QC problems.  He said they isolated the problem and all of the units he had that were defective, he swapped out before sending them to customers.


----------



## Sajid Amit

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I know a Primaluna dealer in Atlanta who carries the whole line.  Since the Ferrum Orr is so light, I think I'll take it with me to demo the whole line with it.   I would have never tried a preamp with it had I not seen your video.   This dealer is also a chord dealer, so I could try the whole Chord line of DACs with it although I am very intrigued by the Holo May since I became enamoured with R2R dacs.


The PrimaLuna - Ferrum - May chain work really well.

So you have midrange-first holography of the preamp + preciseness and solid bass control of the Ferrum Stack + a whole lot of naturalness with the May.

But do try the Chord stuff in case you like them! I can't unhear R2R's but that's me.


----------



## prismstorm

Got the Ferrum OOR + HYPSOS stack and the chain is Macbook Pro > AudioQuest Cinnamon USB Cable > Bifrost 2 Unison USB > XLR Interconnect > Ferrum OOR (powered by HYPSOS) > XLR out to Susvara

Although the sound is very transparent and clean, bass is still not that strong, and even on high gain mode (+dB) the volume knob is cranked to 3 o'clock position and Susvara is still not having enough power or sounding full or loud enough. HYPSOS display indicates output power to be around 15-17W and output current at 0.6-0.8A.

What gives? Is Susvara still being underpowered, I thought this combo is already one of the best (testified by many to work well) for driving it? Or time to switch to another headphone?


----------



## chargedcapacitor

prismstorm said:


> Got the Ferrum OOR + HYPSOS stack and the chain is Macbook Pro > AudioQuest Cinnamon USB Cable > Bifrost 2 Unison USB > XLR Interconnect > Ferrum OOR (powered by HYPSOS) > XLR out to Susvara
> 
> Although the sound is very transparent and clean, bass is still not that strong, and even on high gain mode (+dB) the volume knob is cranked to 3 o'clock position and Susvara is still not having enough power or sounding full or loud enough. HYPSOS display indicates output power to be around 15-17W and output current at 0.6-0.8A.
> 
> What gives? Is Susvara still being underpowered, I thought this combo is already one of the best (testified by many to work well) for driving it? Or time to switch to another headphone?


Susvara's bass isn't as strong as LCD, Focal, or 1266 bass, no matter how you amplify it.


----------



## Sajid Amit

chargedcapacitor said:


> Susvara's bass isn't as strong as LCD, Focal, or 1266 bass, no matter how you amplify it.


Yup. That's just how it is.


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## krude (Mar 3, 2022)

chargedcapacitor said:


> Susvara's bass isn't as strong as LCD, Focal, or 1266 bass, no matter how you amplify it.


Interesting, with stock tuning that's true, but Susvara is capable of strong bass performance with EQ. For bass heads the only set I know of that can work without EQ is the TC ... but I would argue that if you crave high amount of bass it's a must to have good EQ in your toolkit. On my setup Susvara runs head to head with the TC and it's a trully spectacular set (I also used to think it's weak, veiled, boring and flakey when I didn't know how to use it).


----------



## prismstorm

chargedcapacitor said:


> Susvara's bass isn't as strong as LCD, Focal, or 1266 bass, no matter how you amplify it.


So basically on a technical level, I am driving the Susvara sufficiently already, it's just how it's tuned that is resulting in not much bass?


Sajid Amit said:


> Yup. That's just how it is.


Do you only listen to bass-light genres with the Susvara then complement them with another bassier headphone then?


krude said:


> Interesting, with stock tuning that's true, but Susvara is capable of strong bass performance with EQ. For bass heads the only set I know of that can work without EQ is the TC ... but I would argue that if you crave high amount of bass it's a must to have good EQ in your toolkit. On my setup Susvara runs head to head with the TC and it's a trully spectacular set (I also used to think it's weak, veiled, boring and flakey when I didn't know how to use it).


There's no way to achieve bass or warmth without dabbling into EQ?


----------



## MatW

prismstorm said:


> So basically on a technical level, I am driving the Susvara sufficiently already, it's just how it's tuned that is resulting in not much bass?


Yup. As we told you a few weeks ago in the Susvara thread ...


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## krude (Mar 3, 2022)

prismstorm said:


> So basically on a technical level, I am driving the Susvara sufficiently already, it's just how it's tuned that is resulting in not much bass?
> 
> Do you only listen to bass-light genres with the Susvara then complement them with another bassier headphone then?
> 
> There's no way to achieve bass or warmth without dabbling into EQ?


If you want to have strong bass without EQ you need a headphone with harman tunning for bass. That being said there are not many totl sets that will give you this, as audiophile gear usually has flat / reference bass tuning. I listen to a lot of bass heavy music and one of my main criterea for enjoying that kind of music is impact. I get that from all of my sets in spades.

Ways to try to get good bass impact without EQ :
1. Get the 1266 TC and play around with positioning the drivers so thay hang next to your ears.
2. Get Utopia / Stellia and a tube amp with variable output impedance (this boosts the bass and makes the sound more wet).
3. I've heard that LCD4 is good with bass but can't verify myself.
... hmm
cheat and use good EQ for the bass shelf


----------



## prismstorm

MatW said:


> Yup. As we told you a few weeks ago in the Susvara thread ...


Ok thanks, that means it's the headphones themselves that's the issue, I can rest in this journey to 'fix' the Susvara finally. It'll never be what I expected it to be even if my chain is correct. Cool ... 


krude said:


> If you want to have strong bass without EQ you need a headphone with harman tunning for bass. That being said there are not many totl sets that will give you this, as audiophile gear usually has flat / reference bass tuning. I listen to a lot of bass heavy music and one of my main criterea for enjoying that kind of music is impact. I get that from all of my sets in spades.
> 
> Ways to try to get good bass impact without EQ :
> 1. Get the 1266 TC and play around with positioning the drivers so thay hang next to your ears.
> ...


Ok, I'll give it a couple of months time and then sell it for bass heavy headphones and solve this whole problem altogether


----------



## MatW

prismstorm said:


> Ok thanks, that means it's the headphones themselves that's the issue, I can rest in this journey to 'fix' the Susvara finally. It'll never be what I expected it to be even if my chain is correct. Cool ...
> 
> Ok, I'll give it a couple of months time and then sell it for bass heavy headphones and solve this whole problem altogether


If you see it as a 'problem' then yeah you should go ahead and sell the Susvara to buy an Abyss 1266 TC. The Ferrum stack is perfectly capable of driving the TC too, so no harm done there imo. Why wait?


----------



## krude

MatW said:


> If you see it as a 'problem' then yeah you should go ahead and sell the Susvara to buy an Abyss 1266 TC. The Ferrum stack is perfectly capable of driving the TC too, so no harm done there imo. Why wait?


Yeah TC sounds great with Oor, completely different from Susvara but an excellent set imo.


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## krude (Mar 3, 2022)

prismstorm said:


> Ok thanks, that means it's the headphones themselves that's the issue, I can rest in this journey to 'fix' the Susvara finally. It'll never be what I expected it to be even if my chain is correct. Cool ...
> 
> Ok, I'll give it a couple of months time and then sell it for bass heavy headphones and solve this whole problem altogether


Also don't beat yourself up, getting solid bass out of Susvara is a quest that pretty much every Susvara owner goes on ... it needs a lot of experimentation, investment, time, dedication, it can be done, but took me round 8 months to get to where I want to be with it. TC gives you bass in spades from almost any chain, you have to fight to get it to sound clean with good midrange though, but Oor will sort this out pretty much.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

prismstorm said:


> So basically on a technical level, I am driving the Susvara sufficiently already, it's just how it's tuned that is resulting in not much bass?
> 
> Do you only listen to bass-light genres with the Susvara then complement them with another bassier headphone then?
> 
> There's no way to achieve bass or warmth without dabbling into EQ?


There is no way to achieve strong bass on the susvara, period. Using EQ can elevate the sub bass, but it will never hit hard. You can do a port mod to get slightly harder hitting bass kicks, but you will never get that hard hitting mid bass punch which can be found on other headphones. I believe it's due to the susvara just not having a strong enough magnetic field, due to too small of magnets spaced too far apart. If you look at the LCD line, they have larger magnets spaced closer together. But that's just a guess.


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## Pashmeister (Mar 3, 2022)

Susvara bass is usually the first thing that sounds punchier and fuller the better the chain and amplification gets. It’s not easy to get there though, and is not for the faint of heart and wallet.

Though I own the 1266TC which has the boom boom bass, I use the Susvara 80% of the time even with bassy music. Anyone who says the Susvara can’t have a strong bass… take it with a grain of salt.


----------



## 801evan

chargedcapacitor said:


> Susvara's bass isn't as strong as LCD, Focal, or 1266 bass, no matter how you amplify it.


Susvara has better bass than lcd4, even on a dac amp like ifi Diablo on low gain.


----------



## 801evan

krude said:


> If you want to have strong bass without EQ you need a headphone with harman tunning for bass. That being said there are not many totl sets that will give you this, as audiophile gear usually has flat / reference bass tuning.


Stealth is very close to harman and the major difference between that and the Susvara is the Stealth has more midbass. Both has amazing sub-bass quantity and density with the Stealth having a bit more quantity. EQ has no ability to simulate the bass of a lower noise floor.


----------



## prismstorm

MatW said:


> If you see it as a 'problem' then yeah you should go ahead and sell the Susvara to buy an Abyss 1266 TC. The Ferrum stack is perfectly capable of driving the TC too, so no harm done there imo. Why wait?


Because there's no dealer for Abyss in my area so it'll be a potential sight-unseen sound-unheard $5995 mistake. I'd rather get the Meze Elite to get some bass, much cheaper, comfortable and I've demoed it 3 times now with positive feedback.


krude said:


> Also don't beat yourself up, getting solid bass out of Susvara is a quest that pretty much every Susvara owner goes on ... it needs a lot of experimentation, investment, time, dedication, it can be done, but took me round 8 months to get to where I want to be with it. TC gives you bass in spades from almost any chain, you have to fight to get it to sound clean with good midrange though, but Oor will sort this out pretty much.


The thing is aside from spending another obscene amount on another amp, I think this is as far as I can go for this combo, I have met the drivability requirement of the headphones with a well-received combination with a proven synergy. 

I have switched from the Black Dragon to the Silver Dragon and there was slight improvements in soundstage, instrument separation, and a little tightening in the low end. Nothing drastic though. I remember you really praise the Lavricables Grand Silver, but before I spend on a cable that is more than double the price of my Silver Cable, I want to make sure it's going to get me positive improvements first ...


----------



## krude

prismstorm said:


> Because there's no dealer for Abyss in my area so it'll be a potential sight-unseen sound-unheard $5995 mistake. I'd rather get the Meze Elite to get some bass, much cheaper, comfortable and I've demoed it 3 times now with positive feedback.
> 
> The thing is aside from spending another obscene amount on another amp, I think this is as far as I can go for this combo, I have met the drivability requirement of the headphones with a well-received combination with a proven synergy.
> 
> I have switched from the Black Dragon to the Silver Dragon and there was slight improvements in soundstage, instrument separation, and a little tightening in the low end. Nothing drastic though. I remember you really praise the Lavricables Grand Silver, but before I spend on a cable that is more than double the price of my Silver Cable, I want to make sure it's going to get me positive improvements first ...


I forgot the Empyrean, that was a very nice, basy and impactful headphone. If Elite has the same character it is indeed another option and if you like the sound signature then sounds like a plan. Silver won't give you a bass lift, but it will improve the micro and macro dynamics making the whole spectrum sharper. I like my headphones sharp and my dac + amp detailed and smooth, but there's a hundred ways to skin the cat.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

Pashmeister said:


> Susvara bass is usually the first thing that sounds punchier and fuller the better the chain and amplification gets. It’s not easy to get there though, and is not for the faint of heart and wallet.
> 
> Though I own the 1266TC which has the boom boom bass, I use the Susvara 80% of the time even with bassy music. Anyone who says the Susvara can’t have a strong bass… take it with a grain of salt.


That statement is setting people up to be disappointed, if they are looking to the susvara as a headphone that can accurately reproduce percussion sounds as well as the LCD or focal line of headphones. Anyone upgrading from an LCD-x to a susvara would be quite disappointed in the bass punch.

On top of that, high fidelity $5000+ amps are not needed to faithfully reproduce and handle bass / kicks on the susvara. Any decent speaker amp will show the susvaras low end capability. 

Keep in mind, this whole argument revolves around the statement not that the susvara has bad sub bass (it has great sub bass), but that it does not have the leading edge "punch" that accurately renders what a kick drum or similar sounds and feels like.


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## krude (Mar 3, 2022)

chargedcapacitor said:


> That statement is setting people up to be disappointed, if they are looking to the susvara as a headphone that can accurately reproduce percussion sounds as well as the LCD or focal line of headphones. Anyone upgrading from an LCD-x to a susvara would be quite disappointed in the bass punch.
> 
> On top of that, high fidelity $5000+ amps are not needed to faithfully reproduce and handle bass / kicks on the susvara. Any decent speaker amp will show the susvaras low end capability.
> 
> Keep in mind, this whole argument revolves around the statement not that the susvara has bad sub bass (it has great sub bass), but that it does not have the leading edge "punch" that accurately renders what a kick drum or similar sounds and feels like.


I will respectfully disagree. On stock cable, yes, in my setup you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who would compain about impact, and I owned both LCD X and the Empyrean, both with great impact in their own right. In fact I would rate Susvara on similar level impact wise.


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## OneEyedHito (Mar 3, 2022)

prismstorm said:


> Got the Ferrum OOR + HYPSOS stack and the chain is Macbook Pro > AudioQuest Cinnamon USB Cable > Bifrost 2 Unison USB > XLR Interconnect > Ferrum OOR (powered by HYPSOS) > XLR out to Susvara
> 
> Although the sound is very transparent and clean, bass is still not that strong, and even on high gain mode (+dB) the volume knob is cranked to 3 o'clock position and Susvara is still not having enough power or sounding full or loud enough. HYPSOS display indicates output power to be around 15-17W and output current at 0.6-0.8A.
> 
> What gives? Is Susvara still being underpowered, I thought this combo is already one of the best (testified by many to work well) for driving it? Or time to switch to another headphone?


Using Hypsos and Oor the output should be 24V, check that figure first.

EDIT: I see in your cross posting to another thread that you gave more detail in a subsequent post and clarified that you are on the correct setting.


----------



## iFi audio

chargedcapacitor said:


> On top of that, high fidelity $5000+ amps are not needed to faithfully reproduce and handle bass / kicks on the susvara. Any decent speaker amp will show the susvaras low end capability.



Yes, hundreds of feedback pages in the Susvara thread show that there's some connection there for sure.


----------



## jlbrach

FooFighter said:


> Am wondering a bit about the necessity of remote control for headphone usage or do you guys have 3m cables attached sitting in some distant armchair?
> My cables are usually too short (and too expensive to be too long 😉)


even if close it is a big convenience...I have my set up in my bedroom and the remote is a real nice thing to have


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## jlbrach

Sajid Amit said:


> Yup. That's just how it is.


huh?...susvara bass is better than utopia...not even close


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## jlbrach

dematted said:


> Not sure if it had to do with the dac which it was hooked up to, (and obviously take all this with a grain of salt because meet conditions etc.) but I was genuinely unimpressed by the OOR + Hypsos combo at Canjam. I listened to it with a couple different things: my Mini (Custom headphone made by a start-up), a Utopia, and a few other ETA's (The startup in question). Overall, it sounded very reminiscent of two much cheaper amps: the JDS Atom, and Magni Heresy. In short, it sounded like a cheap op-amp implementation. Now, I'm not sure if that's how the amp is actually designed, but the sound overall was, despite being pretty clear and for the most part timbrally correct, very dull and unengaging. Transients lacked edge and slam, microdynamics were almost completely absent, and the music sounded, though not "off", as if it really lacked (to use a term Ferrum likes) "Soul". This is probably attributable to the fact that the amp just didn't seem to dig very deep, and smeared over the finer gradations of music (what many refer to as "texture" or "plankton"). I think it tries to get away from some of the characteristic problems with SS by having what is definitely a warm tonal bent, but this just ends up masking over some detail in the treble, I think. It also sounds pretty "Slow": not in a "rounded transients" sort of way, but more in the sense that individual notes were not particularly visceral or immediate sounding.
> 
> Overall, I'd expect this amp to cost somewhere from 300-500, not $3000 with the Hypsos power supply. The iFi amps, by contrast, (even the cheaper ones, like the Diablo and Gryphon) had much more character and engagement. Maybe it does better with planars, which I did not try it with. Or maybe this unit was a dud, or maybe the dac it was hooked up to just wasn't great. Or maybe my ears just don't jive with it for whatever reason. Anyways, a big disappointment for me, as an SS on the level of, say, an ECP DSHA-3F at an accessible price which can be easily purchased would be a great thing. But to my ears, it didn't come anywhere close to the 3F. No solid state amp I've heard does.


I dont own it but given the reviews I have read and the raves something is wrong in your setup somewhere


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## HiFiHawaii808

jlbrach said:


> huh?...susvara bass is better than utopia...not even close


maybe for texture and detail, but not for punch and slam.


----------



## jlbrach

Pashmeister said:


> Susvara bass is usually the first thing that sounds punchier and fuller the better the chain and amplification gets. It’s not easy to get there though, and is not for the faint of heart and wallet.
> 
> Though I own the 1266TC which has the boom boom bass, I use the Susvara 80% of the time even with bassy music. Anyone who says the Susvara can’t have a strong bass… take it with a grain of salt.


agree 100%...susvara has terrific bass...is it as impactful as the abyss?...no but nothing is...but it is accurate and deep and really good...like everything else depends on your chain which is why the susvara is such a controversial HP


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

jlbrach said:


> I dont own it but given the reviews I have read and the raves something is wrong in your setup somewhere


I agree.  I think the problem may be with the Bifrost 2.    First, I would get rid of USB and replace it with a streamer.    The Bifrost 2 has a balanced output of 4V.    May need something more than that or a preamp.


----------



## LarsMan

jlbrach said:


> huh?...susvara bass is better than utopia...not even close


That has not been my experience....


----------



## LarsMan

jlbrach said:


> I dont own it but given the reviews I have read and the raves something is wrong in your setup somewher
> 
> 
> jlbrach said:
> ...


----------



## chargedcapacitor

LarsMan said:


> That has not been my experience....


Nor mine, or most owners. But I think it's time to get the conversation back on amplifiers!


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## jlbrach

amp go along with HP's lol


----------



## prismstorm

krude said:


> I forgot the Empyrean, that was a very nice, basy and impactful headphone. If Elite has the same character it is indeed another option and if you like the sound signature then sounds like a plan. Silver won't give you a bass lift, but it will improve the micro and macro dynamics making the whole spectrum sharper. I like my headphones sharp and my dac + amp detailed and smooth, but there's a hundred ways to skin the cat.


I wanted to 'fix' the bass so I changed to the Black Dragon first, there was a slight hint of warmth and didn't really give it a whole lot of bass. Thus I tried the Silver Dragon next, it made everything sound more open and transparent, I thought it was a bit better than the Black Dragon, so I'm sticking with Silver. Of course it is still bass light compared to Empyrean or Elite or LCD-4Z. I might get the Elite down the line and give up on the Susvara chain and just accept it as it is. 


chargedcapacitor said:


> That statement is setting people up to be disappointed, if they are looking to the susvara as a headphone that can accurately reproduce percussion sounds as well as the LCD or focal line of headphones. Anyone upgrading from an LCD-x to a susvara would be quite disappointed in the bass punch.
> 
> On top of that, high fidelity $5000+ amps are not needed to faithfully reproduce and handle bass / kicks on the susvara. Any decent speaker amp will show the susvaras low end capability.
> 
> Keep in mind, this whole argument revolves around the statement not that the susvara has bad sub bass (it has great sub bass), but that it does not have the leading edge "punch" that accurately renders what a kick drum or similar sounds and feels like.


Susvara is reproducing bass accurately, many low frequencies sound very timbre correct. It's just that the bass is so flat, the impact is so tamed and the quantity is so scarce that rock / pop / electronic all sound soft, overly polite, emotionless and un-engaging. 


OneEyedHito said:


> Using Hypsos and Oor the output should be 24V, check that figure first.
> 
> EDIT: I see in your cross posting to another thread that you gave more detail in a subsequent post and clarified that you are on the correct setting.


Yes I did set it at 24V for the Oor, the Hypsos has a factory configuration for Ferrum OOR so there's no mistaking it. I seem to have done everything correctly and have almost narrowed down the culprit to be the Susvara itself, and not a deficiency in the chain ...


----------



## prismstorm

Some other questions for Ferrum owners here:

1) Do you guys ever adjust the voltage of a device, such as using 30V for the OOR instead of 24V? I have tried increasing the voltage but of course everything sounded exactly the same. It didn't make the Susvara sound any less soft. I think even if properly driven Susvara simply is a soft, gentle headphone not made for impact or having much bass.

2) Do you guys leave the '4 Terminal Sensing' and 'Spread Spectrum Mode' on? I tried turning them off but either way couldn't hear a difference.


----------



## dematted

krude said:


> Wow that's unfortunate. It is a dark sounding amp comparatively, but if it sounded worse than Micro iDSD to you then something wasn't right with the setup I would think.



Well, it was Ferrum itself who designed the setup, so that's sort of on them. Perhaps they did set it up incorrectly, or perhaps the dac was holding it back (though it was a Ferrum Dac, I believe). Either way, it sounded very unimpressive to me compared to the other stuff I've heard at its price-point (Pendant OG, ECP 3F, various Elekit amps). It did do some things like clarity and timbre right, but the dynamics were extremely unimpressive, as was the general ability to actually resolve musical information.


----------



## dematted

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I agree.  I think the problem may be with the Bifrost 2.    First, I would get rid of USB and replace it with a streamer.    The Bifrost 2 has a balanced output of 4V.    May need something more than that or a preamp.



I wasn't using it with a Bifrost 2. I was using it with Ferrum's own dac, as I heard it at Canjam.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Mar 3, 2022)

dematted said:


> Not sure if it had to do with the dac which it was hooked up to, (and obviously take all this with a grain of salt because meet conditions etc.) but I was genuinely unimpressed by the OOR + Hypsos combo at Canjam. I listened to it with a couple different things: my Mini (Custom headphone made by a start-up), a Utopia, and a few other ETA's (The startup in question). Overall, it sounded very reminiscent of two much cheaper amps: the JDS Atom, and Magni Heresy. In short, it sounded like a cheap op-amp implementation. Now, I'm not sure if that's how the amp is actually designed, but the sound overall was, despite being pretty clear and for the most part timbrally correct, very dull and unengaging. Transients lacked edge and slam, microdynamics were almost completely absent, and the music sounded, though not "off", as if it really lacked (to use a term Ferrum likes) "Soul". This is probably attributable to the fact that the amp just didn't seem to dig very deep, and smeared over the finer gradations of music (what many refer to as "texture" or "plankton"). I think it tries to get away from some of the characteristic problems with SS by having what is definitely a warm tonal bent, but this just ends up masking over some detail in the treble, I think. It also sounds pretty "Slow": not in a "rounded transients" sort of way, but more in the sense that individual notes were not particularly visceral or immediate sounding.
> 
> Overall, I'd expect this amp to cost somewhere from 300-500, not $3000 with the Hypsos power supply. The iFi amps, by contrast, (even the cheaper ones, like the Diablo and Gryphon) had much more character and engagement. Maybe it does better with planars, which I did not try it with. Or maybe this unit was a dud, or maybe the dac it was hooked up to just wasn't great. Or maybe my ears just don't jive with it for whatever reason. Anyways, a big disappointment for me, as an SS on the level of, say, an ECP DSHA-3F at an accessible price which can be easily purchased would be a great thing. But to my ears, it didn't come anywhere close to the 3F. No solid state amp I've heard does.


Yeah, I was there.   They had a horrible set up that required good wifi which they didn't get.  So, their set up was terrible.   If you hooked up your own source with your own music, then it came out stunningly good.    I think the Vana guys shot themselves in the foot at CanJam NYC by having a horrible demo set up.    We hooked it up with an SP1000 directly to the back of the Ferrum Orr with dual 3 pin XLR and it drove my Susvara sublimely which I plugged into the front of the Orr with 4 pin XLR.   You need to go fully balanced input and output to get the best performance.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

dematted said:


> I wasn't using it with a Bifrost 2. I was using it with Ferrum's own dac, as I heard it at Canjam.


Ferrum doesn't have its own standalone DAC yet.   It's not scheduled for release until May.   Not sure what you were listening to.    They had a DAC/Amp combo that was on the left side of the table that I didn't hear.   I think it is called the ERCO.  It is a combination DAC/Amp that Ferrum just released.    That was not the Ferrum Orr + Hypsos that we are talking about on this thread.   The 2nd and 3rd set up which was connected to the same source in the middle with the iPad was the Ferrum Orr+ Hypsos.   The DAC was under the table and they wouldn't tell us what it was.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

prismstorm said:


> Some other questions for Ferrum owners here:
> 
> 1) Do you guys ever adjust the voltage of a device, such as using 30V for the OOR instead of 24V? I have tried increasing the voltage but of course everything sounded exactly the same. It didn't make the Susvara sound any less soft. I think even if properly driven Susvara simply is a soft, gentle headphone not made for impact or having much bass.


Yes, unfortunately you probably read on this forum or others that having the right cables / DAC / amp will make the susvara bass hit hard. It won't, under any circumstance. That's just not what it's designed for. You can get certain aspects of the bass elevated by installing different pads, or doing the port mod. But it only works to varying degrees. Save your money, don't spend $$$$$ to get the susvara to be the headphone it can't be. Get an LCD, Utopia, or 1266. Try before you buy when you can!


----------



## 801evan

dematted said:


> Not sure if it had to do with the dac which it was hooked up to, (and obviously take all this with a grain of salt because meet conditions etc.) but I was genuinely unimpressed by the OOR + Hypsos combo at Canjam.


You're not wrong. While the rest of the chain is a big factor, the Hypsos isn't all that. My ipower x and ifi elite performs better than the Hypsos. The Hypsos buys convenience.  Consistently ppl who love the hypsos + orr are speaker amp lovers and consistently, speaker amps won't give that sub bass and they blame it's the Susvara. 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️


----------



## 801evan

DAPpower said:


> I have demoed the Ferrum Stack and compared it with my Gustard X26 Pro and Burson GT with upgraded op amps and I would say that I would prefer my setup over the Ferrum Stack in terms of sheer clarity and dynamics (they're sort of close but the GT has a slight edge over it) but I had to spend way more money than the Ferrum Stack itself with the upgrades and it just shows you the level of value for performance you get with the Ferrum Stack, amazing.


Were you able to try the hypsos running the GT and compare to the ORR?


----------



## krude (Mar 4, 2022)

So many misconceptions here, I would suggest people who didn't have the ability to test Ferrum gear at home to take their experiences with a grain of salt. Things that are being said here are: a) confusing and b) not true for majority of Ferrum owners. Not to say one should not talk about bad experiences, but there are so many variables to one off experiences you should really investigate further before making any claims.

As for Susvara, again so many conflicting opinions. There are 2 things with Susvaras general sound, dynamics and bass.

1. Susvara has a neutral, flat bass. Not elevated at all. If you don't know what Harman target is and you don't know how to read frequency response graphs maybe you should not complain about a 6k headphone. Not being funny but educate yourself first please. There are plenty of guides online. Andrew Resolve on YT explains it really well for example.

2. Susvara has a very inefficient driver and comes with a cable made from recycled gummy bears. This cable does not work with this set and it's the same cable you get with cans for 500 quid. To get dynamics from Susvara your chain has to be strong. Your signal is only as good as your weakest link. Susvara is a totl set through and through and it will punish your chain like nothing else. Every single bit matters. It's a set that forces you to learn and explore. People who post blanket statements here, I do understand you, but please consider that maybe you didn't have the setup to drive it, or the knowledge to set it up as you want it.

3. Add the two above together = to get elevated bass out of Susvara you either need a chain with naturally elevated bass (like a speaker amp that will have elevated bass at 60 ohms) or EQ, and you need to understand how it works first. To get good dynamics you need a good chain which includes good cable. Will it hit as hard as TC or Utopia? No, but nothing else will either. Will it hit as hard as most other planars? Absolutely.

Also before anyone says they are disappointed with something, at least also say what you define as good before making statements. Otherwise this is starting to turn into a meaningless stream of disinformation.

Also when buying 9k worth of gear you should really have some knowledge already or be prepared to learn. It's like buying a sports car and not knowing what front wheel drive or rear wheel drive is.


----------



## Pashmeister (Mar 4, 2022)

chargedcapacitor said:


> Yes, unfortunately you probably read on this forum or others that having the right cables / DAC / amp will make the susvara bass hit hard. It won't, under any circumstance. That's just not what it's designed for. You can get certain aspects of the bass elevated by installing different pads, or doing the port mod. But it only works to varying degrees. Save your money, don't spend $$$$$ to get the susvara to be the headphone it can't be. Get an LCD, Utopia, or 1266. Try before you buy when you can!


The only statement I agree with here is to try before you buy when you can. Thankfully I’ve tried them all, and with a multitude of set ups, to be secure with my own disagreement.


----------



## prismstorm

chargedcapacitor said:


> Yes, unfortunately you probably read on this forum or others that having the right cables / DAC / amp will make the susvara bass hit hard. It won't, under any circumstance. That's just not what it's designed for. You can get certain aspects of the bass elevated by installing different pads, or doing the port mod. But it only works to varying degrees. Save your money, don't spend $$$$$ to get the susvara to be the headphone it can't be. Get an LCD, Utopia, or 1266. Try before you buy when you can!


I see that you own the Susvara and a myriad of Audezes, the lack of bass on the Susvaras must be that much more prominent when compared to something like LCD4.


----------



## 801evan

prismstorm said:


> I see that you own the Susvara and a myriad of Audezes, the lack of bass on the Susvaras must be that much more prominent when compared to something like LCD4.


LCD4 has a bass peak that's why it comes off more bassy than the Susvara. It's a fatiguing punch that should be EQ'd out. Even with stock cable, Susvara has a much better bass quality than an LCD4 with upgrade cables.


----------



## Sajid Amit

jlbrach said:


> huh?...susvara bass is better than utopia...not even close


Better meaning tighter yes. Faster for sure. More detailed even. 

So yes, I could see the argument for better. 🙂

But I was thinking that the Utopia punches harder; as does the TC. 

That’s probably due to the drivers on the Utopia, more than any bass shelf.

Even Focal speakers have awesome macrodynamics.

It’s a thing I appreciate about Focal.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

prismstorm said:


> I see that you own the Susvara and a myriad of Audezes, the lack of bass on the Susvaras must be that much more prominent when compared to something like LCD4.


Once again, I don't think the Susvara lacks bass. It's just softer than Audeze / Focal / Abyss. Drums don't sound as real and impactful, and it is by a wide margin. Even with EQ. That is my one and only argument.


----------



## 801evan

TOTL HPs shouldn't have 'punch'/'impact' if it's not in the track. Those are congestions, bass peaks and distortion. Too many reviewers make it out like punch is a good quality. But it's not. Punch on the Utopia and Abyss is distortion. If one likes it, then that's a subjective issue but never should be a 'quality' of an HP to be praised about.


----------



## K3cT

dematted said:


> Well, it was Ferrum itself who designed the setup, so that's sort of on them. Perhaps they did set it up incorrectly, or perhaps the dac was holding it back (though it was a Ferrum Dac, I believe). Either way, it sounded very unimpressive to me compared to the other stuff I've heard at its price-point (Pendant OG, ECP 3F, various Elekit amps). It did do some things like clarity and timbre right, but the dynamics were extremely unimpressive, as was the general ability to actually resolve musical information.



Not the first mention that OOR is said to be lacking in dynamics. That Michael de Lazzer review mentioned the same thing too.


----------



## tawmizzzz

Man I was close to buying the OOR Hypsos stack but now on the fence. Wish there were more comparisons against the iDSD Pro Signature aside from the one shared earlier.

No one here has heard the Wells Audio Dragon L2 & Ferrum to compare as well? I’m aware the former is a tube hybrid but am looking to supplement it with a musical solid state that can better drive susvara down the line.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

K3cT said:


> Not the first mention that OOR is said to be lacking in dynamics. That Michael de Lazzer review mentioned the same thing too.


Didn't he walk back on that claim?


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## krude (Mar 4, 2022)

chargedcapacitor said:


> Didn't he walk back on that claim?


He did, was comparing single ended against balanced. You can only get the full info from the comment section.


----------



## kumar402

tawmizzzz said:


> Man I was close to buying the OOR Hypsos stack but now on the fence. Wish there were more comparisons against the iDSD Pro Signature aside from the one shared earlier.
> 
> No one here has heard the Wells Audio Dragon L2 & Ferrum to compare as well? I’m aware the former is a tube hybrid but am looking to supplement it with a musical solid state that can better drive susvara down the line.


I guess best is to get from dealer with good return policy and check out yourself at comfort of home.


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## Dr_Hibbert (Mar 4, 2022)

tawmizzzz said:


> Man I was close to buying the OOR Hypsos stack but now on the fence. Wish there were more comparisons against the iDSD Pro Signature aside from the one shared earlier.
> 
> No one here has heard the Wells Audio Dragon L2 & Ferrum to compare as well? I’m aware the former is a tube hybrid but am looking to supplement it with a musical solid state that can better drive susvara down the line.


i previously had the ican pro signature and am now awaiting the oor/hypsos.  also tried the soloist GT.  all with susvara.  will post a comparison after i get some hours on the ferrum stack.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

801evan said:


> TOTL HPs shouldn't have 'punch'/'impact' if it's not in the track. Those are congestions, bass peaks and distortion. Too many reviewers make it out like punch is a good quality. But it's not. Punch on the Utopia and Abyss is distortion. If one likes it, then that's a subjective issue but never should be a 'quality' of an HP to be praised about.


That's not the problem.   It's the opposite.  For certain music, when it does require impact, Susvara does not deliver enough of it relative to 1266TC and Utopia. That's the point.


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## OneEyedHito (Mar 4, 2022)

tawmizzzz said:


> Man I was close to buying the OOR Hypsos stack but now on the fence. Wish there were more comparisons against the iDSD Pro Signature aside from the one shared earlier.
> 
> No one here has heard the Wells Audio Dragon L2 & Ferrum to compare as well? I’m aware the former is a tube hybrid but am looking to supplement it with a musical solid state that can better drive susvara down the line.


I have had both of the amps you mentioned and listened through Roon to Ultrarendu to Spring 3 KTE to both amps using most of the TOTL headphones.  They are both great at their price points, the Ferrum Stack has better dynamics due to the Quieter quiet parts of music and then a sense of a wider sound stage due to the same.  Dollar to Dollar I prefer the Oor/Hypsos over the iCan Pro Sig in this regards:
Ferrum Stack with a Tube Pre like the WA22 I prefer the Ferrum 2 to 1 over the iFi, without a tube pre I would say it is a 1.3 to 1 preference.  I like Tubes and the iFi Signature offers the ability to change back and forth from SS to Tube Buffer and it works great with some headphones like the Utopia to be able to do that on that unit for much less money than the Ferrum Stack and a WA22 Tube Pre.

Can't go wrong with either but you get more in dynamics and soundstage size from the Ferrum Stack....... Hope this helps.


----------



## OneEyedHito (Mar 4, 2022)

801evan said:


> TOTL HPs shouldn't have 'punch'/'impact' if it's not in the track. Those are congestions, bass peaks and distortion. Too many reviewers make it out like punch is a good quality. But it's not. Punch on the Utopia and Abyss is distortion. If one likes it, then that's a subjective issue but never should be a 'quality' of an HP to be praised about.


I know I will regret replying to you............but sowhatwtf it is a friday.  Drummers don't all KICK the KICK drum with the same force, Drummers don't all hit their top hats with the same force. There is not a standard recording level/output level for recording engineers on drums........Punch/Impact being represented isn't linear from track to track just as it isn't linear from headphone to headphone.  Some headphones have better low reach or dynamics that can better represent Punch/Impact.....you are one of 2 or 3 folks in all of these threads that continues with this distortion/power supply soap box and it is again pedantic.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

tawmizzzz said:


> Man I was close to buying the OOR Hypsos stack but now on the fence. Wish there were more comparisons against the iDSD Pro Signature aside from the one shared earlier.
> 
> No one here has heard the Wells Audio Dragon L2 & Ferrum to compare as well? I’m aware the former is a tube hybrid but am looking to supplement it with a musical solid state that can better drive susvara down the line.


Its hard to do such comparisons because it's hard to get the 2 amps in the same place at the same time to do it.   The dealers are different.  I've heard the iDSD Pro Signature when I was shopping for tube amps and I found at that time that hybrids don't sound like tube amps at all, so I ruled it out for my needs.   I heard it with my ZMF Verite Closed and for those headphones it did not work.    I did demo the Clear MG and Clear OG on it which is when I decided I preferred the OG over the MG.   It sounded okay but nothing special.   The Ferrum Orr on the other hand is the best I have ever heard my Focal Utopias.   It takes a headphone that otherwise has a relatively small sound stage and makes it grand and fixes the treble problems I had with it.  To be honest, the Ferrum Orr improves the Utopia more than it improves the Susvara.    Don't get me wrong, I bought the Orr because in part because it really pairs well with my Susvara and adds a nice alterative signature to my Ampsandsound Rockwell tube amp with a slightly more bass emphasis than the mids focused tube amp.    But, the percentage improvement in sound to the Susvara is a lot smaller than it is for the Utopia.   I am excited to see what a tube preamp can do with the Orr per @Sajid Amit's review of it with the Primaluna EVO 400 preamp.


----------



## LarsMan

K3cT said:


> Not the first mention that OOR is said to be lacking in dynamics. That Michael de Lazzer review mentioned the same thing too.


As an Oor stack owner, I'd like to say that my experience is that it's one of the most dynamic headphone amps I've ever heard. Mine rocks like a beast.... So different people have different experiences with the same product.... I enjoy Michael's reviews a lot, even though sometimes I disagree with his evaluations, but he kept the Oor and sold the other SPL Phonitor he had, so apparently the dynamics were quite sufficient for him...


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

LarsMan said:


> As an Oor stack owner, I'd like to say that my experience is that it's one of the most dynamic headphone amps I've ever heard. Mine rocks like a beast.... So different people have different experiences with the same product.... I enjoy Michael's reviews a lot, even though sometimes I disagree with his evaluations, but he kept the Oor and sold the other SPL Phonitor he had, so apparently the dynamics were quite sufficient for him...


He's entertaining, but it's hard for me to take seriously someone who had Sultan win a shootout with Odin.


----------



## LarsMan

OneEyedHito said:


> I know I will regret replying to you............but sowhatwtf it is a friday.  Drummers don't all KICK the KICK drum with the same force, Drummers don't all hit their top hats with the same force. There is not a standard recording level/output level for recording engineers on drums........Punch/Impact being represented isn't linear from track to track just as it isn't linear from headphone to headphone.  Some headphones have better low reach or dynamics that can better represent Punch/Impact.....you are one of 2 or 3 folks in all of these threads that continues with this distortion/power supply soap box and it is again pedantic.


... and there are always 'Beats'!


----------



## LarsMan

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> He's entertaining, but it's hard for me to take seriously someone who had Sultan win a shootout with Odin.


I don't know what a Sultan and an Odin are - IEM's I'd guess? Never heard one, so I've got no opinion on his opinions on that!


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

LarsMan said:


> I don't know what a Sultan and an Odin are - IEM's I'd guess? Never heard one, so I've got no opinion on his opinions on that!


Yeah, IEMs.    Maybe he is better with headphones and headphone gear.


----------



## kumar402

Wow reading all these impression about Susvara, it feels like someone is describing the sound signature of Sonnet Morpheus DAC. Great cohesive sound, excellent Timbre and Tonality. You can listen to it for hours. Has good Bass but just that the slam misses the mark in few songs when you are in that sort of mood. I can totally relate to that.  
Looks like Susvara need Rockna Wavedream to rock it.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

kumar402 said:


> Wow reading all these impression about Susvara, it feels like someone is describing the sound signature of Sonnet Morpheus DAC. Great cohesive sound, excellent Timbre and Tonality. You can listen to it for hours. Has good Bass but just that the slam misses the mark in few songs when you are in that sort of mood. I can totally relate to that.
> Looks like Susvara need Rockna Wavedream to rock it.


Nailed it.  That's Susvara when paired with the right DAC and AMP.


----------



## Tachyon88 (Mar 4, 2022)

@prismstorm What song were you listening to when you posted the picture of your volume ? I'm willing to bet nothing is wrong in your setup, but rather reading all of the impressions has lead to unrealistic expectations. Also people have noted that the susvara has good bass, but its _softer_, but then you read with the right "synergy" it can be _unlocked _! "wow this is what its supposed to sound like".....well I guess you're hearing exactly that now... So even with the "right" gear it still soft. I've noted users saying that this is STILL the case even with something like the AHB2 - "proper" amplification.....

To me, even on my peasant gear the susvara lines up with what I have been reading and expecting.. its only relatively softer compared to other headphones all things equal, but I would say this is the nature of the driver regardless of "proper" amplification, IMO.

I was curious about the dac/amp combo, but now I'm not so sure. What do you think ?


----------



## iFi audio

jlbrach said:


> susvara is such a controversial HP



Susvara is, well, demanding, but not as controversial as HD800 were after their release more than a decade ago. Now that was one polarizing product in the good sense of the word  

Good old days when on one end we had LCD-2 fans, while folks into HD800 were entrenched on the other


----------



## 801evan (Mar 4, 2022)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> That's not the problem.   It's the opposite.  For certain music, when it does require impact, Susvara does not deliver enough of it relative to 1266TC and Utopia. That's the point.


'requires' impact is subjective. And that means the preference for 1266tc/utopia/lcd4 is a subjective preference to bass peak (lcd4) and distortion (utopia/1266tc). With a poor signal chain, you WILL need the distortion of both to get the punch and impact your hungry for because of poor signal chain. Same reason why the same ppl are hyping Susvara with speaker amps because they have little clue on getting a low noise floor and saying susvara lacks bass.

Distortion likes distortion. That's why the false impression that utopia and TC punches harder. It doesn't punch harder, it just distorts harder.



OneEyedHito said:


> I know I will regret replying to you............but sowhatwtf it is a friday.  Drummers don't all KICK the KICK drum with the same force, Drummers don't all hit their top hats with the same force. There is not a standard recording level/output level for recording engineers on drums........Punch/Impact being represented isn't linear from track to track just as it isn't linear from headphone to headphone.  Some headphones have better low reach or dynamics that can better represent Punch/Impact.....you are one of 2 or 3 folks in all of these threads that continues with this distortion/power supply soap box and it is again pedantic.


You're talking about two things. Your kick drum point and the variance of such is something that's in the recording.  But why transfer that to different headphones hitting the kick drum differently on the same track. 😂

And yes, susvara and stealth has that low reach quality. Exactly why the very active posters here cry it lacks bass because of their poor signal chain, but blames the susvara. But again, you are confusing 'punch' and impact with low reach. Those are completely opposite.


----------



## krude (Mar 4, 2022)

801evan said:


> 'requires' impact is subjective. And that means the preference for 1266tc/utopia/lcd4 is a subjective preference to bass peak (lcd4) and distortion (utopia/1266tc). With a poor signal chain, you WILL need the distortion of both to get the punch and impact your hungry for because of poor signal chain. Same reason why the same ppl are hyping Susvara with speaker amps because they have little clue on getting a low noise floor and saying susvara lacks bass.
> 
> Distortion likes distortion. That's why the false impression that utopia and TC punches harder. It doesn't punch harder, it just distorts harder.
> 
> ...


I know a thing or two about audio engineering and what you say makes little sense to me as a whole. Single bits ring true, but it looks like you could be conflating a few things and creating your own theory. What do you understand as distortion?

And yes, the physical intensity with which a driver is able to reproduce a transient is often called slam, and it is just that, the amount of physicality a driver is able to reproduce. That's why most dynamic drivers slam harder. Same for IEMs, pretty much all of them with DD for bass slam harder (with exceptions), it's simple physics.

I'm not saying that there are no grains of truth with what you're saying, but it's not nearly as black and white as you're making it up to be.

Tube amps with high impedance out create "distortion" and elevated bass, most noticeable again with DD sets, but it's a desired effect. Tube amps also give you a perception of more bass bc they introduce harmonic distortion. Is it bad? No, it's what people use for music prosuction itself, it's part of the music production and reproduction since forever pretty much. It's a very wide topic and it looks to me like you're trying to give simple answers to complex questions and make a dogma out of it. Sorry didn't mean to sound offensive but it's simply wrong.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

krude said:


> I know a tthing or two about audio engineering and what you say makes little sense to me as a whole. Single bits ring true, but it looks like you could be conflating a few things and creating your own theory. What do you understand as distortion?
> 
> And yes, the physical intensity with which a driver is able to reproduce a transient is often called slam, and it is just that, the amount of physicality a driver is able to reproduce. That's why most dynamic drivers slam harder. Same for IEMs, prety much all of them with DD for bass slam harder (with exceptions), it's simple physics.
> 
> ...


They are a known troll, it's best to just ignore them.


----------



## krude

chargedcapacitor said:


> They are a known troll, it's best to just ignore them.


I see 😂🙈


----------



## 801evan

krude said:


> I know a ting or two about audio engineering and what you say makes little sense to me as a whole. Single bits ring true, but it looks like you could be conflating a few things and creating your own theory. What do you understand as distortion?
> 
> And yes, the physical intensity with which a driver is able to reproduce a transient is often called slam, and it is just that, the amount of physicality a driver is able to reproduce. That's why most dynamic drivers slam harder. Same for IEMs, pretty much all of them with DD for bass slam harder (with exceptions), it's simple physics.


You are right here. What I'm saying is the poor interpretation of reviewers in thinking this and then thinking the utopia is reproducing that correctly is quite wrong. 




krude said:


> Tube amps with high impedance out create "distortion" and elevated bass, most noticeable again with DD sets, but it's a desired effect. Tube amps also give you a perception of more bass bc they introduce harmonic distortion. Is it bad? No, it's what people use for music prosuction itself, it's part of the music production and reproduction since forever pretty much


You are right here but this is a discussion on TOTL.  That's like saying "oh the night mode on the phone just makes people's skin look better so people should use it on a display that 100% compliant to dci-p3. Oh dci-p3 is just too cold. It's all subjective u know."


----------



## krude (Mar 4, 2022)

801evan said:


> You are right here. What I'm saying is the poor interpretation of reviewers in thinking this and then thinking the utopia is reproducing that correctly is quite wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> You are right here but this is a discussion on TOTL.  That's like saying "oh the night mode on the phone just makes people's skin look better so people should use it on a display that 100% compliant to dci-p3. Oh dci-p3 is just too cold. It's all subjective u know."


Distortion is and always has been a part of music. In a live venue of any kind you get it in spades. The only genre with minimal distortion is classical, and in this case I would agree with you. For any other music genre distortion is the name of the game. Musicians and producers add distortion on all levels from the instruments, to processing, mixing and even mastering, because it fits their vision. Listeners often choose to add distortion because they like it. Wet sound, EQ, all sorts of other enhacers are all based around a form of distortion. You can be of opinion it's bad for you personally, and that's fine if you want your chain ultra clean and listen exclusively to music that doesn't have it baked in. But people have tastes and I think you'll find most people really like their distortion in one way or the other. Going to a live venue is pretty much all distortion. Again, is it wrong? No. Is elevation in FR distortion? Depends how you look at it, I would say tuning choice is not distortion. Anyway, very wide topic and a range of opinions but it's taste, not a is better than b. That's the beauty of building audio systems, each and every one will be different bc we all hear different and have different taste. No black and white here.


----------



## 801evan

krude said:


> Distortion is and always has been a part of music. In a live venue of any kind you get it in spades. The only genre with minimal distortion is classical, and in this case I would agree with you. For any other music genre distortion is the name of the game. Musicians and producers add distortion on all levels from the instruments, to processing, mixing and even mastering, because it fits their vision. Listeners often choose to add distortion because they like it. Wet sound, EQ, all sorts of other enhacers are all based around a form of distortion. You can be of opinion it's bad for you personally, and that's fine if you want your chain ultra clean and listen exclusively to music that doesn't have it baked in. But people have tastes and I think you'll find most people really like their distortion in one way or the other. Going to a live venue is pretty much all distortion. Again, is it wrong? No. Is elevation in FR distortion? Depends how you look at it, I would say tuning choice is not distortion. Anyway, very wide topic and a range of opinions but it's taste, not a is better than b. That's the beauty of building audio systems, each and every one will be different bc we all hear different and have different taste. No black and white here.


You are purposely mixing two things. They can throw all the distortion they want into the recording for all I care and i say go for it. But how would that put merit in adding more distortion in the playback system?

That's like saying watching Minority Report on an OLED display is fine but who cares coz they did a pushed bleach bypass process on it. They purposely added grain on it so just as well, I can add a grain filter effect on top coz for my subjective needs, it looks better and I'll share this technique to the forums and I'm not wrong. Since the image is already distorted and grainy, I'm gonna tune that with my grain filter and share that preset to people on the TOTL OLED display forum.


----------



## krude

801evan said:


> You are purposely mixing two things. They can throw all the distortion they want into the recording for all I care and i say go for it. But how would that put merit in adding more distortion in the playback system?
> 
> That's like saying watching Minority Report on an OLED display is fine but who cares coz they did a pushed bleach bypass process on it. They purposely added grain on it so just as well, I can add a grain filter effect on top coz for my subjective needs, it looks better and I'll share this technique to the forums and I'm not wrong. Since the image is already distorted and grainy, I'm gonna tune that with my grain filter and share that preset to people on the TOTL OLED display forum.


I'm mixing them because they are mixed. You like your systems squeaky clean, good for you. No tube lover will ever agree. This is not a purist forum otherwise word tube would be banned 😂🙈


----------



## 801evan

krude said:


> I'm mixing them because they are mixed. You like your systems squeaky clean, good for you. No tube lover will ever agree. This is not a purist forum otherwise word tube would be banned 😂🙈


??? What's a squeaky clean system for u?


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

801evan said:


> 'requires' impact is subjective. And that means the preference for 1266tc/utopia/lcd4 is a subjective preference to bass peak (lcd4) and distortion (utopia/1266tc). With a poor signal chain, you WILL need the distortion of both to get the punch and impact your hungry for because of poor signal chain. Same reason why the same ppl are hyping Susvara with speaker amps because they have little clue on getting a low noise floor and saying susvara lacks bass.
> 
> Distortion likes distortion. That's why the false impression that utopia and TC punches harder. It doesn't punch harder, it just distorts harder.


I don't have any false impressions.   Utopia and TC slam harder than Susvara and for certain music, it sounds better to me.


----------



## 801evan

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I don't have any false impressions.   Utopia and TC slam harder than Susvara and for certain music, it sounds better to me.


Yes it slams harder....that's the bass peak distortion. Which means it's extra peaky and extra 'textured' than what the track really is trying to present.


----------



## krude (Mar 5, 2022)

801evan said:


> Yes it slams harder....that's the bass peak distortion. Which means it's extra peaky and extra 'textured' than what the track really is trying to present.


No one knows what the track is trying to present. It's an old and invalid argument blown to bits in various discourses. If you had any idea how studio work works you would never think that. Each respectable engineer has at least 3 if not 5 monitoring setups ranging from bass boosted blootooth speakers and beats headphones to high class monitors as well as mono kitchen radio quality speakers. The resulting mix has to work on most. Most people still check mixes in cars. And then you get a second phase of that in the mastering house. How is anyone to say how the mix should sound 😂 you build a system to make it sound good for your ears. Period.


----------



## krude (Mar 5, 2022)

801evan said:


> Yes it slams harder....that's the bass peak distortion. Which means it's extra peaky and extra 'textured' than what the track really is trying to present.


Also most engineers don't mix with reference grade, clear, pure, zero distortion, flat FR systems in mind, bc no one owns them (apart from some of us, freaks). 🤪 that is precisely why you need a bass shelf for pedestrian club music and flat FR sets like Susvara ... which I listen to a lot tbh 🤠


----------



## Sajid Amit

OneEyedHito said:


> I know I will regret replying to you............but sowhatwtf it is a friday.  Drummers don't all KICK the KICK drum with the same force, Drummers don't all hit their top hats with the same force. There is not a standard recording level/output level for recording engineers on drums........Punch/Impact being represented isn't linear from track to track just as it isn't linear from headphone to headphone.  Some headphones have better low reach or dynamics that can better represent Punch/Impact.....you are one of 2 or 3 folks in all of these threads that continues with this distortion/power supply soap box and it is again pedantic.


Lol.


HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I don't have any false impressions.   Utopia and TC slam harder than Susvara and for certain music, it sounds better to me.


+1


----------



## krude

801evan said:


> Yes it slams harder....that's the bass peak distortion. Which means it's extra peaky and extra 'textured' than what the track really is trying to present.


Also texture is technically micro dynamics / contrast, nothing to do with slam and macro dynamics.


----------



## 801evan

krude said:


> No one knows what the track is trying to present. It's an old and invalid argument blown to bits in various discourses. If you had any idea how studio work works you would never think that. Each respectable engineer has at least 3 if not 5 monitoring setups ranging from bass boosted blootooth speakers and beats headphones to high class monitors as well as mono kitchen radio quality speakers. The resulting mix has to work on most. Most people still check mixes in cars. And then you get a second phase of that in the mastering house. How is anyone to say how the mix should sound 😂 you build a system to make it sound good for your ears. Period.


There you go. The whole goal in mixing and mastering is balance. No emphasis on bass ( or any other part). The fact that reviewers picks on the emphasis of the punch on some headphones exactly shows the peak that the chain is making. Ofc you corroborate this with incremental changes in the chain  and even take into account the measurements made by ASR and you end up seeing that it's distortion.  Trained ears would pick that up, others call it subjective preference or that some headphones punches harder than susvara. 

 Glad you agree.


----------



## Roasty

u guys have more strength than me. am surprised he is still being entertained.. I clicked Ignore a long time back.


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

I currently have a A90 and Susvara myself, before I shoot for one of these has anyone actually tried using the Hypsos on the A90? If the Oor is that much better then I'll consider upgrading to it.


----------



## 801evan

Jonathan Crouch said:


> I currently have a A90 and Susvara myself, before I shoot for one of these has anyone actually tried using the Hypsos on the A90? If the Oor is that much better then I'll consider upgrading to it.


Not compatible


----------



## Arion128 (Mar 5, 2022)

Had the chance to try the Ferrum Oor with Hypsos today. I tried the stack with abyss 1266 using Stock cable.I also tried the Ferrum For only with Hypsos. I just want to let people know that the Ferrum stack needs to work as a stack as to get its best sound quality. With the Hypsos, bass was deeper and sound stage improved. I had it on high gain and volume at about 11 to 12 o'clock when using with stack.

After that I took my Abyss 1266 and tried the Violectric V550 (however at another shop as no shop in Hk have both). With the Violectric V550, the gain was like set to zero and volume needed to be about 1 o'clock as to drive the abyss to a decent volume. I would say the Ferrum stack or Violectric V550 does the job in driving the abyss to get that soundstage and the bass. I asked the person to change the gain a higher level (I think 18 - might be not correct, he said there is still another level). Anyway with that gain the level was about 9 to 10 o'clock.

Having a difficult time on deciding which one to go for. If Ferrum then it needs to be stack as to get the best sound (I did think about buying the Oor only, however cannot now as just tried it). I would say they both on Par (stack or v550) and I think there is still more potential from the V550 volume as I was was only at 10 on the volume dial.

Price is another factor, Ferrum stack is like 3190 USD and the V550 is like 2300USD.

Both machine look nice and compact. I will also get a Dac too, the denafrips ares2

Currently have the Singer Sa1 and not a match for the abyss at all. So looking for an Amp that could cover me for a few years.

Any recommendations as will be using it to drive abyss and maybe other headphones down the road like Utopia or Abyss. Thanks and stay safe


----------



## krude

Arion128 said:


> Had the chance to try the Ferrum Oor with Hypsos today. I tried the stack with abyss 1266 using Stock cable.I also tried the Ferrum For only with Hypsos. I just want to let people know that the Ferrum stack needs to work as a stack as to get its best sound quality. With the Hypsos, bass was deeper and sound stage improved. I had it on high gain and volume at about 11 to 12 o'clock when using with stack.
> 
> After that I took my Abyss 1266 and tried the Violectric V550 (however at another shop as no shop in Hk have both). With the Violectric V550, the gain was like set to zero and volume needed to be about 1 o'clock as to drive the abyss to a decent volume. I would say the Ferrum stack or Violectric V550 does the job in driving the abyss to get that soundstage and the bass. I asked the person to change the gain a higher level (I think 18 - might be not correct, he said there is still another level). Anyway with that gain the level was about 9 to 10 o'clock.
> 
> ...


Pro tip, I'm pretty sure both are class a, and this means that you get most SQ by dropping the gain low (0 for Oor) and cranking the volume a bit higher. It gives full power at all times which is then attenuated. I think same would be true for V550 as it is true for Soloist GT as well (using it with TC and Susvara on low gain).


----------



## prismstorm

chargedcapacitor said:


> Once again, I don't think the Susvara lacks bass. It's just softer than Audeze / Focal / Abyss. Drums don't sound as real and impactful, and it is by a wide margin. Even with EQ. That is my one and only argument.


So do you keep it just for certain genres and switch to Audeze / Focal / Abyss when anything with bass is being played? I have found Susvara's tuning is great for instrumental / classical / jazz, but makes almost everything else flat, soft, emotionless, and un-engaging. 


HiFiHawaii808 said:


> That's not the problem.   It's the opposite.  For certain music, when it does require impact, Susvara does not deliver enough of it relative to 1266TC and Utopia. That's the point.


Agreed, it's not delivering world class slam for world class price, even after the chain and power has been improved to match it. I guess it's just the nature of it, and am surprised it gained such a favourable reputation even with this level of bass performance. 


Tachyon88 said:


> @prismstorm What song were you listening to when you posted the picture of your volume ? I'm willing to bet nothing is wrong in your setup, but rather reading all of the impressions has lead to unrealistic expectations. Also people have noted that the susvara has good bass, but its _softer_, but then you read with the right "synergy" it can be _unlocked _! "wow this is what its supposed to sound like".....well I guess you're hearing exactly that now... So even with the "right" gear it still soft. I've noted users saying that this is STILL the case even with something like the AHB2 - "proper" amplification.....
> 
> To me, even on my peasant gear the susvara lines up with what I have been reading and expecting.. its only relatively softer compared to other headphones all things equal, but I would say this is the nature of the driver regardless of "proper" amplification, IMO.
> 
> I was curious about the dac/amp combo, but now I'm not so sure. What do you think ?


I forgot what song I was playing at that time, but I could tell you that I constantly had to crank the volume knob on the Ferrum OOR in high gain (+dB) to 3 o'clock because everything was so inaudible. Nothing stands out and everything is hiding in the back, vocals in particular are extremely 'soft-spoken' and not prominent or present enough, thus everything that's not pure piano / orchestral / jazz simply doesn't work. Piano fares better because piano tracks rarely need 'bass slam' and does not involve 'engaging vocals'. But even in well recorded jazz tracks, the saxophone and guitars would sound good, but the vocals were always too 'subtle' to bring out the emotions, and not in a good way. 

Yes that was my impression. I watched YouTube reviews that praised the Ferrum OOR to be among the top combination with the Susvara. I also read all the impressions in this thread, and expected this stack was the 'cure' that my Susvara needed to unleash its full potential, 'find' its lack of bass, and sound tremendously better. Reality is that it did improve against the Jotenheim 2 I was using before, but it's also several time the price, and it was nowhere near the level of power I thought it would be, since I'm always in high gain and the volume is near maxed-out, not much headroom left. Everything sounds very natural, open, transparent and clear, but it's far from emotional or engaging, like how a LCD-4Z sounds. 

My current combo is Bifrost 2 balanced into Ferrum OOR powered by the HYPSOS. I am running the Susvara via Silver Dragon cable out of the OOR's XLR output in high gain.


----------



## MatW

prismstorm said:


> So do you keep it just for certain genres and switch to Audeze / Focal / Abyss when anything with bass is being played? I have found Susvara's tuning is great for instrumental / classical / jazz, but makes almost everything else flat, soft, emotionless, and un-engaging.
> 
> Agreed, it's not delivering world class slam for world class price, even after the chain and power has been improved to match it. I guess it's just the nature of it, and am surprised it gained such a favourable reputation even with this level of bass performance.
> 
> ...


The Bifrost 2 output voltage is 4V. Having a DAC that puts out a higher voltage (my DACs are ~6V) helps a lot with the volume headroom on the OOR.

To be clear, this won’t solve what you perceive to be a lack of bass. For that you should check out a TC. And either sell the Susvara or keep it for certain genres, as you said.


----------



## krude

prismstorm said:


> So do you keep it just for certain genres and switch to Audeze / Focal / Abyss when anything with bass is being played? I have found Susvara's tuning is great for instrumental / classical / jazz, but makes almost everything else flat, soft, emotionless, and un-engaging.
> 
> Agreed, it's not delivering world class slam for world class price, even after the chain and power has been improved to match it. I guess it's just the nature of it, and am surprised it gained such a favourable reputation even with this level of bass performance.
> 
> ...


I should really ignore it at this point bc you clearly ignore half of the advice you're given and you haven't even replied to a pm, but one last shot. 

I turned down output from my DAC (May at 5.8v balanced) to 50%, so I'm getting less than 3V from it, you should be getting 4v. On high gain I still get almost deafening volume at 12 oclock and 2 oclock 0 gain. Also with well recorded bass heavy tracks I get decent sub action without any EQ.

What do you use as source? I asked that a few times and got no answer, but do you get 0db out from your digital? Are you sure your DAC is working as expected? Are you sure your Susvara is not faulty? It looks to me like something is fundamentally wrong in your setup. Did you buy Susvara new btw?


----------



## LarsMan

krude said:


> I should really ignore it at this point bc you clearly ignore half of the advice you're given and you haven't even replied to a pm, but one last shot.
> 
> I turned down output from my DAC (May at 5.8v balanced) to 50%, so I'm getting less than 3V from it, you should be getting 4v. On high gain I still get almost deafening volume at 12 oclock and 2 oclock 0 gain. Also with well recorded bass heavy tracks I get decent sub action without any EQ.
> 
> What do you use as source? I asked that a few times and got no answer, but do you get 0db out from your digital? Are you sure your DAC is working as expected? Are you sure your Susvara is not faulty? It looks to me like something is fundamentally wrong in your setup. Did you buy Susvara new btw?


How do you turn down the balanced output on the Holo May?


----------



## krude (Mar 5, 2022)

LarsMan said:


> How do you turn down the balanced output on the Holo May?


I set digital volume to 50%


----------



## LarsMan

krude said:


> Set set digital volume to 50%


I don't see any kind of volume control on my Holo May DAC. Are you talking about the Hypsos?


----------



## krude

LarsMan said:


> I don't see any kind of volume control on my Holo May DAC. Are you talking about the Hypsos?


I mean digital out from my source aka macbook. May itself indeed does not have volume built in.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

prismstorm said:


> Agreed, it's not delivering world class slam for world class price, even after the chain and power has been improved to match it. I guess it's just the nature of it, and am surprised it gained such a favourable reputation even with this level of bass performance.



That's because, at least for me, not all of my music requires world class slam.   Most of the Classical music I listen to, for example, does not require it.    Vocals do not require it.   Classical and acoustic guitar do not require it.  Then, the other attributes of the Susvara come into play and it is so good that I can easily get lost in the musical bliss and the Susvara is better than any other headphone I''ve heard.   If I am listening to Dirty DIana by Michael Jackson, I want the 1266TC with the WA33.


----------



## LarsMan

krude said:


> I mean digital out from my source aka macbook. May itself indeed does not have volume built in.


Ah HAH!!! Thank you, Krude - I've just started using that MacBook as my source, and I was not very familiar with it. Really appreciate your suggestions!


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## Jonathan Crouch (Mar 5, 2022)

prismstorm said:


> So do you keep it just for certain genres and switch to Audeze / Focal / Abyss when anything with bass is being played? I have found Susvara's tuning is great for instrumental / classical / jazz, but makes almost everything else flat, soft, emotionless, and un-engaging.
> 
> Agreed, it's not delivering world class slam for world class price, even after the chain and power has been improved to match it. I guess it's just the nature of it, and am surprised it gained such a favourable reputation even with this level of bass performance.
> 
> ...



After getting my own Susvara I was under the impression they tuned it not to slam as hard as other headphones or at least it feels like they tried to make the FR as flat as possible. Not that it’s a bad thing personally I prefer it for a lot of things.

I do want to get a 1266 in the distant future but I’m completely satisfied with the performance of the Susvara.

The real question is has anyone here actually used it on the EF1000 the amp that was designed for it? I’ve heard it sounds different, but given the EF1000’s design I wouldn’t know what to expect myself.


----------



## jlbrach

to me the susvara is a fantastic all around listen...to me the bass is excellent and pretty much everything is well staged...there are tons of HP's out there and if "slam" however we define it is your thing there are several HP's I would suggest are better for you


----------



## SalR406

Jonathan Crouch said:


> The real question is has anyone here actually used it on the EF1000 the amp that was designed for it? I’ve heard it sounds different, but given the EF1000’s design I wouldn’t know what to expect myself.


I just heard the Susvara/EF1000 combination at the CanJam NYC show last weekend. That amp is difficult to find in-person for an audition, so I appreciated the rare opportunity. The EF1000 comes in a two-piece chassis, it's physically very large (and deep) for a headphone amp, and it runs hot. So, you need the desk space or rack space to install it, plus the means to meet its very high price.

I thought the sonic performance was truly outstanding. I'm not very adept at using audiophile terminology to accurately describe what I heard. I would say it was definitely in my top-3 setups at the show. It's easy to become completely immersed in the music - crystal clear airy treble, well-controlled bass, and beautiful mids. The Susvara/EF1000 combination at the HIFIMAN table was my first audition after arriving at the show on Saturday morning. I liked it so much, I tried the same combination again at the Bloom Audio table later in the afternoon. Great stuff. I really enjoyed it.


----------



## 801evan

Reviewer getting sub-bass. Speak amp not required. Actually, seeing the responses of speak amp owners, you definitely won't get sub bass with speaker amps.


----------



## krude (Mar 6, 2022)

801evan said:


> Reviewer getting sub-bass. Speak amp not required. Actually, seeing the responses of speak amp owners, you definitely won't get sub bass with speaker amps.



Yeah I did some testing yesterday, bass heavy tracks do get decent sub bass on Susvara + Oor without EQ. It's not TC sub, but then Susvara is not TC, that has been discussed. You get all of the notes, all the way to 20Hz. Did a sine sweep tests 20Khz to 20Hz and it actually all the way to 20Hz.

As for the speaker amp situation, I've eluded to that in one of the posts before. You can get a speaker amp that will not be linear when it deals with higher impedance loads (speaker amps are designed for max 8ohms), so you might be getting a bass lift (effectively same as EQ just done accidentally by the amp iteself) when using it with 60ohms which it is not intended to be used with. It could be a nice and pleasing effect, akin to using tube amps with high output impedance, but is effectively like engaging EQ. A lot of integrates also have on board EQ (tone control) and a loudness button (v shape bass treble lift) button, which will make the sound more "spicy" but again, it's just EQ.

Power wise, assuming it would scale linearily, Oor would have 60W into 8Ohms of class a power (it's not totally pure class a afaik, but close enough, and it sounds and behaves like class a, so it is class a for me), and most totl class a speaker amps incidentally have 50W to 60W of pure class a ... that's only my conclusion, everyone needs to make their own research in the end.

All I know is I can have Susvara clean and reference, or I can add a bass shelf EQ and it shakes, rumbles and hits hard when the tracks asks it to if I want a more "in the club" feel.


----------



## krude (Mar 6, 2022)

SalR406 said:


> I just heard the Susvara/EF1000 combination at the CanJam NYC show last weekend. That amp is difficult to find in-person for an audition, so I appreciated the rare opportunity. The EF1000 comes in a two-piece chassis, it's physically very large (and deep) for a headphone amp, and it runs hot. So, you need the desk space or rack space to install it, plus the means to meet its very high price.
> 
> I thought the sonic performance was truly outstanding. I'm not very adept at using audiophile terminology to accurately describe what I heard. I would say it was definitely in my top-3 setups at the show. It's easy to become completely immersed in the music - crystal clear airy treble, well-controlled bass, and beautiful mids. The Susvara/EF1000 combination at the HIFIMAN table was my first audition after arriving at the show on Saturday morning. I liked it so much, I tried the same combination again at the Bloom Audio table later in the afternoon. Great stuff. I really enjoyed it.


It looks like a total beast, but then again, 15k+ euro tube (hybrid ?) amp, bloody well should sound amazing! : )

Funnily enough, it gives out 50W into 8Ohms of pure class a, so Oor is in the same ballpark power wise. If EF1000 has more bass / bass lift, that would be down to tubes and harmonic distortion or higher impedance out I would think. Would be amazing for someone like @Sajid Amit to run it back to back with his Oor + PL pre combo. Actually comparing to EF1000, this combo is a bit of a bargain, even WA33 is a bit of a bargain. We're talking more than WA33 Elite moeny waise here.


----------



## krude

EF1000 topic got me thinking, it has 60ohm output impedance, which will give a more wet sound with a slight bass lift. Oors hp out is close to 0ohm so it will be as clean and reference as it can ... however ...

Just read the specs and Oors pre balanced out has 44ohm impedance, so could give us an alternative sound potentially ...

I don't have the cabling to test it at the moment, but it would be an interesting experiment 🤔🤨


----------



## prismstorm

krude said:


> I should really ignore it at this point bc you clearly ignore half of the advice you're given and you haven't even replied to a pm, but one last shot.
> 
> I turned down output from my DAC (May at 5.8v balanced) to 50%, so I'm getting less than 3V from it, you should be getting 4v. On high gain I still get almost deafening volume at 12 oclock and 2 oclock 0 gain. Also with well recorded bass heavy tracks I get decent sub action without any EQ.
> 
> What do you use as source? I asked that a few times and got no answer, but do you get 0db out from your digital? Are you sure your DAC is working as expected? Are you sure your Susvara is not faulty? It looks to me like something is fundamentally wrong in your setup. Did you buy Susvara new btw?


I apologize but I should have explained that I do not know how to respond your advice regarding EQ, as I am not a big fan of EQ and would rather use system synergy or swap headphone outright than alter the default tuning of a pair of cans. I am getting 4V through my Bifrost 2's balanced XLR outputs into the OOR. My MacBook Pro's music player's digital volume is at 100% volume, I have not enhanced it in any way. The Bifrost 2 DAC did not show any fault since its arrival, my Susvara was bought new (it was unboxed in front of my eyes for demo for 90 minutes before purchase). Thanks for all the advice but I think at this point it's due to me really disliking the Susvara for my music. PM replied. 


HiFiHawaii808 said:


> That's because, at least for me, not all of my music requires world class slam.   Most of the Classical music I listen to, for example, does not require it.    Vocals do not require it.   Classical and acoustic guitar do not require it.  Then, the other attributes of the Susvara come into play and it is so good that I can easily get lost in the musical bliss and the Susvara is better than any other headphone I''ve heard.   If I am listening to Dirty DIana by Michael Jackson, I want the 1266TC with the WA33.


I understand that certain genres such as pure piano, jazz and orchestral do not really require the bass slam. But the flat tuning of the Susvara and lack of any mid-bass boost actually makes vocals thin and lifeless and hiding in the back. Half hour into any session it gets incredibly boring and emotionally disconnecting. The constant softness and lack of impact really get to me and cause frustration amidst its obviously technical chops in soundstaging and resolving power. 


Jonathan Crouch said:


> After getting my own Susvara I was under the impression they tuned it not to slam as hard as other headphones or at least it feels like they tried to make the FR as flat as possible. Not that it’s a bad thing personally I prefer it for a lot of things.
> 
> I do want to get a 1266 in the distant future but I’m completely satisfied with the performance of the Susvara.
> 
> The real question is has anyone here actually used it on the EF1000 the amp that was designed for it? I’ve heard it sounds different, but given the EF1000’s design I wouldn’t know what to expect myself.


I also took a hard look at the EF 1000, and its rarity meant I did not have chance to try it. But the price is shocking, at first it looks like a tremendously powerful amp but when you do the conversion at 60 Ohms it is more or less delivering the same kind of voltage as OOR in XLR output. Maybe the synergy is optimal since it was developed specifically for it by the same manufacturer. At that price point I would rather get something extravagant like WA33EE than just a single amp catered for one single product. Hmm ....


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

krude said:


> EF1000 topic got me thinking, it has 60ohm output impedance, which will give a more wet sound with a slight bass lift. Oors hp out is close to 0ohm so it will be as clean and reference as it can ... however ...
> 
> Just read the specs and Oors pre balanced out has 44ohm impedance, so could give us an alternative sound potentially ...
> 
> I don't have the cabling to test it at the moment, but it would be an interesting experiment 🤔🤨





prismstorm said:


> I apologize but I should have explained that I do not know how to respond your advice regarding EQ, as I am not a big fan of EQ and would rather use system synergy or swap headphone outright than alter the default tuning of a pair of cans. I am getting 4V through my Bifrost 2's balanced XLR outputs into the OOR. My MacBook Pro's music player's digital volume is at 100% volume, I have not enhanced it in any way. The Bifrost 2 DAC did not show any fault since its arrival, my Susvara was bought new (it was unboxed in front of my eyes for demo for 90 minutes before purchase). Thanks for all the advice but I think at this point it's due to me really disliking the Susvara for my music. PM replied.
> 
> I understand that certain genres such as pure piano, jazz and orchestral do not really require the bass slam. But the flat tuning of the Susvara and lack of any mid-bass boost actually makes vocals thin and lifeless and hiding in the back. Half hour into any session it gets incredibly boring and emotionally disconnecting. The constant softness and lack of impact really get to me and cause frustration amidst its obviously technical chops in soundstaging and resolving power.
> 
> I also took a hard look at the EF 1000, and its rarity meant I did not have chance to try it. But the price is shocking, at first it looks like a tremendously powerful amp but when you do the conversion at 60 Ohms it is more or less delivering the same kind of voltage as OOR in XLR output. Maybe the synergy is optimal since it was developed specifically for it by the same manufacturer. At that price point I would rather get something extravagant like WA33EE than just a single amp catered for one single product. Hmm ....


Well Prism based on everything I’ve seen you seem more like someone who would like the AB 1266.

You can literally feel the slam extend down into your chest. Edit: Assuming you have the proper gear and cables*

I tease about a quote in a fight in a specific game “Follow your Susvara or AB 1266 my children and never look back.”


----------



## krude

prismstorm said:


> I apologize but I should have explained that I do not know how to respond your advice regarding EQ, as I am not a big fan of EQ and would rather use system synergy or swap headphone outright than alter the default tuning of a pair of cans. I am getting 4V through my Bifrost 2's balanced XLR outputs into the OOR. My MacBook Pro's music player's digital volume is at 100% volume, I have not enhanced it in any way. The Bifrost 2 DAC did not show any fault since its arrival, my Susvara was bought new (it was unboxed in front of my eyes for demo for 90 minutes before purchase). Thanks for all the advice but I think at this point it's due to me really disliking the Susvara for my music. PM replied.
> 
> I understand that certain genres such as pure piano, jazz and orchestral do not really require the bass slam. But the flat tuning of the Susvara and lack of any mid-bass boost actually makes vocals thin and lifeless and hiding in the back. Half hour into any session it gets incredibly boring and emotionally disconnecting. The constant softness and lack of impact really get to me and cause frustration amidst its obviously technical chops in soundstaging and resolving power.
> 
> I also took a hard look at the EF 1000, and its rarity meant I did not have chance to try it. But the price is shocking, at first it looks like a tremendously powerful amp but when you do the conversion at 60 Ohms it is more or less delivering the same kind of voltage as OOR in XLR output. Maybe the synergy is optimal since it was developed specifically for it by the same manufacturer. At that price point I would rather get something extravagant like WA33EE than just a single amp catered for one single product. Hmm ....


No worries, replied to your PM. I'm sure we can get to the bottom of this. Your chain should work A LOT better, just need to diagnose the cause.


----------



## nekky

Yeah, the mids being set back and boring is just not something I can relate to the Susvara in any way. Definitely not bass cannons but ALL of the notes are there and represented very well.


----------



## 801evan

krude said:


> No worries, replied to your PM. I'm sure we can get to the bottom of this. Your chain should work A LOT better, just need to diagnose the cause.


Solution is pretty apparent. Better transport, signal chain and also power quality on top.  He's just running on an Apple laptop and basic cable.


----------



## krude

I've been thinking about the whole Susvara thing, and actually you could argue that Susvara is a very good excersise for anyone who wants to improve their chain. In the process of "fixing" my Susvara experience I've made Utopia sound about 2x good as it ever did before and same with TC. In fact TC now sounds sublime. It is a painful process, but it leads to building a vastly better system in general.


----------



## 801evan

krude said:


> I've been thinking about the whole Susvara thing, and actually you could argue that Susvara is a very good excersise for anyone who wants to improve their chain. In the process of "fixing" my Susvara experience I've made Utopia sound about 2x good as it ever did before and same with TC. In fact TC now sounds sublime. It is a painful process, but it leads to building a vastly better system in general.


That's is correct. I'm the same with susvara and stealth. Their lower distortion makes chain building easier to assess.


----------



## Sajid Amit

krude said:


> I've been thinking about the whole Susvara thing, and actually you could argue that Susvara is a very good excersise for anyone who wants to improve their chain. In the process of "fixing" my Susvara experience I've made Utopia sound about 2x good as it ever did before and same with TC. In fact TC now sounds sublime. It is a painful process, but it leads to building a vastly better system in general.


So true.


----------



## duranxv

Did I make a wrong turn somewhere and end up in a Susvara thread? lol


----------



## DJJEZ

duranxv said:


> Did I make a wrong turn somewhere and end up in a Susvara thread? lol


This amp is pretty much aimed at susvara


----------



## 801evan

Yet not enough bass??  Hmm


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

prismstorm said:


> I apologize but I should have explained that I do not know how to respond your advice regarding EQ, as I am not a big fan of EQ and would rather use system synergy or swap headphone outright than alter the default tuning of a pair of cans. I am getting 4V through my Bifrost 2's balanced XLR outputs into the OOR. My MacBook Pro's music player's digital volume is at 100% volume, I have not enhanced it in any way. The Bifrost 2 DAC did not show any fault since its arrival, my Susvara was bought new (it was unboxed in front of my eyes for demo for 90 minutes before purchase). Thanks for all the advice but I think at this point it's due to me really disliking the Susvara for my music. PM replied.
> 
> I understand that certain genres such as pure piano, jazz and orchestral do not really require the bass slam. But the flat tuning of the Susvara and lack of any mid-bass boost actually makes vocals thin and lifeless and hiding in the back. Half hour into any session it gets incredibly boring and emotionally disconnecting. The constant softness and lack of impact really get to me and cause frustration amidst its obviously technical chops in soundstaging and resolving power.
> 
> I also took a hard look at the EF 1000, and its rarity meant I did not have chance to try it. But the price is shocking, at first it looks like a tremendously powerful amp but when you do the conversion at 60 Ohms it is more or less delivering the same kind of voltage as OOR in XLR output. Maybe the synergy is optimal since it was developed specifically for it by the same manufacturer. At that price point I would rather get something extravagant like WA33EE than just a single amp catered for one single product. Hmm ....


You may also want to look at different DACs. I use a D90SE in 5v output myself and personally I feel like my Susvara has a fairly strong punch on my current A90. I should have the Oor/Hypsos combo in 2 days to test it myself on those units too.


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

Has anyone heard the HD 800 on the Oor?


----------



## teknorob23

Jonathan Crouch said:


> Has anyone heard the HD 800 on the Oor?



I’ve used it with 800s. Stage gets even wider and bass impact and weight is best I’ve heard on an SS amp. The oor can out resolve the 800s’ capabaliity, so no worries there and plenty of juice to drive them easily. All my listening was done with the oor and Hypsos so I can’t comment on how they paired with just the amp


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

teknorob23 said:


> I’ve used it with 800s. Stage gets even wider and bass impact and weight is best I’ve heard on an SS amp. The oor can out resolve the 800s’ capabaliity, so no worries there and plenty of juice to drive them easily. All my listening was done with the oor and Hypsos so I can’t comment on how they paired with just the amp


Thankfully I have both coming. I want to know if it tames the original vanilla HD 800’s treble. If it does then this is acreal treat of a amo combo


----------



## krude

Jonathan Crouch said:


> Thankfully I have both coming. I want to know if it tames the original vanilla HD 800’s treble. If it does then this is acreal treat of a amo combo


Search this thread for some detailed impressions. It does tame the treble and has very natural timbre with the original HD800 👌


----------



## chargedcapacitor

Jonathan Crouch said:


> Thankfully I have both coming. I want to know if it tames the original vanilla HD 800’s treble. If it does then this is acreal treat of a amo combo


If you are referring to the 6k hump, then no. No neutral amp will get rid of that, it's a feature of the headphone. The only way to "tame" it is to mod the headphone, or use EQ.


----------



## 801evan

800/800s is tuned headphone. It needs 40ohms output impedance.


----------



## Sajid Amit

teknorob23 said:


> I’ve used it with 800s. Stage gets even wider and bass impact and weight is best I’ve heard on an SS amp. The oor can out resolve the 800s’ capabaliity, so no worries there and plenty of juice to drive them easily. All my listening was done with the oor and Hypsos so I can’t comment on how they paired with just the amp


I second this.


----------



## SigFrued

GoldenOne said:


> I currently have 3 OORs here (I was the one that found the issues originally and they sent me new revisions with fixes as they were discovered).
> A friend of mine who had ordered his OOR at canjam Socal recently received his. It's an earlier serial number than any of the three I have here, but it has all the fixes.
> 
> This implies that Ferrum did actually recall units and apply the necessary fixes. So whilst I can't say for certain (I'm just some guy, don't take this as fact ), it does seem that any retail units received will have no issues.
> ...


Dear GoldenOne,

Your YouTube channel is well and professionally done. I greatly appreciate your reviews and explanations. I got the Serum Oor with the Hypsos. How do I know I didn't get one with "issues"? I bought it from a reputable website store. BTW, any idea where I can buy the *Singxer SDA-6 Pro Dac*?


----------



## skyhighct

My pair of OOR & Hypsos arrived today. Can't wait to plug in the Susvaras. 
Are there recommended Hypsos voltage tweks/setting that are best with the Suvaras? 
Is there a "burn-in" period recommended?
Cheers - J


----------



## krude (Mar 11, 2022)

skyhighct said:


> My pair of OOR & Hypsos arrived today. Can't wait to plug in the Susvaras.
> Are there recommended Hypsos voltage tweks/setting that are best with the Suvaras?
> Is there a "burn-in" period recommended?
> Cheers - J


I would start with nominal 24v, depending on the amping you had before you will most likely need a few weeks of "brain" burn in to really get what it's doing. Let us know how you find it  open it up on 0db gain for cleanest SQ


----------



## skyhighct

krude said:


> I would start with nominal 24v, depending on the amping you had before you will most likely need a few weeks of "brain" burn in to really get what it's doing. Let us know how you find it  open it up on 0db gain for cleanest SQ


I was using WA22 for LCD-4 & HE1000SE. Interested to hear to difference between SS vs Tubes, & with proper power to the (newly acquired) Susvaras.


----------



## Halimj7

teknorob23 said:


> I’ve used it with 800s. Stage gets even wider and bass impact and weight is best I’ve heard on an SS amp. The oor can out resolve the 800s’ capabaliity, so no worries there and plenty of juice to drive them easily. All my listening was done with the oor and Hypsos so I can’t comment on how they paired with just the amp


What DAC are you using?


----------



## Halimj7

Can anyone compare OOR with Erco especially for Utopia?


----------



## teknorob23

Halimj7 said:


> What DAC are you using?



Switching between musetec mh-da005 and holo may kte


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

When people come into this thread. Lol


----------



## krude

Jonathan Crouch said:


> When people come into this thread. Lol


🤣🤠


----------



## Sajid Amit (Mar 12, 2022)

teknorob23 said:


> Switching between musetec mh-da005 and holo may kte


I know we discussed DACs before but would you say that the musetec is a good complement to the May? @teknorob23 In my mind, a good complement to the May would be more forward sounding since the May can be a bit laidback.

Sorry, don’t mean to derail the thread at all but just a tiny detour. 🙏🏻


----------



## duranxv

Sajid Amit said:


> I know we discussed DACs before but would you say that the musetec is a good complement to the May? @teknorob23 In my mind, a good complement to the May would be more forward sounding since the May can be a bit laidback.
> 
> Sorry, don’t mean to derail the thread at all but just a tiny detour. 🙏🏻



That's fine, we're already in Susvara-ville, lol.  What's another detour?


----------



## Jonathan Crouch (Mar 12, 2022)

prismstorm said:


> I apologize but I should have explained that I do not know how to respond your advice regarding EQ, as I am not a big fan of EQ and would rather use system synergy or swap headphone outright than alter the default tuning of a pair of cans. I am getting 4V through my Bifrost 2's balanced XLR outputs into the OOR. My MacBook Pro's music player's digital volume is at 100% volume, I have not enhanced it in any way. The Bifrost 2 DAC did not show any fault since its arrival, my Susvara was bought new (it was unboxed in front of my eyes for demo for 90 minutes before purchase). Thanks for all the advice but I think at this point it's due to me really disliking the Susvara for my music. PM replied.
> 
> I understand that certain genres such as pure piano, jazz and orchestral do not really require the bass slam. But the flat tuning of the Susvara and lack of any mid-bass boost actually makes vocals thin and lifeless and hiding in the back. Half hour into any session it gets incredibly boring and emotionally disconnecting. The constant softness and lack of impact really get to me and cause frustration amidst its obviously technical chops in soundstaging and resolving power.
> 
> I also took a hard look at the EF 1000, and its rarity meant I did not have chance to try it. But the price is shocking, at first it looks like a tremendously powerful amp but when you do the conversion at 60 Ohms it is more or less delivering the same kind of voltage as OOR in XLR output. Maybe the synergy is optimal since it was developed specifically for it by the same manufacturer. At that price point I would rather get something extravagant like WA33EE than just a single amp catered for one single product. Hmm ....


So now that I have my Hypsos and Oor I can indeed say that the bass has less punch than my A90. What's weird is everything else besides the bass seems like it punches harder though.

Which is really weird. It obviously hasn't had a chance to break in yet but still these are my current observations (I've only been using it about 30 minutes so far across a wide range of music.)

Edit: I do want to say even though the punch isn't as hard it's more clear. The Oor/Hypsos sounds more defined and refined.  Probably the most detailed stack I've owned and tested yet.

I'm on a D90SE (In 5v mode) myself on Silver Dragon Interconnects and a Silver Dragon Susvara cable.

Edit 2: I wonder if I use the A90 as a Pre... hmm tests for later. I have a few things I need to go out and do before I do all this Frankenstein testing.


----------



## Tubewin

Well... I purchased a second Hypsos. I have 4 power supplies in my system now. Crazy hobby.


----------



## DJJEZ

hoping to get one of these soon to compare against AHB2 with susvara


----------



## duranxv

Any benefit to setting the OOR into power amp mode?  Any difference in sound?


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

So far I'm not sure I 100% like the Oor's signature but we'll see I'll give it more time to break in.


----------



## DJJEZ

Jonathan Crouch said:


> So far I'm not sure I 100% like the Oor's signature but we'll see I'll give it more time to break in.


What don't you like?


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

DJJEZ said:


> What don't you like?


I’ve been trying to piece that together and it might just be the quality of the soundtracks. Vocals in some of my tracks have been recessed. I figured it might be the source so iI tried some lossless of the same pieces and it got better.

So it could very well be the pieces I was listening to. Given just how well this setup reveals crappy file types and mastering.

One other thing someone else mentioned that I also noticed. I took my Hypsos/Oor off of my conditioner and it feels like it hits harder in the dynamics and bass. It obviously wasn’t by much though.


----------



## teknorob23

Sajid Amit said:


> I know we discussed DACs before but would you say that the musetec is a good complement to the May? @teknorob23 In my mind, a good complement to the May would be more forward sounding since the May can be a bit laidback.
> 
> Sorry, don’t mean to derail the thread at all but just a tiny detour. 🙏🏻



I’m not sure. Initially when I’d only listened to the May briefly, I would have said yes and agreed it can be laid back, but having spent a decent amount of time with it in both my hp and 2 channel set ups im struggling to find a weakness in the May. The musetec is ever so slightly more forward but it’s stage sounds compressed by comparison and while it’s very detailed, it’s harder to pick out the nuances in the way it’s easy with the May.  I listen to mainly electronica like biosphere, Four Tet, autechre, etc and I’m devout fan of the Utopias which are obvs know slouch. 

Just to take us a little further off the ferrum slopes, I’ve been listening to the May via the holo serene preamp. It has plenty enough juice for utopias out of the second pair of xlr outputs and wow, overall clarity is lifts considerably, but despite being neutral compared to the ferrum there’s more weight and attack is quicker too. In 2 channel it’s equally amazing. I have listened to quite few very high end preamps and this is right up there and in tandem with the May it’s outstanding and at a fraction of the price. Seriously accomplished and I’m not sure how holo can do this for the price.  I doubt there’s enough there for the susvaras, but I know the pure headamp  version called the Bliss, is due sometime this year which will sort this and has to be one of the most exciting up coming launches.


----------



## Sajid Amit

teknorob23 said:


> I’m not sure. Initially when I’d only listened to the May briefly, I would have said yes and agreed it can be laid back, but having spent a decent amount of time with it in both my hp and 2 channel set ups im struggling to find a weakness in the May. The musetec is ever so slightly more forward but it’s stage sounds compressed by comparison and while it’s very detailed, it’s harder to pick out the nuances in the way it’s easy with the May.  I listen to mainly electronica like biosphere, Four Tet, autechre, etc and I’m devout fan of the Utopias which are obvs know slouch.
> 
> Just to take us a little further off the ferrum slopes, I’ve been listening to the May via the holo serene preamp. It has plenty enough juice for utopias out of the second pair of xlr outputs and wow, overall clarity is lifts considerably, but despite being neutral compared to the ferrum there’s more weight and attack is quicker too. In 2 channel it’s equally amazing. I have listened to quite few very high end preamps and this is right up there and in tandem with the May it’s outstanding and at a fraction of the price. Seriously accomplished and I’m not sure how holo can do this for the price.  I doubt there’s enough there for the susvaras, but I know the pure headamp  version called the Bliss, is due sometime this year which will sort this and has to be one of the most exciting up coming launches.


Holo products are indeed shockingly good for the price once people have spent enough time with them.


----------



## hop ham

On my second day with the Erco/Hypsos stack. Still figuring it out but I like what I hear so far. I got this for standalone use on my desk for headphones and IEMs (4.4mm jack is appreciated for IEMs) but for fun might feed it with other DACs after I get itchy. I’ve heard OOR at Canjam NYC but haven’t spent time with it at home.  

First words that came to mind after listening: refined, clean, smooth with some guts down low. Enjoyable at louder volumes. I can sense what sound they were focusing on and I think many people will find this easy to like (call it musical or whatever vague term with good control). 

Black background even with IEMs. Good control on volume and no issues with channel imbalance. Enough power for all full sized headphones so far but haven’t busted out my OG HE-6. Happy with what it’s doing with LDC-5 but need more time with that combo. Spending more time with Utopia since I’m digging that the most. Bold, big sound without that edge of harshness I sometimes get with other combos.  

I like how the midrange is handled. It seems full but not heavy/overly weighty but loses a bit of micro details in texture. Comparing to DX240 amp8.2 using Elysian Annihilator the mids seems smoother and more natural/full, taking away some of the sparkly airiness/thinness in the upper midrange/treble (which presents the space and vocal placement in an addictive way). So this could be a good thing or bad thing. 

Compared to MS/Dave (mostly direct, but did quickly plug into Phonitor X, GSKmk2, and Cayin C9), the biggest thing I lose with Erco is the extreme holography/dimensionality, separation, and resolution. On MS/Dave I get sucked into the music mostly through these aspects, which adds to the timing and realism. I have to check again but on busier complex music Erco has a harder time controlling things to keep up with Dave. I have the OG Hugo and I would say it’s behind that also in this regard, but on par/better than iFi Pro iDSD. 

Listening to Erco I go into a different listening zone, similar to the Shanling M30. First, I crank the volume up more since I can on the Erco without it getting too hot or fatiguing. It’s more relaxed and smooth with doing a good job with details. It’s fun, involving, and good enough technically with good power and control for headphones and easy to use for IEMs. 

This is good stuff. Still early days so my thoughts might change.


----------



## hypnos1 (Mar 14, 2022)

A good 200+ hrs on my Hypsos/OOR fed by Antipodes DX server and Chord TT2/mscaler and I'm shocked at just how much superior is performance compared to TT2's direct hp out...in every area you care to name. I shan't go into fine detail re said performance...enough has been covered already elsewhere - and comprehensively IMHO over at 6 Moons.

In short, although addicted to tubes for some years now, I finally feel that SS has come of age with these offerings from Poland such as to banish any thoughts of returning to the glass wonders that I now increasingly suspect cannot/will not match this delivery in so many respects...particularly re. purity of reproduction; total absence of 'noise'/distortion/seductive (but illusory) 'coloration'; speed; rhythmic mastery etc. etc.

Needless to say, I'm sure any perceived 'failings' will most likely be down to system matching/quality therein, and even to simple _*settings.*_..for example, I personally found significant differences between setting Hypsos at 28V instead of 24V...my own setup (and ears!) much preferring the higher o/p. Overall performance also benefited from using OOR's _high_ gain with TT2's 'amp' out setting at the normal for my Empyreans, as opposed to (OOR's) 0. HOWEVER, when I changed my SE hp connector to an XLR, OOR's _mid _gain setting gave a much superior sound. Using the 4 pin FPL DC power link also changes things for the better.

I would also submit that one doesn't need to spend $6000 or so on Susvaras to enjoy supreme sound...with an upgraded cable, these more(?!) affordable Empyreans are now delivering a sound beyond my wildest expectations. I would say however, that they need something like mono crystal OCC silver wire (eg Neotech's UP-OCC) to really shine...(I combine with Neotech's OCC copper - both solid, in my own DIY cable). And no doubt use of this amazing wire throughout the system - in a dual configuration for all signal _and_ AC/DC cables also helps things along. OK...commercially very costly, but worth honing one's DIY skills or begging a good friend/acquaintance to do the honours lol! 

And so, with attention to details as aforementioned, I'm quite sure this Ferrum combo is a match for equipment that hits the wallet with a much greater thud...with each new track I've used for tube assessment over the years I become more in awe of this gear's potential.


----------



## GoldenOne

SigFrued said:


> Dear GoldenOne,
> 
> Your YouTube channel is well and professionally done. I greatly appreciate your reviews and explanations. I got the Serum Oor with the Hypsos. How do I know I didn't get one with "issues"? I bought it from a reputable website store. BTW, any idea where I can buy the *Singxer SDA-6 Pro Dac*?


Any that have been delivered to customers afaik have had the fixes applied.


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

hypnos1 said:


> A good 200+ hrs on my Hypsos/OOR fed by Antipodes DX server and Chord TT2/mscaler and I'm shocked at just how much superior is performance compared to TT2's direct hp out...in every area you care to name. I shan't go into fine detail re said performance...enough has been covered already elsewhere - and comprehensively IMHO over at 6 Moons.
> 
> In short, although addicted to tubes for some years now, I finally feel that SS has come of age with these offerings from Poland such as to banish any thoughts of returning to the glass wonders that I now increasingly suspect cannot/will not match this delivery in so many respects...particularly re. purity of reproduction; total absence of 'noise'/distortion/seductive (but illusory) 'coloration'; speed; rhythmic mastery etc. etc.
> 
> ...


I personally prefer the Silver cables myself. Silver changes the presentation considerably and I prefer it to both Copper and Silver plated Copper.


----------



## jlbrach

hypnos1 said:


> A good 200+ hrs on my Hypsos/OOR fed by Antipodes DX server and Chord TT2/mscaler and I'm shocked at just how much superior is performance compared to TT2's direct hp out...in every area you care to name. I shan't go into fine detail re said performance...enough has been covered already elsewhere - and comprehensively IMHO over at 6 Moons.
> 
> In short, although addicted to tubes for some years now, I finally feel that SS has come of age with these offerings from Poland such as to banish any thoughts of returning to the glass wonders that I now increasingly suspect cannot/will not match this delivery in so many respects...particularly re. purity of reproduction; total absence of 'noise'/distortion/seductive (but illusory) 'coloration'; speed; rhythmic mastery etc. etc.
> 
> ...


FWIIW nobody spends 6K for a susvara today the street price is much lower and it is in another stratosphere from the empyrean IMHO of course


----------



## Gavin C4 (Mar 14, 2022)

The Hypsos OOR really handles everything really well. It is extremely transparent and scales really well with source gears. The OOR has a very balance signature and handles all music genera really well. It gives the Focal Utopia really high-quality bass while maintaining the correct amount for all tracks.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Gavin C4 said:


> The Hypsos OOR really handles everything really well. It is extremely transparent and scales really well with source gears. The OOR has a very balance signature and handles all music genera really well. It gives the Focal Utopia really high-quality bass while maintaining the correct amount for all tracks.


Agree 100%

That’s an awesome setup.

I would also pair the Utopia with the Ferrum Stack and the Rossini, if I could make myself buy the Rossini.

I have tried this chain recently and it is a slice of heaven.


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

Halimj7 said:


> Can anyone compare OOR with Erco especially for Utopia?



I don’t think they can be compared well. The Oor will sound based on the DAC it’s paired with. The Erco has is a DAC/AMP hybrid. The ceiling is far higher with a Oor, depending on what kind of DAC you like.


----------



## hypnos1

jlbrach said:


> FWIIW nobody spends 6K for a susvara today the street price is much lower and it is in another stratosphere from the empyrean IMHO of course


Not wishing to take this back to a Susvara thread, but the lowest price generally available here in the UK appears to be about £4600, or $6000. Perhaps a 10% discount may be found...?

Must admit I'd love to see (hear!) what all the fuss is about...must try to get a demo one day 

However, for me personally the _comfort _factor is also very important, and I suspect here the Empys would ride supreme lol! Plus, I'm quite sure many folks aren't getting the full potential from their Mezes...system 'synergy' etc., especially DAC and cables (OCC silver being a must IMHO). But I have to admit that I have taken things to the nth degree, such as cable design a la Synergistic Research's Galileo, but with Neotech UP-OCC wire(s); most DIY cable connectors' _pins_ formed from said wires (including USB cable - not easy!), apart from upgraded 13A mains and Neotech IEC plugs; down to (don't laugh) upgraded fuses(!). Then again, this is what I'd have done for Susvara, upping the cost quite a bit!!

Also, my own ears just love the 'smoothness' of the Empys...not to be confused with lack of sparkle, life or excitement. There's dynamics aplenty...in my own system at least lol


----------



## hypnos1 (Mar 15, 2022)

Jonathan Crouch said:


> I personally prefer the Silver cables myself. Silver changes the presentation considerably and I prefer it to both Copper and Silver plated Copper.


Yes indeed...haven't used anything other than silver for years now. But it MUST be_ good _silver, such as Neotech's Teflon coated mono crystal UP-OCC...even soft-annealed 'pure' silver doesn't come close. However, having experimented with various combinations of metals, sometimes the silver benefits from partnering with a little OCC copper - both _solid_ as far as I'm concerned. No stranded for me personally, even though solid makes for much less flexibility of course...and certainly _*no*_ silver-_plated_ stuff lol!! And my uber perfectionist German friend swears by Neotech's AG-GD gold infused silver for his headphones, but nowhere else.

I personally think this cable talk is especially appropriate for the Ferrum gear as it surely maximises OOR's supreme clarity, detail retrieval, tonal range, treble mastery in particular...all of which, coming out of a totally black background contribute to the best 'holographic' soundstage I've ever heard...truly sublime. And bass is no slouch either!...not to mention gorgeous mids, etc etc...


----------



## 801evan

Currently have a full loom 4 core solid occ silver 20awg setup. I have modded the hypsos internal to the same and made silver occ dc cables for it too. It took out the haze, improved the blacks and increased soundstage. Tho, ifi ipower x and elite can still better it and I've upgraded those to silver and the soundstage and blacks are amazing.


----------



## hypnos1

801evan said:


> Currently have a full loom 4 core solid occ silver 20awg setup. I have modded the hypsos internal to the same and made silver occ dc cables for it too. It took out the haze, improved the blacks and increased soundstage. Tho, ifi ipower x and elite can still better it and I've upgraded those to silver and the soundstage and blacks are amazing.


Wow...a real silver junkie lol!  And yes, making one's own DC cables also is surely beneficial...even for the 4 pin FPL cable, despite the standard barrel one looking very well made, with really nice plugs. Had to make my own 4 pin cable as it didn't come with the Hypsos I purchased, but I would have anyway...with the obligatory UP-OCC silver in well shielded dual configuration, and pure soft-annealed silver as pins this time as opposed to the wire itself (to ensure better contact).
But ifi ipower x/elite better than Hypsos?...am I missing something here lol?!!


----------



## 801evan

hypnos1 said:


> Wow...a real silver junkie lol!  And yes, making one's own DC cables also is surely beneficial...even for the 4 pin FPL cable, despite the standard barrel one looking very well made, with really nice plugs. Had to make my own 4 pin cable as it didn't come with the Hypsos I purchased, but I would have anyway...with the obligatory UP-OCC silver in well shielded dual configuration, and pure soft-annealed silver as pins this time as opposed to the wire itself (to ensure better contact).
> But ifi ipower x/elite better than Hypsos?...am I missing something here lol?!!


Yep. Can't complain since Elite and ipower X is much cheaper. Hypsos has its purpose for 24v and higher power output. But 15v,12v is being  powered with ifi elite modded with silver on my end. Elite 24v can power the ORR so that's interesting. Just need to mod out the 2.1 for a 2.5mm dc plug...and take out the ferrite too. 

I only use two of the pins since that sensing thing adds more noise when in use.


----------



## hypnos1 (Mar 15, 2022)

801evan said:


> Yep. Can't complain since Elite and ipower X is much cheaper. Hypsos has its purpose for 24v and higher power output. But 15v,12v is being  powered with ifi elite modded with silver on my end. Elite 24v can power the ORR so that's interesting. Just need to mod out the 2.1 for a 2.5mm dc plug...and take out the ferrite too.
> 
> I only use two of the pins since that sensing thing adds more noise when in use.


Ah, yes...ipower for lower voltages definitely. But for much higher - and OOR?...should prove very interesting indeed.

And even more interesting...I personally found definite improvement from the 4 pin connection compared with the 2.5mm plug - tamed the slight edginess that can sometimes come from certain recordings using 28V out from Hypsos, but which my system/ears prefer over 24V. Looking forward to your findings...


----------



## krude

hypnos1 said:


> Not wishing to take this back to a Susvara thread, but the lowest price generally available here in the UK appears to be about £4600, or $6000. Perhaps a 10% discount may be found...?
> 
> Must admit I'd love to see (hear!) what all the fuss is about...must try to get a demo one day
> 
> ...


Yeah I bought my from a dealer with a discount for about an equivalent of 4500 GBP in Poland a few months back. I lived in the UK for over a decade and it's really hard to find discounts on high end gear, so buying 2nd hand is the only option in most cases. 

Totally agree with good class silver being superior in some cases to copper, especially if you want more clarity, micro dynamics, attack etc. For bright systems copper could actually help curb overly bright presentation (in my case 1266 TC is a good candidate for copper). This is fine tuning, but really imporant fine tuning.

As an ex-Empyrianist, it is an amazing set if you like what it does. It can be anyones TOTL bc there's nothing objectively better that I know of with this signature. Having said that, Susvara, TC or even Utopia from a good stack are more competent technically. Again, that being said, they won't do what Empy does either. Not sure if I'm making any sense 🤣 Empyrean is definitely a set that I would see myself buying again and investing to get 100% out of it as well 👍


----------



## 801evan (Mar 15, 2022)

hypnos1 said:


> Ah, yes...ipower for lower voltages definitely. But for much higher - and OOR?...should prove very interesting indeed.
> 
> And even more interesting...I personally found definite improvement from the 4 pin connection over the 2.5mm plug - tamed the slight edginess that can sometimes come from certain recordings using 28V out from Hypsos, but which my system/ears prefer over 24V. Looking forward to your findings...


So far. Hypsos is better than Burson supercharger, so there's that. Mostly due to the poor conductor on the supercharger. If amperage allows, go for the ipower Elite, like the OOR/ Erco. But Burson will be more compatible with the Hypsos.. except for the GT

Typically going over the recommended voltage adds more emphasis on the upper registers, lower recommended voltage slows down the timing and adds more midbass. The right voltage just aligns the timing the just right. So you know when you know via timing.

Really? Is this the Oyaide 2.5mm plug as well? I don't doubt the Weipu plug will be better than that for a Weipu to Weipu connection. I wonder if the sensing tech takes advantage of something.

Edit: the issue of the ipower x is it does leak interference back to the mains. I used to have a line conditioner dedicated for it but at that rate, an Elite is cheaper.


----------



## hypnos1

krude said:


> Yeah I bought my from a dealer with a discount for about an equivalent of 4500 GBP in Poland a few months back. I lived in the UK for over a decade and it's really hard to find discounts on high end gear, so buying 2nd hand is the only option in most cases.
> 
> Totally agree with good class silver being superior in some cases to copper, especially if you want more clarity, micro dynamics, attack etc. For bright systems copper could actually help curb overly bright presentation (in my case 1266 TC is a good candidate for copper). This is fine tuning, but really imporant fine tuning.
> 
> As an ex-Empyrianist, it is an amazing set if you like what it does. It can be anyones TOTL bc there's nothing objectively better that I know of with this signature. Having said that, Susvara, TC or even Utopia from a good stack are more competent technically. Again, that being said, they won't do what Empy does either. Not sure if I'm making any sense 🤣 Empyrean is definitely a set that I would see myself buying again and investing to get 100% out of it as well 👍


Yes indeed krude...as I mentioned, I'm sure many who decry the Empyreans aren't doing them true justice whatsoever. And yes again, I doubt any cans can match or better their 'smoothness' of delivery. So it's very much horses for courses...as always! And mustn't forget the comfort factor lol


----------



## OneEyedHito

hypnos1 said:


> Yes indeed krude...as I mentioned, I'm sure many who decry the Empyreans aren't doing them true justice whatsoever. And yes again, I doubt any cans can match or better their 'smoothness' of delivery. So it's very much horses for courses...as always! And mustn't forget the comfort factor lol


I find the Susvara to have it all over empyreans from a comfort level. Empty’s get hot, have too much clamp force, and ride low on my jaw line for my liking. The Susvara are the most comfortable of the two for my head for certain. Initial
Comfort on the empyrean felt great but those niggles shown their heads after sometime and especially in comparison.


----------



## hypnos1 (Mar 15, 2022)

801evan said:


> So far. Hypsos is better than Burson supercharger, so there's that. Mostly due to the poor conductor on the supercharger. If amperage allows, go for the ipower Elite, like the OOR/ Erco. But Burson will be more compatible with the Hypsos.. except for the GT
> 
> *Typically going over the recommended voltage adds more emphasis on the upper registers, lower recommended voltage slows down the timing and adds more midbass. *The right voltage just aligns the timing the just right. So you know when you know via timing.
> 
> ...


Yes indeed...which is why I went for 28V and not 30V. With the Chord combo, 24V has far too much bass washing over everything for my taste, spoiling the more refined, delicate presentation that I've come to love from TT2/mscaler...not to mention the superb Antipodes DX server/player!

ps. Yes again...even better than over the superb Oyaide plug! But don't know just how much better Ferrum's own stock 4 pin cable will perform lol...


----------



## hypnos1

OneEyedHito said:


> I find the Susvara to have it all over empyreans from a comfort level. Empty’s get hot, have too much clamp force, and ride low on my jaw line for my liking. The Susvara are the most comfortable of the two for my head for certain. Initial
> Comfort on the empyrean felt great but those niggles shown their heads after sometime and especially in comparison.


Different heads to be sure lol! ...and all the more reason for me to get a demo some time!!


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

hypnos1 said:


> Yes indeed...haven't used anything other than silver for years now. But it MUST be_ good _silver, such as Neotech's Teflon coated mono crystal UP-OCC...even soft-annealed 'pure' silver doesn't come close. However, having experimented with various combinations of metals, sometimes the silver benefits from partnering with a little OCC copper - both _solid_ as far as I'm concerned. No stranded for me personally, even though solid makes for much less flexibility of course...and certainly _*no*_ silver-_plated_ stuff lol!! And my uber perfectionist German friend swears by Neotech's AG-GD gold infused silver for his headphones, but nowhere else.
> 
> I personally think this cable talk is especially appropriate for the Ferrum gear as it surely maximises OOR's supreme clarity, detail retrieval, tonal range, treble mastery in particular...all of which, coming out of a totally black background contribute to the best 'holographic' soundstage I've ever heard...truly sublime. And bass is no slouch either!...not to mention gorgeous mids, etc etc...


I use the Silver Dragon interconnects and a Silver Dragon headphone cable for the Susvara.


----------



## LarsMan

hypnos1 said:


> Different heads to be sure lol! ...and all the more reason for me to get a demo some time!!


I had Empyreans for awhile, and it took me awhile to get used to their fit, but once I did, they were wonderful and best feeling headphones I've ever worn. I also find the Susvaras to be extremely comfortable. I wish I could get headphones with the build quality of the Empyreans and the sound of the Susvaras, which sound like $6K headphones but to me, the build quality, not so much - they feel cheap and tinny to me - but some folks like their build and some other folks don't, but that's another issue.


----------



## Arkitecc

I recently had to start selling off my higher end headphones, so I went back to my ol' reliable HD 650 and they sound really good off of the Ferrum stack + a Benchmark DAC3b, definitely recommended hahaha.


----------



## Tubewin

801evan said:


> So far. Hypsos is better than Burson supercharger, so there's that. Mostly due to the poor conductor on the supercharger. If amperage allows, go for the ipower Elite, like the OOR/ Erco. But Burson will be more compatible with the Hypsos.. except for the GT
> 
> Typically going over the recommended voltage adds more emphasis on the upper registers, lower recommended voltage slows down the timing and adds more midbass. The right voltage just aligns the timing the just right. So you know when you know via timing.
> 
> ...


The GT pairs well with the Hypsos, it's how I have mine setup.


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## Jonathan Crouch (Mar 15, 2022)

Arkitecc said:


> I recently had to start selling off my higher end headphones, so I went back to my ol' reliable HD 650 and they sound really good off of the Ferrum stack + a Benchmark DAC3b, definitely recommended hahaha.


I’ll stick with my planars. The 600 series still has that “veil” sound even on my gear. I still prefer most of my other headphones to these.

Edit: If any I would probably buy a 660S seeing I did love the HD 700.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Arkitecc said:


> I recently had to start selling off my higher end headphones, so I went back to my ol' reliable HD 650 and they sound really good off of the Ferrum stack + a Benchmark DAC3b, definitely recommended hahaha.


I have tried this and can second this.


----------



## prismstorm

Jonathan Crouch said:


> Well Prism based on everything I’ve seen you seem more like someone who would like the AB 1266.
> 
> You can literally feel the slam extend down into your chest. Edit: Assuming you have the proper gear and cables*
> 
> I tease about a quote in a fight in a specific game “Follow your Susvara or AB 1266 my children and never look back.”


I am planning to keep Susvara for lighter tracks like jazz and classical, then acquiring something with more slam thereafter 


krude said:


> I've been thinking about the whole Susvara thing, and actually you could argue that Susvara is a very good excersise for anyone who wants to improve their chain. In the process of "fixing" my Susvara experience I've made Utopia sound about 2x good as it ever did before and same with TC. In fact TC now sounds sublime. It is a painful process, but it leads to building a vastly better system in general.


Very much agreed. A very troublesome process that saw me upgrade my amp and cable and interconnects and even consider dabbling in EQ to fix it. 


Jonathan Crouch said:


> You may also want to look at different DACs. I use a D90SE in 5v output myself and personally I feel like my Susvara has a fairly strong punch on my current A90. I should have the Oor/Hypsos combo in 2 days to test it myself on those units too.


Will explore Yggdrasil LIM and Holo May KTE at a later time.


----------



## 801evan

hypnos1 said:


> Ah, yes...ipower for lower voltages definitely. But for much higher - and OOR?...should prove very interesting indeed.
> 
> And even more interesting...I personally found definite improvement from the 4 pin connection compared with the 2.5mm plug - tamed the slight edginess that can sometimes come from certain recordings using 28V out from Hypsos, but which my system/ears prefer over 24V. Looking forward to your findings...


One thing I noticed and took awhile to isolate was that the Hypsos takes like 15 mins to stabilize when running digital devices. I was definitely powering my CDT one time but I may have been powering my modded Diablo as well and noticed the issue. But I was in a situation where I can't have uninterrupted playback for 15 mins for the blacks to get really good. Just  restarting or changing track is enough to ruin the blacks and the timing. I thought my chain was hitting a new level of transparency and it is what it is if that means 15 mins for things to settle down. When I got my dual ifi elite mod, I actually forgotten about the quirk until weeks later. I can only pin it down on the Hypsos. So basically the Hypsos on my setup's level of transparency doesn't handle varying current draw to a point where I'm losing max potential on the blacks.


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

I will say after these few days of use I’m highly impressed at just how much the Oor and Hypsos have command/control over the drivers which is saying a lot for being used on a Susvara.

Also, it’s a pretty amazing amp when it’s paired with the Hypsos. It will likely remain my endgame as I doubt a EF1000 will ever be on table just because of price.


----------



## LarsMan

After much delay, I just finished my own personal shootout between the Oor stack and the Enleum 23R for Susvaras, now that I've given the Enleum well over 100 hours of break-in time.... Honestly, the Enleum didn't sound discernably different to me than when it had just been broken in for about 50 hours. It's a fine sounding amp, and for some kinds of music it might be preferable, but for me personally with the kind of music I listen to in my system chain, the Oor stack has it all over the Enleum for my Susvaras (haven't comparatively tested my other 2 headphones yet); no value judgements here, the Enleum might be considered a bit smoother sounding, and it has a warm-ish, pleasing sound that I did not find hyper-detailed; might go good with jazz, vocals, etc - in fact, I slightly preferred vocals on the Enleum; you can certainly listen to it for long periods of time. 

The Enleum glides but the Oor stack *rocks,* it was more visceral for me and it gave me _some_ sub-bass on the Susvaras on some reggae tracks that the Enleum did not. But somebody else might think just the opposite - it's all good! - so give a listen yourself if you get a chance - both are enjoyable.

The Oor stack let me hear all the layers that were in the mixes with the kind of clarity and detail and staging and dynamics and *texture *that I like in my favored genres, rock and reggae, better than the Enleum did for me. I do want to try the Enleum in my 2-channel system just to see how it sounds, but it's likely I'll put it up for sale before long so it can find a more appropriate home. Now I need to do a compare between the Oor stack and the Auris Nirvana with Susvara.


----------



## 801evan

Usually 'texture' doesn't exist in music or in a good setup. It's actually micro distortion mistakenly seen as detail and texture. Enleum may be the better one here.


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## krude (Mar 16, 2022)

801evan said:


> Usually 'texture' doesn't exist in music or in a good setup. It's actually micro distortion mistakenly seen as detail and texture. Enleum may be the better one here.


Texture is micro dynamics, say when you have a bow on a string like in Agnes Obel Aventine, you can hear the micro detail of the bow gliding on the string, commonly referred to as instruments texture. If your system is not fast / sensitive enough it will play it back as a blurb of sound resembling a bow on the string. That is one of the striking things about high end audio, when you get all of this texture information for the first time and go "whoaa I never haerd this record quite like this before". Actually you can't have distortion in the system to get good textures, you can only get them with a crisp and clean steup.


----------



## 801evan

krude said:


> Texture is micro dynamics, say when you have a bow on a string like in Agnes Obel Aventine, you can hear the micro detail of the bow gliding on the string, commonly referred to as instruments texture. If your system is not fast / sensitive enough it will play it back as a blurb of sound resembling a bow on the string. That is one of the striking things about high end audio is when you get all of this texture information for the first time and go "whoaa I never haerd this record quite like this". Actually you can't have distortion in the system to get good textures, you can only get them with a crisp and clean steup.


If the emphasis comes off where the brain sees it as texture, then it's really distortion. The reverberation of strings should be perceived as, guess what, reverberation. Not 'texture'. While upgrading people will be fooled they are hearing the reverberation of strings because they hear the 'texture'.


----------



## Aetherhole

I know this is the Ferrum Oor thread, but I am genuinely curious about the Erco + Hypsos.  I am wanting to drive the Susvara and currently have a Burson Conductor 3XR, which I fear might be a little bit limiting.  Does anyone have experience with the Erco versus the C3XP and maybe specifically with the Susvara?

I am also curious at the difference sonically between the Oor and the Erco...


----------



## krude

LarsMan said:


> After much delay, I just finished my own personal shootout between the Oor stack and the Enleum 23R for Susvaras, now that I've given the Enleum well over 100 hours of break-in time.... Honestly, the Enleum didn't sound discernably different to me than when it had just been broken in for about 50 hours. It's a fine sounding amp, and for some kinds of music it might be preferable, but for me personally with the kind of music I listen to in my system chain, the Oor stack has it all over the Enleum for my Susvaras (haven't comparatively tested my other 2 headphones yet); no value judgements here, the Enleum might be considered a bit smoother sounding, and it has a warm-ish, pleasing sound that I did not find hyper-detailed; might go good with jazz, vocals, etc - in fact, I slightly preferred vocals on the Enleum; you can certainly listen to it for long periods of time.
> 
> The Enleum glides but the Oor stack *rocks,* it was more visceral for me and it gave me _some_ sub-bass on the Susvaras on some reggae tracks that the Enleum did not. But somebody else might think just the opposite - it's all good! - so give a listen yourself if you get a chance - both are enjoyable.
> 
> The Oor stack let me hear all the layers that were in the mixes with the kind of clarity and detail and staging and dynamics and *texture *that I like in my favored genres, rock and reggae, better than the Enleum did for me. I do want to try the Enleum in my 2-channel system just to see how it sounds, but it's likely I'll put it up for sale before long so it can find a more appropriate home. Now I need to do a compare between the Oor stack and the Auris Nirvana with Susvara.


Also there's no denying that you could get 2 great amps for the money (although I rarely discuss money in this hobby) and have 2 great quality sound signatures.


----------



## Sajid Amit

LarsMan said:


> After much delay, I just finished my own personal shootout between the Oor stack and the Enleum 23R for Susvaras, now that I've given the Enleum well over 100 hours of break-in time.... Honestly, the Enleum didn't sound discernably different to me than when it had just been broken in for about 50 hours. It's a fine sounding amp, and for some kinds of music it might be preferable, but for me personally with the kind of music I listen to in my system chain, the Oor stack has it all over the Enleum for my Susvaras (haven't comparatively tested my other 2 headphones yet); no value judgements here, the Enleum might be considered a bit smoother sounding, and it has a warm-ish, pleasing sound that I did not find hyper-detailed; might go good with jazz, vocals, etc - in fact, I slightly preferred vocals on the Enleum; you can certainly listen to it for long periods of time.
> 
> The Enleum glides but the Oor stack *rocks,* it was more visceral for me and it gave me _some_ sub-bass on the Susvaras on some reggae tracks that the Enleum did not. But somebody else might think just the opposite - it's all good! - so give a listen yourself if you get a chance - both are enjoyable.
> 
> The Oor stack let me hear all the layers that were in the mixes with the kind of clarity and detail and staging and dynamics and *texture *that I like in my favored genres, rock and reggae, better than the Enleum did for me. I do want to try the Enleum in my 2-channel system just to see how it sounds, but it's likely I'll put it up for sale before long so it can find a more appropriate home. Now I need to do a compare between the Oor stack and the Auris Nirvana with Susvara.


Nice impressions!


----------



## Arkitecc

Jonathan Crouch said:


> I’ll stick with my planars. The 600 series still has that “veil” sound even on my gear. I still prefer most of my other headphones to these.
> 
> Edit: If any I would probably buy a 660S seeing I did love the HD 700.



I prefer planars myself overall, but for someone who has had to sell their higher end gear at the moment to get some funds back, my point was that going back to the HD 650 was still enjoyable to me. 



Sajid Amit said:


> I have tried this and can second this.



Cool to hear that I'm not the only one who has had a chance try out this combo so far, haha!


----------



## LarsMan

801evan said:


> Usually 'texture' doesn't exist in music or in a good setup. It's actually micro distortion mistakenly seen as detail and texture. Enleum may be the better one here.


How do you happen to know exactly what I mean when I say 'texture'? For me, It's like a photograph with more clarity and detail and contrast, but it's sonic instead of visual, and I am a photographer and know whereof I speak.


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## hypnos1 (Mar 16, 2022)

Guys. "Texture" must surely be one of the most nebulous terms used by folks in the realm of _trying_ to describe sound in a way that can bring any kind of _possible_ concensus. Especially as it traditionally relates to _material/solids_ lol! And so there's bound to be a myriad different interpretations put on such a term. Head-fi's attempt, as in their "Describing Sound - a - Glossary", reads : "A perceptible pattern or structure in reproduced sound". I'm sure there are many who would still interpret this in a wide variety of ways!! I’m

And this also applies of course to many of the other terms we use ad hoc in our _attempts_ at describing what enters our ears and brain...usually heavily influenced by their highly subjective nature! But thankfully at least we're spared the even more - EDIT...UNintelligible verbosity rampant in the world of ART lol


----------



## 801evan

LarsMan said:


> How do you happen to know exactly what I mean when I say 'texture'? For me, It's like a photograph with more clarity and detail and contrast, but it's sonic instead of visual, and I am a photographer and know whereof I speak.


Based on your past posts, you have the MacBook as a transport still and you have it set to high gain on the ORR? That usually is a combo of high noise floor (transport) and distortion (via high gain). How does the ORR sound on unity gain compared to the 23R? Granted I don't know what gain setting you use on the 23r but if a smoother 23r is being compared to another amp that is on high gain then the latter will seemingly exhibit more detail and more punch. Add to the fact that I'm having difficulty getting good blacks on the Hypsos and how it has a hard time settling down, I will agree you will find the Ferrum stack sounding better but that's because of the Ferrum's higher noise floor and higher distortion. Your description on the 23r of being smooth,lesser detail and I assume, lesser dynamics shows that it is an amp with lower distortion and it's lower noise floor has the music signal being eaten up by the noise floor of the other components. Also add to the fact many people are saying the susvara doesn't have bass!?!? Susvara has amazing sub bass density and extension and that's on the stock HP cable on my end and it's just on an ifi diablo low gain, Dave (which ppl say is inadequate), Hugo 2 and modded Phonitor One.

Also with the MacBook running on battery, it will have a slower sound. So the 23r WILL sound wanting on detail, while the high distortion on the ORR will seemingly sound more correct. That's my suspect on the one user with the tt2 coz the tt2 has a very thicc midbass and syrupy sound if with the stock smps so a higher voltage may help balance it out. But that's a hunch on that one coz I hope the ORR is ideal on 24v so I can pair it with an ifi elite 24v instead.

Meanwhile, for the likes of chargedcapacitor and speaker amp users, just because they couldn't get bass out of their Susvaras they think no one else can?? 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️


----------



## LarsMan

801evan said:


> Based on your past posts, you have the MacBook as a transport still and you have it set to high gain on the ORR? That usually is a combo of high noise floor (transport) and distortion (via high gain). How does the ORR sound on unity gain compared to the 23R? Granted I don't know what gain setting you use on the 23r but if a smoother 23r is being compared to another amp that is on high gain then the latter will seemingly exhibit more detail and more punch. Add to the fact that I'm having difficulty getting good blacks on the Hypsos and how it has a hard time settling down, I will agree you will find the Ferrum stack sounding better but that's because of the Ferrum's higher noise floor and higher distortion. Your description on the 23r of being smooth,lesser detail and I assume, lesser dynamics shows that it is an amp with lower distortion and it's lower noise floor has the music signal being eaten up by the noise floor of the other components. Also add to the fact many people are saying the susvara doesn't have bass!?!? Susvara has amazing sub bass density and extension and that's on the stock HP cable on my end and it's just on an ifi diablo low gain, Dave (which ppl say is inadequate), Hugo 2 and modded Phonitor One.
> 
> Also with the MacBook running on battery, it will have a slower sound. So the 23r WILL sound wanting on detail, while the high distortion on the ORR will seemingly sound more correct. That's my suspect on the one user with the tt2 coz the tt2 has a very thicc midbass and syrupy sound if with the stock smps so a higher voltage may help balance it out. But that's a hunch on that one coz I hope the ORR is ideal on 24v so I can pair it with an ifi elite 24v instead.
> 
> Meanwhile, for the likes of chargedcapacitor and speaker amp users, just because they couldn't get bass out of their Susvaras they think no one else can?? 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️


Hi there Evan - yes, using the MacBook as transport (not using battery, plugged into my power conditioner), with high-gain on the Oor; I did use the high-gain setting (V2) on the 23R as well. I turn the gain knob as needed or adjust the volume on the DAC - same MSB DAC at same settings into both amps. 

I'm using Black Dragon XLR cables for all my headphones.

I've had Hugo 2 and DAVE and M Scaler, but I sold 'em all - I guess I'm just not a fan of the overall Chord sound. 

I won't argue distortion and all the other failings of my audio chain - I don't care and I just want what sounds best to me. If 'distortion' sounds better to me, that's what I want; I do also use tube amps, after all, the whole point of them being the pleasing 'distortion' they provide. That's also why I never look at measurements unless I need to see whether something will be compatible - otherwise, I'll trust my ears and brain on what sounds best to me over an oscilliscope. I'm obviously no fan of ASR, but I'm glad they're there for people for whom that is important.

I do agree with you about the Susvara delivering sub-bass. It's not an Abyss 1266, but if it's on the source, I hear it and feel it. 

I've got tinnitus, so noise floor is meaningless to me unless it's so bad I can actually hear the noise floor, as happened with one tube amp I'd bought and I had to return it. No other amp I've ever had, tube or SS, has ever had that problem. 'Black background' is obviously a non-issue for me as well.


----------



## 801evan

LarsMan said:


> Hi there Evan - yes, using the MacBook as transport (not using battery, plugged into my power conditioner), with high-gain on the Oor; I did use the high-gain setting (V2) on the 23R as well. I turn the gain knob as needed or adjust the volume on the DAC - same MSB DAC at same settings into both amps.
> 
> I'm using Black Dragon XLR cables for all my headphones.
> 
> ...


Well the point is, more so with ppl with tinnitus, is not caring for a low noise floor will create a chain where high gain is the only route to sound good and other settings that add distortion. The downside is the extra excess energy that resides in the mids and up. Having a lower noise floor will calm down the excess energy by a lot and smoothen the flow of the music in a faithful way. With a high noise floor the only way to get bass out of the Susvara is to have a punchy bass via distortion.


----------



## IanB52

801evan said:


> Based on your past posts, you have the MacBook as a transport still and you have it set to high gain on the ORR? That usually is a combo of high noise floor (transport) and distortion (via high gain). How does the ORR sound on unity gain compared to the 23R? Granted I don't know what gain setting you use on the 23r but if a smoother 23r is being compared to another amp that is on high gain then the latter will seemingly exhibit more detail and more punch. Add to the fact that I'm having difficulty getting good blacks on the Hypsos and how it has a hard time settling down, I will agree you will find the Ferrum stack sounding better but that's because of the Ferrum's higher noise floor and higher distortion. Your description on the 23r of being smooth,lesser detail and I assume, lesser dynamics shows that it is an amp with lower distortion and it's lower noise floor has the music signal being eaten up by the noise floor of the other components. Also add to the fact many people are saying the susvara doesn't have bass!?!? Susvara has amazing sub bass density and extension and that's on the stock HP cable on my end and it's just on an ifi diablo low gain, Dave (which ppl say is inadequate), Hugo 2 and modded Phonitor One.
> 
> Also with the MacBook running on battery, it will have a slower sound. So the 23r WILL sound wanting on detail, while the high distortion on the ORR will seemingly sound more correct. That's my suspect on the one user with the tt2 coz the tt2 has a very thicc midbass and syrupy sound if with the stock smps so a higher voltage may help balance it out. But that's a hunch on that one coz I hope the ORR is ideal on 24v so I can pair it with an ifi elite 24v instead.
> 
> Meanwhile, for the likes of chargedcapacitor and speaker amp users, just because they couldn't get bass out of their Susvaras they think no one else can?? 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️


You are making some incorrect assumptions: Amp 23r has high levels of harmonic distortion (>.25% THD) and a not extremely low noise floor, while the Oor measures very low for both noise and distortion.


----------



## 801evan

IanB52 said:


> You are making some incorrect assumptions: Amp 23r has high levels of harmonic distortion (>.25% THD) and a not extremely low noise floor, while the Oor measures very low for both noise and distortion.


Yet Hypsos is quite underwhelming on the blacks....


----------



## LarsMan

801evan said:


> Well the point is, more so with ppl with tinnitus, is not caring for a low noise floor will create a chain where high gain is the only route to sound good and other settings that add distortion. The downside is the extra excess energy that resides in the mids and up. Having a lower noise floor will calm down the excess energy by a lot and smoothen the flow of the music in a faithful way. With a high noise floor the only way to get bass out of the Susvara is to have a punchy bass via distortion.


Good points, I guess, but it's looking more like I'll be selling both the Oor stack as well as the 23R, now that my curiosity has been satisfied, and going back to my Auris Nirvana tube amp to drive my Susvaras. Tube or not tube....


----------



## hypnos1

801evan said:


> Yet Hypsos is quite underwhelming on the blacks....


Evan...perhaps you should qualify that as _in your system_. In my own, I have the blackest, _totally_ 'noise'-free background one could ever realistically hope for lol  And that goes not just for any _obvious_ noise per se, but the - once again _nebulous_ kind that is attributed to having a negative effect on sound reproduction...more on this subject to follow...


----------



## IanB52

801evan said:


> Yet Hypsos is quite underwhelming on the blacks....


I don't own it, but I've found you can get deep blacks with clean power, cabling, and tuning fuses on most gear.

Some amps also have a very noticeable black background in spite of higher noise because some of the air and treble are rolled off. I find this true with the Enleum and also LTA MZ3.


----------



## hypnos1 (Mar 18, 2022)

In the vein of a previous post I made on the difficult-to-interpret term "texture" in sound, similar problems arise with "noise/floor" and "distortion", which can also be very misleading terms indeed.

When relating to the negative effects upon the reproduction of tones/overtones/harmonics in the FR, this is a veritable minefield as to the _precise_ factors as cause, and their degree within the mix...viz equipment components' (including cables and connectors) levels of inductance/conductance/capacitance/impedance. And when you factor in what resides in one's _mains_ supply and the environment's pervasive EMI/RFI interference, the task of even just _searching_ for it let alone _quantifying _and _reducing_ it is a mammoth one to say the least lol!

In addition, there's often little correlation between (questionable) _instrument measurement_ of values and what we actually _hear_/_perceive_/_interpret_.

Therefore, all this interplay is going to make trying to pin down any 'alteration' in sound to a _specific_ component's 'noise floor' or degree of 'distortion' a very murky undertaking indeed.

I submit that this also applies to statements such as re. voltage/current levels exchanged between components. I personally believe this area is much more complex than may at first appear...for example 801evan's mention of higher voltage increasing distortion did at first seem to explain the occasional slight edginess induced in my TT2/mscaler-fed Hypsos/OOR combo with Hypsos at 28V instead of 24V - this latter 'recommended' level giving a rather flat, lifeless presentation in my system. HOWEVER, replacing the (extremely good) 2.5mm DC connection with my own version of the 4 pin 'FPL' - still at 28V, removed any excess entirely.

And by the same token, using OOR's 'bypass' function, thereby outputting at max volume, one would expect this type of 'distortion' to perhaps result to a certain degree?...but no, the opposite in fact - a bass-washed, poorly balanced, lacklustre sound. One could argue that the necessary lower output from TT2 had a part to play, but this _inter_play also would appear to show IMHO that complex nature of exchange between components I mentioned earlier.

So, my point is that I believe we all need to be extremely careful when making statements on so many of the aspects of sound reproduction to which we love to apply such open-to-discussion, often misleading/misconstruable 'audiophile(?!) terms.

Sorry for any indigestion I may have caused...


----------



## hypnos1

IanB52 said:


> I don't own it, but I've found you can get deep blacks with clean power, cabling, and tuning fuses on most gear.
> 
> *Some amps also have a very noticeable black background in spite of higher noise because some of the air and treble are rolled off. *I find this true with the Enleum and also LTA MZ3.


Hi Ian...not the slightest hint of that in my own Hypsos/OOR combo setup, glad to say...


----------



## SackATK

The Ferrum stack arrived at my door today along with the Cat 8 ethernet cables I had ordered from AliExpress. I decided to cut the workday short to start playing with my new toys.  I spent a few hours installing and fighting with the inflexible Cat 8 cables and rearranging the system to make room for the Ferrum stack.  After I had everythting hooked up, I had a listen on the Ferrum stack and as expected, the music was good but not as good as I remembered. The stack needed breakin.  So I decided to play around with the setup as I breakin and listen to music.  I put the Ferrum Oor in bypass mode and I salvaged some Monoprice Monolith XLRs from my HT system.  I used the XLRs to connect the line output from the Benchmark HPA4 into the Oor.  Then I had a listen...Wow!!!  This was a draw drop moment.  The control of the music, the ease at which the music was playing was very noticeable. The dynamics and clarity and many good things I remembered about my system pre-Ferrum stack were there.  The bass was amazing before but now it has even more authority.  I'm no longer in breakin mode and I'm just simply enjoying the wonderful new sounds I'm hearing.  I'm saying all of this with an hour burned in on the stack.  My orignal plan was to have the HPA4 and Ferrum stack duel it out with one winner coming out, but I think the plan has changed. 

I'm using Sennheiser IE900s.  Zavfino Silver Dart PCs power the Musetec MH-DA005 DAC and HPA4.  Zavfino Majestic MKII PC powers the Hypsos. Zavfino Silver Dart XLR connects DAC to HPA4.  Streamer is Grimm MU1 using Shunyata Omega AES.  All power is sourced from Shunyata Everest power distributor.


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## Gavin C4 (Mar 19, 2022)

After extensive usage of the Ferrum OOR  Hypsos stack, I realize that the amp really need time to warm up. If it has been turned off for extensive period of time, the bass will sound relatively lean and lack lower extension. After warming up for 12 hours, the bass has much more slam and better base over all. Above impression using Focal Utopia.

For those who just recieve the amp out of the box, let the Hypsos and OOR warm up for at least 12 hrs before extensive listening should yield better listening experience.


----------



## carboncopy

LarsMan said:


> After much delay, I just finished my own personal shootout between the Oor stack and the Enleum 23R for Susvaras, now that I've given the Enleum well over 100 hours of break-in time.... Honestly, the Enleum didn't sound discernably different to me than when it had just been broken in for about 50 hours. It's a fine sounding amp, and for some kinds of music it might be preferable, but for me personally with the kind of music I listen to in my system chain, the Oor stack has it all over the Enleum for my Susvaras (haven't comparatively tested my other 2 headphones yet); no value judgements here, the Enleum might be considered a bit smoother sounding, and it has a warm-ish, pleasing sound that I did not find hyper-detailed; might go good with jazz, vocals, etc - in fact, I slightly preferred vocals on the Enleum; you can certainly listen to it for long periods of time.
> 
> The Enleum glides but the Oor stack *rocks,* it was more visceral for me and it gave me _some_ sub-bass on the Susvaras on some reggae tracks that the Enleum did not. But somebody else might think just the opposite - it's all good! - so give a listen yourself if you get a chance - both are enjoyable.
> 
> The Oor stack let me hear all the layers that were in the mixes with the kind of clarity and detail and staging and dynamics and *texture *that I like in my favored genres, rock and reggae, better than the Enleum did for me. I do want to try the Enleum in my 2-channel system just to see how it sounds, but it's likely I'll put it up for sale before long so it can find a more appropriate home. Now I need to do a compare between the Oor stack and the Auris Nirvana with Susvara.


I don't own the Ferrum, but it is a quite good description of the Enleum. It really is a relaxing sound. Not dead sounding, but also not hyperactive, the "glide" analogy is super here. Some may like it, some not. It's no holy grail for sure.


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## Gavin C4

My prefered placement of the Hypsos OOR are side by side, instead of stacking on top of each other for better cooling. The width is about a standard Hifi device. The Hypsos and OOR scales really well for hi end DAC source. It is not a bottle neck at all.


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## DJJEZ

Gavin C4 said:


> My prefered placement of the Hypsos OOR are side by side, instead of stacking on top of each other for better cooling. The width is about a standard Hifi device. The Hypsos and OOR scales really well for hi end DAC source. It is not a bottle neck at all.


Nice rossini. You gonna upgrade to the apex?


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## Gavin C4

DJJEZ said:


> Nice rossini. You gonna upgrade to the apex?


Yes, definitly will upgrade to Apex Rossini. The upgrade will be available at my local dealer by June.


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## IanB52

Gavin C4 said:


> My prefered placement of the Hypsos OOR are side by side, instead of stacking on top of each other for better cooling. The width is about a standard Hifi device. The Hypsos and OOR scales really well for hi end DAC source. It is not a bottle neck at all.


Nice. I also have a fairly high end DAC setup and have not found many HP amps that don't lose one thing or another.


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## IanB52

Question about the Ferrum stack: I've heard a couple reviewers describe the Oor+Hypsos as having _less_ stereo width than the Enleum. This kind of blows my mind as the Amp 23r is among the narrowest HP amps I've used, and definitely the most narrow SS amp. Is it really lacking that much width?

Ideal for me is little or no crosstalk at all, full width, like pro audio gear.


----------



## LarsMan

IanB52 said:


> Question about the Ferrum stack: I've heard a couple reviewers describe the Oor+Hypsos as having _less_ stereo width than the Enleum. This kind of blows my mind as the Amp 23r is among the narrowest HP amps I've used, and definitely the most narrow SS amp. Is it really lacking that much width?
> 
> Ideal for me is little or no crosstalk at all, full width, like pro audio gear.


