# Schiit Valhalla Tube Rolling thread.



## Mr.Tom

Hi all, I dont see a Valhalla rolling thread, so why not start one.
   
  I'm new to this Schiit brand, as I've only had a Valhalla for a week. I came from an MF XcanV3, that I liked very much. I'm not a FOTM sort of buyer, as I used the Xcan for the last 8 years. One of the things I needed in a new amp, was compatibility with my somewhat large pile of tubes. The Xcan used 6dj8's and I got a larger PSU so I could also roll in 6n1p types. The Val also will use these tubes.
   
  First thing I did when I received the Val, was to roll out the input tubes to a higher grade of tube, a 6n1p-eb. After a couple of hours, I could tell these were not to my liking. They were very forward, fast and a little cold. I tried a few others and finally found a sweet spot.
   
  So Schiit was not far off in there choice of the 6n1p. I found a higher grade in my pile, but not high enough to get a eb stamp. But man do they sound sweet and focused. They are a Rocket plant from 1971 with gold grids and rhodium plated pins.


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## schaaf

Cool Beans Mr. Tom.
   
  I was wondering when this was going to happen. 
   
  I get my Valhalla on Thursday and I'm sure it won't be long before I decide to pick up some different tubes to roll. 
   
  Do you think that the tubes in the Lyr rolling thread would carry over to the Valhalla with any of the same descriptions?  I've never had a tube amp before, so I'm not really sure how the differences in the amps would effect the sound signature of the tubes.
   
  So, assuming that the Lyr and Valhalla are completely different in which tubes they like, what would be a starting point for someone new to tubes or rolling? (As far as picking out a set of tubes to start with.)
   
  Also, I know (or THINK I know...) that the tubes in the back are the "power" tubes, and you can roll them, but you don't need to change them at the same time as the front..... right?
   
  - what's an eb stamp?
   
   
   
  S-


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## paradoxper

Quote: 





schaaf said:


> Cool Beans Mr. Tom.
> 
> I was wondering when this was going to happen.
> 
> ...


 
  You can roll with same tubes as some of the Lyr's. However preference always plays the biggest role in how you'll like them
  Meaning..don't just assume because 1 tube is highly talked about or recommended that you'll end up liking it. Just like in anything audio. Gotta try it
  to learn your preferences.
   
  As far as advice on tube rolling, if ignorance is bliss and you'd like to save some change in your wallet. Start with cheaper 
  tubes, and work your way up. You might find a nice little tube suites you well, which will allow you to focus on the music and less about gear.
  If only some us could do the same. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  As far as the power tubes go, they'll yield "more subtle" changes/results. So it's best you focus on the input tubes first.
   
  Enjoy the journey as it can get to draining your wallet. Extremely fun though. I'm hoping this thread will grow as did the Lyr's.


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## Mr.Tom

I'm going to guess, no, as the Lyr is a SS/tube mix. Also, who knows if Schiit made the bias the same on both models.
   
  Give the amp a couple of days of run-in, as the sound has major change from cold/new to 48 hours of running. I started tube roll the first day and ended up full circle, and finally settling on the 6n1p's. 
   
  The EB stamp is a higher grade of tube. 5000 hr rating instead of 3000. Thicker glass, thicker plates and more vibration proof. I think the grid Resistance is much lower, and its like 10 times more shock proof.
   
  Quote: 





schaaf said:


> Cool Beans Mr. Tom.
> 
> I was wondering when this was going to happen.
> 
> ...


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## imackler

I'd love to hear your description of how it sounds with the included tubes. It would add more as you try out other tubes!


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## schaaf

Yeah, I'm excited to get it. It'll be my first tube amp, so it should be interesting. 
  I'm not sure I'm the greatest at describing what I'm hearing, but I'll do my best. I saw some Philips Orange Labels on the FST forum for about 100. It seemed like a good deal, but I think I'm going to try to start a little cheaper before I move up to tubes in that price range. 
   
  Anyone have a good "starter tube" they'd like to recommend / know more about in comparison to the stock tubes? (under lets say.... 45 a pair?)
   
   
  S-


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## Mr.Tom

Quote: 





imackler said:


> I'd love to hear your description of how it sounds with the included tubes. It would add more as you try out other tubes!


 
  I really have a hard time putting into words, what I'm hearing. I'm pretty simple in the sense that I roll the tubes, give them a few hours, and if the make me smile there good.
   
  I could do better but it will take time to adapt the the sonic character of each tube.
   
   
  Quote: 





schaaf said:


> Yeah, I'm excited to get it. It'll be my first tube amp, so it should be interesting.
> I'm not sure I'm the greatest at describing what I'm hearing, but I'll do my best. I saw some Philips Orange Labels on the FST forum for about 100. It seemed like a good deal, but I think I'm going to try to start a little cheaper before I move up to tubes in that price range.
> 
> Anyone have a good "starter tube" they'd like to recommend / know more about in comparison to the stock tubes? (under lets say.... 45 a pair?)
> ...


 
   
  I myself would not buy a $300. amp and start dropping $100. on crazy NOS tubes! The Russian's made the best tubes(IMO). I did the whole NOS american tubes thing in the 80's, and wasted a lot of money.
   
  It was in early 2000 that I started buying Russian tubes off Ebay, and finding them to sound everybit as good as my old collection of US tubes. So I made a bunch of money selling off all of those old domestic tubes(thank God).
   
  Dont get me wrong! If tubes had a 10,000. hour life, I say go for it and drop $100. on a pair. But they only last about 6 months, if your a daily user of your gear(I leave my gear on 24/7).
   
  The whole tube rolling thing is a bit of a mental disorder(IMO), but if you can moderate the hobby, it can be fun with few to no regrets.


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## Mr.Tom

Also, right now I'm a Pig in Schiit, as my Bifrost just arrived.


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## schaaf

Yeah, I don't think I'm going to go crazy.... but since the whole tube amp, rolling thing is new to me I definitely wanted to get some tubes and check it out. See for myself how the sound changes 
  based on the tubes rolled. 
   
   
  S-


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## Mr.Tom

Quote: 





schaaf said:


> Yeah, I don't think I'm going to go crazy.... but since the whole tube amp, rolling thing is new to me I definitely wanted to get some tubes and check it out. See for myself how the sound changes
> based on the tubes rolled.
> 
> 
> S-


 
  If you cant find what you like in domestic stuff, let me know and I'll make you a care package of some Russian tubes.


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## paradoxper

Quote: 





schaaf said:


> Yeah, I don't think I'm going to go crazy.... but since the whole tube amp, rolling thing is new to me I definitely wanted to get some tubes and check it out. See for myself how the sound changes
> based on the tubes rolled.
> 
> 
> S-


 
  I'd take Tom's advice, take your tube rolling slow and spend cheap. The Valhalla isn't going to be near as dynamic with tube rolling and results
  as Lyr. So you'd probably be best not spending $100 on tubes. But..I'd be fantastically interested in someone throwing some Siemen's in 'em for a test run.


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## schaaf

I only have about 10 hours on it so far, but man it's (bare with me here) bright? Shrill? The highs are ear piercing. It's very fatiguing. I can only listen to it for about an hour or two at a time. Any time there are S's or prolonged cymbals, it's like getting stabbed in the eardrum with a thousand tiny knives of pain. 
   
  I hope things start to even out and calm down, because I'm not really enjoying it all that much right now. 
   
   
  S-


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## Mr.Tom

Quote: 





schaaf said:


> I only have about 10 hours on it so far, but man it's (bare with me here) bright? Shrill? The highs are ear piercing. It's very fatiguing. I can only listen to it for about an hour or two at a time. Any time there are S's or prolonged cymbals, it's like getting stabbed in the eardrum with a thousand tiny knives of pain.
> 
> I hope things start to even out and calm down, because I'm not really enjoying it all that much right now.
> 
> ...


 
  It's hard to believe that a 100% tube amp could do these things, unless it's your source?or Cans? But mine really came into it's own on the third day, as it got very tubey without losing any attack.


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## paradoxper

Quote: 





mr.tom said:


> It's hard to believe that a 100% tube amp could do these things, unless it's your source?or Cans? But mine really came into it's own on the third day, as it got very tubey without losing any attack.


 
  Agreed with Tom again. And it could always be your music.


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## mikek200

Quote: 





mr.tom said:


> Hi all, I dont see a Valhalla rolling thread, so why not start one.
> 
> I'm new to this Schiit brand, as I've only had a Valhalla for a week. I came from an MF XcanV3, that I liked very much. I'm not a FOTM sort of buyer, as I used the Xcan for the last 8 years. One of the things I needed in a new amp, was compatibility with my somewhat large pile of tubes. The Xcan used 6dj8's and I got a larger PSU so I could also roll in 6n1p types. The Val also will use these tubes.
> 
> ...


 
   
  You might want to give these a try...I've been using them on my Lyr/bifrost combo.
  Some guys love-em..some guys-well you know?
  Also,This is a good seller,bought , a few pairs from him.
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/280838950356?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_2578wt_1396


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## paradoxper

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> You might want to give these a try...I've been using them on my Lyr/bifrost combo.
> Some guys love-em..some guys-well you know?
> Also,This is a good seller,bought , a few pairs from him.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/280838950356?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_2578wt_1396


 
  Nope, those tubes aren't compatible with Valhalla.


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## mikek200

Thanks for the correction ,Paradoxper.
   
  Sorry ..MrTom


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## schaaf

All my music with the exception of maybe 20% of it is lossless. It's running right into the amp. I dont have a DAC yet. 

Yes. It sounds better thru the amp, but straight out of the Mac they're not as bright. Just more... muffled and less powerful/impactful. 

I'll stick with it, but I hope they start to mellow out. 


S-


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## paradoxper

Quote: 





schaaf said:


> All my music with the exception of maybe 20% of it is lossless. It's running right into the amp. I dont have a DAC yet.
> Yes. It sounds better thru the amp, but straight out of the Mac they're not as bright. Just more... muffled and less powerful/impactful.
> I'll stick with it, but I hope they start to mellow out.
> S-


 
  And with what headphones are you using?


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## schaaf

HD650's


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## Mr.Tom

Quote: 





schaaf said:


> All my music with the exception of maybe 20% of it is lossless. It's running right into the amp. I dont have a DAC yet.
> Yes. It sounds better thru the amp, but straight out of the Mac they're not as bright. Just more... muffled and less powerful/impactful.
> I'll stick with it, but I hope they start to mellow out.
> S-


 
  The D2A chip in the mac is not high end, or even close. I suspect what your hearing is amplified noise from the mac.
   
  One thing I've learned about the Valhalla(maybe all OTL amps), is that it reproduces everything. I only figured that out when I went from a Zero dac to the Bifrost dac, as some of the harshness I was hearing was the Zero dac.


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## paradoxper

Quote: 





schaaf said:


> HD650's


 
  The 650's are pretty laid back, so I am going to say that's not the problem. Hopefully you've got all your music properly
  converted to FLAC/ALAC. Which would just leave one big problem, you don't have a DAC.
  It's most likely just your amp amplifying garbage from you Mac digital out. Get a DAC and this should alleviate the pain.


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## Mr.Tom

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> The 650's are pretty laid back, so I am going to say that's not the problem. Hopefully you've got all your music properly
> converted to FLAC/ALAC. Which would just leave one big problem, you don't have a DAC.
> It's most likely just your amp amplifying garbage from you Mac digital out. Get a DAC and this should alleviate the pain.


 
  It's not even going via digital out. He's running out of the line level to the Valhalla. That means the audio is being amplified to line level by a $.05 op-amp, and a handfull of other cheap parts.


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## paradoxper

Quote: 





mr.tom said:


> It's not even going via digital out. He's running out of the line level to the Valhalla. That means the audio is being amplified to line level by a $.05 op-amp, and a handfull of other cheap parts.


 
  Is he using a 3.5mm stereo male to 2RCA male?


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## schaaf

Yes. As I don't yet have a DAC, it's all there is to do. 
And all but 20% or so of my music is lossless, yes. 

I'm working on getting a DAC, but it might be a couple if weeks.


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## Mr.Tom

Quote: 





schaaf said:


> Yes. As I don't yet have a DAC, it's all there is to do.
> And all but 20% or so of my music is lossless, yes.
> I'm working on getting a DAC, but it might be a couple if weeks.


 
  You may want to look at something like a DAC Magic, as there said to sound a little warmer than a Bifrost. And I often see used for half of new.


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## paradoxper

I'd go with either ODAC or Bifrost. Just based on hearing everything over and under your potential budget. Both those DACs are a very good value.
  DAC Magic isn't that great, IMO. But give us a budget to better specify options for you.


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## schaaf

Sorry - yeah it's going to be a bifrost. 

S-


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## paradoxper

Quote: 





schaaf said:


> Sorry - yeah it's going to be a bifrost.
> S-


 
  Should be quite a few hitting the F/S forum in August, er, maybe early September. haha


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## Mr.Tom

Back to Rolling! So I was very please with the 6n1p, as it gave the Valhalla a very HiEnd SS sound, also keeping the tube sound in the upper bass/lower midrange. But I was finding a slight fatigue after 6 hours of listening.
   
  And I could not even take the Dead Kennedy's for 5 minutes. So I dug around and found some 6n23p. These tubes remove the extreme detail of the 6n1p, also replacing the dry with a wet warm distortion. So I'm finding the 6n23p is not 
  as good of a tube as the 6n1p(in an absolute transistor way), but if you need a more syrupy sound, as to listen to poorly mastered music, the 6n23p will do just that.


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## Mr.Tom

Hi all, I just found away to add more slam with a full liquid rainbow SQ.
   
  Get some 60's era 6n6p's. The different's is as great as a 6n1p change. I also tried some 6n6p from the 80's and the slam was not there to the same degree. I guess the Red's were making killer tubes in the 60's!
   
  One other thing, this set of 68's I got are 1/4" taller.


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## Mr.Tom

This is a repost for the rolling thread.
   
  I dug around today and found some tubes I forgot I had. There 1972 6n1p-BN. There the finest made tubes I've ever seen. There sounds is so pin point precise, that it's down right scary with the lights off. Very deep punchy bass, and more sub like bass then I've heard from any other tubes. But the treble comes thru as clear as the bass, so there hard on the ears with anything thats not perfectly mastered! So I have a handful of albums that have never sounded sooo perfect, and a truck load of albums that I can not enjoy(unless the volume is very low). The tubes look just like this one in the pic. Notice the fine detail in the insulating spacers, not something you see everyday.
   
  I'm holding true to my findings on that the 6n23p is best for everyday use, with any type of music. The 6n23p does nothing Excellent, and most everything Good~very good.
   
  Listening to the 6n1p-bn as I type this. Talk about lip smacking detail! It's like being there!


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## Rossliew

Mr. Tom,
   
  Which brand is the 6n1p-bn tube you mentioned below?  Am getting my Valhalla soon and am learning as much as i can on tube rolling as well as the different sound signature it produces. Looking for something to boost the bass especially so appreciate if you could advise me on this 
   
  Can we change the 6n6p output tubes as well? What complementary tube types would be appropriate for them?
   
  Cheers
  Quote: 





mr.tom said:


> This is a repost for the rolling thread.
> 
> I dug around today and found some tubes I forgot I had. There 1972 6n1p-BN. There the finest made tubes I've ever seen. There sounds is so pin point precise, that it's down right scary with the lights off. Very deep punchy bass, and more sub like bass then I've heard from any other tubes. But the treble comes thru as clear as the bass, so there hard on the ears with anything thats not perfectly mastered! So I have a handful of albums that have never sounded sooo perfect, and a truck load of albums that I can not enjoy(unless the volume is very low). The tubes look just like this one in the pic. Notice the fine detail in the insulating spacers, not something you see everyday.
> 
> ...


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## Mr.Tom

The brand is Novosibirsk. The key thing I've found about Russian tubes, is there years. The tubes made from the mid 60's to the mid 70's seem to be the best. Later years can sound good, but it's hit or miss, and they dont seem to match as well. I find it unlikely you'll find any of these tubes(you could get lucky). I'll ship you two matched NOS, for $27.
   
  On the 6n6p front, there's not much to choose from. 6n6p, 6n6p-i, 6n6p-eb. Again try to find some from the 70~80's.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





rossliew said:


> Mr. Tom,
> 
> Which brand is the 6n1p-bn tube you mentioned below?  Am getting my Valhalla soon and am learning as much as i can on tube rolling as well as the different sound signature it produces. Looking for something to boost the bass especially so appreciate if you could advise me on this
> 
> ...


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## Rossliew

Quote: 





mr.tom said:


> The brand is Novosibirsk. The key thing I've found about Russian tubes, is there years. The tubes made from the mid 60's to the mid 70's seem to be the best. Later years can sound good, but it's hit or miss, and they dont seem to match as well. I find it unlikely you'll find any of these tubes(you could get lucky). I'll ship you two matched NOS, for $27.
> 
> On the 6n6p front, there's not much to choose from. 6n6p, 6n6p-i, 6n6p-eb. Again try to find some from the 70~80's.


 

 That sounds good. What is the expected shipping cost? Am based in Malaysia. Will you accept Paypal payments? Cheers


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## Rossliew

Btw, will these work for the Lyr as well?


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## Mr.Tom

Quote: 





rossliew said:


> Btw, will these work for the Lyr as well?


 
  Yes, but I have no idea how they will sound. Given the Lyr is more mellow than the Valhalla, I'd guess they would sound good.


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## schaaf

I was looking around for some tubes to try out and came across the Gold Lion 6922. Someone in another thread happened to mention it too. I was looking for the prices of them online and am a little confused. They are about 50 bucks each on one website, and on another they're about 80 for "cryotreated and matched pair." Why would those be cheaper? I was under the impression that cryotreating would make them more expensive?


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## Mr.Tom

Not exactly tube rolling, but I did need to roll the tubes to get these socket savers installed.


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## Rossliew

Where would one get the socket savers? Are they supposed to make tube rolling easier?


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## Mr.Tom

Quote: 





rossliew said:


> Where would one get the socket savers? Are they supposed to make tube rolling easier?


 
  I got them off Ebay. They make getting the tube out of a Valhalla easy.


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## paradoxper

Quote: 





mr.tom said:


> Not exactly tube rolling, but I did need to roll the tubes to get these socket savers installed.


 
  Nice shots, Tom!
   
  What are those tubes you have rolled in?


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## Mr.Tom

I've been playing around with some 6n6pi tubes that seem to give a deeper fatter bass.
   
  I've also been using some 6n1p from the mid 60's that are by far the best sounding 6n1p so far. There sounding better than the 6n23p's in every way except bass(not quite as fat).


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## Rossliew

Quote: 





mr.tom said:


> I've been playing around with some 6n6pi tubes that seem to give a deeper fatter bass.
> 
> I've also been using some 6n1p from the mid 60's that are by far the best sounding 6n1p so far. There sounding better than the 6n23p's in every way except bass(not quite as fat).


 

 Are the 6n6pi ones similar to those i got off you?
   
  Need to try your mid-60s ones


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## Mr.Tom

Quote: 





rossliew said:


> Are the 6n6pi ones similar to those i got off you?
> 
> Need to try your mid-60s ones


 
  No, there the power tubes(tall ones). The difference I'm hearing is not large enough to justify the change. But if you need power tubes down the road, they work well.
   
  The 6n1p(short tubes) are where most of the change in sound from tube to tube happens.


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## Rossliew

Thanks for the advice


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## Rossliew

Mr. Tom, you mentioned in your earlier postings that the Bifrost could be bright when matched with the Valhalla. Wouldn't the tubes mellow the edges somewhat? Am mulling over whether to get the Bifrost or not as I'm presently running straight from the CDP to the Valhalla, basically using the CDP's built-in DAC, which is quite good to these ears.
   
  But, wondering if a standalone Bifrost connected to the CDP and on to the amp would make a noticeable difference. i love my sound to be on the warmer side of neutral but was apprehensive after reading your post.
   
  Can you elaborate more on the sound sig of your rig (Valhalla + Bifrost)? Cheers


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## Mr.Tom

I dont recall stating it was bright, but now that it's been running for about a month, I can 100 % honestly say, it's not bright at all. It's the most neutral DAC I've ever owned.
   
  Team up with the Valhalla(also very neutral), you'll get a very honest playback of your source material, and this sword cuts both ways.


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## Rossliew

Ok, thanks for the note. I suppose one can roll tubes to color the sound to one's taste.


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## Mr.Tom

So I've found what I feel is the end of my search. These NOS Russian tubes are Fantastic! They do everything they way they should. I've reached 100% audio bliss!
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/626399/the-best-of-the-bunch-russian-tubes-for-schiit-valhalla-version-1-2


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## Rossliew

Quote: 





mr.tom said:


> So I've found what I feel is the end of my search. These NOS Russian tubes are Fantastic! They do everything they way they should. I've reached 100% audio bliss!
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/626399/the-best-of-the-bunch-russian-tubes-for-schiit-valhalla-version-1-2


 
  And have you reserved a set for me, Mr Tom?


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## Mr.Tom

Of coarse.


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## schaaf

Just tossed mine into the valhalla.
   
   
  Already I can hear the difference. Especially in the bass. It's just... there now. Where it should be. Imaging is really great. Really really good. 
  So far this early in, I'm liking them. Very musical. The volume seems a touch louder on the left side than the right, but it could just be my weird right ear.


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## Mr.Tom

Quote: 





schaaf said:


> Just tossed mine into the valhalla.
> 
> 
> Already I can hear the difference. Especially in the bass. It's just... there now. Where it should be. Imaging is really great. Really really good.
> So far this early in, I'm liking them. Very musical. The volume seems a touch louder on the left side than the right, but it could just be my weird right ear.


 
  It really is a fantastic combo. The Russians really made some high quality stuff during the 60~70's
   
  Try reversing the tubes and see if it changes. It should not change at all, as I match the tubes section to section and tube to tube within 2%(thats very close).
   
  If you find there's an imbalance, send them back, and I'll send you a different set.


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## gefski

Hi all-
Just saw this thread, so am jumping in a couple months late. I have really liked the amp top to bottom with stock tubes so haven't tried anything else until now. Grabbed a pair of JAN Sylvania 6dj8 from my Sonic Frontiers and was shocked at the magnitude of the changes (usually tube changes are subtle). These were NOT changes for the better. Cold, threadbare, sterile. So I agree with Mr Tom about Schiit's knowing what they're doing with the 6n1p. May roll something else in the future but sure won't spend a bunch of $ to do so.

