# Decware Appreciation Thread (MT review up on first page 2-10-12)



## tink97

Hey everyone I checked and couldn't find a dedicated thread for an appreciation of the Decware amps so I thought I would make one.  Would love to hear from all of you guys who own these amps, as it may help others who have a hard time finding out stuff about them and how good they are with headphones and speakers 
   
  I just recieved the mini torii today and have not be able to stop listening to it for the past few hours, I am truly amazed by the unit and thats with stock tubes lol.
   
  I will give it a few weeks and post a review of the mini torii---ava vision dac---LCD-2 rev1.
   
  Have a great evening everyone!
   
  Tink97


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## tink97

All comments below are my opinions and I understand others may have different thoughts and that is all good.  its about the music and everyone hears differently 
  
  
 The Decware Mini Torii (MT for short) is a wonderful amp that I plan to keep in my collection for longer than any other of my amps.  I have gone thru so many I lost count in the last 3 years or so.  I will try to attempt to give a little review of what I think but please understand I am very bad at describing things.
  
 I have let this unit burn in for a week and a half and was so excited that I could not wait any longer for the reivew so here it is lol...I figure if its this good now it will just get better like a fine wine 
  
 These are my impressions with stock tubes that came with the MT....ok here goes.....
  
*Setup I am using*
      iPure20 (lossless songs)----AVA Vision Dac-----Mini Torii (stock tubes)---LCD-2 rev1 (Q cable)
  
*Begin of Review.....*
      First off I will go and say that I do not find the MT to be the typical syrup tube sound.  It is a tad warm sounding but I find this to be very musical without losing details.  For me it adds just enough of warmth that it sucks you in like a vacuum cleaner lol.  I believe that the MT does a wonderful job of staying true to whatever the recording has to offer whether it be a bad recording or a good one.   Below I will break the review into parts for ease of reading 
  
*Dynamics, Soundstage described below....*
      This amp has got the dynamics on all sides of the table IMO.  I have heard some amps with a relaxed presentation and others with in upfront and in your face.  IMO the MT is  a chameleon of sorts in this department.  I believe depending on how the songs are recorded the MT will either be in your face with punches that would make Muhammad Ali jealous or can be like a warm blanket that cuddles you on a cold night ....LOL not sure how else to describe it. Either way the dynamics are just wonderful!
  
      The MT  produces a great soundstage with amazing instrument separation and I can clearly hear where instruments are being played from. I found that the separate volume controls for left and right is very nice to find that sweet spot for the headphones.  To be honest at first i found this feature annoying but then once I got used to it I love it!  Its amazingly fun for me to listen to a song and being able to point in the air where the piano is playing from or the drums to the singer lol.
  
*The bass, mids and treble described below....*
  
      The treble is very clean and detailed sounding and with cymbals on songs I can just hear a wonderful decay that to me makes it all worth it .  The treble is not harsh even with my cd quality songs (which is about 98% lol)  The tone knob is nice and I do use it on some songs in my collection by toning down the treble on bad records and it makes these songs enjoyable to listen to. 
  
      The mids have that magic to them and just sucks you into the music and wont let you go...lol.  Alot of my songs I use it feels like the singer is right in front of me and on a few other songs it feels like I am a few rows back.  I believe it depends on the way the song was record.  Either way I get lost in the music and to me thats what its about   Hurrah for the MT mids!!!!
  
      The bass goes deep in my book and is very tight without blurring bass notes on songs.  On songs with a jazz upright bass, the bass sounds just so real that I am still amazed by it.  There is also wonderful "Punch" in the bass that just makes you want more (when called for in the music)...again Hurrah!!!! lol
  
*Conclusion*
  
 The Mini Torii is an amazing amp that just seems to do everything I have been looking for right.  It has great dynamics that let you "feel" the music which to me is whats its about.  It has a wonderful soundstage  for the LCd-2 rev1.  The sound spectrum is spot on in my book and the music just sounds "real"  its almost like being there in person.  The fact that this is also a speaker amp to me makes it just all the more amazing as someday I plan to buy the Decware Trapezium speakers.  
 I can't wait to be tube rolling as I am excited to hear differences but even with stock tubes I am very happy.  heh i just like to tube roll 
  
 Thats all folks, I hope you have enjoyed the review and as stated above these are all just my opinions of what I hear.  Remember its all about enjoying the music 
  
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
  
*------Everything Below is by Negura I am just copying to put it on the first page of this thread--------------*
*The orignal post can be found on page 77 by Negura*
  
  
  
 Folks I am going to start this post and it will be a long one. It's been promised for a while and it is the result of months of good old rollin'. Pictures first and I am sure you will know where I am going with this.
  
  
*Brimar 5R4GY*, Double D Getter, sometime 1950s, England

  
*Osram* *5U4G *(early milspec GEC U52 and arguably better), inverted cup, 1950s, England

  
*Sylvania 274B*, 1942, D Getter, Milspec

  
*RCA 5Y3GT*, double D Getter, 1952, black base

  
*USAF-596*, US Air Force version etc

  
*Gear used:*
 Decware Taboo MK3 (we all know this one) w. Amperex "Pinched Waist" 6922,  Amperex EL84s or 6P15P-ER milspec
 Ariand FV34-A (Single ended speakers amplifier), 2x12W, Psvane EL34
 Woo Wee (electrostatic headphones converter)
 Stax SR-009, Stax SR-007 MKI
 Custom made 96dB Front Loaded Horn Speakers (Fostex Full range)
  
*Music:*
 Stockfisch Reference Recordings (various genres: vocals, classical)
 Infected Mushrooms
 Pink Martini
 Leonard Cohen
 Katie Melua
 Pink Martini
  
*Introduction:*
 For several reasons the rectifiers have always been to me a fantastic and de-facto way to tweak the sound to my preference or system changes. Firstly these coincidently or not work with both my amplifiers (and soon to be 3) and also for this reason I found them a very worthwhile investement. It's an easy swap too. No need for gloves as there's a good base and a lot of the time there's only one. This is a comparison where I tried to be completely unbiased by the price. Some of the above are extremely rare and expensive, some less so and some are incredibly overlooked. But we all know everything is fair in audio. 
  
 Why these? I have a lot of rectifiers of this type and I feel the below represent the BEST of the best in my collection. They are all well burnt-in samples and sometimes I compared multiple samples of one. There are variations, but roughly within the same decade you'd probably be in the same ball park. The fact that I already selected these out of many different models, they are ALL already SO very good. This makes it sometimes super difficult to rate them, and obviously preferences play a signficant role. To try to hit an average I used two very different sounding amplifiers (Taboo MK3 - quite neutral, Ariand FV34A - classic tube sound), different coloration headphones, SR009s extremely neutral and the SR007 MKI warmer. The speakers are in between the headphones in tonal balance.
  
  
*Bass Impact/Weight:*
 Sylvania 274b > GEC/Osram U52 > RCA 5Y3GT >  USAF-596 > Brimar

*Bass Control & Tightness:*
 USFA-596 > Brimar > RCA 5Y3GT = Sylvania > Osram
 This was very difficult to assess because all of these are close. The bass quantity is plenty with all of them.
 I don't like bass weak tubes, and none of these is that. Also none of them really have flabby bass either.
 It is difficult to call a winner though. The bass driver control and added tightness can result in aparent reduced bass weight. This is why I wanted to separate the two sections. Overall when I wanted to choose one tube for the overall combination bass presence and quality it was either the RCA or Sylvania. If I want top control it is the USAF-596. All of them did a great job here.

*Male vocals (Tonality, Texture, Extension):*
 Sylvania 274B (WOW. To die for.) > GEC/OSRAM U52 (WOW Reloaded) = RCA 5Y3GT (WOW Incredible) > Brimar (Still WOW) > USAF596 ("Only" Excellent)
  
 All of these tubes are very special and excellent with mids. Was it not, any of them would have otherwise been excluded from this round-up. In this select company it is the Sylvania that comes first due to the most fantastic mids texture I have heard. I do not know how they were doing things back in 1942, but while retaining exceptional clarity the mids are smooth and with formidable texture and tone. This said it's almost unreal there is something better than the Osram (which is the milspec version of the famous GEC U52). This one is also extremely impresive. What I said regarding the Sylvania applies here as well.
  
*Female vocals (Tonality, Texture, Extension)*
 Osram > Sylvania 274B > RCA = USAF-596 > Brimar
  
 While I already had the ranking done from before, I wanted to try a few more songs and start from scratch last night. This time I started comparing the tubes in the reverse order of how I classed them with male vocals. The Brimar was very good but it turned out as the least impressive in this great company. It has excellent tonality, but the texture did the least for me. Again this is only compared to the others. Moving next to the USAF-596 - it was an immediate added sign of goose bumps on the test track: Pink Martini - Taya Tan. The texture and extension were both a step up. I long deliberated back and forth between the Sylvania and Osram with female vocals. They are exceptional and exceptionally close to each other, but a bit different: while Sylvania digs in deeper vocal detail with a bit better extension, I give a slight preference to Osram's texture and refinement.
  
*Treble Air/Clarity:*
 Sylvania > USAF-596 > Osram  > RCA > Brimar
  
*Treble Attack/Quantity:*
 Sylvania >  USAF-596 > Osram = RCA > USAF-596 > Brimar
  
 None of these is a bright sharp sounding tube. Yet there a differences. The only one that I feel coming a bit short in the treble department is the Brimar
 I really like the air and treble extension of the Sylvania and USAF-596. It makes these two tubes sound just a bit clearer than the others. However in the case of the USAF-596 there is something with the texture of the upper treble that does not sound as natural as the RCA, Sylvania or Osram.
 When it comes to overall treble quality with super air, extension and tone, it's the Sylvania that takes the prize.
 The Brimar was not going to win any prizes here. The treble has a slight rolloff, but not a deal breaker. Definetely nothing compared to some chinese production tubes. 

*Cold/Warm:*
 USAF-596 -> Sylvania -> Osram = RCA -> Brimar
  
*Speed:*
 USAF-596 > Sylvania > RCA = Osram > Brimar
  
*Clarity/transparency:*
 Sylvania 274b = USAF 596 > GEC/Osram U52 = RCA 5Y3GT > Brimar
  
*Soundstage size:*
 Sylvania 274B > USAF-596 > GEC/OSRAM U52 >  RCA GY3GT > Brimar
  
 The USAF-596 produces a very wide spacios soundstage. The Sylvania while still very wide in presentation, has additional height and depth. These two are the rectifiers for large scale orchestras and classical musical.
 The others are respectively more upfront with a gradually more intimate presentation that caters many modern genres and smaller ensembles even more.

*Conclusion:*
 Best overall you're saying? Firstly the obvious caveat is: This is a tube out of many in a component (or two) part of your system. I obviously can't provide the right answer for something I do not know. Second of all, preferences are anyone's. I always look for synergy and good balance, as no system is perfect or perfectly balanced. This is a reason I favour having some tube gear, as it facilitates fine tuning through tube rolling. For my almost neutral sounding Taboo MK3 I had most of them for an extended period of time in combination with diverse output and input tubes, but a good 60% of time the RCA tube was running the show. For my warmer speaker amp I prefer the Sylvania, USAF or Osram.
  
 I also want to add this should not be read by just looking as what came "first" and "last". These I repeat are what I consider my top 5 tubes. I personally think highly of each one of them.
  
*Value:*
 Value wise if I only had a small budget to spend on a rectifier, it has got to be the RCA. It's a no brainer. I paid 30-40$ for each of mine, including shipping to far away. 
 Moving up the cost next is Brimar. Unless I find my system a bit too bright, I would actually probably stretch to the USAF-596. They go for 100-150$ if you can find one that is. But if you ask and look around there are still a few. The first was difficult for me to aquire and then I found two more NOS. They are not going anywhere, that's for sure.
 The Osram was a very lucky find through a British army person. The base was loose and the guiding leg is missing. I don't have high hopes I will find another one for a non astronomical price, and yes it's a very special tube. The equivalent, the GEC U52, is avaible here and there, but expensive.
 Now the Sylvania 274B is the oldest made and most expensive of them all ... it's everyone's decision whether it's worth it. But if you decide it's not or you cannot find one, worry not. The USAF-596 or RCA are in the same tier.
  
 Notes: I also have more recent editions of some of these tubes. Moving into the 1960s and later... it wasn't quite the same quality with many times a drop in SQ.


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## WarriorAnt

Subscribed


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## krod3003

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Subscribed


 
  x2


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## Argo Duck

Subscribed x 3 - thanks WA.
   
  Taboo with VCAPS here, not quite 4 weeks on the clock. Will contribute impressions in due course.


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## WarriorAnt

Tink, How long did it take for your Mini to be made?  I know you were talking about either the Taboo or the Mini back in August.


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## Frank I

Nice and suscribed


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## tink97

Hey WarriorAnt,  I had ordered my unit back around the end of sept.  So in all from order to arrival of package it took about 3.5 months and I have to be honest I was not sure about if this unit was worth the wait, but after last night of listening to music though thoughts have left the building ...its a keeper


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## WarriorAnt

Post up some pics!     Will you be running speakers off the Mini as well?  I understand things are moving quicker at Decware.  seems like everyone on the globe ordered something around the same time you did.    
   
  This will be a good thread for sharing tube rolling in the Decware amps!


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## manveru

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Post up some pics!


 

 x2. I could stare at Decware gear all day.


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## tink97

Here is the little beauty, I am actually using it with my Breeze bookshelf speakers from Vapor audio.....and yes those are Ikea chairs as my speaker stands 
   It surprised me that this little thing had enough power to play decent out of the speakers as they are not that senstive.  I really wonder how good the Torri is lol.
  Its mainly will be used for headphones at the time being but someday I will get a pair of decware speakers or omega speakers I think 
  I want to let the unit burn in for a bit before I really sit down to try to attempt to give a good reivew


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## krod3003

mmmmm that looks damn sexy


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## manveru

Be still my heart! One of these days...


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## WarriorAnt

Thats actually the first photo of the Mini Torii I have seen posted that shows the scale of the amp.  It is a whole lot smaller than I realized it was.


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## manveru

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Thats actually the first photo of the Mini Torii I have seen posted that shows the scale of the amp.  It is a whole lot smaller than I realized it was.


 

 I know right? It's the same dimensions as a piece of paper.


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## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





manveru said:


> I know right? It's the same dimensions as a piece of paper.


 


  What!  I never realized that either!  I always thought it was at least twice that size.   How big is the Taboo in relation to the Mini?


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## Frank I

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> What!  I never realized that either!  I always thought it was at least twice that size.   How big is the Taboo in relation to the Mini?


 


   Taboo is7.25WX14.75 deep and weighs 17 p0unds mini torri is12.125WX9.125 deep and weighs 14 lbs.both are single ended pentode designs the Taboo is 6W and the mini Torri is . 3.3w into 4ohms


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## Nyvar

> How big is the Taboo in relation to the Mini?


 
   
  Longer and thinner.   7.1/4 x 14 3/4 for both Taboo & CSP2+  
   
  Speaking of which -- how long was it from winding transformers to delivery?   
   
  Mine started getting wound yesterday.   I think I'll luck out at about 3 months of waiting.  End of Nov - End of Feb.


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## Argo Duck

@Nyvar - 2-3 weeks. But mine was delayed by Christmas shipping (to New Zealand) too. Hopefully quicker for you.
   
  I was *so* tempted by the MiniTorii. The better _looking_ to me. But too many tubes to replace/roll <sigh>
   
  And I have no regrets with the Taboo


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## BournePerfect

Subscribed. I am about to pull the trigger on a CSP2+ and T1 within the next two months now that my financial situation is looking better. I've owned Decware's power cords and interconnects for a year or so now and they definitely improved the performance of my Ref 9 and C2-SA/AD2000 rig by a noticeable margin. Plus Steve's excellent customer service and LIFETIME WARRANTY(!!!) on their products makes them the most underrated amp maker on this site. Thanks for starting this thread!
   
  -Daniel


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## Nyvar

@AiDee:  Earlier this week they said 2 -3 weeks, but they said 2 -3 weeks 3 weeks ago too.     But now something is happening to it. 
   
   
   


> I've owned Decware's power cords and interconnects


 
  Do you have the Silver Xhadow?   It's been an ongoing debate with myself on whether I should upgrade my order to the Xhadow, or leave it with the regular connectors.


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## tink97

Yeah I had called them when I was waiting for my mini but they have great customer service and answered all my questions very patiently.  Its like that Tom Petty song....The waiting is always the hardest part....lol


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## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





nyvar said:


> @AiDee:  Earlier this week they said 2 -3 weeks, but they said 2 -3 weeks 3 weeks ago too.     But now something is happening to it.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have the Silver Xhadow?   It's been an ongoing debate with myself on whether I should upgrade my order to the Xhadow, or leave it with the regular connectors.


 

 What is the Silver shadow?


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## Nyvar

> What is the Silver shadow?


 
   
  TOTL RCA interconnects: 
   
  Here's a review of them.   Decware offers them as an alternative connector.  But they ain't cheap.  However, cheaper now than waiting and deciding to try them and buying a new set altogether.  Despite being something of a convert based on my experiences with the W4S tweaks, it's in the area of diminishing returns.   But still....


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## Argo Duck

@Nyvar - after I ordered and when I realised the queue wasn't moving fast I just forgot about it!! Luckily, my life was (and is) frantically busy...at any other time it would've been very hard.
   
  100% worth the wait though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  To sum up my impressions to date, the Taboo is unflappable - never sounds like it's struggling. Seems to deliver what the music demands at each instant, no more no less. By this I mean it doesn't seem to artificially heighten or reduce anything. This gives it a "mature" sound if that makes sense.
   
  There's an even-ness and balance in the way it presents piano notes - fundamentals and harmonics - that makes it easy to hear the layers and colors in the music. (I mention piano because this is the one instrument I have played and know well). I noticed when I did a DACs comparison last year that a bass or lower mids emphasis favors fundamentals; an upper mids/treble emphasis favors hamonics. Figures, when you think about it! If there's too much tendency either way it distorts the tone colors and possibly the musical intentions).
   
  Similarly, the shifting instrumental and vocal layers in music generally seem easier to hear and follow. I have heard subtle effects I simply never noticed before. I think that's probably related to what I just described about piano.


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## WarriorAnt

this thread is tempting me to start listening to headphones again...


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## Nyvar

> this thread is tempting me to start listening to headphones again...


 
   
  Assuming you're using speakers, Decware is still the place to go.  The CSP2 was originally designed as a pre-amp, and I believe is the only full sized amp they make that comes with hp out, it's an option at an additional cost with the Taboo.  The Zen Torii MKIII is an heirloom worthy work of art, and I have no doubt performs magnificently.  Just sayin' you don't_ have _to go back to headphones to enjoy them.


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## Frank I

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> this thread is tempting me to start listening to headphones again...


 


  Dude you are so ready to order the Deware setup/ Man the 944 speakers and the Taboo with the CSP2 and your so done. Get the Taboo headphone option and for like what you we e going to spend on that Cavalli this will cost use 3200 delivered and talk to Steve he may wheel and deal on three pieces to soften the blow. Man  oh man you there


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## tink97

lol


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## garysohn

I am interested in Decware speakers, such as the Housewrecker. Am I thread crapping?


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## WarriorAnt

Hey maybe I'll get these speakers from Decware.  the ones that come with a naked girl in the speaker.  Only thing is I'm a non smoker.
   
  http://www.decware.com/imperial.htm


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## Frank I

Ask Steve but then your in trouble if some broad knows on your door


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## Skylab

I still dig my Mini Torii. Great little amp.


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## WarriorAnt

How is the Mini Torii with the LCD-3's?


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## Skylab

Outstanding. The MT is one of my favorites with LCD-2 and 3.  Sometimes I think it's the best for those cans that there is. And then I listen to them on the Leben, and I think the Leben is better.  But both are excellent with Audeze.


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## HPDJ

Hello all,
   
  Just signing in to say that I also have a Mini Torri. Just arrived a couple weeks ago. The wait was a little over 3 months, then I had a rectifier tube blow, and had to wait a few days for them to send over a new one...all tubes are stock right now. 
   
  No major review/write up from me on this amp for at least a few weeks. Looks like Tink and a couple others who just got their Decware amps are waiting a bit as well. The wait was long for the amp, but I have no regrets thus far...I _will_ say that the amp is _*Beautiful *_and sounding great and that Decware customer service was top notch as always! 
   
  I also have some Decware Trapezium desktop speakers and will make some comments on those soon. Those are just SEXY and powerful.
   
  My set-up is great right now, but I still have some upgrading to do in the way of power cables/tubes/vibration control/power conditioning...but all that in due time. _And _my LCD 2 Rev 2's only have like 60hrs on them...This is my first venture into hifi (after years of research) and I think it's a strong one as it is so far. I want to fully enjoy each upgrade. Anyway, I'll try to leave a couple pics of how my set up is thus far (sorry for the low-res shots...I'll post better ones soon


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## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





hpdj said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Just signing in to say that I also have a Mini Torri. Just arrived a couple weeks ago. The wait was a little over 3 months, then I had a rectifier tube blow, and had to wait a few days for them to send over a new one...all tubes are stock right now.
> 
> ...


 

 Nice!   How did you know it was a rectifier tube?  Did it just not light up so it was easy to figure out or did it take some trouble shooting?  Also what speakers are those?  Can you describe what those metal switches in the very front, in the middle, and along the back are for.   Thanks for the pics.


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## HPDJ

Hey WarriorAnt,
   
  It was very easy to tell the tube was dead because it didn't light up and there was no sound coming from my right channel...in fact initially I thought 3 tubes died because my 6V6 and ECC 82 tubes weren't lighting up as well...I know tubes can fail sometimes so I didn't panic. I think the stock tubes are covered for 90 days so there was no issue to replace it...I actually got Steve on the phone when I called and I told him that 3 of my tubes were dead and he told me that the rectifier tube converts AC into DC and that it powers the output/input tubes and that once I replaced it, those tubes would be powered again. And of course he was right. The manual (downloadable online) was helpful in learning about which tubes were what. All the tubes really have a specific purpose, but it's really 2 amps in one so I can see how one might be intimidated by the amount of tubes as if all 10 are different...but that's not the case at all...it's really two sets of 5 specific tube types, with LOTS of flexibility of what you can swap them out for..
   
  Ok, so the 2 switches in the front are for switching between whatever you have connected to the inputs (2 sets of them on the back)...there are also a pair of output connections in the back as  well (for a sub or something else)...the little switch between the two center tubes is the tone knob on/off switch. When engaged it will ease any bright/harsh sounds your getting from your music source or speakers, when you rotate the center (in my case walnut) knob. When the switch is off it is completely out of the circuit. A handy feature that was intended to be particularly useful for any internet tunes from like Pandora etc that may be too harsh. But it's really something you can use anytime you feel necessary. It goes from subtle to very noticeable. The whole amp was totally intended to be not only used for a "major" hifi rig with floor monitors etc (I've seen pics of this amp driving big floor standing speakers!), but for desktop use next to a laptop as well...that's one of the reasons why it's so small...there are 3 sets of switches on the back. One set to turn on each channel, one set to turn the tube regulation on/off, and one set to engage the headphone input and cancel the speakers.
   
  The speakers are Decware Trapeziums. Check them out, they are one of a kind! Designed for desktop use _specifically_...no rear facing bass port that you have to worry about keeping under control against a wall...it has this "down-firing" bass port that puts the bass on your desk surface. It sounded interesting to me, as i was looking for something unique and this fit the bill perfectly...I really haven't heard it at it's best yet, but what I can say so far is that the bass is strong...meaning I don't feel I'll be needing a sub with these! But it's tight and not bloated. The speakers also angle slightly upward so you don't need to prop them on top of anything to get them ear level or anything because the crossovers were designed to be below ear level. 
   
  And build quality is excellent! It's hand made and I'm really pleased with it so far...more on them to come 
   
  -H


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## Nyvar

> The speakers are Decware Trapeziums.


 
   
  I've been thinking about these.  I don't need and can't use speakers on a regular basis, but decent desktop speakers would be nice to have, particularly since the Taboo will run speaker and headphones at the same time.  Steve has said headphones sound different with speakers connected.  Not better or worse, just difference.  People on the Decware forums lean towards better, with speakers connected, particularly the LCD-2.


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## Frank I

Quote: 





nyvar said:


> I've been thinking about these.  I don't need and can't use speakers on a regular basis, but decent desktop speakers would be nice to have, particularly since the Taboo will run speaker and headphones at the same time.  Steve has said headphones sound different with speakers connected.  Not better or worse, just difference.  People on the Decware forums lean towards better, with speakers connected, particularly the LCD-2.


 



 The Decware speaker has a planar tweeter and 8inch  driver . That would give you better and deeper bass abd more transparency in the mids and treble. Its a 1K speaker. I am satisfied with my Omega setup but I do like the way the decware monitor looks and would like to hear it but not in the mood to sell mine as they are really good also with the Hemp Cone driver. Check out the DM945


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## Lord Soth

Quote: 





tink97 said:


> ..... yes those are Ikea chairs as my speaker stands
> .......


 
   
  I'm also using IKEA chairs for my speakers. 
   
  Got a pair of "High Chairs" - a.k.a. Barstools with adjustable height from IKEA.
  They were really cheap and good.
   
  BTW, I've got a CSP2+ from Decware.
   
  Decware amps are definitely worth the long wait.


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## caracara08

im hoping to start a speaker setup later this year or early next year. would these be good? http://www.decware.com/newsite/MG944.html  i have zero experience in speakers and dont want to buy this and sell them etc like i did with headphones.
  how do they compare to anything its price or lower? also, i have the csp2+ which is a pre-amp (which i dont fully understand) but i am under the impression i would need another amp to power the speakers right? are there any cheaper options that would work well with the csp2+? i dont have the cash to buy the speakers and an amp like the mini torii or something although i wish i could.


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## tink97

Quote: 





hpdj said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Just signing in to say that I also have a Mini Torri. Just arrived a couple weeks ago. The wait was a little over 3 months, then I had a rectifier tube blow, and had to wait a few days for them to send over a new one...all tubes are stock right now.
> 
> ...


 


  Nice I am actually saving a little for the trap speakers right now.  I have heard really great stuff about them and they just look awesome to boot 
  Yeah I am in the mist of burning in my mini torii for the next few weeks and then i am moving, but hopefully i get a chance to give my thoughts before the move.  I want to get used to the sound a little before I start posting it lol.


----------



## tink97

Quote: 





garysohn said:


> I am interested in Decware speakers, such as the Housewrecker. Am I thread crapping?


 


  No worries garysohn you are not thread crapping....heh its a decware appreciation thread so that would include their speakers also


----------



## Raser

Anyone tried csp2+ with lcd2? Or any other thoughts of the amp.


----------



## Argo Duck

Yeah, Skylab's review of the LCD2 about 1 1/2 to 2 years ago mentioned the CSP2 IIRC. Look under the LCD2 reviews - it's worth reading along with many others there.
   
  He found it a bit rolled off in the highs. Steve confirmed the CSP2 (now 2+) doesn't suit orthos, strictly speaking. Some technical reason. That's where the Taboo or MiniTorii come into play. Being power amps rather than preamps I guess they have the current delivery the CSP2 doesn't have.


----------



## Frank I

The CSP2 will play the LCD2 but I ordered the Taboo when I owned the CSP2 and the LCD2 and the difference using the two pieces with the LCD2 is staggering There really is no comparison. I recommend the Taboo for the orthos as even with the HE500 it is staggering.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





hpdj said:


> Hey WarriorAnt,
> 
> It was very easy to tell the tube was dead because it didn't light up and there was no sound coming from my right channel...in fact initially I thought 3 tubes died because my 6V6 and ECC 82 tubes weren't lighting up as well...I know tubes can fail sometimes so I didn't panic. I think the stock tubes are covered for 90 days so there was no issue to replace it...I actually got Steve on the phone when I called and I told him that 3 of my tubes were dead and he told me that the rectifier tube converts AC into DC and that it powers the output/input tubes and that once I replaced it, those tubes would be powered again. And of course he was right. The manual (downloadable online) was helpful in learning about which tubes were what. All the tubes really have a specific purpose, but it's really 2 amps in one so I can see how one might be intimidated by the amount of tubes as if all 10 are different...but that's not the case at all...it's really two sets of 5 specific tube types, with LOTS of flexibility of what you can swap them out for..
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks.  A lot of this is info I did not know about.    I imagine the Mini puts out some heat with all those tubes.  I will be cycling my listening habits both headphones and speakers around the seasons here in the Sonoran desert.   Tubes from November  to May, solid state from May till November.   So I'll be most likely ordering whatever tube gear I decide upon in the summer hoping it will be ready by summers end so I have some time to research now but can't get anything now that will arrive just when the heat starts here.
   
  I'm wondering if the Taboo or Mini can power the PSB Imagine Mini's or possibly something more like the Anthony Gallo Acoustics Strada's which are my two current choices for a small listening space.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Thanks.  A lot of this is info I did not know about.    I imagine the Mini puts out some heat with all those tubes.  I will be cycling my listening habits both headphones and speakers around the seasons here in the Sonoran desert.   Tubes from November  to May, solid state from May till November.   So I'll be most likely ordering whatever tube gear I decide upon in the summer hoping it will be ready by summers end so I have some time to research now but can't get anything now that will arrive just when the heat starts here.
> 
> I'm wondering if the Taboo or Mini can power the PSB Imagine Mini's or possibly something more like the Anthony Gallo Acoustics Strada's which are my two current choices for a small listening space.


 
  If the pSB are more than  are less than 93DB they will not be optimal. Usually PSB also go below 4 ohms and usually Paul recommend 10W or more so these flea flickers need high efficiency and work best with 8 ohms speakers IMO.


----------



## manveru

Also one of the selling points of the MT is that it's supposed to run remarkably cool. One of the owners would have to confirm this...


----------



## Argo Duck

This is developing into a very useful thread - well done tink97
   
  (It's great to have speakers discussed too - completely _on topic_ as Taboo/MT are speaker amps too)


----------



## Frihed89

Garysohn....I thought only wheat farmers lived in the Horse Heaven Hills.  I guess a person needs headphones "up there" to stay awake. [I, former long time resident of Richland]


----------



## tink97

Quote: 





manveru said:


> Also one of the selling points of the MT is that it's supposed to run remarkably cool. One of the owners would have to confirm this...


 


  I have been having the mini torii on for five hours stretches and I feel that the only places it gets hot is the tubes and the area around it a little due to the tubes.  I can touch the base and pick it up without feeling any heat.  This is a wonderful little unit and I am throughly impressed by it, which I didn't think would happen that quickly.  Though this may be "new toy issue" lol  time will tell


----------



## tink97

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> This is developing into a very useful thread - well done tink97
> 
> (It's great to have speakers discussed too - completely _on topic_ as Taboo/MT are speaker amps too)


 
  Heh yeah I remember when I was debating on getting the decware gear I had a hard time finding alot of input about the amps other than a few reviews, which were great, or the decware forum which is also another great place to read info on these units.


----------



## HPDJ

As tink has just mentioned, the amp does not get really hot...its really the output tubes that get hot but its not like all 10 tubes are contributing a lot of heat. I think Decware was keen on making this a pretty cool running tube amp and I think they achieved that..


----------



## WarriorAnt

I'm waiting for a Taboo/Mini Torii shoot out with the LCD-2!


----------



## Argo Duck

^ That would be really interesting WA...surely there must be a head-fier with a Taboo and another with an MT _somewhere_ who live close?
   
  My money's on the Taboo


----------



## tink97

Lol


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> ^ That would be really interesting WA...surely there must be a head-fier with a Taboo and another with an MT _somewhere_ who live close?
> 
> My money's on the Taboo


 

 There is and I found him BUT he doesn't use them for headphones!


----------



## Nyvar

> There is and I found him BUT he doesn't use them for headphones!


 
   
  FrankI was the first to request a headphone jack, and it was only after that it became an option.   I don't think using them for headphones is all that common.  
   
  And, the parts have been pulled for my CSP2+.   
   
  I had to tell someone, and trust me, my roomie doesn't care.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





nyvar said:


> FrankI was the first to request a headphone jack, and it was only after that it became an option.   I don't think using them for headphones is all that common.
> 
> And, the parts have been pulled for my CSP2+.
> 
> I had to tell someone, and trust me, my roomie doesn't care.


 
  Good thing you guys blazed the trail!   Was it also that way with the Mini Torii, someone eventually requested a headphone jack for it?


----------



## Skylab

Yeah...I did


----------



## Frank I

It was Robs idea with the mini torri that got me thinking about the Taboo since I had the CSP2 and seen no reason to sell that and get the mini Torri so I asked Steve  and he designed the one for the taboo which as a little different because of the Hazen mod and lucid but its like Lucid mode is on all the time on the headphones.  Kind of cool as the two pieces covers all low and high impedance cans well.


----------



## Argo Duck

You guys totally deserve our thanks, because these amps are a truly astonishing combination with LCD2.
   
  (Well, the Taboo's the only one I've _heard_ but I completely believe Rob's description of the MiniTorii 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
  
  Quote: 





frank i said:


> It was Robs idea with the mini torri that got me thinking about the Taboo since I had the CSP2 and seen no reason to sell that and get the mini Torri so I asked Steve  and he designed the one for the taboo which as a little different because of the Hazen mod and lucid but its like Lucid mode is on all the time on the headphones.  Kind of cool as the two pieces covers all low and high impedance cans well.


 


   


  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah...I did


----------



## Nyvar

> Kind of cool as the two pieces covers all low and high impedance cans well.


 
   
  With, the possible exception of the HE-6 and large scale recordings, if I recall your thoughts correctly.  Makes me kinda wonder about using the MKIII and adapter.   Though I'm more likely to go with a Master 6 for a SS option. At least until I regain enough patience to wait another 3+ months and get cash to cover it.


----------



## WarriorAnt

I bet the percentage of Taboo, CSP2+, and the Mini Torii sales are now mostly acquired for headphone usage.  It seems everyone looks at them for headphones and then says "and the Taboo and the Mini Torii also do speakers".


----------



## Nyvar

> ..and the Taboo and the Mini Torii also do speakers


 
  at the same time, if one were so inclined.


----------



## tink97

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I bet the percentage of Taboo, CSP2+, and the Mini Torii sales are now mostly acquired for headphone usage.  It seems everyone looks at them for headphones and then says "and the Taboo and the Mini Torii also do speakers".


 

 Lol yep thats how I saw it actually, first as a headphone amp and then as a speaker amps as secondary lol.  My thanks to Skylab and Frank I for paving the way with the headphone mod!!!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Was Steve receptive to the idea or was he hesitant?


----------



## Skylab

He was pretty receptive to it when I spoke to him about it. People had been making speaker terminal "pigtails", but I wanted a headphone jack, with a switch between it and the speakers, and he was willing to do it.  I was a repeat customer of his, and he is pretty good about trying to accommodate his customers.


----------



## nigeljames

As anyone ever had it confirmed how many watts the Taboo puts out into 50 ohms?
   
  I asked Steve D once and he said a 'number of watts' which I thought was very vauge.


----------



## Nyvar

My interconnects shipped today -- to the billing address not the shipping address.  I both called and left a message and emailed.  Both within a half hour of receiving the notice.  I can probably redirect it if need be.  So I'm not overly concerned the Amps will be another story.   CSP2 is now on the bench.  Plus I received 1959 Pope/Amperex 12AX7, and a custom speaker adapter for my HE-6.   I'm running out of money and ways to amuse myself while waiting for the amps to get here.


----------



## NoGoodNameslol

I just bought a csp2+. I'm wondering how long the wait will be?


----------



## Nyvar

> I'm wondering how long the wait will be?


 
   
  I ordered mine end of November, if I'm lucky it will arrive next week, or the possibly the week after.  10 weeks?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





nyvar said:


> I ordered mine end of November, if I'm lucky it will arrive next week, or the possibly the week after.  10 weeks?


 


  I'm glad to see a company like Decware so busy!


----------



## Neogeo333

Good for them and kinda bad for the customer, i called to see how long would it take to get a Taboo amp and aprox. 10-12 weeks.  They told me they have like 90+ amps on a waiting list.  Even im not gonna wait so long for a new amp its good to know small companies like Decware doing great.


----------



## Frank I

Wow thats good to see Steve doing so well with the  amps. I just finished the V200 audition which is a 1K amp and the Decware amps are better significantly better. I am keeping the Ray samuels HR-2  around also but none of the solid state amps provide the real feeling of the Decware amps.


----------



## Argo Duck

*[Edit: math fixed *






]


----------



## Skylab

The reason that math doesn't work is that the Taboo and Mini Torii and output transformer coupled, and so the power delivery is impacted by the presence of the output transformer, and the relationship of the impedance of the winding in question to that of the load.


----------



## Argo Duck

Indeed Rob - thanks. My post could have been misleading if not read carefully. Fixed.


----------



## clowkoy

Just to give you an idea of the Decware amplifier waiting list:
   
  https://creatorexport.zoho.com/decwarehighfidelity/decware/pdf/Amplifier_Waiting_List/hAqfNhyE7rNXQFUDfyb7Y8G8r0RRrP82DMY814hPnsknzr8711vTq3QU2gaK0CVOwv4Kdps4kPsAeNCtpP8sawfYKv3E46OMpk6T/


----------



## BournePerfect

Add me to that waiting list. I just ordered the CSP2+ with the stock black base and with the stepped attenuator option. The 10-12 week delay actually prompted me to order now instead of later. I play on using this with some T1s and an as-of-yet-undecided high end dac. So...forthcoming impressions in 3 months lol. And thanks to FrankI for convincing me to pull the trigger on this finally-though I wish I had done so a year ago lol.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## clowkoy

Congrats! I hope you got the 5% discount...


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





clowkoy said:


> Congrats! I hope you got the 5% discount...


 


  Um,how? I don't think I did. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -Daniel


----------



## Nyvar

> The 10-12 week delay actually prompted me to order now instead of later. I play on using this with some T1s and an as-of-yet-undecided high end dac.


 
   
  That was my motivation for ordering when I did as well.   I then ordered the W4S Dac 2 and spent no small amount of time tweaking it while waiting.   There's a fantastic thread here on the Dac 2 I'd suggest checking it as part of your dac research.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Add me to that waiting list. I just ordered the CSP2+ with the stock black base and with the stepped attenuator option. The 10-12 week delay actually prompted me to order now instead of later. I play on using this with some T1s and an as-of-yet-undecided high end dac. So...forthcoming impressions in 3 months lol. And thanks to FrankI for convincing me to pull the trigger on this finally-though I wish I had done so a year ago lol.
> 
> -Daniel


 


  Daniel Nice. We been chatting about this for the past year so when is the T1 arriving or did you get that yet.


----------



## tink97

Review is up boys and girls...enjoy


----------



## Argo Duck

Thanks for the review tink! Though brief, I find it has all the requirements for a balanced 'meal' and is perceptive and to the point. Very satisfying to read.
   
  I find it interesting your impressions could describe my Taboo - except obviously Taboo lacks the fine-tuning options of the MT. Intriguing, as these are different circuit designs.
  Perhaps it reflects that Decware sets the same goals and standards (aka "house sound") regardless of what path they take to achieve it.
   
  Thanks again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  ps: I've rolled a couple of tubes to replace the stock JJ driver, left the other tubes alone. I too find the stock configuration very good.
   
  So far a 1950s Tung Sol 12AU7 seems to have given me the "best" sound. An alternative hypothesis is this tube has made no difference at all: it is merely that I rolled it in just as the Taboo reached a new plateau in its burn-in cycle 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  pps: I still hope to find time to compare Taboo vs Meier Concerto vs Schiit Lyr (GE 6BZ7) vs Lyr (Mats 6922) - however this is an exceptionally busy year so may not happen.


----------



## Skylab

My favorite driver tube for the MT is actually the 12BH7.  I like it much better than the 12AU7.


----------



## Argo Duck

Must give this a try!
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> My favorite driver tube for the MT is actually *the 12BH7*.  I like it much better than the 12AU7.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> My favorite driver tube for the MT is actually the 12BH7.  I like it much better than the 12AU7.


 


  Skylab, Perhaps you could list some of your favorite tubes for the Mini now that there is this devoted thread for Decware.


----------



## Skylab

I have settled on the Sylvania VT-107B/6V6G for the power tubes, Tung-sol black-plate 12BH7A for the driver tubes, and Sylvania 6X4WA for the rectifier tubes.  I use the stock regulator tubes - they were RCA and Raytheon, and there are not a lot of options anyway for those.


----------



## WarriorAnt

I think all those tubes just went way up in price!


----------



## Argo Duck

^ I took a look for 12BH7s (Tung Sol black plates) and I think I saw them going up in price right in front of my eyes!


----------



## Skylab

I highly doubt that.  The 6V6 is a guitar amp tube - all the audiophile users in the world don't influence the market for the 6V6, and all the head-fiers in the world are a small percentage of tube-loving audiophiles.  The 12BH7A is a medium-priced tube today, so that I would grab while you can, just because they could go up in price at any time like all NOS tubes (unrelated to my liking of them...)


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I highly doubt that.  The 6V6 is a guitar amp tube - all the audiophile users in the world don't influence the market for the 6V6, and all the head-fiers in the world are a small percentage of tube-loving audiophiles.  The 12BH7A is a medium-priced tube today, so that I would grab while you can, just because they could go up in price at any time like all NOS tubes (unrelated to my liking of them...)


 


  I'm finding the statement about the 6V6 to be true as I research the 6L6 tube which is another guitar amp tube.   I find myself drowning in a world of reviews by guitarists on the 6L6 tube and I'm learning their descriptive language and the manner in which they work these tubes in order to make an audiophile assessment of the 6L6 for my own needs.  In many ways it is fascinating to see how the guitarist pushes and distills a tubes response for the sound they desire.  They work a tube for its particular response and we plug them in to listen for their basic operational essence.


----------



## tink97

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Thanks for the review tink! Though brief, I find it has all the requirements for a balanced 'meal' and is perceptive and to the point. Very satisfying to read.
> 
> I find it interesting your impressions could describe my Taboo - except obviously Taboo lacks the fine-tuning options of the MT. Intriguing, as these are different circuit designs.
> Perhaps it reflects that Decware sets the same goals and standards (aka "house sound") regardless of what path they take to achieve it.
> ...


 


   
  Heh yeah my review was farely short, sorry I never meant to mislead anyone thinking I would write a long review.  Actually that is the longest review I have ever written, lol first time I actualy took notes while listening.  Anyway glad you enjoyed it 
   
  Yeah it would be interesting to hear a taboo and the MT I actually was on the fence between getting the CSP2+ and Taboo or the Mini Torii.  Finally decided on space and not wanting two separate amps lol.
   
  Could be the decware house sound not sure as this is my first decware gear ever though hoping not be my last


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





tink97 said:


> Heh yeah my review was farely short, sorry I never meant to mislead anyone thinking I would write a long review.  Actually that is the longest review I have ever written, lol first time I actualy took notes while listening.  Anyway glad you enjoyed it
> 
> Yeah it would be interesting to hear a taboo and the MT I actually was on the fence between getting the CSP2+ and Taboo or the Mini Torii.  Finally decided on space and not wanting two separate amps lol.
> 
> Could be the decware house sound not sure as this is my first decware gear ever though hoping not be my last


 
  Thanks for the review!


----------



## Argo Duck

tink no need to be sorry! It covered everything. IF only more of us could achieve your brevity


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Daniel Nice. We been chatting about this for the past year so when is the T1 arriving or did you get that yet.


 

  
   
  Not yet Frank! I'm waiting for Amazon to have it at $999 like they did a month ago. I know I might find it cheaper somewhere else, but I like their return policy in case something is wrong with it. Also, I kind of want to get my whole system (amp/dac/T1) around the same time frame now that I am in a better situation, plus I need to decide/research some dacs as well. I'd love to get a great AGD dac again, but feel like it would be some wasted money since all of their flagships run balanced. Which brings me to a wallet-cringing question: Is it possible to run 2 CSP2+s in a balanced dual-mono configuration?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -Daniel


----------



## tink97

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Not yet Frank! I'm waiting for Amazon to have it at $999 like they did a month ago. I know I might find it cheaper somewhere else, but I like their return policy in case something is wrong with it. Also, I kind of want to get my whole system (amp/dac/T1) around the same time frame now that I am in a better situation, plus I need to decide/research some dacs as well. I'd love to get a great AGD dac again, but feel like it would be some wasted money since all of their flagships run balanced. Which brings me to a wallet-cringing question: Is it possible to run 2 CSP2+s in a balanced dual-mono configuration??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   
  Hey Daniel I am not sure if I can be of much help but currently I have the AVA Vision dac and enjoy alot with the mini torii.  Though it has only coax and optical in no usb so if its for computer a spdif converter would be needed.  I also have the centrance dacmini and found it is also to be very good with the mini torii though for me I pefer the vision dac for the tad warmer signature it helps give.
   
  Hope that helps a little bit in your dac search   Good luck..
   
  tink97


----------



## BournePerfect

Thanks-that gives me more to research. I am a COMPLETE believer in Audio GD's TOTL dacs though as I've owned one in the past, but was forced to sell for financial reasons at the time. I just hate the idea for paying for balanced operation if I'm not going to use it. Hence the dual-mono CSP2+ question. I guess I want a TOTL dac that is single ended-perhaps a used Anedio D1 or something similar. I've got a couple of months to research though, and save more $$ as well. I'm probably looking at stuff within the $1-2000 range.
   
  -Daniel
  Quote: 





tink97 said:


> Hey Daniel I am not sure if I can be of much help but currently I have the AVA Vision dac and enjoy alot with the mini torii.  Though it has only coax and optical in no usb so if its for computer a spdif converter would be needed.  I also have the centrance dacmini and found it is also to be very good with the mini torii though for me I pefer the vision dac for the tad warmer signature it helps give.
> 
> Hope that helps a little bit in your dac search   Good luck..
> 
> tink97


----------



## Ultrainferno

Is there a dedicated TABOO thread anywhere? couldn't find it trough the search... thanks!


----------



## TIMITS

I became interested in the Decware amps are reading FrankI's excellent review and have visited the website a number of times.  But I've got to confess that I can't make head or tail of the CSP2+ & Taboo combination or the Mini Torii.  What reasons would one get one combination over the other?


----------



## Frank I

The reason I bought the Taboo was because I had the CSP2 which is a preamp/headphone amp. I alos wanted EL84 baseed tube amp which made the decision easy.


----------



## tink97

My decision to buy the mini torii was based on a few factors.  Which amp sounded better didn't really factor in too much as I figure it is Decware "heck it all will sound good lol"   
   
  Mini Torri was one component
  Looks amazing in my book lol
  Read great things about stereo separation on Decware forum about it.  
   
  Basically I am really noobie with tube amps but everthing I had read about decware tubes got rave reviews and they also don't stay on For Sale forums for long either lol.
   
  Anyways thats why i choose the MT and I can not be happier lol
  Have a great day


----------



## Argo Duck

This one's best. Begins with an excellent review by Frank I, followed by many suggestions of tube-rolling options.
  
  Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Is there a dedicated TABOO thread anywhere? couldn't find it trough the search... thanks!


----------



## markjval

Here a picture of Decware's new SE34I.3 amp.  Nice looking amp.


----------



## manveru

Quote: 





markjval said:


> Here a picture of Decware's new SE34I.3 amp.  Nice looking amp.


 

 Drooling...
   
  I love the little meters on the sides. I wonder if they are backlit? Where did you find this picture? I didn't see it anywhere on their site. Is there any accompanying info about it?


----------



## tink97

wow that looks really nice


----------



## markjval

manveru -
   
  Here's the link to the Decware forum thread:
   
http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1327279616/0


----------



## tink97

Lol my wife just saw the photo and said that the amp looks lonely with the tubes so far apart lol


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





tink97 said:


> Lol my wife just saw the photo and said that the amp looks lonely with the tubes so far apart lol


 


   
  Hint GO PREorder


----------



## Argo Duck

^ where do you plug the headphone in?


----------



## tink97

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Hint GO PREorder


 
  haha


----------



## Argo Duck

Interesting Steve probably has to drop his plans for Lucid mode on this new amp. I read his account - in the white papers on his site - of developing the Taboo (Lucid mode and everything else) over a long period. Fascinating.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





markjval said:


> Here a picture of Decware's new SE34I.3 amp.  Nice looking amp.


 
  Nice! Doesn't appear yet on the Decware site though.


----------



## Nyvar

I'm not really contributing anything, but I had to tell someone...
   
  I got the interconnects yesterday, and just got notice both the CSP2 & Taboo are on the bench.


----------



## tink97

Nice Nyvar  
   
  Grats on getting a little closer to getting the amps


----------



## Nyvar

Thanks dude.  Shortly after the CSP2 clicked to QA and testing.   Seems they're running about a week apart since CSP2 was on the bench for a week.   But closer, closer, I'm excited.   I was hoping to get them on the same day, but I'll take them as I get them.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





nyvar said:


> Thanks dude.  Shortly after the CSP2 clicked to QA and testing.   Seems they're running about a week apart since CSP2 was on the bench for a week.   But closer, closer, I'm excited.   I was hoping to get them on the same day, but I'll take them as I get them.


 


  Twice as much fun getting them on separate days!


----------



## tink97

Heh yeah it will be like two christmas days lol


----------



## Nyvar

> Twice as much fun getting them on separate days!


 
   


> Heh yeah it will be like two christmas days lol


 
   
  Don't laugh, I was focused on how I'm going to have to pay for a cab home twice.  
   
  But you're right not only will it be like 2 Christmas days, with the present you've been really, really hoping for, but it will also allow me to spend some quality alone time with the CSP2, and get it set up.  I re-arranged the stand last weekend, and have the 3 foot cable running from the W4S to the Lyr, the 18" guys will have to wait for the Taboo to arrive.  
   
  Exciting times.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Congrats Nyvar. Naturally you are obliged to report plenty of impressions as these amps bed in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Btw I got a clear couple of hours two days ago to compare Lyr & Taboo directly (both amps set to 80dBA with pink noise; two of my std review tracks).
   
  I started with the Lyr in stock 6BZ7. Both tracks sounded really good. At that point I thought this is a pretty high bar for Taboo.
   
  Then the Taboo (stock except for a NOS Tung Sol 12AU7 substituted for the JJ 12AU7 driver). Heavens, what a difference! So much more information in the low-tuned bass guitar and accompanying vocal of the first test track; more presence and definition to hi-hats.
   
  This particular track is a lightly instrumented and fairly sparse ballad. The next one (Rodrigo e Gabriela Hanuman) is a lot more busy. Whilst I didn't notice as much difference in attack as I expected, very apparent was a far more "full range" sound from the Taboo - everything evenly balanced, nothing 'artificially' forward. In contrast, the 6BZ7/Lyr was bottom-heavy and (maybe because of this) gave an impression of being muddled and slow.
   
  This was a worthwhile finding for me. I had been starting to wonder if the Taboo might be a bit bottom-dominated (which I don't want). Not because it sounds like it is, but because of how "richly" it renders the bass and lower mids. I wondered what could be doing this.
   
  I needn't have worried. It actually puts everything up there in pristine balance. I think my "bottom-dominated" impression is just that it's given me a lot more information in that area than I've had from (stock) Lyr or Concerto; hence I noticed it more.
   
  It's obvious stock Lyr versus (near) stock Taboo is not a fair comparison. If/when I get time I'll repeat this with better Lyr tubes (and probably report this in Frank's Review Decware Taboo thread, where I originally mentioned doing this comparison)


----------



## Nyvar

Thanks for a fantastic comparison, I'm also following along on the other thread.  


> Then the Taboo (stock except for a NOS Tung Sol 12AU7 substituted for the JJ 12AU7 driver).


 
   
  I thought stock was JJ 12AT7, am I mistaken, or did you request it be shipped a 12AU7?


----------



## Shubar

All these pictures and talk makes me crave some Decware...
   
  Must resist - already spent a bit too much this month...


----------



## WarriorAnt

I'm wondering if the Zen tori could also be fitted for headphones...


----------



## Argo Duck

Thanks Nyvar. WarriorAnt would chide me for delivering comments based on such a short comparison time, but the difference really was that clear! Any further impressions will take more time, as I'm sure SQ will be closer with better tubes in the Lyr. Also awaiting comparison is the Meier Concerto.
   
  I should probably have just said "stock JJ". When I ordered I commented my (then) usual hp DAC delivers 3V rms out. That's probably why they shipped the AU7.
   
  But getting great results with the 2.2V Stagedac. The one 12AT7 I've tried so far did show more gain but the sound signature wasn't quite to my liking.
  
  Quote: 





nyvar said:


> Thanks for a fantastic comparison, I'm also following along on the other thread.
> 
> *I thought stock was JJ 12AT7, am I mistaken, or did you request it be shipped a 12AU7?*


----------



## netbususer

My CSP2+ is way down on the waiting list.  It's going to be a long couple of months....


----------



## Nyvar

> It's going to be a long couple of months....


 
   
  I have felt your pain. 
   
  I found the first couple of weeks rough, then I was ok, until I hit 8.  Down hill once I got the notice they were touching the parts that would become _MY_ CSP2 and Taboo.  They're both in QC/Testing.   I know they'll ship, no matter what week it is, one day shy of what would be needed to receive it on Friday.


----------



## tink97

Heh yeah I was really anxious the first week of my mini torii and then it faded as I knew it was a few months away,  but once i say it in QC and passed then I got super excited again lol.  Its a wait well worth it in my book..


----------



## WarriorAnt

I just wish these amps had more power.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah but that really isn't the point of them...powerful tube amps cost big, big bucks.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah but that really isn't the point of them...powerful tube amps cost big, big bucks.


 


  Just a little more power though, 24-40 watts


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Just a little more power though, 24-40 watts


 


  You have a headphone amp for your headphones. I would ckeck out the Prima Luna Amps in the 35-40W range. They are very nice amps and run on EL34,KT77,KT88,KT90 and bunch of other including 6550. If you need the 40 Watts for about 2K your good to go. 2250  for the 40W model with Genelex KT88 standard and included. You will drive the Gallo nicely with that and astill have your V200 for your LCD2


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





frank i said:


> You have a headphone amp for your headphones. I would ckeck out the Prima Luna Amps in the 35-40W range. They are very nice amps and run on EL34,KT77,KT88,KT90 and bunch of other including 6550. If you need the 40 Watts for about 2K your good to go. 2250  for the 40W model with Genelex KT88 standard and included. You will drive the Gallo nicely with that and astill have your V200 for your LCD2


 


  Thanks for the tips, I'll give them a look.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I just wish these amps had more power.


 

 SE (single ended) amps have very clear sonics. They trade that sonic "clarity" for less power.
   
  I'm an SE convert. Used to own PP (Push pull) but after I've made the switch, there is no turning back for me!
   
  Everytime a friend or relative comes over to listen to my SE tube amp, without fail, the 1st thing they utter is "Its so *CLEAR*".
   
  I respect the alternate views of those who favour 25W and above PP tube amps but for me, SE is the way to go. (and EL34 tubes too!)


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> SE (single ended) amps have very clear sonics. They trade that sonic "clarity" for less power.
> 
> I'm an SE convert. Used to own PP (Push pull) but after I've made the switch, there is no turning back for me!
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the info.  I'm going to be driving a pair of Gallo Strada's and I was hoping one of the Decwares could do the job but I think I'm going to need more power.  Still a toss up now between tubes and solid state for the Strada's.  However the Taboo is still relegated for summers end for my tube addition to my headphone rig, driving speakers with it was never a consideration for me but would have been a plus.
   
  What SE amps do you like?


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> What SE amps do you like?


 
  I favour SE amps which use EL34s as output tubes.
  Decware sells a few variants of SE based EL34 amps. IMHO, you can't go wrong with any of them! 
   
  SE - because of the sonic clarity as explained above. You will find that most Decware amps are SE in nature and with good reason because of this.
   
  EL34 - because of the mid-range warmth and tonality especially for female vocals. On my SE tube amp, I can (and still) listen to *Ella Fitzgerald* all day long. Her sultry and life-like voice can melt any heart of stone!
  EL34 tubes, the good ones such as Mullards XF2s which I'm using in my rig also have fantastic low end bass. The usual weakness of tube amps in general is that they have very weak bass.
  Not so for the EL34 XF2 Mullard tubes.
  Hence my rig can also be used for listening to the occasional pop/rock music with plenty of bass.


----------



## netbususer

So does anyone here have the Decware Extended Range Radial speakers? I'm happy with my headphone selection right now... but I'm considering moving into the world of speakers. Would the ERR's + amplifier + source be enough to really have a great listening experience or are the ERR's more to complement floor speakers? What amp would be proper for the ERR's? (Mind you I already have the CSP2+ pre-amp on the way...) Any Decware speaker users able to comment on this for me?
   
  Thanks in advance!


----------



## tink97

Hey Netbususer,
   
  I can't really offer much help in opinions on those type of speakers but if you check out Decware forum they have a separate section for their products and they may have some good information there.


----------



## ardilla

Hi
   
  What is the output power specification on the HEADPHONE out of the *Taboo*?? I've looked around without success
   
  XX Watt in 38 ohm
  XX Watt in 50 ohm
   
_especially_


----------



## Argo Duck

I did do a calculation which I subsequently deleted as the presence of the impedance transformer complicates it. I could not be sure a result based on SS assumptions was correct and it was therefore speculative and worthless.
   
  Recently I found a paragraph in a paper which indicated that amps driving into higher impedance loads - as surely is the case here with the Taboo/50-ohm hp scenario, Taboo having been designed for 8 ohm speakers - reduces power but also improves headroom and lowers distortion slightly. I find this very interesting as the dynamics of the Taboo with my 50-ohm LCD2 are terrific.
   
  FWIW


----------



## WarriorAnt

Well, I'm out of the headphone game but I still want a Taboo.  Go figure!


----------



## Skylab

Since it is really a speaker amp, that makes perfect sense. Just get that and some Klipsch Heresey's and you're in business.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Since it is really a speaker amp, that makes perfect sense. Just get that and some Klipsch Heresey's and you're in business.


 

 alas it's too late.  I've already brought in the Gallo Stradas.  Just waiting on the subwoofer to arrive.


----------



## tink97

Who knows Warrior Ant you may still get a taboo someday   
   
  Still loving the mini torii and I should be getting a pair of HE500 this coming week to see how they sound with the MT.  The MT is sounding very nice and I found that when I swamped it with some different tubes the sound opened up a little more and the bass impact became a little nicer (tighter sound) The Sound still to me has that very natural sound with recordings done well.
  With the LCD-2 I found with this new tube the instrument separation is a better, not a huge difference as the stock set is also very good.   I can in no better way say it,then I am able pin point the placement of instruments better.
   
  I also have been using the tone knob to turn out the treble for my bad recordings and it most definitely helps to enjoy those songs.
   
  What still gets me is when I listen to music it just sucks me in lol!  I find that I will listen to music and when a songs ends I just figure one more song....its like an addiction lol.
   
  The tubes I am currently using are
   
  Russian 6n6c output tubes 
  EZ81 philips minwatt
  12au7 Mazda/Cifte
  The other tubes are stock.
   
  I got most of the tubes from Upscale Audio.  I found they are great to deal with when buying tubes as I have gotten great tubes without any issues.
   
  Enjoy the music everyone!
   
  Tink97


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Just purchased a CSP2 from another member here. Really stoked! should arrive by the end of the week.


----------



## Nyvar

> Just purchased a CSP2 from another member here.


 
   
  As someone who ordered one in November, got notice last week that they're packed, and hoping with fingers crossed they ship today so I receive them by Friday, I'm not sure whether to congratulate you, or revile you for your good fortune.   
   
  I'll be a good sport and congratulate you.  I guess.


----------



## mlantinen

Hey guys.  I'm really interested in the Mini Torrii with headphone jack. 
   
  Question 1: Can someone give me a total price paid including shipping to the USA?  I sent a message last Thursday, I believe, and I haven't heard back yet.
   
  Question 2: Currently, my interface is a ASUS Xonar Essence > Coax > Peachtree Nova. Would the Essence > RCA > Mini Torrii be a waste of time and sound aweful?   
   
  Question 3: Assuming an external DAC is indeed a requirement, what DACs are being paired with the Mini?  I'm thinking of going with a Peachtree DACit or maybe an MHDT Havanna.  Or maybe something from Schitt or Burson or even the new ASUS Xonar One?


----------



## tink97

Quote: 





mlantinen said:


> Hey guys.  I'm really interested in the Mini Torrii with headphone jack.
> 
> Question 1: Can someone give me a total price paid including shipping to the USA?  I sent a message last Thursday, I believe, and I haven't heard back yet.
> 
> ...


 


   
  I think i can help answer some.  I did find that it always took a few days before I would hear back from decware.  I actually found it to be quicker to call them when I needed an answer.
   
  I just used their website for your first question and the total for a stock unit with the headphone mod and ground shipping came out to be like $1831.05.  Now I am just guessing but I think that would be fairly close to the cost within US shipping.  You can double check by just adding the amp to the shopping cart and click on the mods you want and they tally up the total for you with different options in shipping. 
   
  I can't answer question two as I have external dacs
   
  I use Ava EC vision Dac and Centrance dacmini and just got a ava ultra+ Dac and I so far am finding that I love the vision dac with the mini torii, though my ultra is still breaking in.  
   
