# Monoprice Monolith Liquid Platinum - By Alex Cavalli



## ufospls2

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=120&cp_id=12008&cs_id=1200801&p_id=33305&seq=1&format=2

Certainly very interesting if it is real. Does anyone have any further details on this???

*The Cavalli/Monolith Liquid Platinum is a balanced version of the very highly regarded Cavalli Audio Liquid Crimson amplifier. The Platinum is fully balanced/differential amplification with 3.6W ( per channel balanced) into 50R. As an embedded tube hybrid (pioneered by Cavalli) the Platinum gives you the beautiful sound of tubes together with the grunt of solid state to drive the headphones. With multiple inputs and outputs for balanced and single ended operation, switchable gain, and easy front panel input selection, the Liquid Platinum will bring your music listening to new heights.
*
If this is real, I hope someone round these parts orders one. I remember the Liquid Platinum being talked about... ...hmm.... a year ago? There was a demo board with no case at Can Jam Socal or something last year maybe? Might have been the year before.

I need more power for an amp given my two headphones, so I won't be ordering one to test sadly, but man.....if this sounds good and is built well, then things just got interesting, and more competitive.

I thought that Massdrop had all the Cavalli design rights?

I'm just shooting out thoughts randomly. Don't take any of my word as gospel


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## heliosphann

Both these are legit.

Oh baby, I can't wait!


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## palchiu

Two CTH inside? interesting


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## i20bot

Hmmm was about to order a Lyr 3 and now this shows up.


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## heliosphann

I thought this news would bring some serious  heat. If this is truly based on the Liquid Crimson AND balanced, it's going to be one hell of an amp for the price.  @runeight


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## wasupdog

These are 6922 tubes, correct?


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## Hansotek

wasupdog said:


> These are 6922 tubes, correct?



Yes.


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## Hansotek

palchiu said:


> Two CTH inside? interesting



Not two CTHs, it’s a balanced version of the Liquid Crimson, which is a totally different design. The other Cavalli products based on that fundamental design are EHHA, Liquid Fire, Liquid Crimson and Liquid Carbon. Platinum is closest to the Crimson, for sure, which many people felt was Alex’s best amp. I owned one for about a year and it was phenomenal.


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## DRHamp (Apr 5, 2018)

Looks like it's projected to be 6/26/18 release


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## ahmadfaizadnan

OH MY! Might as well just grab one when it's out. Look at that price tho 
What a great deal!


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## Hansotek

FYI - as exciting as the Platinum is, you guys are all sleeping on the upcoming Monolith Liquid Spark, which, once people hear it, is going to completely melt down the $99 price point:

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=120&cp_id=12008&cs_id=1200801&p_id=33304&seq=1&format=2

This is one of those rare products that is so damn good, that you should just buy it regardless of whether or not you need it. Because you will enjoy the living $&?@ out of it. 

The Spark, for those who don’t know, was originally slated to be a $499 portable amp. Well, there was a bit of trouble getting it finished before Cavalli closed up shop (most of which had to do with the battery). Now the same design has been ported over to a compact desktop format (which took away much of the cost). It also allowed Alex to use higher voltage rails, which boosts the output power from the original 350mW to a generous 1.3W on the new desktop version. It’s quiet enough to run an Andromeda and powerful enough to run an HE1000. 

Pretty nice piece of kit, if you ask me. I’ve been a longtime fan of the Spark since I first heard it at RMAF 2015, so I’m pretty excited that this design is finally seeing the light of day.


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## dBel84

As Hans noted, Platinum is a lower power balanced version of the  Crimson. What few people know is that it was actually designed before the Crimson and the concept gave rise to the Crimson. Why wasn't it released originally? It would have been very expensive to manufacture as a high Class A balanced amp and it didnt make good business sense to have a direct competitor to the Lau, hence the Crimson came to be. Why now and why so cheap, well it is not because quality is compromised but running balanced you can lower the power of each section significantly and still  achieve high power (3.6W) without the power requirements and heat management. The amp also uses a SMPS (power brick) to keep cost down.

This is a killer amplifier and with a clean power supply, will be hard to beat at several times its selling price 

I would also second the comment on the Spark, this amp is likely to change the face of entry level and so much more.

Alex will have the amps at Canjam SoCal for anyone able to make it. 

.. dB


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## wasupdog

did you guys also notice monoprice's upcoming headphone amps section?


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## heliosphann

Whoa. Monoprice don't mess around.

That THX Amp/Dac looks really interesting.


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## Hansotek

heliosphann said:


> Whoa. Monoprice don't mess around.
> 
> That THX Amp/Dac looks really interesting.



Yeah, those THX amps are really nice. Super clean sounding. It's cool to see MP licensing designs from talented folk like THX and Cavalli and leveraging their manufacturing capabilities to make them available at a reasonable price.


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## franz12 (Apr 6, 2018)

Looks like amp manufacturers got the formidable competitor. I will postpone all serious amp purchases until July, not riding on Schiit hype train for now.

Hope Cavalli lines at Massdrop and Monoprice become gate keepers at each price segment.


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## palchiu

Hansotek said:


> Not two CTHs, it’s a balanced version of the Liquid Crimson, which is a totally different design. The other Cavalli products based on that fundamental design are EHHA, Liquid Fire, Liquid Crimson and Liquid Carbon. Platinum is closest to the Crimson, for sure, which many people felt was Alex’s best amp. I owned one for about a year and it was phenomenal.



Thanks for the clarify, wait them start shipping.


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## bunkbail (Apr 6, 2018)

I've been lusting over Liquid Crimson for a while now but couldn't afford it due to its $3000 price tag. But if you tell me that there is a balanced version of Liquid Crimson, small form-factor but double the circuit and tubes but at a fraction of the price, I would outright telling you to stop BS-ing me. I mean April fools was over a week ago. But this is Monoprice and people are already hyping it up over at the other forums that-shall-not-be-named. I guess the use of SMD components instead of THT components and the external SMPS (laptop?) power brick instead of internal linear power supply on the original LC contributed to the smaller form-factor but I'm skeptical whether it can retain the cleanliness of the LC output. I think lots of people will end up buying an external LPS that could cost them more than they paid for the Liquid Platinum itself.


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## JWahl

Hmmm.  I recently picked up a Massdrop CTH but this is interesting.  I'm actually hoping this will lead to a Liquid Ambience as well, since the board was previewed along with the Platinum last year.   I'm more of a single-ended guy.  Not using the balanced of the Plantinum might be a waste.  I'd love to see a relatively affordable rendition of the single-ended, embedded-hybrid design.


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## Hansotek

JWahl said:


> Hmmm.  I recently picked up a Massdrop CTH but this is interesting.  I'm actually hoping this will lead to a Liquid Ambience as well, since the board was previewed along with the Platinum last year.   I'm more of a single-ended guy.  Not using the balanced of the Plantinum might be a waste.  I'd love to see a relatively affordable rendition of the single-ended, embedded-hybrid design.



It’s not a waste, believe me. I ran it single-ended from the Hugo 2, and it was definitely impressive.


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## JWahl

Hansotek said:


> It’s not a waste, believe me. I ran it single-ended from the Hugo 2, and it was definitely impressive.


Good to know.  I'm using the Mojo right now with CTH right now while I'm waiting on my Chord Qutest to arrive.  I'll definitely be keeping tabs on this.  Although, I prefer the chassis aesthetics of the Massdrop unit to be honest.


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## felix3650

This fits nicely in that chassis


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## alphanumerix1

liquid platinum?


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## 394216

This might be an upgrade to my Burson Soloist SL. I wonder what balanced DAC to pair with it.


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## reeltime

heliosphann said:


> Whoa. Monoprice don't mess around.
> 
> That THX Amp/Dac looks really interesting.



Massdrop has one as well. Monoprice and Massdrop are changing the game.


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## junki (Apr 8, 2018)

JWahl said:


> Hmmm.  I recently picked up a Massdrop CTH but this is interesting.  I'm actually hoping this will lead to a Liquid Ambience as well, since the board was previewed along with the Platinum last year.   I'm more of a single-ended guy.  Not using the balanced of the Plantinum might be a waste.  I'd love to see a relatively affordable rendition of the single-ended, embedded-hybrid design.


You and I are of the same mind regarding balanced. Without an SE offering, I just might have to pull the trigger on the Lyr 3, or a second MCTH.


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## heliosphann

reeltime said:


> Massdrop has one as well. Monoprice and Massdrop are changing the game.



Massdrop is just a THX AMP. The Monoprice offering is a AMP/DAC combo.


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## franz12

junki said:


> You and I are of the same mind regarding balanced. Without an SE offering, I just might have to pull the trigger on the Lyr 3, or a second MCTH.



No worries. From the picture, I see both SE inputs and outputs. Looks quite versatile.


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## Hansotek

junki said:


> You and I are of the same mind regarding balanced. Without an SE offering, I just might have to pull the trigger on the Lyr 3, or a second MCTH.



FYI guys, you can run the Liquid Platinum with any of the following:

1. Balanced input to balanced output 
2. Balanced input to SE output
3. SE input to SE output 
4. SE input to balanced output 

The Platinum contains a phase splitter that will allow you to utilize all 4 amps in balanced mode, regardless of the type of input you use. So no need to worry about being nerfed by an SE source.


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## KG Jag

The upcoming LP appears to have a much smaller footprint than does the LC.


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## heliosphann

KG Jag said:


> The upcoming LP appears to have a much smaller footprint than does the LC.



The LP using an external PS is going to be a good chunk of it.


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## JWahl (Apr 9, 2018)

heliosphann said:


> The LP using an external PS is going to be a good chunk of it.



Also, if you look carefully at the picture of the prototype board, there are actually two circuit boards stacked closely together.  I didn't notice this at first, myself.

As I understand from past reading, the LP is using less power and less class A bias, which doesn't require as much heatsinking further saving space and cost.

This is more why I said I prefer the single ended as a matter of personal preference.  I'd rather pay a similar amount of cost for deeper class-A bias and the  additional necessary heatsinking than trading that for balanced circuitry.  But I do understand that there is more market demand for affordable balanced amps.  I wouldn't mind eventually seeing a true mini Liquid Crimson, single ended with deep class-A bias and heatsinking.  It could still have a (big) external power brick and come in under $1000, I think.

That being said, I still think this has the potential to be killer at the price point.


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## PopZeus

Well, if there ever was going to be a reason to invest in a tube amp, this would be it. Damn it.


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## greenkiwi

I’m in


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## stimuz

greenkiwi said:


> I’m in



I pray to the chifi gods that monoprice forgets to tag a few sales.


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## greenkiwi

Oh, that would be good. Don’t know if I could wait. 20% would be nice.


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## UNOE

Can't wait for some testing on this one.


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## Stump909

Eagerly awaiting reviews


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## Luckbad (Apr 20, 2018)

I was was taking a gander at the Platinum yet again today and a couple of things stood out regarding the size:

Offloading the power supply to external saves a ton of size/weight. It will also potentially cripple some of the amp's potential without some really good cleanup once inside the chassis. I'll be using a linear power supply with the Liquid Platinum for sure.
Looking at an old shot of the Platinum seems to show two PCBs stacked on top of one another. Am I crazy? That's what I think I'm seeing in the shot, which would certainly account for most of the rest of the size difference.
Edit: Yep, looks like that 2017 prototype was stacked. See the last picture.
Edit #2: Actually, looking closer, I think that lower PCB is just an unpopulated board to keep it offset from the table. Shrug. I suppose there's some stuff going on underneath too, but I'm no amp designer.

And, of course, shrinking (nearly) everything down to SMD components. The Liquid Crimson has a lot of electrolytic capacitors and through-hole components.
Also found a Cavalli CanJam 2017 thread worth reading with comments from @runeight.
I think we have our answer to: "How can a balanced Liquid Crimson be smaller than the single-ended Liquid Crimson?" Stacked PCBs (actually think that's not true), outboard power supply, smaller components, intelligent layout.

This is a gut shot of a Cavalli Liquid Crimson:







Here's a picture from about a year ago of the Platinum:


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## stimuz

> I think we have our answer to: "How can a balanced Liquid Crimson be smaller than the single-ended Liquid Crimson?" Stacked PCBs (actually think that's not true), outboard power supply, smaller components, intelligent layout.



I also think having monoprice on production is a big part. I have a feeling monoprice does a lot of massdrop's stuff too, there's just so much overlap between the two to be coincidence, but either way they definitely have experience with it.


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## ZenErik

Looking forward to trying this amp this summer. Good chance it’ll be my end game for a while as I’ve been looking for a balanced hybrid. The Lyr 3 puts me off from considering the Mjo2 because why not wait for the Mjo3 at this point. So Liquid Platinum it is. 

It’s not the prettiest thing I’ve seen, but the look has grown on me since a bit. A bit more ‘I don’t mind it’ rather than ‘that thing is hideous’.


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## runeight

Luckbad said:


> I was was taking a gander at the Platinum yet again today and a couple of things stood out regarding the size:
> 
> Offloading the power supply to external saves a ton of size/weight. It will also potentially cripple some of the amp's potential without some really good cleanup once inside the chassis. I'll be using a linear power supply with the Liquid Platinum for sure.
> Looking at an old shot of the Platinum seems to show two PCBs stacked on top of one another. Am I crazy? That's what I think I'm seeing in the shot, which would certainly account for most of the rest of the size difference.
> ...



Almost right. 

The daughter board is a heater supply. I didn't like the original so I changed it for the show last year. The new board doesn't need the daughter board bc the heater supply has been finalized.

There are more electrolytics on the new board as well as a few other changes.

Not only has it been compressed, it's been compressed enough to go from an SE amp to a balanced amp.


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## Luckbad

Thank you for the clarification, @runeight.

This is the most exciting amplifier in recent memory.

Thank you for continuing to design in retirement and working with Monoprice and Massdrop to make the amps affordable. 

I realize opinion is divided on the look, but I think the Liquid Platinum is gorgeous. Functional and utlitarian without sacrificing elegance and overall aesthetics.


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## PopZeus

I really got used to the blocky matte black look to Cavalli's MD collaborations. Tbh, I don't mind the color scheme of the Liquid Platinum but the basic shape strikes me more like a portable amp with the slant-tapered edges, which given its size is not really the case.


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## greenkiwi

I'm very very excited about this amp.

About the only thought I have is that the recessed tubes are rather painful to get tubes in/out.


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## ZenErik

greenkiwi said:


> I'm very very excited about this amp.
> 
> About the only thought I have is that the recessed tubes are rather painful to get tubes in/out.


I never had any issues getting tubes out of my Vali 2 or Valhalla 2. Wouldn't say it was any more difficult than other tube amps I've used.


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## Zachik

Going to be VERY interesting once people start comparing this one to the Schiit Lyr3.
I know Lyr3 is NOT balanced, but still...
I am literally going to hold off on the Lyr3 until this one comes out (or at least until reputable reviewers I trust start comparing them)


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## greenkiwi

It's too bad iFi doesn't have their iPower in 36V 1A.
https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-ipower/

And the iPurifier only goes to 24v
https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-ipower/


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## gr8soundz (Apr 20, 2018)

greenkiwi said:


> It's too bad iFi doesn't have their iPower in 36V 1A.
> https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-ipower/
> 
> And the iPurifier only goes to 24v
> https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-ipower/



I was thinking the same. Happens every time I see a barrel plug since getting the DC iPurifier.


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## runeight

gr8soundz said:


> I was thinking the same. Happens every time I see a barrel plug since getting the DC iPurifier.


 
As you guys think on linear supplies, note that you will need 36V 1.5A. The  platinum runs about 650mA at idle.


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## runeight

Here's the board that was just at CanJam.


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## bunkbail (Apr 20, 2018)

Maybe this is a dumb question, but can't you use 12V and 24V iFi iPower in series to power the Liquid Platinum? It seems plausible theoretically, but I don't know if its practical or not.

EDIT: I can't find any 24V iPower, so maybe 3 units of 12V/1.8A then?


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## runeight

bunkbail said:


> Maybe this is a dumb question, but can't you use 12V and 24V iFi iPower in series to power the Liquid Platinum? It seems plausible theoretically, but I don't know if its practical or not.
> 
> EDIT: I can't find any 24V iPower, so maybe 3 units of 12V/1.8A then?



I can't say that it won't work, I just suggest that you be really careful what you do. Do not exceed 36.5V under any circumstances.


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## Luckbad

There are quite a few old school linear power supplies that can be had for under $100 at the required ratings.

Power Designs Model 5015T and HP/Agilent/Keysight 6289A are excellent choices, for example (there are many more as well).

For marginally more DIY requirements, you can also make a best offer for an Acopian A36MT230 for less than $100.

Really, there are quite a few options. You can find some decent LPSUs from overseas at the required ratings (you'll likely need to ping them via eBay to get something at 36V), but I'm personally inclined toward the vintage regulated power supplies and happen to own 3 of them right now.


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## gr8soundz (Apr 20, 2018)

bunkbail said:


> Maybe this is a dumb question, but can't you use 12V and 24V iFi iPower in series to power the Liquid Platinum? It seems plausible theoretically, but I don't know if its practical or not.
> 
> EDIT: I can't find any 24V iPower, so maybe 3 units of 12V/1.8A then?



iPower only goes up to 15V and DC iPurifier can handle max 24V. Chaining them together may not work and might be unsafe above 24V/3.5A.

You'd think a standard IEC plug would be a better solution at 36V but perhaps too noisy.


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## bunkbail

gr8soundz said:


> iPower only goes up to 15V and DC iPurifier can handle max 24V. Chaining them together may not work and might be unsafe above 24V/3.5A.
> 
> You'd think a standard IEC plug would be a better solution at 36V but perhaps too noisy.


That's not what I said though. I never mentioned anything about DC iPurifier. I don't know how they do it but I've seen people running 3 units of Uptone LPS-1 in series, I can't see why you can't do that with iPower.


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## Luckbad

The iFi DC iPurifier and UpTone LPS-1 are completely different products. The iFi is a noise filter. The UpTone is a power supply.

It's possible to run some power supplies in series to increase voltage output or in parallel to increase current. The UpTone can be used in series to increase voltage. Multiple LPS-1s would be a massive waste of money. You're into modern lab power supply price territory and they're probably way better... Just an opinion though.

If you can fry the iFi above 24V, adding more filtration won't unfry the first unit. You'd have to contact iFi to see what they think, but I imagine if it could be rated for 36V it would be.

One other possibility if the Liquid Platinum's SMPS responds well to reactive loads is the @atomicbob Noise Nuke. It's a great, inexpensive project and works really well for certain power supplies.


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## bunkbail

Luckbad said:


> One other possibility if the Liquid Platinum's SMPS responds well to reactive loads is the @atomicbob Noise Nuke. It's a great, inexpensive project and works really well for certain power supplies.


It certainly is interesting! I can see that you also built one with a nice case. May I know where did you buy the case? I'm pretty intrigued to build one myself.


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## ZenErik

Has there been any info about the low and high gain settings on this? Thanks


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## m-i-c-k-e-y

Was looking for a 36v LPS myself thinking IF will be going this route. So far only ZeroZone (CN lps maker) say they can do it in 36v. Didn't gave me a price though


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## greenkiwi

> You'd have to contact iFi to see what they think, but I imagine if it could be rated for 36V it would be.

I've been thinking about contacting them to see whether they might do a group by if there was enough interest.  Was thinking that their iPower would be a more likely product for that.  Figured it doesn't hurt to ask.


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## greenkiwi

That noise nuke option looks interesting too, similar in effect to the iPurifier, just passive (and cheaper).


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## bunkbail (Apr 22, 2018)

I inquired to an AliExpress store about the availability of a 36V/2A linear PSU, they said they can build one at USD120 (apparently its ZeroZone branded). I don't know how good is this ZeroZone brand though.


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## snip3r77

Subbed..

Would this be better than Mjolnir 2 ?


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## LCMusicLover

snip3r77 said:


> Subbed..
> 
> Would this be better than Mjolnir 2 ?


That’s certainly the comparison I’m waiting for. Also anxious to hear about pairings with Auteur & Utopia.


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## alphanumerix1

Eagerly awaiting release date.


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## snip3r77 (May 20, 2018)

LCMusicLover said:


> That’s certainly the comparison I’m waiting for. Also anxious to hear about pairings with Auteur & Utopia.


I'm using an LCD-X hehe.

Probably need to invest on another LPS and this would bump up another $150


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## snip3r77

Ups ups ups


snip3r77 said:


> I'm using an LCD-X hehe.
> 
> Probably need to invest on another LPS and this would bump up another $150


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## NickedWicked

Subbed, mini balanced Liquid Crimson? Upgraded MCTH? Count me in!


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## Hansotek

NickedWicked said:


> Subbed, mini balanced Liquid Crimson? Upgraded MCTH? Count me in!



It is a balanced mini Crimson. No relation to the MCTH, which is a completely different circuit.


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## greenkiwi (May 29, 2018)

@runeight When you have some time, if you don't mind me asking, I'd love to hear what your favorite thing is about this amp and/or the process it's gone through?  Doesn't need to be sound related...


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## NickedWicked (May 29, 2018)

Hansotek said:


> It is a balanced mini Crimson. No relation to the MCTH, which is a completely different circuit.



Ah I see, I heard some peeps say in their impressions that the addictive tonality of the CTH remained in the Liquid Platinum just a lot more airy and quite a bit more detailed.

But that doesn’t say much about the internals of course. 

Edit: Anyone know the output impedance of this unit yet?


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## Hansotek

NickedWicked said:


> Ah I see, I heard some peeps say in their impressions that the addictive tonality of the CTH remained in the Liquid Platinum just a lot more airy and quite a bit more detailed.
> 
> But that doesn’t say much about the internals of course.
> 
> Edit: Anyone know the output impedance of this unit yet?



Yeah, that is an accurate description. Same midrange magic, a lot more air and detail, and a bit more impactful on the low end. I’d say it has more bite and tactility to it as a sort of overall sonic impression as well. If you love the sound of the CTH, the Platinum is the logical upgrade.

I believe the output impedance is <1 ohm. What are you trying to pair with it? I may have already tried something similar.


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## pbear

Hansotek said:


> Yeah, that is an accurate description. Same midrange magic, a lot more air and detail, and a bit more impactful on the low end. I’d say it has more bite and tactility to it as a sort of overall sonic impression as well. If you love the sound of the CTH, the Platinum is the logical upgrade.
> 
> I believe the output impedance is <1 ohm. What are you trying to pair with it? I may have already tried something similar.



Have you heard it with the Utopia? Although you no longer have the Liquid Carbon, how would you compare the Platinum to it?


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## NEXTLEVEL5

So this seems to have an external power adapter. Are there any benefits or drawbacks to that? I mostly see amps have power built in to the chassis and I'm wondering if having a power brick is a good or bad thing.


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## snip3r77

When will it be released??


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## NickedWicked

snip3r77 said:


> When will it be released??



June 26 2018 according to Monoprice.



Hansotek said:


> I believe the output impedance is <1 ohm. What are you trying to pair with it? I may have already tried something similar.



The Auteur and a Focal Clear mostly, although I might sell the Clear and get a Elex instead, but the relaxed midrange and treble on the Liquid Platinum might help out with the slight edginess and brightness of the Clear.


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## Hansotek

pbear said:


> Have you heard it with the Utopia? Although you no longer have the Liquid Carbon, how would you compare the Platinum to it?



I have heard the Liquid Crimson with the Utopia, but not the Platinum. Synergy with the Crimson was among the best I have heard, for sure (see impressions here). The Platinum probably sounds pretty similar, but without plugging the actual headphone into the actual amp, it’s hard to say. Mind you, my Crimson had a $400 power cable running into a heavily Class-A biased onboard power supply housed inside a larger chassis that can sink more heat - so there are going to be inherent differences because of that vs. an offboard SMPs and less Class-A bias. Still, I don’t believe the Utopia draws a great deal of power, so the results aren’t going to be night and day different. Just trying to be totally upfront and thorough in my answer for you there.

I haven’t compared head to head with the Carbon. From memory (so take it with a grain of salt), Platinum should have more bass impact, resolution and tightness. More neutral/balanced midrange body - less laid back/slightly dark like the Carbon. More open and energetic treble with slightly more command / control. The stage is also a little more big/open/immersive with slightly more tubey holographic depth. Overall, I would say it’s more forward and hard rocking and engaging vs. the Carbon, which is just a little more laid back.


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## franz12

NickedWicked said:


> June 26 2018 according to Monoprice.
> 
> 
> 
> The Auteur and a Focal Clear mostly, although I might sell the Clear and get a Elex instead, but the relaxed midrange and treble on the Liquid Platinum might help out with the slight edginess and brightness of the Clear.


The consensus seems elex is brighter than clear.


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## snip3r77

Hansotek said:


> I have heard the Liquid Crimson with the Utopia, but not the Platinum. Synergy with the Crimson was among the best I have heard, for sure (see impressions here). The Platinum probably sounds pretty similar, but without plugging the actual headphone into the actual amp, it’s hard to say. Mind you, my Crimson had a $400 power cable running into a heavily Class-A biased onboard power supply housed inside a larger chassis that can sink more heat - so there are going to be inherent differences because of that vs. an offboard SMPs and less Class-A bias. Still, I don’t believe the Utopia draws a great deal of power, so the results aren’t going to be night and day different. Just trying to be totally upfront and thorough in my answer for you there.
> 
> I haven’t compared head to head with the Carbon. From memory (so take it with a grain of salt), Platinum should have more bass impact, resolution and tightness. More neutral/balanced midrange body - less laid back/slightly dark like the Carbon. More open and energetic treble with slightly more command / control. The stage is also a little more big/open/immersive with slightly more tubey holographic depth. Overall, I would say it’s more forward and hard rocking and engaging vs. the Carbon, which is just a little more laid back.



I'm planning to combo with my LCD-X. What do you guys think?


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## Hansotek

snip3r77 said:


> I'm planning to combo with my LCD-X. What do you guys think?



I would think it would be a good match. I listened to the Platinum with the HE-500 quite a bit while I had it in house, and it was one of my favorite combos. Both sort of fall into that slightly-hard-to-drive, neutralish but punchy planar category.

I’ve also hear the LCD-X with the Crimson and it was really nice... based on those two factors, it’s probably a good match.


----------



## myap2328

Subbed to this, but just a quick couple questions... 

I thought Alex retired for his grandkids, so did he sell his designs to Massdrop and Monolith or is he working with them on like kind of a freelance basis? Anybody have any information on this? 

On another note, a used Carbon just came up on my local market for cheaps like 470USD, wondering whether I should go for them or wait out for the Plats, or should I consider a new CTH instead. Thanks!


----------



## greenkiwi

Not knowing the details, I'd imagine it is licensed and he helps with design but doesn't have to worry as much about about production and distribution.


----------



## Marlowe

Cavalli was definitely involved in the design of the Massdrop products bearing his name (though I obviously don't actually know, I get the impression that his involvement was pretty major, especially on the CTH) and he even made some appearances on the Massdrop forums discussing the design. I don't know about his involvement with the Monoprice Liquid Platinum, but I suspect it is similar.


----------



## Hansotek

Marlowe said:


> Cavalli was definitely involved in the design of the Massdrop products bearing his name (though I obviously don't actually know, I get the impression that his involvement was pretty major, especially on the CTH) and he even made some appearances on the Massdrop forums discussing the design. I don't know about his involvement with the Monoprice Liquid Platinum, but I suspect it is similar.



He’s been very involved with the process - all the prototypes, part picking, etc. Monoprice then has to source said parts, assemble units and distribute. It is very much Alex’s design, through and through - Monoprice just has to put them together and get them in your hands.


----------



## Jearly410

Hansotek said:


> He’s been very involved with the process - all the prototypes, part picking, etc. Monoprice then has to source said parts, assemble units and distribute. It is very much Alex’s design, through and through - Monoprice just has to put them together and get them in your hands.


Which is great for us customers. Lower price of entry


----------



## Egon

If anyone knows of a good linear power supply for this please let me know!


----------



## Moochibond

Will the LP be available via monoprice.uk?


----------



## myap2328

Hansotek said:


> He’s been very involved with the process - all the prototypes, part picking, etc. Monoprice then has to source said parts, assemble units and distribute. It is very much Alex’s design, through and through - Monoprice just has to put them together and get them in your hands.




That is great to hear. I thought I won’t ever have a chance to buy his products brand new following his retirement (because I could not afford them back when he was with Cavalli) but I guess as of now with Mono stepping in... We all can afford some good cavallis.

Btw, how does mono drive the price down so hard though? From a $499 portable amp to a $99 desktop one? Like just how... Did they move production to china or some sort like that


----------



## antdroid

myap2328 said:


> That is great to hear. I thought I won’t ever have a chance to buy his products brand new following his retirement (because I could not afford them back when he was with Cavalli) but I guess as of now with Mono stepping in... We all can afford some good cavallis.
> 
> Btw, how does mono drive the price down so hard though? From a $499 portable amp to a $99 desktop one? Like just how... Did they move production to china or some sort like that



Everything MP sells that’s their own brand is made in China. I’m also imagining the markup is significantly less since MP is a large retailer and not a boutique audiophile brand.


----------



## greenkiwi

In addition to the scale and manufacturing factors. It's likely that they also make other compromises in the process. An external switched power supply likely saves some money. The case is probably less expensive. There are likely other cost saving options too.


----------



## Hansotek

myap2328 said:


> That is great to hear. I thought I won’t ever have a chance to buy his products brand new following his retirement (because I could not afford them back when he was with Cavalli) but I guess as of now with Mono stepping in... We all can afford some good cavallis.
> 
> Btw, how does mono drive the price down so hard though? From a $499 portable amp to a $99 desktop one? Like just how... Did they move production to china or some sort like that



The battery and related circuitry were a huge cost that was eliminated from the equation. Plus cost of assembly and distribution is going to be a lot lower for a large company like Monoprice relative to a 3-5 man boutique shop like Cavalli. Also, the case work was simplified, though that wasn’t as big of a cost driver as the other two. The essential circuit remains the same, though it can now have more powerful voltage rails thanks to using a SMPS instead of the onboard power supply.


----------



## greenkiwi

The shipping date seems to have slipped to October 

Hopefully it will become undelayed.


----------



## KG Jag

greenkiwi said:


> The shipping date seems to have slipped to October
> 
> Hopefully it will become undelayed.



Link?


----------



## Egon

Wow rip October 

Here's the link: https://www.monoprice.com/product?c...1200801&p_id=33305&seq=1&format=2&res=1#qaTab


----------



## KG Jag

Egon said:


> Wow rip October
> 
> Here's the link: https://www.monoprice.com/product?c...1200801&p_id=33305&seq=1&format=2&res=1#qaTab



Man that's in small print--especially for old eyes.  I missed it the first time.


----------



## carlosgab

Egon said:


> Wow rip October
> 
> Here's the link: https://www.monoprice.com/product?c...1200801&p_id=33305&seq=1&format=2&res=1#qaTab


That is like Massdrop kind of waiting time lol


----------



## franz12 (Jun 5, 2018)

carlosgab said:


> That is like Massdrop kind of waiting time lol



But without charging upfront. Sadly, every high-end audio equipment (including their THX amp/dac) seems to be delayed.


----------



## i20bot

Dang October?  I have money saved too lol.


----------



## snip3r77

Just saying

the Liquid Carbon you can stack, but you can't for the monoprice.
First world's problem


----------



## elwappo99

Small update for you guys since we're in a delay without much info:


----------



## greenkiwi

Those look really nice!


----------



## snip3r77

elwappo99 said:


> Small update for you guys since we're in a delay without much info:



Oh pics.. any context? When is eta?


----------



## alphanumerix1

snip3r77 said:


> Oh pics.. any context? When is eta?



Pushed back til October afaik. Context would be helpful.


----------



## dBel84 (Jun 18, 2018)

Updated  late night posting .....dB

The real amps are looking very good.


----------



## elwappo99

alphanumerix1 said:


> Pushed back til October afaik. Context would be helpful.



Sorry, I don't have much inside on the details of the delays.


----------



## Zachik

elwappo99 said:


> Sorry, I don't have much inside on the details of the delays.


Someone compared those Monoprice amps to Massdrop couple weeks ago, in term of conceptual difference in business models... From my perspective:
Massdrop: You pay in advance, long waiting period, but *they deliver as promised / on time*.
Monoprice: You don't (and cannot) pay until ready to ship, but new items get delayed for many months! Those Cavalli amps originally were supposed to be shipped sometime in April. Now it is October, and I personally would not put any bets on that date either...


----------



## elwappo99

Zachik said:


> Someone compared those Monoprice amps to Massdrop couple weeks ago, in term of conceptual difference in business models... From my perspective:
> Massdrop: You pay in advance, long waiting period, but *they deliver as promised / on time*.
> Monoprice: You don't (and cannot) pay until ready to ship, but new items get delayed for many months! Those Cavalli amps originally were supposed to be shipped sometime in April. Now it is October, and I personally would not put any bets on that date either...



Interesting point for each, although I think there have been a lot of delays with massdrop drops as well. I think one of their current Sennheiser ones has had a month or so delay added. 

Either way, I'd rather things get done correctly rather than rushed with issues later. 



Alex Cavalli just commented on the delay:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mas...-dropping-monday.857673/page-49#post-14310452


----------



## runeight (Jun 18, 2018)

(Meant to post this here)

Hey folks, I've noticed the comments about the delays on the Monoprice products. Let me fill you in. 

It was mentioned that original availability was set for April. This was never the case. The original target was late June and things were moving along quite well until....

2018 Electronic Parts Shortages

You can find other articles regarding this problem. It is worldwide and affects nearly everyone in the electronics business from automotive suppliers to consumer electronics. And it affected these MP products.

Without going into great detail, an enormous amount of work had to be directed to finding substitutes for many of the parts. I know this because no part can be substituted without my approval. Inventories were dropping like stones every day. Suppliers were not able to keep up with demand.

Since a lot of subs were necessary, it was decided to take the time to get every single substitute part right and, in turn, accept the delay this would cause.

All of this has been solved and all parts acquired with, of course, a new schedule. We are not the only ones in this particular boat, as you can see from the article. 

I just thought you all might be interested to know the real reasons for the delays.


----------



## sahmen

runeight said:


> (Meant to post this here)
> 
> Hey folks, I've noticed the comments about the delays on the Monoprice products. Let me fill you in.
> 
> ...



Excellent update.  Very informative.  Thanks @runeight


----------



## Odin412

runeight said:


> Without going into great detail, an enormous amount of work had to be directed to finding substitutes for many of the parts. I know this because no part can be substituted without my approval.



Excellent! Well, not the additional workload for you and the Monoprice staff of course, but knowing that the Cavalli-branded amps will have components that are selected and approved by you. The Cavalli magic is worth waiting for.


----------



## PopZeus

I hope this parts shortage doesn’t mean a compromise in terms of sound or build quality. I’m a bit more relaxed when it comes to the massdrop collaborations. I’ve not really bought any Monoprice Monolith stuff yet.


----------



## Zachik

PopZeus said:


> *I hope this parts shortage doesn’t mean a compromise in terms of sound or build quality*. I’m a bit more relaxed when it comes to the massdrop collaborations. I’ve not really bought any Monoprice Monolith stuff yet.


Since Alex Cavalli is deeply involved (and needs to approve ANY change) - I am 100% sure there is no sound compromise!


----------



## runeight

PopZeus said:


> I hope this parts shortage doesn’t mean a compromise in terms of sound or build quality. I’m a bit more relaxed when it comes to the massdrop collaborations. I’ve not really bought any Monoprice Monolith stuff yet.



Well....this was largely the point of taking the schedule hit. To ensure that we had the time needed to find equal or better subs from known, reputable manufacturers. I think we're good.


----------



## PopZeus

runeight said:


> Well....this was largely the point of taking the schedule hit. To ensure that we had the time needed to find equal or better subs from known, reputable manufacturers. I think we're good.



Very happy to hear that you feel like the substitutions will be on par or better than the original specs. Might be too early to tell, and I suppose I should be asking MP this instead, but should we be open to the possibility of a price change as well?

Tbh, I hear about a parts shortage, (and of course it's almost impossible not to hear something about the impeding trade fiasco between the US and China) and I get a little freaked out about my favorite electronics hobby imploding. Thank you for talking me down!


----------



## runeight

Yes, between the parts shortages and possible trade war there are many uncertainties. I think that's really all we can say atm.


----------



## snip3r77

runeight said:


> Yes, between the parts shortages and possible trade war there are many uncertainties. I think that's really all we can say atm.


Thanks for the update . Is October firm?


----------



## Zachik

snip3r77 said:


> Thanks for the update . Is October firm?


Alex is (as many would testify, based on his designs) a magician. Not a prophet...


----------



## snip3r77

Since this amp is using 6922, hence sharing this article about them

https://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8


----------



## sahmen

Does anyone know how the Liquid Crimson compares in sound quality to the Little Dot tube amps (MKVI or MKVIII SE ?)... I am already committed to getting the Liquid Platinum, when it comes out, but I just saw the Little Dots on Massdrop and that made me somewhat curious.  One thing to consider is that, I am already biased against the Little Dot offerings because I suspect they might require a lot of Tube rolling to bring out their best, and I have neither the patience, the time, nor the money to experiment with too many tubes.  In theory, at least, I prefer the idea of the Liquid Platinum/Liquid Crimson hybrid topology which will not require much tube rolling, if any at all.  Besides, I already have the original Cavalli Liquid Carbon, which I love so I am looking at the Liquid Platinum/Crimson as an upgrade or enhancement of a house sound that I already know and enjoy, whereas I have no familiarity at all with the sound of the Little Dots.  Still I am normally open to trying new things, and if the Little Dot MKVIII SE, say, has something special about its SQ that competes favorably with that of the Liquid Crimson, I would like to know it, which is why I am asking.

Any helpful related thoughts would be highly appreciated.


----------



## Odin412

sahmen said:


> Does anyone know how the Liquid Crimson compares in sound quality to the Little Dot tube amps (MKVI or MKVIII SE ?)... I am already committed to getting the Liquid Platinum, when it comes out, but I just saw the Little Dots on Massdrop and that made me somewhat curious.  One thing to consider is that, I am already biased against the Little Dot offerings because I suspect they might require a lot of Tube rolling to bring out their best, and I have neither the patience, the time, nor the money to experiment with too many tubes.  In theory, at least, I prefer the idea of the Liquid Platinum/Liquid Crimson hybrid topology which will not require much tube rolling, if any at all.  Besides, I already have the original Cavalli Liquid Carbon, which I love so I am looking at the Liquid Platinum/Crimson as an upgrade or enhancement of a house sound that I already know and enjoy, whereas I have no familiarity at all with the sound of the Little Dots.  Still I am normally open to trying new things, and if the Little Dot MKVIII SE, say, has something special about its SQ that competes favorably with that of the Liquid Crimson, I would like to know it, which is why I am asking.
> 
> Any helpful related thoughts would be highly appreciated.



I'm in a similar situation as you as I have the original Liquid Carbon and I'm very intrigued by the upcoming Liquid Platinum. I haven't heard any of the Little Dot amps so I can't help you there - sorry.


----------



## elwappo99

sahmen said:


> Does anyone know how the Liquid Crimson compares in sound quality to the Little Dot tube amps (MKVI or MKVIII SE ?)... I am already committed to getting the Liquid Platinum, when it comes out, but I just saw the Little Dots on Massdrop and that made me somewhat curious.  One thing to consider is that, I am already biased against the Little Dot offerings because I suspect they might require a lot of Tube rolling to bring out their best, and I have neither the patience, the time, nor the money to experiment with too many tubes.  In theory, at least, I prefer the idea of the Liquid Platinum/Liquid Crimson hybrid topology which will not require much tube rolling, if any at all.  Besides, I already have the original Cavalli Liquid Carbon, which I love so I am looking at the Liquid Platinum/Crimson as an upgrade or enhancement of a house sound that I already know and enjoy, whereas I have no familiarity at all with the sound of the Little Dots.  Still I am normally open to trying new things, and if the Little Dot MKVIII SE, say, has something special about its SQ that competes favorably with that of the Liquid Crimson, I would like to know it, which is why I am asking.
> 
> Any helpful related thoughts would be highly appreciated.




I man that would be tough. Both those amps are so rare I would highly doubt anyone has had them side by side. I owned the VI+ and have heard the Crimson and Platinum, however those events were years apart. I did hear a Liquid Glass at the same time I owned the VI+. The Glass was by far the best I had heard my Hfiman HE-6. Killer amp. Bass control was something I didn't hear again until the HE-6 were hooked up on speaker taps.  

We were actually discussing the Little Dot VI+ yesterday at a meet. I really enjoyed the amp, and there's a good chance I would still own it and I would have stopped rolling out headphone amplifier... BUT .... the damn thing kept breaking. It costs $200 round trip to send it back to China for repair. It was under warranty, but you only get 1 year. I sold it and the next owner also had to send it back IIRC.


----------



## heliosphann (Jun 24, 2018)

I used to own a Crimson and original Liquid Carbon and did some A/Bing a few years ago between them. No doubt the Crimson (w/Holy Grail tube) was overall the better amp (technicalities like larger soundstage, better seperation, etc.), but they actually sounded very similar. I actually ended up selling the Crimson as I didn't see it being worth the 4x the price as the Liquid Carbon. Still think the original Carbon (at $599) is one of the best value amps to this day.

I haven't heard the Platinum yet, but at it's pricing if it sounds similar to the Crimson, it should be a fantastic bargain.


----------



## wasupdog

i'm in on this one when it comes out.  my only hope is that it's a better sounding version of the lower end CTH and carbon amps which are great in that price range.


----------



## MrPretty

It looks like they have photos of the amp now instead of just a rendering.


----------



## heliosphann

MrPretty said:


> It looks like they have photos of the amp now instead of just a rendering.



I personally love the design. Can't wait to get my hands on one!


----------



## Odin412

MrPretty said:


> It looks like they have photos of the amp now instead of just a rendering.



What do the symbols below the RCA single-ended inputs mean? High gain vs low gain?


----------



## cardeli22

Odin412 said:


> What do the symbols below the RCA single-ended inputs mean? High gain vs low gain?


Maybe input and output


----------



## snip3r77

MrPretty said:


> It looks like they have photos of the amp now instead of just a rendering.



Darn this can only stack on top of my "compact" DAC


----------



## Alcophone

Odin412 said:


> What do the symbols below the RCA single-ended inputs mean? High gain vs low gain?


I guess a straight line for line level in and a circle representing the volume knob for pre out.


----------



## SteezyRayVaughan

Is this still in line for an October launch? Deciding if I want to buy a Liquid Carbon X in the meantime.


----------



## KG Jag

Per the Monoprice web page for the amp, ETA is still 10/5/18.


----------



## SteezyRayVaughan

I hope it doesn't get delayed again. I'm falling deeper into this rabbit hole and I need to scratch this upgrade itch. I'm super curious as to how the Liquid Platinum will turn out.


----------



## Rhamnetin

SteezyRayVaughan said:


> I hope it doesn't get delayed again. I'm falling deeper into this rabbit hole and I need to scratch this upgrade itch. I'm super curious as to how the Liquid Platinum will turn out.



Just remember not to judge a book by its cover.


----------



## snip3r77

SteezyRayVaughan said:


> I hope it doesn't get delayed again. I'm falling deeper into this rabbit hole and I need to scratch this upgrade itch. I'm super curious as to how the Liquid Platinum will turn out.



Some might need a review before it’s released

I’m waiting patiently too


----------



## humblesquad

Will Liquid Platinum be sold on Amazon.com? International shipping fee is significantly cheaper on there than Monoprice.com.


----------



## snip3r77

ETA: 10/5/2018

Almost 1 month to go~~


----------



## Hansotek

snip3r77 said:


> Some might need a review before it’s released



Workin' on that for ya.


----------



## humblesquad

Hansotek said:


> Workin' on that for ya.



Can't wait your review (especially vs Liquid Crimson, and Liquid Carbon in your memory)


----------



## Hansotek

humblesquad said:


> Can't wait your review (especially vs Liquid Crimson, and Liquid Carbon in your memory)



It definitely shares a lot of sonic elements I loved about the Liquid Crimson. There are a couple of special things in the midrange that really brought me back.


----------



## sahmen (Aug 22, 2018)

Hansotek said:


> Workin' on that for ya.



Can't wait for this review...  Any possible teasers, spoilers, just to give us a little taste of what is to come?

PS.  I posted the above before seeing your last post, which describes exactly what I meant by "teaser"...

One thing I would like to know is to what extent the balanced topology of this iteration enhances or changes its sound vis-à-vis that of the Crimson, which wasn't a genuinely balanced amp. If you can comment on that, the gesture will be really appreciated.


----------



## sahmen

Not sure about this, but the Liquid Platinum certainly looks like a unit that would benefit from the use of an external power supply unit...  Does anyone know of a good power supply of 36 volts, 1.5A specs that might match and optimize the sq of the platinum?


----------



## Hansotek

sahmen said:


> Can't wait for this review...  Any possible teasers, spoilers, just to give us a little taste of what is to come?
> 
> PS.  I posted the above before seeing your last post, which describes exactly what I meant by "teaser"...
> 
> One thing I would like to know is to what extent the balanced topology of this iteration enhances or changes its sound vis-à-vis that of the Crimson, which wasn't a genuinely balanced amp. If you can comment on that, the gesture will be really appreciated.



I don't know if being balanced changes it that much, per se. There are other factors in the design that will play a larger role in any sonic changes, depending on the headphone. That being said, they sound pretty similar.


----------



## Hansotek

sahmen said:


> Not sure about this, but the Liquid Platinum certainly looks like a unit that would benefit from the use of an external power supply unit...  Does anyone know of a good power supply of 36 volts, 1.5A specs that might match and optimize the sq of the platinum?



I suspect you are right about this. Make no mistake, it definitely sounds really good with the SMPS, but I have a feeling it could scale to an even higher level with a linear PSU.


----------



## sahmen

Hansotek said:


> I don't know if being balanced changes it that much, per se. There are other factors in the design that will play a larger role in any sonic changes, depending on the headphone. That being said, they sound pretty similar.



I agree that whether balanced make any sonic difference might depend on different factors, particularly the headphone.  At any rate, in asking about the difference which "balanced" might make,. I did not mean to disparage the sound of the original Crimson, which had an almost legendary reputation among some headfiers for its sound quality.  If the Platinum winds up sounding as good as the Crimson, I will not complain at all, especially given that the Platinum's price will be about a fourth of that of the Crimson.


----------



## Hansotek

sahmen said:


> I agree that whether balanced make any sonic difference might depend on different factors, particularly the headphone.  At any rate, in asking about the difference which "balanced" might make,. I did not mean to disparage the sound of the original Crimson, which had an almost legendary reputation among some headfiers for its sound quality.  If the Platinum winds up sounding as good as the Crimson, I will not complain at all, especially given that the Platinum's price will be about a fourth of that of the Crimson.



I meant other factors such as the power supply, the physical size of the amplifier and the amount of class-A bias will probably have a greater effect on the sound, versus the balanced or unbalanced configuration. And how much effect any one of those has will depend on the headphone.

For example, a Fostex TH900’s sound is greatly impacted by an amplifier’s power supply. Will the Platinum be able to give you the same level of otherworldly impact as the Crimson? 

A low efficiency headphone like an Abyss or HE-6 will be greatly impacted by the class-A/class-A/B bias and the amplifier’s ability to dissipate heat. What, if any, changes can we expect?

These are the bigger factors I’m trying to suss out. Balanced vs. unbalanced is a highly speculative question, since the Crimson didn’t have balanced mode.

What I can tell you so far is that running a mid-efficiency headphone like the HE500 at medium volume in balanced mode sounds super similar to the Crimson. Not sure if I could tell the difference blind, based on my memory. I can also tell you this is the best pairing I’ve heard so far for the Campfire Cascade - like next level synergy there.

That’s about all I have so far, I still have to really put it through the rigors to see how it performs with different headphones.


----------



## greenkiwi

Hansotek said:


> I suspect you are right about this. Make no mistake, it definitely sounds really good with the SMPS, but I have a feeling it could scale to an even higher level with a linear PSU.



I'm kinda hoping that we could put a group buy into iFi for one of their iPower SMPSs.  Active filtering might be a nice cost effective performance improvement that matches the pricing & size of this amp.


----------



## LCMusicLover

greenkiwi said:


> I'm kinda hoping that we could put a group buy into iFi for one of their iPower SMPSs.  Active filtering might be a nice cost effective performance improvement that matches the pricing & size of this amp.


I don't think that would work.  The iPower only goes to 15V, but the LP needs 36V.

Unless I'm mis-reading the specs of one or the other?


----------



## runeight

LCMusicLover said:


> I don't think that would work.  The iPower only goes to 15V, but the LP needs 36V.
> 
> Unless I'm mis-reading the specs of one or the other?



You are correct about the Platinum PS.


----------



## snip3r77 (Aug 22, 2018)

Hansotek said:


> Workin' on that for ya.



1. May I know the output impedance for both SE and Balanced ?
Plan to at least use sensitive IEM for the SE part ( at least )

2. What is the amp signature?
Neutral/Warm
Thick Mids which I love

3. Does it have good heft with regards to the bass dept. ?

 Thanks


----------



## runeight

Measured Zo is approx 0.1R balanced 0.05R SE. Each amp will vary slightly from this.

I have learned that what an amp sounds like depends a lot on the listener. So, I think best for me is to let the community of buyers comment when they can.

Hansotek will have further comments and info as we approach Monolith's release date. This date is not known to me at the point.


----------



## greenkiwi

LCMusicLover said:


> I don't think that would work.  The iPower only goes to 15V, but the LP needs 36V.
> 
> Unless I'm mis-reading the specs of one or the other?



Correct, it would have to be a group buy with a custom build. There was a discussion where they said it was a possibility.


----------



## greenkiwi

The other thing I've been thinking about doing is adding a noise nuke.


----------



## Hansotek

snip3r77 said:


> 1. May I know the output impedance for both SE and Balanced ?
> Plan to at least use sensitive IEM for the SE part ( at least )
> 
> 2. What is the amp signature?
> ...


1.) which IEM?

2.) I would say very slightly warm. If you really value the mids, you are probably going to love this amp. Rich, velvety mids for sure. The word that comes to mind for me, strange as it may seem, is “smokey”. This amp will smoke your tunes like a brisket for 13 hours until they fall off the bone on the other side. The sound is simultaneously succulent and badass. It’s leather and velvet. I’m not sure if any of what I just said makes any sense, but that’s the same secret sauce as the Liquid Crimson had. 

3.) I would say so. It pleases me and I’m pretty picky. I guess it depends on your point of reference and the headphone you are using. Different headphones respond to different design elements differently. What amp are you coming from and what headphone are you using?


----------



## Zachik

Hansotek said:


> The word that comes to mind for me, strange as it may seem, is “smokey”. This amp will smoke your tunes like a *brisket* for 13 hours until they fall off the bone on the other side. The sound is simultaneously succulent and badass. It’s *leather* and velvet.


I guess this amp is not vegan-friendly... Good thing I am a carnivore!!


----------



## snip3r77

Hansotek said:


> 1.) which IEM?
> 
> 2.) I would say very slightly warm. If you really value the mids, you are probably going to love this amp. Rich, velvety mids for sure. The word that comes to mind for me, strange as it may seem, is “smokey”. This amp will smoke your tunes like a brisket for 13 hours until they fall off the bone on the other side. The sound is simultaneously succulent and badass. It’s leather and velvet. I’m not sure if any of what I just said makes any sense, but that’s the same secret sauce as the Liquid Crimson had.
> 
> 3.) I would say so. It pleases me and I’m pretty picky. I guess it depends on your point of reference and the headphone you are using. Different headphones respond to different design elements differently. What amp are you coming from and what headphone are you using?





I'm actually using LCD-X with the Geek Pulse Balanced. I'm looking to replace the amp part of the Geek Pulse. i also have a Massdrop Plus.


----------



## Hansotek

snip3r77 said:


> I'm actually using LCD-X with the Geek Pulse Balanced. I'm looking to replace the amp part of the Geek Pulse. i also have a Massdrop Plus.



I’ll check with similar gear... do you know the DAC’s voltage output for the Geek Pulse?


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y (Aug 23, 2018)

A while back about June, I asked the guys from ZeroZone (Glozone in Aliexpress, a chinese LPS maker) if they can make a 36V version of their LPS and they say yes.

Link to LPS in question: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...l?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.50.706b7d74oiO7kp

But hoping Monoprice could make a matching LPS for it.


----------



## MrPretty

Hansotek said:


> Workin' on that for ya.



Could you give the dimensions of the amp with the tubes installed?


----------



## sahmen (Aug 23, 2018)

Hansotek said:


> I meant other factors such as the power supply, the physical size of the amplifier and the amount of class-A bias will probably have a greater effect on the sound, versus the balanced or unbalanced configuration. And how much effect any one of those has will depend on the headphone.
> 
> For example, a Fostex TH900’s sound is greatly impacted by an amplifier’s power supply. Will the Platinum be able to give you the same level of otherworldly impact as the Crimson?
> 
> ...



Wow!  It is certainly great that you're considering all these extra useful factors, and your efforts as a reviewer are very welcome and appreciated.  Your mention of the He-500 is particularly appreciated, since it is one of the favored cans in my stable...  I got rid of my He-6 when I eventually got tired of getting all kinds of new amps for it, only to be told on this site that there are still, even more expensive, more bulky, and more powerful amps, that will make for a better pairing with it...  I am an ardent enthusiast, but I am not masochistic enough to relish life in a rabbit hole of which the bottom is always receding  . I did like what I could get from the He-6 with my class A HP amps, and speaker amps, but someone here was always making me suspect, in spite of my best efforts, that I could get a little more bass extension, or more separation, or more air, or more what have you, with a different amp...

Well, I find life with the other cans I have, the He-500, He-1000, the Audeze LCD-X, and even the Sennheiser HD-800, to be a lot less stressful in that respect, not to mention less expensive. 

Coming back to the Liquid Platinum, I am all in for the LPS group-buy idea...  I wonder whether I should ask the folks at Sbooster, whether they might be interested.


----------



## alphanumerix1

oh boi waits for review.


----------



## Hansotek

sahmen said:


> Wow!  It is certainly great that you're considering all these extra useful factors, and your efforts as a reviewer are very welcome and appreciated.  Your mention of the He-500 is particularly appreciated, since it is one of the favored cans in my stable...  I got rid of my He-6 when I eventually got tired of getting all kinds of new amps for it, only to be told on this site that there are still, even more expensive, more bulky, and more powerful amps, that will make for a better pairing with it...  I am an ardent enthusiast, but I am not masochistic enough to relish life in a rabbit hole of which the bottom is always receding  . I did like what I could get from the He-6 with my class A HP amps, and speaker amps, but someone here was always making me suspect, in spite of my best efforts, that I could get a little more bass extension, or more separation, or more air, or more what have you, with a different amp...
> 
> Well, I find life with the other cans I have, the He-500, He-1000, the Audeze LCD-X, and even the Sennheiser HD-800, to be a lot less stressful in that respect, not to mention less expensive.
> 
> Coming back to the Liquid Platinum, I am all in for the LPS group-buy idea...  I wonder whether I should ask the folks at Sbooster, whether they might be interested.



Thanks. Yeah, my experience was similar with the HE-6.

I would also be all in on the linear power supply. I would not be the least bit surprised if Monoprice decided to do one. I really hope they do.


----------



## wingsounds13

Another vote here for a Monoprice Linear Power Supply.  Hopefully a whole series, for all of our power supply needs.  

J.P.


----------



## Hansotek

MrPretty said:


> Could you give the dimensions of the amp with the tubes installed?



Roughly 8.75"W x 3.25"H x 9.25"D


----------



## sahmen

Hansotek said:


> Thanks. Yeah, my experience was similar with the HE-6.
> 
> I would also be all in on the linear power supply. I would not be the least bit surprised if Monoprice decided to do one. I really hope they do.


Yes, a monoprice LPS for this would be awesome, provided it is well-made.


----------



## MrPretty

Hansotek said:


> Roughly 8.75"W x 3.25"H x 9.25"D


Awesome! Thank you!


----------



## Odin412 (Aug 23, 2018)

Hansotek said:


> I would say very slightly warm. If you really value the mids, you are probably going to love this amp. Rich, velvety mids for sure. The word that comes to mind for me, strange as it may seem, is “smokey”. This amp will smoke your tunes like a brisket for 13 hours until they fall off the bone on the other side. The sound is simultaneously succulent and badass. It’s leather and velvet. I’m not sure if any of what I just said makes any sense, but that’s the same secret sauce as the Liquid Crimson had.



Wow, this sounds very interesting. I remember the Liquid Crimson from a previous CanJam and I thought that was one of the best amps at that show. I'm looking forward to hearing more of your impressions!


----------



## Zachik

@Hansotek - do you have a Massdrop CTH available? Would be very interesting (for me and many others) to read your opinions on how they compare...
Same goes for the Schiit Lyr3.
I know the Platinum is a step up from CTH, but as always - differences you hear (or do not hear) is the only thing that count at the end of the day


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

snip3r77 said:


> I'm actually using LCD-X with the Geek Pulse Balanced. I'm looking to replace the amp part of the Geek Pulse. i also have a Massdrop Plus.



Looks like we're on the same line of thinking...replacing the amp part of the Geek Pulse that is.


----------



## Hansotek

Zachik said:


> @Hansotek - do you have a Massdrop CTH available? Would be very interesting (for me and many others) to read your opinions on how they compare...
> Same goes for the Schiit Lyr3.
> I know the Platinum is a step up from CTH, but as always - differences you hear (or do not hear) is the only thing that count at the end of the day



CTH, yes. Lyr 3, no.


----------



## Zachik

Zachik said:


> @Hansotek - do you have a Massdrop CTH available? Would be very interesting (for me and many others) to read your opinions on how they compare...
> Same goes for the Schiit Lyr3.
> I know the Platinum is a step up from CTH, but as always - differences you hear (or do not hear) is the only thing that count at the end of the day





Hansotek said:


> CTH, yes. Lyr 3, no.


Cool - looking forward to your full review, and comparison to CTH in particular.
And I hope to see you again at RMAF


----------



## Hansotek

Zachik said:


> Cool - looking forward to your full review, and comparison to CTH in particular.
> And I hope to see you again at RMAF



Yep! I'll see you there!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Hansotek said:


> CTH, yes. Lyr 3, no.



Would you like to borrow my Lyr 3 and a selection of tubes for your review? Shot me a PM if so.


----------



## Hansotek

snip3r77 said:


> I'm actually using LCD-X with the Geek Pulse Balanced. I'm looking to replace the amp part of the Geek Pulse. i also have a Massdrop Plus.



On the IEM, Alex mentioned to me that this amp wasn't really intended for driving IEMs (that's really what the Carbon is for). There wouldn't be a ton of volume play and you may run into the noise floor. HOWEVER, there is hope. I just tried the Platinum with the iFi IEMatch and the super-sensitive Andromeda, and that combo worked very, very well. Sounded great and there was plenty of volume play (this is all out of the SE output, FYI). 

IMO, the IEMatch is a great $50 investment if you have sensitive IEMs - regardless of whether or not you're using the Platinum - because it makes your phone a much more viable source and opens up your selection of amps and DAPs a bit. I got it so I can use the Andromedas with the Acoustic Research M2, which has a fantastic sounding all-class-A amp that is simply too noisy for most IEMs (but can drive the heck out of planars and 300 ohm headphones). Anyway, even the hyper-sensitive Andromeda is dead quiet on the M2 with the IEMatch.  Same goes for the Liquid Platinum. Dead quiet and sounds damn good too!


----------



## Hansotek

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Would you like to borrow my Lyr 3 and a selection of tubes for your review? Shot me a PM if so.



YGPM


----------



## snip3r77

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> Looks like we're on the same line of thinking...replacing the amp part of the Geek Pulse that is.



Yeah I’m pretty ok with the DAC part since Larry did a very good job and supported by his measurements 

What’s your other amp contenders atm besides this?


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y (Aug 24, 2018)

Just one. Was thinking the Pure Bipolar/Dynalo Mk2 Susy by Mjolnir Audio (Spritzer)
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mjolnir-audio-pure-bipolar-amplifier.807384/

Have purchased some 6922 tubes for the Geek HPA that I was talking w/ Larry and this came along.


----------



## greenkiwi

snip3r77 said:


> I'm actually using LCD-X with the Geek Pulse Balanced. I'm looking to replace the amp part of the Geek Pulse. i also have a Massdrop Plus.





m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> Looks like we're on the same line of thinking...replacing the amp part of the Geek Pulse that is.



Me three.

I keep dreaming the geek HPA will materialize... But in going to have to enjoy this, just like I'm enjoying my Hiby R3.  I tried the xCTH but it didn't do it for me.


----------



## koven

Will this actually be available in Oct or chance of delayed again?


----------



## LCMusicLover

koven said:


> Will this actually be available in Oct or chance of delayed again?


They keep saying ‘should hold’.


----------



## LCMusicLover

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> A while back about June, I asked the guys from ZeroZone (Glozone in Aliexpress, a chinese LPS maker) if they can make a 36V version of their LPS and they say yes.
> 
> Link to LPS in question: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...l?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.50.706b7d74oiO7kp
> 
> But hoping Monoprice could make a matching LPS for it.


Similar thinking.  I saw this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/122866202627?ul_noapp=true
on eBay, and sent the folllowing:



> Hello: Monoprice is coming out with a new power amplifier:
> Monolith by Monoprice Liquid Platinum Headphone Amplifier by Alex Cavalli
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=33305
> ...


They responded:


> Hello
> Ok, we can custom-make one of this linear power supply DC36V 1.5A.
> 
> for 1 unit, The price 135USD
> ...



It's great to have options, but I have no idea how to pick the _best_ one.


----------



## alphanumerix1 (Sep 2, 2018)

110v only? RIP

What about the rest of the world? No switch.

Thats a real kick in the teeth for users outside of the U.S


----------



## humblesquad

ETA is now 10/17/2018


----------



## Roscoeiii

humblesquad said:


> ETA is now 10/17/2018


My birthday!


----------



## KG Jag

Roscoeiii said:


> My birthday!



We know your birthday can't change, but....


----------



## greenkiwi

alphanumerix1 said:


> 110v only? RIP
> 
> What about the rest of the world? No switch.
> 
> Thats a real kick in the teeth for users outside of the U.S



Given that it's an smps, I'm really surprised it is 110v only. If it is, one could always get a different external PSU.


----------



## runeight

It is a universal power brick, but it has a US plug. To move elsewhere it just needs the plug adapter.


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y (Sep 2, 2018)

Thanks! Save us the hassle to buy another.


----------



## alphanumerix1

runeight said:


> It is a universal power brick, but it has a US plug. To move elsewhere it just needs the plug adapter.



thanks for clarifying


----------



## snip3r77

humblesquad said:


> ETA is now 10/17/2018



about 6 weeks ETA~~


----------



## LCMusicLover

snip3r77 said:


> about 6 weeks ETA~~


You must have one of them new fangled calendar thingees. Wish I could afford me one o' them


----------



## sahmen

On the Power Supply Front, I recently sent a note to SBooster, inquiring about a possible Sbooster LPS for the Liquid Platinum, and also a possible group buy, and this is the response I have just received from them:

*******************
Hello .....,


Thank you for your email and nice to read that you are using one of our upgrade products.


I have checked the Monoprice Liquid Platinum Headphone Amplifier and it looks like a very nice tube amplifier. I understand immediately your idea that the Amplifier might need a power supply upgrade to perform at its best.


Unfortunately the linear power supplies that we have in our program go to 24V maximum. The output ratings of our current designs cannot easily be adjusted to 35V – 1.5A and an audio grade version from our side needs to be developed from scratch.


The philosophy of our products is not just selling power supplies, *we sell sound quality improvement products*. The development of a new unit not only involves the technical design of the product, afterwards we spend a lot of time in fine tuning and optimising the sound quality performance of the unit. Due to the introduction of our new MKII range, time is lacking at this moment to arrange this on time for your group buy.


I am sorry that we cannot help you further.


Have a nice day.


Met vriendelijke groet/ Kind regards,

*Sbooster*



Wiebren Draaijer

************************************

Now my understanding is that given their exactingly demanding conditions of production, and their concern with sound quality performance, which requires a lot of time and fine-tuning, they cannot realistically consider producing an LPS for a product that is scheduled for release one month from now, especially not when a group-buy is involved...

I am not entirely giving up on them, though, because, I think it is those very demanding standards of theirs, and especially, their obsession with producing great sound quality, that make their products particularly attractive for a unit such as the Liquid Platinum.

All Linear Power Supplies are not created Equal, as I'm sure everyone would agree. A patiently fine-tuned LPS, that is optimized for great sound quality would, eventually, be much preferable, in my opinion,  than a more easily obtainable one that only produces mediocre or lackluster results...  I want to continue encouraging SBooster to consider making an LPS for the Liquid Platinum, even if it would take them a whole year to come up with one that meets their exacting requirements...  I would always be willing to give an LPS like that a trial, even if it comes out a year or two from now...


----------



## koven

snip3r77 said:


> about 6 weeks ETA~~



I wouldn't be surprised if it's delayed again, hope not though, I want to try this amp!


----------



## MrPretty

Looks like its been bumped to 10/30/18 now.


----------



## Zachik

Am I the only one that feels like this:


----------



## KG Jag

Who has a birthday on October 30?


----------



## XERO1

Zachik said:


> Am I the only one that feels like this:


That's why I _never_ trust a release date.

I just take the view of id Software's John Carmack.  If it isn't vaporware to begin with, it will eventually be released "when it's done".


----------



## runeight

One more day and it will be released on Halloween. Anything could happen then.............


----------



## snip3r77

MrPretty said:


> Looks like its been bumped to 10/30/18 now.


I’m targeting before Christmas


----------



## snip3r77

KG Jag said:


> Who has a birthday on October 30?


Mine is 9/18


----------



## Zachik

snip3r77 said:


> Mine is 9/18


I guess we all know what you're NOT getting for your birthday then...


----------



## franz12

This delay is unpleasantly acceptable. However, lack of quality would not be acceptable. A product of high quality is all that matters at the end.


----------



## KG Jag

Zachik said:


> I guess we all know what you're NOT getting for your birthday then...



Let's hope not.  It would be no earlier than 2019!


----------



## i20bot

damn, been waiting to buy this because my Project Horizon is driving me nuts with it's manual biasing.  Keeps hissing at me everyday.  Just wanna drop kick it.


----------



## alphanumerix1

I'd wait til 2019 if that ensures the best product Alex and monoprice can produce at that price.


----------



## Zachik

I understand that sometimes Schiit happens, but the repeated delays tell me someone at Monoprice screwed up planning, big time!
Compare that to Massdrop - their collaboration products usually have 6+ months of wait time, but so far (from my personal experience) they ALL shipped on time (couple shipped a few days early). That includes 2 Cavalli amps that I got from them (LCX and CTH)...


----------



## LCMusicLover

Zachik said:


> I understand that sometimes Schiit happens, but the repeated delays tell me someone at Monoprice screwed up planning, big time!
> Compare that to Massdrop - their collaboration products usually have 6+ months of wait time, but so far (from my personal experience) they ALL shipped on time (couple shipped a few days early). That includes 2 Cavalli amps that I got from them (LCX and CTH)...


As someone who waited through the 1+ year delay for the release of the iBasso It-04, I will say that the wait _can_ be worth it.


----------



## Zachik

LCMusicLover said:


> As someone who waited through the 1+ year delay for the release of the iBasso It-04, I will say that the wait _can_ be worth it.


I was trying to make the distinction between:
* Massdrop: long wait, but deliver on time
* Monoprice: shorter wait, but keep delaying, over and over, and eventually the wait seem much longer than Massdrop

So, it is all about planning and manufacturing execution! That, and setting the right expectations with customers...


----------



## snip3r77

Zachik said:


> I was trying to make the distinction between:
> * Massdrop: long wait, but deliver on time
> * Monoprice: shorter wait, but keep delaying, over and over, and eventually the wait seem much longer than Massdrop
> 
> So, it is all about planning and manufacturing execution! That, and setting the right expectations with customers...


Maybe th founder can chime abit


----------



## LCMusicLover

This


Zachik said:


> ...but keep delaying, over and over, and eventually the wait seem much longer...


was the IT-04 story.

In fact, they said 'Real soon now' and 'within a couple months' several times over the course of 14 months. They actually brought out a whole different IEM (IT-01) first.


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y (Sep 13, 2018)

OT¦ON

Plain chicken compared to LH Labs's Geek Wave. 

OT¦OFF


----------



## Marlowe

Admittedly not headphones or related gear, but anyone remember the PC game Nuke Nukem Forever? Announced in 1997 and initially expected to release in 1998 or 1999. Delayed again and again. Finally, several developers later, the game (to the surprise of everyone) was actually released. In 2011.


----------



## Alcophone

Marlowe said:


> Admittedly not headphones or related gear, but anyone remember the PC game Nuke Nukem Forever? Announced in 1997 and initially expected to release in 1998 or 1999. Delayed again and again. Finally, several developers later, the game (to the surprise of everyone) was actually released. In 2011.


I wish that was the story of the Ossic X.


----------



## alphanumerix1

I'm excited about this product but need more listening impressions...


----------



## alphanumerix1

Hansotek said:


> I meant other factors such as the power supply, the physical size of the amplifier and the amount of class-A bias will probably have a greater effect on the sound, versus the balanced or unbalanced configuration. And how much effect any one of those has will depend on the headphone.
> 
> For example, a Fostex TH900’s sound is greatly impacted by an amplifier’s power supply. Will the Platinum be able to give you the same level of otherworldly impact as the Crimson?
> 
> ...



Can you (allowed too) expand any further on your impressions with the unit? Now that you have more time with it.


----------



## Hansotek

alphanumerix1 said:


> Can you (allowed too) expand any further on your impressions with the unit? Now that you have more time with it.



I am finishing up a full review, which should be up next week.


----------



## alphanumerix1

Hansotek said:


> I am finishing up a full review, which should be up next week.



Awesome very much looking forward to it cheers!


----------



## Slashn77

Thinking about getting a Lyr 3 when they come back in stock first week of October but now i read this thread and it has my intrigued! If I dont need balanced should I just stick with Lyr 3 and save $200 with a fulled tried and tested/review product


----------



## snip3r77

Any idea what is the output impedance?


----------



## Hansotek

Slashn77 said:


> Thinking about getting a Lyr 3 when they come back in stock first week of October but now i read this thread and it has my intrigued! If I dont need balanced should I just stick with Lyr 3 and save $200 with a fulled tried and tested/review product



Based on the headphones in your sig, I'd like this better. YMMV, of course.


----------



## Hansotek

snip3r77 said:


> Any idea what is the output impedance?


Pretty sure it's less than 1 ohm. @runeight could tell you for sure.


----------



## LCMusicLover

snip3r77 said:


> Any idea what is the output impedance?


Very low per this:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...-by-alex-cavalli.876406/page-11#post-14439274

post.


----------



## elwappo99

alphanumerix1 said:


> I'm excited about this product but need more listening impressions...



I've posted impressions elsewhere on the internet, but in short I got to listen to the demo at the LA show in April with my UERM and HD800 and was thoroughly impressed. I think this guy will set a new price performance ratio.

Hats off to monoprice on this


----------



## Zulkr9

This would be an absolute winner if they had a similar voicing to the MCTH with better technicalities


----------



## humblesquad

My interest is how Platinum is crisp and clear like SS amps. I like Liquid Carbon X, it's crisp and clear, but a bit less dynamic than tube amps. If Platinum is crisp, clear and dynamic, it's my dream amp.


----------



## Hansotek

Zulkr9 said:


> This would be an absolute winner if they had a similar voicing to the MCTH with better technicalities



It has a lot of similarities. I would say it is a little warmer than the MCTH overall. It does have better technicalities for sure. When you go from the MCTH to the LP, it's like you're adding another whole layer onto the music.


----------



## Hansotek

humblesquad said:


> My interest is how Platinum is crisp and clear like SS amps. I like Liquid Carbon X, it's crisp and clear, but a bit less dynamic than tube amps. If Platinum is crisp, clear and dynamic, it's my dream amp.



Dynamic relative to what? Tube amps vary greatly in terms of dynamics.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Hansotek said:


> Dynamic relative to what? Tube amps vary greatly in terms of dynamics.


I guess that at a minimum, @humblesquad hopes it will be more dynamic than the LCX.

BTW, I've been poking around various tube amp options for a while.  I'd really like to find an amp which pairs well with both Utopia and Auteur.  Strongest recommendation I've gotten so far is for the Little Dot VI+.  LD recommended that over the Mark 8 for Utopia due to impedance matching issues.

I'm hoping the LP will be a good pairing with both.  Especially since it looks like I could easily blow up cost of the LD when I start tube rolling.  Tube rolling in the LP looks to be less painful financially


----------



## runeight

Hey gents, I'd like to make a small, quick clarification.

The Platinum is not a "tube" amp. It is a tube/SS hybrid. So is the CTH.

The CTH is a classic type of hybrid with a tube front end coupled to SS power output through a coupling cap. The Platinum is an embedded hybrid where the tubes are embedded into the circuit with the SS devices. There are no coupling caps in the Platinum, it is DC coupled from input to output.

So, when I think about the different amps, I tend to make a distinction between a full tube amp with a tube output stage driving the headphones and a hybrid where the output is SS.

I have been doing embedded since forever. I like them bc I feel that they blend the best of what tubes do and what SS does. MHO, of course.


----------



## LCMusicLover

runeight said:


> Hey gents, I'd like to make a small, quick clarification.
> 
> The Platinum is not a "tube" amp. It is a tube/SS hybrid. So is the CTH.
> 
> ...


Understood, and I appreciate the input.  Same story with the Schiit MJ2 and many other 'Tube' amps. So I get that I'm not going to be comparing apples to apples when I discuss differences between (say) the LD VI+ and the LP. And that's fine with me as I try to sneak into the tube world.


----------



## alphanumerix1

looking forward to reviews.


----------



## KaiserTK

I have fallen in love with the system of Gumby>CTH(w/LPS)>HD650. 
It'll be interesting to see how good the LP's synergy is with the Sennheiser HPs and whether the stock tubes end up being a keeper like the CTH. 
Shame I won't see it at RMAF, but I look forward to reading the reviews!


----------



## MrPretty

It keeps trickling back, ETA 11/02/18 now.


----------



## alphanumerix1

Hopefully before the end of the year.


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

MrPretty said:


> It keeps trickling back, ETA 11/02/18 now.



Yes! In time for the Holloween party!!


----------



## LCMusicLover

Due date now 11/2.

At least that's a very small move.  Suggests they're getting close.


----------



## snip3r77

LCMusicLover said:


> Due date now 11/2.
> 
> At least that's a very small move.  Suggests they're getting close.



I think before Christmas is fine


----------



## Slim1970

Here’s a review of this amp. It looks very promising:

Enjoy the Music review of the Monoprice Monolith Liquid Platinum


----------



## PopZeus

I look forward to reading the reviews on this one. I'm not currently looking at getting another amp, and I can't be bothered to deal with tubes, but I do love my LCX. So, I'm fully on board with these Cavalli collabs on principle alone.


----------



## alphanumerix1

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> Yes! In time for the Holloween party!!



I laughed out loud almost choked on my coffee hahaha

Thanks for that!


----------



## alphanumerix1

Slim1970 said:


> Here’s a review of this amp. It looks very promising:
> 
> Enjoy the Music review of the Monoprice Monolith Liquid Platinum



Not bad at all.


----------



## sahmen

Slim1970 said:


> Here’s a review of this amp. It looks very promising:
> 
> Enjoy the Music review of the Monoprice Monolith Liquid Platinum


It is a very richly and sensitively rendered review.. It brought expressions such as "labor of love" to mind... I like the comparisons to Liquid Crimson, although they were to be expected. Selfishly though, I would have liked his take on how the LP compares sonically with the Liquid Carbon, because it is the one Cavalli amp with which I am familiar (I have the LIquid Carbon v1, and it seems the reviewer also had it on hand for comparison, but I do not remember the review actually mentioning it)...

It has got me thinking that a good linear power supply is a must for this amp in order to optimize its performance...  Personally, owning the LP without a good LPS will certainly have me second guessing it all the time, and that will not be kosher at all.

BTW, is that the review @Hansotek has been promising on this thread for some time now? It seems so, but I would like to have that confirmed, so that i can ask him questions about the sonic comparison of the LP and the Liquid Carbon I mentioned...


----------



## heliosphann

sahmen said:


> It is a very richly and sensitively rendered review.. It brought expressions such as "labor of love" to mind... I like the comparisons to Liquid Crimson, although they were to be expected. Selfishly though, I would have liked his take on how the LP compares sonically with the Liquid Carbon, because it is the one Cavalli amp with which I am familiar (I have the LIquid Carbon v1, and it seems the reviewer also had it on hand for comparison, but I do not remember the review actually mentioning it)...
> 
> It has got me thinking that a good linear power supply is a must for this amp in order to optimize its performance...  Personally, owning the LP without a good LPS will certainly have me second guessing it all the time, and that will not be kosher at all.
> 
> BTW, is that the review @Hansotek has been promising on this thread for some time now? It seems so, but I would like to have that confirmed, so that i can ask him questions about the sonic comparison of the LP and the Liquid Carbon I mentioned...



Yea, that's @Hansotek. I'm not sure if he still has an original Liquid Carbon anymore.


----------



## sahmen

heliosphann said:


> Yea, that's @Hansotek. I'm not sure if he still has an original Liquid Carbon anymore.


Yes, I am also not entirely sure, because on his profile page the LC is listed as sold... On the other hand, it appears in the review under the list of "*Additional Equipment Used in This Review," and that makes it seem as if he had it on hand for comparisons at the time of the review...

I guess @Hansotek can clarify that issue of the status of the LC whenever he returns to this thread.*


----------



## Slim1970

sahmen said:


> It is a very richly and sensitively rendered review.. It brought expressions such as "labor of love" to mind... I like the comparisons to Liquid Crimson, although they were to be expected. Selfishly though, I would have liked his take on how the LP compares sonically with the Liquid Carbon, because it is the one Cavalli amp with which I am familiar (I have the LIquid Carbon v1, and it seems the reviewer also had it on hand for comparison, but I do not remember the review actually mentioning it)...
> 
> It has got me thinking that a good linear power supply is a must for this amp in order to optimize its performance...  Personally, owning the LP without a good LPS will certainly have me second guessing it all the time, and that will not be kosher at all.
> 
> BTW, is that the review @Hansotek has been promising on this thread for some time now? It seems so, but I would like to have that confirmed, so that i can ask him questions about the sonic comparison of the LP and the Liquid Carbon I mentioned...


You don't think the supplied power supply will be enough? I get that linear power supplies help in most cases but with the design and delays of this amp I hope it wouldn't be a necessity.


----------



## Panimation

Getting excited for this, seems to be ticking all the right boxes for me .


----------



## LCMusicLover

sahmen said:


> ...Personally, owning the LP without a good LPS will certainly have me second guessing it all the time, and that will not be kosher at all...


I can relate to this sentiment.


----------



## sahmen

Slim1970 said:


> You don't think the supplied power supply will be enough? I get that linear power supplies help in most cases but with the design and delays of this amp I hope it wouldn't be a necessity.



Well, it seems well established that the supplied SMPS power supply will be "okay" for the LP, but just okay, which means not necessarily optimal... The point was well made by @Luckbad, earlier in this thread here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...m-by-alex-cavalli.876406/page-3#post-14186600



Luckbad said:


> I was was taking a gander at the Platinum yet again today and a couple of things stood out regarding the size:
> 
> Offloading the power supply to external saves a ton of size/weight. It will also potentially cripple some of the amp's potential without some really good cleanup once inside the chassis. I'll be using a linear power supply with the Liquid Platinum for sure.
> Looking at an old shot of the Platinum seems to show two PCBs stacked on top of one another. Am I crazy? That's what I think I'm seeing in the shot, which would certainly account for most of the rest of the size difference.
> ...


----------



## Roscoeiii

My main questions after reading the review: 

1) Re: "Dr. Cavalli has also included a protection circuit on the Platinum just to help ensure against damage. I accidentally triggered it a couple of times trying to plug in headphones with the volume up and bassy music playing. Oops. Triggering the protection circuit will cause the light on the front to turn red and music will stop playing for about 30 seconds while the amp takes a little siesta." I'd love to know more details about what headphones and what volume levels we are talking about that triggered the protection circuitry. Was this anywhere close to normal listening levels? And would having an LPS impact the likelihood of triggering the protection circuitry? I don't imagine it would, but that is really just a barely educated guess. 

2) As comes up again and again, how would an LPS change the sound? 

3) Tube rolling. How well does this amp respond to swapping in different tubes. My impression from the CTH thread is that the CTH sound wasn't significantly changed by tube rolling. But this of course is a different topology. 

As with everyone here, looking forward to the release and additional impressions.


----------



## Hansotek

sahmen said:


> It is a very richly and sensitively rendered review.. It brought expressions such as "labor of love" to mind... I like the comparisons to Liquid Crimson, although they were to be expected. Selfishly though, I would have liked his take on how the LP compares sonically with the Liquid Carbon, because it is the one Cavalli amp with which I am familiar (I have the LIquid Carbon v1, and it seems the reviewer also had it on hand for comparison, but I do not remember the review actually mentioning it)...
> 
> It has got me thinking that a good linear power supply is a must for this amp in order to optimize its performance...  Personally, owning the LP without a good LPS will certainly have me second guessing it all the time, and that will not be kosher at all.
> 
> BTW, is that the review @Hansotek has been promising on this thread for some time now? It seems so, but I would like to have that confirmed, so that i can ask him questions about the sonic comparison of the LP and the Liquid Carbon I mentioned...



Yup. That's me. Sorry, busy day coincided with the release of the review. I'm on here, and open to follow up questions. 

On the power supply, I think that this amp + a $200-$300 power supply is going to measure up very well against stuff that's in the $1,500-$2,000 range for under $1K total spend. Speculative, of course, but if one is experienced in such things, it seems like a safe bet. I'd love to hear it with an LPS against the iFi Pro iCan (which is $1,699, IIRC). I think that comparison would be very, very interesting. 



sahmen said:


> Yes, I am also not entirely sure, because on his profile page the LC is listed as sold... On the other hand, it appears in the review under the list of "*Additional Equipment Used in This Review," and that makes it seem as if he had it on hand for comparisons at the time of the review...
> 
> I guess @Hansotek can clarify that issue of the status of the LC whenever he returns to this thread.*



Yes, I had a Liquid Carbon for a little bit during the beginning of the review because @MTMECraig loaned me his while I was reviewing the HeadAmp Gilmore Lite MkII. I should have compared them in more depth when I had the opportunity to listen to both. The Platinum is a little bit better, but not as big of a leap as the Crimson. It's a slightly more neutral take than the LC, I think, which runs a tad on the warmer side. Both are very, very good amps, to be sure. Again, I really feel like the SMPS is the limitation between a very good sounding amp and something that is absolutely spectacular. I think if someone plugged $200-$300 into getting the power supply to the next level this amp would be just a hair or two away from the actual Crimson.


----------



## Hansotek

Slim1970 said:


> You don't think the supplied power supply will be enough? I get that linear power supplies help in most cases but with the design and delays of this amp I hope it wouldn't be a necessity.



It's not an absolute necessity. But I would sink my money in there before spending it on some NOS tubes, if you're itching for an incremental upgrade. It's a very good value at $699, I just can't help but feel there is some scalability left.


----------



## Hansotek

Roscoeiii said:


> My main questions after reading the review:
> 
> 1) Re: "Dr. Cavalli has also included a protection circuit on the Platinum just to help ensure against damage. I accidentally triggered it a couple of times trying to plug in headphones with the volume up and bassy music playing. Oops. Triggering the protection circuit will cause the light on the front to turn red and music will stop playing for about 30 seconds while the amp takes a little siesta." I'd love to know more details about what headphones and what volume levels we are talking about that triggered the protection circuitry. Was this anywhere close to normal listening levels? And would having an LPS impact the likelihood of triggering the protection circuitry? I don't imagine it would, but that is really just a barely educated guess.
> 
> ...



Hey buddy! Too bad we didn't have one of the Chicago meets while I had this one. Would have loved to know what you thought!

1. Good question. Triggering the circuit only happened to me twice while I had the amp. It happens to me pretty frequently on the CTH, IME. It happens when you are actually _*plugging in*_ a headphone that is trying to draw a lot of current immediately *with the volume up*. I was comparing the subbass on a couple amps with the Denon D2000 - while it's an easy headphone to drive, generally speaking, it can draw a lot of current for subbbass, especially with the volume way up. These were not normally listening conditions. This is me being an idiot seeing how far I can push the power supply. If I turned down the volume pot, there wouldn't have been a problem. I left it up to volume match. I actually plugged in some higher current draw headphones like HE500 just fine w/o triggering the circuit. It really only kicks on if you're acting like a moron like me. 

2. A good LPS should theoretically lower the noise floor- removing some level of grain from the treble, making the staging seem a little more precise, and making the sound more clear/transparent. I should also give the bass more balls and impact. It will move the "total build" of the amplifier closer to that of a Liquid Crimson by giving it a more hearty power source to draw from.  

3. On tube rolling - yes! I did explore this. I rolled in some Amperex Bugle Boys and the difference was small but noticeable. If you've rolled tubes in the CTH, I would say you can expect a relatively similar amount of change. For those who want incremental improvement on the sound though, I would say, save up a little $$ and change out the power supply first. I have heard several people say the same thing about the CTH, as well.


----------



## Roscoeiii

Hansotek said:


> Hey buddy! Too bad we didn't have one of the Chicago meets while I had this one. Would have loved to know what you thought!
> 
> 1. Good question. Triggering the circuit only happened to me twice while I had the amp. It happens to me pretty frequently on the CTH, IME. It happens when you are actually _*plugging in*_ a headphone that is trying to draw a lot of current immediately *with the volume up*. I was comparing the subbass on a couple amps with the Denon D2000 - while it's an easy headphone to drive, generally speaking, it can draw a lot of current for subbbass, especially with the volume way up. These were not normally listening conditions. This is me being an idiot seeing how far I can push the power supply. If I turned down the volume pot, there wouldn't have been a problem. I left it up to volume match. I actually plugged in some higher current draw headphones like HE500 just fine w/o triggering the circuit. It really only kicks on if you're acting like a moron like me.
> 
> ...



Too bad indeed. Thanks for the quick clarifications there. Hope to see you again at a Chicago event before too long!


----------



## Hansotek

Here are the new reviews for both the Liquid Spark and Liquid Platinum in one place, by the way.

Platinum:
http://enjoythemusic.com/magazine/e...iquid_Platinum_Headphone_Amplifier_Review.htm

Spark:
http://enjoythemusic.com/magazine/e...h_Liquid_Spark_Headphone_Amplifier_Review.htm

I've said it before and I'll say it again, don't sleep on the Spark. It's super good! Link for that thread here: 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monoprice-monolith-liquid-spark-by-alex-cavalli.876407/


----------



## Slim1970

Hansotek said:


> It's not an absolute necessity. But I would sink my money in there before spending it on some NOS tubes, if you're itching for an incremental upgrade. It's a very good value at $699, I just can't help but feel there is some scalability left.


Got it! That's does seem like a small price to pay to improve upon the sound. Especially considering the starting price of the LP.


----------



## LCMusicLover

I wonder if the tariffs will move the price (10%) -- is it produced in China?


----------



## Zachik

Hansotek said:


> Here are the new reviews for both the Liquid Spark and Liquid Platinum in one place, by the way.
> 
> Platinum:
> http://enjoythemusic.com/magazine/e...iquid_Platinum_Headphone_Amplifier_Review.htm
> ...


Dave - I just love your writing style. Great reviews! 
Fingers crossed that Monoprice are done with the delays...


----------



## heliosphann

Man, I can't wait to get my hands on this (and the Spark).

I used to own a Liquid Crimson, and still own a Carbon (v1) and LAu so I can make some good comparisons.


----------



## Hansotek

Zachik said:


> Dave - I just love your writing style. Great reviews!
> Fingers crossed that Monoprice are done with the delays...



Thanks man!! The Spark review is definitely one of my favorites. I appreciate the compliment!


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

Went LPS hunting again. Thinking of this one (they can custom make):

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...l?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.14.1b85665acRv7cI

Really wishing that Monoprice can come up with a very good LPS with the same design for the LP.


----------



## snip3r77

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> Went LPS hunting again. Thinking of this one (they can custom make):
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...l?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.14.1b85665acRv7cI
> 
> Really wishing that Monoprice can come up with a very good LPS with the same design for the LP.



you're already preparing for an amp that is yet to be on official sale? hehe~~


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y (Sep 28, 2018)

And look whose talking... I'll bet you're itching too! 

Well it doesn't hurt to fantasize/dream a little. 

Especially when Thanksgiving or Christmas or any occasion that is which you could have for a valid excuse.


----------



## snip3r77

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> And look whose talking... I'll bet you're itching too!
> 
> Well it doesn't hurt to fantasize/dream a little.
> 
> Especially when Thanksgiving or Christmas or any occasion that is which you could have for a valid excuse.



Haha I just bought some earbud to cure of itch ( short term )


----------



## alphanumerix1

Looking forward to this. Even if i have to take a hit with shipping this to Australia.

Group buy LPS anyone?


----------



## sahmen

One issue with  Power Supply options is that there are so many of them out there with such variable effectiveness that it is probably best to invest in one only when the company's reputation is well known and solid, and also when one is confident that their unit will bring out the best in the product one is going to power with it.  This is what I find most challenging about this search, especially since the product itself (The LP) has not been released and tested with any existing power supplies as yet...  With that said, does anyone know about BK Precision power supplies and their modes and context of application...  I have been looking particularly at this one, which is listed as  *BK 1623A Digital Display Power Supply 0 to 60V, 0 to 1.5A*
:

https://www.tequipment.net/BK1623A.html?search=true







Any helpful thoughts about it, pro or con, would be welcome


----------



## kevin gilmore

you have to be really careful with supplies of this type. One accidental bump of the voltage knob might end up burning up your amplifier.
Setting the voltage, turning it off, then back on might also cause issues. There are true computer controlled versions of these supplies
but they are a lot more money.

something like this
https://www.tequipment.net/Rigol/DP811/DC-Power-Supplies-Lab-Power-Supplies/?v=7421


----------



## Hansotek

sahmen said:


> One issue with  Power Supply options is that there are so many of them out there with such variable effectiveness that it is probably best to invest in one only when the company's reputation is well known and solid, and also when one is confident that their unit will bring out the best in the product one is going to power with it.  This is what I find most challenging about this search, especially since the product itself (The LP) has not been released and tested with any existing power supplies as yet...  With that said, does anyone know about BK Precision power supplies and their modes and context of application...  I have been looking particularly at this one, which is listed as  *BK 1623A Digital Display Power Supply 0 to 60V, 0 to 1.5A*
> :
> 
> https://www.tequipment.net/BK1623A.html?search=true
> ...



I’ve read good things about that one. It would be nice if Monoprice offered up an option w/ a matching chassis, but who knows if they will.


----------



## Zachik

I wish these guys would have modules that go beyond 15V :
https://wyred4sound.com/products/upgrades-mods-accessories/ps-1-modular-linear-power-supply

Such elegant solution, and 1 modular source to supply power to several amps...


----------



## Luckbad

sahmen said:


> One issue with  Power Supply options is that there are so many of them out there with such variable effectiveness that it is probably best to invest in one only when the company's reputation is well known and solid, and also when one is confident that their unit will bring out the best in the product one is going to power with it.  This is what I find most challenging about this search, especially since the product itself (The LP) has not been released and tested with any existing power supplies as yet...  With that said, does anyone know about BK Precision power supplies and their modes and context of application...  I have been looking particularly at this one, which is listed as  *BK 1623A Digital Display Power Supply 0 to 60V, 0 to 1.5A*
> 
> https://www.tequipment.net/BK1623A.html?search=true
> 
> Any helpful thoughts about it, pro or con, would be welcome


@atomicbob measured that a while back and it's supposed to be a really solid pick.

I have a Liquid Spark in for review. If I can get a Liquid Platinum at some point as well, I have a couple of linear power supplies that will work well with it and can compare with and without.


----------



## sahmen (Sep 28, 2018)

Luckbad said:


> @atomicbob measured that a while back and it's supposed to be a really solid pick.
> 
> I have a Liquid Spark in for review. If I can get a Liquid Platinum at some point as well, I have a couple of linear power supplies that will work well with it and can compare with and without.



This is such an excellent idea... I would really like to see that review.  I hope you get a Liquid Platinum in very soon for this project..


----------



## sahmen

Hansotek said:


> Thanks man!! The Spark review is definitely one of my favorites. I appreciate the compliment!



I confess that your review really made me want to consider getting the spark too, although I do not immediately know whether I am going to need it, or where I am going to use it, since I already have the Liquid Carbon v1, and also have the Liquid Platinum on my to-buy list...


----------



## sahmen

Zachik said:


> I wish these guys would have modules that go beyond 15V :
> https://wyred4sound.com/products/upgrades-mods-accessories/ps-1-modular-linear-power-supply
> 
> Such elegant solution, and 1 modular source to supply power to several amps...



Agreed!  And upon reading your suggestion I took the liberty of inquiring about this possibility with the folks at Wyred 4 Sound, and to my surprise, they seem willing to consider it.  Here is the response I have just received from them :

*******************
Hello ...., 

Thank you for your email and interest in our products. 

We can surely make this happen but to develop it will be very involved. How many of these do you think your group would be interested in?

Thank you and talk to you soon, 
EJ Sarmento 

********************

The difficult part is that I proposed the possibility of a group-buy, and they're asking me to provide them with an estimate of how many might enthusiasts might be interested, and I have no clue what to say yet...  For now, I'm just thinking of opening up a thread to poll responses, as an experiment. However, I am willing to consider suggestions as to how I/we might best approach this project to make it a success.  In the meantime, I am posting the full text of my correspondence with them below for the sake of transparency (with my own name and e-mail address redacted for security reasons, of course)


----------



## sahmen

I have just created a new thread to discuss this Wyred 4 Sound PS-1 Modular Power supply option and take a poll to assess interest... Please express your views about this option there:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cav...h-liquid-platinum-power-supply-option.889962/


----------



## Pharmaboy

Hansotek said:


> Here are the new reviews for both the Liquid Spark and Liquid Platinum in one place, by the way.
> 
> Platinum:
> http://enjoythemusic.com/magazine/e...iquid_Platinum_Headphone_Amplifier_Review.htm
> ...



Just read your review of the Liquid Platinum. I'm so impressed w/the writing & observations: the hardest qualities to describe in audio are intimacy, emotional truth, musicality. You heard those things, then spent much of the review spelling them out for readers. IMO that's really above & beyond...

It almost goes w/o saying that I'm now insanely interested in this amp (love my LC v2; Cavalli circuits are for real).


----------



## Hansotek

Pharmaboy said:


> Just read your review of the Liquid Platinum. I'm so impressed w/the writing & observations: the hardest qualities to describe in audio are intimacy, emotional truth, musicality. You heard those things, then spent much of the review spelling them out for readers. IMO that's really above & beyond...
> 
> It almost goes w/o saying that I'm now insanely interested in this amp (love my LC v2; Cavalli circuits are for real).



Thanks so much man! That’s what I was hoping to convey!


----------



## jinxy245

Hansotek said:


> Thanks so much man! That’s what I was hoping to convey!


You succeeded admirably. Keep 'em coming, my wallet be damned!


----------



## LCMusicLover

LP LPS question (couldn’t resist).

Any idea whether this:

https://www.circuitspecialists.com/programmable-bench-power-supply-csi3645a.html

might be a good option?

Honestly, I know next to nothing about such devices, so any info would help me. Anybody have a thread or site which might be helpful? Thanks.


----------



## dBel84

Might I suggest we listen to the stock ps before making decisions to spend more on a power supply that may make very little difference . The review was with the smps and is glowing which is how this amp was designed. I know Alex spent many hours reviewing and measuring various smps modules to find a product that matched the quality of the amp. (and continues to review potential options for future products) 

I know the idea of an LPS has a somehow magical appeal but well designed smps supplies have noise levels that are well below human perception (and similar to LPS)

Just something to consider before we convince ourselves that a platinum without an LPS is not worthy (a very inaccurate assumption)

.. dB


----------



## Roscoeiii

dBel84 said:


> Might I suggest we listen to the stock ps before making decisions to spend more on a power supply that may make very little difference . The review was with the smps and is glowing which is how this amp was designed. I know Alex spent many hours reviewing and measuring various smps modules to find a product that matched the quality of the amp. (and continues to review potential options for future products)
> 
> I know the idea of an LPS has a somehow magical appeal but well designed smps supplies have noise levels that are well below human perception (and similar to LPS)
> 
> ...



There is a lot to enjoy with the stock power supply for sure. And nice to space out the financial outlay...


----------



## sahmen (Sep 30, 2018)

dBel84 said:


> Might I suggest we listen to the stock ps before making decisions to spend more on a power supply that may make very little difference . The review was with the smps and is glowing which is how this amp was designed. I know Alex spent many hours reviewing and measuring various smps modules to find a product that matched the quality of the amp. (and continues to review potential options for future products)
> 
> I know the idea of an LPS has a somehow magical appeal but well designed smps supplies have noise levels that are well below human perception (and similar to LPS)
> 
> ...



I tend to agree with the implication in your post, that the difference an optional LPS will make ought to be assessed and confirmed before people decide to invest in one.  To that extent, I am praying that @Luckbad will have the opportunity he is seeking to test a Liquid Platinum with the power supplies that he currently has, in order to arrive at a firm determination.  For the same reasons, I am also wishing the @Hansotek can get his hands on a good LPS to try on the Liquid Platinum he has, preferably, before the final version is released, if possible, whatever the actual release date might turn out to be.

However, to avert any possible confusion, I need to mention that what I gather from @Hansotek's glowing review is not that the stock SMPS is not worthy, but that it could be better. I get the sense from his review that the LP is already well-made, capable, and fairly exquisite in its performance, except that it does not quite match the peaks of performance of the Liquid Crimson upon which it is modeled.  The idea of experimenting with alternative power supply options is to find out how much of that gap in performance can be closed.  For me that effort is worth it, although I realize and respect the fact that others might consider the LP, its stock SMPS and their performance adequate as they currently are.


----------



## Hansotek

sahmen said:


> I tend to agree with the implication in your post, that the difference an optional LPS will make ought to be assessed and confirmed before people decide to invest in one.  To that extent, I am praying that @Luckbad will have the opportunity he is seeking to test a Liquid Platinum with the power supplies that he currently has, in order to arrive at a firm determination.  For the same reasons, I am also wishing the @Hansotek can get his hands on a good LPS to try on the Liquid Platinum he has.
> 
> However, to avert any possible confusion, I need to mention that what I gather from @Hansotek's glowing review is not that the stock SMPS is not worthy, but that it could be better. I get the sense from his review that the LP is already well-made, capable, and fairly exquisite in its performance, except that it does not quite match the peaks of performance of the Liquid Crimson upon which it is modeled.  The idea of experimenting with alternative power supply options is to find out how much of that gap in performance can be closed.  For me that effort is worth it, although I realize and respect the fact that others might consider the LP, its stock SMPS and their performance adequate as they currently are.



I had to send the amp off to Alex, so no experiments just yet. 

The amp is definitely very enjoyable with the stock SMPS. Hopefully, the discussion  around how close it can scale relative to the Crimson doesn’t distract too much from the fact that the amp sounds really good on it’s own. People really ought to try it first.


----------



## alphanumerix1

Very true, Look forward to its release.


----------



## Rattle

Damn can't wait for this. Should be a substantial upgrade from Valhalla 2 which I love with HD600 and HD6xx. It's great the platinum can power almost any can and sound great.


----------



## Roscoeiii

Rattle said:


> Should be a substantial upgrade from Valhalla 2 which I love with HD600 and HD6xx. It's great the platinum can power almost any can and sound great.



As excited as I am for this too, don't presume that this will necessarily be a substantial upgrade from the Valhalla and the 650/600, or any other combo you have enjoyed currently or in the past. Sometimes certain combos have a special synergy (I haven't heard the Valhalla so can't comment on potential synergy there). And there is also the role of personal sound signature preferences and the specific type of music you listen to and how that intersects with the specifics of an amp/headphone pairing.


----------



## Rattle (Oct 2, 2018)

Roscoeiii said:


> As excited as I am for this too, don't presume that this will necessarily be a substantial upgrade from the Valhalla and the 650/600, or any other combo you have enjoyed currently or in the past. Sometimes certain combos have a special synergy (I haven't heard the Valhalla so can't comment on potential synergy there). And there is also the role of personal sound signature preferences and the specific type of music you listen to and how that intersects with the specifics of an amp/headphone pairing.



Good advice. My reasoning is that everyone talks up the mids on these amps. The thing I love about Valhalla 2 and mimby with HD600 in particular is the way the mids sound. Can't get enough of it. Plus this is me moving up the amp chain, I had a LD MKIII and now Valhalla 2. The Valhalla 2 not going anywhere though, as you said there is great synergy with mimby and HD600.


----------



## Odin412

Roscoeiii said:


> As excited as I am for this too, don't presume that this will necessarily be a substantial upgrade from the Valhalla and the 650/600, or any other combo you have enjoyed currently or in the past. Sometimes certain combos have a special synergy (I haven't heard the Valhalla so can't comment on potential synergy there). And there is also the role of personal sound signature preferences and the specific type of music you listen to and how that intersects with the specifics of an amp/headphone pairing.



The Valhalla and HD 650 exhibit fabulous synergy IMHO. That doesn't mean I'm not excited about the Liquid Platinum, though - there are always new synergies to be found!


----------



## wasupdog

can we throw an acopian LPS on this that is the same as the one we used for the MCH?  Or are the specs different?


----------



## Hansotek (Oct 5, 2018)

wasupdog said:


> can we throw an acopian LPS on this that is the same as the one we used for the MCH?  Or are the specs different?



No. Platinum uses a 1.5A 36V supply.


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

? Thought it was 36V.


----------



## LCMusicLover

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> ? Thought it was 36V.


Picture of the back on the Monoprice site does say 36V


----------



## Tsyer

Has Monoprice changed their minds to include a 240v model instead of just 110v. They shouldnt leave out half the world from this great product.


----------



## runeight

Tsyer said:


> Has Monoprice changed their minds to include a 240v model instead of just 110v. They shouldnt leave out half the world from this great product.



The power supply is universal, but it has a US plug. It should work anywhere with an adapter.


----------



## Tsyer

Great news thanks


----------



## Hansotek

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> ? Thought it was 36V.



Typo, sorry about that!


----------



## KaiserTK

It sounded pretty darn good with the Ether 2! Loud environment was unideal, but I’m impressed at how textured the low end was. I look forward to its release.


----------



## greenkiwi

man... that ether 2 looks gorgeous


----------



## MrPretty

So it looks like the date changed again, this time from 11/02/18 to 10/29/18.  I think that might be the first time it moved up, fingers crossed for monday.


----------



## sahmen

MrPretty said:


> So it looks like the date changed again, this time from 11/02/18 to 10/29/18.  I think that might be the first time it moved up, fingers crossed for monday.



Certainly interesting, indeed.


----------



## Panimation

Excitement looms!


----------



## greenkiwi

I'm wondering if I try to get into this first batch... very exciting.  I hope they're ready for all th orders.


----------



## snip3r77

MrPretty said:


> So it looks like the date changed again, this time from 11/02/18 to 10/29/18.  I think that might be the first time it moved up, fingers crossed for monday.


Christmas came early?


----------



## sahmen

Is there any chance that the prices of these, the spark, and other china made audio gear might eventually go up because of "Tariff wars"? It is one thing I have been asking myself often lately, because of all the gear that usually comes to the US from China...

Sorry for bring the "T" word into the discussion, but I would like to know the answer to this question, so that I can strategize the timing of some purchases I need to make, if necessary..


----------



## alphanumerix1

2 more days


----------



## Daemon Ursus

alphanumerix1 said:


> 2 more days



2 More days until it gets pushed back again. /s


----------



## snip3r77

I’d await some official reviews first


----------



## rockytopwiz

Can't really afford this right now, but I have a feeling if I wait it may be another 6 months before it comes up again.  I played this game with monoprice before. I ordered a subwoofer, really liked it and wanted a second,  had to wait six months for more to be built to get another.

I'm still not convinced our hobby has enough heads willing to drop this much coin to sell it out immediately, guess we shall see soon.


----------



## snip3r77

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...easurements-of-massdrop-thx-aaa-789-amp.5001/

Just wanted to bring the attention for those would be buyers . Glowing reviews for this amp.


----------



## heliosphann

Ugh.


----------



## Phantaminum

snip3r77 said:


> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...easurements-of-massdrop-thx-aaa-789-amp.5001/
> 
> Just wanted to bring the attention for those would be buyers . Glowing reviews for this amp.



I think you posted this in the wrong thread?


----------



## LCMusicLover

MrPretty said:


> So it looks like the date changed again, this time from 11/02/18 to 10/29/18.  I think that might be the first time it moved up, fingers crossed for monday.


So did they move the date up just so they could miss it?


----------



## sahmen

LCMusicLover said:


> So did they move the date up just so they could miss it?



I have been asking myself the same question, and wondering whom the joke is supposed to be on (that is, if moving the date forward was someone's idea of a joke). 

An April 1st joke on October 29th?  Not kosher at all, Monoprice, not Kosher! SMH


----------



## MrPretty

LCMusicLover said:


> So did they move the date up just so they could miss it?



Looking at the date for the THXAAA amp, it was moved from 11/02/18 to 11/05/18 (next Monday).  So now I'm thinking someone just entered the wrong date (a week early) for the amp.


----------



## Keisuk3

I'm really hoping that this amp lives up to the long wait. Really interestead in trying it in comparison to my sangaku.


----------



## KG Jag

^^ Hard to say.  Today's coupon listed the LP as a product that was not eligible for the discount.


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

Seen this today... Now I am feeling depressed....


----------



## sahmen

This is where dealing with a large  and faceless corporate outfit begins to appear inconvenient (whatever its other advantages might be)... Won't it be nice to have a Monoprice Rep on this forum explaining the problem with the release date? Given this rather "conspicuous" radio silence,  I can't help wondering what fraction of Monoprice's personnel and staff are actually aware of the existence of the Liquid Platinum, talk less of the release deadline they're missing.

This is also one of those days on which I wish @runeight (Dr. Cavalli) would make one of his gracious appearances, and hopefully, help us to understand what is happening (i.e. assuming he is aware of Monoprice's release/shipping schedule for the Liquid Platinum)


----------



## greenkiwi

MrPretty said:


> Looking at the date for the THXAAA amp, it was moved from 11/02/18 to 11/05/18 (next Monday).  So now I'm thinking someone just entered the wrong date (a week early) for the amp.



I'm guessing this was the case... but I'll keep hitting refresh, just in case.


----------



## KG Jag

Estimated delivery date is now 11/25/18!


----------



## alphanumerix1 (Oct 29, 2018)

Out of Stock ETA: 11/25/2018


----------



## hifi808

KG Jag said:


> Estimated delivery date is now 11/25/18!



Yeah, just saw the latest setback. I guess it's time to finally scratch this purchase off my list as it will now be competing for my money with every other Black Friday deal that comes along. 

I think I have a LCD2C or AFO in my near future instead...


----------



## runeight

sahmen said:


> This is where dealing with a large  and faceless corporate outfit begins to appear inconvenient (whatever its other advantages might be)... Won't it be nice to have a Monoprice Rep on this forum explaining the problem with the release date? Given this rather "conspicuous" radio silence,  I can't help wondering what fraction of Monoprice's personnel and staff are actually aware of the existence of the Liquid Platinum, talk less of the release deadline they're missing.
> 
> This is also one of those days on which I wish @runeight (Dr. Cavalli) would make one of his gracious appearances, and hopefully, help us to understand what is happening (i.e. assuming he is aware of Monoprice's release/shipping schedule for the Liquid Platinum)



Hmmmm. Based on what I know a late November date doesn't fit. My guess is that this is a typo, but I don't know for absolute certain. I think much sooner than that. I guess we'll all find out soon enough. 

I do know that MP is quite well aware of the Platinum and are resourcing it, along with the Spark.


----------



## Phantaminum

runeight said:


> Hmmmm. Based on what I know a late November date doesn't fit. My guess is that this is a typo, but I don't know for absolute certain. I think much sooner than that. I guess we'll all find out soon enough.
> 
> I do know that MP is quite well aware of the Platinum and are resourcing it, along with the Spark.



So what you’re saying is - Great things come to those who wait?


----------



## runeight

Phantaminum said:


> So what you’re saying is - Great things come to those who wait?



I sure has hell hope so. This amp has been a long time in coming since I showed the first proto at CanJam. I want one too.


----------



## rockytopwiz (Oct 29, 2018)

This is some sick game they are playing.


----------



## sahmen

runeight said:


> Hmmmm. Based on what I know a late November date doesn't fit. My guess is that this is a typo, but I don't know for absolute certain. I think much sooner than that. I guess we'll all find out soon enough.
> 
> I do know that MP is quite well aware of the Platinum and are resourcing it, along with the Spark.



Thanks @runeight :  I also hope the late November date is a typo, and that they'll move the release forward as they did for the Spark. To be honest, I am less anxious about the date itself, than I am about the possibility of their opting to exercise their right to change the price of the unit without notice (as they say somewhere about the Spark), as they keep delaying the rollout, and  before making the Platinum available for purchase.

I cannot completely get rid of this rather paranoid suspicion, because of the current controversy about tariffs and the anxiety it is generating.

I should probably stop mentioning the "T" word before someone accuses me of giving them ideas, assuming they do not have it already...

Fingers crossed


----------



## runeight

rockytopwiz said:


> This is some sick game they are playing.



Yeah, it may seem like that but I don't think that is their intention. At least such an intention doesn't really make sense.


----------



## runeight

sahmen said:


> Thanks @runeight :  I also hope the late November date is a typo, and that they'll move the release forward as they did for the Spark. To be honest, I am less anxious about the date itself, than I am about the possibility of their opting to exercise their right to change the price of the unit without notice (as they say somewhere about the Spark), as they keep delaying the rollout, and  before making the Platinum available for purchase.
> 
> I cannot completely get rid of this rather paranoid suspicion, because of the current controversy about tariffs and the anxiety it is generating.
> 
> ...



MHO is that tariffs will become a problem for nearly anyone who deals with China. I know that they have not affected the Spark or Platinum, but future stuff is unknown at this point. Certainly electronics in general is already being affected and anyone manuf stuff in China has got to pay attention now to the product codes under tariff. My guess is that manuf will adjust reasonably well.

I'm going to ask MP what is actually happening.


----------



## rockytopwiz (Oct 29, 2018)

runeight said:


> Yeah, it may seem like that but I don't think that is their intention. At least such an intention doesn't really make sense.


Just trying to add some comic relief.  Seems the release date has been on a rollercoaster ride.  I thought for sure when it got moved up it was a done deal and going to be up for sale.  Your right , no one's fault, probably an unseen delay.  I'm used to these sorts of things being a gamer, where delays are commonplace.   Appreciate your input everywhere kind sir.


----------



## elwappo99 (Oct 29, 2018)

runeight said:


> I sure has hell hope so. This amp has been a long time in coming since I showed the first proto at CanJam. I want one too.



I've been looking forward to this amp since that show (was that all the way back in April?!?). The proto was quite excellent and could easily drive just about anything, and sounded excellent with my lightly modded HD800.

Just about anything because.....  I only had a DAP to hook it up to, so it was hard to tell if it can really get the HE-6 loud enough (I know I know Alex, I've only got a 6-screw HE-6 ). But even with a DAP for most modern music it was definitely pushing enough power. And that Cavalli sound with the HE-6 is something else. Looking forward to a nice December with one


----------



## runeight (Oct 29, 2018)

elwappo99 said:


> I've been looking forward to this amp since that show (was that all the way back in April?!?). The proto was quite excellent and could easily drive just about anything, and sounded excellent with my lightly modded HD800.
> 
> Just about anything because.....  I only had a DAP to hook it up to, so it was hard to tell if it can really get the HE-6 loud enough (I know I know Alex, I've only got a 6-screw HE-6 ). But even with a DAP for most modern music it was definitely pushing enough power. And that Cavalli sound with the HE-6 is something else. Looking forward to a nice December with one



Yes indeed. April. The first proto was the previous April at SoCal. So almost a year and a half.


----------



## runeight

Ok folks. Here is the official info from MP. Was able to make contact this evening.

First, sorry about the mess up. It was supposed to be posted as 11/1/18 NOT 11/25/18. They will adjust the website in the morning.

The Platinums have landed at warehouse and will need a few days processing. And, of course, they are in process of finishing out web page.

They said 11/1 in the AM for release.


----------



## wasupdog

Nice!  I'm ready to order.  I listened to the proto at canjam a while back even though it was hard to tell exactly what it sounds like in a show setting.


----------



## alphanumerix1

runeight said:


> Ok folks. Here is the official info from MP. Was able to make contact this evening.
> 
> First, sorry about the mess up. It was supposed to be posted as 11/1/18 NOT 11/25/18. They will adjust the website in the morning.
> 
> ...



Rock n Roll


----------



## sahmen

runeight said:


> Ok folks. Here is the official info from MP. Was able to make contact this evening.
> 
> First, sorry about the mess up. It was supposed to be posted as 11/1/18 NOT 11/25/18. They will adjust the website in the morning.
> 
> ...



Great news!  Thanks.


----------



## snip3r77

alphanumerix1 said:


> Rock n Roll



whose credit card is ready?


----------



## GenEricOne

runeight said:


> Ok folks. Here is the official info from MP. Was able to make contact this evening.
> 
> First, sorry about the mess up. It was supposed to be posted as 11/1/18 NOT 11/25/18. They will adjust the website in the morning.
> 
> ...


Site now says 11/1!


----------



## BearlyPizza

I was refreshing my browser for the most part of yesterday.  I was so hyped for it to release! I'm glad it'll be releasing thursday! I am reaaaady!


----------



## TonySunshine

Does anyone know if this amp will take other kinds of tubes? Like 6sn7's with an adaptor?


----------



## Phantaminum

TonySunshine said:


> Does anyone know if this amp will take other kinds of tubes? Like 6sn7's with an adaptor?



It won’t take a 6SN7 (too much draw) but there are comparable tubes that it may take like the Russian 6n23p.


----------



## runeight

TonySunshine said:


> Does anyone know if this amp will take other kinds of tubes? Like 6sn7's with an adaptor?



Although a few owners have rolled tubes in the CTH (some have even rolled octals), as always, I don't recommend anything other than 6922 and equivalents. Keep in mind that the amp auto biases to a nominal 6922 and can handle some variation around this op point. Tubes whose op point is distant from 6922 may fail to bias the amp correctly. Then you will have problems. Just FYI for you. 

OTOH, being just like you guys, I know that you're going to try it anyway.


----------



## jinxy245

runeight said:


> I know that you're going to try it anyway


You so get us.


----------



## runeight

jinxy245 said:


> You so get us.



Alas, I do. I'm just a lot older than most of you, but give me a cool way to break my amp and I'll do it in a New York minute. Just to see what happens. Because, maybe, it will actually sound better.


----------



## Phantaminum

runeight said:


> Alas, I do. I'm just a lot older than most of you, but give me a cool way to break my amp and I'll do it in a New York minute. Just to see what happens. Because, maybe, it will actually sound better.



Two 6c8gs Ken-Rads or Sylvania? 

I kid I kid!

**Looks over to the two adapters and Ken Rads**


----------



## runeight

Phantaminum said:


> Two 6c8gs Ken-Rads or Sylvania?
> 
> I kid I kid!
> 
> **Looks over to the two adapters and Ken Rads**



Ha. What's with those Kenrads? I used to smash open tubes like that just to see how they were constructed. Probably breathed really bad heavy metals in the process.

But, when someone does try this, please let us know.


----------



## sahmen

Someone highly recommends the Telefunken 6922/E88CC tubes for these, but there seems to be a large variety of those Telefunken 6922/E88CC selling at very divergent prices  on different sites of the internet, and not having used any tubes before, I am having some difficulty distinguishing genuine reliable ones from possibly sketchy ones, although something tells me that they might not all be equally good and reliable, given their prices:

Can someone confirm that these Telefunkens can and do bring the promised enhancements to the table, and also recommend some reliable online sites from which to order rthem?


----------



## Phantaminum (Oct 30, 2018)

sahmen said:


> Someone highly recommends the Telefunken 6922/E88CC tubes for these, but there seems to be a large variety of those Telefunken 6922/E88CC selling at very divergent prices  on different sites of the internet, and not having used any tubes before, I am having some difficulty distinguishing genuine reliable ones from possibly sketchy ones, although something tells me that they might not all be equally good and reliable, given their prices:
> 
> Can someone confirm that these Telefunkens can and do bring the promised enhancements to the table, and also recommend some reliable online sites from which to order rthem?



Unfortunately, tubes are highly subjective. What someone may feel these tubes bring to the table (airy, light on its feet, but not as much body/impact) to you may be too lean, have too much treble extension, and sound too linear. You also have to take into account how it will react with the amp and headphones being used.

As a suggestion I’d say go for the new stock tubes (cheap) and dial in the sound you like with the amp. JJs, Gold Lions, and even NOS Tungsram PCC88s. From there you can describe what sound you prefer and ask for suggestions on higher end tubes that fall in line with it. Or go crazy like a few of us in the Lyr thread and spend over $1000 on tubes. 

Edit: To answer your question I feel the Telefunkens are fine tubes.


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y (Oct 30, 2018)

I have a pair of of Reflektor '75 and '74 6n23p SGWP just for them...


----------



## DRHamp (Oct 30, 2018)

I was wondering how long it would take for the tube rolling discussion to start - btw, I am really into it with my Ember II and anxiously looking forward to the Liquid Platinum.


----------



## Holypal

Ordering 36v LPS now.


----------



## Hansotek

Phantaminum said:


> Unfortunately, tubes are highly subjective. What someone may feel these tubes bring to the table (airy, light on its feet, but not as much body/impact) to you may be too lean, have too much treble extension, and sound too linear. You also have to take into account how it will react with the amp and headphones being used.
> 
> As a suggestion I’d say go for the new stock tubes (cheap) and dial in the sound you like with the amp. JJs, Gold Lions, and even NOS Tungsram PCC88s. From there you can describe what sound you prefer and ask for suggestions on higher end tubes that fall in line with it. Or go crazy like a few of us in the Lyr thread and spend over $1000 on tubes.
> 
> Edit: To answer your question I feel the Telefunkens are fine tubes.



Good advice and good description of the Telefunkens’ sound. I used to own a pair of them myself.


----------



## Hansotek

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> I have a pair of of Reflektor '75 and '74 6n23p SGWP just for them...



That’s what I used to use in the Liquid Crimson. Outstanding match.


----------



## TonySunshine

Are the specs for the tube heater and transformer in the liquid platinum published somewhere? I'm wondering if it can handle a 6n6p

https://www.thetubestore.com/lib/thetubestore/RU-6N6P.pdf


----------



## runeight

TonySunshine said:


> Are the specs for the tube heater and transformer in the liquid platinum published somewhere? I'm wondering if it can handle a 6n6p
> 
> https://www.thetubestore.com/lib/thetubestore/RU-6N6P.pdf



6.3V at 330mA MAX. You'll need two tubes.

Both heaters and HV are powered by small SMPSs. The plate voltage on and the current in the tubes is controlled regardless of tube type until the auto bias cannot account for the operating point of the tube. Which then means it doesn't behave like a 6922 or close to a 6922.

Pls keep in mind my comments above about how closely the tubes should match a typical 6922.

IIRC, 6N6P is not that close a match to 6922. But I know that many people sub them.


----------



## Hansotek

TonySunshine said:


> Are the specs for the tube heater and transformer in the liquid platinum published somewhere? I'm wondering if it can handle a 6n6p
> 
> https://www.thetubestore.com/lib/thetubestore/RU-6N6P.pdf



I would love to know that spec range for the tubes as well.


----------



## Hansotek

runeight said:


> 6.3V at 330mA MAX. You'll need two tubes.
> 
> Both heaters and HV are powered by small SMPSs. The plate voltage on and the current in the tubes is controlled regardless of tube type until the auto bias cannot account for the operating point of the tube. Which then means it doesn't behave like a 6922 or close to a 6922.
> 
> ...



6n6p is 0.75mA, so it will probably not result in anything good.


----------



## TonySunshine

ah darn ok. Thanks for the quick reply. So since the 6n6p requires 750mA at 6.3V, it will be underpowered in the liquid platinum



runeight said:


> 6.3V at 330mA MAX. You'll need two tubes.
> 
> Both heaters and HV are powered by small SMPSs. The plate voltage on and the current in the tubes is controlled regardless of tube type until the auto bias cannot account for the operating point of the tube. Which then means it doesn't behave like a 6922 or close to a 6922.
> 
> ...


----------



## runeight

Hansotek said:


> 6n6p is 0.75mA, so it will probably not result in anything good.



It won't be a happy match. The heater supply will limit the current and the voltage on the tubes will then be too low for normal operation.


----------



## sahmen

Holypal said:


> Ordering 36v LPS now.



Care to share which model you have in mind?


----------



## Holypal

sahmen said:


> Care to share which model you have in mind?



Basically it needs a 80VA transformer. And then you ask the seller to tune it to 36V.  For example:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ZERO-ZONE-...rmance-linear-power-supply-80VA-/253863290326


----------



## sahmen

Holypal said:


> Basically it needs a 80VA transformer. And then you ask the seller to tune it to 36V.  For example:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/ZERO-ZONE-...rmance-linear-power-supply-80VA-/253863290326


Thx.


----------



## BearlyPizza

Newbie question: So I looked at the output power specs that were posted on the site, and considering I have an Audioquest Nighthawk, is it right to assume that i'll most likely have trouble with channel imbalance and run the volume pot really low? Any help would be appreciated! 

Audioquest Nighthawk:
                                             Impedance: 25 ohms | Sensitivity: 99dBSPL / mW | Power Handling: 1.5W

Liquid Platinum Output Power (Balanced / Single Ended) 
                                              33Ω 6.62 watts 1.78 watts
                                              56Ω 4.21 watts 4.21 watts 
                                              Channel Balance 0.3dB


----------



## Panimation

I know it's been mentioned here but can someone confirm when they get their liquid plat that the included power supply is indeed universal (230v needed for Australia). Monoprice just listed the specs but that part is left out of the spec list.


----------



## sahmen (Oct 31, 2018)

I think these specs and measurements deserve a home in this thread, for more ready and direct on-hand consultation :


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

Let me help you...

Above there is a function says "search this thread". 

Type in the box "power supply universal" and click the magnifying glass icon or hit enter. 

Pretty much It will give you your answer. 



Panimation said:


> I know it's been mentioned here but can someone confirm when they get their liquid plat that the included power supply is indeed universal (230v needed for Australia). Monoprice just listed the specs but that part is left out of the spec list.


----------



## Panimation

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> Let me help you...
> 
> Above there is a function says "search this thread".
> 
> ...


Yes i saw that but information is conflicting and I much rather wait for someone to get one and confirm it before I put an order in.


----------



## runeight

Panimation said:


> Yes i saw that but information is conflicting and I much rather wait for someone to get one and confirm it before I put an order in.



It is a little mis-worded. The PS is globally universal but it has a US plug. All you will need is a plug adapter to work at 230V and other similar mains voltages.


----------



## Panimation

runeight said:


> It is a little mis-worded. The PS is globally universal but it has a US plug. All you will need is a plug adapter to work at 230V and other similar mains voltages.


Are you guys able to relay that with the Monoprice team? Feels like that mis-wording might hamper sales for people outside of the states.


----------



## koven

Happy to see it is finally being released, no more delays! I bet it will be a great value amp.


----------



## MrPretty

It's Live!


----------



## pbear

MrPretty said:


> It's Live!



Ordered!


----------



## Holypal

***. Still buying it.


----------



## BearlyPizza

Wooooot!! Ordered! =D


----------



## jsmiller58

Besides the enjoythemusic review, has anyone else gotten to play with a review unit?  Itching to order, but want to see a few reviews, as well as interpretations of the graphs posted earlier in this thread...


----------



## Dietmar Görtz

Hi,

I live in Germany. Is there a 230V version?

Dietmar


----------



## cardeli22

Dietmar Görtz said:


> Hi,
> 
> I live in Germany. Is there a 230V version?
> 
> Dietmar


A few posts before yours, you will see a response from the Designer (aka Runeight/Cavalli Audio) say it ships with a universal power supply and only requires you to put one of those travel adapters for it to work.


----------



## Dietmar Görtz

Thank you!

Dietmar


----------



## greenkiwi

Monoprice in California is awesome. 

Mine arrives tomorrow... for $9 shipping.  Crazy.


----------



## BearlyPizza

^ Likewise! I'm pretty excited to have the amp in my hands so quickly!


----------



## Zachik

But sales tax in CA is pretty significant. Just saying...


----------



## muckyfingers

Zachik said:


> But sales tax in CA is pretty significant. Just saying...



Since the shipping/arrival time is so quick, I think of it as being forced to pay for expedited shipping.


----------



## Rattle

I'm trying to hold off until more impressions. Is this a good pairing with HD600 and HD6xx ? I hope so...


----------



## Luckbad

I really don't have time to listen to this but it was looking really sad at me from its box and I had to hook it up. I successfully resisted the urge to hook it up immediately with a linear power supply so I'm running it 100% stock to lightly modified HD650s.

Within a few seconds of plugging in, I could already tell that the Liquid Platinum is going to a special amp.

Current setup is pretty simple. Emotiva CMX-6 power -> Schiit Wyrd -> MHDT Labs Orchid -> Monolith Cavalli Liquid Platinum -> Sennheiser HD650. I'm using ASIO and flac files with a phase reversal trick (PRT) setup going balanced into my headphones.

Crisp, clean, clear, outstanding soundstage depth, airy, effortless. I don't think this unit is burned in at all and the tubes are the stock EH 6922s (which I find to be pretty good tubes in the Liquid Crimson. Little reason to replace them).


----------



## jsmiller58 (Nov 1, 2018)

Luckbad said:


> I really don't have time to listen to this but it was looking really sad at me from its box and I had to hook it up. I successfully resisted the urge to hook it up immediately with a linear power supply so I'm running it 100% stock to lightly modified HD650s.
> 
> Within a few seconds of plugging in, I could already tell that the Liquid Platinum is going to a special amp.
> 
> ...


You're killing me!!  OK, killing my wallet!!!

Fine.  Whatever.  Will buy it.  But I will wait till I get back from vacation.  Maybe I will come to my senses.  Who am I kidding??

Wine, gear envy, late night shopping, credit card, wife on the other side of the country.  Bad combination.  

One of my favorite t-shirts says "In my defense, I WAS left unsupervised"


----------



## jsmiller58

Luckbad said:


> I really don't have time to listen to this but it was looking really sad at me from its box and I had to hook it up. I successfully resisted the urge to hook it up immediately with a linear power supply so I'm running it 100% stock to lightly modified HD650s.
> 
> Within a few seconds of plugging in, I could already tell that the Liquid Platinum is going to a special amp.
> 
> ...


What LPS are you using?  If I am going down the rabbit hole, I might as well go all the way down the rabbit hole...


----------



## alphanumerix1

155usd to ship to Australia is a just too unreasonable for me. I wish monoprice offered a lower cost shipping method for international customers.


----------



## snip3r77

For those that purchased, what's the ETA?


----------



## greenkiwi

Tomorrow for me.


----------



## sahmen

snip3r77 said:


> For those that purchased, what's the ETA?


Mine is Wednesday, 11/7, but I am on the East coast

My extra charges were :

 Shipping & Handling Cost : $23.71 
MA Sales Tax : $45.23 

Total: $68.94

I'm wondering why I am being made to pay MA Tax of $45.23 by Monoprice, when Audeze (also based in California) ship my stuff for free (Fedex ground), and Schiit Audio only charges shipping fees with no tax.  Does California impose different taxing policies on different companies, or is this just some shenanigans on the part of Monoprice?


----------



## wmak79

sahmen said:


> Mine is Wednesday, 11/7, but I am on the East coast
> 
> My extra charges were :
> 
> ...



Most likely, Monoprice has a sales nexus in your state. This is not CA law, but your state's sales tax laws. I would assume that the smaller companies (sales volume wize) such as Audeze and Schiit are don't have nexus in your state and therefore, don't collect sale taxes.


----------



## Marlowe

It's quite likely that Monoprice is now collecting applicable state sales tax on all sales--it is now charging me NJ sales tax which it did do not previously. (In general, I only paid NJ sales tax on internet sales from Massdrop, which has a NJ warehouse, and on items sold directly by Amazon, but not by third party sellers unless they were physically present in NJ.) A US Supreme Court decision earlier this year held that states may require internet retailers to collect sates tax even if they do not have have a physical presence in the state. While I am not aware how many states (if any) have already enacted the necessary legislation to implement this, you can expect all states with sales tax to do so in the reasonably near future, at which point all internet sellers will have to collect sales tax. Monoprice may be anticipating this.


----------



## runeight

Hey guys, I'd like to answer a Q that is occasionally lately asked about this amp and others that have been available through MD and now MP. I addressed this really early in the CTH conversation, but maybe a good time to repeat it.

The Cavalli amps coming through MP, including this one, are exclusively my designs. As you have read here, this particular amp was shown at CanJam SoCal two years ago. I do all the prototyping until the product is ready for production. The final boards are my design and all of the electronic components are specified by me. Mechanical components are approved by me. No subs are allowed without my approval. This means that the electronic comps are from dependable, commercial quality vendors like Vishay, Panasonic, Nichicon, KOA, Susumu, Bourns, OnSemi, Infineon, etc. Subs are always made from manufacturers like these. I have never believed it is necessary to use expensive boutique comps to make really good amps, but I do believe that you must use basic, excellent quality comps from reputable manufacturers.

Monolith/Monoprice is, of course, doing the distribution as a line of Cavalli products. I will be equally involved in anything beyond the Spark and Platinum if that were to ever occur. The designs that have hit the streets so far are things that I was working on when CA was closed and were fairly straightforward to make available through other channels.

I think that most everyone here has figured this out, but perhaps a few haven't and I thought maybe worth repeating.

Also, I have this idea to write a few posts on how it was possible to engineer a very big and expensive, singled ended Liquid Crimson into an affordable, fully balanced version of the same amp now known as Liquid Platinum. You guys please let me know if this would be of interest on this thread.


----------



## jsmiller58

runeight said:


> Hey guys, I'd like to answer a Q that is occasionally lately asked about this amp and others that have been available through MD and now MP. I addressed this really early in the CTH conversation, but maybe a good time to repeat it.
> 
> The Cavalli amps coming through MP, including this one, are exclusively my designs. As you have read here, this particular amp was shown at CanJam SoCal two years ago. I do all the prototyping until the product is ready for production. The final boards are my design and all of the electronic components are specified by me. Mechanical components are approved by me. No subs are allowed without my approval. This means that the electronic comps are from dependable, commercial quality vendors like Vishay, Panasonic, Nichicon, KOA, Susumu, Bourns, OnSemi, Infineon, etc. Subs are always made from manufacturers like these. I have never believed it is necessary to use expensive boutique comps to make really good amps, but I do believe that you must use basic, excellent quality comps from reputable manufacturers.
> 
> ...


I think that would be interesting and would generate a great deal of thoughtful exchange!!


----------



## Alcophone

runeight said:


> Also, I have this idea to write a few posts on how it was possible to engineer a very big and expensive, singled ended Liquid Crimson into an affordable, fully balanced version of the same amp now known as Liquid Platinum. You guys please let me know if this would be of interest on this thread.


It would be!


----------



## Obieworld

Hi guys, 

As I'm totally not able to test this (living in Africa), could somebody tell me if this is a good purchase regarding an FOCAL CLEAR headphone connected as balanced? 
Would be very helpful.
Thx a lot.


----------



## Phantaminum (Nov 2, 2018)

runeight said:


> Hey guys, I'd like to answer a Q that is occasionally lately asked about this amp and others that have been available through MD and now MP. I addressed this really early in the CTH conversation, but maybe a good time to repeat it.
> 
> The Cavalli amps coming through MP, including this one, are exclusively my designs. As you have read here, this particular amp was shown at CanJam SoCal two years ago. I do all the prototyping until the product is ready for production. The final boards are my design and all of the electronic components are specified by me. Mechanical components are approved by me. No subs are allowed without my approval. This means that the electronic comps are from dependable, commercial quality vendors like Vishay, Panasonic, Nichicon, KOA, Susumu, Bourns, OnSemi, Infineon, etc. Subs are always made from manufacturers like these. I have never believed it is necessary to use expensive boutique comps to make really good amps, but I do believe that you must use basic, excellent quality comps from reputable manufacturers.
> 
> ...



Please do contribute to this thread with how you came up with the idea to go from the Liquid Crimson to the Liquid Platinum. I’m a big geek for things like this and love to read Jason Stoddard’s posts as well on concept to live product.


----------



## spyder1

runeight said:


> Also, I have this idea to write a few posts on how it was possible to engineer a very big and expensive, singled ended Liquid Crimson into an affordable, fully balanced version of the same amp now known as Liquid Platinum. You guys please let me know if this would be of interest on this thread.



runeight, from a teaching/learning stand point, this would be GREAT!


----------



## sahmen

runeight said:


> I have this idea to write a few posts on how it was possible to engineer a very big and expensive, singled ended Liquid Crimson into an affordable, fully balanced version of the same amp now known as Liquid Platinum. You guys please let me know if this would be of interest on this thread.



@runeight : These posts would be of considerable interest to me personally, but I'm also guessing that many others would be interested as well.  I'm particularly interested in how the power supply section of the Crimson compares with that of the Platinum, and to what extent using an external LPS with the Platinum might (or might not) bring sound quality enhancements to the table.

Bottomline : I find this gesture (not to mention your continued involvement in discussions on this thread) to be very generous and thoughtful. Thanks.


----------



## sahmen

Obieworld said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> As I'm totally not able to test this (living in Africa), could somebody tell me if this is a good purchase regarding an FOCAL CLEAR headphone connected as balanced?
> Would be very helpful.
> Thx a lot.



Hey @Obieworld , I don't think you can go wrong with a Cavalli amp in general, but the Platinum appears to be a particularly nice piece of machinery.  I am betting it will make your Focal Clear sing like a Muse in Abidjan or anywhere else on the planet


----------



## Rattle

runeight said:


> Hey guys, I'd like to answer a Q that is occasionally lately asked about this amp and others that have been available through MD and now MP. I addressed this really early in the CTH conversation, but maybe a good time to repeat it.
> 
> The Cavalli amps coming through MP, including this one, are exclusively my designs. As you have read here, this particular amp was shown at CanJam SoCal two years ago. I do all the prototyping until the product is ready for production. The final boards are my design and all of the electronic components are specified by me. Mechanical components are approved by me. No subs are allowed without my approval. This means that the electronic comps are from dependable, commercial quality vendors like Vishay, Panasonic, Nichicon, KOA, Susumu, Bourns, OnSemi, Infineon, etc. Subs are always made from manufacturers like these. I have never believed it is necessary to use expensive boutique comps to make really good amps, but I do believe that you must use basic, excellent quality comps from reputable manufacturers.
> 
> ...



Please do !


----------



## Hansotek

Obieworld said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> As I'm totally not able to test this (living in Africa), could somebody tell me if this is a good purchase regarding an FOCAL CLEAR headphone connected as balanced?
> Would be very helpful.
> Thx a lot.



I would think these two would be great together, as the Utopia and Crimson were one of the BEST synergistic combos I’ve ever heard.

Utopia is a little more forward in the upper mid with less bass than Clear. Platinum stock is a little more forward in the upper mid with a little less bass than Crimson (with the tube roll I was using)... so overall sound balance should be very, very similar.


----------



## Hansotek

runeight said:


> Hey guys, I'd like to answer a Q that is occasionally lately asked about this amp and others that have been available through MD and now MP. I addressed this really early in the CTH conversation, but maybe a good time to repeat it.
> 
> The Cavalli amps coming through MP, including this one, are exclusively my designs. As you have read here, this particular amp was shown at CanJam SoCal two years ago. I do all the prototyping until the product is ready for production. The final boards are my design and all of the electronic components are specified by me. Mechanical components are approved by me. No subs are allowed without my approval. This means that the electronic comps are from dependable, commercial quality vendors like Vishay, Panasonic, Nichicon, KOA, Susumu, Bourns, OnSemi, Infineon, etc. Subs are always made from manufacturers like these. I have never believed it is necessary to use expensive boutique comps to make really good amps, but I do believe that you must use basic, excellent quality comps from reputable manufacturers.
> 
> ...



Do eeeet!!


----------



## ZetsuBozu0012

runeight said:


> Also, I have this idea to write a few posts on how it was possible to engineer a very big and expensive, singled ended Liquid Crimson into an affordable, fully balanced version of the same amp now known as Liquid Platinum. You guys please let me know if this would be of interest on this thread.



I believe this would be greatly interesting to read. The LC is legendary in many respects, and to "see" how it was improved upon and made more affordable for people with shallower pockets would be a boon.


----------



## KG Jag

Monoprice and many Amazon third party sellers have been collecting sales taxes for many states (certainly in TX & NV) for many months now.


----------



## elwappo99

runeight said:


> Monolith/Monoprice is, of course, doing the distribution as a line of Cavalli products. I will be equally involved in anything beyond the Spark and Platinum if that were to ever occur. The designs that have hit the streets so far are things that I was working on when CA was closed and were fairly straightforward to make available through other channels.
> 
> I think that most everyone here has figured this out, but perhaps a few haven't and I thought maybe worth repeating.
> 
> Also, I have this idea to write a few posts on how it was possible to engineer a very big and expensive, singled ended Liquid Crimson into an affordable, fully balanced version of the same amp now known as Liquid Platinum. You guys please let me know if this would be of interest on this thread.



I think I speak for everyone when I say that would be *GOLD*en. *c*Au*gh* *c*Au*gh*


----------



## KG Jag

Yes Alex--very high interest here.


----------



## jinxy245

You can put one of those polls up top, but I have a feeling we all know thew outcome (more or less). There would be a LOT of interest in an affordable fully balanced version of the Liquid Platinum.


----------



## Jim N

I burning one in right now. Manual says nothing about using variant tubes. After 2+ hours of running a burn-in disk (mix of XLO and others) the thermal protection circuit kicked in. I was driving Fostex TH-X00 and it turns out the manual suggested doing burn in without driving a load, which I am doing now. Unit runs quite warm on the cover by the tubes.

Good solid feel to the unit with nice case work. Will post more later on. I have Massdrop Focal Elex (balanced), HD600 (balanced) and the aforementioned Fostex amongst other cans. My current amp inventory is Auralic Taurus Mk II, Questyle 600i, Yulong A8.


----------



## runeight

*Liquid Crimson --> Liquid Platinum*

OK. Let's see how this goes. 

First thing is, let's have a look at the Crimson. It is an embedded hybrid with no coupling caps. It uses 1 triode per channel, hence a single dual triode.

It is SE only with about 4-5W per channel into 50R. It has four supplies: Heater, HV, LV Rails, and Housekeeping.

It has a pretty beefy linear supply using a custom RCore transformer. It is all through hole components except for some housekeeping circuitry like the offset detector.

It uses a custom TKD volume control, Cardas RCA jacks and Neutrik headphone jacks.

It's also pretty big. Here's a photo:



 





Notice that the sides are entirely heatsinks. These sinks make it possible to make 4-5W SE. The output mosfets are biased at 150mA keeping in class A mode for a very long time as power demand goes up. Each mosfet burns about 5W at idle creating a minimum of 20W that has to get out of the box. There are also hot regulators attached to the heatsinks so let's say 25W.

The Crimson is made on a single board (I can't find the interior photos offhand).

So the engineering question is, how do we take this and turn it from SE to Balanced (which would increase the original size by at least 50%), then take the balanced version and make it 1/4 the size of the SE Crimson, and then get the cost to a more affordable level?? We'll get into that in the next post.


----------



## runeight

Jim N said:


> I burning one in right now. Manual says nothing about using variant tubes. After 2+ hours of running a burn-in disk (mix of XLO and others) the thermal protection circuit kicked in. I was driving Fostex TH-X00 and it turns out the manual suggested doing burn in without driving a load, which I am doing now. Unit runs quite warm on the cover by the tubes.
> 
> Good solid feel to the unit with nice case work. Will post more later on. I have Massdrop Focal Elex (balanced), HD600 (balanced) and the aforementioned Fostex amongst other cans. My current amp inventory is Auralic Taurus Mk II, Questyle 600i, Yulong A8.



I know I've mentioned this in other threads. MHO is that extended burn in is not necessary. The amp should sound ok out of the box and will slowly improve as you listen normally. When I do a new amp, I don't really burn in anymore, I just use it. Just my thoughts.

Also, performance really is better out of balanced out for all the reasons that you guys know. If you don't have balanced cables I highly recommend that you get some if you can.


----------



## Jim N

runeight said:


> I know I've mentioned this in other threads. MHO is that extended burn in is not necessary. The amp should sound ok out of the box and will slowly improve as you listen normally. When I do a new amp, I don't really burn in anymore, I just use it. Just my thoughts.
> 
> Also, performance really is better out of balanced out for all the reasons that you guys know. If you don't have balanced cables I highly recommend that you get some if you can.



Thanks for the info. It's a little rolled off on top right now and bass is a touch woolly so I'll give it a bit of time. I run balanced from my Gumby into the Auralic and now the Liquid Platinum. Busy doing other things so I'm letting it do it's own until a bit later on.


----------



## BearlyPizza (Nov 2, 2018)

I have to say.. The all metal casing looks a lot better in person than the photos on the monoprice site!  It feels quite sturdy too!
Sadly, i'm listening to it through SE until my balanced cable comes in! i'd like to give impressions, but i'd rather do that when I have my balanced cable =).
It does run a bit hot compared to what i'm used to though! Not hot enough to burn, but hotter than warm for sure when i'm touching the case.


Here's some photos!


----------



## Allanmarcus (Nov 2, 2018)

runeight said:


> Also, performance really is better out of balanced out for all the reasons that you guys know. If you don't have balanced cables I highly recommend that you get some if you can.





Jim N said:


> I run balanced from my Gumby into the Auralic and now the Liquid Platinum.



Just to clarify for everyone. Alex said balanced *out* has better performance. I assume there is one amp for each polarity for each channel (4 amps) vs 2 amps for SE out.

As for balanced vs SE *in*, they should be the same. Balanced sources will output more power to their balanced out, so using balanced in might sound louder than SE in from the same DAC, but unless there is RFI, it should pretty darned close, if not identical. Of course this assumes that output is the same quality from the source.

@runeight : Any comments on balanced in vs SE in WRT the Liquid Platinum?


----------



## PopZeus

Is there a big difference between running the input balanced versus SE? I only have one balanced out on my DAC, so I'm torn between the idea of running this (potentially) SE or the Liquid Carbon X.


----------



## runeight

Allanmarcus said:


> Just to clarify for everyone. Alex said balanced *out* has better performance. I assume there is one amp for each polarity for each channel (4 amps) vs 2 amps for SE out.
> 
> As for balanced vs SE *in*, they should be the same. Balanced sources will output more power to their balanced out, so using balanced in might sound louder than SE in from the same DAC, but unless there is RFI, it should pretty darned close, if not identical. Of course this assume that output is the same quality from the source.
> 
> @runeight : Any comments on balanced in vs SE in WRT the Liquid Platinum?



The Platinum uses two differential amps, one per channel. The Balanced is, obviously, taken between the two outputs of each amp. The SE, however, is taken from one output of each amp to ground. This means that SE can only output 1/4 the power into the same load. This is shown in the specs on MP website.

Human hearing, being logarithmic, doesn't really notice the power difference that much, especially when listening power is usually quite low and you can always change the volume setting. But I think the Bal out is a hair more dynamic than SE. And I have a general philosophy that a balanced amp should be run fully balanced in and out to get the best. Though this last idea is more of a personal thing than something measured out in detail.

At one point a while back I almost decided to remove the SE jacks from any future Balanced amp that i would make. A little extreme, I know, and others talked me out of it. 

If you use the Platinum SE I think you'll be very happy with what it's doing. It sounds great. I just think Bal out adds just a tad more to the experience. Subtle but hearable if you really try.

Input doesn't matter. The amp should perform the same regardless of Bal or RCA ins. The RCA in has a built-in splitter so that the lower level SE signal is doubled to be more consistent with the Bal input. I have a DAC where the Bal out outputs twice the amplitude of SE. When using the Carbon (with a similar arrangement) I can live swap from one input to the other and I, honestly, can't even tell that the switch has occurred. 

Oh. One interesting thing. With the Carbons there were quite a few questions about not being able to switch the output from Bal to SE and back using the input switch. So, just to maybe anticipate one or two of these, the button on the right only swaps the input selection. Both output jacks are live all the time.


----------



## runeight

BearlyPizza said:


> I have to say.. The all metal casing looks a lot better in person than the photos on the monoprice site!  It feels quite sturdy too!
> Sadly, i'm listening to it through SE until my balanced cable comes in! i'd like to give impressions, but i'd rather do that when I have my balanced cable =).
> It does run a bit hot compared to what i'm used to though! Not hot enough to burn, but hotter than warm for sure when i'm touching the case.
> 
> ...



It does run a little warm. Just be sure to give it lots of surrounding ventilation. Don't put it on top of something that is also hot.


----------



## BearlyPizza

runeight said:


> It does run a little warm. Just be sure to give it lots of surrounding ventilation. Don't put it on top of something that is also hot.



Definitely going to be giving it a lot of ventilation and its own spot on my desk! It's a lovely amp to listen to !


----------



## Jim N

runeight said:


> I know I've mentioned this in other threads. MHO is that extended burn in is not necessary. The amp should sound ok out of the box and will slowly improve as you listen normally. When I do a new amp, I don't really burn in anymore, I just use it. Just my thoughts.
> 
> Also, performance really is better out of balanced out for all the reasons that you guys know. If you don't have balanced cables I highly recommend that you get some if you can.



I just realized who responded . Thank you for taking the time here! I was greatly anticipating this amp!

I am running my Focal Elex balanced from the LP. I also have HD600 balanced. I had a long listening session last night with the Auralic driving the Elex balanced. I will listen to the same, very familiar CD's (Chick Corea / Ultimate Adventure, Dave Grusin / One of a Kind, Flim & The BB's Tunnel, Steely Dan /original issue MCA CD's of Aja and Gaucho) that I did last night. I know audible memory is quite short but I know these recordings very well and what details to look for.


----------



## alphanumerix1

runeight said:


> Also, I have this idea to write a few posts on how it was possible to engineer a very big and expensive, singled ended Liquid Crimson into an affordable, fully balanced version of the same amp now known as Liquid Platinum. You guys please let me know if this would be of interest on this thread.



Most definitely


----------



## runeight (Nov 3, 2018)

alphanumerix1 said:


> Most definitely



First post made a few posts back. Second one coming.


----------



## Jim N

Jim N said:


> Thanks for the info. It's a little rolled off on top right now and bass is a touch woolly so I'll give it a bit of time. I run balanced from my Gumby into the Auralic and now the Liquid Platinum. Busy doing other things so I'm letting it do it's own until a bit later on.



Quoting oneself does seem a bit tacky but.... amp is settling in quite nicely. Getting ready for the night's listening session. Will use the Elex balanced. 

Alex, anything you wish to share would be greatly enjoyed and appreciated.


----------



## runeight

Give the tubes at least 50 hrs to clear out. Should come to sound signature around 100 hrs. Should be recognizable change about 25 hrs. Don't rush this process. Most importantly have a good time. I'll be back in Texas morning.


----------



## Rattle

@runeight can you give any impression on which headphones have great synergy with the platinum? I bought a spark and really liked it with HD600 and HD6xx which are my back and forth headphones.


----------



## runeight

Rattle said:


> @runeight can you give any impression on which headphones have great synergy with the platinum? I bought a spark and really liked it with HD600 and HD6xx which are my back and forth headphones.



I would like to, but I really don't know. There have been so many new headphones introduced in the last several years that it is impossible to keep up. In addition, headphone technology is getting better and better.

I also think that synergy is partly in the ear of the beholder. My guess is that the current group of owners will have things to say about this over the next month or so and I will learn along with everyone else.


----------



## rockytopwiz

I'm hoping to hear of some impressions with the he1000.  I had read in the liquid crimson thread that it was an excellent match, but reading the Platinum has a more rolled off bass has left me perplexed.  I like bass


----------



## alphanumerix1

Jim N said:


> Quoting oneself does seem a bit tacky but.... amp is settling in quite nicely. Getting ready for the night's listening session. Will use the Elex balanced.
> 
> Alex, anything you wish to share would be greatly enjoyed and appreciated.



How's the elex pairing?


----------



## zfisch1

I own the massdrop cavalli (mcth). Interested to hear from @runeight and others how you would compare the two. Especially what are the areas that the platinum outperforms the mcth. (running auteurs balanced with modi multibit). Thanks!


----------



## runeight

zfisch1 said:


> I own the massdrop cavalli (mcth). Interested to hear from @runeight and others how you would compare the two. Especially what are the areas that the platinum outperforms the mcth. (running auteurs balanced with modi multibit). Thanks!



The CTH is a really fine amp. There are several places where the Platinum is different:

1. Balanced vs. SE
1. Power output - 1W CTH, 3.6W (Bal) Platinum
2. Cap coupled hybrid CTH , DC coupled embedded hybrid Platinum
4. Totally different amp topologies.


----------



## jinxy245

runeight said:


> The CTH is a really fine amp. There are several places where the Platinum is different:
> 
> 1. Balanced vs. SE
> 1. Power output - 1W CTH, 3.6W (Bal) Platinum
> ...


Sounds like the Platinum is the logical upgrade...I hope they'll be able to keep it in stock long enough for me to save up.


----------



## runeight (Nov 3, 2018)

*Liquid Crimson --> Liquid Platinum II*

If you haven't seen this, please go here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...-by-alex-cavalli.876406/page-28#post-14575341

To squeeze a balanced Crimson into the Platinum sized box at 1/4 the price requires several engineering changes.

1. *Power output* - Today's headphones are, in general, more efficient than when the Crimson was designed. While back then 4-5W might have been a necessity, today it is not. Most (but not all) headphones will run happily to ear-splitting levels at much less power. Thus, the first engineering change is to reduce the power output. Not by than much, but by enough to be practical. This includes going to a balanced topology which reduces the rail voltages considerably.

2. *Power supplies* - there simply isn't enough room for a big transformer and linear supplies in the box and on the board. The only possible solution is an outboard supply, in this case for efficiency an SMPS. Then, this SMPS is used to create all of the needed supplies - LV rails, Housekeeping, HV and Heater.

The HV and Heater supplies are made with small DC-DC converters. These are efficient, small, and perfectly suitable for the constant low current requirements of the tube portion of the circuit. Some would claim that linear supplies would be better here even if they provided less voltage. I would disagree. The Platinum HV supply makes over 100V to place the 6922 at a very good operating point. The CTH, to note, also has a 100V HV supply instead of a lower voltage linear one.

Thus, the very big Crimson linear supplies are replaced with very small and/or outboard supplies which are all super efficient. This reduces the power demands of the amp a lot and the power dissipated by the non-audio components.

3. *Power Dissipation* - the confines of the new box and lack of external heatsinks demands much lower power dissipation. This is partly accomplished with the new supplies. It is also accomplished by reducing the idle currents in the output devices significantly. Whereas the Crimson's output devices burnt almost 5W each at idle the Platinum's output devices burn less than 1/2 per device. The Platinum's outputs are cooled through the board making it possible to get it all in this small enclosure.

4. *SMD vs Through Hole* - the Crimson was nearly entirely hand-assembled through hole components (expensive). The biggest change in the footprint of the Platinum is its use of SMD components. They are vastly smaller, don't compromise the performance, and are auto assembled dramatically reducing the manufacturing cost.

All of these 4 engineering changes working together are what makes it possible to offer the Platinum in its small box at the current price point.


----------



## llcook51

sahmen said:


> Mine is Wednesday, 11/7, but I am on the East coast
> 
> My extra charges were :
> 
> ...


Same for me in Florida minus the state taxes.


----------



## llcook51

runeight said:


> Hey guys, I'd like to answer a Q that is occasionally lately asked about this amp and others that have been available through MD and now MP. I addressed this really early in the CTH conversation, but maybe a good time to repeat it.
> 
> The Cavalli amps coming through MP, including this one, are exclusively my designs. As you have read here, this particular amp was shown at CanJam SoCal two years ago. I do all the prototyping until the product is ready for production. The final boards are my design and all of the electronic components are specified by me. Mechanical components are approved by me. No subs are allowed without my approval. This means that the electronic comps are from dependable, commercial quality vendors like Vishay, Panasonic, Nichicon, KOA, Susumu, Bourns, OnSemi, Infineon, etc. Subs are always made from manufacturers like these. I have never believed it is necessary to use expensive boutique comps to make really good amps, but I do believe that you must use basic, excellent quality comps from reputable manufacturers.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much. Your insight would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Jim N

alphanumerix1 said:


> How's the elex pairing?



Positive after last night's session. Had about 16 hours burn-in on the LP and 140 on the Elex (balanced) at the time. Right now my standard of comparison is an Auralic Taurus Mk II. I listened for about 3 hours. Bass is quite solid and highs are just a touch recessed right now. It seems like it is taking shape so to speak. Nice tonality on very forward piano and aggressive tenor sax and they also have nice weight to them. It is evolving from initial quick listens earlier and I am sure it will continue to do so. Not night and day (as the amp sounds quite nice right now) but more in the way of refinement.

By slightly recessed highs I am using a track by Flim & The BB's titled "Room With A View of You" off their "Tunnel" album as an example. There is a glockenspiel part that repeats after the chorus and it's a bit more prominent on the Taurus. This was one of the first CD's I bought and has been in regular rotation for me since the mid 80's. That part was one of the first things that sold me on CD's.

After having the thermal protection circuit kick in once while running a very challenging burn in disk with Fostex TH-X00 connected via TRS it has not happened again but I have had balanced Elex connected. Volume was set at between 9 and 10 o'clock when running the burn in and listening. I do not crank the volume.

By way of full disclosure I am in my 60's and have very mild tinnitus. The latter is variable so it can impact each listening session differently. I won't be doing a back and forth comparo between amps. I'll run my HD600 balanced tonight. 

I am enjoying the amp. I did not buy it hoping it would exceed the Taurus in all areas but rather to have two different perspectives and synergy. No regrets so far.

I noted Alex's comment on the SMPS providing more than adequate power but I am curious about added noise versus an LPS. It would appear that any LPS efforts are being left to aftermarket vendors. I completely understand the sacrifices needed to achieve the price point. I could never afford a Liquid Crimson. Also understand the point about dissipation as this is a very small enclosure and the top in front of the tubes is quite warm when running as it is. This is a very carefully thought out design that required some serious tightrope walking and balancing of conflicting needs. I am glad Alex made this effort.

Any thoughts on tube rolling? The tube socket requires a lot of pressure to seat the tubes and wonder if the unit is voiced with the included Electro Harmonix 6922, which is not a bad tube at all.


----------



## spyder1

runeight.

When using the Liquid Platinum (SE output to powered speakers, AMP {pass through}), does the Liquid Platinum vacuum tube stage have a "tube buffer effect" on the SE [Pass Through] output?


----------



## runeight

Jim N said:


> Snip....
> 
> Any thoughts on tube rolling? The tube socket requires a lot of pressure to seat the tubes and wonder if the unit is voiced with the included Electro Harmonix 6922, which is not a bad tube at all.



The socket will be tight at the beginning until the tangs relax a little. The amp isn't really made for a lot of tube rolling, though as you guys know from my previous comments, I knew that some folks would do some tube rolling in any case.

The amp is not voiced to the EHs. I don't actually voice amps in any way. I generally have a set of goals and then let the amp sound the way it will.


----------



## runeight

spyder1 said:


> runeight.
> 
> When using the Liquid Platinum (SE output to powered speakers, AMP {pass through}), does the Liquid Platinum vacuum tube stage have a "tube buffer effect" on the SE [Pass Through] output?



Not in this design. The loop out on the RCA input is directly wired to the input jacks. Nothing in between.


----------



## Holypal

Jim N said:


> Positive after last night's session. Had about 16 hours burn-in on the LP and 140 on the Elex (balanced) at the time. Right now my standard of comparison is an Auralic Taurus Mk II. I listened for about 3 hours. Bass is quite solid and highs are just a touch recessed right now. It seems like it is taking shape so to speak. Nice tonality on very forward piano and aggressive tenor sax and they also have nice weight to them. It is evolving from initial quick listens earlier and I am sure it will continue to do so. Not night and day (as the amp sounds quite nice right now) but more in the way of refinement.
> 
> By slightly recessed highs I am using a track by Flim & The BB's titled "Room With A View of You" off their "Tunnel" album as an example. There is a glockenspiel part that repeats after the chorus and it's a bit more prominent on the Taurus. This was one of the first CD's I bought and has been in regular rotation for me since the mid 80's. That part was one of the first things that sold me on CD's.
> 
> ...




Could you make a comparison between LP and Taurus Mk II?


----------



## runeight

Regarding tube rolling, I suggest that if you are not ready to buy expensive NOS 6922s, first try the Genalex Gold Lions (gold pins). They are more expensive than the EHs, but they have a slightly different sound signature.


----------



## sahmen

runeight said:


> *Liquid Crimson --> Liquid Platinum II*
> 
> If you haven't seen this, please go here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...-by-alex-cavalli.876406/page-28#post-14575341
> ...



@runeight : Thanks for outlining these engineering changes.  Given how substantial they are or seem to be, though, they've led, almost naturally to another pressing question in my mind, one which I have been initially hesitant to ask, because of its potential sensitivity.  However, I cannot help considering it to be an important question, and I am quite likely not the only one who is being nagged by such a question.  After a couple of hours of mulling it over, I have come to the conclusion that the best approach would be to go ahead and just ask it, offering you the opportunity to address it (or not) in any way you're most comfortable with...

So here goes :

What changes in the sound signature or quality of the crimson (however minimal) were you anticipating from this process of shrinking it down into the smaller Platinum's box, and to what extent has the end result met your expectations?

Okay, it sounds as if I am cheating by asking two questions instead of the promised one.  However, in my defense, I just see anticipation and results as two parts of the same question, if you see what I mean. 

Your thoughts about this question would definitely be appreciated, as usual.


----------



## runeight

sahmen said:


> @runeight : Thanks for outlining these engineering changes.  Given how substantial they are or seem to be, though, they've led, almost naturally to another pressing question in my mind, one which I have been initially hesitant to ask, because of its potential sensitivity.  However, I cannot help considering it to be an important question, and I am quite likely not the only one who is being nagged by such a question.  After a couple of hours of mulling it over, I have come to the conclusion that the best approach would be to go ahead and just ask it, offering you the opportunity to address it (or not) in any way you're most comfortable with...
> 
> So here goes :
> 
> ...



No probs. I had expected this question. I cannot give you a perfect answer though. 

From circuit topological point of view, the Platinum is exactly a Crimson, only balanced. I expected it to sound pretty much like the Crimson does. And I think it does. It just doesn't have quite the same output power. Close, but not the same.

I don't happen to have a Crimson at hand so I cannot due a strict A/B. This will have to come from others who might eventually have both. I think Hansotek did a little bit of memory comparison in his review.


----------



## sahmen

runeight said:


> No probs. I had expected this question. I cannot give you a perfect answer though.
> 
> From circuit topological point of view, the Platinum is exactly a Crimson, only balanced. I expected it to sound pretty much like the Crimson does. And I think it does. It just doesn't have quite the same output power. Close, but not the same.
> 
> I don't happen to have a Crimson at hand so I cannot due a strict A/B. This will have to come from others who might eventually have both. I think Hansotek did a little bit of memory comparison in his review.




Thanks @runeight : it strikes me as if you are saying that you do not expect or see any important deviations in Sq performance, moving from one unit to the other, and I find that to be very reassuring, as someone who has a platinum being shipped to my destination as we speak...

So thanks again, for addressing this question,


----------



## runeight

sahmen said:


> Thanks @runeight : it strikes me as if you are saying that you do not expect or see any important deviations in Sq performance, moving from one unit to the other, and I find that to be very reassuring, as someone who has a platinum being shipped to my destination as we speak...
> 
> So thanks again, for addressing this question,



They should be similar, but only those who have both can do the direct comparison to hear the differences. Keep in mind that the Crimson was a $3k amp. The Platinum does make those engineering choices I described above to achieve its size and price point.

I just want to be clear that you all are not getting a full Liquid Crimson, but perhaps something that is within reach of it.

Also, note that the Platinum measures very well. See MP website and some posts earlier in this thread.

I think we'll have to wait as the reports come in.


----------



## Jim N

Holypal said:


> Could you make a comparison between LP and Taurus Mk II?



Only indirectly in my commentary. I've had my Taurus almost 2 years and have listened to it for a few thousand hours playing a wide variety of music using 6 different pairs of headphones. It would be unfair to fully compare them now since the LP is still refining with burn-in and I have only listened to it for a few hours with only one set of cans.I want to level the playing field a bit more. I also want to get past the "new toy" stage with it.

I will be keeping both for the foreseeable future.  I have nothing negative to say about the LP so far. Time will tell.


----------



## sahmen

runeight said:


> They should be similar, but only those who have both can do the direct comparison to hear the differences. Keep in mind that the Crimson was a $3k amp. The Platinum does make those engineering choices I described above to achieve its size and price point.
> 
> I just want to be clear that you all are not getting a full Liquid Crimson, but perhaps something that is within reach of it.
> 
> ...



Understood. I do have a Liquid Carbon v1, and the Spark, to compare with the Platinum, but not the Crimson, so I too would be looking forward to those reports.  I get the sense that comparisons under these circumstances would involve a delicate balancing act, but it is all good.  I see a few exciting moments ahead.


----------



## greenkiwi

Well, I can say that I am just very excited to have this.  I have been regretting missing the RMAF Crimson deal from 2015 since I saw it.   I'd heard the LP in it's uncased bare form at a meet in San Francisco and kept hoping it would come out.  When CA closed its doors, I was really tempted by the MD CTH, but upon listening, it didn't really do it for me.    At any rate, I can't wait to give this a listen at work all next week.  And I'm still a little bummed I didn't pick up the crimson for $1850... but heck, that's still 2+x the cost of the LP. 

@runeight Thanks for finding a way to make this happen.


----------



## greenkiwi

Random question, what at what temp does the thermal protection kick in?  I've seen it mentioned a couple times now.

And what is considered warm vs hot in terms of normal running temp for the amp?


----------



## runeight (Nov 4, 2018)

greenkiwi said:


> Random question, what at what temp does the thermal protection kick in?  I've seen it mentioned a couple times now.
> 
> And what is considered warm vs hot in terms of normal running temp for the amp?



Glad you asked. I've meant to comment on that.

The interrupt was the DC offset detector to protect headphones from too much DC at the output should that occur. All of my big amps had this feature. So does the Spark.

The amp doesn't have thermal protection. It does run pretty warm and so needs good free air ventilation.


----------



## Jim N

runeight said:


> Glad you asked. I've meant to comment on that.
> 
> The interrupt was the DC offset detector to protect headphones from too much DC at the output should that occur. All of my big amps had this feature. So does the Spark.
> 
> The amp doesn't have thermal protection. It does run pretty warm and so needs good free air ventilation.



Thanks for information. I'll use the correct description. It has not occurred again and i have been running the amp continuously 12-14 hours at a shot for two days now. 

I misread "protection circuit" from the Enjoy The Music review of the LP.


----------



## DRHamp

I’m unclear on the se rca outs on the back - I think I read that they are not pre-outs (no volume control) - so what is their function?


----------



## Zachik

DRHamp said:


> I’m unclear on the se rca outs on the back - I think I read that they are not pre-outs (no volume control) - so what is their function?


Their function is to be able to connect to another amp. So, for example, if you have 1 DAC and 2 amps - you do not need a splitter.


----------



## jsmiller58

DRHamp said:


> I’m unclear on the se rca outs on the back - I think I read that they are not pre-outs (no volume control) - so what is their function?


As @Zachik say, allows you to daisy chain two amps together so they share and can simultaneously run off of the same DAC.  A pretty useful feature.  Also exists on the LCX.  In the case of the LCX, the LCX has to also be turned on for this feature to work correctly (not sure why).  Might or might not be the case that the 789 needs to be on for the second amp to work when chained to it.


----------



## Zachik

jsmiller58 said:


> As @Zachik say, allows you to daisy chain two amps together so they share and can simultaneously run off of the same DAC.  A pretty useful feature.  Also exists on the LCX.  In the case of the LCX, the LCX has to also be turned on for this feature to work correctly (not sure why).  Might or might not be the case that the 789 needs to be on for the second amp to work when chained to it.


I own the LCX and CTH, and use the pass-through from the LCX to feed CTH. The LCX does NOT need to be on! works perfectly fine.


----------



## jsmiller58

Zachik said:


> I own the LCX and CTH, and use the pass-through from the LCX to feed CTH. The LCX does NOT need to be on! works perfectly fine.


That’s great!  I had read elsewhere that it was required to be on, but either that info was wrong or in later drops this has been addressed.  

In any event, a very useful feature!

One other thing, I think the LCX only passes to those output RCA the input from single ended DAC.  I don’t believe that it will take a balanced input and pass along a single ended output...  can you confirm?


----------



## runeight

jsmiller58 said:


> That’s great!  I had read elsewhere that it was required to be on, but either that info was wrong or in later drops this has been addressed.
> 
> In any event, a very useful feature!
> 
> One other thing, I think the LCX only passes to those output RCA the input from single ended DAC.  I don’t believe that it will take a balanced input and pass along a single ended output...  can you confirm?



Does not loop balanced.


----------



## jsmiller58

runeight said:


> Does not loop balanced.


Thank you, Alex!  If anyone would know, that would be you


----------



## hemtmaker

Is the liquid platinum a significant step up of the liquid carbon Alex? Welcome back and thanks for doing this


----------



## shultzee

I had a Liquid Crimson and to this day it was my favorite HP amp.  I really regret ever letting it go.  If the LP is close that is quite an achievement.


----------



## Odin412

hemtmaker said:


> Is the liquid platinum a significant step up of the liquid carbon Alex? Welcome back and thanks for doing this



That's an interesting question. I have the original Liquid Carbon and I'm very interested in the new Liquid Platinum. If anyone has had the opportunity to compare then please share your impressions!


----------



## alphanumerix1

Is there only one review sample out? @Hansotek  Can you say who was next in queue?


----------



## runeight

alphanumerix1 said:


> Is there only one review sample out? @Hansotek  Can you say who was next in queue?



I'd have to ask MP about this.


----------



## runeight

shultzee said:


> I had a Liquid Crimson and to this day it was my favorite HP amp.  I really regret ever letting it go.  If the LP is close that is quite an achievement.



You know, we only made 30 of these. 2 are demo units, the rest in the hands of owners. Should you ever find another one, might be a good idea to keep it.


----------



## heliosphann

runeight said:


> You know, we only made 30 of these. 2 are demo units, the rest in the hands of owners. Should you ever find another one, might be a good idea to keep it.



There was only 32 total Liquid Crimson's produced???

Man... Now I'm even more upset. lol


----------



## runeight

hemtmaker said:


> Is the liquid platinum a significant step up of the liquid carbon Alex? Welcome back and thanks for doing this



I guess that depends on what you mean by a step up. They are both balanced amps. Carbon is SS and Platinum is tube hybrid. Platinum has more power, but not a LOT more power. It is enough more power, however, that you would probably notice.

They both have the family sound, but they are different too.


----------



## runeight

heliosphann said:


> There was only 32 total Liquid Crimson's produced???
> 
> Man... Now I'm even more upset. lol



One of my children has one as part of the CA museum. They are forbidden to even think about selling it.


----------



## Odin412

runeight said:


> Regarding tube rolling, I suggest that if you are not ready to buy expensive NOS 6922s, first try the Genalex Gold Lions (gold pins). They are more expensive than the EHs, but they have a slightly different sound signature.



That is a good suggestion. I tried the Gold Lions on a Woo Audio WA3 and I thought that they had a bold, vivid midrange that I really liked. The vintage tube mafia will likely hunt me down and kill me for saying this, but I actually prefer them to many of the vintage 6922s that I have. It would be interesting to see if they have good synergy with the Liquid Platinum.


----------



## Odin412

runeight said:


> They both have the family sound, but they are different too.



And the temptation increases...


----------



## Pharmaboy

I have a Liquid Carbon v2--an amp I just love. It does so many things right. So naturally I'm curious about the Platinum, which has not just the Cavalli sonic pedigree, but a hybrid design (I don't own any amps like it). Lots of curiosity about this amp...


----------



## runeight

Odin412 said:


> And the temptation increases...



Yes, there really is no mercy when it comes to the headphone habit...........


----------



## runeight (Nov 4, 2018)

Odin412 said:


> That is a good suggestion. I tried the Gold Lions on a Woo Audio WA3 and I thought that they had a bold, vivid midrange that I really liked. The vintage tube mafia will likely hunt me down and kill me for saying this, but I actually prefer them to many of the vintage 6922s that I have. It would be interesting to see if they have good synergy with the Liquid Platinum.



I agree with you so I might not live much longer either.


----------



## runeight

Pharmaboy said:


> I have a Liquid Carbon v2--an amp I just love. It does so many things right. So naturally I'm curious about the Platinum, which has not just the Cavalli sonic pedigree, but a hybrid design (I don't own any amps like it). Lots of curiosity about this amp...



See my response to Odin412


----------



## NEXTLEVEL5

Can 396a , 2c51 tubes work with this amp if used with adapters?


----------



## Allanmarcus (Nov 5, 2018)

What happened to the negative review earlier in the thread from the guy that kept hearing hum out of the LP? Do the poster delete it, or did headfi?

Turned out to possibly be a review for another product that was posted to the wrong thread, then fixed.


----------



## Walderstorn

Good question.


----------



## Jozurr

runeight said:


> You know, we only made 30 of these. 2 are demo units, the rest in the hands of owners. Should you ever find another one, might be a good idea to keep it.



and I have two


----------



## elwappo99

Jozurr said:


> and I have two



Hey hey hey now. I still have dibs on that Canadian one.... please


----------



## Rattle

jsmiller58 said:


> As @Zachik say, allows you to daisy chain two amps together so they share and can simultaneously run off of the same DAC.  A pretty useful feature.  Also exists on the LCX.  In the case of the LCX, the LCX has to also be turned on for this feature to work correctly (not sure why).  Might or might not be the case that the 789 needs to be on for the second amp to work when chained to it.



Can the liquid spark be used in the same way ?


----------



## jsmiller58

Rattle said:


> Can the liquid spark be used in the same way ?


I see in photos that there is a second pair of RCA outputs.  But I don't know if those can used in the same way.


----------



## rockytopwiz

Retracted


----------



## jsmiller58

rockytopwiz said:


> Retracted


??

Did you find the reviews you were looking for?

??


----------



## rockytopwiz

jsmiller58 said:


> ??
> 
> Did you find the reviews you were looking for?
> 
> ??


No, I still haven't been able to locate that review.  However, I thought that @Allanmarcus quote was deleted because I saw new posts about the RCA passthrough again, not realizing (or really reading) that they were referring to the spark.  In other words, I was confused, been a long night writing a paper.  Sorry if I confused anyone else.


----------



## Allanmarcus

Anyone remember the name of the member that wrote the review? IIRC, he was new to head-fi.


----------



## runeight

Allanmarcus said:


> Anyone remember the name of the member that wrote the review? IIRC, he was new to head-fi.



You mean Hansotek? If so, I think he's been here 4-5 years.


----------



## Hansotek

runeight said:


> You mean Hansotek? If so, I think he's been here 4-5 years.



He’s talking about some “negative” review... I think Allen is just confusing this thread with the Spark thread. IIRC, it turned out to be the guy’s DAC making the noise.


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

His DAC's RCA connection to his LS in particular:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...-by-alex-cavalli.876407/page-12#post-14561913

Let's move on.


----------



## shultzee

runeight said:


> One of my children has one as part of the CA museum. They are forbidden to even think about selling it.




Give me his/her name and let me negotiate


----------



## Allanmarcus (Nov 5, 2018)

Hansotek said:


> He’s talking about some “negative” review... I think Allen is just confusing this thread with the Spark thread. IIRC, it turned out to be the guy’s DAC making the noise.


I don't think so, since the guy was talking about tube rolling and it's affect on the hum. At any rate, we can certainly move on. Sorry for the bother.

I was confusing another Monoprice amp, the Monolith by Monoprice Tube Headphone Amplifier with ESS Sabre DAC (29511)

Post #22

Too many dang monoprice amps!


----------



## greenkiwi

@runeight I had some strange behavior with the protection kicking in.  On Friday, I had it kick in repeatedly.  It kicked in after approximately 45m of listening, and then it happened 3-4 more times.   After I noticed it happened, I turned everything off for a while and and still happened.

Then today, I decided that I'd try it out and it hasn't had any issues all day.  Same DAC and same headphones.  (LHLabs Geek Pulse Infinity balanced out, Ether C headphones balanced)

On Friday, I actually had the volume turned down on the LHLabs, so that the volume on it's headphone output would match the LP.  This meant that the volume had to be at 2 o'clock or so, since the DAC was at -34dB output.  I started this morning with the DAC at -0dB and the LP at 9 o'clock, then experimented shifting it back to the other way and it didn't have any issues.  It's temp is right in the same ballpark temp as it was yesterday too.

Is this just a "glitch" or the tubes burning in and creating some initial DC offset?

Overall, I'm really enjoying it.  Though worrying over the weekend that there was an issue wasn't much fun.


----------



## sahmen

greenkiwi said:


> @runeight I had some strange behavior with the protection kicking in.  On Friday, I had it kick in repeatedly.  It kicked in after approximately 45m of listening, and then it happened 3-4 more times.   After I noticed it happened, I turned everything off for a while and and still happened.
> 
> Then today, I decided that I'd try it out and it hasn't had any issues all day.  Same DAC and same headphones.  (LHLabs Geek Pulse Infinity balanced out, Ether C headphones balanced)
> 
> ...



Signs of "growing" ...errr "burning in" pains?  Juuust kidding.

Seriously, though, I have been waiting for nearly a week now for mine to arrive, so I am envying you guys on the West coast who received your LPs in what, a couple of hours, after purchase? Aren't you just lucky?  I wish I was the one who is already dealing with the "burning in" pains? Not that I particularly like glitches in general, anyway...

BTW @greenkiwi , would you be willing to share your impressions in a little more detail when the dust over these initial issues have settled?


----------



## runeight

greenkiwi said:


> @runeight I had some strange behavior with the protection kicking in.  On Friday, I had it kick in repeatedly.  It kicked in after approximately 45m of listening, and then it happened 3-4 more times.   After I noticed it happened, I turned everything off for a while and and still happened.
> 
> Then today, I decided that I'd try it out and it hasn't had any issues all day.  Same DAC and same headphones.  (LHLabs Geek Pulse Infinity balanced out, Ether C headphones balanced)
> 
> ...



It could just be burning in issues, but it's not temperature related. The amp doesn't have temperature sensing.

The detector is looking at the DC at the output and deciding it is above a safe threshold. Since the amp is fully DC from in to out, it's hard to know what might be the cause of it, but if it's settling down let's see what happens. Sometimes plugging a TRS plug in while delivering output will cause the circuit to trip bc of the shorting caused by the insertion of the plug. This is not actually a bad thing.


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y (Nov 5, 2018)

@greenkiwi

How is the sound w/ your Geek Pulse Infinity?

Decided to delay my purchase since I will be out of the country this month and again next.



greenkiwi said:


> @runeight I had some strange behavior with the protection kicking in.  On Friday, I had it kick in repeatedly.  It kicked in after approximately 45m of listening, and then it happened 3-4 more times.   After I noticed it happened, I turned everything off for a while and and still happened.
> 
> Then today, I decided that I'd try it out and it hasn't had any issues all day.  Same DAC and same headphones.  (LHLabs Geek Pulse Infinity balanced out, Ether C headphones balanced)
> 
> ...


----------



## talan7

Just ordered the Monolith by Monoprice Portable Headphone Amplifier and DAC with THX AAA Technology. I wish it too had dual DACs and balanced out. Still, I got it for the sensaround and the eq ability. Should sound nice.


----------



## rockytopwiz

talan7 said:


> Just ordered the Monolith by Monoprice Portable Headphone Amplifier and DAC with THX AAA Technology. I wish it too had dual DACs and balanced out. Still, I got it for the sensaround and the eq ability. Should sound nice.


How?  Still says OOS for me


----------



## jsmiller58

rockytopwiz said:


> How?  Still says OOS for me


No, definitely available.  Has been for a couple of hours at least.  Refresh page, possibly clear your browser cache.


----------



## rockytopwiz

jsmiller58 said:


> No, definitely available.  Has been for a couple of hours at least.  Refresh page, possibly clear your browser cache.



Missed that portable word in there, jeeze I can't read write apparently.


----------



## jsmiller58

rockytopwiz said:


> Missed that portable word in there, jeeze I can't read write apparently.


It’s the crazy voodoo spell that Monoprice has put on us!  That, and constantly refreshing the same page over and over, thinking, just ONE MORE TRY!


----------



## rockytopwiz

jsmiller58 said:


> It’s the crazy voodoo spell that Monoprice has put on us!  That, and constantly refreshing the same page over and over, thinking, just ONE MORE TRY!


----------



## talan7

rockytopwiz said:


> How?  Still says OOS for me



The desktop is still oos. I may get it when it becomes available if I love the portable version.


----------



## Luckbad

jsmiller58 said:


> What LPS are you using?  If I am going down the rabbit hole, I might as well go all the way down the rabbit hole...



I wouldn't suggest going down my exact LPS path. I have several vintage linear bench power supplies. The one I'm using with the Liquid Platinum is the Power Designs 5015D, but it's been calibrated and it's a crapshoot if you buy one whether it will perform to spec.

Some notes from listening with a linear power supply versus stock:

Most DC barrels that I see on headphone gear are 5.5 x 2.1 mm. This jack is not. I believe it's 5.5 x 2.5 mm. 
Yep, it's worth getting one with this unit. Linear power does all of the things for this amp that it does in others. Slightly cleaner, better blackground, improved bass, etc. You should be able to get one for under $200 and it's worth it.


----------



## llcook51

My CLP arrived this afternoon. Perfect match for the HD 800S. Tight and abundant bass with clear pleasing highs.
Definition is natural with really deep soundstage.
Wonderfully musical.


----------



## llcook51

Luckbad said:


> I wouldn't suggest going down my exact LPS path. I have several vintage linear bench power supplies. The one I'm using with the Liquid Platinum is the Power Designs 5015D, but it's been calibrated and it's a crapshoot if you buy one whether it will perform to spec.
> 
> Some notes from listening with a linear power supply versus stock:
> 
> ...


Suggestions as to power supplies that you can recommend?


----------



## NEXTLEVEL5

Mine came in today as well. I didn't even bother with the stock tubes since I had some Tesla's available. The amp is smaller than I thought it would be which is good. Plenty of power on this amp. My initial impressions are extremely positive. It sounds very good. Running them with the focal utopias.


----------



## sahmen

llcook51 said:


> Suggestions as to power supplies that you can recommend?



There's likely a new one in the works from Wyred4Sound that would be custom made for the LP :  See here for info about it :

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cav...h-liquid-platinum-power-supply-option.889962/


----------



## hemtmaker

llcook51 said:


> My CLP arrived this afternoon. Perfect match for the HD 800S. Tight and abundant bass with clear pleasing highs.
> Definition is natural with really deep soundstage.
> Wonderfully musical.



How does it pair with ether 2?


----------



## elwappo99

@runeight 

If these units have an issue and need repair is that a service the Monoprice will offer? One nice thing about your legacy amps is that they have Avenson.


----------



## MattTCG

hemtmaker said:


> How does it pair with ether 2?



Very early, but initial impressions are very good for me.


----------



## Phantaminum (Nov 7, 2018)

Received my unit yesterday and along with the Hifiman Ananda loaner.

Initial impressions are that the Liquid Platinum pair very well with planars. It gives the Ananda a nice and tight low end rumble on just the single ended connection. Loaner didn’t come with a balanced cable unfortunately. AFO sounds great out of it on a balanced connection but I’ll need more time with this pairing. Auteurs also have a “good” pairing with it but sounds magical from an OTL. Haven’t had a opportunity to try it with the HD650s.

The LP isn’t as fast as the Jotunheim but it has an ease to the way it handles music. Tubes affect the sound moreso than the MCTH. I found my Siemens too bright with the Ananda and Auteurs but the Phillips SQs gave me a great middle ground. I’ll share more thoughts later next week as this week is packed with after work functions.


----------



## sahmen (Nov 7, 2018)

Listening with the Hifiman He 1000v1 (modded), I've been using the LP, paired with the Metrum Onyx DAC, and the Metrum Ambre Roon bridge, and my initial impressions are all very positive. Even so, I am still clinging to the hope that a good external LPS will help squeeze out an extra nice X% of audio goodness out of this unit... Maybe it is the effect of having read too many reviews/assessments about the Liquid Platinum and Linear Power Supplies, or maybe the Platinum is too closely haunted by the "ghost" of the excellent Crimson it is modeled on... I am not sure what it is, but I can't shake that longing for that other LPS just to see how much higher it can get the LP to scale in performance.  The good news, though, is that the LP already sounds very very good, even with its stock tubes, and stock SMPS, and the feeling that things can only get better with further tweaking is very comforting indeed.


----------



## llcook51

sahmen said:


> There's likely a new one in the works from Wyred4Sound that would be custom made for the LP :  See here for info about it :
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cav...h-liquid-platinum-power-supply-option.889962/


Thanks so much.


----------



## llcook51 (Nov 7, 2018)

MattTCG said:


> Very early, but initial impressions are very good for me.


I agree. The CLP lets the Ether2 bass extend to its depth. Coming from the Jotunheim there is a significant difference.  The CLP isn’t as fast as the Jotunheim but it seems to open the Ether2 up more.
Much more listening and time for both the CLP and Ether2 to burn into my brain before I will have any real meaningful comments.
All is so subjective. So far, I like what I hear from both the CLP and the Ether2.
The CLP also pairs well with the HD 800S and HEKv2.


----------



## greenkiwi

With the talk of LPSs, I wonder how much difference a noise nuke would make, perhaps at a much lower cost.


----------



## rockytopwiz (Nov 7, 2018)

llcook51 said:


> I agree. The CLP lets the Ether2 bass extend to its depth. Coming from the Jotunheim there is a significant difference.  The CLP isn’t as fast as the Jotunheim but it seems to open the Ether2 up more.
> Much more listening and time for both the CLP and Ether2 to burn into my brain before I will have any real meaningful comments.
> All is so subjective. So far, I like what I hear from both the CLP and the Ether2.
> The CLP also pairs well with the HD 800S and HEKv2.



Too many choices .  I'm looking at upgrading to either the ether 2 or getting the LP for my he1000.  Since you have now heard both, which would you choose if you could only have one?

Same question to you @MattTCG


----------



## Hansotek

rockytopwiz said:


> Too many choices .  I'm looking at upgrading to either the ether 2 or getting the LP for my he1000.  Since you have now heard both, which would you choose if you could only have one?
> 
> Same question to you @MattTCG



As a former Crimson owner, I can tell you the HE1000 and the Crimson were an incredible pairing. That should hold for the Platinum too. The Ether 2 is incredible as well, I didn't get a chance to hear it on the Crimson, but of the setups I have heard it on, Dan's Liquid Glass and Mystique was far and away the best. I know that probably didn't make things any easier, just another datapoint.


----------



## rockytopwiz

Hansotek said:


> As a former Crimson owner, I can tell you the HE1000 and the Crimson were an incredible pairing. That should hold for the Platinum too. The Ether 2 is incredible as well, I didn't get a chance to hear it on the Crimson, but of the setups I have heard it on, Dan's Liquid Glass and Mystique was far and away the best. I know that probably didn't make things any easier, just another datapoint.


Your comments on the crimson we're what piqued my interest in the lp.  All input is appreciated, I'm so indecisive.  The research is part of the journey.  Thank you!


----------



## Hansotek

rockytopwiz said:


> Your comments on the crimson we're what piqued my interest in the lp.  All input is appreciated, I'm so indecisive.  The research is part of the journey.  Thank you!



Yeah, Crimson had this sort of interesting penchant for "super synergies" with certain headphones: Sennheiser HD800, Hifiman HE1000 and HE500, Focal Utopia, and Beyerdynamic T1 always sounded disproportionately good out of it. It's not that those headphones sounded bad with other amps (other than the T1, which is terrible), or that the Crimson sounded bad with other headphones, but when those headphones and that amp came together it was like 1+1= HOLY $#&%!


----------



## MattTCG

rockytopwiz said:


> Too many choices .  I'm looking at upgrading to either the ether 2 or getting the LP for my he1000.  Since you have now heard both, which would you choose if you could only have one?
> 
> Same question to you @MattTCG



If you are running the he1000 off the Emotiva amp, I don't know anything about that amp. Do you like the pairing?


----------



## rockytopwiz (Nov 9, 2018)

Hansotek said:


> Yeah, Crimson had this sort of interesting penchant for "super synergies" with certain headphones: Sennheiser HD800, Hifiman HE1000 and HE500, Focal Utopia, and Beyerdynamic T1 always sounded disproportionately good out of it. It's not that those headphones sounded bad with other amps (other than the T1, which is terrible), or that the Crimson sounded bad with other headphones, but when those headphones and that amp came together it was like 1+1= HOLY $#&%!


I like the sounds of that, if you remember, did it happen to bring the mids more forward?



MattTCG said:


> If you are running the he1000 off the Emotiva amp, I don't know anything about that amp. Do you like the pairing?


I do, I play it off my parasound zdac v2 w a ti amp chip in it as well but find they need more power with it.  The a100 gives them plenty of power.  The parasound produces a darker sound and the a100 is brighter but has a bit of a glare with some hps, but it really opens things up on the top end.  The glare isn't noticeable with the he1000 and the sound is very impressive, just not sure if I can get more out of them.

  I also had a Sennheiser hdva600 but wasnt all that impressed with it, that was the only amp over $300 I've owned and I didn't find it that much better than the cheaper options I've got.  

Ive never tried tubes, and this one looks promising.  However, due to past experience I've been in the camp of amps not mattering quite as much as long as it is a good pairing with the headphone.  For example when I had the hd800 I was so impressed with the sound coming from the zdac that I sold the hdva.  Don't get me wrong the hdva sounded better but not tremendously so because the z dac was already a good match.


----------



## Hansotek

rockytopwiz said:


> I like the sounds of that, if you remember, did it happen to bring the mids more forward?
> 
> 
> I do, I play it off my parasound zdac v2 w a ti amp chip in it but find they need more power.  The a100 gives them plenty of power, just not sure if I can get more out of the he1000.  Wasn't all that impressed with the Sennheiser hdva 600 I had, that was the only other expensive amp I've owned and I didn't find it that much better than the cheaper options I've got.  Never tried tubes, and this one looks promising.  However, due to past experience I've been in the camp of amps not mattering quite as much as long as it is a good pairing with the headphone.



I haven’t heard what your listening on, but I would imagine so, if you are finding your mids recessed. Balance was exceptional.

I later rolled out the stock tube for a ‘75 Reflektor 6N23P, which made the amp warmer and more mid-forward (and really better in every way over the stock Gold Lion).


----------



## Ludachris

I love my liquid platinum soo smooth mids paired up with my elex.


----------



## hemtmaker

With Black Friday coming up, any chance the LP will be discounted at Monoprice? They are quite new though.....


----------



## hemtmaker

Do you guys reckon the LP has enough juice to power the HE6?


----------



## MattTCG

hemtmaker said:


> Do you guys reckon the LP has enough juice to power the HE6?



Good question. Normally, I'd say no chance and that still may be the right answer. But then there was a guy saying the LP could bring the Abyss to an amazing level. So...


----------



## KG Jag

hemtmaker said:


> Do you guys reckon the LP has enough juice to power the HE6?



Haven't tried it yet, but would expect so--in balanced mode only.

My little (original) Liquid Carbons do a good job with the HE-6, although a bit more power is needed to be optimal.


----------



## BearlyPizza

hemtmaker said:


> With Black Friday coming up, any chance the LP will be discounted at Monoprice? They are quite new though.....



Hmm I have a feeling it won't go on sale for black friday. The Spark an a number of other stuff was excluded from the promotion for halloween.


----------



## hemtmaker

MattTCG said:


> Good question. Normally, I'd say no chance and that still may be the right answer. But then there was a guy saying the LP could bring the Abyss to an amazing level. So...





KG Jag said:


> Haven't tried it yet, but would expect so--in balanced mode only.
> 
> My little (original) Liquid Carbons do a good job with the HE-6, although a bit more power is needed to be optimal.



Cheers. I dun even have a main headphone these days but I am seriously considering getting a LP


----------



## tommyk

I received the amp on Tuesday. I am burning in now with the intent of comparing to Woo Audio WA7 Fireflies and Massdrop CTH + SDAC using Focal Utopia and Audeze LCD-X.

A question to Mr. Cavalli: if I want to get the best of this amp, what would bring the biggest improvement (in which order):
A. Replace stock tubes
B. Replace single-ended cable with balanced one
C. Upgrade to linear power supply (36V/1.5A is hard to come by!)

Thank you.


----------



## MattTCG

tommyk said:


> I received the amp on Tuesday. I am burning in now with the intent of comparing to Woo Audio WA7 Fireflies and Massdrop CTH + SDAC using Focal Utopia and Audeze LCD-X.
> 
> A question to Mr. Cavalli: if I want to get the best of this amp, what would bring the biggest improvement (in which order):
> A. Replace stock tubes
> ...



I'll step out on a limb here and say the balanced cable is the easy choice  This amps topology was designed to perform best using thr balanced output


----------



## Ludachris

tommyk said:


> I received the amp on Tuesday. I am burning in now with the intent of comparing to Woo Audio WA7 Fireflies and Massdrop CTH + SDAC using Focal Utopia and Audeze LCD-X.
> 
> A question to Mr. Cavalli: if I want to get the best of this amp, what would bring the biggest improvement (in which order):
> A. Replace stock tubes
> ...


Hello tommy does your liquid platinum run warm after 15mins of use? My tubes get warm first then the whole amp from top to bottom get warm when im using unblanaced or balance cables for music sessions. I was wondering this is normal because the first online review claim that the amp runs cool then warm after several hours. If this isnt normal the  I would have to contact monoprice. Please let me know when you get the chance. Thanks.


----------



## runeight (Nov 9, 2018)

tommyk said:


> I received the amp on Tuesday. I am burning in now with the intent of comparing to Woo Audio WA7 Fireflies and Massdrop CTH + SDAC using Focal Utopia and Audeze LCD-X.
> 
> A question to Mr. Cavalli: if I want to get the best of this amp, what would bring the biggest improvement (in which order):
> A. Replace stock tubes
> ...



Agree with MattTCG. Balanced cable will easily give most benefit bc then you are using the full capability of the amp.


----------



## snip3r77

Ludachris said:


> Hello tommy does your liquid platinum run warm after 15mins of use? My tubes get warm first then the whole amp from top to bottom get warm when im using unblanaced or balance cables for music sessions. I was wondering this is normal because the first online review claim that the amp runs cool then warm after several hours. If this isnt normal the  I would have to contact monoprice. Please let me know when you get the chance. Thanks.



First time tube amp user?


----------



## runeight

Ludachris said:


> Hello tommy does your liquid platinum run warm after 15mins of use? My tubes get warm first then the whole amp from top to bottom get warm when im using unblanaced or balance cables for music sessions. I was wondering this is normal because the first online review claim that the amp runs cool then warm after several hours. If this isnt normal the  I would have to contact monoprice. Please let me know when you get the chance. Thanks.



It is normal.


----------



## DRHamp

Ludachris said:


> Hello tommy does your liquid platinum run warm after 15mins of use? My tubes get warm first then the whole amp from top to bottom get warm when im using unblanaced or balance cables for music sessions. I was wondering this is normal because the first online review claim that the amp runs cool then warm after several hours.



After mine has been on for about an hour, the top surface temperature is 105 to 110 degrees F, and the front and side panels are 100 to 103 degrees F.   I believe that's normal.


----------



## Ludachris

snip3r77 said:


> First time tube amp user?


Yup this is my first tube amp and hybrid.


----------



## Ludachris

DRHamp said:


> After mine has been on for about an hour, the top surface temperature is 105 to 110 degrees F, and the front and side panels are 100 to 103 degrees F.   I believe that's normal.


Does it warm up after 15mins or stays cool for first hour?


----------



## Ludachris

runeight said:


> It is normal.


Thank you


----------



## DRHamp

Ludachris said:


> Does it warm up after 15mins or stays cool for first hour?



It starts warming up immediately and takes about an hour to reach those temps.


----------



## atomicbob

Liquid Platinum surface temperatures - hard data: 40 ± 4 °C
after 2 hours power on time.

Left side



 

Top surface


 

Right side


 

EH6922 plate temp


 

Front surface


 

Liquid Crimson top surface for comparison


 

Lyr3 top surface for comparison


 

These temperatures are normal and not cause for concern. 
Some 2A3 amps achieve much higher temperatures. 
Some tube plate temperatures can rise to 150 °C or more.


----------



## Liu Junyuan (Nov 10, 2018)

@MattTCG Could you please compare the LP to the Mjolnir 2, just so I can have a point of reference? They are similar in price, both hybrids, and both benefit from balanced output, thus warranting a comparison that I think many would appreciate, including me.


----------



## alphanumerix1

atomicbob said:


> Liquid Platinum surface temperatures - hard data: 40 ± 4 °C
> after 2 hours power on time.
> 
> Left side
> ...



Liquid plat and liquid crimson comparison incoming?


----------



## MattTCG

Liu Junyuan said:


> @MattTCG Could you please compare the LP to the Mjolnir 2, just so I can have a point of reference? They are similar in price, both hybrids, and both benefit from balanced output, thus warranting a comparison that I think many would appreciate, including me.



The hallmark of the mjo2 is macrodynamics. The dynamics with the mjo 2 are some of the best I've heard. The amp has reasonably good tone when NOS tubes are included. It also offers abundant power/driving capacity. But the sound stage has somewhat of a compressed aspect creating a wall of sound of sorts. And the mjo 2 is only average at producing the delicacy of fine details that I crave when I listen to music. Overall, I find the mjo 2 very good with Orthos but mostly average with dynamic driver based headphones. 

The Liquid Platinum is able to match the mjo 2 on it's ability to drive headphone with authority and exceeds with further control. Unfortunately, the LP has a fixed gain which I find somewhat too strong and is one of it's real weak points. This can be overcome with a pre-amp with volume control (ie Saga or Freya). Tone is an area where LP is exceptional. Whereas the tone of the mjo 2 can be average to good, the LP can offer tone that is downright captivating...drawing you into the music, letting it effect you on a different level. The staging on the LP is simply better. And not just width and depth. Depth cues are easily detected and instruments are able to breath in their own space. With the mjo 2, the stage can sometimes sound like instruments and voices are blobbed together. LP does room acoustic well also. Notes trail off convincingly giving the listener a physical image of the stage and what it might be like to be there during the performance. LP is able to drive both dynamic and Othos both with aplomb, which makes for a great all rounder of an amp. The SE output of the LP is somewhat gimped therefore if you want to hear the best of this amp you'll need to buy a balanced cable or at least reterminate your current cable. 

The mjo 2 gets quite hot as does the the LP. The stock tubes that ship with the LP are better than those that are included with the mjo 2 but not by a large margin. Both amps benefit from tube rolling where NOS variants can get very expensive but also rewarding. Features and options are fairly similar as is the price.


----------



## Phantaminum (Nov 10, 2018)

greenkiwi said:


> @runeight I had some strange behavior with the protection kicking in.  On Friday, I had it kick in repeatedly.  It kicked in after approximately 45m of listening, and then it happened 3-4 more times.   After I noticed it happened, I turned everything off for a while and and still happened.
> 
> Then today, I decided that I'd try it out and it hasn't had any issues all day.  Same DAC and same headphones.  (LHLabs Geek Pulse Infinity balanced out, Ether C headphones balanced)
> 
> ...



I’m now running into this issue. Really strange as there’s no rhyme or reason. I have the loaner Ananda hooked up to the LP and this will happen 30 minutes into it turning on the amp or 4 hours after. At times the amp turns on but doesn’t seem to give power to the tubes then 6-7 minutes later you can see the glow of the EH tubes while the power light finally turns red to white. I’m around 30 hours of break in and hope this will work it’s way out. I could of been done with burn in today but I kept finding it turned off when I got home from work.


----------



## runeight (Nov 10, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> Is anyone experiencing issues with the
> 
> 
> I’m now running into this issue. Really strange as there’s no rhyme or reason. I have the loaner Ananda hooked up to the LP and this will happen 30 minutes into it turning on the amp or 4 hours after. At times the amp turns on but doesn’t seem to give power to the tubes then 6-7 minutes later you can see the glow of the EH tubes while the power light finally turns red to white. I’m around 30 hours of break in and hope this will work it’s way out. I could of been done with burn in today but I kept finding it turned off when I got home from work.



There is a slow start sequence. Should last about 1 min if there is no audio in. The heaters have a slow warmup, about 10s. Pls check these times.

Pls describe your rig, esp the burn in rig and what the vol pot setting, etc. are. Thx.


----------



## llcook51

The LP with the HEKv2 is sublime. Exceptionally open with deep fast bass. The highs are smooth and airy.


----------



## talan7

My Monolith by Monoprice Portable Headphone Amplifier and DAC with THX AAA Technology has arrived and I am listening to it now out my X7 gen II with my IMR R1’s. Holy cow this thing sounds awesome. I paid less than 3 hundred for this?!!! I have iDSD black label, Vorzuge Vorzamp Duo And Duo II, fiio Q5, FX Audio fireye HDB and others. This amp is at the top of the pile. The air! The clarity. I haven’t even played with the eq. Dabbled with sensaround just a bit. R1 doesn’t need it. It might be just for full size headphones, I don’t know.


----------



## i20bot

talan7 said:


> My Monolith by Monoprice Portable Headphone Amplifier and DAC with THX AAA Technology has arrived and I am listening to it now out my X7 gen II with my IMR R1’s. Holy cow this thing sounds awesome. I paid less than 3 hundred for this?!!! I have iDSD black label, Vorzuge Vorzamp Duo And Duo II, fiio Q5, FX Audio fireye HDB and others. This amp is at the top of the pile. The air! The clarity. I haven’t even played with the eq. Dabbled with sensaround just a bit. R1 doesn’t need it. It might be just for full size headphones, I don’t know.


Makes me curious about the desktop version.  Although I dunno why they didn't go with XLR outs instead of ins.  That has me doing a double take on it.


----------



## Phantaminum

.


runeight said:


> There is a slow start sequence. Should last about 1 min if there is no audio in. The heaters have a slow warmup, about 10s. Pls check these times.
> 
> Pls describe your rig, esp the burn in rig and what the vol pot setting, etc. are. Thx.



I think I the issue may have worked itself out Doc. Left it turned off for half a day, then unplugged everything, and reconnected the cables back in. It’s been running it non-stop since yesterday without finding it turned off and pretty much all day today. I’ll keep and eye on it but if it happens again i’ll give you the start up times of the tubes.

Rig: PC —> USB —> Schiit Eitr —> Blue Jeans coaxial SPDIF —> Schiit Gungnir MB —> XLR —> LP —> Ananda

Volume pot is turned all the way to the left when powered on.


----------



## runeight

Phantaminum said:


> .
> 
> 
> I think I the issue may have worked itself out Doc. Left it turned off for half a day, then unplugged everything, and reconnected the cables back in. It’s been running it non-stop since yesterday without finding it turned off and pretty much all day today. I’ll keep and eye on it but if it happens again i’ll give you the start up times of the tubes.
> ...



Great. Are you running SE or Bal out?


----------



## runeight

Phantaminum said:


> .
> 
> 
> I think I the issue may have worked itself out Doc. Left it turned off for half a day, then unplugged everything, and reconnected the cables back in. It’s been running it non-stop since yesterday without finding it turned off and pretty much all day today. I’ll keep and eye on it but if it happens again i’ll give you the start up times of the tubes.
> ...



Oh. What is full turn on time when vol pot it down?


----------



## Phantaminum (Nov 11, 2018)

runeight said:


> Oh. What is full turn on time when vol pot it down?



Around 10 seconds now.

Not sure what was causing the issue but at times the tubes did not look like they were receiving power, I'd leave it going while I was studying, forget that I had it going then all of a sudden I'd get audio. This would at minimum be a good 2 - 3 minutes.

Other-times I'd reseat the tubes after leaving the amp off, turn it back on, then it would give me the glow I normally associate with the tubes powering on.

I'll chalk it up with something in my chain causing the issue. I changed where the power cable was plugged into the power strip and reconnected everything. Haven't had an issue since.

Thanks for getting back to me Dr. Cavalli.

Edit: Running balanced XLR to the amp but both SE and Balanced out. Had the issue on both.


----------



## abvolt

I've been waiting for this amp to be released just noticed it on monoprice, I'll be reading this forums..


----------



## talan7

i20bot said:


> Makes me curious about the desktop version.  Although I dunno why they didn't go with XLR outs instead of ins.  That has me doing a double take on it.



If the portable amp sounds this good single ended, imagine it balanced. I stayed up till 2 am the other morning just listening to music.


----------



## llcook51

talan7 said:


> If the portable amp sounds this good single ended, imagine it balanced. I stayed up till 2 am the other morning just listening to music.


Good for your ears: bad for your health.


----------



## UsoppNoKami (Nov 14, 2018)

Hello everyone, my first post here on Head-Fi 

Checking in on this thread to compare notes along our journey with the Liquid Platinum.

Currently running in the LP with the stock EH 6922s, I have new production Genelex Gold Lions and matched NOS Amperex SQs on the way, so nothing itchy fingers can do at the moment.

I have also ordered a customised LPS that should make it here to Malaysia next month, will be interesting to see if I can hear any improvement.

Thanks @runeight for a wonderful amp design, Day 1 and the LP sounds better than a fully run in, Burson SS V6 Classic op-amp upgraded, Matrix HPA-3B balanced amp.  DAC is a dual-mono AKM4497 XiangSheng DAC-05B with upgraded Burson SS V6 Vivid OpAmps.

Can't wait for burn in to finish, I am going to hook this up to my other sound stack - AudioGD R2R-R1 -> ACSS cable -> AudioGD NFB1-AMP  - and do some good A/B against the NFB1-AMP.

Will also have a Cayin HA-1A mk2 next month to compare it against, fun times ahead 

Headphones that I will be listening to on the LP: Focal Elex + Audeze LCD2C on Norne Audio Silvergarde S3 XLR, MDxSennheiser HD6xx on Audeze OCC XLR cable (with matching OCC copper adaptor), Hifiman HE-560v2 on Invictus Cable XLR, Audioquest NightOwl Carbon on 1/4" SE.


----------



## tommyk

@runeight : I have some 6N1P-EV tubes which supposedly are similar to 6N23P. Is it safe to put them in to try? I understand they might not be optimal but I would like to know if it safe for the amp. Would hate to fry the brand new toy...


----------



## Allanmarcus

UsoppNoKami said:


> Hello everyone, my first post here on Head-Fi
> 
> Checking in on this thread to compare notes along our journey with the Liquid Platinum.
> 
> ...


Wow, for the money you are spending, you could get a Cayin HA-300 and be done!


----------



## LCMusicLover

Allanmarcus said:


> Wow, for the money you are spending, you could get a Cayin HA-300 and be done!


Except for the tube-rolling expense for that amp


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Haha what he said.. I have spent a few hours with one at the dealer here in Malaysia, it's nice, but rolling 300B tubes isn't for the faint of heart  Also, I didn't buy all of this at once so a HA-300 wasn't a serious consideration. Maybe one day ...


----------



## runeight

tommyk said:


> @runeight : I have some 6N1P-EV tubes which supposedly are similar to 6N23P. Is it safe to put them in to try? I understand they might not be optimal but I would like to know if it safe for the amp. Would hate to fry the brand new toy...



I can't really recommend one way or another. My opinion is that 6n1p is not a sub for 6922. Others who have rolled them in other amps may disagree.


----------



## dBel84

For those who have not seen atomicbob's measurements, they near mimic those of the Crimson and this is what he had to say about the stock power brick.

"Residual noise is non-existent, with provided SMPS.  All of the measurements represent engineering excellence.
Well done Dr. Cavalli!" .... [Atomicbob] 


This amp is set to make a mark in the history of affordable high-end.. dB


----------



## snip3r77

dBel84 said:


> For those who have not seen atomicbob's measurements, they near mimic those of the Crimson and this is what he had to say about the stock power brick.
> 
> "Residual noise is non-existent, with provided SMPS.  All of the measurements represent engineering excellence.
> Well done Dr. Cavalli!" .... [Atomicbob]
> ...


I was just wondering if no noise is possible with tubes , to me it only exists in SS realm


----------



## BearlyPizza

For those worried about temps: 
Initially, my LP was pretty hot in temps just about everywhere on the case. Fortunately, it simmered down on a scale of 1/10  (1 being not hot, 10 too hot to touch) where it initially felt like a near 8. But since receiving it on the 2nd, i've been running it nonstop and it lowered down to about a 5- 5.5 on the scale. Though room temps have been varying of course, so no precise measurements. 



In the meantime, i'm struggling with the issue of the gain being too hot with my current headphones with the SE out (Impedance: 25 ohms Sensitivity: 99dBSPL / mW) so I have to lower my system and player volume to compensate (something i'd rather not do). I'm planning on getting a ZMF Aeolus soon (Impedance: 300 ohms Sensitivity 99dB/ mW) hopefully I can have manageable pot clearance with that but I feel like i'm treading on a fine line of channel imbalance and being too loud. 



As for the amp itself, it sounds absolutely wonderful to my ears. I only have a Garage1217 Polaris for comparison and i'm rather bad at describing what i'm hearing into audiophile terms, but i'll give my impressions with my Audioquest Nighthawk Carbon (Stock carbon pads):  *I should note that i'm rather sensitive to treble due to an injury to my ears, so I tend to veer towards less treble hot gear*

-Coming from the Polaris, I noticed an immediate difference in separation for instruments, as well as a larger soundstage. Though i'm not sure if I liked it better or not since the vocals seemed a little more distant. I liked the intimacy of the Polaris, but at the same time, it was a bit easier to isolate instruments with the LP. 

-Instruments come off as more refined with the LP and feel more individual than slightly clashing with each other. 

-The Polaris does come off as a little "creamier" than the LP in that there's this thin layer of umami smoothness covering the sound (Tubey?). Clarity takes a small hit for Polaris for that smoothness, but it's pleasing in its own way. 

-Bass impact was actually slightly higher with the Polaris than the LP. (10-15% increase?) But at the same time, it's more defined with the LP.  

-Details: Better on the LP. A good 20% i'd say. 

-I should mention that there's a noticeable bite at the end of guitar strokes with the Polaris that is less noticeable on the LP. You could say the LP is more "delicate" with the strokes. It's beautiful in its own way though.

If I had to describe the two, the Polaris stands out more like a Takoyaki stall. Delicious, slightly punchy with umami, Crispy and warm comfort food. While the LP is more like a Sushi Restaurant where you see more refinement in the way the fish is cut, how the rice was cooked, the smoothness in the rolling, the delicate accents to the dish.  Both comforting in their own ways, but also different in how they present themselves. 

Oddly, i've been finding myself falling asleep more with the LP with how seductive it is. That's a good thing though haha.


----------



## llcook51

My ears agree: Well done Dr. Cavalli!"


----------



## tommyk

dBel84 said:


> For those who have not seen atomicbob's measurements, they near mimic those of the Crimson and this is what he had to say about the stock power brick.
> 
> "Residual noise is non-existent, with provided SMPS.  All of the measurements represent engineering excellence.
> Well done Dr. Cavalli!" .... [Atomicbob]
> ...



The measurements results further confirm what Mr. Cavalli said: hook up your headphones via a balanced cable but linear power supply upgrade will not bring much improvement.


----------



## jsmiller58

dBel84 said:


> For those who have not seen atomicbob's measurements, they near mimic those of the Crimson and this is what he had to say about the stock power brick.
> 
> "Residual noise is non-existent, with provided SMPS.  All of the measurements represent engineering excellence.
> Well done Dr. Cavalli!" .... [Atomicbob]
> ...


Where can we find Atomicbob's measurements?


----------



## alphanumerix1

TFW you have been told the amp would perform better with an LPS but actually isn't the case?

lol RIP


----------



## alphanumerix1

*Highlights*
First, well done Dr. Cavalli! This is an excellent addition to the family.
Square wave response is very near that of the Liquid Crimson, with only a very slight ring on rising and falling edges. Bandwidth is quite wide: DC to > 670 KHz

The Liquid Platinum provides excellent performance Single Ended in and TRS out, but is much improved SE in and 4-pin 4XF out. If contemplating this amplifier, balanced headphone cables will prove a wise choice. However, this amp is optimized for balanced use. Bal in and 4XF out yields the highest performence LP has to offer.

Liquid Crimson still has the edge in a few areas such as transient response, but is rare, pretty much unobtainium and Single Ended operation only. Liquid Platinum is mostly at parity with Liquid Crimson running SE, and has the advantage of availablity. Running balanced input and output is measures nearly a dual mono system. Crosstalk is exceptionally low. Residual noise is lowest with fully balanced operation.

The supplied SMPS works well having low noise in the audio band. Liquid Platinum audio measurements did not demonstrate significant difference between SMPS, SMPS+NoiseNuke and BK1623A LPS. Power supply spectrum measurements did show lower noise for SMPS+NoiseNuke and LPS over the SMPSprovided.


----------



## Hansotek

alphanumerix1 said:


> TFW you have been told the amp would perform better with an LPS but actually isn't the case?
> 
> lol RIP



In my defense, since I brought it up initially, I did say that I thought the amp sounded good on it’s own and you guys were blowing the LPS talk out of proportion.

I speculated that it may have some untapped potential in some areas that typically improve with a linear supply, ie bass impact, etc. It was worth consideration/discussion... if I thought it was going to dominate the discussion the way it did, I would have thought twice about saying it. Ultimately though, I still feel that it was a valid discussion point given the notable difference in power supplies between the Crimson and the Platinum.


----------



## alphanumerix1

Hansotek said:


> In my defense, since I brought it up initially, I did say that I thought the amp sounded good on it’s own and you guys were blowing the LPS talk out of proportion.
> 
> I speculated that it may have some untapped potential in some areas that typically improve with a linear supply, ie bass impact, etc. It was worth consideration/discussion... if I thought it was going to dominate the discussion the way it did, I would have thought twice about saying it. Ultimately though, I still feel that it was a valid discussion point given the notable difference in power supplies between the Crimson and the Platinum.



Wasn't a dig at you mate and yes it was more the ensuing conversion about the whole LPS talk it did blow out abit. Its good to know if performs very well in stock form.


----------



## Hansotek

alphanumerix1 said:


> Wasn't a dig at you mate and yes it was more the ensuing conversion about the whole LPS talk it did blow out abit. Its good to know if performs very well in stock form.



Yeah, and major kudos to @atomicbob for taking the time and effort to do all those measurements.


----------



## Allanmarcus

runeight said:


> Input doesn't matter. The amp should perform the same regardless of Bal or RCA ins. The RCA in has a built-in splitter so that the lower level SE signal is doubled to be more consistent with the Bal input. I have a DAC where the Bal out outputs twice the amplitude of SE. When using the Carbon (with a similar arrangement) I can live swap from one input to the other and I, honestly, can't even tell that the switch has occurred.





alphanumerix1 said:


> Bal in and 4XF out yields the highest performence LP has to offer



Balanced in doesn't matter. See above.


----------



## runeight

Allanmarcus said:


> Balanced in doesn't matter. See above.



I should modify my reply above bc it wasn't detailed enough. In terms of output power and most other performance measures, if you are using bal out, the input choice won't matter that much. And you may not even hear differences if the sources are equal. There are slight differences that can be measured. My experience with the Carbons is that these slight differences are not possible to hear with any equipment that I have in hand.


----------



## koven

Sorry if I missed it but what's the consensus on LPS? Is stock sufficient or is there a good aftermarket one to get?


----------



## Hansotek

koven said:


> Sorry if I missed it but what's the consensus on LPS? Is stock sufficient or is there a good aftermarket one to get?



Stock is sufficient and always has been. There MAY be some subjective improvements possible beyond what measurements have shown: impact, ease of presentation, etc. but that is and always has been completely speculative. Measurements have not shown obvious improvements like those with the MCTH. I have not seen any comparisons one way or another, so there is no “consensus” backed by multiple listening impressions.... I would bet at some point somebody will try it, I will probably try it myself once I can set aside a few bucks and get my hands on a Platinum again. Based on Bob’s measurements, I’m expecting any improvements will be small to moderate. It’s just a conversation that got really carried away really quickly.


----------



## jmpsmash (Nov 18, 2018)

snip3r77 said:


> I was just wondering if no noise is possible with tubes , to me it only exists in SS realm



Somehow the LP is noise free. I plugged in my andromeda which is like a noise magnet and I heard no noise coming out of it. It's rather spectacular.

Can't say the same about the gain though. With high sensitivity and low impedance it is just a tad on the loud side once the pot is turned past the initial nonlinear portion. To be fair the LP isn't designed for sensitive IEMs


----------



## Rayzilla

Has anyone in Asia, specifically Hong Kong order from Monoprice before and have any idea how much shipping might be for one of these? I tried checking via their website but it's not working out for me.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Rayzilla said:


> Has anyone in Asia, specifically Hong Kong order from Monoprice before and have any idea how much shipping might be for one of these? I tried checking via their website but it's not working out for me.



Not HK, but it cost me $155 to Malaysia via DHL. Local customs duties, sales tax and handling charges added another $200. Worth every penny


----------



## greenkiwi

jmpsmash said:


> Somehow the LP is noise free. I plugged in my andromeda which is like a noise magnet and I heard no noise coming out of it. It's rather spectacular.
> 
> Can't say the same about the gain though. With high sensitivity and low impedance it is just a tad on the loud side once the pot is turned past the initial nonlinear portion. To be fair the LP isn't designed for sensitive IEMs



I've been using the digital volume control on my DAC. Shifting the volume down in multiples of -3dB to get the volume pot into a manageable range.


----------



## Hansotek

jmpsmash said:


> Somehow the LP is noise free. I plugged in my andromeda which is like a noise magnet and I heard no noise coming out of it. It's rather spectacular.
> 
> Can't say the same about the gain though. With high sensitivity and low impedance it is just a tad on the loud side once the pot is turned past the initial nonlinear portion. To be fair the LP isn't designed for sensitive IEMs



I tried this as well. The iFi iEMatch will give you a very useable volume range on the LP with the Andromeda. They’re like $50 on Amazon, so if you don’t like it you can always send it back, but IME, they make the Andromeda work better with everything and really open up amping options when you can use stuff like the LP.


----------



## llcook51

Hansotek said:


> I tried this as well. The iFi iEMatch will give you a very useable volume range on the LP with the Andromeda. They’re like $50 on Amazon, so if you don’t like it you can always send it back, but IME, they make the Andromeda work better with everything and really open up amping options when you can use stuff like the LP.


_The Sound of Surprise: Live at The Side Door,_ the new album by Mike Casey is a good solid jazz album to try out your new LP. Excellent highs on sax and deep lows on string bass. Drums add the snap.


----------



## PaganDL

One day people, one day !

Hope everyone has a great day !


----------



## llcook51

Gold Lions open up the LP. Clarity throughout the full range is improved.


----------



## hemtmaker

llcook51 said:


> Gold Lions open up the LP. Clarity throughout the full range is improved.


Which gold lions tubes do you mean? How much are they?


----------



## runeight

hemtmaker said:


> Which gold lions tubes do you mean? How much are they?



Made by Genalex. I like them myself quite a bit. They are $46 at tube depot. Don't know about other places.

But, if you don't want to spend big bucks on NOS 6922s, these might suit you pretty well.


----------



## hemtmaker

runeight said:


> Made by Genalex. I like them myself quite a bit. They are $46 at tube depot. Don't know about other places.
> 
> But, if you don't want to spend big bucks on NOS 6922s, these might suit you pretty well.


Thanks Alex, I will give them a go. What does cryo version mean btw?

New Match 1 pair NEW Genalex Gold Lion E88CC Tubes ECC88 6922 6DJ8 Cryo version https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com.au/ulk/itm/253947544969


----------



## runeight

hemtmaker said:


> Thanks Alex, I will give them a go. What does cryo version mean btw?
> 
> New Match 1 pair NEW Genalex Gold Lion E88CC Tubes ECC88 6922 6DJ8 Cryo version https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com.au/ulk/itm/253947544969



Usually it means they are dropped in liquid nitrogen for some period of time. The assertion is that the crystaline structure of the materials (mostly metals) in the tube are better structured leading to longer life and better performance. Makes me think I should dip myself in liquid nitrogen.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

I ordered the 6922 Gold Lions from Tube Depot a couple of weeks back to give it a go, but they were on backorder.  I've tried the 12au7 Gold Lions in my Cayin HA-1Amk2, they are pretty good, affordable too since no NOS tax.  Having said that, I got bored waiting for the genelex pair for my LP to come back in stock so I picked up a pair of NOS Philips SQs that should be here tomorrow.  Hope they will be decent, fingers crossed.


----------



## hemtmaker

runeight said:


> Usually it means they are dropped in liquid nitrogen for some period of time. The assertion is that the crystaline structure of the materials (mostly metals) in the tube are better structured leading to longer life and better performance. Makes me think I should dip myself in liquid nitrogen.


Thanks for the reply. I thought they will be more brittle after being dipped in liquid nitrogen LoL


----------



## PaganDL

hemtmaker said:


> Thanks for the reply. I thought they will be more brittle after being dipped in liquid nitrogen LoL



@hemtmaker,

A lot of tools, electronic devices, parts, etc also use Liquid Nitrogen process, depending on what the thing is, it will generally provide increased durability, conductivity for certain materials, etc
Think of it as a form of tempering.

Also time an object is immersed or exposed to LN all depends so no, it wouldn't be brittle.

Hope you have a great day !


----------



## hemtmaker

PaganDL said:


> @hemtmaker,
> 
> A lot of tools, electronic devices, parts, etc also use Liquid Nitrogen process, depending on what the thing is, it will generally provide increased durability, conductivity for certain materials, etc
> Think of it as a form of tempering.
> ...


Cheers for that


----------



## tommyk (Nov 20, 2018)

You guys are hell-bent on ruining me. I ordered balanced XLR cable for Utopias and now Gold Lion tube upgrades... What next? LPS? No way!


----------



## hemtmaker

tommyk said:


> You guys are hell-bent on ruining me. I ordered balanced XLR cable for Utopias and now Gold Lion tube upgrades... What next? LPS? No way!


I feel you mate. Once you buy anything top of the line gear (ie utopia), upgrading the rest of you chain is a matter of when.......


----------



## DRHamp (Nov 20, 2018)

I have a basic question - no matter what headphones I use (13ohm Aeon Flows, or 300 ohm HD800S), advancing the volume knob past the 9 o:clock position is just too loud for me.  So, my question is: would it be better/or not - putting a passive preamp between my DAC(Denafrips Ares) and the LP to give me more play with the LP volume knob.
I've considered the iFi IEmatch, but I believe that is only for se output(I could be wrong about that)


----------



## JamesCanada

has anyone had any experience pairing this bad boy with the RME ADI Dac 2?
I'm wondering if this would be a worthy ally for my trusty DAC.
I rock 800S, Teaks and 6XX
Thanks


----------



## LCMusicLover

DRHamp said:


> I have a basic question - no matter what headphones I use (13ohm Aeon Flows, or 300 ohm HD800S), advancing the volume knob past the 9 o:clock position is just too loud for me.  So, my question is: would it be better/or not - putting a passive preamp between my DAC(Denafrips Ares) and the LP to give me more play with the LP volume knob.
> I've considered the iFi IEmatch, but I believe that is only for se output(I could be wrong about that)


Actually, there was a bit of back-and-forth about this (too much gain) somewhere else  

After the OP mentioned that the problem was resolved, I PM'd to ask what he did, and the answer was 'Preamp'.


----------



## Mudshark

Hi, I am interested in the LP and am wondering if it is likely to be a meaningful upgrade from my current amp (Schiit Jotunheim), with which I am generally very happy. 

My primary cans are: Focal Clear (balanced), Audeze LCD-X (single-ended), and Audeze LCD-2F (single-ended).  I also use my Denon AH-D2000 (single-ended) and Audio-Technica  ATH-W3000ANV (single-ended) occasionally.

Any thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks very much and happy holidays to all!


----------



## llcook51

runeight said:


> Made by Genalex. I like them myself quite a bit. They are $46 at tube depot. Don't know about other places.
> 
> But, if you don't want to spend big bucks on NOS 6922s, these might suit you pretty well.


I just got the Genalex Gold Lions yesterday. Even without burn-in, you hear an improvement over the standard tubes that come with the LP. I previously used the Gold Lions in the Lyr 2, also.


----------



## greenkiwi

Mudshark said:


> Hi, I am interested in the LP and am wondering if it is likely to be a meaningful upgrade from my current amp (Schiit Jotunheim), with which I am generally very happy.



I haven't heard both, but I think that once you have made it into this space, it's more about whether or not you enjoy the sound rather than a "step up".  These amps are all really good and have have slightly different sonic characteristics that stop being simply better/worse.


----------



## jmpsmash

llcook51 said:


> I just got the Genalex Gold Lions yesterday. Even without burn-in, you hear an improvement over the standard tubes that come with the LP. I previously used the Gold Lions in the Lyr 2, also.



can you describe the sound of the Gold Lions 6922? warm? bass? heavy? clarity? etc. thanks!


----------



## spyder1

Mudshark said:


> My primary cans are: Focal Clear (balanced), Audeze LCD-X (single-ended), and Audeze LCD-2F (single-ended). I also use my Denon AH-D2000 (single-ended) and Audio-Technica ATH-W3000ANV (single-ended) occasionally.



Purchasing a balanced headphone cable for your Audeze  planer magnetic headphones will have a huge impact in SQ and listening pleasure.


----------



## llcook51

jmpsmash said:


> can you describe the sound of the Gold Lions 6922? warm? bass? heavy? clarity? etc. thanks!


Extension in both directions is improved. There is better clarity in the highs and more definition in the lows.


----------



## llcook51 (Nov 20, 2018)

greenkiwi said:


> I haven't heard both, but I think that once you have made it into this space, it's more about whether or not you enjoy the sound rather than a "step up".  These amps are all really good and have have slightly different sonic characteristics that stop being simply better/worse.


I moved up from the Jotunheim to the LP. I was also very happy with the Jotunheim. The LP has a smoother presentation with extra extension in both the highs and lows. I just changed to the Genalex Gold Lions tubes for even more exceptional performance.


----------



## DRHamp

Anyone know the input impedence of this amp, I couldn't find it in the Monoprice specs (or maybe I don't know how to read them)


----------



## atomicbob

DRHamp said:


> Anyone know the input impedence of this amp, I couldn't find it in the Monoprice specs (or maybe I don't know how to read them)


DC input resistance measures
  97K  Bal input
172K  SE input

on my Liquid Platinum


----------



## atomicbob

DRHamp said:


> I have a basic question - no matter what headphones I use (13ohm Aeon Flows, or 300 ohm HD800S), advancing the volume knob past the 9 o:clock position is just too loud for me.  So, my question is: would it be better/or not - putting a passive preamp between my DAC(Denafrips Ares) and the LP to give me more play with the LP volume knob.
> I've considered the iFi IEmatch, but I believe that is only for se output(I could be wrong about that)


I have a goldpoint SA2X as a passive preamp into my Liquid Platinum. Works fine.


----------



## DRHamp

atomicbob said:


> DC input resistance measures
> 97K Bal input
> 172K SE input



Thank you, that's what I needed


----------



## DRHamp

atomicbob said:


> I have a goldpoint SA2X as a passive preamp into my Liquid Platinum. Works fine.



Wow @atomicbob Thank you very much that's the one I was looking at


----------



## Allanmarcus

DRHamp said:


> Wow @atomicbob Thank you very much that's the one I was looking at


A Schiit Sys would probably also work just as well for a lot less money. Just set it up hidden from view at 1/3 volume, and then use the pot on the amp.


----------



## Coolblue

Allanmarcus said:


> A Schiit Sys would probably also work just as well for a lot less money. Just set it up hidden from view at 1/3 volume, and then use the pot on the amp.



Only consideration for Sys would be that it is SE only whereas SA2X seems to be a balanced XLR preamp. But for the price sys can't be beat .


----------



## Allanmarcus

Coolblue said:


> Only consideration for Sys would be that it is SE only whereas SA2X seems to be a balanced XLR preamp. But for the price sys can't be beat .


Well, since the amp doesn’t perform any better with balanced in vs SE in, unless you have some DAC that performs better with balanced out, it really doesn’t matter. What DAC do you have?


----------



## Coolblue

Allanmarcus said:


> Well, since the amp doesn’t perform any better with balanced in vs SE in, unless you have some DAC that performs better with balanced out, it really doesn’t matter. What DAC do you have?



I agree with what you said, but I do have a Schiit Yggdrasil A2 where the SE is no slouch but  the balanced outs are much better.

Sys is a very good option to have, no doubt about it.


----------



## franz12

Coolblue said:


> I agree with what you said, but I do have a Schiit Yggdrasil A2 where the SE is no slouch but  the balanced outs are much better.
> 
> Sys is a very good option to have, no doubt about it.



I think that is because that gear was optimized to the balanced outs when it was architectured. It could been the other way.


----------



## elwappo99

Just a heads up for anyone on the fence for this amp:

Ebay is running a 15% off coupon tomorrow <- credit to the deals thread Captain @wormsdriver . Looks like it'll cap out at $100

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Monolith-L...li/392168189852?hash=item5b4f0baf9c:rk:1:pf:0



Congrats to @runeight . This amp really pulled out that Cavalli amp sound. So much to enjoy. 

Big winners for synergy:
Focal Elex
Senn HD800
Hifiman Edition X <-- Really really good! 

I'm still on the fence with the HE-6. It really depends on the loudness level of the song.


----------



## greenkiwi

Emotiva had a balanced passive volume control. You might be able to pick one up used.

Are you playing from a computer? You could adjust the volume digitally before sending to the yggy.


----------



## i20bot (Nov 21, 2018)

Why am I getting taxed for it on ebay?  Is it because of Monoprice?  It's weird that Monoprice and ebay have different amount of tax for me on their sites.  Just don't remember seeing tax on ebay before.  Although I haven't really bought from ebay in a while.


----------



## wormsdriver

elwappo99 said:


> Just a heads up for anyone on the fence for this amp:
> 
> Ebay is running a 15% off coupon tomorrow <- credit to the deals thread Captain @wormsdriver . Looks like it'll cap out at $100
> 
> ...


I was researching to see if we would be able to take advantage of the 10% ebay bucks that ended tonight. For example, buying the LP tonight and getting $70 in ebay bucks, then waiting to actually pay for the LP till tomorrow and thus also having the 15% ($100) discount but unfortunately it is not possible.


----------



## JamesCanada

I jumped on the bandwagon!
I don't know if its just all the hype surrounding this piece or the wait, but I opted to get one.
I'll be pairing it with the RME ADI 2 Dac. with 800s's , EMU Teaks and the 6XX's
I'll keep you posted how the pairing is with this dac in balanced and unbalanced.

Thanks for all the info, made my purchase easy.


----------



## rockytopwiz

elwappo99 said:


> Just a heads up for anyone on the fence for this amp:
> 
> Ebay is running a 15% off coupon tomorrow <- credit to the deals thread Captain @wormsdriver . Looks like it'll cap out at $100
> 
> ...


Thanks BB, this got me to bite.

I'll post my impressions when it arrives next week!  

I didn't even have to go to a store for my black Friday shopping this year.  

Hopefully the ole lady doesn't find anything in the sale ads.


----------



## gordec

I want to play with the Liquid Platinum but it’s probably underpowered for Susvara given it’s not great with HE6. Anyone tried them with HE1000?


----------



## Mudshark

elwappo99 said:


> Just a heads up for anyone on the fence for this amp:
> 
> Ebay is running a 15% off coupon tomorrow <- credit to the deals thread Captain @wormsdriver . Looks like it'll cap out at $100
> 
> ...



Thanks very much for this ... I just ordered on eBay.  I was planning to wait until 11/23 to get the extended Monoprice holiday demo period, but $100 off was too good to pass up!

Happy Thanksgiving to all!


----------



## rockytopwiz

gordec said:


> I want to play with the Liquid Platinum but it’s probably underpowered for Susvara given it’s not great with HE6. Anyone tried them with HE1000?


Some people have said it's an excellent match for the 1k.  Those opinions are what got me to order.  When mine arrives I'll let ya know what I think of the pairing.


----------



## Phantaminum

rockytopwiz said:


> Some people have said it's an excellent match for the 1k.  Those opinions are what got me to order.  When mine arrives I'll let ya know what I think of the pairing.



The Ananda and LP are a fantastic pairing. The default tubes work fine after they’re burned in but if you swap them for higher end NOS tubes it really elevates the SQ. I have a feeling it’ll be the same with the 1K.


----------



## sahmen

Mudshark said:


> Hi, I am interested in the LP and am wondering if it is likely to be a meaningful upgrade from my current amp (Schiit Jotunheim), with which I am generally very happy.
> 
> My primary cans are: Focal Clear (balanced), Audeze LCD-X (single-ended), and Audeze LCD-2F (single-ended).  I also use my Denon AH-D2000 (single-ended) and Audio-Technica  ATH-W3000ANV (single-ended) occasionally.
> 
> ...



I think your question begs a couple of other questions : I notice you seem to use many of your cans in SE mode (with the exception of the Focal Clear)... Is there any special reason for that?  This is important because the LP actually performs better in Balanced mode, and might not be optimal for those cans which you use in SE mode.

The second question regards what DAC you're using...

With those two caveats out of the way, i feel pretty confident in saying that : with the right DAC to assure optimal synergy, and with all headphones used in balanced mode, you're most likely to appreciate the LP a little more over the Jot... 

To be fair, I have never heard the Jot, so you will ultimately need the input of someone who has done a head to head comparo of the Jot with the LP.  Even then, subjective impressions


gordec said:


> I want to play with the Liquid Platinum but it’s probably underpowered for Susvara given it’s not great with HE6. Anyone tried them with HE1000?



The LP really rocks my He-1000 quite well, and effortlessly too. It translates the technical qualities of these cans really well, and I wound't hesitate at all to recommend the pairing.


----------



## Mudshark

sahmen said:


> I notice you seem to use many of your cans in SE mode (with the exception of the Focal Clear)... Is there any special reason for that?



A few reasons, actually.  I have several HP amps and all of them are SE-only except the Jot.  Also, I feed the Jot single-ended from the tape-loop output of my preamp -- which I will do with the LP -- so I did not think there would be much benefit to coming out of the Jot balanced.  Finally, I have yet to find a reasonably priced three-meter balanced headphone cable with stellar reviews.  (With the Focal Clear's, I use the stock balanced cable that came with the cans.)



sahmen said:


> The second question regards what DAC you're using...



PS Audio DirectStream Sr.

Thanks for your feedback and suggestions.


----------



## Rattle

Ordered from eBay ! What's a good balanced cable for HD6xx ?


----------



## LCMusicLover

Rattle said:


> Ordered from eBay ! What's a good balanced cable for HD6xx ?


I've been very happy with my cables from LQI cables:

https://lqicables.com/

Nice ergonomics, good service, reasonable prices.  I got one for my HD-6xx, and another short, 2.5mm TRRS for my Utopia.  The whole custom sleeve color thing is fun!

I've also purchased from Triton:

http://tritonaudiocables.com/

Great service, and very fast (3 days from order to delivery). He does also custom work for reasonable prices (re-termination, unusual adapter/interconnects...).

GLTY.

PS, I ordered from eBay as well -- couldn't pass up $100 off.  Also, matched Gold Lions for $75 - 15%.


----------



## franz12

Hard to pass this deal as well. Gave in, and ordered..


----------



## Odin412

franz12 said:


> Hard to pass this deal as well. Gave in, and ordered..



Same here. I'm going to end up buying it anyway so might as well save the $100.


----------



## tommyk

Odin412 said:


> Same here. I'm going to end up buying it anyway so might as well save the $100.


I envy all of you guys, who... resisted the temptation today. Such superhuman willpower...


----------



## i20bot

Oh, that code is the ebay app only?  Shoot, when I get home it'll be too late.


----------



## greenkiwi

I wish I'd waited and not ordered directly... oh well.  Still awesome.


----------



## spyder1

Rattle said:


> Ordered from eBay ! What's a good balanced cable for HD6xx ?



The balanced cable for Sennheiser HD650 from Sennheiser, comes in two lengths 6ft, 10ft. This is what I use.


----------



## Odin412

i20bot said:


> Oh, that code is the ebay app only?  Shoot, when I get home it'll be too late.



Yes, I tried using it on the webpage but it needs the app to work.


----------



## humblesquad

Hi, let me ask for advice. I much prefer LCX to MCTH mainly because of speed, crispness and details. Should I stick with LCX (or SS amps generally) rather than LP? Or, is LP worth trying as an upgrade from LCX?


----------



## sahmen (Nov 22, 2018)

humblesquad said:


> Hi, let me ask for advice. I much prefer LCX to MCTH mainly because of speed, crispness and details. Should I stick with LCX (or SS amps generally) rather than LP? Or, is LP worth trying as an upgrade from LCX?



I have never heard the LCX or MCTH, but, FWIW, I have the Monolith Liquid Spark, the Liquid Carbon v1, and the Liquid Platinum, and I consider the Liquid Platinum to be a noticeably solid upgrade over the others.

I do not know how my Liquid Carbon v1 compares with the Massdrop LCX, but I feel reasonably safe in assuming that they will be close in sq.  At any rate, all the three units I own share the Cavalli house sound, at least in their basic tonality...  But the differences are clearly noticeable, and among the three that I know, and have mentioned, the LP is the undisputed king of the castle...

I think it would be worth your while to audition it at least, and judge things for yourself...  If the 15% e-bay rebate is still active, then this will be an excellent time to pull the trigger...  Personally, I am regretting a bit, that I was so trigger happy on November 1st when the LPs came out...

You have the opportunity to get it at a nice discount (if it is still available)... I know a Win win scenario when I see one


----------



## franz12 (Nov 22, 2018)

sahmen said:


> I have never heard the LCX or MCTH, but, FWIW, I have the Monolith Liquid Spark, the Liquid Carbon v1, and the Liquid Platinum, and I consider the Liquid Platinum to be a noticeably solid upgrade over the others.
> 
> I do not know how my Liquid Carbon v1 compares with the Massdrop LCX, but I feel reasonably safe in assuming that the will be close in sq.  At any rate, all the three units I own share the Cavalli house sound, at least in their basic tonality...  But the differences are clearly noticeable, and among the three that I know, and have mentioned, the LP is the undisputed king of the castle...
> 
> ...



It seems a little strange that shipping is free on ebay, while they charge the shipping on their own website, not to say the 15 percent discount.
I would advise all monilith products should be bought from ebay, possibly with a good discount.


----------



## humblesquad

sahmen said:


> I have never heard the LCX or MCTH, but, FWIW, I have the Monolith Liquid Spark, the Liquid Carbon v1, and the Liquid Platinum, and I consider the Liquid Platinum to be a noticeably solid upgrade over the others.
> 
> I do not know how my Liquid Carbon v1 compares with the Massdrop LCX, but I feel reasonably safe in assuming that the will be close in sq.  At any rate, all the three units I own share the Cavalli house sound, at least in their basic tonality...  But the differences are clearly noticeable, and among the three that I know, and have mentioned, the LP is the undisputed king of the castle...
> 
> ...



Much appreciated. Unfortunately the eBay coupon was not available in my country. I may just go in!


----------



## Coolblue

franz12 said:


> It seems a little strange that shipping is free on ebay, while they charge the shipping on their own website, not to say the 15 percent discount.
> I would advise all monilith products should be bought from ebay, possibly with a good discount.



And free returns too via eBay, if one decide against it for any reason whatsoever. So quite a wonderful opportunity to try it risk free for 30 days.


----------



## heliosphann

sahmen said:


> I have never heard the LCX or MCTH, but, FWIW, I have the Monolith Liquid Spark, the Liquid Carbon v1, and the Liquid Platinum, and I consider the Liquid Platinum to be a noticeably solid upgrade over the others.
> 
> I do not know how my Liquid Carbon v1 compares with the Massdrop LCX, but I feel reasonably safe in assuming that they will be close in sq.  At any rate, all the three units I own share the Cavalli house sound, at least in their basic tonality...  But the differences are clearly noticeable, and among the three that I know, and have mentioned, the LP is the undisputed king of the castle...
> 
> ...



I had a LCX and compared it to my LCv1. Wasn't that close, the v1 was clearly better.


----------



## UsoppNoKami (Nov 23, 2018)

Speaking of jumping the gun, here is my LP hooked up to a custom made DC 36V LPS. In my defense I ordered it about the same time as the amp. One benefit I can see at the moment is that I can hook up the LPS to my voltage regulator and surge protector since I have heavy duty IEC connectors.  lol


----------



## sahmen

UsoppNoKami said:


> Speaking of jumping the gun, here is my LP hooked up to a custom made DC 36V LPS. In my defense I ordered it about the same time as the amp. One benefit I can see at the moment is that I can hook up the LPS to my voltage regulator and surge protector since I have heavy duty IEC connectors.  lol


Nice set up!  Any impressions as to how the LPS compares to stack in performance?


----------



## sahmen

heliosphann said:


> I had a LCX and compared it to my LCv1. Wasn't that close, the v1 was clearly better.


I frankly did not know this.  It is admittedly making me feel all warm and fuzzy about my Carbon v1, all over again, and happy I did not sell it.  Not that keeping it was a particularly difficult decision.  I have always found it to be an excellent little performer.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

sahmen said:


> Nice set up!  Any impressions as to how the LPS compares to stack in performance?



well, measurements have proven the stock power supply is very quiet.  i didn't hear anything different, tho it's day 1 and the LPS is a 5KG beast of its own that probably needs to burn in too. 

i don't expect any benefit save for being able to plug it in directly to my AVR / surge protection hahaha

I'll try some serious A/B in a few days, just to satisfy the curiosity...


----------



## llcook51

gordec said:


> I want to play with the Liquid Platinum but it’s probably underpowered for Susvara given it’s not great with HE6. Anyone tried them with HE1000?


LP has more than enough power for the HEK v2 and the LCD-4.


----------



## heliosphann

sahmen said:


> I frankly did not know this.  It is admittedly making me feel all warm and fuzzy about my Carbon v1, all over again, and happy I did not sell it.  Not that keeping it was a particularly difficult decision.  I have always found it to be an excellent little performer.



For sure. IMO it was a steal at $600 and when the v2 came out still worth every penny at $800.

When I see used units going for $400 or so, I'm always telling people to jump on it. Only issue is there have been some build issues. Mine developed an issued after the Lifetime warranty was void and had to pay to get it repaired.


----------



## gtb75

heliosphann said:


> I had a LCX and compared it to my LCv1. Wasn't that close, the v1 was clearly better.



Interesting feedback... I always wondered how the "genuine" compared to the MD version. I have a LCv1.5 - got a few "mods" when it went back to AC for repair (before he closed down) and am still happy with it. That being said I did grab the LP with the eBay 15% off yesterday, so glad to hear you think it's a meaningful step up over the LC


----------



## humblesquad

Is it safe to run LP continuously for a long time (10+ hours)?


----------



## jmpsmash

humblesquad said:


> Is it safe to run LP continuously for a long time (10+ hours)?


I have been running mine almost continuously for the past 5 days.


----------



## buffalomatt

elwappo99 said:


> Big winners for synergy:
> Focal Elex
> Senn HD800
> Hifiman Edition X <-- Really really good!
> ...



Are you using a balanced or SE cable on the HEX?


----------



## runeight

humblesquad said:


> Is it safe to run LP continuously for a long time (10+ hours)?



It is. After about 100 hours any additional break-in is slow. Better to not put unnecessary hours on it.


----------



## llcook51

humblesquad said:


> Is it safe to run LP continuously for a long time (10+ hours)?


I run it in 12-15 hour spans with no problem.