Just got a Dragonfly for a "traveling" dac so have been listening to it a bit, but no real comparisons to the Bifrost. Was shocked at the improvement it made to the MP3 files on my wife's Macbook Pro. What a killer product for the non-audiophile market!
Thanks, enjoying the forums.


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## eskerman

I am new to this forum and indeed the topic. I am very much an analogue buff and I cant avoid the temptation of vinyl and to fire up my old AKAI...
   
  I am to invest in a DAC and a headphone amp to use with my Macbook Pro and I am hoping to keep the budget sensible. I like Tubes and I am tempted to buy the Schitt Valhalla and Bifrost set up.. seems on average to be good value.. I am not a purist, but I do like crisp sound and big bass. I understand these tube units need to be run-in for a few days and I notice there are some options to upgrade the tubes for "better ones" Is this really necessary considering manufacturers would offer the best option tube from new..? why is it necessary to upgrade tubes on this amps..
   
  I am based in Ireland so Voltage will have to be 220/240VAC in case there was some secondhand gear about 
   
  Regards
  Paul


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## Mr.Tom

Nothing wrong with the stock tubes.


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## gmahler2u

I order the new valhalla, so i'm also in the game.
   
  my first tube will be amperex bugle boy  i don't which year but yeah...
   
  thanks


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## HayU

Hi all, received Valhalla and Bifrost mid December. Purchased some new tubes and changed out stock tubes, some change in clarity for the better, headphones brighter to me anyway. Using Russian NOS 6H23N-EB. Have really enjoyed listening to some new dowloaded music.
   
  Question will changing tubes to often wear out the tube socket, pin connections?
   
  Thanks


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## solserenade

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> I order the new valhalla, so i'm also in the game.
> 
> my first tube will be amperex bugle boy  i don't which year but yeah...
> 
> thanks


 
   
  Great! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Hope you enjoy it.


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## gmahler2u

Hi solserenade.
   
  In the Valhalla, there are 4 tubes.  Do I need all same tubes? or Do I need different types of tubes?  I ordered 2 amperex.
   
  Thank you


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## solserenade

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Hi solserenade.
> 
> In the Valhalla, there are 4 tubes.  Do I need all same tubes? or Do I need different types of tubes?  I ordered 2 amperex.
> 
> Thank you


 
   
  When you receive the amp, it will have all four tubes in it. (well, you will insert them)
   
  http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=4
   
  Usually, people swap-out the pre-amp (input) tubes--they are the two smaller ones toward the front (one per channel). I assume that is what you ordered, the Amperex.
   
  In your tube swapping (rolling) you will always be exchanging *pairs *-- for instance, the two shorter ones in front. That would be the left and right channel pre-amp tubes.
   
  http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=2
   
  On the Valhalla web page, it describes the two tube types, as well as potential substitutions for the pre-amp tubes. 
   
  Hope that helps.


----------



## rlarsen462

Ben (Mr Tom) finally got free of the coal mines and had a chance to send me the Russian tubes he discusses in this thread.  Let's just say they were MORE than worth the wait (and I highly recommend Ben as a seller although I don't think his rep needs any more help judging by his history here).
   
  This is like listening to a different amp, with different headphones all over again.  Being new to the hobby, I'm literally blown away that tubes can make this much difference.  More punch, clarity, smoother highs, and I actually now understand what the "veil" is that people talk about with HD650's, because I'd been hearing it for two months and now it's gone.
   
  I feel bad because I'm not sure he has any more sets, or will be able to get more, but I can't imagine anything being capable of making this amp sound better.  Night and day vs. the stock tubes in my admittedly new-to-the-game opinion.


----------



## gmahler2u

anymore tube rolling here?


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> anymore tube rolling here?


 
   
  I recently swapped-in a pair of 1971 Amperex ECC88.


----------



## gmahler2u

I just ordered the Amperex Orange Globe 1967 6dj8 ecc88.


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> I just ordered the Amperex Orange Globe 1967 6dj8 ecc88.


 
   
  Cool.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I had a very nice session last night listening through the Valhalla (with 1971 Amperex). I'm quite pleased with the bass (as compared with the stock tubes) -- which is what I was looking for -- and the clarity throughout the frequency spectrum is really nice.
   
  My Valhalla is in a rack with a vintage receiver, TT, etc. For a few weeks I had trouble turning it on, knowing the old receiver was kicking it's 'holla. 
   
_Now, _(last night anyway) the Valhalla is right up there, with the bass filled out, etc. - I no longer felt the receiver was doing a significantly better job.
   
  I'd like to thank the person who recommended this tube for a bass boost (for lack of a better term).  The amp has not sounded better.


----------



## gmahler2u

Yes, with my 1962 bugle boy sounded clear.  Right now I'm using lcd2, it's my first ortho headphone.  It was warm sound signature, it's great with my tube and valhalla.  top to bottom I just love it!


----------



## gmahler2u

Valhalla and lcd2 is simply awesome combo!! Astonish combo! my lcd2 burned about 4 days straight! Now I'm hearing Power of lcd2!!
  such musical headphone!!


----------



## gmahler2u

can anyone explain this?
   
  The only active devices in the audio signal path in Valhalla are tubes. The 6N1P triodes input provides linear, low noise voltage gain. The 6N6P triodes provide good power output capability for a wide variety of high-impedance headphones (though, if you're looking at orthos, check Mjolnir, Lyr and Asgard instead.)
   
  Is this mean Valhalla is not good for ortho headphone or can not drive ortho headphone?
   
  Thanks


----------



## zfwise

I'm a newbie to tube amps.
  I want to by schiit valhalla and I found people discussing "tube rolling".
 What does "tube rolling" means?


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





zfwise said:


> I'm a newbie to tube amps.
> I want to by schiit valhalla and I found people discussing "tube rolling".
> What does "tube rolling" means?


 
   
  It simply refers to swapping, or switching, one set of tubes for another ... or another, etc.  Since different tubes have characteristics that affect the tone and musicality, etc., people like to "try on" different sounds - by researching what is compatible, then replacing the stock tubes with a (compatible) different one.
   
_Rolling_ got it's name, as I understand it, from the physical action of removing a tube safely/carefully/efficiently from the socket--by gently "rolling" (or rocking) the tube, sometimes in a circular fashion, to help with the friction of the socket hanging onto the tube ... gently "rolling" or rocking (a _slight_ angle to the socket) the tube, while pulling up (as opposed to _only_ pulling straight up ... I believe it's a kinder way to treat tubes and sockets in the long run).
   
  The process could be called "tube swapping", "switching", "changing", etc. just as well. It's a (generally optional) part of the hobby - the adventure of seeking a different sound, *the* sound, or even a different "sound profile" altogether - maybe to better match a particular headphone .. for instance.


----------



## zfwise

Quote: 





solserenade said:


> It simply refers to swapping, or switching, one set of tubes for another ... or another, etc.  Since different tubes have characteristics that affect the tone and musicality, etc., people like to "try on" different sounds - by researching what is compatible, then replacing the stock tubes with a (compatible) different one.
> 
> _Rolling_ got it's name, as I understand it, from the physical action of removing a tube safely/carefully/efficiently from the socket--by gently "rolling" (or rocking) the tube, sometimes in a circular fashion, to help with the friction of the socket hanging onto the tube ... gently "rolling" or rocking (a _slight_ angle to the socket) the tube, while pulling up (as opposed to _only_ pulling straight up ... I believe it's a kinder way to treat tubes and sockets in the long run).
> 
> The process could be called "tube swapping", "switching", "changing", etc. just as well. It's a (generally optional) part of the hobby - the adventure of seeking a different sound, *the* sound, or even a different "sound profile" altogether - maybe to better match a particular headphone .. for instance.


 
   


 Woo~Thank you very much.
  I just got my Valhalla and is there any posts or threads that sum up the tubes that compatible?


----------



## Flea Bag

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Valhalla and lcd2 is simply awesome combo!! Astonish combo! my lcd2 burned about 4 days straight! Now I'm hearing Power of lcd2!!
> such musical headphone!!


 
   
  I too am puzzled when people say that the LCD-2 can't be driven well by the Vahalla. Technically, I know the reasons why they shouldn't work and even Schiit advises against the LCD-2 Vahalla combo, but to me, the LCD-2 (stock tubes) and the Vahalla was wonderfully organic, smooth and natural.
   
  The Asgard was more muffled-sounding and at the same time, gave me a less natural soundstage and was fatiguing. I felt mentally exhaused within 5 minutes of listening through the Asgard. The Vahalla-LCD-2 was had a much more well-rounded and more coherent soundstage and I experienced no fatigue and no sibilance despite it being brighter. Take note that I listen at very low volumes though so there's every possibility that the Vahalla runs out of juice at volumes higher than what I listen at. I have also yet to hear the Lyr-LCD-2 combo, but if that turns out to be fatiguing as well, then I suspect the transistor output stage of the Lyr/Asgard is responsible for that fatigue compared to the tubed output of the Vahalla.
   
  I always prefer a warmer, thicker and more bass-heavy sound, but the Vahalla and LCD-2 was a wonderful combination. If I could roll out the stock tubes to be less bright, that would be even better. I'm interested to hear what others have to say about this combo.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





flea bag said:


> I too am puzzled when people say that the LCD-2 can't be driven well by the Vahalla. Technically, I know the reasons why they shouldn't work and even Schiit advises against the LCD-2 Vahalla combo, but to me, the LCD-2 (stock tubes) and the Vahalla was wonderfully organic, smooth and natural.
> 
> The Asgard was more muffled-sounding and at the same time, gave me a less natural soundstage and was fatiguing. I felt mentally exhaused within 5 minutes of listening through the Asgard. The Vahalla-LCD-2 was had a much more well-rounded and more coherent soundstage and I experienced no fatigue and no sibilance despite it being brighter. Take note that I listen at very low volumes though so there's every possibility that the Vahalla runs out of juice at volumes higher than what I listen at. I have also yet to hear the Lyr-LCD-2 combo, but if that turns out to be fatiguing as well, then I suspect the transistor output stage of the Lyr/Asgard is responsible for that fatigue compared to the tubed output of the Vahalla.
> 
> I always prefer a warmer, thicker and more bass-heavy sound, but the Vahalla and LCD-2 was a wonderful combination. If I could roll out the stock tubes to be less bright, that would be even better. I'm interested to hear what others have to say about this combo.


 

 you can have some fun with tube rolling, if you're into tube rolling.


----------



## zfwise

Oh~
  I just got my new Valhalla.
  Excited.
   
  And here is one question:
  how long it takes to get to a stable situation?
  I mean my new Valhalla infrequently produce some "bla~bla~". Is it because that the Valhalla is new and need time to adapt or some other problems?
   
  In the same time, I should unplug the headphone and turn off the Valhalla or turn off the Valhalla then unplug the headphone?
  Any difference?


----------



## hodgjy

Tube amps can take up to 30 minutes to warm up and be stable.  They are usually functional within two minutes, but their sound gets better as they warm up.
   
  Tube amps always need a load on them, or you risk damaging the amp.  Leave the phones plugged in during power on and power off.  The Valhalla doesn't make any pops or thumps, so you risk nothing with your headphones.
   
   
  Quote: 





zfwise said:


> Oh~
> I just got my new Valhalla.
> Excited.
> 
> ...


----------



## Mr.Tom

First run in is about 200 hours. Mine sounds good after 10 minutes.


----------



## solserenade

I feel like I get the very best from my Valhalla when it *fully* warms up - around an hour… I go by not time, but feel - put my hand on the case. This way the ambient room temp is taken into consideration. 

I agree that the Valhalla is quiet while switching on/off, and 'phones may safely be plugged in all the time. 

Enjoy!


----------



## zfwise

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Tube amps can take up to 30 minutes to warm up and be stable.  They are usually functional within two minutes, but their sound gets better as they warm up.
> 
> Tube amps always need a load on them, or you risk damaging the amp.  Leave the phones plugged in during power on and power off.  The Valhalla doesn't make any pops or thumps, so you risk nothing with your headphones.


 
  Here is another question,
   
  I can hear sound like sparking. When I'm listening to music, I found that the 50-80HZ input cause some unusual sounds like spark.
  Its like that in the winter you body produce static electric and you are taking off your coats, sparking~~~~bla~bla~
   
  is that normal?


----------



## hodgjy

It may be normal if you hear those sounds while the amp is warming up during the first few minutes.  It may also be normal if the tubes have low hours and are still burning in.
   
  But, it could also be bad tubes.  The only active devices in the Valhalla are the tubes, so they are the most likely cause.  Perhaps email Jason and ask him.  He might send you another set of tubes if he determines they are the cause.
   
  Quote: 





zfwise said:


> Here is another question,
> 
> I can hear sound like sparking. When I'm listening to music, I found that the 50-80HZ input cause some unusual sounds like spark.
> Its like that in the winter you body produce static electric and you are taking off your coats, sparking~~~~bla~bla~
> ...


----------



## Nic Rhodes

has anyone rolled a Mullard E182CC here?


----------



## Byronb

Quote: 





nic rhodes said:


> has anyone rolled a Mullard E182CC here?


 
  Excellent question, anyone?


----------



## Nic Rhodes

another Q, I have 'Reflector' and 'Novo' 6N6Ps, did any other 'cities' do 6N6Ps? Voskhod especially, Orzep, Anode, Foton etc? What do people currently recommend as the best 6N6P that is easily available especially older examples. I would also be interested in any other variants like Vi, EV etc if they exist. I can only find 6N6P and 6N6P-i.


----------



## gefski

nic rhodes said:


> another Q, I have 'Reflector' and 'Novo' 6N6Ps, did any other 'cities' do 6N6Ps? Voskhod especially, Orzep, Anode, Foton etc? What do people currently recommend as the best 6N6P that is easily available especially older examples. I would also be interested in any other variants like Vi, EV etc if they exist. I can only find 6N6P and 6N6P-i.




I can't really find sources for 6N6Ps. Have spare set from Schiit, but that's it. I looked at a couple Russian sites, but am unsure about that (one had scam type warnings when I googled around). Ideas anyone?

Since 6N6Ps directly drive the headphones, they should provide significant differences. For the front end, there are lots of 6DJ8/6922 variants.

That said, I've been very happy with the Valhalla using stock tubes (and less happy with some of the 6922s I've tried).


----------



## Mr.Tom

Quote: 





gefski said:


> I can't really find sources for 6N6Ps. Have spare set from Schiit, but that's it. I looked at a couple Russian sites, but am unsure about that (one had scam type warnings when I googled around). Ideas anyone?
> 
> Since 6N6Ps directly drive the headphones, they should provide significant differences. For the front end, there are lots of 6DJ8/6922 variants.
> 
> That said, I've been very happy with the Valhalla using stock tubes (and less happy with some of the 6922s I've tried).


 
   
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/626399/the-best-of-the-bunch-russian-tubes-for-schiit-valhalla-version-1-2


----------



## Nic Rhodes

No problems Reflector and Novo 6N6Ps, even good 60s and 70s variants. I and IR variants are more difficult to get...Other cities are just an unknown to me at present but have found ebay from 'old USSR' countries a positive experience on ebay. Good communication (in English) and well packed.


----------



## Byronb

Nic,
   
  I highly recommend LCI Electronics on ebay. They have a lot of old USSR tubes and the communication and packaging is excellent.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Thanks, I have had one small order from them but by coincidence I have a page open on them atm!


----------



## Byronb

Awesome, happy shopping


----------



## djdonis

Quote: 





mr.tom said:


> This is a repost for the rolling thread.
> 
> I dug around today and found some tubes I forgot I had. There 1972 6n1p-BN. There the finest made tubes I've ever seen. There sounds is so pin point precise, that it's down right scary with the lights off. Very deep punchy bass, and more sub like bass then I've heard from any other tubes. But the treble comes thru as clear as the bass, so there hard on the ears with anything thats not perfectly mastered! So I have a handful of albums that have never sounded sooo perfect, and a truck load of albums that I can not enjoy(unless the volume is very low). The tubes look just like this one in the pic. Notice the fine detail in the insulating spacers, not something you see everyday.
> 
> ...


 
  The tube in the picture is 6N1P-VE which does not exist outside eBay. The numbers are printed on the tubes using some kind of printer. diyaudio forums mentioned that this could be fake chinese tube made look like vintage soviet. The only 6n1p variants produced in USSR are regular 6n1p and military 6n1p-EV (not VE) version with the getter on top attached on both sides of the internal shield, plus additional mica spacer. The best sounding 6n1p have cccp pentagon sign on them and have carbon plated internal shield (in addition to cathodes). EV versions I've seen have non-carbonized internal shield and they sound somewhat brighter. The screening on original tubes is light bronze color. "OTK" stamps are stamped by hand (it's a QC stamp) after testing the tube and it is usually a rhombus with OTK inside plus the number identifying the person doing the testing. Genuine OTK stamps are usually dark blue lacker (not etching, not white) and are found everywhere on the tube. If you see OTK stamp that looks perfect and appears consistently in the same place - fake - tubes come from surplus storage with no testing done on them.


----------



## djdonis

Quote: 





nic rhodes said:


> another Q, I have 'Reflector' and 'Novo' 6N6Ps, did any other 'cities' do 6N6Ps? Voskhod especially, Orzep, Anode, Foton etc? What do people currently recommend as the best 6N6P that is easily available especially older examples. I would also be interested in any other variants like Vi, EV etc if they exist. I can only find 6N6P and 6N6P-i.


 
   
  Look for Foton factory 6n6p. They could be identified by darker glass envelope (they look "burned"), square getter attached on both sides, and carbon plated internal shield. In my experience those sound the best.


----------



## Mr.Tom

Quote: 





djdonis said:


> The tube in the picture is 6N1P-VE which does not exist outside eBay. The numbers are printed on the tubes using some kind of printer. diyaudio forums mentioned that this could be fake chinese tube made look like vintage soviet. The only 6n1p variants produced in USSR are regular 6n1p and military 6n1p-EV (not VE) version with the getter on top attached on both sides of the internal shield, plus additional mica spacer. The best sounding 6n1p have cccp pentagon sign on them and have carbon plated internal shield (in addition to cathodes). EV versions I've seen have non-carbonized internal shield and they sound somewhat brighter. The screening on original tubes is light bronze color. "OTK" stamps are stamped by hand (it's a QC stamp) after testing the tube and it is usually a rhombus with OTK inside plus the number identifying the person doing the testing. Genuine OTK stamps are usually dark blue lacker (not etching, not white) and are found everywhere on the tube. If you see OTK stamp that looks perfect and appears consistently in the same place - fake - tubes come from surplus storage with no testing done on them.


 
  It's a 6n1p-VI and it is a real tube, not a copy from China.


----------



## RockvillePete

I’ve just purchased a Schiit Valhalla to go with my Cardas modified HD650’s. The amp arrived on Friday and with only a few hours break-in the sound was excellent! I’m amazed at how fast this amp is and its ability to resolve sharp transients with such clarity. This was really brought home when listening to Maurizo Pollini’s 1976 DG recording of the Chopin Polonaises, Op.26 No.1 in particular. No graininess or evidence of clipping as I've heard from the usual op-amp driven headphone output.
   
I’ve read this thread with interest and decided to source some of the Russian tube recommendations made by Mr. Tom and others. I found a set of matched 6N1P’s made in Novosibirsk for the soviet military in 1964. This was the only set of 1960’s 6N1P’s I could find on eBay and they were a good bit more expensive than the more recent vintages. I also got lucky with the output 6N6P’s and found two matched sets of Souz ([size=x-small]Novosibirsk) made OTK’s from 1970 and even better, two matched pairs of FOTON OTK from 1966. It’ll take a few weeks for these babies to get here, giving me more time to familiarize myself with the stock tubes.[/size]
   
Transient attack and detail are excellent with the stock tubes, as is the overall clarity. The one thing I’m hoping these tubes will do is add a touch more weight to the mid bass as these seem just a tad on the lean side and perhaps warm the midrange just a little. Make it more like that "smoky nightclub with a hot chick in a red dress" kind of thing. That may not be possible with this design or tube selection though. The detail is already excellent so I can’t imagine the improvement the 1964 6N1P’s will bring. 
   
I’ll offer a follow-up once the tubes arrive and I’ve had sufficient time with them. If anyone has any other tube suggestions for adding weight and a little more warmth please let us know!


----------



## imackler

Quick question. I bought a used Valhalla. It came with an unused set of 6N1P (I think intended for the Lyr) in addition to the 4 Tube Valhalla set. Would there be any reason to keep the extra set of 6N1P? If I needed to replace a tube, wouldn't I want to purchase the 4 Tube Valhalla Set? 
Thanks for patience w/ the newb question.


----------



## hodgjy

Keep the extra 6N1P tubes.  Tubes will wear out.  When your current set wears out, you have the driver tubes and only need to buy the power tubes on eBay.  Plus, sometimes tubes catastrophically fail without warning.  Backups are nice.
   
  Quote: 





imackler said:


> Quick question. I bought a used Valhalla. It came with an unused set of 6N1P (I think intended for the Lyr) in addition to the 4 Tube Valhalla set. Would there be any reason to keep the extra set of 6N1P? If I needed to replace a tube, wouldn't I want to purchase the 4 Tube Valhalla Set?
> Thanks for patience w/ the newb question.


----------



## MaDD0G

Hi everybody! I'm new to this forum and cannot post images, therefore will be using links. I've found a couple of tube sets on eBay: 6N1P-VI and 6N1P-EV, not sure if this are real or fake. There are OTK logos on both. Can anyone confirm these logos are real? Links are listed below.
  
 6N1P-VI: http://picase.net/pic/113407
 6N1P-EV: http://picase.net/pic/113406
  
 Thanks, Alex.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

look fine, 6N1P aren't the sort of tube people really fake too much as there are plenty still available at keen prices.


----------



## MaDD0G

Thanks for a fast answer. I'll get these tubes to check how they sound.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

The first ones are made by Nevz at Novosibirsk and the second link by Voskhod at Kaluga ('Rockets'). The latter are generally the better maker / quality level.


----------



## Mr.Tom

nic rhodes said:


> The first ones are made by Nevz at Novosibirsk and the second link by Voskhod at Kaluga ('Rockets'). The latter are generally the better maker / quality level.


 
 Clearly you don't listen very carefully, as I've found the Novosibirsk tubes always sound better.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

I spend ages listening to these in several amp types over 20 years now on these tubes. In fact I have just short or 200 examples of these I have used. [I can provide a picture of them if you would like]. We are talking about both makes here and designations (Vi / Ev etc) before we even start on different year of production. 90s Nevz is a different animal to 70s one, just look at the 6N23, where most prefer 70s Voskhod over EVs. If you disagree thats fine I am fine with that but to say I don't listen carefully ....


