# Bought both Adam A5 and Adam A7 on same day - what to do?



## Patrick82

I had an ad running for half a year and then I gave up and bought a new pair of A5 and they were shipped to me, then a few hours later I got a response to my ad and someone wants to sell me A7 for the same price I bought my A5 new. I received my A5 a couple hours ago and in 3 hours I will go and meet the guy who wants to sell me the A7.
 What will I do? I will sell my Adam A5 and lose money?


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## Patrick82

I took one of them out from the box and took pictures. Should I purchase a TV and use the A5 for that? But I never watch TV.


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## Patrick82

Does anyone think that new Adam A5 could sound better than used Adam A7? He said they are 1.5 years old and he hasn't used them much.


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## leveller1642

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone think that new Adam A5 could sound better than used Adam A7? He said they are 1.5 years old and he hasn't used them much._

 

No way. The A5 sound great and although i haven't heard the A7, but with the A7's twice as much power, bass extension etc, they would have to be superior.


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leveller1642* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No way. The A5 sound great and although i haven't heard the A7, but with the A7's twice as much power, bass extension etc, they would have to be superior._

 

How about when listening at the lowest volume? I have the A7 on my desk now and I used the lowest -60dB gain on the speakers and it sounded weird. Then I reduced the volume on my EMU0404 and used higher gain on the speakers and it sounds better. I guess I need to try the A5 to hear it for myself, but then I can't sell them for "brand new" price anymore.


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## Patrick82

*First impressions A7:* Bass is too big, the lower end is too warm and the higher end too cold, but I'm not using all of my tweaks so the highs will become silky after I have finished tweaking, but those tweaks will also make the bass even bigger and warmer, I'm worried that it won't sound good then. Maybe A5 are better for me. I sit 50 cm from the speakers and I don't need so much power.


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## Patrick82

*First impressions A5: *I switched to A5, these are not burned in so the comparison is messed up, but I will do it anyway.

 The bass is missing and it sounds very incomplete. It sounds like cheap desktop gaming speakers. The lower end is missing which makes the mid bass more emphasized along with the higher frequencies, it sounds very clean and cold. This sounds similar to K1000 which is the sound I'm used to, that's why I like the A5 more than A7. Perhaps I need to get used to the fullness of the A7?


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## Patrick82

Now I placed the A5 on top of A7 to A/B better. The A5 have more bass when they are placed higher than my ears, I think it's because the bigger driver now is closer than the tweeter. When I stand up from the chair I hear more emphasis of higher frequencies.


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## Patrick82

Now it is past 11 pm so I have decreased the volume 3 dB in Foobar. The music is now lower than the fan noise from my laptop.

 I was not impressed of either speaker, nothing happened. But then I connected my stack of nine RGC-24 Ground Conditioners and got a HUGE improvement in high frequency resolution, it sounds very silky with crazy transients! OMG!


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## Patrick82

The longer I listen the harder it is to decide which of these speakers I will keep and which I will sell. The difference between the performance of speakers isn't big...like with sources and amps I just hear big side stepping into different flavors. The tweaks are what gives the real improvements.


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## SethSil

and to think that all it took was an 800 dollar "ground conditioner" to make some 500 dollar speakers sound acceptable.


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## Patrick82

With A5 I can use higher volume at night without disturbing neighbors since the bass doesn't go as low as A7. Maybe I will keep both of them, A5 for the night and A7 for the day. Is it a good idea?

 I was going to buy a bed with the money but I will keep both speakers instead of buying a bed. Right now I'm sleeping on the floor, I rather spend the money on audio.


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## leveller1642

I find my A5s sound better at lower volumes. When I crank them up they sound a little congested. I got an Adam Sub7 a few weeks ago and it has helped somewhat when I turn the sub's crossover to 150 Hz. I was using a Apogee Duet, but just got a Cambridge Dacmagic, which seems better matched than the Duet. I am using RCA cables now but will get balanced XLR cables soon, so hopefully i will see a further slight improvement. 

 I run my setup off a good quality sinewave inverter that is feed by a bank of batteries, so I don't have any power quality issues.


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## koven

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SethSil* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_and to think that all it took was an 800 dollar "ground conditioner" to make some 500 dollar speakers sound acceptable._

 

lmao


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leveller1642* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I find my A5s sound better at lower volumes. When I crank them up they sound a little congested. I got an Adam Sub7 a few weeks ago and it has helped somewhat when I turn the sub's crossover to 150 Hz. I was using a Apogee Duet, but just got a Cambridge Dacmagic, which seems better matched than the Duet. I am using RCA cables now but will get balanced XLR cables soon, so hopefully i will see a further slight improvement. 

 I run my setup off a good quality sinewave inverter that is feed by a bank of batteries, so I don't have any power quality issues._

 

Maybe A5 could be better than A7 in midrange resolution since they use smaller drivers? I don't want to sacrifice the mids for a few Hz lower bass.

 The tweeters of both speakers are identical (?) but they sound different because A5 aren't burned in yet...resolution of A5 keeps improving the whole time I listen to them. They sound like K1000 but without the rolled off highs.

 BTW. Do you also hear hiss from the tweeters when the music is paused? I hear the hiss from both A5 and A7 and I'm using stock RCA cables now.


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## Patrick82

I switched to A7 and the mids were gone, I could hear bass and highs but the vocals were less apparent which made it sound very dark. It sounds very full compared to A5, I'm not used to this sound. I want music to sound open, clean and transparent which comes from rolled off frequency extremes. K1000 had only midrange driver, it gave me the best sound for my 192 kbps mp3's, together with Valhalla headphone cable it sounded like real life. But the A7 doesn't sound like real life, it sounds too dark, A5 is much closer to real life than A7, I need to burn it in a few thousand hours to find out if the midrange resolution is better. One thing I don't like with the A5 are the grilles in front of the drivers, the A7 don't have any grilles.


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SethSil* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_and to think that all it took was an 800 dollar "ground conditioner" to make some 500 dollar speakers sound acceptable._

 

Without any tweaks the A7 sounds better than A5 because the harshness in the mids and highs become more apparent if the bass is gone from A5, people like the warmer sound from A7 more. A5 sounded like cheap desktop speakers because they were so cold and edgy, but K1000 sounded like that too because they revealed problems in the audio system. Instead of adding warmth with bigger drivers you can add smoothness with tweaks, it makes the midrange more realistic. I believe A7 will sound much muddier with lower resolution than A5 after I have completed tweaking.

 Also, the A5 draws less power than A7 which gives better sound based on my experiments. I was using dCS Elgar Plus DAC but overall I get better sound from EMU0404 USB because of less wattage draw.


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## Patrick82

I picked up Adam A7 on the other side of the city with subway. I took some teasing pics of me undressing them.


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## krmathis

Sell the A5's, cause those A7's looks a lot nicer (imo). Black over white color...


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## Quaddy

adding adam angled stands to a5 or a7 will make much better auditory trajectory


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## Cryingmonkey

Patrick82;6073551I was going to buy a bed with the money but I will keep both speakers instead of buying a bed. Right now I'm sleeping on the floor said:
			
		

> I think we all should strive to live this way.


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## Patrick82

I switched the stock interconnects into Valhalla and it fixed the midrange problem of A7.

 I invited my girlfriend over and she sat down in the corner on top of my Hello Kitty bed spread. She was wearing pigtails, pink shirt and Hello Kitty lipgloss which I purchased for her a few days earlier. I turned on the music with Adam A5 and then I switched to Adam A7, she said the A7 sounded better. While she was doing her homework for a few hours I was tweaking my Valhalla cable on the floor (soldering etc), the music was turned on the whole time so she got used to the sound. Then she went to the toilet and I switched the stock interconnect into Valhalla while she was gone. When she came back I asked her if it sounds different, she said "It sounds sharper". Then she asked me stuff about where to buy the Valhalla cable etc. My girlfriend likes Valhalla cable!

*First impressions Valhalla for Adam A7:* Midrange is alive and it sounds very clean, fast, open and transparent. Highs are crazy fast and clear with the smooth whiteness signature of Valhalla. Bass is tighter and more controlled! There is more detail everywhere, I hear sounds I didn't hear before!

 I am using Dual Filament 16awg Valhalla as interconnects, I sliced them out from Valhalla power cord, they are like unshielded Odin but cheaper. They are too thick as interconnects but they are surprisingly good! The sound is both colder and smoother, Valhalla flavor is amazing!


