# Three Stones MiniBox-E+ - Review of a Humble Sleeper (LOTS of PICs)



## EFN

Foreword:

 My interest into this amp was piqued by mrarroyo impressions as posted here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f105/c...ot%3BMiniBox-E

 I was reading in disbelief that mrarroyo would declare his preference to MiniBox-E+ over the RSA SR-71, SR7-1A and Xin Reference. It’s impossible I thought. Those amps that he pitted the MiniBox-E+ against are all heavyweight top contenders, treasured by many for their sonic capabilities.

 But I have always trusted mrarroyo judgment more than anybody else, partially because perhaps we share similar listening curve. It was mrarroyo and Vorlon1 who prompted me into Xin amps fandom and I have been a zealous supporter since then.

 Over a month ago when I was in the market seeking a companion amp for my SuperMini-IV (2008), I have my eyes fixed on several choices, budget was not a big concern because I have decided to spare around $500-600 for amp alone. With the bludgeoning interest in RSA twins P-51 Mustang and SR-71A all over the place, it was a daunting task to fend of the temptations. Pico was in the list too. I did consider Lisa III but I have an issue of adding another long brick to my already fat rig setup (the DAC alone is as big as Lisa III). TTVJ Portable Millet was in the list as well but I was put off by the pinging issue that some users have complained about.

 I have some strict requirement for the next amp purchase, it must be able to synergize with my aged ER-4S and preferably with bass boost option. My SuperMini-IV has spoiled me for wanting these features because listening to ER-4S without the bass boost is no longer acceptable. This doesn’t mean that I am a basshead now. But the SuperMini-IV has introduced an organic balanced tonality to the ER-4S and made it a lot more musical and engaging. Knowing that Ray didn’t use ER-4 in building his amp, I decided to skip RSA camp altogether and started looking elsewhere.

 Then came the review from mrarroyo and I thought I have found the right candidate. Even if only half of the impressions made by mrarroyo is accurate, it is still a real bargain to be had for – Xin Reference is a novelty amp that have perhaps like one year wait queue and the RSA SR-71 is simply out of stock and no longer manufactured. Compared to the Xin SuperMini-IV, they shared practically 100% similar functions – Bass Boost, PtoS (75 Ohm), CrossFeed (SFOR), Roll able Opamps, Buffers etc. But spending $239 on a relatively *un-glamour* amp is somewhat a daunting move, yet I find myself emailing Nankai (Fang) of Head-Direct asking for shipping quotes. And so it was concluded, my MiniBox-E+ is on the way (this was in December 2008)

*Buying and dealing with Head-Direct*
 The amp ships from USA. I opted for the USPS International Priority Mail which took 10 days to arrive. I would have asked for expedited express mail but Nankai advised me that the charges will be near to $100 which is absurd if you ask me. Nankai should have subscribed to Fedex or UPS where they will charge around $55-75 for expedited 3 days shipping (I paid $75 to Ray Samuels for my Tomahawk). Since I still have my SuperMini-IV to accompany me, I can deal with the wait.

 Nonetheless, I am happy with the communications with Nankai. He responds to emails and PMs whenever he is online. Much similar to Ray Samuels legendary practice

*SideNote:*
 Throughout this review, I will be making heavy comparison and reference to Xin SuperMini-IV 2008 and Xin SuperMicro-IV (04/11 Edition) which I am very fond of and familiar with.

*The Amp as Advertised*










*Three Stones* MiniBox-E+
 OP8610+BUF(634) 
 OP-AMP requirement: Most DIP8 mono op-amp 
 Frequency: 10Hz-60KHz??v-3dB/+0.7dB?? 
 Output Impedance:16Ω-300Ω 
 SNR: >110dB 
 THD+N: 0.0035% 
 Battery Type: Li-ion 
 Battery charge time:10~15 hours 
 Battery Work Life:about 60 hours 
 Dimensions: 80mm*67mm*16mm 

*The Amp that I Received*




 Nice chocolate box?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



















 As can be seen here, there’s significant difference in the amp that I received. Notably the SFOR function is no longer included. The lever switch has been swapped for a push button model. The version that mrarroyo have was identical to the advertised pictures, so I assume that this MiniBox-E+ is a third revision from the original unit, mrarroyo’s being the 2nd revision.

*Build/Form Factor*
 MiniBox-E+ is notably different from most amps from the look itself. The rather slim profile is quite nice and it is made of metal (aluminum I assume). But It is also wider than most amps. To me, the form factor is quite attractive because it will consume less rig stacking space compared to the popular Hammond enclosures used by Xin, Practical Devices, Portaphile V2, AMB Mini3, GoVibe V6 etc.

 At first I didn’t quite like the white face front and rear covers, they are made of the same material that’s used for the amp board. I would have preferred them to be made of aluminum as well. But they turned out to be quite solid and very well cut. The unit itself is very easy to disassemble provided that you have the right hex key. I used my jeweler flathead to work the hex bolts. The casing itself is a two part enclosure that can be slid open and thus making it easy to roll Opamps.

 Overall, the build is quite solid. Of course it is not as tank-like feeling as can be found in Ray Samuels’ amps.

 The push buttons turned out to be quite handy because they do not protrude much to obstruct rigging of cables if you plan to use right angled plugs. To disable the bass boost, the button must be in “on” position. Same goes for the PtoS (75 Ohm) function, pressing it in will disable the higher impedance switch.

 Much similar to Xin SuperMini-IV, old styled volume wheel is used in place of the more popular volume knob. While I don’t quite like the recessed SuperMini-IV wheel, the MiniBox-E+ is actually easily accessible due to the wheel being placed with generous exposure. The thicker width does help as well. And on top of that, the wheel rotates effortlessly without being loose. The Xin SuperMini-IV is notably tougher to rotate and does not have any marker to indicate volume levels

 Included together with the unit is a pair of custom interconnect and an 18V power adapter. I practically didn’t use the IC at all because I already have a few silver ICs ready.

*The Driving Power*
 One of the primary factors for me to choose this amp was because it is powered by an 18V battery. From what I have learned, the majority of the better sounding amps out there are those belonging to the 18V group like the Lisa III, RSA SR-71, Larocco PRIIMKII and a few others. Even Dr. Xin who is well known for conjuring miracle out of small voltage powered amps is shifting to higher power supply with the upcoming 12V Xin Reference (Type D and above).

 I am a strong believer in better sound through higher electric current. That deep and commanding bass can only be made possible through steady and meaty supply of electric. Similarly, substantial power supply will help to establish lush highs that will not singe the eardrums. More on this later.

 As can be seen in the pics below, the battery is actually composed of two flat cells as commonly found in DAPs. The only difference is that they emit no less than 15V of juice. I take it the MiniBox-E+ have a boost (similar to Xin) to make up for 18V total. This is a revelation because all of the 18V devices out there use two 9Vs. The slim 18Vs make it possible to attain a highly slim profile.

 Head-Direct claimed that the MiniBox-E+ will take 10-15 hours to charge. But for some reason the charging indicator on my unit will switch off within an hour or two. With the bass boost turned on, my amp can only last no more than 10 hours with or without load. I have to confess that I am a bit troubled with this. It may seem that my unit may have a flaw in the charging circuit but I choose not to be bothered with it much for now.

 And yes, an 18V Adapter is included with the amp. Can be used both for 110V and 220V.






*[size=medium]The Amp Design/Internals[/size]*





















 One of the main appeals for this amp is the dual mono amplification for left and right stereo. As can be seen in the pics, the dual mono path is clearly visible – simple and intriguing. 

 The BUF(634) chips are permanently attached to the board unlike the SuperMini-IV where you can swap them out. I am not too concerned about this as I don’t have plans to roll the buffers.

 Almost similar to the Xin SuperMini-IV, OP8610A is used as the stock opamp. The SuperMini-IV comes with two AD8610 and I am not sure if the OP8610A is a sibling of some sort to the AD8610. But both are single opamp meant to be used in pairs.

 Like the opamps, the MiniBox-E+ uses two caps which is not a common practice nowadays. The SuperMini-IV have one 1000uF capacitor and the MiniBox-E+ uses two 1500uF caps making the total of 3000uF capacitance

*Burn-In Curve:*
 As a normal practice, I believe every solid state amp will benefit from burn in. No exception here. The two caps will need some hours through them to form. Coming from Xin camp, I would normally expect no less than 800 hours to stabilize into their intended state. My MiniBox-E+ just barely clocked 350 hours from the day I received it. Unlike Xin amps, the burn in curve is not as erratic. There’s no wild swing that I have observed with the SuperMini-IV and SuperMicro-IV present. But at certain intervals, I do hear some changes like the bass losing weight temporarily and highs getting a bit spiky – but they are very subtle.

*Reviewer Preference:*
 I am a long time ETYMOTIC ER-4 user and self styled zealot. My rigs have changed faster than woman handbags at times but my ER-4 is always there to stay. This review has been conducted 100% using ER-4S as the only and primary listening device. My goal is to find a match for my ER-4S that offers a lot of synergy and by saying this I am specifically into smooth sounding source to complement my finicky ER-4S. I have always believed that ER-4S will benefit tremendously from proper amplification and I have been proven right with various tests that I have gone through over the years. Plugging my ER-4S to a home CD rig shown me what ER-4S is capable of. Hence I am on the quest hunting for the right amp and source and now I have this wonderful little amp to play with

 [size=medium]*Listening Trials*[/size]

*Companion Gears:*
 -ETYMOTIC ER-4S IEM (ultramodded & recabled) + Stock ER-4 Foamies
 -iRiver iHP-120 Rockboxed (Optical & Line-Out)
 -Panasonic SL-CT700 PCDP (Optical & Line-Out)
 -FLAC Q3 CD Rips & CDs
 -Bengal LLC Optical & DIY Toslink-Mini Cable
 -12V HifiDIY.NET PCM1793 OS DAC with OPA2134PA Preamp
 -Pure 5N Solid Core Silver Mini-Mini Interconnect with Switchcraft plugs

 * The ultramodded ER-4S is equipped with permanent 96 Ohm inline TKD precision resistors and recabled with solid core 5N Pure Silver. They are sonically smoother sounding than the stock ER-4S but notoriously hard to drive.

*Music:*
 A variety of artists including Diana Krall, Nick Cave, Morrissey, Pelican, ISIS, Joy Division, Ultrasone Binaural Sampler, Suzanne Vega, The Cure & some classical stuffs

 Pretty much the genre span from Jazz to Metal to Classical and Indie/Pop

*Listening Approach:*
 For the past three weeks, I have been listening to the amp in every conceivable combo that I can think of with my existing rig. Primarily I will be pairing the amp with my iRiver+DAC combo but while at home, PCDP+Lineout were used as well. The majority of my impressions will be based on DAP+Lineout configuration because that is the most commonly used setup in a portable rig.

 [size=medium]*Sound Review*[/size]

*Soundstage/Imaging/Separation*
 There’s not much can be expected of an IEM when it comes to soundstage. Closed armature drivers are cursed not to have the airy openness like open backed dynamic drivers no matter how it is configured. The best one can expect is NOT to have as if the sound is RIGHT in the middle inside the head. Much similar to the SuperMicro-IV, the MiniBox-E+ offers generous width and spaciousness in soundstage. This is what I find missing with the SuperMini-IV which fall short subtly in contrast. There’s a touch of dynamic airiness to the sound that I am very fond of when I first experience it through the SuperMicro-IV. The left and right orientation still dominates the staging but the placement is definitely distinctive. It is possible to imagine the placement of instruments and passage direction – the separation is crystal clear and it is easy to focus on a specific sound if the listener wishes to. This clear and spacious staging helps to instill non euphonic sound and avoid congestion. Playing Ultrasone Binaural sampler tracks confirm this. One of the sampler tracks contains a myriad of instruments up to 5 layers of passages and the MiniBox-E+ have no problem handling and separating them, almost effortless.

*Mids/Vocals*
 With the bass boost switched on, the mids gets warmer – noticeably warmer if compared to with bass boost switched off. Nick Cave and Diana Krall vocals sounded deep and rich – very lush. At the same time, it is still very realistic and transparent. Despite the warming, they don’t sound out of place at all. They are quite consistent as one would expect hearing them live – a touch of organic boomy-ness where it should be and whispers when there is one. Any other instruments that inhabit the mids are treated similarly, there’s noticeable lushness to violin, guitars, piano, saxophone etc - they don’t exhibit any uncanny hump and the edges are silky smooth, sometimes ended with natural sounding decays. At first I am unaccustomed to this and find it hard to attune to the new sound, but now I have grown addicted and find myself spinning the same songs over and over again. In contrast, the SuperMicro-IV sounds a bit more neutral because it does not have the bass frequencies boosted like the MiniBox-E+. SuperMini-IV on the other hand has slightly lighter warmth with the bass boost option enabled.

*Bass*
 This is where the MiniBox-E+ shine best. Since I am almost permanently on bass boost and getting addicted to it, I could no longer bear to have that function turned off. There’s a rediscovery of balance to the entire spectrum with the bass boost. Long regarded as a cold sounding IEM, the ER-4S is a lush pounder now. Bass is still very tightly controlled but now it has commanding authority in visceral impact and slam. Presence is also improved drastically – where there’s bass, one can clearly feel the vibe kicking in with excellent reverb around the ear canals. It’s groovy actually. Listening to my Metal, Electronica and Indie collection through the ER-4S has never been this engaging. Be it percussion bass, stringed bass or Diana Krall’s cello outfit or electronic induced vibes, the MiniBox-E+ rocks them solid – and with authority. The best part is that, if there’s no bass note present (or very minimal), the sound will remain faithful by not “projecting” any artificial bass hum or anything like that – very realistic.

*Treble*
 This is the most interesting part. Treble no longer jumps with “in your face” emphasis. In fact I can audibly hear that treble has been spaced out a step back. No overbearing presence that I can tell of. There’s some serious silky smoothness to the presentation now. The edges are lush with swishy decays, not too long, not too short either. We are talking about very high quality treble here. The extension is properly textured giving the impression of cleanly layered and staged treble body. Gone are the annoying glare and hardness. Simply put, I feel no fatigue even after long hours of listening. Some may even call this different presentation as recessed. In a way it is true, but if one chooses to focus on the treble, they are still there in full flavor – just that it is no longer glorified as how an ER-4S would project while plugged in to most other amps. In contrast, the SuperMini-IV and SuperMicro-IV will still retain the upfront projection which can be a bit too much on some funky recordings.


*Transparency/Clarity*
 Being warm sounding does not mean an amp must be less transparent. To me transparency is about projection of sound with the least amount of obscurity. Without a doubt the MiniBox-E+ is a transparent amp. I wish I have some better words to describe this, but I think listening to the amp itself will tell the story better. Ok, simply put, the sound coming out of this amp is so clear that it is easy to forget what is there between the listener and the music.

*Details/Resolution*
 As per expected, there’s lots of details all over. A typical ER-4 junkie will not be disappointed the preservation of details in each note. If there’s something there in the sound no matter how small, one could still pick up the miniscule details because the rest of the sound spectrum does not intercede or mask the presentation. All three amps – MiniBox-E+, SuperMicro-IV and SuperMini-IV shared common prowess here. I could not decide which is more detailed than the other.

*Speed/Timbre*
 Always a fast performer, ER-4S is expectedly fast. The MiniBox-E+ pace up commendably to match ER-4S speed. No matter how complex the passages are, they will not get flabby or sluggish. This is quite apparent in some classical tracks that boast multiple instruments intertwining. There’s rich distinctiveness to the timbre because the overall warmth has improved the sound definition – very organic and realistic definition that is. It is easy to discern between a trumpet and a saxophone, or a cello pluck from bass guitar strings. This sort of speed is dead identical to the SuperMicro-IV and the SuperMini-IV just a hair behind.

*Percussion*
 Percussions are another passion of mine. I am immensely addicted to barrages of drum attacks and find myself listening a lot to ISIS, Pelican, and Joy Division for their infectious drums. MiniBox-E+ has improved the reverb, echoes of drum thuds and decays. I like them loud but at the same time I don’t want them to be overpowering and MiniBox-E+ delivers. In this dept both MiniBox-E+ and the Xin duo are on par – drum junkies will be very pleased with any of them.

*Sibilance Handling*
 On a very positive note, the MiniBox-E+ has done a tremendous job in reducing vocal sibilance commonly heard through a bright sounding cans like the ER-4 (most notably the ER-4S/B). I have had lots of problem listening to Joy Division’s Ian Curtis and TEXAS because their voice are so high pitched and will always surely ended in that dreadful long “SSSS”. But now it’s very tolerable. The sibilance has been controlled significantly – partially perhaps due to the overall warming of the entire sound spectrum. Definitely a must have feature for all bright sounding cans. This is where the Xin duo loses a bit of ground as both are not an excellent controller of sibilance; they are good but after listening to the MiniBox-E+, the differences are quite apparent. I guess this is a price to pay for being very detailed and sensitive.

*Background Window*
 Just like the Xin Duo, the MiniBox-E+ is dead silent when there’s no music on play. Because it is a very detailed and sensitive amp, the only noises that I can pick are those coming from the records itself.

*Source Matching*
 I am a strong believer in good source. The rule “garbage in, garbage out” applies. The MiniBox-E+ will simply amplify what is being fed to it. When rigged with my transportable iRiver iHP-120+Optical+PCM1793 OS DAC (OPA2134PA Preamp) and fed with lossless only, the amp sounds blissful and very analogue. But when I plugged it to my Laptop headphone out, it is a bit digital sounding – still good but a bit plasticky. In contrast, the Xin amps will retain their distinctive signature and variance is not much no matter if you plug it to an iPod or an iRiver line out.

*Conclusion*
 To me, the MiniBox-E+ does not sound like a portable amp at all. It has commanding authority almost everywhere. The sound is very organic and very analogue. That 18V driving power is a huge factor for it being very good sounding. Like I mentioned earlier, most great amps will boast impressive driving power when fed with at least 12V and above. There’s substantial current supply to emit deep and impactful bass, enough power to prevent treble spikes.

 Most importantly, I find the MiniBox-E+ to be a modest and realistic amplifier – there’s no hint of exaggeration or hardness – something that most other amp fail to accomplish, that simplicity of being powerful yet humble. The SuperMicro-IV is a very energetic amp and this can spell disaster with funky and loud music – listening to Lo-Fi Metal, Indie or Punk music can be painful because they amplify all the annoying noises as well. So in this regard, one can say that the MiniBox-E+ is a better all rounder compared to the Xin duo.