----------



## llcook51

runeight said:


> It is. After about 100 hours any additional break-in is slow. Better to not put unnecessary hours on it.


Thanks. I am getting close to the 100 hour mark.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

humblesquad said:


> Is it safe to run LP continuously for a long time (10+ hours)?



My LP has been running for  days straight ,


runeight said:


> It is. After about 100 hours any additional break-in is slow. Better to not put unnecessary hours on it.



I did 100 hours on the stock EH tubes... then my NOS Philips SQs show up, so it's been running non stop for another 4 days.  lol 

Now, off to enjoy the music rather than just racking up the electricity bill


----------



## llcook51

_Where The River Goes_
by Wolfgang Muthspiel, Ambrose Akinmusire, Brad Mehldau, Larry Grenadier, Eric Harland
This is a great new album to try out with the LP. The music is pure liquid.


----------



## llcook51

Taking a metal journal through the Master quality tracks of TIDAL today: *Mastered by Essential: Master Metal.*
_LP handles Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Megadeath and Slayer with equal grace as it does Bach and Beethoven._


----------



## nicknack40

Anybody using this Amp with the LCD2-C's very tempted with this


----------



## Pharmaboy

sahmen said:


> I frankly did not know this.  It is admittedly making me feel all warm and fuzzy about my Carbon v1, all over again, and happy I did not sell it.  Not that keeping it was a particularly difficult decision.  I have always found it to be an excellent little performer.



I have the LC v2 & love that little thing to death. Can't imagine selling it. I have 4-5 other amps, one of which is way more expensive & 2-3 of which are way more powerful. Still, the LC remains the amp "I just have to hear this on" for all headphones (especially balanced ones).

That great sound is the whole reason I'm on this thread and interested in an affordable hybrid Cavalli design.

Now if only I could find an amp w/switchable output impedance that's not a tiny toy...


----------



## runeight

Pharmaboy said:


> I have the LC v2 & love that little thing to death. Can't imagine selling it. I have 4-5 other amps, one of which is way more expensive & 2-3 of which are way more powerful. Still, the LC remains the amp "I just have to hear this on" for all headphones (especially balanced ones).
> 
> That great sound is the whole reason I'm on this thread and interested in an affordable hybrid Cavalli design.
> 
> Now if only I could find an amp w/switchable output impedance that's not a tiny toy...



I am curious to know why you need switchable Zo.


----------



## Pharmaboy

runeight said:


> I am curious to know why you need switchable Zo.



"need" is maybe too strong. "Interested in" & "would like to try" are more like it.

Reason is I've had very mixed results w/high impedance headphones. Some care a lot about getting high impedance source/power; others do well on std  SS. I do have a Woo OTL (SE only), would also like to have a SS amp w/switchable output impedance--& ideally also balanced out.

It really comes down to flexibility and being prepared for any headphone...


----------



## KaiserTK

Just received mine today.
Weirdly the left tube won’t go in as far as the right one. It works fine either way.
Compared to the CTH, much better low end extension and crisper sounds. 
Thanks Alex, loving it so far!


----------



## runeight

Pharmaboy said:


> "need" is maybe too strong. "Interested in" & "would like to try" are more like it.
> 
> Reason is I've had very mixed results w/high impedance headphones. Some care a lot about getting high impedance source/power; others do well on std  SS. I do have a Woo OTL (SE only), would also like to have a SS amp w/switchable output impedance--& ideally also balanced out.
> 
> It really comes down to flexibility and being prepared for any headphone...



I see. This could be related to Zo or it could be related to ability to control the drivers. I'd be interested to know what you find out.


----------



## rlawli

KaiserTK said:


> ...
> Weirdly the left tube won’t go in as far as the right one. It works fine either way.



The tube sockets are very stiff but both tubes when fully seated are the same height.


----------



## harpo1 (Nov 23, 2018)

@runeight I have a question about the Liquid Carbon V1.  Are the RCA inputs DC or AC/capacitor coupled inputs?  I need to know because of a tube amp I'd like to use as a pre-amp for the LC.  TIA


----------



## runeight

KaiserTK said:


> Just received mine today.
> Weirdly the left tube won’t go in as far as the right one. It works fine either way.
> Compared to the CTH, much better low end extension and crisper sounds.
> Thanks Alex, loving it so far!



If the tubes are the same height and you really can't seat it MHO is that you might want to contac


harpo1 said:


> @runeight I have a question about the Liquid Carbon V1.  Are the RCA inputs DC or AC/capacitor coupled inputs?  I need to know because of a tube amp I'd like to use as a pre-amp for the LC.  TIA



DC


----------



## Benny-x

UsoppNoKami said:


> well, measurements have proven the stock power supply is very quiet.  i didn't hear anything different, tho it's day 1 and the LPS is a 5KG beast of its own that probably needs to burn in too.
> 
> i don't expect any benefit save for being able to plug it in directly to my AVR / surge protection hahaha
> 
> I'll try some serious A/B in a few days, just to satisfy the curiosity...


I have an Audio-gd Phoenix and I'm wondering about replacing it with a Liquid Platinum and aftermarket LPS. You might not have a Phoenix, but you do have a few pieces of Audio-gd gear, so I am really looking forward to hearing your feedback. Especially in comparison to the Audio-gd amps or amp sections you have there.


----------



## llcook51

llcook51 said:


> Taking a metal journal through the Master quality tracks of TIDAL today: *Mastered by Essential: Master Metal.*
> _LP handles Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Megadeath and Slayer with equal grace as it does Bach and Beethoven._


Taboo (Music From The Original TV Series) by Max Richter is a truly immersive album with the LP. Haunting lows and eerie highs.


----------



## abvolt

It sure is a nice looking amp can't wait to get my hands on one, has any one tried socket savers with this amp, if they fit I enjoy rolling my tubes..


----------



## DRHamp

abvolt said:


> It sure is a nice looking amp can't wait to get my hands on one, has any one tried socket savers with this amp, if they fit I enjoy rolling my tubes..



I'm currently using socket savers with no problems.


----------



## llcook51

llcook51 said:


> Taboo (Music From The Original TV Series) by Max Richter is a truly immersive album with the LP. Haunting lows and eerie highs.


Anne Akiko Meyers' "_Mirror In Mirror_" is remarkable and brilliant through the_ LP_ and the _MrSpeakers Ether2. _There is an unmatched  fullness and richness of the Meyers' violin.


----------



## betula

Has anyone had a chance to compare the LP to any of the Questyle amps? According to what I read they are obviously very different, but I am still interested in the LP for a different taste.
I am familiar with Questyle sound but can only guess on the LP. Here is my guessing, please confirm or disprove it _if you had a chance to hear both amps_.
Questyle 600i: neutral but smooth, very clean, spacious, detailed, fast. Good extension to both ends. Dynamic, punchy but not sharp or edgy at all. Detailed, layered authoritative sound but pleasant at the same time. Balanced, 'high quality' sound.
LP: Warmer, less detailed. More mid-centric, less punchy, smoother, more 'liquid and sweet' sounding. Intimacy instead of clarity and spaciousness. Not as fast but very pleasant sounding. More life to acoustic instruments and vocals. Perhaps less ideal for electronic music. Less detailed/punchy/fast sound especially in the bass. 

While I know the Questyle, I am just guessing on the LP. Am I correct? Or completely wrong? I would be happy to receive some feedback. Thanks!


----------



## UsoppNoKami (Nov 25, 2018)

Benny-x said:


> I have an Audio-gd Phoenix and I'm wondering about replacing it with a Liquid Platinum and aftermarket LPS. You might not have a Phoenix, but you do have a few pieces of Audio-gd gear, so I am really looking forward to hearing your feedback. Especially in comparison to the Audio-gd amps or amp sections you have there.



Never heard the Phoenix, but I have done an A/B comparison with the NFB1-AMP.  My LP has been fitted with NOS Mullard tubes, branded Philips SQ (E188CC) and an LPS I shared in a post a couple of pages back.

Both amps fed by AGD R2R-R1 DAC, NFB1-AMP connected via ACSS cables whilst LP is via XLR.  My A/B listening was done on Focal Elex with Norne Audio Silvergarde S3 cable.

One liner: IMHO, the LP has better sound stage and dynamics vs AGD, but the LP can sometimes sound a bit bright on badly mastered tracks.

I don't know 100% yet if it's the rest of my gear chain or the tubes I have rolled in, but I just avoid queuing the problem albums from my FLAC/DSD library when I'm listening on the LP.

The more mellow sound of the NFB1-AMP is more forgiving/laid back of bad albums, but also less engaging when i really want to just sit down and listen.

Having said that, when listening to stuff like rock with a lot of drums, guitars and everything jamming at the same time, the LP presents the music in a much more enjoyable manner to me.

I've got 2 PC rigs in my man cave, the LP is staying on the main rig for sure


----------



## Volken

UsoppNoKami said:


> Never heard the Phoenix, but I have done an A/B comparison with the NFB1-AMP.  My LP has been fitted with NOS Mullard tubes, branded Philips SQ (E188CC) and an LPS I shared in a post a couple of pages back.
> 
> Both amps fed by AGD R2R-R1 DAC, NFB1-AMP connected via ACSS cables whilst LP is via XLR.  My A/B listening was done on Focal Elex with Norne Audio Silvergarde S3 cable.
> 
> ...



Fellow Nakama, how would you compare LP to Cayin since they are both hybrids?


----------



## sahmen

UsoppNoKami said:


> Never heard the Phoenix, but I have done an A/B comparison with the NFB1-AMP.  My LP has been fitted with NOS Mullard tubes, branded Philips SQ (E188CC) and an LPS I shared in a post a couple of pages back.
> 
> Both amps fed by AGD R2R-R1 DAC, NFB1-AMP connected via ACSS cables whilst LP is via XLR.  My A/B listening was done on Focal Elex with Norne Audio Silvergarde S3 cable.
> 
> ...



Just an ironic note :  Couldn't the slight "brightness" you mentioned be a problem with the Focal Elex, rather than the LP? I ask, because I have a metrum acoustics ambre and the Metrum Acoustic NOS DAC feeding my Liquid Platinum.  The Metrum NOS DACs are generally known for being laidback, and they usually act the part with the Hifiman He-1000, or the Audeze LCD-X, or the Audeze LCDi4 playing on the attached LP : Wide, Airy, and deep sound-stage, black background,, great extension at both ends, and great detail retrieval with the treble smooth as a baby's bum... 

A couple of weeks ago, however,  I tried my newly acquired Focal Elex on the same rig, and it showed all the listed characteristics, with the exception of the "smooth" top end part. Using the stock balanced  cable that came  with the Elex showed the top-end harshness and aggressiveness at its worst.  Replacing the stock cable with a Norne Draug v3 cable tamed things down and smoothen things out somewhat, but it did not eliminate the harshness entirely.. Finally, I replaced the Draug v3 with a Silvergarde S clear cable, and while it did not entirely eliminate all the aggressiveness, it toned it down enough to make the Elex listenable and even enjoyable...  The experience was the same for all tracks I listened to, and not just for badly mastered ones...  I was actually listening to a lot of ECM label Jazz albums on Roon/Tidal, and those are among some of the best mastered albums I can think of.

This encounter of the Elex with the LP in the chain I have described, eventually led to my decision to sell off the newly acquired Elex, with a lot of sadness, because I found a lot to like about the it otherwise.  The point i am making is that, because all of my other cans have relatively much better synergy with the LP, and behave much better to my ears when playing the same albums on the same rig, I never really saw the the LP as the source of the Elex's harshness and glare.  And that is what makes your conclusion interesting to me, as it is making me look at the LP in a different light for the first time.

Of course system synergy and subjective impressions are paramount, so the most reliable conclusion I could draw from my little experiment was  that the Elex was either not entirely palatable to my own personal hearing faculties, or it wasn't always playing nice with my rig, and so I do not completely regret deciding to let it go.  I thought the story was, however, worth sharing in the light of your own experience.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Volken said:


> Fellow Nakama, how would you compare LP to Cayin since they are both hybrids?



The HA-1A mk2 isn't a hybrid.. but anyway i guess it's fun rolling tubes to change the sound signature in the Cayin. Not sure my wallet agrees, but the amp is pretty good at revealing the sound of the tubes chosen so there isn't a fixed sound to compare against the LP. 

I currently have NOS Mullards and Amperex tubes in the Cayin, nice bass, warm sounds and good clarity / up top. LP is on the NOS Mullard-Philips SQ as described in my earlier post.

On other aspects, the Cayin runs pretty hot (5 tubes), is solidly built and heavy, functions as a nice tube pre-amp (LP's RCA output is passthrough only), and is very powerful tho it's single ended. Planning to hook up a Freya to both the LP and Cayin amps so that I dont go from too soft to too loud in 1-2mm on the volume knobs :/


----------



## UsoppNoKami

sahmen said:


> Just an ironic note :  Couldn't the slight "brightness" you mentioned be a problem with the Focal Elex, rather than the LP? I ask, because I have a metrum acoustics ambre and the Metrum Acoustic NOS DAC feeding my Liquid Platinum.  The Metrum NOS DACs are generally known for being laidback, and they usually act the part with the Hifiman He-1000, or the Audeze LCD-X, or the Audeze LCDi4 playing on the attached LP : Wide, Airy, and deep sound-stage, black background,, great extension at both ends, and great detail retrieval with the treble smooth as a baby's bum...
> 
> A couple of weeks ago, however,  I tried my newly acquired Focal Elex on the same rig, and it showed all the listed characteristics, with the exception of the "smooth" top end part. Using the stock balanced  cable that came  with the Elex showed the top-end harshness and aggressiveness at its worst.  Replacing the stock cable with a Norne Draug v3 cable tamed things down and smoothen things out somewhat, but it did not eliminate the harshness entirely.. Finally, I replaced the Draug v3 with a Silvergarde S clear cable, and while it did not entirely eliminate all the aggressiveness, it toned it down enough to make the Elex listenable and even enjoyable...  The experience was the same for all tracks I listened to, and not just for badly mastered ones...  I was actually listening to a lot of ECM label Jazz albums on Roon/Tidal, and those are among some of the best mastered albums I can think of.
> 
> ...



Hmm.. i generally don't have any problems with the Elex, I've owned them for quite a while and use them almost everyday as they are the most comfortable on my head. 

I started the Elex with the AudioGD R2R-11 then the R2R-R1 + NFB1-AMP stack, so perhaps the combination of the Focal's dynamics and AGD's laid back / slightly dampened sound matched in a way that I never noticed any glare. I appreciate the LP's qualities as a sonic upgrade over my old AGD amp, but the problem tracks do get in my face now. Skip and listen another time with another set of cans I guess, doesn't bother me too much


----------



## Triodemode

UsoppNoKami said:


> Never heard the Phoenix, but I have done an A/B comparison with the NFB1-AMP.  My LP has been fitted with NOS Mullard tubes, branded Philips SQ (E188CC) and an LPS I shared in a post a couple of pages back.
> 
> Both amps fed by AGD R2R-R1 DAC, NFB1-AMP connected via ACSS cables whilst LP is via XLR.  My A/B listening was done on Focal Elex with Norne Audio Silvergarde S3 cable.
> 
> ...



Great setup UsoppNoKami...  From your description, it appears your NFB1-AMP shares a similar sonic signature as my Violectric HPA V200, which pairs wonderfully with the Beyer DT-1990. I'm thinking the LP with proper NOS tubes will fill in a slight U shaped curve that these Beyers have, without any increase in treble hardness or grain. Have you rolled any other tubes in the LP other than those Mullards you mentioned, and maybe comment on how they affect the presentation?  

BTW, can you please tell me who makes those beautiful wooden headphone stands?


----------



## alphanumerix1

UsoppNoKami said:


> Hmm.. i generally don't have any problems with the Elex, I've owned them for quite a while and use them almost everyday as they are the most comfortable on my head.
> 
> I started the Elex with the AudioGD R2R-11 then the R2R-R1 + NFB1-AMP stack, so perhaps the combination of the Focal's dynamics and AGD's laid back / slightly dampened sound matched in a way that I never noticed any glare. I appreciate the LP's qualities as a sonic upgrade over my old AGD amp, but the problem tracks do get in my face now. Skip and listen another time with another set of cans I guess, doesn't bother me too much



Nice thought on LP vs NFB1 with stock tubes?


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Triodemode said:


> Great setup UsoppNoKami...  From your description, it appears your NFB1-AMP shares a similar sonic signature as my Violectric HPA V200, which pairs wonderfully with the Beyer DT-1990. I'm thinking the LP with proper NOS tubes will fill in a slight U shaped curve that these Beyers have, without any increase in treble hardness or grain. Have you rolled any other tubes in the LP other than those Mullards you mentioned, and maybe comment on how they affect the presentation?
> 
> BTW, can you please tell me who makes those beautiful wooden headphone stands?



I'm waiting for new production Genelex Gold Lions that @runeight recommended earlier in this thread, don't have other tubes to roll yet as I didn't want to accumulate too many tubes before I knew which direction I need to go before listening to them in the amp.  I thought the LP sounded fine with the stock EH, so a bit more extension in bass & treble with the genelex sounds like a good match to me.  Who knew I would have to wait longer to get new tubes than vintage ones lol....

As for now, TBH i think the NOS Mullard-Philips SQ gives me a very pure sound, listening to Nozomi Terasawa's Sweet Violin album is heavenly with the R2R-R1 + Elex + Silvergarde S3 cable.  The violin never sounds piercing or sharp, so I really think the gear is just so transparent at showing me bad albums, but that's the artist/studio's fault haha 

The headphone stands are from Room's Audio Line, got them from here:
https://www.thomannmusic.com/misc_a...l?filter=true&manufacturer[]=ROOMs Audio Line


----------



## UsoppNoKami

alphanumerix1 said:


> Nice thought on LP vs NFB1 with stock tubes?



mmm from memory, LP on stock EH tubes had a more dynamic sound than the AGD amp.  If I didn't like experimenting with my gear, I would be quite happy with the stock tubes.  But once a modder, always a modder... lol.

Reckon the NFB1-AMP is very smooth sounding, but depending on pairing i guess one could even say it is boring.  E.g. my Audeze LCD2C is a very laid back headphone, and it sounds somewhat rolled off on vocals with the NFB1-AMP unless i switch my DAC's NOS mode to one that brings the vocals more forward, but I don't have to do that with the LP.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Tube noob here. I was looking at socket savers, but can’t really tell which are correct for LP. When I google ‘6922 socket savers’ I get ‘9 pin minature’ socket savers. Is that correct?


----------



## Serge Bernamej

I read on headphone guru that the treble,is grainy?!!!! Oh please, i just put an order on the amp and I’m quite treble sensitive. On;y listen to classical music here. I hope it can be a smooth sound...


----------



## Serge Bernamej

runeight said:


> Agree with MattTCG. Balanced cable will easily give most benefit bc then you are using the full capability of the amp.


Hello sir,
When you speak of balanced cables do you also mean balanced connectors to the input of the amp? I thought RCA or XLR conmectors would be as good; as long as we use the balanced output jack of the amp.


----------



## heliosphann

Serge Bernamej said:


> I read on headphone guru that the treble,is grainy?!!!! Oh please, i just put an order on the amp and I’m quite treble sensitive. On;y listen to classical music here. I hope it can be a smooth sound...



That's actually @Hansotek review. I think you're misinterpreting what he said regarding how "grainy" the treble is.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

He says it has some grain and that it could be smoother.


----------



## heliosphann

Serge Bernamej said:


> He says it has some grain and that it could be smoother.



He says it's not entirely grain free, if holding it to the "highest standards". He was referring to the smoothness of the Liquid Crimson (which I owned also) and that was almost a $3k amp. If it's just slightly more "grainy" than the Crimson, I think it's gonna be just fine...


----------



## Serge Bernamej

heliosphann said:


> He says it's not entirely grain free, if holding it to the "highest standards". He was referring to the smoothness of the Liquid Crimson (which I owned also) and that was almost a $3k amp. If it's just slightly more "grainy" than the Crimson, I think it's gonna be just fine...


I hope you’re right !


----------



## heliosphann

Serge Bernamej said:


> I hope you’re right !



I wouldn't sweat it. Even on the cheaper Cavalli offerings from Massdrop/Monoprice, I wouldn't classify any of them as having very grainy treble, let alone sibilant.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

heliosphann said:


> I wouldn't sweat it. Even on the cheaper Cavalli offerings from Massdrop/Monoprice, I wouldn't classify any of them as having very grainy treble, let alone sibilant.


True. I do have the massdrop LC and don’t find it grainy; although it performs very well with my Denon 7200 it sucks (litterally sucks the life out) with the Alpha Prime.


----------



## UsoppNoKami (Nov 26, 2018)

UsoppNoKami said:


> Never heard the Phoenix, but I have done an A/B comparison with the NFB1-AMP.  My LP has been fitted with NOS Mullard tubes, branded Philips SQ (E188CC) and an LPS I shared in a post a couple of pages back.
> 
> Both amps fed by AGD R2R-R1 DAC, NFB1-AMP connected via ACSS cables whilst LP is via XLR.  My A/B listening was done on Focal Elex with Norne Audio Silvergarde S3 cable.
> 
> ...





sahmen said:


> Just an ironic note :  Couldn't the slight "brightness" you mentioned be a problem with the Focal Elex, rather than the LP? I ask, because I have a metrum acoustics ambre and the Metrum Acoustic NOS DAC feeding my Liquid Platinum.  The Metrum NOS DACs are generally known for being laidback, and they usually act the part with the Hifiman He-1000, or the Audeze LCD-X, or the Audeze LCDi4 playing on the attached LP : Wide, Airy, and deep sound-stage, black background,, great extension at both ends, and great detail retrieval with the treble smooth as a baby's bum...
> 
> A couple of weeks ago, however,  I tried my newly acquired Focal Elex on the same rig, and it showed all the listed characteristics, with the exception of the "smooth" top end part. Using the stock balanced  cable that came  with the Elex showed the top-end harshness and aggressiveness at its worst.  Replacing the stock cable with a Norne Draug v3 cable tamed things down and smoothen things out somewhat, but it did not eliminate the harshness entirely.. Finally, I replaced the Draug v3 with a Silvergarde S clear cable, and while it did not entirely eliminate all the aggressiveness, it toned it down enough to make the Elex listenable and even enjoyable...  The experience was the same for all tracks I listened to, and not just for badly mastered ones...  I was actually listening to a lot of ECM label Jazz albums on Roon/Tidal, and those are among some of the best mastered albums I can think of.
> 
> ...





UsoppNoKami said:


> Hmm.. i generally don't have any problems with the Elex, I've owned them for quite a while and use them almost everyday as they are the most comfortable on my head.
> 
> I started the Elex with the AudioGD R2R-11 then the R2R-R1 + NFB1-AMP stack, so perhaps the combination of the Focal's dynamics and AGD's laid back / slightly dampened sound matched in a way that I never noticed any glare. I appreciate the LP's qualities as a sonic upgrade over my old AGD amp, but the problem tracks do get in my face now. Skip and listen another time with another set of cans I guess, doesn't bother me too much





Triodemode said:


> Great setup UsoppNoKami...  From your description, it appears your NFB1-AMP shares a similar sonic signature as my Violectric HPA V200, which pairs wonderfully with the Beyer DT-1990. I'm thinking the LP with proper NOS tubes will fill in a slight U shaped curve that these Beyers have, without any increase in treble hardness or grain. Have you rolled any other tubes in the LP other than those Mullards you mentioned, and maybe comment on how they affect the presentation?
> 
> BTW, can you please tell me who makes those beautiful wooden headphone stands?





UsoppNoKami said:


> mmm from memory, LP on stock EH tubes had a more dynamic sound than the AGD amp.  If I didn't like experimenting with my gear, I would be quite happy with the stock tubes.  But once a modder, always a modder... lol.
> 
> Reckon the NFB1-AMP is very smooth sounding, but depending on pairing i guess one could even say it is boring.  E.g. my Audeze LCD2C is a very laid back headphone, and it sounds somewhat rolled off on vocals with the NFB1-AMP unless i switch my DAC's NOS mode to one that brings the vocals more forward, but I don't have to do that with the LP.



Hi fellas, just thought I'd update since I had so much to say over the last couple of pages. 

I have figured out why I felt the LP sounded relatively 'bright' with bad tracks etc per the above. 

I had some time today to do some testing, maintained the NOS Mullard-Philips SQ tubes:

(1) Went back to stock power supply, plugged into a Belkin surge protector power board
(2) LP-LPS-APC voltage regulator
(3) LP-LPS-belkin power board

(1) and (3) sounded equally good, with the LPS giving the LP slightly more volume (didnt touch the volume pot, just turned it off and let everything cool down between testing). 

My problem was connection method (2) , which i had been using on my main PC rig.  Didn't think much of it, but the APC unit must have some kind of filtering going on that dampened the sound.  The bass and fullness of sound was less with this setup vs (1) and (3), which made things sound more top heavy especially on bad tracks.  Didn't notice it earlier on my other rig when i was doing initial burn in and listening tests as there was no AVR there.  @sahmen - listening to all my fav rock songs now on Elex, some of which i had marked problematic , and they are fine now. 

I'm getting a Furutech e-TP80 in + cables fitted with Furutech's NCF power connectors in the next couple of days, gonna make sure the amps i have are powered properly without filtering whilst reducing AC noise.  Good (noob) lesson learnt


----------



## llcook51

Serge Bernamej said:


> I hope you’re right !


Having used the LP for about 100 hours now with the HEK 1000v2, HD 800S and Ether2, I can verify that to my ears the highs are very "liquid." The LP brings out the best in all three of those HPs.


----------



## Hansotek

Serge Bernamej said:


> I hope you’re right !



Yeah, at that point I was probably being somewhat unfair to the amp, lol!


----------



## runeight

Serge Bernamej said:


> Hello sir,
> When you speak of balanced cables do you also mean balanced connectors to the input of the amp? I thought RCA or XLR conmectors would be as good; as long as we use the balanced output jack of the amp.



Most important is using the balanced output as this utilizes the full performance of the amp. I always feel that with a balanced amp balanced in (XLR) and balanced out (XLR) is the best way to go. The Platinum's RCA input have a built-in phase splitter to ensure that the full balanced capability is used.


----------



## rockytopwiz (Nov 26, 2018)

It has arrived!  Wasn't supposed to get here til' Thursday but I got a nice cyber Monday surprise!

This is my first tube amp, so I had a bit of a hard time getting the tubes placed due to user error.  I was afraid to wiggle them in but once I did all was well.

Initial impressions are very good, and this thing smokes my old hdva600 even without burn-in.  I'll wait to give a more detailed impression after spending a little more time with her, but man color me impressed.

Edit: I have a bit of rearranging and cable organization to do but as usual I couldn't wait; I am running balanced from my balanced Parasound ZDac.

Thanks Doc


----------



## llcook51

runeight said:


> Most important is using the balanced output as this utilizes the full performance of the amp. I always feel that with a balanced amp balanced in (XLR) and balanced out (XLR) is the best way to go. The Platinum's RCA input have a built-in phase splitter to ensure that the full balanced capability is used.


Each of my HPs has a cable with a balanced (XLR) plug for just the reasons you stated. The LP is an absolute pleasure. Thank you for providing it.


----------



## LCMusicLover

LP and Gold Lions are both arriving today -- 2 days early.  Hmmm...what to do for fun this evening 

And which hp to plug in first?


----------



## heliosphann

LCMusicLover said:


> LP and Gold Lions are both arriving today -- 2 days early.  Hmmm...what to do for fun this evening
> 
> And which hp to plug in first?



M50x???


----------



## LCMusicLover

heliosphann said:


> M50x???


Well, I was thinking I should go ahead and use one of the sets I already own, as opposed to ordering some other cans and then waiting for delivery to try out the LP.  Crazy, I know!


----------



## llcook51

LCMusicLover said:


> LP and Gold Lions are both arriving today -- 2 days early.  Hmmm...what to do for fun this evening
> 
> And which hp to plug in first?


----------



## LCMusicLover

llcook51 said:


>


OK...Ummm...No!

Just NO!!!


----------



## LCMusicLover

LCMusicLover said:


> Tube noob here. I was looking at socket savers, but can’t really tell which are correct for LP. When I google ‘6922 socket savers’ I get ‘9 pin minature’ socket savers. Is that correct?


Anybody???


----------



## llcook51

LCMusicLover said:


> OK...Ummm...No!
> 
> Just NO!!!


Correct Answer!


----------



## rockytopwiz

Oh, I forgot to mention that I am happy to report the lack of proper packaging has been nullified.  Mine came in good shape with ample airpouches to prevent it from sliding around. 

Probably more meaningful for international consumers, but I was happy to see it.


----------



## LCMusicLover

rockytopwiz said:


> Oh, I forgot to mention that I am happy to report the lack of proper packaging has been nullified.  Mine came in good shape with ample airpouches to prevent it from sliding around.
> 
> Probably more meaningful for international consumers, but I was happy to see it.


FedEx just delivered my LP.  Burning in right now with stock tubes -- I'll pick the Gold Lions up after work.

Agree with @rockytopwiz -- packaging was very well done, very secure.

And when I turned it on to burn in, I couldn't help but listen a bit.  Office system is a bit low-/mid-fi (m1060 driven by Plenue D, SE of course).  Cable adapters to feed Plenue D to SE inputs on LP.

First song which came up was 'Albatross' by the 'real' Fleetwood Mac.  Then 'Jack Straw' from Europe '72.

Sounded like...a new toy  

Seriously, I won't express any opinions until it's ensconced in my home system with a proper source feeding the balanced inputs and my cans connected via balanced out.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

runeight said:


> Most important is using the balanced output as this utilizes the full performance of the amp. I always feel that with a balanced amp balanced in (XLR) and balanced out (XLR) is the best way to go. The Platinum's RCA input have a built-in phase splitter to ensure that the full balanced capability is used.


Got it ! Thanks mr Cavalli !


----------



## Pharmaboy

sahmen said:


> Just an ironic note :  Couldn't the slight "brightness" you mentioned be a problem with the Focal Elex, rather than the LP? I ask, because I have a metrum acoustics ambre and the Metrum Acoustic NOS DAC feeding my Liquid Platinum.  The Metrum NOS DACs are generally known for being laidback, and they usually act the part with the Hifiman He-1000, or the Audeze LCD-X, or the Audeze LCDi4 playing on the attached LP : Wide, Airy, and deep sound-stage, black background,, great extension at both ends, and great detail retrieval with the treble smooth as a baby's bum...
> 
> A couple of weeks ago, however,  I tried my newly acquired Focal Elex on the same rig, and it showed all the listed characteristics, with the exception of the "smooth" top end part. Using the stock balanced  cable that came  with the Elex showed the top-end harshness and aggressiveness at its worst.  Replacing the stock cable with a Norne Draug v3 cable tamed things down and smoothen things out somewhat, but it did not eliminate the harshness entirely.. Finally, I replaced the Draug v3 with a Silvergarde S clear cable, and while it did not entirely eliminate all the aggressiveness, it toned it down enough to make the Elex listenable and even enjoyable...  The experience was the same for all tracks I listened to, and not just for badly mastered ones...  I was actually listening to a lot of ECM label Jazz albums on Roon/Tidal, and those are among some of the best mastered albums I can think of.
> 
> ...



I'm interested in the LP, also in these comments about the Elex. I borrowed a friend's Elear (very similar to the Elex sonically, except w/a bit more bass) on 2 lengthy occasions (1st w/the uncomfortable stock pads; 2nd w/more comfortable after-market pads), Both times I tried the Elear w/4 solid state amps (V281; Lake People G109-A; LC v2; M Stage Matrix HPA-1). It sounded overly dynamic, almost insistent on all my amps, with slight variations. While I admired this or that portion of the frequency range or sound signature on this or that music cut, overall it was an ear- and brain-tiring exprience. 

(apologies to those who love the Elear/Elex...I just couldn't relax w/this sonic profile)

So the fact that an Elex sounded bright w/LP does not suggest to me any automatic characterization of the sound of the LP itself.


----------



## llcook51

rockytopwiz said:


> Oh, I forgot to mention that I am happy to report the lack of proper packaging has been nullified.  Mine came in good shape with ample airpouches to prevent it from sliding around.
> 
> Probably more meaningful for international consumers, but I was happy to see it.


I was pleasantly surprised by that, also. Excellent packaging.


----------



## sahmen

Pharmaboy said:


> I'm interested in the LP, also in these comments about the Elex. I borrowed a friend's Elear (very similar to the Elex sonically, except w/a bit more bass) on 2 lengthy occasions (1st w/the uncomfortable stock pads; 2nd w/more comfortable after-market pads), Both times I tried the Elear w/4 solid state amps (V281; Lake People G109-A; LC v2; M Stage Matrix HPA-1). It sounded overly dynamic, almost insistent on all my amps, with slight variations. While I admired this or that portion of the frequency range or sound signature on this or that music cut, overall it was an ear- and brain-tiring exprience.
> 
> (apologies to those who love the Elear/Elex...I just couldn't relax w/this sonic profile)
> 
> So the fact that an Elex sounded bright w/LP does not suggest to me any automatic characterization of the sound of the LP itself.


"ear- and brain tiring" resembles my experience, with the exception that I did not listen long enough with the Elex to enter the zone of ear and brain fatigue


----------



## Serge Bernamej

sahmen said:


> "ear- and brain tiring" resembles my experience, with the exception that I did not listen long enough with the Elex to enter the zone of ear and brain fatigue


You find the LP fatiguing ?


----------



## sahmen

Serge Bernamej said:


> You find the LP fatiguing ?



No, the Focal Elex headphone, not the LP.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

sahmen said:


> No, the Focal Elex headphone, not the LP.


Thanks for clearing that up !!


----------



## tommyk

tommyk said:


> I envy all of you guys, who... resisted the temptation today. Such superhuman willpower...


For all these who missed or resisted last Wednesday: ebay is running a Cyber Monday flash discount right now. It is 10% and is from 3PM to 7P PST. Coupon code *PCYBERDAY*


----------



## Guidostrunk

Be careful with the bakelite savers on ebay. They're not made very well, and people have ruined gear with them. Tubemonger savers are the best. Here's a link to their site. Give them a few days to re-stock. Also, if you guys are going to be rolling tubes. Check out the Lyr rollers thread for all the rolling info you'll ever need. 
Cheers
https://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm



LCMusicLover said:


> Anybody???


----------



## franz12

LCMusicLover said:


> LP and Gold Lions are both arriving today -- 2 days early.  Hmmm...what to do for fun this evening
> 
> And which hp to plug in first?



Great! Mine is due tomorrow. Looking forward to hearing impressions with your gears.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Guidostrunk said:


> Be careful with the bakelite savers on ebay. They're not made very well, and people have ruined gear with them. Tubemonger savers are the best. Here's a link to their site. Give them a few days to re-stock. Also, if you guys are going to be rolling tubes. Check out the Lyr rollers thread for all the rolling info you'll ever need.
> Cheers
> https://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm


Thanks for the warning.  Unfortunately, the Tubemonger savers you pointed me at are currently 'Out of Stock'.  I signed up for 'back in stock' notification.


----------



## rockytopwiz

LCMusicLover said:


> Thanks for the warning.  Unfortunately, the Tubemonger savers you pointed me at are currently 'Out of Stock'.  I signed up for 'back in stock' notification.


 cheers fellas

First time hearing of these savers, but I'm now signed up for a notification as well.  Thanks for informing me.


----------



## Guidostrunk

No problem folks. Been rolling tubes for 4 years now. They're the best savers hands down. They are more money , but you get what you pay for. 

Also, like I said. Any info on tubes for your amp. The Lyr thread is a wealth of information. 
I subscribed to this thread because I'm interested in this amp and will be purchasing one after I see some comparisons to amps like Lyr2 ,MJ2 ...etc. 
Looks solidly built.


----------



## abvolt

you can also find some nice ceramic savers on ebay that's where I got most of mine work & look great..


----------



## KaiserTK

For those that experience treble brightness:

The first 10hrs or so I also thought the LP was overly bright and a bit sibilant as well. But around 20+hrs in the treble definitely started to calm down, and it sounds great even out of the HD800S!

Also, just as the user manual and Alex has stated, the Balanced Out makes a pretty substantial difference. It reminds me of how the MJ2 SE Out sounded compared to the Bal Out.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

KaiserTK said:


> For those that experience treble brightness:
> 
> The first 10hrs or so I also thought the LP was overly bright and a bit sibilant as well. But around 20+hrs in the treble definitely started to calm down, and it sounds great even out of the HD800S!
> 
> Also, just as the user manual and Alex has stated, the Balanced Out makes a pretty substantial difference. It reminds me of how the MJ2 SE Out sounded compared to the Bal Out.


I don’t believe that burn in will transform a bright sound into a warm one. The amp is either bright, neutral or warmish. No burn-in changes that.


----------



## rockytopwiz

Serge Bernamej said:


> I don’t believe that burn in will transform a bright sound into a warm one. The amp is either bright, neutral or warmish. No burn-in changes that.



I don't think it's bright and I am treble sensitive.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

rockytopwiz said:


> I don't think it's bright and I am treble sensitive.


Thanks for reassuring me !


----------



## Guidostrunk

Tubes do. Tubes need burn in to sound their best. As far as components go I'm not certain. Me personally have never noticed differences with ss amps.


----------



## KaiserTK

Serge Bernamej said:


> I don’t believe that burn in will transform a bright sound into a warm one. The amp is either bright, neutral or warmish. No burn-in changes that.



My experience with the CTH at least was that it was overly warm at first, but now it’s much brighter sounding.

But my wording was poor. I actually meant excessive treble energy (such as sibilance) instead of brightness. I’m quite treble sensitive myself.


----------



## Wes S (Nov 27, 2018)

abvolt said:


> you can also find some nice ceramic savers on ebay that's where I got most of mine work & look great..


Me too, and lots of others on the forum do as well, with success.


----------



## Jim N

I have over 200 hours on the LP and over 100 on the Genalex Gold Lion tubes and am very pleased with this amp. Only niggle is the amount of gain with the Elex (which I like and do not find fatiguing at all as I can listen to them for a couple of hours straight). 

I am thinking of using RCA in-line attenuators and still running balanced out to give me the ability to better lock in the volume. I don't listen at loud volumes and mainly enjoy jazz or jazz fusion CD's from the 80's and 90's, which are mastered at a lower volume.


----------



## hemtmaker

There is a bit of channel imbalance at very low volume, that’s normal right?


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Jim N said:


> I have over 200 hours on the LP and over 100 on the Genalex Gold Lion tubes and am very pleased with this amp. Only niggle is the amount of gain with the Elex (which I like and do not find fatiguing at all as I can listen to them for a couple of hours straight).
> 
> I am thinking of using RCA in-line attenuators and still running balanced out to give me the ability to better lock in the volume. I don't listen at loud volumes and mainly enjoy jazz or jazz fusion CD's from the 80's and 90's, which are mastered at a lower volume.



Elex is lovely on LP again now that I figured out that the AVR was filtering the dynamics away. For the gain level, check your DAC output level - my AGD R2R-R1 has up to 20V XLR, using my NFB1-AMP as a preamp brings it down to the 1-5V range and much more usable range in the LP volume pot. However, the AGD unit is active. i will be running a Schiit Freya preamp in passive mode when it gets here. There is a post a few pages back on another balanced 100% passive pre amp option as well


----------



## llcook51 (Nov 27, 2018)

Guidostrunk said:


> Be careful with the bakelite savers on ebay. They're not made very well, and people have ruined gear with them. Tubemonger savers are the best. Here's a link to their site. Give them a few days to re-stock. Also, if you guys are going to be rolling tubes. Check out the Lyr rollers thread for all the rolling info you'll ever need.
> Cheers
> https://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm


Great advice. Thanks.
I started out with the Lyr and can verify that there is a wealth of information in that thread regarding tube rolling.
Salute.


----------



## Inoculator

After reading every bit of information on this (and other OTL/hybrid amps in my budget over the last few weeks), I think this is the upgrade I want to go for. Originally was looking for a tube/hybrid to go along side my Jotunheim, but thinking this will be an outright replacement. I am pretty treble sensitive, so am ready to ditch the glare of the Jotunheim. I primarily listen to vinyl, hoping this ends up being a good compliment to my setup. Glad I already have a SYS in my chain to deal with no gain settings (actually usually have to dial the sys down to 50-75% for the Jotunheim already). I think it will be a good compliment for my current headphones (HD 6XX, HD 58X, Monoprice 1060c with open back grills), and should future proof me for a TOTL purchase I am budgeting for next year (probably HD 800/HD 800s).

Anyone have any experience ording from Rakuten, in pactiulcar monoprice items available there? I ask because they are running a 20% back in their "Super Points" right now, which will translate to almost $140 back in points for future purchases. Not as good as a discount, but softens the blow of having to pay sales tax in WA. Is the Monoprice return/warraty policy still in place when ordered via rakuten? 

Any help/advice is appreciated.


----------



## Mudshark

Inoculator said:


> I am pretty treble sensitive, so am ready to ditch the glare of the Jotunheim.



What glare?  

Jotunheim = No glare in my system.

My LP is scheduled to arrive tomorrow.  Maybe the Jot will sound glary by comparison?


----------



## heliosphann

Mudshark said:


> What glare?
> 
> Jotunheim = No glare in my system.
> 
> My LP is scheduled to arrive tomorrow.  Maybe the Jot will sound glary by comparison?



How old is your Jot? There was a silent revision that address the glare/treble issues.


----------



## Inoculator (Nov 27, 2018)

Mudshark said:


> What glare?
> 
> Jotunheim = No glare in my system.
> 
> My LP is scheduled to arrive tomorrow.  Maybe the Jot will sound glary by comparison?



I would agree the "glare" issues with Jotunheim are overstated, but I can find the high end to be shouty/sterile for my tastes. Really was never a big issue with my Sennheisers, but can make the 1060c planars pretty artificial/fatiguing (granted the frequency response/presentation of the 1060cs could be contributing as well).

Either way, looking to move to something a bit more musical and laid back compared to the Schiit sound. Also wanting to move to something that may better tame the treble of HD800/s if I go that route.


----------



## Mudshark (Nov 27, 2018)

@heliosphann  Interesting, thanks, I did not know that.  I bought my Jot in late August 2016, which IIRC was around the time of the launch.


----------



## heliosphann

Mudshark said:


> @heliosphann  Interesting, thanks, I did not know that.  I bought my Jot in late August 2016, which IIRC was around the time of the launch.



I have not verified this personally myself, but it has been reported by other users. I had a fairly new Jot that was made after the "revision" and I didn't find any glare issues.


----------



## Mudshark

The Jot is so resolving that it could reveal 'glare' coming from upstream components such as a DAC and/or DAC-to-Jot interconnects.  Also, I imagine the Jot could make certain cans sound glary.  I listen primarily to the Focal Clear, Audeze LCD-X and LCD-2F via my Jot.  I have never noticed any glare with any of those cans.


----------



## Inoculator

Mudshark said:


> The Jot is so resolving that it could reveal 'glare' coming from upstream components such as a DAC and/or DAC-to-Jot interconnects.  Also, I imagine the Jot could make certain cans sound glary.  I listen primarily to the Focal Clear, Audeze LCD-X and LCD-2F via my Jot.  I have never noticed any glare with any of those cans.



Interested to hear your thoughts on LP vs Jot when you get it tomorrow! I am probably going to pull the trigger in the next 24 hours either way to get that 20% back from rakuten, but will certainly be comparing the amps side-by-side before I sell the Jot.


----------



## Mudshark (Nov 27, 2018)

After I ordered the LP, I bought a Corpse Cable Gravedigger balanced headphone cable so I could try my LCD-X and LCD-2F using the LP's balanced output.  The Corpse arrived last night.  Right out of the box, it is so good with the LCD-X on the Jot's balanced output that I was almost second-guessing my decision to order the LP!  Seriously, I will plan to post comments on LP vs. Jot, but it probably won't be until sometime next week at the earliest.


----------



## spyder1

Mudshark said:


> Corpse Cable Gravedigger



Gravedigger, by Cardas Cable


----------



## Inoculator

Mudshark said:


> After I ordered the LP, I bought a Corpse Cable Gravedigger balanced headphone cable so I could try my LCD-X and LCD-2F using the LP's balanced output.  The Corpse arrived last night.  Right out of the box, it is so good with the LCD-X on the Jot's balanced output that I was almost second-guessing my decision to order the LP!  Seriously, I will plan to post comments on LP vs. Jot, but it probably won't be until sometime next week at the earliest.



Balanced sounds so much better out of the Jot, led to me either having cables or adapters for all my headphones to use XLR. That is part of the reason the LP appeals to me so much over something like the Lyr 3, committed to XLR now. If the LP had a gain switch and balanced pre-outs it would be perfect for me from a connections/compatibility standpoint. Going to just have to live with that tradeoff if I enjoy the sound of this as much as I anticipate.


----------



## NEXTLEVEL5

Balanced pre-outs indeed would have been nice.


----------



## cardeli22

I have the Beyerdynamic 1990s, seeing as these can only be single ended (outside of modding them), is it still worth it for me to get the LP?


----------



## abvolt

What amp do you @cardeli22 currently use ?


----------



## cardeli22

abvolt said:


> What amp do you @cardeli22 currently use ?


IFI micro BL


----------



## abvolt

That's a nice amp, I'll say you'll enjoy the cavalli LP I listened to ifi black a lot my son owns one, the cavalli amps sound so nice I plan on getting the LP soon..


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Ok so I’m a total ignorant with tubee. Never had any experience, zero.
For the Iquid Platinum can somebody confirm that this is the best tubes to get :
https://www.thetubestore.com/genalex-gold-lion-ecc83-b759


----------



## heliosphann

Well, not necessarily the "best", but some people seem to like them here. 

And these are the ones you want: https://www.thetubestore.com/genalex-gold-lion-e88cc-6922


----------



## Serge Bernamej

heliosphann said:


> Well, not necessarily the "best", but some people seem to like them here.
> 
> And these are the ones you want: https://www.thetubestore.com/genalex-gold-lion-e88cc-6922


Thank you very very much my friend !!!


----------



## rlawli

Serge Bernamej said:


> Thank you very very much my friend !!!



Which tube is not at all the same as the ECC83 you first mentioned. BTW, heliosphann is correct.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

rlawli said:


> Which tube is not at all the same as the ECC83 you first mentioned. BTW, heliosphann is correct.


Ok so I guess these tubes would also work :
https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649478254-vintage-westinghouse-tubes-6922e88cc-pair/

?

And if yes, your opinion?
Thanks !


----------



## rlawli

Serge Bernamej said:


> Ok so I guess these tubes would also work :
> https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649478254-vintage-westinghouse-tubes-6922e88cc-pair/
> 
> ?
> ...



Any 6922 or E88CC tube should work. The listing may well be right but I can't give you an opinion on the Westinghouse tubes since haven't heard them.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Serge Bernamej said:


> Ok so I’m a total ignorant with tubee. Never had any experience, zero.
> For the Iquid Platinum can somebody confirm that this is the best tubes to get :
> https://www.thetubestore.com/genalex-gold-lion-ecc83-b759


I bought these:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Genalex-Pl...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

BTW, as @heliosphann indicated, ECC83 is not a direct replacement for 6922.  They have different specs (voltages).


----------



## Serge Bernamej

rlawli said:


> Any 6922 or E88CC tube should work. The listing may well be right but I can't give you an opinion on the Westinghouse tubes since haven't heard them.


Ok got it !!!!!!
So only 6922 or E88CC (whatever it stands for) will work with the LP ? That’s fun!!! We can experiment...as long as it says 6922 or E88CC.


----------



## Hansotek (Nov 29, 2018)

Serge Bernamej said:


> Ok so I guess these tubes would also work :
> https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649478254-vintage-westinghouse-tubes-6922e88cc-pair/
> 
> ?
> ...



There are lots of 6922 equivalents 6922, 7308, 6DJ8, 6N23P, E88CC, ECC88, E188CC.

You should go read this thread, or at least the original post: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/692...922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes.761078/

The Schiit Lyr tube rolling thread is also a good resource, as @Guidostrunk mentioned the other day : https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/

The best ones I've rolled, at least for my taste, are the '75 "Holy Grail" Reflektor 6n23Ps (my preferred tube on the Liquid Crimson and CTH) and some '62 Dario Miniwatts (essentially Philips Miniwatts, manufactured by Philips in Harleen, Holland - this was a year or two before the Miniwatt took on the Philips branding).


----------



## rlawli

LCMusicLover said:


> I bought these:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Genalex-Platinum-Matched-PAIR-NEW-Gold-Lion-6922-6DJ8-ECC88-tubes-Gold-Pins/161992053786?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
> 
> BTW, as @heliosphann indicated, ECC83 is not a direct replacement for 6922.  They have different specs (voltages).



The E88CC is the European name for the U.S. 6922. The ECC83 is the European name for a 12AX7. I'd use only an E88CC or a 6922.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Serge Bernamej said:


> Ok got it !!!!!!
> So only 6922 or E88CC (whatever it stands for) will work with the LP ? That’s fun!!! We can experiment...as long as it says 6922 or E88CC.


Helpful* links:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/692...922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes.761078/
https://tubedepot.com/tube-comparison-tool (expand 'Pre-amp tube' then expand '6922')
https://www.tubesforamps.com/best-6dj8-review
https://wallofsound.ca/audioreviews/vacuum-tube-shootout-6dj8-types-part-1/
https://wallofsound.ca/audioreviews/vacuum-tube-shootout-6dj8-types-part-2/
https://www.thetubestore.com/preamp-tubes/6922-e88cc-tube-types

* Either helpful because it allows you to be selective in choosing which tubes to try rolling (and pay for), or unhelpful because you end up trying every tube listed on any of those pages and you have to declare bankruptcy


----------



## Serge Bernamej

LCMusicLover said:


> Helpful* links:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/692...922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes.761078/
> https://tubedepot.com/tube-comparison-tool (expand 'Pre-amp tube' then expand '6922')
> ...


Haha !!! Thank you all !!! Really !!! Great community  !!


----------



## rlawli

Serge Bernamej said:


> Haha !!! Thank you all !!! Really !!! Great community  !!



Has anyone actually verified the LP works with 6DJ8's? I know you can safely substitute a 6922 for a 6DJ8 but the converse is not always true.


----------



## llcook51

heliosphann said:


> Well, not necessarily the "best", but some people seem to like them here.
> 
> And these are the ones you want: https://www.thetubestore.com/genalex-gold-lion-e88cc-6922


Agreed. I use the Gold Lions and am well-pleased.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

llcook51 said:


> Agreed. I use the Gold Lions and am well-pleased.[/QUOTE\
> A lot better than stock tubes ? Are you still pleased even with stock tubes ?


----------



## Guidostrunk (Nov 29, 2018)

I'm currently using a Cavalli MCTH. I'm using a 6922 to 12a*7 adapter. These variants pretty much make the 6922 variants obsolete imo. I've been through just about every 6922/E88cc/CCa there is, and they just don't compete. Also, the 12a*7 variants are cheaper.
To put it in perspective.
Late 50's Valvo CCa pinched waist = $400 to $600 a pair.
Late 50's Valvo 6201 pinched waist= half the price or less a pair.


rlawli said:


> The E88CC is the European name for the U.S. 6922. The ECC83 is the European name for a 12AX7. I'd use only an E88CC or a 6922.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Do we know what the input impedance of this amp is?  I don't see it on the specs page. Or is this:


> IMD CCIF w/47R Load Balanced Input


saying 47K Ohms?

Thanks


----------



## atomicbob

LCMusicLover said:


> Do we know what the input impedance of this amp is?  I don't see it on the specs page. Or is this:
> 
> saying 47K Ohms?
> 
> Thanks


Please see this post in this thread:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...-by-alex-cavalli.876406/page-41#post-14609926


----------



## Guidostrunk

Good to see you @atomicbob! Hope all is well.


----------



## franz12

Does anyone have any recommendation for tubes that are mid-centric?


----------



## Guidostrunk (Nov 29, 2018)

E188cc or CCa , from Heerlen Holland. Late 50's and very early 60's. Check with @TK16 @AuditoryCanvas , or @kolkoo to see what they have in stock. You won't find a better or more honest deal. 

Cheers


franz12 said:


> Does anyone have any recommendation for tubes that are mid-centric?


----------



## DRHamp

rlawli said:


> Has anyone actually verified the LP works with 6DJ8's? I know you can safely substitute a 6922 for a 6DJ8 but the converse is not always true.



I'm currently running a matched pair of 1964 Tesla Dome Top ECC88/6DJ8.  They are running well and have great clarity and detail.
Going forward, I will be trying other variants of the 6922 but I am very happy with this pair in the LP.


----------



## sahmen

So what good tube socket savers are ideally usable with the LP?  I want to see examples of what people are currently using so that I can get myself a pair.  Sometimes I experience seating issues with the Genalex Gold Tubes, which I would like to address with the socket savers.


----------



## Phantaminum

sahmen said:


> So what good tube socket savers are ideally usable with the LP?  I want to see examples of what people are currently using so that I can get myself a pair.  Sometimes I experience seating issues with the Genalex Gold Tubes, which I would like to address with the socket savers.



Personally Tube Monger socket savers are great. Matter of fact, at one point one of my socket savers gave out and they were willing to replace it for free. I really need to get around to doing that.


----------



## sahmen

Phantaminum said:


> Personally Tube Monger socket savers are great. Matter of fact, at one point one of my socket savers gave out and they were willing to replace it for free. I really need to get around to doing that.


If you're referring to these, they seem to be out of stock:

https://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NOVIB-MCMURDO

They're selling a version with center screws on e-bay, but those do not look appropriate for the LP, unless I am mistaken :

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOVIB-Sock...h=item2595ff7f81:g:oLIAAOSw-jhUILxM:rk:7:pf:0


----------



## Phantaminum

sahmen said:


> If you're referring to these, they seem to be out of stock:
> 
> https://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NOVIB-MCMURDO
> 
> ...



Won't be able to use the ones with the center screw unfortunately. Maybe someone else has a recommendation for another well built socket saver?


----------



## snip3r77

A lot of users with new cellphones and screen protector issues. 

Look how many tubes will you be changing? I think most will change their amps within 3 to 5 years. Imho , Just use it as it meant to be.


----------



## Guidostrunk

You'd be surprised how many tubes you'll swap out of your amp when you go down that rabbit hole lol. I'd definitely wait for tubemonger to get more stock in. Maybe @cv4109 can chime in regarding their stock.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Looks like they haven't been on their headfi account in some time. Send them an email. They respond pretty quickly


----------



## Guidostrunk

Maybe Jeremy at Garage1217.com can make some savers. He makes adapters.


----------



## sahmen (Dec 3, 2018)

For me, it is not a matter of the number of tubes I intend to roll... I am not a habitual tube-roller; this is actually the first amp I have got which requires any tubes at all.  I have no plans to delve too deeply into the practice of tube swapping any time soon.  My concern is first and famous to keep any two i am currently using properly seated and stable all the time, as the ones I have keep coming unseated with the slightest touches or movement of the LP. When seatings and unseatings become too frequent, they could mess up the sockets, and the actual number of tubes with which one is doing all that fiddling matters a lot less than the number and frequency of  insertions and re-insertions one attempts. I also expect the use of socket savers to make the alignment of pins and sockets much easier during seating attempts.


----------



## sahmen

Guidostrunk said:


> Maybe Jeremy at Garage1217.com can make some savers. He makes adapters.



That's interesting, as I have contacted him regarding this same subject through e-bay messages, this evening, actually.


----------



## DRHamp (Dec 3, 2018)

For those that do have interest in tube rolling (as mentioned before, a very deep rabbit hole)  I am currently running a pair of 1957 Foton 6N3P/2C51/5670 in the LP using the excellent and hiqh quality adapters from Garage1217.  The 2C51s sound awesome in the LP by the way and they are very inexpensive.  I highly recommend Jeremy's adapters if you should decide to step off into that hole.


----------



## Inoculator (Dec 3, 2018)

Received my Liquid Platinum today, and I am already in love. Need to finish burn-in and let the new toy bias wear off, but I am completely blown away so far. I appreciate that monoprice has this packaged like a premium product (tubes and power supply in nice printed boxes, amp itself in a Monolith branded cloth bag, etc), I just wish shipping/packing had been better as my actual box was pretty banged up on the outside from bouncing around inside the shipping box. I was one of the people on the fence about the general aesthetics of this amp, but I find it stunning in person. Feels and looks premium. Started  burn-in going with stock tubes following the included instructions (feeding it music for 100 hours at 10 o'clock on the dial with no headphone connected), but after a few hours got impatient and had to start listening.

I bought this expecting that it would feel like a minor upgrade to my Jotunheim, and I thought I would really have to nitpick to find the differences, but this upgrade feels almost as monumental as when I went from Creative x-fi to Jotunheim. I realize this is hyperbolic, and it is more that this particular amp is just checking my personal boxes/preferences, but I am experiencing that same sort of awe I went through when first jumping into audiophile gear.

There are some tradeoffs, it certainly is not as fast as the Jotunheim, but the gooey, laid-back sound I am getting is more my speed and I don't feel like I am sacrificing any detail. I need to test, but I do feel like in really busy/congested passages the Jotunheim may have had the edge on separation. Back to the positives, the bass impact and clarity I am experiencing with the HD 6XXs (all I have tried so far) is significantly increased with the LP. Additionally, the mids are forward, layered, musical and just feel alive/natural. I am thinking I may be buying into the Cavalli sound I have always heard about.

If I had to summarize my first impressions of the sounds in one word it would be* LUSH.* More to share as I get to spend more time with the LP.

EDIT: Bonus burn-in shot.


----------



## Rattle

I've had mine since Friday, about 20 hours so far on it. All I can say is WET... The liquid mids are real.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Keep your impressions coming fellas ! I have not read good enough impressions yet !


----------



## rockytopwiz

Inoculator said:


> Received my Liquid Platinum today, and I am already in love. Need to finish burn-in and let the new toy bias wear off, but I am completely blown away so far. I appreciate that monoprice has this packaged like a premium product (tubes and power supply in nice printed boxes, amp itself in a Monolith branded cloth bag, etc), I just wish shipping/packing had been better as my actual box was pretty banged up on the outside from bouncing around inside the shipping box. I was one of the people on the fence about the general aesthetics of this amp, but I find it stunning in person. Feels and looks premium. Started  burn-in going with stock tubes following the included instructions (feeding it music for 100 hours at 10 o'clock on the dial with no headphone connected), but after a few hours got impatient and had to start listening.
> 
> I bought this expecting that it would feel like a minor upgrade to my Jotunheim, and I thought I would really have to nitpick to find the differences, but this upgrade feels almost as monumental as when I went from Creative x-fi to Jotunheim. I realize this is hyperbolic, and it is more that this particular amp is just checking my personal boxes/preferences, but I am experiencing that same sort of awe I went through when first jumping into audiophile gear.
> 
> ...



Wonderfully written, I agree that this has been a significant upgrade for me as well.

The liquidity combined with speed and detail leaves me appreciating what a good tube hybrid like this can do.  

That stinks your box was beat up, was the amp itself in good shape?  I had reported earlier that they had started including packing air pockets with the amp to help prevent that from happening, was that not in yours?  

Thanks for your contribution, I'm enjoying reading others perspective on this little beaut.  I am reaching the 100 hour mark for burn in and will share more of my thoughts soon.  Previously I was an amp skeptic after spending a lot of money on a Hdva600 to not notice any special sauce or what I deemed noticable improvements to my chain.  Now with the LP I am with you in awe and don't see this thing going anywhere any time soon.


----------



## cv4109

Guidostrunk said:


> You'd be surprised how many tubes you'll swap out of your amp when you go down that rabbit hole lol. I'd definitely wait for tubemonger to get more stock in. Maybe @cv4109 can chime in regarding their stock.



Apologies to all for being out of stock on our most popular socket saver https://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm

We have had a small glitch in the manufacturing which we are in the process of rectifying. We should have these back in stock hopefully in this month. Good news is that we have parts for 3000+ units.

Cheers!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hands down the best savers. Thanks for replying to the thread. You guys are top notch!


----------



## cv4109

Guidostrunk said:


> Hands down the best savers. Thanks for replying to the thread. You guys are top notch!



Thank you for kind words. Appreciate our loyal customer base.


----------



## cv4109

Guidostrunk said:


> Hands down the best savers. Thanks for replying to the thread. You guys are top notch!



Thank you for kind words. Appreciate our loyal customer base.


----------



## fortunate son

Guidostrunk said:


> Hands down the best savers. Thanks for replying to the thread. You guys are top notch!


+ 1


----------



## DRHamp

My LP powered itself down mid-morning and I have been unable to power it back on.  I have verified that I'm getting 36.5V out of the power brick.  Anyone else experienced anything like this?
I have put in a call to Monoprice support.


----------



## BearlyPizza (Dec 4, 2018)

DRHamp said:


> My LP powered itself down mid-morning and I have been unable to power it back on.  I have verified that I'm getting 36.5V out of the power brick.  Anyone else experienced anything like this?
> I have put in a call to Monoprice support.




I actually had something that might be like this. One day, I tried turning my LP on and it wouldn't turn on! no lights, no tube glow or sound. Currently waiting on my replacement T_T  How many hours did you have on it? I was probably at 150 hrs


----------



## Rattle

That's a drag that your LPs died. It's not heat related is it ? I have mine out in the open and it probably runs a little cooler than other tube amps I've had. Hope it's resolved easily for you guys. I'd be bummed if mine died.


----------



## BearlyPizza

Rattle said:


> That's a drag that your LPs died. It's not heat related is it ? I have mine out in the open and it probably runs a little cooler than other tube amps I've had. Hope it's resolved easily for you guys. I'd be bummed if mine died.



Yeah, I was pretty sad when mines died. I was really loving it! I don't know if it was heat related. Mines was on top of my desk with lots of airflow and ran only warm.


----------



## rockytopwiz

Wow, this is no good.  Sorry guys, please keep us updated.


----------



## runeight

I have sent each of you gents a PM.


----------



## Schwibbles

Mine hasn't died but I did have a tube go out within the first 10 minutes of listening which caused the amp to revert back to it's "safe" mode. I contacted Monoprice and they'll hopefully get me some new ones. They're being very slow about it. Currently rocking some Amperex tubes while I'm waiting and it's working great.

And the second thing isn't so much of an issue as it is an annoyance, but I have a little play in the volume knob. I don't normally expect to see this in an amp at this price point. Has anyone else experienced this?

Overall, really happy with the sound. Truly an excellent pairing with the Aeon Flow Closed.


----------



## Inoculator (Dec 4, 2018)

Schwibbles said:


> Mine hasn't died but I did have a tube go out within the first 10 minutes of listening which caused the amp to revert back to it's "safe" mode. I contacted Monoprice and they'll hopefully get me some new ones. They're being very slow about it. Currently rocking some Amperex tubes while I'm waiting and it's working great.
> 
> And the second thing isn't so much of an issue as it is an annoyance, but I have a little play in the volume knob. I don't normally expect to see this in an amp at this price point. Has anyone else experienced this?
> 
> Overall, really happy with the sound. Truly an excellent pairing with the Aeon Flow Closed.



My knob is silky smooth so far. Not much resistance but incredibly smooth/consistent.

At first I read your comment as a concern about the amount of gain/volume on the knob, for that I want to reiterate for those considering the LP... You must have something in your chain before the LP to tame the volume. With the HD 6XXs (balanced) and the Schiit SYS at 50% fed by the Mimby I hit the range of my preferred listening levels at 9 o'clock on the volume knob.


----------



## Schwibbles

Inoculator said:


> My knob is silky smooth so far. Not much resistance but incredibly smooth/consistent.
> 
> At first I read your comment as a concern about the amount of gain/volume on the knob, for that I want to reiterate for those considering the LP... You must have something in your chain before the LP to tame the volume. With the HD 6XXs (balanced) and the Schiit SYS at 50% fed by the Mimby I hit the start of the range of my preferred listening volumes at 9 o'clock on the volume knob.



Mine is very smooth as well. Just has that little bit of play when changing from increasing volume to decreasing, or the other way around. 

If there's ever another version of the Platinum, it definitely needs a gain switch. I'm around 9 o'clock or less for every one of my headphones. Above that is very loud.Thankfully, I can tame it with the 1541.


----------



## franz12

Inoculator said:


> My knob is silky smooth so far. Not much resistance but incredibly smooth/consistent.
> 
> At first I read your comment as a concern about the amount of gain/volume on the knob, for that I want to reiterate for those considering the LP... You must have something in your chain before the LP to tame the volume. With the HD 6XXs (balanced) and the Schiit SYS at 50% fed by the Mimby I hit the range of my preferred listening levels at 9 o'clock on the volume knob.



Mine is not smooth at all. I felt strange but didn't care about it so far. But now I have a concern about this issue.

At this moment, I have both liquid spark and liquid platinum. Strangely, the liquid spark has the silky smooth volume knob, but the volume knob on the Platinum is obviously more resistant and bit stiff.


----------



## Mudshark (Dec 4, 2018)

I powered up my LP for the first time today and got a scare.  When I connected the AC power cable lead to the LP, I saw a yellow/orange electrical spark at the power connection jack on the LP.  The spark was approximately one-quarter inch in length.  The LED on the front of the amp came on as red but never turned white.  I figured the amp was cooked.  I called MonoPrice tech support.  They were ready to swap me a new LP.  While I was still on the phone with tech support, I powered off the amp, disconnected the power lead, and removed the tubes to inspect them.  The tubes appeared normal to the naked eye.  I plugged everything back in and this time the LP worked properly . . . there were no sparks, and the red LED turned white in a timely fashion.  The amp has now been powered up for nine consecutive hours without issue.  At all times, the LP PSU was plugged into a Bryston BIT20 Power Conditioner with surge protection, so I am confident my AC current is not the culprit.  Initially, I was prepared to look past the electrical spark thing as an isolated incident, but reading about the wonky power-related issues some others are experiencing, I am considering returning the LP to MonoPrice for a refund.


----------



## atomicbob

The only way to have drawn a spark as described would require the Liquid Platinum power switch to have been in the On position while connecting the power cable to the LP power inlet with the SMPS AC power connected. That is exactly what should not be done, and should be in the user manual. The Liquid Platinum is a very high performance precision audio device, fully balanced and similar to one of the all time great hybrid designs, Liquid Crimson. For those contemplating this amp, please follow user manual instructions carefully. The auditory rewards are worth the effort.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

atomicbob said:


> The only way to have drawn a spark as described would require the Liquid Platinum power switch to have been in the On position while connecting the power cable to the LP power inlet with the SMPS AC power connected. That is exactly what should not be done, and should be in the user manual. The Liquid Platinum is a very high performance precision audio device, fully balanced and similar to one of the all time great hybrid designs, Liquid Crimson. For those contemplating this amp, please follow user manual instructions carefully. The auditory rewards are worth the effort.


Thank you for putting things straight. We don’t need to make a false negative publicity here.


----------



## Mudshark

Thanks, but the LP power button was in the OFF position when I connected the PSU power lead to the back of the LP.  I also observed a spark and an audible static noise when I plugged the wallwart into my Bryston power conditioner.  This was BEFORE connecting the power lead to the LP (I read the manual 2x before doing anything).  I have connected countless power cables to the Bryston and never had a spark/noise like that at the AC receptacle before.  It appears to me that the sparking issues I experienced are related to the PSU as opposed to the LP amp itself.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Anybody can comment on the LP oaired with the Teac UD 501 dac ?
Other option would be the Cayin idac-6 with LP.


----------



## atomicbob (Dec 5, 2018)

I guess there is an assumption that common knowledge would have all connections to an audio component be made BEFORE connecting external power supply to AC mains. The manual probably needs a note that states this explicitly and then a step between 2 and 3 under Amplifier Operation where SMPS is then connected to AC mains, AFTER having been connected to Liquid Platinum with the Power Switch in the OFF position. No spark can occur during connection to the amp if the AC mains are not connected.

A spark may occur with ANY SMPS power supply while connecting to AC mains. I've seen this with plenty of SMPS tested in my lab.


----------



## DRHamp

For those thinking about using socket savers in the LP, I highly recommend you wait until the higher quality savers mentioned earlier in this thread are available.  Why? Once you put the socket savers in, they are extremely difficult to remove.  I'm speaking from experience.


----------



## Hansotek

Serge Bernamej said:


> Anybody can comment on the LP oaired with the Teac UD 501 dac ?
> Other option would be the Cayin idac-6 with LP.



I haven’t heard the Teac, but the iDAC-6 is a really nice piece. I’ve heard it a few times with the HA300, which is extremely resolving, and it definitely holds up with super high end gear.


----------



## KaiserTK

Got a replacement unit from Monoprice within a week. Absolutely no issues so far.

I’m enjoying the SE input more than the Bal input (SE is louder from the Gungnir MB), probably because I’m using different brand cables.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Yep, it worked!

What worked you say? Pontus ==> LP/Gold Lions ==> Lazuli Ref ==> Utopia/Elex pads

Utopia bass cannons 

Well, not really, but very satisfying bass:  'Friend of the Devil' from 'Dead Set', 'Thousand Year Prayer' from 'Open Road', 'Calling' from 'No One Built this Moment', 'Rescue' from 'West'.

Each piece of the chain helped.  LP was the last bit to fall into place -- 100+ hrs on amp ~50 on tubes.

Best part is still tons of detail, same small, precise stage, great vocal production (Lucinda's vocal inflections on 'Rescue').

I suspect there are those who would say that it's no longer a Utopia, but who cares!?!  Loving the sound!

BTW, 'West' is a great album.  Highly recommended!


----------



## canali

atomicbob said:


> The only way to have drawn a spark as described would require the Liquid Platinum power switch to have been in the On position while connecting the power cable to the LP power inlet with the SMPS AC power connected. That is exactly what should not be done, and should be in the user manual. The Liquid Platinum is a very high performance precision audio device, fully balanced and similar to one of the all time great hybrid designs, Liquid Crimson. For those contemplating this amp, please follow user manual instructions carefully. The auditory rewards are worth the effort.



cavelli was on the SABF forum discussing this issue. i can't  link it as it'll be removed (stupid policy!)


----------



## runeight

Here's the LPS post that I made elsewhere. If you are using an LPS please pay attention.

I in original post I referenced some measurements made by AtomicBob, also posted elsewhere.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Original Post)

I have been thinking on the use of LPSs.

Keep in mind that the Platinum was carefully engineered to reduce a really good single ended Liquid Crimson amp to a fully balanced Liquid Crimson (Platinum) in a much smaller size and at a much more affordable cost. What of this is important here is that all aspects of the Platinum design, including the SMPS power supply, all work together to accomplish this. The characteristics of the SMPS are part of the design.

Part of its behavior is its current limiting when over loaded. This overloading happens at turn on for a very brief period of time and the SMPS does its thing by limiting the current. The power circuit in the Platinum is expecting this to happen.

Using an LPS that does not current limit or has huge capacitors at its output or can otherwise dump a lot of current into the DC jack is definitely a RISK. It is likely out of the design envelope of the power management portion of the amp.

Though I am not Monoprice I have to recommend that you don't use LPSs with this amp and that you do stick with the supplied SMPS.

It is designed to perform extremely well with this supply. 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I want to add to this, that the Platinum was tested with its SMPS including inserting and removing DC plug and AC plug when the power switch was both on and off. Power switch off is the recommended procedure because of the delay timings inherent to the amp. But if you accidentally forget the position of the switch, no damage was done in any combination of plugging/unplugging and/or turning on/off.

Even if you use the LPS in preferred on/off sequence, if you don't know how it is behaving on the startup shutdown transients you are taking risk outside of warranty. See other forum to find AtomicBob's excellent measurements on this part of the system.

Otherwise, it sounds like you all are really enjoying this amp. That was goal.


----------



## LCMusicLover

LCMusicLover said:


> Yep, it worked!
> 
> What worked you say? Pontus ==> LP/Gold Lions ==> Lazuli Ref ==> Utopia/Elex pads
> 
> ...


After writing this, I decided to go back and try stock Utopia pads.  And...that works with LP!

As background, I really like my Utopia, but felt they were just a bit bright/demanding/fatiguing.  I played with a number of different changes to my chain -- Liquid Carbon X vs Bryston BHA-1 vs Violectric  v280, Denafrips Ares vs Pontus vs Oppo Sonica DAC, Dekoni Elite pads vs stock pads, Cardas Clear cable vs WyWires Platinum vs Lazuli Ref. None of these changes really satisfied me.

Finally found that MassDrop Elex pads made a difference which left me very happy.

Fast forward to arrival of the LP.  With stock tubes I was generally happy,  but didn't feel it helped that much with Utopia.  But now, after burn-in, and swapping for the Gold Lions, I'm thrilled with this combination.  And I'm very happy to go back to the stock pads. Now I'm gonna be seeing which cable works best, as I certainly don't need 3 top end cables for one Utopia.

Cheers!


----------



## atomicbob (Dec 6, 2018)

runeight said:


> Here's the LPS post that I made elsewhere. If you are using an LPS please pay attention.
> 
> I in original post I referenced some measurements made by AtomicBob, also posted elsewhere.
> *edit*


Measurements are here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monoprice-cavalli-liquid-platinum-technical-measurements.894843/

Warning about LPS and SMPS+NoiseNuke here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...ical-measurements.894843/page-2#post-14641335

This represents the most comprehensive set of measurements ever published on any amplifier.


----------



## Hansotek

LCMusicLover said:


> After writing this, I decided to go back and try stock Utopia pads.  And...that works with LP!
> 
> As background, I really like my Utopia, but felt they were just a bit bright/demanding/fatiguing.  I played with a number of different changes to my chain -- Liquid Carbon X vs Bryston BHA-1 vs Violectric  v280, Denafrips Ares vs Pontus vs Oppo Sonica DAC, Dekoni Elite pads vs stock pads, Cardas Clear cable vs WyWires Platinum vs Lazuli Ref. None of these changes really satisfied me.
> 
> ...



I always felt both the Liquid Crimson and the Lazuli Reference were huge game changers for the Utopia.  Very nice chain you’ve got going there.


----------



## Hansotek

atomicbob said:


> Measurements are going here (they are in progress as of this post - it takes hours to organize all this data into forum formats):
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monoprice-cavalli-liquid-platinum-technical-measurements.894843/
> 
> Warning about LPS and SMPS+NoiseNuke here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...ical-measurements.894843/page-2#post-14641335



Thanks for taking the time to do all of these measurements! This stuff is fantastic!


----------



## llcook51

Has anyone tried the LP with the Beyerdynamic T1 (2d Gen)? I was wondering how the LP pairs with a 600 ohm HP.
Thanks.


----------



## llcook51

atomicbob said:


> Measurements are here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monoprice-cavalli-liquid-platinum-technical-measurements.894843/
> 
> Warning about LPS and SMPS+NoiseNuke here:
> ...


Thanks for linking to the earlier posts.


----------



## LCMusicLover

LP is quite engaging with Auteur with Gold Lions as well.  Just as musical as with other amps, but with more bass presence and impact, and a bit more open stage:

NUC ==> SU-1 ==> Pontus ==> LP/Gold Lions ==> Silver Dragon ==> Blackwood Auteur



llcook51 said:


> Has anyone tried the LP with the Beyerdynamic T1 (2d Gen)? I was wondering how the LP pairs with a 600 ohm HP.
> Thanks.



Can't answer directly, but LP is very good with 300 Ohm Auteur (and 6xx).


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Happy to report that my LP is still going strong and sounding great with the Phillips SQ E188CC tubes made by Mullard.

I'm one of the guys running a customised LPS with the amp, no issues at all so far but I'm very careful with power up and power down sequencing. AtomicBob's warning and info in his posts earlier must be heeded! On my part, no particular reason to run it, save I had bought it while waiting for the amp and I may as well use it. To date, it's been running fine with the LPS for almost a month.


----------



## rockytopwiz

UsoppNoKami said:


> Happy to report that my LP is still going strong and sounding great with the Phillips SQ E188CC tubes made by Mullard.
> 
> I'm one of the guys running a customised LPS with the amp, no issues at all so far but I'm very careful with power up and power down sequencing. AtomicBob's warning and info in his posts earlier must be heeded! On my part, no particular reason to run it, save I had bought it while waiting for the amp and I may as well use it. To date, it's been running fine with the LPS for almost a month.



How does your 2c scale?  Do you hear pretty significant differences between you different amps?  Which headphone of yours would you say scales the most?

Also if I could get a blood sample, I'll send you over the file for my new app that pricks your finger.


----------



## llcook51

LCMusicLover said:


> LP is quite engaging with Auteur with Gold Lions as well.  Just as musical as with other amps, but with more bass presence and impact, and a bit more open stage:
> 
> NUC ==> SU-1 ==> Pontus ==> LP/Gold Lions ==> Silver Dragon ==> Blackwood Auteur
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply. The LP also works great with the HD 800S (another 300 0hm).


----------



## UsoppNoKami

rockytopwiz said:


> How does your 2c scale?  Do you hear pretty significant differences between you different amps?  Which headphone of yours would you say scales the most?
> 
> Also if I could get a blood sample, I'll send you over the file for my new app that pricks your finger.



I like picking up the 2C when i want a smooth sound with strong clean bass.  I'm usually doing other things like working / reading while listening through the 2C.. changed to the CF headband to make the weight and weight distribution a bit more tolerable for longer sessions.  Warm smooth sound goes well with pretty much all of my DACs and Amps, i like that kinda thing...

When i'm in the mood to actively listen to stuff, I generally use the Elex on either the LP or my Cayin tube amp.  My Quad ERA-1 should be arriving in the next few days, will see how that goes.  Verite & Glenn OTL orders placed, something to look forward to next year


----------



## Hansotek

UsoppNoKami said:


> I like picking up the 2C when i want a smooth sound with strong clean bass.  I'm usually doing other things like working / reading while listening through the 2C.. changed to the CF headband to make the weight and weight distribution a bit more tolerable for longer sessions.  Warm smooth sound goes well with pretty much all of my DACs and Amps, i like that kinda thing...
> 
> When i'm in the mood to actively listen to stuff, I generally use the Elex on either the LP or my Cayin tube amp.  My Quad ERA-1 should be arriving in the next few days, will see how that goes.  Verite & Glenn OTL orders placed, something to look forward to next year



That's a nice collection of gear you have going there!


----------



## Hansotek

llcook51 said:


> Has anyone tried the LP with the Beyerdynamic T1 (2d Gen)? I was wondering how the LP pairs with a 600 ohm HP.
> Thanks.



The Liquid Crimson was the only amp I ever really liked for the T1. LP should be perfect.


----------



## heliosphann

Hansotek said:


> The Liquid Crimson was the only amp I ever really liked for the T1. LP should be perfect.



Quit bringing up the Crimson! It makes me sad...


----------



## llcook51

Hansotek said:


> The Liquid Crimson was the only amp I ever really liked for the T1. LP should be perfect.


Today, I received a 4-pin XLR cable for my T1 (gen 2). Wow...great match with the LP. Never had the opportunity to hear the Crimson. The LP is superb.


----------



## Odin412

llcook51 said:


> Has anyone tried the LP with the Beyerdynamic T1 (2d Gen)? I was wondering how the LP pairs with a 600 ohm HP.
> Thanks.



I have a T1 2nd generation but my Liquid Platinum hasn't quite finished burn-in yet. I will try when I get a chance.


----------



## Hansotek

llcook51 said:


> Today, I received a 4-pin XLR cable for my T1 (gen 2). Wow...great match with the LP. Never had the opportunity to hear the Crimson. The LP is superb.



Nice!! They sound very similar.


----------



## llcook51

Odin412 said:


> I have a T1 2nd generation but my Liquid Platinum hasn't quite finished burn-in yet. I will try when I get a chance.


Thanks. I am anxious to hear our you impressions compare with mine. I have over a 100 hours in on my LP and my T-1s are about 2 years old. With the new Corpse Gravedigger balanced cable I got today, there is a "heavenly choir."


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Hansotek said:


> That's a nice collection of gear you have going there!



Thanks mate  Your collection tho.. *drools*


----------



## llcook51

UsoppNoKami said:


> Thanks mate  Your collection tho.. *drools*


Agree with both of you about the "equipment collections".


----------



## canali (Dec 11, 2018)

i'm seriously looking at this amp....want to ramp up the SQ from my chord mojo (which i love for its price/versatility)


----------



## Schwibbles (Dec 7, 2018)

llcook51 said:


> Has anyone tried the LP with the Beyerdynamic T1 (2d Gen)? I was wondering how the LP pairs with a 600 ohm HP.
> Thanks.


I can confirm the pairing is quite nice. Even though I find the T1 a little too warm sounding for my preference, I actually think it sounds better from the somewhat warm LP than the more neutral dac1541. The pairing is actually start to change my mind about the T1. I'm beginning to like them.
The LP has more than enough power to drive them. A comfortable listening volume is achieved around 9-10 o'clock on the volume knob.


----------



## llcook51

Schwibbles said:


> I can confirm the pairing is quite nice. Even though I find the T1 a little too warm sounding for my preference, I actually think it sounds better from the somewhat warm LP than the more neutral dac1541. The pairing is actually start to change my mind about the T1. I'm beginning to like them.
> The LP has more than enough power to drive them. A comfortable listening volume is achieved around 9-10 o'clock on the volume knob.


Thanks for the response. The LP does a great job with these HPs.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Enjoying the LP with my Hifiman HE-560v3 tonight. Headphones are fitted with ZMF Auteur suede pads. Jeff Buckley's Grace album sounds v good. Listening to lots of jazz too, happy ears


----------



## tommyk

canali said:


> i'm seriously looking at this amp....want to really ramp up the SQ from my chord mojo (which i love for its price/versatility)
> (i am just getting back into hp audio)...now am looking at compatible dacs, too:
> ps audio, kitsune holo spring, schiit yaggi or RDI etc.
> I am 100% digital, using Roon and Tidal


Today is a good day for pulling the trigger. eBay has 10% again with coupon code PHLDAYTEN. Just add a pair of matched Gold Lion 6922 tubes while at it for a good baseline. As for a DAC, I find Topping D50 is an excellent choice to top it all off [pun intended] - detailed, neutral & well made DAC with support for a good variety of input formats and relatively inexpensive - although your taste of DACs seems more sophisticated.


----------



## canali

tommyk said:


> Today is a good day for pulling the trigger. eBay has 10% again with coupon code PHLDAYTEN. Just add a pair of matched Gold Lion 6922 tubes while at it for a good baseline. As for a DAC, I find Topping D50 is an excellent choice to top it all off [pun intended] - detailed, neutral & well made DAC with support for a good variety of input formats and relatively inexpensive - although your taste of DACs seems more sophisticated.



thanks...they'll probably offer something similar around boxing day or such...i heard monoprice offers 3 key sales/yr
ps: on finding the ebay promo...how do you find such, please?

cheers


----------



## tommyk (Dec 7, 2018)

canali said:


> thanks...they'll probably offer something similar around boxing day or such...i heard monoprice offers 3 key sales/yr
> ps: on finding the ebay promo...how do you find such, please?
> 
> cheers


As for promos: sign up on slickdeals.net and add a deal alert for "ebay coupon". eBay has them almost on every last Friday of the month and the best ones are at the end of the quarter. Now in holiday season they seem to have it even more often. The best ones are 15% off but usually the max amount is capped at $50. Once in a blue moon it is 20% with a small cap, like $25. This one is 10% but the cap is $100 so suitable for something like $700 Liquid Platinum, which also has free shipping via eBay vs some amount through Monoprice. LP is so new that Monoprice itself does not discount it yet - it is explicitly excluded in any holiday promo they run. If you can wait several months it might be a different story.


----------



## canali

many thanks Tommyk...i'm a canuck so we have to pay an extra 33% with our dollar difference (OUCH!)
...so any discounts truly help out.


----------



## rockytopwiz

tommyk said:


> As for promos: sign up on slickdeals.net and add a deal alert for "ebay coupon". eBay has them almost on every last Friday of the month and the best ones are at the end of the quarter. Now in holiday season they seems to have it even more often. The best ones are 15% off but usually the max amount is capped at $50. Once in a a blue moon it is 20% with a small cap, like $25. This one is 10% but the cap is $100 so suitable for something like $700 Liquid Platinum, which also has free shipping via eBay vs some amount through Monoprice. LP is so new that Monoprice itself does not discount it yet - it is explicitly excluded in any holiday promo they run. If you can wait several months it might be a different story.


This guy knows what's up. 

A true slickster, arghh


----------



## Inoculator (Dec 7, 2018)

On the topic of discounts, I did have good luck with the 20% back in points via Rakuten, a deal they are running again today. Granted not a discount, but I got $139 back in points that I was able to use toward a Liquid Spark for my office and some odds and ends.


----------



## llcook51

UsoppNoKami said:


> Enjoying the LP with my Hifiman HE-560v3 tonight. Headphones are fitted with ZMF Auteur suede pads. Jeff Buckley's Grace album sounds v good. Listening to lots of jazz too, happy ears


Great audio equipment and music selection.


----------



## Hansotek

Jamming on the LP today, as I asked Monoprice to send me one to bring down for ZMFestivus this weekend. I can report a couple of nice synergy updates because I have some different headphones here now than I did when I had the LP before.

- ZMF Verite and LP are ridiculous together. Absolutely ri-damn-diculous. The bass just slams and the mids are warm and sweet. Great match.

- HE1000se and LP are a great match. I wish Hifiman wound send a damn 4-pin cable instead of the Pentaconn, but SE output still sounds great and HE1000se doesn't need a ton of power... but still.... grrrr... Anyway, outstanding transparency. Rolled in some '75 SWGP Reflektors, and the sonic gap between LP and the $5K Manley amp sitting 3 feet away narrowed considerably. Unfortunately, one of the Reflektors wasn't working properly, so I was getting perfect sound from one channel and some funky sound from the other. Either way, I could tell the timbre and microdynamics made a big jump with the roll, giving the sound a lot more depth of color. I'll have to rectify that garbage tube when I get an LP of my own in a couple months here because I liked what I heard though.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Hansotek said:


> - ZMF Verite and LP are ridiculous together. Absolutely ri-damn-diculous. The bass just slams and the mids are warm and sweet. Great match.



Excited to hear that, as my Verite will arrive way ahead of the GOTL lol. Did you draw the above conclusion with stock EH, Gold Lions or the Reflektors? If the latter, can only imagine your enjoyment increasing further without a busted tube...


----------



## hemtmaker

Been enjoying the LP with gold lions too. Thanks Alex!


----------



## Jim N

Really enjoying the LP too. Great with my Elex and my Senn HD600 (both balanced). Using the Genalex tubes, which was a nice upgrade.

More than got my money's worth so far. I do have a Massdrop La Frigaro 339 coming in next week to try a different flavor. The LP is not colored IMHO. Compares very well to my Auralic Taurus II in that I cannot pick a "winner". 

I have had zero issues with the LP since early in Day 1 with Massdrop Fostex Mahogany connected SE. I have not used them since though, going strictly balanced with the Elex and HD600.


----------



## Hansotek

UsoppNoKami said:


> Excited to hear that, as my Verite will arrive way ahead of the GOTL lol. Did you draw the above conclusion with stock EH, Gold Lions or the Reflektors? If the latter, can only imagine your enjoyment increasing further without a busted tube...



Plugged in the Reflektors first. One channel was amazing, the other was garbage. Then tried the stock EH tubes. Clearly no where near as good, but both tubes were actually working. Verite was sounding great with both    tubes though. Don’t have any Golden Lions currently, but I’m familiar with them, they’re pretty solid, IMO. I think Alex actually used them as the stock tube in the Crimson. 

I have an obscene amount of tubes. I’m more into the Reflektors or the 60’s era Philips tubes manufactured in Harleen, Holland for 6922 types, personally. But, you know, tubes are like ice cream, everybody has their favorite flavor.


----------



## llcook51 (Dec 9, 2018)

Jim N said:


> Really enjoying the LP too. Great with my Elex and my Senn HD600 (both balanced). Using the Genalex tubes, which was a nice upgrade.
> 
> More than got my money's worth so far. I do have a Massdrop La Frigaro 339 coming in next week to try a different flavor. The LP is not colored IMHO. Compares very well to my Auralic Taurus II in that I cannot pick a "winner".
> 
> I have had zero issues with the LP since early in Day 1 with Massdrop Fostex Mahogany connected SE. I have not used them since though, going strictly balanced with the Elex and HD600.


Great post.
The LP pairs well with all of my HPs: HD 800S; Ether2; LCD-4; and Beyer T1 (2Gen). Plenty of power and space for every genre of music: metal, jazz, classical and electronic.
Alex Cavalli out-did himself with this one!


----------



## NEXTLEVEL5

Adapters came in and I just popped in the WE396A tubes, ahh heaven


----------



## canali (Dec 8, 2018)

gang, i'm considering this cavelli as an upgrade from my chord mojo (also considering the benchmark 3 hgc)
....my friend says a good quality linear power supply makes a difference in sq too.
...suggested this one from auralic.
would it work? https://artsexcellence.com/auralic-linear-power-supply.html?___store=ae_en&___from_store=ae_nl

suggestions are welcomed.


----------



## atomicbob

canali said:


> gang, i'm considering this cavelli as an upgrade from my chord mojo (also considering the benchmark 3 hgc)
> ....my friend says a good quality linear power supply makes a difference in sq too.
> ...suggested this one from auralic.
> would it work? https://artsexcellence.com/auralic-linear-power-supply.html?___store=ae_en&___from_store=ae_nl
> ...


Some amp + SMPS combinations benefit from replacing the SMPS with a LPS. The Liquid Platinum has a lower noise SMPS than usual and the amp has been designed with this specific SMPS as part of the design optimization. Liquid Platinum does not benefit from an LPS like some other designs. Please refer here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...ical-measurements.894843/page-2#post-14641331

Additionally, there are risks associated with using a linear power supply for which a given design was not intended:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...ical-measurements.894843/page-2#post-14641335

This is true of all amps where the user chooses to substitute an LPS for the supplied SMPS. Please be advised and take into consideration appropriately.


----------



## canali (Dec 8, 2018)

atomicbob said:


> Some amp + SMPS combinations benefit from replacing the SMPS with a LPS. The Liquid Platinum has a lower noise SMPS than usual and the amp has been designed with this specific SMPS as part of the design optimization. Liquid Platinum does not benefit from an LPS like some other designs. Please refer here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...ical-measurements.894843/page-2#post-14641331
> 
> Additionally, there are risks associated with using a linear power supply for which a given design was not intended:
> ...



many thanks....i was reading a review_* 'enjoy the music'*_ (below) and it had suggested swapping out the power supply, hence my query.
*http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1018/Monoprice_Monolith_Liquid_Platinum_Headphone_Amplifier_Review.htm*

excerpt: _*''The treble is very clear for the price, but not entirely grain-free, if I'm holding it up against the very highest standards. I think this is another area where the Platinum would be helped out greatly by a dedicated linear power supply instead of the SMPS*.* I can't help but feel this is an amp that still has a lot more to offer in terms of scalability, as every time I run into a minor quibble, it seems to trace back to the power.* One can't say for certain without testing, but for someone like me who tends to experiment a lot with such things, this seems like a fairly obvious place to start if I want to try and upgrade the sound of the basic unit.''_


----------



## llcook51

atomicbob said:


> Some amp + SMPS combinations benefit from replacing the SMPS with a LPS. The Liquid Platinum has a lower noise SMPS than usual and the amp has been designed with this specific SMPS as part of the design optimization. Liquid Platinum does not benefit from an LPS like some other designs. Please refer here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...ical-measurements.894843/page-2#post-14641331
> 
> Additionally, there are risks associated with using a linear power supply for which a given design was not intended:
> ...


Thanks for the post.


----------



## heliosphann

Hansotek said:


> Jamming on the LP today, as I asked Monoprice to send me one to bring down for ZMFestivus this weekend. I can report a couple of nice synergy updates because I have some different headphones here now than I did when I had the LP before.
> 
> - ZMF Verite and LP are ridiculous together. Absolutely ri-damn-diculous. The bass just slams and the mids are warm and sweet. Great match.



Hmmm, seems like I've heard this before... Oh yea! 


heliosphann said:


> As I'm writing this, I just rolled some different tubes into my Liquid Platinum and they immediately improved the pairing with the Verite. So much this might be my favorite match for the Verite.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Hansotek said:


> Plugged in the Reflektors first. One channel was amazing, the other was garbage. Then tried the stock EH tubes. Clearly no where near as good, but both tubes were actually working. Verite was sounding great with both    tubes though. Don’t have any Golden Lions currently, but I’m familiar with them, they’re pretty solid, IMO. I think Alex actually used them as the stock tube in the Crimson.
> 
> I have an obscene amount of tubes. I’m more into the Reflektors or the 60’s era Philips tubes manufactured in Harleen, Holland for 6922 types, personally. But, you know, tubes are like ice cream, everybody has their favorite flavor.



Thanks mate, i have just ordered a pair of '75 Reflektors to try


----------



## Guidostrunk

If you ever decide to try other tubes in the 5670/2c51/396a family. Shoot @AuditoryCanvas a pm , and see if he has any 50's Foton triple micas. They're about as good as it gets in those family of tubes. And they're not as expensive as the we396a, even though I don't really consider the 396a tubes all that pricey considering what the 6922 variants cost. 
The 5670 variants are definitely next level(pun intended) lol.
Cheers!


NEXTLEVEL5 said:


> Adapters came in and I just popped in the WE396A tubes, ahh heaven


----------



## Odin412

llcook51 said:


> Thanks. I am anxious to hear our you impressions compare with mine. I have over a 100 hours in on my LP and my T-1s are about 2 years old. With the new Corpse Gravedigger balanced cable I got today, there is a "heavenly choir."



My Liquid Platinum isn't fully burned-in yet - it has maybe 50 hours so far, but holy smokes it sounds good with the T1.2! I have a bit of mixed experience with the T1.2 - it's picky with amps and the treble can easily sound too bright and harsh with the wrong amp combo. The LP is clearly not the wrong combo - I've never heard the T1.2 sound better! The bass is deep and juicy, the midrange is like being in the studio when the recording was made and the treble is extended and airy but never harsh or grating. I've only tried the single-ended output so far, but I have the balanced cable so I have try that once I can stop listening for long enough to actually look for the cable.


----------



## llcook51

Odin412 said:


> My Liquid Platinum isn't fully burned-in yet - it has maybe 50 hours so far, but holy smokes it sounds good with the T1.2! I have a bit of mixed experience with the T1.2 - it's picky with amps and the treble can easily sound too bright and harsh with the wrong amp combo. The LP is clearly not the wrong combo - I've never heard the T1.2 sound better! The bass is deep and juicy, the midrange is like being in the studio when the recording was made and the treble is extended and airy but never harsh or grating. I've only tried the single-ended output so far, but I have the balanced cable so I have try that once I can stop listening for long enough to actually look for the cable.


Totally agree. It is difficult to stop listening long enough to go to work to pay for this hobby.


----------



## Rattle

LP has about 30 hours on it so far, is it ok to swap balanced connectors with power on ? I have 2 pairs of headphones, i've been turning volume down and turning off the amp before switching.


----------



## heliosphann

Rattle said:


> LP has about 30 hours on it so far, is it ok to swap balanced connectors with power on ? I have 2 pairs of headphones, i've been turning volume down and turning off the amp before switching.



You'll be fine if you just turn the volume down.


----------



## sahmen (Dec 9, 2018)

*Re : Tubes / Socket Savers*

Is there a special technique to seating the sockets properly that I should know about?  I am a newbie to tubes in general, and even without a couple of socket savers that I have just acquired, I sometimes experience some difficulty in aligning the pins of the tubes to their corresponding sockets, and seating them properly, which is one of the reasons I bought the sockets savers in the first place.  I am just looking for safe "common sense" approaches to aligning the pins of the socket savers and seating them on the sockets inside the amp, and then doing the same with those of my tubes on the sockets on the socket savers, in order to assure the safety and longevity of all pins and sockets.

Is there any advantage, for example, in pushing the pins inside the sockets to ensure they're stuck and do not disengage easily, once one has been able to seat them properly?  I have wondered whether that is the appropriate way to do the seating, although I have not actually tried doing that yet.  So far, I only seat the tubes in a very loose way, which makes them rather easy to disengage from their sockets with the slightest movement of the amp.


Any helpful ideas wouls be very appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## Fogelstrauss

this amp looks so cool, I have to buy it. I currently own Beyer T1 + Focal Utopias and ordered a Meze Empyrean. At the moment I use the T1 with the Beyer A2 and the Utopias with a Bryston BHA-1. You think this amp would be a good fit for the Empyreans?


----------



## Hansotek

canali said:


> many thanks....i was reading a review_* 'enjoy the music'*_ (below) and it had suggested swapping out the power supply, hence my query.
> *http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1018/Monoprice_Monolith_Liquid_Platinum_Headphone_Amplifier_Review.htm*
> 
> excerpt: _*''The treble is very clear for the price, but not entirely grain-free, if I'm holding it up against the very highest standards. I think this is another area where the Platinum would be helped out greatly by a dedicated linear power supply instead of the SMPS*.* I can't help but feel this is an amp that still has a lot more to offer in terms of scalability, as every time I run into a minor quibble, it seems to trace back to the power.* One can't say for certain without testing, but for someone like me who tends to experiment a lot with such things, this seems like a fairly obvious place to start if I want to try and upgrade the sound of the basic unit.''_



I wrote that review. I feel like I’ve already added a ton of context around those comments throughout this thread.

I wouldn’t worry about the power supply too much. It sounds really good with the SMPS, and Bob’s measurements indicate very solid performance from it. Nobody has really posted any LPS sonic impressions, so I’m not entirely sure the juice is worth the squeeze. Getting a good pair of tubes in there helps a lot, even though the stock tubes are pretty decent. I got some better tubes since the first time I had it and I heard the potential that I knew was there from the start, if you look a couple posts back.

Also realize that when I say, “Holding it up to the highest standards,” it is sitting on a table next to a couple $5K amps. I reviewed it in light of its direct relation to the Crimson, which, in some cases means treating it like it costs $3K - I realize that is unfair in some ways to the $699 Platinum, but I wouldn’t treat it with this kind of respect if it wasn’t so damn good. It deserves to be measured against the best, because there’s nothing to talk about if you try to compare it to most amps in its actual price range. It simply smokes them.

I hope that additional context helps. Let me know if you need additional clarification.


----------



## Hansotek

Fogelstrauss said:


> this amp looks so cool, I have to buy it. I currently own Beyer T1 + Focal Utopias and ordered a Meze Empyrean. At the moment I use the T1 with the Beyer A2 and the Utopias with a Bryston BHA-1. You think this amp would be a good fit for the Empyreans?



YES. It’s going to be awesome with the Empyrean. That’s a great headphone.


----------



## Hansotek

heliosphann said:


> Hmmm, seems like I've heard this before... Oh yea!



A bunch of people heard the Verite & Platinum combo at the meet today too, it was a huge hit. 

I’m in love with the bass out of that combo!


----------



## canali (Dec 10, 2018)

Hansotek said:


> I wrote that review. I feel like I’ve already added a ton of context around those comments throughout this thread.
> 
> I wouldn’t worry about the power supply too much. It sounds really good with the SMPS, and Bob’s measurements indicate very solid performance from it. Nobody has really posted any LPS sonic impressions, so I’m not entirely sure the juice is worth the squeeze. Getting a good pair of tubes in there helps a lot, even though the stock tubes are pretty decent. I got some better tubes since the first time I had it and I heard the potential that I knew was there from the start, if you look a couple posts back.
> 
> ...



Thank you for clarifying....my bad...I didn’t read the thread from start to finish yet (getting there)


----------



## alphanumerix1

so basically dont use a lps and just stick with a the stock brick, gotcha.


----------



## llcook51

heliosphann said:


> You'll be fine if you just turn the volume down.


Agree. I switch quite often with no problem as long as the volume is turned down.


----------



## Rattle

So I have some JJ gold pins that have about 40 hours on them in my valhalla 2. Anyone hear them in the LP yet ? I'm closing in on 40 hours on the LP with EH tubes. Probably won't mess with it until the holiday break. Anyone comment on the difference between gold lions the JJ's and the stock by chance ?


----------



## JamesCanada

will this : https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-4-pin-xlr-to-2-5mm-trrs-adapter#overview 
work on this amp?


----------



## Inoculator

JamesCanada said:


> will this : https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-4-pin-xlr-to-2-5mm-trrs-adapter#overview
> work on this amp?



Yes.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Rattle said:


> So I have some JJ gold pins that have about 40 hours on them in my valhalla 2. Anyone hear them in the LP yet ? I'm closing in on 40 hours on the LP with EH tubes. Probably won't mess with it until the holiday break. Anyone comment on the difference between gold lions the JJ's and the stock by chance ?


Genalex Gold Pins vs stock here.  GLs are a significant improvement -- more bass, a little more sound stage, a little softer in the treble region (which is a good thing with my Utopia and Auteur, not so much with my planars). In all, to my ears on my equipment, well worth the $70 I spent (15% off ebay deal) since my number one goal with LP was to improve sound from Utopia.  From GLs, both Utopia & Auteur produce wonderful bass.

Now I'm looking for a pair for my planars (don't need bass boost, want more treble energy, overall impact).  Considering NOS Siemens and Amperex ... $$$  

Hope that helps.


----------



## Rattle

LCMusicLover said:


> Genalex Gold Pins vs stock here.  GLs are a significant improvement -- more bass, a little more sound stage, a little softer in the treble region (which is a good thing with my Utopia and Auteur, not so much with my planars). In all, to my ears on my equipment, well worth the $70 I spent (15% off ebay deal) since my number one goal with LP was to improve sound from Utopia.  From GLs, both Utopia & Auteur produce wonderful bass.
> 
> Now I'm looking for a pair for my planars (don't need bass boost, want more treble energy, overall impact).  Considering NOS Siemens and Amperex ... $$$
> 
> Hope that helps.



Using HD6xx and HD600 here. I'll try the JJ gold's once burn in is complete. Don't like spending more than $50 for tubes. Might have to try the gold lions though.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

My LP arrived today ! Paired with a NAD M51, absolutely glorious and gorgeous lush sound !!!!!
Gives all my cans great body with plenty of details !!!

Denon 7200
HD800S
Alpha Prime

So musical !

Still have to hear the LP with my LCD3, Nightowl, and HD58X.


----------



## benjerman

If I'm using the SE headphone out on this amp, does it matter if I use RCA or XLR between my DAC and amp?


----------



## canali (Dec 11, 2018)

i always enjoy Paul McGowans's channel on youtube.
aside from being so knowledgeable on audio issues,
he can also be hillarious to watch, too, and sometimes comes across as a bit goofy
(in a very endearing way) when he describes personal experiences with illustration.

my bud went balanced...i didn't understand the 'whys' so much.
but this video helped out.
hope it's equally helpful to others.

as a side note PS Audio is designing  3 series of speakers that should be out next fall.
the 3 price ranges i was told via email (nothing set in stone just yet, still in development)
from $20-30k, $50-70k and then $80-100k-ish.
man they must be SWEET to listen to.

you see see the 'listening room' series they have on their site:
in house massive 7ft speakers.


----------



## chimney189

Has anyone had a listen to this amplifier with the HE-1000 V2?


----------



## Hansotek

chimney189 said:


> Has anyone had a listen to this amplifier with the HE-1000 V2?



I’ve listened to the Platinum with the HE1000se and it’s fantastic. Also heard the very similar sounding V1 & V2 on the Liquid Crimson and found it to be one of the best synergies around. You should be very solid matching the LP and V2.


----------



## LCMusicLover

chimney189 said:


> Has anyone had a listen to this amplifier with the HE-1000 V2?


Yes, I have.  I didn't love it with the stock tubes.  Not bad, but not 'Oh Wow!' as it was with the Gold Lions and Utopia/Auteur.  Not really an improvement over HEKv2 w/ SS amp (Bryston BHA-1).  Pretty much the same results with all my planars (HEK, E2, EFO 1.1 -- haven't tried HE-560s yet).

I've ordered some NOS Siemens (it was that or some NOS Amperex), which I hope will up the Wow! factor. Unfortunately, they're a couple of weeks out as they're coming from Europe.  Meantime, I'm going to switch back to the stock EH tubes to see if they're actually a better pairing with my planars.  I had ordered the Gold Lions at the same time as the LP, so the stock tubes only got a cursory listen before I switch to the GLs, which were definitely OH WOW!!! with Utopia and Auteur.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Hansotek said:


> I’ve listened to the Platinum with the HE1000se and it’s fantastic. Also heard the very similar sounding V1 & V2 on the Liquid Crimson and found it to be one of the best synergies around. You should be very solid matching the LP and V2.





LCMusicLover said:


> Yes, I have.  I didn't love it with the stock tubes.  Not bad, but not 'Oh Wow!' as it was with the Gold Lions and Utopia/Auteur...


Your ears, my ears.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

LCMusicLover said:


> Your ears, my ears.





LCMusicLover said:


> Yes, I have.  I didn't love it with the stock tubes.  Not bad, but not 'Oh Wow!' as it was with the Gold Lions and Utopia/Auteur.  Not really an improvement over HEKv2 w/ SS amp (Bryston BHA-1).  Pretty much the same results with all my planars (HEK, E2, EFO 1.1 -- haven't tried HE-560s yet).
> 
> I've ordered some NOS Siemens (it was that or some NOS Amperex), which I hope will up the Wow! factor. Unfortunately, they're a couple of weeks out as they're coming from Europe.  Meantime, I'm going to switch back to the stock EH tubes to see if they're actually a better pairing with my planars.  I had ordered the Gold Lions at the same time as the LP, so the stock tubes only got a cursory listen before I switch to the GLs, which were definitely OH WOW!!! with Utopia and Auteur.


Hello, question from a total newbi, any 9 pin socket will work with the 6922 tubes ?
Do I really need those sockets?


----------



## Hansotek

Serge Bernamej said:


> Hello, question from a total newbi, any 9 pin socket will work with the 6922 tubes ?
> Do I really need those sockets?



Are you talking about socket savers? You only "need" them if you roll a lot of tubes.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Hansotek said:


> Are you talking about socket savers? You only "need" them if you roll a lot of tubes.


Oh ok !!! Yes socket savors. So I don’t really need them ?


----------



## llcook51

Hansotek said:


> I’ve listened to the Platinum with the HE1000se and it’s fantastic. Also heard the very similar sounding V1 & V2 on the Liquid Crimson and found it to be one of the best synergies around. You should be very solid matching the LP and V2.


The LP and the HEK v2 is a great match, Plenty of everything for every music genre.


----------



## Hansotek

Serge Bernamej said:


> Oh ok !!! Yes socket savors. So I don’t really need them ?



They just make it easier to insert and remove tubes without putting excessive wear on the amp’s tube sockets... hence the name.

If you’re going to roll a bunch of tubes in there and experiment with different sounds, socket savers are a good idea. If you plan on putting one set of tubes in there and leaving them, they aren’t really needed.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Hansotek said:


> They just make it easier to insert and remove tubes without putting excessive wear on the amp’s tube sockets... hence the name.
> 
> If you’re going to roll a bunch of tubes in there and experiment with different sounds, socket savers are a good idea. If you plan on putting one set of tubes in there and leaving them, they aren’t really needed.


Got it !!! I plan only one or two changes


----------



## legion1capone

If I love the sound from my liquid spark should I do the next upgrade and get the liquid platinum or the thx aaa789? As great as the reviews and comments are on the 789 I'm worried I'll find it unexciting and or boring. I feel I need both to be honest lol


----------



## Holypal

Liquid Platinum.  THX AAA789 is overrated.


----------



## legion1capone

Holypal said:


> Liquid Platinum.  THX AAA789 is overrated.



I'm all about a musical sound, feeling and emotion when listening. What makes you say it's overrated I'm curious? Have you heard it?


----------



## Fogelstrauss

There is no version for the European market, right? Can I just order one from the us and use some kind of adapter for the jack, so it fits in the German socket?


----------



## runeight

The power brick is globally universal. U just need the wall plug adaptor.


----------



## Inoculator (Dec 17, 2018)

I now understand why people are interested in socket savers. Just got the gold lions, and the process of swapping them was kind of nightmare. Really really tight sockets on this, made removal really difficult. More concerning was reinserting, it required a significant amount of force and wiggling to get them to seat all the way in. I don't think I have ever been more nervous about breaking something.

Would love to offer some stock vs gold lion impressions, but afraid to go through the process of swapping them after the difficulty I had. Will be buying the socket savers suggested earlier in the thread once they are back in stock. Would also love to be able to easily swap the left and right tube, because while I bought a matched pair, I feel like I am noticing some left/right channel discrepancies.

After 24 hours of burn-in my impressions of the gold lions is overall positive. Seems to make the sound punchier and more detailed. The tradeoff is the sound is a bit less laid back, and I worry that particularly hot recordings are borderline unlistenable on them. Will need to do more testing, but I had my whole FLAC library on shuffle just skipping through tracks testing different stuff, and some tracks were just really unenjoyable. In particular, I came across "Monster" by Kanye and I have never wanted to rip the headphones off my head faster in my life. Granted I just fired up that track on my Vali 1/HD58X rig at work and it is mixed so hot it sounds terrible here also, but just something to watch out for. Another example I remember is "Day I Die" by the National, a track I never really remember having issues with, but the recording just sounded way too hot for me. The gold lions just seem to really be amplifying those aspects of a recording. This was also apparent listening to vinyl. I ended up actually turning down the gain on my Mani as I felt I was getting distortion/clipping type issues that I had not been experiencing with stock tubes.

EDIT: Here is my follow-up after longer burn-in. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...-by-alex-cavalli.876406/page-63#post-14663698


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Oh no...just ordered golden lions !!!!! What I loved about the LP was it’s smooth sound, am I going to get back into harsh land with the Golden Lions tubes ? Anybody can comment ?


----------



## Inoculator (Dec 12, 2018)

Serge Bernamej said:


> Oh no...just ordered golden lions !!!!! What I loved about the LP was it’s smooth sound, am I going to get back into harsh land with the Golden Lions tubes ? Anybody can comment ?



Just my initial impressions, burn-in not done yet. Hope I was just being paranoid, would love to hear your impressions as well!

EDIT: I also agree with the post below, I would not call them harsh at all. Just more revealing.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Inoculator said:


> Just my initial impressions, burn-in not done yet. Hope I was just being paranoid, would love to hear your impressions as well!


Just realised my stock tybes were not well seated...tried to push them in and I too found it a nightmare !!!!!


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Poeple help !!!!!! I can’t shove the tubes firther than this !!! Is this nornal ? I try to rock them in as much as I could without breaking them. HELP!!


----------



## chimney189

Can anyone compare this amplifier to the Cavalli Liquid Carbon?


----------



## Phantaminum

Serge Bernamej said:


> Poeple help !!!!!! I can’t shove the tubes firther than this !!! Is this nornal ? I try to rock them in as much as I could without breaking them. HELP!!



You have to give us more context. Are these new tubes? Could be the  new tubes are longer than the tubes that came with the LP. 

Do they turn on? If they turn on and your hear sound out of them after 10 seconds you’re fine. 

Pull them out and verify you inserted them correctly.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Phantaminum said:


> You have to give us more context. Are these new tubes? Could be the  new tubes are longer than the tubes that came with the LP.
> 
> Do they turn on? If they turn on and your hear sound out of them after 10 seconds you’re fine.
> 
> Pull them out and verify you inserted them correctly.


Thank you for responding. They are the stock tubes. The sound comes just fine but I would not want to install them incorrectly or miss on something. That’s really as deep as I cou;d go; yet the pictures show the Platinum with tubes way way deeper into the amp. Anyways, I hope it’s good.


----------



## llcook51

Serge Bernamej said:


> Oh no...just ordered golden lions !!!!! What I loved about the LP was it’s smooth sound, am I going to get back into harsh land with the Golden Lions tubes ? Anybody can comment ?


Gold Lions are by no means harsh. They accurately reflect the source material. Use a good source and receive a good result.


----------



## LCMusicLover

chimney189 said:


> Can anyone compare this amplifier to the Cavalli Liquid Carbon?


I have the Massdrop LC-X.  Would that help, or are you more interested in comparisons to the LC v1 or v2?


----------



## chimney189

LCMusicLover said:


> I have the Massdrop LC-X.  Would that help, or are you more interested in comparisons to the LC v1 or v2?



Is there much of a difference from V1 to V2?


----------



## Dolby1000

Hi Folks, new member, first post! 40 year audiophile here, but brand new to high end headphones. I currently own an OPPO HA-1 amp and OPPO PM-2 and PM-3 headphones, which I'm enjoying a lot. My question is do you folks think the Liquid Platinum will be a worthwhile upgrade to my OPPO amp? Thanks!


----------



## LCMusicLover

chimney189 said:


> Is there much of a difference from V1 to V2?


I've never heard either.  I think the SQ differences were small between the two versions, although there was talk of some power-related issues with the sound of v1 with sensitive cans or IEMs.  Again, I'm just summarizing what I've read -- never heard v1 or v2.  This thread might tell you what you need to know:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-2-0-owners-impressions.822866/

and there are 3 reviews in the showcase.


----------



## chimney189

LCMusicLover said:


> I've never heard either.  I think the SQ differences were small between the two versions, although there was talk of some power-related issues with the sound of v1 with sensitive cans or IEMs.  Again, I'm just summarizing what I've read -- never heard v1 or v2.  This thread might tell you what you need to know:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-2-0-owners-impressions.822866/
> 
> and there are 3 reviews in the showcase.



Okay, thanks.
How would you compare your Massdrop version to the LP amplifier?


----------



## LCMusicLover

chimney189 said:


> Okay, thanks.
> How would you compare your Massdrop version to the LP amplifier?


Working (channelling the Star Trek TOS computer voice)

I'll take a listen this evening, haven't touched the LC-X since the LP came in.


----------



## sahmen (Dec 13, 2018)

I have the Liquid Carbon V1... From my perspective it shares the same basic tonality as the LP, but the LP comes with relatively more technical enhancements... The LP seems to project a wider soundstage, for example, and an ampler sense of spaciousness and air, and also can sound more  lush, depending on source.  Also, the tubes on the LP allow for more experimentation with "flavors" which is a-whole-nother kettle of fish...

I have so far experimented with the stock tubes, a pair of Genalex Gold Lions, and a pair of 6N23P Reflektor Holy Grail 1975 SWGP tubes, which are currently on the LP... The latter seem to sound the best of all three, followed by the Genalex Lions.  I have heard some texturing and variations on bass notes and depth with the Reflektors, that seem to be out of the league of anything the Liquid Carbon has ever managed or can manage to my ears, but this remains to be confirmed by a head to head A/B comparison, which i normally hate to do (as opposed just kicking back and enjoying the music, when I have the time)...

Mind you, the Liquid Carbon is no slouch at all, and nor is the Liquid Spark, which no-one has mentioned so far... The LP is just better than both of them, period.

I also have a couple of Tubemonger socket savers, which have made seating and swapping tubes a whole lot more smooth and hassle-free for me...  By the way, I still do not intend to play with too many tubes down the line...  I have found a lot to like about the sound of the Genalexes and the Reflektors, and I am curious about Telefunken tubes...  but that will be all, at least for now, and the near future, unless some thing changes, of course.


----------



## maxcooper

Zachik said:


> I own the LCX and CTH, and use the pass-through from the LCX to feed CTH. The LCX does NOT need to be on! works perfectly fine.





jsmiller58 said:


> That’s great!  I had read elsewhere that it was required to be on, but either that info was wrong or in later drops this has been addressed.



Maybe it depends on your DAC and the other amp?

I have a Topping D50 DAC daisy-chained through the LCX to the THX789, and the LCX needs to be powered on to avoid distortion when listening to the D50+789. I will hear the music out of the 789 when the LCX is off, but there is a lot of distortion -- bass gets very fuzzy, etc. If I turn the LCX on, the distortion goes away. It isn't subtle (doesn't take a golden ear to hear it), but I have listened for a while before I noticed on occasion, depending on the music. YMMV


----------



## fortunate son

canali said:


> thanks...they'll probably offer something similar around boxing day or such...i heard monoprice offers 3 key sales/yr
> ps: on finding the ebay promo...how do you find such, please?
> 
> cheers


Check out the price of this LP on ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Liquid-Pla...=item33f8a3b41a:g:K9EAAOSw~atb3It~:rk:12:pf:0


----------



## heliosphann

chimney189 said:


> Is there much of a difference from V1 to V2?



I think there was only one or two minor changes and they didn't really effect the sound. Maybe @runeight can set the record straight?


----------



## Guidostrunk

If any of you are looking for 6922 variants. @kolkoo has a for sale thread here. You won't find a better or more honest deal. He just discounted his lot for Christmas. I've known him for some years on the Lyr thread. Top notch to deal with. 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/pri...2-siemens-telefunken-philips-and-more.891579/


----------



## Serge Bernamej

runeight said:


> Made by Genalex. I like them myself quite a bit. They are $46 at tube depot. Don't know about other places.
> 
> But, if you don't want to spend big bucks on NOS 6922s, these might suit you pretty well.


Mr Cavalli, I may want to spend big bucks on tubes. Can you recommend me some ?
For now, the amo is sublime ! Which is why I’m ready to break the bank for even better tubes.


----------



## mattcalgary

I have a MCTH w/LPS and HD650 setup. I really like the tone and presentation overall with this combo and wondering if anyone has done a good comparison of the MCTH to MP (stock units).


----------



## runeight

Serge Bernamej said:


> Mr Cavalli, I may want to spend big bucks on tubes. Can you recommend me some ?
> For now, the amo is sublime ! Which is why I’m ready to break the bank for even better tubes.



I wish I could give you an extensive answer, but I haven't used many NOS tubes for a while. For my production purposes I thought that the EH 6922 and the Genalex 6922 were great for a starter tube and a step up tube with current production tubes.

I bet the rest of the folks on this thread would have a lot to say about this though. Maybe some of them will chime in.


----------



## Hansotek

Serge Bernamej said:


> Mr Cavalli, I may want to spend big bucks on tubes. Can you recommend me some ?
> For now, the amo is sublime ! Which is why I’m ready to break the bank for even better tubes.



Check out this thread:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/692...922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes.761078/


----------



## koven

Has anyone tried Telefunken E88CC w/ the LP?

From what I recall w/ past 6922 rolling experiences, this one blew away the others for me!


----------



## Hansotek

heliosphann said:


> I think there was only one or two minor changes and they didn't really effect the sound. Maybe @runeight can set the record straight?



The main difference is they have a different power supply. There isn’t much difference sonically, I thought the bass might be a smidgon better on V2, but it’s very close.


----------



## Hansotek

koven said:


> Has anyone tried Telefunken E88CC w/ the LP?
> 
> From what I recall w/ past 6922 rolling experiences, this one blew away the others for me!



I tried it on the Crimson and it was okay, IMO. I tend to like warmer tubes though.


----------



## spyder1

Hansotek said:


> I tend to like warmer tubes though.



IMO, warmer tubes would be the Philips, Amperex, Mullard E88CC, and E188CC tubes from the 60's, and 70's.


----------



## Wes S (Dec 13, 2018)

koven said:


> Has anyone tried Telefunken E88CC w/ the LP?
> 
> From what I recall w/ past 6922 rolling experiences, this one blew away the others for me!


I have a pair of those ready to go, o


spyder1 said:


> IMO, warmer tubes would be the Philips, Amperex, Mullard E88CC, and E188CC tubes from the 60's, and 70's.


Amperex 7308, is my favorite and has the warmth, with full bass and liquid mids.  The highs are a bit rolled off.  This is the first tube, i am going to roll, once i get an LP.


----------



## Hansotek

spyder1 said:


> IMO, warmer tubes would be the Philips, Amperex, Mullard E88CC, and E188CC tubes from the 60's, and 70's.



Yeah, I like Harleen tubes like Miniwatts, Amperex, etc. I like Reflektors a lot too. I don’t have any of the smaller Mullards, but I use a Mullard ECC31 and Cossor 45IU on my GOTL, which is my favorite driver/rectifier roll combo for most headphones.


----------



## snip3r77

Holypal said:


> Liquid Platinum.  THX AAA789 is overrated.


Can you pls compare both?


----------



## alphanumerix1

How is the thx 789 overrated? I'm yet to hear a better SS amp in that price range. 

Tested against higher price options such as the cayin iha6 and audiogd nfb1amp.


----------



## sahmen

Has anyone tried the LCD4 on the LP? Impressions?


----------



## llcook51

I tried it when I first got the LP and did not like the sound. It sounded "muffled" to me; however, I tried them again last night (after getting about 150+ hours on the LP). What a world of difference! The bass is distinct and powerful. The highs are clear and ringing. Happy Ears.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

runeight said:


> I wish I could give you an extensive answer, but I haven't used many NOS tubes for a while. For my production purposes I thought that the EH 6922 and the Genalex 6922 were great for a starter tube and a step up tube with current production tubes.
> 
> I bet the rest of the folks on this thread would have a lot to say about this though. Maybe some of them will chime in.


Thanks again for your response and wonderful products sir !


----------



## Serge Bernamej

My LP amp won’t turn on anymore !!!! I did nothing wrong, it just won’t turn on. When I turn it on the green light on the brick flashes on and off...
So sad. I’m covered both by Paypal and Monoprice right? There’s not even 20 hours on it.


----------



## Phantaminum

Serge Bernamej said:


> My LP amp won’t turn on anymore !!!! I did nothing wrong, it just won’t turn on. When I turn it on the green light on the brick flashes on and off...
> So sad. I’m covered both by Paypal and Monoprice right? There’s not even 20 hours on it.



Monoprice will replace it. Try it out on a different electrical socket with it plugged directly into it. See if it exhibits the same behavior. Also I’m wondering if it’s doing that’s because the tubes may not be pushed in all the way as you mentioned earlier.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Phantaminum said:


> Monoprice will replace it. Try it out on a different electrical socket with it plugged directly into it. See if it exhibits the same behavior. Also I’m wondering if it’s doing that’s because the tubes may not be pushed in all the way as you mentioned earlier.


Just returned it for a replacement. I tried it in a different socket, same issue. I pushed the tubes as far as I could...it shouldn’t be rocket science anyways. I hope the replacement unit will get there fast and working because I loved the sound of this amp.

What amp of the same price range could compete with this one ?


----------



## DRHamp

Serge Bernamej said:


> Just returned it for a replacement. I tried it in a different socket, same issue. I pushed the tubes as far as I could...it shouldn’t be rocket science anyways. I hope the replacement unit will get there fast and working because I loved the sound of this amp.
> 
> What amp of the same price range could compete with this one ?



Sent mine back for replacement on 12/6 and the replacement amp is scheduled for delivery on Mon 12/17 so turnaround for me is between 10 and 14 days.  I love the amp too, and hope I have no more problems.

 If you want to stick with a tube hybrid, the Schiit Mjolnir 2 is an alternative and near the same price.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Monoprice currently has 10% off if you use Amazon Pay to pay for it. I just ordered one. Basically the $70 off covered tax and shipping.  Not thrilled about hearing a couple having to be replaced already.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

DRHamp said:


> Sent mine back for replacement on 12/6 and the replacement amp is scheduled for delivery on Mon 12/17 so turnaround for me is between 10 and 14 days.  I love the amp too, and hope I have no more problems
> If you want to stick with a tube hybrid, the Schiit Mjolnir 2 is an alternative and near the same price.



Yeah I hope we’re not gonna end up with a “great deal” that turns out to be chi fi crap.


----------



## Hansotek

Serge Bernamej said:


> Yeah I hope we’re not gonna end up with a “great deal” that turns out to be chi fi crap.



Sounded like a problem with the SMPS, rather than the amp itself, based on your earlier post.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Maybe. I’m now back listening to my Taurus mkii, and really I miss the LP. On;y 4 days of LP made listening to music so intense. Taurus has a cleaner sound but less emotional.


----------



## Rattle

I've got about 50 hours on mine and it's been solid. Hope to add to that this weekend. I wouldnt mind grabbing a spare SMPS just in case.


----------



## DRHamp

DRHamp said:


> Sent mine back for replacement on 12/6 and the replacement amp is scheduled for delivery on Mon 12/17 so turnaround for me is between 10 and 14 days. I love the amp too, and hope I have no more problems.



Looks like my delivery has moved up to today - exactly 11 days turnaround - yay, I'm very happy


----------



## DRHamp (Dec 15, 2018)

Fired it up 3 hours ago with a matched pair of NOS Amperex green globe JAN 7308 and it already sounds glorious - just as I remembered.


----------



## Tnewell

I just received my LP on Friday. It sounds great but like others have noted I find the gain way too high for almost all the headphones I own. I am using the Project S2 Pre Box as a DAC . Normally with all my other amps I have S2 volume set to 0db. For the LP I am backing down the volume on the S2 to -10 dB to have some play in the LP volume.

Just wondering if I’m losing some resolution from the DAC by lowering its volume?


----------



## LCMusicLover

Tnewell said:


> I just received my LP on Friday. It sounds great but like others have noted I find the gain way too high for almost all the headphones I own. I am using the Project S2 Pre Box as a DAC . Normally with all my other amps I have S2 volume set to 0db. For the LP I am backing down the volume on the S2 to -10 dB to have some play in the LP volume.
> 
> Just wondering if I’m losing some resolution from the DAC by lowering its volume?


I don’t think so, as the volume control should be working on the analog output of DAC. Concern about losing resolution is when you lower volume on the digital source, which reduces bit depth.


----------



## greenkiwi

LCMusicLover said:


> I don’t think so, as the volume control should be working on the analog output of DAC. Concern about losing resolution is when you lower volume on the digital source, which reduces bit depth.



My understanding is that in the digital domain, you can decrease the volume in multiples of -3dB and it should have less loss, since the calculation is just a bit shift, rather than calculation.


----------



## LCMusicLover

greenkiwi said:


> My understanding is that in the digital domain, you can decrease the volume in multiples of -3dB and it should have less loss, since the calculation is just a bit shift, rather than calculation.


Yes, but in shifting bits you’re dropping one bit for each 3dB.


----------



## BearlyPizza (Dec 16, 2018)

My replacement arrived on the 7th and i've been burning it in since then. So far no issues with it, here's to hoping it'll stay that way!

Though unlike before, it's now plugged into a balanced toiroidal isolation transformer.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Do you know how long the warranty lasts?


----------



## Odin412

I've been playing around with my Liquid Platinum lately and the synergy with the ZMF Omni/Ori is very good. The midrange is quite special - very lifelike.


----------



## Inoculator

Inoculator said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...-by-alex-cavalli.876406/page-60#post-14654574
> .



I wanted to follow-up on my previous impressions of the gold lions. These really took a turn for me somewhere between 50-100 hours of burn-in, and now I am really enjoying them. It became really apparent once I swapped back to stock tube that the gold lions have a fuller, more detailed sound compared to stock, and are a worthwhile upgrade. Stock tubes still sounded great, but felt much more boring/lifeless right after listening to gold lions. Much of the harshness/fatiguing I was experiencing with the gold lions seems to have disappeared as burn-in went along. Lost track of exact time, but magic spot for me was somewhere between 50-100 hours. 

Also want to add that after swapping tubes a few more times, the sockets started to loosen up a bit and I have been having a much easier time. Still think I am going to grab some socket savers and some pairs of NOS tubes to roll with the LP, but rest assure the sockets will loosen up after a bit of use.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

How long does the warranty lasts ?


----------



## runeight

Serge Bernamej said:


> How long does the warranty lasts ?



So far as I know it is 1 year. You should check either the manual or the MP website to verify.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

runeight said:


> So far as I know it is 1 year. You should check either the manual or the MP website to verify.


Thank you mr Cavalli. My amp is no longer with me, will wait for a replacement. Did not find the info on the site.
Thanks !


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

The Monoprice LP web page says 5 year replacement warranty


----------



## Serge Bernamej

4LoveOfSound said:


> The Monoprice LP web page says 5 year replacement warranty


5 years?!!!!! That’s incredible !


----------



## Rattle

I wonder if it's still 5 years if you bought it new off eBay from monoprice eBay store...


----------



## NEXTLEVEL5

Should not matter since it was purchased via Monoprice


----------



## Serge Bernamej

No clue exactly where the 5 years warranty is hidden though.


----------



## Rattle

Serge Bernamej said:


> No clue exactly where the 5 years warranty is hidden though.



Scroll down on product page after selecting description. It's right above support files where you can DL the manual.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

OMG ok !! I did not bother look at these capsules, they did not look like something serious to read ! More like some empty slogans. But thanks ! 5 years warranty is great !!!!


----------



## skyline315

I looked up the warranty when this first came out and it said 1 year which scared me off.  It definitely says 5 years now.

Can any owners check their manuals or boxes for confirmation?


----------



## runeight

Well, what do i know?


----------



## Rattle

skyline315 said:


> I looked up the warranty when this first came out and it said 1 year which scared me off.  It definitely says 5 years now.
> 
> Can any owners check their manuals or boxes for confirmation?



It says it right on the website


----------



## Serge Bernamej

This sending the amp for replacement thing is making me nervous man. The tracking info on my shipment says "Label created" yet I dropped it off friday !!!!!!! If Fedex loses my package, I'm not going to just accept to loose 700USD!!!!!! What a pain man I swear.


----------



## skyline315 (Dec 18, 2018)

Rattle said:


> It says it right on the website


Yep.  As I said in the post you quoted.

The website did not always say this, however, so I was asking to be safe.  They also botched some of the specs early on (and corrected it later), which all leads me to be skeptical of the website's accuracy.

Five years is probably correct, but I'll message them to be sure.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

My new LP with stock tubes at 15 hours, listening to Duke Ellington’s “Jazz Party,” via Bluesound 2>Vinshine R2R Reference DAC>LP>Abyss 1266. Great tone, deep black background, deep stage, width ok, very musical. I didn’t listen up to this point, the amp was freezing cold when it arrived yesterday, literally. 

It’s been several years ago, at one of the Nashville Meets, when I listened to Dan Clark’s Liquid Crimson, different equipment and headphones, but two core attributes struck me,  musicality and pitch black background.


----------



## sheldaze

Rattle said:


> So I have some JJ gold pins that have about 40 hours on them in my valhalla 2. Anyone hear them in the LP yet ? I'm closing in on 40 hours on the LP with EH tubes. Probably won't mess with it until the holiday break. Anyone comment on the difference between gold lions the JJ's and the stock by chance ?





Rattle said:


> Using HD6xx and HD600 here. I'll try the JJ gold's once burn in is complete. Don't like spending more than $50 for tubes. Might have to try the gold lions though.



I too would prefer not to spend much on tubes. From experience with Valhalla 2 (and before it the Vali 2), I have developed a preference for certain tube sounds. While I wait for these tubes, a friend lent me his JJs (not Gold). After completing the 40-hours with stock EH, I changed to his tubes. These are making a significant change to the sound - as expected, warmer, and smoother highs. So perhaps what you like in Valhalla 2 will equate to a similar character in the LP.

Best luck!


----------



## Rattle

sheldaze said:


> I too would prefer not to spend much on tubes. From experience with Valhalla 2 (and before it the Vali 2), I have developed a preference for certain tube sounds. While I wait for these tubes, a friend lent me his JJs (not Gold). After completing the 40-hours with stock EH, I changed to his tubes. These are making a significant change to the sound - as expected, warmer, and smoother highs. So perhaps what you like in Valhalla 2 will equate to a similar character in the LP.
> 
> Best luck!



Thanks for the post. I'll be swapping to those next time I sit down, probably get some gold lions too soon.


----------



## rockytopwiz

skyline315 said:


> Yep.  As I said in the post you quoted.
> 
> The website did not always say this, however, so I was asking to be safe.  They also botched some of the specs early on (and corrected it later), which all leads me to be skeptical of the website's accuracy.
> 
> Five years is probably correct, but I'll message them to be sure.


Please let us know what they say


----------



## Burgerbassist

Anyone order their LP not using Amazon Prime, i.e. from Monoprice directly or through Amazon fulfilled by Monoprice?  They FedEx'ed my LP to me and it got stolen off my porch.  There was no signature required for delivery, and it's a $700 item, which seems insane to me.  I'm just wondering if anyone else had it delivered FedEx and, if so, if a signature was required.  I may need some generic info to leverage my case with Monorpice/FedEx.  Thanks!


----------



## rockytopwiz (Dec 20, 2018)

Sorry @Burgerbassist that sucks man, I ordered mine off eBay and it did not require signature iirc.  Best of luck getting that sorted out.  Those ****ing thieves are the worst, and I have heard the cops wont look into porch thieves.  Total crap situation, that's why so many people are having items delivered to there work now.  That said, I would be trying everything I could.  I had some knives stolen off my porch last year and the company offered to give me half of my money back but I kept arguing and ended up with nothing.  Hate to be the bearer of bad news, and your situation may be different from mine.  Ymmv.  Best of luck to you.

I just got done chatting with monoprice about the warranty change and this is what they said:


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Ordered mine from Monoprice and it was delivered yesterday. No signature required.  Just left on the porch. I tried to have it re-routed to a FedEx location for pickup and couldn’t. Keep getting an error message saying sender does not allow delivery exception for this item. If you paid with a credit card, you may have some recourse through them.


----------



## Burgerbassist

@rockytopwiz thanks, that sounds promising, at least.  They at least seem to give a damn, which is good.  Unfortunately, I don't think FedEx's standard package insurance goes much past $100, so I think it'll be on Monoprice to handle this, so we'll see where it goes.

@4LoveOfSound thanks for the info - at least I'm not the only one whose wasn't delivered "signature required."  I would have thought that would be standard practice - Zach from ZMF sent me a pair of headphones that required signature, and even a $400 little headphone amp from ALO required it, too.  Between not needing to sign and FedEx delivering the package two days earlier than expected - so there's no way I could have even planned to be home to receive it - I don't see anything I could have done about this, short of having it delivered to work, which I'll be doing from now on.


----------



## Inoculator

Odin412 said:


> I've been playing around with my Liquid Platinum lately and the synergy with the ZMF Omni/Ori is very good. The midrange is quite special - very lifelike.



This is good to hear, as I am seriously considering picking up some used Oris, would be my first ZMF cans. Still liking this pairing? Anyone else with Oris and the LP able to chime in?


----------



## Burgerbassist

Inoculator said:


> This is good to hear, as I am seriously considering picking up some used Oris, would be my first ZMF cans. Still liking this pairing? Anyone else with Oris and the LP able to chime in?



I just got a pair of Ori's and ordered an LP to use with them, and it was taken off my porch before I could give it a listen.  Not sure what timeline you're looking at to buy your Ori's, but as soon as I get a replacement, I'll chime in with some impressions.  I'm excited to hear the two together!  The LP and Blackwoods had good synergy when I tried them together at the ZMFestivus, but I understand the Ori's are a little different sound-signature-wise.


----------



## Inoculator

Burgerbassist said:


> I just got a pair of Ori's and ordered an LP to use with them, and it was taken off my porch before I could give it a listen.  Not sure what timeline you're looking at to buy your Ori's, but as soon as I get a replacement, I'll chime in with some impressions.  I'm excited to hear the two together!  The LP and Blackwoods had good synergy when I tried them together at the ZMFestivus, but I understand the Ori's are a little different sound-signature-wise.



Appreciate that, and bummed to hear about the LP being stolen! What a bummer right before the holidays.

I actually did not have the Ori's on my radar, but may have to make an impulsive decision and snag them.


----------



## Burgerbassist

Inoculator said:


> Appreciate that, and bummed to hear about the LP being stolen! What a bummer right before the holidays.
> 
> I actually did not have the Ori's on my radar, but may have to make an impulsive decision and snag them.



It's not the end of the world, but it is a bummer.  The worst part is that I just want to listen to the amp with my headphones, and I guarantee you the person that took it had no idea what they were stealing.  I'm imagining some high school kid plugging a pair of Beats into it, hahaha.

I'm a big ZMF fan, partly because Zach is an awesome dude who puts in the work and is an active member of the community, and partly because he makes great products.  I have the Atticus, which I love, and I like my Ori's so far, but I haven't had much time with them.  I heard the new models (Verite and Aeolus) on the LP at the ZMFestivus, as well, and both sounded fantastic through it.  As far as I'm concerned, you can't go wrong with ZMF.


----------



## greenkiwi

Burgerbassist said:


> Anyone order their LP not using Amazon Prime, i.e. from Monoprice directly or through Amazon fulfilled by Monoprice?  They FedEx'ed my LP to me and it got stolen off my porch.  There was no signature required for delivery, and it's a $700 item, which seems insane to me.  I'm just wondering if anyone else had it delivered FedEx and, if so, if a signature was required.  I may need some generic info to leverage my case with Monorpice/FedEx.  Thanks!



I've had this happen before and Amazon has always handled it well, i.e. shipped me a new item.  I assume that they weigh the additional cost of signatures vs the cost to replace stolen items.  It's definitely something to be aware of during the holiday season.

This will be enjoyable to watch:


----------



## Burgerbassist

greenkiwi said:


> I've had this happen before and Amazon has always handled it well, i.e. shipped me a new item.  I assume that they weigh the additional cost of signatures vs the cost to replace stolen items.  It's definitely something to be aware of during the holiday season.
> 
> This will be enjoyable to watch:




Ironically, I was cracking up at that video earlier Tuesday, the day it got stolen.  I've had a few good laughs from it since, though, too.

Unfortunately, since I ordered through Amazon but it was fulfilled by Monoprice, Amazon's been pretty vehemently hands-off on this one.  Monoprice has been responsive, though.  It's just gonna take a few days for them to get to the bottom of things with FedEx, so for now I'm playing the waiting game.


----------



## Burgerbassist

I actually think I may have just found the damn thing on eBay, hahaha.  Gonna see what I can do about that in a little bit here.  There may be hope yet!


----------



## rockytopwiz

Burgerbassist said:


> I actually think I may have just found the damn thing on eBay, hahaha.  Gonna see what I can do about that in a little bit here.  There may be hope yet!


Damnnnnn he's from chi-town, and the DA has the tubes just laying on the table.


----------



## alphanumerix1

greenkiwi said:


> I've had this happen before and Amazon has always handled it well, i.e. shipped me a new item.  I assume that they weigh the additional cost of signatures vs the cost to replace stolen items.  It's definitely something to be aware of during the holiday season.
> 
> This will be enjoyable to watch:




lol that was a fun watch.


----------



## terminatetrails

Received my LP today and have been running it with the stock tubes (although I have some new Gold Lions on hand to roll later).  Invited another forum member over to audition for an hour or two.  Utilized Nad streamer->Yggy A2->T1.1/Utopia/LCD-4Z.  Even with no burn in on the tubes and the amp being on for just 20 minutes, the LP is outperforming every other hp amp I've heard.  In the short audition, my friend has also decided to pick one up. 
The most noticeable performance boost is on the T1 followed closely by the Utopia.  Less drastic improvements so far on the 4z.
On Utopia- soundstage has opened up a bit which was my biggest complaint with the Utopia.  Detail retrieval is best I've heard.  There is also an indescribable smoothness to the presentation and sense of space.  Best bass I've heard on the Utopia is out of the LP.
On T1- this amp makes this headphone a top contender in my book.  Soundstage is better than the Utopia (even if some detail is lost).  Very enjoyable environment like I'm inside the music rather than just listening to it being played somewhere else.  While listening to Roundabout by YES and some old Genesis tracks, I had the feeling I was hearing the tracks for the first time.  While listening to one Zappa track, I could hear the wetness of his lips (I know, gross).
Bottom line- _sometimes the hype is real_.  This one is a no brainer if you have the cash.  It is a vast improvement over my Jotunheim, and bests my Mj 2 by a good margin as well.
It is hard to believe how well it is performing right out of the box.  Looking forward to big surprises as the LP breaks in/roll tubes/explore my music collection again.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

terminatetrails said:


> Received my LP today and have been running it with the stock tubes (although I have some new Gold Lions on hand to roll later).  Invited another forum member over to audition for an hour or two.  Utilized Nad streamer->Yggy A2->T1.1/Utopia/LCD-4Z.  Even with no burn in on the tubes and the amp being on for just 20 minutes, the LP is outperforming every other hp amp I've heard.  In the short audition, my friend has also decided to pick one up.
> The most noticeable performance boost is on the T1 followed closely by the Utopia.  Less drastic improvements so far on the 4z.
> On Utopia- soundstage has opened up a bit which was my biggest complaint with the Utopia.  Detail retrieval is best I've heard.  There is also an indescribable smoothness to the presentation and sense of space.  Best bass I've heard on the Utopia is out of the LP.
> On T1- this amp makes this headphone a top contender in my book.  Soundstage is better than the Utopia (even if some detail is lost).  Very enjoyable environment like I'm inside the music rather than just listening to it being played somewhere else.  While listening to Roundabout by YES and some old Genesis tracks, I had the feeling I was hearing the tracks for the first time.  While listening to one Zappa track, I could hear the wetness of his lips (I know, gross).
> ...


Yeah well, untill it breaks that is. I'm so damn pissed. This return thing is taking for ever.


----------



## terminatetrails

Serge Bernamej said:


> Yeah well, untill it breaks that is. I'm so damn pissed. This return thing is taking for ever.


Yep, that is the one thing I warned my friend about.  Top complaint=may break and need replacement.


----------



## rockytopwiz (Dec 21, 2018)

terminatetrails said:


> Received my LP today and have been running it with the stock tubes (although I have some new Gold Lions on hand to roll later).  Invited another forum member over to audition for an hour or two.  Utilized Nad streamer->Yggy A2->T1.1/Utopia/LCD-4Z.  Even with no burn in on the tubes and the amp being on for just 20 minutes, the LP is outperforming every other hp amp I've heard.  In the short audition, my friend has also decided to pick one up.
> The most noticeable performance boost is on the T1 followed closely by the Utopia.  Less drastic improvements so far on the 4z.
> On Utopia- soundstage has opened up a bit which was my biggest complaint with the Utopia.  Detail retrieval is best I've heard.  There is also an indescribable smoothness to the presentation and sense of space.  Best bass I've heard on the Utopia is out of the LP.
> On T1- this amp makes this headphone a top contender in my book.  Soundstage is better than the Utopia (even if some detail is lost).  Very enjoyable environment like I'm inside the music rather than just listening to it being played somewhere else.  While listening to Roundabout by YES and some old Genesis tracks, I had the feeling I was hearing the tracks for the first time.  While listening to one Zappa track, I could hear the wetness of his lips (I know, gross).
> ...


That's what I was saying too man, amazing right out of the box.  Cool to hear it bests your mj I have not heard one of those!

5 year warranty upped from 1 year!


----------



## Serge Bernamej

rockytopwiz said:


> That's what I was saying too man, amazing right out of the box.  Cool to hear it bests your mj I have not heard one of those!
> 
> 5 year warranty upped from 1 year!


No report of a mishandled broken LP from Monoprice yet ? I'm a bit nervous until I see a refund or a new one sent to me. Can they find some excuse not to replace or refund ?


----------



## Pharmaboy

Inoculator said:


> This is good to hear, as I am seriously considering picking up some used Oris, would be my first ZMF cans. Still liking this pairing? Anyone else with Oris and the LP able to chime in?



For what it's worth, I bought an ormosia henryi Ori a couple years ago & love that headphone to pieces. It does need power, but I have 4 amps (2 balanced, 2 SE) that can give it all it needs. Regardless, I'm also jonesing for a Platinum, for 2 reasons:

Based on the incredibly high sonic value-to-price ratio of the Liquid Carbon (v2), I'm very curious about the sound quality coming from another Cavalli design, the Platinum; and
I keep hearing how certain headphones that really matter to me, planars & dynamics, are sounding really above & beyond on the Platinum.
I have so little space on this desktop, but am scheming how to open up some to fit a Platinum.


----------



## runeight

Serge Bernamej said:


> No report of a mishandled broken LP from Monoprice yet ? I'm a bit nervous until I see a refund or a new one sent to me. Can they find some excuse not to replace or refund ?



I don't believe that any US company can do that.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

runeight said:


> I don't believe that any US company can do that.


Ok great ! Because I know of NO other amp bellow the 3-4K$ thatI would want. For the 4 days I had it, it was magic, and even spent whole nights without sleep listening to it. Magic. This explains my disappointment after it failed, it was sooooo good and now gone. I pray that the next one will work properly !


----------



## Zachik

Pharmaboy said:


> I have so little space on this desktop, but am scheming how to open up some to fit a Platinum.


Haha - I am in the exact same situation!
Too many amps. Too little desk space...


----------



## Wildcatsare1

I’m absolutely loving my LP, my Clear is being replaced, but the LP In balanced mode is driving my Abyss 1266 remarkably well. It’s been several years since I listened to Dan Clark’s Crimson at one of the Nashville Meets, but the LP is checking all of the same boxes.


----------



## Rattle

Serge Bernamej said:


> Ok great ! Because I know of NO other amp bellow the 3-4K$ thatI would want. For the 4 days I had it, it was magic, and even spent whole nights without sleep listening to it. Magic. This explains my disappointment after it failed, it was sooooo good and now gone. I pray that the next one will work properly !



Relax man, things have failure rates that's life. Monoprice has a good reputation and it's covered for 5 years anyway. Hopefully you'll get a good unit like most have been so far, like your first one should have been.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Quad ERA-1 + Liquid Platinum = excellent pairing


----------



## chowmein83

@runeight I have a question that I couldn't find an answer to yet after searching everywhere. Are there variants (or "close enough" substitutes) of the 6DJ8/6922/7308 tubes that can be used with the Liquid Platinum?

Specifically, I'm wondering about 7DJ8/PCC88 tubes. Based on my research it seems that the only difference between the 7DJ8 vs. 6DJ8 is the heater voltage (7V vs 6.3V), and that in most other audio products it's okay to substitute in the 7DJ8 instead of the 6DJ8. Would this be the case for the Liquid Platinum?

Thank you, and thanks for working with Monoprice to bring us this fantastic sounding amp!


----------



## runeight

chowmein83 said:


> @runeight I have a question that I couldn't find an answer to yet after searching everywhere. Are there variants (or "close enough" substitutes) of the 6DJ8/6922/7308 tubes that can be used with the Liquid Platinum?
> 
> Specifically, I'm wondering about 7DJ8/PCC88 tubes. Based on my research it seems that the only difference between the 7DJ8 vs. 6DJ8 is the heater voltage (7V vs 6.3V), and that in most other audio products it's okay to substitute in the 7DJ8 instead of the 6DJ8. Would this be the case for the Liquid Platinum?
> 
> Thank you, and thanks for working with Monoprice to bring us this fantastic sounding amp!



7DJ8 will be running 1V low on its heaters which will cause the cathode to run cooler which will reduce its emission. It may not give a good result. I'm not sure how this sub can be used in other products without significantly affecting the sound unless there is some internal compensation built in to the product. But I know that people are doing it.

I can only recommend that you all stay with 6922 or exact equivalents.


----------



## chowmein83

runeight said:


> 7DJ8 will be running 1V low on its heaters which will cause the cathode to run cooler which will reduce its emission. It may not give a good result. I'm not sure how this sub can be used in other products without significantly affecting the sound unless there is some internal compensation built in to the product. But I know that people are doing it.
> 
> I can only recommend that you all stay with 6922 or exact equivalents.



Thanks for the reply Alex! Now I know to just focus on the 6DJ8 family, and not be tempted by these other things which can be quite a bit cheaper.


----------



## terminatetrails

Last Christmas I gave you my heart...and we all know how that turned out 
So this Christmas I bought myself the LP, and am much happier! 
This may have already popped up on here but it bears repeating: the instructions say to use the balanced connection if at all possible, however, even SE with my Elegia, I am getting very enjoyable results- tight bass, incredible detail coming through, and more soundstage than is really expected on a closed hp.  
Can't wait to receive my balanced cable for my LCD-4z's to get a real impression of what they can do on this sweet amp.  So far my fav hp's on the LP are definitely the T1's.  Probably not the best pair I own overall, but they are just so sweet on the LP that I can listen forever and keep coming back to them.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

The LP handles the Abyss 1266 quite well, the Decemberists are performing for me, the bass impact and inky black background are wonderful.

To all of you on the Thread, have a Merry Christmas and a Blessed New Year!


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Arya just got here in time for Christmas, sounds great on the LP 

Have a blessed & Merry Christmas folks!


----------



## listen4joy

Hansotek, how the LP SQ  with HD800  compared to other amps like Wells Milo / Glenn OTL?  did this amp is the real deal?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Listening to the Tom Petty compilation on the Vinshine R2R>LP (Amperex PQ)> Abyss 1266, where the LP replaced my Lyr 3, the blacks are darker, the headstage superior, and even though the specs show the Lyr to be more powerful, the LP (as in volume setting) seems more powerful. I’m still a n Holliday, and impatiently awaiting my Blackwood Autuers. 

The LP and Abyss are an excellent pairing, while I haven’t heard the Abyss on a megabuck amplifier, this is hard to beat!


----------



## Wes S (Dec 27, 2018)

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Listening to the Tom Petty compilation on the Vinshine R2R>LP (Amperex PQ)> Abyss 1266, where the LP replaced my Lyr 3, the blacks are darker, the headstage superior, and even though the specs show the Lyr to be more powerful, the LP (as in volume setting) seems more powerful. I’m still a n Holliday, and impatiently awaiting my Blackwood Autuers.
> 
> The LP and Abyss are an excellent pairing, while I haven’t heard the Abyss on a megabuck amplifier, this is hard to beat!


How is the bass, compared to the Lyr 3?  This is going to be my next amp.  I have a stash of Amperex 7308's, that I have been saving for an amp just like this.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Has anybody had a good experience with the LP through it’s single ended output ?
I have a JVC hd 1000X with an attached SE cable, so I was wondering.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Wes S said:


> How is the bass, compared to the Lyr 3?  This is going to be my next amp.  I have a stash of Amperex 7308's, that I have been saving for an amp just like this.



I believe the bass is more impactful on the LP, maybe because of the blacker background. Plus, the soundstage is a bit wider, and much better depth. Listening to Gillian Welch’s album, “Boots No.1” on my Blackwood Autuers, it’s a magical combination.


----------



## Schwibbles

Serge Bernamej said:


> Has anybody had a good experience with the LP through it’s single ended output ?
> I have a JVC hd 1000X with an attached SE cable, so I was wondering.


Single-ended output sounds very nice. IMO, the difference between the SE and balanced outputs is minor. It's definitely there, but not as drastic as some people may have made it seem. 
I've been using an Audeze LCD-MX4 out of the SE output with great results.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Schwibbles said:


> Single-ended output sounds very nice. IMO, the difference between the SE and balanced outputs is minor. It's definitely there, but not as drastic as some people may have made it seem.
> I've been using an Audeze LCD-MX4 out of the SE output with great results.


Waw good to know ! I also have the mx4 ! Did you get it through the Amazon deal lately ?


----------



## Schwibbles

Serge Bernamej said:


> Waw good to know ! I also have the mx4 ! Did you get it through the Amazon deal lately ?


Haha I did. I'm deciding if I want to have them replaced as there was a chip in the paint near the top of the left cup right out of the box. It's minor but if I'm paying that much for headphones, I expect them to be perfect.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Schwibbles said:


> Haha I did. I'm deciding if I want to have them replaced as there was a chip in the paint near the top of the left cup right out of the box. It's minor but if I'm paying that much for headphones, I expect them to be perfect.


They are the smoothest headphone ever made...but can feel a bit congested or lack of air don’t you feel ? I think i prefer the LCD3.


----------



## Schwibbles

Serge Bernamej said:


> They are the smoothest headphone ever made...but can feel a bit congested or lack of air don’t you feel ? I think i prefer the LCD3.


I don't really notice congestion... But they definitely are smooth and could use a tiny bit more brilliance. I wish the upper midrange was just a little less recessed; I think that would help with clarity. It's really only noticeable in some songs.
Overall minor nitpicks with the sound. My biggest complaint is how strong the clamp is; they give me a headache if I wear them too long.

Interestingly enough, I notice the upper midrange recession less with the LP than I do some other amps like the Sprout100.


----------



## kumar402

How do they compare with Valhalla2 
I find Valhalla2 too bright to my liking with HD800s.
Does LP has more laid back sound. I'm looking for laid back amplifier.


----------



## torii

maybe a hybrid tube amp like the loxjie p20 is worth the experiment...Im really impressed with mine but its not ear bleeding loud with 300ohm balanced...matter of fact I would even use it unless balanced but it sounds super sweet.


----------



## Rattle

kumar402 said:


> How do they compare with Valhalla2
> I find Valhalla2 too bright to my liking with HD800s.
> Does LP has more laid back sound. I'm looking for laid back amplifier.



ANy tube rolling in the valhalla 2 ? I have not heard the 800 headphones but with 600 and 6xx JJ gold pins trimmed the top off the brightness a bit without killing upper frequency extension as far as I could tell. Platinum is a "thicker" sound, the valhalla 2 is thinner sounding with stock tubes which might give you that bright "appearance" maybe ?


----------



## greenkiwi

Just saw lions for $66 until tomorrow

https://reverb.com/item/9661637-gen...quicksilver-linestage-preamps-with-e88cc-6922


----------



## Rattle

greenkiwi said:


> Just saw lions for $66 until tomorrow
> 
> https://reverb.com/item/9661637-gen...quicksilver-linestage-preamps-with-e88cc-6922



Not familiar with reverb or audio tubes direct, any info, is it all legit ? Thanks for posting !


----------



## greenkiwi

I can't really speak to either from experience.  Both the site and seller have been around for a while.

While not a completely infalible source
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverb.com

Figured the seller had lots of feedback and I purchased with a credit card.


----------



## greenkiwi

I can't really speak to either from experience.  Both the site and seller have been around for a while.

While not a completely infalible source
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverb.com

Figured I purchased with a credit card


----------



## llcook51

Wildcatsare1 said:


> I believe the bass is more impactful on the LP, maybe because of the blacker background. Plus, the soundstage is a bit wider, and much better depth. Listening to Gillian Welch’s album, “Boots No.1” on my Blackwood Autuers, it’s a magical combination.


Listening to "Boots No. 1" on my Ether 2  on LP with Gold Lions. Natural soundstage and timber.


greenkiwi said:


> Just saw lions for $66 until tomorrow
> 
> https://reverb.com/item/9661637-gen...quicksilver-linestage-preamps-with-e88cc-6922


Gold Lions are a top choice at a reasonable price. I have used with both the Lyr2 and the LP.  They elevate the performance of both amps.


----------



## llcook51

Wildcatsare1 said:


> I believe the bass is more impactful on the LP, maybe because of the blacker background. Plus, the soundstage is a bit wider, and much better depth. Listening to Gillian Welch’s album, “Boots No.1” on my Blackwood Autuers, it’s a magical combination.


Listening to "Boots No. 1" on my Ether 2  on LP with Gold Lions. Natural soundstage and timber.


greenkiwi said:


> Just saw lions for $66 until tomorrow
> 
> https://reverb.com/item/9661637-gen...quicksilver-linestage-preamps-with-e88cc-6922


Gold Lions are a top choice at a reasonable price. I have used with both the Lyr2 and the LP.  They elevate the performance of both amps.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

kumar402 said:


> How do they compare with Valhalla2
> I find Valhalla2 too bright to my liking with HD800s.
> Does LP has more laid back sound. I'm looking for laid back amplifier.



Have a look at the AmpandSound Kenzie, or one of the Felix’s Audio’s OTLs.


----------



## llcook51

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Listening to the Tom Petty compilation on the Vinshine R2R>LP (Amperex PQ)> Abyss 1266, where the LP replaced my Lyr 3, the blacks are darker, the headstage superior, and even though the specs show the Lyr to be more powerful, the LP (as in volume setting) seems more powerful. I’m still a n Holliday, and impatiently awaiting my Blackwood Autuers.
> 
> The LP and Abyss are an excellent pairing, while I haven’t heard the Abyss on a megabuck amplifier, this is hard to beat!


The LP and the Ether 2 are also a great pairing. Frankly, I have not found a bad pairing with the LP. It becomes a matter of taste and what you expect or want to hear.


----------



## Rattle

Viva tubes on eBay store $64.57 shipped for gold lions use POPUPSAVINGS 15% off

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-New-...n-Lion-Reissue-6922-E88CC-Tubes-/122620297209


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Schwibbles said:


> I don't really notice congestion... But they definitely are smooth and could use a tiny bit more brilliance. I wish the upper midrange was just a little less recessed; I think that would help with clarity. It's really only noticeable in some songs.
> Overall minor nitpicks with the sound. My biggest complaint is how strong the clamp is; they give me a headache if I wear them too long.
> 
> Interestingly enough, I notice the upper midrange recession less with the LP than I do some other amps like the Sprout100.


Right, maybe not congested but the soundstage felt too small compared to LCD3. Might try it again and see.
I agree for comfort. I would keep them if they were lighter but it did not help that after testing them for a few days I got the most horrible back pain ever. Could not even s


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Has anybody found the stock tubes more enjoyable than the Gold Lions ?


----------



## Schwibbles (Dec 28, 2018)

I can't compare to the stock tubes because one died in the first 5 minutes of use and Monoprice still hasn't sent me a replacement. I'll go out and say I am not impressed by the Gold Lions...
From the beginning, I've been using some 60's Amperex (USA) tubes which I think sound incredible. They're warm (but not overly so) with excellent treble detail and extension. They definitely smooth the treble response a little.

I got the Gold Lions for Christmas and I had very high expectations from them because of all the praise on this thread. To my dismay, I thought they sounded pretty poor in comparison to the Amperex tubes that were half the price. The Amperex tubes have a mild warmth throughout the bass and midrange. Instead of the gentle warmth across the entire bass and midrange, the Gold Lions have a noticeably more present mid bass response that muddied the sound a little and masked some detail. The Gold Lion tubes come off as a little more forward up top. The treble isn't as smooth although they do have excellent treble detail and extension; easily just as good as the Amperex.
At the end of the day, I just didn't want to listen to the Platinum with the Gold Lions in it. I switched them back out for the Amperex tubes.



Serge Bernamej said:


> Right, maybe not congested but the soundstage felt too small compared to LCD3. Might try it again and see.
> I agree for comfort. I would keep them if they were lighter but it did not help that after testing them for a few days I got the most horrible back pain ever. Could not even s


I have only heard the LCD-3 for a short time like 8-10 months ago so it'd be impossible for me to compare. 
One of the things I really like about the MX4 is its soundstage presentation. It's not small like the HD600 or Utopia, but it's also not unnaturally wide like the HD800S. I thought it sounded very natural; it didn't strike me as too wide or too narrow.


----------



## Wes S (Dec 28, 2018)

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Have a look at the AmpandSound Kenzie, or one of the Felix’s Audio’s OTLs.


Or roll some Amperex 7308's, into the Valhalla 2, for more warmth.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Schwibbles said:


> I can't compare to the stock tubes because one died in the first 5 minutes of use and Monoprice still hasn't sent me a replacement. I'll go out and say I am not impressed by the Gold Lions...
> From the beginning, I've been using some 60's Amperex (USA) tubes which I think sound incredible. They're warm (but not overly so) with excellent treble detail and extension. They definitely smooth the treble response a little.
> 
> I got the Gold Lions for Christmas and I had very high expectations from them because of all the praise on this thread. To my dismay, I thought they sounded pretty poor in comparison to the Amperex tubes that were half the price. The Amperex tubes have a mild warmth throughout the bass and midrange. Instead of the gentle warmth across the entire bass and midrange, the Gold Lions have a noticeably more present mid bass response that muddied the sound a little and masked some detail. The Gold Lion tubes come off as a little more forward up top. The treble isn't as smooth although they do have excellent treble detail and extension; easily just as good as the Amperex.
> ...


I must say I've never ever felt the HD800S soundstage to be too wide; but then again maybe it's because I only listen to classical music.

As for the Stock tubes vs other tubes subject, I'm only in my very first hour of my LP (replacement unit), and although I love what I'm hearing (only using Gold Lions) I kind of remember a softer warmer more euphonic sound with the stock tubes when I first heard the LP with them a few weeks ago. Maybe the Gold Lions need burn in though.


----------



## Rattle

Schwibbles said:


> I can't compare to the stock tubes because one died in the first 5 minutes of use and Monoprice still hasn't sent me a replacement. I'll go out and say I am not impressed by the Gold Lions...
> From the beginning, I've been using some 60's Amperex (USA) tubes which I think sound incredible. They're warm (but not overly so) with excellent treble detail and extension. They definitely smooth the treble response a little.
> 
> I got the Gold Lions for Christmas and I had very high expectations from them because of all the praise on this thread. To my dismay, I thought they sounded pretty poor in comparison to the Amperex tubes that were half the price. The Amperex tubes have a mild warmth throughout the bass and midrange. Instead of the gentle warmth across the entire bass and midrange, the Gold Lions have a noticeably more present mid bass response that muddied the sound a little and masked some detail. The Gold Lion tubes come off as a little more forward up top. The treble isn't as smooth although they do have excellent treble detail and extension; easily just as good as the Amperex.
> At the end of the day, I just didn't want to listen to the Platinum with the Gold Lions in it. I switched them back out for the Amperex tubes.



The gold lions can be had for well under $70 a pair at times and right now $65, where can I get a pair of those Amperex, I'd pay $70 for a good pair.


----------



## Schwibbles

Serge Bernamej said:


> I must say I've never ever felt the HD800S soundstage to be too wide; but then again maybe it's because I only listen to classical music.
> 
> As for the Stock tubes vs other tubes subject, I'm only in my very first hour of my LP (replacement unit), and although I love what I'm hearing (only using Gold Lions) I kind of remember a softer warmer more euphonic sound with the stock tubes when I first heard the LP with them a few weeks ago. Maybe the Gold Lions need burn in though.


Ahh yeah, with classical they never sounded too wide. I just don't listen to much classical. Mainly rock, metal, pop punk, and pop, with a bunch of other genres thrown into the mix.


----------



## Schwibbles (Dec 28, 2018)

Rattle said:


> The gold lions can be had for well under $70 a pair at times and right now $65, where can I get a pair of those Amperex, I'd pay $70 for a good pair.


Back when I showed my parents where to buy them, they were $90-something for matched and balanced. I can't think of the site name at the moment. I know it was linked earlier in this thread.
I paid $48 for the matched Amperex tubes.

EDIT: It was The Tube Store where they were $50.95 each. I feel bad for asking for them for Christmas now that I don't like them. Oh well...


----------



## Rattle

Schwibbles said:


> Yeah back when I showed my parents where to buy them, they were $90-something for matched and balanced. I can't think of the site name at the moment. I know it was linked earlier in this thread.
> I paid $48 for the matched Amperex tubes.
> 
> EDIT: It was The Tube Store where they were $50.95 each. I feel bad for asking for them for Christmas now that I don't like them. Oh well...



where'd you get the Amperex for $48 ? you could always sell the GL's ...


----------



## llcook51

Listening to _Oscar Peterson Trio + One_ an album by Oscar Peterson, featuring Clark Terry. It is undoubtedly one of the finest jazz performances/ recordings ever. Oh my, the trumpet and flugelhorn of Terry; the driving piano of Peterson; together with Ray Brown's bass and Ed Thigpen's drums. The LP paired with the Ether 2 showcase all that sweetness and talent.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

What’s the exact model of the Amperex you’re talking about so I can research it ?


----------



## billbishere (Dec 28, 2018)

Here is mine, just got my Topping D10 today to go with it and replace my Fiio 10k DAC..


----------



## Rattle

billbishere said:


> Here is mine, just got my Topping D10 today to go with it and replace my Fiio 10k DAC..



Nice ! I have one of those, but this is the platinum thread haha


----------



## Wes S (Dec 28, 2018)

Serge Bernamej said:


> What’s the exact model of the Amperex you’re talking about so I can research it ?


Amperex 7308 gold pin made in USA.  I bought mine from Upscale Audio.


----------



## billbishere

Rattle said:


> Nice ! I have one of those, but this is the platinum thread haha




oops, sorry guys


----------



## tommyk (Dec 28, 2018)

tommyk said:


> As for promos: sign up on slickdeals.net and add a deal alert for "ebay coupon". eBay has them almost on every last Friday of the month and the best ones are at the end of the quarter. Now in holiday season they seem to have it even more often. The best ones are 15% off but usually the max amount is capped at $50. Once in a blue moon it is 20% with a small cap, like $25. This one is 10% but the cap is $100 so suitable for something like $700 Liquid Platinum, which also has free shipping via eBay vs some amount through Monoprice. LP is so new that Monoprice itself does not discount it yet - it is explicitly excluded in any holiday promo they run. If you can wait several months it might be a different story.


Obligatory eBay flash sale notification: finish your year with a bang and get 15% off on eBay today with POPUPSAVINGS until 6PM PST. This is a handy $100 off Liquid Platinum if you've been undecided. Or some tubes.


----------



## kumar402

Rattle said:


> ANy tube rolling in the valhalla 2 ? I have not heard the 800 headphones but with 600 and 6xx JJ gold pins trimmed the top off the brightness a bit without killing upper frequency extension as far as I could tell. Platinum is a "thicker" sound, the valhalla 2 is thinner sounding with stock tubes which might give you that bright "appearance" maybe ?


 Thanks, right now I'm using JJ E88CC gold pins with Valhalla2. It has certainly trimmed down the amp but it's still there. Have you tried JJ E88CC gold pins on LP. How is the performance


----------



## Rattle

kumar402 said:


> Thanks, right now I'm using JJ E88CC gold pins with Valhalla2. It has certainly trimmed down the amp but it's still there. Have you tried JJ E88CC gold pins on LP. How is the performance



Yep I moved them over with 40 hours on them when the LP was at about 70 hours. I like em little less airy seems to move the stage back a bit. Good extension on both ends and mids don't seem very different than the stock EH.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

runeight said:


> The power supply is universal, but it has a US plug. It should work anywhere with an adapter.


Mr Cavalli, may I ask if the sales are doing good ? This amp is so good I hope to see it last on Monoprice, really hope it's a success.


----------



## runeight

Serge Bernamej said:


> Mr Cavalli, may I ask if the sales are doing good ? This amp is so good I hope to see it last on Monoprice, really hope it's a success.



You know, I'd like to be able to answer this, but I don't know. 

My guess is pretty well, given the reception from the owners (once we got past the LPS thingy).


----------



## Serge Bernamej

runeight said:


> You know, I'd like to be able to answer this, but I don't know.
> 
> My guess is pretty well, given the reception from the owners (once we got past the LPS thingy).


I really hope it will last because I've had a few amps, a lot more $$$$$, and not as exciting and musical !!!! Seriously poeple, if you read this thread and you want the best value, THIS IS THE AMP!!!!!!!
I only hope it passes the test of durability !!!!!!!!!!! 
Chapeau bas Mr Cavalli !!!!


----------



## Zachik

Serge Bernamej said:


> Mr Cavalli, may I ask if the sales are doing good ? This amp is so good I hope to see it last on Monoprice, really hope it's a success.





runeight said:


> You know, I'd like to be able to answer this, but I don't know.
> 
> My guess is pretty well, given the reception from the owners (once we got past the LPS thingy).



Just like Mr. Cavalli, I do not know, but my gut feeling is that for a $700 amp - it is selling like hot cakes!


----------



## Serge Bernamej (Dec 30, 2018)

Seriously I don't expect this amp to be seen on the used market. I can't see anybody wanting to sell this for normal reasons. Mr Cavalli is modest ! He should be tooting his horns big time in here !!!!!!!
I own a BHA-1, A Taurus mkii, and have had a bunch of highly considered amps, and this LP is the most excitingly musical thing I've ever owned...I'm in love. I just hope the amp lasts !


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Serge Bernamej said:


> Seriously I don't expect this amp to be seen on the used market. I can't see anybody wanting to sell this for normal reasons. Mr Cavalli is modest ! He should be tooting his horns big time in here !!!!!!!
> I own a BHA-1, A Taurus mkii, and have had a bunch of highly considered amps, and this LP is the most excitingly musical thing I've ever owned...I'm in love. I just hope the amp lasts !



I know you were a bit hesitant at first, it’s great that you love the LP (I do as well)!


----------



## zpierce

This is my first serious headphone amp and I am feeling the love expressed by others on the forum!  I’m fairly new to the hobby so bear with me on a perhaps simpler question that I’ve been curious about for ages but is now burning due to my setup...

My question is related back to the volume / gain discussion. I am feeding the LP with a Pro-Ject S2 Digital pre box which is a dac and mini preamp. As such it has its own volume control. I’m also using the audioquest nightowl’s among other headphones.  They are low impedance and as others have pointed out, this amp is quite powerful. I can easily turn the dac output down a bit to tame the overall volume range / sensitivity on the LP, or I can just deal with a sensitive volume. I’m curious if there’s any meaningful degradation to the overall quality by lowering the input volume on the LP?  I believe conventional wisdom is to run things wide open from the source but is that just convention or are there significant benefits to doing more of the amplification earlier in the chain even if its “less musical” amplification in that device?


----------



## john57

A quick look at the Pro-Ject S2 Digital pre box and the gain control is digital attenuation. I would use the volume control on this DAC as full as possible as a limiter if you do not have useful volume range on the LP.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Wildcatsare1 said:


> I know you were a bit hesitant at first, it’s great that you love the LP (I do as well)!


Indeed my friend ! And I’m one of those who are definitely adoring the LP with stock tubes, more than the Gold Lions.
But this amp is preventing me from sleeping it’s so good.


----------



## Schwibbles

Schwibbles said:


> I can't compare to the stock tubes because one died in the first 5 minutes of use and Monoprice still hasn't sent me a replacement. I'll go out and say I am not impressed by the Gold Lions...
> From the beginning, I've been using some 60's Amperex (USA) tubes which I think sound incredible. They're warm (but not overly so) with excellent treble detail and extension. They definitely smooth the treble response a little.
> 
> I got the Gold Lions for Christmas and I had very high expectations from them because of all the praise on this thread. To my dismay, I thought they sounded pretty poor in comparison to the Amperex tubes that were half the price. The Amperex tubes have a mild warmth throughout the bass and midrange. Instead of the gentle warmth across the entire bass and midrange, the Gold Lions have a noticeably more present mid bass response that muddied the sound a little and masked some detail. The Gold Lion tubes come off as a little more forward up top. The treble isn't as smooth although they do have excellent treble detail and extension; easily just as good as the Amperex.
> ...



I suppose I should clarify a little. The Gold Lion tubes are are not bad tubes. Based on the hype about them here, I had very high expectations. They did not meet my expectations and they did not outperform the Amperex tubes (that I love) I had been using from the start.



Rattle said:


> where'd you get the Amperex for $48 ? you could always sell the GL's ...


I probably will sell the GL tubes: I'll likely post them to the classifieds soon. They're still essentially new.
I bought them used from eBay; here is the link to the exact listing. I was the only bidder.


----------



## llcook51

The LP paired with Mr Speakers Ether 2 is listening enjoyment at its very best. Total music "immersion"(the action of immersing someone or something in a liquid, Liquid Platinum that is.)


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Total immersion is exactly what the Liquid Platinum is all about. I’m gonna stop with the praises before being accused of spaming but it’s just so exciting.


----------



## sahmen

Serge Bernamej said:


> Total immersion is exactly what the Liquid Platinum is all about. I’m gonna stop with the praises before being accused of spaming but it’s just so exciting.



Lol! Well, you could also opt to do one lengthy full-blown review of the unit, talking about every aspect of its build, cosmetics,  SQ performance, and history of production,. You will then be able to praise the hell out of every aspect of it that you like, and also say what you do not like about it.

I am sure a lot of head-fiers will appreciate your efforts, but the best part is that the review might grant you the opportunity to get all the "praising" you can handle out of your system, in one place...

Or maybe not..., but then at that point, no-one can blame you for not having tried


----------



## john57

Can I control the AC power to the brick while the amp power switch is in the on position?


----------



## rlawli

You run the risk of throwing the LP's power LED into its red state. I use an isolating transformer to stabilize line voltage and isolate the LP from line noise and that works with no issues: just push in the LP power switch last.


----------



## runeight

john57 said:


> Can I control the AC power to the brick while the amp power switch is in the on position?



As follow up to rlawli's comments, this is not recommended. The LP needs to be turned on/off with its switch in order to reset the various timers that control the turn on of the amp.


----------



## LCMusicLover

john57 said:


> Can I control the AC power to the brick while the amp power switch is in the on position?


There’s no switch on the power supply. Are you thinking of plugging it into a power strip or something, and turning it on and off from that? Doesn’t seem like a good idea, but I’m no EE.


----------



## john57

Yes I am using a AC switching power center. Good thing I ask that question and I had the feeling that it may be a issue with this amp. With my other devices it is not a issue. It saves wear and tear on the device power switch and emergency power down due to storms or power surges. I am using an single point isolating transformer for all my devices. Thank you everyone for your quick reply and to Alex which I have meet twice. This was a pre-installation question.


----------



## sahmen (Jan 2, 2019)

I wonder whether anyone has tested this new LP-dedicated power supply from Zerozone :

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LPS-36-Low...-Liquid-Platinum-Cavalli-DC-36V-/132862087667

If anyone has used it with the Liquid Platinum, could you kindly share your opinions.  I would also like to know what @runeight and @atomicbob think about this unit and its specs, in the light of its possible appropriateness for the LP.

I am assuming that the warnings and caveats that have been expressed on this thread so far about using external LPS units for the LP, are essentially against *badly or inappropriately implemented LPS units, and not necessarily against all possible non-stock LPS units*, and especially, not against any LPS that might offer a genuine and legitimately grounded promise of elevating the performance of the LP to a level that is even higher than those of its already excellent stock SMPS. 

I have also noted the recommended power/up and power/down procedures to follow with the LP and its power supplies, but that procedure also happens to be the default one i normally follow, so I see no problem there.

In other words, I am looking at this whole LP/LPS question with an open-mind, as one of those "the devil is in the details" scenarios.  If this open-minded outlook has any flaws or downsides, I would be grateful if they are pointed out.

Thanks to @Muziqboy for posting the info about this unit on the LP/LPS thread:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cav...wer-supply-option.889962/page-2#post-14692280


----------



## UsoppNoKami

sahmen said:


> I wonder whether anyone has tested this new LP-dedicated power supply from Zerozone :
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/LPS-36-Low...-Liquid-Platinum-Cavalli-DC-36V-/132862087667
> 
> ...



That LPS in the photo is mine, I was the first to customise the spec for that unit with that vendor, found him on AliExpress.

My earlier post on the LPS is here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...-by-alex-cavalli.876406/page-55#post-14642702

Happy to report that my LP runs like a charm still, I am very careful with my power on-off sequencing for all of my gear. 

Pls search for @atomicbob 's posts on this matter before you decide whether to purchase an LPS.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

sahmen said:


> Lol! Well, you could also opt to do one lengthy full-blown review of the unit, talking about every aspect of its build, cosmetics,  SQ performance, and history of production,. You will then be able to praise the hell out of every aspect of it that you like, and also say what you do not like about it.
> 
> I am sure a lot of head-fiers will appreciate your efforts, but the best part is that the review might grant you the opportunity to get all the "praising" you can handle out of your system, in one place...
> 
> Or maybe not..., but then at that point, no-one can blame you for not having tried


Excellent remark my friend but I’ve never dones any thorough audio gear review in my life yet; i’m not that talented in English neither.
Happy new year !


----------



## runeight

sahmen said:


> I wonder whether anyone has tested this new LP-dedicated power supply from Zerozone :
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/LPS-36-Low...-Liquid-Platinum-Cavalli-DC-36V-/132862087667
> 
> ...



Keeping in mind UsoppNoKami's post, I still have to recommend against using an LPS, as per earlier comments from AtomicBob and me.

One has to ask, what advantage am I getting when I use an LPS? Most of the advantage that one thinks one is getting is higher current capacity and lower noise.

On the noise issue, measurements have shown that the Plat has a very low noise floor. Not much improvement, if any, with an LPS. Certainly no audible improvement bc noise floor can't be heard.

As for current, the SMPS that mates with the Platinum can deliver much more current than the amp can ever use. It is over specified. Thus, any additional current capacity that one might get from an LPS is not useful.

The risk is that the higher current capacity is in the form of big electrolytics at the output of the LPS and lack of current limiting on startup (as already discussed). And this is exactly what you don't want dumping into the control circuit of the Platinum.

So, MHO, is that there is little, if anything, to be gained, and definite risk of damage.


----------



## Rattle

For those are of that are happy with using the SMPS, is there a place we can source an extra one. I wouldn't mind just in case.


----------



## runeight

Rattle said:


> For those are of that are happy with using the SMPS, is there a place we can source an extra one. I wouldn't mind just in case.



Let me find out.


----------



## Inoculator

runeight said:


> Let me find out.



Additionally, do the Liquid Spark and Liquid Platinum use the same SMPS? Picked up a Liquid Spark for work and would be nice to be able to switch amps out without moving around cables.


----------



## Rattle

Inoculator said:


> Additionally, do the Liquid Spark and Liquid Platinum use the same SMPS? Picked up a Liquid Spark for work and would be nice to be able to switch amps out without moving around cables.



Spark is 36v 1.25a 
Platinum is 36v 1.5a 
Different brands


----------



## Inoculator

Rattle said:


> Spark is 36v 1.25a
> Platinum is 36v 1.5a
> Different brands



Appreciate the clarification. Count me as another person that would like to buy a couple spare power supplies to position at work/other places around the house.


----------



## Zachik

Rattle said:


> Spark is 36v 1.25a
> Platinum is 36v 1.5a
> Different brands


@runeight can confirm whether the LP's power supply could *safely *power the Spark (assuming the plug is the same...)


----------



## llcook51

Serge Bernamej said:


> Indeed my friend ! And I’m one of those who are definitely adoring the LP with stock tubes, more than the Gold Lions.
> But this amp is preventing me from sleeping it’s so good.


Sleep...it is so over-rated. Good music heals all.


----------



## runeight

Zachik said:


> @runeight can confirm whether the LP's power supply could *safely *power the Spark (assuming the plug is the same...)



Cannot. Different power demands.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

runeight said:


> Cannot. Different power demands.


Mr Cavalli, do you know after how many hours of use should I turn off the Cavalli ? And for how long should I let it off before reusing it ?

Thank you !


----------



## Phantaminum

Serge Bernamej said:


> Mr Cavalli, do you know after how many hours of use should I turn off the Cavalli ? And for how long should I let it off before reusing it ?
> 
> Thank you !



You should be able to run the amp indefinitely. As long as the tubes have life and the amp is fairly cool there shouldn’t be an issue.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Phantaminum said:


> You should be able to run the amp indefinitely. As long as the tubes have life and the amp is fairly cool there shouldn’t be an issue.


Well that's great !!!!! I don't care about the tubes life, if they die I replace them. But if it's no problem for the amp that I use it say 12 hours in a row, then great !!!!


----------



## john57

With my tube amps leaving it on 12 hours straight is better than switching it off and on several times during the day. However it is good a have a few hours of cooling off time as well. This is recommend by several tube amp designers. However during the hot summer days and my room just happens to be warm in spite of any AC I will tun off the amp after I listen to it in the morning. I then turn the amp back on in the evening and off when I sleep.


----------



## zpierce

My new balanced cable arrived today for my Audioquest Nightowl's and although I've still very much enjoyed the LP with the single ended output with these headphones, the balanced connection feels like a significant upgrade.  I'm not experienced enough to extoll the specific details but it feels more engaging. Most notably there was a quiet but audible background hum on the single ended output which wasn't there on my HD6XX with balanced connector and I'm happy to find it's also gone on my Nightowl's as well with the new balanced cable!

Long story short, that's one noticeable difference between single ended and balanced outputs in my case.


----------



## john57

Even with short cable runs balanced cables still have advantages specially when there is a few AC powered devices in the audio chain.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Swapped out my AudioGD R2R-R1 DAC tonight for the older AGD Master-11 Singularity. The pairing with the LP is stunningly good . Listening through the Hifiman Arya tonight & loving every minute of it


----------



## runeight

No that's wr


Serge Bernamej said:


> Mr Cavalli, do you know after how many hours of use should I turn off the Cavalli ? And for how long should I let it off before reusing it ?
> 
> Thank you !



There really isn't a rule on this. I run mine for as long as I am listening. If there are breaks in a long listening session then it becomes a bit subjective as to whether or not to turn it off. MHO is that just some common sense here should be good enough.

What I do not do is leave it on all the time. Over the years there has been a belief that some amps need to be on continuously (esp in the speaker world). This may or may not be true, but I do believe that my amps have never required that treatment. They should come to good SQ within 10 minutes or so of turn on. YMMV some.

Leaving properly designed amps on for long periods of time when not listening seems to me like needlessly putting miles on a car, driving it around continuously, but not really going anywhere. The car will wear out faster, but probably doesn't perform any better.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

runeight said:


> No that's wr
> 
> 
> There really isn't a rule on this. I run mine for as long as I am listening. If there are breaks in a long listening session then it becomes a bit subjective as to whether or not to turn it off. MHO is that just some common sense here should be good enough.
> ...


Thanks again for the insightful response Mr Cavalli !
Pretty amazing that we get to communicate directly with you like this.


----------



## Zachik

Serge Bernamej said:


> Thanks again for the insightful response Mr Cavalli !
> Pretty amazing that we get to communicate directly with you like this.


He's a great guy for sure!  Only met him once (2-3 months ago at RMAF) and been a real treat to chat with him for a while


----------



## newtophones07

Mine just arrived.  Quick question, if my DAC has a volume knob, is it better to;  option A) run the Liquid Amp at full volume and then control the sound output through the DAC volume control or option b) set the DAC to fixed volume (or max), and then use the volume control on the amp during playback?


----------



## LCMusicLover

newtophones07 said:


> Mine just arrived.  Quick question, if my DAC has a volume knob, is it better to;  option A) run the Liquid Amp at full volume and then control the sound output through the DAC volume control or option b) set the DAC to fixed volume (or max), and then use the volume control on the amp during playback?


As always, it depends 

There are two basic considerations:

1. Does your DAC do analog or digital attenuation.  If digital, then you should try to run it full out and attenuate volume at the LP

2. (Assuming analog attenuation) you can adjust volume on the DAC just fine, except if you are forced to the extremes on either control.  Too low and you might hit channel imbalance. Too high (on the DAC) and you could actually clip the output of the DAC on 'hot' tracks.

Note that I haven't heard channel imbalance from my LP, even when listening to Utopia, which require that I push the volume down around 8:00, since my DAC does not have volume control and provides pretty hot output, and Utopia are quite sensitive/efficient. 

Beyond that stuff, you could wander into "...my DAC|amp produces more distortion when it's near the top|bottom of its volume range..." or "...the volume pot on my DAC|amp is noisier than the..." 

Of course, this is all theoretical, and I don't know what DAC you're using, so take it with a grain of salt .


----------



## newtophones07

LCMusicLover said:


> As always, it depends
> 
> There are two basic considerations:
> 
> ...



Appreciate the breakdown. I'll max the DAC.  This is my first tube amp, so this may be a silly question, but are remote controls atypical on tube amps?  I would have preferred one.  

The volume pot on my LP has a slight sound leak at low volume, then at about 5% on the dial, the sound catches up and comes out in perfect channel alignment and clean. Anyone else experience this?

Also if the DAC is at low volume, and the LP is at max volume, I hear some background hiss on my cans (balanced dac input & balanced output), which aren't that sensitive. Is that just an issue with clipping, or do I maybe have an issue with the volume knob on the LP? When the DAC is maxed, and then the volume is controlled at the LP, no hiss in my cans. No way I can reach full volume on the LP, or course.  So this seems like the better playback alignment (option b).


----------



## greenkiwi

runeight said:


> Leaving properly designed amps on for long periods of time when not listening seems to me like needlessly putting miles on a car, driving it around continuously, but not really going anywhere. The car will wear out faster, but probably doesn't perform any better.



But you can always run it in reverse to get the miles off.


----------



## funch

Just ordered mine. Now to find an LPS, preferably a DIY design. I've built several of these, so may do another one: https://www.amb.org/audio/sigma11/


----------



## LCMusicLover

funch said:


> Just ordered mine. Now to find an LPS, preferably a DIY design. I've built several of these, so may do another one: https://www.amb.org/audio/sigma11/


@runeight has been pretty direct in stating that an LPS is neither needed nor desirable with the Liquid Platinum.


----------



## LCMusicLover

newtophones07 said:


> Appreciate the breakdown. I'll max the DAC.  This is my first tube amp, so this may be a silly question, but are remote controls atypical on tube amps?


Headphone amps in general ... some have remotes, some don’t.


> The volume pot on my LP has a slight sound leak at low volume, then at about 5% on the dial, the sound catches up and comes out in perfect channel alignment and clean. Anyone else experience this?


Very common for volume controls to be wonky at the very bottom of their ranges. Channel imbalance is the most common artifact, but leakage and noise are also relatively common.


> ...Also if the DAC is at low volume, and the LP is at max volume, I hear some background hiss on my cans (balanced dac input & balanced output), which aren't that sensitive. Is that just an issue with clipping, or do I maybe have an issue with the volume knob on the LP? When the DAC is maxed, and then the volume is controlled at the LP, no hiss in my cans. No way I can reach full volume on the LP, or course.  So this seems like the better playback alignment (option b).


Can’t be clipping unless you’re (close to) maxing the LP. And that (hiss) is not what clipping sounds like. This suggests that your DAC is a bit noisy, and since the signal from the DAC is very low, the signal and the noise get amplified more, resulting in audible hiss. You should probably run your DAC higher and turn the amp down to avoid this.


----------



## ls13coco

So far, this LP and massdrops 789 are on my to buy list, unsure about dac.
I was considering the Lyr 3 before this and have exhausted myself with days and nights of research. Could anyone shed some opinions to other hybrid amps under $700 versus the LP?  (Canadian dollar isn't so nice right now)

Thanks!


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Schwibbles said:


> I can't compare to the stock tubes because one died in the first 5 minutes of use and Monoprice still hasn't sent me a replacement. I'll go out and say I am not impressed by the Gold Lions...
> From the beginning, I've been using some 60's Amperex (USA) tubes which I think sound incredible. They're warm (but not overly so) with excellent treble detail and extension. They definitely smooth the treble response a little.
> 
> I got the Gold Lions for Christmas and I had very high expectations from them because of all the praise on this thread. To my dismay, I thought they sounded pretty poor in comparison to the Amperex tubes that were half the price. The Amperex tubes have a mild warmth throughout the bass and midrange. Instead of the gentle warmth across the entire bass and midrange, the Gold Lions have a noticeably more present mid bass response that muddied the sound a little and masked some detail. The Gold Lion tubes come off as a little more forward up top. The treble isn't as smooth although they do have excellent treble detail and extension; easily just as good as the Amperex.
> ...


What’s the name of the 
Amperex model you used ? Just Amperex 6922 ?


----------



## LCMusicLover

Serge Bernamej said:


> What’s the name of the Amperex model you used ? Just Amperex 6922 ?


<sticking my nose into other folks' conversation> Mine are PQ 6922 which say 'Made in Hungary':


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Thanks a lot !


----------



## Zachik

LCMusicLover said:


> <sticking my nose into other folks' conversation> Mine are PQ 6922 which say 'Made in Hungary':


*How do they compare to the gold lions?*
I just received my LP yesterday... still burning-in with the stock tubes, but looking to upgrade (to either gold lions or whatever else is better but not crazy expensive).


----------



## Schwibbles

Serge Bernamej said:


> What’s the name of the
> Amperex model you used ? Just Amperex 6922 ?



They say Amperex JAN6922 Made in U.S.A. 
The exact listing I bought can be found here. You can scroll through the pictures to see exactly what they look like.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Zachik said:


> *How do they compare to the gold lions?*
> I just received my LP yesterday... still burning-in with the stock tubes, but looking to upgrade (to either gold lions or whatever else is better but not crazy expensive).


Can't say yet -- only got a couple hours in, and didn't do any back-and-forth.  In fact, only listened with Ether 2 so far.  I'll report back once I get some time in with them, also with the NOS Siemens which are en-route.


----------



## toobuzz

ls13coco said:


> So far, this LP and massdrops 789 are on my to buy list, unsure about dac.
> I was considering the Lyr 3 before this and have exhausted myself with days and nights of research. Could anyone shed some opinions to other hybrid amps under $700 versus the LP?  (Canadian dollar isn't so nice right now)
> 
> Thanks!



I too, have spent an unhealthy amount of time over the holiday break researching for amps. I’ve had the Lyr 3 for a while now and just picked up an LP earlier this week.

I don’t think that you’re going to find any sub $700 hybrid amps better than those two.

These are seriously good pieces of gear. We  are expiriencing an awesome trend of innovative, inexpensive, and great sounding equipment right now!  Although I’ve had quality issues with the Cavalli gear.

My LC 1.0 is in for repair right now. The volume pot on the LP turns a full 1/4” before any sound comes out, then the left channel becomes audible for an 1/8”, then I finally have balanced channels!  Oh, and then I only have another quarter inch before the LP is rupturing my eardrums. All this and the pot is only at 9 o’clock (Clear, HD6xx, and AFO).

But... the LP is honestly exactly the sound signature that I’ve been seeking.


----------



## runeight

toobuzz said:


> I too, have spent an unhealthy amount of time over the holiday break researching for amps. I’ve had the Lyr 3 for a while now and just picked up an LP earlier this week.
> 
> I don’t think that you’re going to find any sub $700 hybrid amps better than those two.
> 
> ...



Can you offer (just for my own curiosity) a bit more info? The kind of vol pot behavior you are describing would (or should) easily have been caught at the factory. I know that they test them for channel balance BEFORE they are inserted into the amps. This was one of my requirements to allow licensing the design. 

May I ask what the signal level is coming in?


----------



## toobuzz

runeight said:


> May I ask what the signal level is coming in?



Hi Alex!  I have to say thank you for the joy that your products/designs have brought me. The LP is my 3rd (and favorite) of your designs. I also want to commend you on deciding to bring these to market in cooperation with MD and MP.  I’d much rather own 3 of your designs than simply wonder what the Liquid Crimson sounded like.

I’m running balanced out of the Yggdrasil A2 and also using the balanced output of the LP.


----------



## LCMusicLover

runeight said:


> ...May I ask what the signal level is coming in?





toobuzz said:


> ...I’m running balanced out of the Yggdrasil A2 and also using the balanced output of the LP.


Just to add a datapoint, I'm running a Denafrips Pontus balanced into the LP (spec says 4Vrms @ 1250 Ohms).  I have to set the LP pot quite low when listening to Utopia (say 7:00 to 8:30) but experience no channel imbalance.

By comparison, Yggy spec says 4Vrms @75 Ohms.


----------



## ls13coco

toobuzz said:


> I too, have spent an unhealthy amount of time over the holiday break researching for amps. I’ve had the Lyr 3 for a while now and just picked up an LP earlier this week.
> 
> I don’t think that you’re going to find any sub $700 hybrid amps better than those two.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info!
Would you say that the LP sounds more "colored" or "tubey" out of the box than the Lyr 3?

Yes, exactly how I landed on these. I do want a OTL amp one day, probably just the Darkvoice as 2 HP's will be 300ohm, but that makes up for just the minority so that is on the backburner for now.

That is concerning to hear, I've noticed quite a few issues online people have been having with both the Darkvoice, and this LP.
I'm thinking to allow enough time for a revision before purchase, if one happens that is.. if not, I will own a LP soon enough anyway.


----------



## toobuzz (Jan 4, 2019)

ls13coco said:


> Thanks for the info!
> Would you say that the LP sounds more "colored" or "tubey" out of the box than the Lyr 3?



I would say no. I’m running a Psvane UK-6SN7 and cannot really remember what the stock tubes sound like.  The Lyr 3 is the one that sounds like you are sacrificing things like sound stage and neutrality for some tube warmth along with Schiit grunt. 

The LP sacrifices nothing. It’s wide, super detailed, great bass and instrument separation. The tubes seem to give the LP this special midrange forwardness, just enough of it.


----------



## Zachik

LCMusicLover said:


> Can't say yet -- only got a couple hours in, and didn't do any back-and-forth.  In fact, only listened with Ether 2 so far.  I'll report back once I get some time in with them, also with the NOS Siemens which are en-route.


Please share your opinions after auditioning the gold lions and the Siemens NOS tubes. I have spent WAY too much on this hobby in the last couple months, so should probably wait a month before investing in more tubes...


----------



## newtophones07

toobuzz said:


> Although I’ve had quality issues with the Cavalli gear.
> 
> My LC 1.0 is in for repair right now. The volume pot on the LP turns a full 1/4” before any sound comes out, then the left channel becomes audible for an 1/8”, then I finally have balanced channels!  Oh, and then I only have another quarter inch before the LP is rupturing my eardrums. All this and the pot is only at 9 o’clock (Clear, HD6xx, and AFO).


Sounds eerily similar to what I am experiencing also, and posted a few pages back.  I LOVE the sound of the amp, it's exhilarating, but the volume knob is a slight concern.


----------



## john57

I used to have the original Lyr but never quite happy with it. It had some sort of dynamic compression to it. By the way I just received my Liquid Platinum. I wanted to thank tommyk for the eBay tip that save me $100.  I have my Liquid Platinum plugged into a unswitched AC outlet. If everything works out it will replace my custom Little Dot MK VI+.  I also have a brand new balanced DAC to drive the Liquid Platinum which will replace two of my Audio GD DAC's. I am surprised that the new DAC at a fraction of the cost of my previous DAC's over the years sounded very clear, detailed, crispy and dynamic. 
I like the case work on the Liquid Platinum with good ventilation design with vents on the front bottom, bottom center grill and the two long side vents on top. I have placed the Liquid Platinum on wood slats so that the front bottom. the bottom center grill  will have plenty free air for cooling. I like that the tube holes are beveled. Also the front panel light does not shine like a search light quite dim in that department. I have great respect for Alex Cavalli designs every-since I heard the Liquid Glass in the past.


----------



## funch

LCMusicLover said:


> @runeight has been pretty direct in stating that an LPS is neither needed nor desirable with the Liquid Platinum.



Thanks for the info. I've only read the first 30 pages and the last few of this thread, so I suppose I've missed that post. Time to resume my reading.


----------



## rockytopwiz

john57 said:


> I used to have the original Lyr but never quite happy with it. It had some sort of dynamic compression to it. By the way I just received my Liquid Platinum. I wanted to thank tommyk for the eBay tip that save me $100.  I have my Liquid Platinum plugged into a unswitched AC outlet. If everything works out it will replace my custom Little Dot MK VI+.  I also have a brand new balanced DAC to drive the Liquid Platinum which will replace two of my Audio GD DAC's. I am surprised that the new DAC at a fraction of the cost of my previous DAC's over the years sounded very clear, detailed, crispy and dynamic.
> I like the case work on the Liquid Platinum with good ventilation design with vents on the front bottom, bottom center grill and the two long side vents on top. I have placed the Liquid Platinum on wood slats so that the front bottom. the bottom center grill  will have plenty free air for cooling. I like that the tube holes are beveled. Also the front panel light does not shine like a search light quite dim in that department. I have great respect for Alex Cavalli designs every-since I heard the Liquid Glass in the past.


Which dac are you referring to?


----------



## Cho Worsh

newtophones07 said:


> Sounds eerily similar to what I am experiencing also, and posted a few pages back.  I LOVE the sound of the amp, it's exhilarating, but the volume knob is a slight concern.


My Almarro headphone amp had the same issue with too high a volume at a very low volume control setting. A local tube amp builder suggested replacing the linear taper volume pot with a log taper or hyperlog (audio) pot. He installed an Alps RK-17 series pot and that took care of it.


----------



## runeight

Cho Worsh said:


> My Almarro headphone amp had the same issue with too high a volume at a very low volume control setting. A local tube amp builder suggested replacing the linear taper volume pot with a log taper or hyperlog (audio) pot. He installed an Alps RK-17 series pot and that took care of it.



The pots on all the CA amps are audio (log) taper. I think this would be true on almost any amp I know about. I am surprised to hear of an amp that was using a linear pot unless it was in an atypical configuration.

The real issue is that the sources are very hot and the headphones (for the most part) are very sensitive. I wrote a long scree about this on another forum.


----------



## Cho Worsh

runeight said:


> The pots on all the CA amps are audio (log) taper. I think this would be true on almost any amp I know about. I am surprised to hear of an amp that was using a linear pot unless it was in an atypical configuration.
> 
> The real issue is that the sources are very hot and the headphones (for the most part) are very sensitive. I wrote a long scree about this on another forum.


----------



## jmac1516

Appears Monoprice just jacked the price on this amp by 15%!  Now around $800.


----------



## Cho Worsh

Thank you for the reply. Yes, I am familiar with the "scree".  Yet, I own several headphone amps designed by other pre-eminent designers like yourself and there is no volume control issue of this kind on any of them with the same sources. Just saying ...


----------



## runeight

Cho Worsh said:


> Thank you for the reply. Yes, I am familiar with the "scree".  Yet, I own several headphone amps designed by other pre-eminent designers like yourself and there is no volume control issue of this kind on any of them with the same sources. Just saying ...



Say all you want bc also true. I am working on this...


----------



## kumar402

jmac1516 said:


> Appears Monoprice just jacked the price on this amp by 15%!  Now around $800.


Oh luckily I got it for around $600 with eBay Offer with free shipping


----------



## Pharmaboy

runeight said:


> Keeping in mind UsoppNoKami's post, I still have to recommend against using an LPS, as per earlier comments from AtomicBob and me.
> 
> One has to ask, what advantage am I getting when I use an LPS? Most of the advantage that one thinks one is getting is higher current capacity and lower noise.
> 
> ...



One hopes your advice would be definitive & would lay to rest the idea that one must invest in an LPS. 

But audio nervosa being what it is, this seems unlikely...


----------



## alphanumerix1

that price hike is unfortunate.


----------



## LCMusicLover (Jan 5, 2019)

LCMusicLover said:


> Just to add a datapoint, I'm running a Denafrips Pontus balanced into the LP (spec says 4Vrms @ 1250 Ohms).  I have to set the LP pot quite low when listening to Utopia (say 7:00 to 8:30) but experience no channel imbalance.
> 
> By comparison, Yggy spec says 4Vrms @75 Ohms.


Well, guess I’m wrong. I was listening in bed last night — wanted some quiet music, and ran into imbalance when turning down Utopia. Note that the bottom ‘stop’ on the volume pot is about 7:00. Channel imbalance happened until close to 8:00. Luckily it goes away almost immediately at that point. However, I would have turned it down a bit more, but for the imbalance.

Gonna have to buy a passive preamp as my Nervosa is preventing me from enjoying my system w/ my active Emotiva in the chain.


----------



## runeight

Pharmaboy said:


> One hopes your advice would be definitive & would lay to rest the idea that one must invest in an LPS.
> 
> But audio nervosa being what it is, this seems unlikely...



Yep, I know that too...


----------



## runeight

LCMusicLover said:


> Well, guess I’m wrong. I was listening in bed last night — wanted some quiet music, and ran into imbalance when turning down Utopia. Note that the bottom ‘stop’ on the volume pot is about 7:00. Channel imbalance happened until close to 8:00. Luckily it goes away almost immediately at that point. However, I would have turned it down a bit more, but for the imbalance.
> 
> Gonna have to buy a passive preamp as my Nervosa is preventing me from enjoying my system w/ my active Emotiva in the chain.



This channel balance thing is really bugging me. May I ask what your source is? Are you going Bal in or RCA in? How are the Emotive speakers in the chain? 

Thanks.


----------



## LCMusicLover

runeight said:


> This channel balance thing is really bugging me. May I ask what your source is? Are you going Bal in or RCA in?...


Here’s my original post on the channel imbalance subject.


LCMusicLover said:


> Just to add a datapoint, I'm running a Denafrips Pontus balanced into the LP (spec says 4Vrms @ 1250 Ohms).  I have to set the LP pot quite low when listening to Utopia (say 7:00 to 8:30) but experience no channel imbalance.
> 
> By comparison, Yggy spec says 4Vrms @75 Ohms.


Note that this post was in error— should say:


> (Pontus) spec says 4.4 Vrms @ 1250 Ohms





runeight said:


> …How are the Emotive speakers in the chain?...


Sorry I wasn’t clear — Emotiva XSP-1 preamp. Chain is fully balanced.


----------



## runeight

LCMusicLover said:


> Here’s my original post on the channel imbalance subject.
> 
> Note that this post was in error— should say:
> 
> ...



Thanks. And you have the preamp vol set at 0, which should equal a gain of 1X from the preamp??


----------



## LCMusicLover

runeight said:


> Thanks. And you have the preamp vol set at 0, which should equal a gain of 1X from the preamp??


Sorry, again, guess I wasn’t clear. The imbalance I experienced was with the Pontus balanced out directly connected to the balanced inputs on the LP. There is no volume control on the Pontus.


----------



## runeight

LCMusicLover said:


> Sorry, again, guess I wasn’t clear. The imbalance I experienced was with the Pontus balanced out directly connected to the balanced inputs on the LP. There is no volume control on the Pontus.



Possibly. Or maybe I'm just a little slow. 

Thanks for the clarifications.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Cho Worsh said:


> Thank you for the reply. Yes, I am familiar with the "scree".  Yet, I own several headphone amps designed by other pre-eminent designers like yourself and there is no volume control issue of this kind on any of them with the same sources. Just saying ...



After 3 Posts your on here dissing the Designer, possibly you know what you’re talking about, or you’re simply a troll. Why don’t you give it a rest, develop a bit more of an identity, presence, and gravitas before tossing grenades.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

@runeight, I have several decent 6SN7’s laying about the place, any harm or disadvantages in using them with the proper converter in the LP?


----------



## toobuzz

runeight said:


> This channel balance thing is really bugging me. May I ask what your source is? Are you going Bal in or RCA in? How are the Emotive speakers in the chain?
> 
> Thanks.



The channel imbalance that I originally referenced was with the Yggdrasil (4V) balanced into the LP.  It seems that the imbalance is worse single ended out of the Hugo 1 (3V ?), which might make sense if the SE input is being doubled. I reduced the gain on the Hugo down some last night and it didn’t really help.  I’ll try reducing the gain on the Hugo even more tonight and see how it sounds and how the LP behaves.  I bought this amp specifically to run off balanced off the Yggy though.


----------



## Phantaminum

Wildcatsare1 said:


> @runeight, I have several decent 6SN7’s laying about the place, any harm or disadvantages in using them with the proper converter in the LP?



It'll probably blow the LP in a pretty spectacular way. 6SN7s pull .6 amps compared to the .3 amps that the 6922s pull.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Wildcatsare1 said:


> After 3 Posts your on here dissing the Designer, possibly you know what you’re talking about, or you’re simply a troll. Why don’t you give it a rest, develop a bit more of an identity, presence, and gravitas before tossing grenades.


I don’t know, seemed relatively innocuous to me. Even complimentary when he calls @runeight ’pre-eminent’. I think he’s just saying the issue is inconsistent with his expectations for the amp based on experience w/ other amps. Given @runeight comments, I suspect he would agree. The spec lists THD for 1 Vrms & 5 Vrms input levels, so our levels are in range.

But you can see the dilemma. Designer has to get full rated power from 1 Vrms inputs and turn 4 Vrms into (say) less than 1 mW to play my Utopia quietly out of the same pot, and accomplish within a part cost that works.

I’m sorry the gain switch didn’t make the final design.


----------



## franz12

I sent my unit back to Ebay. The volume knob was too stiff. Subtle volume adjustments were almost impossible on my unit.
In contrast, the volume knob on Cavalli liquid spark was silky smooth and way way better than the $700 product. So I am pretty sure my platinum had a defective volume knob.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

franz12 said:


> I sent my unit back to Ebay. The volume knob was too stiff. Subtle volume adjustments were almost impossible on my unit.
> In contrast, the volume knob on Cavalli liquid spark was silky smooth and way way better than the $700 product. So I am pretty sure my platinum had a defective volume knob.


I confirm that the volume knob on the LP is silky smooth.


----------



## LCMusicLover

franz12 said:


> I sent my unit back to Ebay. The volume knob was too stiff. Subtle volume adjustments were almost impossible on my unit.
> In contrast, the volume knob on Cavalli liquid spark was silky smooth and way way better than the $700 product. So I am pretty sure my platinum had a defective volume knob.


My kn ... <juvenile snicker> ... the knob on my LP is very smooth. Thank you for pointing this out — I hadn’t really noticed. It actually feels silky, with a consistent firmness which feel right.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

LCMusicLover said:


> I don’t know, seemed relatively innocuous to me. Even complimentary when he calls @runeight ’pre-eminent’. I think he’s just saying the issue is inconsistent with his expectations for the amp based on experience w/ other amps. Given @runeight comments, I suspect he would agree. The spec lists THD for 1 Vrms & 5 Vrms input levels, so our levels are in range.
> 
> But you can see the dilemma. Designer has to get full rated power from 1 Vrms inputs and turn 4 Vrms into (say) less than 1 mW to play my Utopia quietly out of the same pot, and accomplish within a part cost that works.
> 
> I’m sorry the gain switch didn’t make the final design.



My comments weren’t directed at you @LCMusicLover, I value your input, you are one of the people who led me to ZMF.


----------



## runeight

toobuzz said:


> The channel imbalance that I originally referenced was with the Yggdrasil (4V) balanced into the LP.  It seems that the imbalance is worse single ended out of the Hugo 1 (3V ?), which might make sense if the SE input is being doubled. I reduced the gain on the Hugo down some last night and it didn’t really help.  I’ll try reducing the gain on the Hugo even more tonight and see how it sounds and how the LP behaves.  I bought this amp specifically to run off balanced off the Yggy though.



MHO, send it back for a replacement. This amp does not behave this way and you don't have to live with it.


----------



## kumar402

I do get channel imbalance but as soon as I hit 8 on volume knob it goes away. However it is there between 7-8.
I am using Chord Mojo for input.  So to overcome it, I reduced the volume out from chord mojo so that I can go beyond 8 in LP. 
I am using HD800s balanced from LP


----------



## runeight

Gents, regarding comments made by various folks.........I do not feel offended in any way. I am unhappy about some of the issues you are having.

The Platinum is the result of almost 10 years of design evolution, beginning with the DIY EHHA project to the more advanced Liquid Fire to the top of the line Liquid Crimson to the fully balanced in a small package Platinum. This is a beautiful amp and I know how it performs both technically and sonically. Even though I'm 68, I can still hear. 

I expect that you guys will have many trouble-free years with it. There are always some problems with new production which are easily resolved one way or another. I would like to have all of this taken care of for those of you who have had issues.

And I'll be working on that to the extent that I can. In the meantime, if you have channel balance issues at very low rotation and you are certain that it is the Platinum then by all means ask for a replacement. If you are not certain, do a little experimenting until you are sure and then, if needed, ask for a replacement. I know that sending back and getting new can suck, but you should have a properly working product to enjoy and not have to fuss with.


----------



## toobuzz

runeight said:


> I expect that you guys will have many trouble-free years with it. There are always some problems with new production which are easily resolved one way or another. I would like to have all of this taken care of for those of you who have had issues.



I expect the same, and have no doubt that the Liquid Platinum will provide years of enjoyment for me.  I’ve detailed my experience here to help others determine if they may have a similar issue and also to provide @runeight additional info as he obviously wants the best experience for all of us.

Lowering the gain on the Hugo has certainly remedied the issue.  I am so happy with the performance of this amp.  The stock tubes have just about 50 hours on them at this point. I have a couple sets of tubes that I’ll be rolling in over the few days.


----------



## LCMusicLover

runeight said:


> Gents, regarding comments made by various folks.........I do not feel offended in any way. I am unhappy about some of the issues you are having....


Personally, I really appreciate your active engagement here. Thank you!


> .... Even though I'm 68, I can still hear. ...


So there’s still hope for my 63-year-old ears!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Phantaminum said:


> It'll probably blow the LP in a pretty spectacular way. 6SN7s pull .6 amps compared to the .3 amps that the 6922s pull.



Which is exactly why I asked, guess I’ll head EBAY and sell the remaining 6SN7s.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Which is exactly why I asked, guess I’ll head EBAY and sell the remaining 6SN7s.


What?!? You ASKED before you tried out a potentially destructive mod? That’s just crazy!


----------



## funch

LCMusicLover said:


> What?!? You ASKED before you tried out a potentially destructive mod? That’s just crazy!



ROFL. Some people just don't know how to do it wrong!


----------



## abvolt

Sure glad you @runeight chimed in I was looking at that power supply thanks..


----------



## runeight

LCMusicLover said:


> Personally, I really appreciate your active engagement here. Thank you!
> 
> So there’s still hope for my 63-year-old ears!



There is, but I can't guarantee for the rest of you.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

LCMusicLover said:


> What?!? You ASKED before you tried out a potentially destructive mod? That’s just crazy!


----------



## LCMusicLover

An amusing add-on to the channel imbalance thing. I decided to try my other two amps (Bryston BHA-1 & MassDrop LC-X) without my preamp in the chain for attenuation.

Bryston first — hooked it up, plugged in Utopia (4-pin XLR jack). Set to high gain, volume all the way down, turned it on and ... I’m hearing very imbalanced audio — with pot literally all the way down. Tried on low gain, same thing a little quieter (duh). Scratching my head, turn it off and back on ... same thing.

Then I remembered that the previous owner had mentioned occasional channel imbalance and said that switching inputs sent it away. Flipped the switch back and forth and ... sure enough, imbalance is gone. But ... still playing at a quiet-but-listenable level. Odd.

Switching to my LC-X, the story is much simpler. Silent with the pot all the way down & no imbalance at any audible volume level on high or low gain.


----------



## john57 (Jan 6, 2019)

Sounds like you narrow down a bit the problem. I did not think that the pot itself was the problem since Alex stated that he had procedures in place that all volume pots parts are to be carefully check out in manufacturing.


----------



## ls13coco (Jan 6, 2019)

jmac1516 said:


> Appears Monoprice just jacked the price on this amp by 15%!  Now around $800.



Oh no! Now that's over $1000 before tax/shipping etc in Canada.. guess Lyr it is


----------



## LCMusicLover

ls13coco said:


> Oh no! Now that's over $1000 before tax/shipping etc in Canada.. guess Lyr it is


I don’t suppose you’d be able to get the eBay discount, either?


----------



## ls13coco

LCMusicLover said:


> I don’t suppose you’d be able to get the eBay discount, either?



Just jumped to eBay after you said that, looks to be $1051 or so on .CA, 800 .com
Well, maybe there will be a sale when I'm ready!
Funnily I was originally hoping for a sale at some point this year, now it looks like I'd be hoping for a sale to the old price.


----------



## john57

With all trade issues happening today it may take a while for prices to settle down. My all stainless steel air fryer without any Teflon nonstick coating for birds safety has double in price two weeks after I brought it and I wanted another. 
I got chewed out on another forum when someone was saying that the Liquid Platinum was too dry. I was not sure what that means but was trained that a dry signal is direct or equipment is without any effects added like a distortion pedal or EQ like a straight connection from a guitar. First time I heard dry as a tone of sorts.


----------



## LCMusicLover (Jan 7, 2019)

john57 said:


> With all trade issues happening today it may take a while for prices to settle down. My all stainless steel air fryer without any Teflon nonstick coating for birds safety has double in price two weeks after I brought it and I wanted another.
> *I got chewed out on another forum when someone was saying that the Liquid Platinum was too dry. *I was not sure what that means but was trained that a dry signal is direct or equipment is without any effects added like a distortion pedal or EQ like a straight connection from a guitar. First time I heard dry as a tone of sorts.


Saw that 
<edit>
Actually, the next post after your ... _reprimand _... gave a succinct and useful definition.  Works for me -- consistent with I found/posted below.
</edit>

Personally, I don’t get this:

Difference Between Wet and Dry Signals or Sounds

from most of the usage of ‘wet’ in posts here — or over there. Certainly doesn’t seem like any specific tonality.


----------



## runeight

LCMusicLover said:


> Saw that
> <edit>
> Actually, the next post after your ... _reprimand _... gave a succinct and useful definition.  Works for me -- consistent with I found/posted below.
> </edit>
> ...



What they are actually saying is that the Platinum is accurate to the original sound as given to it by the source. Saying it is too Dry makes this a negative when MHO opinion is that it is a positive.


----------



## LCMusicLover

runeight said:


> What they are actually saying is that the Platinum is accurate to the original sound as given to it by the source. Saying it is too Dry makes this a negative when MHO opinion is that it is a positive.


Yes, you hear tube amp aficionados talking about 'syrupy' amps.  Doesn't sound appealing to me, but you wouldn't expect that, given the headphones I gravitate towards.

My ears, their ears I guess


----------



## LCMusicLover

BTW, Siemens NOS E88CCs are sitting in my PO Box -- I was too lazy to come into town over the weekend to pick them up.  They'll pop into the LP this evening, completing my initial set of tubes (Stock EH, Genalex Gold Lions, Amperex PQ 6922, Siemens).  I figure I'll get a good sense of what's possible and what I'm looking for out of tube rolling.  At least I'll be able to talk somewhat knowledgeably about how different tubes work with different cans.  Sure didn't want to spring for more expensive tubes before learning A LOT more.

Current damages:  $600 amp, $68 GLs, $83 Amperex, $101 Siemens -- so $852 total.  Turns out that 15% eBay discount can really add up


----------



## Wildcatsare1

LCMusicLover said:


> BTW, Siemens NOS E88CCs are sitting in my PO Box -- I was too lazy to come into town over the weekend to pick them up.  They'll pop into the LP this evening, completing my initial set of tubes (Stock EH, Genalex Gold Lions, Amperex PQ 6922, Siemens).  I figure I'll get a good sense of what's possible and what I'm looking for out of tube rolling.  At least I'll be able to talk somewhat knowledgeably about how different tubes work with different cans.  Sure didn't want to spring for more expensive tubes before learning A LOT more.
> 
> Current damages:  $600 amp, $68 GLs, $83 Amperex, $101 Siemens -- so $852 total.  Turns out that 15% eBay discount can really add up




All too true, home sick (darn it), but absolutely loving Lucinda Williams serenading vía the awesome LP and ZMF Autuers, think I might be “sick” tomorrow as well .


----------



## Rattle

So far I have the electro harmonix LP came with. JJ gold pins and the gold lions. I'll be grabbing a different pair not sure which yet. Going to stock up for my end game amp.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Wildcatsare1 said:


> All too true, home sick (darn it), but absolutely loving Lucinda Williams serenading vía the awesome LP and ZMF Autuers, think I might be “sick” tomorrow as well .


This!  

West


----------



## kumar402

LCMusicLover said:


> BTW, Siemens NOS E88CCs are sitting in my PO Box -- I was too lazy to come into town over the weekend to pick them up.  They'll pop into the LP this evening, completing my initial set of tubes (Stock EH, Genalex Gold Lions, Amperex PQ 6922, Siemens).  I figure I'll get a good sense of what's possible and what I'm looking for out of tube rolling.  At least I'll be able to talk somewhat knowledgeably about how different tubes work with different cans.  Sure didn't want to spring for more expensive tubes before learning A LOT more.
> 
> Current damages:  $600 amp, $68 GLs, $83 Amperex, $101 Siemens -- so $852 total.  Turns out that 15% eBay discount can really add up


Do let us know your view on each and which one you liked the most


----------



## toobuzz

Rattle said:


> So far I have the electro harmonix LP came with. JJ gold pins and the gold lions. I'll be grabbing a different pair not sure which yet. Going to stock up for my end game amp.



I’m also on the lookout for another pair of tubes. I didn’t really like the Matsushite/National PCC88. They have a full, thick tone/timber, but really are lacking in macrodynamics (boring).  Also, the top end is quite a bit rolled off compared the stock EH tubes. 

I’m currently assessing a pair of 1978 Voskhok 6N23P. These were my favorite tune with my Lyr 2 and I really do like them with the LP, but I’m still forming my opinion on them.


----------



## LCMusicLover

kumar402 said:


> Do let us know your view on each and which one you liked the most


Yes, I will, but I expect it will take a while.  Switching everything around is a pain, since swapping tubes requires an amp shutdown/restart.  A minute (or so) doesn't seem like that long a wait, until it's the 11th time in the past two hours 

I'll probably install tubes, rotate through my cans and form opinions about pairings with that tube, then switch to the next tubes and repeat.  Once I've done that, I'll run a sort of Champions League playoff, compare the 'best pairings'.

I can see where this could get really complicated and time-consuming, detracting from actually enjoying the music.  I'll attempt to avoid that.


----------



## Rattle

toobuzz said:


> I’m also on the lookout for another pair of tubes. I didn’t really like the Matsu****e/National PCC88. They have a full, thick tone/timber, but really are lacking in macrodynamics (boring).  Also, the top end is quite a bit rolled off compared the stock EH tubes.
> 
> I’m currently assessing a pair of 1978 Voskhok 6N23P. These were my favorite tune with my Lyr 2 and I really do like them with the LP, but I’m still forming my opinion on them.



I'd like to grab some Amperex but I'm so confused between "PQ" and "Bugle Boy" and what sounds like what. Lots of options.


----------



## skyline315

Rattle said:


> I'd like to grab some Amperex but I'm so confused between "PQ" and "Bugle Boy" and what sounds like what. Lots of options.


Read this.  It'll help: http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm


----------



## franz12

LCMusicLover said:


> BTW, Siemens NOS E88CCs are sitting in my PO Box -- I was too lazy to come into town over the weekend to pick them up.  They'll pop into the LP this evening, completing my initial set of tubes (Stock EH, Genalex Gold Lions, Amperex PQ 6922, Siemens).  I figure I'll get a good sense of what's possible and what I'm looking for out of tube rolling.  At least I'll be able to talk somewhat knowledgeably about how different tubes work with different cans.  Sure didn't want to spring for more expensive tubes before learning A LOT more.
> 
> Current damages:  $600 amp, $68 GLs, $83 Amperex, $101 Siemens -- so $852 total.  Turns out that 15% eBay discount can really add up



Well, on the other side, I do see that the sum of your headphone collection is heading to 15k at their MSRP


----------



## LCMusicLover

franz12 said:


> Well, on the other side, I do see that the sum of your headphone collection is heading to 15k at their MSRP


I can assure you that I've never paid MSRP for any headphone (except my iBasso IEMs) or electronics.  Closest to list for cans are my Auteur at the pre-order discount.  Utopia were new on the Adorama open-box sale for $... well, let's just say less than 60% of list.  Everything else is used -- though I did pay $1700 for my barely used Ether 2. So gauged by % of MSRP, Auteur and E2 are about tied for most expensive.

I'd have to check, but I suspect I'm between $9 and 10k for headphones.  Another $4 - 5K for electronics (and tubes ).  Not to mention _mumble mumble cables mumble mumble_.

Still, a cheap hobby compared to say, flying, or even skiing. And there are probably folks out there who have spent more for 1 Stax setup.  He!!, just picking up a Dave & Utopia at list would get you to the cost of all my gear.


----------



## llcook51

runeight said:


> What they are actually saying is that the Platinum is accurate to the original sound as given to it by the source. Saying it is too Dry makes this a negative when MHO opinion is that it is a positive.


The LP is ultimately accurate. It reproduces what you feed it. If you do not like what you hear, then change what you are feed it. If the source is bad, the LP will let you know.


----------



## Zachik

LCMusicLover said:


> Yes, I will, but I expect it will take a while.  Switching everything around is a pain, since swapping tubes requires an amp shutdown/restart.  A minute (or so) doesn't seem like that long a wait, until it's the 11th time in the past two hours
> 
> I'll probably install tubes, rotate through my cans and form opinions about pairings with that tube, then switch to the next tubes and repeat.  Once I've done that, I'll run a sort of Champions League playoff, compare the 'best pairings'.
> 
> I can see where this could get really complicated and time-consuming, detracting from actually enjoying the music.  I'll attempt to avoid that.


Some of us (like me...) are patiently waiting for some impressions... 
I was going to buy new Genalex Gold Lions, but due to your (and couple other) posts - I am withholding for potentially better tubes at non-crazy prices. The Genalex, being new, are the easiest to find from multiple sources (and cheapest) but if something else in same ballpark is WAY better.........


----------



## Serge Bernamej

I got the Gold Lions and sold them. Prefer the warmer sound of stock. I wonder of there are tubes that have the same sound sig as stock but better. In any case the LP with stock is absolutely wonderful and am in no hurry to upgrade.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Zachik said:


> Some of us (like me...) are patiently waiting for some impressions...
> I was going to buy new Genalex Gold Lions, but due to your (and couple other) posts - I am withholding for potentially better tubes at non-crazy prices. The Genalex, being new, are the easiest to find from multiple sources (and cheapest) but if something else in same ballpark is WAY better.........


I’ll happily bring my impressions, but I already have the feeling that this very much ‘my ears, your ears’.


----------



## Rattle

skyline315 said:


> Read this.  It'll help: http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm



Understatement ! It helped tons ! I might get some "butt uglies" !
thanks for the link


----------



## Zachik

Serge Bernamej said:


> I got the Gold Lions and sold them. Prefer the warmer sound of stock. I wonder of there are tubes that have the same sound sig as stock but better. In any case the LP with stock is absolutely wonderful and am in no hurry to upgrade.


I am not ruling out just keeping the stock tubes.


----------



## Zachik

LCMusicLover said:


> I’ll happily bring my impressions, but I already have the feeling that this very much ‘my ears, your ears’.


I know how that works, but always interested in reading people's opinions...


----------



## Rattle

Serge Bernamej said:


> I got the Gold Lions and sold them. Prefer the warmer sound of stock. I wonder of there are tubes that have the same sound sig as stock but better. In any case the LP with stock is absolutely wonderful and am in no hurry to upgrade.



How long did you run the gold lions ? I was unimpressed at first compared to the JJ's and the EH can be had for $30 a pair. I'm going on 20 hours on the gold lions now and they seem to be sweetening up. More air and punch with great mids, I thought they kind of sounded off at first though.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Rattle said:


> How long did you run the gold lions ? I was unimpressed at first compared to the JJ's and the EH can be had for $30 a pair. I'm going on 20 hours on the gold lions now and they seem to be sweetening up. More air and punch with great mids, I thought they kind of sounded off at first though.


I confess not many hours but I don't believe in radical changes. I liked the stock tubes right off the box. I don't deny the GL had more soundstage, bass and highs...but that's not what I'm looking for; otherwise I'd go with a SS amp. I want that warm feeling, and the stock tubes, even if cheap, give me that.


----------



## Rattle

Serge Bernamej said:


> I confess not many hours but I don't believe in radical changes. I liked the stock tubes right off the box. I don't deny the GL had more soundstage, bass and highs...but that's not what I'm looking for; otherwise I'd go with a SS amp. I want that warm feeling, and the stock tubes, even if cheap, give me that.



that's cool, doesn't have to be radical, there's subtle changes that do happen though, I agree if they are not to your liking that much they won't change into something good. From what I been reading if you want warmth over all else british tubes do that. The gold lions seem much more balanced sounding though so far, not as warm as the EH not as deep as the JJ but very balanced throughout. Really like percussion on them so far.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Rattle said:


> that's cool, doesn't have to be radical, there's subtle changes that do happen though, I agree if they are not to your liking that much they won't change into something good. From what I been reading if you want warmth over all else british tubes do that. The gold lions seem much more balanced sounding though so far, not as warm as the EH not as deep as the JJ but very balanced throughout. Really like percussion on them so far.


Interesting. And could you suggest a specific good warm tube ?


----------



## Rattle

Serge Bernamej said:


> Interesting. And could you suggest a specific good warm tube ?



well I only been messing with tubes a couple years, i'm no expert but skyline315 shared a link earlier that has a great rundown and talks about tube attributes a bit.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...-by-alex-cavalli.876406/page-77#post-14703885


*MULLARD, GENALEX, BRIMAR, and other British made NOS: *Like a warm British jacket of the finest tweed, these glorious tubes have an attractive sweet warmth in their midrange and lower regions. The top end is silky and pleasant, without being rolled-off. The best of these tubes retain a fine sense of "air" at the top, and the upper midrange is smooth and liquid. These tubes reproduce the human voice, especially female voices, with haunting realism. The 1970s Mullard made have an attractive sparkle at the top with the rich bass, and these tubes are usually priced less than the older types.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Rattle said:


> that's cool, doesn't have to be radical, there's subtle changes that do happen though, I agree if they are not to your liking that much they won't change into something good. From what I been reading if you want warmth over all else british tubes do that. The gold lions seem much more balanced sounding though so far, not as warm as the EH not as deep as the JJ but very balanced throughout. Really like percussion on them so far.



I ran a pair of Gold Lions for a week to bed them in nicely. Didn't care for them, they are smooth but too 'polite'.. was missing some energy and bass slam compared to my Mullard-made Philips SQ. These have a pretty natural sounding warm tone without losing detail up top.




Waiting for the postman to deliver '75 Reflektors, excited to hear them


----------



## Rattle

UsoppNoKami said:


> I ran a pair of Gold Lions for a week to bed them in nicely. Didn't care for them, they are smooth but too 'polite'.. was missing some energy and bass slam compared to my Mullard-made Philips SQ. These have a pretty natural sounding warm tone without losing detail up top.
> 
> 
> 
> Waiting for the postman to deliver '75 Reflektors, excited to hear them



I can agree with the politeness on the gold lions, they seem more uncolored to me than EH or JJ I guess. The JJ's had more heft for sure, deeper sound but more narrow. Gold lions are WIDE sounding... love the way drums sound on them I have to admit.


----------



## Zachik

Rattle said:


> *MULLARD, GENALEX, BRIMAR, and other British made NOS: *Like a warm British jacket of the finest tweed, these glorious tubes have an attractive sweet warmth in their midrange and lower regions. The top end is silky and pleasant, without being rolled-off. The best of these tubes retain a fine sense of "air" at the top, and the upper midrange is smooth and liquid. These tubes reproduce the human voice, especially female voices, with haunting realism. The 1970s Mullard made have an attractive sparkle at the top with the rich bass, and these tubes are usually priced less than the older types.


Judging by this piece, the gold lions by Genalex should be warm "like a British jacket of the finest tweed"... But @UsoppNoKami and yourself agree they're too polite.
So, repeating @Serge Bernamej - which tubes for LP would give a nice warm sound? (I am still burning-in the stock EH...)


----------



## Rattle

Zachik said:


> Judging by this piece, the gold lions by Genalex should be warm "like a British jacket of the finest tweed"... But @UsoppNoKami and yourself agree they're too polite.
> So, repeating @Serge Bernamej - which tubes for LP would give a nice warm sound? (I am still burning-in the stock EH...)



I didn't see the politeness as a negative though. They seem very balanced sounding and wide. Depending on what people listen to it might be a positive. I can't say how warm they are as I have never heard older warmer sounding tubes. JJ's stand out more than EH or GL's for me.


----------



## skyline315

Zachik said:


> Judging by this piece, the gold lions by Genalex should be warm "like a British jacket of the finest tweed"... But


This article has nothing to do with new production tubes...so, no...it says nothing of the sort. Plus, aren't Genalex tubes made in Russia?


----------



## hemtmaker

@runeight, so having channel imbalance at low volume is normal? Mine does the same thing but as soon as the volume pot goes above 8 o’clock or so, it disappears


----------



## Phantaminum (Jan 8, 2019)

Zachik said:


> Judging by this piece, the gold lions by Genalex should be warm "like a British jacket of the finest tweed"... But @UsoppNoKami and yourself agree they're too polite.
> So, repeating @Serge Bernamej - which tubes for LP would give a nice warm sound? (I am still burning-in the stock EH...)



The Genalex are warm tubes but what you’re describing are the sound for Mullard tubes. If you want a more refined warm tube you can look for a pair of Amperex 6DJ8 Orange Globes, Amperex ECC88, or if you want warm with a little more higher end extension then then Amperex 6922 (the earlier year the better).

Can’t say more about the new production tubes.


----------



## Zachik

skyline315 said:


> *This article has nothing to do with new production tubes...so, no...*it says nothing of the sort. Plus, aren't Genalex tubes made in Russia?


Good point!
As for production - new ones (I believe) are produced in Russia. From reading around, sounds like they used to be produced elsewhere in the 60s?


----------



## llcook51

LCMusicLover said:


> This!
> 
> West


Understandable.


----------



## skyline315

FWIW, I ordered a matched pair of Amperex Orange Label A-frame (Made in Holland) tubes from Brent Jesse this morning.  $85 for the matched pair.

I'm hoping the sound will be similar to my Mullard A-frame (made in Gt. Britain), which is my favorite tube of all time.  Fingers crossed.

I'll let everyone know how it goes.


----------



## llcook51

Rattle said:


> How long did you run the gold lions ? I was unimpressed at first compared to the JJ's and the EH can be had for $30 a pair. I'm going on 20 hours on the gold lions now and they seem to be sweetening up. More air and punch with great mids, I thought they kind of sounded off at first though.


I have about 100 hours on my Golds. They do improve with use, at least during the first 50 hours or so. My ears....yours may vary.


----------



## llcook51

skyline315 said:


> FWIW, I ordered a matched pair of Amperex Orange Label A-frame (Made in Holland) tubes from Brent Jesse this morning.  $85 for the matched pair.
> 
> I'm hoping the sound will be similar to my Mullard A-frame (made in Gt. Britain), which is my favorite tube of all time.  Fingers crossed.
> 
> I'll let everyone know how it goes.


That sounds like a good price. I am anxious to hear your impressions.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Zachik said:


> Judging by this piece, the gold lions by Genalex should be warm "like a British jacket of the finest tweed"... But @UsoppNoKami and yourself agree they're too polite.
> So, repeating @Serge Bernamej - which tubes for LP would give a nice warm sound? (I am still burning-in the stock EH...)





UsoppNoKami said:


> I ran a pair of Gold Lions for a week to bed them in nicely. Didn't care for them, they are smooth but too 'polite'.. was missing some energy and bass slam compared to my Mullard-made Philips SQ. *These have a pretty natural sounding warm tone without losing detail up top*.
> 
> 
> 
> Waiting for the postman to deliver '75 Reflektors, excited to hear them


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Phantaminum said:


> The Genalex are warm tubes but what you’re describing are the sound for Mullard tubes. If you want a more refined warm tube you can look for a pair of Amperex 6DJ8 Orange Globes, Amperex ECC88, or if you want warm with a little more higher end extension then then Amperex 6922 (the earlier year the better).
> 
> Can’t say more about the new production tubes.



Love the Mullard sound, have 12au7 Mullards in my Cayin HA-1A mk2 amp as well.

Now if only the postman would deliver my Reflektor's already .... :/


----------



## LCMusicLover

Serge Bernamej said:


> ...I don't deny the GL had more soundstage, bass and highs...but that's not what I'm looking for; otherwise I'd go with a SS amp. I want that warm feeling, and the stock tubes, even if cheap, give me that.


I get that, but I'm hearing things from LP/GL/Utopia & Auteur that I don't hear from my Bryston.  


Rattle said:


> I can agree with the politeness on the gold lions, they seem more uncolored to me than EH or JJ I guess. The JJ's had more heft for sure, deeper sound but more narrow. Gold lions are WIDE sounding... love the way drums sound on them I have to admit.


You just need to feed them the right cans -- politeness w/ Utopia works beautifully!

Seriously, I can already tell that I'm gonna be swapping tubes when I change cans.  Utopia/Auteur + GLs -- Planars + Amperex & Siemens.

As an aside, LP & Siemens made me finally hear what all the HD-650/6xx fuss is about.  You hear all this talk about how great they are and how anything more expensive is a waste -- I never got that.  Of course I owned Utopia before I got 6xx.  So when I first got 6xx, I was a bit '...meh, what's all the fuss about?' Last night after I swapped in my Siemens, I was doing a quick run through with all my cans, and 6xx really surprised me.  Veil pretty much gone, and bass became more extended and impactful.  Not gonna unseat my TOTL cans, but actually quite nice.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

I think I may have a problem with my LP.  It used to go through the warm up process and make a single click and the LED turned from red to white.  Now it makes a weird multi clicking kinda sound.  I took a short video with audio but haven't figured out how to post it.


----------



## runeight

4LoveOfSound said:


> I think I may have a problem with my LP.  It used to go through the warm up process and make a single click and the LED turned from red to white.  Now it makes a weird multi clicking kinda sound.  I took a short video with audio but haven't figured out how to post it.



Not necessarily. It is determining whether the average DC at the output is low enough. Is there music playing with the volume up?


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

runeight said:


> Not necessarily. It is determining whether the average DC at the output is low enough. Is there music playing with the volume up?


Once the LED turns white, music starts playing and it sounds great.  It just didn’t make this many clicks before.  I’m listening with E-MU Teaks with a balanced cable.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

runeight said:


> Not necessarily. It is determining whether the average DC at the output is low enough. Is there music playing with the volume up?


I ‘ll add that it makes the same noise wether the headphones are plugged in or not


----------



## runeight

4LoveOfSound said:


> I ‘ll add that it makes the same noise wether the headphones are plugged in or not



Yes. Is there music going into the amp and is the volume turned up when u turn it on?


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

runeight said:


> Yes. Is there music going into the amp and is the volume turned up when u turn it on?


Normally no music playing. Usually I don’t start playing the music until after warm up and I leave the volume around 11 o’clock. I adjust the volume via my DAC. I tried turning on the LP with music playing and volume turned down with the same result. I tried turning it on with no music playing and volume turned down and same. No music and volume at 11 and same thing.


----------



## funch

Mine arrived today. I'm using the stock EH tubes, Yggy A1 balanced out source, into HD800's balanced. No volume pot issues, imbalance or otherwise. Very dynamic. Can't wait to hear how it does over time.

I've ordered parts from Mouser to build a balanced volume attenuator to futz around with as well.


----------



## LCMusicLover

funch said:


> Mine arrived today. I'm using the stock EH tubes, Yggy A1 balanced out source, into HD800's balanced. No volume pot issues, imbalance or otherwise. Very dynamic. Can't wait to hear how it does over time.
> 
> I've ordered parts from Mouser to build a balanced volume attenuator to futz around with as well.


Glad to hear you're not having trouble with imbalance.  I suspect that your HD800s move your volume out of the danger zone at the bottom of the pot.  I can just barely catch a little imbalance with my Ether 2 and other less sensitive (than Utopia) cans.  Right at the edge of 'too quiet to make out' I have a little imbalance, but it's well below the range I would listen at, even at night.  Only have trouble when driving Utopia, which are much lower impedance, and significantly more sensitive than any of my other cans.


----------



## skyline315

Slight channel imbalance on the 650s, but as @LCMusicLover says with his Ether 2, it's at such a low volume that it doesn't pose any problems.

I'm also not struggling with the high gain.  Sure, I'd prefer it a tad lower, but I'm at pretty much the same spot on the dial as I was with the Vali 2 on high gain (also 5x).

I went into this assuming I'd need attenuation of some sort, but it's feeling like a luxury more than a necessity at this point.


----------



## runeight

4LoveOfSound said:


> Normally no music playing. Usually I don’t start playing the music until after warm up and I leave the volume around 11 o’clock. I adjust the volume via my DAC. I tried turning on the LP with music playing and volume turned down with the same result. I tried turning it on with no music playing and volume turned down and same. No music and volume at 11 and same thing.





4LoveOfSound said:


> Normally no music playing. Usually I don’t start playing the music until after warm up and I leave the volume around 11 o’clock. I adjust the volume via my DAC. I tried turning on the LP with music playing and volume turned down with the same result. I tried turning it on with no music playing and volume turned down and same. No music and volume at 11 and same thing.



This sounds like a little relay chatter as the output relay closes. I don't think it will be a problem and probably some of the other LPs have a little bit of it too. Since MP has a 5yr warranty MHO is that you can ignore it unless it gets worse. But, keep in mind that I don't speak for MP in any way.


----------



## kumar402

LCMusicLover said:


> Glad to hear you're not having trouble with imbalance.  I suspect that your HD800s move your volume out of the danger zone at the bottom of the pot.  I can just barely catch a little imbalance with my Ether 2 and other less sensitive (than Utopia) cans.  Right at the edge of 'too quiet to make out' I have a little imbalance, but it's well below the range I would listen at, even at night.  Only have trouble when driving Utopia, which are much lower impedance, and significantly more sensitive than any of my other cans.


I do get imbalance at very low volume with my 800s but then again at very low volume. I reduced the volume from my mojo to give me more room at amp level and once I move beyond 7 o clock the imbalance disappears


----------



## skyline315

For the record, the volume pot on the Liquid Spark I heard this past weekend behaves the same way.  Seems like a non-issue.


----------



## runeight

hemtmaker said:


> @runeight, so having channel imbalance at low volume is normal? Mine does the same thing but as soon as the volume pot goes above 8 o’clock or so, it disappears



Since pots (not fixed resistor attenuators) that we normally can afford to use have some small imbalance at liftoff, channel imbalance is always there in every amp. It's a question of whether or not you can hear it and how long it lasts during rotation.

The higher the output of the source, the higher the gain of the amp, and the more sensitive the headphones the more likely you are to hear some channel imbalance.

Reducing the output level of the source, reducing the gain of the amp, or reducing the sensitivity of the headphones will reduce the likelihood of audible imbalance.

The pots used in LP have a fairly standard section matching (it is a quad pot), the same section matching IIRC as equivalent alps pots. But, part of a requirement imposed by me is that not only would they be electrically tested, they would also be "listening" tested. They are placed in a fixture and an operator literally listens to the liftoff balance. This last test is, obviously, somewhat subjective but it does cull out ones that are clearly off at low rotation. IIRC from CTH production, there were not many that failed.

So I am somewhat surprised that there is this issue on any LP. And why I have enquired of the manuf for some data. But, again, I am the original designer and not MP.

Or it could be that you guys are real pains in the ass and are just blowing up the pots. I think the jury is out on this...............


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

runeight said:


> This sounds like a little relay chatter as the output relay closes. I don't think it will be a problem and probably some of the other LPs have a little bit of it too. Since MP has a 5yr warranty MHO is that you can ignore it unless it gets worse. But, keep in mind that I don't speak for MP in any way.


Now that you mention it, it does sound like relays opening and closing.  Ok, I'll keep enjoying the sound from the LP and not worry about it unless it gets worse. I really appreciate your input Mr. Cavalli.  Thank you.


----------



## LCMusicLover

runeight said:


> Since pots (not fixed resistor attenuators) that we normally can afford to use have some small imbalance at liftoff, channel imbalance is always there in every amp. It's a question of whether or not you can hear it and how long it lasts during rotation.
> 
> The higher the output of the source, the higher the gain of the amp, and the more sensitive the headphones the more likely you are to hear some channel imbalance.
> 
> ...


Well, I have a high output source, and very sensitive headphones, so I guess that I am officially a pain in the ass


----------



## Rattle

I'm usually at 9 or above and I've never detected a channel balance issue on spark or Platinum thankfully.


----------



## LCMusicLover

It's clearly going to take me a while to sort through all my tube/can combinations.  

I can say that Siemens NOS E88CC are great. May well be my 'one tube to rule them all'.  I really like the Gold Lions with Utopia/Auteur.  Amperex PQs pair quite well with E2.  Now, I've got the Siemens in, and, rotating through all my cans, just great with every one.  

Even make me really appreciate my HD-6xx, which I had always been sort of 'meh' about.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Hansotek said:


> Plugged in the Reflektors first. One channel was amazing, the other was garbage. Then tried the stock EH tubes. Clearly no where near as good, but both tubes were actually working. Verite was sounding great with both    tubes though. Don’t have any Golden Lions currently, but I’m familiar with them, they’re pretty solid, IMO. I think Alex actually used them as the stock tube in the Crimson.
> 
> I have an obscene amount of tubes. I’m more into the Reflektors or the 60’s era Philips tubes manufactured in Harleen, Holland for 6922 types, personally. But, you know, tubes are like ice cream, everybody has their favorite flavor.



@Hansotek I hope I got the right ones, but these sound pretty good ....


----------



## Hansotek

UsoppNoKami said:


> @Hansotek I hope I got the right ones, but these sound pretty good ....



Yep. From what I can tell in the photo, they appear to be the genuine article. I can see the trademark silver shields and single wire getter post. Give em like 100 hours or so and they are really going to sing. From what I could tell, they had a lot more dynamic texture on the micro and macro scale vs. the EH tubes and the tone/timbre is much more realistic and emotionally engaging.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Hansotek said:


> Yep. From what I can tell in the photo, they appear to be the genuine article. I can see the trademark silver shields and single wire getter post. Give em like 100 hours or so and they are really going to sing. From what I could tell, they had a lot more dynamic texture on the micro and macro scale vs. the EH tubes and the tone/timbre is much more realistic and emotionally engaging.



Thanks for the input and recommendation again. 

I'm comparing them to NOS Philips SQ that were made by Mullard. Fresh out of the box, the sound is more holographic and has a nice dynamic tonality. Going to enjoy the burn in


----------



## funch (Feb 7, 2019)

I rolled in a pair of JAN Phillips 6922's that I've had in my stash for a few years. They have green
lettering, like many on Ebay. They have more body to them compared to the EH that sound too 
thin imho, but still plenty of detail. Worth a listen.