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## Patrick82

I tried Magix for A7 and there is less than 1mm margin to make Magix fit under them. But I couldn't hear huge improvements in resolution like with K1000. Then I mass dampened the A7 and the background got quieter. I tried Magix under EMU and laptop and the improvement wasn't as big as I hoped.

 I don't think Adam A7 needs Magix and ERS Paper, it already sounds good without them because A7 are resolution limited. Synergy is great with all the detail and speed tweaks; Synapses2 power cables, Judge power cable, Valhalla interconnect, crazy speed!


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## Quaddy

/\ I hope you don't mind that I put down in words
 How wonderful life is while you're in the world


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## Patrick82

I let my EMU warm-up a few days and tried the Magix tweak again. Magix under the Adam A7 made the transients smoother. When I removed Magix it sounded bright and fatiguing, I got a headache.
 Then I put Magix under my EMU and got smoother transients and more depth.

 Also, maybe the Adam A7 drivers aren't resolution limited, maybe my hearing is. I switched from K1000 to ER4P and adapted my hearing to edgy sound, now I need to adapt back to smoother sound. I was in the bathtub playing with the water, it sounded very smooth and liquid, I couldn't hear transients in the splattering water, it sounded too smooth, I didn't like it. I wished I had Valhalla cable with me in the bathtub which makes the water more edgy and fresh.

 I will let my ears adapt to smoother sound and try if more Magix are needed. However, I'm worried of putting Magix under the speakers because my girlfriend will bring cats and dogs over and maybe they will start swinging the speakers, they stand too loose on top of Magix, I tried mass damping them by stacking stuff on top of them, but it just looked more dangerous.
 Also, how will I protect my Judge power cable from getting chewed on?


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## Quaddy

smear or spray judge with anti-pet gel, this also provides good dampening characteristics, similar to all brass clamps

 they will remember the unpleasant taste after the first nibble and wont return to the judge again!

 BTW are you getting a cutout at all on the A-series? i mean to say, that after either a while or a low input to the speakers, the sound will cut out until the volume is raised substantially to 'awaken' it?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, how will I protect my Judge power cable from getting chewed on?_


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Quaddy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_smear or spray judge with anti-pet gel, this also provides good dampening characteristics, similar to all brass clamps

 they will remember the unpleasant taste after the first nibble and wont return to the judge again!_

 

I suddenly feel the urge of wrapping everything with ERS Paper again. When girlfriend asks "What is all that ugly paper for?" I will say "They are to protect your pets from electrocution". Good plan yes?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Quaddy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW are you getting a cut out at all on the A-series? i mean to say, that after either a while or a low input to the speakers, the sound will cut out until the volume is raised substantially to 'awaken' it?_

 

I haven't heard this. I am using 10 o'clock on the EMU and 4 clicks up on the Adam A7, I tried lowest volume on Adam and higher on EMU but it sounded bad.


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## Patrick82

My girlfriend brought a CD which she got from school (Blood Music - Don Quite), I put it inside my laptop and it was vibrating like crazy and the table was humming loud from resonance.
 Next time I took out Feet of Silence from my bag, she asked "what are those?", I did not respond. Then I put them under my laptop and started the CD again, she said "it sounds pretty now". Then I put Feet of Silence under the Adam A7 speakers and we listened to the CD again, I asked if she can hear a difference, she said no. However, we were lying down in bed and she was feeding me chips and licking my ear so the improvements were difficult to hear. I couldn't hear that well because my left ear was resting against a pillow, but even then I could hear an improvement in clarity and depth. The realism was so scary it gave me adrenaline in my chest. I could hear more ambient space and body. Everything was faster and more detailed. It gave me a headache. 

 I remember when I first got Feet of Silence a few years ago, the increase in speed gave me a headache for 2 months. Feet of Silence are similar to Valhalla analog cable which improves the low-level detail while boosting up the whiteness and blackness in the sound which makes it sound more realistic. 

 Magix sound warm and flat with more resolution, Feet of Silence sound round and edgy with fake blackness and clarity. But perhaps Feet of Silence is a better synergy match with the warm Adam A7.


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## Patrick82




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## Patrick82

I did some upgrades!

 1) I did vibration isolation in multiple steps with *Feet of Silence + Magix + mass damping* on top of the laptop. I got crazy improvement in low-level detail while still sounding like the Feet of Silence signature, but more true and neutral. Mass damping made it very black with clear details. It was better than best of both worlds!

 2) My laptop fan has failed and sounds very loud. Instead of replacing the fan I purchased *Asrock nettop ion 330*. It sounded too warm, dry and annoying, the blackness and clarity was gone but there was more low-level detail. I remember my old ERS Paper experiments for my computer, with ERS Paper it was better and more neutral but I never liked the dry sound, I wanted my transport to be jittery to give fake realism.

 Now my nettop is nude and still sounds warm. It's because of lower wattage (this confirms my findings that low wattage transport gives more smoothness and resolution). To further test it I underclocked the nettop to the lowest voltages possible, I also disabled everything I could in BIOS. I listened and it sounded CRAZY warm with more low-level detail! I further compared Windows XP + Foobar vs Ubuntu + Amarok. The Ubuntu sounded a little warmer, but not much.

 At this point it was unbearable to listen. I also have a problem, with the nettop I can't get 2560x1600, the highest I get is 1280x800. Perhaps that also gives better sound because of lower wattage.

 3) I switched the Adam A7 into Adam A5 and it sounded clear and tight! The synergy is much better! Low-level detail is at least as good as A7. The resolution and speed appears better but it might be fake because there is harshness added on top of the music (the A5 aren't burned in yet).

 I'm lucky nobody bought the A5 from me, now I put the A5 back and get great audio! 

 4) My girlfriend was sad and said I like my cables more than I like her, I said no I don't, she said yes you do, I said nothing and continued tweaking. Maybe I'm pushing it but it is ERS Paper time!


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_4) My girlfriend was sad and said I like my cables more than I like her, I said no I don't, she said yes you do, I said nothing and continued tweaking. Maybe I'm pushing it but it is ERS Paper time!_

 

I just asked my underage girlfriend if she wants to get married this week, she said yes. Her mother will sign the documents so it is ok. Should I wait with the ERS Paper tweak until we are married or do it now?

 Also, I don't have a ring, I will build a ring from Valhalla cable?


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## krmathis

Wait!
 No need to upset her even more, at least not until you have married her.


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## 883dave

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_4) My girlfriend was sad and said I like my cables more than I like her, I said no I don't, she said yes you do, I said nothing and continued tweaking. Maybe I'm pushing it but it is ERS Paper time!_

 

Have you though of using the cables for a bondage fantasy?. Maybe then she will like them.
 I would not use EMS paper, I don't think she would appreciate being wrapped in EMS paper. Try the cables first, if she is responsive who knows, maybe she will also have an EMS paper fettish


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## Quaddy

the skin effect on cables isnt worth getting into


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## Omega17TheTrue

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did some upgrades!

 Now my nettop is nude and still sounds warm. It's because of lower wattage (this confirms my findings that low wattage transport gives more smoothness and resolution). To further test it I underclocked the nettop to the lowest voltages possible, I also disabled everything I could in BIOS. I listened and it sounded CRAZY warm with more low-level detail! I further compared Windows XP + Foobar vs Ubuntu + Amarok. The Ubuntu sounded a little warmer, but not much._

 

Have you heard of cMP² ? I am sure you will love it, if i can revive my broken laptop i put this on it.


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## Patrick82

Ok, I couldn't wait with the ERS Paper, my scissor hand was itching to tweak!

 I put ERS Paper foam tubes around the dual filament Valhalla interconnect. I also put ERS Paper around the mouse cable (it is hidden under a wooden board). Now I also have Feet of Silence + Magix under my Adam A5 speakers (I added Magix). I also put the stock extension strip on top of Feet of Silence (was on table before).

*Impressions:* I hear a new world of low-level detail. Bass is crazy HUGE and tight! There is a lot more resolution, it sounds completely different now! My previous upgrades were subtle compared to this. It's because of the ERS Paper.


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## scootermafia

Why are you putting ERS over your mouse cable....come on man.

 Have you considered some more powerful T-amps? Also, have you ever heard a headphone amp like a Beta22? Because nobody thinks you are getting the best possible sound with $200 worth of gear and $50,000 worth of tweaks.


