# Amp/dac for disappointed HD800 owner



## trunk

Hi,
  I recently bought the HD800 with a Nuforce Icon HDP dac/amp and I'm mostly disappointed.
  The high notes sound too harsh to my ears and the bass is pretty much nonexistent, I find myself using my old and much cheaper Denon AH-D1001 instead..
  Did anyone have a similar experience with the HD800? Is this something that can be fixed by a better amp? Or is this just the overall signature of these cans?
   
  My budget for an amp/dac combo is probably around 1000-1500$. I listen mostly to classical/rock/electronic music.
  I'm currently thinking about the Burson 160D/160DS. Will it fit my needs? Is the 160DS as good musically as the 160D?
  Any other recommendations/advice?
   
  I should also mention that I won't be able to try out an amp before buying it..
   
  Thanks!


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## jc9394

HD800 is very picky on amp, I don't think the HDP is a good match with it.  I had a Burson 160D and really like the combo, especially of a slight tube sound of Burson.  However I highly recommend a tube amp for HD800, check out the Woo Audio WA2 or WA6SE for amp and probably a Cambridge Audio DacMagic.


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## NinjaSquirt

Quote: 





trunk said:


> Hi,
> I recently bought the HD800 with a Nuforce Icon HDP dac/amp and I'm mostly disappointed.
> The high notes sound too harsh to my ears and the bass is pretty much nonexistent, I find myself using my old and much cheaper Denon AH-D1001 instead..
> Did anyone have a similar experience with the HD800? Is this something that can be fixed by a better amp? Or is this just the overall signature of these cans?
> ...


 
  Well the HDP is known for it's brightness (heard them in a store, terrible). If you pair it with a slightly bright HD800, ya got yourself a screecher. Yes. It can be fixed with a better amp (usually with something like a Zana Deux). What you're saying is pretty much an impossible task (don't get me wrong its a great budget) but the usual solution for HD800 owners is something in the $2K range or 20 pound, if you want to go by weight. I'd say Woo Audio WA6 + a Burson 160D both have a full bodied presentation that will balance out the HD800.


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## Oberst Oswald

I think mine sound pretty good with a 3 channel Beta 22...


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## jc9394

Quote: 





oberst oswald said:


> I think mine sound pretty good with a 3 channel Beta 22...


 


  you are talking one of the best amp for HD800, but I still prefer tube over beta22.


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## Draygonn

WooAudio 2 is a great match for the HD800.


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## drews

I had a WA6 (non SE, Sophia Princess) and it didn't help.  For me, the HD800 was technically impressive but ultimately not fun to listen to.
   
  Drew


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## Philharmoniker

You might wanna burn it in a little bit longer and see what happens.


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## LCfiner

I got an HD800 and I found that the only amp that could really bring out the bass was a balanced RWA headphone stage. I’m using it from the Isabellina HPA but you could get a balanced corvina for 1500. I don’t know how much more power the SE stage has but it’s 5W RMS into 32 ohm for the balanced stage. a SE Corvina is 1000.
   
  Volume is really loud even at 9-10 on the dial and the bottom end is really nicely filled out. It’s not D5000 levels bass but it’s extremely solid now compared to other, weaker amps.


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## Philharmoniker

Quote: 





lcfiner said:


> I got an HD800 and I found that the only amp that could really bring out the bass was a balanced s RWA headphonetage. I’m using it from the Isabellina HPA but you could get a balanced corvina for 1500. I don’t know how much more power the SE stage has but it’s 5W RMS into 32 ohm for the balanced stage. a SE Corvina is 1000.
> 
> Volume is really loud even at 9-10 on the dial and the bottom end is really nicely filled out. It’s not D5000 levels bass but it’s extremely solid now compared to other, weaker amps.


 


  "Only" is really too strong of a word. Plenty of amps work great with 800. Violectric 181 at full balance, and Lehmann BCL, and these are both not that expensive.
  I haven't heard the RWA headphone stage, so do take my comment with a grain of salt since RWA might exceed the two things I mentioned by a lot with respect to synergy with hd800.


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## LCfiner

I meant “only” in the sense that it was the “only” amp that I_ personally tried _that could fill out the bottom end. Obviously I can’t comment on amps I have not tried. I find;t mean to imply it’s the only out there in the world - that wouldn’t make sense. 
   
  I brought it up only because the corvina is at the upper range of his budget but would have _zero_ problems powering the thing.


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## Saintly

If you're after more bass, less brightness, and a lusher sound, the T1 may be what you're looking for as opposed to the HD800.


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## atomiccow

The HD800 is not just choosy about the amp, its choosy about the music. It cannot do anything to improve badly recorded music with narrow soundstage. You need a much more forward phone like the LCD-2 to play this well. It is excellent for classical and jazz but not for rock and definately not electronica. 
   
  Try a phone like the LCD-2, a Beyer, or a Sennhieser HD600/650. These are in general much more forward in presentation and much better recommendation for playing a wide variety of music because they will not ruin tracks with inherently narrow soundstage. I did extensive listening on my friends HD800 setup driven by a Rudistor RPX-35 before I made my decision to purchase the LCD-2. The HD800 is a dead end for rock/pop.


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## Elysian

HD800 sounded amazing on a BA with EML tubes.  Even the few average recordings I threw at it sounded good, which is something it did better than my electrostat setup.  Bass was full without being boomy, and it was the largest soundstage I had ever heard on headphones.
   
  I wonder if the lesser EC amps provide similar performance with the HD800 (S7, ZD), in which case I may end up selling my GES and paying the balance for a S7 or ZD.


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## grokit

Quote:


draygonn said:


> WooAudio 2 is a great match for the HD800.


 

 Get a silver one and pair it with a Schiit Bifrost and you will have a great-looking and sounding system, within your budget (until you start rolling tubes) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  Quote: 





philharmoniker said:


> You might wanna burn it in a little bit longer and see what happens.


 

 Not going to happen with the HD800/HDP I'm afraid


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## Uncle Erik

You really should run the HD-800 from a quality tube amp.
   
  I've used mine with a Zana Deux and a Moth Si2A3; both excellent.  Keep an eye out for a used amp or consider building one.  That's the best way to save money on a quality amp.


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## Edoardo

What kind of music do you listen to?


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## niranhopper

Might i suggest the Matrix M-stage. It matches very well with the HD800. Also the HD800 needs some weeks of ear burnin for your ears to get adjusted to the sound. The bass on the HD800 is massive in size due to the huge soundstage but there is not much impact. When i got the HD800, i thought the Shure 940 and HD800 were quite similar. But it took me sometime to get used to the HD800 and now it simply is better in all aspects.


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## Audio-Omega

I use Apex Peak amplifier with HD800.  The combination is good for movie scores, it has excellent resolution and big soundstage.  Bass is there but it doesn't dominate so every instrument including vocal gets to your ears equally.  There is a thread about Apex Peak here.  You can try a variety of tubes to suit your taste.  
   
  I don't find HD800 suitable for rock and it's bright for female vocals in pop music.  
   
  The most important thing is the source, you would need a good one to begin with.  I find it very challenging to use headphones and amplifiers to "correct" a bad source.


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## khaos974

In my opinion, you simply dislike the base tonality of the HD 800, you probably would have appreciated an LCD-2 more (or possibly an LCD-3 considering the MRSP of the HD800 these days). No amp is going to change the base tonality of a pair of headphones, however the HD 800 is technically very good, you could try altering the sound dignature to your taste via a good parametric EQ or try to mod the HD800 to your tastes.
   
  Purrin had the same problems as you do, namely screeching trebles, here's how he solved them, and he even documented and measured the changes.
  
  Quote: 





purrin said:


> By request. It is based on the JaZZ and arnaud mods. I am calling it the Anaxilus mod because he just sort of slapped on what materials we had lying around:* Creatology adhesive foam sheets.* At that time, I was using a less effective version of this mod with felt, but decided to switch to the Anax version because it was more effective at taming the treble.
> 
> 
> The circular cut actually extends slightly past the metal ring into the mesh area. The dust guards are also removed to extend the treble out a little more.
> ...


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## trunk

Thanks for the replys everyone.
  I admit I'm very reluctant about getting a tube amp- seems like a lot of hassle and considering I've never listened to one, it seems risky.
  With that said, currently I'm focusing on these amps:
  * Violectric v200 (the top contender right now, but I can't find information about the quality of its optional DAC - anyone has any experience with it? Especialliy with the HD800 )
  * Burson 160D / DS.
  * WA2 - I will also need a DAC for this..
  * RWA Corvina - Also needs a DAC.. And Isabellina HDP seems too expensive..
   
  Decisions, decisions.. My wallet is already squirming.


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## thecourier

Personally i think the Woo and Burson are 2 great amps. I've been waiting for more impressions on the Ds (mike at headfonia wrote a review)


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## Jojomite

i think the hd800 pairs best with tube amps. it has a fuller sound compared to solid state most of the time. about the burson, i haven't heard it with the hd800, but my general thoughts of it is that it is pretty weak in sound staging, to me, it sounds very congested. however it does add a little warmth and has great bass and prat, which may be just what u need for the hd800


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## jackwess

Quote: 





jojomite said:


> i think the hd800 pairs best with tube amps. it has a fuller sound compared to solid state most of the time. about the burson, i haven't heard it with the hd800, but my general thoughts of it is that it is pretty weak in sound staging, to me, it sounds very congested. however it does add a little warmth and has great bass and prat, which may be just what u need for the hd800


 


  Im not sure about this. When i had the HA-160 for a few days i think the soundstage is one of the burson's strong points. Was the unit you tried burn'd in? mine was over the 50+ hours, and it opens up really nice after the 100 hours mark (sounds like a different beast). I a gamer and used the HD800's for some Fps action, i was impressed.


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## 129207

If you don't like the HD800's sound from your current amp, sell it or return it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   You shouldn't need a $1.5K amp to make a $1.5K headphone sound to your liking. This way you're going to keep spending, trying to like something that's just not your thing. I mean, the Nuforce isn't a bad amp and it's sound isn't that different from other solid state amps. The differences between amps are highly exaggerated in my opinion.


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## jc9394

I disagree, the HD800 sounds very different from Burson and beta22.  Even my wife can tell the difference, the beta has much more details than the Burson.


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## jackwess

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I disagree, the HD800 sounds very different from Burson and beta22.  Even my wife can tell the difference,


 

  
  Yes, the Beta is brighter and more fatiguing to listen to. 
   
  Imo the Burson is more fun sounding. Well thats according to my ears.


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## jc9394

Quote: 





jackwess said:


> Yes, the Beta is brighter and more fatiguing to listen to.


 


  Not at all, it is more detail and musical than the Burson.  It is only fatigue if your source does not pair well.  Burson is good but no where close to other highend SS amp.


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## jackwess

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Burson is good but no where close to other highend SS amp.


 


  Care to make a list of the other amps? 
   
  Probably i have demoed some of them..


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## jc9394

Quote: 





jackwess said:


> Care to make a list of the other amps?
> 
> Probably i have demoed some of them..


 


  RSA Apache, Audio-GD Phoenix, and Headamp GS1...


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## jackwess

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> RSA Apache, Audio-GD Phoenix, and Headamp GS1...


 


  I think a different "flavor" doesn't mean better, since we all like different pairings. After all, all was based on my ears..what i like. Just a man's opinion.


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## a1joe507

I am not sure how many of you were at Can Jam this year in Denver, but you really couldn't walk 15 feet without bumping into a paid of HD800 headphones!  That happened to be my first time getting to hear them, with plenty of different styles of music, e.g., classical, jazz, rock, etc., and plenty of different setups. I probably heard HD800s on at least 10 different set-ups, SS, tube, balanced, etc.

 What I took home most from the experience was the ubiquity of the surprise that people had in how much they often did not enjoy the cans in one kind of an amp but liked them very much in an other.  Often it seems that people will definitely hear a difference between amp/can pairings, but it doesn't necessarily outright change the listeners opinion of the headphones categorically, i.e. from "I don't like" to "I like."  I'm not saying that this is without exception, of course.
   
  Although I think you will often be encouraged to join the tube fan club, so to speak, on head-fi when posting requests for recommendations for amps, I can say that it seemed that it was very often the case that people who were not very happy with the HD800 headphones out of a SS amp were much more happy with them out of a tube amp, even if they weren't regular tube amp users.
   
  This held true even within single manufactures of amps.  For example, while getting a chance to listen to Ray Samuel Amps, several people (myself included) noted that his SS amps obviously sounded impressive with the HD800s, but the B-52 (a tube amp) often (but not always) won out as a favorite with the HD800s over something like the Apache.  Both are high powered balanced amps from the same builder/designer, but people regularly said that there was something missing from the HD800s in SS amps, while the tube amps gave some life and filled out the sound a bit, without changing the HD800 signature much. 
   
  Ray's wife (I forget her name now) was telling me that after sitting at the table with Ray for a few days at Can Jam, people kept making observations just like that one with the HD800s when comparing the SS and tube RSA set-ups, that the tubes just gave the cans that extra "something" that was lacking in the SS set-ups.
   
  I also got to hear the HD800s in Headroom SS amps, with and without the dedicated power supplies (which, if you haven't had a chance to "A/B", so to speak, with the DPS, can definitely make a surprising difference with many cans).  I also listened to the HD800s in portable players, and almost every model of the Woo Amps.  I have to say, myself and many people found that the tube amps were able to change the mind of many people not happy with the very "correct" tonal presentation of the HD800s out of SS setups.
   
  Now, that is not to say that there aren't/weren't people happy with SS set-ups and the HD800s.  But, it sounds like the HD800s signature might not be for you.  And, you are not alone. 
   
  Before giving up on the cans or pulling the trigger on another amp without having ever heard it, I would suggest finding your way to a meet or finding a local head-fier with a decent tube set-up to see if that changes your mind about the "highs" of the HD800s.  If that doesn't change your mind, you may want to check out another pair of cans.  I think that the HD800s do have those "highs" in every amp, as it is just how those cans sound.
   
  Hope this helps!  And have fun tweaking your set-up....that's one of the most fun parts of this hobby/compulsion!


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## jc9394

Quote: 





uncle erik said:


> *You really should run the HD-800 from a quality tube amp*.
> 
> I've used mine with a Zana Deux and a Moth Si2A3; both excellent.  Keep an eye out for a used amp or consider building one.  That's the best way to save money on a quality amp.