  I hope this is a little helpful for you bud 
   
  Tink97


----------



## Argo Duck

An answer - thanks to Chris J (one of our EEs on head-fi) who said this by PM (quoted with his permission):
   
_If the output impedance of the Taboo is virtually zero, then you will get approx. 960 mW into 50 ohms._
_But if the output Z of the Taboo is 6 ohms, then you will get approx. 2.39 W into a 50 ohm 'phone._

 CJ based the 6 ohm assumption on the Taboo schematic on Decware's site. This second figure, while 'only' about 4 dB more than the first, does square with how the Taboo "sounds" to me which is dynamic and powerful even with the lowest gain 12AU7 driver. It also squares with Steve's answer of "a number of watts" IIRC quoted by another of our members.
   
  I didn't pose the 38-ohm Zhp, but seems likely to be 3W or slightly more.
   
  In other news, the NZ dollar is on a rare high ATM, making me strongly tempted to order a CSP2+ now rather than later this year as originally planned 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Hi
> 
> What is the output power specification on the HEADPHONE out of the *Taboo*?? I've looked around without success
> 
> ...


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> An answer - thanks to Chris J (one of our EEs on head-fi) who said this by PM (quoted with his permission):
> 
> _If the output impedance of the Taboo is virtually zero, then you will get approx. 960 mW into 50 ohms._
> _But if the output Z of the Taboo is 6 ohms, then you will get approx. *2.39 W into a 50 ohm* 'phone._
> ...


 

 I assume that is per channel.
   
  I remember reading Skylab saying his Mini Torri puts out 2-3 watts per channel (not sure if that figure is fact or a rough calculation) into 50 ohms but I don't know the output impedance of the Mini Torri.


----------



## Nyvar

They are sitting in 2 large boxes next to my desk at work taunting me.  The next 9 or so hours are going to make the previous 12 weeks seem short.


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





nyvar said:


> They are sitting in 2 large boxes next to my desk at work taunting me.  The next 9 or so hours are going to make the previous 12 weeks seem short.


 


  Looking forward to your impressions with the HE-6 and in comparison to your Master-6.
   
  Had my Master-6 2 days and I must say I am very impressed.


----------



## Argo Duck

I based my calculation (with Zout = 0) on Decware's 6W/channel into 8 ohms, getting exactly the same result as Chris J: 960mW.
   
  I'm sure he would have been consistent and carried this (per channel) into his second calculation.
  
  Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> I assume that is per channel.


----------



## Skylab

The output impedance of a transformer coupled tube amp isn't likely to be zero ohms


----------



## NoGoodNameslol

I received my Bifrost and HD650. Currently waiting for CSP2+. God I can't wait to receive it!


----------



## Nyvar

There was a conspiracy of some sort today, involving issues with a monitor, my mac mini and W4S not playing at all well together.  However eventually everything got set up.  It's of course too early to offer any impressions, but I suspect I'll strongly favor the master 6 for the HE-6, and the CSP2 & Taboo for the HD800.   
   
  However, no picture no proof.  
   

   
  And the entire stand. 
   

   
  The guy to the left, the one with fins, is Cui, my listening buddy.   He's annoyed he now has to swim to the top of the tank to keep an eye on me.


----------



## tink97

Beautiful pics.  You have an awesome setup there, look forward to your thoughts after a little time


----------



## Argo Duck

Rob, you're right of course. That's what was wrong with my (more or less SS-based) calc 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The 2nd calculation (Chris J's) - not quoted in my reply to @nigeljames above - shows 2.39W/channel into 50 ohms and is the better one.
   
  A much more plausible result.
   
  @Nyvar - congrats! Beautiful. Would appreciate your thoughts on Taboo with & without CSP2+...
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> The output impedance of a transformer coupled tube amp isn't likely to be zero ohms


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





nyvar said:


> There was a conspiracy of some sort today, involving issues with a monitor, my mac mini and W4S not playing at all well together.  However eventually everything got set up.  It's of course too early to offer any impressions, but I suspect I'll strongly favor the master 6 for the HE-6, and the CSP2 & Taboo for the HD800.
> 
> However, no picture no proof.
> 
> ...


 

    What is that device in the lower left hand corner away from the rack?


----------



## BournePerfect

Well I just upgraded my CSP2+ order to be custom built with a Caribbean Rosewood (think LCD-2's wooden box) standard base and a gold attenuator. Should look beautiful when it arrives in another couple of months or less! I'll more than likely order the same base for a Taboo in the near future to go along with a possible set of ERRs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -Daniel


----------



## ardilla

Isn't the CSP2 better for high imp phones, while the Taboo only is suitable for <60 ohm planars? (quote: [size=x-small]It .... [/size][size=x-small]works well with speakers between 4 and 16 ohms AND Planar Head Phones (ear speakers) between 4 and 60 ohms.  )[/size]
   
  Quote: 





nyvar said:


> There was a conspiracy of some sort today, involving issues with a monitor, my mac mini and W4S not playing at all well together.  However eventually everything got set up.  It's of course too early to offer any impressions, but I suspect I'll strongly favor the master 6 for the HE-6, and the CSP2 & Taboo for the HD800.


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





nyvar said:


> There was a conspiracy of some sort today, involving issues with a monitor, my mac mini and W4S not playing at all well together.  However eventually everything got set up.  It's of course too early to offer any impressions, but I suspect I'll strongly favor the master 6 for the HE-6, and the CSP2 & Taboo for the HD800.
> 
> However, no picture no proof.
> 
> ...


 

 Nice set up you have there, looking forward to your impressions.
  I have to say that even unbalanced my Beyer T1's have never sounded better than driven by the Master-6. They have never had bass like this before! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  If possible, when everything is settled, could you try the Master-6 pre amp to the Taboo.
  The Taboo is still on my shortlist and would be running from the Master-6 so any opinions would be apreciated.
   
  Have fun


----------



## Nyvar

@Tink97 Thanks bud.  For the compliment and the thread.  
   
   
   


> What is that device in the lower left hand corner away from the rack?


 
  WA It's a fluval 405 (4 compartment canister splist 50/50 mech & bio) that goes with Cui's tank along with a not pictured AC110.  It's a bit of overkill on a little 75g tank, but all of my tanks have heavy filtration. 
   
   
   


> Isn't the CSP2 better for high imp phones, while the Taboo only is suitable for <60 ohm planars?


 
  Yup, but I won't let that stop me from trying the HD800 with both and deciding which works for me.  That was also part of the reason for getting the combo, they can one way or another handle most head phones. 
   
   
  
   


> I have to say that even unbalanced my Beyer T1's have never sounded better than driven by the Master-6. They have never had bass like this before!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I know what you mean.  I got the master 6 specifically for the HE6, and it's great, I can finally hear what they're really supposed to sound like.  But thought what the hell, let's try the HD800.  The bass was incredibly full. controlled and articulate, sound stage, detail, instrument separation all went way up.  15 minutes later the Lyr was packed up to go to work.
   
  I hadn't through of trying the master 6 as a pre-amp.   I like that idea a lot and will give it a try in a couple weeks once things begin to settle in, and I get used to the signatures.


----------



## Skylab

Great looking amps, Nyvar!  Congrats.


----------



## Llloyd

Anyone know the current backorder?  3 months?


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





llloyd said:


> Anyone know the current backorder?  3 months?


 

 If you ever place an order with Decware, they provide daily updates of all orders placed so far and still in WIP stage.
   
http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1308588670
   
  To answer your question, yes, it appears that currently 3+ months of waiting time is required.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> I based my calculation (with Zout = 0) on Decware's 6W/channel into 8 ohms, getting exactly the same result as Chris J: 960mW.
> 
> I'm sure he would have been consistent and carried this (per channel) into his second calculation.


 


  Hi Ai,
  Yezz'r, that is per channel.
  thx,
  CJ


----------



## SemiAudiophile

CSP2 is here. Please excuse the crappy phone pics.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





semiaudiophile said:


> CSP2 is here. Please excuse the crappy phone pics.


 

 Nice.  How is the CSP2 as a stand alone Pre Amp?  anyone using it just for that purpose?  I'll be looking for a Pre amp not too far down the line.  How many line outs does it have.  I'll need a line out to an amp and another line out to a subwoofer.


----------



## Nyvar

> How many line outs does it have.


 
   
  It has a mono out as well as L & R channels.


----------



## Audio Addict

I am less than an hour from Decware so maybe I will have to give Steve a call and see if I could drive over sometime and bring my HE6 and T1 over to have a listen to some of his integrated amplifiers that double as headphone amps.  I have the pigtails for the speaker terminals along with the 10 ohm resistor.  Anyone else interested in seeing about setting up a date and time to audition?


----------



## Skylab

SemiAudiophile that looks awesome!

If you want matching volume knobs, PM me.


----------



## tink97

Beautiful pictures SemiAudiophile!  I have no doubt you have a fun time listening with them.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Nice.  How is the CSP2 as a stand alone Pre Amp?  anyone using it just for that purpose?  I'll be looking for a Pre amp not too far down the line.  How many line outs does it have.  I'll need a line out to an amp and another line out to a subwoofer.


 
   
  It's excellent as a stand alone preamp. I haven't auditioned many preamps before, but to my ears it comes across as transparent, dynamic, and provides lots of juice for amplifying needs. Of course it was made to match the Taboo, so I'm not sure how well it will do with other power amps. But from reading the article from Decware, it seems he built his preamps to play with many amps out there. 
   
  Like Nyvar said, it does have a mono output, though I'm not sure what that's used for. It also has 2 inputs, another nice touch in my book. 
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> SemiAudiophile that looks awesome!
> If you want matching volume knobs, PM me.


 
   
  I think I'm gonna order a rosewood base down the line to match the Taboo. I know I said before that I like the gold knobs, but now that I have one, I think I prefer the wood ones better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  I got to play around with it for a bit yesterday. My early impressions are that I can't really hear a difference with the LCD-2 with the CSP2 in place, but with speakers, it made a pretty big difference. Soundstage seemed more 3D like and wider versus what you may believe from the placement of the speakers. Much more dynamic in general, I can feel the bass kick and rumble coming from my sub. And lots of detail being flushed out. It's just what my system needed. 
   
  I know the HD650 don't get much love anymore, but I wanted to add that it sounds amazing out of the CSP2. I swore I'd only listen to it balanced but it sounds damned good out of a good OTL amp. Probably one of the best I ever heard. In fact I'd say its equally enjoyable to listening to the LCD-2 out of the Taboo. Sometimes I even prefer the HD650 to stuff like _Adele_. Maybe not as technically refined, but just as musically engaging. The 3 JAN 6922 tubes it came with are incredibly well balanced and neutral. I think I spent at least 2 hours listening to the HD650 last night standing up, I just couldn't take them off!


----------



## Nyvar

> It also has 2 inputs, another nice touch in my book.


 
   That was a big plus when I was looking at it.  My original plan had been to use them for the W4S and the analog out from the Marantz.  Then along came the master 6, so right I'm only using the W4S since I can pass the analog through it to both the CSP2 and the master 6.  Ultimately I'll probably try them both with it as a separate input, but I doubt I'll hear enough difference to over ride the convenience of using the W4S to send everything to both amps at the same time.  
   
  My roomie's first take on seeing them was to ask what I was planning on bringing to life.  If he saw your set up it's be certain evil was brewing.  He's so not into audio.  
   
  (Psst, I had no idea what the heck the mono out did either, I just knew it was there.)


----------



## Frank I

The mono out is for sub woofers that have the mono in as my Outlaw does. I use the CSP2 mono into the sub and use the outlaws crossover and amplifier to drive the sub works kind of easy. Most newer subs have mono in as some receivers have bass management in their setup for using the subs.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

I switched back to the stock Russians (I think?) 6N1P's. They have a warm, fatter sound. Goes better with my vinyl. The 3 JAN 6922's are NOS I believe from looking at the boxes. They're nice too and have more of a transparent, detailed sound. Better match for the HD650's.
   
  I get a feeling the tubes in the preamp has more of a overall effect on the sound than the tubes in the amp itself. If I'd guess I'd say 60% preamp 40% amp, from what I'm hearing anyway. What tubes are you guys using on your CSP2? I'm thinking about picking up some more varieties.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





semiaudiophile said:


> I switched back to the stock Russians (I think?) 6N1P's. They have a warm, fatter sound. Goes better with my vinyl. The 3 JAN 6922's are NOS I believe from looking at the boxes. They're nice too and have more of a transparent, detailed sound. Better match for the HD650's.
> 
> I get a feeling the tubes in the preamp has more of a overall effect on the sound than the tubes in the amp itself. If I'd guess I'd say 60% preamp 40% amp, from what I'm hearing anyway. What tubes are you guys using on your CSP2? I'm thinking about picking up some more varieties.


 


  The driver tube will give you the biggest change in sound the little one in the front. I love the Genelex reissues.


----------



## Argo Duck

Great, helpful impressions SemiAudiophile - keep 'em coming!
   
  When you commented on the wider, more 3D soundstage with CSP2/Taboo combo, was this with Lucid switched on? Or it made no difference?
   
  TIA


----------



## SemiAudiophile

That was with Lucid mode on. I leave it on pretty much all the time as it always sounds better.


----------



## rivieraranch

I have tried the TABOO with Sennheiser HD580 headphones and have done an A/B comparison with the CSP2+. I came to the conclusion that I liked the TABOO headphone jack better than the CSP2+. The TABOO is more forward, with more sparkle and verve, not that the CSP2+ was a slouch in any manner. The TABOO with headphones reminds me of the DECWARE MLB amp that I once owned. That, too was an output transformer unit that DECWARE made from 2004-2006, right before the CSP was introduced.
  
  I just ordered DECWARE's new SE34I.3 amp and am waiting . . .


----------



## Frank I

The new amp looks inviting. It will run on Kt77 also and there are some great genelex reissues out there for that amp. I like EL34 tubes also. I think down the line I may peek at one but I love the setup now. Riviera I agree the Taboo with the CSP2 headphone amp driving the T1 were nice indeed. Also no noise no after what type of headphone I used with it. Kind of cool to switch back and forth too.


----------



## netbususer

One month down, 2-3 months to go...?
   
  This is taking forever!


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





netbususer said:


> One month down, 2-3 months to go...?
> 
> This is taking forever!


 
   
  I hear you! I believe I ordered mine the very beginning of February myself, and hope to have it sometime in April. By then I will have bought a TOTL Dac though, and my rig should be complete along with my T1. Can't wait!
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Nyvar

> This is taking forever!


 
   
  Yeah, but it will be so worth it.  I won't mention if you think it's forever now, just wait until they let you know they're winding your transformers. The worst for me was it packed on Friday and shipped on Monday. Let me tell you about a long weekend.....


----------



## Llloyd

Just put an order in for a taboo  I'm going to try to forget about it since it's so far away and hopefully it'll just arrive on my doorstep one day.  I figure it's a lifelong investment so it's worth it to wait a bit.  Can't wait to get some speakers. I've been wanting some decent ones for a while


----------



## donw

I've had a Taboo with LCD-2 for about 3 months now. I absolutely love the combination. The trouble is I can't stop myself from thinking about the LCD-3s and wonder just how they could possibly improve on the 2s. Before I do damage to my wallet I wanted to get some thoughts from others who listen to the LCD-3s on the Taboo and especially if they can compare with the LCD-2. I have searched around and have not come across anyone who has actually heard the combination. Anyone?


----------



## WNBC

Lets hope it is a terrible combination and I can buy your Taboo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





donw said:


> I've had a Taboo with LCD-2 for about 3 months now. I absolutely love the combination. The trouble is I can't stop myself from thinking about the LCD-3s and wonder just how they could possibly improve on the 2s. Before I do damage to my wallet I wanted to get some thoughts from others who listen to the LCD-3s on the Taboo and especially if they can compare with the LCD-2. I have searched around and have not come across anyone who has actually heard the combination. Anyone?


----------



## Llloyd

I'd like to hear some lcd3 + taboo opinions as well.


----------



## WarriorAnt

I'm considering the CSP2+ as a pre amp for my speaker rig but I'm not sure why it only has one mono out for a subwoofer?


----------



## Llloyd

Mono subs aren't uncommon really.  I think since it's a stereo preamp you might be able to use a Y adapter.  I'd check with Steve though.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'm considering the CSP2+ as a pre amp for my speaker rig but I'm not sure why it only has one mono out for a subwoofer?


 


  most new subs have a single input  as an option so it works well with my Outlaw sub


----------



## WarriorAnt

Well I spoke to Gallo about their TR-3D sub and they told me to hook it up using speaker cables from my amp into the sub and then out of the sub with speaker cables into the Stradas.   So the issue about the CSP2+ no longer exists.  I almost made the mistake of running a set of interconnects out to the subwoofer.  That would have been an expensive mistake.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Like Frank said, I think most newer subs can either have amplifier input or mono/stereo input.
   
  I was also confused on how to hook up the Taboo to my sub, when I asked Steve he recommended to use the amplifier input since the Taboo didn't have a sub out. Before that when I was using my Gizmo it had a sub mono out and I was able to use a y-adapter to hook it up to my sub.
   
  IIRC, it was something along the lines of "tube to solid state wouldn't have an effective bass response" so using the amplifier input bypasses the sub's internal amp, where as the mono input will utilize the sub's amp.
   
   
  Quote: 





> [size=medium]Adding a subwoofer line out to the Taboo is not possible due to the floating ground it employes.  However, we don't recommend using line level with subs anyway because solid state bass never mixes well with tube mids and highs.  We like to use the speaker level inputs on the sub so that the sub amp tracks the even order harmonic signature of the tube amp.  This makes the bass blend flawlessly with everything else.  [/size]


----------



## Frank I

Using that mono input into my Outlaw it blends seamlessly with my amp and speakers


----------



## WarriorAnt

Apparently, at least in my set up running a line out of the pre amp with one interconnect using a Y splitter or running two interconnects into a sub is good in a multi channel AV situation but in a 2.1 set up not so good with every subwoofer combo.    Many subs are like the TR-3.
   
  This from Gallo on the subject of their Stradas and TR-3D sub.  
   
  If your amplifier has both Left and Right channel Pre-Out's then run both.  Alternatively, if there is only one single Pre-Out the just run a single interconnect - however, in this method you can boost the bass by using a Y-Splittwer cable, thus splitting the single Pre-Out into both Left and Right inputs.  
 [size=medium]  [/size]
 [size=medium] The main problem with this setup is when using a Stereo amplifier, you are sending a full range signal to the Strada's, and unless the Amplifier has bass control, you are also sending a full range signal to the subwoofer.  The TR3's crossover network is only active on the High Level circuit.  The Low level input is more designed for a Multi-Channel AV amplifier, where bass frequency control is taken care of by the AV Amplifier.[/size]
 [size=medium]  [/size]
 [size=medium] In a 2.1 setup, I would actually recommend a different approach to wiring up the Strada's and TR3 Subwoofer.  This involves running speaker cables to the subwoofer and then from the subwoofer onto the Strada's.  This will make best use of the crossover and give the best control over the setup.  It ensures that any frequencies above the crossover level set on the TR3 are sent to the Strada's and anything below is played by the TR3.[/size]
 [size=medium]  [/size]
 [size=medium] - From your Stereo amplifier, run a set of speaker cables to the High Level Input of the subwoofer, taking care to connect the speaker cables to the correct terminals.[/size]
 [size=medium] - The run a second set of speaker cables from the subwoofers High Level Output to the Strada's.[/size]
 [size=medium] - On the subwoofer, set the Level to 50%, and crossover to around 70-90Hz.[/size]
 [size=medium] - Phase should be at 0º if the sub is on the same plane as the Strada's, or 180º if it's behind the listening position.[/size]
 [size=medium] - Once music is playing use your ears to accurately adjust the crossover and level controls to give the best sound.[/size]


----------



## Skylab

semiaudiophile said:


> Like Frank said, I think most newer subs can either have amplifier input or mono/stereo input.
> 
> I was also confused on how to hook up the Taboo to my sub, when I asked Steve he recommended to use the amplifier input since the Taboo didn't have a sub out. Before that when I was using my Gizmo it had a sub mono out and I was able to use a y-adapter to hook it up to my sub.
> 
> IIRC, it was something along the lines of "tube to solid state wouldn't have an effective bass response" so using the amplifier input bypasses the sub's internal amp, where as the mono input will utilize the sub's amp.




No, that is NOT what he was saying. The sub is using its own amp either way, I can assure you. The Taboo is not driving the sub from an amp perspective, no way could it. What you are doing by using the speaker taps and running those to the sub is you are feeding the sub all the same colorations that you are feeding the main speakers. That is essentially what Steve was saying, and what he is saying provides a good "blending", sonically. But the sub amp is still driving the sub, and the subs crossover is still active, both of which are totally necessary.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

I see...thanks for the clarification Skylab. So when using the mono output to sub, it doesn't add coloration as you would by using speaker taps?


----------



## Skylab

Not in the same way, because the mono out is line level and would be derived prior to the power amplification stage of the Decware, whereas the speaker outs are coming off the output transformer, and output transformers definitely have a "sound".


----------



## Nyvar

Flowers, here about, are blooming, and so is my Decware CSP2+ and Taboo combo.  At this point I’m guessing I’m somewhere around 250 hours give or take, and its true potential is beginning to show.  If you’re waiting for one, the other, or both to arrive and have no experience with Decware, you won’t be disappointed.  However, be aware it’s quite like adopting a young man whose voice is just beginning to change.  At least 200 hundred hours before you have any idea what’s going to hit your ears.  You’ll get a phrase or a couple minutes of rich purity, then it’s jumping all over the place.  Made me glad at times I had the HE-6 and Master 6.  I got the upgraded v-caps so the burn in isn’t finished yet, but there’s consistency, and top notch quality, and the next couple hundred hours will be a pleasure.  

I hope you’ll forgive  my less than audiophilesque description of my impressions.  The CSP2+ does a wonderful job with the HD800.   Adding strength and control to the bass, widening the sound stage (yes, even with the HD800 the soundstage can get wider and deeper), increasing details, and instrument placement.  However, there are no two ways about it, HD800 out of the Taboo with the CSP2+ as a preamp is, for me, significantly better.  Take all the above, and double it, easily.  With the HD800, probably the largest improvement was with the bass.  Always, I felt an area where they were lacking, at least compared to all the other areas where they excel.  It gained not only depth, and fullness, but control.  

Everyone has something they listen for that, when well done in a challenging piece of music, lets you know whether or not you have a winner.  I listen to lots of classical written for the most part written after 1850.  I have aspects of solo piano I want to hear, and strings, most definitely.  I know where the instruments should be, and I want them there, and in the proper relationship to each other.  However, my sticking point, my pet peeve, is brass.  I’ve heard more bleating trombones, blatting horns, and farting tubas than I care to think about.  Now though, horns are smooth, deep, and full, trombones rich and noble, and tubas, at long last sound as if they belong in the orchestra rather than the outhouse. 

From top to bottom, there’s evenness in detail, clarity, and control.  The increase in air, or separation and balance of the instruments has enabled to me hear details so subtle I’ve missed them before, such as the gentle use of snares in Arnold’s 6th.  More than once, the over all refinement has swept me away from whatever I might have been doing while listening, and snared my complete and undivided attention.   If you want a visual analogy, it’s like going from an iPad 2 to the new iPad with retina display.  


   
  Quote: 





> [size=19px][color=rgb(255, 68, 0)][font=Arial]nigeljames [/font][/color][/size]
> If possible, when everything is settled, could you try the Master-6 pre amp to the Taboo.
> The Taboo is still on my shortlist and would be running from the Master-6 so any opinions would be appreciated.


 
   

The CSP2+ & Taboo is really not for the HE-6.  HE-6 is fine with “small” non-challenging music, like acoustic.  At best pleasant, delightful, but impressive? Not so much so.  Basically the HE-6 through the Master 6 beats it into the ground coming and going.  However, yesterday I rearranged my room, and with it my tower, which gave me the opportunity to patch in a pair of signal cable silver resolution interconnects I wasn’t using from the Master 6 to use with the Taboo.   

About all I can say is “Whoa!”  This combo can drive the HE-6.  It brings in the detail and clarity, that was missing.  With the CSP2, to get anything even close to reasonable I’d have the volume at roughly 1, and for heavy orchestral music, it just couldn’t cut it.   With the Master-6 as a pre amp, I’ve spent the morning just rolling through my test track playlist, volume at about 9 for the most part.  It’s doing a great job.  Particularly with instrument separation, clarity and detail in the bass.  The Taboo does add warmth to an already somewhat warm signature, but not excessively so, and without loss of detail.  I want to say there’s better instrument placement in a slightly wider sound stage, but I’d have to do more direct A/B listening to be willing to stand behind that.  However, I'm planning on going back to my usual set up, and returning the HE-6 to the Master 6, and the HD800 to the CSP2 combo.  Maybe tomorrow. I'll want to try the HD800 with this set up as well first and right now the HE-6 are not quite ready to leave my head. 

I’m at a fantastic “resting place”.  I don’t feel I’m wanting or needing anything else at this point. Ok, I’ll confess: This summer I suspect I’ll explore tube rolling.  I also definitely see a pair of Decware desktop speakers coming in at some point in the next few months.  Plus I could use a couple more Venom 3s.  But those are just refining tweaks, right?


----------



## Llloyd

Thanks for the impressions Nyvar.  My taboo cannot come soon enough 
   
  I'll probably be picking up some of decware's desktop speakers of my own in the future as well.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Decware love.


----------



## Nyvar

Great pictures. makes me want tube rings just for the coolness factor.


----------



## Llloyd

Yeah wonderful pics.  The wood looks great on the contemporary one.


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





nyvar said:


> Flowers, here about, are blooming, and so is my Decware CSP2+ and Taboo combo.  At this point I’m guessing I’m somewhere around 250 hours give or take, and its true potential is beginning to show.  If you’re waiting for one, the other, or both to arrive and have no experience with Decware, you won’t be disappointed.  However, be aware it’s quite like adopting a young man whose voice is just beginning to change.  At least 200 hundred hours before you have any idea what’s going to hit your ears.  You’ll get a phrase or a couple minutes of rich purity, then it’s jumping all over the place.  Made me glad at times I had the HE-6 and Master 6.  I got the upgraded v-caps so the burn in isn’t finished yet, but there’s consistency, and top notch quality, and the next couple hundred hours will be a pleasure.
> 
> I hope you’ll forgive  my less than audiophilesque description of my impressions.  The CSP2+ does a wonderful job with the HD800.   Adding strength and control to the bass, widening the sound stage (yes, even with the HD800 the soundstage can get wider and deeper), increasing details, and instrument placement.  However, there are no two ways about it, HD800 out of the Taboo with the CSP2+ as a preamp is, for me, significantly better.  Take all the above, and double it, easily.  With the HD800, probably the largest improvement was with the bass.  Always, I felt an area where they were lacking, at least compared to all the other areas where they excel.  It gained not only depth, and fullness, but control.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks nyvar been looking forward to your impressions.
   
  Just a couple of questions
  1. If I read your comments properly you are saying the Master-6 - Taboo drives the HE-6 very well and better than CSP2 - Taboo and that the Master-6-Taboo has more power for the HE6's. If so I find this a little strange (the power part) as the Master-6 puts out 9 volts from its pre-amp and the CSP2 up to 23volts if my memory is correct.
   
  2. Have you been able to compare Master-6 direct,Master-6 -Taboo and CSP2 -Taboo driving your HD800. If so any opinions.
   
  3. It also seems that the Taboo when driven by a preamp does a better job than the CSP2 driving high impedance phones (at least the HD800's). Do you agree on this?
   
  Thanks and enjoy


----------



## tink97

Great review NVYAR!  A wonderful read and I totally understand about finding a good resting place from upgrading heh.  I found that also with my Mini Torii and have not looked at anything else for my home rig.
  Enjoy the music everyone 
  Tink97


----------



## Nyvar

NigelJames,
  
 First, I owe you an unexpected debt.  You made me realize something I'd forgotten about the CSP2+.  So I owe you one, and you and everyone else may feel free to laugh at my idiocy.   
  
  


> 1. If I read your comments properly you are saying the Master-6 - Taboo drives the HE-6 very well and better than CSP2 - Taboo and that the Master-6-Taboo has more power for the HE6's. If so I find this a little strange (the power part) as the Master-6 puts out 9 volts from its pre-amp and the CSP2 up to 23volts if my memory is correct.


 
   
 You indeed have every right to be puzzled, even though my statements stand, but in the context of my poor testing.   The point I'd quite forgotten is the CSP2+ has variable output.  I tested at the default setting, so I was comparing the CSP2+ set at 4 volts, vs. the Master 6 with 9.5 volts via RCA.  To give an accurate comparison of the two, what I need to do is up the output on the CSP2+ (up to 36 volts) and to give the Master 6 a fair shot, use xlr to RCA out which will bump it up to 19 volts.  So forget the comparison in terms of what you're looking for.  Probably next weekend before I can reset the Master 6 (it's awkward in my set up to get to the back.  
  
  


> 2. Have you been able to compare Master-6 direct,Master-6 -Taboo and CSP2 -Taboo driving your HD800. If so any opinions.


 
   
  I can say the HD800 str8 out of the Master 6 is great.  However, let me hold on comparisons for now.  I did try the above set up briefly with the HD800 but not enough to really feel comfortable voicing an opinion.  It can take my ears a while to adjust to a new signature enough to become objective about it.  
  
   


> 3. It also seems that the Taboo when driven by a preamp does a better job than the CSP2 driving high impedance phones (at least the HD800's). Do you agree on this?


 
   
  I would say at least for me and the HD800, yes, hands down, no question.   Someone else mentioned much the same, and my thoughts matched theirs.  The CSP2+ is excellent with high impedance headphones (at least for me with the HD800), but the Taboo with the CSP2+ as a pre amp, is markedly better.   
   
  Again, thanks and I owe you one.


----------



## Lord Soth

For those who have placed an order with Decware or those who are thinking of ordering from Decware, here's some info which might be useful to you.
   
  Since I've been one of Decware's [*PATIENT*] customers who has been through the 3 to 4 months of waiting time, I thought I could chip in and explain the various stages of waiting involved.
 BTW, the long wait for anything you order from Decware is worth it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 All I can say is that if you are still waiting, please be patient! Let's not rush any of the maestro engineers when they are working on your precious amp... hee hee
 Given how busy the Decware staff are, normally you will only be contacted again (in Stage 7 details below) after you have placed your order.
   
  After you have placed an online order with Decware, your name and order details will appear in the following PDF list after 1 to 2 days
https://creatorexport.zoho.com/decwarehighfidelity/decware/pdf/Amplifier_Waiting_List/
   
  The above link is also found in the Decware forums over here
http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1308588670
  STATUS and what it actually means in the Decware PDF list.

 Stage 1 - NEW. This simply means that your order has been received and recorded in the system.

 Stage 2 - PARTS PULLED. Spare parts for your amp have been retrieved.

 Stage 3 - Winding Transformers. Duh...

 Stage 4 - On Bench. Your amp is still in the WIP stage.

 Stage 5 - Testing QC. YES! Your amp should be ready around 10 days time (normally) max.

 Stage 6 - Packed. Your amp has been packed. BUT it has not been shipped out yet.

 Stage 7 - [BLANK]. When you name finally disappears from the list, CONGRATS! It means that your finished amp has finally been sent to the courier man for delivery. At this stage, if you are paying by Credit Card, your card will be charged. Decware will also send an invoice to you via e-mail.

 Hope this helps anyone who is still waiting.


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





nyvar said:


> NigelJames,
> 
> First, I owe you an unexpected debt.  You made me realize something I'd forgotten about the CSP2+.  *So I owe you one, and you and everyone else may feel free to laugh at my idiocy.   *
> 
> ...


 

 OK I have stopped laughing now  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I had sent a e-mail to Decware asking if the 9volt output would be to much for the Taboo. Never got a reply so checked on their website and noticed the voltage of the CSP2 which basically answered my question for me.
   
  The CSP2+Taboo should power the HE-6's. I mean my old Roc and Woo6se never clipped or ran out of steam although now I have the Master-6 its pretty obvious the difference more power brings to the table.
  I know Frank I had some clipping issues but Skylad could not replicate the clipping with the same tracks using his less powerful mini Torii.
   
  Looking forward to your updated opinions.


----------



## Frank I

There you go again comparing an apple to an orange. The he6 clipped on demanding classical recordings especially on the Reference recording label specifically the Copland which sklyab does not own. The mini torri is another different amp entirely frmt he two piece Taboo/CSP2 combo. The HE6 did not clip on acoustic small scale recordings and most pop recordings feed it a SACD or 24/96 HDCD of classical recordings and the amp will struggle with the HE6. Rob used a RCA  we both had and had no issue with the Mini Torri but he also could not play high impedance cans on his torri wiitutt noise or hiss and the Taboo plays them effortless. Again Nigell comparing an apple to an orange will always get a different not accurate result. I suggest anyone with the HE6 and CSP2.Taboo combo purchase the RR album of Copland play it and see the results.


----------



## khaine1711

Hmm this one?
   
   
http://www.referencerecordings.com/minnesota.asp#rr93

  Kinda off topic but does your CPS2 + T1 clip with this recording 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





frank i said:


> There you go again comparing an apple to an orange. The he6 clipped on demanding classical recordings especially on the Reference recording label specifically the Copland which sklyab does not own. The mini torri is another different amp entirely frmt he two piece Taboo/CSP2 combo. The HE6 did not clip on acoustic small scale recordings and most pop recordings feed it a SACD or 24/96 HDCD of classical recordings and the amp will struggle with the HE6. Rob used a RCA  we both had and had no issue with the Mini Torri but he also could not play high impedance cans on his torri wiitutt noise or hiss and the Taboo plays them effortless. Again Nigell comparing an apple to an orange will always get a different not accurate result. I suggest anyone with the HE6 and CSP2.Taboo combo purchase the RR album of Copland play it and see the results.


----------



## Frank I

thats the recording and its a majestic and magnificent recording as are most RR recordings. When I owned the HE6 and the Taboo yes indeed it clipped on that recording. That recording in particular will challenge any system.


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





frank i said:


> There you go again comparing an apple to an orange. *The he6 clipped on demanding classical recordings especially on the Reference recording label specifically the Copland which sklyab does not own*. The mini torri is another different amp entirely frmt he two piece Taboo/CSP2 combo. The HE6 did not clip on acoustic small scale recordings and most pop recordings feed it a SACD or 24/96 HDCD of classical recordings and the amp will struggle with the HE6. Rob used a RCA  we both had and had no issue with the Mini Torri but he also could not play high impedance cans on his torri wiitutt noise or hiss and the Taboo plays them effortless. Again Nigell comparing an apple to an orange will always get a different not accurate result. I suggest anyone with the HE6 and CSP2.Taboo combo purchase the RR album of Copland play it and see the results.


 

 Sorry I thought Skylab said he had tried the same recording not a different version of the same music. Did you find any other recordings to clip.
   
  The main reason I am still interested in the Taboo is that I recently re-purchased the LCD2's only the R2 version this time and they sound absolutely stunning out of the master-6. So the LCD's are my favourite headphone at the moment so the Taboo would not be bought primarily or solely for the HE-6's which was my original intent.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> Sorry I thought Skylab said he had tried the same recording not a different version of the same music. Did you find any other recordings to clip.
> 
> The main reason I am still interested in the Taboo is that I recently re-purchased the LCD2's only the R2 version this time and they sound absolutely stunning out of the master-6. So the LCD's are my favourite headphone at the moment so the Taboo would not be bought primarily or solely for the HE-6's which was my original intent.


 


  mostly classical large scale dynamic recordings is where it would clip the amp. It just ran out of steam but the HE500 sailed on the same recordings lcd2 will not clip the Taboo


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Anyone ever listen to the Zu Omens? I'm trying to decide between those and the Decware MG944's as my next speakers. They both appear to be efficient enough to be driven by CSP2/Taboo combo and within the same price bracket. What to choose??


----------



## donw

I asked earlier whether anyone has heard the Taboo with LCD-3 and it seems that no one had. Well, curiosity got the better of me and I bought a pair of LCD-3s for myself. I can definitely say that the Taboo is as good with the LCD-3s as it is with the LCD-2s. I had some concern that some background noise might come through since the 3s are slightly more efficient than the 2s but there is no worry, the background is as black as could be, at least to my ears. 

My CSP2 came in about the same time as well. With the CSP2 the Taboo just seems to step up a notch. And I thought it was great before, both for headphones and my Decware MG944 speakers. That was with a MiniMax DAC Plus connected directly to Taboo. The MiniMax puts out ~2.5V which is on the higher side for line level source so that helped. But with the CSP2 the Taboo is fuller, has more punch, seems to be more musical and all in all has a more satisfying feeling about it.


----------



## donw

I can say that if you get the MG944s to go with the Taboo you will not be disappointed. Unless you want to crank up the volume to rock concert levels. You could say that the two are made to go together, they have a certain synergy... Also, I never cease to be amazed at the depth and quality of the base these speakers produce. How do they do it with those little 6 inch drivers? I have absolutely zero desire for sub woofers, and I like my base....


----------



## netbususer

2 and a half months I've been waiting for my CSP2+ now... I'm getting anxious!  I've almost made it to page 2!
   
  I am considering the Taboo and the MG944/945 (Whichever version it is now...) but I'd honestly rather just jump into the ERR's but don't really know which amp would be best for them... I would think the Taboo with CSP2+ as a pre-amp would power them... but I'm afraid it may not be enough power. On the Decware forums I was reading that some people felt that the Torii needed a good pre-amp to power the ERR's which blows my mind at 25W/channel! Maybe a mini torii with headphone jack would be better...?
   
  Doesn't matter right now as my wife would absolutely kill me if I spent another 3k any time soon. I've spent a grand this month on interconnects and tons of tubes just getting ready for my CSP2+ to arrive!


----------



## tink97

Heh nice man, yeah the wait feels like forever but it is well worth it, hang in there bud you are almost there lol.


----------



## donw

I'd take any claim that the Torri can't drive the ERRs with a big grain of salt. My understanding is the Torri doesn't benefit from a pre-amp, unless you aren't happy with your source and want to use a pre-amp to "fix" it. I know people are very happy with Taboo + CSP2 + ERR combination. I have the MG944s (the current version) with Taboo + CSP2 and am very happy, but if I were doing it again I'd very seriously consider the ERRs, because I often have music playing when I am moving around and/or sitting somewhere that isn't exactly optimal for best sound stage of conventional speakers. I'd love to try them. My one concern would be base response compared to MG944s. MG944s have outstanding base.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





semiaudiophile said:


> Decware love.


 
   
  Is that wood knob standard, special order or sourced somewhere else?  Much better looking than the gold in my opinion.  Also does anyone know where the headphone jack is placed on the Taboo?  More opinions on the Taboo versus other similarly priced tube and solid state amps using the LCD-2 Rev2 would be great.


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## netbususer

Quote: 





donw said:


> I'd take any claim that the Torri can't drive the ERRs with a big grain of salt. My understanding is the Torri doesn't benefit from a pre-amp, unless you aren't happy with your source and want to use a pre-amp to "fix" it. I know people are very happy with Taboo + CSP2 + ERR combination. I have the MG944s (the current version) with Taboo + CSP2 and am very happy, but if I were doing it again I'd very seriously consider the ERRs, because I often have music playing when I am moving around and/or sitting somewhere that isn't exactly optimal for best sound stage of conventional speakers. I'd love to try them. My one concern would be base response compared to MG944s. MG944s have outstanding base.


 
   
  So you do know that the ERR's CAN be driven by the Taboo + CSP2+ combo? If so, that will make things a LOT easier! I wouldn't mind also getting the MG944's but highly doubt that Taboo could put out enough power for both both sets of speakers.


----------



## donw

I know people who are happy with the Taboo + CSP2 + ERR combo. But it does depend on what you expect in terms of loudness. The MG944s with the Taboo and CSP2 are plenty loud enough for me in my small apartment. I very rarely play them anywhere near their full output. In terms of efficiency, the ERRs are 93 and the MG944s are 94, which doesn't seem like too much difference. But if you are looking to rock the house I'd be careful about either of them. For that you might be better off with something from Zu or Tekton, who build speakers with efficiencies up around 100. 

I don't know but I doubt that the Taboo could drive both sets of speakers at the same time.

If you have questions and are serious, the best place to go for answers is of course the man himself, Steve Deckert owner of Decware. He is easy to talk to and readily available. I've had much better luck getting him on the phone than getting a response to email.


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## donw

The wood knob seems to be standard these days. That is what my Taboo came with. The headphone jack is in the back, left side, just in front of the left input jack. 

One thing to know about the Taboo is Lucid Mode. Lucid Mode is Steve Deckert's invention for providing cross feed. It simulates the way that both ears hear sounds which come from different sides of the head. The way normal headphones have 100% separation between channels is not natural for the brain, and can cause fatigue in extended listening periods. Lucid mode doesn't completely remove channel separation, it is much more subtle than that, involving specific frequencies and percentages. Steve sais that it took a year to get it dialed in just right. The Taboo has a switch which turns Lucid Mode on/off for speakers, but for headphones use you can't really turn it off without compromising the sound quality - something about not being grounded affecting harmonics - you'd have to talk to Steve for details. 

I doubt there is anything quite like lucid mode anywhere. The Taboo is the only amp in the world which has it. I am spoiled by it now.


----------



## netbususer

Quote: 





donw said:


> I know people who are happy with the Taboo + CSP2 + ERR combo. But it does depend on what you expect in terms of loudness. The MG944s with the Taboo and CSP2 are plenty loud enough for me in my small apartment. I very rarely play them anywhere near their full output. In terms of efficiency, the ERRs are 93 and the MG944s are 94, which doesn't seem like too much difference. But if you are looking to rock the house I'd be careful about either of them. For that you might be better off with something from Zu or Tekton, who build speakers with efficiencies up around 100.
> I don't know but I doubt that the Taboo could drive both sets of speakers at the same time.
> If you have questions and are serious, the best place to go for answers is of course the man himself, Steve Deckert owner of Decware. He is easy to talk to and readily available. I've had much better luck getting him on the phone than getting a response to email.


 
   
  Definitely not looking to rock the house at all... I don't mind listening at a fairly loud level, though. (Around the noise level of a crowded street or crowded room full of conversation.) I may look into the Zu's but I was considering the Taboo or Mini Torii with headphone jack anyways in case I decide to try out planar magnetic headphones.
   
  Thanks for all the advice. I still have some time before I can afford to make a decision anyways.


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## Llloyd

Lucid mode was the main decision for me in terms of me choosing to purchase my taboo.  I've only heard good things about it and how it's a preferred implementation to crossfeed to those that I've read who have tried both.  At least nobody has thrown their taboo out because of lucid mode 
   
   I guess I'll see for myself when my taboo arrives.  I was thinking of picking up a csp buttt I'm not sure if it's worth the wait if I'm not going to be using it for headphones?  Might just pick up a different preamp like a WA22 or a WA3?  I my little dot has a preamp built in, but I'm worried it'll be a weak link in my chain and have a negative effect.  Thoughts?


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## donw

Since you have the CSP2+ coming already, it would only make sense to get the Taboo to go along with it. People who have Mini Torri say the CSP2 just gets in the way - not needed at all.


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## donw

CSP2 just makes the Taboo better, for both headphones and for speakers. And they look so good together  For my money I wouldn't go with anything else. Of course, if there is something you already have, it does no harm to try it out, but if you are going to put down real money for a pre-amp to go in front of the Taboo, I would definitely think it is worth waiting for the CSP2. Think about it like this, the wait would give you an opportunity to really get to know the Taboo without pre-amp, so that when the CSP2 arrives, you will be in better position to evaluate it. Frankly, when I got my CSP2, I was surprised at just how good the Taboo sounded WITHOUT it. It took a while for me to come to appreciate what the CSP2 brought to the table, especially with headphones. What I'm saying is that the difference is rather subtle, but like everything at this level of audio reproduction, subtle is where the value is at.... (I should add, that it doesn't hurt that I have a good source in the Mini-Max DAC plus. Can't say what your experience would be with your setup.)


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## Solude

Personally not a fan of crossfeed.  So Steve said you can't run the Taboo as a straight head amp?  That seems odd.  I would think lucid would be harder to pull off than a straight path.


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## donw

The story is that he made Lucid Mode for speakers at first. Making the Taboo a headphone amp was an afterthought. So the circuit was in place. I don't know the reasons why he doesn't make it so the headphones can be run without lucid mode. I do wish that you could, it would make the amp that much more versitile. Also, just to be clear, headphone output works when you switch lucid mode off, but it ALWAYS sounds better with it on. Steve has said in the Decware forum that headphones with the switch off is not recommended, because the "harmonics" will be compromised (due to something about grounding.)


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## Solude

Then I guess its a good thing its subtle and not a mono switch


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## SemiAudiophile

Yeah, the wood knobs are standard now. Zu Audio is doing a promo right now for Omens B-stock. They were on sale on Ebay for about 50% off. Might have to call in now to get the promo. It ends this week. Too tempting!


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## caracara08

interest checking my mint CSP2+ if anyone is interested, pm me.  walnut base, wooden knob, late 2011 made.


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## netbususer

Quote: 





semiaudiophile said:


> Yeah, the wood knobs are standard now. Zu Audio is doing a promo right now for Omens B-stock. They were on sale on Ebay for about 50% off. Might have to call in now to get the promo. It ends this week. Too tempting!


 
   
  Waaayyy too tempting! Thanks for the tip.


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## estreeter

Apologies if I'm going over old ground, but earlier posts indicate that there might be a little confusion as to why Steve recommends a preamp with the Taboo when he actually seems to try to dissuade customers from using one with his other amps (at least thats my reading of the advice on his site). This is from Steve's design notes on the Taboo from back in 2005:
   
   
 _[size=10pt]Completing the output design, switch A ties both semi-floating secondaries together with a series resistance between each coil of 9.4 ohms (4.7 x 2).  This modifies the ground reference further and allows both channels to become actively aware of each other.  The resulting channel to channel synergy is something impressively special that only the Taboo can accomplish when in "Lucid" mode.[/size]_
  
 _[size=10pt]Because of the semi-floating output design the input sensitivity is around 2.5 to 3 volts if a 12AX7 is used and that is the stock factory tube shipped with the amps.  *This means unlike the Triode amps that can all be run to clipping with no preamp, the Taboo can not be clipped with the standard 2 volts of most CD players.*  If you have speakers that are 94 dB or higher it is likely that you would still have plenty of volume even without using all of the available power from the amp.  *Of course many modified CD players and DACs have higher than 2 volt output levels so if you have one you would not need a preamp regardless of speaker efficiency.*[/size]_
  
 _[size=10pt]Having said that, the Taboo was designed in harmony with out latest preamp called the SE84CSP and the two together are very synergistic and flexible.  They also match in appearance so they look like they belong together.  Adding the CSP to your Taboo will bring out the best in the amplifier.  Increased weight, dynamics, tone and image are just some of the benefits of using a great tube preamp with the Taboo.[/size]_
  
 [size=10pt]Given that my HRT MSII has an output level of 2.25V, I would expect that many here have DACs with that sort of oomph - I guess contacting Steve is the only way to really be sure. I also recall reading something about the CSP+ being ideal for planar magnetics while the Taboo is a better choice for easier to drive headphones (hope I got that the right way around ...) - I guess all up its a 'best of both worlds' deal. I also found it interesting that the only home amps he makes for headphones are the only two he seems to see as natural partners for one another, although I suspect that his caution re preamps with his other amplifiers simply makes his life a lot simpler when it comes to emails about 'will my Acme Corp preamp work with your XYZ amp ?'.  [/size]
  
 _[size=10pt] [/size]_


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## donw

Here's another quote relating to the input sensitivity of the Taboo and need for a pre-amp, this one taken from the Taboo product page at decware.com: "The Taboo has intentionally low input sensitivity so it likes a source with a high output (3 to 4 volts) or a good preamp such as our CSP2 to really flush out it's full potential."

My Eastern Electric Mini-Max DAC has output level of aprox. 2.5V and the Taboo with nothing but it in front sounds REALLY good. But add the CSP2 and the result is "increased weight, dynamics, tone and image." (Quoting from the previous post.) In other words, it isn't that it needs the pre-amp, it just sounds even better with it. The other reason for using the CSP2 with the Taboo that Steve talks about is that it somehow fixes or cleans up a less-than perfect signal. He sais the same thing about the Torri. For example, he told me that in his own system when playing records with his $10,000 tone arm he doesn't use the pre-amp. But when playing internet radio he does use it. Interestingly, the consensus seems to be that the same is not true with the Mini-Torri, but I don't know what makes it different.

Just to clarify, the Taboo is good for planar magnetics while the CSP2 is meant for OTL headphones. The CSP2 will drive my LCD-3s but the result lacks weight and authority when compared with the Taboo. 

A headphone jack is available as an option with the Mini-Torri. Like the Taboo, it is meant for planar magnetics. Both were designed first as speaker amps and turned into headphone amps later.


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## Llloyd

Have been thinking about building a bottlehead foreplay as a pre rather than ordering a CSP2+ .  Seems like a good choice to me.  I've always liked bottlehead stuff and I imagine if I didn't like it, well no biggie


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## SemiAudiophile

I ordered the Zu Omen guys. The promo right now goes for $999/pair and ends today. I think they're fading it out with a replacement. They should arrive within the next couple weeks. Super excited!


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## HPDJ

Hey Guys,
   
  Here is a link to a forum on the Decware site where I posted some impressions of the Trapezium speakers 
   
http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1335891466/6#6
   
  well, ok I'll just paste it here as well haha
   
   
   


> Hello all!
> 
> I wanted to copy and paste some impressions I sent to Bob Z. via email about the fantastic Trapezium speakers. I hope that's ok...I will post more impressions about them as I continue to learn more and more about them and the gear I have feeding them (Mini Torii included)
> 
> ...


 
   
  cheers


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## tink97

Awesome review bud!


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## estreeter

I doubt that his roommate shares your assessment. Might give you a hint as to *why* he isnt surrounded by New Yorkers with large floorstanders (or even large bookshelves) belting out Zeppelin at 2am ..... thats why God invented headphones, people.


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## netbususer

CSP2+ just got marked as "On Bench." I'm beyond excited!


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## tink97

Grats bud,  heh I just put in an order for the trap speakers to go with my MT...lol now the wait begins again
   
  Good stuff


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## Nyvar

> I just put in an order for the trap speakers


 
   It's contagious I'm order the DM945.  I realized I'd made up my mind when I realized I didn't have room for them on my desk and started looking around at speaker stands.   What speaker cables are you planning on?


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## tink97

I got a pair of Q speaker cables that I am going to use along with the decware interconects though I only hav a jellyfish power cord so nothing fancy there heh.
   
  I got the Q Cables due mainly the look...heh something about that vintage look I love it lol.
   
  Grats on ordering the new speakers, I have read great things about them on the Decware forums.  Would love to hear you thoughts when you get em and good luck in the speaker stand search.
   
  toivo


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## Nyvar

> I got a pair of Q speaker cables


 
  The Tellurium Q?  
   
  Though I did some looking around, I went with Decware cables to be consistent through the system since I have their interconnects as well.  I confess I did opt for the black sheath though.  
   
  You comment about the power cord made me realize I really need 3 more Venom 3.  I have one for the W4S, but should really add them in for the Taboo, CSP2+, and M6.  
   
  Stands won't be difficult to find since all I need is practical and if my measurements are right about 30 inches, which allows for a 2 inch isolation pad, and should put them at close to the ideal height for when I'm sitting at my desk.  (It's a 60 inch desk, but I use two 27 inch monitors so no chance of them fitting on the desk.)


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## netbususer

Order just marked as packed. Quickest turn around ever. Now for the longest week EVER.


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## Nyvar

> Now for the longest week EVER.


 
   
  You pretty much got that right.   But, you're soon to reap the rewards of patience.  Grats.


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## tink97

Quote: 





nyvar said:


> The Tellurium Q?


 
   
  Nope just Q, he makes cables for LCD-2 and hifiman and also interconects and speaker cables.  Just google Q headphone cables and he should pop up.
  He is a great guy to do business with.


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## netbususer

Question for anyone who has bought one of the power cables from Decware along with your amplifier... I don't currently have the proper receptacle installed in my home and won't have time to do it for a while... Does Steve also include the original power cord along with the upgraded one or just the upgraded one? If it is the upgraded one, is there any way to plug it into a standard 110V outlet in the interim (even if it won't gain any benefit at that time?) I'd really love to use this thing right out of the box!
   
  TIA!


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## netbususer

CSP2+ arrived early yesterday! It did include the standard power cord as well as the audiophile one so I have been able to plug it in and listen temporarily. It's awesome! The CSP2+ absolutely blows away the valhalla (Granted it also costs about 2-3x as much...) I'm particularly impressed with the dynamics of this amplifier. Drums in particular sound fantastic and it keeps its speed very well. I've only got about 2 hours of listening time on it (the stock tubes mind you) so I'm still in early evaluation stages, but so far, I think it's fantastic with my T1's.
   
  My only concern is that it is incredibly loud! I am listening to what I consider slightly above average listening level (not by much... right around where I like to listen at) and the master volume knob is only at 7 or 8 o'clock! by 10 o'clock it's WAY too loud. Is there any way to get some extra volume control on this so that it isn't ridiculously loud?
   
  Anyways, loving it very much and look forward to throw some of these NOS tubes I've been collecting in and give them a shot soon!


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## Lord Soth

Quote: 





netbususer said:


> CSP2+ arrived early yesterday! It did include the standard power cord as well as the audiophile one so I have been able to plug it in and listen temporarily. It's awesome! The CSP2+ absolutely blows away the valhalla (Granted it also costs about 2-3x as much...) I'm particularly impressed with the dynamics of this amplifier. Drums in particular sound fantastic and it keeps its speed very well. I've only got about 2 hours of listening time on it (the stock tubes mind you) so I'm still in early evaluation stages, but so far, I think it's fantastic with my T1's.
> 
> My only concern is that it is incredibly loud! I am listening to what I consider slightly above average listening level (not by much... right around where I like to listen at) and the master volume knob is only at 7 or 8 o'clock! by 10 o'clock it's WAY too loud. Is there any way to get some extra volume control on this so that it isn't ridiculously loud?
> 
> Anyways, loving it very much and look forward to throw some of these NOS tubes I've been collecting in and give them a shot soon!


 
   
  Just wanted to extend a warm welcome to a fellow CSP2+ user! 
   
  The input tube in front has the greatest impact.
  If you can get one, rolling in a single Lorenz PCC88 Made in Stuttgart Germany can turn your CSP2+ into an "end-game" rig.
  Also, for the rectifier, someone over at the Decware Forums rolled an extensive list of rectifiers and found the Tung Sol 5Y3GT to be the best sounding.
   
  Here's what I am experiencing from my current CSP2+ rig. My Tube config is 1x Lorenz PCC88 , + 2x Siemens Halske E188CC & 1x Tung Sol 5Y3GT.
  (a) Instruments have air and tonality - Reed pipes sound like they are in the same room as me.
  (b) Instrument separation and 3D holographic effects - I can gauge the size of the concert hall or outdoor space in the recording.
  (c) Jazz singers like Ella Fitzgerald breathe life into their music.
  (d) Extensive Dynamic Range - The CSP2+ does not have a remote and does not require one! I simply set the volume knob to 1/3 max and it can handle the softest whisper to the extensive blare of trumpets without me having to adjust the volume ever again in the middle of any song.
  (e) I can "feel" the force and impact of low end bass drums.
  etc....
   
  I have personally rolled
   
  Siemens CCa Grey Shields
  French Made E188CC
  Valvo CCa 
  Telefunkens etc.....
   
  The Lorenz PCC88 is tops!
   
  After I plugged that in, my other "holy grail" tubes such as Telefunkens E188CCs and a couple of pinched waist tubes are still kept in NOS virgin storage status.
  IMHO, no more tube rolling is required until my Lorenz PCC88s expire.


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## Nyvar

> Is there any way to get some extra volume control on this so that it isn't ridiculously loud?


 
   
 Grats! You're so gonna love it.  
  
 Try this:  Turn the input all the way down, turn the volume to 12. Put on your headphones and start up some music.  Step by step increase the inputs until you reach your normal listening level.  That should give you the control you're looking for. 
  
  
 Lord Soth, thanks for the wonderful detailed tube rolling impressions.


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## netbususer

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Just wanted to extend a warm welcome to a fellow CSP2+ user!
> 
> The input tube in front has the greatest impact.
> If you can get one, rolling in a single Lorenz PCC88 Made in Stuttgart Germany can turn your CSP2+ into an "end-game" rig.
> ...


 
  Yeah, I'm still looking for Lorenz tubes (not much luck at this time...) I do have some Bugle Boys, Telefunken PCC88's, and Mullard CV2492/CV2493 available to roll through so we will see what I like the best. As far as rectifier rolling, I actually have a Tung Sol 5Y3GT and just tried rolling it into the CSP2+. The bass is clearly superior on it than the stock Ruby Red tube, but the Tung Sol also sounds incredibly muffled/dark/suppressed/veiled in the mids and highs. I'm surprised but so far I prefer the Ruby Red for the rectifier... :S


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## Lord Soth

Quote: 





netbususer said:


> Yeah, I'm still looking for Lorenz tubes (not much luck at this time...) I do have some Bugle Boys, Telefunken PCC88's, and Mullard CV2492/CV2493 available to roll through so we will see what I like the best. As far as rectifier rolling, I actually have a Tung Sol 5Y3GT and just tried rolling it into the CSP2+. The bass is clearly superior on it than the stock Ruby Red tube, but the Tung Sol also sounds incredibly muffled/dark/suppressed/veiled in the mids and highs. I'm surprised but so far I prefer the Ruby Red for the rectifier... :S


 
  I'm not sure if this will make any difference?
  My bunch of Tung Sol 5Y3GTs were all made in the 1950s with black plates and D-Getters.
  They work very well in my audio system.
  I am experiencing sonic clarity without any veil.
   
  As another alternative, the Bendix 6106 is also a 5Y3GT tube.
  This also works very well based on my experience.
   
  Skylab did a fantastic review on the CSP2+ before and he also concluded that the 5Y3 family of rectifiers work best in this amp.
   
  The Lorenz PCC88s have been hunted to extinction.
  I'm believe that there are pockets of stock still available in the inventory of some obscure tube seller out there.
   
  I have tried rolling the Telefunken PCC88 before but found the bass to be lacking.
  For listening to pure vocals, it does have quite a bit of the midrange magic though.


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## netbususer

Well, I think my judgement of the Tungsol 5Y3GT was preemptive. I'm not sure if it just didn't get along with the 6N1P's or the Bugle Boy in the front driver, but I tossed a Mullard CV2493 in front and the Telefunken PCC88's in the channel positions and it sounds fantastic. Creamy smooth, great clarity, and it still carries a lot of (but not nearly all of) that clean, tight bass from the Tungsol. I think I may just not like the Amperex sound signature as I found the sound too warm and artificial.I'll try bugle boys in all positions another time and reevaluate.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





netbususer said:


> Well, I think my judgement of the Tungsol 5Y3GT was preemptive. I'm not sure if it just didn't get along with the 6N1P's or the Bugle Boy in the front driver, but I tossed a Mullard CV2493 in front and the Telefunken PCC88's in the channel positions and it sounds fantastic. Creamy smooth, great clarity, and it still carries a lot of (but not nearly all of) that clean, tight bass from the Tungsol. I think I may just not like the Amperex sound signature as I found the sound too warm and artificial.I'll try bugle boys in all positions another time and reevaluate.


 
   
  Hi.
   
  I have played with 6N1Ps before.
  My take is that the Russian tubes sound better when the voltage applied is higher as compared with other tubes in the European ECC88 family.
   
  According to the design notes of the earlier models of the CSP amp,
http://www.decware.com/paper56.htm
   
  If you scroll all the way to the bottom, 5Y3 rectifiers would run your input tubes at 80v.
  5U4s would run it highest at 80+ 30 = 110v.
   
  So the 6N1Ps are more likely to sound better with the stock Chinese 5U4 rectifier tube which was supplied.


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## Frank I

I prefer the Sylvania 5U4G over the small bottle 5Y3G sylvania it is more transparent and has better bass extension. Its my rectifier of choice and the driver tube will give you the most sound change and I like using either amperex or really special are the phillips minwatt tubes but my favorite are still the golden Lion 6922 and have over two years on them of heavy use and still musical and dead quiet.


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## snapontom

Hi,  My name is Tom.  I have a CPS2+ on order with two RCA outputs and a headphone jack.  I also have a Taboo on order.  I ordered the Taboo after deciding to purchase the Audeze LCD2 Rev.2's rather than the 850D's.   I have been on the net for months and have changed my mind numerous times.  Since I am putting together a stereo for my 11' x 12' office I have also purchased a BITFROST DAC,  a Bob Latino ST120 Dynaco style amplifier, which has not arrived, and the Heresy III's.  I will be running iTunes out of an iMac.   I like all styles of music and this will be a huge upgrade from the Bose rig that I place my iPod into.  I am very happy to have found the DECWARE web-site, I was all over the board with components before that and now I feel confident that they have the dedication and solutions for my needs.  I have found this Thread to be informative and I thank you all for taking the time to post.  One thing I did order is a wire with a capacitor because the Taboo has to be hooked up to it or to speakers.


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## SemiAudiophile

Hi Tom, welcome to the club!


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## jc9394

Anyone tried Torii with LCD-2 or HE-6?


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## netbususer

Skylab uses LCD-2's with a Mini TORII. Question for you all, I recall reading that the original CSP2 had a problem of getting too loud, too fast. Steve did something and created the CSP2+. I have the + model and mine has this issue. Was it a knob or something on my model that I just haven't figured out how to use yet?  