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

Don't know if this was answered already.

Before comitting I saw the shipping cost was over $100 (via DHL). Is this only shipping or shipping + tax?


----------



## skyline315

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> Don't know if this was answered already.
> 
> Before comitting I saw the shipping cost was over $100 (via DHL). Is this only shipping or shipping + tax?


Is Amazon an option for you? I got mine through there...no shipping or tax.


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y (Jan 10, 2019)

True for Amazon.com (US). Think it comes from CA.

I'm here in Italy however. Monoprice brand is listed in many Amazon EU sites, sadly none w/ Liquid Platinum/Spark.

Might take the Ebay route, instead of their main site.


----------



## skyline315 (Jan 15, 2019)

*Introducion*
I've had the LP for a few days now. I can't describe the sound of the amp any better than some of our senior members already have, so I won't try.  My goal here is simply to add another data point for those that may still be on the fence.

I was on the fence myself.  I don't trust Monoprice since this is their first foray into serious headamps.  I was expecting multiple reports of shoddy build quality or exploding amps and it kept me from pulling the trigger at first.  A huge thanks to the few senior members that took the time to talk with me and push me over the edge.

One caveat to my impressions is that moving up from the Lyr 3 meant that my Gumby was also going from SE use to balanced use.  That means that any improvements I hear may be a mix of the amp itself and also utilizing the Gumby more appropriately.  There's no way for me to reliably distinguish between the two.

All listening is Gumby A2 (USB V)-->LP (stock EH tubes)-->HD650 (stock).

*Packaging*
Yes, the packaging from Monoprice sucks.  A huge box with two pitiful packing bubbles, which means the amp is bouncing around all over the place during shipping.  On the plus side, I was quite impressed with the amp box itself.  It feels appropriate for a $700 (or $770 now, I suppose) amp.  There's a nice bag for the amp itself, and everything is well packed inside custom-cut foam.  I know, who cares, right?  It's all about the sound.  I only mention this, because value is the big question here. $700 is a lot for someone like myself and I want to feel like the money was well spent.  Monoprice has done well here...it feels like a luxury product.

*Build Quality*
I thought this was a hideous amp when the prototype pics were released.  In person, though, it's quite nice.  Everything feels solid, and the case is well-aligned.  The dark gray on the front plate blends into the black body nicely, and makes the whole thing look very sleek.  I have no idea why the left and right balanced inputs are switched on the amp.  I originally plugged them in incorrectly and was shocked when I heard the channels switched.  But, hey...I always tell my students to take the time to read before answering a question and yet I was apparently incapable of reading the L & R printed above the sockets.  So, that's on me.  The construction is all metal, there's a good weight to it, and again...it feels like a $700 amp should.  This does not feel like a cheap toy.

*Tubes*
Yeah, they were hard to insert.  Oh well.  The right tube took some force, but went in without too much difficulty. The left tube felt like I was pressing against a brick wall.  I finally realized the tube pins were just a tad crooked, and things went more smoothly after straightening them out a bit.  I've got some NOS tubes coming in this afternoon, so we'll see if it gets any easier after repeated tube rolls.

**Update - 1/15**
Tube rolling is definitely easier at this point. They still take some work to remove, but putting tubes in is painless at this point. 

I can also confirm what others have said that tube rolling makes a significant difference. I'm currently running a pair of 1972 Amperex A-frames (Holland made), and the sound has become significantly warmer and sweeter. If you find the stock configuration to sound a little dry, then tube rolling can alleviate this. I initially thought this was coming at the expense of staging, but after about 20 hours the sound has opened up and I won't be going back.
*****************

*Sound*
This is a step up from the Lyr in nearly every way.  This isn't a criticism of the Lyr, which I enjoyed quite a bit.

The LP isn't aggressive, but the improvement in dynamics from the Lyr are obvious.  The stage is also improved, especially in width.  Instruments have their own spot in the mix, and the sound is very immersive.  Once again, I don't think the soundstage of the Lyr is bad.  In fact, I think it's pretty decent relative to some other Schiit offerings.  The LP is simply better.

Everything sounds very natural and easy, without crossing over into the realm of boring.  Clean sound, but not clinical.

The sound, in one word?

Convincing.

Enough said.

*Misc.
GAIN *- This appears to be the big issue people have with this amp, but it's a non-issue for me personally.  5x isn't extreme.  I'm typically somewhere between 9-11 on the dial and it's smooth and accurate enough that I don't have any problem getting the volume exactly where I want it.  This about the same experience I had with the Vali 2 and Lyr 3 on high gain. Of course, YMMV.  I'm only using the HD650, so more sensitive headphones will struggle. Attenuation seems simple enough and is worth the effort for what you're gaining with the LP in sound quality.
*HEAT* - Yep, it runs hot. So what?

*Conclusion*
This amp seems like a bargain to me.  I've owned a ton of amps in the $500 and under category and I questioned whether this would be a clear step up.

It is.

Yes, reliability is a question that remains to be answered, but with a 5-year warranty it doesn't feel like much of a risk.

*Final Conclusion*

Upgraditis Status: Cured.


----------



## Zachik

skyline315 said:


> Upgraditis Status: Cured.


Very nice write-up.
My only comment is: who are you kidding (re: upgraditis cured)?!


----------



## terminatetrails

Thanks for the review Skyline.  My guess/experience on the LP is that it really shines most on higher ohm hp's.  HD 650's are 300 ohms.  I've been delighted with the pairing of the LP and T1's at 600 ohms.  Notably the volume of the LP must go up which means no channel imbalance that I can perceive at lower volumes (such as is noticeable on my Utopias) and an incredible enveloping soundstage (speaking again about the T1 on the LP).  It is not that the Utopia on the LP is bad (it is fantastic), I just notice a much more addictive pairing with my T1's.


----------



## phthora

How does the LP pair up with your AFO, @skyline315 ?


----------



## Wes S

skyline315 said:


> *Introducion*
> I've had the LP for a few days now. I can't describe the sound of the amp any better than some of our senior members already have, so I won't try.  My goal here is simply to add another data point for those that may still be on the fence.
> 
> I was on the fence myself.  I don't trust Monoprice since this is their first foray into serious headamps.  I was expecting multiple reports of shoddy build quality or exploding amps and it kept me from pulling the trigger at first.  A huge thanks to the few senior members that took the time to talk with me and push me over the edge.
> ...


Great right up!  Would you say the Lyr 3 is a warmer amp, than the LP?


----------



## skyline315

phthora said:


> How does the LP pair up with your AFO, @skyline315 ?


Sold the AFO a while ago to fund the Gumby.  

I wanted to try and max out the 650 to see what the fuss was all about.


----------



## skyline315

Wes S said:


> Great right up!  Would you say the Lyr 3 is a warmer amp, than the LP?


Not necessarily.  Both can be altered enough by tube choice that I'd call it a wash.


----------



## toobuzz

phthora said:


> How does the LP pair up with your AFO, @skyline315 ?



I can confirm that the AFO/LP pairing is delightful!


----------



## Wes S (Jan 11, 2019)

skyline315 said:


> Not necessarily.  Both can be altered enough by tube choice that I'd call it a wash.


Cool.  Thanks!  Time to save up some cash. . .


----------



## Odin412

toobuzz said:


> I can confirm that the AFO/LP pairing is delightful!



Agreed. This is a very good combo.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

terminatetrails said:


> Thanks for the review Skyline.  My guess/experience on the LP is that it really shines most on higher ohm hp's.  HD 650's are 300 ohms.  I've been delighted with the pairing of the LP and T1's at 600 ohms.  Notably the volume of the LP must go up which means no channel imbalance that I can perceive at lower volumes (such as is noticeable on my Utopias) and an incredible enveloping soundstage (speaking again about the T1 on the LP).  It is not that the Utopia on the LP is bad (it is fantastic), I just notice a much more addictive pairing with my T1's.



Put in a preamp so that you can make better use of volume pot. 

Someone linked this before, passive preamp:
http://www.goldpt.com/sa2x.html

Personally I use a Schiit Freya in passive mode.


----------



## kumar402

UsoppNoKami said:


> Put in a preamp so that you can make better use of volume pot.
> 
> Someone linked this before, passive preamp:
> http://www.goldpt.com/sa2x.html
> ...


What about Schiit Sys


----------



## Rattle

I've had a saga in and out of the loop before the platinum. If SE only it's hard to beat. I don't have a balanced DAC either so. Sounds great in passive mode and gave me plenty of pot movement up and over 12.


----------



## john57 (Jan 12, 2019)

Someone was asking about what my new DAC driving the Liquid Platinum is the SMSL SU-8 with FW 1.3 and HW 1.2

First the cons:

It is so small as compared to my Audio GD, California Audio Lab, Burson Audio and the OPPO HA-1 I used to have. The SMSL SU-8 has a teeny weeny display in which I would need a pair of binoculars to read it across the room. The manual is even worst and I need a magnifier to read it and the graphs. You can not lose the remote because there is a special unlock key, the C key to electronically unlock the DAC for any adjustments. For some reason the Max volume is 38 which is a a bit odd number to use. It does not play any MQA files in which not a big issue for me. There was a problem with early units in that the XLR outputs were distorting a bit at max volume which was fixed with HW 1.2 by increasing the supply voltage to the buffers from 5v to 9v. It only comes in silver currently. There is three feet instead of four.

Second the pros:

As it turns out the SMSL SU-8 is one of the clearest and transparent sounding DAC I ever heard. I was not excepting that much of a change. I was quite surprised. I find that the remote turn out to be useful rather than a gimmick. I was watching a TV show on Netflix called Pine Gap in which two actors, a women and a man auguring on who is going to keep the cat. By using the remote I can change the seven digital filters on the ESS chip in real time and plainly hear the characters of the actor voices change. Some of the filters will change the makes voice more and some others will change the female voice more. It was kind of surprising that two actors talking on a TV series will show the differences of the ESS 2ES9038Q2M digital filters on the SMSL SU-8. All my other four active Dac’s are using the ES9018 chip and this SMSL SU-8 is at end game level as far DAC’s is concerned. I can hear the differences even with my Sceptre S6 monitors. I brought mine at Amazon at $250 just because I wanted the HW level to be at 1.2 otherwise it would be easier to send it back. I use the balanced outs of the SMSL SU-8 to drive the Liquid Platinum amp just fine. By the way there is also 10 sound color options like three tubes and the 3 crystal options which would help a bit when actors are speaking in muddle English. There are rich setting also. Someone was telling me that the color options is really in the ES9038Q2M chip in which I can not confirm.


----------



## Odin412

kumar402 said:


> What about Schiit Sys



That's what I use - works great!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

A new review...


https://apple.news/Avg24XI22QMOMsW0NhFTUxA


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## kumar402

Odin412 said:


> That's what I use - works great!


I was looking into it but heard reports that there is channel imbalance below 12 and hence makin it unusable below 12.
Did you face this issue.


----------



## Odin412

kumar402 said:


> I was looking into it but heard reports that there is channel imbalance below 12 and hence makin it unusable below 12.
> Did you face this issue.



No, I can't detect any channel imbalance in my unit - it's pretty much perfect for what I use it for. And the price is hard to beat. Schiit has pretty good customer service so if you run into issues I would contact them for repair.


----------



## llcook51

skyline315 said:


> *Introducion*
> I've had the LP for a few days now. I can't describe the sound of the amp any better than some of our senior members already have, so I won't try.  My goal here is simply to add another data point for those that may still be on the fence.
> 
> I was on the fence myself.  I don't trust Monoprice since this is their first foray into serious headamps.  I was expecting multiple reports of shoddy build quality or exploding amps and it kept me from pulling the trigger at first.  A huge thanks to the few senior members that took the time to talk with me and push me over the edge.
> ...


Agree across the board. I have had mine for a couple months now. Absolutely wonderful with all of my HPs: HD 800S; HEK v.2; Ether 2; and LCD 4. It brings out the best in all of them.


----------



## john57

Wildcatsare1 said:


> A new review...
> 
> 
> https://apple.news/Avg24XI22QMOMsW0NhFTUxA


One of the things that I agree with the reviewer that the difference of sound quality between the single ended input and the balanced input is very small, smaller than the difference with the digital filters on my DAC.

Right now I am listening with the Liquid Platinum on my new Massdrop x Focal Elex that I received yesterday with the balanced cable. This is the first time I heard metal dome driver sounded so velvety smooth with no edgy harshness and no signs of any metallic tone to the sound. I used to hate metal dome tweeters especially in a car. The level of detail I heard with the Focal and Liquid Platinum is on another level and not even my Stax headphone can reach. I am still in awe that I spend $250 on a new DAC that makes the Liquid Platinum shine.

The performance of the Focal headphone is making me to rethink about replacing my Sceptre S6 monitors with something like the Focal Shape 65.


----------



## funch

Just put this together yesterday to give me more range on my volume pot.


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## abvolt

How does this work if you don't mind saying..


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## funch

It's a balanced attenuator; a passive volume control if you will. It's inserted in the signal path between a source (DAC), and an amp. So: DAC-->attenuator box-->amp. It is used to reduce the strength of the 
signal from the DAC so the user can turn up the volume pot on the amp farther.


----------



## Astral Abyss

funch said:


> Just put this together yesterday to give me more range on my volume pot.



Love it!  Nice and clean looking!

I do something similar using a Schiit SYS for my SE connection, but haven't seen anything nice like this for the balanced side.  You should make a few more and bring them to the March meet-up. (hint hint)


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## Odin412

skyline315 said:


> *Introducion*
> I've had the LP for a few days now. I can't describe the sound of the amp any better than some of our senior members already have, so I won't try.  My goal here is simply to add another data point for those that may still be on the fence.
> 
> I was on the fence myself.  I don't trust Monoprice since this is their first foray into serious headamps.  I was expecting multiple reports of shoddy build quality or exploding amps and it kept me from pulling the trigger at first.  A huge thanks to the few senior members that took the time to talk with me and push me over the edge.
> ...



Great review! I plugged in my HD 650 to the Liquid Platinum over the weekend and I was very pleased with the result - it's a great combo. I'm still amazed at how well the HD 650 responds to a good amp while being tolerant of lesser gear as well. It's truly one of the all-time great headphones.


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## MikeW (Jan 14, 2019)

Really undecided on this amp, I'd had my mind all made up to try the Schiit Lyr 3. I already own the Bifrost Multibit Gen 5 and Jotunheim. I've had the Lyr 3 in my Schiit cart for a week, if I go that route I think i'll just get the stock Russian tube and immediately buy a 60$ Psvane that everyone rave's about. Here's my thoughts on these two amps (i own neither) :

LP : Pro's
Sound quality and value, seems to be a definitive step up from Lyr 3.
Balanced

Con's :
Build Quality on volume control and questionable switching power supply. (issues reported)
Price, 55% more expensive then Lyr 3
No Gain switch
No Pre-Amp
Heat

LYR3 Pro's
Excellent Chasis and build quality
Pre Amp
Gain Switch
Only one tube to roll
American Made
No power brick
Stack's with Bifrost

Con's
Not at the same performance level as LP
Not balanced
Schiit "house" sound**

Some of these pro's and con's are specific to me and my use case. Like I said I already own Bifrost, and really like the way the two products stack together. I also use the pre-amp function for powered monitors, and I also sometimes use the Gain function, as I have both high ohm and low ohm phones in my collection. Part of the reason this "problem" exist is the lack of updates to Mjolnir 2, as it does not appear the schiit currently has any amp at any price that is competitive with LP.  Hopefully they can solve this hole in the product line later this year. My current headphones are Stock HD 650 and Modified Dennon D2000, they are both balanced, but I have SE adapters. My biggest hang up with just getting the LYR3 and being done is im not totally satisfied with my Jotunheim. I've owned it for a couple of years, overall im pleased with it, but what bothers me is it's staging and inability to sometimes keep up with high energy music. It sounds compressed, and sometimes congested, and overly forward. I do find these traits a bit bothersome. My concern is that this may be part of the schiit "house" sound. I've not heard enough of their line to know, as i've only owned the Jotunheim.

My last amp was an O2, about 2 years ago, I recall Jotunheim being much better, but I don't remember O2 having these traits that bother me on Jot. It's been to long, and I can't say anymore. Part of the problem with selling all your stuff as you upgrade..

Alas my dilema, LYR3's so pretty and has all the features im looking for, and stacks with my Bifrost. If I get LP i'd definitely also have to get a switch and pre-amp, (like SYS) yet another piece of hardware sitting around, also adding to the cost. Schiit's really clever putting pre-amp's on their entire line, even the magni. It matters.

Ironically, for those that are not using balanced input for their LP, the schiit SYS would be a great high quality cheap volume attenuator, similar to the DIY option above. Though, only works for unbalanced dac input.


----------



## john57

I wanted to say that LYR3 does get quite hot as per reviews . The LP runs cooler than my original LYR.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

The Lyr 3 and LP run about the same temperature, I do strongly preferring the LP. They are both great amps, but the LP has superior tonal reproduction, headstage, and bass. If you have darker headphones, perhaps the Lyr 3, but I’m very happy with the LP and the Abyss, ZMF Autuer and Focal Clear.


----------



## kumar402

MikeW said:


> Really undecided on this amp, I'd had my mind all made up to try the Schiit Lyr 3. I already own the Bifrost Multibit Gen 5 and Jotunheim. I've had the Lyr 3 in my Schiit cart for a week, if I go that route I think i'll just get the stock Russian tube and immediately buy a 60$ Psvane that everyone rave's about. Here's my thoughts on these two amps (i own neither) :
> 
> LP : Pro's
> Sound quality and value, seems to be a definitive step up from Lyr 3.
> ...


On volume control issue, in practical scenario the imbalance is at very low volume level and I faced this issue when I was using line out of Mojo which churns out 3v. Once I’m down to more sane level of 2v level, it is non issue for me. It may be there but at very very low volume.


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## kumar402

MikeW said:


> Really undecided on this amp, I'd had my mind all made up to try the Schiit Lyr 3. I already own the Bifrost Multibit Gen 5 and Jotunheim. I've had the Lyr 3 in my Schiit cart for a week, if I go that route I think i'll just get the stock Russian tube and immediately buy a 60$ Psvane that everyone rave's about. Here's my thoughts on these two amps (i own neither) :
> 
> LP : Pro's
> Sound quality and value, seems to be a definitive step up from Lyr 3.
> ...


I haven’t used Lyr3 but I have Valhalla2, although I loved the build quality of V2 but it has a dry treble and higher energy in it and since I own HD800s and 600, I really struggled with it. Did some tube rolling to tame it although it worked but never went away.
LP is more neutral, I guess it doesn’t color anything. I haven’t changed tube in LP so far. Also I felt better headspace and imaging out of LP  but I haven’t done A/B testing with Valhalla to directly compare.
Yes I do wish it had gain switch and hence I also ended up ordering Sys. I hope Sys doesn’t color anything as it is passive preamp.


----------



## MikeW (Jan 14, 2019)

kumar402 said:


> I haven’t used Lyr3 but I have Valhalla2, although I loved the build quality of V2 but it has a dry treble and higher energy in it and since I own HD800s and 600, I really struggled with it. Did some tube rolling to tame it although it worked but never went away.
> LP is more neutral, I guess it doesn’t color anything. I haven’t changed tube in LP so far. Also I felt better headspace and imaging out of LP  but I haven’t done A/B testing with Valhalla to directly compare.
> Yes I do wish it had gain switch and hence I also ended up ordering Sys. I hope Sys doesn’t color anything as it is passive preamp.



I'd have to get the SYS just for my powered monitors, but I had not considered the fact that it would also solve the gain issue. Bifrost > SYS > LP and Powered monitor
                                                                                                                                                                  This would allow attenuation for both the powered monitor's and also the LP. Sys is well reviewed, and supposed to be pretty transparent, the attenuation is passive, just use good quality short interconnects. 

I knew schiit made large improvements to heat output in LYR3 vs LYR and LYR2, but I did not realize the LP was as close as everyone's saying.

Thanks for the impressions of Valhalla, but that product is completely different, it's a full tube amp and vastly cheaper.


----------



## kumar402

MikeW said:


> I'd have to get the SYS just for my powered monitors, but I had not considered the fact that it would also solve the gain issue. Bifrost > SYS > LP and Powered monitor
> This would allow attenuation for both the powered monitor's and also the LP. Sys is well reviewed, and supposed to be pretty transparent, the attenuation is passive, just use good quality short interconnects.
> 
> I knew schiit made large improvements to heat output in LYR3 vs LYR and LYR2, but I did not realize the LP was as close as everyone's saying.
> ...


I have few 4 ft Amazon basics RCA cables with me, I will use those. I hope 4 ft is fine. In Schiit website they said anything below 15ft should be ok but shorter the better.


----------



## displayname




----------



## Thenewbie76

How does the liquid platinum sound in comparison with other tube amplifier. I heard that because it's a hybrid it does not have much of that 'tube sound. I plan on buying this as my 1st tube amplifier and to pair it up with the hd 600, ZMF aeolus and the Hifiman X v2 .Because since it's a hybrid and does not offer that tube sound I may look into the dark voice or one of the woo audio tube amp like the WA3.


----------



## skyline315

Thenewbie76 said:


> How does the liquid platinum sound in comparison with other tube amplifier. I heard that because it's a hybrid it does not have much of that 'tube sound. I plan on buying this as my 1st tube amplifier and to pair it up with the hd 600, ZMF aeolus and the Hifiman X v2 .Because since it's a hybrid and does not offer that tube sound I may look into the dark voice or one of the woo audio tube amp like the WA3.


It has plenty of tube wetness if you roll the right tubes.  It's also versatile, as it can efficiently drive dynamics and planars alike.

No, it's not syrupy like some tube amps of yore...it has a little more oomph and clarity.  But, these are good things.

There is nothing sterile or clinical about this amp and it has plenty of warmth with the appropriate tubes.


----------



## Thenewbie76

@skyline315 that's good to hear that it still offers that tube sound . But may I just ask how do the stock tubes sound like ? What tubes would you recommend that would make it better ?


----------



## skyline315

Thenewbie76 said:


> @skyline315 that's good to hear that it still offers that tube sound . But may I just ask how do the stock tubes sound like ? What tubes would you recommend that would make it better ?


It's all about preference.

The stock tubes are pretty well balanced, but tend a little towards the dry/clean side of the spectrum. They aren't bad, by any means, and I could have been happy sticking with them.

But, I was after a warmer/smoother sound, and Brent Jessee at audiotubes.com hooked me up with a pair of 1972 Amperex A-frames made in Holland @ $85 for the pair.  I'm very happy with the result.


----------



## Thenewbie76

@skyline315 thx  for the info. Now I am really looking forward towards the amp. Powers up headphones with a lot of power(check), versatile with switchable tubes that apparently works for planar too (check) and apparently a 'Alex cavali' sound signature which will be the 1st I experience


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## betula

Does this amp work on 230V in Europe? Also, if I buy a different power supply what specs should I watch out for? Many thanks!


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

The SMPS that came with it is universal. Just replace the plug.


----------



## MikeW

can someone clarify how the RCA jacks on the back of the Platinum work? I see 2 sets plus balanced, im assuming SE input and balanced input, what is the 2nd rca set for? is it "pass though", with or without attenuation? The details on the monoprice website are horrible, no explanation at all.


----------



## runeight

MikeW said:


> can someone clarify how the RCA jacks on the back of the Platinum work? I see 2 sets plus balanced, im assuming SE input and balanced input, what is the 2nd rca set for? is it "pass though", with or without attenuation? The details on the monoprice website are horrible, no explanation at all.



It is a simple pass through. The RCA inputs are hard-wired together.


----------



## MikeW

well at least that's somewhat useful. could run that to a SYS and then to powered monitors and still have another available switch on the SYS for something else. Guess you could just go straight from the bypass to speakers if you wanted to use software attenuation or had a dac with it's own volume control


----------



## runeight

Hey gents, I have a thought for all of you and would like to have some feedback from those who have very hot sources and need attenuation.

I know that some of you are using some kind of passive attenuation. In general, pure passive attenuation can affect the SQ because of the resistance introduced into the input stream turning the source from low impedance output to high(er) impedance output.

There is another way though. It would be a simple matter to create an active attenuator using high quality audio opamps. Attenuation would be done with a simple voltage divider before the opamp inputs. The easiest way to power such a thing would be two 9V batteries.

The advantage of this is that the source would still see a high impedance load, but the amp would see a low impedance source at the outputs of the opamps.

Batteries would ensure no significant noise introduction at the input to the amp beyond the inherent component noise.

I don't think the opamps (chosen properly) would have any audible effect on the SQ because the opamps would be operating in a very lightly loaded situation which would not incur significant THD, etc.

So just an interest check. Anyone interested in this? And if so...

1. Is my proposed method of powering ok?
2. What gain reduction would you want? Cut it by 1/2 (6db). Less? More?

I don't think something like this is needed for most situations, but there do seem to be some where it might be helpful.


----------



## Hansotek

MikeW said:


> well at least that's somewhat useful. could run that to a SYS and then to powered monitors and still have another available switch on the SYS for something else. Guess you could just go straight from the bypass to speakers if you wanted to use software attenuation or had a dac with it's own volume control



In my experience, the Sys seriously degrades sound quality.


----------



## Hansotek

runeight said:


> Hey gents, I have a thought for all of you and would like to have some feedback from those who have very hot sources and need attenuation.
> 
> I know that some of you are using some kind of passive attenuation. In general, pure passive attenuation can affect the SQ because of the resistance introduced into the input stream turning the source from low impedance output to high(er) impedance output.
> 
> ...



Perhaps a switch for -6db and -12db. IMO, anything under 6db will be useless. -12db might add some versatility for extra sensitive headphones like the Cascade or Fostex TH models, which both match SUPER synergistically with the LP.


----------



## Rattle

runeight said:


> Hey gents, I have a thought for all of you and would like to have some feedback from those who have very hot sources and need attenuation.
> 
> I know that some of you are using some kind of passive attenuation. In general, pure passive attenuation can affect the SQ because of the resistance introduced into the input stream turning the source from low impedance output to high(er) impedance output.
> 
> ...



I thought the spark had perfect gain 3db/6db however I only plugged 300ohm senns into it.
LCD-2C might require 4.5/9 ... If things are more senstitive than that we shouldn't be plugging them into an amp like the LP ... You can't make everyone happy I guess.


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## kumar402

Hansotek said:


> In my experience, the Sys seriously degrades sound quality.


Oh no I just got one delivered today. Yet to set it up


----------



## Hansotek

kumar402 said:


> Oh no I just got one delivered today. Yet to set it up



Your findings might not align with my own. Good luck.


----------



## Hansotek

Rattle said:


> I thought the spark had perfect gain 3db/6db however I only plugged 300ohm senns into it.
> LCD-2C might require 4.5/9 ... If things are more senstitive than that we shouldn't be plugging them into an amp like the LP ... You can't make everyone happy I guess.



While I agree with your point that the Spark has a perfect volume curve, I disagree with your point on the LP. The LP’s background is quiet enough to allow an extremely wide range of gear. This notion you are floating is totally false. Sensitive gear can benefit greatly from enormous power reserves, just try any of the Fostex/Emu dynamics.


----------



## funch (Jan 16, 2019)

I just tried turning the amps volume all the way up, and using the volume on the attenuator box I built (post #1221), and notice a big improvement. Extended highs, bigger soundstage, more open sound.
It really has shown me the limitations of the stock, smaller pot. The pot I used in my box is a 50K Alps.
This one to be exact: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-ALPS-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2648


----------



## Rattle

Hansotek said:


> While I agree with your point that the Spark has a perfect volume curve, I disagree with your point on the LP. The LP’s background is quiet enough to allow an extremely wide range of gear. This notion you are floating is totally false. Sensitive gear can benefit greatly from enormous power reserves, just try any of the Fostex/Emu dynamics.



I get where you're coming from, like I said I don't have any experience with gear that sensitive. The LP is the highest end amp I've owned. I was just thinking out loud trying to make the point where noise comes into play and also volume pot issues with higher sensitivity gear. That's good to know that the LP is that clean that it isn't a concern.


----------



## MikeW (Jan 17, 2019)

Hansotek said:


> In my experience, the Sys seriously degrades sound quality.



interesting, that's the first i've heard of it. Wonder what a better alternative is. Windows mixer software attenuation is no bueno either. Active pre-amps are expensive. Maybe the JDS labs switch/pre

Edit: hard to find any negative comments on sys, even amir likes it, and he does not like any schiit products lol. Given the way the device works however, it may be more or less harmful depending on what it's connected to, and how sensitive that device is to impedance.


----------



## betula

Can someone please post a pic of the power supply? I have ordered the LP from the US and while I am waiting for its arrival I'd like to sort out my power cable. 
Can I buy something like this, or the only way is a plug adapter? I can't find description or close up pic of the LP's ps online.


----------



## rockytopwiz

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/253180664213

I'd say itll prolly add coloration, but 35 skins and balanced.


----------



## Thenewbie76

Since this is a tube amp it's not recommended I use it with IEMs and planar right? Only dynamic headphones. I have the hd 600 and ZMF aeolus which I plan to use. Would it be a good match up ?


----------



## skyline315

Thenewbie76 said:


> Since this is a tube amp it's not recommended I use it with IEMs and planar right? Only dynamic headphones. I have the hd 600 and ZMF aeolus which I plan to use. Would it be a good match up ?


No.  Tube Hybrids like the LP are great for planars.  

This is different from a full tube design.


----------



## Thenewbie76

@skyline315 oh ok .But if it's a hybrid would it still have that 'tube signature ? Is there any benefits between a full tube design and a hybrid ? Can I use a hybrid for IEMs?


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## Schwibbles (Jan 17, 2019)

Thenewbie76 said:


> Since this is a tube amp it's not recommended I use it with IEMs and planar right? Only dynamic headphones. I have the hd 600 and ZMF aeolus which I plan to use. Would it be a good match up ?


It sounds like you're thinking of an OTL tube amp in which you're right.

In the case of the LP, it is a hybrid amp meaning that it uses solid state amplification in conjunction with a tube. Generally, the tube in a hybrid amp is there for some sound coloration while most of the grunt work is handled by the solid state section. The LP is fantastic with planars and IEMs (granted you use a preamp to lower the volume); it can drive pretty much anything.

EDIT: I can confirm the HD600 pairs very nicely with the LP.


----------



## Thenewbie76

Schwibbles said:


> It sounds like you're thinking of an OTL tube amp in which you're right.
> 
> In the case of the LP, it is a hybrid amp meaning that it uses solid state amplification in conjunction with a tube. Generally, the tube in a hybrid amp is there for some sound coloration while most of the grunt work is handled by the solid state section. The LP is fantastic with planars and IEMs (granted you use a preamp to lower the volume); it can drive pretty much anything.
> 
> EDIT: I can confirm the HD600 pairs very nicely with the LP.


I have no idea what OTL means but it sounds like a hybrid is better.  Since it still offers that tube coloration to the sound. Any ideas why people won't go for hybrids and why OTL tube amps are still being made?


----------



## rockytopwiz

Thenewbie76 said:


> I have no idea what OTL means but it sounds like a hybrid is better.  Since it still offers that tube coloration to the sound. Any ideas why people won't go for hybrids and why OTL tube amps are still being made?


If you have heard a decent SS before, you will "get it" as soon as you hear a hybrid.  It's a SS with just a touch of magic.  Where the output transformerless is all magic, smoothed over sound with less Dynamics and punch but with an overall warmer tone.


----------



## Schwibbles

Thenewbie76 said:


> I have no idea what OTL means but it sounds like a hybrid is better.  Since it still offers that tube coloration to the sound. Any ideas why people won't go for hybrids and why OTL tube amps are still being made?


OTL means output transformerless. OTL tube amps do not use an output transformer. Generally, OTL tube amps are cheaper than ones that are transformer-coupled because a high quality output transformer is expensive. OTL tube amps can still sound really nice - look at the Glenn OTL or the Bottlehead Crack - but they work best with headphones that have a high impedance. Generally speaking, transformer-coupled tube amps do better with low impedance cans than OTL do because the output impedance of the amp can be changed. Some examples of transformer-coupled tube amps that have a variable output impedance are the AmpsandSound Kenzie and Woo Audio WA6.

Much of the time, tube amps give more of the "tube" sound than hybrids but a lot of it comes down to the design of the amp and what tubes you're using. Hybrid amps are made to be the best of both worlds. You get the output power and versatility of a solid state amp but with a little bit of the tube sound that you get with a full tube amp.

You could go pretty deep with research on the differences but I'm just trying to give a generic, high level response. Hopefully that helps.


----------



## Thenewbie76

rockytopwiz said:


> If you have heard a decent SS before, you will "get it" as soon as you hear a hybrid.  It's a SS with just a touch of magic.  Where the output transformerless is all magic, smoothed over sound with less Dynamics and punch but with an overall warmer tone.


Well I GOT a THX AAA 789 AMP but I get the idea . Thx  for the info


----------



## Thenewbie76

@Schwibbles wow dude. That's a lot of info. Thx for teaching me . Now I'm torn apart between getting the liquid platinum or a full tube design . Any recommendation for a full tube recommendation ? I only know that woo audio makes tube amps and maybe ZMF from their website. Edit= will reply later going sleep btw .


----------



## rockytopwiz

Thenewbie76 said:


> Well I GOT a THX AAA 789 AMP but I get the idea . Thx  for the info


I've been wanting to snag one of those thx to mess around with.  If you happen to get an LP let us know what you think about the two.


----------



## Schwibbles

Thenewbie76 said:


> @Schwibbles wow dude. That's a lot of info. Thx for teaching me . Now I'm torn apart between getting the liquid platinum or a full tube design . Any recommendation for a full tube recommendation ? I only know that woo audio makes tube amps and maybe ZMF from their website. Edit= will reply later going sleep btw .


No problem!

I haven't owned many tube amps but I've heard my fair share of them, including all the ones I mentioned before (except the WA6). Shoot me a PM and we can discuss it more without thread-jacking.

FWIW, the only other hybrid amp I've owned is the Garage 1217 Project Ember 2.1. The LP definitely sounds warmer/"tubier" than the Ember which was more solid-state like.


----------



## Schwibbles

Thenewbie76 said:


> Well I GOT a THX AAA 789 AMP but I get the idea . Thx  for the info





rockytopwiz said:


> I've been wanting to snag one of those thx to mess around with.  If you happen to get an LP let us know what you think about the two.



I just got to hear the 789 on Saturday! It's a much different experience from the LP as it sounds very sterile in comparison. Unfortunately I didn't get to hook it up to my DAC or spend a lot of time with it to do an in-depth comparison but the LP sounded much more natural and lifelike; especially across the treble. 
I usually use my Aeon closed to compare new gear because I have spent a ton of time with it and know what it sounds like. I'm more used to how it sounds out of the dac1541, LP, micro iDSD BL, and LS (spark) but in comparison to the 789, the 789 sounded brighter up top. Normally I don't hear any sibilance with the Aeon (with any of the other gear I mentioned) but the 789 brought out a little bit of it with certain tracks.


----------



## kumar402

Good to know that 789 is brighter. Now I have no qualms of missing the drop as I own 800 and 600 both are more suitable for warmer amp.


----------



## LCMusicLover

kumar402 said:


> Good to know that 789 is brighter. Now I have no qualms of missing the drop as I own 800 and 600 both are more suitable for warmer amp.


X-post from _somewhere else_:


			
				I said:
			
		

> I continue to be amazed how much better my HD-6xx sound out of this amp (running Siemens NOS E88CC, balanced output) than from the other amps I've tried with them (all SS: Bryston BHA-1, Violectric V280, Massdrop LC-X, Soundaware P1). I bought them mostly to have as a reference, since so many folks use them (or 650) as one of their 'comparison' sets in various reviews, but they never seemed that great. I got the whole '...they don't do many things very wrong', but the veil and the lack of bass impact made them seem ... lesser.
> 
> But out of my LP they are a revelation. Much better at both ends, without damage to the mids, which were always their highlight for me.
> 
> My ears, my chain (of course).


Similar results with your 600?  How about with your 800?


----------



## runeight

Schwibbles said:


> OTL means output transformerless. OTL tube amps do not use an output transformer. Generally, OTL tube amps are cheaper than ones that are transformer-coupled because a high quality output transformer is expensive. OTL tube amps can still sound really nice - look at the Glenn OTL or the Bottlehead Crack - but they work best with headphones that have a high impedance. Generally speaking, transformer-coupled tube amps do better with low impedance cans than OTL do because the output impedance of the amp can be changed. Some examples of transformer-coupled tube amps that have a variable output impedance are the AmpsandSound Kenzie and Woo Audio WA6.
> 
> Much of the time, tube amps give more of the "tube" sound than hybrids but a lot of it comes down to the design of the amp and what tubes you're using. Hybrid amps are made to be the best of both worlds. You get the output power and versatility of a solid state amp but with a little bit of the tube sound that you get with a full tube amp.
> 
> You could go pretty deep with research on the differences but I'm just trying to give a generic, high level response. Hopefully that helps.



Also, the Platinum is a particular type of hybrid and this "difference" is what gives it much of its SQ.

Most hybrids (but not all) have a front end tube stage (which makes the gain) which is capacitor coupled to a SS output stage (often unity gain) which provides the power output for the headphones.

The Platinum is what I call an "embedded" or "blended" hybrid. This means that the 6922 triodes are blended into the circuit without any coupling capacitors. There is no "front end" and "back end". It's just one blended amplifier, DC coupled from front to back. No coupling caps.

This embedded topology tends to smoothly integrate the tube sound and the SS sound into a single blended sound. The first CA commercial amp that did this was the Liquid Fire, then the Crimson and now the LP.

This also means that the low voltage SS power and the high voltage tube power are all in DC contact with each other. And this means that the LP has a careful startup sequence so that all of the DC voltage differences are managed. And this is why it is BAD to defeat the startup sequence by powering up/down using an external supply with the LP power button turned on.


----------



## rockytopwiz

runeight said:


> This is why it is BAD to defeat the startup sequence by powering up/down using an external supply with the LP power button turned on.


----------



## runeight

rockytopwiz said:


>



Good.


----------



## GlenT

kumar402 said:


> Good to know that 789 is brighter. Now I have no qualms of missing the drop as I own 800 and 600 both are more suitable for warmer amp.



I am currently using a Topping DX7S as a balanced DAC/SS AMP, Paired with HD600 cans and a balanced cable.  I also have a little LOXJIE P20 balanced tube amp to take the sharp edge of the SS amp in the Topping and using the DX7S to feed the P20.  I am also using a Sony PSHX500 turntable which allows recording LPs to DSD and have been able to get my hands on some original half-speed masters to record.  My favorite style of music is Blues, and I want to get as much isolation and definition as possible in the music.

I am looking to purchase the LP because of the balanced throughput and the tube aspect to tame some of the sharpness that can happen.  I plan to add an HD800S (using the balanced cable) to help achive my goal.

My question is (due to cost) which would make sense to buy first, the LP amp or the HD800S.  There will probably be months between purchases so I want to get the greater benefit first.


----------



## rockytopwiz

GlenT said:


> I am currently using a Topping DX7S as a balanced DAC/SS AMP, Paired with HD600 cans and a balanced cable.  I also have a little LOXJIE P20 balanced tube amp to take the sharp edge of the SS amp in the Topping and using the DX7S to feed the P20.  I am also using a Sony PSHX500 turntable which allows recording LPs to DSD and have been able to get my hands on some original half-speed masters to record.  My favorite style of music is Blues, and I want to get as much isolation and definition as possible in the music.
> 
> I am looking to purchase the LP because of the balanced throughput and the tube aspect to tame some of the sharpness that can happen.  I plan to add an HD800S (using the balanced cable) to help achive my goal.
> 
> My question is (due to cost) which would make sense to buy first, the LP amp or the HD800S.  There will probably be months between purchases so I want to get the greater benefit first.


Have you heard the hd800s?  The reason I ask is because it is a very different signature than the 600.  I would be affraid with blues and using vinyl it may be too analytical.  

That said, if you are looking for a different signature nothing will change it more than the headphones themselves.

Down the rabbit hole we go...


----------



## Schwibbles (Jan 17, 2019)

rockytopwiz said:


> Have you heard the hd800s?  The reason I ask is because it is a very different signature than the 600.  I would be affraid with blues and using vinyl it may be too analytical.
> 
> That said, if you are looking for a different signature nothing will change it more than the headphones themselves.
> 
> Down the rabbit hole we go...


Wow, beat me to it. I was going to say the same thing lol

EDIT: Wow I messed up my formatting.


----------



## llcook51

Wildcatsare1 said:


> The Lyr 3 and LP run about the same temperature, I do strongly preferring the LP. They are both great amps, but the LP has superior tonal reproduction, headstage, and bass. If you have darker headphones, perhaps the Lyr 3, but I’m very happy with the LP and the Abyss, ZMF Autuer and Focal Clear.


I use the LP with a wide variety of HPs: HEK v2; Ether 2; LDC-4; and HD 800S.  It seems to bring out the best qualities of each. The HD 800S is picky about amps. The LP lets it sing and presents a true, rich bass. The LCD-4 is pure cream with the LP.


----------



## llcook51

rockytopwiz said:


> Have you heard the hd800s?  The reason I ask is because it is a very different signature than the 600.  I would be affraid with blues and using vinyl it may be too analytical.
> 
> That said, if you are looking for a different signature nothing will change it more than the headphones themselves.
> 
> Down the rabbit hole we go...


I use the LP with the HD 800 S. Very nice. Controlled highs with a firm bass. Clear and precise.


----------



## GlenT

rockytopwiz said:


> Have you heard the hd800s?  The reason I ask is because it is a very different signature than the 600.  I would be affraid with blues and using vinyl it may be too analytical.
> 
> That said, if you are looking for a different signature nothing will change it more than the headphones themselves.
> 
> Down the rabbit hole we go...


I have not heard the HD800S' as I don't really have access to any, but I am looking for something that is more analytical than the 600's.  I also like the idea of having a wide soundstage (even for the blues).  I am hoping that the LP amp will pair well with the 800S' and give me the best (most precise) sound I can get in that price range.


----------



## kumar402

GlenT said:


> I have not heard the HD800S' as I don't really have access to any, but I am looking for something that is more analytical than the 600's.  I also like the idea of having a wide soundstage (even for the blues).  I am hoping that the LP amp will pair well with the 800S' and give me the best (most precise) sound I can get in that price range.


If you want something analytical with wider soundstage then 800s is the way to go. With stock  tube in LP, 800s sounds as it should. No coloration in treble is added. Very good soundstage and imaging. You can always roll the tube to get more warmer sound if needed


----------



## Pharmaboy

runeight said:


> Hey gents, I have a thought for all of you and would like to have some feedback from those who have very hot sources and need attenuation.
> 
> I know that some of you are using some kind of passive attenuation. In general, pure passive attenuation can affect the SQ because of the resistance introduced into the input stream turning the source from low impedance output to high(er) impedance output.
> 
> ...



As someone who's very interested in the LP, but somewhat hesitant based on its robust gain, I'd be extremely interested in your op-amp solution to gain adjustment.

FYI, I have a very serviceable passive volume controller (transformer-based) that I know sounds quite good. But inserting this PVC + the requisite 2nd interconnect (no matter how short) kind of go against the idea of getting maximum sonic transparency from a quality amp.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Thenewbie76 said:


> Since this is a tube amp it's not recommended I use it with IEMs and planar right? Only dynamic headphones. I have the hd 600 and ZMF aeolus which I plan to use. Would it be a good match up ?



I own 4 planars now (1 closed, 3 open). Only the closed one is really a power hog (ZMF Ori, great HP) while the others are varying shades of more efficient. But in my experience, all of them, even the most efficient, benefit from an amp with real power in reserve, like the LP. 

Ironically, this point just highlights the potential gain mismatch more: for my most efficient planar (HEX v2), I might be forced to use the volume pot on the LP at the low end of its range, possibly into non-linearity.

It's not just the LP. My DAC (Audio GD NOS 19, which no volume control) outputs 2.5 volts, 25% higher than the nominal 2 volts one expects from a DAC. So together, these devices might push gain a little higher than is comfortable...which brings us back to a passive volume controller or the opamp solution Alex mentioned.


----------



## DRHamp

runeight said:


> There is another way though. It would be a simple matter to create an active attenuator using high quality audio opamps. Attenuation would be done with a simple voltage divider before the opamp inputs. The easiest way to power such a thing would be two 9V batteries.
> 
> The advantage of this is that the source would still see a high impedance load, but the amp would see a low impedance source at the outputs of the opamps.
> 
> ...



I also would be very interested in this solution.   I'm one of those using a passive preamp and while I don't detect a degradation in sound quality, that probably has more to do with my hearing than with the introduction of the passive preamp.
I would be ok with powering by 9V batteries.  I'm unsure about the level of attenuation that would be needed, I think 6db would be close for my purposes.


----------



## rockytopwiz

I get wanting more play with the knob, but I have yet to notice any channel imbalance with my cans on my lp.  I get that people have said they only notice it on very sensitive headphones, but even at that I would wager to say the volume would have to be lower than most would listen at, like whisper quite.

Maybe I just got a good one.  But I think the Imbalance thing turned into a bigger deal than it should have been.  I certainly haven't been bothered by it, or even noticed.  I still control my volume through the LPs pot, and I have the option of using my dacs.  Ill probably try it eventually to get more play, but not for an Imbalance issue.


----------



## runeight

Thanks for the replies. If you are using a passive attenuator or plan to use one I think you should just keep on that path.

In the meantime I will think on how to do the active attenuator.


----------



## Thenewbie76

runeight said:


> This also means that the low voltage SS power and the high voltage tube power are all in DC contact with each other. And this means that the LP has a careful startup sequence so that all of the DC voltage differences are managed. And this is why it is BAD to defeat the startup sequence by powering up/down using an external supply with the LP power button turned on.


Will keep that in mind if I ever (hopefully) get the LP in the future.


----------



## Thenewbie76

Pharmaboy said:


> I own 4 planars now (1 closed, 3 open). Only the closed one is really a power hog (ZMF Ori, great HP) while the others are varying shades of more efficient. But in my experience, all of them, even the most efficient, benefit from an amp with real power in reserve, like the LP.
> 
> Ironically, this point just highlights the potential gain mismatch more: for my most efficient planar (HEX v2), I might be forced to use the volume pot on the LP at the low end of its range, possibly into non-linearity.
> 
> It's not just the LP. My DAC (Audio GD NOS 19, which no volume control) outputs 2.5 volts, 25% higher than the nominal 2 volts one expects from a DAC. So together, these devices might push gain a little higher than is comfortable...which brings us back to a passive volume controller or the opamp solution Alex mentioned.


Oh man I was thinking about getting the Hex V2. It's not such a deal breaker if I can't use it on sensitive headphones or IEMs and am still very into the LP. However my DAC the SMSL SU-8 has a separate volume control and I always have the volume control on the DAC at it's highest because that way  I never turn my gain to gain 3 on my THX AAA 789 AMP and it's always on the 2nd gain .But I am completely clueless on it's output volt.Hopefully if I do get the LP I won't need a preamp and can just adjust from my DAC.


----------



## ls13coco

Sorry for the ignorance, just trying to understand to learn more but is there a specific reason that it's not recommended to lower your source (ie foobar) volume while leaving your dac maxed, allowing more use of the LP volume pit on more sensitive HP's?
I've read plenty of leaving windows/dac maxed and controlling volume with the amps pot, so I feel like I'm missing something and as a future buying of this amp knowing is ideal!


----------



## Pharmaboy

Thenewbie76 said:


> Oh man I was thinking about getting the Hex V2. It's not such a deal breaker if I can't use it on sensitive headphones or IEMs and am still very into the LP. However my DAC the SMSL SU-8 has a separate volume control and I always have the volume control on the DAC at it's highest because that way  I never turn my gain to gain 3 on my THX AAA 789 AMP and it's always on the 2nd gain .But I am completely clueless on it's output volt.Hopefully if I do get the LP I won't need a preamp and can just adjust from my DAC.



Well, the DAC is really the only line level/source component you need worry about in a typical computer-USB-DAC-headphone amp setup. Just checked and here's what I find for the SMSL:

Output: RCA, XLR.
Output level: 2 Vrms (RCA), 4 Vrms (XLR)
So assuming you use the single-ended output from the DAC to amp(s), you shouldn't need to attenuate the DAC's output (headphone amps has a pot for exactly that reason). Another reason not to lower the volume pot on a DAC is whether the volume is attenuated digitally vs passively (if digital and lower-end design type, you could sacrifice digital info by attentuating output to any real degree). 

But I can't be sure about any of this because your profile is empty, sans the usual list of gear. You might consider setting up your profile so others can see your system and make informed suggestions. 

Gain is a funny thing. I have a number of amps (SS & OTL), and never set the gain above minimum. I can easily get too much gain that way. 

HEX v2 is an amazingly good headphone. I stopped caring about any other Hifiman model once I heard the HEX v2.


----------



## Pharmaboy

ls13coco said:


> Sorry for the ignorance, just trying to understand to learn more but is there a specific reason that it's not recommended to lower your source (ie foobar) volume while leaving your dac maxed, allowing more use of the LP volume pit on more sensitive HP's?
> I've read plenty of leaving windows/dac maxed and controlling volume with the amps pot, so I feel like I'm missing something and as a future buying of this amp knowing is ideal!



The usual reason not to lower a digital source is that the attenuation is accomplished inexpensively in the digital (not passive/electronic) realm--such that lowering gain = truncating bits of resolution. That's the case w/Foobar or pretty much any software program. 

If you have a separate DAC, the issue of attenuation can also arise if that DAC has a volume pot that's digitally implemented. Not all DACs have volume pots. Some of those that do are digitally implemented; others are done w/trad passive pots such as Alps.


----------



## Thenewbie76 (Jan 17, 2019)

@Pharmaboy well snap . I use the XLR for a balanced set up but won't mind using RCA I guess.Also I myself am unsure if the DAC reduces the volume digitally or passively ,I shall check the manual when I get back home tmr. Also I will update my profile. Edit=profile updated


----------



## hemtmaker

@Alex, any plans to bring the liquid tungsten back  ?


----------



## betula

Since noone has answered my question, I will ask again in a different way. 
Is the power cord detachable from the power supply itself like laptop power supplies? If it is detachable, what sort of connection does it use? Any of these two on the picture? Many thanks!


----------



## llcook51

GlenT said:


> I have not heard the HD800S' as I don't really have access to any, but I am looking for something that is more analytical than the 600's.  I also like the idea of having a wide soundstage (even for the blues).  I am hoping that the LP amp will pair well with the 800S' and give me the best (most precise) sound I can get in that price range.


The 800S pairs exceptionally well with the LP. EXtended highs; controlled full bass; wide sound stage. The 800S is picky about amps, but it loves the LP.


----------



## newtophones07

Pharmaboy said:


> Well, the DAC is really the only line level/source component you need worry about in a typical computer-USB-DAC-headphone amp setup. Just checked and here's what I find for the SMSL:
> 
> Output: RCA, XLR.
> Output level: 2 Vrms (RCA), 4 Vrms (XLR)
> So assuming you use the single-ended output from the DAC to amp(s), you shouldn't need to attenuate the DAC's output (headphone amps has a pot for exactly that reason). Another reason not to lower the volume pot on a DAC is whether the volume is attenuated digitally vs passively (if digital and lower-end design type, you could sacrifice digital info by attentuating output to any real degree).



So to clarify my own confusion.  In the case of the SMSL dac (running balanced XLR), are you recommending to max the volume of the *DAC*, set the volume on the AMP to a fixed level (for example at 50%) and then control the volume in software (I use Jriver)?

Or option B) max the volume on the dac, max the volume in software (jriver, in my case), and use the volume control on the AMP only?   The reason I ask, is because my LP has the slight channel inbalance at low volume (like 10%), it sounds beautiful above that.  But if the DAC volume is maxed, I have very little control at the amp end, as it gets pretty loud, quickly. The SMSL meausres 4.2Vrms at full volume.


----------



## jinxy245

betula said:


> Since noone has answered my question, I will ask again in a different way.
> Is the power cord detachable from the power supply itself like laptop power supplies? If it is detachable, what sort of connection does it use? Any of these two on the picture? Many thanks!


From the Monoprice website. it looks like it's the 1st of the 2 pics.


----------



## runeight

hemtmaker said:


> @Alex, any plans to bring the liquid tungsten back  ?



No comment.


----------



## betula

jinxy245 said:


> From the Monoprice website. it looks like it's the 1st of the 2 pics.


Thanks, I've seen this pic too, but it is not 100% obvious.


----------



## kumar402

newtophones07 said:


> So to clarify my own confusion.  In the case of the SMSL dac (running balanced XLR), are you recommending to max the volume of the *DAC*, set the volume on the AMP to a fixed level (for example at 50%) and then control the volume in software (I use Jriver)?
> 
> Or option B) max the volume on the dac, max the volume in software (jriver, in my case), and use the volume control on the AMP only?   The reason I ask, is because my LP has the slight channel inbalance at low volume (like 10%), it sounds beautiful above that.  But if the DAC volume is maxed, I have very little control at the amp end, as it gets pretty loud, quickly. The SMSL meausres 4.2Vrms at full volume.


Thats why everyone is looking for ways to attenuate sound at analog stage using preamp.
I hope your DAC is not doing digital attenuation and if it is not doing that then you can very well use it for volume control.


----------



## Pharmaboy

newtophones07 said:


> So to clarify my own confusion.  In the case of the SMSL dac (running balanced XLR), are you recommending to max the volume of the *DAC*, set the volume on the AMP to a fixed level (for example at 50%) and then control the volume in software (I use Jriver)?
> 
> Or option B) max the volume on the dac, max the volume in software (jriver, in my case), and use the volume control on the AMP only?   The reason I ask, is because my LP has the slight channel inbalance at low volume (like 10%), it sounds beautiful above that.  But if the DAC volume is maxed, I have very little control at the amp end, as it gets pretty loud, quickly. The SMSL meausres 4.2Vrms at full volume.



First, I confess that I've never run a balanced DAC in any system. So I have no idea if what appears to be double the output in volts coming from balanced vs SE output (4 volts vs 2 volts) is audible in the rest of the system. If it is, you must have a ton of gain in that system. 

But to answer your question: I would never do it the 1st way you outline--because you would be adjusting volume primarily in the digital realm in the computer. 

My recommendation would be OPTION B. But...if you're following other posts here, you know that some here have the LP and due to its inherently somewhat-higher-than-usual gain, are forced into operating its volume pot at the lowest, least linear levels (using the clock analogy, typically it's ~7:30AM to 9:00AM on the dial where the non-linearity is, if there is any). 

Especially in your system, that may well be the case, IF you forego adjusting volume in the digital realm. Which brings us back to suggestions to insert a passive (or active) volume controller in line just before the LP.

Based on everything you've told me, you should try to ascertain how the volume pot of the SMSL is implemented. If it's analog, not digital, then that pot becomes your "secret weapon." But if it's implemented digitally, it's probably no wiser to use that pot, than to adjust volume in Foobar/computer app.

Sorry I can't be definitive. This is all speculation. And in fairness to Monoprice & Alex, I wouldn't know if the LP was actually too "gain-ey" in my system unless I tried it.


----------



## atomicbob

betula said:


> Since noone has answered my question, I will ask again in a different way.
> Is the power cord detachable from the power supply itself like laptop power supplies? If it is detachable, what sort of connection does it use? Any of these two on the picture? Many thanks!


See picture of Liquid Platinum supplied SMPS:


 

Everything you need to know is contained in that picture. Standard IEC 320 C8 inlet on the Fuyuang SMPS. Voltages, currents, regulatory approvals can all be seen on the label.


----------



## betula

atomicbob said:


> See picture of Liquid Platinum supplied SMPS:
> 
> 
> Everything you need to know is contained in that picture. Standard IEC 320 C8 inlet on the Fuyuang SMPS. Voltages, currents, regulatory approvals can all be seen on the label.


Thank you so much! Finally.


----------



## zfisch1

I was wondering if it is unwise to plug in two headphones (se & balanced) at the same time - both are 300ohm? I want to do some A/B comparisons.
Thanks


----------



## newtophones07

Pharmaboy said:


> First, I confess that I've never run a balanced DAC in any system. So I have no idea if what appears to be double the output in volts coming from balanced vs SE output (4 volts vs 2 volts) is audible in the rest of the system. If it is, you must have a ton of gain in that system.
> 
> But to answer your question: I would never do it the 1st way you outline--because you would be adjusting volume primarily in the digital realm in the computer.
> 
> ...


Yep that's my issue, ie the high gain on the amp (LP), and the slight channel inbalance at 0-10% on the volume knob on the amp.  My DAC is so hot (4.2Vrms), that I can't even turn up the LP. To resolve the inbalance.  So for now I turn the DAC volume down, to compensate (30 of 38).  That of course "may" have some negative impacts on bit resolution.


----------



## kumar402

newtophones07 said:


> So to clarify my own confusion.  In the case of the SMSL dac (running balanced XLR), are you recommending to max the volume of the *DAC*, set the volume on the AMP to a fixed level (for example at 50%) and then control the volume in software (I use Jriver)?
> 
> Or option B) max the volume on the dac, max the volume in software (jriver, in my case), and use the volume control on the AMP only?   The reason I ask, is because my LP has the slight channel inbalance at low volume (like 10%), it sounds beautiful above that.  But if the DAC volume is maxed, I have very little control at the amp end, as it gets pretty loud, quickly. The SMSL meausres 4.2Vrms at full volume.



As per my understanding the DAC in SMSL SU - 8 is 32 Bit so you have lot of space to play with the volume control at DAC level. Since the volume control in the DAC has access to DAC datapath so the S/N ratio remains intact. Please note that using the digital volume from the S/F player may not impact the resolution in this scenario but the S/N ratio gets worse and that's where the digital volume control at DAC and Software are different since the volume control at DAC level has access to DAC internal datapath so S/N ratio is much better compared to S/F attenuation.
Some one who has better understanding please correct me if I am wrong


----------



## Monsterzero

Been reading thru this thread and have a couple questions.
Im currently running a GLM2 for my easier to drive headphones,like K701 and ATH AD2000s. I find the GLM2 to be good,but a bit "sterile" for a lack of a better word.

Questions: 
Is this amp overkill for the headphones listed above?
Anyone who has heard both the LP and GLM2 how do they differ sound wise?


I will be using it unbalanced.


----------



## Phantaminum

Monsterzero said:


> Been reading thru this thread and have a couple questions.
> Im currently running a GLM2 for my easier to drive headphones,like K701 and ATH AD2000s. I find the GLM2 to be good,but a bit "sterile" for a lack of a better word.
> 
> Questions:
> ...



Hey Monster, 

I think the amp will work wonders with with your current headphone stable. It sounds great with the Aeolus, Auteurs, Verites, and you're future proofing yourself in case you decide to purchase planars. 

I personally feel the GLMK2 is a great amp but you have to have the correct pairing to have it really flex its chops. That limits it but when it pairs right (like the Aeon Flow Opens) it sounds something great. To wrap things up - the LP will opens up the sound stage width, gives you flexibility to adjust the sound, and it is quicker than the GOTL.

If the price is a bit more than what you'd like to spend there's always the Massdrop CTH or Vali 2.


----------



## MikeW (Jan 20, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> Been reading thru this thread and have a couple questions.
> Im currently running a GLM2 for my easier to drive headphones,like K701 and ATH AD2000s. I find the GLM2 to be good,but a bit "sterile" for a lack of a better word.
> 
> Questions:
> ...



It's amusing someone using Gilmore lite mk II is considering this amp cause KG took a dump all over it on head case. He was rather critical of the rail split power design, volume pot, high gain and heat. Said it was a LYR3 competitor and also said LYR3 "had major problems in it's design". I wonder why KG always come's across so bitter in his post. He's clearly an excellent engineer, but he does sometimes criticize things that are not important, like Schiit's power switch, it's a power switch.. who cares. My main concern's with LP are it's high gain and power section, I do worry what would happen in brown-outs, when things are not shut down properly. I get at least half a dozen of those a year. In the end I think KG is/was not willing to make the kind of design compromise necessary to bring a high performance product to market at a sane price point. Because of this, he will never reach Schiit or even Cavali's market penetration. Schiit is an american company and they have mouth's to feed so to speak, they could stay home, do nothing and go broke, no need to run an audio company to do that.

I have the Jotunheim/Bifrost Multibit now, and am looking at upgrade options, LYR 3 and LP were runner ups. I don't know if LYR3 is a clear step up from Jotunheim though, or more of a side grade, and while LP definitely seems to be a step up, quality control, and gain switch are almost deal breakers for an expensive device like this.

Im considering selling my schiit and buying a Sokris 1541, i'd use it's built in amplifier for awhile, as it's a huge step up in price and really stretches my budget. May eventually get a better amp for it. Interestingly enough it also uses switchers, as does Nerochrome HPA1 and LP. Interesting we are seeing these in high end designs. It may be a new trend, even Schiit used a switcher in Magni 3, although that is a value product.

The "problem" with designs like O2, Nerochrome, Gilmore, and any that only care about measurements and raw engineering, insane THD levels, etc. They all pretty much sound the same, clean clean clean, dynamic and sterile as ****. Audio's too subjective.


----------



## runeight

MikeW said:


> It's amusing someone using Gilmore lite mk II is considering this amp cause KG took a dump all over it on head case. He was rather critical of the rail split power design, volume pot, high gain and heat. Said it was a LYR3 competitor and also said LYR3 "had major problems in it's design". I wonder why KG always come's across so bitter in his post. He's clearly an excellent engineer, but he does sometimes criticize things that are not important, like Schiit's power switch, it's a power switch.. who cares. My main concern's with LP are it's high gain and power section, I do worry what would happen in brown-outs, when things are not shut down properly. I get at least half a dozen of those a year. In the end I think KG is/was not willing to make the kind of design compromise necessary to bring a high performance product to market at a sane price point. Because of this, he will never reach Schiit or even Cavali's market penetration. Schiit is an american company and they have mouth's to feed so to speak, they could stay home, do nothing and go broke, no need to run an audio company to do that.



Regarding brownouts. If you use only the included SMPS power brick, you won't suffer from brownouts. The  brick should run from about 85VAC to 250VAC (IIRC). Unless you have really, seriously bad brownouts the amp should not notice the drop in voltage. One of the advantages of using SMPSs.


----------



## Monsterzero

Phantaminum said:


> Hey Monster,
> 
> I think the amp will work wonders with with your current headphone stable. It sounds great with the Aeolus, Auteurs, Verites, and you're future proofing yourself in case you decide to purchase planars.
> 
> ...



Thanks for replies. Im not looking at this amp for ZMF duty. Already have those covered with my GOTL.
Looking at it specifically for K701s and ATH AD2000s.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

MikeW said:


> It's amusing someone using Gilmore lite mk II is considering this amp cause KG took a dump all over it on head case. He was rather critical of the rail split power design, volume pot, high gain and heat. Said it was a LYR3 competitor and also said LYR3 "had major problems in it's design". I wonder why KG always come's across so bitter in his post. He's clearly an excellent engineer, but he does sometimes criticize things that are not important, like Schiit's power switch, it's a power switch.. who cares. My main concern's with LP are it's high gain and power section, I do worry what would happen in brown-outs, when things are not shut down properly. I get at least half a dozen of those a year. In the end I think KG is/was not willing to make the kind of design compromise necessary to bring a high performance product to market at a sane price point. Because of this, he will never reach Schiit or even Cavali's market penetration. Schiit is an american company and they have mouth's to feed so to speak, they could stay home, do nothing and go broke, no need to run an audio company to do that.
> 
> I have the Jotunheim/Bifrost Multibit now, and am looking at upgrade options, LYR 3 and LP were runner ups. I don't know if LYR3 is a clear step up from Jotunheim though, or more of a side grade, and while LP definitely seems to be a step up, quality control, and gain switch are almost deal breakers for an expensive device like this.
> 
> Im considering selling my schiit and buying a Sokris 1541.



There’s a lot of “love/hate” with his designs, they are wonderful amps (to my ears) with darker headphones, say Audeze. I don’t know poop about amp design, but I love the sound signature of Cavalli Amps, with all of my headphones, and those I’ve had in the past (current-Abyss 1266, Focal Clear, HD650, & Blackwood ZMF Auteurs, past-HD800, Ether Flow open/closed, various Grados, etc.). I had the Lyr3, and liked it a lot, though I prefer the LP (headstage, tonal accuracy, overall musicality). 

I never understood why people want to trash their competition, it doesn’t help you sell your product, and makes the company/person look small.


----------



## heliosphann

Monsterzero said:


> Thanks for replies. Im not looking at this amp for ZMF duty. Already have those covered with my GOTL.
> Looking at it specifically for K701s and ATH AD2000s.



I wouldn't dismiss the LP for your ZMF's so easily. I know the GOTL is quite a capable amp, but the LP was incredible with every ZMF dynamic I used on it.


----------



## Phantaminum

heliosphann said:


> I wouldn't dismiss the LP for your ZMF's so easily. I know the GOTL is quite a capable amp, but the LP was incredible with every ZMF dynamic I used on it.



Agreed. Condensing what I was trying to say: The amp sounds great with many different headphones. You can't go wrong @Monsterzero


----------



## franz12 (Jan 20, 2019)

I returned mine due to a defect. Was trying to get a replacement, but they said I need to reorder it because of it was bought via ebay. And they raised the price in the meantime.
However, I don't plan to rebuy it, because I found myself not missing it at all.

Honestly, I failed to find that sounds from the platinum are better than the balanced out from Fiio Q5.

I know that the platinum is way more powerful, but I don't need that much power for my headphones.
As always, your ears may vary.


----------



## kumar402 (Jan 20, 2019)

franz12 said:


> I returned mine due to a defect. Was trying to get a replacement, but they said it need to reorder it because of it was bought via ebay. And they raised the price in the meantime.
> However, I don't plan to rebuy it, because I found myself not missing it at all.
> 
> Honestly, I failed to find that sounds from the platinum is better than the balanced out from Fiio Q5.
> ...


I also bought mine from ebay with monoprice as seller. So it means in case i have any issue with amp i have to return and rebuy it? I got mine when ebay had some 10% discount going and LP at that time was for $699.
Now it is for $770


----------



## kumar402

Any one tried 6922 Amperex Holland made 1960s vintage gold pin with LP
I have HD800S, will this tube help with taming the brightness of Hd800s


----------



## Rattle

franz12 said:


> I returned mine due to a defect. Was trying to get a replacement, but they said it need to reorder it because of it was bought via ebay. And they raised the price in the meantime.
> However, I don't plan to rebuy it, because I found myself not missing it at all.
> 
> Honestly, I failed to find that sounds from the platinum is better than the balanced out from Fiio Q5.
> ...



Can you be more specific ? Return it to their eBay store ? Via eBay or return it to Monoprice themselves ? Reorder from who Monoprice store on ebay ?


----------



## heliosphann

kumar402 said:


> I also bought mine from ebay with monoprice as seller. So it means in case i have any issue with amp i have to return and rebuy it? I got mine when ebay had some 10% discount going and LP at that time was for $699.
> Now it is for $770





franz12 said:


> I returned mine due to a defect. Was trying to get a replacement, but they said I need to reorder it because of it was bought via ebay. And they raised the price in the meantime.
> However, I don't plan to rebuy it, because I found myself not missing it at all.
> 
> Honestly, I failed to find that sounds from the platinum are better than the balanced out from Fiio Q5.
> ...



I purchased a Monoprice M1060C from their Ebay store and returned it due to a defect. I asked for a replacement and they sent me one without having to rebuy it.


----------



## franz12

heliosphann said:


> I purchased a Monoprice M1060C from their Ebay store and returned it due to a defect. I asked for a replacement and they sent me one without having to rebuy it.



It was a strange process. First, they issued a RMA and a replacement was on the way via Fedex. Then the replacement was shipped back as requested by Monoprice.


----------



## Monsterzero

heliosphann said:


> I wouldn't dismiss the LP for your ZMF's so easily. I know the GOTL is quite a capable amp, but the LP was incredible with every ZMF dynamic I used on it.



Im not doubting its capabilities with ZMF headphones,but to finance a possible purchase of the LP I'd have to sell my GLM2,which I use for my AD2000s primarily,and to a lesser extent the K701s. 
I was just wondering what owners thoughts are for driving low ohm headphones. It is a calculated risk on my part as not many members here have the original AD2000s,not to mention theyre quite amp finicky.


----------



## heliosphann

Monsterzero said:


> Im not doubting its capabilities with ZMF headphones,but to finance a possible purchase of the LP I'd have to sell my GLM2,which I use for my AD2000s primarily,and to a lesser extent the K701s.
> I was just wondering what owners thoughts are for driving low ohm headphones. It is a calculated risk on my part as not many members here have the original AD2000s,not to mention theyre quite amp finicky.



Oh yea, I have a pair of those. I haven't tried them on the LP yet. I've also got an GLM1, which supposedly sounds very similar to the MK2. I'll let you know.


----------



## Monsterzero

heliosphann said:


> Oh yea, I have a pair of those. I haven't tried them on the LP yet. I've also got an GLM1, which supposedly sounds very similar to the MK2. I'll let you know.



That would help me tremendously. The GLM2 adds speed to an already super fast headphone,staging is very nice,but bass is a bit lacking. Let me know


----------



## Odin412

MikeW said:


> The "problem" with designs like O2, Nerochrome, Gilmore, and any that only care about measurements and raw engineering, insane THD levels, etc. They all pretty much sound the same, clean clean clean, dynamic and sterile as ****. Audio's too subjective.



I can relate to what you're saying. I don't really care about measurements as long as things sound good to me. What I really enjoy about the Cavalli amps is their liquid, almost magical midrange and smooth treble. I've been meaning to post my impressions of the Liquid Platinum but I just keep listening instead of writing. Right now I'm using the amp with the HD 650 - and what a great combo that is!


----------



## kumar402

It seems I have to send back mine for replacement as I feel imbalance even at higher volume. I get more sound out of left cup compared to right. I will test back more in the morning.


----------



## newtophones07

bummer, it seems one of my channels is dead, maybe its the tube I can't tell, so I will need to return it.   Makes me sad, hopefully the replacement has a lower gain.

How is the Mjolner 2 in comparison? more likely to last?


----------



## tenchi48 (Jan 21, 2019)

I'm writing to see if anyone else has had this issue.  I have had the amp since early December, first with the stock tubes and had been running with the Gold Lions last 2-3 weeks.  It sounds great and I have not had any problem prior to this. 

Tonight I was listening with the amp for 45min to an hour and it suddenly died.  No light, no power.  I switched it off.  And I waited for it to cool down a bit before trying to switch it back on.  No red light and just no sign of any power.  The power break's green light is still on so it doesn't look like it's the adapter. 

Any idea?

Update:  Just noticed the power switch's green light flashes when I switched the amp on.  Also tried switching back to stock tubes.


----------



## MikeW

Damn, when it rain's it pours. 3 failure post back to back.


----------



## Schwibbles

MikeW said:


> Im considering selling my schiit and buying a Sokris 1541, i'd use it's built in amplifier for awhile, as it's a huge step up in price and really stretches my budget. May eventually get a better amp for it. Interestingly enough it also uses switchers, as does Nerochrome HPA1 and LP. Interesting we are seeing these in high end designs. It may be a new trend, even Schiit used a switcher in Magni 3, although that is a value product.
> 
> The "problem" with designs like O2, Nerochrome, Gilmore, and any that only care about measurements and raw engineering, insane THD levels, etc. They all pretty much sound the same, clean clean clean, dynamic and sterile as ****. Audio's too subjective.


I love my dac1541 and can highly recommend it;especially paired with the LP. It is an excellent DAC and a good amp. I used it as my only DAC/amp (at home) for almost a year. It also pairs really nicely with the LP; and most amps for that matter. Once I got the LP, I realized that the amp in the Soekris wasn't as good as I thought it was.
The 1541 is a nice all in one unit that should easily get you by until you decide to get a standalone amp in which case the LP is a great choice.

One thing to note... You can't stack the LP on top of the 1541. Besides the size mismatch, the LP runs pretty warm. I notice a bit of noise from the XLR outputs of the Soekris when I put a warm amp on (or under) it and heat it up too much.


----------



## MikeW (Jan 21, 2019)

Well, I’ve pretty much written the current mono price iteration of LP off. Too high failure rate for my own comfort level. I’ve been considering RME adi 2 And Soekris 1541.

RME has great feature set, and soekris looks like damn near end game Dac with a serviceable amp, the amp in particular looks quite a bit better then what’s in the RME. If the specs are to be believed it’s quite powerful. I’d not expect it to stand up to mid-fi stand alone amps, would probably pair it a tube amp down the line. I’m still quite undecided, but looking at 1000-1500$ options to replace my current jot/bifrost stack. If that means getting a great Dac with a mediocre built in amp and upgrading down the line to a better amp im ok with that


----------



## Phantaminum (Jan 21, 2019)

MikeW said:


> Well, I’ve pretty much written the current mono price iteration of LP off. Too high failure rate for my own comfort level. I’ve been considering RME adi 2 And Soekris 1541.
> 
> RME has great feature set, and soekris looks like damn near end game Dac with a serviceable amp, the amp in particular looks quite a bit better then what’s in the RME. If the specs are to be believed it’s quite powerful. I’d not expect it to stand up to mid-fi stand alone amps, would probably pair it a tube amp down the line. I’m still quite undecided, but looking at 1000-1500$ options to replace my current jot/bifrost stack. If that means getting a great Dac with a mediocre built in amp and upgrading down the line to a better amp im ok with that



There will be failures. I've had failures with Schiit amps, Sennheiser headphones, IEMS, etc. The question is will the company that you purchased from have the customer service that you need to easily return the item and receive your replacement. I'm sure RME and Soekris have had their fair share of failures as well.

I've had two problems with Schiit's Gungnir MB. I paid to have it repaired since it was out of warranty. The second time it came back it also took a nose dive and they paid for the shipping both ways with nothing out of pocket. It's been running rock solid for about a year now without any issues. Monoprice has a 5 year warranty and are willing to replace it when their customer experience issues. One negative would be that they do not have a repair center for this amp like Schiit does. So if the amp fails after the warranty expires, well....


----------



## atomicbob

MikeW said:


> Damn, when it rain's it pours. 3 failure post back to back.


Remember failures are more likely to receive public attention. 

For another data point I now have two Liquid Platinums. The first one received damage to the power control mosfet during my Linear Power Supply measurements when I failed to verify the Liquid Platinum power switch in off position before applying power from the LPS. That unit has since received hundreds of very enjoyable listening hours with no further issues provided proper power up and power down sequencing is followed. The second unit is performing as expected when used with the supplied SMPS with no issues.

For what it's worth, I rather enjoy either (RME ADI-2 Pro or Gungnir MB A2) + Liquid Platinum with HD6x0 / HD800. They provide complimentary functions. ADI-2 Pro is better suits me for dialog editing and 2-bus listening to mixes. Gungnir MB A2 is my pick for recreational listening.


----------



## MikeW

Thanks for the feedback bob. I wish Gumby was not Xbox huge, and schiit had a competitive matching amp, Mjolnir 2’s not aging so well, outclassed by LYR3 and LP. Part of 1541’s appeal is its form factor. From what I gather it’s a Gumby rev1 competitor, don’t know how it stacks up to a2, either way it’s tiny.


----------



## tenchi48

tenchi48 said:


> I'm writing to see if anyone else has had this issue.  I have had the amp since early December, first with the stock tubes and had been running with the Gold Lions last 2-3 weeks.  It sounds great and I have not had any problem prior to this.
> 
> Tonight I was listening with the amp for 45min to an hour and it suddenly died.  No light, no power.  I switched it off.  And I waited for it to cool down a bit before trying to switch it back on.  No red light and just no sign of any power.  The power break's green light is still on so it doesn't look like it's the adapter.
> 
> ...



I just want to provide an update, I called Monoprice support on phone regarding the problem and was told that I should be able to get a replacement.  Because I purchased through ebay, I was asked to go through the seller channel on ebay, which I did and am now in the waiting game.  

However, my biggest concern moving forward (and for others who purchased through ebay), is that do we always have to go through ebay?  What if my order record expire on ebay? With the 5 year warranty and from what I know, ebay cut off order history at 3 year point.  And what if monoprice is no longer a seller on ebay?  I tried to bring that up with support but was simply told to save a record and otherwise the rep wasn't able to address my concern clearly.  Because if that's the case, why can't I simply work out a replacement directly showing proof of purchase?  This left me slightly frustrated at this point.


----------



## skyline315

tenchi48 said:


> I just want to provide an update, I called Monoprice support on phone regarding the problem and was told that I should be able to get a replacement.  Because I purchased through ebay, I was asked to go through the seller channel on ebay, which I did and am now in the waiting game.
> 
> However, my biggest concern moving forward (and for others who purchased through ebay), is that do we always have to go through ebay?  What if my order record expire on ebay? With the 5 year warranty and from what I know, ebay cut off order history at 3 year point.  And what if monoprice is no longer a seller on ebay?  I tried to bring that up with support but was simply told to save a record and otherwise the rep wasn't able to address my concern clearly.  Because if that's the case, why can't I simply work out a replacement directly showing proof of purchase?  This left me slightly frustrated at this point.


If you save your original invoice, it shouldn't matter.  5 years is 5 years.  If they can't handle the return through ebay, then they would be expected to handle it through other avenues.

Glad they're taking care of you.


----------



## kumar402

tenchi48 said:


> I just want to provide an update, I called Monoprice support on phone regarding the problem and was told that I should be able to get a replacement.  Because I purchased through ebay, I was asked to go through the seller channel on ebay, which I did and am now in the waiting game.
> 
> However, my biggest concern moving forward (and for others who purchased through ebay), is that do we always have to go through ebay?  What if my order record expire on ebay? With the 5 year warranty and from what I know, ebay cut off order history at 3 year point.  And what if monoprice is no longer a seller on ebay?  I tried to bring that up with support but was simply told to save a record and otherwise the rep wasn't able to address my concern clearly.  Because if that's the case, why can't I simply work out a replacement directly showing proof of purchase?  This left me slightly frustrated at this point.


Good to know that they are replacing for those who bought from ebay.

May be good idea to save invoice


----------



## Thenewbie76

Can someone with this product just tell me , how does it sound compared to a true OTL tube amp like the dark voice or the little dot mk3? Cause I am planning to get it , but I wanna since its a hybrid AMP  how much of that 'tube' sound signature does it give? Cause I really want that 'tube' sound. I don't mind getting the dark voice or little dot mk3 as my first tube OTL AMP but I just though that I would not mind spending more on a hybrid if it means I can power up planars also.


----------



## Wes S

Thenewbie76 said:


> Can someone with this product just tell me , how does it sound compared to a true OTL tube amp like the dark voice or the little dot mk3? Cause I am planning to get it , but I wanna since its a hybrid AMP  how much of that 'tube' sound signature does it give? Cause I really want that 'tube' sound. I don't mind getting the dark voice or little dot mk3 as my first tube OTL AMP but I just though that I would not mind spending more on a hybrid if it means I can power up planars also.


I am getting mine tomorrow, and will compare it against my Lyr 3 and a Valhalla 2 .  I will report back, after I have had some time with it.  I went for another hybrid design, so that I can use a wider range of headphones.  I do one day hope to get another TOTL OTL for my ZMF Aeolus, but for now I am sticking with hybrids.


----------



## Thenewbie76

@Wes S  Pls do bro. I also got a ZMF aeolus on the way and am thinking if I should get a pure tube amplifier or hybrid. Because if  the liquid platinum still offers a 100% of that tube sound and not just 50% , I will be buying it. If not then I might just have to re-evaluate all my options


----------



## skyline315

Thenewbie76 said:


> @Wes S  Pls do bro. I also got a ZMF aeolus on the way and am thinking if I should get a pure tube amplifier or hybrid. Because if  the liquid platinum still offers a 100% of that tube sound and not just 50% , I will be buying it. If not then I might just have to re-evaluate all my options


Your perspective on tube amps is a mess.

There's no such thing as "100% of that tube sound".

The Valhalla 2 is a 100% tube design, but it's viewed by many to be on the dry analytical side of the spectrum.  While other hybrid amps such as the Project Ember II are considered to be warmer and mushier sounding.

Sound doesn't fit neatly into a tube v hybrid perspective.

Also, the LP and the other amps you mentioned such as the Little Dot MkIII are simply not in the same class.  If you want a pure tube design that can compete with the LP, then you're going to have to look elsewhere.


----------



## Thenewbie76

@skyline315 well damn. I can see that you have the liquid platinum , could you tell me how it sounds with the hd 650 in comparison to other tube amps and SS if you have had before?


----------



## skyline315 (Jan 22, 2019)

It's the best amp I've owned with the 650s.  They are already warm headphones, so I don't want an amp that plays that out even more.  The LP brings the 650s alive by making them sound dynamic and clear, without robbing them of the smooth midrange that makes them special.  Bass is impactful without being overdone and the treble is extended but smooth.  Soundstage width is excellent.  Depth is a bit lacking, but is not an issue for me.  Vocals are pushed slightly out front so it sounds as if the vocalist and band are not all lying on a straight line which is enough for me. 

The Lyr 3 was very good, but a bit less dynamic.  The Vali 2 is also an excellent match for the 650s.  I could say that the LP is very similar to the Vali 2, tonally, but with better technicalities across the board.  The Ember II with the 650 is not even in the discussion here. 

The Valhalla 2 is also an excellent match for the 650s, but it's on the leaner side.  The LP sounds more organic and natural.


----------



## Wes S

LP is arriving tomorrow and I have these tubes on deck -

Amperex PQ 7308
Siemens A frame E88CC
Philips Miniwatt SQ E188CC
Telefunken E88CC

Time for some tube rolling fun!


----------



## Schwibbles

Wes S said:


> LP is arriving tomorrow and I have these tubes on deck -
> 
> Amperex PQ 7308
> Siemens A frame E88CC
> ...


Looking forward to your impressions of each of those tubes. I love the Amperex ones I have now but I'm getting an itch to try more. RIP wallet


----------



## LCMusicLover

skyline315 said:


> It's the best amp I've owned with the 650s...


I concur -- listening via LP with Siemens E88CC is the first time I really appreciated my HD-6xx.


> ...The LP sounds more organic and natural.


...compared to my (technically excellent) Bryston BHA-1.


----------



## funch

Wes S said:


> LP is arriving tomorrow and I have these tubes on deck -
> 
> Amperex PQ 7308
> Siemens A frame E88CC
> ...



I'm especially interested in your impressions of the PQ's. I have one in my stash and may pick up another.


----------



## kumar402

Any one tried 6922 Amperex Holland made 1960s vintage gold pin with LP
I have HD800S, will this tube help with taming the brightness of Hd800s


----------



## Wildcatsare1

kumar402 said:


> Any one tried 6922 Amperex Holland made 1960s vintage gold pin with LP
> I have HD800S, will this tube help with taming the brightness of Hd800s



I do have the Amperex, but no longer have the HD800, I can tell you they sound phenomenal with the Focal Clear, ZMF Autuer and the Abyss 1266.


----------



## LCMusicLover

funch said:


> I'm especially interested in your impressions of the PQ's. I have one in my stash and may pick up another.


I am running:

AMPEREX PQ Gray Plate O Getter 6922 Tubes (made in Hungary)

...and they sound very good with Utopia -- smooths the highs, delivers more body in the bass region, all without killing detail/dynamics that I love.  I actually was thrilled with the LP/Gold Lion/Utopia pairing, and my Siemens E88CC also work well with Utopia (all my cans, really).

Being a tube nubee  I really wonder how much difference there is between my O-getter 6922 PQ and an A-frame 7308 PQ. Comparing tubes seems nearly impossible, between shutting down, swapping the tubes, waiting for the start-up cycle and then re-volume matching. It's like I need a second LP to compare tubes side-by-side, but I'm pretty sure that's not happening!


----------



## Zachik

LCMusicLover said:


> Being a tube nubee  I really wonder how much difference there is between my O-getter 6922 PQ and an A-frame 7308 PQ. Comparing tubes seems nearly impossible, between shutting down, swapping the tubes, waiting for the start-up cycle and then re-volume matching. It's like I need a second LP to compare tubes side-by-side, but I'm pretty sure that's not happening!


I agree - comparing tubes is (to me at least) very hard!  
One cannot quickly go between 2 tubes, unless you have 2 amps... now that's an idea... hmmm....


----------



## betula

I am receiving my LP on Friday. Can't wait to compare the sound to my CMA600i. The DAC is a 2Qute.

I am really wondering how much the LP stands up in clarity to the 600i and whether I prefer a more lush, more tuby sound from the LP vs my dynamic and punchy 600i. 
All from the 2Qute which is a very detailed and clear DAC.

This will be my first real adventure to tube land. I only had the Vali which is a very basic hybrid. 
Cant wait to find out what I like more.


----------



## Wes S

Zachik said:


> I agree - comparing tubes is (to me at least) very hard!
> One cannot quickly go between 2 tubes, unless you have 2 amps... now that's an idea... hmmm....


I think we might need a LP tube rolling thread. . .once things really get going and more people have them.  I learned a ton of info, from the Lyr tube rolling thread.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Wes S said:


> I think we might need a LP tube rolling thread. . .once things really get going and more people have them.  I learned a ton of info, from the Lyr tube rolling thread.



X2


----------



## llcook51

Phantaminum said:


> Agreed. Condensing what I was trying to say: The amp sounds great with many different headphones. You can't go wrong @Monsterzero


Agree completely. Brings out the best in my: HEK v2; LCD-4; Ether 2; HD 800S.


----------



## mat.1

Hi, I have 6h30 DP from BAT , can I use them ?


----------



## betula

I have found this from Mr Cavalli himself. I thought it might be useful to share:

"The characteristics of the SMPS are part of the design.

Part of its behavior is its current limiting when over loaded. This overloading happens at turn on for a very brief period of time and the SMPS does its thing by limiting the current. The power circuit in the Platinum is expecting this to happen.

Using an LPS that does not current limit or has huge capacitors at its output or can otherwise dump a lot of current into the DC jack is definitely a RISK. It is likely out of the design envelope of the power management portion of the amp.

Though I am not Monoprice I have to recommend that you don't use LPSs with this amp and that you do stick with the supplied SMPS.

It is designed to perform extremely well with this supply. "


----------



## atomicbob

Here are some links concerning SMPS vs LPS.

The warning and power on / off procedure:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...ical-measurements.894843/page-2#post-14641335

Detailed measurement comparison of SMPS vs LPS:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...ical-measurements.894843/page-2#post-14641331


----------



## Odin412

I wanted to add my impressions of the Liquid Platinum (LP) amp to this thread as well.

The amp is physically quite a bit larger than the original Liquid Carbon amp, which I also have and love. The LP feels solid and is well built. The buttons have a satisfying click, the headphone sockets feel solid and the motion of the volume control has a nice and creamy feel to it. Inserting the tubes is a bit difficult since the opening holes in the chassis are somewhat small and the tube sockets are recessed quite deeply, but some patience (and avoiding using too much force) is rewarded here. The amp gets quite warm while in operation – not painfully hot to the touch, but close.

This amp (or more likely the tubes) needs a long burn-in before sounding its best. After the first turn-on it sounds a bit grainy in the treble, but it settles down after 100 hours or so. I’ve only used the supplied stock Electro-Harmonix tubes so far. I have to admit that I don’t really find that different 6922 tubes sound that different from one another (and that includes some vintage Amperex and Mullard tubes), but I did like the new-production Gold Lion tubes in my Woo Audio WA3 amp so I’ll try those with the LP at a later time. No doubt aficionados of vintage tubes will strongly disagree with me here, but that’s OK. This is a hobby – it’s supposed to be fun!

So how does the LP sound? It sounds very good to my ears. It has the trademark magical Cavalli liquid midrange and smooth treble, and the bass is deep and juicy. When comparing the LP to my old Liquid Carbon it’s surprising how similar they sound, especially in the bass and midrange. The most obvious difference is that the LP has a more present treble, although it’s very smooth and not at all grating. Yes, I realize that I’m saying that a tube hybrid amp sounds slightly brighter than a solid-state amp, but that’s what I’m hearing. I’m very treble sensitive and the treble on the LP doesn’t bother me (meaning that I notice that the LP has a slightly brighter sound, but it doesn’t sound at all harsh or sibilant), but if you have brighter-sounding headphones the Liquid Carbon may be a better match – depending on your preferences, of course.

One headphone that sounds really good to me with the LP is the HD 650. Yes, the venerable HD 650 – one of the all-time greatest headphones if you ask me. This combo is absolutely fabulous, especially in the midrange. You know how sometimes it can be hard to hear the lyrics on some songs? When using the HD 650 with the LP I find that I can more easily understand the lyrics in less-than-perfect recordings. Last weekend I was listening to some old AC/DC recordings and I finally realized what they were saying. Very cool. The HD 650/LP combo also makes older and poorer sounding recordings enjoyable. It makes it fun to explore my music archive. Like, what audio equipment is supposed to make you do, not just listen to the same old demo tracks.

I’m very happy with the LP and look forward to many more house of musical enjoyment.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> No problem folks. Been rolling tubes for 4 years now. They're the best savers hands down. They are more money , but you get what you pay for.
> 
> Also, like I said. Any info on tubes for your amp. The Lyr thread is a wealth of information.
> I subscribed to this thread because I'm interested in this amp and will be purchasing one after I see some comparisons to amps like Lyr2 ,MJ2 ...etc.
> Looks solidly built.


Pardon the old quote bro, have you heard any official/unofficial stance on rolling 2C51/396A, 6N3P? In addition to ECC81, 6201 etc. With adapters? Thanks bro.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Guidostrunk said:


> Be careful with the bakelite savers on ebay. They're not made very well, and people have ruined gear with them. Tubemonger savers are the best. Here's a link to their site. Give them a few days to re-stock. Also, if you guys are going to be rolling tubes. Check out the Lyr rollers thread for all the rolling info you'll ever need.
> Cheers
> https://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm


I went to this site, and they were 'Out of Stock' at the time.

Back in stock now.


----------



## TK16

LCMusicLover said:


> I went to this site, and they were 'Out of Stock' at the time.
> 
> Back in stock now.


They told me they will be back in stock end of January, says out of stock. Been waiting for a replacement pair since October.


----------



## DRHamp

TK16 said:


> Pardon the old quote bro, have you heard any official/unofficial stance on rolling 2C51/396A, 6N3P? In addition to ECC81, 6201 etc. With adapters? Thanks bro.



I've rolled 2C51/396A and they work fine with the proper adapter.  ECC81/6201 have not worked for me, seems to be gain issue.  12AU7 however work well, again with the proper adapter.


----------



## LCMusicLover

TK16 said:


> They told me they will be back in stock end of January, says out of stock. Been waiting for a replacement pair since October.


Wow, I guess I was lucky to catch them in stock — they must have gotten a very small batch.


----------



## TK16

LCMusicLover said:


> Wow, I guess I was lucky to catch them in stock — they must have gotten a very small batch.


Is this the one you got?
https://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm

There's a similar one with a center screw in stock.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Yes, that’s the one.


----------



## TK16

LCMusicLover said:


> Yes, that’s the one.


Thanks, sent them a message. They should keep a small number aside for return purposes. Not sell every freaking pair they got and have people waiting months for a replacement. If those Chinese socket savers weren't junk, I'd take my business elsewhere.


----------



## bluesaint

TK16 said:


> Thanks, sent them a message. They should keep a small number aside for return purposes. Not sell every freaking pair they got and have people waiting months for a replacement. If those Chinese socket savers weren't junk, I'd take my business elsewhere.



that said, is it a good idea to have 2 adapters going on at same time when using 396a/2c51/5670 tubes? ie. tube>6922 adapter>tube saver > socket?


----------



## TK16

bluesaint said:


> that said, is it a good idea to have 2 adapters going on at same time when using 396a/2c51/5670 tubes? ie. tube>6922 adapter>tube saver > socket?


You mean socket saver then the adapter? Been doing that for a few years. Some use 2 socket savers back to back so they can run the larger tubes.


----------



## bluesaint

TK16 said:


> You mean socket saver then the adapter? Been doing that for a few years. Some use 2 socket savers back to back so they can run the larger tubes.


----------



## ChaChaRealSmooth (Jan 24, 2019)

I'm really surprised this amp hasn't gotten more attention. It really can compete with the high-end amps, even with just stock tubes. I tried this on my main system with a Gungnir Multibit and also with a Massdrop x Grace SDAC (fed through a Wyrd) with several different headphones.

And this goes without saying, but I'm no pro, nor does my hearing represent any kind of average, etc. YMMV.

*Overall Thoughts:*

First of all, if you're looking for that rich tubey sound, this is NOT the amp for you (at least with the stock tubes; I have not tried any tube rolling). With the stock tubes, the sound is pretty neutral, just leaning a little bit on the warm side, but not much.

If you're coming from a budget amp and this is your first foray into the mid-high priced amps, this will blow you away. It's head and shoulders above amps like the Magni 3, Liquid Spark, Atom, etc. in pretty much every category.
More than adequate power to drive any headphone I threw at it (unsure about something like the HE-6 because I don't have one at my disposal.

For some reason, less fatiguing than the Schiit amps I own, especially when it came to listening to some modern pop. Not sure why I think so.
Loses a lot by using the SE out. If you're considering buying this, pretend the SE out doesn't exist. It's worse in every sonic category.
Does seem to be better balanced-in, but I'm not sure if that's just the Gungnir MB being better balanced. The difference is_ incredibly_ small and might be subject to expectation bias; completely confident in saying I'd spectacularly fail a ABX test.
*Listening Impressions:*

Soundstage has great width, but is not necessarily that deep. I'm not certain, but I think my Lyr 3 has a deeper stage (I will try to put the Liquid Platinum on the main system with the Lyr for a more direct comparison and update this post accordingly). However, it is not_ bad_ in this area; just not excellent.
Extension in the bass and treble areas seems excellent. I don't hear any discernable roll-off.
I do feel this amp sounds leans towards being polite, but it exudes musicality and has a fantastic, smooth timbre.
Bass sounds well-controlled, easily on par or better than the Lyr 3. Good differentiation in pitch and notes have satisfying texture.
Mids are wonderful. Not sure I would say the sound is liquid, but it is smooth and has this sort of airy quality. Unsure of how to describe this entirely, but this is easily my favorite part of its sound.
The treble almost has this ethereal quality at times that I find turns my brain into mush and I love it.
*Notes on Headphone Pairings (keep in mind I have not listened to every available headphone):*


For those with low impedance, high efficiency headphones like the Focal Clear, this might not be the best pairing unless you're willing to attenuate the signal either via preamp or digital. For reference, I find it ear-splitting loud at just under 9 o'clock on the dial with the HD 6XX. On the upside, I don't detect any real channel imbalance on my model even when staying pretty low (under 8:00) on the pot.
It's worth noting here that the SE output will help with flexibility on the pot with the really efficient stuff; however, the sound just suffers in every category. As noted before, I really don't recommend this.

For the HD 6XX (and I presume the HD 650), this amp definitely pairs really well. The experience gains soundstage and the highs/air will mitigate the "veil/fogginess" that the unmodded HD 6XX can have.
This will NOT tame any headphones that you find too bright. Remember, this amp is more neutral than anything else. Maybe tube rolling would make this pair better in that case. That being said, it's a decent pairing with the HD 800S, but I find that this headphone somewhat accentuates the somewhat flatter stage of the Liquid Platinum. Again, different tubes might fix this.
Really fantastic with any planar magnetic I tried. I had a good time with any Audeze (A-grade ones at least; I loved my 2016 LCD-3 through these), and the two Hifimans (HE-4XX, HE-5) also seemed to be powered well. Doesn't seem to_ quite_ eliminate the sensation of the three-blob stage that some of them can have, but definitely much improved. The Hifiman headphones in particular lost a lot of the plasticky timbre that I hate.

Spectacular job Dr. Alex Cavalli! Now if I can just get my grubby mitts on a Liquid Crimson to compare directly....


----------



## Guidostrunk

Only info so far from a pm I received was that the 6201 do not work in the LP. For whatever reason they create noise in the circuit. I believe there's a few that have gone the 396a route with success. No word on 6C8G. Lol


TK16 said:


> Pardon the old quote bro, have you heard any official/unofficial stance on rolling 2C51/396A, 6N3P? In addition to ECC81, 6201 etc. With adapters? Thanks bro.


----------



## Thenewbie76

@ChaChaRealSmooth thx for the quick review of it. I was hoping the LP would have that rich tube sound but since it does not I shall look elsewhere


----------



## LCMusicLover

Thenewbie76 said:


> @ChaChaRealSmooth thx for the quick review of it. I was hoping the LP would have that rich tube sound but since it does not I shall look elsewhere


It gets tubier if you move away from stock tubes -- I don't have enough recent experience with tube amps to say how tuby.


----------



## Wes S (Jan 24, 2019)

The Amperex PQ and LP create the most beautiful textured, smooth and open sounding midrange.  The first thing that jumped out at me was the tone.  Everything sounds more lifelike, than from the lyr 3.  This amp is a keeper!  Now back to the music and breaking this baby in . . .


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Only info so far from a pm I received was that the 6201 do not work in the LP. For whatever reason they create noise in the circuit. I believe there's a few that have gone the 396a route with success. No word on 6C8G. Lol


Deal breaker for me then, as you know the 6201PW Hamburg are my favorite tubes. Thanks.


----------



## DRHamp (Jan 24, 2019)

Guidostrunk said:


> Only info so far from a pm I received was that the 6201 do not work in the LP. For whatever reason they create noise in the circuit. I believe there's a few that have gone the 396a route with success. No word on 6C8G. Lol


That was probably me @Guidostrunk - 2C51/396A 50s Foton Triple micas are very nice in the LP.  I tried a variety of 12AT7/6201/ECC81 and all exibited audible noise to varying degrees however the 12AU7/ECC82 work very well and Telefunken smooth plate 12AU7s are exceptional in the LP.  Talking with one of your fellow Lyr tube rollers, we concluded it was likely a gain issue with the 6201s


----------



## funch

Why are we putting 12-volt heater tubes in an amp designed for 6-volt heaters?


----------



## DRHamp

funch said:


> Why are we putting 12-volt heater tubes in an amp designed for 6-volt heaters?



Double triodes of the 12AU7 family have a center-tapped filament for use in either 6.3V 300mA or 12.6V 150mA heater circuits.

This does mean they require an adapter


----------



## TK16

funch said:


> Why are we putting 12-volt heater tubes in an amp designed for 6-volt heaters?


On my tube tester, the ECC81 family is tested with 12.6 volts, but they can run either 12.6v or 6.3v in amps dac's etc as @DRHamp stated.


----------



## Monsterzero

DRHamp said:


> Double triodes of the 12AU7 family have a center-tapped filament for use in either 6.3V 300mA or 12.6V 150mA heater circuits.
> 
> This does mean they require an adapter



Im a huge fan of Telefunken sound,and am considering this amp. Can you share what adapter is required to use them in the LP?


----------



## skyline315

Monsterzero said:


> Im a huge fan of Telefunken sound,and am considering this amp. Can you share what adapter is required to use them in the LP?


None, if you get a telefunken 6dj8.

It seems like people are putting the tubes before the amps...


----------



## TK16

Monsterzero said:


> Im a huge fan of Telefunken sound,and am considering this amp. Can you share what adapter is required to use them in the LP?


These are it bro.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gold-plate...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649


----------



## DRHamp

TK16 said:


> These are it bro.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gold-plate...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649



Those are the ones I use also


----------



## Guidostrunk

True, but even the Tele E188cc is inferior to the 12a*7 variants. There's nothing in the 6922 variants that I would chose over the best 12a*7 tubes. 


skyline315 said:


> None, if you get a telefunken 6dj8.
> 
> It seems like people are putting the tubes before the amps...


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> True, but even the Tele E188cc is inferior to the 12a*7 variants. There's nothing in the 6922 variants that I would chose over the best 12a*7 tubes.


Had 2 pair of the Telefunken ECC88, found them rather mediocre. The E88CC pair was better, still got the E188CC,  but they go for too much nowadays. Have not heard the Tele 12A*7 variants yet though.


----------



## skyline315

Different tubes sound better/worse in different amps. It's about synergy.

Buying amps to suit tubes rather than the other way around feels like putting the cart in front of the horse.

IMO, of course.


----------



## Wes S

skyline315 said:


> Different tubes sound better/worse in different amps. It's about synergy.
> 
> Buying amps to suit tubes rather than the other way around feels like putting the cart in front of the horse.
> 
> IMO, of course.


Good advice.  I made this mistake witht the Lyr 3 and have a bunch of tubes, i will probably never use again.


----------



## TK16

DRHamp said:


> Those are the ones I use also


https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-ECC83-12...-Tube-Amp-Convert-Socket-Adapter/283129866984
Got a pair of these. Little better looking imo and made of ceramic. But they magnify microphonic tubes to be even worse.


----------



## Wes S

Oh man!  The freaking bass with texture you can feel!!!  This LP rocks with the Amperex 7308 PQ and ZMF Ori, with clean clear, and extra liquid mids with great extension in the highs, with no sibilance and a Wide stage. . .


----------



## Wes S (Jan 25, 2019)

I have discovered an amazing pairing, between the ZMF Blackwood and the LP.  I have been using the Blackwood with my Lyr 3 and Jotunheim, and they sounded really good, but they have scaled to another level with the LP.  I am using my modi multibit as the dac, and the Amperex 7308.


----------



## DRHamp

12 of the Tubemonger socket savers in stock https://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

Thanks! Make that 8 left....


----------



## sahmen

TK16 said:


> Thanks, sent them a message. They should keep a small number aside for return purposes. Not sell every freaking pair they got and have people waiting months for a replacement. If those Chinese socket savers weren't junk, I'd take my business elsewhere.



If you send a PM to @cv4109 , who frequents this site occasionally, he will let you know, if they have some stock in reserve, or when they should their next round of supplies.  It's how I got my own pair


----------



## sahmen

TK16 said:


> Thanks, sent them a message. They should keep a small number aside for return purposes. Not sell every freaking pair they got and have people waiting months for a replacement. If those Chinese socket savers weren't junk, I'd take my business elsewhere.






sahmen said:


> If you send a PM to @cv4109 , who frequents this site occasionally, he will let you know, if they have some stock in reserve, or when they should their next round of supplies.  It's how I got my own pair






DRHamp said:


> 12 of the Tubemonger socket savers in stock https://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm


Opps!  I guess that renders my previous post a little redundant for now.


----------



## TK16

sahmen said:


> Opps!  I guess that renders my previous post a little redundant for now.


Nah you were just trying to help, no harm in that.


----------



## Wes S (Jan 25, 2019)

DRHamp said:


> 12 of the Tubemonger socket savers in stock https://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm


Interesting, with the vibration reduction.  Not much of a fan of adding anything, not needed to the chain, but those are tempting.  I would have loved those for my Valhalla 2, as that thing could get noisy.


----------



## Coolblue

Thanks! ...got a pair for me too... down to 6 in stock!


----------



## Wes S (Jan 25, 2019)

Coolblue said:


> Thanks! ...got a pair for me too... down to 6 in stock!


Will they fit into the hole in the LP, it is quite tight with just a tube?


----------



## sahmen

Wes S said:


> Will they fit into the hole in the LP, it is quite tight with just a tube?



Yes they fit quite nicely.


----------



## Wes S (Jan 25, 2019)

sahmen said:


> Yes they fit quite nicely.


Do they come out with the tube, or do they stay in when you pull the tube?  I used a bunch of the chinese adapters in the past and they just came right out with the tube.


----------



## sahmen

Wes S said:


> Do they come out with the tube, or do they stay in when you pull the tube?  I used a bunch of the chinese adapters in the past and they just came right out with the tube.



They will stay put, if you have pushed them down far enough into the sockets, in the first place, as one should.  At any rate, the set up is done in such a way that you can remove the tube with one hand while holding down the socket saver with a finger on the other hand, if necessary.  Personally, I have not had to do even that, because the socket savers always hold firm in their slots when tubes are being removed.

I did experience a few odd incidents of looseness of the savers in the first couple of days of use, but I soon realized it was because I had not pushed them far enough down their sockets to make them stay put...


----------



## LCMusicLover

sahmen said:


> They will stay put, if you have pushed them down far enough into the sockets, in the first place, as one should.  At any rate, the set up is done in such a way that you can remove the tube with one hand while holding down the socket saver with a finger on the other hand, if necessary.  Personally, I have not had to do even that, because the socket savers always hold firm in their slots when tubes are being removed.
> 
> I did experience a few odd incidents of looseness of the savers in the first couple of days of use, but I soon realized it was because I had not pushed them far enough down their sockets to make them stay put...


I hold the tube saver down with an ice cream stick while pulling up the tube.  I suspect the sockets on the tube saver will loosen up over time and this problem will go away.  No big deal though.

And it's MUCH easier to fit the tube into the socket in the tube saver which is about flush with the amp cover, vs fitting them directly into the amp, down in the hole.  Especially if the pins on the tube aren't perfectly straight.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Wes S said:


> Good advice.  I made this mistake witht the Lyr 3 and have a bunch of tubes, i will probably never use again.



I can relate, hopefully a couple of the pairs can be used in my future GOTL.


----------



## Wes S (Jan 25, 2019)

Wildcatsare1 said:


> I can relate, hopefully a couple of the pairs can be used in my future GOTL.


I will hopefully have one of those too, someday, but for now, and i mean as i am tying this, the LP is blowing my mind.  The bass is unreal with the Ori.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Wes S said:


> I will hopefully have one of those too, someday, but for now, and i mean as i am tying this, the LP is blowing my mind.  The bass is unreal with the Ori.



Ditto as well, absolutely love the R2R DAC, LP and the Autuers, all my other amps and headphones are on the sales block.


----------



## betula

I am not keeping the Liquid Platinum. Here is why.

I don't know too many budget amps (under $500), but I imagine the LP is better than most of them. I think it still is a great option for the US retail price, considering the potential of tube rolling. 
Importing to Europe (£790) starts to seriously question the price/performance ratio especially if you look at the secondhand market.

I have tested the LP against my CMA600i and against the iFi Pro iCan. The truth in a nutshell is that both the CMA600i and the Pro iCan are in a different league compared to the LP. (DACs used are the 2Qute and the Pro iDSD)

LP has a nice, liquid sound. Very sophisticated, very delicate. Very detailed. Details are on pair with the two other amps. Vocals are as nice as they are on the 600i and better than on the Pro iCAN. 

My biggest problem with the LP vs. these two other amps is that it just sounds thin. Too delicate, too polite. Nice, nuanced amp, but there is no meat on the bones. Perhaps the most neutral from the bunch and surprisingly the least tuby sounding. (Except iCAN in SS mode.) Even my CMA600i has a smoother and more rounded, richer sound. My other big problem with the LP apart from the relatively lean sound is the weakness of the bass. It is just not there, neither in quantity, nor in quality compared to the two other amps. The LP is definitely a mid-centric amp and while it does midrange beautifully, seriously lacks in the bass department. Treble is also less pronounced, however it is quite clear that helps with detail retrieval. 

I know, it is somewhat unfair to compare the LP to more expensive amps. It is still quite a good option for US retail price, especially if someone is into acoustic, vocal or classical music. However I wouldn't recommend the LP for EDM at all due to the relatively anaemic bass compared to dynamic SS amps.

I was surprised, how much more tuby the CMA600i (current amplification) sounds. More rounded, richer, smoother, fuller, better texture. Keep in mind, the 600i's DAC is quite useless. You need to pair it with a good DAC. (See above.)

I don't want to trash the LP as it is indeed a nice, delicate, very refined amp for the price. But don't fool yourself that it offers a top shelf performance for the fraction of the price.  

This is my 2 cents on the LP. It is a good amp for the price if you are into vocals and acoustic music, but won't replace your higher-end amps.


----------



## Wes S (Jan 26, 2019)

betula said:


> I am not keeping the Liquid Platinum. Here is why.
> 
> I don't know too many budget amps (under $500), but I imagine the LP is better than most of them. I think it still is a great option for the US retail price, considering the potential of tube rolling.
> Importing to Europe (£790) starts to seriously question the price/performance ratio especially if you look at the secondhand market.
> ...


What tubes and headphones were you using, if you dont mind me asking?  I am a big electronic music fan, not dance music, and with the LP, the bass hits so hard with the Ori, i am worried i am going to blow out my ears.  I am not defending the LP, and dont care if you like it or not, but i would hope the Questyle CMA 600i, is in a different league, as it cost almost twice as much. . .


----------



## betula

Wes S said:


> What tubes and headphones were you using, if you dont mind me asking?  I am a big electronic music fan, not dance music, and with the LP, the bass hits so hard with the Ori, i am worried i am going to blow out my ears.


LCD2C and stock tubes. Bass on the 600i and on the Pro iCan is on another level. Speed, clarity, punch, body, slam, quantity all significantly better. LP being a nice and polite amp is not in the race with these two other amps.


----------



## Wes S (Jan 26, 2019)

betula said:


> LCD2C and stock tubes. Bass on the 600i and on the Pro iCan is on another level. Speed, clarity, punch, body, slam, quantity all significantly better. LP being a nice and polite amp is not in the race with these two other amps.


Cool thanks for the info!  I would love to hear those amps some day.  However, for now the benefits of tune rolling with the LP, are real.


----------



## TK16

betula said:


> LCD2C and stock tubes. Bass on the 600i and on the Pro iCan is on another level. Speed, clarity, punch, body, slam, quantity all significantly better. LP being a nice and polite amp is not in the race with these two other amps.


Don't have your LP, but am using the LCD2C currently. I prefer them with warmer tubes. If you want some recommendations let me know.


----------



## betula

Wes S said:


> Cool thanks for the info!  I would love to hear those amps some day.  However, for now the benefits of tune rolling with the LP, are real.


Enjoy the ride, that's all this is about. We will reach each stop in time. So why don't we enjoy the journey instead of waiting for the next stop in mind. 
A thought often forgotten on Head-Fi.


----------



## skyline315

Wes S said:


> Cool thanks for the info!  I would love to hear those amps some day.  However, for now the benefits of tune rolling with the LP, are real.


I've heard them.

I prerfer the LP.  

*shrug*


----------



## betula

TK16 said:


> Don't have your LP, but am using the LCD2C currently. I prefer them with warmer tubes. If you want some recommendations let me know.


Thanks, but I don't think another tube can solve my issues with the LP. Tubes are for fine tuning.


----------



## betula

skyline315 said:


> I've heard them.
> 
> I prerfer the LP.
> 
> *shrug*


DAC matters a LOT. But at the end of the day we all have different preferences. Different music, different sound. What we share is the love of music and sound quality.


----------



## sahmen (Jan 26, 2019)

betula said:


> I am not keeping the Liquid Platinum. Here is why.
> 
> I don't know too many budget amps (under $500), but I imagine the LP is better than most of them. I think it still is a great option for the US retail price, considering the potential of tube rolling.
> Importing to Europe (£790) starts to seriously question the price/performance ratio especially if you look at the secondhand market.
> ...



^^^Interesting impressions, but could you tell us a little more about the components deployed in each of the chains you have compared here? Without meaning to suggest that you are misrepresenting things as you personally experienced them,  I wonder whether you can reveal more about the components in each of the chains (source==DAC==Amp==HP and even the cable used with the HP, and whether you were listening in "balanced" or "SE" mode in each case). I am asking, because what I find interesting in your impressions is just how much some aspects of them differ from my own experiences.  I refer mostly to your complaint about what you are calling the "thinness" of the LP's sound, the lack of "meat" on the bones of its sound, and its "anaemic" bass etc etc.

Personally, I run two chains side by side, so to speak:

Chain #1 is :Metrum Ambre (Roon) ==>> Metrum Onyx DAC ==LP ==>> (hifiman he 1000, Audeze LCD-X, LCDi4, MX4, Sennheiser HD-800, and others, with Norne Draug v3 and Silvergarde aftermarket, and sometimes, stock cables)...

What I find in this particular chain, is not an LP which is one-sidedly thin or anaemic, but an amp which reacts quite sensitively to all its surrounding components, including even the type of cables one is using at a particular time (we could also go into the rabbit hole of tubes and tube rolling, but let's leave that aside for now)...  So sometimes I get "polite" and "ethereal" (I wouldn't say thin or lean), and sometimes I get full thick mids, and big thumping low-ends, and various shades of "grey" in between. I find that it all depends on the source content and surrounding components... I guess the clichéd expression I am looking for is "System Synergy," and I do get a variety of sound sigs/flavors from that chain.

Full disclosure: I also have a system deployed in parallel to the above one, as I mentioned earlier:

Sonore Ultrarendu (Roon) ==>> Schiit Yggdrasil A2 ==>> Violectric V281 ==>> (+Any or all the headphones listed in chain #1 above). Sometimes, I enjoy going back and forth between the two chains and savoring the differences (subtle and not so subtle) and similarities I can monitor between the two... There are interesting differences between the two rigs, that i cannot go into here.  Let me just say that I have not particularly noticed the difference between "thin mids/weak bass" and "full/meaty mids/non-anaemic bass", that you have pointed to in your impressions.

Of course YMMV, and I am not making any accusations here, in asking these questions... I am just looking for insight and enlightenment.,


----------



## Rattle

I'd like to hear those 2x as expensive amps with proper recordings that are non compressed and have analog origins


----------



## betula

sahmen said:


> ^^^Interesting impressions, but could you tell us a little more about the components deployed in each of the chains you have compared here? Without meaning to suggest that you are misrepresenting things as you personally experienced them,  I wonder whether you can reveal more about the components in each of the chains (source==DAC==Amp==HP and even the cable used with the HP, and whether you were listening in "balanced" or "SE" mode in each case). I am asking, because what I find interesting in your impressions is just how much some aspects of them differ from my own experiences.  I refer mostly to your complaint about what your are calling the "thinness" of the LP's sound, the lack of "meat" on the bones of its sound, and its "anaemic" bass etc etc.
> 
> Personally, I run to chains side by side so to speak:
> 
> ...


I happily go into such discussions as these can be beneficial for all.
As I said before most of my listening was done with my Audeze LCD2C. I used balanced mode with all amps, I have got a 4pin Toxic Silver Widow cable with my 2Cs.

LP is definitely a very transparent amp, meaning it won't add much personality to the sound. It lets other components of the hi-fi chain to shine through. 

What I find obvious is the texture, thickness, body to the sound which was much leaner with the LP compared to the 600i or Pro iCan. And a more robust and layered bass response vs the LP's politeness.


----------



## Wes S

I dont think i could physically handle a more layered or robust bass response, than what i am getting with the LP.  Damn, those amps must literally shake your brain!


----------



## betula (Jan 26, 2019)

Wes S said:


> I dont think i could physically handle a more layered or robust bass response, than what i am getting with the LP.  Damn, those amps must literally shake your brain!


They do, especially the iCAN.  The 600i is somewhere half-way there. You never know there is higher up unless you try. This is the beauty and curse of this hobby. Don't try gear that you can't afford is my motto. Which I try to keep myself to with more or less success. Usually less than more success. Wallet suffers a lot these days.


----------



## LCMusicLover

betula said:


> Thanks, but I don't think another tube can solve my issues with the LP. Tubes are for fine tuning.


My ears think you are mistaken.  I was unimpressed with LP w/ stock tubes which to my ears produced a somewhat thin, dry presentation. The minute I swapped in my Gold Lions, my opinion was reversed. Amperex PQ and Siemens NOS E88CC continued the progression to a sound somewhat on the meatier side of neutral. While not a huge difference, to my ears the changes were still transformative.

In addition, saying those amps are 'in a different league' suggests they are 'much better' (whatever that means). What I read from you post is more about 'different' rather than 'better'.

That said, if your ears are happy with your other amps, then good for you.


----------



## Rattle

Wes S said:


> I dont think i could physically handle a more layered or robust bass response, than what i am getting with the LP.  Damn, those amps must literally shake your brain!



I guess that's what you'd want if you listened to EDM/brickwalled basshead recordings...


----------



## betula

LCMusicLover said:


> My ears think you are mistaken.  I was unimpressed with LP w/ stock tubes which to my ears produced a somewhat thin, dry presentation. The minute I swapped in my Gold Lions, my opinion was reversed. Amperex PQ and Siemens NOS E88CC continued the progression to a sound somewhat on the meatier side of neutral. While not a huge difference, to my ears the changes were still transformative.
> 
> In addition, saying those amps are 'in a different league' suggests they are 'much better' (whatever that means). What I read from you post is more about 'different' rather than 'better'.
> 
> That said, if your ears are happy with your other amps, then good for you.


Well, better for my ears. Much better.
More convincing, more authoritative sound with better extension both to low-end and treble. Better, more lifelike and thicker texture, overall more enjoyable. 
I haven't tried the LP with other tubes but I believe an amp should give a good picture of its capabilities with stock tubes.
To my ears it was no contest between these three amps (using stock tubes with the LP).


----------



## ls13coco

betula said:


> They do, especially the iCAN.  The 600i is somewhere half-way there. You never know there is higher up unless you try. This is the beauty and curse of this hobby. Don't try gear that you can't afford is my motto. Which I try to keep myself to with more or less success. Usually less than more success. Wallet suffers a lot these days.



Interesting read, the LP is the most expensive amp/dac component that I plan to buy so I do appreciate reading your views. I am wondering if you have thoughts of the LP having used with other headphones too?
I recently got the LCD-2c and I am very much impressed/in-love with it, and I find the bass to be even more impressive than with the x00 PurpleHeart (though the PH does seem punchier).
Does this mean you may have a LP for sale soon??  Lol


----------



## betula

ls13coco said:


> Interesting read, the LP is the most expensive amp/dac component that I plan to buy so I do appreciate reading your views. I am wondering if you have thoughts of the LP having used with other headphones too?
> I recently got the LCD-2c and I am very much impressed/in-love with it, and I find the bass to be even more impressive than with the x00 PurpleHeart (though the PH does seem punchier).
> Does this mean you may have a LP for sale soon??  Lol


Returning to Amazon USA from UK. Unless you are in Europe it is not worth it for you. 2C kills X00 indeed.


----------



## ls13coco

betula said:


> Returning to Amazon USA from UK. Unless you are in Europe it is not worth it for you. 2C kills X00 indeed.



Fair, I just know I am not pulling the trigger at its current retail price as I watched it jump from 6-odd hundred to $769. Canadian dollar is too poor right now to be comfortable with that!

Did you find much useable adjustment of the volume paired with the 2c? (asking due to the complaints of high-gain)


----------



## LCMusicLover

betula said:


> ...I believe an amp should give a good picture of its capabilities with stock tubes...


Don’t want to start a religious argument, but I believe the stock tubes are quite ‘vin ordinaire’, and do NOT give a good picture...





> ...To my ears it was no contest between these three amps (using stock tubes with the LP).


This


----------



## betula

ls13coco said:


> Fair, I just know I am not pulling the trigger at its current retail price as I watched it jump from 6-odd hundred to $769. Canadian dollar is too poor right now to be comfortable with that!
> 
> Did you find much useable adjustment of the volume paired with the 2c? (asking due to the complaints of high-gain)


Funny enough regardless the different output power of the three amps I set the volume on all of them between 10-11 o'clock. 
LP is said to output 3.6W, the iCan is a monster outputting 14W (yes, fourteen), the 600i offers just under 2W at 70Ω, all of them balanced. The 600i is a bit different though, as it has current amplification instead of voltage amplification which means its driving capabilities are much higher than the output power would suggest. 
So yes, it was an interesting experiment and the conclusion is: numbers help only to some extent. The real try of a pie is eating.


----------



## betula

LCMusicLover said:


> Don’t want to start a religious argument, but I believe the stock tubes are quite ‘vin ordinaire’, and do NOT give a good picture...
> This


Fair enough, but I don't think any other tube would change my opinion. The difference was so obvious and strong. To my ears at least.


----------



## Schwibbles (Jan 26, 2019)

betula said:


> I am not keeping the Liquid Platinum. Here is why.
> 
> I don't know too many budget amps (under $500), but I imagine the LP is better than most of them. I think it still is a great option for the US retail price, considering the potential of tube rolling.
> Importing to Europe (£790) starts to seriously question the price/performance ratio especially if you look at the secondhand market.
> ...


Hmm... Very interesting take. I don't have stock tubes to use so I can't compare directly. I urge you to try some different tubes in the LP because most people seem to have a pretty good experience with the amp after swapping the tubes out. I notice pretty substantial differences in sound between the Gold Lion tubes and some older Amperex tubes. 

Disregarding price, I prefer the LP to the Pro iCAN. I didn't really like the iCAN when I had it. The features, power, and form factor were awesome but the sound left something to be desired. I thought it sounded dull and somewhat lacking in clarity; in SS and tube modes. I don't have either of those issues with the LP. During the time I had it, it was paired to a Soekris dac1541 and an HD800S. I wish I could try it again with my Utopia. I feel it deserves another chance; especially since you have such a different opinion of it. I wonder if there was something that I missed.

I can't compare to the 600i but I should be getting an opportunity to demo the CMA Twelve soon and will definitely compare to that. It's unfortunate that the Twelve doesn't have any analog inputs though.


----------



## betula

Schwibbles said:


> Hmm... Very interesting take. I don't have stock tubes to use so I can't compare directly. I urge you to try some different tubes in the LP because most people seem to have a pretty good experience with the amp after swapping the tubes out. I notice pretty substantial differences in sound between the Gold Lion tubes and some older Amperex tubes.
> 
> Disregarding price, I prefer the LP to the Pro iCAN. I didn't really like the iCAN when I had it. The features, power, and form factor were awesome but the sound left something to be desired. I thought it sounded dull and somewhat lacking in clarity; in SS and tube modes. I don't have either of those issues with the LP. During the time I had it, it was paired to a Soekris dac1541 and an HD800S. I wish I could try it again with my Utopia. I feel it deserves another chance; especially since you have such a different opinion of it. I wonder if there was something that I missed.
> 
> I can't compare to the 600i but I should be getting an opportunity to demo the CMA Twelve soon and will definitely compare to that. It's unfortunate that the Twelve doesn't have any analog inputs though.


The LP has some advantages over the Pro iCan. The sound is more delicate and lighter/easier. The Pro iCan can be very much upfront, almost aggressive. Even though the dynamism, extension and speed is obviously on the iFi's side. 
The 600i is somewhat in-between. Not as dynamic and tight as the Pro iCan but thicker and more pleasing than the LP. 
The LP can still be a valid choice with a good DAC and hp-s and perhaps other tubes, regardless of price. But not for EDM. IMO.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

betula said:


> Fair enough, but I don't think any other tube would change my opinion. The difference was so obvious and strong. To my ears at least.



I have an AudioGD Master-11 Singularity that outputs 16000mW at 25ohm.  For my ears, I prefer the LP for most of my music (rock), i just use the AGD for its BB DAC most of the time.

IMHO - LP's std tubes & gold lions are boring, too polite for my tastes.  May as well listen to my SS gear which has some serious grunt.  Too bad you're returning the amp, rolling NOS tubes changes the sound tremendously.  

My absolute favourite tubes thus far has been NOS Philips SQ E188CC tubes that were made by Mullard - rich mids, strong bass and a nice sparkle in the treble.  Also have run 1975 holy grail Reflektors, a bit more polite with my existing gear but very holographic - these i'm told pair really well with the ZMF Verite, running them in while waiting for my cans.   Songs like Algorithm on Muse's Simulation Theory album - the bass on the LCD2C is absolutely, utterly bonkers with the Mullard tubes.  

I also have a matched pair of WE396A but the adaptors were faulty so I didnt get to try them in the LP yet.  Eyeing a pair of Tesla cross sword red/blue tips next.  Or maybe try 12au7 mullards / telefunkens from my other amp once i get adaptors made.


----------



## betula

UsoppNoKami said:


> I have an AudioGD Master-11 Singularity that outputs 16000mW at 25ohm.  For my ears, I prefer the LP for most of my music (rock), i just use the AGD for its BB DAC most of the time.
> 
> IMHO - LP's std tubes & gold lions are boring, too polite for my tastes.  May as well listen to my SS gear which has some serious grunt.  Too bad you're returning the amp, rolling NOS tubes changes the sound tremendously.
> 
> ...


You might be right, but I was also hesitating to go down in the rabbit hole of tube rolling. If an amp doesn't catch my attention enough with stock tubes, I won't invest more energy in trying to 'fix it' with other tubes. There are so many amps available these days.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

betula said:


> You might be right, but I was also hesitating to go down in the rabbit hole of tube rolling. If an amp doesn't catch my attention enough with stock tubes, I won't invest more energy in trying to 'fix it' with other tubes. There are so many amps available these days.



err.. humbly disagree, it's not about 'fixing' anything.  

rolling tubes = different flavours of sound to match one's tastes , mood , gear , music 

but to each his own... tube rolling is indeed a black hole, not just a rabbit hole haha.  besides my LP, i have a very nice Cayin HA-1A mk2 with a cache of NOS tubes.  And i have a Glenn OTL 9-tube amp coming soon.....


----------



## betula

UsoppNoKami said:


> err.. humbly disagree, it's not about 'fixing' anything.
> 
> rolling tubes = different flavours of sound to match one's tastes , mood , gear , music
> 
> but to each his own... tube rolling is indeed a black hole, not just a rabbit hole haha.  besides my LP, i have a very nice Cayin HA-1A mk2 with a cache of NOS tubes.  And i have a Glenn OTL 9-tube amp coming soon.....


Tube rolling is also a bit time consuming. I don't have that much time these days.

And to explain my views a bit better, tubes are like sauces on ice-cream. Sure, it changes the taste for one's liking, but it doesn't change the ice-cream. If I don't like vanilla I won't like it with more chocolate sauce either.


----------



## skyline315

Stop being amp evangelists.  @betula doesn't like it.

Let the poor guy (or girl) go about their merry way.


----------



## betula

skyline315 said:


> Stop being amp evangelists.  @betula doesn't like it.
> 
> Let the poor guy (or girl) go about their merry way.


 I am not an evangelist. Just shared my experience after comparing three amps. There is no objective truth. At least not in this hobby.


----------



## jmac1516

betula said:


> You might be right, but I was also hesitating to go down in the rabbit hole of tube rolling. If an amp doesn't catch my attention enough with stock tubes, I won't invest more energy in trying to 'fix it' with other tubes. There are so many amps available these days.


Your opinion is valuable to information seekers--they can do with it what they want.  Thank you for offering your observations!  No one could/should challenge what you prefer.

You are also fortunate to have a couple other very solid amps so enjoy some music!


----------



## skyline315

betula said:


> I am not an evangelist. Just shared my experience after comparing three amps. There is no objective truth. At least not in this hobby.


I know.  I was talking to everyone else who kept trying to change your mind.


----------



## betula

skyline315 said:


> I know.  I was talking to everyone else who kept trying to change your mind.


We all hear differently. After some years in the hobby I am confident enough to trust my hearing versus others opinion.


----------



## heliosphann

I had a 600i when it first came out.

Thought it was decent sounding, but it only paired well with a handful of headphones. I'd take the LP over it all day. YMMV.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Some 396a adapters , and a pair of we396a may change your mind. 
Even more convincing is the 6n3p 1950's foton triple mica(same 396a adapter). If you can find them. Every amp I've ever purchased had not so good stock tubes. 

Of course it's all subjective. Just an opinion on the matter. 


Cheers



betula said:


> Fair enough, but I don't think any other tube would change my opinion. The difference was so obvious and strong. To my ears at least.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

skyline315 said:


> I've heard them.
> 
> I prerfer the LP.
> 
> *shrug*



Would agree, particularly the Pro iCan, which I thought was highly unmusical and lacked “soul.”


----------



## betula

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Would agree, particularly the Pro iCan, which I thought was highly unmusical and lacked “soul.”


There is truth in this statement. Not true for the 600i though. It all comes down to pairings, headphones and music genres. Not to mention personal preference.


----------



## jinxy245

It does seem to have a lot riding on the chain/synergy. 

I'd be curious which DACs are used...I don't think I'd be a fan of the qutest, since I got rid of my Hugo (V1)...it didn't tic the boxes for me (not calling you out or anything, that was the only DAC I recall being mentioned, & I am familiar with the Chord sound to an extent)

. If the LP is that transparent to source, it seems the DAC would make a big(ish) difference. 

My iCan Pro is OK for now, but may be upgraded in the future.

I do enjoy my MCTH, but that's also somewhat of a weak link...I bought it for my 1st foray into the tube world. 
Also fine for now, but the LP seems like an upgrade in almost every aspect....I must hear one for myself.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

betula said:


> There is truth in this statement. Not true for the 600i though. It all comes down to pairings, headphones and music genres. Not to mention personal preference.



Thanks, I’m looking forward to listening to the 600i one of these days. Is the 2C a pretty dark Can?


----------



## jinxy245

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Thanks, I’m looking forward to listening to the 600i one of these days. Is the 2C a pretty dark Can?


Fairly on the 'dark side'. Solid bass, excellent extension downward sloping after 1K or so.
I imagine it'd be a good pairing with the LP

IF measurements if you like those:
https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudezeLCD2Classic.pdf


----------



## TK16 (Jan 27, 2019)

Just placed an order for 1.

Has anybody tried the 6CC41/6N2P in the LP? They are a drop in replacement in my other 6922 variant amps and dac. No adapter needed.


----------



## LCMusicLover

TK16 said:


> Just placed an order for 1.
> 
> Has anybody tried the 6CC41/6N2P in the LP? They are a drop in replacement in my other 6922 variant amps and dac. No adapter needed.


This post from @runeight regarding subbing in 6n6p tubes is fairly definitive. Lots of related discussion in subsequent posts.


runeight said:


> 6.3V at 330mA MAX. You'll need two tubes.
> 
> Both heaters and HV are powered by small SMPSs. The plate voltage on and the current in the tubes is controlled regardless of tube type until the auto bias cannot account for the operating point of the tube. Which then means it doesn't behave like a 6922 or close to a 6922.
> 
> ...


----------



## TK16

LCMusicLover said:


> This post from @runeight regarding subbing in 6n6p tubes is fairly definitive. Lots of related discussion in subsequent posts.


Thanks read that already, was wondering if anybody tried them in the thread.


----------



## Wes S (Jan 28, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Thanks read that already, was wondering if anybody tried them in the thread.


@ TK16 - Yes!  A true tube rolling master, has joined the club.  I look forward to seeing all the tubes, you roll through the LP!  On another note, I read through the lyr tube rolling thread and found your post about the Brimar CV2492, and I just bought a pair on Ebay, and can't wait to roll them in the LP.  I am super happy with the Amperex 7308, but you know how that goes. . .


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> @ TK16 - Yes!  A true tube rolling master, has joined the club.  I look forward to seeing all the tubes, you roll through the LP!  On another note, I read through the lyr tube rolling thread and found your post about the Brimar CV2492, and I just bought a pair on Ebay, and can't wait to roll them in the LP.  I am super happy with the Amperex 7308, but you know how that goes. . .


They are one of my favorite UK tubes a tier under 6201 Mullard Mitcham and the square getter Mullard Blackburn ECC81. Think you will love them.


----------



## DRHamp

TK16 said:


> Has anybody tried the 6CC41/6N2P in the LP? They are a drop in replacement in my other 6922 variant amps and dac. No adapter needed



Haven't tried them, but my guess is you will have the same problem that I had with 6201/12AT7  - noise likely due to "too high gain".  If the "high" gain theory is correct, the 6N2P with a gain of 100 probably won't work, but I look forward to your results, I know you're gonna try it.  As I've mentioned before, the 12AU7s with gain < 20 work very well and some are exceptional.


----------



## TK16

DRHamp said:


> Haven't tried them, but my guess is you will have the same problem that I had with 6201/12AT7  - noise likely due to "too high gain".  If the "high" gain theory is correct, the 6N2P with a gain of 100 probably won't work, but I look forward to your results, I know you're gonna try it.  As I've mentioned before, the 12AU7s with gain < 20 work very well and some are exceptional.


Seems way too high a gain for the 6N2P/ECC83 (100), the ECC81 series is (60). I'll give my best 6201 a shot in there. But not hopeful.


----------



## DRHamp

TK16 said:


> Seems way too high a gain for the 6N2P/ECC83 (100), the ECC81 series is (60). I'll give my best 6201 a shot in there. But not hopeful



I tried several ECC81 variants including my late 50s Valvo PW 6201 which are near end-game for me in the MJ2, but no joy in the LP.  I really hope they work for you and if so, I'll keep trying others


----------



## TK16

DRHamp said:


> I tried several ECC81 variants including my late 50s Valvo PW 6201 which are near end-game for me in the MJ2, but no joy in the LP.  I really hope they work for you and if so, I'll keep trying others


Those PW are the ones I want to try. Only thing I can do is give them a shot. Not even going to try my E180CC PW Heerlen. That have a 400mA heater current iirc. All these other tubes around 300 mark.


----------



## DRHamp

TK16 said:


> Those PW are the ones I want to try. Only thing I can do is give them a shot.



Anxious to hear how those turn out for you and hope they are awesome.  I would also like to try a pair of those CV2492 as they should be plug and play


----------



## TK16

DRHamp said:


> Anxious to hear how those turn out for you and hope they are awesome.  I would also like to try a pair of those CV2492 as they should be plug and play


CV2492 is just a military designation afaik for E88CC. The military tubes have the 12 o'clock arrow painted on the tubes.


----------



## llcook51

LCMusicLover said:


> Don’t want to start a religious argument, but I believe the stock tubes are quite ‘vin ordinaire’, and do NOT give a good picture...
> This


Although the stock tubes for the LP are "good", when I switched to the Gold Lions I heard a much more revealing and full sound (more true to life highs and lows). My move to the Telefunken was another boost upward. More natural and dynamic... just sounds more "real" to my old ears.


----------



## LCMusicLover

llcook51 said:


> Although the stock tubes for the LP are "good", when I switched to the Gold Lions I heard a much more revealing and full sound (more true to life highs and lows). My move to the Telefunken was another boost upward. More natural and dynamic... just sounds more "real" to my old ears.


Yes, quite agree.

BTW, I don't have any problem with @betula preferring other amps.  I was a little put off by his '_better_' story (mostly sounded like _different_ to me), but so what?

The "It sounds (_bad_)" "It'll sound a lot better with different tubes" "Don't care, if it doesn't sound (_good_) with stock tubes then I'm not interested" exchange seemed a bit inflexible, but again so what?

Bottom line, there's probably not a single piece of equipment _EVER_ discussed here that doesn't have some number of detractors and some ardent fans. Even great hardware gets 'Not worth the money' and 'Not as good as xxx'.

As the saying goes, 'That's why they run horse races' (differences of opinion).


----------



## Inoculator

I have been using Gold Lions for the past month or so (not necessarily a fan, but was hard to go back to stock), but am excited to have some '61 Telefunkens and '74 Holy Grail Reflektors arriving later this week. Perfect timing as I was able to snag some of those socket savers folks recommended on here when they came back in stock last week. Will post some impressions hopefully later next week comparing these 4 sets of tubes.


----------



## Guidostrunk

The CV2492 tubes to get are the ones from the Rochester plant. The code should read KB/AD. The date code is by the arrow.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> CV2492 is just a military designation afaik for E88CC. The military tubes have the 12 o'clock arrow painted on the tubes.


That is correct, and Mullard and Brimar, can both have the CV2492, while they are 2 different tubes.  Let the confusion began. . .


llcook51 said:


> Although the stock tubes for the LP are "good", when I switched to the Gold Lions I heard a much more revealing and full sound (more true to life highs and lows). My move to the Telefunken was another boost upward. More natural and dynamic... just sounds more "real" to my old ears.


Which Telefunken are you using?  E88CC?


----------



## betula

LCMusicLover said:


> Yes, quite agree.
> 
> BTW, I don't have any problem with @betula preferring other amps.  I was a little put off by his '_better_' story (mostly sounded like _different_ to me), but so what?
> 
> ...


Everyone seem to forget my positive comments on the LP and focusing only on my critical ones. I never said it is a bad or bad sounding amp. It is a beautiful, liquid sounding amp with great mid-range performance. To my liking, and compared to the other two amps I was talking about, the LP sounds very polite and thin, which is the most obvious in the not very powerful and agile low-end performance. As everything in this hobby, my comments are also very relative and very subjective. Take it with a grain of salt, since we all have different preferences.


----------



## TK16 (Jan 28, 2019)

Wes S said:


> That is correct, and Mullard and Brimar, can both have the CV2492, while they are 2 different tubes.  Let the confusion began. . ./QUOTE]
> 
> Brimar will have 3x mica design I think and a big halo getter. No acid etching on the Brimar. Mullards usually have a small halo getter and acid etching. KB/AD is what you are looking for in the Rochester plant like Sammy said.
> My LP should be here on Friday.


Seems I hacked the quote.


----------



## llcook51

Inoculator said:


> I have been using Gold Lions for the past month or so (not necessarily a fan, but was hard to go back to stock), but am excited to have some '61 Telefunkens and '74 Holy Grail Reflektors arriving later this week. Perfect timing as I was able to snag some of those socket savers folks recommended on here when they came back in stock last week. Will post some impressions hopefully later next week comparing these 4 sets of tubes.


Looking forward to your impressions.


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## TK16

I searched for an LP tube rolling thread and did not find any. So I created a thread, if anybody is interested.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monoprice-liquid-platinum-tube-rollers.898852/


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## llcook51

TK16 said:


> I searched for an LP tube rolling thread and did not find any. So I created a thread, if anybody is interested.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monoprice-liquid-platinum-tube-rollers.898852/


Thanks. That is a great idea. I have been relying on the Lyr tube rolling threads.


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## cv4109

Folks apologies for the hiccups in the availability of our most popular socket saver. It is back in stock now.

https://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm


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## GlenT

Just received my LP yesterday afternoon and I put it in my chain between my Topping DX7S (in DAC only mode) and my HD600 headphones (balanced cable).  The amp is very clear and bright in the mids and highs, and I was unable to go much above 9 o'clock on the volume and not have it seem too loud for my ears.  I am hoping the brightness dims down just a touch as the default tubes burn in, and I might try using the amp in the DX7S to attenuate the output to the LP for more range of volume on the LP.  However, I'm not sure if using the amp in the DX7S to feed the LP will introduce any unwanted effects to the sound quality.


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## funch (Feb 1, 2019)

I thought I'd jump in with an observation about the XLR vs RCA inputs. My source is an Yggy which has both outputs. I connected both to the LP, and can say I hear no difference between the two as I switch between them during a song. FWIW


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## ChaChaRealSmooth

betula said:


> Everyone seem to forget my positive comments on the LP and focusing only on my critical ones. I never said it is a bad or bad sounding amp. It is a beautiful, liquid sounding amp with great mid-range performance. To my liking, and compared to the other two amps I was talking about, the LP sounds very polite and thin, which is the most obvious in the not very powerful and agile low-end performance. As everything in this hobby, my comments are also very relative and very subjective. Take it with a grain of salt, since we all have different preferences.



It is worth mentioning here that I find my observations somewhat consistent with @betula's, but the difference being that I _love_ the amp (and yes, while I think tube rolling can potentially improve things, the stock tubes are fine). For sure, this isn't the amp for you if you want impact and explosive athleticism. In fact, one might criticize it for being almost _too_ polite.

That being said, if you want something a bit more laid-back without sacrificing extension in either treble or bass, this can be a good fit. My other thoughts on its sound can be found here.

Addressing the tube rolling, if you want to roll tubes I'd _personally _pick a different amp; it just doesn't seem to respond quite as dramatically as some other amps do (and on that note, kudos to Dr. Cavalli for picking the stock tubes). That being said however, I did have a chance to listen to this amp with a few different tubes and will post my impressions on the tube rolling thread.

I find it sad that the fact that this is an exceptional amp seems to be taking a back seat in this thread.


----------



## Wes S

ChaChaRealSmooth said:


> It is worth mentioning here that I find my observations somewhat consistent with @betula's, but the difference being that I _love_ the amp (and yes, while I think tube rolling can potentially improve things, the stock tubes are fine). For sure, this isn't the amp for you if you want impact and explosive athleticism. In fact, one might criticize it for being almost _too_ polite.
> 
> That being said, if you want something a bit more laid-back without sacrificing extension in either treble or bass, this can be a good fit. My other thoughts on its sound can be found here.
> 
> ...


Interesting. . .good info.  I get a totally different feel from this amp.  Could be a synergy thing. . .


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## atomicbob

Think of the Liquid Platinum as a very clear but somewhat malleable lens on upstream components.
I have found the LP enhances ability to differentiate sonic signatures of DACs in the lab.


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## heliosphann

atomicbob said:


> Think of the Liquid Platinum as a very clear but somewhat malleable lens on upstream components.
> I have found the LP enhances ability to differentiate sonic signatures of DACs in the lab.



I found this also. I was using a THX AAA 789 to do some DAC comparisons and I switched to the LP and could still notice the differences just as well.


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## Inoculator (Feb 1, 2019)

So my NOS telefunken and reflektor tubes are caught in USPS hell currently, hopefully will have by this weekend. I did get in my socket savers and have been going back and forth between stock and gold lion.

First I have to say, if you own a LP, go buy these immediately: https://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NOVIB-McMurdo Thank you to the folks that recommended them, and to @cv4109 for supplying such a great product. It is like they were designed for the LP, a perfect fit, once fully inserted they sit perfectly flush with the top of the socket openings. They stay in place well when swapping tubes. I would recommend them even if you are not planning on swapping tubes much.

In regards to the gold lions vs stock...I had not gone back to stock in over a month, and from the first track I knew all the time I spent with the gold lions was a mistake. The stock tubes can be a bit polite by comparison, but they are just so much more lush, musical and natural. The gold lions bring out more detail, and are a bit more dynamic, but at the cost of everything sounding like it is mixed really hot. It is kind of just like everything is turned up to 11. Obviously your mileage may vary, but I don't see myself going back to the gold lions anytime soon. They may still serve a purpose in my lineup for electronic music, as I have had some pretty amazing listening sessions with that genre and the GL/LP combo, but otherwise they will probably be out of the rotation for awhile.

I also want to say that I agree with others that the LP is very chain dependent, I have a very easy time deciphering the differences in DACs/phono when using it.

EDIT: I should add that my testing was done with modded HD 6XX and HD 600


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## TK16

My LP just came in today, burning the amp in right now.


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## zpierce

Speaking of tubes, I'm a complete newbie to tube rolling.  I picked up a pair of the gold lions for the LP as early on a large consensus of positive feedback on them early in this thread.  I also just picked up a pair of Clear's which I'm really digging but they are a bit more lean than my other phones.  What would be a good recommendation as another tube to play with to try to round out the sound a bit more on these and is a bit warmer / beefier than the lions?  

I'm all in for the learning / tuning journey, just looking for the next thing to play with.

Recent posts seem to favor the Amperex tubes.  Would that be a way to go?  And if so, where is a good place to get them?  Through some web searches, I've seen prices ranging from $30 - $230 for a pair.  I've also seen warnings about counterfeits.  

I'd prefer something in the $100 range give or take.  I don't think I'm discerning enough to spend hundreds of dollars yet on tubes and I'd like to spare some budget to try some different things at this stage of my learning.

In general, where do you all recommend picking up tubes that are reasonably priced that have good provenance?


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## TK16

One of my all time favorites. If you want to go cheaper let me know.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-Am...33ffb90e6f:g:VNEAAOSwikBcQ6Rd&redirect=mobile


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## llcook51

TK16 said:


> My LP just came in today, burning the amp in right now.


Congrats. Happy Listening!


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## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> My LP just came in today, burning the amp in right now.



How’s it pair with your LCD-2s?


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## gibby

TK16 said:


> One of my all time favorites. If you want to go cheaper let me know.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-Am...33ffb90e6f:g:VNEAAOSwikBcQ6Rd&redirect=mobile



I’d like to see a cheaper alternative.


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## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> How’s it pair with your LCD-2s?


Really well, had to run certain warm tubes in my dac/MJ2 and equalize for it to decent. LP pairing sounds fantastic. Though 24 hours in LP sounds congested vs the MJ2 with the same cans, dac, tubes, source. Think more burn in will take care of that.


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## TK16

gibby said:


> I’d like to see a cheaper alternative.


Are you up for using socket savers in the LP with 2C51, 5670 adapters on top of the socket savers?


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## betula

TK16 said:


> Really well, had to run certain warm tubes in my dac/MJ2 and equalize for it to decent. LP pairing sounds fantastic. Though 24 hours in LP sounds congested vs the MJ2 with the same cans, dac, tubes, source. Think more burn in will take care of that.


Perhaps. Do let us know if it does. I found that the LP didn't give justice to my LCD2C. Sure the sound was sweet and liquid with engaging mids/vocals, but the bass was lean and lacking punch/slam/authority. I wish someone could prove me otherwise because I did like the subtle and sweet sound of the LP. The presentation was just way too polite, sophisticated and lean for my taste and my music.


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## TK16

betula said:


> Perhaps. Do let us know if it does. I found that the LP didn't give justice to my LCD2C. Sure the sound was sweet and liquid with engaging mids/vocals, but the bass was lean and lacking punch/slam/authority. I wish someone could prove me otherwise because I did like the subtle and sweet sound of the LP. The presentation was just way too polite, sophisticated and lean for my taste and my music.


What tubes did you use for the 2C? They sound fantastic with a pair of 58 6922 Heerlen D getters.


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## betula

TK16 said:


> What tubes did you use for the 2C? They sound fantastic with a pair of 58 6922 Heerlen D getters.


Only stock tubes.


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## gibby

TK16 said:


> Are you up for using socket savers in the LP with 2C51, 5670 adapters on top of the socket savers?



Socket savers are probably desired before rolling.  Not sure about adapters. 

There definently needs to be an LP tube rolling thread.


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## Phantaminum

gibby said:


> Socket savers are probably desired before rolling.  Not sure about adapters.
> 
> There definently needs to be an LP tube rolling thread.



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monoprice-liquid-platinum-tube-rollers.898852/


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## Zachik

gibby said:


> There definently needs to be an LP tube rolling thread.


You mean like this one ?  
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monoprice-liquid-platinum-tube-rollers.898852/


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## SilverEars (Feb 2, 2019)

betula said:


> Everyone seem to forget my positive comments on the LP and focusing only on my critical ones. I never said it is a bad or bad sounding amp. It is a beautiful, liquid sounding amp with great mid-range performance. To my liking, and compared to the other two amps I was talking about, the LP sounds very polite and thin, which is the most obvious in the not very powerful and agile low-end performance. As everything in this hobby, my comments are also very relative and very subjective. Take it with a grain of salt, since we all have different preferences.


I like it much better than the THX 789 (which I found to be a bit bright and not all that technical as hyped up to be), but I'd have to listen a bit more to get a decent idea. Significant difference in price I know (which is obvious).

There is a similar characteristic of CTH, with more refine-ness to the sound with balanced.  Definitely an improvement.

Does Cavalli have a house sound?  It seems to be a bit of warmer low-end?  Which jives with me, but don't like too much of it.  Tonally, this is the kind of sound I find more realistic compared to what people consider 'neutral?'

Balanced certainly is an improvement over single-ended, but I can't be totally certain because I'm using a different single-ended DAC.  I'm feeding Gumby balanced, and it does seem to output good ambient feel to live recordings compared to the single-ended DAC.  It does seem to match well with Gumby balanced.

The way I characterize this amp is, it has slight V-shaped response with headphones.  It sounds to raise bass up a bit with treble articulation (not bright).  Warmth with treble articulation raise (mainly warm). It outputs rich meaty mids.  I can't criticize this amp that much (it seems for the most part a good sounding amp), but only slight improvement it can have is in the low-end, perhaps more articulation there with tiny bit reduction in warmth (that's all). 

And obvious design flaw is lack of a gain reduction switch.  With balanced input or high voltage SE, the headphone output has a bit more gain than people would listen to.  This is a big draw-back and there's got to be a revision for this feature.

So yes, I would say this amp is the point of actual hi-fi sounding equipment past the usual sounding solid states (although tubes are a bit different).


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## SilverEars (Feb 2, 2019)

It generally sounds warm, it seems Cavalli seems to smoothen out the treble in a way.


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## betula

SilverEars said:


> It generally sounds warm, it seems Cavalli tunes to smoothen out the treble in a way.


It is a bit warm but not too much. To me the LP was surprisingly neutral and transparent for a hybrid amp. It has a very subtle, polite, gentle and smooth character but it definitely lets other parts of the audio chain to shine through.


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## SilverEars (Feb 2, 2019)

betula said:


> It is a bit warm but not too much. To me the LP was surprisingly neutral and transparent for a hybrid amp. It has a very subtle, polite, gentle and smooth character but it definitely lets other parts of the audio chain to shine through.


I could imagine this amp to work for headphones of high treble like the HD800 without it being fully tube.  It warms up the lower-mids a bit, which I find to be it's characteristic.


----------



## rockytopwiz

SilverEars said:


> I like it much better than the THX 789 (which I found to be a bit bright and not all that technical as hyped up to be), but I'd have to listen a bit more to get a decent idea. Significant difference in price I know (which is obvious).
> 
> There is a similar characteristic of CTH, with more refine-ness to the sound with balanced.  Definitely an improvement.
> 
> ...


Nice objective write-up.  This is more in line with what I hear, but I don't pick up on the v-shape or treble sparkle.  Compared to my other amps it smooths the treble for me.  Also, I actually think it brings the mids forward which helps my he-1000.  I love the warm and natural tone.


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## SilverEars (Feb 2, 2019)

rockytopwiz said:


> Nice objective write-up.  This is more in line with what I hear, but I don't pick up on the v-shape or treble sparkle.  Compared to my other amps it smooths the treble for me.  Also, I actually think it brings the mids forward which helps my he-1000.  I love the warm and natural tone.


Yes, in another perspective we can look at it as smoothing the treble. With pop music I was noticing sparkle, but it seems it's more recording response related than the amp. It does have meaty mids, and I can imagine it improves tonality of HEK.  Same for HD800 I mentioned above. Both a bit diffuse responses. I find it to put out a bit of a low-end to the mids, warm tilt.


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## betula

rockytopwiz said:


> Nice objective write-up.  This is more in line with what I hear, but I don't pick up on the v-shape or treble sparkle.  Compared to my other amps it smooths the treble for me.  Also, I actually think it brings the mids forward which helps my he-1000.  I love the warm and natural tone.


The LP is definitely a mid-centric, mid-forward amp. Couldn't be further from a V shaped sound. Mids are pronounced, bass and treble are subdued in comparison.
The LP is a phenomenal amp for its asking price. But it definitely doesn't punch above its price range.


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## SilverEars

betula said:


> The LP is definitely a mid-centric, mid-forward amp. Couldn't be further from a V shaped sound. Mids are pronounced, bass and treble are subdued in comparison.
> The LP is a phenomenal amp for its asking price. But it definitely doesn't punch above its price range.


If could add another characteritic is, it's a pleasant sounding amp.  You know how you have easy listening headphones (ie. HD650), this is like an amp version of that characteristic.  I don't think I have ever in the past really looked at an amp that way before, not in a way I start to characterize them.

Bass is not subdued.


----------



## rockytopwiz

betula said:


> The LP is definitely a mid-centric, mid-forward amp. Couldn't be further from a V shaped sound. Mids are pronounced, bass and treble are subdued in comparison.
> The LP is a phenomenal amp for its asking price. But it definitely doesn't punch above its price range.


We get it, you don't like it. 

I disagree with most of what you have said.  I do not find the LP as being polite like you seem to keep going back to.  I also disagree that it does not punch above it's price range.  It smokes my old hdva600.  

We all hear things differently.  If you don't like it move along, there are plenty here that do.  I think you are steering people away from a great amp.


----------



## SilverEars (Feb 2, 2019)

rockytopwiz said:


> We get it, you don't like it.
> 
> I disagree with most of what you have said.  I do not find the LP as being polite like you seem to keep going back to.  I also disagree that it does not punch above it's price range.  It smokes my old hdva600.
> 
> We all hear things differently.  If you don't like it move along, there are plenty here that do.  I think you are steering people away from a great amp.


I don't see what is wrong with polite.  I prefer an easy listening over not with something that comes off a bit offensive with some headphones.  Is it not bright enough, I dunno what is meant with polite?

@betula what is something that is not polite, and why do you like it?  Is polite meant to be something that doesn't jive with you?


----------



## TK16

betula said:


> Only stock tubes.


That might of been the problem, the EH 6922 was the stock tube I got a few years ago with my dac. Wound up giving the pair away for free. Remember them sounding decent, but nothing special. Definitely not bad or terrible sounding. But easily surpassed with better NOS tubes.


----------



## SilverEars

TK16 said:


> That might of been the problem, the EH 6922 was the stock tube I got a few years ago with my dac. Wound up giving the pair away for free. Remember them sounding decent, but nothing special. Definitely not bad or terrible sounding. But easily surpassed with better NOS tubes.


By better what is it doing differently?


----------



## TK16

From what I remember of the EH, they were highly detailed like the Reflektor 6N23P, but on the harsh side with the equipment I had at the time. Not a fan of the 6N23P in general. But a big fan of the Foton/Reflektor 6N3P triple Micas that require an adapter.


----------



## betula (Feb 2, 2019)

SilverEars said:


> I don't see what is wrong with polite.  I prefer an easy listening over not with something that comes off a bit offensive with some headphones.  Is it not bright enough, I dunno what is meant with polite?
> I also prefer a relaxed and laid back listening. By polite regarding the LP I meant it is too thin sounding to me. Great mids, yes, but lacking low-end.
> @betula what is something that is not polite, and why do you like it?  Is polite meant to be something that doesn't jive with you?


By polite I meant thin and subtle. It is delicate for sure, which some buyers might prefer. But for me it is just too thin and lacks body.


SilverEars said:


> If could add another characteritic is, it's a pleasant sounding amp.  You know how you have easy listening headphones (ie. HD650), this is like an amp version of that characteristic.  I don't think I have ever in the past really looked at an amp that way before, not in a way I start to characterize them.
> 
> Bass is not subdued.


It is a very pleasant sounding amp, but bass is subdued compared to other amps. You won't really notice this with classical music, but you will definitely notice it with EDM.



rockytopwiz said:


> We get it, you don't like it.
> 
> I disagree with most of what you have said.  I do not find the LP as being polite like you seem to keep going back to.  I also disagree that it does not punch above it's price range.  It smokes my old hdva600.
> 
> We all hear things differently.  If you don't like it move along, there are plenty here that do.  I think you are steering people away from a great amp.


I am not. It is a great amp. But texture and thickness are not on pair with £1000+ amps. That was all that I was saying.


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## SilverEars (Feb 2, 2019)

betula said:


> By polite I meant thin and subtle. It is delicate for sure, which some buyers might prefer. But for me it is just too thin and lacks body.
> 
> It is a very pleasant sounding amp, but bass is subdued compared to other amps. You won't really notice this with classical music, but you will definitely notice it with EDM.
> 
> ...


Interesting.  I just read your review, and I have a different impression.  I think that is why there's a bit of clash.

Like I've said, I hear it as a meaty amp, with lots of body, and male vocals have more body than the avg amps I've heard.  It's a feat (meaning, it's not common) if LP can do that with HD800/S or HEK because their tuning is diffuse.  My impression is opposite of thin.

Sometimes it is the DAC that is making a difference because I did have an odd encounter with a tube amp in the past. A very incesive sounding DAC sounded find with the tubes, but a general type chip-DACs modules added to amps, it made the amp sound overly warm, BUT this is OVERLY WARM.  In the case of LP, it's on the warm side, but not OVERLY so.


----------



## betula

Don't worry too much folks, I will very soon unsubscribe from this thread. I was just waiting for responses from my previous comments. The LP while it is a brilliant amp, just doesn't match my personal preferences.


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## betula

Don't worry too much folks, I will very soon unsubscribe from this thread. I was just waiting for responses for my previous comments


SilverEars said:


> Interesting.  I just read your review, and I have a different impression.  I think that is why there's a bit of clash.
> 
> Like I've said, I hear it as a meaty amp, with lots of body, and male vocals have more body than the avg amps I've heard.  It's feat if LP can do that with HD800/S or HEK because their tuning is diffuse.  My impression is opposite of thin.
> 
> Sometimes it is the DAC that is making a difference because I did have an odd encounter with a tube amp in the past. A very incesive sounding amp sounded find with the tubes, but a general type chip-DACs modules added to amps, it made the amp sound overly warm, BUT this is OVERLY WARM.  In the case of LP, it's on the warm side, but not OVERLY so.


If you consider the LP as a 'meaty' amp you have never heard a meaty amp dude. The LP is thin sounding, polite and very neutral. Which is pretty much a positive btw.


----------



## SilverEars

betula said:


> If you consider the LP as a 'meaty' amp you have never heard a meaty amp dude. The LP is thin sounding, polite and very neutral. Which is pretty much a positive btw.


I have, and I have heard some lean amps as well. So, I have some perspective on this matter. I've heard people say THX 789 is neutral, and that confuses what I think of neutral.  Maybe I look for natural tonality and it's not neutral in terms of pure electronic signal, who knows, but I'm looking for a preferences for sure.


----------



## Phantaminum

betula said:


> Don't worry too much folks, I will very soon unsubscribe from this thread. I was just waiting for responses from my previous comments. The LP while it is a brilliant amp, just doesn't match my personal preferences.



Don’t take it personal. What your ears may hear we may not hear. If the LP isn’t your cup of tea then we hope find the right one. Your view is as valuable as the next person.



betula said:


> If you consider the LP as a 'meaty' amp you have never heard a meaty amp dude. The LP is thin sounding, polite and very neutral. Which is pretty much a positive btw.



For comparison points, what amp would you consider has more weight? I have a Glenn amp and that delivers note heft. I feel this amp is 90% there.

Is it the low, mids, or high end that doesn’t provide what you’re looking for? Or is it lean from top to bottom?

Thanks!


----------



## betula

Phantaminum said:


> Don’t take it personal. What your ears may hear we may not hear. If the LP isn’t your cup of tea then we hope find the right one. Your view is as valuable as the next person.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It is lean overall. 
But the more obvious it is at the low-end.
Both the Questyle CMA 600i and the iFi Pro iCan have a much thicker and better overall texture. 
The iCan is more dynamic and controlled while the 600i also has a better texture and body.

I don't want to convince anyone. Enjoy people what you have. I was gonna leave this thread a long time ago but people keep asking me about my experience.


----------



## SilverEars

betula said:


> It is lean overall.
> But the more obvious it is at the low-end.
> Both the Questyle CMA 600i and the iFi Pro iCan have a much thicker and better overall texture.
> The iCan is more dynamic and controlled while the 600i also has a better texture and body.
> ...


I did have the 600i in the past, and didn't think it was meaty amp.  Fairly neutral with slight warmth, but I think LP is warmer.  Could it be the Pro iCan is just really warm sounding?  Like I've stated, I've experienced tubes react so sensitively to DAC fed, but I've not really had solid-state react so much to the point that it would get significantly warm due to the DAC.  Never heard the iCan, but I stay away somewhat from iFi due to dislike of the BL.


----------



## betula

SilverEars said:


> I did have the 600i in the past, and didn't think it was meaty amp.  Fairly neutral with slight warmth, but I think LP is warmer.  Could it be the Pro iCan is just really warm sounding?  Like I've stated, I've experienced tubes react so sensitively to DAC fed, but I've not really had solid-state react so much to the point that it would get significantly warm due to the DAC.  Never heard the iCan, but I stay away somewhat from iFi due to dislike of the BL.


Interesting comments.
I was testing the Pro iCan and the CMA600i with the 2Qute and Pro iDSD. My conclusion with all potential pairings was that the LP is not in the same league as the 600i or Pro iDSD/iCAN. Regardless I was pairing the amps with the iDSD or the 2Qute. (iDSD is a far superior DAC).


----------



## SilverEars (Feb 2, 2019)

runeight said:


> Hey gents, I have a thought for all of you and would like to have some feedback from those who have very hot sources and need attenuation.
> 
> I know that some of you are using some kind of passive attenuation. In general, pure passive attenuation can affect the SQ because of the resistance introduced into the input stream turning the source from low impedance output to high(er) impedance output.
> 
> ...


Interesting.  I was looking for information on this because I've been playing with passive pre-amp or attenuators that use an alps pots.

Can you tell me what the attenuator is actually doing to the signal going to the DAC when the impedance is increased?  Is there any real graphical evidence out there of the signal?

What I experience is like a band-pass filter type of response with the potentiometers, it doesn't seem to increase the signal linearly to my ears.


----------



## TK16

I have been contemplating putting in 2 Tube Monger socket savers in each socket as I use adapters for most of my tubes. There is much less wiggle room in the LP vs the MJ2 (much more room for taking out tubes and adapters). Aside from how it would look, is this doable in the long term? Right now just burning in the amp with tubes directly in the socket.


----------



## ls13coco

betula said:


> It is lean overall.
> But the more obvious it is at the low-end.
> Both the Questyle CMA 600i and the iFi Pro iCan have a much thicker and better overall texture.
> The iCan is more dynamic and controlled while the 600i also has a better texture and body.
> ...



Speaking of asking of your experience, do you have any experience with the 789 or Lyr 3? I'm pretty set on the 789 due to its price point, understanding it may be a little bright and light in the lower frequencies.
Reading the Platinum may be low in tower frequencies punch scares me off a bit, in part due to its price point so I am curious how the Lyr 3 may compare. Unfortunately Lyr lacking balanced out so I will have to make a new Ether cable, but it seems to have plenty of SE power.

What about how a R2R dac would compare with the LP I can't help but wonder..


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^ Not Betula, but I had the Lyr 3 and use the Vinshine R2R Reference DAC, the LP is a far more sophisticated sound, fuller body, bigger headstage.this is with the Abyss 1266, ZMF Autuer and Focal Clear, so a broad swath of headphone types.


----------



## LCMusicLover

ls13coco said:


> Speaking of asking of your experience, do you have any experience with the 789 or Lyr 3? I'm pretty set on the 789 due to its price point, understanding it may be a little bright and light in the lower frequencies.
> Reading the Platinum may be low in tower frequencies punch scares me off a bit, in part due to its price point so I am curious how the Lyr 3 may compare. Unfortunately Lyr lacking balanced out so I will have to make a new Ether cable, but it seems to have plenty of SE power.
> 
> What about how a R2R dac would compare with the LP I can't help but wonder..


LP + Denafrips Pontus (R2R) is very good. I’m not hearing thin/polite/light in low frequencies compared to Violectric V280/Bryston BHA-1/MassDrop Liquid Carbon -X. These are probably not Betula’s ‘meaty’ amps. But I’m getting very impactful bass from Auteur, Ether 2 & Utopia from this chain — alll driven balanced. More bass than from any of my SS amps. Not so much from stock tubes, which are all Betula tried.


----------



## kumar402

Going out of topic here but i subscribed to Qobuz beta. I have been listening to Tidal in Audirvana using LP with Mojo  and HD800s. I am using desktop app of Qobuz and haven't logged in using Audirvana. I will do that later today.
I am used to few songs which i listen to regularly in Tidal in MQA format, however Mojo doesn't support MQA so that is done by Audirvana and then it  is sent to Mojo.
When I listen to same songs in Qobuz it sounds better and have more dynamic range and punch. Also the highs are better as well and I am able to turn the volume knob more compared to where I was on LP with Tidal. Anyone had similar experience.


----------



## heliosphann

kumar402 said:


> Going out of topic here but i subscribed to Qobuz beta. I have been listening to Tidal in Audirvana using LP with Mojo  and HD800s. I am using desktop app of Qobuz and haven't logged in using Audirvana. I will do that later today.
> I am used to few songs which i listen to regularly in Tidal in MQA format, however Mojo doesn't support MQA so that is done by Audirvana and then it  is sent to Mojo.
> When I listen to same songs in Qobuz it sounds better and have more dynamic range and punch. Also the highs are better as well and I am able to turn the volume knob more compared to where I was on LP with Tidal. Anyone had similar experience.



I fired up Qobus for the first time today. Sounded good from what I listened to. I'll have to do some direct comparisons to Tidal in the next few days.


----------



## ls13coco

LCMusicLover said:


> LP + Denafrips Pontus (R2R) is very good. I’m not hearing thin/polite/light in low frequencies compared to Violectric V280/Bryston BHA-1/MassDrop Liquid Carbon -X. These are probably not Betula’s ‘meaty’ amps. But I’m getting very impactful bass from Auteur, Ether 2 & Utopia from this chain — alll driven balanced. More bass than from any of my SS amps. Not so much from stock tubes, which are all Betula tried.



This is good info, thanks.
What tubes are you running in the LP?


----------



## betula

ls13coco said:


> Speaking of asking of your experience, do you have any experience with the 789 or Lyr 3? I'm pretty set on the 789 due to its price point, understanding it may be a little bright and light in the lower frequencies.
> Reading the Platinum may be low in tower frequencies punch scares me off a bit, in part due to its price point so I am curious how the Lyr 3 may compare. Unfortunately Lyr lacking balanced out so I will have to make a new Ether cable, but it seems to have plenty of SE power.
> 
> What about how a R2R dac would compare with the LP I can't help but wonder..


Unfortunately I haven't tried any of those amps. I would imagine the 789 is very neutral and the Lyr 3 warmer. The LP is probably the better amp but I don't know how the low-end response compares.


----------



## Wes S (Feb 3, 2019)

Wildcatsare1 said:


> ^ Not Betula, but I had the Lyr 3 and use the Vinshine R2R Reference DAC, the LP is a far more sophisticated sound, fuller body, bigger headstage.this is with the Abyss 1266, ZMF Autuer and Focal Clear, so a broad swath of headphone types.


I concur with this, and i own both Lyr 3 and LP and they both have body and strong bass.  The LP is a step up in quality (texture and tightness), but the Lyr 3 is fun.  They both kick like mules, when called upon, with the right tubes, and i am a basshead at heart.  I am keeping both, if that says anything.


----------



## omniweltall

betula said:


> If you consider the LP as a 'meaty' amp you have never heard a meaty amp dude.


Actually he has, mate. He has tried quite a number of amps. 

This Liquid Platinum is indeed intriguing. Might need to get my hands on it later.


----------



## betula (Feb 3, 2019)

omniweltall said:


> Actually he has, mate. He has tried quite a number of amps.
> 
> This Liquid Platinum is indeed intriguing. Might need to get my hands on it later.


In that case we have got different ideas what a 'meaty sound' means.

I didn't say the LP is lean compared to most amps, but compared to the CMA600i and Pro iCAN it is thin.


----------



## Wes S

betula said:


> In that case we have got different ideas what a 'meaty sound' means.
> 
> I didn't say the LP is lean compared to most amps, but compared to the CMA600i and Pro iCAN it is thin.


I believe we have established these points.  Lets move on. . .


----------



## Wildcatsare1

kumar402 said:


> Going out of topic here but i subscribed to Qobuz beta. I have been listening to Tidal in Audirvana using LP with Mojo  and HD800s. I am using desktop app of Qobuz and haven't logged in using Audirvana. I will do that later today.
> I am used to few songs which i listen to regularly in Tidal in MQA format, however Mojo doesn't support MQA so that is done by Audirvana and then it  is sent to Mojo.
> When I listen to same songs in Qobuz it sounds better and have more dynamic range and punch. Also the highs are better as well and I am able to turn the volume knob more compared to where I was on LP with Tidal. Anyone had similar experience.



I concur, just started my beta with Qobuz as well. I haven’t had it long enough to make an absolute determination. I’ve been spending my time digging through their library.  Listening to a Tony Joe White playlist, an oddity for me, but it brings back memories. My short term impressions match Kumar’s, greater clarity, bass impact, and a more “up front” presentation. I was thinking about selling or trading my Abyss, but now with Qobuz I’m having second thoughts.


----------



## Zachik

Wes S said:


> I concur with this, and i own both Lyr 3 and LP and they both have body and strong bass.  The LP is a step up in quality (texture and tightness), but the Lyr 3 is fun.  They both kick like mules, when called upon, with the right tubes, and i am a basshead at heart.  I am keeping both, if that says anything.


Same here - I also love bass. More than neutral. And I also have (and keep) both Lyr3 and LP. 
Love the bass from both. Nothing lean or lacking for me... and lastly, I also agree that if you want (or can afford) one - the LP is a step up!


----------



## TK16

Couple of pictures of my LP stacked with my other gear. Not high quality pics.


----------



## SilverEars (Feb 3, 2019)

This is funny amp.  I don't like a look of the amp, and it's partially why I didn't think much of it.  Perhaps the look of the amp can have a placebo effect.

Is this a Class A + AB?

After listening to it awhile I realize it is a mid rich amp, it's the reason why the mids sounds a bit thicker than usual. You really get a sense of it with the HD6XX. Also has a bit of a bass impact than typical.  This is the reason why you can pair it well with diffuse tuned headphones like HD800/S or HEK.  It will likely even out the tonality, and particularly with HD800/S, getting more bass impact.


----------



## Zachik

SilverEars said:


> This is funny amp. I don't like a look of the amp, and it's partially why I didn't think much of it. Perhaps the look of the amp can have a placebo effect.


I was not a fan of the looks of the LP, but in real life it looks better (IMHO) than the photos...


----------



## ls13coco

Thank you all for the feedback, it seems I shouldn't take a half step and just go for the LP when the time is right (mostly avoiding that raised price). My bank account on the other hand does not thank any of you 

What tubes might you be using, Wes S?


----------



## LCMusicLover

ls13coco said:


> This is good info, thanks.
> What tubes are you running in the LP?


Siemens NOS E88CC (best) Amperex 6922 PQ (close) Gold Lions 6922 (great w/ Utopia) & stock.


----------



## TK16

LCMusicLover said:


> Siemens NOS E88CC (best) Amperex 6922 PQ (close) Gold Lions 6922 (great w/ Utopia) & stock.


Amperex USA or Heerlen?


Here's a Amperex Hicksville, N.Y. D getter 6922 for $100 If anybody's interested.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-Amperex-6922-Gold-Pin-D-getter-1959-1960-Vacuum-Tubes/223333644183


----------



## llcook51

TK16 said:


> Really well, had to run certain warm tubes in my dac/MJ2 and equalize for it to decent. LP pairing sounds fantastic. Though 24 hours in LP sounds congested vs the MJ2 with the same cans, dac, tubes, source. Think more burn in will take care of that.


It took me about 50 hours for the LP to open up. Between 50-100, it fully revealed its best.


----------



## TK16

llcook51 said:


> It took me about 50 hours for the LP to open up. Between 50-100, it fully revealed its best.


53 hours in and sounding less congested/muddy. Sounds really good with the LCD 2C, far better than the MJ2.


----------



## LCMusicLover

TK16 said:


> Amperex USA or Heerlen?
> 
> 
> Here's a Amperex Hicksville, N.Y. D getter 6922 for $100 If anybody's interested.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-Amperex-6922-Gold-Pin-D-getter-1959-1960-Vacuum-Tubes/223333644183


Hungary


----------



## SoundInTheSea

john57 said:


> One of the things that I agree with the reviewer that the difference of sound quality between the single ended input and the balanced input is very small, smaller than the difference with the digital filters on my DAC.
> 
> Right now I am listening with the Liquid Platinum on my new Massdrop x Focal Elex that I received yesterday with the balanced cable. This is the first time I heard metal dome driver sounded so velvety smooth with no edgy harshness and no signs of any metallic tone to the sound. I used to hate metal dome tweeters especially in a car. The level of detail I heard with the Focal and Liquid Platinum is on another level and not even my Stax headphone can reach. I am still in awe that I spend $250 on a new DAC that makes the Liquid Platinum shine.
> 
> The performance of the Focal headphone is making me to rethink about replacing my Sceptre S6 monitors with something like the Focal Shape 65.



I have the same amp+can combo. May I ask what's your $250 dac?


----------



## john57

My new DAC driving the Liquid Platinum is the SMSL SU-8 with FW 1.3 and HW 1.2

First the cons:

It is so small as compared to my Audio GD, California Audio Lab, Burson Audio and the OPPO HA-1 I used to have. The SMSL SU-8 has a teeny weeny display in which I would need a pair of binoculars to read it across the room. The manual is even worst and I need a magnifier to read it and the graphs. You can not lose the remote because there is a special unlock key, the C key to electronically unlock the DAC for any adjustments. For some reason the Max volume is 38 which is a a bit odd number to use. It does not play any MQA files in which not a big issue for me. There was a problem with early units in that the XLR outputs were distorting a bit at max volume which was fixed with HW 1.2 by increasing the supply voltage to the buffers from 5v to 9v. It only comes in silver currently.

Second the pros:

As it turns out the SMSL SU-8 is one of the clearest and transparent sounding DAC I ever heard. I was not excepting that much of a change. I was quite surprised. I find that the remote turn out to be useful rather than a gimmick. I was watching a TV show on Netflix called Pine Gap in which two actors, a women and a man auguring on who is going to keep the cat. By using the remote I can change the seven digital filters on the ESS chip in real time and plainly hear the characters of the actor voices change. Some of the filters will change the male voice more and some others will change the female voice more. It was kind of surprising that two actors talking on a TV series will show the differences of the ESS 2ES9038Q2M digital filters on the SMSL SU-8. All my other four active DAC’s are using the ES9018 chip and this SMSL SU-8 is at end game level as far DAC’s is concerned. I can hear the differences even with my Sceptre S6 monitors. I brought mine at Amazon at $250 just because I wanted the HW level to be at 1.2 otherwise it would be easier to send it back. I use the balanced outs of the SMSL SU-8 to drive the Liquid Platinum amp just fine. By the way there is also 10 sound color options like three tubes and the 3 crystal options which would help a bit when actors are speaking in muddle English. There are rich setting also. Someone was telling me that the color options is really in the ES9038Q2M chip in which I can not confirm.I went back to my old DAC briefly and it sounded muffled as compared to the  SMSL SU-8


----------



## Wes S (Feb 4, 2019)

ls13coco said:


> Thank you all for the feedback, it seems I shouldn't take a half step and just go for the LP when the time is right (mostly avoiding that raised price). My bank account on the other hand does not thank any of you
> 
> What tubes might you be using, Wes S?


Amperex 7308 USN-CEP

Look for code - VR5


----------



## kumar402 (Feb 5, 2019)

how easy is it to take  those tube monger socket savers out of LP. I understand they make it easier to tube roll but once installed can we take it out easily as well. Does the upper surface of the saver goes above the top cover of LP or is it below the cover of LP. If it is below the top cover of LP wouldn't it be difficult to take it out.


----------



## kumar402

It seems liquid platinum is out of stock till 16th April. One of my collegue wanted to get it but it's not available till April.


----------



## TK16

Gain is way too high with my LP and Gumby (very little play on the amp volume control.  Any of you guys using something in the chain to compensate balanced set up?

On my tube dac, I have a volume control on it to  add some real movement on LP volume control.


----------



## skyline315

TK16 said:


> Gain is way too high with my LP and Gumby (very little play on the amp volume control.  Any of you guys using something in the chain to compensate balanced set up?
> 
> On my tube dac, I have a volume control on it to  add some real movement on LP volume control.


My Gumby/LP is fine (balanced) with the 650s and HE-500s.  I'm somewhere between 9-12 on the dial.

YMMV based on tubes, headphones, and listening preferences.

I'm not using volume attenuation, but a lot of people are. There are a lot of options out there.


----------



## TK16

skyline315 said:


> My Gumby/LP is fine (balanced) with the 650s and HE-500s.  I'm somewhere between 9-12 on the dial.
> 
> YMMV based on tubes, headphones, and listening preferences.
> 
> I'm not using volume attenuation, but a lot of people are. There are a lot of options out there.


You mean something like this? Says powered speakers though.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MXC9HH...olid=3MNN3N5N29NAW&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it


----------



## DRHamp (Feb 5, 2019)

I've used this for balanced input - doesn't seem to affect SQ at least to my ears
https://www.amazon.com/TC-Electroni...&sr=8-1&keywords=tc+electronic+volume+control

Also used this for SE input 
https://luminousaudio.com/collectio...p/products/axiom-ii-passive-preamp-walker-mod


----------



## TK16

DRHamp said:


> I've used this for balanced input - doesn't seem to affect SQ at least to my ears
> https://www.amazon.com/TC-Electroni...&sr=8-1&keywords=tc+electronic+volume+control
> 
> Also used this for SE input
> https://luminousaudio.com/collectio...p/products/axiom-ii-passive-preamp-walker-mod


Really missing the low gain option of the MJ2 for the easy to drive cans with the Gumby. First link comes with the balanced cables?


----------



## DRHamp

TK16 said:


> Really missing the low gain option of the MJ2 for the easy to drive cans with the Gumby. First link comes with the balanced cables?


I agree on lack of a gain switch.  Yes the first one includes balanced cables.


----------



## TK16

DRHamp said:


> I agree on lack of a gain switch.  Yes the first one includes balanced cables.


First link is on my list, waiting for some different options to choose from. BTW I found a couple pair of 6201 that did not exhibit any noise. 1 was the upscale audio Mullards. Most had various degree of noise and some had channel imbalances without noise. Though the channel imbalances tubes are matched. 1 pair of 51 Copenhagen ECC81 was fine but the protection kicked in mid song.


----------



## atomicbob

Here is a link to measurements I made comparing two passive attenuators of which I used with Liquid Platinum (and other amps):

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/gol...tor-comparison-technical-measurements.899382/


----------



## Wes S

atomicbob said:


> Here is a link to measurements I made comparing two passive attenuators of which I used with Liquid Platinum (and other amps):
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/gol...tor-comparison-technical-measurements.899382/


Man!  That is awesome stuff.  Thanks!


----------



## TK16

atomicbob said:


> Here is a link to measurements I made comparing two passive attenuators of which I used with Liquid Platinum (and other amps):
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/gol...tor-comparison-technical-measurements.899382/


Thanks for this very in-depth to say the least. Went with the Nobsound to start me off.


----------



## Wes S

atomicbob said:


> Here is a link to measurements I made comparing two passive attenuators of which I used with Liquid Platinum (and other amps):
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/gol...tor-comparison-technical-measurements.899382/


Is the Schiit Sys, comparable to the Nobsound?


----------



## rockytopwiz

Aw what the hell!?  They upped the price on my noobsound I had on my watchlist for months now.  Thanks fiends...


----------



## atomicbob

Wes S said:


> Is the Schiit Sys, comparable to the Nobsound?


The big issue with NS-05P is use of a 50K pot instead of 10K. High end roll off issues would be eliminated if Nobsound changed the Alps to a 10K pot.
Schiit Sys uses a 10K pot. 

All passive attenuator pots have imbalance issues at high attenuation. Stepped attenuators are the way to eliminate this issue.


----------



## Wes S (Feb 5, 2019)

atomicbob said:


> The big issue with NS-05P is use of a 50K pot instead of 10K. High end roll off issues would be eliminated if Nobsound changed the Alps to a 10K pot.
> Schiit Sys uses a 10K pot.
> 
> All passive attenuator pots have imbalance issues at high attenuation. Stepped attenuators are the way to eliminate this issue.


So the Sys is better, than the Nobsound?  If i already own the Sys, is it worth it to get the Nobsound, or is the Sys just as good?


----------



## atomicbob

Schiit Sys will measure better than NS-05P when attenuation is between 1 and 20 dB. 

NS-05P has advantages of balanced inputs and outputs. If intended for balanced use with 20dB or greater attenuation, then NS-05P has advantages.

Whether all this means either will sound better than the other is highly dependent on use model and also subjective.


----------



## LCMusicLover

TK16 said:


> Gain is way too high with my LP and Gumby (very little play on the amp volume control.  Any of you guys using something in the chain to compensate balanced set up?
> 
> On my tube dac, I have a volume control on it to  add some real movement on LP volume control.


Lots of chatter about this here and _over there_.  I'm currently using an Emotiva XSP-1, but shopping for a passive preamp.


skyline315 said:


> My Gumby/LP is fine (balanced) with the 650s ... I'm somewhere between 9-12 on the dial.


Wow! Above 10, I'd be putting myself in the hospital on my HD-6xx.  Although your Gumby has a bit less power than my Pontus (4Vrms vs 4.4Vrms). No way I could get near 12:00 on any of my cans.


----------



## Wes S

atomicbob said:


> Schiit Sys will measure better than NS-05P when attenuation is between 1 and 20 dB.
> 
> NS-05P has advantages of balanced inputs and outputs. If intended for balanced use with 20dB or greater attenuation, then NS-05P has advantages.
> 
> Whether all this means either will sound better than the other is highly dependent on use model and also subjective.


Awesome!  Thanks for this info.


----------



## kumar402

I guess SYS measurement shows no imbalance after 3 PM dial. However anything after 12 is not an issue. Only if we go below 12 there may be imbalance issue with SYS


----------



## SilverEars

After swapping out SE and Balanced input on the LP, I do notice that Balanced outputs more clarity with what sounds to be more treble peak compared to SE.


----------



## greenkiwi

DRHamp said:


> I agree on lack of a gain switch.  Yes the first one includes balanced cables.



If there were ever a _*rev b* _of the LP, I think a gain switch would be an awesome addition.


----------



## LCMusicLover

greenkiwi said:


> If there were ever a _*rev b* _of the LP, I think a gain switch would be an awesome addition.


Adjustable gain was in the original description of the amp when first announced, but obviously didn’t make the final product.


----------



## heliosphann

LCMusicLover said:


> Adjustable gain was in the original description of the amp when first announced, but obviously didn’t make the final product.





greenkiwi said:


> If there were ever a _*rev b* _of the LP, I think a gain switch would be an awesome addition.



Alex has stated a few reasons for only having 5x gain. One of which there wasn't any extra room to fit everything in that small of a form factor, so I doubt you'll see a mere revision with a gain switch.


----------



## omniweltall

SilverEars said:


> After swapping out SE and Balanced input on the LP, I do notice that Balanced outputs more clarity with what sounds to be more treble peak compared to SE.


Treble peak doesnt sound good at all. SE is better then?


----------



## SilverEars (Feb 7, 2019)

omniweltall said:


> Treble peak doesnt sound good at all. SE is better then?


Balanced is definately better with better clarity.  I mean treble sound more expressed in peakiness with this clarity.


----------



## Wes S

SilverEars said:


> Balanced is definately better with better clarity.  I mean treble sound more expressed in peakiness with this clarity.


Good to know. . .


----------



## kumar402

how much is the input impedance of LP?
I looked into the spec sheet but didn't find it, good to know for pairing it with preamp since it lacks gain switch.


----------



## DRHamp

kumar402 said:


> how much is the input impedance of LP?
> I looked into the spec sheet but didn't find it, good to know for pairing it with preamp since it lacks gain switch.



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...-by-alex-cavalli.876406/page-41#post-14609926


----------



## Wildcatsare1

I’d love it if Monoprice/Dr. Cavalli, would create and sell a less expensive version of the Lau, hint and please.


----------



## Zachik

Wildcatsare1 said:


> I’d love it if Monoprice/Dr. Cavalli, would create and sell a less expensive version of the Lau, hint and please.


Or maybe Massdrop would... I think their CTH and LCX are great (for their respective price points) - now it is time for higher end one!  LGX?  LauX? XLau? hmmmm.......


----------



## runeight

Zachik said:


> Or maybe Massdrop would... I think their CTH and LCX are great (for their respective price points) - now it is time for higher end one!  LGX?  LauX? XLau? hmmmm.......



The future is still being written. Hang in...............


----------



## atomicbob

Wildcatsare1 said:


> I’d love it if Monoprice/Dr. Cavalli, would create and sell a less expensive version of the Lau, hint and please.





runeight said:


> The future is still being written. Hang in...............


Until that time I suggest everyone consider a new paradigm with Liquid Platinum. The LP has exceptionally low distortion and square wave response is nearly that of the Liquid Crimson; almost perfect. This great clarity translates to hearing and differentiating source components at a level few have ever experienced. Think about that for a bit. You are hearing your source clearly. Deficiencies heard are likely deficiencies of the source. Other source+amp system synergies may offer complimentary performance to smooth over deficiencies of both source+amp. LP is somewhat malleable with different tubes, but remains brutally honest presenting source sonic signatures.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

atomicbob said:


> Until that time I suggest everyone consider a new paradigm with Liquid Platinum. The LP has exceptionally low distortion and square wave response is nearly that of the Liquid Crimson; almost perfect. This great clarity translates to hearing and differentiating source components at a level few have ever experienced. Think about that for a bit. You are hearing your source clearly. Deficiencies heard are likely deficiencies of the source. Other source+amp system synergies may offer complimentary performance to smooth over deficiencies of both source+amp. LP is somewhat malleable with different tubes, but remains brutally honest presenting source sonic signatures.



No complaints from me, I love my LP, just sold my Violectric, now looking for a tube amp to compliment this amp.


----------



## Wes S (Feb 7, 2019)

Wildcatsare1 said:


> No complaints from me, I love my LP, just sold my Violectric, now looking for a tube amp to compliment this amp.


I am doing the same thing.  Looking for a OTL.  The LP and a good OTL and i am done.


----------



## Rattle

I love my LP, saving up for better dac and cans. Probably headphones first. No complaints with my setup. LIstening to great recordings has never been better for me. Amazing value I could never afford an amp that sounded like this, truthfully even the 6 bills I was lucky enough to get it for was stretching the budget !


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Wes S said:


> I am doing the same thing.  Looking for a OTL.  The LP and a good OTL and i am done.



Exactly what I’m looking forward to finding an OTL or SET amp as well.


----------



## Zachik

runeight said:


> The future is still being written. Hang in...............


Alex, you're such a tease!


----------



## SoundInTheSea

Is there anybody plays HE1000 V2 with LP? I wonder LP is powerful enough to get the best of the can. HE1000 V2 is told to do its best with a very powerful amp. 35 ohm impedance and 90db sensitivity. Some use a speaker amp to play the can.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

SoundInTheSea said:


> Is there anybody plays HE1000 V2 with LP? I wonder LP is powerful enough to get the best of the can. HE1000 V2 is told to do its best with a very powerful amp. 35 ohm impedance and 90db sensitivity. Some use a speaker amp to play the can.



LP is plenty powerful enough for the HE1000V2.

I have the Arya, which had the same driver specs. No issues whatsoever.

Also have the HE1000SE now, which is slightly more sensitive, the dynamics are good with both headphones.


----------



## dBel84

Glad to see the LP getting the love it deserves..dB


----------



## LCMusicLover

SoundInTheSea said:


> Is there anybody plays HE1000 V2 with LP? I wonder LP is powerful enough to get the best of the can. HE1000 V2 is told to do its best with a very powerful amp. 35 ohm impedance and 90db sensitivity. Some use a speaker amp to play the can.


Yes, I have HEKv2 & LP.  No power shortage -- I couldn't possibly listen past about 11:00 on the dial.  Mostly 8:30 - 10ish, depending on the track.

I'm referring to listening to my Pontus ==> LP ==> HEKv2, all balanced connections.


----------



## SoundInTheSea

Thanks for sharing your photos. How's your impression for the LP + HE1000 v2 combo?
Is the can worth the epic $3000 price tag? I own focal elex, it's wonderful can but not super impressive. Wondering if it's worth to upgrade to HE1000 v2.



UsoppNoKami said:


> LP is plenty powerful enough for the HE1000V2.
> 
> I have the Arya, which had the same driver specs. No issues whatsoever.
> 
> Also have the HE1000SE now, which is slightly more sensitive, the dynamics are good with both headphones.


----------



## SoundInTheSea

How's your impression for the LP + HE1000 v2 combo?
Is the can worth the epic $3000 price tag? I own focal elex, it's wonderful can but not super impressive. Wondering if it's worth to upgrade to HE1000 v2.



LCMusicLover said:


> Yes, I have HEKv2 & LP.  No power shortage -- I couldn't possibly listen past about 11:00 on the dial.  Mostly 8:30 - 10ish, depending on the track.
> 
> I'm referring to listening to my Pontus ==> LP ==> HEKv2, all balanced connections.


----------



## Slim1970

UsoppNoKami said:


> LP is plenty powerful enough for the HE1000V2.
> 
> I have the Arya, which had the same driver specs. No issues whatsoever.
> 
> Also have the HE1000SE now, which is slightly more sensitive, the dynamics are good with both headphones.


With the LP in your system can you hear the differences in sound signature between the Arya and HE1000se's? Are the two more alike than different when driven by the LP?


----------



## LCMusicLover

SoundInTheSea said:


> How's your impression for the LP + HE1000 v2 combo?
> Is the can worth the epic $3000 price tag? I own focal elex, it's wonderful can but not super impressive. Wondering if it's worth to upgrade to HE1000 v2.


I actually haven't spent that much time with HEKv2/LP combo.  Loving the Utopia/LP & Ether 2/LP combos (and Auteur w/ any amp) so much that I just haven't gotten there yet. I'll give it a little time this weekend and let you know.


----------



## SilverEars (Feb 8, 2019)

I realized after a bit of listening, the sound stage is pretty avg sized, not large with this amp as there are larger.

I think the mid-forwardness contributes to this as the HD800S for example has lower than neutral mids, which I believe contributes to sound stage perception.  Similarly HEK is lean in the mids as well, and creates perception of spaciousness.

LP lower-mids sounds a bit emphasized, pushing that warmth.

I definately like what it does to upper-mids of the HD800S.  Sounds more energy there with more definition and textures.  Because HD800S can come off a bit thin sounding with not much body if upper-mids get fainter sounding.


----------



## Wes S (Feb 8, 2019)

I agree


SilverEars said:


> I realized after a bit of listening, the sound stage is pretty avg sized, not large with this amp as there are larger.
> 
> I think the mid-forwardness contributes to this as the HD800S for example has lower than neutral mids, which I believe contributes to sound stage perception.  Similarly HEK is lean in the mids as well, and creates perception of spaciousness.
> 
> ...


I agree the stage is not the widest, but just right.  With the Amperex 7308, i am getting depth, front to back and width wider, but not much.  It feels like i am sitting inside the music ( center stage ), with a good 3d like feel.   I am really enjoying this.

I listened with my Lyr 3 with Sylvania 1952 Bad Boy, this morning,  for the first time since getting the LP, and it puts everything a bit further away and more relaxed.  It is nice to have both.


----------



## UsoppNoKami (Feb 8, 2019)

SoundInTheSea said:


> Thanks for sharing your photos. How's your impression for the LP + HE1000 v2 combo?
> Is the can worth the epic $3000 price tag? I own focal elex, it's wonderful can but not super impressive. Wondering if it's worth to upgrade to HE1000 v2.



I have the Elex as well, don't have the HE1000V2 but I am very familiar with it having spent many hours with one. For the cost of the upgrade to HE1Kv2 vs what it brings to the table, I would actually steer you to consider the Arya. It isn't 100% the same as the HE1Kv2, but at half the cost it's a winner like the Elex vs Clear. And to be clear, Arya > Elex for sure, tho I still do love the Elex.

But if you are OK with the budget for a HE1000V2, then don't stop there - the extra for the HE1000SE is worth it. The HE1000SE is a real improvement over its predecessor and deserves its TOTL tag.

Impressions with LP: 
The LP on its own drives the HE1000SE easily. Great dynamics, great sound. But for my tastes, a bit too clean. I've been enjoying the HE1000SE on my Cayin HA-1A mk2 amp more. My tube roll there - 12au7 Telefunkens, EL84 amperex bugle boy treble clef, and 12DT5 RCA rectifier. Richer sound than what I can get out of the LP, so that's what I have been listening to mainly. Having said that, the LP as an amp is still a great pairing with the HE1k series.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Slim1970 said:


> With the LP in your system can you hear the differences in sound signature between the Arya and HE1000se's? Are the two more alike than different when driven by the LP?



Arya is closer to the HE1000V2 sound. It has a bit more bass than the V2, a touch less clarity but probably won't notice it without A/B. The V2 lacks a bit of kick after listening to the Arya first, but has that touch more clarity. 

The HE1000SE does everything better - great bass, transparency, balanced sound from lows to highs.


----------



## jb77

Question 

I have two different DACs connected first via XLR is the SMSL SU-8 v2 and second is the Oppo BDP 105D via RCA, question about the LP concerning the input selector button, I was playing music through the Oppo via RCA input on the LP and when the input selector button was on the XLR balanced input I could hear the music playing via the RCA input if I turned the volume up. Obviously once I selected the rca input I would hear the music as normal but I am curious as to why I could hear the music when the input selector was on balanced if the volume was turned up and RCA input is what was playing, is this normal or is something wrong with my Liquid Platinum? My headphones were connected via the XLR balanced output.



Thank you 

Jeremy


----------



## MikeW

Looks like no stock of this until mid april now. I wonder if the new batch will have better reliability. Still on the fence with this one, I did pick up an RME ADI-2 Dac that im really enjoying now, so at least the gain problem would be easy to fix.


----------



## kumar402

MikeW said:


> Looks like no stock of this until mid april now. I wonder if the new batch will have better reliability. Still on the fence with this one, I did pick up an RME ADI-2 Dac that im really enjoying now, so at least the gain problem would be easy to fix.


It says out of stock in Monoprice but there are few left in Amazon if you are interested.


----------



## Wes S

I am well over the 100 hour mark and I am still getting blown away, by this amp.  Things have really opened up and 2 things keep coming to mind, transient response and tonality.  

Schiit Modi Multibit - Liquid Platinum - Amperex 7308 (1963) - ZMF Ori - Excellent transient response and tonality (lifelike sound), with 3 d effect.  The mids are to die for, and nothing else is lacking!


----------



## omniweltall

Wes S said:


> Schiit Modi Multibit - Liquid Platinum - Amperex 7308 (1963) - ZMF Ori - Excellent transient response and tonality (lifelike sound), with 3 d effect.  The mids are to die for, and nothing else is lacking!


That looks like a killer combo. Mimby-LP-ZMF Ori.


----------



## Wes S

omniweltall said:


> That looks like a killer combo. Mimby-LP-ZMF Ori.


It is!  There is this euphonic texture in the midrange, that allows me to feel the notes and it throws out this amazing sound stage.  Fun stuff!  I am going to bed late and waking up early, and just can't get enough.


----------



## omniweltall

Enjoy mate. It is good to see someone having a blast. 

This hobby is getting me into trouble as I tend to sleep too late as well.


----------



## llcook51

Wes S said:


> It is!  There is this euphonic texture in the midrange, that allows me to feel the notes and it throws out this amazing sound stage.  Fun stuff!  I am going to bed late and waking up early, and just can't get enough.


I agee completely. Sleep is over-rated anyway. I need more ears.


----------



## wazzupi

UsoppNoKami said:


> LP is plenty powerful enough for the HE1000V2.
> 
> I have the Arya, which had the same driver specs. No issues whatsoever.
> 
> Also have the HE1000SE now, which is slightly more sensitive, the dynamics are good with both headphones.


What's your favorite amp with the arya ?


----------



## MikeW

Need a better Dac for such a great amp. Modi multi is holding you back. I’ve been tempted to pull the trigger on this one, but have a hard time choosing this or LYR 3. LYR 3 is a lot cheaper, with better features, form factor, less tubes, better warranty, and a better track record of reliability thus far, with the exception of a blown pair of phones or two.


----------



## Wes S (Feb 12, 2019)

MikeW said:


> Need a better Dac for such a great amp. Modi multi is holding you back. I’ve been tempted to pull the trigger on this one, but have a hard time choosing this or LYR 3. LYR 3 is a lot cheaper, with better features, form factor, less tubes, better warranty, and a better track record of reliability thus far, with the exception of a blown pair of phones or two.


This is true and the next upgrade.  One piece of gear at a time, for this not rich guy, but for now i am really enjoying things.  I will appreciate a better dac, when the time comes.  Cant rain on my parade


----------



## LCMusicLover

kumar402 said:


> Wow that was fast


Not surprising -- over $100 discount over price @ Monoprice where they're out-of-stock until mid-April.  And almost $200 off price on Amazon where there are still a few in stock.


----------



## MikeW (Feb 12, 2019)

Yeah I tried to snag it myself, but just missed it. There's a few WTB adds in the for sale forum, like LYR3, these don't last more then an hour or two on the used market. Does anyone know if the Monoprice warranty is transferable? That was a concern when purchasing this particular item used. Judging by the comments in this thread, there's a good chance you may need to use that warranty. There was 2 THX 789's and a LP for sale today, and I missed all 3 lol. Though im not so sure I want the THX789 in retrospect. A bit too "mid-fi"... been there done that. Interestingly one of the THX789's that went for sale today, was someone selling because they acquired the Liquid Platinum. Lotta FOTM and pent up hype/demand for 789... once Massdrop if done dropping 20k of them into the market, the value will tank faster then the HD650. Year from now there will be 10 of them in the for sale forum for 200$ ea


----------



## TK16

My LP has been solid so far 300 hours on continuous burning in tubes since I got it.


----------



## kumar402

MikeW said:


> Yeah I tried to snag it myself, but just missed it. There's a few WTB adds in the for sale forum, like LYR3, these don't last more then an hour or two on the used market. Does anyone know if the Monoprice warranty is transferable? That was a concern when purchasing this particular item used. Judging by the comments in this thread, there's a good chance you may need to use that warranty. There was 2 THX 789's and a LP for sale today, and I missed all 3 lol. Though im not so sure I want the THX789 in retrospect. A bit too "mid-fi"... been there done that. Interestingly one of the THX789's that went for sale today, was someone selling because they acquired the Liquid Platinum. Lotta FOTM and pent up hype/demand for 789... once Massdrop if done dropping 20k of them into the market, the value will tank faster then the HD650. Year from now there will be 10 of them in the for sale forum for 200$ ea


I did join the last drop for 789 with estimated ship date as May. I just want to see what the fuss is all about and I'm quite sure I will be able to sell them off if needed.


----------



## kumar402

LCMusicLover said:


> Not surprising -- over $100 discount over price @ Monoprice where they're out-of-stock until mid-April.  And almost $200 off price on Amazon where there are still a few in stock.


True that,  gone are the days when they were available on ebay for $699 with ebay giving 15% off on every item.


----------



## MikeW (Feb 12, 2019)

Probably at heavy profit on ebay if you please. Though it's a rather redundant device with a good Hybrid. I could see owning a Hybrid and Tube amp perhaps, but a hybrid, tube, and solid state. Not so much. I find the head-amp of the RME ADI-2 to be extremely clean and detailed and responds very well to EQ, it's a bit flat and lifeless without EQ, but has plenty of power and slam for the HD650. While I'd imagine the 789 slightly better, considering how close the Head-Amp is to my Jotunheim, it can't be much better. At least for 300 OHM or less loads. I am considering either a hybrid or OTL tube amp at this point, also considering forgoing an amp altogether, and buying a nice 800-1200$ pair of IEM's to pair with the ADI's IEM amp. Im a bit tired of purchasing "Mid-Fi" gear at this point, I could "upgrade" to a better transducer (expensive IEM) and let the ADI drive it, as it's quite capable in that regard.... If I spend 800-1500$ for a "not midfi" head-amp, to pair with my "not midfi" RME-ADI-2, that will leave no budget for a good while, for a "Not mid-fi" transducer.. currently have HD650, which, at one time was rather high end, back in 2005... it's firmly "Mid-fi" these days, and it's value, totally wreckt by massdrop. Alas the dilema... ADI-2 + High end IEM, or ADI 2 + High end AMP, and mid-fi transducers.


----------



## omniweltall

jinxy245 said:


> ...Aaaaaaand it's sold.


Do you have one, jinxy? How is it?


----------



## jinxy245

omniweltall said:


> Do you have one, jinxy? How is it?


No sir,  not as of yet.

Next step is upgrading to Gumby  then I'll evaluate my amp situation.


----------



## Wes S

jinxy245 said:


> No sir,  not as of yet.
> 
> Next step is upgrading to Gumby  then I'll evaluate my amp situation.


Gumby is my next purchase and then I will be at my endgame.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Gumby is my next purchase and then I will be at my endgame.


Highly recommend this DAC, should be a huge upgrade for you, I have not heard better yet, but it is the first dac I have listened to that was to me as important or nearly as important as an amp choice. You will get quite a bit more power from the amp running full balanced.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Highly recommend this DAC, should be a huge upgrade for you, I have not heard better yet, but it is the first dac I have listened to that was to me as important or nearly as important as an amp choice. You will get quite a bit more power from the amp running full balanced.


Good to know!  I ultimately bought this amp to pair with my being built ZMF Aeolus, and the Gumby.  So 2 pieces of the pie, are paid for, and the last is being saved up for. . .


----------



## JamesCanada

MikeW said:


> Probably at heavy profit on ebay if you please. Though it's a rather redundant device with a good Hybrid. I could see owning a Hybrid and Tube amp perhaps, but a hybrid, tube, and solid state. Not so much. I find the head-amp of the RME ADI-2 to be extremely clean and detailed and responds very well to EQ, it's a bit flat and lifeless without EQ, but has plenty of power and slam for the HD650. While I'd imagine the 789 slightly better, considering how close the Head-Amp is to my Jotunheim, it can't be much better. At least for 300 OHM or less loads. I am considering either a hybrid or OTL tube amp at this point, also considering forgoing an amp altogether, and buying a nice 800-1200$ pair of IEM's to pair with the ADI's IEM amp. Im a bit tired of purchasing "Mid-Fi" gear at this point, I could "upgrade" to a better transducer (expensive IEM) and let the ADI drive it, as it's quite capable in that regard.... If I spend 800-1500$ for a "not midfi" head-amp, to pair with my "not midfi" RME-ADI-2, that will leave no budget for a good while, for a "Not mid-fi" transducer.. currently have HD650, which, at one time was rather high end, back in 2005... it's firmly "Mid-fi" these days, and it's value, totally wreckt by massdrop. Alas the dilema... ADI-2 + High end IEM, or ADI 2 + High end AMP, and mid-fi transducers.



I've been pairing the RME ADI-2 DAC with my LP and the combo is fantastic.
My HD 800S has never sounded so lively.
The EQ is just the cherry on top.


----------



## omniweltall

jinxy245 said:


> No sir,  not as of yet.
> 
> Next step is upgrading to Gumby  then I'll evaluate my amp situation.


That's a smart move. 

Same here. Gumby next.


----------



## kumar402

JamesCanada said:


> I've been pairing the RME ADI-2 DAC with my LP and the combo is fantastic.
> My HD 800S has never sounded so lively.
> The EQ is just the cherry on top.


800s does sound sweeter with properly applied EQ in my opinion for recent music which are not great recordings.


----------



## llcook51

kumar402 said:


> 800s does sound sweeter with properly applied EQ in my opinion for recent music which are not great recordings.


The LP is sublime with the 800-S. Crystal clear and natural.


----------



## kumar402

Since we are talking about DACs anyone paired LP with any of  MHDT Labs DAC?


----------



## Pharmaboy

Wes S said:


> Gumby is my next purchase and then I will be at my endgame.





jinxy245 said:


> No sir,  not as of yet.
> 
> Next step is upgrading to Gumby  then I'll evaluate my amp situation.



Why would anybody want to upgrade Gumby?


----------



## omniweltall

Pharmaboy said:


> Why would anybody want to upgrade Gumby?
> 
> ​


Coz it is green and makes me laugh.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Pharmaboy said:


> Why would anybody want to upgrade Gumby?
> 
> ​



Agreed, personally I prefer Pokey...


----------



## jasonho

Currently owned a CTH pairing with elex and kennerton Odin.  

I wonder if there are any ex-cth owners who upgraded to LP , please share your upgrade thoughts.   Thanks


----------



## Wildcatsare1

jasonho said:


> Currently owned a CTH pairing with elex and kennerton Odin.
> 
> I wonder if there are any ex-cth owners who upgraded to LP , please share your upgrade thoughts.   Thanks



I sold my CTH when I received the Lyr 3, which I thought was superior in clarity, dynamics, and pace. The CTH had better tone and headstage, when I bought the LP, the Lyr 3 was displaced. The LP has the dynamics and pace, plus the rich tone and headstage.


----------



## lukeslens

I'm curious what DACs people here are using with their Liquid Platinum? Planning on getting an LP and looking at the RME ADI-2 to pair with it, but curious what others are using?


----------



## TK16

Gumby and Lite Dac 68 tube dac.


----------



## sahmen

Metrum Acoustics Onyx NOS Dac


----------



## Odin412

lukeslens said:


> I'm curious what DACs people here are using with their Liquid Platinum? Planning on getting an LP and looking at the RME ADI-2 to pair with it, but curious what others are using?



Schiit Bifrost Multibit.


----------



## BearlyPizza

Audiogd R8


----------



## atomicbob

Gungnir MB A2 and Lavry DA11 with Goldpoint SA2X switching between the two and performing input attenuation to Liquid Platinum.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Vinshine Reference R2R


----------



## Schwibbles

lukeslens said:


> I'm curious what DACs people here are using with their Liquid Platinum? Planning on getting an LP and looking at the RME ADI-2 to pair with it, but curious what others are using?


A Soekris dac1541 and SMSL VMV D1; both sound great with it.


----------



## bgbkt

lukeslens said:


> I'm curious what DACs people here are using with their Liquid Platinum? Planning on getting an LP and looking at the RME ADI-2 to pair with it, but curious what others are using?



Modi Multibit. But now I feel I should upgrade


----------



## kumar402

I am using Chord Mojo and SMSL SU-8 V2 sometimes.
I was planning to get MHDT ORCHID but it has 3V out which may be bit high for LP.


----------



## LCMusicLover

kumar402 said:


> I am using Chord Mojo and SMSL SU-8 V2 sometimes.
> I was planning to get MHDT ORCHID but it has 3V out which may be bit high for LP.


Lower than the 4,4 volts from my Pontus.


----------



## Zachik

lukeslens said:


> I'm curious what DACs people here are using with their Liquid Platinum? Planning on getting an LP and looking at the RME ADI-2 to pair with it, but curious what others are using?


Metrum Amethyst.


----------



## Wes S (Feb 18, 2019)

Zachik said:


> Metrum Amethyst.


I am interested in this dac.  How do you like it, with LP?  Have you heard the GUMBY?  I am looking at both of these.


----------



## Zachik

Wes S said:


> I am interested in this dac.  How do you like it, with LP?  Have you heard the GUMBY?  I am looking at both of these.


EXCELLENT question!!!  Here is why:
I was debating between those 2 exact DACs myself. Had the opportunity to blind test both A/B style at a friend's house. Was true blind A/B since my friend did the switch back and forth, so I did not know which is which!
I played several familiar tracks, signaling to him when to switch (mid-song).

At the end of the test, 90% of the time I could not tell a difference at all. maybe even 95% of the time...
The very few tracks that I could tell a MINOR difference - it was more of a little different. Not better / worse type of a difference.
Interestingly, I consistently favored the exact same DAC when difference was observed!
That turned to be the Metrum 
Price and form factor were advantage to Metrum as well...
Gumby has better connectivity, though (including Balanced out, which Metrum lacks)

All in all, I am very happy with my Metrum Amethyst 
Important to note that I do NOT have golden ears, and was never musically trained (never played an instrument, etc) - so in my mind my brain is less observing than other people's.  For that reason, other people might A/B same DACs and tell me they hear night and day difference.
Another note is that my friend has better ears / brain than me, and after I was done he told me that for him - the 2 are "more similar than different".

Bottom line Wes - I do not think you could go wrong with either of them! 

Hope that helps


----------



## Wes S (Feb 18, 2019)

Wow Zachik!  Thanks for that info!


----------



## omniweltall

Zachik said:


> Important to note that I do NOT have golden ears,


Most people dont. It is better to ackowledge that, rather than falling for our biases, which a lot of people do.


----------



## Fogelstrauss

lukeslens said:


> I'm curious what DACs people here are using with their Liquid Platinum? Planning on getting an LP and looking at the RME ADI-2 to pair with it, but curious what others are using?



I use adi2 pro with my empyrians. Great product


----------



## Rattle

I'm using mimby, love the setup. Scary that I'm looking at $1000+ DACS and headphones now. Very happy with mimby-LP-6xx would like something balanced but SE @ 2v seems to do the LP some favors without the hassle of any further attenuation.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Zachik said:


> EXCELLENT question!!!  Here is why:
> I was debating between those 2 exact DACs myself. Had the opportunity to blind test both A/B style at a friend's house. Was true blind A/B since my friend did the switch back and forth, so I did not know which is which!
> I played several familiar tracks, signaling to him when to switch (mid-song).
> 
> ...


Do you happen to know if the Gumby was A1 or A2?

Thanks


----------



## TK16

Is there a date that the Gumby went to A2? I bought mine Christmas 2017 with USB gen 5.


----------



## Zachik

omniweltall said:


> Most people dont. It is better to ackowledge that, rather than falling for our biases, which a lot of people do.


I know, but was important to note so people won't start blaming me for not noticing "night and day" differences


----------



## Zachik

LCMusicLover said:


> Do you happen to know if the Gumby was A1 or A2?
> 
> Thanks


Very old Gumby, so definitely A1.


----------



## skyline315

Zachik said:


> Very old Gumby, so definitely A1.


Also, important to note if you were going balanced out from the Gumby.


----------



## MikeW (Feb 18, 2019)

dac with attenuation is nice for this amp i'd imagine. Else you can spend 620$ for attenuation like bob.. one of the many reason's I went with RME ADI-2. Though I still don't own LP, the RME will redefine what you think a dac should do. I'll likely, eventually move to a Yggy, but damn this is a killer product.


----------



## Zachik

skyline315 said:


> Also, important to note if you were going balanced out from the Gumby.


Compared SE vs. SE. Not Balanced.  Trying to keep it as fair as possible 
Keep in mind Amethyst has a built-in headphone amp. Never use it personally, but comparing features - this is a pro for the Amethyst...


----------



## Jim N

lukeslens said:


> I'm curious what DACs people here are using with their Liquid Platinum? Planning on getting an LP and looking at the RME ADI-2 to pair with it, but curious what others are using?



A Gumby (balanced in with Rothwell XLR -15db attenuators) and an Auralic Vega (SE but no attenuators needed as it has volume control).

The Rothwell XLR attenuators, according to my old ears, have no adverse sonic impact and really increase the fine tuning I can do on the LP's volume. My old low volume 80's CD's (DMP, GRP, etc) get cranked up past 1 o'clock for adequate volume. 

Also rolled in some 1960's Amperex NOS 6922 tubes and they are better then the Genalex. Not a revelation but rather a refinement.


----------



## Wes S

Zachik said:


> Compared SE vs. SE. Not Balanced.  Trying to keep it as fair as possible
> Keep in mind Amethyst has a built-in headphone amp. Never use it personally, but comparing features - this is a pro for the Amethyst...


I actually was interested in the SE comparison, so thanks again Zachik!


----------



## sahmen

So here are  a couple of  questions for those who have the expertise to answer :  For a hybrid amp, such as the LP, how big a difference in sound quality and performance, should one be normally entitled to expect, by swapping one set of tubes against another? Is one entitled to expect to hear "night and day" differences in sound quality, as one replaces the stock tubes, with some vintage "holy grail" type, NOS tubes, for example?

In my case I have tried the
1. Stock
2. Genalex Gold Lions
3. 6N23P Reflektor Holy Grail 1975 SWGP Silver Shield (E88CC/E188CC, 7308/6922) '75
4. Telefunken E88CC/6922, military style, from ULM, Germany, 1960s
9. Telefunken E188CC 7308 . etc. etc.

So far I shall call the sq differences I have heard, by swapping one of these pairs for another, as certainly "Interesting," but "subtle," rather than huuuuge, in a game-changing way...

In other words, I really do love how the LP sounds with many of these pairs. It actually does not sound "bad" with any of the pairs I have listed.  However, while  I do love the way the LP sounds when paired with any of these tubes sounds on my "Metrum ambre/Roon" ==>> Metrum Onyx DAC, ==>> LP rig, I am yet to see any pair of tubes that might elevate the sq performance of that rig, to the level of my other rig, and even possibly, beyond that level:

 'Metrum Ambre/Roon ==>> Schiit Yggy 2 ==..Violectric v281

I am not assuming that there is any problem in such findings, but if there are any, will they arise because I am expecting too much from a pair of tubes, or because I haven't still found the best tubes for the LP, to experiment with as yet? In other words, how much difference, is one entitled to expect a pair of tubes to make on such a hybrid amp, if there is a simple answer to such a question?.


----------



## Wes S (Feb 19, 2019)

sahmen said:


> So here are  a couple of  questions for those who have the expertise to answer :  For a hybrid amp, such as the LP, how big a difference in sound quality and performance, should one be normally entitled to expect, by swapping one set of tubes against another? Is one entitled to expect to hear "night and day" differences in sound quality, as one replaces the stock tubes, with some vintage "holy grail" type, NOS tubes, for example?
> 
> In my case I have tried the
> 1. Stock
> ...


I am using a pair of Brimar CV2492, and they sound quite a bit different than the Amperex 7308.  I think these differences are quite noticeable.  When tube rolling, I try to experiment with tubes, that are known to sound completely different, and then dial in from there.  I suggest rolling tubes from different parts of the world, to get different flavors.  For instance British vs. American vs. German, all different house sounds.  Difference will be more subtle, when comparing a German to a German for example.  There are exceptions, but as a guide, this should help.


----------



## Phantaminum (Feb 19, 2019)

sahmen said:


> So here are  a couple of  questions for those who have the expertise to answer :  For a hybrid amp, such as the LP, how big a difference in sound quality and performance, should one be normally entitled to expect, by swapping one set of tubes against another? Is one entitled to expect to hear "night and day" differences in sound quality, as one replaces the stock tubes, with some vintage "holy grail" type, NOS tubes, for example?
> 
> In my case I have tried the
> 1. Stock
> ...



It's a game of inches when tube rolling on a hybrid amp at this price. The amp itself inherently has its own sound that will not change and the tubes move it one way or the other but that may be the the difference in being able to listen to the HD800 or ripping it off your head. Some tubes can and will make a significant difference. The Siemen's CCa is a bit too much in this amp, for my ears, with my current headphones but the cheaper $40 a pair Russian 6N3P square getter tubes are fast, euphonic, and still has great sub bass/mid bass. To be fair the CCas have not been burned in all the way but the Ruskies haven't been either.

If you want bigger changes with tubes; a good start is with the Bottlehead Crack OTL or more expensive OTL/SET amp solutions.


----------



## skyline315

Wes S said:


> I actually was interested in the SE comparison, so thanks again Zachik!


Why?

If you're considering a Gumby/LP combo, the SE out will hamstring the Gumby.  It's meant to be used balanced.


----------



## Wes S

Anyone looking for a good tube roll, to hear a diff


skyline315 said:


> Why?
> 
> If you're considering a Gumby/LP combo, the SE out will hamstring the Gumby.  It's meant to be used balanced.


Becau


skyline315 said:


> Why?
> 
> If you're considering a Gumby/LP combo, the SE out will hamstring the Gumby.  It's meant to be used balanced.


I am worried about loosing volume control, with balanced.


----------



## skyline315

sahmen said:


> So far I shall call the sq differences I have heard, by swapping one of these pairs for another, as certainly "Interesting," but "subtle," rather than huuuuge, in a game-changing way...


Tube rolling doesn't make an amp better or worse, assuming all the tubes you use are high quality...there is some junk out there.  They simply provide coloration.

Whether or not those differences are big or small depends on your preferences and chain synergy.  

For instance, you might find the mids to be slightly peaky with the stock tubes, and a new set of tubes tames that a bit.  It's a small/subtle change in the grand scheme of things, but it may take a system from un-listenable to listenable for a particular person given their chain and their preferences.

So they'll come back and describe the difference as night and day, dramatic, etc.

You have to take all those things with a grain of salt.  Good data points, but not gospel.


----------



## kumar402

Please pardon my lack of knowledge but have a question regarding preamp gain in software.
Well I was playing with DSP engine of Roon yesterday. I came across EQ setting by Oratory1990 for HD800s. As per his EQ setting we have to apply around -10.2 DB of gain as there is bass boost of around 10.2 Db at lower frequency range. I applied -10.2 in the Headspace setting of Roon.
Does applying Preamp gain in software has effect on SNR or Resolution loss similar to applying volume control in Software, as per my understanding it shouldn't have.
Please let me know.


----------



## skyline315

Wes S said:


> Because I am worried about loosing volume control, with balanced.


The volume difference between SE and balanced is marginal at best with the HD650 and HE-500. YMMV based on headphone sensitivity, however.

If you're determined to stick with SE, then I'd go ahead and cross the Gumby off your list. Find a DAC that's designed to sound its best via SE, rather than a balanced DAC that includes SE as a matter of convenience.


----------



## Wes S

skyline315 said:


> The volume difference between SE and balanced is marginal at best with the HD650 and HE-500. YMMV based on headphone sensitivity, however.
> 
> If you're determined to stick with SE, then I'd go ahead and cross the Gumby off your list. Find a DAC that's designed to sound its best via SE, rather than a balanced DAC that includes SE as a matter of convenience.


I am not determined to use SE, just researching options.  Thanks for the info!


----------



## TK16 (Feb 19, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> It's a game of inches when tube rolling on a hybrid amp at this price. The amp itself inherently has its own sound that will not change and the tubes move it one way or the other but that may be the the difference in being able to listen to the HD800 or ripping it off your head. Some tubes can and will make a significant difference. The Siemen's CCa is a bit too much in this amp, for my ears, with my current headphones but the cheaper $40 a pair Russian 6N3P square getter tubes are fast, euphonic, and still has great sub bass/mid bass. To be fair the CCas have not been burned in all the way but the Ruskies haven't been either.
> 
> If you want bigger changes with tubes; a good start is with the Bottlehead Crack OTL or more expensive OTL/SET amp solutions.


You were right the MJ2 changes sound sig more than the LP. Though the 57 Blackburn ECC82 is quite an excellent tube and noticeably better than all the tubes I have tried in the LP. Changes are still there in the LP but a bit less noticeable than MJ2. This tube LP combo is much better with LCD2C cans. Synergy is not there in the MJ2.


----------



## sahmen

Wes S said:


> I am using a pair of Brimar CV2492, and they sound quite a bit different than the Amperex 7308.  I think these differences are quite noticeable.  When tube rolling, I try to experiment with tubes, that are known to sound completely different, and then dial in from there.  I suggest rolling tubes from different parts of the world, to get different flavors.  For instance British vs. American vs. German, all different house sounds.  Difference will be more subtle, when comparing a German to a German for example.  There are exceptions, but as a guide, this should help.



Thanks for the input :  I have not personally tested this theory regarding a possible unique house sound for each different country, but I shall experiment with that when I get the chance, and report back at some point.


----------



## Wes S (Feb 19, 2019)

sahmen said:


> Thanks for the input :  I have not personally tested this theory regarding a possible unique house sound for each different country, but I shall experiment with that when I get the chance, and report back at some point.


If you can find a Brimar CV2492, I say jump on it.  I have just burned in a pair, and all I have to say, is wow.  I will elaborate on my findings, in the tube rolling thread.  And the differences between the Amperex 7308 and Brimar CV2492, are very obvious.


----------



## kumar402

Wes S said:


> If you can find a Brimar CV2492, I say jump on it.  I have just burned in a pair, and all I have to say, is wow.  I will elaborate on my findings, in the tube rolling thread.  And the differences between the Amperex 7308 and Brimar CV2492, are very obvious.


where did you get these from?


----------



## Wes S (Feb 19, 2019)

kumar402 said:


> where did you get these from?


Ebay.  I snatched up 3 pair, because they are that good.  Just make sure they are Brimar, not Mullard.  Good info, about them in the Lyr tube rolling thread.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Ebay.  I snatched up 3 pair, because they are that good.  Just make sure they are Brimar, not Mullard.  Good info, about them in the Lyr tube rolling thread.


Looks like you bought out all the remaining stock, lol. Speaking of Mullard, I just switched out a Blackburn ECC82 pair with a Mitcham ECC82 pair about a year apart between the Mullards. The Blackburn tubes featured rich creamy tone similar to the Heerlen PW 6922. The Mitchams had a more refined sound, not as rich sounding but still warm. Bass tighter on the Mitcham and more detail and separation.


----------



## MikeW (Feb 19, 2019)

Just snagged a used LP in the FS forum... im excited to try this one out, hope it's not a mistake with the QC these have had. Might get it by the weekend, we'll see. We'll be pairing it with the RME ADI-2, and HD650. Should be a pretty competent system


----------



## TK16

MikeW said:


> Just snagged a used LP in the FS forum... im excited to try this one out, hope it's not a mistake with the QC these have had. Might get it by the weekend, we'll see. We'll be pairing it with the RME ADI-2, and HD650. Should be a pretty competent system


Mines been solid, been running it 400 plus hours burning in sets of tubes I bought for it.


----------



## sahmen

Phantaminum said:


> It's a game of inches when tube rolling on a hybrid amp at this price. The amp itself inherently has its own sound that will not change and the tubes move it one way or the other but that may be the the difference in being able to listen to the HD800 or ripping it off your head. Some tubes can and will make a significant difference. The Siemen's CCa is a bit too much in this amp, for my ears, with my current headphones but the cheaper $40 a pair Russian 6N3P square getter tubes are fast, euphonic, and still has great sub bass/mid bass. To be fair the CCas have not been burned in all the way but the Ruskies haven't been either.
> 
> If you want bigger changes with tubes; a good start is with the Bottlehead Crack OTL or more expensive OTL/SET amp solutions.



Thanks for your input. All points are well taken.  However, I am not interested in experimenting with any OTL or OTL/SET.  I am actually more than happy with the way the LP is sounding with the tubes and the cans I have.  It  is just that I am new to tubes altogether, and I am trying to get a sense of what sonic contributions i can expect from tubes, which is why I asked my question.


----------



## CoFire

TK16 said:


> You were right the MJ2 changes sound sig more than the LP. Though the 57 Blackburn ECC82 is quite an excellent tube and noticeably better than all the tubes I have tried in the LP. Changes are still there in the LP but a bit less noticeable than MJ2. This tube LP combo is much better with LCD2C cans. Synergy is not there in the MJ2.



Can you list all the other tubes you tried? Is tough getting a bearing on what people like when you don't know what they prefer their current choice over. Thanks.


----------



## Focux

reeltime said:


> Massdrop has one as well. Monoprice and Massdrop are changing the game.



https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=24459

the Monoprice one costs more..??


----------



## TK16

CoFire said:


> Can you list all the other tubes you tried? Is tough getting a bearing on what people like when you don't know what they prefer their current choice over. Thanks.


What I have currently are in my profile page, tried a lot more over the years.


----------



## VintageAudio

I've recently invested in the Hifiman Susvara and have an ADI-2 DAC on order.

Need a low cost amp that can help me make the most of my Susvara and DAC.

The Susvara's need lots of juice to make them shine.  I'm currently running them off of a NAD C 315BEE integrated amp via speaker taps.

I was considering the Massdrop THX AAA 789 and now more recently the Monoprice Liquid Platinum.

According to this spreadsheet, the LP should have enough power...but will it be a pairing that help me squeeze the most out of my Susvaras?


----------



## Articnoise

skyline315 said:


> Tube rolling doesn't make an amp better or worse, assuming all the tubes you use are high quality...there is some junk out there.  They simply provide coloration.
> 
> Whether or not those differences are big or small depends on your preferences and chain synergy.
> 
> ...



Tubes are essential parts of a tube amp and can make a big SQ difference IMO. Not all tube amps are the same thou and don’t change equally when changing tubes. Some amps just sound a bit different while some are more like chameleons and sound very different depending on tubes.


----------



## MikeW (Feb 23, 2019)

VintageAudio said:


> I've recently invested in the Hifiman Susvara and have an ADI-2 DAC on order.
> 
> Need a low cost amp that can help me make the most of my Susvara and DAC.
> 
> ...



While not super powerful, the Amp section of the ADI-2 is quite potent. A recent member who owns both the ADI-2 and THX 789, compared them and prefered the Headamp section of the ADI-2.  You might want to give it a serious listen before investing in 300-500$ amps. As I think you need to spend significantly more to better it by a worthwhile margin. Though that particular headphone may be a bit starved with "only" 1.5 watt into 32 Ohms. I will say the ADI-2 has no problem driving my  HD650 with relative ease. I found the reports of the ADI2's amp to be of only "mediocore" "convenience" to be highly exaggerated. As it's quite capable, and competitive with my Jotunheim, though not as powerful. As compared to the JOT, the ADI-2's amp definitely has a different sound profile, but really gives nothing up in technicals, perhaps better. It is very dry and flat though, but it's easily tailored to your needs with it's excellent built in PEQ, Crossfeed, and Filters, it's a little "underwhelming" at first, which in my experience can be a good thing, as gear that gives an instant "wow" factor often  finds itself grating and annoying in time. Gear that i've been less immediately impressed with often show's it true color in time and wins the race.

Anecdotally, there was a recent THX789 sale whereby the seller's reason for the sale was the purchase of a Liquid Platinum. Should be noted that Schiit LYR3 is stupid powerful too, more then either of these options by alot. (9 watt into 32 ohm), kind of a nice middle ground between 789 and Liquid Platinum, at 499$ it's available to ship today as well.


----------



## VintageAudio

MikeW said:


> While not super powerful, the Amp section of the ADI-2 is quite potent. A recent member who owns both the ADI-2 and THX 789, compared them and prefered the Headamp section of the ADI-2.  You might want to give it a serious listen before investing in 300-500$ amps. As I think you need to spend significantly more to better it by a worthwhile margin. Though that particular headphone may be a bit starved with "only" 1.5 watt into 32 Ohms. I will say the ADI-2 has no problem driving my  HD650 with relative ease. I found the reports of the ADI2's amp to be of only "mediocore" "convenience" to be highly exaggerated. As it's quite capable, and competitive with my Jotunheim, though not as powerful. As compared to the JOT, the ADI-2's amp definitely has a different sound profile, but really gives nothing up in technicals, perhaps better. It is very dry and flat though, but it's easily tailored to your needs with it's excellent built in PEQ, Crossfeed, and Filters, it's a little "underwhelming" at first, which in my experience can be a good thing, as gear that gives an instant "wow" factor often  finds itself grating and annoying in time. Gear that i've been less immediately impressed with often show's it true color in time and wins the race.
> 
> Anecdotally, there was a recent THX789 sale whereby the seller's reason for the sale was the purchase of a Liquid Platinum. Should be noted that Schiit LYR3 is stupid powerful too, more then either of these options by alot. (9 watt into 32 ohm), kind of a nice middle ground between 789 and Liquid Platinum, at 499$ it's available to ship today as well. With such a nice DAC and Headphone, I I think your really selling yourself short with any of these options, as Sub 1k amps don't really "match" the rest of your system. Might consider Felik's Elise/Euphoria, or other high end OTL.



I pulled the trigger on the LP.  I’ve owned the ADI-2 Pro Anniversary before so I’m well aware of how clean the HPA section is.  It’s really a matter of power.  Susvara is another beast, even more hungry than Abyss and HE6.  I guess I’ll find out of the LP is up to task.  If not I may just keep it on speaker taps and drive it from my vintage marantz.


----------



## MikeW (Feb 23, 2019)

Yeah, I actually did not realize what a beast Susvara was, until after my post. So it's a special phone with unique requirements. Most of what I said kind go's out the window with this one. My  bad. It's hard for me to understand the allure of these types of phones in today's world. Kinda ham-string's all your options when you need to drive a Unicorn headphone. There are so many great options these day's that just don't have the limitation.


----------



## Zachik

Re-opening the attenuation topic:
Who uses Schiit Sys, Nobsound or any other gadget to attenuate the input signal into LP?

I have been trying (and posted about it in the LP tube rolling thread) WE396A tubes with the LP, and experience background noise issues.
I strongly suspect (and want to test this theory) that by attenuating the input signal - I will reduce or eliminate this noise issue!
Quite some time ago there was this discussion, and @atomicbob 's thread on the subject was linked, and @runeight mentioned an idea for 9V battery powered attenuation...

So... did anyone make any tests / experiments with ANY options? Passive and/or active?
And do you guys think that could be a solution for tubes that are noisy on LP but test good?

ANY feedback is appreciated!


----------



## TK16

Zachik said:


> Re-opening the attenuation topic:
> Who uses Schiit Sys, Nobsound or any other gadget to attenuate the input signal into LP?
> 
> I have been trying (and posted about it in the LP tube rolling thread) WE396A tubes with the LP, and experience background noise issues.
> ...


I would return the 2 noisy tubes, keep the good one and try your luck buying a single. I got a noisy WE pair or single (did not investigate more). Was using the Nobsound NS-052 when testing for noisy tubes this morning. Others may help you more on the attenuation fiddling around if that is even possible.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Zachik said:


> Re-opening the attenuation topic:
> Who uses Schiit Sys, Nobsound or any other gadget to attenuate the input signal into LP?
> ...
> So... did anyone make any tests / experiments with ANY options? Passive and/or active?
> ...


I’m using my Emotiva XSP-1 (active) preamp right now, but I’m not thrilled with it. Seems like I’m getting some coloration from this chain which I did’t notice with my SS amps. I’ve got a Hattor Mini (passive) preamp incoming which I hope will be an improvement.

I’ll report my results one the Hattor comes in — probably a couple weeks out though.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

VintageAudio said:


> I've recently invested in the Hifiman Susvara and have an ADI-2 DAC on order.
> 
> Need a low cost amp that can help me make the most of my Susvara and DAC.
> 
> ...



The LP, with Amperex Tubes, was a fantastic pairing with my OG Abyss 1266. I never had the volume past 10:30.


----------



## Zachik

TK16 said:


> I would return the 2 noisy tubes, keep the good one and try your luck buying a single. I got a noisy WE pair or single (did not investigate more). Was using the Nobsound NS-052 when testing for noisy tubes this morning. Others may help you more on the attenuation fiddling around if that is even possible.


Are you saying that even with the Nobsound NS-052 between DAC and LP, noisy tubes are not tamed down? Did you try to lower input level with the Nobsound NS-052 to say 50% and still noisy tubes are noisy?
You definitely benefit with much more useful range on the LP volume knob, though - right?


----------



## TK16

Zachik said:


> Are you saying that even with the Nobsound NS-052 between DAC and LP, noisy tubes are not tamed down? Did you try to lower input level with the Nobsound NS-052 to say 50% and still noisy tubes are noisy?
> You definitely benefit with much more useful range on the LP volume knob, though - right?


You get more range with the Nobsound but the tubes exhibited noise with volume at o on both or maxed out on the volume controls. I don't think the noise increased with changes in volume. Constant iirc.


----------



## Wheel Hoss

Newb question:

How does this amp connect to a DAC?

Looking at the Lyr 3 and this. But LP has no DAC. So if I get a Gumby or something and connect that to my MacBook, how does the Gumby interface with the LP? 

Having trouble figuring it out by looking at pictures of inputs.


----------



## kumar402

Wheel Hoss said:


> Newb question:
> 
> How does this amp connect to a DAC?
> 
> ...


LP has balanced and RCA input. So either you can get pair of RCA Interconnect or balanced interconnect (XLR) from Schiit directly when 
You order Gumby from them or you can get those from Amazon for $10


----------



## Pharmaboy

Wes S said:


> I am using a pair of Brimar CV2492, and they sound quite a bit different than the Amperex 7308.  I think these differences are quite noticeable.  When tube rolling, I try to experiment with tubes, that are known to sound completely different, and then dial in from there.  I suggest rolling tubes from different parts of the world, to get different flavors.  For instance British vs. American vs. German, all different house sounds.  Difference will be more subtle, when comparing a German to a German for example.  There are exceptions, but as a guide, this should help.



Whenever I read a post like this (featuring a tube I never heard)...I always wonder how you knew to pick these particular tubes.


----------



## Wes S (Feb 25, 2019)

Pharmaboy said:


> Whenever I read a post like this (featuring a tube I never heard)...I always wonder how you knew to pick these particular tubes.


I read through the Lyr tube rolling thread, and have followed a few members over the years, that have the same views on tube sound signatures, as me.  Also, a bunch of research online, and tube rolling a bunch myself, to learn the sound signatures.  I basically have a good idea, what most 6922 variants sound like, because of the things mentioned above.  This forum and its members have saved me a ton of money, by helping learn about tubes.  In the Lyr tube rolling thread, you can read about several members journey, through tubes and learn from them.  They have been through all the greats.

Basically i started with the Amperex as first roll, because it is pretty much even top to bottom.  Then realized i wanted more extension on both ends and a little more warmth in the mids, so went for the Brimar, because i knew it was gonna give me the biggest change toward what i wanted to hear, and so far it is spot on.  I like to roll tubes with completely different sound sigs and then dial in from there, if needed with more rolling.


----------



## Wes S

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-1333

Lots of good tube info.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Wes S said:


> I read through the Lyr tube rolling thread, and have followed a few members over the years, that have the same views on tube sound signatures, as me.  Also, a bunch of research online, and tube rolling a bunch myself, to learn the sound signatures.  I basically have a good idea, what most 6922 variants sound like, because of the things mentioned above.  This forum and its members have saved me a ton of money, by helping learn about tubes.  In the Lyr tube rolling thread, you can read about several members journey, through tubes and learn from them.  They have been through all the greats.
> 
> Basically i started with the Amperex as first roll, because it is pretty much even top to bottom.  Then realized i wanted more extension on both ends and a little more warmth in the mids, so went for the Brimar, because i knew it was gonna give me the biggest change toward what i wanted to hear, and so far it is spot on.  I like to roll tubes with completely different sound sigs and then dial in from there, if needed with more rolling.



Hmmm...I don't have the mindset of a tube-roller (at least, not yet). But now you have me thinking:

I have a Woo WA3 (SE OTL amp) ... love the sound
Current driver tubes are 6922 Gold Pin Amperex NOS I purchased from Woo as an upgrade
Will these Brimars drop in as replacements for the 6922?
If yes, what might I expect to hear? 

Sorry for off-topic. I'm pretty interested in the LP, too.


----------



## Wes S

Pharmaboy said:


> Hmmm...I don't have the mindset of a tube-roller (at least, not yet). But now you have me thinking:
> 
> I have a Woo WA3 (SE OTL amp) ... love the sound
> Current driver tubes are 6922 Gold Pin Amperex NOS I purchased from Woo as an upgrade
> ...


Yes they are 6922 drop in replacements.  Are they Amperex Holland made or USA?  That will make a difference.  However, with the Brimar, compared to both, will have more warmth in the mids, and way deeper bass.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Wes S said:


> Yes they are 6922 drop in replacements.  Are they Amperex Holland made or USA?  That will make a difference.  However, with the Brimar, compared to both, will have more warmth in the mids, and way deeper bass.



They're made in Holland. 

Way more bass? Damn...where can I find them? 

I searched and found one (of 7) F.S. on ebay, but the legends on each tube look quite different from all the pix I can find.


----------



## TK16

Pharmaboy said:


> They're made in Holland.
> 
> Way more bass? Damn...where can I find them?
> 
> I searched and found one (of 7) F.S. on ebay, but the legends on each tube look quite different from all the pix I can find.


This is what they look like with KB/AD on the glass.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-x-Brimar...&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&redirect=mobile


----------



## Pharmaboy

Thanks @Wes S & @TK16 ... I'm getting an education here.


----------



## MikeW (Feb 27, 2019)

Deal alert... price is weird  on amazon.. 704$ as of 2/27 @ 2:53 CST


----------



## VintageAudio

I actually ordered one when it was selling for $845.75 because Monoprice was not going to have stock until Apr.  It was supposed to have arrived last Sunday but never did so I had to put in a dispute.

Then yesterday it did a double price drop, first to $745ish and then now at $704.  My buddy snuck in an order on my behalf before they just ran out of stock until Mar 11.  Whew!

Now just waiting for my refund and my liquid Plat which should arrive Fri!  Can't wait.  Love saving money.


----------



## Zachik

Anyone knows whether this backorder until April is due to Monoprice re-spinning the design (i.e. coming up with LPv2)?!


----------



## lamaslamas

Hi Guys, 
I'm considering to upgrade from Lyr 3 to the Cavalli LP, 

Ordering from EU, unfortunately the LP isn't available here, so shipping from usa would cost a ~25% more than its retail price including customs fees

Would the cavalli be a worth improvement coming from the Lyr 3?

I need to drive a JPS Abyss

As a DAC I would use a Chord Mojo


----------



## kumar402

Zachik said:


> Anyone knows whether this backorder until April is due to Monoprice re-spinning the design (i.e. coming up with LPv2)?!


I don't think v2 will be coming out in Less then 6 months since its release unless some major design flaws were discovered,which is highly unlikely.
More plausible reason could be the shortage of raws from Supplier etc.


----------



## Wes S

lamaslamas said:


> Hi Guys,
> I'm considering to upgrade from Lyr 3 to the Cavalli LP,
> 
> Ordering from EU, unfortunately the LP isn't available here, so shipping from usa would cost a ~25% more than its retail price including customs fees
> ...


As stated several times in this thread, the LP is a step up, in every aspect from the Lyr 3.  I have heard that the Abyss sound awesome, with the LP, from a well known reviewer and other members of this forum.


----------



## bgbkt

Wes S said:


> As stated several times in this thread, the LP is a step up, in every aspect from the Lyr 3.  I have heard that the Abyss sound awesome, with the LP, from a well known reviewer and other members of this forum.



LP is definitely step up in every aspect. After using LP for 2 months I’ve decided to sell Lyr 3. I haven’t even turned on Lyr 3 in last 1 month and I don’t think I miss anything or feel like going back to it.


----------



## Zachik

kumar402 said:


> I don't think v2 will be coming out in Less then 6 months since its release unless some major design flaws were discovered,which is highly unlikely.
> More plausible reason could be the shortage of raws from Supplier etc.


I have seen Monoprice do that before... e.g. M1060 headphones... Granted, over there people have been experiencing serious issues!


----------



## kumar402

Zachik said:


> I have seen Monoprice do that before... e.g. M1060 headphones... Granted, over there people have been experiencing serious issues!


This is my first purchase from Monoprice except for cables. So not sure about their strategy.
But if they Come up with V2, which I still feel.is highly unlikely, wouldn't it mean that something is wrong with V1 and they have corrected that in V2.


----------



## Zachik

kumar402 said:


> This is my first purchase from Monoprice except for cables. So not sure about their strategy.
> But if they Come up with V2, which I still feel.is highly unlikely, wouldn't it mean that something is wrong with V1 and they have corrected that in V2.


Some people have been complaining that this amp needs a low/high gain switch, since the current (only) gain is too high for some headphones... so v2 could be in response to that.
I am not really aware of any other improvement requests or needs.


----------



## KG Jag

If Alex has any say about it, I strongly suspect that improvements and modifications will be made in the next production run.  Whether that qualifies as V2 or not depends on exactly what changes are made, marketing and personal viewpoint.


----------



## LCMusicLover

kumar402 said:


> ...More plausible reason could be the shortage of raws from Supplier etc.


Agree. They probably sub out the build and need some time to get the next batch done. Could be a materials bottle-neck, or just scheduling the build at whatever facility they’re using.


----------



## Wheel Hoss

Zachik said:


> Some people have been complaining that this amp needs a low/high gain switch, since the current (only) gain is too high for some headphones... so v2 could be in response to that.
> I am not really aware of any other improvement requests or needs.



What kind of headphones would be too sensitive?


----------



## heliosphann

heliosphann said:


> Alex has stated a few reasons for only having 5x gain. One of which there wasn't any extra room to fit everything in that small of a form factor, so I doubt you'll see a mere revision with a gain switch.



Like I said above earlier in the thread, I seriously doubt there will be any significant revisions if any. This is largely due to the fact that there just isn't much extra room in the chassis. Hypothetically saying there was a major 2nd version. Then you're talking about an extensive redesign of multiple components, which will most likely lead to increased production costs and subsequently an increased sales price. I just don't think Monoprice would do that, but I could be wrong...

Maybe @runeight could chime in if he can say anything at all.


----------



## Wheel Hoss

I heard some people pair this with a Chord Mojo. How would this work in terms of connections?

Also is this a viable option to a dedicated DAC?


----------



## heliosphann (Feb 28, 2019)

Wheel Hoss said:


> I heard some people pair this with a Chord Mojo. How would this work in terms of connections?
> 
> Also is this a viable option to a dedicated DAC?



You could pair it with a Mojo. You'll just have to run a 1/8th to dual RCA splitter or a similar cable into the Platinum.

The Mojo can be put in a line-level type mode when you power it on. Just hold all three buttons when powering the unit on (colors should both be light blue). The Mojo isn't the most convenient DAC to use with a dedicated desktop setup, but you can do it.


----------



## Wheel Hoss

So I would probably end up pairing it with a Bimby or Gumby eventually. Ok cool. 

One more newb question: why would I want it in Line Out mode?


----------



## heliosphann

Wheel Hoss said:


> So I would probably end up pairing it with a Bimby or Gumby eventually. Ok cool.
> 
> One more newb question: why would I want it in Line Out mode?