 


   
  Not sure my WA22 qualify as quality tube amp but I just finished my 3 hours lesson and very please to what I heard.  Actually, I still prefer WA22 over beta22 with HD800.


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## AlanHell

Quote: 





atomiccow said:


> The HD800 is not just choosy about the amp, its choosy about the music. It cannot do anything to improve badly recorded music with narrow soundstage. You need a much more forward phone like the LCD-2 to play this well. It is excellent for classical and jazz but not for rock and definately not electronica.
> 
> Try a phone like the LCD-2, a Beyer, or a Sennhieser HD600/650. These are in general much more forward in presentation and much better recommendation for playing a wide variety of music because they will not ruin tracks with inherently narrow soundstage. I did extensive listening on my friends HD800 setup driven by a Rudistor RPX-35 before I made my decision to purchase the LCD-2. The HD800 is a dead end for rock/pop.


 
   
  I have found out that with the right DAC, the brightness of the HD800 can be balance out. You just need to tune the source a little bit to make it sound "right" to you.
   
  Now I am just looking for the right DAC that can make it happen.


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## trunk

I've ended up ordering the Violectric V200. As I've said, I'm reluctant at this point to start getting into tubes.
  Will update once it gets here...


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## MayaTlab

You may correct what you don't like from the HD800 via different means, and I'm not sure going for tube amps is the only solution. I'd also look into difference sources, and that includes software as well. As an example, I've noticed quite an improvement in musicality when I started to use Amarra instead of iTunes to play back music, with my equipment. I don't know why, as there currently isn't any rational explanation for why bit-perfect softwares can sound at least different if not better than one another, but it seems to be the case.
  As far as DACs go, I have very little knowledge about them, but I've read quite a bit, and some top-of-the-line DACs are described as being both accurate and musical, exempt from any "digitis", whatever that means to people. I've read that, for example, both the Lavry Gold and TOTALDAC A1 seem to correspond to that description. Again, I have no idea why, some theorise it's due to their R2R conversion, but I can't confirm or deny this on my own.
  So my point is that going for tube isn't the only solution, there may be others around. 
  Some may also advise you to change cabling, including power cords, but that's a much (MUCH) more controversial point than changing amps or sources (and a sure way to derail a thread).


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## K_19

The WA6SE and the V200 are the only two amps that I've liked the HD800 out of thus far...


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## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





trunk said:


> Hi,
> I recently bought the HD800 with a Nuforce Icon HDP dac/amp and I'm mostly disappointed.
> The high notes sound too harsh to my ears and the bass is pretty much nonexistent, I find myself using my old and much cheaper Denon AH-D1001 instead..
> Did anyone have a similar experience with the HD800? Is this something that can be fixed by a better amp? Or is this just the overall signature of these cans?
> ...


 


  well, the hd is a very good pair of headphones, but it definitely needs good amping to sound its best. or else it'll sound anemic and harsh and lifeless.
   
   
  try a WA2. i've heard the burson isn't very good on the HD 800. the hd 800 loves tubes.


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## jc9394

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> well, the hd is a very good pair of headphones, but it definitely needs good amping to sound its best. or else it'll sound anemic and harsh and lifeless.
> 
> 
> try a WA2. i've heard the burson isn't very good on the HD 800. the hd 800 loves tubes.


 


  Actually, the HD800 pair very well with Burson.  The Burson is slightly on the warmer side and a little tube like amp.  The HD800 does loves tubes, I like it with WA22 more than with beta22.


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## AlanHell

I am looking for a solution form the source side and do not have a big budget.
  So might thinking about get a real DAC for my PC.
   
  I am using RPX-35 right now and currently looked into the following dacs:
   
  Benchmark DAC 1
  CA DacMagic Plus
  W4S DAC2
  Music Hall DAC 25.3
  PS Audio Dlink iii
   
  I was looking for a warmer sound since the HD800 is a bit bright.
   
  Anyone have good recons?


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## cAsE sEnSiTiVe

Quote: 





jackwess said:


> Yes, the Beta is brighter and more fatiguing to listen to.
> 
> Imo the Burson is more fun sounding. Well thats according to my ears.


 


  A properly designed/built Beta22 should not be bright or fatiguing in any way, shape, or form. It shows you what's there without chucking any part of it in your lap.


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## jc9394

Quote: 





case sensitive said:


> A properly designed/built Beta22 should not be bright or fatiguing in any way, shape, or form. It shows you what's there without chucking any part of it in your lap.


 

 X2, I did not notice any fatiguing at all even I listen to it over 4 hours today.


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## our martin

you want a cambridge audio dac magic plus and a cambridge audio 840a amplifier...richer sounds is the best place to buy them from and if you are buying them both together you will get a good price on them..and in budget plus you could get some mezzo speakers if you wanted to go to the very end of your budget?..


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## jhum

A bit late responding on this thread, but my $.02 as an HD800 / Burson owner: Re-cable these 'phones.
  Huge huge huge change in their sound.
  I was very much unhappy with the stock cables (very bright, even after burn-in).
  I gave them ~300 hours before I decided it had to be done.


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## Draygonn

or Anaxilus mod them for cheap.


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## K_19

If the brightness of the HD800 is the problem, the Stello HP100 amp IMO does the job of amping them at a reasonable price (can be found at $300-400 nowadays used). It's more than powerful enough, has perfectly black background, great soundstage for a SS amp, strong bass, and most important of all has a filter switch at the back that rolls off the extreme highs. I personally don't use it in my rig but the difference is definitely noticeable (actual hardware filter here) and will definitely make your experience less fatiguing.
   
  I do prefer my WA6SE over it for my HD800 but the HP100 IMO comes close. And the matching DA100 DAC already has quite a good reputation for its matching with the HD800 here on head-fi.


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## hedphonz

after having owned the  HD800's for over a year and after purchasing several SS and tube amps i have come to the conclusion that the HD800's suit certain type of recordings and when those recordings are played with any good SS or tube amp they sound absolutely beautiful.
   
  Some recordings just dont seem to sound good no matter what amp i use. Now whenever i listen to music i sort of split my music selection into 2 camps- HD800 compatible and HD650's for the rest.
   
  In some respects the HD800's sort of ruined my listening pleasure as i was happy with the HD650's and a medium spec graham slee solo amp but after buying the HD800's my music world was turned upside down as they are so technically superior and revealing that all of a sudden a lot of my old faves sounded like noisy trash metal.  But unfortunately i cant and wont go back to the HD650's exclusively as I now know what is possible. I feel like a drug addict now on a never ending search for the highest high.


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## fabio-fi

Quote: 





hedphonz said:


> after having owned the  HD800's for over a year and after purchasing several SS and tube amps i have come to the conclusion that the HD800's suit certain type of recordings and when those recordings are played with any good SS or tube amp they sound absolutely beautiful.
> 
> Some recordings just dont seem to sound good no matter what amp i use. Now whenever i listen to music i sort of split my music selection into 2 camps- HD800 compatible and HD650's for the rest.


 

  Care to mention the music genres/type of recordings that you find suitable for the 800's?


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## jc9394

Quote: 





hedphonz said:


> after having owned the  HD800's for over a year and after purchasing several SS and tube amps i have come to the conclusion that the HD800's suit certain type of recordings and when those recordings are played with any good SS or tube amp they sound absolutely beautiful.
> 
> Some recordings just dont seem to sound good no matter what amp i use. Now whenever i listen to music i sort of split my music selection into 2 camps- HD800 compatible and HD650's for the rest.
> 
> In some respects the HD800's sort of ruined my listening pleasure as i was happy with the HD650's and a medium spec graham slee solo amp but after buying the HD800's my music world was turned upside down as they are so technically superior and revealing that all of a sudden a lot of my old faves sounded like noisy trash metal.  But unfortunately i cant and wont go back to the HD650's exclusively as I now know what is possible. I feel like a drug addict now on a never ending search for the highest high.


 

 I don't agree on this, on my setup, both SS and tube sounds great with HD800.  The HD800 is not as forgiving as HD6xo series and a good source is needed in order for it to fully release it's potentials.


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## The Monkey

The best amp I have heard with the HD 800 is the Luxman P-1.  Pair that with an Electrocompaniet ECD-1 or a Neko Audio D-100 and it will be about as "warmed up" as its gonna get.  In all likelihood, you simply don't like the headphone.  It happens.


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## preproman

The HD800 + A double Helix Cable + The GS-1 = Goodness like you would never think of..  In fact this amp has a range that works well with most if not all phones.  Note " I have not heard this amp with the LCD-2 or any HIFIMan as of yet"


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## grokit

I would say it comes pretty darned close 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




[size=medium]Could This Be the Ultimate Headphone System?[/size]


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## sonq

grokit said:


> I would say it comes pretty darned close
> 
> 
> 
> ...




He did end the review with "The HD800's have a little more air and space; the T1's have a slightly lusher presentation, but the Edition 10's sound, "just right"."


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## sonq

​


preproman said:


> The HD800 + A double Helix Cable + The GS-1 = Goodness like you would never think of..  In fact this amp has a range that works well with most if not all phones.  Note " I have not heard this amp with the LCD-2 or and HIFIMan as of yet"




I've heard the HD800 with stock cable on GS1, must say it sounds quite refined and tonally just a touch lean; much better than I imagine from a moderately priced ss amp.


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## sonq

alanhell said:


> I am looking for a solution form the source side and do not have a big budget.
> So might thinking about get a real DAC for my PC.
> 
> I am using RPX-35 right now and currently looked into the following dacs:
> ...




I use HRT MS2+ and Anti-IC; both warm sounding.


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## grokit

Quote: 





sonq said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah he's a bit off...


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## AlanHell

I have done some research on the HRT MS2, and it seems to only support up tp 96khz. I do have many SACDs coming form my old sony 999ES player, so I am more leaning towards an 24/192 DAC.
   
  Do you have any recon on D100 Mk2 + Red wine Audio Corvina Balance pair?


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## AlanHell

Any one have any idea about HDVD800 system?
   
  Looks very very sexy~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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## reeltime

I bought the HD800's as an upgrade to HD650's and haven't regretted the purchase at all.
   
  I own a Burson 160D and a Woo WA6.  The Woo WA6 with stock tubes is underpowered and can't drive the HD800 well at all.  However the WA6 with tubes upgraded has made it a worthy component.  I upgraded the drivers tubes to 6SN7's and I'm using a GZ34 (1957 metal base) for the rectifier.  I'm hearing that a holy grail tube would be a Western Electric 422a 274B, but it's in the $650 - $1400 range.  Plenty of power and the detail and soundstage is very nice.  The Burson 160D I've found to be quite harsh by comparison-- particularly through the upper midrange of the signal.  I much prefer the Woo over the Burson, and the 160D is now relegated to being a D/A converter for the system, until I sell it for a dedicated D/A.  
   
  I am looking to greener pastures.  I think the WA6SE would be a decent upgrade, but I think I'm going to hold out and buy a WA5LE down the road.  By many accounts this is a very formidable match for the HD800.  Other amps I'm considering are the LiquidFire amp and the Dark Star from Ray Samuels (though admittedly, quite a bit out of my price range).  
   
  My thoughts anyway-- avoid the Burson.  I wouldn't do that purchase again.  Also-- the Burson is not very well shielded.  If you have a CFL bulb or device (like a flat screen monitor) anywhere near it, you will pick up a hum unless you unplug it.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

the WA6-SE is definitely much better than the WA6. has more than enough power to drive the HD-800 and really good dynamics. several times more powerful than the WA6
  i use the sophia princess 274b and 6ew7 tubes on it.


----------



## madbull

I'm in the same situation as the OP. Icon HDP just doesn't sound right with HD800. Maybe it's the recording style as someone said, I haven't tested enough.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





madbull said:


> I'm in the same situation as the OP. Icon HDP just doesn't sound right with HD800. Maybe it's the recording style as someone said, I haven't tested enough.


 
   
  Try a Little Dot
   
  http://www.littledot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=815&sid=567cdc8e602e089588d9107b94e6d9f5


----------



## Happy Camper

A Zana Deux would be sweet. An old Singlepower Supra would too.


----------



## madbull

Forgot to say I got a DNA Stratus on the way, now it shouldn't take too long to get it, it finally got clearance of my stupid country's customs 
  Guess that problem will be solved. 
  I just wanted to point out that the hdp is not a good match for the hd800, to my ears.


----------



## GL1TCH3D

but read through a lot of the posts here...
Being very new to high end amps/dacs I'm a bit lost.
I tried the HD800 at a show from the WA2 or 22 and with another amp I didn't recognize or ask the name of. The woo of course was a tube amp and the second one was a SS amp.
With both setups I really enjoyed the HD800. If I had to pick a winner, I think I enjoyed the woo amp more. Though, it's not a fair fight because I only got to try the HD800 with that SS amp in a very noisy area and not to mention it may cost a fraction of the price.

I will be getting a pair of HD800 soon from a trade and was wondering what a good budget dac+amp combo would be. Currently I'm just using my fiio e17 with my Q701 at home.
The reason I'm getting the HD800 now is because it's a deal I can't really pass on.
The WA22 is a bit out of my budget right now... I was hoping to get a combo for under $800 that would last me until I can upgrade to something nicer for the hd800.

I saw a bunch of names being thrown around such as the burson, WA6se, WA22, Ray Samuel amps, beta 22 but they all seem out of my current budget. 
Can anyone give me some guidance?


----------



## Draygonn

gl1tch3d said:


> I will be getting a pair of HD800 soon from a trade and was wondering what a good budget dac+amp combo would be. Currently I'm just using my fiio e17 with my Q701 at home.


One option is to use your E17 as DAC and output to an Objective2 until you have the cash for a balanced DAC and WA22.


----------



## LCfiner

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> One option is to use your E17 as DAC and output to an Objective2 until you have the cash for a balanced DAC and WA22.


 
   
  i think this is a good idea. Keep the E17 as a DAC for now and focus on just an amp that can meet your budget. Either an O2 as a temporary measure or something that you think you could keep for longer if you don’t plan on getting the WA22 later on. Maybe the Burson HA160. 
   