TIA!


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## Skylab

Yes, I enjoy the MiniTORII plus the Audeze quite a lot.


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## SemiAudiophile

From what I understand, it seems that the + model includes additional input control that specifically controls the output of the headphone jack? The original CSP2 can do that too but it controls both headphone and rca output. If you look at the manual it should show you where the knobs are to control the input for the headphone.


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## jc9394

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yes, I enjoy the MiniTORII plus the Audeze quite a lot.


 
   
  Thanks Robs.  Actually, I'm more interest in the regular Torii so I can use it to power the B&W bookshelf and using a GP selector to power either LCD-2 or HE-6 via speaker tap.


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## snapontom

As of July 2010 the CSP2 became the CSP2+ with the addition of two additional input level controls making it possible to perfectly dial in the dynamics and gain for any pair of headphones.  No more "gets too loud too fast" on high impedance phones, instead you adjust the input levels against the master volume control to achieve a perfect balance exactly where you want it.   This has proved to be a revelation even for lower impedance phones of 250 ohms or less, basically all phones.  You simply turn the master volume up to a level that is just past your desired listening level, and then dial back the trim controls until the perfect volume is reached.  You'll hear how this can relax and open up a set of phones that otherwise came off a little too aggressive or dry.


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## netbususer

My amp didn't come with a user manual. I knew I had read about the input volume control somewhere but couldn't figure out how to get mine to work. (You just have to turn with some force.) Thanks for the tips guys! I really appreciate it! (As of now, I have a early 1960's Tungsol 5Y3GT rectifier with 2 Siemens 1961 E88CC's and a Telefunken PCC88 in the driver position and it sounds awesome! I love this amp! )
   
  Quick question: I'm not sure if I'm just imagining things but I have two volume input controls (4 really, two on each side) and I can clearly hear the volume change when I change either on the RCA side and I think I hear that each may control the two channels? Is this the way it works or am I just imagining things? Thanks!


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## snapontom

Sounds to me like you have two sets of RCA inputs (standard build) and two sets of RCA outputs (it's an upgrade and an option to have two)  that's the configuration I ordered. I haven't received my CSP2+ yet.  I think you set the output volumes to 12 o'clock and then adjust the input volumes to your desired listening volume.


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## SemiAudiophile

My Zu Omens arrived, they're still burning in, but I've been reading some material over S.E.T. amps and now I'm drooling all over the Decware SE34I.3. Anyone who has listen to set amps can explain what all the hype is about? And how does this bridging work? is it just a matter of connecting the output of one to the other to double the watts per channel?
_ [size=smaller][size=smaller][size=smaller]model SE34I.3[/size][/size][/size]_​ _ [size=smaller][size=smaller][size=smaller]model SE34I.3[/size][/size][/size]_


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## jc9394

Quote: 





semiaudiophile said:


> My Zu Omens arrived, they're still burning in, but I've been reading some material over S.E.T. amps and now I'm drooling all over the Decware SE34I.3. Anyone who has listen to set amps can explain what all the hype is about? And how does this bridging work? is it just a matter of connecting the output of one to the other to double the watts per channel?
> _ [size=smaller][size=smaller][size=smaller]model SE34I.3[/size][/size][/size]_​ _ [size=smaller][size=smaller][size=smaller]model SE34I.3[/size][/size][/size]_


 
   
   
  Nice, how do you like it so far?  With the current sale, I really like to pick one up...


----------



## SemiAudiophile

I only have about 10 hours on them so far. They sounded very bright and bass light fresh out of the box. I think they need about 200 hours before they open up. Hopefully the bass will come in by then and it's not a impedance mismatch or something. The increase in soundstage compared to my bookshelves are a plus though, seems to be very wide and upfront close to the stage. And I can notice the speed in the drivers, the transients are very fast like they say.


----------



## Clayton SF

Trust me. The bass will drop and the brightness will lose its edge and its clarity will become more focused.
  I love my Zu Omens! And Decware, too.
   
 
   
  And with two beautiful 596 rectifier tubes (United Electronics Co. (1957)).


----------



## SemiAudiophile

I forgot you had the Omen's, thought you had the Supaflys. What are you using on the base of your Omen's to elevate them? They seem to be smoothing out over the past few days. Clarity is one of their strengths I think. I love the 596 tubes. I still need to get another adapter from Glenn. My cat bit one of the beanstalk ends off, hope that doesn't hurt anything. I'm getting best results switching the 596 over to the Taboo and the Sophia on the CSP2, seem to get a more open/spacious sound with the 596.


----------



## netbususer

Hey guys,
   
  Looking to purchase a pair of speakers here in the next week or two and now you guys have me questioning what I want to buy! Right now, I'll likely be running them off of a Decware Taboo with CSP2+ as a pre-amp so they can expect a solid 6W of power. I'm sort of debating between the DM945/MG944 from Decware or the Zu Audio Omen now that they are on sale! Any of you guys compared them? Anyone used the Omen's powered from a Taboo? Any thoughts?


----------



## SemiAudiophile

I'm running omens off the csp2/taboo combo now. They have enough power to drive them, enough for a small-medium sized room. Plenty loud and enough juice left. If I calculated correct, it comes out to 4watts at 12ohms. The sound of omen has typical zu house sound as they say. With focus on tone and dynamics. They remind me of grados in a way with forward presentation. Very engaging and guarantee keep ur toes tapping.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





semiaudiophile said:


> I forgot you had the Omen's, thought you had the Supaflys. What are you using on the base of your Omen's to elevate them?


 
   
  Those are John Boos Reversible Maple Cutting Boards from Amazon. I go inexpensive. It lifts those speakers off the carpet to deliver more dynamic bass response. 12x12 is perfect.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





netbususer said:


> Skylab uses LCD-2's with a Mini TORII. Question for you all, I recall reading that the original CSP2 had a problem of getting too loud, too fast. Steve did something and created the CSP2+. I have the + model and mine has this issue. Was it a knob or something on my model that I just haven't figured out how to use yet?
> TIA!


 
   
  Your results might vary but for my CSP2+, I'm using that with high impedance Beyer DT880 (600 Ohms) headphones.
   
  I don't have that too loud, too fast problem.
  In fact, I initially had doubts about placing an order for my CSP2+ because of the lack of remote controls! 
   
  H/W, after I received it from Decware, I have found that the CSP2+ has fantastic dynamic range and does not require any more fiddling with the volume controls once you have set it up.
   
  My CSP2+ settings are
  7 Clicks clockwise for the volume knob in front.
  Max 20 clicks clockwise for the L/R headphone input controls on the left side.
  The L/R output volume controls on the right side do not affect your headphone output at all, i.e. I don't hear any difference on my headphones. The 2 L/R knobs are only used for adjusting the volume of the CSP2+ when you use it as a tube preamp.
   
  Once the music starts, I do not have to adjust the volume ever again!
   
  For me, this setting works for 99% of the audio music CDs I play on my Oppo-95 player.
  Only 1 or 2 CDs require the volume knob to be set at either 6 or 8 clicks, but that is like only 2-3 out of the 70 audio CDs I have played.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





netbususer said:


> Quick question: I'm not sure if I'm just imagining things but I have two volume input controls (4 really, two on each side) and I can clearly hear the volume change when I change either on the RCA side and I think I hear that each may control the two channels? Is this the way it works or am I just imagining things? Thanks!


 
  The only complaint which I have about Decware is that their user manual has not been updated for a long time.
  I had to find out the following information below from various audio forums including the Decware site.
   
  For the CSP2+, with the volume knob facing you, the RCA input side would be on your left. The RCA output side would be on your right.
   
  When used as a headphone amp, your headphone volume is affected by 2 items :-
  1.L/R controls on the Left (closest to the RCA inputs)
  The two knobs on the left side control the left and right input volumes of your headphones.  
   
  2. Volume Knob (in front)
   
  When used as a preamp, the volume is affected by
  1. L/R controls on the Right (closest to the RCA outputs)
   
  2. Volume Knob (in front).


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





snapontom said:


> Sounds to me like you have two sets of RCA inputs (standard build) and two sets of RCA outputs (it's an upgrade and an option to have two)  that's the configuration I ordered. I haven't received my CSP2+ yet.  I think you set the output volumes to 12 o'clock and then adjust the input volumes to your desired listening volume.


 
   
  My CSP2+ also has the 2x RCA output option.
  If this option is selected, Decware will relocate your headphone output jack for you.
  The headphone output jack will be placed in front of the amp just below the front volume knob.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Thinking of picking up a Decware Step Up Transformer for MC cartridges. Anyone has experience with these?
   
   
  Quote: 





> [size=smaller][size=smaller]ZMC1[/size][/size]
> [size=smaller][size=smaller] For low gain MC cartridges[/size][/size]
> [size=smaller][size=smaller]1:20 ratio for use with 3~25 ohm cartridges.[/size][/size]
> [size=smaller][size=smaller]ZMC2[/size][/size]
> ...


----------



## Clayton SF

^ I went with Bob's Devices for my Step-Up Transformer.
  http://www.bobsdevices.com/photos.htm


----------



## SemiAudiophile

I was looking at Bob's as well. What do you think of them?


----------



## Clayton SF

Bob is the go-to guy for step-up transformers. I am really happy with his devices. I went with him because he personally addressed every question I had regarding my particular setup, etc. If you email him and tell him what equipment you have, he'll respond rather quickly to help you decide on the best step-up for you system. He builds everything himself. Give it a go: http://www.bobsdevices.com/contact.htm


----------



## WNBC

Recently added a Zbox to my headphone rig and I'm quite impressed with the improvements in tone and focus.  There was also a noticeable increase in the spatial quality of the music and a touch more weight to the low end.  In general, there's a new liveliness to the music.  Anybody else have experience with the ZBOX?  
   
  I have a Mullard 12AU7 tube in it right now and will try other tubes as well.  Feel free to suggest some other 12AU7s.  I have a 1970 Phillips Valvo Heerlen Holland 12AU7 tube on the way so I could be all set. 
   
  I can only imagine how good the rest of the Decware lineup is but if somebody is looking to spice up their non-Decware gear he or she should consider the Zbox.  I got mine used at a great price.  I suppose if one buys a new ZBOX then he or she is already halfway at the price of a new Taboo or CSP2+.  A 2-fold difference in price is incentive enough to go the full monty for a Decware tube amp.     
   
  W4S DAC-2 > ZBOX > V200 > HE-500


----------



## JimP

quick question for you mini-Torii owners:
   
  The switch to engage the treble tone knob - is it engaged when it is toggle toward you (if you are facing the amp), or vice versa?
   
  I tried registering on Decware Forum (natural place to ask question) but for whatever reason cannot register.  Nothing in the manual, nor googling.
   
  Hope one of you can set me straight, thanks


----------



## Clayton SF

Hi. Sorry for the late response but I had to hook up my Mini Torii before I could test it for you.
   
  The toggle switch engages the treble control when it is pointing toward you. The treble control rolls off the top end when you turn it clockwise. That is it decreases the treble as you turn it clockwise.


----------



## JimP

C-SF, thanks for checking and posting, really appreciate it.
   
  I stumbled into a used set of mini-Torii and ERR speakers here in Hong Kong, how lucky is that (I can't imagine many of these here, if any at all).  I'm impressed with Decware (until recently unknown to me), so that I've placed an order for a few other items - happy to give them business, and not just take from used market.
   
  Back to mini-Torii, not much info out there, but it looks like mine is the version with 6x4 rectifier whereas the very latest has EZ81.   Question, do you think it would be worthwhile at some point to have it upgraded to EZ81 capabilities (maybe at same time, get stepped attenuators)?  If there is some tangible sonic benefit derived from doing this, I may consider (not right away - just enjoying the music these days - but maybe later).  Or no real sonic benefit, don't bother?   [again, sorry, I should naturally pose some of these questions on Decware forum, but for the life of me, I cannot figure out how to register there to post].
   
  I took a punt on the ERRs - didn't even know what they were.  Went to buy the amp, and seller asked if I wanted to buy the ERRs too as a package deal.  On the spur I said yes - really happy with these running now off a Leben integrated amp.  I'm using mini-Torii with Omega Super 5s now.
   
  Maybe new toy syndrome, but despite being burnt out and jaded over many years, I'm really enjoying these Decware pieces.


----------



## tink97

Hey JimP
   
  Grats on the decware stuff, they are really amazing pieces.  For getting a hold of decware you can email Steve for information about the tube change in the mini torii.


----------



## Skylab

For whatever it's worth, my Mini-Torii uses the 6X4. I like it as a rectifier tube, and nice ones are cheaper than EZ81's have gotten to be.


----------



## Clayton SF

JimP,
  
 I don't know enough about the 6X4 to judge it against the EZ81. I do know that Jack from Woo Audio changed the WA4 (discontinued) from the 6X4 to the EZ81 as well and I don't know his reasons.
  
 The only reason I would get it changed to stepped attenuators is that it would be absolutely in balance the way the sound engineer intended. Other wise you're depending on your ears, which is not a bad thing if you have perfect hearing in both ears. Some music I own is right channel or left channel heavy because of the way the sound engineer set it up. Guitars toward the right and drums toward the left and others at points in between. In that instance I make slight adjustments to place them where I think the center is only to find, during another song, that I am way off. But that would be my OCD kicking in I think.  I guess I could use a mono recording to set it up first but I find myself adjusting the volume constantly depending on which song is on.
  
 I didn't get the stepped attenuator because of the price and there are times that I yearn to set it between the steps!!!
  
 It comes down to personal preference. I use my Mini Torii mainly as a speaker amp.
  
 Have fun and congratulations!


----------



## Skylab

Amp makers use the EZ81 because there are huge stocks available of his tube from Tesla, RFT, and others. The 6X4 supply is more sketchy.


----------



## WNBC

Skylab,
  Does your Mini Torii have a headphone out?  I always wondered how that sounded with orthos.  There was a Mini Torii in the for sale forum.  While it might be great for speakers I would only be using it for headphones, at least for a year or so then maybe switching to speakers.  The Decware website says for headphones, one should pick the Taboo over the Mini Torii.  For speakers, the Mini is the winner when one needs more power.  Since it is all relative, I have the V200 and Pioneer SX.  Had the Lyr in the past.  Maybe you could state in relation to the Pioneer how the Mini Torii matches up if one's primary use is headphones.    
   
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> For whatever it's worth, my Mini-Torii uses the 6X4. I like it as a rectifier tube, and nice ones are cheaper than EZ81's have gotten to be.


----------



## Skylab

The Mini Torii works well for orthos, specifically planars (yes, mine has a headphone jack installed by Decware - the first he ever did that way). It's good with low impedance, medium sensitivity headphones. I get a bit too much hum with high efficiency headphones. It's also definitely on the warm and lush side, versus the majority of solid state vintage amps that get discussed around these parts, which while not bright, are not "tubey" sounding, which the Mini Torii is. Only my 60's Fisher tube amp is more tubey.


----------



## WNBC

Thanks for info
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> The Mini Torii works well for orthos, specifically planars (yes, mine has a headphone jack installed by Decware - the first he ever did that way). It's good with low impedance, medium sensitivity headphones. I get a bit too much hum with high efficiency headphones. It's also definitely on the warm and lush side, versus the majority of solid state vintage amps that get discussed around these parts, which while not bright, are not "tubey" sounding, which the Mini Torii is. Only my 60's Fisher tube amp is more tubey.


----------



## JimP

thanks everybody who responded to my query, re: mini-Torii.  Appreciate it!


----------



## setamp

Anyone looking for a 596 rectifier tube should find the group buy on the Woo thread:

 http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/22125


----------



## HPDJ

As Skylab has written _and_ from what Steve D. told me on the phone, the EZ81 rectifier tube change was motivated by a shortage in the availability of the 6X4 rectifier in relation to the quantity of EZ81's available now from various tube sellers.
   
  As far as how the two differ in sound, I wouldn't know except that most of the great reviews I'd read about the MT before I pulled the trigger (Skylab's included) had 6X4's. Mines has the EZ81's and sounds great...I personally wouldn't stress changing the 6X4's to the EZ81's it too much. If the 6X4's are not your flavor for some reason, you could probably find a different brand of 6X4's whose sonic attributes better suite your personal system needs. Have fun!


----------



## JimP

Thanks HPDJ for additional input. Sounds like I should just enjoy the amp as-is!


----------



## Frimpy

Heading to Michigan this month from Florida planning to detour to Decware and check them out. Had questions about their equipment spoke with chief bottle washer Steve (owner). Spoke with me like he'd known me for years.


----------



## tink97

Yeha Steve is a great guy, I spoke to him once on the phone and I never once felt like i was being hurried off the phone.  Decware has great customer service in my book.


----------



## caracara08

tink97 said:


> Yeha Steve is a great guy, I spoke to him once on the phone and I never once felt like i was being hurried off the phone.  Decware has great customer service in my book.



I agree. I never spoke personally to Steve but i spoke to both staff members and they were very nice. Wish I had the space and money for his gear


----------



## ardilla

Does he build all amps himself?


----------



## caracara08

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Does he build all amps himself?


 
  no he does not.


----------



## Frimpy

I'mnot sure what Steve does do himself. From what I can tell is that he is not afraid to share information. He'll sell you an amp or you can go to the Decware site to DIY and see about building your own from his plans. I'm unsure if I should DIY a decware clone or purchase one of his amps.


----------



## Frimpy

I'd really like to purchase one of his Zen amp and a pair of MG 944 speakers. Have to try and get there to hear and see his equipment and then figure out how o get the funding. Have been having fun buying and selling equipment but its getting expensive.


----------



## Lord Soth

Hi fellow Decware audiophiles,
   
  Steve just released the owner's manual for his latest tube amp, the SE34I.3
   
  The link is over here
   
http://www.decware.com/newsite/SE34I3owner.pdf


----------



## Frimpy

thanks for posting the SE34I.3 manual link, was a great read for us intertesting in Decware amps. Does anybody know of any synergy between Decware amps and Decware speakers. Like I stated previously I'll be going there in 2 weeks to get a hands on viewing of Decwares wares.


----------



## Llloyd

My taboo should be arriving within the next few days.  I'm not even excited anymore it's been so long. Put my order in on march 12th if anyone is curious.


----------



## WNBC

I'm excited about your Taboo.  I'll trade you my V200 for your Taboo and throw in some good balanced cables to even the deal 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Quote: 





llloyd said:


> My taboo should be arriving within the next few days.  I'm not even excited anymore it's been so long. Put my order in on march 12th if anyone is curious.


----------



## Llloyd

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> I'm excited about your Taboo.  I'll trade you my V200 for your Taboo and throw in some good balanced cables to even the deal


 
  If I somehow end up disliking it, I'd probably check out the v200


----------



## Nyvar

> Put my order in on march 12th if anyone is curious.


 
   
  Your 16 weeks makes me feel lucky I only had to wait 12.   I can say waiting for speakers isn't much easier, and I suspect the wait may be 12 weeks again, and I hope equally worth it.  BTW I don't se a v200 in your near future.


----------



## Llloyd

Quote: 





nyvar said:


> Your 16 weeks makes me feel lucky I only had to wait 12.   I can say waiting for speakers isn't much easier, and I suspect the wait may be 12 weeks again, and I hope equally worth it.  BTW I don't se a v200 in your near future.


 
   
  Haha.  Yeah.  I figured as much.  Besides I have speakers waiting to hook up as well


----------



## dminches

16 weeks is just crazy.  I put my order in 1 month ago.  Waiting 3 more months stinks.  Oh well...


----------



## longbowbbs

Cue Carly Simon...."Anticipation....".


----------



## Llloyd

Something happened last week that made it a real drag too. I guess they gave 3 days of the week off to the engineers for the 4th of july? At least it seemed that way since no progress was made.  Somehow my order shipped today even though it was packed on monday.  It's really dragging along   I just want to hear the damn thing already.


----------



## tink97

You are almost there bud 
   
  I am actually been waiting for a pair fo trap speakers for a little while currently and hopefully will get them sometime this month....wait is always the hardest part, but for me makes me appreciate the units all the more. lol


----------



## WNBC

Maybe you can get back at them for the delays and sell it to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Quote: 





llloyd said:


> Something happened last week that made it a real drag too. I guess they gave 3 days of the week off to the engineers for the 4th of july? At least it seemed that way since no progress was made.  Somehow my order shipped today even though it was packed on monday.  It's really dragging along   I just want to hear the damn thing already.


----------



## Llloyd

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Maybe you can get back at them for the delays and sell it to me


 
   
  Haha, it really is a long wait! I agree that the long wait at least increases the sentimental value of the product


----------



## setamp

I'm playing the same waiting game.  Just placed my order in mid June so looking at October before I receive my Taboo..


----------



## Nyvar

> Haha, it really is a long wait! I agree that the long wait at least increases the sentimental value of the product


 
   
  I think the part that seems the longest is when you get notified work has begun.  Then it's intolerable.  I felt if they started my amp, it should get their complete and undivided attention.  Didn't they know how long I'd been waiting.  However, the pack one day, and ship two days later may be the norm, mine was exactly the same.  Now you'll get to watch is move towards you.


----------



## longbowbbs

llloyd said:


> Something happened last week that made it a real drag too. I guess they gave 3 days of the week off to the engineers for the 4th of july? At least it seemed that way since no progress was made.  Somehow my order shipped today even though it was packed on monday.  It's really dragging along   I just want to hear the damn thing already.




B******s....taking time off on a national holiday. We need our gear!...


----------



## Llloyd

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> B******s....taking time off on a national holiday. We need our gear!...


 
  Nevermind that I got the same amount of time off either.  *need* being the key word


----------



## Nyvar

^ +1


----------



## Llloyd

Alright, Taboo owners.  Is there a manual somewhere for the current version?  
   
  What's the difference between the two sets of RCA jacks? One is variable input, and one is direct.  I really have no idea what that means though.  
   
  The amplifier does sound very good.  Lucid mode is pretty cool.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





llloyd said:


> Alright, Taboo owners.  Is there a manual somewhere for the current version?
> 
> What's the difference between the two sets of RCA jacks? One is variable input, and one is direct.  I really have no idea what that means though.
> 
> The amplifier does sound very good.  Lucid mode is pretty cool.


 
  Congrats Llloyd on your new arrival!


----------



## Llloyd

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Congrats Llloyd on your new arrival!


 
   
  Thank you!  I was not extremely excited at first to be honest haha.  But now that I'm settled in and listening to some tracks I'm much more enthusiastic about the amplifier.  It does everything shocklingly well as far as I can tell.
   
  It's hard to imagine this, from the taboo manual.  Can't imagine double the soundstage.  Things are already pretty spacious with lucid mode.  Lucid mode off does sound slightly more closed compared to my previous little dot amp.  I don't see any reason to turn lucid mode off ever though.
   


> If you listen to your amp during the burn-in process this is what you will experience: First the amp will sound good followed by almost an immediate increase in harshness which after 30 minutes will change to dullness and continue to go back and forth. During this mind bending experience the imaging and soundstage will be unstable and somewhat restricted. There will be moments of incredible sound during this process and equally ugly sound. You will know when the amp is burned-in because out of nowhere some night when your listening the amp will bloom with a soundstage almost double in size and forever stay that way in all successive listening sessions. As you amplifier ages, it will season like fine wine and continue to do so for many years.  An amplifier that is a couple years old almost always sounds superior to a brand new one assuming both are using a fresh set of tubes.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





llloyd said:


> Thank you!  I was not extremely excited at first to be honest haha.  But now that I'm settled in and listening to some tracks I'm much more enthusiastic about the amplifier.  It does everything shocklingly well as far as I can tell.
> 
> It's hard to imagine this, from the taboo manual.  Can't imagine double the soundstage.  Things are already pretty spacious with lucid mode.  Lucid mode off does sound slightly more closed compared to my previous little dot amp.  I don't see any reason to turn lucid mode off ever though.


 
  hehehe....Did you sniff the bottlecap
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   What an interesting description. I am sure it will be a joy for many years.


----------



## longbowbbs

OK...I am in. CSP2+ on order. Current quoted delivery time 12-14 weeks. Let the hourglass be turned over and let's count the sand!


----------



## Nyvar

> It does everything shocklingly well as far as I can tell.


 
   
  Wait until you have 200ish hours on it, you ain't heard nuthin' yet.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Trust me. The bass will drop and the brightness will lose its edge and its clarity will become more focused.
> I love my Zu Omens! And Decware, too.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I love the collection ClaytonSF, how are they connected? Is that a Torii, 2 Taboo's and a CSP2+?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I love the collection ClaytonSF, how are they connected? Is that a Torii, 2 Taboo's and a CSP2+?


 

 Thanks.
   
  From the left they are:
   
  1. Zen Phono Preamp, ZP3
  2. Zen Triode OTL Preamp, CSP2+
  3. Zen Taboo
  4. Mini Torii
  5. 47 Labs CD Transport
   
  Source is 47 Labs Shigaraki Series CD Transport Model 4716.
  The DAC is a MHDT Lab -- Havana.
   
  I do switch speakers between the Taboo and the Mini Torii. Love them both. I want to eventually get the HE-500 to use with the Mini Torii.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thanks.
> 
> From the left they are:
> 
> ...


 
  Sweet. That is a great family photo! Do you use the CSP2+ as the primary plug in for your headphones? Do you have a headphone jack on either the Taboo of the MT?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Sweet. That is a great family photo! Do you use the CSP2+ as the primary plug in for your headphones? Do you have a headphone jack on either the Taboo of the MT?


 
   
  The headphone jacks are only on the CSP2+ and the Mini Torii. I use the CSP2+ primarily as a preamp and a secondary setup for headphones; I love them with the DT990.
   
  The Mini Torii is better suited for low-sensitivity headphones like the HE-500. My high-sensitivity headphones, like the Denon D7000, has a noticeable hum on the Mini Torii.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The headphone jacks are only on the CSP2+ and the Mini Torii. I use the CSP2+ primarily as a preamp and a secondary setup for headphones; I love them with the DT990.
> 
> The Mini Torii is better suited for low-sensitivity headphones like the HE-500. My high-sensitivity headphones, like the Denon D7000, has a noticeable hum on the Mini Torii.


 
  Would you use the CSP2+ & Taboo with headphones or are you strictly using the CSP2+ as both Pre-Amp and Amp?


----------



## tink97

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thanks.
> 
> From the left they are:
> 
> ...


 
  I had the he-500 for a short period with my mini torii and felt it was a very nice pairing.  At the time I had the lcd-2 rev1 also, and the mini just did great with bothe headphones.
   
  Have a good one bud


----------



## Llloyd

Anyone with a taboo want to inform me about the lucid mode switch with headphones?  Right now all it does is switch the left channel to mono in the off position(towards the center).  At least I'm assuming that's the off position.
   
  I haven't connected speakers yet but I will probably tomorrow.  Lucid mode is supposed to be on all the time for headphones anyway right?


----------



## Skylab

clayton sf said:


> The Mini Torii is better suited for low-sensitivity headphones like the HE-500. My high-sensitivity headphones, like the Denon D7000, has a noticeable hum on the Mini Torii.




Indeed, same with mine. mini-Torii isn't for high sensitivity headphones, or high impedance. It's really not a headphone amp. But it works very well with many of the current planar headphones.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Indeed, same with mine. mini-Torii isn't for high sensitivity headphones, or high impedance. It's really not a headphone amp. But it works very well with many of the current planar headphones.


 
  I am planning on using the CSP2+ with my HD650's. How would the Taboo add to this combo? Does it have a HP Jack as well? Would it be a duplication if I was not going to use speakers , just headphones?  If they added a jack to the Taboo, would you need the CSP2+?
   
  I have spent a bunch of time on the Decware site, but these details are proving elusive from their write-ups.
   
  Thanks for all of your insight! Looking like November before I can join the club due to delivery estimates from Decware.


----------



## Llloyd

CSP2 - 32-600 ohm
  Taboo - 4-60 ohm
   
  The mod to the taboo to add a headphone jack was done with LCD2s in mind I'm pretty sure, is is generally meant for "power hungry planars" or whatever it is they say


----------



## Hi-Five

I have the CSP+ and Taboo combo.  I thought my WA6 did a good job with the LCD-2, but my jaw hit the floor using the Taboo.
   
  Now I'm anxiously awaiting my ZP3 to join the family, three months so far today and always worth the wait!


----------



## longbowbbs

I guess I am just curious if there is a benefit for Sennheisers to have both the CSP2+ and the Taboo, or if the CSP2+ is all that I would need (need...There is THAT word again!)


----------



## Nyvar

> I guess I am just curious if there is a benefit for Sennheisers to have both the CSP2+ and the Taboo, or if the CSP2+ is all that I would need


 
   
  It's a matter of taste...   Though has someone who has the CSP2+ & Taboo, and uses them with HD800's, I would say you need both and you want to get by with just the CSP2+.  Though if you never listened to the Senns through the Taboo pre-amped with the CSP2+ you'd never know what you were missing.  I'm not saying the CSP2+ alone is a slouch, with the HD800, it's great.  However, the combo is much better, in my opinion, at least with the HD800s.  Usual disclaimer:  I listen to mostly classical, I'm all over sound stage, air, imaging, instrument placement, dynamics, detail, you get the picture.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





nyvar said:


> It's a matter of taste...   Though has someone who has the CSP2+ & Taboo, and uses them with HD800's, I would say you need both and you want to get by with just the CSP2+.  Though if you never listened to the Senns through the Taboo pre-amped with the CSP2+ you'd never know what you were missing.  I'm not saying the CSP2+ alone is a slouch, with the HD800, it's great.  However, the combo is much better, in my opinion, at least with the HD800s.  Usual disclaimer:  I listen to mostly classical, I'm all over sound stage, air, imaging, instrument placement, dynamics, detail, you get the picture.


 
  So, CSP2+ to Taboo, then do you have them put a jack onto the Taboo for the headphones?  I wish the site was more clear. Awesome pics, just not enough of them.
   
  Initially then I would have MacMini>Amarra>AQ Cinnamon>DacMagic+>CSP2+>Toxic Cable Silver Poison's>HD650's. Then add the Taboo into the mix in a couple more months.


----------



## dminches

Yes.  You run the headphones off of the taboo.  You open up the volume control on the Taboo all the way and use the CSP2+ volume control to set the volume.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Yes.  You run the headphones off of the taboo.  You open up the volume control on the Taboo all the way and use the CSP2+ volume control to set the volume.


 
  OK... Now I get it...Thanks!


----------



## Nyvar

> do you have them put a jack onto the Taboo for the headphones?


 
   It's in the description of the amp, which is well worth reading.  You select what options you want at check out. 
   
   
 [size=medium] [size=larger]CUSTOM OPTIONS[/size][/size]

 [size=medium] [size=larger][size=smaller]Since the chassis was designed to accommodate additional jacks and even another tube if needed, the following options are available:[/size][/size][/size]


 Choose between the black figured base or the contemporary walnut - FREE 
 Choose from a variety of alternate hardwoods - add $50
 Stepped attenuator - add $250
 V-Caps - add $200
 Headphone jack for Planar Magnetic Ear Phones - add $100
 
 [size=medium]

[/size]  [size=larger][size=smaller]Additional Options can be selected and changed in the shopping cart.[/size][/size]
   
[size=larger][size=smaller]I got it with the headphone jack and V-Caps, and use their interconnects between the W4S Dac2 and the CSP2+ and between it and the Taboo.  Otherwise I have Signal silver reference and use a Cardas clear from my mac mini to the W4S.  [/size][/size]


----------



## longbowbbs

nyvar said:


> It's in the description of the amp, which is well worth reading.  You select what options you want at check out.
> 
> 
> [size=medium][SIZE=60%]CUSTOM OPTIONS[/SIZE]​[/size]
> ...




I saw the Planar reference and did not realize it was for all phone types.... Good upgrade path for sure. Get the CSP2+ with the two outputs and then have a Torii for your speakers and the Taboo for the headphones...tubes everywhere!


----------



## Argo Duck

The lucid switch toggles between lucid and mono for 'phones, lucid and stereo for speakers.
   
  Your earlier question - the inner pair of inputs are 'direct', meaning connect to a preamp and set from there. The outer pair use Taboo's own volume control. It seems when using the inner pair you still have to crank the Taboo's vol control a few degrees to turn this input "on".
   
  Today I'm enjoying a pair of satellites from a KEF KIT100 system connected to Taboo (the rest of the system is deceased). These satellites can't be anywhere near efficient enough for the Taboo, yet don't sound bad at all - especially with string quartet music.
   
  Quote: 





llloyd said:


> Anyone with a taboo want to inform me about the lucid mode switch with headphones?  Right now all it does is switch the left channel to mono in the off position(towards the center).  At least I'm assuming that's the off position.
> 
> I haven't connected speakers yet but I will probably tomorrow.  Lucid mode is supposed to be on all the time for headphones anyway right?


----------



## Mad Dude

Is anoyone here using the CSP2+ purely as a headphone amp, and not as preamp for the taboo or another amplifier? If yes, have you ever experienced any issues?
   
  I'm asking because I'm having nothing but trouble with my CSP2+, which is used primarily with the Sennheiser HD600. Or has been used, I should say, since the amp has been disconnected from my setup since almost two months. The main issues are hissing/crackling sounds in one channel, and a strong hum in both channels. The first issue, the hissing and crackling, are probably due to a defect inside the amp and can be fixed. The latter however, the humming, is "normal" according to Steve Deckert. I suppose all tube amps have some background noise - but in the CSP2+ it's on a level that's not tolerable in my opinion. While it's perfectly possible to listen to Rock, Pop etc. without noticing the hum (except in the pauses between tracks), I cannot listen to Classical music since the hum is clearly audible in quiet passages. I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced this problem.
   
  And yes, I've tried just about anything to fix these problems. It's not related to tubes, AC issues, or problems with the line-in. It has to be the amp itself...
  The CSP2+ sounds excellent with just about any headphone I've tried, but after the inital phase of new-toy-syndrome has worn off I have to admit that this amp is simply not suited for driving headphones. It may be an excellent preamp, sure, but it is impossible for me to ignore the issues that come with it. My CSP2+ is now going to Decware for repair to fix the hissing/crackling issue, and to the classifieds afterwards.


----------



## Llloyd

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> The lucid switch toggles between lucid and mono for 'phones, lucid and stereo for speakers.
> 
> Your earlier question - the inner pair of inputs are 'direct', meaning connect to a preamp and set from there. The outer pair use Taboo's own volume control. It seems when using the inner pair you still have to crank the Taboo's vol control a few degrees to turn this input "on".
> 
> Today I'm enjoying a pair of satellites from a KEF KIT100 system connected to Taboo (the rest of the system is deceased). These satellites can't be anywhere near efficient enough for the Taboo, yet don't sound bad at all - especially with string quartet music.


 
   
   
  Thank you so much for the information! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
   


mad dude said:


> Is anoyone here using the CSP2+ purely as a headphone amp, and not as preamp for the taboo or another amplifier? If yes, have you ever experienced any issues?


 
   
  I know at the very least Frank I uses his CSP2+ as his main headphone amp, you could shoot him a message.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





mad dude said:


> Is anoyone here using the CSP2+ purely as a headphone amp, and not as preamp for the taboo or another amplifier? If yes, have you ever experienced any issues?
> 
> I'm asking because I'm having nothing but trouble with my CSP2+, which is used primarily with the Sennheiser HD600. Or has been used, I should say, since the amp has been disconnected from my setup since almost two months. The main issues are hissing/crackling sounds in one channel, and a strong hum in both channels. The first issue, the hissing and crackling, are probably due to a defect inside the amp and can be fixed. The latter however, the humming, is "normal" according to Steve Deckert. I suppose all tube amps have some background noise - but in the CSP2+ it's on a level that's not tolerable in my opinion. While it's perfectly possible to listen to Rock, Pop etc. without noticing the hum (except in the pauses between tracks), I cannot listen to Classical music since the hum is clearly audible in quiet passages. I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced this problem.
> 
> ...


 

 I use the csp2 as my main amp for my HD800 and 770 600 ohm and I have zero hum issues and never heard any hum in my setup. Have you check to see if your electric has a ground loop issue. Use a cheater plug and see if it goes away. I would send it in to Decware and see if Steve can rectify the problem.he beauty if the CSP2 is it is dead quiet. No noise and certainly no hum in my setup. What tubes are you using?


----------



## Skylab

I agree with Frank. When I had the CSP-2, one of the things that impressed me most about it was a complete lack of hum. I do get some hum with the mini-Torii and high efficiency headphones, but that isn't a surprise given the design.


----------



## Mad Dude

Interesting to hear that both of you have no issues with background hum. I'm not entirely sure whether my issues are related to the amp itself or AC issues, but at least the hissing/crackling is a sign that there's something wrong with the amp itself.
  I have to mention that the hum does not occur with all headphones. Low-impedance ones (such as the T50RP) did exhibit much less hum than high-impedance phones such as the HD600 or T1. But that's not much consolation since the CSP2+ is apparently best suited for high-impedance headphones...
   
  I have never tried a cheater plug, but otherwise I've checked just about any other possible source of my problems. I have swapped tubes countless times - I mostly used the folllowing configuration:
  1x Electro-Harmonix 6922 GOLD (new production) in front position,
  2x Amperex Bugle Boy 6922 (NOS) in rear position, and
  GE 6087 (NOS) as rectifier.
  Swapping the tubes (I have three entirely different sets, both drivers and rectifier) did not affect the background hum or the hissing/crackling. I suppose it's quite impossible that all tubes should be defective and exhibit exactly the same problems (otherwise, this would be an extordinary example of Murphys law).
   
  At one time I have also disconnected every electrical device in my apartment (except basic devices such as refrigerator etc) and tried the CSP2+, without any input connected. The result was exactly the same as before. I don't really know anything about how ground loops work, but I think usually they appear when multiple devices are connected to the same outlet and interfere with each other. I have also tried a cheap AC filter, which didn't make a difference either. Since there are absolutely no hum issues with any of my other audio devices, I think I can safely rule out the AC power as the source of the humming. More likely there's something wrong with the amp itself.
   
  Now I don't know if it is related to my issues, but I have had several tubes (at least five different ones) that arced when used with the CSP2+. All were 6922 tubes, of different makes, mostly NOS. It seems that that the amp puts some severe strain on the tubes... In any case it would seem strange that it did not work with quite a number of them.


----------



## Skylab

You should call Decware. Tubes should NOT be arcing. Something's wrong.


----------



## Mad Dude

Of course they should not, but if you read the Decware forums this seems to be quite common. The usual explanation is that some tubes cannoth withstand the strain which the CSP2 puts on them. Now I just don't know whether my tubes were defective (some were used ones) or if the problem is the amp's circuit...
   
  Anyway, as mentioned before my CSP2+ will go to Decware for repair and afterwards to a new owner. That is, if I can find a buyer - Which may not be so easy, since I will clearly state that the amp has some issues.
  Even if the repair is covered by warranty, shipping the amp to the US and back again can very easily cost me something like $250-$300. I don't have the patience to give it another try as long as there's a risk that the hum problem will persist - so the amp has to go.


----------



## Llloyd

Well I hooked my taboo up to some 86db efficient speakers from napa acoustic.  Sounds pretty great, and the speakers are a really good deal IMO.  On more dynamic, less compressed music it does alright (i listen 90% of the time at my desk anyway), and with modern music it's great.  It'd be nice to have some 90db or higher speakers but I really don't feel like spending any more money on audio atm


----------



## FX5K

Hey Mad Dude!
 I used the CSP2+ pre-amp for my Taboo, but experienced a non tube related hum in both channels for some time. None of my efforts could solve the problem. End of the story, the units transformer went up in smoke last saturday. I hadn't checked shipping expenses for the return, yet. But if it's as expensive to get it from switerland to the US, as you mentioned Mad Dude, I might have to reconsider the repair as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Well, maybe someone could give me some advice for nice pre-amp instead of the CSP2+ for my Taboo?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





fx5k said:


> Hey Mad Dude!
> I used the CSP2+ pre-amp for my Taboo, but experienced a non tube related hum in both channels for some time. None of my efforts could solve the problem. End of the story, the units transformer went up in smoke last saturday. I hadn't checked shipping expenses for the return, yet. But if it's as expensive to get it from switerland to the US, as you mentioned Mad Dude, I might have to reconsider the repair as well.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Funny the CSP2 has no transformer its and OTL


----------



## Clayton SF

frank i said:


> Funny the CSP2 has no transformer its and OTL




Hi Frank! I hope you're doing well.

He's talking about the power transformer.

My CSP2+ also hummed and sputtered constantly and went from mono to stereo. I sent it back to Decware with a detailed explanation and Decware replaced the jack and retuned it. The problem returned so I had 2359glenn look at it. He said it was messed up so he modded it for me and rewired some obvious production errors and now it works like a charm.


----------



## Skylab

Hmmmm...that is all kind of disturbing.  Decware has a pretty loyal following it seems, but I have seen some instances of them not being very attentive to customers who report problems.  They should really take customer issues seriously and deal with them carefully.


----------



## longbowbbs

skylab said:


> Hmmmm...that is all kind of disturbing.  Decware has a pretty loyal following it seems, but I have seen some instances of them not being very attentive to customers who report problems.  They should really take customer issues seriously and deal with them carefully.




Does Steve ever monitor or participate in the forums? It is alsways helpful when they are monitoring.


----------



## Skylab

I have heard there are pretty active Decware forums, but I have never looked at them.


----------



## Mad Dude

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *FX5K* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I used the CSP2+ pre-amp for my Taboo, but experienced a non tube related hum in both channels for some time. None of my efforts could solve the problem. End of the story, the units transformer went up in smoke last saturday. I
> [...]


 
   
  Whew, that must have been a shock. Humming noise is one thing, but transformers going up in smoke is quite another matter... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Regarding shipping, the cost for sending the amp to the US is 77 CHF($79) for economy shipping, + return shipping ($95) + import fees (they probably won't charge tax again, but there are always "handling fees" or something like that, last time this amounted to about $50). And if you don't have the receipt for the import tax anymore (threw mine away, stupid I know) there will again be import tax of another $80 or so. You end up with quite a sum.
   
  In any case, I'm planning to sell my CSP2+ (at a rather low price obviously). Since Decware requires to send the amp in order to transfer the warranty to a new owner, I'll combine this warranty transfer and the repair - they can ship the repaired amp directly to the new owner. This way I won't lose a fortune. Still, I figure that all in all I've burnt about $500 for the Decware.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Does Steve ever monitor or participate in the forums? It is alsways helpful when they are monitoring.


 
   
  He does, I've started a thread in the Decware forums while ago and got a few replies from him. There are many other helpful people over there, too. Nothing much came of it though, all attempts to solve my problems by changing tubes and whatnot didn't produce any results, it seems that a professional repair is the only possible option.
   
  Oh well, it was a nice adventure, but ultimately not worth it for me. I'm done with tube amps in general (this isn't the first time I've had a bad experience with a hand-made, expensive, "audiophile" tube amp). Admittedly I'm quite happy with what other (less exotic) gear I have, and will focus on wasting spending my money to buy more music instead.
  Nevertheless, these problems seem to be relatively few, since I've never heard of any before. I hope all owners of Decware gear enjoy their amps! 
   
   
   
  ________________________________
   
  Update:
  Jost got a reply from Decware regarding my questions about the possibility of combining the repair and warranty transfer. They will not hold the amp after repair; this means I'll have to wait until I've found a buyer (or rather, the buyer will have to wait). Also, they charge $75 just for transferring the warranty. Great. I would have expected a bit more courtesy from a company like Decware... At least the repair is covered by the warranty.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mad dude said:


> Update:
> Jost got a reply from Decware regarding my questions about the possibility of combining the repair and warranty transfer. They will not hold the amp after repair; this means I'll have to wait until I've found a buyer (or rather, the buyer will have to wait). Also, they charge $75 just for transferring the warranty. Great. I would have expected a bit more courtesy from a company like Decware... At least the repair is covered by the warranty.


 
   
  The reason I had mine repaired/modded by Glenn was because of the shipping charges. Decware will cover the repairs under warranty but they will not cover the cost of return shipping. They will also charge a repackaging fee if the original packaging was damaged. So I paid for shipping and return shipping charges and it was returned with a replaced jack (which didn't fix the problem). I didn't want to keep sending it back to Decware only to have it not fixed again so I settle on sending it to Glenn who actually fixed it. So ultimately I ended up spending $60+ in shipping charges to Decware and about the same amount in shipping charges to and from Glenn.


----------



## dminches

I haven't found the Decware forums to be all that active.  I posted a question about the Taboo over a month ago and it was never answered.


----------



## Argo Duck

@Mad Dude - I could be interested in being that buyer, as I do have EE support should there still be issues after Decware's repair. PM me if interested.
   
  @Clayton SF - when did you buy your CSP2? Was this before Decware's popularity 'exploded'?
   
  And what type of production problems were fixed? Poor soldering, that sort of thing?
   
  Mere surmise, but I wonder if their fast-growing fame has created these production problems? Or is this something more systemic...


----------



## Clayton SF

@AiDee - I bought my CSP2+ in October 2010 and it took 7 weeks to build.
   
  I know nothing about wiring amps so this is just Glenn's observations when he looked at my amp. I hadn't even opened it up to look at it myself until after I got it back from him:
   
_I think its just a wire left out during its manufacture. The problem is that the filaments should be at 1/2 the power __supply voltage then AC grounded through a capacitor. It is less likely to have heater-to-cathode breakdowns __this way. The filaments will still have a virtual AC ground through a capacitor that will shunt hum and noise __to ground._
   
_I will let you know when I have this finished and I might have to order a capacitor._
   
_This Decware amp is really the same circuit as a Single power PPX3-6SN7 only uses ECC88 instead of 6SN7s. __The amp is really osculating and motor boating and needs a decoupling circuit added to the power supply. __And a grid stopper resistors added at the grid inputs at the tube sockets._
   
_I've already done some of this work and the headphone jack really needs to be replaced and I noticed __the amp really can't drive low impedance phones. It works OK with HD650s or HD800s._


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> @Clayton SF - when did you buy your CSP2? Was this before Decware's popularity 'exploded'?
> 
> And what type of production problems were fixed? Poor soldering, that sort of thing?
> 
> Mere surmise, but I wonder if their fast-growing fame has created these production problems? Or is this something more systemic...


 
   
  I also share the same concerns.
   
  Since Decware is a "home-grown" company, given their really low prices, I'm also thinking along the same lines.
   
  Production QC could be a problem if they are overloaded with too many orders.
   
   
  BTW, my CSP2+ is hum and hiss free (and trouble free) from day one.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I haven't found the Decware forums to be all that active.  I posted a question about the Taboo over a month ago and it was never answered.


 
   
  Steve is usually too busy to respond to posts on the forum.
   
  You can get a swift response by sending an e-mail to Sarah (Sarah@Decware.com) instead.
   
  Decware recently got themselves an "AI" assistant called Sarah Bot over here
http://www.decware.com/newsite/contacts.html


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> .....
> 
> _This Decware amp is really the same circuit as a Single power PPX3-6SN7 only uses ECC88 instead of 6SN7s. __The amp is really osculating and motor boating and needs a decoupling circuit added to the power supply. __And a grid stopper resistors added at the grid inputs at the tube sockets._
> 
> _I've already done some of this work and the headphone jack really needs to be replaced and I noticed __the amp really can't drive low impedance phones. It works OK with HD650s or HD800s._


 
   
  I Googled "_Single power PPX3-6SN7_"
   
http://www.soundstage.com/allinyourhead/allinyourhead200410.htm
   
  The history is very interesting. The owner-inventor was "Mikhail Rotenberg".
  He sold his amp to a respected member of Head-fi.
  The rest as they say is history.
   
  BTW, my Decware CSP2+ works great with my Beyer DT880 - 600Ohms.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> BTW, my Decware CSP2+ works great with my Beyer DT880 - 600Ohms.


 
   
  ... and it is absolutely stellar with my Beyer DT990 - 600 Ohms. Chrystal clear, with lots of punch, sparkle, and air.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ... and it is absolutely stellar with my Beyer DT990 - 600 Ohms. Chrystal clear, with lots of punch, sparkle, and air.


 

 I have emailed Devon Deckert who is a friend also and she has made Steve aware of this thread. I had some issues that were rectified without incident and mostly with the Taboo due to the HE6. I have had no issues with my CSP2. It is an outstanding preamp as well as headphone amp, It plays low impedance cans like my AKG550 and M60 but really shines with my 770 and especially the hD800. Hopefully Steve addresses the concerns here and remember he been around since 1996 so he not a fly by night guy like Mikhail who robbed members here,


----------



## Argo Duck

Thanks @Clayton SF - really helpful notes in case my EE friend is needed!
   
  @Lord Soth - yes, we're on the same page. Thanks for your valuable input here and throughout the tube forums!
   
  @Frank I - huge thanks to you  for inviting Decware into the loop here. It's possible this is just bad luck - no assembly process is perfect - but if it's something like we discuss above Steve Deckert needs to know.
   
  @Mad Dude and I have been in touch, and we may have a satisfactory ending in sight...


----------



## ZenTriode

Mad Dude,
  
 I'm sorry you're having such bad luck with your CSP2+!   Especially being somewhat new to tubes.  I'm at a bit of a disadvantage since I don't know your real name or how old the unit is, but for what it's worth, I have always covered the shipping both ways to Europe (or anywhere else) during the 30 day trial (or longer pending circumstances) and then reset the 30 days to start again once you have your unit back.  While it rarely happens, (we have less than 1% return rate) I always appreciate the opportunity to fix our mistakes.  And if after we've fixed it you still wanted to sell it, we would ship it to the buyer with warranty transferred at no additional cost to make up for some of your disappointment.  This is how I've always done it with everyone. Of course holding it for a week or two while you list it for sale isn't a problem.  I think Sarah was more referring to having amps sit around here for months, which has happened in the past.  We hate to see you give up on tubes.
  
 FX5K,
  
 I don't believe I've ever had a transformer fail in a CSP2+.  It's a 150ma transformer with a 30ma load and draws about 1/2 the heater current it's rated for.  Again, at somewhat of a disadvantage here not knowing how old and not being able to look it up without a real name, if the unit comes back and is found defective it will be repaired under warranty at break neck speed and returned to you. If this is a new unit, again, there would be no shipping fees for you, we would cover it.   
  
 AiDee,
  
 We have gotten a lot busier over the years, but you'll notice our lead time has just steadily increased instead of our quality steadily decreasing which might be the norm for some companies.  We have gone from an average 4 week turn around to on average 12 to 14 weeks at present.  This is because everything is done exactly the same as it's always been, and by the same 4 men.  The only change has been the new assembly space that can be seen here:
  
 http://www.decware.com/newsite/whatsnew.html
  
  
 All I can say is if anyone is having problems with one of our components, please call.  We have a well established record of bending over backwards to make things right.  Plus we don't want products being sold that aren't 100% working right nor do we want our products modded because for better or worse it usually changes the sound and then it's not an original Decware.
  
 Yes, we are human and there will be an occasional mistake, but they are few and handled with complete integrity.  
  
 Steve Deckert


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ... and it is absolutely stellar with my Beyer DT990 - 600 Ohms. Chrystal clear, with lots of punch, sparkle, and air.


 
   
  I'm really sorry to hear about Mad Dude's numerous problems with the CSP2+.
  I've also had my fair share of similar problems with another tube amp manufacturer (not Decware), but that is another story.
  My transformers blew up and it was too costly (or rather not cost effective) to send my amp both ways overseas to get it repaired even though it had a one year warranty.
  Suffice to say, there is always an element of risk involved for any tube amp purchase, especially when one purchases a tube amp from a country which is foreign to the buyer.
   
  Another caveat for the CSP2+ would be that it can sound bad if you use the wrong combination of tubes.
  For example, in my audio chain, the Valvo CCa has an over bloated bass when used in the CSP2+ (with a Tung Sol 5Y3GT rectifier).
  (I'm sure that the Valvo CCa is still a wonderful sounding tube in other audio system though.)
   
  However, with the right combination of tubes, the CSP2+ is really State of the Art.
  I have tube rolled many makes (e.g. Siemens CCas, Lorenz, Mullards, Telefunken, Philips, Russian 6N1Ps .... etc) of the ECC88/E88CC/7308 family of tubes with the CSP2+ and have finally settled on the following combination.
  1. Rectifier - Tung Sol 5Y3GT (Thanks to Skylab over here for his 5Y3 rectifier recommendation)
  2. L/R Drivers - Siemens Grey Shields E188CC
  3. Input Tube - Amperex (US) Pinched Waist 6922  (Yes, Joe's Tube lore is correct. The PW is the "King" of the ECC88 family! IMHO, the Lorenz tubes would be "Queen" 
   
  Source : Oppo BDP-95
  Cans: Beyer DT 880 - 600 Ohms
   
  With this combination of tubes, jazz vocalists such as Ella Fitzgerald have a* living breathing presence* when I listen to my headphones.
  There is also sonic clarity, tonal and timbre accuracy, excellent instrument separation and soundstage, tight and impactful bass, "air" from wind instruments.... basically all the boxes in my audiophile checklist are ticked!
   
  Yes, there are much better cans out there such as the Audeze LCD 2, LCD 3 and Stax Earspeakers and what not.
  But what makes the CSP2+ truely exceptional is its ability to turn my humble pair of Beyer DT880 into a pair of "earspeakers" in my audio chain.
   
  Kudos to Decware (and Steve Deckert), for my little piece of audio nirvana, I don't have to spend 5 grand for a pair of "earspeakers" nor do I have to spend 3 to 4 Grand for another SOTA headphone tube amp.


----------



## Mad Dude

Steve,
  Thanks for looking into the issues with my CSP2, I really appreciate it. I've sent a PM with more details, I'm sure we can find a solution.
   
  Admittedly my decision to let the amp go has not changed, but I'm not glad about it. As mentioned before, the CSP2+ does sound terriffic, and various statements by other owners of Decware gear only confirm this. I hope you guys continue to enjoy these amps. I sure did, if only for a short time.


----------



## Argo Duck

Hi Steve,
   
  I too really appreciate your statements clarifying yours and Decware's policy. This is completely reassuring.
   
  Your points in answer to me are well made. I recently bought my first Decware amp (Taboo) from you. It has been problem-free and _stunning_ with my LCD-2 and even pretty good with my Beyerdynamic T1 for which (600-ohms) it is not  ideally matched.
   
  My only 'problem' has been that it makes the differences between tubes so obvious I clearly have a journey ahead of me to find the 'right' ones!
   
  Mad Dude has decided to continue his search elsewhere and I am happy to be the new owner of his CSP2+ on the understanding it will be checked out by Decware and then sent directly on to me.
   
  Best wishes and thanks again for your comment in this forum,
   
  André


----------



## Hi-Five

Sorry but I have to share...so excited as my ZP3 status just was updated to "QC Testing!"  I can't wait for the new amp to join it's siblings the CSP+ and Taboo.  I think my setup will be "finished" for quite awhile as it really seems hard to improve on this holy triad!  I'd have to get upgraded ears to go any further!
   
  Thanks again Decware, right on schedule and always worth the wait!


----------



## WNBC

I had my auditory nerve directly cabled to my headphone drivers for the ultimate upgrade and rush.  I suggest going with the 5 foot Q cable for showering purposes.
       
   
  Quote: 





hi-five said:


> I think my setup will be "finished" for quite awhile as it really seems hard to improve on this holy triad!  I'd have to get upgraded ears to go any further!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





hi-five said:


> Sorry but I have to share...so excited as my ZP3 status just was updated to "QC Testing!"  I can't wait for the new amp to join it's siblings the CSP+ and Taboo.  I think my setup will be "finished" for quite awhile as it really seems hard to improve on this holy triad!  I'd have to get upgraded ears to go any further!
> 
> Thanks again Decware, right on schedule and always worth the wait!


 
  Congrats! I am looking at early November to get my CSP2+. I can hardly wait!


----------



## Hi-Five

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> I had my auditory nerve directly cabled to my headphone drivers for the ultimate upgrade and rush.  I suggest going with the 5 foot Q cable for showering purposes.


 
   
  Sweet! I have my wetwire surgery scheduled for next week...should I splurge for the silver dock connector behind my ear?


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





zentriode said:


> FX5K,
> 
> I don't believe I've ever had a transformer fail in a CSP2+.  It's a 150ma transformer with a 30ma load and draws about 1/2 the heater current it's rated for.  .....


 
   
  Yes, the CSP2+ is a very reliable and well built.
   
  Before I carry out an official audition (aka "tube rolling") of the ECC88 family of NOS tubes, I use my CSP2+ to carry out tube conditioning.
   
  What this entails is leaving the CSP2+ on continuously for 24 hrs straight.
  I carry out a 24 hrs cycle of heater only and a few more rounds of another 24hrs with audio input to burn in and condition my NOS tubes.
   
  I have carried out this process numerous times. I estimate that my CSP2+ has been burned in for over 500 hrs++ for many batches of ECC88 tubes.
   
  Suffice to say, my CSP2+ is still very much alive and kicking!


----------



## longbowbbs

This photo popped up on facebook as a "Share if you know what these are" oldies photo.....Should we let them know we're here?


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





hi-five said:


> Sweet! I have my wetwire surgery scheduled for next week...should I splurge for the silver dock connector behind my ear?


 
   
  Yes, you bet!
   
  Your audio upgrade should resemble the following ala johnny mnemonic....

   
  And with the rise in popularity of FLAC and ALAC and MP3 files, be sure to upgrade your harddrive as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
   
  The following person neglected to upgrade his harddrive..........

   
  And he was using a Schitt Lyr which made the "magic smoke" come out from his headphones!
   
  Moral of the story.... Stick to Decware products. LOL


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Yes, you bet!
> 
> Your audio upgrade should resemble the following ala johnny mnemonic....
> 
> ...


 
  Have to laugh....He doubled to 80 GB....With lossless that would be a small collection....Johnny's head might have exploded with FLAC's


----------



## Nyvar

After 6 weeks of waiting they shipped!!  The speaker cables that is.  I figure another 6+ weeks for the speakers.  Unfortunately since I don't have any other speakers, I will be able to do nothing but admire them until the DM945s arrive.


----------



## DannyB

How does the Mini-Torii (MT) sound signature compare to a 2A3 sound. Also, will the MT drive the HE6?


----------



## Skylab

I can't answer the first question, but the MT uses a 6V6 power pentode, certainly very different from a 2A3 triode.

As for the HE-6, the MT sounds quite good driving it, but I do think it needs more power than the MT has, ideally. I like the MT best with Audeze,


----------



## DannyB

I have been using a 307A with Pinnacle trannys and a Moth 2A3 with the HE6 both of which sound very good until one gets to the high volume range. Both amps seem to fizzle out a bit and not drive the headphones as well as they deserve. I guess I need a little more tube power or perhaps a hybrid. I really do like the HE6 and am trying to center my headphone set up around them.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah I like the HE-6 best with my powerful vintage amps. They really need a lot of power.


----------



## DannyB

I tried my HE6 with my McIntosh MC4100,1900 and 1700. The problem was none of them had the detail of my dedicated headphone amps. I suppose I may have to do a bit of work on them to bring them up to a higher level of performance if I want to use them for the HE6. Eventually, I will likely sell the 307A and get something more appropriate for the HE6 as those will be my main headphone set. I did hook them up to the speaker terminals of my Aragon Palladium monoblocks and they sounded great. But what a lot of amplifier to just drive headphones.


----------



## snapontom

I am awaiting my CSP2+ and Taboo.  I am getting the VCAPS, and a silver wired resistor so I don't have to have the Taboo connected to speakers.  I also ordered the 0.5m silver interconnects from DECWARE to go between the CSP2+ and the Taboo.  I have the 6 foot 8 strand headphone cable coming from NorseAudio.  I will be running the Audez'e Lcd2 rev. 2's.  This equipment will take hours and hours to burn in, so I plan on tuning in a radio station and running it all while I sleep at night.  If you have a better suggestion for breaking this equip in, please let me know.


----------



## Hi-Five

Regarding burn-in I believe Decware recommends 5 hours on and 5 hours off for the first 100 hours or so...something like that.  That's how i did both of my amps and had no issues.  The stuff sounds so good to begin with, it just gets better the more you listen, so I guess I felt it didn't need any hardcore burning in to be enjoyable.
   
  Just my 2c


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





snapontom said:


> I am awaiting my CSP2+ and Taboo.  I am getting the VCAPS, and a silver wired resistor so I don't have to have the Taboo connected to speakers.  I also ordered the 0.5m silver interconnects from DECWARE to go between the CSP2+ and the Taboo.  I have the 6 foot 8 strand headphone cable coming from NorseAudio.  I will be running the Audez'e Lcd2 rev. 2's.  This equipment will take hours and hours to burn in, so I plan on tuning in a radio station and running it all while I sleep at night.  If you have a better suggestion for breaking this equip in, please let me know.


 
   
  For burning in cables and other audio equipment, I highly recommend the frybaby
http://www.hagtech.com/frybaby.html
   
  It also comes with free worldwide shipping.


----------



## dminches

snapontom said:


> I am awaiting my CSP2+ and Taboo.  I am getting the VCAPS, and a silver wired resistor so I don't have to have the Taboo connected to speakers.  I also ordered the 0.5m silver interconnects from DECWARE to go between the CSP2+ and the Taboo.  I have the 6 foot 8 strand headphone cable coming from NorseAudio.  I will be running the Audez'e Lcd2 rev. 2's.  This equipment will take hours and hours to burn in, so I plan on tuning in a radio station and running it all while I sleep at night.  If you have a better suggestion for breaking this equip in, please let me know.