Most DACs output at a line level, which means the output signal is in a range to interconnect with components, like an amp. Since the Mojo is a DAC/AMP, you don't want to double amp your signal which is why the Mojo is set to line level. The benefit of using something like a Mojo is you could use it as an attenuator if you need more range on the LP with certain headphones.


----------



## kumar402 (Feb 28, 2019)

Wheel Hoss said:


> I heard some people pair this with a Chord Mojo. How would this work in terms of connections?
> 
> Also is this a viable option to a dedicated DAC?


I am using with Chord Mojo. You will get Amazon basic cable for 3.5mm to 2 Male RCA at around $7. Nice build quality.
There is unbalanced RCA input in LP. Now you can put Mojo in Line level out by holding down all 3 button when powering on. It will throw 3v out.This is safe option if you plan to use Mojo directly with headphone as well . That’s because when you switch it off and switch it back on Mojo,  won’t remember the line out unless you press all 3 buttons again.
But if you can go 4 taps volume down from 3 v setting done above ,like you normally do to reduce volume , you will get ~2v line out. However once you move to 2v level your Mojo will remember this setting so be cautious before you connect any headphone.


----------



## Zachik

Wheel Hoss said:


> What kind of headphones would be too sensitive?


As an example, Campfire Cascade. When I say "too sensitive" - what I mean is:
There is very small range of *useful* volume play before it gets too loud. Like 10% of the volume knob range.


----------



## TK16

Zachik said:


> As an example, Campfire Cascade. When I say "too sensitive" - what I mean is:
> There is very small range of *useful* volume play before it gets too loud. Like 10% of the volume knob range.


Did you order that Nobsound?


----------



## Wheel Hoss (Feb 28, 2019)

kumar402 said:


> I am using with Chord Mojo. You will get Amazon basic cable for 3.5mm to 2 Male RCA at around $7. Nice build quality.
> There is unbalanced RCA input in LP. Now you can put Mojo in Line level out by holding down all 3 button when powering on. It will throw 3v out.This is safe option if you plan to use Mojo directly with headphone as well . That’s because when you switch it off and switch it back on Mojo,  won’t remember the line out unless you press all 3 buttons again.
> But if you can go 4 taps volume down from 3 v setting done above ,like you normally do to reduce volume , you will get ~2v line out. However once you move to 2v level your Mojo will remember this setting so be cautious before you connect any headphone.



Thanks for all the feedback everyone. So do you find the Mojo is a good enough DAC for the LP (vs getting a dedicated DAC)? Part of issue for me is lack of space on desk. So either a LP with Mojo or Lyr 3 with built in DAC appeals to me over an LP with a Bitfrost. They aren’t same size and wouldn’t stack from the looks of it and would take up tons of space.


----------



## Zachik

TK16 said:


> Did you order that Nobsound?


I did not. Thinking it might make more sense adding attenuator between LP and headphones (instead of in front of line in)...
Still debating it, though.  Or maybe @runeight 's active preamp that was briefly mentioned by him... (if and when it becomes a reality that is)


----------



## kumar402

Wheel Hoss said:


> Thanks for all the feedback everyone. So do you find the Mojo is a good enough DAC for the LP (vs getting a dedicated DAC)? Part of issue for me is lack of space on desk. So either a LP with Mojo or Lyr 3 with built in DAC appeals to me over an LP with a Bitfrost. They aren’t same size and wouldn’t stack from the looks of it and would take up tons of space.


Mojo with LP is very competent. The Bass and Mids are good and so is the imaging and soundstage.
You won’t feel that you are missing a thing and this will only be dwarfed by very high end system and definitely not by Lyr3
Also depends on the headphones you own. Schiit gears are bright in nature that’s their house signature. 
I own 800s and I can’t use it with schiit amp. I found the treble piercing. Haven’t heard Lyr3 though.


----------



## Zachik

kumar402 said:


> I found the treble piercing. Haven’t heard Lyr3 though.


That is the reason I sold my Jotunheim. That, and the cold and clinical sounds signature.
The Lyr 3 is TOTALLY different!! Great amp. Not LP level, but very competent especially for its price bracket.


----------



## Wheel Hoss (Mar 1, 2019)

kumar402 said:


> Mojo with LP is very competent. The Bass and Mids are good and so is the imaging and soundstage.
> You won’t feel that you are missing a thing and this will only be dwarfed by very high end system and definitely not by Lyr3
> Also depends on the headphones you own. Schiit gears are bright in nature that’s their house signature.
> I own 800s and I can’t use it with schiit amp. I found the treble piercing. Haven’t heard Lyr3 though.



awesome. Welll I’ll be using this setup with my new Atticus when it arrives. Should balance out Zach’s brooding beast perfectly.

If I get an Ananda down the line the SS Mojo would probably sound divine with the planar. Don’t think LP/Ananda would be ideal but will try it

*****

Edit: Realized I should ask more about Line Out. 

1. What does it do?
2. Why would I set it to 2V instead?
3. If I wanted to use the Mojo to connect to my Samsung E750BA Audio Dock through it’s 1/8” input, Line Out as well?

Appreciate the help


----------



## MikeW (Mar 1, 2019)

Wheel Hoss said:


> Thanks for all the feedback everyone. So do you find the Mojo is a good enough DAC for the LP (vs getting a dedicated DAC)? Part of issue for me is lack of space on desk. So either a LP with Mojo or Lyr 3 with built in DAC appeals to me over an LP with a Bitfrost. They aren’t same size and wouldn’t stack from the looks of it and would take up tons of space.



Monitor riser's on amazon are about 15 bucks... mine was 30 but it's a dually. @Zachit I'd never call Jotunheim cold and clinical, it's a pretty warm amp overall, but the treble is slightly hot, works with HD650 but could be a problem for others. I can't recommend the Jotunheim integrated dac though, I owned the Multibit Module and the Gen1 balanced, I hear the Gen2 balanced is the best, but I was never impressed with the performance of the DAC. The ADI-2 is a way better AIO, albeit at much higher cost. LP will take the best dac you can throw at it.. it's got ton's of resolution and fine details. I recently listened to it with Iphone, PC Realtek 1150, Jotunheim balanced pre-out with multibit module, and an older tda1543x8 dac I had laying around. LP really shows the source alot and I could very easily hear differences between all of the above. And i'd rank them as follows

Iphone SE
PC Realtek 1150
.
TDA1543-X8 NOS (Teradak)
.
Jotunheim Multibit Balanced Pre-Out
.
.
.
Bimby Gen5
.
.
.
ADI-2 Dac


----------



## Zachik

MikeW said:


> Monitor riser's on amazon are about 15 bucks... mine was 30 but it's a dually. @Zachit I'd never call Jotunheim cold and clinical, it's a pretty warm amp overall, but the treble is slightly hot, works with HD650 but could be a problem for others. I can't recommend the Jotunheim integrated dac though, I owned the Multibit Module and the Gen1 balanced, I hear the Gen2 balanced is the best, but I was never impressed with the performance of the DAC. The ADI-2 is a way better AIO, albeit at much higher cost. LP will take the best dac you can throw at it.. it's got ton's of resolution and fine details. I recently listened to it with Iphone, PC Realtek 1150, Jotunheim balanced pre-out with multibit module, and an older tda1543x8 dac I had laying around. LP really shows the source alot and I could very easily hear differences between all of the above. And i'd rank them as follows
> 
> Iphone SE
> PC Realtek 1150
> ...


Nice monitor riser!! Can you share the link for it?


----------



## MikeW (Mar 1, 2019)

Zachik said:


> Nice monitor riser!! Can you share the link for it?



It's a little bigger then i'd like, but it's very sturdy, and heavy, well made, affordable, black, and the vented design helps keep LP cool.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FN556G3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I really liked this one too, honorable mention:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076GZH1R...d_r=415dc691-3bfd-11e9-8d8d-ff7b87c6b25c&th=1

It's really hard to find anything smaller. I looked. Alot


----------



## Wheel Hoss (Mar 1, 2019)

Ok. So I have a Clarett 2Pre USB. It has great A-D D-A software and can decode up to very high bitrates. Wondering if I can use it as a DAC for the LP until I get a Gumby or something. This is what it says in the manual:

"LINE OUTPUTS 1 to 4 – four balanced analogue line outputs on 1⁄4” jack sockets; use TRS jacks for a balanced connection or TS jacks for unbalanced. Line Outputs 1 and 2 will generally be used for driving the main L and R speakers of your monitoring system, while Outputs 3 and 4can be used for connecting additional line level equipment (e.g., outboard FX processors). The signals routed to all the outputs may be defined in Focusrite Control."

Does this sound like it could work (in general and with Outputs 3/4 specifically I guess)? Or does the Line Out here not work like the Line Out for the Mojo (which I don't have yet )?


----------



## kumar402

MikeW said:


> Monitor riser's on amazon are about 15 bucks... mine was 30 but it's a dually. @Zachit I'd never call Jotunheim cold and clinical, it's a pretty warm amp overall, but the treble is slightly hot, works with HD650 but could be a problem for others. I can't recommend the Jotunheim integrated dac though, I owned the Multibit Module and the Gen1 balanced, I hear the Gen2 balanced is the best, but I was never impressed with the performance of the DAC. The ADI-2 is a way better AIO, albeit at much higher cost. LP will take the best dac you can throw at it.. it's got ton's of resolution and fine details. I recently listened to it with Iphone, PC Realtek 1150, Jotunheim balanced pre-out with multibit module, and an older tda1543x8 dac I had laying around. LP really shows the source alot and I could very easily hear differences between all of the above. And i'd rank them as follows
> 
> Iphone SE
> PC Realtek 1150
> ...


Looks nice

But doesnt it put strain on headphone wire.


----------



## Wheel Hoss

Also: I know this is a balanced amp. But if I'm not using a balanced DAC, do headphones benefit from using a balanced cable? Thanks!


----------



## Wes S

Wheel Hoss said:


> Also: I know this is a balanced amp. But if I'm not using a balanced DAC, do headphones benefit from using a balanced cable? Thanks!


Yes.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Yes.


Are the sonic improvements? Just tried single ended with my balanced dac and MJ2, good volume drop was result running SE vs balanced.


----------



## MikeW (Mar 1, 2019)

@kumar402  : no not really, there's no undue stress placed on the cable. XLR are very robust, but I wouldent be concerned with 1/4 trs either.
@Wheel Hoss : there is a power benefit to running the balanced headphone output, regardless of input source, in this case it's substantial.
@TK16: I have a truly balanced DAC, but im not sure im willing to even try and hear a difference between single ended and balanced, probably none but perhaps a slight theoretical benefit to balanced input. Slightly, likely inaudibly better SNR (maybe -3 or 4 db).
though it must be understood most/all balanced source output are higher voltage so a higher perceived volume at same position on volume dial. This will very easily make it appear to be a higher quality input method, but once volume matched will likely disappear entirely. I use the balanced out of my dac because it's there, and because it's technically the best. Though i've been tempted to switch to single ended because I also run a pair of JBL LSR305's out of the same DAC, and they seem to have more benefit to the balanced connection (eliminates a slight hum), though I decided to just ground lift them and continue on single ended.

Edit: it should also be noted, that some DAC's have a superior balanced output then their single ended. If your particularly DAC has a better balanced output stage, it will obviously make a much bigger difference then a DAC that has excellent single ended and balanced output. With regards to said DAC's that DO have a better balanced output, it's not so much that their balanced is better, but that their single ended is lacking. This is a complicated topic with many considerations, so the story continues, some cheap pro interfaces, and cheaper balanced implementations (aka THX789) are not even balanced, but just accept balanced signal and convert it to single ended internally. If you have a DAC like this, there is likely zero benefit and more probable degradation in sound quality to use balanced. Keep in mind the original purpose of balanced gear was simply to eliminate hum and noise on extremely long cable runs 100, 200 FT runs. It was only adopted by headphone community to extract that last 2% of quality, we are talking tiny gains of 1-5 DB of better SNR. However, most headphone amplifier that implement balanced do so to the "Detriment" of their single ended output. Because the way balanced circuit works  you basically need 2 of everything, 1 per channel in the analog amplification circuit, so easy solution for single ended output is to disable one side. Now you just cut the power output in half for SE. It is quite possible to design SE with huge power output though, like LYR3. 9 watt into 32 ohm.

It's a great time to be in the hobby, I remember when some of the first high end balanced headphone amps came out, before we were even using the 4 pin xlr standard. Some of headroom's end game gear put out like 1 watt, maybe 1.5 watts of power into balanced connection, and cost 3000$. Now a 100$ magni can put out more power then that, and likely sound as good or better doing it. Great times


----------



## TK16

MikeW said:


> @kumar402  : no not really, there's no undue stress placed on the cable. XLR are very robust, but I wouldent be concerned with 1/4 trs either.
> @Wheel Hoss : there is a power benefit to running the balanced headphone output, regardless of input source, in this case it's substantial.
> @TK16: I have a truly balanced DAC, but im not sure im willing to even try and hear a difference between single ended and balanced, probably none but perhaps a slight theoretical benefit to balanced input. Slightly, likely inaudibly better SNR (maybe -3 or 4 db).
> though it must be understood most/all balanced source output are higher voltage so a higher perceived volume at same position on volume dial. This will very easily make it appear to be a higher quality input method, but once volume matched will likely disappear entirely. I use the balanced out of my dac because it's there, and because it's technically the best. Though i've been tempted to switch to single ended because I also run a pair of JBL LSR305's out of the same DAC, and they seem to have more benefit to the balanced connection (eliminates a slight hum), though I decided to just ground lift them and continue on single ended.


Only tested my gear in SE mode briefly, the MJ2 was running SE I believe (lower volume), but you can still use balanced cable on the MJ2. Not going to do any comparisons between SE and balanced. Can the LP in single ended unbalanced mode use balanced headphone cables?


----------



## seamonster76

Just got my LP yesterday.

When I tired my iFi NOS 6922 (actually 5670), there's a very audible background noise, which did not happen with Schiit Mjolnir 2 before. I wonder if anybody else had tried that?


----------



## Wes S (Mar 1, 2019)

I am using the se input from dac, and balanced cable from output to Ori headphones.  Sounds great!


----------



## Zachik

Wes S said:


> I am using the se input from dac, and balanced cable from output to Ori headphones.  Sounds great!


Same here - SE input from DAC and balanced headphone out. Sounds great


----------



## MikeW (Mar 1, 2019)

As others have replied, the LP allows Single ended input and balanced output, and is an excellent way to run the amp. Gaining the benefits of the balanced output stage and ignoring the mostly academic benefit of balanced input. If running an amp like THX 789 (great amp btw) you'd definately want to use single ended, as that amp converts balanced to single ended internally yielding a technical (likely unaudible) reduction in sound quality.

Single ended to balanced is easy to do for engineer. Balanced to single ended is more complex and requires it's own circuit.


----------



## Rattle

MikeW said:


> It's a little bigger then i'd like, but it's very sturdy, and heavy, well made, affordable, black, and the vented design helps keep LP cool.
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FN556G3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> I really liked this one too, honorable mention:
> ...



That dual one looks great thanks for the pics with the gear on it .Been looking for something like this but didn't like many others .


----------



## lamaslamas

Thanks guys, I missed the comparison with the lyr.
What about the audio gd nfb1 amp?
It looks more powerful than the LP and the lyr, despite having less transparency maybe?


----------



## MikeW (Mar 1, 2019)

Never heard either, if I parrot a bit here, seems like everyone who's compared the LYR3 to LP, unanimously prefer the LP. Usually resulting in a Lyr 3 for sale. Im not to crazy about Chi-Fi gear, logistics and measurments. Without holding that against NFB1, I believe the LP is in a slightly higher class, closer to a master 9 then an NFB. Can't say that it best the Master 9, as that's a hell of a beast, an I have not heard it. Im not particularly attracted to Audio GD's "brute force" approach.. lots and lots of expensive components and complexity. I believe more in engineering and SMD components. They are big, heavy, hot and full of parts.. sometimes less is more.


----------



## Luckbad

lamaslamas said:


> Thanks guys, I missed the comparison with the lyr.
> What about the audio gd nfb1 amp?
> It looks more powerful than the LP and the lyr, despite having less transparency maybe?



There was a time when Audio-GD made good products at great prices. That time has long since passed. Their equipment is much more expensive than it used to be and the designs have stagnated. I'm saying this as someone who was once a pretty big Audio-GD fanboy. I've owned perhaps more than a dozen of their pieces of gear, including the Master-11 and the C-2 amp.

Unfortunately, Audio-GD is just a bad purchase these days. If you don't want to spend Liquid Platinum money, get a Massdrop Cavalli Tube Hybrid, Garage1217 Project Sunrise or Horizon, or Schiit product. Less expensive than the NFB-1Amp and better.


----------



## Wheel Hoss (Mar 1, 2019)

^^^^^

Your review makes it sound like the LP is a hybrid not a OTL. Care to explain:

http://www.basshead.club/monolith-cavalli-liquid-platinum-review/

“As a well-designed embedded hybrid amplifier, it delivers some of the best of both the tube and solid state worlds.”

For my upcoming Atticus, I really want that warm tube sound. Now you are scaring me off a bit!

“Beautifully neutral with a little touch of warmth. It’s open, sweet, and transparent.”

Only a little touch of warmth???


----------



## heliosphann

Wheel Hoss said:


> ^^^^^
> 
> Your review makes it sound like the LP is a hybrid not a OTL. Care to explain:
> 
> ...



Um, because the Liquid Platinum is a hybrid.


----------



## omniweltall

Luckbad said:


> There was a time when Audio-GD made good products at great prices. That time has long since passed. Their equipment is much more expensive than it used to be and the designs have stagnated. I'm saying this as someone who was once a pretty big Audio-GD fanboy. I've owned perhaps more than a dozen of their pieces of gear, including the Master-11 and the C-2 amp.
> 
> Unfortunately, Audio-GD is just a bad purchase these days. If you don't want to spend Liquid Platinum money, get a Massdrop Cavalli Tube Hybrid, Garage1217 Project Sunrise or Horizon, or Schiit product. Less expensive than the NFB-1Amp and better.


Cannot agree more. 

I remember Luckbad was a big AGD fan. So this is coming from a fan. 

Unlike luckbad, I used to like their amps, but never their dacs. But there are better choices these days.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Luckbad said:


> There was a time when Audio-GD made good products at great prices. That time has long since passed. Their equipment is much more expensive than it used to be and the designs have stagnated. I'm saying this as someone who was once a pretty big Audio-GD fanboy. I've owned perhaps more than a dozen of their pieces of gear, including the Master-11 and the C-2 amp.
> 
> Unfortunately, Audio-GD is just a bad purchase these days. If you don't want to spend Liquid Platinum money, get a Massdrop Cavalli Tube Hybrid, Garage1217 Project Sunrise or Horizon, or Schiit product. Less expensive than the NFB-1Amp and better.



I still have the old Master-11 Singularity as I love the old BB DAC. Rate it above a Hugo TT2 with M Scaler for my tastes  

I have just put in a pair of WE396A on the LP with adaptors from China after the Garage1217 ones turned out to be duds. The 396A were a bit noisy to start with, but the last I checked it was sounding a lot cleaner. Liking what I hear so far Vs my 6922 stash


----------



## TK16 (Mar 2, 2019)

Keep an eye out for noise on those WE 396A's. I got a pair that is noisy on the LP but fine on 2 Schiit amps and a dac. My other 2 pair are fine. Got a noisy set of TS 2C51, and CBS 5670. Had to switch 2 pairs of each to get 2 non noisy pairs. The 6N3P variant tends to be better with noise in the LP as it has a slightly lower amplification factor than 5670 family. ECC82's are a good choice with the low amplification factor 17. You can read about the noisy tubes in the LP tube rolling thread.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monoprice-liquid-platinum-tube-rollers.898852/


----------



## Wheel Hoss

I know everyone is acting like LP is a clear upgrade from Lyr. But I'm a little worried about some bullying of Schiit in this thread. These are Steve Guttenberg's thoughts on Lyr vs LP, and I tend to agree with almost everything he writes:

"The Lyr 2 was awfully good, the sound was palpable with terrific dimensionality, but it was no match for the Liquid Platinum's transparency. The Lyr 2 darkened treble detail, and dynamics were reduced, but the overall sound was still delicious with the Z1R. I'd call it a tie between these two amps."

And this is about the Lyr 2. I'm more into pleasure than detail. The idea of sacrificing some "dimensionality" for "transparency" is more of an audiophile preference than I usually go in for. Maybe LP is technically a "better" amp, but maybe Lyr is more my taste.

Any thoughts? Not really sure when I would have a chance to demo these amps, and I need to make a decision soon for my upcoming Atticus . . .

Thanks!!!


----------



## TK16 (Mar 2, 2019)

Wheel Hoss said:


> I know everyone is acting like LP is a clear upgrade from Lyr. But I'm a little worried about some bullying of Schiit in this thread. These are Steve Guttenberg's thoughts on Lyr vs LP, and I tend to agree with almost everything he writes:
> 
> "The Lyr 2 was awfully good, the sound was palpable with terrific dimensionality, but it was no match for the Liquid Platinum's transparency. The Lyr 2 darkened treble detail, and dynamics were reduced, but the overall sound was still delicious with the Z1R. I'd call it a tie between these two amps."
> 
> ...


I have the Lyr2, MJ2 and LP. I am terrible at explaining sonic differences, but the MJ2 and LP are significant upgrades over the Lyr2. That said the Lyr2 is still a great amp especially with excellent NOS tubes. It's no slouch. But I am running balanced and not using the Lyr2. The Lyr2 can also run more tubes than the LP, E180CC, the ECC81 series, 6N2P, 6CC41


----------



## Wes S (Mar 2, 2019)

Wheel Hoss said:


> I know everyone is acting like LP is a clear upgrade from Lyr. But I'm a little worried about some bullying of Schiit in this thread. These are Steve Guttenberg's thoughts on Lyr vs LP, and I tend to agree with almost everything he writes:
> 
> "The Lyr 2 was awfully good, the sound was palpable with terrific dimensionality, but it was no match for the Liquid Platinum's transparency. The Lyr 2 darkened treble detail, and dynamics were reduced, but the overall sound was still delicious with the Z1R. I'd call it a tie between these two amps."
> 
> ...


Crazy, that i just read this, after having a 2 hour session with my Lyr 3.  I had a freaking blast, and the whole time kept thinking to myself, how awesome this amp is.  Really fun sound, with just the right amount of detail and smooth.  I love my Lyr 3, just as much as my LP.  They are both great amps, and i think the Lyr 3 is more versatile and almost as good.  They compliment each other well.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

TK16 said:


> Keep an eye out for noise on those WE 396A's. I got a pair that is noisy on the LP but fine on 2 Schiit amps and a dac. My other 2 pair are fine. Got a noisy set of TS 2C51, and CBS 5670. Had to switch 2 pairs of each to get 2 non noisy pairs. The 6N3P variant tends to be better with noise in the LP as it has a slightly lower amplification factor than 5670 family. ECC82's are a good choice with the low amplification factor 17. You can read about the noisy tubes in the LP tube rolling thread.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monoprice-liquid-platinum-tube-rollers.898852/



I'm on my 3rd pair of WE396A. First pair was too noisy, second pair sounds OK, trying another set now from a later year, thin script on the glass. Have got 3 different pairs of adaptors, so far the best one is a black one from China. The garage1217 pair, one side just didn't work sadly.

I like the sound of the 396A in my XiangSheng DAC DA-05B which is hooked up to my gaming PC, tube RCA outputs to powered speakers. Hope to get a low noise pair in to see if I like them with my headphones.


----------



## Wes S

UsoppNoKami said:


> I'm on my 3rd pair of WE396A. First pair was too noisy, second pair sounds OK, trying another set now from a later year, thin script on the glass. Have got 3 different pairs of adaptors, so far the best one is a black one from China. The garage1217 pair, one side just didn't work sadly.
> 
> I like the sound of the 396A in my XiangSheng DAC DA-05B which is hooked up to my gaming PC, tube RCA outputs to powered speakers. Hope to get a low noise pair in to see if I like them with my headphones.


The WE396A glow.  I love how those tubes light up!


----------



## TK16

UsoppNoKami said:


> I'm on my 3rd pair of WE396A. First pair was too noisy, second pair sounds OK, trying another set now from a later year, thin script on the glass. Have got 3 different pairs of adaptors, so far the best one is a black one from China. The garage1217 pair, one side just didn't work sadly.
> 
> I like the sound of the 396A in my XiangSheng DAC DA-05B which is hooked up to my gaming PC, tube RCA outputs to powered speakers. Hope to get a low noise pair in to see if I like them with my headphones.


1 headfier in the LP rolling these had an experience just like you with the WE tubes. Not sure if I'm correct but the 2C51 family has a slightly higher amplification factor than 6922, 6N23P and 6N3P have roughly the same amplification factor or a little less, don't remember off hand. Think the high gain on the LP coupled with higher than 6922 variants gain may be the problem, this is no way confirmed just my opinion and may or may not be true. Maybe someone with better knowledge can explain it.


----------



## Phantaminum

Wheel Hoss said:


> I know everyone is acting like LP is a clear upgrade from Lyr. But I'm a little worried about some bullying of Schiit in this thread. These are Steve Guttenberg's thoughts on Lyr vs LP, and I tend to agree with almost everything he writes:
> 
> "The Lyr 2 was awfully good, the sound was palpable with terrific dimensionality, but it was no match for the Liquid Platinum's transparency. The Lyr 2 darkened treble detail, and dynamics were reduced, but the overall sound was still delicious with the Z1R. I'd call it a tie between these two amps."
> 
> ...



Think of it as a holistic combination of your equipment and headphones. If you have a single ended DAC, you can pass up the Liquid Platinum and go with an amp that's single ended. I was really surprised how well the HD650 sounded out of the MCTH and was even more surprised how well it paired with the Atticus. The MCTH falls a on the brighter side with the default tube and pairs well with the Atticus' darker nature. That's a cheap $250 amp that has great synergy with those headphones. If you're looking to add planars in the future then you can pick between the Lyr 2 or Lyr 3. I'd also point out that the Atticus is bit picky with the amp pairing. I had to roll several days worth of tubes on the Mjolnir 2 until I found the right pair that brought out what the headphone could do. 

If you have a balanced DAC and are thinking about adding planars to your stable then the LP is a good buy. A DAC like the Gugnir Multibit sounds better out of the balanced outputs compared to the single end outputs. 

Really, any of these amps are a good buy and you're able to roll tubes to change the sound to taste. It depends what you're willing to spend and what equipment you currently own.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> The WE396A glow.  I love how those tubes light up!


They are like 2 night lights, brightest shining tubes I ever used. Really breathtaking in dark room. Have you tried any of them in the 
LP to test for noise?


----------



## Wheel Hoss (Mar 2, 2019)

Thanks for all the feedback!!!

So I have the Clarett, and _technically _it is balanced. I’m not sure it has that great a DAC, but I can use it until I get a dedicated headphone DAC.

Wes, I kind of hate you. Because you are really making me want both!!! Oh well. The joys (and pain) of being a burgeoning audiophile.

And Phant, CTH does seem to have some magic synergy with Atty from all accounts. Probably the light/dark combo. But I _am _planning on picking up an Ananda down the line, so Lyr appeals for its versatility.

Basically, I need all 3. Oy.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Wheel Hoss said:


> What kind of headphones would be too sensitive?


I have very little useable range on the volume with my Utopia when I take my preamp out of the chain (DAC ==> LP ==> Utopia).  ‘All the way down’ is like 7:00, and 9:00 is close to unlistenably loud.

I’ve got a passive preamp inbound as I noticed some coloration with my active preamp. Didn’t mind it with my SS amps, but dislike it with the LP.


----------



## Wheel Hoss

What kind of TRS cables do you guys use to connect to DACs?

I use Mogami Gold for my XLR mics. They are excellent but I wonder if I need to spend $50 a pop on cables for my headphone amp. I’m sure people spend tons more. But I’m an artist so I’m not overly liquid.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> They are like 2 night lights, brightest shining tubes I ever used. Really breathtaking in dark room. Have you tried any of them in the
> LP to test for noise?


I have not tested anything with adapters yet in LP, because i dont plan on taking out the Brimar CV2492, anytime soon.  That tube is it for me.


----------



## Luckbad

Wheel Hoss said:


> What kind of TRS cables do you guys use to connect to DACs?
> 
> I use Mogami Gold for my XLR mics. They are excellent but I wonder if I need to spend $50 a pop on cables for my headphone amp. I’m sure people spend tons more. But I’m an artist so I’m not overly liquid.


You really don't need exotic cables. It's a final frontier type upgrade (usually just a sidegrade) that is pointlessly expensive until your entire system is high end and dialed in. If you can't make your own cables, just get something Blue Jeans Cables or if you have a pair of those Mogamis at the same length, use those. Most of my (custom built) cables are just Mogami Neglex with Neutrik XLR. I stopped myself at Gotham Audio cables (great and not terribly expensive)  with KLE adapters.

https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/balancedaudio/index.htm
http://www.gothamaudiousa.com/cableassemblies.htm


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> I have not tested anything with adapters yet in LP, because i dont plan on taking out the Brimar CV2492, anytime soon.  That tube is it for me.


They are really good tubes, they made the cut when I sold most of my 6922 and variants. They sound great in my dac.


----------



## VintageAudio

Received my Cavalli Liquid Platinum last night and was eager to test with my HiFiMan Susvara.

Unfortunately not a better pairing than just driving my Susvara from the speaker taps of my Nad BEE 316c.

Susvara requires too much juice.  I was using single ended input from my macbook headphone jack (don’t try to shame me - RME ADI-2 is otw)

Balanced out to Susvara.  Have to set the volume of LP to 12 to 2 to get a reasonable listening level, but it crisp, clean and too lean.  Much too bright to turn vol up more to add more meat.

The NAD is tad warmer, smoother but just as clean with more meat.

For me to get the headphone amping I want, I’d need to spend big bucks on somethinf like a luxman p-750.

Much better value in using a vintage marantz and drive susvara from speaker taps.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

TK16 said:


> 1 headfier in the LP rolling these had an experience just like you with the WE tubes. Not sure if I'm correct but the 2C51 family has a slightly higher amplification factor than 6922, 6N23P and 6N3P have roughly the same amplification factor or a little less, don't remember off hand. Think the high gain on the LP coupled with higher than 6922 variants gain may be the problem, this is no way confirmed just my opinion and may or may not be true. Maybe someone with better knowledge can explain it.



Well, looks like pair #2 makes the cut. Third set of 396A was just as noisy as the first. This pair, I can pause music and crank volume to max without hearing any noise whatsoever. 


 

Square getter, same batch with date code 5839


----------



## TK16

UsoppNoKami said:


> Well, looks like pair #2 makes the cut. Third set of 396A was just as noisy as the first. This pair, I can pause music and crank volume to max without hearing any noise whatsoever.
> 
> 
> 
> Square getter, same batch with date code 5839


Glad that worked out, my noisy pair is excellent testing 1948/1949 that I used for hundreds of hours in my Lyr2, MJ2, and dac without issue. Think your noisy pairs would of been fine in a different amp.


----------



## Zachik

Wes S said:


> Crazy, that i just read this, after having a 2 hour session with my Lyr 3.  I had a freaking blast, and the whole time kept thinking to myself, how awesome this amp is.  Really fun sound, with just the right amount of detail and smooth.  I love my Lyr 3, just as much as my LP.  They are both great amps, and i think the Lyr 3 is more versatile and almost as good.  They compliment each other well.


I agree that Lyr 3 is really good. I do feel like LP is a step up.
Since I really love both - I am keeping both!


----------



## Zachik

TK16 said:


> *1 headfier in the LP rolling these had an experience just like you with the WE tubes*. Not sure if I'm correct but the 2C51 family has a slightly higher amplification factor than 6922, 6N23P and 6N3P have roughly the same amplification factor or a little less, don't remember off hand. Think the high gain on the LP coupled with higher than 6922 variants gain may be the problem, this is no way confirmed just my opinion and may or may not be true. Maybe someone with better knowledge can explain it.


I think @TK16 is referring to me... I bought a pair that tests really good from a very reputable eBay seller, and 1 channel was VERY noisy.
Long story short, the seller sent me 2 additional tubes, and of the 4 - I managed to create 1 pair that is very quiet. I am happy with my WE396A pair


----------



## TK16

Zachik said:


> I think @TK16 is referring to me... I bought a pair that tests really good from a very reputable eBay seller, and 1 channel was VERY noisy.
> Long story short, the seller sent me 2 additional tubes, and of the 4 - I managed to create 1 pair that is very quiet. I am happy with my WE396A pair


Did you have to send the others back? He is a great seller.


----------



## Zachik

TK16 said:


> Did you have to send the others back? He is a great seller.


Yes, I already shipped the "extra" 2 back. 
My only regret is that I never tried the noisy ones on my CTH. I wonder how sensitive CTH to noisy WE396A is... oh well - I am very happy, and the seller is absolutely great!!


----------



## Luckbad (Mar 2, 2019)

VintageAudio said:


> Received my Cavalli Liquid Platinum last night and was eager to test with my HiFiMan Susvara.
> 
> Unfortunately not a better pairing than just driving my Susvara from the speaker taps of my Nad BEE 316c.
> 
> ...



The Liquid Platinum is very revealing of your source. Your source is terrible.

To properly drive that $6000 pair of headphones, be prepared to spend as much on your amp and dac combo. Most people with those cans probably have closer to 5 figures into their amp and dac (or turntable).


----------



## atomicbob

Wes S said:


> Crazy, that i just read this, after having a 2 hour session with my Lyr 3.  I had a freaking blast, and the whole time kept thinking to myself, how awesome this amp is.  Really fun sound, with just the right amount of detail and smooth.  I love my Lyr 3, just as much as my LP.  They are both great amps, and i think the Lyr 3 is more versatile and almost as good.  They compliment each other well.


This is the point to which I have arrived. Add to the mix ECP Audio DSHA-3F and I have my Tres Amigos. Three complimentary amps each offering auditory delights with three distinct presentations.



Wheel Hoss said:


> What kind of TRS cables do you guys use to connect to DACs?
> 
> I use Mogami Gold for my XLR mics. They are excellent but I wonder if I need to spend $50 a pop on cables for my headphone amp. I’m sure people spend tons more. But I’m an artist so I’m not overly liquid.


Balanced I use Belden 1800F digital audio cable with Neutrik connectors as found at Markertek. Bell Labs determined many years ago that baseband audio is best transported with 90 ohm cable. Digital audio cable is 110 ohms. My own measurements using a pulse generator and high speed 16 bit oscilloscope have demonstrated to me how well audio transients are preserved by Belden 1800F. About $46/pair for Sescom at Markertek for 1 foot:
https://www.markertek.com/product/1800f-xmf-1/belden-high-flex-aes-ebu-xlr-cable-1-foot-black

Unblanced I have settled on AudioBlast HQ-1 with Rean RCA connectors, about $15/pair on Amazon. 
https://www.amazon.com/AUDIOBLAST-F...07CVWDTNR/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8



Luckbad said:


> The Liquid Platinum is very revealing of your source. Your source is terrible.


 Exactly. Let me repeat @Luckbad . Liquid Platinum is very revealing of the source. It is my first pick headphone amp for source evaluations / comparisons.


----------



## VintageAudio

It's definitely revealing.  It spares no bad recording.  After some further testing today, I still find it a little bright and wish it left me more headroom.  I'll probably hang on to it until my RME ADI-2 DAC arrives and see how they work together.


----------



## kumar402

VintageAudio said:


> Received my Cavalli Liquid Platinum last night and was eager to test with my HiFiMan Susvara.
> 
> Unfortunately not a better pairing than just driving my Susvara from the speaker taps of my Nad BEE 316c.
> 
> ...


You may want to try HeadAmp GSX mini when they launch. They had the amp with Susvara to demonstrate the amp power in CANJAM NY and I found the pairing very good.


----------



## Wes S

VintageAudio said:


> It's definitely revealing.  It spares no bad recording.  After some further testing today, I still find it a little bright and wish it left me more headroom.  I'll probably hang on to it until my RME ADI-2 DAC arrives and see how they work together.


Could not hurt, to roll a warmer tube, buy not sure that will get you all the way, where you want to be.


----------



## heliosphann

Ah... Returned to it's rightful place. Welcome back friend.


----------



## Wes S

heliosphann said:


> Ah... Returned to it's rightful place. Welcome back friend.


Wow!  Man you have got some amps!


----------



## heliosphann

Wes S said:


> Wow!  Man you have got some amps!



 Yea, tell me about it. Pretty soon though most will be leaving. What makes the cut is going to be the hard part.


----------



## Phantaminum

heliosphann said:


> Yea, tell me about it. Pretty soon though most will be leaving. What makes the cut is going to be the hard part.



I can tell right off the bat the Crimson will be the first to go. You have the Milo and other beautiful amps. I guess if I have to I'll buy it off you. 

The things I do for other head-fiers...


----------



## heliosphann

Phantaminum said:


> I can tell right off the bat the Crimson will be the first to go. You have the Milo and other beautiful amps. I guess if I have to I'll buy it off you.
> 
> The things I do for other head-fiers...



Wow, such a generous guy!

I did have a chance to do some ABing of the Crimson and Liquid Platinum today. While the Crimson is definitely the better amp in almost every aspect, the LP is not that far off. Considering it's reduced size, better rolling options and cost, the LP is possibly the best bang for your buck amp on the market.


----------



## omniweltall

heliosphann said:


> Ah... Returned to it's rightful place. Welcome back friend.


Congrats mate!


----------



## Luckbad

heliosphann said:


> Ah... Returned to it's rightful place. Welcome back friend.



Tell me if you sell it. I miss mine. After going through hell to get one (including getting a bunch of money stolen), I ended up selling mine when my old car died. Wish I'd just eaten the cost and kept it forever.


----------



## Wes S

I am here to report another great pairing.

I feel like i finally heard, what my Alpha Prime are supposed to sound like!  I have been using my Ori, since the begining, and have been loving it.  However, i have to say, the A.Prime scale as goood or better.  I was hearing sounds dancing around my head, with the most 3 d like effect and largest stage I have ever encountered yet.  At one point, i stood up and had to sit back down, because i got dizzy.  I literally felt like i was on stage.  The tone is hauntingly lifelike.  The Alpha Prime are still a magical headphone and the LP with Brimar tubes, really makes them sing.


----------



## llcook51

omniweltall said:


> Congrats mate!


Home is where the heat and "ears" are.


----------



## llcook51

llcook51 said:


> Home is where the heat and "ears" are.


I meant: Home is where the heart and "ears" are.


----------



## heliosphann (Mar 5, 2019)

llcook51 said:


> I meant: Home is where the heart and "ears" are.



Actually your first statement was pretty true considering how cold it was today! Now that I'm home I can warm up from the heat of the Crimson.


----------



## MikeW (Mar 6, 2019)

There has been no hate for Schiit Lyr's in this thread. Lyr 3's an excellent, well loved, and versatile amp, with great build quality, great warranty. If it's like other schiit amp's it's likely a bit more forward and intimate then the LP, and probably a bit less refined. I've never heard it though. I did previously own Jotunheim, so im familiar with schiit's sound, I was ready to try a different flavor. Though, i'll say Wes is one of the only people i've seen comment that had both LP and LYR3 side by side and decided to keep both units, usually the Lyr 3's gone. But he also  has like 10 pair of Amperex 7308, I think he likes to keep his gear around awhile.

Steve's review was also done with the stock tubes so keep that in mind. His comments would be very different with some of the NOS offering's around here.

There is no need for a balanced DAC for Liquid Platinum, so  the suggestion that one is required or even necessary is flat wrong, not sure where that information is coming from. I run mine balanced, but you don't need balanced input to use the balanced output and enjoy all the amp has to offer. I do consider dac's that have significantly better balanced output then their single output to be lacking in this regard. It's not that their balanced out is great, it's that their SE out sucks. Schiit should probably work on that, as other DAC"s achieve parity between these connections. The Single ended and Balanced out of the RME-2 is both excellent and you'd be hard pressed to spot the difference, this is how it should be. Don't gimp one to make the other look better...

I use pro interconnects and connectors, that means either Canare, Belden or Mogami with Neutrik. I've compared them to lower priced options and just don't like the quality of the connectors and wire on most cheap 5-8$ xlr's.. I used to build the cables myself, but I don't bother anymore as there are many sources to get them very cheap and high quality, like Markertek and Ebay.. I just bought a pair of 1 FT Neutrik/Mogami interconects off ebay for 17$ each.. 34$ for the pair. Much cheaper then the Mogami Gold branded ones for the exact same product, which run about 38$ EACH. I could build the cables for about 7 bucks or so, but im not sure it's worth pulling my tools out and even heating the iron for 10 bucks savings. There are many ebay sellers that sell the cables in whatever length you want. Blue Jeans is kind of expensive, compared to say, markertek or ebay. I did buy some monoprice XLR's first and was very  disapointed in the quality compared to DIY pro cables. Such a nice an expensive amp, i'd feel dirty using anything less then pro interconnects.


----------



## Wes S (Mar 6, 2019)

MikeW said:


> There has been no hate for Schiit Lyr's in this thread. Lyr 3's an excellent, well loved, and versatile amp, with great build quality, great warranty. If it's like other schiit amp's it's likely a bit more forward and intimate then the LP, and probably a bit less refined. I've never heard it though. I did previously own Jotunheim, so im familiar with schiit's sound, I was ready to try a different flavor. Though, i'll say Wes is one of the only people i've seen comment that had both LP and LYR3 side by side and decided to keep both units, usually the Lyr 3's gone. But he also  has like 10 pair of Amperex 7308, I think he likes to keep his gear around awhile.
> 
> Steve's review was also done with the stock tubes so keep that in mind. His comments would be very different with some of the NOS offering's around here.
> 
> ...


Lyr 3 is not a forward sounding amp at all and i am not the only one to own both and keep them.  I hang on to gear that is good, and that i use and enjoy, and that has nothing to do with me owning 10 pairs of good tubes.  Lyr 3 is good and so is the LP!


----------



## Wes S (Mar 6, 2019)

Also @MikeW i own 10 pairs of tubes, and have kept that pair of tubes, that is now worth double, what i paid for them.  I think of tubes as investments.  Amps not so much.  Also,  please refrain from makimg assumptioms about me and amps you have not heard.  Thanks!


----------



## MikeW

Well, sounds like a good idea. They aren’t making anymore vintage tubes so they will certainly rise in value. Probably more predictable then the stock market. 

Apologies for being so off on my impressions of LYR 3. Like I said I’ve never heard it. Should not have commented. I see zachit and atomic
Bob also own both amps so looks like I’m wrong in that regard as well. I had a hard time choosing between them myself, might have to audition a LYR 3 soon.


----------



## llcook51

MikeW said:


> There has been no hate for Schiit Lyr's in this thread. Lyr 3's an excellent, well loved, and versatile amp, with great build quality, great warranty. If it's like other schiit amp's it's likely a bit more forward and intimate then the LP, and probably a bit less refined. I've never heard it though. I did previously own Jotunheim, so im familiar with schiit's sound, I was ready to try a different flavor. Though, i'll say Wes is one of the only people i've seen comment that had both LP and LYR3 side by side and decided to keep both units, usually the Lyr 3's gone. But he also  has like 10 pair of Amperex 7308, I think he likes to keep his gear around awhile.
> 
> Steve's review was also done with the stock tubes so keep that in mind. His comments would be very different with some of the NOS offering's around here.
> 
> ...


I agree that the Schiit products and service are top-notch. I still have the Jotunheim and use it from time-to-time for a different "flavor."


----------



## lukeslens

MikeW said:


> There is no need for a balanced DAC for Liquid Platinum, so the suggestion that one is required or even necessary is flat wrong


That's actually really interesting to hear. And good, too, because though I've been loving the RME ADI-2 I still haven't ruled out upgrading to a Qutest and I was worried that not having the balanced out would affect the chain going to a Liquid Platinum. I wasn't sure if I was going to get a sonic improvement by using the balanced ins on the amp versus the unbalanced, considering how many people have mentioned that the single-ended output on the amp is so inferior.


----------



## toobuzz

I received my replacement LP yesterday.  However, the light never turns white.  I tried multiple tubes as well as plugging it directly into the wall (instead of a power re-generator).  Is there anything that we can do to troubleshoot this or is this one going back to Monoprice also?


----------



## TK16 (Mar 6, 2019)

toobuzz said:


> I received my replacement LP yesterday.  However, the light never turns white.  I tried multiple tubes as well as plugging it directly into the wall (instead of a power re-generator).  Is there anything that we can do to troubleshoot this or is this one going back to Monoprice also?


You try reseating the tubes?
Never mind above, which tubes were you using?


----------



## toobuzz

TK16 said:


> You try reseating the tubes?
> Never mind above, which tubes were you using?



I was using the stock tubes (reseated a few times) and also MATSUSHITA / NATIONAL PCC88 / 7DJ8, which worked fine with my first unit.


----------



## TK16

toobuzz said:


> I was using the stock tubes (reseated a few times) and also MATSU****A / NATIONAL PCC88 / 7DJ8, which worked fine with my first unit.


You got someone close by that can test the tubes in an amp or tube tester?


----------



## toobuzz

TK16 said:


> You got someone close by that can test the tubes in an amp or tube tester?



I just received a pair of 1968 Amperex 7308s from Brent Jesse which were supposedly tested a few days ago, but I'm afraid to put those in!  I mean what are the chances that my National tube went bad in the last week AND the stock tubes are defective?  Appreciate the responses!


----------



## TK16

toobuzz said:


> I just received a pair of 1968 Amperex 7308s from Brent Jesse which were supposedly tested a few days ago, but I'm afraid to put those in!  I mean what are the chances that my National tube went bad in the last week AND the stock tubes are defective?  Appreciate the responses!


Extremely small IMO unless your prior amp took them out maybe?, what tubes were you using before the RMA? Why RMA?


----------



## Wes S

Curious what went wrong the first time?  Could it be the same thing?


----------



## TK16

I hear of people with shorted tubes taking out Schiit amps. Think they blow the fuse on them.


----------



## toobuzz

TK16 said:


> I hear of people with shorted tubes taking out Schiit amps. Think they blow the fuse on them.



So, I had a channel imbalance (very obvious) until around 8 o'clock on the pot.  I went ahead and got an RMA approved.  I didn't send the unit in right away, because I didn't want to the a PITA about it.  I wanted to see if I could live with the imbalance issue.  Then they went out of stock and I figured I'd keep waiting.  All this time (2 months) I rotated my 3 sets of 6922s.  I had a Lyr2 back in the day and found great tube suggestions from the Lyr Tube Rollers thread.  I used:

stock EH tubes
National PCC88
6N23P Voskhod 1978 Silver Shields (these were amazing!)

I never had an issue with any of these tubes until last week.  I'm 99% sure that it happened overnight with the amp off, but one of the Voskhod tubes exploded at the bottom and glass was all stuck inside the LP.  I finally sent it back under my original RMA.  Since MP was been out of stock I assumed that I'd be waiting a while.  So, I began watching you guys chat it up on the LP tube thread and started looking for a new set of tubes to replace my beloved Voskhod 1978s.  I was shocked to see the FedEx shipping notification for the replacement as I didn't expect it until mid-April.

Anyway, the replacement arrived yesterday and it seems to be DOA.


----------



## kumar402

toobuzz said:


> So, I had a channel imbalance (very obvious) until around 8 o'clock on the pot.  I went ahead and got an RMA approved.  I didn't send the unit in right away, because I didn't want to the a PITA about it.  I wanted to see if I could live with the imbalance issue.  Then they went out of stock and I figured I'd keep waiting.  All this time (2 months) I rotated my 3 sets of 6922s.  I had a Lyr2 back in the day and found great tube suggestions from the Lyr Tube Rollers thread.  I used:
> 
> stock EH tubes
> National PCC88
> ...


I too have imbalance at very low volume. But I thought since it is out of stock so I should wait till new stock.
I feel little imbalance at higher volume as well. Not sure about that though it may be my mind playing trickery. Its  very minute even if there is. But it’s definitley there at low volume. Come April I too have to get replacement unit it seems.


----------



## TK16

kumar402 said:


> I too have imbalance at very low volume. But I thought since it is out of stock so I should wait till new stock.
> I feel little imbalance at higher volume as well. Not sure about that though it may be my mind playing trickery. Its  very minute even if there is. But it’s definitley there at low volume. Come April I too have to get replacement unit it seems.


Is that with more than 1 pair of tubes, if it's 1 pair you might have an gain mismatch on the pair of tubes. More that 1 pair I think it may be the amp.


----------



## Wes S (Mar 6, 2019)

kumar402 said:


> I too have imbalance at very low volume. But I thought since it is out of stock so I should wait till new stock.
> I feel little imbalance at higher volume as well. Not sure about that though it may be my mind playing trickery. Its  very minute even if there is. But it’s definitley there at low volume. Come April I too have to get replacement unit it seems.


I too have pretty much the exact same channel imbalance and thought it was normal.  I thougt it might just be more noticeable on this amp with the high gain, vs my other amps?  My channel imbalance ends right around 8 as well.  Should i send my unit back in?  Anybody else?


----------



## kumar402

TK16 said:


> Is that with more than 1 pair of tubes, if it's 1 pair you might have an gain mismatch on the pair of tubes. More that 1 pair I think it may be the amp.


Ya I checked with multiple tubes and the imbalance stays. But it’s at very low volume I guess till 8 and once it goes to the level I listen to its not there. Sometimes I feel it’s there but like I said it may be my mind playing trickery. Should try some mono recordings.


----------



## toobuzz

Wes S said:


> I too have pretty much the exact same channel imbalance and thought it was normal.  I thougt it might just be more noticeable on this amp with the high gain, vs my other amps?  My channel imbalance ends right around 8 as well.  Should i send my unit back in?  Anybody else?



Don't send it back.  You love the thing, right?  I wish that I would have held on to my first one.


----------



## kumar402

Wes S said:


> I too have pretty much the exact same channel imbalance and thought it was normal.  I thougt it might just be more noticeable on this amp with the high gain, vs my other amps?  My channel imbalance ends right around 8 as well.  Should i send my unit back in?  Anybody else?


I also thought it is one of those shortcomings of the amp and everyone has it.
But then I saw the post on RMA for channel imbalance below 8.


----------



## toobuzz

kumar402 said:


> I also thought it is one of those shortcomings of the amp and everyone has it.
> But then I saw the post on RMA for channel imbalance below 8.



Correct, the imbalance is an accepted shortcoming.  I should have just held onto mine.


----------



## Wes S

kumar402 said:


> I also thought it is one of those shortcomings of the amp and everyone has it.
> But then I saw the post on RMA for channel imbalance below 8.


Me too.  It freaked me out at first, thinking i have an RMA able unit, but i just fired it up, and the imbalance stops more around 7:30.  I can live with that.


----------



## Wes S (Mar 6, 2019)

toobuzz said:


> Don't send it back.  You love the thing, right?  I wish that I would have held on to my first one.


I am good now and i do absolutely love it. Thanks for walking me back off the ledge!  Back to the music. . .


----------



## Cho Worsh (Jun 8, 2019)

Wheel Hoss said:


> Also: I know this is a balanced amp. But if I'm not using a balanced DAC, do headphones benefit from using a balanced cable? Thanks!



Yes, very much so. No affiliation, but suggest lqi UP-OCC cables on ebay, two versions, 30 day return policy if you do not like. Minimum 80 hours break-in. Delivered very soon after you order, no long wait times. 

If you are on a budget and handy with a soldering iron, Canare L-4E5C or L-4E6S or Cardas 4x24 cable (much more expensive than Canare) with a Neutrik 4 pin XLR is suggested. Cardas Gravedigger is also made with the 4x24 cable and is sold on ebay by Corpse Cable if you are not a DIY person.


----------



## TK16 (Mar 6, 2019)

I tried some mono audio, slight channel imbalance at very low volume. Left channel is slightly higher til around 7:30 maybe 745. You can really notice it going to no volume and increasing and decreasing. No imbalance I can hear after that. Mono audio really help noticing.

Using my Nobsound NS 05P you can set the amp where you want volume wise and and turn the Nobsound or whatever your using for very low vole with no imbalance.
Think I am going to start looking at better attenuaters


----------



## kumar402

TK16 said:


> I tried some mono audio, slight channel imbalance at very low volume. Left channel is slightly higher til around 7:30 maybe 745. You can really notice it going to no volume and increasing and decreasing. No imbalance I can hear after that. Mono audio really help noticing.
> 
> Using my Nobsound NS 05P you can set the amp where you want volume wise and and turn the Nobsound or whatever your using for very low vole with no imbalance.
> Think I am going to start looking at better attenuaters


Yes, I had similar findings. I guess it is inherent vice of this amp and I guess we can live with it. No one is going to listen to it below 7:30.


----------



## Mr Trev

Just want to chime in about the low volume channel imbalance…

That is pretty much unavoidable when using an analogue pot.
I don't actually have a LP, but my Vali2, Little Bear P1, and Fiio e12a all do it and it's been confirmed with those amps that it is expected behaviour. Some pots are more obvious than others, and it also depends how hard your headphones are to drive (if you need to turn the volume up higher to get a comfortable listening volume you may never notice the imbalance)


----------



## atomicbob

Mr Trev said:


> Just want to chime in about the low volume channel imbalance…
> 
> That is pretty much unavoidable when using an analogue pot.
> I don't actually have a LP, but my Vali2, Little Bear P1, and Fiio e12a all do it and it's been confirmed with those amps that it is expected behaviour. Some pots are more obvious than others, and it also depends how hard your headphones are to drive (if you need to turn the volume up higher to get a comfortable listening volume you may never notice the imbalance)


As @Mr Trev states, this is an issue with ALL potentiometers, all amps, more or less at the counterclockwise extreme. Alps too. Solutions are costly, from sorting pots, exceptionally tight mfg specs, or stepped attenuators with precision film resistors. I use a GoldPoint SA2X and set the LP pot for unity gain of the LP, which is around 1 to 2 o'clock. You can see the gain linearity issues in this post:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/gol...-technical-measurements.899382/#post-14761028


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## Luckbad (Mar 7, 2019)

Channel imbalance exists in every single amplifier with standard style (smallish) volume potentiometers. Most don't equal out until right around 9 o'clock. The better ones match closer to 8 o'clock. Edit: Sorry, restated the above because I didn't realize there was an additional page.


----------



## Wes S (Mar 7, 2019)

Does anyone know, if I can use the Sys in reverse and still use the volume to attenuate my dac signal? I have my mimby, hooked up to the output, and then my LP amp and Lyr 3 amp, connected to each input. I have the volume on the Sys all the way up, and can switch between amps, with the push of a botton, however, with my Liquid Platinum amp, I want more control on the volume to get past the channel imbalance, and was hoping I could just turn the SYS volume down to about 3 o clock, with it hooked up in reverse? Will this work with the Sys in reverse? and can I hurt anything doing this?


----------



## Coolblue (Mar 7, 2019)

Yes, it works in reverse too with volume control.
If you want it to act as a pure switcher in reverse, just max the vol.



Wes S said:


> Does anyone know, if I can use the Sys in reverse and still use the volume to attenuate my dac signal? I have my mimby, hooked up to the output, and then my LP amp and Lyr 3 amp, connected to each input. I have the volume on the Sys all the way up, and can switch between amps, with the push of a botton, however, with my Liquid Platinum amp, I want more control on the volume to get past the channel imbalance, and was hoping I could just turn the SYS volume down to about 3 o clock, with it hooked up in reverse? Will this work with the Sys in reverse? and can I hurt anything doing this?


----------



## jb77

Wes S said:


> I am here to report another great pairing.
> 
> I feel like i finally heard, what my Alpha Prime are supposed to sound like!  I have been using my Ori, since the begining, and have been loving it.  However, i have to say, the A.Prime scale as goood or better.  I was hearing sounds dancing around my head, with the most 3 d like effect and largest stage I have ever encountered yet.  At one point, i stood up and had to sit back down, because i got dizzy.  I literally felt like i was on stage.  The tone is hauntingly lifelike.  The Alpha Prime are still a magical headphone and the LP with Brimar tubes, really makes them sing.




Great to hear! Really looking forward to rolling my Brimar’s, Amperex 7308’s up first though, rolling those tonight


----------



## TK16 (Mar 8, 2019)

jb77 said:


> Great to hear! Really looking forward to rolling my Brimar’s, Amperex 7308’s up first though, rolling those tonight


They will be a huge upgrade to what you have, but once you get those other tubes....
Share your impressions of the 7308.
You should try the RCA clear tops ECC82, and 50's. RCA black plates ECC82. They go quite cheap on eBay and are darn good for the money. If you need help picking PM me.


----------



## Wes S

Kind of interested in other tubes like 12au7, however my thinking is that Dr. Cavalli designed this amp with 6922, and he is super super smart.  I feel like i would be doing an injustice to the design of the amp, by using a tube that was not part of the design, but that is just me.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Kind of interested in other tubes like 12au7, however my thinking is that Dr. Cavalli designed this amp with 6922, and he is super super smart.  I feel like i would be doing an injustice to the design of the amp, by using a tube that was not part of the design, but that is just me.


The WE 396's you have sound really good in the LP. Might be a tad warmer than the MJ2.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> The WE 396's you have sound really good in the LP. Might be a tad warmer than the MJ2.


If i did put anything in there other than 6922, if would be the WE396A.  I might try those way down the road, but for now I am happy as heck, with the Brimar.


----------



## jb77

Wes S said:


> Kind of interested in other tubes like 12au7, however my thinking is that Dr. Cavalli designed this amp with 6922, and he is super super smart.  I feel like i would be doing an injustice to the design of the amp, by using a tube that was not part of the design, but that is just me.



I will do a direct compare between my Brimar’s and the 12AU7’s will let you know what my impressions are between the 2.


----------



## Wes S

jb77 said:


> I will do a direct compare between my Brimar’s and the 12AU7’s will let you know what my impressions are between the 2.


Awesome!  I would really appreciate that.


----------



## jb77

Wes S said:


> Kind of interested in other tubes like 12au7, however my thinking is that Dr. Cavalli designed this amp with 6922, and he is super super smart.  I feel like i would be doing an injustice to the design of the amp, by using a tube that was not part of the design, but that is just me.





Wes S said:


> If i did put anything in there other than 6922, if would be the WE396A.  I might try those way down the road, but for now I am happy as heck, with the Brimar.



Originally I intended to keep it just the 6922/equivalents but after reading how much TK16 was enjoying his other tubes. The curiosity bug bit and I wanted to know what the differences between the tubes would be. Plus now I have been “bit” by the “Tube bug”


----------



## Wes S

jb77 said:


> Originally I intended to keep it just the 6922/equivalents but after reading how much TK16 was enjoying his other tubes. The curiosity bug bit and I wanted to know what the differences between the tubes would be. Plus now I have been “bit” by the “Tube bug”


Trust me, i know all about tube addiction!  Been there, done that, hence my 10 pairs of Amperex 7308.  That is why i am taking it real slow, with this amp.  I am sure the 12au7 sound amazing.


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> Originally I intended to keep it just the 6922/equivalents but after reading how much TK16 was enjoying his other tubes. The curiosity bug bit and I wanted to know what the differences between the tubes would be. Plus now I have been “bit” by the “Tube bug”


RCA clear top 12AU7 and 50'S RCA black plate 12AU7 I predict your next purchases to be, quite cheap and quite good.


----------



## jb77

Wes S said:


> Awesome!  I would really appreciate that.



No Problem, will be interesting to hear the differences.



Wes S said:


> Trust me, i know all about tube addiction!  Been there, done that, hence my 10 pairs of Amperex 7308.  That is why i am taking it real slow, with this amp.  I am sure the 12au7 sound amazing.



Yes this is definitely addictive and a lot of fun! I started out as a home theater guy and now have the headfi bug(headphones, DACs, amps, tubes, etc.)


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> They will be a huge upgrade to what you have, but once you get those other tubes....
> Share your impressions of the 7308.
> You should try the RCA clear tops ECC82, and 50's. RCA black plates ECC82. They go quite cheap on eBay and are darn good for the money. If you need help picking PM me.



I will look for these thanks for the recommendation 



TK16 said:


> RCA clear top 12AU7 and 50'S RCA black plate 12AU7 I predict your next purchases to be, quite cheap and quite good.



“I predict your next purchase to be”    
I have a feeling you are correct


----------



## MikeW

looks like there's about 3 different kinds of adapters on ebay for 6922 to 12au7, and the garage1217 ones as well. Is there any consensus on the quality of each option. What are you using Tk16?


----------



## TK16

MikeW said:


> looks like there's about 3 different kinds of adapters on ebay for 6922 to 12au7, and the garage1217 ones as well. Is there any consensus on the quality of each option. What are you using Tk16?


Garage1217 only has 2C51 to ECC88 adapters on eBay unless they sell those elsewhere. Adapters you want are 12A*7 to ECC88 not the other way around. You want to put the 12AU7 in the adapter and the adapters in the sockets of the LP. Those Garage1217 adapters are for 6N3P/2C51/5670/396A tubes. The Garage1217 adapters are ceramic and high quality but if you have any microphonic tubes they will amplify the microphonics. The cheap Chinese ones are decent bakelite adapters, these are for the 12AU7.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gold-plate...&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&redirect=mobile

These are Chinese ceramic ones for the 12AU7.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-ECC83-12...41ebdaeae8:g:60wAAOSwnXpblJTv&redirect=mobile

Here are the 6N3P to ECC88. This is for a pair the ones above need to buy 2 singles.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Gold-p...2c9e670177:g:~IoAAOSw~OVWwGvh&redirect=mobile

Here is decent Chinese socket savers if the tube mongers are out of stock. Buy 2 for pair.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-x-Gold-E...&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&redirect=mobile


----------



## Luckbad (Mar 9, 2019)

G1217 sells direct for a little less than eBay: http://www.garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_012.htm

They're by far the highest quality you can get. Thicker pins, better soldering, stronger PCB.

I have several of the adapters from China, and some of them are pretty good as well (labeled 6N3 TO ECC88).

That being said, you're running things out of spec with 5670/2C51/396A tubes and will likely kill off those precious Western Electrics pretty quickly (in the scheme of things).

Just because a tube doesn't immediately blow up the amp or the tube itself doesn't mean it's not degrading either the tube or amplifier components.

You're also technically voiding the amp's warranty if that matters to you.


----------



## TK16

Luckbad said:


> G1217 sells direct for a little less than eBay: http://www.garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_012.htm
> 
> They're by far the highest quality you can get. Thicker pins, better soldering, stronger PCB.
> 
> ...


Have a pair of WE 396A JW's with a thousand hours on them between a dac and 2 Schiit amps. Still testing as NOS for Gm. Sold 3 or 4 pair of the WE each with 500 hours on each set and excellent testing and very happy owners. The other 2 pair I have are 1 pair has a noisy tube, very good testing the other is way above NOS testing, both pair with 500 hours each on them. Unless there is something detrimental happening to the tubes that can't be measured on a tube tester or amp/dac Imho I think these tubes are are ok to use. Been using the 2C51/396A, 6N3P going on 2 years in my gear. Alex errs on the caution side using these tubes, nothing wrong with that. On of the 2 main Schiit guys posted a pic of a Vali 2 with adapter, and a 396A in it. They are more easy going using adapter tubes. They even liked a couple my posts regarding my experiences with the 2C51 line in general with Schiit gear.


----------



## Luckbad (Mar 9, 2019)

It's your amp and your tubes. I'm only commenting in the hope that a few folks exercise caution.

Something working out in one amp or DAC has no inherent relevance to another. The Schiit Vali 2, for example, is a completely different topology from the Liquid Platinum. Apples and oranges.

They see one person doing it and assume there are no risks or drawbacks without being fully informed (I insert my own mental disclaimer on forums, but not everyone does).

I may very well try it myself one day since I have the tubes and adapters necessary. But, I'll go into it knowing that I've voided my warranty and won't make a disingenuous warranty claim if I break something.

You are max level advanced tube rolling while most people should stick with the 6DJ8/exact-equivalent family.


----------



## TK16

The Western Electrics sound absolutely fantastic in the LP. Some tend be noisy in the LP with the high gain on the LP and the higher multiplication factor of 2C51 imo.


----------



## VintageAudio

VintageAudio said:


> It's definitely revealing.  It spares no bad recording.  After some further testing today, I still find it a little bright and wish it left me more headroom.  I'll probably hang on to it until my RME ADI-2 DAC arrives and see how they work together.



Just a followup, also tested with my RME Adi-2 and susvara.

Still too hot in the highs.  Both the LP and Susvara are revealing and the LP’s highs are just too much for me.

A shame, I think with almot any other set of cans, they’d be great.


----------



## kumar402 (Mar 9, 2019)

VintageAudio said:


> Just a followup, also tested with my RME Adi-2 and susvara.
> 
> Still too hot in the highs.  Both the LP and Susvara are revealing and the LP’s highs are just too much for me.
> 
> A shame, I think with almot any other set of cans, they’d be great.


It seems you are looking for warm and laid back sound. Why not try those DSP feature of RME. In case you don't want to use DSP, DSP brings welcome tweaks to headphones, may be you can try V281, it has power for Susvara and have heard they are little warm sounding. I don't have experience with this amp but have read about it in forums in case you are looking for SS. Those who own this HP may help.

Also try some R2R NOS DAC. They tend to be warm sounding


----------



## LCMusicLover

kumar402 said:


> ...may be you can try V281, it has power for Susvara and have heard they are little warm sounding...


I had V280 — same amp as 281 w/out preamp functionality.

I would not call it more than _very slightly warm_ and I hear more warmth from my LP with my NOS Amperex or Siemens tubes.

@kumar402 is correct that V281 is very powerful.


----------



## MikeW (Mar 9, 2019)

Well, the ADI-2 certainly has the ability to easily roll off the high's until your hearts content. You can pretty much do just about anything you want with that EQ, other then adding Dynamics/Distortion/Soundstage, the EQ in the adi-2 is extremely capable and can clear up any high end harshness you may be sensitive to, real quick. Considering the combo is rather warm and not particularly bright, i'd say your issue is more to do with the headphone then the gear.  You'll likely find yourself tweaking in various way's to roll that high end off. May as well cut to the chase with EQ then try a bunch of silly things to end up with a worse result, same thing go's to HD800 users.. high end headphones are not invincible, many bought HD800 and were stubborn with them, maybe you just don't like the susvara.


----------



## TK16

VintageAudio said:


> Just a followup, also tested with my RME Adi-2 and susvara.
> 
> Still too hot in the highs.  Both the LP and Susvara are revealing and the LP’s highs are just too much for me.
> 
> A shame, I think with almot any other set of cans, they’d be great.


Sounds like dac adjustments and warmer tubes may help with the brightness, are you using stock tubes?


----------



## Luckbad (Mar 9, 2019)

VintageAudio said:


> Just a followup, also tested with my RME Adi-2 and susvara.
> 
> Still too hot in the highs.  Both the LP and Susvara are revealing and the LP’s highs are just too much for me.
> 
> A shame, I think with almot any other set of cans, they’d be great.



Sounds like bad synergy then. If the Susvara are bright and lean with the combo but you otherwise love them, you probably need a different amp (something that leans a little warm without losing detail yet is powerful. Maybe an OTL? ampsandsound Mogwai SE? High end Woo?).

One thing I learned after years of audiophilia is the importance of system synergy. I primarily use Sennheiser HD650s, so highly resolving and neutral combos are great for me (e.g. RME ADI-2 DAC with the Cavalli Liquid Platinum or SPL Phonitor XE). When I desire a little more romance in my sound, the Garage1217 Project Sunrise III is called upon.


----------



## LCMusicLover

VintageAudio said:


> Just a followup, also tested with my RME Adi-2 and susvara.
> 
> Still too hot in the highs.  Both the LP and Susvara are revealing and the LP’s highs are just too much for me.
> 
> A shame, I think with almot any other set of cans, they’d be great.


Sounds like my experience with Utopia. Lazuli Ref cable helped. Didn’t think the LP helped (vs V280 and Bryston BHA-1). I found the stock tubes thin and a little bright.

Then I rolled in some Gold Lions and I was suddenly very happy with Utopia (and Auteur), although not so much with HEKv2 & Ether 2. NOS Amperex and Siemens made my dynamics even better and pair really well with my planars as well.

None of these tubes are that expensive, $110 or less per pair including shipping and fees.

I advise you to try at least one roll before jumping to a new amp. If you want to try a warmer tube, as a guess I think the Siemens would be the best to try from among the tubes I’ve rolled in (NOS E88CC from Germany — $101 shipped). They give me the best sound from my planars, including HEKv2. 

 JMHO of course.


----------



## LCMusicLover

BTW, Hattor Mini preamp came in and I’m using it with my LP. I’ve got the LP volume at straight-up 12:00 o’clock, using the Hattor remote to attenuate by 25 to 35 dB, depending on which cans I’m listening to. Super transparent — sonically I can’t tell that it’s there, compared to direct from DAC to amp.

Have to say the Hattor is super well-made. Everything, including the remote is very solid metal construction.

Phillip @ Mockingbird was very easy to work with. Preamp was shipped to him from Poland. He checked it out, then forwarded it to me. Ordered on Feb 14, received Mar 7, so exactly 3 weeks.


----------



## penguinofsleep2

Looks like theres already "enough" feedback, but some brief feedback from myself for those who may be deciding on if they should spend the $:

Great amp, especially for the <$700 I paid (used an ebay coupon) when it first came out. Very close to liquid crimson which was something I really wanted but could never get my hands on when I first got into the hobby several years ago. Only thing that slightly annoys me about this is it uses 6922's, which isn't my favorite tube family.

I wouldn't call this an only amp. Nor would I call this TOTL, but it's about 95% there compared to most amps that I've tried or borrowed that would be considered TOTL. Considering that this is less than 1/4 or 1/3 of most TOTL headphone amps, if I "had to settle", this would be it. And by saying this, I am not complaining about this amp by any means. There are times, combinations/setups, or certain recordings/songs where I preferred (or would prefer) this over the TOTLs I'll be getting. Nor will I sell this once I get said amps.

Overall, sound is relatively "easy" to listen to with most things. Slightly warm imo but not by adding too much of any one thing. Has kind of a "regulated" or "controlled" sound that pops up at times if that makes sense (ex like an overly prepared and slightly lame/generic sounding official marketing message). On the flip side that's why this works with so many things IMO. Not lacking in any one area.

Willing to post more if people ask, but cut the sound signature and other impressions short b/c there seems to be enough already.


----------



## Wes S

It really matters what tubes are in there, as well as the dac.  I dont have the best dac, i will admit, however, it is warm and so are the tubes i rolled.  i am super treble sensitive and have experienced zero brightness.


----------



## Zachik

Just had an idea... we discussed using a preamp, to lower the level of LP input.
Did anyone try using the Monoprice Liquid Spark as preamp?  For $99 it is a pretty affordable option!  For anyone who has both - please give it a try.

Looking forward to hear some reports back...


----------



## TK16 (Mar 11, 2019)

Zachik said:


> Just had an idea... we discussed using a preamp, to lower the level of LP input.
> Did anyone try using the Monoprice Liquid Spark as preamp?  For $99 it is a pretty affordable option!  For anyone who has both - please give it a try.
> N t
> Looking forward to hear some reports back...


Wonder if I could use MJ2 with Western Electric 396A in them as a preamp connected with my LP with Telefunken ECC82 smooth plates in them. That would be quite the polar opposites in tubes merging together. Not sure if that's possible though.


----------



## Zachik

Zachik said:


> Just had an idea... we discussed using a preamp, to lower the level of LP input.
> Did anyone try using the Monoprice Liquid Spark as preamp? For $99 it is a pretty affordable option! For anyone who has both - please give it a try.


@runeight Alex - what are your thoughts on this idea?  Can the Liquid Spark be used as a good preamp solution for the high-gain issue of the LP? Use at 50% of max volume on Spark, to substantially increase the usable range of volume knob of LP?


----------



## kumar402 (Mar 11, 2019)

Zachik said:


> Just had an idea... we discussed using a preamp, to lower the level of LP input.
> Did anyone try using the Monoprice Liquid Spark as preamp?  For $99 it is a pretty affordable option!  For anyone who has both - please give it a try.
> 
> Looking forward to hear some reports back...





TK16 said:


> Wonder if I could use MJ2 with Western Electric 396A in them as a preamp connected with my LP with Telefunken ECC82 smooth plates in them. That would be quite the polar opposites in tubes merging together. Not sure if that's possible though.



We have to find out the output impedence of the pre-out. i happen to have Valhalla2 with me which also has a pre out but I am not sure if those pre its can be used with another headphone amp


----------



## kumar402

anyone using Schiit Saga with LP?


----------



## VintageAudio

Luckbad said:


> Sounds like bad synergy then. If the Susvara are bright and lean with the combo but you otherwise love them, you probably need a different amp (something that leans a little warm without losing detail yet is powerful. Maybe an OTL? ampsandsound Mogwai SE? High end Woo?).
> 
> One thing I learned after years of audiophilia is the importance of system synergy. I primarily use Sennheiser HD650s, so highly resolving and neutral combos are great for me (e.g. RME ADI-2 DAC with the Cavalli Liquid Platinum or SPL Phonitor XE). When I desire a little more romance in my sound, the Garage1217 Project Sunrise III is called upon.



I found out the issue.  I really wanted to give the Liquid Platinum a fair shot, up until today I was using the only the RCA inputs into the LQ with the 4-pin XLR balanced out to the Hifiman Susvara.  

Compared with connecting the Susvara directly to the speaker outputs of my NAD C 315BEE it sounded wrong.  

The NAD was much more balanced across frequencies and more listenable.  

On the LQ I was getting an over abundance of highs, sibilance/ringing and the vocals sounded recessed.

Today my Mogami XLR cables arrived and I hooked them up from my ADI-2 DAC rear XLR outs to the LP XLR inputs.  

Hit the little button on the LQ to switch to XLR inputs and voila!

Good clarity, instrument separation, bass came back, the extended highs were much more in check and vocals no longer recessed.

Still need some more listening to see which I prefer.  

With the XLRs I noticed an improvement, but the NAD still sounds more balanced and the vocals a little more forward.


----------



## TK16 (Mar 12, 2019)

kumar402 said:


> We have to find out the output impedence of the pre-out. i happen to have Valhalla2 with me which also has a pre out but I am not sure if those pre its can be used with another headphone amp


Is their any harm in trying? I`m not one for taking chances tbh, Found out in this thread what adapter tubes work and do not work in the LP, people were rolling these tubes for months before I got my LP. If there`s any chance in something bad happening using the MJ2 as a pre amp, not going to risk it. If they are any people that have tried this out let me know please.
I emailed Schiit about output impedance of the pre out for the MJ2.
@kumar402 Schiit answered back with *Output Impedance:* 1 ohm (high gain), 0.3 ohms (low gain) for the MJ2 as per the details on the MJ2 on their website. E mail Schiit for your amp. They answered in about 5 minutes.


----------



## kumar402

TK16 said:


> Is their any harm in trying? I`m not one for taking chances tbh, Found out in this thread what adapter tubes work and do not work in the LP, people were rolling these tubes for months before I got my LP. If there`s any chance in something bad happening using the MJ2 as a pre amp, not going to risk it. If they are any people that have tried this out let me know please.
> I emailed Schiit about output impedance of the pre out for the MJ2.
> @kumar402 Schiit answered back with *Output Impedance:* 1 ohm (high gain), 0.3 ohms (low gain) for the MJ2 as per the details on the MJ2 on their website. E mail Schiit for your amp. They answered in about 5 minutes.


I feel that may be the impedence of headphone out not that of preamp. In case of preamp we have to see how the output impedence behaves with the volume knob. If the impedence is too high it may attenuate frequency below certain range. However from this thread I got the details that LP has 172K input impedence so I guess we should be fine impedence wise. Any technical person can chime in. Also best is to follow 10:1 ratio of impedence matching between amp and preamp.


----------



## TK16 (Mar 12, 2019)

I sent 2 messages 1 asking the output impedance of the pre out and was given that info, second message was asking if that info pertained to the output impedance of the pre out of the MJ2 and was given a yes 1 word answer, myself I have 0 knowledge about this stuff myself. Curious myself if this can be done. Not a deal breaker if it's not possible, but I'd like to give it a shot if someone more knowledgeable than me have the answers.
TBH I have no idea if the info given is correct.
@kumar402 never used the pre amp on the MJ2 how would the connections work using balanced cables. ie what connects to what?


----------



## Wes S

Does anyone know if these would work?  I know they are not adjustable, but could be enough?
https://www.parts-express.com/harrison-labs-12-db-rca-line-level-audio-attenuator-pair--266-244

I read the reviews and they sound like what we are after. . .to get better range on the volume pot.


----------



## LCMusicLover (Mar 12, 2019)

Wes S said:


> Does anyone know if these would work?  I know they are not adjustable, but could be enough?
> https://www.parts-express.com/harrison-labs-12-db-rca-line-level-audio-attenuator-pair--266-244
> 
> I read the reviews and they sound like what we are after. . .to get better range on the volume pot.


Hard to say.  On the one hand, while 12 dB attenuation maybe a bit lower than ideal, but it's enough to be help.

On the other hand, such devices may or may not be linear in their effect. The reviews are universally positive, except for one poster who complained about price vs the presumed cost of the BOM.  So maybe they work great.  Impossible to be sure without measurements.

Personally, I went with a passive preamp to get a remote with volume control and source selection.  Also, my chain is balanced, so I needed that as well. Of course I also paid about 15 X what these cost.

For comparison, I'm using about 25 - 35 dB attenuation depending on which cans I'm listening to.  At that level of attenuation, I set the LP volume to 12:00 o'clock.  Note that my DAC has 4.4Vrms output.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Does anyone know if these would work?  I know they are not adjustable, but could be enough?
> https://www.parts-express.com/harrison-labs-12-db-rca-line-level-audio-attenuator-pair--266-244
> 
> I read the reviews and they sound like what we are after. . .to get better range on the volume pot.


Cheap enough to give it a shot, but the Nobsound I have does the job right now, looking at better volume attenuation, but not sure if I could tell the difference between them tbh. See if parts express has a return policy if it is not sufficient. Shipping back should be inexpensive.


----------



## Zachik

@atomicbob - I know you're doing a lot of measurements, and wonder if you have experience with attenuators such as the ones @Wes S found (post # 1846) ?


----------



## atomicbob

Harrison Labs 12 dB attenuator comprises the following based on data available from the internet:




 

That is as simple as it gets. Attenuation is actually 12.24 dB.

If Nobsound would actually change the NS-05P from a 50K Alps to a 10K Alps pot, that would be the better solution. I had seen the spec change on Amazon from 50K to 10K a short while ago and acquired another one only to find present stock still has 50K pots. They are probably waiting to flush the backstock before making a change. I note spec has since been returned to 50K on Amazon.


----------



## Zachik

atomicbob said:


> Harrison Labs 12 dB attenuator comprises the following based on data available from the internet:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you think, from your experience, that these 12.24 dB attenuation plugs would change the sound?  In other words, for people like me who do NOT have golden ears - would I hear any drop in sound quality if I use these between my DAC and the LP?  
All I want is more usable volume range from my LP volume knob, without screwing up my source quality in a noticeable way...


----------



## Rattle (Mar 12, 2019)

kumar402 said:


> anyone using Schiit Saga with LP?



I have used them together, passive mode only. I may be wrong and I did not measure it but I think I heard the highs slightly rolled off. Was using 3ft LC1 cables and modi multibit. I thought I could hear a slight difference. I don't really need more volume play on the LP since I just use HD6xx for now and 90% of the stuff I listen to is DR8 or more so it helps. I used saga so I could use mimby on my speakers as well, but then realized the LP has that sweet passthrough so I actually run OUT of the LP to saga. I prefer the mimby going right into the LP.


----------



## Wes S

Zachik said:


> Do you think, from your experience, that these 12.24 dB attenuation plugs would change the sound?  In other words, for people like me who do NOT have golden ears - would I hear any drop in sound quality if I use these between my DAC and the LP?
> All I want is more usable volume range from my LP volume knob, without screwing up my source quality in a noticeable way...


i would love to know this, too.


----------



## TK16

Anybody use this. Has a bad review though.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076BP2QM...olid=3MNN3N5N29NAW&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it


----------



## atomicbob

Zachik said:


> Do you think, from your experience, that these 12.24 dB attenuation plugs would change the sound?  In other words, for people like me who do NOT have golden ears - would I hear any drop in sound quality if I use these between my DAC and the LP?
> All I want is more usable volume range from my LP volume knob, without screwing up my source quality in a noticeable way...





Wes S said:


> i would love to know this, too.


Please look at the blue line in the 12 dB attenuation graph in this post:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/gol...-technical-measurements.899382/#post-14761029

With 2 feet of a low capacitance cable, Belden 1800F, high frequency roll-off was less than 0.125 dB at 20 KHz. Use Blue Jeans LC-1 or AudioBlast HQ-1 cables for single ended connections.


----------



## Wes S (Mar 12, 2019)

atomicbob said:


> Please look at the blue line in the 12 dB attenuation graph in this post:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/gol...-technical-measurements.899382/#post-14761029
> 
> With 2 feet of a low capacitance cable, Belden 1800F, high frequency roll-off was less than 0.125 dB at 20 KHz. Use Blue Jeans LC-1 or AudioBlast HQ-1 cables for single ended connections.


Thanks as always for the info!  I might give these a try, as i dont need much more range with pot.  I actually have pair in hand, as well as Blue Jeans LC-1 in 1ft length, and may give them a try soon.


----------



## Zachik

atomicbob said:


> With 2 feet of a low capacitance cable, Belden 1800F, high frequency roll-off was less than 0.125 dB at 20 KHz.


Is that a scientific way to say: "No audible change to sound *at least* up to 20KHz" ?


----------



## VintageAudio

Burn in....

Was reading the manual for the LP and it says after around 100 hours of play the sound characteristics of the amp will settle in.

Are any of you able to describe how the sound of LP changes during and after burn in?  Very curious on what direction my LP is heading in while I put in the hours.


----------



## kumar402

VintageAudio said:


> Burn in....
> 
> Was reading the manual for the LP and it says after around 100 hours of play the sound characteristics of the amp will settle in.
> 
> Are any of you able to describe how the sound of LP changes during and after burn in?  Very curious on what direction my LP is heading in while I put in the hours.


I guess manufacturer suggest burn in of amp for tube used to be properly burned in. If you buy any good NOS tube they would suggest something like 100 hrs and up of burning in.
I don’t feel non NOS tube need 100 hrs. But NOS tubes do sound smoother after burn in


----------



## kumar402

Wes S said:


> Does anyone know if these would work?  I know they are not adjustable, but could be enough?
> https://www.parts-express.com/harrison-labs-12-db-rca-line-level-audio-attenuator-pair--266-244
> 
> I read the reviews and they sound like what we are after. . .to get better range on the volume pot.


There is one sold by Garage1217 as well 
http://garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_012.htm


----------



## Wes S (Mar 14, 2019)

kumar402 said:


> There is one sold by Garage1217 as well
> http://garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_012.htm


Cool, but it is single ended.


----------



## Zachik

kumar402 said:


> There is one sold by Garage1217 as well
> http://garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_012.htm


I wonder whether it is better to use the 1/4" attenuation at the amp out, or RCAs at the amp in... 
Any thoughts, either by people that tried both, or by someone who has a theoretical explanation why would 1 be better solution than the other?


----------



## Gauss1777

Anyone tried low impedance cans like LCD-X or iBasso SR1 on the Liquid Platinum?


----------



## Wes S

Zachik said:


> I wonder whether it is better to use the 1/4" attenuation at the amp out, or RCAs at the amp in...
> Any thoughts, either by people that tried both, or by someone who has a theoretical explanation why would 1 be better solution than the other?


Good question.


----------



## Wes S

Gauss1777 said:


> Anyone tried low impedance cans like LCD-X or iBasso SR1 on the Liquid Platinum?


Just from my experience with the Ori and Alpha Prime, being 50ohm hard to drive planars, I have very little room for volume control, as it is.  Therefore I don't think this is the amp for low impedance cans, without a gain switch, but would love to hear if anyone has tried it.


----------



## Zachik

Zachik said:


> I wonder whether it is better to use the 1/4" attenuation at the amp out, or RCAs at the amp in...
> Any thoughts, either by people that tried both, or by someone who has a theoretical explanation why would 1 be better solution than the other?





Wes S said:


> Good question.


One quick thought about *practical *difference:
If using RCAs (amp's input) - that would help attenuate headphones connected to XLR4 balanced out as well...


----------



## kumar402

Gauss1777 said:


> Anyone tried low impedance cans like LCD-X or iBasso SR1 on the Liquid Platinum?


I have tried my Meze Empyrean with LP.
it’s very sensitive HP, so I have to use MOJO as my DAC. I have to go way below 2V out of Mojo with its volume and then I also have Schit Sys which I’m dialing down to around 2-3 and with all these attenuation I am at max around 8:30-9 in volume knob in LP.
SOmetimes I also end up using headroom  feature of DSP to attenuate 2-3 Db in Roon.


----------



## kumar402

Wes S said:


> Cool, but it is single ended.


If there is enough interest we can bulk order with XLR out.
May be we can talk to them


----------



## kumar402

Check this out. As per the gentleman who has done the measurement, this amp is the best performing amp he has come across that has tube in it.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ce-liquid-platinum-headphone-amp-review.7036/

Yesterday he destroyed Woo Audio WA7


----------



## MikeW (Mar 14, 2019)

Good O'l Amir eh, he swings a little too far to the objective side for my taste. But I do read his website and consider his conclusions. I've owned and enjoyed gear that he loves and gear that he's dammed. He's generally not a fan of Tubes and Multi-bit or R2R gear, no one listen's to either of those products for their measurements, and I don't think anyone ever said they measure better. If you take him to seriously you'll be stuck on Topping D50 forever, that will be the end of your journey. Sure does suck the fun right out of the hobby. Amir's never been to kind to Alex's previous designs, have to see how this one fair's.


----------



## atomicbob

kumar402 said:


> Check this out. As per the gentleman who has done the measurement, this amp is the best performing amp he has come across that has tube in it.
> 
> Yesterday he destroyed Woo Audio WA7


You may find a comprehensive set of measurements for the Liquid Platinum right here on head-fi:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monoprice-cavalli-liquid-platinum-technical-measurements.894843/


----------



## MikeW (Mar 14, 2019)

Amir's review is crap, for a couple of reasons. Mostly because he discover's that the amp performs much better in Balanced output mode, but all but one of his measurements including his precious SINAD are based on single ended output. What a moron. Then he makes up a new test that he's never done to any other amp before.. (signal to noise at 50mv output 600 ohm).. finally he asked why put a tube in the circuit.. because it's a god damn tube amp you dumb crap. The amp clearly changes character with tube rolling as well. This is why I don't like Amir, he has his own bias against anything not solid state and go's out of his way to prove his point, often times with meaningless measurements, zoomed in graph's and out of context bull. Nobody buy's this thing for it's single ended performance, 1/4 may as well not even be there...


----------



## LCMusicLover

MikeW said:


> Amir's review is crap, for a couple of reasons. Mostly because he discover's that the amp performs much better in Balanced output mode, but all but one of his measurements including his precious SINAD are based on single ended output. What a moron. Then he makes up a new test that he's never done to any other amp before.. (signal to noise at 50mv output 600 ohm).. finally he asked why put a tube in the circuit.. because it's a god damn tube amp you dumb ****. The amp clearly changes character with tube rolling as well. This is why I don't like Amir, he has his own bias against anything not solid state and go's out of his way to prove his point, often times with meaningless measurements, zoomed in graph's and out of context bull****. Nobody buy's this thing for it's single ended performance, 1/4 may as well not even be there...


Yes, but it's _Audio Science_, so how can you argue with it


----------



## MikeW (Mar 14, 2019)

Very easily... measure an amp that's targeted towards a crowd that will not even see it has a 1/4 jack, and is clearly the weakest part of the amp.. yeah measure that and base your entire review off it, don't show the SINAD of the balanced output, then form conclusions based off that, and mislead the reader.. guys got "issues".. I own the excellent measuring and well reviewed by him, ADI-2 also. I still think he's full of crap... lies, damn lies, statistics, lawyers and Amir's Measurements.. in that order.


----------



## heliosphann

Ah, nothing I like more than to see amp measurements... and completely ignore them.


----------



## MikeW

Yeah.. Distortion's not a dirty word folks. Everyone knows Tubes and R2R have more distortion, that's why we buy it. Warmth and 3D soundstage literally is distortion, that's A-OK.


----------



## VintageAudio

kumar402 said:


> I guess manufacturer suggest burn in of amp for tube used to be properly burned in. If you buy any good NOS tube they would suggest something like 100 hrs and up of burning in.
> I don’t feel non NOS tube need 100 hrs. But NOS tubes do sound smoother after burn in



Thanks for your thoughts.  I'm about 50 hours into the burn in and I "think" I have notice an improvement in the sound...much of the top end glare I was experiencing and found fatiguing seems to be more under control now.  I do still think the vocals are slightly recessed relative to my other headphone amp.

Overall it's sounding better, clean and crispy and starting to fill out.

Or....

could just be me playing mind games with myself.


----------



## runeight

Regarding the measurements conversation in response to post above. I have not read and don't think I will, but if the reports are accurate a few things (and I don't usually comment on conversations such as this one).

If the measurements are only made from the SE out and this is intentional, it belies any real understanding of the differences between full balanced and SE. It is a measurement that does not really measure the true capabilities on an amp like the LP.

For one thing, because of the way the SE is tapped out of the balanced outputs the even order harmonics will be higher than from the Bal out because there is no differential amp cancellation. This only happens from Bal out.

Secondly. accepting that SE out represents the capability of an amp belies a lack of understanding of the differences between balanced and SE operation.

To present a measurement as representative of a balanced amp from SE out is simply not correct (if indeed that is the case here).

For another thing, measurements are not a simple matter of hooking up a few cables and running some profiles. One has to know how his measuring equipment works. The grounds have to done correctly. The environmental noise has to be taken into account. Etc. 

I strongly suggest that, if anyone wants real professional measurements, you read AtomicBob's full suite of measurements and evaluation of this amp. I doubt you'll find any more accurate measurements than these and likely less accurate.


----------



## sahmen

Gauss1777 said:


> Anyone tried low impedance cans like LCD-X or iBasso SR1 on the Liquid Platinum?



I've use the LCD-X on this several times, and it plays fine at around 9 o'clock to 9:30.  The LCD-4 requires the dial to be at 11:30ish, but both play quite nicely with the LP. Personally, I do not like messing wdith the volume dial too much, once I have found a sweet spot for each headphone, so I am not bothered at all by the 9:00-9:30 positioning for the LCD-_X. Bottomline is that they work quite nicely together with no downsides that I can see.


----------



## Luckbad

atomicbob said:


> You may find a comprehensive set of measurements for the Liquid Platinum right here on head-fi:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monoprice-cavalli-liquid-platinum-technical-measurements.894843/


These are measurements from a legitimate expert in the field who is employed and well-respected in the industry. Ignore Amir and listen to Bob.


----------



## Gauss1777

sahmen said:


> I've use the LCD-X on this several times, and it plays fine at around 9 o'clock to 9:30.  The LCD-4 requires the dial to be at 11:30ish, but both play quite nicely with the LP. Personally, I do not like messing wdith the volume dial too much, once I have found a sweet spot for each headphone, so I am not bothered at all by the 9:00-9:30 positioning for the LCD-_X. Bottomline is that they work quite nicely together with no downsides that I can see.



Thanks for the info sahmen. That is from the balanced line or the unbalanced line?

How do you like your LCD-X coming from the LP against any other nice Amp you may have?


----------



## sahmen (Mar 15, 2019)

Gauss1777 said:


> Thanks for the info sahmen. That is from the balanced line or the unbalanced line?
> 
> How do you like your LCD-X coming from the LP against any other nice Amp you may have?


,
That is from the balanced XLR output, which is my preferred on the LP.  As for the LP's performance, I'll just say that for the price, it seems to be unmatched, as far as I know.  Even when you take pricing out of the equation (which seems to eliminate any idea of a fair playing field), the LP holds its own quite well against other, apparently higher end amps.   My Violectric V281 is superior in build and in certain technicalities (which is to be expected, given how it is more than 3x the price of the LP), but the LP can and does give the V281 a run of its money most of the time, when it comes to handling many types of cans, such as the LCD-X, for example, from the viewpoint of raw performance alone.  There are instances when the LP might show certain limitations, when going head to head with the V281, but those aren't limitations one needs to apologize for, given the price point of the LP..

If you're considering getting the LP, then it has my thumbs up all the way.


----------



## Wes S

sahmen said:


> I've use the LCD-X on this several times, and it plays fine at around 9 o'clock to 9:30.  The LCD-4 requires the dial to be at 11:30ish, but both play quite nicely with the LP. Personally, I do not like messing wdith the volume dial too much, once I have found a sweet spot for each headphone, so I am not bothered at all by the 9:00-9:30 positioning for the LCD-_X. Bottomline is that they work quite nicely together with no downsides that I can see.


Wow!  If I went to 11:30 on the dial, I would be deaf, even with my hard to drive Ori planars.  I can't go past 9 or it is way to loud.  My sweet spot is between 8 and 9.  Interesting how we have different hearing.


----------



## sahmen (Mar 15, 2019)

Wes S said:


> Wow!  If I went to 11:30 on the dial, I would be deaf, even with my hard to drive Ori planars.  I can't go past 9 or it is way to loud.  My sweet spot is between 8 and 9.  Interesting how we have different hearing.



Well, I think your idea of the LCD-4's loudness at 11:00-11:30 o'clock is a bit exaggerated.  I typically listen at relatively moderate volumes myself, so something seems off in your assessment. Bear in mind that the LCD-4 has an impedance of 200 Ohms at 97db of sensitivity, as opposed to the LCD-X's 20 Ohms at 103db of sensitivity.  Ergo, the LCD-4 requires a lot more juice to play at a level of loudness equivalent to the LCD-X...  That is why the LCD-X works at 9:00 whereas the LCD-4 requires the travel of the dial to the 11 O'clock position or a bit more.

If I still had my Hifiman He-6 or the Susvara (which I have never heard), I bet  the dial will easily have to get to the 2-3 o'clock position to start sounding acceptably loud, and even that might not cut it for some people.  Again, I am no basshead or loud-music freak, For one thing, my ears get easily offended when the music gets too loud, whether I am listening to headphones or speakers. So take all that into account in interpreting what I have said.


----------



## Wes S (Mar 15, 2019)

sahmen said:


> Well, I think your idea of the LCD-4's loudness at 11:00-11:30 o'clock is a bit exaggerated.  I typically listen at relatively moderate volumes myself, so something seems off in your assessment. Bear in mind that the LCD-4 has an impedance of 200 Ohms at 97db of sensitivity, as opposed to the LCD-X's 20 Ohms at 103db of sensitivity.  Ergo, the LCD-4 requires a lot more juice to play at a level of loudness equivalent to the LCD-X...  That is why the LCD-X works at 9:00 whereas the LCD-4 requires the travel of the dial to the 11 O'clock position or a bit more.
> 
> If I still had my Hifiman He-6 or the Susvara (which I have never heard), I bet  the dial will easily have to get to the 2-3 o'clock position to start sounding acceptably loud, and even that might not cut it for some people.  Again, I am no basshead or loud-music freak, For one thing, my ears get easily offended when the music gets too loud, whether I am listening to headphones or speakers. So take all that into account in interpreting what I have said.


My bad, i read that wrong and thought the 11:00 -11:30 was for the LCD X.  That is interesting how you can get to 9:30 with it.  i cant get past 9 with my Ori, Before it hurts my ears.  Maybe because of different dacs?


----------



## Gauss1777

sahmen said:


> ,
> That is from the balanced XLR output, which is my preferred on the LP.  As for the LP's performance, I'll just say that for the price, it seems to be unmatched, as far as I know.  Even when you take pricing out of the equation (which seems to eliminate any idea of a fair playing field), the LP holds its own quite well against other, apparently higher end amps.   My Violectric V281 is superior in build and in certain technicalities (which is to be expected, given how it is more than 3x the price of the LP), but the LP can and does give the V281 a run of its money most of the time, when it comes to handling many types of cans, such as the LCD-X, for example, from the viewpoint of raw performance alone.  There are instances when the LP might show certain limitations, when going head to head with the V281, but those aren't limitations needs to apologize for, given its price.
> 
> If you're considering getting the LP, then it has my thumbs up all the way.



I'm deciding between the LP or the LTA MZ2, the MZ2 it's almost triple the price of the LP and no XLR output, I cannot hear them both before buying since they both had to be imported and bought online. I've read just great things for both, seems that the endgame could be the MZ2 and even single ended would outperform rivals. As to perceptible difference, might be just subjective. Objectively might be, whether I'll spend that big amount of cash on an MZ2 as a smart decision, that If I get the LP I could also upgrade my speaker system or some other classy headphones too.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Gauss1777 said:


> I'm deciding between the LP or the LTA MZ2, the MZ2 it's almost triple the price of the LP and no XLR output, I cannot hear them both before buying since they both had to be imported and bought online. I've read just great things for both, seems that the endgame could be the MZ2 and even single ended would outperform rivals. As to perceptible difference, might be just subjective. Objectively might be, whether I'll spend that big amount of cash on an MZ2 as a smart decision, that If I get the LP I could also upgrade my speaker system or some other classy headphones too.


Tough call.

I guess how much you value:

- balanced I/O
- enough juice to power 'difficult to drive' headphones

vs

- preamp functionality
- remote control (optional @ $250)
- ability to drive (very) efficient speakers

becomes a big part of the equation.

As far as sound quality is concerned, it's probably going to be hard to find someone who can directly compare them as the MZ2 is a somewhat niche product, and LP is pretty new.

There are a couple pretty detailed reviews here:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/linear-tube-audio-microzotl-2.20916/reviews

and the second one references this thread:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mic...-amp-and-preamp-a-breakthrough-device.771234/

which seems active.  Perhaps someone there will help.

One thing I will say -- you'll probably end up purchasing some kind of attenuation hardware for the LP, unless your DAC has low or adjustable output.

GLTY


----------



## Gauss1777 (Mar 15, 2019)

LCMusicLover said:


> Tough call.
> 
> I guess how much you value:
> 
> ...



I won't use the preamp or sesnsitive speakers. It would be just by the final output to the headphones.

As for the attenuation on the LP, my DX7s can control the volumen on the line out, but to my perception, seems the overall macro dynamics becomes weaker when comparing to the same overall level volumen when setting the DAC at 0db (full line out), maybe because the volume attenuation on the DAC is digital.

I'm using by now a Liquid Spark between the DX7s and the iBasso SR1.

I use too an HD600. Balanced from the DX7s amp section sounds overall better than from the LS+SR1 but the more extended bass that the SR1 has Is missing.

My feeling Is that the LP would be a mix of the things I like most from the HD600 on the Bottlehead Crack and the faster tighter sound from a SS when using my HD600. The result with the SR1 maybe similar.

The question is, what would I do with my SR1 if it doesn't make the big difference compared to what I have even if I get the LP. I've read and I'm told that it would scale better than the HD600 on high stuff. One guy at the MZ2 thread uses this combo and just talks marvels.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Gauss1777 said:


> I won't use the preamp or sesnsitive speakers. It would be just by the final output to the headphones.
> 
> As for the attenuation on the LP, my DX7s can control the volumen on the line out, but to my perception, seems the overall macro dynamics becomes weaker when comparing to the same overall level volumen when setting the DAC at 0db (full line out), maybe because the volume attenuation on the DAC is digital.


Yes, if the DAC is preforming attenuation on the digital signal, you're losing bits.  There's quite a bit of discussion/controversy about whether the loss is audible or not.  IIRC the consensus seems to be that it will be noticeable for 16-bit signals, but probably won't be at higher bit-rates.

I have no idea what happens if you attenuate an up-sampled digital signal.  Hopefully up-sampling happens in front of attenuation.

Assuming you are using the DX7's XLR output, the output voltage is 4 Vrms, which will definitely be hot enough to cause gain issue with sensitive cans.  With my Denafrips Pontus (4.4 Vrms output) I had a lot of trouble with my Utopia.  I've got a preamp to solve that, but, obviously, that's also more money, which will factor into your decision.


----------



## MikeW (Mar 15, 2019)

I love the RME for this, it has excellent attenuation, a combo of analog and digital attenuation. They intelligently adust digital attenuation until a threshold is met and then drop analog attenuation, and if more attenuation is needed the cycle continues, always keeping digital attenuation at a minimum, this is done transparently to the end user, and also at 32Bit.

@ Runeeight, the worst part about Amir's review is he actually realizes the Balanced output mode is significantly  better than the Single ended mode, and then chooses to mostly ignore it, he does comment on it slightly, but does not run anymore test. Interestingly enough he did give LP huge props for large amounts of power delivered before clipping, and enjoyed the amp in a subjective listening test. Which is a bit of a new thing for amir, i've been reading his site for a few years and I've noticed a bit of a change in his trend. He used to be a by the measurements only guy, and as time has progressed he's made a few concessions here and there, but it's mild. His back and forth between the guys at Soekris was interesting, and as a rapport was made between the two,  you could clearly see it's influence in his review of the 1541, not nearly as harsh as he typically is. Particularly frustrating with the LP is I believe it would be in his top echelon of performance if it had been measured as a balanced only unit. But is instead relegated to the lower section of his charts because of SE SINAD. He was pretty harsh on the power supply and power circuit, even though the amp clearly cancel's out the vast majority of noise when ran balanced. It's really dumb the way he wrote that whole thing up.


----------



## runeight (Mar 15, 2019)

MikeW said:


> I love the RME for this, it has excellent attenuation, a combo of analog and digital attenuation. They intelligently adust digital attenuation until a threshold is met and then drop analog attenuation, and if more attenuation is needed the cycle continues, always keeping digital attenuation at a minimum, this is done transparently to the end user, and also at 32Bit.
> 
> @ Runeeight, the worst part about Amir's review is he actually realizes the Balanced output mode is significantly  better than the Single ended mode, and then chooses to mostly ignore it, he does comment on it slightly, but does not run anymore test. Interestingly enough he did give LP huge props for large amounts of power delivered before clipping, and enjoyed the amp in a subjective listening test. Which is a bit of a new thing for amir, i've been reading his site for a few years and I've noticed a bit of a change in his trend. He used to be a by the measurements only guy, and as time has progressed he's made a few concessions here and there, but it's mild. His back and forth between the guys at Soekris was interesting, and as a rapport was made between the two,  you could clearly see it's influence in his review of the 1541, not nearly as harsh as he typically is. Particularly frustrating with the LP is I believe it would be in his top echelon of performance if it had been measured as a balanced only unit. But is instead relegated to the lower section of his charts because of SE SINAD. He was pretty harsh on the power supply and power circuit, even though the amp clearly cancel's out the vast majority of noise when ran balanced. It's really dumb the way he wrote that whole thing up.



Thanks for the summary. It does great damage to have a review like this that is based on faulty or incomplete or improper measurements, especially for those individuals who might not know the limitations in the methodology. I'm not sure how to fix this..............


----------



## MikeW (Mar 15, 2019)

I wouldn't bother, Amir's preaching to an already converted, drank the koolaid crowd. Just read some of the comments by his zealots in the forums at his site. It's not worth your time, don't sweat it. I and many others are well aware of your contributions to the hobby over the years. You've got nothing to prove to anyone.


----------



## runeight

MikeW said:


> I wouldn't bother, Amir's preaching to an already converted, drank the koolaid crowd. Just read some of the comments by his zealots in the forums at his site. It's not worth your time, don't sweat it.



Yes. But this kind of thing spreads around and becomes fixed in people's minds. I'm not happy about it.


----------



## MikeW (Mar 15, 2019)

I suppose if you felt inclined,  you could register for an account on their forum and clear some things up. Just reading the comments of the review there, it's clear that most don't understand how the LP works. They don't understand it's topology, or it's heritage. Some  might care, if informed, most don't. It's a tough crowd. If your curious what you can expect though, read the review of the Soekris 1541, and the back and forth on the forum's between that manufacturer and the crowd there. He's been alot harder on some of your other designs then the LP.


----------



## omniweltall

runeight said:


> Yes. But this kind of thing spreads around and becomes fixed in people's minds. I'm not happy about it.


You reputation far surpasses Amir's. Many people have heard the LP and everyone give very positive reviews. There will be more people defending it.


----------



## atomicbob

runeight said:


> Yes. But this kind of thing spreads around and becomes fixed in people's minds. I'm not happy about it.


Alex is correct in pointing out how people not skilled in the measurement arts will latch on to data which may be selectively presented, misleading, misrepresenting or deficient, and develop incorrect conclusions because a high profile audio tester was employed for the measurements. Then this compromised understanding of information is regurgitated as fact, repeatedly. No one seems to question the skill levels or bias of people performing the measurements.



MikeW said:


> I suppose if you felt inclined,  you could register for an account on their forum and clear some things up. Just reading the comments of the review there, it's clear that most don't understand how the LP works. They don't understand it's topology, or it's heritage. Some  might care, if informed, most don't. It's a tough crowd. If your curious what you can expect though, read the review of the Soekris 1541, and the back and forth on the forum's between that manufacturer and the crowd there. He's been alot harder on some of your other designs then the LP.


The follower faithful would harass Alex no end. Attempts at reasoning would require considerable time, likely with no positive outcome, which could be better spent in more useful ways. Tar baby.


----------



## MikeW (Mar 15, 2019)

Selectively Presented. I like that. Pretty much sums up the entire ASR site. Well said. Ancedotally, it should be noted my Avatar, is literally the PCB from an O2 that I built myself.. one of the first kits available. Im not deaf to measurements and what they mean.


----------



## Zachik

runeight said:


> Yes. But this kind of thing spreads around and becomes fixed in people's minds. I'm not happy about it.


Alex - one of the things I have learned early on: in this hobby is, everything is very subjective. I have countless examples of equipment that tests great, but I do not personally like!
People that make their buying decisions based on a measurement alone, without reading more reviews (for starts) and then audition it - are not worth your time or effort.
I can understand how someone throwing mud on your creation sucks, but here is the internet for you...  
(especially since in this case the "engineering theory" behind the scenes is flawed)


----------



## Byronb

Some people just want to watch the world burn. Amir brings nothing of any value to audio conversations. Sorry to be harsh, but I am really tired of him slinging mud at equipment that the vast majority of owners are more than happy with. IMHO he is nothing more than a troll with measuring equipment.


----------



## jsmiller58

Zachik said:


> Alex - one of the things I have learned early on: in this hobby is, everything is very subjective. I have countless examples of equipment that tests great, but I do not personally like!
> People that make their buying decisions based on a measurement alone, without reading more reviews (for starts) and then audition it - are not worth your time or effort.
> I can understand how someone throwing mud on your creation sucks, but here is the internet for you...
> (especially since in this case the "engineering theory" behind the scenes is flawed)


Question...  is the theory flawed, or the execution flawed.. there’s a difference...  Seems to me that not measuring the LP in balanced and showing where that would rank against others is poor execution, or selective execution.  

The theory that a device should measure well if it is to perform well across a wide range of possible use cases is not flawed.  Hard to get right - sure.  Flawed, I don’t agree.


----------



## Zachik

jsmiller58 said:


> Question...  is the theory flawed, or the execution flawed.. there’s a difference...  Seems to me that not measuring the LP in balanced and showing where that would rank against others is poor execution, or selective execution.
> 
> The theory that a device should measure well if it is to perform well across a wide range of possible use cases is not flawed.  Hard to get right - sure.  Flawed, I don’t agree.


There is no argument here that the execution is definitely selective at best... Reminds me of high-school physics lab experiments - we'd keep massaging and "fine tuning" the experiment execution until the actual measurements were close enough to the calculated results  

As for the whole science behind audio measurements - you cannot win that war, so I will not even go there 
All I would say on the subject is that I belong to the camp that choose what my ears and brain prefer. Not what the oscilloscope prefer. 
Often times - those 2 are NOT in agreement, and I do not care if I like the "poorly measured" equipment better


----------



## jsmiller58

Zachik said:


> There is no argument here that the execution is definitely selective at best... Reminds me of high-school physics lab experiments - we'd keep massaging and "fine tuning" the experiment execution until the actual measurements were close enough to the calculated results
> 
> As for the whole science behind audio measurements - you cannot win that war, so I will not even go there
> All I would say on the subject is that I belong to the camp that choose what my ears and brain prefer. Not what the oscilloscope prefer.
> Often times - those 2 are NOT in agreement, and I do not care if I like the "poorly measured" equipment better


Well a couple of responses, where I will disagree a little and agree a whole lot more.

To get it out of the way first - BUY WHAT YOU LIKE AND CAN AFFORD!  There, you don’t need to read anything else I write in this response 

As to measurement based analysis...  I am an electrical engineer, so biased to want to see, and believe, the numbers.  But, I am experienced enough to know that no numbers are ever enough to tell the full story.  I am also an executive who has led massive organizations and know that any subjective report to me is incomplete.  I always triangulate the numbers and the anecdotal reports.  In the case of audio, an amp may sound heavenly to you...  until you change your DAC, or more likely your headphones.  Then the sound might change for the worse.  Hence why knowing the measurements helps make an informed purchase.

I just read the full ASR thread.  All in all I thought it was pretty benign, if not incomplete as Amir admits to not being able to do a good job on balanced measurements...  In general I think that Amir should really avoid reviewing gear that he can’t completely measure, especially if what he can’t measure is a critical part of the value prop.

As to me, well, I am kicking myself for missing the big Monoprice sale...!


----------



## atomicbob

Let me get this straight. Someone can afford an APx555 analyzer and then doesn't take the minimal extra step of constructing a Neutrik NC4MX breakout cable for 30R and 300R loading of each channel with other side of resistor loads having cable to pair of NC3MXX to plug into the analyzer balanced inputs? To make measurements on an amplifier whose chief feature is balanced operation with unbalanced as a convenience feature? And people take this seriously because of the APx555? A complex instrument requiring depth of knowledge, experience and skill of the user to achieve reliable, high quality measurements. By the way, the same can be said for any of the analyzers, dScope, Avermetrics, Rohde & Schwarz, SRS, etc.

See setup picture here for example of how easy it is to make balanced measurements with a little effort using a soldering iron and readily available parts:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monoprice-cavalli-liquid-platinum-technical-measurements.894843/
That setup picture is a visual how-to for balanced measurements.


----------



## jsmiller58

atomicbob said:


> Let me get this straight. Someone can afford an APx555 analyzer and then doesn't take the minimal extra step of constructing a Neutrik NC4MX breakout cable for 30R and 300R loading of each channel with other side of resistor loads having cable to pair of NC3MXX to plug into the analyzer balanced inputs? To make measurements on an amplifier whose chief feature is balanced operation with unbalanced as a convenience feature? And people take this seriously because of the APx555? A complex instrument requiring depth of knowledge, experience and skill of the user to achieve reliable, high quality measurements. By the way, the same can be said for any of the analyzers, dScope, Avermetrics, Rohde & Schwarz, SRS, etc.
> 
> See setup picture here for example of how easy it is to make balanced measurements with a little effort using a soldering iron and readily available parts:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monoprice-cavalli-liquid-platinum-technical-measurements.894843/
> That setup picture is a visual how-to for balanced measurements.


In my opinion, but I am willing to strongly defend that opinion, this is the wrong place to post this feedback/idea, as this site is neither ASR, nor is this a thread to either defend or attack Amir or his work.  

Post it on ASR where it can (a) be appreciated, (b) debated, and (c) used if desired by the principals involved.


----------



## Rattle

jsmiller58 said:


> In my opinion, but I am willing to strongly defend that opinion, this is the wrong place to post this feedback/idea, as this site is neither ASR, nor is this a thread to either defend or attack Amir or his work.
> 
> Post it on ASR where it can (a) be appreciated, (b) debated, and (c) used if desired by the principals involved.



How is this the wrong place ? There's tons of people that should know who doesn't know their ass from their elbow and who does...


----------



## jsmiller58 (Mar 17, 2019)

Rattle said:


> How is this the wrong place ? There's tons of people that should know who doesn't know their ass from their elbow and who does...


Wrong place because posting here does no one a lick of good.  @atomicbob and Amir have a long and colorful history of mutual dislike and disagreements.  Everyone, even the inhabitants on a planet around Alpha Centauri know this.  But if someone wants to point out an individual’s flawed approach, have the decency, courtesy, and courage to go to their site and do so.  Otherwise it is just talking behind someone’s back.

And, no, I am not defending Amir.  Notice I said he shouldn’t review stuff that he can’t adequately measure, especially if that feature is critical to the value prop.

I just wish everyone would behave like grownups.


----------



## Odin412

Zachik said:


> All I would say on the subject is that I belong to the camp that choose what my ears and brain prefer. Not what the oscilloscope prefer.
> Often times - those 2 are NOT in agreement, and I do not care if I like the "poorly measured" equipment better



I'm in the same camp - plus, I find it hard to believe that something as complex as how the human brain perceives sound can be quantified by a few measurements.


----------



## runeight

Ah, ducking back in here for a bit. As you know gents, I don't post much to the forums.

Several things..............

It seems quite reasonable to me for people on a forum dedicated to a particular product to have a discussion about measurements of that product that appeared on another website. If it were not proper to do this then I think most of the Web might have to shutdown. 

However, there are a few constraints that most people abide by:

1. To not let any particular discussion that may outside of the direct intention of the thread to consume the conversation and divert it. I don't think this was happening here and, probably, this part of the conversation would have wound down fairly soon as other topics were introduced and all that wanted to be said was said.

2. The conversation does not include personal attacks. I haven't seen this here (though I could have missed something) although Amir has been noted and his general philosophy and methodology have been attributed to him insofar as they can be discerned from his public persona.

Providing that these constraints are met, I don't think any conversation on any forum about any other forum or website is inappropriate. Amir is free to read this forum if he wishes to and to make posts about his review  and the comments here about it. Or not. As any of us would be free to go to his website and do the same if we were so inclined.

But, I know, we may disagree and yet still talk to each other.


----------



## TK16

Odin412 said:


> I'm in the same camp - plus, I find it hard to believe that something as complex as how the human brain perceives sound can be quantified by a few measurements.


I'm in the same camp, I let my brain and ears tell me what to like, love or hate.


----------



## runeight

Odin412 said:


> I'm in the same camp - plus, I find it hard to believe that something as complex as how the human brain perceives sound can be quantified by a few measurements.



Ah. This particular conversation has been a mainstay of the audio world since I first learned to walk. There have been many on either side and some on both sides.

Over the decades, IIRC, there have been some amps that measured as pure as a diamond, but they somehow didn't recreate music. There were some that didn't measure so well and they were liked by many. SET amps are among the latter. Also, it is definitely true that listening tastes can be quite different depending which part of the world you are from or in.

I think that our science and our listening experiences have not quite yet crystalized into a uniform understanding of how it all works. I suspect this is because we have not yet and probably really can't measure everything that needs to be measured for a particular individual's listening experience. OTOH, we are measuring basic things that, when done right, do give baseline information on the character and design quality of any particular amp.

It's the best we can do for now. My philosophy has been to shoot for good solid measurements while at the same time reaching for that quality of musicality that people can really hear. Sometimes it has worked.


----------



## jsmiller58

runeight said:


> Ah, ducking back in here for a bit. As you know gents, I don't post much to the forums.
> 
> Several things..............
> 
> ...


Excellent points.  But, I am sure you and I will disagree on one fundamental issue - if A has a problem with B they should constructively confront that problem.  That is the root of training I received many years ago in a corporate culture class I took at an employer.

And we all should care that these two individuals - blessed with skills and resources virtually none of the rest of us can even dream of having - put their feud aside and collaborate.  Why?  Insofar as they get different answers to the same problem we, as consumers who look to them as a limited resource, are left scratching our heads as to who to believe.

Carry on.


----------



## gtb75

jsmiller58 said:


> Notice I said he shouldn’t review stuff that he can’t adequately measure, especially if that feature is critical to the value prop.



This 

I am a member over there and, while I find some of the insights his reviews provide helpful, the fact he doesn't seem to pay attention to manufacturer recommendations puzzles me. The discussion here where he is focusing on SE measurements for a balanced amp like the Liquid Platinum is a flawed approach at best. Yes the Liquid Platinum has a SE output but it, and other Cavalli designs like the Liquid Carbon, are balanced amps. I can only assume he focuses on SE because he wants a level playing field (or can't properly measure balanced), but this doesn't make sense for a balanced amp design.

I also took issue with his review of the Fiio K3, where he used the default Windows 10 driver rather than the XMOS driver mentioned in the Fiio instructions. I don't have measuring equipment, but I definitely heard a difference with the XMOS driver, and it's what the instructions recommended. Regardless, the instructions said use that driver so that's what he should have used. What is the point of going through the exercise if you don't pay attention to manufacturer recommendations for a given product?

Again I find his site and his perspective useful to a point but, like everything you read on forums, getting perspectives from multiple sources is always a good idea.


----------



## kumar402

Don’t fret guys. Finally after all those measurement in his conclusion he said he really enjoyed his 650 driven by the amp. He was not very critical and he ended up enjoying it.
Who cares about the measurement if you end up enjoying the sound coming out of it.
In his DAC measurement, SMSL SU8 performed better then chord Mojo. I own both but I always end up using Mojo as SMSL sounds thin to me compared to Mojo. Mojo has better tonality and weight in the vocals. It doesn’t matter to me if SMSL performed better then Mojo in measurement. Listening is very subjective thing and products can’t be refuted based on measurement alone unless it is horrible.


----------



## jsmiller58 (Mar 17, 2019)

gtb75 said:


> This
> 
> I am a member over there and, while I find some of the insights his reviews provide helpful, the fact he doesn't seem to pay attention to manufacturer recommendations puzzles me. The discussion here where he is focusing on SE measurements for a balanced amp like the Liquid Platinum is a flawed approach at best. Yes the Liquid Platinum has a SE output but it, and other Cavalli designs like the Liquid Carbon, are balanced amps. I can only assume he focuses on SE because he wants a level playing field (or can't properly measure balanced), but this doesn't make sense for a balanced amp design.
> 
> ...


I agree.  Getting perspectives from multiple sources is always the RIGHT idea!  But I think that is even more important when the perspectives are fundamentally subjective...  if they are objective, I look at these measurements in a very basic way - the same (or very similar) hardware should always arrive at the same measurement answer, barring some large product under test variance.  When in my professional life I have two people give me different answers to a question that objectively should only have one answer, I tell them to go away and get their act together.  Of course there is always the question about what to do with the data, but first at least have the same data when measuring the same thing with the same equipment.


----------



## jsmiller58

kumar402 said:


> Don’t fret guys. Finally after all those measurement in his conclusion he said he really enjoyed his 650 driven by the amp. He was not very critical and he ended up enjoying it.
> Who cares about the measurement if you end up enjoying the sound coming out of it.
> In his DAC measurement, SMSL SU8 performed better then chord Mojo. I own both but I always end up using Mojo as SMSL sounds thin to me compared to Mojo. Mojo has better tonality and weight in the vocals. It doesn’t matter to me if SMSL performed better then Mojo in measurement. Listening is very subjective thing and products can’t be refuted based on measurement alone unless it is horrible.


YAY!  As I said in post #1902, “BUY WHAT YOU LIKE AND CAN AFFORD”


----------



## jb77

Zachik said:


> All I would say on the subject is that I belong to the camp that choose what my ears and brain prefer. Not what the oscilloscope prefer. Often times - those 2 are NOT in agreement, and I do not care if I like the "poorly measured" equipment better





Odin412 said:


> I'm in the same camp - plus, I find it hard to believe that something as complex as how the human brain perceives sound can be quantified by a few measurements.



I also go by what my ears tell me, however I do believe that measurements when done correctly do have there place in audio especially to have a baseline of information, not an “end all be all” in your decision making process!


----------



## Relaxasaurus

Does anyone stack anything on top of the LP? My DAC just fits behind the tubes but the amount of heat this amp outputs wants me to put it elsewhere. Desk space, though, is at a premium


----------



## heliosphann

Relaxasaurus said:


> Does anyone stack anything on top of the LP? My DAC just fits behind the tubes but the amount of heat this amp outputs wants me to put it elsewhere. Desk space, though, is at a premium



Yea, I don't think that's a good idea...


----------



## Relaxasaurus

heliosphann said:


> Yea, I don't think that's a good idea...


Glad I asked. I just bought this from the classifieds here today and it's my first tube amp. Bummer it gets so hot.

Anyone have power consumption info on the LP? Can't seem to find it on the Monoprice site or documentation...


----------



## heliosphann

Relaxasaurus said:


> Glad I asked. I just bought this from the classifieds here today and it's my first tube amp. Bummer it gets so hot.
> 
> Anyone have power consumption info on the LP? Can't seem to find it on the Monoprice site or documentation...



I think it's posted in this thread. Do a search and you should be able to find it.


----------



## jb77 (Mar 18, 2019)

MikeW said:


> Monitor riser's on amazon are about 15 bucks... mine was 30 but it's a dually. @Zachit I'd never call Jotunheim cold and clinical, it's a pretty warm amp overall, but the treble is slightly hot, works with HD650 but could be a problem for others. I can't recommend the Jotunheim integrated dac though, I owned the Multibit Module and the Gen1 balanced, I hear the Gen2 balanced is the best, but I was never impressed with the performance of the DAC. The ADI-2 is a way better AIO, albeit at much higher cost. LP will take the best dac you can throw at it.. it's got ton's of resolution and fine details. I recently listened to it with Iphone, PC Realtek 1150, Jotunheim balanced pre-out with multibit module, and an older tda1543x8 dac I had laying around. LP really shows the source alot and I could very easily hear differences between all of the above. And i'd rank them as follows
> 
> Iphone SE
> PC Realtek 1150
> ...





MikeW said:


> It's a little bigger then i'd like, but it's very sturdy, and heavy, well made, affordable, black, and the vented design helps keep LP cool.
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FN556G3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> I really liked this one too, honorable mention:
> ...





Relaxasaurus said:


> Does anyone stack anything on top of the LP? My DAC just fits behind the tubes but the amount of heat this amp outputs wants me to put it elsewhere. Desk space, though, is at a premium



Being as warm as the LP gets I would not recommend putting your SMSL SU-8 on top of it, in the above quotes I listed something that might help, you can check to see if this would work for your setup. Click to expand the first quote and it will show a picture of what other members have used for space constraints. Second quote has the links. Thanks @MikeW for the information, he helped another member in this fourm with the above.


----------



## omniweltall

Relaxasaurus said:


> Does anyone stack anything on top of the LP? My DAC just fits behind the tubes but the amount of heat this amp outputs wants me to put it elsewhere. Desk space, though, is at a premium


Why dont u attach some rubber legs on the dac? Taller ones, to be safe.


----------



## VintageAudio

VintageAudio said:


> Thanks for your thoughts.  I'm about 50 hours into the burn in and I "think" I have notice an improvement in the sound...much of the top end glare I was experiencing and found fatiguing seems to be more under control now.  I do still think the vocals are slightly recessed relative to my other headphone amp.
> 
> Overall it's sounding better, clean and crispy and starting to fill out.
> 
> ...




All - just thought i'd share my findings.  So after 100+ hours of burn in, the sound of the LP does improve.  

My signal path is Macbook via USB to ADI-2 DAC fs via balanced to Monoprice Cavalli Liquid Platinum (balanced XLR) output to Hifiman Susvara.

The top end glare goes away after the burn-in, and the sound is pretty crispy pristine.  However, after A-B against susvara to speaker taps, its seems to be missing something.

I notice the vocals are still recessed and lacks meat on the bones.  I tried to tweak this with the EQ on the ADI-2, but its not easy to fix.  I prefer to save my $700 USD (almost $1000 CAD), and go with 1 fewer boxes for a more fuller sound.  It's not as clean from speaker taps, but just less fatiguing.

I found that through the 1/4" jack on the ADI-2, when you put it high-power mode, it can also drive the Susvaras.  The separation and blackness of 1/4" output is not as good as on balanced XLR, but if you wanted an DAC/HPA combo without having extra boxes, you can get by with it.

May look at the Massdrop AAA 789 when they become more readily available.


----------



## jasonho

I saw someone posting this rack stand before but I can’t remember where he bought it from.


----------



## jb77

jasonho said:


> I saw someone posting this rack stand before but I can’t remember where he bought it from.



The link is for amazon, 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FN556G3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Wes S

Anyone looking for some killer tubes.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/293010096443

These are Brimar CV2492, and are not Mullard, as the seller has them listed.


----------



## kumar402

Wes S said:


> Anyone looking for some killer tubes.
> 
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/293010096443
> 
> These are Brimar CV2492, and are not Mullard, as the seller has them listed.


How much did you pay for it. Currently it is going around $95 with shipping


----------



## Cho Worsh (Jan 20, 2020)

Edited: The Goldpoint single ended rca version level control seemed to degrade the sound quality of the LP amp so I sold the LP and no longer have to deal with the volume control issue. Looking forward to trying the Liquid Gold (with switchable hi/lo gain) when it is available.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Cho Worsh said:


> +1 for the Goldpoint. With it and a very short, very low capacitance wide bandwidth interconnect cable, I worked around the volume control issue without compromising the SQ like the SYS did.


No comment on Goldpoint, I'm sure it's great, but as an alternative @ similar pricing, consider Hattor Mini through http://mockingbirddistribution.com/hattor-audio/ (in US) or direct from Poland @ http://hattor.com/

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...by-alex-cavalli.876406/page-123#post-14827174

I continue to be very pleased with the sound, and build is top-notch.

From another location:


			
				I said:
			
		

> Hattor has definitely found a permanent home in my system, Emotiva will go up for sale. Apparently I really want as transparent a preamp as possible, and the Hattor is accomplishing that in my system.
> 
> This is another step in my understanding of my own audio preferences. Emotiva was a little wet -- OK, even desirable, with SS amps and cans like Utopia/Auteur. Undesirable with LP tube/hybrid amp. LP is wetter than SS amps (Bryston and previously, Violectric). Desirable with most of my cans, but not with Empyrean, which I prefer with my Bryston. So I guess I can say that I like my sound damp, not wet


----------



## kumar402

Cho Worsh said:


> +1 for the Goldpoint. With it and a very short, very low capacitance wide bandwidth interconnect cable, I worked around the volume control issue without compromising the SQ like the SYS did.[QUOTE="atomicbob, post:


Problem is it is same price what I paid for LP. 
I have reduced the output volt of my DAC to 1v and using SYS at 3. As per measurement there shouldnt be much degradation at 3 and impedence is also OK at 3.


----------



## kumar402

Wes S said:


> Anyone looking for some killer tubes.
> 
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/293010096443
> 
> These are Brimar CV2492, and are not Mullard, as the seller has them listed.


I went on a bidding war for these but got outbidded at the last moment. It went for around $110 with shipping


----------



## LCMusicLover

kumar402 said:


> Problem is it is same price what I paid for LP.
> I have reduced the output volt of my DAC to 1v and using SYS at 3. As per measurement there shouldnt be much degradation at 3 and impedence is also OK at 3.


Yep, there just aren't that many balanced preamps out there, and prices reflect that lack of supply.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

I am incredibly disapointed. That’s my second replacement Liquid Platinum that is deffective with the same problem. The LP is simply not starting and it’s not coming from any problematic setting fro my part. I had tones of of amps before withiut any problem.
Has anybody had experience with replacing the amp with Moniprice AFTER the 30 day period ?
I’m nervous avout this I have to say...


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## LCMusicLover

Serge Bernamej said:


> I am incredibly disapointed. That’s my second replacement Liquid Platinum that is deffective with the same problem. The LP is simply not starting and it’s not coming from any problematic setting fro my part. I had tones of of amps before withiut any problem.
> Has anybody had experience with replacing the amp with Moniprice AFTER the 30 day period ?
> I’m nervous avout this I have to say...


Man, that sucks!


----------



## kumar402

Serge Bernamej said:


> I am incredibly disapointed. That’s my second replacement Liquid Platinum that is deffective with the same problem. The LP is simply not starting and it’s not coming from any problematic setting fro my part. I had tones of of amps before withiut any problem.
> Has anybody had experience with replacing the amp with Moniprice AFTER the 30 day period ?
> I’m nervous avout this I have to say...


They have 5 years replacement warranty so you shouldn't be worried about crossing 30 days. But yes, it is disappointing to receive a faulty Unit.


----------



## Wes S

kumar402 said:


> I went on a bidding war for these but got outbidded at the last moment. It went for around $110 with shipping


That is a killer price, for what these tubes can do.  Honestly, I dont know why, they go so cheap, compared, to some of the other "holy grail" 6922.


----------



## MikeW

Serge Bernamej said:


> I am incredibly disapointed. That’s my second replacement Liquid Platinum that is deffective with the same problem. The LP is simply not starting and it’s not coming from any problematic setting fro my part. I had tones of of amps before withiut any problem.
> Has anybody had experience with replacing the amp with Moniprice AFTER the 30 day period ?
> I’m nervous avout this I have to say...



That sucks, if it happend to me i'd be real tempted to sell my replacement unit after verifying everything worked. Bummer man, as stated it should not be an issue getting a replacement unit. Monoprice is a big company with a decent track record.


----------



## MikeW (Mar 24, 2019)

LCMusicLover said:


> Yep, there just aren't that many balanced preamps out there, and prices reflect that lack of supply.



Yeah, the value proposition of super expensive balanced attenuation is a head scratcher though.. for what those cost your half way or more to just buying a good quality balanced DAC with volume control. Some don't even cost as much as the attenuator. I guess if your matching it with a megabuck 2K+ dac (that does not have volume control) and a super expensive 2k+ amp, with 2K headphones, it might make sense to spend 600+$ on this overpriced attenuator. Otherwise, funds better spent elsewhere.

Another reason I really love the ADI-2.. I like the LP, but if I could only keep one device, it's a no brainer, the ADI-2 is exceptional for the money. You just get so much, no the amp's not as good as LP, but it's quite good in it's own right. (think THX789/Jotunheim) It's rather hard to fathom spending 600+$ on an attenuator if your not rocking a Yggy or Convert-2, or Crane song, or some other high end dac... of course convert and crane song have attenuation.. so scratch those, in fact most high end dac's do this already.

So usually, someone who's in the market for a 600$ attenuator like this also owns a high end dac or amp to go with it, else nothing makes sense, and most of said gear has gain switches and or volume attenuation. What a tiny market.. first you need a really high end amp that lacks gain, then you need a really good dac that also lacks gain control. Maybe some esoteric or vintage gear.. I dunno, tiny tiny use case. 

The thought of pairing a 600$ attenuator with a Modi Multibit is lunacy though.


----------



## runeight

Serge Bernamej said:


> I am incredibly disapointed. That’s my second replacement Liquid Platinum that is deffective with the same problem. The LP is simply not starting and it’s not coming from any problematic setting fro my part. I had tones of of amps before withiut any problem.
> Has anybody had experience with replacing the amp with Moniprice AFTER the 30 day period ?
> I’m nervous avout this I have to say...



Have any of the MP customer service people tried to diagnose the problem with you? It is extraordinarily unlikely that two amps in a row would fail like this. When you say they are not starting, what exactly are they doing?


----------



## LCMusicLover

MikeW said:


> Yeah, the value proposition of super expensive balanced attenuation is a head scratcher though.. for what those cost your half way or more to just buying a good quality balanced DAC with volume control. Some don't even cost as much as the attenuator. I guess if your matching it with a megabuck 2K+ dac (that does not have volume control) and a super expensive 2k+ amp, with 2K headphones, it might make sense to spend 600+$ on this overpriced attenuator. Otherwise, funds better spent elsewhere.
> 
> Another reason I really love the ADI-2.. I like the LP, but if I could only keep one device, it's a no brainer, the ADI-2 is exceptional for the money. You just get so much, no the amp's not as good as LP, but it's quite good in it's own right. (think THX789/Jotunheim) It's rather hard to fathom spending 600+$ on an attenuator if your not rocking a Yggy or Convert-2, or Crane song, or some other high end dac... of course convert and crane song have attenuation.. so scratch those, in fact most high end dac's do this already.
> 
> ...


Well, I justified it because of the remote source selection/volume control, as well as the ability to drive two amps at once. I did have a (different) preamp prior to owning LP. And just to really out myself, my new preamp cost $810.

I guess I'm just lazy


----------



## lukeslens

kumar402 said:


> I went on a bidding war for these but got outbidded at the last moment. It went for around $110 with shipping


There's a pair here at a good price. They've got the KB/AD label: https://www.ebay.com/itm/3125304429...570.l6027&_trkparms=gh1g=I312530442905.N35.S1


----------



## tommyk

jb77 said:


> The link is for amazon,
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FN556G3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1



Sorry, a bit late to the "risers" thread but I bought and like the Fitueyes glass risers, which are also stackable and buying 2-pack is cheaper than 2 singles if you think you need a couple of them (I bought 4 of them personally).
Just in case someone finds it useful b/c I spent a good deal of time to find these:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=fitueyes+monitor+stand


----------



## runeight

Hey gents, I've been getting questions about using 12AX7s or 12AU7s in the Platinum. I highly recommend that you do not do this. These tubes do not fall within any operating region that the Platinum is designed to handle.

Please keep in mind that the LP expects to see 6922s or equivalents (meaning very close operating points). It isn't reasonable to expect that it can take an arbitrary tube type and make it work. While it is not visible to you, what the LP has to do to bring some of these tubes into operation is outside of its safe operating area. As long as you stick to properly operating 6922s it will remain well within its safe operating regime.

Near arbitrary tube rolling is what the Liquid Glass was designed to do.


----------



## jasonho

@runeight 

Hi Alex，just a quick question while you are on this thread.  If I am only using single ended output, does it make sense to upgrade from CTH to LP?


----------



## runeight

jasonho said:


> @runeight
> 
> Hi Alex，just a quick question while you are on this thread.  If I am only using single ended output, does it make sense to upgrade from CTH to LP?



That depends. The SE output from these amps will have a slightly different sound and you may like the LP better. Or, if you think you'll be getting balanced headphone cables, then the LP would be a good move.

But if you know that you'll only ever be using SE out the LP is paying for performance that you will never be able to use. In that case the CTH gives you the better performance for the dollars you are spending.


----------



## Phantaminum

runeight said:


> Hey gents, I've been getting questions about using 12AX7s or 12AU7s in the Platinum. I highly recommend that you do not do this. These tubes do not fall within any operating region that the Platinum is designed to handle.
> 
> Please keep in mind that the LP expects to see 6922s or equivalents (meaning very close operating points). It isn't reasonable to expect that it can take an arbitrary tube type and make it work. While it is not visible to you, what the LP has to do to bring some of these tubes into operation is outside of its safe operating area. As long as you stick to properly operating 6922s it will remain well within its safe operating regime.
> 
> Near arbitrary tube rolling is what the Liquid Glass was designed to do.



It’s confirmed. MCLG soon to be released.


----------



## runeight

Phantaminum said:


> It’s confirmed. MCLG soon to be released.



Ha. Don't tempt me........I'm too old.


----------



## Odin412

runeight said:


> Near arbitrary tube rolling is what the Liquid Glass was designed to do.



Here's hoping for a Massdrop or Monoprice version of the Liquid Glass! (And the Liquid Gold, too.)


----------



## jasonho

Odin412 said:


> Here's hoping for a Massdrop or Monoprice version of the Liquid Glass! (And the Liquid Gold, too.)



Here's hoping for a Massdrop or Monoprice version of the Liquid Glass! (And the Liquid Gold, too.)


----------



## Wes S (Mar 25, 2019)

runeight said:


> Hey gents, I've been getting questions about using 12AX7s or 12AU7s in the Platinum. I highly recommend that you do not do this. These tubes do not fall within any operating region that the Platinum is designed to handle.
> 
> Please keep in mind that the LP expects to see 6922s or equivalents (meaning very close operating points). It isn't reasonable to expect that it can take an arbitrary tube type and make it work. While it is not visible to you, what the LP has to do to bring some of these tubes into operation is outside of its safe operating area. As long as you stick to properly operating 6922s it will remain well within its safe operating regime.
> 
> Near arbitrary tube rolling is what the Liquid Glass was designed to do.


This is why, I have been staying with 6922.  Good to know, I have not done any damage to my "Baby".  Thanks for clearing that up!


----------



## Phantaminum

runeight said:


> Ha. Don't tempt me........I'm too old.



I'd love to see some of your higher end amps produced again.

Realistically, I understand that Massdrop's model is geared towards bulk buys and low prices but then I see how well the LP has done at Monoprice. People are buying the MCTH, MCLX, and last I checked the LP was sold out even with a price hike. So it looks like you're 3 out of 3 how about we make it 4 out of 4, lol.

If it helps, I have a $50 GC to Luby's.


----------



## runeight

Phantaminum said:


> I'd love to see some of your higher end amps produced again.
> 
> Realistically, I understand that Massdrop's model is geared towards bulk buys and low prices but then I see how well the LP has done at Monoprice. People are buying the MCTH, MCLX, and last I checked the LP was sold out even with a price hike. So it looks like you're 3 out of 3 how about we make it 4 out of 4, lol.
> 
> If it helps, I have a $50 GC to Luby's.



You must be a Texas boy if you have a gift certificate to Luby's. There is one not too far from me. 

As for new stuff, just hang in...............


----------



## Zachik

Phantaminum said:


> Realistically, I understand that Massdrop's model is geared towards bulk buys and low prices but then I see how well the LP has done at Monoprice. People are buying the MCTH, MCLX, and last I checked the LP was sold out even with a price hike. So it looks like you're 3 out of 3 how about we make it 4 out of 4, lol.


You forgot the Monoprice Liquid Spark. Alex is 4 for 4 already!


----------



## heliosphann

Tungsten say what???


----------



## UsoppNoKami

+1: Gen 2 MC glass / gold would be cool...


----------



## LCMusicLover

runeight said:


> Hey gents, I've been getting questions about using 12AX7s or 12AU7s in the Platinum. I highly recommend that you do not do this. These tubes do not fall within any operating region that the Platinum is designed to handle.
> 
> Please keep in mind that the LP expects to see 6922s or equivalents (meaning very close operating points). It isn't reasonable to expect that it can take an arbitrary tube type and make it work. While it is not visible to you, what the LP has to do to bring some of these tubes into operation is outside of its safe operating area. As long as you stick to properly operating 6922s it will remain well within its safe operating regime.
> 
> Near arbitrary tube rolling is what the Liquid Glass was designed to do.


Just to be clear, all of these:

6922
ECC88
E88CC
E188CC
CCa
PCC88
7308
CV2492
6DJ8

are OK, correct?


----------



## Wes S (Mar 25, 2019)

LCMusicLover said:


> Just to be clear, all of these:
> 
> 6922
> ECC88
> ...


All but the PCC88/7dj8 are good.  My next post has Dr. Cavalli's response to pcc88/7dj8.

CV2493/E88CC-01 is another ok one.


----------



## Wes S (Mar 25, 2019)

runeight said:


> 7DJ8 will be running 1V low on its heaters which will cause the cathode to run cooler which will reduce its emission. It may not give a good result. I'm not sure how this sub can be used in other products without significantly affecting the sound unless there is some internal compensation built in to the product. But I know that people are doing it.
> 
> I can only recommend that you all stay with 6922 or exact equivalents.



I found post about pcc88/7dj8.


----------



## Wes S

runeight said:


> You must be a Texas boy if you have a gift certificate to Luby's. There is one not too far from me.
> 
> As for new stuff, just hang in...............


I am saving my pennies, starting now. . .


----------



## Serge Bernamej

MikeW said:


> That sucks, if it happend to me i'd be real tempted to sell my replacement unit after verifying everything worked. Bummer man, as stated it should not be an issue getting a replacement unit. Monoprice is a big company with a decent track record.


I have to say that they see to be having a great service right now. Offering a refund. But I love the amp !!! Tempted to try A THIRD TIME. But very hesitant as you might guess.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

runeight said:


> Have any of the MP customer service people tried to diagnose the problem with you? It is extraordinarily unlikely that two amps in a row would fail like this. When you say they are not starting, what exactly are they doing?


I suspect they did not send me a full replacement unit but repared it or something (change the power brick?) because it’s the same problem that came up. The amp is just not starting up, no light nothing. With or without tubes. And when I start it up the brick flashes the green light on and off...it blinks. 
Any recommendation for a similar sounding amp (even if SS) in that price range? violetric?


----------



## TK16

LCMusicLover said:


> Just to be clear, all of these:
> 
> 6922
> ECC88
> ...


PCC88 tubes work at 6.3v  and Brent Jessee mentions they will last longer running at 6.3  spec 7v. vs ECC88.


----------



## runeight

TK16 said:


> PCC88 tubes work at 6.3v  and Brent Jessee mentions they will last longer running at 6.3  spec 7v. vs ECC88.



Even though the pcc88s will operate at 6.3V (because their cathodes do heat up) does NOT mean that they can be biased properly by the LP. In order to get the cathode current it needs to see from a cooler cathode the LP will have to increase the plate voltage. The servo can do this but will max out at some point and could be out of its safe regime.

Remember that the LP is an embedded hybrid. It is DC coupled so there is no blocking capacitor to separate the tube's operating point from the rest of the SS circuitry. If the tube's op point is far from 6922 it will skew the rest of the circuit, possibly too much. It is not the same as many other tube hybrids and you cannot make the same assumptions about swapping tubes.

MHO is that it is risky to do this without actually measuring what's going on inside the LP with this tube. It maybe be ok, it may not. And, no, not me, I've got other amps to design.


----------



## LCMusicLover

runeight said:


> ...And, no, not me, I've got other amps to design.


Yes you _*DO*_ sir!

Thanks for the response.


----------



## jb77

@runeight What about 6n23p tubes? Can they be used safely in the LP?


----------



## Odin412

runeight said:


> I've got other amps to design.



Excellent - many of us are waiting to see what comes next!


----------



## jb77

jb77 said:


> @runeight What about 6n23p tubes? Can they be used safely in the LP?



Just wanted to make sure @runeight sees this


----------



## Luckbad

jb77 said:


> Just wanted to make sure @runeight sees this



No need to quote yourself from earlier in the day. Do a few minutes of research and you will find that they are exact equivalents.


----------



## jb77 (Mar 25, 2019)

Luckbad said:


> No need to quote yourself from earlier in the day. Do a few minutes of research and you will find that they are exact equivalents.



I did that because it went to a different page and I now know that I didn’t need to repost. I did do research and yes I know it is the equivalent, however @runeight might have a different opinion on it. That is why I asked.


----------



## Phantaminum

jb77 said:


> I did that because it went to a different page and I now know that I didn’t need to repost. I did do research and yes I know it is the equivalent, however @runeight might have a different opinion on it. That is why I asked.



6N23Ps are the Russian equivalent to 6922s. They are fine to use. You can even say the stock Electro Harmonix tubes are 6N23Ps as they are made in Russia and probably use the same tooling.


----------



## lukeslens (Mar 27, 2019)

I finally got my Liquid Platinum on Sunday. Been listening the past couple days and I have to say I am head over heels in love. I have it connected to my ADI-2 via XLR and listening through my Clears, I have to say that this is what I knew they really had in them. I had the CMA600i for awhile and while a very capable amp, it didn't quite deliver the sonics I was really wanting. Having used the Loxjie P20 in the interim and really being completely impressed with what that was capable of I had a feeling that the LP was going to be a nice step-up in the right direction. Man oh man, more than I imagined. And I only have the stock tubes right now, which I was worried, based on other reviews, would be somewhat lacking. Nope. Not even in the least. They sound wonderful. I do have a pair of Brimar CV2492's on their way so I'm really excited to hear what they do to this already spectacular sound signature.

I've been eyeing this puppy for the past three months since first being recommended to me by @LCMusicLover (thanks again!) and I am so absolutely thrilled to finally join the little community of happy Liquid Platinum users. My goal is to eventually upgrade to a more heavy duty TOTL tube headphone amp but until that day I have a feeling this puppy is going to bring me a lot of fun listening sessions. Can't wait to start rolling!!


----------



## cobrabucket

OK y'all I just bought one and I'm stoked. This is my first hybrid amp. I recently sold the THX 789 and still have a Bottlehead Crack [which I love]. I'm guessing there isn't any good reason for me to seek out a solid state amp atm, right? I have a Beyer T1.2 which usually goes out of the Crack. My Denon AH-D7200s were usually out of a THX 789, but I am guessing it would sound good out of the LP? How does the LP fare with IEMs? [prob not the best?] Also, as far as tubes, what's the best bang for you buck option? Thanks guys!


----------



## LCMusicLover

cobrabucket said:


> OK y'all I just bought one and I'm stoked. This is my first hybrid amp. I recently sold the THX 789 and still have a Bottlehead Crack [which I love]. I'm guessing there isn't any good reason for me to seek out a solid state amp atm, right? I have a Beyer T1.2 which usually goes out of the Crack. My Denon AH-D7200s were usually out of a THX 789, but I am guessing it would sound good out of the LP? How does the LP fare with IEMs? [prob not the best?] Also, as far as tubes, what's the best bang for you buck option? Thanks guys!


Congrats!

IEMs are pretty much a no go without some type of attenuation. With my preamp my IT-04s sound great, although  I mostly use it with my full-size cans.

You will probably hear a lot of varying opinions re: tubes. I found Genalex Gold Lions to be an interesting upgrade for reasonable money.


----------



## cobrabucket

What DAC do you use w/ LP? Pontus or Sonica? I have a n SMSL VMV D1 otw. Anyone have any experience with this pairing?


----------



## LCMusicLover

cobrabucket said:


> What DAC do you use w/ LP? Pontus or Sonica? I have a n SMSL VMV D1 otw. Anyone have any experience with this pairing?


I use both DACs, but mostly Pontus.  

Sorry, no experience with your DAC.


----------



## llcook51

cobrabucket said:


> What DAC do you use w/ LP? Pontus or Sonica? I have a n SMSL VMV D1 otw. Anyone have any experience with this pairing?


"You will probably hear a lot of varying opinions re: tubes. I found Genalex Gold Lions to be an interesting upgrade for reasonable money." Totally agree. There are a lot of opinions and a lot of good options. The Gold Lions are good choice at a reasonable price.


----------



## Gauss1777

cobrabucket said:


> OK y'all I just bought one and I'm stoked. This is my first hybrid amp. I recently sold the THX 789 and still have a Bottlehead Crack [which I love]. I'm guessing there isn't any good reason for me to seek out a solid state amp atm, right? I have a Beyer T1.2 which usually goes out of the Crack. My Denon AH-D7200s were usually out of a THX 789, but I am guessing it would sound good out of the LP? How does the LP fare with IEMs? [prob not the best?] Also, as far as tubes, what's the best bang for you buck option? Thanks guys!



Congratulations!  BTW, could you please write some impressions comparing the Crack with the LP? Also, it would be welcome to read a little comparing the 3 amps: THX 789, Crack and LP.  I have the Crack and would like to know how much difference is between the Crack and the LP. Thank you!


----------



## Hansotek

cobrabucket said:


> OK y'all I just bought one and I'm stoked. This is my first hybrid amp. I recently sold the THX 789 and still have a Bottlehead Crack [which I love]. I'm guessing there isn't any good reason for me to seek out a solid state amp atm, right? I have a Beyer T1.2 which usually goes out of the Crack. My Denon AH-D7200s were usually out of a THX 789, but I am guessing it would sound good out of the LP? How does the LP fare with IEMs? [prob not the best?] Also, as far as tubes, what's the best bang for you buck option? Thanks guys!



The LP & Crimson have always been one of the best matches for the T1 & T1.2. I think you'll find it to be a nice upgrade. I haven't heard the Denon D7200, but the old Denons were always a super good match. For IEMs, I found the iFi iEMatch attenuated enough to give you a very useable volume range w/o noticeable signal degradation and it's only $50.


----------



## tommyk

Luckbad said:


> What bothers me the most is that if you search for it on Google to make an informed purchase decision, it pops up as one of the top results. The data is presented somewhat professionally and he appears to be an authority on the subject of audio measurements based on a cursory investigation, so it's likely that there have been people led in the wrong direction by misinformation.
> 
> That's the last thing I'll say on the matter. Perhaps we should steer this thread back toward talking about the amplifier?



Sorry for late reply. Catching up with the thread over the weekend.

I don’t understand the problem some folks have with Amir’s review. He presented his measurement results as he always does for all hardware and the conclusion was actually very favorable:

“Other than some power supply noise that gets through, the Monoprice Liquid Platinum seems well engineered. Performance is the best of any tube headphone amplifier I have tested (I think). We have tons of power which is the #1 think that impacts subjective performance of a headphone amplifier. On this front, it is at the top of the class competing with our reference headphone amplifiers.”

If I was in the market for LP I would consider this a positive and encouraging factor.
Yes, he thinks the price could be lower but it is not outrageous compared to what audiophiles are willing to spend on some gear. I do think it is a good value and I like my unit a lot.


----------



## MikeW

cobrabucket said:


> What DAC do you use w/ LP? Pontus or Sonica? I have a n SMSL VMV D1 otw. Anyone have any experience with this pairing?



I considered this dac for awhile. It is a performance design with very high quality parts. I was put off by it being SMSL and Sabre, but im curious about it's performance none the less. Look forward to your thoughts when you receive it. I know it does have some features, but I can't recall if it has volume attenuation built in.


----------



## jsmiller58

MikeW said:


> I've owned alot of audio gear over the years, it's gear, not pride. I can sell it for what I paid for it(bought it used) tomorrow if I want too. As to  your first point, #1, I was directly addressing the comment from Tommy.. should be obvious. It's a headphone amp, im not married to it, nor do I care if someone does not like it, but like Luckbad's previous post, what amir's doing is pretty disingenuous.



Who cares, is all I have to say.  Clearly Monoprice, Dr Cavalli, and the LP are doing quite well despite any gross injustice done by Amir.

All people are doing on this thread with these comments is, what is called in the South, “Preaching to the Choir”.

As a constructive suggestion, go to ASR board and engage Amir there on the LP review thread.  You may already be doing that, I don’t know as I rarely go to ASR these days (not in the market for any other gear right now), so my apologies if you already have taken the argument there.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

Can we Men in Black the last couple pages of this thread?

I'm finding I'm not really interested in tube rolling and am perfectly fine with the stock tubes and EQ'ing. Am I the only one?


----------



## MikeW (Mar 31, 2019)

The stock tubes are pretty good actually, especially if applying EQ to suite your taste. They do some things really well, being well extended and pretty neutral. If your happy as is, there's no pressing need to try tubes, great thing is if you want to try something out 3 months 6 months or 3 years from now you have options.

I have an excellent hardware EQ at my disposal that I've used with the stock tubes and found them quite nice, so I speak from experience. I've also tried a decent pair of NOS tubes and an ok pair. All 3 were enjoyable.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

MikeW said:


> The stock tubes are pretty good actually, especially if applying EQ to suite your taste. They do some things really well, being well extended and pretty neutral. If your happy as is, there's no pressing need to try tubes, great thing is if you want to try something out 3 months 6 months or 3 years from now you have options.
> 
> I have an excellent hardware EQ at my disposal that I've used with the stock tubes and found them quite nice, so I speak from experience. I've also tried a decent pair of NOS tubes and an ok pair. All 3 were enjoyable.



Good point. You have an RME ADI-2 right? I think that's my next purchase. I love the idea of an external EQ as with most software options you lose bit perfect transport to the DAC. Is it fairly easy to adjust your EQ on the fly?


----------



## MikeW (Apr 1, 2019)

Yeah, it's very easy, you can also save preset's and name them, up to 20 for different headphones or music genres. I love the ADI-2 and is easily the best piece of gear i've ever owned in 15 years of this hobby.


----------



## cobrabucket

LCMusicLover said:


> Congrats!
> 
> IEMs are pretty much a no go without some type of attenuation. With my preamp my IT-04s sound great, although  I mostly use it with my full-size cans.
> 
> You will probably hear a lot of varying opinions re: tubes. I found Genalex Gold Lions to be an interesting upgrade for reasonable money.


I am guessing you mean Genalex Gold Lion ECC88, NOT ECC82, right?


----------



## LCMusicLover

cobrabucket said:


> I am guessing you mean Genalex Gold Lion ECC88, NOT ECC82, right?


Actually, E88CC.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Anybody knows if the passthrough on the LP works only if it’s turned on ?
@runeight


----------



## runeight

Serge Bernamej said:


> Anybody knows if the passthrough on the LP works only if it’s turned on ?
> @runeight



It should work on or off.


----------



## runeight

Gents I have an off topic DAC question for you all.

For any DAC you might have or want to have do you prefer the USB B(big square) connector or the USB C??

Most of the DACs I have seen use a B. Portable ones often use mini (older portables) or micro  but I'm wondering what works best for what people have or might have.

Thanks.


----------



## cobrabucket (Apr 4, 2019)

runeight said:


> Gents I have an off topic DAC question for you all.
> 
> For any DAC you might have or want to have do you prefer the USB B(big square) connector or the USB C??
> 
> ...


I always thought usb c seemed sturdier. I have had usb b ports that got loose over time.


----------



## jinxy245

I'm not really sure I care  I  just wish there was more of a standard.  I don't think either give any sonic advantage.  That being said,  right now I have more B type than C, but I guess C has the advantage of being orientation agnostic.

Short answer,  I guess is C.


----------



## PaganDL

runeight said:


> Gents I have an off topic DAC question for you all.
> 
> For any DAC you might have or want to have do you prefer the USB B(big square) connector or the USB C??
> 
> ...




Hi @runeight,

Personally & subjectively, I have had a lot of good experiences with USB Micro B & I have quite a few devices which use this with no issue.
I find standard B okay only.
I only have a couple USB C devices & so far they are okay to decent but it is too early to tell how they hold up for me over time.
Either Micro B or USB C are fast charge capable too for portable devices.

Regardless of USB connection, honestly, like with anything, it depends on implementation & how they are mounted in the chassis & PCB & had devices with a fair bit of wiggle from the onset.

So all I can say is, at the end of the day, manufacturer's choice though preferrably not standard B.

Hope you have a great day !


----------



## Luckbad

runeight said:


> Gents I have an off topic DAC question for you all.
> 
> For any DAC you might have or want to have do you prefer the USB B(big square) connector or the USB C??
> 
> ...


USB B because I already have them.


----------



## Odin412

runeight said:


> GFor any DAC you might have or want to have do you prefer the USB B(big square) connector or the USB C??



USB B for me - I already have cables, although newer devices seem to have USB C. Also, in a few years there will probably be a USB D or E since all computer-related standards are temporary.


----------



## john57

I still have spare USB B cables and my computer still uses the USB 3 standard. On the other hand I think that the USB type C standards will last longer than the older USB or USB 3 standards.


----------



## Rattle

B always


----------



## Schwibbles

I like B for my home/desktop DACs and C for portable ones. The physically bigger connection feels sturdier and I've never had an issue with a bad/loose connection with a B port.

I really just dislike mini and micro USB.

With the current trend, I would be completely fine to have all my DACs with USB C just for future-proofing. 
USB C is a great upgrade compared to micro USB.


----------



## Zachik

Schwibbles said:


> I like B for my home/desktop DACs and C for portable ones. The physically bigger connection feels sturdier and I've never had an issue with a bad/loose connection with a B port.
> 
> I really just dislike mini and micro USB.
> 
> ...



100% in agreement with *everything* @Schwibbles wrote!


----------



## CoFire

USB-C for longevity, mechanical strength, and better performance requirements if you may be so inclined to use them moving forward.


----------



## lukeslens

Gotta throw my hat in for USB-C as well. I haven't had any issues replacing cables. They're dirt cheap and the connector is the best by far.


----------



## tommyk

+1 for USB-C. This is the future (and it is now)


----------



## sahmen

runeight said:


> Gents I have an off topic DAC question for you all.
> 
> For any DAC you might have or want to have do you prefer the USB B(big square) connector or the USB C??
> 
> ...


@runeight Given that it is you asking this question, may I in turn inquire whether there's some upcoming announcement behind the question, such as a possible Cavalli audio component (DAC/integrated Amp?) currently in the offing? I couldn't help asking, even though I am familiar with how some of the rules of secrecy about upcoming products work in the industry.  I guess you might want to be as non-committal in your response as the appropriate protocols allow, but I just couldn't help asking.


----------



## Malcolm Riverside

For some reason when I use the balanced input on my Liquid Platinum the volume from the balanced output is about half that compared to using the se input. Depending on the headphones I’m usually around 9-10 o’clock on the volume dial w/the se input and at 12 and above w/the balanced input. When I use my Violectric V281 amp the volume is the same out of the balanced output no matter which input I use because the vrms is identical from both the balanced and se output of my dac. @runeight, Is this an intentional feature of the Liquid Platinum? It’s almost like a gain switch is being turned on and off when I switch from one input to the other. Any feedback would be appreciated!


----------



## Gauss1777

Malcolm Riverside said:


> For some reason when I use the balanced input on my Liquid Platinum the volume from the balanced output is about half that compared to using the se input. Depending on the headphones I’m usually around 9-10 o’clock on the volume dial w/the se input and at 12 and above w/the balanced input. When I use my Violectric V281 amp the volume is the same out of the balanced output no matter which input I use because the vrms is identical from both the balanced and se output of my dac. @runeight, Is this an intentional feature of the Liquid Platinum? It’s almost like a gain switch is being turned on and off when I switch from one input to the other. Any feedback would be appreciated!



Hello @Malcolm Riverside, reading your question, while I can't answer you, I take the chance to ask you about your impressions between the Liquid Platinum and Violectric V281. Are they complementary? Or the V281 would be more a do it all and the LP an extra flavour for some beats? Thank you!


----------



## runeight

Malcolm Riverside said:


> For some reason when I use the balanced input on my Liquid Platinum the volume from the balanced output is about half that compared to using the se input. Depending on the headphones I’m usually around 9-10 o’clock on the volume dial w/the se input and at 12 and above w/the balanced input. When I use my Violectric V281 amp the volume is the same out of the balanced output no matter which input I use because the vrms is identical from both the balanced and se output of my dac. @runeight, Is this an intentional feature of the Liquid Platinum? It’s almost like a gain switch is being turned on and off when I switch from one input to the other. Any feedback would be appreciated!



It is not intentional so much as normal. What happens between RCA and Bal depends on the outputs of your source. Let's say a DAC. On most Bal DACs the Bal out is effectively twice the output of the RCA. But, some DACs the Bal and RCA are at the same level.

The LP SE In has a phase splitter which turns the SE to Bal before sending to amp. And this effectively doubles the amplitude of the signal. So if your Bal and RCA outs are the same amplitude then the RCA in will actually be louder.

On my DACs the SE is half the Bal so I can switch the inputs and not really notice that there was a change at all.


----------



## Malcolm Riverside

runeight said:


> It is not intentional so much as normal. What happens between RCA and Bal depends on the outputs of your source. Let's say a DAC. On most Bal DACs the Bal out is effectively twice the output of the RCA. But, some DACs the Bal and RCA are at the same level.
> 
> The LP SE In has a phase splitter which turns the SE to Bal before sending to amp. And this effectively doubles the amplitude of the signal. So if your Bal and RCA outs are the same amplitude then the RCA in will actually be louder.
> 
> On my DACs the SE is half the Bal so I can switch the inputs and not really notice that there was a change at all.


Thank you for the rapid response and the cogent explanation. You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar! 
Does the equal amplitude of my dac’s outputs mean there is less benefit to using the balanced input on the LP then? Or are the benefits of going balanced into the amp less about extra power going in and more about getting a cleaner/quieter signal from my source to my headphones and avoiding the phase splitter?


----------



## runeight

Malcolm Riverside said:


> Thank you for the rapid response and the cogent explanation. You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar!
> Does the equal amplitude of my dac’s outputs mean there is less benefit to using the balanced input on the LP then? Or are the benefits of going balanced into the amp less about extra power going in and more about getting a cleaner/quieter signal from my source to my headphones and avoiding the phase splitter?



MHO is, with a balanced amp go Bal in and Bal out. This is the amps native mode.


----------



## llcook51

Listening to *A Little Love by **Quiana Lynell** streaming Hi-Res via Qobuz. Liquid Platinum and Mr. **Speakers** E2 make a **heavenly** combo.*


----------



## Malcolm Riverside

Gauss1777 said:


> Hello @Malcolm Riverside, reading your question, while I can't answer you, I take the chance to ask you about your impressions between the Liquid Platinum and Violectric V281. Are they complementary? Or the V281 would be more a do it all and the LP an extra flavour for some beats? Thank you!


The LP and the V281 are both great amps but they do have different strengths and qualities. As you’d expect when comparing amps so far apart in price, the more expensive V281 has a lot more features and sounds great so if you can only have one and got the dough, get that one is what I’d say. The Cavalli is well nigh unbeateable at it’s price point though, especially when you throw in the potential for improving/changing it’s sound that tube-rolling offers. Good luck finding one for sale though! 
Anyway, both amps have lots of power and their respective balanced architecture is really well implemented. If you don’t have or plan to buy balanced headphone cables then you’d really be missing out on the full capability of these amps. The LP has great detail and what I’d call an intimate sonic presentation. It really puts you close to the music but I think sacrifices something in terms of imaging and separation around instruments compared to the V281 because of that close up sound. That may be something that could be addressed with fancier tubes than I have right now though—I’m rocking the Genalex Gold Lions. The V281 puts you at a little more distance from the music but it is more dynamic than the LP. I can be listening to something on the LP with my eyes closed just kind of taking in the music and then I’ll switch to the V281 for the same song and seconds later I’ll find my head bobbing along vigorously to the tune without even thinking about it. V281 also does bass at a best in class level, though the LP is no slouch itself. So, does all this make them complementary? I can’t quite say. If I could only have the V281 and one other amp I’d probably go with a straight tube amp as opposed to the hybrid LP, just to maximize the potential of all the different headphones out there. But if I was trying to decide between a tube and solid state amp and looking to not spend a grip, then the Liquid Platinum is an easy best of both worlds choice. Bottom line though is that I can’t think of many quality headphones that wouldn’t sound great on both these amps.


----------



## jmac1516

Malcolm Riverside said:


> The LP and the V281 are both great amps but they do have different strengths and qualities. As you’d expect when comparing amps so far apart in price, the more expensive V281 has a lot more features and sounds great so if you can only have one and got the dough, get that one is what I’d say. The Cavalli is well nigh unbeateable at it’s price point though, especially when you throw in the potential for improving/changing it’s sound that tube-rolling offers. Good luck finding one for sale though!
> Anyway, both amps have lots of power and their respective balanced architecture is really well implemented. If you don’t have or plan to buy balanced headphone cables then you’d really be missing out on the full capability of these amps. The LP has great detail and what I’d call an intimate sonic presentation. It really puts you close to the music but I think sacrifices something in terms of imaging and separation around instruments compared to the V281 because of that close up sound. That may be something that could be addressed with fancier tubes than I have right now though—I’m rocking the Genalex Gold Lions. The V281 puts you at a little more distance from the music but it is more dynamic than the LP. I can be listening to something on the LP with my eyes closed just kind of taking in the music and then I’ll switch to the V281 for the same song and seconds later I’ll find my head bobbing along vigorously to the tune without even thinking about it. V281 also does bass at a best in class level, though the LP is no slouch itself. So, does all this make them complementary? I can’t quite say. If I could only have the V281 and one other amp I’d probably go with a straight tube amp as opposed to the hybrid LP, just to maximize the potential of all the different headphones out there. But if I was trying to decide between a tube and solid state amp and looking to not spend a grip, then the Liquid Platinum is an easy best of both worlds choice. Bottom line though is that I can’t think of many quality headphones that wouldn’t sound great on both these amps.


Malcolm, how would you rate the Pendant in terms of being complimentary to the V281 and can you highlight how it compares to V281 with some of your (awesome) headphones?


----------



## Relaxasaurus

Looks like it's back in stock

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=33305
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07K7YSL41


----------



## LCMusicLover

Relaxasaurus said:


> Looks like it's back in stock
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=33305
> https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07K7YSL41


Also on eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Monolith-L...plifier-Designed-by-Alex-Cavalli/392168189852


----------



## musicfrommemory (Apr 12, 2019)

Hi Everyone - just purchased one of these beauties on Monoprice with the restock they just made - got a newbie question - my source is Tidal via a MacBook Pro - the latest MacBook Pro with a USB-C USB port or the generic headphone line in - I don't own a DAC (last amp was a Lyr 3 with built in DAC) but can purchase one.

Two questions: what cable to go from the MacBook Pro to the amp (or DAC)?
What DAC should I buy (trying to keep it around the $300 mark)?

They LP will be powering a pair of Mr Speakers Ether 2 or an Aeon Open Flow.

Big thanks for all info.

MFM


----------



## kumar402

musicfrommemory said:


> Hi Everyone - just purchased one of these beauties on Monoprice with the restock they just made - got a newbie question - my source is Tidal via a MacBook Pro - the latest MacBook Pro with a USB-C USB port or the generic headphone line in - I don't own a DAC (last amp was a Lyr 3 with built in DAC) but can purchase one.
> 
> Two questions: what cable to go from the MacBook Pro to the amp (or DAC)?
> What DAC should I buy (trying to keep it around the $300 mark)?
> ...


SMSL SU-8 V2 is a balanced DAC with remote for 200 or 249 from Massdrop or Amazon respectively.


----------



## kumar402

musicfrommemory said:


> Hi Everyone - just purchased one of these beauties on Monoprice with the restock they just made - got a newbie question - my source is Tidal via a MacBook Pro - the latest MacBook Pro with a USB-C USB port or the generic headphone line in - I don't own a DAC (last amp was a Lyr 3 with built in DAC) but can purchase one.
> 
> Two questions: what cable to go from the MacBook Pro to the amp (or DAC)?
> What DAC should I buy (trying to keep it around the $300 mark)?
> ...


better you get DAC with ability to control volume or invest in a preamp as well  because you have efficient headphones and there is no gain switch in LP.


----------



## musicfrommemory

kumar402 said:


> better you get DAC with ability to control volume or invest in a preamp as well  because you have efficient headphones and there is no gain switch in LP.



Thank you - one other quick question - I don't have an XLR cable for either of my HPs - assume the balanced quality is lost but will still function?


----------



## Wes S

Relaxasaurus said:


> Looks like it's back in stock
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=33305
> https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07K7YSL41


That just happened today.  Nice, that more can join the club!  With the right tubes, you can really open up the soundstage or dynamics.


----------



## musicfrommemory

musicfrommemory said:


> Thank you - one other quick question - I don't have an XLR cable for either of my HPs - assume the balanced quality is lost but will still function?



Chewing my way through the full thread and found this so ignore my question:

FYI guys, you can run the Liquid Platinum with any of the following:

1. Balanced input to balanced output 
2. Balanced input to SE output
3. SE input to SE output 
4. SE input to balanced output


----------



## Malcolm Riverside

musicfrommemory said:


> Thank you - one other quick question - I don't have an XLR cable for either of my HPs - assume the balanced quality is lost but will still function?


Get the balanced cable! Liquid Platinum is meant to be used balanced. If you only intend to use the se output on the amp then  get a different amp. 
+1 on the dac with volume control or pre-amp too. Otherwise, with those low impedance MrSpeakers cans you’ll be maxing out the LP’s volume knob at 9 o’clock.


----------



## Wes S

Malcolm Riverside said:


> Get the balanced cable! Liquid Platinum is meant to be used balanced. If you only intend to use the se output on the amp then  get a different amp.
> +1 on the dac with volume control or pre-amp too. Otherwise, with those low impedance MrSpeakers cans you’ll be maxing out the LP’s volume knob at 9 o’clock.


Good advice.


----------



## Wes S

musicfrommemory said:


> Chewing my way through the full thread and found this so ignore my question:
> 
> FYI guys, you can run the Liquid Platinum with any of the following:
> 
> ...


You can run it all 4 ways, but 1 and 4 are the only way to go, or I would get another amp.


----------



## PopZeus (Apr 12, 2019)

musicfrommemory said:


> Hi Everyone - just purchased one of these beauties on Monoprice with the restock they just made - got a newbie question - my source is Tidal via a MacBook Pro - the latest MacBook Pro with a USB-C USB port or the generic headphone line in - I don't own a DAC (last amp was a Lyr 3 with built in DAC) but can purchase one.
> 
> Two questions: what cable to go from the MacBook Pro to the amp (or DAC)?
> What DAC should I buy (trying to keep it around the $300 mark)?
> ...



If you want to run the LP directly from the MBP, you’ll need a 3.5mm to stereo RCA cable but that would not be advised considering the quality of the amp and headphones. You’ll want a dedicated line out signal to power the amp.

Unfortunately, with the MBPs, you’re likely going to need a USB-C to USB-blank cable of some sort to feed a digital signal to any DAC you might buy. Since most USB DACs are on an A or B or micro standard, what you need depends on your DAC’s needs. But the options are plentiful. If you need a DAC that does fixed and pre outs as well (and I’m not sure if that’s the case), I’d look at the affordable R2R-11 or NFB-11. They both have solid state amps built-in as well, but the line out is excellent even if it’s single-ended. Shouldn’t make a big difference to the LP.


----------



## JM1979

musicfrommemory said:


> Hi Everyone - just purchased one of these beauties on Monoprice with the restock they just made - got a newbie question - my source is Tidal via a MacBook Pro - the latest MacBook Pro with a USB-C USB port or the generic headphone line in - I don't own a DAC (last amp was a Lyr 3 with built in DAC) but can purchase one.
> 
> Two questions: what cable to go from the MacBook Pro to the amp (or DAC)?
> What DAC should I buy (trying to keep it around the $300 mark)?
> ...



You’ll want to hold off on the cable purchase until you select your dac and then make the choice that works best with your dac. 

I don’t mean to make you increase your budget but given your investment in headphones and amp, you might consider a more expensive  DAC. The thought behind that is getting the most from your source material so that the amp and headphones let it shine. 



musicfrommemory said:


> Thank you - one other quick question - I don't have an XLR cable for either of my HPs - assume the balanced quality is lost but will still function?



It will run fine off a 1/4” SE headphone cable. However, I’d start saving up for an XLR terminated cable. Forza Audio Works makes really nice cables that won’t be too crazy expense (relative to 3rd party cables). 

But listen to the SE first and make your decision before investing more.


----------



## Gauss1777

What do you guys think about this attenuator? Since I would use very efficient headphones and I have read that the volume control rockets to the sky, I plan on using 2 of these between my DX7s and the LP with XLR balanced cables:
https://www.amazon.com/Shure-A15AS-...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=18EYZ94F37E3MJ6Y5ESC


----------



## Rattle

Anyone using a SMSL SU-8 with LP?


----------



## kumar402

Rattle said:


> Anyone using a SMSL SU-8 with LP?


I have SMSL SU-8 V2 got it from Massdrop but I am using Chord Quest with LP. However I connected it with LP today running HD600/Empyrean. I would say it works well with LP. Best thing about this DAC is it has Balanced out so you can go full balanced with LP as well as you get remote for volume control which is a plus since LP doesn't have the gain so you can control volume with the DAC.


----------



## cobrabucket

I had the SU-8 with a LP. Good combo. And having adjustable volume on the dac is VERY useful!


----------



## musicfrommemory

JM1979 said:


> I don’t mean to make you increase your budget but given your investment in headphones and amp, you might consider a more expensive DAC. The thought behind that is getting the most from your source material so that the amp and headphones let it shine.



Currently leaning towards an RME ADI-2 DAC (~$1000) - anyone think this is unadvisable or anyone got any experience of this DAC with the LP?


----------



## cobrabucket

musicfrommemory said:


> Currently leaning towards an RME ADI-2 DAC (~$1000) - anyone think this is unadvisable or anyone got any experience of this DAC with the LP?


I recently got the ADI-2 Pro to pair with the LP and couldn't be happier.


----------



## Luckbad

ADI-2 DAC to Liquid Platinum is an exceedingly transparent setup.


----------



## lukeslens

musicfrommemory said:


> Currently leaning towards an RME ADI-2 DAC (~$1000) - anyone think this is unadvisable or anyone got any experience of this DAC with the LP?


This is currently my set-up and it is pretty phenomenal, I have to admit.


----------



## freesole

kumar402 said:


> I have SMSL SU-8 V2 got it from Massdrop but I am using Chord Quest with LP. However I connected it with LP today running HD600/Empyrean. I would say it works well with LP. Best thing about this DAC is it has Balanced out so you can go full balanced with LP as well as you get remote for volume control which is a plus since LP doesn't have the gain so you can control volume with the DAC.



I see that you have the Empyrean but based on your signature you don't run it through the LP, is there a reason you don't prefer that configuration?


----------



## kumar402 (Apr 16, 2019)

I am currently using Empyrean with Lyr 3. With LP it is gets loud very quickly. It is very dynamic headphone and with high gain of LP it is difficult to control it.
I have to use Qutest with 1v out and still use Sys to cut further to move volume knob of LP till 9.
I use DSP in Roon for my HD600 and 800s and I always choose LP over Lyr3 for them. The Vocals of these Cans are very good out of LP. I feel better then Lyr 3. Lower Mid has more weight in LP
However with Empyrean there is something magical with Lyr 3. The impact of Bass from Lyr 3 with those massive cups is too good to resist and Smooth treble in Empyrean out of Lyr 3 is a good combo for me. Please note I feel Lyr 3 is the smoothest sounding Schiit Amp. But LP wins over Lyr 3 when you use high impedance headphones.
I have joined the drop for THX AAA and I feel it will work well with Empyrean

Empyrean are great Cans and i can only imagine how good they would perform with V281 and Euforia.
If you have good Pre amp or DAC wth Volume control then LP will work well with Empyrean.


----------



## runeight

Hello folks. I'd like to address the possibility that some owners are thinking of using the 4 pin XLR output as a 3 pin TRS by tying two of the pins together as a common ground.
If you are thinking about doing this DO NOT DO IT. EVER.

The balanced outputs are two floating outputs with pos and neg phases. Connecting what looks like a 3-wire common ground will short two of the outputs together, one on each channel.

This will damage the amp and possibly void warranty.


----------



## kumar402

runeight said:


> Hello folks. I'd like to address the possibility that some owners are thinking of using the 4 pin XLR output as a 3 pin TRS by tying two of the pins together as a common ground.
> If you are thinking about doing this DO NOT DO IT. EVER.
> 
> The balanced outputs are two floating outputs with pos and neg phases. Connecting what looks like a 3-wire common ground will short two of the outputs together, one on each channel.
> ...


Thanks for the heads up. Sometime I use 6.3mm male to 4 pin XLR female adapter if the balanced output gets too hot for me and I want to use single ended output of the amp with headphone for which I only have wire termineted in 4 pin XLR. I hope there is nothing wrong in using 6.3mm to XLR adapter.


----------



## runeight

kumar402 said:


> Thanks for the heads up. Sometime I use 6.3mm male to 4 pin XLR female adapter if the balanced output gets too hot for me and I want to use single ended output of the amp with headphone for which I only have wire termineted in 4 pin XLR. I hope there is nothing wrong in using 6.3mm to XLR adapter.



It is ok to go the other direction, SE to Bal so long as it's wired right.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

An enjoyable night of music, featuring the ZMF Vérité + '75 Reflektors in the Liquid Platinum, hooked up to a Schiit Freya preamp running Tung Sol BGRP VT231 and Sylvania 5692 tubes, fed by an AudioGD Master-11 Singularity


----------



## Shane D

UsoppNoKami said:


> An enjoyable night of music, featuring the ZMF Vérité + '75 Reflektors in the Liquid Platinum, hooked up to a Schiit Freya preamp running Tung Sol BGRP VT231 and Sylvania 5692 tubes, fed by an AudioGD Master-11 Singularity



Beautiful pics!

Shane D


----------



## Mofomamy

I got my Liquid Platinum today, but it is DOA! The power brick has a green led that won't light up so I don't think it is the amp, just (hopefully) the power supply. Monoprice will only RMA the entire package and will not send another power brick. I'd rather not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Can anyone recommend a replacement? ...from a site with decently fast shipping


----------



## LCMusicLover

Mofomamy said:


> I got my Liquid Platinum today, but it is DOA! The power brick has a green led that won't light up so I don't think it is the amp, just (hopefully) the power supply. Monoprice will only RMA the entire package and will not send another power brick. I'd rather not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Can anyone recommend a replacement? ...from a site with decently fast shipping


You don't want to do that.  If you look back through this thread, you'll see a lot of discussion regarding swapping in an LPS.  @runeight was very clear that the power brick which ships with LP is an integral part of the system and shouldn't be replaced.  Apparently it has an important role in the protection process the amp does during power up.


----------



## Mofomamy

Your point is well taken as I combed through that discussion before posting. I was hoping to use a switching power supply with the same voltage and amperage characteristics. It looks like I'll be RMA'ing the whole thing. Thanks!


----------



## runeight

Mofomamy said:


> Your point is well taken as I combed through that discussion before posting. I was hoping to use a switching power supply with the same voltage and amperage characteristics. It looks like I'll be RMA'ing the whole thing. Thanks!



This is a real PITA, I know. I am surprised though bc I know how these things are tested. A dead brick should never get through the process. It's just too difficult.

Hmmmmmm


----------



## Luckbad

Nope. Basically have to use that power brick.

Edit: Missed an entire page.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Make sure the A/C cable is plugged into the brick all the way. Mine had a very tight fit and had to push hard to get it plugged in all the way


----------



## Mofomamy

4LoveOfSound said:


> Make sure the A/C cable is plugged into the brick all the way. Mine had a very tight fit and had to push hard to get it plugged in all the way


Thanks for the suggestion. I've re-seated the cord in the brick and the cord in the back of the amp multiple times. No red LED let alone a white one. Maybe I should plug the other end into the wall. Kidding, only kidding. I've plugged it into two different plugs.

I still think I beat the odds on the QA. I'm dying to hear this amp.


----------



## Rattle

I asked around for a suitable quality replacement for the "brick" on the spark also. Be nice to have a backup. Some of them squeal like little piggies too.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Mofomamy said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. I've re-seated the cord in the brick and the cord in the back of the amp multiple times. No red LED let alone a white one. Maybe I should plug the other end into the wall. Kidding, only kidding. I've plugged it into two different plugs.
> 
> I still think I beat the odds on the QA. I'm dying to hear this amp.


Where are you? Maybe someone near you can help.


----------



## llcook51

Shane D said:


> Beautiful pics!
> 
> Shane D


Shane D, your orange cat looks like my orange cat.


----------



## Shane D

llcook51 said:


> Shane D, your orange cat looks like my orange cat.


Except for the big white chest. Mine is old and fat, but I still love her.

Shane D


----------



## Wes S

I just scored a Gungnir Multibit!  Now it is time to hear what the LP, can really do.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Wes S said:


> I just scored a Gungnir Multibit!  Now it is time to hear what the LP, can really do.



like a pile of schii....

haha enjoy!


----------



## Rattle

Rattle said:


> I asked around for a suitable quality replacement for the "brick" on the spark also. Be nice to have a backup. Some of them squeal like little piggies too.



Has anyone found a replacement yet ? Is like a backup


----------



## nwavesailor (Apr 28, 2019)

Considering a LP for Ether 2's. Currently have a Burson Play w/ Vivid and Sparko's opamps.

I already have 6DJ8, 6922 and 7308 as well as 6H30's in my tube stash. As Dr. Cavelli said  (not an exact quote)......... 'I know some will try other tubes'

Anyone ventures outside the 'normal' suggested tubes in their LP?


----------



## nwavesailor

I have read a few positive posts pairing the LP with Ether 2's. 
Anyone else want to chime in on this combo?


----------



## Phantaminum

nwavesailor said:


> I have read a few positive posts pairing the LP with Ether 2's.
> Anyone else want to chime in on this combo?



There are several people who enjoy the the pairing of the LP with the Ether 2. I’ll be the voice of dissension and say I’m not one of them. The amp pairs well with the Verum 1, HEX V2, and Ananda but find that the Ether 2 are almost as slow as the HD650s on it. Seems like it needs a fast solid state or fast tube hybrid to really bring the most out of it.


----------



## LCMusicLover

nwavesailor said:


> Considering a LP for Ether 2's. Currently have a Burson Play w/ Vivid and Sparko's opamps.
> 
> I already have 6DJ8, 6922 and 7308 as well as 6H30's in my tube stash. As Dr. Cavelli said  (not an exact quote)......... 'I know some will try other tubes'
> 
> Anyone ventures outside the 'normal' suggested tubes in their LP?


I really enjoy LP/E2 w/ Siemens NOS (E88CC & CCa). The pairing produces a great, very 3D headstage with excellent bass.


----------



## nwavesailor (May 5, 2019)

LCMusicLover said:


> I really enjoy LP/E2 w/ Siemens NOS (E88CC & CCa). The pairing produces a great, very 3D headstage with excellent bass.



I have mostly Amperex 6DJ8 / 6922 / 7308.  I liked the Amperex house sound with other gear I have used. My only experience with Siemens family may have been steel pin 6DJ8  that were a fairly forward,leaning towards bright, presentation. Using 6922 / E88CC Seimens in the LP this may not be the case. I am leaning towards the LP as I get used to the quite neutral sound of the E2's. Great recording sound...........well........GREAT. Not so great recordings are a bit tough to listen to with the E2's . I have only about 3-4 hours on the E2's so I need to give them a _lot_ more time before really having a true opinion of these hp.


----------



## Wheel Hoss

Phantaminum said:


> There are several people who enjoy the the pairing of the LP with the Ether 2. I’ll be the voice of dissension and say I’m not one of them. The amp pairs well with the Verum 1, HEX V2, and Ananda but find that the Ether 2 are almost as slow as the HD650s on it. Seems like it needs a fast solid state or fast tube hybrid to really bring the most out of it.



You don’t like the 650 on the LP? Interesting!

Thought that amp had no flaws. Or sometimes it’s talked about like that.

So what is a* fast tube hybrid* good for the 650 (or my Atticus)?


----------



## Wes S (May 5, 2019)

Wheel Hoss said:


> You don’t like the 650 on the LP? Interesting!
> 
> Thought that amp had no flaws. Or sometimes it’s talked about like that.
> 
> So what is a* fast tube hybrid* good for the 650 (or my Atticus)?


I thought the LP, was a fast hybrid?  Tube rolling and Dac pairing, can change things.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Wheel Hoss said:


> You don’t like the 650 on the LP? ...


Difference of opinion here. I really like LP/HD6xx pairing. First time I’ve thought HD-6xx deserved the hype.


> ...So what is a* fast tube hybrid* good for the 650 (or my Atticus)?


MJ2 I guess?


----------



## Phantaminum (May 5, 2019)

Wheel Hoss said:


> You don’t like the 650 on the LP? Interesting!
> 
> Thought that amp had no flaws. Or sometimes it’s talked about like that.
> 
> So what is a* fast tube hybrid* good for the 650 (or my Atticus)?



I never mentioned that I didn’t enjoy the HD650 from the LP, I mentioned that the Ether feels as slow as the HD650 on the LP. For example - the Ananda, HEK V2, and Verum One feel fast out of the LP, the Ether 2 feels sluggish in comparison.  I’ve also tried most of the top holy grail tubes: Siemens CCa, PW Amperex, Telefunken e188cc, even my quickest Russian tubes but I have the suspicion that it would pair better with the Gilmore Lite MK 2. The AFOs felt the same way out of the LP but were fast and light footed out of MK2.

Really that’s my only complaint but one that makes me want to crack the whip on it.


----------



## Wes S

Phantaminum said:


> I never mentioned that I didn’t enjoy the HD650 from the LP, I mentioned that the Ether feels as slow as the HD650 on the LP. For example - the Ananda, HEK V2, and Verum One feel fast out of the LP, the Ether 2 feels sluggish in comparison.  I’ve also tried most of the top holy grail tubes: Siemens CCa, PW Amperex, Telefunken e188cc, even my quickest Russian tubes but I have the suspicion that it would pair better with the Gilmore Lite MK 2. The AFOs felt the same way out of the LP but were fast and light footed out of MK2.
> 
> Really that’s my only complaint but one that makes me want to crack the whip on it.


I hear nothing but good things about that Gilmore.  Dang, those sure are some holy grail tubes! I am jealous!


----------



## Phantaminum

Wes S said:


> I hear nothing but good things about that Gilmore.  Dang, those sure are some holy grail tubes! I am jealous!



The Gilmore Lite MK2 is a bit of a strange beast. I didn’t like the HD650 paired with it because it felt too warm and slow. Paired the the AFO and it had much better synergy with it. The tone, timbre, and speed was fantastic. It’s a great amp for the price. So is the LP. 



LCMusicLover said:


> Difference of opinion here. I really like LP/HD6xx pairing. First time I’ve thought HD-6xx deserved the hype.
> 
> MJ2 I guess?



Of course. My ears and gear may just make things sound much different and I respect your opinion on it. I enjoy the HD650 out of it but the planars much more.


----------



## JamesCanada

Hello!
I broke a tube yesterday by dropping one of my kids toys on the left tube... 
Does anyone know where I can replace them? 
Is this a good time to swap tubes? If so, any quick recommendations for a no-fuss type guy that just wants a nice mid-tier tube for a relaxing audio session!?

Thanks

James


----------



## llcook51

nwavesailor said:


> I have read a few positive posts pairing the LP with Ether 2's.
> Anyone else want to chime in on this combo?


I like the pairing. To my ears, both the highs and lows are well-extended. I have seen some complaints that the bass is too soft with this pairing. That is not my impression, but ears differ.


----------



## Schwibbles

nwavesailor said:


> I have read a few positive posts pairing the LP with Ether 2's.
> Anyone else want to chime in on this combo?



I owned the Ether 2 and LP at the same time for a little while. I first heard the pairing at CanJam RMAF and thought it sounded really nice.

At home, my opinion changed a little. I thought the Ether 2 sounded a bit boring out of the LP. The LP brought a little warmth to the lower midrange  but, at the same time, the upper midrange seemed to be held back a little. It didn't sound bad, just more laid back than I prefer. Treble was extended well enough but also held back just a little bit; it was completely inoffensive. Bass had good extension and was very flat all the way down but sounded a little weak in terms of impact. Sub bass impact was lacking as well. 

For my own preferences, I think I'd prefer to hear the Ether 2 out of a more neutral, solid state amp. For example, out of the headphone out of my Soekris 1541, bass extension and impact was a little improved. The HeadAmp GSX Mini or Gilmore Lite mk2 immediately come to mind as amps I'd love to try with the Ether 2.


----------



## gtb75 (May 7, 2019)

I like the Ether 2 on my Liquid Platinum. I am relatively new to the tube rolling game, but of the tubes I own I prefer the Sylvania 6922 D-getters with them the most. I find the Amperex 6922 PQ and Siemens 6922 E188CC I own a bit too "polite" for the Ether 2. As for the GS-X Mini and the Ether 2, I had a few minutes with that combo at Axpona a couple of weeks ago and wasn't totally blown away by the pairing. Obviously a big show like Axpona is a less than ideal environment for auditioning an open back headphone, but I didn't come away being as impressed as I hoped I would be. The GS-X Mini is still on my short list of amps and I want to hear the production version, but I am really happy with the LP for now.


----------



## CreditingKarma (May 11, 2019)

I just got my LP and there is a channel imbalance until almost 10 o'clock and then a small imbalance continues all the way through the volume pot. I just requested a replacement from amazon. Hopefully the next on is better. This am sounds great so far. Most of my cans are relatively easy to drive so I can't deal with the volume imbalance at 10 o'clock.


----------



## LCMusicLover

CreditingKarma said:


> I just got my LP and there is a channel imbalance until almost 10 o'clock and then a small imbalance continues all the way through the volume pot. I just requested a replacement from amazon. Hopefully the next on is better. This am sounds great so far. Most of my cans are relatively easy to drive so I can't deal with the volume imbalance at 10 o'clock.


 Yes, there of been a few reports of that problem. For me the imbalance is pretty minor, only up until about 8 o’clock.

 It’s unfortunate that the switchable gain feature didn’t make it into the final product. A lot of LP owners have gone to some sort of attenuation. I use a passive preamp.

 But channel imbalance to 10 o’clock is unacceptable. As you said, hopefully the replacement amp won’t have that problem.


----------



## CreditingKarma

LCMusicLover said:


> Yes, there of been a few reports of that problem. For me the imbalance is pretty minor, only up until about 8 o’clock.
> 
> It’s unfortunate that the switchable gain feature didn’t make it into the final product. A lot of LP owners have gone to some sort of attenuation. I use a passive preamp.
> 
> But channel imbalance to 10 o’clock is unacceptable. As you said, hopefully the replacement amp won’t have that problem.



It is strange to me there is not an imbalance really until that point and then there is a large jump in volume output and an imbalance until about 11 o'clock. The replacement will be here tomorrow. I am happy that I bought this through amazon though much easier to get it replaced. If I have the same issue I might need to just try and go with the pro Ican. I have heard many people that prefer the CLP over the ican though. I don't get my Onyx until monday and I will be out of town for the week. I can't wait to see how they do together.


----------



## LCMusicLover

CreditingKarma said:


> It is strange to me there is not an imbalance really until that point and then there is a large jump in volume output and an imbalance until about 11 o'clock. The replacement will be here tomorrow. I am happy that I bought this through amazon though much easier to get it replaced. If I have the same issue I might need to just try and go with the pro Ican. I have heard many people that prefer the CLP over the ican though. I don't get my Onyx until monday and I will be out of town for the week. I can't wait to see how they do together.


Interesting. @runeight expressed dismay regarding what seem to be QA problems with the volume pots when this issue first came up:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...-by-alex-cavalli.876406/page-80#post-14706735

I look forward to hearing your impressions of Onyx/LP.


----------



## sbninja (May 12, 2019)

I'm thinking of changing my jotenheim to an mj2.

I am intrigued about the monoprice liquid platinum. Though, I'm kinda bummed to there are no balanced pre outs to feed my presonus Eris e5's


----------



## Luckbad

Almost every amp has channel imbalance when low on the dial. It's not an amp flaw so much as a reality of potentiometers.

If you hear imbalance higher on the dial, turn your headphones backwards. Same imbalance?

I was super annoyed at an amp a few years ago until I tried that and discovered I hear about 1.5dB worse out of my left ear.


----------



## musicfrommemory

Hi Everyone

Can I roll these tubes in the LP without a converter, i.e., just plug them in?

Valvo Philips ECC88 6DJ8

If I need a converter which type do I need?

Also anyone with experience of them?

Thanks

MFM


----------



## LCMusicLover

musicfrommemory said:


> Hi Everyone
> 
> Can I roll these tubes in the LP without a converter, i.e., just plug them in?
> 
> Valvo Philips ECC88 6DJ8...


Yes,  just plug them in.


> If I need a converter which type do I need?...


None needed.


> Also anyone with experience of them?


Sorry, I haven't tried those.


----------



## musicfrommemory

LCMusicLover said:


> Yes,  just plug them in.
> 
> None needed.
> 
> Sorry, I haven't tried those.



Thanks LC - just to be clear these are the ECC88 - not E88CCs....


----------



## LCMusicLover

musicfrommemory said:


> Thanks LC - just to be clear these are the ECC88 - not E88CCs....


They are direct substitutes for each other -- @runeight  calls them 'exact equivalents'.

You might want to look at posts around this one:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...by-alex-cavalli.876406/page-131#post-14857275

where there was a lot of discussion about what tubes can be used.


----------



## musicfrommemory

LCMusicLover said:


> They are direct substitutes for each other -- @runeight  calls them 'exact equivalents'.
> 
> You might want to look at posts around this one:
> 
> ...



Thanks - feel foolish as I remember reading those!


----------



## kumar402

musicfrommemory said:


> Hi Everyone
> 
> Can I roll these tubes in the LP without a converter, i.e., just plug them in?
> 
> ...


I'm not sure how different is Valvo philips from Valvo Amperex but I'm using Valvo Amperex E88CC 1960. It sounds good. Has nice extension to lower as well as higher frequency.


----------



## kumar402

Luckbad said:


> Almost every amp has channel imbalance when low on the dial. It's not an amp flaw so much as a reality of potentiometers.
> 
> If you hear imbalance higher on the dial, turn your headphones backwards. Same imbalance?
> 
> I was super annoyed at an amp a few years ago until I tried that and discovered I hear about 1.5dB worse out of my left ear.


Ya that's true...because of high gain the imbalance at low volume level is more apparent in LP then in some other amp.
Apart from hearing even L/R cups of headphones have different decibel level across frequency range. So we need to test across headphones and by changing left and right cable to pin point on amplifier.


----------



## fortunate son (Mar 23, 2022)

nwavesailor said:


> I have read a few positive posts pairing the LP with Ether 2's.
> Anyone else want to chime in on this combo?


Withdrawn due to parting ways with LP and Sendy for something I like much better.


----------



## fortunate son (Mar 23, 2022)

fortunate son said:


> I'd be interested in impressions from other members on the Ether 2/LP combo as well.
> Currently, I am trying out the SendyAudio Aiva planars which sound wonderful with the LP in balanced mode fitted with PCC189 tubes. If anyone has compared  the sound of both the Sendy Aiva and the Ether 2's when used in balanced mode with the LP it would be great to know your impressions and what tubes you were using.


Update: Sent the Aiva headphones back for a refund. They have good articulation which makes it possible to understand lyrics in pop music and to reproduce convincingly instrument timbres in string chamber music better than on other headphones i have tried, but in single ended mode with the Woo WA6 they distorted and fell apart in the octaves above middle C on many recordings of solo classical piano music which I listen to more than anything else. Maybe it was just an issue of amp/headphone incompatibility? I have also parted ways with the LP. The sound of the LP is not great enough to make it possible for me to live with its overly aggressive volume control. Try a revised Topping L30 and you may like it as much or even more than the LP. I certainly do.


----------



## Wes S

Anyone curious if the ZMF Aeolus pair well with the LP?  Well, I can confirm, that it is a match made in heaven! 

Tidal HiFi + Gungnir Multibit + Liquid Platinum (Brimar CV2492 tubes) + ZMF Aeolus = END GAME (For Me )


----------



## LCMusicLover

Wes S said:


> Anyone curious if the ZMF Aeolus pair well with the LP?  Well, I can confirm, that it is a match made in heaven!
> 
> Tidal HiFi + Gungnir Multibit + Liquid Platinum (Brimar CV2492 tubes) + ZMF Aeolus = END GAME (For Me )


Am I seeing a new avatar?

BTW, this makes me want to swap my Brimars back in to test with my Empyrean as that's one pairing I hadn't tried.


----------



## freesole

LCMusicLover said:


> Am I seeing a new avatar?
> 
> BTW, this makes me want to swap my Brimars back in to test with my Empyrean as that's one pairing I hadn't tried.



Would be curious to hear your thoughts on this. I was thinking about the LP for my incoming Empyrean's but then got distracted with the Feliks gear.


----------



## Wes S

LCMusicLover said:


> Am I seeing a new avatar?
> 
> BTW, this makes me want to swap my Brimars back in to test with my Empyrean as that's one pairing I hadn't tried.


Yes sir!  Those are my new babies (ZMF Aeolus), in my avatar.  I am actually curious, how the Empyrean would do with the LP, and the high gain.  I was a bit shocked how easy the Aeolus, are to drive, as in not much play with volume control, but still amazing pairing.


----------



## LCMusicLover

freesole said:


> Would be curious to hear your thoughts on this. I was thinking about the LP for my incoming Empyrean's but then got distracted with the Feliks gear.


Up to this point I've preferred my Empyrean driven by my Bryston BHA-1 SS amp. I find the Empy/LP combo with my (preferred) Siemens tubes a bit over-lush. Elsewhere I've said that it seems I prefer my sound _damp_ not _wet_.

I'll swap in the Brimars this weekend.  I'd been meaning to try it and that post kicked me gently in the posterior.  I felt the Brimars were a bit leaner with my Utopia (and Auteur), and thus not preferred, since I was trying for 'more musical/less analytical' there.

I have actually been meaning to roll through all my tubes again with Empy.  Wondering if they're the cans which will let me appreciate the stock EH tubes which I haven't swapped in since the first day I got the amp.


----------



## Wes S (May 16, 2019)

LCMusicLover said:


> Up to this point I've preferred my Empyrean driven by my Bryston BHA-1 SS amp. I find the Empy/LP combo with my (preferred) Siemens tubes a bit over-lush. Elsewhere I've said that it seems I prefer my sound _damp_ not _wet_.
> 
> I'll swap in the Brimars this weekend.  I'd been meaning to try it and that post kicked me gently in the posterior.  I felt the Brimars were a bit leaner with my Utopia (and Auteur), and thus not preferred, since I was trying for 'more musical/less analytical' there.
> 
> I have actually been meaning to roll through all my tubes again with Empy.  Wondering if they're the cans which will let me appreciate the stock EH tubes which I haven't swapped in since the first day I got the amp.


Interesting stuff, with the Siemens.  The Brimar hit so hard and deep, I could not imagine the lower end being stronger, and I am a basshead.  I have never heard of Siemens being lush, although I have not rolled any, in the LP.  I do know, that some tubes, just jive better, with different amps, and now I want to try some Siemens.  I have some 70's A frames, but those have never been my favorite, and I know the earlier grey shields, are better.


----------



## Wes S

@LCMusicLover - do your Brimar, look like these?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-CCa-E88C...=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


----------



## LCMusicLover

Wes S said:


> Interesting stuff, with the Siemens.  The Brimar hit so hard and deep, I could not imagine the lower end being stronger, and I am a basshead.  I have never heard of Siemens being lush, although I have not rolled any, in the LP.  I do know, that some tubes, just jive better, with different amps, and now I want to try some Siemens.  I have some 70's A frames, but those have never been my favorite, and I know the earlier grey shields, are better.


I don't know, maybe 'lush' isn't the right word.  I just know that Empy/LP/Siemens (E88CC & CCa) sounds a little ..._something_... compared to the Empy/Bryston chain. I don't want to say 'bloated', as it's not that drastic.  But it's leaning that direction.  I hear a bit of mid-bass/lower mid rise from Empy, and the LP/Siemens amp combo seems to accentuate that in a way I don't prefer.

I'll be able to say more once I roll some other tubes in.  The problem has been that the Siemens CCa tubes have been so great with all my other cans that it has been hard to find the motivation to swap. First World problems


----------



## LCMusicLover

Wes S said:


> @LCMusicLover - do your Brimar, look like these?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-CCa-E88CC-6922-CV2492-Ediswan-Brimar-tube-valve-1968-/233217815254?hash=item364cdd72d6:g:XvoAAOSwnalc2ZLS&nma=true&si=A%2Bvs7LBborHlhkH4zRT49ITgvHI%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


Can't say -- I'll look at home this evening.


----------



## Zachik

Wes S said:


> not much play with volume control


That is probably my ONLY small negative, when it comes to the LP.
Soon, I am going to introduce a good quality passive pre-amp between my source and the LP, to resolve this issue once and for all


----------



## Wes S (May 16, 2019)

Zachik said:


> That is probably my ONLY small negative, when it comes to the LP.
> Soon, I am going to introduce a good quality passive pre-amp between my source and the LP, to resolve this issue once and for all


Me too.  The amp is that good, and worth the investment.  

Something like this - http://www.goldpt.com/sa1x.html


----------



## Wes S

LCMusicLover said:


> Can't say -- I'll look at home this evening.


Cool.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Zachik said:


> That is probably my ONLY small negative, when it comes to the LP.
> Soon, I am going to introduce a good quality passive pre-amp between my source and the LP, to resolve this issue once and for all


Yep, that's why I got my Hattor.  

I had (actually still have, need to sell) an Emotiva active preamp, but I decided it was a bit colored compared to direct connections (DAC ==> amp). It also has a bunch of features I don't use or need since it's really designed to be the control for a home theater system. 

The bad news was that when I piled up my requirements (dual balanced input, dual balanced out, remote control) I was forced into a pretty pricey space (Hattor/Khozmo, Luminous Axiom, Goldpoint, Tortuga).  Ended up spending about $850 for the Hattor Mini. But it's quite solid, and I'm happy with the SQ.


----------



## Wes S

LCMusicLover said:


> Yep, that's why I got my Hattor.
> 
> I had (actually still have, need to sell) an Emotiva active preamp, but I decided it was a bit colored compared to direct connections (DAC ==> amp). It also has a bunch of features I don't use or need since it's really designed to be the control for a home theater system.
> 
> The bad news was that when I piled up my requirements (dual balanced input, dual balanced out, remote control) I was forced into a pretty pricey space (Hattor/Khozmo, Luminous Axiom, Goldpoint, Tortuga).  Ended up spending about $850 for the Hattor Mini. But it's quite solid, and I'm happy with the SQ.


Nice!  I am going to look at the Hattor, as well.  Thanks for the info!


----------



## kumar402

Zachik said:


> That is probably my ONLY small negative, when it comes to the LP.
> Soon, I am going to introduce a good quality passive pre-amp between my source and the LP, to resolve this issue once and for all


Because of high gain I prefer using Qutest over Gumby..Qutest has 1v out and it gives me enough to play around with volume knob.


----------



## Wes S

kumar402 said:


> Because of high gain I prefer using Qutest over Gumby..Qutest has 1v out and it gives me enough to play around with volume knob.


That's cool and I bet it sounds awesome.  I want to stick with balanced in balanced out, because Alex Cavalli recommends it.


----------



## kumar402

Wes S said:


> That's cool and I bet it sounds awesome.  I want to stick with balanced in balanced out, because Alex Cavalli recommends it.


Ya I connected balanced out from Gumby but due to high gain I couldn't use it with Empyrean. With HD600 got some playroom. But ya good balanced preamp will solve the issue.


----------



## Zachik

kumar402 said:


> Because of high gain I prefer using Qutest over Gumby..Qutest has 1v out and it gives me enough to play around with volume knob.


I do not use a Schiit DAC (or a Chord one for that matter), and besides I would not replace a DAC that I am happy with, just because of 2v standard output voltage.  I chose to add a simple passive pre-amp.


----------



## LCMusicLover

LCMusicLover said:


> Can't say -- I'll look at home this evening.


Different.  Like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-x-CV2492-6922-BRIMAR-NOS-TUBES-PRICE-1-PC-CRYOTREATED-RC139H/382912713188


----------



## kumar402

LCMusicLover said:


> Different.  Like this:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-x-CV2492-6922-BRIMAR-NOS-TUBES-PRICE-1-PC-CRYOTREATED-RC139H/382912713188


Any reliable seller for Brimar. Heard a lot about this tube and want to try it out. Do let us know about the synergy with Empyrean.


----------



## Wes S (May 17, 2019)

LCMusicLover said:


> Different.  Like this:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-x-CV2492-6922-BRIMAR-NOS-TUBES-PRICE-1-PC-CRYOTREATED-RC139H/382912713188


See post below.


----------



## Wes S (May 17, 2019)

Wes S said:


> I can't open link, but if they are diff, that could account for the thin sound and light bass.  I think you might have gotten a latter production, that don't sound even half as good.


Edit - I did open the link and those are actually Mullard ECC88 if the pins are not gold, and E88CC if they are.  I can't tell from the pic, about the pins.  I do see a silver shield, which is a latter production.   I see this all the time, and it sad that seller's don't know what they have, and pass them off as something good.


----------



## Wes S (May 17, 2019)

kumar402 said:


> Any reliable seller for Brimar. Heard a lot about this tube and want to try it out. Do let us know about the synergy with Empyrean.


Those are not Brimar, and these below are, from a reliable seller, that list them all the time, and must have a huge stash.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-CCa-E88CC-6922-CV2492-Ediswan-Brimar-tube-valve-1963/233145857494?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Unfortunately I just looked everywhere, and could not find a single "real" Brimar E88CC/CV2492, anywhere at the moment.  I will keep an eye out, and post here if I see any.


----------



## Wes S

Found one, and this is what a Brimar looks like.  Look at the getter ring, and how low it sits, almost on top of the splatter shield, and the ring is big.  The Mullard has a taller getter ring post, and the ring is smaller.  Hope that helps, the search, and these tubes are worth the hunt. . .
https://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-BRIMAR-made-in-England-Amplitrex-tested-1535002/202236767684


----------



## Wes S (May 17, 2019)

Found some more real and good Brimar -

https://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-VINTAGE-BRIMAR-NOS-RING-GETTER-VALVE-TUBE/272134721456

I have not bought from this seller, but they have a bunch of amazing tubes in their inventory, and I plan to buy some 12au7, from them soon.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Wes S said:


> Found one, and this is what a Brimar looks like.  Look at the getter ring, and how low it sits, almost on top of the splatter shield, and the ring is big.  The Mullard has a taller getter ring post, and the ring is smaller.  Hope that helps, the search, and these tubes are worth the hunt. . .
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-BRIMAR-made-in-England-Amplitrex-tested-1535002/202236767684


Thanks.  I'll have to go home and look at the tubes I have more closely, but you're probably right.  I note that the item you linked says E88CC, not CV2492.  Same difference?


----------



## Wes S (May 17, 2019)

LCMusicLover said:


> Thanks.  I'll have to go home and look at the tubes I have more closely, but you're probably right.  I note that the item you linked says E88CC, not CV2492.  Same difference?


Yes.  They are the same, CV2492, is gov.  E88CC is civilian.  They have the same construction.  The low sitting getter ring and short getter post with big getter ring, is a key identifier for Brimar.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Wes S said:


> Yes.  They are the same, CV2492, is gov.  E88CC is civilian.  They have the same construction.  The low sitting getter ring and short getter post with big getter ring, is a key identifier for Brimar.


How about this tube (says more than 10 available):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-CV2492-BRIMAR-MULLARD-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-LC17-/262158412197

Picture doesn't really give view of the getter.


----------



## Wes S (May 17, 2019)

LCMusicLover said:


> How about this tube (says more than 10 available):
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-CV2492-BRIMAR-MULLARD-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-LC17-/262158412197
> 
> Picture doesn't really give view of the getter.


That is not the right one.  It has a silver shield, and is a latter production Mullard.


----------



## Wes S (May 17, 2019)

Anyone looking for some Brimar, keep an eye out for this seller, as they list a pair for sale every couple of weeks, and I have bought several from them.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-CCa-E88CC-6922-CV2492-Ediswan-Brimar-tube-valve-1967-/233204916042?hash=item364c189f4a:glIAAOSwGotbUhxt&nma=true&si=A%2Bvs7LBborHlhkH4zRT49ITgvHI%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


----------



## fortunate son (Oct 10, 2019)

LCMusicLover said:


> Yes, there of been a few reports of that problem. For me the imbalance is pretty minor, only up until about 8 o’clock.
> 
> It’s unfortunate that the switchable gain feature didn’t make it into the final product. A lot of LP owners have gone to some sort of attenuation. I use a passive preamp.
> 
> But channel imbalance to 10 o’clock is unacceptable. As you said, hopefully the replacement amp won’t have that problem.



The Goldpoint level control that I purchased a couple of months ago made the channel imbalance and "too much gain, too soon" issues go away but I did not A-B the overall sound produced by the amp with and without the Goldpoint until today. I have shelved all of my low ohm, high sensitivity headphones so the volume control on the LP is no longer an issue. Today, I removed the Goldpoint to see how much it had been affecting the overall sound. There was a bigger difference than I expected. The improvement in clarity, texture, vigor and articulation with the Goldpoint removed is very noticeable. On the plus side, the Goldpoint seems to make the sound of the LP a bit more euphonic. For that reason, I will probably continue to use the Goldpoint from time to time when I want a different overall sound. The tubes I use most of the time are PCC189 .


----------



## kumar402

fortunate son said:


> The Goldpoint passive preamp that I purchased a couple of months ago made the channel imbalance and "too much gain, too soon" issues go away but I did not A-B the overall sound produced by the amp with and without the Goldpoint until today. I have shelved all of my low ohm, high sensitivity headphones so the volume control on the LP is no longer an issue. Today, I removed the Goldpoint to see how much it had been affecting the overall sound. There was a bigger difference than I expected. The improvement in clarity, texture, vigor and articulation with the Goldpoint removed is very noticeable. On the plus side, the Goldpoint seems to make the sound of the LP a bit more euphonic. For that reason, I will probably continue to use the Goldpoint from time to time when I want a different overall sound. The tubes I use most of the time are PCC189 .


Is it like taking a very thin veil off? May be the preamp is taking the  leading edge off? and making it sound more euphoric. What headphone are you using...I feel with HD800s you may like it but with darker headphone you may not like it.


----------



## fortunate son (Mar 20, 2020)

kumar402 said:


> Is it like taking a very thin veil off? May be the preamp is taking the  leading edge off? and making it sound more euphoric. What headphone are you using...I feel with HD800s you may like it but with darker headphone you may not like it.


Withdrawn. Now a Decware fanboy. Platinum sold to a lucky HF member.


----------



## kumar402

Ya I suspected you are using HD800
Right now I'm comparing Qutest with Gumby and I know what you are saying


----------



## LCMusicLover

fortunate son said:


> The Goldpoint passive preamp that I purchased a couple of months ago made the channel imbalance and "too much gain, too soon" issues go away but I did not A-B the overall sound produced by the amp with and without the Goldpoint until today. I have shelved all of my low ohm, high sensitivity headphones so the volume control on the LP is no longer an issue. Today, I removed the Goldpoint to see how much it had been affecting the overall sound. There was a bigger difference than I expected. The improvement in clarity, texture, vigor and articulation with the Goldpoint removed is very noticeable. On the plus side, the Goldpoint seems to make the sound of the LP a bit more euphonic. For that reason, I will probably continue to use the Goldpoint from time to time when I want a different overall sound. The tubes I use most of the time are PCC189 .


This makes me so glad I went with my Hattor pre. Within the limits of the _turn amp down~remove cables from amp~move cables from preamp to amp~reset volume_ cycle I don’t hear a noticeable difference from the chain w? Preamp vs without.


----------



## fortunate son (Mar 20, 2020)

LCMusicLover said:


> This makes me so glad I went with my Hattor pre. Within the limits of the _turn amp down~remove cables from amp~move cables from preamp to amp~reset volume_ cycle I don’t hear a noticeable difference from the chain w? Preamp vs without.



Withdrawn. Now a Decware fanboy. Platinum was sold to a lucky HF member.


----------



## Wes S (May 19, 2019)

fortunate son said:


> Good to know.
> I should clarify that my Goldpoint is the model SA4 single ended rca to rca version which I chose because I do not have a dac with balanced outputs. I use the SA4 with a 12 inch Mogami W2549 patch cable. Goldpoint also makes a balanced xlr to xlr passive preamp (model SA2X) which I have been told is more transparent than the SA4. The SA2X is supposed to be sonically "invisible" with a short length of Belden 8900F cable. The 8900F cable is actually a digital AES/EBU cable but it is chosen for its very low capacitance, clarity and wide bandwidth.


Good to know, as the Balanced connections are all that are getting used on my LP.  I believe member Atomicbob, uses a Goldpoint Sax2 (balanced) as a reference, and the measurements sure do look good?


----------



## fortunate son

Wes S said:


> Good to know, as the Balanced connections are all that are getting used on my LP.  I believe member Atomicbob, uses a Goldpoint Sax2 (balanced) as a reference, and the measurements sure do look good?



Atomicbob is terrific.


----------



## kumar402

read one of the comment in other forum where one guy claimed that the new LP that he has got has power supply from different supplier, this claim seems to be ok but then he claimed that the tube cutout seems to be bigger and with better tube socket. However his biggest claim is the gain is lower compared to previous production model. Is this true? any new owner can chime in who has experience with older version.
As per his comment wth HE-500 he can go till 11 on volume dial compared to previous batch where he was more at 8:30-9


----------



## kumar402 (May 19, 2019)

I don't see push clip on top of balanced input of my LP
Also I noticed warranty reduced from 5 years to 1 year, is this the case or am I confused with Schiit warranty.


----------



## LCMusicLover

kumar402 said:


> read one of the comment in other forum where one guy claimed that the new LP that he has got has power supply from different supplier, this claim seems to be ok but then he claimed that the tube cutout seems to be bigger and with better tube socket. However his biggest claim is the gain is lower compared to previous production model. Is this true? any new owner can chime in who has experience with older version.
> As per his comment wth HE-500 he can go till 11 on volume dial compared to previous batch where he was more at 8:30-9


Saw that. Pretty dramatic diffs. I suspect @runeight will comment eventually.

It’s like they did a new batch based on a modified design.


----------



## CreditingKarma

LCMusicLover said:


> Saw that. Pretty dramatic diffs. I suspect @runeight will comment eventually.
> 
> It’s like they did a new batch based on a modified design.


I also do not see the clips on mine either.


----------



## LCMusicLover

CreditingKarma said:


> I also do not see the clips on mine either.


No clips on mine either. I purchased in November off eBay.


----------



## Rattle

No clips on mine. Bought November off eBay I wonder if they are gonna stiff everyone on the warranty. Monoprice sucks last time I buy anything expensive from them.


----------



## kumar402

I think that clip is only in pic in their website and not in any production model.
But warranty of 1 year which was 5 years earlier is surprising.
I guess they will honour 5 yr for those who bought earlier?


----------



## fortunate son

LCMusicLover said:


> No clips on mine either. I purchased in November off eBay.



No clips on mine, purchased last November on ebay.


----------



## afireinside (May 20, 2019)

kumar402 said:


> read one of the comment in other forum where one guy claimed that the new LP that he has got has power supply from different supplier, this claim seems to be ok but then he claimed that the tube cutout seems to be bigger and with better tube socket. However his biggest claim is the gain is lower compared to previous production model. Is this true? any new owner can chime in who has experience with older version.
> As per his comment wth HE-500 he can go till 11 on volume dial compared to previous batch where he was more at 8:30-9



I saw that earlier as well. The guy mentioned the "new" power brick uses a standard IEC power cable as well. Looking at the stock photos on the Monoprice website, it looks like the power bricks that originally shipped with the LPs has a small 2 pin prong power plug? Anyway, I received my amp a few weeks ago, maybe a month tops. I ordered it after it came back in stock in April after what seemed to be a somewhat lengthy out-of-stock time period.

The power brick included with my amp is physically wider than the one in the photos on the Monoprice website, and it has a standard IEC power cable connection.
The XLR inputs on the back do not have any sort of clips.
As far as gain goes, I obviously don't have any other LPs to compare it to, but mine seems to have the same gain as everyone else's based on comments I've seen in this thread. With my HD800s, I wasn't getting much past the 9 o'clock position before it got too loud (~80 dbA, crudely measured by sticking a db meter in the ear cup).

I picked up one of those Nobsound passive preamps shortly after receiving the LP because the gain was just too much to have decent volume control or use high sensitivity cans IMO. I have the volume knob on that dialed back to around 11 o'clock, and even then I don't go much past 11-11:30 o'clock on the LP when powering my HD800S or HE-560s.


----------



## Wes S

Mine doesn't have clips either, and I was one of the first to own one.  I think there was a part's change right at the beginning, for the XLR's on the back.  Interesting about, the new power brick? and the warranty?


----------



## Wes S (May 20, 2019)

I would really like to know, what is going on with the warranty.  Where do you find, the info, that said 5 years?


----------



## afireinside

Wes S said:


> I would really like to know, what is going on with the warranty.  Where do you find, the info?



Right on the Monoprice.com product page... Main page, scroll down towards the bottom, says "warranty 1 year replacement". It's a photo, not text, so you won't find it if you do a "Ctrl+F" search for warranty.


----------



## Wes S (May 20, 2019)

afireinside said:


> Right on the Monoprice.com product page... Main page, scroll down towards the bottom, says "warranty 1 year replacement". It's a photo, not text, so you won't find it if you do a "Ctrl+F" search for warranty.


I see that, what I meant is, where else?  Is it in the manual or on the box?  I don't have either with me, at work, and was just curious.  I will look at both, when I get home.

Did anyone take a screen shot, of the warranty, when it said 5 years?  I would love to see that!


----------



## Wes S

Chatting with Monoprice, right now, and gave them my order #, and the agent came back and said it was only 1 year?  I ask if he could look again, and ask his supervisor, and I am waiting. . .and he came back and said they were aware of the warranty change, but that it was only good for 1 year? 

I am not satisfied with this answer, and will be digging further!


----------



## Wes S (May 20, 2019)

Correction! 

After further chatting, with the agent, they came back and said that indeed it is 5 years, and that they are going to correct the web page.  I have saved the conversion, just in case they try to say otherwise.


----------



## Schwibbles (May 20, 2019)

Wes S said:


> Correction!
> 
> After further chatting, with the agent, they came back and said that indeed it is 5 years, and that they are going to correct the web page.  I have saved the conversion, just in case they try to say otherwise.


Thank you for your investigative work. Hopefully this doesn't become an issue later when people start having issues and try to open warranty claims.

EDIT: I'm sure Monoprice knew full well what they were doing when the warranty picture on the product page was changed. There'd be no reason to even look at changing it unless it was intentional. This seems very sketchy to me. Of course, as long as they honor the 5 year warranties that the earlier units had, then it will fine. I wonder how they're keeping track of that, if at all.


----------



## CoFire

Schwibbles said:


> Thank you for your investigative work. Hopefully this doesn't become an issue later when people start having issues and try to open warranty claims.
> 
> EDIT: I'm sure Monoprice knew full well what they were doing when the warranty picture on the product page was changed. There'd be no reason to even look at changing it unless it was intentional. This seems very sketchy to me. Of course, as long as they honor the 5 year warranties that the earlier units had, then it will fine. I wonder how they're keeping track of that, if at all.



I'm almost certain they did this same thing earlier with the M1060 or M560 headphones or at least i read it on one of those threads and this was a year ago or so. They should give out a warranty card as opposed to a graphic on a website that does who's knows what over 5 years. Hopefully Monoprice sticks to its warranty word.


----------



## Wes S

Schwibbles said:


> Thank you for your investigative work. Hopefully this doesn't become an issue later when people start having issues and try to open warranty claims.
> 
> EDIT: I'm sure Monoprice knew full well what they were doing when the warranty picture on the product page was changed. There'd be no reason to even look at changing it unless it was intentional. This seems very sketchy to me. Of course, as long as they honor the 5 year warranties that the earlier units had, then it will fine. I wonder how they're keeping track of that, if at all.


I took screen shots, of the conversion with Monoprice, just to have as a backup.  Until I see it changed on the product page, I believe there will be issues.  I really hope they get it corrected, because any bad press, really takes away, from how awesome this amp really is.


----------



## Wes S

I still would love to have a screenshot, where it said 5 years, for backup, but it seems they have been scrubbed, from the web?  or I just can't find one. . .


----------



## rockytopwiz

CoFire said:


> I'm almost certain they did this same thing earlier with the M1060 or M560 headphones or at least i read it on one of those threads and this was a year ago or so. They should give out a warranty card as opposed to a graphic on a website that does who's knows what over 5 years. Hopefully Monoprice sticks to its warranty word.


It did, with the m1060.  I chatted in and had to verify the 5 year warranty and posted about it here.  Can't verify if that withheld because I never had to use the warranty.


----------



## Schwibbles

Wes S said:


> I took screen shots, of the conversion with Monoprice, just to have as a backup.  Until I see it changed on the product page, I believe there will be issues.  I really hope they get it corrected, because any bad press, really takes away, from how awesome this amp really is.


To be completely fair to Monoprice, the new 1 year time-frame is a pretty standard warranty. The 5 year warranty was longer than most warranties I've come across in this hobby. Like, I'm happy with the 2 years that I get from Focal and that's not even half of the original 5 years Monoprice was giving the Platinum. 

The problem is that they switched it quietly and I've dealt with them enough to know that they will try to use the 1 year excuse not to replace items that were purchased when it was 5 years. They will _usually_ take care of you, but it requires persistence on your end to get them to go through with it. They're very reluctant to send replacements or give refunds.
Both times I've had to either return or replace an item, I had to follow up with them a second time just to even get a response to my claim.  
Another time, I just tried to get replacement tubes for the Platinum because one of them died on me in the first 5 minutes of use. After a week of back and forth, they finally said they'd send me replacement tubes but it'd take a really long time because it had to go through their parts department. After that I replied if I need to send the nonfunctional ones back and I got no response.  At this point, it has been 6 months and I've given up on ever receiving the replacement stock tubes.

Just for the record, I've had no issues with the Liquid Platinum itself.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Wes S said:


> I still would love to have a screenshot, where it said 5 years, for backup, but it seems they have been scrubbed, from the web?  or I just can't find one. . .


5 year warranty badge is back

Thanks for digging into this -- looked, but couldn't find an emoji of a badger


----------



## Schwibbles

LCMusicLover said:


> 5 year warranty badge is back
> 
> Thanks for digging into this -- looked, but couldn't find an emoji of a badger


That's good news! We'll have to make sure they don't change it back again


----------



## Wes S

Schwibbles said:


> That's good news! We'll have to make sure they don't change it back again


I take that as a Victory!!!!


----------



## kumar402

Wes S said:


> Correction!
> 
> After further chatting, with the agent, they came back and said that indeed it is 5 years, and that they are going to correct the web page.  I have saved the conversion, just in case they try to say otherwise.


I remember it was 5years. As initially there were lot of QC posts going on so I double checked the website before I made my purchase and it was 5years. I got it in Nov18


----------



## omniweltall (May 20, 2019)

I doubt that was a mistake on their part. You guys think they wanted to change it to 1 year? How do we know they won't pull another one like this?


----------



## kumar402

omniweltall said:


> I doubt that was a mistake on their part. You guys think they wanted to change it to 1 year? How do we know they won't pull another one like this?


I think we have to keep checking every now and then.


----------



## Rattle

Pretty shady business practices. Hopefully people will learn their lesson. My LP has been awesome and not a single issue but I still won't buy from them again.


----------



## omniweltall

I love Alex's design. I know the LP sounds great. Just that Monoprice doesnt inspire confidence, for me personally.


----------



## Wes S

omniweltall said:


> I doubt that was a mistake on their part. You guys think they wanted to change it to 1 year? How do we know they won't pull another one like this?


The good thing is that it is all documented in this thread, and I have screen shots of the conversion, and webpage, for backup.


----------



## llcook51

LCMusicLover said:


> 5 year warranty badge is back
> 
> Thanks for digging into this -- looked, but couldn't find an emoji of a badger


Thanks.


----------



## nwavesailor (May 21, 2019)

Any folks here try the Cayin HA-1A Mk 2 or compared this amp to the Cavelli LP?


----------



## rockytopwiz

omniweltall said:


> I love Alex's design. I know the LP sounds great. Just that Monoprice doesnt inspire confidence, for me personally.


I would take Monoprice over (mass)drop any day.


----------



## Schwibbles

rockytopwiz said:


> I would take Monoprice over (mass)drop any day.


Why is that? 
I've had plenty of issues with Monoprice service but none with Massdrop. I can't imagine the build quality would be any worse from Massdrop either.


----------



## rockytopwiz

Schwibbles said:


> Why is that?
> I've had plenty of issues with Monoprice service but none with Massdrop. I can't imagine the build quality would be any worse from Massdrop either.


The biggest thing is they have a return policy, Massdrop does not.  I've never had an issue with any of the items I've gotten from either place, but Monoprice's customer service has always been MUCH quicker to respond and very courteous and helpful when I've had any questions.


----------



## JohnIgel

Wes S said:


> I still would love to have a screenshot, where it said 5 years, for backup, but it seems they have been scrubbed, from the web?  or I just can't find one. . .



Attached is a PDF of the entire web page in case they ever get amnesia.


----------



## Wes S

JohnIgel said:


> Attached is a PDF of the entire web page in case they ever get amnesia.


Thanks.  I have it saved else where, too.


----------



## DarktoreS

Today I received this famous Monolith by Cavalli, I joined it with my R2R Cronos Dac (Denafrips Ares) and my symmetrized Beyerdynamic DT1990. I must say that this configuration works remarkably well, just with the original tubes Electro Harmonix 6922 I find the rendering awesome. I'm waiting for a pair of Brimar Ediswan ECC88 1960's ordered match, while waiting for the Brimar tubes I'll have the opportunity to discover this beautiful amp that I think is worth much more than its price !


----------



## Wes S

DarktoreS said:


> Today I received this famous Monolith by Cavalli, I joined it with my R2R Cronos Dac (Denafrips Ares) and my symmetrized Beyerdynamic DT1990. I must say that this configuration works remarkably well, just with the original tubes Electro Harmonix 6922 I find the rendering awesome. I'm waiting for a pair of Brimar Ediswan ECC88 1960's ordered match, while waiting for the Brimar tubes I'll have the opportunity to discover this beautiful amp that I think is worth much more than its price !


Nice!  I was going to get that same dac, until I found a killer deal on my Gumby.  I really would love to hear that setup!


----------



## LCMusicLover

Wes S said:


> Nice!  I was going to get that same dac, until I found a killer deal on my Gumby.  I really would love to hear that setup!


I had that DAC (Ares) before my Pontus.  

Part of my odyssey searching for a way to 'soften' Utopia.  Ares helped with the 'sharpness' of Utopia, but (to my ears) cost too much detail.  This was all pre-LP out of SS amps, BHA-1 & V280.

Pontus is better, though still not as detailed as my Oppo Sonica, which w/ Laz Ref cable and LP, works very well w/ Utopia.  A little softer with Pontus, a little more detailed with Sonica, but surprisingly small difference.

Somewhere along the line I'll try a Gumby, but I'm waiting for a _killer deal_


----------



## Zachik

LCMusicLover said:


> Somewhere along the line I'll try a Gumby, but I'm waiting for a _killer deal_


Killer deals are reserved for cool guys like @Wes S


----------



## LCMusicLover

Zachik said:


> Killer deals are reserved for cool guys like @Wes S


Ouch!  That hurts!


----------



## Zachik

LCMusicLover said:


> Ouch!  That hurts!


Hey - no one is born cool... not even me... gotta work on that!!
For reference - my photos before and after I got cool...

Before I got cool:







...now I am super cool:


----------



## jasonho

LCMusicLover said:


> I had that DAC (Ares) before my Pontus.
> 
> Part of my odyssey searching for a way to 'soften' Utopia.  Ares helped with the 'sharpness' of Utopia, but (to my ears) cost too much detail.  This was all pre-LP out of SS amps, BHA-1 & V280.
> 
> ...



i too had a Pontus and looking to upgrade my CTH to LP.  Was wondering how this Pontus + LP combo will sound.....as compared to my current setup.


----------



## LCMusicLover

jasonho said:


> i too had a Pontus and looking to upgrade my CTH to LP.  Was wondering how this Pontus + LP combo will sound.....as compared to my current setup.


I have no complaints about the pairing. It’s what I’m pretty much listening to with all my cans at this point. At first I didn’t like the pairing with my Meze Empyrean, and preferred them out of my Bryston BHA-1. But I just rolled in some CV-2492 tubes that seem to make the Empy sound better. Bit of a pain to swap tubes just to change headphones though.

I’ve never heard the CTH, so I can’t help you with comparison to Liquid Platinum. I have seen others expressed the opinion that the liquid platinum is a step up.


----------



## kumar402 (May 22, 2019)

I got my Gumby from schiit but thinking should i return it and wait for killer deal as well since it often comes in sale forums.
How does Pontus compare with Onyx? do you feel there is bass roll off as well with R2R DACs along with high frequency
I was planning to get Onyx but ended up getting Gumby. 
HP will be 800s.


----------



## LCMusicLover

kumar402 said:


> I got my Gumby from schiit but thinking should i return it and wait for killer deal as well since it often comes in sale forums.
> How does Pontus compare with Onyx? do you feel there is bass roll off as well with R2R DACs along with high frequency
> I was planning to get Onyx but ended up getting Gumby.
> HP will be 800s.


I’ve never heard Onyx — twice the price of Gumby though. 

I don’t hear any bass roll-off from Pontus vs Oppo Sonica, my Ultra-Fi, or either of my TOTL DAPs (Cowon Plenue 2 & Opus#2).


----------



## CreditingKarma

kumar402 said:


> I got my Gumby from schiit but thinking should i return it and wait for killer deal as well since it often comes in sale forums.
> How does Pontus compare with Onyx? do you feel there is bass roll off as well with R2R DACs along with high frequency
> I was planning to get Onyx but ended up getting Gumby.
> HP will be 800s.



I have the onyx and lp. To me the pairing is great. I really enjoy it with the diana phi and clears. 

I like the sound of the onyx more than the hugo2. I found the hugo2 to be a bit harsh with some music the mscaler did make it sound much better. It surprised me that the mscaler did not make as much of an improvement with the onyx as it did with the hugo 2.

 The onyx really shines with my 2 channel setup though. It presents a wide sound stage and the bass has more depth and authority than delta sigma dacs. I find it better than my sp1000cu on the 2 channel.  I now use the sp1000cu almost exclusively with my Solaris or khans. I will also use it with the diana when I want to listen away from the desk. 

This might be my end game for a while. I am just struggling with wanting to try the pavane. I am not sure that I could justify the increase in price though as i have heard that thebonyx is close to the pavane. I read that even metrum recomend the onyx unless you do critical listening all the time.


----------



## nwavesailor (May 25, 2019)

Finally got off the fence and bough the LP. I must say, with 0 hours cold right out of the box it sounds pretty darn good!

Have already rolled:
6DJ8 Mullard UK
6DJ8 Amperex Herleen Orange Globe
6922 Amperex PQ Herleen (1967)
7308 Amperex NY, USA USN CEP (1965)
WE JW 2C51 (1953) w/ Garage 1217 adapter and they are quiet.......at least using SE cable!

All with Ether 2 hp
Can't wait for Tube Monger to ship the 6922 to 12A** adapters for some other tube options in the LP.


----------



## kumar402

WoW 
LP+ Gumby is a great combo. I'm not even using balanced connection as I don't have balanced preamp but with SE connection it sounds great.
The holographic soundstage is just wow.


----------



## CreditingKarma

kumar402 said:


> WoW
> LP+ Gumby is a great combo. I'm not even using balanced connection as I don't have balanced preamp but with SE connection it sounds great.
> The holographic soundstage is just wow.




I am really enjoying it with the onyx as well. The lp is a great amp and a really great value.


----------



## kumar402

CreditingKarma said:


> I am really enjoying it with the onyx as well. The lp is a great amp and a really great value.


I'm very much intrigued by Onyx. Did you by any chance compared Gumby with Onyx?


----------



## CreditingKarma

kumar402 said:


> I'm very much intrigued by Onyx. Did you by any chance compared Gumby with Onyx?



I have not had a chance to try the gumby. I was looking at the yggy but decided to give the onyx a shot. I am glad that I did. I am really liking it. I like it more than the qutest or hugo2 which I did compare it against. I actually prefer it to my sp1000cu in my speaker setup and with the LP as well. I think that you hear more of a difference with a 2 channel setup as opposed to headphones.


----------



## Cho Worsh (Mar 20, 2020)

Serge Bernamej said:


> I am incredibly disapointed. That’s my second replacement Liquid Platinum that is deffective with the same problem. The LP is simply not starting and it’s not coming from any problematic setting fro my part. I had tones of of amps before withiut any problem.
> Has anybody had experience with replacing the amp with Moniprice AFTER the 30 day period ?
> I’m nervous avout this I have to say...


The power supply went bad on my LP and Monoprice was great and got a replacement amp out to me right away. Very impressive customer support. Kudos, viva la Monoprice.


----------



## mcfarlandhifi

Hi, regarding that 5 year warranty. I have some unfortunately bad info for anyone who might have bought their Liquid Platinum from amazon.com and had it shipped to the UK (potentially affects Europe and others too).

My less that 6 month old LP died last week, it give a small 'pop' when turning on from the front power button and since has had no red or white light come on. I sought support from Monoprice who informed me that they will not honour the warranty and pointed me to the Limitations section of the Terms and Conditions of Amazon Export Sales.

Needless to say I'm pretty gutted about this, especially as I was a very happy user of the LP, with a recent addition of a SMSL SU-8 along with some balanced cables for my Mr Speakers AOFs

I may have to see about a repair locally at this point.

Anyway, read the small print and be aware if you have bought from amazon.com and have shipped to the UK that you may not have any warranty, let alone 5 years worth.


----------



## Wes S

mcfarlandhifi said:


> Hi, regarding that 5 year warranty. I have some unfortunately bad info for anyone who might have bought their Liquid Platinum from amazon.com and had it shipped to the UK (potentially affects Europe and others too).
> 
> My less that 6 month old LP died last week, it give a small 'pop' when turning on from the front power button and since has had no red or white light come on. I sought support from Monoprice who informed me that they will not honour the warranty and pointed me to the Limitations section of the Terms and Conditions of Amazon Export Sales.
> 
> ...


Damn!  Really sorry to hear about that!  I would cry, if I did not have my LP, and I am not kidding.  I love this amp, and really hope you find a solution.


----------



## mixman

I am reading a lot of love for this amp. I wonder would it be better to just get one of these than go all the way to something like the ICan Pro?


----------



## Wes S

mixman said:


> I am reading a lot of love for this amp. I wonder would it be better to just get one of these than go all the way to something like the ICan Pro?


This amp really punches above it's price point.  If you have hard to drive cans, or a good attenuator, it really is hard to beat this amp.


----------



## mcfarlandhifi

Wes S said:


> Damn!  Really sorry to hear about that!  I would cry, if I did not have my LP, and I am not kidding.  I love this amp, and really hope you find a solution.



Thanks Wes, I'm hoping it's something relatively easy to diagnose and fix for someone in the business of working with amps. 

I recall seeing a few reports of similar failures here, in my case I was very careful to never plug in the power lead to the unit whilst plugged into the mains. In fact it's been setup without any unplugging for over 3 months prior to this happening.


----------



## Wes S

mcfarlandhifi said:


> Thanks Wes, I'm hoping it's something relatively easy to diagnose and fix for someone in the business of working with amps.
> 
> I recall seeing a few reports of similar failures here, in my case I was very careful to never plug in the power lead to the unit whilst plugged into the mains. In fact it's been setup without any unplugging for over 3 months prior to this happening.


Please keep us posted, as to what you find out.  The fact that you never unplugged anything, for the last 3 months, has me a bit concerned.


----------



## kumar402

was tempted to try balanced input since I got Gumby but never had courage without preamp. However I ended up trying it out.
I had a blast but not sure how much beating my hearing took 
Tempted to try out new Freya, wish it was little cheaper


----------



## LCMusicLover

For those still dealing with attenuation issues, there’s an OG Freya for sale for $350 _over there. _


----------



## kumar402

LCMusicLover said:


> For those still dealing with attenuation issues, there’s an OG Freya for sale for $350 _*over there.* _


 Was looking at for sale forum here and then I realized


----------



## wenbinbin2010

Got a pair of the legendary Amperex 7308s this weekend, and I was pretty underwhelmed at first. With my LCD-4, it sounded too "tubey" to me. The thickness of the lower mids overwhelmed the vocals, and I couldn't get any EQ settings to get the treble to sound balanced. 

However...I decided to pull out my Verite that I had planned to sell, and holy smokes, the Verite sounds unbelieve with the LP+Amperex tubes. While some of the other tube I rolled (including the stock EH tubes) sounded pretty good with the LCD-4, the Amperex 7308 seems to pair better with headphones that are more on the analytical/detailed side. The Verite is pretty warm and lush overall IMO, but the treble can get fatiguing. The Amperex 7308s completely take away the fatiguing top-end and makes everything sound more lush and holographic. Bass notes and plucked strings seem to pop out with a 3D quality. Now I need to reconsider selling the Verites...


----------



## Wes S (Jun 3, 2019)

wenbinbin2010 said:


> Got a pair of the legendary Amperex 7308s this weekend, and I was pretty underwhelmed at first. With my LCD-4, it sounded too "tubey" to me. The thickness of the lower mids overwhelmed the vocals, and I couldn't get any EQ settings to get the treble to sound balanced.
> 
> However...I decided to pull out my Verite that I had planned to sell, and holy smokes, the Verite sounds unbelieve with the LP+Amperex tubes. While some of the other tube I rolled (including the stock EH tubes) sounded pretty good with the LCD-4, the Amperex 7308 seems to pair better with headphones that are more on the analytical/detailed side. The Verite is pretty warm and lush overall IMO, but the treble can get fatiguing. The Amperex 7308s completely take away the fatiguing top-end and makes everything sound more lush and holographic. Bass notes and plucked strings seem to pop out with a 3D quality. Now I need to reconsider selling the Verites...


Interesting, how many hours do you have on those 7308's?  Synergies with tubes, is real.  I found the 7308, to be to forward for me, but sure were fun to listen to.


----------



## wenbinbin2010

Wes S said:


> Interesting, how many hours do you have on those 7308's?  Synergies with tubes, is real.  I found the 7308, to be to forward for me, but sure were fun to listen to.



About 50 hours, so more burn-in was a consideration, but I don't suspect the sound will change that drastically. I think I've just come to realize I generally like to pair Audeze headphones and their house sound with solid state amps.


----------



## Luckbad

Looked what the cat dragged in today...


----------



## greenkiwi

Very pretty!!!


----------



## Wes S

Luckbad said:


> Looked what the cat dragged in today...


Wow!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Must have been a pretty big cat....


----------



## llcook51

Luckbad said:


> Looked what the cat dragged in today...


May I borrow your "cat"?


----------



## Wes S

llcook51 said:


> May I borrow your "cat"?


Ha. Ha.  If you ever need a cat sitter, let me know!


----------



## sahmen

So is @runeight planning on letting another "Liquid Cat" out of the bag any time soon?  A Monoprice or Massdrop Lau would be particularly mouth-watering, and will sell itself...  But i am preaching to a choir : I am sure about that...

I am just hoping the choir will sing with me, about the Lau... I think the LP has done a great job whetting appetites already.


----------



## Wes S

sahmen said:


> So is @runeight planning on letting another "Liquid Cat" out of the bag any time soon?  A Monoprice or Massdrop Lau would be particularly mouth-watering, and will sell itself...  But i am preaching to a choir : I am sure about that...
> 
> I am just hoping the choir will sing with me, about the Lau... I think the LP has done a great job whetting appetites already.


This has been mentioned before, I believe in this thread, and Alex Cavalli, said to hang tight, the future is still being written.  So, I hope something is in the works!


----------



## Phantaminum

Luckbad said:


> Looked what the cat dragged in today...



I’m curious how it compare against the Liquid Crimson?

Beautiful amp by the way.


----------



## JerryLeeds

Is there anything to worry about if I use XLR y cables to hook up my DAC to the LP and another headphone amp?

I would only have one headphone amp plugged into a power source at any one time.


----------



## pbear

Sadly, my LP has stopped working. I'm not sure whether the problem is with the LP itself or with the stock external power supply. With the external power supply plugged into the LP and the power switch on the LP off, plugging the power supply into a wall outlet causes the LED on the power supply to glow a steady green. Pushing the power switch on the LP to on causes the LED on the power supply to blink rapidly, and the LED on the front of the LP fails to light up at all. @runeight should I do an RMA for the LP, the external power supply, or both?

Assuming I need to do an RMA for the LP, that's complicated by the tubemonger socket savers that are currently installed, which I can't remove without opening the LP case (and even then it would be challenging). Would it be better to open the case and remove the socket savers, or leave the socket savers in and hope that Monoprice will return them as requested?


----------



## abvolt

I wouldn't leave the socket savers in may not get them back, the power supply should be very easy to test with a simple volt meter..


----------



## JerryLeeds

Try getting a tube puller ....


----------



## pbear

JerryLeeds said:


> Try getting a tube puller ....



Thanks for the suggestion. Where can I find one?


----------



## JerryLeeds

Try googling it ... There are some on eBay ... That is where I got mine ... Some are angled and others are straight


----------



## pbear

abvolt said:


> I wouldn't leave the socket savers in may not get them back, the power supply should be very easy to test with a simple volt meter..



The power supply measures ok: 36V and 1.5A. It's curious that it blinks while the LP is turned on, though.



JerryLeeds said:


> Try googling it ... There are some on eBay ... That is where I got mine ... Some are angled and others are straight



Yeah, I already googled (including a reverse image search) and checked on Amazon and eBay without finding anything similar before asking.


----------



## JerryLeeds (Jul 5, 2019)

Try searching and on eBay for this phrase:

Electron Vacuum Tube Extractor

You will see a few different ones


----------



## TroyS

I just received my LP yesterday, pickup one up used on eBay and really love what I am hearing so far, can’t wait for my balanced cable to get here to see what difference it makes. I am using it with a pair of LCD 2s and would like to do some tube rolling to bring back a little more bass, how important is matched tubes with this dc coupled design? From what I read if we are using pre amp tubes it’s not as important as power tubes but wasn’t sure if that was relating to audio amps. Up until now I have been using a project ember so I only had to worry about getting the numbers to be fairly close on a single tube. 

By the way what a difference in sound between the two amps, the ember was my first real amp after a little bear and never thought I would try anything better. I thought the lcds sounded their best on the ember with a 52 6sn7gt bad boy but the LP really brought out the upper range I didn’t know they were capable of. I did loose a fair amount of bass though.