----------



## Mr.Tom

Are you Pink?? You sound like him!


----------



## Nic Rhodes

no I am exactly who I say I am. Do you have anything positive to add on why you prefer Nevz on certain kit?


----------



## PuffyElvis

Got my tubes from Mr.Tom the other day (thank you!  I'll post pictures for others to enjoy tonight)  Can't wait to hear them... just have to buy a Valhalla first!  I'm waiting to find one on eBay or on the used equipment forum, surprised I haven't seen any in awhile...
  
 I've been using a Millett Starving Student in the meantime.  I really like the tube sound, but things are a bit compressed on my trusty but cheap tube amp.
  
 One question:  Someone mentioned earlier that tubes need a load on them at all times.  Does that mean music has to be playing or just the headphones plugged in to provide resistance?  Sorry for the noob question, inexperienced with tubes and never heard that before...  I normally just turn on my Starving Student for about 20 minutes before plugging in my headphone and listening...


----------



## PuffyElvis

Here they are, tubes from Mr.Tom:


----------



## JustinBieber

I recently picked up a used Valhalla, I'm loving how it sounds, but I'm getting curious and want to change the input tubes. Problem is that I have one of the first versions that may or may not work with other tubes. Anybody have the V1 Valhalla with nonstandard input tubes? If so, what are they? 
  
 I only found these: http://www.head-fi.org/t/626399/the-best-of-the-bunch-russian-tubes-for-schiit-valhalla-version-1-2


----------



## MaDD0G

It seems, that from the first version of the Valhalla as input tubes were used the same 6N1P. Simply the first version do not allow tube rolling to the similar types of these tubes, such as 6DJ8, 6922, 6BZ7 and others.


----------



## MaDD0G

Hi everybody! Seems this thread isn't very popular, so I'll update.
  
      Yesterday, I've got tubes for the Valhalla. Tubes were purchased from the eBay seller http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/4951511020. Really good seller, the only weakness is Russian post - very slow, took a month to arrive. So here they are:
  
 Gold Grid Rocket logo "Voskhod" 6N1P-EV-OC from the 1980's:
  

  
  
 Gold Grid Novosibirsk "OTK" signed 6N6P from the 1990's:
  

  
      From the first minutes of listening, I can say that these tubes are good improvement over the stock tubes. The bass is more punchy and sound is very detailed.


----------



## Krem

Subscribed.


----------



## TEAMPELONE

Here i am, just ordered a couple of Nos E88CC/cca Telefunken.
I'm waiting like a kid for my self-christmas present!!!


----------



## JustinBieber

I know this is a pretty late reply, but I was able to get a pair of Sovtek 6N1Ps for free since I had left over money on my account at an online store. They should work with V1 Valhalla, right? The only rollable tubes are 6N1P if I understand your previous post.
  
 Decided to ask schiit themselves.


----------



## MaDD0G

teampelone said:


> Here i am, just ordered a couple of Nos E88CC/cca Telefunken.
> I'm waiting like a kid for my self-christmas present!!!


 
 Looking forward for your impressions.


----------



## MaDD0G

Recently received Russian tubes from the seller I mentioned earlier.
  
 These are Gold Pins Gold Grid 6N6P from 1980's (seems to be quite rare):
  

  
 And Gold Pins Gold Grid 6N1P-EV-OC from 1980's:
  

  
 These tubes are sounding very good. The bass is strong and punchy (standard tubes had lack of it), the mids are well defined with a small touch of warmth, the highs are detailed and transparent. These are the best tubes of the 6N6P's and 6N1P's families I've listened to.


----------



## GrindingThud

I've had multiple good experiences with this website and associated eBay seller:
http://tubes-store.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=6n6&imageField.x=-306&imageField.y=-206
http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=&item=300640453043&_osacat=0&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&_ssn=bsa_79&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR11.TRC1.A0.X6n&_nkw=6n&_sacat=0&_from=R40




gefski said:


> I can't really find sources for 6N6Ps. Have spare set from Schiit, but that's it. I looked at a couple Russian sites, but am unsure about that (one had scam type warnings when I googled around). Ideas anyone?
> 
> Since 6N6Ps directly drive the headphones, they should provide significant differences. For the front end, there are lots of 6DJ8/6922 variants.
> 
> That said, I've been very happy with the Valhalla using stock tubes (and less happy with some of the 6922s I've tried).


----------



## TEAMPELONE

I'm still waiting for my Tele tubes... With christmas in the middle the ship takes a lot of time...:mad:


----------



## Mechans1

I am impressed by the incredibly low prices that the Ebay seller is asking .  Many for not much molre than $2 a piece!


----------



## TEAMPELONE

The two E88CC-CCA telefunken arrived yesterday, i started the burn in.
I just listened them a little after three hours of burn in, but i prefer to wait some other hours before writing my impressions...
I only can tell that for the price i pay them, i have big expectations... And i would like to have more that i heard at the moment...


----------



## TEAMPELONE

Here are some pic:


----------



## Mechans1

It may come down to what you don't hear.  These tubes are known for their lack of distortion and have vanishingly low noise.


----------



## moriez

In case someone's interested, there's some upgrade tubes for sale here.


----------



## TEAMPELONE

I'm a little ot, but i eould like to know if anyone has replaced the stock power calble with something better.
Lot of people say that with a really good cable you can obtain more clean sound and bigger soundstage with smooth bass, but i don't know no one that tryed this on the schiit valhalla.


----------



## joespride

OK I just pulled the trigger on a new Valhalla, I have used alot of tube gear in the past and tried the tube rolling thing. I waas never really able to discern much difference (I could tell big differences between different amps I.E....45 set, 2a3 set, 300B, KT88, EL34 etc...)  but not so much difference between different brands of the same tube.
  
 My question is do you all find substantial differences, or merely nuance differences when tube rolling the Valhalla ?
  
 Joe


----------



## gefski

joespride said:


> OK I just pulled the trigger on a new Valhalla, I have used alot of tube gear in the past and tried the tube rolling thing. I waas never really able to discern much difference (I could tell big differences between different amps I.E....45 set, 2a3 set, 300B, KT88, EL34 etc...)  but not so much difference between different brands of the same tube.
> 
> My question is do you all find substantial differences, or merely nuance differences when tube rolling the Valhalla ?
> 
> Joe



Pretty significant differences, not always for the better. HATED the NOS Sylvania 6922s that I really like in my Sonic Frontiers (speaker amp), shrill and brittle. JJs are fine, but I'm back to stock Russian tubes.


----------



## joespride

Thanks for the response,  I'm anxiously awaiting delivery and expecting the weather to delay delivery


----------



## joespride

My schiit is in hagerstown md. Scheduled delivery tomorrow, keeping fingers crossed


----------



## TEAMPELONE

The burning-in of the Telefunken is still going but not yet ended, i think i can hear a bigger soundstage and that the instruments are better separated. The bass sound without any imperfection and high are clear and... really high...
 But everything i heard is a little bit better than the stock tubes, but there are not such great differences... or i am not able to hear such big differences, they are a bit improvement.
 I don't know if my headphones (Alessandro Music Series Two) or my DAC (Schiit Bifrost USB without Uber card) can't hear better differences, or i have to end all the burn in (i think i have 40 - 50 hours of use), or probably i don't have the right files to listen liquid music (my music is bought from itunes, and listen from my iMac 27" late 2010 with a standard USB cable)
 I've payed 300,00€ for the Telefunken and i have thank that probably Pink Floyd will play in my room in front of me...but it isn't so...
 In the future i will like to add the Uber card at the Bifrost and a bigger and better power cable to the Valhalla (probably that:  http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/ttse.html) and only after that i will be ready to try other tubes (i'm watching the E88CC Mullard CV2493).
 Will tell you my last impressions when burn in will finish.


----------



## FrZ-Fi

Just bumping this thread 

Any one have any new experiences with Valhalla tube rolling?


----------



## gefski

frz-fi said:


> Just bumping this thread
> 
> Any one have any new experiences with Valhalla tube rolling?




Undergoing "listener burn-in" with some 1960s 6n1p I just got from MrTom. Will comment later.


----------



## huberd

I just wanted to post what I have found regarding tube rolling with the Valhalla. My equipment consists of Beyerdynamic T90 Headphones, Nordost USB, Nordost Heimdall interconnect cables and PS Audio power cables. I forgot to mention my DAC which is a Gungnir. I purchased Amprex 7308 from Upscale Audio Platinum grade, and JJ Electronic 6922 regular pins not gold to replace the stock tubes. I found that personally I like the JJ tubes the best with my setup. They have a exceptional sound stage and sound warm but detailed presentation. They are very balanced overall for the T90's. The Amprex 7308 sound a little bright but just a tad. The bass is not as full as the JJ's either. The focus on the Amprex is better plus the mid band is better as well. The stock Valhalla tubes were not my cup of tea. The amp actually sounded about as good as the Asgard2 which I have as well. After replacing the tubes it is much better than the Asgard2 and not even close anymore.


----------



## huberd

Please let me know how it goes with the 6n1p. I would like to change out my power tubes next.


----------



## gefski

Took me a while to get it, but it's simple. The 1960s 6N1P are a more transparent tube. Good recordings display texture & timbre, clarity without harshness, and realistic dynamics & flow. Smooth as can be. Great with the Stax rig. Marginal recordings go further in that direction and can become edgy, especially with up-front cans like Grado. So this tube isn't an all-rounder, but is worth owning for sure.


----------



## gefski

Duh...not paying attention to my own posting. The 1960s 6N1P have nothing to do with the Stax rig of course; my comments relate strictly to Valhalla--bigger gaps between good and marginal recordings and between Grado & Beyerdynamic or Senn. 

Shouldn't be listening to Stax when posting; concentration is lost.:confused_face_2:


----------



## MaDD0G

In case someone's interested, there's some upgrade tube sets for sale here.


----------



## radiojam

I got a set of Mr. Tom's tubes and I've had the opportunity to spend a week with them (w/ HD 650).  I've just been enjoying the music and not listening too critically, but today I swapped in the stock tubes to see what I would notice.  I don't know if it's the skeptic in me but I feel like I have to temper my impressions with "it may just be my perception."  That being said, _it may just be my perception_ but the stock tubes somehow sounded hollower, more distorted, and more sibilant.  With Mr. Tom's tubes the highs are rolled off (in a good way) without any loss in detail.  The mids are rounder, and the bass is cleaner and better extended.  I've never really been one to use those 25 cent words to describe sound, but when you hear it that's the only way you can put it.  I'm not going to say the differences are night and day, or that the stock tubes are useless, or even that my brain is not playing tricks on me, but I did notice a difference and I am very satisfied. So I will call it settled, change out the stock tubes one last time and get back to the music!


----------



## Rusty143

I  have rolled 6DJ8 tubes in my Sonic Frontier power amp in the past. I am considering getting the Valhalla, so this thread has been of real interest to me. Please see my post in the recommendations forum. 

I have rolled Mullards, Telefunkens, Amperex PQ 6922 and bugle boys, Sovtek 6922, JJ 6DJ8. 

To my ears, there was a world of difference between the older NOS stuff and the Sovteks. Sovtek were just bright and brittle. Terrible. 

The Mullards were darker and softer, the Telefunkens neutral and clean, PQ similar to the Telefunkens but not as clean and smooth. By far, in this amp and system, the best sounding were the bugle boys (tubes ranged from 1962 to 64). Beautiful open detailed sound. Made the music seem present and alive. Awesome tube. Truly made a significant improvement. The Mullards and Telefunkens actually made a good mixed combination (4 6DJ8 tubes). 

The power tubes in this amp are EL34. Could also roll in KT 88 and KT90 tubes. Power tubes didn't effect the sound as much as the driver tubes, but the type 2 KT90 Ei tubes were awesome. All gone now from what I understand. 

I'm interested, if I get the Valhalla, of the effect of tube rolling.


----------



## gefski

rusty143 said:


> I  have rolled 6DJ8 tubes in my Sonic Frontier power amp in the past. I am considering getting the Valhalla, so this thread has been of real interest to me. Please see my post in the recommendations forum.
> 
> I have rolled Mullards, Telefunkens, Amperex PQ 6922 and bugle boys, Sovtek 6922, JJ 6DJ8.
> 
> ...




Significant differences (no output transformers, so you're really hearing "through" the Valhalla). JAN Sylvanias that I like in my SFS-40 did not bring smiles in my Valhalla setup; forward and edgy. Have tried several others, but I'm back to Russkie 6n1p tubes, either some 1960s I got from Mr Tom or the stockers. A lot depends on the cans you're driving of course.


----------



## Rusty143

Sounds like apples and oranges with the sonic frontiers and the Valhalla. Too bad not more of a direct comparison as that was one factor I was looking at as a positive in purchasing the Valhalla. 

How are you liking your Valhalla amp?


----------



## gefski

rusty143 said:


> Sounds like apples and oranges with the sonic frontiers and the Valhalla. Too bad not more of a direct comparison as that was one factor I was looking at as a positive in purchasing the Valhalla.
> 
> How are you liking your Valhalla amp?




Two years into it, very well. It's in no sense a "soft & round" tube amp, however. It's detailed, fast, and lively, with great texture. Suits my preferences to a "T".


----------



## Rusty143

Sounds like it has potential! I will keep reading about amps and DACs. Going to have to take the plunge at some point!


----------



## Rem0o

gefski said:


> Two years into it, very well. It's in no sense a "soft & round" tube amp, however. It's detailed, fast, and lively, with great texture. Suits my preferences to a "T".


 
 +1 

 This description fit what I heard in the last year. I would also add that is has nice dimensionality.


----------



## Rusty143

RentWhat do Valhalla owners think about reviews that feel the Asgaard is smoother, more open sound stage and has more midrange presence? Do you think the tubes weren't burnt in? Is the Asagaard a smoother amp? I am looking to match them with the Sen HD 600.


----------



## Themorganlett85

I know this doesn't have anything to do with rolling but I will be placing my order for the Valhalla and the Uber Bifrost along with a pair of HD-650s in the next week or so, I CAN'T wait to get my grubby little hands on them.
  
 I plan on doing some tube rolling although no right off the bat but I have went over this thread more times than I can count so I have a good idea of what kind of tubes I wanna pick up for it. As you can tell I'm very excited to finally be getting into this, I'm pretty sure I've drove my wife crazy talking to her about it and showing her picture after picture but hey that's the fun in being married.


----------



## Koolpep

rusty143 said:


> RentWhat do Valhalla owners think about reviews that feel the Asgaard is smoother, more open sound stage and has more midrange presence? Do you think the tubes weren't burnt in? Is the Asagaard a smoother amp? I am looking to match them with the Sen HD 600.


 
  
 Unfortunately I can't compare these as I have the 1st iteration of the Asgard and the first of the Valhalla (not rollable) so my review wouldn't make any sense as the Asgard 2 is a different amp now (much better).


----------



## Themorganlett85

I had a question. What do you guys usually use to store your tubes in? I've seen some pretty nifty looking boxes and stuff out there I just didn't know where to get them or if you primarily just keep them in the little cardboard box they originally came in. Thank you


----------



## gefski

themorganlett85 said:


> I had a question. What do you guys usually use to store your tubes in? I've seen some pretty nifty looking boxes and stuff out there I just didn't know where to get them or if you primarily just keep them in the little cardboard box they originally came in. Thank you




Best I've got are a couple boxes for the Schiit Valhalla sets cause they hold 4, snooty Psvane boxes are good, original boxes are OK, especially for larger power tubes, the worst of my mess are baggies with padding.


----------



## Rusty143

Can anyone describe the sound if the vallhalla with the stock tubes, after full break-in?


----------



## Rusty143

Enough is enough. Going to pull the trigger on the Valhalla. What can I look forward to in terms of sonic improvement with my Sen 600s currently played through an iPhone 5? Big difference, subtle difference?


----------



## Rem0o

rusty143 said:


> Enough is enough. Going to pull the trigger on the Valhalla. What can I look forward to in terms of sonic improvement with my Sen 600s currently played through an iPhone 5? Big difference, subtle difference?


 
 From your phone alone, you should hear a definitive improvement. Will you still feed it from your Iphone? If you want a big improvement, you need to step up your whole chain, with a good DAC too.


----------



## Rusty143

I have a DAC that I am upgrading to play CDs through. I will still be playing the iPhone straight through the amp. Any suggestions for how to connect the iPhone to the DAC using coaxial? The only real option for doing this is through the Pure i20.


----------



## terrapin13

Hey Now!
  
 Very interesting discussion!  Learning a lot.  I grew up with a father that had all McIntosh tube equipment and large corner horn klipsch speakers.  My ears were tainted at a young age   I recently purchased a Valhalla and Napa-Acoustic NA-208C CD player.  I switch between listening to CDs and FLAC on Fiio F3 with my 650s.  My office mate got a Woo W7 just to show me up.  I'm feeling a bit jealous but not sure if that is warranted.  
  
 I'm considering adding a Bifrost DAC and using the digital out of the CD and F3.  Do you imagine this will produce a noticeable change in sound?
  
 I am intrigued with the idea of trying different tubes with my Vahalla.  I read this whole thread and there is a common theme of "tubes from Mr. Tom".  How does one arrange for a set of "tubes from Mr. Tom"?
  
 On the topic of tube rolling what is some advice on the best way to remove and replace tubes so as not to damage the Vahalla or the tube itself.  Do you use your fingers to rock the tube out?  I had a hard time getting one of my stock tubs into the Vahalla.  What about a "socket saver"?  Will these impact the sound?  
  
  
  
 Thanks!


----------



## terrapin13

I found the Mr. Tom thread - 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/626399/the-best-of-the-bunch-russian-tubes-for-schiit-valhalla-version-1-2


----------



## gefski

terrapin13 said:


> On the topic of tube rolling what is some advice on the best way to remove and replace tubes so as not to damage the Vahalla or the tube itself.  Do you use your fingers to rock the tube out?  I had a hard time getting one of my stock tubs into the Vahalla.  What about a "socket saver"?  Will these impact the sound?




Just cut a piece of "rubberized" shelf liner. It gives a great grip.


----------



## Rem0o

Haha I use the same stuff to remove my tubes. So useful in many places. I mainly use it to keep my phone from falling off my table.


----------



## ckyr

Thanks for the great discussion.


----------



## AtomicFrostX

> Just cut a piece of "rubberized" shelf liner. It gives a great grip.


 
  
 That's a really good idea. I'll make sure to remember this when my Valhalla 2 arrives later today.


----------



## Frederose

Where do you guys buy your tubes ? I live in Canada, is there a website where you know prices and shipping costs are cheap?


----------



## Rem0o

frederose said:


> Where do you guys buy your tubes ? I live in Canada, is there a website where you know prices and shipping costs are cheap?


 
 Ebay. There is a few good sellers there.


----------



## kodger

Tubestore.com is good too


----------



## Frederose

Thanks guys. What tubes should I get if I want a deeper bass ? I just bought some DT990 and I still lack a bit of bass...


----------



## Rem0o

frederose said:


> Thanks guys. What tubes should I get if I want a deeper bass ? I just bought some DT990 and I still lack a bit of bass...


 
 Your songs are lacking bass, because DT990 is already a bass monster! You could simply add a slight EQ bump to the < 100 Hz range when you feel like it.  Something like a curve from 3-5 db at 0 Hz to 1-2 db at 100 hz should give you that extra "Oomph".
  
 100% garranted effect


----------



## Frederose

I should have been more precise, they have a great bass, but I'm looking for that really low bass that I seem to lack, maybe something with a little more kick.


----------



## Rem0o

frederose said:


> I should have been more precise, they have a great bass, but I'm looking for that really low bass that I seem to lack, maybe something with a little more kick.


 
 Try a slight EQ in the <100 Hz region, should do the trick.


----------



## Frederose

Sadly, I don't have an EQ. My cd player goes straight into my Valhalla.


----------



## Rem0o

frederose said:


> Sadly, I don't have an EQ. My cd player goes straight into my Valhalla.


 
 Sorry mate, thought you were using a computer as a source :/

 6n6p from Novosibirsk might be what you're looking for then. Gave me the impression they had a little more punch/control in the sub bass department. Might be because they change the output impedance a little compared to the stock tubes, or it might be all happening between my two ears....


----------



## Frederose

Sub-question: Is there such a thing as a good EQ for your system? I heard that it gutted the sound quality and that it was never worth it.


----------



## Rem0o

frederose said:


> Sub-question: Is there such a thing as a good EQ for your system? I heard that it gutted the sound quality and that it was never worth it.


 
 Well, I believe any simple software EQ from a software media player can be "good". It doesn't cut anything from your music, except a few dB at the frequency you want. I don't get the general "snobbism" from the audiophile community againsn't EQ. I'd rather apply a gentle EQ curve at the 6 kHz peak of the HD800 than spending hundreds, if not thousands on gear to try to "hardware EQ" the same peak, without being sure of the outcome.

 My 2 cents on this.


----------



## Frederose

I just bought a pair of '65 Mullard EC88s and I can tell you that it is a big upgrade from the original GEs.


----------



## grmnasasin0227

Hey all--I've been lurking this thread, I'm interested in purchasing the Valhalla 2.

 I've noticed that there doesn't seem to be much discussion regarding rolling the 6N6P output tubes. 6N6P is roughly equivalent to ECC99 and E182CC, yes? Has anybody experimented with those varieties, and what did you think? Thanks!


----------



## Billheiser

rem0o said:


> Well, I believe any simple software EQ from a software media player can be "good". It doesn't cut anything from your music, except a few dB at the frequency you want. I don't get the general "snobbism" from the audiophile community againsn't EQ. I'd rather apply a gentle EQ curve at the 6 kHz peak of the HD800 than spending hundreds, if not thousands on gear to try to "hardware EQ" the same peak, without being sure of the outcome.
> 
> 
> My 2 cents on this.



The "snobbism" came from analog equalizers that did a crude job of equalizing, and added distortions and colorations. It was best to avoid those except for the rare expensive few that did a good job. Equalizing in the digital domain is a different thing, and not much objection to that.


----------



## Frederose

When applied conservatively.


----------



## Bothand Nether

is there a way to delete a triple-post?


----------



## Bothand Nether

is there a way to delete a triple-post?