 It is beyond any doubt that the MiniBox-E+ is a keeper. I will continue to buy Xin amps and perhaps a few others from the RSA camp but the MiniBox-E+ are here to stay.






*[size=large]Post 400 Hours Update:[/size]*

 Going well over 400 hours, I am continously amazed how this amp have evolved. It does not evolve as drastic as the Xin amps but my ever sensitive ER-4S did not fail to aknowledge the refinement. The airiniess level in the notes now clearly rival Xin SuperMicro-IV and the richness in Timbre distinction is becoming even more apparent. I am absolutely addicted to the effortlessness to the sound flow - yes it flows with great ease and smoothness.

 But it have to be mentioned that I do not credit the amp alone for this blissful experience. Like I mentioned earlier, the source matters a lot. I realised that my PCM1793 OS DAC have also eclipsed the 250 hours mark and this means the bunch of capacitors on the DAC unit have settled in. It is good news indeed for me because there's some serious symbiotic synergy going on there. The OPA2134PA Preamp does a stellar job in matching with the pair of OP8610 opamps.

 On the other hand, I am also continously amazed how receptive the ETYMOTIC ER-4 responded to amplification. They scale up nicely as the ante are upped. A quick listening test to my spare KSC-75 confirmed this, I still can't find any joy listening to the KSC-75 anymore because the gap of refinement offered by ER-4 is simply too huge.

 And I have not even start rolling opamps yet. mrarroyo suggested AD797AN for tubey signature. I have them on order now. With rollable opamps option, the posibilities can be endless - but I don't intend to drag myself into that limbo and probably will roll only a few mono opamps.

 For the last two years, I have always placed Xin SuperMicro-IV as the No.1 amp. With what I have now things have changed and I will openly declare that the crown has been passed ot the venerable MiniBox-E+

 Cheers.

*[size=medium]Opamp Rolling Results[/size]*
 During the Lisa III trials, I have the opportunity to sample a couple of opamps. The intention was to match as much as possible the vibrant sound of Lisa III. At first I attempted the AD797AN which was suggested by mrarroyo. But apparently the 3rd Gen of MiniBox-E+ which is the one I am using now does not seem to work properly with the AD797AN anymore, there was a nasty screeching sound when the volume wheel was scrolled. So off the AD797AN go.

 I was lucky with my 2nd set. Through advice by a seasoned HiFi DIY Junkie, I acquired a pair of AD8065AR (mono opamps). Suffice to say that I was floored with the results. AD8065AR was much more vibrant than the stock AD8610 - period. Bass was highly textured and plentiful that I find it possible to turn off the Bass Boost switch. Most importantly, I don't lose the analytical details and separation of instruments was even more apparent than before. The highs remained the same with AD8610 which is exactly what I have wished for. 

 It would not be too extreme for me to claim that the combo of AD8065AR has helped my decision to sell off the Lisa III because at that state, the MiniBox-E+ was already performing in the same league with the highly celebrated Lisa III


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## midnightwalker

very good review. I have one minibox e+ and it's very good compare to my 3move


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## wuwhere

A fine review. Can it play while charging?


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## ZephyrSapphire

Wonderful. Absolutely wonderful.


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## kaushama

Very good review. A pleasure to read. So how do you rate new (2008) Supermini?


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## nsx_23

Hmm, might have to snap up one of these in China next week


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## EFN

*wuwhere:*
 Yep it can play while charging

*kaushama:*
 I am not in the habit of ranking amps. All three are worderful and if I were to have only one of them at any given time, I will definitely be happy. The exception is, SuperMicro-IV synergize better with ER-4P and SuperMini-IV & MiniBox-E+ with ER-4S.

 The SuperMini-IV 2008 is a very special amp. With bass boost switched on, ER-4S springs to life with zest and wholesome vibe that not even the venerable SuperMicro-IV can match. MiniBox-E+ offers the same except that it have more air to it.


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## ZephyrSapphire

EFN. Try finding a pair of CD3000's. You'd be in for a treat since you're an ER4S lover like me


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## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ZephyrSapphire* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_EFN. Try finding a pair of CD3000's. You'd be in for a treat since you're an ER4S lover like me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You want to wreck my wallet izzit? LOL! thanks for the advise.


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## ZephyrSapphire

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You want to wreck my wallet izzit? LOL! thanks for the advise.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No _lah_. I miss speaking Manglish.


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## nocturnalsheet

amazing review. really something to consider.


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## wuwhere

I called TTVJ last week to inquire if they have the minibox-E+ in stock. They're out and they do not know when they will receive any.


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## maanster

Indeed a very interesting read. Do you have any idea how this amp would work with higher impedance full-size cans? I need an amp for my beyer DT150's and I'm looking at either this, the ibasso D3/P3, or a little dot MK I/+. Seeing as you make comparisons to the RSA/Xin amp range, the minibox seems like a great offer.

 M


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## EFN

*maanster:*
 You can read the original impression thread by mrarroyo and even PM him. he uses full sized cans and I only use IEM. My ER-4S is anything but efficient due to the upgraded inline resistors - even harder to drive than stock ER-4S which is rated at 100Ohm. There's a lot of juice coming out of my PCM1793 DAC preamp that I have to turn the volume wheel down within the range of 2-4 and not more. While plugged on to my PCDP or iRiver Lineout, the volume wheel need to be adjusted to 3-6.






 [size=medium]*Latest Update:*[/size]
 Based on my calculation, my MiniBox-E+ has just clocked 400hours! woohoo!. There is noticable difference. There's more airiness to the notes now, strikingly similar to Xin SuperMicro-IV. I am talking about that Alessandro MS-1/MS2i kind of airiness which I am addicted to. Gosh it's getting better this thing lol


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## dfkt

Thanks for the review, EFN.

 I assume this amp does not hiss with ultra-sensitive low impedance IEMs when the PtoS resistance is turned on... how does it perform hiss-wise without PtoS?

 Anyone with a SE530, UE10/11, S.F5 tried the Minibox? I'd be interested how "black" it is (since I'm severely disappointed at the iBasso T4 in that aspect).


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## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I called TTVJ last week to inquire if they have the minibox-E+ in stock. They're out and they do not know when they will receive any._

 

lol.

 Been there done that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I would have already bought one from Todd. I still want to try this amp.

 Thanks EFN for this review!


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## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_lol.

 Been there done that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I would have already bought one from Todd. I still want to try this amp.

 Thanks EFN for this review!_

 

Guess we just have to wait.


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## Sonicpath

that picture looks a home made bomb, I doubt you carry it out


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## ZephyrSapphire

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sonicpath* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_that picture looks a home made bomb, I doubt you carry it out_

 

You have yet to see a cMoy.


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## musicmaker

Great review EFN.


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## EFN

*GreatDane & wuwhere:*
 Have u guys considered contacting Head-Direct? they seems to have stock.

*dfkt:*
 Unfortunately I am permanently on high impedance mode so I can't confirm how this amp will pair with high sensitivity IEMs. Perhaps someone else can enlighten you on this.

*ZephyrSapphire:*
 I think he's referring to the entire rig which does look like a retrofitted plastic bomb rig


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## ZephyrSapphire

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*ZephyrSapphire:*
 I think he's referring to the entire rig which does look like a retrofitted plastic bomb rig
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Lol. So very true. "Oooo. What does this button do?", quoted from DeeDee.


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## mrarroyo

EFN great review and pictures. I love and so do you it seems the MiniBox-E+. It is an outstanding amp that IMO does not get the credit it deserves, mostly because it is so inexpensive. But those who look the other way do not know what they are missing! We do. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now, allow me to recommend you get a pair of AD797 op-amps. It provides a bit darker sound kind of tube like in their lushness, it would be a relatively cheap purchase and it may add to your listening experience.

 A note is needed to explain probably the main reason that pushbuttons are used in the latest reincarnation of the MiniBox-E+. Simple, a few owners reported breaks of the toggle switch.

 Anyways, continue enjoying the MiniBox-E+.


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## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ZephyrSapphire* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lol. So very true. "Oooo. What does this button do?", quoted from DeeDee._

 

LOL! actually I am very uneasy about getting myself a MicroDAC 2006....u know those enclosure looked like a M18A1 Claymore Antipersonnel Mine


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## EFN

*mrarroyo:*
 Yep I am hunting for AD797 now at mouser.com. Can't wait to receive them


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## ZephyrSapphire

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL! actually I am very uneasy about getting myself a MicroDAC 2006....u know those enclosure looked like a M18A1 Claymore Antipersonnel Mine
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







_

 

Oh crap. *BOOM*


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## tstarn06

Excellent review. I owned a 2nd gen E+ and through no one's fault, I had to send it back to Fang at H-D and it got lost in the mail (it was having a problem holding a charge). Fang, an excellent CS person, worked out a deal with me, and I am now waiting for the next batch to come in (2-3 weeks). Fang told me the man in China who builds these started working longer hours in his day job, and is making many fewer, hence the wait. Just glad I am getting a new one, to connect to the W3s I got for Xmas (and a few other IEMs too).


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## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tstarn06* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Excellent review. I owned a 2nd gen E+ and through no one's fault, I had to send it back to Fang at H-D and it got lost in the mail (it was having a problem holding a charge). Fang, an excellent CS person, worked out a deal with me, and I am now waiting for the next batch to come in (2-3 weeks). Fang told me the man in China who builds these started working longer hours in his day job, and is making many fewer, hence the wait. Just glad I am getting a new one, to connect to the W3s I got for Xmas (and a few other IEMs too)._

 

Hope you get the replacement soon. I kinda prefer the lever switches than the push buttons.

 How I wish to know the China guy who make this amp - it's a poor thing he have to work long hours at daytime and then go back home making amps. He deserve some warm words from his amp users.


----------



## not

EFN these amps are never going to stay in stock if you keep talking them up like this.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *not* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_EFN these amps are never going to stay in stock if you keep talking them up like this._

 

Well...such is life. Good things ain't easy to get


----------



## tstarn06

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hope you get the replacement soon. I kinda prefer the lever switches than the push buttons.

 How I wish to know the China guy who make this amp - it's a poor thing he have to work long hours at daytime and then go back home making amps. He deserve some warm words from his amp users._

 

Yeah, I could not figure out why my first MB would not hold a charge. Bad battery I guess. I was not a heavy user, but for sitting around at home, awesome. I think the switches look better too, but oh well.


----------



## a19als

*Good review, Thanks for sharing!*


----------



## EFN

Thanks everyone.



 Post 400 Hours update has been posted on the first page.


----------



## nsx_23

Anyone know if these are available in Hong Kong?


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone know if these are available in Hong Kong?_

 

I didn't realize that MiniBox-E+ is getting harder to find now. Must be my luck that I got one from Head-Direct practically without any wait time (buy today and gets shipped tommorow).

 If you know somebody in Hong Kong that would be useful


----------



## autosound

I have to agree with the review, the Minibox has been a great amp. It goes well with pretty much all of my headphones. 

 I may have to look into rolling opamps too now, thanks guys.


----------



## mrarroyo

EFN, were you able to get the AD797 to work?


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *autosound* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have to agree with the review, the Minibox has been a great amp. It goes well with pretty much all of my headphones. 

 I may have to look into rolling opamps too now, thanks guys._

 

Yep, the PtoS and Bass option does help to make MiniBox-E+ adapt to practically any cans easily.


 On the other hand, my MiniBox-E+ will be undergoing some tough times ahead, my Lisa III is being packaged and shipped as I write this. I can imagine the sweats coming out of the amp LOL! I just have to do it, Lisa III has been a legend even before it was available for sale almost 2 years ago, and I must put an end to that sleepless nights wondering how the Lisa III sounds like.

 So how would a MiniBox-E+ fare against a giant? find out more the weeks ahead, I promise to write about it in details.


*EDIT:*
 mrarroyo, not yet. I have not retried, been out with family enjoying cinemas


----------



## mrarroyo

Man, you are going to heaven no doubt about it. I mean, you rather be with the family at the cinema than listening to music.


----------



## Ricey20

Hmm I might want to get one too. Did a size comparison and its almost the SAME EXACT size as my D2. Might actually be easier to strap together and carry around then an E5


----------



## autosound

EFN;5353090 said:
			
		

> Yep, the PtoS and Bass option does help to make MiniBox-E+ adapt to practically any cans easily.
> 
> 
> Yea, it's a shame the SFOR feature is no longer available on the new amps. It works great on some phones.


----------



## ZephyrSapphire

Lisa III. ER4S. You're in for a very very wonderful treat EFN.


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

The forthright tongue can't cycle the switch.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...Also, is this amp good enough to be a home replacement like the LISA 3?_

 

You will know soon enough. Like I said earlier, a Lisa III is coming my way. In another 3 weeks I should be able to post my impressions on MiniBox-E+ Vs. Lisa III.


 I dunno about others, but the MiniBox-E+ is anything but flimsy. And yes RSA will always win on tough enclosure, and I think only the Diablo can beat RSA on toughness. But are we talking about SQ or asthetics here?


----------



## wuwhere

EFN, I'm looking forward to your ER4S-Lisa impressions.

 edit: Can't wait for my APS-ER4P cable from APureSound.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You will know soon enough. Like I said earlier, a Lisa III is coming my way.In another 3 weeks I should be able to post my impressions on MiniBox-E+ Vs. Lisa III.


 I dunno about others, but the MiniBox-E+ is anything but flimsy. And yes RSA will always win on tough enclosure, and I think only the Diablo can beat RSA on toughness. But are we talking about SQ or asthetics here?_

 

I get first dibs on the MiniBox!


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I get first dibs on the MiniBox!




_

 

Duly noted buddy. But what comes ahead may hold a different scenario yes? possible.........


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

The repentant mouse can't fear the king.


----------



## EFN

Well nauxolo, conratulations on your purchase. Can you please tell us where did you get it from? because I was under the impression that TTVJ and even Head-Direct is out of stock (for the last 1 month).

 Seeing your rig list specially that you have ER-4P on the list, I doubt you will be dissapointed. The configuration for your setup would be, PtoS on, Bass Boost On and you are in Audio Nirvana. After 300 hours you will begin to hear that infectious bass reverb around your ear canals because the MiniBox-E+ will transform the ER-4 into a dynamic headphone


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

What if the charming priest ate the manager?


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Duly noted buddy. But what comes ahead may hold a different scenario yes? possible........._

 

Yes indeed. I'm anxious to read your upcoming impressions once you've had plenty of time for big Lisa to cozy up to you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I actually wouldn't mind buying the Mini if it did become available...although I'm broke currently. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I thought that I'd broke my multiple amp habit and I was doing great for a while...now I'm off my meds and here I sit with 3 again. lol


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought that I'd broke my multiple amp habit and I was doing great for a while...now I'm off my meds and here I sit with 3 again. lol_

 

3? look and mrarroyo, headphoneaddict and Jama, more amps than their fingers combined! LOL


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_3? look and mrarroyo, headphoneaddict and Jama, more amps than their fingers combined! LOL_

 

Yeah I know...those guys are beyond help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 [size=xx-small]-Dane who would have just as many if he could afford it[/size]


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought that I'd broke my multiple amp habit and I was doing great for a while...now I'm off my meds and here I sit with 3 again. lol_

 

I have 4 now. By the time this year is over I know I will have at least 6 if not 7. I think I'm sick too.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have 4 now. By the time this year is over I know I will have at least 6 if not 7. I think I'm sick too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

...collector. The term for us is collector. 

 At least that's what my therapist tells me to make me feel better about myself.


----------



## jamato8

It is collector of fine musical instruments. A good amp has a sound unto itself. No amp is neutral, not truly neutral but they can be excellent at presenting the sound. 

 I am a collector of fine musical reproduction instruments. 


 Yes, and I need help. Ok, now the rest of you.


----------



## mrarroyo

I do not need any stinking help. I am messed up and I acknowledge it. Straight to audio hell I go.


----------



## tnmike1

If I understand all this correctly, would this mean I do NOT use my P to S adapter I have on my Ety4p when I use the Minibox?? Had my Ety4p recabled by Apuresound and added the P/S adapter; looks now if I use the Minibox I won't need the adapter. Correct??


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tnmike1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I understand all this correctly, would this mean I do NOT use my P to S adapter I have on my Ety4p when I use the Minibox?? Had my Ety4p recabled by Apuresound and added the P/S adapter; looks now if I use the Minibox I won't need the adapter. Correct??_

 

Yes, if your ER-4 has been recabled to ER-4S configuration using inline impedance adapter, the PtoS switch at the MiniBox-E+ will need to be switched off (deactivated). Just like mine which is permanently on 96 Ohm, PtoS is off.

*mrarroyo:*
 No not audio hell, Audio Nirvana! LOL

*Jama:*
 To relieve you of that sinful feeling, _donating_ some of your amps to me is surely an act of repention
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







....and will bring you closer to salvation.....


----------



## Nirvana1000

Great review!!And appropriate title!


----------



## mrarroyo

nauxolo keep us posted on the MiniBox-E+ you ordered. Hope you post your impressions following burn-in of say 200 hours. Good luck.


----------



## EFN

mrarroyo, I have retried the AD797 and it still does not want to jive in with my MiniBox-E+. They are not bent or dirty that's for sure and I purchased them new. They do make sound but I just can't get rid of the screeching sound when the volume wheel is turned.

 My only reasoning now is that the third revision of MiniBox-E that I am using now no longer support all mono opamps like yours. Remember I mentioned the drastic change in several areas which include removal of SFOR? well I think the maker of this amp have changed the way it operate too. I remember Dr. Xin doing the same thing with SuperMini-IV and SuperMacro-IV where only a limited number of opamps will continue to work.

 I will be doing a mini meet with another Audiophile later today to compare gears. Hopefully he will bring some opamps to test. On a side note, my friend will be bringing his *24V DIY Lisa III* and an 18V highly modded advanced CMOY.