Which resistor are you getting? I am waiting for my taboo so I will need to do the same thing.


----------



## WNBC

How come resistors are needed if one uses the Taboo for headphones?  Does this have to do with the CSP2+ as a pre-amp and people with just the Taboo do not need to do this?
   
  Quote: 





snapontom said:


> I am awaiting my CSP2+ and Taboo.  I am getting the VCAPS, and a silver wired resistor so I don't have to have the Taboo connected to speakers.  I also ordered the 0.5m silver interconnects from DECWARE to go between the CSP2+ and the Taboo.  I have the 6 foot 8 strand headphone cable coming from NorseAudio.  I will be running the Audez'e Lcd2 rev. 2's.  This equipment will take hours and hours to burn in, so I plan on tuning in a radio station and running it all while I sleep at night.  If you have a better suggestion for breaking this equip in, please let me know.


----------



## snapontom

If the Taboo is hooked up to headphones it was recommended by Steve Deckart that the Taboo also be hooked up to speakers or to  resistors.  I am not sure of the specs on the resistor.  It has nothing to do with the CSP2+ in combo.  I ordered the resistors on a silver wires from Steve for $70, that way the amp will work like it is connected to speakers.


----------



## WNBC

Thank you, I did not know that.  Does anybody else sell them?  Mainly for the time factor.  Decware is so busy that if I could get a cheap, temporary pair of resistors then I could use them to determine whether a difference can be heard and if so I'd buy the more expensive Decware version.
   
   
  Quote: 





snapontom said:


> If the Taboo is hooked up to headphones it was recommended by Steve Deckart that the Taboo also be hooked up to speakers or to  resistors.  I am not sure of the specs on the resistor.  It has nothing to do with the CSP2+ in combo.  I ordered the resistors on a silver wires from Steve for $70, that way the amp will work like it is connected to speakers.


----------



## Argo Duck

This is all news to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 though I did note recent comment that 'phones connected to Taboo sound better when speakers are connected as well. Guess I should do some listening tests...
   
  OTOH, as Steve Deckert designed Taboo I'm willing to take him at his word 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The resistive load should presumably be 8 ohms, as that's where Taboo's six watts is rated. *But don't take my word on this. We need specs provided by Steve or an EE familiar with output-transformer based tube amps.*


----------



## DannyB

Does this resistor issue also apply to the Mini-Torii?


----------



## Skylab

It does not


----------



## Argo Duck

This resistor/speaker loading recommended for Taboo when listening to headphones worries me a bit!
   
  From the little I understand of Steve's design notes, Taboo is a novel design. A side-effect of this novelty clearly is that loading the speaker outputs is recommended even though one would think they are 'out of circuit' when listening to 'phones. This implies there is some degree of interaction between the phones and speakers.
   
  Now consider this: speakers - especially 2-way and up - present complex, frequency-dependent loads. This means the_ simple, purely resistive load_ of your typical ortho becomes to some degree complex 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






   
  Effectively, speakers connected to the Taboo become an added variable in tuning one's Taboo for phone listening! Added, that is, to the variables of tube choice.
   
  This may be fun or this may be disquieting - certainly the latter for someone like me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Mitigating all this is that one-way speakers are likely to be connected, and probably present simpler loads than your typical multi-driver, crossover-based speaker.
   
  My conclusion FWIW - I like the idea of a resistor much better as it's a much simpler load than a typical speaker and eliminates an extra tuning variable. [edited for clarity]
   
  ps: And my Taboo started to sound a shade less good recently. It was also recently I substituted Kef Kit (2-way) satellites. Hmm...


----------



## WNBC

AiDee is indicating the addition of speakers did not confer an acoustic advantage.
   
  Since the resistor is news to a lot of Taboo owners, has anybody else tried A/B'ing efficient speakers + headphones at the same time?
  My Taboo is far from being burned in and I don't own efficient speakers.  I suppose any speakers would work but I'll wait until my Taboo has settled which is roughly 400 hours from now (V-Caps)


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> AiDee is indicating the addition of speakers did not confer an acoustic advantage.
> 
> Since the resistor is news to a lot of Taboo owners, has anybody else tried A/B'ing efficient speakers + headphones at the same time?
> My Taboo is far from being burned in and I don't own efficient speakers.  I suppose any speakers would work but I'll wait until my Taboo has settled which is roughly 400 hours from now (V-Caps)


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Just to clarify, addition of _KEF KIT satellites_ did not confer advantage and possibly disadvantage. I recently thought Taboo sounded slightly less good (slightly muddy, slightly soft). I started changing driver tubes without really figuring it out. *In hindsight this could've happened when I switched in the KEF KITs*.
   
  At the time I spent a week or two listening to just them and they sounded surprisingly ok. During this time I didn't listen to the LCD2s. So of course I wouldn't immediately notice anything wrong, supposing this was the problem.
   
  If the KEFs are at fault this might be a complex impedance curve (from the KEF's 2-way + panel-speaker assembly and crossover) interacting with Taboo's HP output. *This is surmise but seems implied by Steve's reported statement that hp SQ improves if the speaker outputs are loaded. *
   
  Before the KEFs a pair of Joey Roth ceramic speakers were connected - simple one-ways, no crossover. I didn't notice and wasn't looking for improvement, but I didn't notice any _reduction_ in SQ either.
   
  When I get time I'll try some careful listening comparisons. Meantime, interested in others' experiences too.
   
  ps: My Taboo also VCAP'd and well over its 400 hours.


----------



## Argo Duck

www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1325804911/15
   
  Read the first post (from Don W, 10 January 2012) on the page linked above for more reported comments from Steve Deckert. This is one of the Taboo topics in the Decware forums. Here's a summary of what parts I think Steve said directly:
   
"headphones without speakers connected will sound different. Not necessarily worse or better, but different...depend[ing] on the headphones....You can bridge the speaker connectors with a resistor to get the same results .... [use] 4, 8, 10 ohm resistor or just experiment to get the result you want"
   
*[Warning: IF you "experiment" I would not advise going lower than Steve's reported 4 ohms on each  speaker output!]*
   
It sounds like the OP on this point might have been told something slightly different but going just on Don W's post the take home points for me are:
   
  1. Sound different with/without speakers connected
  2. May be better, may be worse. Experiment!
  3. Can use resistors instead of speakers - one per +/- speaker output
  4. Or just don't worry - phones alone is fine too
   
  Seems to me this basically _is_ an extra tuning variable - *might or might not be an experiment with SQ benefits but not essential.*


----------



## WNBC

Agreed.  I sent an email to Steve (probably a lot of people did) and will let you all know what he says.
   
  Quote: 





> Seems to me this basically _is_ an extra tuning variable - *might or might not be an experiment with SQ benefits but not essential.*


----------



## Frank I

When I owned the Taboo I  used 93DB single drive Omega speakers and mine also had a switch at my request which allowed me to cut off the speakers when I was listening to my Orthos and D7K. I had zero issues with the amp. Not sure if you guys have that switch. I was the first to have the headphone jack and I discussed the switch as I did not want to hear the speakers and the headphones at the same time.  Steve listened to my needs and designed the amp the way I wanted it with the headphone jack in the front and the switch installed. I also would not use less than 93DB 8ohm speakers with the Taboo.


----------



## Llloyd

thanks for the response frank. ill look into some efficient speakers when I get some cash. I do not have a cutoff switch but it's in a convenient location where it's not a huge pain to unplug the speakers if I need. it would be nice though! I might stop in my local audio store and see what kind of efficient speakers they carry


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





llloyd said:


> thanks for the response frank. ill look into some efficient speakers when I get some cash. I do not have a cutoff switch but it's in a convenient location where it's not a huge pain to unplug the speakers if I need. it would be nice though! I might stop in my local audio store and see what kind of efficient speakers they carry


 
  We should do a sub thread on Taboo friendly speaker....


----------



## Argo Duck

Thanks Frank. My Taboo is like yours I believe - a switch (left side at the back, looking from the front) toggles between Phones only or Speakers only.
   
  That's what confused me about the original post. "Switched out" usually means just that. But we're talking unusual and ingenious equipment here so I thought maybe...
   
*And now @Llloyd tells us he doesn't have the switch?! Is that right Llloyd - you don't have the switch I describe above?*
   
  Steve explained recently the same four people build these amps as have always done. I wonder if each does it slightly different? If so, I don't mind this in the least. It's like getting an individual masterpiece.
   
  I have plans to get an efficient one-way speaker but they're scarce in New Zealand - as in not retailed here at all.
   
  So hey @longbowbbs I agree - you gonna start it?


----------



## Llloyd

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Thanks Frank. My Taboo is like yours I believe - a switch (left side at the back, looking from the front) toggles between Phones only or Speakers only.
> 
> That's what confused me about the original post. "Switched out" usually means just that. But we're talking unusual and ingenious equipment here so I thought maybe...
> 
> *And now @Llloyd tells us he doesn't have the switch?! Is that right Llloyd - you don't have the switch I describe above?*


 
   
  This is correct.  The only switches on my amplifier are on/off and lucid/normal mode.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





llloyd said:


> This is correct.  The only switches on my amplifier are on/off and lucid/normal mode.


 

 You may want to call Steve about that and see why you dont have that switch, I would want it if I were you so you always have the speakers set up. Major pain the the butt to unhook them


----------



## WNBC

I don't have a cut off switch for my Taboo.  I bought one off the forums.  It was a recent build so he received it 2 weeks ago and then I got it last week.  I am fine with no switches because the main goal is to use it for headphones.  And I'm fine unplugging a couple cables if I ever do get some efficient speakers.  
   
  Longbowbbs start that thread on efficient speakers for Taboo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



http://www.klipsch.com/rb-51-ii-bookshelf-speakers-pair
  How about 92dB as efficient?


----------



## Argo Duck

Nah - Llloyd's Taboo has higher resale value because of the missing switch


----------



## Argo Duck

Et tu WNBC?!
   
  Clearly indeed Taboos with HP-outs are built at least two different ways...
   
  I don't have a problem with this either, and I think this finally clears the confusion whether you need speakers/resistors:

 If you have the HP/Speaker switch, you _don't_ need them
 If you don't have the switch, experiment (or not) by all means


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> I don't have a cut off switch for my Taboo.  I bought one off the forums.  It was a recent build so he received it 2 weeks ago and then I got it last week.  I am fine with no switches because the main goal is to use it for headphones.  And I'm fine unplugging a couple cables if I ever do get some efficient speakers.
> 
> Longbowbbs start that thread on efficient speakers for Taboo
> 
> ...


 
  How would a speaker thread go over at Head-Fi? The Taboo IS a Headphone amp....., hmmmmm.....


----------



## WNBC

I guess you don't see the other threads about much less relevant things like knife-fi, video games for iphone, rate the latest video game played, top 5 movies, rate the last movie watched, do any of you guys cook, gif wars, electric shaver fi, need a cheap pair of speakers, event monitors, magnepan mini system, found injured starving cat, the TV thread, etc.
   
  I don't think a thread at least about a headphone amp and it's 2nd use would be that crazy on THIS website.....hmmmmmm.....
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> How would a speaker thread go over at Head-Fi? The Taboo IS a Headphone amp....., hmmmmm.....


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Yep!
   
  Sorry longbowbbs - you're in the frame. You're just gonna have to start that thread


----------



## longbowbbs

argo duck said:


> ^ Yep!
> 
> Sorry longbowbbs - you're in the frame. You're just gonna have to start that thread



 
 Here we go! http://www.head-fi.org/t/620976/decware-taboo-headphone-amp-speaker-thread


----------



## Hi-Five

My Decware update...
   
  I received my new ZP3 today and hooked it up to the CSP+ / Taboo combo and I'm in heaven.  It sounds a little thin as the tubes warm up, but my word this thing is dead quiet and clear as a bell.
   
  I can't wait for things to warm up so the burn-in can happen!
   
  Kudos again Steve!


----------



## tink97

Well looks like my trap speakers are being made ....now comes the hardest part of any wait...when its near the end lol.  Going to be using it with my mini torii...should be great heh.
   
  Have a good one all
   
  tink97


----------



## WNBC

After taking into account impedance, the headphone and speaker output power of the Taboo are equal?  I'm assuming yes but just wanted to make sure.


----------



## Argo Duck

Not in the way you calculate it for a typical, low Zout (output impedance) SS amp.  I tried it that way and came up with just under a watt. Skylab rightly chided me for that, as Taboo has an output transformer!
   
  Chris J, one of the EEs on head-fi, calculated it properly based on a plausible transformer Zout - I think the post is in the Taboo thread, around April/May (?) this year. 
   
  Taboo output power into 50 ohms is a healthy 2W plus IIRC. It certainly sounds it.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Et tu WNBC?!
> 
> Clearly indeed Taboos with HP-outs are built at least two different ways...
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hey A,
  I've been lurking here for a while.
  The loaded speaker tap question is interesting. A loaded question?   Never mind, bad joke.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I'll assume that when your Taboo is equipped with a headphone switch then either the speaker is driven or the headphones are driven? i.e. this switch never puts the HP and the speaker in parallel?
  I would guess that if you don't have the switch then the amp probably sounds different when 'phones are plugged in AND the speaker output is loaded down with a (for example) 8 Ohm resistor because the amp was optimized for an 8 Ohm load. Assuming this to be true, the distortion may decrease when loaded down with an 8 Ohm load because the feedback loop may have been optimized for this. But it is more likely that the distortion increases a bit when loaded down with an 8 Ohm load as the output tubes and transformer have more current passing thru them. Since this is an SE amp, you may be getting a bit more _pleasant sounding_ second order harmonic distortion.
   
  If you want to try this out for yourself see if you can get your hands on a pair of 2 or 3 Watt, 8 Ohm metal film resistors. Personally, I can't see why I would want to bother with a resistor with silver leads.
  I can't try this myself as I am *NOT* a lucky Taboo owner!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  And that's just my SWAG in it!


----------



## Argo Duck

Quote: 





chris j said:


> distortion may decrease when loaded down with an 8 Ohm load because the feedback loop may have been optimized for this. But it is more likely that the distortion increases a bit when loaded down with an 8 Ohm load as the output tubes and transformer have more current passing thru them. Since this is an SE amp, you may be getting a bit more _pleasant sounding_ second order harmonic distortion.


 
   
  Well now _this_ is an interesting comment.
   
  Thanks Chris!


----------



## snapontom

My CSP2+ is in testing before shipping.  I have 2 outputs ordered.  One will go to my Bob Latino SV-120 modernized Dynaco amplifier, which I really like.  The other output will go to my TABOO which is on the bench being made with VCAPS.  I received my Norse 8 strand 6 foot headphone cables which will connect LCD2 v2 headphones from Audeze to the TABOO.  I got the 0.5m DECWARE RCA cables and they made an immediate difference between my BITFROST DAC from Schitt and my SV-120.  The Zen master himself recommended the resistor cables if the TABOO is not hooked up to speakers, who am I to go any other way.  That being said I am very interested in speakers for the TABOO or my Dynaco.  I purchased the Heresy IIIs and though they are breaking in nicely with the rest of the system, they lack bass.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Great! Of course you could add a sub - run it off the mono out of the CSP2+


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Well now _this_ is an interesting comment.
> 
> Thanks Chris!


 
   
  Well, thank _you!_
  I would usually assume that SET designs can be rather sensitive to device and operating changes.
  In part because SETs are usually low feedbck designs and are obviously very simple topologies.
  This is not meant as criticism or damnation BTW!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  .


----------



## WNBC

Hey ChrisJ, seems like you know how these amps operate. Any suggestions on where to buy a 8 ohm 2 watt resistor. Upon a google search one finds resistors but not sure if they are the right ones. I do not have the switch. Thanks




chris j said:


> If you want to try this out for yourself see if you can get your hands on a pair of 2 or 3 Watt, 8 Ohm metal film resistors. Personally, I can't see why I would want to bother with a resistor with silver leads.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Hey ChrisJ, seems like you know how these amps operate. Any suggestions on where to buy a 8 ohm 2 watt resistor. Upon a google search one finds resistors but not sure if they are the right ones. I do not have the switch. Thanks


 
   
  Hey.........
  My point is that I would not agonize too much about what 8 Ohm, 2 Watt resistor to buy. There is not a lot of "secret sauce" in resistors!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Try Newark Electronics or The Parts Connexion.    When I get some spare time I'll see if I can find something a bit more concrete.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Hey ChrisJ, seems like you know how these amps operate. Any suggestions on where to buy a 8 ohm 2 watt resistor. Upon a google search one finds resistors but not sure if they are the right ones. I do not have the switch. Thanks


 
  Hey Dubya,
  Try Mouser Electronics.
  They sell IRC brand wirewound resistors, 8 ohms, 2 Watts.  $0.61 each.
*They probably have a minumum buy so you could experiment and buy a pair of 10 ohm, 12 ohm, 16 ohm, etc.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




or
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




or
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


*
  The tolerance is 5%, but I would not worry too much about the tolerance for this purpose.
  You want to buy an "axial" type.
   
  If you go to 10 Ohms then you will have even more choices of 2 Watt resistors in stock:
  ceramic composition
  metal film resistors
  wirewound resistors
  metal oxide resistors
  carbon film resistors 
  I doubt the materail will make a difference, but you could get various resistor types and experiment.
   
  Or Parts Connexion:
  They sell the Mills MRA-5    $3.95 each
  This is a 5 Watt resistor available in 8.2 Ohms, 9.1 Ohms, 10 Ohms, etc
   
  You can PM me if you need more info.
  Cheers, CJ


----------



## WNBC

Thanks, I was asking more because I don't want to blow up my Taboo (if that was possible) so if I knew exactly the product I could blame you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  So essentially I would need two resistors?  One for each channel?    
   
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=019-020
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062288
   
   
  Quote: 





chris j said:


> Hey.........
> My point is that I would not agonize too much about what 8 Ohm, 2 Watt resistor to buy. There is not a lot of "secret sauce" in resistors!
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Thanks, I was asking more because I don't want to blow up my Taboo (if that was possible) so if I knew exactly the product I could blame you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes you need one resistor for each channel so you need two resistors.
  The one from parts express is probably the size of a brick, you don't need anything that large, it will be too cumbersome and ugly.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  The one from radio shack looks lie it has extremly short leads so you would have to solder on additional wire leads.
  Most of the resistors I suggested would have long enough leads to go across your speaker terminals. Nice and neat, no muss, no fuss.
   
  If it blows up I will blame AiDee because he is from NZ and he probably deserves it!


----------



## Argo Duck

Heh heh - no worries, I've got big shoulders and no one will ever find me here anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Just remind me Chris - how is Canada doing in the Olympics compared to NZ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





> If it blows up I will blame AiDee because he is from NZ and he probably deserves it!


----------



## WNBC

What are some threads dedicated to Decware CSP2+ & Taboo tube rolling?  
  Or do the Woo and Decware owners unite on conversations about rectifiers?
   
  The low end and midrange of this Taboo is crazy good.  Gobs of detail.  70 hours of burn-in so far typically in 3-5 hour bursts.
   
  My current tube configuration is 1957 Sylvania JAN 5U4WG + Gold Lions EL84 + 1966 Siemens & Halske 3-Mica 12AT7 
  A couple people have mentioned 5AR4 tubes to me as something worthwhile to roll 
   
  One interesting thing is that when I first turn on the amp the 12AT7s make an audible sound and glow bright then settle down quickly as the current passes through the amp.  I guess that is the role of the input tube but I haven't observed the light and sound show with my other 12AX7 or 12AU7 tubes.


----------



## Argo Duck

Skylab's CSP2 review thread here has some tube-rolling information. Link is to Lord Soth's recent post which points to a very interesting white paper of Steve D's about the effect of rectifier choice on the CSP2 sound.
   
  Early pages of Frank I's Taboo thread (which you already post in yes?) has some stuff too.
   
  I recently saw useful-looking info in the Schiit Lyr tube-rolling thread of all places. I'll have to search to find it again (or just try Taboo and CSP2 in the search function).
   
  I agree Taboo is crazy good - especially since I changed rectifier from the stock Chinese 5U4 to Tung Sol 5Y3GT.
   
  I have a Mullard 12AT7 which puts on a light display like you describe. I have not seen this with any of about seven other driver tubes.


----------



## WNBC

Thanks for the info, 
  I haven't read Skylab's CSP2 review but will definitely take a look.  
  Good to know that I am not alone with the 12AT7 light show.  
  I probably shouldn't roll until the Taboo is fully burned in but can't hurt to burn some decent tubes at the same time.
   
  Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Skylab's CSP2 review thread here has some tube-rolling information. Link is to Lord Soth's recent post which points to a very interesting white paper of Steve D's about the effect of rectifier choice on the CSP2 sound.
> 
> Early pages of Frank I's Taboo thread (which you already post in yes?) has some stuff too.
> 
> ...


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> ......
> What are some threads dedicated to Decware CSP2+ & Taboo tube rolling?
> Or do the Woo and Decware owners unite on conversations about rectifiers?
> ......


 
  For the CSP2+, besides Skylab's fantastic CSP2+ review over here in Head-Fi, there is a wonderful rectifier tube rolling thread posted by "JDM" over in the Decware forum.
http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1208182422
   
  The Tung Sol 5Y3 and Bendix 6106 is highly rated. Some people might prefer the Sylvania 5Y3 variant for a slightly darker sound.
   
  The most cost effective way to tube roll the CSP2+ is the single input tube position.
  I've tried many of the so-called super tubes (e.g. Amperex USA Pinched Waist 6922, Grey shields Siemens 7308, Grey Shields Siemens CCa, Telefunken <> E188CC, Lorenz CCa Stuttgart Germany, French Philips E188CC, Grey Shields Valvo CCa  ...etc) in the solo input position of the CSP2+.
   
  So far, IMHO, my personal favs, in the spirit of the current Olympics  are :-
   
  1. GOLD goes to Amperex (*USA) Pinched Waist 6922 (wonderful balanced tube with natural tone)
  2. SILVER goes to Lorenz E88CC - Stuttgart Germany (99% of the Pinched Waist, lost slightly in a "photo-finish")
  3. BRONZE goes to Lorenz PCC88  - Stuttgart Germany (the best impactful and tight bass). If I had not heard (and even if I did audition) the other 2 above-mentioned tubes, I'll still be contented to live with the PCC88 Lorenz on a deserted island.
  4. 4th Place - Amperex (*USA) Grey Shields Normal 6922 (90% of the pinched Waist)
   
  My current CSP2+ tube choices are
   
  1. Tungsol 5Y3 - Rectifier
  2. 2x Siemens E188CC - L and R position
  3. Amperex 6922 Pinched Waist - Input tube
   
  YMMW.


----------



## WNBC

Thanks, The Tung Sol and Bendix are now on my short list.  
   
  JDM wrote:
5U4WGB Sylvania 5931 - dark, not revealing, musical, congested soundstage; bass: unremarkable; mids: strong vocals; treble: recessed, weak.
   
  If that's the case then I definitely have to roll more rectifiers.  The Sylvania is the only tube I've tried other than the stock. Vocals are strong and it is musical.  I won't know if it gets better in the bass and soundstage until I try something else.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





lord soth said:


> For the CSP2+, besides Skylab's fantastic CSP2+ review over here in Head-Fi, there is a wonderful rectifier tube rolling thread posted by "JDM" over in the Decware forum.
> http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1208182422
> 
> The Tung Sol 5Y3 and Bendix 6106 is highly rated. Some people might prefer the Sylvania 5Y3 variant for a slightly darker sound.
> ...


----------



## supra1988t

Here are the specs for various rectifier families.  http://www.300guitars.com/articles/rectifier-tube-voltage-drop-chart/
   
  Changing the rectifier changes the voltage and "sag" feeding the driver and input tubes.  One rectifier may sound great with one set of tubes but not mesh well with others and vica versa.  This leaves a million combinations to try.  Im finding the higher the output voltage the more pronounced the low end is with most tubes, but you seem to lose a bit of soundstage and dynamics.  Its all about finding the right combo to suit your tastes imo.  Try a bunch for yourself.  I've only had my CSP2+ a few weeks I still have no idea which combo I like best.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





supra1988t said:


> Here are the specs for various rectifier families.  http://www.300guitars.com/articles/rectifier-tube-voltage-drop-chart/
> 
> Changing the rectifier changes the voltage and "sag" feeding the driver and input tubes.  One rectifier may sound great with one set of tubes but not mesh well with others and vica versa.  This leaves a million combinations to try.  Im finding the higher the output voltage the more pronounced the low end is with most tubes, but you seem to lose a bit of soundstage and dynamics.  Its all about finding the right combo to suit your tastes imo.  Try a bunch for yourself.  I've only had my CSP2+ a few weeks I still have no idea which combo I like best.


 
  Ah yes, that reminds me of the "tube arcing" phenomenon reported by CSP2+ owners in the Decware forums.
   
  If you put in a 5U4 rectifier, that will cause the CSP2+ to run the 2x L/R and 1x Input tubes at the highest voltages.
  Running a 5Y3 is the other extreme and will run the input tubes at the lowest voltages.
   
  Some CSP2+ owners have reported that their 6DJ8/ECC88 tubes displayed some initial arcing on startup when the 5U4 rectifier tubes were used.
  A tougher tube such as 6922 or 7308 or 6N1P should not suffer from any arcing.
  The CSP2+ was originally designed to be run with the stock 6N1Ps which sound their best (in theory) at the highest voltages, hence a stock 5U4 is supplied.
   
  So far, for safety reasons, I have only been using the 5Y3 family of rectifiers partly due to what I have read over there.
  And I did have a slight headstart on the Tung Sols 5Y3s due to JDM's recommendation. 
  With the Tung Sol 5Y3, all the various 6DJ8 tubes which I have used have not shown any tube arcing.
   
  Oh, wish you plenty of fun with the tube rolling! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  My wallet did suffer a bit from tube rolling.
  But as per the Mastercard commercial, the tube-rolling experience is fun and *priceless*!


----------



## WNBC

You guys might be on to something here with the tube arcing.  Some of us newbies are going through growing pains.  This is my third tube amp.  First two were Schiit Valhalla and Lyr.  As you can imagine the Lyr is easy to roll and probably no tube arcing.
   
  Let me know what you think is going on here based on these observations that occur when I first turn on the amp:
   
  1.) NOS 5U4WG + new Gold Lion EL84 + NOS Siemens 12AT7 = loud audible pop sound from 12AT7 with a bright flash of light 
       If I use a Lorenz 12AX7 instead of Siemens there is no audible pop but there is a bright flash of light
   
  2.) NOS 5U4WG + new Gold Lion EL84 + new Gold Lions 12AX7 = no loud audible pop sound from 12AX7 and no light show (this tube doesn't glow bright anyway)
   
  3.) Stock Ruby 5U4 + new Gold Lion EL84 + NOS Siemens 12AT7 = no audible pop sound from 12AT7 but still the light flash show
   
  4.) Stock Ruby 5U4 + new Gold Lion EL84 + new Gold Lions 12AX7 = no audible pop sound from 12AX7 and no light show (this tube doesn't glow bright anyway)
   
  AiDee mentioned his 12AT7 did flash as well.  My first input tubes were the JJ 12AU7 and Gold Lions 12AX7 which barely glow.  Now that I am experimenting with more input tubes it is a quite shock to hear pops and see flashes of light when first turning on the Taboo.  *I'm wondering if the flash and pop are just a property of the input tube and not because of anything bad happening to the amp or tubes. * The other tubes are fine, nothing interesting happening with rectifier or power tubes.  Who knew tube rolling could be so scary 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Ah yes, that reminds me of the "tube arcing" phenomenon reported by CSP2+ owners in the Decware forums.


----------



## Frank I

Mullard 12AT7 flashed in the Taboo bit never was arching. Kevin Deal told me that it was perfectly normal for the Mullard to flash and I have had other tubes in different amps do the same. Flash is not arching. I use the 5U4G in my CSP2 with 6922/ 6dj8 and even 7dj8 and never had any issues with any arching in over 2 years of constant use.


----------



## Skylab

Lots of 12V miniatures flash on power up. That's not arcing. The key here is audibility. Arcing will cause a very audible POP if you have headphones connected. I had a Wheatfield HA-2 that arced, and it was enough to take out the driver in my DT-990, and it's a damned good thing I wasn't wearing them at the time.


----------



## WNBC

Thanks for the info.  The flashes are ok.
  The only pop I hear is from the Siemens 12AT7 tube and it is not when the headphones are connected.  When I turn on the amp the headphones are not connected.
   
   
  Quote: 





frank i said:


> Mullard 12AT7 flashed in the Taboo bit never was arching. Kevin Deal told me that it was perfectly normal for the Mullard to flash and I have had other tubes in different amps do the same. Flash is not arching. I use the 5U4G in my CSP2 with 6922/ 6dj8 and even 7dj8 and never had any issues with any arching in over 2 years of constant use.


 
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Lots of 12V miniatures flash on power up. That's not arcing. The key here is audibility. Arcing will cause a very audible POP if you have headphones connected. I had a Wheatfield HA-2 that arced, and it was enough to take out the driver in my DT-990, and it's a damned good thing I wasn't wearing them at the time.


----------



## vinyl addict

With AiDee's help (on a different thread) and endorsement of the Taboo, I will eventually be a part of the "appreciation" thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I just have a couple of questions about the Taboo upgrades and believe starting here is a wise decision.
   
   
  From Decware website:
   
[size=larger]CUSTOM OPTIONS[/size]
 [size=larger][size=smaller]Since the chassis was designed to accommodate additional jacks and even another tube if needed, the following options are available:[/size][/size]

 Choose between the black figured base or the contemporary walnut - FREE 
 Choose from a variety of alternate hardwoods - add $50
 Stepped attenuator - add $250
 V-Caps - add $200
 Headphone jack for Planar Magnetic Ear Phones - add $100
   

   
  - For those who have the V-Cap upgrade, how many caps in total and what are their values?
   
  - Why does the output jack cost $100 for Ortho users? 
   
   
  So I'm gonna pull the trigger soon.  Any advice on what other options to get or not to get?
  Will be using vinyl as the only source so no DAC is needed in this setup.  Cans are LCD-2
   





 cheers!


----------



## Llloyd

Quote: 





vinyl addict said:


> With AiDee's help (on a different thread) and endorsement of the Taboo, I will eventually be a part of the "appreciation" thread
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Don't have vcaps.  There is no headphone jack unless you pay for the mod.  It's not a special headphone jack specifically for planars if that's what you are thinking.  The low output impedence makes it most suitable for planar magnetics, combined with the fact htat if you used high sensitivity headphones who knows what might happen.  I'm sure it's fine but you probably can't turn the volume up very much.  With my HE-500, I generally listen with the volume at around 8 or 9oclock, and the max I go is 12oclock.  
   
  Anyway, it costs 100$ because it takes extra labor.  If you're going to be using speakers as well, make sure to email them and ask for a switch between speakers and headphones.  Apparently they don't default to this.  Some seem to have the switch and some don't.  Mine does not have the switch and while it's not that bad to unplug and plug in my speakers when needed, a switch would make my life a lot easier.


----------



## snapontom

I talked with Steve Deckert when I ordered and he is very confident in the way the TABOO sounds with his caps.  I ordered the VCAPS just because.  I hope I live long enough for them to break in.  The way I see things, the biggest upgrade for the TABOO is the CSP2+.  I think the preamp will help out my Bob Latino SV-120 Dynaco amp too.  I am looking forward to hearing the difference between my two amps.  My LCD2's are in the mail as we speak.  Glad I was able to get the travel case with the headphone order vice the lacquered case.


----------



## vinyl addict

snapontom said:


> I talked with Steve Deckert when I ordered and he is very confident in the way the TABOO sounds with his caps.  I ordered the VCAPS just because.  My LCD2's are in the mail as we speak.  Glad I was able to get the travel case with the headphone order vice the lacquered case.


 
  Still curious about the values of the V-Caps and how many there are.  What are the stock caps anyway?  If they're nice I won't bother with the upgrade.
   
  Congrats on the Audez'e 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





llloyd said:


> The low output impedence makes it most suitable for planar magnetics


 
  What is the output impedance (headphone use)?  I read on a different thread that the Taboo operates at 2W into 60 ohms for the LCD-2.  Is this correct?


----------



## Nyvar

> Still curious about the values of the V-Caps and how many there are.  What are the stock caps anyway?  If they're nice I won't bother with the upgrade.


 
   
   
  Partial answer, which may or may not help, since this is really outside my realm of knowledge. 
   
  So for what is may be worth, there's 1 capacitor in the signal path.  
   
  Stock is GE military polypropylene film, the upgrade Mundorfs, best I can figure out the silver / oil.


----------



## Argo Duck

Hi again vinyl addict!
   
  See this post. Summarized there is my erroneous calculation of 960mW into 50 ohms together with Chris J's correction based on the Taboo schematic, (edit) which suggests a transformer output impedance of six ohms.
   
  2.39W into 50 ohms equates to easily 2W into 60 ohms I would think.


----------



## supra1988t

Is it ok to start up a CSP2+ with no headphones plugged in and plug and unplug while on?  I had a Amperex bugle boy arc and I don't want to mess up my HD650s if it happens again.


----------



## WNBC

I stumbled upon an older Taboo manual today.  May not be applicable to headphones but interesting nonetheless.
   
   
*"BEFORE POWERING UP*
   
  Be sure that you always have speakers connected to this or any tube amp before turning
  it on. Tube amps are typically the opposite of solid state in that you can short the speaker
  wires together and nothing bad will happen."
   
http://www.decware.com/newsite/newtabooownersmanual.pdf
   
  So far so good, I've done both, powering up with and without headphones to the Taboo.  
   
   
  Quote: 





supra1988t said:


> Is it ok to start up a CSP2+ with no headphones plugged in and plug and unplug while on?  I had a Amperex bugle boy arc and I don't want to mess up my HD650s if it happens again.


----------



## wuwhere

Tube amps with output transformers must have a load. That's why when dealers warm them up without speakers, they put a resistor load. If there's no load, there is a impedance mismatch.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





supra1988t said:


> Is it ok to start up a CSP2+ with no headphones plugged in and plug and unplug while on?  I had a Amperex bugle boy arc and I don't want to mess up my HD650s if it happens again.


 
  I start mine all the time without the headphones plugged in and have zero issues


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





supra1988t said:


> Is it ok to start up a CSP2+ with no headphones plugged in and plug and unplug while on?  I had a Amperex bugle boy arc and I don't want to mess up my HD650s if it happens again.


 
   
  For headphone tube amps, the general safety rule (even for for OTL amps such as CSP2+) is that the volume knob (in front of the CSP2+) should always be set to the minimum (i.e. ZERO volume) before you make any changes such as turning your amp on and off or plugging in and unplugging headphones.
  In that way, you essentially have all your bases covered.
   
  For speaker tube amps (e.g. Taboo), they should always be subjected to a load either from the speakers or from a special resistor connected to the speaker terminals. Otherwise the transformers are likely to blow. Even if they don't blow, the longevity of the tube amp will be affected.


----------



## Skylab

There is an important difference here.  The CSP-2 is both OTL, and a pre-amp.  It doesn't need a load connected.  You can leave it without headphones plugged in forever.  It's designed that way.
   
  The Taboo (or Mini-Toril) are output transformer coupled and do require a load to be connected.


----------



## dminches

This may be another good reason to have resistors connected to the Taboo speaker taps so there is always a load.


----------



## tink97

Afternoon everyone!
  My new decware trap speakers arrived today and will be using my mini torii to run them.  I love the size and the sound is very nice with only about a few hours of burn in,  excited to see how these develop 
  So below I posted my old speaker setup and also the new on with the real trap speakers


----------



## Nyvar

Fantastic and congrats.  Out of curiosity from driver install to shipping how long was the wait?  Ok, I confess it's not curiosity, it's impatience.  I want my DM945s NOW!!


----------



## tink97

Hey there,
   
  If I remember rightly it was within the same week once driver was installed to when it was shipped. Either way its very soon lol...Love to hear your impressions on the dm945
   
  have a good one


----------



## Nyvar

Thanks man.  I'd love to get them by next weekend, but not sure that's likely.  So long as they're here before the long weekend, I'll be happy.   I look forward to your impressions as well.  What speaker cables are you using?  I have Decware though my entire system, so despite the cost I went with theirs.


----------



## clowkoy

vinyl addict said:


> With AiDee's help (on a different thread) and endorsement of the Taboo, I will eventually be a part of the "appreciation" thread
> 
> I just have a couple of questions about the Taboo upgrades and believe starting here is a wise decision.
> 
> ...




Let me add my 0.02. 
The caps are the coupling caps, one per channel and the value is 0.1uf 600 volts. The vcaps that Steve put are the TFTF type. They cost around $123/pair. There's a higher end vcap, the CuTF which cost around $187/pair.
Headphone jack would cost additional $100 and another $100 if you want it installed on the front just like mine.

For those who would like to order at Decware, you can get a 5% discount by following this instruction: Order any decware product. Add to cart, select options you want then checkout. When you are on the check out page, hit back button and a message will appear about the discount, hit ok. You will be taken back to your cart. You just get a 5% discount. This will work all the time. If not, clear your browsing history or cache.


----------



## tink97

Quote: 





nyvar said:


> Thanks man.  I'd love to get them by next weekend, but not sure that's likely.  So long as they're here before the long weekend, I'll be happy.   I look forward to your impressions as well.  What speaker cables are you using?  I have Decware though my entire system, so despite the cost I went with theirs.


 
   
   
  Hey Nyvar,
   
  I actually have a pair of decware interconnects, I have an iron lung jellyfish power cord, and my speaker cables are just some cheap $3 per foot cable until I can get me a pair of decware cables.  I have a set of q speaker cables but the banana plugs dont quite fit into the traps so bare wire is better fit. 
   
  I am a big fan of decware that is for sure heh.  They make great stuff.


----------



## Frimpy

I visited the Deware plant in E. Peoria last month and boy was that a treat. Spent 5 hours listening to Decware speakers powered by a Mini Torii. Everything was going well, I was trying to decide on what speakers I liked best when Steve put on the Decware corner horns. Well Pink Floyd happened to be playing and oh my gosh the music became very very full and the music being played was phenomenal. Now this was using 1 yes 1 watt from the Mini Torii....the bass was exquisit.  Went home to see if I could fit them into my family room to no avail, The corner horns are 2'x2'x4' and to large for the area I have available.
  We played some organ music thru the corner horns also, thought I was in a church, so rich and clear.
  I did order the Decware DNA speakers and a Decware integrated SE34i.3 amplifier.
   
  Recently(this week) I received 3 interconnect cables from decware. These cables replace a mishmash of other cables, mostly best buy quality cables. I noticed a difference right away, heard new instruments playing in music I've heard many times. Also noticed more clarity, the ability to define sounds I couldn't define before and the tone of many instruments changed for the better. I Believe  it or I have not been a fan of paying big $$$ for cables.   I am for the 1st time hearing the music as it was recorded and the $450 or so dollars was very well spent.
   
  Present equipment is: Klipsch quartet speakers, Sansui Sr 626 TT, Denon DVD 2910, Mapletree 2a SE Preamp and a Harmon Kardon Citation 19 amplifier.


----------



## longbowbbs

Did you hear any other amps besides the Mini Torii? How about a CSP2+? What Pre-amp were you using?


----------



## Frimpy

Sorry, at the time I was only interested in the Mini Torii so that is the only amplifier I listened to. Steve D. said that all of amplifiers sound the same, you can call him and ask. A pre-amp wasn't used the mini torii was used like an integrated amplifier. Anything else? I am glad to try and clarify anything I can.


----------



## longbowbbs

frimpy said:


> Sorry, at the time I was only interested in the Mini Torii so that is the only amplifier I listened to. Steve D. said that all of amplifiers sound the same, you can call him and ask. A pre-amp wasn't used the mini torii was used like an integrated amplifier. Anything else? I am glad to try and clarify anything I can.




No problems. I hope to get to the factory and listen to the various speakers.


----------



## Nyvar

> I'd love to get them by next weekend, but not sure that's likely.


 
   
  Seems my wish will come true.  They shipped and will arrive on Wednesday.  Stands will arrive tomorrow, and the pad on Wednesday.  If there were any way to work from home Thursday and Friday I would.  Unfortunately, in my case can't happen.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





nyvar said:


> Seems my wish will come true.  They shipped and will arrive on Wednesday.  Stands will arrive tomorrow, and the pad on Wednesday.  If there were any way to work from home Thursday and Friday I would.  Unfortunately, in my case can't happen.


 
  ...Cough Cough...Nyvar! You look sick....I recommend at least a couple of days off to rest up and recover...Maybe starting Wednesday.


----------



## Nyvar

> I recommend at least a couple of days off to rest up and recover.


 
   
  As a master of two truly obscure skill sets, I can get some one to cover for me Tuesdays and in a pinch Wednesday.  Thursday and Friday currently would be a disaster.  I'd work from home, but those are the two days I actually need to talk to people.  
   
  BTW do you use parallels to run JRMC?  Right now I use Audirvana+ but looking at Fidelia and Amarra.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





nyvar said:


> As a master of two truly obscure skill sets, I can get some one to cover for me Tuesdays and in a pinch Wednesday.  Thursday and Friday currently would be a disaster.  I'd work from home, but those are the two days I actually need to talk to people.
> 
> BTW do you use parallels to run JRMC?  Right now I use Audirvana+ but looking at Fidelia and Amarra.


 
  No, I have a PC running Win7 Pro with JRMC and a MacMini Running Amarra. I have the Mini running all AIFF lossless ripped via iTunes and the PC has .WAV or FLAC lossless running JRMC.  Since I have a few albums DL'd off HDTracks.com via FLAC in 96/24 or 192/24 I bought JRMC since Amarra does not do FLAC. I prefer Amarra but JRiver does a nice job and I can hook the HD650's into the Dragonfly DAC or I can use the DacMagic Plus and Amarra. lately, for variety, I shifted the DacMagic Plus to the PC to ru with JRiver. Basically, I am playing until the Decware twins arrive...


----------



## snapontom

Hey all.  My DECWARE CSP2+ arrived and was well packaged. Double boxed, lots of bubble wrap.  I set it up.  I have an iPure feeding a BITFROST DAC and iTunes off my iPhone.  The cable from the DAC to the CSP2+ is a 0.5m DECWARE silver.  The CSP2+ preamp feeds into a Bob Latino Dynaco SV-120, 60wpc, which runs two Heresy III speakers from Klipsitch.  It sounded hard as nails at first, but after warming up for a few hours it began to break in and give me a hint of what I had.  The sound began to bloom in that I was able to experience a holographic affect as the speakers disappeared on the recording I was listening to.  The highs, lows, and mids were brought out more.  I am happy.  My TABOO and more interconnects arrive next week.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





snapontom said:


> Hey all.  My DECWARE CSP2+ arrived and was well packaged. Double boxed, lots of bubble wrap.  I set it up.  I have an iPure feeding a BITFROST DAC and iTunes off my iPhone.  The cable from the DAC to the CSP2+ is a 0.5m DECWARE silver.  The CSP2+ preamp feeds into a Bob Latino Dynaco SV-120, 60wpc, which runs two Heresy III speakers from Klipsitch.  It sounded hard as nails at first, but after warming up for a few hours it began to break in and give me a hint of what I had.  The sound began to bloom in that I was able to experience a holographic affect as the speakers disappeared on the recording I was listening to.  The highs, lows, and mids were brought out more.  I am happy.  My TABOO and more interconnects arrive next week.


 
  Nice intro report! Looking forward to the Taboo and future update.


----------



## setamp

I just made it to page 1 of the waiting list for my Taboo  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





setamp said:


> I just made it to page 1 of the waiting list for my Taboo  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 
  Where did you find the list?


----------



## setamp

http://www.decware.com/newsite/contacts.html

 Go to the bottom of the page and download the real time progress report.


----------



## Nyvar

> I am happy.


 
   
  And I think it's safe to say you'll be come happier and happier as they burn in.    
   
  To contribute to the exciting news my DM945s arrived yesterday, delivered to work.  Unfortunately, things at work went to hell in a handbasket and I was over 2 hours late leaving.  
   
  They got unboxed, and Decware seems to be consistent in packing with same level of quality they put into making their products.  (They probably could have been tossed onto the balcony at work from an airplane and suffered no damage.)   However, setup won't happen until this evening.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





setamp said:


> http://www.decware.com/newsite/contacts.html
> 
> Go to the bottom of the page and download the real time progress report.


 
  Handy! It is fun to see the variety of products on order and where they are being sent.


----------



## tink97

Quote: 





snapontom said:


> Hey all.  My DECWARE CSP2+ arrived and was well packaged. Double boxed, lots of bubble wrap.  I set it up.  I have an iPure feeding a BITFROST DAC and iTunes off my iPhone.  The cable from the DAC to the CSP2+ is a 0.5m DECWARE silver.  The CSP2+ preamp feeds into a Bob Latino Dynaco SV-120, 60wpc, which runs two Heresy III speakers from Klipsitch.  It sounded hard as nails at first, but after warming up for a few hours it began to break in and give me a hint of what I had.  The sound began to bloom in that I was able to experience a holographic affect as the speakers disappeared on the recording I was listening to.  The highs, lows, and mids were brought out more.  I am happy.  My TABOO and more interconnects arrive next week.


 
   
  Grats, enjoy the music!
   
  have  a good one


----------



## dminches

My Taboo status is stuck on "packed.". I am not sure what's holding things up since my card was charged.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dminches said:


> My Taboo status is stuck on "packed.". I am not sure what's holding things up since my card was charged.


 

 shoot Sara an email she let you know if it shipped.


----------



## snapontom

Got my TABOO today and set it up.  Packaged really well.  Had to print out the owner's manual off the web site.  The PDF didn't come up on my Apple so I had to use a windows computer to see it and print it.  I am listening to Theloneus  Monk on the LCD2 headphones.  I keep turning down the volume and gain on the preamp.  I like that I can hear so much at low volume.  I like the sound but expect it to turn to amazing in a couple weeks or months.  I got the resistors to banana plug into the speaker terminals.  I paid $70 for them and they are built really well, perfect.  Its getting late. I can't stop listening to the music!!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





snapontom said:


> Got my TABOO today and set it up.  Packaged really well.  Had to print out the owner's manual off the web site.  The PDF didn't come up on my Apple so I had to use a windows computer to see it and print it.  I am listening to Theloneus  Monk on the LCD2 headphones.  I keep turning down the volume and gain on the preamp.  I like that I can hear so much at low volume.  I like the sound but expect it to turn to amazing in a couple weeks or months.  I got the resistors to banana plug into the speaker terminals.  I paid $70 for them and they are built really well, perfect.  Its getting late. I can't stop listening to the music!!


 
  Where did you get the resistors and which ones did you buy?


----------



## snapontom

I had DECWARE make the resistors for the speaker outs on the TABOO. They consist of banana plugs, and two 3" wires that meet at a resistor box "thingie".  They are well made, and I am happy with the money spent on them.    I also ordered the 0.5m RCA cables which seem to be a good length for the CSP2+ to TABOO connection if they are side by side, and the units are 2 inches apart.  The tubes that came with the TABOO are a 5U4G rectifier, EEC82, and two output 6P15P/SV83.  The owner's manual is understandable, it talks about different tube possibilities.  After warming up for 3-4 hours the system mellowed out a bit.  The manual says it begins to break in after 40+ hours of use.  The Audeze headphones bring the music out at low volume, they still need to break in too.  Audeze has put a softer ear foam on the LCD3 and I'll bet they go with a softer foam on the 2's eventually.  I like the wooden volume control knobs up front on the DECWARE, they seem to go with the standard base that my amps sit on.  I wasn't aware that Vcaps offered a copper core capacitor, I would have specified those for my TABOO, but I am think the tin Vcaps will be fantastic when they break in.


----------



## WNBC

Which pre-amp are you using?
  Nevermind, read your next post 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Did you get the speaker switch put in as well?  Did we every decide if it was necessary to get resistors if one had a speaker switch?
  I sent an email to all 3 people at Decware but never heard back from them as to whether they had the time to make a resistor for me.  Guess I'll have to use this weird thing called a telephone.
   
   
  Quote: 





snapontom said:


> Got my TABOO today and set it up.  Packaged really well.  Had to print out the owner's manual off the web site.  The PDF didn't come up on my Apple so I had to use a windows computer to see it and print it.  I am listening to Theloneus  Monk on the LCD2 headphones.  I keep turning down the volume and gain on the preamp.  I like that I can hear so much at low volume.  I like the sound but expect it to turn to amazing in a couple weeks or months.  I got the resistors to banana plug into the speaker terminals.  I paid $70 for them and they are built really well, perfect.  Its getting late. I can't stop listening to the music!!


----------



## snapontom

I didn't get the speaker switch.  I am happy with the resistors.  I listen to the headphones on low volume and I think the output to the speakers is only about 1/10 of the output to the headphones when both are hooked up.  I will take pics and post them if I can figure out how.  Later, after the equipment breaks in, I'll see if there's a difference in sound quality between having the resistors plugged in as opposed to speakers when listening to the phones.


----------



## dminches

Where does one find the owner's manual for the Taboo?  I have searched the web site but I can't find it.
   
  Found it!


----------



## Nyvar

Here you go: 
   
Taboo Owner's Manual
   
  It's not obvious, but right below Designer's Notes in the info on the Taboo


----------



## Argo Duck

Does this mean your Taboo arrived?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Once you've had some time, very interested to hear how it compares to the Leben, and how you think it goes with your LCD3...
   
  In other news, my (formerly Mad Dude's) CSP2 apparently arrived in the country six days ago. It has taken customs that long to get a letter to me advising the customs charges 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Edit: @WNBC - if you have a speaker switch, it would be surprising indeed if resistors across the speaker terminals would make any difference when switched to 'phones. In this case, the amp (output tranny) simply doesn't 'see' the terminals, and so won't see the resistors either.
   
  If you _don't_ have the speaker switch, then yes - it makes an electrical difference and possibly an audible difference as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  Quote: 





dminches said:


> Where does one find the owner's manual for the Taboo?  I have searched the web site but I can't find it.
> 
> Found it!


----------



## dminches

Yes.  The Taboo arrived yesterday and I spend a couple hours with it last night.  For the first 30 minutes or so the mid range sounded quite congested but it started to open up.  It is already enjoyable to listen to but I am sure the sound will be changing for quite a while.  I am using a pair of NOS EL84s so they too need to break in a bit.  I will try to run it for most of the day today to accelerate the break in process.
   
  At some point I will try to do a full comparison with the Leben.  Those are going to be very big shoes to fill!


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> In other news, my (formerly Mad Dude's) CSP2 apparently arrived in the country six days ago. It has taken customs that long to get a letter to me advising the customs charges


 
   
  Is your CSP2 in jail?
  What did it do wrong?
   
  Certainly sounds like it, the government wants you to post a bond, no?   LOL!


----------



## Argo Duck

Chris you are so funny 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yes, bond posted. Customs are now writing a letter (!) to advise the postal service it can be released!! Goodness me, the customs and in-country delivery could take as long as the trip from USA to NZ did 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  In more interesting news, I've found my Tung Sol 5Y3GT rectifier pairs well with one or two driver (12AT7) tubes I found too hard in the upper mids before. The sense of "being there" with well-recorded tracks is very noticeable.
   
  Interesting what a difference it makes driving these tubes at different voltages...


----------



## jazzerdave

I just bought a used CSP2+ off of eBay that should be here soon.  I've also got a pair of HD650's on the way, so that'll be the pairing for a while.  This is my first Decware amp.  I've long been a stereo guy, and up until about a year and a half ago, my best headphones were my AKG 240's.  I've now got (already in hand) Q701's, ATH-M50's, Mr Speakers modified T50RP's, and a cheap Chinese OTL amp and a Schiit Asgard.  With the CSP2+ and HD650's on the way, it's probably time for me to slow down a bit, but sometimes I can't help myself.
   
  By the way, I'm not just here to say that I'm about to join the Decware community as I've been using Decware ERR's as my main speakers for the past year.  I've always been more of a stereo guy than a head-fier (until recently).  Instead of Decware amps/preamps, I've got a highly modified Dynaco ST-70 and a Modwright SWL9.0se.  For a 35 wpc tube system, I'm not really giving up anything to my friends who are also into stereo gear (Martin Logan/Conrad Johnson, B&W/Adcom, Vandersteen/VTL/Audio Research, Pass Labs/Wilson).  This humble little stereo even gives me about 90% of the performance of my friend's uber expensive all MBL system.  I actually think that the Decware ERR's make for a good comparison with the MBL 101E mk II speakers.  They're both radial/omni speakers and have similar soundstages and tonal balance.  The main advantages of the MBL's are improved bass impact and the ability to play extremely loud without being fatiguing or grainy (feels like you could listen at 110 dB for days on end).  The MBL's are clearly better, but they're definitely not $70,000 better.
   
  Anyway, there's no real point other than to say, that Steve has made a world class (in my opinion) speaker for a very wallet friendly price (relatively) and that I'm really excited to get my second piece of Decware gear!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> I just bought a used CSP2+ off of eBay that should be here soon.  I've also got a pair of HD650's on the way, so that'll be the pairing for a while.  This is my first Decware amp.


 
   
  My CSP2+ is "On the Bench" at Decware and I already have the HD650's. Looks like we're going to be enjoying the same rig. It will be interesting to hear your impressions once you have the pieces together.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> My CSP2+ is "On the Bench" at Decware and I already have the HD650's. Looks like we're going to be enjoying the same rig. It will be interesting to hear your impressions once you have the pieces together.


 
  I will definitely post some thoughts.  Everything should be in by next weekend.  I also feel like I got everything for a steal ($500 for the amp $250 for the cans plus the amp seller threw in a Decware power cord).


----------



## WNBC

Unfortunately I have to report this theft to the proper authorities 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> I will definitely post some thoughts.  Everything should be in by next weekend.  I also feel like I got everything for a steal ($500 for the amp $250 for the cans plus the amp seller threw in a Decware power cord).


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> I will definitely post some thoughts.  Everything should be in by next weekend.  I also feel like I got everything for a steal ($500 for the amp $250 for the cans plus the amp seller threw in a Decware power cord).


 
  I am going garage saleing with you! That power cord is $179 all by itself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....
   
  Good job on the bargain hunting.


----------



## jazzerdave

wnbc said:


> Unfortunately I have to report this theft to the proper authorities


 
   
  Yeah.  I had made up my mind to not get any more gear until RMAF/CanJam.  Then I saw the CSP2+ and the HD650's just sitting there begging me to take them.  How was I supposed to resist?


----------



## Audio Addict

Anyone put in their order for the new statement monoblocs? I am definitely going to their annaul October Zenfest to hear them if a pair is available.


----------



## longbowbbs

They look amazing! I can't make it this year, but I hope to get there and take a tour anyway this fall. Cool to see these new beauties!


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I am going garage saleing with you! That power cord is $179 all by itself
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I do seem to have a certain knack.  I got my ERR's used for half of retail.  I've also got a ton of tubes hoarded that I got on the cheap over the years.  The funny thing is compared to my dad, I'm the sucker who pays way too much for everything.


----------



## jazzerdave

Just thought I'd let everyone know that I just saw a CSP2+ go up on eBay.  It's at $1 with a reserve on it right now, but there's a buy-it-now for $850.  It's not quite the steal I found for myself, but it has the oiled walnut "contemporary" base and looks to be in great condition.  With the wait times and at least one extra option on this amp, it's probably still a good deal at the asking price.  There's also an SE84C+ power amp packaged with the 944 speakers on eBay as well.
   
  Anyway, it seems like someone from this thread might enjoy the CSP2+ to add on top of their Taboo.  I'll let everyone know if I find something like this again.


----------



## snapontom

I have the CSP2+ TABOO combination.  Totally black background.  My Taboo has the vcaps and sometimes after warming up really well, I get a glimpse of what they can do.  I have about 50 hours on em now.  I just changed the rectifier tubes to the something something GT's which the amps were designed for, and they opened up the detail.  I like the visual effect with the smaller GT tube too.  I would highly recommend the CSP2+ for anyone with a Taboo.  The volume control is smooth, and I like the input and output gain controls. 5y3GT rectifiers, Sylvania USA, $30 each.


----------



## longbowbbs

snapontom, any pictures of the happy couple?


----------



## jazzerdave

My CSP2+ arrived yesterday.  I didn't get to do enough listening to give a full impression, but I enjoyed it.  I'm ready to get my HD650's in and then start my usual tube-rolling voyage.  I'll also eventually get around to posting a picture or two.


----------



## WNBC

Which headphones are you using?
   
  Other owners with the CSP2 + Taboo + HE-500 find that the CSP2 pre-amp delivers more punch to the HE-500 than just the Taboo alone?  I can drive the HE-500 fairly loud but for some recordings the levels are lower and the Taboo would benefit from a pre-amp.
   
  Does anyone use a non-Decware pre-amp with the Taboo?  Blasphemy I'm sure.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





snapontom said:


> I have the CSP2+ TABOO combination.  Totally black background.  My Taboo has the vcaps and sometimes after warming up really well, I get a glimpse of what they can do.  I have about 50 hours on em now.  I just changed the rectifier tubes to the something something GT's which the amps were designed for, and they opened up the detail.  I like the visual effect with the smaller GT tube too.  I would highly recommend the CSP2+ for anyone with a Taboo.  The volume control is smooth, and I like the input and output gain controls. 5y3GT rectifiers, Sylvania USA, $30 each.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> My CSP2+ arrived yesterday.  I didn't get to do enough listening to give a full impression, but I enjoyed it.  I'm ready to get my HD650's in and then start my usual tube-rolling voyage.  I'll also eventually get around to posting a picture or two.


 
  Congratulations Jazzerdave!! Mine is right behind you.
   
  BTW, Pictures, or it didn't happen


----------



## Argo Duck

Great to hear these new reports guys.
   
  A CSP2+/Taboo update from yesterday: inserted an RCA 6DJ8 into the driver position of the CSP2. Other tubes on the C remain stock.
   
  Unfortunately the Beyer T1 reverted back toward boring; balanced but much less dynamic. With the stock 6N1P or either of two 6922s I tried so far the T1 is anything but boring.
   
  OTOH, this is the best combination with Taboo (Tung Sol rectifier, stock power tubes, Brimar 12AT7 driver)/LCD2 so far. Seem to be almost back to the transparency and immediacy recently achieved with Taboo alone (with the tubes above), with added punch and possibly even speed from the CSP2.
   
*WNBC - did you audition those Orcas as you mentioned you might?*


----------



## jazzerdave

Just for you longbowbbs -
   
  The CSP2+ with my AKG Q701's:
   

   
   
  The new rig next to my heavily modified ST-70:


----------



## WNBC

Top of my list of things to do early October.  Been out of state for all of September and they had limited hours for auditioning at the end of August.  They said I can bring the Taboo to their site so I can hear if their speakers are exactly what I want.  
   
  Quote: 





argo duck said:


> *WNBC - did you audition those Orcas as you mentioned you might?*


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> Just for you longbowbbs -


 
   
  You Sir are too kind!  Very nice....Now I am really fired up for delivery!


----------



## Argo Duck

Thanks WNBC. Look forward to your findings...
   
  I took a punt on the Joey Roth Ceramics for my office/study (which is where the headphone rig lives) because I thought their conical shape and unusual material might reduce coloration. And indeed, they probably do - they have clear, detailed upper mids. Unfortunately the rest of the midrange is lean.
   
  Works well with some material but with other material can be


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Does anyone use a non-Decware pre-amp with the Taboo?  Blasphemy I'm sure.


 
   
  I use a Decware CSP2+ pre-amp with a non Decware power amp.
   
  Does that count for Blasphemy too?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> I use a Decware CSP2+ pre-amp with a non Decware power amp.
> 
> Does that count for Blasphemy too?


 
  That would be showing the love to the little people!


----------



## WNBC

Nah, one Decware pre-amp or amp is a blessing, having both is gluttony  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'm curious as to what other people are using as a preamp though to their Taboo.  Any issues with having too powerful of a preamp?  Or some finding good preamp options in the vintage realm?  SS vs tube pre-amp?  
   
   
   
  Quote: 





lord soth said:


> I use a Decware CSP2+ pre-amp with a non Decware power amp.
> 
> Does that count for Blasphemy too?


----------



## Argo Duck

Well, I mentioned once before I tried my HFA 'Silver' tube preamp with Taboo. Maximum output "30 Volts RMS at clipping" is comparable to the CSP2's 36V (RMS or peak?), which seems like a healthy output power to me!
   
  The combination did not sound good - very flabby and unfocused.
   
  This was early days though. I briefly tried again a month or two ago. I guess the Taboo - its VCAPs burnt in - was much more 'ready': it did a much better job driving my (5 driver, 4-way) speakers this time. The bass was round (not nearly as tight as with the Plinius) and there was noticeable warmth, but altogether it was engagingly musical.
   
  Although I think more efficient, single-driver speakers are probably the Taboo's forté, I could definitely live with this for quiet evening listening sessions.
   
  I don't think I tried the LCD2s or - if I did - there was no 'magic'.
   
  Now I have the CSP2 I will try swapping them round sometime in October and report back.
 HFA (Hi Fidelity Audio) was a New Zealand company with a small client base. It specialized in 'high-end' tube gear. I bought my preamp in 1992, and still use it in front of a big Plinius power amp. It is highly neutral, fast, detailed and resolving.
   