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## IPodPJ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scootermafia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Because nobody thinks you are getting the best possible sound with $200 worth of gear and $50,000 worth of tweaks._

 

That's an extreme understatement.


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scootermafia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why are you putting ERS over your mouse cable....come on man.

 Have you considered some more powerful T-amps? Also, have you ever heard a headphone amp like a Beta22? Because nobody thinks you are getting the best possible sound with $200 worth of gear and $50,000 worth of tweaks._

 

I have tried many amps and I didn't hear an improvement, only a side step into another flavor. I also tried dCS Elgar Plus DAC and dCS Verdi Encore SACD transport, they made my audio worse because of higher wattage (more noise). I get better sound with EMU0404 USB, but that's only because of the tweaks. Without any tweaks the dCS is better. But when both are tweaked to the max, the EMU is the best because of shorter signal path and lower wattage.

 I made a long thread about the dCS Verdi Encore noise problem over Firewire, I couldn't fix it. There was noise running through the Firewire cable and I could reduce the problem by fine tuning the amount of RGC-24 Ground Conditioners on each side of the cable.


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## Patrick82

I tweaked further by mass dampening the speakers. I found that the mass dampening made a far greater improvement than adding Magix between Feet of Silence and speakers. I got loads more resolution and depth in the music.

 I was using books to mass dampen the speakers but I didn't manage to make it look pretty enough, even if I did, the tweaking would never stop. I have much more ERS Paper tweaks to do as well as room treatments. Some day my wife will come home and see egg crates taped to the walls among other things, but it won't stop there, I will continue until the tweaks will be so extreme that there will be lethal injuries. So I decided to stop and removed the Magix under the speakers as well as the ERS Paper around the Valhalla interconnect. It sounded very white end edgy with lack of resoluton. Then I put the Magix back and I heard smooth whiteness which came from RFI/EMI + Magix veil.

 I discovered that in an overly bright and edgy system, using Magix will smoothen out the brightness which will give fake realism similar to a nude, short and fat Valhalla power cord (link). However, the Magix doesn't reduce resolution like the Valhalla power cord does, it increases it. The Magix doesn't add fake bass size either, but that I have compensated for with Synapses2 power cables (Synapses2 is like Valhalla on steroids!).

 Ever since I tried Magix for the first time I have heard a similar sound as tubes, it was very silky but it didn't reduce the resolution like tubes do. Magix veils the sound and makes it smoother while increasing a little bit of resolution, when adding weight on top you get more sharpness and depth while doubling the resolution, the improvement is crazy! Magix without mass dampening is only useful as a tone control for overly bright systems.


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## krmathis

So you are newlywed (just last week), but still not able to take a break from tweaking? Oh, oh!
 May I ask where you plan to bring your underage wife for the honeymoon. A guided tour at the Nordost factory maybe..?


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *krmathis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So you are newlywed (just last week), but still not able to take a break from tweaking? Oh, oh!
 May I ask where you plan to bring your underage wife for the honeymoon. A guided tour at the Nordost factory maybe..? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Traveling with underage girl in airplane requires two adults to be present so I won't be able to take her to Nordost factory. However, the rules might be different when she is my wife. If the customs at USA won't let me through, I will go to Canada to Virtual Dynamics factory.


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## krmathis

Happy honeymoon!


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## MadMan007

Always entertaining.

 Hey Patrick, have you ever considered ERS papering _your head_? After all, the brain is an electrochemical processor so I'd think that ERS papering it would block out any extraneous RF signals that must affect the neurons with the side benefit of hopefully replacing the need for a less fashionable tinfoil hat.

 I found this portrayal of Patrick on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uFLCYlXpkw






 just having some fun my tweak-crazy friend.


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## leveller1642

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW. Do you also hear hiss from the tweeters when the music is paused? I hear the hiss from both A5 and A7 and I'm using stock RCA cables now._

 

Sorry about the delay in replying. 

 Mine seem fairly quiet. I tried by stopping the music, turning the volume all the way up and putting my ear to the tweeter. I couldn't hear anything, but my laptop's fan was running and my hearing is far from perfect.


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leveller1642* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry about the delay in replying. 

 Mine seem fairly quiet. I tried by stopping the music, turning the volume all the way up and putting my ear to the tweeter. I couldn't hear anything, but my laptop's fan was running and my hearing is far from perfect._

 

On the lowest volume setting when I put my ear against the tweeter I hear about 30 dB hiss, it doesn't get much louder when I increase the volume. I use two systems now: 1) Laptop 3.5mm to RCA input of Adam A7. 2) Nettop to EMU0404 USB and TRS to XLR of Adam A5. I hear this hiss from both. I have 230voltage input, do you have something else?


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MadMan007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Always entertaining.

 Hey Patrick, have you ever considered ERS papering your head? After all, the brain is an electrochemical processor so I'd think that ERS papering it would block out any extraneous RF signals that must affect the neurons with the side benefit of hopefully replacing the need for a less fashionable tinfoil hat.

 I found this portrayal of Patrick on youtube: YouTube - (Batman) Michael Keaton - You wanna get nuts?? Come on, let get nuts.







 just having some fun my tweak-crazy friend._

 

Yes, I have been planning to use a shielding additive for my laundry so that my listening performance becomes better. But since it's expensive in the long run I have decided to do it last when there is no other tweak to do.


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## Cya|\|

Very interesting read.
 Since i heard very good of ribbon (or amt) tweeters, i wanted to buy a pair of desktop (pc) speakers with ribbon tweeters.
 I wanted the best, so i was looking at the new adam s1x. Then i red that the eton (the woofers the S serie uses) have audibly worse midrange than seas excel (magnesium cones).
 So i got a handcrafter and custom designer to build me a pair of speakers for my needs.

 Here they are: Some new designs are coming in the next month or so.

 They are small, so they fit on my desktop, and they are sealed (less cabinet volume required, USUALLY better sounding). I'll cross them at 80hz with a sealed peerless 10'' subwoofer.


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cya|\|* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very interesting read.
 Since i heard very good of ribbon (or amt) tweeters, i wanted to buy a pair of desktop (pc) speakers with ribbon tweeters.
 I wanted the best, so i was looking at the new adam s1x. Then i red that the eton (the woofers the S serie uses) have audibly worse midrange than seas excel (magnesium cones).
 So i got a handcrafter and custom designer to build me a pair of speakers for my needs.

 Here they are: Some new designs are coming in the next month or so.

 They are small, so they fit on my desktop, and they are sealed (less cabinet volume required, USUALLY better sounding). I'll cross them at 80hz with a sealed peerless 10'' subwoofer._

 

So the S1X will be a bad buy? I could just replace the driver on my A5 or A7 with magnesium cone? The tweeters on A5 / A7 and S1X are the same?


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## Cya|\|

On the s1x they put an upgraded version of the tweeter art, wich is the x-art.
 I don't think u can simply replace cones, as crossover parameters are different.
 The S1x is not a bad buy at all, infact, they also include an amplifier, and use an ab amplifier for the tweeter.
 But i'd buy my speakers over and over. Simply because i prefer sealed box (since i use a suboowfer, i believe that a reflex is not needed, if not worse). And the magnesium woofer has much more details than the eton (nomex+kevlar) in the midrange ( HTGuide Forum - Eton or Seas Drivers for studio monitors ).

 Also, the finnish of the cabinet of my speakers, is simply 10 times better than the s1x 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, wich is only good looking in studios.


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cya|\|* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On the s1x they put an upgraded version of the tweeter art, wich is the x-art.
 I don't think u can simply replace cones, as crossover parameters are different.
 The S1x is not a bad buy at all, infact, they also include an amplifier, and use an ab amplifier for the tweeter.
 But i'd buy my speakers over and over. Simply because i prefer sealed box (since i use a suboowfer, i believe that a reflex is not needed, if not worse). And the magnesium woofer has much more details than the eton (nomex+kevlar) in the midrange ( HTGuide Forum - Eton or Seas Drivers for studio monitors ).

 Also, the finnish of the cabinet of my speakers, is simply 10 times better than the s1x 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, wich is only good looking in studios._

 

Is your tweeter x-art too?


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## Cya|\|

Nope, mine is a normal ribbon. My tweeter is "worse" than the adam x-art.
 Usually the difference between a ribbon tweeter and an AMT (a tweeter like the art), is that the amt can be crossed at a lower frequency. Infact the adam s1x is cut at 2.2khz i think.
 But my speaker designer succeded in crossing well at 3.2khz (as just said, the ribbon requires a higher crossover point).
 A normal ribbon tweeter quality is excelent, i believe it can beat even normal tweeters (dome tweeters) that cost 300$, and people say there is little difference of quality among ribbon tweeters. It's more a matter of possibility to cross lower.