Neither struck me as being particularly narrow, though both are more narrow than my tube amps, which I think I've now determined I prefer, now that I know they drive the Susvaras as well as the Oor stack or the Enleum. The Oor stack and the Enleum are both excellent listens, but my experiment with Solid State over; back to the tubes!


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## IanB52

LarsMan said:


> Neither struck me as being particularly narrow, though both are more narrow than my tube amps, which I think I've now determined I prefer, now that I know they drive the Susvaras as well as the Oor stack or the Enleum. The Oor stack and the Enleum are both excellent listens, but my experiment with Solid State over; back to the tubes!


I'm also coming to the end of the road with solid state amps, I think. I've always gone with SS because most tubes I have heard lost too much from the DAC. But solid state seems to lose something too...

With the width thing, it is somewhat headphone related and I don't have the Susvara. It fares better with Audeze than Abyss or Meze. The Enleum sounds like a 5ft wide pillar of sound with the Diana TC. It's crosstalk/crossfeed, which some people love.


----------



## LarsMan

IanB52 said:


> I'm also coming to the end of the road with solid state amps, I think. I've always gone with SS because most tubes I have heard lost too much from the DAC. But solid state seems to lose something too...
> 
> With the width thing, it is somewhat headphone related and I don't have the Susvara. It fares better with Audeze than Abyss or Meze. The Enleum sounds like a 5ft wide pillar of sound with the Diana TC. It's crosstalk/crossfeed, which some people love.


... and I like Utopias a lot too, and those have a really narrow soundstage, but it is ohhhh so deep, you can just wander around in the music. That's what I love about the Utopia that I can't get from any other headphone I've tried, including Susvara. I've had that 5ft wide pillar of sound thing you mean, but it's mostly always been on gear that needed more breaking-in time before the good stuff emerged....


----------



## Sajid Amit

Gavin C4 said:


> Yes, definitly will upgrade to Apex Rossini. The upgrade will be available at my local dealer by June.


----------



## Sajid Amit (Mar 19, 2022)

LarsMan said:


> Neither struck me as being particularly narrow, though both are more narrow than my tube amps, which I think I've now determined I prefer, now that I know they drive the Susvaras as well as the Oor stack or the Enleum. The Oor stack and the Enleum are both excellent listens, but my experiment with Solid State over; back to the tubes!


Try a good tube pre-amp with the Ferrum stack.

I prefer my PrimaLuna EVO 400 Pre-amp and Ferrum stack to the WA33 driving the Susvaras and the Utopia.





Although price-wise, the EVO and the Ferrum probably surpasses that of the stock WA33.


----------



## Gavin C4

IanB52 said:


> I'm also coming to the end of the road with solid state amps, I think. I've always gone with SS because most tubes I have heard lost too much from the DAC. But solid state seems to lose something too...
> 
> With the width thing, it is somewhat headphone related and I don't have the Susvara. It fares better with Audeze than Abyss or Meze. The Enleum sounds like a 5ft wide pillar of sound with the Diana TC. It's crosstalk/crossfeed, which some people love.



What makes the Hypsos and OOR special is the slight warm signature of the Solid State amp, while maintaining very the clarity. It is very hard to strive such a balance between the two. The OOR does not achieve it by adding fake brightness to the music. The entire spectrum is well controlled with faitgue free experience, slight warm in signature but maintain all the details from the source and ultra good clarity. This is why the OOR scales soo good.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Gavin C4 said:


> What makes the Hypsos and OOR special is the slight warm signature of the Solid State amp, while maintaining very the clarity. It is very hard to strive such a balance between the two. The OOR does not achieve it by adding fake brightness to the music. The entire spectrum is well controlled with faitgue free experience, slight warm in signature but maintain all the details from the source and ultra good clarity. This is why the OOR scales soo good.


Agree. Best SS I have tried. I prefer to any other SS.


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## 801evan (Mar 20, 2022)

hypnos1 said:


> appear...for example 801evan's mention of higher voltage increasing distortion did at first seem to explain the occasional slight edginess



You made a great post!  I didn't necessarily say more  distortion on higher voltage...coz lower distortion is also its own form of distortion, but consistently the sonic signature of going above or below the recommended voltage is consistent.

I don't deny your experience when using weipu to weipu vs the 2.5mm. but I think that's because of the quality of the dc plugs used. Plug quality makes a big difference. Lachlan made a good point on the TT2 about how adapters are the one's influencing the sound than line out being better than HP out (or vice versa). Which is in line with people thinking speaker amps are better but still uses an adapter. Their impressions exactly show that most of what they are hearing is the adapter.

I don't know the quality of the dc plug on the hypsos dc cable but I use oyaide dc plugs and have had good results in terms of lack of edge. I tried some Oyaide from AliExpress that turns out to be counterfeit (more grainy, some edge), tried some generic "hq" dc plugs from ALIX (edgy and grainy)  and also a 2.1 to 2.5 (edgy)  coupler and all three gave inferior signatures compared to Oyaide.



hypnos1 said:


> And by the same token, using OOR's 'bypass' function, thereby outputting at max volume, one would expect this type of 'distortion' to perhaps result to a certain degree?...but no, the opposite in fact - a bass-washed, poorly balanced, lacklustre sound.



Here is an important tell-tale. It should be better when on bypass. No different on how low gain should sound better. These are indicators on how to fix the other parts of the chain wherein the goal is to make low gain and bypass sound better in one's chain. Exactly how I'm able to get good sub bass and bass quantity on the susvara on my Diablo mod on low gain and on the Hugo 2. Meanwhile, speaker amp + susvara gang are saying susvara lacks bass.. 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

I've had my fair share of battles similar to what you experienced in bypass mode and what I can say about that is it exposes the other stuff on your chain that has weaker blacks.

It's hard to compare psu on the ORR. But I've done many tests on the Hypsos on multiple devices chains. I've had the hdplex, lps 1.2, some chifi-lps, farad 3, ipower x, elite, powerbanks, and used with/without line conditioners on multiple dc devices hence my ability to conclude the performance of the Hypsos. Blackness is relative and within the range of one's personal experience. If I only had the hdplex / lps 1.2, or an sbooster, I can say the Hypsos is the blackest psu. The supplied dc cable is rolled off on the upper mids and up and has a haze so I can see why people think it's warm.



Gavin C4 said:


> After warming up for 12 hours, the bass has much more slam and better base over all.


After much diagnosis in my chain, one actually has to reset the hypsos just before a listening session . Keeping it on too long saturates something and creates this dirty distortion that can give more punch and extra bass than it really is.


----------



## Gavin C4

LarsMan said:


> ... and I like Utopias a lot too, and those have a really narrow soundstage, but it is ohhhh so deep, you can just wander around in the music. That's what I love about the Utopia that I can't get from any other headphone I've tried, including Susvara. I've had that 5ft wide pillar of sound thing you mean, but it's mostly always been on gear that needed more breaking-in time before the good stuff emerged....



The Utopia really synergize very well with the Hypsos OOR stack. The warm signature of the OOR ensures there will be no clinical or metalic souund from the Utopia. The clarity of the amp synergies with the speed and slam of the Utopia. The entire pairing is so dynamic. Utopia and Hypsos OOR is such a dream pairing.


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## Sajid Amit (Mar 20, 2022)

Gavin C4 said:


> The Utopia really synergize very well with the Hypsos OOR stack. The warm signature of the OOR ensures there will be no clinical or metalic souund from the Utopia. The clarity of the amp synergies with the speed and slam of the Utopia. The entire pairing is so dynamic. Utopia and Hypsos OOR is such a dream pairing.


Yup. For my money, you probably have the best single chain on Head-Fi in terms of having a single all-rounder headphone that does it all (Rossini Apex > Ferrum > Utopia).

But of course, others will prefer to build chains around the Susvara and the TC, which is valid and awesome.


----------



## LarsMan

Sajid Amit said:


> Try a good tube pre-amp with the Ferrum stack.
> 
> I prefer my PrimaLuna EVO 400 Pre-amp and Ferrum stack to the WA33 driving the Susvaras and the Utopia.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the suggestion; I do have a tube pre-amp in my 2-channel system; it's from Herron Audio and is about as neutral as a tube preamp can be; it doesn't even look like it uses tubes, but wow does it sound great. I've got a different DAC in that system too, a Holo May. Too many combinations and permutations of stuff to try out!


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## normie610

Sajid Amit said:


> Try a good tube pre-amp with the Ferrum stack.
> 
> I prefer my PrimaLuna EVO 400 Pre-amp and Ferrum stack to the WA33 driving the Susvaras and the Utopia.
> 
> ...


I assume the Evo 400 preamp is better than Freya+?


----------



## Roasty

normie610 said:


> I assume the Evo 400 preamp is better than Freya+?



I'm not Sajid and haven't tried the Freya, but the Evo 400 is a fantastic pre. swap out the stock drivers to some new production genalex and mullard 12au7 tubes and the sq gets another big jump. 

for tube pre, with some factory gain, it has a tremendously quiet background. macrodynamics are off the charts. 

sorry for the OT!


----------



## Sajid Amit

normie610 said:


> I assume the Evo 400 preamp is better than Freya+?


Yes. Considerably. I have compared them in a vid if you want to check it out.

Of course, another person’s mileage may vary.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Roasty said:


> I'm not Sajid and haven't tried the Freya, but the Evo 400 is a fantastic pre. swap out the stock drivers to some new production genalex and mullard 12au7 tubes and the sq gets another big jump.
> 
> for tube pre, with some factory gain, it has a tremendously quiet background. macrodynamics are off the charts.
> 
> sorry for the OT!


Indeed. Very impressive macro dynamics. I have also ordered the upgrade tubes as per Roasty’s reliable advice.


----------



## 801evan

Having tube as a pre will add so much distortion tho... It will help chains with high noise and amps that requires high gain to operate by adding lots of color but that is too much band-aiding and not fixing the source of the problem and far from the path of getting transparency.


----------



## LarsMan

801evan said:


> Having tube as a pre will add so much distortion tho... It will help chains with high noise and amps that requires high gain to operate by adding lots of color but that is too much band-aiding and not fixing the source of the problem and far from the path of getting transparency.


Personally, if it sounds better to me, bring on the distortion! That's all I care about - what sounds best to me, not what its measurements are or what anybody else thinks of it. If an oscilloscope doesn't like it, it knows where the door is!


----------



## 801evan

It's just fundamental. If you like it, so be it, but one can't claim it for transparency. It is at best, a band-aid and not fixing the source of the problem and reflects the chain of the person rather than the device at hand, which in this case is the hypsos + OOR.


----------



## carboncopy

801evan said:


> It's just fundamental. If you like it, so be it, but one can't claim it for transparency. It is at best, a band-aid and not fixing the source of the problem and reflects the chain of the person rather than the device at hand, which in this case is the hypsos + OOR.


You know...there are a lot of distortion. I mean very different kind. SS devices struggle with termal induced distortions, the chip doing the amplification is so small (inside a FET or Transistor) that the signal can modulate it's plate temperatur, creating a very dynamic enviroment resulting to a continuos shift of funademtal parameters. That you won't see on any oscilloscope. Tube are immune to this.

SS devices struggle with overshoot problems because of the negative feedback used. The "open state of the circuit" where the open loop gain effective is for a very short time. It can be remedied, but 99% it is there.

And so on, there were just easier to explain.

Sure, tubes have also many - so called fundamental - problems. Distortion, noise, bandwith, etc...Question is...which distorsions are really fundamental to your ear? 

I am not partial to any technology, currenctly I have a tube dac (which is the most transparent DAC I ever heard and I heard a LOT), and SS amp.


----------



## 801evan

Lol. Just coz I talk about tube distortion doesn't mean that ss have zero distortion.... Gee


----------



## carboncopy

801evan said:


> Having tube as a pre will add so much distortion tho... It will help chains with high noise and amps that requires high gain to operate by adding lots of color but that is too much band-aiding and not fixing the source of the problem and far from the path of getting transparency.


My point was, that this "statement" is simply false.

But you can laugh out loud as long as you wish sir.


----------



## 801evan

carboncopy said:


> My point was, that this "statement" is simply false.
> 
> But you can laugh out loud as long as you wish sir.


Consistently, poor noise floor, high distortion chains will sound better with a tube as a pre- or as an amp. On a good chain, the color and additive quality tube brings will be more apparent and obviously takes out some transparency in the sound.

For bypass mode to be effective on the ORR, better to have a DAC with variable out. Chord products and pro idsd are examples. Soekris dac1321 and Cambridge 200m has fixed and  var options on line out but both sound inferior as variable. So one does need to test which is better in this case but Chord would be one of the best ones to use with variable out and not have an extra chain plus extra set of interconnects to pollute the sound.


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## carboncopy (Mar 20, 2022)

Just for the sake of dicusssion...I get it where you are. Actually I myself have always thrived for simplicity of main chains. The Aries Cerat Heléne has only one active device which is followed by an Enleum 23R, which is a discreet current amplification device with gain controll (in theory much better as the volume pots in middle of the chain with a fixed high gain amp after it). It is a very direct path and it therefore it is very transparent.

Yet, one has to choose every system component very carefully, while theory in itself would not lead to good sound. Putting aside that I do not like the presentation of Chord DAC's, the DAVE for example is strictly a single ended device, the Ferrum is full balanced. It converts unbalanced to balanced at the input, question is how exactly? And what is the price (in sound) of this converstion. Can be done in my ways.

Which is better, the digilat volume controll of the Chord (which I did not liked at all), or the four gang ALPS in the Oor? I read somewhere that there is some linearisation to this pot somehow made in the Oor, and better be, because every analogue pot has difference is volume in the 1-2 % (at minimal). Now, you not only have it between the channels, but in one chanel too (between phase and anti-phase). That's the reason Pathos uses a very different solution for it's balanced amp.

So it's always the chain. And in my experience, somehow, a good sounding chain is not always logical (should not be good in theory). It baffled me several times and I myself try to create always focused, minimalistic chains...but I was not once surprised with very-very good results from wildly unpractical systems. If you trust your ears.

Adding an additional preamp to a system which could function without it (no need for extra inputs, phone stage, etc) is somehow always on top of this list. I just don't have the money the buy one which would be appropiate in my system.


----------



## krude

carboncopy said:


> Just for the sake of dicusssion...I get it where you are. Actually I myself have always thrived for simplicity of main chains. The Aries Cerat Heléne has only one active device which is followed by an Enleum 23R, which is a discreet current amplification device with gain controll (in theory much better as the volume pots in middle of the chain with a fixed high gain amp after it). It is a very direct path and it therefore it is very transparent.
> 
> Yet, one has to choose every system component very carefully, while theory in itself would not lead to good sound. Putting aside that I do not like the presentation of Chord DAC's, the DAVE for example is strictly a single ended device, the Ferrum is full balanced. It converts unbalanced to balanced at the input, question is how exactly? And what is the price (in sound) of this converstion. Can be done in my ways.
> 
> ...


There are many reasons why people are in this hobby. To reproduce the recording in the most technically excellent way, to reproduce a feeling of a live event or to enjoy the music in the best way to your ears you can find.

Often those goals are mutually exclusive and require different chains for different goals. Thankfully I just want to enjoy the music so my path is relatively simple 😅


----------



## 801evan

carboncopy said:


> Just for the sake of dicusssion...I get it where you are. Actually I myself have always thrived for simplicity of main chains. The Aries Cerat Heléne has only one active device which is followed by an Enleum 23R, which is a discreet current amplification device with gain controll (in theory much better as the volume pots in middle of the chain with a fixed high gain amp after it). It is a very direct path and it therefore it is very transparent.
> 
> Yet, one has to choose every system component very carefully, while theory in itself would not lead to good sound. Putting aside that I do not like the presentation of Chord DAC's, the DAVE for example is strictly a single ended device, the Ferrum is full balanced. It converts unbalanced to balanced at the input, question is how exactly? And what is the price (in sound) of this converstion. Can be done in my ways.
> 
> ...


I've been talking about duels... Enleum vs OOR and decoding another user's impression and saying Enleum may be better than the OOR. Then it's helping comparing bypass mode or not via variable out on a dac. But tube pre-amp wouldn't be the solution for transparency.

Dave is enough to drive any headphones. It's great for the Susvara or the TC. One has to focus on other components, transport, line filtering and spdif in if they feel the sound is underwhelming. Buying a Woo or whatever is not the solution.


----------



## LarsMan

801evan said:


> It's just fundamental. If you like it, so be it, but one can't claim it for transparency. It is at best, a band-aid and not fixing the source of the problem and reflects the chain of the person rather than the device at hand, which in this case is the hypsos + OOR.


That's just it - I'm not claiming anything other than something that sounds the best to me. I care about band-aids when I cut my finger. I'm more interested in listening to music I enjoy in a way that I enjoy it than I am in tracking down sources of problems I can't hear. Both approaches are fine, no value judgements here....


----------



## LarsMan

801evan said:


> Consistently, poor noise floor, high distortion chains will sound better with a tube as a pre- or as an amp. On a good chain, the color and additive quality tube brings will be more apparent and obviously takes out some transparency in the sound.
> 
> For bypass mode to be effective on the ORR, better to have a DAC with variable out. Chord products and pro idsd are examples. Soekris dac1321 and Cambridge 200m has fixed and  var options on line out but both sound inferior as variable. So one does need to test which is better in this case but Chord would be one of the best ones to use with variable out and not have an extra chain plus extra set of interconnects to pollute the sound.


Which is great if one likes the Chord sound, but not everybody does, including me. I'd rather have tubes and 'pollution' than Chord and 'no pollution'. 

You _seem_ to imply that whatever sounds good to you should sound good to everybody else, and what doesn't sound good to you should not sound good to anybody else. Gear is just there to serve the music listening experience, which is different for everybody.


----------



## LarsMan

801evan said:


> I've been talking about duels... Enleum vs OOR and decoding another user's impression and saying Enleum may be better than the OOR. Then it's helping comparing bypass mode or not via variable out on a dac. But tube pre-amp wouldn't be the solution for transparency.
> 
> Dave is enough to drive any headphones. It's great for the Susvara or the TC. One has to focus on other components, transport, line filtering and spdif in if they feel the sound is underwhelming. Buying a Woo or whatever is not the solution.


I'll take Woo over DAVE anyday. In fact, I had a DAVE and M Scaler and I sold them. But I'm sure they measure much better than the gear I kept....


----------



## 801evan (Mar 20, 2022)

LarsMan said:


> You _seem_ to imply that whatever sounds good to you should sound good to everybody else, and what doesn't sound good to you should not sound good to anybody else.


I don't imply that at all... Lol. Like in your case, I'm dissecting what you said and what it really means. As I've said, I'm not denying your experience. It's actually the other ppl calling me a troll just cause I'm able to explain and experience susvara having good SQ and actually have sub bass and bass on much lesser amplification that is implying that since they can only get susvara to 'sing' on a >5watt amp and on high gain that I can't achieve what I claim. 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️ meanwhile some ppl take their claim, buys an ORR + hypsos and says they can't get any bass on the Sus and now the hype machine is backtracking on what they said.


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## hypnos1 (Mar 20, 2022)

801evan said:


> You made a great post!  I didn't necessarily say more  distortion on higher voltage...coz lower distortion is also its own form of distortion, but consistently the sonic signature of going above or below the recommended voltage is consistent.
> 
> I don't deny your experience when using weipu to weipu vs the 2.5mm. but I think that's because of the quality of the dc plugs used. Plug quality makes a big difference. Lachlan made a good point on the TT2 about how adapters are the one's influencing the sound than line out being better than HP out (or vice versa). Which is in line with people thinking speaker amps are better but still uses an adapter. Their impressions exactly show that most of what they are hearing is the adapter.
> 
> ...


Hi evan.

I respect and applaud the extensive tests you have undertaken thus far and with some interesting results. But don't forget that all this notwithstanding, this is still a mere fraction of _all_ the possible  permutational interactions between components and (different) resultant effects lol! 'Cause and Effect', not to mention _Effect _and Cause(?) is a notorious minefield of course...

As @carboncopy hints, yet another multi-faceted (and misconstruable) audiophile term "distortion" comes in many, confusing and contradictory guises which, when combined with "low noise floor" and associated "blacks", can only too easily lead to incorrect assumptions. I refer to your statements re. my own results using OOR's bypass mode - ("other stuff having weaker blacks") and "Blackness being relative"......etc.

I propose that although in (one) theory bypass mode should give superior performance, I believe that cc's stance on the possible (neg) effects of_ increased _power through certain SS components may equally well be a factor in my own system's result (bypass giving MAX volume out)... and _not_ due to other areas of the system displaying higher 'noise' or 'weaker blacks'. Again, I would submit that this whole area is far more complex than may at first appear, and therefore is one with a myriad different interpretations. After years of scrutinising and upgrading (within reason!) all areas of my system that might have _noticeable_, negative effects on sound delivery, I personally believe (and hope!) that any residual shortcomings will only have minimal negative impact... in the vein of 'fine tuning'. And years of experimenting with many dozens of different tubes in different amps have at least taught me how to recognise when background is being compromised in any way 

Each area of upgrade has brought its own benefits, from obvious to subtle, and with progressive improvement in clarity/detail retrieval/separation/placement/tonal range/3 dimensional stage/definition/precision and 'control'/dynamics and transient handling/PRaT etc. etc. I list below the main areas of attack and would be most interested - and appreciative!, of any suggestions as to those that might bring _significant_ improvement by alteration...respecting my wallet, that is lol...

1. Power : AC mains- Unswitched mains socket>AirlinkTransformers ASF 3000 Balanced Mains Conditioner w/Avery Magnetics Advanced Filter System>all equipment. DC - ("Ultra Low Noise") LPS @15V for TT2/mscaler; Hypsos 4 pin DIY 'FPL' to OOR @28V.
2. Source : Antipodes DX server/player via internal 2TB SSD. ENO ethernet filter (UP-OCC silver, passive).
3. DAC/AMP/(pre out) : Chord TT2/mscaler combo.
4. HP amp : Ferrum Hypsos-fed OOR.
5. Cables/plugs : (all DIY) - AC mains : highly shielded dual configuration (separate for pos/neg), using Neotech Teflon coated UP-OCC silver and copper (both solid). MS HD 13A plugs (with upgraded fuses) and Neotech gold plated UP-OCC copper IECs.

DC : Same Neotech wires, also dualled & shielded, either connected directly to equipment or via 'connectorless' use of cables' wires as pins (or pure soft-annealed silver for the 'FPL' link)...I just _hate_ connectors and reduce/remove wherever possible!

ICs : mscaler to TT2 - 2x BNC dualled & shielded again   (for signal/return), with cable wires' pos as pins. RCA out from TT2 to OOR - multi-gauge (this time) Neotech UP-OCC silver and copper, with KLE Innovations 'Pure Harmony' silver plugs.

USB (Antipodes to mscaler) : Dualled & shielded/UP-OCC silver with wires fashioned to act as the pins once more (you try it lol!! ).

I don't profess to have everything _absolutely_ covered, but I hope these (not inconsiderably tortu/rous) efforts should be sufficient to at least minimise the degree of interference in the fraught-ridden journey of our poor audio signals!!

EDIT...ps. Empyrean's cable also (DIY) multi-gauge UP-OCC solid silver and copper wires, each channel's 4 pins _separately_ connected, Neutrik XLR plug but the cable's wires once again acting as pins.


----------



## GoldenOne

In regards to the discussion regarding 'distortion' and bypass mode on the OOR and whether you should use it, the OOR does indeed perform slightly better in bypass mode.

If we look at a realistic headphone listening level of about 700mv, here's what we get:

*No Bypass, 4v in to OOR, medium gain, pot adjusted to 700mv output:* ~97.2dB THD+N






*Bypass enabled, input level adjusted using a good preamp so that output is 700mv:* ~101.2dB THD+N





So yes you will get slightly better performance using bypass mode. Though this is of course dependent on how you're doing the volume control. If you use a high quality preamp like a Goldpoint, Holo Serene, LA4 etc you can get something like the result above. If you use DAC volume control you're unlikely to get that level of performance cause you'll be cutting off too much dynamic range.

I used the DAVE given as @801evan mentioned that as an example.

*DAVE in Pre mode, -28dB vol, OOR in bypass:* ~93.6dB THD+N




Closest I could get with the 1dB increments available on the DAVE was just under 700mv, but at 1dB higher (780mv) it's still lower than just using the vol control on the amp anyway. (Or a higher quality external preamp)

*DAVE in Pre mode, -27dB vol, OOR in bypass:* ~94.6dB THD+N




So yes, if you have a high quality preamp, it's probably best to use the OOR in bypass. If doing it via DSP vol control, it'll depend on the DAC as to which way is better.


----------



## OneEyedHito

GoldenOne said:


> In regards to the discussion regarding 'distortion' and bypass mode on the OOR and whether you should use it, the OOR does indeed perform slightly better in bypass mode.
> 
> If we look at a realistic headphone listening level of about 700mv, here's what we get:
> 
> ...


This was my experience (my ears) also, thanks for confirming and posting.


----------



## IanB52

Just curious if anyone has compared the Ferrum stack against the XI Formula S+Powerman combo?


----------



## Gavin C4 (Mar 20, 2022)

dCS is a really solid choice for modern DACs with streaming ability. With modern streaming services and apps such as Roon or Audiorivana. I am currently using the dCS Rossini and clock. Getting a DAC with streaming intergration is really useful. Together with the solid sound quality and their reputation in the Hi Fi industry with consistance software upgrade for the FPGA. It is a very solid and reliable source gear for the Hypsos and OOR stack.

Another solid choice is the Holo May DAC as it is a really good R2R DAC. But it require a streamer upfront to handle streaming needs.

The OOR and Hypsos stack is a truely transparent amp that is suitable to handle any source gear really well. It can maintain the characteristic of your up front gear, so every thing you changed in your up front chain will truely reflect in your music. It does not mask off any thing from your source. Therefore the Hypsos and OOR makes it that much more fun in your pairing hobby.

I can see this is why different people have different preference on their DAC source especially when pairing with the OOR. It is because it can reveal the source very clearly.


----------



## 801evan (Mar 21, 2022)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi evan.
> 
> I respect and applaud the extensive tests you have undertaken thus far and with some interesting results. But don't forget that all this notwithstanding, this is still a mere fraction of _all_ the possible  permutational interactions between components and (different) resultant effects lol! 'Cause and Effect', not to mention _Effect _and Cause(?) is a notorious minefield of course...
> 
> ...


This is great that you listed your chain to better understand what's going on, and what a great chain it is.

Great job on the custom silver for the FPL route. That's great and takes out the factory cable as an issue. If you compared that with a similar 2.5mm build then we can probably assess the delta between the two plugs and also with a Oyaide 2.5mm. upgrade the internal wire to silver if you can as that helped with the blacks, extension.

We can in one way conclude not bypassing is  better and close this conversation. Lol. And timing a screenshot on a apx555 to fit a narrative is not helpful since that signal/value dances around.

But to make bypass mode better...there's a lot of potential especially since you have a chord DAC.

1. Try taking out the HMS in the chain and do spdif in to the tt2. Usb is too noisy. And see how the blacks/distortion are.

2. Do Spdif in to the HMS as it lowers distortion too. My CDT + OCXO sounds better without the HMS for example but other components did sound better. Turns out HMS has a RF issue in-line and over air so one has to keep it a fair distance from other components and unfortunately for the wallet, use the wavestorms BNC. So I may have to nullify my use of the HMS as I didn't manage to run it to full potential but that's another kind of impressions that needs to commit more $$$.

3. What LPS are you using on the HMS / TT2?

4. While an inconclusive statement, I find the Empy not that revealing and is an HP I find that is very forgiving on okay systems but coats too much or can't keep up on a highly transparent chain.

5. Gotta hook me up on who builds these wires as pins. Lol. And what's the max awg.

6. Here's the caveat and related to your lack of balance issue on 'bypass mode', each time I upgrade, and I do things incrementally on things I'm 'sure' of, I will get upgrades AND growing pains. Part of the upgrade is soundstage size, smoothness and top and bottom extension. BUT what comes along with it is it exposes new crap I have to clean up. The latest is the Klei plugs that I've been happy with for 3 years are actually the new weakest link/boundary. It made the upper mids crushed and have a ceiling. To my surprise, the same silver build I had but with silver bullet plugs that uses silver rods which always sounded too much on the upper mids and up , yet much faster and transparent and left unused for 3 years, is now less bright, more extended and more proper and more black. How can plugs which both are silver, have more blacks over the other, I don't understand yet. Hence a box with a bunch of inlets and wires that needs another pair of IC to act as a pre-amp is unconvincing to be transparent.

Also related was my recent upgrade on my psu for my CDT + OCXO, which has 4x more lt3045 than the previous build and while it extended the soundstage, it opened a new can of worms as well, part of which was a loss of balance and seemingly weaker blacks whilst having bigger soundstage. IF I only had stopped 6 weeks before that, I would have been happy and perfectly content but here I am hearing a much much bigger upgrade in sound but with new problems. Fortunately I know what to do, which is modifying my custom line conditioner and add heavier filtering to match the new level of transparency downstream.

7. I am reminded of the voltage requirements on the OOR when I saw the rear panel. I will/may have to agree on your 28v rating on it because this aligns to the ifi pro iDSD + pro iCan where my friend said 18v on the Hypsos  is a faster better timing sound he prefers over the custom filtered ifi Elite 15v I built for him. But if both are 15v, Ifi elite is better. Both pro iDSD and pro iCan is rated to accept up to 19v as per manual. If I recall correctly, on a stock Hypsos I preferred 15v over anything higher on the pro iDSD. So that's consistent with your chain and puts a snag on my ifi elite 24v as a budget + better solution to power the OOR.

Edit: oh wait this is actually inconclusive still on the pro iDSD coz he had to use the custom Elite 15v to power the zen stream so no direct comparison on the Elite 15v vs hypsos 18v. It was only a hypsos 15v vs 18v battle.

8. Can you test bypass on and off on low gain and see if it is the same behavior.  This is the gain values on their site:
Gain (dB): balanced -4 dB, + 6dB, +16 dB / single ended -10 dB, 0 dB, 10 dB

Since your Empy is on XLR, being on bypass may have exposed the higher noise on 6dB on mid gain.

9. Oh I remember now. You may need to put sorbothanes on everything you have. That's how I got the blacks on my system as I was also experiencing less blacks while upgrading.


----------



## hypnos1

GoldenOne said:


> In regards to the discussion regarding 'distortion' and bypass mode on the OOR and whether you should use it, the OOR does indeed perform slightly better in bypass mode.
> 
> If we look at a realistic headphone listening level of about 700mv, here's what we get:
> 
> ...


Thanks GoldenOne for taking the time to check this out. And your results would indicate to me at least that such (measurement) differences are likely to have minimal _noticeable_ effects when transferred over to what we actually _hear_ in practice lol!  And certainly far outweighed by pretty well every other factor in the sound chain, especially headphones used...not to mention the significant differences when outputting 28V from Hypsos instead of 24V. And then there's  the myriad different permutations of said o/p level; DAC/pre o/p level; DAC _in_put level from source and its own track recording level; OOR's gain level; system impedance matching/_mis_matching etc. etc.! All of which can have us going round and round in ever decreasing circles alas...

In short, and as you yourself mentioned, all will depend on each individual's system configuration...not to mention quality of components therein. In other words, a veritable maelstrom of variables LOL. 

Am glad @Gavin C4 had positive results from going bypass in his own system, but I myself won't be bothering to try different permutations in an attempt to alter my own results since finding a combination with _no_ bypass that brings the best sound I could ever hope for, or want 

Plus, there's one more factor to take into account here - and a _*very*_ important one IMHO...ie _*safety*_. With OOR's volume output thereby constantly at MAXIMUM, any drastic mistake with its input level could prove catastrophic...which is precisely why Ferrum are very vocal in their absolving themselves of _any_ responsibility if any such tragedy should occur! For me, any (possible) _slight_ benefit is far outweighed by such a risk...especially when far greater gains can often be had by simply looking elsewhere in one's system, albeit perhaps not for free lol!

AND...could constant max volume possibly have a negative effect on circuitry components after prolonged use? No...not for me I'm afraid...


----------



## hypnos1

801evan said:


> This is great that you listed your chain to better understand what's going on, and what a great chain it is.
> 
> Great job on the custom silver for the FPL route. That's great and takes out the factory cable as an issue. If you compared that with a similar 2.5mm build then we can probably assess the delta between the two plugs and also with a Oyaide 2.5mm. upgrade the internal wire to silver if you can as that helped with the blacks, extension.
> 
> ...


Evan...thanks for your appreciation of my efforts - they did nothing to keep my blood pressure down or my hair from falling out lol!  And thanks also for taking the time to address aspects of my system.

But first, I must say that your own findings when taking the upgrade path echo my own over the years when addicted to tubes...ie can end up a veritable nightmare!! Altering one aspect can have both _positive_ results in one sense, but then negative in another...especially in component _synergy/compatibility_ or highlighting something previously thought 'best', and probably not cheap! Falling down too many rabbit holes is one reason I deserted my beloved glass wonders for a _'simpler'?!_ life in SS land. But your own interminable strivings have now convinced me that this new land can be just as fraught..._if one isn't careful lol._ And so, given I ain't getting any younger I shall be calling a halt to any further 'tinkering' of my system, especially as I'm the happiest I've ever been with what is entering my ears and brain. At last I'm relieved to say I have reached my journey's end, courtesy of this wonderful Ferrum combo as the last link in my chain.

However, I shall reply as best I can to your welcome suggestions/questions, given I now have no desire whatsoever to go anywhere near OOR's _bypass_ mode, as per my post on this subject just now.

1. No way am I touching HMS...that stays permanently in place! What it does for transient handling and upscaling CD quality is, for me, totally priceless.
2. Although previously always preferring digital coax over any other vehicle, the guy(s) at Antipodes went to great lengths to optimise for USB rather than spdif...and the guy at Vortexbox/Audiostore even queried why I should even want to consider it?! And much to my amazement, the quality from Antipodes to mscaler via USB took me completely by surprise. Those New Zealanders have managed to pull off a _major_ miracle IMO, and am more than happy to review my previous abhorrence of USB...

HMS's 2ghz signal generation has, thankfully, never presented me with either any noticeably negative effects, or any hint of even subtle sound degradation...in my own system at least. It would appear that my method of cable construction (throughout), ie dual, with separate well-shielded cables for pos/neg and signal/return (and as short as possible) are sufficient to suppress any/most interference as well as give superb signal transfer via the Neotech UP-OCC wires, and without the need for that horrendous snake of a ferrite-ridden, very expensive 'Wavestorm' cable(s)!  I myself have never had much truck with ferrites I'm afraid, although some systems may actually _need_ them, poor souls...

And I was also much encouraged by my shootout with a fellow member's Dave/HMS (*with* Wavestorms) setup, fed by a Zen MKIII. I was rather surprised - nay disappointed in a way, to have regarded my own setup as performing better on most counts....I was expecting stars from Dave lol!! But then, I'm sure TT2's direct hp out is in fact even better than Dave's! And that was with my Naim UnitiCore as source, which has since been way surpassed by the Antipodes. I can't wait to re-enact the shootout, but now with everything elevated several notches by the Ferrum gear!
3. Sad to say my LPSs are Chinese models (120W), but look very well made and certainly outperform the stock Chord blocks (apparently carefully chosen by Chord's Rob Watts for very low 'noise', and also made in China). Not everything from China is poor quality of course, and a bonus is that I could replace both cables with my own 'specials'...those on the Chord fare being an absolute insult as far as I'm concerned! One day I might replace the LPSs' wiring with UP-OCC silver...if I get round to it lol...
4. Again, I'm quite sure the rest of my system - and especially _cables_, is/are helping my Empys perform a good level above 'average', and with sufficient transparency for my liking. One day I shall demo some Susvaras, even if just out of interest to see just what the Mezes (and I!) may be missing. But I doubt I would want to pay full price I'm afraid...shall wait for some good examples to enter the used market (unless blown away of course, and my better half doesn't get a whiff of their cost new!!).
5. I form the actual cables' wires myself into pin substitutes...I want the least possible interference in the cable run, especially with inferior contact metals and  - yeuch - _solder._ Only the 4 pins for the FPL link seemed too tricky to rely on this technique so I joined more rigid solid pure silver as pins, housed in part of an RCA plug!
6. ....
7. Yes, sticking with 28V out from Hypsos...gives just what I like, in the combination I've mentioned previously.
8. No more dabbling with bypass for me, again as mentioned previously!
9. For sound-deadening/isolation I've used (amazing) Dynamat Xtreme mat on the metal and glass of my rack; all equipment sitting on oak cone feet (also covered with Dynamat) and then on solid oak boards. In the future will probably go for a nice, entirely solid hardwood rack


----------



## Tachyon88

Zeos has spoken ! Praise be his name !


----------



## krude

Tachyon88 said:


> Zeos has spoken ! Praise be his name !



Oh the guy who says "all dacs sound the same" etc. He is entertaining in his own way


----------



## Gavin C4

The Hypsos and OOR stack is really worth it. You really get what you pay for. All the good design, electronics and tuning behind the stack is worth every penny. It is worth saving for the Hypsos power supply because it really makes that much more improvement.


----------



## Sajid Amit

LarsMan said:


> Which is great if one likes the Chord sound, but not everybody does, including me. I'd rather have tubes and 'pollution' than Chord and 'no pollution'.
> 
> You _seem_ to imply that whatever sounds good to you should sound good to everybody else, and what doesn't sound good to you should not sound good to anybody else. Gear is just there to serve the music listening experience, which is different for everybody.


Dave was one of the quickest catch and releases I have done, but I understand why people like it with the MScaler.


Gavin C4 said:


> The Hypsos and OOR stack is really worth it. You really get what you pay for. All the good design, electronics and tuning behind the stack is worth every penny. It is worth saving for the Hypsos power supply because it really makes that much more improvement.


Yup.

No brainer to me.

Question (to myself) is whether the Rossini Alpha DAC worth saving for, lol.


----------



## jlbrach

dave to my ears is the most detailed amp I have ever heard....I love it and have for several years with the blu 2...


----------



## Sajid Amit (Mar 21, 2022)

jlbrach said:


> dave to my ears is the most detailed amp I have ever heard....I love it and have for several years with the blu 2...


Very resolving, that Dave. Probably more detailed than some higher priced DACs.


----------



## 801evan

hypnos1 said:


> Evan...thanks for your appreciation of my efforts - they did nothing to keep my blood pressure down or my hair from falling out lol!  And thanks also for taking the time to address aspects of my system.
> 
> But first, I must say that your own findings when taking the upgrade path echo my own over the years when addicted to tubes...ie can end up a veritable nightmare!! Altering one aspect can have both _positive_ results in one sense, but then negative in another...especially in component _synergy/compatibility_ or highlighting something previously thought 'best', and probably not cheap! Falling down too many rabbit holes is one reason I deserted my beloved glass wonders for a _'simpler'?!_ life in SS land. But your own interminable strivings have now convinced me that this new land can be just as fraught..._if one isn't careful lol._ And so, given I ain't getting any younger I shall be calling a halt to any further 'tinkering' of my system, especially as I'm the happiest I've ever been with what is entering my ears and brain. At last I'm relieved to say I have reached my journey's end, courtesy of this wonderful Ferrum combo as the last link in my chain.
> 
> ...


Yey. One of the deepest and insightful post in this thread for me and I'm glad to see someone else do the legwork on another trajectory from mine.

I agree on anything ferrite vs my silver cables but... I'm keeping an open mind on those wavestorms thanks to the return policy and because I've been using clip ons. I'd be using it for my ocxo to cdt so it's a different case and outcome would be unpredictable. I have had similar results on shorter cables with my builds that counters the 1.5m minimum for coax to thwart reflections and much more transparent than coax that is "to spec".

That's good praise on the USB Antipodes. I'll check on it further. I've been doing a long chain of idefender > usb purifier > optical usb cable > idefender > USB purifier> dac. Both idefenders are powered by custom psu + 80x lt3045.

I agree on sticking to not using bypass mode at this rate.  The only last thing I can think off is comparing between both modes on low gain just for coverage. 🤷‍♂️ But just seeing Zeos praise bypass mode, it might be one of those situations where bypass mode oddly raises noise floor. The same reason why Susvara owners think speaker amps and high gain sounds better on their chain because of raised noise floor compliments the rest of their chain. But as you say, the sonic gains may not be worth it compared to the possible accident of being on bypass mode. It cant be THAT big. Besides, more DACs sounds more inferior being on variable mode than otherwise. That's why having a Chord dac is a good opportunity. An external pre-amp box would be worse. Those gold plated plugs is enough to artificially warm up the sound.

Personally there's more sanity in my scaling of devices. I do it incrementally and always do comparison checks. Things move for the better, and not different, which is important. Incremental upgrades over the years makes me more attuned to understanding anomalies and new gremlins. I gave up on tube rolling and tweaking the heck out of my dedicated NUC HQplayer setup because while things change, it's towards different and kinda better (or not) but still clueless on which would be more faithful.


----------



## SLC1966

Just got the OOR and Hypsos today.  Seems transformative with my Stealth HP.  Jury is still out with VC.  Sounds great but I need more time to feel what it is doing with the VC.  Also is amazing with IEMs.  Really amazing.

I do have a question.  I have a Rotel pre amp (RC-1070) feeding into a Rotel amp with B&W floor-standing speakers.  For fun I hooked up the OOR as the pre-amp in order to simplify my system.  Sounds very good to me.  Should the OOR be able to work as well or better than a 2ch pre amp?


----------



## Gavin C4 (Mar 22, 2022)

Saw Z talked about the A90 together with the Hypsos OOR stack.

A few things that I really agree is that the Ferrum stack that costed almost 3 grand should really have the 4.4 mm jack as it is a very popular termination option, especially for IEMs. Further more, the OOR is engineered so well that it handles IEM really well with no noise floor or hiss. It has perfect channel volume balance at low volume and very wide volume control range even at extreme low volumes. With the 4.4 mm it could make the OOR shine even more.

About the sound of the OOR and A90. The OOR is obviously much more refined. The spacing between the notes and size of all the placements are better than the A90. You get a much better image of the scene.

Clarity is another aspect that the OOR performs extremely well. Please do not mix up clarity with brightness. Every thing presented by the OOR has very clean lines. While compare to the A90 directly, it feels like the A90 has some blurs or not as clean lines. An analogy is like graphic 16x anti-aliasing on the Ferrum OOR vs No anti-alising on the A90.

The Ferrum Hypsos and OOR is really that much more refined as a whole compared to the A90. Worth the upgrade in any kind of way. The leap in performance is really real,  jumping from few hundred dollars to thousands. It has been a very long time since amps has really made me wow as it totally beat the law of diminished return this time.


----------



## krude

Gavin C4 said:


> Saw Z talked about the A90 together with the Hypsos OOR stack.
> 
> A few things that I really agree is that the Ferrum stack that costed almost 3 grand should really have the 4.4 mm jack as it is a very popular termination option, especially for IEMs. Further more, the OOR is engineered so well that it handles IEM really well with no noise floor or hiss. It has perfect channel volume balance at low volume and very wide volume control range even at extreme low volumes. With the 4.4 mm it could make the OOR shine even more.
> 
> ...


Oors front panel doesn't have space for another socket and it was developed primarily for Susvara, that's why it has the 4pin I would think, and it make sense for an amp with this much power as most poeple will use it with demanding totls. 

It does work great with IEMs, but do you need balanced for IEMs or is it just a marketing gimmick? Serious question here. As I understand it balanced is able to handle 2x the current therefore it became the satdard for demanding planars. I may be wrong here though.


----------



## kumar402

krude said:


> Oors front panel doesn't have space for another socket and it was developed primarily for Susvara, that's why it has the 4pin I would think, and it make sense for an amp with this much power as most poeple will use it with demanding totls.
> 
> It does work great with IEMs, but do you need balanced for IEMs or is it just a marketing gimmick? Serious question here. As I understand it balanced is able to handle 2x the current therefore it became the satdard for demanding planars. I may be wrong here though.


4.4 is also balanced and Susvara can be driven from it. If we go by this logic of only driving Susvara then I feel 3.5, I see in pic, is also redundant. 
PS- I have no qualm about missing 4.4, heck my amp only has XLR out and no I don’t think this amp is only for Susvara.


----------



## chesebert

krude said:


> Oors front panel doesn't have space for another socket and it was developed primarily for Susvara, that's why it has the 4pin I would think, and it make sense for an amp with this much power as most poeple will use it with demanding totls.
> 
> It does work great with IEMs, but do you need balanced for IEMs or is it just a marketing gimmick? Serious question here. As I understand it balanced is able to handle 2x the current therefore it became the satdard for demanding planars. I may be wrong here though.


you are wrong. I blame Tyll for calling bridged amp "balanced" and that's been the case ever since. Tyll wanted bridged amp for driving HD600. Bridged amp adds 6db of gain and that's it.


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## krude (Mar 22, 2022)

chesebert said:


> you are wrong. I blame Tyll for calling bridged amp "balanced" and that's been the case ever since. Tyll wanted bridged amp for driving HD600. Bridged amp adds 6db of gain and that's it.


Ok, care to explain? So are there any benefits of having balanced out for headphones apart from the 6db boost? Is that 6db boost coming at SQ loss (higher noise / distortion) as with higher gain?


----------



## chesebert

I mean if you have a true balanced circuit (fully complementary, fully differential and fully symmetrical) you get significant drive improvement, common mode noise rejection and reduced cross talk and other noise pollution. Lots of power amps do this but very few headphone amp do this. OOR is definitely not a true balanced design, so probably just giving you some gain without the benefit of a true balanced design.


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## krude (Mar 22, 2022)

chesebert said:


> I mean if you have a true balanced circuit (fully complementary, fully differential and fully symmetrical) you get significant drive improvement, common mode noise rejection and reduced cross talk and other noise pollution. Lots of power amps do this but very few headphone amp do this. OOR is definitely not a true balanced design, so probably just giving you some gain without the benefit of a true balanced design.


Ok I know what you mean now. What you describe is fully balanced amp design. Ferrum claims their signal path is actually fully balanced. Why would you say it's not? I know there are balanced outs on 100 usd amps and you could suspect those are just for convenience with some added gain (I think that's what you meant), but in this price bracket there seem to be quite a few manufacturers claiming to be fully balanced. I've heard Oor also being described as quad mono ... would that be dual mono fully balanced?

Sometimes hard to know what is the actual topology vs just marketing talk.


----------



## chesebert

krude said:


> Ok I know what you mean now. What you describe is fully balanced amp design. Ferrum claims their signal path is actually fully balanced. Why would you say it's not? I know there are balanced outs on 100 usd amps and you could suspect those are just for convenience with some added gain (I think that's what you meant), but in this price bracket there seem to be quite a few manufacturers claiming to be fully balanced. I've heard Oor also being described as quad mono ... would that be dual mono fully balanced?
> 
> Sometimes hard to know what is the actual topology vs just marketing talk.


if they say they are quad mono then the amp is likely fully complementary and fully symmetrical; not sure if its fully differential. Does L/R channel get its own power supply (doesn't look like it)? Anyway, balanced in headphone has been around since early/mid 2000s - Tyll started the trend.


----------



## 801evan (Mar 22, 2022)

chesebert said:


> I mean if you have a true balanced circuit (fully complementary, fully differential and fully symmetrical) you get significant drive improvement, common mode noise rejection and reduced cross talk and other noise pollution. Lots of power amps do this but very few headphone amp do this. OOR is definitely not a true balanced design, so probably just giving you some gain without the benefit of a true balanced design.


Wow..this is what I've been wondering about and this may be the first post mentioning such. Thank you.

Exactly makes sense on the +6 dB on the xlr output. Meh. So that makes it noisier (since not fully symmetrical) and half the damping factor. Good thing for me coz I don't have to make a third silver occ HP cable for a xlr end and expecting a benefit.

Edit: oh wait ofc...balanced out on HP amps are really bridged mode.


----------



## sawindra

Oor is truly balanced, you can see there are total of 4 amplification stages , 2 for each channel --> 1 for negative phase, 1 for positive.


if i am wrong, please explain.



now this will be interesting.


----------



## 801evan

Google bridge amping and it'll describe what's going on. 


sawindra said:


> Oor is truly balanced, you can see there are total of 4 amplification stages , 2 for each channel --> 1 for negative phase, 1 for positive.
> 
> 
> if i am wrong, please explain.
> ...


----------



## Arniesb

chesebert said:


> I mean if you have a true balanced circuit (fully complementary, fully differential and fully symmetrical) you get significant drive improvement, common mode noise rejection and reduced cross talk and other noise pollution. Lots of power amps do this but very few headphone amp do this. OOR is definitely not a true balanced design, so probably just giving you some gain without the benefit of a true balanced design.


Im sure you also get significantly lower distortion with balanced configurations.
In that aspect single ended designs cant come close except High feedback designs.


----------



## paradoxper

chesebert said:


> I mean if you have a true balanced circuit (fully complementary, fully differential and fully symmetrical) you get significant drive improvement, common mode noise rejection and reduced cross talk and other noise pollution. Lots of power amps do this but very few headphone amp do this. OOR is definitely not a true balanced design, so probably just giving you some gain without the benefit of a true balanced design.


Cough cough CFA3 rules. LOL


----------



## chargedcapacitor

paradoxper said:


> Cough cough CFA3 rules. LOL


Maybe, but RIP desk space LOL


----------



## chesebert (Mar 22, 2022)

paradoxper said:


> Cough cough CFA3 rules. LOL


fingers and toes crossed for commercial CFA3 ... come on @Kerry ...


----------



## paradoxper

chesebert said:


> fingers and toes crossed for commercial CFA3 ... come on @Kerry ...


You can see how surprised he is for how much demand there is for the CFA3.


----------



## chesebert

paradoxper said:


> You can see how surprised he is for how much demand there is for the CFA3.


I think I am the first in line if we are going by the post #


----------



## paradoxper

chesebert said:


> I think I am the first in line if we are going by the post #


There are a few DIY T2 owners whom have requested this for a time. Probably since @RudeWolf brought the CFA3 to my attention.


----------



## LarsMan

DIY?? For me, not in this lifetime.   But I can certainly understand how folks who like to build/assemble stuff would love a quality unit like this CFA3. 

I think I'll stick with these Polish guys at Ferrum or somebody else who knows electronics a lot better than I care to! I wanna buy something, hook it up, plug it in, turn it on, and music time!


----------



## IanB52 (Mar 22, 2022)

I just got my Oor+Hypsos combo, and man this thing is really interesting. In many ways it seems to take after my Manhattan II amp (manufactured by the same guys), but it is also something I've never heard before in terms of dynamics and space. I've tried a lot of amps and really haven't heard anything with the dynamic presentation of this thing.

Also, so far little harshness which was a problem I had with the Formula S+Powerman combo and Luxman p-750u. I think it is a little wider than the Amp 23r, and while it lacks the tone color, resolution is much better. Actually one of the darkest backgrounds I have heard. Maybe a little leaning towards the flat, crystalline images you get with the Formula S, but much more depth between layers and more micro dynamics, if less image height and (apparent) raw power.

It's freaking me out how lively and hard hitting this is.

This is within 15 min. Haven't touched the power options. Headphones.com free overnight delivery is pretty sweet too. Can't see myself getting rid of this one because the transparency is so crucial.


----------



## Sajid Amit

IanB52 said:


> I just got my Oor+Hypsos combo, and man this thing is really interesting. In many ways it seems to take after my Manhattan II amp (manufactured by the same guys), but it is also something I've never heard before in terms of dynamics and space. I've tried a lot of amps and really haven't heard anything with the dynamic presentation of this thing.
> 
> Also, so far little harshness which was a problem I had with the Formula S+Powerman combo and Luxman p-750u. I think it is a little wider than the Amp 23r, and while it lacks the tone color, resolution is much better. Actually one of the darkest backgrounds I have heard. Maybe a little leaning towards the flat, crystalline images you get with the Formula S, but much more depth between layers and more micro dynamics, if less image height and (apparent) raw power.
> 
> ...


Hard-hitting is how we are all hearing it.

Try it with the Utopia if you get a chance.

Sublime experience.

But that said everything from the HD650 to the Susvara, rocks hard on this stack. Pun intended, lol.


----------



## 801evan

hypnos1 said:


> Evan...thanks for your appreciation of my efforts - they did nothing to keep my blood pressure down or my hair from falling out lol!  And thanks also for taking the time to address aspects of my system.
> 
> But first, I must say that your own findings when taking the upgrade path echo my own over the years when addicted to tubes...ie can end up a veritable nightmare!! Altering one aspect can have both _positive_ results in one sense, but then negative in another...especially in component _synergy/compatibility_ or highlighting something previously thought 'best', and probably not cheap! Falling down too many rabbit holes is one reason I deserted my beloved glass wonders for a _'simpler'?!_ life in SS land. But your own interminable strivings have now convinced me that this new land can be just as fraught..._if one isn't careful lol._ And so, given I ain't getting any younger I shall be calling a halt to any further 'tinkering' of my system, especially as I'm the happiest I've ever been with what is entering my ears and brain. At last I'm relieved to say I have reached my journey's end, courtesy of this wonderful Ferrum combo as the last link in my chain.
> 
> ...


Oh I just had a thought... remember how I said it takes 15 mins to have the Hypsos settle down? When you switch to bypass mode that's enough to disturb the Hypsos and make it have to settle for 15 mins. I was experiencing exactly what you were describing in terms of weak bass and such. This becomes more apparent on more resolving systems.


----------



## Ichos

"ERCO"


----------



## hypnos1 (Mar 23, 2022)

801evan said:


> Yey. One of the deepest and insightful post in this thread for me and I'm glad to see someone else do the legwork on another trajectory from mine.
> 
> I agree on anything ferrite vs my silver cables but... I'm keeping an open mind on those wavestorms thanks to the return policy and because I've been using clip ons. I'd be using it for my ocxo to cdt so it's a different case and outcome would be unpredictable. I have had similar results on shorter cables with my builds that counters the 1.5m minimum for coax to thwart reflections and much more transparent than coax that is "to spec".
> 
> ...


Yep...the Antipodes crew certainly did a very good job with the DX model IMHO...especially considering it housed everything in the one unit, unlike the later series. It must have been a mammoth effort to therefore banish so much potential for noise of one sort or another. The CX/EX has additional direct Ethernet out, and the Sx and Kx series with even more : S/PDIF; AES3; I2S...but at eyewatering prices alas!

And yes again, although very much a double-edged sword, the long haul of gradual experimenting with system upgrades - especially when DIYing, brings a far greater understanding of what hifi sound is about IMHO...and far more so than reading a plethora of other peoples' opinions, professional or otherwise 
The area of cables and wiring is certainly one where a bit(?!!) of DIY can reap massive rewards...if done carefully and using the best materials possible, plus gleaning as many tips as one can from the Masters, such as Synergistic Research. And at the same time saving a great deal of money!

You spoke re. digital cables 'to spec'...another subject close to my heart. I shudder when supposedly good coax ones still use the mesh wire shield as return, but with a good quality wire for the signal...crazy IMHO! And then there's the stipulation it must be 75 Ohm and nothing else, which is by no means always the case I found (and as mentioned by a guy at Blue Jeans Cables). So long as the figure isn't WAY out, FAR more important are the figures for capacitance and inductance. When I made my own one using separate cables again for signal/return, at first I was a little dismayed that the impedance was a good bit lower than 75 due to my method increasing the distance between the two sets of wires beyond 'spec'...ie. cat 8 Ethernet cable's wires stripped and their foil shields used as conduit for the (Teflon coated) UP-OCC silver (and copper) wires, thereby greatly reducing said inductance/capacitance. But thankfully, it ended up performing far better than my previous one with more traditional construction...lesson learned lol! 

And you found the KLE I plugs lacking?...hmmm...will have a go at doing my thing and remove them entirely, forming the cables' wires as pins instead...got to be better anyway lol!!

Re. XLR hp out from OOR, I changed my very nice Furutech FT-763SM to XLR and there was noticeably more clarity and enhanced stage...much to my surprise. Especially as OOr's 4 pin socket won't of course be sending the full signal hot(+)/cold(-) and return+/- split configuration to my Empy's 4 pin mini XLRs that I _have_ connected thus!!  (But perhaps using the cable's wires as pins once more can take a lot of the credit?!).


801evan said:


> Oh I just had a thought... remember how I said it takes 15 mins to have the Hypsos settle down? When you switch to bypass mode that's enough to disturb the Hypsos and make it have to settle for 15 mins. I was experiencing exactly what you were describing in terms of weak bass and such. This becomes more apparent on more resolving systems.


Very interesting...perhaps I was indeed a bit too hasty. But nevertheless, I still don't think it worth taking the risk...good cans are way too pricey to sacrifice IMO!

Apologies to folks for going off thread, but perhaps is of slight interest to those who delve deeper into 'tweaking' territory in order to (try at least!) maximise the full potential of this exceptionally talented Ferrum combo, and which I'm loving more by the day.


----------



## Gavin C4

Ichos said:


> "ERCO"



It is really exciting to see the third product Erco from Ferrum. I hope Ferrum is able to put the fascinating technology and design of the amp circuit of the OOR and implemented it into their line of products. The amp circuit of the OOR is so good that I should be the new standard for amps. Though the Erco would need some major breakthroughs because they have to fit both the DAC section and AMP section in the same box. It is obviously a difficult task to complete because they have to work with limited space and also work with power allocation and handle distortion. As we know the DAC section is very sensitive to power and distortion from the amp section. Putting both the DAC and AMP circuits together in a box is quite challenging.

 I have already purchased an extra Hypsos power supply before their price hike to await for the Erco. I hope Ferrum can continue to explore their "House" sound and continue to deliver high quality and industry-breaking standards to their products.


----------



## duranxv

Just joined the Ferrum army!

Initial impressions -  Great dynamics and detail, especially in the bass regions.  Slightly better than my Sparkos Aries, but it's definitely a keeper so far. 

24v on the Hypsos is optimal in my opinion.  To my ears at least, the voltage changes are VERY VERY subtle in terms of changing the sound.  I couldn't tell much of a difference between 24v and 30v with both planar and dynamic headphones.

Bypass mode ever so slightly improved the dynamics as well.


----------



## 801evan

duranxv said:


> Just joined the Ferrum army!
> 
> Initial impressions -  Great dynamics and detail, especially in the bass regions.  Slightly better than my Sparkos Aries, but it's definitely a keeper so far.
> 
> ...


Great to hear comparison on the Aries. My Phonitor mod is a poor man's Aries with a bit more control in design. Filtered ifi elite 12v, silver cable , 3x Sparkos pros for Line In, HP out and xfeed.  Aries is just ss360 on line in. And I get crossfeed. It's able to drive Susvara effortlessly with no need for gain over RCA. I'm able to do comparisons with the ifi elite vs hypsos on it and the ifi elite is much much quieter. If 24v is your ideal range then ifi Elite 24v is a good option.


----------



## duranxv

801evan said:


> Great to hear comparison on the Aries. My Phonitor mod is a poor man's Aries with a bit more control in design. Filtered ifi elite 12v, silver cable , 3x Sparkos pros for Line In, HP out and xfeed.  Aries is just ss360 on line in. And I get crossfeed. It's able to drive Susvara effortlessly with no need for gain over RCA. I'm able to do comparisons with the ifi elite vs hypsos on it and the ifi elite is much much quieter. If 24v is your ideal range then ifi Elite 24v is a good option.



I'm actually curious to try the Hypsos with the Aries, but I'll need a different interconnect for it


----------



## 801evan

duranxv said:


> I'm actually curious to try the Hypsos with the Aries, but I'll need a different interconnect for it


But Aries runs on ac mains. You'll plug it in internally?


----------



## duranxv

801evan said:


> But Aries runs on ac mains. You'll plug it in internally?



Haven't actually looked into it to be honest - might be worth a shot but I don't have the technical chops for that, lol.  I wonder if there's any other way


----------



## 801evan (Mar 24, 2022)

duranxv said:


> Haven't actually looked into it to be honest - might be worth a shot but I don't have the technical chops for that, lol.  I wonder if there's any other way


Won't work. You have to deal with invert polarity. The only option really is the phonitor One. Swap the op-amps,  swap the VR with Sparkos, then you can compare it with the OOR running on the Hypsos. I thought ss360 was so good but pros just knock it out of the water. You MAY hit some issues that I'm experiencing where soundstage is so big and it's so fast and transparent that power filtering is required, but that's dependent on how the quality is on their rest of the chain too.  As with any revealing $$$$ component, it will show you the issues of your chain.  Exactly how to read the criticisms of the Dave by some reviewers.


----------



## krude

duranxv said:


> Just joined the Ferrum army!
> 
> Initial impressions -  Great dynamics and detail, especially in the bass regions.  Slightly better than my Sparkos Aries, but it's definitely a keeper so far.
> 
> ...


Try placing hypsos on the left to have Oor further from the thoroidal transformer which is in the left side of Hypsos chasis. At this level little things start to matter  I also found 24v nominal to be the best but I could hear the changes going through voltages. 24v sounds effortless to me.

Which cans are you using out of curiosity?


----------



## LarsMan

801evan said:


> Won't work. You have to deal with invert polarity. The only option really is the phonitor One. Swap the op-amps,  swap the VR with Sparkos, then you can compare it with the OOR running on the Hypsos. I thought ss360 was so good but pros just knock it out of the water. You MAY hit some issues that I'm experiencing where soundstage is so big and it's so fast and transparent that power filtering is required, but that's dependent on how the quality is on their rest of the chain too.  As with any revealing $$$$ component, it will show you the issues of your chain.  Exactly how to read the criticisms of the Dave by some reviewers.


I don't know how you exactly want to read it, but when using a Chord component, the issue of my chain is the Chord component. I just don't happen to care for the overall sound. I happen to like tube sound. I don't happen to like Chord sound.


----------



## duranxv

krude said:


> Try placing hypsos on the left to have Oor further from the thoroidal transformer which is in the left side of Hypsos chasis. At this level little things start to matter  I also found 24v nominal to be the best but I could hear the changes going through voltages. 24v sounds effortless to me.
> 
> Which cans are you using out of curiosity?



Good tip!  Just switched them  

I'm using it with the ZMF VC and the Kennerton Rognir Planar.  Will soon try it with a DCA Stealth when I get it


----------



## Gavin C4 (Mar 27, 2022)

A friend of mine has been using the AK SP2000 as the source, using Astell&Kern and Crystal Cable collaboration interconnect to output a balanced signal through 2.5mm to XLR to the Ferrum OOR and Hypsos stack. It has been a stellar performance as the OOR can handle any source and maintain all the detail and characteristic from the source. The amplification from the OOR, brings the music to another level. The level of scaling of the upfront source is very obvious with the OOR. With the Hypsos and OOR, you will truely appriciate the change in DAC source and the upgrade the DAC source will be very much worth it.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Gavin C4 said:


> A friend of mine has been using the AK SP2000 as the source, using Astell&Kern and Crystal Cable collaboration interconnect to output a balanced signal through 2.5mm to XLR to the Ferrum OOR and Hypsos stack. It has been a stellar performance as the OOR can handle any source and maintain all the detail and characteristic from the source. The amplification from the OOR, brings the music to another level. The level of scaling of the upfront source is very obvious with the OOR. With the Hypsos and OOR, you will truely appriciate the change in DAC source and the upgrade the DAC source will be very much worth it.


This is the configuration and cable I  used as source for the Ferrum Orr + Hypsos at CanJam NYC but using an SP1000.  Same cable.     This was a fantastic sound driving my Susvara


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Mar 28, 2022)

I finally set up my Ferrum Orr + Hypsos last night.  I've been busy with IEMs and DAPs over the past few weeks, so headphones took a back seat.   Anyway, I've got it burning in and listening while that's happening.  

Here is my chain:

Node 2i > M Scaler > TT2 > Orr > Susvara.    I absolutely love what I am hearing.   More so than what I heard in my two demo sessions because it's in my own system and using my own music.    The most noticeable change is in the bass response relative to my Amsandsound Rockwell tube amp.   Deep and textured bass with satisfying sub bass rumble.   I am not feeling like it is missing anything.  Soundstage is huge.    It sounds speaker like to me.   Plenty of power.  Great dynamics and sweet tonality   I finally feel like I have an amp that is getting the most out of my Susvara.


----------



## krude

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I finally set up my Ferrum Orr + Hypsos last night.  I've been busy with IEMs and DAPs over the past few weeks, so headphones took a back seat.   Anyway, I've got it burning in and listening while that's happening.
> 
> Here is my chain:
> 
> Node 2i > M Scaler > TT2 > Orr > Susvara.    I absolutely love what I am hearing.   More so than what I heard in my two demo sessions because it's in my own system and using my own music.    The most noticeable change is in the bass response relative to my Amsandsound Rockwell tube amp.   Deep and textured bass.   I am not feeling like it is missing anything.  Soundstage is huge.    It sounds speaker like to me.   Plenty of power.  Great dynamics and sweet tonality   I finally feel like I have an amp that is getting the most out of my Susvara.


Nice chain! How would you compare Oor with purely TT2 single ended and XLRs out? Chord dacs should pair nicely with Oor balancing out the tonality and playing to each others strengths 👌


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

krude said:


> Nice chain! How would you compare Oor with purely TT2 single ended and XLRs out? Chord dacs should pair nicely with Oor balancing out the tonality and playing to each others strengths 👌


It is a significant upgrade in sound.   Bass is now sublime.  Susvara is actually thumping with impact.   Not to the the level of the 1266TC, but definitely good enough for me and I am a bass head.   Dynamics and sweetness of the tonality and the speaker like experience is what has been taken in  Laser sharp clarity and perfect imaging.    It was so good, I couldn't stop listening at stayed up until 3 am.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Gavin C4 said:


> A friend of mine has been using the AK SP2000 as the source, using Astell&Kern and Crystal Cable collaboration interconnect to output a balanced signal through 2.5mm to XLR to the Ferrum OOR and Hypsos stack. It has been a stellar performance as the OOR can handle any source and maintain all the detail and characteristic from the source. The amplification from the OOR, brings the music to another level. The level of scaling of the upfront source is very obvious with the OOR. With the Hypsos and OOR, you will truely appriciate the change in DAC source and the upgrade the DAC source will be very much worth it.


I forgot to mention.   I am going to pick up a 4.4m to dual 3 pin XLR cable to pair my Cayin N8ii DAP to Orr and if it sounds great, I am going to have a custom pelican case made and use it as a travelling transportable set up for driving Susvara.    The Orr is compact enough for this purpose.

I did connect my N8ii via a 3.5mm to RCA interconnect to my A&S Rockwell and it sounded fantastic driving Susvara.  So, I think it's going to work especially given my experience driving it with SP10000.    I just need to find the right cable.


----------



## Gavin C4

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I finally set up my Ferrum Orr + Hypsos last night.  I've been busy with IEMs and DAPs over the past few weeks, so headphones took a back seat.   Anyway, I've got it burning in and listening while that's happening.
> 
> Here is my chain:
> 
> Node 2i > M Scaler > TT2 > Orr > Susvara.    I absolutely love what I am hearing.   More so than what I heard in my two demo sessions because it's in my own system and using my own music.    The most noticeable change is in the bass response relative to my Amsandsound Rockwell tube amp.   Deep and textured bass with satisfying sub bass rumble.   I am not feeling like it is missing anything.  Soundstage is huge.    It sounds speaker like to me.   Plenty of power.  Great dynamics and sweet tonality   I finally feel like I have an amp that is getting the most out of my Susvara.



Thats is great that you hear a wide sound stage through the Hypsos OOR stack with the Sus. It seems that the sound stage maybe related to your up front source. The OOR will reflect the width exactly as your DAC reflect and not add addition things to the music and be extremely transparent and extremely detailed.

It should have enough power for very high quality bass slam with the Sus as it is one of the most powerfull amp available. Though, it does not add any excessive quantity and maintain a neutral-warmth presentation.



HiFiHawaii808 said:


> This is the configuration and cable I  used as source for the Ferrum Orr + Hypsos at CanJam NYC but using an SP1000.  Same cable.     This was a fantastic sound driving my Susvara



Thats great, the AK and Crystal Cable collab interconect is a very solid choice for those who have a AK device. Crystal Cable is well known in the HiFi sector for the transparency of their inter connect cable and its detail. This collaboration is a limited product run.


----------



## Jonathan Crouch (Mar 28, 2022)

Am I the only one having over heating issues with the Ferrum stack? I have them sitting side by side and my Oor still gets so hot it completely quits producing sound at times. It actually gets hot enough to burn my hand. I haven't messed with the voltage on the Hypsos it's set to its normal settings.


----------



## krude

Jonathan Crouch said:


> Am I the only one having over heating issues with the Ferrum stack? I have them sitting side by side and my amplifier still gets so hot it completely quits producing sound at times. It actually gets hot enough to burn my hand.


That is definitely a fault and needs to be looked at / replaced under warranty. Oor runs mildly warm, nothing like some other amps you can fry an egg on 😂


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

krude said:


> That is definitely a fault and needs to be looked at / replaced under warranty. Oor runs mildly warm, nothing like some other amps you can fry an egg on 😂



I'm not even running it on high gain. It's just set to medium gain for operation.


----------



## Gavin C4

Jonathan Crouch said:


> Am I the only one having over heating issues with the Ferrum stack? I have them sitting side by side and my Oor still gets so hot it completely quits producing sound at times. It actually gets hot enough to burn my hand. I haven't messed with the voltage on the Hypsos it's set to its normal settings.


My OOR runs significantly warmer than the Hypsos, it can be felt using my bare hands. However it is not at the level of burning my hand or stop working. You should contact your dealer or Ferrum immediately for warranty.


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

Gavin C4 said:


> My OOR runs significantly warmer than the Hypsos, it can be felt using my bare hands. However it is not at the level of burning my hand or stop working. You should contact your dealer or Ferrum immediately for warranty.


I do want to point out mine has usually been in use for about 3 hours before this happens. I thought it was just not designed to run for extended periods of time.


----------



## krude

Jonathan Crouch said:


> I do want to point out mine has usually been in use for about 3 hours before this happens. I thought it was just not designed to run for extended periods of time.


It should be able to run pretty much indefinitely without overheating afaik. 3h is nothing.


----------



## LarsMan

Jonathan Crouch said:


> I do want to point out mine has usually been in use for about 3 hours before this happens. I thought it was just not designed to run for extended periods of time.


I keep mine on all day sometimes; as others say, it should be quite warm to the touch, but it won't replace a heater during the winter like some amps do.


----------



## Gavin C4

Jonathan Crouch said:


> I do want to point out mine has usually been in use for about 3 hours before this happens. I thought it was just not designed to run for extended periods of time.


I keep mine turn on for the whole day, no issue at all. You should contact your dealer for assistance.


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

One last thing I want to point out is too is it's the bottom of the unit that gets this hot. Usually my audio will stop after around 3 hours of use, the bottom of the unit is hot enough I can't keep my hand on it, and the top of the unit is not quite as hot as the bottom but hot enough to tell it's a issue.

I usually have to power it down for about 8-10 minutes before I turn it back on then it's alright for a while longer.

I can definitely contact Ferrum or my retailer though and see what I can find out. My Hypsos doesn't run hot at all, even the bottom doesn't get very warm. So if anything I imagine it's just the Oor unit that I have.


----------



## duranxv

Jonathan Crouch said:


> One last thing I want to point out is too is it's the bottom of the unit that gets this hot. Usually my audio will stop after around 3 hours of use, the bottom of the unit is hot enough I can't keep my hand on it, and the top of the unit is not quite as hot as the bottom but hot enough to tell it's a issue.
> 
> I usually have to power it down for about 8-10 minutes before I turn it back on then it's alright for a while longer.
> 
> I can definitely contact Ferrum or my retailer though and see what I can find out. My Hypsos doesn't run hot at all, even the bottom doesn't get very warm. So if anything I imagine it's just the Oor unit that I have.



Definitely a QC issue.   I've been running my Ferrum and  Hypsos for hours on medium gain and there hasn't been any over-heating issues at all


----------



## duranxv

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I finally set up my Ferrum Orr + Hypsos last night.  I've been busy with IEMs and DAPs over the past few weeks, so headphones took a back seat.   Anyway, I've got it burning in and listening while that's happening.
> 
> Here is my chain:
> 
> Node 2i > M Scaler > TT2 > Orr > Susvara.    I absolutely love what I am hearing.   More so than what I heard in my two demo sessions because it's in my own system and using my own music.    The most noticeable change is in the bass response relative to my Amsandsound Rockwell tube amp.   Deep and textured bass with satisfying sub bass rumble.   I am not feeling like it is missing anything.  Soundstage is huge.    It sounds speaker like to me.   Plenty of power.  Great dynamics and sweet tonality   I finally feel like I have an amp that is getting the most out of my Susvara.



Great chain!  Currently I'm using a Holo Spring 3 KTE > Loki Max (I love EQ lol)  > Woo WA22 tube pre  > OOR + Hypsos > Kennerton Rognir Planar.  Absolute bliss.  Sound is damned amazing and I feel the OOR has revealed subtle details in music I didn't notice before, and improved the already phenomenal soundstage and imaging the Rognir has.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

duranxv said:


> Great chain!  Currently I'm using a Holo Spring 3 KTE > Loki Max (I love EQ lol)  > Woo WA22 tube pre  > OOR + Hypsos > Kennerton Rognir Planar.  Absolute bliss.  Sound is damned amazing and I feel the OOR has revealed subtle details in music I didn't notice before, and improved the already phenomenal soundstage and imaging the Rognir has.


I am thinking about getting a tube preamp because I love tubes.


----------



## duranxv

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I am thinking about getting a tube preamp because I love tubes.



Totally worth it.  When you have a good tube pre-amp paired with an excellent solid state like the Ferrum, it really takes the sound to the next level in my opinion


----------



## Sajid Amit

duranxv said:


> Totally worth it.  When you have a good tube pre-amp paired with an excellent solid state like the Ferrum, it really takes the sound to the next level in my opinion


Yup. Agree.

Off my PrimaLuna EVO 400 Preamp, I get a more coherent soundstage that floats in front of me and perceptibly less three blob.

I actually also get more midrange microdynamics and a slightly sweeter treble presentation which works excellently with the Utopia and the Susvara.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Mar 28, 2022)

The Ferrum Hypsos and OOR provides us lots of differemt ways to play round by allowing you to set it to power amp mode. This makes the OOR has lots of optential to scale up with your up front gears. Based on previous discussion and measurements, the power amp mode provides slightly better measurements. Whether such a improve in measurement will provides audible improvements, it really depends on the quality of up front gears. This includes the quality of your dedicated preamp and DAC. I have also tried the power amp mode of the OOR and use my dCS Rossini as preamp volume control. Generally, I felt like I am getting a blacker background and better contrast in the dynamic range.

Since the OOR offers so much optential in scaling, it is really tempted to get a dedicated Hi Fi quality preamp, especially those who are using plannar headphones or have the optential to switch to Hi Fi 2-channel setup. Those who own a plannar will be able to utilize the full potential of the power from the OOR with 8w into 60omhs. While those to have the optential to switch to a hifi 2-channel setup, you can utilize the high quality pre amp for the 2 -channel system in the future. It is really tempted to get a high quality hifi preamp with 256 steps of volume control made by high quality resistors. Generally it will provide wider dynamics, better bass and better micro and macro details.


----------



## Vangelis

LarsMan said:


> After much delay, I just finished my own personal shootout between the Oor stack and the Enleum 23R for Susvaras, now that I've given the Enleum well over 100 hours of break-in time.... Honestly, the Enleum didn't sound discernably different to me than when it had just been broken in for about 50 hours. It's a fine sounding amp, and for some kinds of music it might be preferable, but for me personally with the kind of music I listen to in my system chain, the Oor stack has it all over the Enleum for my Susvaras (haven't comparatively tested my other 2 headphones yet); no value judgements here, the Enleum might be considered a bit smoother sounding, and it has a warm-ish, pleasing sound that I did not find hyper-detailed; might go good with jazz, vocals, etc - in fact, I slightly preferred vocals on the Enleum; you can certainly listen to it for long periods of time.
> 
> The Enleum glides but the Oor stack *rocks,* it was more visceral for me and it gave me _some_ sub-bass on the Susvaras on some reggae tracks that the Enleum did not. But somebody else might think just the opposite - it's all good! - so give a listen yourself if you get a chance - both are enjoyable.
> 
> The Oor stack let me hear all the layers that were in the mixes with the kind of clarity and detail and staging and dynamics and *texture *that I like in my favored genres, rock and reggae, better than the Enleum did for me. I do want to try the Enleum in my 2-channel system just to see how it sounds, but it's likely I'll put it up for sale before long so it can find a more appropriate home. Now I need to do a compare between the Oor stack and the Auris Nirvana with Susvara.


I have noticed many people have sold their Amp-23r after a relatively short audition. The explanation for these quick sales may be the short time provided to age the amplifiers a bit. 

 I’m likely one of the older posters on Headfi. I was fortunate to be employed in the high end audio industry across three decades, unfortunately neither fact has entitled me to great wisdom, however, over the years I’ve watched audio enthusiasts continually sell gear that was not even close to being run in.  Many of my old audio friends and customers never bought into the proper long break-in process, one  explained to me  “only good wine and cheese needs time to develop”, so they sold a lot of their HiFi gear way too early. It’s a pretty common assumption that a DAC, an amplifier, speakers or a headphone’s true performance is realized  after long weekend of play or even over a week. The reality is, most HiFi equipment needs a good month of music play to put meat on the bones of that fat soprano, or perhaps, better put, to flesh out the real nature of any Audio component.  My Amp-23r opened up with a beautiful harmonics, a relaxed ease and a big dynamic bass that just swaggers, however, these qualities were not fully evident for almost a month. 

My most recent DAC a ( Holo May KTE) is still improving daily after nearly three weeks. Many times the second owner is the real winner after the discounted amplifier wakes up under new ownership.


----------



## krude

Vangelis said:


> I have noticed many people have sold their Amp-23r after a relatively short audition. The explanation for these quick sales may be the short time provided to age the amplifiers a bit.
> 
> I’m likely one of the older posters on Headfi. I was fortunate to be employed in the high end audio industry across three decades, unfortunately neither fact has entitled me to great wisdom, however, over the years I’ve watched audio enthusiasts continually sell gear that was not even close to being run in.  Many of my old audio friends and customers never bought into the proper long break-in process, one  explained to me  “only good wine and cheese needs time to develop”, so they sold a lot of their HiFi gear way too early. It’s a pretty common assumption that a DAC, an amplifier, speakers or a headphone’s true performance is realized  after long weekend of play or even over a week. The reality is, most HiFi equipment needs a good month of music play to put meat on the bones of that fat soprano, or perhaps, better put, to flesh out the real nature of any Audio component.  My Amp-23r opened up with a beautiful harmonics, a relaxed ease and a big dynamic bass that just swaggers, however, these qualities were not fully evident for almost a month.
> 
> My most recent DAC a ( Holo May KTE) is still improving daily after nearly three weeks. Many times the second owner is the real winner after the discounted amplifier wakes up under new ownership.


Out of curiosity how many hours would you say is optimal for burn in?


----------



## carboncopy

Vangelis said:


> I have noticed many people have sold their Amp-23r after a relatively short audition. The explanation for these quick sales may be the short time provided to age the amplifiers a bit.
> 
> I’m likely one of the older posters on Headfi. I was fortunate to be employed in the high end audio industry across three decades, unfortunately neither fact has entitled me to great wisdom, however, over the years I’ve watched audio enthusiasts continually sell gear that was not even close to being run in.  Many of my old audio friends and customers never bought into the proper long break-in process, one  explained to me  “only good wine and cheese needs time to develop”, so they sold a lot of their HiFi gear way too early. It’s a pretty common assumption that a DAC, an amplifier, speakers or a headphone’s true performance is realized  after long weekend of play or even over a week. The reality is, most HiFi equipment needs a good month of music play to put meat on the bones of that fat soprano, or perhaps, better put, to flesh out the real nature of any Audio component.  My Amp-23r opened up with a beautiful harmonics, a relaxed ease and a big dynamic bass that just swaggers, however, these qualities were not fully evident for almost a month.
> 
> My most recent DAC a ( Holo May KTE) is still improving daily after nearly three weeks. Many times the second owner is the real winner after the discounted amplifier wakes up under new ownership.


I do hope you are right, because the Enleum is a bit too rounded/soft for my taste. But mine have only a couple of hours runtime till now. Usually the sound gets more relaxed with burn-in, here has to happen to exact opposite...


----------



## LarsMan

Vangelis said:


> I have noticed many people have sold their Amp-23r after a relatively short audition. The explanation for these quick sales may be the short time provided to age the amplifiers a bit.
> 
> I’m likely one of the older posters on Headfi. I was fortunate to be employed in the high end audio industry across three decades, unfortunately neither fact has entitled me to great wisdom, however, over the years I’ve watched audio enthusiasts continually sell gear that was not even close to being run in.  Many of my old audio friends and customers never bought into the proper long break-in process, one  explained to me  “only good wine and cheese needs time to develop”, so they sold a lot of their HiFi gear way too early. It’s a pretty common assumption that a DAC, an amplifier, speakers or a headphone’s true performance is realized  after long weekend of play or even over a week. The reality is, most HiFi equipment needs a good month of music play to put meat on the bones of that fat soprano, or perhaps, better put, to flesh out the real nature of any Audio component.  My Amp-23r opened up with a beautiful harmonics, a relaxed ease and a big dynamic bass that just swaggers, however, these qualities were not fully evident for almost a month.
> 
> My most recent DAC a ( Holo May KTE) is still improving daily after nearly three weeks. Many times the second owner is the real winner after the discounted amplifier wakes up under new ownership.


I'm a firm believer in burn-in myself (my Fritz speakers took about 2 months to sound right!) - at first, I let the 23R go for about 50 hours or so before giving it a first listen, and for me, it did not compare well to the Oor stack. So I let it run (with music coming in and headphones connected) for a couple of weeks and tried it again, and for me, it was not appreciably different. 

When I got my Holo May DAC, I just turned it on and let it stay that way for about 3 weeks before I hooked it up; it sounded great by then! 

After doing more auditioning just this evening, I think I'm going to sell both my Oor stack and my 23R, and also my Auris Nirvana tube headphone amp, 'cause right now, Susvara coming out of my Eddie Current Studio B with a couple of Western Electric 300B tubes, is headphone perfection for me; might have some headphones on the auction block soon, too... All of these amps sounded *great* with the Susvara, don't get me wrong, but this combination just connects; the EC is a great amp to begin with (though not necessarily for Susvara), but upgrading to those WE tubes took it where it needed to be to be its best, and I almost never have to have the volume past 2:00.


----------



## dermott

87 pages and no mentions of how Oor drives the Arya? Especially the V2? Seems like this pairing would be really good, since the way the Oor's sound is described would help to assist some of the deficiencies of the V2. Anyone had an experience with these two together?


----------



## kingoftown1

I don't have an oor, but whoever mentioned the impact of the sr purple fuse in the hypsos was not wrong.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

dermott said:


> 87 pages and no mentions of how Oor drives the Arya? Especially the V2? Seems like this pairing would be really good, since the way the Oor's sound is described would help to assist some of the deficiencies of the V2. Anyone had an experience with these two together?



I sold my Arya, so I cannot comment on it.  But I do have a Hifiman HE1000v2 and I was listening to it yesterday.   I also used to have an HE1000SE which I upgraded to Susvaraa so I no longer have it.    The v2 sounds fantastic with the Orr.  The bass response is the most noticeable improvement along with its vivid treble.   My Susvara are still better overall, but it does offer a more vivid signature than Susvara.    When I had them, I felt that the SE was technically better especially in the bass, but much too bright for me.  The v2 had the better tuning for my preferences so I kept it.   The Orr add richness and depth to the bass that reminded me of the SE bass.

I also listened with Utopia and I can confirm my initial impressions from CanJam Socal when I decided I fell in love with how the Orr and Utopia match so well.   The Utopia gets much more liquid and analog sounding rather than its normal digital metallic self.   Taller stage as well.


----------



## Gavin C4

Totally agree that the Hypsos OOR stack is a very nice pairing with the Utopia. The slightly warm in tonality characteristic of the Hypsos OOR and very well controlled amd details highs made every thing sounded more pleasant. The Hypsos OOR is not a simple neutral amp, it has a very slight tasteful coloration to it. Furthermore, the presentation of the stage is extremely accurate. The size of all instrument and vocals are very well controlled with accurate amount of space between them. This significant increase the resolution of the music.


----------



## Gavin C4

Recently I have intensively tested and compared the Hypsos OOR with the Niimbus US5 Pro. Using Susvara and Utopia. Getting ready for a more indepth impression between the two. Initial impression is the OOR really stand up strong and maybe a sweet spot. Both in terms of tuning and price.


----------



## chesebert

Vangelis said:


> I have noticed many people have sold their Amp-23r after a relatively short audition. The explanation for these quick sales may be the short time provided to age the amplifiers a bit.
> 
> I’m likely one of the older posters on Headfi. I was fortunate to be employed in the high end audio industry across three decades, unfortunately neither fact has entitled me to great wisdom, however, over the years I’ve watched audio enthusiasts continually sell gear that was not even close to being run in.  Many of my old audio friends and customers never bought into the proper long break-in process, one  explained to me  “only good wine and cheese needs time to develop”, so they sold a lot of their HiFi gear way too early. It’s a pretty common assumption that a DAC, an amplifier, speakers or a headphone’s true performance is realized  after long weekend of play or even over a week. The reality is, most HiFi equipment needs a good month of music play to put meat on the bones of that fat soprano, or perhaps, better put, to flesh out the real nature of any Audio component.  My Amp-23r opened up with a beautiful harmonics, a relaxed ease and a big dynamic bass that just swaggers, however, these qualities were not fully evident for almost a month.
> 
> My most recent DAC a ( Holo May KTE) is still improving daily after nearly three weeks. Many times the second owner is the real winner after the discounted amplifier wakes up under new ownership.


Not buying this. I am in hobby for 20yrs and a month burn in is ridiculous. Were you part of a design team at a high end equipment manufacturer (cable and accessories don’t count)?


----------



## LarsMan

chesebert said:


> Not buying this. I am in hobby for 20yrs and a month burn in is ridiculous. Were you part of a design team at a high end equipment manufacturer (cable and accessories don’t count)?


I bought a Herron Audio tube preamp a couple years ago; Keith Herron, who designs and builds his amps, said that would take several weeks to sound close to its best, and it will keep improving for some time after that. I found his statement to be the case.


----------



## chesebert

LarsMan said:


> I bought a Herron Audio tube preamp a couple years ago; Keith Herron, who designs and builds his amps, said that would take several weeks to sound close to its best, and it will keep improving for some time after that. I found his statement to be the case.


Did you play 24/7 for several weeks? We are talking about continuous burn in for a month here, that’s 720 hours.


----------



## buzzlulu

chesebert said:


> Not buying this. I am in hobby for 20yrs and a month burn in is ridiculous. Were you part of a design team at a high end equipment manufacturer (cable and accessories don’t count)?


Sorry however you are wrong. 

25 year Naim,Linn,Chord Company two channel user here. Naim Audio components take a good 3 months to burn in and settle down - as stated by the manufacturer. Lyra cartridges take 150 hours to bed in. Chord Company cables 300 hours. 

You need to get out more


----------



## LarsMan

chesebert said:


> Did you play 24/7 for several weeks? We are talking about continuous burn in for a month here, that’s 720 hours.


 No, didn't run the preamp 24/7 - when I got my Holo May DAC, I let that run 24/7 for 3 weeks before even giving it a listen.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

buzzlulu said:


> Sorry however you are wrong.
> 
> 25 year Naim,Linn,Chord Company two channel user here. Naim Audio components take a good 3 months to burn in and settle down - as stated by the manufacturer. Lyra cartridges take 150 hours to bed in. Chord Company cables 300 hours.
> 
> You need to get out more


This man just said a cable needs to burn in


----------



## chesebert (Mar 29, 2022)

buzzlulu said:


> Sorry however you are wrong.
> 
> 25 year Naim,Linn,Chord Company two channel user here. Naim Audio components take a good 3 months to burn in and settle down - as stated by the manufacturer. Lyra cartridges take 150 hours to bed in. Chord Company cables 300 hours.
> 
> You need to get out more


I was simply saying 720hr (1 month) burn in requirement is ridiculous. 

Also we are talking about solid state headphone amplifier here not big tube ones with huge oil caps.


----------



## paradoxper

chargedcapacitor said:


> This man just said a cable needs to burn in


You do understand audiophiles are zealots, right.


----------



## chesebert

Audiophiles are also neurotic.


----------



## jonathan c

paradoxper said:


> You do understand audiophiles are zealots, right.


There is nothing to understand, everything to accept. What is _is. 🤷🏻‍♂️😉_


----------



## Aetherhole

I posted this in the ERCO thread, but since this involves the OOR, it bears posting in here.  Not sure who out there is using the Ferrum Trifecta yet, but the OOR just came in and…


----------



## Sajid Amit (Mar 29, 2022)

chargedcapacitor said:


> This man just said a cable needs to burn in


This has been around for ages. 🙂

I know people who swear by the fact that a cable sounds terrible without some minimal burn-in.

Cable manufacturers will say that they are burning in their cable before shipping them. I have been at the other end of these conversations.

And then there is this.

https://www.analogueseduction.net/burn-in-devices/nordost-vidar-cable-burn-in-service.html

Someone should get this and report back.

Paul of PS Audio has a video on interconnect burn-in.


----------



## IanB52

kingoftown1 said:


> I don't have an oor, but whoever mentioned the impact of the sr purple fuse in the hypsos was not wrong.


I just put one of the SR Purple fuses in my Hypsos and it sounds great, though usually takes many hours to settle. 

When I got the Oor+Hypsos I felt that it was already so transparent that my usual SR fuses might not accomplish much. Over the weekend a found a used 2 amp orange fuse I had laying around, and it was actually a nice improvement in depth and clarity. 

Then the purple came today and really surprised by how different it sounds compared to the orange. In many ways it is better than orange, more spacious, and stronger bass, but also seems quite colorful. *Almost* like adding a tube input stage. There seems to be a "glow" to the sound now. Very interesting, esp on such a ridiculously transparent amp.


----------



## IanB52

chesebert said:


> Not buying this. I am in hobby for 20yrs and a month burn in is ridiculous. Were you part of a design team at a high end equipment manufacturer (cable and accessories don’t count)?


I had the Amp 23r for close to a month. It did change quite a bit until 300 hours or so (when I stopped paying attention), becoming a little wider and clearer on the top end, and deeper black background. It is what it is, but the Oor+Hypsos was more my taste in the end.


----------



## Gavin C4

Those who wanted to use their headphones and earphones with both the OOR and portable players, and terminated their headphones to 4.4mm Pentagon plug. Effect Audios actually offers a bespoke adapter of your desired cable. From XLR male to 4.4 female. It is very versitile option.


----------



## Sajid Amit (Mar 30, 2022)

Message deleted. Was meant for someone else.


----------



## Gavin C4

The Hypsos OOR actually adds a lot of resolution to the HD6XX.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Gavin C4 said:


> The Hypsos OOR actually adds a lot of resolution to the HD6XX.


Yup. I concur.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Apr 4, 2022)

Impression of the Niimbus US 5 Pro and Ferrum Hypsos OOR. Impression is based on the paring with the Utopia and Susvara.


I will be solely focussing on the *sonic aspect* of the two amps.

The width of the *sound stage* with the US 5 Pro slightly ahead of the OOR. The stage with the US 5 Pro slightly sounded wider to the left and right. Whereas for the depth of the stage, the OOR has a slightly upper hand, some instruments sounded further back at the stage. It may be due to tuning and the blacker background in the OOR, it sounded there are more contrast between black areas and color, this creates a deeper stage. The black background contributes to the presentation of the stage and positioning of instruments on the stage.  The size of all instruments and vocals are very well controlled with an accurate amount of space added between them, as if the resolution is enhanced slightly.



The *tuning and tonality* of the US 5 Pro is very neutral. I really agree with the sonical description that it is a reliable " tool " for music amplification. It does not have much sonical character or coloration to it. It is studio monitor quality neutral, it does not exaggerate your bass, does not add any additional emotion to the vocals, highs are extended and articulated as a *studio monitor reference* signature. It reveals exactly what is given to it from your upper front gear. It is extremely transparent to it point that it makes everything up front counts including your DAC, XLR analog cable, power cable and even your power source. It is a reliable Tool or a professional device for you to evaluate and compare your headphones and DAC. It is the most neutral and well balance amp that I have came across. Perfectly studio monitor neutral and reference quality in all aspects including tonality, details and staging.


The *tuning and tonality* of the Hypsos and OOR stack is exactly as it is discussed on this thread. As most of us here have a general consensus that the tuning of the Hypsos and OOR leans *slightly warmth of neutral*. The higher frequency is also very detailed while being very well controlled in quantity to ensure no excessive hotness or brightness for particular headphones. The tonality characteristic of the Hypsos OOR and tuned with one sole purpose in mind, is to create a musical amp that enables you to enjoy music at the top level of detail and transparency for an extended period of time without fatigue. The Hypsos OOR is not a neutral amp, it has a very slight tasteful coloration to it.


----------



## Aetherhole

Gavin C4 said:


> The Hypsos OOR actually adds a lot of resolution to the HD6XX.



That's a dusty environment!


----------



## eskamobob1

Aetherhole said:


> That's a dusty environment!


Looks downright pristine compared to the bullshittily ridiculous amount of dust that forms in my room daily -.-


----------



## LarsMan

Aetherhole said:


> That's a dusty environment!


That's one disadvantage of black gear over silver!


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Well, my hopes have been somewhat dashed in creating a transportable set up with the Orr.   I got a 3.5mm to RCA cable and my Susvara only sounds okay with all of my DAPs.    N8ii sounds too analytical and bright since tube mode can't be used in line out.    N6ii has better bass, but lacks resolution in the treble.   RS6 has glorious treble but terrible bass.    I have a 4.4mm to dual Xlr cable on order which could make a difference in the bass.   But I am now less excited about it.


----------



## eskamobob1

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Well, my hopes have been somewhat dashed in creating a transportable set up with the Orr.   I got a 3.5mm to RCA cable and my Susvara only sounds okay with all of my DAPs.    N8ii sounds too analytical and bright since tube mode can't be used in line out.    N6ii has better bass, but lacks resolution in the treble.   RS6 has glorious treble but terrible bass.    I have a 4.4mm to dual Xlr cable on order which could make a difference in the bass.   But I am now less excited about it.


you could always give a P6 Pro a try (it has a true LO with a passive pre). P6 Pro -> Oor is what caused me to buy susvara at canjam


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

eskamobob1 said:


> you could always give a P6 Pro a try (it has a true LO with a passive pre). P6 Pro -> Oor is what caused me to buy susvara at canjam


Yeah, it sounded great with SP1000.   I am probably not going to buy a P6 Pro, then buy music since I won't be able to stream with it.    Maybe it's just that my m scaler and TT2 is so much better that I can't unhear it.


----------



## Arkitecc

Gavin C4 said:


> The Hypsos OOR actually adds a lot of resolution to the HD6XX.





Sajid Amit said:


> Yup. I concur.



It's fun to see more mention of this after posting my similar findings hahaha. I was expecting myself to be the only weirdo who'd try a 6 series on a stack like this lmao. I guess that makes three of us so far hahaha.


----------



## jonathan c

Arkitecc said:


> It's fun to see more mention of this after posting my similar findings hahaha. I was expecting myself to be the only weirdo who'd try a 6 series on a stack like this lmao. I guess that makes three of us so far hahaha.


We Senn HD600 fans have always said that the HD600 “scales up” unbelievably with great -> ultra gear. 👍


----------



## Sajid Amit

Arkitecc said:


> It's fun to see more mention of this after posting my similar findings hahaha. I was expecting myself to be the only weirdo who'd try a 6 series on a stack like this lmao. I guess that makes three of us so far hahaha.


I talked about the 650 in my video review of the oor hypsos some time back


----------



## Arkitecc

Sajid Amit said:


> I talked about the 650 in my video review of the oor hypsos some time back


I remember that! I watched that review shortly before mine arrived, fan of your videos!


----------



## Sajid Amit

Arkitecc said:


> I remember that! I watched that review shortly before mine arrived, fan of your videos!


🙏🏻


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

jonathan c said:


> We Senn HD600 fans have always said that the HD600 “scales up” unbelievably with great -> ultra gear. 👍


Sure, but let's not pretend that it makes it comparable to any TOTL headphone.   It turns a $300 headphone into one that sounds like a $750 headphone.


----------



## Arkitecc

jonathan c said:


> We Senn HD600 fans have always said that the HD600 “scales up” unbelievably with great -> ultra gear. 👍


I definitely feel like they're no slouch for sure! I tend to lean on my other cans given the choice, but I wrote elsewhere that there's something about the HD650 that for me at least is like a warm blanket that I know I can always return to if I have to.


----------



## jonathan c

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Sure, but let's not pretend that it makes it comparable to any TOTL headphone.   It turns a $300 headphone into one that sounds like a $750 $1500 headphone.


FTFY…[Reg. TM; bcowen: 2021]


----------



## chesebert (Apr 2, 2022)

If I had to listen to cans without EQ, I would take HD650 over all HD800 variants, all HFMs and most of the LCDs. This is one of the many reasons why many $1k+ headphones are super stupid as they don't perform better than HD650 in every way. Most of them f up some portion of the sound that EQ becomes a must.

Also, that 3 blob soundstage can be fixed with a big amp, drive balanced and an expensive source.


----------



## Aetherhole

chesebert said:


> If I had to listen to cans without EQ, I would take HD650 over all HD800 variants, all HFMs and most of the LCDs. This is one of the many reasons why many $1k+ headphones are super stupid as they don't perform better than HD650 in every way. Most of them f up some portion of the sound that EQ becomes a must.
> 
> Also, that 3 blob soundstage can be fixed with a big amp, drive balanced and an expensive source.



I can definitely appreciate your opinion. The hi fi audio hobby is quite subjective and entirely personal allowing every individual to find what works best for them.  HD650 aren't my favorite; I had them for about 6 months and then changed pretty quickly after that.  Would've been cheaper that way!

Still, I can't fully subscribe to the notion of calling a grouping of headphones super stupid because of the fact that this hobby is so personal.  They can and do perform "better"... to different individuals.  I would take the Arya over the 650 and the 800s.  Sound-wise I'd take many of the Audeze headphones, too.

Performance can go beyond sound, too; fit and finish, along with comfort encompass a pair of headphones performance.  Unfortunately it seems Audeze headphones don't place nice with my head, so their sound performance is irrelevant since I can't seem to wear them for too, too long.


----------



## Arkitecc

Aetherhole said:


> I would take the Arya over the 650


I can definitely agree with this. The Arya Stealth (or my D8k) is inherently a more enjoyable experience for me, but I think the strength of the 650 is that it can hold its own on a level where when I've had to switch from the Arya (or my D8k) to the 650 I was still able to really enjoy myself and it didn't feel exactly like a "downgrade" it was more like I was enjoying a different sound signature for a while and I was cool with that. This is all at least as far as the Ferrum stack is concerned, I might have different feelings on a different stack, so who knows lmao.


----------



## Gavin C4

Lets not forget the Hypsos OOR is such a wonderful amp that can easily handel any headphones out there, from high demanding plannars to high impedance headphones. This amp is so special that makes any headphone sings and release their full potential. The OOR have enough power to make the both plannar up to the Susvara and HD 6XX bass hit and slams.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Gavin C4 said:


> Lets not forget the Hypsos OOR is such a wonderful amp that can easily handel any headphones out there, from high demanding plannars to high impedance headphones. This amp is so special that makes any headphone sings and release their full potential. The OOR have enough power to make the both plannar up to the Susvara and HD 6XX bass hit and slams.


I agree.   I have been cycling through with all of my headphones.   Susvara, Utopia, ZMF Verite Closed, HD800S, HE6, HD600.

It's best with Susvara, Utopia and HE6.   I still prefer the ZMF VC and HD800S with my tube amp, but they still sound great.    Of all the solid state amps I've paired my VC with, this is close to the best.


----------



## skootb

I’ve seen a few posts (probably from the same person) about the ifi elite being better than the Hypsos. Anyone else have an opinion on this? The ifi is cheaper and would probably hide under the desk…


----------



## eskamobob1

skootb said:


> I’ve seen a few posts (probably from the same person) about the ifi elite being better than the Hypsos. Anyone else have an opinion on this? The ifi is cheaper and would probably hide under the desk…


The elite is a few hundred. If you have a hypsos already just buy one on Amazon to try and return if it doesn't


----------



## chargedcapacitor

eskamobob1 said:


> The elite is a few hundred. If you have a hypsos already just buy one on Amazon to try and return if it doesn't


The iFi power supply comes in 15v and 24v I believe, so you would need to make sure you got the higher voltage one.


----------



## iFi audio (Apr 3, 2022)

eskamobob1 said:


> The elite is a few hundred. If you have a hypsos already just buy one on Amazon to try and return if it doesn't



That would be my sincere advice as well. Luckily returns are easy these days!



chargedcapacitor said:


> The iFi power supply comes in 15v and 24v I believe, so you would need to make sure you got the higher voltage one.



There are four versions available: 5V/5.0A, 12V/4.0A, 15V/3.5A and 24V/2.5A. Hope this helps, thanks!


----------



## Tom75

eskamobob1 said:


> you could always give a P6 Pro a try (it has a true LO with a passive pre). P6 Pro -> Oor is what caused me to buy susvara at canjam


Did you use the P6pro with 4.4 to XLR?
I own a P6pro and I'm struggling whether to go for oor/hypsos or erco/hypsos as I do not own a separate DAC at the moment..


----------



## eskamobob1

Tom75 said:


> Did you use the P6pro with 4.4 to XLR?
> I own a P6pro and I'm struggling whether to go for oor/hypsos or erco/hypsos as I do not own a separate DAC at the moment..


Correct. I used a 4.4 to xlr. One thing I will say about the p6p though is that I don't recommend it for use as a USB dac. It is several tiers worse as a USB dac than it is over internal storage (internal storage is the best portable dac I've heard). If you plan to get a better dac later then I think using p6p even over USB makes a lot of sense. If you don't I think it comes down to usecase.


----------



## Gavin C4

Tom75 said:


> Did you use the P6pro with 4.4 to XLR?
> I own a P6pro and I'm struggling whether to go for oor/hypsos or erco/hypsos as I do not own a separate DAC at the moment..


If you are looking at pure amp performance, OOR will be better than the Erco. I would actually sugest you could get the OOR Hypsos stack first , then use the P6pro internal storage of music file, to output a lineout signal to OOR for music play back. Later on, you can get a dedicated DAC, to pair with OOR. A few good choice as OOR users here are using are Holo may , holo spring, dCS DACs. They are all solid choice.


----------



## eskamobob1

Gavin C4 said:


> If you are looking at pure amp performance, OOR will be better than the Erco. I would actually sugest you could get the OOR Hypsos stack first , then use the P6pro internal storage of music file, to output a lineout signal to OOR for music play back. Later on, you can get a dedicated DAC, to pair with OOR. A few good choice as OOR users here are using are Holo may , holo spring, dCS DACs. They are all solid choice.


This comes down to usecase and busget though. If OP doesn't want to spend more than 4k total and need to use their computer as a source it may well be a better idea to go erco. Alternatively it would be super feasible to get erco and then upgrade to oor later and sell erco to fund the dac. Ultimately I think there are a lot of solid options for OP


----------



## EMINENT

Gavin C4 said:


> A few good choice as OOR users here are using are Holo may , holo spring, dCS DACs. They are all solid choice.




Lol. That's like saying these guys are using $3k, $5K and $10k options.


----------



## eskamobob1

EMINENT said:


> Lol. That's like saying these guys are using $3k, $5K and $10k options.


I mean, he has a p6p. Off internal storage its competing in the 1500-2k desktop range being distinctly ahead of stuff oike qutest in wholistic SQ imo


----------



## Benno1988 (Apr 6, 2022)

So the Preamp outputs. They always going hey? Can't have them mute when headphones are plugged in?

EDIT: Manual didn't help. I'm guessing the preouts are always going. RIP.


----------



## SLC1966

Benno1988 said:


> So the Preamp outputs. They always going hey? Can't have them mute when headphones are plugged in?
> 
> EDIT: Manual didn't help. I'm guessing the preouts are always going. RIP.


Preamp does not mute when HPs are plugged in.   I turn my 2ch amp off when I listen to HPs.   And I make sure I unplug HPs when 2ch is on


----------



## Benno1988

SLC1966 said:


> Preamp does not mute when HPs are plugged in.   I turn my 2ch amp off when I listen to HPs.   And I make sure I unplug HPs when 2ch is on


Yeah. I run preamp into the subwoofer, and the sub out to the poweramp. So the sub applies a low pass filter before resending the signal out. Means the sub is always firing.

I don't understand the lack of switch or auto muting. So simple. Anyway. OOR for sale in Australia.


----------



## Gavin C4

I wonder if both the headphone XLR and RCA preamp output are plugged in, will it affect the quality of the sound of the Headphone output? Will some of the power be split to the preamp and affect the sound quality when listening through headphones?


----------



## SLC1966 (Apr 6, 2022)

Deleted.  The info was for the Holo Spring KTE.  Those XLR and RCA inputs can be run at the same time if anyone is interested


----------



## Roasty

i'm headed to the dealers in a few hours to look at the Ferrum stack (amp/power) and may end up taking one home.
i think i'm probably more of a tubes kinda guy, so if anyone can/wants to talk me out of the Ferrum stack, or make some helpful comparisons, please chime in now!
Other than the Woo (WA22), some Feliks audio amps, and a few others (Pendant?) are there any tube amps which would match up to the Ferrum stack, and not cost more? Not too keen on MHA200.. 
Mainly for Stellia and 64audio A12T.. so i suppose power is not too high up on the requirements.


----------



## eskamobob1 (Apr 7, 2022)

Roasty said:


> i'm headed to the dealers in a few hours to look at the Ferrum stack (amp/power) and may end up taking one home.
> i think i'm probably more of a tubes kinda guy, so if anyone can/wants to talk me out of the Ferrum stack, or make some helpful comparisons, please chime in now!
> Other than the Woo (WA22), some Feliks audio amps, and a few others (Pendant?) are there any tube amps which would match up to the Ferrum stack, and not cost more? Not too keen on MHA200..
> Mainly for Stellia and 64audio A12T.. so i suppose power is not too high up on the requirements.


For susvara you would be looking at alnic hpa 5000 XL, pathos inpol ears, pautlauf hpa-100, cavali LG or LF (if you can find one), mogwai SE/Forge, or maybe a woo 5le or something that's super heavily depreciated. At least those would be some or the viable options off the top of my head if you look used

Edit: just saw you said low power. Tons and tons and tons of options if that's the case. If iems are your goal I would personaly skip the Ferrum stack unless you very specificaly want one amp for everything


----------



## Ichos

This is pretty high end stuff but the truth is that there are so many options at this price point.
Anyway this stuck is ultimately precise, transparent, ridiculously dead silent and yet quite musical.
Texture is on the leaner side, layered and articulated.


----------



## krude

Roasty said:


> i'm headed to the dealers in a few hours to look at the Ferrum stack (amp/power) and may end up taking one home.
> i think i'm probably more of a tubes kinda guy, so if anyone can/wants to talk me out of the Ferrum stack, or make some helpful comparisons, please chime in now!
> Other than the Woo (WA22), some Feliks audio amps, and a few others (Pendant?) are there any tube amps which would match up to the Ferrum stack, and not cost more? Not too keen on MHA200..
> Mainly for Stellia and 64audio A12T.. so i suppose power is not too high up on the requirements.


Not gonna talk you out bc on Ferrum you'll drive sensitive iems and Susvara to the fullest.

If you want tubes for Susvara that will be high class ... oooff ... not easy and not cheap. Most HP tube amps won't have enough headroom to do it proper justice. I think you'd be looking at Woo WA33, Feliks Envy (heard good things but not sure how much power it can deliver while having headroom, will test it soon hopefully) and amps of this caliber. I run Cayin HA6a but it barely manages to push Susvara, its doing a good job in the end but always on the edge of it's power output.

Tldr for Susvara, iems and sensitive dd like Stellia Oor is a solid choice.


----------



## Roasty (Apr 8, 2022)

who was I kidding, asking for advice against the ferrum stack in the ferrum thread.. lol!


----------



## krude

Roasty said:


> who was I kidding, asking for advice against the ferrum stack in the ferrum thread.. lol!


How does it perform against WA33?


----------



## OneEyedHito (Apr 8, 2022)

Roasty said:


> who was I kidding, asking for advice against the ferrum stack in the ferrum thread.. lol!


The Ferrum Stack and a Woo WA22 with upgraded tubes is end game for me below $10K USD.  I have since moved both of them on (I have actually owned each 2x 🤦‍♂️) but the combo possibly bests the WA33 Standard with Stock tubes to my ears. Certainly bests all other sub $5K amps very easily again to my ears. 

Thanks to a good friend I do currently have a WA33 Elite in house to try out but am waiting on another set of Susvara.  I will give my faulty memory impressions against the WA22/Ferrum stack soon enough.


----------



## Sajid Amit (Apr 8, 2022)

Roasty said:


> who was I kidding, asking for advice against the ferrum stack in the ferrum thread.. lol!


Wo. Nice photo.

Hope you are enjoying the Ferrum.

The Arya Stealth is also great on the Ferrum Stack (not mine; got it in for a review).


----------



## Sajid Amit

OneEyedHito said:


> The Ferrum Stack and a Woo WA22 with upgraded tubes is end game for me below $10K USD.  I have since moved both of them on (I have actually owned each 2x 🤦‍♂️) but the combo possibly bests the WA33 Standard with Stock tubes to my ears. Certainly bests all other sub $5K amps very easily again to my ears.
> 
> Thanks to a good friend I do currently have a WA33 Elite in house to try out but am waiting on another set of Susvara.  I will give my faulty memory impressions against the WA22/Ferrum stack soon enough.


Agree with all of this.

Also, if we are talking about the same friend, he's an absolute legend, lol.


----------



## OneEyedHito (Apr 8, 2022)

Sajid Amit said:


> Agree with all of this.
> 
> Also, if we are talking about the same friend, he's an absolute legend, lol.


Yes I am and this Diamond of a Gent just sent me a 3ES Elite so that I have a competent amp to power the Shangri-La Sr. he sent me.......


----------



## Benno1988

OneEyedHito said:


> Yes I am and this Diamond of a Gent just sent me a 3ES Elite so that I have a competent amp to power the Shangri-La Sr. he sent me.......


Friend hey. Does he need more friends?


----------



## StevenR296

I'm currently running Audirvana into a Gungnir Multibit to a Quicksilver Headphone Amp via RCA/Burson Soloist 3XP w/Super Charger via XLR. I wish I could blend both of these amps together. I'm looking to end up with only one amp, preferably solid-state, and use my HE1000SE and Vérité Closed for different flavors.

The detail and speed from the Soloist is fantastic, as it's the most premium amp I've heard, but I wish the treble was a bit tamed down and that the whole amp had a little more meat/body to it. The warmth and smoothness of the Quicksilver is enjoyable, but I want more detail and a slightly tighter sound without the hassle of tubes. I'm looking to end up with only one amp, preferably solid-state, blending some of those aspects together. 

Soloist GT and iCan Pro Signature were on my list for a while, but now I have my eye on a Oor/Hypsos stack. From what I've read, detail should be a step above what I've heard, mids should shine more compared to my Soloist, and it's warmer than the Soloist though not as warm as the QS. I don't know where I'm going with this. Maybe I just want a sense of direction. I like to think this stack will be great for my needs. Any thoughts?


----------



## eskamobob1

StevenR296 said:


> I'm currently running Audirvana into a Gungnir Multibit to a Quicksilver Headphone Amp via RCA/Burson Soloist 3XP w/Super Charger via XLR. I wish I could blend both of these amps together. I'm looking to end up with only one amp, preferably solid-state, and use my HE1000SE and Vérité Closed for different flavors.
> 
> The detail and speed from the Soloist is fantastic, as it's the most premium amp I've heard, but I wish the treble was a bit tamed down and that the whole amp had a little more meat/body to it. The warmth and smoothness of the Quicksilver is enjoyable, but I want more detail and a slightly tighter sound without the hassle of tubes. I'm looking to end up with only one amp, preferably solid-state, blending some of those aspects together.
> 
> Soloist GT and iCan Pro Signature were on my list for a while, but now I have my eye on a Oor/Hypsos stack. From what I've read, detail should be a step above what I've heard, mids should shine more compared to my Soloist, and it's warmer than the Soloist though not as warm as the QS. I don't know where I'm going with this. Maybe I just want a sense of direction. I like to think this stack will be great for my needs. Any thoughts?


So something I will say is that you just won't get a tube sound without tubes. Even the closest ou can get won't quote be there. I think the Ferrum is a great stack but I'm not entierly sure it will fit your needs. Honestly, have you thought about changing dacs? The quick silver should be able to get quote a bit clearer and quicker on a differently voiced dac. It may be worth snagging something like a d1se or x18 just to give it a shot before diving that deep into amps.


----------



## krude

StevenR296 said:


> I'm currently running Audirvana into a Gungnir Multibit to a Quicksilver Headphone Amp via RCA/Burson Soloist 3XP w/Super Charger via XLR. I wish I could blend both of these amps together. I'm looking to end up with only one amp, preferably solid-state, and use my HE1000SE and Vérité Closed for different flavors.
> 
> The detail and speed from the Soloist is fantastic, as it's the most premium amp I've heard, but I wish the treble was a bit tamed down and that the whole amp had a little more meat/body to it. The warmth and smoothness of the Quicksilver is enjoyable, but I want more detail and a slightly tighter sound without the hassle of tubes. I'm looking to end up with only one amp, preferably solid-state, blending some of those aspects together.
> 
> Soloist GT and iCan Pro Signature were on my list for a while, but now I have my eye on a Oor/Hypsos stack. From what I've read, detail should be a step above what I've heard, mids should shine more compared to my Soloist, and it's warmer than the Soloist though not as warm as the QS. I don't know where I'm going with this. Maybe I just want a sense of direction. I like to think this stack will be great for my needs. Any thoughts?


If I were you I would consider making sure your power is sorted, Burson amps get harsh with less than optimal power, roll op amps (try Sparkos, Classics maybe some other types), maybe change the dac to warmer r2r like denafrips ...

All of that said Ferrum stack will give you what you're after I think, albeit at higher cost.


----------



## tawmizzzz

Ferrum stack hype is no joke! Even while I wait for my Spring 3, OOR + Hypsos exhibits a slightly more _musical _synergy with my LCD5 (chrono EQ) versus the 23R. Enleum's transients seem a bit tighter with more control in the bass, meanwhile Ferrum has more upper-mid smoothness/warmth in the mids to really help vocals sound more natural. Timbre sounds slightly better off Ferrum, with more crispness (while being smooth) in the treble and brilliance region. 23R is darker with a slightly lower noise floor. I hear more detail in the Ferrum stack, meanwhile staging is relatively close. Both are excellent.

On the other hand, I can see why several folks tend to prefer 23R with the Susvara over LCD5, as LCD still leans slightly clinical with that synergy to my ears. As for disclaimers, both units are not fully-burned in, and I still need to dabble with a balanced XLR cable for LCD on the Ferrum. I will also reincorporate HQplayer once Spring 3 arrives to give Susvara a final shake, as I think it is picking up a lot of the digital'esque elements of the iDSD Pro Signature DAC. 

I still prefer LCD5 (EQ'd) over Susvara on Ferrum within this chain---timbre sounds more organic, there is stronger micro and macro dynamics, and more emotion in the mids due to upper-mid elevation. Not only do percussive instruments sound more realistic with excellent heft, but stringed instruments are also more vivid. Ferrum is detailed AF but boy does it do it in a smooth way with a little help from parametric equalizing. 

Once Spring 3 arrives hopefully late next week, I'll put together a small shootout between:

1. LCD5 vs Susvara via:
a. 23R + iDSD Pro Signature vs 23R + Holo Audio Spring 3
b. Ferrum + iDSD Pro Signature vs Ferrum + Spring 3
c. Wells Audio Dragon Level 2 + iDSD Pro Signature vs Wells Audio Dragon L2 + Spring 3


----------



## chargedcapacitor

tawmizzzz said:


> Ferrum stack hype is no joke! Even while I wait for my Spring 3, OOR + Hypsos exhibits a slightly more _musical _synergy with my LCD5 (chrono EQ) versus the 23R. Enleum's transients seem a bit tighter with more control in the bass, meanwhile Ferrum has more upper-mid smoothness/warmth in the mids to really help vocals sound more natural. Timbre sounds slightly better off Ferrum, with more crispness (while being smooth) in the treble and brilliance region. 23R is darker with a slightly lower noise floor. I hear more detail in the Ferrum stack, meanwhile staging is relatively close. Both are excellent.
> 
> On the other hand, I can see why several folks tend to prefer 23R with the Susvara over LCD5, as LCD still leans slightly clinical with that synergy to my ears. As for disclaimers, both units are not fully-burned in, and I still need to dabble with a balanced XLR cable for LCD on the Ferrum. I will also reincorporate HQplayer once Spring 3 arrives to give Susvara a final shake, as I think it is picking up a lot of the digital'esque elements of the iDSD Pro Signature DAC.
> 
> ...


I agree on your point about the LCD-5 sounding more organic (with EQ), especially on percussion and strings. That being said, on some tracks the Susvara is just so much more pleasantly tuned. But at the same time, sometimes I'll get an itch for rock that only an Audeze can scratch!


----------



## LarsMan

StevenR296 said:


> I'm currently running Audirvana into a Gungnir Multibit to a Quicksilver Headphone Amp via RCA/Burson Soloist 3XP w/Super Charger via XLR. I wish I could blend both of these amps together. I'm looking to end up with only one amp, preferably solid-state, and use my HE1000SE and Vérité Closed for different flavors.
> 
> The detail and speed from the Soloist is fantastic, as it's the most premium amp I've heard, but I wish the treble was a bit tamed down and that the whole amp had a little more meat/body to it. The warmth and smoothness of the Quicksilver is enjoyable, but I want more detail and a slightly tighter sound without the hassle of tubes. I'm looking to end up with only one amp, preferably solid-state, blending some of those aspects together.
> 
> Soloist GT and iCan Pro Signature were on my list for a while, but now I have my eye on a Oor/Hypsos stack. From what I've read, detail should be a step above what I've heard, mids should shine more compared to my Soloist, and it's warmer than the Soloist though not as warm as the QS. I don't know where I'm going with this. Maybe I just want a sense of direction. I like to think this stack will be great for my needs. Any thoughts?


I've had both the QS and the Ferrum Stack, and yes the QS has lovely warmth and smoothness, but it will not give you the detail of the Ferrum stack. And while the Ferrum stack has more tube-ish qualities than say, Chord gear, it won't sound much of anything like the QS; as some others have noted, there are certain tube qualities you'll only get from tubes.


----------



## LarsMan

tawmizzzz said:


> Ferrum stack hype is no joke! Even while I wait for my Spring 3, OOR + Hypsos exhibits a slightly more _musical _synergy with my LCD5 (chrono EQ) versus the 23R. Enleum's transients seem a bit tighter with more control in the bass, meanwhile Ferrum has more upper-mid smoothness/warmth in the mids to really help vocals sound more natural. Timbre sounds slightly better off Ferrum, with more crispness (while being smooth) in the treble and brilliance region. 23R is darker with a slightly lower noise floor. I hear more detail in the Ferrum stack, meanwhile staging is relatively close. Both are excellent.
> 
> On the other hand, I can see why several folks tend to prefer 23R with the Susvara over LCD5, as LCD still leans slightly clinical with that synergy to my ears. As for disclaimers, both units are not fully-burned in, and I still need to dabble with a balanced XLR cable for LCD on the Ferrum. I will also reincorporate HQplayer once Spring 3 arrives to give Susvara a final shake, as I think it is picking up a lot of the digital'esque elements of the iDSD Pro Signature DAC.
> 
> ...


Nice setup! I've got both the Ferrum stack and the 23R as well , and they're both on the selling block. Great sounding amps, the only thing I've got against either of 'em is they're not tube, and I think after trying Chord stuff, and trying these amps (which I prefer to Chord), I've decided I'm just a tube fellow when it comes to headphones. I'm even selling one of my tube headphone amps (Auris Nirvana) - keeping Eddie Current Studio B with WE 300B tubes, and have a DNA Stratus coming a few months down the line...


----------



## tawmizzzz

LarsMan said:


> Nice setup! I've got both the Ferrum stack and the 23R as well , and they're both on the selling block. Great sounding amps, the only thing I've got against either of 'em is they're not tube, and I think after trying Chord stuff, and trying these amps (which I prefer to Chord), I've decided I'm just a tube fellow when it comes to headphones. I'm even selling one of my tube headphone amps (Auris Nirvana) - keeping Eddie Current Studio B with WE 300B tubes, and have a DNA Stratus coming a few months down the line...


Heard only amazing things about the DNA Stratus-looking forward to your impressions. I feel you on the tubes, I'm new to the desktop world (after shifting through all the summit-fi IEMs/DAPs), but even the hybrid modest Wells Audio Dragon is more musical than these excellent SSs. But the Ferrum's detail, speed and brilliance compliments the much thicker, warmer and liquid-y Dragon.

Looking forward to trying more tubes down the line


----------



## IanB52

tawmizzzz said:


> Ferrum stack hype is no joke! Even while I wait for my Spring 3, OOR + Hypsos exhibits a slightly more _musical _synergy with my LCD5 (chrono EQ) versus the 23R. Enleum's transients seem a bit tighter with more control in the bass, meanwhile Ferrum has more upper-mid smoothness/warmth in the mids to really help vocals sound more natural. Timbre sounds slightly better off Ferrum, with more crispness (while being smooth) in the treble and brilliance region. 23R is darker with a slightly lower noise floor. I hear more detail in the Ferrum stack, meanwhile staging is relatively close. Both are excellent.
> 
> On the other hand, I can see why several folks tend to prefer 23R with the Susvara over LCD5, as LCD still leans slightly clinical with that synergy to my ears. As for disclaimers, both units are not fully-burned in, and I still need to dabble with a balanced XLR cable for LCD on the Ferrum. I will also reincorporate HQplayer once Spring 3 arrives to give Susvara a final shake, as I think it is picking up a lot of the digital'esque elements of the iDSD Pro Signature DAC.
> 
> ...


It makes a lot of sense to me that the LCD-5 would synergize well with Oor+Hypsos because how good it sounds with Diana TC. It really rocks with punchy headphones and helps even out shouty midrange.

I have a Susvara now, but returned the Enleum so I can't compare them head to head, but it does seem Susvara needs the extra tone color and bounce from the Enleum. To be honest I'm thinking of jumping ship for a Meze Elite as Susvara is lacking some excitement and richness.


----------



## StevenR296

eskamobob1 said:


> So something I will say is that you just won't get a tube sound without tubes. Even the closest ou can get won't quote be there. I think the Ferrum is a great stack but I'm not entierly sure it will fit your needs. Honestly, have you thought about changing dacs? The quick silver should be able to get quote a bit clearer and quicker on a differently voiced dac. It may be worth snagging something like a d1se or x18 just to give it a shot before diving that deep into amps.



Thank you for your reply! That makes sense. The only non-multibit DAC I've used is an Arcam irDAC-II but that was with a speaker setup. Modi Multibit to Bifrost 2 to Gungnir Multibit all had noticeable, pleasing improvements to my ears so I've just stayed on that path. The QS was added last to dip my toes into tubes and be a contrasting/complimenting sound to the Soloist. It's enjoyable for a different sound, and maybe I'll hold onto it, but I have it in my head that I'm wanting more performance out of the Soloist, which is still my main amp.

I appreciate the convenience, transparency, and detail of solid-state. If I stuck with the tube route, a more analytical DAC makes sense, but maybe @krude is right. I should try rolling the op-amps and see how I feel then.

Vs the 3XP w/super Charger and stock op-amps, I'm after a tad smoother treble, more pleasing upper mids, more detail, separation, dynamics, a little more body, and more natural timbre/tonality. Everything I'm reading about the Ferrum stack sounds so great, but maybe rolling op-amps will help bridge the gap as far as tonality. I'm going to keep my eye on this forum because I'm still tempted.


----------



## Roasty

krude said:


> How does it perform against WA33?



just some preliminary thoughts. it's a slightly different kind of sound.. the wa33 just sounds "bigger" overall, and has more low end bloom whereas the ferrum has noticeably tighter bass (wa33 with 300b 2.5v tubes, may try kr 2a3 tubes tomorrow). background darkness I give to the Ferrum, easily. Interestingly, I find the ferrum (very slightly) rolled off at the top compared to the wa33. Mids are a toss up; maybe slight nod to the wa33 as it feels like the mids and highs there scale up in tandem as the volume increases, allowing for more volume and giving that "bigger" sensation. 

I have not yet tried to play with the hypsos voltage. I assume people usually keep the power settings (4tsd and spread spectrum) ON?


----------



## LarsMan

Roasty said:


> just some preliminary thoughts. it's a slightly different kind of sound.. the wa33 just sounds "bigger" overall, and has more low end bloom whereas the ferrum has noticeably tighter bass (wa33 with 300b 2.5v tubes, may try kr 2a3 tubes tomorrow). background darkness I give to the Ferrum, easily. Interestingly, I find the ferrum (very slightly) rolled off at the top compared to the wa33. Mids are a toss up; maybe slight nod to the wa33 as it feels like the mids and highs there scale up in tandem as the volume increases, allowing for more volume and giving that "bigger" sensation.
> 
> I have not yet tried to play with the hypsos voltage. I assume people usually keep the power settings (4tsd and spread spectrum) ON?


Which 300B tubes you use can make a really big difference. My Eddie Current sounds almost like a different amp with WE 300B tubes than it did with Gold Lion or JJ tubes... Yes, they're ridiculously expensive, but worth it if you can swing it. I can use this amp with Susvaras now - it did not sound very good with those with the other 300B tubes..


----------



## kingoftown1

@Roasty try turning spread spectrum off.  It's at least worth a comparison.


----------



## EMINENT

Ichos said:


> This is pretty high end stuff but the truth is that there are so many options at this price point.
> Anyway this stuck is ultimately precise, transparent, ridiculously dead silent and yet quite musical.
> Texture is on the leaner side, layered and articulated.



Anyone know why the logo colors are different on both?


----------



## IanB52

EMINENT said:


> Anyone know why the logo colors are different on both?


They are on my Hypsos and Oor. It could be dimmer settings. I didn't investigate too deeply.


----------



## Gavin C4

EMINENT said:


> Anyone know why the logo colors are different on both?


At the back of the Hypsos and OOR there are a turning wheel for you to adjust the brightness of the Fe logo.


----------



## Roasty

kingoftown1 said:


> @Roasty try turning spread spectrum off.  It's at least worth a comparison.



I just tried this but I can't hear a difference. is there supposed to be an audible change?


----------



## Sajid Amit

OneEyedHito said:


> Yes I am and this Diamond of a Gent just sent me a 3ES Elite so that I have a competent amp to power the Shangri-La Sr. he sent me.......


Awesome. Look forward to your impressions.

And a shout out to @sa11297


----------



## Sajid Amit

tawmizzzz said:


> Ferrum stack hype is no joke! Even while I wait for my Spring 3, OOR + Hypsos exhibits a slightly more _musical _synergy with my LCD5 (chrono EQ) versus the 23R. Enleum's transients seem a bit tighter with more control in the bass, meanwhile Ferrum has more upper-mid smoothness/warmth in the mids to really help vocals sound more natural. Timbre sounds slightly better off Ferrum, with more crispness (while being smooth) in the treble and brilliance region. 23R is darker with a slightly lower noise floor. I hear more detail in the Ferrum stack, meanwhile staging is relatively close. Both are excellent.
> 
> On the other hand, I can see why several folks tend to prefer 23R with the Susvara over LCD5, as LCD still leans slightly clinical with that synergy to my ears. As for disclaimers, both units are not fully-burned in, and I still need to dabble with a balanced XLR cable for LCD on the Ferrum. I will also reincorporate HQplayer once Spring 3 arrives to give Susvara a final shake, as I think it is picking up a lot of the digital'esque elements of the iDSD Pro Signature DAC.
> 
> ...


Fantastic.

Would also be good to get an A/B between Spring 3 and the iFi DAC.

Sometimes, I feel like I should have a burr brown DAC in my stable. The previous version of the iFi pro sig worked so well with my HD800S.


----------



## Sajid Amit

IanB52 said:


> It makes a lot of sense to me that the LCD-5 would synergize well with Oor+Hypsos because how good it sounds with Diana TC. It really rocks with punchy headphones and helps even out shouty midrange.
> 
> I have a Susvara now, but returned the Enleum so I can't compare them head to head, but it does seem Susvara needs the extra tone color and bounce from the Enleum. To be honest I'm thinking of jumping ship for a Meze Elite as Susvara is lacking some excitement and richness.


Have you tried the Elite?


----------



## Ichos

EMINENT said:


> Anyone know why the logo colors are different on both?


1. Bad photography
2. Yes they are indeed slightly different
3. You can use the dimmer on the ERCO to match the color, something that I didn't for the photo.


----------



## Roasty

Well here is an interesting finding. 

Ferrum Hypsos/Oor as preamp into Kinki Studio EX-M7 power amp. I get an audible high pitched whine and faint static when no music is playing. Zynsonix speaker tap adaptor box on bypass/0dB attenuation. if I turn on attenuation/-17dB gain, it eliminates the whine/static. 

however, with a Primaluna Evo 400 preamplifier, even with Zynsonix box on bypass/0dB attenuation, I get a clean black background.. 

does this mean the Primaluna pre has "quieter" circuitry (despite itself having +10dB gain)?


----------



## Sajid Amit

Roasty said:


> Well here is an interesting finding.
> 
> Ferrum Hypsos/Oor as preamp into Kinki Studio EX-M7 power amp. I get an audible high pitched whine and faint static when no music is playing. Zynsonix speaker tap adaptor box on bypass/0dB attenuation. if I turn on attenuation/-17dB gain, it eliminates the whine/static.
> 
> ...


Apparently the Dutch Engineer and his team (not to mention Kevin Deal) went out of their way to build a quiter circuitry for the EVO 400. They had sent me a white paper on this which I had promptly misplaced. 

The EVO 400 comes into its own on speaker setups, which is an obvious point of course. But I wanted to experience it with speakers recently so did that.

Also, the upgrade tubes you had me get, is a nice change to the sound @Roasty


----------



## Roasty

Sajid Amit said:


> Apparently the Dutch Engineer and his team (not to mention Kevin Deal) went out of their way to build a quiter circuitry for the EVO 400. They had sent me a white paper on this which I had promptly misplaced.
> 
> The EVO 400 comes into its own on speaker setups, which is an obvious point of course. But I wanted to experience it with speakers recently so did that.
> 
> Also, the upgrade tubes you had me get, is a nice change to the sound @Roasty



the Evo 400 pre is one of my favourite components. give the new tubes some time to open up. they're a relatively cheap mod and I find them better sounding than the stock tubes. the only other 12au7 I really wanna try are the ones from Cifte. 

can't say I'm not a little bit disappointed with the ferrum/kinki combo. perhaps it is an issue with the power amp instead. I'll see if I can source another power amp to try.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Roasty said:


> the Evo 400 pre is one of my favourite components. give the new tubes some time to open up. they're a relatively cheap mod and I find them better sounding than the stock tubes. the only other 12au7 I really wanna try are the ones from Cifte.
> 
> can't say I'm not a little bit disappointed with the ferrum/kinki combo. perhaps it is an issue with the power amp instead. I'll see if I can source another power amp to try.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

Roasty said:


> Well here is an interesting finding.
> 
> Ferrum Hypsos/Oor as preamp into Kinki Studio EX-M7 power amp. I get an audible high pitched whine and faint static when no music is playing. Zynsonix speaker tap adaptor box on bypass/0dB attenuation. if I turn on attenuation/-17dB gain, it eliminates the whine/static.
> 
> ...


The pre-amp on the OOR measures extremely well, with a super low noise floor. It should be well below audibility.a


----------



## IanB52

Sajid Amit said:


> Have you tried the Elite?


No. I own an Empyrean. My expectation here is that the Elite has a similar tuning to Susvara, less resolution, but also a more engaging midrange and bass, maybe more width, and less perceived weight.


----------



## IanB52

Roasty said:


> the Evo 400 pre is one of my favourite components. give the new tubes some time to open up. they're a relatively cheap mod and I find them better sounding than the stock tubes. the only other 12au7 I really wanna try are the ones from Cifte.
> 
> can't say I'm not a little bit disappointed with the ferrum/kinki combo. perhaps it is an issue with the power amp instead. I'll see if I can source another power amp to try.


I've a little confused. You have an excellent preamp and power amp, but you are using a headphone amp as preamp instead? It seems like quite a few people are doing the opposite, using the Oor as the power amp.


----------



## eskamobob1

IanB52 said:


> No. I own an Empyrean. My expectation here is that the Elite has a similar tuning to Susvara, less resolution, but also a more engaging midrange and bass, maybe more width, and less perceived weight.



you pegged this one fairly wrong IMO. The elite is a slightly brighter tilted empy with better clarity and separation (separation as in if you have 2 things at 2 o'clock how well does it separate depth between the two). That said, elite is also fairly source independent (not as much as empy, but still more so than most other cans in the price). IMO elite is kind of a brighter tilted W shape. Susvara on the other hand is much more even and smooth harman with a very slight mid recession/thinness (but good mid sweetness).


----------



## Roasty

IanB52 said:


> I've a little confused. You have an excellent preamp and power amp, but you are using a headphone amp as preamp instead? It seems like quite a few people are doing the opposite, using the Oor as the power amp.



just trying it out. curiosity runs high when bored on a weekend.


----------



## IanB52

eskamobob1 said:


> you pegged this one fairly wrong IMO. The elite is a slightly brighter tilted empy with better clarity and separation (separation as in if you have 2 things at 2 o'clock how well does it separate depth between the two). That said, elite is also fairly source independent (not as much as empy, but still more so than most other cans in the price). IMO elite is kind of a brighter tilted W shape. Susvara on the other hand is much more even and smooth harman with a very slight mid recession/thinness (but good mid sweetness).


On the plot the Elite looks like a Harman curve, not that I'm crazy about that sound. I at least trust that Meze will sound pleasant, though in many respects OG Empyrean is a long way from Susvara. The thin/recessed vocal thing and soft bass/midrange isn't so much to my taste, even if Susvara performs technically better.


----------



## eskamobob1

IanB52 said:


> On the plot the Elite looks like a Harman curve, not that I'm crazy about that sound. I at least trust that Meze will sound pleasant, though in many respects OG Empyrean is a long way from Susvara. The thin/recessed vocal thing and soft bass/midrange isn't so much to my taste, even if Susvara performs technically better.


You are rembering the graphs very well. The unevenness of elite as well as the extra upper treble energy play a big role in presentation and sound signature.


----------



## cglin222

tawmizzzz said:


> Ferrum stack hype is no joke! Even while I wait for my Spring 3, OOR + Hypsos exhibits a slightly more _musical _synergy with my LCD5 (chrono EQ) versus the 23R. Enleum's transients seem a bit tighter with more control in the bass, meanwhile Ferrum has more upper-mid smoothness/warmth in the mids to really help vocals sound more natural. Timbre sounds slightly better off Ferrum, with more crispness (while being smooth) in the treble and brilliance region. 23R is darker with a slightly lower noise floor. I hear more detail in the Ferrum stack, meanwhile staging is relatively close. Both are excellent.
> 
> On the other hand, I can see why several folks tend to prefer 23R with the Susvara over LCD5, as LCD still leans slightly clinical with that synergy to my ears. As for disclaimers, both units are not fully-burned in, and I still need to dabble with a balanced XLR cable for LCD on the Ferrum. I will also reincorporate HQplayer once Spring 3 arrives to give Susvara a final shake, as I think it is picking up a lot of the digital'esque elements of the iDSD Pro Signature DAC.
> 
> ...


Really wanted to know oor vs ifi ican pro signature 
Deciding between the two
🙏


----------



## Gavin C4 (Apr 10, 2022)

Imo, most preamp function on a headphone amp is just a free feature. I guess one would get the most out of the Hypsos. OOR as a power amp mode or headphone amp. If you want a preamp, I suggest a well build  dedicated tube preamp or relay preamp of your choice, instead of using a preamp from a headphones amp.

The there are lots of component required for a well built preamp of you look at those Hifi preamps that people use for their speaker setup. Some well built preamps such as Soulnote P3 and Gryphons Pandora Preamp are good examples of relay preamp of 0.5 db per step without any clicking noise.

Whereas lots of preamp from headphone amps are just part of the volume nob... A free feature that is just there. Even though measurements from the OOR preamp output is extremely well. I may only use it if I need to get active speakers.


----------



## mumin

Does here anyone uses the OOR / Hypsos stack with a TT2 and LCD4 by any chance ? If so, whats your experience ? 

Or the TT2 as the dac / amp with the stack ?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

godmax said:


> After their first product the HYPSOS power supply, it seems like the HEM brand will also enter the headphone amplifier market soon:
> 
> *Ferrum OOR*
> 
> ...



What do I think? It looks like they used the Monoprice THX housing


----------



## IanB52

gimmeheadroom said:


> What do I think? It looks like they used the Monoprice THX housing


Seems to me it is Mytek Brooklyn housing with different casework. Which makes sense since they build them. Even the same fuse compartment.


----------



## chargedcapacitor (Apr 10, 2022)

cglin222 said:


> Really wanted to know oor vs ifi ican pro signature
> Deciding between the two
> 🙏






I'll be spending the rest of the day testing that, along with a few other amps. I've got my work cut out!

What headphone would you be pairing them with?


----------



## Tom75

Hi.
I just purchased a Cayin N8ii.
So the question is again, whether it'd make sense to use the N8ii wirh Rohm DACs via 4.4 to XLR for an oor/hypsos stack instead of purchasing a further separate DAC...


----------



## Benno1988

chargedcapacitor said:


> I'll be spending the rest of the day testing that, along with a few other amps. I've got my work cut out!
> 
> What headphone would you be them with?


LCD5 please !


----------



## Gavin C4 (Apr 10, 2022)

With my dCS Rossini DAC setting it as output 2v to the Ferrum OOR at high gain. Volume nob is usually at 12 or 1 oclock.

However, to unlease the OOR full potential, I prefer to use the OOR in power amp mode. That output 8w power at 60 ohms. I am using the Rossini DAC as digital preamp. When listening to most modern music, the DAC can be set to 2v output and -15 db to -0 db for most listening. If I am listening to some old classical recording, that have a lower volume, I will need to set the dCS DAC to output at 6v power to the OOR.

Those who have a DAC that can contol volume such as topping D90 etc will be able to use the OOR in power amp mode and get relative good results.