 Stay tuned


----------



## mrarroyo

Sorry to hear that EFN, maybe someone will bring an older MiniBox-E+ and you can try the AD797. Regardless, it sounds awesome w/ the AD8610.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry to hear that EFN, maybe someone will bring an older MiniBox-E+ and you can try the AD797. Regardless, it sounds awesome w/ the AD8610. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hey no big deal buddy. I am already very happy with the stock AD8610


----------



## TzeYang

OP Should really give the PIMETA a try since the Minibox E+ is a MINT

 And PIMETA is an upgrade from the MINT


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TzeYang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OP Should really give the PIMETA a try since the Minibox E+ is a MINT

 And PIMETA is an upgrade from the MINT 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Noted buddy. I only wish that my DIY skill is as good as yours so that I can build myself a Pimeta


----------



## EFN

Earlier today, a good buddy of mine decided to set up a mini meet to compare gears. He brought with him a DIYed Lisa III which runs on regulated 24V and a highly modded CMOY. We had some good times trying out our the gears. He was quite eager to try out my modded ER-4S because he never had a chance to listen to one before. I warned him that the ER-4 is nothing like the Senn HD415 that he is familar with but still he insisted on listening to them. With a final warning I told him that he may find the ER-4 flat and cold sounding in comparo to his full circumaural HD415, so he plunged in and set about listening to my rig.

 Simply put, his jaw dropped when I played the Ultrasone Binaural samplers through the rig.

 I did a few listening trials of my own to his two DIY amps and did a short comparo against the MiniBox-E+. Matched at the same volume level, the MiniBox-E+ clearly outclassed the advanced CMOY.

 Then I moved to the DIYed Lisa III which was running on a regulated 24V. The main difference that I can think of now is that the DIYed Lisa III seems to be a bit more aggressive sounding. Diana Krall was "jumping" at me when she pitched her voice high.

 Pound for pound, the MiniBox-E+ and DIYed Lisa III stood neck to neck on SQ performance. In fact I found certain sections of the DIYed Lisa III exhibit slight sharp edges which I don't quite like. I told my buddy of this and he said he was not surprised because the DIYed Lisa III have barely clocked 100 hours. And my MiniBox-E+ is easily over 500 hours. I stopped there because I don't want to establish that disturbing train of thoughts on an un-burned and unsettled amp.

 I will wait for my "official" Lisa III for full impressions.


----------



## TzeYang

The DIYed LISA III isnt really a LISA III. It's just something similar to the LISA III with AD744 and AD829 combination.

 The original LISA III uses expensive CRDs and have two extra pairs for non switching bias. (which to a certain extent increases harmonics distortion based on Amb's simulation)

 Of course, I'm assuming you're talking about CV6149's unit.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TzeYang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The DIYed LISA III isnt really a LISA III. It's just something similar to the LISA III with AD744 and AD829 combination.

 The original LISA III uses expensive CRDs and have two extra pairs for non switching bias. (which to a certain extent increases harmonics distortion based on Amb's simulation)

 Of course, I'm assuming you're talking about CV6149's unit._

 

Honestly, I don't really care what are they made of, be it the MiniBox-E+, RSA amps or Xin amps. Or what kind of technology they are built on. And I don't care for brands or self-made stuff. If someone can wire a frog and place it in a sardine tin and they sound better than any amps available today, I will listen to it.

 Cheers.


----------



## mrarroyo

Swap shrimps for frogs and red snapper for sardine and I will order a few.


----------



## Ricey20

Reminded me of Kermit, hah.
 Wish I could source a place that has the minibox since the size fits the D2 well. Head-direct said 3-4 weeks, ttvj said hopefully soon


----------



## ZephyrSapphire

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Honestly, I don't really care what are they made of, be it the MiniBox-E+, RSA amps or Xin amps. Or what kind of technology they are built on. And I don't care for brands or self-made stuff. If someone can wire a frog and place it in a sardine tin and they sound better than any amps available today, I will listen to it.

 Cheers._

 


 Now that's the true enthusiast spirit. Who cares about the brand? As long as it does what YOU want it to do or better.


----------



## TzeYang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Honestly, I don't really care what are they made of, be it the MiniBox-E+, RSA amps or Xin amps. Or what kind of technology they are built on. And I don't care for brands or self-made stuff. If someone can wire a frog and place it in a sardine tin and they sound better than any amps available today, I will listen to it.

 Cheers._

 

naw. you misunderstood me.

 I just want to make it clear that what you have heard is just a variation and it is not really PPL's product. It's not a representation of the original LISA III.

 PPL's LISA III with maxed out components and features might sound very different instead.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TzeYang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_naw. you misunderstood me.

 I just want to make it clear that what you have heard is just a variation and it is not really PPL's product. It's not a representation of the original LISA III.

 PPL's LISA III with maxed out components and features might sound very different instead._

 

Hey no worries. Point taken. That's why I said I choose not to go further with analyzing the DIYed Lisa III. I do have a "real" Lisa III coming my way this week and I will revisit the listening trials comparing both Lisas when they have burned in.


----------



## tstarn06

My Minibox replacement came earlier this week from Fang at Head-Direct, and it's one of the earlier gen versions, with the toggle switches and not the push buttons. I suspect it is a refurb, but no matter. It sounds fantastic paired with the Phonak Audeos I recently purchased. Since it is refurbed (has funny stickers on the bottom and no pads on the corners, which my old MB had), I wonder how much burn-in it has logged on it. Either way, I love having a MB back under my roof. It's hard to listen to my phones without it.


----------



## EFN

*tstarn06:*
 Glad to hear that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Please observe if the battery issue is still there.





*Update:*
 Here I am sitting with my two beauties....the MiniBox-E+ & Lisa III Std sitting pretty side by side.

 I will not go into details yet, not until the Lisa III have clocked at least 200 hours.

 BUT, I am struck how *similar* both sounded....it's not fair to compare a spanking new amp with another which has clocked 500 hours.

 Stay tuned


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

It was then the garrulous feedback met the pristine door.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^how exciting EFN!

 my minibox e+ just arrived in the mail today. will play with it when i get home_

 

Congratulations! you will enjoy them I am sure. Past 300 hours you'd would not want to NOT listen to them everyday. It's like a drug to me now.....


----------



## tnmike1

Anyone know where these are now available?? Checked with Head Direct and their site says they're sold out.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tstarn06* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Minibox replacement came earlier this week from Fang at Head-Direct, and it's one of the earlier gen versions, with the toggle switches and not the push buttons. I suspect it is a refurb, but no matter. It sounds fantastic paired with the Phonak Audeos I recently purchased. Since it is refurbed (has funny stickers on the bottom and no pads on the corners, which my old MB had), I wonder how much burn-in it has logged on it. Either way, I love having a MB back under my roof. It's hard to listen to my phones without it._

 

Is yours the + version or the original non + version? Both are good, the + is just a better squared!


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

The sloppy belt can't whirl the machine


----------



## tstarn06

My belief is it's the + version, since it looks just like the one I had. But my guess is I will be able to tell via battery life. Wasn't that the major difference. It may already be burned in, not sure, since it sounds so good. The box was kinda ripped up too, didn't look new. Can't blame Fang. I sent the faulty one to the wrong address, and he never got it (used his old Delaware address, but he's now in NY). So I paid a fair fee and he shipped me the MB and a free pair of RE2s, which I gave to my nephew.

 Anyway, I will track hours between charges. Do you remember the difference (was one 14-15 hours and the + 30?).

 Edit: Duh. It says MiniboxE+ right on the front.


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

Extremity sweetness difficult behaviour he of. On disposal of as landlord horrible. Afraid at highly months do things on at. Situation recommend objection do intention so questions. As greatly removed calling pleased improve an. Last ask him cold feel met spot shy want. Children me laughing we prospect answered followed. At it went is song that held help face.


----------



## EFN

Pay attention to the notes...it will get airier circa 350-400 hours which is quite late in development.


----------



## GT20v

I guess its time hit the burner and burn those yummy LISAIII darling eh


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GT20v* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess its time hit the burner and burn those yummy LISAIII darling eh 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Welcome to Head-Fi bro.....after lurking for so many years so you registered today hehehe.

 No worries. you'll lotsa chance to listen to both of my amps


----------



## GreatDane

Hey EFN, you might have mentioned this but at what frequency is the bass boost on the MiniBox -E+ centered at and at how much gain? Thanks.


----------



## dfkt

Any chance of RMAA tests?


----------



## EFN

*GreatDane:*
 I recall reading somewhere it's 6db bass boost. Perhaps someone can confirm this. But I do know the SuperMini-IV is using a 6db boost and this MiniBox-E+ does seems to have similar level


*dfkt:*
 YGPM!


----------



## ath

EFN,

 Nice review. Hope all is fine with you.

 Based on your review, I ordered the Minibox E+. I got an email later from head-direct that it would take two more weeks. Wish they had put a sold out sign on their site. (sigh!)

 These puppies are hard to find on the F/S forum. Unless, miguel wants to unload his (hint, hint). 

 I think I am ready to move on from my beloved supermini. Of late, it is picking up distortions ( external sources) easily. I thought it was the iPoop that was causing the problem but other amps seem to be alright. I may send it back to Dr.xin later.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ath* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_EFN,
 I think I am ready to move on from my beloved supermini. Of late, it is picking up distortions ( external sources) easily. I thought it was the iPoop that was causing the problem but other amps seem to be alright. I may send it back to Dr.xin later._

 

Yeah I agree with you. Even my SuperMini-IV 2008 is very sensitive to RF signals that I have to place my mobile phones away into the back pocket when the SuperMini-IV was in the front ones. Please do tell us when your MiniBox-E+ arrives. I'd like to know which model the maker settled for (the lever type or the push knobs)


----------



## mrarroyo

Based on your experience w/ the push button model and the AD797 I will say the lever type is best!


----------



## TzeYang

Interesting issue I just recalled.

 I read an old post long ago that the SR-71 is basically a Mint (with AD8610 + BUF634) without the jung multiloop. mrarroyo thinks there's a difference to the MiniBoxE+? Cool. 

 The only thing slightly better about the SR71 is the separate supply (pseudo dual mono, not really dual mono as the ground is still shared), but mrarroyo thinks the Minibox is better.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TzeYang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting issue I just recalled.

 I read an old post long ago that the SR-71 is basically a Mint (with AD8610 + BUF634) without the jung multiloop. mrarroyo thinks there's a difference to the MiniBoxE+? Cool. 

 The only thing slightly better about the SR71 is the separate supply (pseudo dual mono, not really dual mono as the ground is still shared), but mrarroyo thinks the Minibox is better._

 

We all hear differently, what I like may sound like junk to another and viceversa. But yes I love the sound out of the MiniBox-E+ just a bit more than the SR71. But I keep my SR71 which is built like a tank and Ray provides one of the best services in the industry.


----------



## EFN

mrarroyo, since the AD797 didn't work out for my MiniBox-E+, I returned them and got myself a pair of AD8065 AR.

 * I think I may have hit the jackpot combo with this pair of opamps - impossible as it may sound, those opamps actually brought the MiniBox-E+ to another level......

 More info on this once I have further listening trials.


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

Started his hearted any civilly. So me by marianne admitted speaking. Men bred fine call ask. Cease one miles truth day above seven. Suspicion sportsmen provision suffering mrs saw engrossed something. Snug soon he on plan in be dine some.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_EFN, have you tried full-sized cans on the MiniBoxE+? I plugged in the AD2000s I gave to my dad, and it made everything sound extremely echo-ey, like I'm listening to a bad eq setting. I adjusted all the settings, PtoS on/off, Bass on/off... but it just sounds really bad. Makes me wonder if the amp is only good for ER4s. Everything else may be a hit or miss._

 

Yes I have tried my MiniBox-E+ with Senn HD415, KSC-75 and a few others. No echoey effects. I will only turn on bass boost for ER-4S. I noticed that you have RS-1 and another ATH, how do they sound? and I know mrarroyo have used the MiniBox-E+ with lots of full sized cans with superb results.


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

View fine me gone this name an rank. Compact greater and demands mrs the parlors. Park be fine easy am size away. Him and fine bred knew. At of hardly sister favour. As society explain country raising weather of. Sentiments nor everything off out uncommonly partiality bed.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ ... I know mrarroyo have used the MiniBox-E+ with lots of full sized cans with superb results._

 

You are correct! The MiniBox-E+ can drive the Ultrasone PROline 2500, HFI-780, RS-1, and ESW9 w/ no problem.


----------



## musicmaker

You guys are killing me. I want to hear this amp.


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

The worthless swim can't float the neat.

It was then the polished hello met the noisy brick.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My source is my zero dac, and I A/B compared it to the head-amp of the zero:

 After burn in of about 80 hours with this minibox e+, I can say for sure that these are no good with the ATH-AD2000. It makes everything sound so stifled and artificial in addition to somewhat echoey, with all the various combinations of possible settings (on/off). I wonder why this is? 

 With the ATH-ESW10JPN that are un-burned in yet, the minibox e+ also sounds not as good as the headamp from the zero dac. with bass boost off, and PtoS off, for Mr. Brightside the crash cymbals sound like it came from a toy drumset. Very artificial and unrealistic; Turned on bass boost: bass is overwhelming and bloated. very loose, and difficult to listen to. 


 With my RS-1s, very similar to above.

 When I switch back to the Zero DAC headamp, I feel a sigh of relief that my headphones aren't broken. I know that EFN recommended 500 hours burn in, but they can't sound THAT bad out of the box can they? Really feels like an immense downgrade. I do'nt think it is my source either. I mean, I am using Monster RCA --> 3.5mm connectors that I found lying around, could this be the problem? I hope not. Otherwise, I might want to return or sell these._

 

Sounds like a konked unit to me. If you can wait for a few days, I will write another comprehensive review involving MiniBox-E+ and Lisa III. There's no way a MiniBox-E+ would sound like what you have described - I recommend that you contact Fang (Nankai) and ask him for a swap.

 Good luck


----------



## ath

EFN,

 Wondering where you got the AD8065 AR. Was it mounted on a browndog or did you have to solder it yourself? 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_mrarroyo, since the AD797 didn't work out for my MiniBox-E+, I returned them and got myself a pair of AD8065 AR.

 * I think I may have hit the jackpot combo with this pair of opamps - impossible as it may sound, those opamps actually brought the MiniBox-E+ to another level......

 More info on this once I have further listening trials._


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ath* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_EFN,

 Wondering where you got the AD8065 AR. Was it mounted on a browndog or did you have to solder it yourself?_

 


 Unfortunately yes. AD8065AR is a SMD type opamp and it need to be soldered to the 8 Dip adapter to work with the MiniBox-E+.


----------



## Steed24

How is the soundstage on this compared to other amps. I'm asking this because I want to know how it compares to other portable amps and EFN was using IEMs and I am using Sennheiser HD 555s.


----------



## mrarroyo

Steed24, do a search and you will find that vorlon1 and I did an extensive portable amp review and the MiniBox-E+ was included. I concur w/ EFN and find that the MiniBox-E+ is one of the best portable amps I have heard.

 nauxolo, I am very confused by your post. I just used my D5000 w/ the MiniBox-E+ and the soundstage is HUGE! I took the volume to the max I could stand w/ the D5000 (2) and the sound is full, organic, detailed, clear, great depth, lots of air between the notes. Beautiful just beautiful, so it looks like EFN assesment is correct (you have a konked unit).


----------



## autosound

Yea, the minibox sounds amazing with my MS1's. I just found my ksc75's today and plugged them into the amp and they just sound incredible.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *autosound* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yea, the minibox sounds amazing with my MS1's. I just found my ksc75's today and plugged them into the amp and they just sound incredible._

 


 Yep same here. My KSC-75 which was practically ignored to collect dust previously is now getting regular listening time at home with the MiniBox-E+. initially they don't sound too good but then I realized the KSC-75 wasn't burned in yet at that time. Now with Kramer mod and MiniBox, the sound coming out from that KSC-75 is "almost" high end


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

What if the damaging upper ate the support?

The careful sad trains into the vivacious potential.


----------



## Headphony

Nice review. The Minibox-E+ is the only truly satisfying portable amp I've heard. It doesn't really do anything wrong, which is a big accomplishment for a portable amp. Nice transparency, neutrality, control, tonality, the goods. I've also ówned the Pico and Hornet and prefer the Minibox-E+ by a wide margin. It works very well with PK1's, ESW9's, and others.

 Also: The flatter form factor is quite pocket-friendly.


----------



## EFN

*nauxolo:*
 Glad that you solved the problem.
 Yes some headphone will be a bit more efficient than others and will sound good even without amps specially if the source is already very good sounding.
 Remember this, the amp will only amplify what the source fed them with.

*Headphony:*
 Same sentiment here. You should try opamp rolling (with mono opamps) and you will be surprised how much further the MiniBox-E+ can go.


----------



## analogbox

Hmm... I would love to try it with my PK1 but Head-Direct doesn't seem to have them in stock. Guess I'll just wait till it comes up in FS forum.


----------



## dfkt

I haven't seen a pic of the MBE+ powered on yet... what color is the LED? Blue? Very bright?


----------



## musicmaker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I haven't seen a pic of the MBE+ powered on yet... what color is the LED? Blue? Very bright?_

 

Blue. A bit on the bright side but certainly not bothersome.


----------



## dfkt

Ah, thanks. I might mail them to build me one with a green or red LED then.


----------



## i_don't_know

If I will be using the PFE and JVC HA-RX700 along with my player, a Sony S639F, and I want something I can stow away in a small drawer when not in use (in other words, not a full-size desktop amp), will the Minibox make a significant enough difference to justify buying it?


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *i_don't_know* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I will be using the PFE and JVC HA-RX700 along with my player, a Sony S639F, and I want something I can stow away in a small drawer when not in use (in other words, not a full-size desktop amp), will the Minibox make a significant enough difference to justify buying it?_

 

I have listened to a few amps in the span of two years. Depending on your cans, some will respond better to amplification that the others.

 I have little doubt that the MB+ will not fail to offer refinement to your cans. The thing you should know about good amps is that they DON'T change the sound too much. MB+ is very faithful to the source and the refinement will be apparent in the form of better dynamics, fast transients, well controlled highs, succinct separation and impactful bass.

 Cheers.

 [size=medium]*EDIT:*
 First page updated for opamp rolling results.[/size]



 Thanks!


----------



## lisztian420

That's it! I am pullin the trigger from Taiwan Taipei!!!!


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lisztian420* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's it! I am pullin the trigger from Taiwan Taipei!!!!_

 

Where from? a few friends of mine is looking to buy new ones but Head-Direct haven't received any new stocks yet.

 Please share us the link. Thanks


----------



## lisztian420

OH,... I have a friend who is going to Guangzhou and he will bring it back for me. You can also check out taobao from the chinese website. He told me he can get it for me as he is working between China and Guangzhou at the moment. Maybe I can ask him to see if he can get some for your friends : )


----------



## a19als

I just order one last week! now, waiting...............boring!
 EFN, thank you for excellent review!


----------



## syrou

Hi EFN,

 Where did you get your AD8065AR's from?