  Another thing you could do at the same time is replace the E17 DAC with the Objective ODAC, if you know you’ll be getting a decent desktop amp and don’t need the E17 amp portion. The ODAC measure very well and some people here who have some experience with good DACs say it holds up very well.


----------



## GL1TCH3D

lcfiner said:


> i think this is a good idea. Keep the E17 as a DAC for now and focus on just an amp that can meet your budget. Either an O2 as a temporary measure or something that you think you could keep for longer if you don’t plan on getting the WA22 later on. Maybe the Burson HA160.
> 
> Another thing you could do at the same time is replace the E17 DAC with the Objective ODAC, if you know you’ll be getting a decent desktop amp and don’t need the E17 amp portion. The ODAC measure very well and some people here who have some experience with good DACs say it holds up very well.




So do you think the ODAC+O2 combo would work as a budget start?
A new odac+o2 combo system is about $300 which could lead to an earlier end game amp later on.


----------



## Lorspeaker

i had good results from a hybrid tube amp..the hisoundaudio EF5...
  gave the hd800 more organic highs, and fuller lower ends.


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





gl1tch3d said:


> The WA22 is a bit out of my budget right now... I was hoping to get a combo for under $800 that would last me until I can upgrade to something nicer for the hd800.
> I saw a bunch of names being thrown around such as the burson, WA6se, WA22, Ray Samuel amps, beta 22 but they all seem out of my current budget.
> Can anyone give me some guidance?


 
   
  My thoughts are this:  Look at the WA6 for now.  It's a great entry level amp that will drive the HD 800 fine, and it will even sound impressive with upgraded tubes.  The reason I say WA6 is that when you're ready to move up, someone will take the WA6 off your hands for not much less than you paid for it.  Resale is a big consideration, if you're planning to upgrade.  There are other amps to consider, no doubt, but I doubt they will resale as highly as the Woo in that range (worth checking out Schiit, too, I suppose).  But I know the Woo and with good tubes you will have a workable solution that sounds good today, that won't have you sucking air when you go to sell.  Wait a few weeks and you might buy mine.  I'm thinking of getting into a WA6SE or better.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





gl1tch3d said:


> So do you think the ODAC+O2 combo would work as a budget start?
> A new odac+o2 combo system is about $300 which could lead to an earlier end game amp later on.


 
   
   
  Do your research - Price per performance = 
   
  http://www.littledot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=831&sid=a9109546ca0d60f31df831d751210d16


----------



## terokk

only one I've tried with it is the WA2 and to be it does the job.


----------



## LCfiner

Quote: 





gl1tch3d said:


> So do you think the ODAC+O2 combo would work as a budget start?
> A new odac+o2 combo system is about $300 which could lead to an earlier end game amp later on.


 
   
  Yeah, it should work. Heck, I drove the HD800 out of a Fiio E10 for a couple hours and it didn’t sound awful (sounded quite nice, but lacking in the bass). You may already be thinking this, but I suggest getting the O2 and ODAC as separate boxes so that it’s easy to upgrade the amp and keep the DAC in place till you consider upgrading that at a later date.


----------



## GL1TCH3D

Thanks for the info guys xD
I guess I'll look into the O2, wa6 and mk6
Though the price differences are significant... It also depends if I can get it up to canada for a reasonable price.


----------



## Anaxilus

O2 is cheap enough but doesn't do the HD800 justice and won't pair well.  Might as well get a SA5000, 940/1840 or T1 and pocket the difference.  Sure some people like the HD800 sound w/ cheaper gear, even a laptop HO but you aren't remotely hearing what they can do at that point so why bother.


----------



## GL1TCH3D

anaxilus said:


> O2 is cheap enough but doesn't do the HD800 justice and won't pair well.  Might as well get a SA5000, 940/1840 or T1 and pocket the difference.  Sure some people like the HD800 sound w/ cheaper gear, even a laptop HO but you aren't remotely hearing what they can do at that point so why bother.




It's just I have a chance to get the hd800 in a trade which probably won't be available to me later so I'm going to pick them up now then worry about a higher end amp/dac after. I was just looking for something decent to use in the mean time.

EDIT: Lucky me... I'm going to a meet with people bringing the beta22, mkVI+ and some other nice amps which I will hopefully get to try with the HD800 if I get them in time.


----------



## our martin

Sennheiser IE 800 £500 Earphones, HDVD 800 Headphone Amp Announced 

 By Andrew Williams
 13 April 2012
 

  
 









    Sennheiser has revealed its most expensive IEM earphones yet. The Sennheiser IE 800 will sell for 599Euro, which will likely equate to between £499 and £599. At this price, they'll compete directly with the top non-custom sets on the market, including the mighty Shure SE535. Sennheiser's first headphone amp has also been unveiled. It's called the HDVD 800.

 The Sennheiser IE 800 are - we believe (awaiting confirmation) - dual-driver earphones that match a dynamic driver with an armature driver, offering a claimed frequency response of 5-46,500Hz. The main driver measures 7mm, which Sennheiser says makes it the smallest in the world. Using such tiny drivers allows the IE 800 to remain very small-bodied compared with many top-end sets - the triple-driver Westone and Shure models are relatively chunky.






 (image credit: SlashGear)

 They do seek to create a distinct image, though, with an unusual cable design and dual vents on the back. We can't yet confirm whether they use a removable cable, but when the much cheaper IE 8i earphones do, there's little chance Sennheiser won't bring the feature in here.

 The Sennheiser HDVD 800 headphone amplifier has also been announced. It's not cheap at 1499Euro, but is sure to look and feel the part.

 It's constructed from aluminium, with a transparent glass window up top to give you a view into its internals. It'll take digital signals up to 24-bit, 192k - so has all the audiophile cred it needs.





 (image credit: SlashGear)

 Naturally, Sennheiser says it's designed primarily for use with its HD range of headphones - the HD 800, HD 700, HD 650 and HD 600. However, we can't imagine many people with anything less than an HD 800-grade headphone would be willing to spend £1000-plus on a headphone amplifier.

 The Sennhesier IE 800 earphones will cost 599Euro and will be available from "Summer 2012". The 1500Euro HDVD 800 will launch in September.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

wow very nice!


----------



## our martin

HIGH END 2012: Sennheiser debuts HDVD 800 digital headphone amp  5 May 2012   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  We missed this new Sennheiser headphone amp when it broke cover in April, but spotted it at the High End show in Munich this week.
  The digital HDVD 800 has a fully symmetrical layout and can handle sampling frequencies of up to 24-bit/192kHz. It's been developed to work particularly with Sennheiser's HD series of high-end headphones.
  Sennheiser provides a specially made cable for a symmetrical connection from the headphones to the amp. The headphones can also be connected using a normal 6.3mm jack.
  For use with digital sources, the HDVD 800 is equipped with a Burr-Brown digital-to-analogue converter (DAC). Digital connections include an AES/EBU input, optical, coaxial and USB sockets. The USB 2.0 port offers 24-bit data transmission at 192kHz.




  A rotary gain switch on the rear of the amplifier provides regulation of the amplifier output to the audio input voltage.
  Both the housing and potentiometer control, as well as the rotary switch for source selection, are made of anodised aluminium, while the front panel and other controls are milled from solid material.
  "With the HDVD 800, Sennheiser is... providing the perfect combination of Sennheiser headphones and a specially matched amplifier," says Maurice Quarré, director of Sennheiser's product lifecycle management.
  The Sennheiser HDVD 800 will be available in Europe from September.


----------



## GL1TCH3D

My biggest problem with the IE800 is they look like they're open back, meaning they'll lack isolation.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





gl1tch3d said:


> My biggest problem with the IE800 is they look like they're open back, meaning they'll lack isolation.


 
   
  That's precisely what I'm hoping for.  I have enough isolating IEMs already.  Give me superb low volume listening in as open a design as possible please, thx.


----------



## dleblanc343

So I've reached the point where I can put down money for two amps (for two different locations) for my HD800's. Ideally, I'm looking for an SS amp that will pair well with the hd800's. It's a challenge, but I'd prefer to avoid purchasing/replacing and matching tubes; it can get out of hand. For SS amps, I was thinking Mjolnir, Bryston BHA-1, HDVD 800 (hopefully the synergy is '_meant to be_') or the SPL Phonitor.
   
  I've loaned the Hifiman EF6, and found it to be a disappointment, but it was pre-production.. Also tried out the BHA-1 which wasn't actually that harsh considering it's Bryston. I liked it, but I wonder how it compares.
   
  Otherwise I'd get the WA22, my initial choice... Thing is, it's pricier and it uses tubes. Maybe if I get one tube amp and one SS, I'd just settle for this.
   
  Anyone have good recommendations of SS amps for the HD800's. Doesn't necessarily need to warm the sound/tame the highs; but if it doesn't, I'd like something as transparent as possible that wouldn't boost the highs.
  
  Schiit Mjolnir/ Bryston BHA-1/ HDVD 800/ SPL Phonitor/ Woo Audio WA22. Opinions, feedback and recommendations are up for discussion!


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





dleblanc343 said:


> So I've reached the point where I can put down money for two amps (for two different locations) for my HD800's. Ideally, I'm looking for an SS amp that will pair well with the hd800's. It's a challenge, but I'd prefer to avoid purchasing/replacing and matching tubes; it can get out of hand. For SS amps, I was thinking Mjolnir, Bryston BHA-1, HDVD 800 (hopefully the synergy is '_meant to be_') or the SPL Phonitor.
> 
> I've loaned the Hifiman EF6, and found it to be a disappointment, but it was pre-production.. Also tried out the BHA-1 which wasn't actually that harsh considering it's Bryston. I liked it, but I wonder how it compares.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  There's the GS-1 / GS-X- They're as transparent as your going to get.  I like the M^3 with the HD800s, the M^3 is a very warm SS amp - pair vary well with bright headphones.  I heard good things about the V200 and the Soloist as well.


----------



## jc9394

dleblanc343 said:


> So I've reached the point where I can put down money for two amps (for two different locations) for my HD800's. Ideally, I'm looking for an SS amp that will pair well with the hd800's. It's a challenge, but I'd prefer to avoid purchasing/replacing and matching tubes; it can get out of hand. For SS amps, I was thinking Mjolnir, Bryston BHA-1, HDVD 800 (hopefully the synergy is '_meant to be_') or the SPL Phonitor.
> 
> I've loaned the Hifiman EF6, and found it to be a disappointment, but it was pre-production.. Also tried out the BHA-1 which wasn't actually that harsh considering it's Bryston. I liked it, but I wonder how it compares.
> 
> ...




You will not disappointed with either beta22 or WA22, I love both pairing with hd800.


----------



## dleblanc343

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> You will not disappointed with either beta22 or WA22, I love both pairing with hd800.


 

 I slightly preferred the wa22 over the beta. The beta is SS, but it's too big for my desk area lol!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dleblanc343 said:


> I slightly preferred the wa22 over the beta. The beta is SS, but it's too big for my desk area lol!


 
   
  With WA22, you will need to upgrade the tubes.  The stock one does not pair well with HD800.


----------



## dleblanc343

yeah that's the thing. The one I had on loan had upgraded tubes, that's why I liked it. And that's also why I'd prefer not getting it because I can imagine the stock tubes not quite doing the job. I think I actually preferred the bha-1 when compared next to the b22. Audio memory is literally nothing though, so I can't quite confirm this either.
   
  Any experience with the Phonitor guys?


----------



## preproman

You say you liked the Bryston better than the Beta?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





preproman said:


> You say you liked the Bryston better than the Beta?


 
   
  Not sonically, maybe he mean the size wise.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dleblanc343 said:


> yeah that's the thing. The one I had on loan had upgraded tubes, that's why I liked it. And that's also why I'd prefer not getting it because I can imagine the stock tubes not quite doing the job. I think I actually preferred the bha-1 when compared next to the b22. Audio memory is literally nothing though, so I can't quite confirm this either.
> 
> Any experience with the Phonitor guys?


 
   
  If you do you research, the upgrade tube are not that bad.
   
  TS 5998 ~ 150/pair
  Treasure ~ 150/pair
  USAF 596 ~ 40/each
   
  My preference for HD800 with budget
  GEC 6080 or TS 5998 
  TS 6F8G
  USAF 596 or EML 5U4G
   
  Money no object
  GEC 6AS7G
  TS 6SN7 BGRP 
  USAF 596 or EML 5U4G


----------



## dleblanc343

Quote: 





preproman said:


> You say you liked the Bryston better than the Beta?


 
  Well, like I said, I barely remember each of their respective sound sigs; but I did try the Bryston for a longer period with more tracks. The b22 was not balanced, whereas the bryston was. From what I remember, the Bryston was more transparent and imaged a bit better. I'm gonna have to compare again! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> If you do you research, the upgrade tube are not that bad.
> 
> TS 5998 ~ 150/pair
> Treasure ~ 150/pair
> ...


 
  Thanks for the recommendations, I'll be doing a bit of research I guess. If I can get a worthwhile upgrade in sound over stock while maintaining tube budget under 500$, then I may just buy the WA22 and whatever other SS that synergizes well with the HD800


----------



## dleblanc343

Quote: 





preproman said:


> You say you liked the Bryston better than the Beta?


 

 I just noticed on your profile that you own both. Owning them makes it much easier to get a consensus. What are your opinions on each in comparison to one another? Have you compared them side by side at any point?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





dleblanc343 said:


> I just noticed on your profile that you own both. Owning them makes it much easier to get a consensus. What are your opinions on each in comparison to one another? Have you compared them side by side at any point?


 
   
  The Bryston is on it's way soon.  It's going to have to be a really good one to beat this Beta.


----------



## our martin

I use my hd800s with a adl gt40 amp/dac in my loft recording studio.. i thought about getting a wa6 after a good read through all the threads on headfi and the woo audio amp coming out as the top choice for the hd800s i but didn't in the end through lack of space i know it's $120 over your budget but if you look on the for sale forums one just might pop up..


----------



## AlanHell

Just wait for 20 more days, you will see how good the HDVD 800 is~~~~~ For me, I am going to buy it right away. I trust a company that can pull off the HE90 system is capable of design an headphone amp that works ultra good with there own headphones.