----------



## Bothand Nether

grmnasasin0227 said:


> Hey all--I've been lurking this thread, I'm interested in purchasing the Valhalla 2.
> 
> I've noticed that there doesn't seem to be much discussion regarding rolling the 6N6P output tubes. 6N6P is roughly equivalent to ECC99 and E182CC, yes? Has anybody experimented with those varieties, and what did you think? Thanks!


 
 I am curious as well about , and the 7119 tube also.....


----------



## Frederose

From personal experience, I found that changing power tubes is generally a waste of money.


----------



## Frederose

Anyone tried the Gold Lions E88CC? I'm thinking about purchasing some to replace some Amperex tubes. Is it worth paying more for balanced, high-gain, matched, etc?


----------



## Bothand Nether

[size=x-small]Changing tubes in a good power amp is not a waste of money, but Your mileage may vary.[/size]
  
 [size=x-small]I could record the output difference between an EL84 & a 7189 that would sonically disprove Your opinion.[/size]
 [size=x-small]The difference between a Bendix 5992 & a chinese 6V6 is like night in day in a [/size]transparent[size=x-small] amp Like an emerysound Microbaby.[/size]
  
 [size=x-small]There is a reason the early RCA 6L6GC is worth so much, because they cannot be compared to today's crappy chinese tubes, [/size]
 [size=x-small]the harsh brittle effects of these tubes are well-documented by professional amp repairmen, as well as Major recording studios.[/size]
  
 [size=x-small]You won't find any russian or chinese tubes in the Fairchild 660's or 670 @  El Dorado, simply because they do not have the lifespan, consistency or quietness that a NOS military valve does.[/size]
  
 [size=x-small]This is fact, not opinion for the Engineers & studios that charge people like Bruce Springsteen & The cars to MIx/Master.[/size]


----------



## Frederose

Maybe I should try military grade power tubes then.


----------



## Frederose

What tubes can you put in a Valhalla other than a 6N6P ?


----------



## Rem0o

frederose said:


> What tubes can you put in a Valhalla other than a 6N6P ?


 
 The output tubes can only be ECC99/6N6P type.


----------



## Rossliew

rem0o said:


> The output tubes can only be ECC99/6N6P type.


 
 You could possibly try getting some socket savers and adapters to run 6SN7 tubes as power.


----------



## kodger

frederose said:


> Anyone tried the Gold Lions E88CC? I'm thinking about purchasing some to replace some Amperex tubes. Is it worth paying more for balanced, high-gain, matched, etc?


 
 After a recommendation my Gold Lions arrive on Friday - yes I spent the extra to have them matched - looking forward to them + adding Duende Criatura rings - tweaking is fun


----------



## Frederose

kodger said:


> After a recommendation my Gold Lions arrive on Friday - yes I spent the extra to have them matched - looking forward to them + adding Duende Criatura rings - tweaking is fun


 
 Keep me posted on this. I look forward to your review. Anyone else tried tube rings?


----------



## Frederose

rossliew said:


> You could possibly try getting some socket savers and adapters to run 6SN7 tubes as power.


 
 Where would you get good NOS ECC99, they seem rather hard to find.


----------



## kodger

Try thetubestore.com great service


----------



## Rossliew

frederose said:


> Where would you get good NOS ECC99, they seem rather hard to find.


 
 I get all my tubes over at Ebay..just need to be patient


----------



## Bothand Nether

rossliew said:


> You could possibly try getting some socket savers and adapters to run 6SN7 tubes as power.


 
 Is this really possible?

 Because I have some Jan Crc 5692 tubes which are the king of 6SN7s, and would love to hear those....


----------



## Rossliew

bothand nether said:


> Is this really possible?
> 
> Because I have some Jan Crc 5692 tubes which are the king of 6SN7s, and would love to hear those....


 
 I have checked with Schiit tech on this and they say it is possible but you will need socket savers and adapters. They did mention the voltage rail level of 200V for the Valhalla 2 may not be ideal for 6SN7s i.e. does not allow the tubes to run to its full potential. Don't think this will stop us from trying out...with care, of course.


----------



## Frederose

bothand nether said:


> Is this really possible?
> 
> Because I have some Jan Crc 5692 tubes which are the king of 6SN7s, and would love to hear those....


 
 Let me know your impressions when you do !


----------



## Amalz

http://www.head-fi.org/t/738742/valhalla-2-proplems-blew-beyer-dt-990-6000hm-i-need-help


----------



## theupandcomingc

Post deleted.


----------



## hybridamp

kodger said:


> After a recommendation my Gold Lions arrive on Friday - yes I spent the extra to have them matched - looking forward to them + adding Duende Criatura rings - tweaking is fun


 
  
 What were you impressions with the Gold Lions?  Thanks.


----------



## kodger

Very detailed in a good way I need to listen to them some more - I was having wobbly cable connection issues to my headphones too many cable adapters which do not help

I do not regret the purchase


----------



## theupandcomingc

Post deleted.


----------



## drheadphone

I have pair of 60s Russian 6N1P's myself and so far they're one my favs on the Valhalla 2. The sound is well-balanced, detailed and dimensional. I find the stock "rocket" 6N1P's slightly forward sounding and flat in terms of depth. Still very nice for a stock tube.

Internally my Russians have three sandwiched micas with the Novosibirsk pentagon logo on glass.



Another favorite is the Amperex PQ 6922 with white labels.



Like the Novo 6N1P, I'm getting a well-balanced sound and great soundstage especially paired with the HD800. It's close between the two. Both a definite step up in refinement over my pairs of Amperex Orange Globe 6DJ8, Mullard A-Frame 6DJ8, Bugle Boys, 70's Novo 6N1P and rocket 6N23P's. All good sounding tubes on my setup...



Happy listening!


----------



## Alfred143

Input Tube recommendations to warm up my bright Beyer DT990 600 omh.


----------



## Frederose

I used a pair of Mullard '66 and it really did the trick.


----------



## Alfred143

frederose said:


> I used a pair of Mullard '66 and it really did the trick.


 

 Cool Thanks, I'll keep an eye out for them online.   how critical is it to have them 'matched'?


----------



## Alfred143

frederose said:


> I used a pair of Mullard '66 and it really did the trick.


 

 What's a good/fair price for a pair of Mullard's going these days?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Folks. If you haven't heard any of the Voskhod 6n23p's , from the mid to late 70's , you're missing out. I'm currently running a pair of 78 silver shields that I purchased from a fellow headfier from the lyr forum. All I can say is WOW. it's leaps and bounds better than the stock tubes. Seek out the 75 silver shields (holy grails) as they're ranked #1. 78 silvers are #3.


----------



## punit

Well I had placed an order in Oct with shipping scheduled in Nov 3rd Week. When I send an email out inquiring about the status , Schiit replied that due to delays the new shipping date will be early December.


----------



## HPiper

I am going to be ordering a new Valhalla 2 and would like some suggestions on the best tubes to get for it to drive some HD650 headphones. If they would also sound good with the HD700's that would be a plus as well.


----------



## Guidostrunk

There's a ton of great info in the lyr tube rollers thread. They pretty much cover everything tubes. Cheers. 





hpiper said:


> I am going to be ordering a new Valhalla 2 and would like some suggestions on the best tubes to get for it to drive some HD650 headphones. If they would also sound good with the HD700's that would be a plus as well.


----------



## HPiper

guidostrunk said:


> There's a ton of great info in the lyr tube rollers thread. They pretty much cover everything tubes. Cheers.


 

 Thanks, I didn't know the Lyr and Valhalla used the same tubes.


----------



## Billheiser

hpiper said:


> Thanks, I didn't know the Lyr and Valhalla used the same tubes.


 

 They don't.


----------



## JohnBal

Actually the Lyr and the Valhalla 2 both use the 6DJ8, 6922 family of tubes. Although the V2 adds a set of output tubes the Lyr does not have. As always, experimentation is best to find the right tubes for yourself. However, some generalizations can be gleaned by reading others experiences - for a starting point anyway.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Um. they do. 6922 family. 





billheiser said:


> They don't.


----------



## Billheiser

Sorry for the misinfo, I didn't know about the 6922 family. As delivered by Schiit, the Lyr has two 6Bz7 tubes, on the input side. They recommend *against* using 6N1P tube types on the Lyr. The Valhalla comes with two 6N1P tubes on the input side, and two 6N6P tubes for output.


----------



## Mechans1

Who sells the adapters for 6922 original tube intended  to 6SN7s.  I love my 6SN7s and about a million of them (don't ask). If you can tell me of a good reliable supplier of these and other adapters I would be very grateful.
  
 Steve.


----------



## gearofwar

Hi everyone, I just recently got a Schiit Valhalla for use with my HD650 and I'm pretty newbie to this tubes rolling things. What if I want to spend only one time for new tubes. What would be the best option that i can live for long time with HD650 and Valhalla? Any help would be great. Thanks


----------



## Guidostrunk

Me personally, didn't climb an extreme ladder. I went all out and bought some 75 6n23p silver SWPG Voskhod Holy Grails. They run about 200 a pair. I have the same amp and headphones. With those tubes' I'd value the Valhalla at a $500 amp. Which I'd pay the price all day for it. Those tubes are that good. Of course , it's my opinion. 





gearofwar said:


> Hi everyone, I just recently got a Schiit Valhalla for use with my HD650 and I'm pretty newbie to this tubes rolling things. What if I want to spend only one time for new tubes. What would be the best option that i can live for long time with HD650 and Valhalla? Any help would be great. Thanks


----------



## Guidostrunk

....


----------



## gearofwar

guidostrunk said:


> Me personally, didn't climb an extreme ladder. I went all out and bought some 75 6n23p silver SWPG Voskhod Holy Grails. They run about 200 a pair. I have the same amp and headphones. With those tubes' I'd value the Valhalla at a $500 amp. Which I'd pay the price all day for it. Those tubes are that good. Of course , it's my opinion.


 

 Thanks alot, where could I find them? I have searched around but found alot of really cheap ones, not sure they are authentic or not. Also how would you describe the sound on them?


----------



## lekoross

Has anyone done or read any comparisons between the Valhalla or Valhalla 2 and the La Figaro 339?


----------



## Guidostrunk

I know they've been hard to find. Pm @rb2013 , that's who I bought mine from. He may have some decent ones to hold you over until he stocks up. The sound is amazing. Very liquid, natural, lifelike. Everything is so balanced across the frequency spectrum. The imaging and soundstage are astounding. You get a holographic/3D feel , that you get completely immersed in. It's nothing like I've ever heard before. Leaves me in awe , every time I listen. Here's rb2013 review and who discovered these tubes. Post#2229 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/2220 





gearofwar said:


> Thanks alot, where could I find them? I have searched around but found alot of really cheap ones, not sure they are authentic or not. Also how would you describe the sound on them?


----------



## HPiper

Being as the Valhalla has input and output tubes and the Lyr doesn't. Do you normally replace both input and output tubes on the Valhalla or just one or the other?


----------



## Guidostrunk

I myself did change the 6n6p output tubes with 68 Russian photon tubes. My gains on the output tubes , weren't as substantial as changing the input tubes. I did gain a little more volume and some bass impact with the 6n6p swap. Changing the input tubes to the 75 HG's was insanely good. Imo , it takes the Valhalla , to $500+ amp. The output tubes aren't as costly as the input. $40 shipped for my photons. The 75 HG's will run you about $200. But there's some really good Voskhods in a cheaper price bracket , that a lot of people are absolutely happy with. @rb2013 may have a few sets. Cheers. 





hpiper said:


> Being as the Valhalla has input and output tubes and the Lyr doesn't. Do you normally replace both input and output tubes on the Valhalla or just one or the other?


----------



## TEAMPELONE

You can obtain the better effect just only changing the preamp (you cal them input) tubes.
But you can replace also the other tubes.


----------



## lekoross

A few requests for help: Could someone please tell me which tubes are the input and which ones the output? Are the 6n23p input or output? If output, could someone recommend a relatively inexpensive pair of input tubes that would add warmth and help take the edge off of some poorer recordings?


----------



## Guidostrunk

The 6n23p tubes are input. I'd recommend starting here at post#2229, Cheers. http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/2220 





lekoross said:


> A few requests for help: Could someone please tell me which tubes are the input and which ones the output? Are the 6n23p input or output? If output, could someone recommend a relatively inexpensive pair of input tubes that would add warmth and help take the edge off of some poorer recordings?


----------



## JohnBal

lekoross said:


> A few requests for help: Could someone please tell me which tubes are the input and which ones the output? Are the 6n23p input or output? If output, could someone recommend a relatively inexpensive pair of input tubes that would add warmth and help take the edge off of some poorer recordings?


 
 Per the Schiit site: *Tube Complement: *6N1P dual triode input, 6N6P dual triode output
  
 The 6N1P are the shorter tubes in the front and can be changed if desired to any 6DJ8, E88CC, 6922, 6BZ7, and similar types. Amperex and Mullard are generally considered as somewhat warmer tube families. Look for some used from a reputable ebay seller to try some out.


----------



## lekoross

Great! Thank you! Any more insights in terms of the various models of Mullard or Amperex themselves (e.g., Amperex Bugle Boy vs. Orange, etc., etc.)? Realize it's subjective but don't want to spend a mint so have to rely on others' experiences for now until I get some experience of my own.


----------



## JohnBal

Generally either of the ones you mentioned. 6Dj8 versions of the bugle boy or Orange globe can be found reasonably priced. Check for some mullards too. Worth a try. Good luck!


----------



## lekoross

Does anyone know where (i.e., in what category) in the Head-Fi classifieds people are selling tubes? I can't seem to find them.


----------



## Mechans1

Tubes are sold in Accessories on  Audiogon  and  Audio Asylum, I am a newbee here and don't know.
*Disclaimer*, I have no financial interest in any party on the websites I mention, just providing information to a fellow phile.


----------



## Billheiser

On Head-Fi (For Sale forums), they're mostly in  http://www.head-fi.org/f/6553/cables-speakers-tweaks-accessories-for-sale-trade


----------



## lekoross

Got it. Thanks Billheiser.


----------



## lekoross

Anyone have any recommendations and/or insight into changing the output tubes?


----------



## Billheiser

lekoross said:


> Anyone have any recommendations and/or insight into changing the output tubes?


 
 
 
Schiit website FAQ says:
"Is Valhalla rollable?
Yes! The standard 6N1P input tubes can be subbed out for any 6DJ8/6922/ECC88/ECC85/6BZ7 types, including NOS, cryo-treated, voodoo-blessed, hand-assembled by elves, etc. "
 
Notice they don't mention changing the output tubes.


----------



## notsimar

billheiser said:


> Schiit website FAQ says:
> "Is Valhalla rollable?
> Yes! The standard 6N1P input tubes can be subbed out for any 6DJ8/6922/ECC88/ECC85/6BZ7 types, including NOS, cryo-treated, voodoo-blessed, hand-assembled by elves, etc. "
> 
> Notice they don't mention changing the output tubes.


 
 If you read the owners manual, it does state that the output tubes are rollable to 6H30N's and thats about it


----------



## Guidostrunk

I bought some 68 Russian NEVZ 6n6p's for $50 on ebay. Definitely added more bass impact and slam and more gain to my volume. Mid 60's to mid 70's from NEVZ plant , are the ones to look for. 
Cheers. 





lekoross said:


> Anyone have any recommendations and/or insight into changing the output tubes?


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Nevz are the common make found and are consistent over the years (mid 70s are cheap, available and good value), you will also find Foton tubes also that are are often older / cheaper if you want to try an alternative. The 6N6P-I  and 6N6P-IR are better sounding variants to the basic 6N6P but are more money. What ever you buy I suggest you stick to stuff before 1983 and preferable before 1980 for all of these tubes. The IR is better than the I and the previously mentioned 6H30N is the best but VERY expensive now, especially the DR variant and I don't think really appropriate for this little amp.


----------



## Guidostrunk

So the 6n6p does come from the foton plant? I got a little confused with these because I didn't really go crazy rolling them. I did however, buy 68 6n6p Novoibirsk(same tubes Tom bought at the beginning of this thread)which I was certain was from the foton plant. I thought the foton tube was the 6n1p input tube. My mistake. 





nic rhodes said:


> Nevz are the common make found and are consistent over the years (mid 70s are cheap, available and good value), you will also find Foton tubes also that are are often older / cheaper if you want to try an alternative. The 6N6P-I  and 6N6P-IR are better sounding variants to the basic 6N6P but are more money. What ever you buy I suggest you stick to stuff before 1983 and preferable before 1980 for all of these tubes. The IR is better than the I and the previously mentioned 6H30N is the best but VERY expensive now, especially the DR variant and I don't think really appropriate for this little amp.


----------



## Guidostrunk

What is it about the 6H30N ,that you find inappropriate , for the Valhalla? Just curious on your thoughts. If they're the best, I may grab a pair. 





nic rhodes said:


> Nevz are the common make found and are consistent over the years (mid 70s are cheap, available and good value), you will also find Foton tubes also that are are often older / cheaper if you want to try an alternative. The 6N6P-I  and 6N6P-IR are better sounding variants to the basic 6N6P but are more money. What ever you buy I suggest you stick to stuff before 1983 and preferable before 1980 for all of these tubes. The IR is better than the I and the previously mentioned 6H30N is the best but VERY expensive now, especially the DR variant and I don't think really appropriate for this little amp.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

The Nerv plant is in Russia in Novosibirsk. The Foton plant is in Tashkent city. So two separate plants in Russia both making 6N6Ns.
  
 These two plants are just 2 of about 12 or 13 major valve manufacturers in USSR. They each had their own logo / symbol and specialised in different types of tubes. Some names you will recognise, others perhaps are less well known.
  
*Svetlana Electron Devices, St. Petersburg*
*Ryazan Plant of Electronics, Ryazan*
*Reflector Corp, Saratov*
*Ulyanov, Ulyanovsk*
*Voskhod, Kaluga*
*Nevz, Novosibirsk*
*Orzep, Orel*
*Foton, Tashkent*
*October, Vinnitsa*
*Anode, Diatkovo*
*Melz, Moscow*
*Vostok, Novosibirsk*
  
 apologies if I have got spellings wrong (Cyrilic alphabet and all that) / missed any etc, Let me know if you would lie to see the corresponding symbols, they can be useful for identification (those funny line symbols on USSR tubes.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

guidostrunk said:


> What is it about the 6H30N ,that you find inappropriate , for the Valhalla? Just curious on your thoughts. If they're the best, I may grab a pair.


 
  
 Just the cost of say a 6H30P DR pair is often more than the cost of the Valhalla! Especially if you get the late 70s ones you really want and the gains are way out of step with the price. There is no doubting they are better but this is a modest amp at the end of the day and an upgrade to a 6AS7G OTL may be a far better purchase for improved sound quality. You might be better off getting an adapter and trying 5687 / E182CCs instead. I haven't done that on the Valhalla but works great on LD. Just thinking aloud on that one.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Found a nice pair
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NOS-6N30P-DR-6H30P-DR-1971-and-1977-made-tubes-VERY-HARD-TO-FIND-/161327433970?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item258fdd48f2
  
 not the same year but they look good. There is an auction on another pair but I might bid on them


----------



## Guidostrunk

Yeah. I'll bid on them in my sleep. Lol. That's an insane price on tubes. I'd definitely look at other amps, if spending cash like that. Js. 





nic rhodes said:


> Found a nice pair
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NOS-6N30P-DR-6H30P-DR-1971-and-1977-made-tubes-VERY-HARD-TO-FIND-/161327433970?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item258fdd48f2
> 
> not the same year but they look good. There is an auction on another pair but I might bid on them


----------



## Oskari

nic rhodes said:


> The Nerv plant is in Russia in Novosibirsk. The Foton plant is in Tashkent city. So two separate plants in Russia both making 6N6Ns.
> 
> These two plants are just 2 of about 12 or 13 major valve manufacturers in USSR. They each had their own logo / symbol and specialised in different types of tubes. Some names you will recognise, others perhaps are less well known.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I guess that pretty much covers it. Tashkent is in Uzbekistan, not Russia. Vinnitsa is in Ukraine.
  
 Some Svetlana tubes were made at the Svetlana Glass Factory in Malaya Vishera.
  
 You can call the _6Н6П _ *6N6P* and the _6Н30П _ *6N30P* in Latin script.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Any thoughts on the 6H30N-EB(cryo-treated)? 





nic rhodes said:


> Just the cost of say a 6H30P DR pair is often more than the cost of the Valhalla! Especially if you get the late 70s ones you really want and the gains are way out of step with the price. There is no doubting they are better but this is a modest amp at the end of the day and an upgrade to a 6AS7G OTL may be a far better purchase for improved sound quality. You might be better off getting an adapter and trying 5687 / E182CCs instead. I haven't done that on the Valhalla but works great on LD. Just thinking aloud on that one.


----------



## Oskari

nic rhodes said:


> Let me know if you would lie to see the corresponding symbols, they can be useful for identification (those funny line symbols on USSR tubes.


 
  
 What did you have in mind here, Nic?


----------



## Nic Rhodes

guidostrunk said:


> Any thoughts on the 6H30N-EB(cryo-treated)?


 
  
 Generally just a bit better than the 6N6Ps but certainly not nearly as good as the 6N30P DR variant. None too excited by the cryo treated valves in general but have not tried that one specifically. If you want to try these look for the older examples. The Valhalla seems to work well on good standard 6N1P and 6N6Ps where as Lyr need better tubes to really shine. Out of interest if you look around at 6N1Ps you will find examples from:
  
*Voskhod, Kaluga*
*Nevz, Novosibirsk*
*Orzep, Orel*
*Foton, Tashkent*
*October, Vinnitsa*
*Anode, Diatkovo*
  
 and these are made in 6N1P, 6N1P Vi and 6N1P EV variants so plenty of rolling choice there that most do not realise. No night and day differences but fun.
  
 Thanks Oskari, I have updated my info  I thought there would be a few errors.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

oskari said:


> What did you have in mind here, Nic?


 
  
 I have a one pager I have gathered with symbols (over the years) and names that I find useful which I could post if people were interested.


----------



## Oskari

nic rhodes said:


> I have a one pager I have gathered with symbols (over the years) and names that I find useful which I could post if people were interested.


 
  
 Absolutely.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Anyone know how to attach a .doc or .pdf?