Difinitly prefer Susvara in OOR power amp mode.


----------



## chargedcapacitor (Apr 10, 2022)

Benno1988 said:


> LCD5 please !


One thing I've noticed is that the Signature and even the APP have more headroom than the OOR, despite have a lower power rating.


----------



## Benno1988

chargedcapacitor said:


> One thing I've noticed is that the Signature and even the APP have more headroom than the OOR, despite have a lower power rating.


Isn't the iCan 14W?


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Tom75 said:


> Hi.
> I just purchased a Cayin N8ii.
> So the question is again, whether it'd make sense to use the N8ii wirh Rohm DACs via 4.4 to XLR for an oor/hypsos stack instead of purchasing a further separate DAC...



I would get a desktop DAC.    I pair the N8ii with Orr and it is okay, but not even close to my Chord Hugo TT2 and M Scaler.


----------



## Sajid Amit

chargedcapacitor said:


> One thing I've noticed is that the Signature and even the APP have more headroom than the OOR, despite have a lower power rating.


Hey man, have you been A/B-ing the Signature and the OOR? I am curious about the Signature...


----------



## Gavin C4

Tom75 said:


> Hi.
> I just purchased a Cayin N8ii.
> So the question is again, whether it'd make sense to use the N8ii wirh Rohm DACs via 4.4 to XLR for an oor/hypsos stack instead of purchasing a further separate DAC...



For desktop setup, it would be best to use desktop DACs. Portable players as source output are only temporary solutions. There are lots of solid DACs discussed here pairing with the OOR. This includes Holo Spring, Holo May, Chord DACs and also dCS Dacs. 

Portable player usually have less detail or a smaller and enclosed sound stage compared to full size DACs.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

Sajid Amit said:


> Hey man, have you been A/B-ing the Signature and the OOR? I am curious about the Signature...


The Signature is about ~4W into 60 ohm, whereas the OOR is 8W into 60 ohm.

I have been A/B comparing the two for a while (by volume matching at 1000hz sine tone), but I am still trying to wrap my head around the two. It seems like the Sig is a bit more vocal / mid forward than the OOR. Both seem to handle bass and dynamics quite well, although there might be a _slight _edge to the OOR. I do love the XBass on the sig though, it really shines in certain music. The 3d feature doesn't work well as an amplifier feature (it actually lowers the volume by several dB when enabled), but works amazingly as a pre-amp feature (and does not lower the volume when enabled). The XBass also works in pre-amp mode.

I think if I were to choose between the two for the susvara, I would pic the OOR. Since I use the RME Adi as a dac / tone control, I am able to EQ the bass to approximate the XBass function. This makes the sig a bit redundant, but if I did not have the RME I would likely chose the sig. I'll keep both around a bit longer, so I can have more time to wrap my head around them.


----------



## eskamobob1

Benno1988 said:


> Isn't the iCan 14W?


At how many ohms though?


----------



## Benno1988

eskamobob1 said:


> At how many ohms though?


Yeah 16ohm. Thought it was at 32.

Can you test the background / noise floor on both?


----------



## Gavin C4 (Apr 11, 2022)

Headphone amps being able to output 4w  to 8w at 60 ohms is pretty impressive. However, the raw power is not the whole story.
There are much more to the tuning, how the power is controlled and implemented. Most importantly how it actually sound.

The OOR really checked a lot of boxes. Including a extremly quite background. Really detail sound across the board. Very well controlled and detailed treble for fatigue free listening for almost any headphone pairing. Slight warm characteristic in a solid State circuitry implementation. Neutral-warm signature.

One special note that those who want an added feeling of luxury sparkly highs may want to get a more neutral-bright amp.


----------



## chargedcapacitor (Apr 11, 2022)

Benno1988 said:


> Yeah 16ohm. Thought it was at 32.
> 
> Can you test the background / noise floor on both?


Using the balanceed connection, they seem identical. However, the single ended connection on the signature was almost unusable due to the high noise.

The OOR seems to have slightly more space between instruments, but it's a very small difference if it even exist at all.


----------



## Benno1988

chargedcapacitor said:


> Using the balanceed connection, they seem identical. However, the single ended connection on the signature was almost unusable due to the high noise.
> 
> The OOR seems to have slightly more space between instruments, but it's a very small difference if it even exist at all.


Interesting!

Any further comparisons of the two with the LCD5 are appreciated. Literally what I'm deciding between (have OOR no hypsos and a LCD5, want iCan)


----------



## gimmeheadroom

IanB52 said:


> Seems to me it is Mytek Brooklyn housing with different casework. Which makes sense since they build them. Even the same fuse compartment.


I have a Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ and it looks nothing like the Ferrum THX Clone 

From the net:


----------



## chargedcapacitor

Benno1988 said:


> Interesting!
> 
> Any further comparisons of the two with the LCD5 are appreciated. Literally what I'm deciding between (have OOR no hypsos and a LCD5, want iCan)


If you don't have the Hypsos or do not plan on getting it, the iCan sig might be the better option if you want to use the features. I've mostly been listening to the susvara between the two, so I still need to do a bit more testing to properly wrap my head around them.


----------



## Benno1988

chargedcapacitor said:


> If you don't have the Hypsos or do not plan on getting it, the iCan sig might be the better option if you want to use the features. I've mostly been listening to the susvara between the two, so I still need to do a bit more testing to properly wrap my head around them.


Think the thought I'd either get Hypsos or iCan (sell OOR)


----------



## chargedcapacitor

Benno1988 said:


> Think the thought I'd either get Hypsos or iCan (sell OOR)


I would recommend having both at the same time, and testing out which sounds best to you.


----------



## IanB52 (Apr 11, 2022)

gimmeheadroom said:


> I have a Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ and it looks nothing like the Ferrum THX Clone
> 
> From the net:


Hypsos has exactly the same dimensions, feet, screen, and controller knob as the Brooklyn, the illuminated logo is in the same place, same fuse case as the Manhattan II,  and built by the same team. Oor has the same RCA and XLR connectors.

What's inside is different, the input and output configuration is different, and casework is different. 

Also, Oor is not a THX design...


----------



## Benno1988

chargedcapacitor said:


> I would recommend having both at the same time, and testing out which sounds best to you.


The ideal world


----------



## chargedcapacitor

Benno1988 said:


> The ideal world


Honestly dude if you can't afford to own both at the same time, maybe spending 5g's on headphones isn't the best financial decision.


----------



## Benno1988

chargedcapacitor said:


> Honestly dude if you can't afford to own both at the same time, maybe spending 5g's on headphones isn't the best financial decision.


More about what other gear I have around at the moment and the overall hifi budget bud.

Not buying a headphone because if you do you then can't stretch to owning *two* high end amplifiers to slowly A/B against each other is the odd decision here.


----------



## cglin222

chargedcapacitor said:


> The Signature is about ~4W into 60 ohm, whereas the OOR is 8W into 60 ohm.
> 
> I have been A/B comparing the two for a while (by volume matching at 1000hz sine tone), but I am still trying to wrap my head around the two. It seems like the Sig is a bit more vocal / mid forward than the OOR. Both seem to handle bass and dynamics quite well, although there might be a _slight _edge to the OOR. I do love the XBass on the sig though, it really shines in certain music. The 3d feature doesn't work well as an amplifier feature (it actually lowers the volume by several dB when enabled), but works amazingly as a pre-amp feature (and does not lower the volume when enabled). The XBass also works in pre-amp mode.
> 
> I think if I were to choose between the two for the susvara, I would pic the OOR. Since I use the RME Adi as a dac / tone control, I am able to EQ the bass to approximate the XBass function. This makes the sig a bit redundant, but if I did not have the RME I would likely chose the sig. I'll keep both around a bit longer, so I can have more time to wrap my head around them.


So ican is 16ohm 14w and 60@4w
And oor 8w@60 ohm and 10w@32ohm 
How ican dropped wattage so much
What is ican w at 32 ohm?
Sorry for noob question but they don’t give power at different ohm so not sure how to calculate it


----------



## chargedcapacitor

cglin222 said:


> So ican is 16ohm 14w and 60@4w
> And oor 8w@60 ohm and 10w@32ohm
> How ican dropped wattage so much
> What is ican w at 32 ohm?
> Sorry for noob question but they don’t give power at different ohm so not sure how to calculate it


The same voltage is always being applied to the resistive load, but the current decreases as resistance increases. So typically if the resistance doubles, the current decreases and the power gets halved.

I=V\R

P=V*I

If R doubles, I halves, therefore power halves.


----------



## cglin222

chargedcapacitor said:


> The same voltage is always being applied to the resistive load, but the current decreases as resistance increases. So typically if the resistance doubles, the current decreases and the power gets halved.
> 
> I=V\R
> 
> ...


Thanks, I do know the formula, but it just seems strange that, I did see someone measure oor at 32 ohms, and it's about 9.2 or 10 w, 
so according to the equation if 8w @ 60 ohm, then if 30ohm then it's 16w, but in real life it's only 9.2 ~ 10w for oor at 32 ohms... hence I was thinking how ppl measure it..
or maybe I am just not getting it..


----------



## krude

cglin222 said:


> Thanks, I do know the formula, but it just seems strange that, I did see someone measure oor at 32 ohms, and it's about 9.2 or 10 w,
> so according to the equation if 8w @ 60 ohm, then if 30ohm then it's 16w, but in real life it's only 9.2 ~ 10w for oor at 32 ohms... hence I was thinking how ppl measure it..
> or maybe I am just not getting it..


The formula is for linear change, amps in real life are rarely linear, therefore the formula is a simplified way to get an idea what to expect. 

Also manufacturers rarely give you all the details, like how many db of gain they use, what impedance they measure the power at etc. Ferrum is really transparent as far as specs go which I can't say for other brands I had experience with.

Fun fact Oor has twice the headroom Soloist GT has from my experience on low / zero gain, the problem is that Burson doesn't tell you how many db their low gain is, and Ferrum in balanced is on +6db so I can't even tell you if my emprircal expirience is even valid.

TLDR it's complicated and unfortunately the only sure way to know how someting will behave is to use it in your chain 😐


----------



## Gavin C4 (Apr 12, 2022)

Headphones and amp pairing is more than just specs and power on paper. It is more about listening experience. Just like driving a car. Simply looking at the seconds require to accelerate from 0 to 100kmph does not tell you the whole story. You can get similar time on paper on a Tesla versus a Lamborghini.

Your enjoyment while listening and synergy with headpone is more important.

 Hopefully you can find ways to demo the Hypsos OOR at shows or meets , it is such a wonderful combo.


----------



## Benno1988

Whats a good DAC that has good synergy with the Hypsos + OOR stack?

Within reason haha. No dCS Rossini


----------



## GoldenOne

If anyone here is able to do so, please could you open the lid on your OOR and share what board revision you have?
There should be a black sharpied number on the top right hand side


----------



## chargedcapacitor

GoldenOne said:


> If anyone here is able to do so, please could you open the lid on your OOR and share what board revision you have?
> There should be a black sharpied number on the top right hand side


Does the serial number not correspond to a board version?


----------



## GoldenOne

chargedcapacitor said:


> Does the serial number not correspond to a board version?


Not guaranteed it doesn't seem


----------



## chargedcapacitor

GoldenOne said:


> Not guaranteed it doesn't seem


Can you post your sources on what the board revisions mean?


----------



## GoldenOne (Apr 12, 2022)

chargedcapacitor said:


> Can you post your sources on what the board revisions mean?


Two of the revisions were addressing issues I had found and informed Ferrum about. Beyond that I do not know what other changes they may have made.

I have several units here currently and I'm trying to gather information about what versions are in the hands of consumers as ahead of my review I want to be sure that consumers will be receiving the same version (or later) of the product I'm reviewing


----------



## chargedcapacitor

GoldenOne said:


> Two of the revisions were addressing issues I had found and informed Ferrum about. Beyond that I do not know what other changes they may have made.
> 
> I have several units here currently and I'm trying to gather information about what versions are in the hands of consumers as ahead of my review I want to be sure that consumers will be receiving the same version (or later) of the product I'm reviewing


Ok understood. I'll see if I can get my board number when I get home.


----------



## chargedcapacitor (Apr 12, 2022)

GoldenOne said:


> Two of the revisions were addressing issues I had found and informed Ferrum about. Beyond that I do not know what other changes they may have made.
> 
> I have several units here currently and I'm trying to gather information about what versions are in the hands of consumers as ahead of my review I want to be sure that consumers will be receiving the same version (or later) of the product I'm reviewing


It appears I have version 3.3. what other versions of the board are out there?


----------



## Gavin C4 (Apr 12, 2022)

GoldenOne said:


> If anyone here is able to do so, please could you open the lid on your OOR and share what board revision you have?
> There should be a black sharpied number on the top right hand side





chargedcapacitor said:


> It appears I have version 3.3. what other versions of the board are out there?







I got my unit from the very beginning. It appears that my unit is one of the ancient unit on a v2.0 board and revision 2.4. My OOR has been going strong. I wonder what revision has Ferrum Made to their Unit?


----------



## Gavin C4

Benno1988 said:


> Whats a good DAC that has good synergy with the Hypsos + OOR stack?
> 
> Within reason haha. No dCS Rossini



The Holo May paired with Ferrum Hypsos and OOR Stack too. Not only the dCS Rossini . There has been many people using Holo R2R DACs including the May and Spring in this thread. The Holo DACs are really well design and synergize well with the Hypsos OOR.


----------



## Roasty

well, I was pretty anxious to see what I would find.. 

v4.0 rev 4.2


----------



## sparkylarky

GoldenOne said:


> If anyone here is able to do so, please could you open the lid on your OOR and share what board revision you have?
> There should be a black sharpied number on the top right hand side


Board is v4.0, revision 4.1
Which revisions are addressing issues?
And when will your review be out?


----------



## Gavin C4

Roasty said:


> well, I was pretty anxious to see what I would find..
> 
> v4.0 rev 4.2


wow , there are lots of revisions afterward. The serial number of my OOR is smaller than 30 and my revision is already 2.4. I leave my OOR turnned on everyday, I guess it does not have any issue?


----------



## GoldenOne

I'll be discussing the issues in my review.
I'll probably make a post at the same time but want to word things carefully because:

- Neither of the two issues I found actually impact OOR owners/real world use of the amp anyway. And so they don't actually matter
- There is additional context that needs to be included about how they were found and addressed, and why HEM was/wasn't able to do certain things.
- Despite the above, it's the internet and people will get out their pitchforks no matter what. Which sucks and I wish it could be avoided but hey the internet is an angry place unfortunately. But I don't want to be accused of 'hiding' anything so I have to talk about it.

But the TLDR is that there are some OOR units in the hands of customers which do have the two issues I found. But neither of them will ever impact you at all anyway.


----------



## Gavin C4

GoldenOne said:


> I'll be discussing the issues in my review.
> I'll probably make a post at the same time but want to word things carefully because:
> 
> - Neither of the two issues I found actually impact OOR owners/real world use of the amp anyway. And so they don't actually matter
> ...



Thank you for all your effort and communication with Ferrum. Hopefully, we get your full review soon. The Ferrum OOR is such as a wonderful amp, it really deserves the love and attention from us. Especially those who are using Hifiman Susvara or other plannar headphone. Really love the pairing.


----------



## Dr_Hibbert

received 2-3 wks ago.


----------



## Dr_Hibbert

what's interesting is that both roasty's and mine are v4.0/r4.2, yet some parts appear to be different.  look at the white things(?) above the HEM stamp.  mine are branded axicom while roasty's are nexem.  odd.


----------



## Gavin C4

Dr_Hibbert said:


> what's interesting is that both roasty's and mine are v4.0/r4.2, yet some parts appear to be different.  look at the white things(?) above the HEM stamp.  mine are branded axicom while roasty's are nexem.  odd.



I guess they are similar parts with the same specification, just different manufacturers. It might be due to a supply shortage recently and they have to source their parts from different manufacturers?


----------



## Dr_Hibbert

Gavin C4 said:


> I guess they are similar parts with the same specification, just different manufacturers. It might be due to a supply shortage recently and they have to source their parts from different manufacturers?


yeah that's probably the case and not a big deal.  however, even minor differences could make the discussion about revisions more complicated, e.g. do we need to distinguish 4.2 (axiom) from  4.2 (nexum)?


----------



## Roasty (Apr 14, 2022)

hey guys, particularly those with the May KTE / Ferrum stack (@Sajid Amit @GoldenOne @DJJEZ) could you guys try something for me?

I usually put a dsp in Roon for headroom between -3dB to -10dB depending on setup/headphones in use. mostly around -6dB. I know (or think I know) that some attenuation is good to prevent clipping due to the "hot" xlr outs from the May.

yesterday by mistake I turned off the headroom dsp and had 0dB attenuation into the Ferrum stack, but I was really liking what I was hearing (after reducing the volume knob accordingly). spent the rest of the night listening to the setup as such.

could u guys try it with some headroom and without? I'm gg to try it on the Wavelight with 100 vol on the dac (I usually run it at around 80 to 90) as the xlr outs in the wavelight are also "hot".

*edited to include Jez!


----------



## jlbrach

I always listen to my amps at 0 out of roon...no issues


----------



## krude

Roasty said:


> hey guys, particularly those with the May KTE / Ferrum stack (@Sajid Amit @GoldenOne @DJJEZ) could you guys try something for me?
> 
> I usually put a dsp in Roon for headroom between -3dB to -10dB depending on setup/headphones in use. mostly around -6dB. I know (or think I know) that some attenuation is good to prevent clipping due to the "hot" xlr outs from the May.
> 
> ...


Same, you really should be at 0 if your system can handle that for full dynamics, and most SS amps should handle 5.8v from May no problem. Dave spits out 6v afaik and it's also not an issue.

But you are right, some amps would clip on inputs, especially tubes can be prone to that.


----------



## FooFighter

Running Spring 3 KTE with same voltage as May and am not applying headroom in Roon.
Clipping only occurs when using some more extensive equing and then I apply the headroom settings.
Without equing I am letting the full voltage into the OOR.
My Go-To-setup nowadays is Roon-HQPlayer with Ovatory1990-PEQ applied in HQPlayer Pipeline settings - for anyone missing body, euphonics and bass for Susvaras, try this setting as a baseline...

HQPlayer is giving my ears a more relaxed natural presentation whereas Roon is more direct into the face in direct comparison.

With such a more extensive equing I am applying -6db headroom within HQPlayer and even then moving the volume knob not beyond 1 o'clock at 0 gain


----------



## 801evan

Ferrum should just be publishing the input gain range of the OOR so there's no guesswork. There's no mention on their manual.


----------



## IanB52 (Apr 15, 2022)

I am hitting it with 7v from my DA2 DAC and zero attenuation on the digital side, and occasionally using the +6db setting (adds to the punch). This is serious gain. It does sound different from my DAC's lower 5v setting, but generally there is more presence with the higher voltage and I can't hear any obvious saturation, nor any clipping at all on any music.

I think it's fair to say that the Oor with Hypsos has tons of headroom and there probably isn't an input gain from a DAC or preamp that exists that it can't handle.


----------



## Gavin C4

Roasty said:


> hey guys, particularly those with the May KTE / Ferrum stack (@Sajid Amit @GoldenOne @DJJEZ) could you guys try something for me?
> 
> I usually put a dsp in Roon for headroom between -3dB to -10dB depending on setup/headphones in use. mostly around -6dB. I know (or think I know) that some attenuation is good to prevent clipping due to the "hot" xlr outs from the May.
> 
> ...


I always set the digital source Roon, to the loudest at 0db. I will not use any function such as volume match for different tracks or other dsp. I will let the headphone amp or preamp control the volume. Usually this will give the best results.


----------



## Roasty

I think it is out of habit that I apply the headroom in Roon. for both my WA33 and Primaluna tube pre, I find the sound more balanced with some attenuation at the source. also coupled with the fact that reducing volume with Roon dsp doesn't degrade SQ, I didn't think much of turning the headroom dsp off when using with the Ferrum stack. 

I am finding much more enjoyment without any attenuation into the stack now, at my usual listening levels or when volume matched to with headroom  dsp (or as close as I could).


----------



## GoldenOne (Apr 15, 2022)

krude said:


> Same, you really should be at 0 if your system can handle that for full dynamics, and most SS amps should handle 5.8v from May no problem. Dave spits out 6v afaik and it's also not an issue.
> 
> But you are right, some amps would clip on inputs, especially tubes can be prone to that.


Actually on quite a lot of DACs it's important to add a bit of headroom cause they don't do it internally. This means that in the presence of what's called 'intersample overs' they will clip heavily.

This is particularly prevalent in the 'uber-sinad' DACs like the Gustard X18, Topping D90SE etc. Whereas others like Benchmark, RME etc will ensure that this does not happen.
On a NOS DAC you do not need to do this as they are inherently immune to intersample overs clipping. But if using HQPlayer etc you'll want to keep volume at -3dB. The volume knob in HQP will actually turn red to tell you if clipping has occurred


Section taken from my DAC3B measurements write-up in regards to intersample overs:

This is an issue that arises due to how PCM and oversampling works.
PCM is a sampled audio format, meaning you have a sample at regular intervals (44100 times per second for redbook CD quality audio) describing what level the waveform is at for that specific point in time, and your DAC must then interpolate or play ‘connect the dots’ to reconstruct the original waveform.
The maximum level a sample can be is -0dB or ‘full scale’.
The problem is: what if all the samples are legal, and below -0dB, but the waveform itself is not?

We can create an example of this ourselves, by creating a sine wave at exactly a quarter of the sample-rate with an amplitude such that all the samples (shown as green squares below) are below the red -0dB line, but the actual intended waveform goes above this -0dB level.






When we feed this audio to a DAC, and it oversamples, it can only convert above 0dB if it has internal headroom to begin with.
Once all bits in a sample are 1, (So 1111111111111111 for a 16-bit sample), it cannot go higher. Meaning all those extra samples that are SUPPOSED to be above 0dB instead end up staying at a flat line on 0dB cause the DAC cannot describe a level higher than that.
As a result, anything above this -0dB line just gets chopped off, causing massive distortion.
Below is the Gustard X18 playing back a file with +3dB intersample overs. You can see that the waveform is chopped and we get significant distortion as a result.

To be clear, no oversampling software is being used. This is just the prepared 44.1khz file being fed directly to the DACs, and letting their internal processing do everything as it would with any normal music.






Gustard X18, +3dB intersample overs test


In fact, even with only +1dB overs the DAC still sees added distortion, because there is no headroom internally at all and so ANYTHING above -0dB will get clipped.






Gustard X18, +1dB intersample overs test


Whereas the DAC3 has internal headroom, and so if we try +3dB intersample overs on it there is no clipping at all and it reproduces the signal as it was intended to be reconstructed (other than the DACs own harmonic distortion below -110dB).






Benchmark DAC3B, +3dB intersample overs test


Note: the random spurs are not related to this test, this DAC just has those there in one channel all the time as shown later on in this post.
You often see intersample overs addressed in dedicated oversampling hardware/software such as the Chord Mscaler which adds 2.8dB of headroom, or HQPlayer which has adjustable headroom and will indicate if intersample overs clipping is encountered, but it’s not often we see it addressed inside DACs themselves, even though it REALLY should be.
Manufacturers may be reluctant to do so because sacrificing 3dB of potential dynamic range or SINAD means they won’t get to top ASR’s list anymore, but in my opinion this is a much more important problem to address than having a tiny bit of extra SINAD.

And whilst intersample overs SHOULDN’T be something you encounter all too often with real music, mastering isn’t always perfect and they will absolutely occur.
In fact just looking at a few of the more ‘brickwalled’ tracks I have in my library, intersample overs are present all over the place:


----------



## krude (Apr 15, 2022)

GoldenOne said:


> Actually on quite a lot of DACs it's important to add a bit of headroom cause they don't do it internally. This means that in the presence of what's called 'intersample overs' they will clip heavily.
> 
> This is particularly prevalent in the 'uber-sinad' DACs like the Gustard X18, Topping D90SE etc. Whereas others like Benchmark, RME etc will ensure that this does not happen.
> 
> ...


Really good explanation, thank you. Would you say that DAC running in 24bit has extra headroom? And from your testing does May have any extra headroom?

Going back to the initial question though, clipping your DAC is something totally different to clipping your AMP with a hot output DAC. I also have the same experience with headroom on tube amps being an issue and you can easily overdrive the gain structure with a DAC that is hotter than the AMPs designer anticipated. Doesn't happen with decent SS amps though from my experience so you can enjoy supreme dynamic range.


----------



## GoldenOne (Apr 15, 2022)

krude said:


> Really good explanation, thank you. Would you say that DAC running in 24bit has extra headroom? And from your testing does May have any extra headroom?
> 
> Going back to the initial question though, clipping your DAC is something totally different to clipping your AMP with a hot output DAC. I also have the same experience with headroom on tube amps being an issue and you can easily overdrive the gain structure with a DAC that is hotter than the AMPs designer anticipated. Doesn't happen with decent SS amps though from my experience so you can enjoy supreme dynamic range.


No a DAC running in 24 bit will not have extra headroom necessarily. This is because extra bit depth doesn't get added 'on top'.
ie: -6dBfs in 16 bit (0111111111111111)  is still -6dBfs converted to 24 bit (0111111111111111000000000).
Bit depth effectively adds dynamic range and the ability to describe lower level information but does not add headroom.

The May does not have headroom built in because it's NOS. Meaning the PCM samples get converted exactly as-is.
But NOS operation means that intersample overs never occur because no samples are being added. So it doesn't matter.
You'd want to add -3dB of headroom when using external oversampling like HQPlayer. But that's the case for any oversampling on any DAC, the MScaler for example adds -2.781dB of headroom.
And ideally oversampling DACs should do this internally, like the DAC3B or RME. But many don't, perhaps at least in part because nowadays if you sacrifice 3dB of potential THD+N you won't get to the top of ASR's DAC charts anymore. Even though resolving the issue of intersample clipping is almost certainly more important than an extra 3dB of SINAD


----------



## krude

GoldenOne said:


> No a DAC running in 24 bit will not have extra headroom necessarily. This is because extra bit depth doesn't get added 'on top'.
> ie: -6dBfs in 16 bit (0111111111111111)  is still -6dBfs converted to 24 bit (0111111111111111000000000).
> Bit depth effectively adds dynamic range and the ability to describe lower level information but does not add headroom.
> 
> ...


Nice one, your 2 posts should be pinned in some knowledge archive


----------



## Sajid Amit

krude said:


> Nice one, your 2 posts should be pinned in some knowledge archive


+1


----------



## GoldenOne

801evan said:


> Ferrum should just be publishing the input gain range of the OOR so there's no guesswork. There's no mention on their manual.


*Gain: *15.6dB (High), 5.6dB (Med), -4.3dB (Low)


----------



## sparkylarky

GoldenOne said:


> Actually on quite a lot of DACs it's important to add a bit of headroom cause they don't do it internally. This means that in the presence of what's called 'intersample overs' they will clip heavily.
> 
> This is particularly prevalent in the 'uber-sinad' DACs like the Gustard X18, Topping D90SE etc. Whereas others like Benchmark, RME etc will ensure that this does not happen.
> On a NOS DAC you do not need to do this as they are inherently immune to intersample overs clipping. But if using HQPlayer etc you'll want to keep volume at -3dB. The volume knob in HQP will actually turn red to tell you if clipping has occurred
> ...


Thank you for the detailed explanations, Golden.
Great post!


----------



## 801evan

GoldenOne said:


> *Gain: *15.6dB (High), 5.6dB (Med), -4.3dB (Low)


That's not input gain


----------



## GoldenOne

801evan said:


> That's not input gain


What spec are you looking for? Are you meaning the gain between the input/pre-stage and the main output stage?


----------



## Gavin C4 (Apr 15, 2022)

801evan said:


> ,That's not input gain





GoldenOne said:


> What spec are you looking for? Are you meaning the gain between the input/pre-stage and the main output stage?



I think he mean input sensitivity. For example a Topping A90, the input sensitivity
9.5Vrms @ Gain = low
8.8Vrms @ Gain = medium
2.9Vrms @ Gain = high

So over the V for input, signal will be lost. OOR may not have that publish?

The holo may seems to output 6v on XLR. The dCS DAC's can be set to either 0.2, 0.6, 2.0 or 6.0v on both XLR or RCA output. It really depends on the amp synergy. I think most well built solid state amp including the OOR can handle the output voltage from Holo May.


----------



## Dr_Hibbert

has anyone encountered a big change in the oor/hypsos after break in? after ~100 hours of pink noise, the SQ improved pretty dramatically for me. wider and deeper sound stage, better layering and more bass impact. coming from the soloist GT and ican pro signature, id say the oor/hypsos now has a more natural presentation than both as well as better tonality. all 3 of them are very good however. i intend to post a detailed comparison after i get more time with the ferrum stack.


----------



## IanB52

Dr_Hibbert said:


> has anyone encountered a big change in the oor/hypsos after break in? after ~100 hours of pink noise, the SQ improved pretty dramatically for me. wider and deeper sound stage, better layering and more bass impact. coming from the soloist GT and ican pro signature, id say the oor/hypsos now has a more natural presentation than both as well as better tonality. all 3 of them are very good however. i intend to post a detailed comparison after i get more time with the ferrum stack.


I noticed the changes you mention until a little over 200 hours playing music. It just sounds more grounded and less artificial. However, it was actually one of the less dramatic burn-in phases I've encountered with a HP amp (Enleum Amp-23r was much bigger change with longer burn in).


----------



## IanB52

GoldenOne said:


> Actually on quite a lot of DACs it's important to add a bit of headroom cause they don't do it internally. This means that in the presence of what's called 'intersample overs' they will clip heavily.
> 
> This is particularly prevalent in the 'uber-sinad' DACs like the Gustard X18, Topping D90SE etc. Whereas others like Benchmark, RME etc will ensure that this does not happen.
> On a NOS DAC you do not need to do this as they are inherently immune to intersample overs clipping. But if using HQPlayer etc you'll want to keep volume at -3dB. The volume knob in HQP will actually turn red to tell you if clipping has occurred
> ...


The thing about intersample clipping is that many good DACs already handle it, and it is actually inaudible up to a point. A sample or two at +1db several times in a track is not something you will notice. If there are _many_ of them, you might notice harshness. Most masters have a limiter at -.5db to reduce the possibility of an over, but sometimes that isn't enough.

I did a professional DAC to ADC loopback test a while back. I was using an unattenuated Mytek Manhattan DAC into a Brooklyn ADC. I thought the sound was as pristine as can be. Then someone pointed out a dozen clips on the DAC side. I still couldn't hear it. 

On the other hand, preemptively reducing volume in DSP will impact the sound quality more, unless you have a really hot track with actual clipping throughout. IMO


----------



## Delta9K (Apr 15, 2022)

I did not do an "active" run-in with the Oor/Hypsos but, after @200 hours or there about, I noticed improvement to dynamics, impact, staging and an overall dash of tonal sweetness that I found to be pleasing. Enough so that I even commented about it in another forum, so yep.  I may have also just become more relaxed with it and just started listening to and enjoying music vs critiquing.


----------



## Gavin C4

Dr_Hibbert said:


> has anyone encountered a big change in the oor/hypsos after break in? after ~100 hours of pink noise, the SQ improved pretty dramatically for me. wider and deeper sound stage, better layering and more bass impact. coming from the soloist GT and ican pro signature, id say the oor/hypsos now has a more natural presentation than both as well as better tonality. all 3 of them are very good however. i intend to post a detailed comparison after i get more time with the ferrum stack.



Yes it occurs, I have left such a similar impression a long time ago. Furthermore, the Hypsos OOR stack does need some time to warm up too. If it has been turned off for a significantly long period of time and its cold, I actually felt the bass to be a bit lean and lack the punch. I often leave my Stack on 24 hours as it is solid-state and does not matter.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Today, I went to Hifibuys in Buckhead, GA.  They are a Primaluna dealer, so I got to hear the Orr with a few Primaluna products and A/B/C tested it against the Primaluna EVO 400 Integrated AMP.

First A/B test was with

Luxman DAC > Primaluna EVO 400 Integrated > Susvara and Utopia

vs

Luxman DAC > Primaluna EVO 400 Preamp > Orr > Susvara and Utopia.

With this test, I much preferred the Primaluna EVO 400 Integrated amp.     It has a lot more power, sound stage is much wider, and the sound is much more vivid than the Primaluna + Orr combination.    Now, I am not sure that I had it set up for optimal sound.  There is double amping involved and I wasn't sure if I could set up it with a fix voltage line out from the Primaluna EVO 400 pre-amp.    If I buy a Primaluna EVO 400 it will be as an integrated amp.     I should also note that this has the lower noise floor of any tube amp I have ever heard.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

I was a bit disappointed because I wanted to pair my Orr with tube preamp to give it tube sound.    Then, I thought I would try the EVO 100 tube dac with the Ferrum Orr and then magic happened.    For me, the Primaluna EVO 100 tube dac > Ferrum Orr > Susvara and Utopia is a perfect match.     I will probably pick one up soon.    This has a very punchy sound and grand sound stage.    Note, I did not bring the Hypsos with me on this trip.   Not sure how much the sound would change with it in the chain.


----------



## Roasty

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Today, I went to Hifibuys in Buckhead, GA.  They are a Primaluna dealer, so I got to hear the Orr with a few Primaluna products and A/B/C tested it against the Primaluna EVO 400 Integrated AMP.
> 
> First A/B test was with
> 
> ...



the Evo 400 pre is an amazing component. I tried Evo 400 pre to Ferrum stack in bypass mode, and I preferred Evo 400 to Kinki power amp. 

at the dealers, I did try the Evo 400 integrated and yes it was great with both the TC and Sus. if I didn't already have a power amp, I probably would have just gotten the integrated.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Roasty said:


> the Evo 400 pre is an amazing component. I tried Evo 400 pre to Ferrum stack in bypass mode, and I preferred Evo 400 to Kinki power amp.
> 
> at the dealers, I did try the Evo 400 integrated and yes it was great with both the TC and Sus. if I didn't already have a power amp, I probably would have just gotten the integrated.


Yup. The integrated is lovely. As is their DAC (flies under the radar on HeadFi). Makes me want to get the DAC in for a review.

The integrated also pairs well with the SR1a. Exceedingly well.


----------



## Gavin C4

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Today, I went to Hifibuys in Buckhead, GA.  They are a Primaluna dealer, so I got to hear the Orr with a few Primaluna products and A/B/C tested it against the Primaluna EVO 400 Integrated AMP.
> 
> First A/B test was with
> 
> ...



I am currently using dCS Rossini DAC connected to Hypsos OOR stack in power amp mode. I use the Rossini DAC at preamp volume control at 2v output. It is usually set to -5 to -10db for listening to Susvara.


----------



## krude

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Today, I went to Hifibuys in Buckhead, GA.  They are a Primaluna dealer, so I got to hear the Orr with a few Primaluna products and A/B/C tested it against the Primaluna EVO 400 Integrated AMP.
> 
> First A/B test was with
> 
> ...


How interesting, was just planning to upgrade my HA6a to the Evo 400 integrated ... already had some good feedback but now it's pretty much certain 🙌


----------



## FooFighter (Apr 17, 2022)

@GoldenOne
I am currently testing Oor Poweramp mode wearing Susvaras using only digital attenuation through HQPlayer / Roon as I was motivated reading your and @Gavin C4 's experiments and together with Hypsos at 28V I really like what I hear.
As you mentioned in your earlier posted review using Dave as a source that it will depend on the DAC if digital attenuation is making sense (as it otherwise sacrifices too much dynamic range), can you please tell your opinion about Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE (without the preamp module).
My first question is:
I want to know if I am hearing now Oor at its best yet or will need to get a Serene to get there (besides the obvious lower risk to screw the headphone with a full blown output.)

One thing that is wondering me quite a lot is that in my current setup using HQPlayer /Roon with PCM to DSD conversion I can set digital attenuation to 0db which should be the full throttle in Power Amp mode, shouldn't it?
It's very loud then but still listenable.
Agreed Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE will lower its output by -6db in DSD mode but still this is by far not as loud as in headamp mode in high gain.

So my second question is: is either
a) OOR not outputting the same volume in Poweramp mode as in headamp mode with High Gain and volume pot maxed out?
b) might my unit be defective?
Thx in advance!


----------



## GoldenOne

FooFighter said:


> @GoldenOne
> I am currently testing Oor Poweramp mode using only digital attenuation through HQPlayer / Roon as I was motivated reading your and @Gavin C4 's experiments and together with Hypsos at 28V I really like what I hear.
> As you mentioned in your earlier posted review using Dave as a source that it will depend on the DAC if digital attenuation is making sense (as it otherwise sacrifices too much dynamic range), can you please tell your opinion about Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE (without the preamp module).
> My first question is:
> ...


Bypass mode is equivalent to Med gain so it'll be the same as using med gain with pot maxed.

When in low gain or high gain modes the OOR uses an additional pre-stage whereas medium gain does not. (If you have hypsos you can actually see that idle power usage is a watt or so higher for Low/High gain than medium gain)

The Spring 3 has considerably higher dynamic range than most DACs so it'll work better than most with DSP volume control (additionally with R2R DACs you have the benefit that quantization noise does not increase as you go lower in signal level like it does with DS DACs).
But that being said, I personally feel a well done analog volume control is a better choice.

Doesn't have to be the Serene, lots of great preamps out there.
But the Serene is rather fantastic.


----------



## FooFighter

GoldenOne said:


> Bypass mode is equivalent to Med gain so it'll be the same as using med gain with pot maxed.
> 
> When in low gain or high gain modes the OOR uses an additional pre-stage whereas medium gain does not. (If you have hypsos you can actually see that idle power usage is a watt or so higher for Low/High gain than medium gain)
> 
> ...


Thx mate for the quick and valuable response!
I will sleep over it and count Serenes, ehem sheeps 😉


----------



## Gavin C4

GoldenOne said:


> Bypass mode is equivalent to Med gain so it'll be the same as using med gain with pot maxed.
> 
> When in low gain or high gain modes the OOR uses an additional pre-stage whereas medium gain does not. (If you have hypsos you can actually see that idle power usage is a watt or so higher for Low/High gain than medium gain)
> 
> ...





FooFighter said:


> Thx mate for the quick and valuable response!
> I will sleep over it and count Serenes, ehem sheeps 😉



Yup, I totally agree. After some testing with Holo May, it seems to work really fine with -5 DB in headroom management and output to OOR. I used the volume pot on OOR for this pairing in mid gain and set the OOR to 28-30v power. It can totally handle the Susvara. The volume pot on the OOR is very well implemented.


----------



## GoldenOne (Apr 17, 2022)

Gavin C4 said:


> Yup, I totally agree. After some testing with Holo May, it seems to work really fine with -5 DB in headroom management and output to OOR. I used the volume pot on OOR for this pairing in mid gain and set the OOR to 28-30v power. It can totally handle the Susvara. The volume pot on the OOR is very well implemented.


Yeah they've done a very nice job with the volume control.

It's actually quite surprising how much the volume control method can affect a chain.
Some amps even when measuring will show a pretty drastic change in performance if you use the pot instead of lowering the input level. So there's certainly objective backing to the subjective findings!

The OOR's volume control does very very well


----------



## duranxv

GoldenOne said:


> Yeah they've done a very nice job with the volume control.
> 
> It's actually quite surprising how much the volume control method can affect a chain.
> Some amps even when measuring will show a pretty drastic change in performance if you use the pot instead of lowering the input level. So there's certainly objective backing to the subjective findings!
> ...



Would you say it's best to keep the OOR in bypass mode? Or is there any benefit to going high gain and max volume?  In this case, it would be for power demanding headphones like Susvara or DCA Stealth


----------



## Gavin C4 (Apr 18, 2022)

duranxv said:


> Would you say it's best to keep the OOR in bypass mode? Or is there any benefit to going high gain and max volume?  In this case, it would be for power demanding headphones like Susvara or DCA Stealth



What DAC or source are you using, it really depends on what you have in hand. Please share with us what equipment you are using. 

The OOR’s function is very versital. In this regard, the general consuses is that.
The volume control on the OOR is not bad at all. Whether you should be using your OOR in by-pass mode, it really depends on your up front source gear. If you have a really good preamp or tube preamp of your preference, or your DAC can act as a volume control preamp and it is well implemented in a way that it takes into account the topology of the DAC itself and will not reduce the dynamic. Then you can use the OOR in bypass power amp mode. If you do not have any preamp, and will be controlling the volume using digital volume in for example Foobar, then I suggest you be using the volume nob on the OOR and set the digital volume in foobar to max.


----------



## FooFighter

GoldenOne said:


> Bypass mode is equivalent to Med gain so it'll be the same as using med gain with pot maxed.
> 
> When in low gain or high gain modes the OOR uses an additional pre-stage whereas medium gain does not. (If you have hypsos you can actually see that idle power usage is a watt or so higher for Low/High gain than medium gain)
> 
> ...


Hi mate,
still trying to get my head around if it's worth getting an additional preamp, especially the question about how much audible benefits will I get paying another 3k bucks compared to what I am currently hearing with my Spring 3 KTE, HQPlayer and digital attenuation into OOR/Hypsos.
From what I ve been reading most people seem to be getting preamps for the sake of additional colouring of the sound signature, especially certain tube amps potentially providing a larger sound stage and different body and bass and notes decay etc.
Not many people seem to have tried the Serene with the Ferrum stack.
From what I ve read in your reviews you describe it as super clean and not changing the sound signature in any way.
The obvious advantages for a preamp in terms of increased headroom and in the special case of OOR power amp mode providing a way to now safely regulate the volume are clear to me but for the extra headroom I am wondering what is the audible benefit to the digital attenuation - is the increase in dynamic range audible for mortal ears talking about yet very good DAC implementations like the Spring 3 KTE (or May)?
Those questions are then also interesting in the light of cost-value-relation-ship considering what I could buy for the sum of OOR-HYPSOS and Serene instead like other TOTL headamps or - and now I am stopping with my spinning thoughts - some Holo Audio Bliss.
Anyone heard about that TOP amp which was supposed to be released some time ago yet and specifically made for Susvara?
Thx for your time and thoughts about this!


----------



## SlothRock

Who here has their Ferrum OOR plugged in to their studio monitors? If so, how is the sound? I have a Burson GT currently and the preamp to my studio monitors is fantastic. Curious how the OOR would compare


----------



## Gavin C4 (Apr 18, 2022)

FooFighter said:


> Hi mate,
> still trying to get my head around if it's worth getting an additional preamp, especially the question about how much audible benefits will I get paying another 3k bucks compared to what I am currently hearing with my Spring 3 KTE, HQPlayer and digital attenuation into OOR/Hypsos.
> From what I ve been reading most people seem to be getting preamps for the sake of additional colouring of the sound signature, especially certain tube amps potentially providing a larger sound stage and different body and bass and notes decay etc.
> Not many people seem to have tried the Serene with the Ferrum stack.
> ...



First, we are starting to getting into the uncharted territory of the headphone world when discussing about dedicated preamp for headphones. Though, it is a well studied aspect in the Hifi 2 channel world. Not many guys here have tons of experience about preamp, including me. I have only came across 3-4 2-channel systems preamp and I listend to them from different 2-channel systems. Not headphones system. Though, they are all uber-expensive 2-channel preamps. This includes Gryphone Zena Preamp, Gryphon Pandora Preamp, Gryphon Essence Preamp, Soulnote P3 preamp and Esoteric preamps.

It really depends on what sound signature you would like to achieve. After adding a preamp, another pair of XLR interconnect and power cord will introduce some degree of coloration and change.

Obviously as you have said, coloration from tube preamps must be considered. But not only tubes, even relay switch preamps would have their own tuning and signature similar to the house sound of the brand. For example Gryphon preamps would have slightly more analog texture and slightly larger size in notes. Esoteric have a coloration in slightly added mid bass and sweet addition of mid-high frequency for well extended vocals. You really need some serious research.

Risk of introducing bottle necks. For example low quality preamps or Op amps preamps that are extremely well measured such as topping alternatives could be a bottleneck for the entire system considering all your equipment is so revealing and detailed. For example reduction of detail retrieval due to low quality components.

At this level, i guess you should be able to hear the difference between headphone cables, interconnect cables and power cords. You will have to take into account what cables you are originally using. For example I am using Crystal Cable Future Dream XLR interconnect. If I add another preamp, I would need an additional pair of Crystal Cable XLR or some alternative at a similar level to maintain a similar performance. This is obviously some additional cost.

Opportunity cost is another aspect. Money could be used in other upgrades for example a better power conditioner, better power cords or XLR interconnect, or save for future second pair of Totl headphones. Or get some power related components such as iFi AC ipurifier or Entreq ground box. Which I am also using, and brings really positive results.


I am not trying to tell you what way is the best. And many would say these are all snake oil. But I am also in a similar situation of thinking about a preamp. While I am currently using my dCS Rossini as preamp, I am getting very good results. I may need a really high end 2-channel preamp to beat my dCS.

This is such a exotic hobby. Spending more or adding more components does not necessarily means better. Rather than "thinking" what is the best. I would "Listen" to what I have now. Sometimes, less is more.


----------



## duranxv

Gavin C4 said:


> What DAC or source are you using, it really depends on what you have in hand. Please share with us what equipment you are using.
> 
> The OOR’s function is very versital. In this regard, the general consuses is that.
> The volume control on the OOR is not bad at all. Whether you should be using your OOR in by-pass mode, it really depends on your up front source gear. If you have a really good preamp or tube preamp of your preference, or your DAC can act as a volume control preamp and it is well implemented in a way that it takes into account the topology of the DAC itself and will not reduce the dynamic. Then you can use the OOR in bypass power amp mode. If you do not have any preamp, and will be controlling the volume using digital volume in for example Foobar, then I suggest you be using the volume nob on the OOR and set the digital volume in foobar to max.



PC is source.  DAC is Holo Spring 3 KTE and I'm using a Woo Audio WA22 as a tube pre-amp to flavor the sound into the Hypsos + OOR stack


----------



## Gavin C4 (Apr 18, 2022)

duranxv said:


> PC is source.  DAC is Holo Spring 3 KTE and I'm using a Woo Audio WA22 as a tube pre-amp to flavor the sound into the Hypsos + OOR stack


Since you already have WA 22 in hand, it would be really simple to listen for yourself. I personally treasure clarity and micro details and separation and sense of space. I would listen to the above aspect while comparing whether I will be using the preamp.

In a technical aspect, you might lose some clarity or micro details when using tubes as compare to only solid state. But I do not have a WA22 so this is pure generalization as solid state usually have slightly better raw performance.

Also see this post https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fer...ier-with-a-soul.958541/page-100#post-16922400

If you really like the coloration and flavor. A die hard tube enthusiast, go for Tubes !


----------



## Sajid Amit

Gavin C4 said:


> First, we are starting to getting into the uncharted territory of the headphone world when discussing about dedicated preamp for headphones. Though, it is a well studied aspect in the Hifi 2 channel world. Not many guys here have tons of experience about preamp, including me. I have only came across 3-4 2-channel systems preamp and I listend to them from different 2-channel systems. Not headphones system. Though, they are all uber-expensive 2-channel preamps. This includes Gryphone Zena Preamp, Gryphon Pandora Preamp, Gryphon Essence Preamp, Soulnote P3 preamp and Esoteric preamps.
> 
> It really depends on what sound signature you would like to achieve. After adding a preamp, another pair of XLR interconnect and power cord will introduce some degree of coloration and change.
> 
> ...


Nicely put.


----------



## krude

Gavin C4 said:


> First, we are starting to getting into the uncharted territory of the headphone world when discussing about dedicated preamp for headphones. Though, it is a well studied aspect in the Hifi 2 channel world. Not many guys here have tons of experience about preamp, including me. I have only came across 3-4 2-channel systems preamp and I listend to them from different 2-channel systems. Not headphones system. Though, they are all uber-expensive 2-channel preamps. This includes Gryphone Zena Preamp, Gryphon Pandora Preamp, Gryphon Essence Preamp, Soulnote P3 preamp and Esoteric preamps.
> 
> It really depends on what sound signature you would like to achieve. After adding a preamp, another pair of XLR interconnect and power cord will introduce some degree of coloration and change.
> 
> ...


This is an epic post, thank you


----------



## carboncopy

I just tried this ago old recepie from the 2-channel world where preamp is seen really a crucial part of any system. So, I inserted my Trafomatic Head 2 as a preamp between the Heléne and the Enleum. Not logical at all and yet...To be honest I am still undiceded a bit about the Enleum, because it was too soft and round sounding for me but driven through the Trafomatic things stirred quite a bit up (in a postive way).

I don't know why I haven't thought about it before, since my system is a traditional 2 channel system to begin with, it just ends in headphones not in speakers.


----------



## DJJEZ

My OOR is finally here. Haven't listened to it
 yet but I plan to listen all night tonight


----------



## Gavin C4

DJJEZ said:


> My OOR is finally here. Haven't listened to it
> yet but I plan to listen all night tonight



Give the Hypsos OOR stack some time to settle down before extensive listening. Allowing the stack to warm up will provide a more stable and punchy bass.


----------



## DJJEZ

Gavin C4 said:


> Give the Hypsos OOR stack some time to settle down before extensive listening. Allowing the stack to warm up will provide a more stable and punchy bass.


I have a habit of not listening to anything until its been warmed up for about 8 hours when I get new gear in


----------



## sawindra

Dr_Hibbert said:


> received 2-3 wks ago.



right now, from what i understand acquiring and securing parts has been difficult for many manufacturers. Not just Ferrum. Practically everybody is affected. therefore alternative parts will lead to more revisions.


----------



## ARCXENOS

I have a Spring 3 KTE with the preamp module that has a 11.6 vrms maximum output, which I think is too hot for many HPAs, a main point of interest I have from the OOR was reading about the bypass to make the OOR a power amplifier, I am wondering if my DAC's preamp is a suitable match for the OOR?


----------



## Sajid Amit (Apr 21, 2022)

carboncopy said:


> I just tried this ago old recepie from the 2-channel world where preamp is seen really a crucial part of any system. So, I inserted my Trafomatic Head 2 as a preamp between the Heléne and the Enleum. Not logical at all and yet...To be honest I am still undiceded a bit about the Enleum, because it was too soft and round sounding for me but driven through the Trafomatic things stirred quite a bit up (in a postive way).
> 
> I don't know why I haven't thought about it before, since my system is a traditional 2 channel system to begin with, it just ends in headphones not in speakers.


I found the 13R soft and round-sounding.

Which, for some people, works well with the Susvara. Like it does for a good friend. 

Didn’t for me.


----------



## FooFighter

ARCXENOS said:


> I have a Spring 3 KTE with the preamp module that has a 11.6 vrms maximum output, which I think is too hot for many HPAs, a main point of interest I have from the OOR was reading about the bypass to make the OOR a power amplifier, I am wondering if my DAC's preamp is a suitable match for the OOR?


I remember @GoldenOne has reported the preamp module to be very good bang for bucks in the Spring3 KTE.
Not sure though if he tested it with OOR.


----------



## sparkylarky

ARCXENOS said:


> I have a Spring 3 KTE with the preamp module that has a 11.6 vrms maximum output, which I think is too hot for many HPAs, a main point of interest I have from the OOR was reading about the bypass to make the OOR a power amplifier, I am wondering if my DAC's preamp is a suitable match for the OOR?


I have the Spring 3 KTE with pre-amp module connected to the Hypsos/Oor stack, it is a fantastic combo.
But I currently do not use the bypass function on the Oor (but will try that out soon).


----------



## chargedcapacitor

sparkylarky said:


> I have the Spring 3 KTE with pre-amp module connected to the Hypsos/Oor stack, it is a fantastic combo.
> But I currently do not use the bypass function on the Oor (but will try that out soon).


I tried out the bypass mode for a few days. While it may have had a slight increase in clarity (very hard to test and know for sure) I do feel like a slight trade off was made in dynamics. As soon as I went back to high gain / volume max, I felt / heard greater dynamics on both the LCD-5 and susvara when compared to medium gain. Because bypass mode is essentially the same as medium gain w/o a pot, I also got more headroom.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Apr 21, 2022)

sparkylarky said:


> I have the Spring 3 KTE with pre-amp module connected to the Hypsos/Oor stack, it is a fantastic combo.
> But I currently do not use the bypass function on the Oor (but will try that out soon).


Using the bypass function will give you a steady continous power of 8w at 60ohms. This is really good for planar magnetic headphones.

 If you are using dynamic headphones, that are easy to drive you may not require such function because it will makes the music too loud and you will have a very narrow range to control the volume of the music. Also having to turn the digital preamp volume too low may scrafice some dynamic range. So in most cases, using the volume pot on the OOR is just fine.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

Gavin C4 said:


> Using the bypass function will give you a steady continous power of 8w at 60ohms. This is really good for planar magnetic headphones. If you are using dynamic headphones, you may not require such function because it will makes the music too loud and you will have a very narrow range to control the volume of the music. Also having to turn the digital preamp volume too low may scrafice some dynamic range. So in most cases, using the volume pot on the OOR is just fine.


This is not true, bypass is only medium gain.


----------



## Gavin C4

chargedcapacitor said:


> This is not true, bypass is only medium gain.


When using in bypass mode, it also depends on the output voltage of your DAC. The headphone you are using. When pugging in easy to drive headphones, some pairing in by pass mode is too loud. YMMV


----------



## jlbrach

Sajid Amit said:


> I found the 13R soft and round-sounding.
> 
> Which, for some people, works well with the Susvara. Like it does for a good friend.
> 
> Didn’t for me.


we all hear differently I think the 13r and susvara is a match made in heaven best I have heard up till now


----------



## paradoxper

carboncopy said:


> I just tried this ago old recepie from the 2-channel world where preamp is seen really a crucial part of any system. So, I inserted my Trafomatic Head 2 as a preamp between the Heléne and the Enleum. Not logical at all and yet...To be honest I am still undiceded a bit about the Enleum, because it was too soft and round sounding for me but driven through the Trafomatic things stirred quite a bit up (in a postive way).
> 
> I don't know why I haven't thought about it before, since my system is a traditional 2 channel system to begin with, it just ends in headphones not in speakers.


Super interesting. Head 2 is a nice amp. Biggy zealot of tube pre, solid state amplification mating. Surprised it matches Enleum as it's too warm for solid state as is.


----------



## chargedcapacitor (Apr 21, 2022)

jlbrach said:


> we all hear differently I think the 13r and susvara is a match made in heaven best I have heard up till now


Being a good match for the susvara isn't what we are discussing; this argument is directed at the YouTube review saying the 23R has stronger bass impact than two AHB2's. Bass impact isn't really up for subjective opinion, one can't hear soft bass from one amp and strong bass from another, and then another person disagree about these opinions. Treble, yes. Upper frequency response, yes. Whether or not they like said "strong bass", yes.


----------



## IanB52

chargedcapacitor said:


> Being a good match for the susvara isn't what we are discussing; this argument is directed at the YouTube review saying the 23R has stronger bass impact then two AHB2's. Bass impact isn't really up for subjective opinion, one can't hear soft bass from one amp and strong bass from another, and then another person disagree about these opinions. Treble, yes. Upper frequency response, yes. Whether or not they like said "strong bass", yes.


I sold my Amp-23r before I bought a Susvara, but for Abyss headphones Oor+Hypsos had MUCH stronger and more articulate bass. I think of Enleum as more of a midrange oriented amp.


----------



## chargedcapacitor (Apr 21, 2022)

Gavin C4 said:


> When using in bypass mode, it also depends on the output voltage of your DAC. The headphone you are using. When pugging in easy to drive headphones, some pairing in by pass mode is too loud. YMMV


No, that's not how gain works. On medium gain the max power output is likely ~more~ less than half of hi gain. No one has measured it, or posted the results, as far as I'm aware.


----------



## carboncopy

paradoxper said:


> Super interesting. Head 2 is a nice amp. Biggy zealot of tube pre, solid state amplification mating. Surprised it matches Enleum as it's too warm for solid state as is.


That's probably because the Head 2 has quite the opposite sound signature as the Enleum. Very energetic, open, lit up sound. Actually the solid state is more like a tube amp and the tube preamp is more like a solid state. Not quite of course, but that's the direction. I contunie to enjoy this mix.


----------



## krude (Apr 22, 2022)

chargedcapacitor said:


> No, that's not how gain works. On medium gain the max power output is likely ~more~ less than half of hi gain. No one has measured it, or posted the results, as far as I'm aware.


Can you link some sources that would explain your reasoning? Im not an expert but from my understanding gain is something completely different and not influencing the power output / rating.

Are you talking about volume when you mean power?

As I understand it gain is a boost to the input signal that is then going through the power stage. Boosting the gain stage usually introducest distortion and degrades SQ but increases percieved volume bc it boosts the input signal. The power stage though is not affected, it just outputs the signal whether boosted or not.

There's probably someone here that can deliver a better explanation (cough @GoldenOne cough). One thing Im sure of is that you get the best SQ on gain closest to 0 in amps.


----------



## shafat777

Doest the OOR convert SE input into balanced sound like the GSX-mini? My yggy powers my MJ2 with XLR while the mini gets the se rca becauase it doesnt matter what i feed it, its all gonna be balanced. Im thinking about the OOR w/ HYpsos to replace my mini but can only provide a SE input at the moment. Any info would be helpful.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Apr 22, 2022)

shafat777 said:


> Doest the OOR convert SE input into balanced sound like the GSX-mini? My yggy powers my MJ2 with XLR while the mini gets the se rca becauase it doesnt matter what i feed it, its all gonna be balanced. Im thinking about the OOR w/ HYpsos to replace my mini but can only provide a SE input at the moment. Any info would be helpful.


Yes, everything in the OOR is balanced. Even you use RCA as input, you can still use the XLR headphone output or xlr preamp output.

However I would prefer your setup in the other way round, feed RCA to Schiit Mjolnir 2, and give the XLR to OOR. I have once owned both amp and the OOR is obviously the better one. Feeding XLR to OOR allows you to utilize it's full potential.


----------



## SLC1966

Gavin C4 said:


> Yes, everything in the OOR is balanced. Even you use RCA as input, you can still use the XLR headphone output or xlr preamp output.
> 
> However I would prefer your setup in the other way round, feed RCA to Schiit Mjolnir 2, and give the XLR to OOR. I have once owned both amp and the OOR is obviously the better one. Feeding XLR to OOR allows you to utilize it's full potential.


I am running an OOR/Hypsos stack with Spring KTE and an MJ2/Gumby stack.  They are excellent compliments in sound.  One thing I am noticing is that I am enjoying my VC HP with the MJ2 stack more and REALLY enjoying my Stealth with the OOR/Hypsos/Spring stack.  Synergy synergy.  What a pleasurable and annoying thing!


----------



## duranxv

SLC1966 said:


> I am running an OOR/Hypsos stack with Spring KTE and an MJ2/Gumby stack.  They are excellent compliments in sound.  One thing I am noticing is that I am enjoying my VC HP with the MJ2 stack more and REALLY enjoying my Stealth with the OOR/Hypsos/Spring stack.  Synergy synergy.  What a pleasurable and annoying thing!



Agreed, using Spring 3 KTE with the Ferrum OOR + Hypsos into the DCA Stealth.  Really good chain for the Stealths!


----------



## Gavin C4

The Ferrum Hypsos OOR stack is always so impressive. When I am going through the Utopia and Susvara, they both performs so well with the OOR. What really impresses me is the punch of the Susvara on this combo. It is on pair with the Utopia. Based on my understanding and amps that I have tried before, there aren't many amps that can make the Susvara punch so hard, let alone headphone amps or speaker amps.


----------



## chesebert (Apr 25, 2022)

Heard the stack at AXPONA with LCDx and Utopia. I used my own chord mojo (I bring my own dac to shows) and my own music via poly sd card. My 20 min impression is that the stack does sound very good. Despite being a little current limited on paper, I could not detect any obvious defect with the sound. I would put it alongside Headamp's GSX-2 quality but a bit warmer sounding with better timbre reproduction but not as powerful (there wasn't this feeling of deep, endless bass). It's obviously not as powerful sounding as Dynahi. For the size, I think the stack was great. 

Take what I said with a grain of salt, as it was a show environment and the dac I brought with me was low end, so bass performance was negatively impacted by the dac. The table I heard the stack at only had Topping...so they are definitely not doing themselves any favor by using an even lower end dac.


----------



## LarsMan

Gavin C4 said:


> The Ferrum Hypsos OOR stack is always so impressive. When I am going through the Utopia and Susvara, they both performs so well with the OOR. What really impresses me is the punch of the Susvara on this combo. It is on pair with the Utopia. Based on my understanding and amps that I have tried before, there aren't many amps that can make the Susvara punch so hard, let alone headphone amps or speaker amps.


I think one of the nicest things about an amp driving a Susvara well is that you forget you're listening to Susvara, because it doesn't sound like anything more is lacking than would be with Utopias.


----------



## dusty.ro

For the people that use the OOR with the HYPSOS PS and SUSVARA: what is the best voltage that worked best? For me it has to be at least 27.5V.


----------



## Gavin C4

dusty.ro said:


> For the people that use the OOR with the HYPSOS PS and SUSVARA: what is the best voltage that worked best? For me it has to be at least 27.5V.


Yes, I have came to a similar conclusion and posted a few pages ago that I actually prefer setting the Hypsos to 28 -30 V for the pairing with Susvara. It generally gives the vocals more transparency and more air and mid to treble extension. Do you have a similar impression of slightly better tonality shift after the voltage modification to 27.5v?


----------



## dusty.ro (Apr 26, 2022)

Gavin C4 said:


> Yes, I have came to a similar conclusion and posted a few pages ago that I actually prefer setting the Hypsos to 28 -30 V for the pairing with Susvara. It generally gives the vocals more transparency and more air and mid to treble extension. Do you have a similar impression of slightly better tonality shift after the voltage modification to 27.5v?


I actually do. I have experimented with 28V and 29V. I also liked 29V. I haven't made up my mind in regards to what voltage to use, but the default doesn't cut it, that's for sure. I'll keep experimenting.Thanks!


----------



## IanB52

I found an increase in clarity by upping the voltage, but it also ended up being pretty harsh. 30v was giving me a headache and back down to 24v was a relief.

Could be that I'm using a silver litz DHC Prion 4 cable. Are you guys who are doing the higher voltages using copper or warmer sounding cables?


----------



## Vangelis

chesebert said:


> Heard the stack at AXPONA with LCDx and Utopia. I used my own chord mojo (I bring my own dac to shows) and my own music via poly sd card. My 20 min impression is that the stack does sound very good. Despite being a little current limited on paper, I could not detect any obvious defect with the sound. I would put it alongside Headamp's GSX-2 quality but a bit warmer sounding with better timbre reproduction but not as powerful (there wasn't this feeling of deep, endless bass). It's obviously not as powerful sounding as Dynahi. For the size, I think the stack was great.
> 
> Take what I said with a grain of salt, as it was a show environment and the dac I brought with me was low end, so bass performance was negatively impacted by the dac. The table I heard the stack at only had Topping...so they are definitely not doing themselves any favor by using an even lower end dac.


I also heard the Oor + Hypsos at the Axpona show. I hadn’t even planned on auditioning it.  With a modest DAC and using Ferrum’s new proprietary headphone cable, the Focals Utopias very nice.  I’ve never liked the Utopias during prior auditions, they always sounded too aggressive and fatiguing with a flat soundstage. On the Oor + Hypsos, the Utopias were liquid smooth, textured, layered, extended and very open.  I could have listened all day to that system. I was impressed. I ended up buying the Oor + Hypsos before I left the table.


----------



## dusty.ro

IanB52 said:


> I found an increase in clarity by upping the voltage, but it also ended up being pretty harsh. 30v was giving me a headache and back down to 24v was a relief.
> 
> Could be that I'm using a silver litz DHC Prion 4 cable. Are you guys who are doing the higher voltages using copper or warmer sounding cables?


I'm using the Siltech Duchess Crown which is mono crystal silver with gold fillings. No harshness whatsoever, even at 30V.


----------



## Tom75

Hi guys,
I'm a new owner of the Oor/Hypsos and currently also an Erco.  
but looking for a R2R DAC with a USB-C connection. Any recommendations out there?


----------



## Gavin C4 (Apr 27, 2022)

Tom75 said:


> Hi guys,
> I'm a new owner of the Oor/Hypsos and currently also an Erco.
> but looking for a R2R DAC with a USB-C connection. Any recommendations out there?



Full sized desktop DACs rarely use USB -C. Usually only portable DACs offer USB C input and are r2r, for example Cayin RU6 R2R DAC , luxury & precision w2.

If you want desktop alternatives for r2r, dCS Bartok , dCS Rossini, Holo may, holo spring are great solod choices as lots of us here paired with OOR with superb results.


----------



## krude

Tom75 said:


> Hi guys,
> I'm a new owner of the Oor/Hypsos and currently also an Erco.
> but looking for a R2R DAC with a USB-C connection. Any recommendations out there?


Why usb c only?


----------



## Tom75

Hi, not only USB C, but I do a lot of streaming and found it very easy to plug in the IPhone via USB C to lightning... ( same with Fiio K9pro).
But anyhow, the Spring3 KTE seems to be a good match. May be also the musician pegasus?
Thanks Thomas


----------



## StevenR296

Tom75 said:


> Hi, not only USB C, but I do a lot of streaming and found it very easy to plug in the IPhone via USB C to lightning... ( same with Fiio K9pro).
> But anyhow, the Spring3 KTE seems to be a good match. May be also the musician pegasus?
> Thanks Thomas


I'd just recommend using a different cable if you want to have more DAC options. There are Lightning to USB-B cables, or you can use a standard USB-A to USB-B cable with a Lightning (Male) to USB-A (female) adapter.


----------



## sonicsailor

Can anyone explain how the Hypsos Oor stack standby mode works? I have the Hypsos set to dim the logo when it goes into standby, but after 30 minutes it’s still bright.


----------



## Vanheim

Will receive my Oor & Hypsos stack by 8th May. Cannot wait to pair it with my HD6XX, Modhouse Argon mk3 and MrSpeakers Alpha Primes!


----------



## sparkylarky

sonicsailor said:


> Can anyone explain how the Hypsos Oor stack standby mode works? I have the Hypsos set to dim the logo when it goes into standby, but after 30 minutes it’s still bright.


You can turn off the logo light when in standby under Settings -> Visuals -> Standby Fe Brightness (set to Disabled)


----------



## sonicsailor

sparkylarky said:


> You can turn off the logo light when in standby under Settings -> Visuals -> Standby Fe Brightness (set to Disabled)


Yes, I get that, but when does the power supply go into standby mode?, e.g. after how long, and should the amp be shut off for that to happen?


----------



## SlothRock

I asked this earlier but got no bites - has anyone used the OOR to drive studio monitors using the pre-amp? If so, is it any good? Plenty of power I'd assume?


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Vanheim said:


> Will receive my Oor & Hypsos stack by 8th May. Cannot wait to pair it with my HD6XX, Modhouse Argon mk3 and MrSpeakers Alpha Primes!


Interesting upgrade path.  How did you go about deciding that Orr+Hypsos was your optimal amp at this time?

Did you decide you love your current headphones and wanted to get the most out of them while setting yourself up for upgrading headphones later?


----------



## sparkylarky

sonicsailor said:


> Yes, I get that, but when does the power supply go into standby mode?, e.g. after how long, and should the amp be shut off for that to happen?


Press and hold for a bit the knob to turn the Hypsos on or off in standby mode (which in turn will power on or off the Oor or other connected device).


----------



## dudeX

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Interesting upgrade path.  How did you go about deciding that Orr+Hypsos was your optimal amp at this time?
> 
> Did you decide you love your current headphones and wanted to get the most out of them while setting yourself up for upgrading headphones later?


I detect a bit of facetiousness even though it’s serious. 

But I have an HD6XX and a Zeus and it sounds amazing on the Oor.


----------



## Vanheim

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Interesting upgrade path.  How did you go about deciding that Orr+Hypsos was your optimal amp at this time?
> 
> Did you decide you love your current headphones and wanted to get the most out of them while setting yourself up for upgrading headphones later?


It’s not that it was my optimal amp at THIS time, but more so it has always been part of my ideal set up I’ve wanted to own. So when I got an opportunity to own it, I prioritised it over all else. I know I won’t be selling this anytime soon, since I’ve heard this before at a friend’s place and could tell this fits my tastes well. Also the small (relative to its competition) form factor really attracted me as space and weight will be an issue for me moving forward as I will be travelling abroad to study.

And yes the second part of your question is exactly right. My current headphones although not summit-fi by any means, still scale like mad and will certainly benefit from the Oor. More so than if I got a summit-fi headphone and later got this amp. That’s just how I wanted to pursue my system building.


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

My own personal experience is everything is a lot more controlled on this combo. The Hypsos/Orr are both very tight in their reproduction. Possibly the tightest I’ve listened to yet.

My only gripe has been since I got my Susvara the sound stage still feels small in comparison to the V2 Arya I owned and while I’m aware most headphones sense of depth won’t reach the V2’s level. I feel the Susvara is capable of a wider sound stage than it’s currently producing on the Hypsos/Oor.

I’m using D90SE (in 5v mode) paired with the Susvara/Hypsos/Oor.

I wonder if it’s because the D90SE isn’t pushing enough voltage for this setup.


----------



## krude (Apr 29, 2022)

Jonathan Crouch said:


> My own personal experience is everything is a lot more controlled on this combo. The Hypsos/Orr are both very tight in their reproduction. Possibly the tightest I’ve listened to yet.
> 
> My only gripe has been since I got my Susvara the sound stage still feels small in comparison to the V2 Arya I owned and while I’m aware most headphones sense of depth won’t reach the V2’s level. I feel the Susvara is capable of a wider sound stage than it’s currently producing on the Hypsos/Oor.
> 
> ...


To maximise sound stage you can do 3 things:
1. Use a dual mono DAC or a DAC that is known for stage (like Chord).
2. Use tubes (pre or full amp), again choose a piece that is known for excellent stage.
3. Use a dual mono amp that again is known for excellent stage (like Volot or Soloist GT).

You will sacrifice some detail with most tube pre and amps (unless you go into totl territory) and tonality and presentation with Volot and GT ...

So I would advise starting with a DAC upgrade. Probably May or 2nd hand Dave will give you the best value when it comes to stage and voltage.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

krude said:


> To maximise sound stage you can do 3 things:
> 1. Use a dual mono DAC or a DAC that is known for stage (like Chord).
> 2. Use tubes (pre or full amp), again choose a piece that is known for excellent stage.
> 3. Use a dual mono amp that again is known for excellent stage (like Volot or Soloist GT).
> ...


Or you could try pad rolling; it's a much cheaper alternative and the differences could be much larger than switching gear.


----------



## krude

chargedcapacitor said:


> Or you could try pad rolling; it's a much cheaper alternative and the differences could be much larger than switching gear.


For Susvara its not that easy to roll pads and stock pads are surprisingly good. You can do the old trick of stuffing a roll of tissue undeneath the pad to get more space inside the cups to get some stage for free.


----------



## PhazeCrive

How's the Oor playing with 1266 TC? I might sell off the Soloist 3XGT to get this instead. Solid, powerful bass? Soundstage and imaging okay?


----------



## krude (Apr 29, 2022)

PhazeCrive said:


> How's the Oor playing with 1266 TC? I might sell off the Soloist 3XGT to get this instead. Solid, powerful bass? Soundstage and imaging okay?


Darker, smaller stage but better imaging. Amazing midrange detail, strong fast bass. I would say the bass is a bit stronger, mids are noticably better with more micro detail, top end is smoother and a bit darker (less air). It has twice the power of the GT as well but this doesn't matter much for TC. You'll run it balanced on 0 gain no problem.

Also due to more midrange focus it improves TCs tonality a bit.


----------



## PhazeCrive (Apr 29, 2022)

Staging in headphones is nothing crazy to me. Imaging is better part to have, imo, and it all pales in comparison to speakers anyway so a smaller stage isn't a deal breaker. I was looking for a little bit more bass heft than what the GT is offering. I find it okay, but nothing crazy. Ferrum Oor was looking promising with that 2k starter price. The Xiaudio stuff is a little out of budget atm.


----------



## SlothRock

krude said:


> Darker, smaller stage but better imaging. Amazing midrange detail, strong fast bass. I would say the bass is a bit stronger, mids are noticably better with more micro detail, top end is smoother and a bit darker (less air). It has twice the power of the GT as well but this doesn't matter much for TC. You'll run it balanced on 0 gain no problem.
> 
> Also due to more midrange focus it improves TCs tonality a bit.



Did you end up selling your GT? It's still on your gear list but I know you were going back and forth about which one to keep haha


----------



## krude

SlothRock said:


> Did you end up selling your GT? It's still on your gear list but I know you were going back and forth about which one to keep haha


Still have it and actually I use it the most  Oor is objectively better in many ways but GT has this larger than life airy "swiss" sound 🥰


----------



## Delta9K

PhazeCrive said:


> I find it okay, but nothing crazy. Ferrum Oor was looking promising with that 2k starter price.


You really do want to get the Hypsos with the OOR, so that's closer to $3K starter price. On its own the OOR is not as impressive and you may be better served with your current GT.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

krude said:


> Still have it and actually I use it the most  Oor is objectively better in many ways but GT has this larger than life airy "swiss" sound 🥰


Have you tried using the Hypsos as the power supply for the GT?


----------



## krude

chargedcapacitor said:


> Have you tried using the Hypsos as the power supply for the GT?


Yeah but ended up getting the Taga conditioner and just using SC.


----------



## SlothRock (Apr 29, 2022)

krude said:


> Still have it and actually I use it the most  Oor is objectively better in many ways but GT has this larger than life airy "swiss" sound 🥰


I know measurements aren't everything but the OOR has been measured and actually measures really well with low distortion and such. The GT hasn't been but other Burson products have been and it feels like they favor having that favorable distortion in the 2nd and 3rd harmonics. I imagine that would lead the Ferrum to being more analytical/revealing and the GT to having more of a musical flavoring to it akin to tube amps. My GT is certainly very musical.


----------



## sonicsailor

sparkylarky said:


> Press and hold for a bit the knob to turn the Hypsos on or off in standby mode (which in turn will power on or off the Oor or other connected device).


Thanks, that works. 
I was hoping the Hypsos would automatically enter standby mode after shutting off the Oor. When we have a power interruption the Hypsos boots to full on, and stays there; if it would automatically enter standby mode we might be more energy efficient.


----------



## PhazeCrive

Actually, while tempting to try the Ferrum, I do like the sound of the GT. I find it has to be like 2 A.M. for the bass and soundstage to really come alive and when it does it's kinda hard to start asking for more. During the day it's kinda average and not too impressive. I reckon a power conditioner would fix this daytime issue. Any recommendations?


----------



## krude

PhazeCrive said:


> Actually, while tempting to try the Ferrum, I do like the sound of the GT. I find it has to be like 2 A.M. for the bass and soundstage to really come alive and when it does it's kinda hard to start asking for more. During the day it's kinda average and not too impressive. I reckon a power conditioner would fix this daytime issue. Any recommendations?


Indeed, power is key. Dedicated wall socket would be best. I use Taga PC5000 and it made a huge difference amd it's very good value. You do need a dedicated audio solution.


----------



## PhazeCrive (Apr 30, 2022)

I looked up the Taga and Idk. I didn't trust the site I found it on, which was this on hifisound, and that was the only thing that popped up. I live in the states, so would this even work with my plug types?


----------



## krude

PhazeCrive said:


> I looked up the Taga and Idk. I didn't trust the site I found it on, which was this on hifisound, and that was the only thing that popped up. I live in the states, so would this even work with my plug types?


Don't know if they sell to the states 🤔 

https://www.tagaharmony.com/en/products/3655/home-electronics/product/9057/pc-5000


----------



## chargedcapacitor

PhazeCrive said:


> I looked up the Taga and Idk. I didn't trust the site I found it on, which was this on hifisound, and that was the only thing that popped up. I live in the states, so would this even work with my plug types?


I'm telling you guys, just get a 1500VA cyberpower pure sine UPS. Gobs of power, cheap, and it measure exponentially better than most "audiophile" power conditioners. On top of that, it's a battery back up.


----------



## rsbrsvp

I have read many reviews of this OOr/Hypsos and they contradict each other.

Some say- it is dead neutral and only reveals the dac with no coloration.

Others say it is natural and not neutral and slightly warm and full bodied, and also shaves off glare from the top.

Which is it????  Can someone explain why there are conflicting ecplanations?


----------



## IanB52

rsbrsvp said:


> I have read many reviews of this OOr/Hypsos and they contradict each other.
> 
> Some say- it is dead neutral and only reveals the dac with no coloration.
> 
> ...


I'd personally call it dead neutral. There are other "transparent" amps that have more brightness or harshness. In this case, the reason the Oor+Hypsos have little fatigue isn't because they roll off anything or add warmth, but because they have little distortion, nor the sterile, processed/negative feedback-type "clean" sound that can be flat and fatiguing.


----------



## chesebert (May 1, 2022)

sounds neutral to me. neutral and full bodied are not mutually exclusive audio qualities. Even warmth may not necessarily result from deviation from flat frequency response (e.g., higher 2nd and 3rd order harmonics, better high current delivery, etc.)


----------



## krude

rsbrsvp said:


> I have read many reviews of this OOr/Hypsos and they contradict each other.
> 
> Some say- it is dead neutral and only reveals the dac with no coloration.
> 
> ...


It depends on the power from my experience. Good power without conditioning would be full bodied slightly warm off neutral. If you use conditioning it will make it sound a bit leaner so you can hit neutral.


----------



## rsbrsvp

Would you say it's sharp?

I'm looking for a more organic presentation............  I obviously want detail but with a focus on the whole, on the flow;- not a microscope dissecting the music.


----------



## euter

It isn't sharp at all. OOR has very smooth sound presentation with great detail and soundstage. No fatifue even when you're listen it many hours.


----------



## rsbrsvp

I have a audio-gd HE-9.  Would this be any sort of upgrade or pretty similar?


----------



## krude (May 1, 2022)

rsbrsvp said:


> I have a audio-gd HE-9.  Would this be any sort of upgrade or pretty similar?


At this level you really have to test a piece in your system and decide with your ears. Hard to talk better or worse.

I'd say Ferrum stack is definitely worth checking out. One of the best at this price point imo.


----------



## rsbrsvp

This review very much implies coloration:

https://soundnews.net/amplifiers/he...he-funtastic-ferrum-audio-oor-and-hypsos-psu/

This review says "dead neutral":

https://www.headfonia.com/ferrum-audio-oor-review/2/

There are many other contradictory reviews.  Just google "oor Ferrum review" and read them.  Half say neutral.  Half seem to imply colored.


----------



## Gavin C4 (May 1, 2022)

rsbrsvp said:


> This review very much implies coloration:
> 
> https://soundnews.net/amplifiers/he...he-funtastic-ferrum-audio-oor-and-hypsos-psu/
> 
> ...


I would say it is really right there in between the Neutral and Natural sound. This is what makes the Hypsos / OOR special. The entire presentation is clean and detailed and very balanced across the entire frequency. Since there is no exaggerated treble or brightness, it makes you enjoy the mids and vocals and bass slam. Especially with Utopia and Susvara, it really makes them slam in the bass in terms of quality, but not adding excessive quantity. In which it might make you feel that the OOR is slightly in the north of neutral with a slight warmth.

Most importantly it really depends on the pairing, since the Hypsos and OOR are very transparent, it will be a very slight warm pairing if I connect the OOR to Holo May DAC, because this DAC has slightly more macro presentation. The OOR will be more neutral if I connect to the dCS Rossini DAC. And paired with dCS bartok will be very neutral. This is a relative comparison between different DACs paired with OOR. This is why the Hypsos / OOR scales so well with your gear. It does not mask over your upfront source.

A different reviewers would hear differently and would have different listening experiences and gear they compare with. They are enthusiasts who listen to music and either slightly warm or neutral is their impression. Most importantly, there is no plagiarism. Or else every amp reviewed will simply be classified as neutral or warm or bright. There are other characteristics that make amps different from each other. At the end of the day take all reviews with a grain of salt. Hope you could find a demo or in house trial of the Hypsos OOR stack. It is really a wonderful piece of gear.


----------



## chesebert

rsbrsvp said:


> This review very much implies coloration:
> 
> https://soundnews.net/amplifiers/he...he-funtastic-ferrum-audio-oor-and-hypsos-psu/
> 
> ...


Most reviewers (few exceptions) are shills and marketers and all they do is put the component in and run a few test tracks and fill in their generic review template that reads like an ad. They don’t compare and they for sure will not try the component in multiple setups. 

OOR is pretty good but overpriced for what it is. I also think pretty lowly of Audiogd stuff just FYI.


----------



## bneiderman (May 1, 2022)

So I was listening to the Ferrum stack last night and had my Empire Ears EVO plugged into the balanced XLR port using an adapter. I noticed that if I changed the volume quickly while nothing was playing I heard a static type noise that was there only while the volume knob was moving but disappeared as soon as I stopped. This obviously was way more evident at the high gain setting. I then tried my ZMF Atrium using the single ended input and noticed the same thing. There was also slight noise floor with the EVO that I don't have with my Topping A90 either. I guess not as black. Either way I want to know if anyone else hears this static noise while changing the volume. I would appreciate any help. Thanks guys!


----------



## Gavin C4

bneiderman said:


> So I was listening to the Ferrum stack last night and had my Empire Ears EVO plugged into the balanced XLR port using an adapter. I noticed that if I changed the volume quickly while nothing was playing I heard a static type noise that was there only while the volume knob was moving but disappeared as soon as I stopped. This obviously was way more evident at the high gain setting. I then tried my ZMF Atrium using the single ended input and noticed the same thing. There was also slight noise floor with the EVO that I don't have with my Topping A90 either. I guess not as black. Either way I want to know if anyone else hears this static noise while changing the volume. I would appreciate any help. Thanks guys!



Using Utopia and Susvara and TC with the Hypsos OOR stack, I could not detect any static noise while changing the volume.


----------



## IanB52

chesebert said:


> Most reviewers (few exceptions) are shills and marketers and all they do is put the component in and run a few test tracks and fill in their generic review template that reads like an ad. They don’t compare and they for sure will not try the component in multiple setups.
> 
> OOR is pretty good but overpriced for what it is. I also think pretty lowly of Audiogd stuff just FYI.


Man, if you think Ferrum is overpriced, wait till you listen to literally every SS headphone amp that costs more than it. I've had 3 SS amps here that cost on average twice the Oor+Hypsos combo and Ferrum was most transparent, powerful, and smooth.


----------



## Roasty

was swapping around power cords and ended up really liking the AQ Tornado source with the Hypsos. preferred it over Atlas EOS 4dd, WyWires Digital Juice ii and TWL Digital and TWL 7 Plus. 

saw a good deal on some iFi nova power cords and was thinking of trying those out. 

anyone tried/considering changing the power link cable between hypsos and oor?


----------



## chesebert (May 1, 2022)

IanB52 said:


> Man, if you think Ferrum is overpriced, wait till you listen to literally every SS headphone amp that costs more than it. I've had 3 SS amps here that cost on average twice the Oor+Hypsos combo and Ferrum was most transparent, powerful, and smooth.


People can price their products however much they want if they can sell it to someone - so I can care less if manufacturers are racing each other to the moon.

OOR was definitely NOT the most transparent, powerful and smooth SS amplifier I have heard. It's a good amp as I have already noted previously and works well across dynamics and planar. I think 2-2.5k is probably the right price for the combo. It's obviously not a stupidly overpriced piece like EF1000.


----------



## kingoftown1

Roasty said:


> was swapping around power cords and ended up really liking the AQ Tornado source with the Hypsos. preferred it over Atlas EOS 4dd, WyWires Digital Juice ii and TWL Digital and TWL 7 Plus.
> 
> saw a good deal on some iFi nova power cords and was thinking of trying those out.
> 
> anyone tried/considering changing the power link cable between hypsos and oor?


Probably not a helpful answer, but I changed the cable to use with the SU6 (though it was out of necessity since I was sent the wrong barrel size).  

Weipu connector
I'd recommend using this Elecaudio dc connector (if using the Hypsos with devices other than the Oor. The one supplied by Ferrum is also Elecaudio, but it's gold plated brass where this one has a copper base.
I used whatever mogami/canare I had at the time, since I was in a hurry to just use it.  Going back, I'd probably create my own starquad out of Neotech 18gauge PTFE and apply JSSG 360 shielding, or just use gotham GAC-4/1 Ultra Pro.
Ugh, now that you have me thinking about it, i'll probably have to go do it.  DC cable upgrades were huge with the HDPlex; I don't expect this to be any different.


----------



## IanB52

chesebert said:


> People can price their products however much they want if they can sell it to someone - so I can care less if manufacturers are racing each other to the moon.
> 
> OOR was definitely NOT the most transparent, powerful and smooth SS amplifier I have heard. It's a good amp as I have already noted previously and works well across dynamics and planar. I think 2-2.5k is probably the right price for the combo. It's obviously not a stupidly overpriced piece like EF1000.


It just seems weird to me to say that based on the current market these are overpriced, when by that logic basically every over TOTL SS amp is _spectacularly_ overpriced. I mean yeah, it would be great if everything I like cost a $100 or less, but there actually is a loose market value that exists. 

I've gone through the whole lineup of current TOTL regarded SS headphone amps (besides Wells Headtrip) and not one of them was as transparent to my DAC as the Oor+Hypsos. Even the comment "good for the price" doesn't make sense to me, and especially "overpriced" seems more like fantasy.


----------



## chesebert

Enjoy the amp. In the grand scheme of things it's the price of a streamer, not a big deal.


----------



## Gavin C4 (May 2, 2022)

,,Pricing is only relative to ones affordability. As we all know diminish returns kicks in. Most important thing is that the Hypsos OOR stack allows me to enjoy my Utopia and Susvara with great synergy and mached my personal preference. While other competitor's SS does not really cut it. It would not buy any SS that does not performs well with Susvara, even it only cost 100 bucks, it's not worth it.


----------



## duranxv

chargedcapacitor said:


> I'm telling you guys, just get a 1500VA cyberpower pure sine UPS. Gobs of power, cheap, and it measure exponentially better than most "audiophile" power conditioners. On top of that, it's a battery back up.



Don't high end audio gear already have their own voltage regulation and surge protection? Wouldn't a power conditioner be a bit redundant in this case?

To be honest, I haven't looked into power supplies, etc when it comes to an audio chain, but I can't imagine it would make much difference unless you live in an area with a really unreliable electric grid


----------



## dusty.ro (May 2, 2022)

chesebert said:


> Most reviewers (few exceptions) are shills and marketers and all they do is put the component in and run a few test tracks and fill in their generic review template that reads like an ad. They don’t compare and they for sure will not try the component in multiple setups.
> 
> OOR is pretty good but overpriced for what it is. I also think pretty lowly of Audiogd stuff just FYI.


I don't know who are the exceptions you are referring to, but it saddens me to know that you guys think that. I personally know one reviewer who works his ass off for every review. Not to mention my own reviews, when I used to do them. I'd be working 2 weeks straight for a review and the amount of work required is a lot. Until you start doing it yourself you have no idea. There are obvious shills out there but by their nature of being obvious we can skip them.


----------



## IanB52

duranxv said:


> Don't high end audio gear already have their own voltage regulation and surge protection? Wouldn't a power conditioner be a bit redundant in this case?
> 
> To be honest, I haven't looked into power supplies, etc when it comes to an audio chain, but I can't imagine it would make much difference unless you live in an area with a really unreliable electric grid


It's mainly about audio quality. Explanation defies conventional engineering wisdom, but power products make a big difference in how components sound, and despite the notions about "properly engineered" equipment, almost _nothing_ is totally impervious to noise on the AC mains and from other components, and high quality external PSUs are generally better than the cheaper switch mode power supplies in the component itself (up to a point).


----------



## bneiderman

Gavin C4 said:


> Using Utopia and Susvara and TC with the Hypsos OOR stack, I could not detect any static noise while changing the volume.


Ok thanks for that. I have sent email to HEM to see what they say. Hopefully not defective.


----------



## Roasty

kingoftown1 said:


> Probably not a helpful answer, but I changed the cable to use with the SU6 (though it was out of necessity since I was sent the wrong barrel size).
> 
> Weipu connector
> I'd recommend using this Elecaudio dc connector (if using the Hypsos with devices other than the Oor. The one supplied by Ferrum is also Elecaudio, but it's gold plated brass where this one has a copper base.
> ...



Thanks very much for that info. helpful links too! I notice the stock is using canare 4s6 cabling which is already starquad. let us know if you decide to try it with the Gotham gac. I have a few dc cables from Ghent using the Gotham cables and I quite like them.


----------



## duranxv

IanB52 said:


> It's mainly about audio quality. Explanation defies conventional engineering wisdom, but power products make a big difference in how components sound, and despite the notions about "properly engineered" equipment, almost _nothing_ is totally impervious to noise on the AC mains and from other components, and high quality external PSUs are generally better than the cheaper switch mode power supplies in the component itself (up to a point).



The question is though, is the "AC noise" within the audible range of human hearing?  Even if something measures better, if you can't hear it, then does it really matter?


----------



## sparkylarky

chesebert said:


> Most reviewers (few exceptions) are shills and marketers and all they do is put the component in and run a few test tracks and fill in their generic review template that reads like an ad. They don’t compare and they for sure will not try the component in multiple setups.
> 
> OOR is pretty good but overpriced for what it is. I also think pretty lowly of Audiogd stuff just FYI.


I agree that the Ferrum stack is not cheap but I have not regretted getting it for one second, always the best indicator that a product is very good (in my little world of course), can't say that for a lot of other audio gear including (most) headphones.


----------



## IanB52

duranxv said:


> The question is though, is the "AC noise" within the audible range of human hearing?  Even if something measures better, if you can't hear it, then does it really matter?


It's absolutely audible. You can hear the effects of power conditioners etc over a YouTube video. 

It is a subject to itself, but this noise is something you notice for the first time immediately only when it is gone. In most components I would describe it as "modulated noise", that is not an independent noise floor, but noise that is embedded in the signal itself.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

IanB52 said:


> It's absolutely audible. You can hear the effects of power conditioners etc over a YouTube video.
> 
> It is a subject to itself, but this noise is something you notice for the first time immediately only when it is gone. In most components I would describe it as "modulated noise", that is not an independent noise floor, but noise that is embedded in the signal itself.


So... harmonic distortion?


----------



## IanB52

chargedcapacitor said:


> So... harmonic distortion?


It's possible some is involved, but fundamentally this is a different thing. Harmonic distortion typically clips the top of the waveform and then adds specific harmonics to the sound which changes the timbre. To my ears, power noise is more like modulated white noise accompanying the signal. It's been a big rabbit hole to get as much out of my system as possible. 

Besides noise, power supplies etc also impact other aspects of playback like transients, dynamics, bass, etc. You can hear this by adding a Hypsos and same effect when adding the Powerman to Formula S. Similar with improved power cables etc.


----------



## tawmizzzz

IanB52 said:


> It's absolutely audible. You can hear the effects of power conditioners etc over a YouTube video.
> 
> It is a subject to itself, but this noise is something you notice for the first time immediately only when it is gone. In most components I would describe it as "modulated noise", that is not an independent noise floor, but noise that is embedded in the signal itself.


I’m with you-both on your ferrum impressions and the importance of power conditioners. My apartment has presumably poor circuitry being it’s an old building and occasional outages. I tried a furman PST8 and immediately heard a brighter, flatter, more congested difference versus my basic $30 power outlet. No bueno. 

Decided to try the AudioQuest Niagara1200 (powered with the AQ Blizzard power cable) as they were risk-free purchases, and immediately heard a different presentation to the Furman—pitch black background, dynamics (especially micro), and just a smoother top end. I came in with ZERO expectations, ready to return it but now it’s a keeper. The extra dynamics and overall texture are exactly what I wanted for my Spring 3/Ferrum combo. 

Snake oil? Immeasurable? Idk-maybe, but my ears are happy I took the chance to explore.


----------



## AcousticMatt (May 2, 2022)

Hey everyone! New here...

I just wanted to share that I have the Ferrum Oor (and am using it with Hypsos) and, even though I've not heard it mentioned, it's pretty awesome with the LCD2s (2020 Fazor version, haven't heard the other iterations). I use the iFi Diablo with these LCD2s and even though that's got its own rad sound going on, jumping from that to the Oor + Hypsos really opened up the soundstage. There was more spaciousness and the separation was better too. Clean visceral impact was better too. Granted, I'm using a Chord Qutest, so I'm sure that's helping, but... Ferrum Oor + Hypsos: not just for headphones like the Susvara!


----------



## IanB52

tawmizzzz said:


> I’m with you-both on your ferrum impressions and the importance of power conditioners. My apartment has presumably poor circuitry being it’s an old building and occasional outages. I tried a furman PST8 and immediately heard a brighter, flatter, more congested difference versus my basic $30 power outlet. No bueno.
> 
> Decided to try the AudioQuest Niagara1200 (powered with the AQ Blizzard power cable) as they were risk-free purchases, and immediately heard a different presentation to the Furman—pitch black background, dynamics (especially micro), and just a smoother top end. I came in with ZERO expectations, ready to return it but now it’s a keeper. The extra dynamics and overall texture are exactly what I wanted for my Spring 3/Ferrum combo.
> 
> Snake oil? Immeasurable? Idk-maybe, but my ears are happy I took the chance to explore.


Nice. I've heard the Niagra is really good, and have had good experiences with Audioquest cables. Everything you said about the presentation, is what I've experienced with similar products. I started with Shunyata cables that have some noise reduction in them, and liked the sound enough that I followed that path and now have a Denali v2 power distributor/filter.


----------



## Gavin C4

I have been using my Ferrum Stack with Lightspeed reference MK 3 passive power conditioner. I have great results compared to not using. Generally I get a blacker background and more dynamic range overall. It really depends on your local power quality when choosing power conditioners. Even though the Hypsos is providing quite and clean power to the amp, having a better quality power from the start can still yield very obvious results because your entire chain including DAC, Streamer, Preamps amd Headphones amps will all benefit from higher quality power.


----------



## duranxv

IanB52 said:


> Nice. I've heard the Niagra is really good, and have had good experiences with Audioquest cables. Everything you said about the presentation, is what I've experienced with similar products. I started with Shunyata cables that have some noise reduction in them, and liked the sound enough that I followed that path and now have a Denali v2 power distributor/filter.



I typically don't agree with anything from ASR, but it's hard to argue with Amir's review of the Niagra.  It doesn't make a difference in the audible frequency range


----------



## IanB52 (May 4, 2022)

duranxv said:


> I typically don't agree with anything from ASR, but it's hard to argue with Amir's review of the Niagra.  It doesn't make a difference in the audible frequency range


The one thing he doesn't do is hook up a system to the Niagra and put a microphone on the speaker and compare the recorded audio. Unless he starts measuring the output of the system in a way other people can hear, with actual music, it doesn't mean a lot to me. On the flip side, I've watched YouTube videos that did just that and it was noticeable enough off my laptop speakers.

Amir did a similar test with a PS Audio P15 regenerator, something I owned at one point, and claimed it doesn't make an audible difference based on his test. As for myself, I sold it _because_ of the audible difference.


----------



## Arniesb

IanB52 said:


> The one thing he doesn't do is hook up a system to the Niagra and put a microphone on the speaker and compare the recorded audio. Unless he starts measuring the output of the system in a way other people can hear, with actual music, it doesn't mean a lot to me. On the flip side, I've watched YouTube videos that did just that and it was noticeable enough off my laptop speakers.
> 
> Amir did a similar test with a PS Audio P15 regenerator, something I owned at one point, and claimed it doesn't make an audible difference based on his test. As for myself, I sold it _because_ of the audible difference.


I really doubt it can improve dac or amp since those have 99perc better supplies... It very well could be improvement for your source.


----------



## Gavin C4

Abyss Headphones actually made a very detailed video on their youtube channel talking about different kinds of power conditioner that solve different problems
Different conditioner have a different kind of design and intend to solve different problem. For example, audioquest conditoner use lots of filter coil to reduce the noise. PS audio regenerate sine waves. Shunyata Reseach and Chang Lightspeed use passive materials to reduce noise. They all target different kinds of problems. At the end of the day, whether if they makes a difference, you would need to listen it for yourself. Hopefully you could get a in house demo.


----------



## IanB52 (May 5, 2022)

Gavin C4 said:


> Abyss Headphones actually made a very detailed video on their youtube channel talking about different kinds of power conditioner that solve different problems
> Different conditioner have a different kind of design and intend to solve different problem. For example, audioquest conditoner use lots of filter coil to reduce the noise. PS audio regenerate sine waves. Shunyata Reseach and Chang Lightspeed use passive materials to reduce noise. They all target different kinds of problems. At the end of the day, whether if they makes a difference, you would need to listen it for yourself. Hopefully you could get a in house demo.



One runs into a lot of flack surrounding Abyss, and you can get a negative impression from things you read here and there. But more and more I think they really know what they are doing and understand how to get a high quality system from experience, and they build a really good headphone. Having owned two of those four conditioners I can say they know what they are talking about.


----------



## SlothRock

How is this amp from a reliability standpoint now? I know when it first came out there were a good amount of issues folks were having but haven’t seen much about that recently. Did Ferrum fix the problems? All reliable now?


----------



## ChJL

chargedcapacitor said:


> I'm telling you guys, just get a 1500VA cyberpower pure sine UPS. Gobs of power, cheap, and it measure exponentially better than most "audiophile" power conditioners. On top of that, it's a battery back up.


Indeed a tempting price tag compared to audio specific products used by most! Wouldn't that be nice... Where do you get the measurements from? Exponentially better because you have owned what conditioners/enhancers before?


----------



## 801evan

UPS was one of the worst solutions for audio. Battery doesn't sound good and those kind of things have low purity conductors.


----------



## ChJL

chargedcapacitor said:


> I'm telling you guys, just get a 1500VA cyberpower pure sine UPS. Gobs of power, cheap, and it measure exponentially better than most "audiophile" power conditioners. On top of that, it's a battery back up.





801evan said:


> UPS was one of the worst solutions for audio. Battery doesn't sound good and those kind of things have low purity conductors.


So you have owned one?


----------



## 801evan

ChJL said:


> So you have owned one?


Cyberpower is mostly 110v but I have 220v. One is better off with a powerbank method with good dc cables vs a UPS. I've tried 3 and tried it with a power conditioner after it. There's too much signal loss so the soundstage is small, the midbass is bloated, and the top is rolled off in the best case scenario. Better quality line conditioner straight to the wall is a better solution.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

ChJL said:


> Indeed a tempting price tag compared to audio specific products used by most! Wouldn't that be nice... Where do you get the measurements from? Exponentially better because you have owned what conditioners/enhancers before?


Anyone with an oscope can look at the noise in the wave form, and there are copious amounts of measurements online. I'm not replying to Evan, he's a troll that I've blocked. Anything he said is BS.


----------



## 801evan

Del


----------



## 801evan (May 6, 2022)

chargedcapacitor said:


> Anyone with an oscope can look at the noise in the wave form, and there are copious amounts of measurements online. I'm not replying to Evan, he's a troll that I've blocked. Anything he said is BS.


Ur gonna mention me but not respond to me? Lolz. You are only calling me a troll just because you can't set up your Dave (or some other chain...) to drive your headphones while I can and so you think I'm trolling people? Funny. And just because you can't get bass out of the Stealth and the Susvara you think no one else can? What a weird race to the bottom where someone who can't setup up a chain to drive HP correctly is more correct than one who can.

I've done full powerbank and UPS solutions and end of the day the chemicals of a battery can be heard in the music and it is not fast enough to meet the demands of high quality audio playback. A 500usd pure sine wave true offline solution won't have quality components and will just be a waste in the Hypsos. The Cyberpower is still line interactive so it still let's through ac mains and will only switch to battery if it detects low power from the line. So that means it doesn't even have noise rejection, or is using the battery back up and will just affect sound quality due to all the poor quality components that increases resistance before the audio device.








Looks like the Cyberpower needs another Cyberpower after it.


----------



## ChJL

Gavin C4 said:


> Abyss Headphones actually made a very detailed video on their youtube channel talking about different kinds of power conditioner that solve different problems
> Different conditioner have a different kind of design and intend to solve different problem. For example, audioquest conditoner use lots of filter coil to reduce the noise. PS audio regenerate sine waves. Shunyata Reseach and Chang Lightspeed use passive materials to reduce noise. They all target different kinds of problems. At the end of the day, whether if they makes a difference, you would need to listen it for yourself. Hopefully you could get a in house demo.



So Hypsos makes a whole lot of sense right? 
Conclusions
1. Use an oscilloscope and line meter to measure
2. run a dedicated line to an audio grade socket
3. if 1 doesn't show bad results one doesn't necessarily need an extra box
4. If one needs/wants a regenerator then go for a dual conversion UPS fully online all the time, always regenerating power.
PS Audio mentioned often...

What does dual conversion mean?


----------



## ChJL (May 6, 2022)

801evan said:


> Ur gonna mention me but not respond to me? Lolz. You are only calling me a troll just because you can't set up your Dave (or some other chain...) to drive your headphones while I can and so you think I'm trolling people? Funny. And just because you can't get bass out of the Stealth and the Susvara you think no one else can? What a weird race to the bottom where someone who can't setup up a chain to drive HP correctly is more correct than one who can.
> 
> I've done full powerbank and UPS solutions and end of the day the chemicals of a battery can be heard in the music and it is not fast enough to meet the demands of high quality audio playback. A 500usd pure sine wave true offline solution won't have quality components and will just be a waste in the Hypsos. The Cyberpower is still line interactive so it still let's through ac mains and will only switch to battery if it detects low power from the line. So that means it doesn't even have noise rejection, or is using the battery back up and will just affect sound quality due to all the poor quality components that increases resistance before the audio device.
> 
> ...


Just watched posted Abyss videos in which they advise against a cheap UPS...

I'm about a new system, first planned set up of a chain.
Has to fit for years to come.

Hypsos+Oor/Vio 550 Pro with Spring3/Gustard 26pro? Which combo for electronic?
So I've read through all threads and while in the 26 Pro thread they talk much DDC, USB boxes fuses...
I for one have to make a choice on power supply first.
Thanks for your advices!


----------



## 801evan

ChJL said:


> Just watched posted Abyss videos in which they advise against a cheap UPS...
> 
> I'm about a new system, first planned set up of a chain.
> Has to fit for years to come.
> ...


The most accessible solution is the ifi powerstation and it's within good budget. Mostly likely you are using copper cables so, you can scale with the ifi powerstation by adding more AC purifiers. I have grown out of those coz all my cables are silver occ now and needed beefier line conditioning.


----------



## ChJL

801evan said:


> The most accessible solution is the ifi powerstation and it's within good budget. Mostly likely you are using copper cables so, you can scale with the ifi powerstation by adding more AC purifiers. I have grown out of those coz all my cables are silver occ now and needed beefier line conditioning.


I'm tempted by a ps audio box, but getting great (silver) cables to all devices with a conditioner in between seems like a good option as well. Which line conditioner are you using now? It's still about Ferrum because the Hypsos has kind of lead me in this direction...


----------



## krude

ChJL said:


> I'm tempted by a ps audio box, but getting great (silver) cables to all devices with a conditioner in between seems like a good option as well. Which line conditioner are you using now? It's still about Ferrum because the Hypsos has kind of lead me in this direction...


Ferrum + Spring3 is getting great reviews on here. Im also really happy with my May L2, hard to upgrade from it without going stratospheric.


----------



## 801evan

ChJL said:


> I'm tempted by a ps audio box, but getting great (silver) cables to all devices with a conditioner in between seems like a good option as well. Which line conditioner are you using now? It's still about Ferrum because the Hypsos has kind of lead me in this direction...


I ended up contracting a electronics company to make a custom one for me which I then hooked up with audiophile components so it is not something available in the market. I would still find the powerstation + supanova + ac purifier as a better solution over a ps audio and it is still cheaper. If you read my other comments, the ifi elite always sounded better than the Hypsos despite me modding the hypsos with occ silver internals and occ silver dc cables.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

ChJL said:


> Just watched posted Abyss videos in which they advise against a cheap UPS...
> 
> I'm about a new system, first planned set up of a chain.
> Has to fit for years to come.
> ...


Don't get a cheap UPS, get a _good _UPS. Pure sine wave UPS's are used in labs and for expensive equipment with tolerances much lower than our audio equipment. A 1.5KW PSUPS will have a ton of reserve power; enough that a speaker amp can draw from it with zero issue.


----------



## ChJL (May 6, 2022)

801evan said:


> I ended up contracting a electronics company to make a custom one for me which I then hooked up with audiophile components so it is not something available in the market. I would still find the powerstation + supanova + ac purifier as a better solution over a ps audio and it is still cheaper. If you read my other comments, the ifi elite always sounded better than the Hypsos despite me modding the hypsos with occ silver internals and occ silver dc cables.


You have 839 messages on here. Please tell me what Version (Volts) of the elite you are using for the Oor AND I guess the powerstation is custom made? Who sells the supanova (if?) and which ac purifier do you use (if elite?) ? Thank you!


----------



## ChJL

krude said:


> Ferrum + Spring3 is getting great reviews on here. Im also really happy with my May L2, hard to upgrade from it without going stratospheric.


Yes that's my preferred choice...


----------



## ChJL

chargedcapacitor said:


> Don't get a cheap UPS, get a _good _UPS. Pure sine wave UPS's are used in labs and for expensive equipment with tolerances much lower than our audio equipment. A 1.5KW PSUPS will have a ton of reserve power; enough that a speaker amp can draw from it with zero issue.


The Eaton 9PX USP was recommended...


----------



## chesebert

chargedcapacitor said:


> Don't get a cheap UPS, get a _good _UPS. Pure sine wave UPS's are used in labs and for expensive equipment with tolerances much lower than our audio equipment. A 1.5KW PSUPS will have a ton of reserve power; enough that a speaker amp can draw from it with zero issue.


I honestly don’t understand your fascination with UPS but not willing to try a good streamer/bridge for the dac. I think UPS is completely unnecessary for most use cases. Isolation transformer is one thing that could be useful but UPS is not that.


----------



## 801evan

ChJL said:


> You have 839 messages on here. Please tell me what Version (Volts) of the elite you are using for the Oor AND I guess the powerstation is custom made? Who sells the supanova and which ac purifier do you use (if elite?) ? Thank you!


I've done tests with the hypsos vs Elite 15v/12v/5v on many devices and the Elite is always better. Power station, supanova and ac purifier is also ifi products.

For the OOR, elite 24v


----------



## chargedcapacitor

chesebert said:


> I honestly don’t understand your fascination with UPS but not willing to try a good streamer/bridge for the dac. I think UPS is completely unnecessary for most use cases. Isolation transformer is one thing that could be useful but UPS is not that.


If you live in a place with unreliable power, a UPS is a great way to lengthen the life of your components. And if you think dirty power is reducing the quality of your amplifier signal (not DAC), then a good UPS is one way to have piece of mind. Isolation transformers can also help in cases.


----------



## sparkylarky

ChJL said:


> Just watched posted Abyss videos in which they advise against a cheap UPS...
> 
> I'm about a new system, first planned set up of a chain.
> Has to fit for years to come.
> ...


I personally would not start with power but on the other end (headphones or speakers, then amplifier, then DAC [or analog]) and then maybe think about a power conditioner.
My personal setup is Headphones -> Ferrum stack -> Holo Spring 3 KTE -> PC (USB) without DDC and so far I am hesitating getting a power conditioner but I live in a house that has been built in 1997.
Power conditioners can improve the sound but sometimes also can make it worse, it all depends on your personal factors (old power lines in the house where you live, cabling, etc., etc.) and of course the power conditioner itself. 
What I am trying to say is that for some people expensive power conditioners did not make any difference but then for others they do, so starting your new chain with an expensive power conditioner might never make you realize if it improves the sound or not.


----------



## SlothRock

sparkylarky said:


> I personally would not start with power but on the other end (headphones or speakers, then amplifier, then DAC [or analog]) and then maybe think about a power conditioner.
> My personal setup is Headphones -> Ferrum stack -> Holo Spring 3 KTE -> PC (USB) without DDC and so far I am hesitating getting a power conditioner but I live in a house that has been built in 1997.
> Power conditioners can improve the sound but sometimes also can make it worse, it all depends on your personal factors (old power lines in the house where you live, cabling, etc., etc.) and of course the power conditioner itself.
> What I am trying to say is that for some people expensive power conditioners did not make any difference but then for others they do, so starting your new chain with an expensive power conditioner might never make you realize if it improves the sound or not.



Are you using the pre-amp in the KTE for active studio monitors by chance? I've asked a couple times in this thread about if people are using their Ferrum OOR/Hypsos preamp for active studio monitors but it seems no one is doing that for some reason. How is the pre-amp for the KTE into the studio monitors if that's your use case?


----------



## ChJL (May 6, 2022)

sparkylarky said:


> I personally would not start with power but on the other end (headphones or speakers, then amplifier, then DAC [or analog]) and then maybe think about a power conditioner.
> My personal setup is Headphones -> Ferrum stack -> Holo Spring 3 KTE -> PC (USB) without DDC and so far I am hesitating getting a power conditioner but I live in a house that has been built in 1997.
> Power conditioners can improve the sound but sometimes also can make it worse, it all depends on your personal factors (old power lines in the house where you live, cabling, etc., etc.) and of course the power conditioner itself.
> What I am trying to say is that for some people expensive power conditioners did not make any difference but then for others they do, so starting your new chain with an expensive power conditioner might never make you realize if it improves the sound or not.


I also tend to get a Ferrum stack/Spring 3 combo which I will buy first - X26 pro/Vio 550 pro alternatively.
Streamer is here already BUT I also think about the rest (power, USB, cables, even fuses which some are advocating for) I'm planning and calculating.
Will probably try other headphones before that bring more variety?
Focusing on options brings good answers from more experienced folks!
Got some good tips today, will be quite again because I don't want to divert from the topic of this thread too much!


----------



## sparkylarky

SlothRock said:


> Are you using the pre-amp in the KTE for active studio monitors by chance? I've asked a couple times in this thread about if people are using their Ferrum OOR/Hypsos preamp for active studio monitors but it seems no one is doing that for some reason. How is the pre-amp for the KTE into the studio monitors if that's your use case?


Hi, no for headphones only. I am surrounded with neighbors in 5 directions, so a 2 channel/loudspeaker setup was never on my mind because of likely noise complaints and I LOVE to listen to music at a quite loud volume, so never tried to feed the KTE into loudspeakers, I hope other people on here can help out here.


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## IanB52 (May 6, 2022)

ChJL said:


> So Hypsos makes a whole lot of sense right?
> Conclusions
> 1. Use an oscilloscope and line meter to measure
> 2. run a dedicated line to an audio grade socket
> ...


I am of the opinion that Hypsos always improves Oor in all circumstances, it's just a better power supply. I'm also of the opinion that power conditioners will also change the sound somewhat under most situations, included dedicated lines. There is just so much noise that comes off the AC mains and even more that comes back off of the components themselves.

On paper the regenerators are the best. When I had one it worked absolutely as advertised where it comes to noise, detail, soundstage, etc. However, they do restrict current to some degree and the specific P15 I had caused a stiff, harsh, and fatiguing presentation. Maybe it was a lemon since plenty of people like these regenerators. It was a bit like turning the Hypsos all the way up to 30v, but more unnatural.

This is a reason one might consider passive conditioners, they can be more tonally transparent and less current limiting. The biggest problems with conditioners is that they can clean up the sound at the expense of taking the punch and fluidity out of it. That is less of a hazard with source gear, but the bigger your amplifiers, the more you might notice.

So generally from a listening standpoint, the ideal conditioner/distributor reduces noise and maintains a low distortion waveform, with the least restriction on current and least tonal change. For some the latter two qualities are actually the most important, and so they stick with the wall.


----------



## dusty.ro

Here's my Ferrum stack. I've tried so many combinations to get to this version. Went through Burson Soloist 3X GT, Flux Volot, iFi Pro iCAN Signature and finally the Ferrum OOR. Setting the voltage above 27 for the Susvara and using some Siltech Cables made this setup a dream.


----------



## SlothRock

Wow that is one BEAUTIFUL set up you have!!


----------



## dusty.ro

SlothRock said:


> Wow that is one BEAUTIFUL set up you have!!


Thank you. It was a lot of work to get it here with all the teaks and upgrades.


----------



## duranxv

Nice setup!  Out of curiosity, do you feel the Keces PSU's help?


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## 801evan (May 8, 2022)

IanB52 said:


> However, they do restrict current to some degree and the specific P15 I had caused a stiff, harsh, and fatiguing presentation.


I felt the same and went for the passive route. In hindsight, people who owns these power regens use class A since the units act as a power strip with the multiple outlets. But I think the class A power amps should skip the power regens, be straight to the wall, then evaluate that, which I haven't done. Though, the power regenerator line only does 10% noise reduction, which is only 20dB. AC purifiers are rated higher and so does the internal filter in the Hypsos, which is 40dB-60dB noise rejection.


----------



## Asterisk3095

So I've been curious about Ferrum for a while now, but I've had a lingering question I can't find the answer to! What exactly is the purpose of the Hypsos power supply (or any power supply for that matter)? Is it because a standard wall outlet isn't enough to power the OOR amp or ERCO DAC? Does it improve anything sonically?


----------



## 801evan

Asterisk3095 said:


> So I've been curious about Ferrum for a while now, but I've had a lingering question I can't find the answer to! What exactly is the purpose of the Hypsos power supply (or any power supply for that matter)? Is it because a standard wall outlet isn't enough to power the OOR amp or ERCO DAC? Does it improve anything sonically?


Power supply is the most important component. Even more important than what dac chip is inside. Good psu has good noise rejection and very low voltage fluctuations and this benefits audio playback.


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## Asterisk3095 (May 8, 2022)

801evan said:


> Power supply is the most important component. Even more important than what dac chip is inside. Good psu has good noise rejection and very low voltage fluctuations and this benefits audio playback.


Right of course, but doesn't the OOR amplifier already have an internal power supply? Why would anyone buy an external power supply like the HYPSOS if the internal one is completely fine? (unless the OOR doesn't have one, and then there would probably be more complaints about having to buy a $1000+ power supply)


----------



## chesebert (May 8, 2022)

Asterisk3095 said:


> Right of course, but doesn't the OOR amplifier already have an internal power supply? Why would anyone buy an external power supply like the HYPSOS if the internal one is completely fine? (unless the OOR doesn't have one, and then there would probably be more complaints about having to buy a $1000+ power supply)


Doesn’t have one. It’s got a cheap PC power supply/wall wart.


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## Asterisk3095 (May 8, 2022)

chesebert said:


> Doesn’t have one. It’s got a cheap PC power supply/wall wart.


Oh I see! So then I assume that the HYPSOS provides a "filter" that allows power to travel to whatever amp it's paired with, but with less electrical interference which would help lower the noise floor/help the amplifier produce a cleaner sound? Thanks for the help! As you can probably tell, I haven't been into audio for very long, so it's very interesting learning new things nearly every day~


----------



## 801evan

Asterisk3095 said:


> Right of course, but doesn't the OOR amplifier already have an internal power supply? Why would anyone buy an external power supply like the HYPSOS if the internal one is completely fine? (unless the OOR doesn't have one, and then there would probably be more complaints about having to buy a $1000+ power supply)


Yes no internal psu as the other recent comment said. But to add, Burson for a couple of years were proud of their internal circuitry that they claimed it doesn't need a psu upgrade...except they offered a psu upgrade down the line to help the multistage internal power regulation. Then Hypsos is even better than the supercharger.


----------



## Asterisk3095

801evan said:


> Yes no internal psu as the other recent comment said. But to add, Burson for a couple of years were proud of their internal circuitry that they claimed it doesn't need a psu upgrade...except they offered a psu upgrade down the line to help the multistage internal power regulation. Then Hypsos is even better than the supercharger.


Alright cool! Thanks for the extra information. If I ever get one of Ferrum's amplifiers then I guess I can consider the HYPSOS as a small upgrade later on. Of course this definitely won't be anytime soon though. I still want to experience more headphones before I even consider looking at amps (solid state, not tubes), DACs, or power supplies since they're much smaller upgrades overall (but much bigger in price~).


----------



## chesebert

Asterisk3095 said:


> Alright cool! Thanks for the extra information. If I ever get one of Ferrum's amplifiers then I guess I can consider the HYPSOS as a small upgrade later on. Of course this definitely won't be anytime soon though. I still want to experience more headphones before I even consider looking at amps (solid state, not tubes), DACs, or power supplies since they're much smaller upgrades overall (but much bigger in price~).


You should buy the amp and power supply at the same time. Wall wart will severely impact amp's performance. Getting a good amp is a must if your goal is to properly experience more headphones. There are many high quality amps that don't cost a lot. If getting good service is important just buy a used Pass Labs amp and you will be set for many many years.


----------



## jonathan c

Asterisk3095 said:


> Alright cool! Thanks for the extra information. If I ever get one of Ferrum's amplifiers then I guess I can consider the HYPSOS as a small upgrade later on. Of course this definitely won't be anytime soon though. I still want to experience more headphones before I even consider looking at amps (solid state, not tubes), DACs, or power supplies since they're much smaller upgrades overall (but much bigger in price~).


HYPSOS would not be a _small_ upgrade…!


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## Asterisk3095

jonathan c said:


> HYPSOS would not be a _small_ upgrade…!


Hmm that's rather enticing then 

I will definitely buy both in that case if you very much recommend it! Thank you very much


----------



## 801evan

Asterisk3095 said:


> Hmm that's rather enticing then
> 
> I will definitely buy both in that case if you very much recommend it! Thank you very much


While I haven't tried it on the OOR, IFI Elite sounds better than the Hypsos in all my use cases across 5 devices. So for the OOR u need to get a 24v version.


----------



## Asterisk3095

chesebert said:


> You should buy the amp and power supply at the same time. Wall wart will severely impact amp's performance. Getting a good amp is a must if your goal is to properly experience more headphones. There are many high quality amps that don't cost a lot. If getting good service is important just buy a used Pass Labs amp and you will be set for many many years.


alright thanks for that advice! Still, I'm waiting until I own at least a few more pairs of headphones. Although I'd like to do so, it's not the best move to just suddenly jump to extremely high end products. I want to experience this hobby of mine more organically if you know what I mean!


----------



## Asterisk3095

801evan said:


> While I haven't tried it on the OOR, IFI Elite sounds better than the Hypsos in all my use cases across 5 devices. So for the OOR u need to get a 24v version.


Thanks I'll take that into consideration when the time comes. I'm sure there are many combos that can work well


----------



## IanB52

801evan said:


> I felt the same and went for the passive route. In hindsight, people who owns these power regens use class A since the units act as a power strip with the multiple outlets. But I think the class A power amps should skip the power regens, be straight to the wall, then evaluate that, which I haven't done. Though, the power regenerator line only does 10% noise reduction, which is only 20dB. AC purifiers are rated higher and so does the internal filter in the Hypsos, which is 40dB-60dB noise rejection.


I think the specs for the PS Audio regenerators are about 80db reduction. The Shunyata ones are about 60, but there is another 12db reduction in their cables. I don't know if class A fares any worse than class AB, but if you use a regen it's basically like doubling the power consumption of already power hungry amps. Regenerators are basically like a secondary amplifier between the main amp and the AC mains.


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## IanB52 (May 8, 2022)

801evan said:


> While I haven't tried it on the OOR, IFI Elite sounds better than the Hypsos in all my use cases across 5 devices. So for the OOR u need to get a 24v version.


I think the key variable with the OOR is likely the proprietary 4 pin connector. Hypsos is always going to have better performance with Ferrum gear because that connection which provides some kind of feedback between the two units.


----------



## 801evan

IanB52 said:


> I think the key variable with the OOR is likely the proprietary 4 pin connector. Hypsos is always going to have better performance with Ferrum gear because that connection which provides some kind of feedback between the two units.


I've turned off the sensing thing and it gave better quality via lesser noise.


----------



## rsbrsvp

Has anyone used a Freya + as a preamp. for the oor/hypsos?

If so- what were the results?


----------



## Gavin C4

Asterisk3095 said:


> Alright cool! Thanks for the extra information. If I ever get one of Ferrum's amplifiers then I guess I can consider the HYPSOS as a small upgrade later on. Of course this definitely won't be anytime soon though. I still want to experience more headphones before I even consider looking at amps (solid state, not tubes), DACs, or power supplies since they're much smaller upgrades overall (but much bigger in price~).



Having trying so many SS amps at various price ranges, I would say the Ferrum OOR Hypsos Stack is the safe pick for an high end SS amp to pair with your Totl headphones. The entite stack bundle, you do not need to worry about any power issue, totl detail and guarantee punchy bass for enjoyment.


----------



## Gavin C4

rsbrsvp said:


> Has anyone used a Freya + as a preamp. for the oor/hypsos?
> 
> If so- what were the results?



I have used schiit DACs and amp before, mjolnir 2, gungnir multibit, ygg and they all have a similar house sound of things are in your face, voices are inside your head. As a result I often have a prenotion that their house sound is in your face. I personally do not like such a presentation. It significantly collaps the stage and sounded wired, as if I am listening to a mono channel earphone. I have tried other preamps and it does not have such issue. Therefore, I personally parted ways from Schiit products. Their house sound is simply not my type. YMMV.


----------



## rsbrsvp

Gavin C4 said:


> .


do you use any tube preamp before the oor?


----------



## duranxv

rsbrsvp said:


> Has anyone used a Freya + as a preamp. for the oor/hypsos?
> 
> If so- what were the results?



I use the Woo Audio WA22 as a tube pre-amp into the OOR + Hypsos.  Pairs great. The tubes bring a more holographic and natural sound, which is then improved upon by a good solid state like the OOR to add just a little extra weight in the bass and of course some more power for power hungry headphones


----------



## Gavin C4

rsbrsvp said:


> do you use any tube preamp before the oor?



Mjolnir 2 has a free built in preamp function, thoguh not really a dedicated preamp. When using it with speakers it is fine, becuase you have to room and distance to make up the stage and reduces the in your face effect that I listen through headphones.


----------



## Roasty

those of you using the bypass function, did u guys notice any difference between rca vs xlr into the OOR?


----------



## Gavin C4

Roasty said:


> those of you using the bypass function, did u guys notice any difference between rca vs xlr into the OOR?



I really wanted to help but I do not have the same level of RCA and XLR cable. Only got some standard studio RCA cables and Crystal Cable XLR cables. Hopefully someone else can have a fair comparison?

I can see where you are from, as most DACs often only offer 1 pair of XLR and RCA output. For those who have multiple amps, you only have 1 pair of balanced XLR as the source. The only solution seems to be getting a amp in power amp mode, and getting a Hi-Fi 2 Channel Preamp with multiple XLR outputs so that you can output to different headphones amps. Or you have to manually unplug the XLR cable every single time when swapping amps. Or get multiple DACs


----------



## sc2806

krude said:


> By far the best voltage imo is nominal 24v. Out of curiousity what do you mean by technicalities / detail being lost using Oor? Which armps are you comparing with?


agree, and the dealer should have let you listen to the OOR on 24V first.


----------



## Vanheim (May 11, 2022)

I’m looking to buy a DAC around $1200-$1500-ish to pair with my Ferrum Oor and Hypsos stack. Currently using a smsl su9n with Kimber Kable hero xlr interconnects and AudioQuest Carbon usb cable and am very happy with it. Want something relatively similar sounding maybe a bit more body in the mids, with bigger soundstage and better detail retrieval. Willing to buy used. 

Weight and size of the unit is a big factor for me as I will be moving to a different country to study in September. 

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!!


----------



## rsbrsvp

I have read several comparisons of the oor/hypsos to the 23R.  Almost everyone gives the edge to the 23R.

I'm curious if anyone who has heard both feels differently and how you would describe the differences in terms of sonic signature.


----------



## FooFighter

rsbrsvp said:


> I have read several comparisons of the oor/hypsos to the 23R.  Almost everyone gives the edge to the 23R.
> 
> I'm curious if anyone who has heard both feels differently and how you would describe the differences in terms of sonic signature.


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tot...ing-3-wavelight-ferrum-oor-enleum-23r.961835/


----------



## carboncopy

rsbrsvp said:


> I have read several comparisons of the oor/hypsos to the 23R.  Almost everyone gives the edge to the 23R.
> 
> I'm curious if anyone who has heard both feels differently and how you would describe the differences in terms of sonic signature.


Funny...I read more feedbacks here that the Oor is better. I have the Enleum and it is a very relaxed, round signature...almost too much


----------



## rsbrsvp

I think- from what I have read- the oor/hypsos would be a better option for adding a tube- pre- because it is leaner, less round, less colored; and the tubes could do the coloring if one wanted such an option.  If one did not want the option, he could just shut off the tube pre- and that way have both flavors without being tied into the 23rs' more relaxed fuller bodied signature.


----------



## krude

Vanheim said:


> I’m looking to buy a DAC around $1200-$1500-ish to pair with my Ferrum Oor and Hypsos stack. Currently using a smsl su9n with Kimber Kable hero xlr interconnects and AudioQuest Carbon usb cable and am very happy with it. Want something relatively similar sounding maybe a bit more body in the mids, with bigger soundstage and better detail retrieval. Willing to buy used.
> 
> Weight and size of the unit is a big factor for me as I will be moving to a different country to study in September.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions!!


Chord Holo Denafrips imo.


----------



## SlothRock

krude said:


> Chord Holo Denafrips imo.


Holo has a $1500 DAC?


----------



## krude

SlothRock said:


> Holo has a $1500 DAC?


I was thinking 2nd hand Spring2 maybe, although at that point Pontus2 would make more sense probably.


----------



## Dr_Hibbert

Vanheim said:


> I’m looking to buy a DAC around $1200-$1500-ish to pair with my Ferrum Oor and Hypsos stack. Currently using a smsl su9n with Kimber Kable hero xlr interconnects and AudioQuest Carbon usb cable and am very happy with it. Want something relatively similar sounding maybe a bit more body in the mids, with bigger soundstage and better detail retrieval. Willing to buy used.
> 
> Weight and size of the unit is a big factor for me as I will be moving to a different country to study in September.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions!!


im using a chord qutest and the pairing is excellent imo.  single ended only, however, if that matters to you.


----------



## FooFighter

Which headphones are driven?
Guess this will have a significant impact on which pairing is better


----------



## chesebert

Vanheim said:


> I’m looking to buy a DAC around $1200-$1500-ish to pair with my Ferrum Oor and Hypsos stack. Currently using a smsl su9n with Kimber Kable hero xlr interconnects and AudioQuest Carbon usb cable and am very happy with it. Want something relatively similar sounding maybe a bit more body in the mids, with bigger soundstage and better detail retrieval. Willing to buy used.
> 
> Weight and size of the unit is a big factor for me as I will be moving to a different country to study in September.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions!!


Buy a dac you can demo at a dealer or at home. Buying blind based on “review”, popularity and “lemming sentiment” is a recipe for disaster.


----------



## SlothRock

chesebert said:


> Buy a dac you can demo at a dealer or at home. Buying blind based on “review”, popularity and “lemming sentiment” is a recipe for disaster.


While I can appreciate this sentiment, it's near impossible to demo some of the top end audio gear at a store. I live near San Francisco and you'd think there would be fantastic high end audio stores for this but there is maybe one total in all of the area and they're known for being scumbags who try to charge you $$ if you listen for more than 30 minutes and have plenty of awful reviews about how they treat you if you're not there to just buy buy buy. 

I'd rather do my due diligence online, read through objective (measurements) and subjective reviews and take a gamble from there than deal with all that unfortunately.


----------



## chesebert

SlothRock said:


> While I can appreciate this sentiment, it's near impossible to demo some of the top end audio gear at a store. I live near San Francisco and you'd think there would be fantastic high end audio stores for this but there is maybe one total in all of the area and they're known for being scumbags who try to charge you $$ if you listen for more than 30 minutes and have plenty of awful reviews about how they treat you if you're not there to just buy buy buy.
> 
> I'd rather do my due diligence online, read through objective (measurements) and subjective reviews and take a gamble from there than deal with all that unfortunately.


So you got no other dealer within 100 miles? I mean if $1-1.5k is pocket change than buying blind is fine and you can always resell.


----------



## krude

SlothRock said:


> While I can appreciate this sentiment, it's near impossible to demo some of the top end audio gear at a store. I live near San Francisco and you'd think there would be fantastic high end audio stores for this but there is maybe one total in all of the area and they're known for being scumbags who try to charge you $$ if you listen for more than 30 minutes and have plenty of awful reviews about how they treat you if you're not there to just buy buy buy.
> 
> I'd rather do my due diligence online, read through objective (measurements) and subjective reviews and take a gamble from there than deal with all that unfortunately.


I hear you, and even if there is a good hifi store like some in the UK (had a really good experience in Hifonix in Birmingham) its really hard to evaluate something at a store even given a few hour long slot. Plus it's hars to find places that have Holo or Denafrips DACs and even if they have one they rarely have the other.

The best way I found is to find stores that do loan units. In Poland and UK it works like "return within 2 weeks, no questions asked" kinda deal. Then you have 2 solid weeks to test a unit in your system. Like it then buy it, a few months down the line you may want to try the competitor in the same way and then you have 2 high end pieces of your choosing in your system at the same time for 2 weeks. I don't think there's another way short of just out right buying a few pieces and then selling what you don't want to keep.


----------



## AcousticMatt

Vanheim said:


> I’m looking to buy a DAC around $1200-$1500-ish to pair with my Ferrum Oor and Hypsos stack. Currently using a smsl su9n with Kimber Kable hero xlr interconnects and AudioQuest Carbon usb cable and am very happy with it. Want something relatively similar sounding maybe a bit more body in the mids, with bigger soundstage and better detail retrieval. Willing to buy used.
> 
> Weight and size of the unit is a big factor for me as I will be moving to a different country to study in September.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions!!


I am actually listening right now to the Oor (w/ Hypsos...) with my iFi Pro iDSD Signature as DAC and preamp (I'm using Tube mode right now on the iFi) and it sounds really nice. I know the iFi is out of your price range, but still wanted to give you my thoughts. Haven't heard the iFi Neo, but that's supposed to be pretty good too. I also have a Chord Qutest and love it too. It's less relaxed sounding than the iFi, but really incredible at separating layers (you could probably buy one used in your price range, or even find a deal for a new one for around $1500). If I want more excitement, I go for the Qutest and if I want more relaxed, a little more musical (even in solid state mode), I go for the iFi (although Qutest is not exactly un-musical, just so good at layers and the bass is so tight that it's not my first descriptor). My headphones are Susvara and LCD2 and I'm using RCA cables for both the Qutest and the iFi to connect to the Oor. Hope this helps! Happy looking...


----------



## SlothRock

chesebert said:


> So you got no other dealer within 100 miles? I mean if $1-1.5k is pocket change than buying blind is fine and you can always resell.



I hear ya which is why I typically buy a lot of my stuff used on here or other forums so I can blind buy and not waste a whole lot if it’s not my cup of tea. Even if I had a store within 100 miles of me it’d be hard to find stuff like Holo products or even the Ferrum OOR in this very thread to test unfortunately


----------



## paradoxper

chesebert said:


> You should buy the amp and power supply at the same time. Wall wart will severely impact amp's performance. Getting a good amp is a must if your goal is to properly experience more headphones. There are many high quality amps that don't cost a lot. If getting good service is important just buy a used Pass Labs amp and you will be set for many many years.


 No, no. You should just tell him, buy a Kevin Gilmore amplifier.


----------



## Vanheim

I have the chance to get the qutest for $1200, but I’m slightly worried about it being too thin/bright sounding. How ever I have a feeling using AudioQuest Water RCA interconnects and coffee USB cable which I plan to upgrade to if I get the qutest will help round it out enough for me to love it.


----------



## Vanheim

I’m currently using the HD6XX, mrspeakers alpha primes, modhouse audio argon mk3 and moondrop blessing 2 as my main HPs and iems. I don’t really plan on upgrading them until I can directly gun for the Susvara. 

Or I could skip the DAC upgrade, and further cable upgrades for now and take off my Diana V2 from sale and keep it. It’s at my cousin’s for the time being from where he’ll ship it.


----------



## chesebert

paradoxper said:


> No, no. You should just tell him, buy a Kevin Gilmore amplifier.


You got me. Trying not to show my KG bias


----------



## Vanheim

Roasty said:


> was swapping around power cords and ended up really liking the AQ Tornado source with the Hypsos. preferred it over Atlas EOS 4dd, WyWires Digital Juice ii and TWL Digital and TWL 7 Plus.
> 
> saw a good deal on some iFi nova power cords and was thinking of trying those out.
> 
> anyone tried/considering changing the power link cable between hypsos and oor?


Aaaa this has peaked my interest. The AQ tornado is in my bucket list now as well.


----------



## paradoxper

chesebert said:


> You got me. Trying not to show my KG bias


The bias is transparent and of merit. 

At least the OOR is pretty good. Not like the days of the Dark Star crap, right.


----------



## chesebert

paradoxper said:


> The bias is transparent and of merit.
> 
> At least the OOR is pretty good. Not like the days of the Dark Star crap, right.


Lol...is Ray still in business? He is a nice guy but his amps...


----------



## ChJL

801evan said:


> While I haven't tried it on the OOR, IFI Elite sounds better than the Hypsos in all my use cases across 5 devices. So for the OOR u need to get a 24v version.


Interesting, since most people set the Hypsos at 24+ volts... Quite a saving!


----------



## FooFighter

On the other hand latest trend is going for 28+ Volts at least for the likes of Susvara, that's my default setting now


----------



## paradoxper

chesebert said:


> Lol...is Ray still in business? He is a nice guy but his amps...


He may build one amp a year for the ignorant newcomer.

Never fear! Without the woeful RSA, we now have the even more woed Wells Audio.


----------



## iFi audio

801evan said:


> While I haven't tried it on the OOR, IFI Elite sounds better than the Hypsos in all my use cases across 5 devices. So for the OOR u need to get a 24v version.



That's good to know, thanks! If I may ask, were there any specific differences between the two that set them apart the most in your setup?


----------



## chesebert (May 11, 2022)

paradoxper said:


> He may build one amp a year for the ignorant newcomer.
> 
> Never fear! Without the woeful RSA, we now have the even more woed Wells Audio.


How about that shiny exemplary human being named Mikhail and his ultra “high end” amps 🤣

Still member the cluster f amps named after Rudi Stor?  🤣

The best compliment I can give OOR is the amp sounds good and is not a dumpster fire.


----------



## FooFighter

Anyone looking for an almost new OOR, there's one in the classifieds 
https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/price-drop-ferrum-oor-new-boxed.24619/


----------



## paradoxper

chesebert said:


> How about that shiny exemplary human being named Mikhail and his ultra “high end” amps 🤣
> 
> Still member the cluster f amps named after Rudi Stor?  🤣
> 
> The best compliment I can give OOR is the amp sounds good and is not a dumpster fire.


Those legends will live on forever. Ha!


----------



## chesebert

paradoxper said:


> Those legends will live on forever. Ha!


god bless their souls.


----------



## paradoxper

chesebert said:


> god bless their souls.


God rest their owners. 🤣


----------



## chesebert

paradoxper said:


> God rest their owners. 🤣


🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️


----------



## Roasty

Vanheim said:


> Aaaa this has peaked my interest. The AQ tornado is in my bucket list now as well.



I like the AQ Tornado. doesn't seem to do much wrong except maybe loses a bit of transparency and slight looseness in the low end. I've tried it with all my amps, and prefer it connected to amps than to my dacs or usb reclocker/ddcs.



Gavin C4 said:


> I really wanted to help but I do not have the same level of RCA and XLR cable. Only got some standard studio RCA cables and Crystal Cable XLR cables. Hopefully someone else can have a fair comparison?
> 
> I can see where you are from, as most DACs often only offer 1 pair of XLR and RCA output. For those who have multiple amps, you only have 1 pair of balanced XLR as the source. The only solution seems to be getting a amp in power amp mode, and getting a Hi-Fi 2 Channel Preamp with multiple XLR outputs so that you can output to different headphones amps. Or you have to manually unplug the XLR cable every single time when swapping amps. Or get multiple DACs



yeah that's my exact problem. having a dac with one xlr and one rca out, rather than two xlr outs (only dac I've tried that has two xlr outputs is the okto dac8). my pre also only has one of each, so either ferrum bypass mode or power amp can get the xlr connection. 

right now, I've opted for dac xlr into the ferrum (non bypass) and dac rca into the Primaluna pre. the xlr input into the ferrum does give a boost of power and less turns on the volume knob over rca input.


----------



## rsbrsvp

I just want to a local dealer the hear the oor/hypsos.

It sounded VERY different than my audio-gd HE-9.  My HE-9 has a much more hefty presentation and noticeably more neutral.  The oor had a absolutely beautiful analogue sweetness, slight roundness to the sound, with less heft, yet highly detailed.  Don't get me wrong- it was not thin sounding; it was in fact very CORRECT sounding.  Very very transparent amp.

This really has me thinking after all these years with the HE-9.  The  HE-9 presentation is much more "sterile" so to speak.  The OOR is slightly and  tastefully honey glazed. 

As much as I love bass- I was so taken by the oor- which had tight punchy super high quality bass (but not a lot), it seemed to me to be more convincing; more correct, more real, less digital- by a good amount.  More is not always better.  This oor is so so well balanced.  It sounds like a musical instrument.  I agree- it has a soul...

The coloration on this amp. is done so so tastefully, and in such delicate fashion.  Absolutely beautiful sounding..........

I am going to hear a 23R in the next few days hopefully.  It will be interesting...

My HE-9 is gone..- period...


----------



## SlothRock

rsbrsvp said:


> I just want to a local dealer the hear the oor/hypsos.
> 
> It sounded VERY different than my audio-gd HE-9.  My HE-9 has a much more hefty presentation and noticeably more neutral.  The oor had a absolutely beautiful analogue sweetness, slight roundness to the sound, with less heft, yet highly detailed.  Don't get me wrong- it was not thin sounding; it was in fact very CORRECT sounding.  Very very transparent amp.
> 
> ...



This analysis tracks really well with Ferrum's measurements too - GoldenSound measured the amp and it's very noise-free but not to the level of something sterile like the Topping A90. It feels like they did a fantastic job getting the thing to be ultra transparent but add a hint of coloring as to bring some positive flavor/"soul" to the amp that other "good measuring" amps seem to forget about or don't care to do.


----------



## FooFighter (May 12, 2022)

rsbrsvp said:


> I just want to a local dealer the hear the oor/hypsos.
> 
> It sounded VERY different than my audio-gd HE-9.  My HE-9 has a much more hefty presentation and noticeably more neutral.  The oor had a absolutely beautiful analogue sweetness, slight roundness to the sound, with less heft, yet highly detailed.  Don't get me wrong- it was not thin sounding; it was in fact very CORRECT sounding.  Very very transparent amp.
> 
> ...