Peter Thomson, the designer, used to drive up and down New Zealand installing (free) upgrades for all his owners every time he thought of a better design. Needless to say this business model was not successful, although keeping in contact with clients and getting constant feedback must have been great informal R & D.
   
In many ways Steve Deckert reminds me of Peter, except Steve obviously has a successful business model.
   
   
I was lucky that I bought mine when it was a mature, evolved product.


----------



## longbowbbs

MY CSP2+ is awaiting the Wooden base for completion!


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Great longbow - not long now


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> MY CSP2+ is awaiting the Wooden base for completion!


 
   
  At the rate I'm going, you'll probably get to 5 hours of listening time on your CSP2+/HD650 combo quicker than I will.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> At the rate I'm going, you'll probably get to 5 hours of listening time on your CSP2+/HD650 combo quicker than I will.


 
  I do have to get it here first!.... I ordered it in July!


----------



## WNBC

Thanks for the insight.  I think it would be fun to try some non-CSP2+ combinations with the Taboo, plus there really is no choice with the 3-4 month wait anyway.  I would definitely make sure the preamp has equivalent voltage to the CSP2.  Could be some interesting offerings like Dynaco and Dared tube preamps that I find on Craigslist.  
   
  Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Well, I mentioned once before I tried my HFA 'Silver' tube preamp with Taboo. Maximum output "30 Volts RMS at clipping" is comparable to the CSP2's 36V (RMS or peak?), which seems like a healthy output power to me!
> 
> The combination did not sound good - very flabby and unfocused.
> 
> ...


----------



## dminches

I don't think the wait is that long now.  I think it is closer to 10 weeks.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I don't think the wait is that long now.  I think it is closer to 10 weeks.


 
  That is about right....


----------



## Audio Addict

I am surprised by another new product from Decware, the SE84CKC. Who has already put in their order?

Anyone going to this year's ZenFest coming up in a week or so?


----------



## longbowbbs

It is the latest iteration of their original amp. Looks like another winner.


----------



## ericfarrell85

Just sprung for a CSP2+. Was wondering at what output levels do you guys drive your Taboo's? Even after using my Zana Deux as preamp, I do not find the Taboo to be lacking in any way on its own (using LCD's). The differences, if there were any, were subtle and would require an intensity of focus to notice. I'm hoping the CSP2 does provide a SQ gain. I also went overboard and hooked up the Zana to my Beta 22 > HD650. The differences were very noticeable. For the first time I felt the HD650 was overamped, and prefer the Zana on its own. Shockingly though, the HD650's were nearly Grado fast in this setup, which I suppose is a testament to its capable drivers.


----------



## longbowbbs

The Taboo is promoted by Decware as a Planer amp. I cancelled my Taboo order for now since I am very much enjoying the HD650's and the CSP2+ should be a great paring.
   
  Everything I have read about a CSP2+/Taboo combo would be a great planer HP combo.


----------



## snapontom

I have my TABOO output at 100%, the  volume knob is turned  up all the way.  I control the volume and gain with the CSP2+.  I have roughly 70 hours on the vcaps in the TABOO and I am already very happy with the output to my LCD2 headphones.  I listen at low volume.


----------



## ericfarrell85

How about the variable lineout of the CSP2+? All the way up?


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





snapontom said:


> I have my TABOO output at 100%, the  volume knob is turned  up all the way.  I control the volume and gain with the CSP2+.  I have roughly 70 hours on the vcaps in the TABOO and I am already very happy with the output to my LCD2 headphones.  I listen at low volume.


 
   
  Why don't you use the fixed volume input on the Taboo so you don't have to go through the signal path that includes the volume control?


----------



## tink97

Hey everyone,
  I wanted post impressions on some small desktop speakers from decware, Trapeziums.  I have had them now for a little over a month or so and these are wonderful little speakers.  They are really nice size for the computer and also the sound is great imo. lol
   
  I never feel like the bass is bloated even with the setup below being so close to the wall and the mids are just wonderful, especially vocals. The treble is smooth with giving me any listener fatigue.  I live in an apartment so I never go very loud with them but for early mornings and late evenings when things are quieter I can hear how they bring out the music so effortless and and natural more.  These speakers give off a bigger sound than their size dictates and thats running them with my Mini Torii.

   
  Enjoy everyone and grats to all who have been getting products from this wonderful company,  Again just want to mention I have no affiliation with Decware other than buying their stuff.

 Tink97


----------



## snapontom

The variable line out on the CSP2+ you refer to is what I refer to as the 2 output gain controls.  There are gain controls for the inputs too.  I have turned the gain down as the amps have been breaking in.  I sometimes tweek the input and output gain with the volume control of the CSP2+ to get a more appealing sound for me personally.  My TABOO is always turned up full.


----------



## snapontom

Fixed volume input on the TABOO?  Can you help me understand what that is?  dminches.


----------



## jazzerdave

I've attached a pdf of the Taboo owner's manual.  It's available on the Decware website, but it can be kinda hard to find (the link is small and in gray text).  On page 6 there's a diagram which labels the direct (non-variable) input.  That will bypass the Taboo's volume control.


----------



## jazzerdave

The inputs closer to the power chord are fixed.


----------



## Audio Addict

Don't forget all day today is Zenfest at Decware.  If you can't make it, they are streaming the music room live.
   
http://www.decware.com/newsite/homepage.html


----------



## longbowbbs

I have been enjoying the show...The HD audio feed it amazing and on the HD650's I keep turning around thinking someone has walked into my office!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I wish they had some way to label the equipment and to see the gear on the right side of the room with the Torii...


----------



## Audio Addict

audio addict said:


> Don't forget all day today is Zenfest at Decware.  If you can't make it, they are streaming the music room live.
> 
> http://www.decware.com/newsite/homepage.html




The new monoblocs sound very good here in person.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ I just bet those monoblocs do sound good!
   
  Were I not already completely happy with my power amp, I'd be seriously tempted.
   
  Just out of curiousity, what kinds of DACs are we Decware owners using with our gear? Does choice of DAC figure large in the final sound, or *do we not care that much* because these amps give so many tube-rolling options?
   
  Interested in others' thoughts and experiences...
   
  (I'm asking because I can't decide whether to go for some sort of 'top-performing' DAC and whether it would really make enough difference to matter. Both my Stagedac and Eastern Electric seem good enough it would need either _serious_ cash or _serious_ innovation - a la Schiit Gungnir or statement perhaps?? - to make a meaningful difference...)
   
  Btw AA, we expect a full report about Zenfest


----------



## setamp

I just rolled a USAF-596 rectifier into both my CSP2+ and Taboo and I am getting absolutely beautiful sound out of my system.  At first, they were a little lean and brittle but I burned them in around 60 hours and swapped out the Amperex 6Dj8's I was using for some vintage 6N1P's and everything just came alive. 

 Aidee.  I am also using an EE Minimax and really don't feel a need to change.

 I can't believe I'm saying this, but I feel like I should leave my system alone now and just enjoy it.  I'd better lie down until this feeling passes.....................


----------



## longbowbbs

Good question about DAC's Aidee. I have really enjoyed my Dac Magic Plus. I would rather buy a Taboo or a Rachel rather than $1500 on a W4S2 or something like it.


----------



## tink97

Hey Aidee, 
  I use an AVA vision dac  with my mini torii and this week i am getting the anedio d2. has a very nice analog sound with the mini torii thru the trap speakers.
   
  enjoy the music everyone


----------



## Argo Duck

Really appreciate the replies everyone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Yep, my system sounds _so_ good just as it is, it's hard to think why I would need to change anything as major as the DAC. Your feedback so far backs this up.
   
  That said, looking forward to your impressions of the D2 tink!


----------



## Nyvar

I had a W4S Dac 2 and audiophileo2 before I got the CSP2+ & Taboo.  I'm quite content, but nothing to compare it to either.


----------



## snapontom

Its been a while since I looked at the manual and set up my CSP2+ and TABOO.  Yes I have the input to the TABOO connected to  the fixed RCA jacks.  I keep the volume knob on the Taboo turned all the way up, for some reason.  My DAC is the Schitt BITFROST.  It doesn't have a dedicated dac for each channel like their higher end dacs, but hey, I get my music off my iPhone and iPure at this time.  I am watching the DECWARE 2012 ZenFest.  Wish I was there!!  Lemme c, speakers $4800.  Mono amps $11,400.  Phono preamp, TT, cartridge, tonearm, and then albums.  I will always have something to look forward too, or dream of.  BTW I am very happy with the economical tube amps I have now.  Love the sound.


----------



## longbowbbs

I have been watching it too. Maybe next year. it is only 9 hours away....


----------



## Audio Addict

longbowbbs said:


> I have been watching it too. Maybe next year. it is only 9 hours away....:rolleyes:




There are people from all over. I talked with some from MO, IN, OH, KY, PA and FL. 

It is always the first full weekend in October so maybe next year.


----------



## longbowbbs

I will add a Wisconsin contingent..


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





audio addict said:


> There are people from all over. I talked with some from MO, IN, OH, KY, PA and FL.
> It is always the first full weekend in October so maybe next year.


 
  Are you auditioning any Decware to bring home? What Decware are you using now? This new Torii Monos look really sweet.


----------



## Audio Addict

longbowbbs said:


> Are you auditioning any Decware to bring home? What Decware are you using now? This new Torii Monos look really sweet.




I don't have any current equipment but I met Steve before Head-fi even existed when he repaired some speakers. I am less than an hour away and have tried to visit occassionally to see what he has going on. The new monoblocs are very intriquing as they probably are the first production item that could drive my Legacy Audio speakers.


----------



## longbowbbs

60 watts of KT88 should power about anything


----------



## Audio Addict

longbowbbs said:


> 60 watts of KT88 should power about anything



Steve indicated it could also use the new KT120 production for even more power.


----------



## longbowbbs

I would start measuring the living room for a pair...


----------



## ericfarrell85

My CSP2+ is on route and I realized that it has a wooden knob, rather than the gold knob on my Taboo. Anyone have an extra to sell? Trade for a gold?


----------



## jazzerdave

I'll trade my Taboo's gold knob for the wooden one that comes on your CSP2+


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Wood knob is so much nicer. I had thought the same too. I'll trade you my gold knob on my CSP2 too


----------



## dminches

How much could Steve possibly charge for an extra wood knob?


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





dminches said:


> How much could Steve possibly charge for an extra wood knob?


 
   
  I'll be he doesn't charge much at all, but it's an option you have to remember to specify.


----------



## longbowbbs

This is the new Decware special WKCKC (Wooden Knob Christmas Keeps Coming). The knob has a 24 week order time. Greatness requires patience...


----------



## ericfarrell85

Um... so this came as something of a surprise. My CSP2+ just came in and I'm running them with a Sylvania 5U4G and 3 Genalex 6922 Gold Lions. My Taboo is running a Sylvania Black plate EL 34 and Mullard 12AT7. I've always liked my LCD's, but for enjoyment had them behind my HD800, HE6, Omega MK1 and sometimes AD2000 would run ahead on a purely sensationalist level. I never found the LCD's particularly dynamic and the shallow staging was distasteful, but nonetheless they were tonally pleasing, hefty and plenteous sounding with drool-worthy bass.
   
  The CSP2+ has added *ENORMOUSLY* to the LCD's. I was expecting an incremental gain and purchased the CSP2 mostly to drive future T1's. I've not read many comparative accounts of Taboo (alone) vs CSP2 + Taboo. Everything is different. The overall sound is brighter, faster, much more tactile and present and also, and this is most rattling: far, far more dynamic and transparent. I keep having to lower the volume as unexpected bursts of sound threaten my cochlea. I'm beginning to wonder if there wasn't something remiss about my Taboo setup, which is noticeably darker and less resolved (as though the sound was wrapped in cotton - comparatively speaking). Anyone else notice so substantial a change with their CSP2+? In truth I don't know which currently is the more dominant emotion - confusion or satisfaction. 
   
  *On a somewhat related note, I tried my Zana Deux as preamp into the Beta feeding an HD800 and this brought a very noticeable change. I never knew the HD800 could do bass like that! They were also more hulking and ample, which is certainly not an acknowledged HD800 attribute. These changes were not of the same magnitude as the CSP2+ though, quite a ways from it. Perhaps it's a preamp thing, which certainly makes me wonder as to all the potential yet unexplored.


----------



## Argo Duck

Very interesting Eric - and encouraging.
  You seem to have found the sweet spot straight-away with your tube combination 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Have had very little time for serious LCD2 listening since the CSP2+ joined the Taboo last month. Bear this in mind reading the next comment: I've so far  found Taboo's dynamics increased but transparency suffered. Still running the CSP2+ mostly in stock form though; have only experimented with the driver tube to date. I look forward to the evidently large improvements to come. (BTW, as I think I commented in this thread at the time, the T1 is _outrageously_ good with the CSP2).
   
  I'm pretty sure I remember _Frank I_ commenting on the large improvement the CSP2 made to the Taboo/LCD2 combination in his Taboo thread - indeed, this is the post here. He mentions dynamics, focus and sound-stage.


----------



## setamp

The rectifier tube made the biggest difference in my setup.  I rolled USAF 596 rectifiers into both the CSP2+ and Taboo and the soundstage with my LCD2.1's became huge, more transparent while retaining world class bass response.  I am still playing with driver and input tubes to get the right synergy but this Decware/LCD2 trio is a winner.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





setamp said:


> The rectifier tube made the biggest difference in my setup.  I rolled USAF 596 rectifiers into both the CSP2+ and Taboo and the soundstage with my LCD2.1's became huge, more transparent while retaining world class bass response.  I am still playing with driver and input tubes to get the right synergy but this Decware/LCD2 trio is a winner.


 
   
  What were you using before?


----------



## setamp

Quote: 





dminches said:


> What were you using before?


 

 The stock 5U4G's and Mullard CV378


----------



## ericfarrell85

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> I'm pretty sure I remember _Frank I_ commenting on the large improvement the CSP2 made to the Taboo/LCD2 combination in his Taboo thread - indeed, this is the post here. He mentions dynamics, focus and sound-stage.


 
   
  This makes perfect sense Andre. I bought Frank's Taboo and his recommended configuration - Sylvania backplates and Mullard 12AT7 - was what I quickly settled on. I also remember reading that he used a Sylvania 5U4G in his CSP2+ and that he was a big fan of the Genalex 6922, though I'm not sure if these were the CSP2 drivers he used when he had the Taboo. It's comforting to know that with similar, possibly identical setups, our conclusions are also similar. But yeah, transparency, focus and dynamics are the most evident improvements and are readily noticed. Do you have any rectifiers you can swap in your CSP2+?


----------



## longbowbbs

Well the CSP2+ has been updated to "Packed" at Decware.....We are now at 3 months from order date....


----------



## Argo Duck

Hi Eric, oh - this explains your good luck - I didn't realise you bought Frank's Taboo!
   
  I agree completely when you write "It's comforting to know that with similar, possibly identical setups, our conclusions are also similar". As well, it speaks for the quality and build-consistency of these amps.
   
  Yes, I have a pair of Tung Sol 5Y3GTs (NOS).
   
  When I put one in the Taboo a few weeks before the CSP2 arrived, the difference was amazing - transparency, immediacy, 'being there'. This seems to apply with several of the 12AT7 or 12AU7 tubes I have. The only one not to 'work' is the stock JJ.
   
  My fave driver is a Brimar military grade CV4033 I got from tubemonger - late 50s IIRC. Btw, all these changes are with the stock power tubes kept the same - they seem pretty good to me.
   
  I have kept the Taboo configured this way ever since. Might experiment with some NOS 5U4Gs in future for the higher voltage points.
   
  So, anyway, why have I not rolled the 2nd 5Y3GT into the CSP2???
   
  Lack of time and an over-cautious approach I guess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








 I want to be sure I'm in a relaxed, alert state when I start experimenting so I hear exactly what's different. ATM, just too many projects and too much sleep debt!!
   
  Congrats Longbow - surely only days now...


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Congrats Longbow - surely only days now...


 
   
  Thanks AiDee...It was shipped today....Probably arrive just as go out of town on Business Wednesday....


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





ericfarrell85 said:


> This makes perfect sense Andre. I bought Frank's Taboo and his recommended configuration - Sylvania backplates and Mullard 12AT7 - was what I quickly settled on. I also remember reading that he used a Sylvania 5U4G in his CSP2+ and that he was a big fan of the Genalex 6922, though I'm not sure if these were the CSP2 drivers he used when he had the Taboo. It's comforting to know that with similar, possibly identical setups, our conclusions are also similar. But yeah, transparency, focus and dynamics are the most evident improvements and are readily noticed. Do you have any rectifiers you can swap in your CSP2+?


 

 Also working well in the csp2 are the matsusita 6922 and Bugle boy 6dj8. Better bass on the Matsusita and more open sound on the bugle Boys. I use the 5U4G Sylvania my favorite rectifier. i have also use 5y3G and Tungsol 5U4G but I prefer the Sylvania 5U4G. I always preferred the Taboo with the csp2 especially on the LCD2 and always preferred the CSP2 to drive the T1 and its still my reference for my HD800. I couldnt imagine using the taboo without the csp2. I was the one who approached Steve to build the headphone stage in the Taboo and Eric has the first one ever built by Decware. I do not use high efficiency speakers nor do I own any planars anymore so the Taboo became redundant for me and I am glad you enjoying the amp. I still love the genelex 6922 tubes and they are battleship tough and last . I am giving them a break as I am rolling tubes again but they still sound great.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





ericfarrell85 said:


> This makes perfect sense Andre. I bought Frank's Taboo and his recommended configuration - Sylvania backplates and Mullard 12AT7 - was what I quickly settled on. I also remember reading that he used a Sylvania 5U4G in his CSP2+ and that he was a big fan of the Genalex 6922, though I'm not sure if these were the CSP2 drivers he used when he had the Taboo. It's comforting to know that with similar, possibly identical setups, our conclusions are also similar. But yeah, transparency, focus and dynamics are the most evident improvements and are readily noticed. Do you have any rectifiers you can swap in your CSP2+?


 
   Did you buy high efficiency speakers yet? The Decware speakers look nice. I just dont have a dedicated room anymore.


----------



## ericfarrell85

frank i said:


> Did you buy high efficiency speakers yet? The Decware speakers look nice. I just dont have a dedicated room anymore.




Not yet, still a bit gun shy when it comes to speakers. Frank when you had your Taboo which drivers were you using in the CSP2?


----------



## longbowbbs

Frank I, just to be clear, those 6922's are the Golden Lions?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





ericfarrell85 said:


> Not yet, still a bit gun shy when it comes to speakers. Frank when you had your Taboo which drivers were you using in the CSP2?


 

 the genelex6922 in all three slots


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Frank I, just to be clear, those 6922's are the Golden Lions?


 
  Correct but I have matsusita 6922 in there right now


----------



## setamp

Has anyone compared 12BH7's to 12AT7's in their Taboo?  I tried a lot of very good 12AU7's but never found one I liked.  I tried an RCA black plate 12BH7 today and liked it a lot.  It will probably sound better with a few more hours on it.  I know a few have had good success with the Mullard or Brimar 12AT7's.  I am curious as to how they compare.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





setamp said:


> Has anyone compared 12BH7's to 12AT7's in their Taboo?  I tried a lot of very good 12AU7's but never found one I liked.  I tried an RCA black plate 12BH7 today and liked it a lot.  It will probably sound better with a few more hours on it.  I know a few have had good success with the Mullard or Brimar 12AT7's.  I am curious as to how they compare.


 

 I did and my favorite tube by far was the Mullard 12AT7 I tried RCA and GE 12BH7 while nice enough not a Mullard 12 AT7


----------



## setamp

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I did and my favorite tube by far was the Mullard 12AT7 I tried RCA and GE 12BH7 while nice enough not a Mullard 12 AT7


 

 Thank you.


----------



## setamp

Frank, is this the 12AT7 that works best for you?

 http://tubedepot.com/nos-12at7-mullard.html


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





setamp said:


> Frank, is this the 12AT7 that works best for you?
> 
> http://tubedepot.com/nos-12at7-mullard.html


 
  thats the one Kevine Deal is a better vendor than tubedepot. Deal is upscale audio and he has terrific supply of them same price but they are brand new


----------



## ericfarrell85

A week later and still I'm enamored with the LCD's via the CSP2/Taboo. There is a presence to the sound, an immediacy, with increased clarity/defined edges. This was missing with the Taboo alone. I didn't feel near enough to the music and the LCD hung back in my queue of headphones. The CSP2+ has brought a magnification to the music that is difficult to describe, but easy to emotionally revel in. I still believe the LCD's rock best to indie stuff: Silver Jews, Wolf Parade, Sufjan Stevens, The National, PJ Harvey - but I could have used AD2000's or RS1's with the same music almost interchangeably. It's a little different now and I'm growing attached to this can, where previous I felt it was an underperformer in my stable.


----------



## mqueen

Does anyone know if Decware is on vacation or something this week?  I have been trying to contact them about warranty work on my Mini Torri but they have not responded.  I called and emailed and have not heard anything for a week.  Thanks


----------



## tink97

Hello Mqueen
   
  I actually just called this afternoon and got a hold of Steve with decware, I did try though like 3 times throughout the day,.  They are probably just very busy.
  Tink97


----------



## WNBC

Finally got around to buying some efficient speakers for the Taboo.  I visited the Blumenstein Audio location in West Seattle.  I got to hear their Orca full range and sub speakers on their reference tube amp as well as on a pair of Bottlehead monoblocks .  Simply amazing.  Detailed, excellent clarity, natural tone, holographic and fantastic imaging.  If you live in Washington state you should look them up and visit their site.  The owners are welcoming and for those of us new to the speaker world such as myself it was great to tap into their knowledge about set-ups/positioning/tubes.        
   
  Will post pics this weekend.  The natural color Orca matches well with the maple Taboo.  Waiting on my speaker cables to come in and I'll report back on how the Taboo sounds with the Orcas.  If it is on par or above what I heard with the Bottlehead amp I'll be a happy camper.  The dangerous side of visiting audiophile makers is now I want to try a DIY preamp for the Taboo and I got to hear Emission Labs tubes. 
   
http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/


----------



## longbowbbs

WNBC, what a great site. I had not heard of the Orca's and now I have to give them some serious thought!


----------



## Argo Duck

At last...have been ultra curious about these speakers - thanks WNBC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I gave up on the Joey Roth Ceramic speakers. Nice concept and good looking but they just don't work with a lot of material. Even a subwoofer didn't help. Tend to sibilance, get confused with complex music, and some instruments sound unnatural.
   
  Look forward to hearing how they the Orca sound with Taboo


----------



## WNBC

Just a quick report and iPhone pics after a couple days of listening to the Blumensteins.  
   
  Color me impressed.  The Orcas are detailed and display a pleasant/natural tone.  No harshness to the top-end of these speakers.  Going to play around with different tube configurations as well.  I'm very happy with this purchase even this early in the break-in process.  The Orcas have my full endorsement as a Taboo owner.  My original intention was to get the Taboo for headphones but I'm loving it as a speaker amp as well.      
   
  I may add their sub down the road but not necessary right now.  
   
  The maker of this speaker comes from a background of headphones and those of you out there that enjoy headphones will have no problem adjusting to these speakers.  Toe-in configuration and sitting in front of the speakers several feet away gives you a great headphone-like experience with the speakers providing a larger soundstage and better imaging.  For me, these speakers provide enough of what I want for low-level listening.  For those of you who like higher volumes I'm sure the Orcas won't disappoint in filling the room.  I'm still new to the speaker world so I'll report back when I've learned more.....


----------



## longbowbbs

Very nice WNBC....You'll have to fill us in on their break in results.


----------



## Argo Duck

Great info WNBC. These seem promising.
   
  Following the disappointment of the Roth ceramics I flipped back to the KEF KIT satellites. As I've found before they are a good match with Taboo, despite being only 85dB efficient. Their one fault is restrained highs - they make the LCD2 sound positively bright!
   
  I too look forward to your break-in results


----------



## setamp

Question for Taboo owners.  I am in the process of locating a buzz / hum in my system and just realized the volume control works the same on the fixed and the variable inputs.  Is this normal?  I though the fixed in's bypassed the volume control.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





setamp said:


> Question for Taboo owners.  I am in the process of locating a buzz / hum in my system and just realized the volume control works the same on the fixed and the variable inputs.  Is this normal?  I though the fixed in's bypassed the volume control.


 
   
  I would think the the fixed inputs would bypass the volume control.  I haven't tried that on my Taboo.


----------



## snapontom

I pulled the tubes out of a Hammond Organ.  They are hot now and playing so I can't get the numbers off em.  The rectifier is a GT, maybe a 5ru4?  It says made in Great Britian.  Man, that tube is nice.  Then I put in the EL34s?  Made in Germany.  Even better sound.  The Taboo has all Hammond tubes.  The Hammond GT rectifiers are in the CSP2+ and the Taboo too.  Sorry I can't be more specific now, all I want to say is the old Hammond tubes have made me very happy.  More detail, the soundstage is right at the Heresy speakers.  On some tracks it seems to float just above the speakers.  An audiophile may scoff at Hammond being on a tube, these are the best tubes I have had in my amp so far.


----------



## Hi-Five

Quote: 





setamp said:


> Question for Taboo owners.  I am in the process of locating a buzz / hum in my system and just realized the volume control works the same on the fixed and the variable inputs.  Is this normal?  I though the fixed in's bypassed the volume control.


 
   
  I noticed the same on mine (has planar headphone mod) and I assumed it was related to having the headphone jack installed.  Otherwise kind of a bummer as I use a CSP+ for volume control and would prefer to skip an extra volume pot.


----------



## Argo Duck

*setamp*, on my Taboo the vol control works on both inputs, but not quite the same.
   
   
*On fixed, all the way down is off. Then, just a slight turn is (say) 80-90% on. Turning all the way produces a very gradual increase up to 100%*
   
  (From the little electronics I did in my teens, I think they 'bypass' the vol control by placing a low-value resistor in parallel with the pot on the fixed input. 
  But I could be well wide of the mark...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## snapontom

In my Taboo thx to the hammond organ amp is a 12ax7a.  Two 6BQ5 EL 84 tubes and the wonderful GT rectifier.  Wow!  That was an upgrade.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





snapontom said:


> In my Taboo thx to the hammond organ amp is a 12ax7a.  Two 6BQ5 EL 84 tubes and the wonderful GT rectifier.  Wow!  That was an upgrade.


 
   
  Pics please.....


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





mqueen said:


> Does anyone know if Decware is on vacation or something this week?  I have been trying to contact them about warranty work on my Mini Torri but they have not responded.  I called and emailed and have not heard anything for a week.  Thanks


 
  Hi Mcqueen,
   
  Decware is normally very busy with order fufillment.
   
  To "get hold" of someone over there, it is best to contact Sarah Waters 1st.
   
  [size=large]Sarah Waters
 Decware Customer Service[/size]

 [size=larger][size=large]309 822 5255 [/size][/size]

 [size=smaller][size=x-small]Sarah@Decware.com[/size][/size]


----------



## longbowbbs

X2
   
  Sarah is THE way to get information or action happening. You want to talk to Steve, call Sarah...(They are both really nice too!)


----------



## snapontom




----------



## ManAtWork

Quote: 





mqueen said:


> Does anyone know if Decware is on vacation or something this week?  I have been trying to contact them about warranty work on my Mini Torri but they have not responded.  I called and emailed and have not heard anything for a week.  Thanks


 
   
  I think they were not available when the time you contact them. I also placed an order on Oct 18 and had their confirmation on Oct 23. I think it is back to normal now.


----------



## jazzerdave

snapontom said:


>




Your Decware/ST-70 combo is very similar to what I'm rolling out there. Though to be fair, my ST-70 doesn't really have much in common with the original outside of the output transformers.


----------



## snapontom

Sorry for the confusion.  That's a Bob Latino mod SV-120.  Nice amp.  Before I got the DECWARE I ran the iPhone, iPure, BITFROST directly into it with excellent results.


----------



## jazzerdave

snapontom said:


> Sorry for the confusion.  That's a Bob Latino mod SV-120.  Nice amp.  Before I got the DECWARE I ran the iPhone, iPure, BITFROST directly into it with excellent results.




My ST-70 uses a Wellborne Labs driver board and a Curcio Bias Control System along with various other mods. They're fun amps. I dig the setup snapontom.


----------



## Frimpy

Just check Decware my amplifier is finally in the packed status....I'm not excited am I. Brand new MODEL SE34I.5.  ​


----------



## longbowbbs

Your patience is soon to be rewarded Frimpy!  Congrats....Remember, pictures are required!


----------



## Frimpy

I will post pic's for sure. Thanks for the reminder.
   
  If anyone is interested I'll be selling my Mapletree 2A Se line preamplifier (with many extra tubes) shortly after the Decware amp arrives. Will have to do a shootout 1st between the Mapletree and my Harman Kardon Citation 19 and the Decware  SE34I.  
  The Mapletree pre has been a wonderful pre, I've owned it 2 years without any problems. I wanted a better power amp and also wanted less cabling so I bought the Decware integrated.
   
  Frimpy


----------



## longbowbbs

Which version of the SE34I did you order?


----------



## Frimpy

I ordered the SE34I CONFIGURATION ​5​ - MULTIPLE SOURCES​, Four pair of input jacks with rotary selector and two volume controls.​   
  Would like to upgrade PHONO STAGE from Cambridge 551P any ideas. Can't financially do a Decware phono pre at this time, $500 or under any ideas.
  Audio decisions can be tough, get less expensive phono pre now or wait and save for a Decware phono pre ???
  Using Sansui SR626 turntable presently with Klipsch Quartets.  Have Decware DNA speakers on order, another month or so before I see them.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





frimpy said:


> I ordered the SE34I CONFIGURATION ​5​ - MULTIPLE SOURCES​, Four pair of input jacks with rotary selector and two volume controls.​
> Would like to upgrade PHONO STAGE from Cambridge 551P any ideas. Can't financially do a Decware phono pre at this time, $500 or under any ideas.
> Audio decisions can be tough, get less expensive phono pre now or wait and save for a Decware phono pre ???
> Using Sansui SR626 turntable presently with Klipsch Quartets.  Have Decware DNA speakers on order, another month or so before I see them.


 
   
  I'd probably suggest waiting on the phono stage upgrade.  There are some good options at the $500 price point, but they're not that far ahead of your 551P. 
   
  If you can stretch just a tiny bit, the Jolida JD9A is a pretty good phono stage at $569.  The JD9 has switching on the back for properly loading and impedance matching.  There's also upgrades available from a few people including Underwood hifi (you could buy it now then send it off for upgrades later and have a very good phono stage).
   
  Really the best thing to do would be to listen to your new amp for a few weeks with your current gear.  Compare to the sound from your old gear and try to figure out what really needs to change.  Basically, whatever you do, wait.


----------



## longbowbbs

Good advice from jazzerdave.....Save for another couple of months and get the piece you will enjoy for years!


----------



## HPDJ

All good suggestions...waiting a bit, if you can couldn't hurt..
   
  In my case, I had an vintage turntable and needed a phono pre that would help me enjoy it and help me decide if I needed to invest in a better turntable set-up at some point...all while not holding back my turntables capabilities. I hadn't explored LP's yet up until that point..
   
  SO, I ended up getting the Musical Surroundings Phenomena II ($600)....its flexible just like Jazzerdave described the Jolida amp as...you can adjust the loading and impedence on the back so you have more options on what kind of cartridge you can use...it's very flexible...It's gotten some great reviews and should last me a while. 

 I enjoy it in my system, it's pretty transparent...I have a Denon 103 Cart and a my turntable is a vintage Denon as well. If I end up getting a battery power source for the phono amp, then I should hear some improvements should I decide to go this route


----------



## longbowbbs

Denon 103 is a classic good value cartridge. I had a Denon TT years ago and I wish I had kept it.


----------



## Frimpy

Original from Frimpy....   "Would like to upgrade PHONO STAGE from Cambridge 551P any ideas. Can't financially do a Decware phono pre at this time, $500 or under any ideas.
                                           Audio decisions can be tough, get less expensive phono pre now or wait and save for a Decware phono pre ???"
   
  I asked a question a few days ago on this thread and I want to thank all of you that responded with advise. I will be taking your advise and wait.
   
   
  What a great group of folks on this thread I thank you again.
  Frimpy


----------



## longbowbbs

We all love audio and we all know you will be happier saving for a Decware piece!


----------



## Hi-Five

FWIW, the Decware ZP3 is worth every penny IMO.
   
  Not any loading options, but it sounds great to my ears!


----------



## snapontom

Installed the USAF 596 rectifier tube in my CSP2+.  Larger soundstage, more realistic sounding classical guitars, better separation, made my whole system better.  I run the CSP2+ into a TABOO.  I wonder if having another 596 tube installed in the TABOO would make near as much difference.  The plates in the 596 are twice as long as the rectifier I was using.


----------



## setamp

Yes.  The 596 works equally well in the Taboo.  It's the best rectifier I have tried.


----------



## WNBC

Who is a good source of these USAF596 rectifiers?  I just started using an Emission Labs 5U4G.  Anybody tried the Psvane EL84's or 12AT7 tubes in their Taboo?


----------



## dminches

Check out the Woo Audio Owners Unite Thread.  Someone there is selling some 596s.  You will also need to get an adapter.


----------



## Frimpy

Received brand new Decware SE34i.5 yesterday, oh my what a day. Still excited about toys at 58 years old.
  Pics of how well it was packed. Oh my gosh packed better than an infant in a winter blizzard.
   


>


----------



## Frimpy

My new Decware SE34i.5 unpacked.  Had it running for a while last night and most of the day today. Was running a Mapletree 2A SE preamp and a HK Citation 19 power amp. (100w. RMS ). Pushing my Klipsch Quartets with 6 watts does sound just fine thru my cd player, there is enough oomph even for rock n roll. Now the turntable is a different story. My present phono stage is a cambridge 551p with only 39db of gain....not really enough for me.  Spoke with Steve at Decware for about an hour today ( great guy easy to talk and discuss problems and options with. (No one else I know in this business is as honest,sincere and will help guide you in a direction for your needs not his.)
  Anyway we (Steve and I ) decided to go ahead with my DNA speakers, I was worried about there being enough oomph to power them since they are 89db and my klipsch's are 97 db...
  Steve advised that the Decware Z3 phono stage with resolve this issue.....I've also order some 6n2p tubes from Russia should help me with my phono gain issue.
   
  Sorry if my previous pics took up to much room, wanted to show how well this amp was packed.
  Sound.wise...its all its said to be.  More to follow as it burns in.


----------



## Hi-Five

Congrats Frimpy, that really is a sweet looking amp.  I've been trying to find an excuse to get one for my bedroom...
   
  Enjoy!


----------



## longbowbbs

Frimpy it looks awesome! Congrats and enjoy!


----------



## Lord Soth

Congrats Frimpy!

Christmas has come early for you .


----------



## snapontom

I run old Hammond Organ EL84s in my TABOO and I went with a 12AU7 after comparing it to the 12AT7 and the 12AT7A.  There seems to be more bite with the AT.  That new amp you got is sweet.  Piano recordings sound more realistic with the 596 rectifier.


----------



## longbowbbs

What type of an adapter would you use to put the 596 in a Taboo?


----------



## dminches

596 > 5U4G
   
  Woo audio makes them.


----------



## longbowbbs

Thanks!


----------



## SemiAudiophile

2359glenn makes the adapters as well. great guy to deal with.
   
  Weird, i tried both 596 tubes in both the CSP2 and Taboo but thought the depth was way too much. everything sounded too distant. I like the configuration of Sophia on the CSP2 and 596 on Taboo better. More intimate.


----------



## longbowbbs

Which Sophia? Does it also require an adapter?  (&^#^&@%&&.....tube rolling.....&*^&^&&)


----------



## jazzerdave

longbowbbs said:


> Which Sophia? Does it also require an adapter?  (&^#^&@%&&.....tube rolling.....&*^&^&&)




The only compatible Sophia tube is their mesh-plate 274B which would not require an adaptor.

http://www.sophiaelectric.com/

I've got an Emission Labs 5U4G, Mullard 5U4G, and a pair of Bendix 6106 that I've been using. I can't decide. The EML is probably my favorite.


----------



## longbowbbs

I also have the GE 5R4GY and the Jan Sylvania 5Y3G. I am enjoying each of them, but so far I keep coming back to the Jan Sylvania 5U4G.


----------



## WNBC

I contacted EML when I was ready to buy a tube and they suggested 5U4G over the 274B for the Taboo.  Was it mainly because of the Taboo design and/or life expectancy of the 274B?  I have the Bendix as well but haven't gotten around to using it now that the EML is in place.
   
  I recently added a SS preamp to the Taboo.  A used Holfi Pre 8.  My first non-integrated preamp.  A CSP would be ideal but not many of those show up.  A preamp does bring out better dynamics out of the Taboo.  Now I know why people use a preamp.     
   
   
  Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> The only compatible Sophia tube is their mesh-plate 274B which would not require an adaptor.
> http://www.sophiaelectric.com/
> I've got an Emission Labs 5U4G, Mullard 5U4G, and a pair of Bendix 6106 that I've been using. I can't decide. The EML is probably my favorite.


----------



## jazzerdave

wnbc said:


> I contacted EML when I was ready to buy a tube and they suggested 5U4G over the 274B for the Taboo.  Was it mainly because of the Taboo design and/or life expectancy of the 274B?  I have the Bendix as well but haven't gotten around to using it now that the EML is in place.
> 
> I recently added a SS preamp to the Taboo.  A used Holfi Pre 8.  My first non-integrated preamp.  A CSP would be ideal but not many of those show up.  A preamp does bring out better dynamics out of the Taboo.  Now I know why people use a preamp.




Having talked to Steve briefly about this, the EML 274B seems to have some sort of issue with the way the Taboo has been designed (heater current maybe?) but the EML 5U4G is fine. The EML274B will sound fine, but may arc a bit on start up and will have a seriously reduced lifespan (not an issue with their 5U4G). Coincidentally, Steve seems to believe that the Sophia 274B is actually fine and won't experience the same issues. I think it's quite possible that the Sophia mesh plate 274B would have the same issues as the EML, but Sophia also makes a rigid plate 274B that can handle an extra 70mA of current. 

One thing to be aware of: the EML 5U4G is a giant tube. If you're putting your Taboo/CSP2+/whatever in an area where there will be a shelf above it, I'd reconsider the EML - it'll need a good 9-10" just to fit.


----------



## longbowbbs

The mesh Sophia looks interesting, but I would hate to drop $150+ on something that would have short lifespan...


----------



## jazzerdave

longbowbbs said:


> The mesh Sophia looks interesting, but I would hate to drop $150+ on something that would have short lifespan...:eek:




The mesh plate Emission Labs 5U4G is even pricier, but it's been stable in my rig. It's really well made too.


----------



## longbowbbs

What would everyone consider the best Tube eye candy when the lights are out that does not sacrifice sound quality?
   
  (BTW, I am just enjoying the HELL out of the CSP2+ right now with Chris Cornell's latest solo album...The soundstage with the Jan Sylvania 5U4G, Stock 6N1P's and Golden Lion in the driver slot is Phenomenal!)


----------



## setamp

Quote: 





semiaudiophile said:


> 2359glenn makes the adapters as well. great guy to deal with.
> 
> Weird, i tried both 596 tubes in both the CSP2 and Taboo but thought the depth was way too much. everything sounded too distant. I like the configuration of Sophia on the CSP2 and 596 on Taboo better. More intimate.


 

 I actually found the 596 to be too forward with certain input/driver tubes.  In my CSP2+ (in my system) I found the best combination to be the 596 with cryoset super-cryod 6n1p's and a telefunken ecc85. In the Taboo I like the 596 with a pair of sylvania black plate el84's and a sylvania 12bh7 up front.


----------



## snapontom

Ordered another 596.  Hope to get the EML 5U4G for Christmas or my birthday.  There was an instrument playing to the left of my left speaker, odd and illusionaryily delightful.  This arc up of tubes on start up, is this a bad thing?  Not normal?  Do I need to have tubes that don't do this?  Happens with my TABOO.
   STOP ME NOW!!!   I have an old DUAL CS5000 TT coming in to experiment with LPs.  I think I may need a soundstage from decware to up the signal from the TT, but we'll see.  Cartridge is a Shure V15vxmr.  May have the stylii upgraded by Soundsmith.  HEP ME PLEEEZE!!


----------



## longbowbbs

Oh, you thought we are here to hold you back...I am sorry, we are enablers....You need more....


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Quote: 





setamp said:


> I actually found the 596 to be too forward with certain input/driver tubes.  In my CSP2+ (in my system) I found the best combination to be the 596 with cryoset super-cryod 6n1p's and a telefunken ecc85. In the Taboo I like the 596 with a pair of sylvania black plate el84's and a sylvania 12bh7 up front.


 
  True. It probably depends on what other tubes you're using it with. Right now I've got Sylvania EL84 black plates too and Sylvania TMBP Gold on Taboo. 3 JAN 6N1P'S on the CSP2.  I've been liking this configuration so much I haven't felt the need to tube roll. I still haven't bought the Genelex 6N1P? yet for the CSP2. 
   
**note: be careful especially if you have Taboo and CSP2 setup together not to mix up the tubes. I did that once and it freaked me out because no sound was coming out.  luckily the amps are still working fine. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


*


----------



## Argo Duck

^ I have nightmares from time to time I might do the same - could happen too easily. Mental rule - always double check.
   
  Glad yours survived SA!
   
  Am enjoying my current configurations so much I don't feel need to roll either - except to cover a few broad options (e.g. try one of the recitifiers Lord Soth just reviewed on the CSP2 thread, so I cover the 5U4G end as well).


----------



## longbowbbs

The Genalex 6922 is a great driver tube. I prefer it to the stock 6N1P in the CSP2+, but I have the stock 6N1P's in the L/R position. Steve said he enjoys this combo also. So far so good.


----------



## Frimpy

Update on my newly purchased Decware SE34i.5 integrated.  This amplifier has made my Klipsch Quartets sparkle. Blacker background, Classical music has better instrument seperation, I actually enjoy violins now. Better tone to instruments.  Midrange is very very good. I prefer instruments to vocals but this may change.   By the way the amp needs to break in yet.
   
  Today i listened to Michael Jacksons One's CD....I think its well recorded and the 1st time I'v listened to this CD with this amplifier.
  WOW is what I told my wife,  his voice , the instruments, everything was clear, concise and sharp, MUSICAL . These Klipsch quartets came alive... Unsure if my  lingo is audiophile grade but this 58 year old likes this amp. Wait until my Decware DNA speakers arrive...oh ya


----------



## longbowbbs

My CSP2+ has really opened up after 300+ hours on it....I really noticed it this weekend after about 4 hours of high res...The sound stage just opened wide. Give it some time and it will just keep getting better....


----------



## Frimpy

[size=medium]longbowbbs- thanks for the feedback. Only 250 hours to go.[/size]


----------



## WNBC

Seems like the Sylvania EL84 black plates get mentioned a lot.  Do you all have a good source for these?  Primarily Ebay?  
   
  Quote: 





semiaudiophile said:


> True. It probably depends on what other tubes you're using it with. Right now I've got Sylvania EL84 black plates too and Sylvania TMBP Gold on Taboo. 3 JAN 6N1P'S on the CSP2.  I've been liking this configuration so much I haven't felt the need to tube roll. I still haven't bought the Genelex 6N1P? yet for the CSP2.


----------



## longbowbbs

Frumpy, enjoy the ride. Breaking in a new Rachel is not tough duty!


----------



## setamp

I just got a stark reminder as to how system dependent tube choice can be.  I tried another dac in my rig today and had to change out several tubes to make it work.  It is really difficult to recommend tubes when there are so many factors involved.


----------



## longbowbbs

Lots of variables xto be considered. I am very pleased with the DacMagic Plus combined with the CSP2+. What other DAC's are people using around here?


----------



## Argo Duck

Very true *setamp*. With tube amps our individual tastes are optimized and differences enhanced, and so it is really difficult to say that one Taboo (or whatever) can be compared to another Taboo (or whatever).
   
*longbowbbs* I cycle between EE MiniMax (not the plus), Bifrost and (my preference) Meier Stagedac. Two weeks ago I added the Beresford _Bushmaster_, which was released June this year. Apparently there's a history concerning head-fi and Stan Beresford which led to him being permanently blocked. 
   
  I'm not interested in this history. Beresford's DAC is shockingly good for the price. It may be just good, period.
   
  Still early days in my testing, but it's already clear there is an ability to resolve and separate tonal/timbral textures which makes the Bifrost sound 'veiled', not a word I would ever have expected to use with this DAC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  (Btw, mindful of the very point setamp made, I've been testing with one of the Meier SS amps).


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Beresford makes good DACs. I used to own the TC-7520. It's been a while since that name has been mentioned here lol. Don't care for the person, but the DACs are good value for the price. If I remember correctly, he basically modifies other DACs made in China and re-brands them just like what Oritek used to do. 
   
  I like Audio-GD DACs. Using their NFB-10ES sabre and haven't felt the need to upgrade in a while. Clean, analog, and neutral.


----------



## Lord Soth

I'm using the Oppo 95 as my DAC for my CSP2+. FLAC files are played via USB input.
It has the SABRE chip in it.

The audio quality is good enough for me. 
My next upgrade will be when my Oppo player breaks down, maybe 10 years from now?
This player and the remote are built as solid as bricks!


----------



## longbowbbs

I agree with the Oppo build quality. My BD-83 is a tank.

I am considering the Metrum Octave with a Stello U3 for an upgrade to my DM+. Nothing wring with the Cambridge...Just the Head-Fi itch.


----------



## Argo Duck

Head-fi itch indeed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Had been considering the NAD M52 or PWD2 and others just to find out what a 'top' DAC is like. Against this, I found the three DACs I listed above equivalent in detail despite their 3:1 price range, differing only in their presentation and balance of highs and lows. I did not feel things could get honestly better than these DACs and the Decware amps.
   
  The Bushmaster - the cheapest of the now four DACs - put a spanner in this thinking!
   
  I'm trying to figure out whether I'm hearing an honestly better DAC; the result of a rare synergy with the Meier Classic _and_ Taboo (two very different amps at the same time?!); or even a shortcut in the post-filtering which happens to favor the material I've used so far 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  (SA, I found a post in which Stan explained he did and still does design work for an Asian company, and when he started designing his own gear they agreed to manufacture for him. Well, that's his story FWIW 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## WNBC

A BD-83SE showed up on Craigslist for $400.  Think it worth it?  I don't have a high-end blu-ray player and it would be an opportunity to try a quality CD player into the Taboo rather than a CD transport into the DAC-2.
  ......and then there is the BD-105 that just came out.  Could put that $400 into a $1200 audiophile source and blu ray player.  Never ends........
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I agree with the Oppo build quality. My BD-83 is a tank.
> I am considering the Metrum Octave with a Stello U3 for an upgrade to my DM+. Nothing wring with the Cambridge...Just the Head-Fi itch.


----------



## longbowbbs

wnbc said:


> A BD-83SE showed up on Craigslist for $400.  Think it worth it?  I don't have a high-end blu-ray player and it would be an opportunity to try a quality CD player into the Taboo rather than a CD transport into the DAC-2.
> ......and then there is the BD-105 that just came out.  Could put that $400 into a $1200 audiophile source and blu ray player.  Never ends........




Good price for a strong audio unit. It dopes Blu-Ray,DVD, CD, SACD, DVD-Audio and about everything else I have thrown at it. The SE has beefed up audio specs. It should last a long time too.

The 105 is almost like a receiver it has so many sections to it. Do you need a HP amp? How about a DAC? The SE unit will provide the great transport. If you have all the other components then the 105 will simply duplicate what you have for other items. It will do it beautifully, but more money for the privilege.

AiDee, very interesting about the capabilities of those high end DAC's! I have heard the PWD 1, but not the new one. I liked it but at the price I had better! The Bushmaster may be another one like the Octave where the designer hit on a really strong unit that is reasonably priced. Love to see it when that happens!


----------



## WNBC

BD-105 vs DAC-2 hooked up to the Taboo.  Whichever one loses gets demoted to home theater and the winner stays in the 2-channel rig 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Good price for a strong audio unit. It dopes Blu-Ray,DVD, CD, SACD, DVD-Audio and about everything else I have thrown at it. The SE has beefed up audio specs. It should last a long time too.
> The 105 is almost like a receiver it has so many sections to it. Do you need a HP amp? How about a DAC? The SE unit will provide the great transport. If you have all the other components then the 105 will simply duplicate what you have for other items. It will do it beautifully, but more money for the privilege.
> AiDee, very interesting about the capabilities of those high end DAC's! I have heard the PWD 1, but not the new one. I liked it but at the price I had better! The Bushmaster may be another one like the Octave where the designer hit on a really strong unit that is reasonably priced. Love to see it when that happens!


----------



## setamp

AiDee,

 I just received a PWD2 that I will try against my EE Minimax Plus (Burson dual discreet and OPA627 METAL singles).  I will let you know what I find.  I have not been able to find a dac that beats the Minimax Plus in solid state mode since I rolled the opamps - especially the metal can OPA627's.


----------



## longbowbbs

wnbc said:


> BD-105 vs DAC-2 hooked up to the Taboo.  Whichever one loses gets demoted to home theater and the winner stays in the 2-channel rig




Nothing like being #2!  Pretty good second place there....


----------



## WNBC

Out of curiosity, what non-ortho headphones are people using out of the Taboo?  I read that high impedance headphones are best for the CSP but are there low impedance, non-ortho, high watt requirement (low efficiency) headphones out there worth experimenting with in the Taboo?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Out of curiosity, what non-ortho headphones are people using out of the Taboo?  I read that high impedance headphones are best for the CSP but are there low impedance, non-ortho, high watt requirement (low efficiency) headphones out there worth experimenting with in the Taboo?


 
  be careful when using dynamic headphones. The HD800 ans T1 worked well on the Taboo. I also used ot with D7000 but at very low volume setting as it had way too much power and I was always afraid it would blow the D7K but the HD800 and T1 for some reason worked well on the taboo but I still preferred those two on the csp2.


----------



## Argo Duck

setamp,
   
  Looking forward to your report!


----------



## WNBC

Thanks Frank, I probably won't buy any flagship headphones and definitely won't risk it if a pair of landed on my desk for X-mas.  Looking for ideas on some beater headphones that can take the juice and sound good for under $200-300.  Just to get a flavor of offerings on the dynamic side of things and still be able to use the Taboo rather than acquire another amp.


----------



## Lord Soth

I've done things in reverse for my CSP2+.

The 80 ohms Beyer DT1350 sounds much better than the 600 Ohms Beyer DT880 on my CSP2+. By better, I mean that a sonic veil has been lifted along with better micro details etc...

The DT1350 has also received positive response over here.

I'm sure that the DT1350 will sound even better on the Taboo which is meant for low impedance cans.


----------



## snapontom

Unpacked a CS-5000 by DUAL this a.m.   It sports the V15vxmr cartridge by Shure.  I was shopping a phono stage yesterday and found a DECWARE unit on ebay!   Should be here in a week.


----------



## longbowbbs

Nice! That will go well with the rest of the family...


----------



## Audio Addict

This says a lot about the zen amps:
   
http://videos.videopress.com/SiIxdcfD/decwarewomen2_hd.mp4


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Out of curiosity, what non-ortho headphones are people using out of the Taboo?  I read that high impedance headphones are best for the CSP but are there low impedance, non-ortho, high watt requirement (low efficiency) headphones out there worth experimenting with in the Taboo?


 
   
  I used a pair of Grado SR-225i's with the Taboo. Excellent sound!


----------



## WNBC

Thanks for the tip.  I'm tempted to order one today and have it delivered tomorrow via Amazon prime or wait for some holiday sales.
   
  Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> I used a pair of Grado SR-225i's with the Taboo. Excellent sound!


----------



## Argo Duck

^ still enjoying those orcas WNBC?


----------



## WNBC

Definitely.  Clarity, timbre and detail are it's major strengths.  It will take some time to break them in because I do mostly low-volume listening.  I don't have much experience with speakers so it would be great if some you all got a pair too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
   
  The Taboo has no problem driving the speakers well.  I recently added a SS pre-amp and that helped bring out additional energy from the speakers.  Would like to try a Bottlehead or CSP2+ next as a preamp.  I do need to pick up a solid 12AT7/12AU7 to replace the 12AX7 now that I have a preamp in line.  Found a used Era sub that I've thrown into the mix and this 2.1 channel Taboo rig is bad arse.  Would like to get the Blumenstein sub but that might be a while.  Sub rounds out the full-range Orcas very well.  I think most people will want a sub.  Orcas are full range speakers but the weight at the low end may have people wanting a sub.  I suppose that is not too uncommon.  How many passive, efficient bookshelf speakers under $1K have enough low end bass that does not require an additional sub unit?  
   
  Taboo is a gateway amp to more Decware amps!   
   
   
   
  Quote: 





argo duck said:


> ^ still enjoying those orcas WNBC?


----------



## longbowbbs

I went on the Orca site and they look gorgeous! I wish I was near someone to audition a pair.


----------



## Argo Duck

Thanks WNBC very helpful impressions.

The kef satellites I'm using (with taboo & separate sub driven off the csp2) are less efficient than the orcas and sound natural except for distinct lack of top end sparkle and air.

From your impressions I think the orcas have the right attributes. They would be more dynamic too. Almost certain to try them in the next few months...


----------



## Ony38

Someone can tell me more about the synergie between a LCD-2 rev2 and the Decware Zen Taboo?
   
  Thks


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> .........How many passive, efficient bookshelf speakers under $1K have enough low end bass that does not require an additional sub unit?
> 
> ......


 
   
  I happen to use a pair of *Alesis Monitor 1 MK2 Passive *speakers for my main 2 Channel tubed speaker 12W amp and home theatre system.
   
  This pair of <US$200 speakers has enough low end bass for Blu Ray movies or serious Tube Amp use.
  Japanese Ondekoza drums, yup those HUGE drums, have a rippling low end which is gripping and can literally shake one's molars.
   
  Low end sub is not included in my main rig.....
  (and not needed either)


----------



## longbowbbs

Fun article on the birth of Tubes:

http://www.wired.com/thisdayintech/2009/11/1116fleming-thermionic-valve-vacuum-tube/


----------



## HPDJ

WNBC, your question:
   
How many passive, efficient bookshelf speakers under $1K have enough low end bass that does not require an additional sub unit?  
   
My answer:
   
Decware Trapezium Speakers. Definitely worth an audition


----------



## snapontom

I don't know what "passive" is when it comes to speakers. No internal amp?   I have the Klipsch Heresy III bookshelf speakers and I like them with my CSP2+, TABOO combination.  The highs and mids are realistic in my mind.  They seem fast with good attack on snares and cymbals.  I enjoy listening to them.  When I put on the LCD2 headphones they reveal much more depth in bass.  The Heresy speakers go to 56Hz and I bet that is par for bookshelf speakers.  I don't know of a sub unit that would be fast enough to go with them.  In the size room I have I couldn't be happier with my music.    
  I now have the USAF 596 rectifier in both the Taboo and CSP2+.  It just keeps getting better and better.  My TT is here and I purchased a DECWARE phono stage off ebay.  It is an older one with a separate power source.  I am fabricating a record cleaning rig.  Yesterday I found Handel's Messiah and some old Frank Sinatra albums at the thrift store for $1 each.  I am excited to see what the vinyl will reveal.  I was told today that Pandora One, the one you pay for, comes through at 196, whatever that means. Pandora sounds good on my system. The Jazz Essentials channel on Pandora is perfect for my tastes and I come across really well engineered music on the Hawaiian channel, which is under World, along with Zydago.


----------



## tink97

Quote: 





hpdj said:


> WNBC, your question:
> 
> How many passive, efficient bookshelf speakers under $1K have enough low end bass that does not require an additional sub unit?
> 
> ...


 

 +1 for trap speakers.  I have been using them with my mini torri with excellent results,  absolutely love em


----------



## WNBC

My room configuration isn't great for proper speaker placement so the sub is helping me cheat a bit.  The tone and clarity from these Orcas is beyond engaging.  I won't be giving them up any time soon.  Would love to audition the Trapezium as well so that I can compare.  My experience thus far from hearing these single-driver full range speakers is amazement.  Holographic.  Steve has two single-driver speakers.  Now those must be some serious speakers.        
   
  I'm all speaker'd out for now.  I would definitely like to try the Decware speakers down the road......when I go 4.1 channels with a Taboo + pair of Orcas + pair of Torri Monos.......a man can dream.........
   
  Lord, those Aleisis do fit my budget and might give those a try with the Taboo and home theater rig.


----------



## Cante Ista

Hi Everyone; I have been following this thread for a while. I am looking to get a tube amp that can drive speakers and headphones, but I disposable funds have been curtailed with the birth of my daughter this year. I am thus looking for an amp that will give me most bang for the buck. I have an amp that can drive my hd800 but I am also thinking of getting planars some time down the line.
   
  So to get to the point, I have noticed that the mini torii mk ii came out this weekend and while it looks nice, the option for headphone jack was removed. If anyone has information on whether I could still order one, I would appreciate you sharing it. 
   
  I know the taboo is recommended for headphones and speakers but I am concerned about its low input sensitivity. I really don't want to purchase the CSP, especially since I already have headphone amp. 
   
  I am also curious if the Zen Torii mk III could be fitted with a headphone jack. To be honest I have a pair of Polk speakers rated at 90dB so the Zen Torii may e more suitable. I know it is quite more expensive, and it is long-shot for me now, but if I can keep my old speakers (and convince my wife ) , that would limit expenses down the line. 
   
  Thanks for your replies!


----------



## HPDJ

Hi Cante,
   
  I noticed the updated Mini Torii announcement yesterday as well...I have an original MT w/ headphone jack that is getting upgraded with the jupiter caps and the feedback switch. Steve at Decware said he couldn't change the white top to the black one...didn't say anything about changing the aluminum chassis to the steel one...I don't think he can update that as well...but I would guess that the new MT could still get the headphone mod. But it is interesting that it's not included on the new product page...
   
  Of course, calling Decware and talking to Steve is your best bet. I don't know about the Zen Torii MKIII being able to have a headphone out. That's another good question for Steve. I don't recall hearing anyone with that kind of mod on an MKIII..
   
  My MT sounded great with my LCD 2 rev 2's and my Trapezium desktop speakers rated at 89db...it sounds like the MT would be able to work well with your 90db Polk speakers but I'm not familiar with those speakers and how big they are and how big the room is you will have them in and how loud you wanna play them...I guess all these things come into play, but the MT has some oomph for sure! The reason I got the MT was for the same reasons your looking into it. I wanted an amp that would drive my Planar magnetic headphones AND drive some very efficient speakers. 2 in one! The MT fits the bill for me and should be even better after the new mods! Steve really feels like the new caps are gonna take the MT to a new level...
   
  Also I know I have small desktop speakers with my MT now, but it's very cool that I'll be able to pair them with bigger more efficient speakers down the line (like when I have more space/$$). I'm not married yet, but I was thinking that when I am, it will be easier to convince the wife that I "just" need to get new bigger speakers for our bigger (shared) living space as opposed to saying "Hey honey, I have to sell this amp I've had and I'm gonna loose some money when I do, and then I'm gonna buy a new amp AND new speakers for it"..
   
  That's all still a few years away for me, but I keep an eye out for efficient speakers and read up on them from time to time and there really are some interesting options out there so I'm not worried about being able to find the right pair for my set-up. I just love that the MT is so versatile. Tons of tube rolling options, tone knob, two inputs and a pair of outputs and now the feedback knobs on both channels..
   
  Hope this helps a bit...and congrats on the baby!


----------



## Argo Duck

It's likely the headphone option can be fitted on request - at extra charge. It was requests (from head-fiers) that led to the hp options for Taboo and Mini Torii.
   
  Call Decware and talk to Steve to discuss this and your general needs. I understand he is delightful to talk to.
   
  Personally, I still get best performance from my LCD2r1 using this setup - DAC (2 or 2.2Vrms = 2.8-3.1V peak) --> Taboo with 12AT7 driver --> LCD. Highly transparent and resolving, with good microdynamics.
   
  CSP2 significantly adds dynamics and weight *with speakers*. Until the right tube combination is found - I haven't _quite_ got it right yet - Taboo's transparency can suffer with the LCD2.
   
  Zen Torii - IDK. Others here will have more experience, or look in the Decware forums.


----------



## HPDJ

quick question for you all, do any of you hear any humming/buzzing/ANY kind of noise or sound when you have headphones (any headphones) connected to your Decware gear when NO music is playing??? Do you find this noise normal? Abnormal? Does it not bother you much once music starts playing if you have any noise at all?


----------



## Cante Ista

Thanks HPDJ and AiDee!
  I appreciate your input. I will definitely contact Steve, but your opinions provide a valuable input. 
   
  HPDJ - sorry you could not change you chases, but in my opinion the power white looks just as nice. Good luck with your mods! Let us know how they sound.


----------



## WNBC

You may have a bad tube.  When I had an issue with some buzzing it turned out to be a bad input tube.  Which was strange since it was a brand new Gold Lions 12AX7 used for about a week but these things happen.  Now the Taboo is back to its dead quiet self.  I would start replacing tubes (assuming you have a 2nd set) to identify a possibly bad tube.
   