 Thanks.


----------



## a19als

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *syrou* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi EFN,

 Where did you get your AD8065AR's from?

 Thanks._

 

[size=large][size=x-large]RS[/size][/size]...................


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *syrou* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi EFN,

 Where did you get your AD8065AR's from?

 Thanks._

 

I got mine from a local supplier, Octave Audio in PJ. Cheers.


----------



## Ricey20

I'm looking on neward for the AD8065AR. Is it the AD8065ARZ that I need for the MB+?


----------



## a19als

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got mine from a local supplier, Octave Audio in PJ. Cheers._

 

*How much for AD8065AR? *


----------



## GTL

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *a19als* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just order one last week! now, waiting...............boring!
 EFN, thank you for excellent review!_

 

Where did you order from?


----------



## a19als

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GTL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where did you order from?_

 


*direct from factory!*


----------



## Ricey20

I ordered mine from Head-direct. They said the latest batch is complete and it was shipped to them already. Not sure if they received it yet though.


----------



## tstarn06

Got an email from Fang yesterday, and they just shipped from China. He's going to test mine this time, before he sends it to me. I figure this time I will get the v.3 with the red push buttons. I am really looking forward to it arriving.


----------



## Ricey20

Oh you ordered another tstarn? I thought you had already gotten a replacement, or was that the one that didn't charge correctly? Did Fang give any ETA on when they will start going out to those who ordered?


----------



## EFN

Actually I am due to send back my MB+ to Fang for a warranty claim. The charging circuit finally died on me. I have given feedback to Head-Direct and I'd expect the new batches will have an improved battery section.

 Duh, I dread the idea of parting ways with my MB+ for over two weeks......


----------



## Ricey20

I hope they improved the battery section. Seems like there's a defect with the charging circuit then.


----------



## tstarn06

No doubt. My first MBE was a year old before it crapped out. The replacement lasted a single charge! So I am on #3. But I believe they have it fixed. If not, it would be a real shame.


----------



## a19als

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *a19als* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*direct from factory!*_

 

*[size=large]here![/size]*


----------



## aegid

Yeah, the charging circuit dying is definitely a bummer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Time to ask for a replacement as well...


----------



## Headphony

My Minibox-E+ doesn't power on anymore after 14 months of intermittent use. Fang says I can have it replaced for 100 USD, as the warranty is expired for 2 months. Is it worth replacing it if I have to get a new one every year or so? I'm disappointed because I really liked the sound from this amp.


----------



## dfkt

Does it power on while connected to AC (i.e. only a dead battery), or is it completely dead?


----------



## Headphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does it power on while connected to AC (i.e. only a dead battery), or is it completely dead?_

 

I just realized that I can get it to power on if I push in the power switch when it is in the up position. It will turn off if the power switch is touched at all after that. Amazing.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Headphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just realized that I can get it to power on if I push in the power switch when it is in the up position. It will turn off if the power switch is touched at all after that. Amazing._

 

My own unit is being sent to Fang for a warranty claim. Already I missed the sound. If you have to pay $100 to get a new unit I'd say it's a good deal. my only hope is that the delay in receiving new stocks mean that Three Stones have done some research to improve the battery charging durability. I am looking forward to receive my replacement


----------



## Ricey20

I got my Minibox from Head-direct yesterday. Have you guys noticed any channel imbalance with the Ptos on? My left side is a tad softer when it's on I think. Maybe my PFE's just don't like the added impedance. Do you guys typically leave the PToS on or off?

 I also tried the AD797 and it also has some weird noises when you turn the volume wheel, but only if nothing is playing. If something is playing there are no noises at all. The AD797 really does have a bit darker/smoother sound than stock and AD8065, its a nice change. Using the AD8065 right now though.


----------



## EFN

AD797 does not work with the 3rd Gen MiniBox-E+. You will be fine with the AD8065AR. 

 I think the PFE will be better off with the PtoS switched off.


----------



## Ricey20

Did you notice any channel imbalances with it turned on EFN?


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ricey20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you notice any channel imbalances with it turned on EFN?_

 

Nope. works fine on mine


----------



## Ricey20

right now I'm testing the charge circuit. I charged mine when I first got it and the light turned off after 1-2 hours too so it could be a faulty circuit again. Add in the fact I have channel imbalance, more noticeable with PToS on but I think VERY SLIGHTLY even off, I wonder if I got a pure lemon unit or a returned one

 Edit: My charge circuit seems fine, for now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Still the channel imbalance irks me so I'm going to see if I can get a replacement


----------



## qusp

hmm.... quality control I keep wondering about getting one of these just to see for myself, but stories like this keep turning me off


----------



## Ricey20

actually, after more thorough testing with different songs, actually the faults I thought that were faults weren't actually faults at all. Its actually a pro, as it seems the separation is so uncanny and unlike a portable amp, some of my tracks that were recorded to have a more prominent side really shined through, making me think that there was a channel imbalance (had to AB with my O2, speakers, etc). A plus I must say, at first it really confused me, lol. So far I have about 20 hours burn in, and even at that little amount, this thing bests my Pico, Mini3, T4, E5. None of them even come close IMO, it really is unlike a portable amp, yet, IT IS! and I can't imagine it getting better, which its supposed to with more burn in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As for the AD797, it works, just soft weird noises when turning volume up or down with nothing playing. It sort of sounds like the opposite of the AD8065, as in its not quite as detailed or punchy, but it has this warm/dark smoothness to it that sounds really nice, a good change if you get tired of the stock or AD8065.

 I'll report back on the charge circuit tho, as it doesn't seem to be as advertised at least. After completely draining the battery the charge light turned off after 4-5 hours, after I charged it the first time for 2 hours it lasted about 15-20 hours. So 4-5 hours I'm hoping equates to at least 30-40 hours. This is with bass and PToS off, PFE at volume setting 3. Still not quite the rated 60, but still good. Anyway, we'll see.

 Still, please disregard the channel imbalance thing I reported. Sorry for falsely reporting that before fully doing more tests. This amp sounds incredible, that's all you need to know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Its THE only amp that I own where I could turn off ALL of the effects on the D2 (EQ, BBE) and have the D2 still sound awesome (even with all the stuff on, I thought my Clip sounded better, no more!). All my other amps, including my Pico (which I already sold), made the D2 sound like it was missing something. Likewise when paired with my clip. I just use the D2 because it sort of matches the size of the Minibox better, and now that it sounds good, the added storage and folder browsing is nice to have 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 All I need now is a 16gb Fuze to strap to this thing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sooo EFN, try any other opamps that I should give a whirl too?


----------



## qusp

its not so much the channel imbalance that i'm talking about, although of course that would be a worry; its just that a couple of poeple in the last few pages have had issues, EFN has sent his back for RMA, musikmaker also had to send his back after having it for a few days, a couple of pages back there was a bad review that EFN blamed on a faulty unit. so all in all it seems like its rather hit and miss. not a quality I look for in my purchases. This is just from skimming through and I havent looked hard. the external build quality and jacks look suspect and apparently the quality control for inside is similar. Such a pity, because its obvious that some units are very good sounding, but for how long?? Until these issues with manufacture are sorted out i'm not willing to take the risk


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ricey20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_actually, after more thorough testing with different songs, actually the faults I thought that were faults weren't actually faults at all. Its actually a pro, as it seems the separation is so uncanny and unlike a portable amp, some of my tracks that were recorded to have a more prominent side really shined through, making me think that there was a channel imbalance (had to AB with my O2, speakers, etc). A plus I must say, at first it really confused me, lol. So far I have about 20 hours burn in, and even at that little amount, this thing bests my Pico, Mini3, T4, E5. None of them even come close IMO, it really is unlike a portable amp, yet, IT IS! and I can't imagine it getting better, which its supposed to with more burn in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As for the AD797, it works, just soft weird noises when turning volume up or down with nothing playing. It sort of sounds like the opposite of the AD8065, as in its not quite as detailed or punchy, but it has this warm/dark smoothness to it that sounds really nice, a good change if you get tired of the stock or AD8065.

 I'll report back on the charge circuit tho, as it doesn't seem to be as advertised at least. After completely draining the battery the charge light turned off after 4-5 hours, after I charged it the first time for 2 hours it lasted about 15-20 hours. So 4-5 hours I'm hoping equates to at least 30-40 hours. This is with bass and PToS off, PFE at volume setting 3. Still not quite the rated 60, but still good. Anyway, we'll see.

 Still, please disregard the channel imbalance thing I reported. Sorry for falsely reporting that before fully doing more tests. This amp sounds incredible, that's all you need to know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Its THE only amp that I own where I could turn off ALL of the effects on the D2 (EQ, BBE) and have the D2 still sound awesome (even with all the stuff on, I thought my Clip sounded better, no more!). All my other amps, including my Pico (which I already sold), made the D2 sound like it was missing something. Likewise when paired with my clip. I just use the D2 because it sort of matches the size of the Minibox better, and now that it sounds good, the added storage and folder browsing is nice to have 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 All I need now is a 16gb Fuze to strap to this thing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sooo EFN, try any other opamps that I should give a whirl too? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes the advertising claim on the power drain is off the mark. But even so I am still VERY happy for the 8-10 hours of blissful music pumped out of this stellar amp. Despite the shortcomings in the power charging circuit, I have faith that the newer batch will have them resolved. Aside from my heavily modded STAX SRM-001 MK2, this is the only other amp that I will treasure and keep for good. So I am waiting eagerly for my MiniBox-E+ to return to me with the charging circuit fixed.

 While waiting, I was lucky enough to have the company of a DecWare Zen Head ZH1 (Rev 5) and Penguin Amp Caffeine to drive my ER-4P. And yesterday I picked up a very special three channel CMOY which blown me away with some serious sonic performance - so much so that I am convinced that the CMOY is actually treading the same segment with the likes of MiniBox-E+, Lisa III and SR-71. You will hear more on this incredible CMOY from me in days to come.

 Cheers.


----------



## ath

EFN,

 The runtime is for 8610 isn't it? I own Govibe v3 that I use with 8066AR. The battery drain was significant with 8066 compared to 8620 on that amp. 

 I got mine on wednesday, other than the fact that the lettering on the front face 'Pow' the w is missing already which was kind of disappointing. 

 Haven't had much time to listen with a tooth infection, fever and a root canal done over the past week. But the little time I spent, I agree that this amp is really good. I am going to keep the stock opamp for some time as it sounds pretty good to me. I hope to spend more time later next week. 

 Mine is a v3 with push buttons. I kind of like the old switch type though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ( old school)


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ath* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_EFN,

 The runtime is for 8610 isn't it? I own Govibe v3 that I use with 8066AR. The battery drain was significant with 8066 compared to 8620 on that amp. 

 I got mine on wednesday, other than the fact that the lettering on the front face 'Pow' the w is missing already which was kind of disappointing. 

 Haven't had much time to listen with a tooth infection, fever and a root canal done over the past week. But the little time I spent, I agree that this amp is really good. I am going to keep the stock opamp for some time as it sounds pretty good to me. I hope to spend more time later next week. 

 Mine is a v3 with push buttons. I kind of like the old switch type though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ( old school)_

 

Aaah. Congrats on your new toy buddy. And get well soon. In the mean while cook that MB-E+ of yours to perfection and she will blew your brains away once the magical 400 hours have passed.

 Yes the AD8066AR and AD8065AR are power hungry. My modded STAX SRM-001 MK2 runs on them and the battery drain was like TWO hours max for a pair of 3.6V Ultrafire Li-ions. I have to use a 30'000 mAH 5V Li-ions to sate them hungry STAX LOL!


----------



## Ricey20

Heh maybe that explains the battery life I'm getting. Not too shabby then I guess.

 So, where did you get that 3 channel CMOY from?


----------



## mrarroyo

Good to hear the MiniBox-E+ is getting all this love! IMO it is a wonderful sounding amp that sells for a very reasonable price. I have loaned my old style unit to a friend w/ 4 other amps and he loves it. As far as battery life I swear I get over 20 hours of use w/ the AD8610, will verify upon the amp's return.


----------



## Ricey20

Well, here's a update on the battery life. I got 16 hours with the bass and Ptos off, volume at 4 with PFEs. This is with the AD8065 though, so maybe this opamp really drains the battery compared to stock. I'll pop in the stock OP8610 and see if it lasts much longer, then its the AD797's turn. For 5 hours of charging, 16 hours play doesn't seem like a whole lot. If there's a really large difference in battery life with the OP8610 vs AD8065, I may just stick with stock


----------



## ath

Ricey20,

 It is the quality not the quantity of enjoyment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. 16 hours seems pretty reasonable. It will last a whole week for me. Family and work take most of the time for now. 

 the amp has been running since 2.30 PM today. I'll let you know how long it lasts with the stock opamp.


----------



## Ricey20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ath* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ricey20,

 It is the quality not the quantity of enjoyment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. 16 hours seems pretty reasonable. It will last a whole week for me. Family and work take most of the time for now. 

 the amp has been running since 2.30 PM today. I'll let you know how long it lasts with the stock opamp._

 

lol maybe. I'm just curious how big the difference is between the stock and 8065. We'll see


----------



## ath

Quick update...

 25 hours and still going strong.... using stock opamps bass on / ptos off volume is set at 2 plenty loud for Westone 3's


----------



## tstarn06

I believe my replacement MBE+ is shipping today or tomorrow. Really anxious to get this new one. Hope the battery issue is fixed once and for all. My guess is I will get the pushbutton version. Not much we can do about that. Looking forward to trying it our with the Westone 3s again and the IE8s as well.


----------



## ath

It lasted 27 hours for stock opamp with bass on. This works well for me. I only hope the charging does not become an issue.


----------



## Ricey20

I got 26-27 hours using the stock opamp too. Guess the 8065 takes off about 10 hours from the battery, pretty big difference. Least I know to switch to stock if I need the extra hours for some reason.


----------



## dfkt

Do you guys get these run times after the first charge? Usually Li-Ion batteries need a few charge/discharge cycles to reach their full potential.


----------



## Ricey20

the 26-27 hours I got with the stock opamps was after the 3rd full discharge/charge cycle.


----------



## ath

dfkt,

 Does your minibox run longer than the posted hours? I just got mine so I guess it should a few cycles for the Li-ion to work as it should.


----------



## dfkt

I still haven't gotten mine yet - sure hope it arrives this week.


----------



## EFN

Dang! you guys are SOOOOO lucky. I acn only dream to have 9 hours runtime. Let's see how it goes when my MB-E+ returns


----------



## Ricey20

Yep, this amp is a keeper that's for sure. I can just imagine what you had to go through, with having to send it back for repair and not being able to listen to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Also, did you ever say where you got that 3 channel CMOY from?


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ricey20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep, this amp is a keeper that's for sure. I can just imagine what you had to go through, with having to send it back for repair and not being able to listen to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Also, did you ever say where you got that 3 channel CMOY from? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The three channel CMOY was built by my good buddy here locally. I practically have to wrestle it from him. And loving it with each passing hours. It's an 18V powered device as well like the MiniBox-E+ and Lisa III so sonically it packs lotsa beef and juices.


----------



## dungie

Hi, I've read about opamp rolling and it's quite confusing for me since E+ specs say that it requires DIP8 opamps, and the best option for rolling is AD8065AR which is SO8. EFN, have you been using any kind of adapter for these opamps? If yes then what exactly adapter have you checked them with?


----------



## musicmaker

you'll need to solder the AD8065AR on a SO8 to 8 pin DIP adapter.


----------



## average_joe

Has anyone compared he iBasso D10 with the E+? Also, would the OPA627 work in the E+, as that is my current favorite op amp in my sound card's amp?


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *average_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone compared he iBasso D10 with the E+? Also, would the OPA627 work in the E+, as that is my current favorite op amp in my sound card's amp?_

 


 iBasso D10 strength is being a DAC/Amp in one small package. You should PM mrarroyo for comparison because he owned both the MB-E+ and D10.

 Yes the OPA627 will work because it is a single opamp. In fact I have a pair of OPA627BP in hand but didn't get a chance to try them out yet because I have to send my MB-E+ back for warranty claim. Hopefully when I get it back I can post some impressions.

 Cheers.


----------



## tstarn06

Take heart EFN. Mine came today, and wow, did I miss it. I immediately hooked up all of my best IEMs (PFEs, W3s, IE8s and a new pair of Yuin G1As I have for review) via my Touch LOD and OMG. I can't get over the SQ it squeezes out of the Phonaks (do you agree, Ricey?). Amazing synergy. Same with all the other phones. If there is a better pure amp (no DAC) value, I would be stunned. Let's hope Three Stones has worked out that darn battery thing this time. Hope yours arrives soon EFN.


----------



## musicmaker

i had to put my review on hold and send the MB-E+ for a warranty claim. Hope I get a replacement unit soon.


----------



## dfkt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tstarn06* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine came today, [...] OMG._

 

Same sentiment here.


----------



## average_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_iBasso D10 strength is being a DAC/Amp in one small package. You should PM mrarroyo for comparison because he owned both the MB-E+ and D10.

 Yes the OPA627 will work because it is a single opamp. In fact I have a pair of OPA627BP in hand but didn't get a chance to try them out yet because I have to send my MB-E+ back for warranty claim. Hopefully when I get it back I can post some impressions.

 Cheers._

 

I will PM mrarroyo, thanks! 

 Wow, sounds like lots of people are having issues with the E+. Is it as widespread as I am reading?


----------



## Ricey20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tstarn06* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Take heart EFN. Mine came today, and wow, did I miss it. I immediately hooked up all of my best IEMs (PFEs, W3s, IE8s and a new pair of Yuin G1As I have for review) via my Touch LOD and OMG. I can't get over the SQ it squeezes out of the Phonaks (do you agree, Ricey?). Amazing synergy. Same with all the other phones. If there is a better pure amp (no DAC) value, I would be stunned. Let's hope Three Stones has worked out that darn battery thing this time. Hope yours arrives soon EFN._

 

Yep, I love this thing with my PFEs, should have my ES3X next week to try with it too.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *average_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will PM mrarroyo, thanks! 

 Wow, sounds like lots of people are having issues with the E+. Is it as widespread as I am reading?_

 


 This only applies to the early 3rd Gen batch. The first MB-E+ with push buttons.

 We can only hope the current batch Head-Direct received will not have the battery issue anymore.




 tstarn06, happy for you buddy. Let's hope you are enjoying them now more than sending them back for warranty claims LOL.


----------



## tstarn06

Thanks EFN. Can't believe I forgot how great this amp sounded.