----------



## jasonho

Anyone looking to get LP, Amazon is now selling one for $615.99 : https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07K7YSL41/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_10?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

New LP2 coming ?


----------



## Tacanacy

mcfarlandhifi said:


> Hi, regarding that 5 year warranty. I have some unfortunately bad info for anyone who might have bought their Liquid Platinum from amazon.com and had it shipped to the UK (potentially affects Europe and others too).
> 
> My less that 6 month old LP died last week, it give a small 'pop' when turning on from the front power button and since has had no red or white light come on. I sought support from Monoprice who informed me that they will not honour the warranty and pointed me to the Limitations section of the Terms and Conditions of Amazon Export Sales.
> 
> ...



There are two sellers on Amazon: Amazon itself and Monoprice. Which did you buy from?


----------



## mcfarlandhifi

Tacanacy said:


> There are two sellers on Amazon: Amazon itself and Monoprice. Which did you buy from?



My invoice says “Sold By: Amazon Export Sales LLC”

I have my LP in with a local audio repair shop i trust just now, hoping to hear good news soon!


----------



## mcfarlandhifi (Jul 7, 2019)

Tacanacy said:


> There are two sellers on Amazon: Amazon itself and Monoprice. Which did you buy from?



My invoice says “Sold By: Amazon Export Sales LLC”

I have my LP in with a local audio repair shop i trust just now, hoping to hear good news soon!

Oops sorry for the double post. Wonky signal whilst on the train.


----------



## Wes S

jasonho said:


> Anyone looking to get LP, Amazon is now selling one for $615.99 : https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07K7YSL41/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_10?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1
> 
> New LP2 coming ?


Damn!  That is a steal.


----------



## kdoof

I just got this amp in today, which I ordered to audition since I'm getting impatient waiting for my 789 Drop, and was getting pretty annoyed with my Asgard 2.

Overall, I like it. The build quality is surprisingly robust, as in knob feel and the overall heft of the thing, just the buttons feel a tad cheap (they shift about ever so slightly when you play a finger over them, as if they're mounted to a very light gauge spring, despite the buttons themselves having the same solid feel as the rest of the unit). Tube installation wasn't too bad, it helps to shine a light through the vents on the side because the sockets are pretty far down, so it's a challenge to blindly gauge where the pins are lining up otherwise.

Sound-wise, its strengths seem to me to be its holographic presentation and detail retrieval. I'm using a single-ended source (Bifrost Multibit) but I'd guess another pro is the truly balanced topology. There's ample power -- I'm a quiet listener, but with the 800's, 8 o'clock on the pot brings me to listening level, and maybe 7:30 via balanced, 7 o'clock being 'off'. Unfortunately if I go much quieter than my usual listening levels (which, like I said, is pretty quiet) there is a channel imbalance, and I only get the right channel. (Confirmed via flipping the headphones.)

Compared to other Cavalli amps I've heard (Massdrop/Cavalli, I guess-- the CTH and the LCX) I'd say this falls somewhere between them signature-wise, while mopping the floor with both as far as overall fidelity and clarity. I loooved the CTH while I had it, to the point I regret having sold it off. It was (to my memory) a really engaging and balanced listen with nice presence, with just a kiss of liquid-ish warmth, while also being just a tad serrated in its details, which wasn't unpleasant actually and provided some nice definition. (Maybe from the tube?) The LCX I found personally to sound too murky for my taste; it was sorta laid back or relaxed, and even aggressive music lost some impact. Detail retrieval was about the same as far as I remember to the CTH, but it all felt a bit sapped of energy, so those details weren't particularly captivating.

Anyway, the Liquid Platinum (so far) has detail retrieval for days, and with that holographic imaging I mentioned, it is a really enjoyable listen. It had been awhile since I'd picked out new details in some of the songs I'd heard a million times, but it's happening with this amp; albeit not 'huge' details like from my first ventures into mid fi, but rather little nuances -- guitar fretting, errant open notes that are just barely played, the microphonics of a guitar amp, ghost notes on a ride cymbal, all sort of effortlessly presented. It somewhat reminds me of the 650's (bear with me) where details in the mids and up top are not accentuated, and you'd think may be buried in the mix, but are still there and available, ready for your ears to detect them in a naturalistic way...

Yet, the LP somewhat shares that same restraint that LCX had, and it similarly makes music feel a little... bland? Sleepy? Even my wife, not into this audio bull whatsoever, remarked upon listening to some Fleetwood Mac that it sounded sort of relaxed, and she does not take pains to formulate opinions on the equipment I've had her sample. I also noticed that the bass has just a hint of boominess, though I wonder if that'd settle down with the tubes, which are probably not fully burned-in. (So maybe these impressions are premature -- but considering the LCX didn't have tubes to burn in, I'd be personally surprised if that relaxed quality ever dissipated.) Just to paint in shades of grey, the darker, laid-back sound is not as prominent or troublesome as it was with the LCX; but it is there, even if it's somewhat diluted by the amp's clarity and resolution.

It also seems like the balanced out may be something of a blessing or a curse, depending on your situation. The SE really does sound more overall compressed than the balanced overall, it lacks quite the same naturalistic depth. (I say this having A/Bed the HD800's and ZMF Ori's using a 1/4"-to-XLR adapter.) It's not like, a huuuuge difference, but it's enough of one that it's a bit of a comedown switching over to my single-ended HD600's from the balanced 800's, which hasn't really been the case with other amps where I'm switching between the two using the same output.

I think the mix of high gain and channel imbalance at levels I sometimes do listen to makes this an automatic DQ for my listening habits, though I also think the laid-back sound signature would make me hesitant to keep it for $600 clams -- let alone the usual $770 asking price. I imagine there are people for whom this will be just what they're looking for;I don't think it's for me. But I've got a couple more weeks to listen so I guess we'll see.


----------



## ls13coco

kdoof said:


> I just got this amp in today, which I ordered to audition since I'm getting impatient waiting for my 789 Drop, and was getting pretty annoyed with my Asgard 2.
> 
> Overall, I like it. The build quality is surprisingly robust, as in knob feel and the overall heft of the thing, just the buttons feel a tad cheap (they shift about ever so slightly when you play a finger over them, as if they're mounted to a very light gauge spring, despite the buttons themselves having the same solid feel as the rest of the unit). Tube installation wasn't too bad, it helps to shine a light through the vents on the side because the sockets are pretty far down, so it's a challenge to blindly gauge where the pins are lining up otherwise.
> 
> ...



I look forward to hearing your thoughts upon further burn-in and I hope you convince me to leave a higher number in my bank account - by going with the CTH. 

Any other planars to test with? My current collection as well as foreseeable purchases are mainly planar, I also read that planars jive quite well with the LP.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 10, 2019)

kdoof said:


> I just got this amp in today, which I ordered to audition since I'm getting impatient waiting for my 789 Drop, and was getting pretty annoyed with my Asgard 2.
> 
> Overall, I like it. The build quality is surprisingly robust, as in knob feel and the overall heft of the thing, just the buttons feel a tad cheap (they shift about ever so slightly when you play a finger over them, as if they're mounted to a very light gauge spring, despite the buttons themselves having the same solid feel as the rest of the unit). Tube installation wasn't too bad, it helps to shine a light through the vents on the side because the sockets are pretty far down, so it's a challenge to blindly gauge where the pins are lining up otherwise.
> 
> ...


Tube rolling can change things up a bit and often for the better.  Roll in an Amperex 7308, and you might have a different idea, of this amp.  Also this amp is very revealing of the DAC, being used.  However, I don't think this is the best amp for low level listening, because of the gain.  For rocking out, well this amp rocks.


----------



## mixman

Hmmm, this is getting tempting as an upgrade from my THX 789 especially at the Amazon price.


----------



## Wes S

mixman said:


> Hmmm, this is getting tempting as an upgrade from my THX 789 especially at the Amazon price.


After looking at your headphones in your signature and DAC, you really should consider the LP.  The LP would make your cans sing, and you have one of the best DACs for it, as well.


----------



## kdoof

mixman said:


> Hmmm, this is getting tempting as an upgrade from my THX 789 especially at the Amazon price.



I haven’t heard the 789 yet but could compare when mine arrives in late August. 

I’m curious what makes you consider the LP an upgrade?


----------



## kdoof

Wes S said:


> Tube rolling can change things up a bit and often for the better.  Roll in an Amperex 7308, and you might have a different idea, of this amp.  Also this amp is very revealing of the DAC, being used.  However, I don't think this is the best amp for low level listening, because of the gain.  For rocking out, well this amp rocks.



Hmm, maybe, but I won’t be dropping money on tubes since I’m probably not keeping this. I did turn it up a bit to listen to some black metal (the band Conjurer) and it still shared that relaxed quality. It’s not a volume thing really but an overall presentation thing.


----------



## kdoof

ls13coco said:


> I look forward to hearing your thoughts upon further burn-in and I hope you convince me to leave a higher number in my bank account - by going with the CTH.
> 
> Any other planars to test with? My current collection as well as foreseeable purchases are mainly planar, I also read that planars jive quite well with the LP.



Unfortunately no, Ori’s are my only planars at the moment. The bass was actually a touch overwhelming on the Ori’s via the LP, though I didn’t want to hit that note too hard since the Ori’s can be exceptionally warm compared to other  planars anyway.


----------



## Wes S

kdoof said:


> I haven’t heard the 789 yet but could compare when mine arrives in late August.
> 
> I’m curious what makes you consider the LP an upgrade?


It has tubes, and was designed by Alex Cavalli, which seems like a couple of upgrades, at least to me.


----------



## mixman

kdoof said:


> I haven’t heard the 789 yet but could compare when mine arrives in late August.
> 
> I’m curious what makes you consider the LP an upgrade?


Seems like a really good design. For me it would be more of a contrast to the RME’s headamp, which technically may be a little better than the amp on the THX. The RME and the THX are not far apart as far as sound, just power and dynamics, so the LP as a hybrid would be more of a contrast in sound.


----------



## CreditingKarma

kdoof said:


> I haven’t heard the 789 yet but could compare when mine arrives in late August.
> 
> I’m curious what makes you consider the LP an upgrade?



I think the first thing that would make it an upgrade is that it is a fully differential balanced amp. If you have a balanced dac that is a plus. I have not heard the 789 but was looking at one but massdrop can't seem to get their crap together and keep up with demand. 

The liquid platinum is a great amp and the only thing it lacks is a low gain setting. I can barely get the volume to 9 o'clock with my LCD x and clears. With the 1266 it sounds great and has more than enough power. I want to try it with a susvara.


----------



## Inoculator

kdoof said:


> Hmm, maybe, but I won’t be dropping money on tubes since I’m probably not keeping this. I did turn it up a bit to listen to some black metal (the band Conjurer) and it still shared that relaxed quality. It’s not a volume thing really but an overall presentation thing.



I personally found the stock tubes to be super relaxed. Gold Lions were too forward and detailed for me, but might be a good route for you to go with some initial tube rolling. Personally, I have landed on some NOS early 60s Telefunkens. Liked the Reflektor Holy Grails as well as an all-rounder, but they are still fairly relaxed. The Telefunkens have such a special treble presentation, can't help but love them.

I also personally found the amp to be more lively once I went all balanced.


----------



## Wes S

edited.


----------



## Wes S

kdoof said:


> Hmm, maybe, but I won’t be dropping money on tubes since I’m probably not keeping this. I did turn it up a bit to listen to some black metal (the band Conjurer) and it still shared that relaxed quality. It’s not a volume thing really but an overall presentation thing.


Seems strange to buy a tube amp, and then right it off, without rolling tubes, but that is just me.


----------



## mixman (Jul 10, 2019)

Wes S said:


> Seems strange to buy a tube amp, and then right it off, without rolling tubes, but that is just me.


Ha, new to this whole headphone tube rolling thing. The only amps I had been used to rolling tubes on were my Mesa Boogies and Marshalls and that was to see which distorts the best, not which is more lush and detailed!!!


----------



## ladavid

I actually like this amp better using rcas between my dac and amp.  Dac is an Exogal.  Maybe I need better cabling as using Kimber Hero in balanced and quite honestly disappointing - dull and closed in sounding.  Rcas comparing to are fairly inexpensive Dueland interconnects but bring back the light and dynamics to music.  

Have been using balanced headphone cable - made a good upgrade over stock headphone cable (ZMF)

So what balanced cables work well for you?


----------



## kdoof

Wes S said:


> Seems strange to buy a tube amp, and then right it off, without rolling tubes, but that is just me.



I bet you don't bat an eye when people audition a pair of headphones with stock pads and can say they're not for them though, right? And pads are much cheaper than $80 tubes that may or may not remedy my particular problems with this amp.

Just because you like the amp and it works for you doesn't mean it has to for everyone.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 10, 2019)

kdoof said:


> I bet you don't bat an eye when people audition a pair of headphones with stock pads and can say they're not for them though, righ t? And pads are much cheaper than $80 tubes that may or may not remedy my particular problems with this amp.
> 
> Just because you like the amp and it works for you doesn't mean it has to for everyone.


Actually the amp with stock tubes, did not work for me.  My point is, a tube amp can be tweaked, with tubes, and I actually don't know anyone with a tube amp, that still use the stock tubes.  Also, I don't bat an eye, when people don't like a particular headphone with stock pads, unless there is another set of pads made to be used with that particular headphone, like what ZMF does, with their suede and leather pads.


----------



## LCMusicLover

kdoof said:


> Hmm, maybe, but I won’t be dropping money on tubes since I’m probably not keeping this. I did turn it up a bit to listen to some black metal (the band Conjurer) and it still shared that relaxed quality. It’s not a volume thing really but an overall presentation thing.


Having read your longer/detailed impressions (well-done BTW) and this post, I’d say you come to a fairly accurate (and fair) opinion of this amp.

I agree that the LP has a somewhat relaxed character. I’m finding it hard to pair with my Empyrean — they’re also relaxed and need more energy. The pairing actually pretty good with Brimar CV-2492s, but still somewhat behind Empy paired with my (former) SS amps Violectric V280 & Bryston BHA-1 — better stage from LP, but still a little relaxed with slightly wooly bass. I’ve got a DSHA-3F coming which I hope will be a great pairing.

That said, LP pairs really well with all my other cans, but tube swaps made large improvements over the stock tubes. For example, my Ether 2s are really special from LP/Siemens NOS tubes (CCa & E88CC) — headstage is so 3d. And LP really pairs well with headphones which have an energetic or brighter sound. For example, both my Utopia and Auteur love it. The more relaxed sound coupled with the detail retrieval and stage make those pairings sing. LP/Siemens NOS tubes finally stopped my feelings of angst over how much I spent on Utopia.

The gain thing can be a real pain. I use a balanced passive pre-amp. Gives me source switching, a remote control and output to 2 amps. I had been using an Emotiva active preamp, but found it colored the sound noticeably with the LP (which I hadn't noticed with my other amps). With the passive, I can set the LP volume to 12:00 and then attenuate the input to get the working volume I want.

You didn’t say much about how the LP paired with your different cans. I’m curious if you got anything positive when listening to the LP/HD-800 combo. Frankly, if that didn’t pique your interest at least a little, then you should probably forget it. I didn’t get really excited about LP/Utopia pairing until I swapped out the stock tubes, but I could tell the potential was there. I will say that I never really appreciated my HD-6xx until I paired them with LP (w/ Siemens NOS tubes). I mean, they were ‘fine’, but that’s it, nothing that special — LP let me know what all the fuss was about.

Bottom line for you, LP may never get to your sweet spot. As a tube/hybrid amp, tube rolling can move the sound in various ways, but won’t over-haul its basic character. And you can easily spend $100s ‘nudging' the sound this way or that — I should know 

I notice you’re in the LA area, so perhaps you should consider a visit to the Schittery. Mjolnir 2 might be interesting if you want to try another tube/hybrid — I’ve heard a number of positive impressions regarding Lyr/Ori pairing. Jot is also said to be a great amp for them.

Cheers!


----------



## nwavesailor

LCMusicLover said:


> Having read your longer/detailed impressions (well-done BTW) and this post, I’d say you come to a fairly accurate (and fair) opinion of this amp.
> 
> I agree that the LP has a somewhat relaxed character. I’m finding it hard to pair with my Empyrean — they’re also relaxed and need more energy. The pairing actually pretty good with Brimar CV-2492s, but still somewhat behind Empy paired with my (former) SS amps Violectric V280 & Bryston BHA-1 — better stage from LP, but still a little relaxed with slightly wooly bass.
> 
> *Have you tried any Telefunken ECC82 in the LP with your Empy's? I find it a very nice pairing. YMMV*


----------



## LCMusicLover

No, I'm sticking with 'exact equivalent' tubes per @runeight advice.


----------



## kdoof

LCMusicLover said:


> Having read your longer/detailed impressions (well-done BTW) and this post, I’d say you come to a fairly accurate (and fair) opinion of this amp.
> 
> I agree that the LP has a somewhat relaxed character. I’m finding it hard to pair with my Empyrean — they’re also relaxed and need more energy. The pairing actually pretty good with Brimar CV-2492s, but still somewhat behind Empy paired with my (former) SS amps Violectric V280 & Bryston BHA-1 — better stage from LP, but still a little relaxed with slightly wooly bass. I’ve got a DSHA-3F coming which I hope will be a great pairing.
> 
> ...



I do like the amp overall and really don't want the final impression to be that I don't -- just saying. But for $600 I'm not really willing to compromise on certain aspects of it, and the high gain/channel imbalance thing is kind of a dealbreaker for me. The laid-back-ness isn't necessarily but in my experience with the LCX is something that can really bug me after some time, it's like having an itch that you can scratch 90% away, but that 10% that doesn't get itched starts to drive you insane after a bit.

The HD800 pairs very well with the LP. The soundstage of the 800's very nicely compliments the LP's considerable imaging. It might be a perfect pairing for some who don't like the 800's treble presence, but which has never bothered me personally. I'd be interested to see if the 800S ends up being a poor pairing comparatively, as the LP's bass with the 800's just skirted being overly bloomy, and the 800S'es woolier low end may tip it into the other side of the line to where it's not so appealing, it could end up being kind of diffuse or one-note. But maybe tubes would ameliorate that anyway, and maybe burn-in makes it a non-issue, as I mentioned.

It's true I wasn't crazy about the pairing with my Ori's, as the bass was a bit much via those (which is why I'll be interested to see if tube burn-in mitigates the boominess at least somewhat.) It didn't do anything to damage detail retrieval as far as I could tell, but it did seem to add a kind of hazy aura around the low end of the Ori's. And as far as 600's/650's, I don't honestly feel comfortable giving a big thumbs-up or -down since I only have their single-ended cables, but I've heard much better from both headphones, from much less expensive (single-ended) amps. If I were to hazard a guess I'd imagine the balanced pairing with the 600's could be pretty special, easing up some of their shoutiness while reinforcing their low-end a tad. The 650's could be great or could end up mushy, along the lines of the hypothetical 800/800S comparison.

And oh yes, for fun I visit the Schiitr pretty often, and have listened to the Mjolnir/Gumby combo a number of times. It's really nice but I don't know if I'm crazy about the Schiit house sound from their amps, they all sound a little abrasive to my ear. I say this having used primarily an Asgard 2 for nearly a year now, and a Magni 3 before that, and with a 2-week stint with a friend's borrowed Jotunheim. I have never been really pleased by any of their hybrid-tube/tube offerings, they all sound oddly dry to me, to be honest.


----------



## LCMusicLover

kdoof said:


> ...and the high gain/channel imbalance thing is kind of a dealbreaker for me...


I don't think I would own this amp without my preamp to attenuate. None of my cans play above 10:00 - 10:30ish without attenuation, and I hit channel imbalance with my Utopia when I listen quietly.

I should point out that both my DACs are balanced w/ 4Vrms output.

BTW, others have commented that LP's SE output is inferior.


----------



## kdoof

LCMusicLover said:


> I don't think I would own this amp without my preamp to attenuate. None of my cans play above 10:00 - 10:30ish without attenuation, and I hit channel imbalance with my Utopia when I listen quietly.
> 
> I should point out that both my DACs are balanced w/ 4Vrms output.
> 
> BTW, others have commented that LP's SE output is inferior.



Yeah that’s the thing too. If I ever upgraded from my 2V Bimby to something 4V I’d be boned and basically absolutely have to attenuate the signal somehow.


----------



## mixman

LCMusicLover said:


> I don't think I would own this amp without my preamp to attenuate. None of my cans play above 10:00 - 10:30ish without attenuation, and I hit channel imbalance with my Utopia when I listen quietly.
> 
> I should point out that both my DACs are balanced w/ 4Vrms output.
> 
> BTW, others have commented that LP's SE output is inferior.


Good thing I can use my RME to do some attenuating. The lack of gain isn’t a problem for me, since I usually run my THX at full gain anyway.


----------



## nwavesailor (Jul 10, 2019)

LCMusicLover said:


> No, I'm sticking with 'exact equivalent' tubes per @runeight advice.



"What could possibly go wrong!"
I do understand not wanting to damage your amp but the many 12AU7 options are, IMO ,so much better than all the 6DJ8, 6922 and 7308's I have tried. I have not tried, nor do I own, any of the CCA versions. The LP is a pretty  inexpensive amp so it's not like you are risking damage to a multi thosand $$$ piece of gear. There are many on the Lyr thread who have used ECC82 / 12AU7's or WE 2C51 for many months w/o issue. Heck, with the new lower cost of the LP on Amazon even if you did damage the amp it wouldn't be more than the cost of a pair or 2 of CCA's to buy a new one. 

If you tried the Telefunken 12AU7/ECC82 in the LP with the Empy's, you would not find it "relaxed and needing more energy"

LCMusicLover, your posts are one of the main reasons I spent the $ on the Empy's and I am glad I did! Like you, I also have the E2 but they get very little use now that I have the Empy's.

I think I've twisted your arm enough..............


----------



## LCMusicLover

nwavesailor said:


> ...LCMusicLover, your posts are one of the main reasons I spent the $ on the Empy's and I am glad I did!...


Not my fault man, quit trying to pin that on me!


> ...I think I've twisted your arm enough..............





LCMusicLover said:


> No, I'm sticking with 'exact equivalent' tubes per @runeight advice.


----------



## nwavesailor

LCMusicLover said:


> Not my fault man, quit trying to pin that on me!



LCML, I am THRILLED with the Empy's!!!  Just take a _little_ credit for pointing me in that direction..................


----------



## mixman

nwavesailor said:


> LCML, I am THRILLED with the Empy's!!!  Just take a _little_ credit for pointing me in that direction..................


 Empy's and tubes? I would expect the opposite with a neutral to bright SS amp being better. But who knows?


----------



## Wes S

kdoof said:


> Yeah that’s the thing too. If I ever upgraded from my 2V Bimby to something 4V I’d be boned and basically absolutely have to attenuate the signal somehow.


The amp doubles the 2v se input to 4v, so there is no difference.  I have the same range on the volume knob, with my Mimby SE and Gumby Balanced.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 11, 2019)

After reading through some of the recent post, and just reading about amp reviews in general, I guess I like it warm, and love bass, because the LP and Ori, are endgame for me.  Always interesting how we all like it differently, however I am thinking I might like it warmer than most.  With the LP, Gumby, and Ori combo, I would not want the sound any brighter at all, and could actually use a few more db of bass.  So put that in to perspective, if you read any of my post.


----------



## kdoof

With continued listening the timbre does seem to be getting sweeter and sweeter. Not really detecting a change in the 'relaxed' trait I've mentioned, nor in the bass yet, really.


----------



## mixman

kdoof said:


> With continued listening the timbre does seem to be getting sweeter and sweeter. Not really detecting a change in the 'relaxed' trait I've mentioned, nor in the bass yet, really.



 I can say........ you might be disappointed when you get your THX 789.


----------



## kdoof

mixman said:


> I can say........ you might be disappointed when you get your THX 789.


Would you mind elaborating? Curious to hear thoughts on the 789


----------



## mixman

OK still burning in the LP. In the case of the burn in.....they really mean it. This damn thing is burning up! I had to turn up my central air because this thing is so hot. Anyway, so far what I hear is not a laid back amp. It is definitely more dynamic than the THX. The bass is more full and because of the dynamics punches harder. At first turn on it was pretty bright, but seems to be mellowing out, but still has a touch more detail than either the 789 or RME. 

Gotta admit it doesn't sound like a tube amp to me. At this point, I am not in a hurry to do go back to the 789. More to come as it burns (for real) in.


----------



## jktw

@kdoof I am also moving from an Asgard 2. Just got a Bimby and it didn't impress me like I hoped, so for some reason I thought spending more cash was a good idea. It arrives Monday... my first foray into tubes.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 12, 2019)

Well, I woke up early to spend the morning, with my old friend the Ori. I absolutely love the thick, powerful, hard hitting, wide and deep sound, with the LP and Gumby. After hearing other people's thoughts, I don't think this sound is for everyone, but it sure is for me. I would like to add, that I listen at pretty loud volumes, and love to feel the music. Once you get loud enough, the dynamics kick in, and sounds explode all around. This sound sig, lets me listen for long sessions loud, without getting fatigued. If you are a low level listener, than the LP w/Brimar CV2492 tubes + Gumby + Ori, might not be for you, as it would be too muddy, and slow. 

Happy Friday!


----------



## mixman

So what are some good introductory tubes for the LP......Gold Lions? Don’t want to spend $150 on a set of Amperex tubes till I establish how much or how little it will effect the sound the way I would like them to.


----------



## Odin412

mixman said:


> So what are some good introductory tubes for the LP......Gold Lions? Don’t want to spend $150 on a set of Amperex tubes till I establish how much or how little it will effect the sound the way I would like them to.



Yes, the Gold Lions are a good place to start. They have a different sound signature than the stock tubes.


----------



## Wheel Hoss

Based on what you’re saying I think you should consider the Eddie Current ZDT Jr. It has that holographic presentation but also has what Zach Mehrbach calls a “meaty but clean” sound. Definitely not laid back or super-tubey. I think it’s the compressor.

I_want_all_the_tacoes from Reddit has the 800 and says it has super synergy with the ZDTj. And it has enough current for planars.


----------



## ra990 (Jul 12, 2019)

I totally didn't need this amp, but at the Amazon discount price, I couldn't resist. It sounds fantastic right out of the box. I have it connected via RCA outs from my Hugo TT2 as DAC and driving my Ether 2 balanced. The amp is adding some warmth and intimacy to the sound and the midrange is especially lush. I was hoping for a wider head stage, but it's actually decreased. That's understandable because connecting directly to the Hugo TT2 will probably provide me the best staging and any amp will likely just reduce it from there. I don't intend to keep it connected to the TT2 since the TT2 is definitely a superior amp for my headphones, but this makes for a great secondary rig for the bedroom. My first Cavalli amp and I get what the hype is about.


----------



## kdoof

@LCMusicLover is very kindly sending me some tubes to try some tube rolling. So I'm stoked for that!

In the meantime those mids do get sweeter and sweeter with burn-in, to the point I almost wonder if that 'recessed'-ness has gone. But after awhile it kind of becomes apparent again. There are just oodles and oodles of detail, yet there's just something slightly held back in the mids. I hear it most clearly in drums -- floor toms, etc. It's super subtle so I'm not surprised it doesn't bug everyone, and I'm glad -- it's a truly impressive amp.

Meanwhile I've switched back to the ZDT Jr I've been auditioning. It has the nefarious hum in the left channel but it's a really really enjoyable amp, very musical, though cleaner than I expected from a tube. It's definitely got the impact the LP lacks (in my opinion), despite trading out some refinement, soundstage, and detail.


----------



## Wes S

kdoof said:


> @LCMusicLover is very kindly sending me some tubes to try some tube rolling. So I'm stoked for that!
> 
> In the meantime those mids do get sweeter and sweeter with burn-in, to the point I almost wonder if that 'recessed'-ness has gone. But after awhile it kind of becomes apparent again. There are just oodles and oodles of detail, yet there's just something slightly held back in the mids. I hear it most clearly in drums -- floor toms, etc. It's super subtle so I'm not surprised it doesn't bug everyone, and I'm glad -- it's a truly impressive amp.
> 
> Meanwhile I've switched back to the ZDT Jr I've been auditioning. It has the nefarious hum in the left channel but it's a really really enjoyable amp, very musical, though cleaner than I expected from a tube. It's definitely got the impact the LP lacks (in my opinion), despite trading out some refinement, soundstage, and detail.


That is cool you have some tubes coming your way to try.  Depending on which tubes, I am sure you will change your mind about most things said about amp.


----------



## mixman (Jul 13, 2019)

kdoof said:


> @LCMusicLover is very kindly sending me some tubes to try some tube rolling. So I'm stoked for that!
> 
> In the meantime those mids do get sweeter and sweeter with burn-in, to the point I almost wonder if that 'recessed'-ness has gone. But after awhile it kind of becomes apparent again. There are just oodles and oodles of detail, yet there's just something slightly held back in the mids. I hear it most clearly in drums -- floor toms, etc. It's super subtle so I'm not surprised it doesn't bug everyone, and I'm glad -- it's a truly impressive amp.
> 
> Meanwhile I've switched back to the ZDT Jr I've been auditioning. It has the nefarious hum in the left channel but it's a really really enjoyable amp, very musical, though cleaner than I expected from a tube. It's definitely got the impact the LP lacks (in my opinion), despite trading out some refinement, soundstage, and detail.


So you say the ZDT is really only better as far as impact over the LP, but the LP is better in soundstage, detail and refinement, with no hum? To me that sounds like a no brainer.....even before tube rolling. The LP just sounds like a better amp period other than dynamics.

In all honesty at this point, if the LP doesn't work out for you than maybe you would need to go up the chain as far as other tube amps, if you want that tube sound. At that point you are beyond the THX AAA and what it can do.

I can say though that after more burn in the stock EH tubes are burning in perhaps too much for me? They have lost too much of that bite up top that I liked. Hopefully some Gold Lion tubes will add that back? I do not like too warm or lush.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 13, 2019)

Happy Saturday!

My Alpha Prime and I, are getting reacquainted, with the Gumby and LP combo.   Love me some tube glow!


----------



## kdoof

mixman said:


> So you say the ZDT is really only better as far as impact over the LP, but the LP is better in soundstage, detail and refinement, with no hum? To me that sounds like a no brainer.....even before tube rolling. The LP just sounds like a better amp period other than dynamics.
> 
> In all honesty at this point, if the LP doesn't work out for you than maybe you would need to go up the chain as far as other tube amps, if you want that tube sound. At that point you are beyond the THX AAA and what it can do.
> 
> I can say though that after more burn in the stock EH tubes are burning in perhaps too much for me? They have lost too much of that bite up top that I liked. Hopefully some Gold Lion tubes will add that back? I do not like too warm or lush.



I’m not really pursuing end game in terms of fidelity but merely enjoyment of music. (Im not really pursuing end game at all really.) I’m not convinced they’re the same thing. If I’m to choose between an amp that is more dynamically engaging and one that is expansive but doesn’t hit me viscerally the same way I’ll probably go for the dynamic one...especially if it’s cheaper or the same price. The ZDT’s impact to me comes from a more naturalistic timbre and presentation so it’s not like the LP is  point by point ‘better’, just some of the strengths compliment the ZDT’s less-strong suits. 

I’m interested to hear the 789 mostly for curiosity’s sake. I’m not a measurement hound but it sounds like a cool piece of kit; and if it’s not for me it’s an easy sell to recoup my money.


----------



## mat.1

LCMusicLover said:


> Having read your longer/detailed impressions (well-done BTW) and this post, I’d say you come to a fairly accurate (and fair) opinion of this amp.
> 
> I agree that the LP has a somewhat relaxed character. I’m finding it hard to pair with my Empyrean — they’re also relaxed and need more energy. The pairing actually pretty good with Brimar CV-2492s, but still somewhat behind Empy paired with my (former) SS amps Violectric V280 & Bryston BHA-1 — better stage from LP, but still a little relaxed with slightly wooly bass. I’ve got a DSHA-3F coming which I hope will be a great pairing.
> 
> ...


Can Siemens E88CC A Frame make the dark sound on ether 2 open up?
I find the ether 2 is to dark and try to change tube between amperex 7308 or Siemens E88cc a frame to solve this problem.


----------



## LCMusicLover

mat.1 said:


> Can Siemens E88CC A Frame make the dark sound on ether 2 open up?
> I find the ether 2 is to dark and try to change tube between amperex 7308 or Siemens E88cc a frame to solve this problem.


I wouldn't recommend either of those to 'brighten' up cans. For me, the Brimar CV 2492s did this best (with my Empyrean), followed by Gold Lions. In fact, I love how my 'brighter' headphones, Utopia and Auteur, sound from my Siemens and my Amperex.

I should add that, to my ears, E2 don't sound dark.  Rather I would say they are pretty linear, with slightly recessed highs.


----------



## wenbinbin2010

Is there any danger to the LP in running two different headphones out of the SE and balanced headphone outs at the same time? I've always had my headphones pair with different amps, but recently found that I like both the HE1000se and Verite running off the LP. I'm not familiar with electric engineering at all, so pardon my ignorance. FWIW, I don't hear any differences in sound or volume whether both outputs are being used, or just one.


----------



## ra990

wenbinbin2010 said:


> Is there any danger to the LP in running two different headphones out of the SE and balanced headphone outs at the same time? I've always had my headphones pair with different amps, but recently found that I like both the HE1000se and Verite running off the LP. I'm not familiar with electric engineering at all, so pardon my ignorance. FWIW, I don't hear any differences in sound or volume whether both outputs are being used, or just one.


Just be careful, doing that has the potential for opening up a portal into another dimension. Try it and let us know how it works out.


----------



## wenbinbin2010

ra990 said:


> Just be careful, doing that has the potential for opening up a portal into another dimension. Try it and let us know how it works out.



Huh...never thought of that. I'll try putting the Verite on one ear and the HE1000se on the other. If you never hear from me again, you'll know it works!


----------



## Wheel Hoss

wenbinbin2010 said:


> Huh...never thought of that. I'll try putting the Verite on one ear and the HE1000se on the other. If you never hear from me again, you'll know it works!



Now you’re just showing off.


----------



## kumar402

kdoof said:


> I haven’t heard the 789 yet but could compare when mine arrives in late August.
> 
> I’m curious what makes you consider the LP an upgrade?


I have 789 and LP and I can confidently say for vocals 789 is no match to LP. The vocals on 789 is veiled.


----------



## mixman

kumar402 said:


> I have 789 and LP and I can confidently say for vocals 789 is no match to LP. The vocals on 789 is veiled.



What are your overall comparisons between the 789 and the LP? Which tubes are you using in your LP?


----------



## Shane D

For the Canucks on the board, this amp is on Prime Days special for $769.00, Canadian $'s. For the next few hours.

Shane D


----------



## ra990

Question about gain level between the XLR and RCA inputs. Are they different so that they are volume matched? @runeight 

I did an experiment where I had the Topping D70 DAC (rated output at 2v/RCA and 4v/XLR) connected to the LP with both RCA and XLR. I was expecting to hear a difference when switching inputs between RCA and XLR, with XLR being louder - but I found absolutely no difference in sound. I thought maybe the D70 was not putting out 4v on XLR like published, but Amir on ASR forum mentioned that the inputs would have different gain levels to compensate for the volume. Is that the case with the LP?


----------



## Wes S (Jul 19, 2019)

ra990 said:


> Question about gain level between the XLR and RCA inputs. Are they different so that they are volume matched? @runeight
> 
> I did an experiment where I had the Topping D70 DAC (rated output at 2v/RCA and 4v/XLR) connected to the LP with both RCA and XLR. I was expecting to hear a difference when switching inputs between RCA and XLR, with XLR being louder - but I found absolutely no difference in sound. I thought maybe the D70 was not putting out 4v on XLR like published, but Amir on ASR forum mentioned that the inputs would have different gain levels to compensate for the volume. Is that the case with the LP?


Alex Cavalli explained this earlier, and said the the se inputs are doubled to make it balanced, so the gain is the same whether you are using se or balanced inputs.

It is better to look at Atomic Bob's measurments and review, of the LP, than ASR.  The ASR guy, did not test correctly.

Post # 2003
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...by-alex-cavalli.876406/page-134#post-14880391


----------



## kumar402

ra990 said:


> Question about gain level between the XLR and RCA inputs. Are they different so that they are volume matched? @runeight
> 
> I did an experiment where I had the Topping D70 DAC (rated output at 2v/RCA and 4v/XLR) connected to the LP with both RCA and XLR. I was expecting to hear a difference when switching inputs between RCA and XLR, with XLR being louder - but I found absolutely no difference in sound. I thought maybe the D70 was not putting out 4v on XLR like published, but Amir on ASR forum mentioned that the inputs would have different gain levels to compensate for the volume. Is that the case with the LP?


LP converts 2v input to 4v so your DAC is perfectly fine


----------



## Malcolm Riverside

ladavid said:


> I actually like this amp better using rcas between my dac and amp.  Dac is an Exogal.  Maybe I need better cabling as using Kimber Hero in balanced and quite honestly disappointing - dull and closed in sounding.  Rcas comparing to are fairly inexpensive Dueland interconnects but bring back the light and dynamics to music.
> 
> Have been using balanced headphone cable - made a good upgrade over stock headphone cable (ZMF)
> 
> So what balanced cables work well for you?


Finally another head-fier with an Exogal Comet dac! These things are ridiculously underrated amongst the head-fi community and I don’t understand why. Anyway, unlike most dacs, the Exogal outputs the same Vrms from its balanced and single-ended outputs, (most dacs have double the Vrms from their balanced output) while the LP uses a phase-splitter at its se input to amplify the incoming signal. So the Liquid Platinum’s inputs are designed to equalize an output power discrepancy that the Exogal doesn’t have. Thus when I use a single-ended chain from the Exogal to the LP it is twice as loud as going balanced from the dac to the amp. (This is all in reference to using the balanced headphone output on the LP btw.) I also preferred to use the se input on the LP from my Exogal—I found more play on the volume knob and a livelier sound from the amp. So long story short, it’s not your cables, it’s this dac and amp combo running balanced that present unique issues. I’d love to try the LP with a different balanced dac—like the Gumby I used to have—to take better advantage of the fully balanced chain, but not enough to get rid of my Exogal Comet anytime soon!


----------



## hemtmaker

Wes S said:


> Happy Saturday!
> 
> My Alpha Prime and I, are getting reacquainted, with the Gumby and LP combo.   Love me some tube glow!


Nice setup! Is this the multibit version


----------



## Wes S

hemtmaker said:


> Nice setup! Is this the multibit version


Thanks! Yes, it is the Gungnir Multibit.  I use an Eitr to connect my ipad to DAC.


----------



## mixman

Any other tubes recommended that don't break the bank( < $100 Pr), but have great detail, expensive soundstage and not too warm, even slightly bright? I have the Gold Lions, while an improvement they are not quite there. I wish I could find the Brimar's domestically, as I will not have enough time to import them before I have to decided whether to keep this amp.


----------



## Zachik

mixman said:


> Any other tubes recommended that don't break the bank( < $100 Pr), but have great detail, expensive soundstage and not too warm, even slightly bright? I have the Gold Lions, while an improvement they are not quite there. I wish I could find the Brimar's domestically, as I will not have enough time to import them before I have to decided whether to keep this amp.


Brimar tubes are warm. Many (myself included) love it, but since you're looking for non-warm tubes - I suggest you do not even consider Brimar


----------



## TK16

mixman said:


> Any other tubes recommended that don't break the bank( < $100 Pr), but have great detail, expensive soundstage and not too warm, even slightly bright? I have the Gold Lions, while an improvement they are not quite there. I wish I could find the Brimar's domestically, as I will not have enough time to import them before I have to decided whether to keep this amp.


Have a pair of Mullard Mitcham E88CC in the classifieds here, but they are warm tubes like the Brimar CV2492 and not your desired sound sig. If your open to using socket savers and 12A*7 to ECC88 adapters the Telefunken ECC82 and Siemens ECC82 fit your description And are in my signature. If your not into the adapter scene that's cool too. I can make some recommendations on 6DJ8 variants if you want?


----------



## LCMusicLover

Zachik said:


> Brimar tubes are warm. Many (myself included) love it, but since you're looking for non-warm tubes - I suggest you do not even consider Brimar


I think this is relative.  My Brimar CV-2492s are not as warm as my Siemens E88CCs or CCa tubes. The Brimar pair better with my Empyrean, which appreciate the Siemens warmth less compared with my HEKv2, and especially my Utopia and Auteur. Ether 2 are pretty happy either way.


----------



## Wes S

LCMusicLover said:


> I think this is relative.  My Brimar CV-2492s are not as warm as my Siemens E88CCs or CCa tubes. The Brimar pair better with my Empyrean, which appreciate the Siemens warmth less compared with my HEKv2, and especially my Utopia and Auteur. Ether 2 are pretty happy either way.


There are a couple different Brimar CV2492 versions out there as well.  One is real, and the other is Russian made, so it depends on that as well.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> There are a couple different Brimar CV2492 versions out there as well.  One is real, and the other is Russian made, so it depends on that as well.


Yeah those British CV2492 have "KB/AD" on the paint. Rochester iirc?


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Yeah those British CV2492 have "KB/AD" on the paint. Rochester iirc?


The KB/AD is a good indicator, that they are the good ones.  I have seen Mullard and Russian's with the CV2492, but they did not have the KB/AD.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Wes S said:


> There are a couple different Brimar CV2492 versions out there as well.  One is real, and the other is Russian made, so it depends on that as well.


I think I got the 'right' ones.  From eBay seller yellowlorryredlorry. This auction:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-CCa-E88C...m43663.l10137&nordt=true&rt=nc&orig_cvip=true

Anyway, my impressions are based on those tubes.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 22, 2019)

LCMusicLover said:


> I think I got the 'right' ones.  From eBay seller yellowlorryredlorry. This auction:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-CCa-E88C...m43663.l10137&nordt=true&rt=nc&orig_cvip=true
> 
> Anyway, my impressions are based on those tubes.


Yep!  Those are the good ones.  I put those same tubes in, and have not even thought about rolling anything else.  I love how they are smooth, but detailed.


----------



## Phantaminum

mixman said:


> Any other tubes recommended that don't break the bank( < $100 Pr), but have great detail, expensive soundstage and not too warm, even slightly bright? I have the Gold Lions, while an improvement they are not quite there. I wish I could find the Brimar's domestically, as I will not have enough time to import them before I have to decided whether to keep this amp.



Look for something like the Tungsram 6922. You can purchase a pair off eBay for that price. Be sure to buy from a seller that allows you to return tubes in case you run into any issues.


----------



## nwavesailor

LCMusicLover said:


> I think I got the 'right' ones.  From eBay seller yellowlorryredlorry. This auction:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-CCa-E88C...m43663.l10137&nordt=true&rt=nc&orig_cvip=true
> 
> Anyway, my impressions are based on those tubes.



It looks like this UK based E-bay seller no longer has these Brimar CCa listed.


----------



## LCMusicLover

nwavesailor said:


> It looks like this UK based E-bay seller no longer has these Brimar CCa listed.


The auction description says CCa, but the tubes say CV-2492.

And you just need to keep watching.  He puts a pair every couple of weeks (or less).  But he doesn't have a single auction listing all his stock -- as in 'xx available'.

GLTY


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> It looks like this UK based E-bay seller no longer has these Brimar CCa listed.


Knowing what UK ECC82 tubes you have, I'd recommend skipping the CV2492.


----------



## nwavesailor

TK16 said:


> Knowing what UK ECC82 tubes you have, I'd recommend skipping the CV2492.



Thanks Thomas!

I REALLY don't need anymore tubes......................


----------



## Wes S

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.it/ulk/itm/202737988850

Here are some Brimar.


----------



## mixman

TK16 said:


> Have a pair of Mullard Mitcham E88CC in the classifieds here, but they are warm tubes like the Brimar CV2492 and not your desired sound sig. If your open to using socket savers and 12A*7 to ECC88 adapters the Telefunken ECC82 and Siemens ECC82 fit your description And are in my signature. If your not into the adapter scene that's cool too. I can make some recommendations on 6DJ8 variants if you want?



Thanks. What are some variants I can directly use.....and not have to import? Don't want to spend a lot on adapters and tubes, at least till I know I want to keep it. Just looking for tubes a  little more neutral sounding. May not have time to import before I decide whether the amp is for me or not. Have about 20 days left.


----------



## TK16

mixman said:


> Thanks. What are some variants I can directly use.....and not have to import? Don't want to spend a lot on adapters and tubes, at least till I know I want to keep it. Just looking for tubes a  little more neutral sounding. May not have time to import before I decide whether the amp is for me or not. Have about 20 days left.


Neutralish sounding Siemens E88CC grey shields or Telefunken E88CC, these are bit warmer than the Siemens with the Siemens having more detail. If those are too expensive you can try the ECC88 variants as they will be cheaper than the E88CC usually.


----------



## mixman

TK16 said:


> Neutralish sounding Siemens E88CC grey shields or Telefunken E88CC, these are bit warmer than the Siemens with the Siemens having more detail. If those are too expensive you can try the ECC88 variants as they will be cheaper than the E88CC usually.


 I have seen some Matsushita's 7DJB's around and have been described as extended on the top and bottom. Any good?


----------



## TK16

mixman said:


> I have seen some Matsu****a's 7DJB's around and have been described as extended on the top and bottom. Any good?


Never tried them but the people who have found them mediocre sounding usually.


----------



## nishan99

Hi 

I am wondering how exactly does this amp work?

are the tubes jusk an input buffers or do they actually amplify the signal ?


----------



## victor158128

This might be a noob question, but I was looking at the balanced power output on this unit. 
33Ω 6.62 watts 
56Ω 4.21 watts 
150Ω 1.74 watts
300Ω 0.91 watts
But it also says on the webstite "the Platinum features fully balanced/differential amplification with 3.6 watts per channel (balanced) into 50R load". 
what exactly is the RMS power output? 
For those who have NFB11 and LP, would you say LP is a noticeable upgrade pairing with HD600 series balanced?


----------



## chimney189

Has anyone been able to compare the LP to the WA6 (non-SE)?


----------



## Odin412

chimney189 said:


> Has anyone been able to compare the LP to the WA6 (non-SE)?



I have both and IMHO they are quite different. The WA6 (I have the original, not the current V2) is a very lush-sounding tube amp and tube rolling can change the sound quite a bit. The LP has the trademark liquid Cavalli midrange but is more neutral-sounding to my ears.


----------



## chimney189

Odin412 said:


> I have both and IMHO they are quite different. The WA6 (I have the original, not the current V2) is a very lush-sounding tube amp and tube rolling can change the sound quite a bit. The LP has the trademark liquid Cavalli midrange but is more neutral-sounding to my ears.



Which would you say has greater bass impact?


----------



## Odin412

chimney189 said:


> Which would you say has greater bass impact?



The LP, especially using the balanced output.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 31, 2019)

Odin412 said:


> The LP, especially using the balanced output.


I thought that might be the answer, as I really can't imagine the bass hitting any harder, than with the LP and the right tubes.  The bass just explodes out of nowhere!


----------



## chimney189

Wes S said:


> I thought that might be the answer, as I really can't imagine the bass hitting any harder, than with the LP and the right tubes.  The bass just explodes out of nowhere!



I see that you also have the BHC w/SB... how would that compare to the LP?


----------



## Wes S

chimney189 said:


> I see that you also have the BHC w/SB... how would that compare to the LP?


Hey there,

The BHC Speedball, has a bit bigger stage, is a little smoother, and more 3 dimensional, with better seperation, using my Aeolus.  The LP however, is a little stronger in the bass, and the mids are just as good, but a little more forward, and not quite as 3 dimensional.  The overall tonality of both amps, is really close with the LP being a bit more neutral, with both sounding hauntingly lifelike in the mids.  They both have their strengths, but I prefer the BHC with my Aeolus (300 ohm dynamic), and the LP with my Ori/Blackwood/Alpha Prime (50 ohm planars).  However, I would be happy with either one, using my Aeolus.  Of course some of this can change a bit, with tube rolling.


----------



## sfc1985221

Hello,

Does anyone try to drive hifiman he6se via *Liquid Platinum?  Is it enough power to drive?

Thanks!*


----------



## SilverEars

Did they fix the gain issue yet?


----------



## kumar402

So I rolled in CV2492 yesterday. The tube is still new and I didn’t have extended listen but can definitely say that these tubes have energy in treble and is airy. Anyone who thinks their LP is laid back should try out these tubes or if you own pair of darker cans or if you are in mood to listen to music with more energy up top then roll in these tubes.


----------



## LCMusicLover

kumar402 said:


> So I rolled in CV2492 yesterday. The tube is still new and I didn’t have extended listen but can definitely say that these tubes have energy in treble and is airy. Anyone who thinks their LP is laid back should try out these tubes or if you own pair of darker cans or if you are in mood to listen to music with more energy up top then roll in these tubes.


Yep, I prefer my Empyrean w/ LP/Brimar CV-2492 for exactly the reasons you mention.


----------



## kumar402

SilverEars said:


> Did they fix the gain issue yet?


I think the new one only has power brick from a new Supplier and no change in internals. You may need some preamp.


----------



## Inoculator

kumar402 said:


> So I rolled in CV2492 yesterday. The tube is still new and I didn’t have extended listen but can definitely say that these tubes have energy in treble and is airy. Anyone who thinks their LP is laid back should try out these tubes or if you own pair of darker cans or if you are in mood to listen to music with more energy up top then roll in these tubes.



I have been really surprised lately as well about how effective tube rolling with the LP is. ZMF Auteurs sound congested, and not very lively with some NOS Holy Grail Reflektors I have, while the HD 800s sounds great and has a fantastic mid-presentation. But when I switch some NOS 60's Telefunkens the Auteur has a very holographic soundstage and the high end has some serious magic going on without sacrificing some of the best bass-mids I have ever heard. 

I keep meaning to do a longer post about tube rolling with the LP, but have an infant at home, have been auditioning a variety of cans to find endgame, and just haven't had time to A-B test enough to give clear or useful thoughts. About to get an Aeolus in the mix for testing with Auteur and HD 800s, will try to be a bit more mindful of what tubes I land on for each can and the differences I notice.


----------



## Hansotek

Our annual Blue Note Awards were just published today. Liquid Platinum takes home top honors:

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0919/Blue_Note_Awards_2019/Monoprice.htm

Well done, @runeight!!


----------



## Tacanacy

Hansotek said:


> Our annual Blue Note Awards were just published today. Liquid Platinum takes home top honors:
> 
> http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0919/Blue_Note_Awards_2019/Monoprice.htm
> 
> Well done, @runeight!!



They should update their article; the amp costs $800 -- not $700.
It's a little cheaper on Amazon, but Monoprice offers no warranty outside of North America.


----------



## Wes S

Hansotek said:


> Our annual Blue Note Awards were just published today. Liquid Platinum takes home top honors:
> 
> http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0919/Blue_Note_Awards_2019/Monoprice.htm
> 
> Well done, @runeight!!


Heck yes!  This really is one hell of an amp, and it seems I am not the only one to think so!  Thanks Alex Cavalli!


----------



## Wes S

Inoculator said:


> I have been really surprised lately as well about how effective tube rolling with the LP is. ZMF Auteurs sound congested, and not very lively with some NOS Holy Grail Reflektors I have, while the HD 800s sounds great and has a fantastic mid-presentation. But when I switch some NOS 60's Telefunkens the Auteur has a very holographic soundstage and the high end has some serious magic going on without sacrificing some of the best bass-mids I have ever heard.
> 
> I keep meaning to do a longer post about tube rolling with the LP, but have an infant at home, have been auditioning a variety of cans to find endgame, and just haven't had time to A-B test enough to give clear or useful thoughts. About to get an Aeolus in the mix for testing with Auteur and HD 800s, will try to be a bit more mindful of what tubes I land on for each can and the differences I notice.


My current favorite tube for this amp, has now become the Bugle Boy Holland ECC88 D getters, from the 50's.  The Bugle Boy, has dethroned my beloved Brimar CV2492.


----------



## Wes S

Wes S said:


> My current favorite tube for this amp, has now become the Bugle Boy Holland ECC88 D getters, from the 50's.  The Bugle Boy, has dethroned my beloved Brimar CV2492.


Just to add, a little something about tube rolling - this amp is very transparent and really lets you hear different tubes, and is very responsive to tube rolling, as stated by members already.


----------



## TK16

Hazelhart said:


> They should update their article; the amp costs $800 -- not $700.
> It's a little cheaper on Amazon, but Monoprice offers no warranty outside of North America.


I remember some type of Ebay promotion when the amp came out around $600, then it went to $699, by the time I got mine it was $769. Now $799.


----------



## Inoculator

Wes S said:


> My current favorite tube for this amp, has now become the Bugle Boy Holland ECC88 D getters, from the 50's.  The Bugle Boy, has dethroned my beloved Brimar CV2492.



Thanks for the tip! Do you like those with your Aeolus? I have an Aeolus on the way that I am auditioning against my Auteur and HD 800s, would love to treat it to some tubes that pair nicely.


----------



## knivek

I am in the market to purchase one of these.  Debating picking up a used one on the forum here but worried about performance issues or shipping issues to Canada..  not sure there is a Canadian vendor up here.  Amazon.ca new is super expensive


----------



## Wes S

Inoculator said:


> Thanks for the tip! Do you like those with your Aeolus? I have an Aeolus on the way that I am auditioning against my Auteur and HD 800s, would love to treat it to some tubes that pair nicely.


I have not tried them with my Aeolus yet, as my Aeolus have been rocking with my Bottlehead Crack Speedball, but they are a killer match with my Ori and Blackwood.  I will try my Aeolus with those tubes and LP this weekend, and let you know how it sounds.  I am thinking they are going to be a great pairing.


----------



## mixman

Wes S said:


> Just to add, a little something about tube rolling - this amp is very transparent and really lets you hear different tubes, and is very responsive to tube rolling, as stated by members already.



When I tried the LP with Gold Lion tubes, I can't say I noticed that much of a change over the stock tubes, and therefore didn't think tube rolling changed the sound much. You are saying tube rolling can change the sound significantly?


----------



## skyline315

mixman said:


> You are saying tube rolling can change the sound significantly?


Define significantly.  That means something different to everyone.

Tube rolling won't change the amp.  But, it can help with synergy depending on the rest of your chain.


----------



## Wes S

mixman said:


> When I tried the LP with Gold Lion tubes, I can't say I noticed that much of a change over the stock tubes, and therefore didn't think tube rolling changed the sound much. You are saying tube rolling can change the sound significantly?


I would say significant, with the right tubes, as in going from unlistenable to listenable with zero fatigue.  That seems to be, significant to me.


----------



## mixman

skyline315 said:


> Define significantly.  That means something different to everyone.
> 
> Tube rolling won't change the amp.  But, it can help with synergy depending on the rest of your chain.


Well I tried to add more high end, detail and give the soundstage a more 3D effect. Not trying to make it much more lush. Not sure if that can be accomplished by tube rolling.


----------



## LCMusicLover

mixman said:


> Well I tried to add more high end, detail and give the soundstage a more 3D effect. Not trying to make it much more lush. Not sure if that can be accomplished by tube rolling.


For me, Brimar CV-2492s nudged the amp in the direction you’re trying for. NOS Siemens really helped the stage, but also nudged tonality a bit warmer/lusher, which you don’t want. Same w/ Amperex PQs, with eve more warmth and less stage expansion.


----------



## mixman

LCMusicLover said:


> For me, Brimar CV-2492s nudged the amp in the direction you’re trying for. NOS Siemens really helped the stage, but also nudged tonality a bit warmer/lusher, which you don’t want. Same w/ Amperex PQs, with eve more warmth and less stage expansion.


What would you say tube rolling changes are on the LP....minor or pretty significant?


----------



## Wes S (Aug 29, 2019)

mixman said:


> Well I tried to add more high end, detail and give the soundstage a more 3D effect. Not trying to make it much more lush. Not sure if that can be accomplished by tube rolling.


Find a bright tube.


----------



## LCMusicLover

mixman said:


> What would you say tube rolling changes are on the LP....minor or pretty significant?


Depends on the cans. 

Utopia improves from stock tubes to Gold Lions, more from Amperex, and even a bit more from NOS Siemens. Ether 2 didn’t really change that much until I tried them with the Siemens, which really expanded their headstage. HEKv2 are just a bit fuller w/ Siemens. Auteur are different w/ various tubes, but pretty good w/ all — best of any cans w stock tubes. For me, Empyrean _*needed*_ the Brimar CV-2492 and the difference is pretty significant. Tube rolling seems to make very little difference to RAD-0 so far, but I haven’t really tested them exhaustively.

HD-6XX really sing from the Siemens CCa tubes. Biggest improvement for any cans w/ any LP/tube pairings.


----------



## mixman

LCMusicLover said:


> Depends on the cans.
> 
> Utopia improves from stock tubes to Gold Lions, more from Amperex, and even a bit more from NOS Siemens. Ether 2 didn’t really change that much until I tried them with the Siemens, which really expanded their headstage. HEKv2 are just a bit fuller w/ Siemens. Auteur are different w/ various tubes, but pretty good w/ all — best of any cans w stock tubes. For me, Empyrean _*needed*_ the Brimar CV-2492 and the difference is pretty significant. Tube rolling seems to make very little difference to RAD-0 so far, but I haven’t really tested them exhaustively.
> 
> HD-6XX really sing from the Siemens CCa tubes. Biggest improvement for any cans w/ any LP/tube pairings.


Thanks for your input. I may just revisit this since I guess I need to do more tube rolling to customize the sound.


----------



## TK16

mixman said:


> Thanks for your input. I may just revisit this since I guess I need to do more tube rolling to customize the sound.


Given the price of the LP now I personally would recommend a similar priced MJ2 by Schiit. $50 more gets you a low/high gain switch, can be used as a pre amp, compatible with more variants that use an adapter. More room to take out tubes/socket savers/adapters and tubes play more of a role in the sound signature vs the LP. I have both currently.


----------



## mixman

TK16 said:


> Given the price of the LP now I personally would recommend a similar priced MJ2 by Schiit. $50 more gets you a low/high gain switch, can be used as a pre amp, compatible with more variants that use an adapter. More room to take out tubes/socket savers/adapters and tubes play more of a role in the sound signature vs the LP. I have both currently.


Ah, right on time, I was also thinking of the MJ2, but there are so few comparisons and reviews on the MJ2 that I cannot get a good sense of how it sounds next to the LP.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Given the price of the LP now I personally would recommend a similar priced MJ2 by Schiit. $50 more gets you a low/high gain switch, can be used as a pre amp, compatible with more variants that use an adapter. More room to take out tubes/socket savers/adapters and tubes play more of a role in the sound signature vs the LP. I have both currently.


Good advice if you have easy to drive cans or a wide variety!  The LP is magic with hard to drive cans, but the gain is too much for most.


----------



## mixman

Wes S said:


> Good advice if you have easy to drive cans or a wide variety!  The LP is magic with hard to drive cans, but the gain is too much for most.


No problem with gain as that's what my RME is for.


----------



## TK16

mixman said:


> Ah, right on time, I was also thinking of the MJ2, but there are so few comparisons and reviews on the MJ2 that I cannot get a good sense of how it sounds next to the LP.


I'd say the LP is a tad warmer than the LP with the same tubes but the MJ2 is faster but the LP is no slouch in that department. I'd chose the MJ2 if I had to have just 1 amp, for the reasons I stated earlier. The MJ2 also has more power than the LP but the LP is no slouch in that department either.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Wes S said:


> Good advice if you have easy to drive cans or a wide variety!  The LP is magic with hard to drive cans, but the gain is too much for most.





mixman said:


> No problem with gain as that's what my RME is for.


Also no problem if you have a preamp 

I was seriously looking for an MJ-2 prior to purchasing my LP. At only $50 more I probably would have gone the other way. But I was able to get the LP for $600 (eBay 15% off promotion) when the list price was $699. So $250 less made it an easy call, especially since I already had a balanced pre-amp.


----------



## Schwibbles

TK16 said:


> I'd say the LP is a tad warmer than the LP with the same tubes but the MJ2 is faster but the LP is no slouch in that department. I'd chose the MJ2 if I had to have just 1 amp, for the reasons I stated earlier. The MJ2 also has more power than the LP but the LP is no slouch in that department either.


The biggest reason I went with the LP over the MJ2 is the form factor. The MJ2 is massive in comparison; almost 2 LPs wide.
For people interested in buying one of the two, this could be a deal breaker, as it was for me. I just don't have the room for a 16" wide headphone amp.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Schwibbles said:


> The biggest reason I went with the LP over the MJ2 is the form factor. The MJ2 is massive in comparison; almost 2 LPs wide.
> For people interested in buying one of the two, this could be a deal breaker, as it was for me. I just don't have the room for a 16" wide headphone amp.


Yes, probably as much a deal breaker for some as the gain thing is for others.

Really, really, really wish adjustable gain had made it into the final product — it was mentioned in the original product announcement.

I wonder if it was a cost issue, a sound quality issue or a form factor issue (no room)? I’m guessing cost.


----------



## knivek (Aug 29, 2019)

TK16 said:


> I'd say the LP is a tad warmer than the LP with the same tubes but the MJ2 is faster but the LP is no slouch in that department. I'd chose the MJ2 if I had to have just 1 amp, for the reasons I stated earlier. The MJ2 also has more power than the LP but the LP is no slouch in that department either.



So the LP is warmer than the MJ2?  Also... my AFC’s are a 13ohm impedance. Have read people pair AFC’s with them but not much feedback on AFC and MJ2’s


----------



## TK16 (Aug 29, 2019)

knivek said:


> So the LP is warmer than the MJ2?


Tad is not much but noticable listening to both. It is not a night and day type difference in the sound.

Edit.
I have an AFO and both amps are easily up to the task powering an AFO/AFC.


----------



## LCMusicLover

knivek said:


> So the LP is warmer than the MJ2?  Also... my AFC’s are a 13ohm impedance. Have read people pair AFC’s with them but not much feedback on AFC and MJ2’s


Both amps, MJ2 & LP have very low output impedance, so neither should have any _technical_ issues driving AFC. That said, I don’t have any experience w/ AFC. E2 & EFO both sound very good from my LP.


----------



## nwavesailor

Schwibbles said:


> The biggest reason I went with the LP over the MJ2 is the form factor. The MJ2 is massive in comparison; almost 2 LPs wide.
> For people interested in buying one of the two, this could be a deal breaker, as it was for me. I just don't have the room for a 16" wide headphone amp.



I am also in this camp. I did not have the space for the MJ2 so went tor the LP and have been happy with many tube options that sound great!

Getting a new SS amp tomorrow (HeadAmp GS-X mini) so we'll see how that goes and how much I use the LP or mini.


----------



## Schwibbles (Aug 30, 2019)

nwavesailor said:


> I am also in this camp. I did not have the space for the MJ2 so went tor the LP and have been happy with many tube options that sound great!
> 
> Getting a new SS amp tomorrow (HeadAmp GS-X mini) so we'll see how that goes and how much I use the LP or mini.


I thought about going that route as well. I just couldn't justify the price of a new mini since I decided to go back to college full time. I ended up finding a used Taurus MKII instead.
Still hoping to get a chance to hear a final production mini at some point though. The one at CanJam RMAF last year wasn't fully finished.

Shameless plug...
That being said, I'm selling my Platinum and all the tubes I have for it. See link in my signature.
If anyone is interested in Brimar CV2492 (KB/AD) or Genalex Gold Lions, I have some nice ones available.


----------



## mixman

What amps would you consider as the next step up from the LP........Tube, Hybrid or SS?


----------



## Zachik

nwavesailor said:


> Getting a new SS amp tomorrow (HeadAmp GS-X mini) so we'll see how that goes and how much I use the LP or mini.


I have been eyeing the GS-X mini since I auditioned it at RMAF 2018...  I own the Gilmore Lite MK2, and this one is a VERY nice upgrade!
You cannot get much better if you want Solid State, IMHO.
Also, and again that is my personal opinion, the GS-X mini is better than the older / bigger brother (the GS-X Mk2).


----------



## LCMusicLover (Aug 30, 2019)

mixman said:


> What amps would you consider as the next step up from the LP........Tube, Hybrid or SS?


DSHA-3F ... currently patiently waiting for its arrival.

I started to write a post about how there are upgrades based on all three: SS, tube or hybrid. Instead, I pimped my newest toy.

I will say that asking about _*the*_ next step up is pretty unrealistic.

It’s like asking “Should my next step up from (insert favorite mid-fi can) be planar or dynamic?” The answer to that is “Yes ... unless you go with an e-stat.”


----------



## fortunate son (Oct 10, 2019)

Headphone recommendation for LP: Verum 1 with Canare L4E6S or LQI silver cable. Waited 10 weeks for the Verum 1, but well worth it.


----------



## fortunate son (Sep 4, 2019)

chimney189 said:


> Has anyone been able to compare the LP to the WA6 (non-SE)?


I own both a LP and a WA6 and use both amps every day. I also own a 6SE.

It depends on the headphones used. For me the all tube WA6 has an enthralling sound that none of the hybrid amps I have tried can equal . 

Make sure that any used WA6 you are considering buying has the psuedo dual power supply feature which early production units of the WA6 did not have.

I use Telefunken ECC82 tubes with adapters made by head-fi.org member Deyan with the WA6 and 6SE which I think sound better than the 6 series driver tubes Woo recommends. Yet, the 6DR7 tubes are also very good with the WA6 or 6SE if you don't want to mess with adapters.

As far as bass impact, that too is headphone dependent. The WA6 can pack a wallop with certain headphones (for example, Sony MDR V6) but has less bass impact than the LP with some harder to drive headphones that I use. It comes down to synergy.

I tend to use the Woo more for music and the LP more for movies and casual listening just to save running time on the rare rectifier tubes I have  in my Woo.

The WA6 is a great amp but you might want to save up a bit more and buy a used WA6SE 1st generation amp for the extra power and gain that the SE has. 

Some Woo amp lovers say the WA6 is a little better sounding within its power limitations than the SE, but I like both the regular 6 and the SE. It is hard to choose a favorite. They sound similar but they do not sound the same. When I need the extra power, I use the SE.

I do not recommend the 2nd generation WA6 or WA6SE because the 13 series driver tubes used by the 2nd generation amps seem to be harder to find than the 1st generation's 6 series driver tubes.

You can also use the WA6 and WA6SE with 6SN7 or 7N7 driver tubes with adapters made by Deyan if you want to go that route.


----------



## TK16

fortunate son said:


> +1 on Telefunken ECC82 with adapters.
> 
> Also, Valvo ECC82 O getter with adapters.
> 
> Headphone recommendation for LP: Verum 1 with Canare L4E6S or LQI silver cable. Waited 8 weeks for the Verum 1, but well worth it.


The ECC82 line of tubes are my favorites, even cheap $15-20 RCA clear tops are better than most of the 6DJ8/6922 I have heard. I got a top 15 list in my profile if you want to take a look. ECC81/6201/6CC41 and GEC A2900 are a no go due to the high gain on the LP and the high multiplication factor of these tubes.


----------



## knivek

Oh TK I wish you shipped to Canada


----------



## TK16

knivek said:


> Oh TK I wish you shipped to Canada


I occasionally make exceptions to the USA only to people in North America only.  PM me if your interested.


----------



## skyline315

Matching DAC.  Is there a separate thread on this?

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=38966

Can't wait to hear the pairing.  @runeight , will there be any units released early for review?


----------



## Rattle

skyline315 said:


> Matching DAC.  Is there a separate thread on this?
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=38966
> 
> Can't wait to hear the pairing.  @runeight , will there be any units released early for review?



Oh nice, can't wait for more details on this. Maybe a nice monoprice ebay store purchase with a 15% off coupon again. I'd bite.


----------



## fortunate son (Sep 13, 2019)

If interested, a new thread has been created for Cavalli's latest headphone amp with internal dac design which is solid state and has two gain settings and is called the Liquid Gold X with a price of $999.99.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monoprice-monolith-liquid-gold-x.914828/

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=304&cp_id=30405&cs_id=3040505&p_id=38967&seq=1&format=2&res=1

"The Liquid Gold X is a smaller version of Cavalli Audio’s most popular amp, the Liquid Gold. It is a fully balanced, differential front-end, solid state amplifier. In addition to the great analog sound of the original Liquid Gold, this amplifier includes a built-in fully balanced DAC section based on the AKM 4493 DAC. It has two gain settings and features USB, Coaxial, and optical digital inputs, as well as balanced and unbalanced analog inputs. The Liquid Gold also introduces our new MCU based products with computerized control of all the amp features including turn on sequencing and DC offset detection, giving you nearly everything you need in a single, compact package. "


----------



## Cho Worsh (Sep 13, 2019)

fortunate son said:


> If interested, a new thread has been created for Cavalli's latest headphone amp with internal dac design which is solid state and has two gain settings and is called the Liquid Gold X with a price of $999.99.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monoprice-monolith-liquid-gold-x.914828/
> 
> ...



Having heard and loved the sound of the original Liquid Gold, I'm definitely going to try one of these, even though I probably will not use the dac.


----------



## runeight

Hello everyone. I made this informational post elsewhere, but now that we a thread here.....

This may answer questions that have been asked or may be asked.

1. The LAuX is exactly the original LAu, but obviously reduced to SMD sized components and lower power.
2. The power output is identical to the Platinum.
3. It uses the same DC power control as the LP. Don't use linear supplies as they may be destructive.
4. The analog inputs are the same as the LP - RCA and Bal. Obviously the additional input selection is the DAC.
5. The DAC doesn't have outputs to the external world.
6. The DAC selector button on the front cycles among the usual suspects, USB, COAX, OPTICAL.
7. You can completely ignore the DAC if you wish, but you might choose not to.
8. The DAC is not two Spark DACS put together, but a fully balanced design specifically for the LAuX.
9. As the announcement noted, this amp has an MCU on board. While this doesn't show much externally,
internally it does a better job of controlling the amp functions while monitoring its internal operational state.
10. For anyone who might be in EU, the MCU also incorporates the required feature of powering down
after 4 hours of no in put signal.
11. The board design is mine.
12. All amp electronic component specs are mine and cannot be changed without my permission.
13. Interface components are mutually agreed upon.
I'll be happy to answer other questions, if I can. Some I may have to defer.


----------



## CreditingKarma

runeight said:


> Hello everyone. I made this informational post elsewhere, but now that we a thread here.....
> 
> This may answer questions that have been asked or may be asked.
> 
> ...



Where would this sit in regards to the liquid platinum? I am assuming that the liquid platinum is still the totl amp in the Cavalli monoprice family.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

runeight said:


> Hello everyone. I made this informational post elsewhere, but now that we a thread here.....
> 
> This may answer questions that have been asked or may be asked.
> 
> ...



* starts a LAu piggy bank * 

Thanks @runeight


----------



## Odin412

runeight said:


> Hello everyone. I made this informational post elsewhere, but now that we a thread here.....
> 
> This may answer questions that have been asked or may be asked.
> 
> ...



Excellent! I've lusted after the Liquid Gold since I first heard it, and it looks like I will now have the chance to own one!


----------



## Zachik

Sigh... I do NOT need yet another amp, but hard to pass on a @runeight creation...


----------



## Zachik

runeight said:


> Hello everyone. I made this informational post elsewhere, but now that we a thread here.....
> 
> This may answer questions that have been asked or may be asked.
> 
> ...


Alex - I own (and WILL keep) the LP. 
Also, I saw the new Monoprice balanced DAC coming (in same form factor)... 
My question: Is there ANY advantage feeding the LP from a balanced DAC? Unfortunately, the new LAuX does not have Balanced out from the DAC (what a shame!), and I have a decent DAC, so not eager to buy the new Cavalli DAC...


----------



## skyline315 (Sep 13, 2019)

This is confusing since some of us are talking about the DAC only box designed to match the LP and others are talking about the new Liquid Gold amp with a DAC built in.

@runeight I appreciate the info on the Gold, but  is there any info you can share on the DAC-only box I linked to above?


----------



## LCMusicLover

runeight said:


> Hello everyone. I made this informational post elsewhere, but now that we a thread here.....
> 
> This may answer questions that have been asked or may be asked.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the information.

No remote I assume, since it isn't mentioned anywhere.

Please, can you tell us the values for the switchable gain?


----------



## runeight

Sorry about any confusion. This just seemed like a good place to put the info. There is, indeed, a Platinum DAC coming.

Gain is 2X/6X. No remote.

AND, not trying to get anyone to jump from their LP to LAuX. 

It's simply that when a new amp like this comes out there are questions and I thought to answer them ahead of time if I could.


----------



## CreditingKarma

runeight said:


> Sorry about any confusion. This just seemed like a good place to put the info. There is, indeed, a Platinum DAC coming.
> 
> Gain is 2X/6X. No remote.
> 
> ...




Is the liquid gold an improvement over the liquid platinum?


----------



## Inoculator

@runeight I have been a big fan of the Liquid Platinum and am pretty excited that your relationship with Monoprice is continuing. 

Not sure if you can confirm...but I shouldn't be holding my breath for a Liquid Gold without DAC should I? Would love to have this stacked with my Liquid Platinum to have a SS option, but really have no need for the DAC. Probably not possible with the current chassis, but the perfect version of the Liquid Gold for me would be no DAC but include XLR outs.


----------



## Wes S

Inoculator said:


> @runeight I have been a big fan of the Liquid Platinum and am pretty excited that your relationship with Monoprice is continuing.
> 
> Not sure if you can confirm...but I shouldn't be holding my breath for a Liquid Gold without DAC should I? Would love to have this stacked with my Liquid Platinum to have a SS option, but really have no need for the DAC. Probably not possible with the current chassis, but the perfect version of the Liquid Gold for me would be no DAC but include XLR outs.


Me too!


----------



## Rattle

Really can't wait for more info and full specs for LP DAC !


----------



## Zachik

runeight said:


> AND, not trying to get anyone to jump from their LP to LAuX.


*Alex - any advantage in feeding the LP through balanced input?*
I have a good SE DAC... 
...and no worries about selling my LP. I am seriously considering buying the LAuX in addition!


----------



## Wes S (Sep 15, 2019)

Never mind, I read that wrong.  Corrected.  I see there is a separate dac, coming for the LP.  Cool stuff, @runeight!  Thanks for continuing to bring us cool new gear!


----------



## Wes S

Just fired up my LP!  Happy Sunday, and Happy Listening!


----------



## Wes S

Anyone looking for some killer tubes, and my current fav?  The Holland made Bugle Boy D Getters, from late 50's.

This seller is legit -
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/113881493701


----------



## Inoculator

I got a reminder today of just how much gain this amp has, and how necessary it is to have some sort of pre or volume control in front of your Liquid Platinum to deal with it.

My pre-amp is off being repaired, so I am running a Gungnir Multibit via XLR straight into the Liquid Platinum. Powering my Aeolus via the XLR port I can't even get to 9 o'clock on the volume dial without it being deafening. If you say the dial starts at 7 o'clock, best case I can get to about 8 o'clock and still have it be comfortable. 

Luckily there is no channel imbalance at this part of the dial, so it is not a huge issue. Just figured I would give folks considering this amp another reminder that they need something in their chain for volume control, especially if they are running everything balanced.


----------



## kumar402

Inoculator said:


> I got a reminder today of just how much gain this amp has, and how necessary it is to have some sort of pre or volume control in front of your Liquid Platinum to deal with it.
> 
> My pre-amp is off being repaired, so I am running a Gungnir Multibit via XLR straight into the Liquid Platinum. Powering my Aeolus via the XLR port I can't even get to 9 o'clock on the volume dial without it being deafening. If you say the dial starts at 7 o'clock, best case I can get to about 8 o'clock and still have it be comfortable.
> 
> Luckily there is no channel imbalance at this part of the dial, so it is not a huge issue. Just figured I would give folks considering this amp another reminder that they need something in their chain for volume control, especially if they are running everything balanced.


That’s true....since I don’t have any balanced preamp so I have been using SE input out of my Gungnir Multibit thru Schitt Sys at 2PM
BTW which preamp do you use?


----------



## Inoculator

kumar402 said:


> That’s true....since I don’t have any balanced preamp so I have been using SE input out of my Gungnir Multibit thru Schitt Sys at 2PM
> BTW which preamp do you use?



I use the Pro-ject Pre Box RS, I have been a big fan of it for the 6 months I have had it. Really transparent and neutral despite having tubes. Black background, and just seems to create better soundstage and dynamics with everything I feed through it. Only reason it is in for repair is that included power supply was humming and company I bought it from wanted to check out the whole unit before replacing just to be 100% sure. Has a linear power supply option I may just upgrade to if issue persists.

All that being said, I was between the Schiit Freya and the Pro-ject Pre Box RS. That was before Schiit updated the Freya so you could run SS or pass-through without having the tubes on. I think with the new revisions/Freya+, I would have considered going that route.


----------



## Rattle

I have an original schiit saga I put in the loop but honestly with HD6xx I don't need anything in the loop for volume control. I can see if you have something that's not 300ohm and ultra sensitive. Most of the stuff I listen to us DR10 or higher or vinyl so that helps. I wouldn't mind putting a dac with volume control with the LP but the only one affordable that even intereets me is the D70


----------



## Marutks (Nov 4, 2019)

Is Monoprice Liquid Platinum good fit for ZMF Verite cans?   with upgraded tubes?

 Does LP power brick work in the UK?


----------



## Phantaminum

Marutks said:


> Is Monoprice Liquid Platinum good fit for ZMF Verite cans?   with upgraded tubes?
> 
> Does LP power brick work in the UK?



Personally, I didn’t like the Verite and LP combo. Wasn’t bad per se but felt there are better amps in that price range with more synergy. Thought it was to laid back and missing macrodynamics. Other people do like this combo.


----------



## Hansotek

Marutks said:


> Is Monoprice Liquid Platinum good fit for ZMF Verite cans?   with upgraded tubes?
> 
> Does LP power brick work in the UK?



I love this combo, personally. I feel like the midrange presentations are very complimentary. I do like it better with some upgraded tubes and felt there was a modest improvement to the dynamics by replacing the stock power cable that runs to the brick.

The power brick is universal.


----------



## Inoculator

Hansotek said:


> I love this combo, personally. I feel like the midrange presentations are very complimentary. I do like it better with some upgraded tubes and felt there was a modest improvement to the dynamics by replacing the stock power cable that runs to the brick.
> 
> The power brick is universal.



Power cable recommendation? Hadn't even thought about the ability to replace that. Slowing upgrading my power cables and moving to linear power supplies where possible, so curious what you went with.


----------



## Hansotek

Inoculator said:


> Power cable recommendation? Hadn't even thought about the ability to replace that. Slowing upgrading my power cables and moving to linear power supplies where possible, so curious what you went with.



I grabbed a used Audioquest NRG-2.


----------



## Zachik

Hansotek said:


> I grabbed a used Audioquest NRG-2.


How does it compare to WireWorld power cables?


----------



## Hansotek

Zachik said:


> How does it compare to WireWorld power cables?



I haven’t tried their 2-prong power cables, but overall, I’ve found WireWorld cables make a larger order-of-magnitude improvement, and comparing 3-prong cables WW was a bigger improvement.


----------



## Zachik

Hansotek said:


> I haven’t tried their 2-prong power cables, but overall, I’ve found WireWorld cables make a larger order-of-magnitude improvement, and comparing 3-prong cables WW was a bigger improvement.


Thanks Dave - totally missed the 2 vs. 3 prong cable...  <embarrassed>


----------



## sahmen

Hansotek said:


> I haven’t tried their 2-prong power cables, but overall, I’ve found WireWorld cables make a larger order-of-magnitude improvement, and comparing 3-prong cables WW was a bigger improvement.



Hi Dave: I have a different question. Do you know whether there are reviews of the upcoming Liquid Gold X out there in the wild yet? To be perfectly candid, this is also another way of asking whether you're planning a review of the unit as you did for the platinum and the Spark.

I would really like to know how different the Gold X sounds from te platinum so that I can make an informed decision as to whether to plan an early purchase of the x or just hold on to my LP for more further use.;;


----------



## vault108

I want to know more about Monoprice new Liquid Platinum with AKM 4499 than the new Liquid Gold X with AKM 4493. Pairing the new LP with their THX 887 is cheaper than a new Liquid Gold X.


----------



## Rattle

My LP will go nowhere and I can't afford the amp but I'd like to stack that new LP dac with my amp. Either that or bifrost 2 ....


----------



## Inoculator

Heads up for those in the market for the LP. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Open-Box-M...dphone-Amplifier-by-Alex-Cavalli/233285191086

Can use coupon code JUMBO20 to get an additional $100 off, bringing the price to $522.65 for this open box.


----------



## Wes S

Inoculator said:


> Heads up for those in the market for the LP. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Open-Box-M...dphone-Amplifier-by-Alex-Cavalli/233285191086
> 
> Can use coupon code JUMBO20 to get an additional $100 off, bringing the price to $522.65 for this open box.


Killer amp and a killer price!


----------



## Hansotek

sahmen said:


> Hi Dave: I have a different question. Do you know whether there are reviews of the upcoming Liquid Gold X out there in the wild yet? To be perfectly candid, this is also another way of asking whether you're planning a review of the unit as you did for the platinum and the Spark.
> 
> I would really like to know how different the Gold X sounds from te platinum so that I can make an informed decision as to whether to plan an early purchase of the x or just hold on to my LP for more further use.;;



I'd love to review it. I need to catch up with @runeight


----------



## Wes S

Hansotek said:


> I'd love to review it. I need to catch up with @runeight


I would love to read your review!


----------



## gordec

I just bought a LP.  Many recommend using it with a preamp. Any issues with double amping? I temporary left the headphone game. I miss it so I bought a pair of HD800. I don't have a DAC yet only a Naim Uniti Atom which is driving speakers. The Atom has preamp outputs though.


----------



## Inoculator

gordec said:


> I just bought a LP.  Many recommend using it with a preamp. Any issues with double amping? I temporary left the headphone game. I miss it so I bought a pair of HD800. I don't have a DAC yet only a Naim Uniti Atom which is driving speakers. The Atom has preamp outputs though.



I haven't had any problem setting my LP to about 50% on the dial and controlling the volume via my preamp, that setup should work great for you as long as the preamp outputs on the Atom are not fixed.


----------



## gordec

Inoculator said:


> I haven't had any problem setting my LP to about 50% on the dial and controlling the volume via my preamp, that setup should work great for you as long as the preamp outputs on the Atom are not fixed.



Cool. I'm going to try it first. Naim never release specs on the preamp section. Most use it with poweramps for speakers, but I assume it's not a fixed preamp.


----------



## Tacanacy

Inoculator said:


> Heads up for those in the market for the LP. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Open-Box-M...dphone-Amplifier-by-Alex-Cavalli/233285191086
> 
> Can use coupon code JUMBO20 to get an additional $100 off, bringing the price to $522.65 for this open box.



Before anyone jumps on this, you should know that the warranty is only for 90 days.


----------



## lukeap69

Tacanacy said:


> Before anyone jumps on this, you should know that the warranty is only for 90 days.


Thanks for pointing this out. Though it is open box, warranty should be the same as the regular one.


----------



## Tacanacy

lukeap69 said:


> Thanks for pointing this out. Though it is open box, warranty should be the same as the regular one.



I asked if it had the same 5-year warranty, and they told me it was 90 days. That's a hard pass for me.


----------



## Wes S (Nov 18, 2019)

To All and @runeight

This past weekend while jamming with my LP, I experienced a power surge, and I have a concern.  Does this amp have some kind of protection, from surges and power outages?  I have read that you are never supposed to turn off the external power supply, while the power button is engaged in the on position, and I have been following this procedure.  However, the power went out while the unit was on, and then the power came back on, before I could turn off the amp, and now I am hoping that it did not do any damage?  Everything seems to be working normal, but I just am curious about this scenario?  I am using a Furman power conditioner, for surge protection, but not sure that is enough?  Thanks for your time!

Wes


----------



## Wes S (Nov 19, 2019)

@Run


Wes S said:


> To All and @runeight
> 
> This past weekend while jamming with my LP, I experienced a power surge, and I have a concern.  Does this amp have some kind of protection, from surges and power outages?  I have read that you are never supposed to turn off the external power supply, while the power button is engaged in the on position, and I have been following this procedure.  However, the power went out while the unit was on, and then the power came back on, before I could turn off the amp, and now I am hoping that it did not do any damage?  Everything seems to be working normal, but I just am curious about this scenario?  I am using a Furman power conditioner, for surge protection, but not sure that is enough?  Thanks for your time!
> 
> Wes


Hmm. . .seems no one has any thoughts on this?  Well, I went straight to one of the best, when it comes to these issues, and atomicbob suggested I put one of these in the chain - Cyberpower cp1000pfclcd.  I really love my LP, and don't want to have to worry about it dying from a power outage or surge while using it, and the Cyberpower UPS, sounds like just the ticket, and did not cost an arm and a leg.  I am getting it today, and will report back, after some listening time.


----------



## Wes S

Wes S said:


> @Run
> 
> Hmm. . .seems no one has any thoughts on this?  Well, I went straight to one of the best, when it comes to these issues, and atomicbob suggested I put one of these in the chain - Cyberpower cp1000pfclcd.  I really love my LP, and don't want to have to worry about it dying from a power outage or surge while using it, and the Cyberpower UPS, sounds like just the ticket, and did not cost an arm and a leg.  I am getting it today, and will report back, after some listening time.


I am back and happy to report that the Cyberpower is doing the trick.  I can't hear any difference, from being plugged into my Furman, and I have the added protection of the UPS, so this is a win.  Now, I can listen with my LP, and not worry about it dying from a power interruption.   I also, hooked up my Gungnir Multibit to the UPS, and it is nice knowing it is being fed a steady stream of 120v, and is protected as well.  Since I leave the DAC on 24/7, it is nice not worry about that as well.  The Cyberpower, is quite popular in other threads, and is a great addition, if you plan to keep your LP running perfect for a long time.  I absolutely love my LP, and the mids are to die for, and I am so happy it is protected, and now I can get back to the music.  

Happy listening fellow LP fans!

Wes


----------



## jeanft

Do I need to run XLR in/ cables to be able  to listen to balanced headphones?
Dac is not balanced.


----------



## Odin412

jeanft said:


> Do I need to run XLR in/ cables to be able  to listen to balanced headphones?
> Dac is not balanced.



No, you can use a single-ended DAC. The amp will convert from single-ended input to balanced output. I use a single-ended Bifrost Multibit DAC to drive my LCD-2 via a balanced cable.


----------



## JohnIgel

Unfortunately, after ten months I experienced a problem with my LP.  On power up the red light stayed on, never changing to white. No sound out of any output. 
The good part is that Monoprice provided excellent support and I RMA'd it for a new unit in less than a week!
During the 'Oh crap' period I bought a Schiit Mjolnir just in case!


----------



## JohnIgel

I have now had a chance to directly compare the Liquid Platinum with the Mjolnir and let me just say that both amps are really good.
Each amp has it's particular qualities with the LP being somewhat more musical and laid-back, while the MJ is very resolved and detailed.
I used the same set of Brimar E88CC tubes to compare the amps.
For SE testing I used DT 1770 cans and for balanced output I used the Fostex TH900mk2 headphones.
I did not notice much difference between the SE and Balanced outputs in regards to the overall sound characteristics of either unit.

The LP is a little darker with great overall tonality. It has slightly more recessed mids. Full bass. Good impact. Very musical!

The MJ is perhaps a smidge brighter with slightly sharper details. It's a little more analytical than the LP, but it also has a very refined sound. It's a detail monster. Piano is absolutely sublime. 

Now that I have experienced both, I prefer the sound of the Mjolnir over the LP, but only by a small margin. I think the Mjolnir and the Yggdrasil make a great pairing.


----------



## bryceu

JohnIgel said:


> I have now had a chance to directly compare the Liquid Platinum with the Mjolnir and let me just say that both amps are really good.
> Each amp has it's particular qualities with the LP being somewhat more musical and laid-back, while the MJ is very resolved and detailed.
> I used the same set of Brimar E88CC tubes to compare the amps.
> For SE testing I used DT 1770 cans and for balanced output I used the Fostex TH900mk2 headphones.
> ...



I have both the LP and the Mj2 and have been using both with my Verite for the past month. I find they are both very comparable in terms of performance, yet with slightly different styles.
Both offer great stage depth and imaging, resolution, and musicality.
The Mj2 has the most impressive dynamics of the two.
The Mj2 has more versatility with XLR pre-out, LISST option, and selectable gain.
Both fall slightly behind THX 887 in detail/sharpness.


----------



## JohnIgel

bryceu said:


> I have both the LP and the Mj2 and have been using both with my Verite for the past month. I find they are both very comparable in terms of performance, yet with slightly different styles.
> Both offer great stage depth and imaging, resolution, and musicality.
> The Mj2 has the most impressive dynamics of the two.
> The Mj2 has more versatility with XLR pre-out, LISST option, and selectable gain.
> Both fall slightly behind THX 887 in detail/sharpness.



Nice, I agree that both units are comparable with the Mj2 being somewhat more resolving. I love the musicality of both units. Does the THX887 have the same musicality, depth and texture or does it have more of a solid state sound?


----------



## bryceu

JohnIgel said:


> Nice, I agree that both units are comparable with the Mj2 being somewhat more resolving. I love the musicality of both units. Does the THX887 have the same musicality, depth and texture or does it have more of a solid state sound?


THX887 = Slightly more width and overall bigger stage, but it does this in an artificially sounding way. Less musicality as it can be a bit dry sometimes, especially in the mids. Texture it delivers differently than the mj2 and LP, more audible detail, yet less organic quality. 
Definitely sounds like solid state. Would describe as lean, clean, and linear.


----------



## mixman

bryceu said:


> THX887 = Slightly more width and overall bigger stage, but it does this in an artificially sounding way. Less musicality as it can be a bit dry sometimes, especially in the mids. Texture it delivers differently than the mj2 and LP, more audible detail, yet less organic quality.
> Definitely sounds like solid state. Would describe as lean, clean, and linear.


I had felt the same about the THX 789 vs the LP. I thought it was no better and returned it. Now though you are saying the THX is also better than the MJ2? Well in that case I better concentrate on the next level up........V281, GSX Mini, WA22 or Pendant.


----------



## Ham Sandwich

mixman said:


> I had felt the same about the THX 789 vs the LP. I thought it was no better and returned it. Now though you are saying the THX is also better than the MJ2? Well in that case I better concentrate on the next level up........V281, GSX Mini, WA22 or Pendant.



Or you could concentrate on finding DACs with better synergy with the amps you are trying. You can keep chasing for the next level up in amps and never find it because you're ignoring DAC synergy. Meanwhile you've churned through amps that would be exceptional if you'd only explored finding DACs that have better synergy.

The RME ADI-2 and iFi DACs are not DACs I consider to have good synergy with the better Cavalli amps. Explore. For me the Cavalli Liquid Platinum + Schiit multibit + Audeze LCD-2 or better is excellent system synergy. Change the DAC and it is very easy to lose that synergy. There are, of course, other DACs that will have great synergy with the Cavalli amps. The challenge is in finding them.


----------



## Wes S

Ham Sandwich said:


> Or you could concentrate on finding DACs with better synergy with the amps you are trying. You can keep chasing for the next level up in amps and never find it because you're ignoring DAC synergy. Meanwhile you've churned through amps that would be exceptional if you'd only explored finding DACs that have better synergy.
> 
> The RME ADI-2 and iFi DACs are not DACs I consider to have good synergy with the better Cavalli amps. Explore. For me the Cavalli Liquid Platinum + Schiit multibit + Audeze LCD-2 or better is excellent system synergy. Change the DAC and it is very easy to lose that synergy. There are, of course, other DACs that will have great synergy with the Cavalli amps. The challenge is in finding them.


Well said.


----------



## mixman

Ham Sandwich said:


> Or you could concentrate on finding DACs with better synergy with the amps you are trying. You can keep chasing for the next level up in amps and never find it because you're ignoring DAC synergy. Meanwhile you've churned through amps that would be exceptional if you'd only explored finding DACs that have better synergy.
> 
> The RME ADI-2 and iFi DACs are not DACs I consider to have good synergy with the better Cavalli amps. Explore. For me the Cavalli Liquid Platinum + Schiit multibit + Audeze LCD-2 or better is excellent system synergy. Change the DAC and it is very easy to lose that synergy. There are, of course, other DACs that will have great synergy with the Cavalli amps. The challenge is in finding them.


I disagree. A better DAC is a better DAC period, meaning it will more accurately portray the source information. Now if you are telling me to get a better DAC, then yes the LP will sound better.....but so will the THX when paired with that better DAC. One may not like the tonal balance or synergy as you call it of that pairing but, I am not after a different "synergy" here. I am after accurate detail and for me the LP doesn't have it on the same level as the THX.


----------



## Ham Sandwich

mixman said:


> I disagree. A better DAC is a better DAC period, meaning it will more accurately portray the source information. Now if you are telling me to get a better DAC, then yes the LP will sound better.....but so will the THX when paired with that better DAC. One may not like the tonal balance or synergy as you call it of that pairing but, I am not after a different "synergy" here. I am after accurate detail and for me the LP doesn't have it on the same level as the THX.



Then good luck in your quest. You're going to churn through more amps and more money without finding nirvana. Some people just don't want advice. You're a reason I rarely post at Head-fi. I had a ton of posts here before head-fi switched forum software. Head-fi was better back then.

I've been doing Cavalli amps for over a decade. And have optimized my system around the sound of Cavalli amps. I have some experience in what pairs well with Cavalli amps and what doesn't. I own a Fire, Glass, and Platinum, and Carbon, and all the Massdrop Cavalli amps and will be buying the Monoprice Liquid Gold X. My one regret is that I didn't buy a Crimson. I've been around people who have built the Cavalli DIY amps and have been able to listen to some of those amps.

When I got interested in the Liquid Fire I got some good advice from those who owned it. They all said I was going to need to try several different DACs to find one that works well. All of those people had gone through several different DACs to find something that had the right synergy for their preferences with the Liquid Fire. I got to hear the Liquid Fire at meets with various DACs. Some of those setups had the synergy I was after, some did not. All of those were expensive DACs. The best setup that I liked back then was with a Berkeley Audio Alpha DAC Series 2. That was before Schiit released the Yggdrasil. Now that Schiit has the Yggdrasil and Gungnir MB, I like the Schiit multibit DACs better. And they're much less expensive than the Berkeley. But even with all that advice that I got, and advice that I took to heart, I still ended up churning through several expensive DACs on the way to discovering what I personally liked and found synergy with for the Cavalli amps.

The better Cavalli amps are fussy about source because the amps are transparent to the source. Fussy about DAC sound qualities and synergy. That's not just true for Cavalli amps, but other summit-fi level amps as well. To reach summit-fi you need to pair the sound qualities of the amp with the sound qualities of the DAC. And find synergy. If you expect to throw any "good" DAC with any "good" amp and find nirvana you're in for disappointment and constant churn of expensive gear. That's advice from someone who has been around the head-fi block a few times. 

Since you claim to be after accurate detail I would suggest a HeadAmp GS-X and an Oppo and HD800 headphones. HeadAmp used that setup to demo their gear at a meet I attended. I think that's the system you would like and deserve. It very much isn't a Cavalli style of sound.

For everyone else. My suggested system for Cavalli Liquid Platinum synergy would be: Cavalli Liquid Platinum amp, as much Schiit multibit as you can afford, and an Audeze LCD-2 Classic or one of the better Audeze LCD series headphones. The synergy with the better Cavalli amps (Fire, Crimson, Glass, Platinum, and probably the Gold X) and the Audeze LCD series headphones is something to behold. I bought my original LCD-2 r2 because of its synergy with the Liquid Fire. I bought the Liquid Fire because of its synergy with the LCD-2 of that era. The more modern LCD series headphones have just gotten better and have even better synergy with the better Cavalli amps. After you have that you can explore other headphones and other DACs. A Liquid Platinum + Schiit Bifrost 2 + LCD-2 Classic would have been summit-fi back in 2010. And all for about $2450 total (need balanced headphone cables with the LP).


----------



## Wes S (Dec 1, 2019)

Ham Sandwich said:


> Then good luck in your quest. You're going to churn through more amps and more money without finding nirvana. Some people just don't want advice. You're a reason I rarely post at Head-fi. I had a ton of posts here before head-fi switched forum software. Head-fi was better back then.
> 
> I've been doing Cavalli amps for over a decade. And have optimized my system around the sound of Cavalli amps. I have some experience in what pairs well with Cavalli amps and what doesn't. I own a Fire, Glass, and Platinum, and Carbon, and all the Massdrop Cavalli amps and will be buying the Monoprice Liquid Gold X. My one regret is that I didn't buy a Crimson. I've been around people who have built the Cavalli DIY amps and have been able to listen to some of those amps.
> 
> ...


I am a big Cavalli fan myself, and the Schiit Gungnir Multibit in balanced configuration, is a match made in heaven with the LP and my ZMF cans.  The sound is very organic/natural or "real" sounding, with good punch.  I am using Holland made Bugle Boy d getter 6dj8 tubes, from 1958.


----------



## Odin412

Ham Sandwich said:


> For everyone else. My suggested system for Cavalli Liquid Platinum synergy would be: Cavalli Liquid Platinum amp, as much Schiit multibit as you can afford, and an Audeze LCD-2 Classic or one of the better Audeze LCD series headphones. The synergy with the better Cavalli amps (Fire, Crimson, Glass, Platinum, and probably the Gold X) and the Audeze LCD series headphones is something to behold.



I quite agree. I listened to the Bifrost Multibit - Liquid Platinum - LCD-2 combo yesterday and it sounded fabulous. The trademark Cavalli liquid midrange is something to really enjoy.


----------



## Wes S

Odin412 said:


> I quite agree. I listened to the Bifrost Multibit - Liquid Platinum - LCD-2 combo yesterday and it sounded fabulous. The trademark Cavalli liquid midrange is something to really enjoy.


Liquid mids to die for!


----------



## TK16

JohnIgel said:


> I have now had a chance to directly compare the Liquid Platinum with the Mjolnir and let me just say that both amps are really good.
> Each amp has it's particular qualities with the LP being somewhat more musical and laid-back, while the MJ is very resolved and detailed.
> I used the same set of Brimar E88CC tubes to compare the amps.
> For SE testing I used DT 1770 cans and for balanced output I used the Fostex TH900mk2 headphones.
> ...


If I had to choose between one or the other I would pick the MJ2 over the LP owning both with the same tubes. I personally run balanced, I use the MJ2 as a preamp with the LP as amp. This helps with the volume control on the LP, more wiggle room adjusting. I chose this method so I would have 2 sets of tubes in the chain with the Gumby and 3 sets of tubes with my tube dac.


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## funkle II (Dec 1, 2019)

A question for LP owners: I’m intrigued by the descriptions of the Cavalli sound. I like a warm, vivacious sound signature with a no shortage of detail, mid-bass and dynamic impact. I listen mostly to modern fusion, which can get dense & busy in the mix, with many tracks competing for low-mid & mid territory - more about energy than soundstage/imaging. I’m pretty enamored with the Nighhawk/NightOwl for reference. I was ready to give a Cavalli a try, until I read a review that said the LP was best suited for airy, spacious, sparse music. Vocals, chamber, solo acoustic etc. Would this amp be worth a try based on my tastes, or perhaps veer towards the Gold or look elsewhere?


----------



## Odin412

funkle II said:


> A question for LP owners: I’m intrigued by the descriptions of the Cavalli sound. I like a warm, vivacious sound signature with a no shortage of detail, mid-bass and dynamic impact. I listen mostly to modern fusion, which can get dense & busy in the mix, with many tracks competing for low-mid & mid territory - more about energy than soundstage/imaging. I’m pretty enamored with the Nighhawk/NightOwl for reference. I was ready to give a Cavalli a try, until I read a review that said the LP was best suited for airy, spacious, sparse music. Vocals, chamber, solo acoustic etc. Would this amp be worth a try based on my tastes, or perhaps veer towards the Gold or look elsewhere?



Based on your preferences above I think a Cavalli amp may be just what the doctor ordered. The Cavalli sound has a liquid midrange that's to die for IMHO and they are detailed without being harsh or grating. I'm a huge fan of Cavalli amps.


----------



## LCMusicLover

funkle II said:


> A question for LP owners: I’m intrigued by the descriptions of the Cavalli sound. I like a warm, vivacious sound signature with a no shortage of detail, mid-bass and dynamic impact. I listen mostly to modern fusion, which can get dense & busy in the mix, with many tracks competing for low-mid & mid territory - more about energy than soundstage/imaging. I’m pretty enamored with the Nighhawk/NightOwl for reference. I was ready to give a Cavalli a try, until I read a review that said the LP was best suited for airy, spacious, sparse music. Vocals, chamber, solo acoustic etc. Would this amp be worth a try based on my tastes, or perhaps veer towards the Gold or look elsewhere?


LP ==> AudioQuest (Hawk or Owl) will leave you down at the low end of the volume range, possibly into channel imbalance territory. That assumes your source is fairly hot (such as is typical of most current balanced DACs, i.e., ~4Vrms), and that you don’t attenuate between source and amp.

Also, depending on tubes, you might end up with ‘warm times warm’ with LP and those cans. Could lead to a perceived ‘shortage of detail’.


----------



## funkle II (Dec 2, 2019)

LCMusicLover said:


> LP ==> AudioQuest (Hawk or Owl) will leave you down at the low end of the volume range, possibly into channel imbalance territory. That assumes your source is fairly hot (such as is typical of most current balanced DACs, i.e., ~4Vrms), and that you don’t attenuate between source and amp.
> 
> Also, depending on tubes, you might end up with ‘warm times warm’ with LP and those cans. Could lead to a perceived ‘shortage of detail’.



Thanks, that makes sense about the double warm. I'm looking at planars and some of the ZMFs. I think those could be a better match, right? I wasn't aware of the volume sensitivity. Would it be possible to use the LP in conjunction with a preamp or a DAC with a volume control? Both of my DACs (Burson Swing and W4S 2v2) have volume.


----------



## LCMusicLover

funkle II said:


> Thanks, that makes sense about the double warm. I'm looking at planars and some of the ZMFs. I think those could be a better match, right? I wasn't aware of the volume sensitivity. Would it be possible to use the LP in conjunction with a preamp or a DAC with a volume control? Both of my DACs (Burson Swing and W4S 2v2) have volume.


Definitely you can use a pre-amp or attenuate volume on your DAC if that is supported (my Gumby doesn't).  I use a passive pre-amp between my DACs and amps. Also, if you DAC attenuates its analog output, it's fine.  But if it's doing digital attenuation, then you're throwing bits away when you turn down the volume, although many are of the opinion that they were inaudible anyway.

As far as tonality of the LP/AudioQ pairings, that's about 'your ears, my ears', but that would be too warm for me.  In fact, I owned a set of NightOwl Carbon and found them too warm with any/all of my chains, so I'm probably not the right set of ears to advise you.


----------



## funkle II (Dec 2, 2019)

LCMusicLover said:


> But if it's doing digital attenuation, then you're throwing bits away when you turn down the volume, although many are of the opinion that they were inaudible anyway.


That used to be very much the case, but the newer in-chip attenuation is improved to the point that many of the manufacturers have abandoned stepped resister attenuation. Srajan over at 6moons (who I have looked to for many years now as my most trusted reviewer) concurred for both of my DACs, and I certainly cant hear any degradation.

I've been into hi-fi for a long time, but really just now getting into head-fi and greatly enjoying the experience of learning, experimenting and working my way up (rather than just going straight for the end-game)

I get the feeling that the AQ likes accurate components. Currently, I'm using a Burson SS amp. I have the THX 789 coming next week, and looking at Lake People. The LP & appropriate phones will come later after I digest the current stuff I've been amassing.


----------



## bryceu

mixman said:


> I disagree. A better DAC is a better DAC period, meaning it will more accurately portray the source information. Now if you are telling me to get a better DAC, then yes the LP will sound better.....but so will the THX when paired with that better DAC. One may not like the tonal balance or synergy as you call it of that pairing but, I am not after a different "synergy" here. I am after accurate detail and for me the LP doesn't have it on the same level as the THX.


I think the RME ADI-2 DAC + THXAAA amp combo is one of the best you can get for accurate/exact/sharp detail. Definitely more crisp than both Mj2 or LP. Mj2 with LISST comes close to THX but still not as refined sounding. (Best in this price range)


----------



## CreditingKarma

bryceu said:


> I think the RME ADI-2 DAC + THXAAA amp combo is one of the best you can get for accurate/exact/sharp detail. Definitely more crisp than both Mj2 or LP. Mj2 with LISST comes close to THX but still not as refined sounding. (Best in this price range)




You could always save up and get Chord Hugo TT2. It is super transparent.


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## bryceu

Yea it looks like a nice solution, but a bit more than I want to bite off right now. Maybe one day.


----------



## Hansotek

The Liquid Gold X is here. Ask me anything over on the thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monoprice-monolith-liquid-gold-x.914828/page-2


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## Coffee Music

The LP is currently $605 as of right now on Amazon if anyone is interested


----------



## Cat Music

Coffee Music said:


> The LP is currently $605 as of right now on Amazon if anyone is interested


would you recommend it? Is there a defect you found in the LP?


----------



## Coffee Music

Cat Music said:


> would you recommend it? Is there a defect you found in the LP?


I don't know but it's an amp I've wanted and read up on for quite a while. For the most part it's $750 on Amazon. But $605 is an all time low. Just wanted to let some folks that might be interested know.

Its $596 RIGHT NOW


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## kumar402

Coffee Music said:


> I don't know but it's an amp I've wanted and read up on for quite a while. For the most part it's $750 on Amazon. But $605 is an all time low. Just wanted to let some folks that might be interested know.
> 
> Its $596 RIGHT NOW


Wow that’s quite low for this amp


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## Coffee Music

kumar402 said:


> Wow that’s quite low for this amp


YEAA

If anyone's been trying to get this amp now is a glorious opportunity.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Actually, LP has been down to $600 before on Amazon.  I do think $596 is the all-time low.


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## mixman

LCMusicLover said:


> Actually, LP has been down to $600 before on Amazon.  I do think $596 is the all-time low.


Yes it has been this low before. I bought it in July at $615. Thinking about repurchasing again.


----------



## sahmen

That price drop is giving me some ideas about how and when to buy the Liquid Gold X, that is if I decide to bite.  In the meantime, my LP is firing on all cylinders, so there's absolutely no need to rush to buy the Liquid Gold X, unless of course, it comes out of the gate walking on water, singing like the angels, and capable of serving me with audio ambrosia...  

In all other scenarios, I think I can wait to buy, and not be an early adopter, like i was for the LP. 

In the meantime, I am waiting for the 1st professional review of the LG X


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## cobrabucket

LCD-2 + Liquid Platinum =


----------



## mixman

sahmen said:


> That price drop is giving me some ideas about how and when to buy the Liquid Gold X, that is if I decide to bite.  In the meantime, my LP is firing on all cylinders, so there's absolutely no need to rush to buy the Liquid Gold X, unless of course, it comes out of the gate walking on water, singing like the angels, and capable of serving me with audio ambrosia...
> 
> In all other scenarios, I think I can wait to buy, and not be an early adopter, like i was for the LP.
> 
> In the meantime, I am waiting for the 1st professional review of the LG X


What role does the LP play since you have the V281? I am kind of wondering should I wait and see what the reviews say about the LG too.


----------



## sahmen

mixman said:


> What role does the LP play since you have the V281? I am kind of wondering should I wait and see what the reviews say about the LG too.



The LP is in a second system and location which are different from where the v281 is.  The v281, which is paired with my Yggy A2, is integrated into my main 2-channel stereo/5.1 HT system, and that makes it capable of doing a double duty of servicing my HPs as an amp, and also serving as a sort of Pre-amp for my HT speaker system, which it does very well.  

I use the LP, paired with a Metrum Acoustics Onyx DAC, in a nearfield rig which is exclusively dedicated to headphone use. If I wind up getting the liquid Gold X, i could opt to use it in the office at my work place, although I am not entirely sure about that yet,


----------



## mixman

sahmen said:


> The LP is in a second system and location which are different from where the v281 is.  The v281, which is paired with my Yggy A2, is integrated into my main 2-channel stereo/5.1 HT system, and that makes it capable of doing a double duty of servicing my HPs as an amp, and also serving as a sort of Pre-amp for my HT speaker system, which it does very well.
> 
> I use the LP, paired with a Metrum Acoustics Onyx DAC, in a nearfield rig which is exclusively dedicated to headphone use. If I wind up getting the liquid Gold X, i could opt to use it in the office at my work place, although I am not entirely sure about that yet,


Have you ever compared the two amps......the LP and the V281?


----------



## sahmen (Dec 23, 2019)

mixman said:


> Have you ever compared the two amps......the LP and the V281?



If you're talking about a direct A/B type of comparison, then no. But I use them both regularly, and concurrently, all the time, and like them both for what they do, so I guess there is always some unconscious/involuntary comparisons going on.

The sound signatures and tonalities are slightly different, and yet, since both of them perform very well with all my cans, I have not really made up my mind, which one I like better (or maybe, I should say that I have never really felt any need to).  The V281 has the advantage of being the beefier, and more powerful amp, with multiple and, hence, more versatile connectivity options. On the other hand, the tube-rolling on the LP can allow the enjoyment of a diversity of flavors for the same tunes, and the v281 is not capable of that, but I am not counting this as a knock against the V281 either. 

There is also the question of which tube-flavor one should consider to be representative of he "main" LP sound-signature in a comparison.  The fact is that various flavors are possible with different tubes, and I do not believe I have explored even a 10th or even 20th of them yet, so I sometimes feel judging the LP on the basis of the tubes I have rolled with it so far, would still be premature, even if I have immensely enjoyed some of these tubes.

 I also think, finally, that on the value/price/performance front, the LP is just too difficult to beat, in any scenario of comparison, so there is that, yet I really feel no need to pit one unit against the other in any kind of face/off scenarios.  I just appreciate each unit for what it can do, and try not to fret too much over their differences.


----------



## Odin412

cobrabucket said:


> LCD-2 + Liquid Platinum =



Agreed - great combo!


----------



## Cat Music

Is it true that it is recommended to buy better quality tubes than those that come standard on the LP? Could someone confirm that information to me or does the LP sound great with their own tubes?


----------



## Rattle

Cat Music said:


> Is it true that it is recommended to buy better quality tubes than those that come standard on the LP? Could someone confirm that information to me or does the LP sound great with their own tubes?



LP sounds amazing with stock EH tubes it comes with. I also have genelex gold lions, depending on the headphones they match up nicely. Obviously some nice old school NOS tubes would be different/better depending how you'd like to change the sound and for whatever headphones.


----------



## Wes S

Cat Music said:


> Is it true that it is recommended to buy better quality tubes than those that come standard on the LP? Could someone confirm that information to me or does the LP sound great with their own tubes?


Lots of good tube info in this thread - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monoprice-liquid-platinum-tube-rollers.898852/page-23#post-14834958

In short, the LP sounds good with stock tubes, and sounds killer with upgraded NOS tubes.


----------



## nwavesailor

Cat Music said:


> Is it true that it is recommended to buy better quality tubes than those that come standard on the LP? Could someone confirm that information to me or does the LP sound great with their own tubes?



_"What is that?"._..........."It's a rabbit hole"..............._"What is a rabbit hole?"............._"It is where folks just getting into tube audio go!!!"..............."_Is it safe to go down the rabbit hole?......................._"SURE, what could possibly go wrong!!!"


----------



## Wes S

nwavesailor said:


> _"What is that?"._..........."It's a rabbit hole"..............._"What is a rabbit hole?"............._"It is where folks just getting into tube audio go!!!"..............."_Is it safe to go down the rabbit hole?......................._"SURE, what could possibly go wrong!!!"


Been there and done that!  I am so far down the hole there is no getting out, and there is no place I would rather be.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Cat Music said:


> Is it true that it is recommended to buy better quality tubes than those that come standard on the LP? Could someone confirm that information to me or does the LP sound great with their own tubes?


Generally, I agree with other posters.  However, I fall into the 'LP is significantly better with upgraded tubes' camp.

To my ears, with my cans, etc., LP didn't really shine with stock tubes.  My first goal was to 'fix' Utopia.  I had always found it a bit 'sharp' with my SS amps.



Spoiler: Things I tried to 'fix' Utopia



2 different SS amp upgrades (V280, BHA-1). Went from ES9038PRO-based DAC to R2R DAC.  Various cable swaps -- settled on Lazuli Reference. Pad swaps -- Dekoni fenestrated, Elex -- actually listened with Elex pads for quite some time -- until LP showed up.



Stock EH tubes didn't get me there.  Gold LIons turned the corner, and then some other NOS tubes really did the job.  I've settled on NOS Siemens CCa tubes as the best LP/Utopia fit. Warmer, still detailed, not 'sharp' anymore, very musical.  CCa are also great with my Blackwood Auteur.

For Empyrean I preferred my Brimar CV-2492s.  A little brighter, and a bit more dynamic.  Not a huge difference though.  My RAD-0, Ether 2 and HEKv2 like both.  And Auteur can go either way as well but slightly prefer the CCa. 

Ether 2 are a bit of a special case.  I DIDN'T like them with the stock tubes, as they seemed flat and lifeless. The Gold Lions weren't much of an improvement.  But when I got to the Siemens (E88CC) tubes E2 really opened up.  CCa are even better. Very 3-d headstage with great depth.  A little more space with the Brimar tubes and a more 'delicate' sound.  Very noticeable on acoustic music. Conversely, a little beefier bass with the Siemens tubes, and better for rock.


----------



## pichu

Just wanted to point out to all here that i got my Liquid Platinum for $475 from Monoprice right now. Theyre giving a super good deal on open box items!


----------



## Wes S

LCMusicLover said:


> Generally, I agree with other posters.  However, I fall into the 'LP is significantly better with upgraded tubes' camp.
> 
> To my ears, with my cans, etc., LP didn't really shine with stock tubes.  My first goal was to 'fix' Utopia.  I had always found it a bit 'sharp' with my SS amps.
> 
> ...


Good stuff.  Another tube that does not get enough credit and pairs extremely well with LP, is the Holland made Bugle Boy 6dj8/ECC88.  They can be found for under $100.


----------



## KG Jag

^^ Got my "open box" LP today.  It came with the box taped shut, with the tape assuring me that it had been inspected before shipped to me.  Their inspectors must be Larry, Moe and Schemp. The unit that arrived at my door was not only seriously defective.  It was also dangerous.  

It was stuck in the "on" position, regardless of whether the power button was pushed in or out.  It could only be turned off by pulling the power cord, which causes sparks (and gosh knows what else).  The pins of one of the tubes were bent--not far off, but enough to notice and enough not to fit properly in the tube socket.  I applied enough gentle adjustment allowing the tube to sit as it should in the socket.  However as soon as the amp was plugged in (with the power switch in what is supposed to be the "off" position), one tube began glowing, while the one with the bent pins did not.  That tube, its socket and/or something(s) in the box are defective.  The red LED lit immediately, but it never moved to white.  This was not a surprise in light of the rest of the issues.

If my experience is the norm, it is clear that not even minimal checking (e.g. assembling the amp and turning it on) is done.  If they are doing anything, it must be a cursory visual inspection and checking to see that all parts were returned.

It's worth adding that I have other tube and hybrid amps and that this is my second LP.  So I am familiar with how the LP should be assembled and work.  I will be placing a call with MP customer service tomorrow morning.  I have serious doubts that I can trust them to replace what they sent me with a reliable and properly performing amp--certainly not from their "open box" inventory.


----------



## Wes S

KG Jag said:


> ^^ Got my "open box" LP today.  It came with the box taped shut, with the tape assuring me that it had been inspected before shipped to me.  Their inspectors must be Larry, Moe and Schemp. The unit that arrived at my door was not only seriously defective.  It was also dangerous.
> 
> It was stuck in the "on" position, regardless of whether the power button was pushed in or out.  It could only be turned off by pulling the power cord, which causes sparks (and gosh knows what else).  The pins of one of the tubes were bent--not far off, but enough to notice and enough not to fit properly in the tube socket.  I applied enough gentle adjustment allowing the tube to sit as it should in the socket.  However as soon as the amp was plugged in (with the power switch in what is supposed to be the "off" position), one tube began glowing, while the one with the bent pins did not.  That tube, its socket and/or something(s) in the box are defective.  The red LED lit immediately, but it never moved to white.  This was not a surprise in light of the rest of the issues.
> 
> ...


That is a bummer!  Just to clarify, you never want to plug in the power supply with the power switch pushed in, which is the on position.


----------



## KG Jag

The power switch was in the out/off position when I plugged it in.  That said, someone unfamiliar with the unit may not know what position it is in if the unit arrived with the power switch in the power "on" position.  This is certainly something that could be improved  in a next generation or earlier.


----------



## xiorath (Jan 4, 2020)

Hey guys, I recently got a good steal on ebay of the LP and looking for some advice. I'm planning on using them paired with the Sennheiser HD800S. I'm coming from a Schiit Valhalla 2 Amp and a Modi Multibit Dac. What tubes would you recommend since the Sennheiser's are known to be quite bright without proper tubes? I ordered a pair of JJ 6922 Gold Pin tubes but looking for other opinions and options as well in case I don't care for them too much. Taking a good look at the Siemens E88CC tubes(Are the E88CCA variants worth the extra 70$ for a pair?), I'm pretty tempted to drop two bills on a pair of those.. Also, will my DAC be holding the SQ back much? I listen to a lot of electronic music and do a lot of PC gaming (So imaging, sound stage and bass slam is pretty important)


----------



## Wes S

xiorath said:


> Hey guys, I recently got a good steal on ebay of the LP and looking for some advice. I'm planning on using them paired with the Sennheiser HD800S. I'm coming from a Schiit Valhalla 2 Amp and a Modi Multibit Dac. What tubes would you recommend since the Sennheiser's are known to be quite bright without proper tubes? I ordered a pair of JJ 6922 Gold Pin tubes but looking for other opinions and options as well in case I don't care for them too much. Taking a good look at the Siemens E88CC tubes(Are the E88CCA variants worth the extra 70$ for a pair?), I'm pretty tempted to drop two bills on a pair of those.. Also, will my DAC be holding the SQ back much? I listen to a lot of electronic music and do a lot of PC gaming (So imaging, sound stage and bass slam is pretty important)


Congrats on a getting a killer amp!  The Liquid Platinum is quite transparent and can be affected quite a bit from using different dacs.  I highly recommend the Amperex Holland made Bugle Boy 6dj8/ecc88.  

Also lots of good tube info in this thread.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monoprice-liquid-platinum-tube-rollers.898852/page-33

Welcome to the club!


----------



## Mkoll

I recently bought an open-box from Monoprice and so far no problems with it. Great amp! Much more musical than my Massdrop THX AAA 789 while still maintaing excellent resolution and detail retrieval. Looking forward to trying the Gold Lions I just ordered.


----------



## xiorath (Jan 5, 2020)

Wes S said:


> Congrats on a getting a killer amp!  The Liquid Platinum is quite transparent and can be affected quite a bit from using different dacs.  I highly recommend the Amperex Holland made Bugle Boy 6dj8/ecc88.
> 
> Also lots of good tube info in this thread.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monoprice-liquid-platinum-tube-rollers.898852/page-33
> ...



thanks man! your post got me worried so it made me take a splurg on a Topping D70.. for a Dac upgrade. Now I remember why I stopped coming to Head-Fi unless im dead set on upgrading lol. I also ended up going with a pair of the 1961 Amperex PQ 6922/E88CC White labled USA Gold Pin with matching serials for 225$ from a ebay seller you linked to in another thread and found them mentioned on joes tubes recommendations as it sounds like they're the perfect match for me.
I plan on doing some more tube rolling and will probably be picking up a pair of the ones you recommended as well just to see what they're all about 
Welp, thats about 1300$ in the hole but I'm sure the entire upgrade will be worth it. They should all be coming around the same time so hooking up a whole new system to the HD800/S is going to be pretty damn exciting.

Oh, are there any particular XLR cables that I need? This is my first time diving into using balanced cables. I was just going to grab some basic ones from monoprice.


----------



## Wes S

xiorath said:


> thanks man! your post got me worried so it made me take a splurg on a Topping D70.. for a Dac upgrade. Now I remember why I stopped coming to Head-Fi unless im dead set on upgrading lol. I also ended up going with a pair of the 1961 Amperex PQ 6922/E88CC USA Gold Pin with matching serials for 225$ from a ebay seller you linked to in another thread and found them mentioned on joes tubes recommendations as it sounds like they're the perfect match for me.
> I plan on doing some more tube rolling and will probably be picking up a pair of the ones you recommended as well just to see what they're all about
> Welp, thats about 1300$ in the hole but I'm sure the entire upgrade will be worth it. They should all be coming around the same time so hooking up a whole new system to the HD800/S is going to be pretty damn exciting.


Sounds like some fun times ahead, for sure!


----------



## pichu

xiorath said:


> thanks man! your post got me worried so it made me take a splurg on a Topping D70.. for a Dac upgrade. Now I remember why I stopped coming to Head-Fi unless im dead set on upgrading lol. I also ended up going with a pair of the 1961 Amperex PQ 6922/E88CC White labled USA Gold Pin with matching serials for 225$ from a ebay seller you linked to in another thread and found them mentioned on joes tubes recommendations as it sounds like they're the perfect match for me.
> I plan on doing some more tube rolling and will probably be picking up a pair of the ones you recommended as well just to see what they're all about
> Welp, thats about 1300$ in the hole but I'm sure the entire upgrade will be worth it. They should all be coming around the same time so hooking up a whole new system to the HD800/S is going to be pretty damn exciting.
> 
> Oh, are there any particular XLR cables that I need? This is my first time diving into using balanced cables. I was just going to grab some basic ones from monoprice.



Basic ones will work. I do suggest Blue Jeans Cables though. They are cheap in price but high in quality and customer service. I use them for my XLRs and ethernet cables, etc.


----------



## Mkoll

Ghent cables are good and fairly priced as well though they may take longer to arrive.


----------



## xiorath

sick! thank you guys for all the help! I'll post my impressions once everything is setup and I've done a full off day of listening to some music/ gaming then compare the two setups and also the differences i get with the JJ/Amp white label tubes.


----------



## gtb75

FYI for anyone who doesn't have one yet, Amazon is currently selling the LP for $615.99 and has six of them used for under $500! I have had mine since late 2018 and still love it... Great amp - particularly at these prices.


----------



## KG Jag

^^^ I use Monoprice XLR balanced cables and am very happy with them.  Like many of Monoprice cables, they are hard to beat at their price points or anything near them.


----------



## KG Jag

Yesterday I got my replacement "open box" LP from Monoprice.  Major improvement from the first one, which was both dangerous and defective for multiple reasons.  Ran 5 SACD's and 1 CD between both the balanced and RCA inputs into a balanced HD 800.  Sounds great (although not yet burned in by a long shot), especially after it had been on for about 45 minutes to an hour.


----------



## Ham Sandwich

Cat Music said:


> Is it true that it is recommended to buy better quality tubes than those that come standard on the LP? Could someone confirm that information to me or does the LP sound great with their own tubes?



The LP sounds fine with the stock tubes.

The Cavalli blended hybrids (Liquid Fire, Liquid Crimson, Liquid Platinum) are mostly solid state in their sound. The tube side contributes to maybe 25% or less of the sound. When rolling tubes you're playing with the 25% and less part of the sound. Tube rolling doesn't make that much of a difference with the blended hybrid design as they would in a more conventional tube amp.  Tube rolling with the blended hybrids isn't going to radically change the amp. It's about more subtle changes. Keep that in mind when considering whether it is worth it to try rolling in some expensive tubes. 

The LP sounds fine with the stock tubes. For new production tubes the Gold Lion tubes are the best sounding of the new production tubes to me. From there it is into the NOS tubes. The LP tube rolling thread is a bit nuts. Crazy. Don't feel that you need to acquire a big tube stash to try rolling in different tubes. 

The Liquid Platinum is an affordable hybrid amp. You don't need to turn it into an expensive amp by playing with tubes that are $100+ each. You don't need to turn the LP into a $1400 amp by spending hundreds of dollars on tubes. The stock tubes work fine. Consider that spending lots of money on tubes maybe could be better spent on a better DAC instead. If you're trying to get a bigger soundstage out of the LP consider a DAC that has a bigger and deeper soundstage instead.

I have a Liquid Fire and a Liquid Platinum. I use Gold Lion new production tubes in both of them. They're good enough for me. The Liquid Fire is the amp I use the most. One reason I have Gold Lion tubes in it is because I run the amp enough that the tubes tend to last about two years before the sound quality lessens and I notice that "hey, it's probably time for new tubes". I put in new tubes and the sound quality is back. The Liquid Fire takes four tubes. With the Gold Lions that's less than $200 worth of tubes. With some of the NOS that would be $600+ worth of tubes. It is much easier on my nervosa to replace $200 worth of tubes than $600 every two years. With $600 tubes I'd be saying maybe the tubes aren't worn out yet and can go a bit more even if I know the tubes are wearing out and the sound quality is decreasing. While with the Gold Lions I just change the tubes without needing to consider the cost.

I haven't run the Liquid Platinum enough to know how long tubes are going to last in it. I expect about the same number of hours as the Liquid Fire.


----------



## mixman

Ham Sandwich said:


> The LP sounds fine with the stock tubes.
> 
> The Cavalli blended hybrids (Liquid Fire, Liquid Crimson, Liquid Platinum) are mostly solid state in their sound. The tube side contributes to maybe 25% or less of the sound. When rolling tubes you're playing with the 25% and less part of the sound. Tube rolling doesn't make that much of a difference with the blended hybrid design as they would in a more conventional tube amp.  Tube rolling with the blended hybrids isn't going to radically change the amp. It's about more subtle changes. Keep that in mind when considering whether it is worth it to try rolling in some expensive tubes.
> 
> ...


Agreed. I found when had the LP and rolled tubes the sound did not dramatically change. Basically love it or hate it, the sound is what it is, tube rolling will not change the sound enough to change your mind either way.


----------



## Wes S (Jan 11, 2020)

Ham Sandwich said:


> The LP sounds fine with the stock tubes.
> 
> The Cavalli blended hybrids (Liquid Fire, Liquid Crimson, Liquid Platinum) are mostly solid state in their sound. The tube side contributes to maybe 25% or less of the sound. When rolling tubes you're playing with the 25% and less part of the sound. Tube rolling doesn't make that much of a difference with the blended hybrid design as they would in a more conventional tube amp.  Tube rolling with the blended hybrids isn't going to radically change the amp. It's about more subtle changes. Keep that in mind when considering whether it is worth it to try rolling in some expensive tubes.
> 
> ...


Curious what tubes have you tried, other than stock and Gold Lions?
I have rolled some tubes that made quite a change to the sound, and they did not cost a fortune either.  For example, the Holland made Bugle Boy ECC88 D Getter from 58'.  Another great tube, that sounds quite different from stock is the Brimar CV 2492.  Both tubes cost around $80 for the pair, and changed the sound enough to justify the expense.  I can't really put a percentage on how much the sound changed, but it did and it was fun.  Some tubes I have tried are just unlistenable as in changes of sound were drastic enough to cause fatigue.  I totally get the point of not going crazy with $1000 dollar tubes, but tube rolling with this Hybrid, is just as fun as with my OTL.  Roll on fellow LP owners, and tweak the sound to your liking.

Just to add, I agree the DAC used with LP has a more significant effect to the sound, and was my first upgrade, when I got my LP.


----------



## Wes S

Cat Music said:


> Is it true that it is recommended to buy better quality tubes than those that come standard on the LP? Could someone confirm that information to me or does the LP sound great with their own tubes?


Sure it sounds fine with stock tubes, but it sounds amazing and a heck of a lot better, with some NOS tubes.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Ham Sandwich said:


> ...Tube rolling with the blended hybrids isn't going to radically change the amp. It's about subtle changes...


Absolutely true.


> ...Don't feel that you need to acquire a big tube stash to try rolling in different tubes...You don't need to turn it into an expensive amp by playing with tubes that are $100+ each. You don't need to turn the LP into a $1400 amp by spending hundreds of dollars on tubes.


Great! NOW you tell me.


> ...Consider that spending lots of money on tubes maybe could be better spent on a better DAC instead..


Yep. Or better cans, or maybe better power, or better source files. Or a cable upgrade. 

For me, there are a lot of moving parts in my chain — different cans, DACs, cables, pads. Changing cans (obviously) has by far the biggest impact. But after that...swapping between my DACs and changing cables are in the same ball park as far as the magnitude of the impact on the sound. Note that I’m talking about comparing good DACs, and good upgrade cables. So when I swap Silver Dragon and Lazuli Reference cables or Denafrips Pontus and Gumby, the changes are similar in degree. And such changes are intended to ‘shape’ the sound to improve pairings with different cans or for different musical genres...or just for the heck of it 

All that is a preamble to say that tube rolling with the LP is about shaping the sound signature, not changing it significantly. 

However, to my ears, LP/stock tubes wasn’t wonderful. And since, when I acquired it, I was hoping for a magical pairing w/ Utopia, that disappointed me. Admittedly, I went a bit nuts rolling tubes for a while: Gold Lions, Amperex PQ, Siemens E88CC & E188CC & CCa, Brimar CV-2492 (two pair). I did spend more on tubes than on the amp — well, actually about the same. The Gold Lions and Siemens were all about the Utopia pairing. Brimar were about pairing with Empyrean when I owned them. They _NEEDED_ a tube upgrade — just too warm with stock tubes or the various Siemens tubes. Ether 2 are the only other cans which needed a tube upgrade. They seemed flat and lifeless from LP/stock tubes.

Actually that’s a really good illustration of what can be done. Utopia were just OK from LP/stock, but not noticeably better than from Liquid Carbon X. But the Utopia/LP/Semens NOS pairing does provide the magic I’d hoped for. Empyrean were better from LP/Brimar, but not improved enough for me to like/keep them. Ether 2 picked up enough energy and headstage depth with upgraded tubes that I preferred that pairing to E2/Bryston BHA-1, which definitely wasn’t true for E2/LP/stock.

But overall, I agree that the amp isn’t going to change character with different tubes. If you don’t like it (at least a little) with stock tubes, no tube swap is gonna ‘fix’ it for you.


----------



## Wes S (Jan 12, 2020)

Some tubes make a bigger difference than others.

Examples of NOS tubes that have different sound signatures-

1. Mullard CV2492 - pretty much mids only and super warm and rolled off on both ends.
2. Brimar CV 2492- Forward Vocals and extended top end without ever getting harsh, more neutral sounding than Mullard with a hint of warmth and extending deeper in bass as well.
3. Siemens 6DJ8 - So transparent, forward, dynamic and clear it caused me fatigue on long sessions, however it is well balanced and I could see many loving it.
4. Amperex Bugle Boy D getter made in Holland 6DJ8 - Huge bass and forward beautiful mids and lifelike vocals, with lovely extended highs.  3 D like and huge sound stage.  This is my current favorite tube, and if you don't think the LP has bass slam and punch, then you need to try this tube.

Just to add, these tubes to me are like tone controls, and the overall sound of the amp stays the same, but becomes more enjoyable and listenable.  So why not try a few tubes, that have completely different sound signatures and see which one you like.  Just because it is an affordable hybrid, don't let that deter you from tube rolling and tweaking the sound.  Also, all tubes above can be found in pairs listed under or around $80 - $100.

After all, aren't subtle changes and tweaks, what this hobby is all about?


----------



## Wes S

My favorite tube currently warming up in LP.

Made in Holland - Amperex Bugle Boy ECC88/6DJ8 -  D Getters - 1958







Happy Sunday and Listening!


----------



## Ham Sandwich (Nov 27, 2020)

What prompted my post about tube rolling is seeing some posts in this thread with people expressing some nervosa about buying thing Liquid Platinum thinking they’d need to dive into the crazy rabbit hole of tube rolling if they got the amp. Tube rolling is not necessary. The tube rolling threads on head-fi exaggerate the benefits and utility of tube rolling various amp. And the Liquid Platinum is one of them.

The truth is that the Liquid Platinum is a Cavalli blended hybrid design where most of the sound style is already baked in the solid state side of the amp and the circuit design. The tubes contribute to only about 25% or less of the overall sound (I’d say less). It is not an amp designed to respond to tube rolling.  You can change tubes as a sort of tone control with the amp. But you aren’t going to get radical changes. Just what I’d consider minor. Tubes only affect 25% or less of the overall sound.

I don’t want people to get the idea that they need to do tube rolling with the Liquid Platinum or any of the other Cavalli blended hybrid amps. Because you don’t.

The tube rolling threads on head-fi tend to give a wrong impression about how much tubes change the sound of particular amps. The tube rolling guys have their fun. I understand it. But it does scare away some people from considering amps that have active tube rolling threads.

I am familiar with tube rolling and how different tubes affect the sound. I also own a Cavalli Liquid Glass. The Liquid Glass is a hybrid amp where the tubes really are a major part of the circuit. The design of the Liquid Glass is to transmit the sound of the tubes to the headphones with as little change as possible. And it does. Tube changes with the Liquid Glass make big changes to the sound. Roll two pairs of tubes in the Liquid Platinum and little change. Roll those same pairs of tubes in the Liquid Glass and big change. With the Liquid Platinum you’re getting less than 25% of the change as with the Liquid Glass. Plus with reasonable tubes the Liquid Glass just sounds better than the Liquid Platinum ever can.

Another inconvenient truth is that the Liquid Fire and Liquid Crimson will sound better using the Gold Lion tubes than the Liquid Platinum will sound with any exotic tube you can find.  For optimal spending don’t spend more on a Liquid Platinum plus tube stash than a used Liquid Fire and a quad of Gold Lion new production tubes.

My experience with the Liquid Fire and Liquid Glass pretty much quells my desire to roll tubes in the Liquid Platinum.  Because rolling tubes in the Liquid Platinum gets the least benefit and lower ultimate fidelity.

The Liquid Platinum is a fantastic amp a great bargain and I quite like it. But things do need to be kept in perspective.


----------



## KG Jag

The unbalanced (although you can use headphones with balanced connectors) Liquid Glass was/is a true tube rollers delight.  It is designed for that purpose.  I never had the pleasure of owning one, but spend a lot of time with it at HF meets. With Alex's help and suggestions I was able to hear very different sound signatures (some of which sounded outstanding to me and some of which I heard to be very bad and colored in an undesirable way) with multiple different tubes--no adapters needed.  See:



and

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details...uid-glass-headphone-amplifier/images/1600860/

In comparison the LP is a tube tweeker.  That is not a bad thing, but it is certainly a different thing.


----------



## Wes S (Jan 13, 2020)

Ham Sandwich said:


> What prompted my post about tube rolling is seeing some posts in this thread with people expressing some nervosa about buying thing Liquid Platinum thinking they’d need to dive into the crazy rabbit hole of tube rolling if they got the amp. Tube rolling is not necessary. The tube rolling threads on head-fi exaggerate the benefits and utility of tube rolling various amp. And the Liquid Platinum is one of them.
> 
> The truth is that the Liquid Platinum is a Cavalli blended hybrid design where most of the sound style is already baked in the solid state side of the amp and the circuit design. The tubes contribute to only about 25% or less of the overall sound (I’d say less). It is not an amp designed to respond to tube rolling.  You can change tubes as a sort of tone control with the amp. But you aren’t going to get radical changes. Just what I’d consider minor. Tubes only affect 25% or less of the overall sound.
> 
> ...


I am still curious what tubes you have tried in the Liquid Platinum, other than stock and New Production Gold Lions?


----------



## Wes S

My point regarding tube rolling with LP.  If you are gonna spend the money on some New Production Gold Lions, why not spend the same amount or a tad bit more, and get some NOS tubes.  It has been said time and time again, most NOS tubes sound better than any New Production tubes.


----------



## Rattle

Wes S said:


> Good stuff.  Another tube that does not get enough credit and pairs extremely well with LP, is the Holland made Bugle Boy 6dj8/ECC88.  They can be found for under $100.



Is there a trusted ebay place to get a pair for under $100 ?


----------



## Wes S (Jan 14, 2020)

Rattle said:


> Is there a trusted ebay place to get a pair for under $100 ?


 A little more than $100, but this is my favorite ebay seller.  He offers 30 day returns, and really test well.  He actually listens for noise in an amp, as well.  I have bought over 15 tubes from this seller without issue.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...821493?hash=item1a87c28375:g:r-wAAOSw~AFdvbX2

Anyone looking for a tube, that will make the LP sound incredible, and very 3d like, this is the tube.  The bass from this tube hits so hard, I thought I was going to blow my drivers first time I listened with them.  The highs have a nice sparkle, and the mids are forward and very natural sounding.  This tube blows any New Production tube out of the water!


----------



## Wes S

Here is a good deal on another amazing tube, from a seller I trust.  The Brimar CV2492.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-CCa-E88C...327681?hash=item365b0599c1:g:428AAOSweI9dwCU3


----------



## Wes S

If anyone is looking to hear what a good NOS tube can do for a hybrid tube amp, I would jump on one of the tubes listed above.


----------



## Wes S

Rattle said:


> Is there a trusted ebay place to get a pair for under $100 ?


Here is some O getter Bugle Boys, that are said to sound almost as good as the earlier D getters, for a killer price.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...a=1&pg=2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100008.m2219


----------



## Wes S

Wes S said:


> A little more than $100, but this is my favorite ebay seller.  He offers 30 day returns, and really test well.  He actually listens for noise in an amp, as well.  I have bought over 15 tubes from this seller without issue.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...821493?hash=item1a87c28375:g:r-wAAOSw~AFdvbX2
> 
> Anyone looking for a tube, that will make the LP sound incredible, and very 3d like, this is the tube.  The bass from this tube hits so hard, I thought I was going to blow my drivers first time I listened with them.  The highs have a nice sparkle, and the mids are forward and very natural sounding.  This tube blows any New Production tube out of the water!


Sorry, I just bought this pair.  They sound too freakin good in this hybrid, not to have another back up pair.


----------



## Wes S

Here is another killer priced Bugle Boy O getter, from another one of my favorite tube sellers.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/751131...f=sr_gallery-1-7&organic_search_click=1&cns=1

Happy tube hunting!


----------



## Zachik

Wes S said:


> Sorry, I just bought this pair.  They sound too freakin good in this hybrid, not to have another back up pair.


Wes, you're a party pooper!


----------



## nwavesailor

Wes S said:


> Sorry, I just bought this pair.  They sound too freakin good in this hybrid, not to have another back up pair.



Is this pair you _1st backup_............ or is it really the backup _of that backup_????   
I'm guilty as well and have multiples of my favorites dreading the thought of not having another pair if one goes bad.

The funny thing is, at least for me, as I have NEVER had to go into my backups!  Just spending $$$ on tubes that I will never ever wear out or use.

We are kooks in audio............ and tube audio is yet another level of kookiness.


----------



## Wes S

nwavesailor said:


> Is this pair you _1st backup_............ or is it really the backup _of that backup_????
> I'm guilty as well and have multiples of my favorites dreading the thought of not having another pair if one goes bad.
> 
> The funny thing is, at least for me, as I have NEVER had to go into my backups!  Just spending $$$ on tubes that I will never ever wear out or use.
> ...


You got me!  This is my forth and final pair.


----------



## Zachik

nwavesailor said:


> I'm guilty as well and have multiples of my favorites dreading the thought of not having another pair if one goes bad.
> 
> The funny thing is, at least for me, as I have NEVER had to go into my backups! Just spending $$$ on tubes that I will never ever wear out or use.


Same here!

Being a bass head myself, after reading Wes' comments about this tube's bass - I wanted to buy the pair! Needless to say I was too late...


----------



## Zachik

Wes S said:


> You got me!  This is my forth and final pair.


Wes - if you decide that 3 pairs are enough, please PM me!
From your description, this is the ideal sound signature for me!! (I already got a pair of the Brimars you recommended a few months ago, and love them)


----------



## nwavesailor

I don't 'stalk' you Wes, but I do read many posts regarding tubes that excite you and figured this was just.................._one_................_more_............._pair!_

So technically, 4 pairs = 1 primary pair and, in the event of the Zombie Apoocalypse, you have three backups pairs. That sounds to me like a solid plan and I applaud you on being prepared!!!

Friken tubes.............


----------



## Wes S

Zachik said:


> Wes - if you decide that 3 pairs are enough, please PM me!
> From your description, this is the ideal sound signature for me!! (I already got a pair of the Brimars you recommended a few months ago, and love them)


Will do.  I will keep an eye out for another pair, as well, and let you know.  If you like the Brimar, you'll love these Bugle Boys.


----------



## Wes S (Jan 14, 2020)

nwavesailor said:


> I don't 'stalk' you Wes, but I do read many posts regarding tubes that excite you and figured this was just.................._one_................_more_............._pair!_
> 
> So technically, 4 pairs = 1 primary pair and, in the event of the Zombie Apoocalypse, you have three backups pairs. That sounds to me like a solid plan and I applaud you on being prepared!!!
> 
> Friken tubes.............


NOS tubes are an investment, and are not getting any cheaper.  Also, ECC88/6dj8 are not rated for as many hours as E88CC/6922, so that's a couple reasons for multiple pairs.  Also, these sound so good, I want to have them for any future amps I purchase.  I am an addict.   This particular tube is going to be worth a lot more in a few years. . .

In a few years from now, I bet Holland made / D getter / Bugle Boys from 1958', will be selling for around $400 a pair, and the most I paid was $135, so there is that.


----------



## Wes S

Here is another pair, from same seller.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/114066279201


----------



## sahmen

Wes S said:


> Here is another pair, from same seller.
> 
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/114066279201


Are the 1958 and 1959 versions the same in SQ?  I thought you preferred the 1958 version for a reason?


----------



## Wes S (Jan 14, 2020)

sahmen said:


> Are the 1958 and 1959 versions the same in SQ?  I thought you preferred the 1958 version for a reason?


Yes.  The d getter is the key and what you want.  D getter was made in 58' and 59', and that is why I said 58'.


----------



## Wes S

Wes S said:


> Here is another pair, from same seller.
> 
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/114066279201


. . .and who ever bought this pair, is going to be super happy!  Get ready for some bass. . .


----------



## sahmen (Jan 14, 2020)

Wes S said:


> Yes.  The d getter is what you want.  D getter was made in 58' and 59'.



Okay, so I jumped on the pair, as you shall see if you click on the link again... So "guilty as charged!" Since I also have quite a number of pairs of tubes for the LP that I haven't even used yet, I guess that confirms my status as a kind of "tube addict" in the making (I wouldn't go as far as use the expression "tube whore" though, since it sounds so horrible .  Not that I have heard anyone use it, but it must have occurred to me just now for a reason.)... By the way, if the spouse threatens me with divorce for being a "tube... errr  *whatever*,"  I'll know who to blame for tempting me with such irresistible pitches...

Now all jokes aside, can I use the LP's regular 6922 sockets and my socket savers with these, or will I need converters?  I have a pair of these 12Axx to ECC88 Adapters from tubemonger on standby, which I have never used, just in case... Let me know :


----------



## Wes S

sahmen said:


> Okay, so I jumped on the pair, as you shall see if you click on the link again... So "guilty as charged!" Since I also have quite a number of pairs of tubes for the LP that I haven't even used yet, I guess that confirms my status as a kind of "tube addict" in the making (I wouldn't go as far as use the expression "tube whore" though, since it sounds so horrible .  Not that I have heard anyone use it, but it must have occurred to me just now for a reason.)... By the way, if the spouse threatens me with divorce for being a "tube... errr  *whatever*,"  I'll know who to blame for tempting me with such irresistible pitches...
> 
> Now all jokes aside, can I use the LP's regular 6922 sockets and my socket savers with these, or will I need converters?  I have a pair of these 12Axx to ECC88 Adapters from tubemonger on standby, which I have never used, just in case... Let me know :


Nice man!  Glad you got them.  No need for adapters/converters, as these are just drop in replacements, so LP's regular sockets are all I use.  The socket savers will work too, but I don't use them.


----------



## Wes S

I don't know anything about this seller, other than they offer 30 day returns, but here are 3 more pairs of the Holland D getter 6dj8/ecc88.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-6D...:IL8AAOSwKJldVuBE:sc:USPSPriority!75006!US!-1


----------



## nwavesailor

I use Tube Monger socket savers as well as the Tube Monger 12A** adapters and they have been flawless. I understand that there are purists that are not fans of any socket savers, but with the LP they are a nice addition for easier tube rolling, IMO.   

The 12A** adapter allows the use of, in the LP, 12AU7's that I prefer even with lots of 6922 / 7308 / 6DJ8 I own. Some folks want to stay with the 'approved' 6922 variants and that's fine. 

I have been using the Tube Monger adapters with 12AU7's and Garage 1217 adapters with WE 2C51 / 396A for more than a year with no issues. It does, however, open a new rabbit hole for tube addicts!!!


----------



## cobrabucket (Jan 14, 2020)

Wes S said:


> I don't know anything about this seller, other than they offer 30 day returns, but here are 3 more pairs of the Holland D getter 6dj8/ecc88.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-6D...:IL8AAOSwKJldVuBE:sc:USPSPriority!75006!US!-1


I might have to get a pair of these... I currently have a pair of Valvo ecc88, not sure of the year, think it's from the 1960's, maybe? Not sure how they'd compare to the D Getters you linked.


----------



## Ham Sandwich

Why is this tube buying talk in the Liquid Platinum thread instead of the Liquid Platinum Tube Rolling thread where it belongs?

It seems a lot of tube rolling interest is in the joy of acquisition and the pursuit to accumulate esoteric knowledge about tubes. If you're going to brag about eBay purchases and finds please keep them to the tube rolling thread so they don't clog up discussions about this wonderful amp. I'd much rather be reading about the amp itself and headphones and DACs that have great system synergy with the amp than read about eBay tube purchases.


----------



## nwavesailor (Jan 16, 2020)

This is _not_ intended to be an insult or wise A** comment, @Ham Sandwich, but how do you decide what amp in your quiver to use on any given day?

I have 3 amps, (LP and GS-X Mini are setup) so I was wondering what I would do with quite a few more amps..................


----------



## Wes S (Jan 16, 2020)

The LP sounds incredible paired with my ZMF Ori!  Anyone find another headphone pairing that sounds killer?  Seems that my hard to drive planar really likes the power and control the LP brings to the table. 

One thing that really stands out is the forward and intimate vocals, and it sounds as if the musician is right in front of me.  The sound is so lifelike, I really feel l like I am sitting on stage right in front of the performer.  Fun stuff for sure!


----------



## Wes S (Jan 16, 2020)

Ham Sandwich said:


> Why is this tube buying talk in the Liquid Platinum thread instead of the Liquid Platinum Tube Rolling thread where it belongs?
> 
> It seems a lot of tube rolling interest is in the joy of acquisition and the pursuit to accumulate esoteric knowledge about tubes. If you're going to brag about eBay purchases and finds please keep them to the tube rolling thread so they don't clog up discussions about this wonderful amp. I'd much rather be reading about the amp itself and headphones and DACs that have great system synergy with the amp than read about eBay tube purchases.


Hey Ham Sandwich!  Sorry for derailing this thread!  I think we both have good intentions of trying to get people to enjoy this amazing amp.  Yes, no tube rolling is needed at all.  However, my point is that for those that may not quite like the amp's stock sound, as in wanting a bit more of this or that, like bass impact or treble extension, swapping tubes might just do the trick. We both did this, but settled on different tubes.  So, I want people to enjoy this amazing amp, as much as you.  I did get carried away a bit, and apologize.

What's your favorite headphone pairing with the LP?

I see we have the same dac, and I absolutely love the Gumby paired with the LP.  The dynamics and immersive sound stage are killer.


----------



## Odin412

Wes S said:


> The LP sounds incredible paired with my ZMF Ori!  Anyone find another headphone pairing that sounds killer?  Seems that my hard to drive planar really likes the power and control the LP brings to the table.
> 
> One thing that really stands out is the forward and intimate vocals, and it sounds as if the musician is right in front of me.  The sound is so lifelike, I really feel l like I am sitting on stage right in front of the performer.  Fun stuff for sure!



I second that. The original MrSpeakers/Dan Clark Audio Aeon Flow Open also pairs very well with the Liquid Platinum.


----------



## Wes S

Odin412 said:


> I second that. The original MrSpeakers/Dan Clark Audio Aeon Flow Open also pairs very well with the Liquid Platinum.


Nice!  The LP makes my MrSpeakers Alpha Primes sing, as well.  I have read over and over how well MrSpeakers/Dan Clark Audio headphones sound with Cavalli amps, and the LP is no exception.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Honestly, the only cans I didn't like with LP were Empyrean -- didn't like the warmth added to the already warm tonality.  Empy sounded really lush and full from LP. I'm sure others might enjoy that, but just a little too 'warm poo' for me. It got a little better when I rolled in some Brimar CV-2492s, but eventually the Empy were sold while LP remains.


Wes S said:


> ...What's your favorite headphone pairing with the LP?...


For me, the question is more:

'Which cans do you like better (or as well) from your LP than from your DSHA-3F?'

Unreasonable/unfair to compare a $700 amp vs a $2800 amp, but hey, it is what it is 

I'll do a little A/B and post my impressions, but up front I can predict that the answer will be 'Auteur'.  They change character with every amp, and different with different tubes in the LP, but so far I haven't found a chain which made me dislike them.  

I'm really curious whether I'll prefer the 3F paired with my HD-6xx.  To me, the LP/6xx pairing is glorious.  Until I got the LP, I never though the 6xx justified their reputation.  The LP/6xx pairing was a revelation.

I haven't done much LP vs 3F A/Bing yet.  I've mostly been playing with the 3F since it came in (new headphones, new DAC), but I'm ready now.


----------



## Wes S (Jan 16, 2020)

LCMusicLover said:


> Honestly, the only cans I didn't like with LP were Empyrean -- didn't like the warmth added to the already warm tonality.  Empy sounded really lush and full from LP. I'm sure others might enjoy that, but just a little too 'warm poo' for me. It got a little better when I rolled in some Brimar CV-2492s, but eventually the Empy were sold while LP remains.
> 
> For me, the question is more:
> 
> ...


Nice man!  I have heard the 3f and Autuer is an endgame pairing.

Good to know about the HD 6XX and LP pairing.  Funny thing is my HD650 sound so good on my Bottlehead Crack, that I have never tried them on my LP.  I will have to give this a go, when I get home.


----------



## Wes S

Hooked my ZMF Aeolus up to my LP yesterday, for the first time in a while, and holy heck!

The ZMF website describes the Aeolus as having "Dynamic zest and punch", and with the Gumby & LP (Bugle Boy D Getter tubes) pairing, that is the best way to describe the sound.  This is one seriously fun combo, and the Aeolus is going to stay connected to the LP for a good while.   The bass slam, huge 3 d like sound stage, and very forward/intimate vocals is the kind of sound I dreamed of, when I first got into the hobby a few years ago.  The vocals sound so real, it is as if the performer is standing right in front of me singing their hearts out, with all other instrument sounds dancing around my head.  Truly a breathtaking experience.

Happy Listening!


----------



## Odin412

Wes S said:


> Hooked my ZMF Aeolus up to my LP yesterday, for the first time in a while, and holy heck!
> 
> The ZMF website describes the Aeolus as having "Dynamic zest and punch", and with the Gumby & LP (Bugle Boy D Getter tubes) pairing, that is the best way to describe the sound.  This is one seriously fun combo, and the Aeolus is going to stay connected to the LP for a good while.   The bass slam, huge 3 d like sound stage, and very forward/intimate vocals is the kind of sound I dreamed of, when I first got into the hobby a few years ago.  The vocals sound so real, it is as if the performer is standing right in front of me singing their hearts out, with all other instrument sounds dancing around my head.  Truly a breathtaking experience.
> 
> Happy Listening!



Excellent! I've been using my Aeolus with my Woo Audio WA3 for a while, but after reading this I clearly need to try it with my Liquid Platinum.


----------



## MisterMoJo

Are the stock tubes any good?  Or is tube rolling a must for this amp?


----------



## LCMusicLover

MisterMoJo said:


> Are the stock tubes any good?  Or is tube rolling a must for this amp?


Opinions vary. Some (like me) feel the stock tubes are mediocre, holding the amp back. Others disagree.

I think most folks seem to agree that tube rolls can move the sound. Disagreement is mostly about whether the differences are ‘improvements’.


----------



## MisterMoJo

Thinking about buying this amp.  I already have some tubes that should work, tubes I bought for my original Lyr.  I would be pairing it with a yggy and some LCD 2 r2's.  Want to go fully balanced.


----------



## cobrabucket

MisterMoJo said:


> Thinking about buying this amp.  I already have some tubes that should work, tubes I bought for my original Lyr.  I would be pairing it with a yggy and some LCD 2 r2's.  Want to go fully balanced.


I really enjoy my LCD-2 rev1 with the LP!


----------



## Wes S (Jan 20, 2020)

MisterMoJo said:


> Are the stock tubes any good?  Or is tube rolling a must for this amp?


I would read through this thread, as lots has been said, about this subject.

However,  I agree with @LCMusicLover.


----------



## KG Jag (Jan 20, 2020)

I hear the stock tubes as quite good, but they are not best you can do with this amp.  Exactly what works best for you will also depend on your can(s) and sound signature preferences.

All that said--this not a tube rolling amp.  This is not the Liquid Glass.  What seems best to me is to settle on a pair of tubes that work best for you.  You may also have another set of tubes that works best with another can, etc. 

The big problem for most people is that the only way to hear for yourself is to buy the tubes and plug them in.  On top of that new tubes require a significant time to properly burn in.  This is why reading the thread discussing the various tubes folks have tried with the amp is of great value.  It greatly increases your odds of getting a pair (or two) of tubes that will scratch your itch and scale up the amp for your preferences and other equipment.


----------



## MisterMoJo

I bit the bullet and bought this amp.  Hoping it ships today and arrives tomorrow.  They have printed the shipping label, but the package is not in the system yet at FedEx.  I bought some balanced cables to go with, but the headphone ones may take a little while to get here.  Looking forward to hearing this.


----------



## Wes S

MisterMoJo said:


> I bit the bullet and bought this amp.  Hoping it ships today and arrives tomorrow.  They have printed the shipping label, but the package is not in the system yet at FedEx.  I bought some balanced cables to go with, but the headphone ones may take a little while to get here.  Looking forward to hearing this.


Congrats on your purchase, and welcome to the club!   Curious what DAC and headphones, you plan to pair with the amp?


----------



## MisterMoJo

Wes S said:


> Congrats on your purchase, and welcome to the club!   Curious what DAC and headphones, you plan to pair with the amp?


Thanks!  I will use my Audeze LCD 2 r2 headphones and my Yggy Dac (Gen 5 usb and Analog 2).  All fed by my computer running windows 10 and JRiver 26.  I plan to go fully balanced from the Dac all the way to the headphones when the cables arrive.  Right now I am using a Schiit Lyr amp with some Amperex tubes in it.  I think I might try these tubes in the new amp, too.  But I will keep the stock tubes in for a while to see how I like them after they break in.


----------



## kumar402

MisterMoJo said:


> Thanks!  I will use my Audeze LCD 2 r2 headphones and my Yggy Dac (Gen 5 usb and Analog 2).  All fed by my computer running windows 10 and JRiver 26.  I plan to go fully balanced from the Dac all the way to the headphones when the cables arrive.  Right now I am using a Schiit Lyr amp with some Amperex tubes in it.  I think I might try these tubes in the new amp, too.  But I will keep the stock tubes in for a while to see how I like them after they break in.


You may need a preamp. Not sure how efficient is LCD2 but the amp has little high gain that can limit the movement of volume pot.


----------



## LCMusicLover

kumar402 said:


> You may need a preamp. Not sure how efficient is LCD2 but the amp has little high gain that can limit the movement of volume pot.


This is true.  Yggy output voltage (balanced ouput) combined with fairly sensitive headphones will leave you with very little play on the volume knob.  My Utopia are 104 dB sensitivity and 80 Ohms impedance.  The LCD-2 spec says 70 Ohms and 101 dB.  So they're going to be pretty close to what I experienced with my Utopia and, for me, it was pretty close to unusable.  The 'zero' stop is about 7:00 on the knob, and I couldn't listen much past 9:00.  10:00 would have been damaging.

I use a preamp to make the gain more manageable (and also for source selection, remote volume, driving 2 amps).


----------



## LCMusicLover

LCMusicLover said:


> ...’Which cans do you like better (or as well) from your LP than from your DSHA-3F?'...


I started writing a very detailed msg about this, but, instead...

tl;dr: Difference is pretty small, especially given the price difference and difference in technology (SS vs tube-hybrid). All my cans sound great from either amp, although they do all change character from one amp to the other.

Across cans, LP produces a fuller/thicker sound with less detail and speed. 3F has a more open/airy headstage along with detail/speed. Bass is very good from both, with LP getting a slight nod for ‘more’ while 3F wins ‘cleaner’. All that said, the differences are somewhere between small & tiny. We’re clearly way far along the diminishing returns curve here. I guess the small differences shouldn’t surprise — both have similar very low OI, and both are powerful enough to drive all my cans with ease and lots of headroom to spare. Also, LP is designed to work best via balanced out, and 3F only has balanced out.

_Auteur_: Either/or. As predicted, love them from both amps. Notable differences, but not really ‘better’ from 3F.
_Ether 2_: Probably the biggest 3F win, which surprised me. I didn’t care for E2 from LP/stock tubes — seemed a little lifeless, and the headstage seemed flat/2d. Tube upgrades really helped both of those aspects. 3F takes both those aspects further and also helps the bass feel a bit ‘firmer’ without sacrificing quality.
_Utopia_: Slightly leaning towards 3F. More open headstage from 3F. A bit bassier from LP. LP steals a little detail and energy while 3F preserves all the ‘Utopianess’ while still reducing the ‘sharpness’ I’ve heard from Utopia paired with other amps.
_HEKv2_: Either/or, although pretty big differences. To my ears HEK sounds very detailed, linear/reference, but can seem a bit ‘thin’. Those characteristics shine from the 3F, while LP ‘thickens up’ the sound some, while (again) stealing a bit of detail. Pretty noticeable difference.
_RAD-0_: Either/or, with the smallest difference.
_HD-6xx_: 3F lifts the veil further. I never got  the 650 hype until I paired them with the LP. The LP/6xx pairing really opened my ears to what folks love about them. That said, 6xx are better with the 3F — cleaner treble rather than more treble. Also opens the headstage up, makes imaging more precise and helps busy passages seem less muddled.

All testing was:

A2 Gumby ==> Hattor mini passive preamp ==> amps ==> cans

All analog connections were balanced.

LP  was paired with Siemens NOS CCa tubes while the 3F had the Amorphous transformers. I took that approach to maximize the difference between the amps. LP/Brimar CV-2492 tubes compared to 3F w/ nickel transformers would have made this difficult task even harder.


----------



## Wes S

Looks like a few guys beat me to it, with why I asked what headphones and DAC. 

I am in the same boat, but don't use a preamp at the moment, and the amp is totally usable it just takes a little extra effort to set the volume, with very little room for adjustment.  From 7 to 10 leaves me plenty of room to work with, however I do plan to add a passive preamp eventually to make things easier.

My main headphone used with my LP is the ZMF Ori, which is one of the harder to drive headphones that love power.  I can get all the way to 11:30 on the dial with those cans, and don't see a need for a preamp, if I was only using those cans.  However, my ZMF Aeolus are quite a bit easier to drive, and I plan to use them with the LP more often and that's why I plan to add the preamp, eventually.

Another thing to note, is that I am using 6dj8/ecc88 tubes, and they seem to give me better range on the pot, compared to some other tubes I tried like the Amperex 7308.  I don't really know why, this was the case?


----------



## MisterMoJo

Thanks to everyone for the heads up!  Any suggestions on a balanced passive preamp I could use?


----------



## Wes S (Jan 22, 2020)

MisterMoJo said:


> Thanks to everyone for the heads up!  Any suggestions on a balanced passive preamp I could use?


I have heard great things about the Goldpoint SAX1, and this is the one I am going to buy eventually.  One of the best equipment testers around,@atomicbob uses a Goldpoint.


----------



## CreditingKarma

Wes S said:


> I have heard great things about the Goldpoint SAX1, and this is the one I am going to buy eventually.  One of the best equipment testers around,@atomicbob uses a Goldpoint.




I currently use the preamp on my Bartok with the liquid platinum.when I use it with my clears. It is very transparent and gives great range with the volume control on the liquid platinum. I try to run the liquid platinum a bit over 50% volume and use the bartok to attenuate as needed. As a plus the bartok volume can be controlled in roon.


----------



## MisterMoJo

Wes S said:


> I have heard great things about the Goldpoint SAX1, and this is the one I am going to buy eventually.  One of the best equipment testers around,@atomicbob uses a Goldpoint.





CreditingKarma said:


> I currently use the preamp on my Bartok with the liquid platinum.when I use it with my clears. It is very transparent and gives great range with the volume control on the liquid platinum. I try to run the liquid platinum a bit over 50% volume and use the bartok to attenuate as needed. As a plus the bartok volume can be controlled in roon.



Thanks people!!


----------



## Wes S

CreditingKarma said:


> I currently use the preamp on my Bartok with the liquid platinum.when I use it with my clears. It is very transparent and gives great range with the volume control on the liquid platinum. I try to run the liquid platinum a bit over 50% volume and use the bartok to attenuate as needed. As a plus the bartok volume can be controlled in roon.


Nice, when you have that control from your DAC.  The Bartok, is quite a bit out of my price range, but I bet that sounds killer with the LP.


----------



## LCMusicLover

MisterMoJo said:


> Thanks to everyone for the heads up!  Any suggestions on a balanced passive preamp I could use?


I’ve been very happy with my Hattor mini. 3 inputs, 2 outputs w/ remote input selection and volume control. You can order it with any combination of SE & balanced ins and outs. Mine has 2 balanced inputs & 1 SE, and 2 balanced outs. Run my LP & my DSHA-3F simultaneously. 

 I had been using an Emotiva, which I liked, but I didn’t care for the bit of color it added when I moved to the LP. It was a pretty small effect, but I prefer a (very) neutral/reference sound. I’m very happy w/ the Hattor — really can’t tell it’s there. I looked at the Goldpoint (and a few others) but given the configuration I wanted, Hattor seemed like the best value. The same guy makes the Khozmo line, which also seemed appealing.

Gotta get around to selling the Emotiva ... along with a bunch of other stuff.


----------



## cobrabucket

I like the Little Bear MC2.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nobsound-L...420839&hash=item3faa6fca0e:g:I5gAAOSwn4Vbjsj~


----------



## LCMusicLover

cobrabucket said:


> I like the Little Bear MC2.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nobsound-L...420839&hash=item3faa6fca0e:g:I5gAAOSwn4Vbjsj~


Oh sure! Rub it in that I paid $750 for some additional I/O and a remote 

JK, cheers!


----------



## MisterMoJo

LCMusicLover said:


> I’ve been very happy with my Hattor mini. 3 inputs, 2 outputs w/ remote input selection and volume control. You can order it with any combination of SE & balanced ins and outs. Mine has 2 balanced inputs & 1 SE, and 2 balanced outs. Run my LP & my DSHA-3F simultaneously.
> 
> I had been using an Emotiva, which I liked, but I didn’t care for the bit of color it added when I moved to the LP. It was a pretty small effect, but I prefer a (very) neutral/reference sound. I’m very happy w/ the Hattor — really can’t tell it’s there. I looked at the Goldpoint (and a few others) but given the configuration I wanted, Hattor seemed like the best value. The same guy makes the Khozmo line, which also seemed appealing.
> 
> Gotta get around to selling the Emotiva ... along with a bunch of other stuff.





cobrabucket said:


> I like the Little Bear MC2.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nobsound-L...420839&hash=item3faa6fca0e:g:I5gAAOSwn4Vbjsj~


Great stuff!


----------



## MisterMoJo

LP in tha house!


----------



## Wes S

MisterMoJo said:


> LP in tha house!


Fun times ahead!  Definitely let that baby burn in for a good 50 to 60 hours, and things should really open up.  I can remember how awesome it was hearing the LP for the first time, coming from a Lyr 3.   The music became so real sounding, that I shed a few tears.  The thing that really jumped out at me, was the forward and intimate vocals.  The mids on the LP are magical.


----------



## MisterMoJo

I literally have to let it warm up first.  It was delivered in a block of ice.  I had to chip it away to get at the amp.  Not really.  But I want it at room temperature.  I have tubes with an old pair of socket savers from my Lyr installed already.  I get my balanced headphone cable Friday and I don't think I want to listen to it unbalanced.  The instruction manual says don't even bother running unbalanced.  I am hoping the volume thing won't be too much of a problem....


----------



## atomicbob

MisterMoJo said:


> Are the stock tubes any good?  Or is tube rolling a must for this amp?


Liquid Platinum is a very transparent hybrid amp. Please see the measurements here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monoprice-cavalli-liquid-platinum-technical-measurements.894843/

The current supplied SMPS, which is exceptionally low noise, works bests with the LP. The supplied tubes are also worth spending listening time before heading off for tube rolling land. Often the listener is treated to hearing how the upstream components really sound for the first time and immediately blame the LP. That is the price of transparency. Listen and become familiar with the stock setup first. As has been suggested spend a fair amount of time reading other experiences but be careful. Everyone has personal preferences. The trick is triangulating among the descriptions to find those that may be most useful to you.


----------



## MisterMoJo (Jan 22, 2020)

atomicbob said:


> Liquid Platinum is a very transparent hybrid amp. Please see the measurements here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monoprice-cavalli-liquid-platinum-technical-measurements.894843/
> 
> The current supplied SMPS, which is exceptionally low noise, works bests with the LP. The supplied tubes are also worth spending listening time before heading off for tube rolling land. Often the listener is treated to hearing how the upstream components really sound for the first time and immediately blame the LP. That is the price of transparency. Listen and become familiar with the stock setup first. As has been suggested spend a fair amount of time reading other experiences but be careful. Everyone has personal preferences. The trick is triangulating among the descriptions to find those that may be most useful to you.


SMPS?
edit: nevermind I see what it is.


----------



## chaz_flhr

Has anyone tried  aeon 2 closed or Audeze LCD-2 Closed Back with the LP?
Has anyone tried the topping D90 DAC with this amp? 
All those are on my list, any impressions would be appreciated.


----------



## shafat777 (Jan 24, 2020)

^^

I am currently using a Topping D70s with my LP with my Aeon 2 Closed. From what i can tell, These are a match made in heaven. My aeons open up a lot (both high and low end) once I rolled a set of Sylavania 6922 tubes from the 70s. The highs are really detailed and precise. I would go as far and say that When it comes to detail retrieval, the LP beats my THX 779 and 887 amps, but thats to expect since those are neutral, blank amps. I dont own a LCD 2 closed but I do have a LCD-x. Just like my aeon 2s, the lcd x's high end opened up a lot compared to my 887. Please bear in my that I am just a guy who loves to listen to different headphones and not an audiophile by any means. With that being said, I would say that the aforementioned headphones sound crisp (crisper) on my LP while the bass and low/mid low has some added punch. I am currently in the process of rolling some more tubes so i ll be able to describe more.

Hope this help. I am new here so please feel free to ask way any question you might have

Best


----------



## MisterMoJo

I ran into an issue.  But I think I got a good solution.  The yggy was putting out too much power into the LP from the balanced outs.  It was causing clipping.  The sound was bad.  Unbalanced out of the yggy was fine.  It says on the Schiit website the yggy puts out 2 volts from the unbalanced and 4 volts from the balanced.  I guess I don't know if the culprit was the yggy or the volume levels in the computer, but setting up a Parametric equalizer in JRiver lowering the volume was the solution.  Seems to be working fine now.  Just wanted to see what people thought of this.  And to hopefully help someone out in the future.  And maybe see if anyone has a better solution?  I suppose this is why people use volume control before the amp?  Or is that a different issue?  For the record, I find the play in the volume control a non issue for me.  I am getting the same amount of "play" as I did with the Lyr.


----------



## kumar402

Wes S said:


> I have heard great things about the Goldpoint SAX1, and this is the one I am going to buy eventually.  One of the best equipment testers around,@atomicbob uses a Goldpoint.


they are the most transparent, little pricey though. 
Get one with 2 output for future proofing


----------



## LCMusicLover

MisterMoJo said:


> I ran into an issue.  But I think I got a good solution.  The yggy was putting out too much power into the LP from the balanced outs.  It was causing clipping.  The sound was bad.  Unbalanced out of the yggy was fine.  It says on the Schiit website the yggy puts out 2 volts from the unbalanced and 4 volts from the balanced.  I guess I don't know if the culprit was the yggy or the volume levels in the computer, but setting up a Parametric equalizer in JRiver lowering the volume was the solution.  Seems to be working fine now.  Just wanted to see what people thought of this.  And to hopefully help someone out in the future.  And maybe see if anyone has a better solution?  I suppose this is why people use volume control before the amp?  Or is that a different issue?  For the record, I find the play in the volume control a non issue for me.  I am getting the same amount of "play" as I did with the Lyr.


Doesn’t sound right. I’ve been using LP w/ my A2 Gumby & Denafrips Pontus, both of which put out about the same voltage. Never had clipping problems when the DACs were directly connected to my LP. Volume was quite high, so I had to turn the amp way down, but as loud as I could listen, there was no clipping.


----------



## MisterMoJo (Jan 25, 2020)

LCMusicLover said:


> Doesn’t sound right. I’ve been using LP w/ my A2 Gumby & Denafrips Pontus, both of which put out about the same voltage. Never had clipping problems when the DACs were directly connected to my LP. Volume was quite high, so I had to turn the amp way down, but as loud as I could listen, there was no clipping.


Were you using the Singxer?
edit: nevermind didn't read carefully enough.
second edit: balanced or unbalanced?


----------



## kumar402

MisterMoJo said:


> I ran into an issue.  But I think I got a good solution.  The yggy was putting out too much power into the LP from the balanced outs.  It was causing clipping.  The sound was bad.  Unbalanced out of the yggy was fine.  It says on the Schiit website the yggy puts out 2 volts from the unbalanced and 4 volts from the balanced.  I guess I don't know if the culprit was the yggy or the volume levels in the computer, but setting up a Parametric equalizer in JRiver lowering the volume was the solution.  Seems to be working fine now.  Just wanted to see what people thought of this.  And to hopefully help someone out in the future.  And maybe see if anyone has a better solution?  I suppose this is why people use volume control before the amp?  Or is that a different issue?  For the record, I find the play in the volume control a non issue for me.  I am getting the same amount of "play" as I did with the Lyr.


never had clipping with balanced out. Are you using EQ? and have have bass or something bumped up? in that case you may have clipping


----------



## MisterMoJo (Jan 25, 2020)

kumar402 said:


> never had clipping with balanced out. Are you using EQ? and have have bass or something bumped up? in that case you may have clipping


No I just have the DSP set to downmix everything to 2 channels.  But it does not read active when playing 2 channel material, which is what I mostly listen to.
edit: oh and dsp to change higher bitrates to lower ones for the yggy to read.  For example: Jriver automatically converts dsd to pcm at a much higher rate than yggy can accept.  So those higher ones are set to convert to lower.  192 is the limit.


----------



## MisterMoJo

I turned all that stuff off and am listening to see if that was the problem.


----------



## kumar402

MisterMoJo said:


> I turned all that stuff off and am listening to see if that was the problem.


ya try without any outside DSP and see


----------



## MisterMoJo (Jan 25, 2020)

I dunno.  It sounds better with that stuff turned off.  But JRiver is still doing something as the input path and output path are not the same under "audio path".  Input is, for example 16 bits, and output reads 24 bits.  Tells me there is still some processing going on...
edit: got a response in the JRiver forums already, saying this is standard behavior.  It is just padding with zeros.


----------



## LCMusicLover

MisterMoJo said:


> Were you using the Singxer?
> edit: nevermind didn't read carefully enough.
> second edit: balanced or unbalanced?


Always balanced, DAC ==> preamp (when used) ==> amp ==> cans

yes, always using Singxer to drive both DACs simultaneously.


----------



## CreditingKarma

I am comparing the LP with the Formula S and powerman combo. I might be crazy but I find the LP to be just about as transparent as the Formula S. The formula does have a slightly larger stage. They are both being feed from the Bartok. I am now liking the LP more than the headphone section on the TT2 that I had it was abit too dry with the Abyss. 

Has anyone else compared the LP and Formula before? I know they are in different price ranges but I feel like they are similar in many ways. Am i crazy for thinking this. 

I also had a chance to listen to the Traformatic Primavera. That was a mistake it was incredible. I am trying to forget how it sounded. I can't afford that amp.


----------



## Wes S

CreditingKarma said:


> I am comparing the LP with the Formula S and powerman combo. I might be crazy but I find the LP to be just about as transparent as the Formula S. The formula does have a slightly larger stage. They are both being feed from the Bartok. I am now liking the LP more than the headphone section on the TT2 that I had it was abit too dry with the Abyss.
> 
> Has anyone else compared the LP and Formula before? I know they are in different price ranges but I feel like they are similar in many ways. Am i crazy for thinking this.
> 
> I also had a chance to listen to the Traformatic Primavera. That was a mistake it was incredible. I am trying to forget how it sounded. I can't afford that amp.


I have not heard that other amp, but if you read a few pages back, you can find @atomicbob's measurements of the LP, and you will see how well it performs in testing.  So not too surprising when hooked up to a good DAC, that the LP sings.


----------



## chaz_flhr

shafat777 said:


> ^^
> 
> I am currently using a Topping D70s with my LP with my Aeon 2 Closed. From what i can tell, These are a match made in heaven. My aeons open up a lot (both high and low end) once I rolled a set of Sylavania 6922 tubes from the 70s. The highs are really detailed and precise. I would go as far and say that When it comes to detail retrieval, the LP beats my THX 779 and 887 amps, but thats to expect since those are neutral, blank amps. I dont own a LCD 2 closed but I do have a LCD-x. Just like my aeon 2s, the lcd x's high end opened up a lot compared to my 887. Please bear in my that I am just a guy who loves to listen to different headphones and not an audiophile by any means. With that being said, I would say that the aforementioned headphones sound crisp (crisper) on my LP while the bass and low/mid low has some added punch. I am currently in the process of rolling some more tubes so i ll be able to describe more.
> 
> ...


Thanks, so far I'm enjoying this amp but definitely need to up my dac game, I  have some bugle boy d getter 58 tubes to try 
Before I try the aeon 2s or the LCD 2c.


----------



## chaz_flhr

shafat777 said:


> ^^
> 
> I am currently using a Topping D70s with my LP with my Aeon 2 Closed. From what i can tell, These are a match made in heaven. My aeons open up a lot (both high and low end) once I rolled a set of Sylavania 6922 tubes from the 70s. The highs are really detailed and precise. I would go as far and say that When it comes to detail retrieval, the LP beats my THX 779 and 887 amps, but thats to expect since those are neutral, blank amps. I dont own a LCD 2 closed but I do have a LCD-x. Just like my aeon 2s, the lcd x's high end opened up a lot compared to my 887. Please bear in my that I am just a guy who loves to listen to different headphones and not an audiophile by any means. With that being said, I would say that the aforementioned headphones sound crisp (crisper) on my LP while the bass and low/mid low has some added punch. I am currently in the process of rolling some more tubes so i ll be able to describe more.
> 
> ...


What is your opinion of topping I am looking at picking up the d90 MQA when it is released. For a cheap and portable stopgap I found a cheap LG v30 I am going to use as my source and dac till the d90 arrives. I will have to compare it to my IFI ione


----------



## shafat777

Topping d70 or D90 would be an excellent compliment to your LP. These dacs are definitely clean and provide great audio for any balanced or unbalanced amp. I have only used Topping dacs (D50, DX7s and now the D70) and I love it. If you can manage a pair of balanced xlr cables to connect with your LP, then I believe you ll be a happy camper. I think Topping dacs run better when they are used as balanced (personal opinion). 

I honestly dont know any perceivable difference between D70 and D90 so if you want to save a few bucks, you can opt for the d70 and call it a day. But thats up to you. I will be sticking with my D70 for the foreseeable future. 

Best


----------



## sahmen (Feb 29, 2020)

I wonder whether anyone knows much about the performance of these Mini-Mullards that have suddenly showed up at Tubemongers, and can provide impressions :

https://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_CV3986_6021_1975_Mitcham_E88CC_SUB_NOS_p/ex-6021m.htm







Name in full:
Mullard CV3986 6021 - 1975 MINT NOS NIB Mitcham Special Grade Plug&Play for ECC88/E88CC/6922/E188CC/7308 NOVIB-ULTRA©


----------



## Shane D

Hello. I have been getting very curious about tube sound over the last year. I have low impedance headphones so I decided to try hybrids:

1) I thought the Loxjie P20 was junk.

2) The Vali 2 is a nice sounding amp, but sound in no way tubey, to me.

3) I then bought an XDuoo TA-20. Not as clear as the Vali 2, but balanced option is nice.

The Liquid Platinum is a big step up from these three, but it is still a hybrid. Will it sound a lot different from my SS amps and cheap hybrids?

I currently have four SS amps and two hybrids and am looking for a different sound.

I have narrowed my selection of low impedance tube amps down to Hagerman Tuba or MAD Ear+ HDII. 
But I do love the Cavalli sound. I have the LS and the LCX already.

Which will be "tubier"?


----------



## stimuz

Shane D said:


> Hello. I have been getting very curious about tube sound over the last year. I have low impedance headphones so I decided to try hybrids:
> 
> 1) I thought the Loxjie P20 was junk.
> 
> ...



what kind of music do you listen to? I'd avoid tube sound for anything with subbass.


----------



## Shane D

stimuz said:


> what kind of music do you listen to? I'd avoid tube sound for anything with subbass.



Rock, Blues and horn jazz.


----------



## SilverEars (Mar 1, 2020)

Shane D said:


> Hello. I have been getting very curious about tube sound over the last year. I have low impedance headphones so I decided to try hybrids:
> 
> 1) I thought the Loxjie P20 was junk.
> 
> ...


Once I tried LP, I realized I like well implemented Cavalli sound.  I also realized his circuit designs are created for good taste in sound if that makes sense.  A good design I find is a sound that is seemingly detailed or has the technical resolvability without sounding clinical.  I'm afraid a lot of solid-state designs suffer this.

Like any designs, it takes work and effort to realize a good taste.  It doesn't get handed on a chip.

Also, I'm not sure what is a real tuby sound or you are referring to.  Is a real tubey sound desireable?  If you listened to Eddie Current tube amps, they don't have stereotypical 'tubey' qualities, but are very technically sounding amps with qualities that a solid-state can have.

So, the question would be what is this tubeyness desired, and is this ultimately desireable for the sound outcome?

I personally like precision in the sound, so a realy tubeyness is likely a no no.  I do not want warm, thick slow goeyness in sound, but high resolve, fast, with non-clinical musicalness with tubes or SS.

As far as LP sound I notice, it's thicker and meatier in the mids than neutral, also has good technicalities to sound detailed.  It's likely more of a complementary to leaner sounding headphones than already thick.  Ultimately about preference in how meaty you like your sound.


----------



## Shane D

SilverEars said:


> Once I tried LP, I realized I like well implemented Cavalli sound.  I also realized his circuit designs are created for good taste in sound if that makes sense.  A good design I find is a sound that is seemingly detailed or has the technical resolvability without sounding clinical.  I'm afraid a lot of solid-state designs suffer this.
> 
> Like any designs, it takes work and effort to realize a good taste.  It doesn't get handed on a chip.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the detailed reply. I have never heard a tube amp in person, so my expectations are based on descriptions I have read and heard over the years.

I like warm, fun amps so I guess I am just looking for a different version of that. I recently bought an SMSL SP200 THX amp just out of curiosity. It is definitely ice cold and interesting in that it SO different from my other amps.

My experience with hybrids has been very underwhelming so far. But I really do like the Cavalli sound and wonder if it would differ enough from my LS and LCX.

I know that a hybrid would play nicely with my low impedance 'phones (Grado, Fostex, Beyer and Focal Elex's).

I do want a "meaty" sound. Golden vocals and a solid bass. As I sit in my lazy boy right now I am listening to Christone "Kingfish" Ingram via Sony DAP to SMSL SU-8 to LCX and it sounds pretty damn good!

Just looking for a different take.


----------



## Zachik

I have had this amp for quite some time (shortly after it came out), and the main (only?) complaint I have is the gain. 
There is no gain switch, and the gain is pretty high, so much so that on most headphones, including 300 Ohms (translate: not too sensitive) - volume knob has very little usable range before it gets too LOUD...

So, I was wondering, since I do not recall seeing any mention:
*Anyone aware (or tried) a mod for lowering the gain, or adding a gain switch?*


----------



## LCMusicLover

The crazy part is, when I first tested it with my HE-6se, I discovered that 'throttle all the way open' is about 3 o'clock on the volume knob.  Seems like a mis-match somewhere.


----------



## Odin412

Zachik said:


> *Anyone aware (or tried) a mod for lowering the gain, or adding a gain switch?*



I agree that the gain of this amp is a bit high so I use a Schiit SYS between my DAC and the amp, which works well. (Actually, the chain is Bifrost Multibit - SYS - distribution amp - Liquid Platinum + other amps.)


----------



## LCMusicLover

Odin412 said:


> I agree that the gain of this amp is a bit high so I use a Schiit SYS between my DAC and the amp, which works well. (Actually, the chain is Bifrost Multibit - SYS - distribution amp - Liquid Platinum + other amps.)


Yep, attenuation is necessary with all my cans except HE-6se, including HEKv2, which are next most demanding. I have a balanced passive pre-amp.  Besides attenuation, it also gives me remote volume control and source-switching.


----------



## kumar402

Zachik said:


> I have had this amp for quite some time (shortly after it came out), and the main (only?) complaint I have is the gain.
> There is no gain switch, and the gain is pretty high, so much so that on most headphones, including 300 Ohms (translate: not too sensitive) - volume knob has very little usable range before it gets too LOUD...
> 
> So, I was wondering, since I do not recall seeing any mention:
> *Anyone aware (or tried) a mod for lowering the gain, or adding a gain switch?*


Ended up getting a preamp. For all my headphone the gain was too much and had no option but to get a preamp.


----------



## Zachik

Thanks guys - I do have a small passive preamp, but was wondering whether a little gain switch might be a more elegant solution...


----------



## Tacanacy

It costs $627.42 right now at Monoprice: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=33305


----------



## deuter

Odin412 said:


> I have both and IMHO they are quite different. The WA6 (I have the original, not the current V2) is a very lush-sounding tube amp and tube rolling can change the sound quite a bit. The LP has the trademark liquid Cavalli midrange but is more neutral-sounding to my ears.


I agree, used to have the SE version and now have the LP. To my ears the WA6 is a little laid back smooth sounding whereas the LP is very dynamic with holographic soundstage.


----------



## deuter

The LP with the Ampherex tubes is so detailed and 3D with the Abyss 1266. I don't miss listening to my vinyl rig, tells me digital can be nice too if done well.

For $670 this amp is a real steal!

I'am hoping to further tweak the sound by replacing by Sabre DAC with either R2R or a tube stage DAC.
I have tried a few amps with the Abyss and so far this blows the rest.

One thing I would like to suggest to Mr. Cavalli, Please do not reduce the GAIN on your future amps, I need the high gain as most top tier headphones such as the Abyss are very difficult to drive.


----------



## CreditingKarma

deuter said:


> The LP with the Ampherex tubes is so detailed and 3D with the Abyss 1266. I don't miss listening to my vinyl rig, tells me digital can be nice too if done well.
> 
> For $670 this amp is a real steal!
> 
> ...



Have you tried the xiaudio Formula S? I am auditioning one and trying to determine if it is worth the increased price over the Liquid Platinum. The 1266 TC is outstanding I love mine.


----------



## deuter

CreditingKarma said:


> Have you tried the xiaudio Formula S? I am auditioning one and trying to determine if it is worth the increased price over the Liquid Platinum. The 1266 TC is outstanding I love mine.


I had it on my list to try but the fact that it’s not balanced puts me off. Also I cannot somehow justify the price for an amp that looks so DIY.

I know they say it’s all about sound but I see quite a few of those come up for sale often.
Tells me it’s a fantastic amp not necessarily the top one.
If you read through the thread someone compared it to the formula and preferred the LP.


----------



## JWahl (Mar 8, 2020)

I recently bought a LP that I’ve been using for a few days now.   I’ve been using a Headamp Gilmore Lite Mk. 2 since last July and have been quite satisfied with it.  I’ve wanted to try the LP for awhile but couldn’t  justify  on a tighter budget and didn’t want to sell the G-Lite.  I saw a used/return model on Amazon for a nice discount and impulse bought it.  So whoever is abusing Amazon’s return policy to try these, my wallet thanks you!

So far I’m only using it single-ended with an HD-650 and with either a Grace M9xx or iFi Micro iDSD (mostly the Grace). I’ve owned more expensive gear in the past but have scaled down quite a bit over the last few years.

Early impressions are positive. Ample power is a given but what really struck me right away relative to the GLite are two things: The expansiveness of the sound and the micro-dynamic rendering. I can’t complain at the price but if I had to nitpick, the expansiveness can seem a bit hard-panned without as much depth at times. It also seems like I have to crank the volume to really flesh things out and then it can become slightly fatiguing. There’s definitely more wow factor involved, though I would consider the GLite to have a more well rounded and integrated sound that works equally well for any genre. I’d like to keep both for their respective qualities.

FWIW, I will be getting a balanced cable for the 650, and am hoping to soon upgrade my DAC to an RME ADI-2 DAC. I also really like the chassis design. Like others, I think it looks much better in person than the pictures.


----------



## deuter

JWahl said:


> I recently bought a LP that I’ve been using for a few days now.   I’ve been using a Headamp Gilmore Lite Mk. 2 since last July and have been quite satisfied with it.  I’ve wanted to try the LP for awhile but couldn’t  justify  on a tighter budget and didn’t want to sell the G-Lite.  I saw a used/return model on Amazon for a nice discount and impulse bought it.  So whoever is abusing Amazon’s return policy to try these, my wallet thanks you!
> 
> So far I’m only using it single-ended with an HD-650 and with either a Grace M9xx or iFi Micro iDSD (mostly the Grace). I’ve owned more expensive gear in the past but have scaled down quite a bit over the last few years.
> 
> ...


The RME DAC seems to me something everyone is talking quiet a lot about, what entices you with it?


----------



## Ham Sandwich

JWahl said:


> I recently bought a LP that I’ve been using for a few days now.   I’ve been using a Headamp Gilmore Lite Mk. 2 since last July and have been quite satisfied with it.  I’ve wanted to try the LP for awhile but couldn’t  justify  on a tighter budget and didn’t want to sell the G-Lite.  I saw a used/return model on Amazon for a nice discount and impulse bought it.  So whoever is abusing Amazon’s return policy to try these, my wallet thanks you!
> 
> So far I’m only using it single-ended with an HD-650 and with either a Grace M9xx or iFi Micro iDSD (mostly the Grace). I’ve owned more expensive gear in the past but have scaled down quite a bit over the last few years.
> 
> ...



Don't compare the LP too much against other amps till you get a balanced headphone cable. The balanced headphone output is much better than the single ended headphone output. The balanced output is not just more power. It is better sound qualities.


----------



## Wes S

Ham Sandwich said:


> Don't compare the LP too much against other amps till you get a balanced headphone cable. The balanced headphone output is much better than the single ended headphone output. The balanced output is not just more power. It is better sound qualities.


I Agree.


----------



## JWahl

deuter said:


> The RME DAC seems to me something everyone is talking quiet a lot about, what entices you with it?



A few things.  It's been universally praised by a diverse crowd and compared favorably to the Chord Qutest which I've owned. It also objectively measures very well.  It's reasonably priced for what it is and is physically compact.  I also like that it has a boatload of usable features like the EQ, volume control, and others. I was originally going to get a Bifrost 2 since I've owned both the Yggdrasil and Gungnir MB, but the features of the RME are really a big selling point for me.  I've owned much more expensive equipment in the past but now I'm focusing on attempting to upgrade while maximizing my perceived value for money.



Ham Sandwich said:


> Don't compare the LP too much against other amps till you get a balanced headphone cable. The balanced headphone output is much better than the single ended headphone output. The balanced output is not just more power. It is better sound qualities.



I'm looking forward to it.  My point is that I'm already impressed even in a fully single-ended chain.  It has also been stated here that the LP scales well with better sources which is reassuring.  I've used a balanced cable with the HD800 out of a Trafomatic Head 2 with Schiit Yggdrasil, but it wasn't a huge difference.  The Trafomatic wasn't fully balanced though, just transformer-balanced output.  This would be my first fully-balanced setup once it's complete.


----------



## deuter

JWahl said:


> A few things.  It's been universally praised by a diverse crowd and compared favorably to the Chord Qutest which I've owned. It also objectively measures very well.  It's reasonably priced for what it is and is physically compact.  I also like that it has a boatload of usable features like the EQ, volume control, and others. I was originally going to get a Bifrost 2 since I've owned both the Yggdrasil and Gungnir MB, but the features of the RME are really a big selling point for me.  I've owned much more expensive equipment in the past but now I'm focusing on attempting to upgrade while maximizing my perceived value for money.


I like the phrase “ perceived value”
The Quetest I would have thought to be not up there with the RME?
I was hoping the RME  was on par with DACs like Denafrips Terminator, PS Audio Directstream etc


----------



## JWahl (Mar 8, 2020)

deuter said:


> I like the phrase “ perceived value”
> The Quetest I would have thought to be not up there with the RME?
> I was hoping the RME  was on par with DACs like Denafrips Terminator, PS Audio Directstream etc



Yes, I used that phrase deliberately because the absolute maximum value-for-money in this hobby is found around the $100 level.  Everything else is diminishing returns from there.  I downgraded from the Qutest because the difference between it and a laptop's line-out wasn't sufficient enough for me to justify keeping it; at least for how I value my money.  It was still really good (relative to the context of DACs in general) and is amazing for what it does in such a small footprint relative to say, the larger Schiit DACs.

What I'm hoping to achieve now is to find equipment that's just right at the "bend" where it's deep into high-performance territory and where diminishing returns take a serious cliff dive.  In other words, having to spend multiples of the price to achieve incremental improvements.  I'm already feeling like the Liquid Platinum fits that description, and I'm hoping the RME fills the same spot.  Of course, where that "bend" in the value curve lies is going to be relative for each person.


----------



## deuter

I read about the synergy of the LP with certain DACs a few threads prior , wanted to know more about what DAC everyone is using and what has been your experience so far.


----------



## CreditingKarma

deuter said:


> I read about the synergy of the LP with certain DACs a few threads prior , wanted to know more about what DAC everyone is using and what has been your experience so far.


 

At first I was using the Metrum Onyx and this pairing was great. The sound was very full. Then I had the TT2 and my LP was not used. I now have the dCS Bartok. This pairing is simply incredible. Granted this is most likely not a common pairing. I enjoyed the LP more than the amp in the Bartok so I got a unit with no headphone amp. I am using it with my abyss so that might influence my taste. The LP brought more power to the table.

The combo of the Bartok and LP is intoxicating. It is not overly smooth or bright. There is really good bass impact the best I have heard with the LP and the stage has opened up. The imaging is really good. 

I just got a new pair of gold lions that I am trying out too. I will give feed back after 100 hours of burn in.


----------



## deuter

CreditingKarma said:


> At first I was using the Metrum Onyx and this pairing was great. The sound was very full. Then I had the TT2 and my LP was not used. I now have the dCS Bartok. This pairing is simply incredible. Granted this is most likely not a common pairing. I enjoyed the LP more than the amp in the Bartok so I got a unit with no headphone amp. I am using it with my abyss so that might influence my taste. The LP brought more power to the table.
> 
> The combo of the Bartok and LP is intoxicating. It is not overly smooth or bright. There is really good bass impact the best I have heard with the LP and the stage has opened up. The imaging is really good.
> 
> I just got a new pair of gold lions that I am trying out too. I will give feed back after 100 hours of burn in.




That's awesome, I'am using Abyss AB 1266 too , so you're advise is quiet helpful.


----------



## CreditingKarma

deuter said:


> That's awesome, I'am using Abyss AB 1266 too , so you're advise is quiet helpful.



I also am auditioning my friends Formula S and Powerman. There is some hiss with his amp but if they can get it sorted I might buy it from him too. For me the LP pair pretty well with the Abyss TC. It is a pretty transparent amp so what is feeding it can make a substantial difference. Depending on budget maybe try one of the metrum dacs or the new sonnet orpheus from Cees. I have heard food things about denafrips as well. If you have the spare change kicking around the Bartok is really amazing. It is even better with a speaker setup.


----------



## deuter

CreditingKarma said:


> I also am auditioning my friends Formula S and Powerman. There is some hiss with his amp but if they can get it sorted I might buy it from him too. For me the LP pair pretty well with the Abyss TC. It is a pretty transparent amp so what is feeding it can make a substantial difference. Depending on budget maybe try one of the metrum dacs or the new sonnet orpheus from Cees. I have heard food things about denafrips as well. If you have the spare change kicking around the Bartok is really amazing. It is even better with a speaker setup.


Thanks for the recommendations.
I don't think Bartok is spare change for me especially given we're in Australia and the dollar is not doing us any favours.
As for speaker setup, mine is a complete Vinyl frontend for my stereo setup as I used to have a Lampizator Level 7 but always went back to my records as they sounded a lot more sublime and life like. So decided the digital will be only for my headphone setup in the bedroom.


----------



## CreditingKarma

deuter said:


> Thanks for the recommendations.
> I don't think Bartok is spare change for me especially given we're in Australia and the dollar is not doing us any favours.
> As for speaker setup, mine is a complete Vinyl frontend for my stereo setup as I used to have a Lampizator Level 7 but always went back to my records as they sounded a lot more sublime and life like. So decided the digital will be only for my headphone setup in the bedroom.




I don't think that the Bartok is spare change for any of us. If it was I would have bought the vivaldi.


----------



## Wes S (Mar 10, 2020)

deuter said:


> I read about the synergy of the LP with certain DACs a few threads prior , wanted to know more about what DAC everyone is using and what has been your experience so far.


The LP pairs incredibly well with the Schiit Gungnir Multibit.  I am using the Gungnir Multibit with Philips Miniwatt SQ E188CC 63' tubes and the sound is incredible.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Wes S said:


> The LP pairs incredibly well with the Schiit Gungnir Multibit.  I am using the Gungnir Multibit with Philips Miniwatt SQ E188CC 63' tubes and the sound is incredible.


Why yes, it does  

For me, it's A2 Gumby ==> LP/Siemens CCa ==> Utopia & HEKv2 or A2 Gumby ==> LP/Brimar CV-2492 ==> Ether 2 & HE-6se.  RAD-0 & Auteur like both about equally well.


----------



## deuter

LCMusicLover said:


> Why yes, it does
> 
> For me, it's A2 Gumby ==> LP/Siemens CCa ==> Utopia & HEKv2 or A2 Gumby ==> LP/Brimar CV-2492 ==> Ether 2 & HE-6se.  RAD-0 & Auteur like both about equally well.



What about the Bitfrost 2?


----------



## KG Jag

Monoprice has a group of headphone amps on sale, including the Monoprice Liquid Platinum for $601.  See:

https://www.monoprice.com/search/index?keyword=39359+33304+33305+24460+24459+29511+29512


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> The LP pairs incredibly well with the Schiit Gungnir Multibit.  I am using the Gungnir Multibit with Philips Miniwatt SQ E188CC 63' tubes and the sound is incredible.


Give this single a whirl in you other amp. Pretty certain you will love this more than the 63 Heerlen large O getter. You are going to have to buy another single though for the LP. Maybe the seller has another single?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/One-Early-...be-Gold-Pin-D-Getter-New-Ratings/372657440954.


----------



## Wes S (Mar 12, 2020)

TK16 said:


> Give this single a whirl in you other amp. Pretty certain you will love this more than the 63 Heerlen large O getter. You are going to have to buy another single though for the LP. Maybe the seller has another single?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/One-Early-...be-Gold-Pin-D-Getter-New-Ratings/372657440954.


One of the rarest around!  Nice find, and I know the d getter is always better.  I would kill to have a pair of those!!


----------



## JWahl

To follow up my previous post from a few days ago:  I jumped into the fully-balanced world head first.  Ordered the RME and a balanced cable not long after my last post.  Got it in yesterday and have been listening a bunch.  Aside from the differences the RME brings, the balanced output is actually more different than I was expecting.  At first I didn't like it because it took some time for my brain to readjust to the detail overload, so to speak.  A lot more spatial layering and stuff for my brain to parse out.  I attached a photo to show why I've been valuing compact equipment lately.  Everything fits nicely on my desktop shelf so it's like a mini-rack.  Overall, I feel like I've achieved my goal of maximizing high-performance value-for-money.  The RME isn't cheap, but even at retail, I feel like I'm getting my money's worth between sound, features, and size.  No remorse here at all.  I will say though, that the Liquid Platinum in balanced is now just making me want to hear what the Liquid Gold X is capable of.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> One of the rarest around!  Nice find, and I know the d getter is always better.  I would kill to have a pair of those!!


That is a fantastic price there, might have to wait a long time for a similar mate. I went a whole year to find a matched single for the Hamburg PCC88 PW but was totally worth it in the end.


----------



## ls13coco

How do any Arya & Empyrean users find the platinum pairs with those headphones?
Considering changing out my CTH + LPS for the platinum.


----------



## Tex Irie (Mar 17, 2020)

JWahl said:


> To follow up my previous post from a few days ago:  I jumped into the fully-balanced world head first.  Ordered the RME and a balanced cable not long after my last post.  Got it in yesterday and have been listening a bunch.  Aside from the differences the RME brings, the balanced output is actually more different than I was expecting.  At first I didn't like it because it took some time for my brain to readjust to the detail overload, so to speak.  A lot more spatial layering and stuff for my brain to parse out.  I attached a photo to show why I've been valuing compact equipment lately.  Everything fits nicely on my desktop shelf so it's like a mini-rack.  Overall, I feel like I've achieved my goal of maximizing high-performance value-for-money.  The RME isn't cheap, but even at retail, I feel like I'm getting my money's worth between sound, features, and size.  No remorse here at all.  I will say though, that the Liquid Platinum in balanced is now just making me want to hear what the Liquid Gold X is capable of.


Are you using the default tubes? I'm considering purchasing the Liquid Platinum And a new Desktop DAC. I'm currently using a Hiby R6 Pro with a Cavalli Liquid Carbon X to a balanced Astell & Kern x JH Audio Layla or Angie.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Tex Irie said:


> Are you using the default tubes? I'm considering purchasing the Liquid Platinum And a new Desktop DAC. I'm currently using a Hiby R6 Pro with a Cavalli Liquid Carbon X to a balanced Astell & Kern x JH Audio Layla or Angie.


I wouldn't think the LP is a great choice if you're just going to drive IEMs.  You'll almost certainly need volume attenuation in your system. I could barely use my Utopia directly out of the LP without attenuation.  It's 104 dB/mW @ 80 Ohms.  So those IEMs @ 117 dB/mW & 17 or 20 Ohms will be much more sensitive.


----------



## Tex Irie

LCMusicLover said:


> I wouldn't think the LP is a great choice if you're just going to drive IEMs.  You'll almost certainly need volume attenuation in your system. I could barely use my Utopia directly out of the LP without attenuation.  It's 104 dB/mW @ 80 Ohms.  So those IEMs @ 117 dB/mW & 17 or 20 Ohms will be much more sensitive.


Noted... Can anyone else confirm if this was the case while using IEMs with the LP?


----------



## Wes S

Tex Irie said:


> Noted... Can anyone else confirm if this was the case while using IEMs with the LP?


I would not even think about using iems with the LP, without a preamp.


----------



## Tex Irie

Wes S said:


> I would not even think about using iems with the LP, without a preamp.


Is there a thread for IEM friendly Tube/ hybrid Amp suggestions for my previously mentioned setup? I didn't want to hijack the thread. I certainly appreciate the community input.


----------



## sahmen (Mar 18, 2020)

Wes S said:


> I would not even think about using iems with the LP, without a preamp.



Except the Audeze LCDi4, which sings like a Nightingale with the LP!  No wait! some people do not think the LCDi4 is a real IEM.  Ha!


----------



## Zachik

Tex Irie said:


> Is there a thread for IEM friendly Tube/ hybrid Amp suggestions for my previously mentioned setup? I didn't want to hijack the thread. I certainly appreciate the community input.


I do not recall seeing a thread dedicated for tube amps for IEMs... 
Having said that, a good bet would be looking at *portable tube amps*. Couple examples off the top of my head:
ALO Audio's Continental v5 (CV5) and its big brother, Continental Dual Mono (CDM)

Alternatively, go to a thread that discusses your IEMs, and ask there for recommendation for tube amps used with said IEMs by other owners.

Now... back to LP


----------



## Wes S (Mar 18, 2020)

sahmen said:


> Except the Audeze LCDi4, which sings like and Nightingale with the LP!  No wait! some people do not think the LCDi4 is a real IEM.  Ha!


I call that an in ear speaker.  Of course there probably are some iems with high impendance and low sensitivity that would work with the LP, but overall most iems would not be a good match.


----------



## Wes S (Mar 18, 2020)

Tex Irie said:


> Is there a thread for IEM friendly Tube/ hybrid Amp suggestions for my previously mentioned setup? I didn't want to hijack the thread. I certainly appreciate the community input.


Edit - nevermind, the amp I originally mentioned, is not balanced.


----------



## Tex Irie

Thank you guys. Awesome community.


----------



## JWahl

Tex Irie said:


> Are you using the default tubes? I'm considering purchasing the Liquid Platinum And a new Desktop DAC. I'm currently using a Hiby R6 Pro with a Cavalli Liquid Carbon X to a balanced Astell & Kern x JH Audio Layla or Angie.



Just the stock tubes.  I don't use IEM's, but the RME ADI-2 I'm using with the LP has a dedicated IEM output that is supposed to be very low noise.  Might be something to look at if you're a serious IEM user.  You probably wouldn't even need a separate amp to be honest.


----------



## joshuachew

Does anyone have any experience of this Liquid Platinum vs Drops 788 THX amp?


----------



## KG Jag

The Monolith by Monoprice Liquid Platinum Balanced Headphone Amplifier by Alex Cavalli for $601:

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=33305

Amazon Prime has it for $39 more:

https://www.amazon.com/Monolith-Liquid-Platinum-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B07K7YSL41/


----------



## Wes S (Apr 4, 2020)

Sad news to report, my LP died on me this morning.  I was happily jamming out, and it just turned off, and wont come back on. The light on the power supply is green, but the LP won't come on at all.  I have babied this amp, and I really am quite upset it died within the first year of owning it. Time to see how an exchange goes with Monoprice.

Side note, I put my Schiit Jotunheim in the LP's place, and what a surprise it sounds just as good as the LP.


----------



## SilverEars

Did they do any revision on the gain issue?  Is there a way to modify yourself?


----------



## sahmen

Wes S said:


> Sad news to report, my LP died on me this morning.  I was happily jamming out, and it just turned off, and wont come back on. The light on the power supply is green, but the LP won't come on at all.  I have babied this amp, and I really am quite upset it died within the first year of owning it. Time to see how an exchange goes with Monoprice.
> 
> Side note, I put my Schiit Jotunheim in the LP's place, and what a surprise it sounds just as good as the LP.


Sorry to hear... I hope the folks at.Monoprice do right by you... As for the Jot sounding just as good as the LP, it sounds both surprising and unsurprising, but we can discuss related insights later.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Wes S said:


> Sad news to report, my LP died on me this morning.  I was happily jamming out, and it just turned off, and wont come back on. The light on the power supply is green, but the LP won't come on at all.  I have babied this amp, and I really am quite upset it died within the first year of owning it. Time to see how an exchange goes with Monoprice.
> 
> Side note, I put my Schiit Jotunheim in the LP's place, and what a surprise it sounds just as good as the LP.


My LP failure was almost the same. Pressed power to turn it on, and ... nothing. Only differences were that mine wasn’t running when it failed, and the power supply LED on mine was blinking. But I could never get an answer as to what that meant. 

Monoprice was quick to replace it though.


----------



## sahmen

Talking about warranties, how long does the LP's last if it is purchased new from Monoprice?


----------



## adamos (Apr 4, 2020)

sahmen said:


> Talking about warranties, how long does the LP's last if it is purchased new from Monoprice?



I happen to know this offhand because I got one not too long ago; it’s 5 years


----------



## Zachik

SilverEars said:


> Did they do any revision on the gain issue?


No.



SilverEars said:


> Is there a way to modify yourself?


I would love to know, too. I am personally using a passive pre-amp between my DAC and the LP to deal with the gain issue. Not ideal solution, but modding the amp would void your warranty, and if you read a couple posts back - 2 different people had their LP die on them... not sure it is worth the risk of losing warranty...


----------



## shafat777

Will monoprice honor the warranty if bought brand new from Amazon 2 months ago? Just chekcing because of all the failure talks got me scared about mine.


----------



## KG Jag (Apr 4, 2020)

^^^^^^^ Sorry to hear that.  Good luck with Monoprice and let us know how that goes.

I wish that my Jotunheim (which is a very good amp at its price point) sounded as good to me as the LP.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 5, 2020)

KG Jag said:


> ^^^^^^^ Sorry to hear that.  Good luck with Monoprice and let us know how that goes.
> 
> I wish that my Jotunheim (which is a very good amp at its price point) sounded as good to me as the LP.


Thanks!  After further listening with the Jotunheim, it definitely is not as good as the LP, but with balanced in and out paired with my Gumby, it sounds pretty darn good and will get me by until I get my replacement LP.


----------



## deuter

All,

My Amperex 6922 gray plate o getter just died, noticed it had a crack.
Its advisable to get just a replacement tube or do I need to buy a pair.

Also any current production tubes that are recommended with similar sound like the Amperex, nice detail and a warm tone with excellent mid bass.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Sad news to report, my LP died on me this morning.  I was happily jamming out, and it just turned off, and wont come back on. The light on the power supply is green, but the LP won't come on at all.  I have babied this amp, and I really am quite upset it died within the first year of owning it. Time to see how an exchange goes with Monoprice.
> 
> Side note, I put my Schiit Jotunheim in the LP's place, and what a surprise it sounds just as good as the LP.


This is what happens when you use compatible tubes! Please be safe when using Coronavirus infected tubes! JK bro be safe.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 8, 2020)

TK16 said:


> This is what happens when you use compatible tubes! Please be safe when using Coronavirus infected tubes! JK bro be safe.


I have babied my LP, and only used the suggested tubes, so go figure I am the one with issues.  Guess what, my new replacement has issues with the balance of the volume pot!  At first I thought this one was better, but this one is even worse.  The channel imbalance happens at about 9:30 on the dial, and I can just barely move the dial from 9:30 to 9:35, and the sound jumps from being balanced to getting stronger in the right channel.  I listened with some mono recordings, and the imbalance is very obvious.  I have always heard of pots having channel imbalance at the lowest volumes, but this quite different, and not acceptable.  So, back to Monoprice goes this replacement LP as well.  I am starting to think that this amp is very cheaply made, and I am already thinking of buying the Schiit Mjolnir 2 instead.  Why couldn't they just have put an Alps Blue Velvet pot in there, and done it right!!  I am happy with Monoprice's customer service, but the Liquid Platinum is another story.  Don't get me wrong, I love the sound of the LP, but the crappy parts are really starting to bother me.  As it stands now, I can not recommend this amp to anyone, as I am not confident in the build quality at all.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> I have babied my LP, and only used the suggested tubes, so go figure I am the one with issues.  Guess what, my new replacement has issues with the balance of the volume pot!  At first I thought this one was better, but this one is even worse.  The channel imbalance happens at about 9:30 on the dial, and I can just barely move the dial from 9:30 to 9:35, and the sound jumps from being balanced to getting stronger in the right channel.  I listened with some mono recordings, and the imbalance is very obvious.  I have always heard of pots having channel imbalance at the lowest volumes, but this quite different, and not acceptable.  So, back to Monoprice goes this replacement LP as well.  I am starting to think that this amp is very cheaply made, and I am already thinking of buying the Schiit Mjolnir 2 instead.  Why couldn't they just have put an Alps Blue Velvet pot in there, and done it right!!  I am happy with Monoprice's customer service, but the Liquid Platinum is another story.  Don't get me wrong, I love the sound of the LP, but the crappy parts are really starting to bother me.  As it stands now, I can not recommend this amp to anyone, as I am not confident in the build quality at all.


If you can I'd recommend a MJ 2, has a few positives compared to the LP. Have you tried different tubes to see if it exhibits the imbalance problem?


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> If you can I'd recommend a MJ 2, has a few positives compared to the LP. Have you tried different tubes to see if it exhibits the imbalance problem?


I am really looking at the MJ2 and most likely will be going that route, as it seems like everything I want and need for my particular headphones, and is a perfect match for my DAC (Gumby).

I have not tried another set of tubes yet, because I was so pissed last night I had to take a break from messing with it.  Those same tubes however gave me no issues with channel imbalance on the first LP.  I am not shipping the amp back until tomorrow, so I am going to try another pair of tubes tonight, and see if that was the issue.  It sure seems like the cheap crappy pot is the issue, and I will confirm that tonight.  

Thanks for the tip and suggestion!


----------



## TK16 (Apr 8, 2020)

Wes S said:


> I am really looking at the MJ2 and most likely will be going that route, as it seems like everything I want and need for my particular headphones, and is a perfect match for my DAC (Gumby).
> 
> I have not tried another set of tubes yet, because I was so pissed last night I had to take a break from messing with it.  Those same tubes however gave me no issues with channel imbalance on the first LP.  I am not shipping the amp back until tomorrow, so I am going to try another pair of tubes tonight, and see if that was the issue.  It sure seems like the cheap crappy pot is the issue, and I will confirm that tonight.
> 
> Thanks for the tip and suggestion!


No problem, I'd recommend noting the channel imbalance and see if the imbalance switches channels when you switch your current set.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> No problem, I'd recommend noting the channel imbalance and see if the imbalance switches channels when you switch your current set.


Will do.  Thanks again.


----------



## Shane D

Wes S said:


> I have babied my LP, and only used the suggested tubes, so go figure I am the one with issues.  Guess what, my new replacement has issues with the balance of the volume pot!  At first I thought this one was better, but this one is even worse.  The channel imbalance happens at about 9:30 on the dial, and I can just barely move the dial from 9:30 to 9:35, and the sound jumps from being balanced to getting stronger in the right channel.  I listened with some mono recordings, and the imbalance is very obvious.  I have always heard of pots having channel imbalance at the lowest volumes, but this quite different, and not acceptable.  So, back to Monoprice goes this replacement LP as well.  I am starting to think that this amp is very cheaply made, and I am already thinking of buying the Schiit Mjolnir 2 instead.  Why couldn't they just have put an Alps Blue Velvet pot in there, and done it right!!  I am happy with Monoprice's customer service, but the Liquid Platinum is another story.  Don't get me wrong, I love the sound of the LP, but the crappy parts are really starting to bother me.  As it stands now, I can not recommend this amp to anyone, as I am not confident in the build quality at all.



This situation just sucks. This amp is on my wish list too. I have a Liquid Spark and an LCX and really do like the Cavalli sound. I was looking at buying this but just HAD to scratch the tube itch. Now I am thinking this would finish off my collection. Hhhmmmmm.


----------



## Slim1970

Shane D said:


> This situation just sucks. This amp is on my wish list too. I have a Liquid Spark and an LCX and really do like the Cavalli sound. I was looking at buying this but just HAD to scratch the tube itch. Now I am thinking this would finish off my collection. Hhhmmmmm.


Same here @Shane D. I was thinking that the Liquid Platinum could give me that tube sound with solid state drive at a reasonable price. But now these last few posts have me rethinking my plan.


----------



## Shane D

Slim1970 said:


> Same here @Shane D. I was thinking that the Liquid Platinum could give me that tube sound with solid state drive at a reasonable price. But now these last few posts have me rethinking my plan.



It is probably just a one in a thousand thing, but we have to obsess over it.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Just to pitch in here, since I'm one of the folks who reported a failure -- there's a significant chance that my failure was not the amp's fault.  We had some power hits before my failure, and the power supply came up with a blinking green LED when I turned it on. I never heard from anyone what that meant, and Monoprice replaced the whole kit. If it was just that the power supply got killed, I would have been willing to pay for a new one -- I mean that's hardly their fault.  But as I said, I never heard anything from them except 'return it'.


----------



## Davidibiza

I got one used a couple weeks ago and I can say this thing sounds sensational. What are you afraid of? if it breaks there's a warranty no?
I rest my case...


----------



## Slim1970

Davidibiza said:


> I got one used a couple weeks ago and I can say this thing sounds sensational. What are you afraid of? if it breaks there's a warranty no?
> I rest my case...


Good point!


----------



## nwavesailor (Apr 8, 2020)

I have had my LP for well over a year and I have no audible channel imbalance. I have these tubes, but use no 6DJ8 / 6922 / 7308 in the LP. I have many 12AU7 as well as 3 pairs of dead quiet WE 396A / 2C51 and some special Mini Mullards CV3986 from Tube Monger. The 12AU7 and WE require adapres and the Mini Mullards are close to 6922 and do not. Some folks find this amp to warm for Empy's or ZMF VO, pared with a Chord Qutest and these tube, I do not.

The MJ2 may indeed be a good tube amp but it has way too big a footprint for me.


----------



## shafat777

I would also like to chime in regarding the channel imbalance issue mentioned above. Ive been running my LP extensively for the last 3 months and so far its been rock solid. With that being said, I have indeed noticed a very minor (extremely minor) channel imbalance. Almost 51-49 favoring my right ear. Whats surprising to me is that, I only notice it when i m playing my planars like LCD-X, AEON 2 Closed and Sendy Aiva. All of dynamics like Focal Clear, hd 660s, hd 598 sound accurate and dead center. I honestly dont know what can cause this. I am currently rolling a pair of JJ E88cc and previously rolled some 7308 Amperex PQ and Orange globes. Results are same for all the tubes.


----------



## deuter

shafat777 said:


> I would also like to chime in regarding the channel imbalance issue mentioned above. Ive been running my LP extensively for the last 3 months and so far its been rock solid. With that being said, I have indeed noticed a very minor (extremely minor) channel imbalance. Almost 51-49 favoring my right ear. Whats surprising to me is that, I only notice it when i m playing my planars like LCD-X, AEON 2 Closed and Sendy Aiva. All of dynamics like Focal Clear, hd 660s, hd 598 sound accurate and dead center. I honestly dont know what can cause this. I am currently rolling a pair of JJ E88cc and previously rolled some 7308 Amperex PQ and Orange globes. Results are same for all the tubes.


Which tubes did you enjoy, were they any different?


----------



## Wes S (Apr 9, 2020)

Just to elaborate on my LP issues,  my second one does indeed have really bad channel imbalance and it is not at the lowest volumes, and I could see lots of people not even notice it, but with harder to drive headphones (ZMF Ori) where I have to raise the volume more than most, that is where the jump from left to right happens.  Like I also said, I love this amp and was actually thinking of buying 2 of them, one for a backup.  At the current price of $600 and the 5 year warranty this amp still can’t be beat.  I may be 1 in a thousand, but I have had 2 LP’s now with issues, so I guess that might actually be 2 in a thousand and there is that.

Fingers crossed that the 3rd one is the charm. . .


----------



## shafat777

deuter said:


> Which tubes did you enjoy, were they any different?


I enjoyed and still enjoying my amperex orange globe. I didnt like the PQ at all because the treble was wayyyyyyyyyy too bright for my taste and the midrange sounded veiled. My orange globes are just about perfect, although i could really use some warmth on the high end. At the moment my JJ tubes are treating me real nice and I hope the treble tames down a little bit after burn in. I have a pair of Sylvania coming up in a few days and after that i ll have 3 sets of tubes and hopefully various sound signatures to choose from. Let me know if you need any more suggestions.


----------



## skor (Apr 9, 2020)

Chiming in on my experience.  I've had mine since Nov 2018.  0 Channel imbalance, 0 issues.  Using Tubemonger socket savers and matched pair Amperex D-Getter Heerlen Holland 1959 on recommendation by @Wes S (thank you btw they are amazing, sorry to hear you're having issues)


----------



## Shane D

shafat777 said:


> I would also like to chime in regarding the channel imbalance issue mentioned above. Ive been running my LP extensively for the last 3 months and so far its been rock solid. With that being said, I have indeed noticed a very minor (extremely minor) channel imbalance. Almost 51-49 favoring my right ear. Whats surprising to me is that, I only notice it when i m playing my planars like LCD-X, AEON 2 Closed and Sendy Aiva. All of dynamics like Focal Clear, hd 660s, hd 598 sound accurate and dead center. I honestly dont know what can cause this. I am currently rolling a pair of JJ E88cc and previously rolled some 7308 Amperex PQ and Orange globes. Results are same for all the tubes.



You have a very nice headphone collection.


----------



## shafat777

Shane D said:


> You have a very nice headphone collection.


Thanks boss. Thats high praise. I have an Auteur on the way.....However, Im always on the hunt for some new cans. Plz feel free to suggest a pair or two that might pair well with my LP and my new Hagerman Audio TUBA.


----------



## Shane D (Apr 9, 2020)

shafat777 said:


> Thanks boss. Thats high praise. I have an Auteur on the way.....However, Im always on the hunt for some new cans. Plz feel free to suggest a pair or two that might pair well with my LP and my new Hagerman Audio TUBA.



LP AND the Tuba? You live life right!
In the last five years I have bought over 20 pairs of headphones and most were disappointments to me.

My current favourites are:

1) Grado GH2's via my Ear+ HD II amp (similar to your tuba). I almost bought the Tuba but mine was cheaper and made in Canada.

2) Focal Elex's via anything... except my tube amp. But they are Amazing

3) HiFiman Sundara's just arrived this week. Killer sale and I love what they're doing...except with the tube amp. Not a vocals headphone, but they are very special

4) Fostex TH-610's. Bassy, but a bit sloppy. The SMSL SP200 cleans them up nicely.

I LOVE my Koss system from Drop, but in my case a Schiit Loki is a necessity in the chain. It really fills the sound out.

Too bad we didn't live closer


----------



## Wes S (Apr 10, 2020)

shafat777 said:


> I would also like to chime in regarding the channel imbalance issue mentioned above. Ive been running my LP extensively for the last 3 months and so far its been rock solid. With that being said, I have indeed noticed a very minor (extremely minor) channel imbalance. Almost 51-49 favoring my right ear. Whats surprising to me is that, I only notice it when i m playing my planars like LCD-X, AEON 2 Closed and Sendy Aiva. All of dynamics like Focal Clear, hd 660s, hd 598 sound accurate and dead center. I honestly dont know what can cause this. I am currently rolling a pair of JJ E88cc and previously rolled some 7308 Amperex PQ and Orange globes. Results are same for all the tubes.


My channel imbalance issues happen with my harder to drive planers as well, and not my easier to drive dynamics. I blame it on the cheap pot, and I bet lots more LP owners have it, and just don’t notice.  Sure wish they would have gone with an Alps Blue Velvet.  My second replacement unit is scheduled to arrive on Monday, so fingers crossed it is a good one.  I need/want that sweet Cavalli magic in my life again.  I will say that if you bought one new from Monoprice, there are no worries about there customer service.   Monoprice’s customer service has been excellent!


----------



## LCMusicLover

Wes S said:


> My channel imbalance issues happen with my harder to drive planers as well, and not my easier to drive dynamics. I blame it on the cheap pot, and I bet lots more LP owners have it, and just don’t notice.  Sure wish they would have gone with an Alps Blue Velvet.  My second replacement unit is scheduled to arrive on Monday, so fingers crossed it is a good one.  I need/want that sweet Cavalli magic in my life again.  I will say that if you bought one new from Monoprice, there are no worries about there customer service.   Monoprice’s customer service has been excellent!


Interesting -- I've had 3 LPs (first unit which died, warranty replacement, spare which I ordered on an Amazon sale during the warranty replacement period and then sold). None had notable channel imbalance above (say) 8:00 or 8:30 on the pot. Now whether there is/was _any_ imbalance ... ???


----------



## Wes S (Apr 11, 2020)

LCMusicLover said:


> Interesting -- I've had 3 LPs (first unit which died, warranty replacement, spare which I ordered on an Amazon sale during the warranty replacement period and then sold). None had notable channel imbalance above (say) 8:00 or 8:30 on the pot. Now whether there is/was _any_ imbalance ... ???


That is reassuring that all 3 of yours did not have issues.  Did you ever get to around 10:45 - 11 on the pot?  That is where my 2nd one has serious imbalance issues.  Another interesting thing about the 2 Defective LP's I have had now, is that the volume control or settings to get to acceptable listening levels, were quite different with the same DAC, tubes and headphones.  On my first unit, I could barely go past 10 on the dial, with the second unit I could go quite a bit higher around 11:30.  The pots even felt different, the first one had more resistance and the second turned with hardly any pressure at all.

3rd one has to be the charm, at least I really hope it is.    I am really missing those incredible vocals, and Monday can't come quick enough. . .


----------



## Zachik

@Wes S - I am using a passive preamp between my DAC and the LP, so basically I could set the LP volume to whatever position it is working well and balanced, and then control the actual volume levels from the preamp (which uses a good quality ALPS pot). 
Obviously, that adds to the cost and tidiness of the entire setup, but if that helps the sound / balance........


----------



## Odin412

Zachik said:


> @Wes S - I am using a passive preamp between my DAC and the LP, so basically I could set the LP volume to whatever position it is working well and balanced, and then control the actual volume levels from the preamp (which uses a good quality ALPS pot).
> Obviously, that adds to the cost and tidiness of the entire setup, but if that helps the sound / balance........



I have a similar setup, but my preamp is less fancy than yours; I use a Schiit SYS.


----------



## shafat777

Do you mind sharing which preamp you own please? Or any pre amp that works well with the LP?


----------



## Zachik

Odin412 said:


> I have a similar setup, but my preamp is less fancy than yours; I use a Schiit SYS.


I paid WAY more than the price of Schiit SYS... 



shafat777 said:


> Do you mind sharing which preamp you own please? Or any pre amp that works well with the LP?


Mine was custom-built. The guy is in Portugal, and is not taking any orders until things calm down over there (I was trying to custom order something else, and was asked to wait a few weeks...)
The short answer to your question @shafat777 - ANY preamp should work! Mine is SE (RCA-to-RCA) because my DAC is NOT balanced. In your case, since the LP has both SE and Balanced inputs - choose according to your source (DAC).


----------



## LCMusicLover

Wes S said:


> That is reassuring that all 3 of yours did not have issues.  Did you ever get to around 10:45 - 11 on the pot?  That is where my 2nd one has serious imbalance issues.  Another interesting thing about the 2 Defective LP's I have had now, is that the volume control or settings to get to acceptable listening levels, were quite different with the same DAC, tubes and headphones.  On my first unit, I could barely go past 10 on the dial, with the second unit I could go quite a bit higher around 11:30.  The pots even felt different, the first one had more resistance and the second turned with hardly any pressure at all.
> 
> 3rd one has to be the charm, at least I really hope it is.    I am really missing those incredible vocals, and Monday can't come quick enough. . .


My rig is similar to @Zachik ‘s — passive preamp between DACs & amps. I mostly set volume @ 12:00 and adjust volume on the preamp.
Amusingly, the amp maxes out @ about 3:00 as I discovered when using it to drive HE-6se.

Again, no notable imbalance above 8:00ish.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 12, 2020)

LCMusicLover said:


> My rig is similar to @Zachik ‘s — passive preamp between DACs & amps. I mostly set volume @ 12:00 and adjust volume on the preamp.
> Amusingly, the amp maxes out @ about 3:00 as I discovered when using it to drive HE-6se.
> 
> Again, no notable imbalance above 8:00ish.


Nice! A good passive preamp, with stepped attenuation might be in my future.  I tried my Schiit Sys a while back as a passive pre, and it seemed to kill some of the dynamics, but I know that isn't really what it was designed for.


----------



## Wes S

Zachik said:


> I paid WAY more than the price of Schiit SYS...
> 
> 
> Mine was custom-built. The guy is in Portugal, and is not taking any orders until things calm down over there (I was trying to custom order something else, and was asked to wait a few weeks...)
> The short answer to your question @shafat777 - ANY preamp should work! Mine is SE (RCA-to-RCA) because my DAC is NOT balanced. In your case, since the LP has both SE and Balanced inputs - choose according to your source (DAC).


That is good advice, and I had forgot all about the passive pre, as I was so frustrated. I originally had planned to buy a good one, with stepped attenuation, but the added cost and space is limited, so I put it out of mind, but I might have to rethink on that.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 12, 2020)

Thanks for all the suggestions and info fellas!  I am sorry for the negative post lately, and I have just been really frustrated.  With all the craziness going on, it sure has been nice to be able to lock myself in my room and listen to some good tunes on great gear.  So I really can't wait to get a proper functioning LP, so I can get back to my happy place.  I do love the sound of this amp, and anyone that has read through this thread knows I am one of the LP's biggest fans.  My 2nd replacement LP shows up tomorrow, and I am really hoping to get back to enjoying that sweet sound.

Happy Easter and Happy Listening!

Wes


----------



## shafat777

And by any chance, youre still not happy with your LP, jsut sell or return it, and get yourself a TUBA. Ever since I got mine, my LP has been collecting dust.


----------



## Zachik

Wes S said:


> That is good advice, and I had forgot all about the passive pre, as I was so frustrated. I originally had planned to buy a good one, with stepped attenuation, but the added cost and space is limited, so I put it out of mind, but I might have to rethink on that.


Wes - mine does not have stepped attenuation. Just a good quality ALPS pot.
I personally do not like the steps, and rather have smooth motion.  Lower cost is another plus


----------



## Zachik

Wes S said:


> I am sorry for the negative post lately, and I have just been really frustrated.


You do NOT need to apologize, IMHO.  Audiophiles are perfectionists for starts, and have OCD in many cases  
Regardless, and joking aside - $700 amp should not use a crappy pot!!  That is NOT a $99 Schiit amp...


----------



## Shane D

Can I ask a favour from one of you owners? Could measure the height with the regular tubes in?
I have some glass shelves that I use to hold and organize my system. The shelves are somewhat adjustable, but my tube amp is certainly never fitting anywhere but on top.

The normal opening is a little over 7cm's=2 3/4". That can probably be be expanded up least 3 1/2" = 8-8.5cm's.

Thank you!


----------



## Odin412

Shane D said:


> Can I ask a favour from one of you owners? Could measure the height with the regular tubes in?
> I have some glass shelves that I use to hold and organize my system. The shelves are somewhat adjustable, but my tube amp is certainly never fitting anywhere but on top.
> 
> The normal opening is a little over 7cm's=2 3/4". That can probably be be expanded up least 3 1/2" = 8-8.5cm's.
> ...



It's a little bit less than 8 cm, maybe 7.8 cm (my amp is in a shelf so it's hard to get exact measurements). Also keep in mind that the tubes get hot so they need some space for ventilation.


----------



## Shane D (Apr 13, 2020)

Odin412 said:


> It's a little bit less than 8 cm, maybe 7.8 cm (my amp is in a shelf so it's hard to get exact measurements). Also keep in mind that the tubes get hot so they need some space for ventilation.



Thanks! As far as ventilation goes, the shelving is open on all four sides


----------



## Shane D

There is a sale right now at Monoprice for $599.00. I just ordered one. It will be a while, but I am pretty excited.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Yes, that's pretty much been the lowest price -- I got mine on Amazon for that price.  Too bad I spent as much again on tube


----------



## nwavesailor

Shane D said:


> There is a sale right now at Monoprice for $599.00. I just ordered one. It will be a while, but I am pretty excited.



Nice buy, Shane!


----------



## Shane D

nwavesailor said:


> Nice buy, Shane!



Now the first order of business is to sell the Burson Fun with three sets of opamps. And then the LCX will follow.


----------



## Wes S

Just fired up my 2nd replacement, and all is well.   This one has absolutely no channel imbalance anywhere on the pot, and it is back to pure bliss.  Man I missed the sweet sound of this amp, and I am so happy to have my baby back.


----------



## Slim1970

Wes S said:


> Just fired up my 2nd replacement, and all is well.   This one has absolutely no channel imbalance anywhere on the pot, and it is back to pure bliss.  Man I missed the sweet sound of this amp, and I am so happy to have my baby back.


How is the dynamics and attack on this amp? I'm considering this amp because I want some tube flavor. All of my amps are solid state. I've had some tube amps before but sold them because they lacked drive and I thought they made the sound to soft for my liking.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 13, 2020)

Slim1970 said:


> How is the dynamics and attack on this amp? I'm considering this amp because I want some tube flavor. All of my amps are solid state. I've had some tube amps before but sold them because they lacked drive and I thought they made the sound to soft for my liking.


This amp has great dynamics and punch, with the right tubes and DAC.  Using my ZMF Ori headphones with Sylvania 6922 D Getter tubes, the attack and weight of the notes is awesome.  You can feel the music.

Just for reference, what amps did you have in the past that lacked drive and were soft?


----------



## Slim1970

Wes S said:


> This amp has great dynamics and punch, with the right tubes and DAC.  Using my ZMF Ori headphones with Sylvania 6922 D Getter tubes, the attack and weight of the notes is awesome.  You can feel the music.
> 
> Just for reference, what amps did you have in the past that lacked drive and were soft?


I had the Pathos Aurium, which is a hybrid, the ALO Continental Dual Mono, and the Woo Audio WA6se. The Woo Audio WA6se was great for the HD800's but I didn't like it that much with my other headphones. After the Pathos Aurium I decided tube amps were not for me. Then I went to a local meet, Zach from ZMF was there. He let me listen to the ZMF Verite's and the prototype of the Verite Closed driven by the Woo Audio WA8. The experience completely changed my mind on what a tube amp could do. I actually preferred it to the ZMF Pendant amp he had. I'm sure the Pendant is a better amp but I fell in love with the capabilties of WA8. 

@CreditingKarma was there with his Liquid Platinum and Abyss Phi TC's. The pairing was great, better than great actually. But I didn't try it out with some of my headphones. I missed my opportunity to get a gauge on the Liquid Platinum's performance. Now I'm curious about it with no way to get a listen to it without buying it.


----------



## Wes S

Slim1970 said:


> I had the Pathos Aurium, which is a hybrid, the ALO Continental Dual Mono, and the Woo Audio WA6se. The Woo Audio WA6se was great for the HD800's but I didn't like it that much with my other headphones. After the Pathos Aurium I decided tube amps were not for me. Then I went to a local meet, Zach from ZMF was there. He let me listen to the ZMF Verite's and the prototype of the Verite Closed driven by the Woo Audio WA8. The experience completely changed my mind on what a tube amp could do. I actually preferred it to the ZMF Pendant amp he had. I'm sure the Pendant is a better amp but I fell in love with the capabilties of WA8.
> 
> @CreditingKarma was there with his Liquid Platinum and Abyss Phi TC's. The pairing was great, better than great actually. But I didn't try it out with some of my headphones. I missed my opportunity to get a gauge on the Liquid Platinum's performance. Now I'm curious about it with no way to get a listen to it without buying it.


Man, you have had some nice amps.  I have not heard any of them personally, but have I read a bunch about all of them.


----------



## Shane D

Anybody running this amp off of an SMSL SU-8 DAC?


----------



## Slim1970

Wes S said:


> Man, you have had some nice amps.  I have not heard any of them personally, but have I read a bunch about all of them.


Thanks, I really want to try the LP again in my system. If I go this route, then I have to find a good set of tubes. I’ve been following this thread and the choice of tubes seem to greatly impact sound. The list of tube possibilities and combinations that works well with the LP seem countless. If I had to pick one set of tubes that works well with a variety of headphones and has good frequency response, which would you suggest?


----------



## Wes S

Slim1970 said:


> Thanks, I really want to try the LP again in my system. If I go this route, then I have to find a good set of tubes. I’ve been following this thread and the choice of tubes seem to greatly impact sound. The list of tube possibilities and combinations that works well with the LP seem countless. If I had to pick one set of tubes that works well with a variety of headphones and has good frequency response, which would you suggest?


As far as tubes in the LP, my favorite are the Sylvania 6922 D Getter, followed by the Brimar CV2492, then the Amperex Holland Bugle Boy ECC88 D Getter.  There is lots of good tube info in the Liquid Platinum tube rolling thread, as well. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monoprice-liquid-platinum-tube-rollers.898852/


----------



## Guidostrunk

Never imagined owning one these. Should have mine by Monday lol.


----------



## nwavesailor

it is a good amp to get back into tubes with, Sam!


----------



## Wes S

nwavesailor said:


> it is a good amp to get back into tubes with, Sam!


Sure is!


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> Never imagined owning one these. Should have mine by Monday lol.


Welcome to the club!  I can't wait to hear how you like it, and what tubes you prefer.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Have a question/concern that you guys may be able to clear up for me. 

One of the common themes mentioned throughout the thread was the output power of this amp. Some were using preamps to help with the volume levels. 
I'll be running a pair of Focal Clear pros with the LP which are very sensitive with a 55ohm impedance. Anyone else using the Clears with this amp? Should I get a preamp to use with it?


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Never imagined owning one these. Should have mine by Monday lol.


Hey bro long time no see! It's a great amp but you can't use any 6201, ECC81, 6N2P in the LP though all the other usual suspects your used to use in other amps, throw in GEC A2900 into do not use in the LP. Welcome to the club bro.


----------



## Guidostrunk

How about the 7316, Ecc82, 12au7 CV4003? I'm hoping lol. Good to see you too TK! I'm really looking forward to this amp. I just hope I can get out of the channel imbalance issues on the volume before it gets crazy loud. I'm also hoping that it's a big step up in SQ over the MCTH. 


TK16 said:


> Hey bro long time no see! It's a great amp but you can't use any 6201, ECC81, 6N2P in the LP though all the other usual suspects your used to use in other amps, throw in GEC A2900 into do not use in the LP. Welcome to the club bro.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Have a question/concern that you guys may be able to clear up for me.
> 
> One of the common themes mentioned throughout the thread was the output power of this amp. Some were using preamps to help with the volume levels.
> I'll be running a pair of Focal Clear pros with the LP which are very sensitive with a 55ohm impedance. Anyone else using the Clears with this amp? Should I get a preamp to use with it?


I'd highly recommend using a preamp with it. I use my MJ2 as a preamp permanently.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm also hoping you snagged up those triple mica a2900 I posted in the lyr thread lol.


TK16 said:


> Hey bro long time no see! It's a great amp but you can't use any 6201, ECC81, 6N2P in the LP though all the other usual suspects your used to use in other amps, throw in GEC A2900 into do not use in the LP. Welcome to the club bro.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Would something like a Schiit Sys suffice?


TK16 said:


> I'd highly recommend using a preamp with it. I use my MJ2 as a preamp permanently.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Would something like a Schiit Sys suffice?


Were sold by the time I saw the post. Not really an expert on attenuation, people here would know more than me. You running SE or balanced?
Any 6DJ8 substitute will work in LP including PCC88. ECC82 variants will work tube has a low amplification factor. 6N3P, 5670, 396A will work, these though have a bit higher amplification factor. I wouldn't use any ceramic tube adapters. They can amplify the noise, those cheap Chinese adapters are fine. Bakelite.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm probably gonna give balanced a whirl. The problem I had in the past was the hard pan left and right with certain songs that I didn't quite have with single ended. Seems balanced is the way to go though with this amp. 
What tubes are you currently using in the LP? Or your top 3 in the LP lol.


TK16 said:


> Were sold by the time I saw the post. Not really an expert on attenuation, people here would know more than me. You running SE or balanced?
> Any 6DJ8 substitute will work in LP including PCC88. ECC82 variants will work tube has a low amplification factor. 6N3P, 5670, 396A will work, these though have a bit higher amplification factor. I wouldn't use any ceramic tube adapters. They can amplify the noise, those cheap Chinese adapters are fine. Bakelite.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Guidostrunk said:


> Have a question/concern that you guys may be able to clear up for me.
> 
> One of the common themes mentioned throughout the thread was the output power of this amp. Some were using preamps to help with the volume levels.
> I'll be running a pair of Focal Clear pros with the LP which are very sensitive with a 55ohm impedance. Anyone else using the Clears with this amp? Should I get a preamp to use with it?


I don't own/haven't used Clear.  But I do own/have used Utopia with my LP.  Note that the Utopia has the same sensitivity (104 dB @ 1 mW) but higher impedance (80 Ohms vs 55 for Clear).  So Clear should be even louder than Utopia at the same volume setting.

And I would say that you will probably want to add some kind of attenuation to your chain with them. Of course, this also depends on the output voltage of your source.  My DACs both output ~4 volts in balanced mode, which I use.  If your DAC's output is much lower, than you might not need attenuation.

But the bottom line is, I suspect that you'll reach 'too loud' at around 9:00 on the volume knob.  And that is starting from a 'zero' level that's about 7:00 on the knob. That makes it hard to make fine adjustments, and also increases the possibility that you'll inadvertently blast your ears or damage the drivers by bumping the volume up too much.

The other issue is channel imbalance.  I've had 3 of these -- 1 had noticeable imbalance in the 'working volume' range with Utopia while the other two did not.  

Hope that helps, and sorry if it's not what you were hoping to hear.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Exactly what I wanted to hear. I think my Airist r2r puts out 2v. It's a single ended dac. Even so, I'll just grab a preamp. Would a passive preamp like a schiit sys work? Thanks for the reply!


LCMusicLover said:


> I don't own/haven't used Clear.  But I do own/have used Utopia with my LP.  Note that the Utopia has the same sensitivity (104 dB @ 1 mW) but higher impedance (80 Ohms vs 55 for Clear).  So Clear should be even louder than Utopia at the same volume setting.
> 
> And I would say that you will probably want to add some kind of attenuation to your chain with them. Of course, this also depends on the output voltage of your source.  My DACs both output ~4 volts in balanced mode, which I use.  If your DAC's output is much lower, than you might not need attenuation.
> 
> ...


----------



## Guidostrunk

I know @atomicbob mentioned that unity gain is between 1 and 2 on the LP.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Guidostrunk said:


> Exactly what I wanted to hear. I think my Airist r2r puts out 2v. It's a single ended dac. Even so, I'll just grab a preamp. Would a passive preamp like a schiit sys work? Thanks for the reply!


I don't have experience with the Sys, but haven't heard bad things about it and I imagine it will be fine.  You might try the Airist without a preamp though.  With half the voltage, power is 4X lower as power changes with the square of voltage. So that's 6 dB quieter for at the same volume setting given 2V input voltage instead of 4V. I can actually test this at home, as both my DACs have SE output which is 2V vs 4V for their balanced outputs.  I'd compare 'comfortable' volume settings for the two inputs.

BTW, note that the preamp I'm using has 2 balanced inputs and 1 SE inputs, but only has balanced output. It's passive also, so when I turn it 'all the way up' volume is the same as if the preamp weren't in the system.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Appreciate that my friend!  





LCMusicLover said:


> I don't have experience with the Sys, but haven't heard bad things about it and I imagine it will be fine.  You might try the Airist without a preamp though.  With half the voltage, power is 4X lower as power changes with the square of voltage. So that's 6 dB quieter for at the same volume setting given 2V input voltage instead of 4V. I can actually test this at home, as both my DACs have SE output which is 2V vs 4V for their balanced outputs.  I'd compare 'comfortable' volume settings for the two inputs.
> 
> BTW, note that the preamp I'm using has 2 balanced inputs and 1 SE inputs, but only has balanced output. It's passive also, so when I turn it 'all the way up' volume is the same as if the preamp weren't in the system.


----------



## Shane D

Guidostrunk said:


> Have a question/concern that you guys may be able to clear up for me.
> 
> One of the common themes mentioned throughout the thread was the output power of this amp. Some were using preamps to help with the volume levels.
> I'll be running a pair of Focal Clear pros with the LP which are very sensitive with a 55ohm impedance. Anyone else using the Clears with this amp? Should I get a preamp to use with it?



My DAC is an SMSL SU-8 and you can turn the volume down in the DAC to help your amp. 
I recently bought a low impedance tube amp that wasn't quite low enough for my Grado's and so I had to drop the volume in the DAC feeding the amp.

Works great for me.


----------



## Rattle

I just use Jriver lower gain 3-6db...


----------



## nwavesailor

Shane D said:


> Works great for me.



Has your LP arrived???


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> I'm probably gonna give balanced a whirl. The problem I had in the past was the hard pan left and right with certain songs that I didn't quite have with single ended. Seems balanced is the way to go though with this amp.
> What tubes are you currently using in the LP? Or your top 3 in the LP lol.


Right now Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 2X mica is probably my favorite ECC88 variant in the LP. Long plate 7316 is my overall favorite tube. You can use volume control if you have it in your dac. I can also use my DAC for overall sound adjustments as well.