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## Maxvla

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was going to buy a bed with the money but I will keep both speakers instead of buying a bed. Right now I'm sleeping on the floor, I rather spend the money on audio._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_However, we were lying down in bed_


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Maxvla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_



_

 

Yes, we call our floor as "bed".


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## Patrick82

I still don't know what I will do with both speakers, right now I use Adam A7 for movies and Adam A5 for music which are on top of my kitchen table, there is no room to place the food other than on top of the speakers. My girlfriend came into the apartment and asked "don't we have a kitchen table?" I didn't know how to respond. Should I be worried?


----------



## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Maxvla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_



_

 

Perhaps my girlfriend is placebo and not really there, this would explain numerous things. I always wondered why a tweaker like me can get a girl like her, it is too good to be true, especially the part where she likes Valhalla cable (am I dreaming?). I want to take pictures of her (to brag to head-fi) but she is too shy for the camera. There is no way to prove she really exists, like there is no way to prove that ERS Paper, Magix, cables etc make improvements to the audio system.

 I don't think there has been any studies of how long-term audio tweaking affects the body. If all the tweaking is placebo and when the audio system is completed the placebo must continue somewhere else (girlfriend hobby). When I come to think of it, when my headphone hobby was completed my girlfriend magically appeared.

 EDIT: I think if I start extreme tweaking again and tape egg crates on the walls, my girlfriend will disappear again.


----------



## Omega17TheTrue

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Perhaps my girlfriend is placebo and not really there, this would explain numerous things. I always wondered why a tweaker like me can get a girl like her, it is too good to be true, especially the part where she likes Valhalla cable (am I dreaming?). I want to take pictures of her (to brag to head-fi) but she is too shy for the camera. There is no way to prove she really exists, like there is no way to prove that ERS Paper, Magix, cables etc make improvements to the audio system._

 

Is it her ?


----------



## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Omega17TheTrue* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it her ?_

 

I forgot about that picture (I took it while she wasn't looking), so this proves that I don't have placebo of my audio tweaks then?
 I wonder if skeptics see this picture too. If they do, it won't be long until they wrap themselves with ERS Paper and levitate on Magix too!


----------



## Cya|\|

Why don't u go with adam a5 + 2 subs?
 I believe there is no reason to hate subs in music, if you use 2. Graphics and math theories demonstrate that 2 subs eliminate the problems the environment causes on 1 sub.
 I only have 1 sub, and with the right crossover settings i have a very nice sound.


----------



## Maxvla

Pat, 

 You have done so well over the years, but lately this stuff just doesn't satisfy. The holes are easier to spot and you reply too often! Take your time and come up with better content.

 The scary part of all of this is that you do actually buy these things.


----------



## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Maxvla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pat, 

 You have done so well over the years, but lately this stuff just doesn't satisfy. The holes are easier to spot and you reply too often! Take your time and come up with better content.

 The scary part of all of this is that you do actually buy these things._

 

What holes?


----------



## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cya|\|* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nope, mine is a normal ribbon. My tweeter is "worse" than the adam x-art.
 Usually the difference between a ribbon tweeter and an AMT (a tweeter like the art), is that the amt can be crossed at a lower frequency. Infact the adam s1x is cut at 2.2khz i think.
 But my speaker designer succeded in crossing well at 3.2khz (as just said, the ribbon requires a higher crossover point).
 A normal ribbon tweeter quality is excelent, i believe it can beat even normal tweeters (dome tweeters) that cost 300$, and people say there is little difference of quality among ribbon tweeters. It's more a matter of possibility to cross lower._

 

So I should still upgrade to Adam S1X and replace the drivers with magnesium cone? I can practice tweaking my A7, I have already planned to replace internal wiring with Valhalla.


----------



## Cya|\|

First of all, do you know what a crossover is? It's the hardest thing to do in speakers. It's not a simple driver replacing.
 You could simply buy the s1x, wich are very good for their price (as they include the amplifier too).
 OFC (wich doesn't stand for ofc copper 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





), if you have the money.


----------



## Quaddy

muhhahahaaaa 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cya|\|* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OFC (wich doesn't stand for ofc copper 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), [size=small]*if you have the money*[/size]._


----------



## Maxvla

I have to ask, Pat, have you ever been to a head-fi meet in your area?


----------



## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Maxvla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have to ask, Pat, have you ever been to a head-fi meet in your area?_

 

No, I think they would beat me up because I give a bad reputation to swedes.


----------



## Sebhelyesfarku

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, I think they would beat me up because I give a bad reputation to swedes._

 

Remind them that ABBA is still there to polish the reputation.


----------



## Patrick82

I have been listening to Adam A5 for a few days, then I put them back into the box and started using my A7 again, it sounds like a huge downgrade! The vocal information is gone, there is no resolution, it sounds dark and muddy. I don't know what to do, I thought A7 would be better since they are more expensive, but they are much worse. I have for sale ads in 3 places for my A5, but right now I just want to remove the ads. I want to sell my A7 instead but don't have a box, how will I ship them?


----------



## Patrick82

Ok, I put for sale ad for the A7, I want to sell both A7 and A5 and move back to headphones. Speakers don't impress me. Now I just need to find headphones which are better than K1000. Time to try electrostatic headphones?


----------



## Cya|\|

So, the k1000 sound better than the adams?


----------



## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cya|\|* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, the k1000 sound better than the adams?_

 

Adam A7 sound dark with edgy highs like HD590, Adam A5 sound open and clean like K1000. With A5 the need of ERS Paper isn't as great as with K1000, which means the K1000 have more midrange resolution than A5, however, the A5 have more resolution in the high frequencies than K1000. With K1000 vs Adam A5 I think it's a tie. But A7 are far worse than both, it's for movie watching only.


----------



## mypasswordis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, I put for sale ad for the A7, I want to sell both A7 and A5 and move back to headphones. Speakers don't impress me. Now I just need to find headphones which are better than K1000. Time to try electrostatic headphones?_

 

Definitely. Electrostats have extremely high transparency and extremely low distortion, plus you get to play with a couple hundred volts of bias.


----------



## Omega17TheTrue

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ But A7 are far worse than both, it's for movie watching only._

 


 Maybe because the A7 are too near from your listening position ? Bigger speakers usually need more space between them and the listener to give their best.


----------



## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Omega17TheTrue* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe because the A7 are too near from your listening position ? Bigger speakers usually need more space between them and the listener to give their best._

 

Do you mean if I sit further away and increase the volume I will get more resolution?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you mean if I sit further away and increase the volume I will get more resolution?_

 

Yes, with some speakers that helps.

 However, you should sell both the A5 and A7 and get some electrostatic headphones for now. Then take your time looking for a speaker that gives you everything you want, and don't just compromise on the sound like you have been doing (one has good mids and no bass, the other good bass with no mids, maybe the next one will have it all).


----------



## Cya|\|

Dude, don't sell the a5, add a subwoofer to them...
 If you live in America buy a 12'' of these: Rythmik Audio &bull; Servo subwoofer products
 You'll sell your pants after you try them with that sub 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








.
 As i've already told, i have nearfield small spekers + subwoofer, and the sound difference is night and day.


----------



## Omega17TheTrue

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cya|\|* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dude, don't sell the a5, add a subwoofer to them..._

 

x2

 Buying a good subwoofer with the money of the a7 is the better thing to do.


----------



## The-One

I stumbled upon this thread today and I find most of it utterly ridiculous.

 Your personal life Patrick seems to be highly entertaining. Kudos to finding a wife when you don't have a bed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 However, the audio aspects are just way off.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SethSil* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
and to think that all it took was an 800 dollar "ground conditioner" to make some 500 dollar speakers sound acceptable.

 

lmao_

 

That and amongst other things, I totally don't get whole thing from wrapping your entire setup in paper to changing your laptop's resolution lower to save on wattage to improve the sound, wot?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The point of a USB DAC is so that the laptop doesn't interfere with the sound.

 If you're going to put them on a desk and not have it sympathetically vibrate from the speaker cabinet resonance, buy a pair of these.