----------



## Anaxilus

Why is the BHA-1 being talked about as if it can't compete on transparency?  It kills the V200, Burson, Phonitor in that regard.  It's one of the most transparent SS amps I've heard.  People have been saying the GS1/X is perhaps less so.  I'm hoping to hear the BHA-1 versus the Luxman P200, GSX and production Mjolnir soon.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





alanhell said:


> Just wait for 20 more days, you will see how good the HDVD 800 is~~~~~ For me, I am going to buy it right away. I trust a company that can pull off the HE90 system is capable of design an headphone amp that works ultra good with there own headphones.


 
   
  Umm, are you aware of the bad HE90 amps they released or just the good ones?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Why is the BHA-1 being talked about as if it can't compete on transparency?  It kills the V200, Burson, Phonitor in that regard.  It's one of the most transparent SS amps I've heard.  People have been saying the GS1/X is perhaps less so.  I'm hoping to hear the BHA-1 versus the Luxman P200, GSX and production Mjolnir soon.


 
   
   
  I agree with this statement 100%  
   
  Though I do find the GS-1 as being one of the most transparent amp I have ever heard.  The BHA-1 is running side by side with it in that regard.  As Anaxilus said.  The BHA-1 just kills those other amps in transparency.  It's really in a different league all together.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





preproman said:


> The Bryston is on it's way soon.  It's going to have to be a really good one to beat this Beta.


 
   
   
  Well, I siad this two weeks ago before I got the BHA-1.  Now I have to said the BHA-1 beat the Beta in more ares than the Beta beat the BHA-1 in.  The only real thing the Beta has over the BHA-1 IMHO would be Bass impact, and Attack.  Now with that being said.  The BHA-1 is no slouch when it comes to these areas - not at all, in fact it has a different level of Bass quality than any amp I've heard.  It will make you love the HD800 on a SS amp for this very reason.


----------



## Trogdor

negakinu said:


> If you don't like the HD800's sound from your current amp, sell it or return it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




This. Yes, their are synergistic qualities with certain combos but in general, amps give more of seasoning or flavoring if you will. Not a total over haul in sound.

The HD800 does not have a lot of bass impact compared to other high-end options and it has been documented in several places that there is a bit of funkiness (6kHz spike) in the treble.

Sure tubage can add some soothing fuzz to quell the harshness (at the cost of transparency if you ask me, but I'm not a tube guy). That's the whole draw of tubes.

I owned the HD800 for several months and then sold it. Its a great headphone but not for everyone. 

Negakinu gave you the best advice. Sell it and look for something that is more your sound profile and matches the music you listen too.


----------



## dleblanc343

Quote: 





preproman said:


> You say you liked the Bryston better than the Beta?


 
   
  Quote: 





preproman said:


> Well, I siad this two weeks ago before I got the BHA-1.  Now I have to said the BHA-1 beat the Beta in more ares than the Beta beat the BHA-1 in.  The only real thing the Beta has over the BHA-1 IMHO would be Bass impact, and Attack.  Now with that being said.  The BHA-1 is no slouch when it comes to these areas - not at all, in fact it has a different level of Bass quality than any amp I've heard.  It will make you love the HD800 on a SS amp for this very reason.


 
  Well, at least now my statement makes sense! I was honestly very surprised by the Bryston, I know people would have a hard time believing me when I said I preferred it to the Beta but it seems like you can even agree now.
   
  Wonder how the mjolnir stacks up against the BHA-1


----------



## preproman

I saw one guy that had both amps in his sig.  I'm not sure if he really has both or not.  I asked him to compare them, no reply as of yet.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





dleblanc343 said:


> Well, at least now my statement makes sense! I was honestly very surprised by the Bryston, I know people would have a hard time believing me when I said I preferred it to the Beta but it seems like you can even agree now.
> 
> Wonder how the mjolnir stacks up against the BHA-1


 
   
  Don't get me wrong.  The Beta is still the funner amp to listen to.  But that's because of the color it adds, where as the BHA-1 does not add color, if it does it's very little.


----------



## jackwess

How would you rank the Bryston, soloist and the beta in terms of transparency?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





jackwess said:


> How would you rank the Bryston, soloist and the beta in terms of transparency?


 
   
  Well, IMHO the Beta is not a transparent amp.  However, the BHA-1 excels in transparency.  I have not heard the Soloist.


----------



## our martin

Quote: 





alanhell said:


> Just wait for 20 more days, you will see how good the HDVD 800 is~~~~~ For me, I am going to buy it right away. I trust a company that can pull off the HE90 system is capable of design an headphone amp that works ultra good with there own headphones.


 
  I agree!


----------



## buson160man

Wow that new sennheiser amp sure looks sexy.Any one heard it yet and what does it cost? How does the onboard dac sound?


----------



## paceee

Quote: 





buson160man said:


> Wow that new sennheiser amp sure looks sexy.Any one heard it yet and what does it cost? How does the onboard dac sound?


 
  anyone?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i read some impressions saying that its not very good.


----------



## telecaster

I might chime in saying my and only my opinion, is that tube amps rock!
  If I had the money I would have gone for a full tube amps and pre for my loudspeaker setup but as I very much like DSP and active filtering and multiamping, tube would have been such a monstruous and expensive system. So practically discrete amp is good enough for my situation.
  On the other and with a simple headphone amp, you can enjoy the beauty of good designed tube amp without taking a loan, and really tube amp sound very good compared to comparative discrete amps.
  HD800 is better on tube amps is not a surprise, as most cans will sound better with tubes. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## Tassie Devil

Quote: 





trunk said:


> Hi,
> I recently bought the HD800 with a Nuforce Icon HDP dac/amp and I'm mostly disappointed.
> The high notes sound too harsh to my ears and the bass is pretty much nonexistent, I find myself using my old and much cheaper Denon AH-D1001 instead..
> Did anyone have a similar experience with the HD800? Is this something that can be fixed by a better amp? Or is this just the overall signature of these cans?
> ...


 
  I'm moving away from it now, but the NuForce DAC9 matches up VERY nicely, particularly with balanced connector to the phones.  I've just been through the agony of researching for something better and that was impossible to find in this price bracket.  So I've now ordered an M2 Vaughn at a much higher price bracket than the DAC 9.  At the moment I'm hanging on the that DAC'headamp as it also sounds very nice on AGK 702s.  To give you a reference - I had Steve Nugent extensively modify a Benchmark DAC1 with the total cost running at abour $5k.  The DAC 9 sounded better - not just my opinion but verified by a couple of other audiophiles.  It is a very musical unit.  You might be lucky to locate one used, although they rarely come on to the market.  That tells you something too!  If you get one from NuForce direct they will refund your money if dissatisfied - that is what finally seduced me to try it out and I have not been sorry.   Maybe worth your while doing that too.  PM me if I can give any more help as I do not intend to follow up on this thread.
   
  BUT, GIGO applies with a vengeance with the HD800.  If your source is mediocre then these phones will let the nasties through. No DAC can improve on poor input.
   
  ASUS are now producing some nice DAC/headamps - Google for them.
   
  Good luck with your hunt.  It can be a frustrating exercise.
   
  John


----------



## Painterspal

HD800 sounds really balanced with my Icon Audio HP8 mk2, particularly with the NOS Mullard ECC83 tube. Good deep bass, smooth top end - just fantastic. Blows away the v200 imo.


----------



## Docks

Sell the HD800s and get a different can, they are too bright and have rolled off bass. If you are looking for flat response from 1 or 2khz to 20hz consider audeze or hifiman offerings. Don't shape the sound with the overpriced "audiophile" amps that only shape the sound. Amps are made to amplify, dacs are made to convert. Nothing else.


----------



## dleblanc343

Quote: 





docks said:


> Sell the HD800s and get a different can, they are too bright and have rolled off bass. If you are looking for flat response from 1 or 2khz to 20hz consider audeze or hifiman offerings. Don't shape the sound with the overpriced "audiophile" amps that only shape the sound. Amps are made to amplify, dacs are made to convert. Nothing else.


 
  Have you ever heard an HD800 lol? The bass is not ortho good, but the headphones definitely do not roll off in the bass unless poorly amped. I own the HD800/HE6/LCD3 and I acknowledge the HD800 being less bassy; but they still compete and do many, if not most things better than the two orthos.


----------



## preproman

^^^ While this is very true.  Sometimes the HD800s are just not that fun to listen to.  Where the orthos have a very fun sig.  IMO..


----------



## Docks

Quote: 





dleblanc343 said:


> Have you ever heard an HD800 lol? The bass is not ortho good, but the headphones definitely do not roll off in the bass unless poorly amped. I own the HD800/HE6/LCD3 and I acknowledge the HD800 being less bassy; but they still compete and do many, if not most things better than the two orthos.


 

 Yes I have "lol".
  I'm saying that the hd800 "frowny face" eq isn't the end game for all (rolled off bass after 100hz and sharp square waves verify my listening impressions), and certainly not for me on any level considering my taste in electronic music they are very disappointing/harsh/overpriced.

 I can't see these being enjoyable on anything except classical music.


----------



## dleblanc343

Quote: 





preproman said:


> ^^^ While this is very true.  Sometimes the HD800s are just not that fun to listen to.  Where the orthos have a very fun sig.  IMO..


 
  They definitely don't have the viscerality of the orthos, that's why my HE6 get most head time! But you can get the HD800 to sound really fun with the proper amp; it's just a HUGE hassle.
  Quote: 





docks said:


> Yes I have "lol".
> I'm saying that the hd800 "frowny face" eq isn't the end game for all (rolled off bass after 100hz and sharp square waves verify my listening impressions), and certainly not for me on any level considering my taste in electronic music they are very disappointing/harsh/overpriced.
> 
> I can't see these being enjoyable on anything except classical music.


 
  YMMV. But calling them harsh is relative to what you are feeding them. And I also disagree that they are overpriced. For the exceptional build quality and unmatched technical performance of the headphone; the price is entirely justified imo. I'm more inclined to say that the LCD-3 is more overpriced, and aside from maybe the drivers; the production costs of the LCD-3 are definitely smaller.
   
  Just because you do not like the HD800 does not make it a bad headphone. I did not like it at all either at first. But after playing around with different components, I found out that this headphone is like no other. It literally morphs to what you feed it. Your jaw would drop if you tried it on a vintage Quad amp, trust me; the bass is not lacking (bottomless extension, incredible harmonics and no clipping) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
   
  I would not necessarily associate headphones with musical genres either. On some edm, my HD800's sound better than my LCD-3. It depends on the recording and the contents of the song.
   
  It's like saying that a Bower and Wilkins 800D is better than a Paradigm Signature tower for classical, when the paradigm is better for electronic/pop/hard rock... You can't generalize unfortunately.


----------



## olor1n

Don't bother dlebanc343. I doubt Docks' experience with the HD800 is substantial enough to place any value in his *views*. Anyone who has spent any time with this headphone should be as bemused by the hyperbole he's spreading as I am.


----------



## Docks

Your two above comments are merely your opinions vs mine. Fact is lcds have flat bass to 20hz and the HD800s are rolled off making the hd800s a poor choice for edm.


----------



## rawrster

Can you clarify the "frowny face eq"?
   
   
  Also I do agree that the HD800 is overpriced but I consider all of the headphones at this price range to be overpriced. The price jump from the flagships of old to the current flagships are quite large and ridiculous imo. It goes from the $200-350 or so range to over $1k. It would make more sense to be priced at say $700-800 or so but that's just wishful thinking and price gouging imo


----------



## Docks

Quote:


rawrster said:


> Can you clarify the "frowny face eq"?
> 
> 
> Also I do agree that the HD800 is overpriced but I consider all of the headphones at this price range to be overpriced. The price jump from the flagships of old to the current flagships are quite large and ridiculous imo. It goes from the $200-350 or so range to over $1k. It would make more sense to be priced at say $700-800 or so but that's just wishful thinking and price gouging imo


 
   
  Just to cheer things up a bit in here ^^. The treble roll is generally considered acceptable to account for the proximity to the ears (note peaks around 5-6khz which can cause fatigue. Some peaks are common from 8-10khz as the ear is a bit less sensitive to this area as it is more sensitive between 1-2 to 5-6khz) but the bass is rolled off causing instruments below about 90hz to suffer (also note ears are least sensitive in the bass area). However my main gripe with these phones is electronic music (lots of 40 - 20hz content and lower in some cases), it's just too bright and lacking bass.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





docks said:


> Sell the HD800s and get a different can, they are too bright and have rolled off bass. If you are looking for flat response from 1 or 2khz to 20hz consider audeze or hifiman offerings. Don't shape the sound with the overpriced "audiophile" amps that only shape the sound. Amps are made to amplify, dacs are made to convert. Nothing else.


 
   
  Have you ever heard HD800 with other amps?  When it is drive by my Marantz receiver, it has plenty of bass.  Out of beta22, the bass is light but no where I heard any roll off.  It is faint but definitely there.  Out of WooAudio WA22 with right tubes, it just sound as the recording is meant to be.


----------



## reeltime

I've been interested and following (even contributed) to this thread for quite a while.  As I've dumped invested more and more money into my HD-800 headphone chain, the more fun the sound seems to get.  
   
  I've moved from an HD-650 with a Woo WA6, changed the headphone to the HD-800, and wound up with a minor upgrade in sound.  After finding a WA5 on eBay for a steal, the HD-800 changed dramatically.  
   
  The bass must have been there all along, just waiting for the right amp to unleash it.  
   
  The biggest change in the WA5 was in the power tube upgrade.  Pulling out the Tung Sols for PSVANE Treasure has added an entire new dimension to the sound.  And I still have a 300B output tube upgrade to go.  But now, looking back, I'm going to be well over $3000 dollars invested in amplification for a $1500 dollar headphone.   
   
  If you believe Mike over at Headphonia, this is pretty much what you should expect when moving to a top-line headphone like the HD-800, if you're looking to get the most out of them.  
   
  But now I'm at the mercy of the recording, and I'm on a mad hunt for quality source material.
   
  I'm still using the Burson 160D for the DAC, and it's become the weak link in the audio chain.  I'll probably be looking at the Benchmark DAC-1 for another $1500 at some point.
   
  This addiction-- it's costly.  And I'm beginning to understand why folks are unimpressed when they plug the HD-800 into a $400 dollar-- or even a $800 dollar amp with the expectation of being blown away.