----------



## LCMusicLover

TK16 said:


> Right now Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 2X mica is probably my favorite ECC88 variant in the LP.


Note that these is not an 'exact equivalent' and @runeight recommends against using them:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...-by-alex-cavalli.876406/page-66#post-14672677

Not saying that you can't (I have a pair of Tungsram PCC88s which I've tried).  But that post scared me off using them. Of course, YMMV!


----------



## Shane D

nwavesailor said:


> Has your LP arrived???



No!! They usually (Monoprice and Schiit) average about two weeks to my place as I choose the cheapest shipping method. But it is getting frustrating. I ordered Monday, last week. On Tuesday they either picked it up or printed the label. Nothing further until Monday gone when it was received in Melrose Park, Illinois and processed. I would guess it went on a truck aiming for the border on Tuesday morning. As of 30 minutes ago, no update. I am hoping for some kind of update on Monday coming.

On the upside I have lots of new/newish toys to play with for now: SMSL SP200 amp, MAD Ear+ HD II tube amp, Focal Elex's and HiFiman Sundara's. Lot's of fun, but I am itching for that last piece.


----------



## Shane D

nwavesailor said:


> Has your LP arrived???



Just noticed that you and I joined Head-Fi about 11 weeks apart. Seems like 20 years ago. Back when $100.00 seemed like it would buy a nice set of headphones and I had never heard of a headphone amp.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Does anyone know whatever happened to the matching platinum dac?


----------



## Odin412

Guidostrunk said:


> Does anyone know whatever happened to the matching platinum dac?



The Monoprice site says ETA 5/29/2020.


----------



## Zachik

Guidostrunk said:


> Would a passive preamp like a schiit sys work?


Yes!
I use a passive (non-Schiit) preamp, and it works perfectly.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Sweet! Thanks!


Odin412 said:


> The Monoprice site says ETA 5/29/2020.


----------



## lukeap69

Guidostrunk said:


> Sweet! Thanks!


Schiit Sys should work. I have been using one for few years on my Glenn OTL amp which has a very high gain - can't go more than 3 clicks (9 o'clock) on my volume pot.


----------



## LCMusicLover (Apr 25, 2020)

@Guidostrunk

*CORRECTION:*

So this post is non-responsive to the original question. By mistake, I tested what happens if you convert a SE signal to balanced _before_ the amp input and the compare that input to a different balanced input with twice the voltage.

Now, I have tested the SE output from my Gumby _directly _ into the SE input of the LP vs balanced out into balanced in. Volume level is identical, as stated by @Wes S in this post:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...platinum-by-alex-cavalli.876406/post-15577489

*ORIGINAL POST:*



LCMusicLover said:


> ...You might try the Airist without a preamp though.  With half the voltage, power is 4X lower as power changes with the square of voltage. So that's 6 dB quieter for at the same volume setting given 2V input voltage instead of 4V. I can actually test this at home, as both my DACs have SE output which is 2V vs 4V for their balanced outputs.  I'd compare 'comfortable' volume settings for the two inputs...


Easy enough 

Turns out both SE & balanced outputs are active simultaneously on my Gumby, so I used that. Hardest part was actually getting at the back of the Gumby in my rack to plug in the SE output cable.

I could compare by simply switching inputs on the preamp remote. I tried a few different tracks, and the results were pretty consistent. Balanced input resulted in volume which was about ‘one hour’ louder. Meaning that, with Utopia, ‘comfortably loud’ volume was generally around 9:00, and ‘too loud’ was around 9:30 (depending on the track). SE needed to be about 1 hour ‘higher’ for the same volume, so ‘comfortable’ was around 10:00 while ‘too loud’ was around 10:30.

The best part for me was that quiet, night-time listening, level moved from around (or just below) 8:00 to nearly 9:00. That moved it well out of the range where I experienced channel imbalance on the one amp. I know others have reported imbalance further up into the ‘working volume range’ on some units, but I can only report my experience.

Mind this was all done ‘by ear’ with no measurement rig in sight. And, of course, ‘comfortably loud’ and ‘too loud’ will be different for different listeners (the ultimate my ears/your ears). However, you really don’t need pin-point accuracy, just a relative comparison, and I think what I found will hold up for that purpose.

So, sorry for repeating myself but you should definitely try it with your Clear without attenuation on the SE inputs. It turns out that 6 dB makes a pretty audible difference.

BTW, I didn’t really do any critical listening other than to answer the volume question. So no need to ask for an evaluation of the sonic differences between SE & balanced out from the Gumby.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 25, 2020)

Guidostrunk said:


> Have a question/concern that you guys may be able to clear up for me.
> 
> One of the common themes mentioned throughout the thread was the output power of this amp. Some were using preamps to help with the volume levels.
> I'll be running a pair of Focal Clear pros with the LP which are very sensitive with a 55ohm impedance. Anyone else using the Clears with this amp? Should I get a preamp to use with it?


I don't use a preamp with mine and don't have any issues with channel imbalance anywhere, on my 3rd unit.  Seems some of the first units made had channel imbalance issues, but now that I am on my 3rd unit that I just got, those issues are completely gone.  Therefore, I can use a wider range of headphones, because I can start much lower on the dial on the pot.  I would just try it without a preamp first.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 25, 2020)

LCMusicLover said:


> I don't have experience with the Sys, but haven't heard bad things about it and I imagine it will be fine.  You might try the Airist without a preamp though.  With half the voltage, power is 4X lower as power changes with the square of voltage. So that's 6 dB quieter for at the same volume setting given 2V input voltage instead of 4V. I can actually test this at home, as both my DACs have SE output which is 2V vs 4V for their balanced outputs.  I'd compare 'comfortable' volume settings for the two inputs.
> 
> BTW, note that the preamp I'm using has 2 balanced inputs and 1 SE inputs, but only has balanced output. It's passive also, so when I turn it 'all the way up' volume is the same as if the preamp weren't in the system.


@runeight has said that whether you are using balanced (4v) in or se (2v) in from your dac, the volume will be the same, as the se 2v is being doubled while being converted to balanced to equal 4v by the input of the amp.  So whether you are using se or balanced inputs, you get similar results with volume control.  Now, with the outputs on the amp, balanced is clearly the way to go.


----------



## sahmen

I have also never used any preamp with the LP, and have never experienced any issues with channel imbalance or noise. And I use all my cans on the LP, from the relatively easier to drive ones, such as LCDi4 and Hifiman HeKse to the harder to drive 200 Ohm version of the LCD-4. The LP Rocks them all, and rocks them flawlessly too. The attached DAC is the Metrum Acoustics Onyx, and I am also using Metrum Acoustics Ambre as Streamer/Roon endpoint.


----------



## Shane D

nwavesailor said:


> Has your LP arrived???



You must be psychic! I checked my tracking today and it arrived in Halifax around the time you posted that message.  

Hopefully I will get it on Monday.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Wes S said:


> @runeight has said that whether you are using balanced (4v) in or se (2v) in from your dac, the volume will be the same, as the se 2v is being doubled while being converted to balanced to equal 4v by the input of the amp.  So whether you are using se or balanced inputs, you get similar results with volume control.  Now, with the outputs on the amp, balanced is clearly the way to go.


Ah. So my experimental desIgn was flawed — in my set-up I was converting from SE to balanced in my preamp and just using the balanced input on the amp. Doh!


----------



## LCMusicLover

Wes S said:


> @runeight has said that whether you are using balanced (4v) in or se (2v) in from your dac, the volume will be the same, as the se 2v is being doubled while being converted to balanced to equal 4v by the input of the amp.  So whether you are using se or balanced inputs, you get similar results with volume control...


Correct. I tested Gumby SE output direct into the LP SE input compared to Gumby balanced out to LP balanced in. Volume was eye-dentical (nod to My Cousin Vinny).

I edited my previous post.


----------



## elChefe

sahmen said:


> I have also never used any preamp with the LP, and have never experienced any issues with channel imbalance or noise. And I use all my cans on the LP, from the relatively easier to drive ones, such as LCDi4 and Hifiman HeKse to the harder to drive 200 Ohm version of the LCD-4. The LP Rocks them all, and rocks them flawlessly too. The attached DAC is the Metrum Acoustics Onyx, and I am also using Metrum Acoustics Ambre as Streamer/Roon endpoint.


How do the lcd4 sound on the LP? Iv been looking into a tube amp or hybrid for mine and the LP looks like a good option at a fraction of the price of the other I’m looking at.


----------



## LCMusicLover

sahmen said:


> ...I use all my cans on the LP, from the relatively easier to drive ones, such as LCDi4 and Hifiman HeKse...


HEKse doesn’t surprise me — I’ve listened to my KEKv2 w/ LP direct out of Gumby with no problems. But I’m surprised to see you mention the LCDi4. Unless the published spec is way off they are far more efficient than my Utopia (80 Ohms and 104 dB @ 1 mW for Utopia vs 32 Ohms and 110 dB @ 1 mW for LCDi4). LCDi4 via balanced out?


----------



## sahmen

elChefe said:


> How do the lcd4 sound on the LP? Iv been looking into a tube amp or hybrid for mine and the LP looks like a good option at a fraction of the price of the other I’m looking at.



Rock solid!  The LCD-4 sings like a beautiful peacock on the LP, which knows how to make the 4 sing, with all the various lights and shades of its dark gravitas : well extended, and textured lows, thick creamy stately mids, all crowned by spacious, airy details. I see no down sides at all, in the set up I've  described. Of course, other links in the chain of components would matter as well as usual, including the types of music you listen to, although the combo does well with all types of music I throw at it. Still, I tend to think that, because the LCD-4 already hits hard and deep in the low end, it might probably not be ideal using tubes for it that emphasize the low end too much, because things might go overboard a little bit, unless of course, one is an unrepentant no holds barred bass head, in which case all bets are off any way.


----------



## sahmen (Apr 26, 2020)

LCMusicLover said:


> HEKse doesn’t surprise me — I’ve listened to my KEKv2 w/ LP direct out of Gumby with no problems. But I’m surprised to see you mention the LCDi4. Unless the published spec is way off they are far more efficient than my Utopia (80 Ohms and 104 dB @ 1 mW for Utopia vs 32 Ohms and 110 dB @ 1 mW for LCDi4). LCDi4 via balanced out?


Well, don't be surprised.  I just took them out to listen to them back to back with the LCD-4, on the LP, and I think I fell in love with them (The LCDi4s) all over again. For one thing, they sound so much like the LCD-4 that I can repeat everything I have said in the previous post here, word for word, and almost nothing would be off the mark.  When I connected the i4 to the LP, I merely had to lower the volume dial by say 5-8 minutes to make it match the volume of the LCD-4. You haven't asked, but I just realized one surprising respect in which I might sometimes even enjoy the i4 better than the 4 itself, although it shouldn't really be surprising, since it resides in the in-ear sealing property of the i4, which the 4 does not have. I just noticed certain subtleties in the details of the music I listen to that I hear better with i4, than I do with the 4, again, this comes purely from the kind of in-ear seal I get with the i4. I mean the 4 is still the boss in gravitas and overall demeanor, but credit where credit is due.  I hope what I am saying about the i4 doesn't take anything away from the LCD-4.  Oh, and to say the obvious, the LCDi4 is also lighter, which comes with other kinds of advantages, especially, OTG advantages... but I wouldn't want to go off topic, so I'll stop here.

PS:  I think I was mistaken about the -i4's in-ear seal advantage. I just realized that I was listening to the LCD-4 with a Duelund copper cable, and the -i4 with a Norne Draugur Silver when I did the previous comparison.  It was the relatively  superior Silver cable on the -i4 that was producing the higher perceptibility of those subtler details I mentioned.  I just replaced the Duelund copper cable on the LCD-4 with the Norne Silvergarde S3, and any advantage the LCD-i4 seemed to have on the LCD-4 in the retrieval of subtle details has completely vanished. At least this goes to show, once again, why every link in the chain matters. Oh yes! And one more time : The LP is simply superb with the LCD-4, and in almost every way imaginable,

I have been particularly enjoying how it is resolving the music on Nik Bartsch Ronin _Awase_ album  this very minute, but I can think of hundreds of other albums that would resolve in an equally flawless way : Of course being ECM well-recorded material also helps:


----------



## Guidostrunk

Monday can't come fast enough. The waiting game is the hardest part of this hobby. Lol


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Monday can't come fast enough. The waiting game is the hardest part of this hobby. Lol


Hopefully it`s not USPS, heard they have 0.75 cents left in their budget for gas, some packages might get lost by "accident".


----------



## Guidostrunk

LOL! I've been watching the tracking. Looks like I used up that last 75 cents. It's sitting at my post office. 
 


TK16 said:


> Hopefully it`s not USPS, heard they have 0.75 cents left in their budget for gas, some packages might get lost by "accident".


----------



## Shane D

I checked DHL and I expected them to deliver my amp on Monday. I get a call from my front door on Sunday morning and Canada Post is delivering my amp!
Still pretty cold though.


----------



## Shane D

Trying out the LP. Very nice. Not as clear as my tube amp, but the tube amp was far from crystal clear on its first day too.

Nice, full sound. Vocals sound right. With zero burn-in, stock tubes and my Elex everything is there and some nice bass.

Over the next week it will be all LP and I will throw all the headphones at it. 

Fits in nicely too.


----------



## deuter

I got a pair of new Amperex tubes delivered today, 
AMPEREX PQ A-Frame 6DJ8 / ECC88 .

Sounding very detailed and lush.


----------



## elChefe

sahmen said:


> Rock solid!  The LCD-4 sings like a beautiful peacock on the LP, which knows how to make the 4 sing, with all the various lights and shades of its dark gravitas : well extended, and textured lows, thick creamy stately mids, all crowned by spacious, airy details. I see no down sides at all, in the set up I've  described. Of course, other links in the chain of components would matter as well as usual, including the types of music you listen to, although the combo does well with all types of music I throw at it. Still, I tend to think that, because the LCD-4 already hits hard and deep in the low end, it might probably not be ideal using tubes for it that emphasize the low end too much, because things might go overboard a little bit, unless of course, one is an unrepentant no holds barred bass head, in which case all bets are off any way.


Hmm sounds like a winner! I might pic one up, the price compared to all the others iv been looking at is a major bonus! I think the would be a good fit. And I can’t deny I’m def a bass head.. might finally satisfy my sub bass cravings


----------



## deuter

deuter said:


> I got a pair of new Amperex tubes delivered today,
> AMPEREX PQ A-Frame 6DJ8 / ECC88 .
> 
> Sounding very detailed and lush.


Definitely recommend it to anyone looking for new tubes.
The Soundstage  is so precise, one can exactly pin point where an instrument is. eg: 1 mt behind or 2 mts behind.
The separation between instruments is a little too much, people who like cohesive music might not like it.
The bass hits really hard treble is detailed without being grainy.
The sound is on the warmer side of neutral.


----------



## hung031086

The price of the amp just dropped to $550. Im about to purchase it. But Im still debating between this one and lyr3.
Where you guys usually buy tubes in the US ? I've never done that before, so I don't know any good places to do that. I saw upscaleaufio has alot of tubes. Should I buy on that site ?


----------



## TK16

hung031086 said:


> The price of the amp just dropped to $550. Im about to purchase it. But Im still debating between this one and lyr3.
> Where you guys usually buy tubes in the US ? I've never done that before, so I don't know any good places to do that. I saw upscaleaufio has alot of tubes. Should I buy on that site ?


Is that per tube? There's an Ebay seller named ap1278 that I trust, all ballpark testing number vs my tester.
Cool guy, ask for a matched pair of "D-getter Heerlen ECC88, good testing." I found these tubes superior to ECC88 O-getter later years. D getter are almost always 1950's vintage.


----------



## Shane D

hung031086 said:


> The price of the amp just dropped to $550. Im about to purchase it. But Im still debating between this one and lyr3.
> Where you guys usually buy tubes in the US ? I've never done that before, so I don't know any good places to do that. I saw upscaleaufio has alot of tubes. Should I buy on that site ?


That sucks as I just bought it two weeks ago.
I went to pay the bill today and then realized how badly the Canadian dollar has slid.

On the upside, I LOVE this amp!


----------



## LCMusicLover

Shane D said:


> That sucks as I just bought it two weeks ago.
> I went to pay the bill today and then realized how badly the Canadian dollar has slid.
> 
> On the upside, I LOVE this amp!


Focus on the upside ... focus on the positive ... you love this amp ... repeat after me .. focus on ...


----------



## hung031086

TK16 said:


> Is that per tube? There's an Ebay seller named ap1278 that I trust, all ballpark testing number vs my tester.
> Cool guy, ask for a matched pair of "D-getter Heerlen ECC88, good testing." I found these tubes superior to ECC88 O-getter later years. D getter are almost always 1950's vintage.


you meant this one ?


----------



## TK16 (Apr 27, 2020)

hung031086 said:


> you meant this one ?


That's the seller and tube, that tube is not strong testing wise, don't see any matched pair D getters in his listing. You should  send him a message through Ebay.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> That's the seller and tube, that tube is not strong testing wise, don't see any matched pair D getters in his listing. You should  send him a message through Ebay.


Everytime, I have inquired about a tube with that seller, he has been able to find a pair.  I have bought well over 20 pairs of tubes from this seller, without any issues at all.  I highly recommend the ebay seller named ap1278 and his tubes.


----------



## hung031086

TK16 said:


> That's the seller and tube, that tube is not strong testing wise, don't see any matched pair D getters in his listing. You should  send him a message through Ebay.


I just sent him a message to ask about that. How that tube sounds ? I think @Wes S recommened that tube to me. 
Btw I just order a LP. Hope it pairs well with my topping d90.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Just got it all hooked up and letting it stew a bit. Will report back.


----------



## nwavesailor

Guidostrunk said:


> Just got it all hooked up and letting it stew a bit. Will report back.


What tubes are you using for your first listen, Sam?


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> What tubes are you using for your first listen, Sam?


Probably a good % of tubes I used to own. Though the 6201 pinched waist is a no go in the LP.


----------



## TK16

hung031086 said:


> I just sent him a message to ask about that. How that tube sounds ? I think @Wes S recommened that tube to me.
> Btw I just order a LP. Hope it pairs well with my topping d90.


Suck at describing tubes, it's a Heerlen house sound. Better off looking at this page. It describes the various point of origin house sound.

http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm


----------



## Guidostrunk

Believe it or not, stock. I have no tubes atm. Lol


nwavesailor said:


> What tubes are you using for your first listen, Sam?


----------



## nwavesailor

Guidostrunk said:


> Believe it or not, stock. I have no tubes atm. Lol



WOW! When you got 'out of tubes' about 8-10 months ago you REALLY got out of tubes!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

BOY OH BOY! I can't wait to fire some tubes in this thing!


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> BOY OH BOY! I can't wait to fire some tubes in this thing!


It responds quite well, and if one is sticking with 6922 variants, the Sylvania 6922 D Getters sound incredible.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Got some 12au7 adapters coming. My favorite 6922 variant of all time is Valvo CCa(Heerlen). Second is 2492/2493 Brimar Rochester plant(KB/AD).
Still shopping around lol. I'll look into the Sylvanias.


Wes S said:


> It responds quite well, and if one is sticking with 6922 variants, the Sylvania 6922 D Getters sound incredible.


----------



## LCMusicLover

This!


Guidostrunk said:


> ...Second is 2492/2493 Brimar Rochester plant(KB/AD)...


Except for me the 2492s are tied for first w/ Siemens NOS CCa, which I have got to get out of the amp before I consume all their goodness, since I only have one pair.

Swapped Nickel transformers back into my DSHA-3F, so back to Brimar for the LP. I always like to have one tweaked ‘warmer, bassier, fuller’, while the other is ‘airier, crisper, leaner’. (Re-reading, I need to clarify, CCa are the warmer tubes, while 2492s are airier.)

Small differences, but it lets me pretend to be master of my domain


----------



## Wes S (Apr 28, 2020)

Guidostrunk said:


> Got some 12au7 adapters coming. My favorite 6922 variant of all time is Valvo CCa(Heerlen). Second is 2492/2493 Brimar Rochester plant(KB/AD).
> Still shopping around lol. I'll look into the Sylvanias.


The Brimar is my second favorite, and a great place to start.  The Sylvania 6922 D Getters, have better bass (deeper and tighter), and are more transparent than the Brimar, while still being totally non fatiguing with a bigger sound stage too.


----------



## Inoculator

Liquid Platinum is on sale from Monoprice for only $550! New, NOT open-box. Good enough price I practically want to buy another one. I love this amp.


----------



## Wes S

Inoculator said:


> Liquid Platinum is on sale from Monoprice for only $550! New, NOT open-box. Good enough price I practically want to buy another one. I love this amp.


Crazy!!! That literally is a steal.


----------



## m usicguy (May 1, 2020)

Cant find the warranty on this amp, on their website.  Oops,  big graphic, it  Seems people have problems with the power supply going bad or frying amp?


----------



## LCMusicLover

m usicguy said:


> Cant find the warranty on this amp, on their website.  Oops,  big graphic, A  Seems people have problems with the power supply going bad or frying amp?


Actually, I had my first LP fail, but I really don't know what the story was. 

I turned it on one day and got no sound, no red LED (to eventually turn white) on the amp, and no tube glow.  But I did get a blinking green light on the power supply.  

I don't know what that meant, and Monoprice never responded to my query regarding that.  They just said 'return it', so I did.  Got a brand-new replacement pretty quickly.

I will say that I live in a rural location, and it was stormy around that time.  So perhaps a power hit took out the power supply.  Or ... I really just don't know.  So my experience should go into the 'Unexplained failure' category.

No problems with the replacement BTW.


----------



## sahmen

Wes S said:


> The Sylvania 6922 D Getters, have better bass (deeper and tighter), and are more transparent than the Brimar, while still being totally non fatiguing with a bigger sound stage too.



Just got me this pair :

https://www.ebay.com/itm/174246912949

ETA is Monday, so I guess I'll soon see where this particular rabbit hole leads on my LP rig.


----------



## Wes S

sahmen said:


> Just got me this pair :
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/174246912949
> 
> ETA is Monday, so I guess I'll soon see where this particular rabbit hole leads on my LP rig.


That's the right one.  I saw that listing and that was just a single?


----------



## deuter

Wes S said:


> That's the right one.  I saw that listing and that was just a single?


Seems that’s it’s only one tube, too high of a price. What if fails ?


----------



## sahmen

Wes S said:


> That's the right one.  I saw that listing and that was just a single?


Well, it used to be single, until it wasn't  I contacted the seller to say I wanted a pair, about a week ago, when he had only one of them. And he promised to let me know when he finds another one. Well yesterday, he did find another one, and send me an e-mail. $140 for the pair was the offer I made, which he accepted, and the rest is Sylvania D getter history


----------



## sahmen

deuter said:


> Seems that’s it’s only one tube, too high of a price. What if fails ?


It is not.  It actually says next to the photo :  "*0 available / **2 sold*"...  Both were sold to yours truly for a total of $140, which is the offer I made, although he was originally asking for $190 (i.e. $95 a piece).


----------



## Wes S (Apr 29, 2020)

sahmen said:


> It is not.  It actually says next to the photo :  "*0 available / **2 sold*"...  Both were sold to yours truly for a total of $140, which is the offer I made, although he was originally asking for $190 (i.e. $95 a piece).


Nice!  That is great, and I look forward to hearing your impressions.  Assuming the 2 tubes are matched, that is a strange way to list them.  Had I noticed that there were 2 matched tubes, I would have bought those a while ago.


----------



## sahmen (Apr 29, 2020)

Wes S said:


> Nice!  That is great, and I look forward to hearing your impressions.  Assuming the 2 tubes are matched, that is a strange way to list them.  Had I noticed that there were 2 matched tubes, I would have bought those a while ago.


There was actually only 1 of them listed previously. I had told the seller that I needed a pair and he  promised me that he would look for another one and let me know when he finds it. So when he found the second one, he simply doubled the quantity in the listing and sent me the email alert so that I can buy it. So it is this weird history of this particular transaction that explains how it is listed.

Still, I have sent another e-mail to the seller to confirm that the two he sold me are properly matched. I'll see what he says.

****PS and Update*: Here's the response I just received from the seller to my request for confirmation of matching status:

"You're good to go, this pair has no lopsided triodes which is what buyers ask about, I test Gm% which is THE test you want done, as well as audio circuit tested before I shipped them out, which is tied w/ first as most important lol.

Keep in mind though that all these old stock tubes need a break-in period of 48 hours at least (or several sessions). Transconductance numbers often change after a tubes fully broken in, usually for the better. Plus the sound changes for the better.

Either way, all systems are different w/ different plate voltages, so if either of the tubes gives you an issue, just let me know before hitting up ebay, and ill send a replacement out, as ive got more arriving.

regards"


----------



## Wes S (Apr 29, 2020)

sahmen said:


> There was actually only 1 of them listed previously. I had told the seller that I needed a pair and he  promised me that he would look for another one and let me know when he finds it. So when he found the second one, he simply doubled the quantity in the listing and sent me the email alert so that I can buy it. So it is this weird history of this particular transaction that explains how it is listed.
> 
> Still, I have sent another e-mail to the seller to confirm that the two he sold me are properly matched. I'll see what he says.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a great seller!  I have him saved now.  I like to keep record of good tube dealers on ebay, and this guy just got added to the list.  Not sure about the transconductance numbers getting better when broken in, but the sound sure can change for the better.


----------



## Shane D

I got my Amperex tubes today. I am going to wait a week or two to put them in.


----------



## pichu

Hey all, any tube amps that stand out as being better to you than the Liquid Platinum. My amp is the last part of my upgrade chain and trying to decide if I should stay with the Liquid Platinum or not


----------



## TK16

Shane D said:


> I got my Amperex tubes today. I am going to wait a week or two to put them in.


Do you know what tester was used in testing the tubes? If NOS testing is 12,500 I'd give them a quick listen for noise/microphonics. Testing seems to be rather low numbers based on 12,500 Gm readings.I've had lower testing tubes that tested mediocre to sound absolutely fantastic but some that didn't have any magic left in the tube. Think you're ok though, got life left in the tubes.


----------



## deuter

pichu said:


> Hey all, any tube amps that stand out as being better to you than the Liquid Platinum. My amp is the last part of my upgrade chain and trying to decide if I should stay with the Liquid Platinum or not


This amp is the top one you can get, I have tried numerous amps over the last few years and this one leads the way.


----------



## Shane D (Apr 29, 2020)

TK16 said:


> Do you know what tester was used in testing the tubes? If NOS testing is 12,500 I'd give them a quick listen for noise/microphonics. Testing seems to be rather low numbers based on 12,500 Gm readings.I've had lower testing tubes that tested mediocre to sound absolutely fantastic but some that didn't have any magic left in the tube. Think you're ok though, got life left in the tubes.



I have no idea what he used. Apparently it is an old business in Ontario and the founder is not well. His kids are liquidating the stock.

They were pretty cheap at 4 for $100.00, shipped, in Canuck bucks.

I will try them in a week or two.

Do those numbers make sense to you? Are they good? What should I be aiming for?

9000 9000
9500 9500
8500 8500
8500 8850


----------



## TK16

Shane D said:


> I have no idea what he used. Apparently it is an old business in Ontario and the founder is not well. His kids are liquidating the stock.
> 
> They were pretty cheap at 4 for $100.00, shipped, in Canuck bucks.
> 
> ...


Not awful testing, not great testing if 12,500 Gm is NOS. Should have plenty of life in them, that's why I recommend testing for noise now.


----------



## LCMusicLover

pichu said:


> Hey all, any tube amps that stand out as being better to you than the Liquid Platinum. My amp is the last part of my upgrade chain and trying to decide if I should stay with the Liquid Platinum or not


I see you have Auteur.  Lots of love for the Pendant paired with various ZMF cans.  For me, between my LP and my SS DSHA-3F, my _a.nervosa_ has been in remission as far as amps are concerned.  But then again, I've never been a fan of a wet sound.  Plus, I can tell that I might easily spend 3 - 4 grand on an amp and then the same again (or more) on tubes -- that's just not feasible.


----------



## sahmen

I have been wondering why we do not have the best sounding tubes for the LP in some kind of ranked order somewhere.  After all, it has been nearly a year and a half since the LP was released, and after so many months discussing tube rolling options, one would normally expect there to be some kind of consensus about, at the very least, the top five types of tubes that sound best with the LP, especially since we are all using the same amp.  In my case, I have mostly gone by random individual recommendations, amassing a whole set of tubes, some of which I have never even used before.  

To be frank, some of those I have tested on my LP have not sounded as awesome as I expected them to be by following the recommendation of others, but that is not too surprising, since my chain of components is different from those of the recommenders. Still I have also received some recommendations that turned out to be really awesome (*Reflektor Holy Grail '75 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields*, and some pre-1960 Telefunkens: 1957-1959 - Gold pins, Gold rods, Fat O Getter) and that's how I identified what I consider to be the two best sounding sets of tubes that I keep rotating on my LP.  

I am far from claiming that those are the two best sounding tubes for the LP anywhere.  In fact, I am not sure that they are the two best sounding types among those I have amassed in the past year, as I have not had the time to test many sets that were recommended to me by others in any thorough way. The mentioned Reflektors and Telefunkens were just the first two I auditioned that seemed to get most things right, as compared to the stock tubes that came with the LP, and the gold lions which were the first replacement tubes I bought.  I have mostly been too busy listening to the Reflector Holy grails and the Telefunkens during the little leisure time I have to tinker with other sets and audition them. As far as I am concerned, everything remains to be determined.

I still think it would be helpful if we had some kind of consensus about the top 5 or top 10 best sounding Liquid Platinum tubes (however provisional the ranking might be), which could serve as some kind of rough guide for new owners, and even old owners alike. I know that there are variables in subjective preferences and all that, but there are also variables when it comes to preferences in amps, and that has not prevented most of us from settling on the consensus about how awesome-sounding the LP itself is at its price point, when compared with other amps. I would personally create some kind of forum for that ranking of LP tubes, if I was as knowledgeable on the subject of tubes as some other posters on this forum are, or appear to be. However, I started experimenting with tubes only when  I purchased the LP, and do not consider myself much of an expert on the subject, alas.


----------



## pichu

LCMusicLover said:


> I see you have Auteur.  Lots of love for the Pendant paired with various ZMF cans.  For me, between my LP and my SS DSHA-3F, my _a.nervosa_ has been in remission as far as amps are concerned.  But then again, I've never been a fan of a wet sound.  Plus, I can tell that I might easily spend 3 - 4 grand on an amp and then the same again (or more) on tubes -- that's just not feasible.



The Pendant and Glenn amps were the two tube amps I wa slooking at. It's a shame i havent been able to hear them as ive heard good about both. I could also keep the LP and look into tube rolling it.... at this point maybe that is the best option


----------



## LCMusicLover

pichu said:


> The Pendant and Glenn amps were the two tube amps I wa slooking at. It's a shame i havent been able to hear them as ive heard good about both. I could also keep the LP and look into tube rolling it.... at this point maybe that is the best option


If you're still on the stock tubes, that probably makes sense.  Since LP is a 'tube-hybrid', tube-rolling doesn't have the same impact as it does on 'full' tube amps.  But it can still move the sound around some and enhance or reduce various characteristics. Frankly, I wouldn't be as high on the LP if I could only use the stock tubes.  Mind that's JMHO, and there are some who disagree, although I think they are in the minority.

It _can_ be a challenge to find the 'right' tubes for a given set of cans and your musical tastes, since there are so many options and opinions out there. 

GLTY


----------



## Malcolm Riverside

pichu said:


> The Pendant and Glenn amps were the two tube amps I wa slooking at. It's a shame i havent been able to hear them as ive heard good about both. I could also keep the LP and look into tube rolling it.... at this point maybe that is the best option


I owned the Pendant and LP at the same time. Admittedly I didn’t do a lot of tube-rolling with the LP but that was because I thought the Pendant was a better amp in just about every way. It’s got a lot of power, way more tube-rolling options, plays well with lots of different headphones, and has a sound that is almost hybrid-like in its speed, detail retrieval and sonic presentation. It’s much more expensive though! But it’s built with a level of craftsmanship and care that the LP can’t approach. It speaks highly of the Cavalli though that it is still in the conversation with tube amps costing a lot more.


----------



## deuter

Malcolm Riverside said:


> I owned the Pendant and LP at the same time. Admittedly I didn’t do a lot of tube-rolling with the LP but that was because I thought the Pendant was a better amp in just about every way. It’s got a lot of power, way more tube-rolling options, plays well with lots of different headphones, and has a sound that is almost hybrid-like in its speed, detail retrieval and sonic presentation. It’s much more expensive though! But it’s built with a level of craftsmanship and care that the LP can’t approach. It speaks highly of the Cavalli though that it is still in the conversation with tube amps costing a lot more.


I haven't heard the Pendant, but as mentioned earlier in the thread have experience with a wide array of tube amps, including Leben, Woo, Eddie Current and Blue Hawaii to name some.
And the Liquid Platinum surpasses them all in my system.
The level of textured detail retrieval along with Slam is something one cannot stop listening.
Don't get me started on the imaging and soundstage.

I'am usually in the more expensive the better camp, but not in the case of the Liquid Platinum. This is Head-Fi's best kept secret. Lets try and maintain that!


----------



## m usicguy

So i have had my LP for two days.   Used the stock tubes for two days.   Then switch to Golden lion match pair.  Much smoother.   Im still burning in this amp.  So far.  Really good.  Lively and not to dry.  Very good balanced sound stage.   I wanted to buy this amp to drive really hard Planars.  Balanced

m usicguy


----------



## Wes S

m usicguy said:


> So i have had my LP for two days.   Used the stock tubes for two days.   Then switch to Golden lion match pair.  Much smoother.   Im still burning in this amp.  So far.  Really good.  Lively and not to dry.  Very good balanced sound stage.   I wanted to buy this amp to drive really hard Planars.  Balanced
> 
> m usicguy


Nice!  Roll some even better NOS tubes, and you will really be surprised.  This amp and hard to drive planers, go together like peanut butter and jelly.  There is a magical synergy with my ZMF Ori, that blows me away every time I listen.


----------



## sahmen

Wes S said:


> Sounds like a great seller!  I have him saved now.  I like to keep record of good tube dealers on ebay, and this guy just got added to the list.  Not sure about the transconductance numbers getting better when broken in, but the sound sure can change for the better.


D-Getters (Sylvania) arrived, and they do not disappoint at all.  The weight, extension, and tactility of the bass notes are what jump out at me out of the box. I also like the additional tactility of drum kicks.  The highs are clear too, but it is going to take a little while for me to understand their character better, in comparison with those of my other favorites, such as the '56-59 gold pin/gold rod telefunkens. So far I am seeing no obvious downsides and I think that's already great. Does my seller's claims about their improvement with hours of burn-in check out with you, in your experience with these tubes?


----------



## Wes S

sahmen said:


> D-Getters (Sylvania) arrived, and they do not disappoint at all.  The weight, extension, and tactility of the bass notes are what jump out at me out of the box. I also like the additional tactility of drum kicks.  The highs are clear too, but it is going to take a little while for me to understand their character better, in comparison with those of my other favorites, such as the '56-59 gold pin/gold rod telefunkens. So far I am seeing no obvious downsides and I think that's already great. Does my seller's claims about their improvement with hours of burn-in check out with you, in your experience with these tubes?


Nice!  Like most NOS tubes, they will sound their best after about 30-50 hours of use.


----------



## Shane D (May 10, 2020)

One week with my stock tubes and I LOVE this amp. Every other amp, except my tube, seems like it might as well leave. Today, I am going to try my Amperex tubes.

I am currently listening to my Fostex TH-610's. This is the best that they have ever sounded. Tomorrow I will be installing a driver tune-up from Lawton. I passed on new cups as they are not cheap and I am still not sure I love these headphones. They even sound good out of the SE output. I ordered a balanced cable from Periapt. Not a bad price ($99.00), until you start converting everything to Canadian dollars.


----------



## Guidostrunk

How hot does your Platinum get? Mines pretty toasty. For me it's one of the toastiest I've owned. Lol


----------



## Shane D

Guidostrunk said:


> How hot does your Platinum get? Mines pretty toasty. For me it's one of the toastiest I've owned. Lol



It gets very hot. I have a tube amp but the only things that gets hot on that are the actual tubes.


----------



## Rattle

It does get warm. I don't have anything over it and it's not on a shelf with no clearance over it. It really helps if it's out in the open. It runs about normal for a tube amp IMO.


----------



## nwavesailor (May 11, 2020)

I'd say my LP get warm (it is in the open) NOT hot. The tubes can get hot but not the chassis.
I am primarily using 12AU7's, WE 396A and Tube Monger Mini Mullards that don't get hot at all and on ocassion some 6922 / 7308 / 6DJ8 types.


----------



## sahmen (May 11, 2020)

The tubes do get hot as they should, but the chassis itself only gets a bit warm to the touch. Never alarmingly hot. My Uptone Audio Etherregen and its LPS 1.2 power supply both sit next to the LP, and sometimes even on top of it, and they both get much, much, hotter than anything the LP's chassis might work up or muster while in use. My LP itself sits in wide open space, and has plenty of air moving around it at all times, and that should be taken into account, even though the same air does not seem to do much for  or against the heat that the Uptone Audio units generate while in use.

Might the temperature of the chassis depend on the type of accessories in use  (in this case tubes, and/or power supply) ?  That is certainly possible, but I do not have enough expertise on the subject to make that call in a definitive way,

@runeight would certainly know more about this..


----------



## deuter

My chassis gets hot and the tubes are super hot.
I use 6922’s and 7308’s which are about the top tubes you can get.


----------



## nxxo (May 11, 2020)




----------



## Guidostrunk (May 12, 2020)

Doing some rolling atm. Has anyone given the CBS 5814a a whirl? It's a ridiculously good tube. In the process of comparing them and a pair of 59 Heerlen 7316 large O getter(thanks Bill!)
Have more toobs incoming as well. Lol


----------



## nwavesailor

Guidostrunk said:


> Do you still find your LP getting really hot with the adapters in place and tubes totally exposed, Sam?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Actually I find it cooler. The metal housing was a lot hotter before.


----------



## Ham Sandwich

Guidostrunk said:


> How hot does your Platinum get? Mines pretty toasty. For me it's one of the toastiest I've owned. Lol



My Liquid Fire gets much more toasty. After the Liquid Fire has been on for a few hours I can put my hand several inches above it and feel the warmth. The underside of the audio shelf above the amp actually gets warm. Old rack had that shelf 4.5 inches above the top of the Liquid Fire with the left and farther right sides closed in. New audio rack has that shelf 7 inches above the Liquid Fire and open on all sides. 4.5 inches above the amp was not enough space for cooling. It's a toasty running amp.

In comparison the Liquid Platinum is just warm if you put your hand directly above it or in contact with it. Doesn't heat up the shelf area above and around it enough that I notice things might be warm.


----------



## nwavesailor

Guidostrunk said:


> Actually I find it cooler. The metal housing was a lot hotter before.



I figured with the tubes elevated you should be running a bit cooler!


----------



## deuter

nwavesailor said:


> I figured with the tubes elevated you should be running a bit cooler!


That’s right, my unit is no longer the heat machine it used to be after I got some socket savers to raise the tubes.
The amp looks the part this way and it doesn’t run very hot too.


----------



## Odin412

One of the qualities of the Liquid Platinum that keeps impressing me is how it seems to tame headphones that can be a bit bright and harsh with other amps. This weekend I was listening to my Beyerdynamic T1 V2, which isn't the most forgiving of headphones, but with the Liuquid Platinum it sounds spectacular.


----------



## raphaelchan

Just ordered one on sale $549.99 at Monoprice https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=304&cp_id=30405&cs_id=3040505&p_id=33305&seq=1&format=2 cant wait to try it with my Beyerdynamic T1 V2


----------



## deuter

raphaelchan said:


> Just ordered one on sale $549.99 at Monoprice https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=304&cp_id=30405&cs_id=3040505&p_id=33305&seq=1&format=2 cant wait to try it with my Beyerdynamic T1 V2


Its a steal at that price, as long as you have a decent DAC. I cannot think of another amp that sounds so wonderful.


----------



## raphaelchan

deuter said:


> Its a steal at that price, as long as you have a decent DAC. I cannot think of another amp that sounds so wonderful.


right now i can only afford to use Jot 's AK4490 Balanced DAC. Im still keeping my Jot. would that be decent enough DAC?


----------



## deuter

raphaelchan said:


> right now i can only afford to use Jot 's AK4490 Balanced DAC. Im still keeping my Jot. would that be decent enough DAC?


Absolutely, Schiit Audio products are well designed.
If you hear anything better in future, remember to upgrade the DAC and not the amp.
Also buy the most expensive headphones you can afford, that will make the most improvement in the sound and the Liquid Platinum can drive them all.
Potentially get some Gold Lion 6922’s or some Amperex 7308 tubes and your set.


----------



## Ham Sandwich

raphaelchan said:


> Just ordered one on sale $549.99 at Monoprice https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=304&cp_id=30405&cs_id=3040505&p_id=33305&seq=1&format=2 cant wait to try it with my Beyerdynamic T1 V2



Get a balanced cable for your Beyer T1 V2 if you don't already have one. The LP is a balanced amp and sounds best with the balanced headphone output. The single-ended output of the LP doesn't demonstrate the true sound qualities of the amp. You mentioned you have a Jotunheim so I assume you've already got the T1 wired for balanced.


----------



## raphaelchan

Ham Sandwich said:


> Get a balanced cable for your Beyer T1 V2 if you don't already have one. The LP is a balanced amp and sounds best with the balanced headphone output. The single-ended output of the LP doesn't demonstrate the true sound qualities of the amp. You mentioned you have a Jotunheim so I assume you've already got the T1 wired for balanced.


Thanks for the advice. I have been driving the T1 v2 with balance output with the Jot. newbie here, I am using Jot as a Dac to drive LP. do I turn the volume of Jot all the way up and adjust volume with the LP? and where can i find a listing of tubes that fit my LP? thanks so much for helping.


----------



## LCMusicLover

raphaelchan said:


> ...I am using Jot as a Dac to drive LP. do I turn the volume of Jot all the way up and adjust volume with the LP? ...


With your setup, I'd be setting the Jot volume to a level where you have a good bit of usable range on the LP volume. Looks like the Jot output is only 2 volts, so you can probably accomplish that with the Jot volume most of the way up -- depends on your listening habits and how 'loud' your preferred tracks are.

Personally, I set my LP @ 12:00 and then adjust volume on my preamp which sits between my DACs & amps. But both my DACs produce 4 volts, so I have to attenuate a fair amount (-20 to -30 dB) to make that work.


> ...and where can i find a listing of tubes that fit my LP? thanks so much for helping.


That's a very long list 

This thread will help:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monoprice-liquid-platinum-tube-rollers.898852/

Basically, you need 6922 or equivalent:  ECC88, E88CC, E188CC, CCa, CV-2492, 7308, 6DJ8, 6N23P...

This might also help:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/692...922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes.761078/

If you search for '6922 tube review' on Google you'll discover approximately 1 billion webpages, each of which promises to identify the 'Holy Grail' tube  

GLTY!


----------



## Guidostrunk

According to @atomicbob  unity gain on the LP is between 1 and 2 O'clock. I'd set your LP around 130 and dial in your jot to your preferred listening level.


----------



## raphaelchan

LCMusicLover said:


> With your setup, I'd be setting the Jot volume to a level where you have a good bit of usable range on the LP volume. Looks like the Jot output is only 2 volts, so you can probably accomplish that with the Jot volume most of the way up -- depends on your listening habits and how 'loud' your preferred tracks are.
> 
> Personally, I set my LP @ 12:00 and then adjust volume on my preamp which sits between my DACs & amps. But both my DACs produce 4 volts, so I have to attenuate a fair amount (-20 to -30 dB) to make that work.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much


----------



## raphaelchan

Guidostrunk said:


> According to @atomicbob  unity gain on the LP is between 1 and 2 O'clock. I'd set your LP around 130 and dial in your jot to your preferred listening level.


trying that out now thank you!


----------



## thisisvv (May 21, 2020)

I have a question i see RCA output from LP , so can LP act as preamp.... i want something that can be used as headphone amp and Preamp connected to power amp for my desktop speakers...

after reading seems not possible...this is not preamp.


----------



## raphaelchan

thisisvv said:


> I have a question i see RCA output from LP , so can LP act as preamp.... i want something that can be used as headphone amp and Preamp connected to power amp for my desktop speakers...
> 
> after reading seems not possible...this is not preamp.


I am confused. what is the use for RCA output for? I read on product page someone answered that it is for passthrough. Does it mean the signal inputed is not processed by the tubes? is it a straight out signal from the RCA input to RCA ouput?


----------



## Rattle

Rca out is a straight passthrough. Don't have to power up the LP to use it. It is quite transparent. I've compared it to a pre amp or 2 and it does an excellent job of passing the signal right to another headphone amp without affecting sound.


----------



## Wes S (May 21, 2020)

The Liquid Platinum is not a preamp, and does not have that function available.  You can use the se output as a passthrough, but you have no volume control or tube flavor.


----------



## Inoculator

Also remember that if you are using the balanced input on the LP, it will not passthrough to the RCA outs. To remedy this issue I went for a Freya S, incredible versatile device for using a variety of SE and balanced inputs and outputs.


----------



## rmsanger (May 21, 2020)

I have the following tubes that work on the Schiit Lyr will all of them work on the Liquid Platinum?

'75 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields
Siemens E188CC
Mullard CV4109
Telefunken ECC88

Also are there any recommended DACs in the $300 - $600 price range that are the meta/go to suggestions to pair with this amp?   Bifrost 2, Topping D90, SMSL M400 would all be at the high end... Wasn't sure if there was anything a bit cheaper that was fully balance and a great pairing.


----------



## LCMusicLover

rmsanger said:


> I have the following tubes that work on the Schiit Lyr will all of them work on the Liquid Platinum?
> 
> '75 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields
> Siemens E188CC
> ...


I believe those are all equivalents (actually had to look up the CV4109).  I've used the Siemens E188CC in my LP to good effect


----------



## Marlowe (May 22, 2020)

raphaelchan said:


> Just ordered one on sale $549.99 at Monoprice https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=304&cp_id=30405&cs_id=3040505&p_id=33305&seq=1&format=2 cant wait to try it with my Beyerdynamic T1 V2


I've been planning to get this amp eventually as my probable end game amp (since I'm retired on a fixed income, it would be very hard for me to afford an amp truly an upgrade from this) and that sale price has been enticing me for a week. But I'm a little short of money after ordering a ZMF Aeolus earlier this month so was trying to resist until next month. I was contemplating it again earlier this evening and put it in the cart to check shipping and sales tax. When I went to checkout, I saw a promo code for it, though no details. I figured it wouldn't work with the current sale, but it wouldn't hurt to try. Much to my surprise, applying the code brought the price down to $499.99 (plus $33 NJ sales tax and free shipping). I checked out before they could change their mind. Frankly, buying this amp for 500 bucks feels almost like stealing. If anyone else has been contemplating this, it appears that now's the time.


----------



## Wes S

Marlowe said:


> I've been planning to get this amp eventually as my probable end game amp (since I'm retired on a fixed income, it would be very hard for me to afford an amp truly an upgrade from this) and that sale price has been enticing me for a week. But I'm a little short of money after ordering a ZMF Aeolus earlier this month so was trying to resist until next month. I was contemplating it again earlier this evening and put it in the cart to check shipping and sales tax. When I went to checkout, I saw a promo code for it, though no details. I figured it wouldn't work with the current sale, but it wouldn't hurt to try. Much to my surprise, applying the code brought the price down to $499.99 (plus $33 NJ sales tax and free shipping). I checked out out before they could change their mind. Frankly, buying this amp for 500 bucks feels almost like stealing. If anyone else has been contemplating this, it appears that now's the time.


For $500 you are stealing it!  Congrats, on your purchase.  This is my end game hybrid, and the Aelous sounds incredible on it.  I am left wanting nothing more, and completely blown away everytime I listen with that combo.  The DAC makes a difference as well.  What DAC do you plan to use?


----------



## Marlowe (May 22, 2020)

Wes S said:


> For $500 you are stealing it!  Congrats, on your purchase.  This is my end game hybrid, and the Aelous sounds incredible on it.  I am left wanting nothing more, and completely blown away everytime I listen with that combo.  The DAC makes a difference as well.  What DAC do you plan to use?


Strangely enough, I'm not sure about the DAC--and that story is one of the reasons I was ready to buy the LP yesterday. I am currently using a SMSL SU-8 connected via XLR to a THX 789 in my music setup (I also have a Schiit Modi Multibit in my Blu-ray/TV setup). About five weeks ago, I bought a Topping D70 on Drop for only $350 (I had a $50 Drop credit I had to use or lose); it was supposed to ship by yesterday. Instead of a shipping notice, I received an extremely vague email from Drop yesterday stating that shipping may be delayed for reasons not specified and they would let me know if the delay would exceed 30 days. Frankly, I'm not a patient person and am already on what could be a very long wait for the Aeolus. Since I am a more than little tired of spending what is, for me, large amounts of money and getting nothing in return, I immediately took advantage of Drop's offer to contact Customer Support and cancel. The automated response stated they won't be able to get back to me for 5-7 business days, so the refund is likely a few weeks away.This is what put me in a buying mood for the LP yesterday.

With the refund, I should have a budget for a new decent DAC in mid-June. My current candidates are the Denafrips Ares II (with a stated 10 day delay before shipping from Singapore), the Schiit Bifrost 2 (also backordered ATM), and the Topping D90 MQA. Although my heart is pulled to the multibit goodness of the Ares and Bifrost, I am currently leaning to the D90 MQA since my music listening is almost exclusively via Tidal. If you have any views about these or other candidates (these are all within a few bucks of $800 including tax and shipping, the very most I can spend), I'd be happy to hear it. Apologies for the ridiculously long reply.

Update: I got an email from Drop this afternoon stating that my order has been cancelled and a refund issued, though as usual it won't hit my account for 2-3 business days. Cannot argue with that response time or result. Thanks, Drop.


----------



## rmsanger

Marlowe said:


> Strangely enough, I'm not sure about the DAC--and that story is one of the reasons I was ready to buy the LP yesterday. I am currently using a SMSL SU-8 connected via XLR to a THX 789 in my music setup (I also have a Schiit Modi Multibit in my Blu-ray/TV setup). About five weeks ago, I bought a Topping D70 on Drop for only $350 (I had a $50 Drop credit I had to use or lose); it was supposed to ship by yesterday. Instead of a shipping notice, I received an extremely vague email from Drop yesterday stating that shipping may be delayed for reasons not specified and they would let me know if the delay would exceed 30 days. Frankly, I'm not a patient person and am already on what could be a very long wait for the Aeolus. Since I am a more than little tired of spending what is, for me, large amounts of money and getting nothing in return, I immediately took advantage of Drop's offer to contact Customer Support and cancel. The automated response stated they won't be able to get back to me for 5-7 business days, so the refund is likely a few weeks away.This is what put me in a buying mood for the LP yesterday.
> 
> With the refund, I should have a budget for a new decent DAC in mid-June. My current candidates are the Denafrips Ares II (with a stated 10 day delay before shipping from Singapore), the Schiit Bifrost 2 (also backordered ATM), and the Topping D90 MQA. Although my heart is pulled to the multibit goodness of the Ares and Bifrost, I am currently leaning to the D90 MQA since my music listening is almost exclusively via Tidal. If you have any views about these or other candidates (these are all within a few bucks of $800 including tax and shipping, the very most I can spend), I'd be happy to hear it. Apologies for the ridiculously long reply.


Watching for responses to your post as I'm thinking the Bifrost 2, D90, and M400 will be the current go to moves for current DAC options.


----------



## omniweltall

Just realized that this amp is selling new at USD500. That should move the used prices.


----------



## Marlowe

rmsanger said:


> Watching for responses to your post as I'm thinking the Bifrost 2, D90, and M400 will be the current go to moves for current DAC options.


Yeah, I guess the brand new SMSL M400 should be on my list too. It's $10 more than the D90 MQA and uses pretty much the same tech: e..g., decodes MQA, AKM 4499 chip, new XMOS XU 216 chip, etc. I haven't seen any reviews yet, but it probably boils down to aesthetics--they actually look quite different. (Though it hasn't been "reviewed" in ASR yet, I noted that the cultists are excited that manufacturer specs show it performs a wee bit better than the D90. Translation: although distortion in both DACS is beyond the capability of human ears to detect, test tones run through the DACs produce slightly better distortion numbers on the M400. Numfar! Do the dance of joy.)


----------



## sahmen (May 22, 2020)

omniweltall said:


> Just realized that this amp is selling new at USD500. That should move the used prices.



No kidding! It is giving me some ideas as to when to purchase the Liquid Gold X, when it comes out.  All this new sale is doing is making me feel as if I pulled the trigger on the LP way too early by, a margin of more than 18 months...  Of course, I do not regret getting the LP when I did (Nov. 2018), given all the enjoyment it has given me since then, and is still continuing to keep on giving...  However precisely because it keeps on giving, I might not be too quick to jump in on the Gold X when it arrives (i.e. assuming I can have the discipline to control my trigger finger for a long time at all, which remains to be seen!)... But, with all said and done, the LP at $499 is an epic and insane deal, under any sun!  Bravo Monoprice :


----------



## mixman

Gotta admit, I wasn’t thrilled when I owned this originally but at this price it has me thinking of giving another try.


----------



## rmsanger (May 22, 2020)

I’m torn between buying the liquid Platinum + Bifrost 2 

Or just getting this

https://drop.com/buy/violectric-v280-headphone-amp

And keeping my bifrost 1 + lyr


----------



## Shane D (May 22, 2020)

rmsanger said:


> I’m torn between buying the liquid Platinum + Bifrost 2
> 
> Or just getting this
> 
> ...



That amp is nice, but over $2,000.00 in Canuck bucks landed. Too rich for me.

The LP has dropped Again! That is a no-brainer at $500.00US. I love mine and I paid $599.00.

I was also thinking about the BF2, but the waiting is ridiculous.


----------



## Slim1970

mixman said:


> Gotta admit, I wasn’t thrilled when I owned this originally but at this price it has me thinking of giving another try.


No kidding, this is not a bad buy at all. The only thing that bothers me is finding a set of tubes that I like with all of different headphones.


----------



## rmsanger

Shane D said:


> That amp is nice, but over $2,000.00 in Canuck bucks landed. Too rich for me.
> 
> The LP has dropped Again! That is a no-brainer at $500.00US. I love mine and I paid $599.00.
> 
> I was also thinking about the BF2, but the waiting is ridiculous.



For me it would be $1200 US for the V280 from drop.  Or I can get the LP for $550 through Monoprice and BF2 for $699 so around the same price I can get the better amp or a solid amp + dac.   I already have the Lyr 1 + BF1 so I can supplement that with the V280 for now and upgrade DAC later.  I'm not sure the Lyr 1 -> LP will be that big of an upgrade but I do have some nice tubes that would work on both.  The V280 might just give me a different sound signature and I can live with the Lyr 1 as an alternate.  Not sure what to do but I'm wrestling with the ideas.


----------



## Shane D

rmsanger said:


> For me it would be $1200 US for the V280 from drop.  Or I can get the LP for $550 through Monoprice and BF2 for $699 so around the same price I can get the better amp or a solid amp + dac.   I already have the Lyr 1 + BF1 so I can supplement that with the V280 for now and upgrade DAC later.  I'm not sure the Lyr 1 -> LP will be that big of an upgrade but I do have some nice tubes that would work on both.  The V280 might just give me a different sound signature and I can live with the Lyr 1 as an alternate.  Not sure what to do but I'm wrestling with the ideas.


If you're in the US, the LP is $500.00 flat.
And the BF2 is on hold forever.

I was looking at a used Violectric that is half the price of the Drop model. But I have just bought two expensive (for me) amps and I am gun shy. However it would complete my amp collection for a long time to come. Hmmmm.


----------



## nwavesailor

There will ALWAYS be more shiny objects, Shane! (he says while waiting for a T4 hybrid tube amp to ship!  )


----------



## pichu

rmsanger said:


> I’m torn between buying the liquid Platinum + Bifrost 2
> 
> Or just getting this
> 
> ...


Hey man!

I just wanted to give some input on the Vioelectric stuff. They are heavier in the bass and drown out vocals more than any other amp ive owned. I sold in favor of the Liquid Platinum.

If you like heavier bass in your sound you can go for it, but i felt like it took a lot away from the airiness and openness i look for in my music.

Cheers,

Jonathan


----------



## Shane D

pichu said:


> Hey man!
> 
> I just wanted to give some input on the Vioelectric stuff. They are heavier in the bass and drown out vocals more than any other amp ive owned. I sold in favor of the Liquid Platinum.
> 
> ...



That is a surprise and the first time I ever heard that. Which model did you have? What was your chain? Balanced or SE?

I have never heard anything except that it is the "bestest" SS amp ever.   It seems to be HIGHLY recommended in the 1K to 2K category.


----------



## pichu

Shane D said:


> That is a surprise and the first time I ever heard that. Which model did you have? What was your chain? Balanced or SE?
> 
> I have never heard anything except that it is the "bestest" SS amp ever.   It seems to be HIGHLY recommended in the 1K to 2K category.



Ive had the V280 and the V200. Its not that the amp is bad, just not my thing. Ive ran them both balanced and SE. With SMSL, Schiit, Holo Audio DACs. I know theres a couple guys in some of the headphone discords that agree with me on them been perhaps overly bass heavy


----------



## sahmen (May 23, 2020)

pichu said:


> Hey man!
> 
> I just wanted to give some input on the Vioelectric stuff. They are heavier in the bass and drown out vocals more than any other amp ive owned. I sold in favor of the Liquid Platinum.
> 
> ...


I have the Violectric V281, and also I have the Liquid Platinum, and I love them both very dearly for what they each bring to the table. Now, from the viewpoint of my experience, and to my mind and ears, your evaluation is so wrong on so many levels that I wouldn't know where to start listing the errors, if I wanted to, which I do not at this moment.  Ideally, I would say you should begin with a review of whatever other components you had in the chain when you auditioned the Violectric amp (was it the V280? I do not know how to interpret your expression "the Violectric stuff"), because it seems to me as if you never actually got to hear it, not even at a fraction of its level of optimal performance (by which I mean that the surrounding components must have compromised the sound to the point where you couldn't hear half of what the amp could do when properly fed and accessorized). It is a pity you sold it.  That is all I can say.

Suffice it to say that I do not recognize anything like the sound signature of either v280 or v281 in your description, and think you should not be surprised if you get a lot of bewildered responses to your statement.  With all that said, your mileage may vary, since your opinion reflects what you heard in your system, with your ears.  I always respect that as a matter of principle 

P.S :  I just noticed you were referring to the V200 and V280, but "bass heavy,"?  I wouldn't argue with "slightly warmer side of neutral," but I have never found my V281 to be any more "bass heavy" than my Liquid Platinum, with allowance made for variations in sound signatures arising from tube-rolling, of course. The V281 does bass very well, but I. wouldn't call it a bass head amp, if there is any such thing.  Again, your headphones, your ears, and other components in the chain are always determinant, so of course, YMMV


----------



## Shane D

pichu said:


> Ive had the V280 and the V200. Its not that the amp is bad, just not my thing. Ive ran them both balanced and SE. With SMSL, Schiit, Holo Audio DACs. I know theres a couple guys in some of the headphone discords that agree with me on them been perhaps overly bass heavy



That is the first time I have ever heard comments like that about Violectric. I do not dispute your opinion. I know I have been Very underwhelmed by products that are highly recommended or even "standards" in the industry (I'm lookin' at you Senn 6?? Series). Thanks for an opposing viewpoint.

I think I will dive into some research and have a look around.


----------



## rmsanger

sahmen said:


> I have the Violectric V281, and also I have the Liquid Platinum, and I love them both very dearly for what they each bring to the table. Now, from the viewpoint of my experience, and to my mind and ears, your evaluation is so wrong on so many levels that I wouldn't know where to start listing the errors, if I wanted to, which I do not at this moment.  Ideally, I would say you should begin with a review of whatever other components you had in the chain when you auditioned the Violectric amp (was it the V280? I do not know how to interpret your expression "the Violectric stuff"), because it seems to me as if you never actually got to hear it, not even at a fraction of its level of optimal performance (by which I mean that the surrounding components must have compromised the sound to the point where you couldn't hear half of what the amp could do when properly fed and accessorized). It is a pity you sold it.  That is all I can say.
> 
> Suffice it to say that I do not recognize anything like the sound signature of either v280 or v281 in your description, and think you should not be surprised if you get a lot of bewildered responses to your statement.  With all that said, your mileage may vary, since your opinion reflects what you heard in your system, with your ears.  I always respect that as a matter of principle
> 
> P.S :  I just noticed you were referring to the V200 and V280, but "bass heavy,"?  I wouldn't argue with "slightly warmer side of neutral," but I have never found my V281 to be any more "bass heavy" than my Liquid Platinum, with allowance made for variations in sound signatures arising from tube-rolling, of course. The V281 does bass very well, but I. wouldn't call it a bass head amp, if there is any such thing.  Again, your headphones, your ears, and other components in the chain are always determinant, so of course, YMMV


Given a choice between the two which would you take:

1) Lyr + Bifrost 1 + a whole bunch of tubes ('75 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields, Siemens E188CC, Mullard CV4109,Telefunken ECC88) & a V281
2) Liquid Platinum  + Bifrost 2 + (all tubes above) 

Second options give me a slightly better hybrid amp and a much better dac while the #1 give me the hybrid option plus a great SS amp with a lessor DAC.


----------



## sahmen

rmsanger said:


> Given a choice between the two which would you take:
> 
> 1) Lyr + Bifrost 1 + a whole bunch of tubes ('75 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields, Siemens E188CC, Mullard CV4109,Telefunken ECC88) & a V281
> 2) Liquid Platinum  + Bifrost 2 + (all tubes above)
> ...


Ha ha. Of all the components you have listed, I have first hand familiarity with exactly one, which is the LP (along with the Telefunken and Reflektor tubes).  I wouldn't want to state any opinion about the others without having heard them first.  All I can say for now, though, is that you have raised the question in the right place, and I hope someone with the appropriate range of experiences would be soon here to respond to your question.  I wish I had. a more helpful answer than that. Really.


----------



## Shane D

I would jump on the LP and Bifrost 2.


sahmen said:


> I have the Violectric V281, and also I have the Liquid Platinum, and I love them both very dearly for what they each bring to the table. Now, from the viewpoint of my experience, and to my mind and ears, your evaluation is so wrong on so many levels that I wouldn't know where to start listing the errors, if I wanted to, which I do not at this moment.  Ideally, I would say you should begin with a review of whatever other components you had in the chain when you auditioned the Violectric amp (was it the V280? I do not know how to interpret your expression "the Violectric stuff"), because it seems to me as if you never actually got to hear it, not even at a fraction of its level of optimal performance (by which I mean that the surrounding components must have compromised the sound to the point where you couldn't hear half of what the amp could do when properly fed and accessorized). It is a pity you sold it.  That is all I can say.
> 
> Suffice it to say that I do not recognize anything like the sound signature of either v280 or v281 in your description, and think you should not be surprised if you get a lot of bewildered responses to your statement.  With all that said, your mileage may vary, since your opinion reflects what you heard in your system, with your ears.  I always respect that as a matter of principle
> 
> P.S :  I just noticed you were referring to the V200 and V280, but "bass heavy,"?  I wouldn't argue with "slightly warmer side of neutral," but I have never found my V281 to be any more "bass heavy" than my Liquid Platinum, with allowance made for variations in sound signatures arising from tube-rolling, of course. The V281 does bass very well, but I. wouldn't call it a bass head amp, if there is any such thing.  Again, your headphones, your ears, and other components in the chain are always determinant, so of course, YMMV



So, to you, it's a worthwhile combo? A nice contrast?

I have a nice tube amp that I love and the LP is the first hybrid amp I ever loved. I am thinking that I need to upgrade the SS amp and then just get the BF2 down the road.


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## Shane D

After my non-related rambling, I really should talk about this amp. 
I ignored it for two weeks as I used my electrostatics for a week and then went with Grado/tube amp combo. After several days with the tube combo I started to crave my LP and Sundara combo.
It really is incredible. Clean, clear sounds with solid bass. My Sundara's are my hardest to drive HP's and I can't put them much past 10:00 unless I am pulling out some old music like early pop and Motown.

Left and right are clearly spaced when the song calls for it. Guitar riffs sound great, vocals are beautiful and the drums sound solid. This will be my set-up for at least a week.

My system has seen a ton of change in the year or two, but I can't imagine this amp ever leaving.


----------



## sahmen

Shane D said:


> I would jump on the LP and Bifrost 2.
> 
> 
> So, to you, it's a worthwhile combo? A nice contrast?
> ...



I greatly enjoy the options that the V281 and the LP provide for me, if that is what you're asking.  SQ-wise, they're both excellent although they bring slightly different flavors to my cans (Audeze LCD-4, i4, and X ; Hifiman HeKse, He 500, and Sennheiser HD800, among others).  The V28i is magnificent for its build, durability and versatility in connectivity as an SS HP-Amp, and Pre-amp combo.  As a hybrid amp, the LP offers even more versatility in flavors, if tube rolling is your thing.

I do not know whether you're asking about the V280, which is currently on Massdrop, but if I did not already have the V281, I'd be all over the V280. That is what my experience of the V281 as a Solid State has taught me.

By the way, DACs count too : My V281 is fed by the Yggy A2, and the LP by a Metrum Onyx.


----------



## Shane D

sahmen said:


> I greatly enjoy the options that the V281 and the LP provide for me, if that is what you're asking.  SQ-wise, they're both excellent although they bring slightly different flavors to my cans (Audeze LCD-4, i4, and X ; Hifiman HeKse, He 500, and Sennheiser HD800, among others).  The V28i is magnificent for its build, durability and versatility in connectivity as an SS HP-Amp, and Pre-amp combo.  As a hybrid amp, the LP offers even more versatility in flavors, if tube rolling is your thing.
> 
> I do not know whether you're asking about the V280, which is currently on Massdrop, but if I did not already have the V281, I'd be all over the V280. That is what my experience of the V281 as a Solid State has taught me.
> 
> By the way, DACs count too : My V281 is fed by the Yggy A2, and the LP by a Metrum Onyx.



That V280 looks good, but that would be over $2K landed in Canada. I am actually looking at a used V220. I was thinking about making this my go-to SE amp and my LP being the go-to balanced amp.

I am currently running an SMSL SU-8 DAC but do plan on getting a Bifrost 2 at some point this year.

Thanks for the feedback.


----------



## mixman

sahmen said:


> I greatly enjoy the options that the V281 and the LP provide for me, if that is what you're asking.  SQ-wise, they're both excellent although they bring slightly different flavors to my cans (Audeze LCD-4, i4, and X ; Hifiman HeKse, He 500, and Sennheiser HD800, among others).  The V28i is magnificent for its build, durability and versatility in connectivity as an SS HP-Amp, and Pre-amp combo.  As a hybrid amp, the LP offers even more versatility in flavors, if tube rolling is your thing.
> 
> I do not know whether you're asking about the V280, which is currently on Massdrop, but if I did not already have the V281, I'd be all over the V280. That is what my experience of the V281 as a Solid State has taught me.
> 
> By the way, DACs count too : My V281 is fed by the Yggy A2, and the LP by a Metrum Onyx.


Ok Sahmen, I am going to press you. LOL. Strictly in SQ terms which would you choose....the V281 or the LP and why?


----------



## Shane D

mixman said:


> Ok Sahmen, I am going to press you. LOL. Strictly in SQ terms which would you choose....the V281 or the LP and why?



Besides the HUGE price difference...


----------



## LCMusicLover

mixman said:


> Ok Sahmen, I am going to press you. LOL. Strictly in SQ terms which would you choose....the V281 or the LP and why?


<butting in>
I own LP, owned V280. Both are fine amps. Kept the LP, sold V280 (and Bryston BHA-1) and purchased a DSHA-3F. But, honestly, differences between the SS amps were pretty small. The thing about ‘...strictly in SQ terms...’ is ‘...with which tubes, paired with which cans?’

For example, paired w/ Empyrean, I would prefer any of my SS amps to LP with any tubes. Conversely, I preferred my Ether 2 from LP w/ Siemens tubes vs E2 paired w/ V280 or BHA-1. LP vs 3F ==> E2 is close to even. HD-6xx from LP over V280 or BHA-1 as well, slightly prefer 3F ==> HD-6xx over LP pairing, but it’s surprisingly close.

LP ==> Utopia beats V280 ==> Utopia. LP pairing sacrifices a little detail, but takes a bit of the ‘edge’ off and adds musicality, and, with the right tubes, can beef up the bottom end.

Auteur is a chameleon, which changes character with amp or tube swaps. Changes the most of any of my cans with tube swaps in the LP. But there’s really no favorite as it’s like seeing your girl in a new dress 

I didn’t own HEKse w/ V280 or BHA-1, but can compare amps driving HEKv2. LP w/ Siemens tubes makes HEKv2 a little warmer w/ less ‘delicate’ sound and a bit more bass slam. LP w/ Brimar CV-2492 tubes doesn’t change tonality much, but opens the headstage up, adds air to a already airy stage. V280 a bit in the middle — slightly warms up tonality, slightly opens stage. Sound changes from v2 & SE w/ tube swaps in LP are second most significant after Auteur.


----------



## sahmen (May 24, 2020)

mixman said:


> Ok Sahmen, I am going to press you. LOL. Strictly in SQ terms which would you choose....the V281 or the LP and why?



Ahh... That's not so hard to answer, although, as usual, the road to an answer can get really complicated.  When I first got the LP, it sounded great, right out of the box, but the V281 seemed to sound superior, at least for some songs, and with some of my HPs.... Sometimes, it seemed to be performing on the same level as the v281, but at other times, the v281 seem to demonstrate a certain technical superiority, in terms of the width and depth of the soundstage, as well as in other aspects such as air, detail retrieval, separation of instruments, and bass/treble extension.

But here is the first complicating factor is:  I have still not been able to ascertain how much if these differences to attribute to the DACs attached to each of these amps (The Yggy A2 feeding the V281, and the Metrum Onyx feeding the LP) and how much to attribute to the amps themselves

I agree that it would probably have taken just a bit of experimentation, swapping things around, and a couple of head to head listening shoot outs in order to nail down with more precision what exact sonic qualities to attribute to each amp and DAC in the system, and also to find out how amp/dac permutations would sound like.  I regret to say that I have not done any such permutations or experimentations, in spite of my genuine curiosity about such differences.  The reason? :  Sometimes I think it is because I am too lazy to bother with them, but it is probably also because, I am not the kind to fuss too much with equipment, or mess with experimentations when the preliminary setups or configurations sound acceptably fine to my ears, and I have always been pleased with the way these two systems sound.

Here's another complicating factor : with time, the LP + Metrum Onyx combo seem to have bridged the performance gap I initially perceived between it and the Yggy A2/V281 combo, on the level  of technical properties such as soundstage width, depth, imaging, air etc. etc.  I have wondered what has caused this bridging of the gap:  was that due to the effects of burn-in (since both the LP and the Onyx are relatively new and later acquisitions as compared to both the Yggy and the V281?), or simple psychoacoustic adjustments?  It was probaly a little bit of both, but what I can say is that the differences I perceived initially regarding those technical attributes have all but disappeared, and the LP/Onyx can sound as open and as airy as the v281/Yggy combo.  If there is any difference left, it has to reside in tonalities, but on the level, I like them both equally well.

That said, the v281 maintains its flexibility of doubling as.a pre-amp for use with speakers, and in that role, it helps to drive the two front speakers of my reference system for 2-channel stereo listening. It serves this pre amp function surprisingly well, and this is one definite advantage it has over the LP, since the LP cannot serve such pre-amp duties.  Conversely, tube-rolling brings a certain variability in flavors to the LP which the V281 cannot match, and yet this does not mean that I shall always prefer the LP's sound to that of the v281.  You also have to take synergies with particular headphones and sometimes, particular songs also into account.

Here's a confession, though:  From this viewpoint of sound-quality alone, I have often wondered, almost to the point of disbelief, how the LP can do so well when matched up against the V281, which is 3 times its price.  The work of expectation bias here is strong, and yet I have to give credit where credit is due.  I think Dr. Cavalli has put together an excellent sounding amp with an excellent price to performance ratio, that is truly difficult to match in today's market. Ironically, one could say the same, or almost, when comparing the LP to its own immediate ancestor in the Cavalli line-up, the much more expensive Liquid Crimson. It certainly goes to show that beyond a certain point, any idea of a strictly logical correspondence between price and sound quality becomes arbitrary, if not purely mythical.

Now coming back to my list of complicating factors, I think the addition of a tweaked Metrum Acoustics Ambre as a source that can feed both systems has also done a lot both to elevate the performance of both systems, and also blur further the difference in sq between them, helping to obscure the delta if not eliminate it entirely.  Before the Ambre came,  I was using a Sonore ultrarendu as a source for the Yggy/v281 combo, and the ambre made mince meat of the ultrarendu, although initially, it did not obscure the sq delta between the Yggy/v281 rig and the pre-burn in LP/Onyx combo, until some further tweaks on the Ambre down the line.  The purchase of the Ambre was contemporaneous with those of the Onyx and the LP, so they all sort of "aged" together in the burn-in process I have alluded to.  Now I have added an Etherregen switch to the ambre, so that it can serve both systems, and it has also further blurred the delta between both rigs, but I can also say that both systems have not everm sounded better than they do now....

So now that I have hopefully complicated the question to this point at which no simple answer seems possible, what would I do if I was forced to choose one?  Now with all the above caveats in place, I'd still probably choose the V281, but not for reasons of its superior sound quality, but most likely, for reasons of its superior versatility as an amp-pre amp, and, most notably, fpr its resale value, because, as sad and silly as this sounds, I think the very great price point of the LP might also be its weakest point when it comes to resale considerations...  The other consideration is build quality. The v281 looks built like a weapons grade military tank,  a quality the LP does not share. I think the Liquid Crimson might  have offered a.better competition on this front.  The net result is that, no matter how great the LP sounds, it can never fetch more than $500 on the used market now, should I decide to sell it and go for something better. The V281 can still fetch me more than a grand, in my estimation, but these are strictly market rules in application here, as opposed to sound quality rules. Of course, once again, I could be wrong there too.


----------



## Shane D

sahmen said:


> Ahh... That's not so hard to answer, although, as usual, the road to an answer can get really complicated.  When I first got the LP, it sounded great, right out of the box, but the V281 seemed to sound superior, at least for some songs, and with some of my HPs.... Sometimes, it seemed to be performing on the same level as the v281, but at other times, the v281 seem to demonstrate a certain technical superiority, in terms of the width and depth of the soundstage, as well as in other aspects such as air, detail retrieval, separation of instruments, and bass/treble extension.
> 
> But here is the first complicating factor is:  I have still not been able to ascertain how much if these differences to attribute to the DACs attached to each of these amps (The Yggy A2 feeding the V281, and the Metrum Onyx feeding the LP) and how much to attribute to the amps themselves
> 
> ...



I hope you are correct. I just bought a used V220 and I am real excited.

It really does say a LOT about the LP that a $500.00 amp can hang with a $2,200.00 amp. That is almost four and a half times the price. Amazing!👍


----------



## Marlowe (May 24, 2020)

Shane D said:


> It really does say a LOT about the LP that a $500.00 amp can hang with a $2,200.00 amp. That is almost four and a half times the price. Amazing!👍



Of course, the LP isn't really a $500 amp since it is not only closely based on a roughly $3K amp from a boutique seller with a few corners cut, but originally sold for $700-800; the latter is still listed as the MSRP. I'm sure economies of scale, since Monoprice undoubtedly sold vastly more of these than Cavalli Audio ever did or could, and savings from Chinese manufacture, figure prominently too. Why it is so cheap ATM, or whether the price cut is temporary or not, only Monoprice knows.


----------



## sahmen

Shane D said:


> I hope you are correct. I just bought a used V220 and I am real excited.
> 
> It really does say a LOT about the LP that a $500.00 amp can hang with a $2,200.00 amp. That is almost four and a half times the price. Amazing!👍



I really hope the V220 works out well for you.  I personally can't speak to its quality either way, since I am more familiar with the V281 which has a balanced circuitry. It is one of those amps which are deliberately built to perform better in balanced mode than in SE mode.  I think the LP too is built that way, although the Liquid Crimson also had an exclusively SE topology, if I remember correctly. I have no first hand familiarity with any example of Violectric's approach to building exclusively SE amps, that is why I hesitate to comment on the V220. Left to me alone, and money being no object, I would have considered the Massdrop V280 to be a more easily recommendable alternative, but I do understand how the status of the Canadian $ complicates the purchase decision for you.  Taking a purely speculative posture, I suspect the exclusively SE topology of the V220 will work for you, if you pair it with HPs that are designed to fully take advantage of SE topologies without compromising their performance. With that said, I'd really like to hear your impressions after you have auditioned the V220.


----------



## Shane D (May 24, 2020)

sahmen said:


> I really hope the V220 works out well for you.  I personally can't speak to its quality either way, since I am more familiar with the V281 which has a balanced circuitry. It is one of those amps which are deliberately built to perform better in balanced mode than in SE mode.  I think the LP too is built that way, although the Liquid Crimson also had an exclusively SE topology, if I remember correctly. I have no first hand familiarity with any example of Violectric's approach to building exclusively SE amps, that is why I hesitate to comment on the V220. Left to me alone, and money being no object, I would have considered the Massdrop V280 to be a more easily recommendable alternative, but I do understand how the status of the Canadian $ complicates the purchase decision for you.  Taking a purely speculative posture, I suspect the exclusively SE topology of the V220 will work for you, if you pair it with HPs that are designed to fully take advantage of SE topologies without compromising their performance. With that said, I'd really like to hear your impressions after you have auditioned the V220.



You are correct on the LP. Dr. Cavalli has even stated that the LP was only meant to be used balanced and the SE output was just added for convenience.

I am hoping that as the V220 was built to be an SE amp that it is their best implementation at making an SE amp. I find that most balanced amps are built and meant to be used via balanced output.

But there are MANY wonderful SE headphone amps around and I am hoping I just bought one.

And yes it really does take some extra commitment to be an audiophile in Canada with the current exchange rates.


----------



## rmsanger

sahmen said:


> Ha ha. Of all the components you have listed, I have first hand familiarity with exactly one, which is the LP (along with the Telefunken and Reflektor tubes).  I wouldn't want to state any opinion about the others without having heard them first.  All I can say for now, though, is that you have raised the question in the right place, and I hope someone with the appropriate range of experiences would be soon here to respond to your question.  I wish I had. a more helpful answer than that. Really.


well could you answer the question if it were your V281 instead?  Basically the V280 is the same without the DAC and a slightly inferior power supply but the amp sections are the same.  If you had to choose between your LP and V281 which would get the axe?


----------



## sahmen

rmsanger said:


> well could you answer the question if it were your V281 instead?  Basically the V280 is the same without the DAC and a slightly inferior power supply but the amp sections are the same.  If you had to choose between your LP and V281 which would get the axe?



Well you have probably missed it, but I think I just answered this same question in post #2811, above. You just went past it.   

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...by-alex-cavalli.876406/page-188#post-15633880

Warning : it is not a straightforward answer, and keep in mind that I have every intention of keeping both amps well into the foreseeable future, although I might spring for another Cavalli (such as the Liquid God X) at some point, or another one from the Violectric family, the Niimbus US4+, for example, depending on the availability of budget resources.


----------



## Shane D

sahmen said:


> Well you have probably missed it, but I think I just answered this same question in post #2811, above. You just went past it.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...by-alex-cavalli.876406/page-188#post-15633880
> 
> Warning : it is not a straightforward answer, and keep in mind that I have every intention of keeping both amps well into the foreseeable future, although I might spring for another Cavalli (such as the Liquid God X) at some point, or another one from the Violectric family, the Niimbus US4+, for example, depending on the availability of budget resources.



That Nimbus US4+ will definitely require a massive budget! 

Just for giggles and because I have way too much free time, I did a little list of their gear for me.

Assuming list price, current exchange rate and 15% sales tax (Nova Scotia, Canada), here is my landed price for these goodies:

Nimbus US4+ = $9,797.92
Nimbus US4 = $7,348.42
Violectric HPA V281 FE = $3,590.97
Violectric HPA V280 = $2,776.02
Violectric HPA V280 = $1,957.97 (from MassDrop) + shipping
Violectric HPA V200-A = $1,959.52
Lake People HPA RS 08 = $1,387.97.
Lake People G111 = $783.76
Lake People G103S and 103P, with and without XLR inputs. $440 and $522


----------



## sahmen

Shane D said:


> That Nimbus US4+ will definitely require a massive budget!
> 
> Just for giggles and because I have way too much free time, I did a little list of their gear for me.
> 
> ...


The level of inflation I see here is certainly spectacular, and staggering at the same time. I already find the prices of much audio gear in the USA (particularly, those typically classified as "high end") to be too hyped up already, even without the taxes and duties. Which is why I value products such as the LP, and the upcoming Liquid Gold X, and also. to a lesser extent,  some products from Schiit Audio, and Massdrop.  I am talking about all the "voodoo" methods through which boutique products that could normally be very expensive might be scaled down to more affordable alternatives without much of loss in the quality the sound. For that reason alone, I wish we had more retired but still active restless boutique industry geniuses like Dr Cavalli in the business. For Giggles, I am dreaming of Monolith Monoprice versions of the Abyss TC, the Hifiman Susvara headphones, and the Chord Dave as we speak.  I know it will probably never happen, but why the hell not?


----------



## Marlowe (May 28, 2020)

I got the LP a couple of days ago and I very happy with it thus far. It seems to provide small, but noticeable, improvements over the THX 789 I had been using (and which has moved to my Blu-ray/TV setup)--with the Focal Elex, soundstage seems a trifle wider with a bit better separation, drums and bass hit a little harder, and evrything seems to sound the tiniest bit more more natural. I'm about two days into the 100-hour break-in suggested in the manual and the slight harshness that I noticed on some vocals right out of the box seems to have largely disappeared. I can't wait to hear the ZMF Aeolus on it. (The Aeolus is probably at least a month away; I'm also planning to upgrade my DAC next month.)

I did have one question. I have several pieces of gear with external power supplies and when the power connector is inserted into the power jack it generally inserts fully until the rubber housing is flush with the jack. However, the LP's connector will not quite insert all the way--about an 1/8 of an inch of the bare metal metal connector protrudes between the jack and the black housing. It appears to work just fine though; I've had it on continuously for about two days (for break-in) without issue. Is this normal for the LP and if not could it cause a problem?


----------



## deuter

When is the Liquid Gold being released by Monoprice?


----------



## Wes S

deuter said:


> When is the Liquid Gold being released by Monoprice?


The million dollar question.     I will be buying one for sure, if and when they get released.


----------



## Marlowe

Wes S said:


> The million dollar question.     I will be buying one for sure, if and when they get released.


The date for the Liquid Gold X (and the Liquid Platinum DAC) was just pushed back once again to 7/10. My interest in the LGX is only academic ATM (I just got the LP this week) but I am planning to get a new DAC shortly was intrigued by the balanced DAC which (at $500) would be (I think) the cheapest DAC using the new AKM 4499 chip. But it's extremely unlikely that it will be available on 7/10 and I'd wager no time soon.


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## Sandifop (May 29, 2020)

My view is from a different peak.

The LP is not a Crimson or Gold, (obviously) and I would not think about what it once cost, or what its stablemates once cost, when judging it today. Yesterday is just of historical interest. Now, years after it was first put on the market, the LP is $500 "new," and has been for a pretty long time. That $500 buys an audio component that is highly capable and holds its own against other HP amps. Its tubes are plentiful and do not cost more than my car. (I don't have a car, but you know what I mean)

Not everyone likes the LP, that's cool; it could use a better power supply but...

"Well done, Dr. C."

All the best



Marlowe said:


> Of course, the LP isn't really a $500 amp since it is not only closely based on a roughly $3K amp from a boutique seller with a few corners cut, but originally sold for $700-800; the latter is still listed as the MSRP. I'm sure economies of scale, since Monoprice undoubtedly sold vastly more of these than Cavalli Audio ever did or could, and savings from Chinese manufacture, figure prominently too. Why it is so cheap ATM, or whether the price cut is temporary or not, only Monoprice knows.


----------



## deuter (May 30, 2020)

Sandifop said:


> My view is from a different peak.
> 
> The LP is not a Crimson or Gold, (obviously) and I would not think about what it once cost, or what its stablemates once cost, when judging it today. Yesterday is just of historical interest. Now, years after it was first put on the market, the LP is $500 "new," and has been for a pretty long time. That $500 buys an audio component that is highly capable and holds its own against other HP amps. Its tubes are plentiful and do not cost more than my car. (I don't have a car, but you know what I mean)
> 
> ...


The power supply upgrade has been tested to make no measurable and audible improvement to the sound.
So no requirement for a beefy power supply.

Iam just amazed at the amount of power and control the amp has and I look in disgust to the slim power cable, how on earth can do much power be drawn through such a tiny cable.
As for the sound of the amp and whether others like it or not, I would laugh at them as I have “ arguably “ on e of the best headphones currently available the Abyss AB-1266  and out of the few amps I have tried the Liquid Platinum trumps them by a mile.
It may be improved by the WA33 or the WA 234 Mono Blocks but that’s not a realistic amp choice.


----------



## Sandifop

Looking at my basement can stack pretty much sums up the worth of the LP: I took my $2500 DAC out of a chain upstairs to run the $500 LP. Because.

It is the only can amp I currently have that can show off the DAC. My other DACs are fine, one does something slightly obnoxious to HF (a little bit) but only the LP shows the papa DAC in all of its potential.  

Something is upside down here. 



deuter said:


> The power supply upgrade has been tested to make so measurable and audible improvement to the sound.
> So no requirement for a beefy power supply.
> 
> Iam just amazed at the amount of power and control the amp has and I look in disgust to the slim power cable, how on earth can do much power be drawn through such a tiny cable.
> ...


----------



## Slim1970

Got the LP in a swap deal from another head-fier yesterday. At the same time, the Elegia’s arrived as well. So I’m putting them through some burn-in.

I don’t like the sound of the stock tubes. Can anyone suggest a set of tubes that’ll get me more details, has good dynamics, clarity and bass punch? It’ll be greatly appreciated!


----------



## Sandifop (Jun 2, 2020)

I’ve been meaning to compile a list of recommended tubes for awhile but I have all this music I’m listening through. Anyway, https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ether-2-impressions-and-discussion.890282/post-14894143 has a few recommendations.

Also:
- LCMusicLover voted for the Siemens E188CC
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...platinum-by-alex-cavalli.876406/post-15628641

- sahmen was pleased with his Sylvania 6922 D Getters 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...platinum-by-alex-cavalli.876406/post-15591727

I’ll add more here as I find them.

All the best



Slim1970 said:


> Got the LP in a swap deal from another head-fier yesterday. At the same time, the Elegia’s arrived as well. So I’m putting them through some burn-in.
> 
> I don’t like the sound of the stock tubes. Can anyone suggest a set of tubes that’ll get me more details, has good dynamics, clarity and bass punch? It’ll be greatly appreciated!


----------



## adamos

Slim1970 said:


> Got the LP in a swap deal from another head-fier yesterday. At the same time, the Elegia’s arrived as well. So I’m putting them through some burn-in.
> 
> I don’t like the sound of the stock tubes. Can anyone suggest a set of tubes that’ll get me more details, has good dynamics, clarity and bass punch? It’ll be greatly appreciated!



Congrats on your trade; hope you like it. There are lots of good suggestions in this thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monoprice-liquid-platinum-tube-rollers.898852/


----------



## raphaelchan

deuter said:


> Absolutely, Schiit Audio products are well designed.
> If you hear anything better in future, remember to upgrade the DAC and not the amp.
> Also buy the most expensive headphones you can afford, that will make the most improvement in the sound and the Liquid Platinum can drive them all.
> Potentially get some Gold Lion 6922’s or some Amperex 7308 tubes and your set.


May I know whether I need to get matched pair for lp? Thanks


----------



## LCMusicLover

Sandifop said:


> .
> .
> .
> Also:
> ...


Let me poke my nose it here -- I really like all the Siemens NOS tubes I've gotten:  E88CC, E188CC, CCa.  All have the same general character and excel in the 'bass punch' area.  In addition, the CCa (the most expensive of course) are brilliant in all areas. I do also really enjoy the sound of my NOS Brimar CV-2492.  Not quite as warm/bassy, but not deficient in that area.  They bring great air to the headstage, while also being the most detailed of any tubes I have tried. I've also tried some recommended Amperex tubes, but really the Siemens and Brimar are the only tubes which get any time.

Note that I also had a negative reaction to the stock tube sound. The first set of replacement tubes I purchased were Genelex Gold Lions.  They're pretty good, and not too expensive.  Frankly, they're probably 90% of my NOS tubes.  In addition, they're sort of in the middle between the Brimar and Siemens tubes. At the time I got the LP, I was still fighting with my Utopia to get it where I loved it (had been "...and I should love them, they're so technically brilliant. but there's just something.") After the disappointment on first listen via the stock tubes, the Genelex were like "Yeah baby, that's what I'm talking about!" I would say that tube swaps make a relatively small difference in the sound  For example, going from Siemens CCa to Brimar CV-2492 has about the same amount of impact on the sound as going from my Denafrips Pontus R-2-R DAC to my Gumby did.

Looking at your profile, I see we only have/had a couple sets of cans in common (HEKse, Beyer T1.2, HE-6se). In addition, I'd guess your Elegia probably wants the same tubes as my Utopia.  For all of those (except HE-6se) I'd probably prefer the Siemens sound to the Brimar sound, although I do like what the Brimar do for Utopia's stage.

I didn't think the HE-6se were adequately powered by the LP, so I didn't listen to that pairing much. Actually, I wonder what amp you're using for that?

Anyway, hope that helps.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 2, 2020)

Slim1970 said:


> Got the LP in a swap deal from another head-fier yesterday. At the same time, the Elegia’s arrived as well. So I’m putting them through some burn-in.
> 
> I don’t like the sound of the stock tubes. Can anyone suggest a set of tubes that’ll get me more details, has good dynamics, clarity and bass punch? It’ll be greatly appreciated!


The Sylvania 6922 D Getters fit the bill, as well as Brimar CV2492.  The stock tubes did nothing for me, as well.


----------



## LCMusicLover

I should add that tube swapping is a real PITA, and takes enough time that comparisons are tough, as in 'what did that sound like?' The whole 'turn the amp off, grab the hot tubes and pull, insert the new tubes, turn the amp on and wait' cycle runs about a minute and a half.  Way too long for auditory memory to be reliable.

The only reason I'm willing to express definitive opinions is that for a while I had 2 LPs (long story) and could compare tubes by simply moving the headphone cable from one LP to the other.  Since my preamp has 2 balanced outputs, I could drive both amps at the same volume from the same source, allowing easy direct comparisons.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Get 12au7 to 6922 adapters folks. Tubes are cheaper and superior to 6922/e88cc/CCa.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Guidostrunk said:


> Get 12au7 to 6922 adapters folks. Tubes are cheaper and superior to 6922/e88cc/CCa.


Plus, they lift the tubes out of the amp, allowing a bit more cooling, so the amp doesn't get quite as hot


----------



## Shane D

This amp, combined with the Elex's and the Sundara's has provided me endless joy. Other toys have been getting much less play recently.

But I did get a new-to-me amp today (Violectric V220) which will take Primetime for the next week or two as I assess where it fits in.


----------



## Sandifop (Jun 2, 2020)

Nice score; is it the ”Drop” or a previously owned V220?

The LP was good enough to reveal a hole with my $2k cans. (No names, please) So, there was _that_. I’m afraid to spend more and learn what else I’m missing. 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...platinum-by-alex-cavalli.876406/post-15652206


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Get 12au7 to 6922 adapters folks. Tubes are cheaper and superior to 6922/e88cc/CCa.


Bro, preaching to the choir on this! Did you get those CBS 7730 yet?


----------



## deuter

raphaelchan said:


> May I know whether I need to get matched pair for lp? Thanks


I don’t have a matched pair, my advise is if you find one get it but don’t be fussed on it.


----------



## Slim1970

Wes S said:


> The Sylvania 6922 D Getters fit the bill, as well as Brimar CV2492.  The stock tubes did nothing for me, as well.


Thanks, I will check those out at some point. I'm doing some listening now with my Audio-Technica ATH-AWKT's. The stock tubes work better with this headphone, but still not ideal for me.


----------



## Slim1970

adamos said:


> Congrats on your trade; hope you like it. There are lots of good suggestions in this thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monoprice-liquid-platinum-tube-rollers.898852/


Thanks for the link!


----------



## deuter

Slim1970 said:


> Thanks, I will check those out at some point. I'm doing some listening now with my Audio-Technica ATH-AWKT's. The stock tubes work better with this headphone, but still not ideal for me.


You could try a different source, also the stock tubes would need some burn-in.
I realised they changed sound signature after 48 hours of continuous burn-in.


----------



## Slim1970

deuter said:


> You could try a different source, also the stock tubes would need some burn-in.
> I realised they changed sound signature after 48 hours of continuous burn-in.


Right now I have the Hugo 2 connected to my LP. I'm running some music through it now to get some hours on it. The stock tubes just aren't detailed sounding and they bloat the bass to my ears. But thanks to @Guidostrunk, I have some new tubes headed my way to try out.


----------



## TK16

Slim1970 said:


> Thanks for the link!


Not a fan of the original poster on the LP tube rolling thread. 
Many of the tubes in the Schiit tube rolling thread can be used in the LP. 6DJ8 variants and adapter tubes as well if you go that route. Huge pile of posts related tube rolling. Very long long thread, huge mountain of tube rolling experiences though.Immensely helpful.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-1550


----------



## Shane D

Sandifop said:


> Nice score; is it the ”Drop” or a previously owned V220?
> 
> The LP was good enough to reveal a hole with my $2k cans. (No names, please) So, there was _that_. I’m afraid to spend more and learn what else I’m missing.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...platinum-by-alex-cavalli.876406/post-15652206


Previously owned V220. AMAZING!


----------



## Sandifop

I WANT!



Shane D said:


> Previously owned V220. AMAZING!


----------



## Slim1970

Thanks to @Guidostrunk I was able to jump right to the top of probably one of the best set of tubes for the LP. Enter the 1958 CBS Hytron 5814wa's with adapters. I don't have the words to say on how these tubes totally transform the LP. To test difference in sound between stock and the 5814wa's, I decided to pair my Hifiman HEKse's with the LP. I'm also using the Hugo 2 as the DAC with a Shiit Loki in between them. Gone is the sloppy bass, congested midrange, and cloudy sound of the stock. What I'm hearing now is bass that is defined, deep, taunt, with so much slam and impact. The midrange is clean, lively and vocals sound a lot more natural with some sweetness to them. The treble has amazingly clarity and detail for days. I'm completely impressed with these tube.

These tube totally takes advantage of the hybrid design of the LP by increasing the speed of delivery, improving soundstage, imaging and instrument separation. They do this while keeping the sound musical, natural and realistic. The P.R.A.T. with these tubes is incredible with everything I threw at it. Albeit hip-hop, R&B, rock, pop, and metal the energy with these tubes is insane. I can't suggest enough to include a Loki in your setup. Have the ability to really dial in the sound and get that last percentage of greatness delivery to your headphones is worth this amazing tweak. But the tubes are the highlight of the show. Big ups to @Guidostrunk for the deal and recommendation of these tubes!


----------



## deuter

Slim1970 said:


> Thanks to @Guidostrunk I was able to jump right to the top of probably one of the best set of tubes for the LP. Enter the 1958 CBS Hytron 5814wa's with adapters. I don't have the words to say on how these tubes totally transform the LP. To test difference in sound between stock and the 5814wa's, I decided to pair my Hifiman HEKse's with the LP. I'm also using the Hugo 2 as the DAC with a Shiit Loki in between them. Gone is the sloppy bass, congested midrange, and cloudy sound of the stock. What I'm hearing now is bass that is defined, deep, taunt, with so much slam and impact. The midrange is clean, lively and vocals sound a lot more natural with some sweetness to them. The treble has amazingly clarity and detail for days. I'm completely impressed with these tube.
> 
> These tube totally takes advantage of the hybrid design of the LP by increasing the speed of delivery, improving soundstage, imaging and instrument separation. They do this while keeping the sound musical, natural and realistic. The P.R.A.T. with these tubes is incredible with everything I threw at it. Albeit hip-hop, R&B, rock, pop, and metal the energy with these tubes is insane. I can't suggest enough to include a Loki in your setup. Have the ability to really dial in the sound and get that last percentage of greatness delivery to your headphones is worth this amazing tweak. But the tubes are the highlight of the show. Big ups to @Guidostrunk for the deal and recommendation of these tubes!


Have you got a link to these tubes?


----------



## Slim1970

deuter said:


> Have you got a link to these tubes?


These are the tubes but they seem to be out of stock.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/392619731769


----------



## Guidostrunk

Slim1970 said:


> Thanks to @Guidostrunk I was able to jump right to the top of probably one of the best set of tubes for the LP. Enter the 1958 CBS Hytron 5814wa's with adapters. I don't have the words to say on how these tubes totally transform the LP. To test difference in sound between stock and the 5814wa's, I decided to pair my Hifiman HEKse's with the LP. I'm also using the Hugo 2 as the DAC with a Shiit Loki in between them. Gone is the sloppy bass, congested midrange, and cloudy sound of the stock. What I'm hearing now is bass that is defined, deep, taunt, with so much slam and impact. The midrange is clean, lively and vocals sound a lot more natural with some sweetness to them. The treble has amazingly clarity and detail for days. I'm completely impressed with these tube.
> 
> These tube totally takes advantage of the hybrid design of the LP by increasing the speed of delivery, improving soundstage, imaging and instrument separation. They do this while keeping the sound musical, natural and realistic. The P.R.A.T. with these tubes is incredible with everything I threw at it. Albeit hip-hop, R&B, rock, pop, and metal the energy with these tubes is insane. I can't suggest enough to include a Loki in your setup. Have the ability to really dial in the sound and get that last percentage of greatness delivery to your headphones is worth this amazing tweak. But the tubes are the highlight of the show. Big ups to @Guidostrunk for the deal and recommendation of these tubes!


----------



## Shane D (Jun 6, 2020)

Deleted. Posted in wrong thread.


----------



## deathgripped

Alright I was able to get one of these used on an insane deal, but I do not have a balanced preamp. My question is will I need one, or will my Atom suffice? I am sooo excited to get into the tube game and getting this amp is a huge step up for me.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I believe all you need is a balanced cable for your cans.


----------



## deathgripped

Guidostrunk said:


> I believe all you need is a balanced cable for your cans.


Alright I have one already. But I've heard that the lack of gain can make it difficult to fine tune volume on this beast.


----------



## sahmen (Jun 7, 2020)

It all depends on your unit, and the sensitivity and impedance rating of the headphones you use on them. My LCD-X has an impedance rating of 20 ohms, and a sensitivity rating of 103 db. It performs flawlessly on the LP without generating any noise, between the 8:30 - 9:00 marks, and I do not consider myself to be an excessively loud listener...

I understand that there are some probably irregular LP units that may be less friendly to extremely efficient cans, but it is probably best to actually test your own cans on the LP you're getting before taking any action or spending any extra mullah prematurely on some. component you may not really need.

Personally. I use no pre-amp with my LP. I only use a balanced DAC which has no volume dial,  and I have never heard the slightest whiff of noise from the LP in more than 18 months of almost constant use. To be fair, I probably have to mention that I am typically not one to fret obsessively with a volume dial, trying to fine-tune levels of loudness.  I tend to find my comfort zones in the loudness department very quickly in any listening session, and to leave things alone.  But YMMV of course.


----------



## deathgripped

sahmen said:


> It all depends on your unit, and the sensitivity and impedance rating of the headphones you use on them. My LCD-X has an impedance rating of 20 ohms, and a sensitivity rating of 103 db. It performs flawlessly on the LP without generating any noise, between the 8:30 - 9:00 marks, and I do not consider myself to be an excessively loud listener...
> 
> I understand that there are some probably irregular LP units that may be less friendly to extremely efficient cans, but it is probably best to actually test your own cans on the LP you're getting before taking any action or spending any extra mullah, because you may not really need any extra components.
> 
> Personally. I only have a balanced DAC without a volume Dial attached to my LP,  and I have never heard the slightest whiff of noise from it in more than 18 months of almost constant use.


Alright awesome, that was pretty much the last thing I was concerned about after sealing the deal on the Liquid Plat. I'll be getting the new Modius soon as well. Thanks for the feedback.


----------



## Shane D

deathgripped said:


> Alright I have one already. But I've heard that the lack of gain can make it difficult to fine tune volume on this beast.



I find it barely usable with my very efficient 'phones (Grado GH2's and Meze 99 Classic's). I can't even get the volume to 9:00. And that is after reducing the volume on my DAC noticeably (SMSL SU-8). 

Not really a problem as I have other amps, but I was a little surprised. Made me wonder what would happen if I pick up a Bifrost 2.

I should mention that I am a pretty quiet listener and rarely go over 75 Db's.


----------



## TK16

Slim1970 said:


> Thanks to @Guidostrunk I was able to jump right to the top of probably one of the best set of tubes for the LP. Enter the 1958 CBS Hytron 5814wa's with adapters. I don't have the words to say on how these tubes totally transform the LP. To test difference in sound between stock and the 5814wa's, I decided to pair my Hifiman HEKse's with the LP. I'm also using the Hugo 2 as the DAC with a Shiit Loki in between them. Gone is the sloppy bass, congested midrange, and cloudy sound of the stock. What I'm hearing now is bass that is defined, deep, taunt, with so much slam and impact. The midrange is clean, lively and vocals sound a lot more natural with some sweetness to them. The treble has amazingly clarity and detail for days. I'm completely impressed with these tube.
> 
> These tube totally takes advantage of the hybrid design of the LP by increasing the speed of delivery, improving soundstage, imaging and instrument separation. They do this while keeping the sound musical, natural and realistic. The P.R.A.T. with these tubes is incredible with everything I threw at it. Albeit hip-hop, R&B, rock, pop, and metal the energy with these tubes is insane. I can't suggest enough to include a Loki in your setup. Have the ability to really dial in the sound and get that last percentage of greatness delivery to your headphones is worth this amazing tweak. But the tubes are the highlight of the show. Big ups to @Guidostrunk for the deal and recommendation of these tubes!


I have a personal top 21 tube list in my profile. All can be used in the LP EXCEPT # 2,4,9,10 mostly tilted to the warmth side. Tested many ECC88 all variants 60's to early 70's. Sold off all of those and have many really excellent holy grails left. The cream of the crop 50's ECC88 variants vs the cream of the crop ECC82's 50's are noticeably better than those. All IMO of course.


----------



## Slim1970

TK16 said:


> I have a personal top 21 tube list in my profile. All can be used in the LP EXCEPT # 2,4,9,10 mostly tilted to the warmth side. Tested many ECC88 all variants 60's to early 70's. Sold off all of those and have many really excellent holy grails left. The cream of the crop 50's ECC88 variants vs the cream of the crop ECC82's 50's are noticeably better than those. All IMO of course.


I'll have to revisit your post. I'm currently looking for a brighter tube that doesn't have a huge midbass emphasis with more treble and air. All while keeping the bass tight and punchy for the LP. I know that's a lot, but I think a tube like this would be more universal for my current list of headphones.


----------



## TK16

Slim1970 said:


> I'll have to revisit your post. I'm currently looking for a brighter tube that doesn't have a huge midbass emphasis with more treble and air. All while keeping the bass tight and punchy for the LP. I know that's a lot, but I think a tube like this would be more universal for my current list of headphones.


Think a 50's ECC82/12AU7 Brimar square getter would be great for what your asking. The HIVAC 40'S ECC82 square getter is better more refined Brimar but these are ultra, ultra rare. You have a better chance finding the Brimar ECC82.


----------



## Slim1970

TK16 said:


> Think a 50's ECC82/12AU7 Brimar square getter would be great for what your asking. The HIVAC 40'S ECC82 square getter is better more refined Brimar but these are ultra, ultra rare. You have a better chance finding the Brimar ECC82.


Thanks, I will begin my search for a pair. I really appreciate the work you and @Guidostrunk are providing to the head-fi community!


----------



## TK16

Slim1970 said:


> Thanks, I will begin my search for a pair. I really appreciate the work you and @Guidostrunk are providing to the head-fi community!


Make sure the Gm is over 2,000. I had to send back at least 5 various make ECC82. They were crap testing and prone to noise in the LP. Best bet to buy from the UK for Brimar. The ones you want have long plates and an angled square getter. My pairs are coded for example 5E2 believe 5 is the year E is May and  2 second week. Mine are coded 5E2/1571 small white lettering. 
Here is an example.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brimar-12A...720adaa5a9dd491ffe966c8|iid:1&redirect=mobile


----------



## Slim1970

TK16 said:


> Make sure the Gm is over 2,000. I had to send back at least 5 various make ECC82. They were crap testing and prone to noise in the LP. Best bet to buy from the UK for Brimar. The ones you want have long plates and an angled square getter. My pairs are coded for example 5E2 believe 5 is the year E is May and  2 second week. Mine are coded 5E2/1571 small white lettering.
> Here is an example.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brimar-12AU7-Long-Plate-2J1-Valve-Tube-eqv-ECC82-B329-CV491-CV4003-for-EL34-KT88/293565363694?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=225086&meid=33b8d8d3f63c4ab49e5de38f3c9e322e&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&mehot=none&sd=293565363694&itm=293565363694&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2380057&brand=Brimar&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:c8dcda14-a8e7-11ea-a62e-74dbd180759e|parentrq:8fea6d711720adaa5a9dd491ffe966c8|iid:1&redirect=mobile


Thanks, there is just so many flavor of tubes that it’s hard to keep straight. Now I need to find a pair of these.


----------



## hemtmaker

sahmen said:


> It all depends on your unit, and the sensitivity and impedance rating of the headphones you use on them. My LCD-X has an impedance rating of 20 ohms, and a sensitivity rating of 103 db. It performs flawlessly on the LP without generating any noise, between the 8:30 - 9:00 marks, and I do not consider myself to be an excessively loud listener...
> 
> I understand that there are some probably irregular LP units that may be less friendly to extremely efficient cans, but it is probably best to actually test your own cans on the LP you're getting before taking any action or spending any extra mullah prematurely on some. component you may not really need.
> 
> Personally. I use no pre-amp with my LP. I only use a balanced DAC which has no volume dial,  and I have never heard the slightest whiff of noise from the LP in more than 18 months of almost constant use. To be fair, I probably have to mention that I am typically not one to fret obsessively with a volume dial, trying to fine-tune levels of loudness.  I tend to find my comfort zones in the loudness department very quickly in any listening session, and to leave things alone.  But YMMV of course.


Correct me if I am wrong, but it will also depend on your DAC’s output voltage as well


----------



## Wes S (Jun 8, 2020)

Slim1970 said:


> I'll have to revisit your post. I'm currently looking for a brighter tube that doesn't have a huge midbass emphasis with more treble and air. All while keeping the bass tight and punchy for the LP. I know that's a lot, but I think a tube like this would be more universal for my current list of headphones.


@Slim1970 , The Brimar CV2492 fits the bill, exactly.


----------



## ra990 (Jun 16, 2020)

Should I be concerned if one of my tubes glows about 50% dimmer than the other? I swapped the tubes and the same tube stayed dim. Not noticing any difference in sound between the two channels, so I assume it's fine other than my OCD driving me crazy.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 16, 2020)

ra990 said:


> Should I be concerned if one of my tubes glows about 50% dimmer than the other? I swapped the tubes and the same tube stayed dim. Not noticing any difference in sound between the two channels, so I assume it's fine other than my OCD driving me crazy.


That is normal, as long as the tubes are matched within 10%, I would not worry about it.  Sometimes the metal at the top of the triodes is blocking some of the glow, depending on the angle you are viewing the tube.


----------



## TK16

ra990 said:


> Should I be concerned if one of my tubes glows about 50% dimmer than the other? I swapped the tubes and the same tube stayed dim. Not noticing any difference in sound between the two channels, so I assume it's fine other than my OCD driving me crazy.


I have/had several pairs that exhibit this behavior. the biggest difference in glow I currently see is a pair of Western Electric 396A pair I have, the 1946/1947 pair shows the biggest difference in glow, both tested well above NOS and very balanced Gm wise. 0 audible difference between the tubes. If your tubes are not exhibiting any audible difference gain wise (1 tube sounding louder than the other) plus no noise and microphonics, I would not worry about the pair at all.


----------



## ra990

A lot of people have mentioned the HD650 as a good match with this amp, but I just plugged in the HD58X Jubilee from drop and they sound even better. They sound brighter and more alive than the HD650, in a very good way. Bass seems tighter as well.


----------



## Guidostrunk

You're hearing the 58x exactly like I did. Definitely preferred it to the rest of the 6 series.


----------



## Sandifop

I agree with the HD58X and LP pairing. It is a good marriage. Not including the bottom end, I felt that it did better on the LP than the Ether 2.  I also liked the X better than the HD580 Precision: The X is an improvement on the original and more “neutral” than the 650. (In my opinion)



ra990 said:


> A lot of people have mentioned the HD650 as a good match with this amp, but I just plugged in the HD58X Jubilee from drop and they sound even better. They sound brighter and more alive than the HD650, in a very good way. Bass seems tighter as well.


----------



## Inoculator

While on the Sennheiser HD 6X0 series discussion, I will add that I enjoy the HD 600 a lot more from the LP than the HD 650/6XX. HD 650 certainly doesn't sound bad from the LP, but a bit too laid back.


----------



## Flappy

I've been a Liquid Platinum owner for a few months now and they drive my Focal Elegia's and ZMF Verite Opens.  I also swapped out the stock tubes for some E88CC's.  I'm running the music signals through an RME ADI-2 DAC fs.  I've really been enjoying the sound that this grouping puts forward.  My only gripe would be the need for a gain switch (which I've seen from others as well) since this thing is so powerful I barely move the volume knob to get to a loud volume.  I can modify that somewhat with lowering the signal strength from the DAC.  Other than that I absolutely love it and it looks great on the table too.


----------



## Wes S

Flappy said:


> I've been a Liquid Platinum owner for a few months now and they drive my Focal Elegia's and ZMF Verite Opens.  I also swapped out the stock tubes for some E88CC's.  I'm running the music signals through an RME ADI-2 DAC fs.  I've really been enjoying the sound that this grouping puts forward.  My only gripe would be the need for a gain switch (which I've seen from others as well) since this thing is so powerful I barely move the volume knob to get to a loud volume.  I can modify that somewhat with lowering the signal strength from the DAC.  Other than that I absolutely love it and it looks great on the table too.


Nice!  It truly is a killer amp, and all my ZMF's sound amazing on it.  Just curious which E88CC's are running?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hola Folks,

Well, I've had my LP for about 2 months now and absolutely LOVE this amp! 
2 weeks ago I didn't love this amp. I thought it was pretty good, but it lacked detail, distorted once you got close or past the 10:30 mark. Imaging was decent but smeared and collapsed with busy music. Soundstage was decent and kinda hinted at a 3D presence. Bass was somewhat muddy with minimal impact. This is all with totl tubes in it. 

To rewind a little. I purchased a Gilmore Lite mk2 off the used market about a month ago, and sent it to a fellow headfier on here to have it modded with Elna Silmic ii capacitors. Everyone on that thread was raving about the mod. 
Wanted to see if possibly going to solid state would deliver what I was looking for SQ wise. Well it did..... almost. I've always been a tube guy once I got into cans. Tubes just do something that SS can't do. SS fanatics will say " yeah it adds distortion to your music". For me I love that "distortion". The space , the imaging, the added harmonics, the whole sha-bang. Tubes just do it for me Lol.


During the modding process of my GLmk2. A light bulb went on in my head " What if the LP can be modded with the same totl caps?" So.. I asked the headfier that did the GLmk2 if he'd be interested in modding my LP, or if it can even be done. He agreed and off it went to get the cap UPGRADE! 

So 6 of the 7 caps in the LP were swapped out for some jumbo Elna Silmic ii caps. The 7th cap didn't need replaced. Got the LP back 12 days ago and wanted to get over the 100 hour mark on the caps before I wrote this review. 

First and foremost this is my personal subjective experience with the mod. 
Secondly, I can't thank @ksorota enough for modding the LP for me along with my GLmk2. 

WOW! Where do I start?..... 
From the first song I played to wrapping up my 4 hour session last night. It has been one hell of a jaw dropping rollercoaster ride! To me this amp is at a completely different level of what it once was. 

The level of detail and articulation that's produced now is mind boggling. The impact and slam cut right through you. 
There's so much more dimensional space and transparency. One of the most airy holographic 3D experiences I've ever heard. Nuances and reverb trails are so easy to hear and distinguish in the imaging now. The imaging has more texture and speed with a bigger 3D presence in the placement around the stage with phenomenal macro and micro dynamics. Much more feel and lifelike glow that breathes, and never gets congested now. Bass weight, extension and slam have increased tremendously with no bloat or mud. Very articulate and accurate presence that I can feel pulsating through my body. 
Treble and the midrange have a stunning sense of realism now and blend with precision. You can hear and feel the breath in the vocal now. Before the mod the treble lacked extension and attack which pushed the midrange forward causing a stage collapse. Things just got muddled up especially when I pumped up the volume. 
Now the treble attacks with way better extension and clarity never crossing the line of being sibilant or a dry distortion. 
The midrange has a more liquid flow with a better transient response. So much more lifelike and haunting sense realism in the music. 

Folks, this is not the same amp anymore. Not even close. For me the change is drastic! I was considering parting ways with it prior to the mod. I was bored with it. It had no life to the sound. Lacked PRAT. I just had a hard time grooving with it. 

It will be a permanent fixture now! I believe that the LP in this form can easily compete with far more expensive amps. 
I took a chance and it paid off immensely! Hopefully others will give it a shot before they decide to sell. You will most likely reconsider lol.

There's one other person that had this mod done. I'm sure he'll chime in at some point with his thoughts on it, and possibly the modder himself. 

With all that said. This is a very subjective hobby. These are my impressions and opinions. 


Gear used with the LP.

Cans: Focal Clear Pro 
Dac: Denafrips Ares

Cheers!


----------



## Slim1970

Guidostrunk said:


> Hola Folks,
> 
> Well, I've had my LP for about 2 months now and absolutely LOVE this amp!
> 2 weeks ago I didn't love this amp. I thought it was pretty good, but it lacked detail, distorted once you got close or past the 10:30 mark. Imaging was decent but smeared and collapsed with busy music. Soundstage was decent and kinda hinted at a 3D presence. Bass was somewhat muddy with minimal impact. This is all with totl tubes in it.
> ...


I guess I can piggy back on this post because I had the same mod done by @ksorota and I'm amazed by the sound transformation of the LP. I ready to sell the LP as soon as I heard it. It sounded congested and boomy. There was nothing musical about it. After the mod, the LP now has a cleaner, clearer presentation and the dynamic swings are infinitely better. The soundstage is more 3D and expansive and the tubes have more effect on the sound signature. The LP now sounds a true hybrid and not just a solid state device. 

Like I said previously, the choice of tubes has more influence of the sound of the LP now. With the 5814wa tubes I'm using now, the bass is deeper, more taunt with amazing slam. The midrange is full sounding, lush, with more body. Vocals are sweeter. The treble has more clarity and air. The whole presentation after the upgrade seems to allow the LP to breathe and unleash more of its musical prowess.  

I've compared the LP with upgraded tubes to some of the most respected gear in the industry. My Chord TT2, Burson Conductor 3XR, and RME ADI-2 DAC FS, all seem to be missing something now. They are still good, but for music listening I cannot get enough to my modded LP. It's so darn musical, while my other gear sounds more solid state than ever. The LP is as competitive as ever after the mod and I'd put it up against any amp. It's that good....

I have my LP paired with my Hugo 2 and the pairing is fantastic. The two together seems to made for each other as they play off each other strengths. The LP is a must listen in this form as the mod comes highly recommended!!


----------



## mat.1

Can someone give the picture of the mod LP inside ?


----------



## wormsdriver

How much is the mod? I'm asking for a friend


----------



## ksorota

Thanks to @Guidostrunk and @Slim1970 for providing their amps for the "investigatory" process of upgrading the Caps and then for providing feedback and positive words.  I admit I was a bit skeptical that it would make a big difference and I am glad that their experience has echoed mine with the LP.  Prior to trying this upgrade, as Guidostrunk stated, I had upgraded a few GLMK2s with very positive results.  The LP was a bit different and required a bit more time to complete, but the change from the stock state to the "modified" state was shocking.  

My first experience with the LP was with Guidostrunks with upgrade 7730 tubes...and it sounded nice but also distorted like crazy at moderately low volume levels.  With the stock tubes provided with Slim1970's LP I was not overly impressed, especially not with the Ether C Flow's.   

After replacing the caps the distortion went away at moderate/moderate volumes and the amp really took on a new sonorous and enveloping nature...overall just really engaging.  Needless to say I was surprised by the change. 

It is interactions/transactions like this (with Tim and Sam) that really make me enjoy coming to this forum.  

Now to get myself an LP...making my GSX mini jealous for sure!



mat.1 said:


> Can someone give the picture of the mod LP inside ?






Before




After



wormsdriver said:


> How much is the mod? I'm asking for a friend



PM incoming


----------



## Guidostrunk

This is what I love about this place. I've met some of the best people here. Think about everyday life. Would you walk up to a stranger and hand them your wallet and ask them to give it back untouched in 24 hours? Probably not. 
I had no reservations sending my equipment to @ksorota whatsoever. 

I've been on this forum almost 11 years and have never had a bad experience dealing with folks in this community. This is the most wholesome getaway from all the schiit on TV today and I pray that it never gets tainted. I will not stick around if so. 

We're such a remote enthusiastic family and it should always stay that way! 

Enough of my cocktail rant and back to this phenomenal amp that has been given life! Lol. 

Honestly and truly Keith. THANK YOU FOR EVERYTHING!


----------



## Zulkr9

Anybody tried a linear psu with the liquid platinum, I keep reading on some places that states its sort of dangerous to use with the LP can someone confirm


----------



## Slim1970

Zulkr9 said:


> Anybody tried a linear psu with the liquid platinum, I keep reading on some places that states its sort of dangerous to use with the LP can someone confirm


Not sure a linear PSU is needEd with this amp. Changing tubes nets you bigger sonic gains. Having the cap mod done totally transforms the LP.


----------



## Wes S

Slim1970 said:


> Not sure a linear PSU is needEd with this amp. Changing tubes nets you bigger sonic gains. Having the cap mod done totally transforms the LP.


Cap mod?  Any more info on this?


----------



## adamos

Wes S said:


> Cap mod?  Any more info on this?



They were talking about it here yesterday; you can find the info on the previous page. Sounds  intriguing.


----------



## Wes S

adamos said:


> They were talking about it here yesterday; you can find the info on the previous page. Sounds  intriguing.


Thanks!


----------



## Wes S

Dang!  I just read about that cap mod, and it sounds like a killer upgrade.  I would love to have this mod done to my LP.  @ksorota , I sent you a pm.  Thanks!


----------



## Slim1970

Wes S said:


> Dang!  I just read about that cap mod, and it sounds like a killer upgrade.  I would love to have this mod done to my LP.  @ksorota , I sent you a pm.  Thanks!


@Wes S the sound is unbelievable. The LP is a totally different sounding and performing amp now. I'm still trying to wrap my head around how a small upgrade can bring about such improved sound without a redesign. But as I'm sitting here listening to the LP with my Susvara's, there is no denying the sonic benefits that upgrading the caps has brought to the table.


----------



## Marlowe

It's been asked but not answered: what's the total cost of the cap mod? (Frankly, just curiosity. The chances I would do this to my LP are pretty much zero regardless of cost.)


----------



## TK16

Does this mod void your 5 year warranty? Mod does sound incredible though the people that got the mod done.


----------



## TK16

Marlowe said:


> It's been asked but not answered: what's the total cost of the cap mod? (Frankly, just curiosity. The chances I would do this to my LP are pretty much zero regardless of cost.)


Someone who got the mod done told me it was $150 total, parts labor and return shipping included.


----------



## Marlowe

TK16 said:


> Someone who got the mod done told me it was $150 total, parts labor and return shipping included.


Thanks!


----------



## Wes S

Slim1970 said:


> @Wes S the sound is unbelievable. The LP is a totally different sounding and performing amp now. I'm still trying to wrap my head around how a small upgrade can bring about such improved sound without a redesign. But as I'm sitting here listening to the LP with my Susvara's, there is no denying the sonic benefits that upgrading the caps has brought to the table.


That's awesome!  I am getting it done, and have already got in touch with the man.  I can't wait to hear it, after the cap swap.


----------



## nwavesailor (Jun 28, 2020)

Having worked for years for a well know mod company, YES it will void your Monoprice 5 year warranty. Heck at the cost of a new LP if it dies, spend the $150 and get a better amp TODAY. Life is full of risks but the LP has been pretty reliable and why not get a better performing amp?

$150 shipped seems reasonable to me.


----------



## Zachik

Wes S said:


> That's awesome!  I am getting it done, and have already got in touch with the man.  I can't wait to hear it, after the cap swap.


Cool - will be waiting for your opinions once done!


----------



## ksorota

Just wanted to confirm a few things regarding the capacitor swap. 

First of all, thank you to all who have reached out already...I have never had so many pm's in my inbox and I really appreciate all the interest. 

The mod for sure would void the warranty but in my opinion is a pretty low risk modification.  I am replacing 6 total capacitors on the board and the board is pretty well spaced out almost appears to have been designed to use larger caps. 

I am asking for $150 to do the upgrade.  This includes the cost of materials, the swap and return shipping via USPS (insured). The swap can be done in an evening, but with my career work picking up I am going to say that 2 days should be expected.  If I have a lot of interest then it may slow down the turn around time, but that can be discussed on a one on one basis. 

I make sure to test each of the capacitors prior to the installation to make sure that they meet the specifications and match each other within a few points.  

I am using Elna Silmic II caps, but if someone wanted another brand (nichigon, rubycon, etc.) I could change those out as well. 

Lastly, solder work is something that I have become proficient at through my career work and the audio upgrades/repairs that I have been doing lately are fun to me and good extension of the hobby.  That being said, I apologize for any delay in response to questions or updates to gear, but will do my best!

All the best, 
Keith


----------



## Wes S

Zachik said:


> Cool - will be waiting for your opinions once done!


I will post my impressions, for sure.  I am pumped to hear the differences!


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> Hola Folks,
> 
> Well, I've had my LP for about 2 months now and absolutely LOVE this amp!
> 2 weeks ago I didn't love this amp. I thought it was pretty good, but it lacked detail, distorted once you got close or past the 10:30 mark. Imaging was decent but smeared and collapsed with busy music. Soundstage was decent and kinda hinted at a 3D presence. Bass was somewhat muddy with minimal impact. This is all with totl tubes in it.
> ...


My LP is all packed up, and shipping label is good to go, and payment has been made!   I will be reading your post constantly, and anxiously waiting to hear the magic. . .This is such a great forum with great members, and @ksorota is definitely one of them.


----------



## Guidostrunk

It's so baffling bro. I shake my head in disbelief after every song. Been losing lots of sleep as well" one more song , one more song" lol.


Wes S said:


> My LP is all packed up, and shipping label is good to go, and payment has been made!   I will be reading your post constantly, and anxiously waiting to hear the magic. . .This is such a great forum with great members, and @ksorota is definitely one of them.


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> It's so baffling bro. I shake my head in disbelief after every song. Been losing lots of sleep as well" one more song , one more song" lol.


Oh man!  I cant freaking wait!


----------



## sahmen

Guidostrunk said:


> It's so baffling bro. I shake my head in disbelief after every song. Been losing lots of sleep as well" one more song , one more song" lol.


Encouraging to hear...  But if you're not getting any sleep, then one reason might be that the extra detail retrieval and dynamism that come with the mod, do not produce any excess of treble aggressiveness, brightness, harshness, or fatigue... If this is correct let me know....I need this confirmed before I can take the jump... Thanks


----------



## Guidostrunk

No aggression at all. It's amazing how it can extend to the very edge without any glare, dryness, or sibilance during big dynamic swings. In comparison the stock LP was quite boring. 


sahmen said:


> Encouraging to hear...  But if you're not getting any sleep, then one reason might be that the extra detail retrieval and dynamism that come with the mod, do not produce any excess of treble aggressiveness, brightness, harshness, or fatigue... If this is correct let me know....I need this confirmed before I can take the jump... Thanks


----------



## TK16

I may interested,  need to think about it. Seems all who did the mod are extremely happy. The amp is solid, been running adapter tubes 95 % of the time. Probably thousands of hours. I prefer running the MJ2 as an amp over the LP. Been running the MJ2 as a preamp with the LP for about a year.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> I may interested,  need to think about it. Seems all who did the mod are extremely happy. The amp is solid, been running adapter tubes 95 % of the time. Probably thousands of hours. I prefer running the MJ2 as an amp over the LP. Been running the MJ2 as a preamp with the LP for about a year.


Everyone is doing man, go for it!  I love the LP as is, so any improvement on the already killer sound, is gonna be awesome to hear.


----------



## Noobzilla

Thanks for the reviews on the modded LP! I have been shopping around for a balanced amp to go with my RME ADI-2 and Meze Empyrean. I have been eyeing the LP since it is not super expensive compared to other potential upgrades, it is small, and tubes can be replaced. 

@Slim1970 I see you have the modded LP connected to your Hugo 2. If you ever decide to test it with the ADI-2, please let me know!



ksorota said:


> I am using Elna Silmic II caps, but if someone wanted another brand (nichigon, rubycon, etc.) I could change those out as well.


Are Elna Silmic II caps the best caps? How is the LP voided? Can't the original capacitors be solder back in there for warranty return in case it breaks?


----------



## nwavesailor

Wes S said:


> Everyone is doing man, go for it!



This sounds like something my mother would say when I was young "If Wes S jumped off a bridge would you?"  

I ordered the 6 caps (Silmic and Audio note) and with my desoldering station I will do this mod. I took the LP apart last night and it will be a pretty straight forward cap swap for me with the right tools.


----------



## nwavesailor (Jun 29, 2020)

Noobzilla said:


> Are Elna Silmic II caps the best caps? How is the LP voided? Can't the original capacitors be solder back in there for warranty return in case it breaks?


Yes, you could carefully swap the old caps back in the LP.


----------



## ksorota (Jun 29, 2020)

Are Elna Silmic II caps the best caps? How is the LP voided? Can't the original capacitors be solder back in there for warranty return in case it breaks? 
[/QUOTE]

On the basic principle of Ethics...by opening the LP up you are foregoing the warranty.  (CYA out of the way)

Yes, the og caps could always be swapped back in to bring the unit back to stock.  Their are no warranty tags/stickers damaged during the opening process (or anywhere at all) so not sure how anyone would actually know  

I really like the Elna's, but if you had a preference I could use those as well.  The Nichigon and Rubycons are supposed to be pretty good.  There are other obsure caps out their, but they get expensive fast. 

Keith


----------



## Guidostrunk

Thought you guys might like to read this comparison between caps. 
http://tech.juaneda.com/en/articles/electrolyticcapacitors.html


----------



## Noobzilla (Jun 29, 2020)

Hmmmm now I wonder if the LP can be modded so the capacitors are not soldered into the board. Instead, solder something that would allow capacitor hot swapping.

edit: like how we can swap out the tubes


----------



## nwavesailor

Noobzilla, this is an inexpensive mod and the Elna are very good caps. Keith is right, look at what some exotic caps cost and you could spend a few hundred dollars just for those 6 alone.


----------



## Slim1970

nwavesailor said:


> Noobzilla, this is an inexpensive mod and the Elna are very good caps. Keith is right, look at what some exotic caps cost and you could spend a few hundred dollars just for those 6 alone.


I can't imagine getting a better tone out of the LP than what Elna Silmic II caps add to the mix.


----------



## Noobzilla

ksorota said:


> My first experience with the LP was with Guidostrunks with upgrade 7730 tubes...and it sounded nice but also distorted like crazy at moderately low volume levels. With the stock tubes provided with Slim1970's LP I was not overly impressed, especially not with the Ether C Flow's.
> 
> After replacing the caps the distortion went away at moderate/moderate volumes and the amp really took on a new sonorous and enveloping nature...overall just really engaging. Needless to say I was surprised by the change.



Can you elaborate on the distortion? The lower the volume, the more distortion? Now I'm worried because I have easy-to-drive phones and I'm generally a low-ish volume listener.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I have very sensitive phones as well. The distortion would happen with my cans when I started to go past the 10 o'clock mark and by 11 the sound was a mess. I usually listen around the 65 to 75 db area. 
Now I can get to 11 no problem and the sound just expands and remains absolutely clean and clear. 

If I were to guess what caused the distortion. It would be the caps lol. Meaning that I don't think they could keep up with the demands of the design. 
Don't hold me to that though. Just speculation.


Noobzilla said:


> Can you elaborate on the distortion? The lower the volume, the more distortion? Now I'm worried because I have easy-to-drive phones and I'm generally a low-ish volume listener.


----------



## Zachik

nwavesailor said:


> This sounds like something my mother would say when I was young "If Wes S jumped off a bridge would you?"


Since (I think) I have similar taste to @Wes S - yeah, if Wes S jumped off a bridge I may jump too!


----------



## LCMusicLover

Zachik said:


> Since (I think) I have similar taste to @Wes S - yeah, if Wes S jumped off a bridge I may jump too!


Me too apparently


----------



## Sandifop (Jul 2, 2020)

Noobzilla said:


> Can you elaborate on the distortion? The lower the volume, the more distortion? Now I'm worried because I have easy-to-drive phones and I'm generally a low-ish volume listener.


Hi Noobzilla,

I’m going to stick my nose into the distortion issue and then relate why I am going with a capacitor swap.

The Liquid Platinum (LP) was evaluated to operate with an impedance between 33 and 300 ohms by the people responsible for the documentation. The manufacturer did not sell the LP to be used outside of that specification. My Ether 2 headphones have an impedance of 16 ohms, and one needs more transducer friendly energy available when their headphones have very low impedance. (Or you risk “Bad Things.”©️) That said, there are a sizable number of people out there running 16-ohm cans off _*THEIR*_ LP amps and love the result. I was not one of them.

Now, I walked away from engineering when I found out it was spelled with ”ee”s but from what I understand:
- Results become unpredictable when you are playing outside design tolerances. Your individual unit might work, someone else may experience issues.
- Big transformers help drive low impedance transducers. However, everyone who has an LP likely has a transformer with similar specs, and dropping a thicc toroidal transformer onto the LP chassis might be (is) more work and expense than the LP is worth.

So, why change capacitors?

Capacitors are a critical part of the power stage and audio often benefits from better capacitor sourcing. One can find that capacitors from different manufacturers (or different capacitors from a maker with poor quality control) will handle performance at/outside the margins differently. So, Bob is listening outside of the design spec (at 16 ohms in this case) on his LP with brand X capacitors with good results. Betty‘s LP has brand Y capacitors (because $500) and they are less tolerant at the edges. Betty’s distorts when power demand rises, and most of the time that is all that happens if she is lucky. The difference between Bob and Betty's experience might be the capacitors. Or not.

Betty might have checked her impedance on her favorite headphones but also read that it worked for Bob and gambled it should work for her. It could have paid off. In my case, and Betty’s, it didn’t so we can either return/resell the LP, use higher impedance headphones with the LP, or mod the LP to try making it work with a 16-ohm load. I like how the LP sounds on my other cans ... a lot ... so I went with plan c to see if the Ether 2 would also benefit. Again, or not.

[edit: Important note - modding the amp is still living outside the LP design criteria. Get an amp that was designed to drive your headphone impedance if you want a sure thing. “There is no replacement for displacement” when it comes to transformers and low impedance transducers.]


----------



## Sandifop

TK16 said:


> Does this mod void your 5 year warranty? Mod does sound incredible though the people that got the mod done.


Almost certainly, this will void your warranty.


----------



## Wes S

Caps are in and my baby is already on her way back to me, and I should have her by Monday.   I am so freaking pumped, I can barely contain myself!  I have to say, @ksorota is a great person to work with. I will most definitely be reporting back on how she sounds, once I have had some quality listening time.


----------



## Sandifop

Wes S said:


> Caps are in and my baby is already on her way back to me, and I should have her by Monday.   I am so freaking pumped, I can barely contain myself!  I have to say, @ksorota is a great person to work with. I will most definitely be reporting back on how she sounds, once I have had some quality listening time.


Looking forward to reading of your impressions.


----------



## ksorota

Wes S said:


> Caps are in and my baby is already on her way back to me, and I should have her by Monday.   I am so freaking pumped, I can barely contain myself!  I have to say, @ksorota is a great person to work with. I will most definitely be reporting back on how she sounds, once I have had some quality listening time.



I should have two more completed tonight and back on their way home tomorrow


----------



## Wes S

ksorota said:


> I should have two more completed tonight and back on their way home tomorrow


Nice!  This is gonna be fun getting to experience the upgrade with more members!  I feel like I am going to hear the LP for the first time again, and man what an experience that was.


----------



## nwavesailor (Jul 6, 2020)

I upgraded my LP caps to the Elna's last night but had very ittle time to listen. Initial impressions are good but IMO not night and day.........again very little time at this point so perhaps it WILL be jaw dropping upon further review! 

_EDIT:
It is INDEED a very nice step up, particularly in clarity and detail!_


----------



## Sandifop

nwavesailor said:


> I upgraded my LP caps to the Elna's last night but had very ittle time to listen. Initial impressions are good but IMO not night and day.........again very little time at this point so perhaps it WILL be jaw dropping upon further review!
> 
> _EDIT:
> It is INDEED a very nice step up, particularly in clarity and detail!_


Those are both areas one would want to improve in amps at the LP price point. Thanks!


----------



## Wes S (Jul 6, 2020)

My LP is back in the house!  I just fired it up, and the music is flowing.   I am gonna let the caps burn in a bit (100 hours) before I get to the critical listening, but immediately I can tell a veil has been lifted, and everything sounds even more lifelike than before.  I will report back, after I hit the 100 hour mark.


----------



## shafat777

^^
Probably gonna send mine in after hearing your impressions. Really excited.


----------



## Wes S

shafat777 said:


> ^^
> Probably gonna send mine in after hearing your impressions. Really excited.


Nice!  So far, even with only 30 minutes of listening time, I can highly recommend doing it.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Mine's sitting at my post office waiting to be delivered tomorrow


----------



## Sandifop

Wes S said:


> My LP is back in the house!  I just fired it up, and the music is flowing.   I am gonna let the caps burn in a bit (100 hours) before I get to the critical listening, but immediately I can tell a veil has been lifted, and everything sounds even more lifelike than before.  I will report back, after I hit the 100 hour mark.


I'm burning and listening (through HD 58X currently). Worth the dime on the Dropenheisers. The Ethers will be back in the house on Wednesday. That will be a test. My E2s were not happy with being paired to the LP when I last tried it.


----------



## Slim1970

Wes S said:


> My LP is back in the house!  I just fired it up, and the music is flowing.   I am gonna let the caps burn in a bit (100 hours) before I get to the critical listening, but immediately I can tell a veil has been lifted, and everything sounds even more lifelike than before.  I will report back, after I hit the 100 hour mark.


Do you think you can make it that long, lol.


----------



## LCMusicLover (Jul 6, 2020)

LCMusicLover said:


> Mine's sitting at my post office waiting to be delivered tomorrow


Apparently I was mistaken — LP was waiting for me to pick it up.

Caps burning in right now!


----------



## nwavesailor (Jul 7, 2020)

Not a big burn in _but_ electrolytic caps do take a_ little_ time. 100 hours? I don't think so, but perhaps I am wrong. 

My cap upgrade sounded good in, at most, an hour. Perhaps it will sound mo betta with 99 more, hard to say!

Perhaps I should stay out of who believes in cable, tube, and cap burn in time and leave this topic alone!!!!!!


----------



## LCMusicLover

LCMusicLover said:


> Apparently I was mistaken — LP was waiting for me to pick it up.
> 
> Caps burning in right now!


Gumby ==> Cap-modded LP/Genelex Gold Lions ==> HEKse ... oh yeah!

Not providing detailed impressions until the weekend -- let the caps burn in first.

But I will say that, vs DSHA-3F w/ Nickel transformers, the sound is really close. Tonality is nearly indistinguishable. Still a little more air from the 3F. I presume that will hold w/ LP/Brimar tubes vs 3F/Amorphous transfomers.  

I'm looking forward to hearing all my cans from my _new_ LP and hearing how the mod plays with various tubes.


----------



## Slim1970

LCMusicLover said:


> Gumby ==> Cap-modded LP/Genelex Gold Lions ==> HEKse ... oh yeah!
> 
> Not providing detailed impressions until the weekend -- let the caps burn in first.
> 
> ...


You should try the 7730 tubes with adapters. I've never heard my Susvara's or HEKse's sound this good or reach this level of performance until the modded LP and 7730 or 5814wa tubes. 

My setup is: Hugo 2 ==> Schiit Loki ==> Cap-modded LP/ 7730 or 5814wa tubes ==> _any headphones_ the sound is ridiculous. 

The HEKse's have so much slam and impact but yet sound so detailed, spacious and musical. I'm floored by the combo and what you're hearing is no fluke. The Susvara's are just next level on the modded LP. I haven't heard any amp that drives them like the modded LP does and I've tried a good number of them.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 7, 2020)

Slim1970 said:


> You should try the 7730 tubes with adapters. I've never heard my Susvara's or HEKse's sound this good or reach this level of performance until the modded LP and 7730 or 5814wa tubes.
> 
> My setup is: Hugo 2 ==> Schiit Loki ==> Cap-modded LP/ 7730 or 5814wa tubes ==> _any headphones_ the sound is ridiculous.
> 
> The HEKse's have so much slam and impact but yet sound so detailed, spacious and musical. I'm floored by the combo and what you're hearing is no fluke. The Susvara's are just next level on the modded LP. I haven't heard any amp that drives them like the modded LP does and I've tried a good number of them.


Nice man!  Curious, what 6922 variants have you tried before rolling the 7730 & 5814a, so I can get a reference.  I have all the "holy grail" 5814 and 12au7's, but still have not tried them in the LP yet.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 7, 2020)

nwavesailor said:


> Not a big burn in _but_ electrolytic caps do take a_ little_ time. 100 hours? I don't think so, but perhaps I am wrong.
> 
> My cap upgrade sounded good in, at most, an hour. Perhaps it will sound mo betta with 99 more, hard to say!
> 
> Perhaps I should stay out of who believes in cable, tube, and cap burn in time and leave this topic alone!!!!!!


You might be right about the 100 mark, as what I was hearing at the end of the night last night, was blowing my mind.    The thing that really jumps out, is the inky black background.  I am still gonna wait for a good 50 - 60 hours, before I say more.


----------



## Slim1970

Wes S said:


> Nice man!  Curious, what 6922 variants have you tried before rolling the 7730 & 5814a, so I can get a reference.  I have all the "holy grail" 5814 and 12au7's, but still have not tried them in the LP yet.


None, I went straight for 5814wa with adapters after receiving my LP. I was using them with superb results until I received my 7730 tubes yesterday. Immediately after sticking the 7730 tubes in my modded LP I knew these are the tubes for me. Send @Guidostrunk a DM. He advised me and has endless knowledge on tubes. He may have tried them all.


----------



## Wes S

Slim1970 said:


> None, I went straight for 5814wa with adapters after receiving my LP. I was using them with superb results until I received my 7730 tubes yesterday. Immediately after sticking the 7730 tubes in my modded LP I knew these are the tubes for me. Send @Guidostrunk a DM. He advised me and has endless knowledge on tubes. He may have tried them all.


Thanks man!  I got in touch with @Guidostrunk, and I am gonna get to hear those 7730's real soon.


----------



## Slim1970

Wes S said:


> Thanks man!  I got in touch with @Guidostrunk, and I am gonna get to hear those 7730's real soon.


Nice! They are a joy to listen too.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 8, 2020)

So it's been a few days with the new caps, and 2 things keep coming to mind.

1.  The background is pitch black, which let's everything explode out of nowhere, and really gives you a deep view into the music.

2.  I don't have to skip or turn down the volume on songs that would get a little hot and cause fatigue due to distortion. Now, almost all of the songs in my music library sound amazing, and I can just sit back and let the music flow.

I just wanted to share that tid bit, and it's back to musical bliss/burn in.


----------



## Sandifop

Wes S said:


> So it's been a few days with the new caps, and 2 things keep coming to mind.
> 
> 1.  The background is pitch black, which let's everything explode out of nowhere, and really gives you a deep view into the music.
> 
> ...


One of the things that jumps out at me is some of my favorite albums had a crew of a producer addicted to overdrive and a drunk engineer on the mixer.


----------



## Sandifop

Wes S said:


> So it's been a few days with the new caps, and 2 things keep coming to mind.
> 
> 1.  The background is pitch black, which let's everything explode out of nowhere, and really gives you a deep view into the music.
> 
> ...


I can hear Jaacqueline du Pre talking to her cello. Priceless.


----------



## Wes S

Sandifop said:


> I can hear Jaacqueline du Pre talking to her cello. Priceless.


Awesome man!  That is what good gear is all about. I love hearing all the little nuances and detail, with zero harshness.


----------



## Sandifop

Wes S said:


> Awesome man!  That is what good gear is all about. I love hearing all the little nuances and detail, with zero harshness.


Well, there was a hint of harshness from my wife when I said I wanted to spend $150 on my 4th new HP amp. Just a bit.


----------



## Wes S

Sandifop said:


> Well, there was a hint of harshness from my wife when I said I wanted to spend $150 on my 4th new HP amp. Just a bit.


LOL!


----------



## Guidostrunk

HAHAHAHAHAHA!





Sandifop said:


> Well, there was a hint of harshness from my wife when I said I wanted to spend $150 on my 4th new HP amp. Just a bit.


----------



## nwavesailor (Jul 8, 2020)

A little dust on the PCB. This is the Elna cap upgrade I did.
 A BIG thank you to @ksoroto for coming up with this mod and choosing these Elna caps!!!!


----------



## ksorota

nwavesailor said:


> A little dust on the PCB. This is the Elna cap upgrade I did.
> A BIG thank you to @ksoroto for coming up with this mod and choosing these Elna caps!!!!


I am glad to say that i can’t take all the credit. If not for @Guidostrunk  this upgrade would not currently exists.  I did his GLMK2 upgrade and he had the good sense to apply it to the LP. 

Only problem now is that i constantly wonder how other amps could benefit from a similar upgrade. (MCTH for example).

Positive note, i now have my own LP coming my way!
I was always hesitant to pick up this amp (wasn’t sure i wanted to go down the tube road) but i am extremely glad to be joining the owners  club!!!


----------



## Slim1970

ksorota said:


> I am glad to say that i can’t take all the credit. If not for @Guidostrunk  this upgrade would not currently exists.  I did his GLMK2 upgrade and he had the good sense to apply it to the LP.
> 
> Only problem now is that i constantly wonder how other amps could benefit from a similar upgrade. (MCTH for example).
> 
> ...


The mod is sounding better than ever @ksorota. Glad to see that you will be enjoying your own work. You've earned it!


----------



## nwavesailor

ksorota said:


> I am glad to say that i can’t take all the credit. If not for @Guidostrunk  this upgrade would not currently exists.  I did his GLMK2 upgrade and he had the good sense to apply it to the LP.
> 
> Only problem now is that i constantly wonder how other amps could benefit from a similar upgrade. (MCTH for example).
> 
> ...



Just so folks know, you are NOT getting wealthy doing this mod.  $150 is a real bargain!

I have desoldered caps with fewer layers or a thinner ground plane on PCB's and they sometimes 'drop' out. These are not that easy. It is, however, a quality PCB so no concern for lifted pads or ripped traces.


----------



## Wes S

ksorota said:


> I am glad to say that i can’t take all the credit. If not for @Guidostrunk  this upgrade would not currently exists.  I did his GLMK2 upgrade and he had the good sense to apply it to the LP.
> 
> Only problem now is that i constantly wonder how other amps could benefit from a similar upgrade. (MCTH for example).
> 
> ...


That's awesome man!  I am glad you are joining the club.  It is only fitting, that the guy who made this amp sing, should own one.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I always look at it like we're all in it together. 
I've met some of the best people on here. Amazing when you can tune out the outside world and tune in to reality. 
 
Happy listening folks!


----------



## Sandifop

ksorota said:


> I am glad to say that i can’t take all the credit. If not for @Guidostrunk  this upgrade would not currently exists.  I did his GLMK2 upgrade and he had the good sense to apply it to the LP.
> 
> Only problem now is that i constantly wonder how other amps could benefit from a similar upgrade. (MCTH for example).
> 
> ...


I just happen to have a MCTH sitting...right...here. (And a Jot, and a Maxed Out Headroom...)


----------



## Zachik

Sandifop said:


> I just happen to have a MCTH sitting...right...here. (And a Jot, and a Maxed Out Headroom...)


I got a CTH, too. oh, and an LCX (and of course an LP)... hmmmm.....


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> I always look at it like we're all in it together.
> I've met some of the best people on here. Amazing when you can tune out the outside world and tune in to reality.
> 
> Happy listening folks!


Well said, and my thoughts exactly!


----------



## Wes S (Jul 9, 2020)

Sandifop said:


> I just happen to have a MCTH sitting...right...here. (And a Jot, and a Maxed Out Headroom...)


I would love to do the mod to my Jot!  I imagine if the Monoprice Liquid Gold ever comes out (I will be buying one for sure), that the cap mod could be killer on that as well.


----------



## LCMusicLover (Jul 9, 2020)

I listened for a few hours last night -- about 50 hours of burn-in on the caps.

The word which bubbles to the top is 'incisive'.

I primarily listened to Auteur, Ether 2 and HEKse.  For comparison I listened to the same chain (NUC PC ==> SU-1 ==> A2 Gumby ==> Hattor mini passive pre ==> amps ==> cans) feeding the LP and my DSHA 3F.  All analog connections are balanced and the Singxer feeds the Gumby via SP/DIF coax. 3F currently has Amorphous core transformers and I rolled some NOS Siemens E188CCs into the LP.

Amazingly, with the caps mod my LP and 3F are very close.  So much that I believe the differences produced by transformer and tube swaps over-shadow the differences between the amps. Prior to the caps mod the 3F stood above the LP primarily because of greater energy/liveliness. That difference is literally gone. Personally, I never heard the distortion others have written about, or maybe my brain just called it 'tubiness'. I suppose the LP is marginally 'less tuby' now, although I never thought it was very tuby to begin with.  I'll roll my Bugle Boys in tonight and listen again -- LP sounded the tubiest with them of all the tubes I have.

So what most of you will want to know is:

'Just how much of an improvement does the mod make?'  and  'Is it worth the money and invalidating your warranty?'

Sorry, can't definitively answer either question. I will say that I'm glad I did it, but I really liked my LP before the mod, so ... 

I guess it could all be 'placebo effect'. Without having modded and un-modded side-by-side all I can do is compare my memory to the current reality, and we all know how unreliable auditory memory can be.

I'll see if there's more to say at the weekend, by which point I'll have 100 hours of burn-in on the caps.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 9, 2020)

LCMusicLover said:


> I listened for a few hours last night -- about 50 hours of burn-in on the caps.
> 
> The word which bubbles to the top is 'incisive'.
> 
> ...


Good stuff!  With all that said, what I am gathering is that with the cap mod, the LP can now hang with a $2000 world class amp.  That's enough proof for me, that the cap mod is legit.


----------



## Sandifop (Jul 9, 2020)

LCMusicLover said:


> I listened for a few hours last night -- about 50 hours of burn-in on the caps.
> 
> The word which bubbles to the top is 'incisive'.
> 
> ...


My E2s are back from DCA with new drivers. I have not achieved the magic 100-hours of burn in but I am not finding the distortion I mentioned in my impression of the Ether 2 driven by the LP. However, I committed the cardinal error (not THAT Cardinal error) of changing two variables at the same time. (Caps and drivers) I’ll never know which contributed to the distortion.

So now I have impressions up in the forum that may or may not stand, but cast shade on what I believe are two fine products.

Crikey.


----------



## Sandifop

Sandifop said:


> My E2s are back from DCA with new drivers. I have not achieved the magic 100-hours of burn in but I am not finding the distortion I mentioned in my impression of the Ether 2 driven by the LP. However, I committed the cardinal error (not THAT Cardinal error) of changing two variables at the same time. (Caps and drivers) I’ll never know which contributed to the distortion.
> 
> So now I have impressions up in the forum that may or may not stand, but cast shade on what I believe are two fine products.
> 
> Crikey.


Hard lesson: keep  my big mouth shut.


----------



## sunni

Sorry, a noob's got finger-itchy now. I'm not in US so I think I can only do it myself. So... From my observation, it's like replacing all of the three big caps with even bigger ones and the medium one in the middle? Maybe not too hard for a noob like me?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Send @ksorota a pm. He can give you the details.


sunni said:


> Sorry, a noob's got finger-itchy now. I'm not in US so I think I can only do it myself. So... From my observation, it's like replacing all of the three big caps with even bigger ones and the medium one in the middle? Maybe not too hard for a noob like me?


----------



## ksorota (Jul 11, 2020)

I tried really hard last night, for a long time to convince myself that I liked the GSX-mini more than the LP-mod but in the end I had to concede.

To be more specific, for pure enjoyment of sound, realism and emotion, the LP-mod was easily on top. To make an analogy... the mini is like eating a freshly made banana split; each of the ingredients is layered beautifully, the ice cream is firm, the whipped cream is fluffy giving smoke support to the crushed up nuts and jimmies! Such a wonderful, inviting dessert you cannot wait to grab a spoon and dive into. The LP-mod is that same banana split 5-minutes later when all the ingredients are melted and melding together into the sumptuous, melty, creamy, decadent soup of flavor. You can still pick out the components of the b.s., but they are all blended into a perfect cocktail of flavor! The mini is more like if you kept all those ingredients in their original forms... still delicious but not quite as satisfying.

Another thought i had was that the mini is like being on the mixing board at a concert while the LP-mod is like being centrally located on the floor in front of the band, jumping with the crowd. Think live 311/incubus/coldplay/Tori Amos/The Verve!

Listening to music was more engaging emotionally and actually created a physical sensation of joy. I’m trying to find reasons to keep the mini... it’s nicer looking, has better volume control and a gain switch! The LP is the kind of the hill currently in my home, where it’s going to stay.

Tidal>bifrost mb unison> amp > HD600


The build on Daft Punks contact is amazing through the LP-mod, euphoric even!

1 month old Satin red GSX -mini listed for sale and no longer feeling sad about it.


----------



## Sandifop

ksorota said:


> I tried really hard last night, for a long time to convince myself that I liked the GSX-mini more than the LP-mod but in the end I had to concede.
> 
> To be more specific, for pure enjoyment of sound, realism and emotion, the LP-mod was easily on top. To make an analogy... the mini is like eating a freshly made banana split; each of the ingredients is layered beautifully, the ice cream is firm, the whipped cream is fluffy giving smoke support to the crushed up nuts and jimmies! Such a wonderful, inviting dessert you cannot wait to grab a spoon and dive into. The LP-mod is that same banana split 5-minutes later when all the ingredients are melted and melding together into the sumptuous, melty, creamy, decadent soup of flavor. You can still pick out the components of the b.s., but they are all blended into a perfect cocktail of flavor! The mini is more like if you kept all those ingredients in their original forms... still delicious but not quite as satisfying.
> 
> ...


Whoa. You know the LP is tube, right? That’s high praise from a SS guy.

Glad you enjoy it, and thank you for building mine.


----------



## Zachik

ksorota said:


> I tried really hard last night, for a long time to convince myself that I liked the GSX-mini more than the LP-mod but in the end I had to concede.
> 
> To be more specific, for pure enjoyment of sound, realism and emotion, the LP-mod was easily on top. To make an analogy... the mini is like eating a freshly made banana split; each of the ingredients is layered beautifully, the ice cream is firm, the whipped cream is fluffy giving smoke support to the crushed up nuts and jimmies! Such a wonderful, inviting dessert you cannot wait to grab a spoon and dive into. The LP-mod is that same banana split 5-minutes later when all the ingredients are melted and melding together into the sumptuous, melty, creamy, decadent soup of flavor. You can still pick out the components of the b.s., but they are all blended into a perfect cocktail of flavor! The mini is more like if you kept all those ingredients in their original forms... still delicious but not quite as satisfying.
> 
> ...


Did you try upgrading the caps on the GSX-mini??
Just wondering what that might do for its sound...


----------



## ksorota

Zachik said:


> Did you try upgrading the caps on the GSX-mini??
> Just wondering what that might do for its sound...


Yes. The GLMK2 is a great amp made even better by the upgraded caps. I am looking forward to the new power supply for it. Having the GLMK2 makes giving up the mini all the easier. Comparing SE to SE on the two headamp amps Is surprisingly close, Especially for casual listening.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Would be crazy to cap mod an already expensive amp to maybe beat out a modded LP. Lol


Zachik said:


> Did you try upgrading the caps on the GSX-mini??
> Just wondering what that might do for its sound...


----------



## Zachik

Guidostrunk said:


> Would be crazy to cap mod an already expensive amp to maybe beat out a modded LP. Lol


Well, depending on how big the improvement is - it might beat a $4K amps...


----------



## ksorota (Jul 11, 2020)

Zachik said:


> Well, depending on how big the improvement is - it might beat a $4K amps...


Hmmm didn’t realize you meant mini for some reason. I wouldnt dare try it at this point. Perhaps it would change the signature. If no one wants to take it off my hands then maybe!?


----------



## Wes S

My new caps are burned in and I can only echo what others have said.   

The tone and timbre are perfection, as in you are there, and the sound stage opened up and got a lot more 3D.  With the bigger more 3D like stage and pitch black background, I can see deeper into the recording and every instrument has it's own space, and this makes it much easier to pick up on the little nuances I have never heard or noticed before.  I really can't imagine it sounding any better, and I definitely have no desire to upgrade.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 12, 2020)

ksorota said:


> I tried really hard last night, for a long time to convince myself that I liked the GSX-mini more than the LP-mod but in the end I had to concede.
> 
> To be more specific, for pure enjoyment of sound, realism and emotion, the LP-mod was easily on top. To make an analogy... the mini is like eating a freshly made banana split; each of the ingredients is layered beautifully, the ice cream is firm, the whipped cream is fluffy giving smoke support to the crushed up nuts and jimmies! Such a wonderful, inviting dessert you cannot wait to grab a spoon and dive into. The LP-mod is that same banana split 5-minutes later when all the ingredients are melted and melding together into the sumptuous, melty, creamy, decadent soup of flavor. You can still pick out the components of the b.s., but they are all blended into a perfect cocktail of flavor! The mini is more like if you kept all those ingredients in their original forms... still delicious but not quite as satisfying.
> 
> ...


Wow!  That speaks volumes, that you have your mini listed for sale!  I know how famous that amp is.

PS. I have been to a 311 show, so know what you mean about the jumping up and down for 2 hours straight (the entire crowd).


----------



## Guidostrunk

I know that the LP on the used market is drying up fast due to the mod. I found this one on Canuck Auido Mart which comes out out to be $404 + shipping.
https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649620965-monoprice-liquid-platinum-mint/


----------



## Shane D

Guidostrunk said:


> I know that the LP on the used market is drying up fast due to the mod. I found this one on Canuck Auido Mart which comes out out to be $404 + shipping.
> https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649620965-monoprice-liquid-platinum-mint/



Wow, that is cheap! I paid over $1,000.00, landed, a few months ago (in Canada).


----------



## ksorota

Not sure how it happened...but I ended up with two LP's and now am trying to decide what to do with the second. If anyone is interested in purchasing my second one PM me.  I can ship it off tomorrow. Otherwise, I might be able to loan it out to a few members who want to compare it to their stock version. 

Best


----------



## LCMusicLover

ksorota said:


> Not sure how it happened...but I ended up with two LP's and now am trying to decide what to do with the second. If anyone is interested in purchasing my second one PM me.  I can ship it off tomorrow. Otherwise, I might be able to loan it out to a few members who want to compare it to their stock version.
> 
> Best


Funny! I ended up with two LPs at one point as well ... but at least I know how it happened


----------



## Sandifop

ksorota said:


> Not sure how it happened...but I ended up with two LP's and now am trying to decide what to do with the second. If anyone is interested in purchasing my second one PM me.  I can ship it off tomorrow. Otherwise, I might be able to loan it out to a few members who want to compare it to their stock version.
> 
> Best


I’d love two... but I’d love to stay married.


----------



## CreditingKarma

nwavesailor said:


> A little dust on the PCB. This is the Elna cap upgrade I did.
> A BIG thank you to @ksoroto for coming up with this mod and choosing these Elna caps!!!!



What are the values of the caps that you replaced? I am thinking about trying this with mundorf caps?


----------



## DowdyPrime

Newbie question, with upfront apologies.
Why do the two XLR connections in the images look different? Both are from the liquid platinum, but there's a little bit of metal in one that's missing from the other. What's the purpose? Thanks!


----------



## Clemmaster

It locks the XLR male plug in place. It's not necessary.


----------



## LCMusicLover

DowdyPrime said:


> Newbie question, with upfront apologies.
> Why do the two XLR connections in the images look different? Both are from the liquid platinum, but there's a little bit of metal in one that's missing from the other. What's the purpose? Thanks!


These are two different LPs?

The picture on the left shows 'locking' XLR jacks/receptacles . When you insert the male XLR, there's a 'click' and then the cables won't come out unless you press the release (lever, tab, mechanism ... whatever you call it). Some equipment use them, others don't.  For example, The Jot & Mjolnir from Schiit do not, nor do Cayin amps.  My ECP DSHA-3F doesn't have them either. Conversely, Benchmark HPA4 does. 

It's just a design choice. I skimmed through some images of the LP, and it appears that pictures of LPs in the wild do not have the locking/release mechanism.  The pictures I see which do include them all appear to be drawn from the Monolith site, which had some 'pre-release' photos, presumably of a prototype.  I'll have to go home and look at mine, as I honestly don't recall whether or not my has the locking/release thingees.


----------



## DowdyPrime (Jul 13, 2020)

Thanks, @Clemmaster  ! [Not sure I follow the spoiler, ?] But that makes sense. Thanks.

@LCMusicLover, you are right. One is from the website, the other (without the locking) is from real life. I thought I'd seen the locking ones IRL picture too, but I was probably mistaken. Thanks, both.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 13, 2020)

DowdyPrime said:


> Thanks, @Clemmaster  ! [Not sure I follow the spoiler, ?] But that makes sense. Thanks.
> 
> @LCMusicLover, you are right. One is from the website, the other (without the locking) is from real life. I thought I'd seen the locking ones IRL picture too, but I was probably mistaken. Thanks, both.


I asked the same question when I got mine.  I imagine it had something to do with cost savings.  As far as I know, the locking XLR inputs never actually made it's way out in the wild.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Wes S said:


> ... the locking XLR inputs never actually made it's way out in the wild.


Sort of like adjustable gain


----------



## Shane D

Wes S said:


> I asked the same question when I got mine.  I imagine it had something to do with cost savings.  As far as I know, the locking XLR inputs never actually made it's way out in the wild.



I was about to write and state that mine has those. Then I looked and it was the Violectric that has them.
Always look before you speak.


----------



## Wes S

LCMusicLover said:


> Sort of like adjustable gain


Exactly!


----------



## Wes S

So this cap mod, and the LP going to another level of performance is really getting to me.  I can't stop thinking about how freaking amazing it sounds, and it is making my days at work seem even longer.  I start thinking about the LP pretty much the second I wake up, and then every couple of minutes throughout the day.  I just want to get home and fire that thing up!  Is it 5:00 pm yet?


----------



## LCMusicLover

Wes S said:


> ...Is it 5:00 pm yet?


Somewhere


----------



## Guidostrunk

I hear you bro. I'm in the same boat lol.


Wes S said:


> So this cap mod, and the LP going to another level of performance is really getting to me.  I can't stop thinking about how freaking amazing it sounds, and it is making my days at work seem even longer.  I start thinking about the LP pretty much the second I wake up, and then every couple of minutes throughout the day.  I just want to get home and fire that thing up!  Is it 5:00 pm yet?


----------



## ra990

OK, I've been pretty intrigued by this mod, but I don't want to mess with the warranty yet. I wonder if such a simple upgrade made such a dramatic difference, why it wasn't put in the first place by @runeight ? Could it be that the mod is just changing the sound signature to something that is accentuating particular frequencies or something like that, giving the impression of a huge massive performance upgrade?


----------



## nwavesailor

The simple answer is cost. The practical multiples ($) of audio manufacturing would not allow for better (more $) caps or big $$$ resistors and still retail for very little money.

The LP is inexpensive and sounds great stock.


----------



## arashn

nwavesailor said:


> The simple answer is cost. The practical multiples ($) of audio manufacturing would not allow for better (more $) caps or big $$$ resistors and still retail for very little money.
> 
> The LP is inexpensive and sounds great stock.


But how much are the capacitors versus the cost of labor and shipping included in the upgrade fee.  I share the question ra990 had.


----------



## ra990 (Jul 14, 2020)

The way its been described, it seems that it puts the amp in another league with a simple upgrade. So, they could have charged a little more and ended up with a much better performing product.

Also, is there anyone who has done a good side-by-side comparison or are all the impressions of the differences from memory?


----------



## skor

@ksorota has graciously allowed me to demo vs my stock LP.  I'll be providing my A-B comparisons upon receiving.


----------



## LCMusicLover

@ra990 -- valid questions.


ra990 said:


> ...Could it be that the mod is just changing the sound signature to something that is accentuating particular frequencies or something like that, giving the impression of a huge massive performance upgrade?


To my ears, no.  I would never characterize the change as a 'huge massive performance upgrade'. More importantly, I would say that the tonality (which is what I assume you're getting at when asking about changes to the sound signature) is not changed significantly. Rather I would say the tonality is changed 'very little', if at all. To my ears, the mods affected the sound quality in other ways:  My Impressions


ra990 said:


> ...Also, is there anyone who has done a good side-by-side comparison or are all the impressions of the differences from memory?


From memory here.  However, I A/B'd my LP (before and after mod) vs DSHA-3F, so that comparison is the basis for my comments.

BTW, my mod now has 100+ hours, so I assume it is fully burned in without changing my impressions. Maybe a bit 'more of the same', or maybe just more brain burn-in.


----------



## ra990

skor said:


> @ksorota has graciously allowed me to demo vs my stock LP.  I'll be providing my A-B comparisons upon receiving.


Great! Really looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 15, 2020)

ra990 said:


> The way its been described, it seems that it puts the amp in another league with a simple upgrade. So, they could have charged a little more and ended up with a much better performing product.
> 
> Also, is there anyone who has done a good side-by-side comparison or are all the impressions of the differences from memory?


From what I remember reading, the goal was to come in a certain price, so they made some compromises on the quality of certain parts.  Also, this amp is very good in stock form, so the cap mod just gives it a little more performance that takes it to another level.  The difference although small, was obvious to me, and could easily be picked out if I had two side by side.  This is from memory of course, but I have listened with my LP almost everyday for a year in stock form, so I am pretty accustomed to the sound.  The cap mod creates a blacker background no doubt, and let's the music come through like you are there.


----------



## Sandifop (Jul 15, 2020)

I'm almost loath to put this out on forum but... *sigh*... here goes. The mod didn't change my E2 and LP issue: I still get distortion at, what in my opinion are, reasonable listing levels on the LP after the cap changed. The LP sounds great with my Dropennheisers 58X and the E2s are lovely on the Jot, so I'm good. I think I see another set of cans in my future, ones that rate above 33ohms.

I had an unreasonable hope the cap change might allow me to use the E2 and LP with music that liked more gain and was willing to test it. It didn't pan out. The E2+LP(capped) are pretty good at lower sound levels, however.


----------



## malocadi

How well can this drive LCD4s? I'm still trying to understand capability based on specs.


----------



## CreditingKarma

malocadi said:


> How well can this drive LCD4s? I'm still trying to understand capability based on specs.



It has no issues driving the ABYSS AB-1266 PHI TC  so it should have no issue driving the lcd 4


----------



## Sandifop

CreditingKarma said:


> It has no issues driving the ABYSS AB-1266 PHI TC  so it should have no issue driving the lcd 4


I don’t have an answer for this question so I was giving it a pass; however, I think one will be delighted if they stay within the 33-300 ohms published by Monoprice. (Most folk I’ve heard from like the LP even outside of that range) 

Lower impedance cans may distort on dynamic passages, ( I suspect this in my case) and higher impedance just won’t get loud enough for many folk.


----------



## Guidostrunk

@Slim1970  has no issues driving the Susvara fwiw.


----------



## sunni

Really appreciate @ksorota 's help, his informative guide made a noob completed his caps mod!

I'm not good at finding the differences, describing it could be more difficult, anyway I'll try my best, in my way. Note that I've only got 30 hours of burn-in, so it could sound better, but I don't think I really find much difference from the hour 0 to now, maybe it sounds a bit smoother now? And I've forgot about the OG LP sounding already so...

My have 3 main impression on the change of sound, and I will certainly exaggerate the difference:

Smoother treble. Sometimes I wished the treble could be a bit smoother on the OG LP, as I found my modded HD650 could be occasionally a tiny bit too hot, not to mention modded HD800 (yes, I love warm and dark sounding). But today, I used modded HD800 for the whole day without much fatiguing. Female vocal is smooth or even sweet, love it!
Cleaner sound. It's like this mod washed away some of the mud in the sound, now things sound slimmer after the mod, kinda like some old Hifiman style slim sound. But theose old Hifiman headphones sounds empty when I looked away from those highly focused sounds, but on the modded LP, when I look away, I see (or hear) microdetail. With sweeter treble, female vocal gives a lot more emotion now. It just sounds nutritious, and yummy!
snappier sound. The bass might not become heavier, but the punch became harder, and a bit faster sound (is this called "transient response"?) This is like Focal headphones, hits harder and acts faster, yes please!
So... Wait... It's like combining my favorite parts of HD650, old Hifiman and Focal... Is it too good to be true? I don't know, but I really haven't found any weakness yet... Again, the differences are not as pronounced as in words, but they are there, and I think this combination of improvement is great.

Or, actually there's one drawback for me: I usually found myself listening under higher volume now, because the treble spike is much better on HD800 now, and, I want more. Not healthy!

This is my impression of the mod currently, do take my words with a grain of salt, as I haven't used any better amp than LP, so there's no more comparison, and I'm using a pair of cheapo NOS Russian tubes. Oh, I'm in China so the caps I bought might not even be genuine... So your experience could be better than mine, as they were all mentioning better tube rolling result, and the caps you get would only be >= mine.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Guidostrunk said:


> @Slim1970  has no issues driving the Susvara fwiw.


HE-6se was 'marginal'. Played 'loud enough' but it was turned all the way up.  I actually discovered that about 3:00 on the volume knob maxed it out -- volume didn't increase after that.


----------



## Slim1970

Guidostrunk said:


> @Slim1970  has no issues driving the Susvara fwiw.


Yep, with my Hugo 2 as the DAC I can get the Susvara to really sing at 10 - 1 o'clock on the dial. That depends on where I have the volume setting on the Hugo 2. With the mods and the upgraded tubes, it's actually the best I've heard my Susvara's sound from a headphone amp. The LCD 4's should be a breeze for the LP to drive, especially with the gain setting so high on it. It would have been nice if the LP included a gain switch.


----------



## ra990 (Jul 15, 2020)

Sandifop said:


> I'm almost loath to put this out on forum but... *sigh*... here goes. The mod didn't change my E2 and LP issue: I still get distortion at, what in my opinion are, reasonable listing levels on the LP after the cap changed. The LP sounds great with my Dropennheisers 58X and the E2s are lovely on the Jot, so I'm good. I think I see another set of cans in my future, ones that rate above 33ohms.
> 
> I had an unreasonable hope the cap change might allow me to use the E2 and LP with music that liked more gain and was willing to test it. It didn't pan out. The E2+LP(capped) are pretty good at lower sound levels, however.


Sandifop, I don't doubt you're having this issue with your E2 and the LP at all, but I swear I had no issues with that combo - and loved it. Just as I'm loving the LP now with the Aeon 2, which have a 13ohm impedance. There are so many people in this thread that have also vouched for that combo. There's none of what you're talking about on my unit. Have you considered that you might have a defective LP? Have you been able to try another unit to see if you have the same issue?

What's funny is my Peachtree Nova500 does have trouble with the low impedance headphones and I hear distortion beyond low listening levels on the Aeon 2 and Ether 2, so I know what you're talking about - it just never happened with my LP.


----------



## LCMusicLover

ra990 said:


> Sandifop, I don't doubt you're having this issue with your E2 and the LP at all, but I swear I had no issues with that combo ...


Same here. I don’t know what’s going on with @Sandifop ’s system. Extremely unfortunate.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 16, 2020)

sunni said:


> Really appreciate @ksorota 's help, his informative guide made a noob completed his caps mod!
> 
> I'm not good at finding the differences, describing it could be more difficult, anyway I'll try my best, in my way. Note that I've only got 30 hours of burn-in, so it could sound better, but I don't think I really find much difference from the hour 0 to now, maybe it sounds a bit smoother now? And I've forgot about the OG LP sounding already so...
> 
> ...


Good stuff, and I would definitely try a better pair of tubes and you might have even better results.


----------



## Wes S

Sandifop said:


> I'm almost loath to put this out on forum but... *sigh*... here goes. The mod didn't change my E2 and LP issue: I still get distortion at, what in my opinion are, reasonable listing levels on the LP after the cap changed. The LP sounds great with my Dropennheisers 58X and the E2s are lovely on the Jot, so I'm good. I think I see another set of cans in my future, ones that rate above 33ohms.
> 
> I had an unreasonable hope the cap change might allow me to use the E2 and LP with music that liked more gain and was willing to test it. It didn't pan out. The E2+LP(capped) are pretty good at lower sound levels, however.


Bummer about your E2, and that does sound a bit different than what others are experiencing.  I am curious what tubes are you using?


----------



## Sandifop

Wes S said:


> Bummer about your E2, and that does sound a bit different than what others are experiencing.  I am curious what tubes are you using?


Hey Wes, I’ve used the stock Electro-Harmonic, Gold Pin JJ, and 1974 NOS 6N23Ps. To be clear, it isn’t the E2 or the LP but both together. I’ve found others in the wild that note some LP units are not happy with low impedance cans, I guess the parts bin gods were not in my favor. The E2s are ‘nice’ with most studio music with the LP+E2 but as the dynamics get lively the 58X are more lovely. 

DCA dropped new drivers into my E2s and they are doing everything right. I plug them into the Jot and they are great. The Prelude loves them, too. You know, some gear just don’t vibe.


----------



## Sandifop

LCMusicLover said:


> Same here. I don’t know what’s going on with @Sandifop ’s system. Extremely unfortunate.


I would certainly not take it as representative. My experience is an outlier; a dot outside the main distribution with this. It never sounds awful at most listening levels. I’m still A/Bing to see if its earwax, but every time the music gets lively things seem to get crowded with the E2+LP.


----------



## Sandifop

ra990 said:


> Sandifop, I don't doubt you're having this issue with your E2 and the LP at all, but I swear I had no issues with that combo - and loved it. Just as I'm loving the LP now with the Aeon 2, which have a 13ohm impedance. There are so many people in this thread that have also vouched for that combo. There's none of what you're talking about on my unit. Have you considered that you might have a defective LP? Have you been able to try another unit to see if you have the same issue?
> 
> What's funny is my Peachtree Nova500 does have trouble with the low impedance headphones and I hear distortion beyond low listening levels on the Aeon 2 and Ether 2, so I know what you're talking about - it just never happened with my LP.


I’m becoming loath spotlighting my issue b/c it casts shade on two great pieces of gear. Some shopper will browse the inter-threads and think the E2 or LP is a bad gamble.

I’m pretty sure I screwed myself with the warranty. (Replaced the caps) For me, it isn’t a puzzle. The LP wasn’t designed for low impedance cans, I should have thought about the possibility of ‘me’ happening. But hey, HD 58X or any of my other cans are loving the LP.


----------



## DowdyPrime (Jul 16, 2020)

@Sandifop Lest you think you are entirely alone... I’m experiencing (the same?) slight distortion in the high vocal range with a pair of Oppo PM-3, even at low volumes. They are rated at 26 Ohm, and, until a pair of HD6xx arrive, are the only pair I can test. I received my LP from Monoprice at the beginning of July. How old is yours? At any rate, I’ll report back when I’ve determined whether its the fault of the Oppos’ or not. But I’m hearing something similar.


----------



## Sandifop

DowdyPrime said:


> @Sandifop Lest you think you are entirely alone... I’m experiencing (the same?) slight distortion in the high vocal range with a pair of Oppo PM-3, even at low volumes. They are rated at 26 Ohm, and, until a pair of HD6xx arrive, are the only pair I can test. I received my LP from Monoprice at the beginning of July. How old is yours? At any rate, I’ll report back when I’ve determined whether its the fault of the Oppos’ or not. But I’m hearing something similar.


@DowdyPrime I received my LP new from Monoprice in the first week of June; we could certainly be sharing bits from the bin. I’m keen to know what you find.


----------



## ksorota

I have been hesitant to put this up because under normal listening conditions I did not detect a difference other than the amount of gain and position of the volume knob during listening. 

The original board, version 308 is the first set of pictures, which shows some component differences and possibly some late stage "fixes" as compared to the more commonly (at least of the boards I have looked at) found boards when doing the cap swap.




The major component differences are the sockets, and the parts on the underside near the top center...to the right of the blue rectangle (hole in the board).  The other strange "fix" are the two wires along the lower edge of the underside photo.  A long one on the left and a short one on the right bridging two components.  

Here are the photos of the version 310 board. 



Gone are the components near the blue rectangle at the top of the board, and also gone are the bridging wires. 

Like I said, the main difference was the position on the volume knob for volume matching between the amps, but I wonder if with low impedance cans if their is a side affect of poorer sound!? 

I have not been paying too close attention to board versions since finding this change.  @Sandifop , you have the newer revision board...I know that for sure since I have only seen two of the version 308's, that is not to say you dont have a later version of the board that did not have any outward changes.  The LP I currently am loaning out is a version 308, but I have a version 310 that I am using.  So when the loaner comes back, I can make a more in depth comparison between the two version and see if I can find any other differences.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 16, 2020)

ksorota said:


> I have been hesitant to put this up because under normal listening conditions I did not detect a difference other than the amount of gain and position of the volume knob during listening.
> 
> The original board, version 308 is the first set of pictures, which shows some component differences and possibly some late stage "fixes" as compared to the more commonly (at least of the boards I have looked at) found boards when doing the cap swap.
> 
> ...


Interesting!  I have had 3 LP's and the first one bought when they first came out, had bad channel imbalance and the volume got way to loud to quick, the 2nd one had really bad channel imbalance around 9 -10 on the dial but better volume range on the pot.  The 3rd I am currently using has no channel imbalance at all, and much better range on the pot.  Also, I noticed that on my first unit (early production) the tubes were damn near impossible to put in and take out.  I mean I thought I was seriously going to break something when putting in the tubes the first time.  With the 2nd and 3rd units the tubes went in and out much much easier, which makes since seeing they changed the sockets.  Aside from the internal changes you just found, the power brick has also been changed from the earlier model, but not sure how much that effects things.


----------



## Sandifop (Jul 16, 2020)

ksorota said:


> I have been hesitant to put this up because under normal listening conditions I did not detect a difference other than the amount of gain and position of the volume knob during listening.
> 
> The original board, version 308 is the first set of pictures, which shows some component differences and possibly some late stage "fixes" as compared to the more commonly (at least of the boards I have looked at) found boards when doing the cap swap.
> 
> ...


I owe you more donuts than I could ever hope to get fresh from Dunkin. Next up: correlation, coincidence, or cause.

[edit: or ear wax]


----------



## Inoculator

It will be really interesting to hear some thoughts on the differences between the LP revisions. I have an original one, and it has been rock solid great channel balance, but the gain is absolutely crazy on it. I have had a balanced pre-amp in my system ever since getting it, so gain has not been an issue (just set LP to 1-2 o'clock and control volume at the pre). It makes sense they changed the gain, but I never thought about how that may have affected overall performance.


----------



## ra990

I'm pretty sure I have the most recent version because I have no issues with gain or channel balance at even the lowest volume levels. Is there any way to tell easily? What was the most recent version's serial number, if anyone has one? Might give us an idea of the range.


----------



## Inoculator

ra990 said:


> I'm pretty sure I have the most recent version because I have no issues with gain or channel balance at even the lowest volume levels. Is there any way to tell easily? What was the most recent version's serial number, if anyone has one? Might give us an idea of the range.



If you can get past about 10-11 o'clock on the volume knob without your ears bleeding, you probably have the new one. 

Seriously though, running without a preamp, I cannot comfortably get past 9 o'clock on the knob when driving 300 ohm headphones.


----------



## DowdyPrime

ra990 said:


> I'm pretty sure I have the most recent version because I have no issues with gain or channel balance at even the lowest volume levels. Is there any way to tell easily? What was the most recent version's serial number, if anyone has one? Might give us an idea of the range.



I received mine two week ago. The serial numbers ends with 900325.


----------



## ksorota

ra990 said:


> I'm pretty sure I have the most recent version because I have no issues with gain or channel balance at even the lowest volume levels. Is there any way to tell easily? What was the most recent version's serial number, if anyone has one? Might give us an idea of the range.


 Take a look at the photos i posted a page back. The sockets are diff between the two versions. What @Inoculator said is also true!


----------



## ra990

ksorota said:


> Take a look at the photos i posted a page back. The sockets are diff between the two versions. What @Inoculator said is also true!


Didn't notice such an obvious visual difference in the sockets! I'll check mine to confirm after I turn it off for the day. Thanks for sharing all this new information about the amp!


----------



## malocadi (Jul 19, 2020)

Proud new owner of the LP and my first tube amp ever! Burning the tubes in now with a 10 hour YouTube version of xx's Intro (makes it easy to keep track of progress).

Had a few questions about this:

When installing the tubes, were they supposed to "snap" in? When I installed them, I kind of just inserted until it felt like it wouldn't go in further fearing I might break them or something.

What is this mod I'm hearing about to improve it drastically? I assume it's more involved than inserting a different set of tubes given people's concerns about the warranty.


----------



## LCMusicLover

malocadi said:


> Proud new owner of the LP and my first tube amp ever! ...


Welcome!

To be clear, LP is a tube-hybrid, not a full tube amp. As a result, you shouldn’t expect the kind of massive changes with tube swaps like folks mention with other amps.


> ...When installing the tubes, were they supposed to "snap" in? When I installed them, I kind of just inserted until it felt like it wouldn't go in further fearing I might break them or something...


That’s right — there’s no ‘snap’. Just push until they stop. There are lots of pics showing fully inserted tube (in this thread and elsewhere).


malocadi said:


> ...What is this mod I'm hearing about to improve it drastically? I assume it's more involved than inserting a different set of tubes given people's concerns about the warranty


Definitely not like tube swapping. The mod involves opening the case and replacing capacitors with beefier/higher quality ones. And will absolutely invalidate your warranty.

I would recommend getting to know the amp, and trying some tube rolls before you consider the mod.


----------



## deuter

The Liquid Gold is not far away now, who here is going to get one?


----------



## Marlowe

deuter said:


> The Liquid Gold is not far away now, who here is going to get one?


You mean the Liquid Gold whose availability has regularly been pushed back a month every month or so since November of last year? That Liquid Gold? (It's now "scheduled" for late August, though I expect some time between now and then it will be scheduled for September. Unless you have some information the rest of us are not privy to.)


----------



## Shane D

I don't have any interest in the Gold, but I am Very curious about the Platinum DAC.


----------



## deuter

Shane D said:


> I don't have any interest in the Gold, but I am Very curious about the Platinum DAC.


The LAU will have a DAC built in if that's what you fancy.


----------



## ksorota

Shane D said:


> I don't have any interest in the Gold, but I am Very curious about the Platinum DAC.


Interesting... had not seen that one!


----------



## Rattle

Wish the gold didn't have a DAC built in...


----------



## deuter

Rattle said:


> Wish the gold didn't have a DAC built in...


Yes, will be paying for something that we don't need.
It would have been nice if they could have put that money into a nicer chassis.


----------



## Shane D

deuter said:


> The LAU will have a DAC built in if that's what you fancy.



I am not sure what the LAU is, but I prefer my DAC's separate.


----------



## Zachik

deuter said:


> Yes, will be paying for something that we don't need.


Exactly!!! weird decision, but then again sometimes it feels Monoprice is a little disconnected from their potential audiophile customers!


----------



## deuter

Shane D said:


> I am not sure what the LAU is, but I prefer my DAC's separate.


LAU is Liquid Gold Headphone Amp by Cavalli


----------



## ra990 (Jul 19, 2020)

The liquid gold will have a built in AKM 4493 balanced dac. There will also be a standalone liquid platinum AKM 4499 balanced standalone dac. Both of these products were slated to be released months ago, but keep getting delayed. Not sure when they'll actually come out, but I'm very interested in the liquid platinum standalone DAC as well. The liquid gold amp is a fully solid state amp, but early impressions have put it ahead of the liquid platinum, so it might make a really good all-in-one solution, especially because the built-in dac has been optimized for the amp.

@runeight any updated you can provide on either of these products?


----------



## Tex Irie (Jul 20, 2020)

I've never owned a tube amp but I've been following this thread for most of the day.  Just out of curiosity, has anyone paired the Liquid Platinum with the TEAC UD-505?  Also, is there a particular 6922 type tube that can be described as neutral with a bit of warmth?  Lastly,  Is there a preferred tube seller the community recommends?


----------



## Marlowe

deuter said:


> The LAU will have a DAC built in if that's what you fancy.


But not the same quality of DAC. The LP DAC (also oft delayed) is using the 4499, AKM's current flagship chip. This is the same chip used in the Topping D90; I believe the LP DAC woud be the cheapest DAC available with that chip. The Liquid Gold is using an older and lesser, though still quite capable, AKM 4493. In the LauX thread. Dr. Cavalli noted that the DAC could be included there since that amp has room for a DAC board; because of the tubes, the LP does not. However, since most people interested in a LauX probably already have a DAC at least as good or better than the included DAC, forcing them to pay for something ($100?) they neither need or want does not appear to be a great idea.


----------



## ksorota

The LP DAC is somewhat interesting to me.  I am currently trying to decide if I am a bigger fan of the Soekris 1321 or the Bifrost MB1 w/unison.  I can tell you its hard to decide which I prefer.  I had the original 4490 Bifrost and really liked it, I think it might be time to try delta sigma again!


----------



## ra990

ksorota said:


> The LP DAC is somewhat interesting to me.  I am currently trying to decide if I am a bigger fan of the Soekris 1321 or the Bifrost MB1 w/unison.  I can tell you its hard to decide which I prefer.  I had the original 4490 Bifrost and really liked it, I think it might be time to try delta sigma again!


I've heard the AKM4499 on the Topping D90 and although it was hyper detailed, I found it to be cold and analytical as well. I'm hoping Cavalli's take on that chip will carry a bit of his preferred sound signature. No doubt, it's a very capable DAC chip and with the right implementation, it can probably be made to sound heavenly. I've been waiting patiently for this DAC as well in hopes that it will finally dethrone my Qutest. I want to go balanced.


----------



## Skooks

I disagree with your thinking that the *Topping D90 AKM4499 DAC* is "cold and analytical." What amp are you pairing with it and what headphones are you driving? It's the whole system that makes the sound.  I have the D90 with the *Cavalli Liquid Platinum Hybrid Tube Amp* driving *Hifiman Arya Headphones*... and the sound is outstanding... detailed, excellent definition, warm mids, dynamic lows, and wide soundstage when the recorded music allows out of head presentation. Also, tubes used in the LP Amp make a difference... so far my favorites are the *Telefunken E88CC*. And, also, don't forget cables make a difference.
In my 11 years of headphone systems, I've had systems that have cost much more than my present system... but trying to remember the sounds, I've not had a system more enjoyable than this one. It makes me put those speakers over my ears and listen and listen... addictive sound!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Was wondering if you had a chance to read the LP thread Skooks, regarding the Silmic ii cap mod? Really elevates the LP even further. 


Skooks said:


> I disagree with your thinking that the *Topping D90 AKM4499 DAC* is "cold and analytical." What amp are you pairing with it and what headphones are you driving? It's the whole system that makes the sound.  I have the D90 with the *Cavalli Liquid Platinum Hybrid Tube Amp* driving *Hifiman Arya Headphones*... and the sound is outstanding... detailed, excellent definition, warm mids, dynamic lows, and wide soundstage when the recorded music allows out of head presentation. Also, tubes used in the LP Amp make a difference... so far my favorites are the *Telefunken E88CC*. And, also, don't forget cables make a difference.
> In my 11 years of headphone systems, I've had systems that have cost much more than my present system... but trying to remember the sounds, I've not had a system more enjoyable than this one. It makes me put those speakers over my ears and listen and listen... addictive sound!


----------



## Skooks

I have not heard of that mod before now.  Can you give me a URL to go to... I would certainly go for it!  Thanks... Skooks


----------



## ra990

Skooks said:


> I disagree with your thinking that the *Topping D90 AKM4499 DAC* is "cold and analytical." What amp are you pairing with it and what headphones are you driving?



This was my impression with a D90 MQA and A90 amp driving the Aeon 2 and HD6XX. They sounded so bright and piercing that I just couldn't use it. When I acquired another Qutest, I tried it with the A90 and it was so much better, I had no doubt it was the DAC that was the source of the brightness. That was just my experience, and for all you know, it could have been a faulty unit.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Post# 2875 is where it started. I was the guinea pig lol.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monoprice-monolith-liquid-platinum-by-alex-cavalli.876406/page-192



Skooks said:


> I have not heard of that mod before now.  Can you give me a URL to go to... I would certainly go for it!  Thanks... Skooks


----------



## Skooks

I've sent the modder a PM to see how much and when he can make the cap mod... so far I haven't heard back from him.

Thanks for putting me onto the mod.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Don't worry my friend. He'll definitely get back to you. He's a great person to deal with! 


Skooks said:


> I've sent the modder a PM to see how much and when he can make the cap mod... so far I haven't heard back from him.
> 
> Thanks for putting me onto the mod.


----------



## Currawong

ksorota said:


> Thanks to @Guidostrunk and @Slim1970 for providing their amps for the "investigatory" process of upgrading the Caps and then for providing feedback and positive words.  I admit I was a bit skeptical that it would make a big difference and I am glad that their experience has echoed mine with the LP.  Prior to trying this upgrade, as Guidostrunk stated, I had upgraded a few GLMK2s with very positive results.  The LP was a bit different and required a bit more time to complete, but the change from the stock state to the "modified" state was shocking.
> 
> My first experience with the LP was with Guidostrunks with upgrade 7730 tubes...and it sounded nice but also distorted like crazy at moderately low volume levels.  With the stock tubes provided with Slim1970's LP I was not overly impressed, especially not with the Ether C Flow's.
> 
> ...



Nice! I've been contemplating getting one of these amps. What exact capacitor did you use as the replacement?


----------



## ksorota

Currawong said:


> Nice! I've been contemplating getting one of these amps. What exact capacitor did you use as the replacement?



I replaced all capacitors but one for Elna Silmic II brand capacitors of the following specs:
3- 470uf by 63v
2- 10uf by 25v
1- 100uf by 25v

The last capacitor does not have an Elna analog, so I left it in place.  It is a nichigon branded cap, so certainly no slouch in the audio dept.  

Have fun with the mod, its really a great upgrade and really makes the LP sing!


----------



## deuter

ksorota said:


> I replaced all capacitors but one for Elna Silmic II brand capacitors of the following specs:
> 3- 470uf by 63v
> 2- 10uf by 25v
> 1- 100uf by 25v
> ...


Not that the LP is any bad to start with, I rate it higher to amps costing 3-5 K retail.


----------



## Slim1970

deuter said:


> Not that the LP is any bad to start with, I rate it higher to amps costing 3-5 K retail.


Sound quality wise, I can agree with this statement.


----------



## Skooks

I've heard back and have sent my LP to him... he will have it Tuesday... and he says he will have it back to me by the end of the week.

Thanks again for putting me onto this mod... I'm looking forward to it!


----------



## Skooks

This caps mod by Keith makes a good Liquid Platinum amp an *outstanding* amp... one that just draws me into all my FLAC/AIFF files stored on an external SSD connected to a 2018 Apple Mac mini 3.2 GHz 6-Core Intel Core i7 with the Audirvana music app.  It's hard to take my Aryas off my head... it is compelling music!!

Just think... I purchased this Cavalli Liquid Platinum Tube Hybrid Headphone Amp new for $700... paid $30 for shipping it to Keith in MA... and then he did the mod for $150 including shipping back... so I now have $880 invested in my headphone amp plus whatever tubes I roll with... and I have music that makes me listen into the midnight hours... it's that good!  And, the excellent Topping D90 DAC I purchased new... another $700. So, for just about $1580 I have a combination that will drive just about any headphones made.  This combo makes the Hifiman Aryas really sing!! Best headphone system I've ever had or heard!  Total enjoyment!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wow. Cheap LP up for grabs.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monolith-cavalli-liquid-platinum.938987/


----------



## Skooks

I can't believe it will last longer than 30 minutes at that price!!  Does he really realize what he's missing?!!?


----------



## wormsdriver

Guidostrunk said:


> Wow. Cheap LP up for grabs.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monolith-cavalli-liquid-platinum.938987/


Thanks @Guidostrunk!
I was on the fence this morning when he had it listed @ $450. @$399 I just had to pull the trigger!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Such a shame that how many people have sold theirs before reading this thread about the mod. Lol


Skooks said:


> I can't believe it will last longer than 30 minutes at that price!!  Does he really realize what he's missing?!!?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Awesome bro! Did you currently have one or is this your first LP? 


wormsdriver said:


> Thanks @Guidostrunk!
> I was on the fence this morning when he had it listed @ $450. @$399 I just had to pull the trigger!


----------



## wormsdriver

Guidostrunk said:


> Awesome bro! Did you currently have one or is this your first LP?


first one! 
I had always been on the fence because of the "high gain" issue and I also wanted to move away from amps that need to be used on balanced output to really take advantage of it but here I am. Lol
Debating whether to contact @ksorota and have the amp sent to him directly or Diy to save some coins...
anybody has any tips for Diy'ers on swapping the caps?


----------



## ksorota

wormsdriver said:


> first one!
> I had always been on the fence because of the "high gain" issue and I also wanted to move away from amps that need to be used on balanced output to really take advantage of it but here I am. Lol
> Debating whether to contact @ksorota and have the amp sent to him directly or Diy to save some coins...
> anybody has any tips for Diy'ers on swapping the caps?


Pm me for info!


----------



## Skooks

For what Keith aka @ksorota is charging for the caps mod... $150 including shipped back... anybody would be really missing out!  Keith takes a good amp and makes it a really good... or, in my opinion, a great amp!  When you get it back, then you need to get a good set of tubes.


----------



## Guidostrunk

You just need a pair of these. 
https://www.tubemonger.com/12Axx_to...IB_1960s_p/12axx-ecc88-adap-novib-mcmurdo.htm

The 12au7 tubes are far more superior imo. And are way more reasonable in price than 6922 counterparts.


----------



## ksorota

Agreed, I do not think I am going to go back to 6922...too many good 12AU7's to try out. Wes S on the tube rollers thread will help you drain your wallet though


----------



## mat.1

Guidostrunk said:


> You just need a pair of these.
> https://www.tubemonger.com/12Axx_to...IB_1960s_p/12axx-ecc88-adap-novib-mcmurdo.htm
> 
> The 12au7 tubes are far more superior imo. And are way more reasonable in price than 6922 counterparts.


If i am buying this adapter from tubemonger , any recommendation tube from tubemonger web ?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Apparently they're going to be selling the Brimar cv4034 in August. I'm waiting for the update myself. Lol


mat.1 said:


> If i am buying this adapter from tubemonger , any recommendation tube from tubemonger web ?


----------



## raphaelchan (Aug 3, 2020)

You guys are dangerous. Seriously thinking I should unsubscribed  this thread at least till i fix the damage in the bank account lol. Kidding aside would 
 using 12AU7 void the warranty? Thanks


----------



## nwavesailor

wormsdriver said:


> first one!
> I had always been on the fence because of the "high gain" issue and I also wanted to move away from amps that need to be used on balanced output to really take advantage of it but here I am. Lol
> Debating whether to contact @ksorota and have the amp sent to him directly or Diy to save some coins...
> anybody has any tips for Diy'ers on swapping the caps?


If you don't have a desoldering station I don't think I'd go the DIY route. The PCB has a pretty heavy ground plane and the caps take a bit to remove cleanly. If you are patient I suppose with a solder sucker and wick you could remove the caps but do you really want to potentially trash the board? It's a very reasonable cost mod.


----------



## Wes S (Aug 3, 2020)

raphaelchan said:


> You guys are dangerous. Seriously thinking I should unsubscribed  this thread at least till i fix the damage in the bank account lol. Kidding aside would
> using 12AU7 void the warranty? Thanks


Well then definitely don't check this thread out.  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monoprice-liquid-platinum-tube-rollers.898852/ 

As far as warranty, I bet if you have issues and send the unit back in without the tubes in it, they will have no idea you used 12au7's, so I wouldn't worry about it.


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> Apparently they're going to be selling the Brimar cv4034 in August. I'm waiting for the update myself. Lol


The cats out of the bag!  I would seriously jump on these when they become available, and I will be buying another set for backup, as they are "Top Tier" tubes, no doubt.


----------



## Zachik

Wes S said:


> The cats out of the bag!  I would seriously jump on these when they become available, and I will be buying another set for backup, as they are "Top Tier" tubes, no doubt.


How much $ were they last time around?


----------



## Guidostrunk

I believe they were $80 per tube.


Zachik said:


> How much $ were they last time around?


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> I believe they were $80 per tube.


That's how much I paid for mine, and that's a steal for a tube that can hang with some of the big boy NOS tubes costing much more.


----------



## raphaelchan

Wes S said:


> Well then definitely don't check this thread out.  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monoprice-liquid-platinum-tube-rollers.898852/


 and just saw this https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=304&cp_id=30405&cs_id=3040505&p_id=38966&seq=1&format=2&res=1


----------



## Marlowe

raphaelchan said:


> and just saw this https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=304&cp_id=30405&cs_id=3040505&p_id=38966&seq=1&format=2&res=1


You do realize that the 10/2 "availability date" now makes this DAC roughly eleven months behind the original announced date? And undoubtedly counting. We'll probably have lossless nanotech DACs (and other goodies) installed in our heads at birth before we see this DAC.


----------



## raphaelchan

Marlowe said:


> You do realize that the 10/2 "availability date" now makes this DAC roughly eleven months behind the original announced date? And undoubtedly counting. We'll probably have lossless nanotech DACs (and other goodies) installed in our heads at birth before we see this DAC.


Im more optimistic since most of the specs are listed. The price is right for all the features I need. If it comes out 10/2, i will be all over it. If not, I’m hoping Aeolus will come in at that time and keep me occupy for a long time.


----------



## dumpsterfire

I’ve got a new LP on the way to me now. I was always interested in the amp, being a fan of Cavalli for a long time, but the current sale price and word that the gain had been lowered on newer revisions sealed it for me.  I’m heartened by the reports of the cap mod improvements and will no doubt get that done in the future.


----------



## ra990

raphaelchan said:


> Im more optimistic since most of the specs are listed. The price is right for all the features I need. If it comes out 10/2, i will be all over it. If not, I’m hoping Aeolus will come in at that time and keep me occupy for a long time.


A lot of AKM4499 DACs will be out by the time it gets released. I'd like to get the Liquid Gold Amp/DAC as an all-in-one for my bedroom. But, seriously - I have no faith in the current date OR if we'll even see these products this year.


----------



## Marlowe (Aug 4, 2020)

raphaelchan said:


> Im more optimistic since most of the specs are listed. The price is right for all the features I need. If it comes out 10/2, i will be all over it. If not, I’m hoping Aeolus will come in at that time and keep me occupy for a long time.


I got the Aeolus right at the end of June after a six-week wait. It's wonderful and worth the wait. However, as much as I respect Dr. Cavalli (in addition to the LP, I have the very good Drop CTH, though not using it ATM), if this DAC is available on 10/2, I'm the Tsar of all the Russias.

More seriously, since I was planning on a new DAC in early June, I was very interested in the LP DAC when I became aware of it roughly six months ago. However, I gave up on it as the ship date regularly slipped. I got the AKM 4499 Topping D90 MQA (my music listening is almost exclusively from Tidal) on sale in mid-June after choosing between it, the SMSL M400, Gustard A18, and non-4499 Denafrips Ares II. (I might well have gotten the Schiit Bifrost 2, but it was also long unavailable at the time and I was impatient. It is shipping now). Granted, all these DACs are somewhat more expensive than the Monoprice, though the Gustard only by $60. If you are in a position to wait, by all means wait for the LP DAC. If you want a DAC nowish, these are all good alternatives if within your budget.


----------



## dumpsterfire (Aug 6, 2020)

Received my LP yesterday and listened to it at night after burning it in during the day. I recognize the tubes need around 100 hours to settle but I was very impressed regardless. My main amp has been a Lyr 3 for about a year and a half, and I do think the Lyr is excellent. It’s neutral, precise, detailed, layers decently and is slightly holographic with the new production Tung-Sol tube.

At first it was difficult to discern the differences between the two amps. The LP is also mostly neutral, detailed, layers well and somewhat holographic. Eventually the differences became clear. The LP has a slower decay, and the trail on notes contributes to a romantic sound that is addictive. The mids display that famous Cavalli magic, with guitars and vocals particularly highlighted for me. Both the Lyr and the LP are hybrids, and I can hear the hybrid aspects of both, but to simplify it, the Lyr sounds more SS with sharper attacks and faster decay, and the LP sounds more tube with slower decay and a richer midrange. The LP sounds further back from the stage, the Lyr closer up, but both layer very well. Right now the Lyr has more sense of air around instruments/performers but I won’t be able to ascertain the LP’s full ability there until it’s more burned in.

The LP is a hell of a deal at the current $549 sale price. I’m so glad to be owning a Cavalli amp again and I’m excited to do more listening.


----------



## Wes S (Aug 6, 2020)

dumpsterfire said:


> Received my LP yesterday and listened to it at night after burning it in during the day. I recognize the tubes need around 100 hours to settle but I was very impressed regardless. My main amp has been a Lyr 3 for about a year and a half, and I do think the Lyr is excellent. It’s neutral, precise, detailed, layers decently and is slightly holographic with the new production Tung-Sol tube.
> 
> At first it was difficult to discern the differences between the two amps. The LP is also mostly neutral, detailed, layers well and somewhat holographic. Eventually the differences became clear. The LP has a slower decay, and the trail on notes contributes to a romantic sound that is addictive. The mids display that famous Cavalli magic, with guitars and vocals particularly highlighted for me. Both the Lyr and the LP are hybrids, and I can hear the hybrid aspects of both, but to simplify it, the Lyr sounds more SS with sharper attacks and faster decay, and the LP sounds more tube with slower decay and a richer midrange. The LP sounds further back from the stage, the Lyr closer up, but both layer very well. Right now the Lyr has more sense of air around instruments/performers but I won’t be able to ascertain the LP’s full ability there until it’s more burned in.
> 
> The LP is a hell of a deal at the current $549 sale price. I’m so glad to be owning a Cavalli amp again and I’m excited to do more listening.


Interesting!  I made the same jump from Lyr 3 to LP, and owned them both for a little while.  However, I sold the Lyr 3 and kept the LP, and had the total opposite experience.  I thought the Lyr 3 sounded soft and distant with not the most lifelike tonality, compared to the forward, clear and very lifelike tonality of the LP.  Just goes to show, even if we hear it differently, we both can enjoy the LP.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Spend some time with the LP and consider the cap mod in the future. Welcome to the LP club. 
 


dumpsterfire said:


> Received my LP yesterday and listened to it at night after burning it in during the day. I recognize the tubes need around 100 hours to settle but I was very impressed regardless. My main amp has been a Lyr 3 for about a year and a half, and I do think the Lyr is excellent. It’s neutral, precise, detailed, layers decently and is slightly holographic with the new production Tung-Sol tube.
> 
> At first it was difficult to discern the differences between the two amps. The LP is also mostly neutral, detailed, layers well and somewhat holographic. Eventually the differences became clear. The LP has a slower decay, and the trail on notes contributes to a romantic sound that is addictive. The mids display that famous Cavalli magic, with guitars and vocals particularly highlighted for me. Both the Lyr and the LP are hybrids, and I can hear the hybrid aspects of both, but to simplify it, the Lyr sounds more SS with sharper attacks and faster decay, and the LP sounds more tube with slower decay and a richer midrange. The LP sounds further back from the stage, the Lyr closer up, but both layer very well. Right now the Lyr has more sense of air around instruments/performers but I won’t be able to ascertain the LP’s full ability there until it’s more burned in.
> 
> The LP is a hell of a deal at the current $549 sale price. I’m so glad to be owning a Cavalli amp again and I’m excited to do more listening.


----------



## dumpsterfire

Wes S said:


> Interesting!  I made the same jump from Lyr 3 to LP, and owned them both for a little while.  However, I sold the Lyr 3 and kept the LP, and had the total opposite experience.  I thought the Lyr 3 sounded soft and distant with not the most lifelike tonality, compared to the forward, clear and very lifelike tonality of the LP.  Just goes to show, even if we hear it differently, we both can enjoy the LP.



Really! Soft and distant are two descriptors I would never use for the Lyr. I wonder if it was suboptimal system synergy?


----------



## 340519

I just got this guy yesterday. Anyone have the thread link for it? The Cavalli hybrid.


----------



## Guidostrunk

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mas...hybrid-amp-cth-dropping-monday.857673/page-85


dmdm said:


> I just got this guy yesterday. Anyone have the thread link for it? The Cavalli hybrid.


----------



## Wes S

dumpsterfire said:


> Really! Soft and distant are two descriptors I would never use for the Lyr. I wonder if it was suboptimal system synergy?


I think it was probably the tubes I was using, now that I think about. So, you are definitely right about the synergy.   

Welcome to the club man!  That's, what I should said in my first post.  Also, I highly recommend looking back of few pages about the cap mod like @Guidostrunk mentioned, it really does take the amp to another level.


----------



## dumpsterfire

Wes S said:


> I think it was probably the tubes I was using, now that I think about. So, you are definitely right about the synergy.
> 
> Welcome to the club man!  That's, what I should said in my first post.  Also, I highly recommend looking back of few pages about the cap mod like @Guidostrunk mentioned, it really does take the amp to another level.



Thanks! I believe I am going to get the chance to hear a cap modded unit and compare it against my stock unit so I can determine if I prefer the changes or not. Meanwhile, this amp is addicting enough that I've moved it into my office rig for the day because I don't want to be away from it, haha.


----------



## 340519

Guidostrunk said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mas...hybrid-amp-cth-dropping-monday.857673/page-85


Olay so I had the right one. It just seems dead for a great amp.


----------



## Wes S

dumpsterfire said:


> Thanks! I believe I am going to get the chance to hear a cap modded unit and compare it against my stock unit so I can determine if I prefer the changes or not. Meanwhile, this amp is addicting enough that I've moved it into my office rig for the day because I don't want to be away from it, haha.


That's awesome!  I remember how addicting the LP was when I first got it.  It was a revelation for me, and the same thing is happening again now that I had the cap mod done.  I look forward to hearing your thoughts, comparing them side by side.

Happy Listening!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Most gave up on it without ever investing in an external LPS, or rolling tubes. It's a fantastic amp with those upgrades. The nice thing about the MCTH is it's one tube. Also you can roll in the 12au7 as well as the 12at7 tubes with the proper adapter. 
I actually still have my MCTH sitting in a drawer with an Acopian LPS. Since acquiring the LP I haven't used it. 
If I was being honest. I'd say that the MCTH with some good 12au7 and the Acopian LPS can go toe to toe with the Headamp GLmk2. Just my consensus lol. 


dmdm said:


> Olay so I had the right one. It just seems dead for a great amp.


----------



## 340519 (Aug 6, 2020)

Guidostrunk said:


> Most gave up on it without ever investing in an external LPS, or rolling tubes. It's a fantastic amp with those upgrades. The nice thing about the MCTH is it's one tube. Also you can roll in the 12au7 as well as the 12at7 tubes with the proper adapter.
> I actually still have my MCTH sitting in a drawer with an Acopian LPS. Since acquiring the LP I haven't used it.
> If I was being honest. I'd say that the MCTH with some good 12au7 and the Acopian LPS can go toe to toe with the Headamp GLmk2. Just my consensus lol.


I think it sounds great out of the box. The only thing I added is the gold lion tube. And I have some decent gear.


----------



## Zachik

dmdm said:


> I think it sounds great out of the box. The only thing I added is the gold lion tube. And I have some decent gear.


I agree CTH is a great amp. But... once you try something better (like LP) - it is hard to go back!


----------



## mat.1

Please recommend me tubes from tubemonger to buy for this amp.


----------



## Tex Irie (Aug 18, 2020)

Has anyone compared the xDuoo TA-20 to the Cavalli Liquid Platinum? I would really love to know if one is "better" than the other in terms of Soundstage, clarity, detail retrieval, musicality (PRaT) , coloration (slight warmth).


----------



## hikaru12

Just got my LP in today and boy is this thing fun to roll tubes in. I’m using some 74 Silver Shields and some Vokshod Rockets 77s and they’re great. They make me almost want to keep my Aryas. The detail I get is amazing and I overall enjoying this amp over the brighter MJ2 (couldn’t stand the Aryas on that amp)

Definitely interested in the cap mod and will probably bite this week. If it further smooths out the Aryas peaky treble that’ll be even better.


----------



## wormsdriver

I received my LP yesterday (USPS delivers on Sunday!?) and was listening to it last night.
I have Grado ps1000, Hd800 and ZMF Eikon. I spent an hour maybe with the Grado then the rest of the time with the Eikon since I've been on the fence about selling it.
It only came with stock pair of tubes and another pair of tubes. So far I haven't heard the stock tubes so I'll listen to those tonight.
I wanted to hear the LP stock for at least a week before doing the cap mod. So far I wasn't super impressed but that doesn't really mean anything since there's been lots of gear that I wasn't impressed by at first listen then ended up really appreciating it after a bit more listening.
I'm looking forward to tonight and eventually listening to it with different caps.


----------



## Voxata

Nice price drop today, $484 on Monoprice brand new!


----------



## sahmen

Voxata said:


> Nice price drop today, $484 on Monoprice brand new!


Yes, that makes my trigger finger very itchy, although I already have an LP.  I need someone to help me dissuade myself from pulling the trigger now, especially since the Liquid Gold will also be a strong contender for my wallet's attention when it is released... Still at $799, the LP was already an unbeatable smoking deal for what it can do... But for under $500, I dare anyone to come out and say out loud, which other amp in existence can compete for the price, from the viewpoint of the sound quality that the LP can deliver...

Maybe, if such a competing amp really exists, that would help to calm me down and reduce the itch on my finger.  Mind you, I am not speaking of build quality, but sound quality...


----------



## sennfan83261 (Aug 14, 2020)

Bastards, I just bought one. I couldn't resist at that price. The reason why I was hesitant at first was due to my purchase of the CTH a few weeks ago (of which I am loving with my HD800S and HD6XX) and the need for matching tubes if I decide to tube roll a little bit.

I am curious how well it will handle my planar stable (my HE-6 excepted of course).


----------



## ruinedx

Color me impressed. Got it for $484.

Stock tubes, not even burned in yet. Amazing synergy with the Musical Fidelity MX DAC + HD820.


----------



## Voxata (Aug 15, 2020)

CreditingKarma said:


> It is strange to me there is not an imbalance really until that point and then there is a large jump in volume output and an imbalance until about 11 o'clock. The replacement will be here tomorrow. I am happy that I bought this through amazon though much easier to get it replaced. If I have the same issue I might need to just try and go with the pro Ican. I have heard many people that prefer the CLP over the ican though. I don't get my Onyx until monday and I will be out of town for the week. I can't wait to see how they do together.



Can confirm, this is STILL a problem with pots. This is absolutely ridiculous to allow these out of the factory. I purchased a newer amp second hand that had a huge 4-5db volume difference between 9-10+ o'clock. Worst pot variance I've ever seen on an amp. Purchased a new amp at $484 and here we are, same spike but far less bad at 1.5-2db difference in this range with a big volume increase (bump) at 10 oclock. Still out of balance until almost 12. I'm guessing the pot channel matching is all over the place. I recommend checking your amps with a dB meter using pink noise or sine, however this was easy to identify by ear as well.


----------



## Slade01

Voxata said:


> Can confirm, this is STILL a problem with pots. This is absolutely ridiculous to allow these out of the factory. I purchased a newer amp second hand that had a huge 4-5db volume difference between 9-10+ o'clock. Worst pot variance I've ever seen on an amp. Purchased a new amp at $484 and here we are, same spike but far less bad at 1.5-2db difference in this range with a big volume increase (bump) at 10 oclock. Still out of balance until almost 12. I'm guessing the pot channel matching is all over the place. I recommend checking your amps with a dB meter using pink noise or sine, however this was easy to identify by ear as well.



Is it easy or difficult to replace/upgrade the pot?


----------



## ksorota

Slade01 said:


> Is it easy or difficult to replace/upgrade the pot?



I can tell you from experience that it is not easy... more to share in the near future!


----------



## ruinedx

sahmen said:


> Yes, that makes my trigger finger very itchy, although I already have an LP.  I need someone to help me dissuade myself from pulling the trigger now, especially since the Liquid Gold will also be a strong contender for my wallet's attention when it is released... Still at $799, the LP was already an unbeatable smoking deal for what it can do... But for under $500, I dare anyone to come out and say out loud, which other amp in existence can compete for the price, from the viewpoint of the sound quality that the LP can deliver...
> 
> Maybe, if such a competing amp really exists, that would help to calm me down and reduce the itch on my finger.  Mind you, I am not speaking of build quality, but sound quality...


You should buy it , the LP and LG are going to sound different not necessarily one better than the other as they are voiced differently. The built in DAC on the gold is kind of goofy too unless you don't have a better one


----------



## LCMusicLover

Voxata said:


> Can confirm, this is STILL a problem with pots. This is absolutely ridiculous to allow these out of the factory. I purchased a newer amp second hand that had a huge 4-5db volume difference between 9-10+ o'clock. Worst pot variance I've ever seen on an amp. Purchased a new amp at $484 and here we are, same spike but far less bad at 1.5-2db difference in this range with a big volume increase (bump) at 10 oclock. Still out of balance until almost 12. I'm guessing the pot channel matching is all over the place. I recommend checking your amps with a dB meter using pink noise or sine, however this was easy to identify by ear as well.


Sorry man, that sucks.
I guess I’m just lucky. My first had an ‘easy to notice by ear’ imbalance ‘til 8:30 - 9:00 or so — really affected my enjoyment of this amp with Utopia. But my next two (long story), including the one I have now, didn’t/don’t exhibit any ‘audible by ear’ imbalance. I have not tried to use measurement equipment, so I can’t say ‘no imbalance’ — just no ‘audible imbalance’.

I’d guess that we’re the victims of poor QA on the part of a supplier and that Monoprice doesn’t test the components they receive — just slaps them in. So, unit-to-unit variability. Bummer!


----------



## Voxata

Glad you got it sorted out. Pot replacement would be tricky as the pot uses a mounting board with a non standard layout so you'd need to get creative with mounting to pull it off. Also I am unable to identify the pot resistance so I'd need more info on it to attempt a swap. Honestly, not worth it if you've got a unit with a good one.


----------



## ruinedx

I have no issues with the calibration of the pot in my new unit


----------



## LCMusicLover

ruinedx said:


> I have no issues with the calibration of the pot in my new unit


Yes, it seems to vary by unit.


----------



## ruinedx (Aug 15, 2020)

LCMusicLover said:


> Yes, it seems to vary by unit.



Would love to see a premium build quality of this for $1299 in the same form factor and I/O. Sort of like a Liquid Crimson v2, with balanced input and smaller size from the original LC.


----------



## Guidostrunk

There's someone who has already swapped out the stock pot. He mentioned it a few posts back. Maybe shoot him a pm for details.


Voxata said:


> Glad you got it sorted out. Pot replacement would be tricky as the pot uses a mounting board with a non standard layout so you'd need to get creative with mounting to pull it off. Also I am unable to identify the pot resistance so I'd need more info on it to attempt a swap. Honestly, not worth it if you've got a unit with a good one.


----------



## Marlowe

ruinedx said:


> I have no issues with the calibration of the pot in my new unit


Ditto; I got mine in May when a discount code brought the price down to $500, which is virtually as insane as  $484. I usually am right around 10 o'clock (with the 300 ohm, just average sensitivity ZMF Aeolus), which one of the posters noted as a trouble spot. He also noted that imbalance persisted to around noon--I can't imagine many headphones can be played at noon on the LP without quickly bursting the listener's eardrums.


----------



## Zachik

ksorota said:


> I can tell you from experience that it is not easy... more to share in the near future!


You are such a tease!  
I will wait for your notes on the pot upgrade...


----------



## LCMusicLover

Marlowe said:


> Ditto; I got mine in May when a discount code brought the price down to $500, which is virtually as insane as  $484. I usually am right around 10 o'clock (with the 300 ohm, just average sensitivity ZMF Aeolus), which one of the posters noted as a trouble spot. He also noted that imbalance persisted to around noon--I can't imagine many headphones can be played at noon on the LP without quickly bursting the listener's eardrums.


There is some suggestion that the gain has been reduced by some un-announced running Chang. I have no idea if it’s true.

But I agree with you regarding straight up on the volume pot. I run that way, but I’mattenuating between 25 and 35 dB on my passive preamp, depending on which cans and which tracks.

The only time I got above 10:00 o’clock-ish was when I was trying out HE-6se.


----------



## sahmen

So one thing that is not clear to me : Has anyone reported this irregular volume pot calibration defect to Monoprice, and if so, do they replace the defective unit if you ask them to?


----------



## LCMusicLover

sahmen said:


> So one thing that is not clear to me : Has anyone reported this irregular volume pot calibration defect to Monoprice, and if so, do they replace the defective unit if you ask them to?


I believe there were some replacements early on. And @runeight has posted about it, so they definitely know.


----------



## Voxata

LCMusicLover said:


> I believe there were some replacements early on. And @runeight has posted about it, so they definitely know.



My unit is brand new from the 484 sale with this issue. Just arrived today  They have a 30 day guarantee so, I'd assume so. I have to attenuate my source WAY down to enjoy the LP.


----------



## LCMusicLover (Aug 16, 2020)

Voxata said:


> My unit is brand new from the 484 sale with this issue. Just arrived today  They have a 30 day guarantee so, I'd assume so. I have to attenuate my source WAY down to enjoy the LP.


I’d reach out —they should make it right w/ a replacement. Otherwise just return it — and try again?

BTW, the main reason I got my pre-amp is for remote volume control and source switching, although the ability to attenuate and have more useable range on the volume pot is nice. But with my current unit I don’t need to attenuate to avoid channel imbalance — and you shouldn’t either.


----------



## Marlowe

LCMusicLover said:


> There is some suggestion that the gain has been reduced by some un-announced running Chang. I have no idea if it’s true.
> 
> But I agree with you regarding straight up on the volume pot. I run that way, but I’mattenuating between 25 and 35 dB on my passive preamp, depending on which cans and which tracks.
> 
> The only time I got above 10:00 o’clock-ish was when I was trying out HE-6se.


I should have noted that I'm connecting to the LP via XLR from the Topping D90 in DAC mode, so the output is fixed at 4Vrms. If I connected via RCA (which would still allow use of the LP's balanced output), output would only be  2Vrms (common output for most DACs via RCA, I think) which should allow you to go higher on the pot. I haven't tried it so I can't say how much.


----------



## ra990

Marlowe said:


> I should have noted that I'm connecting to the LP via XLR from the Topping D90 in DAC mode, so the output is fixed at 4Vrms. If I connected via RCA (which would still allow use of the LP's balanced output), output would only be  2Vrms (common output for most DACs via RCA, I think) which should allow you to go higher on the pot. I haven't tried it so I can't say how much.


The LP converts SE to balanced, which causes the 2v to become 4v. Therefore, you won't notice any difference in input volume between 2v RCA input and 4v XLR. If you have the D90, you can simply lower the volume on it, it's one of the advantages it has. I switched my Qutest to 1v output with the LP, which allowed me to run between 12 and 2 on the volume pot with my A2Os.


----------



## ra990

Voxata said:


> My unit is brand new from the 484 sale with this issue. Just arrived today  They have a 30 day guarantee so, I'd assume so. I have to attenuate my source WAY down to enjoy the LP.


Third times the charm! Sorry you had such bad luck.


----------



## sahmen

Okay, I am sort of feeling weird about admitting this but I just caved and purchased one of the units (my second one) for use in my office. The weirdness arises from having other "adequate" amp options in the office already that are capable, but not as good as the LP (although the existing options could make the LP feel somewhat redundant or superfluous). On the other hand, my experience of the LP has convinced me with greater eloquence, that the $484 deal was too good to pass up under any sun, so the itchy trigger finger e eventually won the day.  I know what I am getting, pretty much, so as long as Monoprice does not surprise me by delivering a unit with a glitchy volume pot, I should be okay. As for that feeling of weirdness, I am sure I'll get over it soon... The glorious sound of the LP itself will help with that.


----------



## DowdyPrime

Could you guys recommend a test track for testing channel imbalance? My unit definitely has the volume bump between 8 & 10 o'clock (and, for now, I use low output on a chord mojo be able to use the 11-2 range). But I haven't heard a channel imbalance that bothered me. Of course, this may be my weak ears. So I'd like to focus harder, maybe with a track intended to discern channel differences. Any recommendations?


----------



## MLegend

DowdyPrime said:


> Could you guys recommend a test track for testing channel imbalance? My unit definitely has the volume bump between 8 & 10 o'clock (and, for now, I use low output on a chord mojo be able to use the 11-2 range). But I haven't heard a channel imbalance that bothered me. Of course, this may be my weak ears. So I'd like to focus harder, maybe with a track intended to discern channel differences. Any recommendations?


https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_stereo.php


----------



## hikaru12 (Aug 17, 2020)

Finally able to make my impressions of the cap mod. Luckily I am in the same state as Keith so the turnaround was literally overnight.

I’ll have to say at first I didn’t really care for this mod. I felt like it took away too much of the magic of the original LP which was a nice seductive warmth and bass for more mid and overall clarity but I was wrong. This thing now reacts to tubes like a tube amp. It’s so easy to pick apart differences in tubes even in the same family. I was able to detect changes from a more V shaped gain 77 Vokshod Rockets to 75 Rockets which is a nice more seductive laid back sound which is my preferred sound preference. Detail takes a nice back seat.

Imaging seems to have improved and the bass is slightly more focused. The biggest change the cap mod does is basically clarity and reactiveness to tubes. Treble also is smoother without losing much bite which allows you to turn the volume up quite a bit more. I went from 11 to 1 o clock on balanced! I dare not leave it there too long though.

I wouldn’t say this mod hits it out of the park or is a must have or considerably noticeable but it adds a nice bit of “aliveness” that some posters have spoken about in earlier posts. I still think I prefer the non modded LP due to the more relaxed veiled nature which had that to die for Cavali warmth but if you find a nice pair of tubes I feel like this would be amazing. I’ll reserve further judgement until I get some 12AU7 adapters.


----------



## ruinedx

Does anyone else's unit have a really tight XLR jack on the front? I have to hold the unit and yank the cable to get the headphone cable out.


----------



## Shane D (Aug 18, 2020)

ruinedx said:


> Does anyone else's unit have a really tight XLR jack on the front? I have to hold the unit and yank the cable to get the headphone cable out.



Yep! When I first got my Violectric amp, I whined about the size and the weight. But now I love the fact that I can push and pull on headphone jacks without having to the hold the amp. Unlike EVERY other amp I have owned.


----------



## sahmen

So I know this is a bit touchy here, but how did the debate about the aftermarket LPS for the LP end, if it did at all?  Has anyone ever this LPS 36 from China on ebay with the LP. and if you have, what are your impressions?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LPS-36-Low...-Liquid-Platinum-Cavalli-DC-36V-/132862087667


----------



## sennfan83261 (Aug 19, 2020)

CreditingKarma said:


> It is strange to me there is not an imbalance really until that point and then there is a large jump in volume output and an imbalance until about 11 o'clock. The replacement will be here tomorrow. I am happy that I bought this through amazon though much easier to get it replaced. If I have the same issue I might need to just try and go with the pro Ican. I have heard many people that prefer the CLP over the ican though. I don't get my Onyx until monday and I will be out of town for the week. I can't wait to see how they do together.


Yeah, that's how my brand new LP is out of the box. With the Arya's plugged into the balanced output, there's a huge jump in volume between 10 and 11 o'clock and some channel imbalance heard between that range while testing with a mono track. I have a passive pre on the way that I purchased for some other reason before purchasing the LP. I'm going to let the amp burn in for a few more days. If there's no improvement, back to Monoprice it goes. Sad, because my first impressions of the amp are quite favorable outside of the crappy volume pot issue. Despite its issue of developing into a scratchy pot like the THX AAA 789 (mine hasn't yet), the volume pot of the CTH ($175 right now) is still far better in its usability and tracking than the LP's pot.


----------



## LCMusicLover

sennfan83261 said:


> Yeah, that's how my brand new LP is out of the box. With the Arya's plugged into the balanced output, there's a huge jump in volume between 10 and 11 o'clock and some channel imbalance heard between that range while testing with a mono track. I have a passive pre on the way that I purchased for some other reason before purchasing the LP. I'm going to let the amp burn in for a few more days. If there's no improvement, back to Monoprice it goes. Sad, because my first impressions of the amp are quite favorable outside of the crappy volume pot issue. Despite its issue of developing into a scratchy pot like the THX AAA 789 (mine hasn't yet), the volume pot of the CTH ($175 right now) is still far better in its usability and tracking than the LP's pot.


This is absurd.  If (any of my) my pots had been like this I would never recommend this amp.  For me, the problem (with my first unit) was limited to very low volume, and tracking has been quite accurate otherwise (with all three of my units). 

I have this vision of bins of parts from various vendors showing up at some assembly location, with folks slapping things together and shoving them in boxes saying 'Well, some of these should work' (although probably not speaking English).


----------



## ruinedx (Aug 19, 2020)

LCMusicLover said:


> This is absurd.  If (any of my) my pots had been like this I would never recommend this amp.  For me, the problem (with my first unit) was limited to very low volume, and tracking has been quite accurate otherwise (with all three of my units).
> 
> I have this vision of bins of parts from various vendors showing up at some assembly location, with folks slapping things together and shoving them in boxes saying 'Well, some of these should work' (although probably not speaking English).


My first unit had a perfect pot but balanced jack was proving so tight it was unusable and damaging my XLR cables.  Hoping for the best with unit 2.  If it has major pot issues it's going back also. 

Despite QA issues it's the best I've heard under $1500 that has balanced in and small form factor


----------



## DowdyPrime

Might those of you with tracking issue post your serial numbers? Perhaps there's a problematic range? Or is this a fool's errand?
I received mine in mid-July. There is definitely a volume bump at 10-11. I think there is a small imbalance below that, but very slight, not something I can hear without mono test tracks.  The serial ends with 900325.


----------



## Voxata

sahmen said:


> So I know this is a bit touchy here, but how did the debate about the aftermarket LPS for the LP end, if it did at all?  Has anyone ever this LPS 36 from China on ebay with the LP. and if you have, what are your impressions?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/LPS-36-Low...-Liquid-Platinum-Cavalli-DC-36V-/132862087667


It was confirmed LPS can damage the unit, I'd avoid it.


----------



## Zachik

ksorota said:


> I can tell you from experience that it is not easy... more to share in the near future!


Well....... ???
Any update or info on the volume pot upgrade?  That is holding up my cap upgrade!


----------



## sahmen

Voxata said:


> It was confirmed LPS can damage the unit, I'd avoid it.



Yes that is what I thought, until I saw the LPS-36 as an LPS especially made for the LP. It seemed to me like quite a bold step given everything that has been discussed on these boards about aftermarket power supplies, and also given the repeated warnings from  @runeight about that particular subject.  I am obviously not jumping on it, but I am curious about the impressions of anyone who has.


----------



## ruinedx (Aug 19, 2020)

sahmen said:


> Yes that is what I thought, until I saw the LPS-36 as an LPS especially made for the LP. It seemed to me like quite a bold step given everything that has been discussed on these boards about aftermarket power supplies, and also given the repeated warnings from  @runeight about that particular subject.  I am obviously not jumping on it, but I am curious about the impressions of anyone who has.


When it destroys your LP you can send them an angry letter  that's about all you will be able to do when it happens

Not sure why you would trust some random shady company over the amp's designer?


----------



## sennfan83261 (Aug 19, 2020)

DowdyPrime said:


> Might those of you with tracking issue post your serial numbers? Perhaps there's a problematic range? Or is this a fool's errand?
> I received mine in mid-July. There is definitely a volume bump at 10-11. I think there is a small imbalance below that, but very slight, not something I can hear without mono test tracks.  The serial ends with 900325.


Mine is 900396. Linear tracking on mine after a few hours out of the box is non-existent between 8-10 positions on the volume pot. I'm leaning towards filing an RMA exchange with Monoprice detailing the issue with my unit. I believe this is the worst volume pot that I've ever experienced among the amps listed in my sig.


----------



## DowdyPrime

sennfan83261 said:


> Mine is 900396. Linear tracking on mine after a few hours out of the box is non-existent between 8-10 positions on the volume pot. I'm leaning towards filing an RMA exchange with Monoprice detailing the issue with my unit. I believe this is the worst volume pot that I've ever experienced among the amps listed in my sig.



Please post your findings!


----------



## sennfan83261

DowdyPrime said:


> Please post your findings!


Of the headphones that I’ve tried so far (Arya, HE-500, HE-6 prototype, and the LCD-2 rev. 2 pre-fazor), the volume pot exhibited smooth, linear tracking with only the HE-500 and the HE-6 with no channel imbalance up and down the volume pot. With the Arya and the LCD-2, the tracking was not smooth with only a small window of volume adjustment between 10:45 and 11 o’clock (or 10-10:30, in other words: small) and a nice blast of volume at 11 o’clock. Channel imbalance reared its ugly head below 10:45 on the Arya and the LCD-2, as heard on a mono track where the center vocals started drifting to the left channel when the volume pot dipped below 10:45.

Weird. Maybe Dr. Cavalli was more of a Hifiman fan than I thought, at least when it came to the old skool HE-series 

Man, the volume pot sucks and I really like the sound that I’m getting out of the LP so far.


----------



## ksorota

Zachik said:


> Well....... ???
> Any update or info on the volume pot upgrade?  That is holding up my cap upgrade!




I assume you mean something like this?


or this?

Ill say this...Stock faceplate requires modification to make this work, and also I am still working out the connections.  I have some test setups running that have allowed for quick swapping between the dif. resistance RK27's.

Here is one

Some more summer work to be done to clean it up, and shorten the connections.

More to come, but honestly not sure how many of these upgrades I can take on due too a number of factors. This has been a big team effort with Guidostrunk taking on the cosmetic work (which looks fantastic BTW)! Full assembly but this weekend I hope.


----------



## sahmen (Aug 20, 2020)

My second LP landed earlier this week and I'm test driving it now. I do not detect any issues either with the volume pot or anything else, just pure audio glory wfth my Hekse set around the10 o'clockish position. So far, I am just pairing the LP with a modest Massdrop X grace design standard balanced DAC hooked up to Amarra Luxe on my Macbook pro. The sound itself (Tidal/Qobuz music) is stunningly good. The only issue I am having is not knowing how to distribute credit points for this audio goodness between the $150 DAC and the $484 LP.  Not that this is terribly important. It's just a purely academic question, a non-problem, actually. I just thank Dr Cavalli and Grace Design for making such a great sounding combo so affordable. Hell, five years ago I paid $599 for one of the first batch Liquid Carbons, which went up in price not very long afterwards by $200.

Sorry for dwelling a little too much on the $$$ signs. I'm certainly not trying.to gross anyone out,  but I can't help marveling how much such wonderful price-performance values as this combo sometimes go under-appreciated in our day and age., perhaps because of overinflated prices elsewhere in the hobby?


----------



## Zachik

ksorota said:


> I assume you mean something like this?


YES!!   



ksorota said:


> Ill say this...Stock faceplate requires modification to make this work, and also I am still working out the connections. I have some test setups running that have allowed for quick swapping between the dif. resistance RK27's.


Can you post a photo of the modified faceplate?
How does the RK27 behave compared to stock pot?  I am curious whether or not one of the benefits would be a bigger range of useful play. What I mean is:
- Assuming original pot gives 70dB at 10:00 -> 80dB at 10:30 -> 90 dB at 11:00 -> TOO LOUD at 12:00 (totally random numbers to illustrate my question)
- New RK27 gives 70db at 10:30 -> 80 dB at 12:00 -> 90 dB at 14:00 -> Too loud at 16:00

Again, above is fictional numbers for headphone X but it shows useful play in original pot between 10:00 and 11:30 or so, vs. useful range of 10:30 to 15:00 or so with RK27...

Lastly, I hope you find a nice quality and tasteful matching knob for the new pot


----------



## glitch39

> You just need a pair of these.
> https://www.tubemonger.com/12Axx_to...IB_1960s_p/12axx-ecc88-adap-novib-mcmurdo.htm
> 
> The 12au7 tubes are far more superior imo. And are way more reasonable in price than 6922 counterparts.



I did use Mullard 12AU7 + adapters on my LP. Those British tubes do know how to play jazz and vocals. Great match with the neutral signature of the Arya.
It made the LP more "l_iquid_" , IMO.

Call it Monolith Liquid*er *Platinum


----------



## ruinedx

sahmen said:


> My second LP landed earlier this week and I'm test driving it now. I do not detect any issues either with the volume pot or anything else, just pure audio glory wfth my Hekse set around the10 o'clockish position. So far, I am just pairing the LP with a modest Massdrop X grace design standard balanced DAC hooked up to Amarra Luxe on my Macbook pro. The sound itself (Tidal/Qobuz music) is stunningly good. The only issue I am having is not knowing how to distribute credit points for this audio goodness between the $150 DAC and the $484 LP.  Not that this is terribly important. It's just a purely academic question, a non-problem, actually. I just thank Dr Cavalli and Grace Design for making such a great sounding combo so affordable. Hell, five years ago I paid $599 for one of the first batch Liquid Carbons, which went up in price not very long afterwards by $200.
> 
> Sorry for dwelling a little too much on the $$$ signs. I'm certainly not trying.to gross anyone out,  but I can't help marveling how much such wonderful price-performance values as this combo sometimes go under-appreciated in our day and age., perhaps because of overinflated prices elsewhere in the hobby?



I personally wish they would make a LP for a bit more money, maybe 999-1199 street or so, with aluminum faceplate, nicer volume pot, nicer buttons, and neutrik XLRs - overall better build. I would rebuy the amp if they did so


----------



## sahmen

ruinedx said:


> I personally wish they would make a LP for a bit more money, maybe 999-1199 street or so, with aluminum faceplate, nicer volume pot, nicer buttons, and neutrik XLRs - overall better build. I would rebuy the amp if they did so



Yeah, and not to forget an optional beefy  Linear power supply designed by Dr. Cavalli himself to ensure optimal compatibility with the LP. It would be nice if the same power supply works for the Liquid Gold as well.


----------



## glitch39

> You guys are dangerous. Seriously thinking I should unsubscribe this thread at least till i fix the damage in the bank account lol.



I have tried the Western Electric 403B with adapters on the LP and it matched very well with the warm nature of the LCD3.

I really like the flexibility of tube rolling on this amp. But I do have to pay to play. Maybe I should now unsub also....  .


----------



## ruinedx

sahmen said:


> Yeah, and not to forget an optional beefy  Linear power supply designed by Dr. Cavalli himself to ensure optimal compatibility with the LP. It would be nice if the same power supply works for the Liquid Gold as well.


Yeh though that would probably be more like 1499 then


----------



## TK16

glitch39 said:


> I have tried the Western Electric 403B with adapters on the LP and it matched very well with the warm nature of the LCD3.
> 
> I really like the flexibility of tube rolling on this amp. But I do have to pay to play. Maybe I should now unsub also....  .


I used a lot of tubes in the LP, never rolled the 403B. Which adapter do you use?


----------



## sahmen

ruinedx said:


> Yeh though that would probably be more like 1499 then



You're probably right, but then that is why it would be nice to make the LPS Unit an optional buy, so that only those who really want it would buy it. Personally, I do not think I would pass on a Cavalli designed Linear power supply option for these amps if such LPS units can elevate the quality of the sound  for either the LP or the upcoming LG-X.


----------



## ksorota

Zachik said:


> YES!!
> 
> 
> Can you post a photo of the modified faceplate?
> ...



I will post the pictures of the new faceplate once the LP is all back together...potentially early next week as I still have some refinements to make to the wiring and have to more securely mount the Alps pot.  I can tell you that the new faceplate is black and lacks the silly labels (or any labels for that matter) and will give the LP a more stealth look.  I have not found a new volume knob yet, but I am tempted to ask Justin from Headamp if I can purchase the knob from the GLMK2 or GSX mini. (requires more measurements however)

I was under the impression that changing the volume pot would give me more nuanced volume control and was sorely mistaken once I had it all back together.  Thats when I did a bit of research which confirmed that the resistance value does not significantly change the attenuation profile, and that SPL is directly related to the gain of the amp. I tried adding some resistors within the potentiometer path to dump a bit of the signal gain to no avail. 

Compared to stock pot, I find that the volume tracking is much improved and listening at low levels is more enjoyable.  Prior to the pot swap, low level listening was distracting as i could clearly hear the left/right channel imbalance.


----------



## Zachik

ksorota said:


> I will post the pictures of the new faceplate once the LP is all back together...potentially early next week as I still have some refinements to make to the wiring and have to more securely mount the Alps pot. I can tell you that the new faceplate is black and lacks the silly labels (or any labels for that matter) and will give the LP a more stealth look. I have not found a new volume knob yet, but I am tempted to ask Justin from Headamp if I can purchase the knob from the GLMK2 or GSX mini. (requires more measurements however)


Cannot wait! 
As for volume knob - would these be the right size?  https://www.goldpt.com/knobs.html
These are for 6mm shaft, which I believe RK27 has as well.  28mm is the smallest - is it a good fit, or too big?  $15 is not too bad for this REALLY well made knob.
Glenn has used the Silver Satin on my EL3N amp, and it is an AWESOME volume knob


----------



## Slim1970

ksorota said:


> I will post the pictures of the new faceplate once the LP is all back together...potentially early next week as I still have some refinements to make to the wiring and have to more securely mount the Alps pot.  I can tell you that the new faceplate is black and lacks the silly labels (or any labels for that matter) and will give the LP a more stealth look.  I have not found a new volume knob yet, but I am tempted to ask Justin from Headamp if I can purchase the knob from the GLMK2 or GSX mini. (requires more measurements however)
> 
> I was under the impression that changing the volume pot would give me more nuanced volume control and was sorely mistaken once I had it all back together.  Thats when I did a bit of research which confirmed that the resistance value does not significantly change the attenuation profile, and that SPL is directly related to the gain of the amp. I tried adding some resistors within the potentiometer path to dump a bit of the signal gain to no avail.
> 
> Compared to stock pot, I find that the volume tracking is much improved and listening at low levels is more enjoyable.  Prior to the pot swap, low level listening was distracting as i could clearly hear the left/right channel imbalance.


The channel imbalance is thing I want resolved the most. That is what will make this upgrade worth while. Low level listening is almost impossible as it is now.


----------



## sahmen

Wow this is a tough one, or so it seems:  Does anyone know where the range of 22-26db might roughly occur on a normal LP volume Dial?  I have been trying to figure out how best to balance the volume control on the LP with that of Sonnet Morpheus DAC, which also has a volume control, and this is what Cees Ruijtenberg sees as the best approach to take:

 "It very simple , when you use the dac as a digital pre amplifier you can drive the power amp directly. The only restriction is that the gain of the power amp should be something like 22-26 dB. This gain will give you a comfortable range on your volume knob. When using a analog preamp in between set your dac in fixed mode , something between -10 and zero dB's . The same story is valid here, try to find a comfortable range of your volume knob of the analog preamplifier. That means that the volume of the Morpheus was set somewhere between -10 and 0dB, for instance -5dB which you have to fix in the Menu. That is all what you have to do."

The only issue is that the Morpheus has a led Display meter, which the LP does not, a meter on which one can read the volume level. So how does one determine volume level of an HPA which has no meter? Or, where does the range of 22-26db occur on the LP's volume dial? Any help in sorting this out would be appreciated.


----------



## ruinedx (Aug 21, 2020)

sahmen said:


> Wow this is a tough one, or so it seems:  Does anyone know where the range of 22-26db might roughly occur on a normal LP volume Dial?  I have been trying to figure out how best to balance the volume control on the LP with that of Sonnet Morpheus DAC, which also has a volume control, and this is what Cees Ruijtenberg sees as the best approach to take:
> 
> "It very simple , when you use the dac as a digital pre amplifier you can drive the power amp directly. The only restriction is that the gain of the power amp should be something like 22-26 dB. This gain will give you a comfortable range on your volume knob. When using a analog preamp in between set your dac in fixed mode , something between -10 and zero dB's . The same story is valid here, try to find a comfortable range of your volume knob of the analog preamplifier. That means that the volume of the Morpheus was set somewhere between -10 and 0dB, for instance -5dB which you have to fix in the Menu. That is all what you have to do."
> 
> The only issue is that the Morpheus has a led Display meter, which the LP does not, a meter on which one can read the volume level. So how does one determine volume level of an HPA which has no meter? Or, where does the range of 22-26db occur on the LP's volume dial? Any help in sorting this out would be appreciated.


Most DACs have best quality at full output, including those that compensate for volume change. As long as your liquid platinum channel balance sounds good at listening level with DAC at full output that would be best bet.


----------



## sahmen

ruinedx said:


> Most DACs have best quality at full output, including those that compensate for volume change. As long as your liquid platinum channel balance sounds good at listening level with DAC at full output that would be best bet.



This could  be helpful, except that the Morpheus does not seem to have anything like a "full output" maxing out level... Or this is what the manual says:

"The volume control is a so called rotary encoder so it has no end stops like a normal potentiometer. By turning the volume
knob, the output level will be changed in steps of + or - 1 dB. After reaching a level of -64 dB the Morpheus will automatically switch to mute
mode. Increasing the volume level will disable the mute setting. In case that the Morpheus is set for “fixed output level” the volume knob has no
function except the “mute function”. The volume level is visible on the front panel display by exact Decibel level and a thermometer scale. In
fixed mode the display tells you the fixed user setting like -10dBF The “F” stands for fixed.

Remark: When using the Morpheus in conjunction with a power amp and without intervention of a pre amplifier the recommended
gain of the used power amp should be between 22 and 26dB!"

***Notice that it mentions -64 dB as the lowest volume level at which the Morpheus switches to mute mode, but mentions no upper volume limit, and therein lies the riddle...

There is no pre-amp between the Morpheus and the LP, so I think the best approach is to use the Morpheus as the variable volume controlling unit, with the LP's volume fixed somewhere between 22 and 26db as the manual and Cees both say.  One main advantage to this approach is that the Morpheus brings a lot more play room, and with that, more layers and shades of subtlety and refinement to the sound and volume range than what the LP alone can muster precisely because of the volume control/pot limitations that many people have been complaining about in this forum.  This elegant volume control workaround/solution  has been one of the unexpected surprises of the Morpheus, and probably one of the best gifts it has brought to the LP, I think.  I still do not understand how it works that kind of magic, nor had I seen an example of this particular approach before, although I have owned a few DACs with volume controls.

So I still have to figure out were the 22-26db range occurs on the LP's volume dial.