Auralex MoPADs | Dolphin Music

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you mean if I sit further away and increase the volume I will get more resolution?_

 

No, you've just lost extra headroom. The A7s are nearfield studio monitors, they were designed for applications at a close range, as long as you have it angled towards you with your head making a triangle with the speakers, it's fine.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Maxvla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pat, 

 You have done so well over the years, but lately this stuff just doesn't satisfy. The holes are easier to spot and you reply too often! Take your time and come up with better content.

 The scary part of all of this is that you do actually buy these things._

 

Like below

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Then I mass dampened the A7 and the background got quieter._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tweaked further by mass dampening the speakers. I found that the mass dampening made a far greater improvement than adding Magix between Feet of Silence and speakers. I got loads more resolution and depth in the music._

 

That's just not what mass dampening is meant to do, which is to lessen physical vibrations passed on from speaker cabinet resonances etc causing audible sypathetic vibrations from the surface the cabinet is placed upon. How can it improve the background or the music AT ALL unless somehow you ALWAYS play music that has bass at a such a frequency which makes your speaker cabinets resonate that when placed on your table which in turn makes the table sympathetically vibrate audibly?

 The background on the A7 is just the little hiss you hear if you put your head close to the tweeter, and as you have said, that doesn't change volume. It's a constant volume that no one would hear even 10cm away and definitely NOT when music is playing. The hiss is something like 50db 5cm away, and most pl play music at 80db and louder from like say 1m away or more. I mean come on, logarithmically speaking, the music that you're playing is many magnitudes louder than the tiny background hiss. In a crowd of 40 thousand people say, one more person shouting just isn't going to make any audible difference.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*First impressions Valhalla for Adam A7:* Midrange is alive and it sounds very clean, fast, open and transparent. Highs are crazy fast and clear with the smooth whiteness signature of Valhalla. Bass is tighter and more controlled! There is more detail everywhere, I hear sounds I didn't hear before!_

 

You're using £3000 cables for a pair of £650 speakers?

Nordost VALHALLA interconnect Cable
Adam A7, - Online Music Store | Sounds Live

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Adam A7 sound dark with edgy highs like HD590, Adam A5 sound open and clean like K1000. ..... But A7 are far worse than both, it's for movie watching only._

 

This is just not true, at all.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I switched to A7 and the mids were gone, I could hear bass and highs but the vocals were less apparent which made it sound very dark. It sounds very full compared to A5, I'm not used to this sound. I want music to sound open, clean and transparent which comes from rolled off frequency extremes. K1000 had only midrange driver, it gave me the best sound for my 192 kbps mp3's, together with Valhalla headphone cable it sounded like real life. But the A7 doesn't sound like real life, it sounds too dark, A5 is much closer to real life than A7, I need to burn it in a few thousand hours to find out if the midrange resolution is better._

 

Again, that is just not true. And it's interesting to note you have £3k cables but listen to mp3s at 192kbps. And burn-in for THOUSANDS of hours?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Without any tweaks the A7 sounds better than A5 because the harshness in the mids and highs become more apparent if the bass is gone from A5, people like the warmer sound from A7 more. A5 sounded like cheap desktop speakers because they were so cold and edgy..._

 

Again, those impressions are just way off. 

 Here are my impressions in this post in this thread, which I believe everyone else who has heard the two speakers side by side would agree with me. 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/4742265-post12.html (post)
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f21/ca...3/#post4742265 (thread)

 This is my setup with A7s in them and it sounds like a dream come true, and the total sum of the audio related equipment in the picture costs less than your £3k cables. And I'm willing to bet that the sound I'm getting from my setup is vastly superior to what you're getting.

http://i45.tinypic.com/35i89as.jpg

 I'd recommend the A7 over the A5.

 The A7s start rolling off at 50hz and true to the manufacturer's spec, it's down about 3db at 46hz. I've measured it myself to verify this. But get a subwoofer, cross it over at 80Hz (ie <80Hz goes to sub, >80Hz to speakers) and that will take more load off the A7's woofers and lower distortion etc as a result. That's going to improve your A7's as well as getting lower bass extension. I really can't see the problem with lower bass extensions = sound muddy, I mean bass frequencies are meant to sound low and dark. Church organs go all the way down to 16hz and that's featured in music, and the lowest note on a grand piano is like 32Hz or something.

 My subwoofer goes to 16hz flat in my room, and man, you dont' know what you're missing. At 50hz you can start feeling bass in your chest and body, at 16hz the entire floor moves beneath my feet etc. And surely if you want more realism in your audio, you should first aim to be able to reproduce all the frequencies that the original artist included in their music?


----------



## Rdr. Seraphim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, with some speakers that helps.

 However, you should sell both the A5 and A7 and get some electrostatic headphones for now. Then take your time looking for a speaker that gives you everything you want, and don't just compromise on the sound like you have been doing (one has good mids and no bass, the other good bass with no mids, maybe the next one will have it all)._

 

Larry, we're not supposed to feed the animals... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 no matter how cute they may look...


----------



## Shahrose

I don't want to quote The-One above because of the length of his post, but I fully agree with what he's said above. The OP needs to set his equipment priorities properly.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Rdr. Seraphim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Larry, we're not supposed to feed the animals... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 no matter how cute they may look..._

 

I know. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The-One doesn't know about Patrick yet, and that 90% of what he writes is done as a lark. The trick is figuring out what is real and what isn't. I've been watching this thread forever, and only now decided to chime in with what I thought would get things fun again. If "Stats vs K1000" doesn't do the trick, then we'll have to go down the subwoofer route, which is less fun...


----------



## The-One

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The-One doesn't know about Patrick yet, and that 90% of what he writes is done as a lark. The trick is figuring out what is real and what isn't. I've been watching this thread forever, and only now decided to chime in with what I thought would get things fun again. If "Stats vs K1000" doesn't do the trick, then we'll have to go down the subwoofer route, which is less fun..._

 

LOL anything else I should know about? And it's true and I don't know a lot about Patrick, my activity here is sporadic.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The-One* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL anything else I should know about? And it's true and I don't know a lot about Patrick, my activity here is sporadic._

 

Don't worry, just enjoy the ride!


----------



## Cya|\|

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The-One* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My subwoofer goes to 16hz flat in my room, and man, you dont' know what you're missing. At 50hz you can start feeling bass in your chest and body, at 16hz the entire floor moves beneath my feet etc. And surely if you want more realism in your audio, you should first aim to be able to reproduce all the frequencies that the original artist included in their music?_

 

Dude, what subwoofer do you have? The rythmik 12'' servo controlled sub goes down to 16hz by the way.
 Mine doesn't, and it's a 10'' peerless xls 10.
 I really wonder if i should upgrade to a rythmik in the future, but it would cost much more (especially the shipping cost from America to Europe), as it's very heavy. And it would occupy much more space.
 Btw mine is very fast: in a sealed enclosure it has a total Q of about 0.42, so it's critically dampened, and wonder if the servo 12'' (in a Q of 0.6, wich is theorically slower) would still sound fast, due to the servo control.


----------



## The-One

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cya|\|* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dude, what subwoofer do you have? The rythmik 12'' servo controlled sub goes down to 16hz by the way._

 

A SVS PC12+ with the latest 12.4 driver, it's in my sig, pic is there too.


----------



## Cya|\|

What does the .X stand for?
 Btw, does that equalizer you have in the signature work well? I have a bad resonance at 50hz, and could find no eq that had a 50hz control.


----------



## scootermafia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The-One* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You're using £3000 cables for a pair of £650 speakers?_

 

Perhaps you haven't met Patrick. He has a $30,000 power cable and $7000 worth of ground conditioner gadgets, among many other things, to cleanse the power for his $40 T-amp and $200 EMU 0404 sound card. His power is cleaner than Adrian Monk's hands, he just has no gear for all of these tweaks.

 Perhaps you haven't seen all of his old posts, but he has _destroyed_ far more Valhalla cables of various sorts in his tweaking misadventures than he actively has in use right now.

 1500th post!


----------



## The-One

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cya|\|* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What does the .X stand for?
 Btw, does that equalizer you have in the signature work well? I have a bad resonance at 50hz, and could find no eq that had a 50hz control._

 

There are different versions of the PC12 line from SVS, the .X shows which version of the woofer it is.

 Yes, Electri-Q works really well. It does pretty much everything you want, I use it solely as a parametric equaliser for bass management. It has like pretty much unlimited bands, others limit you to like 4 bands or something. It has lots of other modes and functions, most of which I don't know what they do.