----------



## shinex64

I'm actually with a 3 week old HD800, and I'm amping it with the Epiphany O2D (O2+ODAC in one box), and I think it's fine but I'm sure I'll get a better sound with a bigger amp,
   
  I listen to EDM mostly and for my ears is really good, the HE400 is more bassy but the bass on the HD800 is, again, to me, really good. Trance is not really bassy as, say, Deadmau5' style, so I'm in love with these headphones.
   
  I'll probably be looking at the Eximus DP1 or a Burson Conductor (I want an all-in-one box: dac+amp+preamp), and I'm expecting a BIG increase in sound quality, if not I'll realize that hifi is just snake oil, *so big expectations on this thread*.
   
   
  Take care!


----------



## Neosk

But a lot of hi-fi *is* snake oil. =/


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





neosk said:


> But a lot of hi-fi *is* snake oil. =/


----------



## reeltime

I have the 160D.  It's built really well, but my personal preference is the tube sound with the HD800.  The Burson sounds a bit bright to me through the Sennheiser, but I haven't heard their Conductor, only its predecessor.  The Burson has a nice DAC, and a great preamp for my Genelecs.


----------



## AustinHorn

I'm shocked that no one has mentioned the Bottlehead Crack kit amp as an excellent budget match with the hd800s, esp with the speedball upgrade. I tried the combo at a meet recently, & was shocked at just what a good match it is/was. It proves you don't have to spend $2000+ on an amp to get a darn good match with the HD800. Anyway for those on a limited budget it would make a great starter setup as you save for that $2000+ ultimate tube amp. Just sayin...


----------



## Z06_Pilot

I started with the Xonar sound card when i first bought my HD800's.  Obviously, I had a lot to learn regarding how best to drive the HD800's !
   
  After reading a LOT of info, I found the promised land for driving HD800's to my taste in the world of Woo Audio.
   
  the Woo DAC and WA6SE amp with Woo's optional tubes did the trick for me.  Smoothed out the highs and really accentuated the low end with that warm traditional tube sound.  I am one happy camper with the HD800s now.  
   
  But as others have said, they are also pretty music-specific.
   
  The wide soundstage really lends itself to classical/symphony pieces extremely well.  Their accuracy put vocals up front and center with absolutely no veil whatsoever.  Adele, Jesse Winchester, etc, sound as if I am on stage right next to them.  Blows me away every time.
   
  And the HD800's tell the truth, always.  A questionable recording or mastering job on the recording will be heard loud and clear in all it's sonic misery with the HD800's. 
   
  I agree with others.....tubes are the way to go with the HD800's.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





reeltime said:


> I've been interested and following (even contributed) to this thread for quite a while.  As I've dumped invested more and more money into my HD-800 headphone chain, the more fun the sound seems to get.
> 
> I've moved from an HD-650 with a Woo WA6, changed the headphone to the HD-800, and wound up with a minor upgrade in sound.  After finding a WA5 on eBay for a steal, the HD-800 changed dramatically.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I recommend to reconsider this, it is not a good match...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I recommend to reconsider this, it is not a good match...


 
   
  +1


----------



## reeltime

Thanks, I wound up purchasing a Wyred4sound W4S DAC-2.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ooooh good choice!


----------



## jtinto

Good choice ++


----------



## FxTkd

Just picked up HD800's and their fantastic!!
  The question is what direction should I take in buying AMP/DAC.
  I read a lot of reviews WA6se (NO DAC) and it seems the right way to go however I really have know place to demo the WA6se's.
  On the other hand the Burson Conductor seems to be a great Amp/Dac combo HD800s as well.
   
  I am using a MacBook Pro with VLC, playing Flac files....I am really amazed how great it sounds  just plugged in my MBP's audio jack without an amp.
  In contrast Itunes, AIFF lossless souds very bad. The VLC gives it a huge improvement, as if its being amplified, Any thoughts on why?
   
  Any help would be appreciated.
   
  Thanks


----------



## The Monkey

Luxman P-1 or P-1u.


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





fxtkd said:


> Just picked up HD800's and their fantastic!!
> The question is what direction should I take in buying AMP/DAC.
> I read a lot of reviews WA6se (NO DAC) and it seems the right way to go however I really have know place to demo the WA6se's.
> On the other hand the Burson Conductor seems to be a great Amp/Dac combo HD800s as well.
> ...


 
   
  What's your budget?


----------



## jackwess

You mentioned two outstanding units. Do you prefer tubes or Solid state? where do you live? hopefully there's a place where you can demo gear, such as the Conductor or the Soloist.


----------



## FxTkd

Quote: 





jackwess said:


> You mentioned two outstanding units. Do you prefer tubes or Solid state? where do you live? hopefully there's a place where you can demo gear, such as the Conductor or the Soloist.


 
   
   
  Well, that's the dilemma. I haven't heard the WA6se and in Toronto(GTA) no dealer is carring the Woo products in their stores. The conductor is an amp I will be able to sample in a couple of weeks. I have a very hard time ordering something that I haven't teasted myself first.
  The other amp/dac combo is the HDVD800. I think I will wait to test an compare the Conductor together. There is a member("thinker) in this forum that has the unit and absolutely thinks its the best amp/dac match for the HD800's and hesems well informed.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/605444/sennheiser-hdvd800-headphone-amplifier/285​  ​ Any thoughts?​


----------



## AlanHell

Quote: 





atomiccow said:


> The HD800 is not just choosy about the amp, its choosy about the music. It cannot do anything to improve badly recorded music with narrow soundstage. You need a much more forward phone like the LCD-2 to play this well. It is excellent for classical and jazz but not for rock and definately not electronica.
> 
> Try a phone like the LCD-2, a Beyer, or a Sennhieser HD600/650. These are in general much more forward in presentation and much better recommendation for playing a wide variety of music because they will not ruin tracks with inherently narrow soundstage. I did extensive listening on my friends HD800 setup driven by a Rudistor RPX-35 before I made my decision to purchase the LCD-2. The HD800 is a dead end for rock/pop.


 

 sadly, you toss away your LCD2 and join the HD800 club now ~~~~~
  Guess HD650 is that good~~


----------



## reeltime

My thoughts--
   
  I had the Conductor's predecessor, the 160D -- Not my favorite amp-- I eventually sold it after relegating it to use as a DAC only.  I liked the Woo WA6 better with the HD800 than the 160D, once I got to rolling higher end tubes.  If you can go for a better amp, like the WA6SE, the sound improves dramatically. 
   
  The Burson had poor shielding and was prone to picking up any noise in the area.
   
  For me, the 160D was a great entry level into high end amplification, to my ears it did have a great sound stage, but it came across as harsh once I put it up against other amps-- I fell out of love with it and we agreed to be friends. 
   
  I've found the HD800 to be very sensitive around 7-9khz range-- It also loves a LOT of power in reserve to move the massive cone.  The HD800 has been called "picky" about its amp pairings. 
   
  The 160D seemed to emphasize the very range where the HD800 is so sensitive, and it's not a power king, so in the end-- I found it a bad match and sold it off.
   
  Don't know how much the Conductor changes this dynamic, but I so enjoy the tube experience, I won't be going back.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

^ 
   
  +1, WA6-SE is very nice with the hd 800 and the right tubes


----------



## jackwess

Quote: 





fxtkd said:


> Well, that's the dilemma. I haven't heard the WA6se and in Toronto(GTA) no dealer is carring the Woo products in their stores. The conductor is an amp I will be able to sample in a couple of weeks. I have a very hard time ordering something that I haven't teasted myself first.
> The other amp/dac combo is the HDVD800. I think I will wait to test an compare the Conductor together. There is a member("thinker) in this forum that has the unit and absolutely thinks its the best amp/dac match for the HD800's and hesems well informed.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/605444/sennheiser-hdvd800-headphone-amplifier/285​  ​ Any thoughts?​


 
   
  Sorry but where i live its hard to see this model (available to demo) plus, its designed specifically for Sennheiser hp's? 
  I'd get a headamp that goes well with a wide variety of headphone brands.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Out of WooAudio WA22 with right tubes, it just sound as the recording is meant to be.


 
   
  Quote: 





fxtkd said:


> Just picked up HD800's and their fantastic!!
> The question is what direction should I take in buying AMP/DAC


 
   
   
_[size=medium]Could This Be the Ultimate Headphone System?[/size]_


----------



## runswithaliens

Quote: 





grokit said:


> _[size=medium]Could This Be the Ultimate Headphone System?[/size]_


 
   
  I wouldn't trust a review from anyone who spends this kind of money on cables: "[size=x-small]AKG K701's [/size][size=x-small]modified to use about 15 feet of Audio Note AN-SPx speaker cable which, at last count, cost at least $1K per meter".[/size]


----------



## applebook

The HD800 might not be ideal for rock, but it's definitely more suited than the LCD-2.


----------



## applebook

Quote: 





runswithaliens said:


> I wouldn't trust a review from anyone who spends this kind of money on cables: "[size=x-small]AKG K701's [/size][size=x-small]modified to use about 15 feet of Audio Note AN-SPx speaker cable which, at last count, cost at least $1K per meter".[/size]


 
  Are you suggesting that a $200 headphone with $1000 cable is inferior to a $1200 headphone?! Surely, you're not!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





runswithaliens said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I have the same setup--but not the cables--and I can confirm that the HD800 is very good out of the WA22 with the tubes mentioned. The cables are entirely optional, and I agree that they are completely unnecessary. But I would certainly use them if they were laying around, which they would be for a professional reviewer.


----------



## dleblanc343

Quote: 





fxtkd said:


> Well, that's the dilemma. I haven't heard the WA6se and in Toronto(GTA) no dealer is carring the Woo products in their stores. The conductor is an amp I will be able to sample in a couple of weeks. I have a very hard time ordering something that I haven't teasted myself first.
> The other amp/dac combo is the HDVD800. I think I will wait to test an compare the Conductor together. There is a member("thinker) in this forum that has the unit and absolutely thinks its the best amp/dac match for the HD800's and hesems well informed.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/605444/sennheiser-hdvd800-headphone-amplifier/285​  ​ Any thoughts?​


 
  Come to the audio show this weekend in Montreal, you will be able to try all Woo products. We also sell Burson products and the new Sennheiser amps in the store I work at currentyl


----------



## FxTkd

Quote: 





dleblanc343 said:


> Come to the audio show this weekend in Montreal, you will be able to try all Woo products. We also sell Burson products and the new Sennheiser amps in the store I work at currentyl


 
   
  I am in Toronto. I wish I could just drive down this weekend, unfortunately work takes precedent.
  I would like to ask you what is your honest opinion between the Burson Conductor vs HDVD 800 for the hd800s.
  Btw, what's the name of your store?
  Thanks


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





runswithaliens said:


> I wouldn't trust a review from anyone who spends this kind of money on cables: "[size=x-small]AKG K701's [/size][size=x-small]modified to use about 15 feet of Audio Note AN-SPx speaker cable which, at last count, cost at least $1K per meter".[/size]


 
   
  Who spent $1000 on a headphone cable?


----------



## runswithaliens

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Who spent $1000 on a headphone cable?


 
   
  Nobody. The reviewer says the cable uses "15 feet" of cable that [size=small]"cost at least $1K per meter[/size]".  That would make it a FIVE THOUSAND DOLLAR HEADPHONE CABLE!  Meanwhile respected Professional Studio Engineers say if you are paying more than $10/foot for cable you are throwing away your money. But this thread isn't about cables or reviews where the author seems to be bragging about how expensive their equipment is... Cheers.


----------



## zigy626

Just to add to this thread I have just received the Meier Corda Jazz and connected it with the Audiolab M-Dac and not getting any real joy out of the combination. Wondering if I made a mistake buying the Corda Jazz. The soundstage i am getting on the HD800 is narrow and not as expansive as maybe the AKG K702. Instrument separation is also sub-par. The performance I am getting out of this setup would be OK if it was the HD 650.


----------



## rosgr63

Glenn's OTL has got some nice reviews lately about how well it matches the HD800 and T1.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/600110/2359glenn-studio/2205


----------



## hainss

Which one is the best for me: Phonitor or Bryston BHA-1 (balanced) with HD-800? I am very analytical and I just want to have best reproduction.
   
  Thanks


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i think the bryston would be slightly brighter and more analytical while the phonitor will be more neutral, i could be wrong though, haven't heard them. the phonitor is supposed to be a really nice amp with hd 800 and u can always play with the crossfeed and other options it has.


----------



## Wpsupporter

Love my HD800 with Woo WA22 using Cardas balanced cables.  Just had to find the right tubes.


----------



## AlanHell

Live in Toronto, just got my HDVD800 from Bay & Bloor radio today.
   
  It sounds amazing out of box for everything I pumped in. However, you have to use the Balance end of the amp, the single ended is not better than my RPX-35 + DAC1 system.
   
  The HDVD800 added more weight to the bass and put sharper highs the the already shape HD800. The result is very big sound stage + very clear sound. I think they tune the HD800 perfectly as what they should sound like, even Hip-hop and rap sounds good on it now. I do have an Balanced T1, and it does not sound as good as I get from HD800 for the same reason. The bass is a bit too much and the treble is a bit too much around 8K range.
   
  If any one live close to downtown Toronto, pay a visit to BBR and try to audition the HDVD800, you will find it impressed.
   
  P.S.
  I am not a tube lover cause I do not like Distorted sound on both low end and high ends. However, for people like the smooth coloring, I heard that Woo Audio is a very good choice.


----------



## dleblanc343

Quote: 





alanhell said:


> Live in Toronto, just got my HDVD800 from Bay & Bloor radio today.
> 
> It sounds amazing out of box for everything I pumped in. However, you have to use the Balance end of the amp, the single ended is not better than my RPX-35 + DAC1 system.
> 
> ...


 
  You should check out the HDVD800 thread and leave your opinion there. With all this praise, I'm starting to wonder if the unit I was promoting at the audio show was pre-production... I wasn't incredibly impressed with it. Perhaps my system is just that much better. I'm letting the store unit burn in so I can give it another proper listening session.


----------



## AlanHell

Quote: 





dleblanc343 said:


> You should check out the HDVD800 thread and leave your opinion there. With all this praise, I'm starting to wonder if the unit I was promoting at the audio show was pre-production... I wasn't incredibly impressed with it. Perhaps my system is just that much better. I'm letting the store unit burn in so I can give it another proper listening session.


