# Which is more important: preamp or power amp?



## XXII

Which is more important: preamp or power amp?
 i.e. if I had a budget of $1000 (for example) how would I split it between pre-amp and power amp?

 I'm sure this question has been asked many times but searching doesn't seem to get me any definitive answers


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## tom hankins

Your not going to get any definitive answers. Everybody has had different experiences. I have found if you match your amp to your speakers and treat them pretty much as partners, then go from there and add a preamp whos output is good with them amp, you will do pretty good. As far as effecting the overall sound I find the preamp can make the most difference. So I would work backwards from the speakers. Pick your speakers and an amp that have had good results (history) together and then start looking for a preamp.


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## iriverdude

Quote:


 I find the preamp can make the most difference. 
 

I'd agree with that also. I had two pre-power setup's, in slightly different price bands. Most noticeable improvement using the higher quality pre, lower quality power, rather than lower quality pre, higher quality power where I picked out the definiencies of the lower pre.


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## SleepyOne

Hard to say, depending on equiments, what speakers you are using and your room size. You can get low cost high preformance pre-amp that do just fine with higher cost power amp. And it also depending on whether you go for mono blocks (or large amp), in which case the power amps is more likely to cost more than the pre-amp.


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## NightOwl

All the previous posters make good points. I've had many pre and power combinations in all but the most expensive price ranges over the last 35 years. Component matching is very important.
 That being said, I've also found the preamp to make the most dramatic difference between the two. In addition, whatever is lost at the preamp stage can't be made up by the amp. While the contribution of the amp is just as important, the differences between amps, to my ears, are more subtle.


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## Lazarus Short

After going through a lot of power amps, transistor, tube, single-ended, push-pull, class A, class B, I never entered the High End until I bought a really good preamp, first a Music Reference, and currently a Meridian 201. The power amp mated to it, and I try think of the power amp as merely the interface between the preamp and the speaker, is a Dyna 35 [my second], but there are others I would be happy with.

 Here's a crazy idea: take your posited $1000, buy a $950 preamp, and buy used to make the dollars go further, and spend the remainder on a T-amp.

 Laz


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## pcf

The answer could be power amp for me(espeacially in this digital age) . Most people don't have any analog source and input switching is not too important anymore. I had a DAC going straight to power amps in a few different systems with no pre amp and got good results. Also, power amps (along with speakers) are affected by technology changes much less than pre amps. 
 In the past, I would spend a lot more to get the power amps I wanted and paired that with a lower grade pre amp. When I was ready to upgrade I just sold the pre amp and went up to the better one.


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## glitch39

G I G O.

 Go with a good source and let if feed a great signal to your power amp.


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## iriverdude

Quote:


 DAC going straight to power amps in a few different systems with no pre amp and got good results 
 

Bang?


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## mulveling

I say power-amp. A speaker is a far more complex load to drive than a fixed resistance (which is what a preamp drives). Power output could be a big concern with power amps depending on your speakers and environment. Power output is never a concern with preamps, though gain might be. 

 The poweramp is typically going to be a bigger safety concern for your speakers than the preamp. I like transformer-coupled tube amps for this reason (no DC offset, usually softer clipping), though good iron can be expensive - another reason to put more into the power amp IMO. Pairing up a SS pre with tube power, I feel better about the risks involved to my not-inexpensive speakers.

 Sure, there can be sonic differences between preamps, but I've heard relatively low-cost solid state preamps that are so neutral and non-damaging to the sound, that for my needs I came to the conclusion: why bother with more?

 Current main setup here has 68% of total cost sunk in the speakers, 9% in power amp (though I do have a couple of nice additional amps), 22% in turntable & cart, and 1.5% in the preamp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'd say that breakdown matches up quite nicely with the difficulty I experienced finding components of each type that satisfied my sonic preferences. The speakers should be a HUGE concern. The next thing I'd consider investing more in is the cartridge.


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## Fryguy8

I'm a huge proponent of:

 1. Buy the biggest amp you can afford (biggest, not necessarily best). For example, Behringer a500 is quite a bit of power for most purposes, and is < $300
 2. Get a source/preamp that allows you to use balanced interconnects.