----------



## Guidostrunk (Aug 21, 2020)

Unity gain on the LP is 1:30 on the dial. Turn the volume down on your dac and set the LP at 130 you can use your dac for attenuation. That's what @atomicbob does with a preamp.


sahmen said:


> Wow this is a tough one, or so it seems:  Does anyone know where the range of 22-26db might roughly occur on a normal LP volume Dial?  I have been trying to figure out how best to balance the volume control on the LP with that of Sonnet Morpheus DAC, which also has a volume control, and this is what Cees Ruijtenberg sees as the best approach to take:
> 
> "It very simple , when you use the dac as a digital pre amplifier you can drive the power amp directly. The only restriction is that the gain of the power amp should be something like 22-26 dB. This gain will give you a comfortable range on your volume knob. When using a analog preamp in between set your dac in fixed mode , something between -10 and zero dB's . The same story is valid here, try to find a comfortable range of your volume knob of the analog preamplifier. That means that the volume of the Morpheus was set somewhere between -10 and 0dB, for instance -5dB which you have to fix in the Menu. That is all what you have to do."
> 
> The only issue is that the Morpheus has a led Display meter, which the LP does not, a meter on which one can read the volume level. So how does one determine volume level of an HPA which has no meter? Or, where does the range of 22-26db occur on the LP's volume dial? Any help in sorting this out would be appreciated.


----------



## Slim1970

Guidostrunk said:


> Unity gain on the LP is 1:30 on the dial. Turn the volume down on your dac and set the LP at 130 you can use your dac for attenuation. That's what @atomicbob does with a preamp.


This is what I do with my Hugo 2 as well to get to higher volume levels on the LP. Works like a charm.


----------



## Tex Irie

I just got mine this afternoon. That delivery was quick less than 36 hour turn around time. And the pictures doesn't do this Amp justice... Very solid build quality. Socket savers and Brimar tubes on the way. Thank you @Wes S!


----------



## dmcs414

I figure this seems an ok place to ask this question since you guys are familiar with Cavalli amps so I'll give it a go.  Some years ago I had the pleasure of listening to an amp Alex brought to a Head-Fi meet in Austin called Liquid Glass, a tube hybrid amp which I imagine is out of production now.  Anyway I remember really liking it and would like to see if it's possible to find one on the second hand market, but have no idea what that would be worth or even if those were sold or are still around.  Not much info to be found googling it, anyone familiar with it?


----------



## hikaru12 (Aug 21, 2020)

If anyone is looking to do a trade with me for their non modded LP for my cap modded one I’d be up for it. Not that I have anything bad to say about the cap mod but I like a warmer more laid back tone which is what I think the stock caps give you. I got good trader feedback. If interested please PM me.

Also @Wes do you know of a good bassy gain 12AU7 tube? I’m pretty sure I’m going for the Aeolus and want something that contributes to their slam.


----------



## Odin412

dmcs414 said:


> I figure this seems an ok place to ask this question since you guys are familiar with Cavalli amps so I'll give it a go.  Some years ago I had the pleasure of listening to an amp Alex brought to a Head-Fi meet in Austin called Liquid Glass, a tube hybrid amp which I imagine is out of production now.  Anyway I remember really liking it and would like to see if it's possible to find one on the second hand market, but have no idea what that would be worth or even if those were sold or are still around.  Not much info to be found googling it, anyone familiar with it?



I remember listening to a Liquid Glass with MrSpeakers headphones at one of the THE Newport shows and I really enjoyed it. I keep hoping that Monoprice or Massdrop will produce a version of it some time in the future.


----------



## hikaru12

Odin412 said:


> I remember listening to a Liquid Glass with MrSpeakers headphones at one of the THE Newport shows and I really enjoyed it. I keep hoping that Monoprice or Massdrop will produce a version of it some time in the future.



I doubt Monoprice will step foot in that arena. That amp could swap in so many variations of tubes their overhead would be quite high. At least keeping their product line semi solid state keeps costs down.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Unity gain on the LP is 1:30 on the dial. Turn the volume down on your dac and set the LP at 130 you can use your dac for attenuation. That's what @atomicbob does with a preamp.


You get that tube dac yet? Any impressions?


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## sennfan83261 (Aug 21, 2020)

dmcs414 said:


> I figure this seems an ok place to ask this question since you guys are familiar with Cavalli amps so I'll give it a go.  Some years ago I had the pleasure of listening to an amp Alex brought to a Head-Fi meet in Austin called Liquid Glass, a tube hybrid amp which I imagine is out of production now.  Anyway I remember really liking it and would like to see if it's possible to find one on the second hand market, but have no idea what that would be worth or even if those were sold or are still around.  Not much info to be found googling it, anyone familiar with it?


People have been selling them on the used market for $2,500 - $3,000 over the past couple of years (search for it on hifishark and scroll through the sold/expired listings). They don't come up for sale that often.



hikaru12 said:


> I doubt Monoprice will step foot in that arena. That amp could swap in so many variations of tubes their overhead would be quite high. At least keeping their product line semi solid state keeps costs down.


The Liquid Glass was a hybrid too (of course different topology than the current offerings ):


----------



## Tex Irie

These stock tubes sound pretty decent out the box. More solid state than tube and thank you to whomever mentioned attenuating the DAC volume and setting the LP to 1:30 first.


----------



## ruinedx

Tex Irie said:


> These stock tubes sound pretty decent out the box. More solid state than tube and thank you to whomever mentioned attenuating the DAC volume and setting the LP to 1:30 first.


Yeah the stock tubes sound good to me.

The "more solid state than tube" is not a bad thing IMO.  But they are tube-like enough that they take the edge off typical solid state sound.


----------



## ruinedx

ruinedx said:


> My first unit had a perfect pot but balanced jack was proving so tight it was unusable and damaging my XLR cables.  Hoping for the best with unit 2.  If it has major pot issues it's going back also.
> 
> Despite QA issues it's the best I've heard under $1500 that has balanced in and small form factor


Got replacement, front jack much better.  pot same as the first, no problem.  Remains my fav under $1500.


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## MLegend

Guidostrunk said:


> Unity gain on the LP is 1:30 on the dial. Turn the volume down on your dac and set the LP at 130 you can use your dac for attenuation. That's what @atomicbob does with a preamp.


Where did you read that unity gain was 1:30 on the volume pot? Also, the position on the knob is going to be different depending on whether balanced or single-ended is being used.


----------



## Rattle

Using SE in or XLR in on LP is same because of the phase splitter. 4v regardless. No one uses SE jack on the LP for headphones because it's a waste of time.


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## Guidostrunk

It's sitting at home waiting for me lol. Been stuck in Maryland on a job. Should be home later this afternoon. I can't wait to give it a whirl. Lol


TK16 said:


> You get that tube dac yet? Any impressions?


----------



## Guidostrunk

The person I mentioned in my post has a detailed thread on it on another site that I can't mention or link on here do to headfi policy. The position on the LP knob will not change from 130. It's where the unity gain is, but the level on the preamp or dac( if it has a volume control) will possibly be a different setting. 


MLegend said:


> Where did you read that unity gain was 1:30 on the volume pot? Also, the position on the knob is going to be different depending on whether balanced or single-ended is being used.


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## sahmen (Aug 23, 2020)

hikaru12 said:


> If anyone is looking to do a trade with me for their non modded LP for my cap modded one I’d be up for it. Not that I have anything bad to say about the cap mod but I like a warmer more laid back tone which is what I think the stock caps give you. I got good trader feedback. If interested please PM me.
> 
> Also @Wes do you know of a good bassy gain 12AU7 tube? I’m pretty sure I’m going for the Aeolus and want something that contributes to their slam.



You know what's weird!  I also got the mod done on my original LP, and when it came  back I was a little startled by the extra "edge"  and "rawness" added to the notes, and also  by the apparently enhanced detail retrieval, and I confess that I have caught myself second guessing myself, regarding what to think about the mod and its effects :  Was it a good thing, or maybe too much of a good thing, so to speak?  I have not been able to answer this question satisfactorily  or definitively until now, but even then, I think it is better to say that I am only *beginning* to get the answer I am looking for, and that the process is not yet complete. This hesitation or wavering between the two options is to be expected, since I  was not among those who initially found anything  to be wrong with the sonic status quo of the og LP before going for the mod.  I opted to go for the mod, because I found its "early adopters" to be quite persuasive in touting its benefits, and that was, at least enough to pique the curiosity of the "mad scientist" half of my audiophile brain, so to speak. 

Now as I said before, since getting the modded LP back, I have not completely stopped wondering whether I liked the new sound of it, or whether I found it to be too much of a good thing.  Well I happened to take advantage of the $484 sale, and the arrival of the new unit is allowing me the opportunity to compare the modded with the un-modded sound, and guess what I am now thinking:

First of all, I am now discovering for the first time the "muffled sonic quality" of the non-modded version, which the early adopters were complaining about. Yes, so I was not aware that my og LP sounded in any way "muffled" until I sent it out for the mod.  Since getting my modded unit back, I have been wondering whether the mod has made the notes from the LP too "raw", edgy, or "un-muffled" for my tastes...   Yet now that I am having the opportunity to listen to an un-modded version from the $484 sale, I am slowly discovering that I prefer the relatively "unveiled" character of the notes on the modded version, in many areas, especially in the area of most high frequency notes, and in the way the modded version can seemingly retrieve additional granular details and "plankton" from within the sound field, so go figure!

The only sonic aspect(s) I still prefer about the unmodded version is that the notes at the lower end of the spectrum, i.e  in the bass and sub-bass regions, sound somewhat (by which I mean veeery slightly) meatier than those of the modded unit, which sound sightly less meaty or full as compared to low-end notes from the og LP, but also somewhat "cleaner", and and less "veiled," comparatively speaking. This difference is rather subtle, and does not imply that bass on the modded LP is taking any  egregious "hit" from the mod, or that it has become"thin" or "lean" in any way that is unacceptable.  Still there are times when I wish I could get this "low-end" of the og LP with everything else from the modded version in the same box, but I am guessing that this relative "meatiness" of the og's low end is exactly what produces the slight "muffled-ness" or "veiled" haze that the mod sets out to address, and addresses so well, in the first place, so what's a guy to do?.

This input is being offered not to convert you or convince you to change your mind about wanting back the sound of the un-modded LP, or anything of the sort.  I am just adding it to the information you might need to consider as you weigh your options...  Of course, the following question is included, but I am not pretending to supply any adequate answer here:
"What if you discover, after getting an un-modded LP, that you prefer the sound of the modded version after all."?

The "lesson" I seem to be taking away here is that one cannot un-hear what one has already heard, and that the memory of what one has heard might always or often come back not only to haunt the present, but also spoil any parties one is having in the present. Obviously, this insight does not only apply to the LP, or even to this hobby alone...

Personally, I am not planning on selling or getting rid of either version of my LPs. The new one will not get modded, and the modded one will not get "un-modded."  I am just trying to decide which one of them to retain in my near-field rig at home, and which one to send to my office, and the decision is not easy.  To complicate mattes even further, I do not think either version has completed its "burn-in" journey as both the modding and the $484 sale acquisition are way too recent still.

So far, I just feel I can really live with both quite easily, and besides "the mad-scientist half of my audiophile brain" is quite content and seems to enjoy such conundrums and quandaries a bit, perhaps even too much.


----------



## sahmen

Guidostrunk said:


> Unity gain on the LP is 1:30 on the dial. Turn the volume down on your dac and set the LP at 130 you can use your dac for attenuation. That's what @atomicbob does with a preamp.



The idea of unity gain at 1:30 seemed a bit unexpected at first, but I have been trying exactly this approach for a while now, and it is sounding quite elegant and smooth-sailing so far.  Thanks for suggesting it.


----------



## ksorota

sahmen said:


> The idea of unity gain at 1:30 seemed a bit unexpected at first, but I have been trying exactly this approach for a while now, and it is sounding quite elegant and smooth-sailing so far.  Thanks for suggesting it.


This is one nice feature of the soekris dacs, the 1321 pairs nicely with the LP, and output levels can be adjusted to allow you to get past noon on the dial!

I hope the LP DAC has this feature.


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## hikaru12 (Aug 22, 2020)

sahmen said:


> The only sonic aspect(s) I still prefer about the unmodded version is that the notes at the lower end of the spectrum, i.e in the bass and sub-bass regions, sound somewhat (by which I mean veeery slightly) meatier than those of the modded unit, which sound sightly less meaty or full as compared to low-end notes from the og LP, but also somewhat "cleaner",



I think you nailed it. The stock LP seems to sound boomier and warmer, but in my eyes more liquid. The cap mod sounds more clear and provides a sharper image and also I think responds even better to tube swapping so tubes that compliment the originals characteristics such as my 77 Vokshods sound great (laid back, more gain, more impactful midbass) but sound unpleasing on the modded version. Switching to a brighter version of the same tube accentuates parts of the sound I don't care for and tubes I would have never liked on the unmodded version like some GE JANs for being too warm sound good on the modded version albeit at a loss of a good amount of detail. As I stated before I think those that prefer clarity, purity and cleanliness will love the modded version (Keith also has different types of caps so I'm almost certain you can research how they affect the sound) but call me crazy that 'veil' warm sound sounds seductive in it's own right. I also think I liked it because I disliked my Aryas 5k peak and so the warmer nature of the stock LP calmed it down and made it a more enjoyable headphone. Nonetheless I would say the LP is a great amp for tonality and not so much technicalities (specifically detail) but that's what I love about it. If you already love your headphones or want to tweak them slightly (say a Utopia, Arya, or similar brightish can) this amp will do just enough to make you enjoy every aspect of your cans. I couldn't believe a $500 amp would be enough to make me feel this way. I thought I had to spring for a GSX MK2 or a DSHA-3 but I'm glad I was wrong.


----------



## MLegend

Guidostrunk said:


> The person I mentioned in my post has a detailed thread on it on another site that I can't mention or link on here do to headfi policy. The position on the LP knob will not change from 130. It's where the unity gain is, but the level on the preamp or dac( if it has a volume control) will possibly be a different setting.


I presumed that was what you were referring to. In atomicbob's evaluation, he states "Platinum gain knob at approximately 11:00 to achieve 0 dB gain Bal, 1:00 for 0 dB gain SE". Unless he has stated otherwise more recently, I believe 1:30 is more than needed to achieve 0 dB gain, if that's what you're trying to do.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'll have to find the post. I believe it's actually in the other LP thread on there. Maybe @atomicbob will chime in here to confirm. 


MLegend said:


> I presumed that was what you were referring to. In atomicbob's evaluation, he states "Platinum gain knob at approximately 11:00 to achieve 0 dB gain Bal, 1:00 for 0 dB gain SE". Unless he has stated otherwise more recently, I believe 1:30 is more than needed to achieve 0 dB gain, if that's what you're trying to do.


----------



## ruinedx (Aug 22, 2020)

sahmen said:


> First of all, I am now discovering for the first time the "muffled sonic quality" of the non-modded version, which the early adopters were complaining about. Yes, so I was not aware that my og LP sounded in any way "muffled" until I sent it out for the mod.  Since getting my modded unit back, I have been wondering whether the mod has made the notes from the LP too "raw", edgy, or "un-muffled" for my tastes...   Yet now that I am having the opportunity to listen to an un-modded version from the $484 sale, I am slowly discovering that I prefer the relatively "unveiled" character of the notes on the modded version, in many areas, especially in the area of most high frequency notes, and in the way the modded version can seemingly retrieve additional granular details and "plankton" from within the sound field, so go figure!



This is 100% going to depend what headphone you use on it.  A headphone that has tipped up treble (i.e. HD800) will sound worse on your modded one and better on your unmodded one.  A headphone with blunted treble (i.e. HD6xx) will sound better on your modded one and worse on your unmodded one.

A simpler way to do this to a lesser extent is simply changing out the stock tubes for a bit brighter tube instead of modifying the hardware.

Personally I've found LP + MF MX-DAC + stock tubes + HD820 is a near perfect combination.


----------



## Skooks

hikaru12 said:


> Finally able to make my impressions of the cap mod. Luckily I am in the same state as Keith so the turnaround was literally overnight.
> 
> I’ll have to say at first I didn’t really care for this mod. I felt like it took away too much of the magic of the original LP which was a nice seductive warmth and bass for more mid and overall clarity but I was wrong. This thing now reacts to tubes like a tube amp. It’s so easy to pick apart differences in tubes even in the same family. I was able to detect changes from a more V shaped gain 77 Vokshod Rockets to 75 Rockets which is a nice more seductive laid back sound which is my preferred sound preference. Detail takes a nice back seat.
> 
> ...


I just got a pair of Telefunken Black Diamond ECC88 / 12AU7 tubes and put them in yesterday in my LP with Cap Mod... terrific sound!  If you haven't tried them yet, it would sure be worth the $108 for the pair.


----------



## Skooks

wormsdriver said:


> I received my LP yesterday (USPS delivers on Sunday!?) and was listening to it last night.
> I have Grado ps1000, Hd800 and ZMF Eikon. I spent an hour maybe with the Grado then the rest of the time with the Eikon since I've been on the fence about selling it.
> It only came with stock pair of tubes and another pair of tubes. So far I haven't heard the stock tubes so I'll listen to those tonight.
> I wanted to hear the LP stock for at least a week before doing the cap mod. So far I wasn't super impressed but that doesn't really mean anything since there's been lots of gear that I wasn't impressed by at first listen then ended up really appreciating it after a bit more listening.
> I'm looking forward to tonight and eventually listening to it with different caps.


I had to put a little over 150 hours on my LP before it took its place in good music.  Then, I had the Cap Mod done and put another 100 hours on it and it really is doing an outstanding job with the right tubes.  I use the Topping D90 DAC and Arya Headphones... best sound I've had in 11 years of serious headphone music making!  And, as I've already posted, I got a pair of Telefunken Black Diamond 12AU7's yesterday... still burning them in, but so far they are outstanding!


----------



## hikaru12

Skooks said:


> I just got a pair of Telefunken Black Diamond ECC88 / 12AU7 tubes and put them in yesterday in my LP with Cap Mod... terrific sound!  If you haven't tried them yet, it would sure be worth the $108 for the pair.


I’ll check those out. What do you like about them? I’m probably going to go with some Valvo Hamburg 56s next.


----------



## ruinedx (Aug 22, 2020)

ksorota said:


> This is one nice feature of the soekris dacs, the 1321 pairs nicely with the LP, and output levels can be adjusted to allow you to get past noon on the dial!
> 
> I hope the LP DAC has this feature.


Why do you want to go past noon on the dial?  At least on my LP there is no channel imbalance after 7pm, so I don't see the advantage of going past noon

I know it may be a little easier to have a larger range of dial motion, but the sound quality should theoretically be better if you run the DAC at full volume to the amp and only amplify that signal as much needed to get to listening level. If you digitally reduce volume at the DAC you lose resolution on most DACs (even on most DACs designed to compensate for this you lose resolution - you just lose less resolution on those)


----------



## ksorota

ruinedx said:


> Why do you want to go past noon on the dial?  At least on my LP there is no channel imbalance after 7pm, so I don't see the advantage of going past noon
> 
> I know it may be a little easier to have a larger range of dial motion, but the sound quality should theoretically be better if you run the DAC at full volume to the amp and only amplify that signal as much needed to get to listening level. If you digitally reduce volume at the DAC you lose resolution on most DACs (even on most DACs designed to compensate for this you lose resolution - you just lose less resolution on those)



I understand what you are saying...and its completely irrational, but its just fun having more adjust-ability on the volume knob!

Even still, this amp is as close to end game as I have been in this hobby in regards to amps...paired with my GLMK2 I have all my bases covered except for portable which is not a concern for me most of the time anymore.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Tube madness folks. Finally got around to hearing this dac @TK16 . I'll report back later this evening with my thoughts. Initially it's soft and rolled off in the treble compared to my Denafrips Ares. We shall see though.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Tube madness folks. Finally got around to hearing this dac @TK16 . I'll report back later this evening with my thoughts. Initially it's soft and rolled off in the treble compared to my Denafrips Ares. We shall see though.


Tube rolling plays a big part in the sound signature in that dac. I take it that ECC82 work in it, never tried them. Leaving cover off is pretty hardcore.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'll be drilling some holes in the lid to be able to change the tubes. Lol. I'm sending it off to get a cap upgrade. As of right now it seems veiled , lacks dynamics, transparency, and the bass impact/slam of the Denafrips. Soundstage wise it's bigger but beings what I mentioned above the imaging is suffering. 
Hoping the Silmic ii deliver the same results as they did for the LP. 


TK16 said:


> Tube rolling plays a big part in the sound signature in that dac. I take it that ECC82 work in it, never tried them. Leaving cover off is pretty hardcore.


----------



## nwavesailor

Guidostrunk said:


> I'll be drilling some holes in the lid to be able to change the tubes. Lol. I'm sending it off to get a cap upgrade. As of right now it seems veiled , lacks dynamics, transparency, and the bass impact/slam of the Denafrips. Soundstage wise it's bigger but beings what I mentioned above the imaging is suffering.
> Hoping the Silmic ii deliver the same results as they did for the LP.


Do you have a conduit knockout punch?
These make great and very clean holes in a chassis lid if they are sharp!


----------



## Skooks

I'm confused... are you talking about the LP Amp or DAC when comparing it to the Denefrips Ares?  If you are going to cut into the top of the LP, what about cutting the section out between the tubes?
To swap the tube riser out for the one to use with the ECC82 / 12AU7, I got a pair of vice grips to grab the top of the riser. That's is a pain... but, at least I didn't damage the top of the LP.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I actually have a drill press using a Multi step bit lol


nwavesailor said:


> Do you have a conduit knockout punch?
> These make great and very clean holes in a chassis lid if they are sharp!


----------



## nwavesailor

Guidostrunk said:


> I actually have a drill press using a Multi step bit lol


OK! A good step bit should be nice and clean as well!


----------



## ruinedx (Aug 24, 2020)

more comments on the pot since seems to be a point of concern

This new pot on replacement seems to get louder slightly faster than my old one.  on 300ohm HD820 most music I don't make it past 9pm - if i recall it was more like 10pm on my first unit but I don't have them side by side so can't say for sure.  On stuff that has a lower recording level I can get to 12pm.  either way doesn't seem to be of any concern.  for my 38ohm grados I listen around 8pm.

in terms of channel imbalance, there is a very small imbalance to the right when the audio is barely audible but this is relatively normal in my experience.  even with 38ohm grado hemp at very low (but normal) listening volumes there is no imbalance. Start to get audio at 7pm and by 7:05pm any imbalance that existed is cleared up.

So in conclusion, yeah the pot you can only use a small range but as long as you are not a total klutz adjusting the volume this appears to be no issue with current production units as the volume knob does seem to be precise in terms of adjustments and even with my most sensitive headphones there is no imbalance at low listening levels.  One could use xlr attenuators etc if you want to use more of the range, but I don't see any sonic advantage to this, IMO theoretically I'd want to amplify the signal as little as possible with my full DAC output. As attenuators are not necessary on my 38ohm grados I would assume most mid to high end headphones would not need attenuators.


----------



## greenkiwi

I wish they would have a rev 1.1 and drop the gain, or have a jumper to adjust the gain.   It is definitely my biggest complaint with the LP.  My approach has been to perform -3dB or -6dB reduction in the digital domain.

I wonder whether adjusting the gain is something that could be a reasonable mod?


----------



## axsnyder

Aryas... check. D90... check.  Found @Skooks posts in this thread... LP on the way.


----------



## Skooks

Give the system about 150 hours of burn in and then let us know what you think.  Of course, there can be some variations in musical output depending on your cables and your ears.  But, I think you will really like the sound.  And, oh yes, after you get those 4 or 5 days of burn in, then you should send it for the caps mod.  Might as well go all the way!


----------



## sennfan83261 (Aug 28, 2020)

The volume pot on the replacement LP that I received today is far more linear than the one I sent back, especially with cans that were problematic with the previous LP (e.g. Arya's). There is still a jump between 10-11 o'clock, but it is not as steep as before, far less steep, and the tracking is considerably better and more linear between 8-10 o'clock on the replacement unit. Thankfully, I am not hearing any significant channel imbalance below 10 o'clock with the replacement LP, which was quite jarring with the previous unit. When I filled out my RMA, I explicitly mentioned the lack of linear tracking, the huge jump in volume between 10 and 11 o'clock, and the channel imbalance below 10 o'clock. Early days yet, but the replacement LP looks promising with my Arya's and HD800S.


----------



## ruinedx

sennfan83261 said:


> The volume pot on the replacement LP that I received today is far more linear than the one I sent back, especially with cans that were problematic with the previous LP (e.g. Arya's). There is still a jump between 10-11 o'clock, but it is not as steep as before, far less steep, and the tracking is considerably better and more linear between 8-10 o'clock on the replacement unit. Thankfully, I am not hearing any significant channel imbalance below 10 o'clock with the replacement LP, which was quite jarring with the previous unit. When I filled out my RMA, I explicitly mentioned the lack of linear tracking, the huge jump in volume between 10 and 11 o'clock, and the channel imbalance below 10 o'clock. Early days yet, but the replacement LP looks promising with my Arya's and HD800S.



For most music HD800S around 9-930?


----------



## sennfan83261 (Aug 28, 2020)

ruinedx said:


> For most music HD800S around 9-930?


Correct. For my ears, 9-930 on the replacement LP's pot is my comfortable listening range for the HD800S.


----------



## ruinedx

sennfan83261 said:


> Correct. For my ears, 9-930 on the replacement LP's pot is my comfortable listening range with the HD800S.


About same on mine as well. Mine has a tiny bit of imbalance when audio is barely audible (and I mean barely audible, as in 1 step above silent) but anything above barely audible is balanced L/R

I think the newer shipments the volume knobs have been better QA'd


----------



## ruinedx (Aug 31, 2020)

Sandifop said:


> Whoa. You know the LP is tube, right? That’s high praise from a SS guy.
> 
> Glad you enjoy it, and thank you for building mine.


Liquid Platinum is the first amp with a tube I've loved

I've used mostly solid state for over 20yr

LP is something special (even stock, cap mod not needed), and IMO rivals or exceeds amps that cost many times it's price of any type


----------



## hemtmaker

Big shout-out to Keith, aka ksorota for the parts and detailed advice on the cap mod. I managed to put everything together last night and it already sounded great without burn-in. I am rocking the Arya from a pulse infinity dac to the liquid platinum


----------



## ksorota

Working on the write up, but I guess it’s time to show off the results of the latest mod!
Big shout out to @Guidostrunk  for the cosmetic work... stealth black just looks perfect on this amp.


----------



## Guidostrunk

That's exactly how I'll be doing mine. In the process of designing and ordering a stencil for those who might want them on their plate. I'm going stealth as well lol


----------



## nwavesailor

ksorota said:


> Working on the write up, but I guess it’s time to show off the results of the latest mod!
> Big shout out to @Guidostrunk  for the cosmetic work... stealth black just looks perfect on this amp.



Those look like 7730's in your LP?!?!?


----------



## ksorota

nwavesailor said:


> Those look like 7730's in your LP?!?!?


 
good 👁


----------



## ruinedx

(delete - wrong thread)


----------



## ksorota

ksorota said:


> Working on the write up, but I guess it’s time to show off the results of the latest mod!
> Big shout out to @Guidostrunk  for the cosmetic work... stealth black just looks perfect on this amp.



I have been low on time lately and have not been able to get photos organized quite yet but here is the summary of what has been done to the LP. 

Bit of backstory...Sam and I have been working on modding the LP for a few months now with his original idea of upgrading the caps to Elna Silmic II's to see what kind of improvement it could bring.  Many swaps later their remained the issue of a sub-par volume pot with low-mid level channel imbalance.  Then the discussion turned to how to fix it.  

Well, how hard could it be to swap out a volume pot, right?

Turns out that it is not terribly difficult to do so, but the pot we chose to use is the Alps RK27, sort of industry standard volume pot that is quite a bit larger than the stock knock off version.  


Original thought was...maybe it could fit into the stock location, but after a few measurements it became clear that the Alps was too large, both in length and in height of the shaft.  Turns out the Alps is wider than it is tall, and rotated 90 degrees, it fits perfectly between the stock pot location and the adjacent components to the left of it (such as in the picture above, but turned)  So I went to work desoldering the OG pot and getting the board cleaned up for testing.  

Couple issues to overcome:

Determine the pin-map of the stock daughter board to the main circuit board, which of course was unique.  
Second test had me coming to terms with the fact that their really was not enough room in the case to apply my own daughter board at that I was going to have to just go direct from Alps to board.  
The new placement meant that the stock faceplate was going to have to have a new hole drilled.

The third problem was solved by @Guidostrunk .  He filled in the original hole location and drilled and bored out the new one.  He also went above and beyond with the finish paint work.  Sanding the stock plate, painting, wet sanding, painting, clear coating...he did it all and it turned out fantastic and a great match for the original LP finish.  Gone are all text and symbols, but I never needed those in the first place and prefer the murdered out look!  The stock volume knob was usable with the new setup, but the larger one I ended up going with just felt a bit nicer.  I like the larger diameter and knurled edge. 

Knob

Number 1 and 2 were solved together and ended with me testing a number of difference resistance Alps pots to "try all possibilities"  of attenuation.  The stock pot is a 50K resistance pot.  My finally settlement was for the same.  I tried 10k and 100k.  10k sounded great with a little more low end, but also sound leakage at the lowest volume.  The 100k also sounds great and provides a very smooth rotation to listening level, but ramps up quickly from 10-11, so back to the 50k which basically follows the stock pots profile and has me listening at 11 or so unless its late and quiet and then its much lower.  

Here is one of the original test fits showing the tangle of cables and basically the proof of concept. 

In this image I parted a Kimber PBJ cable for the wiring, but the gauge was way too big and became a problem removing the wires for further testing.  I switched to some silver 24 gauge wire that was much easier to work with in the final iteration.  


Here is the stock hole vs. the new hole and vol pot location.  The Alps housing had to be glued to the board for a nice secure feel.  Also realized at this point that the new hole had to be dished out like the stock location so that the threaded section would come through the front plate.  

So how does it sound is the most obvious question.  Good, very good is the answer.  With the 10k pot, I never quite got to 0 volume, but it was very faint like whispers in your ear...but these whispers were very nicely balanced.  The 100K pot allows to full 0 volume, but also retains a hint of channel imbalance at the whisper level.  The 50K pot is just right!  Tight volume matching, smooth attenuation and a really nice overall upgrade.  



I hesitated to show this off since I currently I do not have a lot of bandwidth to offer this as an upgrade service like the cap upgrade (cap upgrade I can still do).  But I have also alluded to this often and wanted to show that its possible, and does make an improvement.  I also was directed that perhaps we could try and Alps RK09, compact volume pot, but I could not locate a 4-gang unit.  I am sure they exist, but they might be special order parts from Alps.  

Give me a few months to finish my home move and get school squared away and I will be able to some upgrades for folks at a slow pace.  The upgrade involves the removal and replacement of the volume pot, but also some fairly heavy cosmetic work to finish off the product.  

I am glad I took this on, and really love the new feel of the volume pot and the new improved sound. 

If anyone is inclined to take this one, I can provide answers to any questions you would have, just let me know!


----------



## ruinedx (Sep 2, 2020)

I'm all for a better volume pot and would gladly pay for this upgrade but I don't think the channel imbalance is an issue anymore on currently shipping units. People with this issue should be able to return under warranty and get a replacement. The range is still small but the channels are balanced in the 2 units I've tried of newer batch.


----------



## Gene4797

Hi guys, I just bought on eBay ,2x TESLA E88CC (6922) Matched pair GOLD plated-pin! NOS! 1969y , what you think is it will be good match, if not what you can to advise ? Thank you


----------



## ksorota

ruinedx said:


> I'm all for a better volume pot and would gladly pay for this upgrade but I don't think the channel imbalance is an issue anymore on currently shipping units. People with this issue should be able to return under warranty and get a replacement. The range is still small but the channels are balanced in the 2 units I've tried of newer batch.


You bring up the obvious and fair point.  What was the point?

In this case the goal was to start working on the gain issue and see if we could attenuate the signal moreso than stock.  I tried some other tricks that should have worked, but not going to get into that. It is something that can be done for relatively cheap if your willing to do it, and may help some of those who own the LP past warranty (is that possible at this point)  and want to play around with making it a more competent amp.  

Is this an upgrade/sidegrade/alt-grade? yes. 

Would it really truly be worth it, probably not, but in the end...it was fun to do!  I wondered if it could be done and I fulfilled my own curiosity and am very happy with the results. I am trying to get away from just buying different iterations of headphones and luckily playing with circuits is relatively easy...and its something fun to do while also focusing on the audio hobby.


----------



## ruinedx

ksorota said:


> You bring up the obvious and fair point.  What was the point?



You stated "there remained the issue of a sub-par volume pot with low-mid level channel imbalance" and I was simply noting for people who might be new to the thread that newer revisions appear to have resolved this issue.


----------



## Guidostrunk

There's other factors besides balance issues. That alone is why I'll be getting mine done. Alps is known for quality. Cheap pots also create noise and distortion.


----------



## Curtisvill

ruinedx said:


> You stated "there remained the issue of a sub-par volume pot with low-mid level channel imbalance" and I was simply noting for people who might be new to the thread that newer revisions appear to have resolved this issue.



I have one of the newer units and channel imbalance is not an issue for me.  It is good to know that there is a fix for the earlier units.


----------



## sennfan83261 (Sep 2, 2020)

Guidostrunk said:


> There's other factors besides balance issues. That alone is why I'll be getting mine done. Alps is known for quality. Cheap pots also create noise and distortion.


Yeah, cheap pots that are used in the CTH and the 789 definitely lead to "scratchy pot" syndrome, the CTH reaching that ignominious finish line far sooner than the 789. With the Alps pots, don't they get scratchy eventually? Obviously not as fast as the cheap pots used by Drop and Monoprice. With so many knock-off Alps blue velvet pots sold these days (often fraudulently passed off as genuine), can anyone be really sure that the one they purchased is the real mccoy?

If the pot replacement reduces/eliminates channel imbalance issues, makes tracking more linear, and last longer without developing scratchy pot ear-rape, then I'd consider that as a win in my books.


----------



## ruinedx (Sep 2, 2020)

sennfan83261 said:


> Yeah, cheap pots that are used in the CTH and the 789 that eventually lead to a "scratchy pot" syndrome.


Fyi this can often be fixed by adding a drop of caig deoxit to the pot.

Worth noting these units have 5yr warranty so all this stuff (imbalance, scratchy pot, etc) should be covered by warranty in that time period for free.

Of course if you want to upgrade the pot for other reasons besides repair that's another story.


----------



## sennfan83261

ruinedx said:


> Fyi this can often be fixed by adding a drop of caig deoxit to the pot.


Yeah, I did that to my scratchy Magni 3 pot, and the problem came back a week later. It is easier for me to turn the knobs of the CTH and the 789 a few times before powering them up to reduce the scratchiness of the volume pot during my listening sessions.


----------



## ruinedx

sennfan83261 said:


> Yeah, I did that to my scratchy Magni 3 pot, and the problem came back a week later. It is easier for me to turn the knobs of the CTH and the 789 a few times before powering them up to reduce the scratchiness of the volume pot during my listening sessions.


Deoxit works, important tho to use the more expensive pure liquid and not the watered down spray. May need to apply more than once.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Deoxit is what I use to clean tube pins and my vintage receiver pots. These cheap pots in some of these new drop amps and of course the LP. Deoxit will rid static. It won't remove the poor quality of the pot. You'd be surprised how big a factor the pot is in a circuit.


----------



## sennfan83261

ruinedx said:


> Worth noting these units have 5yr warranty so all this stuff (imbalance, scratchy pot, etc) should be covered by warranty in that time period for free.


AFAIK, the CTH and the 789 are covered by a one-year warranty by Drop.


----------



## greenkiwi

I wonder if there is a way to decrease the gain? That would likely solve many peoples issues.


----------



## LCMusicLover

greenkiwi said:


> I wonder if there is a way to decrease the gain? That would likely solve many peoples issues.


Nothing in the device.  I've been using a passive preamp to attenuate volume from my DACs to the LP. Early on, the descriptions mentioned switchable gain, but that didn't make it into the final production amps.

Sorry


----------



## greenkiwi

LCMusicLover said:


> Nothing in the device.  I've been using a passive preamp to attenuate volume from my DACs to the LP. Early on, the descriptions mentioned switchable gain, but that didn't make it into the final production amps.
> 
> Sorry



I was thinking/hoping the the modders might have found some options.


----------



## Shane D

greenkiwi said:


> I was thinking/hoping the the modders might have found some options.



My personal solution is running a DAC with a volume control (SMSL SU-8).


----------



## Skooks

I received my *LPS-36 Low noise Linear Power Supply for Monolith Liquid Platinum Cavalli* *Headphone Amp* yesterday from the Chinese manufacturer... it's been hooked up and making music for about 20 hours now... really good sound!  It is very well built and It definitely makes the sound of the LP better in all aspects... "Just what the doctor ordered!" Definitely worth the price!  
I will wait until I burn it in for 150 hours and then I will give a more detailed review on how it powers the LP.
My system:  2018 Mac mini with Audirvana Plus > balanced Topping D90 DAC >  balanquid Platinum Headphone Amp w/ LPS-36 LPS >  Hifiman Arya Planar Headphones > my ears.


----------



## Slade01

Skooks said:


> I received my *LPS-36 Low noise Linear Power Supply for Monolith Liquid Platinum Cavalli* *Headphone Amp* yesterday from the Chinese manufacturer... it's been hooked up and making music for about 20 hours now... really good sound!  It is very well built and It definitely makes the sound of the LP better in all aspects... "Just what the doctor ordered!" Definitely worth the price!
> I will wait until I burn it in for 150 hours and then I will give a more detailed review on how it powers the LP.
> My system:  2018 Mac mini with Audirvana Plus > balanced Topping D90 DAC >  balanquid Platinum Headphone Amp w/ LPS-36 LPS >  Hifiman Arya Planar Headphones > my ears.



Thanks for the impressions of using the LP with an LPS.  I've read in other forums/places where using an LPS did not make any difference in sound when using it with the liquid platinum.  So this is truely a YMMV situation.


----------



## Skooks

Were any of the LPS's that they said makes no difference the LPS-36, which was made specifically for the LP? That would be important to know.

Anyway... I'll just enjoy my music... regardless what other folks say!


----------



## Guidostrunk

How long did it take for the LPS to arrive? I have that exact one in the watch bin on ebay. 


Skooks said:


> I received my *LPS-36 Low noise Linear Power Supply for Monolith Liquid Platinum Cavalli* *Headphone Amp* yesterday from the Chinese manufacturer... it's been hooked up and making music for about 20 hours now... really good sound!  It is very well built and It definitely makes the sound of the LP better in all aspects... "Just what the doctor ordered!" Definitely worth the price!
> I will wait until I burn it in for 150 hours and then I will give a more detailed review on how it powers the LP.
> My system:  2018 Mac mini with Audirvana Plus > balanced Topping D90 DAC >  balanquid Platinum Headphone Amp w/ LPS-36 LPS >  Hifiman Arya Planar Headphones > my ears.


----------



## Slade01

Skooks said:


> Were any of the LPS's that they said makes no difference the LPS-36, which was made specifically for the LP? That would be important to know.
> 
> Anyway... I'll just enjoy my music... regardless what other folks say!



Not that I can see.  Primary testing was with a bench LPS (BK Precision).  I do trust his numbers (he was the one initially got me on using an LPS especially using it with the cavalli tube hybrid where it made a huge difference)  -- he was supposed to test a similar LPS from China that was made for the LP, but not sure if it ever happened.  Oh well.  It's cool, i'm happy that it improved the sound nonetheless.  Let us know how it goes after the full burn in time!  I had been eyeing the same LPS too for the liquid platinum. Lol.


----------



## Skooks

Guidostrunk said:


> How long did it take for the LPS to arrive? I have that exact one in the watch bin on ebay.


I ordered the LPS-36 on August 22nd and received it on September 3rd... little bit less than 2 weeks.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Skooks said:


> I received my *LPS-36 Low noise Linear Power Supply for Monolith Liquid Platinum Cavalli* *Headphone Amp* yesterday from the Chinese manufacturer... it's been hooked up and making music for about 20 hours now... really good sound!  It is very well built and It definitely makes the sound of the LP better in all aspects... "Just what the doctor ordered!" Definitely worth the price!
> I will wait until I burn it in for 150 hours and then I will give a more detailed review on how it powers the LP.
> My system:  2018 Mac mini with Audirvana Plus > balanced Topping D90 DAC >  balanquid Platinum Headphone Amp w/ LPS-36 LPS >  Hifiman Arya Planar Headphones > my ears.


This one?

https://www.ebay.com/i/132862087667
(also on AliExpress)


----------



## Skooks

Yep... that one!  And let me just say... I don't know the manufacturer... I do know they responded to me when I asked when it was gonna ship... so that's good... but, I do NOT like Communist China... and I wish more things were made in our USA.  But, that being said... this LPS-36 is a good product for us LP owners!


----------



## ruinedx

Skooks said:


> Yep... that one!  And let me just say... I don't know the manufacturer... I do know they responded to me when I asked when it was gonna ship... so that's good... but, I do NOT like Communist China... and I wish more things were made in our USA.  But, that being said... this LPS-36 is a good product for us LP owners!



If you are going to recommend a product you might want to remind people that product may damage the amp

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...m-technical-measurements.894843/post-14641335


----------



## Skooks

I didn't know I needed to remind people when there was nothing I had that said what you have shown me.  But, the LPS-36 was made for only the LP.  This is my 2nd day with it and I have had not one glitch... it is working perfectly well.  It was recommended to me by another Head-Fier... so I bought it.  I'll let everyone know if I run into a problem. But, your thread does not say anything about the LPS-36... it just speaks of generic linear power supply units.  I would never have bought a generic LPS... even before you sent me this. But, thanks for your concern.


----------



## ruinedx (Sep 4, 2020)

Skooks said:


> I didn't know I needed to remind people when there was nothing I had that said what you have shown me.  But, the LPS-36 was made for only the LP.  This is my 2nd day with it and I have had not one glitch... it is working perfectly well.  It was recommended to me by another Head-Fier... so I bought it.  I'll let everyone know if I run into a problem. But, your thread does not say anything about the LPS-36... it just speaks of generic linear power supply units.  I would never have bought a generic LPS... even before you sent me this. But, thanks for your concern.


It's made for the LP by who?

Here is Alex Cavalli's (designer of the amp) post recommending *NOT* to use the LPS-36 specifically with Liquid Platinum when he was linked to it as it may damage the amp over time:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...platinum-by-alex-cavalli.876406/post-14693400


----------



## Guidostrunk

Yep. He never specifically singled out the LPS-36 in his post. Basically a sweeping generalization of not using an LPS period. 
With that said. Atomic Bob has a whole thread using various LPS with a sequence of using one properly. Because of that sequence and if not followed it will damage the amp thus not recommended by either. 
It's also not recommended to use tubes with adapters. Lol. 

Like @Skooks said. We appreciate your concern lol


----------



## ruinedx

Guidostrunk said:


> Yep. He never specifically singled out the LPS-36 in his post. Basically a sweeping generalization of not using an LPS period.
> With that said. Atomic Bob has a whole thread using various LPS with a sequence of using one properly. Because of that sequence and if not followed it will damage the amp thus not recommended by either.
> It's also not recommended to use tubes with adapters. Lol.
> 
> Like @Skooks said. We appreciate your concern lol


Hey I'm fine if you want to do whatever with your amp but when the guy who engineered the amp says not to use the specific product you are using when it was showed to him because of "definite risk" of damage, it is something you should warn others of when recommending the product as they might not know.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Doesn't care what you do with your amp but proceeds to tell you what to do with your amp. Lol


----------



## Skooks

runeight said:


> Keeping in mind UsoppNoKami's post, I still have to recommend against using an LPS, as per earlier comments from AtomicBob and me.
> 
> One has to ask, what advantage am I getting when I use an LPS? Most of the advantage that one thinks one is getting is higher current capacity and lower noise.
> 
> ...


Lower noise and total black background is what I think I'm hearing with the LPS-36.


----------



## Skooks

runeight said:


> Keeping in mind UsoppNoKami's post, I still have to recommend against using an LPS, as per earlier comments from AtomicBob and me.
> 
> One has to ask, what advantage am I getting when I use an LPS? Most of the advantage that one thinks one is getting is higher current capacity and lower noise.
> 
> ...


Have you SPECIFICALLY tried the *LPS-36* with the LP.  I didn't know I was gonna raise such a firestorm, but I guarantee you that I will make reports to the community every 100 hours of use... and I will definitely tell the community how my LP is behaving with the LPS-36.
Why didn't you raise a ruckus at all of the LP owners who are using tube adaptors and risers... especially the adaptors to use tubes not specified by you???


----------



## ruinedx (Sep 5, 2020)

Skooks said:


> Have you SPECIFICALLY tried the *LPS-36* with the LP.  I didn't know I was gonna raise such a firestorm, but I guarantee you that I will make reports to the community every 100 hours of use... and I will definitely tell the community how my LP is behaving with the LPS-36.
> Why didn't you raise a ruckus at all of the LP owners who are using tube adaptors and risers... especially the adaptors to use tubes not specified by you???



You know you are quoting the guy who designed the amp, right? Given he engineered it he likely does not have to "try" something to know if it's a good or bad thing. I am not sure why you are putting more faith in some unknown generic brand trying to make a buck on eBay than the guy who made the amp.

Re: tubes he also did state not to use certain out of spec tubes in another post.

Also this is not a firestorm, I was just requesting a courtesy disclaimer that when you recommend a product that the designer of the amp specifically said has "definite risk" of damaging the amp that you let people know of the risk.  And that way they don't get pissed at you (or Monoprice) if their amp dies in 3 months after using the LPS-36. I have no issue with your use of this product on your own equipment but if you choose to recommend it to others, folks should be informed w/ a warning so they realize the potential damage it could cause.

IIRC in atomicbobs case using a LPS eventually resulted in the tube heater control circuit being damaged and the tubes being on at all times when the amp was plugged in, even when it was switched off.


----------



## Skooks (Sep 7, 2020)

I have now used the *LPS-36 Linear Power Supply with the LP Headphone Amp* for 100 hours.

*Disclaimer*:  I am not trying to get anyone to buy the LPS-36, rather I am just posting my opinion of what it does for the LP according to my stock ears.  I have no idea if the LP will last another 100 hours... or for a year or two or whatever. I also did not know if the good caps mod would shortcut the life of the LP, but I sure like what that mod does for the sound of the LP... how about all you who have bought that mod? I don't know the Head-Fier who does the mod... I've not personally met him or read a resume of his ability to modify an amp like the LP. I guess I took a chance... but, I sure don't lose sleep over whether my LP will make it past this day.  To me, it's exciting to be able to tweak out a little more from this already good amp... and the caps mod and the LPS-36 sure does that in Spades... in my humble opinion!!

It's about like when I was a USMC aviator... why not be satisfied landing my A4 Skyhawk on an 8,000' concrete stationary runway... why have to go try to hit a moving 300' runway bobing up and down in the ocean? That's a lot more dangerous... it could have sure shortened my life span... but it sure was exciting!! But, I don't recommend you trying it... just take my word for what it did for me!

OK... now for my 100 hour report on using the LPS-36 made by a manufacturer I don't know personally... just like I didn't know Dr. Cavalli personally... just had a Head-Fier to tell me there is such a mod made specifically for the LP. So, I went to eBay and bought it.  So far, I'm sure glad I did!  To my ears... but maybe not to yours... the sound took on a blacker background with no noise at all. It also made a more definite focus... no fuzziness whatsoever... tight imaging with no overhang between instruments or voices. It really made an impact on the bass... very well defined. But, I also hear a little more definition on the upper end.

After listening for about 25 hours, I swapped out the tubes. What I had as my favorite before the LPS-36, is now not my favorite... so be prepared to do more tube rolling if you go for the LPS-36. Tubes are another thing that is personal... everybody has their own liking.  OK... why not be satisfied with the stock tubes that came with the LP?  Did Dr. Cavalli pick them out as being the very best for his LP? I have no idea.

I am really happy with the sound I now have coming from Audirvana music program on a 2018 Mac mini, going to a Topping D90 DAC, going to the LP Headphone Amp, going to Hifiman Arya Headphones, going to my ears and brain.  Does that mean that Dr. Cavalli fell short in his design of the LP? Absolutely not!!  I appreciate his design... and I wish he had manufactured it also. I could have lived with the LP as it was straight out of the box... a very good tube hybrid headphone amp! *But, it's even better now! 

Warning: * as others have said, it is most important to start up by first starting up the LPS-36, and then start up the LP. And, in shutting down, it is most important to shut down the LP first, then shut down the LPS-36.

And, I'll tell you folks a little secret... my wife wishes I would leave things alone. She says, "Honey, why can't you be satisfied with what you have?" Well, I've been married to this woman for 57 years... and I'm still trying to tweak her!  I think she is better now than what she was straight out of the box!  *Semper Fi*...😜


----------



## hemtmaker

Skooks said:


> I have now used the *LPS-36 Linear Power Supply with the LP Headphone Amp* for 100 hours.
> 
> *Disclaimer*:  I am not trying to get anyone to buy the LPS-36, rather I am just posting my opinion of what it does for the LP according to my stock ears.  I have no idea if the LP will last another 100 hours... or for a year or two or whatever. I also did not know if the good caps mod would shortcut the life of the LP, but I sure like what that mod does for the sound of the LP... how about all you who have bought that mod? I don't know the Head-Fier who does the mod... I've not personally met him or read a resume of his ability to modify an amp like the LP. I guess I took a chance... but, I sure don't lose sleep over whether my LP will make it past this day.  To me, it's exciting to be able to tweak out a little more from this already good amp... and the caps mod and the LPS-36 sure does that in Spades... in my humble opinion!!
> 
> ...


At least you are in a position of tweaking your wife. My wife is trying to tweak me! Enjoy for liquid platinum


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hahahahahaha!
 


Skooks said:


> I have now used the *LPS-36 Linear Power Supply with the LP Headphone Amp* for 100 hours.
> 
> *Disclaimer*:  I am not trying to get anyone to buy the LPS-36, rather I am just posting my opinion of what it does for the LP according to my stock ears.  I have no idea if the LP will last another 100 hours... or for a year or two or whatever. I also did not know if the good caps mod would shortcut the life of the LP, but I sure like what that mod does for the sound of the LP... how about all you who have bought that mod? I don't know the Head-Fier who does the mod... I've not personally met him or read a resume of his ability to modify an amp like the LP. I guess I took a chance... but, I sure don't lose sleep over whether my LP will make it past this day.  To me, it's exciting to be able to tweak out a little more from this already good amp... and the caps mod and the LPS-36 sure does that in Spades... in my humble opinion!!
> 
> ...


----------



## povidlo

Joined LP club yesterday!

Stayed up reading the thread, into page 89 so far... just great stuff from Dr. Cavalli and the community. Thank you!

Using SE, and waiting for Drop XLR to 2.mm adapter to come in to go balanced; EarBuddy to give IEMs more room on the volume pot.  

One weird thing: power cord doesn't appear to go all the way in. Seems like there's about 0.5 cm left to go in. Amp is ON and working no problem. Is this normal? Or, am I not inserting it properly?


----------



## DowdyPrime

My power plug looks exactly the same. I assumed this was intended or, at least, a benign use of available but not ideal parts.


----------



## ruinedx

povidlo said:


> Joined LP club yesterday!
> 
> Stayed up reading the thread, into page 89 so far... just great stuff from Dr. Cavalli and the community. Thank you!
> 
> ...



This is normal for this style of ac adapter


----------



## Slade01

Skooks said:


> It's about like when I was a USMC aviator... why not be satisfied landing my A4 Skyhawk on an 8,000' concrete stationary runway... why have to go try to hit a moving 300' runway bobing up and down in the ocean? That's a lot more dangerous... it could have sure shortened my life span... but it sure was exciting!! But, I don't recommend you trying it... just take my word for what it did for me!
> 
> 
> After listening for about 25 hours, I swapped out the tubes. What I had as my favorite before the LPS-36, is now not my favorite... so be prepared to do more tube rolling if you go for the LPS-36. Tubes are another thing that is personal... everybody has their own liking.  OK... why not be satisfied with the stock tubes that came with the LP?  Did Dr. Cavalli pick them out as being the very best for his LP? I have no idea.



First of thank you very much for your service.  I have to say that the A4 Skyhawk is an incredible aircraft.   When I was a kid (my dad was in the navy), the only times I got to see the A4 Skyhawk in action was when the Blue Angels flew them and at NAS Oceana (has one on display from the VFC-12).  Extremely versatile and capable, just very impressive.

Back to the LP - when you swapped out the tubes, what tubes did you have, and were those tubes you settled on after the caps mod?  What tubes are you running now that you running the LPS-36?  I'm trying to get a feel on tube rolling with the platinum.  I know the (YMMV) applies of course, but am curious nonetheless. Thanks!


----------



## Skooks

Guidostrunk said:


> Hahahahahaha!


Hey Guidostrunk... it's not funny... I take my wife tweaking very seriously!!


----------



## Marlowe (Sep 8, 2020)

povidlo said:


> One weird thing: power cord doesn't appear to go all the way in. Seems like there's about 0.5 cm left to go in. Amp is ON and working no problem. Is this normal? Or, am I not inserting it properly?


My power cord is similar, though I think it goes in just a bit deeper. I asked the same question when I got the LP but received no responses. I've been using it since May with no problems.



ruinedx said:


> This is normal for this style of ac adapter



Really? I have plenty of similar external power supplies. All insert pretty much flush with the jack except this one.


----------



## Skooks

Slade01 said:


> First of thank you very much for your service.  I have to say that the A4 Skyhawk is an incredible aircraft.   When I was a kid (my dad was in the navy), the only times I got to see the A4 Skyhawk in action was when the Blue Angels flew them and at NAS Oceana (has one on display from the VFC-12).  Extremely versatile and capable, just very impressive.
> 
> Back to the LP - when you swapped out the tubes, what tubes did you have, and were those tubes you settled on after the caps mod?  What tubes are you running now that you running the LPS-36?  I'm trying to get a feel on tube rolling with the platinum.  I know the (YMMV) applies of course, but am curious nonetheless. Thanks!


Before going to the LPS-36, I found the Telefunken E88CC to be my favorite.  Now, using the LPS-36, I find the Gold Lion Genalex E88CC/6922 to be my favorite.

Hey, let me tell you one more thrilling thing flying the A4 Skyhawk, besides trapping on a carrier deck and being shot off... it was practicing our atomic bomb delivery. Now, mind you, I never had a live atomic bomb strapped underneath the belly of the A4... and nobody ever has... but, we used a small practice bomb that supposedly had the same flight characteristics as a nuke. I approached the target flying 50' off the deck at close to 600 knots... I forget what the actual speed had to be... I used a "labs" indicator to fly in on that instrument... no visual contact, because in actually delivering a nuke, I would have been under a metal shield because of radiation after the explosion. When reaching the initial delivery point, I would execute a high G pull up... a loop... pickle the nuke off at just the right point in that loop, and the nuke would sling up and out.  I would continue the loop until sharply rolling out at 50' above the ground and flying away from the bomb. SUPPOSEDLY, the blast from the nuke would travel out over me. A very exciting thing to practice!! I'm thankful, I, nor anyone else, has had to try it out for real!! 

Back to good music...


----------



## sennfan83261

Skooks said:


> I have now used the *LPS-36 Linear Power Supply with the LP Headphone Amp* for 100 hours.
> 
> *Disclaimer*:  I am not trying to get anyone to buy the LPS-36, rather I am just posting my opinion of what it does for the LP according to my stock ears.  I have no idea if the LP will last another 100 hours... or for a year or two or whatever. I also did not know if the good caps mod would shortcut the life of the LP, but I sure like what that mod does for the sound of the LP... how about all you who have bought that mod? I don't know the Head-Fier who does the mod... I've not personally met him or read a resume of his ability to modify an amp like the LP. I guess I took a chance... but, I sure don't lose sleep over whether my LP will make it past this day.  To me, it's exciting to be able to tweak out a little more from this already good amp... and the caps mod and the LPS-36 sure does that in Spades... in my humble opinion!!


----------



## sennfan83261 (Sep 11, 2020)

Been really liking the LP with my planars (LCD-2 rev. 2 prefazor pictured below). Even my HE-6 sounds somewhat decent, moreso than the 789 at least but less so than a properly spec'd speaker amp. Between the CTH and LP, I feel that one can get the CTH to sound pretty tubey (see 6C8G below), whereas the LP sounds cleaner and more authoritative than the CTH with a more defined and detailed bass; the bass of the CTH may be considered as more one-noteish. I like both, as they offer different flavors. The LP definitely runs hotter than the CTH. Anyways, I prefer to listen to both of them over my THX AAA 789. The second picture below is my big failure to roll the 6C8G with the LP = hiss city probably due to the close proximity of the two tubes, lol.


----------



## rayofsi

following this, any differences between the 1.08 and 1.10 versions? asides from some cosmetics?


----------



## sahmen

So according to present forum consensus, which are the bestest of best 12AU7 tubes for the LP, modded and/or unmodded. I am only referring to present reigning contenders for the title of "best."  I know that such contenders could change at any time with ongoing/future tube research and discoveries.

BTW, in case this matters, I like my sound to be airy, detailed, and well-extended at both ends, without any harshness or fatigue. Thick and creamy mids are also welcome, but their absence is not a deal breaker, as long as those mids are not "thin."


----------



## rayofsi (Sep 14, 2020)

. Mispost


----------



## Shane D

New products are starting to appear. I got an email today that the Liquid Spark DAC is now available.


----------



## Clemmaster

Liquid Gold is also available.


----------



## ra990

LP DAC was pushed back till 10/31, interesting.


----------



## Shane D

Clemmaster said:


> Liquid Gold is also available.



I never even noticed! Very cool. Would like to hear some reviews. I am more interested in the Liquid Platinum DAC though.


----------



## sennfan83261

Shane D said:


> I never even noticed! Very cool. Would like to hear some reviews. I am more interested in the Liquid Platinum DAC though.


Cavalli is known for his amps. I don't recall him being involved all that much with DAC designs back in the day.


----------



## ksorota

sahmen said:


> So according to present forum consensus, which are the bestest of best 12AU7 tubes for the LP, modded and/or unmodded. I am only referring to present reigning contenders for the title of "best."  I know that such contenders could change at any time with ongoing/future tube research and discoveries.
> 
> BTW, in case this matters, I like my sound to be airy, detailed, and well-extended at both ends, without any harshness or fatigue. Thick and creamy mids are also welcome, but their absence is not a deal breaker, as long as those mids are not "thin."


Easily the best tubes I have heard are the 7730’s in various configurations (halo, D, long or short plate) 
They have a presentation that i think is best described as cinematic. It’s extended and airy as you desire but are not really very thick in the mids. They produce a very wide soundstage that brings the LP to another level. Not the strongest bass, but clear and satisfying.


----------



## Mudshark (Sep 18, 2020)

I bought an LP on launch back in 2018.  It gave up the ghost last week while I was listening.  I heard a pop in the cans I was using and the amp went dead.  A chemical-like burning smell emanated from the inside of the amp.

I just received a replacement LP from Monoprice (great service!).  I had been thinking of selling it NIB, but then I saw some posts about mods for the caps and volume pot, and other posts indicating that there have been some design changes to the stock pot.  What if any differences should I expect between an original LP and a current production version?  Thanks.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Mudshark said:


> I bought an LP on launch back in 2018.  It gave up the ghost last week while I was listening.  I heard a pop in the cans I was using and the amp went dead.  A chemical-like burning smell emanated from the inside of the amp.
> 
> I just received a replacement LP from Monoprice (great service!).  I had been thinking of selling it NIB, but then I saw some posts about mods for the caps and volume pot, and other posts indicating that there have been some design changes to the stock pot.  What if any differences should I expect between an original LP and a current production version?  Thanks.


Personally, I've had 3, and never heard any significant difference between them -- certainly nothing 'major'. I do think the volume pot on my current amp tracks better at low volume than my first one did.  Doesn't matter much to me though as I just set the amp volume to 12 o'clock and use a passive preamp to attenuate.

I do think the caps mod was an improvement, but since I couldn't A/B before and after, my opinion probably carries little autorità.

.


----------



## ksorota

Mudshark said:


> I bought an LP on launch back in 2018.  It gave up the ghost last week while I was listening.  I heard a pop in the cans I was using and the amp went dead.  A chemical-like burning smell emanated from the inside of the amp.
> 
> I just received a replacement LP from Monoprice (great service!).  I had been thinking of selling it NIB, but then I saw some posts about mods for the caps and volume pot, and other posts indicating that there have been some design changes to the stock pot.  What if any differences should I expect between an original LP and a current production version?  Thanks.



I do not think that their has been any update or change to the stock volume pot.  All the units that I have opened up have included the same stock pot from the original release cycle.  The changes people are referring to are related to volume matching between channels.  Their have been mixed experiences...some have very poor volume matching at low listening levels, almost all seem to have some level of channel imbalance at the lowest volumes, but it is not always an issue. It would have been nice if monoprice woud have used a higher quality pot, but it was not meant to be.  At regular volumes most sound just fine.  

Differences between the OG and newer production should not be discernible but it would be a good idea to run it a bit to make sure your volume pot has good channel tracking. Be a better value for the buyer if you can verify.


----------



## Mudshark

Thanks for the replies, @LCMusicLover and @ksorota.  My primary concern is that my original LP went up in smoke suddenly after only two years of relatively light use, the entire time plugged into a Bryston BIT-20 power isolation transformer.  Monoprice did not ask any questions when I reported the problem and they sent me a prepaid shipping label to send the amp back to them via *FedEx Priority Overnight*.  The amp traveled @ 2,900 miles -- from Northern New England to Rancho Cucamonga, California -- in less than 24 hours.  I deduced from all this that Monoprice is likely familiar with whatever it is that cooked my original LP.  I hope that whatever it was has been remedied in current production models.


----------



## Skooks (Sep 18, 2020)

sennfan83261 said:


>



I have put about 200 hours on my Liquid Platinum Headphone Amp with the LPS-36 Linear Power Supply.  I can happily report that my headphone system is sounding GREAT... not one single problem!  As I said before, it has a silent background and transparent presentation.  It is the BEST sound I've had with a headphone system!
But, let me also say one more time, because I think this is very important in using the LPS-36 with the LP...

• Each time when starting up, I first push the startup button on the LPS-36 and let it bring the tubes up. I watch the red LED on the LP go from red to white... then, I push the startup button on the LP and let it warm up before playing music.
• When powering down, first turn the LP off with its power button... then, turn the LPS-36 off with its power button.

This is very important for safe operation with the LPS-36.

BTW... this is my 2nd mod of the LP.  My first was the caps mod.

Enjoy!


----------



## Skooks

One more thing of interest to some... my wife tweaking project is coming along, but not without a few glitches!  If you try this tweaking, do so with utmost caution!


----------



## sahmen

Skooks said:


> I have put about 300 hours on my Liquid Platinum Headphone Amp with the LPS-36 Linear Power Supply.  I can happily report that my headphone system is sounding GREAT... not one single problem!  As I said before, it has a silent background and transparent presentation.  It is the BEST sound I've had with a headphone system!
> But, let me also say one more time, because I think this is very important in using the LPS-36 with the LP...
> 
> • Each time when starting up, I first push the startup button on the LPS-36 and let it bring the tubes up. I watch the red LED on the LP go from red to white... then, I push the startup button on the LP and let it warm up before playing music.
> ...



I just need to make sure I am getting this correctly. If the LPS start up button should go on first, fire up the tubes and the LP's led from red to white before one may start up the LP itself, then it means that the tubes and the LP's led can be started and whipped up to readiness even with the LP itself off (with the power-on push button of the LP in the "off" position). Or put differently the LPS-36 can independently activate the tubes and the LP's Led without any help (or power) from the LP?...  I am asking because this is important, as I just received my LPS-36, and I am about to try it on the LP. Besides, I am a little surprised by this, if your post is saying what I think it is saying.

Let me know.


----------



## sahmen

Skooks said:


> One more thing of interest to some... my wife tweaking project is coming along, but not without a few glitches!  If you try this tweaking, do so with utmost caution!



Or just don't try this at home


----------



## LCMusicLover

Skooks said:


> One more thing of interest to some... my wife tweaking project is coming along, but not without a few glitches!  If you try this tweaking, do so with utmost caution!


Ah, took me back to the good old days:

http://www.hep.caltech.edu/~arakitin/jokes/wife.html


----------



## Skooks

sahmen said:


> I just need to make sure I am getting this correctly. If the LPS start up button should go on first, fire up the tubes and the LP's led from red to white before one may start up the LP itself, then it means that the tubes and the LP's led can be started and whipped up to readiness even with the LP itself off (with the power-on push button of the LP in the "off" position). Or put differently the LPS-36 can independently activate the tubes and the LP's Led without any help (or power) from the LP?...  I am asking because this is important, as I just received my LPS-36, and I am about to try it on the LP. Besides, I am a little surprised by this, if your post is saying what I think it is saying.
> 
> Let me know.


You have it right... firing up the LPS-36 does put power to the LP and the red LED comes on along with the tubes lighting up... and after a few minutes the LED goes from red to white, but music will not play until you completely turn on the LP by pushing its power button.


----------



## povidlo

Need help please :
having an issue running LP with my AK SR25 dap. Using 2.5mm to XLR cable, the sound is distorted. When muted and turning the knob past noon, there's a loud buzzing noise through either SE or BAL output. It's louder through BAL output. 

Tried reducing line-out on the dap from 4V to 2.5V but it didn't make a difference. As soon as the cable is plugged into the dap, buzzing occurs. It gets worse once the screen is turned on.

It doesn't happen when connecting the dap to LP with 3.5mm to RCA cable. 

So thought it's a faulty cable, or maybe faulty BAL input on LP. But used the same cable with 4.4mm to 2.5mm adapter and connected Paw S1 to LP, and no buzzing.

Also, daisy-chained SR25 2.5mm to 2.5mm to iFi xCan and then the same 2.5mm to XLR cable to LP, and no buzzing.

Same buzzing noise can be heard if the 2.5mm to XLR cable is not connected to any device and 2.5mm connector is out. 

Maybe some sort of a grounding issue? It doesn't make sense to me that straight SR25 to LP connection doesn't work. SR25 seems to have a quality 4V output on balanced and I haven't observed this issue stacking it with an amp in 2.5mm to 2.5mm way.

This cable: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000159895454.html


----------



## wormsdriver (Sep 18, 2020)

povidlo said:


> Need help please :
> having an issue running LP with my AK SR25 dap. Using 2.5mm to XLR cable, the sound is distorted. When muted and turning the knob past noon, there's a loud buzzing noise through either SE or BAL output. It's louder through BAL output.
> 
> Tried reducing line-out on the dap from 4V to 2.5V but it didn't make a difference. As soon as the cable is plugged into the dap, buzzing occurs. It gets worse once the screen is turned on.
> ...


Ak daps need (or is recommended) to use the 3.5mm socket on the dap as ground. You need a cable like this:



Edit: the ground sleeve of the 3.5mm is connected to the ground of the 3pin xlr jacks


----------



## povidlo

wormsdriver said:


> Ak daps need (or is recommended) to use the 3.5mm socket on the dap as ground. You need a cable like this:
> 
> Edit: the ground sleeve of the 3.5mm is connected to the ground of the 3pin xlr jacks



Much appreciated!

Contacted the seller on Ali and they will ship me a replacement cable that includes a dedicated 3.5mm connector for grounding.


----------



## Zulkr9

Man the failure rates are whats keeping me from purchasing this amp. Also I wanted to know whether buying open box is a good idea, I heard that there is a chance that accessories might not be present, so if I do get one is there a chance that I might not receive the adapter or something like that, tempted to get the open box, going for a really good price


----------



## ruinedx

Zulkr9 said:


> Man the failure rates are whats keeping me from purchasing this amp. Also I wanted to know whether buying open box is a good idea, I heard that there is a chance that accessories might not be present, so if I do get one is there a chance that I might not receive the adapter or something like that, tempted to get the open box, going for a really good price


As long as you get a new one they are fine, they revised the design. Dont buy open box


----------



## Zulkr9

ruinedx said:


> As long as you get a new one they are fine, they revised the design. Dont buy open box


Anyone know what the design revisions were also are the open boxes old ones ?


----------



## ruinedx

Zulkr9 said:


> Anyone know what the design revisions were


1. Improved power supply
2. Improved channel balance in volume knob



> also are the open boxes old ones ?



That's the risk you have no idea and no one can guarantee what you get


----------



## Shane D

Zulkr9 said:


> Man the failure rates are whats keeping me from purchasing this amp. Also I wanted to know whether buying open box is a good idea, I heard that there is a chance that accessories might not be present, so if I do get one is there a chance that I might not receive the adapter or something like that, tempted to get the open box, going for a really good price



I bought an open-box Liquid Spark and it was perfect. And at a killer price!
I bought the Liquid Platinum at the sale price of $600.00. Just before the price floor disintegrated and while the Canadian dollar was sucking. My landed cost in Canada was $1,050.00! 

I regret nothing. The amp is awesome! I just plugged in my Sundara's and they sound great, as usual.


----------



## povidlo

ruinedx said:


> 1. Improved power supply
> 2. Improved channel balance in volume knob
> 
> 
> ...



Do you know if there's a way to tell visually? Does the wall wart have a different model number?


----------



## sahmen

sahmen said:


> You know what's weird!  I also got the mod done on my original LP, and when it came  back I was a little startled by the extra "edge"  and "rawness" added to the notes, and also  by the apparently enhanced detail retrieval, and I confess that I have caught myself second guessing myself, regarding what to think about the mod and its effects :  Was it a good thing, or maybe too much of a good thing, so to speak?  I have not been able to answer this question satisfactorily  or definitively until now, but even then, I think it is better to say that I am only *beginning* to get the answer I am looking for, and that the process is not yet complete. This hesitation or wavering between the two options is to be expected, since I  was not among those who initially found anything  to be wrong with the sonic status quo of the og LP before going for the mod.  I opted to go for the mod, because I found its "early adopters" to be quite persuasive in touting its benefits, and that was, at least enough to pique the curiosity of the "mad scientist" half of my audiophile brain, so to speak.
> 
> Now as I said before, since getting the modded LP back, I have not completely stopped wondering whether I liked the new sound of it, or whether I found it to be too much of a good thing.  Well I happened to take advantage of the $484 sale, and the arrival of the new unit is allowing me the opportunity to compare the modded with the un-modded sound, and guess what I am now thinking:
> 
> ...



Okay Update and "confession" time :

The more I listen to the modded LP, the more the un-modded version (the one from the recent $484 sale) becomes unlistenable. So as of today, I'm deciding to get the second one also modded.  Mind you, my feeling that this LP is one of the bestest-best valued amps for under $1000 (actually within any price bracket, period) has not changed, with the mod... If anything the mod has reinforced that opinion.  I tried to give the new un-modded version another opportunity to prove its sq credentials against the modded version, but my ears have finally decided in favor of the modded version, so I am moving on.  No hard feelings.

and...The mad scientist half of my audiophile brain is very pleased.


----------



## Zachik

sahmen said:


> Okay Update and "confession" time :
> 
> The more I listen to the modded LP, the more the un-modded version (the one from the recent $484 sale) becomes unlistenable. So as of today, I'm deciding to get the second one also modded.  Mind you, my feeling that this LP is one of the bestest-best valued amps for under $1000 (actually within any price bracket, period) has not changed, with the mod... If anything the mod has reinforced that opinion.  I tried to give the new un-modded version another opportunity to prove its sq credentials against the modded version, but my ears have finally decided in favor of the modded version, so I am moving on.  No hard feelings.
> 
> and...The mad scientist half of my audiophile brain is very pleased.


Interesting... I was going to send my LP for the cap mod, but your (and one other) opinion about the mod making the LP bass a little bit lighter (less bassy), and also the mod adding extra "edge" and "rawness" to the notes - got me worried I would not like it as much as the current (original) sound signature!  Now, you're saying the mod is better than the original in all respects??? or did you just get used to the extra edge, and do not miss the extra bass as much?


----------



## Guidostrunk

I don't find the bass lighter at all. To me it has more extension, impact and slam. A lot cleaner as well. I was considering selling the LP before it popped in my brain and gambled on the mod.


----------



## sahmen (Sep 19, 2020)

Zachik said:


> Interesting... I was going to send my LP for the cap mod, but your (and one other) opinion about the mod making the LP bass a little bit lighter (less bassy), and also the mod adding extra "edge" and "rawness" to the notes - got me worried I would not like it as much as the current (original) sound signature!  Now, you're saying the mod is better than the original in all respects??? or did you just get used to the extra edge, and do not miss the extra bass as much?



After additional listening and comparison of the modded and the un-modded version, what I called "rawness" or the "extra edge" of the modded version now sound like simply "cleanliness", and more "cleanliness"...  That cleanliness is simply making the un-modded version sound "veiled" at the top, and just muddy and boomy in the lower regions (again, that was not how I saw the LP before listening to the modded version). Yes, I remember mentioning that I missed the apparently "larger" or "thicker" footprint of lower notes on the un-modded version.  However, after more listening, "larger" and "thicker" now only sound like "boomier" and "muddier,"  unfortunately.  To be fair, I never found the lower end notes of the modded version to be "lean" or "thin" in any egregious sense They just seemed to have slightly less large footprints, as compared to lower notes on the og version. On the other hand, they have succeeded in making the apparently extra "oomph" on the lower notes of the og version sound like mere "bloat," which I really do not care for anymore. Is this all subjective listening city?  Absolutely!  The experience has just schooled my ears, and my preferences have followed.  This is not the first time that has happened.  It is how I learned to school my ears about the impact of aftermarket cables, and also that of reducing various forms of electrical noises on audio signals.  Might your mileage vary?  Absolutely! Do I still recognize and respect the sonic integrity of the OG LP, even if I now prefer to listen to the modded version?  Absolutely! 

I just couldn't "unhear" the modded version, once I heard it.  I could easily have lived with the OG version if I had never heard the modded one.


----------



## Zachik

Guidostrunk said:


> I don't find the bass lighter at all. To me it has more extension, impact and slam. A lot cleaner as well. I was considering selling the LP before it popped in my brain and gambled on the mod.





sahmen said:


> After additional listening and comparison of the modded and the un-modded version, what I called "rawness" or the "extra edge" of the modded version now sound like simply "cleanliness", and more "cleanliness"...  That cleanliness is simply making the un-modded version sound "veiled" at the top, and just muddy and boomy in the lower regions (again, that was not how I saw the LP before listening to the modded version). Yes, I remember mentioning that I missed the apparently "larger" or "thicker" footprint of lower notes on the un-modded version.  However, after more listening, "larger" and "thicker" now only sound like "boomier" and "muddier,"  unfortunately.  To be fair, I never found the lower end notes of the modded version to be "lean" or "thin" in any egregious sense They just seemed to have slightly less large footprints, as compared to lower notes on the og version. On the other hand, they have succeeded in making the apparently extra "oomph" on the lower notes of the og version sound like mere "bloat," which I really do not care for anymore. Is this all subjective listening city?  Absolutely!  The experience has just schooled my ears, and my preferences have followed.  This is not the first time that has happened.  It is how I learned to school my ears about the impact of aftermarket cables, and also that of reducing various forms of electrical noises on audio signals.  Might your mileage vary?  Absolutely! Do I still recognize and respect the sonic integrity of the OG LP, even if I now prefer to listen to the modded version?  Absolutely!
> 
> I just couldn't "unhear" the modded version, once I heard it.  I could easily have lived with the OG version if I had never heard the modded one.


OK - not worried about bass anymore. 
How about treble in mod vs. OG? I do *not* like bright / sharp / over-detailed treble. I would rather have rolled-off treble than sharp notes up there...
So, for me, whatever the mod does (or does not do) in the treble would help me make my decision!  So, any impressions are welcome (positive and negative!)
Thanks.


----------



## sahmen

Zachik said:


> OK - not worried about bass anymore.
> How about treble in mod vs. OG? I do *not* like bright / sharp / over-detailed treble. I would rather have rolled-off treble than sharp notes up there...
> So, for me, whatever the mod does (or does not do) in the treble would help me make my decision!  So, any impressions are welcome (positive and negative!)
> Thanks.



Okay, this could be a tough one, but I'll give it a shot anyway. "Bright/sharp/over-detailed treble" is definitely not what I am hearing on the modded LP.  For perspective, I consider myself to be treble sensitive, to the point where I couldn't stand listening to my new Focal Elex for more the 5 minutes on this same rig, and on the original and unmodded LP, and I had to resell it immediately afterwards. What I found intolerable on the Elex was a general aggressive edginess and harshness, in the overall tone and pitch of the top-end, not necessarily any excess of details. On the other hand, I do get detail 
a-plenty from the modded LP but not the feeling of harshness or aggressive edginess, even though I am listening with the hifiman He-1000SE, which some people find to be too "shouty" or "splashy," sometimes. Whatever "shoutiness" or "splashiness" I am personally hearing from the He-1000SE seems to work very well for me.  It happens to be one of my favorites actually. So I do appreciate how subjective and idiosyncratic these impressions might sound to another, which is where the "toughness" I mentioned in the first sentence comes from.  As usual, it is not just my ears and the headphone I am using that should count, but the synergy of all the elements in the given signal chain in question.  Okay, I have done what I can.


----------



## mcfarlandhifi

So I may regret this but I just bought my second LP, first one died way back and has been sat in the local repair shop after some initial investigations since way before lockdown. This time I bought direct from Monoprice so I can at least take advantage of the warranty.


----------



## ruinedx

mcfarlandhifi said:


> So I may regret this but I just bought my second LP, first one died way back and has been sat in the local repair shop after some initial investigations since way before lockdown. This time I bought direct from Monoprice so I can at least take advantage of the warranty.


Good idea the newer ones fix some problems with the older ones


----------



## ksorota

ruinedx said:


> Good idea the newer ones fix some problems with the older ones
> 
> 
> mcfarlandhifi said:
> ...


I imagine the first one can be fixed, if you want me to take a look at it I would need more than happy to.

The biggest difference between the new and old is the force at which it takes to remove the tubes from the sockets.

Otherwise, sound quality wise I do not think you’ll notice a difference.


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 22, 2020)

sahmen said:


> Okay Update and "confession" time :
> 
> The more I listen to the modded LP, the more the un-modded version (the one from the recent $484 sale) becomes unlistenable. So as of today, I'm deciding to get the second one also modded.  Mind you, my feeling that this LP is one of the bestest-best valued amps for under $1000 (actually within any price bracket, period) has not changed, with the mod... If anything the mod has reinforced that opinion.  I tried to give the new un-modded version another opportunity to prove its sq credentials against the modded version, but my ears have finally decided in favor of the modded version, so I am moving on.  No hard feelings.
> 
> and...The mad scientist half of my audiophile brain is very pleased.


I can easily say it's the best value no doubt.  The performance you get at the price point is unbeatable.  I still want the low gain fixed.  It's too much.

Modded LP is new to me, I've not been keeping up.


----------



## kumar402

sahmen said:


> Okay Update and "confession" time :
> 
> The more I listen to the modded LP, the more the un-modded version (the one from the recent $484 sale) becomes unlistenable. So as of today, I'm deciding to get the second one also modded.  Mind you, my feeling that this LP is one of the bestest-best valued amps for under $1000 (actually within any price bracket, period) has not changed, with the mod... If anything the mod has reinforced that opinion.  I tried to give the new un-modded version another opportunity to prove its sq credentials against the modded version, but my ears have finally decided in favor of the modded version, so I am moving on.  No hard feelings.
> 
> and...The mad scientist half of my audiophile brain is very pleased.


I get you.....Since I also have Morpheus which is NOS R2R DAC and has that dense tone and good bass with gentle high and hence this mod which seems to extend treble and add air pairs well with your current system.


----------



## sahmen

kumar402 said:


> I get you.....Since I also have Morpheus which is NOS R2R DAC and has that dense tone and good bass with gentle high and hence this mod which seems to extend treble and add air pairs well with your current system.



Yes, you're right. I am almost always aware that the morpheus is an "invisible" but not "silent" in the sound field, and plays a huge role in shaping the sq of the LP.  I can hear the improvements it has brought to the table, as opposed to the Metrum Onyx it replaced, which was itself no slouch. I still have to sharpen my skills in determining the signature of the Morpheus separately from that of the LP, but I do not know whether that is entirely possible.  I just know that the two of them sing beautifully together, and create hours of fatigue-free listening pleasure, which make me want to keep listening... For now, I just want to hear more of that audio goodness.


----------



## mcfarlandhifi

ksorota said:


> I imagine the first one can be fixed, if you want me to take a look at it I would need more than happy to.
> 
> The biggest difference between the new and old is the force at which it takes to remove the tubes from the sockets.
> 
> Otherwise, sound quality wise I do not think you’ll notice a difference.



Thanks @ksorota I'd love nothing more than to get it repaired and to get your updates applied, however I'm in the UK.

The new unit has arrived and I've retrieved the Brimar tubes I hadn't yet listened to from the office and the Mullards from the defunct unit at the local repair shop. I'd purchased these after reading posts from @Wes S and @TK16 on this and the tube rolling thread. TBH the investment in tubes was the main reason I bought another unit, glad I did as I'm enjoying listening to the Mercury music prize winning Michael Kiwanuka album.


----------



## ksorota

mcfarlandhifi said:


> Thanks @ksorota I'd love nothing more than to get it repaired and to get your updates applied, however I'm in the UK.
> 
> The new unit has arrived and I've retrieved the Brimar tubes I hadn't yet listened to from the office and the Mullards from the defunct unit at the local repair shop. I'd purchased these after reading posts from @Wes S and @TK16 on this and the tube rolling thread. TBH the investment in tubes was the main reason I bought another unit, glad I did as I'm enjoying listening to the Mercury music prize winning Michael Kiwanuka album.



I did not notice your location before.  I would love to get back to Edinburgh...too bad my kids are not a bit older!!  

Are hot tatties still a big thing over there?  That is one fast food trend that has not made it in the states.


----------



## mcfarlandhifi

ksorota said:


> I did not notice your location before.  I would love to get back to Edinburgh...too bad my kids are not a bit older!!
> 
> Are hot tatties still a big thing over there?  That is one fast food trend that has not made it in the states.



Baked Tatties maybe I recall a place called Spud-U-Like 

On the LP front, if anyone in the UK is interested in a project, needs a donor LP chasis or what have you, let me know, it'll gather dust until then.


----------



## rayofsi

modded mine recently with the caps specified. starting to thing it sounds worse.. lol think i'm at about 50 hrs. going to give some extra time for the caps to break in.


----------



## Zulkr9

alright guys so I found a dead unit for 100, apparently it does not power up. I have a friend who's good with repairs, do you think its to take a shot at this ?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Absolutely!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Could be just the wall wart


----------



## TK16

mcfarlandhifi said:


> Thanks @ksorota I'd love nothing more than to get it repaired and to get your updates applied, however I'm in the UK.
> 
> The new unit has arrived and I've retrieved the Brimar tubes I hadn't yet listened to from the office and the Mullards from the defunct unit at the local repair shop. I'd purchased these after reading posts from @Wes S and @TK16 on this and the tube rolling thread. TBH the investment in tubes was the main reason I bought another unit, glad I did as I'm enjoying listening to the Mercury music prize winning Michael Kiwanuka album.


Kinda pricey but if you find a pair of these for cheaper I'd recommend these tubes. ECC186 is a 7316. Either long plate D getters or short plate D getters are almost as good as the long plates.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC186-Val...740ad397e85a446fff688a2|iid:1&redirect=mobile


----------



## Zulkr9

Guidostrunk said:


> Could be just the wall wart


Thanks as always haha I did some mods to my mcth having been inspired by the LP CAP mod I have to say that there was definitive improvement in the midrange and overall body with increased resolution. 
The mod was replacing the coupling caps (weren't even wima afaik) with audio note .1 uf 630volt


----------



## Curtisvill

TK16 said:


> Kinda pricey but if you find a pair of these for cheaper I'd recommend these tubes. ECC186 is a 7316. Either long plate D getters or short plate D getters are almost as good as the long plates.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC186-Val...740ad397e85a446fff688a2|iid:1&redirect=mobile



I bet those sound great.  I am enjoying a pair of Brimar ECC82 black plate slanting square getters.  The soundstage is quite large, strong base, great detail, and the warmth is what I have been looking for.  I think I have found a new favorite.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Take the mcth to the next level and get one of these.
https://www.tubemonger.com/12Axx_to...IB_1960s_p/12axx-ecc88-adap-novib-mcmurdo.htm
And one of these. 
https://www.tubemonger.com/Brimar_CV4033_NOS_1960_Prem_CV4024_STC_Eng_NOS_NIB_p/2048m.htm
 


Zulkr9 said:


> Thanks as always haha I did some mods to my mcth having been inspired by the LP CAP mod I have to say that there was definitive improvement in the midrange and overall body with increased resolution.
> The mod was replacing the coupling caps (weren't even wima afaik) with audio note .1 uf 630volt


----------



## Ham Sandwich

Guidostrunk said:


> Take the mcth to the next level and get one of these.
> https://www.tubemonger.com/12Axx_to...IB_1960s_p/12axx-ecc88-adap-novib-mcmurdo.htm
> And one of these.
> https://www.tubemonger.com/Brimar_CV4033_NOS_1960_Prem_CV4024_STC_Eng_NOS_NIB_p/2048m.htm



The 12Axx tubes are 12 volt. The 6922 tubes the Liquid Platinum is designed for are 6 volt.

So how does a simple tube adapter manage to get a 12 volt tube to operate at 6 volts properly?
Why would running a 12 volt tube at 6 volts be a good idea?


----------



## Guidostrunk

It also runs at 6.3v in parallel. That's the function of the "simple tube adapter".




Ham Sandwich said:


> The 12Axx tubes are 12 volt. The 6922 tubes the Liquid Platinum is designed for are 6 volt.
> 
> So how does a simple tube adapter manage to get a 12 volt tube to operate at 6 volts properly?
> Why would running a 12 volt tube at 6 volts be a good idea?


----------



## Guidostrunk

For the record. 12au7 can only be used in the LP due to the gain. 12at7 and 12au7 can be used in MCTH which is the amp mentioned in my response to the quote.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Guidostrunk said:


> For the record. 12au7 can only be used in the LP due to the gain. 12at7 and 12au7 can be used in MCTH which is the amp mentioned in my response to the quote.


Sorry ... for clarity, did you mean:

'For the record, only 12au7, not <_some other types>,_ can be used in the LP due to the gain ...'

Thanks!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Sorry about that. 12at7, and 12ax7 variants can not be used in the LP. 12at7 gain is 60, and 12ax7 gain is 100. 12au7 has a gain of around 18. There is a tube similar(same pin out) to 12au7 that is a 6211(Telefunken and Philips Heerlen) which has a gain of 32 which will work perfectly. 6922 runs around 36. 


LCMusicLover said:


> Sorry ... for clarity, did you mean:
> 
> 'For the record, only 12au7, not <_some other types>,_ can be used in the LP due to the gain ...'
> 
> Thanks!


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Sorry about that. 12at7, and 12ax7 variants can not be used in the LP. 12at7 gain is 60, and 12ax7 gain is 100. 12au7 has a gain of around 18. There is a tube similar(same pin out) to 12au7 that is a 6211(Telefunken and Philips Heerlen) which has a gain of 32 which will work perfectly. 6922 runs around 36.


As you know bro, 6N3P work in the LP along with 396A, 2C51, 5670 with a different adapter along with the Lite Dac 68. Got a pair of the Foton 58 3x mica in the LP. 6CC41, 6N2P will work in the dac without any adapter needed.


----------



## cglin222

Hi, noob tuber here, I see many recommended Genalex - Gold Lion E88CC, on tubedeopt, there are several options: 
Balanced Triodes 
High Gain 
Low Noise & Microphonics 
Matching 

I know matching is matching 2 tubes, but are the other 3 important in headphone amp vacuum tube?
Do you guys recommend select all options? does that result the best?

Thanks


----------



## Slade01

cglin222 said:


> Hi, noob tuber here, I see many recommended Genalex - Gold Lion E88CC, on tubedeopt, there are several options:
> Balanced Triodes
> High Gain
> Low Noise & Microphonics
> ...



In the LP, i would only think that maybe the Matching option would be relevant since it is one tube per channel.  All the other options are probably a waste of money in my opinion.


----------



## raphaelchan

May I know if anyone is using bifrost and LP? Would it be an upgrade from jot non multi-bit Dac and LP? Thanks


----------



## kumar402

raphaelchan said:


> May I know if anyone is using bifrost and LP? Would it be an upgrade from jot non multi-bit Dac and LP? Thanks


A good DAC will always be an upgrade and if DAC happens to be Bifrost 2 then definitely. Also amp like LP deserves a good standalone DAC


----------



## Odin412

raphaelchan said:


> May I know if anyone is using bifrost and LP? Would it be an upgrade from jot non multi-bit Dac and LP? Thanks



I use my Liquid Platinum with the original Bifrost Multibit and I really enjoy that combo. I recommend that you try a multibit DAC if you haven't listened to one before - to my ears the Bifrost Multibit (and Modi Multibit too) sound very natural and engaging.


----------



## Shane D

Guidostrunk said:


> Sorry about that. 12at7, and 12ax7 variants can not be used in the LP. 12at7 gain is 60, and 12ax7 gain is 100. 12au7 has a gain of around 18. There is a tube similar(same pin out) to 12au7 that is a 6211(Telefunken and Philips Heerlen) which has a gain of 32 which will work perfectly. 6922 runs around 36.



So you could drop the gain noticably by using 12AU7 tubes?


----------



## Guidostrunk

The gain between the 12au7(18ish) and 6922(36ish) really doesn't reflect any difference in the volume level on the knob. 
However, what is reflected is far superior sound over the 6922. 

Me personally was hoping that beings the 12au7 is about half the gain of the 6922 tube wise.. That it would give you more flexibility on the knob. I suppose the self biasing circuit has something to do with it not showing that outcome. 

As far as the whole gain issue that I was babbling about is that I believe that the LP will only properly run if the gain on any tube is below 40. Trying to run a 12at7(60ish) produces an extremely ugly distorted sound. Lol. 

Don't be afraid to dabble in the 12au7 my friend. It's a phenomenal experience!

Cheers!





Shane D said:


> So you could drop the gain noticably by using 12AU7 tubes?


----------



## Slim1970

Shane D said:


> So you could drop the gain noticably by using 12AU7 tubes?


I find it best to use your DAC to control the gain on the LP. Lowering the output on your DAC, nets you a fair amount of play on the LP's volume wheel. I'm using the Hugo 2 with my LP with superb results.


----------



## Shane D

Slim1970 said:


> I find it best to use your DAC to control the gain on the LP. Lowering the output on your DAC, nets you a fair amount of play on the LP's volume wheel. I'm using the Hugo 2 with my LP with superb results.



That is what I do, but I was curious.


----------



## Slim1970

First off I would like to thank @ksorota and @Guidostrunk for their excellent craftmanship and technical abilities. Thanks to these guys, I've been spending the last couple of days with my supped up LP. First was the cap mod, now the volume pot mod. Right off the bat, the ALPS volume knob feels great in hand compared to the original. Better resistance when turning the volume wheel, excellent low level channel balance, and control feels so smooth. Gone is the cheap, wobbly feeling of the original volume knob. My LP now feels and looks like a high quality piece of kit. 

The biggest improvements I'm hearing is the background is blacker letting more music through. This is due to better attenuation coming from the ALPS volume pot. Channel balance is greatly improvement and there seems to be a better sense of control of whats coming through to my headphones. 

I guess what everyone wants to know is this mod worth it. For me, yes. The step up in quality, build, feel and control are worth it alone. My LP feels and looks more premium. Kudos to the guys that made this happen


----------



## Guidostrunk

Glad you're happy with everything Slim! Enjoy my friend!
 


Slim1970 said:


> First off I would like to thank @ksorota and @Guidostrunk for their excellent craftmanship and technical abilities. Thanks to these guys, I've been spending the last couple of days with my supped up LP. First was the cap mod, now the volume pot mod. Right off the bat, the ALPS volume knob feels great in hand compared to the original. Better resistance when turning the volume wheel, excellent low level channel balance, and control feels so smooth. Gone is the cheap, wobbly feeling of the original volume knob. My LP now feels and looks like a high quality piece of kit.
> 
> The biggest improvements I'm hearing is the background is blacker letting more music through. This is due to better attenuation coming from the ALPS volume pot. Channel balance is greatly improvement and there seems to be a better sense of control of whats coming through to my headphones.
> 
> I guess what everyone wants to know is this mod worth it. For me, yes. The step up in quality, build, feel and control are worth it alone. My LP feels and looks more premium. Kudos to the guys that made this happen


----------



## SonnyMarrow (Oct 19, 2020)

I just acquired a Liquid Platinum and am having an interesting issue. The amp will only work if the case is off and there's no pressure on the XLR output port. If I take the case off, I can trigger the protection relay (white to red light) by pressing on the port. I can't seem to figure out exactly what's happening because it's inconsistent. Sometimes I need to push the port to trigger the relay back to white. Nothing obvious is wrong with the port.

EDIT: I've narrowed down the problem to the relay next to the XLR port. If I barely touch the case, it triggers. Should I replace this relay?


----------



## ksorota

SonnyMarrow said:


> I just acquired a Liquid Platinum and am having an interesting issue. The amp will only work if the case is off and there's no pressure on the XLR output port. If I take the case off, I can trigger the protection relay (white to red light) by pressing on the port. I can't seem to figure out exactly what's happening because it's inconsistent. Sometimes I need to push the port to trigger the relay back to white. Nothing obvious is wrong with the port.
> 
> EDIT: I've narrowed down the problem to the relay next to the XLR port. If I barely touch the case, it triggers. Should I replace this relay?


If by acquire you mean purchased second hand, then that is a good place to start. Likely a bad connection and you are getting a short.  If this keeps occurring you could do some lasting damage to the amp. 

 If you purchased from Monoprice then you should just give them a call and they will sort you out.  

Monoprice may even try to help you out if you are not the original purchaser, they are pretty good when it comes to CS.


----------



## SonnyMarrow

I bought it second hand for cheap. I knew it would be broken, just wanted to have fun repairing it. I bought a new one of the relays and will swap that out and see how it goes. Tried reflowing the joints of the relay stock relay, and it still cut in and out when the PCB flexed. Had it working for a bit, but the right channel didn't work when using XLR-out. 1/4" worked fine though. I have to wait a few days for the part, then I'll mess with it again.


----------



## cglin222 (Oct 20, 2020)

Skooks said:


> I received my *LPS-36 Low noise Linear Power Supply for Monolith Liquid Platinum Cavalli* *Headphone Amp* yesterday from the Chinese manufacturer... it's been hooked up and making music for about 20 hours now... really good sound!  It is very well built and It definitely makes the sound of the LP better in all aspects... "Just what the doctor ordered!" Definitely worth the price!
> I will wait until I burn it in for 150 hours and then I will give a more detailed review on how it powers the LP.
> My system:  2018 Mac mini with Audirvana Plus > balanced Topping D90 DAC >  balanquid Platinum Headphone Amp w/ LPS-36 LPS >  Hifiman Arya Planar Headphones > my ears.



Where did you get the riser feet under the LP?
I found it rather hot sitting on top of my dac, so looking for a good riser feet that'll stand the heat from LP
Thanks!


----------



## PoSR77 (Oct 22, 2020)

EDIT: Disregard. I have decided to get a Flux Lab Acoustics amp.


----------



## SonnyMarrow (Oct 22, 2020)

I replaced the XLR jack and the relay next to the jack to no avail. The LP powers on and eventually clicks white, but then a few moments later back to red. What's odd is that if I touch one of the pins of the relay, it will trigger. It's the pin farthest from the XLR jack, connected to R303.

EDIT: Another oddity, when using the XLR out, only the right channel works. The 1/4" jack works fine (when the amp works).


----------



## ksorota

Does anyone have any long term impressions of the HE-6 with the LP.  I have been interested in grabbing a Senn HD800S to keep with the LP, but am wondering if I should jump back into the HE-6 realm which I really enjoyed...actually more than Auteur somehow. 

I have not heard Auteur on the LP, so that might change things but unfortunately I sold it off earlier this year.  

I am currently using JAR HD600 daily (sounds really fantastic), but want something as a compliment.  HD800 might be too similar and maybe I need to go back to ZMF but I keep seeing HE-6's on the market and wonder. I have heard that planars and tubes do not always go well together...but just looking for impressions.


----------



## jaker782

ksorota said:


> Does anyone have any long term impressions of the HE-6 with the LP.  I have been interested in grabbing a Senn HD800S to keep with the LP, but am wondering if I should jump back into the HE-6 realm which I really enjoyed...actually more than Auteur somehow.
> 
> I have not heard Auteur on the LP, so that might change things but unfortunately I sold it off earlier this year.
> 
> I am currently using JAR HD600 daily (sounds really fantastic), but want something as a compliment.  HD800 might be too similar and maybe I need to go back to ZMF but I keep seeing HE-6's on the market and wonder. I have heard that planars and tubes do not always go well together...but just looking for impressions.



I ran my HE-6se from the LP, and honestly thought it was a pretty good pairing!  I think the high gain of the LP really helps and never felt like it wasn't providing enough juice to make the 6se sing.  For reference, I don't think I ever went higher than 1pm or so on the volume pot.  If you are pairing with a balanced dac, it might work even better since you'd be getting 4V into the LP instead of the standard 2V for a single ended dac.  Now, I have not heard any megabuck speaker amps so my frame of reference on what the HE-6 is really capable of is rather limited, but did feel the LP was on par with the Flux Labs FA-10, which provides up to 16W into 32 ohms.  I would recommend a warmer sounding tube though, especially with your modded LP as the highs can be a bit much on the stock 6/6se.  Hope this helps!


----------



## ksorota

jaker782 said:


> I ran my HE-6se from the LP, and honestly thought it was a pretty good pairing!  I think the high gain of the LP really helps and never felt like it wasn't providing enough juice to make the 6se sing.  For reference, I don't think I ever went higher than 1pm or so on the volume pot.  If you are pairing with a balanced dac, it might work even better since you'd be getting 4V into the LP instead of the standard 2V for a single ended dac.  Now, I have not heard any megabuck speaker amps so my frame of reference on what the HE-6 is really capable of is rather limited, but did feel the LP was on par with the Flux Labs FA-10, which provides up to 16W into 32 ohms.  I would recommend a warmer sounding tube though, especially with your modded LP as the highs can be a bit much on the stock 6/6se.  Hope this helps!



Thanks Jake

I previously was running modded HE6SE off of a Vidar with Saga + preamp and the setup was incredible, but it was much too much gear for a headphone setup.  I also might have blown the drivers with the setup due to rushing some setup.  Luckily HFM was able to warranty swap the drivers, but I was too afraid of that happening again and sold the setup.  Before the Vidar I was using a Jot and thought it paired well enough.  Part of the reason for selling the HE6SE was that I thought I was supposed to like the Auteur more and held on to it...but then sold it.  

I am looking forward to seeing the new Burl Auteurs that should be being released soon, but they are not quite in the budget right now. Honestly I should be happy with the HD600 but have long wanted to try out the HD800S and now that I am getting closer to pulling the trigger, I am having second thoughts on finding something that provides more low end.


----------



## jaker782

ksorota said:


> Thanks Jake
> 
> I previously was running modded HE6SE off of a Vidar with Saga + preamp and the setup was incredible, but it was much too much gear for a headphone setup.  I also might have blown the drivers with the setup due to rushing some setup.  Luckily HFM was able to warranty swap the drivers, but I was too afraid of that happening again and sold the setup.  Before the Vidar I was using a Jot and thought it paired well enough.  Part of the reason for selling the HE6SE was that I thought I was supposed to like the Auteur more and held on to it...but then sold it.
> 
> I am looking forward to seeing the new Burl Auteurs that should be being released soon, but they are not quite in the budget right now. Honestly I should be happy with the HD600 but have long wanted to try out the HD800S and now that I am getting closer to pulling the trigger, I am having second thoughts on finding something that provides more low end.



The thing is, we are never satisfied!  We know we *should* be happy with our current gear (especially if it is cheaper) but the itch to upgrade/hear something different eats at us until we submit!  I also sold off my HE-6se after thinking it would be my daily driver and my "keeper" upper tier headphone.  The Auteur is one that is definitely at the top of my list to try.  Maybe one day!


----------



## Slim1970

@ksorota my HD800S’s should be in hand around mid November. I should be able to answer a lot of questions regarding the sound of the modded LP and HD800S pairing. I also owned the Auteurs and HE6se’s but that was before I got my LP. So I never got to try them out on it. Do I miss them, a little. But I have headphones in my collection that best both of them to my ears. Namely, my HEKse’s, Susvara’s and Abyss TC’s. All of which are driven beautifully by my modded LP. The HEKse’s probably sound the closest to the HD800S’s or at least does similar things when it comes to rendering sound. I can say without out a doubt that the LP is magical with this headphone.


----------



## ksorota

Slim1970 said:


> @ksorota my HD800S’s should be in hand around mid November. I should be able to answer a lot of questions regarding the sound of the modded LP and HD800S pairing. I also owned the Auteurs and HE6se’s but that was before I got my LP. So I never got to try them out on it. Do I miss them, a little. But I have headphones in my collection that best both of them to my ears. Namely, my HEKse’s, Susvara’s and Abyss TC’s. All of which are driven beautifully by my modded LP. The HEKse’s probably sound the closest to the HD800S’s or at least does similar things when it comes to rendering sound. I can say without out a doubt that the LP is magical with this headphone.



It would be fantastic to hear your HD800S impressions, or compare notes if I end up picking up a pair sooner  

The auteurs were the ones I wanted to love, but the weight became too much during all day listening and I had to let them go...I guess it was somewhat similar with the HE6SE's.  I had the Ether 2 for a bit, but the clamp was way too strong and hurt my jawline too much to wear more than a couple hours. I should have tried the old bend the nitinol trick, but didnt think of it until I saw someone else here do it.


----------



## Slim1970

ksorota said:


> It would be fantastic to hear your HD800S impressions, or compare notes if I end up picking up a pair sooner
> 
> The auteurs were the ones I wanted to love, but the weight became too much during all day listening and I had to let them go...I guess it was somewhat similar with the HE6SE's.  I had the Ether 2 for a bit, but the clamp was way too strong and hurt my jawline too much to wear more than a couple hours. I should have tried the old bend the nitinol trick, but didnt think of it until I saw someone else here do it.


I want to try the Ether 2's again in my setup. The first time I heard them I don't think I was giving them enough power to properly drive them. Now I believe I have the right mixture of sound and power to get the most out of the Ether 2's. The Auteur's I had didn't really pair that well with the amps I had outside of the Cavalli Liquid Carbon 2.0. I did not like it all that much with solid state amps outside of that one. I'm sure the LP would've done it justice if only I hadn't sold them before I got the try it. 

Tomorrow you'll get another surprise to check out against the LP. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the FA-10 vs the LP my friend! It's a beast of an amp.


----------



## sahmen

Slim1970 said:


> I want to try the Ether 2's again in my setup. The first time I heard them I don't think I was giving them enough power to properly drive them. Now I believe I have the right mixture of sound and power to get the most out of the Ether 2's. The Auteur's I had didn't really pair that well with the amps I had outside of the Cavalli Liquid Carbon 2.0. I did not like it all that much with solid state amps outside of that one. I'm sure the LP would've done it justice if only I hadn't sold them before I got the try it.
> 
> Tomorrow you'll get another surprise to check out against the LP. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the FA-10 vs the LP my friend! It's a beast of an amp.


----------



## SonnyMarrow

I think I made some progress on the LP. I can get the amp to turn on if I tap a particular pin on the relay next to the XLR output. This only worked after I messed with R313 and R314. I bridged them to bypass Q307 just briefly, and now it will turn on fine for the most part. Still no output from the left channel of XLR output though.


----------



## jonathan c

While I have not attempted any direct modifications to my Liquid Platinum, I am intrigued with the “cap” and “volume pot” modifications. Maybe......in the meantime, I am using the aftermarket LPS-36 linear power supply in lieu of the SMPS. No problems at all (on LPS, on LP; off LP, off LPS) over the past four months since purchase. The connection between the LP and LPS is a 4N silver cable (GX16-2) and I replaced the LPS fuse with a Synergistic Research Orange  (F 2.0A). Finally (?), the EH 6922s were replaced with BEL E88CCs (made in India). To my ears: outstanding dynamics, linearity of response, improved body/heft/weight at all volume levels. Vocals and ambience are lifelike. Favourite headphones to use with the LP in this mode: HD 600s and Focal Clears.


----------



## ksorota

jonathan c said:


> While I have not attempted any direct modifications to my Liquid Platinum, I am intrigued with the “cap” and “volume pot” modifications. Maybe......in the meantime, I am using the aftermarket LPS-36 linear power supply in lieu of the SMPS. No problems at all (on LPS, on LP; off LP, off LPS) over the past four months since purchase. The connection between the LP and LPS is a 4N silver cable (GX16-2) and I replaced the LPS fuse with a Synergistic Research Orange  (F 2.0A). Finally (?), the EH 6922s were replaced with BEL E88CCs (made in India). To my ears: outstanding dynamics, linearity of response, improved body/heft/weight at all volume levels. Vocals and ambience are lifelike. Favourite headphones to use with the LP in this mode: HD 600s and Focal Clears.



The HD600's come to life even more so with the modded LP...Its one of my favorite pairings and really eye opening on what the right amp can do to an already great headphone. The mod just gives a little bit more of everything to the LP and helps lift what I perceived as a thickness in the signature, This thickness of sorts is what others really like about the Cavali sound. Focal Clears are one that i have not heard on this amp, but hopefully I will get a chance to in the not too distant future.


----------



## Slim1970

When I had the Clears, I didn't like it on the LP that much regardless of tube I had installed. I thought the midrange was a little grainy and a little too thick. The HD600's sound much better on the LP than the Clears. The Clears perform better on solid state gear to my ears. On solid state gear, the Clears maintain their clean sound, punch and dynamism. The HD600's seem to come alive on the LP.


----------



## Shane D

I LOVE my Elex's on the LP.
I am trying to thin my collection and have been doing some comparisons. I compared the HD600 to the HD660's on my two main amps. (I have decided that I am going to sell my tube amp.)

With the Violectric (via SE) and the LP via XLR I found the 660's to have a bit more detail and a bit more bass. It is close but I will be keeping the HD660's.

Both headphones sound pretty great on the LP.


----------



## jonathan c

ksorota said:


> The HD600's come to life even more so with the modded LP...Its one of my favorite pairings and really eye opening on what the right amp can do to an already great headphone. The mod just gives a little bit more of everything to the LP and helps lift what I perceived as a thickness in the signature, This thickness of sorts is what others really like about the Cavali sound. Focal Clears are one that i have not heard on this amp, but hopefully I will get a chance to in the not too distant future.


I should add that the cables used for the Clears are Arctic Cable Palladium Series; for the 600s, the cables are silver Lavricables — AC PS cables    are underway.


----------



## szore

I just bought a modded LP... Cant wait! Tomorrow!


----------



## sennfan83261

szore said:


> I just bought a modded LP... Cant wait! Tomorrow!


Let us know how they pair with your Arya's


----------



## jonathan c

szore said:


> I just bought a modded LP... Cant wait! Tomorrow!


How was the LP modified? You might also consider the aftermarket LPS-36 power supply. Then...there is tube rolling...6922s....6SN7s with adapters....fun, fun, fun...


----------



## szore

jonathan c said:


> How was the LP modified? You might also consider the aftermarket LPS-36 power supply. Then...there is tube rolling...6922s....6SN7s with adapters....fun, fun, fun...


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sold-monoprice-lp-w-cap-mod-tubes.945603/


----------



## Zachik

szore said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sold-monoprice-lp-w-cap-mod-tubes.945603/


You got yourself a steal!!!


----------



## szore

Zachik said:


> You got yourself a steal!!!


It's coming tomorrow, I can't wait!


----------



## Slim1970

szore said:


> I just bought a modded LP... Cant wait! Tomorrow!


You'll have to let us know what you think of it. I know a few of us who have the modded LP really enjoy its sound. The mods really helps the LP become more musical to go along with its power.


----------



## A Jedi

Anyone using Diana V2 with this amp?


----------



## Slim1970

A Jedi said:


> Anyone using Diana V2 with this amp?


I had the Diana Phi’s and I enjoyed the pairing. With the right tubes, the LP really filled in the Diana’s sound and gave them a lot more midrange body and bass. The LP maintained the Diana Phi’s transparency, detail, and clarity levels. Once, I heard them on the LP I really hated letting them go. It’s a very good pairing. Do note that my LP is modded.


----------



## szore

Luckbad said:


> There are quite a few old school linear power supplies that can be had for under $100 at the required ratings.
> 
> Power Designs Model 5015T and HP/Agilent/Keysight 6289A are excellent choices, for example (there are many more as well).
> 
> ...


I am getting my cap modded LP today, looking to upgrade power supply...I know you posted this a few years ago, but do you know which power supply would be best for me to get? Other than what you posted above.


----------



## szore

It's gonna be a good weekend!


----------



## szore

Wes S said:


> I am well over the 100 hour mark and I am still getting blown away, by this amp.  Things have really opened up and 2 things keep coming to mind, transient response and tonality.
> 
> Schiit Modi Multibit - Liquid Platinum - Amperex 7308 (1963) - ZMF Ori - Excellent transient response and tonality (lifelike sound), with 3 d effect.  The mids are to die for, and nothing else is lacking!


How do you discern 'transient response'?


----------



## szore




----------



## sennfan83261

szore said:


> [pics of setup]








Looking forward to your impressions,


----------



## szore (Nov 6, 2020)

I have the 6N3PTriple Mica 1950's Large Getter tube installed..It sounds interesting....definitely an improvement...and a lot more power! The Aryas are eating up the extra power, they seem to love it.... Strange: on 1 hand, it's very very subtle and smooth, but at the same time it is muscular...the capacitor mod really smooths out the sound in a ...don't know the words....very polite, sophisticated, musical way...but man is there power behind every note...the bass sounds rich and lean, fast, ...it narrows the soundstage a little bit, but in an oddly good way...makes it all more intimate... but honestly it seems to kill the Aryas soundstage a little... Sounds great...the mids seem 'heightened' someway...  MAN, I am BLASTING the Aryas and they sound clear as a bell! No distortion at all...stunning!!!  edit: i'm noticing with the more intimate soundstage, the imaging seems superior...


----------



## szore

Wow, I'm blown away, I'm seeing what this amp does and it's stunning...so dynamic...who said this thing was bass light? There's something almost magical about it...

What are some favorite DACS to pair this with?


----------



## sennfan83261

szore said:


> I have the 6N3PTriple Mica 1950's Large Getter tube installed..It sounds interesting....definitely an improvement...and a lot more power! The Aryas are eating up the extra power, they seem to love it.... Strange: on 1 hand, it's very very subtle and smooth, but at the same time it is muscular...the capacitor mod really smooths out the sound in a ...don't know the words....very polite, sophisticated, musical way...but man is there power behind every note...the bass sounds rich and lean, fast, ...it narrows the soundstage a little bit, but in an oddly good way...makes it all more intimate... but honestly it seems to kill the Aryas soundstage a little... Sounds great...the mids seem 'heightened' someway...  MAN, I am BLASTING the Aryas and they sound clear as a bell! No distortion at all...stunning!!!  edit: i'm noticing with the more intimate soundstage, the imaging seems superior...


I really enjoy the LP with my Aryas (Eitr > Mimby > LP). Although, I'm planning to upgrade my DAC (Bifrost 2 or Ares II). I believe that the LP helps to impart some much needed naturalness and body to the Arya's, specifically its mids, that altogether makes the Arya sound less dry. Yes, the soundstage is smaller by a smidge from the CTH (Tung-Sol 6C8G), but it is still very wide while the imaging and layering is damn impressive. I imagine that the Fotons and mods make your Arya's sing even more.


----------



## szore

sennfan83261 said:


> I really enjoy the LP with my Aryas (Eitr > Mimby > LP). Although, I'm planning to upgrade my DAC (Bifrost 2 or Ares II). I believe that the LP helps to impart some much needed naturalness and body to the Arya's, specifically its mids, that altogether makes the Arya sound less dry. Yes, the soundstage is smaller by a smidge from the CTH (Tung-Sol 6C8G), but it is still very wide while the imaging and layering is damn impressive. I imagine that the Fotons and mods make your Arya's sing even more.


I'm shocked at how good this sounds...I have NEVER in my life heard anything as good as this rig now...i've got goose bumps.. the Aryas have come ALIVE!


----------



## Curtisvill

szore said:


> I'm shocked at how good this sounds...I have NEVER in my life heard anything as good as this rig now...i've got goose bumps.. the Aryas have come ALIVE!



I told you this amp was a beast and punches way above it's weight class.  Be careful, the tube rolling can get expensive.  Happy listening.


----------



## jonathan c

Just finished listening to Live at the Sands (Frank Sinatra with the Count Basie band: 1966 recording: Quincy Jones, arranger). The Liquid Platinum has Philips SQ BEL E88CCs (made in India) and the LPS-36 linear power supply. “You are there” realism: true force with the big band, unbelievably clear and resonant delivery of the FS baritone, audience applause is holographic. To me, the Liquid Platinum is one of audio’s best and a bargain (...so is the HD-600 especially with a few choice mods)


----------



## Ham Sandwich

szore said:


> Wow, I'm blown away, I'm seeing what this amp does and it's stunning...so dynamic...who said this thing was bass light? There's something almost magical about it...
> 
> What are some favorite DACS to pair this with?



Welcome to the Cavalli blended hybrid sound. It's nice here. Especially with planar headphones.

The Cavalli blended hybrid bass is very nice with nuance and space and layering and power.

Here's how the Enjoy The Music review of the Liquid Platinum described the bass:
Some planar magnetic headphones responded especially well to the Liquid Platinum's bass delivery. The notoriously difficult Abyss AB-1266 can be quite choosy with its amp partners, but the Liquid Platinum was able to really make the AB-1266's legendary low end sing. Bass lines moved with titanic force – like the ocean shearing away rock from cliff sides with every note (I told you, this thing is evocative!).

The Cavalli blended hybrids can bring out some very neat bass with planars. It's the combination of bass with nuance and layering and the power to allow that to happen that does the trick. 

As for DACs. I spent some DAC churning and some mistakes in a quest to find a great synergistic DAC for my Liquid Fire. I ended up with a Schiit Multibit Gungnir after trying a bunch by buying and also trying at headphone meets. The Schiit multibits hit the magic synergy in both tonality and imaging that I'm after. My other top choice after all that auditioning and trying was a Berkeley Alpha DAC 1 or 2 that I'd have had to find used because the new price was too much (new around $5K, used were around $3K). The Berkeley and Schiit Multibits do sound different from each other, but both had the synergy and imaging and the ability to do the "you are there" style of sound that I'm after. A DAC that pairs well with the Liquid Fire or Liquid Crimson is also going to pair well with the Liquid Platinum. Both the Fire and Crimson are more transparent and picky about DAC pairing. But the Liquid Platinum has an advantage that it has balanced inputs so is able to take advantage of the balanced outputs from the Schiit multibits and other balanced output DACs.


----------



## szore

Ham Sandwich said:


> Welcome to the Cavalli blended hybrid sound. It's nice here. Especially with planar headphones.
> 
> The Cavalli blended hybrid bass is very nice with nuance and space and layering and power.
> 
> ...


This post is epic, thank you!


----------



## Odin412

szore said:


> Wow, I'm blown away, I'm seeing what this amp does and it's stunning...so dynamic...who said this thing was bass light? There's something almost magical about it...
> 
> What are some favorite DACS to pair this with?



Welcome to the Cavalli sound! I love it. I use mine with the Schiit Bifrost Multibit and I enjoy that combo.


----------



## szore

My 2.5 adapter came 2 days early!

The MEST and the Valkyrie custom dont sound great on the LP...it reminds me of the CL2 with 1950s cable and sp2000...All I see is it's limitations...the customs are better, but the MEST falls apart and becomes a boom boom tweet tweet parody of itself...the LP and the IEMs are worlds apart....I'll stick with the Aryas....


----------



## szore

its all relative. If I sat you down with the LP and the MEST you would love it.

If I then let you listen to the Arya, the MEST would never enter your thoughts again....


----------



## raphaelchan

Ham Sandwich said:


> Welcome to the Cavalli blended hybrid sound. It's nice here. Especially with planar headphones.
> 
> The Cavalli blended hybrid bass is very nice with nuance and space and layering and power.
> 
> ...


Did you compare Bifrost 2 multibit vs Multibit Gungnir before you decide? thanks so much for your input


----------



## Ham Sandwich

raphaelchan said:


> Did you compare Bifrost 2 multibit vs Multibit Gungnir before you decide? thanks so much for your input



I haven't compared a Gungnir MB and Bifrost 2 back to back yet. The Gungnir MB I have is the original version and purchased 5 years ago. I am going to be buying a Bifrost 2 soon to use as a DAC in a second setup paired with the Liquid Platinum or Liquid Gold X. I can't really help with a decision between the current Gungnir MB and Bifrost 2. Other than they'd both be good choices.


----------



## raphaelchan

Ham Sandwich said:


> I haven't compared a Gungnir MB and Bifrost 2 back to back yet. The Gungnir MB I have is the original version and purchased 5 years ago. I am going to be buying a Bifrost 2 soon to use as a DAC in a second setup paired with the Liquid Platinum or Liquid Gold X. I can't really help with a decision between the current Gungnir MB and Bifrost 2. Other than they'd both be good choices.


Hope to hear your opinion soon


----------



## jonathan c

Heads up:  Liquid Platinum is on sale on Monolith Monoprice website: price is $ 293.74 before shipping etc. I just bought a second LP (to keep as backup or to modify/have modified).


----------



## ksorota

jonathan c said:


> Heads up:  Liquid Platinum is on sale on Monolith Monoprice website: price is $ 293.74 before shipping etc. I just bought a second LP (to keep as backup or to modify/have modified).


Wow, that is one hell of a deal!


----------



## eeagle

ksorota said:


> Wow, that is one hell of a deal!


Thanks, guess it is finally time to try a LP


----------



## jonathan c

The $ 190 reduction from the previous sale price of $ 484 could be used to get the LPS-36 linear power supply if one so chooses...


----------



## jonathan c

In the family?...


----------



## muckyfingers

It just went up to $399, still a great deal.


----------



## Shane D

jonathan c said:


> Heads up:  Liquid Platinum is on sale on Monolith Monoprice website: price is $ 293.74 before shipping etc. I just bought a second LP (to keep as backup or to modify/have modified).



That is wild! That is less than half the price I paid this summer. To me, that is the best amp deal available right now, with two caveats: 1) There is a lot of gain so IEM's and efficient headphones are a little tricky and 2) Balanced out is the premium sound, so not useful with Grado's and other hardwired SE headphones, unless you mod. 
However, for THIS price, you could even just buy it as a specialty piece.


----------



## Random Lunatic

Looks like it was an error - its back up to 399... Damn! I should have grabbed one.


----------



## sennfan83261

Talk about a lightning sale, lol.


----------



## Random Lunatic

sennfan83261 said:


> Talk about a lightning sale, lol.


No kidding - I've been considering getting a Gold, so was flipflopping on whether I should just get a Platinum, or maybe both! Would love to hear someone compare either of them to one of the original Cavalli amps though... Really wish those were still made...


----------



## sennfan83261

Random Lunatic said:


> No kidding - I've been considering getting a Gold, so was flipflopping on whether I should just get a Platinum, or maybe both! Would love to hear someone compare either of them to one of the original Cavalli amps though... Really wish those were still made...


Likewise, I wish that the original Cavalli amps were still being made. I've always wanted to try the Liquid Glass in particular.


----------



## eeagle

jonathan c said:


> Heads up:  Liquid Platinum is on sale on Monolith Monoprice website: price is $ 293.74 before shipping etc. I just bought a second LP (to keep as backup or to modify/have modified).


Really appreciate you posting this.  I pulled the trigger on the $294 price and am glad I did.  Price is back up now but so far I have not gotten a cancellation.

I've had my eye on this for a while, but was reluctant with many noting volume control issues, that seem to have been corrected.  

Hope the order goes through.  Shipping was free, but LP was taxed.


----------



## sennfan83261 (Nov 9, 2020)

eeagle said:


> I had my eye on this for a while, but was reluctant with many noting volume control issues, that seem to have been corrected.
> 
> Hope the order goes through.  Shipping was free, but LP was taxed.


You have 30 days to return the unit and a 5-year replacement warranty. I shipped my first LP back due to the channel imbalance issues and the replacement unit is much better (no channel imbalance at 10 o'clock on the volume dial despite still having that jump in gain at 11:30. That said, leaving the volume dial at 1:30 and controlling your volume via your DAC or preamp is a workaround to this issue.


----------



## eeagle

sennfan83261 said:


> You have 30 days to return the unit and a 5-year replacement warranty. I shipped my first LP back to the channel imbalance issues and the replacement unit is much better (no channel imbalance at 10 o'clock on the volume dial despite still having that jump in gain at 11:30. That said, leaving the volume dial at 1:30 and controlling your volume via your DAC or preamp is a workaround to this issue.



Thanks, I will keep that in mind.  I plan to use the balanced SMSL SU-8 DAC which has a nice remote interface for volume and other functions.  I run most of my amps at fixed volume, and control it either with the DAC, or my foobar2000 player I use on my Windows machines.


----------



## Shane D

eeagle said:


> Thanks, I will keep that in mind.  I plan to use the balanced SMSL SU-8 DAC which has a nice remote interface for volume and other functions.  I run most of my amps at fixed volume, and control it either with the DAC, or my foobar2000 player I use on my Windows machines.



I enjoy this combo. I am actually leery of upgrading to a DAC without a volume setting.


----------



## A Jedi

Anyone try the LP with Diana V2? If so, how was/is your experience?


----------



## Slim1970

A Jedi said:


> Anyone try the LP with Diana V2? If so, how was/is your experience?


The LP sounds fantastic with my TC’s. It also paired well with the Diana Phi’s I had before upgrading to the TC’s. I can’t imagine the Diana V2’s would be any different.


----------



## MikeW (Nov 13, 2020)

just finished the Cap mod up on mine.. 12$ in parts from mouser, got em overnight, they are close by. Pretty easy cap swap. Just fired it up an hour ago, no magic smoke. Ended up doing Elna Silmic 470UF x 3, 10UF x 2, and a Nichicon 100UF "UKZ" aka "Muse", for the front XLR cap, as recommended by ksorota. Desoldering was a little harder then typical, but not too bad. the muse caps where only available in 50v, had to trim the leads a bit to get them to fit.

Edit for clarity : "Trim the leads" means reducing the radius of the wire, as it was physically to thick to fit though the hole. I used a small bench grinder with a smooth stone wheel. Ideally you could get the cap in a lower voltage, which would have smaller leads.


----------



## Slim1970

MikeW said:


> just finished the Cap mod up on mine.. 12$ in parts from mouser, got em overnight, they are close by. Pretty easy cap swap. Just fired it up an hour ago, no magic smoke. Ended up doing Elna Silmic 470UF x 3, 10UF x 2, and a Nichicon 100UF "UKZ" aka "Muse", for the front XLR cap, as recommended by ksorota. Desoldering was a little harder then typical, but not too bad. the muse caps where only available in 50v, had to trim the leads a bit to get them to fit.


So what do you think of the sound?


----------



## SilverEars

Slim1970 said:


> So what do you think of the sound?


I'm curious as well.  What is the purpose of the electrolytic caps? Personally, I find the mids a bit thick for my taste.  Does it bring the thickness down slightly?  Tighter bass would be an improvement as well.


----------



## Slim1970

SilverEars said:


> I'm curious as well.  What is the purpose of the electrolytic caps? Personally, I find the mids a bit thick for my taste.  Does it bring the thickness down slightly?  Tighter bass would be an improvement as well.


That's exactly what the cap mod does, opens up the sound and improves the frequency response across the board. I thought the LP is stock form sounded a bit congested. All of that went away with the cap mod and a set of tube adapters to go from the 6922 to the 12UA7 family of tubes.


----------



## Random Lunatic

Slim1970 said:


> That's exactly what the cap mod does, opens up the sound and improves the frequency response across the board. I thought the LP is stock form sounded a bit congested. All of that went away with the cap mod and a set of tube adapters to go from the 6922 to the 12UA7 family of tubes.


As much as I like the case, it's a shame it does quite heavily limit how big 'n' fancy caps we could potentially swap in...


----------



## Slim1970

Random Lunatic said:


> As much as I like the case, it's a shame it does quite heavily limit how big 'n' fancy caps we could potentially swap in...


So true, because apparently they make a difference to the sound.


----------



## A Jedi

Random Lunatic said:


> it's a shame it does quite heavily limit how big 'n' fancy caps we could potentially swap in...



Drill some holes in the top plate and stand whatever size caps you want out of it.


----------



## MikeW (Nov 12, 2020)

I think most of these caps are power supply stuff, Im not familiar enough with the design of the LP to know if it uses a "Coupling Cap" or anything directly in the signal path. I kind of doubt it, because usually if that is the case, the designer can at least spring for Wima's,(a film cap, vs electrolytic) for this critical role. Considering, there are likely no caps directly in the signal path, they are slightly less important. However, a lower noise, higher performing cap in the power supply circuitry should deliver superior results. I want to refrain from making any comments with regards to audio quality on freshly installed caps. I'll comment when they have 150 hours on them, and I have had longer to listen.


----------



## szore

Just got my new toy to pair with my Liquid Platinum!!!


----------



## MikeW (Nov 13, 2020)

Wow nice man, I use an RME ADI-2. I have used Schiit before, I enjoyed the pairing with Bifrost 1, for awhile. Im way to spoiled by the feature set of the adi now. I can't live without hardware level PEQ.


----------



## szore (Nov 13, 2020)

MikeW said:


> Wow nice man, I use an RME ADI-2. I have used Schiit before, I enjoyed the pairing with Bifrost 1, for awhile. Im way to spoiled by the feature set of the adi now. I can't live without hardware level PEQ.


Yes, the RME may still be on my list... I just hate the fact that it is not balanced, and to me the amp is a waste because I just dont need it....


----------



## Slim1970

MikeW said:


> Wow nice man, I use an RME ADI-2. I have used Schiit before, I enjoyed the pairing with Bifrost 1, for awhile. Im way to spoiled by the feature set of the adi now. I can't live without hardware level PEQ.


I use one in a different setup but you’re right about the RME. Love the feature set of that DAC. The Hugo 2 has been stuck to my LP since I got it.


----------



## szore

Does anyone here have opinions about output options from computer to DAC? I have EVGA NU audio card... Is optical out best? Or USB, BNC? Would I need a high end usb card to put in computer, or if BNC is best, is there a card to put in computer to provide BNC out? I am in unchartered waters here and can use some guidance...


----------



## malocadi

MikeW said:


> just finished the Cap mod up on mine.. 12$ in parts from mouser, got em overnight, they are close by. Pretty easy cap swap. Just fired it up an hour ago, no magic smoke. Ended up doing Elna Silmic 470UF x 3, 10UF x 2, and a Nichicon 100UF "UKZ" aka "Muse", for the front XLR cap, as recommended by ksorota. Desoldering was a little harder then typical, but not too bad. the muse caps where only available in 50v, had to trim the leads a bit to get them to fit.
> 
> Edit for clarity : "Trim the leads" means reducing the radius of the wire, as it was physically to thick to fit though the hole. I used a small bench grinder with a smooth stone wheel. Ideally you could get the cap in a lower voltage, which would have smaller leads.


I finally modded my LP last night too. Getting that solder was such a pain. Word of advice to anyone trying to do this: use a solder sucker, forget trying to use a wick; there was hardly any flow and I kept trying to add more solder/flux to see it'd help but didn't.

Anyway, it was a success! Not going to post a pic since it's not nearly as neat as this one  I used elna/silmic capacitors recommended by @ksorota. 

Impressions (D90 -> LP (cap mod, stock tubes) -> LCD-4): Details were a whole lot clearer after the mod, and I mean well past any doubt contributed by confirmation bias. I can't quite tell if the bass was tempered or the mids were raised after, but overall the sound seems more balanced across the board (listening to Fleetwood Mac - Go Your Own Way where the vocals always seemed more relaxed, I noticed it was more forward after). Bass felt like it had a lot more oomf and less roll-off into mid-bass (Alice in Chains - No Excuses, I felt like I lived inside that bass drum). Highs were still fast and crisp, just as before (Dave Brubeck - Take Five intro, both the ting of the cymbals and the reverberation of the bass and snare drums came through crystal clear). There was one point I was listening and thought someone was knocking on my door behind me, ended up being what I was listening to (Tool - Chocolate Chip Trip). After realizing this, I listened to some other tracks I knew well (Amber Rubarth - Strive, Diane Krall - Temptation, my go-to's for comparing soundstage and imaging) and concluded that soundstage also seemed to have increased slightly.

Didn't want to lead in with this but my immediate impression after the mod was "I'm done". I'm done in the sense, that I can comfortably stick with this amp in its improved form for a good while.


----------



## Slim1970

szore said:


> Does anyone here have opinions about output options from computer to DAC? I have EVGA NU audio card... Is optical out best? Or USB, BNC? Would I need a high end usb card to put in computer, or if BNC is best, is there a card to put in computer to provide BNC out? I am in unchartered waters here and can use some guidance...


I’m strongly considering the Sonore OpticalRendu with Uptone Audio’s LPS 1.2 power supply. If you have an optical output on your sound card you can go straight to the OpticalRendu. Otherwise, you‘ll need the optical module to convert USB to optical.


----------



## Slim1970

malocadi said:


> I finally modded my LP last night too. Getting that solder was such a pain. Word of advice to anyone trying to do this: use a solder sucker, forget trying to use a wick; there was hardly any flow and I kept trying to add more solder/flux to see it'd help but didn't.
> 
> Anyway, it was a success! Not going to post a pic since it's not nearly as neat as this one  I used elna/silmic capacitors recommended by @ksorota.
> 
> ...


Well said, the cap mod literally transforms the LP into an outstanding amp with gobs of power.


----------



## fordski

sunni said:


> Really appreciate @ksorota 's help, his informative guide made a noob completed his caps mod!
> 
> I'm not good at finding the differences, describing it could be more difficult, anyway I'll try my best, in my way. Note that I've only got 30 hours of burn-in, so it could sound better, but I don't think I really find much difference from the hour 0 to now, maybe it sounds a bit smoother now? And I've forgot about the OG LP sounding already so...
> 
> ...



Thanks for posting your experience. Could you please direct me to the guide as I'm having a little trouble finding it in this forum. I am considering doing this mod myself as I'm in Mexico and shipping back and forth from here is quite expensive. From the sounds of it it sounds like a fairly simple and beneficial mod.


----------



## A Jedi

fordski said:


> Thanks for posting your experience. Could you please direct me to the guide as I'm having a little trouble finding it in this forum. I am considering doing this mod myself as I'm in Mexico and shipping back and forth from here is quite expensive. From the sounds of it it sounds like a fairly simple and beneficial mod.



Start on page 192.


----------



## eeagle

FedEx made me smile today!  

Monoprice delivered on their short lived good deal.  Installed the stock tubes included, and I am in new gear heaven listening to my Hi-Res collection.  LP easily drives even my hard to drive planar's balanced with not much more than the 10 o'clock on the volume knob position, and so far I have not noticed any channel balance inconsistencies. Very happy with this purchase.  Thanks to all in this thread that have recommended the LP.


----------



## szore

eeagle said:


> FedEx made me smile today!
> 
> Monoprice delivered on their short lived good deal.  Installed the stock tubes included, and I am in new gear heaven listening to my Hi-Res collection.  LP easily drives even my hard to drive planar's balanced with not much more than the 10 o'clock on the volume knob position, and so far I have not noticed any channel balance inconsistencies. Very happy with this purchase.  Thanks to all in this thread that have recommended the LP.


It's a great feeling, ain't it? FedEx did me right today too!!!


----------



## MikeW (Nov 13, 2020)

szore said:


> Yes, the RME may still be on my list... I just hate the fact that it is not balanced, and to me the amp is a waste because I just dont need it....



What do you mean it is not balanced? the RME Adi-2 DAC FS is, oh your talking about the headphone output? I only use it as a DAC, but the headamp is actually not terrible. I found it competitive with Jotunheim, honestly, especially with a little EQ. It's not a high end headphone output, but it's not entry junk either. Kinda middle of the road headphone amp, and excellent dac. I would not bother pairing the ADI-2 with anything "less" then a 500$ amp, as the built in amp performs close to that level imho.


----------



## szore

MikeW said:


> What do you mean it is not balanced? the RME Adi-2 DAC FS is, oh your talking about the headphone output? I only use it as a DAC, but the headamp is actually not terrible. I found it competitive with Jotunheim, honestly, especially with a little EQ. It's not a high end headphone output, but it's not entry junk either. Kinda middle of the road headphone amp, and excellent dac. I would not bother pairing the ADI-2 with anything "less" then a 500$ amp, as the built in amp performs close to that level imho.


O, the DAC IS balanced out, my bad...


----------



## hikaru12

malocadi said:


> I finally modded my LP last night too. Getting that solder was such a pain. Word of advice to anyone trying to do this: use a solder sucker, forget trying to use a wick; there was hardly any flow and I kept trying to add more solder/flux to see it'd help but didn't.
> 
> Anyway, it was a success! Not going to post a pic since it's not nearly as neat as this one  I used elna/silmic capacitors recommended by @ksorota.
> 
> ...



My two cents on the LP cap mod is that it introduces a lot of clarity and focus but you lose a bit of that tube warmth and haziness which provides for a more relaxed listening experience. The cap mod does make the amp more responsive to tube rolling though which might be good in your circumstance. I personally just love the tone of this amp - it pairs so well with more analytical/brighter tubes and I'm convinced had I kept my Aryas they would have do wonders to smooth over any peakiness. 

I'm very impressed with how well it responds to even cheap tubes.


----------



## szore

Slim1970 said:


> I’m strongly considering the Sonore OpticalRendu with Uptone Audio’s LPS 1.2 power supply. If you have an optical output on your sound card you can go straight to the OpticalRendu. Otherwise, you‘ll need the optical module to convert USB to optical.


I emailed Sonore and they called  me immediately and did a phone consultation..Great people...I am going to follow your lead, I think. Not gonna use optical, they recommend CAT 6 out of computer.....


----------



## Slim1970

szore said:


> I emailed Sonore and they called  me immediately and did a phone consultation..Great people...I am going to follow your lead, I think. Not gonna use optical, they recommend CAT 6 out of computer.....


So they recommended the UltraRendu instead of the OpticalRendu to connect to your DAC? Then from your DAC to the LP?


----------



## szore

Slim1970 said:


> So they recommended the UltraRendu instead of the OpticalRendu to connect to your DAC? Then from your DAC to the LP?


Yeah, it was a little confusing...I won't be ready to buy until about a month...he said optical, but then he said cat 6 out...LOL I'm not sure! Let me sit with the Yaggy for a month, then I will contact them and work it out... right now, the Yggy is cold and it is unreal...hypnotising and addictive...I never been in this place musically before... I am at a loss for words right now....


----------



## MikeW (Nov 13, 2020)

after 24 hours of burn in, the caps are starting to open up a bit. New caps always have a congested/nasal type sound, so I never like to comment to soon. They still need more burn in time, but it's an improvement with regards to bass Punch (not bass quantity) and a bit less "haziness" which can be a good or bad thing depending on one's preference. I feel like the high's are more clear, with less tingle/fringe on the edges. I look forward to a fully burned in listen. These obersvations would make sense if the caps are simply lower noise, lower esr, and higher performance. Just less distortion. I do wonder what the designer would have chosen, if price was no object. As these 6 caps cost about 12$, i'd imagine the spec'ed ones are probably 3-4$. That adds up when your making tens of thousands of units. So one must consider if it's not a matter of preferred voicing, but one of economics.


----------



## malocadi

What tubes are good with these?


----------



## MikeW (Nov 14, 2020)

48 hrs burn in done.. caps continue to open up and lose congestion. So I can say, these are a clear upgrade in many ways, and as usual with capacitor upgrades, they are a voicing component, and some may prefer one over the other. At first impressions these are more to my taste however. As I would switch back and forth sometimes between the headphone output on my ADI-2 and the LP, the LP was more enjoyable, and the better amp, however, I would sometimes find myself missing clairty and detail, and bass punch. This was a stark contrast when moving from one amp to the other, and not a knock against either amp, they are just different. Anyways, i feel these cap mods have cleaned up the high's a bit, and improved bass punch, with slightly less bass quantity, everything is cleaner, and dynamics are improved, staging is a bit more forward, like i've moved up a couple of rows, this aides dynamics and staging as it gives the instruments room to spread. Im quite happy with the results, im sure these capacitors are objectively better, however one may prefer either for subjective reasons. If you find yourself wanting more clairty/detail, noticing small instruments deep in the mix, better "Speed", better bass punch, and what I'd consider a more accurate bass quantity, then you may consider this upgrade. If you want "Smooth, and homogeneous" you may wish to stick to the stock configuration. I never heard the "Original mod" configuration, which had a different cap in the XLR configuration (another Silmic II, 100 UF, 25 v), that cap was later changed out to a preferred Nichicon UKZ, and that is the configuration i went with. A few people somewhere else tried a few different caps, mostly of either silmic or nichicon muse, in various positions and came to the conclusion they preferred the UKZ in that XLR position, for improved bass response.

Edit: im pretty sure those 470 UF stock caps are panasonic FM's.. they are a "Good" cap, but they definately impart their own sonic charteristic on the signal, namely high end "sizzle" and a mid boost. This is well documented as that cap's been around 20 years or more, very easy to find many comparison in diy audio forums of various type discussing the merits of panasonic vs silmic II vs Nichicon KZ.. the fm is not quite in the same league, but it's not garbage either. Likely selected for it's cost, and form factor. looking at the stock parts, it's obvious that thought and care was put into the selection, good quality, good price, good form factor. It makes sense, people's observation that tubes make a bigger impact after the swap, as the botique parts are more transparent for sure, your hearing "less" of the capacitor, and "more" of the tube.


----------



## MikeW (Nov 14, 2020)

So, I have some 12AU7 socket adapters that i've had sitting in a drawer for a year, never did try them. Is the consensus that it's safe to run 12AU7 in the LP? and also, do you guys "Stack" a socket saver first, and then put your adapter in the socket saver and then the tube? so that you can actually remove the socket adapter and try other tubes? is there anything wrong with this approach? was thinking of getting some tube monger socket savers and sticking my 12AU7 adapter into that first.

I've not done a ton of tube rolling, i've tried a few different pairs, but nothing too fancy, largly, because I have hardware PEQ at my dispossal and I use it to do whatever I want, my stock tubes sound very very different with a little EQ applied. I mostly use it as a harmon-curve to equal out the headphones im using, that is the primary application. I sometimes will make minor adjustments *after* that, but once an appropriate curve is found, tailored to the *headphone* it pretty much stays in place, and the tube rolling begins.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Been using 12au7 since I acquired my LP. No issues whatsoever. 





MikeW said:


> So, I have some 12AU7 socket adapters that i've had sitting in a drawer for a year, never did try them. Is the consensus that it's safe to run 12AU7 in the LP? and also, do you guys "Stack" a socket saver first, and then put your adapter in the socket saver and then the tube? so that you can actually remove the socket adapter and try other tubes? is there anything wrong with this approach? was thinking of getting some tube monger socket savers and sticking my 12AU7 adapter into that first.
> 
> I've not done a ton of tube rolling, i've tried a few different pairs, but nothing too fancy, largly, because I have hardware PEQ at my dispossal and I use it to do whatever I want, my stock tubes sound very very different with a little EQ applied. I mostly use it as a harmon-curve to equal out the headphones im using, that is the primary application. I sometimes will make minor adjustments *after* that, but once an appropriate curve is found, tailored to the *headphone* it pretty much stays in place, and the tube rolling begins.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I dont use socket savers with the adapters


----------



## MikeW

Guidostrunk said:


> I dont use socket savers with the adapters


I have an original LP with very stiff sockets, i can't imagine that tube adapter would ever come out once it's in, without taking the amp apart. I don't really like the idea of it being permanent


----------



## ksorota

MikeW said:


> I have an original LP with very stiff sockets, i can't imagine that tube adapter would ever come out once it's in, without taking the amp apart. I don't really like the idea of it being permanent



In order to get the adapters out you use a pair of channel locks, press down on the cover to flex the top down a little then grasp firmly on edges of the adapters. Pull gently with consistent tension until it comes out. 

You cannot slide the board out of the casing with the adapters in... the only way is out the top. 

I’ve done this multiple times with no damage to the unit, can scuff up the adapter though.


----------



## MikeW (Nov 14, 2020)

ksorota said:


> In order to get the adapters out you use a pair of channel locks, press down on the cover to flex the top down a little then grasp firmly on edges of the adapters. Pull gently with consistent tension until it comes out.
> 
> You cannot slide the board out of the casing with the adapters in... the only way is out the top.
> 
> I’ve done this multiple times with no damage to the unit, can scuff up the adapter though.



Yeah, i gathered from some info I gleaned, that folks take the back of the unit off and use a long screwdriver to get between the socket and adapter and pry it up. That's why i'd considered a socket saver + adapter, is there any negative to this approach other then cost? the tube monger socket savers are a little pricey around 28$ each. Made in the usa with anti vibration at least.

I often ponder if im just spinning my wheels with tube rolling, considering the aforementioned PEQ, that im not afraid to use. PEQ is such a powerful tool to customize audio to your preference. Once understood, it works so well, and if done at the hardware level, you don't have to worry about dumb crap like software compatibility, windows mixer, software running in the background, none of that nonsense, you get clean, hardware applied EQ, across all input sources, no matter if it's a game,  youtube, your music app, etc.

So it becomes more a question of the tubes technical capability, more then it's EQ curve. Is the tube technicallty superior then the other, does it offer a more pleasing harmonic distortion, because it's EQ is rather moot, need more bass? no problem, want more high's? got you covered.. it's the things that can't be tweaked that matter, like sound stage, 3d, etc.

I love hardware based EQ, and will never be without it again. Software is such a pain in the ass, I don't even think you can get EQ on qubouz or tidal, at least not without jumping though a bunch of hoops, then it only applies to those apps, what a hassle. I actually have a Schiit hardware EQ that i've stored, refuse to sell it, lol just in case I one day move away from my ADI-2, i'll at least have some form of hardware EQ.

Can't say much bad about the ADI-2.. i've owned a few amps and dac's over the years, it's my favorite product ever. Period, full stop. The headphone amp is only middling, but I could happily live with it as an all in one if I was forced to. The featureset, and dac is excellent, and the amp's short-coming's are largely rectified by the units built in PEQ. It make's it very hard to move back to "just a dac", even one as great as a  Yggy. I previously owned a Jotunheim + multibit module, and i'd take the ADI-2 all day long, not even a close comparison. The amps are not so far apart, but everything else is drastically better on the ADI.


----------



## snailmeat

Picked one up at the current sale price of $399.90.


----------



## havagr8da

I hit that buy button on the sale too. What a bargain for a great little amp. Smiles delivered immediately Kann Cube XLR out Silver Dragon cable to the LP listening with Grado RS1e Dlack Dragon balanced cable. Heavenly!


----------



## Magic77

I’m interested in getting this amp, but have a couple of questions. Do you definitely need a source with a balanced output to connect it to the balanced input. For example, I have a CD player with only unbalanced outputs. I know I could use it single ended, but am more interested in the balanced.


----------



## A Jedi

Magic77 said:


> Do you definitely need a source with a balanced output to connect it to the balanced input.



No.


----------



## Magic77

A Jedi said:


> No.


So, are you saying I would just need RCA to XLR adapters?


----------



## jnak00

Magic77 said:


> So, are you saying I would just need RCA to XLR adapters?


There is a single ended input on the amp.


----------



## MikeW (Nov 16, 2020)

you can actually input single ended into the amp, and still get balanced output. not sure it makes a huge difference, what does make a huge difference is balanced output, you don't want to use the SE output (headphone out) on this amp.


----------



## Magic77

jnak00 said:


> There is a single ended input on the amp.


OK,


MikeW said:


> you can actually input single ended into the amp, and still get balanced output. not sure it makes a huge difference


OK, so I’m now assuming that my headphones would need to have the balanced connection at the headphone output. But would I really get a balanced output/sound. My assumption was that to get a true balanced output you would have to have a source with balanced outputs.


----------



## MikeW (Nov 16, 2020)

Magic77 said:


> OK,
> 
> OK, so I’m now assuming that my headphones would need to have the balanced connection at the headphone output. But would I really get a balanced output/sound. My assumption was that to get a true balanced output you would have to have a source with balanced outputs.



The unbalanced source won't make a huge difference with this amp, but you definately need to use the balanced output for the best experience. It's not close, so yes, you need balanced headphone cables, furthermore, yes it won't be "True Balanced" without balanced input, but it makes little difference with this amp design. There's a big difference in power output and other spec's with the XLR output though, the single ended is only a convenience add and should not be used. Hilariously this is the way they tested the amp at ASR, what a joke.


----------



## A Jedi

Magic77 said:


> So, are you saying I would just need RCA to XLR adapters?



I'm saying just go RCA in.


----------



## Magic77

MikeW said:


> The unbalanced source won't make a huge difference with this amp, but you definately need to use the balanced output for the best experience. It's not close, so yes, you need balanced headphone cables, furthermore, yes it won't be "True Balanced" without balanced input, but it makes little difference with this amp design.


So, I guess using a 1/4 inch to XLR adapter would not give you the true balanced sound. You definitely need the balanced headphone cables.


----------



## A Jedi

Magic77 said:


> So, I guess using a 1/4 inch to XLR adapter would not give you the true balanced sound.



This is a big no-no (1/4" plugged into XLR). You can damage your amp.



Magic77 said:


> You definitely need the balanced headphone cables.



Yes.


----------



## MikeW (Nov 16, 2020)

Magic77 said:


> So, I guess using a 1/4 inch to XLR adapter would not give you the true balanced sound. You definitely need the balanced headphone cables.



you need to use the XLR headphone output on the amp, full stop. input does not matter as much. To get "True" balanced you would need to be balanced end to end, as in Source, Amp, and Headphones. I would not sweat it too much if you skip on the balanced source, but the other two are important. This can vary, depending on your equipment. Some gear's XLR output may not function if it does not recieve a balanced signal, fortunately that is not the case here.


----------



## sahmen

Magic77 said:


> So, I guess using a 1/4 inch to XLR adapter would not give you the true balanced sound. You definitely need the balanced headphone cables.


You must be the guy whose question I just answered on the Liquid Platinum page at the Monoprice site.  

Yes the balanced output would deliver better performance.


----------



## Magic77

MikeW said:


> The unbalanced source won't make a huge difference with this amp, but you definately need to use the balanced output for the best experience. It's not close, so yes, you need balanced headphone cables, furthermore, yes it won't be "True Balanced" without balanced input, but it makes little difference with this amp design. There's a big difference in power output and other spec's with the XLR output though, the single ended is only a convenience add and should not be used. Hilariously this is the way they tested the amp at ASR, what a joke.


Thanks, but unfortunately I don’t have headphones that would use balanced cables at the moment. I see that it’s only $399 right now at Monoprice.com Guess I could use it single ended until I get new headphones.


----------



## MikeW

Magic77 said:


> Thanks, but unfortunately I don’t have headphones that would use balanced cables at the moment. I see that it’s only $399 right now at Monoprice.com Guess I could use it single ended until I get new headphones.



What headphones do you have? if they have removable cables you can usually buy balanced cables on ebay for cheap. You could use the single ended as a crutch, but the risk is you don't ever get a balanced phone, and that would be a waste.


----------



## Magic77

MikeW said:


> What headphones do you have? if they have removable cables you can usually buy balanced cables on ebay for cheap. You could use the single ended as a crutch, but the risk is you don't ever get a balanced phone, and that would be a waste.


Yeah, I believe I can get a balanced cable for the V-Moda Crossfade M100 Master. I’ll check it out.


----------



## Magic77 (Nov 16, 2020)

MikeW said:


> What headphones do you have? if they have removable cables you can usually buy balanced cables on ebay for cheap. You could use the single ended as a crutch, but the risk is you don't ever get a balanced phone, and that would be a waste.


My V-Moda headphones have two detachable outputs. I don’t see any balanced cables for sale at their website. Could anyone make a recommendation for cables? Not sure if it’s even possible with these headphones.


----------



## MikeW (Nov 16, 2020)

100 hours on the cap mod burn in, and im quite impressed. Things keep getting better and better. Caps really opened up around 80 hours, I love the new detail im hearing in strings, the high's and low's at the extreme's have really come into their own in the last 20 hours. I forget how aweful new caps sound lol.

lets see if I can sum up the differences:

More forward, vocal's are pulled closer to you, but I would not describe it as 2D, it's got way more depth then a Jotunheim for example.

Much clearer and cleaner high's, more detail retrieval

Punchy, tight bass, some mid-bass bloat removed

far more speed and attack

more solid state sounding, but still a tube for sure..

when investigating old post on various forums, these changes are bang on with what one would expect when replacing pansonic and lower tier nichicon with Silmic II and Muse, the improvements heard are uncanny and there are many post and impressions from the past 20 years that describe what im hearing. Curious what these 470 UF caps would sound like bypassed with a 4.7 UF Wima, but I will stop here.

Some people may prefer one over the other, but for me, I 100% like the newer caps. Im not going to wax poetic and romanticisize inferior caps with higher distortion(stock) But one could subjectively prefer one over the other, DAC's, and tubes play a part. Those pansonic 470's are known for "mid bass boost and top end sizzle" and that is exactly what is removed, and replaced with something cleaner and more accurate.


----------



## Magic77

sahmen said:


> You must be the guy whose question I just answered on the Liquid Platinum page at the Monoprice site.
> Yes, I’m the guy, LOL. Thanks for your great answer.
> Yes the balanced output would deliver better performance.


----------



## Magic77 (Nov 16, 2020)

Unfortunately, The Crossfade M-100 only have stereo output connections, so balanced would not be possible. But, I could be wrong.


----------



## Shane D

Magic77 said:


> I’m interested in getting this amp, but have a couple of questions. Do you definitely need a source with a balanced output to connect it to the balanced input. For example, I have a CD player with only unbalanced outputs. I know I could use it single ended, but am more interested in the balanced.



You can use SE or balanced input. The amp will output either to balanced. But You do need balanced output to get the max out of the amp. SE output is not terrible, but balanced is better.

In my case I only used balanced out since my other amp is only SE out. They are a great 1-2 punch!


----------



## Magic77 (Nov 17, 2020)

Shane D said:


> You can use SE or balanced input. The amp will output either to balanced. But You do need balanced output to get the max out of the amp. SE output is not terrible, but balanced is better.
> 
> In my case I only used balanced out since my other amp is only SE out. They are a great 1-2 punch!


Thank you. I would have to use the SE input until I get balanced headphones


----------



## Shane D

Magic77 said:


> Thank you. I would have to use the SE input until I get balanced headphones



Just to clarify, the input is what you plug into your amp, be it a DAC or another source.

The output on the front of the amp should be balanced out. In most cases you can get a balanced cable from Amazon for a lot of different headphones, without breaking the bank.

Alternately, $399.00 is an Awesome price for this amp and you can add better 'phones later.

I love my Sundara's out of this amp with my relatively cheap balanced cable I bought on Amazon.


----------



## Marlowe

Magic77 said:


> So, are you saying I would just need RCA to XLR adapters?


I've not done a search, but I'm pretty sure that I've read here or in other threads that using adapters to run RCA into XLR inputs is not recommended. Others can correct me if I am wrong. In any case, as I (very non-technical person) understand it, it really is not necessary with the LP because it has a phase splitter that essentially allows it to operate as a balanced amp whether it is being fed through the balanced or single ended inputs. So even with a non-balanced source running into the LP's RCA inputs, you get the benefit of balanced operation and the additional power when using the XLR output.


----------



## jnak00

I understand the RCA output on the back is a "loop" from the SE input, and not affected by the volume control.  Is it active even when the amp is off?


----------



## Nklaiste

This might be a stupid question but how much better is the Liquid Platinum vs the Liquid Spark?

I'm looking to buy an amp for the 650's and am wondering if the LP would be the worth the extra money?


----------



## jonathan c

Nklaiste said:


> This might be a stupid question but how much better is the Liquid Platinum vs the Liquid Spark?
> 
> I'm looking to buy an amp for the 650's and am wondering if the LP would be the worth the extra money?


Yes. I have been using the LP (with an external linear power supply) to drive HD-600s to utmost musical satisfaction. Firm, taut bass, sculpted midrange, ethereal treble. Vocals and acoustic instruments are lifelike with considerable ambience. Very wide dynamic range, too. Versus the Spark, the LP can also be a springboard to tube “rolling”...a tale for another time.


----------



## Shane D (Nov 19, 2020)

Nklaiste said:


> This might be a stupid question but how much better is the Liquid Platinum vs the Liquid Spark?
> 
> I'm looking to buy an amp for the 650's and am wondering if the LP would be the worth the extra money?



The LP is a great amp via a balanced cable. Tons of power and the sound is great. It really fills out the sound.
If they are still on sale for $399.00, that is a killer deal.

Personally I do love my LS, but it has much less power. I bought an open box for $80.00 which was a Great deal. I use it now in my office set-up, as I just can't sell it.


----------



## havagr8da

The LP fronted by the Black Ice Dac with any headphone is a pure joy. The old adage is garbage in garbage out. On the flip side goodness in goodness out is what you get with the LP fed by a Black Ice  Dac. Props to the Icons of the hobby, the greats such as Alex Cavalli and Jim Fosgate. Huge respect and a big Thank You for bringing to us affordable products that are surely the best bang for the buck.
 Thank you! Jim and Alex.


----------



## Old Music Lover

Shane D said:


> The LP is a great amp via a balanced cable. Tons of power and the sound is great. It really fills out the sound.
> If they are still on sale for $399.00, that is a killer deal.
> 
> Personally I do love my LS, but it has much less power. I bought an open box for $80.00 which was a Great deal. I use it now in my office set-up, as I just can't sell it.


It is still on sale. Only took a week to get here. Out of the box sounds great. I am using the balanced cable from my Kann Cube and I have the Hart xlr cable with my Ananda's.


----------



## Gjoel

I just got my LP last week, and i love it with my HD800s, but..

When I was listening today, suddenly, there was a little "pop" and no more sound. It maybe smelled a little burned, maybe just hot..

It turns on, and the tubes gets power. If I turn the volume up to max, I can hear the music like a whisper.

I use Astell kern SR 15 as source and Sennheiser HD800s Headphones, they both work as they should.

My quess would be the opamps dosnt work anymore, or is it something els?


----------



## jaker782

Gjoel said:


> I just got my LP last week, and i love it with my HD800s, but..
> 
> When I was listening today, suddenly, there was a little "pop" and no more sound. It maybe smelled a little burned, maybe just hot..
> 
> ...



That sucks!  Just curious, how were you connecting your DAP to the amp?  What cable was used?


----------



## Gjoel

Did use 3.5m from DAP  to 2x RCA to AMP


----------



## jaker782

Gjoel said:


> Did use 3.5m from DAP  to 2x RCA to AMP



Good, just making sure you didn't go balanced out of DAP to rca in, which is not recommended and could damage your amp.


----------



## George Chronis

Is there a post or a separate thread recommending tubes for this amp, folks? I just bought it and I'm trying to read through, but until I catch up with the thread, if someone has a quick link, that would help. Thank you!


----------



## Slade01

George Chronis said:


> Is there a post or a separate thread recommending tubes for this amp, folks? I just bought it and I'm trying to read through, but until I catch up with the thread, if someone has a quick link, that would help. Thank you!



Here it is:   Liquid Platinum Tube Rollers. | Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org (head-fi.org)


----------



## George Chronis

Slade01 said:


> Here it is:   Liquid Platinum Tube Rollers. | Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org (head-fi.org)


Thank you so much!


----------



## cshum

This amp has truly been an interesting ride for me! Didn't expect to like it so much, or to even hear much of a difference compared to the THX 788 that I own. Hilariously enough, the THX has pretty much been demoted to DAC duty only these days..


----------



## Ham Sandwich

George Chronis said:


> Is there a post or a separate thread recommending tubes for this amp, folks? I just bought it and I'm trying to read through, but until I catch up with the thread, if someone has a quick link, that would help. Thank you!



The tube rolling thread for the Liquid Platinum is a bit crazy. Crazy for the wallet and churning. The stock Electro-Harmonix tubes that come with the amp are fine. I use new production Gold Lion E88CC/6922 tubes in my Liquid Platinum and Liquid Fire. The Gold Lion tubes are about $90-ish for a matched pair. And they're fine for me and my ears and gear.

I don't think it is wise to be churning through multiple hundreds of dollars worth of tubes for the Liquid Platinum. If you're rolling through $500+ worth of tubes for this amp I think that money would be better spent put towards a Liquid Gold X. Some of the tube rolling is a quest to try to get the Liquid Platinum to sound more close to what the Liquid Gold X sounds like, but will never be able to achieve (the Liquid Gold X is the better amp). Instead of rolling through $1000 worth of tubes for the LP just buy the Liquid Gold X. And be happy with new production tubes like the Gold Lion in the LP. The Liquid Platinum and Liquid Gold X compliment each other. It is worth having both.


----------



## George Chronis

Thank you. I have a pair of new gold lions from my Mjolnir 2 and I installed them in the LP yesterday. First time out of the box and straight out of an iPhone in SE with an E-MU Teak balanced sounded really nice to me. I couldn’t resist the sale price, so it’s sitting on my nightstand now. I can only imagine when it breaks in and I put a DAC with it running balanced. Waiting for the Cavali one just because it matches, but I’ll try it with the Mojo and Gungnir MB in the meantime. Thanks for the advice.


----------



## Wes S

Tubes make a substantial difference with the LP.  Just read through the tube rolling thread and you we see some guys that know what good sound is and have the gear to hear it, are saying about tube rolling with the LP.    The stock tubes or any new production tubes, can't hold a candle next to some of the better NOS tubes.


----------



## Crunchiumo

Hi everyone this is my first post on Head-Fi. Been reading the forum for years and decided to make a post. Got my liquid platinum and am still in the process of burning it in. This is my first tube amp and I'm enjoying it so far. Pairs well with the HD 600 and aeolus as others have mentioned. Sound is nuanced with a relaxed presentation different from the Schiit Mjolnir I was using before which was more forward with a lot of macro dynamic energy.

Monoprice sent the amp with some discount codes. Since I'm not living in the states I'll just post them here for anyone to use. Happy Thanksgiving! 

Doordash code: SRB1WHG (20% off 3 orders + $0 delivery fee on your first order)
HelloFresh code: A6898 - 6433 ($80 off including free shipping on your first box)


----------



## Dawnrazor

Wes S said:


> Tubes make a substantial difference with the LP.  Just read through the tube rolling thread and you we see some guys that know what good sound is and have the gear to hear it, are saying about tube rolling with the LP.    The stock tubes or any new production tubes, can't hold a candle next to some of the better NOS tubes.


which ones are good?


----------



## nwavesailor (Nov 28, 2020)

Dawnrazor said:


> which ones are good?


Ya gotta do just a little work @Dawnrazor !
I know we all want someone to just say "THIS is the tube you want!" @Wes S pointed you to the info you need to learn a bit. There are no one size fits all in tubes. There are plenty of good ones but what you may like and works for you may not be what I enjoy.

A lot of us have thousands of dollars of tubes that are good but we like these ones better!!!


----------



## PopZeus

So, my DACs all have SE output level of 2.5v. Is that going to be a problem for the LP? I'm hearing some distortion in the signal that sounds beyond what is normal for tubes.


----------



## Guidostrunk

No. The LP will convert your SE input to a balanced output internally. 


PopZeus said:


> So, my DACs all have SE output level of 2.5v. Is that going to be a problem for the LP? I'm hearing some distortion in the signal that sounds beyond what is normal for tubes.


----------



## PopZeus (Nov 29, 2020)

Guidostrunk said:


> No. The LP will convert your SE input to a balanced output internally.


I understand that part. I was more referring to the amount of voltage in the SE line level input that then gets 2x by the LP's internal circuitry. Not all line levels are set to 2.5v. some are only 2v, while some are 2.2v. I would imagine that tube amps are more sensitive to changes in the line level input voltage, causing gain issues down the chain, potentially running parts hotter than tolerance over time. And some have implied that power attenuation is necessary in other cases where the voltage was not matched. Not sure if I'm just making all this up in the case of the LP, but I thought it worth asking since user manual makes no mention of the input voltage for either balanced or SE.


----------



## Wes S

Dawnrazor said:


> which ones are good?


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/liquid-platinum-tube-rollers.898852/


----------



## kenk

Has anyone considered the new (ish) Audio Note electrolytic caps instead of the Silmic for the mod? Generally speaking they tend to be warmer, but still a upgrade. Haven't tried in the Cavalli, so just kind of curious why folks are centered around the Silmic, which does tend to be brighter in other circuits I have tried it in.


----------



## MikeW (Dec 7, 2020)

I don't know how I feel about rolling countless, ridiculously expensive NOS tubes in this amp. I've tried a couple of sets of nos tubes, Amperex A Frame, and another pair of 120$ nos tubes(7308? amperex).. I prefer stock tubes honestly. Perhaps I have not tried enough tubes. I did notice significant improvements across the board with the re-cap project, silmic's everywhere except the front cap is a muse. It's not really close in my case, I prefer the stock tubes, I prefered them before I modded, and even moreso after. I also have a pretty decent source attached (RME ADI-2) with Parametric EQ, which I used quite abit when the LP was stock with stock tubes, however, I really enjoy the way the LP sounds with no EQ now that it is modded. I don't find Silmic II's to be particular bright, they lean warm IMO, but less so then the panasonic's that are stock. I feel like the mod just improves the amp, on a technical, base level. Less distortion, less capacitor coloration,  you can hear deeper into the sound, blacker background, and much better high's, bass is more punchy as well. I want tubes for sound stage, 3d, and some distortion, i couldn't  really care less about their EQ profile as it's easily adjusted for.


----------



## kenk

MikeW said:


> I don't know how I feel about rolling countless, ridiculously expensive NOS tubes in this amp.



I agree with you, I’m very happy with JJ production tubes.


----------



## blackdragon87

these are no longer offered for sale at 399. glad i got mine before they went to the normal price


----------



## PopZeus (Dec 9, 2020)

Yeah, I really like the LP so far, even when my DAP is acting as a DAC. In a mad rush to side-grade my chain to better pair with the Aeolus, I also picked up an A90 and, not gonna lie, I don't think it's for me. We'll see once my DAC arrives but the fact that really only works when run fully balanced, the lackluster preamp mode, as well as the low input voltage requirement, means I haven't gotten rid of my THX 789 yet. The sound quality from the A90 is very clean and smooth but lacks dimensionality that the Liquid Platinum has. In terms of detail it wins, but the overall sound is so sterile. Once I get the Ares II in, I'll be able to tell how much better these amps sound at 2.2v instead of 2.5v.


----------



## Roderick

Any confirmed cases that channel balance has improved with burn in or is it always the pot? I just got my LP and it is pretty much useless. Right side is barely audible until 10 o'clock and I have to go 12 to get perfect balance. I was wondering should I just contact monoprice or keep the amp running few days first.


----------



## jnak00

Roderick said:


> Any confirmed cases that channel balance has improved with burn in or is it always the pot? I just got my LP and it is pretty much useless. Right side is barely audible until 10 o'clock and I have to go 12 to get perfect balance. I was wondering should I just contact monoprice or keep the amp running few days first.



10:00 to hear the right channel is too high.  I would get that amp replaced.  I personally don't even turn the volume up over 9:00-9:30.  

I feel like the channel imbalance in mine did improve a little, but on my amp the imbalance was pretty minor and the improvement might just be in my head.


----------



## A Jedi

Roderick said:


> Any confirmed cases that channel balance has improved with burn in or is it always the pot? I just got my LP and it is pretty much useless. Right side is barely audible until 10 o'clock and I have to go 12 to get perfect balance. I was wondering should I just contact monoprice or keep the amp running few days first.



I bought one a month ago that had the same problem. Emailed them for an exchange and the new one is working as expected.


----------



## kenk

Channel imbalance can be caused by tubes, so swap them left to right. If you still have the issue, it wont get better and is the volume unit. The first unit I had was perfect but the power supply went out. Subsequent 2 units had balance issues. 3rd unit is great, and has better range than the first one (first one had very little adjustment range). Annoying but the units carry a great warranty that Monoprice stands by.


----------



## Voxata

Roderick said:


> Any confirmed cases that channel balance has improved with burn in or is it always the pot? I just got my LP and it is pretty much useless. Right side is barely audible until 10 o'clock and I have to go 12 to get perfect balance. I was wondering should I just contact monoprice or keep the amp running few days first.



This is widespread with all current units. Sounds like you've got a REALLY bad one so I'd suggest an RMA or deciding if you can deal with it. I do mod quite a few LPs and all the newer ones that have hit my bench suffer this problem to a varying degree. The only way to avoid this is to use some sort of pre and keep your amp volume 12 o'clock+.


----------



## Roderick

Thanks for the replies everyone. I switched the tubes around but that did nothing. I'll email monoprice and see how it goes. Hopefully it does not get too complicated since I'm in europe.


----------



## raphaelchan

I have Beyerdynamic T1 V2 and ZMF Aeolus. I find myself switching back and forth for my cans quite often coz i love them both. I am wondering if there is a good passive 4pin xlr switcher so that i don't have to pul the xlr jacks from LP that often? Thanks for suggestion.


----------



## LCMusicLover

raphaelchan said:


> I have Beyerdynamic T1 V2 and ZMF Aeolus. I find myself switching back and forth for my cans quite often coz i love them both. I am wondering if there is a good passive 4pin xlr switcher so that i don't have to pul the xlr jacks from LP that often? Thanks for suggestion.


Not that I could find, and I've searched extensively.  You can find 'dual 3-pin XLR' switchers, but then you need dual 3-pin to single 4-pin adapters,  times 3.


----------



## sennfan83261

raphaelchan said:


> I have Beyerdynamic T1 V2 and ZMF Aeolus. I find myself switching back and forth for my cans quite often coz i love them both. I am wondering if there is a good passive 4pin xlr switcher so that i don't have to pul the xlr jacks from LP that often? Thanks for suggestion.


There's sellers like Hart Audio Cables that sell interconnect cable systems so that you can switch between different types of  headphone cables without pulling out the XLR connector from the LP's XLR jack. If you are handy with a soldering iron, then you can make your own: 4-pin XLR male jack - cable - 4pin minixlr female <> 4pin minixlr male - cable - dual 3 pin mini xlr jacks |  4pin minixlr male - cable - dual 3.5mm TRS jacks | etc.


----------



## TK16

Posted this in the LP tube rollers, really good price on 1958 long plate 7316. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-BECKM...760a4cc0a4000f1fffe5414|iid:1&redirect=mobile


----------



## Rattle

raphaelchan said:


> I have Beyerdynamic T1 V2 and ZMF Aeolus. I find myself switching back and forth for my cans quite often coz i love them both. I am wondering if there is a good passive 4pin xlr switcher so that i don't have to pul the xlr jacks from LP that often? Thanks for suggestion.



If it's any help, I've had my LP over 2 years since launch. I swap headphones a lot and the XLR connection on the amp is still snug and has a nice almost click when it seats and hits home. I don't think you have to worry unless you are going to swap headphones like 100 times a week or something constantly.


----------



## Shane D

Roderick said:


> Any confirmed cases that channel balance has improved with burn in or is it always the pot? I just got my LP and it is pretty much useless. Right side is barely audible until 10 o'clock and I have to go 12 to get perfect balance. I was wondering should I just contact monoprice or keep the amp running few days first.



Wow, my balance was good from the start. 
And I can NEVER even get  to 12:00. The loudest I can go with any headphone is 11:00. Of course I am a quiet listener (mostly below 75Db's).

I would say call Monoprice and get a replacement.


----------



## Curtisvill

TK16 said:


> Posted this in the LP tube rollers, really good price on 1958 long plate 7316.



TK16 always finds the goods and his reccomendations are spot on.


----------



## Shane D

sennfan83261 said:


> There's sellers like Hart Audio Cables that sell interconnect cable systems so that you can switch between different types of  headphone cables without pulling out the XLR connector from the LP's XLR jack. If you are handy with a soldering iron, then you can make your own: 4-pin XLR male jack - cable - 4pin minixlr female <> 4pin minixlr male - cable - dual 3 pin mini xlr jacks |  4pin minixlr male - cable - dual 3.5mm TRS jacks | etc.



I have a package on the way from HAC now. I can't test my new 'phones (LCD-2 Classic's) with the LP until it gets here. In St Louis today and I am in Canada, so it will be a while yet!


----------



## Roderick (Dec 14, 2020)

Shane D said:


> Wow, my balance was good from the start.
> And I can NEVER even get  to 12:00. The loudest I can go with any headphone is 11:00. Of course I am a quiet listener (mostly below 75Db's).
> 
> I would say call Monoprice and get a replacement.


Yup... It's pretty crazy. Amp is fine if I drop volume on my dac about %30 so I could keep using it. It's a nice amp. I'm not sure if I'd like a refund or have it replaced.

I emailed monoprice about the issue last week. No response yet. I would need some clarification on the overseas return process. I did not do much research how it goes with international buyers. I really did not expect I have to send it back. 

On the site it says I can return it for 30 days and after that I have to pay for the shipment if there is a problem with the unit. Shipping from Finland to Usa is about $150. And it might take more than 30 days to deliver. I don't know if I have 30 days to mail it  or does it have to reach USA within that time. Using a faster shipping method would propably cost more than the amp.


----------



## Shane D

Roderick said:


> Yup... It's pretty crazy. Amp is fine if I drop volume on my dac about %30 so I could keep using it. It's a nice amp. I'm not sure if I'd like a refund or have it replaced.
> 
> I emailed monoprice about the issue last week. No response yet. I would need some clarification on the overseas return process. I did not do much research how it goes with international buyers. I really did not expect I have to send it back.
> 
> On the site it says I can return it for 30 days and after that I have to pay for the shipment if there is a problem with the unit. Shipping from Finland to Usa is about $150. And it might take more than 30 days to deliver. I don't know if I have 30 days to mail it  or does it have to reach USA within that time. Using a faster shipping method would propably cost more than the amp.



Tough on the shipping! 

Have you ever looked at Violectric/Lake People amps out of Germany? Great products and way closer to home.
I bought a used Violectric V220 this year for the same price as the new LP ($1,000.00 in Canadian $'s).

Lake People is much cheaper.


----------



## Roderick

I'm familiar with violetric but never heard one. I used to have SPL Phonitor 2730. Great amp, I had it for many years. Year ago I realised I mostly listen to Campfire Andromedas and I sold my desktop setup, amps/dacs/hd800/th900 etc..

Now I'm back with fullsize headphones. I've been looking into tube/hybrid amps for Focal Utopia and ended up ordering the LP. What I really want is Feliks Euforia but that is out of my budget and I would need something that is more suited for a house with small kids. Tubes would either need a cover or those should be allmost inside the amp like on LP.

Being disappointed with monoprices quality control I don't know if I want to risk a replacing he unit. If I have to ship new one back too it's a lot of time without an amp.


----------



## raphaelchan

sennfan83261 said:


> There's sellers like Hart Audio Cables that sell interconnect cable systems so that you can switch between different types of  headphone cables without pulling out the XLR connector from the LP's XLR jack. If you are handy with a soldering iron, then you can make your own: 4-pin XLR male jack - cable - 4pin minixlr female <> 4pin minixlr male - cable - dual 3 pin mini xlr jacks |  4pin minixlr male - cable - dual 3.5mm TRS jacks | etc.


too bad I am not handy.especially after I was electrocuted as a kid at home country 220v building oscilloscope. lost the function of my right arm for 2 weeks...


----------



## jnak00

@Roderick Does your DAC have a volume control?  You could reduce the volume at the source to gain usable volume control on the amp


----------



## Roderick

jnak00 said:


> @Roderick Does your DAC have a volume control?  You could reduce the volume at the source to gain usable volume control on the amp


Yes. 


Roderick said:


> Amp is fine if I drop volume on my dac about %30 so I could keep using it. It's a nice amp. I'm not sure if I'd like a refund or have it replaced.


I could live with the problem but channel imbalance this big will decrease the amps re-sale value. These are still quite expensive and hard to get in europe. There is of course the matter of principle. Selling untested products and hoping people will settle is not a business model I want to support. Still I am kind of tempted to keep it because I'm lazy 😁


----------



## chaz_flhr

raphaelchan said:


> I have Beyerdynamic T1 V2 and ZMF Aeolus. I find myself switching back and forth for my cans quite often coz i love them both. I am wondering if there is a good passive 4pin xlr switcher so that i don't have to pul the xlr jacks from LP that often? Thanks for suggestion.


If there isn't such a thing it seems like a great idea one could even employ volume control on each would be great device for A/B headphones just use a  sound meter to set both to the same dB


----------



## ceiji (Dec 21, 2020)

nvm


----------



## adamos (Dec 21, 2020)

Looks like it’s back on sale for $399.99 again at Monoprice.


----------



## raphaelchan

jnak00 said:


> @Roderick Does your DAC have a volume control?  You could reduce the volume at the source to gain usable volume control on the amp


yes it does. What I didn't realize was that LP needs power to drive as oppose to Jot. I am good now thanks.


----------



## A Jedi

raphaelchan said:


> What I didn't realize was that LP needs power to drive



Huh? What do you mean by that? LP has plenty of power.


----------



## Jimmyblues1959 (Dec 22, 2020)

adamos said:


> Looks like it’s back on sale for $399.99 again at Monoprice.



Yes it is.  Just bought a Liquid Platinum from the Monoprice Website this morning.  Not sure if the price will stay at $399.99 or go back up again after the
Holidays are over.


----------



## raphaelchan

A Jedi said:


> Huh? What do you mean by that? LP has plenty of power.


I meant i need to turn up the volume of my DAC higher for LP then Jot. I thought it was the other way round. I am a newbie even matching volume for comparison is a new concept to me


----------



## sennfan83261

Jimmyblues1959 said:


> Yes it is.  Just bought a Liquid Platinum from the Monoprice Website this morning.  Not sure if the price will stay at $399.99 or go back up again after the
> Holidays are over.


Quite the amp collection you have there. Looking forward to seeing your impressions of the LP compared to some of them. I do think that the stock tubes are just okay out of the box. They definitely do need burn-in to sound decent.


----------



## Jimmyblues1959 (Dec 22, 2020)

sennfan83261 said:


> Quite the amp collection you have there. Looking forward to seeing your impressions of the LP compared to some of them. I do think that the stock tubes are just okay out of the box. They definitely do need burn-in to sound decent.



Thanks! So do you. 😊   I have been reading about the LP for the past year and at this price decided to give it a try.  Will post impressions in the future. Happy Holidays!


----------



## A Jedi (Dec 22, 2020)

Turn the DAC volume all the way up and do all volume control with the amp. How much you have turn the volume up on one amp vs another has no bearing on anything.


----------



## chaz_flhr

kenk said:


> Has anyone considered the new (ish) Audio Note electrolytic caps instead of the Silmic for the mod? Generally speaking they tend to be warmer, but still a upgrade. Haven't tried in the Cavalli, so just kind of curious why folks are centered around the Silmic, which does tend to be brighter in other circuits I have tried it in.


I am considering the cap mod but I don’t want to add any brightness and I prefer warmth to brightness so I will have to do some more research thanks for the viewpoint.


----------



## chaz_flhr

jaker782 said:


> Good, just making sure you didn't go balanced out of DAP to rca in, which is not recommended and could damage your amp.


If you have a balanced out from your dap you can go balanced out of dap to dual 3 pin XLR adapter on liquid Platinum it works well.


----------



## Slim1970

chaz_flhr said:


> I am considering the cap mod but I don’t want to add any brightness and I prefer warmth to brightness so I will have to do some more research thanks for the viewpoint.


The cap mod doesn't add brightness. It does improve clarity and detail. The choice of tubes mainly dictates how the LP will sound after the cap mod. The cap mod ensures that you're hearing how the tube is influencing the sound instead of the electronics.


----------



## nwavesailor

Slim1970 said:


> The cap mod doesn't add brightness. It does improve clarity and detail. The choice of tubes mainly dictates how the LP will sound after the cap mod. The cap mod ensures that you're hearing how the tube is influencing the sound instead of the electronics.



Yup......... well said @Slim1970 !


----------



## Wes S

Slim1970 said:


> The cap mod doesn't add brightness. It does improve clarity and detail. The choice of tubes mainly dictates how the LP will sound after the cap mod. The cap mod ensures that you're hearing how the tube is influencing the sound instead of the electronics.


I concur.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Exactly this!


Slim1970 said:


> The cap mod doesn't add brightness. It does improve clarity and detail. The choice of tubes mainly dictates how the LP will sound after the cap mod. The cap mod ensures that you're hearing how the tube is influencing the sound instead of the electronics.


----------



## jaker782

chaz_flhr said:


> If you have a balanced out from your dap you can go balanced out of dap to dual 3 pin XLR adapter on liquid Platinum it works well.



This is exactly how I connected my ZX507 to the LP.  Worked great since you can lower volume on the DAP to offset the high gain of the amp.


----------



## chaz_flhr (Dec 23, 2020)

thanks guys appreciate the feedback I will be sending off my LP after Christmas to Keith for the upgrade. The tonality with my 1958 Bugle boy Holland d getter ( thanks Wes )with more detail and clarity will be just  the ticket.


----------



## chaz_flhr

jaker782 said:


> This is exactly how I connected my ZX507 to the LP.  Worked great since you can lower volume on the DAP to offset the high gain of the amp.


I would imagine many of the upper midrange to high end DAP’s rival many older standalone DAC’s in competency.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Couple years old photo of mine....

I do this....with the Spark and an ECC88 tube buffer and like it a lot....

I wonder how close this comes to the Liquid Platinum?

Cheers all...


----------



## Jimmyblues1959 (Dec 29, 2020)

JazzVinyl said:


> Couple years old photo of mine....
> 
> I do this....with the Spark and an ECC88 tube buffer and like it a lot....
> 
> ...



I've used my LS with an FX tube buffer and it really sounds nice.

The LS and the LP both have the Cavalli house sound.   But the LP has much more power and more of everything else.

They're both great for the money.


----------



## kenk

Guidostrunk said:


> Exactly this!


Im not questioning the mod, however I do wonder out loud why folks seem to insist the Slimic is the best fit? Did I miss a comparison post? The Audio Notes are the descendants / evolution of Black Gates. Both Slimic and Audio Note are audio grade, and well rated spec wise. Tempted to try myself, but not really sure I want to mod...


----------



## Jimmyblues1959

kenk said:


> Im not questioning the mod, however I do wonder out loud why folks seem to insist the Slimic is the best fit? Did I miss a comparison post? The Audio Notes are the descendants / evolution of Black Gates. Both Slimic and Audio Note are audio grade, and well rated spec wise. Tempted to try myself, but not really sure I want to mod...



If your amp is still under warranty why mod it and void the warranty?  Unless it's not under warranty anymore  in which
case it makes no difference. 😊


----------



## nwavesailor

I believe it is a bit of a space issue as well as some AN caps in these values may not as available.


----------



## kenk

Jimmyblues1959 said:


> If your amp is still under warranty why mod it and void the warranty?  Unless it's not under warranty anymore  in which
> case it makes no difference. 😊



 Exactly, that’s why I’m probably not going to.


----------



## Jimmyblues1959

kenk said:


> Exactly, that’s why I’m probably not going to.




Just got my LP a few days ago.  Still waiting on a balanced cable, however, it sounds pretty good in SE mode thus far.
Incredible value at $399.99 with a 5 year warranty.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Modding your LP isn't mandatory lol. It's an idea I came up with and am enjoying the benefits of it. As far as the caps chosen. I simply went with what was put in my GLmk2. For me and many others. The mod just takes the amp to another level of performance. 
I almost sold my LP before the mod. That's how big the improvement is. The Alps RK27 pot was icing on the cake. 
Me personally do not find the LP brighter with the Silmics. However,  what you do get is better everything. Details, clarity, bass impact and slam, dynamics, imaging, layering and dimensional space. Things have a way better sense of realism. 


All subjective though. Just my opinion.


----------



## Jimmyblues1959

Guidostrunk said:


> Modding your LP isn't mandatory lol. It's an idea I came up with and am enjoying the benefits of it. As far as the caps chosen. I simply went with what was put in my GLmk2. For me and many others. The mod just takes the amp to another level of performance.
> I almost sold my LP before the mod. That's how big the improvement is. The Alps RK27 pot was icing on the cake.
> Me personally do not find the LP brighter with the Silmics. However,  what you do get is better everything. Details, clarity, bass impact and slam, dynamics, imaging, layering and dimensional space. Things have a way better sense of realism.
> 
> ...



Definitely something to think about for after the warranty expires.   Happy New Year!  😊


----------



## chaz_flhr

Guidostrunk said:


> Modding your LP isn't mandatory lol. It's an idea I came up with and am enjoying the benefits of it. As far as the caps chosen. I simply went with what was put in my GLmk2. For me and many others. The mod just takes the amp to another level of performance.
> I almost sold my LP before the mod. That's how big the improvement is. The Alps RK27 pot was icing on the cake.
> Me personally do not find the LP brighter with the Silmics. However,  what you do get is better everything. Details, clarity, bass impact and slam, dynamics, imaging, layering and dimensional space. Things have a way better sense of realism.
> 
> ...


Shipped mine off to Keith today, is there a general consensus for cap break in time?


----------



## DeweyCH

At $400 how big of an upgrade would this be to a modded Darkvoice with upgraded tubes?


----------



## Wes S

Happy New Year, my fellow LP fans!

I am looking for a pair of 12au7 to 6922 adapters, and was wondering if anyone in this thread has a pair, that they would be willing to sell? I prefer the Tubemonger type, but will consider other options as well. Thanks for your time, and fingers crossed one of you has a spare set they will sell me.


Thanks for your time and happy listening,

Wes


----------



## Guidostrunk

When I got my LP back. I jammed for about 5 hours and let music play until the next day and everything seemed to settle in. Another 5 hour session and let it play again and noticed no changes on the second day of burn in. 
So, have a jam session. Let the music play overnight and you should be good. So I'm guessing 24 hours is good.


chaz_flhr said:


> Shipped mine off to Keith today, is there a general consensus for cap break in time?





chaz_flhr said:


> Shipped mine off to Keith today, is there a general consensus for cap break in time?


----------



## Guidostrunk

What cans are you using with the Darkvoice?. I've never owned one but I did previously own a Woo Wa6 and just the shear power output of the LP makes it the better amp. Going from memory the Woo in comparison was sleepy sounding. Lacks dynamics , impact, slam, details and overall clarity. However the Woo wins in layering and dimensional presence by a smidgen. Lol. 
Like I said. Never owned or heard the darkvoice but its design seems similar to the Woo. 


DeweyCH said:


> At $400 how big of an upgrade would this be to a modded Darkvoice with upgraded tubes?


----------



## ksorota (Jan 1, 2021)

kenk said:


> Im not questioning the mod, however I do wonder out loud why folks seem to insist the Slimic is the best fit? Did I miss a comparison post? The Audio Notes are the descendants / evolution of Black Gates. Both Slimic and Audio Note are audio grade, and well rated spec wise. Tempted to try myself, but not really sure I want to mod...



As @Guidostrunk  stated, he wanted to try the cap mod after trying out the GLMK2 mod. The GLMK2 mod came to be by @lambdastorm  who posted this information https://www.head-fi.org/threads/gilmore-lite-amp-owners-unite.478785/page-24#post-15613813 a few years ago.  He took the time to go through a bunch of caps and concluded that the Silmics were the best balance of detail, ephonics and overall sound for the MK2.

The mod on the LP just went right for the Elna's, but could very well do just as well or better with some audio notes or nichicon muse caps (in fact, the current mod includes the use of one muse cap at the XLR output for increased bass).  I dont have a lot of time to swap/test different caps, especially since everyone has enjoyed the silmics!

One other note, the cap mod also increases the benefits of using 12AU7 tubes in the LP.

Happy New Year and happy listening!

_edit:  after the cap mod, I burn in the amp for a few hours to make sure that the caps are stable and no issues arise under load.  After the first four hours, not much develops...long term, they smooth out and become more dynamic...but that happens very quickly.  Leave it on for a day and the burn in is basically done and no real sonic differences will be immediately obvious.  Brain burn in also occurs!_


----------



## DeweyCH

Guidostrunk said:


> What cans are you using with the Darkvoice?. I've never owned one but I did previously own a Woo Wa6 and just the shear power output of the LP makes it the better amp. Going from memory the Woo in comparison was sleepy sounding. Lacks dynamics , impact, slam, details and overall clarity. However the Woo wins in layering and dimensional presence by a smidgen. Lol.
> Like I said. Never owned or heard the darkvoice but its design seems similar to the Woo.


I'm using Beyer T1.2s now but have a ZMF Verite on the way


----------



## DeweyCH (Jan 1, 2021)

For half off I grabbed one. Will enjoy comparing it to the DV and my THX 887.

I’ve wanted to compare a hybrid with an OTL and a pure solid state for a while.


----------



## TK16

I'm looking for a trade for a pair of GEC A2900 square getter 3x mica pair. Willing to trade for it in the USA. I have tubes I'm willing to trade for with ### in my tube list. Lots of great tubes. PM if you're interested. Trades only please.


----------



## sennfan83261 (Jan 3, 2021)

A matched pair of Reflektors 6n3p ('59, triple micas) came in today, supposedly NOS. Thankfully, they're nice and quiet with the adapters. Initially, bass sounds weighty and full, and the treble is nicely extended and detailed. However, the mids sound a little thin, slightly crispy, and withdrawn, which leads to an impression of slight unnaturalness in the vocals (going back and forth between the two songs linked below), especially when compared to a CTH with a Sylvania 6C8G (Cans: HE500). Still, it is early days yet since there's only a few hours on these NOS tubes. I'll see how they'll end up sounding after many more hours.


----------



## Wes S

sennfan83261 said:


> A matched pair of Reflektors 6n3p ('59, triple micas) came in today, supposedly NOS. Thankfully, they're nice and quiet with the adapters. Initially, bass sounds weighty and full, and the treble is nicely extended and detailed. However, the mids sound a little thin, slightly crispy, and withdrawn, which leads to an impression of slight unnaturalness in the vocals (going back and forth between the two songs linked below), especially when compared to a CTH with a Sylvania 6C8G (Cans: HE500). Still, it is early days yet since there's only a few hours on these NOS tubes. I'll see how they'll end up sounding after many more hours.



I have a set of those Reflektor 6N3P triple mica 50's, that I just rolled yesterday, and totally agree with your assessment.  I am not really a fan of them in the LP.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I agree as well. The 50's foton triple mica is the superior tube to the reflektor. Didn't much care for the reflektor tubes myself for exactly the reason described.


----------



## TK16

You guys can find the Refl 6N3P 50`s 3x here. got 2 pairs from this seller NOS+. Don`t see any Foton 3x but the double mica Foton 6N3P are on Ebay. The Foton are warmer than the Reflektor.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N3P-39...triple-mica-1950x-NOS-Big-getter/224171506697


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> You guys can find the Refl 6N3P 50`s 3x here. got 2 pairs from this seller NOS+. Don`t see any Foton 3x but the double mica Foton 6N3P are on Ebay. The Foton are warmer than the Reflektor.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N3P-39...triple-mica-1950x-NOS-Big-getter/224171506697


That's where I got mine.  I sure would like to find some Foton's. . .I even put an ad in the classifieds.


----------



## DeweyCH

Anyone know what the shipping time is for these right now? I ordered one a few days ago and it has yet to ship.


----------



## Jimmyblues1959 (Jan 4, 2021)

DeweyCH said:


> Anyone know what the shipping time is for these right now? I ordered one a few days ago and it has yet to ship.



My Liquid Platinum was ordered on 12/22, shipped on 12/22, and it arrived on 12/24 via FedEx....


----------



## DeweyCH

Jimmyblues1959 said:


> My Liquid Platinum was ordered on 12/22, shipped on 12/22, and it arrived on 12/24 via FedEx....


I ordered mine on the 1st and have yet to get a shipping notification. Guess it's the New Year holidays.


----------



## Wes S

DeweyCH said:


> I ordered mine on the 1st and have yet to get a shipping notification. Guess it's the New Year holidays.


I would reach out to them, as they have always shipped my stuff same day.


----------



## DeweyCH

Wes S said:


> I would reach out to them, as they have always shipped my stuff same day.


Done and done, should ship today. Thanks!


----------



## Jimmyblues1959

DeweyCH said:


> I ordered mine on the 1st and have yet to get a shipping notification. Guess it's the New Year holidays.



Yes,  I'd contact Monoprice.   At nearly 50% off retail,  lots of people are ordering Liquid Platinums, so Monoprice may be
restocking before they can ship.   On the positive side,  $399.99 for the LP is a real bargain.  Especially with the 5 year
warranty.   Hope you fellow LP owners enjoy yours and have a Healthy and Happy New Year! 😊


----------



## Jimmyblues1959

DeweyCH said:


> Done and done, should ship today. Thanks!



Congrat's.  Enjoy! 😊


----------



## DeweyCH

Once this arrives, I'm excited to test it out, as well as a pair of super well-matched Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8/ECC88s. Can I expect these to be a pretty darned big upgrade over the stock tubes, and where should I be looking for bigger and badder tube-rolling options?

Example, my Darkvoice has a Tung-Sol 5998 power tube and a few different options for the pre tube (Shuguang Treasure, various vintage RCA, TS and Sylvania 6SN7s/6J5s/6F8Gs). I've skimmed the tube rolling thread a bit, but what's y'all's favorite tube combos, and with what headphones?


----------



## Wes S

DeweyCH said:


> Once this arrives, I'm excited to test it out, as well as a pair of super well-matched Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8/ECC88s. Can I expect these to be a pretty darned big upgrade over the stock tubes, and where should I be looking for bigger and badder tube-rolling options?
> 
> Example, my Darkvoice has a Tung-Sol 5998 power tube and a few different options for the pre tube (Shuguang Treasure, various vintage RCA, TS and Sylvania 6SN7s/6J5s/6F8Gs). I've skimmed the tube rolling thread a bit, but what's y'all's favorite tube combos, and with what headphones?


Nice!  The Bugle Boys are a good baseline, and smoke the new production stock tubes.  As far as favorite tubes and headphone pairing. . . 

The Valvo Hamburg ECC82 Long Plate Foil D-getters 56' and ZMF Aelous, is my favorite combo. Along with my Gungnir Multibit, this setup puts you "there" with the musicians, and is addictive as heck to listen with.


----------



## DeweyCH

Wes S said:


> Nice!  The Bugle Boys are a good baseline, and smoke the new production stock tubes.  As far as favorite tubes and headphone pairing. . .
> 
> The Valvo Hamburg ECC82 Long Plate Foil D-getters 56' and ZMF Aelous, is my favorite combo. Along with my Gungnir Multibit, this setup puts you "there" with the musicians, and is addictive as heck to listen with.


Nice, thank you! I'm awaiting two pairs of ZMF headphones from their November specials - some one-off Auteurs and a pair of stabilized VCs. I love the idea of being right there with the musicians. Time being though, my Beyer 1.2s loooooove tubes.


----------



## Wes S

DeweyCH said:


> Nice, thank you! I'm awaiting two pairs of ZMF headphones from their November specials - some one-off Auteurs and a pair of stabilized VCs. I love the idea of being right there with the musicians. Time being though, my Beyer 1.2s loooooove tubes.


Nice man!  You will love those ZMF'S with the LP.


----------



## YtseJamer (Jan 4, 2021)

In my opinion the Liquid Platinum is one of the best 'affordable' amp for the Aeolus.


----------



## Wes S

I concur.


----------



## sennfan83261

TK16 said:


> You guys can find the Refl 6N3P 50`s 3x here. got 2 pairs from this seller NOS+. Don`t see any Foton 3x but the double mica Foton 6N3P are on Ebay. The Foton are warmer than the Reflektor.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N3P-39...triple-mica-1950x-NOS-Big-getter/224171506697


Yeah, that is where I got my Reflektors from. This seller is also where I grabbed my '60s 2x mica Fotons, which I preferred more compared to the '50 Reflektors. The seller even tossed me a third 2x mica Foton, which was a good thing since one of the Fotons (the one that was much more brightly lit) was noisy when paired with the other Foton. The third Foton exhibited no noise or hum when paired with the other non-brightly lit Foton. I'll toss the noisy Foton in my CTH to see if the tube still exhibits noise when by itself.


----------



## Wes S

sennfan83261 said:


> Yeah, that is where I got my Reflektors from. This seller is also where I grabbed my '60s 2x mica Fotons, which I preferred more compared to the '50 Reflektors. The seller even tossed me a third 2x mica Foton, which was a good thing since one of the Fotons (the one that was much more brightly lit) was noisy when paired with the other Foton. The third Foton exhibited no noise or hum when paired with the other non-brightly lit Foton. I'll toss the noisy Foton in my CTH to see if the tube still exhibits noise when by itself.


I am on the hunt for some Foton's, and it appears that seller's stock has finally dried up.  I am kicking myself for not picking up a pair, back in the day.


----------



## Jimmyblues1959

Wes S said:


> I concur.



Have not had much time listening to my LP yet,  because I have been demoing a DNA Starlett for the past few weeks.   If the LP 
gets even close to the Starlett I will be very pleased.   Finally got a balanced cable so I can start giving the LP a more serious listen..


----------



## TK16

sennfan83261 said:


> Yeah, that is where I got my Reflektors from. This seller is also where I grabbed my '60s 2x mica Fotons, which I preferred more compared to the '50 Reflektors. The seller even tossed me a third 2x mica Foton, which was a good thing since one of the Fotons (the one that was much more brightly lit) was noisy when paired with the other Foton. The third Foton exhibited no noise or hum when paired with the other non-brightly lit Foton. I'll toss the noisy Foton in my CTH to see if the tube still exhibits noise when by itself.


The LP is more susceptible to have higher chance of noise with 6N3P compared to other amps along with 5670  2c51, 396A. These tubes have a higher amplification factor than all 6DJ8 tubes and 12AU7 variants I mentioned.


----------



## blackdragon87

looks like its back at its normal price again


----------



## DeweyCH

blackdragon87 said:


> looks like its back at its normal price again


Looks to be. Glad I ordered when I did.


----------



## blackdragon87

DeweyCH said:


> Looks to be. Glad I ordered when I did.



same lol


----------



## Jimmyblues1959

blackdragon87 said:


> same lol



Ditto. 😊


----------



## DeweyCH

There seems to be a hum in this. I assume the stock tubes take a bit of burn in to get past it?


----------



## Jimmyblues1959 (Jan 9, 2021)

DeweyCH said:


> There seems to be a hum in this. I assume the stock tubes take a bit of burn in to get past it?



Just got my  LP a week back and no hum at all.  Sounds like a grounding problem. If you keep your LP near your computer I'd move it away from the computer to see if that gets rid of the hum.  Also, (while the amp is off) check to see if the tubes are seated properly.

Good luck! 😊


----------



## Ham Sandwich

DeweyCH said:


> There seems to be a hum in this. I assume the stock tubes take a bit of burn in to get past it?



Are you using the single-ended headphone output or the balanced headphone output?

The balanced headphone part of the amp circuit cancels out some hum and distortions that can be present on the single-ended output.


----------



## DeweyCH

Ham Sandwich said:


> Are you using the single-ended headphone output or the balanced headphone output?
> 
> The balanced headphone part of the amp circuit cancels out some hum and distortions that can be present on the single-ended output.


It seems to be caused by the 4.4mm/XLR adapter I got to connect my ifi zen blue with


----------



## Ham Sandwich

DeweyCH said:


> It seems to be caused by the 4.4mm/XLR adapter I got to connect my ifi zen blue with



The LP does have a phase splitter on the RCA inputs. It is slightly better to use the balanced XLR inputs, but not what I consider a critical or necessary difference. I'm fine with using the RCA inputs. If you have to use the RCA inputs to avoid the hum with that source then use the RCA inputs. But for critical comparisons with other amps it is best to use the balanced inputs to have the amp perform slightly better.

The balanced and unbalanced headphone outputs are a different thing. The amp is designed to be balanced headphone output. The balanced headphone output is why the amp was designed and how it should be listened to. The single-ended output does not sound as good and should be considered as only a convenience headphone jack for the rare occasions when you are trapped in a locked room with only an LP and unbalanced headphones to listen to. The balanced headphone out sounds much better. I ignore the 1/4" TRS jack and only use the 4-pin XLR jack. In fact, I'd prefer that the amp didn't even have the 1/4" TRS jack so people wouldn't use it and judge the amp based on the sound quality of the single-ended output.


----------



## DeweyCH

Ham Sandwich said:


> The LP does have a phase splitter on the RCA inputs. It is slightly better to use the balanced XLR inputs, but not what I consider a critical or necessary difference. I'm fine with using the RCA inputs. If you have to use the RCA inputs to avoid the hum with that source then use the RCA inputs. But for critical comparisons with other amps it is best to use the balanced inputs to have the amp perform slightly better.
> 
> The balanced and unbalanced headphone outputs are a different thing. The amp is designed to be balanced headphone output. The balanced headphone output is why the amp was designed and how it should be listened to. The single-ended output does not sound as good and should be considered as only a convenience headphone jack for the rare occasions when you are trapped in a locked room with only an LP and unbalanced headphones to listen to. The balanced headphone out sounds much better. I ignore the 1/4" TRS jack and only use the 4-pin XLR jack. In fact, I'd prefer that the amp didn't even have the 1/4" TRS jack so people wouldn't use it and judge the amp based on the sound quality of the single-ended output.


That’s great insight, thank you


----------



## Wes S

If anyone is looking for some top notch rare 6922's for their LP, check out my listing.   

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/more-tubes-for-sale-holy-grail-6922-and-variants-nos.951956/


----------



## Jimmyblues1959

YtseJamer said:


> In my opinion the Liquid Platinum is one of the best 'affordable' amp for the Aeolus.




Just received a balanced cable the other day and now breaking my new LP in.  Thus far, it sounds quite good with a 
pair of Hifiman HE4XX in fully balanced mode.  No problems with hum or any volume imbalance.  For $400 the 
LP is a steal.


----------



## FloydCouncil (Jan 11, 2021)

I received a new-to-me Liquid Platinum a few days ago. I use this amp with my Aeolus. First lets get this out of the way: *just wow!* This does not sound like a $500 amplifier. It sounds like a $1000+ amplifier. Coming from a Schiit Valhalla 2 and a Liquid Carbon X, I did not need do any double takes. The difference was immediate. The biggest difference for me was the sound stage. I immediately felt I was in a room with music. The LCX, while a great amplifier, never gave me that feeling. Instruments felt next to me and were too immediate.

All I want to do is listen to music now. It is incredible how engaging my rig sounds now. The low-end is exactly what I was looking for. It is textured and impactful. Drums feels next to my ear and I can imagine being hit very easily. This is particularly notable for me because I felt the Aeolus did not have as much bass as many impressions on the Internet indicated. It sounds great now.

I cannot really write much about the midrange except to say that is probably the most natural midrange I've heard until I start mentioning $20k KEF Reference speakers with proper room acoustics.

Amplifiers I have tried in the past: DarkVoice 336, Beta 22, Schiit Valhalla 2, Liquid Carbon X.

This (when paired with my Aeolus) is by far the most enjoyable and engaging. The Valhalla 2, while a great amplifier, I found was too forward and lacked heft in the low-end. The LCX tamed the mid-range a bit and added some impact to the low-end. The sound-stage, however, suffered considerably. The LP is the best of both worlds!

Simply put: Aeolus + LP just disappear and allow me to completely engaged into the music. I did not feel this with Aeolus + Valhalla/LCX. Some part of the sound was always a little off or bothering me.


----------



## Jimmyblues1959

FloydCouncil said:


> I received a new-to-me Liquid Platinum a few days ago. I use this amp with my Aeolus. First lets get this out of the way: *just wow!* This does not sound like a $500 amplifier. It sounds like a $1000+ amplifier. Coming from a Schiit Valhalla 2 and a Liquid Carbon X, I did not need do any double takes. The difference was immediate. The biggest difference for me was the sound stage. I immediately felt I was in a room with music. The LCX, while a great amplifier, never gave me that feeling. Instruments felt next to me and were too immediate.
> 
> All I want to do is listen to music now. It is incredible how engaging my rig sounds now. The low-end is exactly what I was looking for. It is textured and impactful. Drums feels next to my ear and I can imagine being hit very easily. This is particularly notable for me because I felt the Aeolus did not have as much bass as many impressions on the Internet indicated. It sounds great now.
> 
> ...



Congrat's!   The LP is indeed a great sounding headphone amp.  Very musical, and with plenty of power for both planar magnetic and
dynamic headphones.  I just bought my LP during Monoprice's recent sale.  For $400, this amp is an absolute bargain.

Enjoy! 🌝


----------



## sennfan83261

You guys getting at $400 are getting a great deal. I thought purchasing it over the summer for $450 was an absolute steal. It still is to be honest.


----------



## FloydCouncil

sennfan83261 said:


> You guys getting at $400 are getting a great deal. I thought purchasing it over the summer for $450 was an absolute steal. It still is to be honest.



Mine was little lower than that with tax because I bought it used. I'm going to sell my liquid carbon X and probably purchase by aBiFrost 2 in a couple of months.

 Needless to say, very happy with the purchase. Still thinking about upgrading the capacitors or rolling the tubes. But I love it so much that I don't think I want to change anything right now.

Also, it looks much nicer in person than it does in the pictures.


----------



## Jimmyblues1959

sennfan83261 said:


> You guys getting at $400 are getting a great deal. I thought purchasing it over the summer for $450 was an absolute steal. It still is to be honest.



Yes,  considering that when the LP debuted back in  2018,  people in the States were paying as much as $900 for it, and others from 
outside the US were paying over $1000, the $400 price is a steal.  Especially with the 5 year warranty.  It's back up to $799 again at Monoprice,
however, I'm sure that the LP will be available at the  $399.99 price in the near future.

Happy listening! 😀


----------



## vkenz

this amp seems to operate at a very hot temp.  Is this normal?


----------



## sennfan83261

vkenz said:


> this amp seems to operate at a very hot temp.  Is this normal?


It runs fairly hot, especially since some part of the tubes are still inside of the unit. Given your location, I'd imagine that the amp would be running pretty hot. Best to give it proper clearance and airflow. You can also purchase socket savers that elevate the seating height of the tube. With these, tubes are no longer seated inside of the amp, which makes the amp run a little cooler but still fairly warm. For socket savers, I like these ones from tubemonger. However, it will be a pain to pry them off, as these socket savers get stuck in there pretty good, which is kind of their job. I need to use a set of locking pliers to get mine out.


----------



## shafat777

The LP at any price is an excellent amp. Tons of power, clean, wide imaging with tube flavors are just hard to beat at this price. Monoprice is great with their warranty and customer service. However, if you capmod the lp then it becomes something different. A cap modded LP beat just about any amp in it's price range. Trust me, I have a cap modded LP and that thing can give my elise otl and run for it's money. However, ever since I got my Elise, I haven't been listening to the lp much so I might just sell it. But it's still open hell of an amp.


----------



## Jimmyblues1959

shafat777 said:


> The LP at any price is an excellent amp. Tons of power, clean, wide imaging with tube flavors are just hard to beat at this price. Monoprice is great with their warranty and customer service. However, if you capmod the lp then it becomes something different. A cap modded LP beat just about any amp in it's price range. Trust me, I have a cap modded LP and that thing can give my elise otl and run for it's money. However, ever since I got my Elise, I haven't been listening to the lp much so I might just sell it. But it's still open hell of an amp.




Have been comparing the LP to a DNA Starlett  that I have been demoing, and the LP does surprisingly well.
The Starlett is the better headphone amp. However,  it costs about three times more than the retail price of the 
LP and about five times more than the $399.99 discounted price I purchased my LP for.

That being said,  the Starlett is the better amplifier, and is built to last a lifetime.  The LP
is built more to a price point.  However, it performs quite well at that price point.

The money I saved by purchasing the LP at a discount will go towards the purchase 
of a DNA Starlett in the future, which I consider to also be an excellent value at its $2000 price.

The LP has also found a permanent home in my headphone amp collection, given its fine sound quality and value.

Happy listening! 😊


----------



## Wes S

FloydCouncil said:


> I received a new-to-me Liquid Platinum a few days ago. I use this amp with my Aeolus. First lets get this out of the way: *just wow!* This does not sound like a $500 amplifier. It sounds like a $1000+ amplifier. Coming from a Schiit Valhalla 2 and a Liquid Carbon X, I did not need do any double takes. The difference was immediate. The biggest difference for me was the sound stage. I immediately felt I was in a room with music. The LCX, while a great amplifier, never gave me that feeling. Instruments felt next to me and were too immediate.
> 
> All I want to do is listen to music now. It is incredible how engaging my rig sounds now. The low-end is exactly what I was looking for. It is textured and impactful. Drums feels next to my ear and I can imagine being hit very easily. This is particularly notable for me because I felt the Aeolus did not have as much bass as many impressions on the Internet indicated. It sounds great now.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the club!  

Love my LP and Aelous combo, and it's my # 1, for when I want to be "there" with my favorite musicians.


----------



## Wes S

My final lot of 6922, 7308, and ECC88 for sale, at crazy low prices. 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/red...922-ecc88-rare-holy-grail-tubes-lot-3.952049/


----------



## TK16

Anybody in the USA happen to have a pair of triple mica square getter GEC A2900 you can't use in the LP? Looking for a trade only. Have certain pairs of tubes I'd be willing to trade to do a pair for pair trade. Many holy grails with ### in my profile. Tested on a Hickok 752A. PM if interested. Thanks.


----------



## nwavesailor

TK16 said:


> Anybody in the USA happen to have a pair of triple mica square getter GEC A2900 you can't use in the LP? Looking for a trade only. Have certain pairs of tubes I'd be willing to trade to do a pair for pair trade. Many holy grails with ### in my profile. Tested on a Hickok 752A. PM if interested. Thanks.



Sure, I have PLENTY of those A2900 and wanted to get rid of ay least a pair or 2! 

I have been looking for the some 1988 vitntage Philips 6DJ8 for an even trade????


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> Sure, I have PLENTY of those A2900 and wanted to get rid of ay least a pair or 2!
> 
> I have been looking for the some 1988 vitntage Philips 6DJ8 for an even trade????


Don't have any 1988 6DJ8, sure that was a typo. 😁


----------



## YtseJamer

Great deal for someone in Canada

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649695216-monoprice-liquid-platinum-headphone-amplifier/


----------



## SaddleSC

Hey guys. I have owned my LP for a couple weeks and typically run it balanced from my Schiit Gungnir MB to my HD800S using XLR.

I have a new Chord Qutest inbound this week and I was wondering if anyone can give feedback about how much I will be “hamstringing” the sound quality by running RCA-in but still using a balanced headphone cable. I know the amp was designed to run fully balanced. Just wondering what impact the RCA-in will have overall. Thanks!


----------



## A Jedi

SaddleSC said:


> Hey guys. I have owned my LP for a couple weeks and typically run it balanced from my Schiit Gungnir MB to my HD800S using XLR.
> 
> I have a new Chord Qutest inbound this week and I was wondering if anyone can give feedback about how much I will be “hamstringing” the sound quality by running RCA-in but still using a balanced headphone cable. I know the amp was designed to run fully balanced. Just wondering what impact the RCA-in will have overall. Thanks!



Not much if any. But you can tell us after you try it


----------



## InstantSilence

If running the LP balanced. Feeding it RCA from a dac is till ok right? It's thr best as far as transperancy goes?


----------



## Shane D (Jan 15, 2021)

InstantSilence said:


> If running the LP balanced. Feeding it RCA from a dac is till ok right? It's thr best as far as transperancy goes?



Input is pretty much unimportant with the LP. Output is much more important.


----------



## Jimmyblues1959 (Jan 15, 2021)

Shane D said:


> Input is pretty much unimportant with the LP. Throughout is much more important.




Edited:

Just make sure that you don't use a 4 pin male XLR  to  a 2.5 female TRS adaptor on the balanced output of the LP or you could damage the amplifier.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Jimmyblues1959 said:


> Just make sure that you don't use a balanced to TRRS adaptor on the balanced output of the LP or
> you could damage the amplifier.


Think you mean TRS, not TRRS which is still balanced. I use an extension with my some short cables.  It's male 4-Pin XLR at one end and female 2.5mm TRRS on the other.  I plug male 2.5mm TRRS into the extension -- works fine with no possible damage.

The potential damage comes from connecting a Single-Ended headphone cable into a balanced amp jack.  This shorts the R-neg & L-neg together -- a definite no-no!


----------



## Jimmyblues1959

LCMusicLover said:


> Think you mean TRS, not TRRS which is still balanced. I use an extension with my some short cables.  It's male 4-Pin XLR at one end and female 2.5mm TRRS on the other.  I plug male 2.5mm TRRS into the extension -- works fine with no possible damage.
> 
> The potential damage comes from connecting a Single-Ended headphone cable into a balanced amp jack.  This shorts the R-neg & L-neg together -- a definite no-no!
> [/QUOTE


Availability


There's a post by Dr. Cavalli somewhere back in this thread where he explicitly says not to use an XLR to SE adaptor
on the balanced output of the LP, because it can damage the amplifier.  If I can find the post I will post it when I do.

I don't recall if he said that  XLR to TRRS  would cause a problem or  XLR to TRS that was problematic.

Are you saying that 2.5mm female TRRS to 4 pin XLR is ok, but 2.5mm female TRS to 4 pin XLR is not?

As for balanced inputs, I use single ended cables with XLR adaptors with no problem.

Regarding inputs on headphone amp's, I believe that SE to XLR is fine.  However,  XLR to SE can damage an amp.

With the recent discount on the LP, lots of people are buying them,  and I want to make sure that I am giving them the right info. 😊


----------



## sennfan83261 (Jan 15, 2021)

Jimmyblues1959 said:


> Availability
> 
> 
> There's a post by Dr. Cavalli somewhere back in this thread where he explicitly says not to use an XLR to SE adaptor
> ...


TRRS jacks are balanced (L+/L-/R+/R-) and TRS jacks (L+/R+/G; G = common ground) are SE:







Of course, one needs to make sure that the TRRS jack is wired properly for the adapter as there is apparently no set standard for their wiring. Also, I imagine that one shouldn't insert the TRRS jack into the adapter while the adapter is connected to the amp, as it may cause a short (similar to connecting a TRS jack into the amp's SE output when the amp is on). It is probably best practice to connect the TRSS to the adapter first and then connect the adapter to the amp if the amp is already turned on.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Jimmyblues1959 said:


> Availability
> 
> 
> There's a post by Dr. Cavalli somewhere back in this thread where he explicitly says not to use an XLR to SE adaptor
> ...


TRRS connections of any size (2.5mm, 3.5mm, 4.4mm) are balanced unless it's a cable for an earphone/mic device (that is, for use with a mobile phone or such) or unless there's a weird custom wiring thing going on. The acronym TRRS stands for Tip-Ring-Ring-Shank.  Two poles will be Left positive and Left negative, the other two will be Right positive and Right negative, although the wiring depends on the device manufacturer.  A&K's scheme seems to be a fairly widely implemented standard, but it's not universal.  

Dr. Cavalli was telling us (probably much more eloquently than me) the same thing I was trying to say.  For a single-ended connection (say TRS), one pole is Left, one is Right, and the third is ground.  To make a balanced to SE adapter, you'd have to combine the Left and Right negative signals on one pole.  And that's what is potentially damaging to amps.

It's really nothing to do which physical connection type you're using, except that a TRS jack can never be balanced -- need four poles as in TRRS or 4-pin XLR or something with dual jacks (for example the Bryston BHA-1 has a 4-pin XLR jack, but also dual 3-pin XLR jacks which can serve as a second balanced output).

I haven't seen a 2.5mm TRS jack, but that doesn't matter.  It can't possibly be a balanced connection with only three poles, so can't be used (with any adapter) from a balanced amp. Actually, that's a bit of an exaggeration as there are some balanced amp topologies which reportedly don't object to being connected to single-ended headphones.  Not the LP though.

I don't know about SE vs balanced inputs, so can't help you there, sorry.


----------



## Jimmyblues1959 (Jan 15, 2021)

sennfan83261 said:


> TRRS jacks are balanced (L+/L-/R+/R-) and TRS jacks (L+/R+/G; G = common ground) are SE:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks to both of you for clarifying this!    So as I understand this,   I can use a 4 pin male XLR to 2.5mm female TRRS adaptor from the XLR output of the Liquid Platinum without a problem.  However,  I cannot use a 4 pin male XLR to 2.5mm female TRS adaptor without possibly damaging the LP, because the TRS adaptor is not balanced?

If my headphones have a TRS male plug,  can this plug be plugged into a TRRS female adaptor,  or will this cause a problem too?


----------



## LCMusicLover

Jimmyblues1959 said:


> ... I cannot use a 4 pin male XLR to 2.5mm female
> TRS adaptor without possibly damaging the LP, because the TRS adaptor is not balanced?


Exactly correct, gotta have 4 poles to be balanced.


----------



## Jimmyblues1959

LCMusicLover said:


> Exactly correct, gotta have 4 poles to be balanced.



Thanks again!


----------



## tamleo

Hi,
Does Anybody know if the LP is a class-a or class-ab amp? Tks


----------



## Shane D

Using my LP today via SE. I have not done this for a long time. I wanted to use my DT880's (600 Ohm) and thought why not.
First off, it seems SO weird to see the volume knob go past 12:00. 

I have two inputs set up: XLR and SE via Schiit Loki. Rotating back and forth I think I like the bass boost from the Loki better.

Currently stuck in a Theory Of A Deadman playlist, but I will branch out after it is done. Right now I am really enjoying this combo.


----------



## InstantSilence

Shane D said:


> Using my LP today via SE. I have not done this for a long time. I wanted to use my DT880's (600 Ohm) and thought why not.
> First off, it seems SO weird to see the volume knob go past 12:00.
> 
> I have two inputs set up: XLR and SE via Schiit Loki. Rotating back and forth I think I like the bass boost from the Loki better.
> ...


Do you as well experience transparency from the loki? 
I wonder when loki 2 or an loki upgrade will come out?


----------



## Shane D

InstantSilence said:


> Do you as well experience transparency from the loki?
> I wonder when loki 2 or an loki upgrade will come out?



I find the Loki very subtle, aside from the power boost. In most cases I just look to add a bit of bass and some mids.
A balanced option would be Awesome!


----------



## InstantSilence

Received the modded LP with thr bugle boys. 
I love the sound. Smooth treble, always got to appreciate a smooth treble. 
Not as transparent out of the r back of the tt2. (I am using cheap RCAs from monoprice) 
Its levels of detail are OK, not too impressive. I got some other tubes coming in tomorrow and curious to see how it alters the sound. 
Its definitely an easy listen and will make poorer recordings more forgiving. 
Cool little thing. 
I guess I gotta give it more time. 
The more I listen the more I notice a veil. I guess it's the transperancy not being as clean as the tt2 (of course not a fair comparison between the 2)
I like it, but I'm not blown away. Maybe the tubes will make a bigger difference. 
I think I'd appreciate a tt2 with just a loki that could allow for tuning treble on bad recordings


----------



## InstantSilence

Mids a little grainy. Just not all that transparent, it's not pushing the mids forward as I hope. Maybe I just don't got the right tubes. 
I do appreciate the treble being smooth and inviting. 
I guess I can't imagine the unmodded LP... I'd return it the next day... 
I'll give it a chance... I'd like the vocals more forward. Let's see what the loki does tomorrow


----------



## sennfan83261 (Jan 20, 2021)

InstantSilence said:


> Mids a little grainy. Just not all that transparent, it's not pushing the mids forward as I hope. Maybe I just don't got the right tubes.
> I do appreciate the treble being smooth and inviting.
> I guess I can't imagine the unmodded LP... I'd return it the next day...
> I'll give it a chance... I'd like the vocals more forward. Let's see what the loki does tomorrow


It depends on your cans and the tubes. I don't know which Bugle Boys that you purchased, but they are generally known for being warmer. If you want a more upfront sound, then you can try the stock 6922's so long as they are burned in. 7308's, the well-regarded ones, are not as warm as the bugle boys, are more upfront in their presentation, and offer more clarity. However, they aren't cheap. Anyways, the Cavalli house sound is a bit on the warmish side with thicker mids. If you want to get away from that, then maybe the cap mod is up your alley, or maybe look for another amp.


----------



## InstantSilence

sennfan83261 said:


> It depends on your cans and the tubes. I don't know which Bugle Boys you purchased, but they are generally known for being warmer. If you want a more upfront sound, then you can try the stock 6922's so long as they are burned in. 7308's, the well-regarded ones, are not as warm as the bugle boys and are more upfront in their presentation and offer more clarity. However, they aren't cheap. Anyways, the Cavalli house sound is a bit on the warmish side with thicker mids. If you want to get away from that, then maybe the cap mod is up your alley, or look for another amp.


See I want that, I want the thick mids and warmer sound, in fact I want more of that. But also more clarity at the same time, am I too picky? 
I have the cap mod done on it. 
I enjoy it so far, just need to fight to get more mids, more forward vocals and better clarity, or as much resolution as possible


----------



## nwavesailor

IS, this is your first trip down the tube Rabbit Hole and you may, understandably, be comparing it to what you like in your TT2. 
The LP is a great tube / hybrid amp and, IMO, not much can touch it for the price even when it was introduced at $700-800. Heck your TT2 was $5500 new full retail. You'll find a pair of tubes that work for you and you may also need to get used to the sound. If it isn't your thing, buying used you could likely sell it for what you paid for it!  

Give it a little time........


----------



## SaddleSC

I received my LP directly from Monoprice a couple of weeks ago and I really enjoy the sound running fully balanced, but I am considering selling it because of the volume pot. I do not have any channel imbalance, which is nice, but between 10 and 11 on the dial, the volume significantly jumps, which happens to be right in the range where I listen to my HD800S. So a tiny input on the dial will cause large changes in volume. This significantly diminishes my enjoyment of the amp because I find myself constantly fiddling with it to get the volume just right. I would have been willing to pay more for a better volume pot or a simple gain switch that would really transform the user experience.


----------



## InstantSilence

SaddleSC said:


> I received my LP directly from Monoprice a couple of weeks ago and I really enjoy the sound running fully balanced, but I am considering selling it because of the volume pot. I do not have any channel imbalance, which is nice, but between 10 and 11 on the dial, the volume significantly jumps, which happens to be right in the range where I listen to my HD800S. So a tiny input on the dial will cause large changes in volume. This significantly diminishes my enjoyment of the amp because I find myself constantly fiddling with it to get the volume just right. I would have been willing to pay more for a better volume pot or a simple gain switch that would really transform the user experience.


There are mods the thing can take to supposedly improve performance, even the volume pot. I have a modded one and it's consistent.


----------



## Jimmyblues1959

Shane D said:


> I find the Loki very subtle, aside from the power boost. In most cases I just look to add a bit of bass and some mids.
> A balanced option would be Awesome!



Lots of people have spoken to Mike and Jason about a balanced equalizer.   They will probably just 
build  it quietly and then list it on their products' page.  If they can build one for under $300 I think it would
sell very well.  Really think the LOKI is great.  Always use it regardless of whatever other components I am 
using.


----------



## A Jedi

InstantSilence said:


> Received the modded LP with thr bugle boys.
> I love the sound. Smooth treble, always got to appreciate a smooth treble.
> Not as transparent out of the r back of the tt2. (I am using cheap RCAs from monoprice)
> Its levels of detail are OK, not too impressive. I got some other tubes coming in tomorrow and curious to see how it alters the sound.
> ...



Let the new caps settle down. After modding mine it sounded like crap for the first ~30 hours. After ~40 it fully settled down. Decide what you think of it then.


----------



## InstantSilence

A Jedi said:


> Let the new caps settle down. After modding mine it sounded like crap for the first ~30 hours. After ~40 it fully settled down. Decide what you think of it then.


I think these are burned in well, it's not bad. I like it a lot actually, I'm just troubled with the resolution, loss. Looks like I'm taking a leap to thr 12au7 and give it a go with some of those tubes.


----------



## nwavesailor

You are not going to get the resolution of the TT2 in the LP.


----------



## InstantSilence

nwavesailor said:


> You are not going to get the resolution of the TT2 in the LP.


Fair enough, but I guess I'll get some color I want. Im hunting down the tube that has smooth highs, thick mids, and as much resolution and clarity as possible... It is what it is. I do like I however, definitely not getting rid of it until I hear these 12au7 tubes


----------



## nwavesailor

Did you snag the 6922 to 12AU7n adapters?


----------



## InstantSilence

nwavesailor said:


> Did you snag the 6922 to 12AU7n adapters?


Not yet, about to from a forum member here. Tubemonger is out of stock and China ships via ravens


----------



## nwavesailor

Too bad TM is out........I'm a fan of his socket savers as well as TM's adapters.

IS, you haven't even gotten past the mounded up soil at the rim of the rabbit hole of tube addiction......... let alone gone down the hole!!!! You MAY want to make a clean getaway............ NOW

I'll refer you to out 12 step program when you have it real BAD..........We all think we are in control but no........it's the TUBES!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## jonathan c

nwavesailor said:


> Too bad TM is out........I'm a fan of his socket savers as well as TM's adapters.
> 
> IS, you haven't even gotten past the mounded up soil at the rim of the rabbit hole of tube addiction......... let alone gone down the hole!!!! You MAY want to make a clean getaway............ NOW
> 
> I'll refer you to out 12 step program when you have it real BAD..........We all think we are in control but no........it's the TUBES!!!!!!!!!!!!


Step One:  We admitted we were powerless over tubes - that our lives had become unmanageable.


----------



## InstantSilence

Ive ordered me adapters from a forum member here. Shiukd have them in like 5 days! 
But the tubes im after, are no where to be found 

Just want max resolution and clarity with thick mids.


----------



## 471724 (Jan 21, 2021)

I have several very high quality single ended 1/4" plug terminated headphone cables that I would like to use or at least evaluate with the LP in balanced. Is this possible using a 4-pin male XLR to 1/4" stereo female adapter? There is one available I have found. I think this would tie the L and R - going balanced outputs together, with to me unknown consequences.


----------



## InstantSilence

quadels said:


> I have several very high quality single ended 1/4" plug terminated headphone cables that I would like to use or at least evaluate with the LP in balanced. Is this possible using a 4-pin male XLR to 1/4" female adapter? There is one available I have found. I know this would tie the L and R - going balanced outputs together, with to me unknown consequences.


Having xlr headphone cable straight into the  LP is better, I too briefly tried with an adapter to *see*. The SE out of the LP was just not good. 
I guess it's there for convenience.


----------



## 471724

InstantSilence said:


> Having xlr headphone cable straight into the  LP is better, I too briefly tried with an adapter to *see*. The SE out of the LP was just not good.
> I guess it's there for convenience.



Thanks. I guess it at least worked, but with sound not as good as with a true balanced cable. Was using the adapter still at least somewhat better than using the SE output?


----------



## InstantSilence

quadels said:


> Thanks. I guess it at least worked, but with sound not as good as with a true balanced cable. Was using the adapter still at least somewhat better than using the SE output?


Oh I see. You used a quarter inch female to a male xlr. So you still plugged into the LP in the xlr socket right? 
Then yes you are OK


----------



## fordski

quadels said:


> I have several very high quality single ended 1/4" plug terminated headphone cables that I would like to use or at least evaluate with the LP in balanced. Is this possible using a 4-pin male XLR to 1/4" stereo female adapter? There is one available I have found. I think this would tie the L and R - going balanced outputs together, with to me unknown consequences.



Unknown consequences is key here. I don't know how it would effect the LP but I do know with other gear you run the risk of damage by tying the L and R - together on the balanced output. Not sure I'd be willing to risk it, but others here may know better.


----------



## InstantSilence

fordski said:


> Unknown consequences is key here. I don't know how it would effect the LP but I do know with other gear you run the risk of damage by tying the L and R - together on the balanced output. Not sure I'd be willing to risk it, but others here may know better.


Especially with thr LP having so much power.


----------



## jnak00

quadels said:


> I have several very high quality single ended 1/4" plug terminated headphone cables that I would like to use or at least evaluate with the LP in balanced. Is this possible using a 4-pin male XLR to 1/4" stereo female adapter? There is one available I have found. I think this would tie the L and R - going balanced outputs together, with to me unknown consequences.



Don't do it! It's mentioned many times in this thread that you will damage the amp. You can use an adapter from the 1/4" out to a balanced cable, but not balanced out to an SE cable.


----------



## Jimmyblues1959 (Jan 22, 2021)

InstantSilence said:


> There are mods the thing can take to supposedly improve performance, even the volume pot. I have a modded one and it's consistent.





fordski said:


> Unknown consequences is key here. I don't know how it would effect the LP but I do know with other gear you run the risk of damage by tying the L and R - together on the balanced output. Not sure I'd be willing to risk it, but others here may know better.



I'd just invest in some balanced cables that don't short the signal.  There are headphone amps that you can use these adaptors with, however, I would not chance it with the Liquid Platinum.  Had mine for about a month now and really like it.  Kind of  impressive given that I have been comparing the LP  to a DNA Starlett that I have been demoing, which is a terrific headphone amp that costs $2000.   The Starlett is the better amp, however, costs 5 times more than I paid for the LP.

IMHO, the Starlett is worth the difference in price, however, the LP does surprisingly well at its price of $700 and  really is a bargain at $400.


----------



## Erfan Elahi

I am thnking of trying the focal elex with LP. I am a bit sensitive to shouty mids harsh treble. Is there any chance Elex + LP can be a bad pair ?Looking for a good reasolution and imaging headphone under 1000.


----------



## sahmen

Erfan Elahi said:


> I am thnking of trying the focal elex with LP. I am a bit sensitive to shouty mids harsh treble. Is there any chance Elex + LP can be a bad pair ?Looking for a good reasolution and imaging headphone under 1000.


In that case, I have an experience pairing the LP and the Elex that I'd rather not share with you. Suffice it to say that I sold the Elex very shortly after that experience.  In spite of that, I still think you should try auditioning the pairing for yourself and see how it goes, given how subjective such experiences, synergies, preferences, and "mileages" tend to be...  Who knows, your experience might be different from mine...


----------



## Erfan Elahi

sahmen said:


> In that case, I have an experience pairing the LP and the Elex that I'd rather not share with you. Suffice it to say that I sold the Elex very shortly after that experience.  In spite of that, I still think you should try auditioning the pairing for yourself and see how it goes, given how subjective such experiences, synergies, preferences, and "mileages" tend to be...  Who knows, your experience might be different from mine...


Good said... Thanks


----------



## chaz_flhr

Erfan Elahi said:


> I am thnking of trying the focal elex with LP. I am a bit sensitive to shouty mids harsh treble. Is there any chance Elex + LP can be a bad pair ?Looking for a good reasolution and imaging headphone under 1000.


is the LP your current amp? Have you rolled tubes?
I have the same issue with shouty mids and harsh treble on headphones.
It’s a slight stretch of budget but you could try the Radiance or wait for the new reveal from Focal my guess is it’s the Radiance in a non limited edition offering which should be cheaper than a limited edition headphone.


----------



## Erfan Elahi

chaz_flhr said:


> is the LP your current amp? Have you rolled tubes?
> I have the same issue with shouty mids and harsh treble on headphones.
> It’s a slight stretch of budget but you could try the Radiance or wait for the new reveal from Focal my guess is it’s the Radiance in a non limited edition offering which should be cheaper than a limited edition headphone.


Yea, LP my only amp and Topping D90 as my DAC. I have not bought the Elex yet I am thinking of Elex or LCD 2 C. For tubes, I have the D Getters tubes. Do you have any other tubes to try to tame the harshness against bright headphones? (If the Elex can be bright)


----------



## LCMusicLover

Erfan Elahi said:


> Yea, LP my only amp and Topping D90 as my DAC. I have not bought the Elex yet I am thinking of Elex or LCD 2 C. For tubes, I have the D Getters tubes. Do you have any other tubes to try to tame the harshness against bright headphones? (If the Elex can be bright)


I own Utopia -- not sure how they compare to Elex for brightness, but I guess they're 'close'.

To me, my Siemens NOS tubes (E88CC, E188CC, CCa) reduced the brightness of my Utopia the most of all my 6DJ8/6922/ECC99/7308 variants.  

Don't know if you're interested in running 12AU7 tubes (with an adapter) in your LP.  If so, I can run through a few of those (I have several pair) to see if any do as well as the Siemens (which are ridiculously expensive these days).

Also, you might post this over on the LP Tube Rollers thread -- you might get an Elex-specific response there.


----------



## Shane D (Jan 25, 2021)

Erfan Elahi said:


> I am thnking of trying the focal elex with LP. I am a bit sensitive to shouty mids harsh treble. Is there any chance Elex + LP can be a bad pair ?Looking for a good reasolution and imaging headphone under 1000.



I love my LP and My Elex's as a combo via XLR. I can listen to this combo for hours and days. All the treble, mids and bass that I could want. Of course we all hear differently.
I love these, the Sundara's and the HD660's out of my LP.

Also, I would put the Elex's Miles ahead of the LCD-2 Classic's. I have been using my new LCD-2 Classic's and trying to like them, but...


----------



## InstantSilence (Jan 26, 2021)

It doesn't feel right. I guess I just don't have patience for tube hunting.


----------



## Erfan Elahi

@LCMusicLover thanks for the suggestion will lookup.



Shane D said:


> I love my LP and My Elex's as a combo via XLR. I can listen to this combo for hours and days. All the treble, mids and bass that I could want. Of course we all hear differently.
> I love these, the Sundara's and the HD660's out of my LP.
> 
> Also, I would put the Elex's Miles ahead of the LCD-2 Classic's. I have been using my new LCD-2 Classic's and trying to like them, but...


Since you mentioned you own both, which tube you paired with LP ? You using any upgrade cables with the Elex ?


----------



## LCMusicLover

Erfan Elahi said:


> @LCMusicLover thanks for the suggestion will lookup.
> 
> 
> Since you mentioned you own both, which tube you paired with LP ? You using any upgrade cables with the Elex ?


Sorry perhaps I wasn’t clear — I own Utopia, not Elex. Piped up because I own LP & rolled through a bunch of tubes to find something to tame Utopia ‘sharpness’.


----------



## Shane D

Erfan Elahi said:


> @LCMusicLover thanks for the suggestion will lookup.
> 
> 
> Since you mentioned you own both, which tube you paired with LP ? You using any upgrade cables with the Elex ?



I was quite happy with the stock tubes, but I decided to buy a set of Amperex tubes. I don't notice much difference.

I have been using the stock cables and while they are a bit annoying, they work fine.
However, I just received my cable set from Hart Audio Cables. I got three cables (3.5mm, 2-pin Senn and Audeze cable) and four connectors. Now I can put all the crappy factory cables back in their boxes. This package will cover six of my headphones and makes cable/connector management so simple!


----------



## Zachik

Shane D said:


> However, I just received my cable set from Hart Audio Cables. I got three cables (3.5mm, 2-pin Senn and Audeze cable) and four connectors. Now I can put all the crappy factory cables back in their boxes. This package will cover six of my headphones and makes cable/connector management so simple!


Hart cables are great for the price!
I have replaced my Elex, HD600, Verum 1 and Vokyl's stock cables, and could not be happier. Great customer service as well


----------



## urbanfox

Read this entire thread and most of tube rolling so I picked this amp up last month for my LCD-2c and happy I did. Sounded ok with stock tubes, but once put some amperex orange globes in it really opened up. Ended up pairing it with my HE-560. What a great match! 
Macbook Pro>wireworld silverstarlight 7>SU-8>balanced HE-560.


----------



## chaz_flhr

Erfan Elahi said:


> Yea, LP my only amp and Topping D90 as my DAC. I have not bought the Elex yet I am thinking of Elex or LCD 2 C. For tubes, I have the D Getters tubes. Do you have any other tubes to try to tame the harshness against bright headphones? (If the Elex can be bright)


How do you like the topping D90?


----------



## Erfan Elahi

chaz_flhr said:


> How do you like the topping D90?


I bought it recently, havent tried any hps with it yet. Only paired LX with LP just out of curiosity, but it was hissy on many songs. Although the pairing was highly anlitical as per staging, imaging and resolution, it was total analitical, but overall - dry signature (even the bass king LX !). Sold my LX to cash for a hp. So I will know then how D90+LP goes with hps.


----------



## chaz_flhr (Jan 28, 2021)

Erfan Elahi said:


> I bought it recently, havent tried any hps with it yet. Only paired LX with LP just out of curiosity, but it was hissy on many songs. Although the pairing was highly anlitical as per staging, imaging and resolution, it was total analitical, but overall - dry signature (even the bass king LX !). Sold my LX to cash for a hp. So I will know then how D90+LP goes with hps.


At this point I’m just using a node 2i as my dac but was looking at a d90 prior to the node 2i purchase. I have done the cap upgrade along with some 58 Holland amperex Bugle Boy d getters in my LP so far. I am now looking for some 12au7 Holland made Amperex ECC82 long plate foil d Getters that were recommended to me closer to the sound signature I am looking for. FWIW tubes make a subtle difference in LP sound sig due to it being a hybrid.
I tend to like things to the warm / fun side with a little body and slam without getting muddy.


----------



## jlspa182

Could someone give me their opinion on how it works with a fostex or a ZMF Atticus. 
Thanks a lot.


----------



## WaveTheory

jlspa182 said:


> Could someone give me their opinion on how it works with a fostex or a ZMF Atticus.
> Thanks a lot.



Which Fostex? I have a TH-X00 that I put Lawton chambers on. Sounds really great on MLP, especially if you have tubes that are warmer and smoother (the stock are like that). The Fostex biodyna treble can get hot so tubes that take some of the bite off up top are my preference for Fostex.


----------



## jlspa182

WaveTheory said:


> Which Fostex? I have a TH-X00 that I put Lawton chambers on. Sounds really great on MLP, especially if you have tubes that are warmer and smoother (the stock are like that). The Fostex biodyna treble can get hot so tubes that take some of the bite off up top are my preference for Fostex.


Fostex th900. 
Do you use stock tubes? 
Thanks


----------



## WaveTheory

jlspa182 said:


> Fostex th900.
> Do you use stock tubes?
> Thanks



Ooo. Nice can. I borrowed a Lawton'd TH-900 from a friend and it sounded really good on the MLP too. It will also scale up to even better amps. 

I no longer use the stock tubes. My favorite set is Amperex PQ Gold Pin 6922. They have a really nice soundstage, awesome timbre, and a sweet, detailed, but not-sharp treble. A warning: they are getting really hard to find for any reasonable price these days. Stocks of them are going down to zero all over.


----------



## jlspa182

WaveTheory said:


> Ooo. Nice can. I borrowed a Lawton'd TH-900 from a friend and it sounded really good on the MLP too. It will also scale up to even better amps.
> 
> I no longer use the stock tubes. My favorite set is Amperex PQ Gold Pin 6922. They have a really nice soundstage, awesome timbre, and a sweet, detailed, but not-sharp treble. A warning: they are getting really hard to find for any reasonable price these days. Stocks of them are going down to zero all over.


Yes I'm looking to reduce the sharp treble of my fostex. 
Thanks


----------



## chaz_flhr

Erfan Elahi said:


> I am thnking of trying the focal elex with LP. I am a bit sensitive to shouty mids harsh treble. Is there any chance Elex + LP can be a bad pair ?Looking for a good reasolution and imaging headphone under 1000.


The Celestee might be worth a listen if you want a Focal.


----------



## George Chronis

Showtime...


----------



## InstantSilence

George Chronis said:


> Showtime...


I'm so curious on your thoughts of stock vs mod amp. 
What HPs you have that are most transparent?


----------



## George Chronis

I'll start with Beyer T1.2 (shown in picture). Will take me several days to complete. I am also comparing to the Lyr 3 that I've had for a while and I'm familiar with. Ultimately, only one will survive 

I already played the modded with the Modius (no pun intended) and I think the Modius was restricting and muddying the modded LP. Modius is up for sale and someone claimed it already. Admittedly, I didn't test it much, but since I decided to sell the Lyr 3, or the modded LP, whichever one is better, the Bifrost 2 will be the only DAC I need.

I have some other factors affecting my decision, though, so full disclosure: Other than the cans I own, music tastes, ears etc., I also own a Mjolnir 2, so the LP would be sharing the many pairs of 6922 variants I got from Wes. If I keep the Lyr 3, I'll need to maintain an arsenal of 6SN7s (which I also got from Wes btw). Sooooo, all else being equal, I'd keep the modded LP.

I don't want to post much before I'm finished, probably next week, but man, I can say I am impressed with the modded LP. I have not played with the LP much in order to determine if it's the mods or the LP, but I am impressed nonetheless. My other two amps are a MJ2 and a WA5-LE, so it's not like I don't know what quality sounds like.

Comparisons are a very lengthy process for me. I don't do A/B. I have to play the different combos for several days to get accustomed to the sound, try different headphones or tubes perhaps, but definitely train my ears to the sound. I also like a variety of music, so I have to spend quite some time to go through. In the end, whatever leaves the best impression to me will be a keeper. But I don't plug/unplug constantly.

Hopefully, my impressions will be helpful to the good folks here.


----------



## YtseJamer (Feb 17, 2021)

New LP review.  Not sure the guy understand what's the difference between a tube amp and an hybrid amp..


----------



## A Jedi

YtseJamer said:


> Not sure the guy understand what's the difference



He doesn't.


----------



## Rattle

did he at least use the xlr out ? the amp is useless SE out.


----------



## InstantSilence

I guess I unsubbed because a reviewer didn't know what hybrid or not is... Idk call me petty


----------



## A Jedi

Rattle said:


> did he at least use the xlr out ? the amp is useless SE out.



Never mentioned what he used.


----------



## A Jedi

InstantSilence said:


> I guess I unsubbed because a reviewer didn't know what hybrid or not is... Idk call me petty



Ha! I did the same.


----------



## sahmen

For the record, he keeps calling it a "Tube amp," but he also raises enough for questions about that designation to show that he implicitly realizes that he is not dealing with a standard Tube amp, which is why he stresses the affinity of the LP's performance with SS amps, for example.  He does not mention the word "hybrid," but he sounds savvy enough about the differences in performance between the different models to provide a strong sense that he realizes he is not dealing with a Tube amp in the regularly standard understanding of the term. He even scare quotes the designation of "Tube Amp" at one stage for the same reasons. Personally, that works fine for me. Also in most of the hands-on discussions of the LP in the video in which it is wired, I only see it connected via the XLR inputs and outputs, so he seems to know what he is doing sufficiently well.

The most important thing, however, is that he does not say anything about the actual performance of the LP that is widely or wildly off the mark to my ears.  Actually,  I find his remarks about the LP's capability in handling difficult to drive planars to be mostly spot on.  

IOW, this is definitely not on the level of a normal Z review, for example... Joshua's review sounds a lot more helpful, in spite of obvious limitations in his expertise... Just saying


----------



## InstantSilence

sahmen said:


> For the record, he keeps calling it a "Tube amp," but he also raises enough for questions about that designation to show that he implicitly realizes that he is not dealing with a standard Tube amp, which is why he stresses the affinity of the LP's performance with SS amps, for example.  He does not mention the word "hybrid," but he sounds savvy enough about the differences in performance between the different models to provide a strong sense that he realizes he is not dealing with a Tube amp in the regularly standard understanding of the term. He even scare quotes the designation of "Tube Amp" at one stage for the same reasons. Personally, that works fine for me. Also in most of the hands-on discussions of the LP in the video in which it is wired, I only see it connected via the XLR inputs and outputs, so he seems to know what he is doing sufficiently well.
> 
> The most important thing, however, is that he does not say anything about the actual performance of the LP that is widely or wildly off the mark to my ears.  Actually,  I find his remarks about the LP's capability in handling difficult to drive planars to be mostly spot on.
> 
> IOW, this is definitely not on the level of a normal Z review, for example... Joshua's review sounds a lot more helpful, in spite of obvious limitations in his expertise... Just saying


Z reviews are definitely just a long drawn out unboxing, reviews they are not. 
But I still click on his stuff for the comedy, I like his style. 
When I want to get schooled on some product I look elsewhere through


----------



## Marlowe

I used to like Josh Valour a lot, but this review was so profoundly ignorant that I don't think I can watch his reviews anymore. He certainly seems like a fairly bright guy and it is quite possible that he knows about the LP's topology, but did not think it worthwhile to pass this information on to his audience, which is pretty much the same as the buffoon who calls himself Z. Still, the level of misinformation in this review (as much by omission than by what he actually said) is just startlingly monumental. I left a comment saying so and briefly noting the basic difference between a pure tube amp (like the Darkvoice that he briefly mentions) and a hybrid tube amp like the LP; he has not replied.