 Here is a screenshot of my bass eq settings I use to give me a flat response from 20-250hz to around +/- 1db.

http://i45.tinypic.com/qq5q3n.jpg


----------



## Cya|\|

That's phantastic!
 Btw, do you use a microphone, or do you do it by ears?
 I don't have a microphone, do you think i could change the setting manually, till i hear almost flat?
 Pheraps that software is a solution to single subwoofer! Ofc not considering the lower distortion (and higher spl) that 2 subs have.


----------



## The-One

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scootermafia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Perhaps you haven't met Patrick. He has a $30,000 power cable and $7000 worth of ground conditioner gadgets, among many other things, to cleanse the power for his $40 T-amp and $200 EMU 0404 sound card. His power is cleaner than Adrian Monk's hands, he just has no gear for all of these tweaks.

 Perhaps you haven't seen all of his old posts, but he has destroyed far more Valhalla cables of various sorts in his tweaking misadventures than he actively has in use right now.

 1500th post!_

 






 Is he rich at all? On the one hand, you say he has a $30000 power cable. On the other hand, his pictures posted in this thread doens't suggest he lives in a penthouse suite, in fact he claims to have no bed.


----------



## The-One

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cya|\|* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's phantastic!
 Btw, do you use a microphone, or do you do it by ears?
 I don't have a microphone, do you think i could change the setting manually, till i hear almost flat?
 Pheraps that software is a solution to single subwoofer! Ofc not considering the lower distortion (and higher spl) that 2 subs have._

 

I use the XTZ RoomAnalyser. Proprietary microphone and software.

XTZ | Software &bull; Room Analyzer


----------



## Cya|\|

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The-One* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use the XTZ RoomAnalyser. Proprietary microphone and software.

XTZ | Software &bull; Room Analyzer_

 

Was it easy to import it to america? As the company is swedish. Btw, my speakers are very similiar to the xtz. Same tweeter, and woofer kind (i use a non coated version of the 5''). But the crossover is much better ^^.


----------



## scootermafia

Head-fi made him homeless. I think it's safe to say that when you have a $30,000 power cable for a budget system, in the words of Comic Book Guy:
 "His mind is no longer in mint condition."


----------



## The-One

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cya|\|* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Was it easy to import it to america? As the company is swedish. Btw, my speakers are very similiar to the xtz. Same tweeter, and woofer kind (i use a non coated version of the 5''). But the crossover is much better ^^._

 

I wouldn't know. I'm in the UK, XTZ Audio for a while had a special forum powerbuy directly with AVForums.com. Now they sell through an official retailer here.

 I would email XTZ yourself and ask.


----------



## The-One

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scootermafia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Head-fi made him homeless. I think it's safe to say that when you have a $30,000 power cable for a budget system, in the words of Comic Book Guy:
 "His mind is no longer in mint condition."_

 

... this backdrop of information is just astounding.

 I hope he likes his power cable (what is it), does he?


----------



## Cya|\|

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The-One* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wouldn't know. I'm in the UK, XTZ Audio for a while had a special forum powerbuy directly with AVForums.com. Now they sell through an official retailer here.

 I would email XTZ yourself and ask._

 

Oh, so you live in uk ^^. So is there a svs dealers i uk? I thought you lived in US because the shipping cost to Europe for that sub would cost VERY VERY much, so i guess there really should be a dealer in europe.


----------



## The-One

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cya|\|* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh, so you live in uk ^^. So is there a svs dealers i uk? I thought you lived in US because the shipping cost to Europe for that sub would cost VERY VERY much, so i guess there really should be a dealer in europe._

 

yes, the uk svs dealer is @ Subsonic Sounds


----------



## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The-One* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That and amongst other things, I totally don't get whole thing from wrapping your entire setup in paper to changing your laptop's resolution lower to save on wattage to improve the sound, wot?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I'm not saying your Adam A7 are bad, with A7 I'm still able to hear the difference between WAV and FLAC (less cpu power draw).
 With A5 I can hear the difference in power draw between XP and Linux, but it is more subtle.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The-One* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The background on the A7 is just the little hiss you hear if you put your head close to the tweeter..._

 

I'm not talking about the background noise when the music is paused. I'm talking about the flavor of the music which gives the illusion of a blacker background.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The-One* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You're using £3000 cables for a pair of £650 speakers?_

 

My tweaked Valhalla power cord is somewhere between Valhalla and Odin interconnect. Valhalla power cord has the same Dual filaments as Odin but the conductor size and silver plating depth differs.

 I compared 44 cm Valhalla interconnect (22awg single filaments) vs 1m Valhalla power cable wiring (16awg Dual filaments). It was a tie which means that the 16awg wiring is better if the length is the same. Later I sliced and cut the Valhalla power cord and put cotton thread around each conductor and toilet paper rolls with ERS Paper around them. It took 16 hours to build two 1m conductors. Later I found that foam tubes are much easier to use. 

 However, my girlfriend suddenly said she does not want to marry me anymore, this was a few days after I had wrapped my Valhalla with ERS Paper. All other tweaks worked fine with a girlfriend, but ERS Paper didn't, I don't know why. Now when I think about it, I e-mailed with a girl on a dating site a few years ago, then I started talking about my ERS Paper cable and she never responded to my e-mail again.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The-One* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Again, that is just not true. And it's interesting to note you have £3k cables but listen to mp3s at 192kbps. And burn-in for THOUSANDS of hours?_

 

If I want to listen to Valhalla flavor, I can hear it from 128kbps mp3. Valhalla gives the illusion of more realism, you can put the flavor on top of everything!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The-One* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And surely if you want more realism in your audio, you should first aim to be able to reproduce all the frequencies that the original artist included in their music?_

 

I listen to trance music because orchestral recordings sound muddy. Trance music has better layering since the sounds are mixed together.


----------



## Patrick82

I remember now the reason why I switched from headphones to speakers. 1) I will not look geeky to girlfriend. 2) I can use my 16awg Valhalla wiring without it being uncomfortable. 3) I can levitate the speakers instead of levitating my chair. 4) I can mass dampen the speakers instead of mass dampening myself.


----------



## Patrick82

I don't like when the A7 are on my table again, it sounds too muddy and dark. It feels like the resoluton of my ears need to be reduced until it sounds good again. The A7 sounded good before I put A5 into my system. A5 increased the resolution of my ears, it sounded very fresh like I was on an island. With A7 it feels like I'm in a dark basement and it's hard to breathe.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't like when the A7 are on my table again, it sounds too muddy and dark. It feels like the resoluton of my ears need to be reduced until it sounds good again. The A7 sounded good before I put A5 into my system. A5 increased the resolution of my ears, it sounded very fresh like I was on an island. With A7 it feels like I'm in a dark basement and it's hard to breathe._

 

Climb OUT from hiding deep inside the Hello Kitty sleeping bag, and not only will it be easier to breathe but the A7 will sound better.


----------



## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The-One doesn't know about Patrick yet, and that 90% of what he writes is done as a lark. The trick is figuring out what is real and what isn't._

 

Everything is real and will always be. I never say anything I cannot prove.


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Everything is real and will always be. I never say anything I cannot prove._

 

Let me rephrase that, "90% of what he writes makes us laugh."


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## Cya|\|

Btw patrick, did you use the back control of the adam a7 (and a5 too)? Room affects the sound very very very very very much. Maybe, since you come from heapdhones, you don't know about this problem. You should try adjusting things to your room.


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cya|\|* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Btw patrick, did you use the back control of the adam a7 (and a5 too)? Room affects the sound very very very very very much. Maybe, since you come from heapdhones, you don't know about this problem. You should try adjusting things to your room._

 

Skeptics and engineers use knobs and controls to alter the sound, I'm afraid to turn into a skeptic if I touch the knob. I rather use my dragon oils to alter the sound.


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## Patrick82

Here is my modified 16 awg Dual filament Valhalla, I put Furutech TRS plugs on the EMU end and Neutrik Silver XLR on the speaker end, it was very tight to install 3x16awg Valhalla conductors into those plugs.












 Here is when I tried books on top of Adam A5. I used A7 for movies on the left of picture, but there was no place to put food.


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## Patrick82

Two rabbits entered my apartment and started chewing on my cables so I was forced to move my Judge power cable on top of my table. At the same time I put the cable levitating on top of Magix and the power strip on Feet of Silence. I did a few minor changes as well. Then I let it warm up for a day and the improvement was so crazy HUGE! The transparency scares me, I feel adrenaline from the sounds! The soundstage is open and deep. Everything got both silkier and clearer! I hear more bass information from a quieter background!