 My reasoning:

 -All amps, when run within operating limits (well before clipping, etc), are going to sound pretty much the same.
 -Using balanced interconnects lets you buy cheaper cables and still get quality ($10-20 per interconnect is going to get you 90%+ of the way there in terms of performance).
 -The preamp/sources are going to make the most difference, and TYPICALLY a preamp that has balanced connections is going to be higher end than one without, so you get "free quality" by taking this route.

 More specifically, with $1000, I'd get a Behringer a500, $600-$650 on a preamp (assuming you already have a source here), and leave the rest for cables/taxes/shipping (remember, by going balanced you can use cheaper cables).

 This is my experience, yours may differ. This is the philosophy I take towards system development. Your philosophy might be different. If anybody has serious problems with mine, I'd be curious to see how they critique it (and if possible provide evidence to support that it's wrong).


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## Lazarus Short

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pcf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had a DAC going straight to power amps in a few different systems with no pre amp and got good results._

 

I've done that too - the best preamp is none at all or a passive pre. On the other hand, I still run a turntable and a tapedeck, so I need a pre.

 Laz


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## pcf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lazarus Short* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've done that too - the best preamp is none at all or a passive pre. On the other hand, I still run a turntable and a tapedeck, so I need a pre.

 Laz_

 

We have the same problems mate!


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## XXII

Thanks for the answers. As you can expect I'm more confused than ever 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The good news is that I already have a GS-X which should be a pretty decent preamp so it's just a matter of finding speakers and a poweramp.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iriverdude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Bang?_

 

e.g. Endler Audio: Stepped Attenuators, Behringer 2496 Mods, Speaker Cables and Interconnects, Speakers


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## tom hankins

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lazarus Short* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've done that too - the best preamp is none at all or a passive pre. On the other hand, I still run a turntable and a tapedeck, so I need a pre.

 Laz_

 


 I have not had any luck running strait from DAC, CDP, or with the Placette Passive, or Creek passive. i have found the sound to flat as compared to an active preamp on every occasion.


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## SleepyOne

Excellent news XXII ! Now to the fun part which speaker and amp!


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## mulveling

Congrats, the GS-X an EXCELLENT piece of gear. I use the earlier Headamp Gilmores myself, for both preamp and headphone amp duty: a V2 and a Reference. In my experience, you can surround them with some EXTREMELY high end gear and still not be left wanting at all for additional quality for that stage of the audio chain. 

 The one caveat is that I strongly prefer a good, smooth potentiometer volume control (for fine control) for use in speaker setups over the stepped attenuator. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *XXII* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the answers. As you can expect I'm more confused than ever 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The good news is that I already have a GS-X which should be a pretty decent preamp so it's just a matter of finding speakers and a poweramp.



 e.g. Endler Audio: Stepped Attenuators, Behringer 2496 Mods, Speaker Cables and Interconnects, Speakers_


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## tom hankins

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mulveling* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats, the GS-X an EXCELLENT piece of gear. I use the earlier Headamp Gilmores myself, for both preamp and headphone amp duty: a V2 and a Reference. In my experience, you can surround them with some EXTREMELY high end gear and still not be left wanting at all for additional quality for that stage of the audio chain. 

 The one caveat is that I strongly prefer a good, smooth potentiometer volume control (for fine control) for use in speaker setups over the stepped attenuator._

 

Way off topic.
 Mike did you get the Tannoy emails? Hows the new rig going?


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## techenvy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mulveling* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats, the GS-X an EXCELLENT piece of gear. I use the earlier Headamp Gilmores myself, for both preamp and headphone amp duty: a V2 and a Reference. In my experience, you can surround them with some EXTREMELY high end gear and still not be left wanting at all for additional quality for that stage of the audio chain. 