Don't know how much you re into software solutions (I wasn't before getting Holo Audio Spring 3 and trying the recommend software upscaler HQPlayer with it).
In comparison to direct Roon it is providing  a variety of analogue sounding filters which can audibly alter the signature by a degree that is  usually reached by rolling DACs and amps.
Just also for experimenting together with your current and demo gear...
On top I am using Ovatory1990-PEQ and am very happy with the overall combination with Susvara providing that extra low end punch which can be lacking on many recordings otherwise


----------



## Vanheim

rsbrsvp said:


> I just want to a local dealer the hear the oor/hypsos.
> 
> It sounded VERY different than my audio-gd HE-9.  My HE-9 has a much more hefty presentation and noticeably more neutral.  The oor had a absolutely beautiful analogue sweetness, slight roundness to the sound, with less heft, yet highly detailed.  Don't get me wrong- it was not thin sounding; it was in fact very CORRECT sounding.  Very very transparent amp.
> 
> ...


Can I ask what DAC was used to test these?


----------



## rsbrsvp

I dont remember what the dealer had on hand- but it was an inexpensive r2r dac.  Nothing special...


----------



## Vanheim

Using a fairly terrible cable I had on hand  I used the single ended line out of my Fiio m17 into the ferrum stack. It sounded much better than I thought it would. Considering buying a good upgrade 4.4 pentaconn to dual 3-pin xlr cable to hear it’s true potential, does anyone have any recommendations?


----------



## 801evan

iFi audio said:


> That's good to know, thanks! If I may ask, were there any specific differences between the two that set them apart the most in your setup?


Elite is quieter, faster, more extension top and bottom, blacker and more linear. One can't ignore the haze and lack of speed on the Hypsos.


----------



## SlothRock

801evan said:


> Elite is quieter, faster, more extension top and bottom, blacker and more linear. One can't ignore the haze and lack of speed on the Hypsos.



Would there be much of a difference between the elite and just the standard plug that comes with the OOR in this case? I know a linear power supply like the Hypsos adds some noise but is supposed to make up for it with how it adds to the quality of the sound but if the ifi elite brick sounds better to you, how does it simply compare to the standard plug?


----------



## 801evan

SlothRock said:


> Would there be much of a difference between the elite and just the standard plug that comes with the OOR in this case? I know a linear power supply like the Hypsos adds some noise but is supposed to make up for it with how it adds to the quality of the sound but if the ifi elite brick sounds better to you, how does it simply compare to the standard plug?


What I said is based on the 2.1mm barrel plug with the hypsos. I've even used silver occ upgrade cables and while there is less haze, the extension and blacks and speed didn't improve.


----------



## SlothRock

801evan said:


> What I said is based on the 2.1mm barrel plug with the hypsos. I've even used silver occ upgrade cables and while there is less haze, the extension and blacks and speed didn't improve.



Nice that is great to know - would love to look more into this. If we're talking a better sound with iFi than the HYPSOS thats a huge $$ savings


----------



## IanB52

801evan said:


> What I said is based on the 2.1mm barrel plug with the hypsos. I've even used silver occ upgrade cables and while there is less haze, the extension and blacks and speed didn't improve.


I haven't done the same comparison with the iFi, so you may be right. But in my own system Hypsos+Oor have extremely low noise and are about as fast as anything I've heard. No haze at all. The only amps I have heard with a deeper black background also rolled off treble.

Granted, I have a very low noise system and  am using really fancy power cables and an aftermarket Synergistic Research fuse with the Hypsos. Have you compared with using the 4 pin cable on the Hypsos?


----------



## rsbrsvp

A few more insights on oor/hypsos from my short demonstration:

This amp. does not extend the frequencies like many super amps. do.  However- to my ears, those ss amps that do so have a slightly hollow midrange.  This amp. is so so even keeled and delivers each frequency range in almost perfect balance without stressing one over the other.  I love how tight and clean the bass is without exaggerating it.  I love how the treble is just so so easygoing and lacks that last drop of sharpness that many other amplifiers have- but is more organic.  And the midrange is king here-- not hallow at all; just right...     How about soundstage?  I have heard bigger.  But bigger soundstage on ss designs almost always hollows the midrange a bit IMHO.  The soundstage here is not huge, it is seemingly correct, more intimate, more believable. Again, it technically does not beat everything out there- but it is incredibly technically competent while being so so organic and so pleasant- it is addictive.

One more point.  There is an aspect of this ss amp which is generally associated with tubes and which I feel it excels in as good as the best tubes I have heard. Tubes add warmth, euphony, soundstage, fullness, etc.   I would say the slight warmth and the incredibly delicately colored sweetness are as good as any tubes.  Heft, and layering aspects are not there as they are with good tubes- but sweetness-- maybe even better.

This product is technically very competent (but not the best for sure).  It's focus is about the beauty of music.  I like it...


----------



## lllkkkoo

Hi, just joined here and recently bought the ferrum stack.. was wondering if anyone has experience with r2r and ferrum pairing? wonder if it would be too polite..


----------



## 801evan

rsbrsvp said:


> A few more insights on oor/hypsos from my short demonstration:
> 
> This amp. does not extend the frequencies like many super amps. do.  However- to my ears, those ss amps that do so have a slightly hollow midrange.  This amp. is so so even keeled and delivers each frequency range in almost perfect balance without stressing one over the other.  I love how tight and clean the bass is without exaggerating it.  I love how the treble is just so so easygoing and lacks that last drop of sharpness that many other amplifiers have- but is more organic.  And the midrange is king here-- not hallow at all; just right...     How about soundstage?  I have heard bigger.  But bigger soundstage on ss designs almost always hollows the midrange a bit IMHO.  The soundstage here is not huge, it is seemingly correct, more intimate, more believable. Again, it technically does not beat everything out there- but it is incredibly technically competent while being so so organic and so pleasant- it is addictive.
> 
> ...


This is accurate. Devices with smaller soundstage, lack of extension will sound safer or appear to have more balance. Everytime I upgrade to a device with more soundstage and extension, it comes with imbalance issues but I always try to work through that as that's exactly the challenge in moving forward.


----------



## krude

801evan said:


> This is accurate. Devices with smaller soundstage, lack of extension will sound safer or appear to have more balance. Everytime I upgrade to a device with more soundstage and extension, it comes with imbalance issues but I always try to work through that as that's exactly the challenge in moving forward.


From my experience this is a realm psychoacoustics. Certain FRs will boost the percieved width and height of the stage but the trade off is tonality. Also my stack burned in and stage expanded a but over time.


----------



## 801evan

krude said:


> From my experience this is a realm psychoacoustics. Certain FRs will boost the percieved width and height of the stage but the trade off is tonality. Also my stack burned in and stage expanded a but over time.


Yea but we were both talking about extension. Different from psychoacoustics.


----------



## rsbrsvp (May 13, 2022)

krude said:


> From my experience this is a realm psychoacoustics. Certain FRs will boost the percieved width and height of the stage but the trade off is tonality. Also my stack burned in and stage expanded a but over time.


I hope to hear the amp-23R this Sunday.  In the meantime, the oor/hypsos is the "tonality king".  Not the detail, or bass ,or soundstage king- for sure, but the "tonality king" it is for a ss amp.

I have owned systems where the detail, and perhaps even the extension is so so good- that I often comment to friends that it sounds (technically) better than live music.  I am convinced this is true.  Proper digital playback with OXCO clocks and network switches and super dynamic amps are extracting way more detail than live music IMHO. Does it sound good?  Indeed it does.  This oor/Hypsos combination, however diminished in these technical abilities relative to the very best (and only the very best competition), sounds much more real;  much more tonally analogue; much closer to the way live music really sounds IMHO....   It is very linear and very transparent- just without mega extension on both ends and with a complete lack of ANY sharpness nor a hint of sterility,; rather injecting the most delicate, subtle, and sweet roundness in the tonality.  My ears and brain tell me that live music is not nearly as sharp and crisp as these TOTL amps deliver.  The oor/hypsos sounds so much more correct.

 I need more time to figure this out...  I'm going back to the dealer to hear the oor again.


----------



## Dr_Hibbert

amps that produce a wide soundstage (e.g. soloist GT) often sacrifice depth, imaging and/or tonality.  always tradeoffs.  to me, ferrum strikes the best balance of all the amps i've tried.  non-fatiguing, pinpoint imaging, and a very deep soundstage with reasonable width.  it did require some tweaking to sound its best, however.


----------



## Arniesb

Dr_Hibbert said:


> amps that produce a wide soundstage (e.g. soloist GT) often sacrifice depth, imaging and/or tonality.  always tradeoffs.  to me, ferrum strikes the best balance of all the amps i've tried.  non-fatiguing, pinpoint imaging, and a very deep soundstage with reasonable width.  it did require some tweaking to sound its best, however.


Anything with a lot of distortions sounds wider, because stuff that needs to pop in dynamic music is burried under tons of distortion.
This is not magic of class a or tube magic... Just pleasant distortion effect.
Dirty window effect...


----------



## SlothRock

Yes but dirty windows aren't pleasant.....distortion can be tho


----------



## ChJL

Which DAC would you advise I should get for the Ferrum stack? Spring 3 KTE Vs Gustard X26 pro? Electronic music listener so I don't care to much about vocals or if a violine, guitar, piano... sounds like in a "natural setting". Macro/micro detail, depth, engaging impactful representation, bass quality of course are all important.
Coming from a Questyle twelve with Clear OG.
Thanks!


----------



## chargedcapacitor

ChJL said:


> Which DAC would you advise I should get for the Ferrum stack? Spring 3 KTE Vs Gustard X26 pro? Electronic music listener so I don't care to much about vocals or if a violine, guitar, piano... sounds like in a "natural setting". Macro/micro detail, depth, engaging impactful representation, bass quality of course are all important.
> Coming from a Questyle twelve with Clear OG.
> Thanks!


A lot of electronic music is extremely simple tones and beats, so even poor equipment can replicate the sound with relative ease. That being said, you should test out different DACs with your music to see if you can even hear a difference. Maybe focus more on the transducer first, and DAC later down the road.


----------



## krude

ChJL said:


> Which DAC would you advise I should get for the Ferrum stack? Spring 3 KTE Vs Gustard X26 pro? Electronic music listener so I don't care to much about vocals or if a violine, guitar, piano... sounds like in a "natural setting". Macro/micro detail, depth, engaging impactful representation, bass quality of course are all important.
> Coming from a Questyle twelve with Clear OG.
> Thanks!


I listen to a lot of electronica and went with May L2 and it's great. Deep bass without that digital grain found in many delta sigma dacs.

Btw electronica can be really complex and textured.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

krude said:


> Btw electronica can be really complex and textured.


True, it depends on what kind he listens to. For example, Deadmau5 will be mostly electronically created tones with few non-electronic samples. Such music will have little sonic presence at or above 10khz. On the other hand, artist such as Daft Punk will have very complex electronic music.

Either way, one should always try before they buy.


----------



## ChJL

krude said:


> I listen to a lot of electronica and went with May L2 and it's great. Deep bass without that digital grain found in many delta sigma dacs.
> 
> Btw electronica can be really complex and textured.


Yeah, what a broad term right. But try to explain techno etc. to an audiophile. Kind of a problem when reading on forums, magazines and YT videos. I kinda feel the same way when reviewers explain how gear sounds with chosen music. "You actually listen to this"... What a funny hobby, the same gear could satisfy two totally different folks alike.


----------



## krude

ChJL said:


> Yeah, what a broad term right. But try to explain techno etc. to an audiophile. Kind of a problem when reading on forums, magazines and YT videos. I kinda feel the same way when reviewers explain how gear sounds with chosen music. "You actually listen to this"... What a funny hobby, the same gear could satisfy two totally different folks alike.


Indeed, there's a lot of subgenres, from Skalpel through Neelix, Astrix to Black Sun Empire, Blu Mar Ten to Massive Attack, Portishead and Amon Tobin. I went through pretty much everything and there are some amazing geniouses in every genre. In recent years I've grown to love Phaeleh and chillout in general for example. Anyway, for electronica you want smooth presentation and good soundstage and imaging. Holo stuff is great all around. Also heard good things about Rockna bjt haven't heard their stuff personally.


----------



## 801evan

Arniesb said:


> Anything with a lot of distortions sounds wider, because stuff that needs to pop in dynamic music is burried under tons of distortion.
> This is not magic of class a or tube magic... Just pleasant distortion effect.
> Dirty window effect...


That is correct in some way. Distortion can bring in fake soundstage width, which some headphones capitalizes on. Telling fake soundstage width from proper soundstage extension is hard to tell if one hasn't heard the latter. What's very consistent though is the more proper my upgrade path is, the less depth (z-axis) there is in the presentation.


----------



## Tom75

Just ordered the musician pegasus for the Oor/hypsos.
Still have the Erco here, so I'll do a comparison on my own


----------



## 801evan

Tom75 said:


> Just ordered the musician pegasus for the Oor/hypsos.
> Still have the Erco here, so I'll do a comparison on my own


It will not pair well since Pegasus has a high output impedance.


----------



## miuywu (May 15, 2022)

Been a/b testing the Ferrum oor + hypsos against the Xi audio Broadway balanced. Choosing between them is going to be my first super hard decision in this hobby.

My main setup is rme adi 2 akm + external Amp and abyss diana Tc. I do want to upgrade my dac but haven't found a suitable replacement yet.

In short,  the Ferrum oor + hypsos and Broadway both sound engaging and detailed and are worthy of being end game experiences (that or I've sated my spending lust atm). While same in being super great, both have some wins over the other.

The Ferrum oor + hypsos stands out in its elegance, sounding overall refined. I would guess that most audiophiles would choose it over the Broadway.
Bass - deep extension & full sounding and some physical "mmph", round shape​Mids - not overstated but tear jerking "real" vocals. Voices are defined well and I was able to hear the "air" in the singing. First time listening to music made me imagine the unknown face of the singer, or the existence of a piano in front of me.​Highs - detailed and controlled. Only the worst recorded tracks I had could sound sharp(literally clipping instruments). Everything else was refined and controlled.​​The Broadway in comparison stands out in its blast energy and vocal forwardness. The intimate mids and impact energy are making it so hard to leave this guy.
Bass - so much energy and great texture some heavy tracks gave the feeling of pressure on the ears. Extension actually wasn't naturally as big as oor but slight eq to lift the sub bass made every aspect of Broadway bass significantly superior to oor.​Mids - intimate in-my-head vocals. The oor is like a beautiful singer on stage(not that far but still some distance). The Broadway is like a personal seranade right in front of me.​Highs -  detailed and refined.​
The oor is more natural, beautiful in its nuance and controlled sound gives a feeling of elegance.
The Broadway is somewhat surreal. Some sound effects and percussions don't sound like a recording, they sound like they're in the room with you. But that somewhat recesses the non-impact bass (which is why it doesn't seem to extend as far as oor) and also pushes back everything surrounding the vocals. If you listen to a busy track / mix,  the vocals are very clearly cut out and presented in front of you.

Also been struggling to hear the difference that the 22-30 volts and respective wattage changes in the oor but haven't tried the non variable power supply yet.


----------



## 801evan

miuywu said:


> Been a/b testing the Ferrum oor + hypsos against the Xi audio Broadway balanced. Choosing between them is going to be my first super hard decision in this hobby.
> 
> My main setup is rme adi 2 akm + external Amp and abyss diana Tc. I do want to upgrade my dac but haven't found a suitable replacement yet.
> 
> ...


OOR clearly the superior one here.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

miuywu said:


> Been a/b testing the Ferrum oor + hypsos against the Xi audio Broadway balanced. Choosing between them is going to be my first super hard decision in this hobby.
> 
> My main setup is rme adi 2 akm + external Amp and abyss diana Tc. I do want to upgrade my dac but haven't found a suitable replacement yet.
> 
> ...


How did you set up the volume on the OOR? Did you set it in bypass and use the RME as a pre? Did you try turning the OOR on high gain with the volume all the way up?


----------



## miuywu

chargedcapacitor said:


> How did you set up the volume on the OOR? Did you set it in bypass and use the RME as a pre? Did you try turning the OOR on high gain with the volume all the way up?


Currently oor on bypass 27.9 volts with rme using -5db line out and pre sliding between -22 and -7 depending on the song. Mainly did it for ab easy volume matching and never found non pre out on rme anyway. Would use pot on oor for convenience in the future.


----------



## Tom75

801evan said:


> It will not pair well since Pegasus has a high output impedance.


Surprised to hear that. Only based on the reviews,  I expected that the Pegasus matches well.


----------



## 801evan

Tom75 said:


> Surprised to hear that. Only based on the reviews,  I expected that the Pegasus matches well.


Impedance mismatch factor.


----------



## SlothRock

Looking up the Pegasus, I'm seeing the output impedance is only 3.5V RMS for balanced. Is that what you're all talking about? Doesn't seem too high to me.


----------



## rsbrsvp

I just went to a local dealer to hear the amp-23R.

He had a Violectric HPA V226 dac- which I think is not the best but O.K.

I was shocked.  IMHO it sounded terrible, absolutely terrible.  Fuzzy, bloated, just horrible..

I would not pay $100 for it.   Just not my kind of sound.......

I don't get why people like this?
​


----------



## 801evan

rsbrsvp said:


> Fuzzy, bloated,


Yep. I don't get it.


----------



## carboncopy

rsbrsvp said:


> I just went to a local dealer to hear the amp-23R.
> 
> He had a Violectric HPA V226 dac- which I think is not the best but O.K.
> 
> ...


Why are you asking this in the Ferrum thread?


----------



## rsbrsvp

Because I mentioned in an earlier post a few days ago that I demoed a oor/hypsos and that I was going to compare it to a 23R today.  So I was just reporting my findings...


----------



## chargedcapacitor

miuywu said:


> Currently oor on bypass 27.9 volts with rme using -5db line out and pre sliding between -22 and -7 depending on the song. Mainly did it for ab easy volume matching and never found non pre out on rme anyway. Would use pot on oor for convenience in the future.


If you can test it out again, try setting it to high gain with the pot turned all the way up. The bypass mode is actually only medium gain, so t you don't get the full power of the OOR in that mode.


----------



## carboncopy

rsbrsvp said:


> Because I mentioned in an earlier post a few days ago that I demoed a oor/hypsos and that I was going to compare it to a 23R today.  So I was just reporting my findings...


I see...to be honest I was (maybe still?) also confused with the Enleum 23R. It get's such an universal wide spread acclaim from every review...I also felt (feel) that is somehow underwhelming. It is too soft, too roled off. But it is not a dead sound and it is also not boring. Intresting combination. I use it with a fairly open soundig preamp and now I really like the end result. Money/performance ratio is questionable for sure. But it can also drive speakers too and it is dead silent with every headphone I tried. Sooo...yeah. It's a mixeb bag.


----------



## ChJL

801evan said:


> Impedance mismatch factor.


Interesting, just watched a video from the Abyss guys on a related topic! So how to match impedances of DACs and AMPs? What's a preferable range/at what ration it's too far apart? Thanks!


----------



## miuywu

chargedcapacitor said:


> If you can test it out again, try setting it to high gain with the pot turned all the way up. The bypass mode is actually only medium gain, so t you don't get the full power of the OOR in that mode.


Still can't firmly say it's not placebo for me but lower voltage feels like it stretches the transients and high voltage shortens them. If it does its very minimal. I'm not hearing timbre nor tonality changes.


----------



## FooFighter (May 15, 2022)

miuywu said:


> Still can't firmly say it's not placebo for me but lower voltage feels like it stretches the transients and high voltage shortens them. If it does its very minimal. I'm not hearing timbre nor tonality changes.


I feel the same and I am actively using that effect to cope with the track mix I am listening to.
Too bright, reveiling: lower gain (mid gain is the lowest for my planars 😉), high gain for  "darker" recorded tracks.
The effect feels like the slow roll of vs fast filters known from DACs to my ears.
PS: I need to find that part again but it was discussed earlier in this thread: 0 gain was fed by some standard amp attenuation circuit, whereas high gain is run through an additional amplifier which is changing tonality...


----------



## ChJL

About the output Impedance of the Oor it states:

Output impedance On the headphone output the impedance at 1kHz is <0.4 Ohm regardless of the load. On the preamp output: RCA 22 Ohm, XLR 44 Ohm.

So how to pair a headphone ragearding it's impedance? Thanks again...


----------



## FooFighter

Here we go with the technical details of the different gain stages and why they sound different
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ferrum-oor-headphone-amplifier-with-a-soul.958541/post-16920525

"When in low gain or high gain modes the OOR uses an additional pre-stage whereas medium gain does not. (If you have hypsos you can actually see that idle power usage is a watt or so higher for Low/High gain than medium gain)"


----------



## FooFighter (May 15, 2022)

ChJL said:


> About the output Impedance of the Oor it states:
> 
> Output impedance On the headphone output the impedance at 1kHz is <0.4 Ohm regardless of the load. On the preamp output: RCA 22 Ohm, XLR 44 Ohm.
> 
> So how to pair a headphone ragearding it's impedance? Thanks again...


So I am not an electrical engineer. Here's an explanation article about the impedance relation factors
https://www.headphonesty.com/2019/04/headphone-impedance-demystified/
"The term ‘rule of eighths’ is used as a rough guide. Divide the headphone impedance by 8, and that is the maximum source output impedance (32 ohm headphones / 8 = 4 ohm maximum source output impedance). In practice, it isn’t that strict a rule and often success can be had with a greater range."

I myself have only collected significant experience for impedance matching high sensitive IEMs like Andromeda which had a significant different transient response especially bass with headphone out impedance below or  greater than 1 Ohms.
On my former MEST MKII it was vice versa.
The good thing about OOR is that it can run IEMs and also planars up to Susvara!

I remember there was also a rule for the  relation between preamp/DAC output and amp input, need to find it again.
Here we go, e.g
https://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=15150.0

"Output impedance of a preamp is something most people don't think about, but can be influential to the sound. Lefty's rule of thumb of having the preamp output impedance at least 1/10th of the power amp input impedance is sound advice. At this ratio, there will be only 0.83dB of loss in the interconnect."


----------



## krude

miuywu said:


> Still can't firmly say it's not placebo for me but lower voltage feels like it stretches the transients and high voltage shortens them. If it does its very minimal. I'm not hearing timbre nor tonality changes.


I had the same impressions regarding transients. Again I don't know if it actually is like that.


----------



## miuywu

krude said:


> I had the same impressions regarding transients. Again I don't know if it actually is like that.


How does the holo may + oor sound? If it's natural enough I might actually jump ship from my electronic /fun focused setup


----------



## krude

miuywu said:


> How does the holo may + oor sound? If it's natural enough I might actually jump ship from my electronic /fun focused setup


In a word, great. Chord TT2 / Dave level of performance (stage, detail, imaging) with high class r2r smoothness and refinement.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

miuywu said:


> Still can't firmly say it's not placebo for me but lower voltage feels like it stretches the transients and high voltage shortens them. If it does its very minimal. I'm not hearing timbre nor tonality changes.


I'm not referring to voltage on the Hypsos, I'm referring to the OOR gain. Just clarifying.


----------



## EMINENT

chargedcapacitor said:


> If you can test it out again, try setting it to high gain with the pot turned all the way up. The bypass mode is actually only medium gain, so t you don't get the full power of the OOR in that mode.



Is this how you always listen or just a test?


----------



## chargedcapacitor

EMINENT said:


> Is this how you always listen or just a test?


I daily drive it this way (for the LCD-5 and Susvara) with my RME Adi acting as the pre-amp.


----------



## EMINENT

chargedcapacitor said:


> I daily drive it this way (for the LCD-5 and Susvara) with my RME Adi acting as the pre-amp.


Hmm... others have stated that is working the amp too hard and then others say that the digital volume not at max is not giving enough signal.

Such a silly world this is.


----------



## krude (May 16, 2022)

EMINENT said:


> Hmm... others have stated that is working the amp too hard and then others say that the digital volume not at max is not giving enough signal.
> 
> Such a silly world this is.


Chain and preferences matter a lot. By adding gain you're adding distortion (which is not a bad thing if it sounds good to you). It's a misconception that it has anything to do with power, but it cetrtainly amplifies the signal more. Understanding audio reproduction is really hard and it's a mystery in many ways even to people with years of electronics design and production experience.

That's why there's so mamy opinions, often contradictory.


----------



## 801evan

Higher gain is always higher distortion...yet many ppl say it gives more power to the HP and more dynamics to sound... 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️


----------



## krude (May 16, 2022)

801evan said:


> Higher gain is always higher distortion...yet many ppl say it gives more power to the HP and more dynamics to sound... 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️


Probably bc it makes the transients more edgy / pronounced. I can understand why this can be pleasing. Adding a slight touch of distortion to an otherwise very clean system can add this touch of more aggressive character. There is always a trade off, in this case quite a few, but if it sounds good to your ears then that's all that matters.


----------



## 801evan (May 16, 2022)

krude said:


> Probably bc it makes the transients more edgy / pronounced. I can understand why this can be pleasing. Adding a slight touch of distortion to an otherwise very clean system can add this touch of more aggressive character.


Yep. That's why there's a lot of misleading impressions out there ... Like an ahb2 on med or high gain for the susvara that only needs 142mw of power. Or high gain on the susvara on the OOR.


----------



## FooFighter (May 16, 2022)

krude said:


> Probably bc it makes the transients more edgy / pronounced. I can understand why this can be pleasing. Adding a slight touch of distortion to an otherwise very clean system can add this touch of more aggressive character.


This is also how I am hearing it:
0 gain is smooth and thick
High gain is brighter, a tad more aggressive
Both can be switched depending on the mix and own preferences and we shouldn't forget that there's an additional amping circuit involved for anything unequal 0 gain so that means a different signature by design


----------



## chargedcapacitor

krude said:


> Chain and preferences matter a lot. By adding gain you're adding distortion (which is not a bad thing if it sounds good to you). It's a misconception that it has anything to do with power, but it cetrtainly amplifies the signal more. Understanding audio reproduction is really hard and it's a mystery in many ways even to people with years of electronics design and production experience.
> 
> That's why there's so mamy opinions, often contradictory.


Audeze's statement about "power":
https://www.audeze.com/blogs/technology-and-innovation/sensitivity-impedance-and-amplifier-power

Also, the distortion at even the highest gain on the OOR is measurably inaudible. So if there is a difference in sound, I wouldn't think distortion would be the cause.


----------



## 801evan

chargedcapacitor said:


> Audeze's statement about "power":
> https://www.audeze.com/blogs/technology-and-innovation/sensitivity-impedance-and-amplifier-power
> 
> Also, the distortion at even the highest gain on the OOR is measurably inaudible. So if there is a difference in sound, I wouldn't think distortion would be the cause.


Except that the sonic difference of high gain vs lower gain on any amp that is of the same volume is exactly distortion.


----------



## FooFighter

801evan said:


> Except that the sonic difference of high gain vs lower gain on any amp that is of the same volume is exactly distortion.


In this case I remind again of the different additional circuit in OOR for high gain which in theory can sound different than without  - don't know the design of other amps


----------



## chesebert

801evan said:


> Except that the sonic difference of high gain vs lower gain on any amp that is of the same volume is exactly distortion.


Actually it could also relate to the amount of global feedback on some amps and lower global feedback (high gain) tends to sound better.


----------



## 801evan

FooFighter said:


> In this case I remind again of the different additional circuit in OOR for high gain which in theory can sound different than without  - don't know the design of other amps


Ppl argue about sonic differences in cables, filters and hypsos voltage output where then can't hear the difference...the added circuit design in high and low gain should be much more neglible if there is a difference. Try hearing the lower noise when turning off sensing on the Hypsos. That should have a higher effect. Generally as well, lower gain, despite having added circuitry in the path still sounds better than unity gain.


----------



## Dr_Hibbert

801evan said:


> Ppl argue about sonic differences in cables, filters and hypsos voltage output where then can't hear the difference...the added circuit design in high and low gain should be much more neglible if there is a difference. Try hearing the lower noise when turning off sensing on the Hypsos. That should have a higher effect. Generally as well, lower gain, despite having added circuitry in the path still sounds better than unity gain.


what does the sensing feature do?  do you also disable spread spectrum?  what voltage are you using?


----------



## IanB52

801evan said:


> Ppl argue about sonic differences in cables, filters and hypsos voltage output where then can't hear the difference...the added circuit design in high and low gain should be much more neglible if there is a difference. Try hearing the lower noise when turning off sensing on the Hypsos. That should have a higher effect. Generally as well, lower gain, despite having added circuitry in the path still sounds better than unity gain.


FWIW I hear a more relaxed and fuzzy sound with better bass when sensing is off, but if anything there is a tiny bit lower noise and more clarity with it on.


----------



## IanB52

I really wouldn't worry about the High Gain mode much. I use it about half the time when I need more slam at lower volume. Besides more slam/punch, the main difference is a slightly more forward midrange, and a little less dynamic sound. I would hardly regard that as a meaningful loss of audio quality, it is just different. Sometimes it works better, and sometimes Medium is easier on my ears.


----------



## 801evan

FooFighter said:


> In this case I remind again of the different additional circuit in OOR for high gain which in theory can sound different than without





IanB52 said:


> Besides more slam/punch, the main difference is a slightly more forward midrange, and a little less dynamic sound. I would hardly regard that as a meaningful loss of audio quality, it is just different. Sometimes it works better, and sometimes Medium is easier on my ears.



Forward midrange, less dynamic sound and more slam is exactly the distortion that high gain gives and has nothing to do with the added circuitry.but any added circuitry will lead to small signal loss.



IanB52 said:


> FWIW I hear a more relaxed and fuzzy sound with better bass when sensing is off, but if anything there is a tiny bit lower noise and more clarity with it on.



The clarity with it on is noise/distortion. 

The fuzziness you hear with sensing off is more due to you are starting to hear the distortion of the chain upstream..and also the lack of performance of the hypsos. As evident as you are hearing more bass extension and a smoother relaxed sound. Having sensing on and having it seemingly sound better is just distortion matching/synergy. Exactly why Stealth doesn't sound good on a poor chain and why Susvara seemingly needs a power amp...and why 1266 TC seemingly pairs well with that formula /xi HP amp while other HPs don't.


----------



## IanB52

801evan said:


> The clarity with it on is noise/distortion.
> 
> The fuzziness you hear with sensing off is more due to you are starting to hear the distortion of the chain upstream..and also the lack of performance of the hypsos. As evident as you are hearing more bass extension and a smoother relaxed sound. Having sensing on and having it seemingly sound better is just distortion matching/synergy. Exactly why Stealth doesn't sound good on a poor chain and why Susvara seemingly needs a power amp...and why 1266 TC seemingly pairs well with that formula /xi HP amp while other HPs don't.


Not to toot my horn here, but I actually have a really good chain with low distortion, and top notch headphones. What I hear  with the Sensing setting is not at all anything I associate with noise or distortion, but generally what happens with feedback in any circuit, as well as a decrease in power noise/increase in voltage. Namely, these are a slightly sharper and less relaxed envelope, with better edge clarity, detail, and contrast. 

I can totally see someone preferring the Sensing setting off, and I do maybe half the time. It has an effect similar (if much smaller) to lowering negative feedback in amp, or removing a power conditioner from your system. You get more musicality, and less precision. I would personally wager that anyone measuring the Hypsos+Oor would find the Sensing setting producing subtly _lower_ distortion.


----------



## 801evan

IanB52 said:


> Not to toot my horn here, but I actually have a really good chain with low distortion, and top notch headphones. What I hear  with the Sensing setting is not at all anything I associate with noise or distortion, but generally what happens with feedback in any circuit, as well as a decrease in power noise/increase in voltage. Namely, these are a slightly sharper and less relaxed envelope, with better edge clarity, detail, and contrast.
> 
> I can totally see someone preferring the Sensing setting off, and I do maybe half the time. It has an effect similar (if much smaller) to lowering negative feedback in amp, or removing a power conditioner from your system. You get more musicality, and less precision. I would personally wager that anyone measuring the Hypsos+Oor would find the Sensing setting producing subtly _lower_ distortion.


What HP are you using in regards to this post?


----------



## IanB52

801evan said:


> What HP are you using in regards to this post?


Right now I've got the Susvara and Diana TC. I tend to prefer the DTC, however, and I've thinking of selling the Susvara and getting a 1266.


----------



## krude

IanB52 said:


> Right now I've got the Susvara and Diana TC. I tend to prefer the DTC, however, and I've thinking of selling the Susvara and getting a 1266.


If you've got a nice Susvara Id personally keep it and try to budget a TC. Imo Susvara and TC is one of THE end game setups becuase they are both incredible at what they do but have vastly different presentations. I wouldn't be able to say which one is better.


----------



## Roasty

IanB52 said:


> Right now I've got the Susvara and Diana TC. I tend to prefer the DTC, however, and I've thinking of selling the Susvara and getting a 1266.



May I suggest an alternative ie sell the DTC and Susvara, forget the TC, and just get a Solitaire P + ultra wide pads. heh heh heh..


----------



## 801evan

IanB52 said:


> Not to toot my horn here, but I actually have a really good chain with low distortion, and top notch headphones. What I hear  with the Sensing setting is not at all anything I associate with noise or distortion, but generally what happens with feedback in any circuit, as well as a decrease in power noise/increase in voltage. Namely, these are a slightly sharper and less relaxed envelope, with better edge clarity, detail, and contrast.
> 
> I can totally see someone preferring the Sensing setting off, and I do maybe half the time. It has an effect similar (if much smaller) to lowering negative feedback in amp, or removing a power conditioner from your system. You get more musicality, and less precision. I would personally wager that anyone measuring the Hypsos+Oor would find the Sensing setting producing subtly _lower_ distortion.


Is the response the same with susvara and Diana?


----------



## Tom75

Hi. 
Just received the Pegasus and letting it burn in. 
Voices and instruments sound impressive. Very natural and defined with Oor/Hypsos.
Still lacking some presence in the lower mids. Hope this will change...
Using the N8ii via i2s connection and Meze Elite.


----------



## Ckro

I've had the Ferrum combo for a few weeks now, not a revolutionary setup when compared to the DAC suggested here as I've paired the Ferrums with a Spring3.
Streamer is a Mercury that works really well in I2S, and the software is a traditional Roon/HQplayer combo.

I won't add much to what has already being written here but what a tremendous amount of pleasure I get ! Cans are ZMF VC and Utopia (mostly the VC actually).


----------



## atya35mm

hi all fellow ferrum stack owners, I'm currently experimenting with bypass mode. And for certain music i.e. classical music where dynamic ranges are large, I find the volumes are moderate but can be louder for certain passages. 

I'm using a MSB DAC with preamp which according to manual can output close to 12v via XLR which sounds very hot, just wondering is there risk of damaging the Ferrum Oor feeding it very high voltage input? I can't find the manual anywhere with regards to this. 

I also have the WA33 and there's a lot of caution around not feeding it more than 4v balance etc, but being a tube amplifier maybe it's different?


----------



## Gavin C4

atya35mm said:


> hi all fellow ferrum stack owners, I'm currently experimenting with bypass mode. And for certain music i.e. classical music where dynamic ranges are large, I find the volumes are moderate but can be louder for certain passages.
> 
> I'm using a MSB DAC with preamp which according to manual can output close to 12v via XLR which sounds very hot, just wondering is there risk of damaging the Ferrum Oor feeding it very high voltage input? I can't find the manual anywhere with regards to this.
> 
> I also have the WA33 and there's a lot of caution around not feeding it more than 4v balance etc, but being a tube amplifier maybe it's different?



I would suggest you to file a technical support ticket directly to Ferrum and ask them about the maximum input voltage that the OOR can accept. The Ferrum Support function on their web, linked below, is very responsive. Please share you amswer with us if you recieve reply from Ferrum.

https://ferrum.audio/support/


----------



## krude

atya35mm said:


> hi all fellow ferrum stack owners, I'm currently experimenting with bypass mode. And for certain music i.e. classical music where dynamic ranges are large, I find the volumes are moderate but can be louder for certain passages.
> 
> I'm using a MSB DAC with preamp which according to manual can output close to 12v via XLR which sounds very hot, just wondering is there risk of damaging the Ferrum Oor feeding it very high voltage input? I can't find the manual anywhere with regards to this.
> 
> I also have the WA33 and there's a lot of caution around not feeding it more than 4v balance etc, but being a tube amplifier maybe it's different?


Wow 12v is massive, 2x of what Dave puts out. It can easily run as a hp amp if it has low impedance 😱


----------



## chargedcapacitor

krude said:


> Wow 12v is massive, 2x of what Dave puts out. It can easily run as a hp amp if it has low impedance 😱


Pretty sure if you put a low impedance load on it, it would not be able to supply the full 12V lol


----------



## atya35mm (May 21, 2022)

Have lodged the question with Ferrum tech so will share response soon. Yeah not sure if I'm reading the manual right, but here it is:






https://www.msbtechnology.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/The-Reference-DAC-User-Guide-REV-2_3.pdf

In the mean time, have reverted back to normal mode and maybe high gain as I get higher volumes then bypass mode.


----------



## krude

atya35mm said:


> Have lodged the question with Ferrum tech so will share response soon. Yeah not sure if I'm reading the manual right, but here it is:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ahhh looks to me it outputs 3.5v max when running as a DAC, 12v is probably the headroom for analog "bypass".


----------



## atya35mm

krude said:


> Ahhh looks to me it outputs 3.5v max when running as a DAC, 12v is probably the headroom for analog "bypass".


Thanks!! I'm not great with reading specs!


----------



## chesebert

atya35mm said:


> Have lodged the question with Ferrum tech so will share response soon. Yeah not sure if I'm reading the manual right, but here it is:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


probably a typo. you would clip you preamp with that kind of output


----------



## atya35mm

I'm not hearing much benefit with bypass mode for Ferrum Oor, so normal mode for me


----------



## chargedcapacitor

atya35mm said:


> I'm not hearing much benefit with bypass mode for Ferrum Oor, so normal mode for me


Same, plus normal mode lets me switch between the Susvara and other headphones without changing pre-amp settings easier.


----------



## krude

That's a testament to how good the volume on Oor is.


----------



## ChJL

Ckro said:


> I've had the Ferrum combo for a few weeks now, not a revolutionary setup when compared to the DAC suggested here as I've paired the Ferrums with a Spring3.
> Streamer is a Mercury that works really well in I2S, and the software is a traditional Roon/HQplayer combo.
> 
> I won't add much to what has already being written here but what a tremendous amount of pleasure I get ! Cans are ZMF VC and Utopia (mostly the VC actually).


So you get a tremendous amount of pleasure because or in spite of the Ferrum stack is NOT? a revolutionary set up? Or just compared to the Spring which is revolutionary? So both together are great the Ferrum is standard and the Spring superlative? I'm planning on getting the same DAC/AMP combo...


----------



## EMINENT

Does anyone have a scratching noise heard with headphones on and nothing playing when turning the volume wheel? It doesn't affect sound when listening without turning and it's the only amp that has done this.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

EMINENT said:


> Does anyone have a scratching noise heard with headphones on and nothing playing when turning the volume wheel? It doesn't affect sound when listening without turning and it's the only amp that has done this.


I think this issue has been seen before in this thread, maybe search and see if they found a solution.


----------



## Ckro

ChJL said:


> So you get a tremendous amount of pleasure because or in spite of the Ferrum stack is NOT? a revolutionary set up? Or just compared to the Spring which is revolutionary? So both together are great the Ferrum is standard and the Spring superlative? I'm planning on getting the same DAC/AMP combo...


I meant not revolutionary as in my combo is not a new idea and many people here already have/suggested this pairing (Ferrum/Spring3).
And from my experience and I can now say it actually works


----------



## ChJL

Ckro said:


> I meant not revolutionary as in my combo is not a new idea and many people here already have/suggested this pairing (Ferrum/Spring3).
> And from my experience and I can now say it actually works


I see... I also have decided to trust this "recommendation"/positive feedback! Where would I have the chance to listen to either one of those devices?


----------



## chesebert

EMINENT said:


> Does anyone have a scratching noise heard with headphones on and nothing playing when turning the volume wheel? It doesn't affect sound when listening without turning and it's the only amp that has done this.


I suspect it's dirty contacts/defective pot.


----------



## Tom75

Ckro said:


> I meant not revolutionary as in my combo is not a new idea and many people here already have/suggested this pairing (Ferrum/Spring3).
> And from my experience and I can now say it actually works


Hi. 
Stupid question: is it worth to go for the Spring KTE , when I use i2s between the Spring and the Oor.
Just testing the Pegasus and I think it's worth to go one step further...


----------



## EMINENT

chesebert said:


> I suspect it's dirty contacts/defective pot.



That is quite unfortunate. Anyone know it it could be user serviceable?


bneiderman said:


> Ok thanks for that. I have sent email to HEM to see what they say. Hopefully not defective.


It seems like you had the same thing I am having. What did you find out?


----------



## 801evan

It's quite common with that kind of pot.


----------



## rsbrsvp

I have seen many posts which question the power on the OOR for driving certain cans.

I am looking for a resolution.   Can the OOR in high gain- drive the Susvara to a level of loudness that it unbearably painfully loud?  That is my barometer for knowing if it is powerful enough for me..


----------



## krude

rsbrsvp said:


> I have seen many posts which question the power on the OOR for driving certain cans.
> 
> I am looking for a resolution.   Can the OOR in high gain- drive the Susvara to a level of loudness that it unbearably painfully loud?  That is my barometer for knowing if it is powerful enough for me..


Yes, it can also do it on medium gain if you have a hot dac.


----------



## Ckro

Tom75 said:


> Hi.
> Stupid question: is it worth to go for the Spring KTE , when I use i2s between the Spring and the Oor.
> Just testing the Pegasus and I think it's worth to go one step further...


What do you mean I2S between the Spring and the Oor?
You can either go RCA or XLR. I2S is for DAC inputs.


----------



## bneiderman

Sorry just checked back in. Ferrum tech and I went back and forth a few times about the scratch/static noise while changing volume with nothing playing. They told me that the engineers said they heard the same thing on their devices and that it is normal and not to worry about it.


----------



## FooFighter

bneiderman said:


> Sorry just checked back in. Ferrum tech and I went back and forth a few times about the scratch/static noise while changing volume with nothing playing. They told me that the engineers said they heard the same thing on their devices and that it is normal and not to worry about it.


I can hear no statics while turning the volume wheel neither on TC, Susvara or Solitaire P


----------



## bneiderman

FooFighter said:


> I can hear no statics while turning the volume wheel neither on TC, Susvara or Solitaire P


I remember you saying that but have no clue why Ferrum says their engineers hear it. You trying this on high gain with nothing playing and turning the volume knob quickly????


----------



## FooFighter

bneiderman said:


> I remember you saying that but have no clue why Ferrum says their engineers hear it. You trying this on high gain with nothing playing and turning the volume knob quickly????


just doing it now - nothing.
But my cans are not the most sensitive, no idea how it is using e.g. some IEMs.
Have you tried different headphones?


----------



## bneiderman

FooFighter said:


> just doing it now - nothing.
> But my cans are not the most sensitive, no idea how it is using e.g. some IEMs.
> Have you tried different headphones?


I hear it with ZMF Atrium, Focal Stellia, Fostex TH900 MKII, Audeze LCD-i4 and a few more IEMs. Basically everything. I am not worried about it since they say it is normal. Still would have liked to get a unit like yours. I guess this is something with the volume pot.


----------



## FooFighter

bneiderman said:


> I hear it with ZMF Atrium, Focal Stellia, Fostex TH900 MKII, Audeze LCD-i4 and a few more IEMs. Basically everything. I am not worried about it since they say it is normal. Still would have liked to get a unit like yours. I guess this is something with the volume pot.


Where are you located?
I am sure my Ferrum dealer would replace my unit in such a case...


----------



## SlothRock

bneiderman said:


> I hear it with ZMF Atrium, Focal Stellia, Fostex TH900 MKII, Audeze LCD-i4 and a few more IEMs. Basically everything. I am not worried about it since they say it is normal. Still would have liked to get a unit like yours. I guess this is something with the volume pot.



Not sure I'm a fan of Ferrum's answer. It's pretty common knowledge that when there is scratchiness in the volume control, it's an issue with the volume pot in some way, shape or form. There is no world in which someone would build a $3k amp that would be purposefully noisy when adjusting the volume. I'd see about pressing for a warranty fix.


----------



## bneiderman

FooFighter said:


> Where are you located?
> I am sure my Ferrum dealer would replace my unit in such a case...


I am in Tampa Florida. I ordered from Audio46.


----------



## bneiderman

SlothRock said:


> Not sure I'm a fan of Ferrum's answer. It's pretty common knowledge that when there is scratchiness in the volume control, it's an issue with the volume pot in some way, shape or form. There is no world in which someone would build a $3k amp that would be purposefully noisy when adjusting the volume. I'd see about pressing for a warranty fix.


You think I should reach out to Audio46? Not too inclined to be paying for shipping unless covered under warranty as well.


----------



## ChJL

bneiderman said:


> I am in Tampa Florida. I ordered from Audio46.


Warranty fix +1!
So when you listen to music there is noise as well?


----------



## bneiderman

ChJL said:


> Warranty fix +1!
> So when you listen to music there is noise as well?


No noise when music is playing. And can’t really hear it changing volume while music is playing. Only really obvious changing volume with nothing playing which I only discovered by accident and it seems the other poster did as well.


----------



## FooFighter

bneiderman said:


> You think I should reach out to Audio46? Not too inclined to be paying for shipping unless covered under warranty as well.


I'd do that for sure if I were you.
Am not so familiar with Audio64 as I am located in Europe, I think I only ordered some IEM vacuum cleaner from them before


----------



## bneiderman (May 23, 2022)

Also here is the reply I got from Ferrum. Just copied it from my email:

“Hello Bret,

Our R&D checked couple OOR units on some IEMs and turned out this sound you found was present so it seems this is normal and there is nothing to worry about. According to our engineers this won’t affect sound quality.”

Makes me worried that warranty would be turned down if they say this is normal. I have none of this noise with my Topping D90/A90 stack.


----------



## 801evan

Like I said, this is normal.


----------



## EMINENT

bneiderman said:


> Also here is the reply I got from Ferrum. Just copied it from my email:
> 
> “Hello Bret,
> 
> ...



Yeah, strange that this would be a normal thing they couldn't engineer out like others. 

Sounds to me like if it's not heard in the audio, no care.


----------



## bneiderman

801evan said:


> Like I said, this is normal.


So if this is normal how come this is not heard on all units?


----------



## 801evan

bneiderman said:


> So if this is normal how come this is not heard on all units?


Normal for it to occur....


----------



## EMINENT

bneiderman said:


> So if this is normal how come this is not heard on all units?


Because the ones where it isn't heard are not normal?


----------



## krude

I can report that my unit has this behaviour as well. The good thing is that if you run a decent (~4v and up) source, it is only heard at defeaning volume levels that I would never go to anyway, that's why I never heard it before, but if you run a quiet source, then you might experience it more often. A bit strange and a benefit of a digitally controlled volume chip I guess ... on the flipside you've got infinite adjustability with analogue instead of steps ... but if you have a lot of steps then you're still good ... hmmm ... swings and roundaoubts 🤣


----------



## krude

bneiderman said:


> Also here is the reply I got from Ferrum. Just copied it from my email:
> 
> “Hello Bret,
> 
> ...


Looks like vibration microphonics from the analogue volume pot that the circuitry picks up at high volumes. Don't think you'll notice that at normal listening levels with most source gear, also if you have a dac with volume control you can bypass the volume on Oor all together, just be careful with your dacs volume control so you don't blow your hps or ears.


----------



## 801evan

Nope. It's simply an Alps blue velvet issue. I can reset my unit or bring the pot down to zero kind of combination and it'll be gone until it creeps up again.


----------



## sparkylarky

bneiderman said:


> Sorry just checked back in. Ferrum tech and I went back and forth a few times about the scratch/static noise while changing volume with nothing playing. They told me that the engineers said they heard the same thing on their devices and that it is normal and not to worry about it.


Also tried this out on high gain with DTC and Utopia, nothing, dead quiet when turning the volume knob up to max slowly or quickly.


----------



## krude

801evan said:


> Nope. It's simply an Alps blue velvet issue. I can reset my unit or bring the pot down to zero kind of combination and it'll be gone until it creeps up again.


Could be, thought it sounded like vibration / grind of the analogue pot being amplified at high volume levels 🤷‍♂️


----------



## ChJL (May 24, 2022)

bneiderman said:


> No noise when music is playing. And can’t really hear it changing volume while music is playing. Only really obvious changing volume with nothing playing which I only discovered by accident and it seems the other poster did as well.


On my current amp there is some noise when I adjust the volume even when music is playing. More severe when it's not warmed up. Getting rid of it and will get an Oor... should not occur again, destracting! Good to know when the Oor comes in and shows this "normal" behaviour I will send it back within two weeks, no question asked period...


----------



## miuywu

miuywu said:


> Been a/b testing the Ferrum oor + hypsos against the Xi audio Broadway balanced. Choosing between them is going to be my first super hard decision in this hobby.
> 
> My main setup is rme adi 2 akm + external Amp and abyss diana Tc. I do want to upgrade my dac but haven't found a suitable replacement yet.
> 
> ...


Got a new dac to test these Ferrum Oor vs Xi audio broadway again. 

The resonessence labs Invicta mirus dac is a Saber dac that actually sounds smoother and natural than than the rme adi 2 I was using before. 

Using this warmer smoother dac with both amps
 - OOR played its strengths a little but noticeably better(natural,  timbre, stage size)
 - Broadway actually improved the most as the etched feel was removed entirely. Superior energy bass energy and stage depth. 

The OOR is more neutral for sure. OOR's ability as a smoothness machine pairs amazing with a dry detailed dac like the Rme adi 2 and similar sounding cheaper dacs like the topping d90se and smsl m400 / d1se. Their dry detail is given flavor and the effect is entrancing. The Broadway seems to emphasize the dryness of these dacs in contrast to the OOR. After listening to the OOR for this case, the Broadway became much more fatiguing.

However if the dac is already smooth like the Invicta mirus(also getting an r2r to test soon), the OOR seems to not gain much. Still an improvement in naturalness further tho where inferior amps probably could not. The Broadway with a smooth dac almost closes the gap in naturalness and neutrality. The vocals are center stage instead of in your face vs the rest of the music. Broadway wins in low end and stage depth. One place I saw Broadway wins 100‰ is drum sound. The attack, body and decay of the drums are very immersive. 

Also sorry if im off topic, not sure where comparisons would go and I've always found them to be the most helpful way to decide before a new purchase.


----------



## Gavin C4

bneiderman said:


> Also here is the reply I got from Ferrum. Just copied it from my email:
> 
> “Hello Bret,
> 
> ...


It seems to be part of the volume nob, if you do not adjust the volume on the fly frequently while playing music, I think it will be fine.


----------



## PointyFox

Can try using some contact cleaner.


----------



## Gavin C4 (May 25, 2022)

Some impression of pairing Susvara with Ferrum OOR Hypsos stack versus Topping A90.

I owned the Ferrum stack for quite a while and some of my friends are interested in the amp, therefore I borrowed my Ferrum Stack to let them try it out. Therefore, I am left with Susvara and Topping A90 for a while. The specs and power on paper from the A90 look quite promising. However, the longer I listen, I found myself craving for the slam and punchiness in the bass from the Ferrum Stack. Although the Topping A90 sounded quite clean and detailed, however, the stage did not open up for the Susvara. Susvara sounded detailed enough for listening, however everything sounded really flat on the surface and lacked spacing between them. Bass is there but not as punchy. The sound is there, but it lacked everything else. I really missed the Ferrum Stack.


----------



## dudeX

Gavin C4 said:


> Some impression of pairing Susvara with Ferrum OOR Hypsos stack versus Topping A90.
> 
> I owned the Ferrum stack for quite a while and some of my friends are interested in the amp, therefore I borrowed my Ferrum Stack to let them try it out. Therefore, I am left with Susvara and Topping A90 for a while. The specs and power on paper from the A90 look quite promising. However, the longer I listen, I found myself craving for the slam and punchiness in the bass from the Ferrum Stack. Although the Topping A90 sounded quite clean and detailed, however, the stage did not open up for the Susvara. Susvara sounded detailed enough for listening, however everything sounded really flat on the surface and lacked spacing between them. Bass is there but not as punchy. The sound is there, but it lacked everything else. I really missed the Ferrum Stack.


Matches my experience with the A90. I heard all the details in the Susvara, but bass felt weak, and presentation felt very small. It's not a terrible experience but you can definitely tell that it's being held back. The Ferrum stack makes a big difference.


----------



## Gavin C4 (May 25, 2022)

dudeX said:


> Matches my experience with the A90. I heard all the details in the Susvara, but bass felt weak, and presentation felt very small. It's not a terrible experience but you can definitely tell that it's being held back. The Ferrum stack makes a big difference.



Yup, this is really a no bias impression because I am only left with Susvara and A90 for almost a month. And every time I am listening even on long sections while browsing on the internet, I always felt something is missing from my music. Something is just not right with this combo. Soon I realized that only getting my Ferrum stack back can bring back all the magic. I don't really want to get into the measurement vs sound, heated debate. I guess I can truly confirm that Ferrum just sounded better than the A90 with Susvara. A90 sounded detailed enough and clean, but it must be the secondary aspect that could not be measured that is lacking, such as instrument separation, spacing and width of the stage and even movement of air and dynamics. Though, the issue / ich is not that huge when I am listening to Utopia + A90. But I have to intentionally take Susvara off my head and swap it out with Utopia repeatedly when using the A90 only,


----------



## vcoheda

@Gavin C4 - what are your thoughts about the ferrum stack with the 1266 tc. i have read the ferrum is a good match and powers the headphone sufficiently. is that your experience.


----------



## krude

vcoheda said:


> @Gavin C4 - what are your thoughts about the ferrum stack with the 1266 tc. i have read the ferrum is a good match and powers the headphone sufficiently. is that your experience.


I know you're not asking me 😂 but for me Oor is great with the TC. Plenty of power, plenty of headroom, strong bass, smooth but still airy treble and really good, detailed mids. It "fixes" TCs tonality and brings out awesome level of micro detail. Imaging is also lazer sharp.


----------



## FooFighter

krude said:


> I know you're not asking me 😂 but for me Oor is great with the TC. Plenty of power, plenty of headroom, strong bass, smooth but still airy treble and really good, detailed mids. It "fixes" TCs tonality and brings out awesome level of micro detail. Imaging is also lazer sharp.


+1


----------



## Gavin C4 (May 25, 2022)

vcoheda said:


> @Gavin C4 - what are your thoughts about the ferrum stack with the 1266 tc. i have read the ferrum is a good match and powers the headphone sufficiently. is that your experience.


Totally agree with @krude . 
But I have more to say and a bit more complicated as the 1266 tc is not a simple headphones to deal with in the sumit fi level.

When you throw in the 1266 tc into the mix with Ferrum stack, things actually get really complicated. As Susvara could be the Jack of all trades but master of none. 1266 tc could be the master of everything , but it is built upon owning multiple amp pairing and tailored to your music preference. I have to organize my though to answer your question.


----------



## vcoheda

thanks for the responses. the question was directed at Gavin C4 as i noticed the 1266 in his signature but all responses are welcome and appreciated.


----------



## sparkylarky

Gavin C4 said:


> Yup, this is really a no bias impression because I am only left with Susvara and A90 for almost a month. And every time I am listening even on long sections while browsing on the internet, I always felt something is missing from my music. Something is just not right with this combo. Soon I realized that only getting my Ferrum stack back can bring back all the magic. I don't really want to get into the measurement vs sound, heated debate. I guess I can truly confirm that Ferrum just sounded better than the A90 with Susvara. A90 sounded detailed enough and clean, but it must be the secondary aspect that could not be measured that is lacking, such as instrument separation, spacing and width of the stage and even movement of air and dynamics. Though, the issue / ich is not that huge when I am listening to Utopia + A90. But I have to intentionally take Susvara off my head and swap it out with Utopia repeatedly when using the A90 only,


My old amp was an A90, then i moved to the Ferrum stack. 
The difference was mind-blowing (ignoring which headphone was involved, I currently have DTC and Utopia as TOTLs).
I still have the unplugged A90 sitting there gathering dust, and I have no intention of ever going back using it tbh, so also considering selling it. 
The A90 always felt "clean" but then also "clinical" - The Oor brings out so much more - and definitely in good way. 
Music is more alive, real(-istic) and with a tiny touch of warmth (soul), without ever exaggerating anything.
I have been with the Ferrum stack for almost 2 months now and still looking for a fault/complaint/any negatives, anyone? - but no luck...
[my mainboard version is 4.1]


----------



## PointyFox

Could the difference be less channel separation with the Ferrum stack creating a sort of crossfeed?


----------



## chargedcapacitor

PointyFox said:


> Could the difference be less channel separation with the Ferrum stack creating a sort of crossfeed?


Crosstalk and other measurements show to be below the audible threshold on the OOR: https://goldensound.audio/2021/10/27/ferrum-oor-and-hypsos-measurements/


----------



## dudeX

Gavin C4 said:


> Yup, this is really a no bias impression because I am only left with Susvara and A90 for almost a month. And every time I am listening even on long sections while browsing on the internet, I always felt something is missing from my music. Something is just not right with this combo. Soon I realized that only getting my Ferrum stack back can bring back all the magic. I don't really want to get into the measurement vs sound, heated debate. I guess I can truly confirm that Ferrum just sounded better than the A90 with Susvara. A90 sounded detailed enough and clean, but it must be the secondary aspect that could not be measured that is lacking, such as instrument separation, spacing and width of the stage and even movement of air and dynamics. Though, the issue / ich is not that huge when I am listening to Utopia + A90. But I have to intentionally take Susvara off my head and swap it out with Utopia repeatedly when using the A90 only,


I'd imagine the Utopia works better on the A90 because it is higher sensitivity, so it requires less power. Utopia on OOR with medium gain at CanJam did not sound good to me.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

dudeX said:


> I'd imagine the Utopia works better on the A90 because it is higher sensitivity, so it requires less power. Utopia on OOR with medium gain at CanJam did not sound good to me.


Many people have said the utopia sounds amazing on the OOR. I don't think sensitivity has anything to do with sound. 

That being said, you also heard it in a show room environment.


----------



## Gavin C4 (May 25, 2022)

vcoheda said:


> @Gavin C4 - what are your thoughts about the ferrum stack with the 1266 tc. i have read the ferrum is a good match and powers the headphone sufficiently. is that your experience.



The pairing of the 1266 tc with Ferrum Stack is definitely powerful enough. The 1266 tc doen't require tones of power to scale or perform. I have heard the 1266 tc on multiple amps including Moon 430 HA, Luxman P750u, auris audio nirvana and a few more others. Whereas for speaker amp, including Gryphon 120 and Accuphase E-480. The 1266 tc is actually really dynamic and have really nice base and details in all of them. They actually all performs really well. So I don't really worry about raw power on the Ferrum as it has proven to be powerful enough with the Susvara alone.


I think I will leave a detailed amp comparison to the 1266 tc thread and focus on the Ferrum Stack here.


As I have said previously, 1266 tc could be the master of everything, but it is built upon owning multiple amp pairing that is tailored to your music preference.


In short, I would describe the Ferrum Stack with 1266 tc as your safest pick for multiple genres of music. The Ferrum Stack maintains all the details in the music across all frequencies and leaves the scaling to your DAC, but the Ferrum ensures nothing to be hot or sharp in the top end with the 1266 tc. The very slightly warm characteristic of the Ferrum stack is what really synergizes well with the 1266 tc. It is not overly warm or lush in mids compared to WA 33 or primavera with tube magic.


The Ferrum actually has a slightly intimate sound compared to some other higher end pairing. Soundstage is by no means small, but I have heard wider ones. Some may argue it is a weakness of the Ferrum compared to WA 33 or speaker amp. But the 1266 tc somehow acts as a plus IMO. Since the 1266 tc already naturally have a wide stage, the Ferrum does not add any harm at all. Together with the slightly warm characteristic with slightly intimate vocals, it actually makes the presentation quite natural and solves the issue of distance vocals. Therefore, the Ferrum is the safest pick for all music genres, you have the middle ground.


The stage is wide enough for orchestra music. Vocals are just right for pop music or jazz vocals. Ranging from electronical orientated K-pop (Twice, Taeyeon), or lush emotional vocals on English Jazz Vocals  Diana Krall or Adell. But you just can't beat the WA33 or Primavera or Gryphon 120 or E-480 is this aspect. The Ferrum made the 1266 tc more balanced overall. 

But if you want to unleash the full potential of 1266 tc, you really need multiple amps. One is not enough if you listen to wide rage of music.


----------



## Gavin C4

dudeX said:


> I'd imagine the Utopia works better on the A90 because it is higher sensitivity, so it requires less power. Utopia on OOR with medium gain at CanJam did not sound good to me.


The Utopia is actually amazing with OOR. Imo the signature really synergize well with each other. Really punchy bass, the sound stage presentation and separation is really tailored to Utopia's ability. 

But I totally respect your impression. There are lots of other facinating setup out there.


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## krude (May 26, 2022)

Gavin C4 said:


> The pairing of the 1266 tc with Ferrum Stack is definitely powerful enough. The 1266 tc doen't require tones of power to scale or perform. I have heard the 1266 tc on multiple amps including Moon 430 HA, Luxman P750u, auris audio nirvana and a few more others. Whereas for speaker amp, including Gryphon 120 and Accuphase E-480. The 1266 tc is actually really dynamic and have really nice base and details in all of them. They actually all performs really well. So I don't really worry about raw power on the Ferrum as it has proven to be powerful enough with the Susvara alone.
> 
> 
> I think I will leave a detailed amp comparison to the 1266 tc thread and focus on the Ferrum Stack here.
> ...


This is a very solid answer. TC is a beast and often misunderstood or misrepresented by the reviewers. Oor is probably not the strongest overall pairing with Accuphase and WA33 on the table, but it's a strong contender in it's price bracket. One thing that Oor does exceptionally well is the midrange clarity and detail, while maintaining great imaging and smooth presentation.


----------



## vcoheda

excellent. thank you for the detailed and thoughtful response.


----------



## damascato

How does the ifi iCan Signature stack vs the OOR?


----------



## dudeX

Gavin C4 said:


> The Utopia is actually amazing with OOR. Imo the signature really synergize well with each other. Really punchy bass, the sound stage presentation and separation is really tailored to Utopia's ability.
> 
> But I totally respect your impression. There are lots of other facinating setup out there.


I wish I had a bit more time to spend at CanJam, but I really wanted to try the Utopia with various set ups. On the technicals, everything came through clear and spacious, but what I heard on the OOR that was available for me to use was that every instrument was loud relative to each other, like what you would hear on a IEM when the gain is too high. The Clear MG on the  OOR was very good, but I enjoyed only one song before moving on.


----------



## Gavin C4

One of the things that I really wanted to improve for my Ferrum Stack Susvara combo is the width of the stage and an silghtly more airy stage.


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## chesebert (May 27, 2022)

Gavin C4 said:


> One of the things that I really wanted to improve for my Ferrum Stack Susvara combo is the width of the stage and an silghtly more airy stage.


This will not be easy and requires a bit of trial and error. One effective way to increase soundstage and feel like "you are in the music" is to remove as much of the noise that could get into your dac. Another is to clean up the power you are feeding your dac and amp.


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## chargedcapacitor (May 27, 2022)

chesebert said:


> This will not be easy and requires a bit of trial and error. One effective way to increase soundstage and feel like "you are in the music" is to remove as much of the noise that could get into your dac. Another is to clean up the power you are feeding your dac and amp.


Noise isn't an issue for most modern DACs. The real answer is to just ditch the OOR and get a speaker amp known to give the susvara a large soundstage, such as the Keces S300.

Another option would be to try a stereo separation tool, either through hardware or software. Those are usually gimmicks. The best I have heard was using the iCan Pro Signature as a pre-amp to the OOR, with the 3D switch on the second setting.


----------



## SlothRock

Anyone compare a Benchmark HPA4 to the Ferrum OOR + Hypsos combo? I like my Burson GT but since I have a Euforia tube amp for that tubey, pleasing distortion, I've been looking to replace the Burson with something more neutral and with better measurements. I know both the HPA4 and Ferrum OOR measure well, but curious how they compare from a sound perspective as well? I don't have any hard to drive headphones right now, either.


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## krude

Gavin C4 said:


> One of the things that I really wanted to improve for my Ferrum Stack Susvara combo is the width of the stage and an silghtly more airy stage.


I assume you already run a premium silver cable with Susvara? That opened the top end for me massively and increased the stage hight and width. Other than that tubes, dual mono amps, having a DAC that maximises the stage etc.

Guess for the Oor a premium tube pre would be a good option to try.


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## FooFighter (May 27, 2022)

chargedcapacitor said:


> Noise isn't an issue for most modern DACs. The real answer is to just ditch the OOR and get a speaker amp known to give the susvara a large soundstage, such as the Keces S300.
> 
> Another option would be to try a stereo separation tool, either through hardware or software. Those are usually gimmicks. The best I have heard was using the iCan Pro Signature as a pre-amp to the OOR, with the 3D switch on the second setting.


are you still using this setup right now with Susvara?
Have you tried the xbass feature in that setup with Ican Pro signature as a preamp?
I heard before (I think it was @ufospls2 ) that the old Ican Pro happened to shut down with high load and xbass on - no clue if preamp mode will make a difference.

And yep I think Oor is wonderfully tuned but will never be a soundstage monster compared to some other amps.
Once using headphones with larger stage presentation like TC or Solitaire P it's more than satisfying for me though.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

FooFighter said:


> are you still using this setup right now with Susvara?
> Have you tried the xbass feature in that setup with Ican Pro signature as a preamp?
> I heard before (I think it was @ufospls2 ) that the old Ican Pro happened to shut down with high load and xbass on - no clue if preamp mode will make a difference.
> 
> ...


I was using it for a while, and it was very nice IMO. But then I got coivd, and I lost a little bit of the higher frequency range in my left ear. So I use my RME EQ to balance it out. With the 3D effect turned on, it kind of cancels out the RME EQ balance I have set up. So it isn't very useful to me anymore. 

I never had the iCan signature shut down on me, and I ran it at decent volumes with the xbass turned all the way up. 

The Xbass, 3D, and tube mode all work in the pre-amp mode. I think it actually works best as a pre-amp; the xbass and 3D mode running into the OOR sounds better than just using the native Xbass and 3D on the iCan.


----------



## FooFighter

chargedcapacitor said:


> I was using it for a while, and it was very nice IMO. But then I got coivd, and I lost a little bit of the higher frequency range in my left ear. So I use my RME EQ to balance it out. With the 3D effect turned on, it kind of cancels out the RME EQ balance I have set up. So it isn't very useful to me anymore.
> 
> I never had the iCan signature shut down on me, and I ran it at decent volumes with the xbass turned all the way up.
> 
> The Xbass, 3D, and tube mode all work in the pre-amp mode. I think it actually works best as a pre-amp; the xbass and 3D mode running into the OOR sounds better than just using the native Xbass and 3D on the iCan.


Thx and am very sorry for that hearing loss through Covid.
Am sure many here can feel what it means to get one's favorite hobby maltreated in such a way


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## chargedcapacitor

FooFighter said:


> Thx and am very sorry for that hearing loss through Covid.
> Am sure many here can feel what it means to get one's favorite hobby maltreated in such a way


It's no big deal, my left ear went from being able to hear 17.5khz to only hearing 15khz. There is about a 4-5 dB loss down to 10khz compared to my right ear. With EQ, it's like the loss never existed.


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## dudeX

chargedcapacitor said:


> It's no big deal, my left ear went from being able to hear 17.5khz to only hearing 15khz. There is about a 4-5 dB loss down to 10khz compared to my right ear. With EQ, it's like the loss never existed.


I too went from 17.5 kHz, but to 15 kHz with a 14 kHz notch. It sucks. But it doesn't affect the music too much I think. Maybe a loss of 3dness I guess.


----------



## IanB52

Gavin C4 said:


> One of the things that I really wanted to improve for my Ferrum Stack Susvara combo is the width of the stage and an silghtly more airy stage.


I actually found that using contact enhancer fluid on various connections into the Oor and Ferrum (esp the 4 pin power cable) did increase the stereo width by a 2-3 feet. Probably the bleeding edge of "snake oil" products, but I was able to get some High Fidelity Cables NPS-Q45T before the company went under, which is some kind of black graphene paint-like substance, and it actually worked very well in terms of opening up the soundstage and cleaning up the texture. I hesitate to mention it, just in case the very last bit of it gets bought up.

I think with the Oor the lack of width is because of noise crosstalk, esp from the power connection. If you lower the noise, the channels become more separated.


----------



## SlothRock

Oh lawd I just ordered the OOR + Hypsos combo. This hobby is gonna be the death of me (and definitely my wallet!) 🤣


----------



## krude

SlothRock said:


> Oh lawd I just ordered the OOR + Hypsos combo. This hobby is gonna be the death of me (and definitely my wallet!) 🤣


Give it a good few days to burn in and settle. It's going to be interesting to hear your thoughts evolving when comparing to the GT and Euforia 👍


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## Erwinatm

krude said:


> Give it a good few days to burn in and settle. It's going to be interesting to hear your thoughts evolving when comparing to the GT and Euforia 👍


You have both amps on hand, what are your thoughts?

I was thinking of buying Oor + hypsos before I bought 3Gt, but the store didn't have demo unit to listen. 
The other store next door has 3GT to try, I bought 3Gt then.

Tough competition..huh..😉


----------



## atya35mm

Maybe controversial topic, but do you guys leave Orr Hypsos on 24/7? Obviously will put Hypsos on standby if not thinking of using for a few days, but that's rarely the case for me.


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## SlothRock

krude said:


> Give it a good few days to burn in and settle. It's going to be interesting to hear your thoughts evolving when comparing to the GT and Euforia 👍



Thank ya! I'm excited to hear what you've been hearing between these two and the OOR + Hypsos through its paces haha. I know you've had a hard time on which one you prefer and I feel like it'll likely be the same on my side. Excited to see the results, though!


----------



## lllkkkoo

SlothRock said:


> Thank ya! I'm excited to hear what you've been hearing between these two and the OOR + Hypsos through its paces haha. I know you've had a hard time on which one you prefer and I feel like it'll likely be the same on my side. Excited to see the results, though!


Exciting journey!


----------



## Delta9K

atya35mm said:


> do you guys leave Orr Hypsos on 24/7?


I leave the Hypsos on and the OOR I turn the input selector to Off.  If we go out of town for more than a day or so, then I power them off.


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## atya35mm

Delta9K said:


> I leave the Hypsos on and the OOR I turn the input selector to Off.  If we go out of town for more than a day or so, then I power them off.


forgot about the input selector off switch! thanks for the tip.


----------



## No KNOTsense

My source is the single ended Chord Hugo 2/TT2 feeding my Oor which is driving my Meze Elite with a 1/4" terminated silver cable. Would there be any benefit to having a 4-pin XLR cable instead? I certainly don't need any additional volume.


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## marcus2704

Just going to dive right in and ask a question if I may, please bear in mind I have only just started looking at the Ferrum so have no real familiarity with it yet so am open to suggestion.

I am looking to buy a DAC/AMP for my Diana TCs and the Ferrum came recommended.  It looks like the only option for a DAC is the ERCO combination AMP/DAC.   Have any of you heard this with Diana TC?   I like an exciting, full sound and the TCs are source picky so want to be sure I don't buy something that makes them sound thin and anaemic.


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## Gavin C4

No KNOTsense said:


> My source is the single ended Chord Hugo 2/TT2 feeding my Oor which is driving my Meze Elite with a 1/4" terminated silver cable. Would there be any benefit to having a 4-pin XLR cable instead? I certainly don't need any additional volume.


Your meze is a plannar magnetic headphone, the OOR is designed to be used balanced output. It will convert your source to the balanced out of OOR. It has more current and power in the balanced out, it should give your meze wider dynamics and greater sound stage.


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## Tom75

marcus2704 said:


> Just going to dive right in and ask a question if I may, please bear in mind I have only just started looking at the Ferrum so have no real familiarity with it yet so am open to suggestion.
> 
> I am looking to buy a DAC/AMP for my Diana TCs and the Ferrum came recommended.  It looks like the only option for a DAC is the ERCO combination AMP/DAC.   Have any of you heard this with Diana TC?   I like an exciting, full sound and the TCs are source picky so want to be sure I don't buy something that makes them sound thin and anaemic.


I haven't heard them with Diana TC, but I conpared Erco/Hypsos and Oor/Hypsos with my Elite and with both, the sound was full, detailed with a really nice soundstage. 
The only reason, why I decided to go for Oor/Hypsos was my preference for R2R DACs. But the ESS is very well implemented in the Erco .. big advantage of the Erco is the USB C to connect portable devices very easily...


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## Gavin C4

atya35mm said:


> Maybe controversial topic, but do you guys leave Orr Hypsos on 24/7? Obviously will put Hypsos on standby if not thinking of using for a few days, but that's rarely the case for me.



I usually leave it on the entire day if I am planning to listen. It is because many of us here found that with the OOR warmed up, it will have a fuller and deeper bass. I usually let it warm up a few hours and just leave it on. If I am not listening for a days, I would put Hypsos at stand by mode.


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## Gavin C4

Question about OOR's input sensitivity. 

My DAC dCS Rossini can set the output to either 2 vrms or 6 vrms. Does any one have experience with OOR's sensivity? When I use 6 vrms, the volume will be louder.


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## chesebert

Gavin C4 said:


> Question about OOR's input sensitivity.
> 
> My DAC dCS Rossini can set the output to either 2 vrms or 6 vrms. Does any one have experience with OOR's sensivity? When I use 6 vrms, the volume will be louder.


That’s 12V balanced? Damn, that’s hot.


----------



## damascato

Any take of OOR vs Burson Soloist 3 GT?


----------



## atya35mm

Gavin C4 said:


> I usually leave it on the entire day if I am planning to listen. It is because many of us here found that with the OOR warmed up, it will have a fuller and deeper bass. I usually let it warm up a few hours and just leave it on. If I am not listening for a days, I would put Hypsos at stand by mode.


I flicked the input switch to "0" today, leaving the Hypsos on, and coming back from work, and listen straight away turning input into XLR, and it definitely sounds like something's lacking in the first 15 mins or so. And the Oor was cold to the touch, meaning it's basically off when input is switched to "0". 

So yes, for best result the Oor seems to at least require an hour or couple to warm up to sound best.


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## buson160man

damascato said:


> Any take of OOR vs Burson Soloist 3 GT?


I myself do not like the new Burson offerings. I had a Burson Ref 3 and found it to have a digital signature which I believe is due to the switching power supply they use. I compared it to my old Buron Ha-160 and I much preferred the sound of the Ha-160. I kept the Ha-160 and traded the Burson Ref 3 on a Sonnett Morpheus dac/preamp. You might want to consider picking up a used Burson Ha-150 it is a wonderful sounding headphone amplifier.  It is only a headphone amp and does not offer any preamp capability.  The Burson Ha-160 is built like a tank and Mine is still working great after may years of use.


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## Gavin C4 (May 30, 2022)

damascato said:


> Any take of OOR vs Burson Soloist 3 GT?


The Soloist 3 GT actually does have a very slightly wider stage than the OOR. But it is less textured and less 3 dimensional compared to the OOR, but with better left and right width. OOR imo have a better-tuned tonality overall that sounded really natural and pleasing and has the same level of detail. OOR is tuned for its very dynamic and slamming bass. Vocals are textured with just enough warmth for enjoyment. I preferred the OOR with Hypsos. and Fan noise on GT......


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## krude

damascato said:


> Any take of OOR vs Burson Soloist 3 GT?


Search this thread and answers you shall find 🤠


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## Gavin C4

The Ferrum OOR is really a fascinating amp, even though it has a slightly colored tuning with punchy and great slam in the bass and sweet vocals. It does not mask off the quality of your upfront source gears. It maintains the sound from your DAC and all other related components including power components. I have heard the Ferrum Stack paired with multiple DACs in different systems including SoulNote D-3, Holo May and dCS Rossini. All of them sounded really different through Susvara. The OOR is capable to reveal the characteristic of all these fascinating DACs. OOR makes every component in your system count and worthwhile up get higher quality upfront gear for better scaling.


----------



## SlothRock

OOR + Hypsos & my Spring 3 KTE are both now arriving on Friday of this week!! Time to put 'em both through their paces, compare to the GT and see what all the hype is about in here. Looking forward to it


----------



## vcoheda

nice selection. i was looking at the holo dacs as well as denafrips when i was revamping my system but ultimately decided that i wanted a dac with network capabilities.

pretty high output on the spring. information from the specs notes: DAC Voltage Output 2.9Vrms (RCA), 5.8Vrms (XLR).

i wonder if you will have to run low gain on the oor, assuming you are using balanced connection.


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## SlothRock

Ya - I wasn't sure about how the output will impact my usage of both my amps. I _think _you are able to turn down the volume on the Spring 3 so, if that's the case, I will likely reduce the volume there and keep the OOR in medium gain for my ZMF's


----------



## Delta9K

Using the Spring 3 balanced output I run with the OOR at medium (0) gain setting, even when working the Susvara.


----------



## Gavin C4

SlothRock said:


> OOR + Hypsos & my Spring 3 KTE are both now arriving on Friday of this week!! Time to put 'em both through their paces, compare to the GT and see what all the hype is about in here. Looking forward to it





vcoheda said:


> nice selection. i was looking at the holo dacs as well as denafrips when i was revamping my system but ultimately decided that i wanted a dac with network capabilities.
> 
> pretty high output on the spring. information from the specs notes: DAC Voltage Output 2.9Vrms (RCA), 5.8Vrms (XLR).
> 
> i wonder if you will have to run low gain on the oor, assuming you are using balanced connection.



Similar situation here, running Holo May and Ferrum Stack with Susvara, it can handle all types of track on Mid (0) gain. 

Also tried with dCS Bartok and Rossini, when I set the XLR output to 6 vrms, same volume as Holo May. If I set the XLR output to 2 vrms, I will have to flip to high gain on Ferrum OOR for some classical.


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## 21qz (Jun 2, 2022)

What streamer you guys using?


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## Gavin C4

21qz said:


> What streamer you guys using?



I am currently using dCS Rossini as strraming DAC, whereas for those who have a DAC that does not have built in streaming ability, such as Holo May I added a lumin streamer.


----------



## 21qz

How about the Ifi stream?


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## Gavin C4

21qz said:


> How about the Ifi stream?


I use Roon too, it is a really good streaming software with wonderful interface and integration with Tidal streaming services. Ifi works with Roon too. You can trial Roon and see how it works for you.


----------



## Delta9K

21qz said:


> How about the Ifi stream?


I hear good things about it - couple of my friends have one and like it. IIRC though, it does not have USB, AES, or i2s out so you would need to use the Springs coaxial SPDIF input. I'm using an Sonore UltraRendu which allows me to leverage the Spring 3 KTE USB port.


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## SlothRock (Jun 4, 2022)

Oh hello . Just landed - putting it through its paces now! Starting with the preamp out to my Neumann KH120A’s. Haven’t found a single review/comment on the preamp of the OOR so this felt like the right place to begin!


----------



## Gavin C4

SlothRock said:


> Oh hello . Just landed - putting it through its paces now! Starting with the preamp out to my Neumann KH120A’s. Haven’t found a single review/comment on the preamp of the OOR so this felt like the right place to begin!



Base on the quality of the headphone amp of the Ferrum OOR stack, I bet some sonical aspect will translate to the preamp.


----------



## Tom75

Gavin C4 said:


> Base on the quality of the headphone amp of the Ferrum OOR stack, I bet some sonical aspect will translate to the preamp.


I have the same combo here with Oor/Hypsos/KTE.
And I'm also interested in the preamp discussion.  Curious, if anybody uses a tube amp with the Oor...

And, but off topic here: looking for a  good streamer with i2s. May be a Cayin iDAP6?


----------



## TheMiddleSky

Some initial comparison between Ferrum Oor/Hypsos and Burson Grand Tourer (Without Supercharger): 
- Ferrum stack is close to neutral with a hint of sweetness and slight more mid centric presentation
- Burson GT, while also close to neutral, feel snappier, more aggressive, produce more impact and bite through all spectrum
- Soundstage on Ferrum is excellent, imaging is "sharp" and accurate. Easily track pin point every single notes.
- Burson GT perform excellent as well, but with more "floating" effect. More airy, wider presentation.
- Micro detail and the ultimate transparency is a little better in Ferrum, but Burson produce "harder" dynamic effect.

I think both amp perform really nice in Solid State world. Especially if we compare to something like  Formula S/Powerman that significantly more expensive. 

For warmer, and more relax headphone like ZMF, Burson may take the lead in enjoyment. However for something cleaner and more revealing like Diana TC, I like Ferrum more.


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## SlothRock (Jun 4, 2022)

Initial impressions:

-The clarity on this amp is through. the. roof! When paired with the KTE I am just hearing every single possible detail that there could be in songs. I was listening through my Atrium and was extremely impressed how much more detail I was hearing.
-The famous bass this thing outputs is no joke. It is absolutely fantastic. Impact and sizzle while being able to hear every bass note perfectly! Love love love bass heavy tracks on this setup.
-The preamp is killer! I had a buddy over yesterday listening to music and gaming who isn’t as into this hobby as I am but when I started playing songs through my speakers with the preamp he immediately said “Whoah!” because the difference was that obvious. Brings the same precision, clarity, bass impact, etc to speakers.
-Lastly, through all of this, I never felt fatigued once. With the KTE and OOR working together, every time a song was going to hit a high note that I may normally wince it, it would control the highs masterfully that it’d reach the very edge but never ever become fatiguing. Really love that.

Really enjoying this combo A LOT so far! I got a lot more listening to do. Oh, one last thing, the ease of use is just *chefs kiss*. Love how everything just works with no fuss, menus to toggle through, etc..



TheMiddleSky said:


> Some initial comparison between Ferrum Oor/Hypsos and Burson Grand Tourer (Without Supercharger):
> - Ferrum stack is close to neutral with a hint of sweetness and slight more mid centric presentation
> - Burson GT, while also close to neutral, feel snappier, more aggressive, produce more impact and bite through all spectrum
> - Soundstage on Ferrum is excellent, imaging is "sharp" and accurate. Easily track pin point every single notes.
> ...


Really nice comparison and so far I think I agree with everything you’ve said! These are both phenomenal amps with different flavors to them. I’d put Burson slightly more akin to a solid state tube amp with its more floaty effect. I’m undecided which of these two feels snappier. I agree the Burson has the lead in impact, but I am kinda feeling like the OOR is snappier and “faster”.

OOR definitely has a lean towards sweeter mids. I think that’s why I’m loving the pairing with the Atriums since that’s their forte as well. Both fantastic amps


----------



## TheMiddleSky

SlothRock said:


> Initial impressions:
> 
> -The clarity on this amp is through. the. roof! When paired with the KTE I am just hearing every single possible detail that there could be in songs. I was listening through my Atrium and was extremely impressed how much more detail I was hearing.
> -The famous bass this thing outputs is no joke. It is absolutely fantastic. Impact and sizzle while being able to hear every bass note perfectly! Love love love bass heavy tracks on this setup.
> ...


I would agree with this as well. While delivering transparent detail, Ferrum manage to do it in proper manner, and not cause fatigue.


----------



## krude

SlothRock said:


> Initial impressions:
> 
> -The clarity on this amp is through. the. roof! When paired with the KTE I am just hearing every single possible detail that there could be in songs. I was listening through my Atrium and was extremely impressed how much more detail I was hearing.
> -The famous bass this thing outputs is no joke. It is absolutely fantastic. Impact and sizzle while being able to hear every bass note perfectly! Love love love bass heavy tracks on this setup.
> ...


Nice one, looking forward to more impressions. It will burn in as well  both the dac and Ferrum.


----------



## lllkkkoo

SlothRock said:


> Initial impressions:
> 
> -The clarity on this amp is through. the. roof! When paired with the KTE I am just hearing every single possible detail that there could be in songs. I was listening through my Atrium and was extremely impressed how much more detail I was hearing.
> -The famous bass this thing outputs is no joke. It is absolutely fantastic. Impact and sizzle while being able to hear every bass note perfectly! Love love love bass heavy tracks on this setup.
> ...


in my system with oor stack and chord qutest, i much prefer turning the features on the hypsos both off - the 4tsd and the sound spectrum. This could be because i use a robust power supply to power all the chain so i dont need additional clarity.. heh. That setting and the atrium is just magical for me, the balance between clarity and musicality, i also turned the voltage all the way down to 22.0V... tried 28-30V and hated it with the atrium. now.. i just need to save up for KTE...


----------



## SlothRock

Quick question for OOR+Hypsos vets: how do you turn the Hypsos on standby mode?

One thing I’ve been playing around with is how I can just turn the OOR+Hypsos on and off just using the front controls without flipping the power switch in the back.

If you turn the dial to “off” on the OOR, it does turn it off but the lights stay on which I’m not a fan of. I went into the Hypsos and saw a brightness mode for standby specifically. When I turn the OOR off, though, I would figure that puts the Hypsos into standby but the light also stays on for the Hypsos, indicating it’s not in standby (because I turned the light off in the options for standby mode).

What am I missing to get the Hypsos into standby?


----------



## MisterButthead

SlothRock said:


> Quick question for OOR+Hypsos vets: how do you turn the Hypsos on standby mode?


Press and hold the Hypsos knob for about a second and it will enter standby mode.  To turn it back on, simply press the knob.


----------



## SlothRock

MisterButthead said:


> Press and hold the Hypsos knob for about a second and it will enter standby mode.  To turn it back on, simply press the knob.


Boom - you single handedly solved my problem with this! Can turn off everything from the front now and the lights go off with it. Woo hoo!


----------



## Tom75

Just asking again:
Has anybody implemented a tube pre amp in his chain with Oorr/Hypsos? May be it's the burn in phase of my Spring3 KTE, but I'm slightly missing some smoothness with the Elite...


----------



## krude

Tom75 said:


> Just asking again:
> Has anybody implemented a tube pre amp in his chain with Oorr/Hypsos? May be it's the burn in phase of my Spring3 KTE, but I'm slightly missing some smoothness with the Elite...


Do you do anything for power? Power conditioner smoothed out my system quite a bit.


----------



## Tom75

krude said:


> Do you do anything for power? Power conditioner smoothed out my system quite a bit.


No. Not yet.


----------



## kingoftown1

Make sure you give the spring a full 500 hours to burn in too


----------



## Gavin C4

Ferrum OOR mid vocals sweetness is really enjoyable. Almost to the state of euphonic feeling, but it never leave out any details and does not scrafice any thing. Basically no compromise. The addition of well known bass slam is just iceing on the cake.


----------



## TheR0v3r

Tom75 said:


> Just asking again:
> Has anybody implemented a tube pre amp in his chain with Oorr/Hypsos? May be it's the burn in phase of my Spring3 KTE, but I'm slightly missing some smoothness with the Elite...


Congrats on wonderful setup! 

To answer your question, I used to have a tube preamp in my chain but felt it was unnecessary with OOR + Hypsos.


----------



## TheR0v3r (Jun 6, 2022)

Gavin C4 said:


> First, we are starting to getting into the uncharted territory of the headphone world when discussing about dedicated preamp for headphones. Though, it is a well studied aspect in the Hifi 2 channel world. Not many guys here have tons of experience about preamp, including me. I have only came across 3-4 2-channel systems preamp and I listend to them from different 2-channel systems. Not headphones system. Though, they are all uber-expensive 2-channel preamps. This includes Gryphone Zena Preamp, Gryphon Pandora Preamp, Gryphon Essence Preamp, Soulnote P3 preamp and Esoteric preamps.
> 
> It really depends on what sound signature you would like to achieve. After adding a preamp, another pair of XLR interconnect and power cord will introduce some degree of coloration and change.
> 
> ...


Reading this thread has been such a pleasure.

But the main reason I decided to register an account here was because of this post by @Gavin C4 . The points made about coloration, risk of introducing bottle necks, increasing cost and opportunity cost are brilliant. It really made me rethink my system and led to a complete rebuild.

Thank you!


----------



## Tom75

TheR0v3r said:


> Congrats on wonderful setup!
> 
> To answer your question, I used to have a tube preamp in my chain but felt it was unnecessary with OOR + Hypsos.


The reason is, I'm missing some warmth in the  chain. Not much. Only slightly. May be, my ears  Was only an idea.  
But:
I heard the Carla Bruni track  "enjoy the silence " with Elite and N8ii, Elite with Oor/Hypsos/Spring3 KTE and tham EXT and Phoenix (both with N8ii).
The voice of Bruni with the Ferrum stack/KTE and Elite was outstanding. You can hear her breathe. All other combinations were on a high level, but this vocal presentation was exceptional. Never heard it this way.
.


----------



## TheR0v3r

Tom75 said:


> The reason is, I'm missing some warmth in the  chain. Not much. Only slightly. May be, my ears  Was only an idea.
> But:
> I heard the Carla Bruni track  "enjoy the silence " with Elite and N8ii, Elite with Oor/Hypsos/Spring3 KTE and tham EXT and Phoenix (both with N8ii).
> The voice of Bruni with the Ferrum stack/KTE and Elite was outstanding. You can hear her breathe. All other combinations were on a high level, but this vocal presentation was exceptional. Never heard it this way.
> .


I’m not surprised that the vocal presentation was exceptional. Your DAC, headphone amplifier and headphones are outstanding pieces of gear .

FYI, the preamp I was using was the Primaluna Evo 400. After my rebuild I now have a Merason DAC 1 (some similarity in sound to Holo Dacs) and the Ferrum stack, no preamp necessary.


----------



## iFi audio

TheR0v3r said:


> FYI, the preamp I was using was the Primaluna Evo 400. After my rebuild I now have a Merason DAC 1 (some similarity in sound to Holo Dacs) and the Ferrum stack, no preamp necessary.



I was just about to ask you what setup got you to the destination place, but now I don't have to 

What about your cans if I may ask?


----------



## TheR0v3r (Jun 6, 2022)

iFi audio said:


> I was just about to ask you what setup got you to the destination place, but now I don't have to
> 
> What about your cans if I may ask?


Yes, of course. Love to share experiences with different gear.

My main headphones are the ZMF Verité Open with the Verité pads (I also have a old pair of Sennheiser HD 650). Now I’m looking forward to adding one or two planar magnetic headphones. I love, love, love the Hifiman Susvara but would like to audition the Meze Elites, DCA Stealth and T+A before making any decision. The Susvara is soo expensive…


----------



## iFi audio

TheR0v3r said:


> Yes, of course. Love to share experiences with different gear.
> 
> My main headphones are the ZMF Verité Open with the Verité pads (I also have a old pair of Sennheiser HD 650). Now I’m looking forward to adding one or two planar magnetic headphones. I love, love, love the Hifiman Susvara but would like to audition the Meze Elites and DCA Stealth before making any decision. The Susvara is soo expensive…



Thanks! And yes, Susvara is expensive, but quite spectacular and surely worth taking into consideration if funds allow. Auditioning those Mezes and DCAs prior to any commitments is a solid plan. Who knows, mybe these will be up your alley more. Enjoy!


----------



## SlothRock

So I'm currently burning in the KTE by just leaving it on until it reaches roughly the 200 hour mark via the recommendations from folks in that thread. I understand the OOR also changes quite a bit with burn in - for folks that have done it, do you simply leave it on as well until it hits X amount of hours?


----------



## iFi audio

SlothRock said:


> for folks that have done it, do you simply leave it on as well until it hits X amount of hours?



I would use that amp in a setup with some quiet music on a loop for X amount of hours, thanks!


----------



## duranxv

Tom75 said:


> Just asking again:
> Has anybody implemented a tube pre amp in his chain with Oorr/Hypsos? May be it's the burn in phase of my Spring3 KTE, but I'm slightly missing some smoothness with the Elite...



Yes.  I use a Woo Audio WA22 as my tube pre-amp into my OOR/Hypsos stack.  Pairs beautifully.  Bass is deep and the tubes add that extra sense of dynamics and holographic sound.

 I also use a Spring 3 KTE as my DAC.  You need to let it burn in for a few hundred hours, and always keep it on so it maintains thermal stability.


----------



## sonicsailor (Jun 8, 2022)

I am wondering if anyone else is having the problem I am experiencing with the Hypsos/Oor stack.
Driving a pair of Susvara’s with XLR, if I move around a bit on my sofa or get up to adjust the volume, one or usually both, channels stop playing and only static can be heard. I suspect this is an extreme sensitivity to a small electrostatic discharge into the headphones. I have to power cycle the stack through standby mode to regain the music signal. I’ve never had this happen with previous amps.
I would like to know if this is typical, and if anyone else has experienced this behavior.


----------



## 801evan

sonicsailor said:


> I am wondering if anyone else is having the problem I am experiencing with the Hypsos/Oor stack.
> Driving a pair of Susvara’s with XLR, if I move around a bit on my sofa or get up to adjust the volume, one or usually both, channels stop playing and only static can be heard. I suspect this is an extreme sensitivity to a small electrostatic discharge into the headphones. I have to power cycle the stack through standby mode to regain the music signal. I’ve never had this happen with previous amps.
> I would like to know if this is typical, and if anyone else has experienced this behavior.


Maybe weak cable build that's shorting and amp is going into protection.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Jun 8, 2022)

sonicsailor said:


> I am wondering if anyone else is having the problem I am experiencing with the Hypsos/Oor stack.
> Driving a pair of Susvara’s with XLR, if I move around a bit on my sofa or get up to adjust the volume, one or usually both, channels stop playing and only static can be heard. I suspect this is an extreme sensitivity to a small electrostatic discharge into the headphones. I have to power cycle the stack through standby mode to regain the music signal. I’ve never had this happen with previous amps.
> I would like to know if this is typical, and if anyone else has experienced this behavior.



It might be your cables 3.5 mm connection with the headphone is getting loose and bad contact. Did you try on a different amp? Or different cable. Because when you move around, the part that is moving or strained and withstanding all the force is the headphone cable and the 3.5 connection. That OOR on the desk with XLR is not moving at all. A bad contact cable might short the amp and goes into protection.


----------



## Gavin C4

duranxv said:


> Yes.  I use a Woo Audio WA22 as my tube pre-amp into my OOR/Hypsos stack.  Pairs beautifully.  Bass is deep and the tubes add that extra sense of dynamics and holographic sound.
> 
> I also use a Spring 3 KTE as my DAC.  You need to let it burn in for a few hundred hours, and always keep it on so it maintains thermal stability.



R2R dacs and the OOR both are made up of carefully selected resistors and components. The termals of the components will affect their performance. I usually leave the DAC and Amp on for most of the day to let them reach thermal stability. The OOR will sounded fuller in the bass if it is properly warmed up.


----------



## iFi audio

sonicsailor said:


> Driving a pair of Susvara’s with XLR, if I move around a bit on my sofa or get up to adjust the volume, one or usually both, channels stop playing and only static can be heard.



This might be either a fault of some mechanical connections somewhere, i.e. cables, a problem with power supply, or an issue with headhone socket/cable. If I were you I'd try swappind cables one by one to see whether there's any improvement. Hope this helps, thanks!


----------



## dudeX

sonicsailor said:


> I am wondering if anyone else is having the problem I am experiencing with the Hypsos/Oor stack.
> Driving a pair of Susvara’s with XLR, if I move around a bit on my sofa or get up to adjust the volume, one or usually both, channels stop playing and only static can be heard. I suspect this is an extreme sensitivity to a small electrostatic discharge into the headphones. I have to power cycle the stack through standby mode to regain the music signal. I’ve never had this happen with previous amps.
> I would like to know if this is typical, and if anyone else has experienced this behavior.


I had this happen with my Susvara using the stock catheter cable. After I upgraded to a nicer cable (shoutout to Viking Weave Cables and Double Helix Cables) the problem went away. I would get a slight loss of signal and then a bit of static whenever the cable end touched my shoulder when I titled my head slightly, or when I turned left/right quickly. Replacing the cable made a difference.


----------



## sonicsailor

801evan said:


> Maybe weak cable build that's shorting and amp is going into protection.


I don’t think so, these are the same cables I used with my previous amp with no problem. Also, only shaking my head around doesn’t ever “short” anything, only when I slide around in my seat or get up and walk on the carpet.


----------



## sonicsailor

iFi audio said:


> This might be either a fault of some mechanical connections somewhere, i.e. cables, a problem with power supply, or an issue with headhone socket/cable. If I were you I'd try swappind cables one by one to see whether there's any improvement. Hope this helps, thanks!


Thank, I’ll try that


----------



## 801evan

sonicsailor said:


> I don’t think so, these are the same cables I used with my previous amp with no problem. Also, only shaking my head around doesn’t ever “short” anything, only when I slide around in my seat or get up and walk on the carpet.


Maybe static coz such movement travelling to the amp... 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️


----------



## SlothRock

801evan said:


> Maybe static coz such movement travelling to the amp... 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️


Thats what it sounds like to me


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Gavin C4 said:


> It might be your cables 3.5 mm connection with the headphone is getting loose and bad contact. Did you try on a different amp? Or different cable. Because when you move around, the part that is moving or strained and withstanding all the force is the headphone cable and the 3.5 connection. That OOR on the desk with XLR is not moving at all. A bad contact cable might short the amp and goes into protection.


This.    I have a lot of components connected to my DAC and I was getting some channel loss, but that was due to a loose connection.  Once I fixed it, the problem was resolved.  I would make sure all of the connectors are solidly in place and not accidentally touching each other.


----------



## rsbrsvp

Has anyone ever used the oor/hypsos as a preamp with another headphone amplifier?


----------



## SLC1966 (Jun 9, 2022)

sonicsailor said:


> I don’t think so, these are the same cables I used with my previous amp with no problem. Also, only shaking my head around doesn’t ever “short” anything, only when I slide around in my seat or get up and walk on the carpet.


This happened to me a few times.   It has not happened for awhile.  I cannot remember if it was with VC, Stealth or LCD5.  It only happened if I was sliding out of my chair.  I live in a dry static place.  My assumption is that it was a static charge going through the cable to the Ferrum stack.


----------



## sonicsailor

SLC1966 said:


> This happened to me a few times.   It has not happened for awhile.  I cannot remember if it was with VC, Stealth or LCD5.  It only happened if I was sliding out of my chair.  I live in a dry static place.  My assumption is that it was a static charge going through the cable to the Ferrum stack.


Thanks for that feedback. I’ve been testing with different cables and various levels of humidity and am certain a static discharge is triggering the Oor to drop the signal and deliver only continuous static, sometimes only in one channel, very odd.
The upside, if you can call it that, is that with my previous amp the static discharge was, painfully, to my ears; that amp was not grounded and the signal was never lost. So the grounding on the Oor makes the difference as the discharge is through the amp and not through my noggin.
Over the long run, have you found it a significant inconvenience?


----------



## Gavin C4

Not official. Aftermarket power cable for Ferrum Devices.  

Although the stock cable connecting the Ferrum Hypsos and OOR is already very high quality and it is part of Ferrum’s house sound and tuning. It could not stop headphone enthusiast to build some extra after market cables connecting the Hypsos power supply and the OOR. Below are two different aftermarket cables, one made of OFC copper and other silver plated OFC copper. Both has a shift in tonality to the OOR tailored for your listening preference. Some thing fun for enthusiast, but you must confirm the cable is correctly made with 4 pin connection.


----------



## chesebert

Gavin C4 said:


> Not official. Aftermarket power cable for Ferrum Devices.
> 
> Although the stock cable connecting the Ferrum Hypsos and OOR is already very high quality and it is part of Ferrum’s house sound and tuning. It could not stop headphone enthusiast to build some extra after market cables connecting the Hypsos power supply and the OOR. Below are two different aftermarket cables, one made of OFC copper and other silver plated OFC copper. Both has a shift in tonality to the OOR tailored for your listening preference. Some thing fun for enthusiast, but you must confirm the cable is correctly made with 4 pin connection.


Should make 0 difference from the stock given you are transmitting dc. There is no signal, just whatever dc output from the powers supply. Did you hear a difference?


----------



## 801evan (Jun 11, 2022)

chesebert said:


> Should make 0 difference from the stock given you are transmitting dc. There is no signal, just whatever dc output from the powers supply. Did you hear a difference?


Big difference. My silver occ build took out the huge haze issue plaguing the hypsos that's why I know how to decode what ppl are saying about the combo and taking their impressions with a grain of salt. Tho when someone says different cables give different tonality shifts, it really is just congestion on different area of the FR.


----------



## chesebert

801evan said:


> Big difference. My silver occ build took out the huge haze issue plaguing the hypsos that's why I know how to decode what ppl are saying about the combo and taking their impressions with a grain of salt. Tho when someone says different cables give different tonality shifts, it really is just congestion on different area of the FR.


 dc cable makes a difference in sound quality? Were the DIY cables made using the same stock plugs?


----------



## 801evan

chesebert said:


> dc cable makes a difference in sound quality? Were the DIY cables made using the same stock plugs?


There's practically only one weipu manufacturer. I use Oyaide but different plugs won't give more haze. Different plug quality will give different extension, smoothness and grain quality...not haze. So it really is about the stock cable having haze.


----------



## Gavin C4

chesebert said:


> Should make 0 difference from the stock given you are transmitting dc. There is no signal, just whatever dc output from the powers supply. Did you hear a difference?



Hope you would come across one at local dealers, hifi meets or at shows and listen for yourself. I am not hear to make you believe in anything. Believe you own ears.


----------



## chesebert (Jun 12, 2022)

Gavin C4 said:


> Hope you would come across one at local dealers, hifi meets or at shows and listen for yourself. I am not hear to make you believe in anything. Believe you own ears.


I have amps with separate power supplies that have always been connected to the amps via their stock umbilical cords. I will reserve judgement for the time being until I can procure a DIY alternative for testing. Interesting observation - makes no sense from an EE perspective, but interesting.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

Gavin C4 said:


> Hope you would come across one at local dealers, hifi meets or at shows and listen for yourself. I am not hear to make you believe in anything. Believe you own ears.


You can not switch the power cables fast enough to do a proper A/B comparison. Our ears and brain will relax to the point where the next loud sounds we hear appear different form the one before. I would bet my house that if you waited the same amount of time that it takes to switch cables to listen again, it would sound very different as well. That's just how our bodies work. You can do the same thing with all audio part comparisons. It is a wonderful control variable when blind testing.

Also, as an electrical engineer, DC cables making a difference is the BIGGEST load of bull anyone can possibly say.


----------



## 801evan (Jun 12, 2022)

Nothing like seeing close-minded EE in the forums.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Jun 12, 2022)

A switch or spliter for Ferrum Hypsos to allow us to connect two different devices if the sum power rating is with in Ferrum Hypsos limit. Nice and inovation prodoct.

What if Ferrum can release a ultimate Mono block (duo mono) amp , and require plugging in two Hypsos to power both separate left and right channel for a even more powerfull and high quality out put.


----------



## 801evan

Gavin C4 said:


> A switch or spliter for Ferrum Hypsos to allow us to connect two different devices if the sum power rating is with in Ferrum Hypsos limit. Nice and inovation prodoct.
> 
> What if Ferrum can release a ultimate Mono block (duo mono) amp , and require plugging in two Hypsos to power both separate left and right channel for a even more powerfull and high quality out put.


Sadly such things hurt the SQ a lot. But it's a cost saver.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Jun 12, 2022)

Ignorance is Bliss

Ignorance in audio is actually a blessing. Nothing for you to desire if you can't hear it. Save you tons of money.


----------



## Gavin C4

801evan said:


> Sadly such things hurt the SQ a lot. But it's a cost saver.


I think ferrum only does it for shows to save a few Hypsos on travel, or it can be used to power low power requirement devices including ddc boxes or internet switches.


----------



## 801evan

Gavin C4 said:


> I think ferrum only does it for shows to save a few Hypsos on travel, or it can be used to power low power requirement devices including ddc boxes or internet switches.


Right. For users, one is better off getting two ifi Elites at this rate. Different voltage options too.


----------



## TheR0v3r

I’m so very, very pleased with the Oor + Hypsos combo. It’s just amazing being able to adjust output voltage from Hypsos and gain from Oor combined with parametric eq in Roon - my headphones have never sounded better !


----------



## Gavin C4

TheR0v3r said:


> I’m so very, very pleased with the Oor + Hypsos combo. It’s just amazing being able to adjust output voltage from Hypsos and gain from Oor combined with parametric eq in Roon - my headphones have never sounded better !



What headphone and what voltage setting do you use for your OOR? As  as discussed previously a few of is prefered the voltage of 28-30 for Susvara for more transparent and air and openness in the presentation


----------



## K3cT

I finally got a chance to listen to this over the weekend. The sound is great but the finish and build quality are a bit below the asking price tag. 😅


----------



## 801evan

K3cT said:


> I finally got a chance to listen to this over the weekend. The sound is great but the finish and build quality are a bit below the asking price tag. 😅


Wait till you find out about ugly sneakers.


----------



## TheR0v3r (Jun 13, 2022)

Gavin C4 said:


> What headphone and what voltage setting do you use for your OOR? As  as discussed previously a few of is prefered the voltage of 28-30 for Susvara for more transparent and air and openness in the presentation


I’m using the ZMF Verité Open with Verité pads. The Hypsos is set at an output voltage of 22V and running OOR on low gain. Lowering the voltage gave me better more ”air” (better soundstage width and depth) and lowering the gain gave me a ”slower” headphone with less aggressive dynamics. I’ll now revisit some other pads (Uni and BE2) and see what gives when adjusting gain 

I love, love, love the Susvara and think the Ferrum OOR + Hypsos would be the perfect amplication for it. I’m guessing that 28-30V with high gain would be most excellent.


----------



## Gavin C4

TheR0v3r said:


> I’m using the ZMF Verité Open with Verité pads. The Hypsos is set at an output voltage of 22V and running OOR on low gain. Lowering the voltage gave me better more ”air” (better soundstage width and depth) and lowering the gain gave me a ”slower” headphone with less aggressive dynamics. I’ll now revisit some other pads (Uni and BE2) and see what gives when adjusting gain
> 
> I love, love, love the Susvara and think the Ferrum OOR + Hypsos would be the perfect amplication for it. I’m guessing that 28-30V with high gain would be most excellent.



Mid gain or high gain on the OOR with the Susvara really depends on if the source is hot. For example, with Holo May DACs, it is outputting around 6v on balanced, and on mid gain 12 o’clock, the Susvara is already relatively loud. Whereas for some other DACs with around 2v output, it would require high gain.


----------



## TheR0v3r

Gavin C4 said:


> Mid gain or high gain on the OOR with the Susvara really depends on if the source is hot. For example, with Holo May DACs, it is outputting around 6v on balanced, and on mid gain 12 o’clock, the Susvara is already relatively loud. Whereas for some other DACs with around 2v output, it would require high gain.


Yes, that makes alot of sense. My DAC outputs around 2-3v so that lead me to think high gain. Thanks for the explanation.


----------



## EMINENT

TheR0v3r said:


> I’m using the ZMF Verité Open with Verité pads. The Hypsos is set at an output voltage of 22V and running OOR on low gain. Lowering the voltage gave me better more ”air” (better soundstage width and depth) and lowering the gain gave me a ”slower” headphone with less aggressive dynamics. I’ll now revisit some other pads (Uni and BE2) and see what gives when adjusting gain
> 
> I love, love, love the Susvara and think the Ferrum OOR + Hypsos would be the perfect amplication for it. I’m guessing that 28-30V with high gain would be most excellent.



I wish I could tell a difference with the voltages. I've tried many times. Maybe it's my gear.


----------



## TheR0v3r

EMINENT said:


> I wish I could tell a difference with the voltages. I've tried many times. Maybe it's my gear.


What!? You seem to have a brilliant setup. Congrats


----------



## EMINENT (Jun 13, 2022)

TheR0v3r said:


> What!? You seem to have a brilliant setup. Congrats


Thanks, same!

Maybe something in my setup is mitigating any differences compared to your chain. You stated your dac is 2-3 V. I believe the X26Pro is 5. Maybe you hear bigger changes with lower voltage to begin with or maybe it's your headphone impedance. I don't know.


----------



## TheR0v3r

EMINENT said:


> Maybe something in my setup is mitigating any differences compared to your chain. You stated your dac is 2-3 V. I believe the X26Pro is 5. Maybe you hear bigger changes with lower voltage to begin with or maybe it's your headphone impedance. I don't know.


Just a short bakground to where my system is today (apart from choice of gear). I’ve worked really hard to figure out how stop noise from entering the system, mainly by ”eliminating” network noise.  

They key for me to start hearing differences (such as voltages) has been by pulling back on upscaling, eq etc. KISS has been my motto. Right now I dont use any upscaling and at most use +/4 db when working with eq in order to get a ”flat” frequency response. It’s not that upscaling or eq is bad (not at all) it just added to much variables for me to handle. This has enabled me to work with fewer variables to optimize my system and I’ve been able to hear nuances that was previously lost on me


----------



## damascato

I have just received my Oor and Hypsos. Using them with a Holo May Dac and with Susvara. I was previously using an iCan Pro Signature, still on my desk.

The Ferrum is connected to the may via single ended RCA (XRL still connected to the iCAN).

I noticed that the oor, even at high gaing, needs to be like at 1-2pm to produce satisfactory volume with the Susvara. The iCAN has way more headroom.

How can it be? Is it because of the single ended connection to the May???


----------



## Roasty

damascato said:


> I have just received my Oor and Hypsos. Using them with a Holo May Dac and with Susvara. I was previously using an iCan Pro Signature, still on my desk.
> 
> The Ferrum is connected to the may via single ended RCA (XRL still connected to the iCAN).
> 
> ...



yes. use the XLR from the May into the Oor.


----------



## krude

damascato said:


> I have just received my Oor and Hypsos. Using them with a Holo May Dac and with Susvara. I was previously using an iCan Pro Signature, still on my desk.
> 
> The Ferrum is connected to the may via single ended RCA (XRL still connected to the iCAN).
> 
> ...


Se is rougly half the voltage of ballanced. You should be able to get Susvara as loud as you want on 0 gain using ballanced.

Also Se and ballanced usually sound slightly differently. Se works for me with tube amps that can't handle hot intput. 

Let us know how's your expereience against iCan 🙌


----------



## damascato

Time to get serious.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Jun 15, 2022)

damascato said:


> Time to get serious.





You will be impress with what the Ferrum Stack can do. Especially together with the May Stack. Don't be decepted by the size of the amp. The Ferrum 's performance is truely "Out Side of the Box".

Btw, let the OOR warm up to reach its fullest and punchy bass. We typically have a secret sweet spot magical voltage for the Susvara, "wink". 

But I will let you play around with it during your honey moon period, before introducing you to the Hypsos black magic.


----------



## Tom75

Gavin C4 said:


> You will be impress with what the Ferrum Stack can do. Especially together with the May Stack. Don't be decepted by the size of the amp. The Ferrum 's performance is truely "Out Side of the Box".
> 
> Btw, let the OOR warm up to reach its fullest and punchy bass. We typically have a secret sweet spot magical voltage for the Susvara, "wink".
> 
> But I will let you play around with it during your honey moon period, before introducing you to the Hypsos black magic.


So cool.
I also have Ferrum, Holo and Accuphase (E460) here.. good taste  👌


----------



## krude

Tom75 said:


> So cool.
> I also have Ferrum, Holo and Accuphase (E460) here.. good taste  👌


@Gavin C4 did you guys try to run e480 with Susvara and TC? I was seriously thinking about it but not sure if it would be an upgeade from Ferrum and I don't run speakers 🤷


----------



## Gavin C4

krude said:


> @Gavin C4 did you guys try to run e480 with Susvara and TC? I was seriously thinking about it but not sure if it would be an upgeade from Ferrum and I don't run speakers 🤷


You dare to ask this question... 

Wallet weeping


----------



## TheR0v3r

Has anyone compared the se vs balanced headphone output? Any differences? I’m having a hard time comparing because of very different cables…


----------



## krude

Gavin C4 said:


> You dare to ask this question...
> 
> Wallet weeping


I do 🙈😂🤠 some comprehensive impressions against Ferrum stack using both Susvara and TC would be amazing


----------



## Tom75

krude said:


> I do 🙈😂🤠 some comprehensive impressions against Ferrum stack using both Susvara and TC would be amazing


I only use the E460 for my B&W 802N.


----------



## TheR0v3r (Jun 16, 2022)

TheR0v3r said:


> I’m using the ZMF Verité Open with Verité pads. The Hypsos is set at an output voltage of 22V and running OOR on low gain. Lowering the voltage gave me better more ”air” (better soundstage width and depth) and lowering the gain gave me a ”slower” headphone with less aggressive dynamics. I’ll now revisit some other pads (Uni and BE2) and see what gives when adjusting gain
> 
> I love, love, love the Susvara and think the Ferrum OOR + Hypsos would be the perfect amplication for it. I’m guessing that 28-30V with high gain would be most excellent.


Instead of pads I revisited headphone cables. My main cable is silver with a 6.3mm connector from Lavricables and my other cables are two copper cables from ZMF, one ofc-copper with 6.3mm connector and one stock cable with xlr connector. I compared these with Hypsos at an output voltage of 22V.

With the silver cable I preferred running the OOR on low gain. At first I thought that low gain gave me less aggressive dynamics (above) but after repeated listening I seem to be trading transient response for increased smoothness and improved timbre. On normal gain there’s a timbre issue noticeable especially with female voices (and that’s a no-go for me as I listen alot to artists like Self-Esteem, Nilufer Yanya and Yola).

 How do I get good transient response with great timbre? The stock cable with XLR is good, but not more. So I tried the ofc-cable that I haven’t used for many years (with my previous setup I used different pads and the Lavricable). That cable with normal gain works really well, very happy. Excellent timbre combined with good transient response, yeah!

It’s fantastic to be able to play with voltage AND gain. What a great stack and such a great learning experience!


----------



## vthee

Just set up my Oor and Hypsos stack with the Denafrips Ares 2... sounds great... anyone play with the voltage to see what sounds good?


----------



## EMINENT

vthee said:


> Just set up my Oor and Hypsos stack with the Denafrips Ares 2... sounds great... anyone play with the voltage to see what sounds good?




Yes. No difference. YMMV.


----------



## TheR0v3r

EMINENT said:


> Yes. No difference. YMMV.





vthee said:


> Just set up my Oor and Hypsos stack with the Denafrips Ares 2... sounds great... anyone play with the voltage to see what sounds good?


Agreed, I don’t think changing output voltage can make any difference when OOR is used as a preamp. You could benefit from adjusting gain.


----------



## ChJL

Gavin C4 said:


> You will be impress with what the Ferrum Stack can do. Especially together with the May Stack. Don't be decepted by the size of the amp. The Ferrum 's performance is truely "Out Side of the Box".
> 
> Btw, let the OOR warm up to reach its fullest and punchy bass. We typically have a secret sweet spot magical voltage for the Susvara, "wink".
> 
> But I will let you play around with it during your honey moon period, before introducing you to the Hypsos black magic.


What do you mean with letting the Oor warm up? After only a few minutes mine is, I would say, pretty hot! How much time do you suggest at regular room temperature?


----------



## Tom75

ChJL said:


> What do you mean with letting the Oor warm up? After only a few minutes mine is, I would say, pretty hot! How much time do you suggest at regular room temperature?


And which silver feet do you use?


----------



## ChJL

IanB52 said:


> I just put one of the SR Purple fuses in my Hypsos and it sounds great, though usually takes many hours to settle.
> 
> When I got the Oor+Hypsos I felt that it was already so transparent that my usual SR fuses might not accomplish much. Over the weekend a found a used 2 amp orange fuse I had laying around, and it was actually a nice improvement in depth and clarity.
> 
> Then the purple came today and really surprised by how different it sounds compared to the orange. In many ways it is better than orange, more spacious, and stronger bass, but also seems quite colorful. *Almost* like adding a tube input stage. There seems to be a "glow" to the sound now. Very interesting, esp on such a ridiculously transparent amp.


Please let me know which size I would have to get. Is changing it actually as easy as opening the compartment? Can it be done from the outside? Do you have experience with "Hifi-Tuning" (Germany) fuses? Thanks!


----------



## Gavin C4 (Jun 17, 2022)

ChJL said:


> What do you mean with letting the Oor warm up? After only a few minutes mine is, I would say, pretty hot! How much time do you suggest at regular room temperature?



I leave mine turn on the entire day. Let it warm up for at least an hour or so, after it is warm, it will have a fuller and thicker bass. Much better texture.


----------



## IanB52 (Jun 18, 2022)

ChJL said:


> Please let me know which size I would have to get. Is changing it actually as easy as opening the compartment? Can it be done from the outside? Do you have experience with "Hifi-Tuning" (Germany) fuses? Thanks!


It's fairly easy to change the fuse on the Hypsos as the compartment is on the outside, next to the AC input. It is a 2 Amp 5x20mm 250v. It does help to have a tiny flathead screwdriver to pop the fuse case out, and FYI the case is pretty snug so it usually chews up the label of aftermarket fuses, but it doesn't cause any operational or SQ problems.

I haven't used HiFi Tuning. I did try a more expensive QSA fuse, as well as SR Orange and Purple. I like Purple the best, but it is very colored, bass and midrange heavy, with dense and colorful tonality. The Orange is more scooped and fast, but not as good overall. QSA fuses can be more resolving, but bright, less textured, and less full bodied. I wish there was a fuse that had the tonal balance of the Orange, resolution of the QSA Red, but vibrancy and musicality of the Purple. Maybe they exist, but I haven't tried everything.


----------



## Roasty

reading the past few pages, I'm also in the camp that changing the voltage on the Hypsos doesn't change the sound I'm hearing on the Oor. are we in the minority here? have tried small increments, then big increments in voltage, but can't seem to hear any change.


----------



## IanB52

Roasty said:


> reading the past few pages, I'm also in the camp that changing the voltage on the Hypsos doesn't change the sound I'm hearing on the Oor. are we in the minority here? have tried small increments, then big increments in voltage, but can't seem to hear any change.


It definitely works for me, though it is subtle. The thing is, going above 24v adds some fatigue for me, so I leave it at default.


----------



## TheFrator

I picked up an Oor last week to pair with my LCD-5 and so far it has been a definite step up over the Soloist 3XP I was using before it. If I had to put a number on it, I'd say about 15% improvement. Everything sounds snappier and more dynamic, especially the bass. Treble also seems airier which gives slightly more space between instruments. This is with the standard power supply the Oor came with.

I used to be in the camp of amps not making a difference but the Soloist showed me with planars that the more power the better. And the Oor confirms that point. How much better is hard to gauge. And it might even be placebo. But my ears are very much enjoying what the Oor is doing.


----------



## EMINENT

TheFrator said:


> I picked up an Oor last week to pair with my LCD-5 and so far it has been a definite step up over the Soloist 3XP I was using before it. If I had to put a number on it, I'd say about 15% improvement. Everything sounds snappier and more dynamic, especially the bass. Treble also seems airier which gives slightly more space between instruments. This is with the standard power supply the Oor came with.
> 
> I used to be in the camp of amps not making a difference but the Soloist showed me with planars that the more power the better. And the Oor confirms that point. How much better is hard to gauge. And it might even be placebo. But my ears are very much enjoying what the Oor is doing.



Congrats!

That is definitely quite an improvement if you can put a number like that on it.


----------



## krude (Jun 18, 2022)

TheFrator said:


> I picked up an Oor last week to pair with my LCD-5 and so far it has been a definite step up over the Soloist 3XP I was using before it. If I had to put a number on it, I'd say about 15% improvement. Everything sounds snappier and more dynamic, especially the bass. Treble also seems airier which gives slightly more space between instruments. This is with the standard power supply the Oor came with.
> 
> I used to be in the camp of amps not making a difference but the Soloist showed me with planars that the more power the better. And the Oor confirms that point. How much better is hard to gauge. And it might even be placebo. But my ears are very much enjoying what the Oor is doing.


Wait till you run it with a proper power supply. Night and day difference. I thought standard psu sounded  compared to Hypsos.

Amps make a huge difference, every company has their own house sound on top of the perfprmance differences.

I was in the camp once that cables and power doesn't make a difference. Boy was I wrong.


----------



## SLC1966

sonicsailor said:


> Thanks for that feedback. I’ve been testing with different cables and various levels of humidity and am certain a static discharge is triggering the Oor to drop the signal and deliver only continuous static, sometimes only in one channel, very odd.
> The upside, if you can call it that, is that with my previous amp the static discharge was, painfully, to my ears; that amp was not grounded and the signal was never lost. So the grounding on the Oor makes the difference as the discharge is through the amp and not through my noggin.
> Over the long run, have you found it a significant inconvenience?


The static discharge rarely happens since I changed my routine.  I get settled and then plug the cable into the OOR or put my HPs on last.  When I need to move around I just take the HPs off first and then move around or unplug the HPs and do what I need to do and then plug them in or put them back on when I am settled.  I guess my days of scooting around the couch/chair with HPs on are done


----------



## TheFrator

krude said:


> Wait till you run it with a proper power supply. Night and day difference. I thought standard psu sounded  compared to Hypsos.
> 
> Amps make a huge difference, every company has their own house sound on top of the perfprmance differences.
> 
> I was in the camp once that cables and power doesn't make a difference. Boy was I wrong.


I like to space out my upgrades and the Hypsos is next on the list


----------



## Gavin C4

Roasty said:


> reading the past few pages, I'm also in the camp that changing the voltage on the Hypsos doesn't change the sound I'm hearing on the Oor. are we in the minority here? have tried small increments, then big increments in voltage, but can't seem to hear any change.



It might be related to the pairing, for example if you are using a warm source such as the Holo May that has lots of warmth and texture and very good sense of surounding atmosphere, the characteristic of the up front source may mask the change when changing the voltage on OOR. Or maybe it might be just the headphones not sensitive to the change as it is only a very minor difference. 

Trust your ears, you have really high end summit fi gear, if it hear no difference on your system then there is no reason to continously fiddle with it. Maybe play around with the function once a while when the ich comes up.


----------



## Gavin C4

TheFrator said:


> I picked up an Oor last week to pair with my LCD-5 and so far it has been a definite step up over the Soloist 3XP I was using before it. If I had to put a number on it, I'd say about 15% improvement. Everything sounds snappier and more dynamic, especially the bass. Treble also seems airier which gives slightly more space between instruments. This is with the standard power supply the Oor came with.
> 
> I used to be in the camp of amps not making a difference but the Soloist showed me with planars that the more power the better. And the Oor confirms that point. How much better is hard to gauge. And it might even be placebo. But my ears are very much enjoying what the Oor is doing.


 
Gradually upgrade our chain is a good method to see if it improves or if the gear actually have an impact or changed the sound. You always need some time to enjoy and get familiar with the characteristic of your gear and learn what you are listening for during intensive gear comparision. Though at this level, you are chaising for last 5-10% improvements or changes.

Though I can confirm the Hysos makes a huge difference. You dont need to rush for the Hypsos upgrade immediately. Get more listening time on your OOR with power brick, get faimilar with all your music. 

Then when you really pull the trigger on the Hypsos Upgrade in the future, you will have another amazing Wow moment.


----------



## SlothRock

Just returned from a vacation yesterday, have COVID, my second vacation now starts with the OOR+Hypsos and Spring 3 KTE 😂. Even while on vacation a piece of me missed this damn setup. Glad to be back at it


----------



## Gavin C4

SlothRock said:


> Just returned from a vacation yesterday, have COVID, my second vacation now starts with the OOR+Hypsos and Spring 3 KTE 😂. Even while on vacation a piece of me missed this damn setup. Glad to be back at it



The bass slam on the Hypsos OOR stack is very addictive. I always goes back to the OOR when other amp doesnt make my feet tap when I am listening to music with great rhythm.


----------



## TheR0v3r

IanB52 said:


> It definitely works for me, though it is subtle. The thing is, going above 24v adds some fatigue for me, so I leave it at default.


Agree, it’s subtle. I’m also trying to explain (to myself) what I’m hearing, so apologies for being confusing. I’ll never be a reviewer… In the end what (I think) I’m hearing is similar to adjusting the picture on the TV. 

The gain is ”backlight” and the output voltage is ”brightness & contrast”. With my ZMF’s low gain was too little light (with copper cable) and they sounded flat and dim, but with high gain they became a strain to listen to (”hyperactive”!) and normal gain was just right. When lowering the output voltage from 24v to 22v individual sounds became a more distinct, nothing lost in darkness and nothing washed out - the right balance of light and shade.


----------



## krude

TheR0v3r said:


> Agree, it’s subtle. I’m also trying to explain (to myself) what I’m hearing, so apologies for being confusing. I’ll never be a reviewer… In the end what (I think) I’m hearing is similar to adjusting the picture on the TV.
> 
> The gain is ”backlight” and the output voltage is ”brightness & contrast”. With my ZMF’s low gain was too little light (with copper cable) and they sounded flat and dim, but with high gain they became a strain to listen to (”hyperactive”!) and normal gain was just right. When lowering the output voltage from 24v to 22v individual sounds became a more distinct, nothing lost in darkness and nothing washed out - the right balance of light and shade.


I would agree with this description. Very nice metaphore. Maybe you should be a reviewer


----------



## TheFrator

Gavin C4 said:


> Though I can confirm the Hysos makes a huge difference. You dont need to rush for the Hypsos upgrade immediately. Get more listening time on your OOR with power brick, get faimilar with all your music.
> 
> Then when you really pull the trigger on the Hypsos Upgrade in the future, you will have another amazing Wow moment.


Yup this is exactly why I do it. Don't want to rush the hedonic treadmill too much 

Hopefully the Hypsos is more of an improvement to the Oor than the supercharger was to my Soloist 3XP.


----------



## krude

Just made a profound discovery : May L2 -> Hypsos + Oor -> Cayin HA6a -> Susvara ... is surprisingly better than all of it's parts.

So I tried to use HA6a as a tube pre using a pentacon -> 2 x xlr connector, with rather poor results. The output was a lose lose situation to my ears. I wasn't getting the bombastic tube sound in full glory, and I was muddying the otherwise pristine presentation of the Ferrum stack (tried it with Soloist GT before with similar results).

And just for kicks I tried to setup HA6a more as a power amp with volume wide open and run Ferrum as a pre and ... oh wow, the situation is the exact opposite of what I would expect. I get better volume / power from HA6a, Oors now trademark midrange clarity boost, still keeping the bombastic tube sound tho, and an extra kick down low. I don't understand what is happening to be honest bc I've introduced a component and interconnects, so the result should be less (but possibly more fun), but the output is CLEARLY superior to just running HA6a as a normal amp. Something else is at play, maybe impedance match is superior or some other synergy has happened. 

I was going to go after Felks Envy or WA33 to upgrade my HA6a, but now it's hard to imagine I could get a much better final result. 

 idk 🤷‍♂️ well ... I guess I'll just enjoy lol


----------



## TheR0v3r

krude said:


> Just made a profound discovery : May L2 -> Hypsos + Oor -> Cayin HA6a -> Susvara ... is surprisingly better than all of it's parts.
> 
> So I tried to use HA6a as a tube pre using a pentacon -> 2 x xlr connector, with rather poor results. The output was a lose lose situation to my ears. I wasn't getting the bombastic tube sound in full glory, and I was muddying the otherwise pristine presentation of the Ferrum stack (tried it with Soloist GT before with similar results).
> 
> ...


Nice and very interesting! With that setup can you still use OOR as a headphone amp or do you first have to disconnect the output?


----------



## krude

TheR0v3r said:


> Nice and very interesting! With that setup can you still use OOR as a headphone amp or do you first have to disconnect the output?


I can still use the HP amp section of the Oor as well


----------



## Tom75

TheR0v3r said:


> Nice and very interesting! With that setup can you still use OOR as a headphone amp or do you first have to disconnect the output?


And what about the hypsos in this game?


----------



## krude

Tom75 said:


> And what about the hypsos in this game?


Hypsos is powering Oor.


----------



## Tom75

krude said:


> Hypsos is powering Oor.


Just to get the set up right.
The DAC goes into the  Oor or the iHA6?
Then the Oor via RCA or XLR into the iHA6 and the HP are connected where?


----------



## krude

Tom75 said:


> Just to get the set up right.
> The DAC goes into the  Oor or the iHA6?
> Then the Oor via RCA or XLR into the iHA6 and the HP are connected where?


May L2 -> (xlr) -> Oor + Hypsos -> (xlr) -> Cayin HA6a (the bulky tube amp) -> (balanced 4 pin pure silver cable) -> Susvara 

No iHA6 in the chain 🤫


----------



## TheR0v3r

krude said:


> Hypsos is powering Oor.


I use to have a tube preamp but grew tired of having to start the preamp everytime I wanted to listen to headphones. You’re setup means that tube amplification becomes an option not a necessity, very nice. 

PS. I imagine that the OOR works very well as a preamp.


----------



## Tom75

krude said:


> May L2 -> (xlr) -> Oor + Hypsos -> (xlr) -> Cayin HA6a (the bulky tube amp) -> (balanced 4 pin pure silver cable) -> Susvara
> 
> No iHA6 in the chain 🤫


Cool. Thanks.  And my apologies for my confusion with the "HAs"


----------



## Gavin C4

Does the Cayin HA 6a have a power amp mode for the outputs ? Or you simply turn the volume way up? I wonder why whould it sound better than only using the Cayin HA 6a for headphone amp duty? Does it mean the OOR has a better volume nob used as a preamp than the volume nob on the Cayin?


----------



## krude

Gavin C4 said:


> Does the Cayin HA 6a have a power amp mode for the outputs ? Or you simply turn the volume way up? I wonder why whould it sound better than only using the Cayin HA 6a for headphone amp duty? Does it mean the OOR has a better volume nob used as a preamp than the volume nob on the Cayin?


No power amp mode. I think this has to be impedance, voltage, gain staging in HA6a that benefits from being set to high volume and getting lower level signal. Makes no sense right? 🤔😂 HA6a is a strange beast.


----------



## bluenight

Anyone used Ferrum + Hypsos with Hugo TT2 as Dac? And compared if Ferrum combo adds any amplification value compared to TT2 internal amp. 

Or at least seen any comments about it.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Jun 20, 2022)

bluenight said:


> Anyone used Ferrum + Hypsos with Hugo TT2 as Dac? And compared if Ferrum combo adds any amplification value compared to TT2 internal amp.
> 
> Or at least seen any comments about it.


If you are using planar headphones, I would see a very huge leep in performance. If you are using easy to drive dynamic, you might get away with it and have less things to fiddle. Including another pair of XLR connect and power cords. You could use the fund to add a mscaler instead

But the OOR would obivoisly gives a better bass punch attack slam compare to a hugo tt. No matter how you view it, Hypsos oor is still. A full sized dedicated powerfull ampifier.


----------



## TheR0v3r

Gavin C4 said:


> If you are using planar headphones, I would see a very huge leep in performance. If you are using easy to drive dynamic, you might get away with it and have less things to fiddle. Including another pair of XLR connect and power cords. You could use the fund to add a mscaler instead
> 
> But the OOR would obivoisly gives a better bass punch attack slam compare to a hugo tt. No matter how you view it, Hypsos oor is still. A fulk sized dedicated powerfull ampifier.


Will a world class headphone amp add value to the TT2, a world class dac? Yes it will !  

The OOR + Hypsos is by far the best headphone amplification solution I’ve owned (and the least expensive!). If you have the opportunity/ability to buy it just do it and figure out the rest later.


----------



## rsbrsvp

Is the oor hypsos a better match with neutral dac or a tonally colored dac?


----------



## damascato

rsbrsvp said:


> Is the oor hypsos a better match with neutral dac or a tonally colored dac?


With a Holo May 😁


----------



## rsbrsvp

holo is somewhat tonally full- although not overly like a tube source.  Is this correct?


----------



## damascato

rsbrsvp said:


> holo is somewhat tonally full- although not overly like a tube source.  Is this correct?


I'd say you're correct.


----------



## rsbrsvp

Probably adding tubes in the signal with the oor hypsos would be to much tonal density.  Would you agree?


----------



## 21qz

Hello all, i have a ferrum oor + hypnosis. Running a laptop to dac>dac to amp>amp to headphones. Sounds like all i need is a m to f xlr x2. Any suggestions on what xlr cables to get? I may also add a streamer to the chain eventually, so how would that connect in this stack? As in what cable will i need to run it in the chain and in what order? from laptop to headphones.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Jun 21, 2022)

21qz said:


> Hello all, i have a ferrum oor + hypnosis. Running a laptop to dac>dac to amp>amp to headphones. Sounds like all i need is a m to f xlr x2. Any suggestions on what xlr cables to get? I may also add a streamer to the chain eventually, so how would that connect in this stack? As in what cable will i need to run it in the chain and in what order? from laptop to headphones.



The XLR cables really depends on your budget. To start, I would suggest you to get some studio quality XLR interconnect from brands like Belden or furutech. They are neutral in signature, reliable, well built and low cost. They would not mask the signature of the Holo may or Ferrum OOR. You would like a 1.5 m length for better usage and cable routing.

You would also need power cords as well, you can also get it from Belden and Furutech.


----------



## smile raidcall

Really tempted to get the Ferrum Stacks to pair with Susvara. Would the Eeco be a simpler solution or it is better off getting a stand alone DAC and amp For the Susvara.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

smile raidcall said:


> Really tempted to get the Ferrum Stacks to pair with Susvara. Would the Eeco be a simpler solution or it is better off getting a stand alone DAC and amp For the Susvara.


You should get a stand alone DAC.


----------



## krude (Jun 21, 2022)

smile raidcall said:


> Really tempted to get the Ferrum Stacks to pair with Susvara. Would the Eeco be a simpler solution or it is better off getting a stand alone DAC and amp For the Susvara.


You are getting one of the best headphones on the planet. Susvara requires building a chain around it. Pick totl components to suit your taste to avoid disappointment.

Also ... do you like bass? 😅


----------



## Tom75

smile raidcall said:


> Really tempted to get the Ferrum Stacks to pair with Susvara. Would the Eeco be a simpler solution or it is better off getting a stand alone DAC and amp For the Susvara.


I tried the Erco, but at the end, I decided to stay with my Holo Spring3 KTE


----------



## rsbrsvp

krude said:


> Just made a profound discovery : May L2 -> Hypsos + Oor -> Cayin HA6a -> Susvara ... is surprisingly better than all of it's parts.
> 
> So I tried to use HA6a as a tube pre using a pentacon -> 2 x xlr connector, with rather poor results. The output was a lose lose situation to my ears. I wasn't getting the bombastic tube sound in full glory, and I was muddying the otherwise pristine presentation of the Ferrum stack (tried it with Soloist GT before with similar results).
> 
> ...


I am shocked this does not sound terrible.  There are so so many parts in the chain- that the possibilities of conflicts and conflicting colorations in enormous.  I'm not claiming you are making this up- I'm just in shock.


----------



## krude

rsbrsvp said:


> I am shocked this does not sound terrible.  There are so so many parts in the chain- that the possibilities of conflicts and conflicting colorations in enormous.  I'm not claiming you are making this up- I'm just in shock.


Yes, I thought it will sound terrible as well 😂


----------



## rsbrsvp

the oor and the HA6 in the same chain strikes me as overly colored.     I guess I'm wrong.


----------



## krude

rsbrsvp said:


> the oor and the HA6 in the same chain strikes me as overly colored.     I guess I'm wrong.


Overly coloured is subjective. For me HA6a has a lot of SS characteristics apart from the tubeyness. Oor has more of the midrange sweetness you usually expect from tubes, so it kind of fills a gap in the HA6a signature. Also HA6a is very strange in the way that gain and volume works, it is dialed in for 4v max and my May gives out 5.8v. Also Oor has superb midrange clarity, so it's not muddying up the sound.

That's my explanation 🙈😂


----------



## rsbrsvp

great explanation....


----------



## TheR0v3r

rsbrsvp said:


> Probably adding tubes in the signal with the oor hypsos would be to much tonal density.  Would you agree?


It would depend on the tube amp. Some add tonal richness, but some are just tonaly correct.


----------



## damascato

chargedcapacitor said:


> You should get a stand alone DAC.


If you need an all in one dac amp, the best way to go for Susvara is Burson Conductor GT.


----------



## tawmizzzz

SlothRock said:


> Just returned from a vacation yesterday, have COVID, my second vacation now starts with the OOR+Hypsos and Spring 3 KTE 😂. Even while on vacation a piece of me missed this damn setup. Glad to be back at it


Lol exactly how my international trip ended up as well. Covid, isolating back at home, with Ferrum stack + Spring 3. Enjoy!


----------



## Gavin C4 (Jun 21, 2022)

tawmizzzz said:


> Lol exactly how my international trip ended up as well. Covid, isolating back at home, with Ferrum stack + Spring 3. Enjoy!


The Holo DACs really have a good synergy with Ferrum OOR. The R2R analogue signature of the Holo DACs really thicken up the entire atmosphere, adding the OOR 's sweet mids has made the combinarion almost tube like presentation. But it still maintains's Solid States's speed, bass punch characteriatic.


----------



## smile raidcall

Looks like many have found Success with the Susvara pairing with the OOR. But are there any short fall for the OOR as compared to other similar priced amps ? Dose other amps have region that does better than the OOR ?


----------



## damascato

smile raidcall said:


> Looks like many have found Success with the Susvara pairing with the OOR. But are there any short fall for the OOR as compared to other similar priced amps ? Dose other amps have region that does better than the OOR ?


Compared to an ican pro signature absolutely not. No weak points (I have both).

I have a conductor from incoming in the next few days and I’ll be able to report on that one too


----------



## smile raidcall

damascato said:


> Compared to an ican pro signature absolutely not. No weak points (I have both).
> 
> I have a conductor from incoming in the next few days and I’ll be able to report on that one too


Thanks really appreciate your comparison.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

smile raidcall said:


> Looks like many have found Success with the Susvara pairing with the OOR. But are there any short fall for the OOR as compared to other similar priced amps ? Dose other amps have region that does better than the OOR ?


I cannot confirm, but many have stated that the AHB2, which is at a similar price, has a better spacial/holographic presentation and is more neutral.


----------



## Tom75

Hi guys,
Any experiences with Ferrum, Holo Spring3 KTE and Auralic Aries G1.
Not sure, whether it's worth to go for a G1..


----------



## bluenight

Anyone connect oor + hypsos with 
DC JACK powering cord 2.5?​https://ferrum.audio/product/dc-jack-powering-cord-2-5/

Instead off FPL Ferrum Power link cable https://ferrum.audio/product/ferrum-power-link-dc-power-cord/

The online shop here in my country offer i think the 2,5mm cable when i buy oor+ hypsos. FPL cable sounds slightly better according to ferrum. 

The answer i got when emailing them. 
"Thank you for contacting us.