 I believe that most of this improvement came from isolating the Judge power cable from vibrations. I recall my first impressions of the Judge; vibration isolation for the Judge gave about double the performance. It makes sense why Virtual Dynamics offered me to build a custom stand for the Judge, I refused and they sent me an incomplete cable which I fixed with Magix.


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## Patrick82

I wrapped my EMU with ERS Paper, it become smoother but also muddier. The muddiness was unbearable so I removed it. Later I found out that 15 cm of my Valhalla interconnect was touching the ERS Paper. If the ERS Paper is too close to the cable it sounds muddy. I have done this many times by accident with the same results. The ERS Paper *MUST* be separated at least 1cm from the cables! When you do it properly you should get longer decay. If you have the ERS Paper too close the decay is not audible and the soundstage sounds compressed and too warm, it makes it much worse. Another person has confirmed this with my cable.

 I put the ERS Paper back around my EMU while elevating the Valhalla interconnect using a nude foam tube. I got crazy long decay, it continues forever! The low-level details are clear!


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## The-One

Have you downgraded your computer display to fund more audio purchases? Think you had a much bigger one before?


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The-One* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you downgraded your computer display to fund more audio purchases? Think you had a much bigger one before?_

 

Yes, from 30 inch 2560x1600 to 19 inch 1280x1024.


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## Cya|\|

I didn't know you had very expensive cables. If you can afford such cables, why don't you upgrade to the adam s1x? It should be quite a big improvement.


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## Patrick82

I wrapped my system with <70 sheets of ERS Paper except for the speakers (I don't have enough ERS Paper). The improvement is so crazy! There are transients all over the music and they are very clear, the vocals have tiny transients in them which weren't audible until I fully wrapped my system with ERS Paper! I love ERS Paper! I didn't know Adam A7 was good enough for the ERS Paper treatment but it was! It doesn't sound too muddy at all, it sounds very good.


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## Patrick82

I switched the Feet of Silence into Magix and got more resolution. Then I put books on top and got a bigger improvement than switching from Feet into Magix. Now when my system is fully wrapped with ERS Paper, I don't think my girlfriend will care about the books.

 The Adam A7 are approaching the limit in midrange resolution, the soundstage should sound deeper than this, but there was still a big improvement from every tweak. It feels like I'm sitting inside the music track, I hear every little detail, ERS Paper does this. Layering is very good as well. However, the vocals are lacking in clarity due to too big drivers of the A7.


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## Patrick82

I normally use 4th volume step on the Adam A7 and 10 o'clock on EMU0404 USB. Now I tried 5th step on Adam A7 which is about 7-8 dB louder. It sounded so CRAZY! On this volume they are better than Adam A5 when I compared them in bed two months ago. I was surprised how relaxed my ears where when listening at more than double the volume. It's because of the ERS Paper. It's so great I made a new thread: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f21/my...videos-460403/


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## Rdr. Seraphim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't worry, just enjoy the ride!_

 

What a hoot! Actually, ya don't get much better than Patrick. Ya used to have to read an April 1 edition of Stereophile (well, Ok, any date is good to go 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) or the Absolute Sound.


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Omega17TheTrue* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you heard of cMP² ? I am sure you will love it, if i can revive my broken laptop i put this on it._

 

I tried cPlay and thought it would be better but this was not the case. cPlay with WinXP sounded edgier than Amarok with Ubuntu. There is more low-level detail and resolution with Ubuntu because of lower power consumption. After I did the ERS Paper tweak everything became more revealing and the subtle differences are now huge. To get the best audio you need to keep it as simple as possible to get the lowest wattage.


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## Patrick82

I'm worried about the power consumption now. I looked at Adam's website and it says: 

*Woofer*
 Amp. power RMS / music 
*A5*: 25 W / 40 W
*A7*: 50 W / 80 W
*S1X*: 200 W / 280 W

*Tweeter*
 Amp. power RMS / music 
*A5*: 25 W / 40 W
*A7*: 50 W / 80 W
*S1X*: 50 W / 100 W


 OMG! These values are horrible. S1X will sound very edgy like my old Krell KAV-500i which used 230W idle for my K1000, I hear a similar edgy sound signature of my A7. My ICEpower amp used ~10W and sounded silky smooth due to lower power consumption. I hear the same difference in silkiness between Adam A5 and Adam A7. I think A5 are my dream speakers because they use less wattage.


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## Omega17TheTrue

Sound like you need a low power amp with high efficiency speakers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What about using batteries and getting ride of all your power cables ? Just an idea.


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Omega17TheTrue* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sound like you need a low power amp with high efficiency speakers._

 

Yes. My K1000 system ended up with T-Amp because it was better than everything I tried. It was too bright the first time I tried it but that wasn't a bad thing at all. After I had all the tweaks in place it was my dream amp.

 How about using my T-Amp and buy high efficiency speakers? Which speakers should I be looking at?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Omega17TheTrue* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What about using batteries and getting ride of all your power cables ? Just an idea._

 

I found that I get better sound from Judge power cable than from battery. In one way the Judge increases the resolution and in another way it adds a clarity coloration similar to Nordost Valhalla interconnect.
 Genesis power cable didn't add that clarity coloration and I had to use a Multiwave generator (Premier Power Plant) in order to get it.


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## Cya|\|

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm worried about the power consumption now. I looked at Adam's website and it says: 

*Woofer*
 Amp. power RMS / music 
*A5*: 25 W / 40 W
*A7*: 50 W / 80 W
*S1X*: 200 W / 280 W

*Tweeter*
 Amp. power RMS / music 
*A5*: 25 W / 40 W
*A7*: 50 W / 80 W
*S1X*: 50 W / 100 W


 OMG! These values are horrible. S1X will sound very edgy like my old Krell KAV-500i which used 230W idle for my K1000, I hear a similar edgy sound signature of my A7. My ICEpower amp used ~10W and sounded silky smooth due to lower power consumption. I hear the same difference in silkiness between Adam A5 and Adam A7. I think A5 are my dream speakers because they use less wattage._

 

Dude power consumption is much less 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. In idle they consume near to nothing. In usage, you'll never run them at full volume, if you don't want clipping.
 With the s1x, you'll just have the same power consumption of the a5, at the same level.
 Also, keep in mind that the more watt you have, the more you get far from it's maximum value, the less you are likely to have clipping. While 200w of the s1x are too much, it's still better than having 25w.
 Edgy sound doesn't have anything to do with quantity of watts. Actually, more watts may mean less edgy, since the amp is less likely to distort.
 But the sound type of an amplifier depends on many factors, like the kind of capacitators, the kind of circuits design, and so on.


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cya|\|* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dude power consumption is much less 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. In idle they consume near to nothing. In usage, you'll never run them at full volume, if you don't want clipping.
 With the s1x, you'll just have the same power consumption of the a5, at the same level.
 Also, keep in mind that the more watt you have, the more you get far from it's maximum value, the less you are likely to have clipping. While 200w of the s1x are too much, it's still better than having 25w.
 Edgy sound doesn't have anything to do with quantity of watts. Actually, more watts may mean less edgy, since the amp is less likely to distort.
 But the sound type of an amplifier depends on many factors, like the kind of capacitators, the kind of circuits design, and so on._

 

The RMS value which is written first, is that the average wattage on max volume? And the 2nd value is the peak wattage on max volume?

 I have never heard clipping, I listen to music very quiet. I would like to know the idle wattage of the Adams with the music paused but I'm too poor to buy a measurement device, what will I do? I use my ears as the measurement device and they say that A7 have higher idle wattage than A5.


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## Cya|\|

Lol.
 Yes the first one is rms, the second one is peak wattage.
 There is a software that let's you calculate the watt required to have enough watt in your room, and max spl required.
 The one for my small room, was about 50w per channel, at 8ohm. So 25w is really not enough.


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## Omega17TheTrue

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes. My K1000 system ended up with T-Amp because it was better than everything I tried. It was too bright the first time I tried it but that wasn't a bad thing at all. After I had all the tweaks in place it was my dream amp.

 How about using my T-Amp and buy high efficiency speakers? Which speakers should I be looking at?_

 


 That is a good question, i searched during long time speakers for a t-amp too but in the end i just take powered speakers so i don't need to worry about amp and speakers synergy.