----------



## Nic Rhodes




----------



## Guidostrunk

As far as input tubes go. I'm extremely happy with my 75 6n23p-Voskhod-SWPG, silver, HG's. I found a pair of matched 1972-6n6p-ir for 35 shipped. Is that a decent price for those? 





nic rhodes said:


> Generally just a bit better than the 6N6Ps but certainly not nearly as good as the 6N30P DR variant. None too excited by the cryo treated valves in general but have not tried that one specifically. If you want to try these look for the older examples. The Valhalla seems to work well on good standard 6N1P and 6N6Ps where as Lyr need better tubes to really shine. Out of interest if you look around at 6N1Ps you will find examples from:
> 
> *Voskhod, Kaluga*
> *Nevz, Novosibirsk*
> ...


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Seems a good buy, IRs from 72, the El Raydar one?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Yep. That's them. Do you think it will be a step up from 66-6n6p from foton? That's what I'm currently using. I thought they were 68's but I looked back in my ebay purchase history , and in fact they are 66. Thanks for all your help. 





nic rhodes said:


> Seems a good buy, IRs from 72, the El Raydar one?


----------



## Nic Rhodes

yes I think they will be better and probably the best solution from my point of view, mind you your current tubes aren't at all bad!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Thanks a lot Nic. Appreciate all your help. For $34 bucks , it's worth the purchase. You never know when these will be super hard to get. Cheers , man! 





nic rhodes said:


> yes I think they will be better and probably the best solution from my point of view, mind you your current tubes aren't at all bad!


----------



## Oskari

guidostrunk said:


> Yep. That's them. Do you think it will be a step up from 66-6n6p from foton? That's what I'm currently using. I thought they were 68's but I looked back in my ebay purchase history , and in fact they are 66. Thanks for all your help.


 
  
 Or you could, in fact, take a look at the tubes themselves to find out…


----------



## Oskari

nic rhodes said:


>


 
  
 Thanks! That's a very useful reference and should cover the audio types.


----------



## Oskari

For the sake of completeness, have you seen these, Nic?
  

http://www.gstube.com/factories/
http://istok2.com/factories/
http://radiomurman.ucoz.ru/index/0-14
  
 I don't think there are any additional audio type manufacturers there, though.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Never seen those, I did it the hard way! But thanks, interesting from the info I can make out. It looks like the valve makers are just a small bunch of a much larger system of 'mega' factories with logos.


----------



## Oskari

Yes, but your compilation is much easier to use. By the way, have you found a way to tell Foton valves apart from older Reflektor valves?


----------



## Oskari

nic rhodes said:


> *Voskhod, Kaluga* *Nevz, Novosibirsk*
> *Orzep, Orel*
> *Foton, Tashkent*
> *October, Vinnitsa*
> *Anode, Diatkovo*


 
  
 It is quite surprising how many factories made 6N1P variants in the USSR.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

oskari said:


> Yes, but your compilation is much easier to use. By the way, have you found a way to tell Foton valves apart from older Reflektor valves?


 

  no self taught here wrt USSR valves. It is what I have slowly pieced together over 20+ years, I even have some of the original 300b valves befor they were officially making them


----------



## lekoross

Anyone have experience with the Amperex Orange Globes?


----------



## feilb

Alright. Here's a down payment on the rolling updates I promised over in the review thread. All impressions are initial. After I get through all the tubes I've got on the way, I'll post some final thoughts and rankings.
  
 My Val 2 came stock with:
  
 6n6p - 1984 Novosibirsk (they have the newer logo, not the pentagon)
 6n1p - 1990(?) Voskhod
  
 The stock sound has good soundstage and detail. It's a little hot on the top end, and is a little bloomy in the mids. The 6n1p tubes on mine have a very low level hiss, much lower than the noise floor of most recordings.
  
*Output tubes*
  
*6N6P '71 Novosibirsk (NOS Matched) - *Bought from a US seller on ebay, though the listing was entirely in russian. Thank you google translate. The biggest difference I noticed with these tubes was that most of the bloominess in the mids was gone. Maybe a touch less hot on the high end, but nothing major. For the price I paid, this was worthwhile. I wouldn't get too worked up about the output tubes, but this was a good upgrade.
  
*Input tubes*
  
*6922 Amperex '65 Bugle Boy, Holland - *These tubes were a disappointment to me. They were very smooth through the mids and offered a little more low end bass, which was nice. The big issue with these were the high end rolloff. They muddied up the sound on the HD800s and the soundstage was much more constricted. I love the HD800 for it's detail and soundstage and these tubes took that away for smoother mids and a touch more bass over stock. Not worth it for me.
  
*ECC85 Siemens & Halske (NOS Matched) -* These tubes are a big improvement over stock for me. Not many people talk about ECC85s, but these are really fantastic. The biggest thing I would say about these tube is that they are absolutely convincing. I've never liked the word timbre, but it is about perfect here. Everything sounds real. I didn't really know what I was missing. These tubes also completely kill any bloomy fluttery mids and treble present. Very well controlled. Bass is not notably stronger over stock, nor is it recessed. Soundstage is a little less deep than stock, but retains its width and height. These roll off a tiny bit too early for me on the top end. If they kept that top end detail all the way up to 20kHz and a little more depth in soundstage, I think they'd be perfect. That being said, they could really open up over the rest of "burn-in". Who knows. That being said, i think this tube would make many people very, very happy.
  
*What I've got on the way*
  
*Voskhod '71 6N23P (NOS Matched) - *They're not the "Holy Grail" tube, but the 70s Voskhods have a big following and I'm looking forward to trying them
  
*Telefunken E88CC (NOS Matched) - *I'm very excited to try these. Got them for a great deal, and hope they compare favorably to the ECC85s.


----------



## notsimar

I really like the telefunken e88cc's (compared to the stock tubes)


----------



## FlySweep

Can the Valhalla 2 safely roll 7DJ8 (7v) tubes ?


----------



## feilb

Should be ok. 7DJ8 = PCC88. There are some people who have reported success with these tubes. The major difference between 7DJ8 and 6DJ8 is the heater voltage (7.6V nominal vs 6.3V nominal). That being said, the amp determines the heater voltage, so if Val is designed for 6V heaters, the 7 will run at 6V. This will theoretically make the tube last longer but emission will be lower than rated. Good news. That probably won't matter unless you're really pushing the tube very hard (maybe harder than the Val is designed to go).
  
 TL;DR - Yep, they'll work just fine


----------



## JohnBal

flysweep said:


> Can the Valhalla 2 safely roll 7DJ8 (7v) tubes ?


 
 E-mail Schiit directly to be sure. They would know.


----------



## FlySweep

feilb said:


> Should be ok. 7DJ8 = PCC88. There are some people who have reported success with these tubes. The major difference between 7DJ8 and 6DJ8 is the heater voltage (7.6V nominal vs 6.3V nominal). That being said, the amp determines the heater voltage, so if Val is designed for 6V heaters, the 7 will run at 6V. This will theoretically make the tube last longer but emission will be lower than rated. Good news. That probably won't matter unless you're really pushing the tube very hard (maybe harder than the Val is designed to go).
> 
> TL;DR - Yep, they'll work just fine


 
  
 Thanks Felib.. so the only (potential) caveat to rolling 7DJ8s in the Valhalla 2 is that.. despite the V2 being compatible with this tube type.. the 7DJ8 *might* not run at it's optimum spec (7v), so the 7DJ8 might not sound as good as it's capable of sounding?  That isn't to say it'll sound bad.. just not *as* good as it would if it was rolled into a 7v circuit.
  


johnbal said:


> E-mail Schiit directly to be sure. They would know.


 
  
 Yep, I've emailed them just for confirmation, I'll post the answer once I receive it.


----------



## feilb

I doubt that it would make much of a difference audibly, but you are right to say that they are technically not running at spec. You may even get lower noise out of a tube because you're not driving the heater as hard.


----------



## FlySweep

Thanks, felib.. also, I heard back from Nick T. at Schiit (I emailed him around 1pm, got a reply back 20 mins later.. whoa!).  He stated the 7DJ8 is, indeed, compatible with the Valhalla 2.. huzzah!


----------



## Puma Cat

So, I received some Amperex 7308s last week from Upscale for use in my Val 2. These are reputedly a mil-spec style tube with tighter tolerances and increased durability over the Amperex 6922s that I've been using my Val 2 (which I took out of my CJ Premier 17LS preamp to try over the stock JJ 6N1Ps). I really liked very much what the Amperex 6922s did for Val 2, so I ordered these for permanent use in my Val 2 so I could put my 6922 Amperexes back in my Pr17 preamp. I somewhat mistakenly ordered Amperex 7308s as I thought that is what I pulled out of my Pr17, as they had an orange PQ label on them, and I have Amperex tube boxes with 7308 on them, so I thought that's what these were. 

 It was only when I pulled out them out of Val2 to put in the new NOS tubes and looked at them closely did I realize the Pr17 Amperexes were actually 6922s, not 7308s. The confusing about this is that Amperex used identical orange "PQ" labels for both 6922s _AND_ 7308s, apparently. 

 I installed the Amperex 7308s in Val 2 last night, and have been comparing them to my Amperex 6922s. These 7308s are white label JAN tubes and are NOS. There are some differences I am hearing, but those differences may be initially due to the 7308s being NOS, and have no burn-in time on them. When I first listened to them last night, they were a bit bright and glare-y, but after about an hour of use, they started to sound much nicer, smoothed out and the high-end glare abated. I swapped the Amperexes 6922s back in before finishing up last night, and at that time,  I still preferred them over the 7308s, but I've done another swap of the 7308s back in tonight, and they are coming in to their own quite nicely. 

 Initial impressions are just that, but here's where I am presently for reference: The 7308s appear to be a bit more neutral, perhaps a bit more resolving, but not quite as "palpable" , full-bodied and textured as the 6922s; the highs on the 6922s might be slightly more laid back than the 7308s, but I'm not going to make any final judgements until I get more hours on the 7308s, they've improved quite a bit just over the course of a few hours last night and tonight. 

 I've experienced rather significant changes in tubes as they burn in; I bought a pair of Ediswan 6922s for use in my CJ LP70S power amp, and initially did not like them at all, but eventually decided to leave them in and get some good hours on them, and ended up preferring them over the Electro-Harmonic tubes the amp originally came with. Ediswans are a lovely 6922, BTW, so those of you interested in considering these, I would give them a go. They are on the pricey side at $95/ea but one of the nicest 6922s I've heard. 

 More updates in time, but thought I would give this initial set of impressions, as I had a query via PM about the differences between the Amperex 6922s vs the 7308s.


----------



## Puma Cat

Note added in passing: 
 Okay, so it turns out I *do* have orange-label Amperex PQ 7308s as I had originally thought. I was mixing and matching these in my Premier 17; there are two sockets per channel and you can mix and match different 6922s variants in the no. 1 and no. 2 slots, so I had an Amperex 7308 and an Amperex 6922 in the first and second socket for each channel, respectively. 

 So, what I can compare now are also the "orange label PQ" 6922s, "orange label PQ" 7308s, and white-label JAN 7308s. Will keep y'all apprised of my tube rolling findings.


----------



## kirayamato

what would be the best tubes to roll for hd 800  i have the valhalla 2 I listen to pop music usually the latest songs i do listen to alot of old songs but would prefer it to be the best on pop music and i prefer soundstage and wouldn't like it lowered by another tube for something else so basically if there is a clear cut upgrade thats what i would want


----------



## lekoross

Does anyone know if the Valhalla 2 can take ecc189 tubes?


----------



## feilb

They look very comparable on paper. Pinout is the same, heater voltage is the same. Heater current is the same. I'd give it a shot if you have one. Not sure the differences other than basic stats.


----------



## lekoross

Checked with Nick at Schiit. Said they will technically work but won't sound as good because of the difference in mu.


----------



## Rossliew

Would someone be willing to try using 6SN7s as power tubes (with the appropriate adapter of course)? Schiit tech has confirmed this is OK with the V2 but may not be using the 6SN7 to their full potential.


----------



## Rem0o

rossliew said:


> Would someone be willing to try using 6SN7s as power tubes (with the appropriate adapter of course)? Schiit tech has confirmed this is OK with the V2 but may not be using the 6SN7 to their full potential.


 
 If you can get them to fit in there... Would look like a frankenstein amp with those on socket extenders + adapters!


----------



## Rossliew

rem0o said:


> If you can get them to fit in there... Would look like a frankenstein amp with those on socket extenders + adapters!


 
 Yeah, you're right. Might need some slim socket savers to support the adapters. Much easier with the Little Dot amps though. But it helps open up a whole new playground with the 6SN7 tubes


----------



## Puma Cat

So, after quite a bit of extended listening and comparisons, I've settled on Amperex 6922s (PQ orange label) as my tube of choice for my Valhalla 2. I also tried Amperex 7308 JAN white label and Amperex 7308 PQ orange label, but ended up preferring the 6922s overall. 
  
 At some point in time, I may swap in my Ediswan 6922s, but I'm good to go at this point, as far as tube rolling goes.


----------



## kirayamato

kirayamato said:


> what would be the best tubes to roll for hd 800  i have the valhalla 2 I listen to pop music usually the latest songs i do listen to alot of old songs but would prefer it to be the best on pop music and i prefer soundstage and wouldn't like it lowered by another tube for something else so basically if there is a clear cut upgrade thats what i would want


 
 bump any help?


----------



## lekoross

Hey, you might want to check out the Lyr Tube Rolling thread. Much more information there and a lot of people have the 800's. I have the 650's. I have some tubes for sale, including rb2013's '74 Holy Grails. i don't believe you'll find a better tube for the money -except the '75's, but he doesn't have them now and who knows when he'll get them? I know he uses the HD800.


----------



## feilb

The siemens ecc85 was my favorite with the hd800. The Tele e88cc were fantastically detailed but the ecc85 had so much better low end. I've got a pair that I'm not using of the siemens if you are interested.


----------



## rb2013

Hi Guys - I'm pretty active over on the Lyr tube rolling thread -and have a large collection of 6n1p's, 6n5p's and 6n23p's.
  
 I am thinking of getting a Val or Val 2 and doing  a big mod project on it.  Basically using a larger case and upgraded all the caps, especially replacing those Wima caps (little red boxes).
  
 Has anyone tried the E99CC as a driver tube?  It looks like they are compatible.
  
 I have 6n1p 72's(Novo), '74's (Voskhod), '75's (Voskhod), and the very rare triple mica '66 black anode Novo's available.  Also some of the '70s Voskhod Rocket 6n23p's.  These are all matched and test - PM if interested.
  
 I'll be checking the classifieds for a used Val for purchase or trade.
  
 Cheers!
 Bob


----------



## feilb

Bob,
  
 I've got a pair of Amperex PQ E182CCs. Problem is that the pinout is different. I've got some socket savers i intended to modify to match the pinout.
  
 I dumped my Val 2 because i thought I was going to go ortho. Ended up not preferring LCD3s to HD800s, but now I've got a Burson soloist, which is nice in its own right. I don't have the cash to pick up a V2 right now.
  
 Let me know if you ever get ahold of one. I'd be happy to modify a set of socket savers and send you my tubes for what i paid for them ($45)


----------



## rb2013

feilb said:


> Bob,
> 
> I've got a pair of Amperex PQ E182CCs. Problem is that the pinout is different. I've got some socket savers i intended to modify to match the pinout.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the reply.  So I guess the E99CC I believe has different pinouts to the E182CC (my APL DAC uses the ECC99's - and Alex gave me the pinout mods to use the E182CC).  I'll have to check to see if the 6N6P is the same as the ECC99.  I was able to swap in 12BH7's for the 99's.  I will check on that tube as well.
  
 So you had the HD800 and the LCD3's and liked the HD800's better?  If you kept the HD800's try the Moon Black Dragon V2 cable - it made all the difference for me.  Cured the sibilance and filled out and deepened the Bass.
  
 I decided to go for the Val2 - as to it greater grunt. 
  
 I will take you up on the modded socket savers and E182CC's!  Were should I send the money?  I have some very nice Amperex 7119 equivalents.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

Oh found this:
  
 http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/185900-6n6p-ecc99-e182cc.html


> hey're all closely related, but not identical.
> 
> 6N6P is a Russian-made twin triode (medium mu, 9 pin mini). Pin-out is same as ECC88, 6DJ8 and kin. 6.3V filament on pins 4 and 5.
> 
> ...


----------



## feilb

Bob,
  
 I'm about 99% sure that ECC99 does not have the same pinout as 6N6P. ECC99 and E182CC both have the dual voltage heater. The 6N6P only has 6.3V heater. 
  
 Thus the ECC99 and E182CC have 3 heater pins, one for either end and a center tap. If wired in parallel, they are 6.3C, if series then 12. Please do not just plug in ECC99 to your Val!
  
 The 6N6P tubes use that extra pin for a grounded screen between the two triodes.


----------



## rb2013

feilb said:


> Bob,
> 
> I'm about 99% sure that ECC99 does not have the same pinout as 6N6P. ECC99 and E182CC both have the dual voltage heater. The 6N6P only has 6.3V heater.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the advice!  I trust you more then that website.  So would those modded socket savers work for the ECC99/12BH7 like the E182CC/7119's.  In other words wire the voltage in parallel (6.3V) not series (12V).  Yes 6Volt heaters don't like to supply 12V's - they tend to complain with smoke and sparks! LOL!


----------



## rb2013

rb2013 said:


> Thanks for the advice!  I trust you more then that website.  So would those modded socket savers work for the ECC99/12BH7 like the E182CC/7119's.  In other words wire the voltage in parallel (6.3V) not series (12V).  Yes 6Volt heaters don't like to supply 12V's - they tend to complain with smoke and sparks! LOL!


 

 I think I answered my own question - as the pinouts are different.  Never mind.  I am anixous to be able to use wide array of E182CC and 7119's in the Val2.


----------



## feilb

It would work for all E182CC/7119 (which are the same, just EU vs US part numbers) and the ECC99s. All would be configured to use 6.3V heaters. The Amperex i have are actually 7119 parts, as they are marketed for US. If thats the case, you may already have an identical set?


----------



## rb2013

feilb said:


> It would work for all E182CC/7119 (which are the same, just EU vs US part numbers) and the ECC99s. All would be configured to use 6.3V heaters. The Amperex i have are actually 7119 parts, as they are marketed for US. If thats the case, you may already have an identical set?


 

 On My APL DAC - which uses the ECC99 and will run the 12BH7 - I was told by the designer that:
  


> Hi Bob,
> 
> Here are the data sheets for both tubes:
> 
> ...


 
   Then provided this diagram for the pin rewiring:
  


 Unfortunately without a major unsodlering job - no access to the bottom of the tube sockets.  And no room for a tube riser.
  
 PS I still want yours as my DAC only uses one tube and I have only a single.  The Val2 would need a pair.  So still interested.


----------



## feilb

His pin swap will work because 12BH7, ECC99/E182CC are all dual heater voltage tubes. To adapt it to 6N6P pinout which only supports 6.3V (which is the same as ECC88/7308/6922/ECC85/6N1P)
  
 6N6P socket    ->    E182CC/ECC99 tube
  
 1                            1         (a')
 2                            2         (g')
 3                            3         (k')
 4                            4, 5     (ends of heater)
 5                            8         (center of heater)
 6                            9         (a)
 7                            7         (g)
 8                            6         (k)
 9                            NC      (grounded triode separation shield on 6n6p, does not exist in E182CC)


----------



## BobFiggins

Never tube rolled before. My full experience has been sticking the Valhalla 2 tubes in that came with it.
  
 With that said, are there any tubes for the Val2, that can keep the energy of the music like the stock tubes, but roll off the treble a little bit? Looking for some ease in the sibilance with my HD700. Thanks!


----------



## rb2013

bobfiggins said:


> Never tube rolled before. My full experience has been sticking the Valhalla 2 tubes in that came with it.
> 
> With that said, are there any tubes for the Val2, that can keep the energy of the music like the stock tubes, but roll off the treble a little bit? Looking for some ease in the sibilance with my HD700. Thanks!


 

 I would try the '71, '72 or '73 Voskhod 6N23P Gray Shield with the single wire getter post.  They are very smooth in the high end and yet have excellent dynamics.  They're around $40 for a matched pair.
  
 Generally the 6N23p is a smoother tube then the 6N1P.  With the possible exception of the very rare '66 Voshkod triple mice black anode 6n1p.
  
 As a side note - I upgraded the cable on my HD800 to the Moon Black Dragon V2 - What a nice improvement.  The best was the complete elimination of the Senn Sibilance.  A richer tonality - more LCDish - yet still neutral.  Deeper bass as well.  I think without this cord I would have sold my HD800s for the LCD-3s.  Now it's the best of both worlds.
 Keep an eye on the classifieds as the Moon cables come up sometimes.  I think the HD700's uses the same connector as the HD800's - but I would check first.


----------



## BobFiggins

rb2013 said:


> I would try the '71, '72 or '73 Voskhod 6N23P Gray Shield with the single wire getter post.  They are very smooth in the high end and yet have excellent dynamics.  They're around $40 for a matched pair.
> 
> Generally the 6N23p is a smoother tube then the 6N1P.  With the possible exception of the very rare '66 Voshkod triple mice black anode 6n1p.
> 
> ...


 
 The HD700 uses a different connector. Is this the one you are using?
 http://www.moon-audio.com/black-dragon-headphone-cable-v2.html
  
 I was under the impression for tube amps you want a silver wire, instead of copper. Though if I need copper to remove sibilance, is this what I'd pick, as it's also copper? http://www.moon-audio.com/blu3-dragon-cable-sennheiser-hd700-headphones.html
  
 Also as for the information I appreciate it, however I don't really understand it. I know the Valhalla 2 uses two different types of tubes, so which one goes where? Would the 6N23P go on the left/right side top, and another different type of tube go in the other two lower slots? Or do you not replace all the tubes in the Valhalla 2, just the large ones? I really am clueless when it comes to this, I think I need a ELI5 for the Valhalla 2, since it uses 4 tube slots, I'm assuming the left side is the left channel, and the right side is the right channel? Though what tubes go where?


----------



## rb2013

bobfiggins said:


> The HD700 uses a different connector. Is this the one you are using?
> http://www.moon-audio.com/black-dragon-headphone-cable-v2.html
> 
> I was under the impression for tube amps you want a silver wire, instead of copper. Though if I need copper to remove sibilance, is this what I'd pick, as it's also copper? http://www.moon-audio.com/blu3-dragon-cable-sennheiser-hd700-headphones.html
> ...