 

 Well, I think it is a personal thing. The tube V.S. Solid State debate will never end. Some ppl like the smoothness, warmness with more "feeling" of the music , others likes the "precision" and "accuracy" with very flat response. For me, as a HD800 lover, I like their house tuning and do not want that to be changed.
  Hence, the HDVD800 sounds better compare to the other tube amp I have tried. However, I have never tried any high end tube amps(2000+ dollars), so I can not make the statement that HDVD800 sounds the best. With the price, the HDVD800 dose proved more detail and sound stage compare to my other SS amps. Therefor, I think it is worth a try for people that is still looking for a good match for HD800s.
   
  I am actually making HD650 balance cables and see how well the 650 preforms on it.


----------



## dleblanc343

I ended up with a tube amp but always swore I would not go that route. The best ss amps I've tried with the HD800 are the likes of b22, bha-1, phonitor and many ss speaker amps. I would love to try the GSX mk II though.

I still have my mjolnir, but it's been collecting dust :/


----------



## AlanHell

I think DACs matters a lot. Mine is just mid range one, so maybe it does not fully display the potential of an amp. 
I heard GSX is a very good amp. Not sure how good it is compare to the BHA1 with dedicated power supply.


----------



## barid

My hd800 sounds much nicer on the wa2 vs my soloist. Still sounds good from the soloist though. Personal preference i suppose. 

Still like vocals and tone on the t1's best


----------



## AlanHell

barid said:


> My hd800 sounds much nicer on the wa2 vs my soloist. Still sounds good from the soloist though. Personal preference i suppose.
> 
> Still like vocals and tone on the t1's best




Have both phone, keeped both of them for sure.
The tuning for both phone are very special for me.


----------



## zigy626

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/icon-audio-hp8-mk2-tube-headphone-amplifier-page-2
   
  Has anyone tried this British amplifier with the HD800? The name of the company is Icon Audio and is based in Leicester. I wonder if it is any better than the Woo Audio amp?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





barid said:


> My hd800 sounds much nicer on the wa2 vs my soloist. Still sounds good from the soloist though. Personal preference i suppose.
> 
> Still like vocals and tone on the t1's best


 
   
   





   
   
  nice headphones btw


----------



## SuPrbly

I just bought the hd800's and woo wa7, this suppose to be a really great combo. When I get it in I will surely post my impressions.


----------



## formula1

suprbly said:


> I just bought the hd800's and woo wa7, this suppose to be a really great combo. When I get it in I will surely post my impressions.


 
  
 A decent combo. Some recommend the Electro Harmonix tubes over the stock ones.


----------



## SuPrbly

formula1 said:


> A decent combo. Some recommend the Electro Harmonix tubes over the stock ones.


 
 Yep I got them. It's pretty much a must have upgrade, from what I have heard.


----------



## zilch0md

Trunk,
  
 You started an interesting thread (that I've just finished reading), but you never gave us an update on your purchase of the Violectric V200...
  
 Quote:


trunk said:


> Thanks for the replys everyone.
> I admit I'm very reluctant about getting a tube amp- seems like a lot of hassle and considering I've never listened to one, it seems risky.
> With that said, currently I'm focusing on these amps:
> * Violectric v200 (the top contender right now, but I can't find information about the quality of its optional DAC - anyone has any experience with it? Especialliy with the HD800 )
> ...


 
  


trunk said:


> I've ended up ordering the Violectric V200. As I've said, I'm reluctant at this point to start getting into tubes.
> Will update once it gets here...


 
  
 Uhh...  I just checked his profile - he was last online in July of 2012 and that was his second to the last post (immediately above).
  
 Here is his last post - still lamenting the sound of the HD800, so I guess he wasn't very impressed with the V200:
  


trunk said:


> Just to add a few cents - I have the HD800 (haven't heard the others your mentioned but considering buying an LCD2 these days) and personally I don't like them -
> They do have a huge soundstage but that may not always be an advantage.
> The biggest problem I have with them is that they are very tilted towards the treble side and (for me) do not have enough "punchiness" to the bass. If that is important to you (you mentiond "punchy bass") I would seriously reconsider or at least try to audition them before buying.


 
  
 Oh well...  I'm thinking of selling my HD800 for the same reasons...  I've had a lot of fun with them, but I'm absolutely unwilling to go to tube gear and I just don't believe there are any solid state amps that will give me what I want.
  
 (Forever hooked on the sound of my LCD-2 rev.1...)
  
 Mike


----------



## complin

Which is what ?
  
 Quote:


zilch0md said:


> Oh well...  I'm thinking of selling my HD800 for the same reasons...  I've had a lot of fun with them, but I'm absolutely unwilling to go to tube gear an_*d I just don't believe there are any solid state amps that will give me what I want.*_
> 
> (Forever hooked on the sound of my LCD-2 rev.1...)
> 
> Mike


----------



## zilch0md

complin said:


> Which is what ?




The Audeze LCD-2 (revision 1) is a planar magnetic headphone:



Sony PCM-M10 > iBasso PB2 > Audeze LCD-2 rev.1

http://www.audeze.com/products/headphones/lcd-2


----------



## bigbeard

my dt990 premiums were quite harsh, until i paired them with an asgard 2 and bifrost uber. the bifrost may get rid of that harshness for you, as it worked for me. i live near nyc; if you are nearby you can come to try it out.


----------



## complin

Sorry but REALLY confused now
 I thought your comment was related to the Sennheiser HD800 and *that there is no solid state amplifier that will give you what you want*?
  
 The LDC2 are like chalk and cheese in comparison no matter what amplifier you use 
  
 Quote:


zilch0md said:


> The Audeze LCD-2 (revision 1) is a planar magnetic headphone:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## hennessys

I'm happy with the v200


----------



## zilch0md

Complin,
  
  



Spoiler: Who's on first?



Quote:


zilch0md said:


> [snip]
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Above, I wrote that I am "forever hooked on the sound of my LCD-2 rev.1..."
  
 Which (I had assumed) prompted you to ask this question, below:
  


complin said:


>





> Which is what?


 
  
 Thinking that you had no idea what an LCD-2 rev.1 is, I answered your question, as follows:
  


zilch0md said:


> The Audeze LCD-2 (revision 1) is a planar magnetic headphone:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 To which you have now responded with this:
  


> Sorry but REALLY confused now
> I thought your comment was related to the Sennheiser HD800 and *that there is no solid state amplifier that will give you what you want*?
> 
> The LDC2 are like chalk and cheese in comparison no matter what amplifier you use


 
  


  
  
 Now it's clear to me that when you asked, "Which is what?" - you were asking me what_ *I want in an amp*_, not for a definition of "*LCD-2 rev.1*."   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Which takes us back to the context of the post to which you first replied, where I wrote:  "*I'm thinking of selling my HD800 for the same reasons*" - with my reasons being the same as those expressed by trunk:  "*The biggest problem I have with them is that they are very tilted towards the treble side and (for me) do not have enough "punchiness" to the bass.*
  
 Thus, what *I want *is less treble energy and more punchiness in the bass (quoting "trunk.")
  
 See Skylab's remarkably well-written review of the HD800, for more on what's "wrong" with the HD800.
  
 Mike


----------



## funkymonkcp

I just received my HD800's on Saturday. I have been using my Nuforce Icon HDP that I had previously and was using with the HD650's. The HD800's are great but the treble is quite hot as is mentioned in the beginning of the thread. I am now in search for the right amp. Woo Audio amps seem to keep popping up. I have to admit that the driving force for buying the 800's was for PC gaming. Yeah I know how that sounds. I'm using a Soundblaster Zxr when in use on my PC. 

I suppose it will take a while for me to go through the many threads on this subject to find the right amp. Whatever amp I buy it will be for the music; my Soundblaster is for my games. Since 95% of everything I listen to is Red Hot Chili Peppers, it will be even tougher to find the right amp, at least that is what I assume. If anybody has some quick suggestions or could point me in the right direction, that would be great. I will keep reading through the forums but I try to not dig too deep in these forums because it makes my wallet hurt.


----------



## zilch0md

Hi funkymonkcp,
  
 Quote:


> Since 95% of everything I listen to is Red Hot Chili Peppers...


 
  
 Surely, you jest!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm very close to selling my HD800 because I'm convinced that I have to spend more money on a proper amp than I'm willing to spend and trying to do it cheaply would only lead me to spend even more money in the long run.
  
 I've been beating this particular dead horse for several months, but have concluded that you can save a little money by softening the treble (removing detail) and warming the mids and bass - at the DAC - with something like the MHDT Havana 2 tube DAC and a not necessarily powerful, but neutral and transparent solid state amp.  But that's a "solution" that masks the HD800's problems while also destroying one of its greatest strengths (resolution).
  
 The ideal solution is to begin with a DAC that doesn't color or mask anything - a DAC that would be found superlative with any amp or headphone - detailed, neutral, transparent, great separation, etc. - driving _an amp that "fixes" the HD800's bad traits without degrading any of its good traits. _ Consensus says these are almost always tube amps or hybrids and, apparently, they have to be somewhat expensive designs to maintain transparency and resolution. Cheap tube amps won't cut it.
  
 Without having heard it, going only on what I've read from others, perhaps the best amp under $2000 that manages to do this, of those currently available, is the Red Wine Audio Cassabria, selling for $1850 - as shipped. It replaced the discontinued RWA Corvina, which has a following with a handful of HD800 owners.
  
 http://redwineaudio.com/components/cassabria  
  
 For a little less money to start with, the Decware CSP3, at $1249 currently, apparently needs some tube upgrades to get there, and once you start rolling tubes, you might exceed the cost of the RWA Cassabria.
  
 http://www.decware.com/newsite/CSP3.html
  
 That's where I would go if I were willing to spend that kind of money on an amp to "fix" the HD800, but there are a lot of other opinions out there, of course.
  
 I'm haunted by having heard a very expensive HD800 rig at a local meet, over a year ago, that was assembled by Head-Fi member named jazzerdave.   For me, it remains to this day, the very best headphone experience I have ever heard.
  
 At the time, he was using Foobar2000 on a Win7 laptop, with a *Peachtree X1* USB-to-SPDIF converter feeding the Coaxial input of a *Peachtree iNova DAC* (with iPod dock and Class A hybrid tube amp that are both bypassed - the DAC is solid state), with Line Out to the *Cavalli **Liquid Glass*, and some balanced copper cables to an unmodified *HD800*.   
  




  




  
  




  
 I have no idea what tubes he uses, but I recall he had gone through several to find the tubes he liked best.  That amp has tube sockets that face forward as well as the two that face upward - for different pin patterns.  It's a tube roller's dream come true (or nightmare, depending on how obsessive you are, and how much money you have).
  
 I have absolutely no problem remembering what I heard as a hogged his system for about 10 minutes at that meet.  The difference between what I heard that day and what I hear on my "best" HD800 rig...
  
 FiiO X5 Line Out > HA-1 amp only > balanced HD800
  
 ... puts his rig in an entirely different league - on a different planet, really!    His HD800 no longer sounds like a dynamic headphone.  There is *none* of that "metallic" quality that all dynamic headphones seem to have.  Try as I might, there is always a bit of a "sheen" with every dynamic headphone I've ever owned. It's subtle, but always there, in the best rigs I've ever managed to assemble (not that I've been around the block, much, but I'm saying within my limited experience).  The most remarkable thing about listening to jazzerdave's rig is the blackness that surrounds even the faintest, shortest duration notes.  It's really stunning, I mean immediately jaw-dropping.  I could turn up the volume to the limits of comfort and still hear blackness around every note.  Everything was separated and distinct - ultra fast, ultra-controlled, yet with really natural attack and decay.  The overall sound was just* natural,* not reproduced.  Acoustic stuff made it an emotional experience, vocals were awesome, you name it - that rig is truly, genuinely, _awesome_.  
  
 Revisiting that day just stains my brain even further - forcing me to lament that I don't have any way to listen to music that way, currently.  It's enough to make me want to sell my HD800, because they deserve better, but I know they'll likely fall into the hands of another guy who is forever on the fence to spend the money they demand.  It's as if I've bought a new helicopter that I don't know how to fly, nor even have the money to fly, but I enjoy sitting in it, just the same, on the ground, with the engine started and the rotors spinning ...   
  
 I should either sell them or give them exactly what they want and stop messing around with trying to find "cheap" solutions.
  
 Mike


----------



## formula1

Mike,
 I recall you had a soloist and a centrance. Are you exploring the tube territory now?


----------



## zilch0md

formula1 said:


> Mike,
> I recall you had a soloist and a centrance. Are you exploring the tube territory now?




Teetering on the brink of doing so...


----------



## formula1

zilch0md said:


> Teetering on the brink of doing so...


 
  
 And i started this hobby with tubes, and now a solid state guy mainly. How crazy


----------



## Maxx134

Tips to achieve end game sound out of the h800..

1- Do the anax2.0 mod but leave out all creatology foam except for the ring around the driver...
This is because we want to keep the signature without loosing soundstage and just tame the ringing..

2-Use a true balanced amp with balanced XLR output of at least 2watts max...
The hd800 love voltage over current but need reserve power to give true bass weight...

3-Use newest cable designs that have the most surface to conductor ratio...
That means a litz type braided cable..
Stock cable is garbage and a contributor to problems as the hd800 is the most sensitive headphones to cable change that I ever tried.

There you have the "clues" to maximum performance..

Now all you need to do is find the match of components that gives you the right "flavor" you desire, which is another story altogether and will take you on a road of your choice of SS or tube route..


----------



## complin

Really!
 Not my experience at all
 Headphone foo is really over-rated IMO
  
 Quote:


maxx134 said:


> Tips to achieve end game sound out of the h800..
> 
> 1- Do the anax2.0 mod but leave out all creatology foam except for the ring around the driver...
> This is because we want to keep the signature without loosing soundstage and just tame the ringing..
> ...