----------



## Brainiac9000

sahmen said:


> For the record, he keeps calling it a "Tube amp," but he also raises enough for questions about that designation to show that he implicitly realizes that he is not dealing with a standard Tube amp, which is why he stresses the affinity of the LP's performance with SS amps, for example.  He does not mention the word "hybrid," but he sounds savvy enough about the differences in performance between the different models to provide a strong sense that he realizes he is not dealing with a Tube amp in the regularly standard understanding of the term. He even scare quotes the designation of "Tube Amp" at one stage for the same reasons. Personally, that works fine for me. Also in most of the hands-on discussions of the LP in the video in which it is wired, I only see it connected via the XLR inputs and outputs, so he seems to know what he is doing sufficiently well.
> 
> The most important thing, however, is that he does not say anything about the actual performance of the LP that is widely or wildly off the mark to my ears.  Actually,  I find his remarks about the LP's capability in handling difficult to drive planars to be mostly spot on.
> 
> IOW, this is definitely not on the level of a normal Z review, for example... Joshua's review sounds a lot more helpful, in spite of obvious limitations in his expertise... Just saying


Great response to those who clearly didn’t watch the video but yet are so happy to spread hate on things they know nothing about and then ultimately now sound like the dumb ones.


----------



## YtseJamer

Josh seems to be a cool guy, but you have to admit that he didn't do his homework on this one..


----------



## Delta9K (Feb 17, 2021)

jlspa182 said:


> Could someone give me their opinion on how it works with a fostex or a ZMF Atticus.
> Thanks a lot.


It works nice with a D5000 (Lawton level 2) and also a TH-610. I have a TH-900mk2 coming in tomorrow but I'll have to break in the drivers for a while before being able to respond properly - but I suspect it will work nicely too.


----------



## Marlowe

Brainiac9000 said:


> Great response to those who clearly didn’t watch the video but yet are so happy to spread hate on things they know nothing about and then ultimately now sound like the dumb ones.


I disagree. I watched the review and the ignorance and misinformation in it was jaw dropping. It's also pretty clear that most of the commenters here _did_ watch the review and their comments are correct, so I'd be more careful about calling people dumb.


----------



## Slade01

sahmen said:


> The most important thing, however, is that he does not say anything about the actual performance of the LP that is widely or wildly off the mark to my ears.  Actually,  I find his remarks about the LP's capability in handling difficult to drive planars to be mostly spot on.



I agree with this.   Josh from the get-go with his title pretty much had one intent - that the LP can drive planar magnetic headphones.  I think he makes that case pretty clear, despite not going into the semantics/science and being in a sense politically correct of actually calling it a tube hybrid.  From an absolute basic consumer point of view, the LP is foremost, a headphone amp.  It's got tubes sticking out of it so people will expect that its gonna color sound to some degree.  It's got power to drive harder planars.  My impression is that Josh really dumbed this "review" down plain and simple.   I think @sahmen makes a valid point that regardless of how it was said, Josh was still fairly on point with its capability.


----------



## Ham Sandwich

YtseJamer said:


> New LP review. Not sure the guy understand what's the difference between a tube amp and an hybrid amp..



The Cavalli embedded/blended hybrid amps are solid state amps that have an embedded/blended tube section. The majority of the sound character is the solid state side. I consider them to be something like 75% solid state sound and 25% tube. The majority of their sonic character is fixed by the solid state portion of the amp. The tubes only change the character of that 25% portion to various degrees. I had someone describe the Liquid Fire to me as a tube amp for people who like solid state. I would agree. The imaging and layering and separation and sense of space is from the solid state side of the amp. The tube side adds some sonic density and some depth (2nd harmonics from tubes add soundstage depth). The tube side of the embedded/blended hybrids mostly affects the sonic density and imaging density in the midrange, somewhat in the bass, less in the treble. The result is a denser midrange that fills in and a bass that is denser (but less than the midrange) and a treble that is softer. Changing tubes will change the degree of all that, but will not change the character of the solid state side of the amp which provides the sense of imaging, layering, and separation. That solid state side accounts for around 75% of the sound character. They're predominately solid state amps in their sound. They're also solid state amps in how they're able to deliver power and current. And planars love power and current. The Cavalli embedded/blended hybrids have always been great amps for planar magnetic headphones.

Need to transport Joshua Valour back to 2009 to listen to a DIY Cavalli Stacker II amp with a Hifiman HE5 to learn the history of these amps. That amp with the HE5 was my first experience hearing a Cavalli hybrid. And I was hooked on the Cavalli sound. Then around 2010/2011 Cavalli demoed preproduction and then production versions of the Liquid Fire. An evolution of the Stacker II design. And then came Liquid Crimson, then Liquid Platinum. The Liquid Fire was used by several planar magnetic headphone companies as one of their reference amps. These amps have always done especially well with planar magnetic headphones. I bought the LCD-2 because of the Liquid Fire, and bought the Liquid Fire because of the LCD-2. There was synergy going on. The original Abyss 1266 was designed using the Liquid Fire as one of the reference amps.


----------



## alekc

Marlowe said:


> I disagree. I watched the review and the ignorance and misinformation in it was jaw dropping. It's also pretty clear that most of the commenters here _did_ watch the review and their comments are correct, so I'd be more careful about calling people dumb.



I agree. While footage, lighting etc are great if not brilliant, the so called expert apparently missed the homework he should have done long time ago. When one is reviewing a product and pose as an expert there is a responsibility attached to it.  I wouldn't care at all if the person would start every review with a statement that he is actually not an expert in the field but then his business model would probably fall apart quickly and income would decrease.  Which brings another important topic: if somebody is making money out of pretending to be an actual expert I don't see anything fair in such business model. 

Few other points I'd like to address:

he did not say anything that previous reviewers wouldn't say either, but this does not make any criticism less valid
the fact that he did used XLR connections may have nothing to do with reviewers knowledge as he may or may not sell such cables in next reviews, the argument is not valid therefor. Looking at this from different angle I haven't noticed the amp to be connected to power when XLR connections are exposed. While I am far from drawing such conclusion following XLR argument one could argue that he does not know how to connect power source to amp  but please do let us not explore this path further.

I know, ignorance is a bliss and this is a great example. 

There is a brilliant book that touches this topic perfectly well:

The Death of Expertise: The Campaign against Established Knowledge and Why it Matters


----------



## Seledor (Feb 25, 2021)

I've had this amp for a while now and the thing is its seems like a bright amp to me. Is this normal? Did I get a bad one? I've tried a bunch of tubes on it and nothing seems to bring down that brightness. Any recommendations? I got some bright headphones I'd like to bring the treble down on. Like the Aiva, Arya and GL2000. thanks!


----------



## Guidostrunk (Feb 25, 2021)

Seledor said:


> I've had this amp for a while now and the thing is its seems like a bright amp to me. Is this normal? Did I get a bad one? I've tried a bunch of tubes on it and nothing seems to bring down that brightness. Any recommendations? I got some bright headphones I'd like to bring the treble down on. Like the Aiva, Arya and GL2000. thanks!


You can grab two of these first.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-12AU7-...-/282951829690?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292

Then grab a pair of these.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1MP-CV4003...-/203258727121?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292


----------



## George Chronis

What’s the difference between a CV4003 and CV4004? (I know, one digit, but really...)


----------



## Jimmyblues1959 (Feb 25, 2021)

Seledor said:


> I've had this amp for a while now and the thing is its seems like a bright amp to me. Is this normal? Did I get a bad one? I've tried a bunch of tubes on it and nothing seems to bring down that brightness. Any recommendations? I got some bright headphones I'd like to bring the treble down on. Like the Aiva, Arya and GL2000. thanks!




I also have a Liquid Platinum and it sounds well balanced to me.   It's probably your headphones that need
to be adjusted. 

You may wanna try a Schiit LOKI Mini graphic equalizer.  I use it with all of my headphone gear and it is
quite useful in fine tuning my headphones.  It can remove some of the brightness from your headphones
by easing off on the treble and midrange.


----------



## Guidostrunk

George Chronis said:


> What’s the difference between a CV4003 and CV4004? (I know, one digit, but really...)


CV4004= 12ax7 with a gain factor of 100.
CV4003= 12au7 with a gain factor of 18. 
CV4004 is no good in any of our tube hybrids lol.


----------



## George Chronis

Guidostrunk said:


> CV4004= 12ax7 with a gain factor of 100.
> CV4003= 12au7 with a gain factor of 18.
> CV4004 is no good in any of our tube hybrids lol.


Perfect. One less tube to worry about  Thank you! I have gotten this bug to where I need to try every possible tube combination on this thing before I decide which ones I like best. And I consider myself not a roller. Imagine that!


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> CV4004= 12ax7 with a gain factor of 100.
> CV4003= 12au7 with a gain factor of 18.
> CV4004 is no good in any of our tube hybrids lol.


12AX7 is doable on a Lyr2 and MJ2 using low gain.


----------



## George Chronis

TK16 said:


> 12AX7 is doable on a Lyr2 and MJ2 using low gain.


Have an MJ2, Lyr3 and The LP. Not messing with the MJ2 and adaptors, yet. I have 12 different pairs to try as is already  E1188CC, CCa, E88CC, 7308 all good stuff.

I did get some adaptors for 7730, though, because Sam was raving about them and couldn't resist. They're not here yet. I guess I can use the same adaptors for the CV4003. I'll grab a pair of CV4003s as well. They seem "reasonably" priced even at upscale. How would you guys compare the sound of the 7730 to the CV4003 on the LP? The ones I got are Raytheon 7730, probably came from Sam to begin with.


----------



## Guidostrunk

CV4003 and 7730 are polar opposites lol. I'm the original owner of the 7730.


----------



## Guidostrunk

7730 are open, detailed, huge soundstage, with fantastic bass extension, impact and slam. image monsters.

CV4003 are smooth, laid back, a little mid forward, rolled off highs.


----------



## George Chronis

Guidostrunk said:


> 7730 are open, detailed, huge soundstage, with fantastic bass extension, impact and slam. image monsters.
> 
> CV4003 are smooth, laid back, a little mid forward, rolled off highs.


Got it. I prefer the 7730 sound, then, but at that price. CV4003 worth a price. I like imaging and my headphones are usually on the mellow side to counter that, so I get a bit of low and 100 Hz frequencies, which I love. I'll grab the CV4003 though to take a listen. Have gone so far into this game, may as well... Thank you!


----------



## Seledor

Guidostrunk said:


> You can grab two of these first.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-12AU7-...-/282951829690?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292
> 
> Then grab a pair of these.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1MP-CV4003...-/203258727121?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292



Wow those tubes are expensive. is there a version of it that isnt that expensive?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Seledor said:


> Wow those tubes are expensive. is there a version of it that isnt that expensive?


Depends on how you look at it. 
Here's a pair of some of the best 6922 variants. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/e88cc-tube...-/254823657678?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Depends on how you look at it.
> Here's a pair of some of the best 6922 variants.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/e88cc-tube...-/254823657678?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292


Not quite a bargain like the pair I quoted, but I highly recommend someone putting in there max bid with 10 seconds left in the auction. Or you can go with a cheaper quad from the same seller bro. 🤣
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-BECKM...770a9c56600faccfffc360a|iid:1&redirect=mobile
https://www.ebay.com/itm/e88cc-tube...770a9c56600faccfffc360a|iid:1&redirect=mobile


----------



## TK16

Anyone here get that 7316 pair? Nearly bid on em.


----------



## Seledor

Guidostrunk said:


> Depends on how you look at it.
> Here's a pair of some of the best 6922 variants.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/e88cc-tube-PAIR-d-getter-6922-CCA-CV2492-pinched-waist-GOLD-valve-preamp-valvo-/254823657678?_trksid=p2349624.m46890



AAARRRRRGGGGHHHH!!!  🤪

Was hoping more for 40$ or something


----------



## hikaru12

Guidostrunk said:


> 7730 are open, detailed, huge soundstage, with fantastic bass extension, impact and slam. image monsters.
> 
> CV4003 are smooth, laid back, a little mid forward, rolled off highs.



Can confirm, using some Brimar 4003 and I love how smooth they sound with my Eikons. Very nice, rich, thick sound.


----------



## chaz_flhr

Guidostrunk said:


> Depends on how you look at it.
> Here's a pair of some of the best 6922 variants.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/e88cc-tube...-/254823657678?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292


Ouch at that point I would just put that money towards a used Manley absolute or something similar. Once the tubes cost more than the amp I’m done. Even worse what if you bought them and they were your perfect match then you would have to find a backup pair.


----------



## hikaru12

Rattle said:


> did he at least use the xlr out ? the amp is useless SE out.



I didn't even realize how much of an impact this has. Even if you're doing a SE end source if you use a XLR cable for your headphones you still benefit. The detail, blackness of background, and power are way better out of the XLR. It's no contest.


----------



## nwavesailor (Feb 28, 2021)

Seledor said:


> AAARRRRRGGGGHHHH!!!  🤪
> 
> Was hoping more for 40$ or something


----------



## Guidostrunk

chaz_flhr said:


> Ouch at that point I would just put that money towards a used Manley absolute or something similar. Once the tubes cost more than the amp I’m done. Even worse what if you bought them and they were your perfect match then you would have to find a backup pair.


I hear you on spending more on tubes than what the amps worth. There's a few of us on here that tried the rehab thing but unfortunately it never worked 😂


----------



## buffalomatt

Guidostrunk said:


> 7730 are open, detailed, huge soundstage, with fantastic bass extension, impact and slam. image monsters.


Any recommendations for tubes that have similar traits as the 7730, but are less expensive or easy to obtain?


----------



## Guidostrunk

buffalomatt said:


> Any recommendations for tubes that have similar traits as the 7730, but are less expensive or easy to obtain?


Buy these 2 tubes.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hytron-5814A-Electron-tube-/324487908073?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292


https://www.ebay.com/itm/One-CBS-58...-/154053495099?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292


----------



## Guidostrunk

None of these tubes are easy to obtain. Although they are easier to obtain if you mingle in the right threads 😉


----------



## DeweyCH

My LP is buzzing now regardless of the tubes I use. Is there a known issue with plugging it into a power strip with other stuff, or having it too close to, like, a wireless phone charger, or whatnot? It's definitely a tube hum, and mine has always seemed a bit tetchy... I set my phone too close to it once and it LOTS ITS DANG MIND until I turned it off and let it rest for a day.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Definitely try moving it to a different location/circuit and see what happens.


----------



## Slade01

DeweyCH said:


> My LP is buzzing now regardless of the tubes I use. Is there a known issue with plugging it into a power strip with other stuff, or having it too close to, like, a wireless phone charger, or whatnot? It's definitely a tube hum, and mine has always seemed a bit tetchy... I set my phone too close to it once and it LOTS ITS DANG MIND until I turned it off and let it rest for a day.



My LP is plugged into a power strip with a ton of other stuff, and I do not have any humming issue.


----------



## jonathan c

DeweyCH said:


> My LP is buzzing now regardless of the tubes I use. Is there a known issue with plugging it into a power strip with other stuff, or having it too close to, like, a wireless phone charger, or whatnot? It's definitely a tube hum, and mine has always seemed a bit tetchy... I set my phone too close to it once and it LOTS ITS DANG MIND until I turned it off and let it rest for a day.


Is any of the “other stuff” in the power strip non-audio equipment? i.e., computer / charger / clock. Also, is there an internet modem or router nearby? These items may be generating frequency interference.


----------



## DeweyCH

jonathan c said:


> Is any of the “other stuff” in the power strip non-audio equipment? i.e., computer / charger / clock. Also, is there an internet modem or router nearby? These items may be generating frequency interference.


Yeah, a fair bit, actually. iPhone wireless charger, old-ass alarm clock, iFi Zen Blue (which is the source for the LP via 2.5mm-->dual XLR), Switch, laptop charger, smartwatch charger... it's my bedside table setup.


----------



## FlipFloperator

What do you guys think of pairing the *LP *with a *schiit modius dac* and *HD6xx's*? With a balanced cable of course. I'd also run a phono preamp RCA'd into the LP and I see a nice little input switch to change as needed. This would be my first step into the game, and after a couple months of learning this is the plan that arose... getting itchy to start buying but not looking to let my ignorance lead me to a compatibility or otherwise silly mistake. Not too long ago the Valhalla 2 was the primary amp contender in mind but this thread changed that, so that's why I'm asking here.


----------



## jonathan c

DeweyCH said:


> Yeah, a fair bit, actually. iPhone wireless charger, old-ass alarm clock, iFi Zen Blue (which is the source for the LP via 2.5mm-->dual XLR), Switch, laptop charger, smartwatch charger... it's my bedside table setup.


If your room setup allows, maybe have the audio gear in one power strip and the non-audio gear in another strip. This might be a stretch 🤔🤞but have the power strips plugged into different outlets...


----------



## Guidostrunk

FlipFloperator said:


> What do you guys think of pairing the *LP *with a *schiit modius dac* and *HD6xx's*? With a balanced cable of course. I'd also run a phono preamp RCA'd into the LP and I see a nice little input switch to change as needed. This would be my first step into the game, and after a couple months of learning this is the plan that arose... getting itchy to start buying but not looking to let my ignorance lead me to a compatibility or otherwise silly mistake. Not too long ago the Valhalla 2 was the primary amp contender in mind but this thread changed that, so that's why I'm asking here.


Should be a great rig.


----------



## DeweyCH

jonathan c said:


> If your room setup allows, maybe have the audio gear in one power strip and the non-audio gear in another strip. This might be a stretch 🤔🤞but have the power strips plugged into different outlets...


I'll try plugging the LP straight into the wall. No need to even have it on the strip with the other devices, and I have two separate outlets close enough to use. Thanks for the advice.


----------



## jonathan c

DeweyCH said:


> I'll try plugging the LP straight into the wall. No need to even have it on the strip with the other devices, and I have two separate outlets close enough to use. Thanks for the advice.


One more thought: surge protector for the LP.


----------



## MikeO3

DeweyCH said:


> My LP is buzzing now regardless of the tubes I use. Is there a known issue with plugging it into a power strip with other stuff, or having it too close to, like, a wireless phone charger, or whatnot? It's definitely a tube hum, and mine has always seemed a bit tetchy... I set my phone too close to it once and it LOTS ITS DANG MIND until I turned it off and let it rest for a day.


Have you checked your source wall circuit has the proper polarity and grounding? A low cost circuit tester will do the trick to check this.

I have not had any issues with my mobile being sat right near my LP all day long. There is also a wireless changer inches away and never heard a buzzing sound with or without the mobile charging.


jonathan c said:


> One more thought: surge protector for the LP.


^^^ A good recommendation. I use an small APC at the wall and have a decent power bar connected to that. Some noise cleansing but probably not as effective a UPS or power conditioner.


----------



## Ham Sandwich

DeweyCH said:


> My LP is buzzing now regardless of the tubes I use. Is there a known issue with plugging it into a power strip with other stuff, or having it too close to, like, a wireless phone charger, or whatnot? It's definitely a tube hum, and mine has always seemed a bit tetchy... I set my phone too close to it once and it LOTS ITS DANG MIND until I turned it off and let it rest for a day.



I have all of the switching power supplies and other potentially noisy gear plugged into a separate Tripp Lite Isobar. The Isobar has filtering that is supposed to filter out that sort of noise. It seems to work because I don't have buzzing or hum in my setup. Try separating the power plugs so that the switching mode and potentially noisy gear is plugged into a separate power strip that has filtering (like an Isobar). Then plug the other gear into a different power strip.

You also need to be mindful of ground loops and ground hum. Ground loop issues will affect all of your gear because it will travel through the interconnects that interconnect all of the gear. Look at your cable routing to make sure that power cables are separated from interconnect cables and other best practices for cable routing and ground loop avoidance.


----------



## DeweyCH

That took care of it! Got the Isobar, and it’s only powering the amp and DAC, no hum at all. Sounding fantastic.


----------



## jonathan c

DeweyCH said:


> That took care of it! Got the Isobar, and it’s only powering the amp and DAC, no hum at all. Sounding fantastic.


From 🐝🐝🤬 ——> 🎶🎶 😀....


----------



## Guidostrunk

😂😂😂 NICE!


----------



## DeafAudiophile

Is there a reason there’s no guide/shopping list for the mod? I perused a bulk of the thread but only 2 instances of the caps are mentioned but there seems to be a variety of versions and I’m not sure the direction to go.


----------



## Lohb (Mar 9, 2021)

(Question edited out.)

Aha, just found this dedicated thread after scanning through this entire thread...great !
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/liquid-platinum-tube-rollers.898852/


----------



## Slade01

Guidostrunk said:


> Buy these 2 tubes.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/One-CBS-58...-/154053495099?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292



@Guidostrunk   I actually bought a pair of these tubes (CBS 5814a) at a really good price from that seller.  You are right on the money as usual.  It is a very great and satisfying poor man's version of the 7730 for sure.


----------



## sennfan83261 (Mar 11, 2021)

Slade01 said:


> @Guidostrunk   I actually bought a pair of these tubes (CBS 5814a) at a really good price from that seller.  You are right on the money as usual.  It is a very great and satisfying poor man's version of the 7730 for sure.


I agree. I bought two pairs from that seller and both pairs came quickly and were noise-free. Really nice treble clarity and air. Bass is pretty tight and nicely controlled. However the bass lacks presence compared to the GE 2x mica, black plate D-getter 5814A's that I picked up recently. The GE's are definitely warmer, lusher, and has considerably more bass presence to the point that its bass sounds a bit bloomy (probably some of the most bass that I've heard from a tube) at the expense of the clarity heard from the CBS 5814A when the two are put side by side. Technically, the CBS 5814A is better than the GE 5814A's. The triple mica GE D-getter gray plate 5814's that I received yesterday are more neutral than the GE 2x mica D-getter, more along the lines of the CBS so far.


----------



## Guidostrunk

sennfan83261 said:


> I agree. I bought two pairs from that seller and both pairs came quickly and were noise-free. Really nice treble clarity and air. Bass is pretty tight and nicely controlled. However the bass lacks presence compared to the GE 2x mica, black plate D-getter 5814A's that I picked up recently. The GE's are definitely warmer, lusher, and has considerably more bass presence to the point that its bass sounds a bit bloomy (probably some of the most bass that I've heard from a tube) at the expense of the clarity heard from the CBS 5814A when the two are put side by side. Technically, the CBS 5814A is better than the GE 5814A's. The triple mica GE D-getter gray plate 5814's that I received yesterday are more neutral than the GE 2x mica D-getter, more along the lines of the CBS so far.


Give it some burn in time on the CBS. I don't even judge tubes until I'm over the 100 hour mark. In the first 30 they change a lot and open up and settle in up to the 100 hour mark. 
Edit: That's with all NOS tubes.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Russian tubes are the worst for burn in. 150 to 200 to peak performance lol.


----------



## sennfan83261 (Mar 11, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Give it some burn in time on the CBS. I don't even judge tubes until I'm over the 100 hour mark. In the first 30 they change a lot and open up and settle in up to the 100 hour mark.
> Edit: That's with all NOS tubes.


Yeah, these tubes were labeled as used and their measured results were below their respective NOS values. Then again, NOS values are not really set in stone for any tube tester.


----------



## Slade01

Guidostrunk said:


> Russian tubes are the worst for burn in. 150 to 200 to peak performance lol.


i've heard even up to 300 hours (melz or fotons?) i can never remember which one exactly.


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Russian tubes are the worst for burn in. 150 to 200 to peak performance lol.


A result of the Cold War 😆😖?....


----------



## malocadi

Did monoprice raise the price on this? Why is it being listed at $800 now? Did they realize only later how popular this amp is?


----------



## ra990

malocadi said:


> Did monoprice raise the price on this? Why is it being listed at $800 now? Did they realize only later how popular this amp is?


It frequently goes on sale at around 400-500.


----------



## nwavesailor

$799 used to be the full price cost of the LP (I bought mine for $799) and yes, they are on sale quite often.


----------



## eeagle

malocadi said:


> Did monoprice raise the price on this? Why is it being listed at $800 now? Did they realize only later how popular this amp is?


The price varies $800 is the current list price, but they are selling it for $680 on Amazon.  A lucky few got in on what was likely a pricing error last Nov for $293.74, hang in there sales come every month or so. I believe the price was $1200 when introduced back in 2018.


----------



## Marlowe

eeagle said:


> The price varies $800 is the current list price, but they are selling it for $680 on Amazon.  A lucky few got in on what was likely a pricing error last Nov for $293.74, hang in there sales come every month or so. I believe the price was $1200 when introduced back in 2018.


It was never nearly that high. The original list price was in the low to mid $700s (which was considered a relative bargain since the amp was a downsized and balanced version of Cavalli Audio's $3K Liquid Crimson, a legendary large, single ended amp of which (I think) only a couple of dozen were ever produced. The list price was subsequently increased to $800, but, as noted, it is on sale very frequently. I got mine for $500 last spring.


----------



## Shane D

I believe it started at $779.00. I bought it at $599.00.


----------



## YtseJamer

I was so lucky to get this amazing amp for $399 ($675 CAD shipping and customs fees included)


----------



## Shane D

YtseJamer said:


> I was so lucky to get this amazing amp for $399 ($675 CAD shipping and customs fees included)


You did Very well! Mine was about $1K, landed in Canada.


----------



## YtseJamer

Shane D said:


> You did Very well! Mine was about $1K, landed in Canada.



Ouch.


----------



## Shane D

YtseJamer said:


> Ouch.


It stung with the future price drops, but I don't regret it. I love the amp and it ended up being the perfect partner for my Violectric V220.


----------



## hikaru12

Has anyone compared the LP and Bottlehead Crack both with good NOS tubes? I've seen a few impressions but I'm trying to decide what interconnects I should get. I currently use RCA which I know limits the LP (even though I'm using an XLR headphone cable so I reap some benefits). My DAC sounds better balanced too but the BHC is SE only. Depending on what sounds better is what kind of cables I will get and unfortunately it's cost prohibitive to get both. Thanks!


----------



## Shane D

hikaru12 said:


> Has anyone compared the LP and Bottlehead Crack both with good NOS tubes? I've seen a few impressions but I'm trying to decide what interconnects I should get. I currently use RCA which I know limits the LP (even though I'm using an XLR headphone cable so I reap some benefits). My DAC sounds better balanced too but the BHC is SE only. Depending on what sounds better is what kind of cables I will get and unfortunately it's cost prohibitive to get both. Thanks!


On the LP the input doesn't matter and SE is fine. As long as the output is XLR, you are fine.


----------



## hikaru12

Shane D said:


> On the LP the input doesn't matter and SE is fine. As long as the output is XLR, you are fine.



You have noticed no difference going fully balanced with balanced input cables vs SE? That’s interesting.


----------



## LCMusicLover

hikaru12 said:


> You have noticed no difference going fully balanced with balanced input cables vs SE? That’s interesting.


Caveat — assuming quality of SE vs balanced sources is equal.


----------



## Shane D

hikaru12 said:


> You have noticed no difference going fully balanced with balanced input cables vs SE? That’s interesting.


No I haven't. Not even the power difference that you normally see.
Dr. Cavalli even mentioned, I believe, that the difference was negligible.


----------



## shafat777

I couldnt hear any difference between SE vs Balanced xlr input in my LP. I have tried both hooked up to my Bifrost 2 and heard no difference between the two sources


----------



## hikaru12

Shane D said:


> No I haven't. Not even the power difference that you normally see.
> Dr. Cavalli even mentioned, I believe, that the difference was negligible.



If that’s the case I’m going to upgrade my SE cables to some Darwin Truth cables. My Sky cables have been all over the place in terms of connection quality, length and bass performance. I lost the 72V battery packs that come attached to them so bass has suffered as a result. When they were working the airy midrange and bass were incredible on my Eikons.


----------



## jonathan c (Mar 14, 2021)

hikaru12 said:


> Has anyone compared the LP and Bottlehead Crack both with good NOS tubes? I've seen a few impressions but I'm trying to decide what interconnects I should get. I currently use RCA which I know limits the LP (even though I'm using an XLR headphone cable so I reap some benefits). My DAC sounds better balanced too but the BHC is SE only. Depending on what sounds better is what kind of cables I will get and unfortunately it's cost prohibitive to get both. Thanks!


I have used both the BHC and the LP with “good NOS tubes” which have included: Amperex PQ 7316, Brimar CV 4003, Lansdale 12AU7, Philips BEL 12AU7, Raytheon 7730. All these 12AU7 tubes were used with Tubemonger adapters and with Head-Fier @Deyan-built adapters (great workmanship!). I prefer the LP to the BHC with these tubes: greater dynamic range, deeper bass extension and detail without loss of “bloom”. The LP rendered the midrange in fully dimensional form and did not generate any stridency in the treble. Is all this due to tubes? to XLR versus SE? I guess both. _Note_: I use an external linear power supply with the LP....a real improvement over the stock power supply. [The LP is shown below, the BHC was gifted].


----------



## hikaru12

jonathan c said:


> I have used both the BHC and the LP with “good NOS tubes” which have included: Amperex PQ 7316, Brimar CV 4003, Lansdale 12AU7, Philips BEL 12AU7, Raytheon 7730. All these 12AU7 tubes were used with Tubemonger adapters and with Head-Fier @Deyan-built adapters (great workmanship!). I prefer the LP to the BHC with these tubes: greater dynamic range, deeper bass extension and detail without loss of “bloom”. The LP rendered the midrange in fully dimensional form and did not generate any stridency in the treble. Is all this due to tubes? to XLR versus SE? I guess both. _Note_: I use an external linear power supply with the LP....a real improvement over the stock power supply. [The LP is shown below, the BHC was gifted].


Are you using balanced inputs (not just on the headphone side) What power supply are you using? I am using a pair of Brimars on mine which I love. Just trying to maximize the sound quality as even 12au tubes can get expensive (150+). I plan on getting all the mods on my BHC but I do notice the bass does slam hard on this system.

I might get an Aeolus which is a smoother pairing with a full OTL amp like the Bottlehead and keep my Eikons with the LP which renders more forward vocals and better detail.


----------



## jonathan c (Mar 16, 2021)

hikaru12 said:


> Are you using balanced inputs (not just on the headphone side) What power supply are you using? I am using a pair of Brimars on mine which I love. Just trying to maximize the sound quality as even 12au tubes can get expensive (150+). I plan on getting all the mods on my BHC but I do notice the bass does slam hard on this system.
> 
> I might get an Aeolus which is a smoother pairing with a full OTL amp like the Bottlehead and keep my Eikons with the LP which renders more forward vocals and better detail.


(1) I am using balanced XLR cables from the Mystique DAC to the Liquid Platinum. (2) The power supply is a LPS-36, pictured below, from the ASYPDZSW store within Aliexpress. (3) For the tubes, I go back and forth between 6922 types and 12AU7 types which require adapters. In use at the moment are Siemens E188CC. (4) The LP has had stock capacitors replaced with Elna Silmic II capacitors (kudos to @ksorota!)


----------



## Louisiana

Since today, i'm member in the LP Club:


----------



## jonathan c

Louisiana said:


> Since today, i'm member in the LP Club:


Good choice of ‘tubeware’ !


----------



## Louisiana

The LP is a fabulous AMP!
I am currently using the iCAN as a preamp, the LP has so much power, it's amazing. 
That's okay for the Arya, but too much for the Empy...


----------



## Jimmyblues1959

Louisiana said:


> The LP is a fabulous AMP!
> I am currently using the iCAN as a preamp, the LP has so much power, it's amazing.
> That's okay for the Arya, but too much for the Empy...




The LP is a great headphone amplifier.   Considering the iCAN is about three times the price says a lot about the 
excellent value of the LP.  Glad you're enjoying it!  😊


----------



## Curtisvill

Has anyone tried using a pair of IEMs with their LP?  I have an addapter on it's way which will allow me to connect my 4.4 TRS terminated IEM cable to the balanced ourt in the LP.  I do not want to damage my IEMs so looking for some feedback.  Thanks.


----------



## kumar402

Curtisvill said:


> Has anyone tried using a pair of IEMs with their LP?  I have an addapter on it's way which will allow me to connect my 4.4 TRS terminated IEM cable to the balanced ourt in the LP.  I do not want to damage my IEMs so looking for some feedback.  Thanks.


Do have a preamp in chain as it gets pretty loud


----------



## sennfan83261 (Apr 5, 2021)

Curtisvill said:


> I have an addapter on it's way which will allow me to connect my 4.4 TRS terminated IEM cable to the balanced ourt in the LP.


That sounds like a good way of frying the amp if the LP's circuit topology is truly differential unless that was a typo and the 4.4 termination is actually TRRS or TRRRS (the latter being the more common of the two), which should work with a 4-pin XLR adapter if the 4.4 TRRRS is wired correctly for L+/L-/R+/R- (the ground shouldn't be connected in the adapter).


----------



## LCMusicLover

Curtisvill said:


> Has anyone tried using a pair of IEMs with their LP?  I have an addapter on it's way which will allow me to connect my 4.4 TRS terminated IEM cable to the balanced ourt in the LP.  I do not want to damage my IEMs so looking for some feedback.  Thanks.


No way I can use any of my IEMs w/ LP without my preamp to attenuate input to the amp -- way to loud at the very bottom of the useable range. Well, I guess I could turn the digital source volume way down, but don't want to do that.

My passive preamp has 64 steps -- 0 would be silent, and 63 would be full volume with no attenuation. I typically set the LP volume knob to straight-up 12 o'clock.  With full size cans I'm typically listening with the 30 - 50 range depending on the can.  With my IEMs I can't get to 20 without risking hearing damage.  If I set the LP volume to about 9 o'clock the preamp would then be at 25 - 35.

All of this is based on the 4V balanced out of my Gungnir.


----------



## cridner93

Louisiana said:


> Since today, i'm member in the LP Club:


Congrats! Great pics.


----------



## Curtisvill

sennfan83261 said:


> That sounds like a good way of frying the amp if the LP's circuit topology is truly differential unless that was a typo and the 4.4 termination is actually TRRS or TRRRS (the latter being the more common of the two), which should work with a 4-pin XLR adapter if the 4.4 TRRRS is wired correctly for L+/L-/R+/R- (the ground shouldn't be connected in the adapter).



The adapter is a Sony Pentaconn 4.4mm Balance to 4 Pin Balance XLR.  I do not use a preamp, and the DAC I use with the LP has no volume control. My Sonnet Morpheus DAC does have volume control and I am planning on trying it with the LP shortly.


----------



## DeweyCH

I'm having trouble finding it in this thread, I know it's there, but... does anyone have a list of the required caps to mod the LP? After cutting my teeth on a Darkvoice and then a BHC I'm itching to give it a try.

Or should I just stop being lazy, crack it open and look for myself?


----------



## A Jedi

DeweyCH said:


> I'm having trouble finding it in this thread, I know it's there, but... does anyone have a list of the required caps to mod the LP? After cutting my teeth on a Darkvoice and then a BHC I'm itching to give it a try.
> 
> Or should I just stop being lazy, crack it open and look for myself?


Open it up it's more fun that way. And remember, new caps only need to match the capacitance value exactly. Temp rating can be higher (but not lower) than stock.


----------



## sennfan83261

DeweyCH said:


> I'm having trouble finding it in this thread, I know it's there, but... does anyone have a list of the required caps to mod the LP? After cutting my teeth on a Darkvoice and then a BHC I'm itching to give it a try.
> 
> Or should I just stop being lazy, crack it open and look for myself?


Here's a few posts below. From what I gathered, most used Elna Silmic II caps except the cap for the XLR:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...platinum-by-alex-cavalli.876406/post-15760274
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...platinum-by-alex-cavalli.876406/post-15976045

On another forum, other cap brands were used:

https://forum.hifiguides.com/t/monolith-liquid-platinum/9820/536
https://forum.hifiguides.com/t/monolith-liquid-platinum/9820/674


----------



## DeweyCH

Thanks y'all! I'll probably toss a new pot in there while I'm at it, have some 20k stepped attenuators lying around that should be a nice upgrade.


----------



## jonathan c

A Jedi said:


> Open it up it's more fun that way. And remember, new caps only need to match the capacitance value exactly. Temp rating can be higher (but not lower) than stock.


...open it up....it’s the only way...😜


----------



## nwavesailor

You also need to keep the rated voltages at or above the OEM caps when choosing what new caps you may use.


----------



## Guidostrunk

DeweyCH said:


> Thanks y'all! I'll probably toss a new pot in there while I'm at it, have some 20k stepped attenuators lying around that should be a nice upgrade.


I'll be really curious to see you swap the pot. We did it last year over the summer with an Alps rk27 pot. Required some significant plate modifications.


----------



## DeweyCH

Guidostrunk said:


> I'll be really curious to see you swap the pot. We did it last year over the summer with an Alps rk27 pot. Required some significant plate modifications.


Was it a problem of depth? I know the rk27 well and thought I was gonna need a crowbar and a sledge to get one into my Darkvoice. Those little Dact-style attenuators on eBay are tiny in comparison so might be less of a fight.


----------



## Guidostrunk (Apr 24, 2021)

DeweyCH said:


> Was it a problem of depth? I know the rk27 well and thought I was gonna need a crowbar and a sledge to get one into my Darkvoice. Those little Dact-style attenuators on eBay are tiny in comparison so might be less of a fight.


Overall size problem. The Alps had to be wired in laying on it's side due to the height restrictions from board to chassis , resulting in the plate having to be drilled out 1 inch left and a quarter inch up. Then the process of filling in the old hole and putting a new finish on it. Here's what mine looked like after the plate mod.


----------



## DeweyCH (Apr 24, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Overall size problem. The Alps had to be wired in laying on it's side due to the height restrictions from board to chassis , resulting in the plate having to be drilled out 1 inch left and a quarter inch up. Then the process of filling in the old hole and putting a new finish on it. Here's what mine looked like after the plate mod.


Interesting. I just used a Dremel to take off that little locking post on the pot and made sure to throw a locking washer on it.

Edit: I'm a little high and misunderstood your post which is why my response doesn't actually make total sense


----------



## Guidostrunk

DeweyCH said:


> Interesting. I just used a Dremel to take off that little locking post on the pot and made sure to throw a locking washer on it.
> 
> Edit: I'm a little high and misunderstood your post which is why my response doesn't actually make total sense


I'm on the same boat and had to check my post to make sure it was competent 😂😂😂😂😂


----------



## Guidostrunk

Also jammin to this on Tidal.


----------



## A Jedi

nwavesailor said:


> You also need to keep the rated voltages at or above the OEM caps when choosing what new caps you may use.



Oh yeah, that too. Forgot to mention in my previous post.


----------



## sahmen (Apr 25, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> I'm on the same boat and had to check my post to make sure it was competent 😂😂😂😂😂





DeweyCH said:


> Interesting. I just used a Dremel to take off that little locking post on the pot and made sure to throw a locking washer on it.
> 
> Edit: I'm a little high and misunderstood your post which is why my response doesn't actually make total sense





Guidostrunk said:


> Also jammin to this on Tidal.





Guidostrunk said:


>



Hey guys, be kind and identify what "substances" you're imbibing (or inhaling) on this Liquid Platinum boat.  No way I am being left out. I want in on the party   
















*So I'm definitely having what you guys are having, so name the brew or cocktail or whatever's inside the pipe    *


----------



## Guidostrunk

sahmen said:


> Hey guys, be kind and identify what "substances" you're imbibing (or inhaling) on this Liquid Platinum boat.  No way I am being left out. I want in on the party
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Bombay sapphire gin with ruby red grapefruit juice, and purple og. 👌


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> Also jammin to this on Tidal.



Killer! Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 25, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Bombay sapphire gin with ruby red grapefruit juice, and purple og. 👌


I knew we had a connection and like a lot of the same stuff, and now I know why.   The green stuff always takes the music to the next level, and I don't ever listen without it.   Happy late 4/20!


----------



## Wes S (Apr 25, 2021)

sahmen said:


> Hey guys, be kind and identify what "substances" you're imbibing (or inhaling) on this Liquid Platinum boat.  No way I am being left out. I want in on the party
> 
> 
> 
> ...


GG#4 (Gorilla Glue OG, my all-time favorite strain) is in my pipe.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> Killer! Thanks for sharing.


The whole live album is fantastic.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> I knew we had a connection and like a lot of the same stuff, and now I know why.   The green stuff always takes the music to the next level, and I don't ever listen without it.   Happy late 4/20!


I hear ya. Freaks me out sometimes when listening. It's like being teleported right into the event. 😂


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> I hear ya. Freaks me out sometimes when listening. It's like being teleported right into the event. 😂


Heck yeah man!  I love it.


----------



## DeweyCH

sahmen said:


> Hey guys, be kind and identify what "substances" you're imbibing (or inhaling) on this Liquid Platinum boat.  No way I am being left out. I want in on the party
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mine was a couple of Boston area New England IPAs - Cloud Candy by Mighty Squirrel and Cat's Meow by Exhibit A - and two edibles with melatonin called Bedtime Bettys. Wiped me out but good.


----------



## DeweyCH

Guidostrunk said:


> I hear ya. Freaks me out sometimes when listening. It's like being teleported right into the event. 😂


I'm glad I'm not the only one who gets weirded out by this sometimes. It's like, I always wanted to be an Allman Bros roadie, but this is too real.


----------



## Guidostrunk

DeweyCH said:


> I'm glad I'm not the only one who gets weirded out by this sometimes. It's like, I always wanted to be an Allman Bros roadie, but this is too real.


Sometimes it's really spooky. I sit there literally on the edge of my seat. The only one who understands my hobby( the way i indulge in it) is my neighbor. The look on his face is priceless 🤣


----------



## sahmen (Apr 25, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Bombay sapphire gin with ruby red grapefruit juice, and purple og. 👌


*Bingo! and guilty as charged!  I gladly confess to being rather partial to Bombay Sapphire inspired gins and tonics myself.  They have a way of enhancing many aspects of the frequency spectrum in my listening, such as lowering the noise floor, improving spaciousness and detail retrieval, and adding that last crucial nth percent to bass thump and texture*  









_*I am still trying to imagine what wonders a couple of sapphire cocktails can do for the bass line and holography of that "Flute Beat Box" tune you just referenced. Tidal, here I come!*_


DeweyCH said:


> Mine was a couple of Boston area New England IPAs - Cloud Candy by Mighty Squirrel and Cat's Meow by Exhibit A - and two edibles with melatonin called Bedtime Bettys. Wiped me out but good.


*Can't say I am familiar with these brews, but i welcome the challenge of the research and experimentation with recipes. Incidentally, being located in Western Massachusetts seems like a great head start... *










Wes S said:


> GG#4 (Gorilla Glue OG, my all-time favorite strain) is in my pipe.


*Well, that's another research project for me right there!  So it seems I've got some recipe rolling, pipe rolling, and brew rolling tasks to perform with my LPs, along with the usual tube-rolling, which has now taken a pause, now that I have got a locker full of tubes I am not using.  The pipe and brew rolling is poised to take listening up another notch, into the fairy tale land of elves, and why not?  I say bring it on!*









*And whatever y'all do, never forget to enjoy the music, the perfect tonic for mental health in the pandemic!*


----------



## tenisnut333 (Apr 27, 2021)

Odin412 said:


> I agree that the gain of this amp is a bit high so I use a Schiit SYS between my DAC and the amp, which works well. (Actually, the chain is Bifrost Multibit - SYS - distribution amp - Liquid Platinum + other amps.)


Wouldn't it be much more preferable/useful if the Liquid Platinum was re-designed (by Alex Cavalli) to include a low-high gain switch (like the Singxer SA-1 ss amp) or a variable gain switch (like the Pathos Aurium hybrid tube amp)?


----------



## Odin412

tenisnut333 said:


> Wouldn't it be much more preferable/useful if the Liquid Platinum was re-designed (by Alex Cavalli) to include a low-high gain switch (like the Singxer SA-1 ss amp) or a varianble gain switch (like the Pathos Aurium hybrid tube amp)?


Yes, that would certainly be a good idea for a V2 of the Liquid Platinum. The Liquid Gold X (which was introduced after the Liquid Platinum) has a gain switch on the front panel..


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> Killer! Thanks for sharing.


Faaaak bro! This schiit is killing me right now 😂
The reverb and realism is bonkers! I loved this dude in Vulfpeck. His note range is ridiculous!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> Killer! Thanks for sharing.


Wish I could find this other than YouTube bro. I would repent all my sins!😂😂😂😂


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> Killer! Thanks for sharing.


You never imagined. More schiit I jam to.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Sorry if you hate the music folks. 😂
It's how I get down.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Ok .... enough Theo!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Just listen to this live album. 🤭
https://tidal.com/album/121947313


----------



## Donnyhifi (Apr 29, 2021)

DeweyCH said:


> I'm having trouble finding it in this thread, I know it's there, but... does anyone have a list of the required caps to mod the LP? After cutting my teeth on a Darkvoice and then a BHC I'm itching to give it a try.
> 
> Or should I just stop being lazy, crack it open and look for myself?



Hello Dewey,

I performed this mod to my amp a while ago, below is a parts list of the capacitors I installed. At first I installed a Elna SILMIC capacitor(as pictured below) at the at the balanced headphone port but found it added an abnormal level of harshness to the treble(visually speaking similar to oversharpening a photograph). I then replaced it afterwards with a Nichicon MUSE and this removed the harshness in the upper treble region while retaining the enhancements of the upgrade(much better dynamics and micro details). Big thanks to @Guidostrunk and @ksorota !

3 large capacitors replaced with: Elna SILMILC II 63V 470uf Capacitors
2 small capacitors togethor replaced with: Elna SilMILC II 35V 10uf Capacitors
1 small capacitor by the balanced headphone port replaced with: Nichicon MUSE 50V 100uf Capacitor

Hope this helps!


----------



## DeweyCH

Donnyhifi said:


> Hello Dewey,
> 
> I performed this mod to my amp a while ago, below is a parts list of the capacitors I installed. At first I installed a Elna SILMIC capacitor(as pictured below) at the at the balanced headphone port but found it added an abnormal level of harshness to the treble(visually speaking similar to oversharpening a photograph). I then replaced it afterwards with a Nichicon MUSE and this removed the harshness in the upper treble region while retaining the enhancements of the upgrade(much better dynamics and micro details). Big thanks to @Guidostrunk and @ksorota !
> 
> ...


Very much, thank you. I put in two of the large caps last night but didn't get around to finishing, the visual of how you dealt with the big caps being so much bigger than the stock ones is good to see, since I apparently was doing it right.

Thanks!


----------



## DeweyCH

Oh, and FWIW, after seeing the absurdity of how the pot is soldered into this, I ain't replacing that. It's fine the way it is.


----------



## ksorota

DeweyCH said:


> Oh, and FWIW, after seeing the absurdity of how the pot is soldered into this, I ain't replacing that. It's fine the way it is.








Size comparison with ALps RK27 and early test setup.  Lots of work to go from stock to new...one of the reason we stopped at three units completed.


----------



## DeweyCH

ksorota said:


> Size comparison with ALps RK27 and early test setup.  Lots of work to go from stock to new...one of the reason we stopped at three units completed.


Oh snap... is that a dual-mono pot? No wonder it's so huge. I was just going to throw a 20k bog-standard DACT style stepped attenuator in mine.


----------



## ksorota

DeweyCH said:


> Oh snap... is that a dual-mono pot? No wonder it's so huge. I was just going to throw a 20k bog-standard DACT style stepped attenuator in mine.


Just your run of the mill 4 gang balanced pot from Alps.  The stock part is as bargain bin as you get.


----------



## DeweyCH

ksorota said:


> Just your run of the mill 4 gang balanced pot from Alps.  The stock part is as bargain bin as you get.


Pardon my ignorance, by why a 4-gang pot? Is that required for balanced amps? I've only ever replaced pots in a Darkvoice and a Crack, both of which are (obviously) single-ended.


----------



## ksorota (Apr 29, 2021)

DeweyCH said:


> Pardon my ignorance, by why a 4-gang pot? Is that required for balanced amps? I've only ever replaced pots in a Darkvoice and a Crack, both of which are (obviously) single-ended.



Yes, for balanced operation you need a 4-gang.  You can see the original is also a four gang, which is why you have the 12 connection.  Each channel gets output, ground, input.

Stock attenuator is 50k btw


----------



## DeweyCH

Well, took me forever to get around to finishing it, but I pulled off the cap upgrade. Mostly just a lack of time and it being a PITA to get those little screwers out of the PCB. No idea yet if it sounds better, but it sounds good and didn't explode when I turned it on, so... bonus!

Did not replace the pot. That's just silly amounts of work for someone as insecure about his soldering skills as me.


----------



## A Jedi

DeweyCH said:


> didn't explode when I turned it on



That right there is key lol.


----------



## DeweyCH

A Jedi said:


> That right there is key lol.


Mostly means my expectations about accidentally creating a solder link between the two legs of a cap or putting in a cap backwards was just good ol' fashioned paranoia.


----------



## YtseJamer

The LP is on sale at $499

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=33305


----------



## LCMusicLover

YtseJamer said:


> The LP is on sale at $499
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=33305





elwappo99 said:


> Halfway2bf takes 15% off of that
> 
> $425!


----------



## MamiyeAcoustics

Check out this new review on the Violectric V550. Anyone here heard this one yet ?


----------



## Jimmyblues1959 (May 13, 2021)

Got my last Cavalli LP for $399.99 plus tax via Monoprice.  A great price for the sound quality this headphone amp is
capable of.

I am waiting for another Monoprice $293 special for the LP,  to pull the trigger on.  I like this headphone
amp so much that having 2 is fine as long as the price is right....

Have heard nice things about the Violectric HPA V550.   Have not had the opportunity to listen to
one though...


----------



## Delta9K

MamiyeAcoustics said:


> Check out this new review on the Violectric V550. Anyone here heard this one yet ?



I have a V200 and a V281. I am a candidate for a V550 or 590 soon. Thanks for posting the review. I will check it out.


----------



## Jimmyblues1959

Delta9K said:


> I have a V200 and a V281. I am a candidate for a V550 or 590 soon. Thanks for posting the review. I will check it out.



I have a vintage Violectric HPA V100 and it's very well constructed.   Have always liked the attention to detail
that goes into these products.   The latest Violectric headphone amplifiers look impressive to say the least.
A bit out of my price range though. 😊


----------



## Wes S

This is the LP thread right?


----------



## Jimmyblues1959

Wes S said:


> This is the LP thread right?


Yes


----------



## azkkr

Has anyone tried the LP with all open back ZMFs? I read a lot about its synergy with the Aeolus and wondering if it also works well with the Auteur and Verite Open. I am looking to build a system around the ZMF open back trinity and considering the LP as the main amp. Any thoughts/suggestions are most welcome. Cheers!


----------



## PopZeus (Jun 3, 2021)

azkkr said:


> Has anyone tried the LP with all open back ZMFs? I read a lot about its synergy with the Aeolus and wondering if it also works well with the Auteur and Verite Open. I am looking to build a system around the ZMF open back trinity and considering the LP as the main amp. Any thoughts/suggestions are most welcome. Cheers!



Honestly, if you're going with a ZMF heavy collection, I'd look at real tube amps. I'm not super well-versed in them, so I hesitate to mention anything specific. BHC seems to be a big hit though if you're into DIY. Cayin also, if you're into the idea of rolling (upgrading) tubes. Schiit, if you're able to get it shipped. But there are so many others that I'm not mentioning. I love the ZDT Jr with the Aeolus. It's just something different from anything hybrid or solid state, imho.


----------



## ksorota

azkkr said:


> Has anyone tried the LP with all open back ZMFs? I read a lot about its synergy with the Aeolus and wondering if it also works well with the Auteur and Verite Open. I am looking to build a system around the ZMF open back trinity and considering the LP as the main amp. Any thoughts/suggestions are most welcome. Cheers!



SW51 or Pendant


----------



## shafat777

azkkr said:


> Has anyone tried the LP with all open back ZMFs? I read a lot about its synergy with the Aeolus and wondering if it also works well with the Auteur and Verite Open. I am looking to build a system around the ZMF open back trinity and considering the LP as the main amp. Any thoughts/suggestions are most welcome. Cheers!


I actually do own all three and they sound excellent. I will mention that my LP is cap-modded and Im using 12au7 tubes with my unit. If you are using stock LP and tubes, then youre experience might varry. 

I like my Auteur with LP and is my favorite setup for that hp. my LP is tuned towards low end boost and 3d, holographic soundstage and combined that with my auteur, its a match made in heaven. It really opens up the auteur even more and the 12au7 tubes really help  bring out the low end of the auteur that some people, including myself to be a little lacking especially with their stock auteur pads. I think the LP works really well with zmf cans especially if you use all balanced input and output.


----------



## Bob Ley

what's Halfway2bf?


----------



## Aquileolus

shafat777 said:


> I actually do own all three and they sound excellent. I will mention that my LP is cap-modded and Im using 12au7 tubes with my unit. If you are using stock LP and tubes, then youre experience might varry.
> 
> I like my Auteur with LP and is my favorite setup for that hp. my LP is tuned towards low end boost and 3d, holographic soundstage and combined that with my auteur, its a match made in heaven. It really opens up the auteur even more and the 12au7 tubes really help  bring out the low end of the auteur that some people, including myself to be a little lacking especially with their stock auteur pads. I think the LP works really well with zmf cans especially if you use all balanced input and output.


Hi, I'm also a LP owner and currently waiting for my Verite Closed, I saw VC is also in your collection, wondering how does that work with your LP? Thanks


----------



## azkkr

PopZeus said:


> Honestly, if you're going with a ZMF heavy collection, I'd look at real tube amps. I'm not super well-versed in them, so I hesitate to mention anything specific. BHC seems to be a big hit though if you're into DIY. Cayin also, if you're into the idea of rolling (upgrading) tubes. Schiit, if you're able to get it shipped. But there are so many others that I'm not mentioning. I love the ZDT Jr with the Aeolus. It's just something different from anything hybrid or solid state, imho.


Thanks for the advice. Will look into those options but I pretty much have my heart set on the LP. 



shafat777 said:


> I actually do own all three and they sound excellent. I will mention that my LP is cap-modded and Im using 12au7 tubes with my unit. If you are using stock LP and tubes, then youre experience might varry.
> 
> I like my Auteur with LP and is my favorite setup for that hp. my LP is tuned towards low end boost and 3d, holographic soundstage and combined that with my auteur, its a match made in heaven. It really opens up the auteur even more and the 12au7 tubes really help bring out the low end of the auteur that some people, including myself to be a little lacking especially with their stock auteur pads. I think the LP works really well with zmf cans especially if you use all balanced input and output.


Great insights, much appreciated. Will definitely look into the cap mod and consider the 12au7 tubes if I get the LP. It is a very tempting proposition, especially after reading your description of how nice it pairs with the Auteur. I can only imagine how syrupy it makes Aeolus sound, right?  And I would also be keen on your thoughts on its pairing with the Verite if you don't mind sharing. It does sound like a really good option for a ZMF-centric system. Thanks!


----------



## Wes S

ksorota said:


> SW51 or Pendant


I completely agree, those are definitely 2 of the best amps available for ZMF dynamics.


----------



## azkkr

Unfortuantely, both of those are really difficult to get a hold of in the UK. They are also outside my budget and a bit too big for my listening space. The other options I am considering are the Haggerman Tuba and the Feliks Echo MKII (and maybe the Cayin HA-1A MK2). Will probably post a similar question on those respective threads to not hijack this one.


----------



## Jimmyblues1959

azkkr said:


> Unfortuantely, both of those are really difficult to get a hold of in the UK. They are also outside my budget and a bit too big for my listening space. The other options I am considering are the Haggerman Tuba and the Feliks Echo MKII (and maybe the Cayin HA-1A MK2). Will probably post a similar question on those respective threads to not hijack this one.



The Tuba is a great headphone amp with a transferable 10 year warranty.  My Hagerman Castanet has been going strong
for 13 years.  Jim Hagerman builds great sounding products that are built to last. I believe that Jim also offers a 30
day return  if you are not completely satisfied.


----------



## shafat777

azkkr said:


> Thanks for the advice. Will look into those options but I pretty much have my heart set on the LP.
> 
> 
> Great insights, much appreciated. Will definitely look into the cap mod and consider the 12au7 tubes if I get the LP. It is a very tempting proposition, especially after reading your description of how nice it pairs with the Auteur. I can only imagine how syrupy it makes Aeolus sound, right?  And I would also be keen on your thoughts on its pairing with the Verite if you don't mind sharing. It does sound like a really good option for a ZMF-centric system. Thanks!


To be completely fair, I did not like the LP with my zmf cans at first. it sounded kinda sterile and lifeless, especially when i was comparing the LP with my beloved Hagerman Tuba tube amp (now sold). However, after i got the cap mod done, it was a different story. The modded LP sounds twice as wide and deep with very punchy bass, well controlled mid bass and clean vocals. The highs have more layers and the details arent too overbearing. When it comes to the VC and the VO, the LP is excellent amp that can easily keep up with much higher end tube/otl amps. Because of the tubes that im rolling, (brimar CV 4034) the VC sounds really holographic. The 3d soundstage, coupled with deep, rumbling sub bass is very enjoyable. With the VO, the holographic soundstage is further enhanced but layers upon layers of high end treble and details. In short, the LP matches the dynamics of the ZMF cans. For less than $600, I have yet to find an amp that plays well with so many headphones.


----------



## azkkr

shafat777 said:


> To be completely fair, I did not like the LP with my zmf cans at first. it sounded kinda sterile and lifeless, especially when i was comparing the LP with my beloved Hagerman Tuba tube amp (now sold). However, after i got the cap mod done, it was a different story. The modded LP sounds twice as wide and deep with very punchy bass, well controlled mid bass and clean vocals. The highs have more layers and the details arent too overbearing. When it comes to the VC and the VO, the LP is excellent amp that can easily keep up with much higher end tube/otl amps. Because of the tubes that im rolling, (brimar CV 4034) the VC sounds really holographic. The 3d soundstage, coupled with deep, rumbling sub bass is very enjoyable. With the VO, the holographic soundstage is further enhanced but layers upon layers of high end treble and details. In short, the LP matches the dynamics of the ZMF cans. For less than $600, I have yet to find an amp that plays well with so many headphones.


Thanks for the detailed explanation. So LP + mod cap is the way to go. It's interesting that you mention the Tuba which is another one of the amps on my very shortlist. Is it because of the LP mod that you decided to par with the Tuba?


----------



## shafat777

azkkr said:


> Thanks for the detailed explanation. So LP + mod cap is the way to go. It's interesting that you mention the Tuba which is another one of the amps on my very shortlist. Is it because of the LP mod that you decided to par with the Tuba?


Not really. The reason i kept the LP is because of its versatility. It has plenty of power, even for a HE6. it works well with low and high impedance headphones, especially big planars. The tuba is a great amp. It also has a decent amount of power but it didnt play well with my Audezes and He1000se. So i wanted to keep just the LP especially since it can take a lot of different tubes with adapters and hence it can be tuned to match almost any headphone on the market. 

If youre interested in matching an amp with Zmf cans, then another good option is the Feliks Echo. Its an OTL amp so it wont play well with low impedance hp but its a match made in heaven for ZMF. I am using its bigger sibling, the Elise and its my exclusive amp to pair with ZMF.


----------



## sahmen

By the way I have a nice modded extra LP (practically unused) that I am willing to let go for the right offer.  I got overzealous and ordered this second LP during one of the Monoprice sales, and also got it modded by @ksorota . Unfortunately, or fortunately, it is seeing next to no use at all, because I am discovering again what I already knew before buying this second LP, namely, that I really only need just one of them at this time, which I already did before going buying this second one.  It is also not quite kosher to have a great sounding amp like this simply sitting idly by without some enthusiast enjoying it, especially when I can easily re-invest the returns from it in too many other pieces of gear that I also currently need, so there there you have it if interested.  By the way, this is the cap-modded one, and that is why I am posting it here first, because I am thinking that visitors to this forum are best placed to understand what the cap-modding and its benefits are at this time.  Later on, I am going to post it in the classifieds, as well, if I do not find any interested parties here.

here is the little bad boy:


----------



## azkkr

Definitely interested. I'll send you a PM in a few minutes.


----------



## LCMusicLover

sahmen said:


> By the way I have a nice modded extra LP (practically unused) that I am willing to let go for the right offer.  I got overzealous and ordered this second LP during one of the Monoprice sales ...


Funny, I could tell almost the same story except that I decided to keep my 2nd LP as a spare/back up.  My 2nd gets _some _use as I can run 2 amps from my preamp. Usually it's LP & DSHA-3F, but sometimes I like to be able to compare two cans from the same amp, or compare tubes without having to go through the power off/on cycle.

Honestly, it's just insurance, since I know I wouldn't get any warranty support for my cap-modded amps.

I guess that's a quantitative measure of how my I like the modded LP -- ('So you know that modification voids your warranty, right?  That's OK, I'll buy 2, just in case').


----------



## azkkr

shafat777 said:


> Not really. The reason i kept the LP is because of its versatility. It has plenty of power, even for a HE6. it works well with low and high impedance headphones, especially big planars. The tuba is a great amp. It also has a decent amount of power but it didnt play well with my Audezes and He1000se. So i wanted to keep just the LP especially since it can take a lot of different tubes with adapters and hence it can be tuned to match almost any headphone on the market.
> 
> If youre interested in matching an amp with Zmf cans, then another good option is the Feliks Echo. Its an OTL amp so it wont play well with low impedance hp but its a match made in heaven for ZMF. I am using its bigger sibling, the Elise and its my exclusive amp to pair with ZMF.


Thanks once more. I have a feeling I will end up getting more than one (one for each of the ZMFs?). But it might be that the LP is the perfect start. Tuba and Echo are must try in the future. Cheers!


----------



## Jimmyblues1959

azkkr said:


> Thanks once more. I have a feeling I will end up getting more than one (one for each of the ZMFs?). But it might be that the LP is the perfect start. Tuba and Echo are must try in the future. Cheers!



Waiting for Monoprice to have another sale on the LP at the $283 price, to snag a second one. 😉.   It's a great sounding piece
of gear.


----------



## sahmen (Jun 4, 2021)

LCMusicLover said:


> Funny, I could tell almost the same story except that I decided to keep my 2nd LP as a spare/back up.  My 2nd gets _some _use as I can run 2 amps from my preamp. Usually it's LP & DSHA-3F, but sometimes I like to be able to compare two cans from the same amp, or compare tubes without having to go through the power off/on cycle.
> 
> Honestly, it's just insurance, since I know I wouldn't get any warranty support for my cap-modded amps.
> 
> I guess that's a quantitative measure of how my I like the modded LP -- ('So you know that modification voids your warranty, right?  That's OK, I'll buy 2, just in case').


I can certainly relate to the "insurance" idea, which was one of the rationalizations I used to justify the purchase of the 2nd LP.  However, all that happened before I got a Flux Lab Fa-10 to experiment with my Susvara, followed by a Topping A90...

I wouldn't even bother to mention the Liquid Spark I still have not found any real use for, and the original Cavalli Liquid Carbon, which I initially purchased to use as a transportable solution, while traveling (and still do), if I didn't think I have now got a real "glut" of amps in the sub $800 range on my hands, not to mention a serious "hoarder's" habit to kick. Yeah, what a display of "first world" problems in a pandemic era, right?  I know.  However, I think this was all getting to be entirely too much, even for someone who once used to love everything "Cavalli."  Okay, I am not completely "cured" yet, but at least I am trying


----------



## Ham Sandwich

One cannot have too many Cavalli amps. I have 9. Not going to sell any of them.


----------



## jonathan c

Jimmyblues1959 said:


> Waiting for Monoprice to have another sale on the LP at the $283 price, to snag a second one. 😉.   It's a great sounding piece
> of gear.


That $283 was a Monoprice snafu which lasted 16 minutes. I was one who “captured” that price. The lowest “nonfu” price that I have seen over time is $399.


----------



## Jimmyblues1959

jonathan c said:


> That $283 was a Monoprice snafu which lasted 16 minutes. I was one who “captured” that price. The lowest “nonfu” price that I have seen over time is $399.


awaiting another snafu.  😉


----------



## Jimmyblues1959

Ham Sandwich said:


> One cannot have too many Cavalli amps. I have 9. Not going to sell any of them.


I like the way you think!


----------



## Delta9K

Listening with the LP for the first time in a while. I've forgotten how nice this amp can sound.
Bifrost 2 -> LP (6922 Amperex PQ Gold pin) -> TH900mk2 LE Pearl White

I usually work the LCD2pf of this chain but got a wild notion to try the mk2, pleasantly surprised.


----------



## jonathan c

Delta9K said:


> Listening with the LP for the first time in a while. I've forgotten how nice this amp can sound.
> Bifrost 2 -> LP (6922 Amperex PQ Gold pin) -> TH900mk2 LE Pearl White
> 
> I usually work the LCD2pf of this chain but got a wild notion to try the mk2, pleasantly surprised.


Nice choice of LP “tube ammo”!


----------



## Stylish

My Cavalli collection is slowly growing... Saw the Liquid Platinum at a pretty good price new, I definitely have enjoyed it but still need to burn it in, I really wanna get into modding it or tube rolling.


----------



## danny87

Hi all 👋

I've been reading through the thread, and it seems the general consensus is that the unbalanced out is worse than the balanced out.

But I wonder if we're looking at the unbalanced out by itself and not comparing to the balanced out, is it really that bad?

Reason I'm asking is that I'm interested in this amp, but all of my headphones are single ended. I'm planning to make my HD600 balanced, but I can't afford to do the same to all my other headphones. So HD600 will be balanced, others unbalanced (Denon D7200, Ananda, M50X, HD58X, Meze Noir). Is it still then worth it to get the amp for this proposed setup? Will the unbalanced headphones sound worse than say a O2 amp or any sub 100$ amp?

Thanks in advance 🙏


----------



## WaveTheory

danny87 said:


> Hi all 👋
> 
> I've been reading through the thread, and it seems the general consensus is that the unbalanced out is worse than the balanced out.
> 
> ...


Hi. Good question. IMO the SE output of the MLP gives performance that is not in line with its price. It will be better than an O2, but not the jump the XLR output would give you. Are you looking for specifically a hybrid tube amp? If so, I'd look into the Schiit Lyr 3. If you're ok with solid state, I think the Lake People G111 would work well with your set of headphones. 

May I also ask what headphone you listen to most and what music you like most? You mention HD600, if you reach for that one a lot you should get a tube amp for it. You've never really heard the 600/650 until you've heard them on a tube.


----------



## danny87

WaveTheory said:


> Hi. Good question. IMO the SE output of the MLP gives performance that is not in line with its price. It will be better than an O2, but not the jump the XLR output would give you. Are you looking for specifically a hybrid tube amp? If so, I'd look into the Schiit Lyr 3. If you're ok with solid state, I think the Lake People G111 would work well with your set of headphones.
> 
> May I also ask what headphone you listen to most and what music you like most? You mention HD600, if you reach for that one a lot you should get a tube amp for it. You've never really heard the 600/650 until you've heard them on a tube.


Thanks for your reply!

My go to would be the HD600 followed by the D7200. I'm pairing the HD600 with a Darkvoice, but I'm looking for a hybrid tube amp hoping that I could get at least some tube sound characteristics into my other headphones (since the Darkvoice doesn't play well with the other headphones). I understand the LP isn't particularly tubey like a pure tube amp is, but I have a preference for tubes even if it doesn't sound all that gooey or syrupy. It just sounds different than SS but I can't describe it well, so I may be wrong.

I usually listen to instrumental jazz on the D7200, and jazz with vocals and classic rock on HD600.

The Lyr 3 is actually in my consideration as well, though I'm more intrigued by the generous amount of praise for the Liquid Platinum and the Alex Cavalli name.


----------



## Slade01

danny87 said:


> Thanks for your reply!
> 
> My go to would be the HD600 followed by the D7200. I'm pairing the HD600 with a Darkvoice, but I'm looking for a hybrid tube amp hoping that I could get at least some tube sound characteristics into my other headphones (since the Darkvoice doesn't play well with the other headphones). I understand the LP isn't particularly tubey like a pure tube amp is, but I have a preference for tubes even if it doesn't sound all that gooey or syrupy. It just sounds different than SS but I can't describe it well, so I may be wrong.
> 
> ...



I have both the darkvoice and the LP.  My HD6XX never touch the LP.   I'm sorry - but personally, the HD6XX and DV is married. LOL.  To me personally, it just sounds leagues better in the Darkvoice.   Don't get me wrong, the LP is capable of driving your HD600.  But all in all, for me, the LP serves my planars and lower impedance cans.  

And if you get the LP caps modded - its on a whole other level.


----------



## ksorota (Jun 17, 2021)

HD600 with LP is a very good combination!  I am sure the Lyr 3 is as well, but I have not heard it.  Though it is not a full on tube amp, it does impart a lot of the tube magic that you are looking for!

I should add, whether or not you do the cap mod, make sure you get some adapters to run 12au7 tube variants...thats when the real benefits of tube rolling can be realized!


----------



## danny87

Slade01 said:


> I have both the darkvoice and the LP.  My HD6XX never touch the LP.   I'm sorry - but personally, the HD6XX and DV is married. LOL.  To me personally, it just sounds leagues better in the Darkvoice.   Don't get me wrong, the LP is capable of driving your HD600.  But all in all, for me, the LP serves my planars and lower impedance cans.
> 
> And if you get the LP caps modded - its on a whole other level.


Sorry to derail the thread, but I'm just wondering what tubes are you using on your DV. I'm actually thinking that I might sell off the DV if the LP sounds good enough with the HD600. Just trying to minimize the amount of dac and amps on my work desk.



ksorota said:


> HD600 with LP is a very good combination!  I am sure the Lyr 3 is as well, but I have not heard it.  Though it is not a full on tube amp, it does impart a lot of the tube magic that you are looking for!
> 
> I should add, whether or not you do the cap mod, make sure you get some adapters to run 12au7 tube variants...thats when the real benefits of tube rolling can be realized!


The Lyr 3 does seem to be more practical. I'll do some more reading to compare these two, as I've narrowed down my choices to these two as of now. Thanks for the heads up on the 12au7 adapters 👍


----------



## WaveTheory

danny87 said:


> but I have a preference for tubes even if it doesn't sound all that gooey or syrupy. It just sounds different than SS but I can't describe it well,



You're preaching to the choir, my friend! Tubes impart a character that is quite enjoyable, IMO. Tube amps can run the gammit from wet and gooey (like Darkvoice) through very dry and detail-oriented, but they always maintain that euphonic quality. My main headphone rig currently does not have tubes, but I still have tube amps and preamps around for other things. Someday I may add a higher-end tube amp to my main headphone rig, too. We'll see.

In looking at your headphone list, the 7200 is the only one I see that is truly SE-only. All the rest just need a balanced cable. You mention not being able to afford balancing all your headphones. That may be true initially, but "I can't afford" is something I told myself a lot. Then eventually, well, just look at my signature. You figure it out. For cabling in this mid-fi range, Hart Audio Cables is a quite economic solution.

That doesn't solve the 7200 issue with MLP...that one is trickier. If you're good with tools and soldering, the 7200 can be modded without extreme difficulty to accept a detachable cable, which can be a balanced cable. I did that with my TH-X00 once upon a time. 

But also, you can consider all this in stages. If you like the Darkvoice + HD600 sound but want a technical upgrade, the Bottlehead Crack + Speedball will maintain that basic signature but give you more detail, clarity, and tighten up the spatial performance. The BHC + Speedball can be had around $700 fully assembled by some guy on Etsy...James something?...don't remember the name. They also occasionally pop up used for less. Or you can buy the kit and build it yourself. But, if you're willing to go the kit route, then I would take the modding of the 7200 idea all the more seriously. At any rate, going BHC will upgrade your HD600 experience. Then you can save up and buy a mid-tier solid state amp, like the G111, to use with the rest of your cans.

Good luck to you! It's a fun journey!


----------



## Slade01 (Jun 17, 2021)

danny87 said:


> Sorry to derail the thread, but I'm just wondering what tubes are you using on your DV. I'm actually thinking that I might sell off the DV if the LP sounds good enough with the HD600. Just trying to minimize the amount of dac and amps on my work desk.


No worries.  I was sort of in the same boat as you at one point.  I was selling off gear - I had intended on selling the DV as well, but couldn't bring myself to do it, especially if I intended to keep the 6xx which I did.  I couldn't find a hybrid amp that produced the same sound/experience as with a full tube amp for the 6xx specifically.  

I would definitely try your HD600 first with hybrid amps before you make a decision on the DV.  It's just one of those things you just have to hear for yourself to really know.

I've settled down with tube rolling for the DV.  I currently and mostly run 6J5 (mostly raytheon, visseaux, gec l63, etc.) tubes (w/adapter).  For 6SN7s - i switch between Melz (6N8M, 1578), or a Brimar.     Power tubes - swap between: Sylvania GB6080, GEC 6080, or a pair of CV4079 (w/adapter).

Tube rolling rabbit hole is insane. 

Oh and yeah +1 to what what @ksorota said - if you get the LP - the adapters to run 12AU7 is a must to elevate the game for sure.


----------



## Jimmyblues1959

WaveTheory said:


> You're preaching to the choir, my friend! Tubes impart a character that is quite enjoyable, IMO. Tube amps can run the gammit from wet and gooey (like Darkvoice) through very dry and detail-oriented, but they always maintain that euphonic quality. My main headphone rig currently does not have tubes, but I still have tube amps and preamps around for other things. Someday I may add a higher-end tube amp to my main headphone rig, too. We'll see.
> 
> In looking at your headphone list, the 7200 is the only one I see that is truly SE-only. All the rest just need a balanced cable. You mention not being able to afford balancing all your headphones. That may be true initially, but "I can't afford" is something I told myself a lot. Then eventually, well, just look at my signature. You figure it out. For cabling in this mid-fi range, Hart Audio Cables is a quite economic solution.
> 
> ...



Or any number of the OTL tube headphone amps offered by Eufonika.  My Eufonika H4 sounds terrific with my higher impedance headphones, including my Sennheiser HD600, HD6XX, and my AKG K240 Sextett.   Cost is about $400.


----------



## danny87

WaveTheory said:


> You're preaching to the choir, my friend! Tubes impart a character that is quite enjoyable, IMO. Tube amps can run the gammit from wet and gooey (like Darkvoice) through very dry and detail-oriented, but they always maintain that euphonic quality. My main headphone rig currently does not have tubes, but I still have tube amps and preamps around for other things. Someday I may add a higher-end tube amp to my main headphone rig, too. We'll see.
> 
> In looking at your headphone list, the 7200 is the only one I see that is truly SE-only. All the rest just need a balanced cable. You mention not being able to afford balancing all your headphones. That may be true initially, but "I can't afford" is something I told myself a lot. Then eventually, well, just look at my signature. You figure it out. For cabling in this mid-fi range, Hart Audio Cables is a quite economic solution.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice! I have been actually considering the BHC for the HD600, but at the same time I'm trying to go the minimalistic route with an amp, that is to say I'm looking at a single amp that would be good for all my headphones (or most headphones, as I tend to change my headphones regularly apart from the HD600 and D7200 as these two are my favourites). So far the LP seems to be best tube hybrid for the price, and I was pretty much set on getting it until I saw the comments on the poor unbalanced out performance. But if the unbalanced out is at least better than the usual sub-$100 amp recommendations (O2, atom, magni, etc), I wouldn't mind really. I may slowly upgrade my headphones to balanced cables. I guess no harm to get the LP and see how the unbalanced out performs and decide from there.


----------



## danny87

Slade01 said:


> No worries.  I was sort of in the same boat as you at one point.  I was selling off gear - I had intended on selling the DV as well, but couldn't bring myself to do it, especially if I intended to keep the 6xx which I did.  I couldn't find a hybrid amp that produced the same sound/experience as with a full tube amp for the 6xx specifically.
> 
> I would definitely try your HD600 first with hybrid amps before you make a decision on the DV.  It's just one of those things you just have to hear for yourself to really know.
> 
> ...


That's a lot of tubes. I'm aware of the tube rolling rabbit hole and I try to avoid it lol (mainly because the prices for recommended tubes for DV are insane and cost more than my DV). I have settled on a Tung Sol 6SN7GTB as it at least gives better details and tighter bass compared to the stock tubes.

You're right, it's probably best to get the LP first and compare it with the DV before deciding to sell off the DV. That seems to be the plan so far, unless I'm tempted by the Lyr.


----------



## jonathan c

Jimmyblues1959 said:


> Or any number of the OTL tube headphone amps offered by Eufonika.  My Eufonika H4 sounds terrific with my higher impedance headphones, including my Sennheiser HD600, HD6XX, and my AKG K240 Sextett.   Cost is about $400.


I will add the Schiit Valhalla II OTL tube h/p/a starting at $349. I have one in shipment even though I own a Woo WA3 OTL. Why? I am intrigued by the low (for an OTL h/p/a) output impedance of the Valhalla II and the prospect of driving Focal Clear (OG), Gjallarhorn JM Edition, and Audeze LCD-X with the Valhalla II. Then there is the tube rolling…😜👍…


----------



## ksorota

jonathan c said:


> I will add the Schiit Valhalla II OTL tube h/p/a starting at $349. I have one in shipment even though I own a Woo WA3 OTL. Why? I am intrigued by the low (for an OTL h/p/a) output impedance of the Valhalla II and the prospect of driving Focal Clear (OG), Gjallarhorn JM Edition, and Audeze LCD-X with the Valhalla II. Then there is the tube rolling…😜👍…


I am on a passive search for a Valhalla 2.  Their is a Lyr 1 for sale on Ebay with a nice tube compliment, but it seems a bit too pricey. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/303851197275?hash=item46bef1535b:g:jL8AAOSwnNRgBHj2

If I find a good deal on a used Valhalla 2, I will pick one up to play with.


----------



## jonathan c

ksorota said:


> I am on a passive search for a Valhalla 2.  Their is a Lyr 1 for sale on Ebay with a nice tube compliment, but it seems a bit too pricey.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/303851197275?hash=item46bef1535b:g:jL8AAOSwnNRgBHj2
> 
> If I find a good deal on a used Valhalla 2, I will pick one up to play with.


The yellow case would be a good Footscray resting domain…


----------



## Wes S

ksorota said:


> I am on a passive search for a Valhalla 2.  Their is a Lyr 1 for sale on Ebay with a nice tube compliment, but it seems a bit too pricey.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/303851197275?hash=item46bef1535b:g:jL8AAOSwnNRgBHj2
> 
> If I find a good deal on a used Valhalla 2, I will pick one up to play with.


Oh man!  I just sold my V2 for a killer price with a bunch of tubes too.  I wish I would have known you were looking for one bro, and I hope you find one soon.  The V2 is fun little amp, no doubt.


----------



## ksorota

Wes S said:


> Oh man!  I just sold my V2 for a killer price with a bunch of tubes too.  I wish I would have known you were looking for one bro, and I hope you find one soon.  The V2 is fun little amp, no doubt.



No worries Wes. Its not a priority and although it would have been great to get yours, I can be patient.  I’m also looking at the WA3 as an option. Both would be fun to own, but the Woo is a little bit prettier imo.


----------



## Zachik

ksorota said:


> I can be patient.


You're not a real audiophile...


----------



## muckyfingers

Selling my modded Liquid Platinum, if anyone is interested.

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/fs-modded-liquid-platinum-elna-ii-and-kz-muze.6241/


----------



## dstarr3

Just got a Liquid Platinum the other week. My goal is that I want maximum soundstage out of my AKG K702, which I understand tubes can influence. Any recommendations on what tubes to get to maximize the soundstage? Thanks!


----------



## LCMusicLover

dstarr3 said:


> Just got a Liquid Platinum the other week. My goal is that I want maximum soundstage out of my AKG K702, which I understand tubes can influence. Any recommendations on what tubes to get to maximize the soundstage? Thanks!


Brimar CV-2492 if you don't want to go to 12AU7 adapters. Definitely the most open/airy headstage I've heard from my LP w/ 6922 family tubes.

Here's an example (I know nothing of this seller, just wanted to show exact item):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/384187285919?epid=26032766243&hash=item597358c19f:g:aWsAAOSwD5Zgrgry

But if you want more options and more opinions, dive into this thread:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/liquid-platinum-tube-rollers.898852/unread

Nearly 1600 posts, and at least 2 strong opinions


----------



## dstarr3

LCMusicLover said:


> But if you want more options and more opinions, dive into this thread:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/liquid-platinum-tube-rollers.898852/unread



That's the thread I thought I was posting in. D'oh! Thanks


----------



## Guidostrunk

LCMusicLover said:


> Brimar CV-2492 if you don't want to go to 12AU7 adapters. Definitely the most open/airy headstage I've heard from my LP w/ 6922 family tubes.
> 
> Here's an example (I know nothing of this seller, just wanted to show exact item):
> 
> ...


That would be my choice if no adapters lol. 😁


----------



## dstarr3

I'm not opposed to using adapters, unless there's a reason I should be.


----------



## equalspeace

Just waiting for the LP to go on sale again and I will surely pull the trigger. Been giving it many long looks


----------



## sennfan83261

LCMusicLover said:


> Brimar CV-2492 if you don't want to go to 12AU7 adapters. Definitely the most open/airy headstage I've heard from my LP w/ 6922 family tubes.


At the expense of being featherlight with its sound to my ears. They are just too lightweight for me personally, which I guess is a tradeoff for its openness/airiness. That's is why I've been with the 12AU7/5814A's for awhile (lately, Raytheon D-getters and RCA command 5814A's), which have a nice open soundstage together with a meatier sound for more impact.


----------



## Guidostrunk

dstarr3 said:


> I'm not opposed to using adapters, unless there's a reason I should be.


Nothing wrong with adapters using 12au7 variants. 
Here's the adapters needed.
https://pulsetubestore.com/products...uction-base-9-pin-b9a-noval-not-made-in-china

I highly recommend these tubes here if you get adapters and go that route.
https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/ecc82-cv491-brimar-kb-fb-17mm-plate-nos-valve-tube/


----------



## LCMusicLover

dstarr3 said:


> I'm not opposed to using adapters, unless there's a reason I should be.


In which case I can recommend @Deyan — he custom-makes adapters and I’m quite happy with the ones he made for me.


----------



## dstarr3

Would these be a good example of what's being talked about here? 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Strong-M...uare-D-Getter-12AU7-ECC82-Tubes-/114811245818

Also I already have socket savers installed. Is there any reason to not stack an adapter on top of a socket saver?


----------



## sennfan83261 (Jul 10, 2021)

dstarr3 said:


> Would these be a good example of what's being talked about here?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Strong-M...uare-D-Getter-12AU7-ECC82-Tubes-/114811245818
> 
> Also I already have socket savers installed. Is there any reason to not stack an adapter on top of a socket saver?


Yes. However, I purchased a similar matched pair from that seller and it was noisy AF in my LP, even after letting them sit there for more than 30mins. The seller does accept returns, but was pretty uppity about it. I've had better luck from sellers who not only tested them on their tube analyzers to make sure that the tubes were matched but also tested them on in their monoblock amps to ensure that the tube pair was noise free. Still, in my experience, advertised matched pairs that I bought on ebay rarely turned out to be noisy (3 out of 20 or so). Just make sure that the seller accepts returns. Also, pay by paypal if possible since paypal adds further protections for the buyer. Personally, I hate returning tubes but if I spent $60 for a matched pair that should work on my system but didn't, then I'm returning them. If I spent $20 on a pair, and felt that I got a good deal but they didn't work on my LP, then I'd chuck them on my CTH (e.g. received a noisy raytheon 12AU7 O-getter/black plate matched pair from tubemaze's ebay store for $20).

As for stacking an adapter on top of a socket saver, why not? In my case, the tubemonger socket savers for 6922's are wedged in there pretty good (req's a locking plier to get them out), so I just leave them in there unless I need to open up the LP for servicing or modding.


----------



## dstarr3

LCMusicLover said:


> Brimar CV-2492 if you don't want to go to 12AU7 adapters. Definitely the most open/airy headstage I've heard from my LP w/ 6922 family tubes.
> 
> Here's an example (I know nothing of this seller, just wanted to show exact item):
> 
> ...



I'm sorry, I'm still very tube-stupid. Would this be a good example of Brimar CV2492s to buy?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/313432138491


----------



## Guidostrunk

dstarr3 said:


> I'm sorry, I'm still very tube-stupid. Would this be a good example of Brimar CV2492s to buy?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/313432138491


These are the ones I'd get. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Unique-2-x...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> These are the ones I'd get.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Unique-2-x...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0


You can trust this seller imo, bought from him before guys.


----------



## Zachik

TK16 said:


> You can trust this seller imo, bought from him before guys.


Funny - this seller has 44 listings, *each and every one* is described as "Unique: ..... "


----------



## TK16

Zachik said:


> Funny - this seller has 44 listings, *each and every one* is described as "Unique: ..... "


He also includes a crazy scientist pic in all his listing, may be a surgeon 😃


----------



## LCMusicLover

dstarr3 said:


> I'm sorry, I'm still very tube-stupid. Would this be a good example of Brimar CV2492s to buy?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/313432138491


I haven't tried any which look like that.  Both sets I purchased were these:


Guidostrunk said:


> These are the ones I'd get.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Unique-2-x...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0


The KB/AD is some '_secret_' code which IIRC identifies which factory and what build date.  Both sets I have are KB/AD.

BTW, most folks dismiss the whole 'cryo-treated' thing as snake oil, while a minority think it sprinkles the tubes with magic pixie dust  One of my pairs of 2492s is cryo-treated while the other isn't.  I can't hear any difference, although one of the claimed benefits is longer life, so who knows? 

@dstarr3 -- Lots of knowledge/expertise over on the LP tube rolling thread. Someone there might be able to tell you more about the tubes you posted:  

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/liquid-platinum-tube-rollers.898852/


----------



## Guidostrunk

LCMusicLover said:


> I haven't tried any which look like that.  Both sets I purchased were these:
> 
> The KB/AD is some '_secret_' code which IIRC identifies which factory and what build date.  Both sets I have are KB/AD.
> 
> ...


KB/AD = STC Rochester plant. 

I don't believe in the cryo crap either. Lol.

If you want the best out of the LP regarding tubes. Adapters with 12au7 variants is it.


----------



## dstarr3

Well, my ultimate goal is getting the maximum soundstage out of my K702. The CV2492s the first recommendation I received, so I just ran with it. If there are some other tubes that can be run with adapters that will get me even wider, more open soundstage than the CV2492s, I'd love to put those on my list, too.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Guidostrunk said:


> KB/AD = STC Rochester plant.
> 
> I don't believe in the cryo crap either. Lol.
> 
> If you want the best out of the LP regarding tubes. Adapters with 12au7 variants is it.


I've been running 12au7 family tubes in (one of) my LPs for a while now.  Really a lot of good options out there.  I've got some fly lead CV-4034s (and adapters for the fly leads) coming in a couple weeks.  Hoping for magic


----------



## dstarr3

I just noticed my tubes are glowing and warmed up. But... the amp is off?

The power button is in the off position, the volume is turned all the way down, there's no headphones connected, and the DAC that I have the amp connected to is currently powered off, as well.

And yet the tubes are still warm? I'd swear the tubes cooled down when the amp was off. Am I mistaken or is something wrong?


----------



## LCMusicLover

dstarr3 said:


> I just noticed my tubes are glowing and warmed up. But... the amp is off?
> 
> The power button is in the off position, the volume is turned all the way down, there's no headphones connected, and the DAC that I have the amp connected to is currently powered off, as well.
> 
> And yet the tubes are still warm? I'd swear the tubes cooled down when the amp was off. Am I mistaken or is something wrong?


Doesn't sound right to me.  When I want to swap tubes, I turn the amp off and wait a while, then the tubes are cold -- well, cool at least as I'm not the most patient guy.


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
I keep hearing how well the unit works with planar headphones.
And unfortunately it is only available on Monoprice.
I saw it on Audiophonics for 1200€ which would be too expensive for me.

Is there any other shop in Europe or is it only available in America?
If so, how do the Europeans do it with the power connection?
I assume that it is designed for 115 volts and not 230 volts.
Do I need a different power supply?

I have read controversies between the original power supply and the Psu.
The original is supposed to be better.


----------



## dstarr3

LCMusicLover said:


> Doesn't sound right to me.  When I want to swap tubes, I turn the amp off and wait a while, then the tubes are cold -- well, cool at least as I'm not the most patient guy.



Yeah, I just physically unplugged the power cable and the tubes cooled down enough to stop glowing in 5'ish seconds. Sooooo something is up.


----------



## Slade01 (Sep 9, 2021)

dstarr3 said:


> Yeah, I just physically unplugged the power cable and the tubes cooled down enough to stop glowing in 5'ish seconds. Sooooo something is up.



When your tubes are glowing are the filaments lit up, or are the plates actually glowing orange (or both)?

Also there was another post on this thread about a user who received a defective unit - that the LP was just "on" if plugged in, regardless of the on/off button position.  So maybe the switch in your unit is defective somehow.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> I keep hearing how well the unit works with planar headphones.
> And unfortunately it is only available on Monoprice.
> I saw it on Audiophonics for 1200€ which would be too expensive for me.
> ...


IIRC the stock power supply is universal (110 -240) and all you need do is change the power cord to match your outlet.

I can't help with the 'availability in Europe' question, sorry.


----------



## Deleeh

LCMusicLover said:


> IIRC the stock power supply is universal (110 -240) and all you need do is change the power cord to match your outlet.
> 
> I can't help with the 'availability in Europe' question, sorry.


Great thanks for your answer 👍
I will keep an eye on the good part.
I'll probably have to order it on Monoprice and import it.


----------



## dstarr3

Slade01 said:


> When your tubes are glowing are the filaments lit up, or are the plates actually glowing orange (or both)?
> 
> Also there was another post on this thread about a user who received a defective unit - that the LP was just "on" if plugged in, regardless of the on/off button position.  So maybe the switch in your unit is defective somehow.


----------



## dstarr3

This definitely very recently started, because in all my previous listening sessions I remember needing to hit the power button and wait for the 30-second warmup process before it was usable. Now it just starts the warmup as soon as it's plugged in, regardless of the switch state.


----------



## LCMusicLover

dstarr3 said:


> This definitely very recently started, because in all my previous listening sessions I remember needing to hit the power button and wait for the 30-second warmup process before it was usable. Now it just starts the warmup as soon as it's plugged in, regardless of the switch state.


This doesn't totally surprise me.  Waaaayyyyy back in this thread there was a lot of back-and-forth about swapping the stock power supply for an LPS.  In the middle of that, there's a post or two from @runeight about how the stock power supply controls the amp during start-up. Seems like a complex start-up sequence and I _*guess *_that's the source of the failure.


----------



## dstarr3

LCMusicLover said:


> This doesn't totally surprise me.  Waaaayyyyy back in this thread there was a lot of back-and-forth about swapping the stock power supply for an LPS.  In the middle of that, there's a post or two from @runeight about how the stock power supply controls the amp during start-up. Seems like a complex start-up sequence and I _*guess *_that's the source of the failure.


Bummer. I hope this hardware failure doesn't manifest in other ways. I guess I'll just leave it unplugged when not in use, but that's still not great that it's not working as intended anymore. I'd love to hear about other people's experiences with this issue and if I can expect other issues down the road.


----------



## Slade01

dstarr3 said:


> Bummer. I hope this hardware failure doesn't manifest in other ways. I guess I'll just leave it unplugged when not in use, but that's still not great that it's not working as intended anymore. I'd love to hear about other people's experiences with this issue and if I can expect other issues down the road.



I think if you bought it direct from monoprice and its under warranty - you should get a replacement.  That's probably the safest route.


----------



## dstarr3

Slade01 said:


> I think if you bought it direct from monoprice and its under warranty - you should get a replacement.  That's probably the safest route.


Unfortunately I bought it second-hand. I have the original box and all the accessories and such, but... it's still second-hand.


----------



## ruinedx (Sep 9, 2021)

dstarr3 said:


> Bummer. I hope this hardware failure doesn't manifest in other ways. I guess I'll just leave it unplugged when not in use, but that's still not great that it's not working as intended anymore. I'd love to hear about other people's experiences with this issue and if I can expect other issues down the road.


This is damage that can occur when the power supply turn on sequence is bypassed in some way.  An example of how this might occur is if you had a power failure while the unit was switched on and then the power is restored while the unit is still switched on, use a power strip to turn the unit on and off instead of the button on the unit, or if you use a LPS with it.  It would be highly unlikely for this to occur in normal operation of just turning on and off via power button.


----------



## dstarr3

ruinedx said:


> This is damage that can occur when the power supply turn on sequence is bypassed in some way.  An example of how this might occur is if you had a power failure while the unit was switched on and then the power is turned back on while the unit is still switched on, use a power strip to turn the unit on and off instead of the button on the unit, or if you use a LPS with it.  It would be highly unlikely for this to occur in normal operation of just turning on and off via power button.


Would using something like this at the outlet be fine?


----------



## ruinedx (Sep 9, 2021)

dstarr3 said:


> Would using something like this at the outlet be fine?


No that is an example of something that will cause the damage described earlier if the switch is ever turned on and off while the unit's power switch is in the on position.

Its actually a design fault of this amp model IMO, the main power switch should not have been an on/off hard toggle but rather one of those "always on" soft switches like video game consoles have - as it could then default to "off" state whenever power is received; however, that would have cost more money to implement than what the unit has and goal was to make as affordable as possible.

If you mean, can you use one of these now that is already broken, yes you can but it will be more wear and tear on the tubes.


----------



## Slade01

ruinedx said:


> This is damage that can occur when the power supply turn on sequence is bypassed in some way.  An example of how this might occur is if you had a power failure while the unit was switched on and then the power is restored while the unit is still switched on, use a power strip to turn the unit on and off instead of the button on the unit, or if you use a LPS with it.  It would be highly unlikely for this to occur in normal operation of just turning on and off via power button.



So would the logical investigation be to replace the stock power supply first and see if that resolves the issue?


----------



## ruinedx

Slade01 said:


> So would the logical investigation be to replace the stock power supply first and see if that resolves the issue?


Nah, the circuit that is damaged is in the main unit. This has happened to several folks already via one of the avenues I described, its a known issue.  There is no easy fix, it needs repair.


----------



## dstarr3

Hmm. We did have a couple seconds of power outage sometime last week when a transformer blew in the neighborhood, but the amp wouldn't have been on at the time. I'm very good about turning it off when not in use; these tubes cost me a chunk of money that I don't want to waste by burning the tubes 24/7.


----------



## ruinedx (Sep 9, 2021)

dstarr3 said:


> Hmm. We did have a couple seconds of power outage sometime last week when a transformer blew in the neighborhood, but the amp wouldn't have been on at the time. I'm very good about turning it off when not in use; these tubes cost me a chunk of money that I don't want to waste by burning the tubes 24/7.


Yeah and the problem is if you use that switch you posted, it will totally bypass the tube warmup (this is the circuit now broken) and burn out the tubes faster.  The best solution is to get the unit repaired.  Maybe it is possible you had a power surge on return of power, which could have caused similar issue even with unit off.


----------



## dstarr3

ruinedx said:


> Yeah and the problem is if you use that switch you posted, it will totally bypass the tube warmup (this is the circuit now broken) and burn out the tubes faster.  The best solution is to get the unit repaired.  Maybe it is possible you had a power surge on return of power even if unit was off, which could have caused similar issue.


Well, I'm seeing that when I plug the amp back in, it starts the warmup process. Orange status light for 30 seconds or so before it goes white. It just does this regardless of whether or not the switch is in the On position.


----------



## ruinedx

dstarr3 said:


> Well, I'm seeing that when I plug the amp back in, it starts the warmup process. Orange status light for 30 seconds or so before it goes white.


If the warmup still seems to be working (i.e. the tubes dont just come on immediately) then you can probably use one of those switches you linked above.  The repair cost will probably be half of what you paid for the unit used, so if it seems to be warming up OK then this is probably a reasonable solution.


----------



## Ham Sandwich

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> I keep hearing how well the unit works with planar headphones.
> And unfortunately it is only available on Monoprice.
> I saw it on Audiophonics for 1200€ which would be too expensive for me.
> ...



The Liquid Platinum (and also the Liquid Gold X) use a switching mode power supply that automatically handles 100-240V and 50/60 Hz. Like a laptop power supply. The power supply also has a removable standard mains cable. So you can buy a power cord that has the right style of plug for your wall outlet. 

The amps are designed for use with the power supply that comes with the amp. Aftermarket power supplies can damage the amp. Especially linear power supplies. So stick with the stock power supply.


----------



## dstarr3

ruinedx said:


> If the warmup still seems to be working (i.e. the tubes dont just come on immediately) then you can probably use one of those switches you linked above.  The repair cost will probably be half of what you paid for the unit used, so if it seems to be warming up OK then this is probably a reasonable solution.


How long should it take during the warmup process before the tubes themselves start actually warming up?


----------



## dstarr3

I was able to get back in touch with the person that sold me the LP and he's helping me get it RMA'd, so that's great. 

I have some socket savers installed that I'll need to remove before sending my amp in. Does anyone have any advice on how to remove them without damaging either the savers or the amp?

Thanks!


----------



## dBel84

@dstarr3  if you cannot get it rma'd your plan to use the wall switch will be fine. What's happened, for whatever reason, is the mosfet switch which sits in standby has shorted leaving the amp on all the time. You will neither do the amp, nor the tubes any harm with your work around. A little inconvenient but totally functional.
.. dB


----------



## deuter

It’s been a while all, any news crazy tubes we’re using now?
I wouldn’t mind getting the 300b warmth especially with electric guitars without sacrificing the tight bass.


----------



## deuter

Anyone here using the Liquid Platinum with the Abyss AB-1266


----------



## Mofomamy

Sale alert! It's currently listed for $599.


----------



## Shane D

Mofomamy said:


> Sale alert! It's currently listed for $599.


That's what I paid last year. Worth every penny!


----------



## Marlowe

Shane D said:


> That's what I paid last year. Worth every penny!


I did even better. I got it for $499 in May 2020 ($549 and a $50 dollar click-on discount).


----------



## chaz_flhr

Just tried my DX300 with the amp 12 balanced dedicated line out with my cap modded LP with 58 Amperex BB with my Arya, it was sublime this amp never sounded this good with the node 2i or the m11 pro might use this for a while until I can grab a Musician Pegasus R2R DAC which is next on my buy list.


----------



## EevelutionZ

Anyone using this amp to drive the Susvara? I'm currently using this to drive my Arya and love the sound, but I planned on getting the Susvara soon and worry about not having enough power for it


----------



## sahmen

EevelutionZ said:


> Anyone using this amp to drive the Susvara? I'm currently using this to drive my Arya and love the sound, but I planned on getting the Susvara soon and worry about not having enough power for it


It can drive the Susvara passably well, but not optimally, which is something I could say about several other amps in the LP's price ball park. I wouldn't count it among the very top-tier Susvara driving amps, but It could be useful as a temporary solution for the Susvara, as you look for a better performing alternative, which means, it can buy you some precious time if you need it.

In the end, it will also depend on how close you would like to get to the Susvara's optimal performance level.


----------



## Shane D

EevelutionZ said:


> Anyone using this amp to drive the Susvara? I'm currently using this to drive my Arya and love the sound, but I planned on getting the Susvara soon and worry about not having enough power for it


I don't think it would do them right. My LP can get my HE6se V2's good and loud, but not make them really sing. I added a Schiit Loki which gave them some additional gain and some bass.

I might have been happy there but I actually another amp that drives them beautifully.


----------



## kenk

Shane D said:


> I don't think it would do them right. My LP can get my HE6se V2's good and loud, but not make them really sing. I added a Schiit Loki which gave them some additional gain and some bass.
> 
> I might have been happy there but I actually another amp that drives them beautifull


----------



## Alenotta

I just recently replaced the capacitors on the LP and WOW it is a different amp. You can find details about doing it earlier in the forum and @ksorota actually was doing mods for people. They graciously gave me some tips via PM on cap options. If you can send yours off to get the mod done, or if you have a soldering iron and are feeling brave, don't hesitate to try it. I employed the help of my father who was visiting and is an excellent solderer and tinkerer. The sound is much more dynamic and detailed once you swap the caps. And the low end really expanded for my Ether 2s. I'm currently going Tidal - SMSL m400 - Liquid Platinum - Ether 2. Great combo now. I see a lot of these recent posts have been about EQ and I can tell you the capacitor mod makes things feel so much more dynamic and confident. And if you're looking for more richness in the low end and punch this will do it. If people are interested I can post pics of what things looked like inside / our experience getting the caps out and replaced.


----------



## MLegend

> And if you're looking for more richness in the low end and punch this will do it.


What caps did you use? What DAC are you using?


----------



## Alenotta

Somewhere on the forum there is a pretty good breakdown. I used the suggested Elna Silmic II.

You replace these:

3- 470uf by 63v

2 - 10uf by 25v

1 - 100uf by 25v 

For the smaller one by the XLR (100uf by 25v) I used a nichicon finegold at that voltage. That was @ksorota’s suggestion for keeping more bass impact. I actually didn’t have that correct voltage when I first modded it so I put it back together with just elna ones swapped and left the OG 100uf 25v. That sounded pretty great too. 

Not sure if @ksorota is still doing the mods, but if he is I think his price was great. He was super helpful and nice. My dad and I just wanted a fun headphone project to tinker with together. It was easy to open and get the board out, but the solder was super fast drying. We ended up heating the solder and slowly pulling the old caps out. Then doing the same process and pushing the new ones in to the heated solder. After they were in place we added a touch of new solder on top. 

Here is a pic of where they sit on the board. There is one capacitor you don’t need to change in the middle because it is already good quality.


----------



## Alenotta (Nov 14, 2021)

Oh and sorry the DAC I’m using is the SMSL m400. I like it a lot. I was going back and forth between that and the ares ii, but I wanted MQA and more connectivity for my use case. Very satisfied with it. Not harsh or clinical in the treble region. Very complimentary and smooth.

Tubes I’m using are the 6922 Genalex Gold Lion. I swapped several different tubes and kept coming back to those for their smooth, rich presentation without sacrificing detail or dimension.

One thing to note about the solder. We didn’t have a desoldering braid on hand. That would probably have been less tedious than the pushing and pulling option, but as long as you don’t overheat components you’re fine. We had a solder sucker but couldn’t get a good vacuum seal on the plastic-coated board in time. This solder dries FAST. You blink and it is solid again.


----------



## shafat777

Keiths Cap Mod changed my LP into a giant killer tube amp. The new caps added so much more details on the top end and layers on the low end. The soundstage widened a bit too. Its a totally different amp now.

I recently switched to Schiit MJ2 and dont really use my LP anymore, however I do miss it. I have a classified listing of my Cap Modded LP if anyone is interested.


----------



## Michael V

Just got a liquid platinum on amazon used for $420! Came in the same day as my used LCD-3 that I just got for a steal as well. I am running this amp off a bifrost multibit(I purchased a bifrost 2 for balanced input to the amp but I am waiting for it to come in the mail.) What is the difference between the rca inputs on the back, one with the line and one with the circle? I'll only be using the rca input until my bifrost 2 comes in the mail. But I was just curious. The manual and website don't state anything about the circle or line rca inputs. Thanks


----------



## Alenotta

Michael V said:


> Just got a liquid platinum on amazon used for $420! Came in the same day as my used LCD-3 that I just got for a steal as well. I am running this amp off a bifrost multibit(I purchased a bifrost 2 for balanced input to the amp but I am waiting for it to come in the mail.) What is the difference between the rca inputs on the back, one with the line and one with the circle? I'll only be using the rca input until my bifrost 2 comes in the mail. But I was just curious. The manual and website don't state anything about the circle or line rca inputs. Thanks


Go to page 186 of this thread. It is a pass through output. It only works if you’re using the RCAs. So you can pass the signal through to something else, but not as a pre-amp. It isn’t doing anything to it. I’ve never messed with it.


----------



## MikeW (Nov 19, 2021)

Yeah, I did the cap mod on mine, quite some time ago. Probably been a year or so. I thought it improved the dynamics, bass and clarity. Pretty much across the board. Night and day? eh perhaps not, but definitely noticeable. And a very cheap and easy mod. I enjoyed it before, and I enjoy it more now. I used a different, recomended cap, for the smaller front one, but silmic's for the larger caps. Can't remember what cap I used up front, but it was the newer recommendation at the time.... think it was a MUSE FG cap. Muse and Silmic's are "expensive" caps when your making thousands of units. Im sure the designer did the best he could with the budget constraints. These replacement caps are simply, technically "better". They have better ESR characteristics, and measure better. How much of that translates to sonic quality is up for debate. But the mod is very "cheap" and pretty easy... 5$ "More" per unit, for caps that are esoteric, can add up to tens or hundreds of thousands of $$$ in manufacturing cost when multiplied by tens of thousands of units.


----------



## Alenotta

MikeW said:


> Yeah, I did the cap mod on mine, quite some time ago. Probably been a year or so. I thought it improved the dynamics, bass and clarity. Pretty much across the board. Night and day? eh perhaps not, but definitely noticeable. And a very cheap and easy mod. I enjoyed it before, and I enjoy it more now. I used a different, recomended cap, for the smaller front one, but silmic's for the larger caps. Can't remember what cap I used up front, but it was the newer recommendation at the time.... think it was a MUSE FG cap. Muse and Silmic's are "expensive" caps when your making thousands of units. Im sure the designer did the best he could with the budget constraints. These replacement caps are simply, technically "better". They have better ESR characteristics, and measure better. How much of that translates to sonic quality is up for debate. But the mod is very "cheap" and pretty easy... 5$ "More" per unit, for caps that are esoteric, can add up to tens or hundreds of thousands of $$$ in manufacturing cost when multiplied by tens of thousands of units.


I heard a pretty big difference on the Ether 2s, but they are sensitive to changes.


----------



## Ham Sandwich

Michael V said:


> Just got a liquid platinum on amazon used for $420! Came in the same day as my used LCD-3 that I just got for a steal as well. I am running this amp off a bifrost multibit(I purchased a bifrost 2 for balanced input to the amp but I am waiting for it to come in the mail.) What is the difference between the rca inputs on the back, one with the line and one with the circle? I'll only be using the rca input until my bifrost 2 comes in the mail. But I was just curious. The manual and website don't state anything about the circle or line rca inputs. Thanks



Awesome! You're doing well. Now just make sure you get a balanced headphone cable for the LCD-3. The Liquid Platinum is a balanced amp that was designed and optimized around a balanced circuit and output. So you need to use the balanced headphone output to get the most out of the amp and get the sound that it was designed for. Pretend that the 1/4" headphone jack on the amp doesn't even exist.


----------



## Michael V

Ham Sandwich said:


> Awesome! You're doing well. Now just make sure you get a balanced headphone cable for the LCD-3. The Liquid Platinum is a balanced amp that was designed and optimized around a balanced circuit and output. So you need to use the balanced headphone output to get the most out of the amp and get the sound that it was designed for. Pretend that the 1/4" headphone jack on the amp doesn't even exist.


Thanks for the reply! Yup that was the first thing I did as soon as I ordered the amp and headphones. I didn't even bother trying the stock cable haha. Thinking of doing cap mod but don't even know that I need to because I love the way the amp sounds right now. I did a cap mod on my little dot1+. Still waiting for my golden lion tubes to come in as well.


----------



## Alenotta

Michael V said:


> Thanks for the reply! Yup that was the first thing I did as soon as I ordered the amp and headphones. I didn't even bother trying the stock cable haha. Thinking of doing cap mod but don't even know that I need to because I love the way the amp sounds right now. I did a cap mod on my little dot1+. Still waiting for my golden lion tubes to come in as well.


It sounds great without the mod too. I really like those tubes. That is what I settled on after trying a bunch.


----------



## SlothRock (Nov 23, 2021)

Hey folks! I just ended up buying the LP at the current sale price because I was able to cop a B stock Verite Closed from ZMF over the weekend. Gonna be pairing this amp with a Bifrost 2 DAC which is gonna be a huge upgrade from my current magni/modi stack.

Reading in this thread, have the later units of the LP addressed the whole power issue I’m reading about now in regards to a power outage when the unit is turned on? If not, is the solve if I ever have an outage when the unit is on just to turn the unit off, turn off the power supply once power is back up and then the unit will “reset” to normal operation? I doubt I’d run into this situation often of course but always a bit worrisome to read about have dropping the cash on it of course


----------



## Alenotta

SlothRock said:


> Hey folks! I just ended up buying the LP at the current sale price because I was able to cop a B stock Verite Closed from ZMF over the weekend. Gonna be pairing this amp with a Bifrost 2 DAC which is gonna be a huge upgrade from my current magni/modi stack.
> 
> Reading in this thread, have the later units of the LP addressed the whole power issue I’m reading about now in regards to a power outage when the unit is turned on? If not, is the solve if I ever have an outage when the unit is on just to turn the unit off, turn off the power supply once power is back up and then the unit will “reset” to normal operation? I doubt I’d run into this situation often of course but always a bit worrisome to read about have dropping the cash on it of course


I also just got a b-stock Verité closed haha. You could put it on a battery backup if you're worried. I usually turn mine off when I'm not sitting next to it because the tubes run hot.


----------



## Ham Sandwich

SlothRock said:


> Hey folks! I just ended up buying the LP at the current sale price because I was able to cop a B stock Verite Closed from ZMF over the weekend. Gonna be pairing this amp with a Bifrost 2 DAC which is gonna be a huge upgrade from my current magni/modi stack.
> 
> Reading in this thread, have the later units of the LP addressed the whole power issue I’m reading about now in regards to a power outage when the unit is turned on? If not, is the solve if I ever have an outage when the unit is on just to turn the unit off, turn off the power supply once power is back up and then the unit will “reset” to normal operation? I doubt I’d run into this situation often of course but always a bit worrisome to read about have dropping the cash on it of course



Awesome! I can tell you that the Cavalli amps pair very well with the Schiit multibit DACs. It's a magical synergy combination. 

The issue that the Liquid Platinum and Liquid Gold X have with power outages and power glitches is something that I do keep in mind while using them. I don't use them during storms or times of possible power glitches. I live in an area with reliable power and few storms or thunderstorms. But even with reliable power there are times the power glitches or goes out briefly unexpectedly. I just hope I'm not listening to my Liquid Platinum or Liquid Gold X when that happens. There is other audio gear that can also get damaged by a power glitch while the gear is on. It's not just a Cavalli thing. I would prefer to have gear that isn't sensitive to that, but in the interest of sound quality I can compromise and learn to deal with the risk.

A main factor is that the power switch on the Platinum and Gold X is a button that pushes in and stays pushed in. If the power goes out and comes back on the button is still pushed in and the amp will try to turn on again as soon as it sees power. Even if that power is glitching due to the power outage. 

The big Cavalli Audio amps like the Liquid Fire, Crimson, Glass, or Lighting use a momentary contact piezo power button. You touch it briefly to turn it on and then touch it again briefly to turn it off. It's similar to how an on-screen button works on a mobile phone. There is no physical on or off position. If I'm listening to my Liquid Fire or Liquid Glass and the power goes out the amp will not try to turn back on when the power comes back on. Because the power button is never in a physical "on" position. But the Liquid Platinum and Liquid Gold X have a button with a physical "on" position that will power the amp back on as soon as it sees power after a power outage or power glitch.

I've had my Liquid Fire amp playing when the power went out and glitches briefly for a second or two then came back on. The amp turned off and stayed off. If I was listening to my Liquid Platinum or Liquid Gold X the amp would have tried to turn on immediately when it saw power again even though the power was glitching for a few additional seconds. That's not good for any audio gear. It's best if the gear turns itself off in that situation and doesn't try to turn itself back on until you physically hit the button again.

I've been considering getting a good sine wave UPS for my router and NAS and another for Platinum and Gold X and other power glitch sensitive gear in my audio system. But I haven't yet. I just haven't yet. They can be noisy due to transformer whine and cooling fans, and they cost about $200 each. I just haven't yet. But I had an unexpected power glitch/outage a week ago due to a car crashing into a power pole two miles away from me. I was listening to my Liquid Fire at the time. The amp turned off as if I hit the power switch and stayed off. The NAS and router all shut down. And I had a few choice words. But everything survived. No damaged gear or damaged data. But it did get me thinking again that I should buy a good sine wave UPS for the audio gear and another one for the router and NAS. My computers are all laptops and don't need a UPS.


----------



## SlothRock

^^ thank you so much for the detailed response! Really appreciate it. We do have reliable power where we live but have had a couple power outages over that time too. I would definitely turn the amp off if I wasn’t using it but if I did happen to have it on and listening and a power outage happened, what is the fix in that situation or the right order of operations to get it back to normal?


----------



## Michael V

Did the cap mod and I'm not sure how I like it tbh it's very harsh sounding and lifeless now. I feel like the amp doesn't sound tubey at all anymore and sounds straight solid state now. And it brought everything closer and more forward as before it was more laid back and relaxed and warm. Even my girlfriend who knows nothing about audio had a good few hours of listening on my setup and loved it before I did the cap mod and within the first 10 seconds she said "I don't like this at all, I liked it before." It still sounds good don't get me wrong but I feel like it sucked the life out of the amp but it does sound clearer but clearer isn't always better.

Also definitely would recommend a solder sucker for anyone wanting to do this mod. It would've saved me 4 hours. First three big caps were easy and the 3 little caps took hours because the holes were plugged with solder than I couldn't wick out.


----------



## Alenotta

Michael V said:


> Did the cap mod and I'm not sure how I like it tbh it's very harsh sounding and lifeless now. I feel like the amp doesn't sound tubey at all anymore and sounds straight solid state now. And it brought everything closer and more forward as before it was more laid back and relaxed and warm. Even my girlfriend who knows nothing about audio had a good few hours of listening on my setup and loved it before I did the cap mod and within the first 10 seconds she said "I don't like this at all, I liked it before." It still sounds good don't get me wrong but I feel like it sucked the life out of the amp but it does sound clearer but clearer isn't always better.
> 
> Also definitely would recommend a solder sucker for anyone wanting to do this mod. It would've saved me 4 hours. First three big caps were easy and the 3 little caps took hours because the holes were plugged with solder than I couldn't wick out.


Which tubes are you using? I still feel the warmth from the gold lions on mine but it feels much more dynamic after the mod. I do agree this amp in general leans more solid state. You may want to try swapping that front cap by the XLR. When I didn’t have the right size cap for it I used the original one and that was a way more lively sound. I liked it. I wish caps were faster to swap out. We had a solder sucker on hand and I can tell you it didn’t work either lol. That solder just dries so fast.


----------



## Michael V

Alenotta said:


> Which tubes are you using? I still feel the warmth from the gold lions on mine but it feels much more dynamic after the mod. I do agree this amp in general leans more solid state. You may want to try swapping that front cap by the XLR. When I didn’t have the right size cap for it I used the original one and that was a way more lively sound. I liked it. I wish caps were faster to swap out. We had a solder sucker on hand and I can tell you it didn’t work either lol. That solder just dries so fast.


I'm using the gold lions as well. Do the caps just need time to burn in? I really enjoyed the sound of my setup and agreed it was my end game until I did the cap mod. Actually I tried listening to it when I did the first 5 caps and didn't do the one by the XLR, then I listened to it again after I did the one by the XLR and didn't really hear a difference.


----------



## Alenotta

Michael V said:


> I'm using the gold lions as well. Do the caps just need time to burn in? I really enjoyed the sound of my setup and agreed it was my end game until I did the cap mod. Actually I tried listening to it when I did the first 5 caps and didn't do the one by the XLR, then I listened to it again after I did the one by the XLR and didn't really hear a difference.


I saw some people say they noticed a difference after burn in. Quite possible but I don’t know enough about it. It doesn’t sound like something is off right? Like all your joints are pretty solid and all that? We are also I’m sure having different experiences based on our headphones. The Ether I’m using is already sort of warmish and so is my SMSL m400 DAC. Everything is on the warm side of neutral for me atm. I also am sensitive to harshness in the upper regions.


----------



## chaz_flhr

Michael V said:


> I'm using the gold lions as well. Do the caps just need time to burn in? I really enjoyed the sound of my setup and agreed it was my end game until I did the cap mod. Actually I tried listening to it when I did the first 5 caps and didn't do the one by the XLR, then I listened to it again after I did the one by the XLR and didn't really hear a difference.


Caps need burn in time, burn them in for at least 50 hrs then lis again.


----------



## Michael V

chaz_flhr said:


> Caps need burn in time, burn them in for at least 50 hrs then lis again.





Alenotta said:


> I saw some people say they noticed a difference after burn in. Quite possible but I don’t know enough about it. It doesn’t sound like something is off right? Like all your joints are pretty solid and all that? We are also I’m sure having different experiences based on our headphones. The Ether I’m using is already sort of warmish and so is my SMSL m400 DAC. Everything is on the warm side of neutral for me atm. I also am sensitive to harshness in the upper regions.



Yea joints are solid. I definitely didn't get as much solder on the joint with the smaller caps but I can go back and do that if necessary. Also it is definitely starting to sound better now as its been burning in but I've only been able to get maybe 5 hours of burn in on it so far.


----------



## Morpheas (Dec 1, 2021)

Just picked up a Liquid Platinum and pairing it with my T60RP Argons, 6xx, and Audioquest Nighthawk Carbons.

Unfortunately I'm still waiting for my Geshelli JNOG2 to run it balanced, and so for now its just running in single ended with my Modi 3 until then.

I did have my drop audio and seemingly reboot mid-use, which is a bit alarming. I've cleared space around it just in case it was a heat related issue. It does seem to run pretty damn warm.


----------



## Shane D (Dec 1, 2021)

Morpheas said:


> Just picked up a Liquid Platinum and pairing it with my T60RP Argons, 6xx, and Audioquest Nighthawk Carbons.
> 
> Unfortunately I'm still waiting for my Geshelli JNOG2 to run it balanced, and so for now its just running in single ended with my Modi 3 until then.
> 
> I did have my drop audio and seemingly reboot mid-use, which is a bit alarming. I've cleared space around it just in case it was a heat related issue. It does seem to run pretty damn warm.


But you are using balanced out to your headphones right? The LP doesn't care what the input is, but only that the output is XLR to the headphones.


----------



## Morpheas

Shane D said:


> But you are using balanced out to your headphones right? The LP doesn't care what the input is, but only that the output is XLR to the headphones.


Still waiting on the XLR Interconnect from Hart Audio. until then I just have 1/4" adapter.


----------



## Shane D

Morpheas said:


> Still waiting on the XLR Interconnect from Hart Audio. until then I just have 1/4" adapter.


Been there, done that.
 
You will notice an improvement with the interconnect.


----------



## Ham Sandwich

Morpheas said:


> Still waiting on the XLR Interconnect from Hart Audio. until then I just have 1/4" adapter.



There is a section in the manual about the protective circuit and general best practices. 

Those two sections will explain why the amp rebooted or went into protection mode while you were using the 1/4" TRS jack. If the TRS isn't plugged in all the way, or gets jiggled while the amp is on that can trip the protection circuit. Also plugging in or unplugging the 1/4" TRS jack while the amp is on can also trip the protection circuit.

This amp (and the Liquid Gold X) are a bit different than most other amps in the best practices for plugging in and unplugging headphones. With these amps the best practice is to plug the headphones in while the amp is off. Then turn on the amp with the volume turned all the way down. Then turn the amp off before unplugging the headphones. Especially when using the 1/4" TRS headphone jack.

Technically you should follow the same process with the 4-pin XLR headphone jack. But not really as necessary. The 4 pins all connect at the same time. Very very difficult to cause the type of short that would trip the protection circuit. I hotplug the 4-pin XLR jack while the amp is on and have never tripped the protection circuit. Just turn down the volume to zero and plug the headphones straight in using a continuous motion. Another reason why the 4-pin XLR jack is the superior headphone connection.


----------



## Morpheas

Appreciate the clarification Ham! and yes, Shane, definitely notice a difference.

Still excited to ditch the Modi 3, even though it might not make a huge difference. I'll be able to do very easy side by sides between the Magni 2 and Liquid Platinum then.


----------



## detoxguy

First post in years but I am waiting for delivery of my LP (hopefully Monday) to pair with my LCD2C. First upgrades in a while, been loving my Lyr 3 and HF-500 and hoping these compliment each other well.


----------



## detoxguy

detoxguy said:


> First post in years but I am waiting for delivery of my LP (hopefully Monday) to pair with my LCD2C. First upgrades in a while, been loving my Lyr 3 and HF-500 and hoping these compliment each other well.


It was not Monday…


----------



## chaz_flhr

detoxguy said:


> It was not Monday…


It’s a great amp at it’s price point.


----------



## jonathan c

detoxguy said:


> First post in years but I am waiting for delivery of my LP (hopefully Monday) to pair with my LCD2C. First upgrades in a while, been loving my Lyr 3 and HF-500 and hoping these compliment each other well.


Do you view the LP as an upgrade to the Lyr 3? I see (and own) the two as rather different: eg,  6922 vs 6SN7. Separate tube rolling possibilities…


----------



## detoxguy

jonathan c said:


> Do you view the LP as an upgrade to the Lyr 3? I see (and own) the two as rather different: eg,  6922 vs 6SN7. Separate tube rolling possibilities…


I’m hoping they compliment each other, really wanted a balanced amp and looking forward to hearing it if it ever gets here. Just got a ‘delayed’ update from Canada Post. Patience is a virtue, just not one of mine.


----------



## detoxguy

Finally got them in and gave them a quick listen just to determine I had everything set up properly (wasn’t sure I could have both the xlr and rca outputs on oppo connected at same time) and even then with stock tubes and no burn in I could tell I’m going to love this amp.


----------



## cobrabucket (Dec 21, 2021)

Hey folks. Quick question, and no worries if there are no takers: Would anyone here be able to help a fellow head-fi member out with an enormous favor? I am a complete noob with DIY electronics, but love my Liquid Platinum so... I am enamoured with the thought of modding the MLP with upgraded capacitors [and whatever else is recommended] to take it to the next level with added clarity and dynamics, etc. Even though funds are tight [like it is for everyone nearly everyone], I obviously would be willing to compensate for parts and labor, obviously. 
I also have some extra headphone and/or IEM stuff that could be added if interested.
I thought about posting a listing in the classifieds, but figured this would be a better starting spot to ask.
My TRADER FEEDBACK.
Anyways, please message me if you can help. Thank you for the consideration!
Happy Holidays!
PS, I know I really need to to get a starter soldering kit and begin practicing so I can do some mods myself, but feel that this project would be a fair amount ahead of what I'd be comfortable with for the foreseeable future.
Cheers!


----------



## HiFiRobot

cobrabucket said:


> Hey folks. Quick question, and no worries if there are no takers: Would anyone here be able to help a fellow head-fi member out with an enormous favor? I am a complete noob with DIY electronics, but love my Liquid Platinum so... I am enamoured with the thought of modding the MLP with upgraded capacitors [and whatever else is recommended] to take it to the next level with added clarity and dynamics, etc. Even though funds are tight [like it is for everyone nearly everyone], I obviously would be willing to compensate for parts and labor, obviously.
> I also have some extra headphone and/or IEM stuff that could be added if interested.
> Anyways, please message me if you can help. Thank you for the consideration!
> Happy Holidays!
> ...


Have you tried tuberolling already?


----------



## cobrabucket

Yes sir. I have Sylvania 6922/E88CC D getter Goldpins and think they are amazing!


----------



## Mansinthe86

What happened with the price for this amp? I see reviews mention 400-440 USD.. and sale prices for even less.

And now I see it in a few shops for 1199 euro?


----------



## Marlowe

Mansinthe86 said:


> What happened with the price for this amp? I see reviews mention 400-440 USD.. and sale prices for even less.
> 
> And now I see it in a few shops for 1199 euro?


The MSRP from Monoprice is $800 USD, but it is on sale a lot, often substantially (though apparently not at the moment). I bought it for $500 USD ($550 sale price and a further $50 click on saving, plus about $33 for NJ state sales tax) in May 2020. AFAIK, it is sold new only by Monoprice, at least in the US. I believe Monoprice ships to Europe, but assume shipping and customs raise the actual cost substantially.


----------



## Shane D

Mansinthe86 said:


> What happened with the price for this amp? I see reviews mention 400-440 USD.. and sale prices for even less.
> 
> And now I see it in a few shops for 1199 euro?


I bought it a year and a half ago when it first started going on sale. I jumped at $599.00, thinking I had the deal of the century. Then it went to $549.00 and then $499.00. I think that it even went under $400.00 for a minute.

I felt a little bad for not waiting, but I still think it is a great amp at $599.00US. When it first came out it was around $900.00US, which was too rich for me.

On their site they do have open boxes (that's how I bought my Liquid Spark).

And I bet there will be some Great deals next week.


----------



## Mansinthe86

Shane D said:


> I bought it a year and a half ago when it first started going on sale. I jumped at $599.00, thinking I had the deal of the century. Then it went to $549.00 and then $499.00. I think that it even went under $400.00 for a minute.
> 
> I felt a little bad for not waiting, but I still think it is a great amp at $599.00US. When it first came out it was around $900.00US, which was too rich for me.
> 
> ...


At 400-500 USD I would buy it. But at 600 USD and more I would just buy a second unit Singxer SA-1.

At 1200€! No chance


----------



## acohen001

Monolith just dropped the price for the Liquid Platinum to $165.00.  https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=33305


----------



## acohen001

Ironically,  I am waiting on a used Liquid Platinum to arrive.  I purchased last week off of Canuck Audiomart and I paid over $400 USD.  I just ordered another one to have in my family room.  The price cannot be beat.


----------



## Morpheas (Dec 27, 2021)

As someone who just bought one a month ago...ouch. Genuinely feels like I was ripped off here.

Going to reach out to them and see what can be done. The page says 60 day price guarantee and 45 return window...


----------



## Michael V

What a steal! I got mine used from Amazon for $469 a month ago. Thankfully amazons holiday return period is in effect so I’ll return that one and I just purchased the $165 one!!


----------



## Mansinthe86

But this will have a US PSU with 110v ?


----------



## Morpheas (Dec 27, 2021)

Might be dumb, but I ordered a second for $165 on the off chance it's not an intentional price change. They should still allow me to return my first one.

Are they discontinuing the Liquid Platinum? This is cheap enough that it's almost concerning.


----------



## cobrabucket

acohen001 said:


> Monolith just dropped the price for the Liquid Platinum to $165.00.  https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=33305


I just bought another one. For that price, prob should buy a few. Lol...


----------



## sahmen

I just snagged another one myself, my third LP.  I still have my original one, which i modded, but I sold the 2nd one I bought because it appeared to be redundant, since I did not know where or how to use it. Now here I am having purchased my third, completely on impulse, simply because I am feeling as if at this price, just sitting on the fence and not buying it would be like some "crime of the century".  I do not even know where or how I am going to use this extra LP, but I am enjoying every minute of this totally impulse buy,..  A great "Happy New Year" present to myself.

I am glad I visited this site this morning... lol.


----------



## sahmen

Mansinthe86 said:


> But this will have a US PSU with 110v ?


I think the PSU works with both US and international voltage requirements.


----------



## Morpheas

Now shows out of stock.


----------



## cobrabucket

And... It's gone.


----------



## Marlowe

And I thought $500 was a steal when I bought mine last year. I wonder if this was an error; that seems too low even it were discontinued and they were trying to clear out stock. FWIW, Monoprice does show it coming back into stock on 2/8, but Monoprice availability dates are best taken with several large shakers of salt.


----------



## jonathan c (Dec 27, 2021)

Marlowe said:


> And I thought $500 was a steal when I bought mine last year. I wonder if this was an error; that seems too low even it were discontinued and they were trying to clear out stock. FWIW, Monoprice does show it coming back into stock on 2/8, but Monoprice availability dates are best taken with several large shakers of salt.


At $165 sale price (likely an erroneous post: I bought an LP two years ago at $182.99, also erroneous), why should Monoprice replenish inventory of LP? I would not rule out discontinuation. [P.S. I would like an LP where the full range of the volume knob was useable, rather than just “10 o’clock”.]


----------



## Shane D

jonathan c said:


> At $165 sale price (likely an erroneous post: I bought an LP two years ago at $182.99, also erroneous), why should Monoprice replenish inventory of LP? I would not rule out discontinuation. [P.S. I would like an LP where the full range of the volume knob was useable, rather than just “10 o’clock”.]


The gain is SO high that my 32 Ohm headphones are barely usable with it. I am not a loud listener though.


----------



## kumar402

Shane D said:


> The gain is SO high that my 32 Ohm headphones are barely usable with it. I am not a loud listener though.


Ya needs a preamp for sure. I used Schiit Sys with it


----------



## jonathan c

While I am at it, how about an LP that is either SE only or XLR only? Dispense with the extraneous circuitry…just my $0.0212 (six percent annual inflation…)🤷🏻


----------



## Shane D

jonathan c said:


> While I am at it, how about an LP that is either SE only or XLR only? Dispense with the extraneous circuitry…just my $0.0212 (six percent annual inflation…)🤷🏻


Well, to be fair this unit was pretty much only meant for XLR output according to its designer. And the inputs are the same, whichever you use. The SE was just an add on that they felt it needed for retail.

I have always though a higher end amp needed both, but my Vio V220 is an amp I enjoy a lot. It has balanced inputs but only SE outputs.

And of course many high end tube amps are only SE out. Maybe balanced should just be saved for powerful amps that will drive power-hungry headphones?


----------



## jonathan c

Shane D said:


> And of course many high end tube amps are only SE out. Maybe balanced should just be saved for powerful amps that will drive power-hungry headphones?


I agree. I love the Linear Tube Audio MZ3 and Woo WA6SE - both are SE. And the ‘balanced’ should be fully balanced from input to output: not just have the XLR sockets.


----------



## Shane D

jonathan c said:


> I agree. I love the Linear Tube Audio MZ3 and Woo WA6SE - both are SE. And the ‘balanced’ should be fully balanced from input to output: not just have the XLR sockets.


You have some very nice tube amps that I would like to try. Maybe one day just have the iFi and a sweet tube amp. I think I "kinda" have that with the Vio V220, but I know it's different.


----------



## Morpheas

Price is back to $800 and still out of stock.


----------



## Tommy34

Wish I would've saw that sale a lot sooner. Definitely been wanting to buy one.


----------



## Deleeh

I don't know what you were thinking at Monoprice. I'm happy for those who were able to get hold of one.
Maybe there are also some who don't have so much money because of Corona and I would like to be happy for them.

At the end of the day we don't know whether these were originally defective devices that were repaired or simply brand new ones that were sold to clear out the stock.

I unfortunately looked too late when it was sold out.
It would have been a bargain even if I have enough amps, but it's not a big deal now, but it's nice to have.
Especially for Europe it would have been a great price.

Have fun with the new toy for those who bought one.


----------



## jonathan c

Deleeh said:


> Have fun with the new *toy *for those who bought one.


Could it be that the $165 LP is from Fisher-Price and not Monoprice…😳?


----------



## jonathan c (Dec 27, 2021)

Shane D said:


> You have some very nice tube amps that I would like to try. Maybe one day just have the iFi and a sweet tube amp. I think I "kinda" have that with the Vio V220, but I know it's different.


Thank you. An idea: Schiit Valhalla 2 as a preamplifier into V220…?🤷🏻


----------



## Odin412

kumar402 said:


> Ya needs a preamp for sure. I used Schiit Sys with it


+1 for Schiit SYS. Works great!


----------



## Morpheas

Odin412 said:


> +1 for Schiit SYS. Works great!


Forgive me for being dumb, but could you use that as a pre amp if your dac is using XLR to the LP?


----------



## Marlowe

Strangely enough, the LP is back to $799.99 on the Monoprice site and is now listed as in stock and shipping today.


----------



## kumar402

Morpheas said:


> Forgive me for being dumb, but could you use that as a pre amp if your dac is using XLR to the LP?


No, SYS is only for SE input. We have to buy balanced preamp for it like Schiit Freya S or Goldpoint to name a few


----------



## sahmen

Marlowe said:


> Strangely enough, the LP is back to $799.99 on the Monoprice site and is now listed as in stock and shipping today.


One more piece in this little puzzle :  The receipt of my order came with a shipping delay notification :





All a little weird, but they're at least not claiming that the $165 pricing was an error, or cancelling the LP transaction which is already showing in my bank account. So fingers crossed until I receive the shipping notification.


----------



## acohen001

Received notice of cancellation for error in pricing.  If it is too good to be true….


----------



## Michael V

They just canceled my order. I got that same delayed shipping notification yesterday too.


----------



## Odin412

kumar402 said:


> No, SYS is only for SE input. We have to buy balanced preamp for it like Schiit Freya S or Goldpoint to name a few


+1 to that. I've heard other folks say good things about Goldpoint, but they are unfortunately at a very different price point than the Schiit SYS.


----------



## Morpheas

Also cancelled here. Makes sense.


----------



## sahmen

Same here :


----------



## cobrabucket

They cancelled my order too. They lost me as a customer for life.


----------



## kumar402

Wow…I had my doubts when I placed an order. Good thing is I have LP so kind of relieved that I got money back. Money saved is money earned


----------



## bouscadie

I was also fooled, the Christmas period must be conducive to beliefs  Nevertheless the operation of the company seems to me not very serious, not to say dishonest. I also add that for payments from abroad exchange fees may be charged (Paypal) and must be refund


----------



## Michael V

I called them last night. The lady I spoke to agreed that it's not right that they cancelled our order. But the company was sent a statement saying that anyone who placed an order the for amp would have their order cancelled and that they could only give us a discount of $25 off the $800 price. When it regularly sells for half of that. We waited on hold for 5 minutes to speak to a manager and the lady said they would have the manager call us back. We did not want that knowing they wouldn't call us back. We insisted to stay on the line but the lady said she can't keep us on hold. And go figure they never called us back. I will be contacting them again today. I already returned my original LP to amazon and I am out of my cancelled order so they are going to fix this or else.

I am not a first time customer of monoprice but this is definitely my last time being their customer. I've purchased many expensive things from them before.


----------



## cobrabucket

/\ THIS.


----------



## cobrabucket (Dec 30, 2021)

Michael V said:


> I called them last night. The lady I spoke to agreed that it's not right that they cancelled our order. But the company was sent a statement saying that anyone who placed an order the for amp would have their order cancelled and that they could only give us a discount of $25 off the $800 price. When it regularly sells for half of that. We waited on hold for 5 minutes to speak to a manager and the lady said they would have the manager call us back. We did not want that knowing they wouldn't call us back. We insisted to stay on the line but the lady said she can't keep us on hold. And go figure they never called us back. I will be contacting them again today. I already returned my original LP to amazon and I am out of my cancelled order so they are going to fix this or else.
> 
> I am not a first time customer of monoprice but this is definitely my last time being their customer. I've purchased many expensive things from them before.


Keep us posted if they actually fulfill the order. I have no hope in Monoprice anymore and am genuinely offended by the attitude I encountered when I called customer service 2 days ago. I told them that if they couldn't take care of me that they would be losing me as a customer for life and that I would obviously have to tell you guys here about my experience.
[This just in...It was awful].
They didn't even offer a discount, coupon, or anything else!
She spoke with her manager, but when she came back, Monoprice essentially told me to go kick rocks. So, yeah- I'm never spending another dime with them!
I am stubborn af about things like this and will go out of my way to avoid having to buy their products for the rest of my life.

SMH, Monoprice!


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
I understand the displeasure and many were happy to get a bargain.
Honestly, even $400 would still be a bargain.
In Europe you could buy it, but it costs 1200€ or 1150$ at the online dealer.
That's cheeky.
Monoprice had to cancel the order due to a system error.
If they hadn't noticed it, it would have been good for everyone who ordered and Monoprice would have made a loss.
You have to/should also understand that.
Apart from that, a large part of the order would have ended up on Ebay because some people couldn't get enough.
Seen in this light, the decision is understandable.
And whoever calls and can still take something because of the complaint is better than nothing.
In the end, it's also the case that nothing is given as a gift, why should Monoprice give the amplifier as a gift if it has more value and was caused by a system error?
No one can say they like to give something away.
It is rather the opposite.

So maybe you should be a little lenient towards companies that don't necessarily have bad products.
And offer the good ones for $400 every now and then.

For me as a European, that's a bargain, also because of the customs clearance that comes afterwards, which is not exactly low.


----------



## omniweltall

I have never been a fan of monoprice, but I can understand the cancellation too. It was a mistake.


----------



## bouscadie

when it is a mistake (if it is, it is a big mistake and for the moment unexplained) it is good to assume even if it means losing some money, it must not be millions $ and respect for customers is an asset for the future of the company. I had exchange fees and requested that they be refunded to me, it seemed to me to be the minimum, I am in no way responsible for their management. It was refused on the grounds that technically they could not? There comes a time when you have to stop making fun of the world even with the best polite expressions. If my name was Mr Cavalli and made beautiful machines I would ask a few questions about the association of my name with this company.


----------



## jonathan c

This has happened before; that time, my purchase price was honoured (albeit not as low as $165). Principle is principal…


----------



## greenkiwi

As a compromise, they could at least offer it to people at the best non-error sale price. Rather than $25 off of $800.


----------



## Shane D

jonathan c said:


> This has happened before; that time, my purchase price was honoured (albeit not as low as $165). Principle is principal…


My guess is their manufacturing cost is likely between $200.00 and $250.00, per unit. When I first saw the sale, I thought to myself, "that has to be below cost!"

I am not surprised that they cancelled at all. I think these amps are a screaming deal at $499.00 to $599.00.


----------



## cobrabucket

I'm done venting about this for now, but last thing I will say is that it seems very short sighted to create bad will with an entire community that would have spent many, many thousands of more dollars had they not been rude about it. Oh well. Plenty of other manufacturers.


----------



## Michael V

So I spoke to a manager, Wally, yesterday and basically after 20 minutes of repeating myself he said there is nothing they can do even though they cancelled the order 27 hours after I placed it. He kept saying "the company was closed on monday that's why no one picked it up or processed it until tuesday." And that was his excuse as to why he justified the orders being canceled, because someone physically changed the price and no one was there to fix it until the next day. They should seriously honor that. As I stated to him that everyone on this forum will probably never buy from them again, which is basically anyone that would be buying any of their headphone products.

Wally then stated he would give me a $100 credit, towards the amp or towards any purchase worth $150 or more. While I still am very disappointed that this was the only resolution he could come to. I am going to take advantage any buy something I don't need from the website and then never shop from monoprice again. Happy to know that the headphone amp I own is Cavalli's product and doesn't really have any monoprice branding on it.

TLDR; Monoprice doesn't honor prices on their website and have lost many a customer.


----------



## detoxguy

While it is indeed a bummer that you didn’t get to take advantage of a mistake and get what was obviously a ‘too good to be true deal’ the response some of you have is very childish.

I bought this amp because of the sound, the fact that Alex Cavalli designed it and that it’s a great deal at full price. Would I have jumped at the mistaken price? Hell yes. Would I act like an entitled teenager when it was corrected? No. 

This thing goes on sale pretty regularly, and it is sounding incredible to me so far (breaking in new gold lions as I type). If a screaming bargain is your main concern may I suggest Walmart?


----------



## Shane D

Michael V said:


> So I spoke to a manager, Wally, yesterday and basically after 20 minutes of repeating myself he said there is nothing they can do even though they cancelled the order 27 hours after I placed it. He kept saying "the company was closed on monday that's why no one picked it up or processed it until tuesday." And that was his excuse as to why he justified the orders being canceled, because someone physically changed the price and no one was there to fix it until the next day. They should seriously honor that. As I stated to him that everyone on this forum will probably never buy from them again, which is basically anyone that would be buying any of their headphone products.
> 
> Wally then stated he would give me a $100 credit, towards the amp or towards any purchase worth $150 or more. While I still am very disappointed that this was the only resolution he could come to. I am going to take advantage any buy something I don't need from the website and then never shop from monoprice again. Happy to know that the headphone amp I own is Cavalli's product and doesn't really have any monoprice branding on it.
> 
> TLDR; Monoprice doesn't honor prices on their website and have lost many a customer.


Nobody from this forum will buy their products anymore?
A little presumptuous aren't you?
The price was too good to be true and as it turns out, it wasn't true. You really have to calm down and you do Not speak for the majority of us.


----------



## Odin412

detoxguy said:


> While it is indeed a bummer that you didn’t get to take advantage of a mistake and get what was obviously a ‘too good to be true deal’ the response some of you have is very childish.
> 
> I bought this amp because of the sound, the fact that Alex Cavalli designed it and that it’s a great deal at full price. Would I have jumped at the mistaken price? Hell yes. Would I act like an entitled teenager when it was corrected? No.
> 
> This thing goes on sale pretty regularly, and it is sounding incredible to me so far (breaking in new gold lions as I type). If a screaming bargain is your main concern may I suggest Walmart?


Same here - great sound, designed by the great Alex Cavalli and a reasonable price were my reasons for buying it, and I have enjoyed it very much since then.


----------



## nwavesailor

Tough crowd!!!
 Yeah, I get it. Monoprice is an evil corporation bringing use a killer Cavalli amp for a reasonable cost, even at full price of $800.
Heck, we all like a deal, but giving product away is no way to stay in business long term.


----------



## Michael V

It’s just the price of doing business. They should honor their price. If you walk into a store and there’s a price on an item on a shelf and you bring it to the register, they have to honor that price. He even said if everyone came into work the next day and no one noticed it would’ve been processed and fulfilled like any other order. In fact according to others it looks like this isn’t the first time they set the price extremely low. I’m not sure about you all but I’m from New York and we aren’t easygoing about things like this. I will speak to a manager or whoever I need to. I wrote an extremely horrific review about a Best Buy I visited that caused the general manager there to be in tons of trouble. These companies make plenty of money, and the more I can save I will gladly do it. Especially after I already paid for something that was advertised at a very low price. Also plenty of people in this thread already stated they won’t be buying from Monoprice again.


----------



## Jipped

Turns out some people are receiving the amps even after their orders have been cancelled and refunded.


----------



## nwavesailor

OK, I get it. They make tons of $$$ and this is how it goes in the BIG city.

Bah, HUMBUG!

Happy New Year


----------



## nwavesailor

Jipped said:


> Turns out some people are receiving the amps even after their orders have been cancelled and refunded.


Yay!!!

Monoprice is giving away LP's for FREE!!!!! Now that is a solid business plan.


----------



## Jipped

nwavesailor said:


> Yay!!!
> 
> Monoprice is giving away LP's for FREE!!!!! Now that is a solid business plan.


Lol well probably not but some items were shipped before cancellation went through, if you caught the deal early there might be a chance to receive one.


----------



## nwavesailor

I grew up in a different time. 
Heck I call Amazon when i receive a double order in error. I didn't pay for it, it does not belong to me, mistake or not.

Again, I like a deal as much as the next guy but when it is too good to be true, it is obviously a mistake.
If you think that life in the dog eat dog and I want more FREE stuff we will agree to disagree I suppose.


----------



## Marlowe (Dec 31, 2021)

Michael V said:


> It’s just the price of doing business. They should honor their price. If you walk into a store and there’s a price on an item on a shelf and you bring it to the register, they have to honor that price. He even said if everyone came into work the next day and no one noticed it would’ve been processed and fulfilled like any other order. In fact according to others it looks like this isn’t the first time they set the price extremely low. I’m not sure about you all but I’m from New York and we aren’t easygoing about things like this. I will speak to a manager or whoever I need to. I wrote an extremely horrific review about a Best Buy I visited that caused the general manager there to be in tons of trouble. These companies make plenty of money, and the more I can save I will gladly do it. Especially after I already paid for something that was advertised at a very low price. Also plenty of people in this thread already stated they won’t be buying from Monoprice again.


Sorry, but I'm from New York, too (born in Brooklyn sixty-eight years ago, spent years living and/or working in Manhattan, now retired in Jersey City, the sixth borough just over the Hudson), so you are quite presumptuous once again. You don't speak for all New Yorkers or everyone in this forum. I understand being disappointed because you were unable to take advantage of an obvious mistake, but that doesn't excuse acting like an entitled juvenile and then refusing to let it go. I have zero sympathy.


----------



## nwavesailor

Well said, @Marlowe!


----------



## sennfan83261 (Dec 31, 2021)

Michael V said:


> It’s just the price of doing business. They should honor their price. If you walk into a store and there’s a price on an item on a shelf and you bring it to the register, they have to honor that price.


They should, but the law doesn't compel them to if the price was a mistake, especially if the sales price was so low that it could be consider unconscionable. Of course, if Monoprice shipped out the units before catching on to the mistake, it is unlikely Monoprice could claw back those units since they fulfilled the order, and thus consented to the mistake. However, in this case, Monoprice caught on to the mistake prior to shipping, and thus prior to order fulfillment.

Furthermore, Monoprice's T&C's (as of 11/2021) gives them an out that clearly states:


> 12.) Errors.
> Monoprice makes every effort to ensure the accuracy of the information published on our Site. However, the documents and graphics published on this Site may contain technical inaccuracies or typographical errors. We do not warrant that the content on our Site is accurate, complete, reliable, current, or error-free. *Monoprice may refuse or cancel orders placed with incorrect pricing*. We do not guarantee prices for Monoprice products listed on other websites or price search engines. If a product offered on the Site is not as described, your sole remedy is to return it in unused condition for a refund.



While, I wish that Monoprice honored my $165 LP order (planned mod this one), and admittedly was a little upset but unsurprised when receiving their cancellation email, they appear to have legal grounds to do what they did. Of course, that doesn't mean that they didn't lose a bit of goodwill from some of their customers.

Besides, I've never been a fan of the build quality of their products. In my experience, Monoprice USB cables are shockingly shoddy; Amazon's plain-jane cables run circles around MP's with respect to build quality, and that's not saying much. I already had to return one LP due to its crappy volume pot exhibiting channel imbalance at around 10 o'clock. Now the replacement LP's SMPS power supply developed a coil whine in a little less than a year. I jumped on a recent deal for the LAuX at around $516 since I liked the LP's sound but hate tube rolling. So far, I prefer the sound of the LAuX to my THX AAA 789 (an amp that suffered scratchy volume pot syndrome after one year of ownership)*, but I doubt its longevity given my past experiences with MP.

*fixed by taking out the amp's board from the chassis and applying some liquid deoxit to the volume pot


----------



## HeadphonePerson (Jan 1, 2022)

I also ordered this at $165 and had it canceled. This is sort of par for the course in these extreme price discrepancies so I wasn't surprised it got canceled, but I think $100 off of $800 is a bit of a cop out since it's not even close to previous sales. I don't think many people were able to order it at the $165 price anyway so why not give those small number of people (who didn't order a ton of units to flip) a decent sale price since they're still making a profit where I assume they're taking a loss at $165. I'm not going to throw a tantrum but I think it's pretty bad customer service.

Some people are receiving the amp and were also refunded so a small number of people got this amp completely free lol. Props to whoever gets one delivered, $165 or free. I'm still crossing my fingers that mine will come but the likelihood is slim.


----------



## bouscadie

A big thank you to the moral fathers for putting us back on the right track! do you often hunt in packs?

For my part I had never noticed this amp before, neither its price nor its history, I came across this blow and looking for a small inexpensive amp I tell myself that it is worth trying without know more.

It didn't work... of course that's okay. I do not feel at all at all at fault and I still think that this company which I did not know before behaved (very) badly, the capricious children are them, not the bad customers. As adults, we take responsibility for our stupidities and we repair it as much as possible, there the stupidity was easily repaired in this case.
 I lost money with this (Paypal fees) and the minimum honesty should be to reimburse me for this loss, I asked for it, and in view of their polite but stupid answers and refusal my appreciation will remain frankly bad at this company, and no one has to judge my experience here. Everyone does what they want, so of course.

I wish you all a happy new year, in music !.


----------



## acohen001 (Jan 2, 2022)

My original post about the price came about because of an email I received from Monoprice that indicated that the item that I had been looking at had a price drop.  They solicited me and I did not simply happen on their website and see the (erroneoulsy) discounted price.  I did not think they would honor the price, but I took a shot, and I wanted to share it w/my fellow Head-Fiers.  They made a mistake.  The difference between my experience and Bouscadie’s experience is that their mistake cost him money.  He has every right to be upset at them and they should definitely refund him those fees for *their* mistake.  That would be common courtesy.


----------



## Terr0rSandmann (Jan 8, 2022)

Hey guys ... I did it again ... I think it is already my 3rd LP ... but this time I would like to try some other tubes.
Are there some general recommendations? Should sound more musical and "tubish", but should not lose much details/resolution. And should have a good price / performence ratio.
I bought the LP used and there I got an additional pair of Gold Lion e88cc 6922. Are those tubes good with the LP?


----------



## Odin412

Terr0rSandmann said:


> Hey guys ... I did it again ... I think it is already my 3rd LP ... but this time I would like to try some other tubes.
> Are there some general recommendations? Should sound more musical and "tubish", but should not lose much details/resolution. And should have a good price / performence ratio.
> I bought the LP used and there I got an additional pair of Gold Lion e88cc 6922. Are those tubes good with the LP?


The Gold Lions are very nice. I currently use a pair of vintage Amperex 6922 and they are wondeful.


----------



## Shane D

Well, the love affair has come to an end. After about 18 months I shipped out my LP to its new owner on the west coast. We had a LOT of great times, but nothing lasts forever.


----------



## Zachik

Shane D said:


> Well, the love affair has come to an end. After about 18 months I shipped out my LP to its new owner on the west coast. We had a LOT of great times, but nothing lasts forever.


What happened?!  A new woman amp came between you and the LP?


----------



## Shane D

Zachik said:


> What happened?!  A new woman amp came between you and the LP?


It got bumped out by an iFi Pro iCAN. Now I am looking for something interesting.


----------



## greenkiwi

I've wanted to get a Questyle at some point... I liked the 12 when I heard it.  Will be trying the 15 when I get a chance.  I'll see if it can dislodge the Hugo2 I'm using.


----------



## Terr0rSandmann

Does anyone know which cap mods are available and recommendable? And is there any documentation available? Plz apologies, but almost 300 pages are a bit to much to check everything.
I would like to mod my LP soon to get even better sound with my HE1000V2 😊🍻


----------



## the1andonly

after these went on sale for $150ish bucks I cannot consider buying them unless I can get them at that price... monoprice crazy sometimes


----------



## ClicketEKlack

the1andonly said:


> after these went on sale for $150ish bucks I cannot consider buying them unless I can get them at that price... monoprice crazy sometimes


You can get an Xduoo MT-604 balanced tube amp for $169. Don’t know how it stacks up against the LP, but I’m enjoying mine.


----------



## the1andonly

ClicketEKlack said:


> You can get an Xduoo MT-604 balanced tube amp for $169. Don’t know how it stacks up against the LP, but I’m enjoying mine.


I was considering a tube hybrid a while back... and I love class A but I just went opposite ways with Class A Oppo HA-1 and then pure tube with tube power supply WA7 which admittedly doesn't change much with tube rolling, but then I don't have a temptation to drop hundreds on tubes. I enjoyed my choice quite a lot because I happened to love the ESS9018 over basically every other SABRE DAC (didn't like the 9038pro at all!) I have heard, and I knew I would like the smooth burr-brown in the gen 1 WA7 but was very very surprised how capable the chip was based on age, so I kind of got lucky with 2 very good AMPs and 2 DACs that might not be as good as the AMPs but are very much my preferences and quite good overall. 

How that that thing respond to tube rolling? I really should go about getting a monster killer DAC to increase my performance but everything is running chips I hate at the high end 9038pro or AKM chips... Maybe I should capitalize on the DAC chips I like and get another nice little tube I can roll, are some of the top tier tubes very expensive?


----------



## sennfan83261 (Jan 15, 2022)

the1andonly said:


> after these went on sale for $150ish bucks I cannot consider buying them unless I can get them at that price... monoprice crazy sometimes


That was a pricing error. Monoprice canceled and refunded everyone's order (including mine).


----------



## the1andonly

sennfan83261 said:


> That was a pricing error. Monoprice canceled and refunded everyone's order (including mine).


That's rich, but I know their support well enough to know they are a well oiled and soulless machine pretending to be customer friendly, and I have seen what is behind the nice veneers, so in a way that is a relief as I don't wish to do business with them going forward, so I hope nothing of theirs temps me now or in the future.


----------



## Louisiana

Terr0rSandmann said:


> Does anyone know which cap mods are available and recommendable? And is there any documentation available?


Caps
https://forum.hifiguides.com/t/monolith-liquid-platinum/9820/674

Pictures
https://forum.hifiguides.com/t/monolith-liquid-platinum/9820/536
and
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...by-alex-cavalli.876406/page-214#post-15836718


----------



## Jipped

sennfan83261 said:


> That was a pricing error. Monoprice canceled and refunded everyone's order (including mine).


I received mine after the refund went out along with a handful of others. It's unknown how many they shipped out before canceling orders but some of us got lucky.


----------



## Odin412

Liquid Platinum and ZMF Aeolus. Two good friends reunited last night and made beautiful music together.


----------



## the1andonly (Jan 18, 2022)

sennfan83261 said:


> That was a pricing error. Monoprice canceled and refunded everyone's order (including mine).


*[Redacted] *in the the interest of accuracy + some people didn't see comments I made to keep the discussion peaceful and accurate as possible.



Haven't looked but it's possible their terms specify either customers need to return items , with wording like in event of blah blah you agree to blah blah, would be hard to enforce *[speculation proved unfounded]* unlikely they would peruse people criminally IMO,*[incorrect info proved false]* seems really weird they would refund the orders as well without a contingency unless they really are that disorganized.*[unrelated]* blacklist the serial numbers for warranty (since you have to give invoice info or it's already on account they will see you were one of the people who got it and really should not have...)

I have seen quite a few extremely cheap ones being listed as well as sold, especially considering the details of the condition of the units... For those people who did get one thru this incident and do sell it, I have a concern it might not have a warranty*[speculation, no idea if true(disclosed that)] *I am just speculating however, I have heard nothing to suggest warranty cancellation, except the odd refunds given, with seemingly no request to get the item back or be compensated. Monoprice may just choose to honor the warranties, but if I were selling one I would call discretely and generally asking if hypothetically these amps have warranties without giving too much info...

*Anyway I bring the topic of their cheap amps floating around for the safety of anyone who purchases them. To those of you who purchased cheap liquid platinums or are considering it, and see this, I would consider not only asking the seller how they got it, but also get the serial number and run it by Monoprice to make sure you are not getting any surprises... [unrelated prior interaction]

[speculation, potentially partially unfounded].* and now I am keeping deals pages for amps and headphones up and refreshing everyday, can't believe I missed it 

*P.S. Edited this a few times to make sure I wasn't pointing fingers at anyone or giving the idea I know something nobody else here knows. The only new information I posted is the slickdeals comments which I have no way of knowing which are true or false, saying some people still got amps and some didn't. I posted this out of concern for potential and recent buyers of this product so they can be informed of the information that might potentially adversely effect them. I know as much about this as anyone else who happened to read the comments.*

Disclaimer
1. This is only my opinion.
2. I am biased, like everyone else.
3. I have not heard everything in the world.


----------



## sennfan83261

the1andonly said:


> Just went thru the slickdeals page... apparently everyone got their order cancelled, and refunded.... but many people still got the amps shipped to them, confirmation of one person who received 2 amps and was refunded, and there was another person ITT who claimed to order 20 (no confirmation).... Personally if I got one I would hold it and not touch it for a few months to make sure I never got a letter saying to give it back


MP cannot do anything if they already performed their part of the bargain following charging the customer (i.e. sending the amp to the customer). In doing so, they agreed to the transaction.


----------



## the1andonly (Jan 18, 2022)

Deleted in the the interest of accuracy + some people didn't see comments I made to keep the discussion peaceful and accurate as possible.

*" I just disagree with you they "cannot do anything"."*

Disclaimer
1. This is only my opinion.
2. I am biased, like everyone else.
3. I have not heard everything in the world.


----------



## sennfan83261

the1andonly said:


> ...You do realize these people are shopping on Monoprice's website, and they are allowed to put terms of usage up (that only apply if they were there at time of order) that you agree to when you buy, even if you don't read them? That is a pretty ridiculous statement to make unless you have read thru all their terms. I also do not think they refunded the people for no reason, they are a 8 figure a month monthly company that I am sure has very scary lawyers and from their response it doesn't seem like they think it's a normal transaction.
> 
> *Anyway you are free think whatever you want. *I think for a company as old as them, as large as them, and as understaffed as them, this has happened before and they have a plan for the occasion that doesn't consist of expending extra effort to let customers who got their item at a steep discount. just have it free, lol. So sorry I just disagree with you they "cannot do anything".


Look, if the seller delivered the item to the buyer, then the seller acquiesced to the pricing error and the order is fulfilled, completed. If you look at the terms of the website, it talks about cancelling orders placed with the incorrect price, which is their way out from performing to the terms of the order (e.g. delivering the amp to the buyer). The cancellation referred to therein occurs prior to MP performing. If MP performs by delivering the product to the buyer, then the order fulfilled: it is done, finished. There's no more order to cancel. This is why those who receive the amp from this error are under no obligation to return it since MP conduct can be construed as acceptance of the buyer's offer and that MP fulfilled the terms of that order from its delivery.


----------



## HeadphonePerson

Monoprice listed the amp as out of stock very quickly so only a small number of people were even able to order them and only a small % of those (from what I've seen) actually got the amp delivered. It would be a huge fiasco is they decided to request returns or re-charge people and would cause far more problems than it would solve. I haven't read their terms but I can't see how that would be legal anyway.

Some people just got really lucky with a free Liquid Platinum. As for the warranty, I assume it won't be a huge problem but it's definitely a weird situation where people received an order that in a way doesn't actually exist because it was canceled. It could cause a lot of confusion if people try to warranty those orders and they might deny the warranty claim, but the amp was free anyway so the buyer isn't out anything.


----------



## the1andonly (Jan 18, 2022)

Deleted in the the interest of accuracy + some people didn't see comments I made to keep the discussion peaceful and accurate as possible.

*"what matters is what they do."*

Disclaimer
1. This is only my opinion.
2. I am biased, like everyone else.
3. I have not heard everything in the world.


----------



## Marlowe

the1andonly said:


> *feel free to rebut me again but I won't be responding, I think I have said more than enough.*


I definitely agree with the last clause (and I _am_ a retired lawyer). I think anyone who actually got a LP at the erroneous price can quit worrying about having their door kicked in by Monoprice's crack security forces.


----------



## Jipped (Jan 18, 2022)

the1andonly said:


> I see that, and I see they cancelled the orders, you think they gave the money back on orders they could see had valid tracking numbers in transit because they are nice people? Maybe they did, but I also know there are several names to describe items you may receive in the mail and decide to keep without being paid for*(orders cancelled, as you said) and I know what has happened to some of those people who decide to keep the items. *The terms were written by lawyers, and if a few lawyers told me what you said I would generally trust their judgement, but without that happening I can say I see what you are saying, but personally text does not explicitly talk about the situation at hand(as they often don't) so I will keep my doubts.... In the end I am still of the opinions Monoprice has more options than just to eat it, *but what matters is what they do. They could very well take no further action*, clients sometimes have knee jerk decisions and later, after a meeting with council realize they might have made things worse, but there is no proof that is what happened, and you haven't addressed how refunding people who received items makes any sense, if the narrative doesn't fit the facts, I usually consider a piece of the puzzle is missing...
> 
> Sorry if for some reason you need me to tell you that you are absolutely correct, that isn't going to happen, and since I am not a lawyer it doesn't mean much anyway.
> Anyone else is free to believe what they want, I don't really think the issue is resolved logically or the policies give much more insight....* we literally knew they could cancel orders... because they did cancel orders, lol. That is literally all the text you referenced said... I also don't think when they put 'cancel orders' they had in mind giving people free items instead of incorrectly hugely discounted items... if something seems to good to be true.
> ...



I did not mean to spark a huge debate but if the person is in the US, they have no legal obligation to send the item back as it is deemed as a gift.  Once the order was cancelled and buyer was refunded then the transaction is complete.  The buyer is under no obligation to return the item and can keep said item or dispose of it as they want. This is to prevent companies from shipping random items to people and then charging an individual for the item they never wanted, terms and conditions can say whatever they want but there's nothing legally that can be done.

A saintly person can call a company and tell them they received the item by mistake and then offer to return the item which has happened many times.  As for MP doing anything well they could sue those who received the LP considering in the US you can sue for a anything just doesn't mean they'll win the case and the bad publicity from this move would not be worth it.

To anyone else who received this item as a gift just please be aware there will be no warranty on the LP of course since there's been no transaction.


----------



## the1andonly (Jan 18, 2022)

I did some more digging to find a concrete answer. I said I wouldn't continue to post ITT but I feel like I made a mistake and want to correct it. _@sennfan83261 you were correct that criminally nothing should be able to be done, nor can they levy unauthorized charges_, but the answer wasn't in the terms(my opinion, still believe this), a simple answer lies on the Federal Trade Commissions Government website.

As @Jipped chimed in, the answer to can they do anything _legally_ in my opinion falls under "in the US you can sue for a anything just doesn't mean they'll win " until an answer is found, and I will reiterate again,* while I think them cancelling the orders and refunding probably was for a reason, I absolutely think the chance of taking proactive measures to be extremely small(but not 0%....), but I think there is a chance for them to take passive measures is realistically there until an answer is found.*

"You don’t have to wait forever for things you order to arrive. And, you can dispute charges for things that didn’t arrive or that you didn’t accept. *As for products that show up that you never ordered, you don’t have to pay for them. Federal laws protect you."

"By law, companies can’t send unordered merchandise to you, then demand payment. That means you never have to pay for things you get but didn’t order. You also don’t have to return unordered merchandise. You’re legally entitled to keep it as a free gift."*

https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articl...s-you-never-got-or-you-get-unordered-products

Please note there seem to be exceptions to this, _*that do not seem to apply here...*_

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...istakenly-delivered-house-says-did-wrong.html

good read on a different but similar situation and for anyone who ships expensive items a good lesson to use signature delivery!

Disclaimer
1. This is only my opinion.
2. I am biased, like everyone else.
3. I have not heard everything in the world.


----------



## dstarr3

Yeah, no, MP are not going to be sending thugs to the doors of those they sent cheap LPs to. Even if they had some legal right to request the buyer to return their erroneously priced product, which I severely doubt they do, the cost of collecting all of the delivered LPs would far exceed the money they'd recover.

If we were talking thousands of units delivered at an erroneously huge discount, _maaaaaaaaaaybe _they'd try sending a letter. But in the case of this where it's like, maybe 5 units that got delivered, no, they're just going to eat the loss.


----------



## Deleeh

No kidding, it was nice to have some peace and quiet because of the monoprice issue, and now they're boiling hot water again for nothing.

I find this discussion here totally pointless and off the mark and almost presumptuous.
This crying just because Monoprice cancelled the orders due to a system error.
The fact that you have to drag the shop through the mud is just as repulsive.
Mistakes happen.
Errors also happen to the electricity companies, so that the electricity is lost?
There are really far worse problems that are even more important than getting upset about an amplifier that you can't get now.
At least 50% of the community wouldn't even have kept it, but would have sold it on Ebay for at least $600 out of greed.
That would be OK in reverse, wouldn't it?
If you think you can express yourselves like this and vent your anger, why don't you open a separate thread where you can let off steam?
The last 5-10 pages were just a kindergarten of frustration to read, like a little child who was taken away the lollipop.

Actually, you should be sued because you almost have to read the bull that is not informative and does not contribute to the matter.
That's the frustrating part.
When the window pops up you might have the hope that there really is something new, maybe new tubes that have been tried out or a discount, then you read crap like this.


----------



## sahmen (Jan 18, 2022)

For me, my cancelled Liquid Platinum order is just spilled liquid.  Agreed that certain images could be at times agreeable to the eye, but a spilling or spilled Liquid Platinum is unfortunately not one of them   















That's just for a spot of levity.  Absolutely no offense intended.


----------



## K-Lawn

So, something strange happened to me. 

I bought a lightly used LP (late 2021 model) and it has worked perfectly for the past week. Today, I had a pentaconn to XLR adapter delivered and it made my 660S/800S sound fantastic with their included balanced pentaconn cables. However, just now I tripped the protection circuit when turning up the volume (no audio playing). This caused the white light to turn red but it shortly returned to white. I powered off the amp, and powered it back on. After, when I played audio, only the left channel came through, though with some static before tripping the circuit again (white to red light). I powered off the amp and checked my connection to find that the 660s Pentaconn cable was only partially inserted into the 4.44mm to XLR adapter (which explains the static left channel). After fully plugging it in, both left/right channels returned and my amp operates perfectly.

My question is:

 Is the partially plugged cable into the adapter really enough to trigger the protection circuit? If so, Cavalli must have had a good reason such as protecting both the amp and headphones.


----------



## Jimmyblues1959

And I thought I got a great deal at $399.99.  lol  A free $800 headphone amplifier!   Nah,  computers never make mistakes. 😉


----------



## CEE TEE

K-Lawn said:


> My question is:
> 
> Is the partially plugged cable into the adapter really enough to trigger the protection circuit? If so, Cavalli must have had a good reason such as protecting both the amp and headphones.


Yes- a partially plugged in cable or adapter can short the output and a protection circuit is designed to help prevent permanent damage.

With many older tube amps (point-to-point wiring) or DIY amps, you want to turn down the volume knob all the way and/or stop the music before plugging/unplugging headphones.  The TRS/TRRS plugs are not a good design for plugging/unplugging with "hot" outputs.  (That is another reason many of us prefer 4-pin XLR connectors, even if the amp is only single-ended/not balanced.)


----------



## hikaru12 (Feb 9, 2022)

I just recently went back to the LP and it always reminds me why I kept this amp after having so many others. I had it sitting in a box (after being cap modded) for a while. While it may not be the most detailed out there - when it's cap modded it's a lot more responsive to tube rolling which is immensely fun. I love that it also can take SE and turn it into balanced. Makes for a nice compact setup. This amp is for those who really just want to enjoy their music and not analyze. It's an excellent pairing with the Yggy and Bifrost 2. Besides, I made my LP distinctly mine but cutting a huge hole in it to make tube rolling and cap changes super simple haha. No one would probably buy it anyway (probably my way of keeping it intentionally). At the $400-$500 sales these come at with some good tubes - don't even consider another amp. 3.6W in balanced will have you at 11' o clock if you like to listen loud like me. What else could you want for the price?


----------



## deuter

hikaru12 said:


> I just recently went back to the LP and it always reminds me why I kept this amp after having so many others. I had it sitting in a box (after being cap modded) for a while. While it may not be the most detailed out there - when it's cap modded it's a lot more responsive to tube rolling which is immensely fun. I love that it also can take SE and turn it into balanced. Makes for a nice compact setup. This amp is for those who really just want to enjoy their music and not analyze. It's an excellent pairing with the Yggy and Bifrost 2. Besides, I made my LP distinctly mine but cutting a huge hole in it to make tube rolling and cap changes super simple haha. No one would probably buy it anyway (probably my way of keeping it intentionally). At the $400-$500 sales these come at with some good tubes - don't even consider another amp. 3.6W in balanced will have you at 11' o clock if you like to listen loud like me. What else could you want for the price?


I agree, I couldn’t see it getting any better but nevertheless got the formula s and have kept the liquid platinum inside.
I don’t want to sell it because it punches way further than it’s price.


----------



## dstarr3

Yeah, same here. The more I listen to it, the more it becomes a "you'll have to pry it from my cold dead hands" kind of amp.


----------



## Odin412

dstarr3 said:


> Yeah, same here. The more I listen to it, the more it becomes a "you'll have to pry it from my cold dead hands" kind of amp.


That's the Cavalli magic.


----------



## Wes S

hikaru12 said:


> I just recently went back to the LP and it always reminds me why I kept this amp after having so many others. I had it sitting in a box (after being cap modded) for a while. While it may not be the most detailed out there - when it's cap modded it's a lot more responsive to tube rolling which is immensely fun. I love that it also can take SE and turn it into balanced. Makes for a nice compact setup. This amp is for those who really just want to enjoy their music and not analyze. It's an excellent pairing with the Yggy and Bifrost 2. Besides, I made my LP distinctly mine but cutting a huge hole in it to make tube rolling and cap changes super simple haha. No one would probably buy it anyway (probably my way of keeping it intentionally). At the $400-$500 sales these come at with some good tubes - don't even consider another amp. 3.6W in balanced will have you at 11' o clock if you like to listen loud like me. What else could you want for the price?


Good stuff, and to answer your last question. . . a better pot.


----------



## hikaru12

Wes S said:


> Good stuff, and to answer your last question. . . a better pot.


Haha yeah they did make it a bit hard to change it to an Alps or something. That’s one part why I don’t know they cheaped out on.


----------



## hikaru12

Does anyone know what the max heater current is? Could this handle 600mA at 6.3V?


----------



## HiFiRobot

12AU7 adapters for the Liquid Platinum. Got lots of tube options now 😄


----------



## Odin412

HiFiRobot said:


> 12AU7 adapters for the Liquid Platinum. Got lots of tube options now 😄


Very nice! Let us know of any nice 12AU7 tubes that you find.


----------



## Wes S

HiFiRobot said:


> 12AU7 adapters for the Liquid Platinum. Got lots of tube options now 😄


Nice!  Starting out strong with those RFT foil getters.  Knowing the sound sig of both the amp and those tubes, I bet that is going to sound killer!


----------



## povidlo

Liquid Platinum DAC is now available for shipping after multiple delays.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=38966


----------



## dstarr3

povidlo said:


> Liquid Platinum DAC is now available for shipping after multiple delays.
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=38966


Only a one-year warranty on an $800 DAC? When its matching amp that also costs $800 but comes with a five-year warranty? 

That's a bit yikes


----------



## Guidostrunk

hikaru12 said:


> Haha yeah they did make it a bit hard to change it to an Alps or something. That’s one part why I don’t know they cheaped out on.


We did 3 of them with the Alps pots and it wasn't easy. Required front plate modification.


----------



## jonathan c

dstarr3 said:


> Only a one-year warranty on an $800 DAC? When its matching amp that also costs $800 but comes with a five-year warranty?


Other considerations:  Does renown in amplifier design (which Cavalli obviously has) ==> outstanding DAC design? Switching-mode vs linear power supply for a DAC?


----------



## kumar402

jonathan c said:


> Other considerations:  Does renown in amplifier design (which Cavalli obviously has) ==> outstanding DAC design? Switching-mode vs linear power supply for a DAC?


It takes 12v/1A so we can easily use LPS with this DAC unlike the LP amp. But I am in no need of any DAC now. Could have got it when LP was launched but not now.


----------



## jonathan c

kumar402 said:


> It takes 12v/1A so we can easily use LPS with this DAC unlike the LP amp. But I am in no need of any DAC now. Could have got it when LP was launched but not now.


When I owned the Liquid Platinum, besides the capacitor modifications, I used this (it was tremendous):


----------



## George Chronis (Mar 10, 2022)

jonathan c said:


> When I owned the Liquid Platinum, besides the capacitor modifications, I used this (it was tremendous):


Don't they go to these extends of not using a different PS (at least on the LP) because Cavalli is doing something weird with the timing of heating up the lamps that depends on the supply or something? Have you read anything about that?


----------



## jonathan c (Mar 10, 2022)

George Chronis said:


> Don't they go to these extends of not using a different PS (at least on the LP) because Cavalli is doing something weird with the timing of heating up the lamps that depends on the supply or something? Have you ready anything about that?


•  Cavalli amps have protective circuitry that triggers especially if the SE headphone socket is used.
•  With the external LPS-36, my routine was: ON LPS-36, ON L.P.; OFF L.P., OFF LPS-36. In the two years that I owned the Cavalli / Monoprice LP, I _never_ had a problem via the external power supply: all benefits! [The LP & LPS-36 were sold as I went “full tube” h/p/a.]


----------



## PopZeus

I normally don't do this but I wanted to drop in to mention I'm selling my barely used LP.


----------



## music_man

I just got this. I plan to keep it on 24/7. I was wondering if therefore perhaps it may not be the best amp for me? For the same reason, I was also wondering if I should not use the LPS-36? I have already pulled the cord without powering it down. I do not know if it is damaged yet or not. Is it likely that it is already? How fragile is this thing? It sounds lovely.


----------



## George Chronis

music_man said:


> I just got this. I plan to keep it on 24/7. I was wondering if therefore perhaps it may not be the best amp for me? For the same reason, I was also wondering if I should not use the LPS-36? I have already pulled the cord without powering it down. I do not know if it is damaged yet or not. Is it likely that it is already? How fragile is this thing? It sounds lovely.


From what I've read:

You would have known if it's damaged. If it works, it's not damaged. If it's damaged because of the power supply, it goes into constant protection mode, the tubes may be on regardless of the position of the power button etc. If the basic functions are normal, it's fine.
I wouldn't keep it on 24/7 as I wouldn't keep on any tube amp 24/7. I'd go solid state for that.
Most reports I have read with damages because of power supply issues (or power interruptions for that matter) are because power was interrupted because of an outage etc. You could put it on a UPS, but as I mentioned before: I wouldn't have a tube amp on 24/7.
I agree it sounds lovely


----------



## music_man

yeah, I guess it is not for me. Which is sad because I adore the sound. I am bed ridden, it is by my side. I honestly have headphones on 20-24 hours a day. That is probably too much wear and tear on a tube amp.  I think I am going to keep the IDSD Pro all in one. It also has tubes but I can run it SS. Unless I can think of something else since then the IDSD also becomes a waste of $$$ due to not using the tubes. The K872 do not need an amplifier but they need one to sound good.


----------



## George Chronis

music_man said:


> yeah, I guess it is not for me. Which is sad because I adore the sound. I am bed ridden, it is by my side. I honestly have headphones on 20-24 hours a day. That is probably too much wear and tear on a tube amp.  I think I am going to keep the IDSD Pro all in one. It also has tubes but I can run it SS. Unless I can think of something else since then the IDSD also becomes a waste of $$$ due to not using the tubes. The K872 do not need an amplifier but they need one to sound good.


Maybe a Schiit Jot? If you are actually using it 24/7, maybe some extra sets of tubes I guess, and put it on a UPS. I didn’t realize you are actually using it that much.


----------



## music_man

I figured extra tubes was my easy answer. I am just concerned if the power goes out. The power sucks in the inner city of Chicago. Transformers explode every week. Pus Amazon just lowered the price $150 but I want to keep it, bummer. It sounds as good as my RS DarkStar did. I had other tube amps but it sounds like that one to me. Perhaps keeping the LPS on will keep the safety feature from breaking. I just hope so. I ordered the LPS yesterday.


----------



## George Chronis

music_man said:


> I figured extra tubes was my easy answer. I am just concerned if the power goes out. The power sucks in the inner city of Chicago. Transformers explode every week. Pus Amazon just lowered the price $150 but I want to keep it, bummer. It sounds as good as my RS DarkStar did. I had other tube amps but it sounds like that one to me. Perhaps keeping the LPS on will keep the safety feature from breaking. I just hope so. I ordered the LPS yesterday.


You can put it on a UPS, it’ll hold the power for a while to give you enough time for a proper shutdown on very long outages. For short outages, you can just leave it on.


----------



## music_man

*"The Cavalli/Monolith Liquid Platinum is a balanced version of the very highly regarded Cavalli Audio Liquid Crimson amplifier. "

Is this actually true? the hulking liquid Crimson, at $2,850 does seem like it was much "more" amplifier.  It must be lacking something somewhere compared to the Crimson? If not, no wonder this is such a steal.

If that is true I do not even mind that it is rather fragile. I will deal with it. BTW, it is $639 at Amazon right now! Unfortunately they will not reimburse me. However, if this is indeed the Liquid Crimson I suggest everyone and their dog go get one for that price!*


----------



## greenkiwi

music_man said:


> yeah, I guess it is not for me. Which is sad because I adore the sound. I am bed ridden, it is by my side. I honestly have headphones on 20-24 hours a day. That is probably too much wear and tear on a tube amp.  I think I am going to keep the IDSD Pro all in one. It also has tubes but I can run it SS. Unless I can think of something else since then the IDSD also becomes a waste of $$$ due to not using the tubes. The K872 do not need an amplifier but they need one to sound good.


I actually think that you're probably just fine.  I mean - if you're actually using it for that time, enjoy it.

I would guess that most people are reacting to the 24/7 as the "I keep in on 24/7 to keep it warm and sounding best, but only use it for 2-3 hours a day".  In that case, you're putting wear and tear on the tubes without getting any enjoyment from them.  

If it were me, and i liked the sound - which I do - I'd just use them all day and enjoy and just plan on getting new tubes a little sooner.  They don't have to be that expensive.  

I would think about getting the tube spacers which lift the tubes up a bit for easier removal.

One other thing to think about - if you are in a place that gets warm, tubes - any tubes - will run warm and warm up the room.  So if that were a concern, then I might go solid state.


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## music_man

It is actually perfect for me, Alex Cavelli warned against using an LPS. Since at some point everyone forgets the power sequence. Me, I will never be turning it off. The Electro-Harmonex tubes are the long lasting at 10K hours. They are very good new tubes. A matched pair is about $40. NOS 6922 can command $1,000 a piece now.

It is in fact correct that the Liquid Platinum is a physically smaller and balanced Liquid Crimson. Otherwise, it is the exact same headphone amplifier and sounds exactly the same. Although, the Platinum is somewhat quieter due to being balanced.

Either way, the Liquid Platinum sounds absolutely fantastic to me.


----------



## jonathan c

It does sound great (especially with: cap mods, LPS, and Philips BEL 6922s). If only the gain were not so high…. I did not want to replace my DAC (Mojo Audio Mystique) by one with a volume control….thus exit LP+…


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## dstarr3

I think I read this somewhere, maybe someone here can confirm one way or the other. But I feel like I once read that good NOS tubes should be good for about 10,000 hours? Which, if that's the case, leaving a tube amp on 24/7 would mean the best tubes would only be good for about a little over a year. Whereas if you only turn the amp on during actual use, tubes could last 5-10 years easy.


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## Stylish (Mar 14, 2022)

dstarr3 said:


> I think I read this somewhere, maybe someone here can confirm one way or the other. But I feel like I once read that good NOS tubes should be good for about 10,000 hours? Which, if that's the case, leaving a tube amp on 24/7 would mean the best tubes would only be good for about a little over a year. Whereas if you only turn the amp on during actual use, tubes could last 5-10 years easy.


I ended up wasting a bunch of hours on my NOS Telefunken for my Liquid Crimson, ended up putting it away even if the time was 10k hours I wouldn't find it worth it. It just burns something that's getting rather rare / scarce. Save those tubes for full listening sessions imo.


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## music_man

I am not using the LPS. It does sound better. Staff here unplug/plug stuff every morning. Nothing I can do. I am very pleased with the sound of my system regardless.

I have an IFI Pro Ican here I am going to return. I think the LP is way better. I keep forgetting that the LP is a $3,000 amp. Usually, things are priced accordingly. That is why every man and his dog wants this one. I was wondering what anyone else thinks about the LP Vs. the Ican? the Ican is $2,250 and I think the LP wipes the floor with it. For one thing I think the design is much nicer to begin with.


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## music_man (Mar 15, 2022)

My headphones are very sensitive. Is it better to set the DAC's XLR output less hot so that the volume on the LP is around 12 O'clock? Or with the standard 4 volts on the XLR the volume is at about 9 O'clock. The volume does not start until 7:30 or so. I am guessing that for one thing there could be channel imbalance that low. It should just work better in the middle of the dial? Although I am afraid that can cause premature wear and tear? If no
t on the tubes, the solid state circuitry as well.
==============================================================================
Edit: I went ahead and set it so the volume on the LP is at 12 O'clock. This sounds much better than 9 O'clock as I figured. I keep thinking that the Ican has to be better. Forgetting that the LP is grossly underpriced. I like this better than the Benchmark HPA4 as well. what amp is clearly better than this. Beyond subjectivity? I was well aware that this was punching well beyond it's weight. I did not realize in the ball park of 3 grand. This is actually the case? The only reason I have my eyes open is due to my using it so much and being unable to make use of the LPS. The sound from it is more than satisfactory.


----------



## Stylish (Mar 15, 2022)

music_man said:


> My headphones are very sensitive. Is it better to set the DAC's XLR output less hot so that the volume on the LP is around 12 O'clock? Or with the standard 4 volts on the XLR the volume is at about 9 O'clock. The volume does not start until 7:30 or so. I am guessing that for one thing there could be channel imbalance that low. It should just work better in the middle of the dial? Although I am afraid that can cause premature wear and tear? If no
> t on the tubes, the solid state circuitry as well.
> ==============================================================================
> Edit: I went ahead and set it so the volume on the LP is at 12 O'clock. This sounds much better than 9 O'clock as I figured. I keep thinking that the Ican has to be better. Forgetting that the LP is grossly underpriced. I like this better than the Benchmark HPA4 as well. what amp is clearly better than this. Beyond subjectivity? I was well aware that this was punching well beyond it's weight. I did not realize in the ball park of 3 grand. This is actually the case? The only reason I have my eyes open is due to my using it so much and being unable to make use of the LPS. The sound from it is more than satisfactory.


Doesnt sound similar to the Liquid Crimson, only sounds similar in regards to mid presentation, crimson has much better technical capabilities when I had both side by side, notably Low end is far better as well as stage, speed, imaging. Platinum punches above its weight class but its not quite not the same as what its based on its more its own thing, notably the Platinum responds much better to tube rolling especially when modded.


----------



## music_man

I kind of figured that. I am not sure about the quote of it is simply a balanced Liquid Crimson. On the other hand the Ican may be overpriced or I just don't like it. It uses a tube "effect" AFAIK. I am not sure why some people feel that the Liquid Platinum is such a great amplifier. I am sure I will not have to look far to find something solid state that I like better. Or maybe I will. The Liquid Platinum is rather impressive to me. I am not sure compared to the Liquid Crimson other than the very first statement the advertising makes. I am not sure why they would stick their neck out like that if everyone already knew quite differently. I am not entirely sure if your opinion is subjective or factual. I suppose more people would have to speak on the subject. Still, I am trying to figure out where the bar might be set. What amps do people compare it to. Although, that is probably subjective as well. It could be allover the place. I really like the sound even compared to some amps 5X it's cost. Of course that is subjective on my part as well. As far as it being directly comparable to the sound of the Liquid Crimson I can only go by the original advertising statements. To that effect, at the time many people agreed and were super hyped about this. Just look at the first 5 posts in this thread. It had been confirmed as true and people were tripping on themselves to get the Liquid Platinum. After your comments I am not sure what to believe. I do like to play the devils advocate. This just sounds too good however. this thing is trying too hard to prove itself to me. It really does not want me to send it back  . I have been ready to pack it up and have refrained about Ten times already. This thing really wants to stay put. I do think it sounds that good. I have owned and currently have on hand stuff in every price range. The WA33 is way better but I must give this poor thing a break somewhere.


----------



## Stylish

music_man said:


> I kind of figured that. I am not sure about the quote of it is simply a balanced Liquid Crimson. On the other hand the Ican may be overpriced or I just don't like it. It uses a tube "effect" AFAIK. I am not sure why some people feel that the Liquid Platinum is such a great amplifier. I am sure I will not have to look far to find something solid state that I like better. Or maybe I will. The Liquid Platinum is rather impressive to me. I am not sure compared to the Liquid Crimson other than the very first statement the advertising makes. I am not sure why they would stick their neck out like that if everyone already knew quite differently. I am not entirely sure if your opinion is subjective or factual. I suppose more people would have to speak on the subject. Still, I am trying to figure out where the bar might be set. What amps do people compare it to. Although, that is probably subjective as well. It could be allover the place. I really like the sound even compared to some amps 5X it's cost. Of course that is subjective on my part as well. As far as it being directly comparable to the sound of the Liquid Crimson I can only go by the original advertising statements. To that effect, at the time many people agreed and were super hyped about this. Just look at the first 5 posts in this thread. It had been confirmed as true and people were tripping on themselves to get the Liquid Platinum. After your comments I am not sure what to believe. I do like to play the devils advocate. This just sounds too good however. this thing is trying too hard to prove itself to me. It really does not want me to send it back  . I have been ready to pack it up and have refrained about Ten times already. This thing really wants to stay put. I do think it sounds that good. I have owned and currently have on hand stuff in every price range. The WA33 is way better but I must give this poor thing a break somewhere.


Oh it’s a fantastic amp, as I stated it replicates the Crimson’s midrange performance rather well and generally does a lot better than amps at it’s price range especially used prices, add in cap modding, tube rolling etc it’s a very good package at 350-450$. Hype around this product existed because of its marketing yeah and the fact that only 30 Liquid Crimsons actually exist, so anything close to that sound signature at the price I’ve stated is actually really good despite it not being truly the same sound signature. I always recommend the Liquid Platinum to people wanting a nice amplifier without shelling out serious cash, I just have had both for a long period of time and their definitely different.


----------



## music_man

Yeah. I am not that happy with the deal I got. I paid $800 and it is currently $639 on amazon. That is still a lot. Add, rolling tubes can run $650 a shot.....
I ordered the Burson Soloist Grand tourer today. I sure hope I like that one already. I mean to some extent stuff is subjective but I was positive that the original marketing on this was a bit outlandish. I get it now. People are biting on it for $350 used. For the $800 I am letting them have it back too. Especially since those tubes last less than 5000 hours and me using it so much.


----------



## music_man

The amp in the RME ADI-2 is much more competent and neutral. The LP is more fun but it is not as good of an amp. The RME's amp is surprisingly good but I have a feeling that the Soloist GT will simply destroy the LP. I will find out by Friday. Putting a $2500 amp on the K872 may be a waste to most people but not to me. I do not wish to go any higher though. I simply sunk way too much into the LP. It may be a good deal used if it comes with some tubes.


----------



## Ham Sandwich

Head-fi is a strange place. A place where people will look for the best deal on the hardware. Brag about saving $200 on a sub-$1000 amp because they got it on sale. And then turn around and brag about rolling thousands of dollars worth of tubes in the same amp. 

It's unfortunate that Monoprice regularly puts the LP and LG on sale. Because that gives the impression that the amps are only worth buying when they are on sale. The truth is they are worth buying at full price. I bought both the LP and LG at full price right after each was introduced. I consider both of them well worth what I paid. And would re-buy both of them at full MSRP if I had to.

The LP is a very good amp and captures a lot of the sound qualities of the much more expensive Cavalli Audio amps. The LP very much captures the house sound of the Liquid Fire and Liquid Crimson. The LP gets close to the sound quality. So very close. But not quite there. The LP gets you about 90% there. But in audiophile terms that last 10% is a doozy and a sonic difference that gets audiophiles willing to pay an additional $2K or more to get there. That last 10% is a doozy and worth it for audiophiles, even it it costs a lot to get there.

I own a Liquid Fire. I first heard the Liquid Fire at a meet before its actual release. And got to talk to Alex Cavalli at that meet. And I heard other Liquid Fire amps at other meets. I always heard what the Liquid Fire was doing that was special. Even compared to other $3K+ amps that were at the meets. I kept looking for lower cost amps that also gave me that similar sound quality experience. Never found one. So I bought the Liquid Fire. It was the first time I had spent more than $1000 on a piece of audio gear. I don't regret that at all. It was the best purchase in audio I've done.

The combination of the Liquid Fire and the early LCD-2 and LCD-3 were, and are, a magical combination. Synergy. Worth every penny. A combination where the whole is worth more than the sum of the parts. 

I've also heard the Liquid Crimson side by side with my Liquid Fire. Both amps using new production Genalex Gold Lion tubes. So a very fair and even comparison of the two amps. The two amps were more similar than different. Difference that you can get critical about as an audiophile. But not critical in terms of listening enjoyment. Both are great amps. The Crimson is better in some technical ways and is better at driving higher impedance headphones. If you've got a 200 ohm LCD-4 I'd pick the Crimson over the Liquid Fire. But with a LCD-2 or LCD-3 of the era at around 70 ohms the two amps are more similar. The Liquid Fire has a bit more of the embedded tube sound going on than the Liquid Crimson. Both very good sounding amps that will get you entry into the summit fi forum.

To claim that the older Cavalli Audio amps were just marketing hype is to admit you've never actually listened to one and have no actual experience to back up what you're talking about. The older Cavalli Audio amps will get you into the Summit-fi forum. The Liquid Platinum will not. The difference isn't about cost. It's about sound quality tiers. The sound quality of the Fire and Crimson and Glass and Gold and Lightning will get you into Summit-fi. The Liquid Platinum will not. That last 10% in sound quality is quite a jump from the not quite there tier to the you are there tier. That last 10% is a doozy.

To put another way. I'd rather listen to my Liquid Fire with new production Genalex Gold Lion tubes (for while you can still find them) than listen to the Liquid Platinum with whatever NOS or magic tubes you can find. The Liquid Fire will still have more transparency and sonic goodness. It's not the tubes. It's the amp.

I've always considered the Cavalli blended hybrid amps (Fire, Crimson, Platinum) to have a sense of rose colored transparency. The blended hybrid tubes add that subtle bit of rose coloration. But at the same time that rose coloration doesn't affect the actual transparency. You can still hear through it clearly. Transparency in the ability to hear through the amp and into the source gear and into the recording. As an example, I find the Liquid Fire to make it easier for me to hear differences between DACs than the Liquid Platinum, and especially also against other amps. The Fire is more transparent than the Platinum. That slight lacking of transparency is the Achilles heel of the Liquid Platinum. There are other similarly priced amps that have similar or better transparency. But you're not likely to find similar amps that have more of that style of transparency than the Fire or Crimson. Again, that last 10% difference is a doozy.


----------



## Stylish

Ham Sandwich said:


> I've always considered the Cavalli blended hybrid amps (Fire, Crimson, Platinum) to have a sense of rose colored transparency. The blended hybrid tubes add that subtle bit of rose coloration. But at the same time that rose coloration doesn't affect the actual transparency. You can still hear through it clearly. Transparency in the ability to hear through the amp and into the source gear and into the recording. As an example, I find the Liquid Fire to make it easier for me to hear differences between DACs than the Liquid Platinum, and especially also against other amps. The Fire is more transparent than the Platinum. That slight lacking of transparency is the Achilles heel of the Liquid Platinum. There are other similarly priced amps that have similar or better transparency. But you're not likely to find similar amps that have more of that style of transparency than the Fire or Crimson. Again, that last 10% difference is a doozy.


I love the description and things said here thats a good way to describe the sound signature. The Liquid Crimson blew my mind when I got it from a collector even after using the Liquid Platinum, so much so that I ended up getting a Bricasti M1 just to do the pairing, its been such a joy of a rig the older Cavalli amps are definitely special.


----------



## Odin412

Ham Sandwich said:


> Head-fi is a strange place. A place where people will look for the best deal on the hardware. Brag about saving $200 on a sub-$1000 amp because they got it on sale. And then turn around and brag about rolling thousands of dollars worth of tubes in the same amp.
> 
> It's unfortunate that Monoprice regularly puts the LP and LG on sale. Because that gives the impression that the amps are only worth buying when they are on sale. The truth is they are worth buying at full price. I bought both the LP and LG at full price right after each was introduced. I consider both of them well worth what I paid. And would re-buy both of them at full MSRP if I had to.
> 
> ...


Well said! I used to listen to various Cavalli amps at CanJams over the years and I always loved the Cavalli sound. I always dreamed of owning one, but it wasn't until the Liquid Carbon was released that I was able to fulfill my dream. Although the Cavalli amps of old are not made anymore, the spirit and magic of the Cavalli sound lives on in the Liquid Carbon X from Drop and the Liquid Platinum and Liquid Gold X from Monoprice. All are wonderful amps to my ears.


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## music_man

I honestly found little fault with it. I have either owned or heard most of the 10%. Due to some other considerations, I can no longer partake in that party. Still, I was really happy with the LP. I am disappointed. to be divorcing it so soon. Notwithstanding the Liquid Crimson, or fire it is a quite competent in its own right. my consideration was not the sound, nor the cost of the unit itself. It was indeed the ongoing cost of NOS 6922's Vs. the high commodity that they now command. I feel that you explained this very well. If this is to leave one only wanting for 10%, it is quite frankly easily an $800 amp IMO. We at least need to put that much in perspective. You did that as well. without so much as mentioning a price tag. At the current $639 or even low of $500 it is simply a steal. things go on sale. just chalk it up to that. Just wait until this too is no longer manufactured and those tubes become really scarce.... Regardless, throw those darn expensive tubes in it, the cap mod and the LPS it is already getting way up there. Not only in cost but in sound quality as well. If I must say so myself  .


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## Jimmyblues1959 (Mar 19, 2022)

music_man said:


> Yeah. I am not that happy with the deal I got. I paid $800 and it is currently $639 on amazon. That is still a lot. Add, rolling tubes can run $650 a shot.....
> I ordered the Burson Soloist Grand tourer today. I sure hope I like that one already. I mean to some extent stuff is subjective but I was positive that the original marketing on this was a bit outlandish. I get it now. People are biting on it for $350 used. For the $800 I am letting them have it back too. Especially since those tubes last less than 5000 hours and me using it so much.



When the Liquid Platinum came out a few years back Monoprice was selling them like hotcakes. There were even people in Europe paying upwards of $1200 for LPs  when adding VAT and other charges...  Good luck with the Burson.  They make nice headphone amp's too.


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## deuter

Jimmyblues1959 said:


> When the Liquid Platinum came out a few years back Monoprice was selling them like hotcakes. There were even people in Europe paying upwards of $1200 for LPs  when adding VAT and other charges...  Good luck with the Burson.  They make nice headphone amp's too.


I have repeatedly said this about the playmate 2 it’s very holographic with my Focal Clear MG.


----------



## hikaru12 (Mar 27, 2022)

I’m curious if anyone knows how the Liquid Platinum evolved from the Crimson which used only one 6922 and was single ended to the Platinum which is using two 6922 tubes and is balanced? There seems to be a Liquid Fire for sale for a pretty good price. Would it be worth “upgrading to it” since the Platinum is based on the Crimson which was an upgrade to the fire?


----------



## Stylish

hikaru12 said:


> I’m curious if anyone knows how the Liquid Platinum evolved from the Crimson which used only one 6922 and was single ended to the Platinum which is using two 6922 tubes and is balanced? There seems to be a Liquid Fire for sale for a pretty good price. Would it be worth “upgrading to it” since the Platinum is based on the Crimson which was an upgrade to the fire?


Dr. Cavalli has posts under the name runeight earlier on in this thread around the 15-30 page mark explaining the differences in design between the 2 amplifiers.


----------



## hikaru12

Stylish said:


> Dr. Cavalli has posts under the name runeight earlier on in this thread around the 15-30 page mark explaining the differences in design between the 2 amplifiers.


I notice you have the OG crimson in your signature. I’ve read that it’s a faster less laid back sound than all his other amps. What do you like about yours compared to the LP? How’s the bass?


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## Stylish (Apr 3, 2022)

hikaru12 said:


> I notice you have the OG crimson in your signature. I’ve read that it’s a faster less laid back sound than all his other amps. What do you like about yours compared to the LP? How’s the bass?


Superior on a Technical Perspective both in speed, stage, imaging, transient response, biggest differences one would notice is in areas like extension and such where the Crimson is pretty much only limited by the source it presents a very holographic sphere. Bass response is exceptional but thats partly due to me using a Bricasti M1 as the DAC which helps make up for it, as while its tight and well rounded on its own it isnt the greatest option out there for purely slam so a DAC like a BF2 or at the utter most extreme like a Bricasti gives me better response especially in impact and slam in this region. Not that its lacking in any real sense I myself perfer that a bit more punchy than usual. Nonetheless the combination I have has been one of the best systems I have ever heard period. Crimson on its own compared to the LP isnt even a contest on which ones better in my case, I had compared them both for well over 3 months. *EDIT* Bass response for the HP-1 which on the proper system is the whole meme of what people THINK planar bass is sounds quite amazing in all respects on this system. To which I'm eagerly awaiting the chance to get ahold of an old HE-6 or LCD-4 to test it further so no complaints on it if I run it with Linear Filter on the M1. Which if im being honest is pretty much a requirement at this price range.


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## Zombie_X (Apr 10, 2022)

Hey guys,

I recently picked up the Liquid Platinum out of curiosity and noticed the RCA outputs are a lot quieter than that of my DAC. Is this normal? If I plug one of my amps in direct from the dac, the volume is about at 8PM for it to start getting loud. With the Liquid Platinum's outputs, the other amp has to be at nearly 1PM. This is very strange. Any insight from you guys would be appreciated. Thanks!

EDIT:
Seems the RCA input and outputs died entirely now. All I get is static out of the amp when on RCA input. well that completely sucks. I've only had the amp for two days.


----------



## shafat777

If anyone is interested, I am selling some 12au7/12at7 tubes from my stash. These tubes takes the LP to another level (must use with adapters though)


----------



## muckyfingers

Zombie_X said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I recently picked up the Liquid Platinum out of curiosity and noticed the RCA outputs are a lot quieter than that of my DAC. Is this normal? If I plug one of my amps in direct from the dac, the volume is about at 8PM for it to start getting loud. With the Liquid Platinum's outputs, the other amp has to be at nearly 1PM. This is very strange. Any insight from you guys would be appreciated. Thanks!
> 
> ...


If you can, try a different set of tubes.


----------



## Zombie_X

muckyfingers said:


> If you can, try a different set of tubes.



Man do I feel extra stupid now. Nothing is wrong with the amp at all. I forgot I had the RCA input hooked up to my preamp and guess what? The preamp was turned all the way down. Man do I feel dumb but am very relieved.


----------



## muckyfingers

Zombie_X said:


> Man do I feel extra stupid now. Nothing is wrong with the amp at all. I forgot I had the RCA input hooked up to my preamp and guess what? The preamp was turned all the way down. Man do I feel dumb but am very relieved.


Ha, something similar has happened to all of us, I’m certain.


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## jonathan c (Apr 10, 2022)

muckyfingers said:


> Ha, something similar has happened to all of us, I’m certain.


…a fun (?) thread idea: “Dumbest Amp/Headphone/IEM Moment”…


----------



## JazzVinyl

Did anyone ever try the ECC804 in this amp?


----------



## fordski

Zombie_X said:


> Man do I feel extra stupid now. Nothing is wrong with the amp at all. I forgot I had the RCA input hooked up to my preamp and guess what? The preamp was turned all the way down. Man do I feel dumb but am very relieved.


We’re not laughing at you. We’re laughing with you remembering our own dumb moments.


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## muckyfingers

jonathan c said:


> …a fun (?) thread idea: “Dumbest Amp/Headphone/IEM Moment”…


I’d rather die, than admit anything…lol.


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## LykkeligLyd

I have LCD-2C and considering this amp. Is it enough power in it to drive the headphones, or do I need an additional amp? I recon balanced xlr is a must if I don’t have a balanced cable.


----------



## hikaru12

LykkeligLyd said:


> I have LCD-2C and considering this amp. Is it enough power in it to drive the headphones, or do I need an additional amp? I recon balanced xlr is a must if I don’t have a balanced cable.


More than enough power those are efficient headphones.


----------



## Ham Sandwich

LykkeligLyd said:


> I have LCD-2C and considering this amp. Is it enough power in it to drive the headphones, or do I need an additional amp? I recon balanced xlr is a must if I don’t have a balanced cable.



The Liquid Platinum has more than enough power for the LCD-2 flavors. I've been using it with a LCD-2 rev 2 from 2011 and also a LCD-2 Classic. 

What you have to keep in mind with this amp is that it is designed as a balanced amp using the balanced headphone output. The balanced headphone output doesn't just have more power than the single-ended output. It also has better sound quality and has the sound quality that the amp was designed for. The design of the particular balanced circuit in this amp is such that the balanced output really does sound better and measure better. 

If you get the Liquid Platinum you're also going to need to buy a balanced cable for your LCD-2C. And also buy balanced cables for any other headphones you plan to use with the amp. Always plan on using the balanced headphone output. Put a piece of tape over the 1/4" single-ended output and pretend it isn't even there.


----------



## Marlowe (Apr 13, 2022)

LykkeligLyd said:


> I have LCD-2C and considering this amp. Is it enough power in it to drive the headphones, or do I need an additional amp? I recon balanced xlr is a must if I don’t have a balanced cable.


The LP has ridiculously more power than the LCD-2C needs. But you really shouldn't use it without a balanced XLR cable. Dr. Cavalli, its designer, has stated that the amp is really designed only to be used from its balanced output and while a 6.3mm single ended output is provided as a convenience, the sound quality is inferior to the balanced output. (IIRC, the LP's manual states the same.)


----------



## jonathan c

Not only that - but indiscriminate use of the SE output will trigger the protection circuitry. The white LED will turn red - hopefully not stay red…I never wanted to find out.


----------



## detoxguy

LykkeligLyd said:


> I have LCD-2C and considering this amp. Is it enough power in it to drive the headphones, or do I need an additional amp? I recon balanced xlr is a must if I don’t have a balanced cable.


I loved my LCD-2C with this amp. More than enough power for it. If you are considering this amp you should only be thinking about the balanced output, don’t bother if only using the SE output.


----------



## JackSkully

Do you guys have any recommendations for DACs for the Liquid Platinum. I'm purchasing one and wish to pair them with the hd800s.  

So far I'm leaning towards schiit modi 3e

But don't know how that will affect the sound. 

Also do you guys think the Liquid Platinum and the hd800s is a good pairing


----------



## George Chronis

JackSkully said:


> Do you guys have any recommendations for DACs for the Liquid Platinum. I'm purchasing one and wish to pair them with the hd800s.
> 
> So far I'm leaning towards schiit modi 3e
> 
> ...


As for the DAC, I've had good results with a BF2 and the LP DAC that Monoprice released a couple of months ago. I think the LP DAC is overpriced, but they have some combos that make it better. I've also tried and Ares with it and liked it as well.

I believe the HD800 should pair well with the LP, but I didn't like the HD800 in general for my taste and music I listen to, so I can't really recommend or not recommend the pairing.


----------



## Shane D

JackSkully said:


> Do you guys have any recommendations for DACs for the Liquid Platinum. I'm purchasing one and wish to pair them with the hd800s.
> 
> So far I'm leaning towards schiit modi 3e
> 
> ...


I Really enjoyed my LP with my BF2. I thought it was a great combo.


----------



## HiFiRobot

Hifiman Edition X, Liquid Platinum (Tesla E88CC), SMSL VMV D1se and iFi Zen Stream. The Teslas were $28 and I prefer them over the stock EH6922. But there are better and pricier options which I tend to prefer even more


----------



## cglin222

JackSkully said:


> Do you guys have any recommendations for DACs for the Liquid Platinum. I'm purchasing one and wish to pair them with the hd800s.
> 
> So far I'm leaning towards schiit modi 3e
> 
> ...


recently got a fiio k9 pro ess and used in pre mode to LP, and I like the sound better than using k9 as dac mode
So now I can freely switch between solid state and tube depend on my headphone....


----------



## tenisnut333

Same here.   My LP matches well with the BiFrost 2 DAC, using the XLR connections.


----------



## Schildbrecher

Hi there, 
joined the club with a modded version.

Pre-Amp + DAC: ADI-2 Pro FS R
XLR Connection.

I must admit the sound is pure magic. No need for B/T or EQ from ADI-2 Pro, just magic.


----------



## Alenotta

Schildbrecher said:


> Hi there,
> joined the club with a modded version.
> 
> Pre-Amp + DAC: ADI-2 Pro FS R
> ...


Yeah I did the cap mod and love the default sound. I tried several different NOS tubes and kept ending up with the Gold Lions in there. They are probably going to become increasingly rare now which stinks. Love these tubes. For DAC I use the SMSL m400 which has an AK chip in it (and has a balanced output). Really like that combo. On the warmer side of neutral for sure. The Gold Lions give it a good kick in the low frequencies and resolving top end. I had it paired with Ether 2s which sounded fantastic, but I recently swapped those out for some Meze Empyreans which are incredible on here. I the cable made a big difference with the Meze and this amp. Currently running them with a WyWire Platinum cable which gives them the speed and clarity I think they need with a warmer setup. I know there are better setups out there, but sometimes a track comes on and I'm like hmm I don't know how I'd make this one sound any better lol.


----------



## Schildbrecher

Alenotta said:


> They are probably going to become increasingly rare now which stinks.


Why? What happened to Genalex?


Tomorrow I will receive 8 Bugle Boys... read so much about them. After I used them all... they will be too expensive. Then I will use NOS Soviets from the Cold War.
Those Soviets sound really good. But even more fantastic with a little improvement from ADI-2 PRO FS R (improving Bass via B/T and little bit more clarity through little adjustment via EQ).
ADI-2 PRO FS R as DAC


----------



## Alenotta

Schildbrecher said:


> Why? What happened to Genalex?
> 
> 
> Tomorrow I will receive 8 Bugle Boys... read so much about them. After I used them all... they will be too expensive. Then I will use NOS Soviets from the Cold War.
> ...


Well shipping tubes from Russia isn’t as easy now… I noticed the inventory dried up for a bit and now the price is up.


----------



## Schildbrecher




----------



## chaz_flhr (Aug 31, 2022)

music_man said:


> I am not using the LPS. It does sound better. Staff here unplug/plug stuff every morning. Nothing I can do. I am very pleased with the sound of my system regardless.
> 
> I have an IFI Pro Ican here I am going to return. I think the LP is way better. I keep forgetting that the LP is a $3,000 amp. Usually, things are priced accordingly. That is why every man and his dog wants this one. I was wondering what anyone else thinks about the LP Vs. the Ican? the Ican is $2,250 and I think the LP wipes the floor with it. For one thing I think the design is much nicer to begin with.


While I think the LP is great ( it's one of my downstairs amps ) I do prefer the Ican for both sound and power and once you add in the versatility it offers in sound flavors it's a winner for me but it is over twice the price.


----------



## Bob Ley

Ham Sandwich said:


> The Liquid Platinum has more than enough power for the LCD-2 flavors. I've been using it with a LCD-2 rev 2 from 2011 and also a LCD-2 Classic.
> 
> What you have to keep in mind with this amp is that it is designed as a balanced amp using the balanced headphone output. The balanced headphone output doesn't just have more power than the single-ended output. It also has better sound quality and has the sound quality that the amp was designed for. The design of the particular balanced circuit in this amp is such that the balanced output really does sound better and measure better.
> 
> If you get the Liquid Platinum you're also going to need to buy a balanced cable for your LCD-2C. And also buy balanced cables for any other headphones you plan to use with the amp. Always plan on using the balanced headphone output. Put a piece of tape over the 1/4" single-ended output and pretend it isn't even there.


I was using this adapter on my previous setup with my Xduoo MT-604 since it only has an xlr balanced out for my headphones that terminated in 3.5. I know it's not really balanced but allowed me to use the amp and the K9pro as a preamp resulting in a little more juicier sound. Trying to use that same adapter on the LP, don't know why, but the sound drops out  but comes back after a while. Anyone know why?


----------



## fordski

Bob Ley said:


> I was using this adapter on my previous setup with my Xduoo MT-604 since it only has an xlr balanced out for my headphones that terminated in 3.5. I know it's not really balanced but allowed me to use the amp and the K9pro as a preamp resulting in a little more juicier sound. Trying to use that same adapter on the LP, don't know why, but the sound drops out  but comes back after a while. Anyone know why?


I have a liquid platinum and I wouldn't recommend using the 3.5mm adapter connected to the XLR out. It shorts the right and left ground together and you risk damaging your LP. This depends and the amps topology (true balanced XLR vs XLR out with a common ground only for convenience) I do not know the XLR topology of the LP but I personally would risk it.


----------



## muckyfingers

Bob Ley said:


> I was using this adapter on my previous setup with my Xduoo MT-604 since it only has an xlr balanced out for my headphones that terminated in 3.5. I know it's not really balanced but allowed me to use the amp and the K9pro as a preamp resulting in a little more juicier sound. Trying to use that same adapter on the LP, don't know why, but the sound drops out  but comes back after a while. Anyone know why?


You’re shorting the LP with that adapter and it will result in permanent damage.


----------



## Bob Ley

muckyfingers said:


> You’re shorting the LP with that adapter and it will result in permanent damage.


Thank you!


----------



## Bob Ley

fordski said:


> I have a liquid platinum and I wouldn't recommend using the 3.5mm adapter connected to the XLR out. It shorts the right and left ground together and you risk damaging your LP. This depends and the amps topology (true balanced XLR vs XLR out with a common ground only for convenience) I do not know the XLR topology of the LP but I personally would risk it.


Thank You!


----------



## Bob Ley

cglin222 said:


> recently got a fiio k9 pro ess and used in pre mode to LP, and I like the sound better than using k9 as dac mode
> So now I can freely switch between solid state and tube depend on my headphone....


Trying that out as well as we speak!


----------



## Ham Sandwich

Bob Ley said:


> I was using this adapter on my previous setup with my Xduoo MT-604 since it only has an xlr balanced out for my headphones that terminated in 3.5. I know it's not really balanced but allowed me to use the amp and the K9pro as a preamp resulting in a little more juicier sound. Trying to use that same adapter on the LP, don't know why, but the sound drops out  but comes back after a while. Anyone know why?



 That adapter cable is frightening!

Using that adapter can fry a headphone amp. You can use that adapter with a few amps. But for most balanced headphone amps you cannot use it and it will damage the amp. With some balanced amps that adapter will cause the amp to immediately fry itself (poof! out goes the magic smoke). With other balanced amps the damage will happen gradually. 

The adapter can be used with certain amps and for certain situations. But you have to know ahead of time that the amp or balanced output can be used that way. The people who would know if the adapter can be used are the people who read books about amplifier circuit designs and have soldering stations and measurement gear.

I take the rather extreme view that the balanced to unbalanced headphone cable adapters like that should not be sold to the general public. It's too dangerous unless you know what you're doing and know when exactly it is safe to use. The people who know what they're doing are also the people who have soldering stations and could easily make the adapter themselves if they needed it. So there is no reason to be selling that adapter to the general public. 

One of my fears when I take my headphone gear to meets is that someone at the meet will have that adapter and use it with one of the expensive balanced amps at the meet. There are some $3000+ balanced amps out there that will instantly fry if you use that adapter. Yikes!

The safe thing to do with that adapter is cut it in half so it can never be used again. Then buy balanced headphone cables for all of your headphones.

The adapters that go the other way to allow you to plug a balanced headphone cable into a single-ended output are safe. For example an adapter with a male 1/4" TRS plug to a female 4-pin XLR is safe to use and allows you to use your balanced headphone cables with regular single-ended amps. Those are safe. And I have a few of them.


----------



## Alenotta

Has anyone compared the cap modded liquid platinum to a Chord Hugo TT2? I recently got a Mojo 2 and really love the character of it, but the desktop LP setup still has the edge on holographic airy sound. I'll try to test all the Chord stuff at Can Jam, but I was wondering if someone on here has both.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Alenotta said:


> Has anyone compared the cap modded liquid platinum to a Chord Hugo TT2? I recently got a Mojo 2 and really love the character of it, but the desktop LP setup still has the edge on holographic airy sound. I'll try to test all the Chord stuff at Can Jam, but I was wondering if someone on here has both.


I have both -- you're mostly looking for comparisons of headstage between cap-modded LP and TT2, right?

Honestly, the answer is 'it depends'.  With my Brimar CV-2492 tubes in the LP, comparing sound straight out of mTT2 vs mTT2 ==> LP, the image is pretty close.  Siemens tubes (CCa or E188CC) deliver a warmer/bassier sound, with noticeably less air. Unfortunately, there's no easy way to A/B test, so not a very precise answer.  I can more easily compare TT2 vs LP from other sources, but that's a bit 'apples and kumquats'.


----------



## Alenotta

LCMusicLover said:


> I have both -- you're mostly looking for comparisons of headstage between cap-modded LP and TT2, right?
> 
> Honestly, the answer is 'it depends'.  With my Brimar CV-2492 tubes in the LP, comparing sound straight out of mTT2 vs mTT2 ==> LP, the image is pretty close.  Siemens tubes (CCa or E188CC) deliver a warmer/bassier sound, with noticeably less air. Unfortunately, there's no easy way to A/B test, so not a very precise answer.  I can more easily compare TT2 vs LP from other sources, but that's a bit 'apples and kumquats'.


Yeah I mean I really love the LP sound and I'm just wondering if the TT2 is a big step up or just a fun side grade. The Mojo 2 sound really surprised me and got me more interested in Chord's offerings.


----------



## Moose246

Selling my LP if anyone's interested.

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds...s-amperex-orange-globes-tungsram-e6922.32956/


----------



## mete

This is a great thread, I started reading from the beginning but I still didnt read half, so forgive me if this is a repeat.

There is a benchmark article about balanced headphone amplifiers which says they are not better (than single ended ones) and can even be worse. I wonder your and particularly @runeight s view about it.


----------



## LCMusicLover

mete said:


> This is a great thread, I started reading from the beginning but I still didnt read half, so forgive me if this is a repeat.
> 
> There is a benchmark article about balanced headphone amplifiers which says they are not better (than single ended ones) and can even be worse. I wonder your and particularly @runeight s view about it.


It is accurate to say that there's nothing inherently 'better' about balanced vs single-ended, other than 'more power' and 'longer cable runs'.  It all depends on the design/topology of the amp.

That said, @runeight has made it clear that the Liquid Platinum will sound better from it's balanced output than from single-ended.


----------



## K-Lawn

mete said:


> This is a great thread, I started reading from the beginning but I still didnt read half, so forgive me if this is a repeat.
> 
> There is a benchmark article about balanced headphone amplifiers which says they are not better (than single ended ones) and can even be worse. I wonder your and particularly @runeight s view about it.


The common misconception is technology vs. design. Balanced cables are not better than unbalanced cables in most use cases. However, balanced outputs on balanced amplifiers often are designed to deliver more power than additional unbalanced ports that were added for cable compatibility. This is the case with the Monolith Liquid Platinum. It was designed to be used with the XLR port but you can plug in a single ended if you want to.


----------



## thugnificent

Has anyone tried the Hifiman He6se-v2 on this amp?


----------



## George Chronis

Works great. Plenty of power. I use it regularly. Good synergy as well.


----------



## dstarr3

I've tried it. I think it's a synergy thing more than anything else, I think I'm finding that I just don't like the planars-on-tubes sound. I love my LP with a lot of my dynamics, but with the HE6se V2 it sounded like someone smeared vaseline all over the music. I'm not a fan of my T50rp Argon on the LP, either, so I this might just be a Me thing.


----------



## George Chronis

dstarr3 said:


> I've tried it. I think it's a synergy thing more than anything else, I think I'm finding that I just don't like the planars-on-tubes sound. I love my LP with a lot of my dynamics, but with the HE6se V2 it sounded like someone smeared vaseline all over the music. I'm not a fan of my T50rp Argon on the LP, either, so I this might just be a Me thing.


I have to agree that I like it more on my MJ2 (both that and the LP considered to be hybrids and not pure SS or tube). I still like it on the LP though, using the Cavali DAC and Telefunken E188CC. I have not tried these on a pure SS amp, but they are power hungry, so a typical tube amp would probably be inferior to a typical SS amp just because of that.


----------



## LCMusicLover

thugnificent said:


> Has anyone tried the Hifiman He6se-v2 on this amp?


Not the v2, no.  But with the original 6se I found it needed 'most' of the balanced output -- not significant headroom, but 'enough'.


----------



## thugnificent

dstarr3 said:


> I've tried it. I think it's a synergy thing more than anything else, I think I'm finding that I just don't like the planars-on-tubes sound. I love my LP with a lot of my dynamics, but with the HE6se V2 it sounded like someone smeared vaseline all over the music. I'm not a fan of my T50rp Argon on the LP, either, so I this might just be a Me thing.


Hmm, that's a little different from what I read. I read this amp is suppose to work well with planars. Good to know thanks!


----------



## dstarr3

thugnificent said:


> Hmm, that's a little different from what I read. I read this amp is suppose to work well with planars. Good to know thanks!


Well, that is its main design intent. Traditional tube amps work best with high-ohm loads, whereas hybrids like the LP work best with low-ohm loads. My main point isn't that I don't think the amp is good, because I really do think it's great, definitely love the amp with a lot of dynamics. My main point is just that I think it turns out that I personally don't like the planars-on-tubes sound, and that personal preference might be the main reason I didn't like the HE6 on my LP, as opposed to any actual shortcoming on the amp's part. 

I think the reputation the HE6 has about being super extremely difficult to drive and needing 10,000,000 megawatts per channel to sound good, I think that's all severely overblown. It definitely does benefit from above-average power sources, but stuff like the LP is above average in that regard and is perfectly capable of adequately powering an HE6, and it's entirely likely that the LP was designed with synergizing with headphones like the HE6 as a design goal. It just turns out that the planars-on-tubes sound is a pretty unique one and it turned out to be a sound I wasn't too keen on. 

Food for thought is all.


----------



## LCMusicLover

thugnificent said:


> Hmm, that's a little different from what I read. I read this amp is suppose to work well with planars. Good to know thanks!


My ears say LP pairs very well w/ Ether 2, HEK (v2 & se) as well as RAD-O & Hedd. In fact, it’s my favorite amp w/ Ether 2 w/ Brimar CV-2492 tubes. Also great with RAD-0 w/ Siemens CCa tubes.


dstarr3 said:


> … I think the reputation the HE6 has about being super extremely difficult to drive and needing 10,000,000 megawatts per channel to sound good, I think that's all severely overblown. It definitely does benefit from above-average power sources, but stuff like the LP is above average in that regard and is perfectly capable of adequately powering an HE6, and it's entirely likely that the LP was designed with synergizing with headphones like the HE6 as a design goal …


Yes, even 10 megawatts would be an exaggeration, but as you say, it does require above-average power, and LP does have enough, although I would not say ‘more than enough’. By comparison, my DSHA-3F didn’t have quite enough, and my Audio-gd Master 11 had ‘more than enough’.


----------



## MacMan31

ksorota said:


> Size comparison with ALps RK27 and early test setup.  Lots of work to go from stock to new...one of the reason we stopped at three units completed.



Sorry to bring up an old post. I came here from an ad on CAM as the person a few post before this is selling their liquid platinum amp with the upgrades. I'm just curious why there seems to be an extra knob to the right of the volume knob in the first photo.


----------



## Marlowe (Oct 13, 2022)

Deleted.


----------



## ksorota

MacMan31 said:


> Sorry to bring up an old post. I came here from an ad on CAM as the person a few post before this is selling their liquid platinum amp with the upgrades. I'm just curious why there seems to be an extra knob to the right of the volume knob in the first photo.


That was simply for size comparison. I swapped out the stock attenuator with the rk27 (larger blue volume pot). Was a bit of a pain to do, but worked great and sounded great. I would not do it again though! 

The wiring of the second picture goes to the original solder points on the board. So part of the swap involved changing the front plate.


----------



## mete

I enjoy LP very much (mostly with Focal Clear, but I also own Arya). I do like to have two options (or max 3) to remove the effect of being accustomed to, like digital and analog (tt) sources, dynamic and planar hps. I wonder what could be a pure tube or pure SS option next to LP, also what would be an upgrade to LP ? I am looking at amps like iha-6, taurus, bha-1, gs-x mini, aurium.


----------



## tyk103

I'm looking into getting tubes for my Focal Clear and HD6XX, so I was looking at the Liquid Platinum...but how much of an improvement is the LP over the MCTH? I'm also thinking of going full tubes like the Feliks Audio Echo II.


----------



## dstarr3

tyk103 said:


> I'm looking into getting tubes for my Focal Clear and HD6XX, so I was looking at the Liquid Platinum...but how much of an improvement is the LP over the MCTH? I'm also thinking of going full tubes like the Feliks Audio Echo II.


I don't know about the Clear, but if you're looking for a tube amp for your 6XX, the Bottlehead Crack is the best way to go, unless you are prepared to spend Feliks Audio money.


----------



## LCMusicLover

mete said:


> I enjoy LP very much (mostly with Focal Clear, but I also own Arya). I do like to have two options (or max 3) to remove the effect of being accustomed to, like digital and analog (tt) sources, dynamic and planar hps. I wonder what could be a pure tube or pure SS option next to LP, also what would be an upgrade to LP ? I am looking at amps like iha-6, taurus, bha-1, gs-x mini, aurium.


I owned the LP and BHA-1 simultaneously.

I either didn't have a preference, or preferred the LP for every can I owned at that time (Auteur, Utopia, 6xx, Ether 2, HEKv2, Empyrean). Note that, except for the Empyrean (for which I had no amp preference), those are all pretty 'referency'/neutral/analytical headphones, so I was probably enjoying the bit of 'dampness' the LP brought. Nothing 'wrong' with the BHA-1, and it has lots of power and features. 

But I sold my BHA-1 without regret.  Part of that was 'too much equipment' -- LP, TT2, Audio-gd Master 11, at the time, and a DSHA-3F on order. Plus, I guess I like the Cavalli sound -- now own a Liquid Gold X as well.

But there was also the fact that I probably hear as much or more sound signature difference from tube swaps in the LP than I hear when changing amps being driven out of the same upstream chain.  For example, I own a set of HEKse now (traded up from v2) and I can really get to the airy/ethereal sound they produce when driving them with my LP loaded with my Brimar CV-2492 tubes. Conversely, when loaded up with my Siemens CCa tubes, the LP into my ZMFs produce all the power and impact I might hope for.

Also, listening to my 6xx from the LP is the first time I 'got' these headphones.  Before that (from V280 and BHA-1) I had thought that _...and they don't do anything badly ... _was a bit of 'damning with faint praise', but also accurate.  From the LP, I appreciated them a lot more.  Do wish I could have gotten the 'no veil' effect from the Brimars and the 'powerful bass' effect from the Siemens tubes at the same time. But alas ...

Bottom line, to my ears, the BHA-1 sits squarely in the middle of the sound gamut the LP can produce with various tubes, so I really doubt you can get the 'different sound change-up' effect you're looking for.

DSHA-3F is a 'cut above' but at more than 3 times the price (even considering tube costs) I'd be the first to admit that it's not very cost-effective.


----------



## NovaFlyer

tyk103 said:


> I'm looking into getting tubes for my Focal Clear and HD6XX, so I was looking at the Liquid Platinum...but how much of an improvement is the LP over the MCTH? I'm also thinking of going full tubes like the Feliks Audio Echo II.


I have the Feliks Echo and love it.  I mainly use ZMF Verite Opens, but on occasion use my HD6XX - just can't go wrong with that setup as an entry into tube amps.  Good luck on your decision and enjoy.


----------



## tyk103

NovaFlyer said:


> I have the Feliks Echo and love it.  I mainly use ZMF Verite Opens, but on occasion use my HD6XX - just can't go wrong with that setup as an entry into tube amps.  Good luck on your decision and enjoy.


I'm actually looking to pick up a pair of Aeolus in the future, so I'm tube hunting now haha.

I'm also local too in Ashburn!


----------



## LCMusicLover

NovaFlyer said:


> I have the Feliks Echo and love it.  I mainly use ZMF Verite Opens ...





tyk103 said:


> I'm actually looking to pick up a pair of Aeolus in the future, so I'm tube hunting now haha ...


And this is why I continue to teeter on the brink of the tube abyss -- for my Auteur and Atrium.


----------



## tyk103

LCMusicLover said:


> And this is why I continue to teeter on the brink of the tube abyss -- for my Auteur and Atrium.


Ugh too many options.

From Schiit Valhalla on the low end, to the Feliks Echo II or Liquid Plats on the high end, or full send to the Folkvangr for sub $2K.


----------



## mete

LCMusicLover said:


> I owned the LP and BHA-1 simultaneously.
> 
> I either didn't have a preference, or preferred the LP for every can I owned at that time (Auteur, Utopia, 6xx, Ether 2, HEKv2, Empyrean). Note that, except for the Empyrean (for which I had no amp preference), those are all pretty 'referency'/neutral/analytical headphones, so I was probably enjoying the bit of 'dampness' the LP brought. Nothing 'wrong' with the BHA-1, and it has lots of power and features.
> 
> ...


Many thanks for the detailed info, very helpful for BHA-1. Do you know how Pathos Aurium compares to LP ? Both are hybrids based on same tubes, should I assume they are very similar ? Would Aurium have any significant positive aspect over LP ? I am trying to understand to what level I should look to when I would like to upgrade LP.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Sorry, haven't heard that amp, so can't assist.


----------



## jonathan c (Nov 11, 2022)

After a prolonged ‘sabbatical’, a LP is back in the headphone amplifier rotation. The LP is ‘stock’ - no aftermarket LPS, no capacitor modifications - currently sporting Tungsram E88CCs. Ear-openingly musical ! Great extension ! Wide soundstage ! Satisfying detail !


 [Tubes to be used will also include: Brimar CV2492s, Philips BEL ECC88s, Telefunken E88CCs….plus 12AT7s / ECC81s with adapters.]


----------



## YtseJamer

jonathan c said:


> After a prolonged ‘sabbatical’, the LP is in the headphone amplifier rotation. The LP is ‘stock’ - no aftermarket LPS, no capacitor modifications - currently sporting Tungsram E88CCs. Ear-openingly musical ! Great extension ! Wide soundstage !  [Tubes to be used will also include: Brimar 2492s, Philips BEL ECC88s, Telefunken E88CCs….plus 12AT7s / ECC81s with adapters.]



Nice, I miss my LP.   It was my favorite amp with the Aeolus.


----------



## jonathan c

YtseJamer said:


> Nice, I miss my LP.   It was my favorite amp with the Aeolus.


I like that you fit / match the amp with the headphone rather than _vice versa. 😀_


----------



## YtseJamer

jonathan c said:


> I like that you fit / match the amp with the headphone rather than _vice versa. 😀_



Yes 

I'm almost tempted to buy another LP to try it with the Caldera.


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## jonathan c

I just bought mine: sale on Monoprice / Monolith at 499.99. (I had two before but sold those towards current Woos WA2 / WA6). I should not have let LP go. But that was then !


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## Jimmyblues1959

jonathan c said:


> I just bought mine: sale on Monoprice / Monolith at 499.99. (I had two before but sold those towards current Woos WA2 / WA6). I should not have let LP go. But that was then !


Bought my LP on sale a few years back during the holidays for $399.99. With tax and free shipping it came out to around $434 delivered.
IMHO the LP is a terrific all around headphone amplifier that synergizes well with most headphones.  It's a keeper! 😊


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## Shane D

jonathan c said:


> After a prolonged ‘sabbatical’, the LP is back in the headphone amplifier rotation. The LP is ‘stock’ - no aftermarket LPS, no capacitor modifications - currently sporting Tungsram E88CCs. Ear-openingly musical ! Great extension ! Wide soundstage ! Satisfying detail ! [Tubes to be used will also include: Brimar 2492s, Philips BEL ECC88s, Telefunken E88CCs….plus 12AT7s / ECC81s with adapters.]


I loved my LP, but that high gain was a pain in the ass with almost all my headphones being very efficient.
The Focals did sound so beautiful out of it. Do you use your Clears with it much?


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## mete

Shane D said:


> I loved my LP, but that high gain was a pain in the ass with almost all my headphones being very efficient.
> The Focals did sound so beautiful out of it. Do you use your Clears with it much?


I bought a 2nd LP yesterday, and I am bidding on a 2nd Focal Clear. It sounds so good to me LP+Clear.


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## jonathan c

Shane D said:


> I loved my LP, but that high gain was a pain in the ass with almost all my headphones being very efficient.
> The Focals did sound so beautiful out of it. Do you use your Clears with it much?


I did before. I just bought a new LP which arrived this morning. On headphones like Audeze LCD-X and Focal Clear OG, I can use volume up to almost “twelve o’clock”. With LP, almost two years ago, with those headphones, “nine o’clock” was the limit. While the LP gain is still specified at 5x, perhaps the pot has been improved 🤞. Or I have really lost hearing 😳!


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## Shane D

jonathan c said:


> I did before. I just bought a new LP which arrived this morning. On headphones like Audeze LCD-X and Focal Clear OG, I can use volume up to almost “twelve o’clock”. With LP, almost two years ago, with those headphones, “nine o’clock” was the limit. While the LP gain is still specified at 5x, perhaps the pot has been improved 🤞. Or I have really lost hearing 😳!


Yeah, I don't think I ever got anything to 12:00 on my LP, except the HiFiman HE6se V2's, which just made it past 2:00.

I am going to sell an amp or two in the next month and I think I might then pull the Liquid Spark back from the office. It has been there for well over a year and might be a nice surprise.


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## Marlowe

jonathan c said:


> I did before. I just bought a new LP which arrived this morning. On headphones like Audeze LCD-X and Focal Clear OG, I can use volume up to almost “twelve o’clock”. With LP, almost two years ago, with those headphones, “nine o’clock” was the limit. While the LP gain is still specified at 5x, perhaps the pot has been improved 🤞. Or I have really lost hearing 😳!


I like it loud (of course, that's subjective) and I'm generally between 10 and 11 o'clock on the LP with the ZMF Aeolus and Hifiman Arya Stealth. I never get up to 12.


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## jonathan c

Shane D said:


> Yeah, I don't think I ever got anything to 12:00 on my LP, except the HiFiman HE6se V2's, which just made it past 2:00.
> 
> I am going to sell an amp or two in the next month and I think I might then pull the Liquid Spark back from the office. It has been there for well over a year and might be a nice surprise.


It’s always fun to put an amp / a headphone ‘on the court’ from ‘off the bench’. Rediscovery !


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## jonathan c

The Liquid Platinum (now with Valvo E88CCs) + Focal Clear OG (with Dekoni fenestrated sheepskin earpads) = 🎼 😊 🎵… ☁️☁️


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## ksorota

jonathan c said:


> The Liquid Platinum (now with Valvo E88CCs) + Focal Clear OG (with Dekoni fenestrated sheepskin earpads) = 🎼 😊 🎵… ☁️☁️


Time for a cap mod upgrade!


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## jonathan c

If I do anything, it will be LPS-36 external linear power supply 😀.


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## sjssusma

My favorite tubes on these so far are the phillips miniwatt sq e866 from  1969
​


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## jonathan c

sjssusma said:


> My favorite tubes on these so far are the phillips miniwatt sq e866 from  1969
> ​


Do you mean E88CC, ECC88…?🤔


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## LCMusicLover

From the deals discussion thread in case any lurkers are interested in a deal on this amp.


KG Jag said:


> Monoprice (most of) site wide sale: 15% off with "BF15" coupon code.
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/


Just confirmed this code works for Liquid Platinum (amp or DAC).

Sale priced @ $499.99 each, less 15% ==> final price $424.99

Pretty darn good deal.

Too bad they didn't mark Liquid Gold X down to $499 -- sale priced @$699, so final price is $594.99


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## JoshG1217

Hey guys

Mine arrives Friday. Any recs for tubes for he6se v2 that give some warmth without sacrificing clarity?


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## JoshG1217

So go these today: https://tubedepot.com/products/jj-e...7UYfyGPbb5zwTW6WbK3OsxWG-1d4ZnCcaAgwsEALw_wcB

To be frank, I'm not sure I could tell any difference from stock. Do they sound good? Yeah. Are they noticeably different from stock? Not that I can tell but an A/B test isn't easy. I had to use a wrench and a cloth to get the other tubes out. Idk. I like the LP overall. Just feels slightly more musical than my Ho200.


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## skeeb23

I just got my LP a few days ago to pair up with RME ADI2DACFS.  Instantly I've fallen in love with the sound through the Focal Radiance!  

Unfortunately though, I do have a problem I had to reach out to Monoprice about.  

So I have both the XLR and RCA inputs connected to my ADI2DAC.  I figured, why not.  With the LP, it is my understanding that the button on the far right is to switch between those two inputs.  Pressed in = RCA and out = XLR.  I am listening to my Radiance via XLR balanced as I've heard that is the preferred way to listen on the LP.  Ok, no problems there.

The issue is when I depress the button to listen through the XLR I am getting a slight channel imbalance on the left channel.  I even sometimes hear slight distortion out of the left.  When I press the button in everything instantly sounds correct.  My problem is doing that is only using the RCA inputs.  To me, you would think the XLR inputs would be the purest way and I am sure most would do the same if they have the option to run those out of a balanced DAC.  Now, to troubleshoot here is what I have done:
-  I have left the tubes on for 20+ hours now for burn-in. 
-  I switched my XLR cables around so my left was now right and the other way around to see if that imbalance switched to the right (thinking it was a bad cable).  

Neither resolved the issue.  I even tried different headphones, no problem.  I hate to RMA the LP over this when I know I can just use the RCA all the time, but that is basically making 50% of the AMP useless to me.  

Has anyone run into this kind of issue either through this amp or another?  I love the sound and QC issues can happen with anything, so I'm not down on Monoprice for it, just unfortunate.


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## PopDV (Dec 6, 2022)

Jimmyblues1959 said:


> Bought my LP on sale a few years back during the holidays for $399.99. With tax and free shipping it came out to around $434 delivered.


Just come to the "club". Missed discount sales. When I can expect for new one?
PS discount came back today!


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## ksorota

skeeb23 said:


> I just got my LP a few days ago to pair up with RME ADI2DACFS.  Instantly I've fallen in love with the sound through the Focal Radiance!
> 
> Unfortunately though, I do have a problem I had to reach out to Monoprice about.
> 
> ...



Can you confirm that you are unplugging the RCA inputs and outputs from your DAC to the LP?  Is the imbalance still present when no RCA's are connected? 

If channel imbalance is present at all times with the XLR connectors then its either the DAC or the Amp, but my money would be on the LP and you should just send it in for replacement.  Do you have any way to check the XLR out of the DAC (ie. another balanced amp or a volt meter)? 

Monoprice is great for warranty claims and will get you another one quick if you initiate the return.  

Perhaps its a hassle to RMA, but you def. want to have a fully working unit from the jump especially if you ever are going to sell it to someone else.


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## skeeb23

ksorota said:


> Can you confirm that you are unplugging the RCA inputs and outputs from your DAC to the LP?  Is the imbalance still present when no RCA's are connected?
> 
> If channel imbalance is present at all times with the XLR connectors then its either the DAC or the Amp, but my money would be on the LP and you should just send it in for replacement.  Do you have any way to check the XLR out of the DAC (ie. another balanced amp or a volt meter)?
> 
> ...


I had my Jotunheim 2 going into my ADI2DAC balanced and never an issue.  So I'm guessing it is the LP.  I did unplug RCA and yes the imbalance is present.  I've initiated the RMA with monoprice.  Hopefully that will resolve it all.


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## jonathan c (Dec 5, 2022)

Perhaps, it is the specific LP unit. When it or a replacement returns, use only the rear XLR plugs and cover the rear RCA plugs with these:   


 [Cardas Audio RCA caps. I use these on _all _unused rear RCA plugs: this includes CD transport, DAC, headphone amplifiers.]


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## skeeb23

jonathan c said:


> Perhaps, it is the specific LP unit. When it or a replacement returns, use only the rear XLR plugs and cover the rear RCA plugs with these:    [Cardas Audio RCA caps. I use these on _all _unused rear RCA plugs: this includes CD transport, DAC, headphone amplifiers.]


Well, fingers crossed but after getting home tonight I fired up the LP and suddenly now my XLR inputs are perfectly balanced.  I switch between RCA/XLR and get no difference in sound output!  
I know there is a such thing as tube burn-in so perhaps that was all I needed, was time.  Still its something I am learning as I go because I thought if it was burn-in then the RCA would have had the same imbalance.  
Learn new things everyday.  I'm not out of the water yet...as for now it is working great.


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## PopDV (Dec 6, 2022)

What's your recommendation for balanced cable for Sennheiser HD600 with MLP tube amp?


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## jonathan c

PopDV said:


> What's your recommendation for balanced cable for Sennheiser HD600 with MLP tube amp?


What is your money limit? (I use Forza Audio Works Noir Hybrid: XLR for HD600: ~ $285 USD).


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## jonathan c

MLP (Cavalli) with LPS-36 (external linear power supply: 36V, 1.5A specific to MLP). Headphones are Audeze LCD-X (2016).


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## PopDV

jonathan c said:


> What is your money limit? (I use Forza Audio Works Noir Hybrid: XLR for HD600: ~ $285 USD).


100-150$. Could pay more but really not sure if I will hear big difference. What do u think with your experience?


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## jonathan c

PopDV said:


> 100-150$. Could pay more but really not sure if I will hear big difference. What do u think with your experience?


You can also check out Custom Cans UK (website: jfunk.org). Their ultra low  capacitance headphone cables are sonically excellent and are flexible. I use the SE version;  XLR amplifier termination is available, too.


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## JoshG1217

If anyone is interested, selling my 2 week old LP with Gold Lion Tubes and XLR to 4.4 adapter for $450. I have the matching LP DAC as well.


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## mete

I have 2 LP amps and also have the caps for the cap mod. Is it worth or better to keep it as it is and use different tubes ? I dont have any concern about soldering and voiding the warranty.


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## jonathan c (Dec 20, 2022)

mete said:


> I have 2 LP amps and also have the caps for the cap mod. Is it worth or better to keep it as it is and use different tubes ? I dont have any concern about soldering and voiding the warranty.


•  At one point, I owned both ‘stock-cap’ LP and ‘mod-cap’ LP. The ‘mod-cap’ certainly had ‘quicker’ transients but also ‘quicker’ decay than did the ‘stock-cap’. I also heard the ‘liquidity’ from tubes more in the ‘stock-cap’. That liquidity was not huge since the LP has ss output stage. Over time, I sold both LPs.
•  I once again own a LP. This time, with stock capacitors but with an external linear power supply - specified to 36V, 1.5A: the same as the stock switching mode power supply. The external LPS really adds clarity, dynamics, and heft to the LP sound. Add to that, NOS tubes such as: Mullard E88CC, Philips BEL ECC88, Sylvania 7308, Valvo E88CC….🎼🎶☁️☁️🌈🌈.


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## MikeO3

jonathan c said:


> I also heard the ‘liquidity’ from tubes more in the ‘stock-cap’. That liquidity was not huge since the LP has ss output stage.


What is the meaning of _liquidity _in reference to an audio quality? Please explain what this represents.


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## XERO1 (Dec 20, 2022)

I would describe an amplifier that has a high level of 'liquidity' in its sound signature as an amp that adds little to no audible harshness, brightness or any unpleasant sonic artifacts to the music. It's honestly very hard to describe. It's kind of one of those things that you actually have to hear for yourself to know what it is. I used to own a Quicksilver Headphone Amp that's a transformer-coupled tube amp, and while it wasn't the best in every category, its sense of 'liquidity' was fantastic. It was like you were hearing the tone and texture of the music without any kind of coloration added to it. But 'liquidity' is not only limited to tube amps. The best amp I've heard so far is the solid-state Enleum AMP-23R, and it had every bit of liquidity that the Quicksilver tube amp had. Unfortunately, it costs a small fortune. But the best usually does!


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## jonathan c

MikeO3 said:


> What is the meaning of _liquidity _in reference to an audio quality? Please explain what this represents.


_For me: _liquidity in audio means a seamless, texturally uniform presentation of music - without granularity, grit. Transients should be crisp but clear, note / chord decay should be not truncated. When liquidity is present in an audio component presentation, ambience, reverberation, soundstage dimensions are more discernible: all of which leads to a heightened realism in the _illusion_ that is music reproduction.


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## jonathan c

XERO1 said:


> I would describe an amplifier that has a high level of 'liquidity' in its sound signature as an amp that adds little to no audible harshness, brightness or any unpleasant sonic artifacts to the music. It's honestly very hard to describe. It's kind of one of those things that you actually have to hear for yourself to know what it is. I used to own a Quicksilver Headphone Amp that's a transformer-coupled tube amp, and while it wasn't the best in every category, its sense of 'liquidity' was fantastic. It was like you were hearing the tone and texture of the music without any kind of coloration added to it. But 'liquidity' is not only limited to tube amps. The best amp I've heard so far is the solid-state Enleum AMP-23R, and it had every bit of liquidity that the Quicksilver tube amp had. Unfortunately, it costs a small fortune^^. But the best usually does!


^^ which would contribute mightily to the _illiquidity _💸 of your wallet…🤷🏻‍♂️🤣.


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## XERO1

Also, I was able to compare the Quicksilver amp and the Liquid Platinum side-by-side, and when using the LP's balanced out, I thought the LP came _*very*_ close to equaling the Quicksilver's level of liquidity.


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## jonathan c

With NOS Mullard E88CC (no adapter), LP is _exquisite _in driving the modified Sennheiser HD-6XX…


 ☺️


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## jonathan c

I have no qualms about driving ZMF Verite Open with the LP. In fact, it is a rather outstanding duet. 

[Tubes: NOS Mullard E88CC]


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