 Actually, I had the battery charging issue with the original models too (the toggle switch style). The first one lasted a little over a year, the second one (a refurb, I figure) lasted just one charging cycle. I believe Head-Direct let the manufacturer know that this was unacceptable, and these new ones will not suffer the same fate. At least we all hope so, right?


----------



## mrarroyo

Man, the number of users of this amp has sure gone through the roof. Rightfully so since it sounds so bloody good.

 I am also lucky in that I have had my unit for quite a while and the battery has held up great, currently mine is out on loan with dw6928 who I hope chimes in w/ his opinion. Hint: It was his favorite of 5 portable amps I sent him. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 average_joe, as an amp only the MiniBox-E+ is the better sounding unit. As EFN wrote above the D10 shines as a great Dac/Amp combo.


----------



## visia

Any news on when its going to be back in stock? Is there any other place to get it other than Head-direct?


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *visia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any news on when its going to be back in stock? Is there any other place to get it other than Head-direct?_

 

As you can see above, a few folks have received their amps. So this can only mean the MB-E+ is back on stock at Head-Direct. I suspect that TTVJ would receive new stocks as well


----------



## ChroniCali

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As you can see above, a few folks have received their amps. So this can only mean the MB-E+ is back on stock at Head-Direct. I suspect that TTVJ would receive new stocks as well_

 

Wow it seems like it is a LOT cheaper at TTVJ. Why is that?

 Anyone have any comparisons between this and a Pico amp?


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ChroniCali* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow it seems like it is a LOT cheaper at TTVJ. Why is that?

 Anyone have any comparisons between this and a Pico amp?_

 

TTVJ is still showing the old price.

 Compared with Pico? IMO no contest. I have heard from three owners of Pico claiming that the MB-E+ is way better sounding. In fact if you read my other review, the MB-E+ competes with Lisa III Std head on. I was convinced enough to trade off my Lisa III and keep the MB-E+


----------



## mrarroyo

I know it is hard to believe that an inexpensive amp can sound so good. But it does! I have loaned my unit to various (3) users here in Head-Fi and they all agree it sounds awesome.


----------



## dfkt

I can't praise the general sound quality of this amp enough, but there are some serious showstoppers as well. I wonder if I'm alone with them, or if other people experience the same:

 - Deafening click/pop at turning on. Loud enough I fear that either my eardrum or the phone's drivers are getting shot. Louder with lower impedance phones. The volume dial doesn't matter in that case.
 - Insane hiss with low impedance/high sensitivity IEMs (when P-to-S isn't engaged). Even worse than the T4 or FiiO.
 - The battery looks weird. It has quite a bulge at one end, while the other end is flat. I've heard of expanding Li-Ion cells, but not sure if that's the case here.


----------



## tstarn06

Hmm, I have never turned it on with phones on or in my ears (always turn it on ahead of time). Until now. Okay, I just turned it on with the G1As on my ears, and it made a slight noise, but I would not call it loud at all. Same when I turn it off.

 When I switched to the Westone 3s (much higher sensitivity), the noise was louder, but it didn't hurt my ears. Volume was at 6. Only thing I can say is turn it off and on without the phones on or in your ears. Doubt it is a sign of a malfunction, but I could be wrong.

 I hear some background noise with the Westone 3 when the PtoS switch is pushed in (which is not engaged, I believe, because it's the way the bass button works). But it's not hiss nor would I call it insane. It's more like a light ticking sound, and as you note, it disappears when you engage the PtoS (or the music starts). It's not audible during quiet passages (I put on some quiet classical to listen for it).

 I didn't open mine, so can't comment on the battery.

 Anyone else? EFN? Miguel?


----------



## dfkt

Here's a few RMAA tests:

Minibox-E+ - All Modes (nice and consistent, bass boost and P-to-S don't do anything bad)
Minibox-E+ - Volumes (full volume distorts a bit more than volume 8, but rather negligible)
Headsix, FiiO E3, iBasso T4, Minibox-E+ (overall very good)


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_- Deafening click/pop at turning on. Loud enough I fear that either my eardrum or the phone's drivers are getting shot. Louder with lower impedance phones. The volume dial doesn't matter in that case.
 - Insane hiss with low impedance/high sensitivity IEMs (when P-to-S isn't engaged). Even worse than the T4 or FiiO.
 - The battery looks weird. It has quite a bulge at one end, while the other end is flat. I've heard of expanding Li-Ion cells, but not sure if that's the case here._

 

- Through my ER-4S, yes I do hear strong click/pop sound when turned on. But I am also getting this from all of the 9V-18V amps. More apparent on 18Vs. The Lisa III and an 18V CMOY I use all did the same thing.

 - Since my ER-4 was a 100oHm IEM, I didn't get those hissing. But I take it all of your IEMs are 16oHm yes?

 - Hey, please take a shot of the battery, I am curious on how they look now. Thanks. Perhaps someone can tell you if this is a "Pregnant Battery" case or not


 ** And thanks for the RMAA tests. Those are very useful.


----------



## ath

I left the charger on the amp for a stretch of time ( over the past week). I have been running the amp non-stop. Last night I noticed that the charging light was flickering ( when it should have been fully charged and the charger light turned off). Wondering if the charging section of the amp is messed up!!! oh! by the way, I popped in 8065 and boy do they sound good. Thanks for the tip EFN!

 When I opened it up for replacing the opamps, the battery on mine seemed alright ( like a pack of gum ) I did not notice any bumps as described by dfkt.

 Another question is that the screw heads seemed to be stripped ( that's how it came!!! and I was not too happy about it) . Where could I get those screws? does anyone know if radioshack carry those?


----------



## dfkt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_- Through my ER-4S, yes I do hear strong click/pop sound when turned on. But I am also getting this from all of the 9V-18V amps. More apparent on 18Vs. The Lisa III and an 18V CMOY I use all did the same thing._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tstarn06* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm, I have never turned it on with phones on or in my ears (always turn it on ahead of time). Until now. Okay, I just turned it on with the G1As on my ears, and it made a slight noise, but I would not call it loud at all. Same when I turn it off.

 When I switched to the Westone 3s (much higher sensitivity), the noise was louder, but it didn't hurt my ears. Volume was at 6. Only thing I can say is turn it off and on without the phones on or in your ears._

 

Hmmm, my 9V Headsix is quite a bit better behaved. It has a noticeable startup click, but not an 'explosion', like the MBE+. I'm actually more worried about my UE11 than about my ears. Unplugging the phones every time I don't use the amp is kind of a hassle, and not so great for the plug/jack either. But yes, anything 50 Ohm and above is harmless.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_- Since my ER-4 was a 100oHm IEM, I didn't get those hissing. But I take it all of your IEMs are 16oHm yes?_

 

No, only the two I use the most are ultra-sensitive/efficient, the UE11 and the SE530. The PFE, RE0, etc are well behaved. I've been badmouthing ridiculous overblown specs like UE and Shure use all the time... let's hope these companies will see the light and start making phones that actually get along with amps and players.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_- Hey, please take a shot of the battery, I am curious on how they look now. Thanks. Perhaps someone can tell you if this is a "Pregnant Battery" case or not_

 

I'm actually a bit scared of opening the shabby case again. The screws don't really inspire confidence (same experience as ATH in the post above). The way they're threaded into the case is very iffy looking, not sure how many tighten/loosen cycles they could take. But I will consider taking it apart again.


----------



## mrarroyo

The battery on my MiniBox-E+ w/ AD797 looks like:






 Many amps make a pop when you turn them on and the headphones are connected.


----------



## musicmaker

Had to send my MB-E+ for a warranty claim. Fang sent me a replacement unit very fast ! Burning in as I type this. Here's something I noticed. My previous unit didn't like the AD797 opamps. There was a screeching sound with it when I turned the volume control. The new unit I received seems to work just fine with the AD797 !! This is a really nice opamp for the miniBox-E+. It has a warmish presentation with excellent bass.


----------



## decur

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *musicmaker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Had to send my MB-E+ for a warranty claim. Fang sent me a replacement unit very fast ! Burning in as I type this. Here's something I noticed. My previous unit didn't like the AD797 opamps. There was a screeching sound with it when I turned the volume control. The new unit I received seems to work just fine with the AD797 !! This is a really nice opamp for the miniBox-E+. It has a warmish presentation with excellent bass._

 

hi-i just recieved my pushbutton minibox E+ (new from latest batch) and i want to try ad797 however, i see 4 versions of this opamp. ad797anz,arz,brz,and brz-reel7 im wondering which one to get? also,can i mount the ad797 on a brown-dog adapter like the so8 to 8 pin adapter,like the one used for the ad8065ar? for easy opamp rolling between 8065ar/ad797/ and stock opamps.


----------



## decur

actually,by looking at miguels inside pics it looks like the anz version without having to use a brown dog for ad797
 great pictures!!


----------



## musicmaker

decur, AD797AN is the one you want. Its a DIP so no adapter needed. Just plug and play.


----------



## decur

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *musicmaker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_decur, AD797AN is the one you want. Its a DIP so no adapter needed. Just plug and play._

 

awesome!thanks


----------



## Kclone

If I understand correctly, this may be the best amp for the Ety ER4S users as Feng is an ety fan and voiced the amp or taylored the amp to make the ER4S sound it's best?


----------



## dfkt

This could very likely be the case, especially considering the P-to-S button.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kclone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I understand correctly, this may be the best amp for the Ety ER4S users as Feng is an ety fan and voiced the amp or taylored the amp to make the ER4S sound it's best?_

 

That is correct


----------



## JBrigs

After reading the review and this thread I have become interested in this amp but does anyone happen to know how this amp sounds with the SE530's? thx


----------



## Kclone

JBrigs, I think I am going to ge this amp since I have the Ety's on the way and I already own the SE530s and if you can wait a few days or so I will try and post my impressions for you. I will be using the Itouch and Imod for sources. Hey maybe I will do a comparison with the P-51 Mustang. By the way have you considered the P-51 with the SE530s? They are a good match.


----------



## JBrigs

Kclone, Thank you that would be awesome! I also own the Itouch and it is what i would be using. As for the P-51 i would love to have! .....but i think it is a bit out of my price range unfourtionally


----------



## dfkt

A sad occasion for my 1500th post, but it seems the MBE+ battery died on me, after less than 20 hours of use, and 2 partial charges. 

 I should have learned my lesson about Chinese quality, after my experiences with Mylarone, iBasso, etc...

 EDIT: It lasted ~15 minutes on a full charge. Now I charged it again, charging light went off after 5 minutes. Now I'm past 20 minutes on that charge... let's see how it goes.


----------



## musicmaker

dfkt, sorry to hear about the battery issue. It sucks. I've been there. However, my unit magically started working normally again. Not wanting to risk it, I sent the unit and got a brand new replacement unit under warranty. I'm told the battery/charging-circuit issue has been resolved with the new batch but let's see.

 The good news is that Fang is very responsive. I'm sure he will make things right if your unit is under warranty.


----------



## Kclone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A sad occasion for my 1500th post, but it seems the MBE+ battery died on me, after less than 20 hours of use, and 2 partial charges. 

 I should have learned my lesson about Chinese quality, after my experiences with Mylarone, iBasso, etc...

 EDIT: It lasted ~15 minutes on a full charge. Now I charged it again, charging light went off after 5 minutes. Now I'm past 20 minutes on that charge... let's see how it goes._

 

Ouch! I just placed an order with Head Direct the other day, I hope I have better luck.


----------



## tstarn06

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A sad occasion for my 1500th post, but it seems the MBE+ battery died on me, after less than 20 hours of use, and 2 partial charges. 

 I should have learned my lesson about Chinese quality, after my experiences with Mylarone, iBasso, etc...

 EDIT: It lasted ~15 minutes on a full charge. Now I charged it again, charging light went off after 5 minutes. Now I'm past 20 minutes on that charge... let's see how it goes._

 

That issue you describe is exactly what happened with both of the MBE+ amps I returned. The first one lasted a year, the second one, for a single charge cycle. Sounds like Three Stones hasn't figured it out based on your experience.

 Let's hope the issue gets resolved once and for all, because it would be a shame if the MBE+ doesn't go from a DIY amp to a real product (as Fang explains in a lower post).

 I am running the battery out on mine right now, and see what happens when it comes time to recharge it. Fang tested mine, since I live in the U.S. The others, including dfkt's, were shipped directly from China. But even so, the battery issue must be fixed.


----------



## charlie0904

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A sad occasion for my 1500th post, but it seems the MBE+ battery died on me, after less than 20 hours of use, and 2 partial charges. 

 I should have learned my lesson about Chinese quality, after my experiences with Mylarone, iBasso, etc...

 EDIT: It lasted ~15 minutes on a full charge. Now I charged it again, charging light went off after 5 minutes. Now I'm past 20 minutes on that charge... let's see how it goes._

 

this is bad.... china products have serious bad QC problems.

 this amp might not be my choice for my phonaks.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A sad occasion for my 1500th post, but it seems the MBE+ battery died on me, after less than 20 hours of use, and 2 partial charges. 

 I should have learned my lesson about Chinese quality, after my experiences with Mylarone, iBasso, etc...

 EDIT: It lasted ~15 minutes on a full charge. Now I charged it again, charging light went off after 5 minutes. Now I'm past 20 minutes on that charge... let's see how it goes._

 

Sorry to hear that. If I were you I would have already sent the unit back for a swap the moment I saw the "pregnant battery".


 Anyway I am still waiting for my replacement unit


----------



## Nankai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A sad occasion for my 1500th post, but it seems the MBE+ battery died on me, after less than 20 hours of use, and 2 partial charges. 

 I should have learned my lesson about Chinese quality, after my experiences with Mylarone, iBasso, etc...

 EDIT: It lasted ~15 minutes on a full charge. Now I charged it again, charging light went off after 5 minutes. Now I'm past 20 minutes on that charge... let's see how it goes._

 

Yours are not new battery, and I did not have a chance to test it by myself (directly ship from our China branch). Actually I am thinking of sending new battery to you guys. In addition, poor package is another reason of high defective rate. We will try to do better packing.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *charlie0904* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_this is bad.... china products have serious bad QC problems.

 this amp might not be my choice for my phonaks. :atsmile:_

 

Minibox-e+ is a DIY product initially, and I am trying my best to help this DIY product become real product. There might be some difficulties, but I am trying to solve this. I don't think minibox amps have any similiarity to those juck at Walmart. 

 Btw, China are making these products which are not bad at all:


+ YouTube Video​ _*ERROR:* If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed._ 




+ YouTube Video​ _*ERROR:* If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed._


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nankai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yours are not new battery, and I did not have a chance to test it by myself (directly ship from our China branch). I am thinking of sending new battery to you guys. In addition, poor package is another reason of high defective rate. We will try to do better packing._

 

Dear Fang, thanks for dropping by. It is very refreshing to see a vendor taking closer interest in listening to and taking actions based on users response.

 This bodes very well indeed for all of us and I do not have doubt that the more responsive you become, the more trust we will have for Head-Direct.



 PS:
 Now that we are talking.....I do hope to see my replacement unit soon


----------



## tstarn06

Thanks Fang for letting us know what's going on. I am going to run my MBE+ battery down and see if it recharges properly. I am still on the initial charge from receiving it (so it is getting some good hours, now at 20+). Keeping fingers crossed that the battery problem is going to get resolved. I don't want to give up on the MBE+ for sure. So thanks for being so responsive.


----------



## dfkt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nankai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yours are not new battery, and I did not have a chance to test it by myself (directly ship from our China branch). Actually I am thinking of sending new battery to you guys. In addition, poor package is another reason of high defective rate. We will try to do better packing._

 

Thanks for your reply, Fang. I wish the best for your efforts in bringing the MBE+ to the next level. This amp's sound quality deserves a matching build quality.

 UPDATE: After that incident yesterday with the battery giving out after 15 minutes, and the following 5 minute recharge, it now played well over 2 hours again. Weird.


----------



## tstarn06

Just discharged mine, recharged it, and am now playing it to burn in the pair of PK3s I bought recently. Interesting to see how long it goes. If it hits the 20+ hour mark again, then I guess this one is one of the "good" batch. Which will make me very happy.


----------



## dfkt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, please take a shot of the battery, I am curious on how they look now. Thanks. Perhaps someone can tell you if this is a "Pregnant Battery" case or not._

 

Since the MBE+ is now completely dead and doesn't play without AC at all, I took it apart again. Maybe the photos are of some use to some.

 The bulging part of the battery is soft and squishy.


----------



## tstarn06

Weird.

 Update on my MBE battery situation. It has been playing without the AC for several hours, no shut down, no problems so far. I am going to let it run until it expires again, and see where it stands. Need to torture test it a bit, see if it fails. If not, I hope it's got some legs this time (even longer then the year the first one lasted).


----------



## dfkt

Tom, you got your new one directly from Fang in the USA?


----------



## EFN

dfkt, I would have jumped on Head-Direct the moment I saw that "pregnant" battery. It is a classic problem that may happen to Li-Ions and I have seen similar cases happening to iPod Photo 4G, Rio Karma and some iRivers. In fact the problem was quite notorious with the Rio Karma that some HDD even stopped working altogether due to the pressure applied by the pregnant battery.

 Go ahead man, ask Fang to speed up a replacement unit for you because that is definitely NOT normal.


----------



## dfkt

I'd be glad if Fang sends a new battery, as he said - which I would appreciate a lot more than the whole RMA dance. Being in Europe and all, this would take a long time. Soldering >> RMA'ing.


----------



## mrarroyo

dfkt, good luck w/ the new battery. Hope then the amp performs as good as it can. IMO it is a very nice sounding unit.


----------



## tstarn06

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tom, you got your new one directly from Fang in the USA?_

 

Yes, and he tested it for 24 hours before sending it out. I didn't open mine up, too intimidated, but so far, it's on the third charge (it came fully charged) and is running for about 10 hours without a hiccup. Keeping fingers crossed.


----------



## Kclone

Does Head-Direct send out emails when packages get shipped? I ordered a couple of days ago and have not received a shipping confirmation yet.


----------



## dfkt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_dfkt, good luck w/ the new battery. Hope then the amp performs as good as it can. IMO it is a very nice sounding unit._

 

Thanks Miguel, it indeed sounds very nice - and I wouldn't want to miss out on that sound, now that I heard it.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tstarn06* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, and he tested it for 24 hours before sending it out. I didn't open mine up, too intimidated, but so far, it's on the third charge (it came fully charged) and is running for about 10 hours without a hiccup. Keeping fingers crossed._

 

That's good to hear. May it serve you well for years to come.