 

 Yes that's them!  Funny Story when I first got my HD800's years ago - I bought an after market cable for it.  There was only a couple at the time - I loved what it did for the 800's  It failed after many years of daily use and I went back to stock.  What a let down - gone was the rich tone and deep bass -and back was the sibilance.  So decided to go all out a SAA endorphin.  He had a 6 months wait list at the time and it was like $700 in a 10ft.  So I stumbled on to the Moon -it was way cheaper and immediately available.  I still intended to get the SAA - but fell in love with the Moon Black Dragon V2 after a long breakin.  At the time Drew recommended the Black (copper) for the HD800's
  
 I still have it and love it - very well made. And yes the silver will not tame the sibilance like the copper will.
  
 The Val2 uses a signal tube  -6n1p/6n23p/6922/E88C - and an output tube 6n6p.  The signal tube in the Lyr is the same - the output in the Lyr are class Mosfet solid state outputs.  Most of the rolling in the Val2 is the signal tube - as there really isn't much available in the way of different 6n6p's.  The 6n23p/6n1p are the smaller tube in the front - side y side for left and right - check the manual.  You can give Schiit a call they'll walk you through it - it's not to complicated.


----------



## BobFiggins

Ah, thanks for clarifying.
  
 Would the Voskhod 6N23P Gray Shield be like mixing an OTL amp with a tube amp in terms of sound? Dynamic, but still slightly more relaxed?


----------



## rb2013

bobfiggins said:


> Ah, thanks for clarifying.
> 
> Would the Voskhod 6N23P Gray Shield be like mixing an OTL amp with a tube amp in terms of sound? Dynamic, but still slightly more relaxed?


 

 Yes - smoother in the highs.  Now going up the latter to the better 6n23p's gets you all kinds of other improvements.  But for low $ - the early '70's SWGP 6n23p Voskhods are very hard to beat.


----------



## feilb

You might also try Siemens & Halske ECC85s. It was an outstanding tube for me when I had my valhalla 2.


----------



## BobFiggins

feilb said:


> You might also try Siemens & Halske ECC85s. It was an outstanding tube for me when I had my valhalla 2.


 
  
 Could you describe how they sound?


----------



## feilb

They tend to be warm with a nice full mid-low end and a little rolled off above say 10k. I tried them against the Tele E88CCs and while there was no comparison for sheer detail and soundstage, I preferred the ECC85s.


----------



## truly194

So i don't have a schiit Valhalla, but iv'e got different OTL which basis on 6N1P and 6N6P tubes too.
  
 But i'm very confused about brand tubes i have. 
  
 I have no 3 pairs of tubes - 6N1P - EW, 6N6P, 6N1P - WI. All of them have inscription "OTK", and rhombus in the logo - looks like logo of Foton or old Reflector logo. But in this rhombus is also number "6". I can't find this logo brand anywhere. Maybe You know what is it?


----------



## rb2013

truly194 said:


> So i don't have a schiit Valhalla, but iv'e got different OTL which basis on 6N1P and 6N6P tubes too.
> 
> But i'm very confused about brand tubes i have.
> 
> I have no 3 pairs of tubes - 6N1P - EW, 6N6P, 6N1P - WI. All of them have inscription "OTK", and rhombus in the logo - looks like logo of Foton or old Reflector logo. But in this rhombus is also number "6". I can't find this logo brand anywhere. Maybe You know what is it?


 

 Do you have some pictures?


----------



## truly194

This is my 6N1P - WI. The same logo on all of my russian tubes.
  
 I have also box for them, but im not shure if this is original box.


----------



## rb2013

truly194 said:


> This is my 6N1P - WI. The same logo on all of my russian tubes.
> 
> I have also box for them, but im not shure if this is original box.


 

 Any other date codes or marking (like 6H1N)?  By the dual straight wire getter posts they look to be very early to mid 60's Nevz - or Novosibirsk


----------



## Oskari

truly194 said:


>


 
  
 That's the newer NEVZ symbol; should be on the tubes as well.


----------



## Oskari

truly194 said:


> I have no 3 pairs of tubes - 6N1P - EW, 6N6P, 6N1P - WI. All of them have inscription "OTK", and rhombus in the logo - looks like logo of Foton or old Reflector logo. But in this rhombus is also number "6". I can't find this logo brand anywhere. Maybe You know what is it?


 
  
 It's a quality control mark.


----------



## truly194

OK 
  
 so how i can get know what fabric made this tubes?
  


oskari said:


> That's the newer NEVZ symbol; should be on the tubes as well.


 
  
 The NEVZ logo is in different way


----------



## Oskari

truly194 said:


> OK
> 
> so how i can get know what fabric made this tubes?
> 
> ...


 
  
 No, it isn't. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 That's NEVZ-Soyuz of Novosibirsk.
  
 Novosibirskii elektrovakuumnyi zavod "Soyuz" in full.


----------



## truly194

Oh, come on. Based on picture from this topic it looks different.  It is wrapped in different way 
  
 On the tube :
  
 "6H1U - BN" - in cyrylica. The "U" is downside up.
 And in the enxt line : "90 'symbol like ont eh box' 10"


----------



## Oskari

truly194 said:


>


 
  
 That is the correct way…
  


truly194 said:


> Oh, come on. Based on picture from this topic it looks different.  It is wrapped in different way


 
  
 … and the different way is wrong. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


truly194 said:


> "6H1U - BN" - in cyrylica. The "U" is downside up.
> And in the enxt line : "90 'symbol like ont eh box' 10"


 
  
 1990 NEVZ then.


----------



## truly194

Look again


----------



## Oskari

truly194 said:


>


 
  
 Correct on the left, mistaken on the right.


----------



## truly194

Ok, checked on the other site and this is it 
  
 What producents are You reccomend? i want 6N1P and 6N23P.


----------



## BleaK

Have a pair of 60's Foton 6N6P and some 70's Reflector (I think) 6N23P-EV on the way, looking forward to testing and hearing some new tubes


----------



## BleaK

60's Fotons 6N6P in and have 10 hours of them. Some subtle improvements for sure, but standing out is a slight fuller lower midrange/upper bass. Really worthwhile upgrade for some cheap tubes.


----------



## Melange

Hi guys, I was wondering if someone could give me a tube recommendation. I've had a Valhalla 2 for a couple of months, and while I'm mostly satisfied with it, I find that it can be lacking in both power and extension in the bass (particularly the sub-bass), and has a slight glare (for lack of a better word) in the upper midrange and treble. Is there a tube out there that can rectify these two issues without breaking the bank? A price of under €150 for a pair would be ideal. Thanks.


----------



## Puma Cat

bobfiggins said:


> Never tube rolled before. My full experience has been sticking the Valhalla 2 tubes in that came with it.
> 
> With that said, are there any tubes for the Val2, that can keep the energy of the music like the stock tubes, but roll off the treble a little bit? Looking for some ease in the sibilance with my HD700. Thanks!


 

 Amperex 6922s or Mullards.


----------



## lekoross

I agree with the Amperex or Mullards (from the Blackburn, England plant), but I'd stay with the Amperex from Herleen, Holland (delta symbol [right triangle] on etched date codes) over the U.S. Amperex tubes, and I'd personally take the e188cc's (Europe's 7308) over the e88cc's (Europe's 6922). The sound is the same yet they have a longer heater life and the triodes are better matched.


----------



## Velorium

Any recommendation for tubes to give me a wider soundstage?


----------



## lekoross

velorium said:


> Any recommendation for tubes to give me a wider soundstage?


 
  
 Although there are other tubes I may enjoy more overall, the widest soundstage I've heard is the Siemens CCa grey shields, 1959-1965. No other tube I've heard has this 3D holographic dimensionality (or detail). Granted, they're not cheap!


----------



## worminater

I think one of my tubes might be going; I get a slight buzz on certain frequencies on the right channel, changes ear when i reverse cables and follows on different source (Albeit much more pronounced on my Modi compared to line-out from my cell phone, but that might just be clarity?)
  
 Any recommendations on aftermarket tubes to buy/where to get them? 
  
 I'm not usually one to nickel-dime things after the fact (10 sets of tubes to roll) but this seems like the time to investigate rather than just buying a new set from Schiit.


----------



## Velorium

****.. Thanks & noted lol. I don't suppose you're aware of a midway point, say $60-120 a pair?


----------



## Puma Cat

lekoross said:


> Although there are other tubes I may enjoy more overall, the widest soundstage I've heard is the Siemens CCa grey shields, 1959-1965. No other tube I've heard has this 3D holographic dimensionality (or detail). Granted, they're not cheap!


 

 Laurence,
 Are those the same Siemens you showed me when we met up last month? 
  
 Cheers,
 Stephen


----------



## lekoross

puma cat said:


> lekoross said:
> 
> 
> > Although there are other tubes I may enjoy more overall, the widest soundstage I've heard is the Siemens CCa grey shields, 1959-1965. No other tube I've heard has this 3D holographic dimensionality (or detail). Granted, they're not cheap!
> ...


 
  
 No, these were recently acquired from Brent Jessee - 1965 Siemens CCa. They have the widest soundstage of any tube I've heard. Doesn't mean they're the 'best', of course. The German tubes seem to excel in detail and soundstage, the Hollands in warmth and liquidity. The Russian 6n23p SWGP Silver Shield Reflektors, however, seem to pull them both together in one tube - wide soundstage, excellent detail, smoothness, and warmth (more detail and soundstage than the Hollands and more warmth than the Siemens CCa's - even though they may have slightly _less _detail/soundstage than the Siemens and slightly _less _warmth than the Hollands). It all depends on what I'm listening to. I love the German tubes (Siemens/Telefunken) for Classical and the Amperex Hollands or Mullard Blackburns for Jazz. The Reflektors are great in either genre, having "the best of both worlds."


----------



## lekoross

velorium said:


> Any recommendation for tubes to give me a wider soundstage?


 
  
 I would say the best guide out now for top tube comparisons is the one just done by fellow head-fier rb2013. Here is the link: 
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes


----------



## lekoross

***BEWARE**     **DANGER**      **PROCEED WITH CAUTION***
  
  
 I have discovered what may indeed be an individual or ring of counterfeit tube sellers on eBay based in Berlin, Germany that goes by various aliases. Here are three:
  
  
*miaratona, limon01, tatazu74*
  
  
 This seller seems to have an unlimited stock of high end, pristine tubes. Here is what I have found:
  
  
  
 1. The seller rotates around these aliases for his sales.
  
 2. He sells high-end tubes: Telefunken CCa's & e188cc's, Siemens CCa's grey plates, and Valvo Yellow Label CCa's, among others.
  
 3. The tubes are always pristine.
  
 4. The tubes are always in new boxes but appropriate for the time period of the tube
  
 5. Each post has the same wording and is apparently checked by the same tester (Neuberger RPM375).
  
 6. Date codes or other pictures besides the front of the tubes are never shown.
  
 7. The bidding for these high-end tubes always starts at $1.08.
  
  
  
 Here are a few links to some present ones being sold under Limon01:
  
  
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-great-tested-CCa-Telefunken-E88CC-6922-/201321602067?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item2edfb3dc13
  
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-great-tested-CCa-Siemens-Halske-grey-Plate-E88CC-6922-/201321605774?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item2edfb3ea8e
  
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-good-tested-CCa-Valvo-yellow-labeled-E88CC-6922-/201321606578?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item2edfb3edb2
  
  
 A simple search through the sold items of these three aliases will reveal what I am explaining here. 
  
 I purchased a few items from this seller under the name "Miariatona" and had a very interesting experience, eventually getting the eBay resolution center involved. If you are interested in hearing about it I would be happy to share my experience, one which further leads me to believe that these are counterfeit tubes. 
  
 Just passing this along to my tube brothers for your own sakes. Proceed with caution.....


----------



## nordattack

The stock tubes that are sold with the Valhalla 2 are NOS tubes.
 What exactly is different about the NOS tubes that you found?


----------



## WifiWizard

I wanted to make sure I am looking at the correct tube.  I have found a Matched Pair of ECC85's but they are also calling them 6AQ8.  I just want to be sure i am looking at the correct tubes.
  
 Thanks, John


----------



## feilb

ECC85s work great. Behind the Amperex USN CEP 7308 I have, the siemens ECC85 is my favorite.


----------



## marek17

Valhalla2 will support these tubes (tube rolling> 6N1P)
6922 OK
ECC88 OK
6DJ7 OK
E6B7 OK
ECC85 OK
---------
ECC83S 9pin-NOVAL Double triode ,
12AX7 9pin-NOVAL Doble triode,
7025 9pin-NOVAL Doble triode,
12AY7 
ECC83 ?
5751 ?
7308 ?
E188CC ?
ECC803 ?
12BH7A ?
ECH81 ?
EM84 ?
PCL86 ?
EF94 ?
EM80 ?
ECC82 ?
6N3P ?
EL34 ?
EL84 ?
eZ80 ?
EC92 ?
ECC81 ?
EF80 ?

???


----------



## feilb

E188CC are fine (7308 are the same thing). None of the rest in your list are pin compatible, though some could potentially be used with tube adapters in some cases. 
  
 The thing will also work w/ 7v heater tubes like PCC88/7dj8.
  
 Also never heard of e6b7.


----------



## Fegefeuer

First of all thanks a lot to *feilb* for helping me to get a basic understanding of all this. 
 Since I had defective 6n6p tubes I replaced them with a 1980s batch (also a recommendation of feilb) and not only is the channel balance back, the slight buzz also went away and I seem to have a clearer background now, some may call it blackground.
  
 Second:
  
 I rolled the ECC85 in the last few days and it tends to give the HD 800 a dark character with a more hefty low ned, however the rolloff removes noticable more "air" than the standard 6N1P. So far they are not to my liking. 
  
 Next up: EC88 (pretty expensive though) and? I'm up for a new ideas.


----------



## marek17

Next week I should come by Valhalla2. I Decide what to buy tubes of Russian 6N1P place. It may well be that I'll defective tubes. I own headphones Beyerdynamic T1 @ 600 Ohms, but I do not know what manufacturer will have high quality and cheap tubes. (JJ, TESLA, Harmonix, TAD, Telefunken, Genalex ....) Of course, to put tubes pair with T1.

http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/index.php?language=en

Beyerdynamic T1 + Schiit Valhalla2 + Stock 6n1p/6n6p Tubes


----------



## lekoross

Hey Guys, 
  
 Selling out a bunch of tubes from my stock - e188cc's, e88cc's, CCa's, Mullard Blackburns, rb2013's HG's & Voskhod rockets... Link is below: 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/774707/tubes-for-sale-cca-hg-e188cc-e88cc-ecc88


----------



## bretemm

Yesterday my Valhalla2 came in, 
So far I've noticed more details in vocal and guitar and background noice kinda, 

Who regularly rolls their tubes? 
Where and what are some good tubes?


----------



## bretemm

What is a good tube that's great for the GreatfulDead?


----------



## Redshift Rider

I am relatively new to rolling.
 Played around with russian 6n1p family for a bit and enjoyed the 60's novosibirsk 6n1p-e the most. Smooth, good detail and good soundstage.
  
 Right now i'm experimenting with PCC88 tubes.
 70's Valvo PCC88 (made by philips harleen) rocks very hard. Great thundering bass, colorful mids and little bit of sparkle at the top. Very, very musical. More transparency than 6n1p-e, just as good soundstage but better imaging (and larger instruments) with a bit more of "3D" effect. Very nice step up.
 Grabbed a pair for 30$ (with shipping) at ebay. Highly recommended.
  
 Also have Telefunken PCC88 made by Siemens which i've been listening for a week. More neutral than Valvo PCC88, and it has a bit larger images and a bit better resolution. Highs are more "true"  . Soundstage size seems about the same, but with pinpoint instrument placing. Smoothest tube i have heard yet. Paid 50$ for a pair.


----------



## bretemm

I've now used my new Valhalla2 a handful of times now (possibly about 3 hours or a little over) and vs my magni and modi, the V2 seems more of a open farther away sound (good) and not as upfront loud as the magni and modi. It seems like I can go louder with the V2 and it dosnt fatigue my ears as much and I hear more detail. I would always end up not hearing well after listened to the magni + modi, for some reason I'm not wanting to turn the volume up allot on the V2.
(A tube keeps being loose after I turn it off tho basicly everytime, the 2 short tubes are fine)

I'm wanting tubes latter on that give more of a warm sound


----------



## notfitforpublic

bretemm said:


> I've now used my new Valhalla2 a handful of times now (possibly about 3 hours or a little over) and vs my magni and modi...


 
 Are you still using the Modi as your DAC for the V2?


----------



## bretemm

Yes, why? Is that ok vs the bifrost? I like the bifrost but I'm not too sure when I'll get it if I do 





notfitforpublic said:


> Are you still using the Modi as your DAC for the V2?


----------



## notfitforpublic

bretemm said:


> Yes, why? Is that ok vs the bifrost? I like the bifrost but I'm not too sure when I'll get it if I do




Ha! Funny, I was gonna ask you the same question. Using the modi 2 with the V2 and was wondering if you had a comparison of the 2. Already decided on the Bifrost but the Canadian dollar is in the crapper right now so actively looking for one (new or used) in Canada.


----------



## bretemm

Aw sorry, yea I think I'll get it at some point, but, I wish it had more inputs or out puts or support more channels because I would like to use it with my marantz. I like more then using 2 speakers for what Schiit supportes and like more of a surround. 





notfitforpublic said:


> Ha! Funny, I was gonna ask you the same question. Using the modi 2 with the V2 and was wondering if you had a comparison of the 2. Already decided on the Bifrost but the Canadian dollar is in the crapper right now so actively looking for one (new or used) in Canada.


----------



## bretemm

I would get the Loki but that's usb powered





notfitforpublic said:


> Ha! Funny, I was gonna ask you the same question. Using the modi 2 with the V2 and was wondering if you had a comparison of the 2. Already decided on the Bifrost but the Canadian dollar is in the crapper right now so actively looking for one (new or used) in Canada.


----------



## Taowolf51

Are these the correct socket savers for the Valhalla?

 https://www.tubedepot.com/products/9-pin-socket-saver
  
 Also, how do you guys remove the socket savers? I can't imagine it being easy.


----------



## MekraC

taowolf51 said:


> Are these the correct socket savers for the Valhalla?
> 
> https://www.tubedepot.com/products/9-pin-socket-saver
> 
> Also, how do you guys remove the socket savers? I can't imagine it being easy.


 
  
 I am looking at these right now  http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NOVIB-McMurdo , I am not sure if I would trust those cheap sets.


----------



## Taowolf51

mekrac said:


> I am looking at these right now  http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NOVIB-McMurdo , I am not sure if I would trust those cheap sets.


 
  
 I don't really see any reason why socket savers should cost $30 a pop, that's $120 for a set for the V2. For what you get, $2.50 doesn't seem unusually cheap, plus it's not like it's being sold by some random chinese ebayer.


----------



## MekraC

taowolf51 said:


> I don't really see any reason why socket savers should cost $30 a pop, that's $120 for a set for the V2. For what you get, $2.50 doesn't seem unusually cheap, plus it's not like it's being sold by some random chinese ebayer.


 
  
 I don't feel comfortable putting cheap plastic savers in a $350 amp . You would think there would be something in the $15 range somewhere.


----------



## Anavel0

They're just trough pins. There isn't a really good reason that they should be $30. $10 at the highest. 

As for if they'll work? Unfortunately I can't answer that.


----------



## MekraC

anavel0 said:


> They're just trough pins. There isn't a really good reason that they should be $30. $10 at the highest.
> 
> As for if they'll work? Unfortunately I can't answer that.




Those are not just through pins, they have isolators to help with tube harmonics or what not. That's what the site says, no real experience with them yet. I'll know more once I settle on some tubes.


----------



## Redshift Rider

I am using these with no issues at all:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/4PCS-Bakelite-9Pin-Tester-Saver-Tube-Socket-for-12AX7-12AU7-6DJ8-7025-12AX7B-etc-/201101126052


----------



## Anavel0

mekrac said:


> Those are not just through pins, they have isolators to help with tube harmonics or what not. That's what the site says, no real experience with them yet. I'll know more once I settle on some tubes.


They have "vibration reduction" bases. I don't know if that $30 more helps you in the grand scheme of things. The do look nice though.


----------



## reddog

I have subscribed to this page because I am a hopeless audophile addict and I must complete my Schiit Audio amp collection. And when I do obtain the Valhalla 2, I want to put good NOS tubes into it. Thanks for your time and forgive my audophile addiction lol.


----------



## bretemm

I've now used my V2 for about 5 hours and I think the tubes are really starting to be broken into now kinda, I'm hearing even more background sound. Today I used just my ipod and I could definetly here a diffrence, it just seemed bland and no real "space" to the music. 





notfitforpublic said:


> Ha! Funny, I was gonna ask you the same question. Using the modi 2 with the V2 and was wondering if you had a comparison of the 2. Already decided on the Bifrost but the Canadian dollar is in the crapper right now so actively looking for one (new or used) in Canada.


----------



## Anavel0

I rolled a lot of tubes in my Little Dot MK III trying to find the best sound. I'm still using the stock tubes in my Valhalla 2. They sound that good. So don't think you have to get NOS tubes.


----------



## reddog

anavel0 said:


> I rolled a lot of tubes in my Little Dot MK III trying to find the best sound. I'm still using the stock tubes in my Valhalla 2. They sound that good. So don't think you have to get NOS tubes.



Sweet that is good to know. I will not worry about getting NOS tubes. It will be a few months before I get a Valhalla 2.


----------



## bretemm

What would be some tubes for the valhalla2 that would go great with the GreatfulDead?


----------



## TotallyMonkey

I've seen several people mention this particular tube: http://www.upscaleaudio.com/telefunken-e88cc-6922/
  
 Is it really worth the money?  Can someone describe the sound vs. stock tubes?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## bigro

The Stock Tubes Are Very Good, I did stumble Across Some 1980's Russian Gold Grid 6N6P's for the outputs which I could not really tell the difference to much from Stock however I found some Matched Vokshod Gold grids from the early 70's  They were about $40 Matched and shipped from Europe. And Yes I like them more than Stock. There was A little bit more warmth over all  but not sloppy. Lows were more powerful and Highs really Shined. On the Flip Side I got some others I believe were JJ .Which I did not like. It was like the sound stage got smaller and mids just hurt and I lost the low end . Ran them for a few days to see if they would get better Nope.
  