  Quote: 





hpdj said:


> quick question for you all, do any of you hear any humming/buzzing/ANY kind of noise or sound when you have headphones (any headphones) connected to your Decware gear when NO music is playing??? Do you find this noise normal? Abnormal? Does it not bother you much once music starts playing if you have any noise at all?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





hpdj said:


> quick question for you all, do any of you hear any humming/buzzing/ANY kind of noise or sound when you have headphones (any headphones) connected to your Decware gear when NO music is playing??? Do you find this noise normal? Abnormal? Does it not bother you much once music starts playing if you have any noise at all?


 
  HPDJ,  No buzz at all. Dead quiet...
   
   
  Cante Ista, you may want to PM Skylab. He had the first Mini Torii with a HP mod....


----------



## Skylab

No need to PM me. I no longer have the MT, but as I have said many times, there was hum with high efficiency headphones, and the MT isn't designed for those. With the Audeze and HiFiMan headphones I had no hum audible.


----------



## snapontom

I have the csp2+ and taboo.  black as night, full volume.


----------



## Cante Ista

Skylab's posts on the MT with the HP mod was one of the reasons i was considering it. Thanks for the suggestions though and all the feedback.


----------



## HPDJ

I just switched all my tubes with my spares and the buzzing is still there...I can even hear it through my speakers. It's much more prominent on the left channel than the right. The right side is barely audible through the speakers...but with headphones it's unbearable on the left side and definitely noticeable on the right, more like humming/slight hiss on this side...
   
  So I don't think it's the tubes...even when I switched the tubes from one side to the other side with the set I had in there the buzzing remained the same on the left channel. What are some other reasons why this buzzing could be happening?? I have to talk with Steve about it...I've tried a bunch of different things to make sure it's not something I'm doing. I'm open to some suggestions of things to try. Thanks guys!


----------



## longbowbbs

If you have swapped the L/R tubes and the problem still persists on the Left then a call to Steve is definitely the next step.


----------



## dminches

Could it be your power?


----------



## HPDJ

I live in an apartment in NY and this particular place probably doesn't have very good power...but even if it was just the power that was the issue, it wouldn't explain why I have buzzing on one side and some hum from the other...will have to wait till Tuesday before I can contact Decware because they are closed on Mondays...thanks for all the suggestions!!


----------



## snapontom

what component do you have?  is there a power supply next to the component?  hope you can fix it without letting it go for a time.  I would really miss mine.  how long have you had the component, how long has it worked properly?


----------



## Argo Duck

MadDude had buzzing similar to what you describe HPDJ. His was a CSP2+.
   
  Unlucky for him, lucky for me as I bought his repaired (by Decware) amp. It is now dead silent (with no music signal!), as is my Taboo.
   
  Contact Decware for sure.


----------



## longbowbbs

I had buzzing, but it was a bad 6922 Golden Lion....New tube, all is good....


----------



## HPDJ

Snapontom, I have a Mini Torii and I've had it since January of this year...no power supply near it. It sits on a desk b/t my desktop speakers...the unit worked great until I noticed a buzzing in the RIGHT channel when I had headphones on (the LCD 2 rev 2's)...maybe 7 or 8 months in...the problem started getting worse little by little. When I put my ear to the RIGHT speaker (Trapeziums) I could hear the sound as well, although it was much less prominent. The issue was just on the RIGHT side, the left side was pretty quite. Maybe not dead quite but not distracting during quiet passages..
   
   After I completely ruled out anything I could be doing on my end and having walked through one or two more things to try as Steve was on the phone with me, he suggested that I send it back to be checked out. It turned out that it was an issue with the volume pot on the right side of the amp...Steve thinks it's an issue that could have started when it was shipped. Like maybe it wasn't handled right...the minor buzzing I was hearing would be at it's most prominent when the volume was all the way down on the right side, and would decrease in intensity as I raised the volume. So Decware had the amp for a few weeks and also offered to include the newly available upgrades to my amp while it was there...after talking it through with Steve I agreed to get the upgrades and finally got the amp back sometime last week..
   
  As soon as I turned it on the LEFT side had a prominent buzzing, kinda like the buzzing that was on the RIGHT side before but worse...I didn't have to move as close to the speaker as I did before I sent the amp back, to hear the buzzing. And it's just coming from the LEFT side now....I put on the LCD 2's and as you would imagine, the buzzing was VERY prominent in the LEFT channel...very distracting. 
   
  That's basically the story...I've tried a bunch of things to determine if it's something I'm doing or one of my other components but it's not. Sounds like mostly everyone else hears no noise at all. I still hear some noise on the non-buzzy RIGHT channel now (as I mentioned before)....slight hum when I have my phones on. Seems like a unique situation. Decware is a great company and I'm sure they will help me sort this out. I know it would not have left their possession if it had been acting up. I haven't had music in my system for weeks and weeks now...can't wait to get things rolling again!


----------



## longbowbbs

Man, how frustrating...   I hope you get things fixed soon!


----------



## Cante Ista

hey HPDJ. I hope you get this resolved quickly and painlessly.
   
  I am really interested in how this thing turns out for you. I have read here and there that service response from Decware could be not as prompt and friendly as initial sale. Of course, I have generally come across people saying that they are happy with the company. Please let us know how this turns out -- i.e. their response to your call, turn around time, and whether the issue was resolved when you got it back. 
   
  Also, Everyone, please understand that I am not trying to pick on Decware, just want to get more insight into this and hopefully set the record straight -- especially if the negative feedback I came across was just random, once in a blue moon thing, or just a generally grumpy person complaining (no offense).


----------



## Cante Ista

Also HPDJ, 
  I don't know much about electronics, but I wonder if perhaps you had a surge that messed somethings up in your amp. Are you running it directly off your wall? Perhaps some knowledgable people here can step in and assess my theory. Just seems weird that everything was good and then all of a sudden not, especially since you ruled out the tubes. In any case, perhaps getting a decent power conditioner maybe something could help out in the future. 
   
  Good luck, I really feel your pain.


----------



## setamp

I have a buzzing issue as well.  Neither my CSP2+ or Taboo buzz independently but when they are connected they buzz.  The CSP2+ can be unplugged with ac cable still attached and it will buzz but if I remove the cable the buzz stops.  I have been working with Steve to determine the problem.  Mine will disappear after playing music for 15-20 minutes (warm up for 30 minutes with no music will not eliminate the buzz).  I recently added a ground isolator to my catv which didn't help.  I plug everything into an Uberbuss.  I'll be calling tomorrow as well and probably sending one of my components back............


----------



## HPDJ

Thanks guys!
   
  All my components are plugged into a power strip from VH Audio called the Hot Box, and that is connected to an upgraded power outlet from Avatar Acoustics...I don't have a power conditioner but I was considering one from PI Audio group actually...funny that setamp mentioned their Uberbuss....not very encouraging to read that setamp is still having buzzing issues despite the fact that he uses a power conditioner. Our buzzing issues are probably unrelated so I won't sweat that


----------



## Douger333

Cante Ista,
  I spoke with Steve today about using my HE500 phones with my Torii 3. I have a cable from Drew at Moon Audio to come from the speaker taps to a female TRS which I am usually using with my Bottlehead 300B Paramounts. Sounds very good, some hum but they have trim pots
  that take care of it. Of course I tried it with the Torii, but the hum was terrible. However, the music was absolutely heavenly!
  Steve says that the Torii 3 has to much power and a disaster could happen too easily, he will not install a hp jack. He said that I could experiment with resistors on the speaker taps, start with 4 or 8 ohm, move up to 30 if those don't work. However, along with attenuating hum they will reduce dynamics.
  I may try this if I can buy 8 ohm resistors at Rat Shack, and I will post results. However, my Tannoy Canterburys yield a better musical experience than any phones when my daughter isn't sleeping


----------



## Cante Ista

thanks Douger333.
   
  I appreciate you reaching out to Steve for that. I have been reading the HE-6 threads and some people there are hooking up their cans to pretty powerful speaker amps (mostly through resistors) but it is good to hear the opinion of the man who has the most intimate knowledge of the system. I wonder if you could use the HE speaker adapter on your HE-500. It is made for the HE-6 I think, and has resistors in it, so I wonder how it would sound with your cans and your system.
   
  Personally, I am really leaning toward the Mini Torii now, but I think the price is going up, and the wife wants to put all extra money away for the baby. I don't argue with her, after she delivered the baby and all, and since she is actually right. Ahhhh decisions: Baby vs more audio gear-- sometime it is so hard to choose --- 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Daughters are pretty awesome, though!  In any case, it may be a while before I can take that step, and then I will wait 12 more weeks, ohhhh yeah, and then I want those planars, and new speakers -- freakin' fiscal cliff!!!
   
  And BTW, I envy your speaker rig. I bet it sounds super nice. Do you feed you Torii 3 through the Bottlehead or directly off the source?


----------



## Douger333

I was curious for myself about reducing the hum, I cannot adequately describe how transparent and liquid the music was with that combo...
  I read about the HE speaker adaptor, they specifically say that it won't work with the HE500, and I can't spend that much money now anyway.  Daughters are awesome indeed, I have 2 and they are helping me greatly since my wife passed.
  My Bottlehead is a pair of monoblock amps, 8.5 wpc. I do drive the Torii through my preamp, a 12ax7 Super PAS 3I by Van Alstine. I could get a little more clarity on CD's by going direct, but not enough to bother me and it is easier to play LP's without rearranging connections.
  My speakers are really great to me, they are excellent musically, even if not the last word in audiophile attributes. If you ever get to Omaha let me know and have a listen!


----------



## HPDJ

Hey guys,
   
  Spoke with Steve for a bit yesterday about the buzzing coming from the LEFT channel of my Mini Torii and he's perplexed as well...he mentioned that the amp was working great before they sent it out and that he personally checked it before it left...I asked if they tested it with headphones and he said testing it with headphones (LCD 2) is one of the main things they focus on when someone has the headphone mod. 
   
  After I ran through the laundry list of things I'd tried to do the alleviate the buzzing, he said that if I could bare to stick with it for one more week, it would be great to monitor it and see if anything changes. He said I should literally shake it up a bit and see if that effects the buzzing (tried that, no change) and give it a knock here and there to see what does (nothing so far). All this would presumably help him in his diagnosis of the issue because he doesn't understand it right now. If one the transformers was running hotter than the other then he said to send it back right away, but that has not been an issue thus far as well..
   
  Being that I still don't have my TT (ready for pickup now) or CDP because they are being repaired I told him that I'll play with it for another week. I really don't see the issue going away though. I notice the buzzing during quiet passages in music I've been playing from my speakers into the MT. And yes the buzzing happens even when I'm not connected to the computer. Steve also mentioned that it takes a lot of pressure or force to crack a volume pot, and that _that _was the issue the first time I sent it in (cracked pot)...this time around I don't know though....maybe something broke inside, maybe it's UPS' fault....
   
  Anyway that's the scoop, Steve was super nice on the phone and helpful as he always is. If I wanted to send it back now I think he would have been open to that. I hope if/when I have to send it back that it's a very smooth process


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





hpdj said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Spoke with Steve for a bit yesterday about the buzzing coming from the LEFT channel of my Mini Torii and he's perplexed as well...he mentioned that the amp was working great before they sent it out and that he personally checked it before it left...I asked if they tested it with headphones and he said testing it with headphones (LCD 2) is one of the main things they focus on when someone has the headphone mod.
> 
> ...


 
   
  thanks for the update. Keep us posted. This is really helpful for me as I am really eyeing the MT, sometime down the line. And good luck, I have read posts where people had issues with their gear and one day turned it on and the issues was gone. 
  Quote: 





douger333 said:


> I was curious for myself about reducing the hum, I cannot adequately describe how transparent and liquid the music was with that combo...
> I read about the HE speaker adaptor, they specifically say that it won't work with the HE500, and I can't spend that much money now anyway.  Daughters are awesome indeed, I have 2 and they are helping me greatly since my wife passed.
> My Bottlehead is a pair of monoblock amps, 8.5 wpc. I do drive the Torii through my preamp, a 12ax7 Super PAS 3I by Van Alstine. I could get a little more clarity on CD's by going direct, but not enough to bother me and it is easier to play LP's without rearranging connections.
> My speakers are really great to me, they are excellent musically, even if not the last word in audiophile attributes. If you ever get to Omaha let me know and have a listen!


 
  huh. I looked up the bottlehead and it said that it is a headamp plus preamp. I probably selected the wrong search result -- side effect of multitasking, when a baby is around. Thanks for clarification. 
  And I just just may take you up on a drop by one day. My job takes me out west sometimes  -- mostly Colorado Springs, but I have been to Omaha one as well. Not that I see that in my future anytime soon, but I appreciate the invite. I would like to hear that tube set up you have. Most of my experience has been with SS stuff, so increasing my tube listening experience sure would be nice. And if you are ever in DC, PM me. I dont have exotic gear, but I think my HD800 set up is pretty nice. Bring some music though -- you may not like a lot in my collection. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Also, sorry to hear about your wife. I cannot imagine what that's like, and you have my heartfelt condolence.


----------



## Douger333

Thank you very much for your kind words, I hope you never experience losing your wife, it's terrible.
  Bottlehead has a number of fine products, as does Decware. We are blessed with both these companies and their passionate owners! I am sure your system is very musical, I have enjoyed Senn HD800's a lot.
  Enjoy your family, get  what music you can while you can, and someday it will get easier!


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





douger333 said:


> Thank you very much for your kind words, I hope you never experience losing your wife, it's terrible.
> Bottlehead has a number of fine products, as does Decware. We are blessed with both these companies and their passionate owners! I am sure your system is very musical, I have enjoyed Senn HD800's a lot.
> Enjoy your family, get  what music you can while you can, and someday it will get easier!


 
  the HD800 are quite nice. It my understanding that they are wonderful with the CSP+. If I did not already have 2 amps that drive them, I would def be thinking about building my system around the CSP and Taboo. I believe they are nice and tubey but don't sacrifice the detail that the 800s can present so well. My complaint about my two amps is that they sound similar. The Sonett presents the music very similarly to the Phonitor, with just a touch of "tubeyness." It is a great amp and I do love it but I for a second amp I would like a little "wetter" sound. Hence my desire for a decware amp for speakers and planars -- just have to be patient though.


----------



## snapontom

I haven't posted in a while.  My CPS2+, Taboo combination continue to provide me with the best sound I have ever had.  I was invited to a home to listen to a SS set up that my friend was very happy with, he just had it refurbished.  We listened to CDs and I discovered Conway Twitty for the first time.  I borrowed a couple of his CDs to download into my iTunes.  The older CDs are are not as good as the 196kps music I get off Pandora One.  For example, my Stan Getz downloads off iTunes are much clearer than his Best of Stan Getz CD.  My recording of So What by Miles Davis reveals two separate recording sessions.  The intro is horribly engineered, the body of the recording is perfect, and then the end seems to be engineered by the same studio that did the intro to the song.  My Decware is performing so well right now that my interest is moving toward the quality of the recordings themselves.  Is there a thread here that addresses recordings, good and bad?


----------



## Willarman

I've been lurking in this thread for too long! Should be making my Taboo purchase very soon, just waiting to hear back from Decware regarding some questions I had.

Perhaps some of you would be able to help me in the meantime?



> Basically, my current setup consists of a Cambridge Audio 650A, running into my headphone amp via tape / record out puts. It does have a Pre-amp output also, but I’m currently using that for a sub for my speaker setup. Would running through the tape / rec out into the Taboo be enough? Or would you need to know specific voltages to make a recommendation? Also I could run through the Pre-amp outputs if you would think that would be a better choice, as I’m not using my speakers very often if at all at the moment anyway.




I have searched through the manual for the CA 650a and their website, and can't seem to find any specific specification relating to the output voltages.

Cheers all, and thanks for the info in this thread, it has helped me make a final decision on a headphone amp for my LCD-2s finally!

EDIT: Just put through my order.. the wait begins! Wishful thinking says I hope I get it before Christmas, I highly doubt that though!


----------



## Frimpy

6N2P-EB tubes  and  Decware SE34i integrated with ...   As I've written in previous pages my phono stage doesn't have enough gain (39db) to give me the volume I desire. (Cambridge 551p)
   
  I ordered a few 6N2P-EB  tubes from Moscow and received them yesterday. Well that extra 2Db of gain has made a large improvement, I now have the volume I desire, there is ooomph in my music.
   
  I smiles all afternoon, turned the volume up all the way and still havent clipped this amp with my turntable.  It is sweet, smiles all afternoon. 
   
  Alas there is a price to pay for everything. The 6N2P's are noisier than the 6N1P's.  Unsure if its because of the greater gain but it sounds like tape hiss at louder volumes, more crackle from Lp's also.
   
  I do not care the ooooomph I've gain is sooo worth it to me. I will try and write a comparison of 6N1P vs 6N2P in the future, that is if I ever take the 6N2P's out of the amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Frimpy


----------



## Llloyd

Quote: 





willarman said:


> I've been lurking in this thread for too long! Should be making my Taboo purchase very soon, just waiting to hear back from Decware regarding some questions I had.
> Perhaps some of you would be able to help me in the meantime?
> I have searched through the manual for the CA 650a and their website, and can't seem to find any specific specification relating to the output voltages.
> Cheers all, and thanks for the info in this thread, it has helped me make a final decision on a headphone amp for my LCD-2s finally!
> EDIT: Just put through my order.. the wait begins! Wishful thinking says I hope I get it before Christmas, I highly doubt that though!


 
   
  It will be enough for headphones if that's what you are asking.  The max I've gone with headphones(HE-500) is a little over half with really well mastered/dynamic material.  Compressed recordings I sit at around 9 o clock or even less.  I run speakers and headphones just fine without a preamp.  Supposedly the csp2+ for instance will add more dynamics.  I've tried other preamps but I found it diminished the sound quality due to them just not being great preamps.  Decware recommends no preamp as well over a cheapo one.  I don't know how good a ca650 is, but yeah just some general advice.  My DAC has a little higher output than average, but still less than they recommend on the decware site.  Even so I'm extremely happy.  6W is enough for any headphone besides the HE-6 i guess.  Apparently even the HE-6 is pretty good with most stuff through the taboo as well.  I think you will be very happy with just the amplifier and I'd recommend trying it and getting used to it without a preamp before you add anything to your chain.
   
  Make sure you specify a switch from headphones to speakers, I don't have one and I didn't know you could ask for that option but I'd really like one.  I would recommend getting a pair of cheapish speakers even.  I'm using 200$ napa acoustic speakers (86db efficient I believe) and they sound really wonderful through the taboo and just enough volume for my bedroom.


----------



## snapontom

I ordered the Taboo, then ordered the CSP2+ a week later.  Glad I did.  The CSP2+ has the four gain controls, two for the input and two for output.  The volume control on the CSP2+ when coupled with the Taboo is like gliding on ice.  Smooth subtile changes over a wide spectrum, it's hard to describe.  I also purchased the Decware silver RCA cables to connect the two, and Decware made me a couple capacitor plug-ins to use when the Taboo is not connected to speakers.  I made all the right decisions.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





llloyd said:


> It will be enough for headphones if that's what you are asking.  The max I've gone with headphones(HE-500) is a little over half with really well mastered/dynamic material.  Compressed recordings I sit at around 9 o clock or even less.  I run speakers and headphones just fine without a preamp.  Supposedly the csp2+ for instance will add more dynamics.  I've tried other preamps but I found it diminished the sound quality due to them just not being great preamps.  Decware recommends no preamp as well over a cheapo one.  I don't know how good a ca650 is, but yeah just some general advice.  My DAC has a little higher output than average, but still less than they recommend on the decware site.  Even so I'm extremely happy.  6W is enough for any headphone besides the HE-6 i guess.  Apparently even the HE-6 is pretty good with most stuff through the taboo as well.  I think you will be very happy with just the amplifier and I'd recommend trying it and getting used to it without a preamp before you add anything to your chain.
> 
> Make sure you specify a switch from headphones to speakers, I don't have one and I didn't know you could ask for that option but I'd really like one.  I would recommend getting a pair of cheapish speakers even.  I'm using 200$ napa acoustic speakers (86db efficient I believe) and they sound really wonderful through the taboo and just enough volume for my bedroom.


 
   
  From what I've gleaned from the Decware site, adding the switch can be done but it modestly impacts sound quality. Better to use the speaker resistors, methinks.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> From what I've gleaned from the Decware site, adding the switch can be done but it modestly impacts sound quality. Better to use the speaker resistors, methinks.


 
  I had the first Taboo with the headphone jack and the switch was also made at my request and it did not degrade sound at all and is very convenient if your using with speakers. I highly recommend the switch. Eric has the Taboo i sold hom and maybe he could chime in/


----------



## WNBC

Yeah, the posters from the Decware Blog seem to indicate that there is a difference in sound coming from headphones when there are speakers attached & the switch or resistors are used vs no speakers/no switch used.  My understanding from that thread was that the sound from one configuration is not necessarily better than the other.        
   
  If there was a serious issue would Decware inform buyers via their own website or elsewhere that when buying the Taboo with headphone output they should have speaker switch installed or purchase resistors.  Would be easy for them to include these additional options on their websites rather than have people in the dark and having to call to get an answer to this question (emailing is very iffy).  The majority of people that do call seem to get the response from Steve that yes resistors are recommended if there is no switch.  Maybe that info is on the website.  I'll have to check to see if there has been an update.  This info would be helpful for us newbies.  Seems like the seasoned audiophiles already know speaker loads and resistors.  In any case, the Taboo sounds great with headphones with no speakers or resistors attached.  I've been using the Taboo primarily with speakers now but will eventually get around to testing the Taboo with speakers + headphones + no switch.  
   
   
  Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> From what I've gleaned from the Decware site, adding the switch can be done but it modestly impacts sound quality. Better to use the speaker resistors, methinks.


----------



## Llloyd

I personally notice no change with or without speakers plugged in so idk.


----------



## dminches




----------



## Skylab

Lookin good! That 596 is one wild looking tube.


----------



## longbowbbs

I'll post my pic next weekend. On the road Monday naturally!

David, what are you using for your L/R?


----------



## dminches

L/R?


----------



## longbowbbs

Left and rt vs driver


----------



## dminches

They are a pair of Amperex EL84s. What are others using?


----------



## Argo Duck

I've stayed with stock so far, hence activating the hazen grid mod. I've changed the rectifier (once) and driver tubes (about five options) with excellent results. I discovered I prefer neutral, resolving sound. Sound-stage is not important to me - I get that from my speaker rig.
   
  The Hazen grid seems pretty good judging by the resulting sound. I've never compared to know for sure.
   
  I must re-read Steve's description to understand _what_ it actually does


----------



## longbowbbs

I have the stock 6N1P's in the Left/Right positions and a Genalex Golden Lion 6922 in the driver slot....I am running a Jan Sylvania 5U4G as the rectifier until the 596 gets here.


----------



## SHAHZADA123

SUBSCRIBED.
  My CSP-2 is doing a great job as a pre-amp with a Densen B320 power (100wpc) driving the HE-6.
  Fantastic value for money.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





shahzada123 said:


> SUBSCRIBED.
> My CSP-2 is doing a great job as a pre-amp with a Densen B320 power (100wpc) driving the HE-6.
> Fantastic value for money.


 
  Do you lose any of the tubeness running it trough a power amp? I mean, have you tried the CSP as a headphone amp with another headphone ( i.e. nothing between  tubes and headphones) and compared it your HE rig? Thanks!


----------



## snapontom

Saw a nice Taboo with the Vcaps on ebay.  That is the rig I have.  The caps don't have enough time to be broken in.  My Taboo, CSP2+ combo does not shout, the sound is right there at the speaker.  Nice.  I use 12 guage copper wire, the kind used to hook up lawn lights, for speaker cable.  I wonder if a good speaker cable would make much difference.  BTW I have the 596 tube in both the Taboo and CSP2+.


----------



## longbowbbs

Wonder why they are selling. Sometimes I do not think people understand there is a break in period.


----------



## snapontom

It sold, must have been at the buy it now price.


----------



## Willarman

These pics are making me jealous! This wait is brutal, but at the same time it kind of adds a character to the whole thing.. I like it

Has anyone here happened to off asked Steve if he would do a custom LCD-2 cable? 

Cheers!


----------



## longbowbbs

USAF-596 in the house!


----------



## Argo Duck

Wow - looks seriously good. Actually suits the styling!


----------



## longbowbbs

The sound is BIG too...


----------



## longbowbbs

Anyone want to buy Taboo serial number 1? How about CSP # 4?
   
   
  http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tube-decware-taboo-csp-2012-12-15-amplifiers-27522


----------



## Nick Dangerous

That's a great deal. The Taboo is my current favorite amp for Grados. It would be a great match for someone on a budget w/a pair of 225's.


----------



## longbowbbs

Buying a little piece of audio history....


----------



## SBoy

I have a mini torii that i'm pairing exclusively with lcd2 rev2. Anyone getting sort of like a 60Hz hum with this amp? I've return the amp twice for couple of errors previously but i'm getting this 60Hz hum now. Just want to hear insight from you guys.


----------



## longbowbbs

No hum on my CSP2+...Dead quiet...


----------



## SBoy

my mini torii is not fortunate. One more problem is that i need to almost dead short the speaker plugs with 1.5ohm to get rid the hum to acceptable level. Could this be grounding issues?
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> No hum on my CSP2+...Dead quiet...


----------



## longbowbbs

I could not say. You may want to PM Skylab. He used to own a MT for HP use and may have some perspective for you. Otherwise, I would call Steve on Wednesday and talk to him directly.


----------



## SBoy

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I could not say. You may want to PM Skylab. He used to own a MT for HP use and may have some perspective for you. Otherwise, I would call Steve on Wednesday and talk to him directly.


 
  Thanks! Maybe someone here with MT could chip in and help me resolve this issue?


----------



## Skylab

I didn't have any hum with the MT and the LCD-2. I did get hum with the MT and very high efficiency headphones, but not with the LCD-2.


----------



## longbowbbs

Thanks Rob!


----------



## SBoy

Looks like couple of people who owns mini torii is having the same problem. Yeah, ill give Steve a call Wednesday to address the problem.


----------



## SBoy

Looks like couple of people who owns mini torii is having the same problem. Yeah, ill give Steve a call Wednesday to address the problem.


----------



## Hi-Five

Finally took an iPhone shot of my Decware Trio (that's the ZP3, CSP2+ and Taboo front to back) to share with the Dec'heads.  Looking to have Steve make me a step-up, but I'm pretty much at end-game for now.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





hi-five said:


> Finally took an iPhone shot of my Decware Trio (that's the ZP3, CSP2+ and Taboo front to back) to share with the Dec'heads.  Looking to have Steve make me a step-up, but I'm pretty much at end-game for now.


 
   
  Nice looking family Hi-Five! I am hoping to add the Taboo and ZP3 over time to complete the set myself.
   
  Any tube rolling that has worked well for you?


----------



## Hi-Five

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Nice looking family Hi-Five! I am hoping to add the Taboo and ZP3 over time to complete the set myself.
> 
> Any tube rolling that has worked well for you?


 

 Thanks longbowbbs!  I cant recommend the Taboo and/or ZP3 enough if you already have a CSP, it really rounds things out nicely.
   
  I'm still rolling tubes in the ZP3 to get the best fit with the Dynavector cart, but I've found most changes in swapping the driver tube.  Had settled on a Tele ecc83 which is fantastic, but currently enjoying a bit more sparkle with a Lorenz ecc83.  I was using a Tung-Sol 5y3gt that was a fantastic rectifier, but trying out one of my RCA 5u4g tubes right now.
   
  Pictured are:
  ZP3; Lorenz ecc83, Ei 12ax7, Ei ecc82, RCA 5u4g, Sylvania OA3
  CSP; Telefunken e88cc, Brimar CV2492, Bendix 6106
  Taboo; Telefunken ecc83; SARATOV 6P15P-EV, Sophia Princess 274b
   
  My ears aren't good enough to hear much of a difference with power tubes (other than EL84/SV83 type swaps on the Taboo).  But for input tubes (hopefully my terminology is correct) in the CSP and Taboo I've really enjoyed Amperex, Telefunken and Brimar NOS tubes.  For my setup anything but the Lorenz or Telefunken is too warm for the DV20X2.  Rectifiers I usually prefer the RCA 5u4g for most applications, but swap in the Sophia occasionally.  I've recently fallen in love with the Bendix 6106 too.  Paired with the right input tubes it is amazing!  Lots of authority, tight bass and the construction of this tube is unreal, it should last forever.
   
  I also have a EML 5u4g that I run in my WA6SE in the bedroom, but I'd love to run it in one of the Decware amps.  Anyone using an EML in any of their Decware's?  I've heard some cautionary tales and am not psyched to risk a $200+ tube without good reason.


----------



## longbowbbs

I hear you on the driver tubes being the most influential. Steve told me to expect that when I ordered the CSP2+. I have a Genalex Golden Lion 6922 in that spot with the stock 6N1P's for L/R. Really digging the USAF-596 rectifier. I also enjoyed the Jan Sylvania 5U4G in that spot.
   
  Nice on the Dynavector. I loved the 10X4 when I still had my CJ Walker table. Now I am without so I'll probably go to that last and get the Taboo before the ZP3....
   
  What speakers are you running off the Taboo?


----------



## Hi-Five

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I hear you on the driver tubes being the most influential. Steve told me to expect that when I ordered the CSP2+. I have a Genalex Golden Lion 6922 in that spot with the stock 6N1P's for L/R. Really digging the USAF-596 rectifier. I also enjoyed the Jan Sylvania 5U4G in that spot.
> 
> Nice on the Dynavector. I loved the 10X4 when I still had my CJ Walker table. Now I am without so I'll probably go to that last and get the Taboo before the ZP3....
> 
> What speakers are you running off the Taboo?


 
   
  Nice, I've been very curious about the 596.  That sucker needs an adapter right?
   
  I'm running Horn Shoppe model 1's on the Taboo.  I really, really love these speakers for the room they are in.  I've not heard many other folded horns, but the midrange is as sweet as can be and they really do play down pretty low, just not super loud.  I thought about getting a sub, but scratched the idea to stay in the purist camp.  It's pretty amazing the sound you can get from a single 3.5" driver and what, six watts from the Taboo?  Love this hobby!  But my wallet hates Head-Fi...and record stores.


----------



## Hi-Five

Here's a closeup of the trio....
   
  Sorry the tubes aren't lit.


----------



## longbowbbs

Nice!
   
  Here is the 596 on the CSP2+. I got the adapter from 2359Glenn here on Head-Fi....


----------



## Hi-Five

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Nice!
> 
> Here is the 596 on the CSP2+. I got the adapter from 2359Glenn here on Head-Fi....


 
   
  Oh sweet, now that is BAD@SS!
   
  Glenn did adapters for my WA6SE, great guy!


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





hi-five said:


> I also have a EML 5u4g that I run in my WA6SE in the bedroom, but I'd love to run it in one of the Decware amps.  Anyone using an EML in any of their Decware's?  I've heard some cautionary tales and am not psyched to risk a $200+ tube without good reason.


 
   
  I've run the EML 5U4G in my Taboo for a while and haven't had any issues.  I had a conversation with Steve about this, and I'm fairly certain it's just the EML 274B that will burn out quickly and spark when turning on the Taboo.  I'd feel pretty safe to try it out if I were you.  That being said, I'm not entirely sure it sounds better than the Bendix 6106.  I think it'll depend on the upstream components and personal preference.  (I can definitely say it looks cooler though).


----------



## supra1988t

How dangerous would running a "cheater" two prong adapter be on a CSP2+ and what are the potential consequences?  I am having a nasty ground loop problem that is making it nearly impossible to use the CSP2+ as a preamp.


----------



## longbowbbs

I have no clue.. You could either ask Steve Deckert at Decware (He is easy to get on the phone) or drop 2359Glenn a PM. He has worked on and modified CSP2+'s before and would probably know.


----------



## Rizlaw

Quote: 





hi-five said:


> I also have a EML 5u4g that I run in my WA6SE in the bedroom, but I'd love to run it in one of the Decware amps.  Anyone using an EML in any of their Decware's?  I've heard some cautionary tales and am not psyched to risk a $200+ tube without good reason.


 
   
  This Decware forum thread may be of some help to you:
   
  http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1341384562


----------



## setamp

I  was diagnosing a ground loop and spoke with Steve.  He suggested trying a cheater plug.  He saw no danger in doing so.  Mine turned out to be a CATV ground issue that was only apparent with a Taboo in my system.  I solved it with a CATV ground filter.  Good luck.  Ground loops can be tough to diagnose and not necessarily the (direct) result of the last piece of equipment added.


----------



## longbowbbs

Heads up Decware fans....Something special for sale on the Decware Forum!
   
  http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1357361267/2#2
   
  Rachael #1


----------



## MorbidToaster

Kind of a long shot but I'm wondering if anyone has heard the Decware Phono Stage with a Leben 300 or 300XS. 
   
  I think there's a 300XS in my future but the matching phono stage is quite expensive (roughly 4k with a step up transformer) so the Decware could be a possibility if it's a good match.


----------



## longbowbbs

Cl





morbidtoaster said:


> Kind of a long shot but I'm wondering if anyone has heard the Decware Phono Stage with a Leben 300 or 300XS.
> 
> I think there's a 300XS in my future but the matching phono stage is quite expensive (roughly 4k with a step up transformer) so the Decware could be a possibility if it's a good match.




Clayton SF has the 600 with the ZP3, I think.....


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> I've run the EML 5U4G in my Taboo for a while and haven't had any issues.  I had a conversation with Steve about this, and I'm fairly certain it's just the EML 274B that will burn out quickly and spark when turning on the Taboo.  I'd feel pretty safe to try it out if I were you.  That being said, I'm not entirely sure it sounds better than the Bendix 6106.  I think it'll depend on the upstream components and personal preference.  (I can definitely say it looks cooler though).


 
   
  I am running the EML 5U4G in my ZP3 at the moment and have run it in the CSP2+ and Taboo with no problems. I own 2 of them but only one is in rotation. Gots 2 save the big glass.


----------



## dminches

Have you compared the EML 5U4G with the 596?  I have both but haven't done this yet.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Have you compared the EML 5U4G with the 596?  I have both but haven't done this yet.


 
   
  I haven't either. I've been swapping between an RCA 5U4G and the EML in my ZP3 and listening primarily to my speaker system. I really do like the RCA 5U4G in the ZP3 where the lows are tighter. With the EML the sound is broader and maybe slightly boomier.


----------



## Hi-Five

I'm glad to hear of success with the EML 5u4g.  It is indeed one of my favorite rectifiers with my WA6SE and I've been dying to try it in one of the Decwares.


----------



## Clayton SF

I have used the EML 5U4G in the ZP3, CSP2+ and the Taboo. The mesh plate did spark two different times when used in the CSP2+ but it hasn't since. The EML improves the sound of the Decware trio. Like I described when it is in the ZP3, the sound is broader and slightly boomier in a good way.


----------



## Hi-Five

Thanks for your impressions Clayton SF.
   
  The RCA 5u4g has been my favorite in the ZP3 also, and actually neck and neck with a Tung-Sol 5y3wgt.  This got me wanting to try another Bendix 6106 in the ZP3 as it is my current favorite in the CSP+.


----------



## Clayton SF

5Y3 are a favorite of mine in a lot of amps that use the 5U4G. I've never tried a Bendix 6106. I guess they're hard to find and well-regarded too.
   
  My other favorite tube is the Brimar 5Z4G / CV1863. I use this tube in all 5U4G sockets. They are really nice and smooth. Here it is in my WA22 amp.


----------



## dminches

The only thing I do not like about the Taboo are the fact that all the jacks (power, speaker, interconnect, headphone) face upward.  It puts unnecessary wear on everything since gravity eventually pulls them down and the amp is usually on the highest shelf for tube height and heat dissipation.


----------



## setamp

Quote: 





dminches said:


> The only thing I do not like about the Taboo are the fact that all the jacks (power, speaker, interconnect, headphone) face upward.  It puts unnecessary wear on everything since gravity eventually pulls them down and the amp is usually on the highest shelf for tube height and heat dissipation.


 


 I agree.  It limits the PC's to flexible and lightweight offerings.  It also puts the PC too close to the IC's.  I have a Taboo next to my CSP2+ and really have to struggle to separate the cables.


----------



## dminches

Agree.  I use a relatively heavy PC and the weight of it causes it to tilt to the side.  It won't fall out on its own but I would prefer it fit more snuggly.
   
  Anyone else using power cords and fit tight in a taboo or other similar unit?


----------



## longbowbbs

I had Decware put the headphone jack for my CSP2+ on the front. I know they will do that with the Taboo as well if you request it.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I had Decware put the headphone jack for my CSP2+ on the front. I know they will do that with the Taboo as well if you request it.


 
   
  My Taboo has the HP out on the front, and the CSP2+ is the standard top-mount toward the back.


----------



## dminches

The headphone jack is the one that isn't an issue because my q-audio headphone cable is completely flexible.


----------



## dminches

Dbl post


----------



## Clayton SF

I actually prefer the input/outputs on the top. My cables aren't stressed and it really adds a certain vertical linear flair to the setup.


----------



## dminches

What power cord are you using?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dminches said:


> What power cord are you using?


 

 An inexpensive and very effective one--
The Emotiva X IECX Series IEC Shielded Power cable


----------



## dminches

How tightly does it fit in the taboo? My audience cable tilts a bit due to its weight.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dminches said:


> How tightly does it fit in the taboo? My audience cable tilts a bit due to its weight.


 

 Same-same. It tilts too but I don't fret about it. It sounds so much better than the standard IEC cable that fits snugly with no play.


----------



## Hi-Five

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I actually prefer the input/outputs on the top. My cables aren't stressed and it really adds a certain vertical linear flair to the setup.


 

 Very nice Clayton, I like the ZP3 with the inputs up front and short, looks great!  I got mine at the rear for convenience but it was a tough decision.


----------



## Hi-Five

Not to re-post my poor quality photo again but you were talking about power cords.  I had large gauge PCs on my amps for awhile and had the same issue so got the Decware power cords.  I would say that the IEC connector still fits the same, not locating to the plug but rather relying on good contact strength.  The main difference is that the Decware cords are fairly flexible and much lighter weight, but they still get crooked if disturbed.
   
  Also, I do like the vertical setup of the ICs but getting the right length is critical.  I've been considering removing my switch-box (off frame top right) and just using the input switch of the CSP for TT/DAC so I can use short ICs like between the CSP/Taboo.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Is anyone using their phono stage with one of their Step Ups? I'm interested in their step up with a different phono stage. Has anyone tried this?


----------



## dminches

Thanks for the photos and suggestions.  Right now my taboo is being fed from my AVA DAC which is located on the shelf below it.  So, regardless of the IC length, the cord will have to bend at some point.  I will take a look at the Decware and Emotiva options.


----------



## Nyvar

*[size=medium]After having lived with my CSP2+ and Taboo for almost a year, I’ve finally decided to give tube rolling a shot.  It’s more for the hell of it than any need to improve on what I hear. After scouring this thread, about all I can determine is like everything else in this wonderful world, it’s ultimately all about what works for the listener.  

I’ve chosen, but haven’t clicked “purchase” yet on two sets: 

Genalex Gold Lion 12AT7 & GGL 6922
Amperx BB 6dj8 & Amperex orange globe 12AX7

Think this is a decent starting point for exploration?

For the record I listen to mostly classical via DM945 + M8, or HD800. [/size]*


----------



## setamp

Do you think you need the gain of the 12ax7 ?  With the CSP2+/Taboo combo a 12au7 should be a better fit.  I found a 12bh7 to sound best in my rig using the same pre-amp and amp.


----------



## dminches

Or a 5751.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Regarding the CSP:
   
  I'm curious to try the Gold Lion 6922 but it probably won't live up to the super$$$ tubes I've tried: Dario Miniwatt E188CC, Mullard 7308, etc.
   
  Currently I've settled on the tried-and-true Mullard E88CC w/old shield logo. No need to use three. Keep the 6N1P's in the driver slots to save cash (the sound is pretty much identical anyway).
   
  For the rectifier I'm using a Brimar 5R4GY which is great, though the RCA 5U4G (black base) is a good & cheap alternative. Also try the Sylvania or RCA 5Y3GT just to see if you like the 5Y3 sound (I didn't care for the Tung-Sol version but it is a popular choice).


----------



## Nyvar

> I found a 12bh7 to sound best in my rig using the same pre-amp and amp.


 
  What manufacturer?  RCA, Tung-Sol?
   
   
   


> Or a 5751


 
  I'll look at these as well, GE gray plate? 
   
   
Appreciate the input, thanks!


----------



## dminches

I have a bunch of 5751s but the one I use the most is the Raytheon with the windmill getter.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I have a bunch of 5751s but the one I use the most is the Raytheon with the windmill getter.


 
   
  Seconded the Raytheon blackplate w/windmill getter. Always a good choice.
   
  The only 5751 I found to exceed it was a yellow label Sylvania JHS 5751 triple-mica blackplate.


----------



## setamp

This is a good description of 12BH7 variations:

 http://oldstockaudio.blogspot.com/2010/05/12bh7-listening-test.html


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> Seconded the Raytheon blackplate w/windmill getter. Always a good choice.
> 
> The only 5751 I found to exceed it was a yellow label Sylvania JHS 5751 triple-mica blackplate.


 
   
  Gold pins?


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> Seconded the Raytheon blackplate w/windmill getter. Always a good choice.
> 
> The only 5751 I found to exceed it was a yellow label Sylvania JHS 5751 triple-mica blackplate.


 
   
  I'm currently using Sylvania Gold Brand 5751 triple mica black plates as drivers on my ST-70 - they're excellent.  I've also been a fan of the Tung-Sol long plate 2-mica 5751's.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Gold pins?


 
   
  I don't recall. Might have gone either way.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> I'm currently using Sylvania Gold Brand 5751 triple mica black plates as drivers on my ST-70 - they're excellent.  I've also been a fan of the Tung-Sol long plate 2-mica 5751's.


 
   
  Yeah I remember the Tung-Sol long plate 5751. I call that one the "Pink Floyd" tube... lush and syrupy but great in the right amp.


----------



## TEH725

I think this just came out today.  My appologies if it is not new news.
   
  Its a redesign of the Taboo specifically for planars.  Dual lucid mode...
   
http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1356975326


----------



## dminches

Why does Steve say in his post that you can't listen to the Taboo with a single ended headphone when it is not in lucid mode?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





setamp said:


> Do you think you need the gain of the 12ax7 ?  With the CSP2+/Taboo combo a 12au7 should be a better fit.  I found a 12bh7 to sound best in my rig using the same pre-amp and amp.


 
  When I owned the Taboo I used the Mullard AT7 old stock from Upscale audio. I tired 12bh7,5751 and the 12AU7 Mullard and some 12AX7 olds tock and it always was the Mullard 12AT7 I found to be best in gain and alsao the best sounding tube in my rig. I used Genelex 6922  for 2 years and now am using the Bugle Boys but make no mistake the Genelex is the finest current production 6922 IMO. I love the Buglr Boys  and have other ones also for rolling but these are in now the csp2 and I sold my Taboo. The 12 AT7 was my favorite tube for the Taboo


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Why does Steve say in his post that you can't listen to the Taboo with a single ended headphone when it is not in lucid mode?


 
  LLooks like there is a new Taboo coming for 500.00 more designed during the christmas break.  I guess you can ask if he is going to offer an upgrade path for your amp.


----------



## dminches

I already did but he hasn't responded yet.


----------



## Lord Soth

nick dangerous said:


> Regarding the CSP:
> 
> I'm curious to try the Gold Lion 6922 but it probably won't live up to the super$$$ tubes I've tried: Dario Miniwatt E188CC, Mullard 7308, etc.
> 
> ...




Don't mean to be rude but my experience is opposite of yours.

I tested many matched pairs of NOS tubes for the driver position before settling on the Siemens E188CC for my CSP2+.
There was a major sonic impact for me and some tubes like Siemens CCA didn't work so well.

As for the rectifier, the 5U4G didn't work so well for me. The 5Y3 and Brimar 5r4GY which I'm currently using sounded the best in my setup.

The Russian 6N1Ps require more juice and so I hypothesize that they would sound better with a 5U4G.

YMMV. I suppose?

But one thing I agree with you is that one can save big time by using only one uber expensive tube in front.
In my system, I have one single Pinched Waist Amperex 6922.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> Regarding the CSP:
> 
> I'm curious to try the Gold Lion 6922 but it probably won't live up to the super$$$ tubes I've tried: Dario Miniwatt E188CC, Mullard 7308, etc.
> 
> ...


 
  I have really enjoyed the Gold Lion 6922 in the front driver spot on the CSP2+. It pairs up nicely with the stock 61NP's and the Jan Sylvania 5U4G and the USAF-596.


----------



## longbowbbs

.


----------



## setamp

You really have to try combinations of tubes to determine what works for you.  I have tried rectifiers that people love that just didn't work for me.  The Mullard 12at7 is another that didn't sound as good as others in my rig.  Right now I am using:

 CSP2+
 Rectifier - I am between 596 and a Sylvania 5R4 blackplate.  I tried the well regarded Brimar 5R4GY blackplates but don't like them as much as the other 2.
 Power - Supercryo'd 6N1P's.  I tried a bunch of tubes in these slots and liked the 6N1P's the best and the Supercryo's were the best of the 6N1P's I have tried.
 Input - I tried a bunch of 6DJ8 variants and stopped with a Telefunken ECC85

 Taboo
 Rectifier - the 596 is the undisputed champ in my rig.
 Drivers - Sylvania EL84's but I need to swap back to the stock SV83's again to compare.
 Input - 12BH7 - I have a Sylvania and an RCA that I go back and forth between.  The RCA has a bit more top end while the Sylvania is butter smooth.  I found the 12BH7's in my setup to offer the most clear and linear sound.

 I am certain that if you put my amp and preamp in your system this would not be the ideal setup but this is what works for me with my Perfectwave MKII dac and LCD2 headphones.


----------



## Lord Soth

Hi Setamp,

The Telefunken ECC85 tube in your CSP2+ is a very original and unusual( to me  choice .

I've always liked the sublime midrange from Telefunken tubes though.
How's the bass for your setup?

For my own tuberolling, I've could never get over the lack of bass from Telefunkens.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Hi Setamp,
> 
> The Telefunken ECC85 tube in your CSP2+ is a very original and unusual( to me
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yep, I went with the Mullard E88CC for that very reason. Satisfying bass. Though the best midrange I've (yet) heard was from a Mullard 7308 (branded ATC).


----------



## setamp

My bass is very good but not quite dialed in as yet.  It is deep and the volume is correct but I need to firm it up just a touch.  That is why I mentioned swapping the SV83's back in.  My mids are excellent with a huge soundstage (especially for the LCD2's) great separation, air and tone.  I should probably leave well enough alone but sometimes I feel my bass is just a bit soft.  This hobby really feeds my obsessive / compulsive personality................


----------



## Nyvar

Thanks to everyone for you thoughts, input, particularly when put into the context of what does well, what does not.  It gave me not only a sense of how the tubes may affect the sound, but what you listen for.  
   
  Special thanks to setamp for two great take aways:
   
  This blog post was incredibly helpful, since they actually listen for some of the exact type of things I do.  
   
   


> http://oldstockaudio.blogspot.com/2010/05/12bh7-listening-test.html


 
   
   
  And this:


> I am certain that if you put my amp and preamp in your system this would not be the ideal setup but this is what works for me ...


 
   
   
  For a starting point here's what I went with:
   
  Mullard 7308
  Gold Lion E88CC
   
  Mullard 12AT7
  Sylvania 12BH7 gray plates 0 getter 
   
  Should do to get me a started for now.


----------



## snapontom

I went to the big city for business, and being there I took time to go to a high end audio shop.  I was interested in comparing sources, turntable vs digital.  Sources were fed into 50k of equipment.  I think the speakers were Wilsons and the amps were 300 wpc Mcintosh tube MC2301 monoblocks.  For numerous reasons, I am very happy my elegant CSP2+, Taboo, Klipsch sound.  My system is revealing and easy to listen to for hour and hours. Generally,  I prefer speakers to my LCD2 headphones, though the hps have much more range at the low end.  Their TT had, in my opinion, the best sound.  The 24 bit sound is fantastic, and iPad control is convenient.  The salesman asked me if I had an extensive LP collection.  I do not.  He said a TT is for folks that already have large record collections, and digital would be the best source for me.  The significant investments I make going forward will be in computers, dacs, hard drives, and digital recordings.  
  To hear a system like that, and know that my DECWARE is as enjoyable sonically is gratifying for me.


----------



## Clayton SF

Enjoying Aretha Franklin on my Pro-Ject and the Decware ZP3 and the Leben CS600.


----------



## longbowbbs

Are you working to Zu's or HP's tonight?


----------



## Clayton SF

Zu Omens tonight for Aretha--yes!
   
  The Beatles are next! New remaster of Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band.
   
  Zu Omens all night long.


----------



## TEH725

From the Decware Forum:
   
  Some of the revisions of the new Taboo MK III that can be applied to existing white Taboo's are:

 New Input Stage to increase the amplifiers gain to be closer to other Decware amplifiers eliminating the need for a preamp.

 Mod - $100

 Changed the input tube from a 12AU7 to a 6922

 Mod - $50

 Employed a voltage divider in series with the headphone output to increase the usable range of the volume control and further reduce noise.

 Mod - $70

 Added a second lucid mode circuit (and switch) designed for Planar Headphones that can be used with or without existing lucid mode.

 Mod - $150

 Modified the power supply and eliminated the choke for a more relaxed sound and more graceful clipping.

 Mod - $150

 Installed Cryo Treated Beeswax coupling capacitors in place of standard poly film caps for increased resolution, (even higher than VCAPs) and a more organic sound.

 Mod - $150

 And that's about it.


 Mods that will also be found on the new amp that can not be applied are as follows:

 Thicker Steel Top Plate for lower vibration / micro phonics making use of NOS tubes a more enjoyable experience on headphones.

 Black 1930's typewriter finish.

 Bias meters for each output tube so that you can see the condition of the tubes, how well they match, and when the amp clips.

 Fully Balanced XLR outputs for headphones in addition to the dual 1/4 headphone jacks, one on each side for convenience.

 Dual inputs for two sources - switch located in the front for ease access.

 Stepped Attenuator standard for perfect channel to channel tracking at low volumes on headphones

 Input level controls for each RCA input jack. That means a total of 4 controls for the 2 sources. This was done to improve the internal layout, and make it possible to balance the channels independently for each source. Example, I have a great sounding tuner but it's a touch weak on the right channel. I make the correction on the back of the new Taboo and never touch it again. My other source, a DAC, remains unaffected.

 BTW - the amplifier will also drive loudspeakers just as it always has, just sound better doing it.

 I'll post a picture of the prototype in this thread when I get me camera working next week.


----------



## dminches

I am curious when they will start doing these upgrades and how long it will take.
   
  My taboo has upgraded caps so I think I will skip that one.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I am curious when they will start doing these upgrades and how long it will take.
> 
> My taboo has upgraded caps so I think I will skip that one.


 
  Might be bette  to just get a NEW one and sell yours


----------



## dminches

That is a possibility, but a pain since my Taboo is finally getting broken in.  Plus, it would result in another 3 month wait in addition to the lost cost if/when I sell mine.


----------



## ManAtWork

My new CSP2+ finally arrived, after waiting for nearly 2 months. I chose some modification options on it, stepped attenuator and Jupiter cap mod. The tubes come with it are not as good as your guys. The rectification tube is a no-brand Chinese made 5U4G, and three others are 6N1P-EV but from different sources by each other but all from Russia. I can read that one of them are produced in '72. However, it sounds impressive initially and without any tube rolling, I can see how big its potential for sound improvement.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dminches said:


> That is a possibility, but a pain since my Taboo is finally getting broken in.  Plus, it would result in another 3 month wait in addition to the lost cost if/when I sell mine.


 
   
  Three months is nothing to me these days.


----------



## dminches

True.  It isn't as though I don't have another amp to listen to.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





manatwork said:


> My new CSP2+ finally arrived, after waiting for nearly 2 months. I chose some modification options on it, stepped attenuator and Jupiter cap mod. The tubes come with it are not as good as your guys. The rectification tube is a no-brand Chinese made 5U4G, and three others are 6N1P-EV but from different sources by each other but all from Russia. I can read that one of them are produced in '72. However, it sounds impressive initially and without any tube rolling, I can see how big its potential for sound improvement.


 
   
  Congrats MenAtWork! The day my CSP2+ finally arrived was a big one!  I would enjoy the stock tubes and let it break in then start the rolling journey. Welcome to the club!


----------



## longbowbbs

I am really interested in the new Taboo's possibilities, but I wonder if it can be made with the white top. I have to say the old typewriter black textured finish is not interesting to me. I would rather have the white top and matching maple like my CSP2+.


----------



## dminches

What does the black typewriter finish look like?


----------



## longbowbbs

Old School Typewriter crinkly black....


----------



## Hi-Five

Quote: 





teh725 said:


> From the Decware Forum:
> 
> Some of the revisions of the new Taboo MK III that can be applied to existing white Taboo's are:
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for the info *TEH725*, this new amp will undoubtedly be a winner.  This sucker has all the goods!  I read the rest of Steve's post where he mentioned that the new Taboo sounds twice as good as the current version.  That's a scary thought...


----------



## Hi-Five

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I am really interested in the new Taboo's possibilities, but I wonder if it can be made with the white top. I have to say the old typewriter black textured finish is not interesting to me. I would rather have the white top and matching maple like my CSP2+.


 
   
  I was thinking exactly the same thing until I realized that the new finish probably matches the finish of the plinth on my Classic 1...now do I go nuts and refinish the CSP and ZP3 as well? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Is this the Decware Appreciation thread or the Decware Addiction thread?


----------



## Argo Duck

hi-five said:


> Thanks for the info *TEH725*, this new amp will undoubtedly be a winner.  This sucker has all the goods!  I read the rest of Steve's post where he mentioned *that the new Taboo sounds twice as good as the current version.  That's a scary thought...*




Sure is scary. I find the Taboo scary good as it is. I'm frankly in disbelief that Steve found so much room for improvement.

On the upgrade option, I really think buy new is the better option. Better to get it all in one piece, than have some kind of 'in between' amp. Purely in my humble opinion of course!

And yep, this is the addiction thread


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





hi-five said:


> I was thinking exactly the same thing until I realized that the new finish probably matches the finish of the plinth on my Classic 1...now do I go nuts and refinish the CSP and ZP3 as well?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Those are different things?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> Those are different things?


 
  +1


----------



## setamp

Decware is not taking orders until Spring and with a 3+ wait for production we won't see the new Taboo until Summer


----------



## Hi-Five

Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> Those are different things?


 
   
  True enough, my mistake!


----------



## Willarman

Yes!! Parts pulled, so close yet so far


----------



## Argo Duck

A note about the Taboo as speaker amp, even when the speakers are mid-quality and being used improperly...
   
  I was telling my (very understanding) wife about Steve's new Taboo, and - should I buy one - what I might do with the old one. In our everyday TV room we have a simple M-Audio 2.1 set-up for sound, which I dropped in after our KEF surround system blew up for the 2nd time. The M-Audio system is meant as a PC-based near-field 'monitor' system, and performs ok for TV purposes.
   
  We decided we'd try the Taboo with the M-Audios. I didn't bother bringing the CSP2 around - so the sub was left out.
   
  Well, we were both amazed how good the little M-Audio satellites sounded! The was such good weight and body the sub wasn't missed at all. There was more presence - voices stood out clearly and were much more distinct. Or, as I'm sure TV is mixed for voice anyway in most cases, its more likely Taboo was simply delivering its usual clarity and transparency. It was striking how clearly vocal details registered e.g. changes in voice from the same actor in different scenes (he appeared to have a mild cold during one part of the shoot, which showed up in two distinct scenes about 30 minutes apart in the finished production), and voice changes as actors moved about wrt microphone and room.
   
  Going back to the M-Audio's amp (built-in to the sub; sub level zeroed for comparison), it's very apparent how muddy and indistinct its sound is, and just how little resolution it has.
   
  I quickly moved the Taboo back to my study, before my wife got too used to the improved sound 
   
  In the event, I've decided probably not to buy the new Taboo. On Decware's thread about the new amp Steve clarified that the difference is "the new LUCID mode, giving you an optionally wider soundstage with about 10 times the detail. IF you find yourself drawn to this listening mode, there will be no comparison. IF not, then it will be the same basic amplifier but with more resolution from the Cryo'd Beeswax caps [which outperform VCAPs Steve says in the same thread].".


----------



## rx7mark

Can someone provide a link to the Decaware thread with the details on the "New Taboo MkIII" 
   
  I have searched but not having any luck finding the thread.
   
  Thanks in advance.
   
  Mark


----------



## T.F.O.A

I'm thinking of getting the CSP2+, does the capacitor upgrade really make a big difference? or should i just spend more on tube rolling?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rx7mark said:


> Can someone provide a link to the Decaware thread with the details on the "New Taboo MkIII"
> 
> I have searched but not having any luck finding the thread.
> 
> ...


 
  http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1356975326


----------



## rx7mark

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1356975326


 

 Thanks longbowbbs!
   
  Now I am really excited about the new Taboo, sounds like exactly what I would like to get when I return from Italy next spring.
   
  Mark


----------



## Argo Duck

Sorry, I should've included a link with my post above.

Indeed, it should be a terrific amp! With its predecessor safely back in my LCD 2 rig, I was appreciating it anew last night, especially as I'm making progress with the right tubes for the csp2


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Sorry, I should've included a link with my post above.
> 
> Indeed, it should be a terrific amp! With its predecessor safely back in my LCD 2 rig, I was appreciating it anew last night, especially as I'm making progress with the right tubes for the csp2


 
  You need the Mighty 596!


----------



## Argo Duck

^ LOL yes indeed longbow - looking upon yours with envy.

Hmm... (looks at wallet)...


----------



## Willarman

Well, I received my Taboo today. I'm literally gob smacked... I don't really know what else to say at this point. Beautiful


----------



## Argo Duck

^ You mean the sound? Or the looks? Or both!!



And congratulations - it's an outstanding amp!


----------



## longbowbbs

Congrats Willarman!


----------



## V-Duh

Has everyone seen Steve's new Taboo MK III page?
   
http://www.decware.com/newsite/TABOO.htm
   





   
  Ranks right up there with some of the best looking tube amps.  This is going right to the top of my WTB list.


----------



## longbowbbs

Truly, I will NEVER have any spare change.....


----------



## Frank I

Thats a big increase in price from the Taboo I owned and sold which by the way was the first with a headphone jack. I had asked Steve to design it and I had the jack in the front. seems like a big jump in price IMO. But there a 200.00coupon code amd there are extras like the meters whuch are cool looking and a second headphone jack and also XLR inputs for balanced uses. So I guess 500.00 more is not really that outrageous.


----------



## Willarman

argo duck said:


> ^ You mean the sound? Or the looks? Or both!!
> 
> 
> 
> And congratulations - it's an outstanding amp!




Definitely both mate! Truly an amazing sounding and looking amp and I haven't even burnt her in yet. This is my first venture into tubes, and have always been a little weary of them, but I'm definitely a convert now! More specifically a Decware convert.. Man I really want that CSP2 now!!

And yes, I had the option to opt in for the newer Taboo just before mine was starting to be built, I couldn't afford it at the time unfortunately. It definitely looks beautiful in the white and I'm sure it sounds just as good too.

A little side note, I'd like to thank everyone who's contributed to this thread - I like to read into things before I buy them and this thread was definitely helpful in deciding what amp to buy. So thanks guys and anyone who's on the fence about a Decware amp, don't be afraid!

Happy listening maties


----------



## Skylab

I have to say that new Taboo is unbelievably cool looking.  I love the black plate (never did really like the white top of Decware amps) and the meters are super cool too.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I have to say that new Taboo is unbelievably cool looking.  I love the black plate (never did really like the white top of Decware amps) and the meters are super cool too.


 
  Hi Skylab,
   
  I do hope that Steve would let you review the latest Taboo amp with your Audeze LCD 3.
   
  Would love to hear how it compares against your existing  Leben and Red Wine Audio amps.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ now that's a review I would be interested in too.

Dear Lord, I'm with longbow and skylab. I had decided against the new taboo, but seeing these new pictures it's unbelievably good looking!

And Steve has been very specific about the changes in circuit and sound. This is certainly a 'must hear' and maybe a 'must buy'

I'm sure once I explain all this to my daughter she'll be willing to postpone her wedding to next year!!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> ^ now that's a review I would be interested in too.
> 
> Dear Lord, I'm with longbow and skylab. I had decided against the new taboo, but seeing these new pictures it's unbelievably good looking!
> 
> ...


 
  Ordered....(sigh).....
   
  Maple base, Gold knob and 4 pin XLR's......Let the wait begin!


----------



## dminches

What is the difference between the 3 pin and 4 pin XLRs?


----------



## Argo Duck

Congrats longbow. Seriously considering an order. The $200 discount is a real incentive. I see Pale Rider and others in the Decware forum have ordered as well.

dminches, the 4-pin XLR socket provides a complete balanced connection for a 4-pin, balanced cabled hp. If you get two 4-pins on the new Taboo, you could power two phones.

As I understand it, the 3-pin sockets are one per channel; only one balanced hp can be connected, which must of course be cabled with a pair of 3-pin connectors.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dminches said:


> What is the difference between the 3 pin and 4 pin XLRs?