If you would buy Hypsos+OOR combo directly from us you would get FPL cable  - this is our standard procedure. However when dealers ordering product from us we did not force them to purchase any specific cables so it is possible you have been offered this combo with 2.5mm DC cable. The FPL would be slightly better with this combo but 2.5mm is still sufficient enough to deliver good quality power."

Of course one would like to have the best the different cables are at the same price also.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Jun 22, 2022)

bluenight said:


> Anyone connect oor + hypsos with
> DC JACK powering cord 2.5?​https://ferrum.audio/product/dc-jack-powering-cord-2-5/
> 
> Instead off FPL Ferrum Power link cable https://ferrum.audio/product/ferrum-power-link-dc-power-cord/
> ...


As Ferrum themselves answered FPL cable sounds slightly better, I don’t see any benefit or reason in using 2.5 DC cord to power the OOR. I have a second Hypsos with DC 2.5 cable used to power my Roon Nucleus and a third Hypsos with a DC Lemo cable to power my Nordost Qnet. I don’t see why I should use 2.5 to power OOR, why would you want to do that?

While there are guys few pages ago saying DC cables makes no difference, I don’t really see any benefit in switching the type of termination. Just follow Ferrum’s stock configuration and you will get the ideal house tuning for the OOR with the best performance.


----------



## bluenight

Gavin C4 said:


> I don’t see why I should use 2.5 to power OOR, why would you want to do that?


I dont want to do that. Its just the shop i want to order from (not from official website) offer only the 2,5mm cable. Of course i want the FPL 4 pin on both sides when they say its slightly better. Also they are willing to accept trade in with my Lake People RS 02 and THX 789 amp. That's why i would prefer shopping from the unofficial online store in my country. 

Oh and btw this amp have good synergy with HD800S?


----------



## chargedcapacitor

bluenight said:


> I dont want to do that. Its just the shop i want to order from (not from official website) offer only the 2,5mm cable. Of course i want the FPL 4 pin on both sides when they say its slightly better. Also they are willing to accept trade in with my Lake People RS 02 and THX 789 amp. That's why i would prefer shopping from the unofficial online store in my country.
> 
> Oh and btw this amp have good synergy with HD800S?


Yes, I like it very much with my hd800


----------



## Gavin C4

bluenight said:


> I dont want to do that. Its just the shop i want to order from (not from official website) offer only the 2,5mm cable. Of course i want the FPL 4 pin on both sides when they say its slightly better. Also they are willing to accept trade in with my Lake People RS 02 and THX 789 amp. That's why i would prefer shopping from the unofficial online store in my country.
> 
> Oh and btw this amp have good synergy with HD800S?



I think you can order the FPL cable directly from Ferrum's website, that might be the only solution.


----------



## duranxv

Tom75 said:


> Hi guys,
> Any experiences with Ferrum, Holo Spring3 KTE and Auralic Aries G1.
> Not sure, whether it's worth to go for a G1..



Spring 3 KTE and Ferrum stack are a great combo


----------



## atya35mm

I’m currently still waiting on my powerlink cable but have the 2.5mm cable while waiting. For those using the 2.5mm, do you say yes in the hypsos unit when setting up the Oor and it asks whether you’re using powerlink? I ended up selecting no and have to do a manual configuration 😒


----------



## Gavin C4

atya35mm said:


> I’m currently still waiting on my powerlink cable but have the 2.5mm cable while waiting. For those using the 2.5mm, do you say yes in the hypsos unit when setting up the Oor and it asks whether you’re using powerlink? I ended up selecting no and have to do a manual configuration 😒


If you select yes, it will be on OOR profile and allows you to tune the voltage from 20v up to 30v to get a change in sound signature. Though some says there are audiable difference, some says no audible difference. Really depends on your gear. YMMV


----------



## gonzfi

Haa anyone paired the ferrum stack with a Beyer T1 gen2 and had positive results?


----------



## bluenight

I got the right FPL cable in the end and have ordered it now. The highest end amp I have heard so far is the Sennhesiser HDV 820. I hope it can be better. 

This is an amp that you csn be happy with for 5-10 years or end game if you want? 

Any weaknesses in oor+hypsos?


----------



## Gavin C4

Tom75 said:


> Hi guys,
> Any experiences with Ferrum, Holo Spring3 KTE and Auralic Aries G1.
> Not sure, whether it's worth to go for a G1..







Have not used the G1, but I have used the Lumin streamer with Holo May. It is control, intergration and remot app is very smooth and includes its own app. If you want you can also use Roon too. I bet the G1 would function just as well as a streamer.



bluenight said:


> I got the right FPL cable in the end and have ordered it now. The highest end amp I have heard so far is the Sennhesiser HDV 820. I hope it can be better.
> 
> This is an amp that you csn be happy with for 5-10 years or end game if you want?
> 
> Any weaknesses in oor+hypsos?



It does not gives you the glory of tubes.

OOR is extremely honest in the presentation, it does not expand the sound stage like a WA 33. What your source feeds it, nothing is altered. OOR would not aritifcally widen the stage. And thats why I wish it could have a wider stage. But you can not wish a OOR can beat a WA33. Electronics doesnt works that way.


----------



## Tom75

Gavin C4 said:


> Have not used the G1, but I have used the Lumin streamer with Holo May. It is control, intergration and remot app is very smooth and includes its own app. If you want you can also use Roon too. I bet the G1 would function just as well as a streamer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks.  Which Lumin is it?


----------



## Gavin C4

Tom75 said:


> Thanks.  Which Lumin is it?


U1 mini


----------



## chargedcapacitor

Gavin C4 said:


> Have not used the G1, but I have used the Lumin streamer with Holo May. It is control, intergration and remot app is very smooth and includes its own app. If you want you can also use Roon too. I bet the G1 would function just as well as a streamer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Electronics do work that way; there is no physical limitation to why any electronic device cannot sound like a million bucks and cost $1000. Nothing is preventing a genius circuit designer from building an amazing board and putting it in a decent case and selling it at cost. The limitation being the genius


----------



## Gavin C4

chargedcapacitor said:


> Electronics do work that way; there is no physical limitation to why any electronic device cannot sound like a million bucks and cost $1000. Nothing is preventing a genius circuit designer from building an amazing board and putting it in a decent case and selling it at cost. The limitation being the genius



Then at least the OOR have not achieve it yet.


----------



## chesebert

chargedcapacitor said:


> Electronics do work that way; there is no physical limitation to why any electronic device cannot sound like a million bucks and cost $1000. Nothing is preventing a genius circuit designer from building an amazing board and putting it in a decent case and selling it at cost. The limitation being the genius


Limitation being that person hates money 😉


----------



## bluenight

Gavin C4 said:


> U1 mini


U2 mini is out now. With better uppsampling


----------



## bluenight

Gavin C4 said:


> What your source feeds it, nothing is altered. OOR would not aritifcally widen the stage. And thats why I wish it could have a wider stage.


Some say HD800S allready got an artificial large soundstage. Its my main HP. So i dont think it will be lacking in that department.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Jun 23, 2022)

bluenight said:


> U2 mini is out now. With better uppsampling


Yea, but I use dCS upsampler now. So I don’t really use the Lumin or need it in anyway. But the U1 works fine if someone wants streaming on a budget and want some decent gear.


----------



## Gavin C4

bluenight said:


> Some say HD800S allready got an artificial large soundstage. Its my main HP. So i dont think it will be lacking in that department.


Yup, the HD800s has one of the larges sound stage, on par with 1266. Only open head speakers have a wider stage than HD800s. I think you are good to go with the Ferrum Stack.


----------



## TheR0v3r

Quick note about tuning the output voltage.

I’ve been playing around with my Sennheiser HD650 (less) and Hifiman HE560 (more). I tried to find the optimal voltage for each headphone. With the HE560 it was easy, the sound becomes overly aggressive above 24-25V. I was using the first minutes of Michael Jacksons ”Beat It” and ”Bad”, IMHO it was obvious when the sound started to fall apart/become overly aggresive. Among other things the drums started to sound like pots and pans above 24-25V... (Just for reference, when I tried the Susvara I found no such issues and it sounded best at 28-30V.)

More difficult with the HD650. Not ”fast” enough?


----------



## tawmizzzz

bluenight said:


> Some say HD800S allready got an artificial large soundstage. Its my main HP. So i dont think it will be lacking in that department.


Your experience may differ depending on your sonic preferences, but I am not a huge fan of the Ferrum stack with the HD800s. The Senns sound noticeable more pleasant from a tube/hybrid like my Wells Audio Dragon L2, mainly in how beefs up the midrange, adds overall bloom, and balances out the peaky'ish high-end. But for planars like LCD5, Susvara, etc-Ferrum excellently delivers.


----------



## SlothRock

^^ I'd agree with the above. The Ferrum stack presents music so clearly and with such a neutral disposition that it will show the flaws each headphone has a lot easier. I prefer my ZMF's and preferred my HD800S on a tube amp every day. All great headphones, but tube amps just bring out their best characteristics and quiet down any perceived harshness there may be on top of it. Need to get a planar to go with my OOR/Hypsos stack. Every part of my being knows that it needs to be the Susvara but my wallet says otherwise 😂


----------



## ozziegurkan

The Sus sounds amazing with the OOR! With that said, I do have an incoming Bigger Ben Rev2 coming, so I will report back how it works with that beast as well.


----------



## Gavin C4

ozziegurkan said:


> The Sus sounds amazing with the OOR! With that said, I do have an incoming Bigger Ben Rev2 coming, so I will report back how it works with that beast as well.


You can’t go wrong when pairing any planar with OOR. Nothing will be held back, your Susvara must be performing in its peak.


----------



## Roasty

for all the love the ferrum stack gets with the Susvara, I have to say, I never really got into the groove with that pairing (when I had the susvara). felt the Ferrum did much better with the TC than then Sus. 

for those that haven't tried it, if the Susvara is your primary set of cans, you owe it to yourself to give it a go on a nice speaker amp setup. with the Ferrum, I had to use the stack on high gain, which I felt pushed the mids and highs forward before the low end when turning up the volume knob. whereas with a good speaker amp setup (integrated or pre/power combo), the music sounded much more balanced throughout the turns of the knob. 

Yea, the ferrum stack is a nice SS combo, probably the best SS amp I've owned, but I got more enjoyment out of the Susvara elsewhere. I guess what I'm saying is, for the price it is going for, my opinion is it is a *great* stack for any other hp I've used other than the Sus, and *very* *good *(but not great) with the Sus.

for the Sus, speaker amp > wa33 > ferrum stack. and for those curious, an example of a speaker amp that I liked and felt performed better than the stack with the Sus, and doesn't break the bank, is the Kinki exm1+. 

again, just my opinion (fwiw).


----------



## Gavin C4

Roasty said:


> for all the love the ferrum stack gets with the Susvara, I have to say, I never really got into the groove with that pairing (when I had the susvara). felt the Ferrum did much better with the TC than then Sus.
> 
> for those that haven't tried it, if the Susvara is your primary set of cans, you owe it to yourself to give it a go on a nice speaker amp setup. with the Ferrum, I had to use the stack on high gain, which I felt pushed the mids and highs forward before the low end when turning up the volume knob. whereas with a good speaker amp setup (integrated or pre/power combo), the music sounded much more balanced throughout the turns of the knob.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your honest opinion. I do agree with all the things you said. Though some people are not comfortable in using a speaker amp with headphones, therefore the OOR will be their best bet in the SS headphone amp category. I love the OOR pairing with all headphones that I own, but only the best of the best combination is listed in my signature.


----------



## 801evan

Roasty said:


> for all the love the ferrum stack gets with the Susvara, I have to say, I never really got into the groove with that pairing (when I had the susvara). felt the Ferrum did much better with the TC than then Sus.
> 
> for those that haven't tried it, if the Susvara is your primary set of cans, you owe it to yourself to give it a go on a nice speaker amp setup. with the Ferrum, I had to use the stack on high gain, which I felt pushed the mids and highs forward before the low end when turning up the volume knob. whereas with a good speaker amp setup (integrated or pre/power combo), the music sounded much more balanced throughout the turns of the knob.
> 
> ...


While I would agree there is some underperformance on the HypsOOR stack, if u still need high gain from a hot Holo Audio output, you need to refine the rest of the chain still. But it's not about power quantity...it's about lowering distortion so speaker amps aren't the solution either.


----------



## ozziegurkan

801evan said:


> While I would agree there is some underperformance on the HypsOOR stack, if u still need high gain from a hot Holo Audio output, you need to refine the rest of the chain still. But it's not about power quantity...it's about lowering distortion so speaker amps aren't the solution either.


I am going to try hooking up my Freya+ in Tube gain mode as a preamp to the OOR after my Yggy XLR outputs to see if that makes a difference. I will be able to control the gain going into OOR. That might do something interesting.


----------



## bluenight

tawmizzzz said:


> Your experience may differ depending on your sonic preferences, but I am not a huge fan of the Ferrum stack with the HD800s. The Senns sound noticeable more pleasant from a tube/hybrid like my Wells Audio Dragon L2, mainly in how beefs up the midrange, adds overall bloom, and balances out the peaky'ish high-end. But for planars like LCD5, Susvara, etc-Ferrum excellently delivers.





SlothRock said:


> ^^ I'd agree with the above. The Ferrum stack presents music so clearly and with such a neutral disposition that it will show the flaws each headphone has a lot easier. I prefer my ZMF's and preferred my HD800S on a tube amp every day. All great headphones, but tube amps just bring out their best characteristics and quiet down any perceived harshness there may be on top of it. Need to get a planar to go with my OOR/Hypsos stack. Every part of my being knows that it needs to be the Susvara but my wallet says otherwise 😂


What dac did you listen with or source with HD800S ? Spring 3 KTE? Maybe if a get a smooth dac like VMV D2 it can work better? 

I found this opinion when i searched for it at Head Fi. 


"The other thing is that I just returned a VMV D2 because it was too smoothed out and just meh for me. I'm really hoping the 005 isn't THAT level of smooth." 

But sound news review said it was a great Dac. And some online costumer review like it. Also tick my boxes with PREAMP and remote control.


----------



## krude

For me May into Ferrum is an epic pairing for HD800. Smooth, natural, keeps the character of HD800.

If you need high gain for Susvara (or anything else) with Ferrum chances are something is not quite right in your system.

At this level cabling, power, and simply usage of the pieces starts to become vital to achieve peak performance.


----------



## Dr_Hibbert (Jun 24, 2022)

krude said:


> For me May into Ferrum is an epic pairing for HD800. Smooth, natural, keeps the character of HD800.
> 
> If you need high gain for Susvara (or anything else) with Ferrum chances are something is not quite right in your system.
> 
> At this level cabling, power, and simply usage of the pieces starts to become vital to achieve peak performance.


agreed.  as i've said before, the ferrum stack requires some care and feeding.  the hypsos is a great power supply, but sound quality (especially soundstage, depth and detail) improves *a lot* when you feed it from a good line conditioner.  cables make a difference, too.  fwiw i use medium gain for a qutest, which outputs 3V max, and volume/dynamics are fine with my susvara.

as far as speaker amps go, i'd love to try one, but unfortunately most of them are huge - that kinki EX-M1 is nearly twice as large as the ferrum and weighs over 50 pounds. it's also pretty unwieldy using speaker taps for an HP setup, not to mention the risks of frying your drivers.  that said, i may bite the bullet and try one at some point, just out of curiosity.  it's just a hobby at the end of the day.


----------



## tawmizzzz

bluenight said:


> What dac did you listen with or source with HD800S ? Spring 3 KTE? Maybe if a get a smooth dac like VMV D2 it can work better?
> 
> .


Yep, Spring 3 KTE. I consider it a “smooth” DAC with its NOS, but it is still quite transparent with minimal coloration to my ears. More so influences the transients, decay, and texture rather than tonality. 

I’ve upgraded my power conditioner and power cables, analogue XLRs etc., which as the above posts suggest, does indeed influence the overall chain a bit (mainly in technicalities like black background, bass extension, and macro/micro dynamics).


----------



## smile raidcall (Jun 24, 2022)

tawmizzzz said:


> Yep, Spring 3 KTE. I consider it a “smooth” DAC with its NOS, but it is still quite transparent with minimal coloration to my ears. More so influences the transients, decay, and texture rather than tonality.
> 
> I’ve upgraded my power conditioner and power cables, analogue XLRs etc., which as the above posts suggest, does indeed influence the overall chain a bit (mainly in technicalities like black background, bass extension, and macro/micro dynamics).



If I am on a budget or wanted to enter the realm of r2r DACs, Spring seems to be a good choice with OOR ?


----------



## Gavin C4 (Jun 24, 2022)

tawmizzzz said:


> Yep, Spring 3 KTE. I consider it a “smooth” DAC with its NOS, but it is still quite transparent with minimal coloration to my ears. More so influences the transients, decay, and texture rather than tonality.
> 
> I’ve upgraded my power conditioner and power cables, analogue XLRs etc., which as the above posts suggest, does indeed influence the overall chain a bit (mainly in technicalities like black background, bass extension, and macro/micro dynamics).


With this level of gear, the amp and headphones are so revealing that very detail in the chain will matters. The Ferrum OOR will not be the bottle neck of any kind, it is the kind of amp that up scale and make progress with you when you upgrade your upfront gear. The analogue cable do make a difference as they directly connect your DAC with OOR and carries the analogue signal. So is your headphone cable.


----------



## bluenight

krude said:


> For me May into Ferrum is an epic pairing for HD800. Smooth, natural, keeps the character of HD800.


Do you use stock balanced cable? I guess there will be much difference with single ended and balanced? But I wonder if HD800S really need that extra power but I guess what extra power brings is not all about how loud you can play but about grip and authority and effortlessness.


----------



## tawmizzzz

smile raidcall said:


> If I am on a budget or wanted to enter the realm of r2r DACs, Spring seems to be a good choice with OOR ?


Yeah haven’t met anyone who’s truly regretted Spring 3, especially with the OOR/hypsos. There’s a reason there’s not many on classified, and if they are, it’s to upgrade to the May.

But depends on the budget; I’ve heard the AresII is a warm-sounding R2R DAC if you want to stay in the $1k range albeit more color and less technical. Overall, OOR tends to showcase the DAC characteristics well due to its revealing/transparent/true-to-source nature.


----------



## krude

bluenight said:


> Do you use stock balanced cable? I guess there will be much difference with single ended and balanced? But I wonder if HD800S really need that extra power but I guess what extra power brings is not all about how loud you can play but about grip and authority and effortlessness.


Using the stock single ended. I don't think it needs much more. For me Oor with a detailed DAC signifficantly outresolve HD800 anyway. It's a pleasant and unique set though.


----------



## damascato

bluenight said:


> I got the right FPL cable in the end and have ordered it now. The highest end amp I have heard so far is the Sennhesiser HDV 820. I hope it can be better.
> 
> This is an amp that you csn be happy with for 5-10 years or end game if you want?
> 
> Any weaknesses in oor+hypsos?


I doubt they will create headphones as inefficient as Susvara, which anyway have been around for years! 

So yes, the oor can last you for ages.

Only weakness is that maybe (I say maybe…) there can be some amps with wider soundstage. But we’re splitting the hair here (which is what we do day in day out)


----------



## krude

damascato said:


> I doubt they will create headphones as inefficient as Susvara, which anyway have been around for years!
> 
> So yes, the oor can last you for ages.
> 
> Only weakness is that maybe (I say maybe…) there can be some amps with wider soundstage. But we’re splitting the hair here (which is what we do day in day out)


Also Ferrum stack is both technically accomplished, uniquely and maturely voiced, and beautiful in the way it sounds. Obviously you either appreciate it or not, it's a pertsonal taste thing, but there's no doubt they succeeded in creating a high end rendition of the sound signature they wanted.

As far as I'm concerned Oor has no obvious flaws. If you get wider stage it will compromise other aspects of the sound most likely.

Therefore Ferrum stack is an accomplished endgame candidate that could very well be your last SS amp.


----------



## bluenight

krude said:


> If you get wider stage it will compromise other aspects of the sound most likely.


I guess the layering and depth and resoulotion within the soundstage is more importent. And as long as is wide enough i would not have any problem with it. A less wide soundstage can maybe make it more intimate or thicker sounding ?


----------



## chargedcapacitor

bluenight said:


> I guess the layering and depth and resoulotion within the soundstage is more importent. And as long as is wide enough i would not have any problem with it. A less wide soundstage can maybe make it more intimate or thicker sounding ?


It's a pretty complex thing, and saying the normal audiophile jargon to explain it won't be sufficient. Alex grell, the lead engineer of the HD800, has several interviews where he explains how we perceive soundstage and how it helped him build the hd800.


----------



## bluenight

This runs hot or is it fairly cold? 

I see often on pictures they stack Oor + Hypsos on top of each other. So that's not a problem for longevity? As i read that heat wear faster on internal components. As long as its good ventilation on top and sides maybe thats ok?


----------



## Roasty

bluenight said:


> This runs hot or is it fairly cold?
> 
> I see often on pictures they stack Oor + Hypsos on top of each other. So that's not a problem for longevity? As i read that heat wear faster on internal components. As long as its good ventilation on top and sides maybe thats ok?



it runs slightly warm in an air-conditioned room, but gets quite hot without (ambient temps around 32c). I stack mine on top of each other.


----------



## dnd3241

I used a small fan to cool down since the iCan Pro also very hot.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Jun 26, 2022)

damascato said:


> I doubt they will create headphones as inefficient as Susvara, which anyway have been around for years!
> 
> So yes, the oor can last you for ages.
> 
> Only weakness is that maybe (I say maybe…) there can be some amps with wider soundstage. But we’re splitting the hair here (which is what we do day in day out)





krude said:


> Also Ferrum stack is both technically accomplished, uniquely and maturely voiced, and beautiful in the way it sounds. Obviously you either appreciate it or not, it's a pertsonal taste thing, but there's no doubt they succeeded in creating a high end rendition of the sound signature they wanted.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned Oor has no obvious flaws. If you get wider stage it will compromise other aspects of the sound most likely.
> 
> Therefore Ferrum stack is an accomplished endgame candidate that could very well be your last SS amp.



Although a lot of people have talked about OOR could have wider sound stage, even myself have posted about. But by no means it is a falt, because the OOR only present how the music is recorded or presented by your DAC. What goes in, what goes out. The OOR presents the width and depth as it is recorded in the mix and will not artificially enlarge the stage. It is also been able to present the depth exceptionally well, better than a lot of other amps.

The OOR does its job perfectly well with 8w of power and extremely black background. All other extra desire that we as audiophile have are personal preference of coloration.


----------



## TheR0v3r

krude said:


> Also Ferrum stack is both technically accomplished, uniquely and maturely voiced, and beautiful in the way it sounds. Obviously you either appreciate it or not, it's a pertsonal taste thing, but there's no doubt they succeeded in creating a high end rendition of the sound signature they wanted.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned Oor has no obvious flaws. If you get wider stage it will compromise other aspects of the sound most likely.
> 
> Therefore Ferrum stack is an accomplished endgame candidate that could very well be your last SS amp.


The problem with gear at this level is that it lets you hear strength and weaknesses in other parts of your chain. For example, this week my dealer lent my a PC to try with the Hypsos and it made a difference to the soundstage! (Too bad that it also is an expensive PC…) 

My point is that with this kind of gear it’s probably wise to avoid drawing conclusions too quickly and instead explore other parts of the chain. A hypothesis to work with is that the Ferrum OOR + Hypsos is ”perfect” and anything missing is either weaknesses in the rest of the chain or in the recording


----------



## TheR0v3r

Gavin C4 said:


> Although a lot of people have talked about OOR could have wider sound stage, even myself have posted about. But by no means it is a falt, because the OOR only present how the music is recorded or presented by your DAC. What goes in, what goes out. The OOR presents the width and depth as it is recorded in the mix and will not artificially enlarge the stage. It is also been able to present the depth exceptionally well, better than a lot of other amps.
> 
> The OOR does its job perfectly well with 8w of power and extremely black background. All other extra desire that we as audiophile have are personal preference of coloration.


Excellent post! I wrote my previous reply before seeing this post. 

One ”problem” is that most of us don’t have the level of gear to properly evaluate each and every part of the system. When we’re commenting on the lack of soundstage width (for example) we are more likely hearing bottlenecks in other parts of our systems or, as you wrote, the recording and personal preference.

P.S. My comments are when running the OOR + Hypsos with ”normal” gain. There is something happening when increasing or decreasing gain that alters the sound, but in a different way then when changing output voltage. It is as if the eq settings need adjustment everytime the gain is altered. Very strange (and maybe only my imagination).


----------



## Gavin C4 (Jun 26, 2022)

TheR0v3r said:


> The problem with gear at this level is that it lets you hear strength and weaknesses in other parts of your chain. For example, this week my dealer lent my a PC to try with the Hypsos and it made a difference to the soundstage! (Too bad that it also is an expensive PC…)
> 
> My point is that with this kind of gear it’s probably wise to avoid drawing conclusions too quickly and instead explore other parts of the chain. A hypothesis to work with is that the Ferrum OOR + Hypsos is ”perfect” and anything missing is either weaknesses in the rest of the chain or in the recording



I just run a intel NUC, (Roon Nucleus), powered by Ferrum Hypsos at 15v, and use Roon to stream music to my streaming DAC.  Not really that expensive to build your own Intel NUC.

The background will be blacker and quiteier by using a PC or Nuc powered by a Ferrum Hypsos. The Roon Nucleus is actually a supported devicd under Hypsos's list of supported device. FYI

Therefore I got 3 Ferrum Hypsos in my chain, one for OOR, one for Roon Nucleus, one for Nordost Qnet.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Jun 26, 2022)

TheR0v3r said:


> Excellent post! I wrote my previous reply before seeing this post.
> 
> One ”problem” is that most of us don’t have the level of gear to properly evaluate each and every part of the system. When we’re commenting on the lack of soundstage width (for example) we are more likely hearing bottlenecks in other parts of our systems or, as you wrote, the recording and personal preference.
> 
> P.S. My comments are when running the OOR + Hypsos with ”normal” gain. There is something happening when increasing or decreasing gain that alters the sound, but in a different way then when changing output voltage. It is as if the eq settings need adjustment everytime the gain is altered. Very strange (and maybe only my imagination).



Let me make an assumption here, those who purchased a Ferrum Hypsos stack will not be using Sub $200 budget DAC and headphone as their to go reference. (Except HD6xx even I use it from time to time.)

I would not say there are bottlenecks especially with the headphone. To date 2022, there are a lots of really good headphones even at the sub 1000 mark. A lot of the time it is the headphone's characteristic. It is ment to do something according to their strength. For example the Utopia strength in pin pointing imaging in a studio sized preformance. A relatively more imatate sounding presentation compared to a HD800. Yes, you may want wider stage, but we should first understand the headphone's and Ferrum OOR's strength.

With the ampification of Ferrum OOR you are truely hearing what your headphone and upfront source gear sounds like. Therefore, with the Ferrum Stack you can fully enjoy the characteristic of the gear as designed without artifically twisting the signature or performance.

There are ways, for example, to add more width or add more emotion to the vocals. Such as adding a tube pre, changing out power cords or XLR cable or even fuses. But this is uncharted territory for head fi, and not very popular.

Therefore, those who already have the luxury of owning a Ferrum Stack, you can relax and sit on your couch or rocky chair and enjoy your music and exotic collection of gears without any worries. They are all performing at their most with glory and the OOR will do them justice.


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## Gavin C4 (Jun 26, 2022)

TheR0v3r said:


> Excellent post! I wrote my previous reply before seeing this post.
> 
> One ”problem” is that most of us don’t have the level of gear to properly evaluate each and every part of the system. When we’re commenting on the lack of soundstage width (for example) we are more likely hearing bottlenecks in other parts of our systems or, as you wrote, the recording and personal preference.
> 
> P.S. My comments are when running the OOR + Hypsos with ”normal” gain. There is something happening when increasing or decreasing gain that alters the sound, but in a different way then when changing output voltage. It is as if the eq settings need adjustment everytime the gain is altered. Very strange (and maybe only my imagination).



Let me make an assumption here, those who purchased a Ferrum Hypsos stack will not be using Sub $200 budget DAC and headphone as their to go reference. (Except HD6xx even I use it from time to time.)

I would not say there are bottlenecks especially with the headphone. A lot of the time it is the headphone's characteristic. It is ment to do something according to their strength. For example the Utopia strength in pin pointing imaging in a studio sized preformance. A relatively more imatate sounding presentation compared to a HD800. Yes, you may want wider stage, but we should first understand the headphone's and Ferrum OOR's strength.

With the ampification of Ferrum OOR you are truely hearing what your headphone and upfront source gear sounds like. Therefore, with the Ferrum Stack you can fully enjoy the characteristic of the gear as designed without artifically twisting the signature or performance.

There are ways, for example, to add more width or add more emotion to the vocals. Such as adding a tube pre, changing out power cords or XLR cable or even fuses. But this is uncharted territory for head fi, and no very popular.

Therefore, those who ready have the luxury to own a Ferrum OOR stack, can sit comfortablely on your couch or rocky chair and listen to music and enjoy your collection of exotic gears in your setup without any worries. They are all performing at their most with glory, and the OOR will do them justice.


----------



## TheR0v3r

Gavin C4 said:


> I just run a intel NUC, (Roon Nucleus), powered by Ferrum Hypsos at 15v, and use Roon to stream music to my streaming DAC.  Not really that expensive to build your own Intel NUC.
> 
> The background will be blacker and quiteier by using a PC or Nuc powered by a Ferrum Hypsos. The Roon Nucleus is actually a supported devicd under Hypsos's list of supported device. FYI
> 
> Therefore I got 3 Ferrum Hypsos in my chain, one for OOR, one for Roon Nucleus, one for Nordost Qnet.


In my post the abbreviation PC was for power cable… I’m sorry for making the most misleading post of the day. 

Agree with everything you wrote.


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## TheR0v3r

Gavin C4 said:


> Let me make an assumption here, those who purchased a Ferrum Hypsos stack will not be using Sub $200 budget DAC and headphone as their to go reference. (Except HD6xx even I use it from time to time.)
> 
> I would not say there are bottlenecks especially with the headphone. A lot of the time it is the headphone's characteristic. It is ment to do something according to their strength. For example the Utopia strength in pin pointing imaging in a studio sized preformance. A relatively more imatate sounding presentation compared to a HD800. Yes, you may want wider stage, but we should first understand the headphone's and Ferrum OOR's strength.
> 
> ...


Brilliant post! I was trying to make this point (albeit not as well):

_With the ampification of Ferrum OOR you are truely hearing what your headphone and upfront source gear sounds like. Therefore, with the Ferrum Stack you can fully enjoy the characteristic of the gear as designed without artifically twisting the signature or performance._

Maybe I should’ve used a different word than bottleneck. With my previous DAC (Chord) music sounded a certain way when I listened with the OOR, with my current DAC (Merason) the same music sounds different. Soundstage, imaging, tonality, timbre, dynamics - all are different! For some people better and for some people worse. 

IMHO the Ferrum OOR + Hypsos is a (relative) bargain and I’d just hate for people to not consider it or part with it for the wrong reasons.


----------



## ozziegurkan

Gavin C4 said:


> I just run a intel NUC, (Roon Nucleus), powered by Ferrum Hypsos at 15v, and use Roon to stream music to my streaming DAC.  Not really that expensive to build your own Intel NUC.
> 
> The background will be blacker and quiteier by using a PC or Nuc powered by a Ferrum Hypsos. The Roon Nucleus is actually a supported devicd under Hypsos's list of supported device. FYI
> 
> Therefore I got 3 Ferrum Hypsos in my chain, one for OOR, one for Roon Nucleus, one for Nordost Qnet.


I am curious about your Roon experience. I have the Nucleus and running it off an ifi iPower right now. Should I try moving my Hypsos over? I can always listen through my other amps. Worth it?


----------



## dudeX

Gavin C4 said:


> Let me make an assumption here, those who purchased a Ferrum Hypsos stack will not be using Sub $200 budget DAC and headphone as their to go reference. (Except HD6xx even I use it from time to time.)


I use my HarmonicDyne Zeus with the OOR a lot. I put it on low gain, since the Zeus is high sensitivity, and I lower the voltage on the Hypsos. And it sounds excellent, Get a wide stage, and good technical performance. I also have a 6xx, which I use on occasion, and the Oor-May combo makes it really enjoyable, otherwise I am not too impressed with it on other gear.
And some evenings I pull out the Susvara to really listen to the music. Originally I did get the Ferrum Stack to listen to the Susvara all the time, but I found it fatiguing since song mastering can affect enjoyment. So the Zeus became my go to.


----------



## bluenight

TheR0v3r said:


> With the ampification of Ferrum OOR you are truely hearing what your headphone and upfront source gear sounds like. Therefore, with the Ferrum Stack you can fully enjoy the characteristic of the gear as designed without artifically twisting the signature or performance.


Is this the only strength of the Oor+ Hypsos stack? Is this unique though for HP amps at this price point?


----------



## Gavin C4

bluenight said:


> Is this the only strength of the Oor+ Hypsos stack? Is this unique though for HP amps at this price point?



The Ferrum stack gives really great bass punch especially on plannar. A lot of amp are unable to make the Susvara slam. Some get Muffuled or undynamic bass. 

The OOR also aims for fatigue free signature, the treble is extremely detail but not sharp at all. The mids have a slight warmth, just to make everything a pleasure to listen. All the above coloration are very slightly and will no mask off any bits of gear in your chain.


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## 21qz

Guys is it normal that the light indicator on left (white) stays on all the time on the oor? I flip the switch on the hypsos to turn that one off.


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## Gavin C4

21qz said:


> Guys is it normal that the light indicator on left (white) stays on all the time on the oor? I flip the switch on the hypsos to turn that one off.



There is a wheel at the back of the OOR, turn it to lowest I should dim the lights of the logo.


----------



## MatW

21qz said:


> Guys is it normal that the light indicator on left (white) stays on all the time on the oor? I flip the switch on the hypsos to turn that one off.


You can also put the Hypsos in standby mode by pressing and holding the knob.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

Gavin C4 said:


> The Ferrum stack gives really great bass punch especially on plannar. A lot of amp are unable to make the Susvara slam. Some get Muffuled or undynamic bass.
> 
> The OOR also aims for fatigue free signature, the treble is extremely detail but not sharp at all. The mids have a slight warmth, just to make everything a pleasure to listen. All the above coloration are very slightly and will no mask off any bits of gear in your chain.



For the price actually I prefer other amp (subjective matter), but Oor/Hypsos is definitely still a great amp. I also agree with the statement above as what special about ferrum stack.


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## Gavin C4

TheMiddleSky said:


> For the price actually I prefer other amp (subjective matter), but Oor/Hypsos is definitely still a great amp. I also agree with the statement above as what special about ferrum stack.



What other amp do you prefer that has some elements that the OOR does not have? We need some more input on the possible weakness of the OOR. As we all know, no single amp is perfect, it really depends on pairing and how well your chain is.


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## ozziegurkan

Gavin C4 said:


> What other amp do you prefer that has some elements that the OOR does not have? We need some more input on the possible weakness of the OOR. As we all know, no single amp is perfect, it really depends on pairing and how well your chain is.



For me, I have been A/Bing back and forth with the ifi Pro ICAN signature and Burson Soloist 3X GT, which are all in the same price range. The ifi has a lot more power at 14 watts with SS and Tube outputs. The Burson is slightly sharper than the rest but I just ordered Sparkos and SIL op amps to roll in order to tweak it some. They are all slamming my Susvara in different ways but all great off the same DAC. The OOR definitely sounds the most natural in terms of musicality while the iCAN is close second with the SS/Tube combo. The Burson just sharpens it up and sounds really great on EDM music.


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## Gavin C4

ozziegurkan said:


> For me, I have been A/Bing back and forth with the ifi Pro ICAN signature and Burson Soloist 3X GT, which are all in the same price range. The ifi has a lot more power at 14 watts with SS and Tube outputs. The Burson is slightly sharper than the rest but I just ordered Sparkos and SIL op amps to roll in order to tweak it some. They are all slamming my Susvara in different ways but all great off the same DAC. The OOR definitely sounds the most natural in terms of musicality while the iCAN is close second with the SS/Tube combo. The Burson just sharpens it up and sounds really great on EDM music.



I can see the iFi Pro ICAN as a very versatile option as it offers both SS and tube and bass boost options with tons of power.


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## Gavin C4

The Ferrum Hypsos OOR does only one thing at its best, which is a very natural listening experience for a solid-state amp. It includes all the detail and bass slam but ensures zero sharpness. Music is truly analog-like, and it is done only by SS circurity.


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## krude (Jun 27, 2022)

ozziegurkan said:


> For me, I have been A/Bing back and forth with the ifi Pro ICAN signature and Burson Soloist 3X GT, which are all in the same price range. The ifi has a lot more power at 14 watts with SS and Tube outputs. The Burson is slightly sharper than the rest but I just ordered Sparkos and SIL op amps to roll in order to tweak it some. They are all slamming my Susvara in different ways but all great off the same DAC. The OOR definitely sounds the most natural in terms of musicality while the iCAN is close second with the SS/Tube combo. The Burson just sharpens it up and sounds really great on EDM music.


As far as Im aware iCan Pro has 14w at 16ohms while Oor has 8 watts at 50 ohm. This is a huge simplificatiom because those amps are probably not fully linear with their delivery, but that would mean that iCan Pro has around 4-5w into 50ohm, making Oor potentially quite a bit more powerful.

This is not to say that iCans power is not enough, as this still should give a lot of headroom.

If you use iCan on 0 gain how much volume do you need to apply to make Susvara properly loud? And do you know how many V does your dac provide?

I was curious about the iCan pro for a while, might give it a shot at some point.


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## ozziegurkan

krude said:


> As far as Im aware iCan Pro has 14w at 16ohms while Oor has 8 watts at 50 ohm. This is a huge simplificatiom because those amps are probably not fully linear with their delivery, but that would mean that iCan Pro has around 4-5w into 50ohm, making Oor potentially quite a bit more powerful.
> 
> This is not to say that iCans power is not enough, as this still should give a lot of headroom.
> 
> ...


The gain on the ifi is crazy at 18db for high, so it kicks up a big notch. I think you might be underestimating the wattage at 50. Sus is 60 ohms. 

With that said, though, let me try it out today and normalize the SPLs on zero gain on both to see what the volume knobs look like. 

I’m using the XLR outs from Yggy which is 4 volts. It’s pretty hot.


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## Gavin C4

krude said:


> As far as Im aware iCan Pro has 14w at 16ohms while Oor has 8 watts at 50 ohm. This is a huge simplificatiom because those amps are probably not fully linear with their delivery, but that would mean that iCan Pro has around 4-5w into 50ohm, making Oor potentially quite a bit more powerful.
> 
> This is not to say that iCans power is not enough, as this still should give a lot of headroom.
> 
> ...


Thank you for pointing out the power and ohm load issue, the integrated speaker amp that I also use for the Susvara is rated at 200W×2 (4Ω), not sure how it translates at the Ω for the Susvara. When we are driving the HD800 or Susvara, we need some beefy amp and the OOR does the heavy lifting without a sweat.


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## krude

ozziegurkan said:


> The gain on the ifi is crazy at 18db for high, so it kicks up a big notch. I think you might be underestimating the wattage at 50. Sus is 60 ohms.
> 
> With that said, though, let me try it out today and normalize the SPLs on zero gain on both to see what the volume knobs look like.
> 
> I’m using the XLR outs from Yggy which is 4 volts. It’s pretty hot.


Ah sorry, Oor is 8w at 60ohm, so that would translate to slightly below 4w for iCan if it was linear, which it's probably not. Just bringing this up because companies use different measures to provide power figures and then prople who don't go into proper details draw conclusions based on incomplete understanding.

If Oor was linear it would be around 110w into 4ohm. Again this is a huge simplification and we would have to measure at specified loads to know for sure.

4v is standard for balanced, should allow to get Susvara as loud as possible on 0 gain with Oor, I'm just wondering if iCan can also do it on 0 gain. Soloist GT could do it on low but with a 5.8v dac.


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## ozziegurkan

krude said:


> Ah sorry, Oor is 8w at 60ohm, so that would translate to slightly below 4w for iCan if it was linear, which it's probably not. Just bringing this up because companies use different measures to provide power figures and then prople who don't go into proper details draw conclusions based on incomplete understanding.
> 
> If Oor was linear it would be around 110w into 4ohm. Again this is a huge simplification and we would have to measure at specified loads to know for sure.
> 
> 4v is standard for balanced, should allow to get Susvara as loud as possible on 0 gain with Oor, I'm just wondering if iCan can also do it on 0 gain. Soloist GT could do it on low but with a 5.8v dac.


Well, the OOR gain structure is -4, 6, and 16. While the ifi is 0, 9, and 18. It’s not going to be a good comparison without knowing the Voltage output. I wish manufacturers gave more info. Anyway, I am trying it out now. I’m going to keep ifi at their zero and leave OOR at the middle. I don’t think this will work, so I might put ifi in the middle setting at 9db.


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## krude

ozziegurkan said:


> Well, the OOR gain structure is -4, 6, and 16. While the ifi is 0, 9, and 18. It’s not going to be a good comparison without knowing the Voltage output. I wish manufacturers gave more info. Anyway, I am trying it out now. I’m going to keep ifi at their zero and leave OOR at the middle. I don’t think this will work, so I might put ifi in the middle setting at 9db.


Ah you're right, it is actually +6db. Would be interested how iCan performs in relation. The lower gain the better for me


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## ozziegurkan (Jun 27, 2022)

Ifi at Zero gain and middle volume knob. Plenty of juice going into sus.





OOR at their zero and and middle knob is actually softer in volume and gentler. 

Ifi has more volume and sounds energetic (little sharper). It’s running in SS mode. 

So, the ifi has more juice at their lowest setting versus OOR. Interesting?

Let me use the rudimentary iPhone DB meter and see for real.


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## krude

ozziegurkan said:


> Ifi at Zero gain and middle volume knob. Plenty of juice going into sus.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Volume knobs and calibration are another factor, but it does look promising for iCan 😀

I think I'll pick one up next 👍


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## ozziegurkan

krude said:


> Volume knobs and calibration are another factor, but it does look promising for iCan 😀
> 
> I think I'll pick one up next 👍


Yeah, I know. So, I confirmed it with my highly scientific method. 

OOR spl:




Ifi SPL:




I can also hear it. One thing you can do with the ifi, which is super fun, is to do this:





More sub-basssssss!!!


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## EMINENT

ozziegurkan said:


> Yeah, I know. So, I confirmed it with my highly scientific method.
> 
> OOR spl:
> 
> ...




I use high gain as I eq. I think chargedcapacitor mentioned he had less headroom on the iCan in high gain. I never did these tests when I had it. I also preferred the fine tuning of peq compared to the Xbass presets but that's just me.


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## chargedcapacitor

EMINENT said:


> I use high gain as I eq. I think chargedcapacitor mentioned he had less headroom on the iCan in high gain. I never did these tests when I had it. I also preferred the fine tuning of peq compared to the Xbass presets but that's just me.


Yes, that is correct. The iCan topped out at 2-3:00, and never made any more power past that.


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## ozziegurkan

EMINENT said:


> I use high gain as I eq. I think chargedcapacitor mentioned he had less headroom on the iCan in high gain. I never did these tests when I had it. I also preferred the fine tuning of peq compared to the Xbass presets but that's just me.


I use Roon with no volume leveling and no eq. I only have the clipping indicator on just in case I need to skip that song altogether. Personally, when I was using volume leveling or any EQ, I was losing a lot of dynamics (micro and macro) that I had to put back in through gain in the chain (To my ears it didn’t do it justice). I rely heavily on the headphone being left alone to produce the sound so that I don’t have to worry about it across other sources and players. But that’s just me. So I keep only those cans that sound good to me OOB. And sell those that don’t. Because of that, I never need to pay the price of higher gain down the chain. So, with my little experiment the ifi was at zero gain and middle volume knob gives me massive headroom for the Sus. But I can see how -18db (vol leveling plus pre-eq headroom) up front can require a +18db downstream.


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## smile raidcall

Thanks for the impression on both the OOR and iFi, I can see both are very strong contender and short listed. IFi seems to have a higher gain, therefore It should be louder.


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## dnd3241

Ifi Pro Cans is higher voice but you can feel it's more tight and sharp ! OOR is much more natural and wider stage.


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## EMINENT (Jun 27, 2022)

ozziegurkan said:


> I use Roon with no volume leveling and no eq. I only have the clipping indicator on just in case I need to skip that song altogether. Personally, when I was using volume leveling or any EQ, I was losing a lot of dynamics (micro and macro) that I had to put back in through gain in the chain (To my ears it didn’t do it justice). I rely heavily on the headphone being left alone to produce the sound so that I don’t have to worry about it across other sources and players. But that’s just me. So I keep only those cans that sound good to me OOB. And sell those that don’t. Because of that, I never need to pay the price of higher gain down the chain. So, with my little experiment the ifi was at zero gain and middle volume knob gives me massive headroom for the Sus. But I can see how -18db (vol leveling plus pre-eq headroom) up front can require a +18db downstream.



Interesting take. I respect that, but I wonder what may have gone wrong for you.
In my experience I have heard nothing but improvement when using eq. I believe in utilizing everything at my disposal/budget and would add that if the gear can't take high gain and eq without hiss, then it wouldn't cut it for me. I think there are advantages or differences to be had everywhere. Like I haven't tried different cables but I have fuses, but not ruling it out as a possibility and something I want to try in the future.

As great as the Oor is, I have a hard time recommending it over others from a cost perspective. The convolution was the best $200 I spent and the biggest significant improvement I have spent money on.

But, to their credit they were all super silent at max except the WA7.


----------



## TheFrator

Gavin C4 said:


> The OOR also aims for fatigue free signature, the treble is extremely detail but not sharp at all. The mids have a slight warmth, just to make everything a pleasure to listen. All the above coloration are very slightly and will no mask off any bits of gear in your chain.


+1 to fatigue free signature. Since getting the Oor a few weeks ago, the lack of fatigue has been my favorite thing about it and something I didn't know amps could accomplish. I'm pretty sensitive to treble and prefer headphones with dark signatures, but never did I expect an amp to be able to relieve some of the treble until the Oor. The previous amps I used with my LCD5s (Soloist 3XP and A90) would do something to the treble that would begin to wear me down after an hour or two of listening. And I don't even have the Hypsos yet either!


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## TheFrator

duplicate


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## Gavin C4 (Jun 27, 2022)

TheFrator said:


> +1 to fatigue free signature. Since getting the Oor a few weeks ago, the lack of fatigue has been my favorite thing about it and something I didn't know amps could accomplish. I'm pretty sensitive to treble and prefer headphones with dark signatures, but never did I expect an amp to be able to relieve some of the treble until the Oor. The previous amps I used with my LCD5s (Soloist 3XP and A90) would do something to the treble that would begin to wear me down after an hour or two of listening. And I don't even have the Hypsos yet either!



Most importantly, you do not miss out any detail on the treble with the OOR. It maintains just the perfect amount. Spend more time with your OOR so that you know what it is capable of before upgrading to the Hypsos. So that you can have a second wow moment after you do that upgrade.


----------



## 801evan

ozziegurkan said:


> Yeah, I know. So, I confirmed it with my highly scientific method.
> 
> OOR spl:
> 
> ...


This aligns with what I've been saying ...lol. I'm still surprised how much less power the OOR is on unity gain, which is the most important. Which makes it a big pass for me. I can do Diablo (modded) low gain on the Sus to get even lower distortion.


----------



## bluenight

Gavin C4 said:


> The OOR also aims for fatigue free signature, the treble is extremely detail but not sharp at all.


But still there was some comments recently about finding Susvara and HD800S fatiguing and harsh. I was a little surprised at that because I read Ferrum website whit the message of listening fatigue something of the past. And Soundnews youtube rewiev said similar. Maybe something else in the chain then thats causing it?


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## Gavin C4

bluenight said:


> But still there was some comments recently about finding Susvara and HD800S fatiguing and harsh. I was a little surprised at that because I read Ferrum website whit the message of listening fatigue something of the past. And Soundnews youtube rewiev said similar. Maybe something else in the chain then thats causing it?


There are a lot of other components in the chain and even the listener themselves might have a different level of tolerance to treble. I have once experienced using ESS chips DACs, and I actually felt they sounded brighter than the AKM chips or R2R DACs that I owned. However it might not be true for all ESS DACs, so it is just one sample. It could be caused by brighter DAC or silver cables used in the chain, or maybe the listener is just very sensitive to treble sharpness.


----------



## TheR0v3r

EMINENT said:


> Interesting take. I respect that, but I wonder what may have gone wrong for you.
> In my experience I have heard nothing but improvement when using eq. I believe in utilizing everything at my disposal/budget and would add that if the gear can't take high gain and eq without hiss, then it wouldn't cut it for me. I think there are advantages or differences to be had everywhere. Like I haven't tried different cables but I have fuses, but not ruling it out as a possibility and something I want to try in the future.
> 
> As great as the Oor is, I have a hard time recommending it over others from a cost perspective. The convolution was the best $200 I spent and the biggest significant improvement I have spent money on.
> ...


And I find the Oor easy to recommend over others from a cost perspective! Not saying that you’re wrong, just reminding that value is in the eye of the beholder  

From my POV you get an excellent and very flexible headphone amplification ”solution” with it, a 3-in-1. I’ve used it as a preamp with the Burson Soloist 3xp running in power amp mode, as a power amp with a Primaluna as preamp and finally as an integrated headphone amplifier. IMHO it works really, really well in all three modes.


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## EMINENT (Jun 28, 2022)

TheFrator said:


> +1 to fatigue free signature. Since getting the Oor a few weeks ago, the lack of fatigue has been my favorite thing about it and something I didn't know amps could accomplish. I'm pretty sensitive to treble and prefer headphones with dark signatures, but never did I expect an amp to be able to relieve some of the treble until the Oor. The previous amps I used with my LCD5s (Soloist 3XP and A90) would do something to the treble that would begin to wear me down after an hour or two of listening. And I don't even have the Hypsos yet either!



You may or may not like what I have to report.

I was able to test and I just tried the regular power cable with the Oor by itself since I never have before. At first, I didn't notice anything with the opening of Olivia Rodrigo's - Deja Vu and decided there has to be more to it. So, I put on one of my bass test tracks, Santero ft Credit To The Nation - _Drop The Bomb_ (_Deekline_ V Product 01 Remix) (This is track #2 on the EP for some reason Roon omits the remix names when it's super long.) and couldn't tell much until @ 1:00. This passage between 1:00 and then @ 1:30 and on was the area I tested back and forth 3-4 times and there it was.

It would have been overlooked if I wasn't looking for it, but it was noticeable back to back to back looking for it. There is clearly a weightier heft to the wobbly bass. It was thicker with the Hypsos and I had to confirm it over and over again. The Oor on it's own is no slouch and good on it's own, but Hypsos/Oor is the better option. If anything, the bass. If you didn't listen to much bass, it probably wouldn't matter much.

So tldr, yes improvements to be had and wallets to be emptied.


----------



## EMINENT

TheR0v3r said:


> And I find the Oor easy to recommend over others from a cost perspective! Not saying that you’re wrong, just reminding that value is in the eye of the beholder
> 
> From my POV you get an excellent and very flexible headphone amplification ”solution” with it, a 3-in-1. I’ve used it as a preamp with the Burson Soloist 3xp running in power amp mode, as a power amp with a Primaluna as preamp and finally as an integrated headphone amplifier. IMHO it works really, really well in all three modes.



Sorry, I may have left out some context. What I meant was from a cost perspective in comparison to a $200 convolution filter.


----------



## TheFrator

EMINENT said:


> You may or may not like what I have to report.
> 
> I was able to test and I just tried the regular power cable with the Oor by itself since I never have before. At first, I didn't notice anything with the opening of Olivia Rodrigo's - Deja Vu and decided there has to be more to it. So, I put on one of my bass test tracks, Santero ft Credit To The Nation - _Drop The Bomb_ (_Deekline_ V Product 01 Remix) (This is track #2 on the EP for some reason Roon omits the remix names when it's super long.) and couldn't tell much until @ 1:00. This passage between 1:00 and then @ 1:30 was the area I tested back and forth 3-4 times and there it was.
> 
> ...


I do like to hear that . Means I have an upgrade to look forward once I get too accustomed to the current sound I'm getting.


----------



## Gavin C4

EMINENT said:


> You may or may not like what I have to report.
> 
> I was able to test and I just tried the regular power cable with the Oor by itself since I never have before. At first, I didn't notice anything with the opening of Olivia Rodrigo's - Deja Vu and decided there has to be more to it. So, I put on one of my bass test tracks, Santero ft Credit To The Nation - _Drop The Bomb_ (_Deekline_ V Product 01 Remix) (This is track #2 on the EP for some reason Roon omits the remix names when it's super long.) and couldn't tell much until @ 1:00. This passage between 1:00 and then @ 1:30 and on was the area I tested back and forth 3-4 times and there it was.
> 
> ...



You can also upgrade the power cord that is connected to the Hypsos.  This will also allow you to fine-tune your preferred signature.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

Gavin C4 said:


> You can also upgrade the power cord that is connected to the Hypsos.  This will also allow you to fine-tune your preferred signature.


Yes, the man had a hard time telling the difference between ACTIVE components in his chain, but a power cable will certainly tip the scales for him.


----------



## bluenight

Is the THD+Noise 000.4 on Oor? I saw that spec on the Headfonia review page on the Ferrum Oor page it only says TBA. 

If thats correct i would say its an pretty quiet amp considering its power. Satisfying enough. I know numbers isent everything also.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

bluenight said:


> Is the THD+Noise 000.4 on Oor? I saw that spec on the Headfonia review page on the Ferrum Oor page it only says TBA.
> 
> If thats correct i would say its an pretty quiet amp considering its power. Satisfying enough. I know numbers isent everything also.


Goldensound did a measurement and review of it. It's THD+noise is very low when using the stock PSU and setting the amp in bypass mode.


----------



## bluenight (Jun 29, 2022)

chargedcapacitor said:


> Goldensound did a measurement and review of it. It's THD+noise is very low when using the stock PSU and setting the amp in bypass mode.


But it should be even quieter with hypsos? Or hypsos adds noise? Or he just dident measure with hypsos? Bypass mode is the same as poweramp mode?

I can't see any Oor review from Goldensound last review from him i see is 1 year ago. Maybe your thinking of Z reviews? they have similar stile in photage.

Edit found it.  https://goldensound.audio/2021/10/27/ferrum-oor-and-hypsos-measurements/


----------



## chargedcapacitor

bluenight said:


> But it should be even quieter with hypsos? Or hypsos adds noise? Or he just dident measure with hypsos? Bypass mode is the same as poweramp mode?
> 
> I can't see any Oor review from Goldensound last review from him i see is 1 year ago. Maybe your thinking of Z reviews? they have similar stile in photage.
> 
> Edit found it.  https://goldensound.audio/2021/10/27/ferrum-oor-and-hypsos-measurements/


Last I checked Zeos didn't do measurements


----------



## OneEyedHito

dnd3241 said:


> Ifi Pro Cans is higher voice but you can feel it's more tight and sharp ! OOR is much more natural and wider stage.


Well said. This was my experience with both of these and the Susvara.


----------



## ToddRaymond

I wonder if the gap between the iFi Signature and the OOR + Hypsos (albeit, perhaps more of a subjectively different flavour, as opposed to be a better/worse different) would be narrowed much by using [insert your preferred 2C51 / 6N3P / 5670 tube]?


----------



## chargedcapacitor

ToddRaymond said:


> I wonder if the gap between the iFi Signature and the OOR + Hypsos (albeit, perhaps more of a subjectively different flavour, as opposed to be a better/worse different) would be narrowed much by using [insert your preferred 2C51 / 6N3P / 5670 tube]?


No, it wouldn't. Adding more to the signal chain of the signature won't give it the transparency/detail/smoothness of the OOR. It would be like polishing your windows when your glasses are smudged.


----------



## SlothRock

Just coming in to say I friggin love the OOR + Hypsos. Having it alongside the Euforia is a perfect 1:2 punch of amp flavors. The OOR is so neutral, yet helps calm any type of fatiguing sound signature where-as the Euforia helps to bump up the mids/bass when I want more flavor and produces that euphonic tubey goodness. A couple nights ago I was listening to the new Coheed album and the Atrium paired with the Euforia made the vocals a bit too fatiguing to my ear. Switched to the OOR + Hypsos and it leveled everything out perfectly. Fantastic amp


----------



## MatW (Jul 1, 2022)

SlothRock said:


> Just coming in to say I friggin love the OOR + Hypsos. Having it alongside the Euforia is a perfect 1:2 punch of amp flavors. The OOR is so neutral, yet helps calm any type of fatiguing sound signature where-as the Euforia helps to bump up the mids/bass when I want more flavor and produces that euphonic tubey goodness. A couple nights ago I was listening to the new Coheed album and the Atrium paired with the Euforia made the vocals a bit too fatiguing to my ear. Switched to the OOR + Hypsos and it leveled everything out perfectly. Fantastic amp



👍


----------



## Gavin C4

Actually do think a tube amp is a really good complement with the OOR. While the OOR gives a really detailed SS presentation, a tube amp can give a golden atmosphere and warmth. You could even use it as a tube pre to the OOR in power amp mode.


----------



## Tom75

MatW said:


> 👍


Hi Mat,
Great to see the Holo May 
Is the Feliks integrated in the system?
Or do you use it in parallel?


----------



## ToddRaymond

chargedcapacitor said:


> No, it wouldn't. Adding more to the signal chain of the signature won't give it the transparency/detail/smoothness of the OOR. It would be like polishing your windows when your glasses are smudged.


Swapping out the stock tubes of the Signature for _other_ tubes would not be "adding more to the signal chain of the signature".


----------



## MatW

Tom75 said:


> Hi Mat,
> Great to see the Holo May
> Is the Feliks integrated in the system?
> Or do you use it in parallel?


I don't use the Feliks as a preamp but alternate between the Euforia and the OOR, depending on the length of the listening session (because the Euforia needs to warm up) and the headphone used.


----------



## ozziegurkan

I have been using OOR as a preamp into my Bigger Ben and it is absolutely amazing. I get to hear the OOR with the tube ease of power into my RAD-0 and Susvaras. I sometimes switch directly to the OOR to compare as well.


----------



## MatW (Jul 1, 2022)

MatW said:


> I don't use the Feliks as a preamp but alternate between the Euforia and the OOR, depending on the length of the listening session (because the Euforia needs to warm up) and the headphone used.


I'm quite satisfied with this setup but out of curiosity I'll order an extra set of RCA cables and try to combine the two amps. I always intended to use the Euforia as the pre, as it is more colored than the OOR and will add some flavor. Not sure what the OOR adds as a pre to the Euforia, since it's pretty neutral, but I'll give it a go as well.

Edit: question. Is the full power switch at the back of the OOR essentially the same as turning the volume up to 100%? The latter is easier and also easier to see and be reminded of..


----------



## Tom75

MatW said:


> I'm quite satisfied with this setup but out of curiosity I'll order an extra set of RCA cables and try to combine the two amps. I always intended to use the Euforia as the pre, as it is more colored than the OOR and will add some flavor. Not sure what the OOR adds to the Euforia, since it's pretty neutral, but I'll give it a go as well.


Highly interested in the result,  Mat!!!


----------



## Gavin C4 (Jul 1, 2022)

MatW said:


> I'm quite satisfied with this setup but out of curiosity I'll order an extra set of RCA cables and try to combine the two amps. I always intended to use the Euforia as the pre, as it is more colored than the OOR and will add some flavor. Not sure what the OOR adds as a pre to the Euforia, since it's pretty neutral, but I'll give it a go as well.
> 
> Edit: question. Is the full power switch at the back of the OOR essentially the same as turning the volume up to 100%? The latter is easier and also easier to see and be reminded of..



The power amp switch : by-pass the volume nob, and is set to zero gain. (Mid gain on OOR) In this sense, maybe it means your signal only goes to the amp section and by-pass the preamp. It has gone through less component.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

ToddRaymond said:


> Swapping out the stock tubes of the Signature for _other_ tubes would not be "adding more to the signal chain of the signature".


You're right, my bad. For some reason I thought you were referring to a tube preamp.

That being said, I don't think any different tubes will change it in the direction it really needs to go, not in a significant way at least.


----------



## TheR0v3r

Gavin C4 said:


> The power amp switch : by-pass the volume nob, and is set to zero gain. (Mid gain on OOR) In this sense, maybe it means your signal only goes to the amp section and by-pass the preamp. It has gone through less component.


Good thinking. 

Does anyone know if your actually by-passing the preamp or “just” by-passing the pot (ie cranking the volume to 100%) with zero gain?


----------



## bluenight

Does the gain switches still work with power amp mode?


----------



## chargedcapacitor

bluenight said:


> Does the gain switches still work with power amp mode?


No


----------



## bluenight (Jul 2, 2022)

Mine Ferrum Oor and Hypsos have arrived. And i started listening to just Oor too see what Hypsos will add later on.

I am not to impressed with Oor on its own with HD800S Hugo2 as Dac. Sure it got a little more refinement and extra detail and resolution compared to Lake People RS 02 ($600) and THX 789 but I was expecting more difference. Its not bad though. My first impressions and things can change. Maybe burn in can be real but i dont have time to consider that. Hopefully it gets better with Hypsos.

I couldn't here much difference with single ended and balanced HP outputs either probebly mostly heard the difference between the stock balanced cable vs tonekraft single ended.


----------



## TheR0v3r

bluenight said:


> Mine Ferrum Oor and Hypsos have arrived. And i started listening to just Oor too see what Hypsos will add later on.
> 
> I am not to impressed with Oor on its own with HD800S Hugo2 as Dac. Sure it got a little more refinement and extra detail and resolution compared to Lake People RS 02 ($600) and THX 789 but I was expecting more difference. Its not bad though. My first impressions and things can change. Maybe burn in can be real but i dont have time to consider that. Hopefully it gets better with Hypsos.
> 
> I couldn't here much difference with single ended and balanced HP outputs either probebly mostly heard the difference between the stock balanced cable vs tonekraft single ended.


I spent several years trying to get that magical leap in performance from the HD800S. Never happened. 

Two amps I tried were integrateds from Audionet (ss) and VTL (tube), just to give you an idea. Also used several different dacs, one being Hugo2 with mScaler.


----------



## krude

TheR0v3r said:


> I spent several years trying to get that magical leap in performance from the HD800S. Never happened.
> 
> Two amps I tried were integrateds from Audionet (ss) and VTL (tube), just to give you an idea. Also used several different dacs, one being Hugo2 with mScaler.


Hmm idk Im getting really good performance from Ferrum and HA6a. HD800 will never beat sets twice or 4 times the price on detail, but you can get it to a very good level from my experience.


----------



## TheR0v3r

krude said:


> Hmm idk Im getting really good performance from Ferrum and HA6a. HD800 will never beat sets twice or 4 times the price on detail, but you can get it to a very good level from my experience.


Agreed, your conclusion is absolutely correct.

In hindsight I was under the impression that the HD800S was a “TOTL” headphone. So I was chasing performance that just wasn’t there. 

It all comes down to having the right expectations.


----------



## krude (Jul 2, 2022)

TheR0v3r said:


> Agreed, your conclusion is absolutely correct.
> 
> In hindsight I was under the impression that the HD800S was a “TOTL” headphone. So I was chasing performance that just wasn’t there.
> 
> It all comes down to having the right expectations.


Once you hear 1266 TC on a totl chain you suddenly realise what detail means when you get slapped hard in the face with it 🙈🤣 HD800 is still a very accomplished set and is very unique in what it does.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

bluenight said:


> Mine Ferrum Oor and Hypsos have arrived. And i started listening to just Oor too see what Hypsos will add later on.
> 
> I am not to impressed with Oor on its own with HD800S Hugo2 as Dac. Sure it got a little more refinement and extra detail and resolution compared to Lake People RS 02 ($600) and THX 789 but I was expecting more difference. Its not bad though. My first impressions and things can change. Maybe burn in can be real but i dont have time to consider that. Hopefully it gets better with Hypsos.
> 
> I couldn't here much difference with single ended and balanced HP outputs either probebly mostly heard the difference between the stock balanced cable vs tonekraft single ended.


This doesn't really surprise me; the OOR was meant for inefficient planars. That's where you would hear the biggest difference.

For my HD800, I hear little difference between the OOR and the A90. For the same comparison with my susvara and LCD-5, the difference is much more noticable.


----------



## bluenight

TheR0v3r said:


> I spent several years trying to get that magical leap in performance from the HD800S. Never happened.
> 
> Two amps I tried were integrateds from Audionet (ss) and VTL (tube), just to give you an idea. Also used several different dacs, one being Hugo2 with mScaler.


I was more impressed with Sennhesiser HDV 820 - HD800S- Hugo2 with better resolution texture and technical ability imo with fuller vocals . Maybe not that surprising because they where made for each others.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Jul 2, 2022)

bluenight said:


> I was more impressed with Sennhesiser HDV 820 - HD800S- Hugo2 with better resolution texture and technical ability imo with fuller vocals . Maybe not that surprising because they where made for each others.



For a lot of headphone, the pairing of amps is more important. The HDV 820 is a nice piece of gear that is well built, and for one purpose that is for the HD800. While the OOR is built with a slightly warmth and natural tuning and many have found success with planar headphones that requires a stronger current. At these high level of gear, personal preference and synergy plays a larger role than the raw cost of equipment. It is not always the more expensive the better it is at $3000 dollars upwards. Some may prefer tubes some may prefer Solid state. 

Which ever combinations allows you to put your headphone on your head the longest wins. Simple as that.


----------



## bluenight

Does anyone else managed to dim the FE light to off completely or did it break on Oor?

I unplugged it and moved it to a place with better ventilation because it got quite hot i noticed. I think the first time i powered it on i had the brightness setting as low as i could go also but it was lit then.

Brightness completely off if that's normal might be quiter for the electronics also.

Now playing Sisters of mercy - Some girls wander by mistake. I've been enjoying.


----------



## TheR0v3r

bluenight said:


> I was more impressed with Sennhesiser HDV 820 - HD800S- Hugo2 with better resolution texture and technical ability imo with fuller vocals . Maybe not that surprising because they where made for each others.


That seems very reasonable, to use an amp and headphone made for each other. 

And a much smarter approach than the one I chose. Live and learn.


----------



## ozziegurkan

Has anyone played with the output voltage on Hypsos for OOR? I’m running it at 28 volts right now. Listening through Sus. I’m not sure I can hear the difference between 24 and 28 volts.


----------



## jlbrach

krude said:


> Once you hear 1266 TC on a totl chain you suddenly realise what detail means when you get slapped hard in the face with it 🙈🤣 HD800 is still a very accomplished set and is very unique in what it does.


try the sr1a is detail is important to you..remarkable


----------



## atya35mm

ozziegurkan said:


> Has anyone played with the output voltage on Hypsos for OOR? I’m running it at 28 volts right now. Listening through Sus. I’m not sure I can hear the difference between 24 and 28 volts.


Try running at 22 volts and compare vs 26 or 28. I hear a noticable difference where the Susvara sound very laidback and relax at 22 with bigger soundstage, but also can get a bit diffused, sound is more focused as voltage get higher and becomes relatively fatiguing at higher voltages like 28. Just my experience. I settled at 26 for a while but npw going back to 24 to try it out again.


----------



## Delta9K (Jul 3, 2022)

ozziegurkan said:


> Has anyone played with the output voltage on Hypsos for OOR?


I experimented with different voltages. With my setup, I found that higher I went in voltage the more analytical the Oor sounded. Lowering the voltage added body and improved bass extension and impact but the nominal 24v for my setup sounds the best with great technical abilities and a pleasing tone and timber that is very believable. So that is where I leave it. Experiment for your self, there is no right or wrong just what sounds best with your system to your ears. I would recommend that you give each setting 5-7 days and not just doing a quick A/B. Sometimes it can take a bit to pick up on subtle nuances.


----------



## Gavin C4

bluenight said:


> Mine Ferrum Oor and Hypsos have arrived. And i started listening to just Oor too see what Hypsos will add later on.
> 
> I am not to impressed with Oor on its own with HD800S Hugo2 as Dac. Sure it got a little more refinement and extra detail and resolution compared to Lake People RS 02 ($600) and THX 789 but I was expecting more difference. Its not bad though. My first impressions and things can change. Maybe burn in can be real but i dont have time to consider that. Hopefully it gets better with Hypsos.
> 
> I couldn't here much difference with single ended and balanced HP outputs either probebly mostly heard the difference between the stock balanced cable vs tonekraft single ended.



Let the OOR to warm up before usage, it will have a fuller and punchier bass. It is really obvious with the Utopia and Susvara. Not really sure will it have the same effect on the HD800S as the bass punch and slam is not its best area. But generally, let the OOR warm-up will gives you a fuller presentation.


----------



## bluenight

ozziegurkan said:


> Has anyone played with the output voltage on Hypsos for OOR?


Is 24 Volt the default Voltage? 
Its not like changing the volume?

I Haven't added Hypsos yet.


----------



## bluenight

Gavin C4 said:


> Let the OOR to warm up before usage, it will have a fuller and punchier bass. It is really obvious with the Utopia and Susvara. Not really sure will it have the same effect on the HD800S as the bass punch and slam is not its best area. But generally, let the OOR warm-up will gives you a fuller presentation.


How long have you noticed it takes. 15-30min?


----------



## krude (Jul 3, 2022)

bluenight said:


> I was more impressed with Sennhesiser HDV 820 - HD800S- Hugo2 with better resolution texture and technical ability imo with fuller vocals . Maybe not that surprising because they where made for each others.


What are you running for DAC? I took out my old HD800 today to see how they hold up on my stack against the big boys and holy hell, for rock / metal and things that don't require loads of bass (I still give it +4db in the sub region to have a bit more body) they have an amazing presentation on Ferrum, single ended, stock cable, middle gain, about 1pm for full blast. The clarity and naturalness, effortlessness of detail is out of this world, especially the dynamics between mids and treble. Smooth as you'd like with micro detail galore. When it comes to spacious presentation of midrange and treble they hold up to the best 100% ... and obv you don't get those for bass


----------



## Delta9K (Jul 3, 2022)

bluenight said:


> Is 24 Volt the default Voltage?


Yes, it is for the OOR. Using the Hypsos and selecting Oor from the list of devices in the configuration menu it chooses 24v. Also yes, you can adjust the voltage manually if desired.


----------



## bluenight

krude said:


> What are you running for DAC? I took out my old HD800 today to see how they hold up on my stack against the big boys and holy hell, for rock / metal and things that don't require loads of bass (I still give it +4db in the sub region to have a bit more body) they have an amazing presentation on Ferrum, single ended, stock cable, middle gain, about 1pm for full blast. The clarity and naturalness, effortlessness of detail is out of this world, especially the dynamics between mids and treble. Smooth as you'd like with micro detail galore. When it comes to spacious presentation of midrange and treble they hold up to the best 100% ... and obv you don't get those for bass


With Oor on its own. 
I have been finding it dry and lacking in bass with the single ended cable but i think i have noticed fuller sound with more refinement with balanced stock cable. I think Hugo2 internal amp has more satisfying bass on its own vs Oor Single ended output. 

You had that experience with Oor + Hypsos? Maybe Hypsos will set things right. You dont have balanced cable for HD800 that's why you use single ended output? 

I use Hugo2 as dac. I have much to find out on this amp sound still. Its a work in progress. I will first use single ended for some days and then balanced output, Then add Hypsos.


----------



## krude

bluenight said:


> With Oor on its own.
> I have been finding it dry and lacking in bass with the single ended cable but i think i have noticed fuller sound with more refinement with balanced stock cable. I think Hugo2 internal amp has more satisfying bass on its own vs Oor Single ended output.
> 
> You had that experience with Oor + Hypsos? Maybe Hypsos will set things right. You dont have balanced cable for HD800 that's why you use single ended output?
> ...


Dry and lacking bass is not what anyone I know would say about Oor, especiall against Hugo 2 (not TT right?), which is rather dry and analytical. I don't have Hugo 2 anymore to compare but from memory ran in Oor with Hypsos should be a lot fuller sounding without losing any detail.

It's going to be interesting to see your impressions running with Hypsos using the Ferrum interlink. When I tested it with and without Hypsos it sounded horrible without Hypsos.

Yeah I don't have a balanced cable for my HD800 ... might get one


----------



## chesebert

bluenight said:


> With Oor on its own.
> I have been finding it dry and lacking in bass with the single ended cable but i think i have noticed fuller sound with more refinement with balanced stock cable. I think Hugo2 internal amp has more satisfying bass on its own vs Oor Single ended output.
> 
> You had that experience with Oor + Hypsos? Maybe Hypsos will set things right. You dont have balanced cable for HD800 that's why you use single ended output?
> ...


Why are you only using half the amp when you have the whole thing (I consider external PSU an integral part of the amp and the PSU should never have been sold separately)?


----------



## bluenight

chesebert said:


> Why are you only using half the amp when you have the whole thing (I consider external PSU an integral part of the amp and the PSU should never have been sold separately)?


Because i want to first hear Oor on its own then connect Hypsos to hear the difference what it adds. Only out of curiosity.


----------



## chesebert

bluenight said:


> Because i want to first hear Oor on its own then connect Hypsos to hear the difference what it adds. Only out of curiosity.


Some symptoms of an amp with weak power supply is dry, lean, closed in, strained, graininess, etc. Just use the whole thing together as they were meant to be sold and used.


----------



## Gavin C4

Those who are using the Hypsos OOR stack, remember to upgrade the Hypsos to the latest firm ware version 1.5. After upgrade and let it running and listening for few days, I have noticed that this new firmware has improvements to the sound quality. I can hear the details and micro details even clearly. The sound stage has slightly improved, wider and deeper. I guess Ferrum is listening to us here. This is a wonderful Firmware version.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

Gavin C4 said:


> Those who are using the Hypsos OOR stack, remember to upgrade the Hypsos to the latest firm ware version 1.5. After upgrade and let it running and listening for few days, I have noticed that this new firmware has improvements to the sound quality. I can hear the details and micro details even clearly. The sound stage has slightly improved, wider and deeper. I guess Ferrum is listening to us here. This is a wonderful Firmware version.


According to the change log, they haven't updated anything in the signal path since last year. Do you know what your previous version was?


----------



## Gavin C4

Previous 1.2, just update to latest 1.5 and listen for yourself. It’s free any ways , you paid for it when you purchased the Hypsos. It is really an improvement to listening experience.


----------



## EMINENT (Jul 3, 2022)

chargedcapacitor said:


> According to the change log, they haven't updated anything in the signal path since last year. Do you know what your previous version was?



Just updated but haven't listened yet. Could've left this one alone.


From the README.txt



> Firmware revision history:
> v1.5.0 / 2022-04-27
> - added support for OEM version
> - added support for Korean version
> ...


----------



## SlothRock

Do you need to directly connect the Hypsos to update it or would it work by passthru from the DAC by chance? I'm guessing direct connection


----------



## Delta9K

SlothRock said:


> Do you need to directly connect the Hypsos to update it or would it work by passthru from the DAC by chance? I'm guessing direct connection


You will need to connect from your pc to the usb port on the Hypsos  It is a micro usb on the Hypsos so you may need to get a cable first.


----------



## AudioProm

Hi all, I'm a new Oor and Hypsos owner here. I got mine couple weeks ago and it was running on firmware ver. 1.4 which is not listed in the change log. In any case, the firmware update process is pretty straight forward. I swear I can hear the sonic improvement @Gavin C4 mentioned but I'm also taking account this could just be a placebo effect taking place the moment I read his post . Either way, I have no complaint. Enjoying the combo so far.


----------



## bluenight (Jul 4, 2022)

Gavin C4 said:


> Those who are using the Hypsos OOR stack, remember to upgrade the Hypsos to the latest firm ware version 1.5. After upgrade and let it running and listening for few days, I have noticed that this new firmware has improvements to the sound quality. I can hear the details and micro details even clearly. The sound stage has slightly improved, wider and deeper. I guess Ferrum is listening to us here. This is a wonderful Firmware version.


I thought only the FW updated compitable devices list for default voltages. Maybe placebo that your hearing?

Can i uppgrade from a smartphone? I have one with micro usb cable


----------



## EMINENT

bluenight said:


> I thought only the FW updated compitable devices list for default voltages. Maybe placebo that your hearing?
> 
> Can i uppgrade from a smartphone?



You have to do it from Windows or Mac Installer tool.


----------



## bluenight

EMINENT said:


> You have to do it from Windows or Mac Installer tool.


And that can't be downloaded to android smartphone?


----------



## EMINENT

bluenight said:


> And that can't be downloaded to android smartphone?



Sure, but how do you plan to install a Windows app on Android?


----------



## AudioProm

bluenight said:


> I thought only the FW updated compitable devices list for default voltages. Maybe placebo that your hearing?


Here's the thing with firmware update, sometimes not every change/improvement made it to the change notes. They often left out because of several reasons:
1. It's often challenging to translate development bug/fixes to a comprehensible description for the general public.
2. Company would normally avoid listing sonic change/alteration. The perceived result could upset some customers whether they think of it as improvement or just a minor alteration.
3. Developers don't want to spend the time and effort to list every single minor changes which they don't think it would directly affect the users.

There are many other reasons but these are normally the main reasons why they intentionally left them out from the change notes.


----------



## bluenight

So does anyone agree with me that Single Ended output lacks bass? Very large focus on the midrange and treble and very dry imo. Big disappointment there at this price point with Oor on its own. I mean THX 789 in SE I liked more and Hugo2 internal amp. Maybe this amp has just focused on the truly balanced approach. Why even add a SE output if its this weak, for iems only? 400mw should be enough for HD800S so it must be something else than power issue.  

Is that your experience even when added Hypsos in single ended output ? Hopefully Hypsos is the remedy. 

I assume most use the balanced output. Is your experience in balanced that this amp lacks bass? 

As i said I will get there in a few days trying every output without and with hypsos? 

Want to know your experience.


----------



## bluenight (Jul 4, 2022)

Could just be a synergy thing with HD800S. But i would guess its lean with every HP then. Have listened to the balanced output today and havent been good synergy there either. A little to bright and bass lacking imo.

From Headfonia review
"And as a result I have mixed feelings with these headphones. The combos are not bad, but I have heard the Sennheiser headphones sound better. I especially have this feeling with the HD800S and the HD660S. The combo with the original HD800 is actually quite nice, especially in high gain where the bass and vocals are impressive. But all-in-all I don’t like the Senn & OOR combo as much as the other combos in this review".


----------



## MisterButthead (Jul 4, 2022)

bluenight said:


> Could just be a synergy thing with HD800S. But i would guess its lean with every HP then. Have listened to the balanced output today and havent been good synergy there either. A little to bright and bass lacking imo.


I think the HD800S sings when I use them balanced from the Hypsos + Oor.  The bass is just right for my tastes along with the excellent soundstage and treble (without being sibilant or fatiguing). Although the subbass is a tad lacking, it's not typically what I enjoy anyways.  Over the past week, I've come to the conclusion I actually prefer the H800S over the Utopia when listening with the Oor.

It's a bummer not everyone has the same enjoyment with the pairing.


----------



## Gavin C4

With the HD800 high ohm resistance, it would really prefer it using the XLR output no matter with or without the hypsos. The single end simply does not have enough power and being dry and lifeless is what you will describe your music when you encounter such issue. 

Maybe you will find success on the SE output with some easier to drive headphones or IEMs.


----------



## SlothRock

Now that I've compared both the Burson GT & Ferrum OOR and decided to keep the OOR, I wanted to write a bit about the comparison and why I went the direction I did.

First and foremost, the sound of both of these amps is absolutely fantastic. Depending on what you're looking for, you legitimately can't go wrong with either. I enjoyed both for different reasons. The Burson felt more like a solid state amp emulating a tube amp than the OOR did. Burson had more exaggerated bass than the OOR, but wasn't as precise on the same token. The Burson also feels like it has more of a visceral sound than the OOR (SS2590 and SIL 994 op amps specifically for this). On the opposite side, I feel like the OOR was more neutral ,more true-to-tone and had a precision that could not be matched by the Burson. Additionally, I felt the OOR excelled more relative to micro details but this was very, very close. I also like the fact that it relaxes the high frequencies just enough so you're never fatigued regardless of the headphone you're using. Sure, the HD800S would likely still fair better on a tube amp but I feel like the OOR is a fantastic SS solution even for headphones with some peaky treble. 

On the controls side, the OOR wins hands down for me. For volume control, the Burson was more annoying to control in a couple different ways. First was the fact you need to spin the volume quite a few times for it to actually raise the volume up. While I appreciate the volume precision, it's not really needed to be as precise as it is on the Burson and ends up being more annoying than helpful. Additionally, I always felt like the Burson was pretty loud. There would be times on medium gain that I'd need to go as low as volume 1 - 5 and it still felt kinda loud. Volume on the OOR was much more responsive and the volume levels feel a lot more manageable. 

Additionally, I used both the OOR & GT's preamps for my KH120 studio monitors as well as for my headphones. On the GT, it was tedious needing to use the menu system to switch from the headphone output to the preamp output. This is amplified by the fact that the scroll wheel is so sensitive that it will accidentally scroll to the wrong option every now and again and make you spend extra time to switch outputs. On the OOR, it's seamless. Both the headphone and preamp outputs work at the same time so you have absolutely 0 fuss when you want to switch up how you're listening to music.

From a sound perspective, it was quite a difficult decision for me. I like different pieces of both the GT and the OOR. Ultimately, because I already have a tube amp, I decided I wanted a more neutral and exact flavoring so that my two amps would have more variety in how I decide to listen. From a controls perspective, the OOR wins hands down and might have been the ultimate nail in the coffin for the GT. 

Both absolutely fantastic amps and you can't go wrong with either. Hopefully if you're deciding between these two amps this review helps a bit


----------



## 801evan

801evan said:


> 800/800s is tuned headphone. It needs 40ohms output impedance


----------



## ozziegurkan

SlothRock said:


> Now that I've compared both the Burson GT & Ferrum OOR and decided to keep the OOR, I wanted to write a bit about the comparison and why I went the direction I did.
> 
> First and foremost, the sound of both of these amps is absolutely fantastic. Depending on what you're looking for, you legitimately can't go wrong with either. I enjoyed both for different reasons. The Burson felt more like a solid state amp emulating a tube amp than the OOR did. Burson had more exaggerated bass than the OOR, but wasn't as precise on the same token. The Burson also feels like it has more of a visceral sound than the OOR (SS2590 and SIL 994 op amps specifically for this). On the opposite side, I feel like the OOR was more neutral ,more true-to-tone and had a precision that could not be matched by the Burson. Additionally, I felt the OOR excelled more relative to micro details but this was very, very close. I also like the fact that it relaxes the high frequencies just enough so you're never fatigued regardless of the headphone you're using. Sure, the HD800S would likely still fair better on a tube amp but I feel like the OOR is a fantastic SS solution even for headphones with some peaky treble.
> 
> ...


I have both as well and enjoy what each offers like you mentioned. Ultimately, if you want to keep only one, that was a great decision. For me, I’m going to keep both as I am really enjoying the opamp rolling, ability to trigger from my Hypsos, gorgeous volume display, ability to add a sub later for fun, have four inputs, and listen to electronic music with serious slam. I do agree though the volume and input control could have been done much better. Having a remote volume control though is a big deal for my setup and  OOR was a clear miss because it won’t end up on my hifi rack. So, it will be an outcast under my desk. 

For opamp rolling, how did you have the configuration?


----------



## SlothRock

ozziegurkan said:


> I have both as well and enjoy what each offers like you mentioned. Ultimately, if you want to keep only one, that was a great decision. For me, I’m going to keep both as I am really enjoying the opamp rolling, ability to trigger from my Hypsos, gorgeous volume display, ability to add a sub later for fun, have four inputs, and listen to electronic music with serious slam. I do agree though the volume and input control could have been done much better. Having a remote volume control though is a big deal for my setup and  OOR was a clear miss because it won’t end up on my hifi rack. So, it will be an outcast under my desk.
> 
> For opamp rolling, how did you have the configuration?



Oh ya, I can 100% see a use case for keeping both of them! They both offer a very different sound signature. I am using my amps/dac on my computer desk so I have to be very limited in my choices and gotta keep it to either one SS and one tube amp or two of either amp type. Right now, I'm choosing to do one of each. I also didn't take the remote into account because of my proximity to both amps so it wasn't something I was using very much. Definitely a big control positive to the GT for folks that are sitting farther away and want to control with a remote since the OOR doesn't offer that.

I put the SS22590 in the volume control buffer stage and the SIL 994 in the input buffer stage. Loved the combo - definitely preferred it to stock V6 for everything.


----------



## ozziegurkan

SlothRock said:


> Oh ya, I can 100% see a use case for keeping both of them! They both offer a very different sound signature. I am using my amps/dac on my computer desk so I have to be very limited in my choices and gotta keep it to either one SS and one tube amp or two of either amp type. Right now, I'm choosing to do one of each. I also didn't take the remote into account because of my proximity to both amps so it wasn't something I was using very much. Definitely a big control positive to the GT for folks that are sitting farther away and want to control with a remote since the OOR doesn't offer that.
> 
> I put the SS22590 in the volume control buffer stage and the SIL 994 in the input buffer stage. Loved the combo - definitely preferred it to stock V6 for everything.


Cool, I’m going to try that now. I had put the 2590s in the input stage. They sound really great right now.


----------



## krude (Jul 5, 2022)

SlothRock said:


> Now that I've compared both the Burson GT & Ferrum OOR and decided to keep the OOR, I wanted to write a bit about the comparison and why I went the direction I did.
> 
> First and foremost, the sound of both of these amps is absolutely fantastic. Depending on what you're looking for, you legitimately can't go wrong with either. I enjoyed both for different reasons. The Burson felt more like a solid state amp emulating a tube amp than the OOR did. Burson had more exaggerated bass than the OOR, but wasn't as precise on the same token. The Burson also feels like it has more of a visceral sound than the OOR (SS2590 and SIL 994 op amps specifically for this). On the opposite side, I feel like the OOR was more neutral ,more true-to-tone and had a precision that could not be matched by the Burson. Additionally, I felt the OOR excelled more relative to micro details but this was very, very close. I also like the fact that it relaxes the high frequencies just enough so you're never fatigued regardless of the headphone you're using. Sure, the HD800S would likely still fair better on a tube amp but I feel like the OOR is a fantastic SS solution even for headphones with some peaky treble.
> 
> ...


Very interesting. On one hand I understand "tube sound" to be a lot more than just FR etc. but I think I understand your comparison. I've been rolling tubes for my HA6a and I can get it to match and exceed the Soloist GT in most if not all areas with the right tube combination. On the other hand I also wouldn't say that Oor sounds like a typical SS amp (maybe I haven't heard enough), but I could never match it's clarity and voicing with the HA6a. So I guess from that perspective your comparison is indeed very valid ... and the more I think about it the more I think you're right with Burson going for a certain type od tubey sound / feel of their amps. 

In the same scenario I made the same choice for pretty much the same reasons.


----------



## bluenight

Time to connect Hypsos to Oor today. 

When stacking what should be on top. What gets hottest? Hottest need the best ventilation. I do find Oor on its own gets very warm.


----------



## krude

bluenight said:


> Time to connect Hypsos to Oor today.
> 
> When stacking what should be on top. What gets hottest? Hottest need the best ventilation. I do find Oor on its own gets very warm.


Usually Hypsos on the bottom when stacking. For best results Hypsos on the left.


----------



## AudioProm

Oor is running hotter than Hypsos. I used to have them stacked but changed it to side by side now for better air circulation.


----------



## bluenight

Anyway i cant connect them. Seems the cable is faulty or the connectors. I tried for 30 minutes and tried with force nothing worked. It doesent go all the way in and sits really loose.

Are there any technics to be used or should it connect easy without using to much force. I matched so the red dots was aligned. Neither Oor or Hypsos could connect properly so maybe faulty cable.


----------



## bluenight

Other people have reported on this problem?


----------



## sparkylarky

bluenight said:


> Time to connect Hypsos to Oor today.
> 
> When stacking what should be on top. What gets hottest? Hottest need the best ventilation. I do find Oor on its own gets very warm.


My Oor can get very hot but the Hypsos never does.
I have them side by side on a separate shelf.


----------



## bluenight

The  FPL cable only goes in to where it says WEIPU on the contact of Hypsos and Oor.


----------



## krude

bluenight said:


> The  FPL cable only goes in to where it says WEIPU on the contact of Hypsos and Oor.


----------



## SlothRock

@bluenight Where are you having issues with the power? I was also confused at first since I thought both the OOR & Hypsos would have that 4 pin connector on them but they don't. The OOR I believe you would plug in a regular power plug like the gold one here:





Then the 4 pin goes into the Hypsos. I don't have them in front of me so my instructions could be backwards btw


----------



## chesebert

bluenight said:


> The  FPL cable only goes in to where it says WEIPU on the contact of Hypsos and Oor.


did you already bent the pins? I would check that first.


----------



## bluenight (Jul 5, 2022)

@SlothRock  Both Oor and Hypsos have 4 pin DC connectors on the back. See Krudes picture.

This cable connects them.
https://ferrum.audio/product/ferrum-power-link-dc-power-cord/

@krude Now i see how far they should go in 👍

@chesebert i dont think they are bent. But it looks like an rising in side the ring of the connectors that might be in the way?


----------



## bluenight (Jul 5, 2022)

If when adding Hypsos fixes the harsh treble i hear and have better sibilance control and more sub bass with HD800S . Then it might be worth keeping.

Maybe i will never find out.



I find particularly when watching movies that vocals are sibilant and the treble can be brutal. I guess that's what they mean with brutally honest, streamed netflix content and the like might not have the best bitrate and recorded quality.


----------



## SlothRock

Ahh ok my Hypsos cable was the one I showed you above. Not 4 pin to 4 pin but works the same none the less.


----------



## SlothRock (Jul 5, 2022)

bluenight said:


> If when adding Hypsos fixes the harsh treble i hear and have better sibilance control and more sub bass with HD800S . Then it might be worth keeping.
> 
> Maybe i will never find out.
> 
> ...



Let us know if this combo helps to tame the HD800S treble. If not, you honestly might be better served with a darker tube amp. It will likely impact the sound to a greater degree since, in my opinion, the Ferrum OOR & Hypsos are largely neutral. There's a flavoring for sure but not as much as can be had by a tube amp


----------



## tawmizzzz

IMO, the Hypsos should definitely help add some body, life/dynamics, and even touch of smoothness to the OOR. But I also agree that it has better synergy with planars like LCD5 and Susvara rather than the HD800s. HD800s sounded more balanced, musical and lush from the Dragon hybrid tube AMP to my ears.


----------



## AudioProm

I found it easier to insert the connector in if I pull the locking ring (it's spring loaded).


----------



## bluenight

I dident know anything about that i will try


----------



## bluenight (Jul 6, 2022)

So i need to pull it back? Then insert? Its a moving part?

Otherwise if this will not work i think theres a metal rising round the metal ring surrounding the 4 pins that may be in the way when inserting. Or is that normal?


----------



## EMINENT

bluenight said:


> So i need to pull it back? Then insert? Its a moving part?
> 
> Otherwise if this will not work i think theres a metal rising round the metal ring surrounding the 4 pins that may be in the way when inserting. Or is that normal?


If you push hard enough it will latch by itself. Just be sure the notch is facing up and centered before.


----------



## AudioProm

bluenight said:


> So i need to pull it back? Then insert? Its a moving part?
> 
> Otherwise if this will not work i think theres a metal rising round the metal ring surrounding the 4 pins that may be in the way when inserting. Or is that normal?







If you are referring to that in the picture, then it's normal. Yes, the ring is a moving part.


----------



## bluenight

It worked now but it was still very hard to get it all the way in. I needed to push it in fast and determined to get past the round metal balls. 

Thanks for help.


----------



## XERO1

bluenight said:


> It worked now but it was still very hard to get it all the way in. I needed to push it in fast and determined to get past the round metal balls.


----------



## krude

XERO1 said:


>





random gaming reference 🤣


----------



## Gavin C4

bluenight said:


> It worked now but it was still very hard to get it all the way in. I needed to push it in fast and determined to get past the round metal balls.
> 
> Thanks for help.



Nice that you finally made successfully made it. Well you would rarely unplug the cable. As long as you are settled, it will stay in forever. You can enjoy the full performance of the Ferrum stack. Enjoy your music before playing around with power amp mode and voltage.


----------



## chesebert

Gavin C4 said:


> Nice that you finally made successfully made it. Well you would rarely unplug the cable. As long as you are settled, it will stay in forever. You can enjoy the full performance of the Ferrum stack. Enjoy your music before playing around with power amp mode and voltage.


@bluenight I agree. Try not to pull out prematurely


----------



## bluenight (Jul 8, 2022)

Yes Hypsos did add some dynamics i think. But still to bright and peaky treble for my taste i wish there was a little more bass also with HD800S . I think i will send it back and try tube amp Woo audio WA2 or maybe or Feliks Euforia 20th anniversary edition or cayin-ha-300  but high power consumption on that one on 185W i dont like.


----------



## krude

bluenight said:


> Yes Hypsos did add some dynamics i think. But still to bright and peaky treble for my taste i wish there was a little more bass also with HD800S . I think i will send it back and try tube amp Woo audio WA2 or maybe or Feliks Euforia 20th anniversary edition or cayin-ha-300  but high power consumption on that one on 185W i dont like.


I would also point out that you're running Hugo 2 as a dac, which is know to have elevated upper mids, is prone to peaky treble and sounding lean, on top of not having a balanced out etc. When I was running this dac I thought Utopia is bass light and has a sharp and analytical presentation 🤣 🤷

If HD800 is your endgame, then by all means get a tube amp btw. It will not match Ferrum in terms of detail but will certainly allow you to achieve a more pleasing sound.


----------



## bluenight (Jul 8, 2022)

krude said:


> I would also point out that you're running Hugo 2 as a dac, which is know to have elevated upper mids, is prone to peaky treble and sounding lean, on top of not having a balanced out etc. When I was running this dac I thought Utopia is bass light and has a sharp and analytical presentation 🤣 🤷
> 
> If HD800 is your endgame, then by all means get a tube amp btw. It will not match Ferrum in terms of detail but will certainly allow you to achieve a more pleasing sound.


Yes i thought about that. Maybe i could tweak the sound with smooth dac and smooth cable. But i dident find Lake People RS 02 this bright with same setup. Also I think i heard some bass rhythms missing compared to Hugo2 internal amp something i never noticed on Lake People RS 02. On Strangers Things intro melody. So i dont think it digs deep enough. It digs deep in the treble region but i don't like the sound and tuning.


----------



## 801evan

krude said:


> I would also point out that you're running Hugo 2 as a dac, which is know to have elevated upper mids, is prone to peaky treble and sounding lean, on top of not having a balanced out etc. When I was running this dac I thought Utopia is bass light and has a sharp and analytical presentation 🤣 🤷


On usb in and not so good transport,yes. Zero issues on a good transport and toslink.


----------



## krude

801evan said:


> On usb in and not so good transport,yes. Zero issues on a good transport and toslink.


Could be, I only switched to toslink after getting the May. I would say toslink and using hf roll off filters could be a good idea. Also utilising Hugos volume control and switching Oor to power amp mode. And also it will relax the sound after burn in.

All that being said, tubes seem to be the way to go if you're looking for a more mellow and "bassy" HD800 experience. It will require a decent amp and a solid amout of tube rolling. 

... or switching to Elite or 1266 TC 🤣


----------



## 801evan

krude said:


> All that being said, tubes seem to be the way to go if you're looking for a more mellow and "bassy" HD800 experience


👇👇👇


801evan said:


> 800/800s is a tuned headphone. It needs 40ohms output impedance.


Should sound like a baby LCD4 when done so.


----------



## krude

801evan said:


> 👇👇👇


Oors pre amp out has exactly 40 Ohms I think. Worth trying 🤔


----------



## 801evan

krude said:


> Oors pre amp out has exactly 40 Ohms I think. Worth trying 🤔


Yes..I use pro iDSD line out as an exploit. Lol. Sounds wimpy on headphone out but it's a baby LCD4 on line out. Just try to not use adapters to make it happen for max experience.


----------



## krude (Jul 8, 2022)

801evan said:


> Yes..I use pro iDSD line out as an exploit. Lol. Sounds wimpy on headphone out but it's a baby LCD4 on line out. Just try to not use adapters to make it happen for max experience.


Ok, there's bass lift and mellowing out of the upper mids. This is on a cheap adapter, so I expect it would sharpen up a bit (in a good way) on a dedicated cable, probably silver for full effect. Yeah I can see this being an endgame potential for HD800 fans. I tried Susvara on pre out XLRs to get similar effect but I didn't like it that much, HD800 fares much better.

Still, it won't turn HD800 into a bassy set if anyone is wondering, but it balances it out.


----------



## 801evan (Jul 8, 2022)

krude said:


> Ok, there's bass lift and mellowing out of the upper mids. This is on a cheap adapter, so I expect it would sharpen up a bit (in a good way) on a dedicated cable, probably silver for full effect. Yeah I can see this being an endgame potential for HD800 fans. I tried Susvara on pre out XLRs to get similar effect but I didn't like it that much, HD800 fares much better.
> 
> Still, it won't turn HD800 into a bassy set if anyone is wondering, but it balances it out.


The bass was plump but not deep, but more importantly, it makes for a very balanced well-rounded sound as opposed to the claims of this wide soundstage presentation.

But that's the thing. Think it's difficult to pull off a deep sound off the 800s but Im not willing to invest on it further as it's too much of a commitment for the expected gains I can attain. But if it was 4 or 5 years ago, the experiment is more worth to pursue. It'll definitely go deeper when using thicker awg cables but the 800s plugs are a pain.


----------



## krude

801evan said:


> The bass was plump but not deep, but more importantly, it makes for a very balanced well-rounded sound as opposed to the claims of this wide soundstage presentation.
> 
> But that's the thing. Think it's difficult to pull off a deep sound off the 800s but Im not willing to invest on it further as it's too much of a commitment for the expected gains I can attain. But if it was 4 or 5 years ago, the experiment is more worth to pursue. It'll definitely go deeper when using thicker awg cables but the 800s plugs are a pain.


Yeah it's definitely balanced. I think it needs to be appreciated for what it is and it's strenghts, kinda like Susvara, although Susvaras drivers can produce any amount of bass with EQ so there's that, but it's not meant to 🤷 there are bassy / full sounding sets out there. Guess we just need the right tool for the job that's why most people end up with a few sets 😅


----------



## 801evan (Jul 8, 2022)

TBF, I failed AB-ing it with the lcd4. Lol. Coz I was on my phone waiting for it to settle then I lost track of what HP was on my head and thought it was the 4. That's how much I got used to the weight of the 4...or numb to it. It responds well to slower amps, like tube mode on the pro iDSD. Any faster and it gets out of sync. If you have it out on the OOR, it might be too fast, which means it has potential to improve vs your test today.


----------



## bluenight

801evan said:


> The bass was plump but not deep, but more importantly, it makes for a very balanced well-rounded sound as opposed to the claims of this wide soundstage presentation.
> 
> But that's the thing. Think it's difficult to pull off a deep sound off the 800s but Im not willing to invest on it further as it's too much of a commitment for the expected gains I can attain. But if it was 4 or 5 years ago, the experiment is more worth to pursue. It'll definitely go deeper when using thicker awg cables but the 800s plugs are a pain.


It can be a rabbit hole HP. When you dont get it right.


----------



## chesebert

bluenight said:


> Yes Hypsos did add some dynamics i think. But still to bright and peaky treble for my taste i wish there was a little more bass also with HD800S . I think i will send it back and try tube amp Woo audio WA2 or maybe or Feliks Euforia 20th anniversary edition or cayin-ha-300  but high power consumption on that one on 185W i dont like.


There is only so much you can do to tame the “face tweeter”. I would just EQ TBH.


----------



## 801evan

bluenight said:


> It can be a rabbit hole HP. When you dont get it right.


It's an exciting project to pull off but I have like a year of experiments already lined up as it is. Lol. I did try a 820 with minidsp calibration and it's one of the best sounding HP I heard at that time. The lexan resonance disappeared and it's only powered by an ifi iCan.


----------



## AudioProm

HD800S has always fascinate me since the beginning. The comfort and soundstage are very appealing but the lack of bass slam always dissuades me from it. Maybe someday!


----------



## Gavin C4

krude said:


> Could be, I only switched to toslink after getting the May. I would say toslink and using hf roll off filters could be a good idea. Also utilising Hugos volume control and switching Oor to power amp mode. And also it will relax the sound after burn in.
> 
> All that being said, tubes seem to be the way to go if you're looking for a more mellow and "bassy" HD800 experience. It will require a decent amp and a solid amout of tube rolling.
> 
> ... or switching to Elite or 1266 TC 🤣



Yup actually do agree. If the signature of the HD800 is just not your tastes, it is better off switching to a warmer or bassier planar. There are lots of alternatives. It is generally impossible to extremely expensive to change the frequency respond or tuning of the headphone using up front gear including tube preamp. It is just not worth it at your stage. Money is better spend upgrading the headphone itself.

I know there are enthusiast who are using primavera amp and pre or Viva amps to ultimatly make the HD800 to sound euphonic. Unless you are on uncaped budget, you could take an easier route.

 But what amps are you previously using with the HD800? Did you find any success before moving to the OOR?
@bluenight


----------



## duranxv

For those of you who've used the OOR as a preamp, does it bypass the volume knob and act as a passive pre?  Any benefit to putting it in bypass mode as well, and does changing the gain setting make any difference in preamp mode?


----------



## 801evan

I mean logically Sennheiser and Axel aren't that much of a novice to release a flagship that sounds thin, has an artificially wide soundstage and is hard to drive and on that price range and packaging. A lot of people are just driving it wrong and giving bad advice by suggesting expensive amps.


----------



## Gavin C4

duranxv said:


> For those of you who've used the OOR as a preamp, does it bypass the volume knob and act as a passive pre?  Any benefit to putting it in bypass mode as well, and does changing the gain setting make any difference in preamp mode?



By pass the volume nob, you cannot control the volume and the gain is set as 0 gain even if you turned the gain nob up or down it has no effect.


----------



## bluenight (Jul 9, 2022)

AudioProm said:


> HD800S has always fascinate me since the beginning. The comfort and soundstage are very appealing but the lack of bass slam always dissuades me from it. Maybe someday!


@Gavin C4 
I did not have an problem with Bass on it Lake People RS 02 or THX 789 but was still peaky at louder volumes. I think something like the V226 or  V280/1 will give it much bass. I am not really a bass head though but it was satisfying. So its all relative. Lake People RS 02 was fuller sounding then THX 789.


----------



## AudioProm

bluenight said:


> I did not have an problem with Bass on it Lake People RS 02 or THX 789 but was still peaky at louder volumes. I think something like the V226 or V280/1 will give it much bass. I am not really a bass head though. So its all relative. Lake People RS 02 was fuller sounding then THX 789.


I agree, it's all relative. I like bits of everything (unfortunately), I like all different flavors from hard hitting bass all the way up to up in your face detail headphones. It all depends on the kind of music I listened to at any given time. I'm still in that part of journey trying to find a good balance between what I truly value(s) in sound/comfort and what I'm willing to given up for it.


----------



## TheR0v3r

Anyone with experience using Audeze Lcd-4 with Ferrum Oor? Positives and negatives?


----------



## adrianm

GoldenOne said:


> In regards to the discussion regarding 'distortion' and bypass mode on the OOR and whether you should use it, the OOR does indeed perform slightly better in bypass mode.
> 
> If we look at a realistic headphone listening level of about 700mv, here's what we get:
> 
> ...


I have one curiosity here. Last 2 images are Dave in pre mode, however I assume the first 2 images are not Dave, as you mention 4v in (Dave is 6v) , so it's not really apples to apples as far as I can tell. Do you have any measurements with Dave + Oor not in Bypass?


----------



## EMINENT

GoldenOne said:


> In regards to the discussion regarding 'distortion' and bypass mode on the OOR and whether you should use it, the OOR does indeed perform slightly better in bypass mode.
> 
> If we look at a realistic headphone listening level of about 700mv, here's what we get:
> 
> ...


What is the amount of difference that you have found when using DSP? For example, X26 Pro volume with Oor at max medium or high gain.


----------



## bluenight

@AudioProm i see you have the Vmv D2 Dac. Any good? 

How does it pair with Ferrum combo? I read comments and seen soundnews YouTube review of it saying its a very smooth dac no harshness. Could be what i need. 

Also is Qutest Dac still better? I have Hugo2.


----------



## krude (Jul 10, 2022)

bluenight said:


> @AudioProm i see you have the Vmv D2 Dac. Any good?
> 
> How does it pair with Ferrum combo? I read comments and seen soundnews YouTube review of it saying its a very smooth dac no harshness. Could be what i need.
> 
> Also is Qutest Dac still better? I have Hugo2.


When I've been looking for Hugo 2 upgrade I came to a conclusion that Qutest is a poor mans version of Hugo 2 as you need a decent PSU upgrade to even get it on par with Hugo 2 that runs off batteries exclusively, therefore zero power issues. Ofc that was only the result of research, I haven't done a / b testing and I may be wrong.

Try red filter and using toslink with Hugo 2. Also get a 2xlr or 4pin xlr adapter cable and plug into the 40 ohm pre output on the Oor. I think doing all of the above might take you where you want to be. Also consider EQ and adding 2 to 4 db in the sub bass region but only after you tried the above and "you are almost there". Good luck.


----------



## AudioProm

bluenight said:


> @AudioProm i see you have the Vmv D2 Dac. Any good?
> 
> How does it pair with Ferrum combo? I read comments and seen soundnews YouTube review of it saying its a very smooth dac no harshness. Could be what i need.
> 
> Also is Qutest Dac still better? I have Hugo2.



VMV D2 is better than Qutest (ifi ipower2) in terms of soundstage, 3D imaging, and detail. The pairing with Ferrum combo has been fantastic for Arya Stealth. No harshness with it but keep in mind, Arya Stealth itself is known to be quite smooth in the upper mid frequency so that may be playing a bigger role than the dac+amp combo. I don't know how it would sound with HD800S but I recommend EQing down this region to see if it cause the harshness you're hearing. Not necessarily to use EQ for your daily listening but to find out the source of the issue. Once you found the underlying problem, then you can try to find a dac/amp that can alleviate it or maybe even reassessment of the whole chain from top (headphones) to bottom (amp-dac-etc.). For example, if you have to EQ 2K-4K region down by -5db to fix the harshness, it is probably better to find a different headphones than trying to find a different DAC that can do that for you. That number is exaggerated of course but I hope you understand the point of it. This is just my personal opinion of course. Good luck!


----------



## Gavin C4

krude said:


> When I've been looking for Hugo 2 upgrade I came to a conclusion that Qutest is a poor mans version of Hugo 2 as you need a decent PSU upgrade to even get it on par with Hugo 2 that runs off batteries exclusively, therefore zero power issues. Ofc that was only the result of research, I haven't done a / b testing and I may be wrong.
> 
> Try red filter and using toslink with Hugo 2. Also get a 2xlr or 4pin xlr adapter cable and plug into the 40 ohm pre output on the Oor. I think doing all of the above might take you where you want to be. Also consider EQ and adding 2 to 4 db in the sub bass region but only after you tried the above and "you are almost there". Good luck.



Use Chord Quest, you will need a second Hypsos to power that up.  Power makes a whole lot of difference.


----------



## 801evan

Gavin C4 said:


> Use Chord Quest, you will need a second Hypsos to power that up.  Power makes a whole lot of difference.


Battery still cleaner than hypsos.


----------



## bluenight

801evan said:


> Battery still cleaner than hypsos.


I can't use my best rca cables with Hugo2 to small holes. That's the worst thing about it imo.


----------



## bluenight

AudioProm said:


> VMV D2 is better than Qutest (ifi ipower2) in terms of soundstage, 3D imaging, and detail. The pairing with Ferrum combo has been fantastic for Arya Stealth. No harshness with it but keep in mind, Arya Stealth itself is known to be quite smooth in the upper mid frequency so that may be playing a bigger role than the dac+amp combo.


Do you agree that it changes sound alot with different Dacs?


----------



## AudioProm

bluenight said:


> Do you agree that it changes sound alot with different Dacs?


The changes are more prominent when I went from Bifrost2(SE) to Qutest compared to- from Qutest to VMV D2(SE).


----------



## Tom75

AudioProm said:


> The changes are more prominent when I went from Bifrost2(SE) to Qutest compared to- from Qutest to VMV D2(SE).


Would be interesting to compare it with a Holo Spring2 or 3KTE..


----------



## AudioProm

I was pretty close to pull the trigger on 3KTE but the size of the chassis makes it less ideal for my desktop setup and also
the lack of upscaling is a big question mark for me. If I ever get close to that level, I think I'm going straight to the May or a Wavelight.


----------



## krude

AudioProm said:


> I was pretty close to pull the trigger on 3KTE but the size of the chassis makes it less ideal for my desktop setup and also
> the lack of upscaling is a big question mark for me. If I ever get close to that level, I think I'm going straight to the May or a Wavelight.


What do you mean by upscaling? Upsampling maybe? If so forget about it, its the worst thing about May. It's all about NOS


----------



## AudioProm

krude said:


> What do you mean by upscaling? Upsampling maybe?


Upsampling, yes.



krude said:


> its the worst thing about May. It's all about NOS


Really? Wow. I'm always curious about how a good R2R DAC sounds compared to Delta-Sigma in the same price bracket but this can wait. My next highest priority is a new headphones


----------



## chesebert

AudioProm said:


> Upsampling, yes.
> 
> 
> Really? Wow. I'm always curious about how a good R2R DAC sounds compared to Delta-Sigma in the same price bracket but this can wait. My next highest priority is a new headphones


You can always upsample using an external scaler, such as HQPlayer.


----------



## jonathan c

AudioProm said:


> Upsampling, yes.
> 
> 
> Really? Wow. I'm always curious about how a good R2R DAC sounds compared to Delta-Sigma in the same price bracket but this can wait. My next highest priority is a new headphones


Upsampling is not a digital panacea: more frequent chances to get it ‘right’ or to !!!! it up…😄 / 🤬


----------



## chesebert (Jul 11, 2022)

jonathan c said:


> Upsampling is not a digital panacea: more frequent chances to get it ‘right’ or to !!!! it up…😄 / 🤬


upsampling is absolutely required in order to avoid errors in the conversion process: aliasing, phase shift, high frequency loss etc.

NOS dacs are basically kicking the upsampling can upstream to an external scaler.


----------



## AudioProm

chesebert said:


> You can always upsample using an external scaler, such as HQPlayer.


Yes, I've been using HQPlayer for all my music upsampling needs (from Qobuz through Roon+HQPlayer). Sorry I was not being clear about the lack of upsampling of Holo 3 KTE concern I have. I was referring to gaming needs. It's a small portion of usage % but important to me nonetheless.


----------



## bluenight

As this is a fully balanced design and Balanced HP output sounds better, 

do you think balanced xlr input cables sound better then rca if you have the same cable in rca and xlr?


----------



## bluenight

@AudioProm why is HP priority isent the arya stelth one of the most bang for buck HP you can get. And you said it sounded fantastic with Ferrum combo. They might be to leaky to work for me as i work night and apartment i live in have thin walls. HD800S is leaky too but less so

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/1-5/graph#4288/7988


----------



## adrianm

bluenight said:


> As this is a fully balanced design and Balanced HP output sounds better,
> 
> do you think balanced xlr input cables sound better then rca if you have the same cable in rca and xlr?


I'm about to test this next week with Dave, once my Oor finally arrives. Dave's RCA outputs sound better in theory, but I'll see how it behaves with the amp.


----------



## bluenight

adrianm said:


> I'm about to test this next week with Dave, once my Oor finally arrives. Dave's RCA outputs sound better in theory, but I'll see how it behaves with the amp.


Cool. Let us know how it goes.


----------



## AudioProm

bluenight said:


> @AudioProm why is HP priority isent the arya stelth one of the most bang for buck HP you can get. And you said it sounded fantastic with Ferrum combo.


Sorry, I'm not sure if I understand your question/statement. Can you please re-phrase it?


----------



## SlothRock (Jul 13, 2022)

The OOR + Hypsos, Spring 3 KTE and Susvara combo makes me both insanely happy and sad.

Insanely happy because I have literally 0 complaints. Honestly none. Everything sounds crisp as hell, perfectly balanced with the precision of the Susvara and the bass digs deep. First time I've put on a headphone and didn't feel like anything was missing. I had a buddy over who isn't really into the whole audiophile thing and he picked this setup after the first song as the obvious "best".

Sad because I don't feel like I can reasonably convince myself I need new headphone gear anymore


----------



## Tom75

SlothRock said:


> The OOR + Hypsos, Spring 3 KTE and Susvara combo makes me both insanely happy and sad.
> 
> Insanely happy because I have literally 0 complaints. Honestly none. Everything sounds crisp as hell, perfectly balanced with the precision of the Susvara and the bass digs deep. First time I've put on a headphone and didn't feel like anything was missing. I had a buddy over who isn't really into the whole audiophile thing and he picked this setup after the first song as the obvious "best".
> 
> Sad because I don't feel like I can't reasonably convince myself I need new headphone gear anymore


Very nice.
I have the same combo, but with the Elite and to my ears, it still sounds slightly too crisp. Don't get me wrong, the KTE is very very good,  but I'm missing something with the  Elite. 
May be, I need to move on for a Susvara


----------



## SlothRock

Tom75 said:


> Very nice.
> I have the same combo, but with the Elite and to my ears, it still sounds slightly too crisp. Don't get me wrong, the KTE is very very good,  but I'm missing something with the  Elite.
> May be, I need to move on for a Susvara



I haven’t heard the Elite but if you’re finding them too crisp then I can definitely say the Susvara would fix that. The thing that impresses me most about it is that every frequency is pretty much perfectly represented but presented in more of a relaxed fashion so there is 0 chance of fatigue.


----------



## bluenight

AudioProm said:


> Sorry, I'm not sure if I understand your question/statement. Can you please re-phrase it?


Whats lacking? You said arya stealth sounded fantastic with Ferrum combo. 
So why the need for new HP? Just uppgrade itches?


----------



## AudioProm (Jul 13, 2022)

Oh! . I want something with better soundstage and imaging for something other than EDM. I'm thinking ZMF Atrium but still doing some research on others at the moment.


----------



## bluenight

AudioProm said:


> The changes are more prominent when I went from Bifrost2(SE) to Qutest compared to- from Qutest to VMV D2(SE).


The dealer i bought Ferrum Oor+Hypsos from recommended me to get a more natural sounding DAC then Hugo2 for less brightness. 

Would you say VMV D2(SE) is more natural sounding then Qutest? Also have you noticed if VMV D2 have more subb bass presence? And you did not notice if VMV D2 is smoother overall or in the upper mids? Yes i remember you said arya was allready smooth there.


----------



## Gavin C4

bluenight said:


> The dealer i bought Ferrum Oor+Hypsos from recommended me to get a more natural sounding DAC then Hugo2 for less brightness.
> 
> Would you say VMV D2(SE) is more natural sounding then Qutest? Also have you noticed if VMV D2 have more subb bass presence? And you did not notice if VMV D2 is smoother overall or in the upper mids? Yes i remember you said arya was allready smooth there.



R2R DACs generally less brightness and more natural. For example Holo , Denfreps.


----------



## krude (Jul 13, 2022)

bluenight said:


> The dealer i bought Ferrum Oor+Hypsos from recommended me to get a more natural sounding DAC then Hugo2 for less brightness.
> 
> Would you say VMV D2(SE) is more natural sounding then Qutest? Also have you noticed if VMV D2 have more subb bass presence? And you did not notice if VMV D2 is smoother overall or in the upper mids? Yes i remember you said arya was allready smooth there.


For that kinda money I would look at Pontus 2.

Also DAC won't fix FR issues with headphones. It will smooth things out, change the character of the sound, but it won't make a headphone basy. 

Did you try connecting to the preamp outs already?


----------



## Burakk

Dear Ferrum lovers, I need to go through to Enleum path. I'm selling my Ferrum stack. If anybody interested, I have like new condition.


----------



## bluenight

krude said:


> Did you try connecting to the preamp outs already?


I dont get it. What should i connect and how? 

You mean use Oor as preamp to another amp? I am out of other amps. 

Also btw about FR in HP i have been very happy with bass quantity in HD800S- Hugo2 internal amp last days. I thought previously Hugo2 was a thin sounding amp but not now that i have listened to the Oor. I have realised Hugo2 bass is great imo. Maybe Oor is just more neutral and Hugo2 boosted? But maybe its good they don't sound the same for different flavours.


----------



## krude

bluenight said:


> I dont get it. What should i connect and how?
> 
> You mean use Oor as preamp to another amp? I am out of other amps.
> 
> Also btw about FR in HP i have been very happy with bass quantity in HD800S- Hugo2 internal amp last days. I thought previously Hugo2 was a thin sounding amp but not now that i have listened to the Oor. I have realised Hugo2 bass is great imo. Maybe Oor is just more neutral and Hugo2 boosted? But maybe its good they don't sound the same for different flavours.


I mean connect the headphone to the preamp out at the back instead of the headphone outs on the front using an adapter cable. You can even use rca if you have rca to jack adapter lying around but a dedicated xlr adapter would be better. The difference is that the pre out on the Oor happens to be at 40 ohm which is exactly what HD800 seems to be tuned to use.

Anothet point is that it's strange that Hugo 2 on it's own has more bass and Oor with Hypsos thins it down 🤔 I don't have a Hugo 2 at hand but Oor is not a thin sounding amp by any stretch ... hmm. I assume you have Hypsos connected via 4 pin and set to 24v?


----------



## bluenight

krude said:


> I mean connect the headphone to the preamp out at the back instead of the headphone outs on the front using an adapter cable. You can even use rca if you have rca to jack adapter lying around but a dedicated xlr adapter would be better. The difference is that the pre out on the Oor happens to be at 40 ohm which is exactly what HD800 seems to be tuned to use.


I don't have such adapters have you tried it yourself? 


krude said:


> Anothet point is that it's strange that Hugo 2 on it's own has more bass and Oor with Hypsos thins it down 🤔 I don't have a Hugo 2 at hand but Oor is not a thin sounding amp by any stretch ... hmm. I assume you have Hypsos connected via 4 pin and set to 24v?


Yep just reporting what I hear. Yep got FPL cable and 24V.


----------



## krude

bluenight said:


> I don't have such adapters have you tried it yourself?
> 
> Yep just reporting what I hear. Yep got FPL cable and 24V.


I do and I tried it, had an exchange with @801evan on here about it recently. The easiest thing to try is to get a cheap adapter and use RCA, XLR adapters are a bit more expensive. Anyway, just trying to help. Probably cheaper to try an adapter than buy a another amp to try 🤔


----------



## bluenight

On the other hand Oor got a bigger sound stage and sounds cleaner. Hugo2 sounds more hazy. Oor got more treble detail. Hugo2 got more bass details imo.


----------



## AudioProm

bluenight said:


> Would you say VMV D2(SE) is more natural sounding then Qutest?


I honestly can't tell but keep in mind, the SE (from VMV D2 and Qutest) only ever connected to my Feliks Audio MKII which would color the sound to a higher degree.


bluenight said:


> Also have you noticed if VMV D2 have more subb bass presence?


No, maybe a little bit but without a quick A/B, I don't think I would able to tell the difference.


bluenight said:


> And you did not notice if VMV D2 is smoother overall or in the upper mids?


I can't tell from memory because this FR region is never been a problem with my chains.


----------



## bluenight (Jul 13, 2022)

Had a quick listen. 
I think it sounded more fullbodied now that i connected my best rca cables Atlas Mavros direct from Cambridge CXNv2 streamer with built in DAC. Still heard some sharpness in voices but it could maybe lessen after 30 min warm up time. I think i noticed that with Hugo2 as DAC that it got better after around 30mins. And this with the single ended output. So its promising.


----------



## Gavin C4

Adding a Woo WA 22 tube pre to the OOR might be the ultimate way to get a smoother sound. Or maybe the OOR just doesn't work well with HD800S, any other have the similar pairing?


----------



## krude

bluenight said:


> Had a quick listen.
> I think it sounded more fullbodied now that i connected my best rca cables Atlas Mavros direct from Cambridge CXNv2 streamer with built in DAC. Still heard some sharpness in voices but it could maybe lessen after 30 min warm up time. I think i noticed that with Hugo2 as DAC that it got better after around 30mins. And this with the single ended output. So its promising.


I'm recently using my Utopia a lot, and I'm going back between HA6a tube amp and the Ferrum stack, and I think you should try a good tube amp with your HD800. It won't quite give you the detail and clarity of Ferrum but if you put in some more euphonic tubes (like Gold Lion in my case), it will certainly provide a smoother, more engaging sound at the cost of some detail and clarity. HA6a is certainly a good value amp I would recommend, got some shortcomings (it can be noisy and on the edge of power reserve for Susvara), but overall I'm very happy with it and using it a lot. I actually run the Oor as a pre amp for it most of the time, but you won't need to as your Hugo 2 already has a very good volume control and also HA6a works better (or at least as good as balanced) through RCA.


----------



## bluenight

I dont need to have a HP connected to do burn in?

Just feed RCA signal from streamer with Oor+Hypsos powered on will work you think?


----------



## chesebert (Jul 14, 2022)

bluenight said:


> I dont need to have a HP connected to do burn in?
> 
> Just feed RCA signal from streamer with Oor+Hypsos powered on will work you think?


No, unless you have a high power resistor you use for burn in.


----------



## 801evan

bluenight said:


> On the other hand Oor got a bigger sound stage and sounds cleaner. Hugo2 sounds more hazy. Oor got more treble detail. Hugo2 got more bass details imo.


Hugo 2 will scale when on desktop mode and powered by a really good psu. The limitations you are hearing is typical of devices powered by battery.


----------



## EMINENT

bluenight said:


> On the other hand Oor got a bigger sound stage and sounds cleaner. Hugo2 sounds more hazy. Oor got more treble detail. Hugo2 got more bass details imo.


Are you still only using Oor by itself or now with Hypsos?


----------



## krude

801evan said:


> Hugo 2 will scale when on desktop mode and powered by a really good psu. The limitations you are hearing is typical of devices powered by battery.


Im pretty sure Hugo 2 runs exclusively off battery. I think it just conditions the battery in desktop mode, so charges it at the same time as using it. I could be wrong but that's what I thought when I had it 🤔


----------



## 801evan

krude said:


> Im pretty sure Hugo 2 runs exclusively off battery. I think it just conditions the battery in desktop mode, so charges it at the same time as using it. I could be wrong but that's what I thought when I had it 🤔


Nope.
Once in desktop mode, it'll actually use the battery  for extra current needs that the external psu can't provide, which is the assumed 2a limit.


----------



## krude

801evan said:


> Nope.
> Once in desktop mode, it'll actually use the battery  for extra current needs that the external psu can't provide, which is the assumed 2a limit.


Hmmm good to know 😮🤦‍♂️I've been living a lie 😖😂


----------



## bluenight

EMINENT said:


> Are you still only using Oor by itself or now with Hypsos?


With Hypsos now. 

I listened all day yesterday in single-ended HP output. I think it sounds better now that i use my best Rca cables from my CXNv2 streamer Rca outpu to feed Ferrum combo. It is a more refined amp then previous owned amps and i could here some musicality details i haven't heard before. Still sharp voices on too many recordings imo. I think i need better streaming transport and dac that make it more analogue and natural. Its fullbodyness is satisfying i think it maybe it just shows the bass differently that iam used to. This might be more natural and more neutral way to play the bass and maybe better show different textures and details in the bass, subtle stuff, less in your face. Overall this lets through more details that i haven't heard before. 

This high end approach might need a brain burn in to understand what this amp is doing also.


----------



## 801evan

krude said:


> Hmmm good to know 😮🤦‍♂️I've been living a lie 😖😂


You sporting a Hugo2 ? It's actually hard to find or design a psu chain that would exceed the battery in the Hugo 2. But once you do, the upper, lower, mid bass congestion is gone. It's very extended and smooth. I don't think hypsos alone is enough to exceed the battery in the Hugo 2 for example. It can give extension but may introduce haze.


----------



## bluenight

801evan said:


> Hugo 2 will scale when on desktop mode and powered by a really good psu. The limitations you are hearing is typical of devices powered by battery.


Are you sure though battery cant be better? 

Hans liked this better to power the Brooklyn mytek then Hypsos.


----------



## 801evan

bluenight said:


> Are you sure though battery cant be better?
> 
> Hans liked this better to power the Brooklyn mytek then Hypsos.



It just shows how a weak performer the hypsos is. As mentioned the hypsos may not convincingly outperform the internal battery of the Hugo 2. 
I've already done a pure powerbank system. Dedicated power bank on each device. Silver occ dc cables. It's better than straight to the wall but silver power cables and a line conditioner will make the powerbank system unlistenable in comparison.


----------



## krude

801evan said:


> It just shows how a weak performer the hypsos is. As mentioned the hypsos may not convincingly outperform the internal battery of the Hugo 2.
> I've already done a pure powerbank system. Dedicated power bank on each device. Silver occ dc cables. It's better than straight to the wall but silver power cables and a line conditioner will make the powerbank system unlistenable in comparison.


One of the most demanding audio reviewers in the world sings Hypsos praises, comparing it to high grade pure battery, so zero interference, solution and you constantly state it's rubbish 🤔 in the video Hans actually praises Hypsos in comparison and it's been his reference PSU for years now.


----------



## 801evan (Jul 15, 2022)

krude said:


> One of the most demanding audio reviewers in the world sings Hypsos praises, comparing it to high grade pure battery, so zero interference, solution and you constantly state it's rubbish 🤔 in the video Hans actually praises Hypsos in comparison and it's been his reference PSU for years now.


He hasn't tried the ifi elite...and a modded ifi elite. Lol. Ey. Nothing else below 1k can beat the hypsos aside from that one product that is the ifi elite. So he is 97% correct. 😁 Someone need to take one for the team and get an ifi elite 24v for the OOR.

Caveat is... My chain is behind a line conditioner. So that gives lots of noise rejection performance for the elite even if hypsos is also behind a line conditioner. So it's quite possible Hypsos is better than elite if straight to wall comparisons since hypsos has an internal filter. M too lazy to compare straight to wall sadly. (Don't think I have power cables long enough to power and compare).

If you have hypsos and Hugo 2, simple test is to out Hugo 2 to desktop mode and see if you hear the gains. You have to rely on aural memory for this test.


----------



## bluenight

Was there an comparison with burson soloist 3 GT? The burson was more detail oriented and with more treble energy? OOR more musical? 

Just wondering because there was an comparison with Sparkos aries and soloist 3 GT saying that. Now i have been tempted to maybe trade in Ferrum combo against Aries but maybe they are allready similar Oor and aries? Aries was presented as more forgiving and smoother up top more suitble for HD800S, also more musical but with less details and smaller soundstage


----------



## ozziegurkan

Soloist GT definitely has more treble energy and dynamic. OOR is a little more laidback when you do A/B testing. I have both. I have also rolled opamps in the Soloist and it is really good now. I have been able to tame the brightness a little and tightened the bass to where now I can pick the genre to the amp and enjoy both.


----------



## bluenight

Been listening to balanced HP output more now and it sounds more airy and bigger/wider with a little more satisfying bass.

Classical works great with this amp and - HD800S still. Better then ever in this genre. Jazz will probably work great too. Only trip up on vocals in pop/rock mostly. Maybe bad recordings is to blame.


----------



## vcoheda (Jul 16, 2022)

@ozziegurkan. i noticed your join date is about a month ago. did you acquire all that gear since joining the site or had you been buying/listening to headphones for a while (and just didn't know about head-fi).


----------



## krude

bluenight said:


> Been listening to balanced HP output more now and it sounds more airy and bigger/wider with a little more satisfying bass.
> 
> Classical works great with this amp and - HD800S still. Better then ever in this genre. Jazz will probably work great too. Only trip up on vocals in pop/rock mostly. Maybe bad recordings is to blame.


Glad you're finding the strenghts of this setup. Try switching between medium and high gain, this also yields some interesting differences.

Good thing is that Oor will run all other sets with plenty of headroom. It runs Susvara to full blast without breaking a sweat. Also it will open up with burn in over time.


----------



## bluenight

krude said:


> Try switching between medium and high gain, this also yields some interesting differences


I did try it quickly but couldn't notice anything then. What difference have you noticed? I think headfonia review said he preferred HD800S on high gain. I have used medium gain mostly because i haven't needed to go higher and i imagine highest gain is more noisy? 


krude said:


> Also it will open up with burn in over time.


Did you notice this yourself? How many burn in hours is the concensus for electronics?


----------



## ozziegurkan

vcoheda said:


> @ozziegurkan. i noticed your join date is about a month ago. did you acquire all that gear since joining the site or had you been buying/listening to headphones for a while (and just didn't know about head-fi).


I acquired over the course of about six months but wasn’t really active in forums until now. I was reading a lot of reviews through this forum but didn’t start interacting until I was ready to start sharing.


----------



## vcoheda

Nice selection.


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## krude

bluenight said:


> I did try it quickly but couldn't notice anything then. What difference have you noticed? I think headfonia review said he preferred HD800S on high gain. I have used medium gain mostly because i haven't needed to go higher and i imagine highest gain is more noisy?
> 
> Did you notice this yourself? How many burn in hours is the concensus for electronics?


Well, I find the difference to be pretty monumental albeit with TC and Susvara. For Susvara it's a different flavour of dynamics vs smoothness, both settings working better for different genres. For me high gain is more aggressive and has a bit more distortion, works better for rock / metal / electronica. I tend to stay in mid gain most of the time tho.

Also recently listening to well recorded acoustic music with good bass I found the bass on Susvara to be sublime on Ferrum. Plenty, punchy and very well controlled. Not something many people would ever say about Susvara.


----------



## Gavin C4

The OOR is such a magical amp, at first glance it might not surprise you by its sound because it is so balanced and natural, yet extremely detailed. The more time you listen to this amp you will start to discover its strength such as impactful bass and natural vocals. It does not do it by adding any excesdive quantity, instead the OOR excells in extremely high quality of presentation in these areas.


----------



## SlothRock

Oh ya - the OOR leaves me wanting for nothing from a SS amp. The sound is sublime as many have attested, the looks are understated but striking (yes, looks matter!), the ease of use and non fussy nature of the controls are a joy to use, the preamp is very high quality. Definitely has been a home run


----------



## bluenight

I noticed better bass and blacker background = better details in all FR. When i tried another powerstrip conditioner that i bought. I have been using the Niagara 1000 for som years now but tried the Dynavox X2000 now instead. It is 10 times cheaper then Niagara but still better in my system.


----------



## krude

bluenight said:


> I noticed better bass and blacker background = better details in all FR. When i tried another powerstrip conditioner that i bought. I have been using the Niagara 1000 for som years now but tried the Dynavox X2000 now instead. It is 10 times cheaper then Niagara but still better in my system.


Indeed, conditioning can suck out the bass and dynamics in general if you over condition your system. I've got some posts on here when testing my PC. It was easy to loose dynamics and bass from the Oor when feeding it highly conditioned power.


----------



## TheR0v3r

SlothRock said:


> Oh ya - the OOR leaves me wanting for nothing from a SS amp. The sound is sublime as many have attested, the looks are understated but striking (yes, looks matter!), the ease of use and non fussy nature of the controls are a joy to use, the preamp is very high quality. Definitely has been a home run


How do you view your Feliks vs the Ferrum?


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## bluenight

krude said:


> Indeed, conditioning can suck out the bass and dynamics in general if you over condition your system. I've got some posts on here when testing my PC. It was easy to loose dynamics and bass from the Oor when feeding it highly conditioned power.


Straight to wall might be the best. And Woo audio recommends that also.


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## adrianm

krude said:


> Indeed, conditioning can suck out the bass and dynamics in general if you over condition your system. I've got some posts on here when testing my PC. It was easy to loose dynamics and bass from the Oor when feeding it highly conditioned power.


I didn't have any issues using the High current outputs of my Isotek Aquarius.


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## SlothRock

TheR0v3r said:


> How do you view your Feliks vs the Ferrum?



Can you be more specific? I use them quite differently. Happy to answer any questions you have though!


----------



## 801evan

krude said:


> Indeed, conditioning can suck out the bass and dynamics in general if you over condition your system. I've got some posts on here when testing my PC. It was easy to loose dynamics and bass from the Oor when feeding it highly conditioned power.


Not really. Conditioner is just exposing issues on the Hypsos or the rest of the chain.


----------



## TheR0v3r

SlothRock said:


> Can you be more specific? I use them quite differently. Happy to answer any questions you have though!


Thanks! It was actually the different uses cases I primarily was thinking about. How do you use them?


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## FooFighter (Jul 20, 2022)

Hey chaps
A friend is intending to buy a Spring 3 KTE to be paired with the Ferrum OOR / Hypsos and a Susvara.
He's now wondering wether to buy the Spring 3 KTE preamp or non preamp version playing DSD format music.
I used to have exactly that combo with the non preamp version and once using both PEQ and DSD I was running Oor up to 75% at high gain as both Spring 3 will output only half voltage with DSD formats and the used PEQ required reducing the baseline output by some additional decibels.
I was reading in the Spring forum that many folks who are using the preamp version of the Spring are running it with reduced gain so it's running with not more than the standard voltage of the non preamp version which is making me question the need for the preamp version.
What's your recommendation for that combo Oor plus Susvara playing DSD music?
Is the maximum voltage of 11.6Vrms balanced uncritical for the Oor input?


----------



## krude

FooFighter said:


> Hey chaps
> A friend is intending to buy a Spring 3 KTE to be paired with the Ferrum OOR / Hypsos and a Susvara.
> He's now wondering wether to buy the Spring 3 KTE preamp or non preamp version playing DSD format music.
> I used to have exactly that combo with the non preamp version and once using both PEQ and DSD I was running Oor up to 75% at high gain as both Spring 3 will output only half voltage with DSD formats and the used PEQ required reducing the baseline output by some additional decibels.
> ...


I would get the pre-amp version. I've heard the pre-amp is really good quality. You can then easily run Ferrum in power amp mode, get the best of both worlds and compensate for any DB loss.


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## Tom75

Hi, I use the KTE without preamp and I'm fine..
I'll receive the musicbook source II this week and then decide, whether to go for the Lindemann or stay with the KTE..


----------



## SlothRock

TheR0v3r said:


> Thanks! It was actually the different uses cases I primarily was thinking about. How do you use them?



Ahh ok - well the OOR is being used to drive my Susvara and also driving my active desktop monitors as well. I never really use my Verite Closed on it because I really the prefer the sound on the VC coming out of the Euforia. I would switch back and forth on the Atrium that I think is a better "chameleon" for the two amps.

On the OOR, the Atrium is a lot more balanced sounding and more precise. There is less bass impact and the mids sit a tad further back,  but this is a much better setup for fast paced rock/metal music. On the Euforia, the Atrium has much more heft to the bass, mids are increased and you get that euphoric sound that tubes bring in to the mix where everything feels like it's swirling around you more/more ethereal sound. This is great for most music but it can get slightly in the way when you're listening to those fast paced rock/metal tracks that have tons going on already.

Love them both! Very different use cases tho. Hope that helps


----------



## TheR0v3r

SlothRock said:


> Ahh ok - well the OOR is being used to drive my Susvara and also driving my active desktop monitors as well. I never really use my Verite Closed on it because I really the prefer the sound on the VC coming out of the Euforia. I would switch back and forth on the Atrium that I think is a better "chameleon" for the two amps.
> 
> On the OOR, the Atrium is a lot more balanced sounding and more precise. There is less bass impact and the mids sit a tad further back,  but this is a much better setup for fast paced rock/metal music. On the Euforia, the Atrium has much more heft to the bass, mids are increased and you get that euphoric sound that tubes bring in to the mix where everything feels like it's swirling around you more/more ethereal sound. This is great for most music but it can get slightly in the way when you're listening to those fast paced rock/metal tracks that have tons going on already.
> 
> Love them both! Very different use cases tho. Hope that helps


Thank you, appreciate your explanation 👍


----------



## Gavin C4

krude said:


> I would get the pre-amp version. I've heard the pre-amp is really good quality. You can then easily run Ferrum in power amp mode, get the best of both worlds and compensate for any DB loss.



I do the exact same thing with my dCS Rossini in preamp mode and OOR set to power amp mode.


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## bluenight

I haven't used power amp mode yet on Oor but will eventually. Both my Hugo2 and CXNv2 has preamps built in that i use. 

What sonic difference is there to expect? 
Its not much difference to be heard? Better bass or anything more details ? 

Anyway i think there was measurements showing it was a cleaner signal in power mode. That's always nice to know. But could you actually hear it was cleaner sounding?


----------



## adrianm

bluenight said:


> Anyway i think there was measurements showing it was a cleaner signal in power mode. That's always nice to know. But could you actually hear it was cleaner sounding?


That is highly dependent on the Pre. Even for good digital Pre's, like Dave, apparently it's better to use Oor's pre.


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## Annarob1947

FooFighter said:


> Hmm, will need to really test that out but as far as I remember it's getting warm like don't know shoes from inside  after wearing but nothing compared to my former Shanling M8 DAP which is using some graphene heat sink patent to distribute all the heat to the chassis.
> I recognize though that the OOR warmth is also felt on the volume wheel a bit but it didn't disturb me so far - maybe a tradeoff due to the small footprint...


Im finding its Oor that gets very hot


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## Annarob1947

dstarr3 said:


> What kind of DACs are people pairing with their Oor/Hypsos?


Im using Chord Mscaler with chord Qutest


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## Zaek

Is it hot like a Headamp Gsx mini?


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## bluenight (Jul 25, 2022)

I feel it warms the listening room up a bit could be annoying on warm summer days. For these days maybe Hugo2 will be used. Thankfully i live in the cold part of the world so we dont have alot of hot summer days here.


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## bluenight

Is it always planars the have best synergy with Oor or are there exceptions for dynamic HP too? That you could say yes too and get 100% behind. 


How would you rank your HP collection with Oor?


----------



## Annarob1947

AudioProm said:


> I found it easier to insert the connector in if I pull the locking ring (it's spring loaded).


Definitely pull back lock ring


----------



## plumpudding2

Does anyone here use the OOR with the DCA Stealth? I'm puzzled by everyone's reports of using medium or high gain in their configuration.
With me for the Stealth I have a comfortable listening volume with -4 dBFS digital headroom, DAC output voltage down to 1.8 Volt and OOR volume pot at 11 o' clock on low gain. The Stealth are one of the hardest headphones to drive next to Susvara... so i'm really wondering why I don't seem to need 90% of my system headroom. 