 If you are Happy with stock they are very good and no need to explore. rolling is hit or miss, what works in one amp will not work in another. And hit or miss = missing money in your wallet


----------



## raybone0566

New vahala2 owner here. Coming from little dot mk.iii. The difference in those two amps imo is enormous. The Vahalia2 is much more detailed, sound is more spacious. Really no competition. I'm looking to get one set of good tubes to go back & forth with. Any suggestions on a good kind of end-game tube? Thanks


----------



## judgmentday

redshift rider said:


> I am using these with no issues at all:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/4PCS-Bakelite-9Pin-Tester-Saver-Tube-Socket-for-12AX7-12AU7-6DJ8-7025-12AX7B-etc-/201101126052


 

 Thanks for sharing!  How long did they take to arrive at your house? Do they reduce the heat considerably? Did you notice any change on the sound quality? Thanks.  I'm getting my Valhalla & Modi 2 very soon.


----------



## lekoross

Have some nice tested tubes for sale, both e188cc & e88cc. Both sound great on my Bifrost Gen 2 Uber / Valhalla 2 combo. 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/785573/e188cc-e88cc-tubes-for-sale
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Redshift Rider

judgmentday said:


> Thanks for sharing!  How long did they take to arrive at your house? Do they reduce the heat considerably? Did you notice any change on the sound quality? Thanks.  I'm getting my Valhalla & Modi 2 very soon.


 
 It took them 2 or 3 weeks to arrive (to Europe) if i remember correctly. 
  
 They did lower the heat to the point that i could place and hold my hand on the amp. 
 Also noticed some heat reduction when i moved away from russian 6n1p and some 6n23p tubes to PCC88 and E88CC tubes.
  
 They made no impact on the sound as far as i could tell.


----------



## judgmentday

redshift rider said:


> It took them 2 or 3 weeks to arrive (to Europe) if i remember correctly.
> 
> They did lower the heat to the point that i could place and hold my hand on the amp.
> Also noticed some heat reduction when i moved away from russian 6n1p and some 6n23p tubes to PCC88 and E88CC tubes.
> ...


 
 Good info, thanks Redshift Rider. I have not even got my Vahalla 2 and I'm already shopping for tubes.  This is going to be a good Christmas!
 I need to buy some BLACK SABLE Raytheon 12AX7 Black Plate for my California Alpha DAC. About $600 for a matched pair.


----------



## Hellvis

I've been trying to find a link or mention of tube options for the Valhalla 2. I just got mine on Friday, out of the box it sounds amazing, but I know I can improve on it. I'm looking for tubes that will add warmth, clarity and great staging. Any suggestions?


----------



## Anavel0

Pay no attention to me. Forgot which thread I was in.


----------



## JustinDT

Has anyone tried an EL84 yet?


----------



## Anavel0

justindt said:


> Has anyone tried an EL84 yet?


I'm fairly certain that an EL84 would not work.


----------



## Hellvis

Wow, about 25-30 hours so far on the Valhalla 2, with the Sony HAP-S1 (DSD) into Audeze LCD-2 and also Audioquest Nighthawks...the sound (warmth and spacing) sounds amazing! The stock tubes are legit, but cant wait to finally start tube rolling!


----------



## Redshift Rider

hellvis said:


> I've been trying to find a link or mention of tube options for the Valhalla 2. I just got mine on Friday, out of the box it sounds amazing, but I know I can improve on it. I'm looking for tubes that will add warmth, clarity and great staging. Any suggestions?


 
  
 I would suggest Philips/Valvo labeled E88CC. Important thing is that they are made in Harleen factory, Holland. 
 (they have acid codes with delta symbol). 
  
 Harleen made E88CCs are maybe little less warm overall, but they have greater clarity and soundstaging. 
 They are also smoother and more refined across the whole spectrum.  
  
 Stock tubes are indeed warm and glorious, don't rush


----------



## gearofwar

Hello folk, what would be the best tube to go with HD800 and where to get it? I'm pretty new to this. (I'm using Schiit Valhalla 1 Rollable) Thanks in advance.


----------



## BleaK

After trying some different tubes in both the output (the long in back) and input (short in front) tubes in the Valhalla 2 this is some points I came up with to those who just purchased the Val2 and/or are looking for trying new tubes:
  
 - Don't bother try rolling output tubes( long tall ones in the back). I've tried 4 different, and while they aren't expensive they all sound the same, stick with stock.
  
 -Around 50usd is the sweetspot for good new input tubes. It takes Val2 from being great value at 350usd to insane value. My personal recommendation is getting a matched pair of Russian 6H23p-EB before 1979. Greater sound over the whole freq. and also a bigger more hard hitting sound.
  
 -The Val2 scales really well with input tubes, but you're gonna hit a ceiling somewhere. So before you are chasing 400usd tubes, consider another upgrade path.
  
 -It's easy to be hooked on tubes. There's always something better with better synergy etc. Don't get too caught up in it. While tubes matter, what matter most is your system as whole. Find something that makes you tickle and stay with it.

 Just some words from one who has spent maybe too much and tried a few too many different tubes.


----------



## sysfail

I'm looking to try some tubes with my Valhalla 2 + Modi 2 Uber paired with the HD600s. I've searched around and the Amperex Bugle Boy and Amperex Orange Globe seem to be pretty popular, are they a good step up from the stock tubes or are there other recommendations? Seems right now that the stock setup sounds just a bit bright and a bit shy with the bass/lower end, a tad bit cold in overall sound for my tastes. Is there a tube that might balance things out?  Maybe it needs some "burn in" time? Don't want to go over $100 for a set of tubes, ~$50 would be even better. Links to the actual tubes for sale would be great, I've looked some up for sale and it seems like there's a lot of the same tube names with big variations in pricing, so I have no clue what is what. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Some advice would be great, thanks!


----------



## feilb

I've got a perfect set of tubes for you for fixing exactly your observations: Siemens ECC85
  
 I've posted my thoughts on this tube elsewhere in this thread.
  
 When I had my HD800 I thought the stock set up was dry sounding. The ECC85 has much better low end than stock and a generally warmer sound. PM me, I have a pair I can part with for within your budget. No hum and not microphonic.


----------



## raybone0566

feilb said:


> I've got a perfect set of tubes for you for fixing exactly your observations: Siemens ECC85
> 
> I've posted my thoughts on this tube elsewhere in this thread.
> 
> When I had my HD800 I thought the stock set up was dry sounding. The ECC85 has much better low end than stock and a generally warmer sound. PM me, I have a pair I can part with for within your budget. No hum and not microphonic.


Where can I get those? I'm running that setup now. I'd like to try a different tube with the hd's


----------



## feilb

I found mine on ebay from argentina. Took a few weeks to arive in the US, so that was a downside. I'll give sysfail a couple hours if he wants them, else I'd be happy to send them your way for a fair price.


----------



## raybone0566

feilb said:


> I found mine on ebay from argentina. Took a few weeks to arive in the US, so that was a downside. I'll give sysfail a couple hours if he wants them, else I'd be happy to send them your way for a fair price.


Sounds great, I'll gladly take them off your hands if he doesn't respond


----------



## sysfail

feilb said:


> I've got a perfect set of tubes for you for fixing exactly your observations: Siemens ECC85
> 
> I've posted my thoughts on this tube elsewhere in this thread.
> 
> When I had my HD800 I thought the stock set up was dry sounding. The ECC85 has much better low end than stock and a generally warmer sound. PM me, I have a pair I can part with for within your budget. No hum and not microphonic.




Thanks for the reply! Any idea how it would be with the HD600? How do they compare with the Amperexes?


----------



## huberd

I use JJ Gold tubes in mine. I like that they have a balanced smooth sound. Replacing the output tubes makes a world of difference, just get the tubes from Cryoset they are fantastic. The stock tubes from Schiit are well you know.


----------



## sysfail

What are the differences between the Amperex Orange Globe 6DJ8 and Orange PQ 6DJ8,for some reason the PQ is cheaper but I thought the PQs are better?


----------



## feilb

FWIW i didnt notice much difference in output tube rolling. To each his own. I've only tried the bugle boys and the ecc85 was a touch less warm and a touch more detailed.


----------



## bigro

I went from the Stock tubes to some early 80's Russian gold grid 6n6p's. I was not able to tell a difference. If there was it was to subtle for me to notice. I will only concentrate on input tubes unless some one has found otherwise.


----------



## sysfail

I've been reading and it looks like there's no need to change the longer tubes (output tubes?) Just the shorter tubes (input tubes?) when you're rolling different tubes. Is that correct?


----------



## tehsprayer

sysfail said:


> I've been reading and it looks like there's no need to change the longer tubes (output tubes?) Just the shorter tubes (input tubes?) when you're rolling different tubes. Is that correct?


 
 I've been reading and I think that is the case. The only tubes worth changing are the 6922, 6n1p, ECC88, 6dj8 (shorter input tubes)


----------



## MadDane

I tried 2 different types of Russian power tubes (the larger ones in back) @$40 a pair. Try as I might, I couldn't hear any difference with my IEM's or my HD650! Don't waste your money!

YMMV.

Claus


----------



## bigro

That seems to be the consensus. Stick with the Standard output tubes and spend the cash on the Input tubes.


----------



## sysfail

Can anyone compare the sounds of the Amperex Orange Globes and Amperex Bugle Boys in the Valhalla 2 specifically for the Sennheiser HD600 or perhaps the HD650?


----------



## lekoross

I have a Valhalla 2 and HD650 setup. To me, there was not enough difference between the two to comment on. If all tubes are authentic and matched, then I believe the Orange Globes may be ever so slightly warmer than the Bugle Boys. I say this because there are many counterfeit Bugle Boys out there. After much experimentation and expense, I have found that the earlier Heerlen, Holland e188cc's and/or e88cc have the warmest, richest sound in this system. Because I like the warmth this suits me well. For someone after more detail or neutrality, I would suggest the American-made (as opposed to the Holland-made) Amperex, the Telefunkens, or the Siemens. The Russian 6n23p's, if they are authentic, are to me a wonderfully balanced tube with less warmth and more detail than the Heerlens. You can contact rb2013 for those if you are interested. 
  
 Here's a link that may help (although an analysis of the Russian Tubes are not part of the reviews):
  
 http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
  
 Cheers!


----------



## olor1n

sysfail said:


> Can anyone compare the sounds of the Amperex Orange Globes and Amperex Bugle Boys in the Valhalla 2 specifically for the Sennheiser HD600 or perhaps the HD650?


 

 I have the Valhalla 2 and HD650 with Bugles and A-frame Orange labels. The A-frames are a tad warmer and seemingly livelier in presentation.  Really plays to the HD650's strengths in layering gorgeous mids and textures. Distorted guitars sound great, with bite and crunch.
  
 The Bugles have become my preferred tubes though. Whilst the Bugles concede to the A-frames in macrodynamics, the gains in a more coherent soundstage, and a smoother and clearer upper register more than makes up for the slight compromise. I also find the Bugles more transparent, as they strike a lovely balance with my NAD M51 dac.


----------



## MadDane

I noticed a huge improvement with the Russian output tubes. Definitely a more open soundstage a very nuanced warmth and smoothness over stock Valhala's. My favorite of all I've tried, especially with my HD650's.


----------



## sysfail

Thanks for input! I actually might be trying out the HD800 with my setup. Wonder what tubes would be good for the HD800. Already have the Amperex Orange Globes and now I have the Bugle Boys coming in as well.


----------



## bigro

maddane said:


> I noticed a huge improvement with the Russian output tubes. Definitely a more open soundstage a very nuanced warmth and smoothness over stock Valhala's. My favorite of all I've tried, especially with my HD650's.


 
 Same here. Early 70's Vokshod Rockets were where I stopped and not expensive.


----------



## Live

Any thoughts on Amperex ECC88? This lady local to me is selling a bunch of Vacuum tubes and noticed these would be compatible with the Valhalla 2. Are they any good for soundstage over stock?
  
 Here's a small list of items she is selling:
  
 EL86
 ECC88 Amperex
 EC86 - 4 Gold Tip Bugle Boy
 EM84
 EF184
 EF93
 ECF200
 EAA917
 6360
 HBC9
 DTBA
  
 any other of these tubes compatible?
  
 Also, any recommendations for the output tubes? Again, I want to improve my sound stage. I would appreciate a cost conscious recommendation, as I am new to this and just want to try out cheaper options as I mainly want to widen that soundstage for gaming, lol.


----------



## bigro

live said:


> Any thoughts on Amperex ECC88? This lady local to me is selling a bunch of Vacuum tubes and noticed these would be compatible with the Valhalla 2. Are they any good for soundstage over stock?
> 
> Here's a small list of items she is selling:
> 
> ...


 

 Are They matched sets? If not do you have a way to get them tested?


----------



## DeadHead57

I posted this in another thread with no response, any thoughts?
Currently I am running a Audio Engine D1 dac into a Headroom micro amp to power my HD600's. I have been happy with the results thus far but the micro amp is known to have a narrow sound stage. I should be receiving my Valhalla in a couple of days and am extremely excited knowing this will be a huge upgrade. My question is going forward would the biggest sound enhancements come from trying new tubes or should I first look at changing Dacs? If I go the Dac route how big a difference is there between the Modi 2 and the Bifrost?


----------



## sheldaze

deadhead57 said:


> I posted this in another thread with no response, any thoughts?
> Currently I am running a Audio Engine D1 dac into a Headroom micro amp to power my HD600's. I have been happy with the results thus far but the micro amp is known to have a narrow sound stage. I should be receiving my Valhalla in a couple of days and am extremely excited knowing this will be a huge upgrade. My question is going forward would the biggest sound enhancements come from trying new tubes or should I first look at changing Dacs? If I go the Dac route how big a difference is there between the Modi 2 and the Bifrost?


 
 +1
  
 I too am curious how much of a change could be made simply by upgrading tubes. Specifically I own the Valhalla 2, and like the sound. But I will be attending a meet where people will be bringing tube amplifiers costing upwards of $1100 (that's the low end - we had someone bring a Liquid Crimson costing closer to $3K).
  
 While tubes seem expensive, such as a set of Russian tubes for $320, they are still at the noise level in cost is compared to the amplifiers I would be auditioning. And at meet conditions, I could only hear so much. So I am more interested in what people here believe. It is worth it to pay as much for the tubes as was paid for the amplifier, for Valhalla 2? This would still cost less than the next upgrade of tube amplifier. But would the quality of the sound be close?
  
 Diminishing returns - yada yada yada. No, I want to know could a $680 Vallhalla 2 with the best tubes be confused with a DNA Sonnet 2 or a Decware CSP3? Or are these simply better tube amplifiers?


----------



## Mr Rick

sheldaze said:


> +1
> 
> I too am curious how much of a change could be made simply by upgrading tubes. Specifically I own the Valhalla 2, and like the sound. But I will be attending a meet where people will be bringing tube amplifiers costing upwards of $1100 (that's the low end - we had someone bring a Liquid Crimson costing closer to $3K).
> 
> ...


 
 This is the Valhalla tube rolling thread. You should *expect* to hear the virtues of that pursuit here.
  
 However, only *your* ears can tell you if tube rolling is the correct path for you. I suggest that you discuss tube rolling with others at the upcoming meet and have someone demonstrate the differences heard with different tubes.  Only then can you make a truly informed decision.
  
 In my case, I like the sound of my Valhall 2 with the tubes Schiit provides. I bought a second set of stock tubes from them as spares. I spend my time listening to music, not tubes.


----------



## DeadHead57

So in response to my question I would get more benefits from upgrading my DAC than putting money into higher grade tubes?


----------



## Mr Rick

deadhead57 said:


> So in response to my question I would get more benefits from upgrading my DAC than putting money into higher grade tubes?


 
  
 To get the most improvement I buy another set of headphones.


----------



## DeadHead57

I was led to believe that the Sennheiser HD600 was a well respected set of phones in these forums. Obviously I know there are much better out there. In any event I plan on keeping these for awhile. So would you think the D1 is a weak Link or the stock tubes in the Valhalla2?


----------



## Mr Rick

deadhead57 said:


> I was led to believe that the Sennheiser HD600 was a well respected set of phones in these forums. Obviously I know there are much better out there. In any event I plan on keeping these for awhile. So would you think the D1 is a weak Link or the stock tubes in the Valhalla2?


 
  
  IMHO: Don't change anything until you have put several hundred hours on your new Valhalla.


----------



## DeadHead57

Thanks, is that how long it takes for the tubes to be fully burned in and sound their best?


----------



## Byronb

deadhead57 said:


> Thanks, is that how long it takes for the tubes to be fully burned in and sound their best?


 
 No but that is how long it will take for you to "learn" what, if any, changes you want to make to the signature.


----------



## MadDane

byronb said:


> No but that is how long it will take for you to "learn" what, if any, changes you want to make to the signature.




Agreed! I spent several weeks with my Valhalla before rolling the tubes. Settled on a pair of mid 1970's. Love the sound!!


----------



## bigro

deadhead57 said:


> So in response to my question I would get more benefits from upgrading my DAC than putting money into higher grade tubes?


 
  
 I went from a Modi 2 Uber to a Bifrost Multibit and there was a very noticeable improvement in sound stage, layering and Details. Disclaimer I use these primarily with Speakers. Apparently there is a much more dramatic difference with speakers as opposed to some headphones.
  
 As others said get some time on the Valhalla Stock tubes. Then Go from There. I my self Settled on a Early Seventies Vokshod Rocket 6N1P- EV Gold Grid. I swapped out the outputs tubes but as others have said there was no discernible difference. Stick with the rolling the Input tubes. I have a Vali 2 and on the recommendations of others I swapped out the stock for an electro harmonix 6922 EH and I really like it. I may get a pair to test in the Valhalla 2. If I don't like it well then I have Backup tubed for the Vali


----------



## DeadHead57

Thanks,
I plan on taking my time before taking the next step. I am very much enjoying the Valhalla 2 so far. Just wondering how much better it can actually get!


----------



## RoninChaos

Are any of you using socket savers to lift up your tubes? Are you using just one or stacking two? I want to dissipate the heat a bit more from the tubes, and was wondering if anyone had any suggestions as to what they did.

 Thanks!


----------



## Anavel0

Just one saver per socket was more than enough to lift the tubes up and bring overall temperatures down. No more toasty volume knob.


----------



## raybone0566

Heat definitely drops


----------



## raybone0566




----------



## Mr.Tom

sheldaze said:


> +1
> 
> I too am curious how much of a change could be made simply by upgrading tubes. Specifically I own the Valhalla 2, and like the sound. But I will be attending a meet where people will be bringing tube amplifiers costing upwards of $1100 (that's the low end - we had someone bring a Liquid Crimson costing closer to $3K).
> 
> ...


 

 I sell Russian tubes for $127. per set, so I'd say $300+ is just taking advantage of folks.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

anavel0 said:


> Just one saver per socket was more than enough to lift the tubes up and bring overall temperatures down. No more toasty volume knob.


 

 Can you point me in the direction of these socket savers.  I'd be interested in looking into them.


----------



## raybone0566

gumbydammit223 said:


> Can you point me in the direction of these socket savers.  I'd be interested in looking into them.


Got mine on eBay, just search 9 pin socket saver. I paid $12 for 4


----------



## GumbyDammit223

raybone0566 said:


> Got mine on eBay, just search 9 pin socket saver. I paid $12 for 4


 

 Ah, ok.  Thanks!


----------



## notfitforpublic

mr.tom said:


> I sell Russian tubes for $127. per set, so I'd say $300+ is just taking advantage of folks.


 

 and they're gooooooood tubes for the Valhalla to boot. I've felt no need to look elsewhere.
  
 I do have some Amperex Orange Globe 6dj8, Holland, A-Frame construction on the way I bought used just cause I got the itch one day and the price was right. Will report back.


----------



## RoninChaos

anavel0 said:


> Just one saver per socket was more than enough to lift the tubes up and bring overall temperatures down. No more toasty volume knob.


Have you tried two per socket?


----------



## raybone0566

roninchaos said:


> Have you tried two per socket?


I wouldn't do that! And I don't really see the point


----------



## Nalor

One set of socket savers is more than enough to raise the tube out of the Valhalla enclosure. I've not felt the need to put any more on mine. I did find that also putting slightly larger feet helped a little as it got more space for ventilation.
  
 On the plus side, in the winter, I find the Valhalla runs very cool...


----------



## GumbyDammit223

roninchaos said:


> Have you tried two per socket?


 

 I personally wouldn't do that because of the increase in contact resistance.


----------



## notfitforpublic

Speaking of contact resistance and such, did we have a unanimous opinion on the cheapy socket savers versus the $25US a pop savers? I really don't roll much so a $170 CND is not worth it. I can grab these from a Canadian distributor but if the cheap ones are no good, I'd rather just pass altogether.


----------



## raybone0566

notfitforpublic said:


> Speaking of contact resistance and such, did we have a unanimous opinion on the cheapy socket savers versus the $25US a pop savers? I really don't roll much so a $170 CND is not worth it. I can grab these from a Canadian distributor but if the cheap ones are no good, I'd rather just pass altogether.


I've had the cheap ones in my unit for 6 weeks and haven't any any issues. The amp runs much cooler as well. $12 for 4 on eBay.


----------



## MadDane

raybone0566 said:


> I've had the cheap ones in my unit for 6 weeks and haven't any any issues. The amp runs much cooler as well. $12 for 4 on eBay.




I've had the same one's in for months! Dont waste your money on expensive ones!


----------



## GumbyDammit223

maddane said:


> I've had the same one's in for months! Dont waste your money on expensive ones!


 

 I've ordered a set of the cheapos from China and another from Arizona.  We'll see if I can tell any difference between them and without.


----------



## Thenewguy007

notfitforpublic said:


> and they're gooooooood tubes for the Valhalla to boot. I've felt no need to look elsewhere.
> 
> I do have some Amperex Orange Globe 6dj8, Holland, A-Frame construction on the way I bought used just cause I got the itch one day and the price was right. Will report back.


 
  
 Did you get to test them out yet?


----------



## MadDane

P.S. Gumby awsome avatar! I'm looking to get a set of Custom Noble K10's with a similar design!


----------



## GumbyDammit223

maddane said:


> P.S. Gumby awsome avatar! I'm looking to get a set of Custom Noble K10's with a similar design!


 

 Thanks!  It's just one of the thousands of amazing pictures from the Hubble telescope website.


----------



## notfitforpublic

thenewguy007 said:


> Did you get to test them out yet?


 

 About an hour in now after letting them warm up for 24hrs or so. Deffenity more open and airy than the Russian tubes. Soundstage is wider and instrument separation is better. Brighter tubes though. The Russians I was using before had more warmth, thicker mids and low end while the Amperex are a tad thinner and treble is a tad splashier. The Amperex is the more detailed tube, really a great soundstage and air to the music from this tube.
  