 
  One use a double  plufg the 3pin and the 4 pin is a single plug.  he has the 3 pin XLR as standard. You ordering one Dave.


----------



## longbowbbs

Looks like a dozen or so in the current queue ahead of me. Interesting that 3 of them are from Wisconsin too...We could have a Taboo Mini meet!


----------



## dminches

Not sure. I really don't need one now since I have the prior version as well as 2 other HP amps.


----------



## Landmantx

Hello everybody!  I want to think you all for this 58 pages of information that convinced me to finally make the purchase.  After reading Steve gush over his new baby, I had to jump in and make the purchase of the new Taboo MKIII.  When I talked to Steve today on the phone, I was amazed at how cool and deliberate he was.  It is not easy to be calmer than a Texan.  Admittedly, I was pretty fired up about this amp though.
   
  The funny thing is, this for me is a total blind buy, but I feel very confident in it due in no small part to all the praise in this thread.  
  I went with the Mahogany base, Bees Wax, 4 Pin and Gold knob.  After spending the last two days with a constant stare on those pictures, I knew I was sunk.  It is an object of beauty!
   
  Ahh yes, Sorry for my wallet!
   
  Now, I need to start saving for my LCD2.2  I have about 8-10 weeks based on Steve's 3-month estimated wait and Audeze's backlog. 
   
  Again, thank you all.  I feel like I made a great choice and it is 100% due to the Head-fi community.  I wish I could have attended a meet or something to try all this out, but I have instead spent countless hours of research.  It came down to the Leben, Woo7, Taboo, and Passport.  I stretched for the taboo a bit over the Passport and Woo7 due to the fact that it can also power some high efficiency speakers down the road.  It was still significantly below the Leben, and I doubt I will ever be depressed about saving the $1,000.
   
  I have to be honest and say that I am no true Head-fier, but I did want to say thank you for allowing me to troll your forum and make an informed decision.  I had never even heard of Decware prior to finding this band of hi-fi gurus.
   
  Thanks again,
   
  Matt


----------



## Argo Duck

Congrats Matt. Glad we could help. I doubt you will be disappointed. Your only 'problem' will be to uncover the combination of tubes that suits your particular music and brain.

Btw, as Steve mentions in the Taboo page, it will work with "virtually any small monitors" for desktop use. I can confirm that my pair of *inefficient* KEF UNI-Q speakers work very well this way.

Talking of speakers, I notice the 8-ohm power is reduced very slightly - 2 x 4.6W (previously 2 x 6W). As Steve also notes 8-ohm speakers will be slightly louder than 4-ohm, *it seems he has raised the output impedance of the amp to better suit planar-magnetic phones*.

If true, Taboo III will deliver more to LCDs than the 2W-plus previously estimated by Chris J, one of the resident EEs. Of course, this also means more power to Grados, Hifiman and so on.


----------



## Frank I

I will be reviewing the new Taboo. Steve started the build today and I have also asked DMinches to come over when I have the amp for review so we can compare the old Taboo with the new model and susing the LCD2.2.,HD800<AT3000ANV and Dminches LCD3. Unfortunately the he500 has to be returned.  In about a month or so I will have a full blown review up  and have impressions. I am really looking forward to the review and the process.


----------



## longbowbbs

First review by Frank...Things as they should be!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Not sure. I really don't need one now since I have the prior version as well as 2 other HP amps.


 
   
  ??? and your point is ????


----------



## dminches

My point is that I am trying to convince myself not to buy it. We all know that wont last for long...


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I will be reviewing the new Taboo. Steve started the build today and I have also asked DMinches to come over when I have the amp for review so we can compare the old Taboo with the new model and susing the LCD2.2.,HD800<AT3000ANV and Dminches LCD3. Unfortunately the he500 has to be returned.  In about a month or so I will have a full blown review up  and have impressions. I am really looking forward to the review and the process.


 
   
  w00t!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





dminches said:


> My point is that I am trying to convince myself not to buy it. We all know that wont last for long...


 
  I do appreciate the self control.


----------



## Landmantx

I can't wait to hear Frank's impressions of the new Taboo and the new Lucid Mode. Hopefully he will get his hands on one soon. I have been hard at work trying to find a very affordable DAC to put into the stream. I am also considering the Mad Dog Alphas as a closed can to compliment the LCD2 when I get them. I haven't even started and I am already going crazy.


----------



## longbowbbs

It is cool that besides tube rolling you can adjust with the Lucid modes and the Hazen mods. I can't wait


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> It is cool that besides tube rolling you can adjust with the Lucid modes and the Hazen mods. I can't wait


 
  The 6922 gives you plenty of tube options to roll with I have quite a few. i should have the amp in 2 weeks. Looks very interesting with the lucid modes being dual. I am also looking forward to the balanced VS unbalanced comparison. I have the cable pro cable here burning in single ended. Nice cable


----------



## longbowbbs

I have really enjoyed the Genalex Golden Lion 6922 for the primary driver in the CSP2+. It works very well with the 6N1P's for the L/R output tubes.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I have to say that new Taboo is unbelievably cool looking.  I love the black plate (never did really like the white top of Decware amps) and the meters are super cool too.


 
  Bingo! Agreed completely Rob. This amp looks like a real winner.


----------



## Landmantx

As much as I would love to dive in and buy a bunch of tubes, I will probably have to sit on the sidelines and trust the ears of you head-fi gurus. First I need to focus on the DAC and Headphones. Then, I can tweak the cables and tubes if it is worth the $$$$.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> As much as I would love to dive in and buy a bunch of tubes, I will probably have to sit on the sidelines and trust the ears of you head-fi gurus. First I need to focus on the DAC and Headphones. Then, I can tweak the cables and tubes if it is worth the $$$$.


----------



## Landmantx

So true, so true. I started out with just a Denon AHD5000 in mind for $500. Somewhere along the path I fell in love with having a tube amp, a DAC and the LCDs. So, I will be about $2500 over my original $500 budget. Maybe I have already slipped and I just haven't hit the concrete yet. It's going to be pretty painful when I have to pay for the remainder of my Taboo and for my headphones.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> So true, so true. I started out with just a Denon AHD5000 in mind for $500. Somewhere along the path I fell in love with having a tube amp, a DAC and the LCDs. So, I will be about $2500 over my original $500 budget. Maybe I have already slipped and I just haven't hit the concrete yet. It's going to be pretty painful when I have to pay for the remainder of my Taboo and for my headphones.


 
  I know the feeling . I also found out your never done. Nice thing s one tube in driver section and only 2 el84.


----------



## longbowbbs

Truly...Welcome to the club!


----------



## Landmantx

I keep telling myself it is a lifetime investment . There is an evil guy on my left shoulder telling me I should go ahead and spring for the LCD 3's. yikes!!!


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> So true, so true. I started out with just a Denon AHD5000 in mind for $500. Somewhere along the path I fell in love with having a tube amp, a DAC and the LCDs. So, I will be about $2500 over my original $500 budget. Maybe I have already slipped and I just haven't hit the concrete yet. It's going to be pretty painful when I have to pay for the remainder of my Taboo and for my headphones.


 
   
  I have plenty of tubes that you can try out at some point since you live nearby.  We can try to find some time to work it out once you get your amp.  Should be fun.


----------



## Hi-Five

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> I keep telling myself it is a lifetime investment . There is an evil guy on my left shoulder telling me I should go ahead and spring for the LCD 3's. yikes!!!


 
   
  Same here *Landmantx*, though I think my rule is that I will have to raise the funds by selling off gear first.  If you had told me 5 years ago that I would actually consider headphones over $500 I wouldn't have believed it.  I was more than happy with my modest solid state amp and humble HD-650s.
   
  Then I found head-fi....but it's all good, there are certainly worse things to spend your hard-earned cash on.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Side note Dave, do you have any Leben 300 tubes I could try?
   
EL84 X 4
12AX7A X 2
   
  Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> I have plenty of tubes that you can try out at some point since you live nearby.  We can try to find some time to work it out once you get your amp.  Should be fun.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Side note Dave, do you have any Leben 300 tubes I could try?
> 
> EL84 X 4
> 12AX7A X 2


 
   
  I replied to your post in the Austin meet thread.  I'll be lugging pretty much everything I have readily available with me to the meet.


----------



## OPR8R

Let the waiting begin...
   
   
  After a long period of research, I've finally decided on a new headphone amp.  Thanks to Head-fi and this thread for helping me find the Zen Taboo.  It's going to be a long 8-12 weeks.


----------



## longbowbbs

OPB8R, looks like we'll both be watching the build updates!
   
  You can track it at the bottom of the Decware contacts page:
   
  http://www.decware.com/newsite/contacts.html
   
  Click on "Amplifier Real Time Build Sheet"


----------



## OPR8R

Thanks, longbowbbs.  I think you were the one who alerted me to the existence of the MKIII on the LCD-2 Amp Recommendations thread.  So, thanks again


----------



## V-Duh

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> OPB8R, looks like we'll both be watching the build updates!
> 
> You can track it at the bottom of the Decware contacts page:
> 
> ...


 
  I'm a little embarrased to say I've been pulling updates daily and dumping into a spreadsheet to see the progress.  Conditional formatting shows me when any order goes to parts pulled, on bench, testing QC, and packed.  Also a daily count of how many orders are ahead of me. 46...43...42...


----------



## OPR8R

LOLOL...  I was just trying to copy the rows into Google docs to do the same.  Since I don't have a pro version of Adobe it seemed to be more work than it was worth, especially since I don't even show up yet on a list on which I am at the bottom.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Thanks, longbowbbs.  I think you were the one who alerted me to the existence of the MKIII on the LCD-2 Amp Recommendations thread.  So, thanks again


 
  We can both raise a glass Mid May!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> LOLOL...  I was just trying to copy the rows into Google docs to do the same.  Since I don't have a pro version of Adobe it seemed to be more work than it was worth, especially since I don't even show up yet on a list on which I am at the bottom.


 
  You should be on it after today. it updates in the evening...Not that I watch much...


----------



## Landmantx

I have been spying this thread, the decware forum Taboo thread, and the build order spreadsheet daily! I really am almost glad that there is a wait, because it makes it so much more of a big deal. I have bought many toys in my life, but this is the first one that I have had to watch it all come together. I saw that the first Taboo MKIII is on the bench right now. Hopefully, whoever this Kevin B is, will be on here giving us a review soon. I still have 3 months to wait. 

Oper8r what did you spec?

Also, I am reading on the Decware forum about some wanting a switch between speakers and phones. I would love to have that. I wonder if Steve will end up allowing that as a custom option.


----------



## longbowbbs

I asked Steve about that switch and he was not happy with the potential noise added into the sound. It was not there on purpose.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> We can both raise a glass Mid May!


 
   
  That'll give me time to decide if I want to immediately upgrade my DAC and also research which wine/spirit will go best with the occasion.
   
  Quote: 





landmantx said:


> Oper8r what did you spec?


 
   
  I went Contemporary Walnut, the V-Caps, gold nob and the 4 pin XLR jacks.  Has it been 12 weeks yet?


----------



## Argo Duck

Hey nothing to be embarrassed about guys. I started a linear regression to forecast my Taboo's build back in 2011. Then I realized there were too many factors I couldn't account for in the model - e.g. work stopping for Decfest!

Landmantx, the wait certainly makes one appreciate it. Or it's worth the wait. Or something like that...

Longbow's right. Steve recently referred to that switch as "a mistake" in the Decware forum. Steve's preference is that one disconnect the speakers and connect resisters across the terminals when using headphones. As well, different resister values are another option for tuning the hp's sound.

OTOH my Taboo got delivered with the switch. I don't have a switchless Taboo to compare against but it's entirely academic to me - as mine sounds superb


----------



## Frank I

I spoke with Steve about the speaker  with the new Taboo. It was designed primarily for headphones thus the lower 4.6 rating because you do not need to connect speakers as the load had been addressed internally. I will be using the amp for headphones in the review as it has no switch I will  be doing the review primarily for the headphones. He also said this one as the other Taboo  can be used with the csp2 but it does not necessarily need to be used that way.


----------



## Poladise

Ah brilliant, I was going to ask if the speaker load issue had been addressed with the MK iii.


----------



## longbowbbs

I will ask Steve more about it. I will be at Decware on March 6th..
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  (Kinda like peeking into Santa's workshop!)


----------



## Landmantx

I would love to go hear those 945 floorstanding speakers playing out of a little 5 watt taboo amp. I am seriously tempted to put in my order, but $1500 is not cheap for a pair of speakers I have never auditioned. They look great though, and I just paid $1500 for a 5 watt per channel amp that I have never heard.


----------



## Landmantx

I would love to go hear those 945 floorstanding speakers playing out of a little 5 watt taboo amp. I am seriously tempted to put in my order, but $1500 is not cheap for a pair of speakers I have never auditioned. They look great though, and I just paid $1500 for a 5 watt per channel amp that I have never heard.


----------



## Landmantx

I just saw on the Build order sheet that Kevin B. is having his Taboo mailed out! I hope he is a member of this forum so we can get some early reviews. I can't hardly wait...


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Frank's review is the one to wait for. Not long. About 3 weeks all being well ...


----------



## Frank I

I should have the MK111 Tuesday and then need 3-4 weeks to listen and write the review so in about a month it will be posted. I will be comparing it to the existing Taboo and also wikll have DMinches listen to it and bring his LCD3 and Taboo. I also have the csp2 in house for the review process.


----------



## dminches

This should be fun!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dminches said:


> This should be fun!


 
  It will be for sure.


----------



## longbowbbs

Looking forward to the results, Frank!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Looking forward to the results, Frank!


 
  Let me know what you think Wed when you get there. Check out the monitors for me he has there let me know how good they are.  Give Steve my regards also/


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Will do...I am really looking forward to my visit to Decware!


----------



## Clayton SF

Looking forward to your review, Frank.
  Looking forward to your impressions of your first visit to Decware, lonbgowbbs.
   
  Looking forward to the weekend!!!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Looking forward to your review, Frank.
> Looking forward to your impressions of your first visit to Decware, lonbgowbbs.
> 
> Looking forward to the weekend!!!


 
  LMAO Thanks Clayton


----------



## Landmantx

I would love to hear some initial impressions of the MG944 speakers with a Taboo. I am interested in that speaker. I am a bit unsure how well 5-6 watts powers a floorstanding speaker. 

Lately, I have been trying to figure out which DAC will pair with the Audeze headphones and Taboo. I really would like to keep the cost down as much as possible, but I don't understand much about balanced etc. Any suggestions????


----------



## longbowbbs

I will be interested to see what DAC Steve is using on site. They had one you could buy, but it is not available anymore. I will have my Fostex HP-P1 (With it's AKM DAC) and an IPC with 160 GB of Lossless AIFF's with me. I am hoping to listen to the 944's and 945's with the Taboo. We'll see what is available for demo. I should be there by 3:00 or so Wed PM.


----------



## Landmantx

Steve mentioned a Dac on the phone with me that he said was very good and only $150. That one might be a good option, but I still don't understand if I need a balanced DAC. I hate being a Noob.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Nothing in the changes described for the new Taboo model suggests a balanced DAC is needed or indeed can be used with it. What has changed is the Taboo III has balanced as well as single-ended headphone outs. There's quite a variety of DACs in use with Decware amps, at just about every price-point! One school of thought - which I agree with - is you should get a neutral, detailed and transparent DAC. This makes your life easier, with just the amp to tailor to your preferred sound. Which you can do *a lot* with these amps - they respond very well to different tubes.


----------



## Poladise

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> Steve mentioned a Dac on the phone with me that he said was very good and only $150. That one might be a good option, but I still don't understand if I need a balanced DAC. I hate being a Noob.


 

 Was it the Odac? I'm thinking of using one of those with the Taboo this year and going for a better DAC next year.


----------



## Landmantx

No, I am looking at the ODAC, but Steve mentioned something by Tascam. I will have to research it as I was in my car and didn't write down the model. I trust Steve's opinion though.


----------



## snapontom

Balanced vs unbalanced.  The only reason for balanced inputs or outputs is when long distances have to be covered by cable.  I await the review of the Decware amp, I am anxious.  I have the Taboo and CSP2+.  I look forward to hearing about all the speakers at Decware too.  There is currently a lot to look forward to in this thread. Please, include lots of pics.


----------



## longbowbbs

I have an empty 8 gb SD card ready to go for Wednesday....


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I have an empty 8 gb SD card ready to go for Wednesday....


 
   
  I'll be interested to hear your thoughts on the new HR-1 that's replaced my ERR's as Steve's current radial (well hybrid radial at least) design.  They're significantly more "spendy" than my ERR's, but I love that he continues to use radials in some shape or form.


----------



## longbowbbs

I watched a couple of hours of Zenfest while they were listening to the HR-1's. I am not sure I should listen to them... lucky I drive a Prius and I can't fit them in the car! Seriously, it would be neat to hear them on the new monos. Yikes!


----------



## Landmantx

They would have a hard time pulling me out of that listening room come closing time. I wish they still offered the ERR speaker. It sounds like a good fit for me, but I am leaning towards the MG944. Still, I am concerned about a lack of power out of the Taboo and would hate to have to use my Onkyo to drive my new speakers. 

First, I have to decide on a DAC and whether I should spend money on a balanced cable from Audeze or Toxic. I still have a couple months, but I am pretty indecisive. I still haven't given up the possibility of the LCD3.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> They would have a hard time pulling me out of that listening room come closing time. I wish they still offered the ERR speaker. It sounds like a good fit for me, but I am leaning towards the MG944. Still, I am concerned about a lack of power out of the Taboo and would hate to have to use my Onkyo to drive my new speakers.
> 
> First, I have to decide on a DAC and whether I should spend money on a balanced cable from Audeze or Toxic. I still have a couple months, but I am pretty indecisive. I still haven't given up the possibility of the LCD3.


 
   
  We'll have to find some time soon when you can listen to my Taboo + LCD-3 (at least before I sell the LCD-3).  Maybe we can organize a very small meet.  I know I'll need to get back together with Nick Dangerous soon as he and I swapped rectifiers at the Austin meet.  I'll touch base with Nick and see if we can't set something up.


----------



## Poladise

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> First, I have to decide on a DAC and whether I should spend money on a balanced cable from Audeze or Toxic.


 
   
  Using a balanced cable with the Taboo Mkiii just allows bypass of the Lucid mode.
  The power will be the same for both 1/4 inch and balanced XLR.


----------



## dminches

For me, it is the Lucid mode which makes the Taboo sound as good as it does.  I don't think Lucid mode is for everyone since it completely changes the sound stage.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

jazzerdave said:


> We'll have to find some time soon when you can listen to my Taboo + LCD-3 (at least before I sell the LCD-3).  Maybe we can organize a very small meet.  I know I'll need to get back together with Nick Dangerous soon as he and I swapped rectifiers at the Austin meet.  I'll touch base with Nick and see if we can't set something up.




Monday the 11th or Thursday the 14th works for me. C'mon by & I have an ample-sized community room here (where I host the Dallas Head-Fi meets). I'll also provide a demo of the Concero DAC. It isn't balanced, but if you need that the X-Sabre will do & has a similar sonic signature.


----------



## Frank I

According to UPS the amp is out for delivery so I will have it today. I am looking forward to the process and in a couple weeks DMinches will be here so we can compare the two Taboo amps and also use the csp2 with the mpa with and without. My review should take a good 4-5 weeks to complete.  The headphones I will use will be the LCDw2,LCD3,HD800,AT3000,Beyer 770 80 ohms so I have a pretty good variety of different cans to work with.


----------



## longbowbbs

Good thing it is in your area today, Frank. We're getting a ton of snow today. 10=12 inches between Madison and Chicago.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Good thing it is in your area today, Frank. We're getting a ton of snow today. 10=12 inches between Madison and Chicago.


 
  It left Chicago yesterday morning and our weather has not been bad. We  will have to meet up in  Madison in the fall.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Bratwurst is on me!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Bratwurst is on me!


 
  your on


----------



## Frank I

The Taboo has landed more pictures to come later


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Nice! Looking forward to your impressions, Frank.


----------



## Frank I




----------



## dminches

Frank, how about a top view?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Frank, how about a top view?


----------



## OPR8R

Thanks for posting these, Frank. It's beautiful. I cannot wait for mine.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Thanks for posting these, Frank. It's beautiful. I cannot wait for mine.


 
  Your very welcome.


----------



## dminches

Frank, are you starting with the stock tubes?  Hard to tell from the pics.


----------



## jazzerdave

Looks like he's already rolled rectifiers at least.
   
  I think I see a Sylvania 5Y3, and then I can't tell from there.  The other tube doesn't have the "Coke-bottle" shape.  RCA 5U4G perhaps?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Frank, are you starting with the stock tubes?  Hard to tell from the pics.


 
  I put the stock tubes back in for now. I need to listen to these for about 40-50 hrs and then switch. I had some JJ EL84 and a Bugle boy in the front with a 5U4G Sylvania just ot hear with different tubes. When you come over we can swap the tubes around and see what sounds best but I need to listen to stock for a few days then i will switch. i only have a pair of JJ EL84 though in house.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> Looks like he's already rolled rectifiers at least.
> 
> I think I see a Sylvania 5Y3, and then I can't tell from there.  The other tube doesn't have the "Coke-bottle" shape.  RCA 5U4G perhaps?


 
   
   
  Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> Looks like he's already rolled rectifiers at least.
> 
> I think I see a Sylvania 5Y3, and then I can't tell from there.  The other tube doesn't have the "Coke-bottle" shape.  RCA 5U4G perhaps?


 
  The stock tube is an american made tube labeled CBS and its a a 5U4GA the other tube I swapped in is a Sylvania 5U4G the taller coke bottle. I am using the stock for now,


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





frank i said:


> The stock tube is an american made tube labeled CBS and its a a 5U4GA the other tube I swapped in is a Sylvania 5U4G the taller coke bottle. I am using the stock for now,


 





   
  Great photos Frank!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Great photos Frank!


 
  Thanks Peter


----------



## Landmantx

jazzerdave said:


> We'll have to find some time soon when you can listen to my Taboo + LCD-3 (at least before I sell the LCD-3).  Maybe we can organize a very small meet.  I know I'll need to get back together with Nick Dangerous soon as he and I swapped rectifiers at the Austin meet.  I'll touch base with Nick and see if we can't set something up.




I would definitely be up for it on the 14th! The 11th I work until 6:00.


----------



## longbowbbs

Awesome Frank! Did you ask Steve to make the Maple base or was that his idea? I ordered maple for mine.


----------



## Skylab

Wow that looks very cool.  Nice, Frank!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Awesome Frank! Did you ask Steve to make the Maple base or was that his idea? I ordered maple for mine.


 
   
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Awesome Frank! Did you ask Steve to make the Maple base or was that his idea? I ordered maple for mine.


 
  Steve sent it that way.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Wow that looks very cool.  Nice, Frank!


 
  it is nice looking for sure.


----------



## Clayton SF

Nice, Frank, nice. Such a beauty with the new top plate and mA meters.
   
  Well done. Quote from Decware.com:
_*[size=larger][size=larger]In fact if not for Head-Fi's Frank J Iacone's request for a headphone jack on his Taboo, Head-Fi members may have never discovered the Taboo's potential with Planar Headphones!*__*[/size]*_[/size]


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> longbowbbs said:
> ...


 
  Maybe he sent you my Taboo...


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Nice, Frank, nice. Such a beauty with the new top plate and mA meters.
> 
> Well done. Quote from Decware.com:
> _*[size=larger][size=larger]In fact if not for Head-Fi's Frank J Iacone's request for a headphone jack on his Taboo, Head-Fi members may have never discovered the Taboo's potential with Planar Headphones!*__*[/size]*_[/size]


 
  Thanks Clayton


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Maybe he sent you my Taboo...


 
  Maybe it was yours LOL


----------



## Landmantx

Longbows will come nice and broken in!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> Longbows will come nice and broken in!


 
  yes indeed


----------



## longbowbbs

Hey now!....You guys are a great help!


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> I would definitely be up for it on the 14th! The 11th I work until 6:00.


 
   
  Texas Pinball Festival is coming up next weekend... but the 14th would work. Pretty much the only evening I have free next week.


----------



## longbowbbs

Well, I will be at Decware tomorrow at Noon Chicago time. I have had a couple of PM's with questions for Steve. Anything anyone would like me to ask, please post them here or PM me and I will post Steve's responses what I get back to hotel tomorrow night. It is a 6 hour round trip drive so I am likely to get back around 9 PM Chicago time tomorrow.


----------



## Lord Soth

Congrats Frank!
   
  The new Taboo really looks lovely.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Well, I will be at Decware tomorrow at Noon Chicago time. I have had a couple of PM's with questions for Steve. Anything anyone would like me to ask, please post them here or PM me and I will post Steve's responses what I get back to hotel tomorrow night. It is a 6 hour round trip drive so I am likely to get back around 9 PM Chicago time tomorrow.


 
  That's a long drive.  Hopefully the weather isn't too nasty.


----------



## HPDJ

Frank, is the base on your new Taboo Cherry or Maple??


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





hpdj said:


> Frank, is the base on your new Taboo Cherry or Maple??


 
  This unit has the maple base which us natural maple.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  If I just drove from home it would be a 16 hour round trip....I am looking forward to the day.


----------



## Landmantx

I'm jealous Longbow. This will probably be one of those days you never forget. Some people go visit the grand canyon, you go visit soundlabs!


----------



## supra1988t

I'm curious as to what DAC(s) Steve uses to test his gear if you don't mind asking. Thanks!


----------



## longbowbbs

Just got back to the hotel from a terrific trip to Decware. I'll post Pics and impressions as soon as I can get them organized. Short form is: I spent time with the original prototype for the new Taboo MK III, The Torii Mono's, All the speakers, Steve's LCD-2.2's and my HD800's. Met the amazing artisans who hand build all the amps. Met DeVon and Sarah and spent all afternoon one on one with Steve. What a privilege! A couple of things. The new black top is likely to happen for the CSP2+ this year. Steve uses a NOS DAC he made as well as a few others (Tascam, uDac-2). Gotta get the pics transferred......


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Just got back to the hotel from a terrific trip to Decware. I'll post Pics and impressions as soon as I can get them organized. Short form is: I spent time with the original prototype for the new Taboo MK III, The Torii Mono's, All the speakers, Steve's LCD-2.2's and my HD800's. Met the amazing artisans who hand build all the amps. Met DeVon and Sarah and spent all afternoon one on one with Steve. What a privilege! A couple of things. The new black top is likely to happen for the CSP2+ this year. Steve uses a NOS DAC he made as well as a few others (Tascam, uDac-2). Gotta get the pics transferred......


 
   
  Sounds like a pretty awesome day.


----------



## kskwerl

I feel very very very stupid asking this but how are you guys plugging headphones into the decwares?


----------



## kskwerl

Quote: 





kskwerl said:


> I feel very very very stupid asking this but how are you guys plugging headphones into the decwares?


 
  omg now i feel even worse because I didn't scroll down to the headphone amps


----------



## Argo Duck

^ that's ok. Actually, a suitable adapter is a perfectly feasible away to use speaker amps with headphones even if Steve *hadn't* been responsive to Frank I and Skylab some years ago.

Longbow, sounds like a completely awesome experience. Glad u got to meet the whole crew and spend so much time with Steve. Now it's too late, I can think of a couple of questions I should've given you!

Anyways, looking forward to your report. Nice work!


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Just got back to the hotel from a terrific trip to Decware. I'll post Pics and impressions as soon as I can get them organized. Short form is: I spent time with the original prototype for the new Taboo MK III, The Torii Mono's, All the speakers, Steve's LCD-2.2's and my HD800's. Met the amazing artisans who hand build all the amps. Met DeVon and Sarah and spent all afternoon one on one with Steve. What a privilege! A couple of things. The new black top is likely to happen for the CSP2+ this year. Steve uses a NOS DAC he made as well as a few others (Tascam, uDac-2). Gotta get the pics transferred......


 
  A U-DAC 2 !!!!???
   
  I'm using one too in my non-serious ( ok .... Semi - Serious) rig.
   
  I always had a high regard for the Little NuForce DAC .
   
  am glad to hear that the folks at Decware use one too.


----------



## kskwerl

these amps are absolutely stunning, can anyone comment on the Taboo MKIII and the LCD-2 rev.2? I had previously only used the LCD-2's with the Schiit Lyr and some stock GE's that came with it.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ the MkIII only just starting to come off the production line - might be a tad early to ask for impressions!

I can tell you the Mk II and LCD-2 *rev 1* is a stunning combination though. The rev 1's "dark" character is largely overcome by the Taboo II's extended highs and great dynamics. The bass is prominent but clean, textured and detailed. If there is one area where the Audez'es need quality amping, it's there - as I'm sure you know.

Actually, the mids are pretty darn good too!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





kskwerl said:


> these amps are absolutely stunning, can anyone comment on the Taboo MKIII and the LCD-2 rev.2? I had previously only used the LCD-2's with the Schiit Lyr and some stock GE's that came with it.


 
  I believe other than Steve, I am the only person to have heard this combo. I liked it very much. However, since it was my first experience with the LCD-2.2's I will wait until Frank's review before I comment any further. Thumbs up from me though.


----------



## Landmantx

I am sure that this amp is going to blow away that peice of schiit . Of course the price is substantially higher. 

Glad to hear that you were impressed. So you didn't cancel your order? I was hoping to move up one spot to page 2 on the build order sheet! 

I am pretty much convinced I am going with the LCD 2 or 3 with this bad boy. Still contemplating my DAC selection and stock vs upgraded cabling. I typically don't buy into all that vodoo science, but I also read all these people swear that one cable is significantly better than the next and it makes me wonder.


----------



## Landmantx

I am sure that this amp is going to blow away that peice of schiit . Of course the price is substantially higher. 

Glad to hear that you were impressed. So you didn't cancel your order? I was hoping to move up one spot to page 2 on the build order sheet! 

I am pretty much convinced I am going with the LCD 2 or 3 with this bad boy. Still contemplating my DAC selection and stock vs upgraded cabling. I typically don't buy into all that vodoo science, but I also read all these people swear that one cable is significantly better than the next and it makes me wonder.


----------



## Landmantx

Also, please give your overall listening impression of the different speakers, if you dont mind going off head-fi topic a bit. This is a Decware appreciation thread, right? Start appreciatin'!!!


----------



## longbowbbs

Review is Up:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/654644/a-visit-to-decware


----------



## kskwerl

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Review is Up:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/654644/a-visit-to-decware


 
  Sick review! So jealous!


----------



## longbowbbs

Thanks! It was a fun day.


----------



## kskwerl

longbowbbs said:


> Thanks! It was a fun day.




Makes me what one of these badly! What's the lead time to get one of these?


----------



## Landmantx

I am guessing it is a bit over 3 months based on the fact that page 4 of the waiting list is almost full. I am still on page three so who knows. I'll get it when I get it I guess. I pretty much check on the build order list daily just to see how I am moving up. Obsessive? Maybe


----------



## Landmantx

I won't lie, the $200 discount got me to go ahead and do it. I had been considering lower end alternatives primarily, then this came out and I had a sense that it was going to be a game changer! Not to mention the ability to power some speakers at some point in the near future.


----------



## jazzerdave

I don't actually use my Taboo to power my speakers (also Decware), but it does a fine job.  I've got a highly modified 35 watt tube amp that I let do the heavy lifting, but I'd be happy to let my Taboo do the job if I weren't such a gear hoarder.


----------



## OPR8R

I only wish I had experience with other amps in this class.  I have no idea what to expect compared to the amps I have.


----------



## Landmantx

Jazzerdave,

In my mind I have already bought the HR-1 and Zen Tori combo. Too bad my light wallet can't keep up with my vivid imagination. 

Let me know if we can have a little mini-meet on Thursday, I would love to come sample your gear and whatnot.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> In my mind I have already bought the HR-1 and Zen Tori combo. Too bad my light wallet can't keep up with my vivid imagination.


 
   
  +1.....Man those Monos were awesome!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> +1.....Man those Monos were awesome!


 
  write the check


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  ...Bad influence!.....


----------



## longbowbbs

Nice deal on Audiogon for a CSP2+...
   
  http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tube-decware-csp2-plus-zen-triode-otl-headphone-amp-2013-03-05-preamplifiers-37716-clinton-tn


----------



## Argo Duck

Showed the Taboo III webpage to a colleague at one of the sites I work, pointing out the temptation of the introductory $200 discount. Unimpressed, she said "but how much do you have to pay to get this discount?".

Quite a lot, I admitted, present commitments considered. Then I was struck by a happy thought - if I still pay for but don't actually *go* to my daughter's lavish overseas wedding, I will have make a substantial saving...

Somehow, word of this got back to my daughter. My wife tells me she has promised two things: (1) upon its arrival, I will be soundly hit over the head with said Taboo mk III; (2) she will personally track down each and every head-fier who has even remotely played a part in this purchase, and bring down a similar punishment on their (your?) heads.

My daughter is charming, but like her mother she keeps her promises. All considered, I think for all our sakes I better go to the wedding!


----------



## longbowbbs

I say you photoshop yourself into all the wedding photos and get the Taboo....


----------



## Argo Duck

^ ha ha ha - perfectly possible as I'm booked to do some of the wedding photos... but wait, I'd have to be there to take them...hmm, needs more thought


----------



## Nick Dangerous

longbowbbs said:


> Nice deal on Audiogon for a CSP2+...
> 
> http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tube-decware-csp2-plus-zen-triode-otl-headphone-amp-2013-03-05-preamplifiers-37716-clinton-tn




Yow that's a killer deal! Whoever buys this be sure to have the seller ship it back to Decware first (and include the $75 warranty transfer fee) so it can be recertified for the new buyer.


----------



## longbowbbs

Good price and no 12 week wait!


----------



## supra1988t

Yes, great price.  It appears that unit is without a headphone jack though.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





supra1988t said:


> Yes, great price.  It appears that unit is without a headphone jack though.


 
   
  Oops. Still... since it has to be sent back to Decware in order to transfer the lifetime warranty and be recertified, it would be a perfect opportunity to have one added.


----------



## longbowbbs

There is a headphone jack on the right rear next to the RCA jacks. This is a classic CSP2+ without the added front HP jack.


----------



## Landmantx

I wish I could swing it, but I have a mission to complete right now. All my pennies are being rolled towards the ear cannons!


----------



## kskwerl

That's awesome you got your review on the front of head-fi!


----------



## longbowbbs

Very nice! I have no idea how that happens.


----------



## Frank I

Just to bring everyone up to date on what is happening with my Decware Taboo review. The first unit I had on hand there was an issue with the amplifier in that when it was built they put a 100 ohm resistor instead of a 1ohm resistor so the volume is not getting very loud. Steve  Deckert has rectified this and is shipping a 2nd production sample amp to me today and will be here Thursday. On Saturday DMinches is joining me with a friend at my home for a shoot out. He bringing the original Taboo and the OTL Glenn built for him and Zheng is bringing a Woo 6SE. We will be comparing all the amps with the amps on hand. There will be LCD2.2,LCD3,AT3000ANV and HD800 primarily used for the mini meet.   We will also be using the CSP2 and the Violectric V200.
   
  I will post some pictures and everyones impressions on Monday with some initial comments and followup with a full blown review in about 3-4weeks from there. I am looking foward to the meeting on Saturday and the rest of my review process.


----------



## Skylab

That sounds like a fun time!!!!


----------



## Argo Duck

Frank! I thought you were being commendably restrained, posting no impressions until you were sure 

And all this time it was a wrong part lol!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





skylab said:


> That sounds like a fun time!!!!


 
  I am really looking forward to this and mores so it been a while since i seen David and Zheng


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Frank! I thought you were being commendably restrained, posting no impressions until you were sure
> 
> And all this time it was a wrong part lol!


 
  LOL I will post some impression after the mini meet and also there will be some other excellent people here to post their impressions and other amps to compare this new amp with.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





frank i said:


> LOL I will post some impression after the mini meet and also there will be some other excellent people here to post their impressions and other amps to compare this new amp with.


 

  Looking forward to it, Frank! Would be great to hear that "no, you don't really need to buy the DNA Stratus to make your LCD-3 sound good through a tube amp."


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> Looking forward to it, Frank! Would be great to hear that "no, you don't really need to buy the DNA Stratus to make your LCD-3 sound good through a tube amp."


 
  Resist the urge LOL. The Stratus is nice looking for sure and the tubes are a small fortune but does look interesting but 2600.00 for me right now is not in the picture.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Just to bring everyone up to date on what is happening with my Decware Taboo review. The first unit I had on hand there was an issue with the amplifier in that when it was built they put a 100 ohm resistor instead of a 1ohm resistor so the volume is not getting very loud. Steve  Deckert has rectified this and is shipping a 2nd production sample amp to me today and will be here Thursday. On Saturday DMinches is joining me with a friend at my home for a shoot out. He bringing the original Taboo and the OTL Glenn built for him and Zheng is bringing a Woo 6SE. We will be comparing all the amps with the amps on hand. There will be LCD2.2,LCD3,AT3000ANV and HD800 primarily used for the mini meet.   We will also be using the CSP2 and the Violectric V200.
> 
> I will post some pictures and everyones impressions on Monday with some initial comments and followup with a full blown review in about 3-4weeks from there. I am looking foward to the meeting on Saturday and the rest of my review process.


 
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> That sounds like a fun time!!!!


 
  Wish I could be there!


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Hey CSP+ owners... anyone else give the Valve Art 274B rectifier a try? I'm auditioning one from cryoset.com. Nice tube. Doesn't quite eclipse my current favorite RCA 5Y3GT, but it does some fun things unique to this variety.
   
  Most significantly, the soundstage has taken on a greater 3D sense of spaciousness. It has a certain shimmery quality to it... guitar strings and voices are rendered more delicately than the straight-up visceral tone of the RCA. But overall I prefer the slightly deeper bass and rock-and-roll tone of the RCA, so it stays. But I'll keep the Valve Art for future forays into outer space.
   
  Now if I could get the tone, bass, *and* spaciousness in one... hmmmm..... rollin' rollin' rollin' the glass...


----------



## longbowbbs

I just ordered one. I will post once I have it in hand!


----------



## Landmantx

Good find Nick. I may pick one up. Super affordable.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> Hey CSP+ owners... anyone else give the Valve Art 274B rectifier a try? I'm auditioning one from cryoset.com. Nice tube. Doesn't quite eclipse my current favorite RCA 5Y3GT, but it does some fun things unique to this variety.
> 
> Most significantly, the soundstage has taken on a greater 3D sense of spaciousness. It has a certain shimmery quality to it... guitar strings and voices are rendered more delicately than the straight-up visceral tone of the RCA. But overall I prefer the slightly deeper bass and rock-and-roll tone of the RCA, so it stays. But I'll keep the Valve Art for future forays into outer space.
> 
> Now if I could get the tone, bass, *and* spaciousness in one... hmmmm..... rollin' rollin' rollin' the glass...


 
  Steve sent me one with the Taboo Mk111. it seemed oK but the Hytron 5U4GA is better as is the Sylvania 5U4G my favorite rectifier with the taboo amps and also my first choice with the csp2. Valve Art is a branded Shuguang tube. Made in China and also they brand some Ruby tubes all made by shuguang. The 274B has been on the market now for a few years under the Valve art brand.  Try the Sylvania 5U4G for the bass and tone it also has a big sense of air making it my go to rectifier


----------



## OPR8R

It's good there is so much CSP+/Taboo experience out there already. When the MKIII comes, it will be my first foray into tube amps, so I'm clueless about this whole rolling thing. Stuff like "Hytron 5U4GA is better as is the Sylvania 5U4G" is exactly what I'm hoping to see here.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> It's good there is so much CSP+/Taboo experience out there already. When the MKIII comes, it will be my first foray into tube amps, so I'm clueless about this whole rolling thing. Stuff like "Hytron 5U4GA is better as is the Sylvania 5U4G" is exactly what I'm hoping to see here.


 
  Plenty of opinions will be given there are some people really rolling tubes for the Decware stuff. I also have another Phillips rectifier on its way so I will be using 4 or five different ocmbos in my review when it completed and there are so many great tubes for these amps and they can be found for not-much money


----------



## Landmantx

We are all also waiting on Frank's coming magnum opus. Let's not forget that little peice of fine literature that is still in the works. Hopefully, it will confirm that I am a lucky hi-fi'er for taking advantage of the $200 pre-sale. If not, we will all have the most beautiful doorstop ever created . I am getting so anxious to get it in, I can hardly contain myself. I will probably have to start making way for it soon. Still undecided about pretty much everything except the Pendragons. Still can't decide on cans. I have moments where I go back to the LCD and moments where I flip to the beauty of the TH900 then moments where I desire the HD800s. Then, I will wonder if I should sample the T1 first. Then I get tired head and don't make any decision.


----------



## OPR8R

So much to look forward to: we've got Frank's review of the Mark III, and the Mark III itself. It seems like a lot of these tubes are pretty inexpensive while others are harder to find and more expensive. I'm most curious to see how much difference they make in sound. This could be lots of fun. As far as cans go, I'm pretty happy (really enthralled) w/my LCD's, but based on what I read of the Fostex's and the Senns, it doesn't sounds like you'd be unhappy either way, Landmantx.


----------



## Argo Duck

The T1 works great with CSP2 and good with Taboo II. Nowhere near as good all-round as my LCD 2.1 however.

Fwiw, purrin found some pretty untidy CSD measurements with the T1s he was able to test, whereas lcd2 and especially 3 and the hd800 are much cleaner.

I still find T1 pretty good. It gave a much better 'performance' of some solo Bach violin material a couple of weeks ago, much more passionate than the relaxed LCD. Ironically, this may have been thanks to the t1's apparent greater proneness to ringing!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> So much to look forward to: we've got Frank's review of the Mark III, and the Mark III itself. It seems like a lot of these tubes are pretty inexpensive while others are harder to find and more expensive. I'm most curious to see how much difference they make in sound. This could be lots of fun. As far as cans go, I'm pretty happy (really enthralled) w/my LCD's, but based on what I read of the Fostex's and the Senns, it doesn't sounds like you'd be unhappy either way, Landmantx.


 
  They will be very noticeable on Decware amps. Do remember when you do roll leave tube you installed in a few day to see if you like the way the amp sounds with those tubes. Some people get neurotic and swap like crazy and never give themselves a chance ego see if they like the tube thats in there. usually when I find a combo I like I leave that in for sometimes months and then swap around again.  There may be a eexceoption a ssome tubes you wont like right away and want them out but for most NOS European tubes they all sound very good with slight differences.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Great advice Frank. In my Lyr days (all of two years ago lol!) I made the mistake of not giving tubes time.


----------



## OPR8R

Thanks for the advice.  I'll make sure to keep it in mind.


----------



## Lord Soth

If you are patient  enough, NOS tubes should be seriously reviewed only after 48hrs.
   
  Beyond that, any further changes would be subtle at best.
   
  One exception to my personal general rule is the Military Bendix 6106 rectifier.
  it needs a few hundred hours before it really shines.
   
  For the CSP2+, the BRIMAR 5R4GY 'D' getter rectifier sounds best to me.
  The Philips 5R4GYS sold by Upscale Audio is slightly bested in the mids so it is still a great tube for those on a tight budget.
   
  I was so impressed that all my tube amps now have a BRIMAR rectifier in them.
  They seem to work very well with SE based tube amps.


----------



## MorbidToaster

I'd also chime in on saying to avoid the T1. I'd take any of the other cans you mentioned over it by a wide margin. I finally heard them and after owning an LCD 2, HD800, and extensively auditioning a TH900 I can safely say I'd never buy a T1. Not to mention the measurements cited a few posts earlier.


----------



## dminches

It is interesting, although not surprising, how differently people feel about headphones.
   
  2 weeks ago I had a change to spend time with T1s, HD800, LCD-2s and LCD-3s.  The only one I did not like were the HD800s.  I found the soundstage to be unnaturally wide.  I really felt like I was in a canyon.  While I am still partial to my LCD-3s, I have really started to like the T1s.  I don't find them exaggerated anywhere and except for the fact that they are lighter in bass than the LCD-3s, they are otherwise very pleasing.
   
  The associated amps were the old Taboo, new Taboo, Glenn's OTL and a Woo 6SE.
   
  I am just glad there are a lot of choices.


----------



## Landmantx

Even better question, for this pro-decware thread is how did the new Taboo stack up to the Woo in your opinion. It really isn't a huge price difference when you add in the extra power and the ability to power speakers as well. Is the performance gain noticeable???


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> I'd also chime in on saying to avoid the T1. I'd take any of the other cans you mentioned over it by a wide margin. I finally heard them and after owning an LCD 2, HD800, and extensively auditioning a TH900 I can safely say I'd never buy a T1. Not to mention the measurements cited a few posts earlier.


 
  I have owned the T1 twice and it is an excellent headphone and  very synergistic with both the CSP2 and the Taboo. I highly recommend the headphone.  It is a true flagship headphone and extremly transparent and I own the HD800,LCD2 and also the AT3000 ANV and certainly would not mind owning the T1 again.


----------



## dminches

They are both very nice amps with different characteristics.  I think I prefer the new Taboo with low impedance cans like the LCD-3s, but with high impedance cans I think the differences are less.  The new taboo is a bit more money though.  The 6SE is around $1100 while the taboo is over $1600.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dminches said:


> It is interesting, although not surprising, how differently people feel about headphones.
> 
> 2 weeks ago I had a change to spend time with T1s, HD800, LCD-2s and LCD-3s.  The only one I did not like were the HD800s.  I found the soundstage to be unnaturally wide.  I really felt like I was in a canyon.  While I am still partial to my LCD-3s, I have really started to like the T1s.  I don't find them exaggerated anywhere and except for the fact that they are lighter in bass than the LCD-3s, they are otherwise very pleasing.
> 
> ...


 
  I also remember when you were at my mini meet in 2011 you did not like the T1 when I owned them


----------



## dminches

No doubt that one's impression can be changed over time and with different amps.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Once upon a time, oh, let's say a decade ago... yours truly launched what was to be known as the THSP (Team Head Six Pack). It was a box of six tubes for the MG Head OTL amp. The THSP traveled across the USA to anyone willing to review all six tubes in their amp & mail to the next person. A free tube rolling excursion if you will. Fun fun!

I'm thinking of launching a new Team Decware Six Pack sometime soon. Anyone with a CSP or Taboo would be eligible to get on the list. The tubes will be rectifiers only... from 5Y3's to a cryo-treated 274B. As long as you are careful with the tubes and willing to review all six before mailing to the next person, you're good. Sound like fun, fellow Decware owners?


----------



## MorbidToaster

Well **** Nick now I have to buy a Decware.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> Once upon a time, oh, let's say a decade ago... yours truly launched what was to be known as the THSP (Team Head Six Pack). It was a box of six tubes for the MG Head OTL amp. The THSP traveled across the USA to anyone willing to review all six tubes in their amp & mail to the next person. A free tube rolling excursion if you will. Fun fun!
> 
> I'm thinking of launching a new Team Decware Six Pack sometime soon. Anyone with a CSP or Taboo would be eligible to get on the list. The tubes will be rectifiers only... from 5Y3's to a cryo-treated 274B. As long as you are careful with the tubes and willing to review all six before mailing to the next person, you're good. Sound like fun, fellow Decware owners?


 
   
  If you want, I'll be willing to contribute my EML 5U4G and a Bendix 6106.  I could bring them over at some point so they ship out together. 
   
  (Plus, I've got a bunch of foam on the way for packing.)


----------



## Landmantx

If everyone stuck $20.00 in the box as it went around we would have enough saved by the time it went full circle to buy wave 2 of Rectifiers. We could really get some great concensus by trying a good number of great tubes. Either way, I would be in as I am looking forward to doing some rolling.


----------



## Landmantx

Thanks for the input Frank. I just used a Monoprice optical cord from the AppleTV to the DAC. I was actually very impressed with its build quality. My interconnects will both be the new Decware shielded copper interconnects. The speakerwire just happens to be what I have right now. At some point I will have to spring for some better wire. Good wire is just so expensive and I will need two pretty good runs in my current setup. 

I think I am going to go with the peachtree DACiT for my starter DAC. It should be pretty good as it gets a lot of great reviews and it has a lot of input and placement flexibility. I have a lot of confidence in the Sabre setup due to Nick's Resonessence Concero. I would definitely get that one if it had a optical input. Someday it could be moved to a desktop or bedside rig.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

jazzerdave said:


> If you want, I'll be willing to contribute my EML 5U4G and a Bendix 6106.




Whoa. I understand the Bendix but the EML mesh?!? That's verrrry generous. Not a cheap tube & I'd feel bad if it broke on somebody else's watch. But the potential impressions would be good to corroborate.

At this point it looks like EML 5U4G, RCA 5Y3GT, USAF-596, Valve Art 274B cryo, Tung-Sol 5U4G, and Bendix 6106. This would be one seriously fun pack...


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> Whoa. I understand the Bendix but the EML mesh?!? That's verrrry generous. Not a cheap tube & I'd feel bad if it broke on somebody else's watch. But the potential impressions would be good to corroborate.
> 
> At this point it looks like EML 5U4G, RCA 5Y3GT, USAF-596, Valve Art 274B cryo, Tung-Sol 5U4G, and Bendix 6106. This would be one seriously fun pack...


 
   
  We might be getting to the point of too many tubes for people to test, but I've also got the Philips that's been mentioned that I could include.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

jazzerdave said:


> We might be getting to the point of too many tubes for people to test, but I've also got the Philips that's been mentioned that I could include.




OK cool. Let's keep it to six for tradition's sake. Six is a realistic maximum. I'll yank the Tung Sol 5U4G and we can deploy the Philips 5R4GYS in its place. That would cover a wonderful span of possibilities. 3 from my stable and 3 from yours... one exotic each, one mid-price each, and one value tube each. Perfect!


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> OK cool. Let's keep it to six for tradition's sake. Six is a realistic maximum. I'll yank the Tung Sol 5U4G and we can deploy the Philips 5R4GYS in its place. That would cover a wonderful span of possibilities. 3 from my stable and 3 from yours... one exotic each, one mid-price each, and one value tube each. Perfect!


 
   
  Sounds like a plan!


----------



## longbowbbs

My mighty 596 awaits the winner...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Seriously neat idea Nick!


----------



## Argo Duck

Yes a great idea - serious sharing of experience that lets people calibrate their own to others' impressions. Like a mini-meet but with more time.

Wish I could participate but being all the way over in New Zealand obviously rules this out. NM, great value for those of us looking on as we scrutinise your agreements and disagreements!!
Looking forward to progress and reports.

Thanks Nick.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> OK cool. Let's keep it to six for tradition's sake. Six is a realistic maximum. I'll yank the Tung Sol 5U4G and we can deploy the Philips 5R4GYS in its place. That would cover a wonderful span of possibilities. 3 from my stable and 3 from yours... one exotic each, one mid-price each, and one value tube each. Perfect!


 
  The Phillips is a terrific tube have one just ordered two more. they are worth it and really cool to look at and honestly Nick I wont spend 240.00 on the Mesh plates just rather deploy the same funds to some really special EL 84 with the same money I can get 4 really nice EL 84 where I believe I will get more bang for my bucks. I got the extra Philips because they will dry up and new ones will get expensive so good for resale IMO. Upscale raised the price 15.00 per tube because they are getting scare on ebay and selling got the same price but Kevin Deal are all new and he very re[utable.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

New thread regarding the TDSP:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/657946/calling-all-decware-csp-taboo-owners-sign-up-to-roll-the-team-decware-six-pack


----------



## longbowbbs

Well, I spent some time with the Valve Art 274B in the CSP2+...$13! nice tube for cheap. But I switched back to the USAF-596 today and no question, it kills the 274B. Tighter bass and wider soundstage. Still, for the money and availability the 274B is a good deal.


----------



## Nyvar

The USAF-596 is, though I've never heard it, is becoming an obsession.  I pray to God it does not play well with my set up.  If it did I would spend hours a day combing the web trying to hunt one down.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





nyvar said:


> The USAF-596 is, though I've never heard it, is becoming an obsession.  I pray to God it does not play well with my set up.  If it did I would spend hours a day combing the web trying to hunt one down.


 
  I grabbed a few during some group buys....I never want to be without one..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  BTW, how do you like your DM945's?


----------



## Nyvar

> I never want to be without one..


 
   
  person.  
   
  I think the DM945s are great with the CSP2+ / Taboo and glorious with the CSP2+ and MK III.   I went with the Zus for an upgrade because the ERR are in the process of being redesigned, and I wasn't ready, nor do I have a space that would take advantage of the HR 1.  I was also able to get the Zu's at $900 off list off Audiogon direct from Zu because there's some imperceptible flaw in the finish.  (Haven't found it yet.) 
   
  If it helps put things in perspective, though they're not hooked up at the moment, I have no intention of selling them.  Rather when I have the space I'll pick up a 2nd CSP2+ and build a smaller set up using the CSP2+, Taboo, and DM945s.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





nyvar said:


> > I never want to be without one..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 




   
  Which Zu's did you get?


----------



## Nyvar

The Soul Superfly


----------



## OPR8R

So, I go to check the status of my package and for the first time ever I see there's an exception.  Apparently the train my amp was on derailed.  I don't know why a package from IL (on its way to CA) went to NM, but needless to say, it won't arrive tomorrow as expected.  I checked the news and I guess it happened last Friday but they didn't update the status until today.  I have a bad feeling about this.  I'm so sad


----------



## jazzerdave

I really hope your amp is okay.  It looked like some of the cars weren't damaged that much.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> So, I go to check the status of my package and for the first time ever I see there's an exception.  Apparently the train my amp was on derailed.  I don't know why a package from IL (on its way to CA) went to NM, but needless to say, it won't arrive tomorrow as expected.  I checked the news and I guess it happened last Friday but they didn't update the status until today.  I have a bad feeling about this.  I'm so sad


 
  Nasty! We take Fedex/UPS so much for granted.....I hope everything is OK and your amp arrives soon!


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> I really hope your amp is okay.  It looked like some of the cars weren't damaged that much.


 
   


longbowbbs said:


> Nasty! We take Fedex/UPS so much for granted.....I hope everything is OK and your amp arrives soon!


 
   
   
  Thanks, guys.


----------



## Argo Duck

Yes, Decware pack _very, very_ well - double boxed, lots of bubble-wrap. Two of two amps survived their long (no doubt rough in parts) journey to me in New Zealand without problem, not to mention many others around the world.

I think there's a good chance your amp will be fine - really hoping so.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Yes, Decware pack _very, very_ well - double boxed, lots of bubble-wrap. Two of two amps survived their long (no doubt rough in parts) journey to me in New Zealand without problem, not to mention many others around the world.
> 
> I think there's a good chance your amp will be fine - really hoping so.


 
   
  Thanks for the encouraging words in this dark time.
   
  In case anyone is interested, I did a little more research and found this.
   
http://domino.bnsf.com/website/updates.nsf/updates-service-consumer/F3EF9E71177A3C4D86257B52001C3B1D?Open
   
  Apparently the derailment happened back on the 17th.  I'm hoping this means my Taboo is safe but slow (a day or so).


----------



## Frank I

Decware Taboo MKIII Headphone Amplifier Review For anyone who has not seen the link


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Decware Taboo MKIII Headphone Amplifier Review For anyone who has not seen the link


 
  Reading that, and seeing the pictures helps a lot with my rail issues.  Thanks.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> So, I go to check the status of my package and for the first time ever I see there's an exception.  Apparently the train my amp was on derailed.  I don't know why a package from IL (on its way to CA) went to NM, but needless to say, it won't arrive tomorrow as expected.  I checked the news and I guess it happened last Friday but they didn't update the status until today.  I have a bad feeling about this.  I'm so sad


 
  I am sorry about your issue. I didn't see your thread and  I am surpirsed that UPS used the railroad for delivery. i thought they shipped everything UPS ground. Decware insures all their deliveries and will send you a new one if your is damaged. i would contact Devon and let her know what is going on. I know it will all work out well for you.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I am sorry about your issue. I didn't see your thread and  I am surpirsed that UPS used the railroad for delivery. i thought they shipped everything UPS ground. Decware insures all their deliveries and will send you a new one if your is damaged. i would contact Devon and let her know what is going on. I know it will all work out well for you.


 
  Thanks, Frank.  I just checked and they updated the status again.  My amp's in San Pablo, CA.  Unless something weird happens again, I should get it tomorrow.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Thanks, Frank.  I just checked and they updated the status again.  My amp's in San Pablo, CA.  Unless something weird happens again, I should get it tomorrow.


 
  Good for you. I guess it want on the train after all


----------



## OPR8R

My new Taboo MKIII came.  Just got it hooked up an listened to a couple songs out of both my Mac Mini and Rega RP6.  So far, so good.  My LCD2's are pleased.  Initially, I'm pretty impressed with the clarity of this Decware, and it's a pretty small amp to be making so much sound.  Looking forward to some quality time tonight (and into tomorrow morning).
   
  So long Kenwood KR-6030.  You served me well.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ great news. All intact and not a scratch too, it seems.

Just wait 'til you get more time with it...I'm pretty sure you'll be amazed the new things you notice here and there in old tracks


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> ^ great news. All intact and not a scratch too, it seems.
> 
> Just wait 'til you get more time with it...I'm pretty sure you'll be amazed the new things you notice here and there in old tracks


 
   
  By the looks of it, my amp wasn't involved in the accident at all.
   
  I let it run for a couple hours while I worked.  Then I let it sit for an hour.  Then I quit work early to listen a little more.  This amp is quite good.  I'm having a lot of fun


----------



## Argo Duck

^  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Interested in your impressions too as they develop


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Congrats OPR8R! It will get better after you get passed 50-100 hours....Things really settle in nicely!


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Congrats OPR8R! It will get better after you get passed 50-100 hours....Things really settle in nicely!


 
  Thanks!
   
  I read that "50+ hours burn-in" somewhere else too and was a little surprised.  I don't doubt it though.  I'm expecting it to take a while, especially since I opted for the V-caps, but it already sounds different (better) than it did a couple days ago.


----------



## Landmantx

Strike up the band! My Taboo and my HD800s showed up today. That effectively ends my trail of tears waiting on all my goodies until I place my speaker order!


----------



## Argo Duck

Congrats Landmantx  Looking forward to your impressions. What dac did you decided to start with?


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Congrats Landmantx  Looking forward to your impressions. What dac did you decided to start with?


 
   
  I believe he has the Peachtree DACiT, but I could be mistaken.


----------



## Argo Duck

Ha (bangs head)! You're right. I should've thought to look at his profile first


----------



## Landmantx

Yes, I really liked the Sabre sound with the HD800s. The Peachtree is a great value and offers optical in. I am sure there are better options, but it will be a long while before I go exploring.


----------



## jazzerdave

Well, I was going off memory, so I didn't think of that either. No need to bang your head.


----------



## Argo Duck

Oh I don't know - sometimes it seems to help...sometimes others do it for me :-D

Jazzerdave, slightly OT - what did you think of piano reproduction when you had the LCD3s? (I used to play a lot of classical. Not so much these days).


----------



## dminches

I am selling my Taboo MKII is anyone is interested.  I really love it but I have too many amps.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I am selling my Taboo MKII is anyone is interested.  I really love it but _*I have too many amps.*_


 
  Oh, boy, can I relate to that!


----------



## jeust0999

I am undecided between the mini-torii and taboo. How does these two compare exclusively for the LCD-2?


----------



## Argo Duck

At last asking, about a year ago, no-one had directly compared. From separate reports though, both work very well with LCDs according to owners of each.

Worth thinking about is that taboo just got made over _specifically_ for LCD *and* an introductory discount may still be running *and* new owners in the Taboo III thread find it works well with other phones too.

Of course both amps run speakers as well.

Steve Deckert seems to be refreshing many of his amps. Could be worth asking (phone him - he's not so good with email enquiry) whether the MT is among them.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I am selling my Taboo MKII is anyone is interested.  I really love it but I have too many amps.


 
  Hmmmm....(Struggling with this concept....)  What? 
   
  Just because you have two other DREAM amps (Leben/SLI-80) why would you sell this one?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Someone will get a nice unit without a three month wait!


----------



## dminches

Actually, Eric, I have 3 - Leben, SLI-80 and Glenn's OTL.  The Taboo makes 4.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Actually, Eric, I have 3 - Leben, SLI-80 and Glenn's OTL.  The Taboo makes 4.


 
  Only 4( 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 )....and you don't have room for the Taboo....It is the smallest amp you have!
   
  Great collection David! I see an F1 is up on AGon.....


----------



## Argo Duck

*dminches*, I'd be interested in what you found are the strengths and weaknesses of the Taboo versus the others...

TIA


----------



## longbowbbs

Frank is working on his Stratus review and feels the Taboo hangs with it no problem....I like that!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Frank is working on his Stratus review and feels the Taboo hangs with it no problem....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Great... Always something else to save up for!


----------



## snapontom

Decware has a new product, a switcbox.  I need it.  I see that they offer capacitors to get rid of DC current.  The site didn't say what the benifits are of getting rid of DC current.  And I sure don't know.  I like that it is heavy so it will stay in place and Steve drew up some diagrams of how it can be used.  Will order it tomorrow.


----------



## longbowbbs

I got the e-mail as well. Nice product if you have more than 2 sources for your CSP2+ or Taboo MK III.


----------



## pebpeb

Happy Decware owner here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I've had the CSP2 and Taboo for 4 years...
   