In the beginning I set my dac output level to 12 Volts as I thought you should always feed an amp the hottest input signal it can accept, however that puts me quite below 25% on the volume pot in low gain which I think is not advised.

Does anyone have input on an optimal configuration? I think Ferrum advises to try to match your dac output and gain in such a way that you have the volume pot around 12 o'clock. I'm quite interested in recommendations or experiences!


----------



## krude

plumpudding2 said:


> Does anyone here use the OOR with the DCA Stealth? I'm puzzled by everyone's reports of using medium or high gain in their configuration.
> With me for the Stealth I have a comfortable listening volume with -4 dBFS digital headroom, DAC output voltage down to 1.8 Volt and OOR volume pot at 11 o' clock on low gain. The Stealth are one of the hardest headphones to drive next to Susvara... so i'm really wondering why I don't seem to need 90% of my system headroom.
> 
> In the beginning I set my dac output level to 12 Volts as I thought you should always feed an amp the hottest input signal it can accept, however that puts me quite below 25% on the volume pot in low gain which I think is not advised.
> ...


I think your system is just set up properly. I get Susvara really loud at 12 o'clock medium gain 6v dac with about 3dbfs headroom 👌


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## krude

plumpudding2 said:


> Does anyone here use the OOR with the DCA Stealth? I'm puzzled by everyone's reports of using medium or high gain in their configuration.
> With me for the Stealth I have a comfortable listening volume with -4 dBFS digital headroom, DAC output voltage down to 1.8 Volt and OOR volume pot at 11 o' clock on low gain. The Stealth are one of the hardest headphones to drive next to Susvara... so i'm really wondering why I don't seem to need 90% of my system headroom.
> 
> In the beginning I set my dac output level to 12 Volts as I thought you should always feed an amp the hottest input signal it can accept, however that puts me quite below 25% on the volume pot in low gain which I think is not advised.
> ...


I've looked at Stealth specs ... I haven't tried them myself, but it looks like comparisons to Susvara are a bit overblown. It has about 3-4db more sensitivity per mW and it has over 2.5 lover impedance, so it should be significantly easier to drive. In contrast it has lest than half of 1266 TC impedance with the same sensitivity (more less).

Anyway, the fact that you have to limit the voltage to 1.8v is a bit concerning ... there may be something else at play with your DAC. I would expect it to be really loud with the standard ~4v, medium gain and volume knob around 25-30%. Do you have a pre-amp in your dac or in your system? Also which dac do you use?


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## krude (Jul 29, 2022)

I've got some more bass related impressions with Susvara. I've been listening to more good quality acoustic recordings and bass on Susvara is very good with May -> Oor + Hypsos. It perfectly represents what's in the recording.

Things seem to work somehow differently for purely electronic music where the bass can seem to be lacking a bit at times (but there is also a lot of electronica that sounds as intended), but for acoustic music Susvara delivers on all fronts in spades, it's pretty much hifi perfection. In fact adding a sub bass shelf throws the timbre for acoustic tracks off a lot and it immediately feels there is too much bass even if adding only +2db. It becomes immediately obvious that the stock tuning is perfect.


----------



## plumpudding2

krude said:


> I've looked at Stealth specs ... I haven't tried them myself, but it looks like comparisons to Susvara are a bit overblown. It has about 3-4db more sensitivity per mW and it has over 2.5 lover impedance, so it should be significantly easier to drive. In contrast it has lest than half of 1266 TC impedance with the same sensitivity (more less).
> 
> Anyway, the fact that you have to limit the voltage to 1.8v is a bit concerning ... there may be something else at play with your DAC. I would expect it to be really loud with the standard ~4v, medium gain and volume knob around 25-30%. Do you have a pre-amp in your dac or in your system? Also which dac do you use?


Thanks for your response!
Well you're right maybe they are a bit overblown, but in my case the power requirements made me decide to get the Ferrum.
The DAC I use is the RME ADI-2 Pro, which outputs 3W into the Susvara's 60 ohms but unfortunately only 1.65 watts into the Stealths' 23 ohm. For a current limited amp as in the RME the lower impedance of the stealth actually makes it harder to drive than Susvara.  
I've checked your scenario of 4V DAC out with medium gain and 25% volume knob and it is very loud but tolerable for a single song. I've got quite sensitive ears so I guess I just listen at a slightly lower volume.


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## Tom75

I just compared the Holo Spring3 KTE with the Lindemann Musicbook Source II.  Oor/Hypsos and Meze Elite.
I love the Oor/Hypsos, because it has the capability to make the differences between both devices so clear.
To make a long story short. The Lindemann is the most musical device (DAC/Streamer), I heard so far. Natural, fluid and full bodied sound.. Big soundstage. Nice separation of instruments. 
The KTE sound in comparison was not so full bodied, but more precise and instruments, e.g. saxophones and guitars, sounded slightly more realistic.
Honestly,  it's nearly impossible, to have a winner here.  Just different, and for an evening with long listening sessions, I'd choose the Lindemann.  If you want to be more close to the instruments with slightly more analytical touch, the KTE is the way to go..
But one thing is great and for sure: the Oor/Hypsos is able to pull out every detail and difference.


----------



## krude

plumpudding2 said:


> Thanks for your response!
> Well you're right maybe they are a bit overblown, but in my case the power requirements made me decide to get the Ferrum.
> The DAC I use is the RME ADI-2 Pro, which outputs 3W into the Susvara's 60 ohms but unfortunately only 1.65 watts into the Stealths' 23 ohm. For a current limited amp as in the RME the lower impedance of the stealth actually makes it harder to drive than Susvara.
> I've checked your scenario of 4V DAC out with medium gain and 25% volume knob and it is very loud but tolerable for a single song. I've got quite sensitive ears so I guess I just listen at a slightly lower volume.


Oor pretty much has the power of a speaker amp with 8w at 60 ohm, it has around 50% headroom for Susvara itself on medium gain, so Stealth at 1/4 sounds about right. 

Try experimenting with single ended input and output to keep Oor in medium gain. I find medium gain to be the nominal / optimal setting for most genres.


----------



## plumpudding2

krude said:


> Oor pretty much has the power of a speaker amp with 8w at 60 ohm, it has around 50% headroom for Susvara itself on medium gain, so Stealth at 1/4 sounds about right.
> 
> Try experimenting with single ended input and output to keep Oor in medium gain. I find medium gain to be the nominal / optimal setting for most genres.


Thanks for the tip!


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## bluenight (Jul 30, 2022)

Tom75 said:


> I just compared the Holo Spring3 KTE with the Lindemann Musicbook Source II.  Oor/Hypsos and Meze Elite.
> I love the Oor/Hypsos, because it has the capability to make the differences between both devices so clear.
> To make a long story short. The Lindemann is the most musical device (DAC/Streamer), I heard so far. Natural, fluid and full bodied sound.. Big soundstage. Nice separation of instruments.
> The KTE sound in comparison was not so full bodied, but more precise and instruments, e.g. saxophones and guitars, sounded slightly more realistic.
> ...


How did you compare? Have you used same external source for both dacs? Could you connect lindemanns streaming output to spring 3 KTE?

The lindemann as pure dac have you connected external digital source and listened? To assess just the dac capability.

I think its hard to know with streamer/dac how much of the goodness is coming from the streaming impletation combined with dac for shortest signal path.

Have you had experience to listen to many other streamers to compare. Lumin for exemple? 

Does lindemann got remote with volume control? Its a interesting device for sure.


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## bluenight

@krude would you say Oor is missing some subb bass information?


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## TheR0v3r (Jul 30, 2022)

bluenight said:


> Is it always planars the have best synergy with Oor or are there exceptions for dynamic HP too? That you could say yes too and get 100% behind.
> 
> 
> How would you rank your HP collection with Oor?


Tonight I hooked up an old cd-player to my dac and connected my HD 650’s to Oor. I’ve had them for 15-20 years and they sound pretty, pretty good with the Oor - “Shoot out the lights” has never been this captivating with the Sennheisers!


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## bluenight (Jul 30, 2022)

I have clocked around 150hours of burn in time now.

I noticed today that songs I thought sounded sibilant before sounds less so today.

Also i am satisfied with the bass quality its quite detailed. The quantity is not bad either but i have heard it dig deaper with Hugo2. Oor maybe play bass differently and shows other bass details though i can suspect.

Other factors to consider burn in time on the new Dynavox X2000 power conditioner.


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## bluenight (Jul 30, 2022)

TheR0v3r said:


> Tonight I hooked up an old cd-player to my dac and connected my HD 650’s to Oor. I’ve had them for 15-20 years and they sound pretty, pretty good with the Oor - “Shoot out the lights” has never been this captivating with the Sennheisers!


Do you listen with stock single-ended cable or balanced?

I was not to satisfied with HD650 when i tried it when Oor was new. I only have the single ended stock cable. It could be more satisfying now with burn in time on Oor and change of power conditioner that reveals more detail.


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## TheR0v3r (Jul 30, 2022)

bluenight said:


> Do you listen with stock single-ended cable or balanced?
> 
> I was not to satisfied with HD650 when i tried it when Oor was new. I only have the single ended stock cable. It could be more satisfying now with burn in time on Oor and change of power conditioner that reveals more detail.


I’m using a single-ended cable from Cardas (grey). Works very well.

The Sennheisers are also (inadvertently) modded. Over the years I’ve worn out pads and changed them. Its been increasingly difficult to get the new pads to stay put, so I stopped using the foam protecting the driver (which makes it easier to fasten the pads).

What didn’t you like with them?


----------



## krude

bluenight said:


> @krude would you say Oor is missing some subb bass information?


Not for acoustic music, it digs all the way down with Susvara, has good dynamics, texture and weight. I would say it reproduces bass exactly as it was recorded.


----------



## TheR0v3r

TheR0v3r said:


> I’m using a single-ended cable from Cardas (grey). Works very well.
> 
> The Sennheisers are also (inadvertently) modded. Over the years I’ve worn out pads and changed them. Its been increasingly difficult to get the new pads to stay put, so I stopped using the foam protecting the driver (which makes it easier to fasten the pads).
> 
> What didn’t you like with them?


Fyi, output voltage set at 22.2 volts.


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## bluenight (Jul 30, 2022)

krude said:


> Not for acoustic music


But for electronic music?

Maybe real instruments doesent reach as low in hz as often as synthetic electronic sounds?


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## bluenight (Jul 30, 2022)

TheR0v3r said:


> What didn’t you like with them?


I thought HD650 sounded wonky or shouty compared to what i was used to with Lake People RS 02 or Hugo2. So just the tuning with more emphasis on midrange and treble then on bass warmth imo. I think the same can be heard with HD800S in single ended output.

Also amp was new then and the sound of this amp could be something i learn to like with time. Like I think i have at least with HD800S in balanced. Whats its called? An aquired taste.


----------



## bluenight

Rtings do real world measurements on HPs and shows HD800S only reaches to 80HZ and HD650 72.31 Hz. So it could be Oor is that neutral that is just doesent add anything and shows how the HP is really sounding? 

Scroll to bass. In the "show text" though it says HD800S reach 47HZ and HD650 40HZ but i suspect that was on there old testbench and test metholodigy that maybe wasent that accurate. Or i am reading it wrong
https://www.rtings.com/headphones/t...heiser-hd-650/290/245?usage=19&threshold=0.10


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## krude (Jul 30, 2022)

bluenight said:


> But for electronic music?
> 
> Maybe real instruments doesent reach as low in hz as often as synthetic electronic sounds?


It depends on electronic music as well, for example well produced music like Phaeleh has the bass as expected. I think it just doesn't compansate for over compressed and distorted tracks, which is unfortunately the majority of modern electronic music. I start to realise that Oor with Susvara is just a very reference setup, so well produced and recorded music will sound as it should but it won't be forgiving for any shortcomings.


----------



## bluenight

What they have closest to Susvara is arya and that reaches 36.68 Hz. 
https://www.rtings.com/headphones/t...hifiman-arya/290/4288?usage=19&threshold=0.10


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## krude (Jul 30, 2022)

bluenight said:


> What they have closest to Susvara is arya and that reaches 36.68 Hz.
> https://www.rtings.com/headphones/t...hifiman-arya/290/4288?usage=19&threshold=0.10


Arya is a very good set if you haven't tried it and it will sing on Oor. People call it the planar HD800. It's not as wide stage wise but it has bass for days compared to the 800.

Susvara is a different beast all together, sounds completely different from any other hifiman ... maybe a bit similar to HE6 but in a completely different league.


----------



## Tom75

bluenight said:


> How did you compare? Have you used same external source for both dacs? Could you connect lindemanns streaming output to spring 3 KTE?
> 
> The lindemann as pure dac have you connected external digital source and listened? To assess just the dac capability.
> 
> ...


Hi,
I compared the Lindemann DAC/streamer with the KTE and Cayin N8ii via I2s.. using the same XLRs and same tracks via quboz side by side.
I tried to match the volume as well.
The Lindemann has no digital output,  so I did not use it as a streaming device for the Holo.
I also tried the Cayin iDAP6 and the Pegasus DAC. Both are not on the same level like this stuff..


----------



## EMINENT (Jul 31, 2022)

Cross posting here from U18 thread as I don't know which is the cause.



> Would anyone know why incorporating U18 in my chain while upsampling PCM to DSD with HQP is causing Oor/Hypsos to click off and losing sound in one channel and to the point of voltage going up to 30+volts?
> 
> I have tried AES and I2S and same issue. When I take it out the chain and just go USB, no probs.





> EDIT: I got the Hypsos to shut down when pausing and going to HQP settings to change a filter. Heard click and Hypsos was showing 31 v.


----------



## Tubewin

rsbrsvp said:


> I just went to a local dealer to hear the amp-23R.
> 
> He had a Violectric HPA V226 dac- which I think is not the best but O.K.
> 
> ...


Did your local dealer have treated power going into the Enleum/chain? The dac in the v226 is reportedly *very* mediocre as well...


----------



## Dr_Hibbert

Just in case anyone is looking for a Ferrum stack, I've just listed mine for sale here: https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/ferrum-oor-hypos-stack.30530/. 

PM me with any questions.  Thanks.


----------



## OCC7N

Anybody using the OOR in "poweramp" mode?

If you do, any advantage when using hungry headphone?


----------



## chargedcapacitor

OCC7N said:


> Anybody using the OOR in "poweramp" mode?
> 
> If you do, any advantage when using hungry headphone?


There is no amplification difference between the power amp mode and attenuation /gain mode. The attenuation and gain mode simply change the input amplifier signal, while the power amp mode bypasses the low and high gain as well as the attenuator and goes strait from input amp, to power amp, to headphones. This reduces the number of components in the signal path, which reduces noise and distortion. If you have a DAC with volume control or a preamp, this is a desirable mode to be in. Just keep in mind, the amp is at full power, so turn down the volume all the way and adjust up. Otherwise you can damage your cans or ears.


----------



## OCC7N (Aug 6, 2022)

chargedcapacitor said:


> There is no amplification difference between the power amp mode and attenuation /gain mode. The attenuation and gain mode simply change the input amplifier signal, while the power amp mode bypasses the low and high gain as well as the attenuator and goes strait from input amp, to power amp, to headphones. This reduces the number of components in the signal path, which reduces noise and distortion. If you have a DAC with volume control or a preamp, this is a desirable mode to be in. Just keep in mind, the amp is at full power, so turn down the volume all the way and adjust up. Otherwise you can damage your cans or ears.


Wow thanks for info. I was thinking of using the TT2 as dac.

When its turned on in that mode what is the best practice of plug in/out headphones. Plug out before turning the amp of or after?(ofcourse music is stopped)

Full power = 8watts/60Ohms?


----------



## chargedcapacitor

OCC7N said:


> Wow thanks for info. I was thinking of using the TT2 as dac.
> 
> When its turned on in that mode what is the best practice of plug in/out headphones. Plug out before turning the amp of or after?(ofcourse music is stopped)
> 
> Full power = 8watts/60Ohms?


No it's safe, just as long as you have the volume set.


----------



## bluenight (Aug 6, 2022)

Things i noticed this amp does better then my previous lower priced amps $600/$300.
Bigger and wider sound. More refinement. Higher resolution. Better seperation. Maybe better timbre and more natural sound. It reveals more details. 

Now with burn in time i also think it has good sibilance control. Vocals sound less sharp now and smoother. It could been the power conditioner change to Dynavox X2000 and burn in on that one also that made the sibilance change.


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## bluenight (Aug 6, 2022)

OCC7N said:


> Wow thanks for info. I was thinking of using the TT2 as dac.


When i asked in the TT2 thread some people said that external amp with TT2 will loose some transparency over TT2 own amp. But it could be nice with different flavour. Also opinions can vary.


----------



## OCC7N

Did they try OOR?


----------



## kingoftown1

Has there been much experimentation with using different dc cables with the Hypsos?  I've had a lot of success upgrading dc cables on other components and just remembered I'd ordered the required Weipu SF12 connector, so I put together a cable using an Elec Audio DC barrel connector (copper base metal instead of brass) and on-hand materials.  

My goals were to use OCC copper, try an overkill version of JSSG360 shielding that incorporated a carbon shield, and use a natural material (cotton) to create distance between the conductors and the shielding materials.

Build order:

4 strands ~16awg Neotech OCC copper (stripped from spare NES-3004 mk2 speaker cable - pvc insulation, multi-gauge, some strands silver-plated), twisted into a star quad.  My normal preference is to use stranded Neotech hookup wire with PTFE insulation, but didn't have enough left over in this case.
cotton wrap
copper foil shield
spc drain wire (bare wire)
carbon/nylon shield fabric, sourced from an unused Supra Lorad SPC power cord
PTFE tape (to compress the shield layers/drain wire and help hold the layers/geometry in place
cotton wrap
tinned copper braid (the drain wire gets connected to this.  To achieve JSSG360, all shielding materials cover as much of the cable as possible _without _touching the connector at either end.
sleeving/heatshrink to finish

Unfortunately I can't offer any sound impressions, as I've also switched speaker cables and can't pin down changes in sound to one specific component.  In time I'll swap back in the original dc cable to compare, but that probably won't be for a month or so.  Hopefully this can at least start a discussion on what other dc cables people are using, either diy or purchased.


----------



## bluenight

@kingoftown1 nice work.


----------



## bluenight

OCC7N said:


> Did they try OOR?


It was not aimed specifically at Oor but one said every amp he had tried loosed transparency. 

One was of the opinion that Oor+Hypsos with TT2 was a fantastic combo.


----------



## tawmizzzz

Had to ship my Hypnos back to check out a potential humming issue (which could just be magnetic interference they think)-so while I wait for my new Hypnos likely 1-2 weeks, I am quickly realizing how much it buffs up the OOR. OOR on its alone sounds noticeable thinner, with less body, weight and dynamics. It's gonna be along 1-2 weeks


----------



## OCC7N (Aug 8, 2022)

tawmizzzz said:


> Had to ship my Hypnos back to check out a potential humming issue (which could just be magnetic interference they think)-so while I wait for my new Hypnos likely 1-2 weeks, I am quickly realizing how much it buffs up the OOR. OOR on its alone sounds noticeable thinner, with less body, weight and dynamics. It's gonna be along 1-2 weeks


Please update us on the issue.

I am actually considering this combo over enleum.

What settings/hypsos did you use with OOR?

They should sent you a new one as soon as they get the old one.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

kingoftown1 said:


> Has there been much experimentation with using different dc cables with the Hypsos?  I've had a lot of success upgrading dc cables on other components and just remembered I'd ordered the required Weipu SF12 connector, so I put together a cable using an Elec Audio DC barrel connector (copper base metal instead of brass) and on-hand materials.
> 
> My goals were to use OCC copper, try an overkill version of JSSG360 shielding that incorporated a carbon shield, and use a natural material (cotton) to create distance between the conductors and the shielding materials.
> 
> ...


As an electrical engineer, I can guarantee you there will be no change in sound by swapping for different DC cables on the Hypsos.


----------



## tawmizzzz

OCC7N said:


> Please update us on the issue.
> 
> I am actually considering this combo over enleum.
> 
> ...


Yep they plan on sending me a new one. Excellent customer service.

Just the standard/default settings. 24v for LCD5, 28 for Susvara. I’ve had briefly both 23R and Ferrum stack and 23r was slightly better for Susvara but worse for LCD5, and felt a bit drier in the mids and darker in treble. It was a bit more liquidy in presentation which aids in musicality however, depending on preferences. I don’t think you can go wrong with either!


----------



## OCC7N (Aug 8, 2022)

tawmizzzz said:


> Yep they plan on sending me a new one. Excellent customer service.
> 
> Just the standard/default settings. 24v for LCD5, 28 for Susvara. I’ve had briefly both 23R and Ferrum stack and 23r was slightly better for Susvara but worse for LCD5, and felt a bit drier in the mids and darker in treble. It was a bit more liquidy in presentation which aids in musicality however, depending on preferences. I don’t think you can go wrong with either!


If I go with the Ferrum Stack. Im thinking also buying a hypsos for Chord TT2 if the profile exist. As I understand it is a LPS right?

Price wise nothing seems to beat that stack.

EDIT: Happy to hear they have great service


----------



## kingoftown1

chargedcapacitor said:


> As an electrical engineer, I can guarantee you there will be no change in sound by swapping for different DC cables on the Hypsos.


You have your beliefs and experiences, I have mine, and that's fine. I respect that you don't believe there's any difference; I'd just ask you not to impede the discussion for those of us that do.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

kingoftown1 said:


> You have your beliefs and experiences, I have mine, and that's fine. I respect that you don't believe there's any difference; I'd just ask you not to impede the discussion for those of us that do.


Oh it's not a belief or opinion, I spent years in school and on the job learning about _electronics. _These things are not governed by fairy dust, but by equations and years of compounded knowledge. Your ignorance is not equal to my expertise. It's like telling a brain surgeon that you are using homeopathy for your brain tumor, and it has just as good of a chance of curing you as his surgery. But anyway, I know it's impossible to use reason to talk a person out of a belief when they did not use reason to come to that belief.


----------



## OCC7N

chargedcapacitor said:


> Oh it's not a belief or opinion, I spent years in school and on the job learning about _electronics. _These things are not governed by fairy dust, but by equations and years of compounded knowledge. Your ignorance is not equal to my expertise. It's like telling a brain surgeon that you are using homeopathy for your brain tumor, and it has just as good of a chance of curing you as his surgery. But anyway, I know it's impossible to use reason to talk a person out of a belief when they did not use reason to come to that belief.


So you mean there is no difference in headphone cables either?


----------



## kingoftown1

There's also no difference in sound between linear and switching power supplies, because volts are volts and amps are amps  I don't know what all you jabronis are doing spending $1k + on a Hypsos in the first place.  Here are some suggestions on what you can do with that stack of cash I just saved you:

Buy a run of Facebook ads saying "Science is Static"
Homeopathic medicine for your brain tumors, because if you were considering a hifi power supply you clearly have one
Isolation equipment for your solid state components
Fly Galen Gareis out to teach you something
Some really nice DC cables for your cheap switching power supplies.  AC power cords too.
Invest in a new hobby -- get that model train room started!
Take some unpaid time off work so you scoot your patoot over to the sound science forum to make an educational post about how DC cables don't matter
A gently used HD800


----------



## bluecar

chargedcapacitor said:


> Oh it's not a belief or opinion, I spent years in school and on the job learning about _electronics. _These things are not governed by fairy dust, but by equations and years of compounded knowledge. Your ignorance is not equal to my expertise. It's like telling a brain surgeon that you are using homeopathy for your brain tumor, and it has just as good of a chance of curing you as his surgery. But anyway, I know it's impossible to use reason to talk a person out of a belief when they did not use reason to come to that belief.


ah c'mon. Everyone knows that Engineering is just a simplified set of models, designed for folk who need to do stuff, but can't cope with Physics  (only joking, but couldnt resist...sorry)


----------



## Somatic

Wondering how the soundstage with Oor is vs headphone out of the Dave … soundstage is similar?


----------



## Somatic

chargedcapacitor said:


> Yes, unfortunately you probably read on this forum or others that having the right cables / DAC / amp will make the susvara bass hit hard. It won't, under any circumstance. That's just not what it's designed for. You can get certain aspects of the bass elevated by installing different pads, or doing the port mod. But it only works to varying degrees. Save your money, don't spend $$$$$ to get the susvara to be the headphone it can't be. Get an LCD, Utopia, or 1266. Try before you buy when you can!


You want bass get the Solitaire P. Better tonality than 1266 to my ears.


----------



## Somatic

adrianm said:


> I'm about to test this next week with Dave, once my Oor finally arrives. Dave's RCA outputs sound better in theory, but I'll see how it behaves with the amp.


How are you liking the Ferrum stack with the Dave? Did you end up going with the RCAs or XLRs?


----------



## Vozbujdenie

Hello folks. I have an issue with my new ferrum oor. Connected with ifi cable 4.4 to xlr to cayin n8ii balance line out . When I play music everything is fine ,but when I stop play music I hear consistent ground loop noise. Any ideas what can cause it?


----------



## adrianm

Somatic said:


> How are you liking the Ferrum stack with the Dave? Did you end up going with the RCAs or XLRs?


Absolutely love it, I stopped posting because of the zealots on the Dave thread. In hindsight my years there were wasted, because I actually believed the direct Dave crap. RCA is completely transparent, XLR did change the sound a bit. 
    Using the Elites and Z1R in single ended mode is clearly better than direct Dave, however when using the XLR out...it's crazy  Dynamics, layering, sound staging, all improve considerably. It feels like you're sitting in a concert hall and direct Dave is like listening from the bathroom stall. Everything sounds more diffuse, limp, muddy and crowded. 
    One reason why the Oor is great with Dave is that the RCA path is also balanced, just like the XLR, but you don't get the added distortion. Win Win. If you're after coloring Dave though, not the amp for it imo.
   I'm still auditioning different RCA cables and  probably ordering an XLR version of my meze silver cable.  I've been trying to modify my old Lavricables Grand, but it's turning out to be a nightmare. 
    Tbh it's hard even going back to listening to the Oor in SE mode, never mind direct Dave.


----------



## Gavin C4

Vozbujdenie said:


> Hello folks. I have an issue with my new ferrum oor. Connected with ifi cable 4.4 to xlr to cayin n8ii balance line out . When I play music everything is fine ,but when I stop play music I hear consistent ground loop noise. Any ideas what can cause it?


are you charging the N8ii while connecting it to the amp? Charging cause lots of noise introduced.


----------



## Somatic

adrianm said:


> Absolutely love it, I stopped posting because of the zealots on the Dave thread. In hindsight my years there were wasted, because I actually believed the direct Dave crap. RCA is completely transparent, XLR did change the sound a bit.
> Using the Elites and Z1R in single ended mode is clearly better than direct Dave, however when using the XLR out...it's crazy  Dynamics, layering, sound staging, all improve considerably. It feels like you're sitting in a concert hall and direct Dave is like listening from the bathroom stall. Everything sounds more diffuse, limp, muddy and crowded.
> One reason why the Oor is great with Dave is that the RCA path is also balanced, just like the XLR, but you don't get the added distortion. Win Win. If you're after coloring Dave though, not the amp for it imo.
> I'm still auditioning different RCA cables and  probably ordering an XLR version of my meze silver cable.  I've been trying to modify my old Lavricables Grand, but it's turning out to be a nightmare.
> Tbh it's hard even going back to listening to the Oor in SE mode, never mind direct Dave.


I see. So for more transparency go for the RCAs? Oor XLRs better then the SE? If so I’m going to have to ask Lavricables to reterminate to XLR. I think they waited me $80.


----------



## adrianm

Somatic said:


> Wondering how the soundstage with Oor is vs headphone out of the Dave … soundstage is similar?


No, it's MUCH wider, deeper and more separated. With Hqplayer it's so wide on some tracks you can hear things so far to the side, it sounds almost behind you.


----------



## Somatic

adrianm said:


> No, it's MUCH wider, deeper and more separated. With Hqplayer it's so wide on some tracks you can hear things so far to the side, it sounds almost behind you.


Oh damn. I wasn’t expecting that. Glad to hear there is more unlocked performance to be had. I wasn’t expecting much honestly. Was hoping but thought it would just sound a little bit better.


----------



## adrianm

Somatic said:


> Oh damn. I wasn’t expecting that. Glad to hear there is more unlocked performance to be had. I wasn’t expecting much honestly. Was hoping but thought it would just sound a little bit better.


I'm still kicking myself for not getting a separate amp sooner, but tbh, the HPA4 just sounded bad, and others didn't preserve Dave's sound signature like the Oor.
   Overall I'd say it's easily 30% better.


----------



## 801evan

Somatic said:


> Oh damn. I wasn’t expecting that. Glad to hear there is more unlocked performance to be had. I wasn’t expecting much honestly. Was hoping but thought it would just sound a little bit better.


Kindly list down some classical albums that has you hitting 3dB on the Dave.


----------



## Somatic

GoldenOne said:


> In regards to the discussion regarding 'distortion' and bypass mode on the OOR and whether you should use it, the OOR does indeed perform slightly better in bypass mode.
> 
> If we look at a realistic headphone listening level of about 700mv, here's what we get:
> 
> ...


So for Dave its better to go bypass mode and use built in preamp?


----------



## Somatic

Gavin C4 said:


> Yup, I totally agree. After some testing with Holo May, it seems to work really fine with -5 DB in headroom management and output to OOR. I used the volume pot on OOR for this pairing in mid gain and set the OOR to 28-30v power. It can totally handle the Susvara. The volume pot on the OOR is very well implemented.


Ok cool, so medium gain has the best measurements. Medium gain and bypass is the same?


----------



## adrianm

801evan said:


> Kindly list down some classical albums that has you hitting 3dB on the Dave.


Kindly listen to it yourself then come back and compare impressions. Power matters, current matters, noise matters. Dave's pre is measurably not great, Dave's headphone out measures 82 db snr vs 114 on the Oor from Dave via RCA and you're still here


----------



## adrianm (Aug 11, 2022)

Somatic said:


> Ok cool, so medium gain has the best measurements. Medium gain and bypass is the same?


It's not really apples to apples (That's with 4v input, Dave does 6v) to draw any conclusions for Dave, but it would seem you're better off using the Oor's pre from what i can tell. Medium Gain is 0 db in single ended, but it's +6db with XLR out. With the Elites, i prefer low gain (-4db), volume doesn't go past 11 o'clock anyway. Using 26v .


----------



## Somatic

adrianm said:


> Kindly listen to it yourself then come back and compare impressions. Power matters, current matters, noise matters. Dave's pre is measurably not great, Dave's headphone out measures 82 db snr vs 114 on the Oor from Dave via RCA and you're still here


Cool so you are using the DAC in DAC mode and Oor as preamp using RCA. Sounds good to me. I'll mess around with it.

@801evan I worked on my source. Got good power and a clean less jitter prone signal. Running off Lifatech Toslink. This has already made a big difference. Sounds great but just trying to squeeze some more performance from Susvara with a good amp. Have you tried the Oor in your setup? I think you might be amp adverse but I'm keeping an open mind. I'll let you know if I hear a difference. PEACE.


----------



## adrianm

Somatic said:


> Cool so you are using the DAC in DAC mode and Oor as preamp using RCA. Sounds good to me. I'll mess around with it.
> 
> @801evan I worked on my source. Got good power and a clean less jitter prone signal. Running off Lifatech Toslink. This has already made a big difference. Sounds great but just trying to squeeze some more performance from Susvara with a good amp. Have you tried the Oor in your setup? I think you might be amp adverse but I'm keeping an open mind. I'll let you know if I hear a difference. PEACE.


I've also spend half of what Dave costs on clean power. It does help, but that was part of the baseline. There's a big difference with the Elites, it's Gigantic with the Susvara. Had them side by side to test against each other.


----------



## Somatic

adrianm said:


> I've also spend half of what Dave costs on clean power. It does help, but that was part of the baseline. There's a big difference with the Elites, it's Gigantic with the Susvara. Had them side by side to test against each other.


Curious, what is your clean power setup. I think I remember you mentioning you didn't like the Farad3 with the Mscaler but I find it a huge upgrade vs stock SMPS on the Dave. Smoother, blacker, details pop up from nothingness.


----------



## OCC7N

Im all ears for clean source. Any recommendation?
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/best-power-conditioner-around-1500dollars.964439/page-3


----------



## adrianm (Aug 11, 2022)

Somatic said:


> Curious, what is your clean power setup. I think I remember you mentioning you didn't like the Farad3 with the Mscaler but I find it a huge upgrade vs stock SMPS on the Dave. Smoother, blacker, details pop up from nothingness.


Dave->Isotek Genesis one plugged into an Isotek Aquarius, where i also have my source and Oor/Hypsos in the high current sockets. I find the same thing with the Genesis


----------



## Somatic

adrianm said:


> Dave->Isotek Genesis one plugged into an Isotek Aquarius, where i also have my source and Oor/Hypsos in the high current sockets. I find the same thing with the Genesis


Wow that Genesis looks like a whopper. Big fella. 

You have a pic of your setup? Living room or desk setup? How much did you spend on the Genesis and Aquarius? Seems really cool though ...


----------



## adrianm

Somatic said:


> Wow that Genesis looks like a whopper. Big fella.
> 
> You have a pic of your setup? Living room or desk setup? How much did you spend on the Genesis and Aquarius? Seems really cool though ...


Around 3.5k? Not sure. Got the Aquarius 50% off on a sale. Well if you'll excuse the mess, the Aquarius also doubles as a paper bin holder :




Also had the Sirius before the Aquarius. Went through most of the Isotek range.


----------



## Somatic

adrianm said:


> Around 3.5k? Not sure. Got the Aquarius 50% off on a sale. Well if you'll excuse the mess, the Aquarius also doubles as a paper bin holder :
> 
> Also had the Sirius before the Aquarius. Went through most of the Isotek range.


Looks cool. So about the same I spent on the Farad3. Would be cool if someone A/B'd the difference in both these setups. I like the limited edition Elite. I rather have the black one than stock/silver.


----------



## Andrewteee

adrianm said:


> Around 3.5k? Not sure. Got the Aquarius 50% off on a sale. Well if you'll excuse the mess, the Aquarius also doubles as a paper bin holder :


What is the headphone stand? I could use one to fit two pairs. 

I've been looking at the Ferrum OOR too in a similar situation -- instead of the dCS Bartok headphone amp. I have the Elites and the DCA Stealth.


----------



## adrianm

Somatic said:


> Looks cool. So about the same I spent on the Farad3. Would be cool if someone A/B'd the difference in both these setups. I like the limited edition Elite. I rather have the black one than stock/silver.


Thanks, same here. I would, but i've wasted too much time and effort on improving Dave already. I love it, but i'm done. My next dac has to have an integrated streamer.
    I'll A/B it against Lina + clock soon to see if that could replace it down the line, but i doubt it. The Oor fixed all of the shortcomings I perceived it had. I love the crossfeed ( Works even better via Oor btw) , but i am curious to see if Expanse is actually better.



Andrewteee said:


> What is the headphone stand? I could use one to fit two pairs.


It's the one Woo audio sells.


----------



## adrianm

Andrewteee said:


> What is the headphone stand? I could use one to fit two pairs.
> 
> I've been looking at the Ferrum OOR too in a similar situation -- instead of the dCS Bartok headphone amp. I have the Elites and the DCA Stealth.


I might actually get the Stealth myself at one point, but the lack of dynamics put me off them. I'm sure if there's an amp that can squeeze some life out of  them, it's the Oor. Or the Zaehl...


----------



## Gavin C4

Somatic said:


> Ok cool, so medium gain has the best measurements. Medium gain and bypass is the same?


gain is the same as mid, but measurements are better in by pass.


----------



## Gavin C4

adrianm said:


> Around 3.5k? Not sure. Got the Aquarius 50% off on a sale. Well if you'll excuse the mess, the Aquarius also doubles as a paper bin holder :
> 
> Also had the Sirius before the Aquarius. Went through most of the Isotek range.





Althogh Hypsos is a very well built power supply, have a clean power actually benefit the entire chain. I am using Light Speed Reference Mark 3. It is a passive noise absorber, does not use any choke or coil that limits dynamic. Really silent background. Very obvious when using headphones with a very wide stage like Susvara.


----------



## Betzy (Aug 11, 2022)

Gavin C4 said:


> Previous 1.2, just update to latest 1.5 and listen for yourself. It’s free any ways , you paid for it when you purchased the Hypsos. It is really an improvement to listening experience.





Gavin C4 said:


> Those who are using the Hypsos OOR stack, remember to upgrade the Hypsos to the latest firm ware version 1.5. After upgrade and let it running and listening for few days, I have noticed that this new firmware has improvements to the sound quality. I can hear the details and micro details even clearly. The sound stage has slightly improved, wider and deeper. I guess Ferrum is listening to us here. This is a wonderful Firmware version.


Hello,
I was wondering if you can help me.

I also own the HYPSOS/OOR system and love it with my Susvaras.

I am running 12.0 firmware and wish to update …so I got out my pc and a micro usb cable and followed instractions on the ferrum websits with the files.

But, on my pc the updater shows “no device connected”

I tired everything but the updater will not recognize the HYPSOS.

Can you assist me….any ideas?….thank you.

Daniel


----------



## Gavin C4

Betzy said:


> Hello,
> I was wondering if you can help me.
> 
> I also own the HYPSOS/OOR system and love it with my Susvaras.
> ...


use another USBcable


----------



## 801evan

adrianm said:


> I might actually get the Stealth myself at one point, but the lack of dynamics put me off them.


But it's not....


----------



## Andrewteee

801evan said:


> But it's not....


Agree with this. It is different than the Stealth but it is not _not_ dynamic. It is fantastic.


----------



## bhdang

Betzy said:


> Hello,
> I was wondering if you can help me.
> 
> I also own the HYPSOS/OOR system and love it with my Susvaras.
> ...


You have to go into firmware that is under Information tab inside the menu settings, and select USB Update Mode to make the device scannable.


----------



## Somatic

Sajid Amit said:


> I got into the PrimaLunas after trying my Auteur with the EVO 200 integrated amp. I was very very impressed, promptly bought it, and that got me into PrimaLunas.
> 
> The EVO 200 also had this amazing synergy with the Raal SR1a. BEST I have heard. In fact, I raved about it everyone who would listen, and I was happy to see Raal incorporate el34 tubes in their new amp.
> 
> ...


Do you still own it?


----------



## Somatic

Hey everyone, just double checking if XLR out is the best to use for power or distortion measurements vs SE? Thanks


----------



## Sajid Amit

Somatic said:


> Do you still own it?


Nope.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Sajid Amit said:


> Nope.


I have cut down on my stable


----------



## Somatic

Sajid Amit said:


> I have cut down on my stable


I see. You seemed pretty smitten on it a while ago. I’m hoping I like it.


----------



## Delta9K (Aug 13, 2022)

Somatic said:


> I’m hoping I like it.


I hope that you do too.

 I'm not going to sit here and just gush a storm of love for the amp, how great, or how well it does with this or that. What I am going to say is that it did/does exactly what I was looking for and that is, synergize with the DAC and headphone I bought it for.

 I have a modest setup that to me sounds really, really good and for the first time in a while I am once again listening to my music and not fretting about "Do I have the right amp?" I am sure there are better out there but for now my ears are happy. The OOR/Hypsos has allowed me to relax and start listening to music again which is why I bought an amp in the first place... Also, I am now doing more things around the rest of my system, like upgrading sources, power cables, interconnects, headphone cables etc. etc., all of which help level up the entire system, and I was ignoring them because I was on a perpetual amplifier hunt.  Not to say that that I won't upgrade in the future, but for now I'm good.


----------



## 801evan

Somatic said:


> I see. You seemed pretty smitten on it a while ago. I’m hoping I like it.


Not surprised. He said Dave was disappointing and sold it within 2 weeks and then now has it as top 5 of his setup.


----------



## adrianm

Somatic said:


> Hey everyone, just double checking if XLR out is the best to use for power or distortion measurements vs SE? Thanks


People don't buy this to use in SE mode  From Ferrum's website :

*Output Power Single Ended: *400 mW into 300 Ω, 2 W into 60 Ω
*Output Power Balanced: *1.600 mW into 300 Ω, 8 W into 60 Ω


----------



## Somatic

adrianm said:


> People don't buy this to use in SE mode  From Ferrum's website :
> 
> *Output Power Single Ended: *400 mW into 300 Ω, 2 W into 60 Ω
> *Output Power Balanced: *1.600 mW into 300 Ω, 8 W into 60 Ω


I just saw this last night. Talking to Lavricables to reterminate my cable :/ lol


----------



## krude

Somatic said:


> I just saw this last night. Talking to Lavricables to reterminate my cable :/ lol


SE is for iems and more efficient headphones. Oor can drive anything pretty much. Well driven XLR will be too much for more efficient sets.


----------



## adrianm

krude said:


> SE is for iems and more efficient headphones. Oor can drive anything pretty much. Well driven XLR will be too much for more efficient sets.


You can always go low gain on the Elites, even Medium but Single ended, even on high gain, sounds much worse


----------



## Sajid Amit

Somatic said:


> I see. You seemed pretty smitten on it a while ago. I’m hoping I like it.


Yup. Its one of the best headamps for the Sus arouns that price point. Definitely impressive.


----------



## OCC7N

Are Ferrum recalling a batch or what?

 I keep hearing about issues with oor/hyp


----------



## Vozbujdenie

Maybe I have one with the issue. Like I mentioned before I have a ground loop noise with my cayin n8ii (xlr to 4.4) . Using with my elites I can hear it on any gain .


----------



## krude

Vozbujdenie said:


> Maybe I have one with the issue. Like I mentioned before I have a ground loop noise with my cayin n8ii (xlr to 4.4) . Using with my elites I can hear it on any gain .


Did you try any other source? Try plugging your phone via rca or anything really.


----------



## Vozbujdenie

Don't have anything else=) modern phones doesn't have plug in anymore =) waiting for rca cable to check if the same issue will be present with that connection . Just started my journey with desktop toys


----------



## Vozbujdenie

Also so far I really like elites on high gain (even knowing that it is really easy to drive ).


----------



## Somatic

adrianm said:


> Absolutely love it, I stopped posting because of the zealots on the Dave thread. In hindsight my years there were wasted, because I actually believed the direct Dave crap. RCA is completely transparent, XLR did change the sound a bit.
> Using the Elites and Z1R in single ended mode is clearly better than direct Dave, however when using the XLR out...it's crazy  Dynamics, layering, sound staging, all improve considerably. It feels like you're sitting in a concert hall and direct Dave is like listening from the bathroom stall. Everything sounds more diffuse, limp, muddy and crowded.
> One reason why the Oor is great with Dave is that the RCA path is also balanced, just like the XLR, but you don't get the added distortion. Win Win. If you're after coloring Dave though, not the amp for it imo.
> I'm still auditioning different RCA cables and  probably ordering an XLR version of my meze silver cable.  I've been trying to modify my old Lavricables Grand, but it's turning out to be a nightmare.
> Tbh it's hard even going back to listening to the Oor in SE mode, never mind direct Dave.


Oh for some reason I though RCA out was unbalanced. Why are you having issues modifying the lavricables grand cables? Are you modifying yourself?


----------



## adrianm

Somatic said:


> Oh for some reason I though RCA out was unbalanced. Why are you having issues modifying the lavricables grand cables? Are you modifying yourself?


Well RCA is unbalanced, however internally the Oor uses the same signal path for it as for the XLR. As for the balanced headphone cable, a friend of a friend did it for me, sounds great.
     I have the older Lavri Grand, with the solid core instead of Litz, and it was a lot more difficult to work with than expected. Less flexible and thicker.


----------



## hypnos1 (Aug 15, 2022)

Many months into my OOR/Hypsos setup now, and no longer pine for my beloved tube days...the uncanny precision; accuracy; lightning fast speed; zero 'noise'; clarity; controlled/smooth dynamics handling; micro/macro detail retrieval, with pinpoint separation and placement within a 3D stage that isn't - unlike many a tube's trick(!), falsely enhanced by over-reverberation/widening at the expense of correct/coherent imaging lol can, IMHO, surely be matched only by a tube amp pushing bankruptcy?!! 

I would add, however, that it craves top notch ability from the rest of the system, even including (controversially?) better than bog standard fuses throughout...more on which to follow. Fortunately, the Ferrum seems an ideal match for my Balanced Mains/Filtered-fed Chord mscaler/TT2/Empyrean combo... slaying direct hp out (as with Dave it would appear - and I agree!!).

Cables too - both power and signal will, of course, push OOR's performance ever higher. If at all possible/affordable, I personally recommend those using mono crystal OCC wire - silver especially (being a world away from 'ordinary' pure silver IMO), even in power cables I have found. However, I myself could only afford this luxury by making all my own cables, including dualing them(!) for improved EMI/RFI  suppression.

But the biggest surprise has just come from changing my music source - from the wonderful Antipodes DX streamer/player to...*a CD player!!* Having believed (wrongly) that the DX's SSD playback was almost as good as it gets, I was blown away by what a _good_ CD player can achieve, viz a Denon (SACD) DCD 1600NE. It literally outperformed the Antipodes in every area I mentioned previously, particularly in bass quality/quantity; overall FR balance, and precise detail separation/positioning within a crystal clear stage. I still cannot believe this double-edged sword of performance increase. Obviously, system matching/synergy is at play big time here...Rob Watts's upscaling trick (and transients handling) with the mscaler transforming basic RedBook CD quality to equal any hires material I have anywhere below 24 bit/176kHz (and even then only if _really_ well mastered!). Evidently, this Ferrum gear's _potential_ is greater even than many may realise methinks 

ps. Re. fuses, I managed to raise the Denon 1600NE's performance to easily match (via coax out at least) the £1000 more 2500NE, first by covering blank internal areas of the case and chassis with Dynamat Xtreme sound deadening mat to reduce vibration effects on sound, instead of the 2500's use of kgs of copper. Plus, I suspect that the Dynamat is actually _better_ at dealing with _resonances_ lol! The icing on the cake was to replace the (one of 3 and always cheap!) main power/audio internal fuse with a nice HiFi Tuning 'Supreme'...no need IMHO for a $200+ one!

In summary, I'm convinced that this Ferrum gear is the equal of anything at a much higher price and so represents tremendous value-for-money. Its understated (but classy) looks belie its true pedigree IMHO, and it surely deserves a much higher place in the headamp hierarchy...

pps. The Denon has also saved me a lot of money re upgrading my Empyreans...they now sound _much_ closer to my friend's Elite I was tempted by (but only courtesy of the (monster!) DIY dualled, multi-gauge solid Neotech UP-OCC silver + copper + ag-gd-wired hp cable).

ppps. And yes, XLR hp out from OOR is certainly better in my system....


----------



## ctrlm

A new YouTube review on the Oor

.....and it's long at nearly 45 minutes


----------



## jonathan c

Listen to Oor + Hypnos in a system…


----------



## Somatic

ctrlm said:


> A new YouTube review on the Oor
> 
> .....and it's long at nearly 45 minutes


Watched. Great review. I actually subscribed a long time ago. I agree with his assessment for the most part out of many reviewers. I primary agree with him and Sajid the most. Currawong at times ...


----------



## hypnos1 (Aug 15, 2022)

ctrlm said:


> A new YouTube review on the Oor
> 
> .....and it's long at nearly 45 minutes


Thanks for the headsup ctrlm...a very good, honest and enjoyable review. I must admit, however, that in my own system I don't find OOR in any way lacking in either resolution or 'attack', and in every way delivering superior performance over my TT2's direct out...highlighted particularly with the Denon DCD 1600 NE in place of the Antipodes DX as source. I suspect this could well be down to the usual caveat of _system dependence_, and which should IMHO be stressed more vehemently by all reviewers with a wide public especially...even Currawong lol

Edit : I suspect the mscaler is in fact boosting TT2's resolution/attack delivery, along with a good bit more.... and should actually hope so, given its price tag lol!

ps. I'm also wondering if a (nicely) smooth delivery can sometimes distract/fool/diminish the brain's _perception_ of 'attack'?...


----------



## Somatic

hypnos1 said:


> Wow...a real silver junkie lol!  And yes, making one's own DC cables also is surely beneficial...even for the 4 pin FPL cable, despite the standard barrel one looking very well made, with really nice plugs. Had to make my own 4 pin cable as it didn't come with the Hypsos I purchased, but I would have anyway...with the obligatory UP-OCC silver in well shielded dual configuration, and pure soft-annealed silver as pins this time as opposed to the wire itself (to ensure better contact).
> But ifi ipower x/elite better than Hypsos?...am I missing something here lol?!!


Those sound like great cables.


----------



## OCC7N (Aug 17, 2022)

I have a specific question for this Ferrum Stack OORHYPSOS.

Will Hypsos only benefit the OOR if I tweak/voltage it, or does the sound improve with "recommended" voltage for OOR?

I am not a tweaker on this regard ...I will not


----------



## hypnos1

OCC7N said:


> I have a specific question for this Ferrum Stack OORHYPSOS.
> 
> Will Hypsos only benefit the OOR if I tweak it to or does the sound improve with "recommended" voltage for OOR?
> 
> I am not a tweaker on this regard ...I will not


Hi OCC7N.

Much to my admiration, the youtube video link posted by ctrlm above waxes lyrical about this method of tweaking the sound in certain circumstances. In it, he focuses especially on totally transforming a set of cans' performance with OOR simply by reducing the Hypsos voltage out from 24V(nominal) to 22V. 

However, fortunately - and quite amazingly, this is only half the story. Perhaps of more (potential) use for those headphones that don't need this assistance (which are _most_, it would appear), is how this function can help possibly ameliorate something not quite to one's liking, either due to the recording quality or from somewhere else in the system. And most importantly, without any of the downsides often accompanying such as eq intervention or having to keep changing tubes in a tube amp!

 For example, _reducing_ voltage (to 22V if necessary) can reduce excessive harshness and regain OOR's smoothness without sacrifice. _Increasing_ V can give more dynamic boost and a bit of 'aggression' if needed/wanted. These are just the basic alterations...experimenting will bring one's own preferred 'signature'. The beauty of this trick is that it 's so _easy_, and with Hypsos's setting _*at the OOR*_, one cannot get into trouble because adjustment is fixed to just from 22V to a max of 30V...so nothing at all to worry about when tweaking this way. Coming from a tube lover who always craved an easier/safer way to tweak sound, this function is a wonderful addition to all the other qualities of this amazing particular amp and PS combo. Ferrum, I salute you!!


----------



## hypnos1 (Aug 18, 2022)

Somatic said:


> Those sound like great cables.


Thanks Somatic.

For years I'd been gradually more convinced of the benefits of better cables, especially for signal of course...the role of power cables came much later!

In short(?!), DIY experiments then led me first to the _wire(s) _used, eventually preferring 'pure', soft-annealed silver.._.until_ I discovered mono crystal OCC wire, only being able to afford the (very good) copper to begin with. But a trial with Neotech's UP-OCC Teflon coated silver (solid) had me hooked and unable to go back to anything else lol. Further experiments had me settling on a _combination _with copper (again solid) in most cases, plus some gold-infused (ag-gd) OCC for the Empyreans' cable.

Then came the actual _construction_. After searching for various nuggets of info from the likes of guys at Blue Jeans Cables, and Synergystic Research, I was totally sold on the idea of battling EMI/RFI effects (both external and _in_ternal) on sound not only via excellent screening but _just_ as important IMHO, by keeping signal/return, and pos/neg as far apart (and as short) as possible...hence by also _dualing_ the cables. This made sense to me not just for signal, but also power cables - mains and DC...both I found benefiting also from using silver wire _in my system_.

Finally - honest!, one of the biggest surprises came from breaking the 75 Ohm rule for coax cables...which happens when you increase distance between wire pairs by dualing instead of using a single cable's metal screen as return (sacrilege in my opinion!) - the lower capacitance and inductance resulting in lower impedance. As per the Blue Jeans guy, I have found that this recipe's benefits far outweigh any slight impedance mismatch, a major one being a good chance no further interference suppression is needed, such as a certain (expensive) cable that uses around 20 or so(!!) ferrite cores, apparently helping with certain of mscaler's ultra-high frequency 'quirks'...OUCH! Especially as _two_ are really needed, possibly three! For me, _one_ choke per cable is one too many lol!...unless absolutely needed 

Apologies for any indigestion caused...


----------



## OCC7N

hypnos1 said:


> Hi OCC7N.
> 
> Much to my admiration, the youtube video link posted by ctrlm above waxes lyrical about this method of tweaking the sound in certain circumstances. In it, he focuses especially on totally transforming a set of cans' performance with OOR simply by reducing the Hypsos voltage out from 24V(nominal) to 22V.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much. So I should rephrase my question and ask people how they like there voltage with Susvara ?  

-I remember one review said 30V was preferred for Susvara, becuase of high Ohm.


----------



## dudeX

OCC7N said:


> Thank you very much. So I should rephrase my question and ask people how they like there voltage with Susvara ?
> 
> -I remember one review said 30V was preferred for Susvara, becuase of high Ohm.


I have an OOR/Hypsos and originally I didn't hear a difference in voltages.
But after using my Zeus headphones which are very sensitive, I was getting fatigued by the upper range, so when I set it to 22.5 it reduced the treble bite so that it didn't bother me anymore.

Last time I checked my Susvara, I didn't hear a difference in voltage from lowest to highest, but ConvinceMeAudio (the guy in the last video) suggested 26 volts to help add more attack to transients. 

I think setting the voltage really depends on extended listening sessions. You will either like what you hear, or you will find something lacking or harsh. Then you can adjust.

My hearing tops out at 14khz so consider that a datapoint.


----------



## krude

OCC7N said:


> Thank you very much. So I should rephrase my question and ask people how they like there voltage with Susvara ?
> 
> -I remember one review said 30V was preferred for Susvara, becuase of high Ohm.


You are asking if you should invest in PSU for driving most notoriously hard to drive and capable headphones 🤠 in short, yes.

I would also consider Cayin HA300 mk2 to drive Susvara in similar budget, with Cayin you need to roll the tubes tho to get the most of it.


----------



## msq123

Great in depth review by ConvinceMeAudio with  comparisons against Chord TT2 and iFi pro iDSD signature


----------



## OCC7N (Aug 18, 2022)

msq123 said:


> Great in depth review by ConvinceMeAudio with  comparisons against Chord TT2 and iFi pro iDSD signature



I whish he added some more words on the TT2. But great that it atleast matches TT2 

EDIT: I keep changing my mind with amp....I was sure about enleum....Now this

EDIT2: Short he literaly says the idsd beats the tt2. Hmmmm

EDIT3: I don´t think his reviews are for me. I did listen to the idsd signature.


----------



## msq123

OCC7N said:


> I whish he added some more words on the TT2. But great that it atleast matches TT2
> 
> EDIT: I keep changing my mind with amp....I was sure about enleum....Now this


Review of TT2 is going to be released soon.

For me TT2 is a more versatile kit, in the sense that it is one box solution which I prefer on my desk and very few headphones it can’t drive with authority. It is one of the best all in combo at its price and to get better performance you will need to jump up to May which will need an equally good amp on top and that makes TT2 a good value proposition.


----------



## OCC7N (Aug 18, 2022)

msq123 said:


> Review of TT2 is going to be released soon.
> 
> For me TT2 is a more versatile kit, in the sense that it is one box solution which I prefer on my desk and very few headphones it can’t drive with authority. It is one of the best all in combo at its price and to get better performance you will need to jump up to May which will need an equally good amp on top and that makes TT2 a good value proposition.


TT2 is insane with AryaV2. Time stops for me vs my ifi diablo(1000hours+) and adi2(50hours+)

But I think I will buy the ferrum stack for susvara


----------



## msq123

OCC7N said:


> TT2 is insane with AryaV2. Time stops for me vs my (diablo and adi2)
> 
> But I think I will buy the ferrum stack for susvara


I think that’s fair, Susvara need a lot more juice than TT2 can provide.

Another option is benchmark ahb2 if it’s only Susvara you are after, it does even better as as Koji would tell you. Maybe jump on to his public telegram chat and there are many Susvara owners out there running on ahb2 power amp.


----------



## krude (Aug 18, 2022)

msq123 said:


> Review of TT2 is going to be released soon.
> 
> For me TT2 is a more versatile kit, in the sense that it is one box solution which I prefer on my desk and very few headphones it can’t drive with authority. It is one of the best all in combo at its price and to get better performance you will need to jump up to May which will need an equally good amp on top and that makes TT2 a good value proposition.


Very true, all Chord DACs are excellent if you can utilise their whole potential. When you go into amps then the equation becomes a lot more complex, especially factoring in the M Scaler. May plays in the league of Dave, and when you start scaling up your budget the DAC segment opens up with quite a few interesting options like Weis or even second hand MSB etc. Choices choices ...

It's easiest and cheapest to get a great all in one and just stick with it ... I wouldn't be able to : ) I like experimenting too much


----------



## OCC7N

krude said:


> Very true, all Chord DACs are excellent if you can utilise their whole potential. When you go into amps then the equation becomes a lot more complex, especially factoring in the M Scaler. May plays in the league of Dave, and when you start scaling up your budget the DAC segment opens up with quite a few interesting options like Weis or even second hand MSB etc. Choices choices ...
> 
> It's easiest and cheapest to get a great all in one and just stick with it ... I wouldn't be able to : ) I like experimenting too much


Im pretty stubborn when we move up in price. Even efter adi2 or my diablo. I think it becomes a preference. But thats another discussion/thread. I like my diablo more than tt2 with susvara. So thats my preference I guess.


----------



## hypnos1 (Aug 18, 2022)

OCC7N said:


> TT2 is insane with AryaV2. Time stops for me vs my ifi diablo(1000hours+) and adi2(50hours+)
> 
> But I think I will buy the ferrum stack for susvara


Go for it OCC7N!

Although my Empyreans are much easier to drive than the Susvara, the Ferrum combo really does outshine TT2's direct out (great though it is), especially in 'musicality').._.in my system_. And never more so than since replacing my Antipodes DX with the (slightly modded) Denon (SACD) DCD 1600NE as source...(source being a factor that's not focused upon near enough in reviews/assessments IMHO).

Anyway, still being very pleasantly surprised by the Ferrums' ability to make different genres of music so (uber)enjoyable, I've even just fallen in love once again with Crystal Gale and her 'Don't it make my brown eyes blue' ...more glamour in her little finger than Madonna, Beyonce et al combined lol . Or is that just a reflection of my age?...er, _*no!!*_


----------



## OCC7N (Aug 18, 2022)

hypnos1 said:


> Go for it OCC7N!
> 
> Although my Empyreans are much easier to drive than the Susvara, the Ferrum combo really does outshine TT2's direct out (great though it is)...in my system. And never more so than since replacing my Antipodes DX with the (slightly modded) Denon (SACD) DCD 1600NE as source...(source being a factor that's not focused upon near enough in reviews/assessments IMHO).
> 
> Anyway, still being very pleasantly surprised by the Ferrums' ability to make different genres of music so (uber)enjoyable, I've even just fallen in love once again with Crystal Gale and her 'Don't it make my brown eyes blue' ...more glamour in her little finger than Madonna, Beyonce et al combined lol . Or is that just a reflection of my age?...er, _*no!!*_


Im waiting for my jcat usb xe card + optimo nano, tommorow. Im excited to test if TT2 gains any advantage(loong awaited upgrade). But for Ferrum I think the purchase is going to be on the 1. September. I only have money for the OOR now. I should purchase the OOR now?


----------



## hypnos1 (Aug 18, 2022)

OCC7N said:


> Im waiting for my jcat usb xe card + optimo nano, tommorow. Im excited to test if TT2 gains any advantage(loong awaited upgrade). But for Ferrum I think the purchase is going to be on the 1. September. I only have money for the OOR now. I should purchase the OOR now?


Ah, decisions decisions...if only our wallets could breed at the rate my Koi are (still!) 

The Ferrums definitely scale with downstream (*Edit* : and _*up*_stream of course) quality, which is another reason I personally will never go back to any source that requires all the attention demanded for USB optimisation (eg a £600 Ethernet filter alone even for the Antipodes's already USB optimised configuration!)...and not even (superior IMHO) solid state feed (via coax etc), now the Denon blows them all away lol. And as for streaming quality?...no comment...

But bear in mind the OOR does need the Hypsos supply to give of its best, but after my eye opening experiments with replacing the Walwart PS of a Drop THX AAA 'One' amp with a (not expensive) LPS, I do wonder if the same might be _almost_ true for the OOR at a massive saving?!  Especially if Hypsos's variable V out isn't really needed (but can still be very useful in certain circumstances). However, the matching Ferrum units are _so_ lovely...

Good luck with your next step(s)...


----------



## OCC7N (Aug 18, 2022)

hypnos1 said:


> Ah, decisions decisions...if only our wallets could breed at the rate my Koi are (still!)
> 
> The Ferrums definitely scale with downstream quality, which is another reason I personally will never go back to any source that requires all the attention demanded for USB optimisation (eg a £600 Ethernet filter alone even for the Antipodes's already USB optimised configuration!)...and not even (superior IMHO) solid state feed (via coax etc), now the Denon blows them all away lol. And as for streaming quality?...no comment...
> 
> ...


Thanks. I have been curious about the chain quality alot since I first heard about clock/jitter, since JCAT and PINFAUN released there first cards they have always appealed, because of the feedbacks users gave...I think it makes sense to upgrade the usb and ssd, with this JCAT configuration.

Maybe I should find a LPS with 26V since most people find it the sweetspot.

EDIT: Naaah I will wait and order both on same time/date


----------



## Somatic

OCC7N said:


> Thanks. I have been curious about the chain quality alot since I first heard about clock/jitter, since JCAT and PINFAUN released there first cards they have always appealed, because of the feedbacks users gave...I think it makes sense to upgrade the usb and ssd, with this JCAT configuration.
> 
> Maybe I should find a LPS with 26V since most people find it the sweetspot.
> 
> EDIT: Naaah I will wait and order both on same time/date


I just bought a used one at a great price. Barely used. Under warranty. You just need original invoice. I double checked with the team at Ferrum.


----------



## OCC7N

Somatic said:


> I just bought a used one at a great price. Barely used. Under warranty. You just need original invoice. I double checked with the team at Ferrum.


Nice! If I remember correctly you also a new owner of an susvara right?

Cant wait to hear about your impressions


----------



## Somatic

OCC7N said:


> Nice! If I remember correctly you also a new owner of an susvara right?
> 
> Cant wait to hear about your impressions


I've had it for 2 years or so. Almost sold it but changed my chain and focusing on getting the best from it. I like the Susvara out of the Dave vs TT2.


----------



## Somatic

Not the smartest setup configuration. We will see how it fairs with heat dissipation. Eventually i can get a Hifi cabinet when I get more space in my home office.

You have the Pyramids in Egypt and this stack LOL ... Poland, Holland, Britain represent.


----------



## adrianm

Somatic said:


> Not the smartest setup configuration. We will see how it fairs with heat dissipation. Eventually i can get a Hifi cabinet when I get more space in my home office.
> 
> You have the Pyramids in Egypt and this stack LOL ... Poland, Holland, Britain represent.


Since we're sharing stacks...


----------



## Somatic

adrianm said:


> Since we're sharing stacks...


Thats quite a stack!! Are you trying out the DCS stack? How are you liking it?


----------



## adrianm

Somatic said:


> Thats quite a stack!! Are you trying out the DCS stack? How are you liking it?


Better than I expected, worse than I hoped. It's 6v balanced output is also way too much for the Oor. Very static-y.


----------



## dudeX

OCC7N said:


> I have a specific question for this Ferrum Stack OORHYPSOS.
> 
> Will Hypsos only benefit the OOR if I tweak/voltage it, or does the sound improve with "recommended" voltage for OOR?
> 
> I am not a tweaker on this regard ...I will not


One thing I want to mention, I think the OOR does a good job with the Susvara, but after hearing the Susvara on Hifiman EF1000 at CanJamNYC, I like that sound a lot more. I am going to eventually get something powerful like an AHB2 or something to give Susvara the juice it needs to sound its best.

That being said the OOR is great with my other headphones. My old Drop Senn. 6xx is really nice on the OOR (and May...) and because of that I won't sell it.


----------



## OCC7N (Aug 18, 2022)

dudeX said:


> One thing I want to mention, I think the OOR does a good job with the Susvara, but after hearing the Susvara on Hifiman EF1000 at CanJamNYC, I like that sound a lot more. I am going to eventually get something powerful like an AHB2 or something to give Susvara the juice it needs to sound its best.
> 
> That being said the OOR is great with my other headphones. My old Drop Senn. 6xx is really nice on the OOR (and May...) and because of that I won't sell it.


Which means Enleum could do it better right? 😅

EDIT: yall gonna make me buy ahb2


----------



## Somatic

So far I'm liking the headphone out of my Chord Dave + Farad3 more for sensitive headphones like Solitaire P and IEMs like Final A8000. I will try the Susvara's later today or tomorrow. Need to get the balanced XLR cable from the garage.

So far for sensitive headphones, I feel the headphone out with Farad3 has a more brighter treble signature. Not sibilant but just clean extended high end. The Ferrum stack subdues the highs a bit with its warmness. Some transparency I feel is lost. Ferrum does add a hint of warmth but subtle. Not sure what is going on in the soundstage. Sounds similar.

Hoping the Susvara will shine much better if not, might go to the tried and true AHB2 I have used before.


----------



## Somatic

dudeX said:


> One thing I want to mention, I think the OOR does a good job with the Susvara, but after hearing the Susvara on Hifiman EF1000 at CanJamNYC, I like that sound a lot more. I am going to eventually get something powerful like an AHB2 or something to give Susvara the juice it needs to sound its best.
> 
> That being said the OOR is great with my other headphones. My old Drop Senn. 6xx is really nice on the OOR (and May...) and because of that I won't sell it.


Is the EF1000 more of an analytical sound?


----------



## dudeX

Somatic said:


> Is the EF1000 more of an analytical sound?


Hard to say since I spent like 10 minutes with it. What I heard was a wider soundstage, great dynamics (kick drums move the air in my ear, every other instrument is discernible at various sound levels, bass is satisfying), and more spacing around the instruments. The Susvara sounded a lot more like what I read in the reviews, at the time, I only had the Topping A90 to compare to, but I knew that the Topping lacked proper dynamics, had a boxed in soundstage, but it did deliver transparancy pretty well.

The EF1000 did the Susvara justice. Whether it's not great for all genres because it has a type of signature, I won't know (to date I have yet to read a review on it) but it did confirm that the Susvara loves clean power, more than Ferrum's 8 watts, and more than Enleun's 4 watts.


----------



## krude (Aug 19, 2022)

dudeX said:


> Hard to say since I spent like 10 minutes with it. What I heard was a wider soundstage, great dynamics (kick drums move the air in my ear, every other instrument is discernible at various sound levels, bass is satisfying), and more spacing around the instruments. The Susvara sounded a lot more like what I read in the reviews, at the time, I only had the Topping A90 to compare to, but I knew that the Topping lacked proper dynamics, had a boxed in soundstage, but it did deliver transparancy pretty well.
> 
> The EF1000 did the Susvara justice. Whether it's not great for all genres because it has a type of signature, I won't know (to date I have yet to read a review on it) but it did confirm that the Susvara loves clean power, more than Ferrum's 8 watts, and more than Enleun's 4 watts.


Oor has the same or more power than EF1000 btw (50 into 8 Ohms for EF1000 and 8 into 60 Ohms for Oor). I didn't have the chance to hear AHB2 with Susvara, but I heard it's about 5% difference, so not that much for me. It took me about a month to figure Susvara out with May and Oor and it can sound soft and squishy on that setup, ultra clean and transparent or dynamic and kicking. A lot seems to ride on the DAC as well. It needs to be going full swing close to 0dbFS. Somehow Windows is doing a better job than Mac as well for me 🤔


----------



## adrianm

Somatic said:


> So far I'm liking the headphone out of my Chord Dave + Farad3 more for sensitive headphones like Solitaire P and IEMs like Final A8000. I will try the Susvara's later today or tomorrow. Need to get the balanced XLR cable from the garage.
> 
> So far for sensitive headphones, I feel the headphone out with Farad3 has a more brighter treble signature. Not sibilant but just clean extended high end. The Ferrum stack subdues the highs a bit with its warmness. Some transparency I feel is lost. Ferrum does add a hint of warmth but subtle. Not sure what is going on in the soundstage. Sounds similar.
> 
> Hoping the Susvara will shine much better if not, might go to the tried and true AHB2 I have used before.


Are you using Rca into Dave and Xlr out for the headphones? And do you use crossfeed?


----------



## adrianm

Somatic said:


> Not the smartest setup configuration. We will see how it fairs with heat dissipation. Eventually i can get a Hifi cabinet when I get more space in my home office.
> 
> You have the Pyramids in Egypt and this stack LOL ... Poland, Holland, Britain represent.


This arrangement would give me ocd about rf noise


----------



## OCC7N

If I dont buy the hypsos. Will OOR still beat the iCAN Pro Sig?


----------



## msq123

OCC7N said:


> If I dont buy the hypsos. Will OOR still beat the iCAN Pro Sig?


According to the review by CMA value proposition isn’t great without hypsos. It’s $500 too expensive as a stand-alone amp so unless you plan to add later you could have better options elsewhere


----------



## adrianm

msq123 said:


> According to the review by CMA value proposition isn’t great without hypsos. It’s $500 too expensive as a stand-alone amp so unless you plan to add later you could have better options elsewhere


FYI i don't like it as much without Hypsos either. Even with sensitive Elites.


----------



## OCC7N

msq123 said:


> According to the review by CMA value proposition isn’t great without hypsos. It’s $500 too expensive as a stand-alone amp so unless you plan to add later you could have better options elsewhere


its just that I maybe will be waiting for the real headphone amp for Susvara. I thought buying iCAN could make the wait worth.

Hypsos is not cheap either…


----------



## adrianm

Somatic said:


> So far for sensitive headphones, I feel the headphone out with Farad3 has a more brighter treble signature. Not sibilant but just clean extended high end. The Ferrum stack subdues the highs a bit with its warmness. Some transparency I feel is lost.


Besides making sure you use good RCA cables, I would also keep in mind that Dave does have measurably higher distortion in the high end :


----------



## msq123

OCC7N said:


> its just that I maybe will be waiting for the real headphone amp for Susvara. I thought buying iCAN could make the wait worth.
> 
> Hypsos is not cheap either…


If it’s just to power Susvara  then maybe AhB2 is a better option out if your TT2? And I think it will be the same price


----------



## OCC7N (Aug 19, 2022)

msq123 said:


> If it’s just to power Susvara  then maybe AhB2 is a better option out if your TT2? And I think it will be the same price


I will only buy oor or ican pro sig. This is a temporary buy til the day comes, where a headphone amp can brings justice to the Susvara. Like a real poweramp.

As far as I know. There is no headphone amp that can deliver what Susvara wants.

....I am not gonna forget Soloist 3X GT. A great deal on this one, might change my decision.

iCan vs OOR vs Soloist 3X GT?


----------



## hypnos1

OCC7N said:


> I will only buy oor or ican pro sig. This is a temporary buy til the day comes, where a headphone amp can brings justice to the Susvara. Like a real poweramp.
> 
> As far as I know. There is no headphone amp that can deliver what Susvara wants.
> 
> ...



Hey OCC7N...looks like you could be headed for the dreaded magic roundabout nausea soon lol! ...have had that _many _ times over the years in this 'relaxing'?!! hobby of ours 

Needless to say, the best bet would be to try and find a kindly dealer who'll let you have one on demo...any chance at all? Really is the _only_ way to know of course, given the vagaries of different systems/environments alas. 

Perhaps a perusal of a 6 Moons review might give some pointers : https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/ferrum-oor/5/

But be warned, the whole article takes some ploughing through, with waffle far worse even than mine lol! Page 5 seems to give the most easily digestible/relevant for us morsels however, as far as I'm concerned! But within the whole there's still some interesting info, and he certainly seems to know his stuff, without getting _too_ technical...

Good luck...and don't forget to keep taking the seasickness tablets lol!!


----------



## krude (Aug 19, 2022)

hypnos1 said:


> Hey OCC7N...looks like you could be headed for the dreaded magic roundabout nausea soon lol! ...have had that _many _ times over the years in this 'relaxing'?!! hobby of ours
> 
> Needless to say, the best bet would be to try and find a kindly dealer who'll let you have one on demo...any chance at all? Really is the _only_ way to know of course, given the vagaries of different systems/environments alas.
> 
> ...


I wanted to write the same thing, so I echo your post @hypnos1 . It's easy to get lost in the reviews, gear, especially if your budget is tight etc.

I would recommend everyone in the hobby stepping up to TOTL tier to :
1. Be honest with yourself, what do you really want from your system? (detail, clarity, reference monitor sound, thundering bass etc.)
2. What music do you listen to?

With those 2 answered honestly, you need to build a system to achieve this.
1. Pick a headphone that is easily capable
2. Pick an amp for this headphone to get it to sing
3. Complement it with a DAC to finish off the system
(for certain headphones like Susvara you need a synergetic DAC + AMP combo for best results)

Unfortunately you need to test all of this at home, there is no other way. Otherwise we can sit here all day throwing phrases like "there's no headphone amp that can drive Susvara" etc. which doesn't mean anything really. If you like soft presentation with great timbre most amps will drive Susvara just fine, anyway, without experiencing it for yourself none of the talking makes any sesnse anyway.


----------



## OCC7N (Aug 19, 2022)

hypnos1 said:


> Hey OCC7N...looks like you could be headed for the dreaded magic roundabout nausea soon lol! ...have had that _many _ times over the years in this 'relaxing'?!! hobby of ours
> 
> Needless to say, the best bet would be to try and find a kindly dealer who'll let you have one on demo...any chance at all? Really is the _only_ way to know of course, given the vagaries of different systems/environments alas.
> 
> ...





krude said:


> I wanted to write the same thing, so I echo your post @hypnos1 . It's easy to get lost in the reviews, gear, especially if your budget is tight etc.
> 
> I would recommend everyone in the hobby stepping up to TOTL tier to :
> 1. Be honest with yourself, what do you really want from your system? (detail, clarity, reference monitor sound, tundering bass etc.)
> ...


Thank you both. You are right. I have never had so much confusing after buying a headphone. I was set on Enleum, but then I read about there confusing backstory, and people start calling it a meme amp.

So it hit me, there is no headphone amp that can solve my problem...yet. When that day comes where everybody is justifying headphone amp(NOT A POWERRAMP) for Susvara, Im headed for that...


But for now I have to look at something that can bring atleast 80% justice to the Susvaras.

And those moons reviews: I have to study philosophy before I can understand them. I find them annoying actually


----------



## Somatic

adrianm said:


> Are you using Rca into Dave and Xlr out for the headphones? And do you use crossfeed?


Yea RCA into Dave. Super cheap Amazon Basic cable until Monday. Didn’t try the XLR yet. Regarding crossfeed I do not see an option to use it in Dac mode on the Dave.


----------



## krude

OCC7N said:


> Thank you both. You are right. I have never had so much confusing after buying a headphone. I was set on Enleum, but then I read about there confusing backstory, and people start calling it a meme amp.
> 
> So it hit me, there is no headphone amp that can solve my problem...yet. When that day comes where everybody is justifying headphone amp(NOT A POWERRAMP) for Susvara, Im headed for that...
> 
> ...


There's plenty of amps out there that can do Susvara justice. It's a question of preference and expectations. Anything from Soloist 3XP, Soloist GT, SMSL SP400, Cayin HA6a, Cayin HA300 MK2, Oor + Hypsos, iCan Signature, Woo WA33, Feliks Envy, those are just a few and all of them will drive Susvara very well. The question is knowing what do you want from your system, testing the amps back to back on a capable DAC and discovering what each one brings to the table. Each of the amps above will sound different and in some you can also roll elements like tubes or op-amps to get the sound you want.

This is just my experience.


----------



## Somatic

adrianm said:


> Besides making sure you use good RCA cables, I would also keep in mind that Dave does have measurably higher distortion in the high end :


Maybe I like the distortion? Lol. I wonder how the Farad3 changes these measurements. Well I’m sure the asusvara will sound better. I’m just saying with sensitive headphones I still preferred the Dave Farad3


----------



## adrianm

Somatic said:


> Yea RCA into Dave. Super cheap Amazon Basic cable until Monday. Didn’t try the XLR yet. Regarding crossfeed I do not see an option to use it in Dac mode on the Dave.


Plug in an adapter while playing music on the oor, it switches automatically to headphone mode. Alternatively, you can just leave it on, and it will remain on in dac mode.


Somatic said:


> Maybe I like the distortion? Lol. I wonder how the Farad3 changes these measurements. Well I’m sure the asusvara will sound better. I’m just saying with sensitive headphones I still preferred the Dave Farad3


Balanced connection or single ended?


----------



## Somatic

adrianm said:


> Plug in an adapter while playing music on the oor, it switches automatically to headphone mode. Alternatively, you can just leave it on, and it will remain on in dac mode.
> 
> Balanced connection or single ended?


So far single ended. I will have more to report soon


----------



## adrianm

Somatic said:


> So far single ended. I will have more to report soon


That explains it. It was my initial impression as well. I wouldn't have bought it with the SE performance.


----------



## Somatic

adrianm said:


> That explains it. It was my initial impression as well. I wouldn't have bought it with the SE performance.


Do you find the voltage differences apparent or subtle?


----------



## hypnos1 (Aug 19, 2022)

OCC7N said:


> Thank you both. You are right. I have never had so much confusing after buying a headphone. I was set on Enleum, but then I read about there confusing backstory, and people start calling it a meme amp.
> 
> So it hit me, there is no headphone amp that can solve my problem...yet. When that day comes where everybody is justifying headphone amp(NOT A POWERRAMP) for Susvara, Im headed for that...
> 
> ...


Seems to me the Susvaras were in fact possibly a tad premature for the market?!...for most folks at least  And I certainly feel that Meze for example used a broader, more appropriate market analysis introducing their Elite. But the whole area of (overpriced, many would say) current higher end headphones is yet another minefield in the entire hifi sound arena alas... And never more so for myself than with my previously described experience re. my friend's Elite vs my 'special'-cabled Empyreans with the Denon CD player newly in situ. The difference is way beyond expectation, with an even greater WOW factor than that of his Elites fed by the amazing T&A HA200 instead of the Ferrum combo (with mscaler/TT2). Hence, so many 'rules' in this game can in fact be (surprisingly) broken, even against all the odds lol! 

And yes...articles such as the 6moons review can indeed be _very_ annoying. But not just theirs lol! Patience and persistence galore are sometimes needed to weigh through pedantic filler and sift out some possible gems of info...think panning a pile of sediment to (hopefully) find sometimes small, sometimes large gold nuggets!! Can often be well worth the effort and frustration...

ps. I'm quite sure the Ferrum combo is hitting above even 80% with the Susvaras...would love to here some percentages from folks here who seem to have gone a bit quiet recently lol?


----------



## adrianm

Somatic said:


> Do you find the voltage differences apparent or subtle?


With the Susvara it was very apparent, I hated it on anything below 28v. With the Elites it's more subtle, but you definitely get more kick at 26v compared to 22. I've found 28 a bit much.


----------



## Somatic

rsbrsvp said:


> A few more insights on oor/hypsos from my short demonstration:
> 
> This amp. does not extend the frequencies like many super amps. do.  However- to my ears, those ss amps that do so have a slightly hollow midrange.  This amp. is so so even keeled and delivers each frequency range in almost perfect balance without stressing one over the other.  I love how tight and clean the bass is without exaggerating it.  I love how the treble is just so so easygoing and lacks that last drop of sharpness that many other amplifiers have- but is more organic.  And the midrange is king here-- not hallow at all; just right...     How about soundstage?  I have heard bigger.  But bigger soundstage on ss designs almost always hollows the midrange a bit IMHO.  The soundstage here is not huge, it is seemingly correct, more intimate, more believable. Again, it technically does not beat everything out there- but it is incredibly technically competent while being so so organic and so pleasant- it is addictive.
> 
> ...


Do you think the AHB2 will have some recessed midrange?


----------



## Somatic

What’s the deal with the new motherboard? Is it 4.2?


----------



## K3cT

Lots of second hand units popping up recently. I wonder what happened.


----------



## Somatic

K3cT said:


> Lots of second hand units popping up recently. I wonder what happened.


Yeah. I’m not sure. It’s good. Not going to lie. Maybe it’s too warm for some people?


----------



## Somatic

krude said:


> Oor has the same or more power than EF1000 btw (50 into 8 Ohms for EF1000 and 8 into 60 Ohms for Oor). I didn't have the chance to hear AHB2 with Susvara, but I heard it's about 5% difference, so not that much for me. It took me about a month to figure Susvara out with May and Oor and it can sound soft and squishy on that setup, ultra clean and transparent or dynamic and kicking. A lot seems to ride on the DAC as well. It needs to be going full swing close to 0dbFS. Somehow Windows is doing a better job than Mac as well for me 🤔


AHB2 is dead neutral. More transparent. More “clinical” sounding. Wider soundstage. Slight deeper bass. 

Ferrum stack has a nice warm coloration. Decreases soundstage a bit. Treble is darker and less offensive. I feel these would pair excellent with 1266-TC


----------



## Somatic

OCC7N said:


> Which means Enleum could do it better right? 😅
> 
> EDIT: yall gonna make me buy ahb2


I think Enleaum will be very colored and warm sounding. If I remember correctly it seems to have more distortion


----------



## krude

Somatic said:


> AHB2 is dead neutral. More transparent. More “clinical” sounding. Wider soundstage. Slight deeper bass.
> 
> Ferrum stack has a nice warm coloration. Decreases soundstage a bit. Treble is darker and less offensive. I feel these would pair excellent with 1266-TC


It does pair very well with the TC 👌


----------



## Somatic

Ferrum stack does imbue a sense of musicality in the system with Susvara. All genres seem to do well and nothing sounded offensive.


----------



## Somatic

krude said:


> It does pair very well with the TC 👌


I can see the Ferrum pairing well with Susvara depending on what you are going for. If going for tonal balance, a bit more mid forward energy and a more safe treble than its perfect. 

If you love the Susvara air and plankton up top there might be other choices that might suit it better.


----------



## adrianm

Somatic said:


> Ferrum stack does imbue a sense of musicality in the system with Susvara. All genres seem to do well and nothing sounded offensive.


I actually have a friend who sold his Oor for Enleum and is looking to buy it again. Too bad you're not in the EU.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

I had been pairing my Ferrum Orr + Hypsos with my Chord Hugo TT2 and Mscaler.   It sounds great, but not better than my Ampsandsound Rockwell which I also pair with my TT2 on the RCA outputs.     I just picked up an estat headphone (Stax SR-007 mki) and amp (Mjolnir HGSSHV Carbon) and so the dual XLR ports on my TT2 are now occupied by my Mjolnir Carbon amp.    So, was wondering what I would do with my Ferrum Orr.   I have had a Chord Hugo 2 / 2go just sitting around collecting dust.   So, I thought I could create a nightstand solution with the Ferrum Orr and Hugo 2.    So, I connected them and voila.   Magic occurred.   This is an excellent pairing for listening with Susvara.   The Analytical nature of the Hugo 2 with the warmer Ferrum Orr have excellent synergy for a very clean and musical presentation of music.   Listening to Oscar Peterson Trio with it and the sound is very realistic and pleasant.    So happy with this set up.


----------



## Somatic

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I had been pairing my Ferrum Orr + Hypsos with my Chord Hugo TT2 and Mscaler.   It sounds great, but not better than my Ampsandsound Rockwell which I also pair with my TT2 on the RCA outputs.     I just picked up an estat headphone (Stax SR-007 mki) and amp (Mjolnir HGSSHV Carbon) and so the dual XLR ports on my TT2 are now occupied by my Mjolnir Carbon amp.    So, was wondering what I would do with my Ferrum Orr.   I have had a Chord Hugo 2 / 2go just sitting around collecting dust.   So, I thought I could create a nightstand solution with the Ferrum Orr and Hugo 2.    So, I connected them and voila.   Magic occurred.   This is an excellent pairing for listening with Susvara.   The Analytical nature of the Hugo 2 with the warmer Ferrum Orr have excellent synergy for a very clean and musical presentation of music.   Listening to Oscar Peterson Trio with it and the sound is very realistic and pleasant.    So happy with this set up.


I actually think this new setup could sound better. Analytical Hugo 2 and warm Oor. Best of both worlds.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Aug 21, 2022)

Somatic said:


> I actually think this new setup could sound better. Analytical Hugo 2 and warm Oor. Best of both worlds.


It's a nice and clear signature with lots of energy, but I just A/B tested Hugo 2 vs TT2 with mscaler and it isn't even close.   The TT2 is way better.

The Hugo 2 sounds thin like it needs more current.   The TT2 delivers a great bass response.


----------



## hypnos1

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> It's a nice and clear signature with lots of energy, but I just A/B tested Hugo 2 vs TT2 with mscaler and it isn't even close.   The TT2 is way better.
> 
> The Hugo 2 sounds thin like it needs more current.   The TT2 delivers a great bass response.


Agree, HFH...my Hugo2 sits pining in the attic alas ...TT2, even without mscaler is indeed quite a different beast. And _with_ HMS...helps the Ferrum combo shine especially nicely - for me anyway lol


----------



## hypnos1 (Aug 22, 2022)

Delta9K said:


> I hope that you do too.
> 
> I'm not going to sit here and just gush a storm of love for the amp, how great, or how well it does with this or that. What I am going to say is that it did/does exactly what I was looking for and that is, synergize with the DAC and headphone I bought it for.
> 
> I have a modest setup that to me sounds really, really good and for the first time in a while I am once again listening to my music and not fretting about "Do I have the right amp?" I am sure there are better out there but for now my ears are happy. The OOR/Hypsos has allowed me to relax and start listening to music again which is why I bought an amp in the first place... Also, I am now doing more things around the rest of my system, like upgrading sources, power cables, interconnects, headphone cables etc. etc., all of which help level up the entire system, and I was ignoring them because I was on a perpetual amplifier hunt.  Not to say that that I won't upgrade in the future, but for now I'm good.


Such wise and sensible words Delta9K...and an enviable position to be at in one's oft tortu(r!)ous hifi journey.

Although I have myself been (over?)waxing lyrical in praise of the Ferrum stack and after years of constant (and often exhausting!) analysis/assessment/upgrading of the entire chain, I too am overjoyed (nay _relieved_) to now be able to "relax and start _listening_ to", and really _enjoy _all my music...more so than ever before. Once again, my thanks go to the guys at Ferrum..


----------



## hypnos1 (Aug 22, 2022)

K3cT said:


> Lots of second hand units popping up recently. I wonder what happened.


Reasons can, of course, be many and varied. I for one don't fret too much, unless _serious_ issues get out there in the Ether lol ...especially as quite often expectations might be a little off target; system mismatch; personal preference; nowhere near long enough time given for meaningful assessment etc. I personally believe the last to apply far more often than folks realise...(sorry, but those who think they can get the _true_ nature/flavour/nuances/capabilities of a piece of equipment - amps and cans especially, without _extended_, repeated testing sessions of material known inside out (and over a long period of time) are severely mistaken I'm afraid). *Edit : *Psychoacoustics Rule OK!!...

As for the recent Ferrums, reasons such as downsizing in favour of just the TT2; wanting something warmer(??!!) etc don't worry me in the slightest lol  
And re any equipment 'niggles', this applies to _all_ electronic gear of course, irrespective of cost. One has to hope not to get _too_ unlucky, but if so, that warranties cover them...or elicit a sympathetic ear from a reputable maker if not!


----------



## adrianm

hypnos1 said:


> I personally believe the last to apply far more often than folks realise...(sorry, but those who think they can get the _true_ nature/flavour/nuances/capabilities of a piece of equipment - amps and cans especially, without _extended_, repeated testing sessions of material known inside out (and over a long period of time) are severely mistaken I'm afraid).


I agree 100% here. Case in point : i've had the Lina stack for 4 days. Was initially unimpressed. 2-3 days in impressions changed to 180 degrees. Spoiler Alert : the Oor is MUCH better than the Lina amp. So much so that it makes or breaks the stack.


----------



## Somatic

hypnos1 said:


> Reasons can, of course, be many and varied. I for one don't fret too much, unless _serious_ issues get out there in the Ether lol ...especially as quite often expectations might be a little off target; system mismatch; personal preference; nowhere near long enough time given for meaningful assessment etc. I personally believe the last to apply far more often than folks realise...(sorry, but those who think they can get the _true_ nature/flavour/nuances/capabilities of a piece of equipment - amps and cans especially, without _extended_, repeated testing sessions of material known inside out (and over a long period of time) are severely mistaken I'm afraid). *Edit : *Psychoacoustics Rule OK!!...
> 
> As for the recent Ferrums, reasons such as downsizing in favour of just the TT2; wanting something warmer(??!!) etc don't worry me in the slightest lol
> And re any equipment 'niggles', this applies to _all_ electronic gear of course, irrespective of cost. One has to hope not to get _too_ unlucky, but if so, that warranties cover them...or elicit a sympathetic ear from a reputable maker if not!


I could be one of the severely mistaken. I just wanted a different sound signature than Oor but enjoyed it for what it was. Very good amp, just looking for wider soundstage and more analytical. That’s why I’m going with AHB2 again which I had for 1 year. But I agree, minds and ears change after a while.


----------



## adrianm

Somatic said:


> I could be one of the severely mistaken. I just wanted a different sound signature than Oor but enjoyed it for what it was. Very good amp, just looking for wider soundstage and more analytical. That’s why I’m going with AHB2 again which I had for 1 year. But I agree, minds and ears change after a while.


Well you like what you like. It also depends how you use Dave. Do you use HQP/M-scaler? Do you use Crossfeed? that all matters and changes the equation drastically. At least for me. I used HQP for a bigger soundstage, but didn't like what it did to timbre. Now that I have Oor, i'll probably go back to solo Dave.


----------



## Somatic

adrianm said:


> Well you like what you like. It also depends how you use Dave. Do you use HQP/M-scaler? Do you use Crossfeed? that all matters and changes the equation drastically. At least for me. I used HQP for a bigger soundstage, but didn't like what it did to timbre. Now that I have Oor, i'll probably go back to solo Dave.


I’m with solo Dave. I did like the Farad3 addition a lot. I’m no longer using upsampling. Clean source with toslink. Works well. 

Oor is G status. All songs sound good. I just want more sparkle with the Susvara even if I lose some soul. I have the SolP which are great all around cans as well.


----------



## hypnos1

adrianm said:


> I agree 100% here. Case in point : i've had the Lina stack for 4 days. Was initially unimpressed. 2-3 days in impressions changed to 180 degrees. Spoiler Alert : the Oor is MUCH better than the Lina amp. So much so that it makes or breaks the stack.


Wow adrian...OOR better than the £8400 Lina amp? Count me suitably impressed...not to mention happy with my purchase. Or should that be happ_ier!!_


----------



## adrianm

hypnos1 said:


> Wow adrian...OOR better than the £8400 Lina amp? Count me suitably impressed...not to mention happy with my purchase. Or should that be happ_ier!!_


Unfortunately that's now saying much, it's not very impressive. Very small soundstage even with Elites. In all dimensions. Not as much impact either.  I'm not sure what those reviewers saying it can drive Susvara are thinking.


----------



## hypnos1

adrianm said:


> Well you like what you like. It also depends how you use Dave. Do you use HQP/M-scaler? Do you use Crossfeed? that all matters and changes the equation drastically. At least for me. I used HQP for a bigger soundstage, but didn't like what it did to timbre. Now that I have Oor, i'll probably go back to solo Dave.


I myself rate Rob Watts's efforts at upscaling way above anyone else's lol . So Dave would indeed seem the logical choice .

Re 'bigger soundstage', I've come to the conclusion that this can in fact be a bit of a minefield, especially after realising that what I used to think of as being a star quality of many tubes - viz a 'cavernous'/wider stage can too often be an 'artifice', with detrimental effects on overall cohesion/tonal balance/precise placement.

I personally feel that a 'clean' PS, top class cables (preferably using mono crystal OCC silver wire) and even a different source (as I have found with my Denon DCD 1600NE player) can help bring all the width, height and depth one would want, and without the downsides mentioned. But it sure can take a long while before getting the combination right alas!


----------



## adrianm

hypnos1 said:


> I myself rate Rob Watts's efforts at upscaling way above anyone else's lol . So Dave would indeed seem the logical choice .
> 
> Re 'bigger soundstage', I've come to the conclusion that this can in fact be a bit of a minefield, especially after realising that what I used to think of as being a star quality of many tubes - viz a 'cavernous'/wider stage can too often be an 'artifice', with detrimental effects on overall cohesion/tonal balance/precise placement.
> 
> I personally feel that a 'clean' PS, top class cables (preferably using mono crystal OCC silver wire) and even a different source (as I have found with my Denon DCD 1600NE player) can help bring all the width, height and depth one would want, and without the downsides mentioned. But it sure can take a long while before getting the combination right alas!


Well there's now an easy solution, buy a Lina dac+ clock  Sounds pretty cavernous compared to Dave. Absolutely loved it.


----------



## hypnos1

adrianm said:


> Well there's now an easy solution, buy a Lina dac+ clock  Sounds pretty cavernous compared to Dave. Absolutely loved it.



Hmmm adrian...at skywards of £18000 I fear not mon ami!!  Am happy enough (thankfully) with the results of years of toil, anguish, disappointment, surprise...but eventually _elation_ lol  ...CHEERS!


----------



## adrianm

hypnos1 said:


> Hmmm adrian...at skywards of £18000 I fear not mon ami!!  Am happy enough (thankfully) with the results of years of toil, anguish, disappointment, surprise...but eventually _elation_ lol  ...CHEERS!


Yeah, the pricing is ridiculous. Every time I assume a higher price point is just snake oil, I'm surprised it can get better.


----------



## Somatic

Crazy how the Lina amp did not sound as good as the Ferrum stack. Thats great info to know.

*Anyone looking for Ferrum stack? Selling mine now. Only 1 month old. FYI.


----------



## hypnos1 (Aug 24, 2022)

adrianm said:


> Yeah, the pricing is ridiculous. Every time I assume a higher price point is just snake oil, I'm surprised it can get better.



Indeed...there's _always_ 'better' lol! But sometimes that ol' Law of Diminishing Returns just kicks in way too hard and a tough stance is needed IMHO . While in this vein, perhaps you might need to resist auditioning the Zahl HM1?!! .

For me at least, the Ferrum combo now shines so brightly in my own system that I no longer even have any desire to taste another amp (nor headphones)...and _this_ time, I'm sure that will be the case for a very long time indeed! Especially given the paranoid state of my wallet .

ps. That Lina gear (apart from the amp?!) sure does look good though...


----------



## Somatic

Anyone using the power amp mode with the Dave and Susvara or is everyone using high gain? Might give the Oor one more try ... it is nice to have an option for a warmer sound .... hmmmm


----------



## jonathan c

hypnos1 said:


> Indeed...there's _always_ 'better' lol! But sometimes that ol' Law of Diminishing Returns just kicks in way too hard and a tough stance is needed IMHO . While in this vein, perhaps you might need to resist auditioning the Zahl HM1?!! .
> 
> For me at least, the Ferrum combo now shines so brightly in my own system that I no longer even have any desire to taste another amp (nor headphones)...and _this_ time, I'm sure that will be the case for a very long time indeed! Especially given the paranoid state of my wallet .
> 
> ps. That Lina gear (apart from the amp?!) sure does look good though...


…your wallet is not comatose?…😳


----------



## Somatic

How long does the Ferrum stack take to warm up? Thanks.


----------



## Melting735

Somatic said:


> How long does the Ferrum stack take to warm up? Thanks.


It takes 10secs for hypsos to launch oor. Oor will work immediately after power up. I didn't notice any significant difference over time though.


----------



## Delta9K (Aug 25, 2022)

Somatic said:


> How long does the Ferrum stack take to warm up? Thanks.


I don't turn the Hypsos off or use stand-by, just turn the input switch to the off position on the Ferrum;  @10-15 minutes.
If powering up from Stand-by or been away for the weekend and all was off, warmup them may be as long as 30-40 minutes.   This is my take, YMMV.


----------



## Somatic

Ok I’m a psycho. Was going to sell but unpacked everything and will give it another go. Gives a much needed warmth to my digital chain. 

I can go off Dave headphone amp if looking for more neutral cool signature and Ferrum stack for a warmer representation. 

What if someone had the settings for the wrong device? Instead of OOR it was set to match with another device.


----------



## Andrewteee

Somatic said:


> Ok I’m a psycho. Was going to sell but unpacked everything and will give it another go. Gives a much needed warmth to my digital chain.
> 
> I can go off Dave headphone amp if looking for more neutral cool signature and Ferrum stack for a warmer representation.
> 
> What if someone had the settings for the wrong device? Instead of OOR it was set to match with another device.


Some time ago I learned not to rush to sell things. Keep them around for a while as I might and often do revisit them. In time, you'll know if it's worth selling. 

Looking at buying an Oor + Hypsos myself but haven't yet.


----------



## 801evan

Somatic said:


> Ok I’m a psycho. Was going to sell but unpacked everything and will give it another go. Gives a much needed warmth to my digital chain.
> 
> I can go off Dave headphone amp if looking for more neutral cool signature and Ferrum stack for a warmer representation.
> 
> What if someone had the settings for the wrong device? Instead of OOR it was set to match with another device.


What brand and purity is the interconnects?and what's the plugs material and plating?


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

adrianm said:


> I agree 100% here. Case in point : i've had the Lina stack for 4 days. Was initially unimpressed. 2-3 days in impressions changed to 180 degrees. Spoiler Alert : the Oor is MUCH better than the Lina amp. So much so that it makes or breaks the stack.


I agree. I heard the Lina stack at CanJam Chicago.  It sounded great with the 1266TC they were demoing with it. But, I had my Susvara with me and it was not good at all.


----------



## Somatic

801evan said:


> What brand and purity is the interconnects?and what's the plugs material and plating?


1 Foot – Audiophile... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01M5F80WN?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

I need to get the longer size. 

Currently using some Mogami XLR cables.


----------



## 801evan (Aug 25, 2022)

Somatic said:


> 1 Foot – Audiophile... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01M5F80WN?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
> 
> I need to get the longer size.
> 
> Currently using some Mogami XLR cables.


Dang silver harmony at those prices. But yea, it's the interconnects giving the warmth then. I've used the silver harmony on my builds for over 2 years and they are 'slow' compared to higher quality silver plugs. Mogami and is also on the warm slow side so that combo may lend to the sq you are hearing.

Edit: oh wait, I've been using absolute harmony actually. And the silver harmony prices on AliExpress is still more expensive that these cables itself. Lol.


----------



## Somatic (Aug 25, 2022)

801evan said:


> Dang silver harmony at those prices. But yea, it's the interconnects giving the warmth then. I've used the silver harmony on my builds for over 2 years and they are 'slow' compared to higher quality silver plugs. Mogami and is also on the warm slow side so that combo may lend to the sq you are hearing.
> 
> Edit: oh wait, I've been using absolute harmony actually. And the silver harmony prices on AliExpress is still more expensive that these cables itself. Lol.


Can you send me links to cables you recommend? Preferably RCAs. Thanks.

Edit: Something like this?

https://www.lavricables.com/cables/grand-20-core-full-silver-rca-interconnects/


----------



## Somatic

Ok I was wrong. Ferrum stack sounds amazing. I'm surprised, but noticing more micro detail. Man vocals sound so seductive.


----------



## adrianm

Somatic said:


> Can you send me links to cables you recommend? Preferably RCAs. Thanks.
> 
> Edit: Something like this?
> 
> https://www.lavricables.com/cables/grand-20-core-full-silver-rca-interconnects/


FWIW, I've settled on the Crystal Cable Piccolo diamond RCA's. I find them to preserve Dave's tonal balance. I've also had the Micro diamond ones here last week, but I was too busy with Lina to bother A/B'ing.


----------



## krude (Aug 25, 2022)

Somatic said:


> Ok I was wrong. Ferrum stack sounds amazing. I'm surprised, but noticing more micro detail. Man vocals sound so seductive.


I had the same situation with Utopia a few times. Last time I had a buyer willing to pay good money and I pulled out last second 😮🤫 just unpacked it to listen to it one last time and it was so good and so unique ... I couldn't sell it.

With Ferrum, set it to 22.1v with Susvara and give your system 30 min to warm up. Use full 6v from Dave and use high gain on the Oor for max dynamics and bass and medium gain (or power amp mode with daves preamp) for max details. You should not be disappointed.

Also it burns in for about 100h from what I've experienced with the bottom, top and dynamics opening up.


----------



## adrianm (Aug 25, 2022)

hypnos1 said:


> Indeed...there's _always_ 'better' lol! But sometimes that ol' Law of Diminishing Returns just kicks in way too hard and a tough stance is needed IMHO . While in this vein, perhaps you might need to resist auditioning the Zahl HM1?!! .
> 
> For me at least, the Ferrum combo now shines so brightly in my own system that I no longer even have any desire to taste another amp (nor headphones)...and _this_ time, I'm sure that will be the case for a very long time indeed! Especially given the paranoid state of my wallet .
> 
> ps. That Lina gear (apart from the amp?!) sure does look good though...


If only I had somewhere to audition the Zahl, i'd really consider it. Paying 8.5k and waiting for a year and a half to hear it...pass. I'm still considering Lina though. It sounds great with the Oor, has the same kind of "soul" (I wouldn't even call it warmth) + the best technicalities I've heard.
   Plus, the best trick the Zahl does, stereo image widening, Lina also does via Expanse. So i wouldn't think  about replacing the Oor with the Hm1.


----------



## krude

adrianm said:


> If only I had somewhere to audition the Zahl, i'd really consider it. Paying 8.5k and waiting for a year and a half to hear it...pass. I'm still considering Lina though. It sounds great with the Oor, has the same kind of "soul" (I wouldn't even call it warmth) + the best technicalities I've heard.
> Plus, the best trick the Zahl does, stereo image widening, Lina also does via Expanse. So i wouldn't think  about replacing the Oor with the Hm1.


How much is the Lina dac (do you need the clock? You probably do right?)? For the set you might be in the price bracket of MSB, higher end 2nd hand dCS etc.


----------



## adrianm

krude said:


> How much is the Lina dac (do you need the clock? You probably do right?)? For the set you might be in the price bracket of MSB, higher end 2nd hand dCS etc.


22k, you do really need the clock. You could probably get a higher end dac, be it dCS or otherwise, but none of them have Expanse, which is one of the key selling points for me, since I don't use speakers.


----------



## krude

adrianm said:


> 22k, you do really need the clock. You could probably get a higher end dac, be it dCS or otherwise, but none of them have Expanse, which is one of the key selling points for me, since I don't use speakers.


Interesting. That kinda DSP was always very hit and miss for me. Their starting point is not correct as well. Since walkman became popular a lot of music is actually optimised for headphones with prime examples like Billie Eilish Bad Guy, which actually require good headphones for full effect. 

Will be interesting to check it out, but it probably needs a very long time to propely put it through it's paces.


----------



## adrianm

krude said:


> Interesting. That kinda DSP was always very hit and miss for me. Their starting point is not correct as well. Since walkman became popular a lot of music is actually optimised for headphones with prime examples like Billie Eilish Bad Guy, which actually require good headphones for full effect.
> 
> Will be interesting to check it out, but it probably needs a very long time to propely put it through it's paces.


I've always hated crossfeed done in amps. I do like Dave's CF (Digital domain), but it does degrade clarity slightly. Expanse Is radically different from crossfeed, seems weird at first, but I did enjoy it after a day or so. Here's a whitepaper they have on it :
https://dcsaudio.com/expanse


----------



## krude

adrianm said:


> I've always hated crossfeed done in amps. I do like Dave's CF (Digital domain), but it does degrade clarity slightly. Expanse Is radically different from crossfeed, seems weird at first, but I did enjoy it after a day or so. Here's a whitepaper they have on it :
> https://dcsaudio.com/expanse


Yeah I've seen it. This kind of stereo processing is a thing for the last 30 odd years as well. Used in mixing but mostly in mastering in this form. There is a whole host of issues when trying to process mastered music, not to mention the processing algorithms themselves. I've got a very simple one in LG v50 mobile, it's a nice gimmick for electronic music. 

Now I'm intrigued to see how a company like dCS would make such a system when money and RND is no object. The question for me is not what you gain from the processing, but what you loose. Hope I'll have a chance to audition it soon


----------



## krude

adrianm said:


> I've always hated crossfeed done in amps. I do like Dave's CF (Digital domain), but it does degrade clarity slightly. Expanse Is radically different from crossfeed, seems weird at first, but I did enjoy it after a day or so. Here's a whitepaper they have on it :
> https://dcsaudio.com/expanse


Also did you try 1266 TC on a good pairing? This is the most speaker like headphone out there imo (not including ear speakers ofc).


----------



## adrianm

krude said:


> Also did you try 1266 TC on a good pairing? This is the most speaker like headphone out there imo (not including ear speakers ofc).


No, unfortunately. It's still on my radar, but i've heard multiple complaints about the midrange and voicing, which would be a deal breaker for me. It also seems uncomfortable to wear.  The Abyss guys don't really inspire much confidence either. I'll reserve judgment until I get a chance to hear it. I'm more interested in the Diana Tc closed back though.


----------



## hypnos1

jonathan c said:


> …your wallet is not comatose?…😳


Sad story...the poor thing's been resuscitated so many times (hence the paranoia) that it's begging me to issue a 'DNR' instruction lol!! 

ps  But can't pluck up the courage to do the decent thing alas


----------



## krude

adrianm said:


> No, unfortunately. It's still on my radar, but i've heard multiple complaints about the midrange and voicing, which would be a deal breaker for me. It also seems uncomfortable to wear.  The Abyss guys don't really inspire much confidence either. I'll reserve judgment until I get a chance to hear it. I'm more interested in the Diana Tc closed back though.


1266 TC is very comfortable for me, you need to get one for testing in your own system and spend a good few weeks with it to dial it in. Pairs great with Oor on 22v but it also pairs great with inoffensive / sweeter tube amps. It sounds very different to Susvara for example, but it's world class in pretty much everything for me.


----------



## hypnos1

Somatic said:


> How long does the Ferrum stack take to warm up? Thanks.


Once fully burned in - (I myself also noticed improvement after a good few days, even though second hand), I now find mine performing at max to all intents and purposes pretty well from the off. I've always wondered why this seems to differ quite often between folks, and suspect it may be somewhere else in the chain taking its time or, perhaps more likely(?), the quality of one's mains and DC power supplies...especially any conditioning/filtering or lack thereof. Our ears also have a part to play here methinks!


Somatic said:


> Ok I’m a psycho. Was going to sell but unpacked everything and will give it another go. Gives a much needed warmth to my digital chain.
> 
> I can go off Dave headphone amp if looking for more neutral cool signature and Ferrum stack for a warmer representation.
> 
> What if someone had the settings for the wrong device? Instead of OOR it was set to match with another device.


Yes S, it does indeed pay to give extended and repeated trials over a fairly long period of time before making final judgment lol 

Plus, as I myself found quite often when revisiting different tubes' qualities after a long break between, such a return can bring surprising and unexpected revelations...and be a double-edged sword of course! Ah, the tos and fros of this wonderful (and often frustrating) hobby 

Re different Hypsos settings, although different gear will often require different V out of course, fortunately OOR can handle its max of 30V so there's no danger at least from incorrect setting.  The same can't be said for those using Hypsos for anything that can't however!!  And OOR simply won't function if below 22V methinks.

Hope you continue to enjoy the Ferrums' great sound...


----------



## hypnos1 (Aug 25, 2022)

801evan said:


> Dang silver harmony at those prices. But yea, it's the interconnects giving the warmth then. I've used the silver harmony on my builds for over 2 years and they are 'slow' compared to higher quality silver plugs. Mogami and is also on the warm slow side so that combo may lend to the sq you are hearing.
> 
> Edit: oh wait, I've been using absolute harmony actually. And the silver harmony prices on AliExpress is still more expensive that these cables itself. Lol.


Yo evan...as we've both covered in the past, the quality of the wire(s) used and even the connectors can make a radical difference in a good quality system (and which is why I cannibalise any connectors I can so as to have the actual cables' wire function as the pins...my adopted mantra being the best connector is _*no*_ connector lol ). Going direct into the equipment is not feasible most times unfortunately, but at least this method is second best...and cheaper/better than the very best connectors!!...(although can be rather tricky...).

Also, (as I think you know), I'm now a big fan of dualing _all_ cables - ie separate ones for signal and return/pos and neg. Makes for more bulk of course, but for me, end performance is more important!


----------



## Somatic

Couple of questions for everyone. Appreciate the help.

*Anyone replaced the fuse for better sound performance? https://www.synergisticresearch.com/fuses/purple-fuse/

*Replaced the DC cable for silver? If so, what kind of connector should I be looking for?

*Are the OOR's RCA or XLR inputs the same for transparency?

*Spread Spectrum Mode - OFF/ON?

*4 Terminal Sensing - OFF/ON?


----------



## Somatic

Roasty said:


> reading the past few pages, I'm also in the camp that changing the voltage on the Hypsos doesn't change the sound I'm hearing on the Oor. are we in the minority here? have tried small increments, then big increments in voltage, but can't seem to hear any change.


Yesterday i was messing with voltages. In the beginning I didn't hear a difference. Using the Susvara i started to hear a trend. At 24v it sounded a little slower and more sultry. Its easier to hear in the vocals. Once I raise up the voltage to 28v for example, things speed up. A bit less emphasis on midrange and slight increase in treble sharpness. Speeds up. But I found this a little fatiguing and lost that seductive quality in the vocals. I think I am sticking to the nominal 24v for the Oor.


----------



## Somatic

IanB52 said:


> I just put one of the SR Purple fuses in my Hypsos and it sounds great, though usually takes many hours to settle.
> 
> When I got the Oor+Hypsos I felt that it was already so transparent that my usual SR fuses might not accomplish much. Over the weekend a found a used 2 amp orange fuse I had laying around, and it was actually a nice improvement in depth and clarity.
> 
> Then the purple came today and really surprised by how different it sounds compared to the orange. In many ways it is better than orange, more spacious, and stronger bass, but also seems quite colorful. *Almost* like adding a tube input stage. There seems to be a "glow" to the sound now. Very interesting, esp on such a ridiculously transparent amp.


Are you still running it off the SR Purple? Did you lose anything from stock fuse?


----------



## Somatic

IanB52 said:


> I just put one of the SR Purple fuses in my Hypsos and it sounds great, though usually takes many hours to settle.
> 
> When I got the Oor+Hypsos I felt that it was already so transparent that my usual SR fuses might not accomplish much. Over the weekend a found a used 2 amp orange fuse I had laying around, and it was actually a nice improvement in depth and clarity.
> 
> Then the purple came today and really surprised by how different it sounds compared to the orange. In many ways it is better than orange, more spacious, and stronger bass, but also seems quite colorful. *Almost* like adding a tube input stage. There seems to be a "glow" to the sound now. Very interesting, esp on such a ridiculously transparent amp.


Which fuse did you end up going with? So Purple makes it sound even warmer but more spacious and added bass?


----------



## Somatic

IanB52 said:


> It's fairly easy to change the fuse on the Hypsos as the compartment is on the outside, next to the AC input. It is a 2 Amp 5x20mm 250v. It does help to have a tiny flathead screwdriver to pop the fuse case out, and FYI the case is pretty snug so it usually chews up the label of aftermarket fuses, but it doesn't cause any operational or SQ problems.
> 
> I haven't used HiFi Tuning. I did try a more expensive QSA fuse, as well as SR Orange and Purple. I like Purple the best, but it is very colored, bass and midrange heavy, with dense and colorful tonality. The Orange is more scooped and fast, but not as good overall. QSA fuses can be more resolving, but bright, less textured, and less full bodied. I wish there was a fuse that had the tonal balance of the Orange, resolution of the QSA Red, but vibrancy and musicality of the Purple. Maybe they exist, but I haven't tried everything.


Hmmm, did you end up sticking to the SR Purple. So seems like it will make it even warmer. Does soundstage change at all? Instrument separation stays the same?

Regarding the SR Orange, what so you mean by scooped? Decreased mid range? Appreciate the help. I have SR Purple on all my Farad3s. Thought worth perusing.


----------



## Somatic

Would this work with the Ferrum stack?

https://www.faradpowersupplies.com/...silver-cable-50cm-gx16-4-to-gx16-4-connector/


----------



## hypnos1 (Aug 25, 2022)

Somatic said:


> Couple of questions for everyone. Appreciate the help.
> 
> *Anyone replaced the fuse for better sound performance? https://www.synergisticresearch.com/fuses/purple-fuse/
> 
> ...


Ah, S...fuses. Not an easy, and somewhat controversial topic!

Firstly, I personally suspect results can vary considerably according, as usual, to the rest of the system...particularly the quality of one's mains supply. A good fuse won't help a garbage-laden power supply lol!

Secondly, my feelings are that if care has been taken with the PS, cables etc, then the standard - usually dirt cheap equipment fuses are certainly a 'weak link' and therefore surely worth upgrading. Over the years I've found mixed results from (relative) cheapies like the AMRs (which I don't recommend), with better from some Aucharm single crystal silver ones from China, at a good price of about $24 incl shipping. But I found more reliable results from *HiFi Tuning's *offerings...basically giving a 'cleaner', clearer sound overall (especially helping bass and treble, and therefore soundstage), and improved dynamics.
Many preferred the obsolete 'Silver Star' over the later 'improved' Supreme 3, and which I too like (but now unobtainable in the popular ratings alas). But I'm still very happy with the S 3's, especially the silver/gold version...at about $50 from partsconnexion, or £42 from the likes of audiosanctuary in the UK. I'm convinced this is what also helped My Denon DCD 1600 NE player, along with the Dynamat sound deadening treatment easily match the £1000 more 2500 NE, with its kgs of copper way of dealing with vibration gremlins.

Re. the DC cable, I myself have always found improvements from upgrading any in the system with OCC silver (or even copper, if silver too expensive), along with mains cables. Trouble with the Ferrums is that Hypsos's out uses that 4 pin plug, and I'm not sure if it is in fact a standard spec...this looks to me very similar, but can't guarantee : https://www.canford.co.uk/Products/...for-DC-power-input-of-442-302-MixPre-7-Series And, of course, great care needs to be taken with the correct pin connection sequence when going DIY! I myself made my own to fit (not easy!).


----------



## ozziegurkan

Somatic said:


> Ok I was wrong. Ferrum stack sounds amazing. I'm surprised, but noticing more micro detail. Man vocals sound so seductive.


Sometimes you just have to go away to miss your partner...I mean amp!


----------



## hypnos1

Somatic said:


> Would this work with the Ferrum stack?
> 
> https://www.faradpowersupplies.com/...silver-cable-50cm-gx16-4-to-gx16-4-connector/


Not at all sure myself. And if, as appears, not actually *mono crystal OCC *silver(?), then overpriced IMHO. 'Ordinary' silver can so often be a tad too bright for some systems...


----------



## Somatic

Anyone know how to get the Ferrum stack to go into standby? I didn't see an option in the menu or anything in the manual. Thanks.


----------



## ozziegurkan

Somatic said:


> Hmmm, did you end up sticking to the SR Purple. So seems like it will make it even warmer. Does soundstage change at all? Instrument separation stays the same?
> 
> Regarding the SR Orange, what so you mean by scooped? Decreased mid range? Appreciate the help. I have SR Purple on all my Farad3s. Thought worth perusing.


Did you get the Fast blow type?


----------



## Somatic

ozziegurkan said:


> Did you get the Fast blow type?


Specs from manual:
Primary winding fuse (external): 5x20mm - 250V 3.15A, slown-blown for Japan version / 250V 2A, slown-blown for Europe, US version 

I was just going to stick with 5x20mm 250V 2A, slow-blow. Haven't bought it yet. Thinking SR Purple to match the fuses on the Farad3s.


----------



## Delta9K (Aug 25, 2022)

Somatic said:


> I think I am sticking to the nominal 24v for the Oor.


For the Susvara, I prefer the default nominal 24v setting for the Oor too, and pretty much to a T with the same reasoning as you behind it.


----------



## Somatic

krude said:


> I had the same situation with Utopia a few times. Last time I had a buyer willing to pay good money and I pulled out last second 😮🤫 just unpacked it to listen to it one last time and it was so good and so unique ... I couldn't sell it.
> 
> With Ferrum, set it to 22.1v with Susvara and give your system 30 min to warm up. Use full 6v from Dave and use high gain on the Oor for max dynamics and bass and medium gain (or power amp mode with daves preamp) for max details. You should not be disappointed.
> 
> Also it burns in for about 100h from what I've experienced with the bottom, top and dynamics opening up.


Cool thanks @krude ... why did you go to 22V with Susvara. Rounded it out slightly? What do you perceive when you go down in voltage? Also regarding the 6V out of the Dave. I have it on DAC mode using the XLRs for now, trying to get some good RCAs to switch them out but am I feeing the 6V in this scenario? Thanks.


----------



## krude

Somatic said:


> Cool thanks @krude ... why did you go to 22V with Susvara. Rounded it out slightly? What do you perceive when you go down in voltage? Also regarding the 6V out of the Dave. I have it on DAC mode using the XLRs for now, trying to get some good RCAs to switch them out but am I feeing the 6V in this scenario? Thanks.


Indeed, Dave putts out 6v in DAC mode over XLR and that's how I would keep it for maximum dynamics. If you want softer sound with limited dynamics use RCA, but for Susvara you want as much oomph through the chain as possible.

If you want to feel the power and dynamics keep Oor in high gain with Susvara, it has a tad more distortion than 0 gain but paired with 6v from your DAC it will keep Susvara in maximum attack mode.

For this to work make sure you're around 0dbFS on the digital side of things, so as loud as you can without distorting the DAC.

22v (I use 22.1v because Oor sometimes has issues powering up with 22v in my system) to round the sound off a bit, lower voltage forces higher current and a bit more power. To my ears it makes the sound a bit softer (but we just made it hard with 6v high gain and max vol in digital anyway, so it just rounds it off a bit), but also maximises the stage, bass and dynamics especially down low.

So that's my recipe for getting the Susvara kicking and sounding the best in my system. YMMV.


----------



## Somatic

Man this Ferrum stack is impressive. I have these IEMs, Final A8000 and they took them to new heights. The transparency and bass authority is amazing. I think I prefer these than the LCD5. That good.


----------



## adrianm

Somatic said:


> Man this Ferrum stack is impressive. I have these IEMs, Final A8000 and they took them to new heights. The transparency and bass authority is amazing. I think I prefer these than the LCD5. That good.


I'm really happy you like it, I felt partly responsible lol. I was also a bit perplexed you didn't initially, but I wouldn't have expected Hypsos to have been set for another device. It auto-detected it for me. You can try both RCA and XLR, but the added warmth is coming from the added opamp distortion from what i've noticed. RCA has the same tonality as Dave. As for Susvara, while I had it here, I preferred it with RCA out at 28v. It really felt like it came alive. Not a Susvara expert though.


----------



## krude

adrianm said:


> I'm really happy you like it, I felt partly responsible lol. I was also a bit perplexed you didn't initially, but I wouldn't have expected Hypsos to have been set for another device. It auto-detected it for me. You can try both RCA and XLR, but the added warmth is coming from the added opamp distortion from what i've noticed. RCA has the same tonality as Dave. As for Susvara, while I had it here, I preferred it with RCA out at 28v. It really felt like it came alive. Not a Susvara expert though.


That's another great thing about the Oor stack, you can really change the detail of the presentation using low V input (RCA), high V (XLR), against different gain and voltage settings or using a pre amp with Oor in power amp mode. Changes are subtle, but meaningful, like rolling tubes or cables ... 

Then there's the versitality with high performance and pitch black background for pretty much all sets from IEMs, through sensitive over ears to likes of Susvara.

For me the master stroke and the reason to own it is the expertly tweaked voicing, from smooth but detailed treble, ultra clean and detailed mids with a hint of warmth to strong full bodied bass that never bleeds into the mids.


----------



## hypnos1 (Aug 26, 2022)

krude said:


> That's another great thing about the Oor stack, you can really change the detail of the presentation using low V input (RCA), high V (XLR), against different gain and voltage settings or using a pre amp with Oor in power amp mode. Changes are subtle, but meaningful, like rolling tubes or cables ...
> 
> Then there's the versitality with high performance and pitch black background for pretty much all sets from IEMs, through sensitive over ears to likes of Susvara.
> 
> For me the master stroke and the reason to own it is the expertly tweaked voicing, from smooth but detailed treble, ultra clean and detailed mids with a hint of warmth to strong full bodied bass that never bleeds into the mids.


krude...I'm quoting your whole post because I believe you've basically described here all that really encapsulates this Ferrum combo's qualities and capabilities and, in fact, all that really _needs_ to be said lol . But who am I to deny other folks' input of experience/impressions?! Always nice to have further confirmation of course 

And it's no good...I had hoped to just sit back and enjoy my music now without constant analysing, but each past test track revisited shakes me out of peaceful complacency and it's "What on Earth is going on here?" once again. This time it's Verdi's Requiem (Solti/VPO & Chorus/Sutherland/Horne/Pavarotti/Talvela).

Aided by wonderful recording quality, that 'voicing' you described is very apt re both orchestra and vocals (individual and ensemble). The clarity, separation and placement of all the myriad different elements in such a work is a true test of any gear, and in this - as in all other areas, the Ferrums shine supremely. And the way instruments and voices swell from out of the blackest background has never been so awe-inspiring...truly wonderful.

And sorry for repeating, but this latest revelation is in no small measure aided by the Denon CD player as source, and still has me scratching my head in disbelief. I can only entreat folks to beg/steal/borrow/demo one, using (a good-cabled!) coax out to your top notch (of course ) DAC and hopefully see what I mean. I'm not the only one these days to have rediscovered the superiority of straight disc playback lol . All I know is that my own Ferrum-based system has taken a very significant leap, and I no longer miss all the fancy functionality of current computer-based, streaming, wireless app controlled systems, and to which I cannot now return given said leap in sound delivery. My Antipodes DX now also sits pining in the attic, alongside the Naim UnitiCore and Hugo2 . But as always, it's "horses for courses" of course...CHEERS...and ENJOY!!...CJ

ps. Once again, the Denon CD player in question is the (SACD) DCD 1600 NE...or the (heavyweight!) 2500 NE if you want to really push the boat out...but NB - they are BIG!

pps. For one's hires material they also handle DVD data discs, so can be written to same for tremendous playback. Although for those with mscaler (or Dave of course), their upscaling of plain ol' RedBook CD quality is quite miraculous, and surpassed (via disc even) only by the best mastered offerings at 24bit/176kHz and above IMHO...


----------



## Somatic

krude said:


> That's another great thing about the Oor stack, you can really change the detail of the presentation using low V input (RCA), high V (XLR), against different gain and voltage settings or using a pre amp with Oor in power amp mode. Changes are subtle, but meaningful, like rolling tubes or cables ...
> 
> Then there's the versitality with high performance and pitch black background for pretty much all sets from IEMs, through sensitive over ears to likes of Susvara.
> 
> For me the master stroke and the reason to own it is the expertly tweaked voicing, from smooth but detailed treble, ultra clean and detailed mids with a hint of warmth to strong full bodied bass that never bleeds into the mids.


Total agreement. I actually prefer the added voltage/distortion of the XLR. Now I can mess around with cables for XLR and RCA and switch depending if I want more transparency or better macro dynamics. Might go silver RCAs and Copper XLRs ... best of both worlds.  ... Plus I can mess with HYPSOS voltage and crossfeed on the Dave. Nice to have options. 

I am going to mess with the SR Purple fuses soon.


----------



## Somatic

@adrianm @krude 

Very cool. So many options with Dave and Ferrum stack.

With Susvara you can go RCA at 26v or XLR at 22v. Get something different out of your chain. Very versatile. This is not even putting cables into the equation. Geez.


----------



## adrianm

Somatic said:


> @adrianm @krude
> 
> Very cool. So many options with Dave and Ferrum stack.
> 
> With Susvara you can go RCA at 26v or XLR at 22v. Get something different out of your chain. Very versatile. This is not even putting cables into the equation. Geez.


And with the Lina dac you can actively switch between 6v and 2v. Initially 6v via XLR resulted in static, but i think this was due to me connecting the cables with the systems on. After an hour or so i turned everything off and on again and no issues. 6v sounded considerably more punchy. I'm also using the Hypsos straight out of the wall now, even more dynamics compared to my filter's high voltage socket.


----------



## hypnos1

adrianm said:


> If only I had somewhere to audition the Zahl, i'd really consider it. Paying 8.5k and waiting for a year and a half to hear it...pass. I'm still considering Lina though. It sounds great with the Oor, has the same kind of "soul" (I wouldn't even call it warmth) + the best technicalities I've heard.
> Plus, the best trick the Zahl does, stereo image widening, Lina also does via Expanse. So i wouldn't think  about replacing the Oor with the Hm1.


Given @krude 's convincing (and correct!) recent summation of the Ferrums' qualities, and my latest Verdi revelation, I retract any mention whatsoever of the Zahl HM1 et al! - no need to splash our hard-earned notes on anything else IMHO... there must surely  be very few systems where this combo can't punch _way_ beyond its weight lol.


----------



## Somatic

How do you unplug the FPL cable?


----------



## adrianm

hypnos1 said:


> Given @krude 's convincing (and correct!) recent summation of the Ferrums' qualities, and my latest Verdi revelation, I retract any mention whatsoever of the Zahl HM1 et al! - no need to splash our hard-earned notes on anything else IMHO... there must surely  be very few systems where this combo can't punch _way_ beyond its weight lol.


I can't say i'm not still tempted, however the Oor is so good, i might just prioritize Lina  It's hard to unhear it.


----------



## Delta9K (Aug 26, 2022)

Somatic said:


> How do you unplug the FPL cable?


Pull the outer collar backwards away from the device, then pull the plug out of the socket while holding the collar back. The collar is under spring tension and will want to go back to the lock position.


----------



## Somatic

Delta9K said:


> Pull the outer collar backwards away from the device, then pull the plug out of the socket while holding the collar back. The collar is under spring tension and will want to go back to the lock position.


Thanks I did it last week and today couldn't figure it out LOL


----------



## Somatic

Ok ordered the SR Purple fuse. Will let everyone know my thoughts. Only read 1-2 folks on this thread that tried it out. Sounds like it adds to bass and makes things warmer without losing clarity.


----------



## Somatic

IanB52 said:


> It's fairly easy to change the fuse on the Hypsos as the compartment is on the outside, next to the AC input. It is a 2 Amp 5x20mm 250v. It does help to have a tiny flathead screwdriver to pop the fuse case out, and FYI the case is pretty snug so it usually chews up the label of aftermarket fuses, but it doesn't cause any operational or SQ problems.
> 
> I haven't used HiFi Tuning. I did try a more expensive QSA fuse, as well as SR Orange and Purple. I like Purple the best, but it is very colored, bass and midrange heavy, with dense and colorful tonality. The Orange is more scooped and fast, but not as good overall. QSA fuses can be more resolving, but bright, less textured, and less full bodied. I wish there was a fuse that had the tonal balance of the Orange, resolution of the QSA Red, but vibrancy and musicality of the Purple. Maybe they exist, but I haven't tried everything.


Let us know if you find the perfect balance. Interested as well. For now I will go for a more tubey sound.


----------



## ozziegurkan

Somatic said:


> Let us know if you find the perfect balance. Interested as well. For now I will go for a more tubey sound.


Ok, I ordered too. I have a Yggy as a DAC in the chain so let’s see if I can hear the difference.


----------



## Somatic

I never changed a fuse on the HYPSOS. Is the fuse directional? Anyway knowing which way to install correctly without depending on your ears?


----------



## EMINENT

Somatic said:


> I never changed a fuse on the HYPSOS. Is the fuse directional? Anyway knowing which way to install correctly without depending on your ears?


----------



## Somatic

EMINENT said:


>


Thanks. How do you like the SR Purple fuses with the Ferrum stack? Never read your thoughts on the thread.


----------



## EMINENT

Here's the response I gave to another member. I got in on the buy 2/get 1 deal so it was easier to swallow.



> The fuses surprised me by giving some air and initially a sense of lighter bass but after many hours as suggested the bass is back or as full and deep as it ever was with the air qualities remaining. However, I must add I changed all 3, x18, x26 and Hypsos at the same time as I was too lasy to wait. I would say it was a more noticeable difference than going from gsx mini to ican and from ican to oor/hypsos.
> 
> It is super easy. It is as easy as changing battery on a remote. You remove the fuse holder, pull the fuse and swap with the new one. As long as the fuse holder is in the position where you can press the fuse into the fuse resting slot from the top, and the direction of the label reading "SR" is going from left to right, you are good.


----------



## Somatic

EMINENT said:


> Here's the response I gave to another member. I got in on the buy 2/get 1 deal so it was easier to swallow.


So you felt it added more air. Did sound get warmer or all the same? Where did you get this 2 for 1 deal? I just bought full price haha


----------



## EMINENT

Somatic said:


> So you felt it added more air. Did sound get warmer or all the same? Where did you get this 2 for 1 deal? I just bought full price haha


Yeah, at least my initial impressions. I don't think I would describe it as warm or bassier and as stated, felt it may have added to a softer/lighter bass presentation but after burn in time, these differences faded away or weren't as discernable any more.


The deal was offered at this place around April. https://highend-electronics.com/products/synergistic-research-purple-quantum-fuses?keyword_session_id=vt~adwords|kt~synergistic research purple|mt~p|ta~563369734017&_vsrefdom=wordstream&gclid=CjwKCAjw3qGYBhBSEiwAcnTRLn2zLF1T_PIJoiXHPexm809MXZchKGDVNAHJ_YtBScgCU0oBax9aNRoCujcQAvD_BwE


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Okay, so after a long head to head audition, I decided to pick up the Oor/Hypsos over the GS-Xmini in order to have a second setup to power my DCA Stealths aside from my Burson. Now I need to choose a dedicated DAC to go with the Oor to complete the stack. Anybody have any suggestions for DACs that really go well with the Oor? TIA!


----------



## Somatic

I’m happy with the Hypsos but wondering if anyone tried using another LPS with the OOR instead such as the Farad3?


----------



## Somatic

FooFighter said:


> I can hear no statics while turning the volume wheel neither on TC, Susvara or Solitaire P


I hear it when changing the volume quickly with nothing playing. I don’t worry about it.


----------



## Somatic

So did a search on this thread. Didn’t see much mentioned about the Solitaire P and how it performs with the Ferrum stack. 

Dave + Farad3 > Ferrum Stack (XLR, Medium gain). I get more bass authority from the SolP vs headphone out of Dave. It also sweetens the sound a bit more. Less clinical.


----------



## ozziegurkan

Just ordered the Holo Spring 3 KTE. Also ordered the Singxer SU-6. Can’t wait to see how it will all gel with the OOR stack.


----------



## FooFighter

Somatic said:


> So did a search on this thread. Didn’t see much mentioned about the Solitaire P and how it performs with the Ferrum stack.
> 
> Dave + Farad3 > Ferrum Stack (XLR, Medium gain). I get more bass authority from the SolP vs headphone out of Dave. It also sweetens the sound a bit more. Less clinical.


As you know I sold the Ferrum stack in order to finance SolP and HA200 😉
From my memory I confirm what you are writing also for Ferrum stack vs HA200.
So Oor has more bass authority and is sweeter than HA200 but has less width than HA200 but maybe more depth.

I often switch on the HA200 DSP loudness function to compensate the lack of bass in stock tuning.

HA200 is made for SolP and it sounds more transparent and spatial on HA200 but also less impactful in stock tuning without DSP.

I'd say I might prefer SolP with ultra wide pads on OOR to add more air but at the expense of bass then.

Spring 3 KTE on OOR is adding spatial presence and is also more spatial than HA200 DAC when connected to HA200 XLR.

In the end I think it's a matter of taste and I might not have switched to HA200 and kept Ferrum stack after all as the stock tuning is yet very nice and pairs well with lots of other gear too such as Susvara and Elite


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## adrianm (Aug 28, 2022)

Somatic said:


> I’m happy with the Hypsos but wondering if anyone tried using another LPS with the OOR instead such as the Farad3?


I don't expect it to get better, as Oor's best trick might be Hypsos' transient correction ability. That said, with super sensitive Elites, I do find myself liking high gain impact more, but missing the quiet background of low gain. I guess that's the one area where I could see a reason to upgrade from Oor. I'm sure it's not a problem with less sensitive headphones though.
   This is most likely due to the fact that i'm skipping the mains filter, which does cut a bit of dynamics, but i think it is preferable to the higher background noise. I'm probably going back to it.


----------



## hypnos1

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Okay, so after a long head to head audition, I decided to pick up the Oor/Hypsos over the GS-Xmini in order to have a second setup to power my DCA Stealths aside from my Burson. Now I need to choose a dedicated DAC to go with the Oor to complete the stack. Anybody have any suggestions for DACs that really go well with the Oor? TIA!



$64000 question methinks! For me, TT2 is certainly _a_ winner IMHO...especially if you want to stretch to mscaler with (but does also then require very good BNC coax cables to TT2). And in 'AMP' mode its variable V out gives remote control function for OOR's volume, which I personally find invaluable .


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## hypnos1 (Aug 28, 2022)

adrianm said:


> I don't expect it to get better, as Oor's best trick might be Hypsos' transient correction ability. That said, with super sensitive Elites, I do find myself liking high gain impact more, but missing the quiet background of low gain. I guess that's the one area where I could see a reason to upgrade from Oor. I'm sure it's not a problem with less sensitive headphones though.
> This is most likely due to the fact that i'm skipping the mains filter, which does cut a bit of dynamics, but i think it is preferable to the higher background noise. I'm probably going back to it.


Hmmm a, I'm beginning to suspect actually that Elite's superiority over the Empys just _might_ not be so all-encompassing lol . And certainly depending upon the system...with my new source especially feeding the Ferrums now closing the gap considerably between my own Empys and my friend's Elites I now have no desire whatsoever to resuscitate my wallet once more!

Did you try increasing the V out to OOR to gain more impact?...(with gain at mid setting).

And although going mains direct out from the wall _sometimes _seems to give greater dynamics, I personally believe one would have to be _extremely_ lucky to have a supply that doesn't need _good_ conditioning/filtering! And I would _*never*_ feed expensive gear without at least surge/spike protection 

Hope you at least find an acceptable compromise...which is, of course, de rigeur at whatever level we play!


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## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 28, 2022)

hypnos1 said:


> $64000 question methinks! For me, TT2 is certainly _a_ winner IMHO...especially if you want to stretch to mscaler with (but does also then require very good BNC coax cables to TT2). And in 'AMP' mode its variable V out gives remote control function for OOR's volume, which I personally find invaluable .



Thanks for the suggestion! For the last few days since I got the Oor I have been using it with my Gustard X26 and liking it a lot, but have still been wondering if there are better options out there. The TT2 looks intriguing and remote volume control sounds like something that could come in handy given the way I have been considering shuffling my music/listening room layout.


----------



## adrianm

hypnos1 said:


> Hmmm a, I'm beginning to suspect actually that Elite's superiority over the Empys just _might_ not be so all-encompassing lol . And certainly depending upon the system...with my new source especially feeding the Ferrums now closing the gap considerably between my own Empys and my friend's Elites I now have no desire whatsoever to resuscitate my wallet once more!
> 
> Did you try increasing the V out to OOR to gain more impact?...(with gain at mid setting).
> 
> ...


 I can't speak to the Empyreans, as i've never heard them, but I did buy the Elites after having heard Susvara and LCD-5 multiple times.
    I'm back to using  the high current socket of the Aquarius. I much prefer it, even though it does lose some impact, background is much cleaner. Even at high gain and same V. Hell high gain with the Aquarius sounds cleaner than low gain going into the wall. I do have my pc and a bunch of other stuff in that socket though. 
    Moving to a new place in a few months and plan on installing a dedicated circuit for Hi-fi.  Hopefully that will improve things.


----------



## TheR0v3r (Aug 29, 2022)

I wrote this in the Lcd-4 thread (should have added that I’m using the Ferrum stack!):


TheR0v3r said:


> Listening to ”Automatic for the People” (25th AE) with my LCD-4’s using Audeze’s linear filter, crossfeed and Forza Audioworks Noir HPC Mk2.  What a headphone (and what an album) - it sounds truly spectacular


As I sat there listening to an album I’ve heard a ”million times” and yet I was hearing it for the first time. Reconnecting to music in this way is just such a joy.

PS. After several years of owning and trying different planars I decided on the LCD-4’s as my endgame and bought one of the last(?) pairs. In the end it stod between Susvara, LCD-4 and LCD-5.


----------



## Tchoupitoulas

TheR0v3r said:


> I wrote this in the Lcd-4 thread (should have added that I’m using the Ferrum stack!):
> 
> As I sat there listening to an album I’ve heard a ”million times” and yet I was hearing it for the first time. Reconnecting to music in this way is just such a joy.
> 
> PS. After several years of owning and trying different planars I decided on the LCD-4’s as my endgame and bought one of the last(?) pairs. In the end it stod between Susvara, LCD-4 and LCD-5.



Thanks for this, I'm glad to hear the pairing is good. 

As an LCD-4 fan who's interested in the Ferrum Oor and Hypsos, would you mind sharing some comparisons of this stack with other amps you've heard, please?


----------



## TheR0v3r

Tchoupitoulas said:


> Thanks for this, I'm glad to hear the pairing is good.
> 
> As an LCD-4 fan who's interested in the Ferrum Oor and Hypsos, would you mind sharing some comparisons of this stack with other amps you've heard, please?


I haven’t done much in the way of comparisons of this stack against other amps.

The key for me has been having a great relationship with a fantastic local shop. Together it has been alot of trial (and some errors), but because of this relationship we’ve been able to make good deals for both me and them. 

So they heard the Ferrum stack at an event (with the Susvara). They came back, told me it was fantastic and that was that! Next step was finding the ”best” headphone to pair it with. And the search has ended with the LCD-4.


----------



## Tchoupitoulas

TheR0v3r said:


> I haven’t done much in the way of comparisons of this stack against other amps.
> 
> The key for me has been having a great relationship with a fantastic local shop. Together it has been alot of trial (and some errors), but because of this relationship we’ve been able to make good deals for both me and them.
> 
> So they heard the Ferrum stack at an event (with the Susvara). They came back, told me it was fantastic and that was that! Next step was finding the ”best” headphone to pair it with. And the search has ended with the LCD-4.



Thank you for taking the time to reply, I very much appreciate it. It sounds as though you've got a great local shop there. I ought to take my LCD-4 and DAC with me to the nearest shop here that stocks the Ferrum stack and give it a whirl for myself! 