 You already have very good speakers if you want a upgrade it will be tough to do so.

 Maybe Omega speakers they seem to be very good they also have a 30 day in-home trial so if you don't like them you can still send them back.

 A super 5 monitor with a deephemp is on my list for my PC.


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## Patrick82

I have warmed up my system for a week and now I'm getting too much treble energy which masks the midrange muddiness of the A7. The surface layer of the music is bright and emphasized which masks the low-level details. The low-level details are better than ever before but the brightness is dominating so it doesn't sound anything special. Toning down the surface layer by using "veil tweaks" will make the deeper layers easier to hear and make the soundstage appear bigger. But overall it will make the audio quality worse, I don't want to do this. Instead I will use tweaks which don't hurt the sound. I have my 2nd RTP-4 Ultimate power strip arriving in the mail soon, I will daisy chain them together and I hope it will solve this issue.


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## Acoustik

Quote:


 If all the tweaking is placebo and when the audio system is completed the placebo must continue somewhere else (girlfriend hobby). When I come to think of it, when my headphone hobby was completed my girlfriend magically appeared. 
 






 Psychosis or schizophrenia.


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## The-One

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have warmed up my system for a week and now I'm getting too much treble energy which masks the midrange muddiness of the A7. The surface layer of the music is bright and emphasized which masks the low-level details. The low-level details are better than ever before but the brightness is dominating so it doesn't sound anything special. Toning down the surface layer by using "veil tweaks" will make the deeper layers easier to hear and make the soundstage appear bigger. But overall it will make the audio quality worse, I don't want to do this. Instead I will use tweaks which don't hurt the sound. I have my 2nd RTP-4 Ultimate power strip arriving in the mail soon, I will daisy chain them together and I hope it will solve this issue._

 

Patrick, why don't you try setting the tweeter level on the back of the A7s to -1db (what I did)? You can cut the tweeter by up to 4db.


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have warmed up my system for a week and now I'm getting too much treble energy which masks the midrange muddiness of the A7. The surface layer of the music is bright and emphasized which masks the low-level details. The low-level details are better than ever before but the brightness is dominating so it doesn't sound anything special._

 

I turned my system off and on and it got very dark and muddy with clarity removed, it was unbearable to listen to music with A7. The sound completely changed!

 I put back my A5 and got instant synergy right from the start! A5 are closer to perfection than A7. It sounds very tight with more midrange resolution and clarity! The clarity is huge but it's not harsh like A7, it's very smooth, this is because of lower wattage. It's still hard to hear if A5 give true resolution or fake resolution, but I get closer to confirming it the more I tweak my system to make it more revealing. I still think A5 are better.


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The-One* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Patrick, why don't you try setting the tweeter level on the back of the A7s to -1db (what I did)? You can cut the tweeter by up to 4db._

 

Did the manufacturer boost up the tweeter volume on purpose for usage with stock cables?


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## Patrick82

Right now the A5 completely destroy A7, there is more vocal information no question about it! The midrange of A7 could be emphasized with tone controls at the back, but I doubt it will give more vocal information.

 A5 have the midrange of K1000, it sounds amazing! A7 have the mids of HD590. I said this before in this thread. I will only use A7 for movie watching. A5 are the end of all speakers just like K1000 are the end of all headphones. Nothing better is needed!


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## The-One

Why would the A7s suit movie watching rather than the A5s patrick?


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The-One* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why would the A7s suit movie watching rather than the A5s patrick?_

 

Because A7 sound better than A5 at louder volumes when you sit further away from the TV. But if the speakers are less than 1meter from the ears you can use lower volume and get better sound from A5 than from A7.
 A7 sound darker and have a few Hz deeper bass which suits better for movies, the lack of midrange resolution doesn't matter much.


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The-One* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Patrick, why don't you try setting the tweeter level on the back of the A7s to -1db (what I did)? You can cut the tweeter by up to 4db._

 

After A5 have warmed up they sound blacker and whiter like A7. There is too much treble energy now, I think I should change the tweeter level but I'm scared. I wonder if they sound rolled off like K1000 then? I remember with my K1000 system the only thing I complained about was the rolled off highs. A5 solved this problem.

 I think I have knob phobia (I don't want to turn into skeptic engineer turning knobs all day), I like to use tweaks to alter the sound instead.


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## The-One

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After A5 have warmed up they sound blacker and whiter like A7. There is too much treble energy now, I think I should change the tweeter level but I'm scared. I wonder if they sound rolled off like K1000 then? I remember with my K1000 system the only thing I complained about was the rolled off highs. A5 solved this problem.

 I think I have knob phobia (I don't want to turn into skeptic engineer turning knobs all day), I like to use tweaks to alter the sound instead._

 

Remember... a turn of a knob might save you $30000 yet...


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have warmed up my system for a week and now I'm getting too much treble energy which masks the midrange muddiness of the A7. The surface layer of the music is bright and emphasized which masks the low-level details. The low-level details are better than ever before but the brightness is dominating so it doesn't sound anything special. Toning down the surface layer by using "veil tweaks" will make the deeper layers easier to hear and make the soundstage appear bigger. But overall it will make the audio quality worse, I don't want to do this. Instead I will use tweaks which don't hurt the sound. I have my 2nd RTP-4 Ultimate power strip arriving in the mail soon, I will daisy chain them together and I hope it will solve this issue._

 

I added another RTP4 power strip + Synapses2 power cable and it solved the problem above. The improvement in low-level detail is UNBELIEVABLE and the surface layer isn't toned down at all. RTP4 made it warmer and ERS Paper made it colder, both of them improved the low-level detail in the process, together they are a great match!


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## athenaesword

hmm i've listened to both the a5 and a7 in a studio before, albeit some time ago. imo the a7 was just much better in the bass department. but then you and i might have some differences in monitor placement. 

 i currently have my A7s 1.5m apart, on stands, in equilateral listening formation, and the sound is just pristine. still brighter than the harbeths i was listening to at my friend's place, but acceptable, much better than when i had them on the table. that might be your problem.. i believe i used to have the volume higher when i had them on the table to compensate for the muddiness, and hence they sounded harsh. (mind you, i wasn't just resting them on the table - i had them on 1" foam on mdf platforms. also, these're studio monitors, so they're designed to show crap for what it is, and that's exactly what i'm hearing with majority of my pop tracks now... just stuff that was mixed bright so they would sound good on subpar radios. proper dynamic tracks, especially 24bit content though.. is just heavenly. i had friends over yesterday and those who sat in the listening seat literally just sat there slackjawed.

 i'm currently using them with a dac1 pre. imo everything else (i.e interconnects/power cables) don't affect the sound you get as much as proper stands and positioning. i've just spent the last week listenign to stuff and testing out equipment on loan (black sands violet power cables, lessloss cables, balanced/unbalanced cables, dac1pre, oritek omz). i've had these monitors for a year, and this's the first time i'm getting really, REALLY blown away. all the cables and dac changing doesn't count for nuts compared to stands and placement. 

 here's a pic:


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## Cya|\|

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is no question about it that A5 have more midrange resolution than A7. My girlfriend has listened a lot to opera singers since I switched from A7 to A5, when I'm in the kitchen or sit in the toilet I can hear the crazy transparency, it sounds like there is someone singing in my apartment!_

 

Yeah, i have a bathroom in my room (ofc it's a different room). And when i'm in the toilette it seems like there's real music in my bedroom.


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## Patrick82




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## Patrick82

I have sold my A7 and moved my setup into a smaller area closer to the wall. My RTP4 power strips used to be resting on Feet of Silence and table, I added the built in rubber feet to the one that was resting on the table and heard very colored sound, I like the flat sounding table better even when it's brighter, it has the same sound signature as Magix.

 When I moved my setup I put the power strips on Magix too! I get better sound than ever before! Adam A5 are more demanding than K1000 in tweaks. K1000 is veiled in comparison. I have found my dream sound and don't need anything better. Maybe a bass trap in the corner.


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## BaboonGuy

Great thread Patrick.

 I want to get some monitors that I can put directly on my desk, don't really have room for much else... it looks like these A5 are the best you can get for that purpose!

 I'm concerned about the bass though, I want good/accurate bass and may have to get the A7 then... which might suck on the desk 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 DAMN!!


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## Cya|\|

If u don't have much money u can go for the new behringer b3030a.


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## shlomok

which sub should I buy for the A7? thanks


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