  The Taboo was sent in for the Hazen-grid mod, but no headphone output yet
   
  The CSP2 is a workhorse in my system....lots of headphone time and sometimes pre-amp in my 2channel rig
  I sent the CSP2 in for the stepped attenuator, and I am thinking about sending in for the Jupiter caps
   
  I am using 1950's 5U4G, (2) Mullard CV4109, and Telefunken E88CC in the CSP2
   
  the Taboo has Mullard 5Z3, stock SV83 output, and Telefunken 12AU7 or Siemens 12AT7
   
  I would really like save-up for the headphone output for the Taboo, and some Audeze LCD-3's
  also would like to demo the Taboo with some Zu speakers or Decware speakers
   
  currently, use Hornshoppe Horns + Cube sub with the Taboo....but, sits on the sidelines, because I am enamored with my Magnepan 1.7's


----------



## snapontom

I ordered the Decware switch box with the capacitors, even though I don't know the benefit of having  caps.  No DC current, but what does that do for the sound?, I don't know.   I will input a DAC, receiver, and phonostage into the switchbox and output to the CSP2+.  I can run the other output to my Bob Latino Dynaco ST-120 if I need.  My CSP2+ is a preamp for a powered sub woofer too.  On second thought, I'll run the phonostage directly into the CSP2+'s other input RCAs.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





snapontom said:


> I ordered the Decware switch box with the capacitors, even though I don't know the benefit of having  caps.  No DC current, but what does that do for the sound?, I don't know.   I will input a DAC, receiver, and phonostage into the switchbox and output to the CSP2+.  I can run the other output to my Bob Latino Dynaco ST-120 if I need.  My CSP2+ is a preamp for a powered sub woofer too.  On second thought, I'll run the phonostage directly into the CSP2+'s other input RCAs.


 
   
  Caps might add a touch of warmth.


----------



## Argo Duck

May be warmth, but AFAIK there's also a safety aspect - for your drivers I mean. Pure DC coupled amps - meaning no cap or other protection - could mean your speakers got damaged when/if upstream equipment got switched on. At clipping, pure DC gets passed through too. Either way, your sensitive drivers - which spend most of their time running at (much) less than a watt (speakers) - could suffer a large excursion that results in physical damage. Not good for future performance.

The flip side is that introducing a cap might reduce SQ, as in 'another component in the signal path'.

BTW please take with a grain of salt. All this is vaguely remembered stuff I read and heard years ago when I first got into speakers. One of my audiophile friends is an EE, but most of what he used to say back then went over my head! And, there may be other reasons for using and not using caps too, such as jazzerdave suggests.

I have no idea how or whether this applies with headphones.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> May be warmth, but AFAIK there's also a safety aspect - for your drivers I mean. Pure DC coupled amps - meaning no cap or other protection - could mean your speakers got damaged when/if upstream equipment got switched on. At clipping, pure DC gets passed through too. Either way, your sensitive drivers - which spend most of their time running at (much) less than a watt (speakers) - could suffer a large excursion that results in physical damage. Not good for future performance.
> 
> The flip side is that introducing a cap might reduce SQ, as in 'another component in the signal path'.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I believe you're correct on your points, but for a switching box safety shouldn't really be as big of concern.  All of that should be in the final amplifier (if it's not, the switch box being safer won't make a lick of difference).  As with your qualifications, I'm not an EE, but my brother is.  I run these things by him, but there's always a chance I'm not asking the right questions (or he's not fully paying attention to them).


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Duh - good point!!


----------



## longbowbbs

DM945's are in the house!


----------



## Argo Duck

Congrats Eric. Looking good. Should we let you have some time with them before demanding impressions? :evil:


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> DM945's are in the house!


 
   
  Sweet!!


----------



## longbowbbs

Thanks Andre! yeeeeesssss...I do need a bit of break in time. They image like crazy and the CSP2+/Taboo MK III combo pushes them with authority. I'll need a few weeks to let them settle in then I'll post on them.


----------



## Argo Duck




----------



## tink97

Very nice longbowbbs, those look really nice


----------



## longbowbbs

About 10 hours on them...They are opening up very nicely!


----------



## longbowbbs

I hooked up my Definitive Tech Supercube 3 subwoofer to the mono output on the CSP2+ so I can crossover at 80hz. I am listening to Pink Floyd DSOTM on SACD. Holy Cr*p! This is 4 watts!!?? Totally 3 dimensional. I love my HD800's but no HP can do this.....
   
  Tonight's rig is:
   
  Denon DVD-5900>CSP2+ Pre-amp>Decware Taboo MK III amp> Decware DM945 speakers and Def Tech Supercube 3 sub.


----------



## Argo Duck

Excellent - great to hear you can get that much out of this rig Eric. Sounds like it's awesome 

(I think I need to replace the inefficient kefs I'm using. They sound good but 84dB/1W just doesn't let the music open up)


----------



## longbowbbs

I turned the volume up to about 50% and I would never listen that loud for long. Amazing.....


----------



## OPR8R

So, although I vowed to not be a wait list checker this time around, I had to check it to make sure there was nothing wrong with my order and that I made it on OK. I'm not really surprised but that 6th page is starting to fill out pretty well. It seems like Decware is doing well. Kudos, as it is well deserved.


----------



## longbowbbs

Are you making progress up the list?


----------



## OPR8R

longbowbbs said:


> Are you making progress up the list?




That's not what this is about!! 

Nah, I just hit the list the other day. It'll be a couple/few months. I'm not checking the list again until my parts get pulled!!


----------



## longbowbbs




----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


>


 
   
  Instead of making fun, you could be telling me about how good the CSP2+ is with the Taboo Mk3.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  As I sit here with a stack of 24/192 DVD-Audio discs on a rainy Saturday......
   
  It is a fantastic combination. I just listened to Alan Parsons "On Air" in DTS Audio with my Denon DVD-5900 and it was almost an out of body experience. Listened to the first half with the DM945's then the last with the HD800's....Nice to have choices....
   
  The Taboo is a great amp. The CSP2+ simply makes it better. The two are so complimentary. With the CSP2+ there is just more there.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> As I sit here with a stack of 24/192 DVD-Audio discs on a rainy Saturday......
> 
> It is a fantastic combination. I just listened to Alan Parsons "On Air" in DTS Audio with my Denon DVD-5900 and it was almost an out of body experience. Listened to the first half with the DM945's then the last with the HD800's....Nice to have choices....
> 
> The Taboo is a great amp. The CSP2+ simply makes it better. The two are so complimentary. With the CSP2+ there is just more there.


 
   




   
  Which tubes are you using up front on the CSP2+?


----------



## longbowbbs

The L/R output tubes are the stock Russian 6N1P's. The front is a Genalax Golden Lion 6922.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> The L/R output tubes are the stock Russian 6N1P's. The front is a Genalax Golden Lion 6922.


 
  Interesting.  I didn't realize it was good to mix them that way.  I have a spare Amperex Orange Globe that'll go to good use then.


----------



## longbowbbs

Steve actually endorsed the combo! The 6922 gives things a bit more punch. All 6N1P's are airier....


----------



## longbowbbs

So, I have had the Taboo MK III for a month now and I can safely say that it is a great amp. With the HD800's it provides great depth and punch. The detail is terrific.
   
  However, It is even better when paired with the CSP2+!
   
  The combo has so much authority; more substance. I have fun going from either unit individually, then back to the pair together. Both are individually strong with the HD800's. Together, they are hands down better.
   
  The combo has plenty of power to run the DM945's as well. I can't believe how loud 4 watts can be. 
   
  Fun times!


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> So, I have had the Taboo MK III for a month now and I can safely say that it is a great amp. With the HD800's it provides great depth and punch. The detail is terrific.
> 
> However, It is even better when paired with the CSP2+!
> 
> ...


 
  Very nice, my friend.  I'm coming up on a month with my Taboo as well, and feel the same way about mine.  I listen to it around 2 or 3 hours a day, and it never fails to make me smile.
   
  Despite how well you claim the CSP2+ and Taboo pair, I refuse to check the Wait List


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I admire your discipline!


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I admire your discipline!


 
  I failed.  I went to see if there might be any news on the CSP3+ and "mystery amp" and the next thing I knew I was looking at the wait list.  I dunno what happened.
   
  Anyway, it sounds like Steve is getting close to done with the mystery amp.  He says he likes it and is comparing it to the other TOR amps.  Looks like it won't be long now.


----------



## alpha421

I hope this Decware appreciation thread isn't limited to just their tube amps.  Props to Steve with his Zen Head portable amp.  It's a very well implemented amp.  I wonder if any of the past owners didn't open up the Zen Head to match with their equipment.  This is my second ownership and I remember my first one that I bought off the forums a few years back was all set low and I foolishly sold it because I thought it severely lacked dynamics (I realize now that the original owner must have had very sensitive headphones/earphones or happened to be a very low volume listener).  All it takes is a philips screwdriver and a flip of the toggle switch on the board to wake up the magic.  Looks like the price went up to $429 (gotta luv inflation).


----------



## OPR8R

alpha421 said:


> I hope this Decware appreciation thread isn't limited to just their tube amps.  Props to Steve with his Zen Head portable amp.  It's a very well implemented amp.  I wonder if any of the past owners didn't open up the Zen Head to match with their equipment.  This is my second ownership and I remember my first one that I bought off the forums a few years back was all set low and I foolishly sold it because I thought it severely lacked dynamics (I realize now that the original owner must have had very sensitive headphones/earphones or happened to be a very low volume listener).  All it takes is a philips screwdriver and a flip of the toggle switch on the board to wake up the magic.  Looks like the price went up to $429 (gotta luv inflation).


 
  
 I've always been curious about the portable Zen.  Glad to hear it's as good as their tube amps.  $429 isn't too much either.


----------



## longbowbbs

There was one in the for sale recently for $200....


----------



## Nyvar

New Torii MKIV is ready, and available until post ZenFest at the current cost of the Torii MKIII.  Despite owning a  CSP2+, Taboo II, and a Torii MKIII, I placed an order, and yeah gotta sell some stuff.  Thread on it is here.  Apparently Steve finds it very close to the Mystery Amp which will be debuted at ZenFest.  My MKIII is 4/8 and I really wanted 8/16 and was debating sending it for upgrade, but decided to go for the IV.   Now my secondary system will be built around the MKIII rather than the Taboo or mini Tori which was my other thought.    
  
 BTW if you order the MKIV now, hear the new Mystery Amp and want it, you retain your place in line and they'll just build the Mystery Amp instead.  Receive your Torii MKIV and then hear the mystery amp and are in lust?  Let them know in the first 30 days, they'll build you a Mystery Amp, and let you keep the MK IV until it's ready to ship.  That's the quality of customer service Decware offers.


----------



## OPR8R

nyvar said:


> New Torii MKIV is ready, and available until post ZenFest at the current cost of the Torii MKIII.  Despite owning a  CSP2+, Taboo II, and a Torii MKIII, I placed an order, and yeah gotta sell some stuff.  Thread on it is here.  Apparently Steve finds it very close to the Mystery Amp which will be debuted at ZenFest.  My MKIII is 4/8 and I really wanted 8/16 and was debating sending it for upgrade, but decided to go for the IV.   Now my secondary system will be built around the MKIII rather than the Taboo or mini Tori which was my other thought.
> 
> BTW if you order the MKIV now, hear the new Mystery Amp and want it, you retain your place in line and they'll just build the Mystery Amp instead.  Receive your Torii MKIV and then hear the mystery amp and are in lust?  Let them know in the first 30 days, they'll build you a Mystery Amp, and let you keep the MK IV until it's ready to ship.  That's the quality of customer service Decware offers.


 
  
 Steve isn't making it easy to stay off the list


----------



## Nyvar

No kiddin'.  Me, myself, and I had a long serious discussion.  The turning point was he reports on his late night listening with MKIV and the Mystery Amp.  Along with when one might suit you better than the other.  The upgrades sound phenomenal, and until he went and did this I was perfectly content, and lovin' my MKIII with Zu Soul Superfly.  Sigh.  Just when you think you'll be content for years ...


----------



## Argo Duck

Fortunately, I like living in the past  I just keep telling myself this was state of the art up to 2012...

Congrats on the order though Nyvar - Steve is obviously in a new creative phase and he makes his new amps awfully hard to resist


----------



## longbowbbs

nyvar said:


> No kiddin'.  Me, myself, and I had a long serious discussion.  The turning point was he reports on his late night listening with MKIV and the Mystery Amp.  Along with when one might suit you better than the other.  The upgrades sound phenomenal, and until he went and did this I was perfectly content, and lovin' my MKIII with Zu Soul Superfly.  Sigh.  Just when you think you'll be content for years ...


 
  
 I have never hear any Zu's I was looking at the Superfly's on their site. How are they with the Taboo's low wattage?


----------



## rivieraranch

The Zu's at 16 ohms are a little too high for the TABOO, however the 101 db sensitivity might make up for some of that.


----------



## longbowbbs

rivieraranch said:


> The Zu's at 16 ohms are a little too high for the TABOO, however the 101 db sensitivity might make up for some of that.


 
  
 Any thoughts on which Zu would pair well with the Taboo?


----------



## Nyvar

> Any thoughts on which Zu would pair well with the Taboo?


 
  
 Call and ask them.  The North American reps of Zu use Decware amps to demo them so they can probably give you some insight.


----------



## longbowbbs

nyvar said:


> > Any thoughts on which Zu would pair well with the Taboo?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Good plan!


----------



## Audio Addict

Decware's 2013 Zenfest was announced on their website today. It is October 4th, 5th and 6th. I hope to get over to it Friday or Saturday evening.


----------



## Audio Addict

*TORII MK IV  *


----------



## longbowbbs

Always loved the Torii! A work of audio art for sure!


----------



## Nyvar

And mine is on order, probably December delivery would be my guess.   My wallet is no longer speaking to me.


----------



## longbowbbs

nyvar said:


> And mine is on order, probably December delivery would be my guess.   My wallet is no longer speaking to me.


 
  
 Fine art is never inexpensive.


----------



## Audio Addict

nyvar said:


> And mine is on order, probably December delivery would be my guess.   My wallet is no longer speaking to me.


 
  
 It could have been worse, it could have been the new mystery amp


----------



## Nyvar

> It could have been worse, it could have been the new mystery amp


 
  
 My listening space is so small I couldn't justify it.  That and then I'd make me feel like I needed new speakers.  I had to draw the line somewhere.


----------



## longbowbbs

I am very curious about that Mystery amp. I wonder what it is and how much?


----------



## mwindham08

Found this photo from the decware forums, http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1378155174, thought I would share as it is beautiful!


----------



## Audio Addict

If anyone is interested, they posted some videos from the Decfest 2013
  
http://www.decware.com/newsite/zenfest2013.html


----------



## Nyvar

My Torii MKIV has gone from parts pulled to testing in 3 days. 1 day on the bench.  I'd love for it to arrive before Thanksgiving, but ain't holdin' my breath.


----------



## baronbeehive

Hi everyone! I've just enjoyed reading this entire thread, the reason being that I've been looking to find a tube amp with both headphone/speaker outs to rationalize my desktop. I currently have a Little Dot mkvi+ which I'm happy with for my HE-500's and having recently bought speakers I'm shifting more away from cans for main listening. I also bought a Miniwatt N3 temporarily, but the idea is to go for a Decware unit eventually, when the wallet recovers. (It is currently undergoing rescusitation). After hearing of Decware I found out about their integrated amp, the SE34I which brings me on to the reason for this post. I've heard brief mentions of the integrated amp in this thread but then nothing more comes of it, interesting though the Taboo is. So I would like to know if anyone has the integrated amp and what it's like compared to the Taboo. Looks like my options would be either of these as the MiniTorii no longer appears to have the headphone option. Thanks for any help you might be able to provide. Keep up the good work!


----------



## longbowbbs

I have never heard the Rachel. it does offer slightly more power than the Taboo.I have never heard a Decware amp that did not provide great quality for the price.


----------



## thegrobe

nyvar said:


> My Torii MKIV has gone from parts pulled to testing in 3 days. 1 day on the bench.  I'd love for it to arrive before Thanksgiving, but ain't holdin' my breath.




Keep your fingers crossed...My CSP3 I got awhile back was done surprisingly quickly, and shipped within a week of testing. You might get it by thanksgiving!


----------



## Nyvar

> Keep your fingers crossed...My CSP3 I got awhile back was done surprisingly quickly, and shipped within a week of testing. You might get it by thanksgiving!


 
  
 They are, but it would have to ship and be picked up by UPS by Friday of this week to make it.   However, fingers crossed, but at this point it's still gonna be sooner than I had originally expected.


----------



## thegrobe

I posted this over on the Decware forums, but for anyone who doesn't frequent that...here's some dummy plugs for your Decware gear. Especially useful with the vertical jacks that could catch a lot of dust over time. They are made by Neutrik, available at Mouser and I'm sure many other electronics sellers. # "NDF" fits the XLR jack, "NDP" fits the phono (RCA) jacks, "NDJ" fits the 1/4" Jacks.


----------



## Nyvar

Ah, well, didn't ship by Friday, though it moved to shipping department on Tuesday.  It's possible the tornados that devastated the area around them and left them w/o phone or internet for a couple days is the cause of the delay.  If it should ship Monday I'll be able to get it by Friday I think.  If not the following week.  I think waiting for it to ship, is perhaps the most difficult part of the wait.  I also just realized my order fell into the free Pelican case group, so MK IV, at MK III price plus Pelican case total savings of $800.


----------



## OPR8R

thegrobe said:


> I posted this over on the Decware forums, but for anyone who doesn't frequent that...here's some dummy plugs for your Decware gear. Especially useful with the vertical jacks that could catch a lot of dust over time. They are made by Neutrik, available at Mouser and I'm sure many other electronics sellers. # "NDF" fits the XLR jack, "NDP" fits the phono (RCA) jacks, "NDJ" fits the 1/4" Jacks.


 

 Brilliant!  Thanks, Craig.


----------



## negura

Folks I am going to start this post and it will be a long one. It's been promised for a while and it is the result of months of good old rollin'. Pictures first and I am sure you will know where I am going with this.
  
  
*Brimar 5R4GY*, Double D Getter, sometime 1950s, England

  
*Osram* *5U4G *(early milspec GEC U52 and arguably better), inverted cup, 1950s, England

  
*Sylvania 274B*, 1942, D Getter, Milspec

  
*RCA 5Y3GT*, double D Getter, 1952, black base

  
*USAF-596*, US Air Force version etc

  
*Gear used:*
 Decware Taboo MK3 (we all know this one) w. Amperex "Pinched Waist" 6922,  Amperex EL84s or 6P15P-ER milspec
 Ariand FV34-A (Single ended speakers amplifier), 2x12W, Psvane EL34
 Woo Wee (electrostatic headphones converter)
 Stax SR-009, Stax SR-007 MKI
 Custom made 96dB Front Loaded Horn Speakers (Fostex Full range)
  
*Music:*
 Stockfisch Reference Recordings (various genres: vocals, classical)
 Infected Mushrooms
 Pink Martini
 Leonard Cohen
 Katie Melua
 Pink Martini
  
*Introduction:*
 For several reasons the rectifiers have always been to me a fantastic and de-facto way to tweak the sound to my preference or system changes. Firstly these coincidently or not work with both my amplifiers (and soon to be 3) and also for this reason I found them a very worthwhile investement. It's an easy swap too. No need for gloves as there's a good base and a lot of the time there's only one. This is a comparison where I tried to be completely unbiased by the price. Some of the above are extremely rare and expensive, some less so and some are incredibly overlooked. But we all know everything is fair in audio. 
  
 Why these? I have a lot of rectifiers of this type and I feel the below represent the BEST of the best in my collection. They are all well burnt-in samples and sometimes I compared multiple samples of one. There are variations, but roughly within the same decade you'd probably be in the same ball park. The fact that I already selected these out of many different models, they are ALL already SO very good. This makes it sometimes super difficult to rate them, and obviously preferences play a signficant role. To try to hit an average I used two very different sounding amplifiers (Taboo MK3 - quite neutral, Ariand FV34A - classic tube sound), different coloration headphones, SR009s extremely neutral and the SR007 MKI warmer. The speakers are in between the headphones in tonal balance.
  
  
*Bass Impact/Weight:*
 Sylvania 274b > GEC/Osram U52 > RCA 5Y3GT >  USAF-596 > Brimar

*Bass Control & Tightness:*
 USFA-596 > Brimar > RCA 5Y3GT = Sylvania > Osram
 This was very difficult to assess because all of these are close. The bass quantity is plenty with all of them.
 I don't like bass weak tubes, and none of these is that. Also none of them really have flabby bass either.
 It is difficult to call a winner though. The bass driver control and added tightness can result in aparent reduced bass weight. This is why I wanted to separate the two sections. Overall when I wanted to choose one tube for the overall combination bass presence and quality it was either the RCA or Sylvania. If I want top control it is the USAF-596. All of them did a great job here.

*Male vocals (Tonality, Texture, Extension):*
 Sylvania 274B (WOW. To die for.) > GEC/OSRAM U52 (WOW Reloaded) = RCA 5Y3GT (WOW Incredible) > Brimar (Still WOW) > USAF596 ("Only" Excellent)
  
 All of these tubes are very special and excellent with mids. Was it not, any of them would have otherwise been excluded from this round-up. In this select company it is the Sylvania that comes first due to the most fantastic mids texture I have heard. I do not know how they were doing things back in 1942, but while retaining exceptional clarity the mids are smooth and with formidable texture and tone. This said it's almost unreal there is something better than the Osram (which is the milspec version of the famous GEC U52). This one is also extremely impresive. What I said regarding the Sylvania applies here as well.
  
*Female vocals (Tonality, Texture, Extension)*
 Osram > Sylvania 274B > RCA = USAF-596 > Brimar
  
 While I already had the ranking done from before, I wanted to try a few more songs and start from scratch last night. This time I started comparing the tubes in the reverse order of how I classed them with male vocals. The Brimar was very good but it turned out as the least impressive in this great company. It has excellent tonality, but the texture did the least for me. Again this is only compared to the others. Moving next to the USAF-596 - it was an immediate added sign of goose bumps on the test track: Pink Martini - Taya Tan. The texture and extension were both a step up. I long deliberated back and forth between the Sylvania and Osram with female vocals. They are exceptional and exceptionally close to each other, but a bit different: while Sylvania digs in deeper vocal detail with a bit better extension, I give a slight preference to Osram's texture and refinement.
  
*Treble Air/Clarity:*
 Sylvania > USAF-596 > Osram  > RCA > Brimar
  
*Treble Attack/Quantity:*
 Sylvania >  USAF-596 > Osram = RCA > USAF-596 > Brimar
  
 None of these is a bright sharp sounding tube. Yet there a differences. The only one that I feel coming a bit short in the treble department is the Brimar
 I really like the air and treble extension of the Sylvania and USAF-596. It makes these two tubes sound just a bit clearer than the others. However in the case of the USAF-596 there is something with the texture of the upper treble that does not sound as natural as the RCA, Sylvania or Osram.
 When it comes to overall treble quality with super air, extension and tone, it's the Sylvania that takes the prize.
 The Brimar was not going to win any prizes here. The treble has a slight rolloff, but not a deal breaker. Definetely nothing compared to some chinese production tubes. 

*Cold/Warm:*
 USAF-596 -> Sylvania -> Osram = RCA -> Brimar
  
*Speed:*
 USAF-596 > Sylvania > RCA = Osram > Brimar
  
*Clarity/transparency:*
 Sylvania 274b = USAF 596 > GEC/Osram U52 = RCA 5Y3GT > Brimar
  
*Soundstage size:*
 Sylvania 274B > USAF-596 > GEC/OSRAM U52 >  RCA GY3GT > Brimar
  
 The USAF-596 produces a very wide spacios soundstage. The Sylvania while still very wide in presentation, has additional height and depth. These two are the rectifiers for large scale orchestras and classical musical.
 The others are respectively more upfront with a gradually more intimate presentation that caters many modern genres and smaller ensembles even more.

*Conclusion:*
 Best overall you're saying? Firstly the obvious caveat is: This is a tube out of many in a component (or two) part of your system. I obviously can't provide the right answer for something I do not know. Second of all, preferences are anyone's. I always look for synergy and good balance, as no system is perfect or perfectly balanced. This is a reason I favour having some tube gear, as it facilitates fine tuning through tube rolling. For my almost neutral sounding Taboo MK3 I had most of them for an extended period of time in combination with diverse output and input tubes, but a good 60% of time the RCA tube was running the show. For my warmer speaker amp I prefer the Sylvania, USAF or Osram.
  
 I also want to add this should not be read by just looking as what came "first" and "last". These I repeat are what I consider my top 5 tubes. I personally think highly of each one of them.
  
*Value:*
 Value wise if I only had a small budget to spend on a rectifier, it has got to be the RCA. It's a no brainer. I paid 30-40$ for each of mine, including shipping to far away. 
 Moving up the cost next is Brimar. Unless I find my system a bit too bright, I would actually probably stretch to the USAF-596. They go for 100-150$ if you can find one that is. But if you ask and look around there are still a few. The first was difficult for me to aquire and then I found two more NOS. They are not going anywhere, that's for sure.
 The Osram was a very lucky find through a British army person. The base was loose and the guiding leg is missing. I don't have high hopes I will find another one for a non astronomical price, and yes it's a very special tube. The equivalent, the GEC U52, is avaible here and there, but expensive.
 Now the Sylvania 274B is the oldest made and most expensive of them all ... it's everyone's decision whether it's worth it. But if you decide it's not or you cannot find one, worry not. The USAF-596 or RCA are in the same tier.
  
 Notes: I also have more recent editions of some of these tubes. Moving into the 1960s and later... it wasn't quite the same quality with many times a drop in SQ.


----------



## negura

Reserved


----------



## thegrobe

I'm very much looking forward to your impressions, Raz. Thanks in advance for putting forth the effort!


----------



## longbowbbs

Raz, this ought to be fun! Can't wait to see what you think about your rectifier collection!


----------



## Argo Duck

If tink97 (thread starter) still watches this thread...might be good to link to negura's post from post 1?

Looks likely to be valuable and would be nice to make it easy(ish) to find.


----------



## mwindham08

LOVE the Brimar, it so sweet!


----------



## longbowbbs

argo duck said:


> If tink97 (thread starter) still watches this thread...might be good to link to negura's post from post 1?
> 
> Looks likely to be valuable and would be nice to make it easy(ish) to find.


 
 I have not seen tink97 around here for awhile....


----------



## Nyvar

tink97 also is jumping on the toriii IV band wagon.   Mine will finally arrive on Monday.   Next time I think I'll go for 2 day shipping.   Was so hoping for Friday, but shipped and picked up were a day apart.


----------



## longbowbbs

I was looking at the new Zen Mystery Amp.....Torii Mono's stuffed into one case for half the price of the Mono's themselves.  Steve keeps tempting me....


----------



## snapontom

As MLK said "I have been to the mountain."  I went to Phoenix for Thanksgiving and visited a shop, Hi-Fi Arizona, or tubeaudio.com.  Sitting in the sweet spot of their listening room I experienced what is possible in two channel audio.  The imaging was precise.  The sound did not appear to be coming from the speakers but from the back wall.  Listening to a Sheffield recorded album of Harry James' big band was like having the stage in front of me. I could point to the musicians.  Why do I bring this up in a headphone, Decware thread?  Their amp was a ten watt Shindo.  I have a 12 watt Taboo.  I think I can get "there" with room treatments, and a better turntable.  Now, weather a Decware will come close to the Shindo, I don't know but both men trust their ears and are focused on imaging.  LOL BTW when I got home I ordered Decware's speaker cables to replace my 12 AWG lawn lighting speaker cable.  The quest continues...


----------



## longbowbbs

Keep us posted, Tom! We all love the quest!


----------



## negura

With a heavy green tea dose tonight, the rectifier round-up is completed and post on previous page updated: 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/593623/decware-appreciation-thread-mt-review-up-on-first-page-2-10-12/1140#post_10040051
  
 Enjoy the read folks! While starting on Monday, mainly because I no longer have any proper dynamic headphones in the stable, I will be saying good-bye to my Decware Taboo MK3, the time with it was fantastic. And you never know what the future brings. I am still looking at that newly posted Mystery amp.   But even so I will still have one and soon two amps that use these rectifiers.


----------



## Cobalt

I'm a fairly new Decware amp owner. I purchased a second hand Decware CSP2+ from rivieraranch on the Decware forum. My set up is audio from my computer to an M-Audio Transit to a Meier Audio Stagedac and then to the Decware CSP2+ with headphones being Beyerdynamic T1. This is my first tube amp and I've never heard a headphone tube amp. My previous set up was a Firestone Cute Beyond amp to an Entech Number Cruncher dac to either Sennheiser 595 or Audio Technica ATH-AD900X.
  
 I used the tubes which came with the CSP2+ from Decware. A Valve Art 274B rectifier and three 6N1P-EV. I used these tubes for about a week. It definitely sounded better than my old solid state amp.
  

  
 Last night I decided to use some tubes I had bought. An RCA 5R4GY rectifier and three Sylvania JAN 6DJ8. For some reason I kept thinking the 6DJ8 were Philips and I didn't realize they were Sylvania till I had them in the amp. After putting the new tubes in and listening for awhile all I could think was wow! I didn't think different tubes would make that much of a difference. The new tubes made things sound more natural. Cymbals are not as harsh as when I tried the T1 using my old solid state amp.
  

  
 I have to be very careful and watch the time when listening to music. I experience no fatigue using my new gear and I keep listening to music losing track of time. For what I paid for when I bought the RCA and Sylvania tubes I think it greatly improved the amp. I may eventually try a different rectifier but for now I'm very happy with the sound.


----------



## Argo Duck

That's a nice setup Cobalt. The meier stagedac is a very musical, well balanced and neutral dac, and until recently was my favorite with Decware gear.

And yes, these amps are very responsive to tube rolling. You can achieve cold - neutral - warm easily and without spending a fortune.

Welcome to the club


----------



## dan.gheorghe

negura said:


> Folks I am going to start this post and it will be a long one. It's been promised for a while and it is the result of months of good old rollin'. Pictures first and I am sure you will know where I am going with this.


 
  
 Good review, Razvan! Thank you for taking the time for all the details.


----------



## baronbeehive

cobalt said:


> ......... Cymbals are not as harsh as when I tried the T1 using my old solid state amp........
> 
> .......I have to be very careful and watch the time when listening to music. I experience no fatigue using my new gear and I keep listening to music losing track of time. For what I paid for when I bought the RCA and Sylvania tubes I think it greatly improved the amp. I may eventually try a different rectifier but for now I'm very happy with the sound.


 
 That's exactly the reason I love tube amps! Recently I did a quick comparison between my then nuForce icon-2 and and Little Dot mkvi+ tube amp used as a preamp with the icon-2. I found that using the tube preamp softened the icon-2 output very slightly in a very pleasing way, on the leading edge of the music. The icon-2 is not a harsh sounding amp by any means but with the preamp it got rid of the slightly irritating high hat and cymbal sound I was experiencing and any other harshness coming from the snare drum. It also provided a good overall full, rounded relaxing musical sound. I think you will find that vocals are especially good with tubes, depending on the amp they should be smoother, more liquid sounding and I find the realism spine tingling. At the end of my quick comparison test I was listening to the Beatles remasters and found that they sounded very good with tubes compared to digit amp. The sound was full and fairly detailed and said quite a lot about the quality of the remaster as well as the amp! This was an interesting test I thought because the remasters could easily have sounded too harsh or too muddy and difficult to listen to depending on the recording quality so I ended up very pleased with the sound I got from my tube amp.
  
 I hope you guys don't mind me veering slightly off this thread but the reason was to chip in with a general point about tubes and to reiterate my hope that someone who has heard the Rachel will come on and tell of their experiences with it, as I said before I'm hoping to wind up with that, or similar amp, maybe Taboo, so that I can use both headphones and speakers on the same amp. At the moment I've got 2 tube amps, one for speakers and one for cans!


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## longbowbbs

Congrats Colbalt! You have one of the great bargains in the headphone amp world!


----------



## Argo Duck

Finally got time to read them - excellent notes on those rectifiers *negura*. Thanks 

*Cobalt*, I forgot to mention: I didn't 'get' the T1 or like it much until I heard it with the CSP2+.

Recently I did some comparisons for another head-fier of the T1 among several SS amps. While I was able to 'hear' the T1's strengths better after being educated by the CSP2, the CSP2 is still way out front.


----------



## Cobalt

I basically took a shot in the dark buying my gear. I don't have high end audio stores which carry higher end headphones, amps, dacs, etc. in my area. I researched quite a bit before making my purchases and so far have been happy.
  
 I've ordered a Philips 5R4GYS rectifier from Upscale Audio and look forward to hearing how it sounds. As far as preamp tubes, I think I've settled on Sylvania 6DJ8. I like how they sound compared to the 6N1P-EV I have on hand and the cost of the Sylvania 6DJ8 I've purchased has been very reasonable.
  
*AiDee*, I see you own a Meier Audio Corda Classic and a Decware CSP2+. How would you compare the two? I almost pulled the trigger on the Corda Classic several times.


----------



## Argo Duck

The Corda Classic is very good. I've owned a lot of Meier amps and the Classic is Jan's finest.

However, it doesn't deliver the musicality of the CSP2+. The main component of this seems to be dynamics, or "vivid presentation". The Decware's seem able to 'decompress' recorded music, giving greater dynamic swing. This seems to apply to micro-dynamics too, thus rendering textural changes and expressive nuances of skilled vocalists and instrumentalists more clearly.

The CSP2 (with T1) and Taboo (with LCD2) did take some tuning. Both were too warm and a little lazy and slow with stock tubes (the Taboo more so than the CSP2). Once I'd tuned them more neutral all this was fixed. Much of the time I found tracks sounded uncannily live and real, not to mention unevenness in recordings (transitions between different takes I suppose) being exposed which I'd not noticed before.

In comparison, the Classic seems always at a reliably high but not exceptional level. It may be the more accurate for all I know!

Whatever, the "vividness" of the Decware amps does not come at the cost of obvious faults. Bass is tight yet powerful, there are no obvious signs of FR tailoring (e.g. no added presence etc), mids are detailed, highs sparkle but are never sibilant. There may well be the thickening ('coloration') present that tube amps are supposed to bring, but if so it's well tamed. I've discussed this with one of the EE's on head-fi. Basically, a tube amp with well-controlled THD, most of it 2nd-order and with low IMD will sound very natural (because 2nd harmonics only augment the 2nd harmonics naturally present in most music). This is what Steve seems to have achieved: tube amps that - with headphones anyway - are just idling and hence able to show off tubes' best properties. I think this accounts for the Decwares' high levels of transparency with hp gear.

I recently found the Decwares scale with change of DAC, but can need re-tuning. My latest DAC delivers exceptional detail and texture in the bass and lower mids, and much greater low-level resolution than my other DACs. To get its full benefits I found I needed driver tubes that previously I'd called too hard and cold. Benefits included slam and attack (from the LCD2) I'd never heard before and quite unbelievable dynamics.


----------



## dan.gheorghe

My *Taboo MK3* and balanced *Toxic Silver Widow* just arrived today.
  
 I must say... I am floored! I am trying to get my jaw off the floor. I love it with LCD-X. 
  
 Starting my honeymoon now ).
  
 Will be back with a fat baby review after I get accustomed to it.


----------



## thegrobe

dan.gheorghe said:


> My *Taboo MK3* and balanced *Toxic Silver Widow* just arrived today.
> 
> I must say... I am floored! I am trying to get my jaw off the floor. I love it with LCD-X.
> 
> ...




Yeah baby! Good to hear! I've signed up for a LCD-X demo from Justin at headamp, I'm hoping to get my chance soon to try it out on the CSP/taboo. LCD-3/X showdown....

Ai Dee- I've found I needed to make a small change in my tube selection with change of DAC as well. Previous setup just a bit too cold with the new DAC. I actually went back to the 6N1P-EV in the Taboo input. Philips 5R4GYS rectifier and amperex or genelex EL84. Of course the standard output tubes are great as well. 

Negura- thanks for the detailed notes on rectifers! Really really good stuff! I have had a bug to try and track down a USAF 596, but your write-up gives me some other ideas to expand the search for something else equally as special. As of now, my favorite is still the Philps 5R4GYS followed by the RCA 5Y3GT. But looking to eventually trying one of the more "rare" options. Thanks.


----------



## negura

dan.gheorghe said:


> My *Taboo MK3* and balanced *Toxic Silver Widow* just arrived today.
> 
> I must say... I am floored! I am trying to get my jaw off the floor. I love it with LCD-X.
> 
> ...


 
  






 Glad you're enjoying! I am already missing it while waiting for my KGSSHV. Another month to go on a lesser speaker amp.


----------



## dan.gheorghe

negura said:


> Glad you're enjoying! I am already missing it while waiting for my KGSSHV. Another month to go on a lesser speaker amp.


 
 Thanks man!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can relate with why you are missing it  Don't worry it will be in good hands


----------



## Cobalt

Thank you for the comparison *AiDee*.


----------



## longbowbbs

Just got this e-mail from Steve about Decware's e-mail trouble:
  
  





 
 Hi Eric,
We're sorry to bother you!  Our e-mails at decware.com were _*blacklisted*_ on DEC 12 at approximately 3:12 P.M. for reasons yet to be discovered - meaning that all attempts to e-mail anyone at decware.com will result in bounced e-mails.   We can't receive these e-mails that are sent to decware.com. 
*NEW CONTACT EMAILS:*
*Sarah:* sarah@zenamps.com   _(was sarah @ decware.com)_
*DeVon:* dev@zenamps.com _﻿ ﻿﻿(was dev @ decware.com)﻿﻿﻿_
*Steve:* steve@zenamps.com _(was zen @ decware.com)_
*Josh:* josh@zenamps.com _(was josh @ decware.com)_
 
Please use the above e-mails for future communications!


----------



## dan.gheorghe

Did anybody experience a subtle hum with taboo mk3 and low impedance headphones? I am getting a very subtle humm on the left channel.


----------



## longbowbbs

I did not have any Hum, Dan. However, I was using Sennheiser's exclusively.


----------



## Cobalt

dan.gheorghe said:


> Did anybody experience a subtle hum with taboo mk3 and low impedance headphones? I am getting a very subtle humm on the left channel.




Trying different tubes with my Decware CSP2+ I did run in to a hum. Swapped out tubes till I found the problem tube, a 6DJ8. Put in a different 6DJ8 and the hum was gone. Your problem may be a bad tube.


----------



## Kendoji

dan.gheorghe said:


> Did anybody experience a subtle hum with taboo mk3 and low impedance headphones? I am getting a very subtle humm on the left channel.




A few of us have Taboos with hum and noise floor issues. I've tried everything (short of sending it back) but just live with it now.


----------



## dan.gheorghe

kendoji said:


> A few of us have Taboos with hum and noise floor issues. I've tried everything (short of sending it back) but just live with it now.


 
 I have tried everything myself with no result. I have noticed the humm growing on the left channel only when turning on the Lucid Modes : ~2X with the old lucid mode and ~ 4-5x with the new lucid mode.


----------



## mwindham08

dan.gheorghe said:


> I have tried everything myself with no result. I have noticed the humm growing on the left channel only when turning on the Lucid Modes : ~2X with the old lucid mode and ~ 4-5x with the new lucid mode.


 
 Are you using stock tubes?
 I looked at your profile and with that power regenerator its probably not coming through an outlet. 
 Most likely coming from your tubes.


----------



## dan.gheorghe

mwindham08 said:


> Are you using stock tubes?
> I looked at your profile and with that power regenerator its probably not coming through an outlet.
> Most likely coming from your tubes.


 
 I have many tubes and switched them to see if they are at fault, but it seems they aren't.


----------



## mwindham08

dan.gheorghe said:


> I have many tubes and switched them to see if they are at fault, but it seems they aren't.


 
 Ahh ok just checking.


----------



## tink97

argo duck said:


> If tink97 (thread starter) still watches this thread...might be good to link to negura's post from post 1?
> 
> Looks likely to be valuable and would be nice to make it easy(ish) to find.


 
  
  
 Yep still around though not too much active anymore in headphones,  if someone could tell me how to link it to the first post i am more than happy to do it.


----------



## tink97

nyvar said:


> tink97 also is jumping on the toriii IV band wagon.   Mine will finally arrive on Monday.   Next time I think I'll go for 2 day shipping.   Was so hoping for Friday, but shipped and picked up were a day apart.


 
  
  
 Hey Nyvar,
  
 Yep I did get a torii IV about a month or so ago and really do love it.  I really love my mini Torii and have used it happily ever since I started this thread but I have always wanted to get a torii but just had to save up the money heh.  The Torii IV is great in bringing the music to life,  the bass and imaging is astounding and i have been using the KT66 tubes from decware.
  
 Tink97


----------



## Argo Duck

Hey tink good to see you! I'm much more a speaker guy myself...headphones have just been more convenient in recent years.

AFAIK go to the post you want to link, right click the #xxxx of xxxy part (top right) and copy link. Then go edit your first post. Crudest method is to paste the link in whole (and of course add a sentence explaining what it's for!).

Neater is to highlight part of the sentence then use the link icon to make the connection. 

I just tried that with negura's post - let's see if it works.

If done in mobile mode, the links seem to be a bit approximate. They take you to the page but not always the exact post. Desktop mode might be better?

Edit: to make a liar out of me, the link I inserted above takes me straight to negura's post


----------



## Nyvar

Does any one have a link to or pdf of the Taboo MK II SE84TS+ / 2009 to 2012 manual they'd be willing to email to me? 
  
Thanks!
  
Ravyn


----------



## Argo Duck

Yes i have one downloaded 8/24/2011. PM me.


----------



## SP Wild

Didn't realise decware made speakers, cool.
  
 Long thread, didn't read, just wondering if decware makes a tube unit good for low impedance, high current and high impedance high voltage headphones, If it could drive speakers as well that would be a sweet bonus.
  
 Edit.  Come think of it I may be wishing too much from vintage technology.


----------



## longbowbbs

sp wild said:


> Didn't realise decware made speakers, cool.
> 
> Long thread, didn't read, just wondering if decware makes a tube unit good for low impedance, high current and high impedance high voltage headphones, If it could drive speakers as well that would be a sweet bonus.
> 
> Edit.  Come think of it I may be wishing too much from vintage technology.


 
 Decware has 2 HP amps. The CSP3+ is great with Dynamic higher impedance HP's like Sennheiser. The HD800's are fantastic on the CSP3+. They also make the Taboo MK III which is specifically engineered for the Audeze line of Planer Magnetic HP's. 
  
 When not driving HP's the Taboo is a great SET 4.5 watt amp and the CSP3+ makes a great Pre-amplifier for low watt high efficiency speaker bliss. I had the pair running my Decware DM945 bookshelf's and it was a holographic listening experience. 
  
 Decware also uses easy to find inexpensive tubes. You can roll them, but the factory installed tube choices are wonderful as well.


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## SP Wild

longbowbbs said:


> Decware has 2 HP amps. The CSP3+ is great with Dynamic higher impedance HP's like Sennheiser. The HD800's are fantastic on the CSP3+. They also make the Taboo MK III which is specifically engineered for the Audeze line of Planer Magnetic HP's.
> 
> When not driving HP's the Taboo is a great SET 4.5 watt amp and the CSP3+ makes a great Pre-amplifier for low watt high efficiency speaker bliss. I had the pair running my Decware DM945 bookshelf's and it was a holographic listening experience.
> 
> Decware also uses easy to find inexpensive tubes. You can roll them, but the factory installed tube choices are wonderful as well.


 

  Ahh yes, I remeber Frank I used to rave about the Taboo back in the day.  I've got a pair of extremely high efficiency speakers that seem to gel nice with tube amps and it opens new possibilities for experimentation.  The Taboo has my interest and the price is quite reasonable also. 
  
 People often rave about flea watt amps, I would certainly like to know what all the fuss is about.


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## longbowbbs

They are a lot of fun. Provided you have sufficient efficiency for them to be driven by 4 watts. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 You can use just the Taboo as a 2 source integrated for speakers (or HP's). The addition of the CSP3+ will provide more gain to the mix and additional tube rolling options. I enjoyed the combo very much.


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## SP Wild

You mean to say, you stick a tube amp in front of a tube amp?  Is it just additional gain, or am I missing something?  I would've imagined this might thicken the sound or maybe a tad too rich.  I have a solid state preamp, this would solve gain issues right?
  
 Reading the thread backwards and it seems hum might be an issue.  I regret selling one of tube amps, and I maily sold it because of hum with sensitive headphones...I stii wish I have this amp, it was the Cayin HA-1 and still is one of the best headphone amps I have ever heard in many ways.  It was also EL84 SET or UL swithable with flea watt speaker taps.
  
 I guess I am willing to put up with hum on senstive headphones, as long as it doesn't hum with my HD650s, LCD2s and speakers.


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## longbowbbs

While both units can drive headphones, each is a piece of stereo gear. The CSP3+ is a Pre-Amplifier. The Taboo MK III is an Amplifier. Decware has designed them to perform more effectively with different styles of HP's.  You will get a gain boost using the CSP3+ in combination with the Taboo. It is not required as Decware tends to provide rudimentary integrated amp functionality in all of its amps. 
  
 FWIW, I did not experience the hum that some people have mentioned here. I know Steve has chased that gremlin around for several people. I am not sure he ultimately came up with a source of the hum from the device's perspective. it could have been local line noise, poor ground, a bad tube.....Lot's of variables. I did not have the problem so I cannot comment on that. My Taboo was dead quiet.


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## SP Wild

Thanks a million for your insight.  The Taboo is officially on my radar.  I gotta say, the aesthetics of the taboo is certainly gogeous, more the reason to want one!


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## longbowbbs

I had the base done in Maple and it was beautiful.


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## SP Wild

Nice!  I gotta admit, I hit the internet pages for the taboo...and the first thing that got me was....the VU meter....I want an analogue VU meter on my next toy.  Lame, I know, but the heart is the most illogical part of the whole ordeal...the one area that we must listen to in order to obtain satisfaction.


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## longbowbbs

Steve's amps are all auto biasing, but it is fun to see them in action via the VU meters....


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## Argo Duck

I was about to suggest you (SP Wild) look for the earlier Taboo mk II as it's 6W - _but it lacks the all-important VU meters_ 

I gotta admit I _almost_ upgraded my mk II to mk III just for those meters


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## SP Wild

ugh...I can see where this is going...more useable power or a useless VU meter....not sure, decision too difficult to make.


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## Argo Duck

Well, depends whether you can _get_ a Mk II as they're not made any more. You'd have a hard job persuading me to sell mine 

Seriously, the III has lots of other changes and improvements - balanced out, increased gain, a "lucid-plus" mode and so on. The gain is a good thing. The II sounds fine (and more transparent) straight from a DAC but it _does_ gain (sometimes hugely) in dynamics with either a preamp or a high-output DAC...


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## SP Wild

Well my dac outputs 2.5v single ended and if that isn't enough I can easily bring in the matching preamp which extends the output of the dac in all current domain from dac to amp.


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## Argo Duck

Sounds good.

Steve's notes for the mk II indicated it needed 3-4V - which the mk III does not - but I was never sure whether he meant rms or peak.

Certainly the Taboo sounded better with the Eastern Electric MiniMax's 2.5V rms _in tube mode_, but best of all (fed direct) is from my BMC PureDAC at full output (have no idea what the Vout is but it's certainly more than 2V rms). Of course the PureDAC's abilities compared to my other dacs have a part in this.

Regardless, the Taboo in any form is a heck of an amp with my LCD2 and (recently) LCD3F, also great with my 92dB/1W/1m speakers. Equally good is the CSP2 (now CSP3 as Eric noted above) with Beyer T1. Very dynamic, transparent amps with lots of tube-rolling possibilities.


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## SP Wild

I'm having a bit of an issue with this sounds good with 3 to 4 volts thing.  Why would this be the case, when this is not within spec of output standards.  Unless it was made explicitly to use with a preamp, in which case an opportunity is missed when all that was needed was to design the thing to play well out of industry standard outputs?
  
 Aidee, what's your whole opinion on the fazor vs non fazor issue WRT to bass on the Audeze cans?


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## Argo Duck

I _think_ the Taboo was originally designed to pair with a preamp (with Decware, this meant the CSP series). As well, it was made to drive speakers and only added an hp capability when Frank I asked if it was a possibility.

The latest mk III addressed the 3-4V thing by making it stand-alone. It now - I understand - can definitely be driven to full power from a standard 2Vrms source. As well, I must say I didn't notice any lack of dynamics at first driving the mk II from standard DAC outputs. It was only later I "discovered" what others said was in fact true - with _some_ material. And with DACs that produce high quality (detailed) bass.

The fazor/bass issue - ugh! Let me state up front I've never heard the LCD3 'classic'. However, I still have my LCD2r1.

Comparing the 2r1 and 3F's FR charts one would _think_ the 2r1 has a lot more bass. It doesn't; quite the reverse in fact! The bass from the 3F is stunning: deep, detailed, sustained. It may be as simple as "the LCD3 - regardless of version - has more and higher quality bass information" and that I hear this "information" as "more bass". I have no idea, but the FR charts are not accurate guides in this case.

Of course if I had the chance to compare a 3C and 3F I might understand what the "fazor/bass issue" is, but I haven't and don't!


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## Rizlaw

sp wild said:


> Well my dac outputs 2.5v single ended and if that isn't enough I can easily bring in the matching preamp which extends the output of the dac in all current domain from dac to amp.
> 
> I'm having a bit of an issue with this sounds good with 3 to 4 volts thing.  Why would this be the case, when this is not within spec of output standards.  Unless it was made explicitly to use with a preamp, in which case an opportunity is missed when all that was needed was to design the thing to play well out of industry standard outputs?


 
  
 My W4S DAC-2 outputs 2.6 volts single ended and is more than sufficient to drive the Taboo III which needs *2.1 volts input for maximum output*. Notwithstanding that Steve D. designed the CSP3 to provide a factory 4 volt output for his amps (see quote below), I'm not sure why you are concerned the Taboo III needs 3 or 4 volts to sound good. It doesn't. So, your DAC, which has similar output to mine, should work fine and sound good. If you didn't know about the synergistic improvement the CSP3 preamp brings to the Taboo III, you probably would be very happy with the sound of the Taboo III without the CSP3. Many are.
  
 As to why this combination (CSP3/Taboo III) sounds better to most who have it, I think Steve's design notes for the CSP2 (and applicable to the CSP3) provide part of the answer (the rest lies in tubes and the new parts, caps and wiring):
  
 Quote:


> The CSP2 circuit consists of a gain stage with higher plate voltages driving a SRPP stage similar to the original MLB design. The stages are direct coupled. The SRPP stage drives the output capacitors. The line level is taken directly off the outputs via a 100K precision trim pot. The output impedance is about 10 times lower than the CSP so using line level outputs has no audible effect on the sound of the headphones.
> The output level is adjustable and the trim pots are accessible from the outside, one per channel. With a 2 volt input, the line level output can be adjusted smoothly between 0 and 36 volts with virtually no distortion on the scope. *Factory setting will be a 4 volt output giving it plenty of authority with our amps*. High power amplifiers and or amplifiers with input sensitivities of 1 volt or less will benefit from adjusting the voltage to around 1 volt. Lower power tube gear that sometimes requires 5 volts or more to drive it because it lacks enough gain stages, will be best served by settings between 5 and 8 volts. This insures complete synergy and compatibility with virtually all amplifiers. Having adjustable gain allows the serious audiophiles to run the volume control wherever they feel it sounds best while maintaining the desired level of output at all times. Independent adjustment on each channel also allows for channel balancing.


 
  
  
 My observations.


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## Argo Duck

^ I think SP Wild was only concerned about the "3 or 4 volts" in relation to the earlier mk II I mentioned (in case one could be got second hand), not the III.

Useful quote - I don't recall seeing that part about setting the 2 (or 3) "between 5 and 8 volts" for some lower power tube amps.


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## SP Wild

argo duck said:


> I _think_ the Taboo was originally designed to pair with a preamp (with Decware, this meant the CSP series). As well, it was made to drive speakers and only added an hp capability when Frank I asked if it was a possibility.
> 
> The latest mk III addressed the 3-4V thing by making it stand-alone. It now - I understand - can definitely be driven to full power from a standard 2Vrms source. As well, I must say I didn't notice any lack of dynamics at first driving the mk II from standard DAC outputs. It was only later I "discovered" what others said was in fact true - with _some_ material. And with DACs that produce high quality (detailed) bass.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Oh OK.  Thanks for the clarification.  This makes better sense to me, I was under the impression, the latest Taboo might still require a high input voltage.  It makes a lot of sense that the original Taboo was a power amp for speakers....now evolved to drive headphones equally as well.  Man, I think its awesome that audio manufacturers no longer put a head out as an afterthought...but engineer them to perform well with todays headphones.  Thanks for your impressions between the LCD2 and LCD3 fazor.  I guess for me, the LCD2 was always a luxurious bonus....as I always considered the HD650 as a fortunate luxury for me to have owned...in that sense, I have never felt the need to climb further than what my LCD2s can provide.  Would be different if I had more money though.


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## Argo Duck

Cheers, glad to help.

I posted a comparison of the LCD2r1 and 3F in one of the LCD3 threads which might interest you. I found the differences subtle. Interestingly, the differences sounded much bigger until I A/B'd. But you know how it is in this hobby: sometimes "subtle" becomes "essential" 

As well, it's true - the 3 is more picky of what's in front of it :eek:

Btw, it took me _years_ to decide to get the 3. I felt as you, the LCD2 (even r1) were ample.

And by the time I decided, it wasn't the (classic) 3 anymore...


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## RingingEars

Ordered the CSP3 last week. It's really classy how Decware sends you play-by-play updates of the build process. Mine is in the "parts pulled" stage 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Can't wait to get it here and do some listening 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Edit: Just got another email that it's in the "testing" phase. Getting closer.


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## longbowbbs

Congrats! You are going to be happy with this new toy....


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## RingingEars

Thank Longbow. Looks like it's going to be delivered on Fri. Decware seems to have very fast turnaround times. I wasn't expecting it until mid-late Nov. That's ok though. I'll take it now


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## longbowbbs

ringingears said:


> Thank Longbow. Looks like it's going to be delivered on Fri. Decware seems to have very fast turnaround times. I wasn't expecting it until mid-late Nov. That's ok though. I'll take it now


 
 We need reports and pics when you can!


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## RingingEars

Will do.


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## RingingEars

I'm loving this amplifier with the HD800. Seems like it's a match made in heaven. I need a good dac to give you guys a proper review of it though. I had a Teac UD-501 and it sounded incredible. The synergy between the CSP3, Teac, and HD800 was amazing. Unfortunately the Teac had an issue so I sent it back and bought in on the Geek Pulse deal so I'll be waiting on that...
  
 Can you guys tell me the proper "headphone plugging in" procedure? Do you start the amp, let it warm up and then plug your phones in or do leave them in all the time. I'm worried that there might be a lot of stray voltage like the Bottlehead Crack on startup that can burn out drivers. I usually plug them in after I start the amp, but I notice there is a good POP sound when I do that...


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## longbowbbs

I always left the hd800's plugged in. I had the Taboo as well so sometimes I would go to just the CSP2+. It was fun to go back and forth. Either way, they were plugged in before I would turn either unit on.


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## RingingEars

longbowbbs said:


> I always left the hd800's plugged in. I had the Taboo as well so sometimes I would go to just the CSP2+. It was fun to go back and forth. Either way, they were plugged in before I would turn either unit on.


 
 Thanks longbow. I couldn't find the info in the manual. So there must be a soft-start circuit in the Decware...


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## Audio Addict

FYI

Decware is having a 10% off Black Friday sale. Just go to their website.


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## Hibuckhobby

Old thread, I know, but being an owner of a "new to me" Taboo II I have enjoyed reading this a great deal.
 Listening to Holly Cole right now with HE500's and loving it.   At times I don't think it is as transparent as
 some of the amps I've had, but then I notice how the music engages me and I decide to stop being analytical
 and just enjoy.
 Hibuck...


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## Argo Duck

Not "as transparent" :eek:
What tubes you running? Presumably not stock as this is the deleted model II (which I also own) but FWIW I found stock immediately engaging and surprisingly good performers but did a lot better with modest rolling (rectifier and driver; my power tubes are still original).

And welcome to the club


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## Hibuckhobby

Good question. RCA black plate 12au7, stock russian power tubes.
RCA 5u4g rectifier. Just put in a Valve Art 274b, still burning in. A bit
bass light right now compared to the RCA, I think I preferred the more euphonic sound
But want to give the 274b a chance. Also going to try a 5751 or 12at7 driver.
Regards,
Hibuck...


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## Argo Duck

Keep us posted.

Tung Sol 5Y3GT and (surprisingly) Brimar CV4033 here. This combination 'just works' with my particular pair of LCD2 rev 1. Generally neutral, the highs seem to extend better and there is tremendous sub-bass impact which other tube combinations didn't bring out. Works well with the LCD3-F too though I'm still looking for the best amp or tube combo in this case.


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## smitty1110

Got a Taboo Mk 3 (high gain version) last week, and my HE-6 came in today. Plugged it into the speaker taps, and haven't swapped amps or cans since (which is a miracle, I tend to bounce around a lot). Hats off to Steve and the team, this is truly an amazing amp.


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## Argo Duck

^ Wow that's good news. HE-6 was apparently too much for Frank I's Taboo mk 1 a few years ago. Shows how much the product has evolved.


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## smitty1110

argo duck said:


> ^ Wow that's good news. HE-6 was apparently too much for Frank I's Taboo mk 1 a few years ago. Shows how much the product has evolved.


 

 I also prefer quieter listening (compared to other head-fiers at meets, at least), and that might help.


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## Argo Duck

^ Fair point. I tend to listen quietly too - hence Taboo has gobs of power for Audezes.
Still good to hear it drives your HE-6. In theory it should always have had the potential to drive the HE-6 with its 6 or 4 W into 8 ohms and the slow taper of power delivery with increasing R...


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## smitty1110

argo duck said:


> In theory it should always have had the potential to drive the HE-6 with its 6 or 4 W into 8 ohms and the slow taper of power delivery with increasing R...


 
  
 That's what I figured, and I was a bit leery of plugging the HE-6 into the 10 WPC 6L6 amp. Figured I'd want to start a bit smaller


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## Hibuckhobby

I think the consensus was that the Taboo II put out about 2.3w into 50 ohms.  That may
 be right on the edge for a HE-6, but the type of music and volume at which you listen is
 going to be a deciding factor.  I'm running HE-500's with mine and power is not an issue.
 I may get a 12AT7 or 5751 driver at some point for more gain on the front end, but that's
 more an issue of curiosity on my part than it is need.
 Hibuck....


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## Argo Duck

Curiousity can be an expensive thing in this hobby


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## Hibuckhobby

Thus my screen name


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## Argo Duck

O right I didn't clock that! Good screen name


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## Audio Addict

argo duck said:


> O right I didn't clock that! Good screen name




Less expensive than other hobbies out there


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## Hibuckhobby

Than other addictions as well!
Hibuck.....


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## jhljhl

hibuckhobby said:


> Old thread, I know, but being an owner of a "new to me" Taboo II I have enjoyed reading this a great deal.
> Listening to Holly Cole right now with HE500's and loving it.   At times I don't think it is as transparent as
> some of the amps I've had, but then I notice how the music engages me and I decide to stop being analytical
> and just enjoy.
> Hibuck...


 

 Hi, I'm glad you revived this thread. Your Taboo has V-Caps in it and I thought that was what made it very transparent -surprisingly so- there seemed to be no grain at all.  I agree though the Taboo is a euphonic engaging warm sounding amp not really analytical amp with a more intimate soundstage; smaller width but big height if that makes sense.  I would suggest a telefunken 12ax7 for more gain but to maintain transparency.


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## Hibuckhobby

Thanks for tips!  I've been rolling some 12AT7's in and tried a Valve Art 274b.
 The 5U4 that was in it is a better mix to my ears.  The VA was very neutral, but
 a bit light in the bass/midbass.  Been thinking about trying some El84's, but
 wondering how much I'd miss the "hazengrid" if I took out the Russian tubes.
 I find that I'm hearing some layering and staging cues that I haven't heard before.
 I like the Taboo a lot and find it a very nice companion to my Koss electrostatics.
 Hibuck....


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## stoutblock

I finally got my Decware headphone setup complete. 
  
 FLAC > Neutral cable USB (blue) > Audio-gd Master 7 (USB32) > Avanti Allegro > Decware CSP3 (3) Mullard CV2493 (1) RCA 5Y3GT > Decware Taboo III (1) Mullard CV2493 (2) 6P15P-EV (1) Mullard GZ34 "DD" > Aphrodite Zeus Quad21 OCC Series 7 > Audeze LCD 2.2
  
Sounds pretty darn good!


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## jeust0999

edit


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## Hibuckhobby

Just an update to keep the thread alive.  I just got a late model pair of HD-800's.   I am stunned by
 the synergy between the CSP-2+ and these cans.  The rectifier used makes a pretty big difference, but
 the Mullard GZ3 I'm using is wonderful.   Works well with my HD-700's as well.   May end up selling
 my WA-6 and a bunch of tubes.
 regards,
 Hibuck...


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## Argo Duck

^ I'm pretty happy with my HD 800 with CSP2+ as well - incredible with certain genres - although LCD3F gets more air-time.

I was surprised by the difference rectifiers make, although it made sense once I understood they set different voltage points. Might have to try the GZ3


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