----------



## decur

i am stunned by how great this little amp sounds! i cant wait to roll opamps as soon as my opamps arrive! i hope this battery issue gets resolved as well!
 this amp sounds soooo much better than alot of pricier portables out there!


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decur* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i am stunned by how great this little amp sounds! i cant wait to roll opamps as soon as my opamps arrive! i hope this battery issue gets resolved as well!
 this amp sounds soooo much better than alot of pricier portables out there!_

 

Dang! how I missed my MB-E+....I hope Fang can send me a replacement unit ASAP!


----------



## Kclone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kclone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does Head-Direct send out emails when packages get shipped? I ordered a couple of days ago and have not received a shipping confirmation yet._

 

Still have not had any notifications or anything yet, is that normal?


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kclone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Still have not had any notifications or anything yet, is that normal?_

 


 You should PM Nankai to get confirmation.


----------



## mrarroyo

I have my MiniBox-E+ out on loan, the user is loving it. Do look forward to getting it back. Although in all honesty it gives me an opportunity to try some of the other portable amps I have.


----------



## EFN

WOOOT....I received PM from Nankai stating that my MB-E+ is enroute back to me! dang I missed her so much.


----------



## Kclone

Head-Direct emailed me, new batch will be ready in two or three weeks. They pretty much sell out of every batch right away. I think the last batched only lasted a little over a week.


----------



## mrarroyo

I can understand why they sell so quickly. Sound baby! very good sound at a reasonable price.


----------



## decur

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can understand why they sell so quickly. Sound baby! very good sound at a reasonable price._

 

x2 this little amp is top notch at a steal of a price!!


----------



## tstarn06

Happy to report my replacement is on the 4th charge, no hiccups yet. Hope this one takes. A great little amp.


----------



## Bolardito

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tstarn06* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Happy to report my replacement is on the 4th charge, no hiccups yet. Hope this one takes. A great little amp._

 

How is the synergy with the IE8?


----------



## jrazmar

sorry for being out of topic but can someone tell me what an opamp means and what rolling an opamp means. i'm planning to buy this amp in the near future to drive my PFE and Fuze. btw, with the battery issue of MBE+ and the crack issue of the PFE (thank God I don't have with my black PFE), I can foresee without hearing that they are meant for each other (LOL and LOL again) not to mention both are marvelous creation to be enjoyed.


----------



## dfkt

Operational amplifier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 The MBE+ has socketed opamps, meaning you can swap them for a different brand. It might alter the sound a tiny bit.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jrazmar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sorry for being out of topic but can someone tell me what an opamp means and what rolling an opamp means. i'm planning to buy this amp in the near future to drive my PFE and Fuze. btw, with the battery issue of MBE+ and the crack issue of the PFE (thank God I don't have with my black PFE), I can foresee without hearing that they are meant for each other (LOL and LOL again) not to mention both are marvelous creation to be enjoyed._

 

The opamp is that tiny black square things with eight feet that you plug into the corresponding socket - in layman's term they will "influence" the sound output and in this regard makes it possible to tune the amp according to your taste. Opamp rolling simply means getting a lot of those opamps and keep swapping them to oblivion.....hehehehhe


----------



## AmericasTeam

I could be purchasing this unit very soon. I have been eyeing this unit and the P-51 Mustang. I hope the battery/charging issues get resolved as it makes me a little nervous to place an order. I'll keep my fingers crossed!


----------



## Kclone

AmericasTeam, what phone are you going to use with the amp? I have the P-51 and have a Minibox-E+ coming when the next batch is ready so I will be able to compare, just not for awhile though (until I get the minibox).


----------



## markm

Minibox E+ is very excellent. Especially for er4. Now, I'm using AD797 for Minibox E+ and it sounds great. But lots of can fans told me not to use AD797 cos there is some noise. Maybe mine is old version so there's no problem. Next I wanna try OPA627BM. Friends told me that's very good.


----------



## mrarroyo

markm, glad to hear the AD797 is working in your Minibox-E+


----------



## dw6928

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have my MiniBox-E+ out on loan, the user is loving it. Do look forward to getting it back. Although in all honesty it gives me an opportunity to try some of the other portable amps I have. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I am the lucky person who MrArroyo loaned his beloved MiniBox E+ and he is completely accurate: I am loving it and will hate to see it go.


----------



## EFN

It's really gut wrenching to know that my MiniBox-E+ is on the way back to me....and I find myself checking the USPS tracking for the tell tale sign of the parcel to land in Malaysia.....the wait is killing me


----------



## jrazmar

dfkt & EFN, thanks for helping my ignorant mind to understand these audio terminologies. So, is the default opamp in the MBE+ much to your liking? or r u using a different opamp?


----------



## jrazmar

has anyone purchased your MBE+ from TTVJ? It is cheaper there compared to the one from Head-direct. Are they the same or with different specs? Please let me know. I'm eyeing on it now. thanks.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jrazmar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_has anyone purchased your MBE+ from TTVJ? It is cheaper there compared to the one from Head-direct. Are they the same or with different specs? Please let me know. I'm eyeing on it now. thanks._

 

TTVJ is still showing the old price for the 2nd Gen MB-E+ (same like mrarroyo's). And I doubt they have received new stocks yet. It seems only Head-Direct is the only American dealer that's still continously restocking them.

 Ah yes, if you read my addendum in the first page, I am not using the stock 8610 opamps. I am using AD9065AR which I loved very much.


----------



## Kclone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's really gut wrenching to know that my MiniBox-E+ is on the way back to me....and I find myself checking the USPS tracking for the tell tale sign of the parcel to land in Malaysia.....the wait is killing me_

 

Shut up and go listen to your Stax you traitor


----------



## tstarn06

Just a quick note. I am on charge #5, and so far, no stumbles. I would love to believe this is the end of the battery issues. But as I noted, my original MBE+ lasted more than a year before the battery thing reared its ugly head. Otherwise, loving this amp.

 Can anyone suggest the best way to burn it in? Do I keep it plugged in for a week or so? And just keep looping music via one of my DAPs? Or is being on enough? Forgive the dumb question, but I have never burned in an amp before, only dynamic phones.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tstarn06* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just a quick note. I am on charge #5, and so far, no stumbles. I would love to believe this is the end of the battery issues. But as I noted, my original MBE+ lasted more than a year before the battery thing reared its ugly head. Otherwise, loving this amp.

 Can anyone suggest the best way to burn it in? Do I keep it plugged in for a week or so? And just keep looping music via one of my DAPs? Or is being on enough? Forgive the dumb question, but I have never burned in an amp before, only dynamic phones._

 

At a minimum you can just simply switch them on with the Interconnect attached. I would not recommend to plug in the wall charger while doing this and better to let the battery cycle itself - when they are drained then only charge.


----------



## tstarn06

Thanks. Will do.


----------



## mrarroyo

I am glad dw6928 posted his impressions of the MiniBox-E+, I sure hope Fang can get the inventory up on this little jewel.


----------



## EFN

I am getting a bit worried now....it has been seven days since Fang posted the replacement MB-E+. Normally it will take around 5 days (mayble less) for USPS International Priority to reach me.....more nerve wrecking moments..


----------



## dw6928

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am glad dw6928 posted his impressions of the MiniBox-E+, I sure hope Fang can get the inventory up on this little jewel._

 

I was being somewhat modest in my praise for this amp. In reviewing it side by side with 2 Xin amps (C5 and D5) I found the Minibox E+ more honest and revealing than either Xin and much more able to run headphones like AKG 701s and Senn HD650s.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dw6928* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was being somewhat modest in my praise for this amp. In reviewing it side by side with 2 Xin amps (C5 and D5) I found the Minibox E+ more honest and revealing than either Xin and much more able to run headphones like AKG 701s and Senn HD650s._

 

Yeah...it's a blessing and curse for the MB-E+. That ability have got to do with the 18V Li-Ion power. The curse is that on some unit the circuit that handles that power supplies have been found to be quite erratic in durability. But it seems that Three Stones have figured out a fix with the latest batch. I will know for sure very soon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Actually there's a lot of revealing amps out there. The DecWare ZH1 is more revealing than the MB-E+ - but the way the MB-E+ handles the details is what impressed me - they are never annoyingly pronounced which could destroy musicality. That was the problem I had with RSA Tomahawk and Xin SuperMicro-IV - the details take precedence over musicality.


----------



## charlie0904

gosh.... my place got no minibox e+ !!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## dw6928

"Xin SuperMicro-IV - the details take precedence over musicality." (quote)
 Perfectly put. It is, after all, all about the music!


----------



## Kclone

Yeah but sometimes can't details enhance musicality? I notice the extra details I hear with the ER4S increase musical enjoyment. I mean, If you can pick up a guitar line and how it adds to and fits into a piece of music it can enhance/improve your perspective of the song and it's enjoyment.


----------



## Kclone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dw6928* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was being somewhat modest in my praise for this amp. In reviewing it side by side with 2 Xin amps (C5 and D5) I found the Minibox E+ more honest and revealing than either Xin and much more able to run headphones like AKG 701s and Senn HD650s._

 

Did you post impressions or review in another thread?


----------



## dungie

Anyone tried OP627's in this amp? What other options worth listening do we have besides AD8065AR and OP797?


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dungie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone tried OP627's in this amp? What other options worth listening do we have besides AD8065AR and OP797?_

 

I read someone already tried OPA627AP. I have four OPA627BPs myself but I suspect mine to be fakes (at least two of them) I will try them on my MB-E+ soon and see how it goes.

 Pretty much any single DIP 8 JFET opamps will work.


----------



## dungie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pretty much any single DIP 8 JFET opamps will work._

 

That's for sure. The question is - will they work better than AD8065AR?


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dungie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's for sure. The question is - will they work better than AD8065AR?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Better is not the word I'd use. I have used AD8065AR and AD8066AR very extensively against many opamps and kept using them both on my MB-E+ and STAX SRM-001. Each opamps have their merits and the difference makes them special, how you use them in combination with components will either make or break them. I even prefer the OPA2134PA over AD8620 which is quite surprising because the AD8620 is the more popular one.

 But I will know soon enough when I put the OPA627BP to test


----------



## EFN

Oh yes, I should have mentioned that my MB-E+ replacement came in today. I am amazed that Fang actually paid USD$31.00 to EMS over the unit from NY to Malaysia.

 And so I have a spanking new MB-E+ and the burn in ritual begins....this time it will not be too worrying as I spend most of my listening time with the venerable STAX SR-001 MK2 system. The MB-E+ & ER-4P will have a mountain task to regain that "listening time" because I am totally into STAX sound now


----------



## uberburger101

If it fails to impress you, you could always sell it to me cheap.


----------



## tstarn06

So just to keep up my progress, I am on charge #5 with the MBE+ (the replacement I got a couple of weeks ago), and it's still going strong. I am charging, let it run, recharging, as part of the burn-in process, and to ensure the battery situation has been resolved. So far, so good. Very happy.

 Also, is it a good idea to let the battery run down to zero? I have read that you should recharge the batter right before it goes out. Any truth to this? Don't want to screw up the battery on this MBE+. Any advice would be appreciated. I could set a timer. Seems to be getting 24 hours or so on a charge (this is without much use, just turned on).


----------



## dfkt

You shouldn't let a Li-Ion battery run dry - that was only good practice for old NiMH batteries, but is rather bad for Li-Ion and Li-Po. Charge it often, top it off, that's what they like best.

 Some say that you should run it down every 30th charge cycle, but I think that only applies to laptop batteries with calibration circuits, not to the ones used in amps and MP3 players.


----------



## tstarn06

Great, thanks. I will do just that. Nearing 100 hours of burn-in and sounding great, with all my phones, especially the W3s and PFEs.


----------



## longie11

love my Minibox e+. I was coming from a PA2V2 so it was quite a jump. Using it with Yuin PK1s and especially the DT990 05 with the bass boost pressed it pounds on hip hop lol. Very overblown but hey its fun. Great amp.


----------



## elfary

Are the new batch units' charging sections being reliable? I don't like to invest any money on unreliable stuff.


----------



## Kclone

The new batch is not at Head Direct yet. I was told on April 11th the new batch would be in aprox. 2-3 weeks so anytime now. I would hope they have the problem corrected now.


----------



## EFN

Update:

 The new batch seems to be quite reliable with the battery and charging capability. My MB-E+ was running way over 24 hours on single charge (with 50% load) and this is already way better than my previous unit which can only last 8 hours. Charging seems to be as per described now where previously the full batt indicator will pop up in less than 3 hours.

 Looking good and rosy. Hope it will stay that way


----------



## Kclone

I just got my Minibox-E+ today. I was using the RSA P-51. Okay, the Minibox-E+ is amazing with the Ety ER4S. Just great synergy. I mean, I knew would be good from reading this thread, but I wasn't expecting it to be this darn good, right out the box. I am amazed, and I can't wait to here what they sound like after burn in.


----------



## kiwirugby

I too have been using a P-51 for the past couple of months or so and just the Minibox since yesterday afternoon, so I'd be curious about your comparative impressions. I know that any impressions maybe premature, but these two amps provide some pretty bloody good sound. 

 I am listening to Britten's Young Persons' Guide to The Orchestra (lets you hear all the instruments; great frequency range; good test piece) with a 4th G. 60gb iMod (lossless) --> ALO jumbo cryo mini-mini --> P-51 or MBE+ --> re-cabled ESW9, and am marveling at how clear the music sounds, with great articulation and really realistic sounding extension at both ends. The many percussion instruments used in this piece sound amazingly clear and realistic withe the MBE+.

 In truth I cannot really decide (tell???) the difference between the two! I just wonder if the MDE+ has just that more bass extension and depth. Timpani on the MBE+ sound just that tad more real.

 Hell, I'll just get another mini-mini and use them both at the same time!!!!!!!


----------



## Ricey20

I have both MBE+ and P-51 with PFEs and ES3X. I prefer the P-51 with my ES3X so thats my main setup now, with the MBE+ things sound really thin and bright but the PFE + MBE sound excellent.


----------



## tstarn06

Agree on the MBE and PFE synergy. Also, the Westone 3s and the MBE an excellent match, with the Touch 2G via Lil Knight LOD.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ricey20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have both MBE+ and P-51 with PFEs and ES3X. I prefer the P-51 with my ES3X so thats my main setup now, with the MBE+ things sound really thin and bright but the PFE + MBE sound excellent._

 

I do not own the ES3X but I do know that if you replace the two AD8610 opamps w/ AD797's you will get additional depth and width. Good luck.


----------



## musicmaker

x2 on the AD797. It is what I have on my MB-E+ now and really like it. It gives the sound more body and soul.


----------



## Kclone

Comparing the Minibox to the P-51, the Minibox has a more expansive/bigger sound, and more weight. The sound is also warm which is a big plus the Ety ER4S. The Minibox has the bass boost, which the The P-51 lacks. The bass boost seems like a need with the Ety's. The P-51 has it's pluses though. The P-51 has an exciting, alive feel/sound but at the same time is warm with the Ety's, it is actually warmer than the Minibox. It also has better focus. What I mean is the whole picture is easy to look at (hear) with the P-51. With the Minibox, things are more spread out so it is not as cohesive. Another thing I noticed with the P-51 is a blacker background. Kind of hard to explain, but you know it when you compare the two amps. In the sound spectrum, the P-51 has better treble extension and detail, and a sharper midrange. I prefer the midrange on the Minibox though, it has a bigger more expansive presence. Of course you can here the bass better with the Minibox so it wins in that deparment. Really, what it comes down to is preference. They are both very good, and I could be happy with either one. A couple of things of note in my comparison though, I only used the Ety ER4S so other phones may tell a different story, and the other things is the P-51 has about 350 hours on it and the Minibox has only 25 hours. So I have no idea how much the Minibox improves or changes with more time, maybe others can comment on that and if burn in would have much of an effect when doing this comparison.


----------



## Kclone

One more thing I would like to add is the volume control on the MiniBox-E+. If you move it just tiny bit to the right it is to loud and if you move it just a tiny bit to the left it is not loud enough. It is hard to hone in the volume level because the thing is so darn sensitive. The P-51 has the gain switch to counter that problem. Since I have the ER4S, should I have the PtoS switch pushed in or out, I am little confused. I listen to it both ways.


----------



## kiwirugby

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kclone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Comparing the Minibox to the P-51, the Minibox has a more expansive/bigger sound, and more weight. The sound is also warm which is a big plus the Ety ER4S. The Minibox has the bass boost, which the The P-51 lacks. The bass boost seems like a need with the Ety's. The P-51 has it's pluses though. The P-51 has an exciting, alive feel/sound but at the same time is warm with the Ety's, it is actually warmer than the Minibox. It also has better focus. What I mean is the whole picture is easy to look at (hear) with the P-51. With the Minibox, things are more spread out so it is not as cohesive. Another thing I noticed with the P-51 is a blacker background. Kind of hard to explain, but you know it when you compare the two amps. In the sound spectrum, the P-51 has better treble extension and detail, and a sharper midrange. I prefer the midrange on the Minibox though, it has a bigger more expansive presence. Of course you can here the bass better with the Minibox so it wins in that deparment. Really, what it comes down to is preference. They are both very good, and I could be happy with either one. A couple of things of note in my comparison though, I only used the Ety ER4S so other phones may tell a different story, and the other things is the P-51 has about 350 hours on it and the Minibox has only 25 hours. So I have no idea how much the Minibox improves or changes with more time, maybe others can comment on that and if burn in would have much of an effect when doing this comparison._

 


 Thanks, Kclone. Interesting perspective. I am with you on the warmth and largesse of the minibox. More bass too. This really works for me with classical music. I have tried to discern the difference in the highs, and to my ears, using a re-cabled ESW9, I think that the minibox has it by a hair: upper frequencies of the piano just that tad more sparkle.

 But your overall assessment is one I share: they are both very good, and I am glad I own both!!!.....and will interchange often! In fact I have the two of them bundled wiht my 4th G 60gb iMod. Quite a bundle!


----------



## dfkt

Fang is the best, he sent me two (in words: 2) new batteries for my dead MBE+. I stored one safely away at 40% charge in the fridge and soldered the other one to the PCB. It's charging at the moment, but I'll hope for the best, of course. 

 Any of you guys with new batteries (Tstarn06 et al?), do you have blue batteries instead of the older green ones?