I'm glad you found the best headphone to pair with the Ferrums, congratulations!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

TheR0v3r said:


> PS. After several years of owning and trying different planars I decided on the LCD-4’s as my endgame and bought one of the last(?) pairs. In the end it stod between Susvara, LCD-4 and LCD-5.



Just read this and figured I would comment. I just concluded a TOTL headphone search that included a ton of great headphones and the two standouts for me were the DCA Stealth and the LCD 4. I went with the Stealths myself, but much like you I was impressed by the LCD 4s in a way that I wasn't with the LCD 5s, Susvara, Elites/Empyrean, Rad-0, etc. Not that the other headphones weren't very good pairs as well, but they didn't capture my attention and get me engaged in listening like the LCD 4s and the Stealths did. I will most likely end up snagging a pair of the 4s when I come across a good deal at some point.


----------



## TheR0v3r

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Just read this and figured I would comment. I just concluded a TOTL headphone search that included a ton of great headphones and the two standouts for me were the DCA Stealth and the LCD 4. I went with the Stealths myself, but much like you I was impressed by the LCD 4s in a way that I wasn't with the LCD 5s, Susvara, Elites/Empyrean, Rad-0, etc. Not that the other headphones weren't very good pairs as well, but they didn't capture my attention and get me engaged in listening like the LCD 4s and the Stealths did. I will most likely end up snagging a pair of the 4s when I come across a good deal at some point.


How interesting!

The DCA Stealth (and T+A Solitaire) are two headphones that I couldn’t audition. This piqued my interest in the Stealth. 

At a crossroads of sort. My plan has been one dynamic, one planar (and my old HD650). Now with several planars sounding truly fantastic with Ferrum I’m uncertain about the next step. Ditch the dynamic and add another planar or stick with the dynamic and find an amp.


----------



## TheR0v3r

Tchoupitoulas said:


> Thank you for taking the time to reply, I very much appreciate it. It sounds as though you've got a great local shop there. I ought to take my LCD-4 and DAC with me to the nearest shop here that stocks the Ferrum stack and give it a whirl for myself!
> 
> I'm glad you found the best headphone to pair with the Ferrums, congratulations!


Thank you!

Depending on your Dac it could be fun and educational to ask your dealer to use different dacs when auditioning.


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## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 30, 2022)

TheR0v3r said:


> How interesting!
> 
> The DCA Stealth (and T+A Solitaire) are two headphones that I couldn’t audition. This piqued my interest in the Stealth.
> 
> At a crossroads of sort. My plan has been one dynamic, one planar (and my old HD650). Now with several planars sounding truly fantastic with Ferrum I’m uncertain about the next step. Ditch the dynamic and add another planar or stick with the dynamic and find an amp.



I'm not the best guy to talk to about limiting the size of one's collection. The gear listed in my signature is a testament to that and that list is after selling a few pairs recently too! The Stealths and the LCD-4 are not the same in many ways, but they both have this no frills, no bs, super detailed presentation that I find irresistible. That's the common thread that I notice between the two.

I will also say that with the exception of the Stealths and the LCD 4s, I tend to prefer dynamic driver based headphones for the most part. Most of the mid-fi planars I have tried have been disappointing in comparison to their dynamic driver counterparts. Basically until I was trying out the best of the best I just wasn't all that impressed. 

Luckily, I already have some awesome dynamic headphones and when I did this latest TOTL search, I didn't find any new dynamic based pairs that inspired me to buy them or to replaced my ZMFs. Though I was pleasantly surprised by how much I liked the HD800S and I ended up putchasing a pair.

I'll stop rambling now, but I would absolutely suggest that you try the Stealths when you get a chance. For my tastes, they are the best pair of headphones I have ever owned or tried and I won't be getting rid of them any time soon. If you're in SoCal or going to be here at some point and you're interested in trying the Stealths maybe we can work out a day for us to meet up for a listening session.

Edit: The Drop+DCA Aeon X Closed are a mid-fi planar exception as I think they might well be the best sub $1k closed back, IMO. They're also what got me looking at DCA and ultimately the Stealths so I'm quite thankful lol!

Edit 2: I would love to try the Soliaire P as well, but I have never had the chance. They're another pair that intrigues me as well. One of the guys where I demoed the Stealths mentioned them as having some similar properties to the things I was mentioning that I loved in the Stealths themselves.


----------



## krude (Aug 30, 2022)

TheR0v3r said:


> How interesting!
> 
> The DCA Stealth (and T+A Solitaire) are two headphones that I couldn’t audition. This piqued my interest in the Stealth.
> 
> At a crossroads of sort. My plan has been one dynamic, one planar (and my old HD650). Now with several planars sounding truly fantastic with Ferrum I’m uncertain about the next step. Ditch the dynamic and add another planar or stick with the dynamic and find an amp.


Limitting your collection is a wise thing to do. I've got a few sets, and I should really sell most of them ... but each one is so good ... but .... realistically Im listening to only one through the most part, and the one recently is Susvara.

Also ... gear needs burn in, headphones need synergistic chains, chains need burn in, your perception needs burn in 😂 (understanding), your chain needs to be set up correctly (this is more intricate than I thought) yada yada yada.

Truth be told, you should spend with a single TOTL 1 to 2 years maximising it, to trully experience all of it's potential, because the potential is what you're paying for here. That's the difference between TOTL and midfi, and unfortunately midfi often becomes a rabbit hole that ends up being a long winded disappointment 😖

2 different TOTL sets and working on the chain for a year or two seems really sensible to me


----------



## Francisco Evangelista

Do you know it the sound quality the same using RCA input as XLR input?


----------



## TheR0v3r

Francisco Evangelista said:


> Do you know it the sound quality the same using RCA input as XLR input?


I started with rca, switched to xlr and now I’m back to rca. Right now I prefer rca


----------



## adrianm

Francisco Evangelista said:


> Do you know it the sound quality the same using RCA input as XLR input?


They both use the same signal path, the dac is what will make the difference.


----------



## TheR0v3r

adrianm said:


> They both use the same signal path, the dac is what will make the difference.


I have used the same dac but changed cables, so it’s the signal path in the dac that makes the difference?


----------



## adrianm

TheR0v3r said:


> I have used the same dac but changed cables, so it’s the signal path in the dac that makes the difference?


I would assume so. In Dave for example, since it's not a true balanced designed, opamps are used, which add distortion. There are better ways to do it, but I imagine it's better to avoid any conversions. IE use XLR with a balanced dac. Of course Oor also responds differently to different voltages, so there's that as well. With Dave there is a 2-3 db increase in snr when using RCA. XLR also sounds "warmer" to me.


----------



## TheR0v3r

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I'm not the best guy to talk to about limiting the size of one's collection. The gear listed in my signature is a testament to that and that list is after selling a few pairs recently too! The Stealths and the LCD-4 are not the same in many ways, but they both have this no frills, no bs, super detailed presentation that I find irresistible. That's the common thread that I notice between the two.
> 
> I will also say that with the exception of the Stealths and the LCD 4s, I tend to prefer dynamic driver based headphones for the most part. Most of the mid-fi planars I have tried have been disappointing in comparison to their dynamic driver counterparts. Basically until I was trying out the best of the best I just wasn't all that impressed.
> 
> ...


Nice collection, congrats 

My experience resembles yours. I’ve tended to prefer dynamic driver headphones until I tried Susvara, LCD-4 and LCD-5 (also liked the Arya v2). Now, reading about your experience with Stealth really, really want to try them. Too bad that I’m in northern Europe otherwise I’d gladly accept your generous offer 🙏

The ”problem” now is that with the Ferrum stack LCD-4 > ZMF Verite Open.

P.S. I can see the HD800S being a fine addition to your collection.


----------



## TheR0v3r

krude said:


> Limitting your collection is a wise thing to do. I've got a few sets, and I should really sell most of them ... but each one is so good ... but .... realistically Im listening to only one through the most part, and the one recently is Susvara.
> 
> Also ... gear needs burn in, headphones need synergistic chains, chains need burn in, your perception needs burn in 😂 (understanding), your chain needs to be set up correctly (this is more intricate than I thought) yada yada yada.
> 
> ...


Beautiful collection   

After 40 years in this hobby I’ve finally figured out that your absolutely bang on concluding ”the potential is what you’re paying for”. I hope everyone else is a quicker learner than I am 

Get a good pair of headphones (or speakers) and then work on the chain for a year or two is such good advice!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

TheR0v3r said:


> Nice collection, congrats
> 
> My experience resembles yours. I’ve tended to prefer dynamic driver headphones until I tried Susvara, LCD-4 and LCD-5 (also liked the Arya v2). Now, reading about your experience with Stealth really, really want to try them. Too bad that I’m in northern Europe otherwise I’d gladly accept your generous offer 🙏
> 
> The ”problem” now is that with the Ferrum stack LCD-4 > ZMF Verite Open.



If you ever make it stateside at all feel free to hit me up. I travel a lot as well so you never know where I might be able to meet you with the Stealths. If you wait 6 months I'll be in Europe touring so maybe we can work something out then if I bring the Stealths with me.

It's funny you mention the Verite Open combo with the Oor not being great. I noticed the other night that my ZMF Atrium don't make the best pairing with the Oor stack either. The Verite Closed was a bit better, but I still much prefer both of my ZMFs on my Burson Timekeeper 3i or even on SMSL M400. Nothing I have tried touches the Oor/Gustard X26 rig with the Stealths though.


----------



## TheR0v3r

JAnonymous5150 said:


> If you ever make it stateside at all feel free to hit me up. I travel a lot as well so you never know where I might be able to meet you with the Stealths. If you wait 6 months I'll be in Europe touring so maybe we can work something out then if I bring the Stealths with me.
> 
> It's funny you mention the Verite Open combo with the Oor not being great. I noticed the other night that my ZMF Atrium don't make the best pairing with the Oor stack either. The Verite Closed was a bit better, but I still much prefer both of my ZMFs on my Burson Timekeeper 3i or even on SMSL M400. Nothing I have tried touches the Oor/Gustard X26 rig with the Stealths though.


Brilliant, please PM me when you know the touring schedule for Europe 

The Gustard X26 looks very nice and I can totally see it being a great match. FYI, I use the Merason Dac1 (connected to a Singxer SU-6) and it also has a Class A output stage. 

P.S. Thanks for sharing your impressions with ZMF’s.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

TheR0v3r said:


> Brilliant, please PM me when you know the touring schedule for Europe
> 
> The Gustard X26 looks very nice and I can totally see it being a great match. FYI, I use the Merason Dac1 (connected to a Singxer SU-6) and it also has a Class A output stage.
> 
> P.S. Thanks for sharing your impressions with ZMF’s.



When I get home and have the schedule in front of me I'll shoot you a PM.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

TheR0v3r said:


> Brilliant, please PM me when you know the touring schedule for Europe
> 
> The Gustard X26 looks very nice and I can totally see it being a great match. FYI, I use the Merason Dac1 (connected to a Singxer SU-6) and it also has a Class A output stage.
> 
> P.S. Thanks for sharing your impressions with ZMF’s.



Sorry for replying twice but somehow I overlooked the Merason DAC1 comment. You're not messin' around with that bad boy!


----------



## TheR0v3r

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Sorry for replying twice but somehow I overlooked the Merason DAC1 comment. You're not messin' around with that bad boy!


Thank you, appreciate it!

It’s not very well known (maybe obscure?) but IMHO it’s very, very good. I was aiming for one of the ”lesser” MSB’s but in the end too expensive for me. The Merason actually has some strengths even in comparison with them, but of course in total the MSB’s are better. 

Sorry for the off-topic.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

JAnonymous5150 said:


> If you ever make it stateside at all feel free to hit me up. I travel a lot as well so you never know where I might be able to meet you with the Stealths. If you wait 6 months I'll be in Europe touring so maybe we can work something out then if I bring the Stealths with me.
> 
> It's funny you mention the Verite Open combo with the Oor not being great. I noticed the other night that my ZMF Atrium don't make the best pairing with the Oor stack either. The Verite Closed was a bit better, but I still much prefer both of my ZMFs on my Burson Timekeeper 3i or even on SMSL M400. Nothing I have tried touches the Oor/Gustard X26 rig with the Stealths though.



I am the opposite to you.   To me, the Atrium has fantastic tuning, so it pairs well with everything I own.   The VC, with its funky frequency response curve, needs specific amp and pad combinations to sound right.  Once you get it right, though, it is a glorious sound.    To me, the VC sounds the best on tubes and is pretty hit or miss on solid state amps.   So, I listen most to my Atriums on the Ferrum Orr and VC on my Ampsandsound Rockwell.


----------



## TheR0v3r

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I am the opposite to you.   To me, the Atrium has fantastic tuning, so it pairs well with everything I own.   The VC, with its funky frequency response curve, needs specific amp and pad combinations to sound right.  Once you get it right, though, it is a glorious sound.    To me, the VC sounds the best on tubes and is pretty hit or miss on solid state amps.   So, I listen most to my Atriums on the Ferrum Orr and VC on my Ampsandsound Rockwell.


Thanks, interesting. Any experience with VO and thoughts on pads?


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

TheR0v3r said:


> Thanks, interesting. Any experience with VO and thoughts on pads?



Only heard the VO few times at Canjams.   I cannot provide great impressions on them.   I do love the new Auteur Classic.  It is a bit warmer than the Atriums.  Great tuning though.


----------



## Somatic

Anyone using aftermarket AC cables for the Ferrum stack? Any differences?


----------



## DJJEZ

Somatic said:


> Anyone using aftermarket AC cables for the Ferrum stack? Any differences?


I thought you were gonna sell the ferrum stack?


----------



## Somatic

DJJEZ said:


> I thought you were gonna sell the ferrum stack?


LOL. I ended up unpacking it and giving it another go. I quite like it. 

Doing A/B with Susvara just now with Solo Dave + Farad3. Its clearer with Dave+Farad3. Entire spectrum is very clean. Articulate.

With Ferrum stack at 27v, I notice slight warmness, treble becomes a bit darker, bass has a bit more heft and added weight. What I notice that I like from the Ferrum stack is how it portrays reverb tails, the decay of sounds. Vocals become a bit more seductive. Very smooth and relaxing. Soundstage width decreases a bit but liking what I'm hearing.

Bought pure silver interconnect for the RCA and silver/copper XLR cables. Will see if I can squeeze a bit more transparency from the Dave. I bought the SR Purple fuses and hoping it adds even more warmth but keeps detail etc the same.

The added headroom for the Susvara is nice to have.

I prefer the A8000 out of Ferrum stack and also SolP.

Messing around with pure silver, copper/silver and pure copper headphone cables. See what combo etc I'm liking.


----------



## krude

New furniture just arrived 😀🥰 colour match is strong with this one 🤠


----------



## DMITRIY R

krude said:


> New furniture just arrived 😀🥰 colour match is strong with this one 🤠


Share your impression of the comparison of Ferrum stack and Soloist GT + Supercharger 5A. Thank you.


----------



## krude

DMITRIY R said:


> Share your impression of the comparison of Ferrum stack and Soloist GT + Supercharger 5A. Thank you.


Hey, search my posts here and in the GT thread, was writing about it extensively. TLDR is that I stayed with Ferrum, but YMMV.


----------



## ChJL

Somatic said:


> I’m happy with the Hypsos but wondering if anyone tried using another LPS with the OOR instead such as the Farad3?


Search for ifi Elite in this thread! One preferes it over the Hypsos...


----------



## ChJL

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Okay, so after a long head to head audition, I decided to pick up the Oor/Hypsos over the GS-Xmini in order to have a second setup to power my DCA Stealths aside from my Burson. Now I need to choose a dedicated DAC to go with the Oor to complete the stack. Anybody have any suggestions for DACs that really go well with the Oor? TIA!


Maybe X26 pro and get clean power plus a Synergistic Purple which some who have this DAC seem to like a lot...


----------



## JAnonymous5150

ChJL said:


> Maybe X26 pro and get clean power plus a Synergistic Purple which some who have this DAC seem to like a lot...



I am currently using the X26 and it is in fact very good in combination with the Oor/Hypsos rig. I'm not sure how much I think a fuse can effect/improve sound quality, but I'm open to the possibility I suppose. What is the Purple supposed to provide in the way of better sound and performance in this setup?


----------



## Francisco Evangelista (Aug 31, 2022)

adrianm said:


> They both use the same signal path, the dac is what will make the difference.


i'm on RCA to but want to try XLR, waiting for a good cables to arrive. Dac is the Chord Hugo TT2(upgrade from a Mojo 2), have it for two days now still discovering , but i'm loving it


----------



## elira

Francisco Evangelista said:


> Dac is Chord Hugo TT2(upgrade from a Mojo 2)


That's a huge upgrade.


----------



## Francisco Evangelista (Aug 31, 2022)

elira said:


> That's a huge upgrade.


Yes it was crazy, but i know myself... i was spending money trying other things and was not happy( like Fiio K9 Pro Ess) . The Mojo 2 use some mojo on me i was hooked to Chord sound! Also received today a Feliks Audio Echo 2, super happy i think I'm set for now or not( M Scaler?)


----------



## kumar402

Francisco Evangelista said:


> Yes it was crazy, but i know myself... i was spending money trying other things and was not happy( like Fiio K9 Pro Ess) . The Mojo 2 use some mojo on me i was hooked to Chord sound! Also received today a Feliks Audio Echo 2, super happy i think I'm set for now or not( M Scaler?)


Who are you kidding, we all know you will end up buying a MScalar


----------



## Francisco Evangelista

kumar402 said:


> Who are you kidding, we all know you will end up buying a MScalar


Hope not my wallet is skinny 😅 loving the paring of the Ferrum oor + Hypsos with TT2. I’m going to bed late every night since it arrived , can’t keep like this every night , I will 😴 at work


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## hypnos1 (Sep 1, 2022)

kumar402 said:


> Who are you kidding, we all know you will end up buying a MScalar


Indubitably kumar! 


Francisco Evangelista said:


> Hope not my wallet is skinny 😅 loving the paring of the Ferrum oor + Hypsos with TT2. I’m going to bed late every night since it arrived , can’t keep like this every night , I will 😴 at work


A marriage made in Heaven F E...more so even than with my godchild F-A Euforia lol. 

Re. the mscaler...this can sometimes be not so cut and dried alas. Much depends on the rest of the system - and more so than is usually the case it would appear (especially given its (now)cost! However, given _really_ good cables also, I personally have found that with TT2, the combo addresses nicely those areas sometimes mentioned in reviews as slightly below competing amps...viz air around instruments; stage width/'presence'/positioning; tad less 'sparkle'/excitement up top; detail resolution etc. In my own system, I just do not recognise _any_ of said (mildly) critical comments, HYPSOS/OOR's wonderfully smooth (and *sweetly* trebled) delivery also being deceptively dynamic...in a _*refined/understated*_ way, and not 'in yer face' (which is just how I personally like it lol). But as far as I'm concerned, it's no less 'exciting' when called for...in a _mature_ rather than _frivolous_ way! 

ps. Something to bear in mind if you do torture your wallet however...As I and others have found, it can sometimes take quite a while before mscaler's full potential shows itself...*Edit*...or, rather perhaps, we _perceive _it! But what it can do for standard CD quality material is quite remarkable - especially when fed directly by a really good CD player lol. So an _extended_ demo would be a real godsend if possible...GOOD LUCK!


----------



## TheR0v3r

hypnos1 said:


> Indubitably kumar!
> 
> A marriage made in Heaven F E...more so even than with my godchild F-A Euforia lol.
> 
> ...


Perception is everything, and we perceive things differently. I ended up selling the M scaler. 


Francisco Evangelista said:


> i'm on RCA to but want to try XLR, waiting for a good cables to arrive. Dac is the Chord Hugo TT2(upgrade from a Mojo 2), have it for two days now still discovering , but i'm loving it


Congrats on the TT2, it’s excellent!


----------



## Somatic (Sep 1, 2022)

EMINENT said:


>


Hmmm my cover looks a little bit different ... I connected SR in the same way. S would be facing top of case and R facing the bottom of the case. Is this the direction the fuse is going? I'm double checking with Ferrum support. Thanks


----------



## Somatic (Sep 1, 2022)

Ok got the new SR fuses on the Ferrum. Letting it burn it. But so far so good. Sounds less harsh with the SolPs. Nice and smooth. Bass sounds cleaner. More in control?

Happy with it. I don't find it overly warm. I like the SR Purple as I have them on the Dave Farad3. I'm used to them. 

Edit: I guess it is a bit warmer. But doesn't sound like it. Just that sibilant tracks and treble is a lot smoother without losing detail. I'm actually turning up the volume higher than before as the treble doesn't sound egregious to me.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

hypnos1 said:


> Indubitably kumar!
> 
> A marriage made in Heaven F E...more so even than with my godchild F-A Euforia lol.
> 
> ...



Not to derail the Oor/Hypsos and related talk, but I actually have a demo set up to check out the M Scaler and TT2 with my Oor/Hypsos stack and my DCA Stealths to see if how I like the combo. Are you saying I really need longer than the 4 hour demo slot to get a taste for what the M Scaler can do? 

The owner of the hifi shop I'm demoing at seems to think that he can sell me on it in that time as I originally called just to tryout the TT2 and had no intention of checking out the M Scaler. I don't want to spend demo time on the M Scaler if I really need a much longer session as I have a friend who owns one that would let me borrow it for a longer trial period if I decide that I'm interested.

TBH, the M Scaler would have to be VERY impressive for me to decide to drop that kinda cash on upsampling. Of the few people I know that have owned or do own it, opinions are very split with 3 saying that it's benefits are minimal to nil, 2 saying it's useful, but expensive for what it does, and 1 being enthusiastically pro-M Scaler.


----------



## 801evan

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Not to derail the Oor/Hypsos and related talk, but I actually have a demo set up to check out the M Scaler and TT2 with my Oor/Hypsos stack and my DCA Stealths to see if how I like the combo. Are you saying I really need longer than the 4 hour demo slot to get a taste for what the M Scaler can do?
> 
> The owner of the hifi shop I'm demoing at seems to think that he can sell me on it in that time as I originally called just to tryout the TT2 and had no intention of checking out the M Scaler. I don't want to spend demo time on the M Scaler if I really need a much longer session as I have a friend who owns one that would let me borrow it for a longer trial period if I decide that I'm interested.
> 
> TBH, the M Scaler would have to be VERY impressive for me to decide to drop that kinda cash on upsampling. Of the few people I know that have owned or do own it, opinions are very split with 3 saying that it's benefits are minimal to nil, 2 saying it's useful, but expensive for what it does, and 1 being enthusiastically pro-M Scaler.


Benefits for the m scaler depends on the quality of the transport. If you have a good transport, mscaler will make it worse. So it depends on how convenient you want your life to be or the pursuits of beating the HMS.


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## Somatic (Sep 1, 2022)

801evan said:


> Benefits for the m scaler depends on the quality of the transport. If you have a good transport, mscaler will make it worse. So it depends on how convenient you want your life to be or the pursuits of beating the HMS.


I was not a fan of the Mscaler. Added some slight digital glare and the benefits were very small to my ears. Adding an LPS was a huge delta in performance. I agree, source is crucial.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

801evan said:


> Benefits for the m scaler depends on the quality of the transport. If you have a good transport, mscaler will make it worse. So it depends on how convenient you want your life to be or the pursuits of beating the HMS.



Thanks for the info. I really appreciate it.

That tallies with what a couple people have already told me. To be frank, I have been pretty happy without dedicated upsampling of my CD quality stuff. I have one friend who swears by the M Scaler so when the owner of the shop I contacted for the TT2 demo mentioned that he could show me the M Scaler while we're at it and that I would be surprised by what it can do I figured why not. However, if the advantages are something I need a much longer demo to get an idea of I'd prefer not to waste time on it during my TT2 demo. That's why I was asking.


----------



## TheR0v3r

Somatic said:


> I was not a fan of the Mscaler. Added some slight digital glare and the benefits were very small to my ears. Adding an LPS was a huge delta in performance. I agree, source is crucial.


Excellent advice. In hindsight I should’ve tried it with a LPS.


----------



## hypnos1 (Sep 1, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Thanks for the info. I really appreciate it.
> 
> That tallies with what a couple people have already told me. To be frank, I have been pretty happy without dedicated upsampling of my CD quality stuff. I have one friend who swears by the M Scaler so when the owner of the shop I contacted for the TT2 demo mentioned that he could show me the M Scaler while we're at it and that I would be surprised by what it can do I figured why not. However, if the advantages are something I need a much longer demo to get an idea of I'd prefer not to waste time on it during my TT2 demo. That's why I was asking.


Yes...opinions are indeed very divided, and system/ears dependent (as usual!). Which is why one really does need a _very_ long time to assess whether it's worth the not inconsiderable cost! In fact, I personally would say you need to live with it for a good few _weeks _at the very least. And in my own particular case, mscaler is definitely upscaling RedBook via my Denon SACD/CD player to a much higher standard than either the Naim UnitiCore or Antipodes DX units. So again, one _must_ try it in one's own system before being able to come to any kind of viable conclusion lol.

ps. I too am using an LPS with both mscaler and TT2...


----------



## TheR0v3r

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Thanks for the info. I really appreciate it.
> 
> That tallies with what a couple people have already told me. To be frank, I have been pretty happy without dedicated upsampling of my CD quality stuff. I have one friend who swears by the M Scaler so when the owner of the shop I contacted for the TT2 demo mentioned that he could show me the M Scaler while we're at it and that I would be surprised by what it can do I figured why not. However, if the advantages are something I need a much longer demo to get an idea of I'd prefer not to waste time on it during my TT2 demo. That's why I was asking.


It’s definitely worth to try. 

I eq “everything” and I’m pretty sure that there is something there that doesn’t play well with M scaler. Just my hypothesis.


----------



## TheR0v3r (Sep 1, 2022)

hypnos1 said:


> Yes...opinions are indeed very divided, and system/ears dependent (as usual!). Which is why one really does need a _very_ long time to assess whether it's worth the not inconsiderable cost! In fact, I personally would say you need to live with it for a good few _weeks _at the very least. And in my own particular case, mscaler is definitely upscaling RedBook via my Denon SACD/CD player to a much higher standard than either the Naim UnitiCore or Antipodes DX units. So again, one _must_ try it in one's own system before being able to come to any kind of viable conclusion lol.
> 
> ps. I too am using an LPS with both mscaler and TT2...


Excellent advice 👍

Edit: This is great advice because sometimes it’s easier to hear the difference when something is taken away rather than added. The M scaler is such a case IMHO.


----------



## hypnos1

TheR0v3r said:


> Excellent advice 👍
> 
> Edit: This is great advice because sometimes it’s easier to hear the difference when something is taken away rather than added. The M scaler is such a case IMHO.


Thanks...that's precisely what finally convinced me of its merits, after initial slight disappointment... as was the case with several of my friends' experience. Would not now want to be without it...


----------



## JAnonymous5150

hypnos1 said:


> Yes...opinions are indeed very divided, and system/ears dependent (as usual!). Which is why one really does need a _very_ long time to assess whether it's worth the not inconsiderable cost! In fact, I personally would say you need to live with it for a good few _weeks _at the very least. And in my own particular case, mscaler is definitely upscaling RedBook via my Denon SACD/CD player to a much higher standard than either the Naim UnitiCore or Antipodes DX units. So again, one _must_ try it in one's own system before being able to come to any kind of viable conclusion lol.
> 
> ps. I too am using an LPS with both mscaler and TT2...



Which Denon do you use it with? If I were to get the M Scaler it would be working with my Denon CD/SACD player too which is why I ask. For reference, I have the DCD-1600NE and I actually like it a lot. The 1600NE replaced a Sony that was a little outdated. I just recently (6 months ago) unpacked my pretty sizeable CD collection which had been in boxes in storage since I moved into my new house. I still mostly do the sigital streaming thing, but I enjoy spinning CDs on occasion and my nostalgia for the experience of tactile medium listening is what inspired the purchase of my Denon.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

TheR0v3r said:


> It’s definitely worth to try.
> 
> I eq “everything” and I’m pretty sure that there is something there that doesn’t play well with M scaler. Just my hypothesis.



I mostly stay away from EQ, though I will occasionally use it to enhance a certain section of a track or piece if I am doing some critical listening or to provide a simple bass shelf or something to provide a minor tweak on a pair of headphones. I used to EQ everything and use my kwn targets and all that, but I have moved towards using matched audio chains more than EQ these days.

I will look out for the glare you mention to see if it comes through all the time or just when EQ is applied. Thanks again! This kind of info is really hepful.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

hypnos1 said:


> Thanks...that's precisely what finally convinced me of its merits, after initial slight disappointment... as was the case with several of my friends' experience. Would not now want to be without it...



BTW, I'm definitely not looking to make some final judgement about the M Scaler. I was just hoping that in the demo time I have available it would be able to give me enough of a taste of what it can do for me to know if it has enough potential to make it worth purchasing and sitting down with to figure out what it does best over the long term.


----------



## hypnos1

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Which Denon do you use it with? If I were to get the M Scaler it would be working with my Denon CD/SACD player too which is why I ask. For reference, I have the DCD-1600NE and I actually like it a lot. The 1600NE replaced a Sony that was a little outdated. I just recently (6 months ago) unpacked my pretty sizeable CD collection which had been in boxes in storage since I moved into my new house. I still mostly do the sigital streaming thing, but I enjoy spinning CDs on occasion and my nostalgia for the experience of tactile medium listening is what inspired the purchase of my Denon.


Hi JA...that's the very model I have, and I _love_ it. Taking a cue from the much more expensive 2500NE's use of copper to reduce vibration, and a video of a Cambridge Audio CD player's surprise improvement by sticking some sound deadening material on its top cover's underside, I stuck some Dynamat Xtreme mat (better even than what he used) on all blank spaces inside the Denon's chassis and on its underside; on case sides, and top's underside. Along with replacing the main internal power/audio fuse (the one nearest the case's back) with a HiFi Tuning Supreme 3, the leap in performance was greater than expected and easily matched that of the 2500 NE I tried before the 1600.
 Although lacking the functionality of the Antipodes, I cannot now go back to an inferior sound...especially via streaming lol! With the Ferrum combo now in place, I never realised just how good CD 16bit/44.1kHz can sound...and with 24bit/176/192kHz (upscaled by mscaler to 704/768) tracks burned to DVD data disc - _phenomenal!_

ps *A word of warning *re hires (or standard even) downloads if from Qobuz and burned to disc - _*for some reason they brick the Denons!!*_...such that they don't respond to 'Open' and therefore won't eject the disc. I now know that it is in fact very easy to just open up the case and remove the disc...essential if out of warranty and can't return lol...


----------



## JAnonymous5150

hypnos1 said:


> Hi JA...that's the very model I have, and I _love_ it. Taking a cue from the much more expensive 2500NE's use of copper to reduce vibration, and a video of a Cambridge Audio CD player's surprise improvement by sticking some sound deadening material on its top cover's underside, I stuck some Dynamat Xtreme mat (better even than what he used) on all blank spaces inside the Denon's chassis and on its underside; on case sides, and top's underside. Along with replacing the main internal power/audio fuse (the one nearest the case's back) with a HiFi Tuning Supreme 3, the leap in performance was greater than expected and easily matched that of the 2500 NE I tried before the 1600.
> Although lacking the functionality of the Antipodes, I cannot now go back to an inferior sound...especially via streaming lol! With the Ferrum combo now in place, I never realised just how good CD 16bit/44.1kHz can sound...and with 24bit/176/192kHz (upscaled by mscaler to 704/768) tracks burned to DVD data disc - _phenomenal!_
> 
> ps *A word of warning *re hires (or standard even) downloads if from Qobuz and burned to disc - _*for some reason they brick the Denons!!*_...such that they don't respond to 'Open' and therefore won't eject the disc. I now know that it is in fact very easy to just open up the case and remove the disc...essential if out of warranty and can't return lol...



Thanks for the heads-up re burned discs from Qobuz. Luckily I only play discs that I purchase on it and I don't burn my own. I do own a lot of music from Qobuz and HDTracks that I keep in a digital collection, but I also own nearly 5k CDs and SACDs. Do you have any idea why discs burned from Qobuz media has that effect on the Denon players or have you reached out to Denon about it? Is it exclusive to Qobuz?

Thanks for the great info about the mods to your 1600NE. I never realized just how lackluster my Sony unit's performance was until I demoed the Denon units. I tried out the 2500 as well, but thr 1600 checked all the boxes for me and since digital streaming is still my primary listening method it seemed like a cost effective way to go as well. The 1600 is one heck of a unit and it sounds fantastic for sure.


----------



## hypnos1

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Thanks for the heads-up re burned discs from Qobuz. Luckily I only play discs that I purchase on it and I don't burn my own. I do own a lot of music from Qobuz and HDTracks that I keep in a digital collection, but I also own nearly 5k CDs and SACDs. Do you have any idea why discs burned from Qobuz media has that effect on the Denon players or have you reached out to Denon about it? Is it exclusive to Qobuz?
> 
> Thanks for the great info about the mods to your 1600NE. I never realized just how lackluster my Sony unit's performance was until I demoed the Denon units. I tried out the 2500 as well, but thr 1600 checked all the boxes for me and since digital streaming is still my primary listening method it seemed like a cost effective way to go as well. The 1600 is one heck of a unit and it sounds fantastic for sure.


5k CDs/SACDs?...phew! Several lifetimes' listening methinks...and that's without the streaming. Tart up your Denon and I'm sure they'll see the light of day a good bit more lol!! 

Re downloaded Qobuz files burned to discs...basically it would appear they either contain some info that _shouldn't_ be there, or are missing something that _should_ be! - as far as the Denons are concerned at least. They get stuck in a 'Reading' cycle and nothing will coax them into playing. But worse still is that the machine then refuses to respond to 'Open' command and your stuck!! A 'phone call to Denon and when even a 'reinitialization' didn't work they said return it. This happened first with the 2500 NE, and then _again_ with a 1600 NE! It wasn't until afterwards that I managed to trace the culprit down to those Qobuz files, and haven't dared tell Denon yet!! But I posted warnings on Denon threads, where others had found the same issue. Files from HDTracks are fine, and when Qobuz's WAV are 'converted' to WAV again using dBpoweramp (free) _they work faultlessly??!!_

Fortunately for me however, the experience encouraged me to go for a little used secondhand model that I stole for £450! Then I was able to get inside and do the mods without worrying about negating warranty, plus see how easy it was to remove a disc if ever needed!! So my cloud ended up having a _gold_ lining, not mere silver lol.

Good luck with your own Denon...and with any mscaler trial - on which I hope you will give some feedback later if you do indeed go ahead with


----------



## Somatic

The SR Purples are burning in. I feel I get a lot more bass from the OOR now. Using the SolP which is known to have strong bass, it was almost too much. I do like bass though.

Definitely feel like it helps smooth things out without losing detail. There is some more spaciousness to the sound. I'm very impressed with it.


----------



## ChJL

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I am currently using the X26 and it is in fact very good in combination with the Oor/Hypsos rig. I'm not sure how much I think a fuse can effect/improve sound quality, but I'm open to the possibility I suppose. What is the Purple supposed to provide in the way of better sound and performance in this setup?


Before purchasing the X26 pro I went through the thread on here and a few guys really are of the opinion that a SR Purple improves it's performance. (better controlled and deeper bass, smoother highs without loosing detail, more engaging sound and such...)
Seems like many like the Purple also with other devices and the Hypsos as well.

I'm not sure as well but will try it some time. 
"That bottleneck argument" makes sense to me.
Maybe the same as with most stock HP cables?

I also got this answer from
someone: (MartinWT)

---SR Purple seem to work best for AC power, Hifi Tuning for DC.---

This was to my question SR vs Hifi Tuning...
meaning SR for X26 pro and a Hifi Tuning for the Hypsos!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

hypnos1 said:


> 5k CDs/SACDs?...phew! Several lifetimes' listening methinks...and that's without the streaming. Tart up your Denon and I'm sure they'll see the light of day a good bit more lol!!
> 
> Re downloaded Qobuz files burned to discs...basically it would appear they either contain some info that _shouldn't_ be there, or are missing something that _should_ be! - as far as the Denons are concerned at least. They get stuck in a 'Reading' cycle and nothing will coax them into playing. But worse still is that the machine then refuses to respond to 'Open' command and your stuck!! A 'phone call to Denon and when even a 'reinitialization' didn't work they said return it. This happened first with the 2500 NE, and then _again_ with a 1600 NE! It wasn't until afterwards that I managed to trace the culprit down to those Qobuz files, and haven't dared tell Denon yet!! But I posted warnings on Denon threads, where others had found the same issue. Files from HDTracks are fine, and when Qobuz's WAV are 'converted' to WAV again using dBpoweramp (free) _they work faultlessly??!!_
> 
> ...



Thanks for the detailed info!

My CD collection is massive for sure! Being a professional musician myself, I know how important sales are to supporting your favorite artists so I try to make a point of purchasing the physical media or more recently (digital dowload/ownership rights) for stuff that I really like. 

I also listen to more music than just about anybody I know. As the drummer and primary lyricist and songwriter for my band, I find listening to music and constantly exploring new stuff to be the most effective way of preventing myself from falling into creative ruts. I literally listen to multiple hours a day pretty much every single day.

Thanks again for the info! I will have to warn a couple other Denon owners I know about the Qobuz issue. Cheers!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

ChJL said:


> Before purchasing the X26 pro I went through the thread on here and a few guys really are of the opinion that a SR Purple improves it's performance. (better controlled and deeper bass, smoother highs without loosing detail, more engaging sound and such...)
> Seems like many like the Purple also with other devices and the Hypsos as well.
> 
> I'm not sure as well but will try it some time.
> ...



Thanks for the heads up! It certainly never hurts to try so I just might have to do some research and place an order.


----------



## ChJL

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Thanks for the heads up! It certainly never hurts to try so I just might have to do some research and place an order.


Yeah funny, let's say I Upgrade both X26 and Hypsos with a SR Purple. Now will O be getting too much of the same?

I'll go with MartinWT recommendation and try a Hifi Tuning for the Hypsos.


----------



## hypnos1 (Sep 5, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Thanks for the heads up! It certainly never hurts to try so I just might have to do some research and place an order.





ChJL said:


> Yeah funny, let's say I Upgrade both X26 and Hypsos with a SR Purple. Now will O be getting too much of the same?
> 
> I'll go with MartinWT recommendation and try a Hifi Tuning for the Hypsos.


Hi guys.

Re. SR vs HiFI Tuning fuses, my understanding was that SRs had more love at the _*amplification*_ stage, and HiFi Tuning at the upstream *signal*...the former (possibly) giving more weight/dynamics/bass enhancement, the latter more detail clarity/resolution?

I must also say that all the HiFi Tuning fuses in my own system - the obsolete 'Silver Stars' and Supreme 3s, are in no way lacking in those areas mentioned re the SRs. In fact, I myself wouldn't want any more in the bass department especially...and certainly nothing that might hint at extra 'warmth' lol . The HiFi Ts also help towards the 'cleanest' delivery I've ever heard.

Another factor has got to be _cost_ IMHO...those SR Purples are hellishly expensive, the HiFi Ts much more 'affordable' for most folks. And I don't know of anyone who lets you demo them first!! So, tricky questions methinks...especially given different systems/ears/preferences etc etc !!

Good luck with both your choices...


----------



## drummerdimitri

I am considering a Ferrum OOR or ERCO and was wondering how I could easily switch between preamp output to my powered monitors and headphone listening. 
There doesn't seem to be a switch on the front panel unless I am missing something here?


----------



## krude

drummerdimitri said:


> I am considering a Ferrum OOR or ERCO and was wondering how I could easily switch between preamp output to my powered monitors and headphone listening.
> There doesn't seem to be a switch on the front panel unless I am missing something here?


They are always active. Just switch on active monitors and you can have headphones playing at the same time. You have to disconnect the headphones tho if you want them off.


----------



## drummerdimitri

krude said:


> They are always active. Just switch on active monitors and you can have headphones playing at the same time. You have to disconnect the headphones tho if you want them off.


Silly they haven't made an output switch like on most similar gear these days. 

Will have to pass on them then just because of this inconvenience for a desktop setup.


----------



## krude

drummerdimitri said:


> Silly they haven't made an output switch like on most similar gear these days.
> 
> Will have to pass on them then just because of this inconvenience for a desktop setup.


I use Oor as a preamp half of the time and its not as inconvenient as I thought. Maybe bc I have a few sets of headphones and 2 amps and I always plug and unplug stuff anyway 🤷


----------



## drummerdimitri

krude said:


> I use Oor as a preamp half of the time and its not as inconvenient as I thought. Maybe bc I have a few sets of headphones and 2 amps and I always plug and unplug stuff anyway 🤷


It's not like it automatically disables the line output when headphones are plugged in and my monitors have to be turned off from the back so having to constantly run back, turn them off and plug your headphones in to listen is quite silly honestly. 

Doesn't suit my setup but I am sure many are fine with it.


----------



## krude (Sep 5, 2022)

drummerdimitri said:


> It's not like it automatically disables the line output when headphones are plugged in and my monitors have to be turned off from the back so having to constantly run back, turn them off and plug your headphones in to listen is quite silly honestly.
> 
> Doesn't suit my setup but I am sure many are fine with it.


As I see, Ive got nifty switches in front panels of my monitors. Hmm


----------



## Somatic

ChJL said:


> Yeah funny, let's say I Upgrade both X26 and Hypsos with a SR Purple. Now will O be getting too much of the same?
> 
> I'll go with MartinWT recommendation and try a Hifi Tuning for the Hypsos.


I have 4 SR purples in my chain. Just more of the same great sound.


----------



## AcousticMatt

Has anyone tried this amp (w/ Hypsos or not) with any ZMF headphones?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

AcousticMatt said:


> Has anyone tried this amp (w/ Hypsos or not) with any ZMF headphones?



Yes, I have used the Oor/Hypsos with my VCs and Atriums.


----------



## AcousticMatt

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Yes, I have used the Oor/Hypsos with my VCs and Atriums.


What're your thoughts? I own the Oor and like it, but have only used it with planars and just bought a set of stabilized VCs!


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 8, 2022)

AcousticMatt said:


> What're your thoughts? I own the Oor and like it, but have only used it with planars and just bought a set of stabilized VCs!



I actually specifically chose the Oor/Hypsos over the GS-X mini because of how well in paired with my VCs (Silkwood, no epoxy for me lol) secondarily to how perfectly it matched with my DCA Stealths which was the primary reason I purchased the stack. Match it with the DAC of your choice and you'll love it. Though, overall I haven't found a DAC pairing yet that I like as much paired with the VCs or Atriums as I do my Burson Timekeeper 3i which has a special synergy with the ZMF musicality and takes it to the next level.

So far I have the Gustard X26 and RME ADI-2 as the best DACs when paired with the Oor/Hypsos stack and I love them both with the Stealths, HD800S, K812/K872, etc but while the match with the ZMFs is good it's not special like with yhe Tk3i. I think that's more about the DAC than the amo though.


----------



## 801evan (Sep 8, 2022)

I was quite surprised how similar Atrium and Stealth can sound. Yet, Stealth gets a lot of flack while Atrium gets a lot of love but if I improve the chain further, Atrium gets dusted and the Stealth just gets better in everything. 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️


----------



## JAnonymous5150

801evan said:


> I was quite surprised how similar Atrium and Stealth can sound. Yet, Stealth gets a lot of flack while Atrium gets a lot of love but if improve the chain further, Atrium gets dusted and the Stealth just gets better in everything. 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️



I think most people that dog the Stealths have never heard them through a proper dedicated setup. I think they may be the most picky headphones when it comes to source/chain that I have ever come across.  The Atriums in the other hand, sound good through just about any good setup, IMO. But, you're definitely right. If people represented the properties/sound of the Atriums and the Stealths in a Venn diagram, most of them would be surprised at how much overlap there is.

Don't get me wrong though, there are also some pretty big differences for sure. And, yes, the Stealths outstrip the Atriums when paired with a good setup by quite a bit, but the Atriums remain one of my favorite pairs of headphones.


----------



## Gavin C4

With the punch and slam of the OOR, I really look forward to the pairing with the new 2022 Utopia. It will have all the bass punch and slam and dynamics that one would desire.


----------



## krude

Gavin C4 said:


> With the punch and slam of the OOR, I really look forward to the pairing with the new 2022 Utopia. It will have all the bass punch and slam and dynamics that one would desire.


Did you try Utopia from good tubes? Worth it


----------



## Andrewteee

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I think most people that dog the Stealths have never heard them through a proper dedicated setup. I think they may be the most picky headphones when it comes to source/chain that I have ever come across.  The Atriums in the other hand, sound good through just about any good setup, IMO. But, you're definitely right. If people represented the properties/sound of the Atriums and the Stealths in a Venn diagram, most of them would be surprised at how much overlap there is.
> 
> Don't get me wrong though, there are also some pretty big differences for sure. And, yes, the Stealths outstrip the Atriums when paired with a good setup by quite a bit, but the Atriums remain one of my favorite pairs of headphones.


The Stealth and Oor/Hypsos are good together?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Andrewteee said:


> The Stealth and Oor/Hypsos are good together?



Absolutely! After auditioning quite a few amps I chose the Oor/Hypsos setup to power mine. Now I'm trying out DACs. For me it came down to the GS-X mini and the Oor/Hypsos stack. The Oor just had an added level of dynamics and control that edged out the GS-X which was also very good with the Stealths.


----------



## TheR0v3r (Sep 10, 2022)

This is going to be a post high on opinion but low on facts. I blame it on my lack of technical expertise .

My two main headphones are the ZMF VO and Audeze LCD-4. The Ferrum stack is nothing short of brilliant with the Audezes. The combo has that certain magic that is hard to explain but you know it when you hear it.

Unfortunately not with the ZMF’s. The combo is very good, but magical it ain’t! The contrasting experiences when switching headphones started to be annoying. And in my mind I began dreaming about a tube amp to ”complete” my setup (who am I kidding!). In this case it’s actually quite a bit disappointing because I gave up on a good tube amp to purchase my current setup…

Anyway, this has been a week of experimentation to see what can be done to improve things. Every night I’ve put aside a hour before going to bed to this project of utmost importance. First of all I decided on two reference tracks: ”Code Cool” by Patricia Barber and ”Paralyze” by Nilufer Yanya. Then came the pad rolling and checking eq settings to get the FR as close to the Audeze’s as possible. (Everytime I’m thrilled by each and every pad I switch to only to end up where I started, with the Verité pads .)

Comparing against the Audezes I noticed that I prefer using XLR with the ZMF’s versus RCA with the Audeze’s. That improved the sound, the soundstage grew wider. The ZMF’s lack the depth of the Audeze’s soundstage (which is even more pronounced with RCA). Still nowhere close to magical. What to do?

For the first time I then switched my attention to the Hypsos. I’ve only experimented with gain on the OOR while changing output voltage on the Hypsos. I like my volume at around 12 o’clock when tweaking so I set gain at low and decided to change output voltage back to the default 24 volts (previously 22.1V and medium). I then spent Thursday evening with the technical whitepapper for Hypsos. For the first time I read it front to back. Again, I don’t have the technical expertise to understand even half of it but two things caught my attention: ”*4T Sensing*” and ”*Spread Spectrum*”.  Please don’t ask what they do, I urge you to read the whitepapper because it’s very good. Someone put in alot of effort in it and did an excellent job 

Today I changed the default settings and turned both off. And I can’t believe the improvement I’m hearing ! What the #€%& just happened?! I love ”Code Cool” and know that song by heart. For the first time I could actually hear the nuances of the piano chords in the intro when I turned off ”4T Sensing” and ”Spread Spectrum”. I urge you to experiment with these settings and I’m very much looking forward to hearing your opinion.

Now back to the music, ”I was made for loving you” with Maria Mena has never sounded better on the ZMF’s!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

TheR0v3r said:


> This is going to be a post high on opinion but low on facts. I blame it on my lack of technical expertise .
> 
> My two main headphones are the ZMF VO and Audeze LCD-4. The Ferrum stack is nothing short of brilliant with the Audezes. The combo has that certain magic that is hard to explain but you know it when you hear it.
> 
> ...



Woah! What a journey! You had me invested in the outcome on that one so I'm glad you got it sorted out. Are you still using your LCD-4s with the Sensing and Spread options turned on or have you not experimented with that yet?

As for the special synergy between the Audezes and the Oor stack, I believe I am hearing a version of that with my DCA Stealths. When plugged into my Oor setup they have something extra special (that's my highly technical terminology lol) going on. As I said in another post, they sounded great with the GS-X mini, but whatever the Oor/Hypsos setup does for them is something I didn't hear on any of the other amps I tried when searching for the best pairing.

Cheers to problem solving and audio chain synergy! Congratulations on your newly awesome solution.


----------



## TheR0v3r

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Woah! What a journey! You had me invested in the outcome on that one so I'm glad you got it sorted out. Are you still using your LCD-4s with the Sensing and Spread options turned on or have you not experimented with that yet?
> 
> As for the special synergy between the Audezes and the Oor stack, I believe I am hearing a version of that with my DCA Stealths. When plugged into my Oor setup they have something extra special (that's my highly technical terminology lol) going on. As I said in another post, they sounded great with the GS-X mini, but whatever the Oor/Hypsos setup does for them is something I didn't hear on any of the other amps I tried when searching for the best pairing.
> 
> Cheers to problem solving and audio chain synergy! Congratulations on your newly awesome solution.


Thanks and appreciate you taking the time to read the whole thing .

I’m just so thrilled about the sound and I’m revelling in Lianne La Havas singing ”Say a little prayer (live)” as I write this. What a voice! Next up ”Tilted” by Christine and the Queens 

The coming days I’ll just enjoy the ZMF’s. Then I’ll experiment with the same settings with the Audeze’s. I’ll keep you posted.


----------



## Andrewteee

TheR0v3r said:


> This is going to be a post high on opinion but low on facts. I blame it on my lack of technical expertise .
> 
> My two main headphones are the ZMF VO and Audeze LCD-4. The Ferrum stack is nothing short of brilliant with the Audezes. The combo has that certain magic that is hard to explain but you know it when you hear it.
> 
> ...


Really appreciate this! Love the trouble shooting persistence. I’m going to read that white paper (I’m not technical either). 

I’ve been considering the Ferrum pair and this is helpful. I have the DCA Stealth and Meze Elite on hand and ZMF Atrium on the way. Currently used with a new Schiit Lyr.


----------



## TheR0v3r (Sep 10, 2022)

Andrewteee said:


> Really appreciate this! Love the trouble shooting persistence. I’m going to read that white paper (I’m not technical either).
> 
> I’ve been considering the Ferrum pair and this is helpful. I have the DCA Stealth and Meze Elite on hand and ZMF Atrium on the way. Currently used with a new Schiit Lyr.


Thank you so much, appreciate it.

What a fantastic set of cans, congrats 

Edit: That amp looks really interesting. Enjoy.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

TheR0v3r said:


> Thanks and appreciate you taking the time to read the whole thing .
> 
> I’m just so thrilled about the sound and I’m revelling in Lianne La Havas singing ”Say a little prayer (live)” as I write this. What a voice! Next up ”Tilted” by Christine and the Queens
> 
> The coming days I’ll just enjoy the ZMF’s. Then I’ll experiment with the same settings with the Audeze’s. I’ll keep you posted.



Thanks! I would really be interested to hear what settings you end up on for the LCD-4s so I can compare to what I use for my Stealths. I'll look forward to reading you post.

In the meantime, enjoy the ZMFs!


----------



## Somatic

TheR0v3r said:


> This is going to be a post high on opinion but low on facts. I blame it on my lack of technical expertise .
> 
> My two main headphones are the ZMF VO and Audeze LCD-4. The Ferrum stack is nothing short of brilliant with the Audezes. The combo has that certain magic that is hard to explain but you know it when you hear it.
> 
> ...


Read the white paper again. I even asked support about these 2 modes. Seems like it would benefit the sound but might as well try and see what I can hear.


----------



## TheR0v3r

Somatic said:


> Read the white paper again. I even asked support about these 2 modes. Seems like it would benefit the sound but might as well try and see what I can hear.


Looking forward to hearing your thoughts. 

In the intro to ”Code Cool” turning ”Spread Spectrum” off improved the transient response, clearly heard when the piano is played. Turning ”4T Sensing” off improved the decay of the bass. Both together improved the dynamics. 

I’m trying to form som kind of hypothesis about what is actually happening, so I’m very interesed in hearing any replies from the support.


----------



## krude (Sep 10, 2022)

TheR0v3r said:


> This is going to be a post high on opinion but low on facts. I blame it on my lack of technical expertise .
> 
> My two main headphones are the ZMF VO and Audeze LCD-4. The Ferrum stack is nothing short of brilliant with the Audezes. The combo has that certain magic that is hard to explain but you know it when you hear it.
> 
> ...


Very interesting indeed, just tested on Susvara and Utopia ... for me it sounds like the amp becomes sharper. Treble is less controlled and it looses it's smoothness and refinement, however this might be exactly what you're looking for in your system. For me one of the biggest game changers was using different levels of power filtration for my dac and amps. This can affect the sound characteristics tremendously even with pieces like May and the Ferrum stack.

I've heard Feliks OTLs are one of the best pairings for VCs, but heaven't heard either so can't comment. I know I like my Utopia and HD800 best from my HA6a tho for what it's worth 🤷‍♂️


----------



## TheR0v3r

krude said:


> Very interesting indeed, just tested on Susvara and Utopia ... for me it sounds like the amp becomes sharper. Treble is less controlled and it looses it's smoothness and refinement, however this might be exactly what you're looking for in your system. For me one of the biggest game changers was using different levels of power filtration for my dac and amps. This can affect the sound characteristics tremendously even with pieces like May and the Ferrum stack.
> 
> I've heard Feliks OTLs are one of the best pairings for VCs, but heaven't heard either so can't comment. I know I like my Utopia and HD800 best from my HA6a tho for what it's worth 🤷‍♂️


Hm, that’s odd. That’s actually the exakt opposite of what I’m experiencing. Wonder what is going on?

Is there any chance you can try it with the same song I’m using as reference? That would take at least the song out of the equation.


----------



## TheR0v3r

krude said:


> I've heard Feliks OTLs are one of the best pairings for VCs, but heaven't heard either so can't comment. I know I like my Utopia and HD800 best from my HA6a tho for what it's worth 🤷‍♂️


I’ve actually used Feliks OTLs with the VO. One of the (too) many amps that I’ve had…


----------



## krude (Sep 10, 2022)

TheR0v3r said:


> Hm, that’s odd. That’s actually the exakt opposite of what I’m experiencing. Wonder what is going on?
> 
> Is there any chance you can try it with the same song I’m using as reference? That would take at least the song out of the equation.


Tried Code Cool around 0:40 to 1:20 ... wow the sss region is hot in this one. I see what you mean tho, the distortion is helping the track in a way that it's covering some of the sharpness, at least that's how it sounds for me. Again I'm not an expert (actually I'm an audio engineer, but not actively working lol), that's how it sounds for me. So depends on the source material the extra distortion can help to make something sound better, but otherwise it will sharpen up well recorded highs. This is a lot more apparent on planars I think as well ... so yeah totally get what you're saying.

You can try a completely different test track, that generally has very well produced 20 / 20, I actually use it for sub and bass proper tests : Culture Shock - Bunker. Top end should be smooth and non offensive (again I don't know how it will sound on VCs and your stack) with those 2 options on, turn them off and in a few sec of playback the hats will become jagged and unrefined especially visible in the section 1:20 - 2:00, the top layers of percussions will loose separation and fold into a blob, turn them on again and it will go back to smooth and separated sound in another few sec.

I guess it heavily depends on the source material, and I also enjoyed Code Cool a lot more with those options off : )

Thank you for motivating me to experiment with this!


----------



## TheR0v3r

krude said:


> Tried Code Cool around 0:40 to 1:20 ... wow the sss region is hot in this one. I see what you mean tho, the distortion is helping the track in a way that it's covering some of the sharpness, at least that's how it sounds for me. Again I'm not an expert (actually I'm an audio engineer, but not actively working lol), that's how it sounds for me. So depends on the source material the extra distortion can help to make something sound better, but otherwise it will sharpen up well recorded highs. This is a lot more apparent on planars I think as well ... so yeah totally get what you're saying.
> 
> You can try a completely different test track, that generally has very well produced 20 / 20, I actually use it for sub and bass proper tests : Culture Shock - Bunker. Top end should be smooth and non offensive (again I don't know how it will sound on VCs and your stack) with those 2 options on, turn them off and in a few sec of playback the hats will become jagged and unrefined especially visible in the section 1:20 - 2:00, the top layers of percussions will loose separation and fold into a blob, turn them on again and it will go back to smooth and separated sound in another few sec.
> 
> ...


Brilliant, thank you so much   . I didn’t consider that it could track specific, and that added distortion could actually be helping the track.

That is an excellent test track. I’m looking forward to trying in out with the Audeze’s.


----------



## Betzy

bhdang said:


> You have to go into firmware that is under Information tab inside the menu settings, and select USB Update Mode to make the device scannable.


Got it! Thank you so much! 😬


----------



## Allan5512

Has anyone paired the DCA Stealth with the Ferrum stack? Are they good with each other?


----------



## Somatic

Anyone else like using 22V. I seem to prefer lower voltage than higher voltage. Even with the Susvara and Solitaire P. Seems like it adds some very slight rounding of the notes, and make things a tad darker. I notice vocals are more engaging/forward in lower voltages to my ears. Thoughts?

According to the white paper:
"raising the voltage on the input of the switching power supply lowers down the current, which is drawn by it, so modulated current which is drawn is smaller in the amplitude, so this can lower down the noise on the supply line. Raising the voltage on the input of the linear regulator gives it more voltage reserve and many of those linear regulators better reject the noise from the input in such circumstances."

So this is a hybrid PSU using switch mode and linear? So not sure what to ascertain from the white paper info above.


----------



## krude

Somatic said:


> Anyone else like using 22V. I seem to prefer lower voltage than higher voltage. Even with the Susvara and Solitaire P. Seems like it adds some very slight rounding of the notes, and make things a tad darker. I notice vocals are more engaging/forward in lower voltages to my ears. Thoughts?
> 
> According to the white paper:
> "raising the voltage on the input of the switching power supply lowers down the current, which is drawn by it, so modulated current which is drawn is smaller in the amplitude, so this can lower down the noise on the supply line. Raising the voltage on the input of the linear regulator gives it more voltage reserve and many of those linear regulators better reject the noise from the input in such circumstances."
> ...


I also like it in 22v with Susvara. Wave Theory dropped a review where he describes his perception of 22v vs 24v vs 26v.


----------



## Somatic

krude said:


> I also like it in 22v with Susvara. Wave Theory dropped a review where he describes his perception of 22v vs 24v vs 26v.


Do you mind sending me the review? I did a quick Google search and didn't find it. Thanks.


----------



## Delta9K (Sep 13, 2022)

Somatic said:


> Do you mind sending me the review? I did a quick Google search and didn't find it. Thanks.


Here's a link to the review of the Ferrum stack by @WaveTheory


----------



## Somatic

Delta9K said:


> Here's a link to the review of the Ferrum stack by @WaveTheory


Sorry, I checked his profile and saw all his reviews. Didn't see one for the Ferrum stack. Am I missing something? Thanks.


----------



## Delta9K

Somatic said:


> Sorry, I checked his profile and saw all his reviews. Didn't see one for the Ferrum stack. Am I missing something? Thanks.


My bad I forgot the link - Fixed it.


----------



## Somatic

Thanks for sending me the link. I agree with @WaveTheory assessment off the sound changes with voltage changes. The only thing I did not hear was "taming midrange peaks". Seems like he hears that there is less midrange energy with lower voltage. I think I hear more midrange energy and more wet vocals.

I'm going to try and find my sweet spot between 22V - 24V. Thanks.


----------



## Delta9K (Sep 13, 2022)

Somatic said:


> Seems like he hears that there is less midrange energy with lower voltage. I think I hear more midrange energy and more wet vocals.


I myself also prefer the lower voltage 22-22.1v (with the Susvara), but I think what is heard with the voltage adjustments is also and/or still influenced by source and DAC synergy and that ultimately each listener will have to find their own sweet spot, just as you eluded to.


----------



## Somatic

Delta9K said:


> I myself also prefer the lower voltage 22-22.1v (with the Susvara), but I think what is heard with the voltage adjustments is also and/or still influenced by source and DAC synergy and that ultimately the listener will have to find their own sweet spot, just as you eluded to.


Yes, I can see the DAC being an integral part of how the voltage changes the sound. The Dave is more incisive so that may be the main reason I like lower voltages? Rounded it up a bit and add more weight to notes?


----------



## ozziegurkan

Has anyone tried the Bypass switch? Nothing is changing for me. I switch back and forth and the preamp is still engaged. I want to try and remote control the volume with my Soloist GT, but the bypass switch not working is forcing me to put the volume all the way up with the gain knob set at Zero. Is this a manufacturing defect?


----------



## Andrewteee

I received my Oor+Hypsos yesterday and so far it's off to a great start! Planning to experiment with voltage.


----------



## krude

ozziegurkan said:


> Has anyone tried the Bypass switch? Nothing is changing for me. I switch back and forth and the preamp is still engaged. I want to try and remote control the volume with my Soloist GT, but the bypass switch not working is forcing me to put the volume all the way up with the gain knob set at Zero. Is this a manufacturing defect?


Yeah it should disengage the whole volume / gain circuit ... try asking Ferrum for their oppinion maybe. If it's a defect I'm sure they'll fix it.


----------



## ozziegurkan

krude said:


> Yeah it should disengage the whole volume / gain circuit ... try asking Ferrum for their oppinion maybe. If it's a defect I'm sure they'll fix it.


They just came back to me saying that it wasn't normal. I will keep you all posted to see what happens next.


----------



## ozziegurkan

ozziegurkan said:


> They just came back to me saying that it wasn't normal. I will keep you all posted to see what happens next.


Looks like I have to reach out to Headphones.com. Ferrum won't do anything for it.


----------



## DMITRIY R

Has anyone used Ferrum OOR in conjunction with Burson Audio 5A Super Charger? As far as I understand, they are compatible.


----------



## plumpudding2

Allan5512 said:


> Has anyone paired the DCA Stealth with the Ferrum stack? Are they good with each other?


I run my DCA Stealth off Ferrum, the extreme punchiness of the Ferrum stack is a great pairing with the Stealths dynamic politeness imo!


----------



## Andrewteee

I have the Ferrum Oor + Hypsos and pair it with the Stealth and the new Expanse. Both are fantastic with the Ferrum! 

It also reminds how well the DCA headphones respond to power.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Allan5512 said:


> Has anyone paired the DCA Stealth with the Ferrum stack? Are they good with each other?



If you look a couple pages back I think I posted something here about why I decided to run my Stealths off the Oor/Hypsos instead of the GS-X Mini and other amps that a tried. It's a fantastic combination!


----------



## adrianm

hypnos1 said:


> Given @krude 's convincing (and correct!) recent summation of the Ferrums' qualities, and my latest Verdi revelation, I retract any mention whatsoever of the Zahl HM1 et al! - no need to splash our hard-earned notes on anything else IMHO... there must surely  be very few systems where this combo can't punch _way_ beyond its weight lol.


Couldn't resist and ordered an HM1  It just made more sense than the Lina.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Andrewteee said:


> I have the Ferrum Oor + Hypsos and pair it with the Stealth and the new Expanse. Both are fantastic with the Ferrum!
> 
> It also reminds how well the DCA headphones respond to power.



I will be demoing the Expanse at CanJam with the idea that I'd like to buy a pair if they perform similarly to the Stealths and I enjoy their tuning so it's good to hear that they pair well with the Ferrum stack. What DAC(s) do you use in your DCA + Oor/Hypsos audio chain?


----------



## Andrewteee

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I will be demoing the Expanse at CanJam with the idea that I'd like to buy a pair if they perform similarly to the Stealths and I enjoy their tuning so it's good to hear that they pair well with the Ferrum stack. What DAC(s) do you use in your DCA + Oor/Hypsos audio chain?


I have an older Resolution Audio Cantata Music Center 3.0 and a dCS Bartok. I use Roon.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Andrewteee said:


> I have an older Resolution Audio Cantata Music Center 3.0 and a dCS Bartok. I use Roon.



Thanks for the quick response. I have a couple options that I really like, but I'm still demoing DACs to find the absolute best match. Hence, why I asked you and have been asking others what they're using. Thankfully it seems like quite a few Stealth owners have settled on the Ferrum rig to power their headphones so I've been able to collect a number of recommendations.


----------



## Andrewteee

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Thanks for the quick response. I have a couple options that I really like, but I'm still demoing DACs to find the absolute best match. Hence, why I asked you and have been asking others what they're using. Thankfully it seems like quite a few Stealth owners have settled on the Ferrum rig to power their headphones so I've been able to collect a number of recommendations.


The Cantata is more than a decade old and I still love it! V3 is an R2R DAC fwiw. The Holo Audio DAC is one I’d look at today.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Andrewteee said:


> The Cantata is more than a decade old and I still love it! V3 is an R2R DAC fwiw. The Holo Audio DAC is one I’d look at today.



Yeah, I will be checkin out the Holo May this weekend. I have a friend who's heading out of town and is being nice enough to let me have all weekend with his.


----------



## Somatic

Anyone using a tube pre with the Ferrum stack?


----------



## TheFrator

Worth mentioning that I still don't have a hypsos with my unit, but there's just something non-fatiguing about what the Oor does. I listened to my LCD-5s off the Mojo 2 for 15 mins and noticed my ears getting tingly and fatigued at a volume less than what I was running my 5's off from a Bifrost 2 -> Oor chain. I was listening to music off the Oor for 2 hours before switching to the Mojo 2 and the fatigue was noticable after a few moments. 

I was really close to selling and committed to doing so to fund a stereo build, but I'm likely going to keep it. I want to save money but at the same time I can't step down into an unknown amp when the Oor is known, smooth, and non-fatiguing listen.


----------



## TheR0v3r

Somatic said:


> Anyone using a tube pre with the Ferrum stack?


For a short while I used a Primaluna preamp with the Ferrum stack. Good! In the end I decided against the added complexity and cost, instead I put the money in improving other parts of my system.

P.S. It was a post @Gavin C4 wrote that made me rethink my entire setup,  it shifted my thinking. Very grateful.


----------



## TheR0v3r

TheFrator said:


> Worth mentioning that I still don't have a hypsos with my unit, but there's just something non-fatiguing about what the Oor does. I listened to my LCD-5s off the Mojo 2 for 15 mins and noticed my ears getting tingly and fatigued at a volume less than what I was running my 5's off from a Bifrost 2 -> Oor chain. I was listening to music off the Oor for 2 hours before switching to the Mojo 2 and the fatigue was noticable after a few moments.
> 
> I was really close to selling and committed to doing so to fund a stereo build, but I'm likely going to keep it. I want to save money but at the same time I can't step down into an unknown amp when the Oor is known, smooth, and non-fatiguing listen.


Those LCD-5s are fantastic  !

The Hypsos takes the Oor from being excellent at €2000 to being brilliant at €3000. And with the LCD-5s I’m certain that you can hear the difference.


----------



## hypnos1 (Sep 17, 2022)

adrianm said:


> Couldn't resist and ordered an HM1  It just made more sense than the Lina.


PHEW! ade...and WELL DONE!!  But just don't send me the £7k bill lol! 

You must, of course, give us the low down on how it fares vs the Ferrum combo (taking into account the price difference of course)..._if you dare!! _The same holds true for the latest Audio-gds and Burson Soloist 3x *GT* from any owners_ - _purely out of interest, mind you_..._I'd hate to be tempting others into pecuniary/domestic disaster etc. etc.!! But objective (if possible?)_, reliable_ comparisons are always interesting and welcome... in _my _book at least!

Regardless, I really hope you enjoy your latest dive into the rabbit holes we all love to hate lol 

ps. I put the blame on a well-heeled friend of a friend who was blown away by the Zahl, but who will become enemy #1 to my better half if it turns out to be _that_ much better than the Ferrums that I love to death and succumb to temptation in my (increasingly) old age!! ... ...CHEERS


----------



## adrianm

hypnos1 said:


> PHEW! ade...and WELL DONE!!  But just don't send me the £7k bill lol!
> 
> You must, of course, give us the low down on how it fares vs the Ferrum combo (taking into account the price difference of course)..._if you dare!! _The same holds true for the latest Audio-gds and Burson Soloist 3x *GT* from any owners_ - _purely out of interest, mind you_..._I'd hate to be tempting others into pecuniary/domestic disaster etc. etc.!! But objective (if possible?)_, reliable_ comparisons are always interesting and welcome... in _my _book at least!
> 
> ...


FWIW I preferred the Oor to the Burson, it was borderline unusable with XLR in(6v) from Dave with the Elites. Low gain 6/100 volume was too loud. It also had a noisier background. This is also my small gripe with the Oor...I love it, but I feel Hypsos could be better. My mains filter (Isotek Aquarius High current socket) slightly blunts dynamics. Without it however the background is really noisy,  can't stand it. And with the Elites, going from Low gain to Medium, and then High, there is a very noticeable increase in background noise, even with the filter. This might not be the case in the new place, but to me it shows there is room for improvement.
    The main reason though was the Hm1's features.


----------



## Somatic

When I first listened to the Ferrum stack it seemed a little too warm. Now I wanted to be warmer. Is this a gateway drug into tubes?! What did you guys do to me?! Hehe


----------



## Somatic

Feel the higher you go up in gain. It gets slightly V shaped. High gain seems to give me increased bass and treble vs medium for most of my cans.


----------



## adrianm

Somatic said:


> Feel the higher you go up in gain. It gets slightly V shaped. High gain seems to give me increased bass and treble vs medium for most of my cans.


It's hard to tell without precise volume matching , but that is also my impression. BTW since my Lavri grand XLR arrived, the Elite is a different headphone compared to the SE out. It really is a remarkable difference.


----------



## Andrewteee

I have become smitten with the Oor+Hypsos. Eminently listenable for extended periods of time with all kinds of music. That said, a pair of DCA Expanse headphones arrived at the same time (my accountant put me in the penalty box) and they are contributing to this sentiment. The Oor effortlessly powers the Expanse at all volume levels. Music emanates from a vacuum, the subtlest details emerge from darkness. 

The outcomes is that I simply want to listen to music; not analyze or compare, just listen and explore my catalog. 

Is it worth experimenting with voltages? I have not done that yet.


----------



## Somatic

I tend to like lower voltages but it’s very subtle and a personal thing.


----------



## hypnos1

adrianm said:


> FWIW I preferred the Oor to the Burson, it was borderline unusable with XLR in(6v) from Dave with the Elites. Low gain 6/100 volume was too loud. It also had a noisier background. This is also my small gripe with the Oor...I love it, but I feel Hypsos could be better. My mains filter (Isotek Aquarius High current socket) slightly blunts dynamics. Without it however the background is really noisy,  can't stand it. And with the Elites, going from Low gain to Medium, and then High, there is a very noticeable increase in background noise, even with the filter. This might not be the case in the new place, but to me it shows there is room for improvement.
> The main reason though was the Hm1's features.


Noisy background?...haven't heard that from most other Ferrum users. I myself have an AirlinkTransformers ASF3000 Balanced Mains Conditioner (with Avery Magnetics Advanced Filter System) and background is deathly silent - not only re obvious noise but evidently the less obvious kind... as clarity, micro/macro detail, stage and dynamics are quite phenomenal. Hopefully things will indeed improve for you in a different location.

And yes, XLR hp out certainly helped up my Empyrean's performance, also justifying my workup with the replacement cable (including UP-OCC silver etc wire to each of the 4 per channel connections).

And yes again, the Zahl does indeed have some very impressive features...I'm turning green already lol!


----------



## TheFrator

Andrewteee said:


> I have become smitten with the Oor+Hypsos. Eminently listenable for extended periods of time with all kinds of music. That said, a pair of DCA Expanse headphones arrived at the same time (my accountant put me in the penalty box) and they are contributing to this sentiment. The Oor effortlessly powers the Expanse at all volume levels. Music emanates from a vacuum, the subtlest details emerge from darkness.
> 
> The outcomes is that I simply want to listen to music; not analyze or compare, just listen and explore my catalog.
> 
> Is it worth experimenting with voltages? I have not done that yet.


Glad you have a setup that brings a smile to you and just lets you enjoy the tunes!


----------



## jonathan c

Andrewteee said:


> a) The outcome is that I simply want to listen to music; not analyze or compare, just listen and explore my catalog.
> 
> b) Is it worth experimenting with voltages? I have not done that yet.


How do you get from a) to b)? Why? 🤔


----------



## Andrewteee

jonathan c said:


> How do you get from a) to b)? Why? 🤔


lol... soon, I'll get back to experimentation... it always happens, right?


----------



## krude

hypnos1 said:


> Noisy background?...haven't heard that from most other Ferrum users. I myself have an AirlinkTransformers ASF3000 Balanced Mains Conditioner (with Avery Magnetics Advanced Filter System) and background is deathly silent - not only re obvious noise but evidently the less obvious kind... as clarity, micro/macro detail, stage and dynamics are quite phenomenal. Hopefully things will indeed improve for you in a different location.
> 
> And yes, XLR hp out certainly helped up my Empyrean's performance, also justifying my workup with the replacement cable (including UP-OCC silver etc wire to each of the 4 per channel connections).
> 
> And yes again, the Zahl does indeed have some very impressive features...I'm turning green already lol!


Indeed I tried the Ferrum stack with sensitive IEMs on all gains and all volumes and heard nothing (obv would blow them up actually playing music on high gain 🤠)


----------



## adrianm

krude said:


> Indeed I tried the Ferrum stack with sensitive IEMs on all gains and all volumes and heard nothing (obv would blow them up actually playing music on high gain 🤠)


Well I don't mean the kind of noise you can hear, mains noise you can more... "feel". It's easy to notice the absence of it. "Black background", notes coming out of nowhere, better depth, etc.


----------



## krude

adrianm said:


> Well I don't mean the kind of noise you can hear, mains noise you can more... "feel". It's easy to notice the absence of it. "Black background", notes coming out of nowhere, better depth, etc.


Hmm if anything for me Ferrum on medium gain sometimes has too little distortion, its very smooth and quiet and detailed etc. I started using high gain just to increase the distortion "kick" a bit, but we all hear differently. It's definitely the lowest distortion and noise amp I've heard, but you can probably do even better 🤔


----------



## adrianm

krude said:


> Hmm if anything for me Ferrum on medium gain sometimes has too little distortion, its very smooth and quiet and detailed etc. I started using high gain just to increase the distortion "kick" a bit, but we all hear differently. It's definitely the lowest distortion and noise amp I've heard, but you can probably do even better 🤔


the HPA4 is lower distortion. And horrible, though I'm sure not because of it. The Zaehl actually has 0.0001% more distortion than the Oor. It's nowhere near the only relevant metric though. I do find that high gain does distort ,as does medium for the Elites imo. The image gets stretched a bit


----------



## krude (Sep 17, 2022)

adrianm said:


> the HPA4 is lower distortion. And horrible, though I'm sure not because of it. The Zaehl actually has 0.0001% more distortion than the Oor. It's nowhere near the only relevant metric though. I do find that high gain does distort ,as does medium for the Elites imo. The image gets stretched a bit


I've only heard HPA4 in a shop setting 2h session and found it bland and under powered for Susvara and TC, but haven't heard it in my system so can't pass any serious judgement. Idk for me the only downside Oor has is that images are not the biggest I've heard, but everything else is pretty much perfect 🤷‍♂️ especially imaging, depth and midrange. Maybe it somehow doesn't gel with Elites as well as it does with Sus and TC.


----------



## Somatic

krude said:


> I've only heard HP4 in a shop setting 2h session and found it bland and under powered for Susvara and TC, but haven't heard it in my system so can't pass any serious judgement. Idk for me the only downside Oor has is that images are not the biggest I've heard, but everything else is pretty much perfect 🤷‍♂️ especially imaging, depth and midrange. Maybe it somehow doesn't gel with Elites as well as it does with Sus and TC.


I think soundstage width is the main niggle. Everything else sounds good to me. AHB2 had very little distortion. I also prefer the high gain at times for more “kick”


----------



## adrianm

krude said:


> I've only heard HP4 in a shop setting 2h session and found it bland and under powered for Susvara and TC, but haven't heard it in my system so can't pass any serious judgement. Idk for me the only downside Oor has is that images are not the biggest I've heard, but everything else is pretty much perfect 🤷‍♂️ especially imaging, depth and midrange. Maybe it somehow doesn't gel with Elites as well as it does with Sus and TC.


FWIW I'm  feeding it a crossfeed signal from Dave that reduces width but increases depth pretty noticeably. Still, even with it off, it's very clear that increasing gain is a huge zoom in on the stage in all dimensions, even height. But everything becomes very distorted. I chalk it up the Elites being very sensitive, yet still greatly benefit from Balanced out power. This is why Burson wasn't a good fit.


----------



## krude (Sep 17, 2022)

Somatic said:


> I think soundstage width is the main niggle. Everything else sounds good to me. AHB2 had very little distortion. I also prefer the high gain at times for more “kick”


Big imaging is a pro and a con, also depnds a lot on the headphones. TC and Sus have big stages anyway, so its not a huge drawback for the other benefits it has. Also for many genres it's a more natural sound. But for epic soundtracks and narrow sets that benefit from big staging amps I can see this being a serious con. I index hard for stage size buying headphones so all my sets apart from Utopia have big stages anyway. 

That being said Utopia doesn't sound narrow from Oor as well. It can sound a bit wider from airy tubes, but Oor gives it a believable and realistic stage.

Burson for me stretched the images a lot. Height, width and depth was all over the place. It could certainly sound grand and bombastic which had the wow factor for certain tracks, but even on lowest gain it had more distortion than Oor on high gain for me.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Well folks, I demoed the TT2 and the MScaler today after having to reschedule my appointment from earlier in the week. The shop owner was very accomodating and allowed me to bring the Oor/Hypsos stack, my interconnects, and my Stealths so that I could insert the TT2 into my rig. Of course it sounded quite nice at the TT2 is a capable DAC, but ultimately I didn't like it as much as I have liked a couple other DACs I have used lead by the Gustard X26 Pro which is my current favorite.

The M Scaler was setup with in a demo room in the shop as I more or less just wanted to see what kind of improvement it offered and whether I felt it justified the price tag. When spinning CDs through the M Scaler rig the owner had setup I did notice a difference, but I guess my sonic palette isn't refined enough because I found the differences to be VERY slight and to not always be necessarily an improvement. Thankfully my mediocre palette has saved me quite a bit a money in this case.

On my way home I picked up a friend's Holo May DAC to take home with me for a few days to demo against the Gustard X26 and RME ADI-2 DAC (AKM Version) which are my two favorite DAC options thus far to match with the Ferrum stack and my Stealths. I have been looking forward to giving this DAC a good workout with other headphones as well so this promises to be a fun weekend!

Thanks to those of you that sent me recommendations that have helped me thus far. Obviously, I'm always open to others so if anyone has any DAC options you think are a must try for me, let me know!


----------



## lllkkkoo

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Well folks, I demoed the TT2 and the MScaler today after having to reschedule my appointment from earlier in the week. The shop owner was very accomodating and allowed me to bring the Oor/Hypsos stack, my interconnects, and my Stealths so that I could insert the TT2 into my rig. Of course it sounded quite nice at the TT2 is a capable DAC, but ultimately I didn't like it as much as I have liked a couple other DACs I have used lead by the Gustard X26 Pro which is my current favorite.
> 
> The M Scaler was setup with in a demo room in the shop as I more or less just wanted to see what kind of improvement it offered and whether I felt it justified the price tag. When spinning CDs through the M Scaler rig the owner had setup I did notice a difference, but I guess my sonic palette isn't refined enough because I found the differences to be VERY slight and to not always be necessarily an improvement. Thankfully my mediocre palette has saved me quite a bit a money in this case.
> 
> ...


Excited to hear more! I am also considering going the holo audio route mainly for the aesthetic


----------



## JAnonymous5150

lllkkkoo said:


> Excited to hear more! I am also considering going the holo audio route mainly for the aesthetic



I will post something with impressions after I have had more time. Making no comments on how it compares to the others yet, I'm listening to the Holo May right now and it's easy to see why owners praise it so much.

Anyways, stay tuned for a post in a day or two depending on just how much listening I end up doing and when.


----------



## Somatic

TheR0v3r said:


> For a short while I used a Primaluna preamp with the Ferrum stack. Good! In the end I decided against the added complexity and cost, instead I put the money in improving other parts of my system.
> 
> P.S. It was a post @Gavin C4 wrote that made me rethink my entire setup,  it shifted my thinking. Very grateful.


Wondering if you can guide me to that post from Gavin? I was also thinking of a Primaluna preamp as well ...


----------



## TheR0v3r

Somatic said:


> Wondering if you can guide me to that post from Gavin? I was also thinking of a Primaluna preamp as well ...


Of course, it’s this post.

Fyi, I had the Evo 400.


----------



## Somatic

TheR0v3r said:


> Of course, it’s this post.
> 
> Fyi, I had the Evo 400.


I see. So what did you end up getting to work on your source chain instead?


----------



## TheR0v3r

Somatic said:


> I see. So what did you end up getting to work on your source chain instead?


Let’s see. 

The setup I had was Chord Hugo 2 -> Chord MScaler -> Primaluna EVO400 -> Burson 3xp

At the time I was looking at changing dac to either a new Hugo TT2 or used Dave to replace the Hugo 2. To make a long story short, I ended up with the Merason DAC 1 (which is amazing!) instead of Chord mTT2. I then got the opportunity to try the Ferrum stack to use instead of the Burson, but it was soo good that it replaced both the Primaluna and Burson. 

After that I switched focus to the other parts of my system.


----------



## Somatic

TheR0v3r said:


> Let’s see.
> 
> The setup I had was Chord Hugo 2 -> Chord MScaler -> Primaluna EVO400 -> Burson 3xp
> 
> ...


Hmmm, I see. But now with your new setup. Can you still add a tube pre? You think the Primaluna would go well with your current system chain?


----------



## TheR0v3r

Somatic said:


> Hmmm, I see. But now with your new setup. Can you still add a tube pre? You think the Primaluna would go well with your current system chain?


Yes, I could technically still add a tube pre.  The EVO400 is an amazing preamp, one of the best I’ve heard period. 

Despite that I’d think long and hard before adding that amp to my system. Right now I’d rather add a tube headphone amp instead of a preamp. IMHO.


----------



## krude

TheR0v3r said:


> Yes, I could technically still add a tube pre.  The EVO400 is an amazing preamp, one of the best I’ve heard period.
> 
> Despite that I’d think long and hard before adding that amp to my system. Right now I’d rather add a tube headphone amp instead of a preamp. IMHO.


+1 to having a tube headphone amp alongside SS.


----------



## jlbrach

krude said:


> I've only heard HPA4 in a shop setting 2h session and found it bland and under powered for Susvara and TC, but haven't heard it in my system so can't pass any serious judgement. Idk for me the only downside Oor has is that images are not the biggest I've heard, but everything else is pretty much perfect 🤷‍♂️ especially imaging, depth and midrange. Maybe it somehow doesn't gel with Elites as well as it does with Sus and TC.


great amp but yes not up to the susvara or TC for best results


----------



## ozziegurkan

I wonder if the Holo Audio Bliss will be a serious challenger to the OOR.


----------



## Delta9K (Sep 23, 2022)

ozziegurkan said:


> I wonder if the Holo Audio Bliss will be a serious challenger to the OOR.


Well, it would need to launch first. Wasn't it supposed to be released in August? Haven't seen or heard much of anything about its status for sometime now. With that aside, I too would be curious to see how it performs if it does come to market, and at what price-point.


----------



## kumar402

Delta9K said:


> Well, it would need to launch first. Wasn't it supposed to be released in August? Haven't seen or heard much of anything about its status for sometime now. With that aside, I too would be curious to see how it performs if it does come to market, and at what price-point.


Well not easy these days to launch a new product  due to part shortage etc


----------



## DJJEZ

ozziegurkan said:


> I wonder if the Holo Audio Bliss will be a serious challenger to the OOR.


I'm 100% sure it will be


----------



## Somatic

Susvara still sounds a bit thin on the Ferrum stack. Sounds great but I don't know if there is a pairing that will add a lot of note weight to these cans. I just think this is how they sound. I'm fine with that. Looking to add a chunky lush can to the stable.


----------



## ozziegurkan

Somatic said:


> Susvara still sounds a bit thin on the Ferrum stack. Sounds great but I don't know if there is a pairing that will add a lot of note weight to these cans. I just think this is how they sound. I'm fine with that. Looking to add a chunky lush can to the stable.


Supposedly the Bliss will be 12 watts in 32 ohms. Maybe that’s what you are looking for.


----------



## adrianm

Somatic said:


> Susvara still sounds a bit thin on the Ferrum stack. Sounds great but I don't know if there is a pairing that will add a lot of note weight to these cans. I just think this is how they sound. I'm fine with that. Looking to add a chunky lush can to the stable.


There is, but the problem isn't with the Ferrum, It's with the Dave sadly. The Lina + Clock with the Oor makes everything sound fuller top to bottom. It's hard to explain how a fuller treble sounds lol.


----------



## Somatic

adrianm said:


> There is, but the problem isn't with the Ferrum, It's with the Dave sadly. The Lina + Clock with the Oor makes everything sound fuller top to bottom. It's hard to explain how a fuller treble sounds lol.


Hmm, I see.


----------



## kumar402

adrianm said:


> There is, but the problem isn't with the Ferrum, It's with the Dave sadly. The Lina + Clock with the Oor makes everything sound fuller top to bottom. It's hard to explain how a fuller treble sounds lol.


Totally agree DAC has biggest say on fullness of sound.


----------



## Somatic

kumar402 said:


> Totally agree DAC has biggest say on fullness of sound.


I see. But I don't think Susvara's are supposed to have heavy note weight. I think its inherent in its design. I have other headphones in my stack that sound thunderous and heavy handed. Solitaire P in my chain almost have too much bass. So much sub bass presence.


----------



## DJJEZ

Somatic said:


> Susvara still sounds a bit thin on the Ferrum stack. Sounds great but I don't know if there is a pairing that will add a lot of note weight to these cans. I just think this is how they sound. I'm fine with that. Looking to add a chunky lush can to the stable.


Need a amp or dac with better tonal density. The dave is quite thin sounding on susvara for me as well. A good tube amp will also help thicken up susvara as well.


----------



## TheFrator

Picked up a Hypsos today after running the Oor without it for 3 months on my LCD-5. The differences were subtle / non-existent at first as I was listening to _10000 Days _by Tool. With the main thing I picked up on was bass having more weight to it. I genuinely thought I was just imagining it. And FWIW I don't want to hear a difference because I rather save some money. But oh no, god forbid I maybe save some money in this hobby by not hearing a difference. 

_Spoonman_ by Soundgarden had somehow gotten queued up and the difference was instantaneous. The wall of sound the song begins with had more weight to the guitars and drum, sure. But more importantly, the background got blacker and instruments were more separated than I've ever heard in my life. Now if you're not familiar with 90s grunge- this was the peak of the loudness wars and Roon tells me the dynamic range of this album is 4 - which is amongst the lowest in my library. Is this background being blacker justifiable for a $1k price tag of the Hypsos? For my wallet and preferences, yes.

Next song I played was _Target on my Chest_ by Brent Faiyaz- contemporary R&B- and a song I've heard no fewer than 200 times on the LCD-5 haha. It's a vocal forward track. And this added or rather reduced background that the Hypsos gave the Oor was unmistakable. And his vocals have never been rendered this way for me.

Lastly, _Pigs(Three Different Ones) _by Pink Floyd off the new 2018 remix of _Animals_. The inflections and tapping in Roger Water's bass line are more discernible. I was working while listening (i.e. not critically listening) and I honest to god didn't know his bass line went as hard as it does.

Most importantly, the smooth, non-fatiguing nature is preserved. Thanks for reading my impressions.


----------



## raps1514 (Sep 23, 2022)

So what’s a good DAC pairing for this stack? Lol. ~$1k range. I’ve heard good things about the Pegasus…


----------



## JAnonymous5150

TheFrator said:


> Picked up a Hypsos today after running the Oor without it for 3 months on my LCD-5. The differences were subtle / non-existent at first as I was listening to _10000 Days _by Tool. With the main thing I picked up on was bass having more weight to it. I genuinely thought I was just imagining it. And FWIW I don't want to hear a difference because I rather save some money. But oh no, god forbid I maybe save some money in this hobby by not hearing a difference.
> 
> _Spoonman_ by Soundgarden had somehow gotten queued up and the difference was instantaneous. The wall of sound the song begins with had more weight to the guitars and drum, sure. But more importantly, the background got blacker and instruments were more separated than I've ever heard in my life. Now if you're not familiar with 90s grunge- this was the peak of the loudness wars and Roon tells me the dynamic range of this album is 4 - which is amongst the lowest in my library. Is this background being blacker justifiable for a $1k price tag of the Hypsos? For my wallet and preferences, yes.
> 
> ...



I literally hate the fact that I hear a difference with the Hypsos lol! I have done expensive power supply tests before and heard nothing on some other amps that shall remain nameless so I was leaning towards the snake oil camp. However, when buying higher end gear, I always like to try out the configuration and complimentary equipment that the manufacturer claims will give the best performance and then make my mind up rather than writing it off from the beginning based on past results with other gear/manufacturers.

When I tried the Oor with and without the Hypsos the difference was pretty easily heard through the neo-prog playlist I had on at the time. It's not a "night and day" difference for me and the Oor is certainly a very capable amp without the Hypsos, but it is a clear difference and ultimately one worth the added cost given that I purchased the Oor seeking the absolute best performance for the headphones (DCA Stealths) that I bought seeking the same.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

raps1514 said:


> So what’s a good DAC pairing for this stack? Lol



I'm still demoing, but the Gustard X26 and the Holo May are my favorites from the list I've tried. The RME ADI-2 AKM version is also very good with it.


----------



## Andrewteee

raps1514 said:


> So what’s a good DAC pairing for this stack? Lol. ~$1k range. I’ve heard good things about the Pegasus…


IME the Oor is neutral to the DAC. I've tried it with two and both are fantastic. 

I bought the Oor with the Hypsos because I was sure it was designed to be optimized by the Hypsos and all reviews indicated that was true. So far, I love it!


----------



## TheFrator

raps1514 said:


> So what’s a good DAC pairing for this stack? Lol. ~$1k range. I’ve heard good things about the Pegasus…


I'm using it with the Schiit Bifrost 2/64. Pretty great pairing and I have no desire to go deeper into the DAC journey. I also try to buy American as much as I can- with the Oor ad Hypsos being the exception to my audio equipment.


----------



## TheFrator

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I literally hate the fact that I hear a difference with the Hypsos lol!


Same :/. I'm fighting expectation bias too. I would rather not hear the difference and put the $1k elsewhere but alas.


----------



## ozziegurkan

TheFrator said:


> Same :/. I'm fighting expectation bias too. I would rather not hear the difference and put the $1k elsewhere but alas.


For me I can definitely hear a difference, so the better the DAC, the better the outcome. I would at least get an RME but something more musical would be even better like the Yggy LIM and Holo Spring. I tried Hugo 2 but it sounded too thin in comparison.


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## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 23, 2022)

ozziegurkan said:


> For me I can definitely hear a difference, so the better the DAC, the better the outcome. I would at least get an RME but something more musical would be even better like the Yggy LIM and Holo Spring. I tried Hugo 2 but it sounded too thin in comparison.



I didn't think the TT2 was a good match for the Oor/Hypsos either. It makes me wonder if there is some kind of Chord "house sound" or some other factor that's common to their DAC lineup that leads to the mismatch for my ears.

Edit: I should mention that there seem to people that disagree with me on the TT2 mismatch and that my post just reflects my experience.


----------



## ic257

TheR0v3r said:


> This is going to be a post high on opinion but low on facts. I blame it on my lack of technical expertise .
> 
> My two main headphones are the ZMF VO and Audeze LCD-4. The Ferrum stack is nothing short of brilliant with the Audezes. The combo has that certain magic that is hard to explain but you know it when you hear it.
> 
> ...


Any other discoveries with the ZMF/OOR pairing? Has anyone else with ZMFs tried what was mentioned and found similar results and/or do most still prefer using them on tubes?


----------



## TheR0v3r

ic257 said:


> Any other discoveries with the ZMF/OOR pairing? Has anyone else with ZMFs tried what was mentioned and found similar results and/or do most still prefer using them on tubes?


I’ll write a post soon about my (mis)adventures with “4T Sensing” and “Spread spectrum” plus some remarks about the Zmf’s too. Promise 😉.


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## krude (Sep 24, 2022)

Somatic said:


> Susvara still sounds a bit thin on the Ferrum stack. Sounds great but I don't know if there is a pairing that will add a lot of note weight to these cans. I just think this is how they sound. I'm fine with that. Looking to add a chunky lush can to the stable.


I've spent almost a year now breaking in the Sus and trying to understand it.

My takeaway is, Susvara is perfect at what it does, its transparent and can be therefore bright if your system is bright.

It has the capability to display a fully layered 3d stage with bass also having a distinct place, which is something I have not heard any other set do.

Tracks that are well recorded sound excellent with good bass texture and dynamics.

Tracks that are not as well recorded, the bass gets lost somewhere.

Susvara doesn't do "omni present" bass without EQ, so when a track doesn't have well mixed bass you might need to EQ to get the "omni present" bass thump. I don't think it's Susvaras fault at all tho, its just very reference in a way it displays everything and especially bass. Im sure you've noticed that some high class recordings sound excellent with ample bass, and some lack bass a lot.

On the flipside when you have a well recorded track and you add even 1db of sub shelf you will audibly tarnish the timbre.

Therefore for me Susvaras bass is THE correct way to do bass. It took me many long hours to get to this.

Also you might want to experiment with your DAC, source, cabling etc to optimise. Susvara will use every last volt of dynamics in all ranges. Using high gain on Oor gives the best dynamics at the cost of very small amount of distortion.


----------



## nephilim32

TheFrator said:


> Picked up a Hypsos today after running the Oor without it for 3 months on my LCD-5. The differences were subtle / non-existent at first as I was listening to _10000 Days _by Tool. With the main thing I picked up on was bass having more weight to it. I genuinely thought I was just imagining it. And FWIW I don't want to hear a difference because I rather save some money. But oh no, god forbid I maybe save some money in this hobby by not hearing a difference.
> 
> _Spoonman_ by Soundgarden had somehow gotten queued up and the difference was instantaneous. The wall of sound the song begins with had more weight to the guitars and drum, sure. But more importantly, the background got blacker and instruments were more separated than I've ever heard in my life. Now if you're not familiar with 90s grunge- this was the peak of the loudness wars and Roon tells me the dynamic range of this album is 4 - which is amongst the lowest in my library. Is this background being blacker justifiable for a $1k price tag of the Hypsos? For my wallet and preferences, yes.
> 
> ...


These are excellent impressions with terrific enthusiasm for advocation of clean power pathways. As you know, my friend I use the PS Audio P3 Stellar Powerplant and that makes quite a difference on every front for me. 
I totally understand where you are coming from when it comes to bigger and better power supplies or AC Regeneration because I’ve experienced it first hand. And now you are.  
Yes. That Hypsos stack is awesome. It is top flight class for sure. 

Lastly. Keep cranking the Tool. I can totally relate. Fear Innoculum has gotten so much play lately, especially when testing my new gear.


----------



## Somatic

OneEyedHito said:


> The Ferrum Stack and a Woo WA22 with upgraded tubes is end game for me below $10K USD.  I have since moved both of them on (I have actually owned each 2x 🤦‍♂️) but the combo possibly bests the WA33 Standard with Stock tubes to my ears. Certainly bests all other sub $5K amps very easily again to my ears.
> 
> Thanks to a good friend I do currently have a WA33 Elite in house to try out but am waiting on another set of Susvara.  I will give my faulty memory impressions against the WA22/Ferrum stack soon enough.


What is your chain now?


----------



## Somatic

duranxv said:


> Great chain!  Currently I'm using a Holo Spring 3 KTE > Loki Max (I love EQ lol)  > Woo WA22 tube pre  > OOR + Hypsos > Kennerton Rognir Planar.  Absolute bliss.  Sound is damned amazing and I feel the OOR has revealed subtle details in music I didn't notice before, and improved the already phenomenal soundstage and imaging the Rognir has.


Is this still your setup? What did you get from adding the WA22 into your chain? Curious, if you heard and signal degradation from the Loki?


----------



## nephilim32

Somatic said:


> Is this still your setup? What did you get from adding the WA22 into your chain? Curious, if you heard and signal degradation from the Loki?


I am curious as well. I understand that between the WA 33 Elite and WA 22 ( with upgraded tubes) there are definitely sonic differences, but those differences don’t imply being better. 

Also. I have the WA 22 with upgraded tubes, so I can understand how good that amp can sound. It must be heavenly using the OOR as a pre amp with it. That would be pretty crazy.


----------



## OneEyedHito

Somatic said:


> What is your chain now?


Right now it is a Roon NUC into Matrix Element X via network and I have a Pathos Inpolear as amp but am going to list that for sale.  Going back to the Spring 3 with a Bliss Amp in the coming weeks.  I will use an ifi Stream into a KTE DDC to the Spring 3 then the Bliss.  Still on the lookout for another WA22 as I find it to be the best sound/value amp for my listening preferences along with the Preamp feature feeding my monitors but that would exist alongside the Kitsune items.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

I haven't had time yet to write something more extensive regarding the Holo Audio May DAC pairing with the Oor/Hypsos stack. I will see about doing that when I can, but here are a few thoughts.

The first thing that became apparent about the Holo May was that it doesn't have the added warmth or presence in the mid range that I'm used to hearing from R2R DACs. There is no coloration of any kind added to the sonic spectrum which is a plus in my book.

The Gustard X26 beat out many other DACs because it too remains transparent similar to the Holo May and it doesn't have the digital edge or grain that some DACs with plug n' play chip solutions can be prone to. Both the Holo May and the X26 do have the increased body and authority to their presentations that I feel matches very nicely with the Ferrum setup.

Where the Holo May differs from the X26 is in the staging and imaging side of things. The overall sonic picture is a touch wider, to my ear, with an increased sense of layering, separation, and placement within a 3D stage that certainly seems to have a greater sense of height. As a drummer, I'll use an example from the drum set. With the Holo May you get a clear image in which the various drums and cymbals aren't just arrayed left to right, but given increased space and definition on the vertical axis as well so that they come from different heights. The bass drum and floor tom come from a lower source/point in the stage than the crashes and chinas which will come from on high. My only caveat here is that this characteristic really only matters and is apparent on very well recorded, mixed, and mastered material and not on your average, run of the mill offering.

I have more listening to do, but the Holo May has certainly acquitted itself very well thus far and I'm looking forward to continued listening. I should mention that I sold off about $25k worth of drum and hifi gear with the intention of building my uncompromising, price is no object kind of rig. With that in mind, the relatively minor differences I've heard thus far from the May may well be my eventual reason for purchasing. For now I have secured an extra 2 weeks with my friend's DAC because he's the best. Thanks Alex!


----------



## TheFrator

TheFrator said:


> Picked up a Hypsos today after running the Oor without it for 3 months on my LCD-5. The differences were subtle / non-existent at first as I was listening to _10000 Days _by Tool. With the main thing I picked up on was bass having more weight to it. I genuinely thought I was just imagining it. And FWIW I don't want to hear a difference because I rather save some money. But oh no, god forbid I maybe save some money in this hobby by not hearing a difference.
> 
> _Spoonman_ by Soundgarden had somehow gotten queued up and the difference was instantaneous. The wall of sound the song begins with had more weight to the guitars and drum, sure. But more importantly, the background got blacker and instruments were more separated than I've ever heard in my life. Now if you're not familiar with 90s grunge- this was the peak of the loudness wars and Roon tells me the dynamic range of this album is 4 - which is amongst the lowest in my library. Is this background being blacker justifiable for a $1k price tag of the Hypsos? For my wallet and preferences, yes.
> 
> ...


After another dozen or so hours of listening time with the Hypsos added to the Oor, I have a few realizations I want to mention.

- I realize now that observation about _Spoonman _being more separated is a result of the soundstage becoming deeper. I had never experienced this effect when changing source equipment and really didn't know what other audiophiles meant when they said this. But now I know. The spaciousness and 3-D rendering of music this stack is doing is simply addicting. When listening to _m.A.A.d City _by Kendrick Lamar, I was taken aback by how much closer Kendrick's vocals are now over the instrumental. This observation is so apparent with most of my vocal forward music.

- Bass is incredible and has more impact(?- I don't know what other term to give it). The minute inflections in bass guitar notes are more easily discernible. I picked up on this initially with the _Pigs(Three Different Ones) _by Pink Floyd but I've confirmed it. The bass guitar in the intro to _Cochise _by Audioslave doesn't get lost in the mix anymore. And tbh I didn't know the bass was going as hard as it does after hundreds of listens to this song. The LCD-5 excels at bass quality and this stack just plays to its strength.

Both these features of what the Oor + Hypsos is doing is exemplified by the track _All That Matters_ by Blanco White. The increased depth to the stage combined with the added bass impact to acoustic instruments is simply phenomenal.


----------



## TheFrator

JAnonymous5150 said:


> As a drummer, I'll use an example from the drum set. With the Holo May you get a clear image in which the various drums and cymbals aren't just arrayed left to right, but given increased space and definition on the vertical axis as well so that they come from different heights. The bass drum and floor tom come from a lower source/point in the stage than the crashes and chinas which will come from on high. My only caveat here is that this characteristic really only matters and is apparent on very well recorded, mixed, and mastered material and not on your average, run of the mill offering.


My go-to test song is _Reflection_ by Tool. How does the Holo May render this song? (sorry I know this is the Ferrum thread but I can't help but ask )


----------



## JAnonymous5150

TheFrator said:


> My go-to test song is _Reflection_ by Tool. How does the Holo May render this song? (sorry I know this is the Ferrum thread but I can't help but ask )



I am no longer at home with the May, but I'll give it a listen when I get back there and I'll let you know.


----------



## EMINENT

TheFrator said:


> After another dozen or so hours of listening time with the Hypsos added to the Oor, I have a few realizations I want to mention.
> 
> - I realize now that observation about _Spoonman _being more separated is a result of the soundstage becoming deeper. I had never experienced this effect when changing source equipment and really didn't know what other audiophiles meant when they said this. But now I know. The spaciousness and 3-D rendering of music this stack is doing is simply addicting. When listening to _m.A.A.d City _by Kendrick Lamar, I was taken aback by how much closer Kendrick's vocals are now over the instrumental. This observation is so apparent with most of my vocal forward music.
> 
> ...



That was very articulate and I can tell it's having a nice impact to your experience.
I feel the sum of everything I have done and what one takes to get there is what matters most. I feel you have just taken another step closer to what I have been trying to explain but am not so great at.


----------



## TheFrator

EMINENT said:


> I feel the sum of everything I have done and what one takes to get there is what matters most.


100%. The journey is the whole reason. Without the years I spent with more affordable headphones and stacks, I wouldn't have the ear and preferences I have now.  


EMINENT said:


> I feel you have just taken another step closer to what I have been trying to explain but am not so great at.


Thank you my dude. My comments are just me describing my experiences if I was trying to describe it to my past self.


----------



## Somatic

I know the Hypsos is made for the Oor but curious if anyone has tried a Farad3 on the Oor instead. Maybe it might make the sound warmer?


----------



## iFi audio

OneEyedHito said:


> I will use an ifi Stream into a KTE DDC to the Spring 3 then the Bliss.



Please feel free to let us know how ZEN Stream works there, we're always interested in reading how it works in setups that don't feature our other stuff


----------



## OneEyedHito

iFi audio said:


> Please feel free to let us know how ZEN Stream works there, we're always interested in reading how it works in setups that don't feature our other stuff


It already worked incredibly well into my TT2 so I am assuming it will meld very well into this setup, I am gong to get an ifi Power Elite LPS for it though since I am upgrading my chain.  I already utilize a PS Audio Powerplant in my setup that I forgot to mention @Somatic.


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## Delta9K (Sep 26, 2022)

OneEyedHito said:


> Going back to the Spring 3




I run a NUC ROCK into a Sonore ultraRendu then USB into the Spring3 KTE (I am thinking about a DDC like a Hermes for the Spring, but the Holo USB is good) and still using the Ferrum stack with the Susvara being the primary headphone used on this setup.  I've thought about other amps and even DACs but instead I've started doing headphone, power, interconnects etc etc, and these things combined have made the system quite enjoyable, and I can still afford dinner once in a while too.


----------



## jonathan c

Delta9K said:


> I run a NUC ROCK into a Sonore ultraRendu then USB into the Spring3 KTE (I am thinking about a DDC like a Hermes for the Spring, but the Holo USB is good) and still using the Ferrum stack with the Susvara being the primary headphone used on this setup.  I've thought about other amps and even DACs but instead I've started doing headphone, power, interconnects etc etc, and these things combined have made the system quite enjoyable, and I can still afford dinner once in a while too.***


*** intermittent fasting is healthy ! 🤣


----------



## SteveM324

Somatic said:


> Susvara still sounds a bit thin on the Ferrum stack. Sounds great but I don't know if there is a pairing that will add a lot of note weight to these cans. I just think this is how they sound. I'm fine with that. Looking to add a chunky lush can to the stable.


My chain: Aurender W20SE > Holo May KTE > Auris Nirvana or Enleum 23R definitely has fullness and body.  The Nirvana provides more fullness and body, the Enleum has better detail and speed while still being quite full bodied (but not as much fullness as the Nirvana).


----------



## TheR0v3r

*Reflections on my (mis)adventures with “4T Sensing” and “Spread spectrum”*
A few weeks ago I wrote a post about trying to get my ZMF VO’s to sound magical with the Ferrum stack. Specifically by using the option of turning ”4T Sensing” and/or ”Spread Spectrum”. Just to recap the ZMF’s sound very, very good with H+O but my Audeze LCD-4’s sound magical. 

Anyway, I turned the options off one at a time and then both at the same time. With Patricia Barber’s ”Code Cool” I heard an improvement with these options off when listening thru the VO’s. @krude tried the same track with the same settings and wrote:


krude said:


> Tried Code Cool around 0:40 to 1:20 ... wow the sss region is hot in this one. I see what you mean tho, the distortion is helping the track in a way that it's covering some of the sharpness, at least that's how it sounds for me. Again I'm not an expert (actually I'm an audio engineer, but not actively working lol), that's how it sounds for me. So depends on the source material the extra distortion can help to make something sound better, but otherwise it will sharpen up well recorded highs. This is a lot more apparent on planars I think as well ... so yeah totally get what you're saying.
> 
> You can try a completely different test track, that generally has very well produced 20 / 20, I actually use it for sub and bass proper tests : Culture Shock - Bunker. Top end should be smooth and non offensive (again I don't know how it will sound on VCs and your stack) with those 2 options on, turn them off and in a few sec of playback the hats will become jagged and unrefined especially visible in the section 1:20 - 2:00, the top layers of percussions will loose separation and fold into a blob, turn them on again and it will go back to smooth and separated sound in another few sec.
> 
> ...


When I tried the same track with LCD-4’s I also heard increased distortion. At the same time I had enjoyed several tracks with the settings off on the VO’s. What was going on?

I looked back at my notes and noticed I had made a mistake. As I started to exoeriment the settings I changed the output voltage from 22.1v back to 24v. When I later tried the VO’s with ”4T Sensing” and ”Spread Spectrum” turned on I enjoyed the sound more than with 22.1v. But I still enjoyed them more with the options off... 

So I then decided to try the VO’s with a OTL I still have. It’s a Brocksieper EarMax that I had in storage, I pulled it out and ordered some new tubes. Then I connected it to the OOR and hooked up the VO’s to it. Wow, this was the tone and timbre I was looking for!!! Of course, the technicalities are not on the same level as with the Ferrum stack but the musicality that was lacking was there. 

My conclusion:


The most neutral and natural sound from the Ferrum stack is with ”4T Sensing” and ”Spread Spectrum” turned on.
The ZMF VO’s really need an OTL amp to sound their best. 
The Ferrum OOR with the Hypsos is one of the very best amps I have ever heard. The ZMF Verite Opens are an amazing pair of headphones. Unfortunately the synergy just isn’t there. All in my humble opinion.


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## Delta9K (Oct 1, 2022)

What settings sound better to the listener are going to be dependent on the entire system makeup, and the listener. There is no right or wrong.
What is nice about the Ferrum Hypsos/Oor is that there is a broader set of configuration options available to help adjust it to your setup and gears in use to better tailor sound to the listeners enjoyment.


----------



## AudioProm

ic257 said:


> Any other discoveries with the ZMF/OOR pairing? Has anyone else with ZMFs tried what was mentioned and found similar results and/or do most still prefer using them on tubes?





TheR0v3r said:


> The ZMF VO’s really need an OTL amp to sound their best.


I'll second this. It turns into a completely different beast with an OTL pairing.
The newer ZMF Atrium pairs really well with an OTL too but the difference is not as staggering when paired with Ferrum stacks as it does with VO.


----------



## hypnos1 (Oct 2, 2022)

Delta9K said:


> *What settings sound better to the listener are going to be dependent on the entire system makeup, and the listener. There is no right or wrong.*
> What is nice about the Ferrum Hypsos/Oor is that there is a broader set of configuration options available to help adjust it to your setup and gears in use to better tailor sound to the listeners enjoyment.


This does indeed of course apply in our quest for audio nirvana, along with all other related aspects lol...including the need for _extended_ time to achieve accurate assessment 

My personal, final thoughts on the Ferrum combo are that it is either a chameleon par excellence with regard to system pairing, or differences between folks' hearing are far greater than I ever imagined!...(probably _both_). For example, in my own TT2/mscaler/Empyrean setup I don't recognise any of the (even mild) criticisms sometimes mentioned in the final sound delivery. I also still read ad nauseum the now outdated bias from tube lovers re the typical SS 'digital' sound of old...SS having recently come along in leaps and bounds, and not only with the Ferrum of course . I myself spent years chasing my tail as an avid tube lover, and now realise that even with tubes costing £hundreds it's mostly a case of a never-ending exercise in *compromise*, let alone a fighting battle (struggle?) to come anywhere near the kind of totally 'noise' free, black background I'm now experiencing, or the fine detail handling/speed/timing/accuracy/control that continue to astound me. And as for SS 'tone' being inferior to tube, once again much will depend on the rest of the system (not least, cables!), as well as the degree of tube 'coloring' - ie *distortion*, which plays to personal preferences as opposed to _accuracy_ of course...

Ferrum's chameleon nature hit me unexpectedly so recently when I revisited my different recordings of Verdi's Requiem, but with my modded Denon DCD (SA)CD 1600 NE player as source in place of the Antipodes's SSD playback. The version that previously stood out as superior in recording quality/performance suddenly dropped down a place or 2...??!! And the _types_ of difference were all the more surprising given the Denon's already overall trouncing of the Antipodes.

 So the Ferrums _still_ show they have a good few tricks up their sleeves even now after months of (obsessive) assessment, and fulfil my tube days' prayers for an SS amp that could cover well _all_ areas - _without _compromise, and bring SS's own undoubted supremacy in some (to me!) very important ones. And the ability to fine tune performance by a simple change in DC voltage feed from Hypsos is a wonderful added bonus.

Mind you, I found tubedom - here at head-fi with some great guys at least, to be extremely interesting/informative/educational/*fun*... and wouldn't have missed it for the World. But given the sound I'm now enjoying I have no desire whatsoever to return to the (beautiful, but fastidious!) glass wonders...CHEERS Ferrum...


----------



## TheR0v3r (Oct 2, 2022)

hypnos1 said:


> This does indeed of course apply in our quest for audio nirvana, along with all other related aspects lol...including the need for _extended_ time to achieve accurate assessment
> 
> My personal, final thoughts on the Ferrum combo are that it is either a chameleon par excellence with regard to system pairing, or differences between folks' hearing are far greater than I ever imagined!...(probably _both_). For example, in my own TT2/mscaler/Empyrean setup I don't recognise any of the (even mild) criticisms sometimes mentioned in the final sound delivery. I also still read ad nauseum the now outdated bias from tube lovers re the typical SS 'digital' sound of old...SS having recently come along in leaps and bounds, and not only with the Ferrum of course . I myself spent years chasing my tail as an avid tube lover, and now realise that even with tubes costing £hundreds it's mostly a case of a never-ending exercise in *compromise*, let alone a fighting battle (struggle?) to come anywhere near the kind of totally 'noise' free, black background I'm now experiencing, or the fine detail handling/speed/timing/accuracy/control that continue to astound me. And as for SS 'tone' being inferior to tube, once again much will depend on the rest of the system (not least, cables!), as well as the degree of tube 'coloring' - ie *distortion*, which plays to personal preferences as opposed to _accuracy_ of course...
> 
> ...


Excellent and, for me, a very timely post.

As I wrote in ”Reflections on my (mis)adventures…” the distortion that was the result of turning off ”4T Sensing” and ”Spread Spectrum” had a positive effect when listening to certain tracks with the ZMF VO’s. In the end I reached the conclusion that they need an OTL amp to sound their best.

This has put me in a bit of a conundrum. With the Ferrum stack I’ve also found the headphone amp I’ve been searching for, a neutral and natural amp with the bonus of being able tune the sound by changing DC voltage that is indeed ”a wonderful added bonus”. Should I buy a tube amp to complement the Ferrum stack or stick with my plan of having only one amp (and in the end maybe even selling the ZMF’s)?

Just to add to my confusion, I’ve had the opportunity to try a pair of Focal Utopias (2020) during the last few days thanks to my fantastic local shop. And they sound a-m-a-z-i-n-g with the Ferrum stack, holy cow ! (I eq everything but this time I only added a high pass filter inspired by @Rayon and this post which improved the bass response IMHO.)

The funny thing is that the Utopias sound very, very similar to my eq:d LCD-4’s. The Utopias sound slightly more ”dynamic” (pun intended!), the LCD-4 have slightly better midrange and vocal presentation.

Decisions, decisions, decisions...


----------



## AudioProm

TheR0v3r said:


> Should I buy a tube amp to complement the Ferrum stack or stick with my plan of having only one amp (and in the end maybe even selling the ZMF’s)?


An OTL to me at least, is a very specialized type of amp. for high impedance headphones. 300ohms headphones pairing always give out that tube magic I can't quite get from a solid state. It is part of my rotations to avoid listening boredom and plus, it's great for the winter .

It reminds me why I loved the VO being part of my collection every time I fired it up. It makes me wish I did not sell my 6XX sometimes.

Maybe you can bring your VO to a local dealer with selection of OTLs and reassess?


----------



## krude

TheR0v3r said:


> Excellent and, for me, a very timely post.
> 
> As I wrote in ”Reflections on my (mis)adventures…” the distortion that was the result of turning off ”4T Sensing” and ”Spread Spectrum” had a positive effect when listening to certain tracks with the ZMF VO’s. In the end I reached the conclusion that they need an OTL amp to sound their best.
> 
> ...


Utopia is also best enjoyed on tubes (or rather it's a different beast on tubes), but rather a transformer based amp than an OTL. Also with Utopia and tubes there is one issue, it's very sensitive so it will pick up any noise and most tube amps have background noise ... nothing is perfect ... but if you can ignore the bg noise Utopia on tubes is supremely engaging delivering bombastic dynamics and powerful presentation.


----------



## Somatic

TheR0v3r said:


> Let’s see.
> 
> The setup I had was Chord Hugo 2 -> Chord MScaler -> Primaluna EVO400 -> Burson 3xp
> 
> ...


Did you ever try the Merason DAC1 with Ferrum and Primaluna all together? I'm thinking of doing Dave (Farad3) > Primaluna E400 preamp* > Ferrum stack. Wondering if adding the Primaluna would be a good synery. 

Ferrum was a gateway drug for me. Makes me want more warmth now.


----------



## Somatic

Roasty said:


> the Evo 400 pre is an amazing component. I tried Evo 400 pre to Ferrum stack in bypass mode, and I preferred Evo 400 to Kinki power amp.
> 
> at the dealers, I did try the Evo 400 integrated and yes it was great with both the TC and Sus. if I didn't already have a power amp, I probably would have just gotten the integrated.


I understand you liked the Kinki better than Ferrum when using the EVO 400 premp but did you like Ferrum + EVO400 more than solo Ferrum stack? I guess I can easily sell the Ferrum and get a speaker amp to go with the EVO400 ... did you end up tube rolling or using stock? Thanks.


----------



## TheR0v3r (Oct 4, 2022)

Somatic said:


> Did you ever try the Merason DAC1 with Ferrum and Primaluna all together? I'm thinking of doing Dave (Farad3) > Primaluna E400 preamp* > Ferrum stack. Wondering if adding the Primaluna would be a good synery.
> 
> Ferrum was a gateway drug for me. Makes me want more warmth now.


Unfortunately I didn’t.

The Primaluna Evo 400 is a very, very special preamp. As I remember it actually isn’t “warm” in a traditional way - it just adds tube “goodness” to any setup!

I believe it would work very well with the Ferrum stack 👍

Edit: Use it with the Xlr output for best sound.


----------



## Roasty

Somatic said:


> I understand you liked the Kinki better than Ferrum when using the EVO 400 premp but did you like Ferrum + EVO400 more than solo Ferrum stack? I guess I can easily sell the Ferrum and get a speaker amp to go with the EVO400 ... did you end up tube rolling or using stock? Thanks.



Evo 400 + ferrum over ferrum alone for sure. I swapped out all the stock tubes. am using NOS Brimar rectifiers and NOS Mullard 12au7 tubes.


----------



## TheR0v3r (Oct 5, 2022)

krude said:


> Utopia is also best enjoyed on tubes (or rather it's a different beast on tubes), but rather a transformer based amp than an OTL. Also with Utopia and tubes there is one issue, it's very sensitive so it will pick up any noise and most tube amps have background noise ... nothing is perfect ... but if you can ignore the bg noise Utopia on tubes is supremely engaging delivering bombastic dynamics and powerful presentation.


The Utopias are just fantastic with the Ferum stack, I can’t stop listening to them .

This is the third time I’ve tried the Utopia (previously with Chord Dave and TT2) and this time I’m keeping ’em. It also means that I’ve decided to let go of my ZMF’s in order to finance the Utopia’s. Feels strange to see my collection of three headphones without the ZMF Verite Open... They are a great pair of headphones and I’ll miss them very much.

In 2023 I look forward to adding a tube amp to my setup, the way you described it got me interested. But now it’s back to Kris Delmhorst and ”Long Day in the Milky Way”


----------



## krude

TheR0v3r said:


> The Utopias are just fantastic with the Ferum stack, I can’t stop listening to them .
> 
> This is the third time I’ve tried the Utopia (previously with Chord Dave and TT2) and this time I’m keeping ’em. It also means that I’ve decided to let go of my ZMF’s in order to finance the Utopia’s. Feels strange to see my collection of three headphones without the ZMF Verite Open... They are a great pair of headphones and I’ll miss them very much.
> 
> In 2023 I look forward to adding a tube amp to my setup, the way you described it got me interested. But now it’s back to Kris Delmhorst and ”Long Day in the Milky Way”


Nice one, Utopia is an amazing set. It changes a lot as you noticed based on the stack. It's amazing on Ferrum, but when you get a tube amp it will most likely feel like you have 2 headphones in one


----------



## TheR0v3r

TheR0v3r said:


> The Utopias are just fantastic with the Ferum stack, I can’t stop listening to them .
> 
> This is the third time I’ve tried the Utopia (previously with Chord Dave and TT2) and this time I’m keeping ’em. It also means that I’ve decided to let go of my ZMF’s in order to finance the Utopia’s. Feels strange to see my collection of three headphones without the ZMF Verite Open... They are a great pair of headphones and I’ll miss them very much.
> 
> In 2023 I look forward to adding a tube amp to my setup, the way you described it got me interested. But now it’s back to Kris Delmhorst and ”Long Day in the Milky Way”


Just a short update after using the Utopias with the Ferrum stack for a couple of nights. The synergy is just amazing - the musicality is fantastic! I can listen to music for hours with zero fatigue. 

The Ferrum stack is ever so slightly warm (I wrote ”natural”) but not strictly neutral. A the same time it’s very detailed and transparent, I love to tweak and it’s been very fun to tune the sound of the Utopia’s with eq. (I have tried to bring out some more subbas, remove the upper bass emphasis and smoothed out the upper midrange/lower treble.)

In alot of reviews the Utopia’s are described as having a smaller/narrow soundstage and sounding bright, I’m not hearing that at all. Instead I’m hearing one of the very best headphones I’ve ever heard. Congrats Ferrum and Focal !


----------



## TheR0v3r (Oct 9, 2022)

Roasty said:


> Evo 400 + ferrum over ferrum alone for sure. I swapped out all the stock tubes. am using NOS Brimar rectifiers and NOS Mullard 12au7 tubes.


Did you have the opportunity to try the Ferrum as preamp to the Kinki THR-1?

I’m looking for a complementary setup to power the Audezes and want even more “attack” to the sound !


----------



## Somatic

Has anyone compared the Ferrum stack to the Pathos Inpol?


----------



## TheR0v3r

Just a short tip about finding the ”best” voltage setting for your chain. I’ve been using female voices to tweak my settings. When you increase the voltage the sound starts to dry up and past a certain point female voices start to sound coarse, rapsy and slightly ”hollow”, lacking body and weight. At first I had a hard time hearing the differences but focusing on female voices (and decay of bass notes) it has become much easier.


----------



## Somatic

TheR0v3r said:


> Just a short tip about finding the ”best” voltage setting for your chain. I’ve been using female voices to tweak my settings. When you increase the voltage the sound starts to dry up and past a certain point female voices start to sound coarse, rapsy and slightly ”hollow”, lacking body and weight. At first I had a hard time hearing the differences but focusing on female voices (and decay of bass notes) it has become much easier.


Nice. I was using female vocals as well. But never found them to get hollow yet. I have the Oor at the minimum voltage


----------



## Roasty

TheR0v3r said:


> Did you have the opportunity to try the Ferrum as preamp to the Kinki THR-1?
> 
> I’m looking for a complementary setup to power the Audezes and want even more “attack” to the sound !



sorry man, never got round to testing the thr-1..


----------



## JAnonymous5150

My two favorite DACs thus far with the Oor/Hypsos stack have been the Holo Audio May and the Gustard X26. As of last night I'm demoing the SMSL VMV D3 at the behest of a friend who ended up selling his May because he likes the way the D3 sounds with his Oor/Hypsos and LCD 4 & 5 setup so much better. Do any of my fellow Oor owners and users have any experience with the D3 and some tips or experience you think might be useful? I haven't had a ton of time for listening yet, but I'll be heading home soon to do my first comparitive session with the Holo May.


----------



## Francisco Evangelista

damascato said:


> I have just received my Oor and Hypsos. Using them with a Holo May Dac and with Susvara. I was previously using an iCan Pro Signature, still on my desk.
> 
> The Ferrum is connected to the may via single ended RCA (XRL still connected to the iCAN).
> 
> ...


Did you get more gain with the OOR XLR input to your dac? VS the RCA input on the OOR?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

For those who are interested, I have been auditioning tons of DACs so I can have the absolute best rig possible for driving my DCA Stealth and Expanse. For delta-sigma chip based solutions the Gustard X26 has proven to be great and I will be keeping it regardless of what other DAC I go with because it's a great piece of gear and its versatile.

I've found myself moving deeper and deeper into R2R territory and have foubd the Holo Audio May to be very impressive over the month or so I have had my friend's May for. I was all set to order my own when another friend who has the Oor/Hypsos stack and the May to drive his LCD 4&5 told me that he was selling his May because he had found something he liked even better in the SMSL VMV D3.

I had read mixed reviews and would likely never have tried the D3 if he wasn't so insistent that he offered to let me borrow his D3 for a week and sell me his May for partial trade and great price if I still wanted it after. The D3 is a very unique option that won't be everyone's cup of tea, but shouldn't be overlooked. It has a noticeably non-reference presentation that adds significant warmth and some low end. The treble may also be slightly rolled off or it may just seem so when listening relative to the low end boost.

This additional warmth and bass doesn't come at the expense of detail which is still there in spades. Nor does it seem to skew the timbre much or make it inaccurate. The soundstage is not as impressive on my rig as it is with the May, but it does have a very nice stage in it's own right with good width, depth, and height and it also has a very unique ability to keep that soundstage very uniform regardless of shortcomings or different properties in the recordings it's rendering. The stage remains almost precisely the same as far as feel and dimensions go in a way that I haven't heard matched by any other DAC and it makes comparative and critical listening that much easier.

For me personally, the D3 won't work as a primary DAC. I purchased both pairs of DCAs because I relish how clean and uncolored their sonic reproductive performance is and the D3 is too much in the opposite direction for it to be as versatile as an everyday, primary DAC needs to be for me. That said, if I ever spot a great deal on one, I could easily see picking it up down the line as a unique second option. For those of you who might like those properties in a DAC, the D3 is a quality piece of gear and I have never heard anything quite like it.

I'm gonna be picking up my May when I head over to return my friend's D3 and I'm excited for that (New DAC Day!)! I wrote this because I think many, like I might have, are looking past the D3 based on the mixed reviews and I just wanted people to hear from a different source that the D3 shouldn't be dismissed out of hand and should be heard/demoed if you get the chance. In a world of thousands of very similar sounding DACs, the D3 is a unique option that just might be the flavor you're looking for.


----------



## ozziegurkan

JAnonymous5150 said:


> For those who are interested, I have been auditioning tons of DACs so I can have the absolute best rig possible for driving my DCA Stealth and Expanse. For delta-sigma chip based solutions the Gustard X26 has proven to be great and I will be keeping it regardless of what other DAC I go with because it's a great piece of gear and its versatile.
> 
> I've found myself moving deeper and deeper into R2R territory and have foubd the Holo Audio May to be very impressive over the month or so I have had my friend's May for. I was all set to order my own when another friend who has the Oor/Hypsos stack and the May to drive his LCD 4&5 told me that he was selling his May because he had found something he liked even better in the SMSL VMV D3.
> 
> ...


How would you compare the X26 to the RME?


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## JAnonymous5150

First off, my RME is the OG AKM version that I sought out specifically because I wanted another AKM option that was known for that touch of euphonic musicality to it as a different option to my super clean ESS based DACs. The RME has a quite smooth and laid back character that doesn't lose any detail or accuaracy and I think it's great for listening when I want that more musical character without the added warmth that comes with that character in other options from the likes of Burr-Brown for example. It has a good soundstage with above average depth. I think it matches very well with headphones that I use specifically for those more musical applications like my ZMFs for example.

Conversely, the X26 is very much a classic ESS DAC as far as sound sig goes: Precise, uncolored (though not particularly cold), and clinical with well defined note edges and a a very clean black background. It has a better than average soundstage in all directions (width, depth, and height), offers great separation and placement within that stage, and creates a very, very clear stereo image. I really like the X26 as a great compliment to some of my super detailed and neutral headphones like either of my DCAs and mu K812 Pros amongst others. This DAC is exceptional for critical listening sessions or just highly engaged exploratory listening sessions where you're enjoying pickiby your way through every nuance and detail you can find.

I hope this was helpful. If not feel free to ask questions and I'll try my best to do better...or just put it down to the ramblings of a mad man, smile, and drop me a thumbs up emoji. 😉


----------



## Somatic

I recently got a 1m Apeiron + NEOTECH NEX-OCC RH XLR interconnect from Arctic cables. From Dave to Ferrum. Sounds very good. Any harshness in my chain smoothed out nicely but all micro details are still there. I like it a lot. Its is a 15.5-AWG per polarity in a 4-wire configuration (Approx 9-AWG in total). 

I still have a silver RCA cable as well. Haven't A/B them yet though.


----------



## cglin222

ozziegurkan said:


> Yeah, I know. So, I confirmed it with my highly scientific method.
> 
> OOR spl:
> 
> ...



so i noticed you had both ican pro sig and ferrum o/h stack, but you are listing ican pro sig for sale.. is ferrum o/h stack better or...
thanks


----------



## cglin222

I still doesn't get how the standby on Hypsos work. I press the and hold the button on Hypsos, and it goes into standby, and I also have setting to put connected devices, in this case the OOR to standby.. but really I have no idea if they are really in standby, probably the Hypsos is in standby as the LED on logo goes to 10% which I've set, other than that. I am not sure if OOR is in standby.  And as soon as I play some music, it started playing, but Hypsos LED is still in the 10% and not 50% as I've set it when it should be in working state, until i press the button on the Hypsos, the led went back to 50%.. How does the trigger on the Hypsos work? does it also only trigger to standby correct?


----------



## ozziegurkan

cglin222 said:


> so i noticed you had both ican pro sig and ferrum o/h stack, but you are listing ican pro sig for sale.. is ferrum o/h stack better or...
> thanks


I find the OOR stack to be less fatiguing and more natural sounding. It’s hard to describe unless you hear it yourself with your favorite headphone. It almost seems like the sound is coming through effortlessly which might mean less distortion or more even power throughout the frequency range. I’m not sure. With that said, though, the ifi can really punch hard with the bass and it’s very dynamic and engaging. That isn’t to say OOR is not, but it does so with more ease and less straining. Also, the ifi is a dupe for me at this point since I also have a Bigger Ben tube amp that I keep rolling tubes on, so it’s got to go!


----------



## ozziegurkan

ozziegurkan said:


> I find the OOR stack to be less fatiguing and more natural sounding. It’s hard to describe unless you hear it yourself with your favorite headphone. It almost seems like the sound is coming through effortlessly which might mean less distortion or more even power throughout the frequency range. I’m not sure. With that said, though, the ifi can really punch hard with the bass and it’s very dynamic and engaging. That isn’t to say OOR is not, but it does so with more ease and less straining. Also, the ifi is a dupe for me at this point since I also have a Bigger Ben tube amp that I keep rolling tubes on, so it’s got to go!


I'm also going to list my Burson. I am waiting for the Holo Bliss to be announced and get my hands on it to compare with the OOR. Stay tuned.


----------



## hypnos1 (Oct 19, 2022)

ozziegurkan said:


> I find the OOR stack to be less fatiguing and more natural sounding. It’s hard to describe unless you hear it yourself with your favorite headphone.* It almost seems like the sound is coming through effortlessly which might mean less distortion or more even power throughout the frequency range.* I’m not sure. With that said, though, the ifi can really punch hard with the bass and it’s very dynamic and engaging. That isn’t to say OOR is not, but it does so with more ease and less straining. Also, the ifi is a dupe for me at this point since I also have a Bigger Ben tube amp that I keep rolling tubes on, so it’s got to go!


Definitely _both_ IMHO ozzie! ....and in no small measure assisted by having the Hypsos as PS no doubt - even if a tad overpriced in many folks' eyes. And not to mention upstream gear/cables of course 

I personally am still very impressed with the Ferrums' mastery over historic SS listening 'fatigue', even at higher than normal volume levels. When my ears/brain can take it(!), I enjoy bringing out detail sometimes recessed at lower levels, not to mention helping (very) dynamic passages (such as 'Battle' in the film Gladiator) get just a little closer to rattling my body a la speakers!!...and more so than I have ever experienced in the past. But I'm talking *minute *'recessed' detail here - this stack still retains detail at lower volume levels exceptionally well...again better than I have known pre-Ferrum.

In addition, never before have I been equally bowled over at the beginning of each new listening session...constantly enjoying that old chestnut - 'haven't heard that detail before' lol!  And apologies for repetition, but this factor has been compounded significantly by the addition of the (modded) Denon DCD 1600 NE (SA)CD player as source, and on which the Denon guys have obviously worked some _real_ magic.

As always, the above refers to _my particular system_...and I feel sorry for any that don't replicate it lol!!


----------



## Somatic

Gavin C4 said:


> Actually do think a tube amp is a really good complement with the OOR. While the OOR gives a really detailed SS presentation, a tube amp can give a golden atmosphere and warmth. You could even use it as a tube pre to the OOR in power amp mode.


Isn't this the only way to do it? If using a tube preamp does the Oor have to be in power amp mode? My only fear is that I use high gain with the Susvara with the Oor. Prefer it over mid gain which is the same setting the power amp mode uses. Thanks.


----------



## Somatic

Sajid Amit said:


> Yup. Agree.
> 
> Off my PrimaLuna EVO 400 Preamp, I get a more coherent soundstage that floats in front of me and perceptibly less three blob.
> 
> I actually also get more midrange microdynamics and a slightly sweeter treble presentation which works excellently with the Utopia and the Susvara.


Was this comment when you paired the Oor and EVO pre together? Good pairing? Thanks.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Somatic said:


> Was this comment when you paired the Oor and EVO pre together? Good pairing? Thanks.


Yes.


----------



## Somatic

chargedcapacitor said:


> No, that's not how gain works. On medium gain the max power output is likely ~more~ less than half of hi gain. No one has measured it, or posted the results, as far as I'm aware.


Hmmm I use high gain with the Susvara. If I get a tube preamp not sure I want to use the bypass amp mode on the Ferrum which is close to medium gain? Probably will get an AHB2 instead ...


----------



## Roasty

Somatic said:


> Hmmm I use high gain with the Susvara. If I get a tube preamp not sure I want to use the bypass amp mode on the Ferrum which is close to medium gain? Probably will get an AHB2 instead ...



you can still use ferrum bypass mode (close to med gain) with the Susvara, as the preamp you add into the chain will likely have some dB gain too eg my prima has +10dB.


----------



## Somatic

Roasty said:


> you can still use ferrum bypass mode (close to med gain) with the Susvara, as the preamp you add into the chain will likely have some dB gain too eg my prima has +10dB.


Ok good to know. I wasn't sure how many extra DB I was going to get. Appreciate it.


----------



## MisterButthead

cglin222 said:


> I still doesn't get how the standby on Hypsos work. I press the and hold the button on Hypsos, and it goes into standby, and I also have setting to put connected devices, in this case the OOR to standby.. but really I have no idea if they are really in standby, probably the Hypsos is in standby as the LED on logo goes to 10% which I've set, other than that. I am not sure if OOR is in standby.  And as soon as I play some music, it started playing, but Hypsos LED is still in the 10% and not 50% as I've set it when it should be in working state, until i press the button on the Hypsos, the led went back to 50%.. How does the trigger on the Hypsos work? does it also only trigger to standby correct?


You're not putting Hypsos it in standby correctly.   Press and hold the Hypsos knob for about a second and it will enter standby mode. There will be an audible click when it goes into standby.  Both logos on Hypsos & Oor will turn off.  To turn it back on, simply press the Hypsos knob.


----------



## cglin222

MisterButthead said:


> You're not putting Hypsos it in standby correctly.   Press and hold the Hypsos knob for about a second and it will enter standby mode. There will be an audible click when it goes into standby.  Both logos on Hypsos & Oor will turn off.  To turn it back on, simply press the Hypsos knob.


I think I got it figured out but the hypsos led logo is depended on the setting, to have it lit or off during standby. But my oor is off now when I put hypsos to standby and I tried the settings on hypsos to disable or 10% led so decided to just disable during standby
Thanks


----------



## MisterButthead

cglin222 said:


> I think I got it figured out but the hypsos led logo is depended on the setting, to have it lit or off during standby. But my oor is off now when I put hypsos to standby and I tried the settings on hypsos to disable or 10% led so decided to just disable during standby
> Thanks


Ah, I forgot about the setting to dim the Hypsos logo on standby.  You are correct.  Good to hear you got it figured out.  If I recall, the standby mode is not fully documented in the user manual; it's not surprising to be initially confused.


----------



## cglin222

MisterButthead said:


> Ah, I forgot about the setting to dim the Hypsos logo on standby.  You are correct.  Good to hear you got it figured out.  If I recall, the standby mode is not fully documented in the user manual; it's not surprising to be initially confused.


Ya and I initially changed to power on standby to ON too no wonder my oor is still on while hypsos on standby. Got confused on the wording 😆


----------



## ziggz

I have the OOR/Hypsos coming next week, I was using GS-X Mini as my SS amp, but was made an offer that I couldn’t pass up for it. Looking forward to seeing what this thing can do.


----------



## damascato

Hey guys what is the reccommended voltage to get the best out of Susvara?


----------



## krude

damascato said:


> Hey guys what is the reccommended voltage to get the best out of Susvara?


Depends on your preference. I sit at 22v sometimes going to nominal 24v. 22v to my ears have bigger stage, softer treble and more bottom. 24v is tighter with full control and more balanced. YMMV


----------



## damascato

krude said:


> Depends on your preference. I sit at 22v sometimes going to nominal 24v. 22v to my ears have bigger stage, softer treble and more bottom. 24v is tighter with full control and more balanced. YMMV


oh so better to decrease it and not vice versa.... thought I needed to give MORE volts to get better results!

But thanks mate!


----------



## hypnos1

damascato said:


> oh so better to decrease it and not vice versa.... thought I needed to give MORE volts to get better results!
> 
> But thanks mate!


Lower voltage gives higher amps (current) which should help the hungrier beasts out there lol


----------



## hypnos1 (Oct 27, 2022)

krude said:


> Depends on your preference. I sit at 22v sometimes going to nominal 24v. 22v to my ears have bigger stage, softer treble and more bottom. 24v is tighter with full control and more balanced. YMMV


Hi k...even my much easier to drive Empyreans respond in exactly the same way...(in my system). 99.9% of the time I much prefer the nominal 24v - supreme balance to be sure! The degree will also depend upon the rest of the system - as with everything else lol!! ... once again a feature of the Ferrum stack highlighted even more by my Denon 1600 NE as source, viz a track whose slightly harsh nature was previously softened by the Antipodes, and especially tubes of old. But simply taking Hypsos down to 22v took off just enough of the edge so I could keep the volume high, with minimal sacrifice to the overall aforementioned balance...but still, a certain element was compromised re my (now) preferred presentation. However, this was to far less a degree than with tubes especially - their seductive 'golden glow' I now realise generally comes at a price I personally am no longer prepared to swallow I'm afraid ...(and changing H's V out is far easier and less prone to potential disaster than constant tube swapping for such tweaking!).

ps This change of source just keeps on highlighting more and more of the Ferrums' talents...(as I also keep on mentioning lol!  ).


----------



## Exekuhtor

I also feel that the soundstage, or better said, the instruments / vocals imaging can shift a bit with certain headphones.
Like the guitar player or the drummer or the vocalist taking 1 step back or forward. It's a very minimal change and sometimes i _think_ that i perceive a difference but second guess myself when i try to replicate it, lol...


----------



## hypnos1 (Oct 27, 2022)

Exekuhtor said:


> I also feel that the soundstage, or better said, the instruments / vocals imaging can shift a bit with certain headphones.
> Like the guitar player or the drummer or the vocalist taking 1 step back or forward. It's a very minimal change and sometimes i _think_ that i perceive a difference but second guess myself when i try to replicate it, lol...