----------



## xxxfbsxxx

i have been always a hd800 hater from the 1st day i bought it, upgraded to norne draug pure cable did not help, preferred the he500 on most gears
 untill i got the csp2+ then made a lot of tube experiment for the 800, got some good results with lorenz gz32 rectifier and genalex 6922 driver, but not totally satisfied since still got weird feeling everytime i put the 800 on my head, it like someone is trying to read a formal report to you =.=
  
 recently got the master9 and have to admit that this is the 1st time i can understand why ppl like this cans, for the 1st time it sings, or i could say i can see/feel the singer is singing in front of me and audience is warping around me , the M9 should be the same cost with csp3+the same tube upgrade, and it dust csp amp in every aspect


----------



## hennessys

Look guys, let’s admit
  
 If you  are expecting a perfect all-arouner, the HD800 won’t stand a chance with any amp you find.
  
I suggest to have one or two other cans beside it, if you get the chance. I was dissapointed at the first time too, but after a while i realized this Senn is simply not for all the music. I’m happy to have it on my head at any given time.


----------



## maro73

Hello
 I have the 13 pages in this thread and found the same things as in other :
 1. Loads of advice to offload the HD800 because of it's detailed and sometimes harsh presentation
 2. Moving to valve / tube amps seems to be advisable to tame the beast
 3.The Bryston BHA 1 has 50 % haters and 50 % overwhelmed , but is it the 50 % haters who don't accept the signature  or ?
  
 Few people really stayed with one amp .. with the HD800 (but upgrading is our hobby)
 That said , I'm confused still , and have decided to keep my HD800
 Amps choice is for solid state : in the run are : bryston BHA1 , violectric V220 , V281 .. and Schitt Mojnir
 ..
 Waiting and reading other threads
 Cheers


----------



## nigeljames

The HD800's do not intrinsically have a harsh treble. But they can show what else in your chain does.
  
 Tube amps can improve that situation by giving less, or less emphasis, on the treble than many SS amps do.
  
 Any high quality SS amp which is not itself bright and has smooth hf's would do well.
  
 The new Schitt Ragnorak ( so it seems but have not heard it) and Audio-gd amps do an excellent job with the HD800's if you decide to go the SS route.


----------



## ubs28

Guess the Chord Hugo is better than I thought when I read all these posts here. The HD800 sounds very smooth over here and is an excellent all-rounder.


----------



## b0ssMax

ive tried to like the hd800 for 1.5y but havent been ableto until last week.

There was a local hifi show that my hp dealer attended with the set-up: chord dac via digital connection-> hdvd800 xlr bal put-> alo cables xlr out -> hd800. I use dmy ak240 optical out as source to the dac.

I found the hd800 enjoyable. Details, soundstage, coherence. I didnt have exclusive use but easily spent at least 30 mins dedicated use.

I'm not sure if its the dac or the amp but i can say this set-up made me change my mind about the hd800s. I didn't have my he500 to compare but i think i found why people like the hd800. It just took me a while to find a good set-up. Whether i'll buy it is another matter.


----------



## buson160man

I am not familiar with the hd800 but I did hear it briefly at a local high end show a couple of years ago. I thought the balance of sound somewhat similar to my akg 701s. I have had my 701s for a long time and I have found them to be picky of headphone amps that drive them as well . I have recently within the last maybe 5 or 6 months discovered after reading about them for a bit that vintage receivers can make excellent headphone amps. I bought a recapped late 1970s vintage monster receiver and after it broke in it has turned out to be one fine sounding headphone. In fact it sounds a lot better than most every headphone amp I have listened to. Some of them top drawer units like the cavallis among others. The power delivered by monster vintage receiver just about blows away most if not all the dedicated headphone amps that I have listened to. The receiver just plays with an authority and grip like no headphone amp that I have heard . The clarity is also exceptional as well . There is also a sense of space as well .
    You might want to check out one of the monster vintage (recapped , cleaned and restored of course) receivers. I think you would be a little more than surprised  at their ability to wrest the best from even hard to drive headphones. At least that is what I have found ,


----------



## zilch0md

After 10 months of trying to find a solid state solution that was "clean enough" for the very revealing HD800, I'm now very satisfied (one month and counting) with the following chain:
 
 
*     FiiO X5 coaxial out > Metrum Octave MkII** > NuForce HA-200* *> modded HD800*
 
 
The $350 FiiO X5 is just a convenient transport with coaxial out and is essentially not in the equation in regards to satisfying the HD800's analog signal requirements, but I find the X5 to be much less cumbersome when listening to music in my recliner, than fumbling with a laptop in my lap for USB output.
 
The $999 Octave MkII brought about the greatest improvement for the HD800, relative to the various oversampling, ESS9023 and ESS9018 implementations I currently own or have heard with the HD800. 
 
The $350 Nuforce HA-200's low-feedback, single-ended Class A design was the next most critical actor, doing a much better job than the multi-stage, high-feedback OPPO HA-1's amp section at eliminating the last bit of brittle edginess that causes fatigue with the HD800, while not affecting resolution in the least.  I'm convinced that it's the zero-feedback design of Audio-gd's Master 9 that makes it so popular with HD800 owners and remains on my horizon as a possible improvement to the HA-200 - but I question the need to even experiment with that purchase, because I'm really very satisfied with the HA-200.
 
Lastly, my HD800 mod is subtle, bringing down that 6kHz crispness a bit, without hurting sound stage or imaging, just by covering the flat metal ring that surrounds the driver, with a thin layer of self-adhesive felt.
 

 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread/14535#post_10957399
 
In the end, this mod requires less effort than the Anax 2.0 mod, with much less impact on the desirable traits that the HD800 brings to the table.
 






Inside a side table, next to the recliner, wooden spools - improving air flow - are BluTack'd to the feet of the components above, with self-adhesive felt on the bottom of each spool.

Mike


----------



## Golliwog

Tried the HD800s through a WA22 with balanced Cardas cables today. For someone coming from laptop-fi it was a transcendental experience.


----------



## remilio

Sennheser's own HDVA600 and HDVD800 do very good job amping HD800s. Loving mine! *BUT *these amps need balanced connection!


----------



## Golliwog

remilio said:


> Sennheser's own HDVA600 and HDVD800 do very good job amping HD800s. Loving mine! *BUT *these amps need balanced connection!


 

 I tried this combo and didn't like it but everything is so opinion driven in the audio world. I also didn't like the GSX so i guess tubes are for me.


----------



## soundsbetter

remilio said:


> Sennheser's own HDVA600 and HDVD800 do very good job amping HD800s. Loving mine! *BUT *these amps need balanced connection!


 
 Yes, agree.
  
 I am in the market for 'better' headphones and Dac/Amp. I liked the sound of the HD800 when playing Oscar Peterson through the HDVD800, but found it to be 'shrill' [not sure if that is the appropriate technical term, but that's my word!] when playing rock. The team then replaced the headphone cable with the 'Ch 800 S' and the quality improved noticeably. The fun was back with rock.
  
 I do, though, feel a little reticent to buy such an expensive amp with the headphones and then also need to pay out for an expensive replacement cable. Especially as that cable will only work with those Sennheiser amps.
  
 I have also recently heard the Oppo HA-1 and liked its sound. I haven't heard the HD800 through them - yet.


----------



## Golliwog

soundsbetter said:


> Yes, agree.
> 
> I am in the market for 'better' headphones and Dac/Amp. I liked the sound of the HD800 when playing Oscar Peterson through the HDVD800, but found it to be 'shrill' [not sure if that is the appropriate technical term, but that's my word!] when playing rock. The team then replaced the headphone cable with the 'Ch 800 S' and the quality improved noticeably. The fun was back with rock.
> 
> ...


 

 I feel the same about buying an expensive amp just for one headphone. Especially one released 5 years ago. Might wait to see what CES holds.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

soundsbetter said:


> Yes, agree.
> 
> I am in the market for 'better' headphones and Dac/Amp. I liked the sound of the HD800 when playing Oscar Peterson through the HDVD800, but found it to be 'shrill' [not sure if that is the appropriate technical term, but that's my word!] when playing rock. The team then replaced the headphone cable with the 'Ch 800 S' and the quality improved noticeably. The fun was back with rock.
> 
> ...


 

 I'm in the same boat. I'm using the WA7 and generally like it, but got bit by the buzzing (cell phone?) again, which I thought went away. Then, I listen and it sounds good. Hmm.
  
 Anyhow, I've been considering and re-considering the HDVD800 but then read comments like yours and reconsider. Also considering the HDVA600 or my WA7 with a different DAC, but it's so hard without being able to go to an audio store to try them.


----------



## Bob383rad

Try looking at the Chord Hugo. It's expensive, but has taken the market by storm outclassing DAC's that are 3 times as expensive.


----------



## Bob383rad

Try Apple's lossless ALAC files.


----------



## meeah

Hi guys
  
 I'm not exactly disappointed, but I am thinking about upgrading from my Asus Xonar STX. It feels that my HD800s have a lot more to offer.
  
 I like the clearness of the sound but I think it lacks some of the warmth. I absolutely do not want to go overboard in that regard, but I wouldn't mind if the sound was a tad warmer.
  
 From what I've read here the HDVD800 isn't a choice and I might be better of with Cambridge Audio Dacmagic Plus? I'm afraid I don't know anything about tube amps or how to approach these.


----------



## ubs28

meeah said:


> Hi guys
> 
> I'm not exactly disappointed, but I am thinking about upgrading from my Asus Xonar STX. It feels that my HD800s have a lot more to offer.
> 
> ...


 

 If you want more warmth, just EQ the HD800 for extra warmth.


----------



## soundsbetter

ubs28 said:


> If you want more warmth, just EQ the HD800 for extra warmth.


 
  
 That is an option for PCM content but not for DSD. Lack of DSD support is another reason I have excluded the HDVD800 from my considerations.
  
 The HDVA600 is a good amp, but would need a separate DAC (for those of us with music in digital form).
  
 Many of the newer DACs that support DSD also appear to be headphone amps, and so that raises a question as to whether a separate amp (like the HDVA600) is merited.
  
 I would be keen to hear and compare the HD800 with a) The Oppo HA-1, b) The Chord Hugo and, c) The Marantz HD-DAC1


----------



## kapanak

I would say anybody disappointed with their HD800, should try it with the Schiit Valhalla 2 fed by a decent DAC. The Valhalla 2 is an OTL amp as far as I know, and it sounds like a severely refined version of a Bottlehead Crack, and I'd go as far as to say it sounds like an Eddie Current Zana Deux OTL amp, though not as refined, but pretty darn close.


----------



## freddr

What will work best with HD800, Modi/Magni 2 UBER, Matrix M-stage Hpa-2 or Gustard H10?


----------



## freedom01

Current user of bifrost uber/usb + valhalla2 + hd800
  
 enjoying every minute and second with it.
  
 get this combo and save the rest of the money.


----------



## kapanak

freedom01 said:


> Current user of bifrost uber/usb + valhalla2 + hd800
> 
> enjoying every minute and second with it.
> 
> get this combo and save the rest of the money.




Just about all quality DAC would do IMO. The enjoyment comes from the recordings and the Valhalla 2 magic lol


----------



## SuperU

I haven't read all the way through the thread, but do you think you are disappointed with the pairing, or the headphone or the amp?
  
 Do you like the headphones?


----------



## Philipondio

Hi all! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I am currently thinking about buying the *HD800s*, so I have been listening to them for the past two days in a local shop.
 The source were CDs from a *Denon DCD-520AE* through a *Burson Conductor*.
  
 The recording that "shocked" me the most was _"I Can't Quit You Baby"_ by Led Zeppelin on "Led Zeppelin". The moment at the beginning, when the song kicks in, I was stunned by the sound of the bass. I have never heard anything in such clarity and "realness" on a headphone.
  
 Today I brought with me my *RME Babyface*, and played FLAC files (from that same CD source) through it, just to compare the setup.
 Well, it was ridiculously different (worse). I have already expected less quality, but I was surprised as to how bad it actually sounded.
  
 Now I am a little confused as to what the problem might be, and how I could relatively inexpensively still get that sound that put that fat grin on my face.
 The Babyface is said to be a very good (and very neutral) DAC, so that is probably not it? Shouldn't the Babyface have a better DAC than the Denon CD player? Is it the integrated headphones amp then? Would it make sense to keep the Babyface solely as a DAC and use a Violectric V100 or a small Burson? Do you think I might get that unbelievable sound with that configuration?
  
 The babyface has an amplifier with an output impedance of about 30 ohms, which is probably not enough for the HD800s, as I've read. And it's true: I have to crank up the volume on the Babyface pretty high up in order to get a good volume. But the volume is there and it was not clipped.
 Maybe this is the problem and it would be a huge leap forward with a 50$ amp that would just be enough for the HD800s?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Philipondio

Ok, so I finally figured it out.
 The internal Headphone amp of the RME Babyface is just not good enough.
  
 I now use a Lake People G-103P, which sounds amazing.
  
 Chain is this:
  
 Source file -> DAC (Rme Babyface - not via headphone out, but via the line outs) -> Lake People G-103P.
  
 There is siginificant improvement in detail and imaging, love it


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Anybody have any experience with the Berning Micro ZOTL? Have read great reviews with the HEK, curious about adding it to my lineup.


----------



## HiAudio

I had the HD650 and NuForce Icon HDP as a few members had. I got HD800 and paired it with NuForce HDP. Not much better than HD650.
  
 So I got HDVA 600 and use the NuForce as DAC. HD800 sounds better but I still believe I haven't brought out the best of HD800. I know I need a better or a different DAC for HDVA 600 and HD800. Still looking. I had my eyes on the Audio-GD's DAC 19 but it does not have balanced output. I am also interested in Gungnir Multibit but someone reviewed that Gungnir Multibit does not pair well with HD800.
  
 For those who power HD800 with HDVA 600 what's your experience in trying and experiencing DAC? How did you settle on the DAC.


----------



## remilio

hiaudio said:


> I had the HD650 and NuForce Icon HDP as a few members had. I got HD800 and paired it with NuForce HDP. Not much better than HD650.
> 
> So I got HDVA 600 and use the NuForce as DAC. HD800 sounds better but I still believe I haven't brought out the best of HD800. I know I need a better or a different DAC for HDVA 600 and HD800. Still looking. I had my eyes on the Audio-GD's DAC 19 but it does not have balanced output. I am also interested in Gungnir Multibit but someone reviewed that Gungnir Multibit does not pair well with HD800.
> 
> For those who power HD800 with HDVA 600 what's your experience in trying and experiencing DAC? How did you settle on the DAC.