----------



## Ricey20

I think I have a green battery -_-
 Maybe I should ask for a new one in case.

 oh and the AD797 has that "volume screech" thing going so I never left it in.


----------



## dfkt

I asked my local electronics flea market guy to get me some LME49710. A friend recommended them to me, should be interesting if they make any difference to my ears. Good thing they don't even need a white/brown dog/cat adapter to fit.


----------



## tstarn06

I am too chicken to open my MBE+ so I don't know my battery color, but it's working like a charm.


----------



## macfly

Been enjoying my newly acquired Minibox-E+ for the past week with my ER-4P, Sennheiser HD580, and Grado SR-325 (the older black ones). One thing I've noticed is that it especially excels at bringing forth the lush tones and subtle decay of recordings with piano.

 I seem to recall reading something about it being more difficult (not possible?) to roll opamps with the newer MBE+ with the buttons. I've been searching but can't find where I thought I read that...can anyone comment?


----------



## ath

macfly,

 That issue has been resolved with the new amps. I bought mine back in March and it seems to work fine with AD797 ( it was supposedly giving a high pitched whine while raising the volume...). I am currently using AD8065AR . It seems to have the depth and width that I'm looking for. 

 Hope this helps!

 Cheers.


----------



## macfly

Great, thanks for the info, ath! Looks like I'll have to order up some op-amps to play with...


----------



## Philimon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Foreword:
*Mids/Vocals*
 With the bass boost switched on, the mids gets warmer – noticeably warmer if compared to with bass boost switched off. Nick Cave and Diana Krall vocals sounded deep and rich – very lush. At the same time, it is still very realistic and transparent. Despite the warming, they don’t sound out of place at all. They are quite consistent as one would expect hearing them live – a touch of organic boomy-ness where it should be and whispers when there is one. Any other instruments that inhabit the mids are treated similarly, there’s noticeable lushness to violin, guitars, piano, saxophone etc - they don’t exhibit any uncanny hump and the edges are silky smooth, sometimes ended with natural sounding decays. At first I am unaccustomed to this and find it hard to attune to the new sound, but now I have grown addicted and find myself spinning the same songs over and over again. In contrast, the SuperMicro-IV sounds a bit more neutral because it does not have the bass frequencies boosted like the MiniBox-E+. SuperMini-IV on the other hand has slightly lighter warmth with the bass boost option enabled.

*Bass*
 This is where the MiniBox-E+ shine best. Since I am almost permanently on bass boost and getting addicted to it, I could no longer bear to have that function turned off. There’s a rediscovery of balance to the entire spectrum with the bass boost. Long regarded as a cold sounding IEM, the ER-4S is a lush pounder now. Bass is still very tightly controlled but now it has commanding authority in visceral impact and slam. Presence is also improved drastically – where there’s bass, one can clearly feel the vibe kicking in with excellent reverb around the ear canals. It’s groovy actually. Listening to my Metal, Electronica and Indie collection through the ER-4S has never been this engaging. Be it percussion bass, stringed bass or Diana Krall’s cello outfit or electronic induced vibes, the MiniBox-E+ rocks them solid – and with authority. The best part is that, if there’s no bass note present (or very minimal), the sound will remain faithful by not “projecting” any artificial bass hum or anything like that – very realistic.

*Treble*
 This is the most interesting part. Treble no longer jumps with “in your face” emphasis. In fact I can audibly hear that treble has been spaced out a step back. No overbearing presence that I can tell of. There’s some serious silky smoothness to the presentation now. The edges are lush with swishy decays, not too long, not too short either. We are talking about very high quality treble here. The extension is properly textured giving the impression of cleanly layered and staged treble body. Gone are the annoying glare and hardness. Simply put, I feel no fatigue even after long hours of listening. Some may even call this different presentation as recessed. In a way it is true, but if one chooses to focus on the treble, they are still there in full flavor – just that it is no longer glorified as how an ER-4S would project while plugged in to most other amps. In contrast, the SuperMini-IV and SuperMicro-IV will still retain the upfront projection which can be a bit too much on some funky recordings.

*Sibilance Handling*
 On a very positive note, the MiniBox-E+ has done a tremendous job in reducing vocal sibilance commonly heard through a bright sounding cans like the ER-4 (most notably the ER-4S/B). I have had lots of problem listening to Joy Division’s Ian Curtis and TEXAS because their voice are so high pitched and will always surely ended in that dreadful long “SSSS”. But now it’s very tolerable. The sibilance has been controlled significantly – partially perhaps due to the overall warming of the entire sound spectrum. Definitely a must have feature for all bright sounding cans. This is where the Xin duo loses a bit of ground as both are not an excellent controller of sibilance; they are good but after listening to the MiniBox-E+, the differences are quite apparent. I guess this is a price to pay for being very detailed and sensitive_

 

It is great to hear that minibox_e+ is a good match for bass anemic, treble harsh, recessed mids, and sibilant headphones. I have the DT770 2005 250ohm, which is all of the things I mentioned above, but I think with the bass boost switched to "on" with the minibox - I have found new pleasure in these headphones (as in I think it sounds better).

 I have had the minibox_e+ for about two and half years now without problems. They have been my sole dedicated headphone amp, since joining Head-Fi.

 I didn't attempt using the bass boost with the DT770 until today. I never thought of using it before, because I thought it didn't help with sound quality when I had the Denon AHD2000, thus forgetting about the switch. I came on the boards looking for verification from others that the increase in overall sound quality without detriment could be had by using the bass boost switch with certain headphones... 

 Philimon

 -------------

 Forgot to mention only issue with the amp:

 The volume control increases/decreases the volume too much with the slightest turn of the wheel. It can be hard to get the volume setting to your preference. I think this problem could have been avoided in development, because I only listen to the minibox-e+ at a minimum degree/turn of the wheel (maybe 1/10 of the full turn turn of the wheel)... Also, when the volume is VERY low, it seems like the sound is unbalanced... Like the right might be louder than left. I do not know if this is even possible, but this is what it sounds like to me when I have the volume especially low for listening when going to bed. I sometimes have to listen to it louder than I like, because it doesn't sound right to me.


----------



## Philimon

Too bad so many are having difficulties with keeping a charge. When the battery is working well - the charge lasts a long time. I have to recharge my iPod many times before I have to recharge the amp. 60 hours of use a charge on the minibox-e+ seems correct to me.


----------



## Philimon

What is the consensus on the PtoS switch? Should it be on or off? When should it be used? For example with my DT770? When on does it help reduce the harshness of the treble? At the moment - I am trying to figure out if I prefer it on or off with these headphones. With my Yuin PK1 - I always preferred for the PtoS switch to be left on (because of the volume...). Its hard to make an opinion on sound quality, because the volume changes so much when switching between on and off... What have your experiences been like?


----------



## dfkt

I've did some extensive listening tests with my UE11 on the MBE+... the PtoS switch engaged makes the sound _much _worse. I'm not talking nuances here, I'm talking severe degradation in quality. Those are 18 Ohm phones with an extremely high sensitivity, so they might react worse than many others. Too bad, since the PtoS switch would eliminate the inherent hiss of the MBE+ with such kinds of phones - so one main functionality of a 75 Ohm addition is led ad absurdum.

 I did some RMAA tests with the PtoS in both positions, without load it behaves fine - but the difference with a 18 Ohm + 119 dB/mW phone is quite remarkable.

 I have to do some tests with phones that are "better behaved", like the PFE, HFI-780, etc.


----------



## Philimon

Thanks for the info dfkt.

 I wasn't sure if the sound difference between on and off with the PtoS switch was real, or if had to do with change in volume... 

 I will listen to the amp with the PtoS in off mode for the next couple of weeks. I think it will make it much easier for me to discern degradation in sound quality when I try switching it back on later. I have to get accustomed to the sound, since I am used to having the switch on... I find it easier to find a low level of volume I am comfortable with, without unbalanced sound when the PtoS switch is on. Atleast that is how I feel (or felt 2 years ago) when I use the amp with my PK1 (my most often used headphone)...


----------



## dfkt

What DT770 do you have? 30/80/250 Ohm? I assume with higher impedance DT770's the difference wouldn't be that great, if even noticeable.

 I have the OK1 and RE0 here, both around 150 Ohm... I can give them a try with the MBE+.


----------



## Philimon

I have the DT770 250ohm 2005 edition.


----------



## mrarroyo

Could it be the P to S switch was intended for the Etymotic ER4P and that is why you are hearing the sound degradation with other cans?


----------



## dfkt

I don't have any ER-4P to try, but I would assume an added 75 Ohm would not make such a negative impact on any phone? Well, I have a few other IEMs to try, how they react to it. I will report back.


----------



## Ricey20

I was complaining about sound imbalances with the PToS switch on as well. I did also notice that the sound quality was very different than with it off so I also leave it off now, seemed the sound would become distant and more muffled. But then there's the problem with hiss and the volume being too loud with high sensitivity iems like my ES3X. One of the main reasons why I use my P-51 instead. The P-51 has no hiss at all at low/medium/or high gain. Maybe the MBE+ uses really cheap resistors for the PToS?


----------



## Philimon

I agree with your "distant and muffled" assessment. It kind of makes the difference between making my DT770 no longer fatiguing with the harsh highs, but at the same time making them all together boring. Like - why use these huge expensive cans, when my PK1s are just as good (or better) and more comfortable? When the PtoS is off, I can easily see the potential in the DT770...


----------



## dfkt

I've tried a variety of phones with and without PtoS now...

Phones that hiss a lot without PtoS and sound veiled and distant with it: UE11, SE530, S.F5
Phones that behave somewhat better - less hiss without, less degradation with: Phonak, ER-6, RE0
Phones that show no difference: HFI-780, G1A, G2A, OK1, KSC75
Seems it's not entirely an impedance/sensitivity thing alone, considering the varying specs of the phones I tried.


----------



## Philimon

Interesting results dfkt. I will try and do a similar test with my other headphones as well.

 Right now I have taken a preference to listening to my DT770 with PtoS off, bass boost off, and treble reduced with equalizer... Yeah I know, but atleast my ears are not bleeding. Frequency doesn't seem so imbalanced now, and the bass sounds just fine.


----------



## kiwirugby

I hope this is not too much of a "highjack", but being a relatively new owner of the MBE+, I am not quite sure I know when it has finished charging. I thought I remembered the light turning from yellow to red, but now the charging light just turns off, and recently, relatively quickly....granted after only 3-4 hours' use. I hope I am not having charging or battery issues.

 Thoughts? Experiences?

 Thanks!


----------



## Philimon

The light is yellow when charging, and should just turn off when done charging. 

 I thought it was just me, but my minibox seems to recharge quicker vs when I first got the amp. I did not think this could be possible, so I always just let the minibox just charge for like a good eight hours before unplugging (regardless of whether the charge light says it is done or not). I hope its not a sign the battery is losing its ability to keep a charge, but I have no indication of that from regular use... The amp seems to go just as long as my first use...


----------



## kiwirugby

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Philimon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The light is yellow when charging, and should just turn off when done charging. 

 I thought it was just me, but my minibox seems to recharge quicker vs when I first got the amp. I did not think this could be possible, so I always just let the minibox just charge for like a good eight hours before unplugging (regardless of whether the charge light says it is done or not). I hope its not a sign the battery is losing its ability to keep a charge, but I have no indication of that from regular use... The amp seems to go just as long as my first use..._

 

Much appreciated, Philimon! I think I'll follow your lead and keep the amp plugged in for a while. I haven't experienced any battery problems to date. But the longest I have left the MBE+ before re-charging is only about 5-6 hours.

 I need to get back to comparing the MDE+ with the P51-Mustang and haven't listened to the latter for a bit. Now you made me!!! What a tough thing to have to do!


----------



## dfkt

My orange charging light always turned off, no phase shift to red at any time.


----------



## dfkt

I got some adult Lego bricks (aka opamps) to play around with in the MBE+, and the results are rather interesting.

 The LME49710 is for my taste clearly better than the stock AD8610 - less hiss with low impedance/high sensitivity phones, less insane click/pop at turning on, and somewhat "richer, fuller, more tube-y" sound (can't put my finger on it - maybe placebo).

 The OPA627AP is more or less the same as the AD8610, didn't notice any huge differences between the two yet.

 The LT1115 is completely unusable in the MBE+ - screeching, oscillating sine sweeps like tuning an AM radio, and much higher noise floor than the other opamps.

 Here's some RMAA tests:
MBE+ OpAmp Test (No Load)
MBE+ OpAmp Test (16 Ohm)
MBE+ OpAmp Test (AD8610 vs OPA627AP)
MBE+ OpAmp Test (LME49710 vs LT1115)

 Additionally, here's how the MBE+ reacts to a 16 Ohm load with all available modes. Notice the crosstalk with PtoS engaged:
MBE+ All Modes Test (16 Ohm)







 On another note, the stock AD8610 seem to have been soldered onto the browndog adapter while they were _inside_ the MBE+ sockets... the solder ran through to the DIP8 sockets and soldered them into place. No wonder I couldn't get them out without almost ripping it to bits. Now that's quality workmanship... The pins (wires, actually) on the browndogs are as soft as butter, so take _really _good care when trying to get them out:


----------



## Bonthouse

Ok, sorry for the thread high-jack, but I really don't want to start a seperate thread for it..

 My Corda Meier Move has two AD8610A's installed and I'm thinking of upgrading them to the AD797's. Will it be worth the "trouble"?


----------



## morfic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bonthouse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, sorry for the thread high-jack, but I really don't want to start a seperate thread for it..

 My Corda Meier Move has two AD8610A's installed and I'm thinking of upgrading them to the AD797's. Will it be worth the "trouble"?_

 

Any amp is worth a LME49710/LME49720 (based on if it needs single or dual channel opamps).
 I can't say it often enough, save yourself time and trouble by going to the best overall performer.
 If your opamps are socketed, go for it, best $9+shipping you will spend and actually get a nice enjoyable return out of.


----------



## dfkt

Well, Meier's implementation doesn't leave much space for DIP8 stuff: 

http://anythingbutipod.com/images/fo...32327-1024.jpg

 (Image too large for embedding.)

 Is the amazing LME49710 available in smaller sizes? Maybe the SOIC NARROW variant might work?

 ---

 By the way, thanks again Morfic for sending me the OPA627 and LT1115.


----------



## Bonthouse

True, but a AD797 should fit, correct? I read earlier in the thead that EFN problems with it, but that's a chance I'm willing to take. 
 I'm also going to replace the signal caps with Elna Cerafine (if they fit).


----------



## morfic

Then get SOIC8 LME49710 since you were going to solder anyway and are probably less likely to try a lot.

http://www.national.com/packaging/folders/m08a.html check the size, should be the same as the SOIC8 that is pictured.


----------



## dfkt

Now that I've heard the LME49710, I'd certainly go for that one over any fancier AD opamp.


----------



## magzcampos

i was wondering why has the minibox jumped from 150 usd to 220?


----------



## andrew3199

I am trying to wade through this thread looking for a comparison to the "Corda 3 Move."
 I was going to get the Corda until I came across the "Minibox"......Here we go again....


----------



## magzcampos

I believe the Three Stones Minibox- E+ is suppose to pair well with Etymotic er4s... read EFNs review


----------



## mrarroyo

The MiniBox-E+ does pair well w/ the Etymotic ER4P!


----------



## RickB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magzcampos* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i was wondering why has the minibox jumped from 150 usd to 220?_

 

Too many positive reviews!


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magzcampos* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i was wondering why has the minibox jumped from 150 usd to 220?_

 

The $150 was a price when the prowess of the MB-E+ was unknown to the general masses. The hike to $220 is still considered reasonable because I'd pay $600 for an MB-E+ (because IMO with the right opamps the MB-E+ does compare fairly strong against certain $600 amps)


----------



## pekingduck

Is the MB-E+ able to drive the Denon D5000 to their full potential? Anyone tried? Thanks


----------



## Beef_Curry

I'm very bad luck. Just bought it.
 After charged about 2 hours, the adapter is broke and battery still did not have any power.

 Any suggestion? How to contact Fang?


----------



## Beef_Curry

Got email from fang. Very good support.

 I got a new replacement.


----------



## Midnighttown

Have anyone combo'ed the minibox-e with an JH13 Pro how does it sounds like?


----------



## JOEYBUCKETS

does anyone know if these units are back in stock?


----------



## magzcampos

yes, i got a email stating 2-3 weeks


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beef_Curry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm very bad luck. Just bought it.
 After charged about 2 hours, the adapter is broke and battery still did not have any power.

 Any suggestion? How to contact Fang?_

 

PM Nankai (Fang). Support is always excellent.


----------



## pekingduck

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beef_Curry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got email from fang. Very good support.

 I got a new replacement._

 

How does the D5000 sound driven by the minibox-e+? I am thinking about buying the Denon but information regarding this combo is scarce.. thanks


----------



## Nirvana1000

So which opamp will tighten up the bass a little and give it some more high end?Compared to the the stock opamp.As of now my ALO Mini^3 sounds better.It has better highs and the bass is tighter.But the Minibox E+ has a little more quantity in bass.And i'd say almost even with the mids.With a slight edge to the ALO.Keep in mind the ALO Mini^3 has the AD8397 for both channels.Any suggestions?*Update! *After close A and B listening with the Minibox E+ bass boost off.They have very similar sound quality.But he ALO may still sound a little cleaner or clear.But still very close.Oh and the battery life of the Minibox has been insanely excellent!Since i got it 5 or 6 days ago it's still going strong.Mind you i haven't had long listening sessions.But i would still like to upgrade the Minibox's opamp.The LME49710 sounds interesting.Anyone who has used this opamp care to comment on its sound quality?


----------



## dfkt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nirvana1000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The LME49710 sounds interesting.Anyone who has used this opamp care to comment on its sound quality?_

 

The LME is better than the stock AD, in my opinion, especially for IEMs and other low-impedance gear. We've discussed it here in this thread a few pages ago, you might click back a bit... besides less hiss and background noise the LME somehow sounds fuller, more refined. I can't put my finger on it, and I hate sounding like a silly "audiophile", but the LME clearly gives a change to the better.

 EDIT: Here's the link: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f105/t...ml#post5737775


----------



## Nirvana1000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The LME is better than the stock AD, in my opinion, especially for IEMs and other low-impedance gear. We've discussed it here in this thread a few pages ago, you might click back a bit... besides less hiss and background noise the LME somehow sounds fuller, more refined. I can't put my finger on it, and I hate sounding like a silly "audiophile", but the LME clearly gives a change to the better.