Yes indeed E...made all the more potentially complex (frustrating?!) depending on what feeds them lol.

Actually, I myself have over the years been constantly surprised (and often unexpectedly so given others' findings) by how this factor can change in response to gear change, including cables...and not only minimally. I'm fascinated by just how different a recording can sound depending on how the system separates and positions instruments/voices within the stage. My own current setup manages this trick in a way I've never experienced before, and certainly different to what another Ferrum owner recently mentioned compared to a tube amp...ie OOR now presents all elements in the recording so clearly and distinctly, and places them in a wonderfully _expansive_ field *without *losing coherence or fine imaging/focus. And for me - as I suspect with most headphone lovers out there, this is precisely what I want from headphone listening, and is where it excels of course...if I want a more central presentation then I use speakers, which will do the job far better than cans at a fraction of the cost lol!! 
But as always, it's horses for courses...

ps. I'm finding more and more now that this factor also depends greatly on the skill of the recording engineer...not to mention the producer's personal preferences, and the quality of the final media offering to the public lol!


----------



## Francisco Evangelista

IanB52 said:


> I just put one of the SR Purple fuses in my Hypsos and it sounds great, though usually takes many hours to settle.
> 
> When I got the Oor+Hypsos I felt that it was already so transparent that my usual SR fuses might not accomplish much. Over the weekend a found a used 2 amp orange fuse I had laying around, and it was actually a nice improvement in depth and clarity.
> 
> Then the purple came today and really surprised by how different it sounds compared to the orange. In many ways it is better than orange, more spacious, and stronger bass, but also seems quite colorful. *Almost* like adding a tube input stage. There seems to be a "glow" to the sound now. Very interesting, esp on such a ridiculously transparent amp.


what type did you order ? Slow, fast ? T2.5A?


----------



## duffer5

I have the age old question regarding the pre-out settings for my DAC when connecting the Oor headphone amp.  

I plan on using the Oor with my HifiRose 150b and setting the 150b to fixed volume while using the variable volume of the Oor. 

What should I be setting the 150B‘s pre-out to based on the Oor’s input sensitivity. 

Please see the photo of the pre-out options on the Rose 150b 

I appreciate the sage advice in advance  






.


----------



## Andrewteee

duffer5 said:


> I have the age old question regarding the pre-out settings for my DAC when connecting the Oor headphone amp.
> 
> I plan on using the Oor with my HifiRose 150b and setting the 150b to fixed volume while using the variable volume of the Oor.
> 
> ...


I use 2V with my DAC and Oor. I tried 6V and it was too much. 2V is the right balance for my system and demanding headphones. As far as I know it outputs 2V for balanced and unbalanced.


----------



## FooFighter

Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE does output 5.8Vrms (XLR) in PCM mode into Oor which is running best balanced anyway.
No issues with that hot voltage.
With demanding cans like Susvara you will profit from the high voltage especially if you apply additional PEQ.
With "normal" headphones Oor has enough power to let you run it with lower voltage inputs without asking for more headroom.


----------



## krude

duffer5 said:


> I have the age old question regarding the pre-out settings for my DAC when connecting the Oor headphone amp.
> 
> I plan on using the Oor with my HifiRose 150b and setting the 150b to fixed volume while using the variable volume of the Oor.
> 
> ...


Use as much as you can to maximise dynamics. It should be able to take 6,5v i think, if you have any issues drop to 6v which it takes no problem.

Also different voltages will sound slightly different so try out different levels and use whatever sounds best in your system.  

I also get 5.8v from Holo May.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

krude said:


> Use as much as you can to maximise dynamics. It should be able to take 6,5v i think, if you have any issues drop to 6v which it takes no problem.
> 
> Also different voltages will sound slightly different so try out different levels and use whatever sounds best in your system.
> 
> I also get 5.8v from Holo May.



I was just about to chime in with basically this. I use the May too. Mind if I ask what settings you're using on your Oor and what headphones you're using it with?


----------



## krude (Oct 30, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I was just about to chime in with basically this. I use the May too. Mind if I ask what settings you're using on your Oor and what headphones you're using it with?


Mainly Susvara 22v high gain all balanced, but Utopia and TC also sound really good to me on the same settings. (Medium gain for TC and Utopia tho) 

Tbh I mostly use Oor as a pre into my HA6a, I find the result of that pretty end game and superior to using only one of the amps.


----------



## FooFighter (Oct 30, 2022)

In general my impression is that Oor is more warm and lush on mid gain with slightly bigger bass impact vs slightly brighter (and a tad leaner but potentially tighter on high gain) with any headphone and it will depend also on synergy like a warmer can (e.g Solitaire P) can benefit from the high gain tonality.
I ve been switching back and forth in the past with Susvara, TC and now SolP and Elite depending on mood and track mixing.
I ve read that only on mid gain the stock amp design is used (and so is the Oor preamp / Poweramp mode running in mid gain) whereas the high gain is triggering some on top Opamp stage?


----------



## duffer5

Andrewteee said:


> I use 2V with my DAC and Oor. I tried 6V and it was too much. 2V is the right balance for my system and demanding headphones. As far as I know it outputs 2V for balanced and unbalanced.





FooFighter said:


> Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE does output 5.8Vrms (XLR) in PCM mode into Oor which is running best balanced anyway.
> No issues with that hot voltage.
> With demanding cans like Susvara you will profit from the high voltage especially if you apply additional PEQ.
> With "normal" headphones Oor has enough power to let you run it with lower voltage inputs without asking for more headroom.





krude said:


> Use as much as you can to maximise dynamics. It should be able to take 6,5v i think, if you have any issues drop to 6v which it takes no problem.
> 
> Also different voltages will sound slightly different so try out different levels and use whatever sounds best in your system.
> 
> I also get 5.8v from Holo May.


All super helpful.  Very much appreciated.


----------



## SlothRock

My spring 3 with the OOR is all I could ever ask for. The combo is perfect. So perfect, in fact, I don’t use my tube amp anymore lol so I’m selling it and keeping this combo instead. I don’t know how it could get better other than maybe the May over the Spring 3 but I legit have no complaints with this setup. It’s perfect.


----------



## DMITRIY R

SlothRock said:


> My spring 3 with the OOR is all I could ever ask for. The combo is perfect. So perfect, in fact, I don’t use my tube amp anymore lol so I’m selling it and keeping this combo instead. I don’t know how it could get better other than maybe the May over the Spring 3 but I legit have no complaints with this setup. It’s perfect.


Do I understand correctly that to your ears Susvara works better with Ferrum Orr than with Burson Soloist GT?


----------



## SlothRock

DMITRIY R said:


> Do I understand correctly that to your ears Susvara works better with Ferrum Orr than with Burson Soloist GT?


For me, personally, yes. They both sound great, but the OOR still beats out the Soloist for sure. I also find the operation of the OOR to be way more convenient and less tedious in addition to the better sound.


----------



## Annarob1947

prismstorm said:


> So do you keep it just for certain genres and switch to Audeze / Focal / Abyss when anything with bass is being played? I have found Susvara's tuning is great for instrumental / classical / jazz, but makes almost everything else flat, soft, emotionless, and un-engaging.
> 
> Agreed, it's not delivering world class slam for world class price, even after the chain and power has been improved to match it. I guess it's just the nature of it, and am surprised it gained such a favourable reputation even with this level of bass performance.
> 
> ...


Im understanding you well, i have Lcd5,  with Oor and Hypsos I need 3 0,clock on high gain with XLR  headphones cable.
I decided as i have Chord Qutest and Anni also Mscaler,  i would comparec5o Chord Anni  instead.
Bass is great, lots of weight and fast slam, this on low gain at 2 o'clock volume.
Ferrum stack by comparison is rather boring i feel , will be keeping Chord set up, one point, you need stands with Anni, otherwise shes a bit hot running


----------



## FooFighter (Oct 31, 2022)

Wondering what low voltage inputs you are using.
With High gain on OOR with Susvara running out of Holo Spring 3 KTE balanced I couldn't go past 1 o'clock or blast my ears, guess LCD-5 is far easier to drive.

But regarding the bass impact it might well be that there are better amps for that.
I remember @krude also mentioned that the slam was bigger on GT and stage wider but nevertheless the depth and sense of music was better on OOR.
I am using HQPLAYER filters instead of the expensive Chord stack with filters like Poly-sinc-xtr-mp2 and NS5 shaper for Rock and Indie music with good results for slam with Solitaire P  but it's surely a matter of the headphone in the first place and according synergy.
The topic with lean Susvara is as old as the headphone and in general I haven't people seen raving about its bass unless been driven out of powerful speaker amps or dual mono AHB2s and still then it's not the headphone for that.
That's why a felt 50% of Susvara thread owners are owning TC in parallel 😉


----------



## krude (Oct 31, 2022)

Annarob1947 said:


> Im understanding you well, i have Lcd5,  with Oor and Hypsos I need 3 0,clock on high gain with XLR  headphones cable.
> I decided as i have Chord Qutest and Anni also Mscaler,  i would comparec5o Chord Anni  instead.
> Bass is great, lots of weight and fast slam, this on low gain at 2 o'clock volume.
> Ferrum stack by comparison is rather boring i feel , will be keeping Chord set up, one point, you need stands with Anni, otherwise shes a bit hot running


Ferrum with planars really needs a balanced DAC to shine. With Susvara you would not go above 11 o clock on day to day basis unless you want to damage your hearing. Oor is rated for 8w per channel into 60 Ohm so around 60w into 8 Ohm while Anni is 10w into 8 and only single ended.

That's just an explanation of why you thought Ferrum is underpowered in your system. It would fly with Dave for example. But you also did the right thing, listened to your ears and went for synergy in your stack, and that's the most important thing.

Fully burned in Ferrum and Susvara on 22v and high gain has plenty of bass. I haven't use the Sus with AHB2 but I get superb dynamics and slam, plenty of bass etc. Ofc Utopia and TC have a bit more slam and macro, but Susvava on May and Ferrum is pretty endgame. GT had the stage advantage over Oor but Oor beat it for me in everything else.


----------



## krude

Re headphones for genres I honesly use Susvara 85% of the time for everything. Utopia and TC are on the same level overall but Susvara just does everything well and it's easy and comfortable. And I listen to electronica, rock, metal, jazz, acoustic and all sorts. Susvara excells for classical, accoustic and classic rock for me. TC and Utopia are marginally better for electronica and metal.

All 3 are great and I think anyone with May and Ferrum would be really happy with either. (Some people hate the tonality on TC tho, but some people love it and think it's the best)


----------



## Somatic

So with reluctance I sold the Ferrum stack and purchased a Feliks Envy. Wait time is 1-2 months. In the meantime listening to the Solo Dave + Farad3 on the HP out with the Atriums.

I now notice a distinctive decrease in note weight, bass has decreased, a lot of the slam/punch has been lost and it is less emotive. Ferrum stack + SR Purples are marvelous. Hope I like the Envy as much.


----------



## krude

Somatic said:


> So with reluctance I sold the Ferrum stack and purchased a Feliks Envy. Wait time is 1-2 months. In the meantime listening to the Solo Dave + Farad3 on the HP out with the Atriums.
> 
> I now notice a distinctive decrease in note weight, bass has decreased, a lot of the slam/punch has been lost and it is less emotive. Ferrum stack + SR Purples are marvelous. Hope I like the Envy as much.


Do let us know how Envy compares to Ferrum 🍻


----------



## Somatic

krude said:


> Do let us know how Envy compares to Ferrum 🍻


I really liked the Ferrum stack. It is like a gateway drug. That bit of warmth, euphony, mid forward, smooth treble caused me to seek more of this. So thought a TOTL tube amp will do the trick. Will definitely let everyone know.


----------



## krude

Somatic said:


> I really liked the Ferrum stack. It is like a gateway drug. That bit of warmth, euphony, mid forward, smooth treble caused me to seek more of this. So thought a TOTL tube amp will do the trick. Will definitely let everyone know.


Im eyeing Envy since it came out as well  just need to have a fair chunk of disposable income first 😅 another amp in that price bracket would be Accuphase e380 ...


----------



## Somatic

FooFighter said:


> Wondering what low voltage inputs you are using.
> With High gain on OOR with Susvara running out of Holo Spring 3 KTE balanced I couldn't go past 1 o'clock or blast my ears, guess LCD-5 is far easier to drive.
> 
> But regarding the bass impact it might well be that there are better amps for that.
> ...


Yes, people keep trying to turn the Susvara into what it is not. Sure you can get some punch/slam but it's no Solitaire/TC. Off the AHB2 it did sound good but I remember wanting to try dual mono setup because I was still not getting enough bass.

I think switching DAC and adding good clean power helped more in getting bass from Susvara than a speaker amp.


----------



## krude

Somatic said:


> Yes, people keep trying to turn the Susvara into what it is not. Sure you can get some punch/slam but it's no Solitaire/TC. Off the AHB2 it did sound good but I remember wanting to try dual mono setup because I was still not getting enough bass.
> 
> I think switching DAC and adding good clean power helped more in getting bass from Susvara than a speaker amp.


Well I don't want to brag but May -> Ferrum 22v -> HA6a with fairly warm tubes sounds pretty endgame with Susvara. 

That's why I'm tempted to compare HA6a with Envy (or HA300 as a 300b alternative).


----------



## Somatic

krude said:


> Well I don't want to brag but May -> Ferrum 22v -> HA6a with fairly warm tubes sounds pretty endgame with Susvara.
> 
> That's why I'm tempted to compare HA6a with Envy (or HA300 as a 300b alternative).


Oooh. I'm happy to hear. Heard the Envy Susvara synergy is very good. I ended up getting the Elrog ER300b and some Melz 1578s. Supposedly this is god tier in the tube world. So we shall see how it goes. If I can get more punch and slam/note weight from Susvara while still retaining its great soundstage that will be end game.


----------



## SlothRock

Somatic said:


> Yes, people keep trying to turn the Susvara into what it is not. Sure you can get some punch/slam but it's no Solitaire/TC. Off the AHB2 it did sound good but I remember wanting to try dual mono setup because I was still not getting enough bass.
> 
> I think switching DAC and adding good clean power helped more in getting bass from Susvara than a speaker amp.



Agreed with this - I don't understand the criticisms on Susvara's bass when my Spring 3 and Ferrum OOR are powering it. And I'd consider myself a pretty dang basshead! Does it slam AS much as my Verite Closed? Well no - it's an open back vs. closed back for one, but I actually enjoy the Susvara bass way more. It goes deeper, the bass is clearer and the slam is more than sufficient for my purposes. I can imagine it being even crazier on a tube amp like the Envy


----------



## krude

SlothRock said:


> Agreed with this - I don't understand the criticisms on Susvara's bass when my Spring 3 and Ferrum OOR are powering it. And I'd consider myself a pretty dang basshead! Does it slam AS much as my Verite Closed? Well no - it's an open back vs. closed back for one, but I actually enjoy the Susvara bass way more. It goes deeper, the bass is clearer and the slam is more than sufficient for my purposes. I can imagine it being even crazier on a tube amp like the Envy


For what it's worth having Utopia, TC and Susvara at an arms length I also use Susvara the most on day to day, and I do like my bass : )


----------



## duffer5 (Nov 2, 2022)

Hello Team Ferrum,

I am in need of your expertise.  I reached out to Ferrum to understand what the input sensitivity of the Oor is and I was told it is 4vRMS.  Now me not being an engineer I am trying to go from vRMS to mV so I can best set the max output of my DAC's preout.

So please see the image below and based on the numbers,  this is what I think is correct.  "The Oor based on a 4.0 vRMS input sensitivity can handle up to 11 volts or 11000 mV from the output of my DAC via the preout."

Is this correct?  If so good for me for figuring it out, LOL and wow the Oor with it's input sensitivity of 4 vRMS is a beast. I also included an image of my DAC's preout options as I am still trying to hone in on what is optimal. 

Thanks.


----------



## TheR0v3r

TheR0v3r said:


> I wrote this in the Lcd-4 thread (should have added that I’m using the Ferrum stack!):
> 
> As I sat there listening to an album I’ve heard a ”million times” and yet I was hearing it for the first time. Reconnecting to music in this way is just such a joy.
> 
> PS. After several years of owning and trying different planars I decided on the LCD-4’s as my endgame and bought one of the last(?) pairs. In the end it stod between Susvara, LCD-4 and LCD-5.


I wrote the above post in the last days of August. Come November and my endgame LCD-4's are gone, it was my endgame for about a month or two .

But the Ferrum stack is still around - I love everything about it. The tuning, the ability to adjust output voltage and gain are things I just can't see myself living without now. It's just such a wonderful experience to listen to music through it!


----------



## duffer5 (Nov 4, 2022)

duffer5 said:


> Hello Team Ferrum,
> 
> I am in need of your expertise.  I reached out to Ferrum to understand what the input sensitivity of the Oor is and I was told it is 4vRMS.  Now me not being an engineer I am trying to go from vRMS to mV so I can best set the max output of my DAC's preout.
> 
> ...


I reached out to the Ferrum support (Poland) to get some clarity.

First, let me say the HEM / Ferrum group is very responsive, supportive and informative.  I am very impressed.

Second, they provided me some clarity and helpful info that I thought I would share with the group regarding preout settings (source) and input sensitivity of the OOR.

* The OOR has a input sensitivity of 4vrms or 4 volts (according to Ferrum support)

 *****Someone please correct me if Ferrum is wrong but I don't think 1vrms is = to 1 volt.  I am thinking that if the input sensitivity of the OOR is 4vrms then it is actually closer to 12 volts not 4 volts.  Which would give me a wider ceiling for my preout*****


 *The OOR does not have automatic attenuation. If the input signal is too large to be handled by the input stage, the signal will be distorted.


Me: "My DAC recommends setting the DAC preout as high as possible which in this case would be 6500mV or 6.5 V which in the case of the Ferrum and the way it handles input audio signals this would be way too much.  I assume that the reasoning behind this is it is better to amplifier a larger source signal that have the amplifier (Ferrum) amplifier the signal through increased volume???

Ferrum: "The maths behind it is complicated but in general it is easy "As high as possible" but not for the DAC to output but for the connected device's input. It is OK to have a lot of power but when it is too much to handle for another device input stage the sound would be terrible.  All inputs in all audio devices have their own tolerances and optimal level for proper operation.  I'm pretty sure that if you would set Rose to even lower settings there would be enough volume for your ears"


----------



## Somatic

duffer5 said:


> I reached out to the Ferrum support (Poland) to get some clarity.
> 
> First, let me say the HEM / Ferrum group is very responsive, supportive and informative.  I am very impressed.
> 
> ...


I had no issues at 6V as that is what the Dave was outputting. To me this is needed for higher to drive headphones such as Susvara? Any one running Susvara off 4V DAC adequately? Thanks ...


----------



## SlothRock

No issues with 5.8Vrms coming from my Spring 3 into the Ferrum but this IS one reason I’m interested in the new Holo Audio Bliss and thinking about comparing the two…the Bliss is even more powerful and 100% will have no issues with a 5.8Vrms input since their DACs all output that or higher.

 Again, tho, no issues with my OOR + Hypsos with my spring 3 but I did have some with my Euforia and had to turn the output down using software (I don’t have the preamp version)


----------



## FooFighter

SlothRock said:


> No issues with 5.8Vrms coming from my Spring 3 into the Ferrum but this IS one reason I’m interested in the new Holo Audio Bliss and thinking about comparing the two…the Bliss is even more powerful and 100% will have no issues with a 5.8Vrms input since their DACs all output that or higher.
> 
> Again, tho, no issues with my OOR + Hypsos with my spring 3 but I did have some with my Euforia and had to turn the output down using software (I don’t have the preamp version)


Is the Bliss finally out?


----------



## SlothRock

FooFighter said:


> Is the Bliss finally out?



Another week or two. If you look at the Bliss thread, they finally have one of the professional photos up of the KTE version and Tim said it would take two more weeks from October 31st before the listing will be up for initial orders.


----------



## SlothRock (Nov 4, 2022)

Wrong thread


----------



## duffer5 (Nov 5, 2022)

Made it through the entire thread. Great info and I appreciate the helpful input from the group.  Officially a Ferrum OOR / Hypsos owner thanks to a fellow Head-fi member. 

Happy Listening....


----------



## Andrewteee

duffer5 said:


> Made it through the entire thread. Great info and I appreciate the helpful input from the group.  Officially a Ferrum OOR / Hypsos owner thanks to a fellow Head-fi member.
> 
> Happy Listening....


Nice! The Ferrum pair is really fantastic. 

What is your chair? I’m looking for a new one. My older IKEA chair looks similar; it was cheap, served me well and is comfortable but I’m looking to upgrade.


----------



## duffer5 (Nov 5, 2022)

Andrewteee said:


> Nice! The Ferrum pair is really fantastic.
> 
> What is your chair? I’m looking for a new one. My older IKEA chair looks similar; it was cheap, served me well and is comfortable but I’m looking to upgrade.


That is the Ikea chair just with the leather cushion.  The cushion makes a difference for comfort and longevity.  Does not wear out.


----------



## krude (Nov 5, 2022)

duffer5 said:


> Made it through the entire thread. Great info and I appreciate the helpful input from the group.  Officially a Ferrum OOR / Hypsos owner thanks to a fellow Head-fi member.
> 
> Happy Listening....



+1 for Focal headband mod and Sus 

With Sus I would consider a different stand. The depth of the pads plays a major role in soundstage for many sets and Susvara suffers from flattening pads anyway. I actually put thin rolls of paper towel and stuffed them inside the pads to "inflate" them a bit 😂


----------



## duffer5

krude said:


> +1 for Focal headband mod and Sus
> 
> With Sus I would consider a different stand. The depth of the pads plays a major role in soundstage for many sets and Susvara suffers from flattening pads anyway. I actually put thin rolls of paper towel and stuffed them inside the pads to "inflate" them a bit 😂


Thanks for the insight, what stand(s) do you recommened?


----------



## krude (Nov 5, 2022)

duffer5 said:


> Thanks for the insight, what stand(s) do you recommened?


Any that won't put pressure on the pads. There's plenty of examples in pics from this thread. I have a relatively cheap "New Bee" aluminum stand but it does the job. Ofc you can pay more for a nicer one.


----------



## duffer5

krude said:


> Any that won't put pressure on the pads. There's plenty of examples in pics from this thread. I have a relatively cheap "New Bee" aluminum stand but it does the job. Ofc you can pay more for a nicer one.


Perfect, thank you.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

krude said:


> Any that won't put pressure on the pads. There's plenty of examples in pics from this thread. I have a relatively cheap "New Bee" aluminum stand but it does the job. Ofc you can pay more for a nicer one.



I have a friend that created a stand with three pegs on it for his Susvaras. One to hang them from and then lower on each side for the yokes to rest against that keeps the pads about a centimeter apart specifically to deal with the "pad collapse" problem, as he calls it. It actually works really well and I think it would be a fairly doabl project for anyone who might be interested. Just food for thought.


----------



## TheFrator

duffer5 said:


> Perfect, thank you.


Etsy is a pretty solid place to look for headphone stands. I got a wooden one with 4 hooks for $90 earlier this year.


----------



## plumpudding2

I contacted Ferrum support to ask if the Oor was able to accept the 10.94 Volts my RME ADI-2 Pro puts out in DSD mode:



It's a shame they don't put this in the manual, but I guess there aren't really any devices that output a signal above 24 dbU/12 Volts anyway so if the Oor accepts that then it accepts everything.
I think in generally you'd want to feed an amp as hot a signal as possible for maximizing signal-to-noise ratio.


----------



## duffer5

plumpudding2 said:


> I contacted Ferrum support to ask if the Oor was able to accept the 10.94 Volts my RME ADI-2 Pro puts out in DSD mode:
> 
> It's a shame they don't put this in the manual, but I guess there aren't really any devices that output a signal above 24 dbU/12 Volts anyway so if the Oor accepts that then it accepts everything.
> I think in generally you'd want to feed an amp as hot a signal as possible for maximizing signal-to-noise ratio.


This is super helpful.  This is the answer I was looking for.  I think my point of contact with Ferrum was confusing Vrms and Volts.  Your answer makes much more sense especially since input impedance is 94,000 Ohms.  Thank you for the reply.


----------



## plumpudding2

duffer5 said:


> This is super helpful.  This is the answer I was looking for.  I think my point of contact with Ferrum was confusing Vrms and Volts.  Your answer makes much more sense especially since input impedance is 94,000 Ohms.  Thank you for the reply.


You've made me double check my numbers, the excel sheet a helpful user on the RME forums submitted for calculating output levels said Volts in the comments, but upon closer inspection of the ADI-2 Pro's manual its 23 dbU output corresponds to  10.94 Vrms, which means 15.47 Vpeak. 
Your own correspondence with Ferrum had them state a maximum input voltage of 11 Vpeak (Not Vrms!!) so I'm actually overloading the input it seems.. 11 Volts peak corresponds to 7.78 Vrms and 20.04 dbU, so I will have to apply 3db of digital attenuation.


----------



## plumpudding2

Ah I did however state in my original support issue that it was 10.94 Vrms:




So either your or my contact with Ferrum seems to have mixed up Vrms and Vpeak. We're in limbo again as these two support responses conflict with each other.


----------



## duffer5 (Nov 7, 2022)

plumpudding2 said:


> Ah I did however state in my original support issue that it was 10.94 Vrms:
> 
> So either your or my contact with Ferrum seems to have mixed up Vrms and Vpeak. We're in limbo again as these two support responses conflict with each other.


This is the latest I got today. Still not 100% sure.


“The 4Vrms is 5.64V average and 11.28 peak to peak - this is what I learned from our R&D engineers. I asked about what kind of volts Rose gives

If there is no problem with 6.5V - go for it”


----------



## Andrewteee

I set my DAC to output 6v into the Oor with my harder to drive headphones and it does fine. I switch it back to 2v for the Meze Elites.


----------



## FooFighter

Holo Audio Spring doesn't offer variable settings in the non preamp version.
I am running their hot input into Oor and running everything up to Meze Elite and even IEMs like Supermoon and EXT and Indigo in standard gain and low volume wheel position.
Sounds fantastic.


----------



## SlothRock

Just so y'all know, I ordered the new Holo Audio Bliss and intend to compare to the OOR + Hypsos. I have 0 issues with my current setup but I am drawn to the increased power of the Bliss and, honestly, the ability to really clean up my desk by stacking it on my Spring 3 so I actually have some more space available. This will be the toughest amp showdown for me as I'll be deciding which to keep. I'll throw in my opinions once it arrives and I'm able to have ample play time on both


----------



## duffer5

SlothRock said:


> Just so y'all know, I ordered the new Holo Audio Bliss and intend to compare to the OOR + Hypsos. I have 0 issues with my current setup but I am drawn to the increased power of the Bliss and, honestly, the ability to really clean up my desk by stacking it on my Spring 3 so I actually have some more space available. This will be the toughest amp showdown for me as I'll be deciding which to keep. I'll throw in my opinions once it arrives and I'm able to have ample play time on both


I look forward to your impressions.  Did you get the upgraded or standard Holo Audio Bliss?


----------



## SlothRock

I got the KTE Bliss


----------



## duffer5

SlothRock said:


> I got the KTE Bliss


Nicely done, sounds like the upgrade is worth it.


----------



## arpasquill

For my very first post I just wanted to say thank you for all of the amazing posts in this (extensive) thread. (I've read every page!)

A stack was being sold here in Sydney for a very attractive price and I was close to pulling the trigger (until I saw the news about the Holo Bliss). 

I feel that I have had one of these stacks for years now due to the knowledge and support of members so maybe I'll pick one up once the Bliss comes out for a good price


----------



## ozziegurkan

Currently jamming to a Diana V2 (demo courtesy of Mike@WooAudio) hooked up to the Ferrum stack fed by the Holo Spring3 and HQPlayer. Never heard an Abyss before. This reminds me a little bit of LCD-5, vocals forward, not bass-heavy, but you can feel the sub-bass. Its a super clean and resolving headphone for such a tiny footprint. Of course, the OOR is delivering the sweet power at High 10 o'clock. This thing needs juice.


----------



## SlothRock

Since I got rid of my tube amp I was able to tidy up my desk and rearrange the OOR/Hypsos with my spring 3. Looks nice and tidy now


----------



## arpasquill

SlothRock said:


> Since I got rid of my tube amp I was able to tidy up my desk and rearrange the OOR/Hypsos with my spring 3. Looks nice and tidy now


That is my dream setup - HOWEVER I'm very keen to hear your impressions of the Bliss, and if reviews are what I hope them to be, then I think a purchase of the Spring 3 and Bliss will be my 2023 New Year present to myself!


----------



## Somatic (Nov 7, 2022)

Been using Dave's HP out after getting used to the Ferrum stack. I find it too bright for me. Need some warmth back in my chain. 

Edit: I did notice that soundstage width get wider with the Dave HP out. Loses a bit of note weight. Sub bass seems better on my Dave + Farad3 HP out. Bass is more tight on the Dave. I think the Ferrum added a bit more mid bass which was nice as well.


----------



## cglin222

Pretty happy with my rig, sr purple on the 3 gustards


----------



## TheFrator

cglin222 said:


> Pretty happy with my rig, sr purple on the 3 gustards


What's the device on the very top?


----------



## cglin222

TheFrator said:


> What's the device on the very top?


ifi neo stream!


----------



## duffer5 (Nov 11, 2022)

krude said:


> +1 for Focal headband mod and Sus
> 
> With Sus I would consider a different stand. The depth of the pads plays a major role in soundstage for many sets and Susvara suffers from flattening pads anyway. I actually put thin rolls of paper towel and stuffed them inside the pads to "inflate" them a bit 😂


Well thanks to @krude the new headphone stand has arrived (sooner than expected).  I think the setup is complete (for now, LOL!)


----------



## TheR0v3r (Nov 11, 2022)

So I’ve spent some time and (alot) of money lowering the noise floor and enjoying the benefit it has brought to my system. Some of the benefits are an increased ability to retrieve low level detail, better definition of ”space” and improved sense of layering. Technically it’s been accomplished by adding a power distributor and new power cables to the system.

Things start to get interesting when describing the improvements using the Ferrum stack as lens. The benefits of a lower noise floor manifests itself as improved soundstage, faster transient response, better sub bas and overall tigher bass.

As I’ve written before I find the Ferrum OOR (with the Hypsos!) to be an exceptional headphone amplifier. If you enjoy the tonality but want to improve for example soundstage width, ”punch and slam” or bass definition I highly recommend experimenting with ”cleaner power” (lowering the noise floor). Try it before moving on to another amp - it’s worth it !


----------



## Somatic

TheR0v3r said:


> So I’ve spent some time and (alot) of money lowering the noise floor and enjoying the benefit it has brought to my system. Some of the benefits are an increased ability to retrieve low level detail, better definition of ”space” and improved sense of layering. Technically it’s been accomplished by adding a power distributor and new power cables to the system.
> 
> Things start to get interesting when describing the improvements using the Ferrum stack as lens. The benefits of a lower noise floor manifests itself as improved soundstage, faster transient response, better sub bas and overall tigher bass.
> 
> As I’ve written before I find the Ferrum OOR (with the Hypsos!) to be an exceptional headphone amplifier. If you enjoy the tonality but want to improve for example soundstage width, ”punch and slam” or bass definition I highly recommend experimenting with ”cleaner power” (lowering the noise floor). Try it before moving on to another amp - it’s worth it !


Could a power distributor be a positive or a negative depending on how clean/dirty someone's power is? But you found it to be an improvement across the board? Thanks


----------



## shafat777

Anyone interested in parting ways with their Hyspos + OOR? I would love to own a set and am willing to trade two of my amps for it. Please let me know if interested.


----------



## incredulousity

I actually want a Hypsos without OOR for other nefarious purposes, should someone want to sell one.


----------



## Somatic

incredulousity said:


> I actually want a Hypsos without OOR for other nefarious purposes, should someone want to sell one.


Hypsos is great. Can power so many units. What are you thinking of powering?


----------



## incredulousity

Tube heater current taps.


----------



## TheR0v3r (Nov 12, 2022)

Somatic said:


> Could a power distributor be a positive or a negative depending on how clean/dirty someone's power is? But you found it to be an improvement across the board? Thanks


It’s positive regardless of the quality of someone’s power. It lowers the noise floor across the board. Looking at your system I’d guess that the effect of adding a power conditioner is probably something like using the Farad 3, but system-wide. 

My suggestion, if possible, is to loan a unit. That’s what I did (or actually my dealer asked my to try it in my system). I was looking at adding another amp to complement the Ferrum stack, but he insisted I try a power conditioner first. It proved to be excellent advice. 

P.S. Just to be clear, I have zero experience of power conditioners in general.


----------



## TheFrator

This is probably off topic but I spoke with a Ferrum employee yesterday at Capital Audio Fest about their upcoming DAC. It'll be called the "Wandler" (German word for "converter") and is planned to be based on a dual ESS 9038 Pro topology. Also mentioned something about HQPlayer and 5 filters but I can't remember the nuances of that topic , sorry. He said the price would be $2995 and 1 Hypsos can power both it and the Oor- Ferrum makes a cable splitter (https://ferrum.audio/product/power-splitter/ ). 

Idk if the price is subject to change, but $3k for a DAC is Holo Spring 3 KTE money. So they should really hope to achieve something with this.


----------



## kenjamin0523

Hi guys, I have got my Burson soloist 3x GT for months. Now wanna try something new. If anyone has Ferrum O+H stack wanna trade with my 3x GT can feel free to pm me for more details. My 3X GT comes with Supercharge (clean power), cool stand, 3 pairs top of opamps for rolling (V6 classic - 994s - S2590).
Thanks.


----------



## Somatic

incredulousity said:


> Tube heater current taps.


How do these work?


----------



## incredulousity

Somatic said:


> How do these work?


Very well, where I have used them. 

Or are you asking about the mechanism of their function?

In that case,

If there is a mismatch of required heater voltage, or if one wants to use tubes which require more heater current than one’s amp can safely provide, then it is necessary to use external power supply to tubes. This is accomplished by using custom sockets which are not connected to the DC voltage pins on the amp side, and the power to those pins on the tube is provided by external wires, which are connected to an external DC power source of appropriate voltage and power. I have such adapters and custom PS from @Deyan. Unfortunately, the PS boxes I have are pretty large, and I don’t need as many DC outputs for my present setup as I used to. I think the Hypsos would be an elegant solution here.


----------



## duas2noites

Anyone using ferrum stack with iems? I need to know about this pairing, if there is no problem to use ferrum oor with iems . If there is a problem, I will buy a portable amp, for desktop usage.


----------



## krude

duas2noites said:


> Anyone using ferrum stack with iems? I need to know about this pairing, if there is no problem to use ferrum oor with iems . If there is a problem, I will buy a portable amp, for desktop usage.


No issues for me with Odins.


----------



## FooFighter (Nov 13, 2022)

krude said:


> No issues for me with Odins.


While I think it wasn't primarily built for IEMs like e.g Cayin C9 it's working very well with these but I wouldn't buy it for that use case alone but only if you are driving Full Size cans as @duas2noites  main use case.
I have been using it with Odins, VE EXT, Campfire Supermoon and UM Indigo.
Liked it most with Supermoon and Indigo so far.
Headphone output impedance of 0.3 Ohms is quite optimal too for IEMs and I think as usual the whole chain of DAC, amp and in that specific case IEM will matter for the right synergy.


----------



## plumpudding2

duas2noites said:


> Anyone using ferrum stack with iems? I need to know about this pairing, if there is no problem to use ferrum oor with iems . If there is a problem, I will buy a portable amp, for desktop usage.





GoldenSound did some measurements of the OOR seems to have concluded that, while not optimal, the OOR will handle iems fine too. I have the 7hz Timeless which I occasionally use (unbalanced) and no noise floor issues whatsoever.


----------



## DMITRIY R

Recently , a fairly large number of owners of orr + hypsos have appeared . Has anyone tried to compare the sound with hypsos and without it? Could you describe the difference? What is the difference and with which headphones and DAC have you tried. Thanks.
 I'm considering buying an orr, trying to figure out if I need hypsos.


----------



## duas2noites

DMITRIY R said:


> Recently , a fairly large number of owners of orr + hypsos have appeared . Has anyone tried to compare the sound with hypsos and without it? Could you describe the difference? What is the difference and with which headphones and DAC have you tried. Thanks.
> I'm considering buying an orr, trying to figure out if I need hypsos.


From headfonics review:

"The Ferrum OOR on its own is a very good solid-state analog headphone amplifier and preamp. However, paired with the HYPSOS PSU it becomes a great amplifier."


----------



## TheFrator

DMITRIY R said:


> Recently , a fairly large number of owners of orr + hypsos have appeared . Has anyone tried to compare the sound with hypsos and without it? Could you describe the difference? What is the difference and with which headphones and DAC have you tried. Thanks.
> I'm considering buying an orr, trying to figure out if I need hypsos.


Hey! I ran the Oor without the Hypsos for a few months then added the Hypsos. Here's a link to my impression of it - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ferrum-oor-headphone-amplifier-with-a-soul.958541/post-17159075


----------



## jlbrach

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I literally hate the fact that I hear a difference with the Hypsos lol! I have done expensive power supply tests before and heard nothing on some other amps that shall remain nameless so I was leaning towards the snake oil camp. However, when buying higher end gear, I always like to try out the configuration and complimentary equipment that the manufacturer claims will give the best performance and then make my mind up rather than writing it off from the beginning based on past results with other gear/manufacturers.
> 
> When I tried the Oor with and without the Hypsos the difference was pretty easily heard through the neo-prog playlist I had on at the time. It's not a "night and day" difference for me and the Oor is certainly a very capable amp without the Hypsos, but it is a clear difference and ultimately one worth the added cost given that I purchased the Oor seeking the absolute best performance for the headphones (DCA Stealths) that I bought seeking the same.


powerman makes a huge difference with the formula s ,the power supply makes a huge difference


----------



## JAnonymous5150

jlbrach said:


> powerman makes a huge difference with the formula s ,the power supply makes a huge difference



It absolutely does and I'd like to add that you don't have to have some crazy revealing headphones like the Stealth to hear the difference. I recently picked up a pair of Hifiman HE400is as a pair to use on the go and in my workshop. You can hear the difference in the Oor with and without the Hypsos with the HE400is easily as well. 

I completely stand by the post you quoted and would recommend that anyone who's looking at the Oor plan to buy the Hypsos too. Even if you have to buy the Oor and then save up to buy the Hypsos separately, it will be worth it in the end, IME.


----------



## Somatic

incredulousity said:


> Very well, where I have used them.
> 
> Or are you asking about the mechanism of their function?
> 
> ...


Hmm, sounds amazing. So for the Envy using the 6SN7 section as an example ... is there a type of tube after using an adapter that should not be used due to needing more heater current? And one can use the Hypsos and the custom sockets to make it work.

Wondering what would be the ideal option using the Envy as an example ... thanks.


----------



## incredulousity (Nov 13, 2022)

Somatic said:


> Hmm, sounds amazing. So for the Envy using the 6SN7 section as an example ... is there a type of tube after using an adapter that should not be used due to needing more heater current? And one can use the Hypsos and the custom sockets to make it work.
> 
> Wondering what would be the ideal option using the Envy as an example ... thanks.


I have adapters and powered sockets to use KTxx triode strapped pairs as dual triode to 6SN7, and powered 6SN7 adapters. This takes 6.2V power.

Alternatively, I can use ГУ-50 tubes in different combination of adapters, and run with 12.4V power.

Also with 12V power, the 12V analogues to 6SN7 are in play.

For Envy, it’s important to remember that  both triodes of 6SN7 are used, so single triode strapped tetrodes and pentodes are a no-no. They have to be used in pairs on an appropriate adapter. This is not necessary for Elise/Euforia/AE.


----------



## 13candles

Aetherhole said:


> I posted this in the ERCO thread, but since this involves the OOR, it bears posting in here.  Not sure who out there is using the Ferrum Trifecta yet, but the OOR just came in and…


And hows that stack running your Susvaras? Looks sick if i may add....


----------



## krude

I recently moved back from Susvara to TC, and while 1266 TC is really good on tubes (HA6a in my case), it really flies on the Ferrum stack. It's interesting that Oor was developed with Susvara in mind and while it drives Sus really well, it absolutely nails the TC. TC is a really sharp headphone and H+O doesn't blunt it, so it will punish any sharp recording ... play well recorded music however and it is sublime. Sharp, articulate, but not fatiguing  or overdone treble, spacious mids with incredible clarity and separation with tight and pounding bass, that has all the texture you'd ever want ... and all of that on 0db gain with plenty of headroom.

System : May -> (balanced) -> Oor + Hypsos (22v) -> (balanced ofc) -> TC

Oor may not max out Susvara, but to my ears it pretty much maxes out the TC.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

krude said:


> I recently moved back from Susvara to TC, and while 1266 TC is really good on tubes (HA6a in my case), it really flies on the Ferrum stack. It's interesting that Oor was developed with Susvara in mind and while it drives Sus really well, it absolutely nails the TC. TC is a really sharp headphone and H+O doesn't blunt it, so it will punish any sharp recording ... play well recorded music however and it is sublime. Sharp, articulate, but not fatiguing  or overdone treble, spacious mids with incredible clarity and separation with tight and pounding bass, that has all the texture you'd ever want ... and all of that on 0db gain with plenty of headroom.
> 
> System : May -> (balanced) -> Oor + Hypsos (22v) -> (balanced ofc) -> TC
> 
> Oor may not max out Susvara, but to my ears it pretty much maxes out the TC.



I just heard the TC on my Oor/Hypsos to Holo May KTE stack last week when my friend brought his TCs over. It was very impressive indeed! Even with the tuning not being my preference there is some undeniable chemistry/synergy in the TC-Oor pairing. I'm surprised I don't see more Abyss owners running the Oor/Hypsos stack. The only pairing I have heard thus far that I like more would be with the Stealth and Expanse, but I might be biased.


----------



## damascato

krude said:


> I recently moved back from Susvara to TC, and while 1266 TC is really good on tubes (HA6a in my case), it really flies on the Ferrum stack. It's interesting that Oor was developed with Susvara in mind and while it drives Sus really well, it absolutely nails the TC. TC is a really sharp headphone and H+O doesn't blunt it, so it will punish any sharp recording ... play well recorded music however and it is sublime. Sharp, articulate, but not fatiguing  or overdone treble, spacious mids with incredible clarity and separation with tight and pounding bass, that has all the texture you'd ever want ... and all of that on 0db gain with plenty of headroom.
> 
> System : May -> (balanced) -> Oor + Hypsos (22v) -> (balanced ofc) -> TC
> 
> Oor may not max out Susvara, but to my ears it pretty much maxes out the TC.


We have a very similar setup.

To start with oor and May have a fantastic synergy.

And I haven’t found a set of cans which doesn’t pair well with it.


----------



## krude (Nov 19, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I just heard the TC on my Oor/Hypsos to Holo May KTE stack last week when my friend brought his TCs over. It was very impressive indeed! Even with the tuning not being my preference there is some undeniable chemistry/synergy in the TC-Oor pairing. I'm surprised I don't see more Abyss owners running the Oor/Hypsos stack. The only pairing I have heard thus far that I like more would be with the Stealth and Expanse, but I might be biased.


TC is definitely not everyones cup of tea, some of my friends were disgusted by it, but most were floored and loved it.

One thing you can't deny is, there's nothing else like it. It's a completely unique experience.

My take on it is, that they aim for the "live concert" type of sound with it. There are many approaches to audio, some companies go for studio reference type of sound, some go for various colourations or "hifi" flavours, and some go for trying to give off the "live concert" type of presentation. For me with the TC they went for this last option ... and in my view they succeeded. Not everything works with it, there are quirks, but every time I put them on it's a sense of occasion ... and when a recording works with it on a good chain it's one of the best audio experiences I could ever wish for.


----------



## jlbrach

*some of my friends were disgusted by it*

disgusted lol?....kind of extreme dont you think?


----------



## Roasty

I agree with the posts above. the ferrum stack is a great pairing with the TC. that synergy is definitely there. it doesn't do the same for Susvara, so if those are your primary cans I'd look elsewhere.

am using the ferrum stack as a pre amp into my nad m23, so I can run in some gear (headphones/cables) without using up tube life on my tube pre. it does quite well as a pre, perfectly black background and more importantly sounds good (although the tube pre is my first choice).

bumping up the gain knob on the Ferrum is no big issue and I quite like high gain with the sr1b/TC, but prefer leaving it on med gain and instead bumping up the gain on the power amp from low to medium.

was intending to sell the ferrum stack but am considering keeping it as it allows for a hassle free quick and dirty listen as and when, without needing to wait for tubes to warm up.


----------



## FooFighter

Roasty said:


> I agree with the posts above. the ferrum stack is a great pairing with the TC. that synergy is definitely there. it doesn't do the same for Susvara, so if those are your primary cans I'd look elsewhere.
> 
> am using the ferrum stack as a pre amp into my nad m23, so I can run in some gear (headphones/cables) without using up tube life on my tube pre. it does quite well as a pre, perfectly black background and more importantly sounds good (although the tube pre is my first choice).
> 
> ...


Guess you are now using speaker TAPs for headphones out of the M23?


----------



## Roasty

FooFighter said:


> Guess you are now using speaker TAPs for headphones out of the M23?



sort of. speaker cables into a Zynsonix adaptor box.


----------



## krude

jlbrach said:


> *some of my friends were disgusted by it*
> 
> disgusted lol?....kind of extreme dont you think?


I had some pretty extreme reactions tbh with one mate of mine who's an audio electronics engineer and used to the "studio sound" literally ripped them off his head shouting that it's the worst thing he ever experienced sonically ... now I don't know, it also seemed a bit harsh but TC experience also depends on your head shape and we have completely different head shapes so maybe that's that, also some poeple can't take sharp treble of any kind, and TC has sharp treble, unless you intentionally blunt it with amplification, so he might've been very treble sensitive as well. 

Anyway, yes, it's pretty marmite from my experience. But most poeple I showed it to loved it more than any other set they've demoed and TC is definitely on par with any other set I've tried if not better, and definitely unique.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

krude said:


> I had some pretty extreme reactions tbh with one mate of mine who's an audio electronics engineer and used to the "studio sound" literally ripped them off his head shouting that it's the worst thing he ever experienced sonically ... now I don't know, it also seemed a bit harsh but TC experience also depends on your head shape and we have completely different head shapes so maybe that's that, also some poeple can't take sharp treble of any kind, and TC has sharp treble, unless you intentionally blunt it with amplification, so he might've been very treble sensitive as well.
> 
> Anyway, yes, it's pretty marmite from my experience. But most poeple I showed it to loved it more than any other set they've demoed and TC is definitely on par with any other set I've tried if not better, and definitely unique.



When you say marmite are you referring to those kitchenware containers? Is that some kind of slang I'm not understanding because I'm American? I had to ask...😂


----------



## krude

JAnonymous5150 said:


> When you say marmite are you referring to those kitchenware containers? Is that some kind of slang I'm not understanding because I'm American? I had to ask...😂


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marmite

It divides opinions like nothing else 😅


----------



## 1Audiophool

krude said:


> Anyway, yes, it's pretty marmite from my experience.





JAnonymous5150 said:


> When you say marmite are you referring to those kitchenware containers? Is that some kind of slang I'm not understanding because I'm American? I had to ask...😂





krude said:


> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marmite
> 
> It divides opinions like nothing else 😅


Not to be confused with “pretty marmot” which makes it even more confusing….


----------



## jlbrach

krude said:


> I had some pretty extreme reactions tbh with one mate of mine who's an audio electronics engineer and used to the "studio sound" literally ripped them off his head shouting that it's the worst thing he ever experienced sonically ... now I don't know, it also seemed a bit harsh but TC experience also depends on your head shape and we have completely different head shapes so maybe that's that, also some poeple can't take sharp treble of any kind, and TC has sharp treble, unless you intentionally blunt it with amplification, so he might've been very treble sensitive as well.
> 
> Anyway, yes, it's pretty marmite from my experience. But most poeple I showed it to loved it more than any other set they've demoed and TC is definitely on par with any other set I've tried if not better, and definitely unique.


there are always outliers for sure with any product but I would say the 1266 TC is one the most universally praised and reviewed HP I have seen and heard in my years of owning TOTL HP's


----------



## JAnonymous5150

krude said:


> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marmite
> 
> It divides opinions like nothing else 😅



Yeah, I had some of that yeast spread gunk when I lived in Germany (they had a brand called Vegemite). It was TERRIBLE! My roommate liked it and ate it all the time. All that to say, nice descriptor! It fits perfectly!


----------



## krude

jlbrach said:


> there are always outliers for sure with any product but I would say the 1266 TC is one the most universally praised and reviewed HP I have seen and heard in my years of owning TOTL HP's


I would agree, there are a lot of high profile reviewers that trash TC, describe it as wonky and distorted ... and to some degree they have a point, but I guess it all depends on preference in the end. I love my TC, and even more when paired with Oor.


----------



## ChJL

I've reached out to Ferrum already but ask anyone using a Hypos the following:

I'm sitting in a quiet room and after turning on the Hypos the device is kinda "loud", a distinct buzz, humming is noticable from even one meter away. When I "listen for it" I can notice it from even 2m away...

That doesn't seem right, right?
Thanks


----------



## Exekuhtor

Mine is dead silent...


----------



## SlothRock

Same - dead silent


----------



## kingoftown1

Same here, no noise.  Is the unit physically vibrating?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

ChJL said:


> I've reached out to Ferrum already but ask anyone using a Hypos the following:
> 
> I'm sitting in a quiet room and after turning on the Hypos the device is kinda "loud", a distinct buzz, humming is noticable from even one meter away. When I "listen for it" I can notice it from even 2m away...
> 
> ...



Nope, something isn't right.


----------



## ChJL

kingoftown1 said:


> Same here, no noise.  Is the unit physically vibrating?


Thanks to all! 
Wojtek asked me to turn off 4T sensing, no change...
Yeah doesn't seem right.
No vibration at all when putting my hand on it.
Better send it in...damn, no spare amp


----------



## Andrewteee

ChJL said:


> Thanks to all!
> Wojtek asked me to turn off 4T sensing, no change...
> Yeah doesn't seem right.
> No vibration at all when putting my hand on it.
> Better send it in...damn, no spare amp


You can use the Oor without the Hypsos. Are they concerned it's the pairing that's the issue? It's worth asking if you need to send both in for repair or if you can just send in the Hypsos. But perhaps they need both to track down the issue in case it's the Oor.


----------



## Andrewteee (Nov 28, 2022)

I would appreciate some feedback on the balanced HP connection on your Oor. I turned my system on today for the first time in over a week and for some time I could not get music to play through headphones. I did the usual turning things off and on, checking cable connections, checking sources. The Hypsos was registering the 6V input from my DAC, but no sound. It eventually resolved after more turning off/on and music plays now.

I noticed the balanced HP connections feels a little loose. It may have always been that way, I don't know. I never paid attention to it-- it's possible it was always this way and with the not playing issue I was looking for any potential causes. The connection is solid, but the connector has a slight wobble to it. And there was a very, very slight buzz in the left ear; the Oor has always been dead quiet.

I stepped away, then came back, turned things on, and things seem ok now, no buzz at all.

Last week someone may have knocked against the balanced cable connection and caused the issue. Just a hypothesis. I've pushed the Oor/Hypsos back into the rack since it's so shallow to avoid this issue in the future.

*I'm curious if your Oor balanced HP connection is super tight or if the connector has a slight wobble to it? *

Out of curiosity, if the connector got knocked and is slightly looser than it should be, is that kind of thing user serviceable? Is it just a matter of tightening the socket inside? Or is there probably more to it and a technician needs to do it? This would not be a warranty repair.

*UPDATE:* I contacted Ferrum and they said some wobble was normal. They were not concerned about my situation and said it's probably always been like that.


----------



## TheFrator

Andrewteee said:


> I'm curious if your Oor balanced HP connection is super tight or if the connector has a slight wobble to it?


Mine is tight with zero wobble.


----------



## Roasty

was listening to some music and then sound suddenly cut off. looks at the OOR and it showed the output voltage had dropped to 21v and there was not output power or output current reading (ie 0/zero).

had to bump up the voltage adjustment to 25.7v, and even then the output voltage on the OOR reads 22.6v (pics above). the Hypsos did come back to life though. 

does anyone know why the output voltage does not come close to the adjusted voltage?


----------



## plumpudding2 (Nov 24, 2022)

For me the actual voltage is always .2 V higher than what I set it to, but your case sounds much more serious.. I would contact Ferrum Support.


----------



## ChJL (Nov 25, 2022)

Andrewteee said:


> You can use the Oor without the Hypsos. Are they concerned it's the pairing that's the issue? It's worth asking if you need to send both in for repair or if you can just send in the Hypsos. But perhaps they need both to track down the issue in case it's the Oor.


I'll order an if power elite from Amazon to send back after the Hypsos will have been returned. Buzz comes from Hypsos, Oor gotta be fine.
Balanced HP out it solid, no connection issues, have to use both hands to pull out the connector.
Good Luck!


----------



## ChJL

Roasty said:


> was listening to some music and then sound suddenly cut off. looks at the OOR and it showed the output voltage had dropped to 21v and there was not output power or output current reading (ie 0/zero).
> 
> had to bump up the voltage adjustment to 25.7v, and even then the output voltage on the OOR reads 22.6v (pics above). the Hypsos did come back to life though.
> 
> does anyone know why the output voltage does not come close to the adjusted voltage?


Oh sorry to hear, but mine shows exactly what I set it to.


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## hypnos1 (Nov 27, 2022)

ChJL said:


> I'll order an if power elite from Amazon to send back after the Hypsos will have been returned. Buzz comes from Hypsos, Oor gotta be fine.
> Balanced HP out it solid, no connection issues, have to use both hands to pull out the connector.
> Good Luck!


Sorry to hear of your problem - with just Hypsos? Fortunately, such problems seem very rare . Hopefully it's remedied as quickly as possible. And it will be interesting to hear your impressions of how the ifi power compares with Hypsos...especially given the price difference lol! . One day I must try my economical Chinese "Ultra Low Noise" LPS unit (with separate Voltage converter) as stock PS replacement that transformed (massively) my experimental Drop THX AAA 'ONE' amp. However, I do love my Hypsos so much that I might just pass on that!!
Good luck!


----------



## lllkkkoo

Hello, just curious, what has been everyone's finding in for spread spectrum on/off? Voltage swings are slightly more audible, but i am not sure about spread spectrum.


----------



## Loose-Leaf

Andrewteee said:


> I would appreciate some feedback on the balanced HP connection on your Oor. I turned my system on today for the first time in over a week and for some time I could not get music to play through headphones. I did the usual turning things off and on, checking cable connections, checking sources. The Hypsos was registering the 6V input from my DAC, but no sound. It eventually resolved after more turning off/on and music plays now.
> 
> I noticed the balanced HP connections feels a little loose. It may have always been that way, I don't know. I never paid attention to it-- it's possible it was always this way and with the not playing issue I was looking for any potential causes. The connection is solid, but the connector has a slight wobble to it. And there was a very, very slight buzz in the left ear; the Oor has always been dead quiet.
> 
> ...


I never noticed this until you brought it up , mine is ever so loose but I think it’s completely normal variable fit .


----------



## Annarob1947

Andrewteee said:


> Some time ago I learned not to rush to sell things. Keep them around for a while as I might and often do revisit them. In time, you'll know if it's worth selling.
> 
> Looking at buying an Oor + Hypsos myself but haven't yet.


Hi, if you havent bought an Oor/ Hypsos combination yet ,i have a near new ,like 3 months old  for sale. Make me an offer.
I am preferring the Chord TT2,  i just bought. 
Im in Philippines,   am Australian so if interested let me know


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## krude (Dec 1, 2022)

Recently been on a journey to sell my Oor and Hypsos. I've decided to upgrade my HA6a (KT88 and EL34 based tube amp) to HA300 MK2 (300B based tube amp) and maybe get AHB2.

My main goal, more dynamics and bass from Susvara.

I put my Oor + Hypsos on sale ... packed my Ferrum away and started using HA6a a lot more, rolled some tubes, settled on a warm and fuzzy vintage sounding GL KT77 that I would describe as dynamic, bombastic, strong bass and vintage flavour. Then I rolled some highly regarded Black Treasure KT88-Z that were too solid state for my taste.

Few days pass, I roll some more tubes. Listen to KT77s a lot ... loving it, but the midrage is a bit muddy for some music and I'm like : ... what if I had more clarity in the midrange.

I started second-guessing my Ferrum decision, took it out again, stacked it this time (had it side by side on separate shelves before) ... let it warm up ... running HA6a "vintage bombastic" KT77 powered HA6a next to Ferrum ...

And then the revelation came ... Ferrum sounds A LOT like the KT77 vintage, full, "velvet hot chockolate" sound of the KT77, but with masterful midrange clarity!

... I was blown away, took Ferrum off eBay ...

I begin to be convinced that Ferrum stack, that after a year of usage became "old news" to me, is one of the TOTL Susvara (and other cans) experiences, offering something very unique indeed in the SS world. It's like a tube amp with ultimate clarity, but with the chockolatey, velvety sound tube lovers love. It's not a tube amp, HA6a on KT77 sounds different of course, but it's got that same magic with transparency and clarity that no tube will ever match ... that's why having both makes a lot of sense for people who love that full bodied, smooth sound.

Also it might be my imagination, but when stacked Oor on top of Hypsos it warms up differently and has more full bodied and warmer sound than with Hypsos on the left far away from Oor. It seems like it has more distortion after a warm up, but enjoyable type of distortion that makes things fuzzy and nice sounding : )


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## hypnos1 (Dec 1, 2022)

krude said:


> Recently been on a journey to sell my Oor and Hypsos. I've decided to upgrade my HA6a (KT88 and EL34 based tube amp) to HA300 MK2 (300B based tube amp) and maybe get AHB2.
> 
> My main goal, more dynamics and bass from Susvara.
> 
> ...


Hmmm....very interesting krude. And coincides with what I've been harping on about a fair bit for quite a while now lol! ...ie that the Ferrums fill in the only-too-often gaps in tube amplification - which I'm sure are only really addressed more successfully in mega-expensive tube units - while giving a very un-SS-like sound...(depending on the rest of the system of course). And at a very attractive/competetive price. IMHO, variable tube distortion is fine for those whose personal preferences _require_ it, but probaly not for those who, like me, rate better precision/accuracy/control and balanced FR reproduction more highly. Not to mention the kind of deathly black background that most tube amps can only dream of...and which allows me to turn up the volume far more than in my tube days without things beginning to go awry or destroying my eardums lol! ... (the Ferrums' dynamics handling is simply superb - for me, justifying on its own Hypsos's price tag).

Interesting also your take on the differences from positioning OOR and Hypsos. After initial stacking (with Hypsos atop) and with no _drastic_ untoward circumstances, I did in fact notice improvements across the board when sitting H, (and OOR) on solid oak platforms and with Oak cone feet (still stacked)...especially in detail retrieval, clarity and sublime separation/placement. But still very "smooth" and "warmish"...not coldly clinical..._wonderful! _


----------



## TheR0v3r

hypnos1 said:


> Hmmm....very interesting krude. And coincides with what I've been harping on about a fair bit for quite a while now lol! ...ie that the Ferrums fill in the only-too-often gaps in tube amplification - which I'm sure are only really addressed more successfully in mega-expensive tube units - while giving a very un-SS-like sound...(depending on the rest of the system of course). And at a very attractive/competetive price. IMHO, variable tube distortion is fine for those whose personal preferences _require_ it, but probaly not for those who, like me, rate better precision/accuracy/control and balanced FR reproduction more highly. Not to mention the kind of deathly black background that most tube amps can only dream of...and which allows me to turn up the volume far more than in my tube days without things beginning to go awry or destroying my eardums lol! ... (the Ferrums' dynamics handling is simply superb - for me, justifying on its own Hypsos's price tag).
> 
> Interesting also your take on the differences from positioning OOR and Hypsos. After initial stacking (with Hypsos atop) and with no _drastic_ untoward circumstances, I did in fact notice improvements across the board when sitting H, (and OOR) on solid oak platforms and with Oak cone feet (still stacked)...especially in detail retrieval, clarity and sublime separation/placement. But still very "smooth" and "warmish"...not coldly clinical..._wonderful! _


These kinds of discussions and insights are very interesting to me. What makes it extra interesting is thinking about system properties vs component properties, for example dynamics. 

Is a lack of "microdynamics" a property of my system or the headphone amp or both?


----------



## krude

TheR0v3r said:


> These kinds of discussions and insights are very interesting to me. What makes it extra interesting is thinking about system properties vs component properties, for example dynamics.
> 
> Is a lack of "microdynamics" a property of my system or the headphone amp or both?


It's a system property and a piece property, systems are made out of pieces right?

The more I get into audio the more I pay attention to dynamics in general and microdynamics in particular.

Starting from the headphone, the more "dynamic" the headphone ... or generally described as dynamic, the easier it is for this headphone to portray dynamics. 
Some high profile examples : TC - superbly dynamic, Utopia - superbly dynamic, HD800 - great dynamics in treble and midrange with weak bass dynamics, Susvara - great dynamics accross the range (not as good as TC and Utopia but still really strong) if driver ny powerful chain ...

Ok, now the same go for all pieces of the chain including the recording. Some recordings have great punch, some are flat and overcompressed.

Pieces can "suck" the dynamics out of the system, that's why it's better to start with as minimal system as possible but highest grade components, because otherwise you have no idea that something, like a pre-amp could be doing that. Even cables can do it, system that is not set up properly (like reverse phase), non-bit perfect digital, crap power / weak power supplies. 

Also dynamics range from bass, through mids to treble. Ideally you want strongest bass dynamics, then mids, then treble, all balanced but it's hardest to feel the bass. 
As a listener, find music that is recorded "hot" (high levels, compressed but not overdone) that has dynamic instruments hitting, like drums and bass hitting hard. Every hit doesn't matter if it's snare, hats, kick or bass hits should have physicality to it. Should make your head bob and feet tap. Dynamics make music fun : ) there's plenty of good music, I generally use undergound electronica that has copious amounts of bass and strong drums like Nphonix, Enei - Shadowdancer (L33 remix), Enei, Kasra, DRS - Overthinking, generally older Enei works have great dynamics and bass production, obv that's just my twisted taste in music 🤣


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## krude (Dec 2, 2022)

One more thing I recently noticed about my Oor experience, when I first got it my main and pretty much only criticism was that it had a smaller stage (I was comparing back then against Soloist GT, but also HA6a which being a tube amp also has an inherently bigger stage than most) in comparison.

A year on and I completely forgot about this complaint, only got reminded reading early Bliss impressions.

Did some comparisons yesterday running HA6a next to Oor and Oor has changed with burn in quite a lot I think. I was using 22v a lot because it sounded more relaxed than 24v with bigger stage and smoother treble. Now 24v is as relaxed sounding, treble smoothed off, bass opened up. stage opened up. Now I would be hard pressed to say that Oor has a smaller stage than HA6a (or Soloist GT from memory being comparable to HA6a at the time).

So the main drawback of Oor is gone with burn it it seems 🤷‍♂️


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## hypnos1 (Dec 3, 2022)

TheR0v3r said:


> These kinds of discussions and insights are very interesting to me. What makes it extra interesting is thinking about system properties vs component properties, for example dynamics.
> 
> Is a lack of "microdynamics" a property of my system or the headphone amp or both?


Hi TheR0v3r.

@krude has covered most aspects of your query pretty comprehensively methinks lol . And yes, _every_ part of the system is bound to either help, or hinder what finally enters our ears...not least the quality of (level of interference-laden) electicity source throughout!

Re. the term "Dynamic(s)", I myself feel that sometimes there's a little confusion over its(their) meaning...especially with regard to actual _detail_ resolution across the frequency range and its _balance_ from sub-bass to highest treble, and every harmonic/overtone inbetween. IMHO these form the essential basis for the (entire) system to then _deliver _the sound with equal energy right across said FR - and with _dynamism_, for an 'exciting' sound, as opposed to flat, dull and 'lifeless'. Lesser gear will try to fool the listener into perceiving "wonderful dynamics" by over-emphasising certain sections within the sound spectrum...a feature also, sad to say (but welcomed by some!), of many tubes .

And then of course there's the quite different aspect of "Dynamic _Range"_ presentation...how well the system handles/controls vast swings from the quietest/softest _ppp_ to loudest/"dynamic" _fff_ - especially while retaining maximum detail at low levels.

In conclusion, I'm glad to say that the Ferrum combo - _in my system_ - covers all these angles (and more!) with supreme mastery, and had expected to have to pay _far_ more to achieve such a level of performance...CHEERS!...


----------



## ChJL

@Exekuhtor @SlothRock @kingoftown1 @JAnonymous5150 
Once again... Since you 4 all said yours is dead silent I went ahead and measured the hypsos with a SPL meter. I just layed it on top of the unit, first turned off second turned on...right.
First measurement in a quiet room, around midnight, all other devices off and I got 34.6 dB
Second measurement, hypsos on, it gave me 37.5 dB

Wojtek from Ferrum said: "You must have really sensitive ears if you can hear 2.9 dB difference at this background level."
and that they cannot repeat that measurement...

Am I "hearing voices" 👽👺👻 from another realm? Am I trippin' broh?

Seriously, could someone lay his SPL meter on the hypos and repeat that?


----------



## ChJL

@hypnos1 
If I end up sending it in, I will let you know!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

ChJL said:


> @Exekuhtor @SlothRock @kingoftown1 @JAnonymous5150
> Once again... Since you 4 all said yours is dead silent I went ahead and measured the hypsos with a SPL meter. I just layed it on top of the unit, first turned off second turned on...right.
> First measurement in a quiet room, around midnight, all other devices off and I got 34.6 dB
> Second measurement, hypsos on, it gave me 37.5 dB
> ...



When I get home I will dig out my spl meter and give this a shot. That won't be for like 6+ hours though.


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## krude

ChJL said:


> @Exekuhtor @SlothRock @kingoftown1 @JAnonymous5150
> Once again... Since you 4 all said yours is dead silent I went ahead and measured the hypsos with a SPL meter. I just layed it on top of the unit, first turned off second turned on...right.
> First measurement in a quiet room, around midnight, all other devices off and I got 34.6 dB
> Second measurement, hypsos on, it gave me 37.5 dB
> ...


Mine is literally dead silent, and that’s how it should be.


----------



## TheR0v3r

hypnos1 said:


> Hi TheR0v3r.
> 
> @krude has covered most aspects of your query pretty comprehensively methinks lol . And yes, _every_ part of the system is bound to either help, or hinder what finally enters our ears...not least the quality of (level of interference-laden) electicity source throughout!
> 
> ...


Excellent posts from both you and @krude .

But first, let me just preface what I’m going to write by repeating that I totally agree that the Ferrum stack is a brilliant (as I’ve stated in earlier posts). This is me thinking about how the system could/should improve further and planing for 2023. 

Brilliant idea to use the language of music to explain dynamic range. Let me call the systems ability to handle and follow those swings for ”macrodynamics” and we use words like ”speed” and ”slam” to describe this. What I meant with ”microdynamics” was my systems (in)abilty to present the small ”musical details”, the low-level changes in dynamics. Maybe a word I could use to describe this is ”texture”? I want to hear more ”texture ”


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## FooFighter

For me texture is another word for detail in certain frequencies if for example talking about bass texture - unless the source isn't adding artificial grain being felt like texture like a V2 engine 😉


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## krude (Dec 2, 2022)

TheR0v3r said:


> Excellent posts from both you and @krude .
> 
> But first, let me just preface what I’m going to write by repeating that I totally agree that the Ferrum stack is a brilliant (as I’ve stated in earlier posts). This is me thinking about how the system could/should improve further and planing for 2023.
> 
> Brilliant idea to use the language of music to explain dynamic range. Let me call the systems ability to handle and follow those swings for ”macrodynamics” and we use words like ”speed” and ”slam” to describe this. What I meant with ”microdynamics” was my systems (in)abilty to present the small ”musical details”, the low-level changes in dynamics. Maybe a word I could use to describe this is ”texture”? I want to hear more ”texture ”


Right, microdynamics, textures being an example of ... the exact same goes as for macrodynamics. With microdynamics, again, you need to have a headphone (and cable) that is capable of displaying microdynamics well. TC with pretty much any cable is a champion from sets I've heard, it's so sharp you can cut yourself on those textures lol For Susvara and Utopia for example I bought highest grade pure silver cables to enhance microdetail and microdynamics, then these are not far behind the TC.

Rest of the chain needs to be punchy the same as with macrodynamics (so not dead and flat), but it also needs to be clean (clarity), and have as black background as possible. There is one tradeoff that I find with micro a lot, and it has to do with FR. Usually more upper mids / treble forward presentation tends to produce more texture (easier to hear texture) and microdetail, and more "romantic" darker presentation "hides" those details a bit. But treble / upper mid forwardness is less natural, can be grating and fatiguing. With tubes it's easy cause you can change the tubes depending on your mood, with SS I would rather go with easy FR rather than fatiguing. With Oor for me bumping the voltage to 26v and up sharpens things up to get the most textures and microdetail, but the sound is getting fatiguing for me and loses that ease, effortlessness and naturalness. Test track that I use for textures is ususally Agnes Obel - Aventine ... there's a cello playing in some sections that has very distinct bowed string texture.

Hope that helps : )


----------



## FooFighter

Actually high gain is doing the same for me without needing to change voltage on Hypsos but again it depends on Synergy 
With darker gear like Solitaire P I prefer higher gain and brighter gear like Elite mid gain


----------



## krude

FooFighter said:


> Actually high gain is doing the same for me without needing to change voltage on Hypsos but again it depends on Synergy
> With darker gear like Solitaire P I prefer higher gain and brighter gear like Elite mid gain


Yeah I started prioritising dynamics so I also use high gain with Susvara, but if I bump the voltage up it sharpens up the speed of microdynamics even more. I tend to stick to 24v for now though.


----------



## TheFrator

ChJL said:


> @Exekuhtor @SlothRock @kingoftown1 @JAnonymous5150
> Once again... Since you 4 all said yours is dead silent I went ahead and measured the hypsos with a SPL meter. I just layed it on top of the unit, first turned off second turned on...right.
> First measurement in a quiet room, around midnight, all other devices off and I got 34.6 dB
> Second measurement, hypsos on, it gave me 37.5 dB
> ...


Mine is dead silent. No change in SPL between when it's on vs. off


----------



## JAnonymous5150

JAnonymous5150 said:


> When I get home I will dig out my spl meter and give this a shot. That won't be for like 6+ hours though.



Okay so I just got home and my SPL meter registers no difference in the background noise level when the Hypsos is on and when it's off.


----------



## ChJL

TheFrator said:


> Mine is dead silent. No change in SPL between when it's on vs. off





JAnonymous5150 said:


> Okay so I just got home and my SPL meter registers no difference in the background noise level when the Hypsos is on and when it's off.



Great thanks! 
Alright, I guess I have to send it in at last... dead silent is what I expect of a top power supply!

I was just surprised that the guys at ferrum could not repeat that "measurement"


----------



## FooFighter

ChJL said:


> Great thanks!
> Alright, I guess I have to send it in at last... dead silent is what I expect of a top power supply!
> 
> I was just surprised that the guys at ferrum could not repeat that "measurement"


They couldn't repeat that measurement in general or did you send it there before and they couldn't reproduce?

Am no electrical engineer but could it also be related to local electricity issues?
Have you tried that test somewhere else in the house / another flat?


----------



## TheR0v3r

krude said:


> Right, microdynamics, textures being an example of ... the exact same goes as for macrodynamics. With microdynamics, again, you need to have a headphone (and cable) that is capable of displaying microdynamics well. TC with pretty much any cable is a champion from sets I've heard, it's so sharp you can cut yourself on those textures lol For Susvara and Utopia for example I bought highest grade pure silver cables to enhance microdetail and microdynamics, then these are not far behind the TC.
> 
> Rest of the chain needs to be punchy the same as with macrodynamics (so not dead and flat), but it also needs to be clean (clarity), and have as black background as possible. There is one tradeoff that I find with micro a lot, and it has to do with FR. Usually more upper mids / treble forward presentation tends to produce more texture (easier to hear texture) and microdetail, and more "romantic" darker presentation "hides" those details a bit. But treble / upper mid forwardness is less natural, can be grating and fatiguing. With tubes it's easy cause you can change the tubes depending on your mood, with SS I would rather go with easy FR rather than fatiguing. With Oor for me bumping the voltage to 26v and up sharpens things up to get the most textures and microdetail, but the sound is getting fatiguing for me and loses that ease, effortlessness and naturalness. Test track that I use for textures is ususally Agnes Obel - Aventine ... there's a cello playing in some sections that has very distinct bowed string texture.
> 
> Hope that helps : )


Always appreciate your posts @krude, thank you for sharing your knowledge 🙏 

I’ve bumped the voltage from my usual 23,7v to 26v. My first reaction is that this does exactly what you wrote, ”it sharpens things up to get the most textures and microdetails”. Let’s see if I can make it work, maybe there is a way to combine 26v with the ”ease, effortlessness and naturalness” from using 24v?


----------



## krude

TheR0v3r said:


> Always appreciate your posts @krude, thank you for sharing your knowledge 🙏
> 
> I’ve bumped the voltage from my usual 23,7v to 26v. My first reaction is that this does exactly what you wrote, ”it sharpens things up to get the most textures and microdetails”. Let’s see if I can make it work, maybe there is a way to combine 26v with the ”ease, effortlessness and naturalness” from using 24v?


Maybe, try different volages on the spectrum and see if you can hit the sweet spot for your system. Also you can go back and forth easily depending on the mood which is something not many pieces can do.


----------



## hypnos1

TheR0v3r said:


> Excellent posts from both you and @krude .
> 
> But first, let me just preface what I’m going to write by repeating that I totally agree that the Ferrum stack is a brilliant (as I’ve stated in earlier posts). This is me thinking about how the system could/should improve further and planing for 2023.
> 
> Brilliant idea to use the language of music to explain dynamic range. Let me call the systems ability to handle and follow those swings for ”macrodynamics” and we use words like ”speed” and ”slam” to describe this. What I meant with ”microdynamics” was my systems (in)abilty to present the small ”musical details”, the low-level changes in dynamics. Maybe a word I could use to describe this is ”texture”? I want to hear more ”texture ”


OK, so it's _*fine detail*_ resolution and the system's ability to deliver it with good energy/dynamics within a well balanced frequency range that determine "texture"....especially at lower listening levels I would add.

This is just another of our "audiophile" terms that has taken me a (frustratingly!) long time to really get a handle on, and has only recently become more clear at last. 
My own journey to experience them as best I can - wallet permitting - has ranged from tackling mains power optimisation right through to all fuses needed. Assuming highly resolving gear in situ (and clean power), I personally feel that the cables used are a major factor especially in regard to said micro detail retrieval...having progressed from OFC copper, thru (soft-annealed) pure silver to mono crystal OCC silver (often combined with OCC copper - both _solid_) - using in particular Neotech's wire(s). I rate this wire unsurpassed in resolution capability, thus ideal for fine detail. And as an antidote to @krude 's mention of high microdetail possibly reducing "warmth", I find that mixing OCC silver wire with copper (separately) helps minimise this tendency - especially if cable construction is also _dualled _(less EMI/RFI), and stretching to all _power_ cables as well as ICs if at all possible! . (Here, DIY - or a _very_ good friend's, can mean £$thousands saved!!).

 And regardless of whether or not one likes the "Chord sound", Rob Watts's lifetime obsession with transient handling (especially via such as mscaler) certainly pays dividends in this realm of detail and "texture" IMHO. But perhaps my biggest surprise here especially came with finally changing source from Antipodes DX to the (slightly modded) Denon DCD 1600 NE (SA)CD player, as mentioned previously. From what was simply a wonderfully _solid_, _extended_ bass overall, certain tracks - especially with sub-bass, now had extra _character _and _depth_...more _layers_, if you will. And which also spread further into/around the stage...delicious. The same held for bow on cello strings - fine harmonics detail galore lol! And now "texture" has much greater meaning for me..._eureka!_ .

In conclusion therefore, I propose that the Ferrum combo does indeed have immense _potential_ for greatness in this particular area, along with many others...

And so I wish you - and everyone else, good luck in achieving similar revelations...


----------



## hypnos1

ChJL said:


> Great thanks!
> Alright, I guess I have to send it in at last... dead silent is what I expect of a top power supply!
> 
> I was just surprised that the guys at ferrum could not repeat that "measurement"





FooFighter said:


> They couldn't repeat that measurement in general or did you send it there before and they couldn't reproduce?
> 
> Am no electrical engineer but could it also be related to local electricity issues?
> Have you tried that test somewhere else in the house / another flat?


Sage advice FF. Transformers can indeed be 'quirky' at the best of times...and possibly affected by the most unusual sources lol! In my own case, my usually dead silent AirlinkTransformers ASF 3000 Balanced Mains Conditioner/Filter (with _massive _trafo!!) suddenly developed a hum, and on their advice I finally managed to trace the culprit to a piston-operated air pump for the Koi pond...and situated way out in the garden greenhouse!!

Whatever ChJL, I hope your own experience is remedied soon..one way or the other! GOOD LUCK...


----------



## krude (Dec 3, 2022)

hypnos1 said:


> OK, so it's _*fine detail*_ resolution and the system's ability to deliver it with good energy/dynamics within a well balanced frequency range that determine "texture"....especially at lower listening levels I would add.
> 
> This is just another of our "audiophile" terms that has taken me a (frustratingly!) long time to really get a handle on, and has only recently become more clear at last.
> My own journey to experience them as best I can - wallet permitting - has ranged from tackling mains power optimisation right through to all fuses needed. Assuming highly resolving gear in situ (and clean power), I personally feel that the cables used are a major factor especially in regard to said micro detail retrieval...having progressed from OFC copper, thru (soft-annealed) pure silver to mono crystal OCC silver (often combined with OCC copper - both _solid_) - using in particular Neotech's wire(s). I rate this wire unsurpassed in resolution capability, thus ideal for fine detail. And as an antidote to @krude 's mention of high microdetail possibly reducing "warmth", I find that mixing OCC silver wire with copper (separately) helps minimise this tendency - especially if cable construction is also _dualled _(less EMI/RFI), and stretching to all _power_ cables as well as ICs if at all possible! . (Here, DIY - or a _very_ good friend's, can mean £$thousands saved!!).
> ...


Nice one, I tend to go for a bit warmer source / amps and colder single crystal silver cabling. At the end of the day it's a balancing act. That's what makes Ferrum stack so special, it manages to pull all the datails while having a tube like presentation. Glad to have such high level exchanges on here!  Cheers 🍻


----------



## TheR0v3r

hypnos1 said:


> OK, so it's _*fine detail*_ resolution and the system's ability to deliver it with good energy/dynamics within a well balanced frequency range that determine "texture"....especially at lower listening levels I would add.
> 
> This is just another of our "audiophile" terms that has taken me a (frustratingly!) long time to really get a handle on, and has only recently become more clear at last.
> My own journey to experience them as best I can - wallet permitting - has ranged from tackling mains power optimisation right through to all fuses needed. Assuming highly resolving gear in situ (and clean power), I personally feel that the cables used are a major factor especially in regard to said micro detail retrieval...having progressed from OFC copper, thru (soft-annealed) pure silver to mono crystal OCC silver (often combined with OCC copper - both _solid_) - using in particular Neotech's wire(s). I rate this wire unsurpassed in resolution capability, thus ideal for fine detail. And as an antidote to @krude 's mention of high microdetail possibly reducing "warmth", I find that mixing OCC silver wire with copper (separately) helps minimise this tendency - especially if cable construction is also _dualled _(less EMI/RFI), and stretching to all _power_ cables as well as ICs if at all possible! . (Here, DIY - or a _very_ good friend's, can mean £$thousands saved!!).
> ...


What a post @hypnos1 , too bad I can only like it once !

This conversation with @krude and you has given me alot of great ideas about what to do to further improve my system in 2023. I’m trying to figure out how I can get SOTA sound without paying for TOTL stuff. This journey is also why I’ve decided to share my setup in my signature, advice and questions are always welcome.


----------



## hypnos1

krude said:


> Nice one, I tend to go for a bit warmer source / amps and colder occ silver cabling. At the end of the day it's a *balancing act. *That's what makes Ferrum stack so special, it manages to pull all the datails while having a tube like presentation. Glad to have such high level exchanges on here!  Cheers🍻


Ah, dear krude...a balancing act indeed - one worthy of the greatest high-wire act imaginable lol! . With so many possible variables to explore, I firmly believe that a BIG dose of _*luck*_ is also needed, over and above extensive research and experimentation! Especially when even the very same gear combination can sound quite different depending upon one's _location_ - a sure fire recipe for possible frustration, disappointment and much pulling of hair...(one reason, I'm sure, for my ever-increasing baldness!  ).

But don't let this discourage you @TheR0v3r - or anyone else ...the quest is surely worthwhile when one eventually reaches (approaches?) audio nirvana .

CHEERS all...


----------



## ChJL

FooFighter said:


> They couldn't repeat that measurement in general or did you send it there before and they couldn't reproduce?
> 
> Am no electrical engineer but could it also be related to local electricity issues?
> Have you tried that test somewhere else in the house / another flat?


No the  unit is still here. I just hoped that the do the same as I did. Lay a SPL meter on top of it and measure off vs on... 

Used different power cable,  unplugged the cable to Oor, 
@hypnos1 yeah probably the transformer, only the fridge running and I also turned that off...

No  tank


----------



## hypnos1

ChJL said:


> No the  unit is still here. I just hoped that the do the same as I did. Lay a SPL meter on top of it and measure off vs on...
> 
> Used different power cable,  unplugged the cable to Oor,
> @hypnos1 yeah probably the transformer, only the fridge running and I also turned that off...
> ...


And no central heating pump working? Hope it's sorted for you soon...


----------



## kenk

Has anyone tried a true linear power supply? For other gear, i've been buying the ebay 80-100VA linear power supplies with what seems to be good luck and results. I am wondering how it would sound with the Oor. I know I would give up the feedback control, but it does at least have adjustable voltage. Maybe I should just get the Hypsos...


----------



## krude

kenk said:


> Has anyone tried a true linear power supply? For other gear, i've been buying the ebay 80-100VA linear power supplies with what seems to be good luck and results. I am wondering how it would sound with the Oor. I know I would give up the feedback control, but it does at least have adjustable voltage. Maybe I should just get the Hypsos...


To truly evaluate it you'd have to get Hypsos and a good LPS to compare. I think it should be good, but no idea how it will stack against Hypsos. One thing I recenly noticed is that the switching part of Hypsos is poluting the power with noise. I had to isolate it from the rest of my gear, especially HA6a, which being a tube amp attracts any noise like a magnet. On the plus side Oor is so far dead quiet doesn't matter where I plug it in.


----------



## hypnos1

kenk said:


> Has anyone tried a true linear power supply? For other gear, i've been buying the ebay 80-100VA linear power supplies with what seems to be good luck and results. I am wondering how it would sound with the Oor. I know I would give up the feedback control, but it does at least have adjustable voltage. Maybe I should just get the Hypsos...


I too have been very pleased with both (economical) Chinese "Ultra Low Noise" LPSs I've had for years now...just one powering both mscaler _and_ TT2 (@15V), and giving even more stable V out than the stock brick PSs! Yours has/have _variable V *out*_, kenk?...no separate voltage converter? If yours can do 24V to 30V out, then I'd suggest trying that first...unless Hypsos comes at a (very) attractive price with the OOR! I personally feel that voltage tweaking to OOR is all the fine adjustment most folks would ever need lol . Hoping to get round to trying my spare LPS with separate DC converter on the combo soon...although I personally wouldn't give up my Hypsos even if the result was favourable!!


krude said:


> To truly evaluate it you'd have to get Hypsos and a good LPS to compare. I think it should be good, but no idea how it will stack against Hypsos. One thing I recenly noticed is that the switching part of Hypsos is poluting the power with noise. I had to isolate it from the rest of my gear, especially HA6a, which being a tube amp attracts any noise like a magnet. On the plus side Oor is so far dead quiet doesn't matter where I plug it in.


Hi k...must admit to being a bit surprised at the inclusion of switching in Hypsos. But then, there are those who advocate that such _can_ in fact be preferable/sufficient...as with Chord's Rob Watts for the mscaler and TT2! But as with yourself, even though my Hypsos sits atop OOR, albeit on solid oak platform and oak cone feet, there's no hint whatsoever of 'noise' pollution


----------



## kenk

hypnos1 said:


> I too have been very pleased with both (economical) Chinese "Ultra Low Noise" LPSs I've had for years now...just one powering both mscaler _and_ TT2 (@15V), and giving even more stable V out than the stock brick PSs! Yours has/have _variable V *out*_, kenk?...no separate voltage converter? If yours can do 24V to 30V out, then I'd suggest trying that first...unless Hypsos comes at a (very) attractive price with the OOR! I personally feel that voltage tweaking to OOR is all the fine adjustment most folks would ever need lol . Hoping to get round to trying my spare LPS with separate DC converter on the combo soon...although I personally wouldn't give up my Hypsos even if the result was favourable!!
> 
> Hi k...must admit to being a bit surprised at the inclusion of switching in Hypsos. But then, there are those who advocate that such _can_ in fact be preferable/sufficient...as with Chord's Rob Watts for the mscaler and TT2! But as with yourself, even though my Hypsos sits atop OOR, albeit on solid oak platform and oak cone feet, there's no hint whatsoever of 'noise' pollution



The 12v one I do have has adjustment (trimmer pot inside - see attached - yours probably does too!). Theres usually +/- 2v of adjustment. They have a model that does 24v @6a. I go through after and replace the bridge rectifier with a IXYS fast recovery bridge unit, and a supertech slit foil cap (to replace the generic "nover audio grade" units). 

I think what i'll do is go this route then see if I can visit a dealer to compare sometime in 2023.


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## hypnos1 (Dec 8, 2022)

kenk said:


> The 12v one I do have has adjustment (trimmer pot inside - see attached - yours probably does too!). Theres usually +/- 2v of adjustment. They have a model that does 24v @6a. I go through after and replace the bridge rectifier with a IXYS fast recovery bridge unit, and a supertech slit foil cap (to replace the generic "nover audio grade" units).
> 
> I think what i'll do is go this route then see if I can visit a dealer to compare sometime in 2023.


Right, k....with just +/- 2v adjustment you will indeed need another unit @24v, which seems the sweet spot for most folks. And I like your mods...given how well these units perform stock, I suspect yours could give Hypsos a good run for the money ("the money" being the operative words methinks lol! )....cheers!

ps. Edit : photo of my 120VA innards attached :


----------



## krude

hypnos1 said:


> I too have been very pleased with both (economical) Chinese "Ultra Low Noise" LPSs I've had for years now...just one powering both mscaler _and_ TT2 (@15V), and giving even more stable V out than the stock brick PSs! Yours has/have _variable V *out*_, kenk?...no separate voltage converter? If yours can do 24V to 30V out, then I'd suggest trying that first...unless Hypsos comes at a (very) attractive price with the OOR! I personally feel that voltage tweaking to OOR is all the fine adjustment most folks would ever need lol . Hoping to get round to trying my spare LPS with separate DC converter on the combo soon...although I personally wouldn't give up my Hypsos even if the result was favourable!!
> 
> Hi k...must admit to being a bit surprised at the inclusion of switching in Hypsos. But then, there are those who advocate that such _can_ in fact be preferable/sufficient...as with Chord's Rob Watts for the mscaler and TT2! But as with yourself, even though my Hypsos sits atop OOR, albeit on solid oak platform and oak cone feet, there's no hint whatsoever of 'noise' pollution


What I meant about the noise pollution is polluting the mains power, but it only affects gear that ... can be affected by power noise 🤣 I know that sentence made sense lol ... the only way to check it and the only place where that would be a problem is if you have, say a sensitive to power tube amp and use it with sensitive headphone that pick up bg noise and power noise. But most devices make some kind of noise at this level, even Holo May produces cracks on startup. I just plug my Hypsos straight to the wall and keep my tube gear and DAC on a power conditioner, problem solved.


----------



## plumpudding2

krude said:


> What I meant about the noise pollution is polluting the mains power, but it only affects gear that ... can be affected by power noise 🤣 I know that sentence made sense lol ... the only way to check it and the only place where that would be a problem is if you have, say a sensitive to power tube amp and use it with sensitive headphone that pick up bg noise and power noise. But most devices make some kind of noise at this level, even Holo May produces cracks on startup. I just plug my Hypsos straight to the wall and keep my tube gear and DAC on a power conditioner, problem solved.


Is the Holo May sensitive to mains pollution in your experience? I just acquired one and it has been performing wonderfully, but its been plugged into the same power strip as my OOR + Hypsos and other electrical stuff. (sorry if this is off-topic)


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## krude (Dec 8, 2022)

plumpudding2 said:


> Is the Holo May sensitive to mains pollution in your experience? I just acquired one and it has been performing wonderfully, but its been plugged into the same power strip as my OOR + Hypsos and other electrical stuff. (sorry if this is off-topic)


Nah May has a very robus PSU so I think it's fine. Hypsos is also robust itself. I generally keep it plugged directly into the wall.

If you have any sensitive amps / headphones, especially tube etc. then it could benefit from looking into, but then you'd also hear it easily. I only noticed it on my tube amp and Utopia which is fairly sensitive, when powering on Hypsos on the same power conditioner. I solved it by pluging Hypsos into the wall and leaving the tube amp running from the power conditioner.


----------



## hypnos1

krude said:


> Nah May has a very robus PSU so I think it's fine. Hypsos is also robust itself. I generally keep it plugged directly into the wall.
> 
> If you have any sensitive amps / headphones, especially tube etc. then it could benefit from looking into, but then you'd also hear it easily. I only noticed it on my tube amp and Utopia which is fairly sensitive, when powering on Hypsos on the same power conditioner. I solved it by pluging Hypsos into the wall and leaving the tube amp running from the power conditioner.


Hey, k...either your wall mains is (fortunately!) very clean, or Hypsos has its own excellent noise filtering (or _both!_)...I myself won't even consider it, given my supply is obviously laden with crud from upstream lol!!


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## TheR0v3r (Dec 11, 2022)

So last week I got some tips and ideas on how to further improve my system. This week I was given the opportunity to try some better power cables (my local shop is fantastic!) and the improvements are obvious. Now I’m able to use the whole range of 22-30v and enjoy the differences without the sound becoming too ”harsh” at certain levels. ”Power optimisation” is an area for improvement in 2023. Thanks for excellent advice   .

One thing hit my while doing this A/B-ing. This is the first time I’ve owned an amplifier that’s so transparent that it’s more like listening to the system thru the amp rather than listening to the amp! The Ferrum stack may lean to the warmer side of neutral (”natural”?) in tonality but it isn’t coloring the sound. This is a strange experience and one that I’m not used to, but I’m very pleased .


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## hypnos1 (Dec 12, 2022)

TheR0v3r said:


> So last week I got some tips and ideas on how to further improve my system. This week I was given the opportunity to try some better power cables (my local shop is fantastic!) and the improvements are obvious. Now I’m able to use the whole range of 22-30v and enjoy the differences without the sound becoming too ”harsh” at certain levels. ”Power optimisation” is an area for improvement in 2023. Thanks for excellent advice   .
> 
> One thing hit my while doing this A/B-ing. This is the first time I’ve owned an amplifier that’s so transparent that it’s more like listening to the system thru the amp rather than listening to the amp! The Ferrum stack may lean to the warmer side of neutral (”natural”?) in tonality but it isn’t coloring the sound. This is a strange experience and one that I’m not used to, but I’m very pleased .


Good one, TRr...and still there are those who believe "cables don't matter"!! But much will depend on the capabilities of the rest of one's system of course ...not forgetting _ears lol!_ And given it's _electricity_ that carries the signal from source to end, it follows that _anything_ we do to ensure its 'cleanliness' and freedom from any kind of interference en route _must_ therefore be of paramount importance...to me anyway .

And yes, the Ferrums' transparency is what helps so many other sound traits excel of course. Speaking of which, and further to our recent discussion on "texture", I have just had another 'eureka' moment on another 'audiophile' term I've always felt needed clarifying - ie _*weight*_. I was never happy with it simply meaning the usual _bass_ quality/quantity - deep/dynamic/solid/slam etc. And once again, Ferrum + Denon (SA)CD player have finally answered my query. For me at least, it encompasses much more than that, as 'hit' me via Mike Oldfield's 'Tubular Bells (Opening theme)'. His sudden (loud) interjections in the early sequences had a quality beyond said 'simple' meaning...and covering _other _frequencies, not just bass. Their entire sound mix had an _energy _and quality I've never heard before from this track, hitting in a quite startling way...again, _beyond_ mere'slam'. I liken it to a Master Martial Artist's ability to channel his entire body into massive power delivery at his extremities in a way that defies belief, as opposed to a 'normal' kick or punch. In a sound context, it's almost impossible to describe fully...but is evident when one finally experiences it after years of listening scrutiny!

I would however add that for me, it combines not just dynamic _multi_-frequency effects, but also great _clarity; control; speed; transparency; transients handling, _to name but a few...which the Ferrum combo manages in spades lol 

ps. This has also explained that extra 'magic' I'm now hearing from the Denon DCD 1600 NE as source...over and above even that from my Antipodes and Naim servers' SSD playback...nice!


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## TheR0v3r (Dec 14, 2022)

hypnos1 said:


> Good one, TRr...and still there are those who believe "cables don't matter"!! But much will depend on the capabilities of the rest of one's system of course ...not forgetting _ears lol!_ And given it's _electricity_ that carries the signal from source to end, it follows that _anything_ we do to ensure its 'cleanliness' and freedom from any kind of interference en route _must_ therefore be of paramount importance...to me anyway .
> 
> And yes, the Ferrums' transparency is what helps so many other sound traits excel of course. Speaking of which, and further to our recent discussion on "texture", I have just had another 'eureka' moment on another 'audiophile' term I've always felt needed clarifying - ie _*weight*_. I was never happy with it simply meaning the usual _bass_ quality/quantity - deep/dynamic/solid/slam etc. And once again, Ferrum + Denon (SA)CD player have finally answered my query. For me at least, it encompasses much more than that, as 'hit' me via Mike Oldfield's 'Tubular Bells (Opening theme)'. His sudden (loud) interjections in the early sequences had a quality beyond said 'simple' meaning...and covering _other _frequencies, not just bass. Their entire sound mix had an _energy _and quality I've never heard before from this track, hitting in a quite startling way...again, _beyond_ mere'slam'. I liken it to a Master Martial Artist's ability to channel his entire body into massive power delivery at his extremities in a way that defies belief, as opposed to a 'normal' kick or punch. In a sound context, it's almost impossible to describe fully...but is evident when one finally experiences it after years of listening scrutiny!
> 
> ...


Back home.

What you wrote about about ”weight” and ”beyond mere slam” really resonated with me. It captures the experience of listening to live music rather than a system (at least my system). It must be a thrill to experience that ”magic” at home 

P.S. My hypothesis is that the difference between the sources has to do with noise and timing (not the Ferrum stack). I’ll explore those areas in 2023, but now it’s time for ”Tubular Bells”


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## hypnos1 (Dec 14, 2022)

TheR0v3r said:


> Back home.
> 
> What you wrote about about ”weight” and ”beyond mere slam” really resonated with me. It captures the experience of listening to live music rather than a system (at least my system). It must be a thrill to experience that ”magic” at home
> 
> P.S. My hypothesis is that the difference between the sources has to do with noise and timing (not the Ferrum stack). I’ll explore those areas in 2023, but now it’s time for ”Tubular Bells”


Yo R0...hadn't expected much more to come from my system - or anything below stratospheric £££$$$ lol! And playback direct from optical disc media (via a top class player at least) certainly has convinced me of its superiority over most other sources...*especially streaming!* Can never now go back to anything else, despite the flashy attractions of more 'up to date' approaches...and at least is more convenient than vinyl lol!!  Plus, with the Denon able to handle hi-res fare via burned DVD data discs, my expensive collection isn't redundant. Mind you, with mscaler in place, its upscaling of 'plain' Redbook is only a whisker behind anyway! 

And yes, noise and timing will definitely be superior to USB-based playback systems on the whole, no matter what (expensive!) measures are adopted to try and deal with these issues (and others). Even with my Antipodes optimised to the hilt for USB operation, plus expensive Ethernet filtering, the Denon simply trounces it (double-edged sword alas  ). But I'm sure that the quality of amplification will also influence the_ degree _to which the 'magic' is evident, not least the more subtle elements in "dynamics" handling. And then there's the input from everything else in the system of course..._synergy?_

It is indeed strange that it was the momentary/sudden interjections of Mike Oldfield that finally highlighted this topic for me...had obviously been taking it for granted in music I thought more appropriate for such testing - like "Battle" in Hans Zimmer's score for Gladiator...again showing the difference between _weight_ and "mere slam".

ps. All the tracks in Mike's 'Best of..' CD, "Elements", are wonderful for testing a system's capabilities IMHO...the quality of recording/engineering is simply outstanding....CHEERS!...


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## kenk (Dec 17, 2022)

So my linear power supply came. Super impressed, also the eBay seller (I have no association with-- found randomly on ebay) was awesome. Happy customer, though. Comes from Hong Kong, and very flexible “AQ Electronic Store - Ic20110801. They made me a 24v +/- 2 volt 7 amp supply. The thing is huge. Initial impression is better bass and more space and air from the basic switch power supply. More listening tomorrow.

I really want to compare to Hypsos. Need to find one in LA to try.

Here are some pictures from inside. 200w toroid!

**Edit to add, it goes from 22 up to 28.5. More range than I expected. I think I like it at 25?


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## drc73rp (Dec 17, 2022)

kenk said:


> So my linear power supply came. Super impressed, also the eBay seller (I have no association with-- found randomly on ebay) was awesome. Happy customer, though. Comes from Hong Kong, and very flexible “AQ Electronic Store - Ic20110801. They made me a 24v +/- 2 volt 7 amp supply. The thing is huge. Initial impression is better bass and more space and air from the basic switch power supply. More listening tomorrow.
> 
> I really want to compare to Hypsos. Need to find one in LA to try.
> 
> ...


Can you share the cost of this LPS and also the dimensions? Did you consider the R-core tranny instead of the torroid? How do you adjust the voltage - does it have a display and knob? More pictures please.

I wonder if the Burson amps would benefit from something like this. I've always wanted to try it out when I still had a Conductor 3R which I felt had anemic bass and not enough overall musical weight.


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## kenk (Dec 17, 2022)

drc73rp said:


> Can you share the cost of this LPS and also the dimensions? Did you consider the R-core tranny instead of the torroid? How do you adjust the voltage - does it have a display and knob? More pictures please.
> 
> I wonder if the Burson amps would benefit from something like this. I've always wanted to try it out when I still had a Conductor 3R which I felt had anemic bass and not enough overall musical weight.



It was 225 shipped. Toroid actually have less flux leakage noise and are more expensive. Audio express has a good primer on this. Ferrum uses a toroid in the hypsos. I’ll add measurements and pictures when home (added). Here was the info from the listing. The adjustment is a small trim pot (pictured below).

I stopped being interested in Burson when they decided to put a fan in, rather than designing a case that could dissipate the heat. Not hard to do, just a cop out using existing case to save $ on a expensive product.

See attached for trimmer and size comparison. Very happy with the sound. I may go in and replace the rectifier with an IXYS fast recovery unit. The caps are good quality, so i'm not sure I see any point in changing them.

After more listening the bass is impressive.


----------



## DivinesGaming

If anyone here's got an extra Hypsos for sale please PM me as I have an Oor coming and would like to pair it up. Thanks.


----------



## TheR0v3r

krude said:


> Right, microdynamics, textures being an example of ... the exact same goes as for macrodynamics. With microdynamics, again, you need to have a headphone (and cable) that is capable of displaying microdynamics well. TC with pretty much any cable is a champion from sets I've heard, it's so sharp you can cut yourself on those textures lol For Susvara and Utopia for example I bought highest grade pure silver cables to enhance microdetail and microdynamics, then these are not far behind the TC.
> 
> Rest of the chain needs to be punchy the same as with macrodynamics (so not dead and flat), but it also needs to be clean (clarity), and have as black background as possible. There is one tradeoff that I find with micro a lot, and it has to do with FR. Usually more upper mids / treble forward presentation tends to produce more texture (easier to hear texture) and microdetail, and more "romantic" darker presentation "hides" those details a bit. But treble / upper mid forwardness is less natural, can be grating and fatiguing. With tubes it's easy cause you can change the tubes depending on your mood, with SS I would rather go with easy FR rather than fatiguing. With Oor for me bumping the voltage to 26v and up sharpens things up to get the most textures and microdetail, but the sound is getting fatiguing for me and loses that ease, effortlessness and naturalness. Test track that I use for textures is ususally Agnes Obel - Aventine ... there's a cello playing in some sections that has very distinct bowed string texture.
> 
> Hope that helps : )


During December I’ve been working to improve the system. In order not to get caught up in tweaking and listening to the system instead of music I schedule ”tinkering time” for myself every week. To make good use my ”tinkering time” I work with simple hypothesis, experiments and evaluation in the form of my subjective listening experience (no measurements). I get the concept of confirmation bias and try to navigate this as best as I can by using my own ”structured tests” when evaluating changes.

This month I’ve been mainly working with:

- Upgrading power cables will improve both macro- and microdynamics 

In two out of three cases that proved to be TRUE. Upgrading the power cable from the wall to the power distributor and from the power distributor to the Hypsos was an improvement. In the case of upgrading the cable going from the distributor to the LPSU it proved to be FALSE. 

As the system becomes more ”punchy” and ”clean” with a lower noise floor I’ve ended up lowering the voltage, from 25.7v to 23.2v for both headphones


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## krude (Dec 23, 2022)

TheR0v3r said:


> During December I’ve been working to improve the system. In order not to get caught up in tweaking and listening to the system instead of music I schedule ”tinkering time” for myself every week. To make good use my ”tinkering time” I work with simple hypothesis, experiments and evaluation in the form of my subjective listening experience (no measurements). I get the concept of confirmation bias and try to navigate this as best as I can by using my own ”structured tests” when evaluating changes.
> 
> This month I’ve been mainly working with:
> 
> ...


Depending on the rest of your system you should be getting TOTL performance with Utopia without any EQ. Maybe you could add 2-3db sub bass shelf if you're a total bass head, but even without it it should hit like a truck with a very natural / musical, clean and detailed presentation 

I was experimenting with Roon yesterday to see if I can get anything more from my digital, and Tidal in exclusive (bit perfect) mode over optical straight to dac won hands down. Roon streaming Tidal introduced fuzziness I would associate with resampling even if it was indicating "bit perfect" playback with no processing. I would assume it has to do with Tidals formats, MQA decoding etc. as my dac doesn't do MQA and it has to be done on the software side.

I recently keep Oor either on 23.4v or nominal 24v. It realaxed a lot after burn in. I also notice the low end dynamics get even more punchy after about 30 min warm up. YMMV


----------



## 801evan

krude said:


> Depending on the rest of your system you should be getting TOTL performance with Utopia without any EQ. Maybe you could add 2-3db sub bass shelf if you're a total bass head, but even without it it should hit like a truck with a very natural / musical, clean and detailed presentation
> 
> I was experimenting with Roon yesterday to see if I can get anything more from my digital, and Tidal in exclusive (bit perfect) mode over optical straight to dac won hands down. Roon streaming Tidal introduced fuzziness I would associate with resampling even if it was indicating "bit perfect" playback with no processing. I would assume it has to do with Tidals formats, MQA decoding etc. as my dac doesn't do MQA and it has to be done on the software side.
> 
> I recently keep Oor either on 23.4v or nominal 24v. It realaxed a lot after burn in. I also notice the low end dynamics get even more punchy after about 30 min warm up. YMMV


Roon has always been a dirty sound due to its engine.


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## krude

801evan said:


> Roon has always been a dirty sound due to its engine.


Ooof I thought Ill be a heretic 🤠🤗


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## 801evan

krude said:


> Ooof I thought Ill be a heretic 🤠🤗


Lol. Too many non believers on the Susvara thread on like the last 10 pages or something. 😂


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## TheR0v3r (Dec 23, 2022)

krude said:


> Depending on the rest of your system you should be getting TOTL performance with Utopia without any EQ. Maybe you could add 2-3db sub bass shelf if you're a total bass head, but even without it it should hit like a truck with a very natural / musical, clean and detailed presentation
> 
> I was experimenting with Roon yesterday to see if I can get anything more from my digital, and Tidal in exclusive (bit perfect) mode over optical straight to dac won hands down. Roon streaming Tidal introduced fuzziness I would associate with resampling even if it was indicating "bit perfect" playback with no processing. I would assume it has to do with Tidals formats, MQA decoding etc. as my dac doesn't do MQA and it has to be done on the software side.
> 
> I recently keep Oor either on 23.4v or nominal 24v. It realaxed a lot after burn in. I also notice the low end dynamics get even more punchy after about 30 min warm up. YMMV


Yes, I’m finally very happy with the sound from the Utopia. I use eq to slightly bring down the presence region, remove the upper bass emphasis and correct the upper midrange which is a little too forward for my taste AND add some sub bass .

Funny that you should mention Roon. The reason that I’ve been working on getting things right with the Ferrum stack is that I want to shift my focus to the digital source. As it now stands I’m very happy with the:

power subsystem
digital to digital conversion
digital to analog conversion
amplification
transducers
The digital source side needs improvement. When I was testing power cables it was actually alot easier for me to hear differences between them when using an old school CD-player than with Roon…

P.S Started using Audirvana in parallell with Roon.


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## krude (Dec 23, 2022)

TheR0v3r said:


> Yes, I’m finally very happy with the sound from the Utopia. I use eq to slightly bring down the presence region, remove the upper bass emphasis and correct the upper midrange which is a little too forward for my taste AND add some sub bass .
> 
> Funny that you should mention Roon. The reason that I’ve been working on getting things right with the Ferrum stack is that I want to shift my focus to the digital source. As it now stands I’m very happy with the:
> 
> ...


I would try to go Tidal (exclusive mode, no EQ or other processing) over optical into your DAC -> set Oor Hypsos to 22v with Utopia, give it 20 min to warm up. I switched to Utopia today and I really like what I'm hearing straight out of the box. 22v relaxes the treble for me and warmup bumps up the bass dynamics and warms up the mids for me. Sound that you'll get will heavily depend on the characteristic of your DAC in that setup. May is natural with strong bass and defined, but not overly forward upper mids and treble.

Also I stay away from low gain, medium or high if I can manage. High has a bit more distortion but also more dynamic kick.


----------



## raps1514

krude said:


> Recently been on a journey to sell my Oor and Hypsos. I've decided to upgrade my HA6a (KT88 and EL34 based tube amp) to HA300 MK2 (300B based tube amp) and maybe get AHB2.
> 
> My main goal, more dynamics and bass from Susvara.
> 
> ...


Happy with the HA6A as the tube companion to OOR? No itch for the 300MK2?


----------



## krude

raps1514 said:


> Happy with the HA6A as the tube companion to OOR? No itch for the 300MK2?


Haha of course Ive got an itch, but HA6a does everything I want and more at a fraction of the cost. If I have 8k burning a hole in my pocket I'll probably try Woo WA5 LE and roll some tubes 💲💲💲🤠


----------



## TheR0v3r

Quick tip! If your curious about how Ferrum Oor sounds with tubes then I can highly recommend trying digital emulation. Depending on the quality of the software it’s an excellent way to experience tube sound without investing in (expensive) hardware.

My favorite is Ignite Amps PTEq-X with it’s fantastic modelling of four different ECC8x tubes - amazing!

Merry Christmas🎅🎄.


----------



## krude (Dec 24, 2022)

TheR0v3r said:


> Quick tip! If your curious about how Ferrum Oor sounds with tubes then I can highly recommend trying digital emulation. Depending on the quality of the software it’s an excellent way to experience tube sound without investing in (expensive) hardware.
> 
> My favorite is Ignite Amps PTEq-X with it’s fantastic modelling of four different ECC8x tubes - amazing!
> 
> Merry Christmas🎅🎄.


Merry Christmas 🎄 

Actually Oor is a very tube like SS amp. I was testing it against HA6a using some pretty "tuby" sounding tubes while working ... I was really enjoying HA6a with Susvara, grooving to some hard rock, working ... only to discover 20 min later that I was listening to Oor all that time ... I think Oor designers wanted to create a SS amp that would sound like a totl tube amp, and to my ears they suceeded.

Decent tube amps are fun bc they add a lot of organic ... ness ... to the experience. Tubes burn in quite a bit, transformers burn in, tubes settle and warm up, transformers warm up, a tube amp sounds a bit different every time you start it up, tubes are microphonic, there's loads of envronmental variables at play. There is usually a combination of 3 tubes to form the audio circuit: rectifiers, input and power (output) tubes, so you can mix and match to create pretty unique and varied signatures. That's where amps like HA6a excel. You can roll a huge variety of tubes with it, each with 3 output impednace levels plus Ultralinear mode ... that's a lot of modes 🤠 for me the more flexibility an amp has the better. HA6a will not be superior to Oor, but it can be very different and in the same ballpark. It has issues, it has quirks, it's actually far from perfect, but at the same time it's a LOT of amp for the money and it will do everything with a few work arounds and caveats.

And like a good tube amp, you can tweak the Ferrum stack with voltage, 3 gain levels, it burns in like tubes and it wamrs up like tubes ... it is very similar in ways not many SS amps are.


----------



## StevenR296

Hey everybody, I'm currently debating whether to run a Erco+Hypsos OR Fiio Q7+Oor+Hypsos. I already own the Fiio Q7 and love it because it can fallback to UAC1 to utilize 3D Audio from my PS5 and it's a solid DAC/Amp when I'm on the go. It has a ES9038PRO DAC Chip, though I know implementation is more important than the chip itself. Oor is the better amp than the Erco, but would the Fiio's DAC hold back the Oor? I'm curious which setup would sound better. My only headphone at the moment is a ZMF Caldera.


----------



## krude (Dec 24, 2022)

StevenR296 said:


> Hey everybody, I'm currently debating whether to run a Erco+Hypsos OR Fiio Q7+Oor+Hypsos. I already own the Fiio Q7 and love it because it can fallback to UAC1 to utilize 3D Audio from my PS5 and it's a solid DAC/Amp when I'm on the go. It has a ES9038PRO DAC Chip, though I know implementation is more important than the chip itself. Oor is the better amp than the Erco, but would the Fiio's DAC hold back the Oor? I'm curious which setup would sound better. My only headphone at the moment is a ZMF Caldera.


Haven't heard Erco, but Oor + Hypsos will drive Caldera to it's full potential. Will Fiio Q7 hold it back? Most likely yes, but so will Erco. For me Oor is a TOTL amp, shares the club with like of Holo Bliss, Volot, Soloist GT and 300B tube amps, Caldera is TOTL level planar from what I've been hearing about it, so to maximise your stack you will need a TOTL level dac at some point ... or at least solid midfi like Pontus 2 or Gustard R26/X26.

I would get Oor + Hypsos and use your Q7, put about 100h on this system, then you'll know what kinda DAC you want to go with when you upgrade. Will it be analytical, musical, lean or full bodied, laid back or forward, do you index for detail and stage, or more for timbre and mids etc.


----------



## TheR0v3r

krude said:


> Merry Christmas 🎄
> 
> Actually Oor is a very tube like SS amp. I was testing it against HA6a using some pretty "tuby" sounding tubes while working ... I was really enjoying HA6a with Susvara, grooving to some hard rock, working ... only to discover 20 min later that I was listening to Oor all that time ... I think Oor designers wanted to create a SS amp that would sound like a totl tube amp, and to my ears they suceeded.
> 
> ...


Yes, it has many things in common with a tube amp. 

Now that I’m back to using Audirvana (at least part-time) I’m rediscovering all the VST-plugins I used to use. The tube emulator turns the Oor into a ”hybrid amp” of sort. A quick listen to Aventine - Agnes Obel (excellent!) gives a very favorable first impression with both good macro- and microdynamics.


----------



## StevenR296 (Dec 24, 2022)

krude said:


> Haven't heard Erco, but Oor + Hypsos will drive Caldera to it's full potential. Will Fiio Q7 hold it back? Most likely yes, but so will Erco. For me Oor is a TOTL amp, shares the club with like of Holo Bliss, Volot, Soloist GT and 300B tube amps, Caldera is TOTL level planar from what I've been hearing about it, so to maximise your stack you will need a TOTL level dac at some point ... or at least solid midfi like Pontus 2 or Gustard R26/X26.
> 
> I would get Oor + Hypsos and use your Q7, put about 100h on this system, then you'll know what kinda DAC you want to go with when you upgrade. Will it be analytical, musical, lean or full bodied, laid back or forward, do you index for detail and stage, or more for timbre and mids etc.


This is so helpful. Thank you! I also have a ZMF Pendant, but the Oor sounds like an intriguing SS amp to run alongside it. I'm hoping their characteristics aren't _too_ similar. Maybe I'm rushing the decision, but I'm seeing so many positive comments about both amps and I'm sure the Oor wouldn't disappoint. I could get creative and even run either amp as a pre-amp to the other and mess with tubes and voltage and tweak the sound that way.


----------



## TheR0v3r

krude said:


> I would try to go Tidal (exclusive mode, no EQ or other processing) over optical into your DAC -> set Oor Hypsos to 22v with Utopia, give it 20 min to warm up. I switched to Utopia today and I really like what I'm hearing straight out of the box. 22v relaxes the treble for me and warmup bumps up the bass dynamics and warms up the mids for me. Sound that you'll get will heavily depend on the characteristic of your DAC in that setup. May is natural with strong bass and defined, but not overly forward upper mids and treble.
> 
> Also I stay away from low gain, medium or high if I can manage. High has a bit more distortion but also more dynamic kick.


I see what you’re doing there, your suggestions shifts the sound towards my preferences . Appreciate your ideas and really enjoyed trying them out. Also thinking that our different DAC’s (both are excellent!) are a major factor in the sound and approach to settings etc. 

Today I’m listening to the Utopias with medium gain and Hypsos at 24,7v (with some eq). Now this is TOTL performance from the Utopias and Ferrum Oor! It’s pure bliss running thru track after track of my favorite songs. Right now I’ve been enjoying:

- ”Just a little Lovin’” - Shelby Lynne
- ”Nameless” - Dominique Fils-Aimé
- ”Dead of Night” - Orville Peck
- ”Osmose” - Claire Laffut
- ”Concrete Walls” - Fever Ray

Finally


----------



## TheR0v3r (Dec 26, 2022)

Let me start off this post by stating that I’m not a planar guy and I usually prefer the sound of dynamic driver headphones. I tend to feel that planars are a little ”lifeless” (for lack of a better term) on SS amps, but… The Ferrum stack is special and an excellent ”tool” to work with. Keep reading  

*Background*
I really, really dig the technical design and construction of the Riviera AIC 10 amplifier. I believe that it’s a world class, SOTA headphone amplifier. I’ve been doing alot of reading recently to understand the design choices made by it’s designers. All theory, no practical experience.

My aim has been to replicate those design choices in my system by using the Ferrum Oor aided by digital tools (eq and digital emulation) as I believe that there a similarites in the ”musical vision” of these two products - soul!

*Implementation*
In practice this for example has meant emulating an ECC82/12AU7 triode valve that is used in the pre-amp section of the AIC 10. This has meant finding the ”best” tube emulator. The best in this case means the handling of harmonics etc. My favorite is Ignite Amps PTEq-X with it’s fantastic modelling of four different ECC8x tubes, one of those is the ECC82!

It has also meant playing music thru Audirvana as I need to be able to use VST-plugins. (Audirvana has actually turned out to be an improvement vs Roon with regards to sound quality. Roon is still a wonderful way to explore music).

I’m running Oor on ”high gain” with Hypsos at 23.4v. The only thing I do in PTEq-X is tube emulation, nothing else. The way that the tubes are emulated means that I’ve had to ”retune” my eq-settings, especially lower the SPL of the mid- and upper bass.

*Results*
In one word, thrilled !

The Ferrum Oor is a fantastic amp with wonderful tuning. It’s soo very transparent that it’s a perfect amp to work with when trying to replicate the sound of a tube amp such as the Rivera AIC 10. I’m sharing these efforts in the hope of contributing to the community in general and especially showing new ways of adding value to the ownership of the Ferrum stack by using (inexpensive) digital tools.

Enjoy!

P.S. Just to be clear, my goal has been to replicate the experience of listening to music with a Riviera in your system. All this from my understanding of what the designer is trying to accomplish. I don’t own that amp and have no way of A/B-ing. If you want the full experience you get the Riviera AIC 10!


----------



## kenk

Since we are talking about adding tube sound, I think it’s worth mentioning (possibly trying!) an actual tube preamp (ideally balanced) feeding the Oor in bypass mode (which improves the sound significantly). The amp section of the Oor is better than the preamp section.


----------



## krude (Dec 26, 2022)

TheR0v3r said:


> Let me start off this post by stating that I’m not a planar guy and I usually prefer the sound of dynamic driver headphones. I tend to feel that planars are a little ”lifeless” (for lack of a better term) on SS amps, but… The Ferrum stack is special and an excellent ”tool” to work with. Keep reading
> 
> *Background*
> I really, really dig the technical design and construction of the Riviera AIC 10 amplifier. I believe that it’s a world class, SOTA headphone amplifier. I’ve been doing alot of reading recently to understand the design choices made by it’s designers. All theory, no practical experience.
> ...


While not many will ever be fortunate enough to own the Riviera, I would highly encourage trying a transformer coupled tube amp (even Cayin HA1a will do) or OTL (ideally both) with Utopia. It's a completely different experience that no emulation will ever get close to. One simply has to run both SS and tubes 😮🤠


----------



## TheR0v3r

krude said:


> While not many will ever be fortunate enough to own the Riviera, I would highly encourage trying a transformer coupled tube amp (even Cayin HA1a will do) or OTL (ideally both) with Utopia. It's a completely different experience that no emulation will ever get close to. One simply has to run both SS and tubes 😮🤠


My point was the share a way to experience the sound of tubes with the Ferrum stack without buying a new amp. Initially just for fun but now because it actually is a great experience.

I’ve owned the following tube amps and used all with headphones:

- Brocksieper Earmax
- Feliks audio Echo Mk 1
- Primaluna EVO 400 preamp (with Burson Soloist 3xp)
- VTL IT-85

(All used with Chord stack, ZMF Verite Open and Sennheiser HD800S. No Utopia.) 

Each and everyone has been a different experience. In comparison, and from memory!, I’m very impressed with the digital emulation. Really impressed!


----------



## TheR0v3r

kenk said:


> Since we are talking about adding tube sound, I think it’s worth mentioning (possibly trying!) an actual tube preamp (ideally balanced) feeding the Oor in bypass mode (which improves the sound significantly). The amp section of the Oor is better than the preamp section.


Have any idea how the bypass function is implemented? 

In my previous setup I used it with a Chord stack as volume control. Actually unsure about the benefits of using bypass mode. Sometimes I got the feeling that it just bypassed the volume control and ”locked” the gain without bypassing the preamp…


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## kenk (Dec 27, 2022)

TheR0v3r said:


> Have any idea how the bypass function is implemented?
> 
> In my previous setup I used it with a Chord stack as volume control. Actually unsure about the benefits of using bypass mode. Sometimes I got the feeling that it just bypassed the volume control and ”locked” the gain without bypassing the preamp…


Based on measurements here https://goldensound.audio/2021/10/27/ferrum-oor-and-hypsos-measurements/ It certainly seems like more than what Chord does (Chord does just lock gain). Measurably less distortion, and better SINAD. This is consistent with my listening as well. I would fathom to guess it bypasses the volume control and a preamp stage, but without a schematic this is just speculation.


----------



## DMITRIY R

Are there any warnings about using 24 volt power supplies in conjunction with ORR, but with a current strength of more than 2.5 amperes? For example Burson Audio Super Charger 5A?


----------



## krude

DMITRIY R said:


> Are there any warnings about using 24 volt power supplies in conjunction with ORR, but with a current strength of more than 2.5 amperes? For example Burson Audio Super Charger 5A?


Nah should be fine. Burson SC is not the best psu tho be warned.


----------



## kenk

DMITRIY R said:


> Are there any warnings about using 24 volt power supplies in conjunction with ORR, but with a current strength of more than 2.5 amperes? For example Burson Audio Super Charger 5A?


From an electrical theory standpoint there’s not a way to damage a circuit with too much current. The other way, current limiting can cause performance issues, but it’s rare and we aren’t talking about using a lower current / wattage supply. A device will draw as much current as it needs, but not more. Damage can be done to circuits with over or under voltage. The range on the OOR is 22-30, and it reportedly has over voltage protection.


----------



## hypnos1

DMITRIY R said:


> Are there any warnings about using 24 volt power supplies in conjunction with ORR, but with a current strength of more than 2.5 amperes? For example Burson Audio Super Charger 5A?


As @kenk mentioned - "a device will (ONLY) draw as much current (A) as it needs"...thankfully! But V is another matter entirely, as others have also stated. And many would say a _surfeit_ of available current is in fact preferable!


----------



## KEKPOG

Has anyone compared the Violectric V550 to the OOR stack? 
Havnt got a chance to audtion the OOR stack but do for the V550, wonder how does it compare to the Vio.


----------



## kenjamin0523

Hi all, I’m a new Ferrum owner. Is it safe if I turn on my Ferrum O+H 24/7 ?


----------



## dudeX

kenjamin0523 said:


> Hi all, I’m a new Ferrum owner. Is it safe if I turn on my Ferrum O+H 24/7 ?


I leave mine on 24/7. There’s no problem. 
It’s only unsafe if your locale has power instability like power surges due to lightning.


----------



## DivinesGaming

So I just got the Ferrum Oor + Hypsos...

RME ADI 2 DAC
Ferrum Oor in Bypass mode (power amp) connected to the RME

Should I connect the Hypsos to the DAC or to the Ferrum Oor, thoughts?
Should I not run it in Bypass mode, thoughts?

Cheers guys, looking forward to opinions.


----------



## chesebert

I wonder how many have already moved onto the next FOTM amp? Anyone still has their OOR after 5 months?


----------



## FooFighter

chesebert said:


> I wonder how many have already moved onto the next FOTM amp? Anyone still has their OOR after 5 months?


Sure, even second time after getting and selling T&A-HA200 in the meantime.
First one 8 months, second one 5 months


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## hypnos1 (Jan 4, 2023)

FooFighter said:


> Sure, even second time after getting and selling T&A-HA200 in the meantime.
> First one 8 months, second one 5 months


Wow FF...and that T&A sure is some machine lol 

I personally find OOR + Hypsos just keeps delivering more with every tweak/upgrade I make...right down to now also replacing the secondary internal fuse of my modded Denon DCD 1600NE with another superb HiFiTuning one, and detaching the (separate) power source to the analog board. The Ferrum combo _adores_ especially being fed by a top class CD transport as source, as I've mentioned ad infinitum(nauseum?!)...but from my own experience, such incremental levels may not be _quite _so noticeable perhaps via other sources, particularly non-stratospheric USB based systems and streaming IMHO. However, the Ferrums will shine nonetheless lol!


----------



## krude

DivinesGaming said:


> So I just got the Ferrum Oor + Hypsos...
> 
> RME ADI 2 DAC
> Ferrum Oor in Bypass mode (power amp) connected to the RME
> ...


Hypsos to Oor, use bypass if you have power hungry cans and use dac volume control.


----------



## krude (Jan 4, 2023)

chesebert said:


> I wonder how many have already moved onto the next FOTM amp? Anyone still has their OOR after 5 months?


People who appreciate the signature traits O+H has will stay with it. There's no straight upgrade imo maybe apart from Zahl HM1 (not sure if that's a straight upgrade either).


----------



## 801evan

chesebert said:


> I wonder how many have already moved onto the next FOTM amp? Anyone still has their OOR after 5 months?


I thought the Hypsos OOR was a whole can of hot air ..... Until I swapped out the May for the Burson Conductor.


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## Delta9K (Jan 4, 2023)

chesebert said:


> Anyone still has their OOR after 5 months?


Just over 1 year with the Ferrum Hypsos+OOR. The Ferrum stack is doing for me what I wanted and I am pleased. It's part of a dedicated setup supporting a Susvara.

Roon server (ROCK) -> Sonore ultraRendu -> Holo Spring3 KTE -> OOR -> Susvara

It's a modest system even with all cables and interconnects having been upgraded (price commensurate to respective components) and it works well for me. I really enjoy my listening sessions using this setup, and that for me is what matters. I know there are better chains - there always will be, but for now I'm content.


----------



## duffer5

Delta9K said:


> Just over 1 year with the Ferrum Hypsos+OOR. The Ferrum stack is doing for me what I wanted and I am content. It's part of a dedicated setup to supporting a Susvara. All cables and interconnects have been upgraded
> 
> Roon server (ROCK) -> Sonore ultraRendu -> Holo Spring3 KTE -> OOR -> Susvara


I still have mine after several months of total enjoyment. I can't wait to see what else Ferrum puts out.


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## TheR0v3r (Jan 7, 2023)

chesebert said:


> I wonder how many have already moved onto the next FOTM amp? Anyone still has their OOR after 5 months?


It’s a keeper 

Yet to hear a solid state headphoneamp that has impressed me more.

PS. Increasingly growing disinterested in FOTM. Some dealers and reviewers need to rethink their “business model” IMHO.


----------



## SLC1966

chesebert said:


> I wonder how many have already moved onto the next FOTM amp? Anyone still has their OOR after 5 months?


The Ferrum stack is spectacular even after the 6 months or so I have had it.  It seems to me to allow the HP be what it is supposed to be.  It is not holding the HP back.  I have a Bliss coming in at some point soon so I moved the Ferrum stack away from the Spring KTE DAC.  Just because the Bliss and Spring make more sense ascetically to put together. 

The surprise of that shallowness is that the Ferrum stack was then left with the Yiggy OG DAC.  I thought a transparent amp with a more "bright" oriented DAC would be too much.  It has been a wonderful pairing for both Planar and DD HPs.  I have a feeling Ferrum is working on an R2R DAC.  I hope for my wallet it would be later than sooner.  I am basing this information on nothing but a hunch.  It would be a good evolutionary thing to do for the company.


----------



## Delta9K (Monday at 8:51 PM)

I feel similar, the Ferrum stack sounds great when matched up with the Yggdrasil they have good synergy together. I do run the ferrum with my spring3 but only because the Susvara sounds better to me with that arrangement, and that’s what I got the ferrum stack for.


----------



## duffer5

Delta9K said:


> I feel similar, the Ferrum stack sounds great when matched up with the Yggdrasil they have good synergy together. I do run my the ferrum with my spring3 but only because the Susvara sounds better to me with that arrangement and that’s what I got the ferrum stack for.


Running the Ferrum stack with Susvara and the Gustard r26.  My end game, for now


----------



## duas2noites

duffer5 said:


> Running the Ferrum stack with Susvara and the Gustard r26.  My end game, for now


I will buy ferrum stack and gustard r26, will use it with DCA Stealth.


----------



## Andrewteee

I honestly have no interest in moving on the the Oor. It is absolutely delightful and enjoyable.


----------



## duffer5

duas2noites said:


> I will buy ferrum stack and gustard r26, will use it with DCA Stealth.


I think you are going to be very pleased with that setup.  I also recommended doing a Fiber Media Converter setup for the best streaming experience. 
https://www.smallgreencomputer.com/collections/accessories/products/optical-isolation-bundle​All the needed components except the optional LPS can be purchased on Amazon for less than $100 USD.


----------



## kumar402

duffer5 said:


> I think you are going to be very pleased with that setup.  I also recommended doing a Fiber Media Converter setup for the best streaming experience.
> https://www.smallgreencomputer.com/collections/accessories/products/optical-isolation-bundle​All the needed components except the optional LPS can be purchased on Amazon for less than $100 USD.


Why would you pay $350 for some thing you can have for $50 + cost of 1 5v LPS and if you have LPS then you don't even need to buy LPS.


----------



## duffer5

kumar402 said:


> Why would you pay $350 for some thing you can have for $50 + cost of 1 5v LPS and if you have LPS then you don't even need to buy LPS.


Did you read my note below the link.  And I 100% agree...

"All the needed components except the optional LPS can be purchased on Amazon for less than $100 USD."


----------



## kumar402

duffer5 said:


> Did you read my note below the link.  And I 100% agree...
> 
> "All the needed components except the optional LPS can be purchased on Amazon for less than $100 USD."


I completely missed it and I totally agree with you.


----------



## ChJL

chesebert said:


> I wonder how many have already moved onto the next FOTM amp? Anyone still has their OOR after 5 months?


just to add another reply to your post... bought in June and no plans to upgrade the Fe stack! Although I have a few upgrades planned... Fe will be last/after DAC and it's probably the step before my "endgame Amp"


----------



## duffer5

ChJL said:


> just to add another reply to your post... bought in June and no plans to upgrade the Fe stack! Although I have a few upgrades planned... Fe will be last/after DAC and it's probably the step before my "endgame Amp"


I did the same. Look at the Gustard R26 this is what I landed on. Decided the DAC in my Hifi Rose 150b was underwhelming. Also considered the Holo Spring 3 KTE.


----------



## krude

ChJL said:


> just to add another reply to your post... bought in June and no plans to upgrade the Fe stack! Although I have a few upgrades planned... Fe will be last/after DAC and it's probably the step before my "endgame Amp"


What do you consider endgame out of curiosity?


----------



## ChJL

duffer5 said:


> I did the same. Look at the Gustard R26 this is what I landed on. Decided the DAC in my Hifi Rose 150b was underwhelming. Also considered the Holo Spring 3 KTE.


got the X26pro before the R26 came out... same here won't upgrade before enough money for a substantial step forward is in.


----------



## ChJL

krude said:


> What do you consider endgame out of curiosity?


pipedream: riviera balanced

right now, with "strategic saving" Zähl HM1 or Envy, something of that kind of "quality", another HP first though...


----------



## kenk

Had a chance to do a interesting test - was recently on some travel but had space to take the oor with the basic power supply and the Susvara. I had to run it in regular mode (with it acting as a volume / pre-amp). It was not bad sounding. I'm back using a 7a linear power supply, and a dac (Mytek Brooklyn Dac+) that controls the volume (power amp mode). There is significantly more impact/ dynamics, bass and there is more depth to the sound stage. If you haven't had a chance to try the OOR in power amp mode, do it! There are even measurements over at golden sound that show the OOR technically performs better this way (lower distortion).


----------



## nonamerat

sonicsailor said:


> Thanks for that feedback. I’ve been testing with different cables and various levels of humidity and am certain a static discharge is triggering the Oor to drop the signal and deliver only continuous static, sometimes only in one channel, very odd.
> The upside, if you can call it that, is that with my previous amp the static discharge was, painfully, to my ears; that amp was not grounded and the signal was never lost. So the grounding on the Oor makes the difference as the discharge is through the amp and not through my noggin.
> Over the long run, have you found it a significant inconvenience?



This quoted post is a bit dated, but I wanted to chime in and say I have the exact same thing going on. I'm also in CO so static is a problem. It has happened twice now when removing my headphones / getting up from the desk chair. Are you still using the OOR and have you seen any long term issues? I can adjust my headphone removal routine to get around it, but it certainly doesn't sound great.


----------



## Mkay

kenk said:


> If you haven't had a chance to try the OOR in power amp mode, do it!


This. I’ve been using the Oor/Hyspos for a few months with Arya Stealth headphones, and have been a little baffled over the praise heaped on the Ferrum stack. I’ve enjoyed listening using this combination, but my experiences never really fully aligned with the reviews and user feedback.

Using the Ferrum in power-amp mode made a noticeable improvement, and I feel like I’m hearing the amp at its full capacity for the first time.

My opinion of the Ferrum stack is now on-par with others that rate it very highly! I suspect that the quality of the DAC volume control plays heavily in this comparison, but if your streamer or DAC has (supposedly lossless) volume control, then it’s definitely worth trying out…


----------



## ChJL

Mkay said:


> This. I’ve been using the Oor/Hyspos for a few months with Arya Stealth headphones, and have been a little baffled over the praise heaped on the Ferrum stack. I’ve enjoyed listening using this combination, but my experiences never really fully aligned with the reviews and user feedback.
> 
> Using the Ferrum in power-amp mode made a noticeable improvement, and I feel like I’m hearing the amp at its full capacity for the first time.
> 
> My opinion of the Ferrum stack is now on-par with others that rate it very highly! I suspect that the quality of the DAC volume control plays heavily in this comparison, but if your streamer or DAC has (supposedly lossless) volume control, then it’s definitely worth trying out…


which DAC or streamer do you have that let's you use the OOR in power-amp mode?


----------



## Mkay

I have a Directstream Jr DAC, and a Lumin U1 Mini, both of which have volume control that is advertised as ‘lossless’. Both are fairly modest units, but work well together.


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## kenk

nonamerat said:


> This quoted post is a bit dated, but I wanted to chime in and say I have the exact same thing going on. I'm also in CO so static is a problem. It has happened twice now when removing my headphones / getting up from the desk chair. Are you still using the OOR and have you seen any long term issues? I can adjust my headphone removal routine to get around it, but it certainly doesn't sound great.


Are you using balanced mode? It may help.


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## kenk

ChJL said:


> which DAC or streamer do you have that let's you use the OOR in power-amp mode?


I'm using a Mytek Dac+, which was designed by Hem of Ferrum before he went out on his own at started Ferrum. If you look at some of the pictures in the factory you can actually see Mytek's all over.


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## nonamerat

kenk said:


> Are you using balanced mode? It may help.



Yes, I am. I am using a Norne S4 cable. I am going to try it with a few other cables to see if they help at all.


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## ChJL

kenk said:


> I'm using a Mytek Dac+, which was designed by Hem of Ferrum before he went out on his own at started Ferrum. If you look at some of the pictures in the factory you can actually see Mytek's all over.


Makes sense to me that they do their own thing now...
I have a X26pro which has volume control. Don't know if it's "lossless" and actually never though to use the OOR in power amp mode. Maybe with a tube pre but why not get a tube amp instead of only a preamp? 

Anyway I do have to turn that round thing on the rear from 0 to1 right?


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## OneEyedHito (Wednesday at 11:29 AM)

ChJL said:


> Makes sense to me that they do their own thing now...
> I have a X26pro which has volume control. Don't know if it's "lossless" and actually never though to use the OOR in power amp mode. Maybe with a tube pre but why not get a tube amp instead of only a preamp?
> 
> Anyway I do have to turn that round thing on the rear from 0 to1 right?


Yes you do. BE SURE YOUR DAC volume control or preamp is not turned up loudly when you do it if you have a source and output device connected.


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## ChJL

Just put it in power amp mode and without music there is a noticeable background noise, humming.


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## DivinesGaming

ChJL said:


> Just put it in power amp mode and without music there is a noticeable background noise, humming.


Odd mine has literally zero with and without hypsos


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## krude

ChJL said:


> Just put it in power amp mode and without music there is a noticeable background noise, humming.


Is that with disconnected inputs? Which headphones?


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## OhHeyItsLou

cglin222 said:


> Pretty happy with my rig, sr purple on the 3 gustards


What component rack is that, Solid Steel?


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## bluenight (Thursday at 3:26 PM)

I am quite happy with the single ended output with AKG K371 in the past i think i posted that it was lacking in bass with HD800S and HD650 in SE and sounded dry and to much midrange emphasis. Bass is as good as i want it with AKG K371 it reaches deep enough also rtings measurements show it can reach down to 20hz on this HP.  Also burn in time on amp can have played a role here. I like to revisit HD800S and HD650 in SE also soon when i have the time.

HD800S in balanced mode i dont think its lacking in bass either and the sound is balanced overall i think. Although from memory i think Lake People RS 02 had a richer tonality with more weight and musicaly engaging with my HP's.

AKG K371 letted me know that Hugo2 is the superior dac over the built in CXNv2 dac. I had used the CXNv2 dac for 6 months and some days ago i went back to Hugo2 dac connected to Ferrum stack. Even though i only can use my cheap and old Chord Crimson RCA (around $800 year 2007) cable with Hugo2 because of the small connector holes. And with CXNv2 i use Atlas Mavros RCA with grun (around $1,200). Goes to show dac is more importent then cable used. Even though i always have thought chord crimson is a bang for the buck  with huge soundstage and detailed enough imo not veiled with sparkling treble.


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## ChJL

krude said:


> Is that with disconnected inputs? Which headphones?


Everything connected as before... D8Kpro, old hd700, didn't bother to try the other ones was, really in your face noticeably, unfortunately and I also don't know why, will ask Ferrum though...


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## DavidWhite

ChJL said:


> Everything connected as before... D8Kpro, old hd700, didn't bother to try the other ones was, really in your face noticeably, unfortunately and I also don't know why, will ask Ferrum though...


For humming noise, one possible cause is DAC picking up the EM interference from PSU like Hypsos. Try to move DAC as far away from Power conditioner or PSU and see if that helps.


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## kenk

ChJL said:


> Everything connected as before... D8Kpro, old hd700, didn't bother to try the other ones was, really in your face noticeably, unfortunately and I also don't know why, will ask Ferrum though...


Are you connected with balanced cables? If not, I would try that.


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## Somatic (Yesterday at 2:30 PM)

I am not sure anyone mentioned this before.

BEWARE of putting the OOR/HYPSOS directly on your wooden desk. You will end up getting black rings on the wood and will be unable to take off. I used these instead and they worked well with no damage to your desk. FYI.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B095JY5CML/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1


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## SilverAlc

Hi mates, despite not reading the thread completely, I wanted to ask you directly, how much % does the amp lose without the dedicated Hypsos ? Has anyone tested the LCDX and Focal Clear MG headphones with this amplifier to say how is the synergy with both? I imagine it will be a nice improvement over an a90 topping paired with a gustard R26.
I am thinking about it for the next offers and I would like to consider this amplifier in case, to make a staggered purchase, first amp, hypsos later.
Thanks for your help as always.


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## krude

SilverAlc said:


> Hi mates, despite not reading the thread completely, I wanted to ask you directly, how much % does the amp lose without the dedicated Hypsos ? Has anyone tested the LCDX and Focal Clear MG headphones with this amplifier to say how is the synergy with both? I imagine it will be a nice improvement over an a90 topping paired with a gustard R26.
> I am thinking about it for the next offers and I would like to consider this amplifier in case, to make a staggered purchase, first amp, hypsos later.
> Thanks for your help as always.


It should be a nice step up from A90. Adding Hypsos will improve it by another 20%. You can check an LPS 22v to 26v as an alternative (search this thread for details). It should sound great with r26 in nos and your cans (pretty much any cans).


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