 The one caveat is that I strongly prefer a good, smooth potentiometer volume control (for fine control) for use in speaker setups over the stepped attenuator._

 

bump
 whats a a good phono preamp under 250?
 i was looking at firestone and some others under 200, will i hear a diff?


 thanks


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## jax

Synergy throughout the chain of your system is absolutely critical. Nothing is unimportant. My experience with passive preamps is different from Lazarus. My sense is that, though they can yield a squeeky clean portal, as if one were to open a window pane and suddenly see without glass in between the view to the outside, they also have a tendency to strip the music a little too close to the bone for me. I prefer more meat on the bones of my music and using an active preamp has always been the best way for me to go in various systems. I am not speaking of coloration, but rather a certain richness of tone. It is difficult to describe without comparing directly for yourself. I've experience some similar impressions of Class D amps - though they're really easy to like on first impression, and I'd say I could happily live with one, when you hear them compared directly with a well-implemented Class A or A/B amp you get a sense of greater 'fullness' to the music. Sorry for the lack of vocabulary to describe this stuff. Not to say passives don't sound great...I'd personally choose an active, and I would personally choose to use one rather than any sort of variable gain digital source straight to an amp.


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## Drag0n

It all depends on which componant you want responsible for your system sounding like crap. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If your preamp stinks....then you will amplify rubbish with your amp and have even more rubbish.

 All componants should match.

Vincent - SA-31 Hybrid Stereo Pre-Amplifier

 Buy that preamp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 $500

 If you can afford the 331 amp, get that too! $1100
http://www.vincent-tac.de/en/product...er/sp-331.html


 Prices approximate USD. 

 Some of the best new values in audio. Both come in silver or black. Both are tube/SS hybrid.


 You can buy them at Audio Advisor - http://www.audioadvisor.com/products.asp?dept=220


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## minimus

If you already have a preamp and your budget is limited, I would look to buy an older B&K (the 4420, for example). Those amps go for around $400-600 used and sound really wonderful. Great bass response, frequency extension, and soundstage. You have to spend a lot more to find anything better. This is not a secret, either, as B&K 4420s that come up for sale on Audiogon sell quickly. A friend who owns a VAC 110 watt tube power amp, which sells for around $8K used, tells me that his B&K 4420 came shockingly close to the sound quality of the VAC. 

 I would avoid Class D amps -- yes, they are inexpensive, but they are an "acquired taste". Don't believe the glowing reviews of Wyred 4 Sound or Bel Canto Class D amps, for example. 

 I also would avoid a tube power amp if you are on a budget, because you will be spending money on tubes down the line to keep it running and your electric bill will go up, as they can consume a lot of power if left on. 

 I also think that tube power amps sound fairly similar to solid state class A/B power amps (whereas tube preamps tend to sound sound quite different in general than solid state preamps.) 

 While going straight from a digital source to a power amp is simple, I am in the camp that finds amp-direct solutions less musically satisfying than when a good preamp is inserted between the source and the amp. The volume control on digital sources is usually also digitial and digital volume controls attenuate the digital signal, meaning you lose information unless the volume control is turned all the way up, not an option unless you want to blow the drivers in your speakers. And digital sources with analogue volume controls tend to be pretty expensive. But if you already have a good headphone amp that will serve as a good preamp, this is not an issue.


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## Happy Camper

I would also back investigating the B&K gear. First amp to push my 4 ohm stats HT system without strain. As mentioned, get your speakers matched to a good amp. Once you choose that, usually matching a pre/controller of the same manufacturer is a safe bet. 

 I'm of the opinion that no pre is the best pre but I've not tried speakers directly.


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## 9pintube

IMO. Source (Turntable), best preamp, amp/s, cables then speakers. You can always get speakers cheap from the audiophiles with "up-grade-i-tist"!!! They seem to have to buy the Mark 1, 2, 3,4,5,6 etc.....It's about the music.. Your best pre-amp (tube) for me will let your source breeeeeath!!!!


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## vikspl

I personally believe the theory that Mr Tiefenbrun used to promoted the Linn Sondek; the source is most important followed by everything else ending up with the speakers as least important.  So if you have an incredible power amp and are giving it a horrible signal it will sound horrible, and similarly if you have horrible power amp you wont hear the incredible sound given to it by the preamp.
   
  So to answer your question i would say that the preamp needs to be better than your power amp other wise it will be holding your system back.  So spend whatever money necessary on a preamp that would do that with the power amp in your end-game system.
   
  -Doug


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