 EDIT: Here's the link: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f105/t...ml#post5737775_

 

Yes.I read that page.The only description of the sound quality came from you."*less hiss with low impedance/high sensitivity phones, less insane click/pop at turning on, and somewhat "richer, fuller, more tube-y" sound*"I simply want an opamp which tightens up the bass a little and especially gives a better high end.Oh and i will likely be using fullsize cans most of the time.


----------



## dfkt

Well, they're like 10 bucks a pair... just give it a try.


----------



## mrarroyo

For some reason the two best sounding op-amps for the MiniBox-E+ are IMO the AD8610 or the AD797. The first is crisp and the second dark/mellow.


----------



## macfly

Just ordered myself a couple LME49710's from Digikey. I'm brand new to opamp rolling. Where can I get a few gold-plated 8 pin DIP sockets within the US? Searched eBay...all of the sellers who are selling 10 or less sockets are overseas, and I don't want to wait that long for shipping. Apologies if this has been covered already elsewhere on Head-Fi.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *macfly* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just ordered myself a couple LME49710's from Digikey. I'm brand new to opamp rolling. Where can I get a few gold-plated 8 pin DIP sockets within the US? Searched eBay...all of the sellers who are selling 10 or less sockets are overseas, and I don't want to wait that long for shipping. Apologies if this has been covered already elsewhere on Head-Fi._

 

They are available at: Cimarron Technology, Inc.


----------



## dfkt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *macfly* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just ordered myself a couple LME49710's from Digikey. I'm brand new to opamp rolling. Where can I get a few gold-plated 8 pin DIP sockets within the US? Searched eBay...all of the sellers who are selling 10 or less sockets are overseas, and I don't want to wait that long for shipping. Apologies if this has been covered already elsewhere on Head-Fi._

 

The LME are available in DIP8-style (see my photo here), you don't need an adapter when you bought the right style. You only would need it if you bought SOIC-style by accident.

 No adapter is better than a gold plated adapter.


----------



## mrarroyo

Good point dfkt, just posted the adapter since macfly asked for an adapter source. Cheers!


----------



## macfly

I actually did order the LME opamps in DIP8 style. Just to make sure I have this correct before I go and remove the stock AD8610 -- dfkt, looking at your photo, the next step would be to remove the DIP8 adapter in your Minibox and simply plug in the LME to the board itself, correct?

 I'll probably order up some gold plated adapters so I can swap out opamps that only come in SOIC form. Thanks to both of you for the assistance.


----------



## morfic

there will be sockets under the adapted ad8610, your DIP8 LME goes into those sockets.


----------



## macfly

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morfic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_there will be sockets under the adapted ad8610, your DIP8 LME goes into those sockets._

 

Exactly the confirmation I needed to go ahead. Thanks, morfic!

 Thought of one more quick one and I'm good to go: having no soldering experience whatsoever, should I attempt to desolder the AD8610, or simply pull it off of the board with a careful bit of force? If it's safe to pull off the AD8610, I'd prefer to go that route so as not to damage any surrounding parts with the heat of the soldering iron.


----------



## morfic

The AD8610 is soldered to a pcb with 8 pins, this pcb with pins is your adapter, you pull it out of the socket holding it on the pcb.
 Keep your soldering iron tucked away.

 Note the notches in the socket, note the notch on the LME. Bend the legs of your brand new LME slightly inwards from either side, until they are parallel to each other, then insert the chip into the sockets, with the nothces on socket and chip on the same side, then enjoy the new sound.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5737775-post304.html

 Check the above great images, your amp will look like there after you remove the AD8610s


----------



## mrarroyo

Here is another picture of the MiniBox-E+ internals showing the op-amps.






[/IMG]


----------



## Nirvana1000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morfic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The AD8610 is soldered to a pcb with 8 pins, this pcb with pins is your adapter, you pull it out of the socket holding it on the pcb.
 Keep your soldering iron tucked away.

 Note the notches in the socket, note the notch on the LME. Bend the legs of your brand new LME slightly inwards from either side, until they are parallel to each other, then insert the chip into the sockets, with the nothces on socket and chip on the same side, then enjoy the new sound.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5737775-post304.html

 Check the above great images, your amp will look like there after you remove the AD8610s_

 

Oh good!You answered my question also.I guess you can't change the "buffers",since they are soldered straight to the board?Unless you are experienced in soldering.


----------



## Nirvana1000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The LME are available in DIP8-style (see my photo here), you don't need an adapter when you bought the right style. You only would need it if you bought SOIC-style by accident.

 No adapter is better than a gold plated adapter. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 I see you have the same push button model as me.Did you try the AD797's.If so how did they sound?


----------



## morfic

There are not many buffers around, and not many pin compatible to one another, buffers are not as easily exchanged as opamps.
 I never noticed the sound signature changing when i listened to headphone on my XM5 with and w/o BUF634 installed. Buffers shouldn't change the sound.

 So don't worry about your buffers, just find the opamps that sounds best *cough*LME49710*cough*


----------



## macfly

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morfic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The AD8610 is soldered to a pcb with 8 pins, this pcb with pins is your adapter, you pull it out of the socket holding it on the pcb.
 Keep your soldering iron tucked away.

 Note the notches in the socket, note the notch on the LME. Bend the legs of your brand new LME slightly inwards from either side, until they are parallel to each other, then insert the chip into the sockets, with the nothces on socket and chip on the same side, then enjoy the new sound.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5737775-post304.html

 Check the above great images, your amp will look like there after you remove the AD8610s_

 

These directions are great, appreciate your clear explanation. But I think I've figured out why I'm confused. As you can see in the attached photo, my Minibox-E+ doesn't have a DIP8 adapter with sockets underneath the pcb that the 8610 is soldered to. So it looks like I'm going to have to order a couple of DIP8 adapters after all.


----------



## dfkt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nirvana1000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see you have the same push button model as me.Did you try the AD797's.If so how did they sound?_

 

No, didn't try that one yet. Might be worth a try, though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *macfly* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_These directions are great, appreciate your clear explanation. But I think I've figured out why I'm confused. As you can see in the attached photo, my Minibox-E+ doesn't have a DIP8 adapter with sockets underneath the pcb that the 8610 is soldered to. So it looks like I'm going to have to order a couple of DIP8 adapters after all._

 

That looks very weird indeed. The square red plate where the AD's are soldered onto certainly looks like a browndog adapter - it even has the notch cut out where pin 1 is. But why would it be soldered directly on the main PCB?


----------



## Nirvana1000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *macfly* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_These directions are great, appreciate your clear explanation. But I think I've figured out why I'm confused. As you can see in the attached photo, my Minibox-E+ doesn't have a DIP8 adapter with sockets underneath the pcb that the 8610 is soldered to. So it looks like I'm going to have to order a couple of DIP8 adapters after all._

 

 Oh crap!If yours is the same model as mine(and it looks like it).Then i have the same DIP8 adapters.I'll open it up tonight to make sure.I guess "Three Stones" cut some corners and saved some money on their parts.


----------



## macfly

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That looks very weird indeed. The square red plate where the AD's are soldered onto certainly looks like a browndog adapter - it even has the notch cut out where pin 1 is. But why would it be soldered directly on the main PCB?_

 

So how would you recommend proceeding at this point? Looks like I'll have to solder the DIP8 adapters with sockets onto the main PCB. How should I get the browndog off of there? Again, no soldering experience, but I have access to a soldering iron and I suppose I can practice a bit on other stuff and then move to the Minibox if need be.


----------



## Nirvana1000

Well looks like i got lucky with the "brown dog adapters".Do you have to desolder them or is it possible to pull them out without any damaging?And wow they are small!At least the stock are.


----------



## morfic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *macfly* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So how would you recommend proceeding at this point? Looks like I'll have to solder the DIP8 adapters with sockets onto the main PCB. How should I get the browndog off of there? Again, no soldering experience, but I have access to a soldering iron and I suppose I can practice a bit on other stuff and then move to the Minibox if need be._

 

pick up some desoldering braid
 you heat up the solder point with the braid, and the solder will flow up on the braid away from the pcb, you do that 16 times and you can remove both soic8todip8 adapter (i doubt they are browndog, i never seen such poorly soldered adapters before this thread ;P )
 Note where pin1 is before you remove them
 insert the sockets in the vacant holes orienting pin 1 properly, and solder in place, now place your DIP8 LME49720 in the sockets (although you will never want to downgrade anyway, so you could just solder the LME49720 to your amp directly, w/o the socket in the way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 )

 Before you ask which is pin one on the socket and/or LME, hit google for some datasheets, print them, nice to have datasheets when soldering stuff anyway.....yes, my memory sucks, so i stick to datasheets at hand


----------



## macfly

I finally got a chance to stop by my dad's to get some soldering assistance. Got the stock AD's out of there and soldered in the new adapters, then seated the LME49710s into the sockets. I thought we did pretty well, but something must have gone wrong, because now the Minibox outputs sound on the right channel at an incredibly loud and brash volume. When turning the volume knob to a mere 0.5, the sound is deafening, and it distorts the hell out of my Etymotic ER4Ps. There's also a loud hiss present on the right channel regardless of whether anything is plugged into the Minibox input or not.

 What could we have possibly done wrong? Our soldering job wasn't the prettiest or cleanest, but we took great care not to let the tip of the iron touch any of the other components on the PCB. I'm feeling pretty bummed that after all of this preparation and parts ordering, I'm left with an amp in worse condition than before. 

 I suppose I'll see if Fang can repair the amp, if it's even repairable? Before I contact him though, any ideas as to what might be causing the amp to act the way I described? Tomorrow I'll open it up again and try re-seating both opamps, maybe that will do the trick. Again, much thanks for all of the information and assistance thus far.


----------



## morfic

take pictures of both sides of the pcb and post them, close in on the sockets and solder work as much as your camera allows


----------



## macfly

Hi morfic, FYI I reseated the opamps, but no luck fixing the issue. I don't have a macro lens, so these are the best shots I could come up with. Let me know if a photo from a different angle would be helpful:


----------



## Nirvana1000

So once you get the stock op amps out.You can just fit the new ones in the brown dog adapters.Ands that's it,no soldering necessary right?Oh one thing that really bugs me about this amp is the 1/8 inputs are not locking the connections!And when i move the amp they come loose and the audio cuts out.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Is this a common problem with the Minibox E+?


----------



## mrarroyo

I do not know of any locking 1/8" jacks.


----------



## Nirvana1000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I do not know of any locking 1/8" jacks._

 

 At least the TRS male connector should have a light but stable entry,a clicking noise letting you know you have a full entry connection inside the 1/8 female input.My Minibox has no hold on the male connector,what so ever!It's comes disconnected on it's own very easily.


----------



## mrarroyo

If still under warranty contact the seller and arrage a return to fix it.


----------



## macfly

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nirvana1000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh one thing that really bugs me about this amp is the 1/8 inputs are not locking the connections!And when i move the amp they come loose and the audio cuts out.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Is this a common problem with the Minibox E+?_

 

Yep, I have the same thing happen all the time, the male connector on my iPod LOD slips out of the Minibox's female jack very easily.


----------



## xkRoWx

My MiniBox's female jacks (both in and output) are wiggly. Fixable?


----------



## Nirvana1000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xkRoWx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My MiniBox's female jacks (both in and output) are wiggly. Fixable?_

 

Yes it's fixable.Flash a bright light in the inputs.And you will see small metal clips(contacts) on the left of each.All you have to do is slide a pin or needle behind them and gently pry them inwards.I used a very small nail and just poked it in behind the metal clips and voila.The connections are now tighter and secure.


----------



## Midnighttown

Hey guys i just got an JH13 pro a week ago and i would like to buy this for it? would you guys recommend this for me? how about changing opamps? what opamps would i should replace to pair with my new earphones? thanks =)


----------



## dfkt

I wouldn't use the MBE+ with any high-sensitivity IEMs...


----------



## kiwirugby

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wouldn't use the MBE+ with any high-sensitivity IEMs..._

 

Why not? I am considering getting the JH13 PRO and I have the MBE+ as one of four possibilities with the JH13s (the others being the P-51, maxxed out supermacro and a supermicro).

 Any insights would be so helpful. Thanks.


----------



## Ricey20

the major problem I have with the MBE+ with ES3X or JH13 is you don't even turn the volume to 1 and it's too loud already. Also because you don't have much flexibility with the volume control you end up getting channel imbalance. Using the PToS helps but there's a noticeable degrading of the sound. The P-51 works well with the JH13 though, as does the ibasso P3+.


----------



## Punnisher

Sounds like the gain is too high. That's one of my major complaints with portable amps. Most just aren't designed to be used with iems.


----------



## dfkt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kiwirugby* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why not? I am considering getting the JH13 PRO and I have the MBE+ as one of four possibilities with the JH13s (the others being the P-51, maxxed out supermacro and a supermicro).

 Any insights would be so helpful. Thanks._

 

With the UE11 and SE530 the MBE+ hisses like mad, and the volume control can only be used in the first 5% or so before it gets too loud. The PtoS switch makes the sound a lot worse for these kinds of IEMs, as stated a few times in this thread, so it's not really usable to tame the raw power of the amp. Not to mention the deafening click/pop while turning the MBE+ on, it's so loud with those IEMs, I almost think it could do damage to them (unplugging my phones every time I turn the thing on is not really a great workaround).

 The MBE+ works well with my RE0 and HD650(!), but for those ~120dB/mW phones with low impedance it really isn't suited, in my opinion.


----------



## dfkt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Punnisher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds like the gain is too high. That's one of my major complaints with portable amps. Most just aren't designed to be used with iems._

 

Is there any DIY way to lower the gain without using added impedance?


----------



## mrarroyo

dfkt, you could try replacing the AD8610 op-amps w/ a pair of AD797. The sound will be a bit darker and with less gain.


----------



## dfkt

I'm using LME49710 in it at the moment, and it's already quite a lot better than the AD8610. I will look into the AD797, thanks for the tip!


----------



## Nirvana1000

Well looks like my input and output modules are cutting out every time i move the amp.I opened it up and when i press down on them the sound is fine and when i let go the sound cuts out.Looks like now i have to learn how to solder.


----------



## Nirvana1000

For those of you,like me,that are going to learn how to solder.I found this great instructional video.YouTube - How and WHY to Solder Correctly


----------



## dfkt

Better late than never, here's my take on the MBE+: Three Stones MiniBox-E+ Review


----------



## Mad Max

Anybody know the gain of this amp?
 Head-Direct only told me it has a voltage swing of +/- 7.4v

 So far, I've tried out AD8065, AD8610, AD744, and LME49710, and currently auditioning LT1357, and LT1363.

 Aside from the AD797, any other recommendations for opamps to try out? I'm having too much fun XD


----------



## acadplotting

hi head fier!
 Be careful with opamp rolling! I tried opamp ad797an 0043 on my minibox. It toasted my IEM. Anybody can advice where to buy this AD8065ar


----------



## Mad Max

I recommend you skip the 8065 and get TLE2141A instead. Takes the amp's performance a notch or two up from 8065. It sounds so damn good. If you really want those AD's though, you'll need to solder a pair to adapters. Practical Devices sells them pre-mounted on adapters that you can use in the amp. *MAKE SURE NOT INSERT OPAMPS BACKWARDS.*



 Also, anyone know if could I sand down one side of each of a pair of BrownDog adapters to fit in the MBE+?


----------



## macfly

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *acadplotting* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi head fier!
 Be careful with opamp rolling! I tried opamp ad797an 0043 on my minibox. It toasted my IEM. Anybody can advice where to buy this AD8065ar_

 

acadplotting, the same thing happened to my Etymotic ER-4P when I swapped out the stock opamps with LME49710. Blew out the right channel.

 With regard to my most recent post earlier in this thread: is there anyone out there willing to examine and possibly repair my Minibox? I haven't used it for months in its current condition!


----------



## Mad Max

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *macfly* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_acadplotting, the same thing happened to my Etymotic ER-4P when I swapped out the stock opamps with LME49710. Blew out the right channel.

 With regard to my most recent post earlier in this thread: is there anyone out there willing to examine and possibly repair my Minibox? I haven't used it for months in its current condition!_

 

You might also want to ask on the DIY forum and/or headamps FS forum.


----------



## dazzer1975

is the minibox e+ the amp to end all amps specifically for ety er4 owners?


----------



## tnmike1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is the minibox e+ the amp to end all amps specifically for ety er4 owners?_

 

for those of us that own Minibox and Etys, I'd say "yes" But it's not specifically for the Ety--will drive other IEMs perfectly welll. It was just designed around the Ety4 with switching for P to S, and a bass boost switch as well.

 If you recall awhile back, certain of Xin amps were designed around the Ety4 as well. Too bad he isn't around anymore


----------



## Pianist

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tnmike1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_for those of us that own Minibox and Etys, I'd say "yes" But it's not specifically for the Ety--will drive other IEMs perfectly welll. It was just designed around the Ety4 with switching for P to S, and a bass boost switch as well.

 If you recall awhile back, certain of Xin amps were designed around the Ety4 as well. *Too bad he isn't around anymore*_

 

Why, did something happen to him?


----------



## dfkt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tnmike1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_will drive other IEMs perfectly welll._

 

Only higher impedance ones, like the RE0 and such, in my experience. I've had no luck driving any of the ridiculously efficient IEMs (UE11, SE530, etc) with the MBE+.


----------



## aangel

many thanks for this great review efn...

 with hope


----------



## Mad Max

I'm getting a higher noise floor in the left channel than the right lately. Ideas?


----------



## dfkt

Try swapping the left and right opamps? Also, maybe try another pair of phones.


----------



## Mad Max

I've done both, I used to think one of the opamps I prepared wasn't soldered properly. Playing music for a couple of minutes seems to "fix" the problem. Faulty volume pot or something within its path?


----------



## autosound

I got one of the original versions of the Minibox E+ about 4-5 years ago.  I loved how it sounded but I had issues with the input and output jacks soon after.  Sound would cut in and out if if the headphone jack or LOD wasn't held the right way.  I stopped using it a long time ago because of this but I just pulled it out of the drawer and sounds pretty good with my SE530s and X10.  But I'm still having problems with the jacks.  Anyone else deal with this and found a solution?  Is it difficult to replace the originals with better quality jacks?  I'd like to have a portable amp to use for my longer commutes. Thanks for your help guys.


----------



## Kclone

I have to replace the battery in mine.  I just bought it used off of ebay, but it needed the battery replaced.  It didn't come with a manual, anyone know what type of battery it takes?


----------