 

 You may want to try 4-pin cable for HD800, HDVA 600 plays better through balanced output. As for the DAC, better find an opportunity to listen some options yourself, because... well, tastes differ.


----------



## coinmaster

Never use solid state with an HD800, it's like throwing salt ontop of salt.
  
 Also experience has taught me that balanced is the way to go, varying on which amp you use.
 On some amps it sounds 100% different (better) while balanced.
  
 Tubes bring life to the HD800. But, keep in mind, most people that own or will own the HD800 will never find a good "match" for it.
 The HD800 is *extremely* picky to what is driving it. 
 I've tried so many "flagship" commercial amplifiers and while they sounded good, they still didn't leave me impressed with the HD800.
  
 However, after modding my Little dot MKVI+ the HD800s turned into the best sounding headphones I've ever heard in my life.
 The little dot MKVI+ at $800 is considered to be on par with the WA22 in sound quality. No really, google it, there's plenty of direct comparisons.
  
 However, once properly modded (not hard) the sound rises into an entirely different catagory above that. Shaming even amps in the $10k+ range that I've had the opportunity to hear.
 The sterile, soulless HD800s are gone, replaced by euphony and realism that I didn't know can exist with reproduced sound.
 It actually sounds like I'm at the concert in real life.
 Oh and did I mention bass? Yeah there's lots of bass on the HD800s now. Powerful, booming bass. Yes I am still talking about the same headphone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Mods to the MKVI+ are listed in these threads
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/782183/little-dot-mk8se-mk6-super-mods - basic mods 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/786458/little-dot-mk6-zombie-resurrection-ultra-mods -advanced mods
  
 I'm working on a guide to build a complete modded MK6 and still spend less than retail for it.
 Both the stock MK6 and the stock WA22 can be built for a few hundred bucks assuming you know how.
  
 I spent the last 2 months tearing my MK6 apart to map out a schematic and learn from it. I don't know if anyone has had the guts to tear apart their WA22 yet seeing as it costs $2000 minimum. The WA22 is comprised of very little parts though and is a very simple amp in comparison to the MK6 which was a nightmare to decipher.


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## remilio

coinmaster said:


> Never use solid state with an HD800, it's like throwing salt ontop of salt.


 
  
 It'a a myth. There's nothing wrong wish SS amp with HD800 if you have a really euphonic and musical DAC of high level. But many head-fi'ers have a bad habit to build a system with high-end headphones, good amp and mediocre DACs. Weak source - unsatisfying outcome.


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## coinmaster

Myth perhaps, I don't claim to have tried everything. But I have tried many expensive and/or highly regarded SS amps that simply don't compare to the tube amps I have heard.
  
 And yeah, you're right.
 Most people think the headphone is the most important component when it's not.
 Sure, headphones will have the most sonic differences between them but what do you think is feeding the sound coming out of them?
  
 I turned my HD800 which I have been unhappy with for years into an entirely different beast all together. I kid you not when I say the difference between the HD800 before and the HD800 in my current set-up is greater than the difference between any headphone I've ever heard, and I've heard pretty much all of the flagships other than stax. It's not even the same headphone anymore. Simply by finding the right amp for it. Which for the HD800 is kinda of ridiculously hard to do, it's like a lottery.
 Even when you "think" you've reached the top of what it can handle, it's really not even close.
  
 Which is why I was throwing some advice based on my experiences in my previous post, hopefully saving some people the money and trouble.


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## remilio

Well, DIY tube amp is the way to go, but only for those who actually can DIY


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## coinmaster

> Well, DIY tube amp is the way to go, but only for those who actually can DIY


 
 This x1000
  
 One thing I've learned through all this is that all the "big name" amps really aren't all that great. 
 I can literally build an amp that will sound better than a $15,000 commercial amp for less than a thousand bucks.
  
 Those links I provided have clear beginners instructions on how to mod the stock amps of the MK6/MK8 to sound like this.
 DIY isn't hard to do, as long as you know what to do. Hopefully we have taken that last part out of the equation.


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## moriez

coinmaster said:


> I kid you not when I say the difference between the HD800 before and the HD800 in my current set-up is greater than the difference between any headphone I've ever heard, and I've heard pretty much all of the flagships other than stax.


 
  





 
  
 I'm either not getting what you're saying or you _are_ kidding.
  
 What I think I'm reading is that the difference between for example any Grado and for example any Denon Dx000 is not greater than your HD800 before and current.
  
 Correct?


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## coinmaster

For example let's say you throw on a pair of TH900s. Closed headphones with lots of bass with v-shaped "fun" sound. Very euphonic in my experience depending on if you can handle the v-shaped sound.
 Then let's say you throw on the HD800s. Open headphones with high resolution and soundstage. Pretty flat frequency response compared to the TH900 or any other headphone really. However the sound is also eternally sterile and soulless and have very little bass to speak of.
  
 The two headphones are about as different as it gets.
  
 This is the kind of difference I'm talking about.
  
  
 However keep in mind, achieving this level of difference might be exclusive to the HD800.
 The strengths of the HD800s are also it's weaknesses.
 It's seemingly flat frequency response and amazing sound reproduction capabilities leave it without it's own personality.
 It's sort of like a blank slate.
 It basically sounds like what you feed it, more or less. Which is why using solid state amps with the HD800s is generaly a bad idea as they are all pretty linear.
 However I've taken it beyond my previous experiences with the normal "differences"  in sound between amps with my current set-up.
  
  
 I most certainly need to get myself a pair of TH900s again. I didn't like their v-shaped sound but they just oozed euphony to me, it was like being high. The LCD-XC did that too. It must have something to do with the wood cups.
 If my current amp can give my HD800s euphony I can only imagine what it would do to the TH900.
  
 And that's another thing. In my previous experiences euphony and realism have been sort of polar opposites, I didn't think you could have both in any sort of extreme. But now they are somehow mixed, I literally freak out sometimes because I think someone or something is in the room with me when it's really just the music. 
  
 All of this is done with an Audio-GD NFB-1 $600 dac. I admit this dac is probably a pretty big bang for buck considering it's a chi-fi dac (hint: Chinese stuff is cheaper) from a reputable brand but if the differences in dacs are really as big as people say I may be in for yet another surprise by getting a yggy or something.


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## zilch0md

coinmaster said:


> Never use solid state with an HD800, it's like throwing salt ontop of salt.


 
  
 Unless you're using a SS NOS DAC and a SS amp that uses only transformers for gain.


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## bigbeard

What do you guys think of an HD800 paired with a bifrost uber and asgard 2? Am I doing the headphones injustice? I think the sound is amazing, but, it can get noticeably better?


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## coinmaster

> but, it can get noticeably better?


 
 Lots.


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## kapanak

bigbeard said:


> What do you guys think of an HD800 paired with a bifrost uber and asgard 2? Am I doing the headphones injustice? I think the sound is amazing, but, it can get noticeably better?




Even with multi thousand dollar setups, HD800 owners have yet to hit a wall for now well these headphones scale. Here's how you can get more out of your headphones:

First chance you have financially and time wise, send your Bifrost to have it updated to multibit and USB if not already. 

Asgard 2 is powerful and great, but for high impedance Sennheiser headphones, the Valhalla 2 is a better pairing. 

Take it from there


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## coinmaster

Read my previous posts on this page if you haven't already.


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## bigbeard

kapanak said:


> Even with multi thousand dollar setups, HD800 owners have yet to hit a wall for now well these headphones scale. Here's how you can get more out of your headphones:
> 
> First chance you have financially and time wise, send your Bifrost to have it updated to multibit and USB if not already.
> 
> ...


 

 I was actually thinking to upgrade to the multibit since I already have the uber. In that case as well, I have heard mixed opinions on multibit, as well as hearing nothing on how it pairs with an HD800.


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## bigbeard

coinmaster said:


> Read my previous posts on this page if you haven't already.


 

 I have read your posts, which is why my interest was peaked. I wish I did have the time for a DIY amp project, but spare time is hard to make as I juggle family and scientific research. I would also love to listen to the potential difference before I even take on a project. Do you know anyone willing to loan out (we can work on creating some type of escrow account, with payment for the rental period) a customized amp? Sometimes us audiophiles let our imaginations get the best of us.


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## coinmaster

At some point in your life you have to try it.
 If you live close to CT I'd let you come over and try it.
 Also the regional headfi meet in stanford CT is in 8 days.
  
 Many people that do DIY do it a little bit at a time. It doesn't have to be all at once.
  
 Like I said earlier I'm working on a easy to follow step-by-step guide to build the amp I currently have from scratch.
 It's really quite simple to do.
 It will be a few weeks before I'm done maximizing the potential of my amp, then I need to scrounge up some cash to buy some terminal boards and fresh components for the guide.
 I'd say realistically it will be the beginning of next year by the time it's ready.


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## Wildcatsare1

bigbeard said:


> I was actually thinking to upgrade to the multibit since I already have the uber. In that case as well, I have heard mixed opinions on multibit, as well as hearing nothing on how it pairs with an HD800.




I had the Bifrost Uber Miltibit with my HD800 and Taurus Mk.2 amp, really enjoyed the combination. Added depth, better imiging and dynamic to my unmixed Bifrost. The advise on the Valhalla 2 is solid.


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## kapanak

Exactly. You can't go wrong with the Bifrost Multibit and Valhalla 2. Budget price for each component for top performance. Won't even need a cable change or dampening mod. Then again, you might decide to mod it to taste later.

For a portable or transportable setup, I recommend GO V2 Infinity or Concero HP.


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## gus6464

At canjam the Athena A1 was paired with the hd800 and it was amazing. My favorite setup of the whole show.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## BuZzzzz

Hello everyone,
  
 I currently have a AKG K701 and I plan to buy a HD800 soon, however I'm not sure my settup is good enouth to enjoy the qualities of the HD800. I have a cambridge dacmagic + heed canamp settup.
  
 How will HD800 perform with these ? Is it wise to buy the HD800 with this settup ? Knowing that I won't be able to afford a 1000$+ dac/amp to pair with the HD800 for a while.. I tried the HD700 but I'd like to get the best headphones I can first, then upgrade the other stuff over time.
  
 Thank you.


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## Thenewguy007

buzzzzz said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I currently have a AKG K701 and I plan to buy a HD800 soon, however I'm not sure my settup is good enouth to enjoy the qualities of the HD800. I have a cambridge dacmagic + heed canamp settup.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I hear the HD800 sounds 95% identical to the AKG 7xx series with low-fi amps.
 I doubt you'll get a big improvement.
 You pretty much need a $1,000+ amp to get anywhere with the HD800. Otherwise it doesn't sound a leap better than headphones you can get for $200 or $300.


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## kapanak

thenewguy007 said:


> I hear the HD800 sounds 95% identical to the AKG 7xx series with low-fi amps.
> I doubt you'll get a big improvement.
> You pretty much need a $1,000+ amp to get anywhere with the HD800. Otherwise it doesn't sound a leap better than headphones you can get for $200 or $300.


 

This is absolutely false.

No matter the source, let it be a HTC One M8, 3.5mm out of Surface Pro 3, or a great matching Valhalla2 or Bottlehead Crack, HD800 maintains all its characteristics, such as tight, extended bass (but low quantity/no bloat), detailed, accurate mids (albeit a bit dry) and simply unrivalled treble clarity and micro details (though a spike at 6KHz makes it unpleasant to listen to for a very long period of time in stock form). 

It will always sound like an HD800, and definitely better than anything from the K7XX series. There is undeniable similarities between the sound signature of the HD800 and the K7XX series of headphones, but the different is noticeable at first listen. HD800 is noticeably the superior product. 

You do not need $1000+ amps to make HD800 sound good. A Bottlehead Crack, Valhalla 2, or Torpedo amp will do just fine. It does need an amp that can deliver good power at 300-600 ohms (HD800 has a large impedance swing) and good voltage, but it does not need a very expensive amp. 

Also another factor to keep in mind is product variation. I've owned 3 HD800 in the last five years and they all sounded exactly the same. The driver matching at Sennheiser Germany factory is scary good. No other brand or headphones will get you that.


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## BuZzzzz

Thank you both for your replies.
  


kapanak said:


> This is absolutely false.
> 
> No matter the source, let it be a HTC One M8, 3.5mm out of Surface Pro 3, or a great matching Valhalla2 or Bottlehead Crack, HD800 maintains all its characteristics, such as tight, extended bass (but low quantity/no bloat), detailed, accurate mids (albeit a bit dry) and simply unrivalled treble clarity and micro details (though a spike at 6KHz makes it unpleasant to listen to for a very long period of time in stock form).
> 
> ...


 
 That's very sweet to hear. I knew the sound signatures of K701/HD800 had a lot in common but I was worried my settup wouldn't be good enouth to make a notable difference. On another forum I've been told the cambridge audio dacmagic is okay for the HD800 but the canamp isn't the best fit at that price range. Overall I see a lot of people praising the valhalla 2 just like you, it is cheap enouth for my wallet and it sounds like the way to go for me next.


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## Jerk off King

RP030 should be considered.


----------



## Arniesb

kapanak said:


> This is absolutely false.
> 
> No matter the source, let it be a HTC One M8, 3.5mm out of Surface Pro 3, or a great matching Valhalla2 or Bottlehead Crack, HD800 maintains all its characteristics, such as tight, extended bass (but low quantity/no bloat), detailed, accurate mids (albeit a bit dry) and simply unrivalled treble clarity and micro details (though a spike at 6KHz makes it unpleasant to listen to for a very long period of time in stock form).
> 
> ...


 I wondering how Hd800 Can sound With Beyerdynamic A20 Amp... I read one review and writer said that it sound Great with T1 and HD800. Somebody heard that pairing?


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## nicholars

The NAD D1050 is good for smoothing out harsh treble, maybe try that, I am happy with mine. Maybe combine with a tube amp like the Schiit Lyr.
  
 NAD D1050 + Schiit lyr + smooth tubes = very smooth amp / dac combo.


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## lexipenia

I use the HDVA 600 (I didn't want the internal DAC, which I heard wasn't very good). It's great. No treble peak on the HD800, pristine sound.


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## twiceboss

Who's pairing this with iDSD BL?


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