 I get the novelty of tube rolling now, in opposed to just finding a set you like and sticking with them. Both are great tubes and I enjoy the subtle differences between them. One is not better than the other.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

gumbydammit223 said:


> I've ordered a set of the cheapos from China and another from Arizona.  We'll see if I can tell any difference between them and without.


 

 Received the Chinese ones today.  Some of the edges were chipped.  Not sure if it's the build quality or used, but put them in anyway.  Something's funky as my left channel is now dead.  Pulled them and dropped the tubes back in and everything is fine, so it's definitely the extenders.  I'll buzz them out when I go back into work on Tuesday and see what's up.  Now waiting for the other set which should be arriving any day now.


----------



## raybone0566

gumbydammit223 said:


> Received the Chinese ones today.  Some of the edges were chipped.  Not sure if it's the build quality or used, but put them in anyway.  Something's funky as my left channel is now dead.  Pulled them and dropped the tubes back in and everything is fine, so it's definitely the extenders.  I'll buzz them out when I go back into work on Tuesday and see what's up.  Now waiting for the other set which should be arriving any day now.


If you ordered from eBay contact the seller and send a picture. They don't want negative feedback and should send another set.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

raybone0566 said:


> If you ordered from eBay contact the seller and send a picture. They don't want negative feedback and should send another set.


 
  
 Once I have a chance to buzz out the pins to figure out what is going on, I will.


----------



## raybone0566

gumbydammit223 said:


> Once I have a chance to buzz out the pins to figure out what is going on, I will.


 they sent me 8 pin by mistake and as soon as I contacted them they shipped out the correct ones. I haven't had QC issues with the one I received. Do hope you get it sorted out. Amp runs considerably cooler with the tubes elevated.


----------



## olor1n

I find the Valhalla 2 sounds best after it's been on for a while and hot to touch. I don't bother with socket savers for this reason and also why I turn my desk fan away from the amp when it's on.


----------



## raybone0566

olor1n said:


> I find the Valhalla 2 sounds best after it's been on for a while and hot to touch. I don't bother with socket savers for this reason and also why I turn my desk fan away from the amp when it's on.


That really more to do with the tubes heating up from my experience. Doesn't really matter where they sit. Raising the tubes actually helps as it keeps the heat further apart from the motherboard


----------



## trung224

Does anyone have experience with 6N23P Reflektor 1973 tubes? I have a chance to grab them at fair price, so I really need to know how they compare with 1974 or 1975 Reflektor.


----------



## MadDane

Sorry only went as far as these:
  
*6N23P E88CC/ECC88/6D**J8 Gray Shields VOSKHOD 1975*
  
*And they are spectacular!*
  
*Good Luck!*


----------



## GumbyDammit223

gumbydammit223 said:


> Once I have a chance to buzz out the pins to figure out what is going on, I will.


 
  
  


raybone0566 said:


> they sent me 8 pin by mistake and as soon as I contacted them they shipped out the correct ones. I haven't had QC issues with the one I received. Do hope you get it sorted out. Amp runs considerably cooler with the tubes elevated.


 
  
 I stacked all four extenders together and buzzed them out.  All 9 pins showed ~0.1 ohms and a couple actually began showing _negative_ resistance, indicating some capacitance.  I disassembled them and in one, found a couple solder bridges between the pins.  The soldering job even when ignoring the bridges was pretty bad.  Got them cleaned up and will try them again tonight when I get home from work.  Considering the price, I shouldn't be too surprised by the quality.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

gumbydammit223 said:


> I stacked all four extenders together and buzzed them out.  All 9 pins showed ~0.1 ohms and a couple actually began showing _negative_ resistance, indicating some capacitance.  I disassembled them and in one, found a couple solder bridges between the pins.  The soldering job even when ignoring the bridges was pretty bad.  Got them cleaned up and will try them again tonight when I get home from work.  Considering the price, I shouldn't be too surprised by the quality.


 

 Plugged them in when I got home and got amazing sound streaming into both ears so I guess my soldering job worked.  No on to my next major task - cleaning up all the tags in my several-hundred GB music files so I can listen to them "correctly".  Yes, I really am that anal about details.


----------



## huberd

There must be something wrong in your systems because the Valhalla doesn't sound shrill. Maybe you should try different tubes. I changed mine for gold JJ and and the output tubes from Cryoset. Schiit installs cheap tubes so they can price the amp not to expensive.


----------



## MadDane

huberd said:


> There must be something wrong in your systems because the Valhalla doesn't sound shrill. Maybe you should try different tubes. I changed mine for gold JJ and and the output tubes from Cryoset. Schiit installs cheap tubes so they can price the amp not to expensive.




I agree it definitely doesnt sound shrill.


----------



## X1XNobleX1X

Hello!
  
 Looking into purchasing a Valhalla 2 myself. 
  
  
 Using Sennheiser HD800s.
  
  
  
 Just looking through comments on this forum there isn't any definitive answer what tubes are good for the HD800.
  
  
  
  
  
 What would be good tubes to role, for popular new music? As this is what I mostly listen to.


----------



## sysfail

x1xnoblex1x said:


> Hello!
> 
> Looking into purchasing a Valhalla 2 myself.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I use Amperex Bugle Boys in my Valhalla 2 and they're great with really anything that is recorded well. Throw in something that's recorded poorly or low quality mp3 files and it'll probably sound bad with any tube and any setup on the HD800.
  
 Keep in mind my HD800 is modded.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

x1xnoblex1x said:


> Hello!
> 
> Looking into purchasing a Valhalla 2 myself.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've been looking for recommendations myself and a lot of people say the stock tubes aren't too shabby.  That's what I'm using with my Val 2 and HD700's and I have no complaints.


----------



## mysticstryk

With the Valhalla 2, can I just change out the front 2 tubes to switch up the sound, or do the power tubes need to be swapped as well?  Are there pretty nice tubes that are on the cheap side?  I'm new to OTL amps and considering buying a Valhalla 2 for my HD650.


----------



## SHFT

Hey guys,

I finally took the plunge and bought the Valhalla 2, it is my first tube amp.

Do the tubes have to be pushed firmly? They seem to be a bit'wobly'..

Tubes light up though when switched on.

Thanks (sorry for this very beginner question)


----------



## GumbyDammit223

shft said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I finally took the plunge and bought the Valhalla 2, it is my first tube amp.
> 
> ...


 
 Congrats on getting a Val 2, I'm sure you'll love it!
  
 The tubes should be firmly seated into the sockets and you should be able to feel some resistance once they have been seated.  The sockets are designed to be a tight fit to ensure good contact with the pins, but the tubes shouldn't be "wobbly".


----------



## SHFT

gumbydammit223 said:


> Congrats on getting a Val 2, I'm sure you'll love it!
> 
> The tubes should be firmly seated into the sockets and you should be able to feel some resistance once they have been seated.  The sockets are designed to be a tight fit to ensure good contact with the pins, but the tubes shouldn't be "wobbly".




OK I think I have found the trick,thank you very much!

Edit: Fate is laughing in my face, there is a general power outage in our street.


----------



## sysfail

mysticstryk said:


> With the Valhalla 2, can I just change out the front 2 tubes to switch up the sound, or do the power tubes need to be swapped as well?  Are there pretty nice tubes that are on the cheap side?  I'm new to OTL amps and considering buying a Valhalla 2 for my HD650.




Changing the front pair (shorter tubes) is all you really need to do. I use the Amperex Bugle Boys, they're very nice and not too expensive. Works lovely with the HD800. Though the Amperex Orange Globes worked amazing with the HD650.


----------



## mysticstryk

sysfail said:


> Changing the front pair (shorter tubes) is all you really need to do. I use the Amperex Bugle Boys, they're very nice and not too expensive. Works lovely with the HD800. Though the Amperex Orange Globes worked amazing with the HD650.


 
  
 Thanks!  I could only find the Bugle Boy Amperex, is that the same thing?  I'm new to tube rolling, just want some cheaper tubes that are better than the stock for the hd650 that I can try out once my Valhalla 2 gets here.


----------



## sysfail

mysticstryk said:


> Thanks!  I could only find the Bugle Boy Amperex, is that the same thing?  I'm new to tube rolling, just want some cheaper tubes that are better than the stock for the hd650 that I can try out once my Valhalla 2 gets here.




Should be the same thing. Get the ones from the 60s or early 70s. The Valhalla 2 itself is already great with the HD650. Tube rolling will be icing on the cake!


----------



## Nick-s-f

My first time posting in this thread, hi all.
  
 Had a small concern.
  
 Am I going nuts or is it just extremely difficult to install / re-install tubes on schiit amps? I am very familiar with the ''rolling'' process
 and find it to be very easy just inserting half way into the socket, then rock/roll them gently into place.
  
 I recently switched out my gold lion ECC88 back to stock, just for kicks. Upon removing stock and reinstalling the gold lions,
 I found it almost impossible to reinstall both tubes.
  
 I actually bent the pins on one of the GL tubes but was able to use tweezers to re-align the pins. It took a scary amount of force to
 finally get them back into the sockets (I wasnt just 'pressing down'). I was a bit scared to turn the amp back on but they are installed 
 and work fine for now.

 Has anyone else had this kind of difficulty with the sockets and aftermarket tubes?


----------



## Byronb

I have not experience this issue on any of my Schiit tube gear. Is this a new piece of gear?


----------



## Nick-s-f

byronb said:


> I have not experience this issue on any of my Schiit tube gear. Is this a new piece of gear?


 
 Yeah, Valhalla 2 purchased in December.


----------



## X1XNobleX1X

For the Valhalla 2, do you think tube rolling with the Gold Lion E88CC would be a good improvement for HD800s?
  
  
 Anyone got any other suggestions?
  
  
 I generally listen to pop music.
  
  
  
 http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6922-E88CC-Tube-Types/Genalex-Gold-Lion-E88CC-6922


----------



## sysfail

nick-s-f said:


> My first time posting in this thread, hi all.
> 
> Had a small concern.
> 
> ...




I think it's supposed to be very snug installing and removing tubes from the Valhalla, even more difficult because it's deep in the chassis which makes it hard to get a grip on. Shouldn't be impossible though. I use a cloth to get a better grip and wiggle it slowly on and off, you need a pretty good amount of force.


----------



## sysfail

x1xnoblex1x said:


> For the Valhalla 2, do you think tube rolling with the Gold Lion E88CC would be a good improvement for HD800s?
> 
> 
> Anyone got any other suggestions?
> ...




Not sure about those tubes but I use Amperex Bugle Boy tubes with my HD800 and I'm very much happy with them. Along with a good EQ you can really tailor them to whatever sound you like. The Amperex Orange Globes are another good choice as well, but more for the HD650 on the Valhalla for me.


----------



## Nick-s-f

x1xnoblex1x said:


> For the Valhalla 2, do you think tube rolling with the Gold Lion E88CC would be a good improvement for HD800s?
> 
> 
> Anyone got any other suggestions?
> ...


 
 Guess I'll chime in. I do not have an HD800 but do have an HD600 and the GL's are less colored than stock on the V2. Soundstage width shrinks a bit, detail increases, and the whole sound signature is very even from bass-mids-treble.

 They are more focused and chameleon-like than stock, but less fun. I prefer them to stock (I prefer neutral sound), but for something like an HD800, can't say.


----------



## RoninChaos

sysfail said:


> I use Amperex Bugle Boys in my Valhalla 2 and they're great with really anything that is recorded well. Throw in something that's recorded poorly or low quality mp3 files and it'll probably sound bad with any tube and any setup on the HD800.
> 
> Keep in mind my HD800 is modded.




Hey man. Where did you get your bugle boys?


----------



## sysfail

roninchaos said:


> Hey man. Where did you get your bugle boys?


 
  
 A seller from ebay.


----------



## T Bone

A bought a set of NOS Russian 6N1P and 6N6P tubes from Mr. Tom featured in this old thread:
Best of the bunch - Russian tubes for Valhalla
  
 He was right - they are a significant upgrade over the stock tubes that the Valhalla ships with.  I was impressed with how you can completely change the sound with a simple tube swap. I tried a few other tubes, but I liked the sound of these NOS tubes the best. 
  
 I am selling my Valhalla and I've got the tubes for sale in the classifieds.   ...if you're into tube rolling - give these a try


----------



## X1XNobleX1X

t bone said:


> A bought a set of NOS Russian 6N1P and 6N6P tubes from Mr. Tom featured in this old thread:
> Best of the bunch - Russian tubes for Valhalla


 
 Are these the same?
  
 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/181263834045?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
  
  
 They don't seem very expensive, do you think it would be a worthwhile upgrade for HD800s?


----------



## T Bone

x1xnoblex1x said:


> Are these the same?
> **LINK REMOVED***
> 
> They don't seem very expensive, do you think it would be a worthwhile upgrade for HD800s?


 
 No, they are not the same.  The tubes Mr. Tom had were vintage NOS tubes, not current production like the ones in your link.  If you've got $1,700 invested in head phones - $40 in tubes is a trivial investment.  The stock Ruby tubes in the Valhalla are kind of boring.  ...not bad, but not great either.   To answer your question "are they a worthwhile upgrade for HD800s?" - I'd say probably. 
  
 According to Wikipedia - the 6N1P-EV is the "ruggedized" version of the 6N1P so it should be fine.  At that price, go for it.
  
 For me - rolling in new tubes is half the fun of owning tube gear anyway.  You can tune the sound to your personal preference and headphones. 
 I have put one tube on the left channel and another tube on the right so that I can compare tubes head-to-head.  It's pretty interesting.  
  
 The Valhalla manual lists these tubes as being compatible:

The 6N1P input tubes can be swapped with 6DJ8, 6BZ7, 6922, ECC88
The 6N6P output tubes can be exchanged for 6H30Ns, but that’s about it


----------



## T Bone

x1xnoblex1x said:


> For the Valhalla 2, do you think tube rolling with the Gold Lion E88CC would be a good improvement for HD800s?


 
  
 Gold Lion E88CC would not suck   I would give that combo a try.  Might be a bit bright.


----------



## Oskari

t bone said:


> The tubes Mr. Tom had were vintage NOS tubes, not current production like the ones in your link.




The tubes in the ebay photo were made in 1972.


----------



## T Bone

oskari said:


> The tubes in the ebay photo were made in *1972*.


 
 I had to click through and blow up the photo to make out the date code - it looks like you're right.
 They looked so good I thought they were current production.
  
 Ironically, I just bought a pair of NOS *1972* Phillips 5R4GYS for my PrimaLuna pre-amp in my vinyl setup - made a significant difference.


----------



## X1XNobleX1X

Hello everyone,
  
 I'm interested in purchasing a pair of Bugle Boy tubes.
  
  Can anyone please tell me what the actual differences are between these 5 different pairs?
  
http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_ssn=mercedesman6572&_armrs=1&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR2.TRC1.A0.H0.Xecc88+bugl.TRS0&_nkw=ecc88+bugle&_sacat=0
  
  
 Ranging from $40 USD to $90 USD.
  
  
 Just wondering, if there is any worthwhile sound/quality differences between the five.
  
  
 There are also these:
 http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.XAMPEREX+BUGLE+BOY+6DJ8+ECC88.TRS0&_nkw=AMPEREX+BUGLE+BOY+6DJ8+ECC88&_sacat=0&rmvSB=true
  
 What would someone recommend to be a reasonable costing tube from the link above.
  
  
 The only difference I see is the silkscreen on the front and seem to better matching the more you pay although, I have no idea what I'm talking about


----------



## GumbyDammit223

mr rick said:


> This is the Valhalla tube rolling thread. You should *expect* to hear the virtues of that pursuit here.
> 
> 
> In my case, I like the sound of my Valhall 2 with the tubes Schiit provides. I bought a second set of stock tubes from them as spares. I spend my time listening to music, not tubes.


 
  
 I _*love*_ that last sentence!


----------



## Magick Man

Via email Schiit says their LIIST SS "tubes" will work with the Valhalla 1 & 2 (input set). That could be interesting.


----------



## Bakerman

New to this Forum, I just bought the Valhalla 2 last week, only listened to it for a few minutes to verify it works. Sounded pretty good out of the gate.
  
 I have some matched Russian 6H23p's (78) on the way from Ivan. Should get some hours in this coming weekend.
  
 Bakerman


----------



## jasoncote

Subscribed


----------



## yangian

like Valhalla 2's neutral sound for HD 600. Perfect if had more dynamic.


----------



## h2rulz

Well, at least, I can say the HD650 with the Valhalla is a great pair!
  
 Btw, are all socket savers compatible with the tubes for Valhalla as long as they are 9pin socket savers?
 I'm digging the look with the Valhalla, and I do roll tubes quite frequently.


----------



## MadDane

h2rulz said:


> Well, at least, I can say the HD650 with the Valhalla is a great pair!
> 
> Btw, are all socket savers compatible with the tubes for Valhalla as long as they are 9pin socket savers?
> I'm digging the look with the Valhalla, and I do roll tubes quite frequently.




Yes they're all compatible!


----------



## h2rulz

maddane said:


> Yes they're all compatible!




Thanks!
Would any socket saver on eBay do the job with no noticeable change in sound quality?
Also, are the the pins on the socket saver looser so when you pull the tubes out the socket saver doesn't come out with it? But then again, how would you take the socket saver out if that's the case?


----------



## GumbyDammit223

h2rulz said:


> Thanks!
> Would any socket saver on eBay do the job with no noticeable change in sound quality?
> Also, are the the pins on the socket saver looser so when you pull the tubes out the socket saver doesn't come out with it? But then again, how would you take the socket saver out if that's the case?


 

 I got a cheap Chinese pair for $6? a couple months ago.  I posted about my results here if you're interested, but they seem to work fine for me after fixing a solder bridge and a couple iffy solder jobs.  I used a pair of hemostats to grab them and work them out after discovering the problems.  I believe a couple of the savers were coming out with the tubes while the other two stayed in the box, or partially.  Not a big deal though...if you have a pair of hemos.


----------



## smellster

I picked up a couple of cheap brown socket savers off ebay as well. Unfortunately they produced quite a pronounced audible hum on my Valhalla 2. I have since replaced them with the tubemonger ones with no issues, but they're fairly expensive though.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

Again, Cheap + Chinese = Questionable Quality.  Most likely the problem was similar to mine - a partial solder bridge or flux bridge.  As I found, these things aren't high tech and can be cleaned up pretty easily if you have a good soldering iron and a third hand to hold them while working on them.


----------



## h2rulz

Hmm, getting it off ebay doesn't look like a good idea anymore.
 Wouldn't have guessed there'd be so many issues with them.
 And I'm not sure if I want to go thru the effort of cleaning it up myself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Any recommendations where I can get quality socket savers?


----------



## GumbyDammit223

If you Google "socket saver" you'll find a few companies other than eBay that sell similar products for $2-3 apiece and one company that sells some for $25 apiece (http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm).  I personally think that price is outrageous.  But then again, I'm not the type who would spend $750 for an "audiophile" USB cable either.  I kid not - I have the link for such a beast (https://www.thecableco.com/Product/USB-SPS).  A lot of people have had good first-time results with the cheap ones and if you're unlucky like I was, you're not out more than the cost of a 6-pack if you can't fix them.


----------



## h2rulz

gumbydammit223 said:


> If you Google "socket saver" you'll find a few companies other than eBay that sell similar products for $2-3 apiece and one company that sells some for $25 apiece (http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm).  I personally think that price is outrageous.  But then again, I'm not the type who would spend $750 for an "audiophile" USB cable either.  I kid not - I have the link for such a beast (https://www.thecableco.com/Product/USB-SPS).  A lot of people have had good first-time results with the cheap ones and if you're unlucky like I was, you're not out more than the cost of a 6-pack if you can't fix them.


 

 Thanks, that makes sense.
 I'll give it a shot


----------



## MadDane

gumbydammit223 said:


> If you Google "socket saver" you'll find a few companies other than eBay that sell similar products for $2-3 apiece and one company that sells some for $25 apiece (http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm).  I personally think that price is outrageous.  But then again, I'm not the type who would spend $750 for an "audiophile" USB cable either.  I kid not - I have the link for such a beast (https://www.thecableco.com/Product/USB-SPS).  A lot of people have had good first-time results with the cheap ones and if you're unlucky like I was, you're not out more than the cost of a 6-pack if you can't fix them.




Yeah I think I paid $6 with shipping for mine and they've worked flawlessly.


----------



## lumpo

Hello - long-time lurker, first time poster. Just got a Valhalla 2 and I am unexpectedly underwhelmed after 3 hours on the clock, so seeking wisdom .....
  
 Pairing with HD650 and somewhat independent of the range of DACs I've tried with it thus far, the sound is sort of fluffy and rounded off at both ends. The low-mids seem swamped by the high bass with loss of definition. I've also noticed a collapse in the width of the sound stage too. The high end has developed the Senn 'veil' - which I haven't heard for quite some time with my SS amps, top end has been quite clear and defined enough when there's sufficient power. Overall the sound is of an older mid-soaked cheap amp with more bass. That can't be right?!?
  
 Given the fervor bestowed on this amp, especially with 650s, I wonder if:
 (i) I'm being impatient and I need to wait more hours for the tubes/valves to burn in? If so, how long before one could expect a better sound,
 (ii) I should just jump into tube rolling to find some input tubes that restore some better definition at both ends (Amperex 6922 or 7308 for example)?
  
 As matter of comparison I just listened to a Woo WA7 - the bass was better defined but still spilling over into the mids; the top end was so much better - even blind freddy could have spotted/heard the differences in resolution of (for example) fast hi hats. Unfortunately, on our island continent (Oz), these things are way over-priced and I wouldn't have thought that the difference was so dramatically different.
  
 Any advice or comments for a first-time tube HFA user gratefully welcomed.
  
 Thanks
  
 Lumpo


----------



## yangian

Is there anyone can tell me if I could use 5670/6n3 tubes substitute the 6n1s for Valhalla 2? Thanks.


----------



## Baldr

yangian said:


> Is there anyone can tell me if I could use 5670/6n3 tubes substitute the 6n1s for Valhalla 2? Thanks.


 

 See the two posts below: 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/784471/what-a-long-strange-trip-its-been-robert-hunter/540#post_12457606
  
@jacal01 correctly identifies the adapter you *must* use here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/784471/what-a-long-strange-trip-its-been-robert-hunter/540#post_12458892
  
 I am quite fond of the 6N3P's bang for the buck - there is an ebay vendor selling NOS GE 5670s which also are excellent value at 5 bucks as I recall.  The Western Electric 396A's are* stunning*, but 8-10x the money.  Really, really good for unplugged, classical, jazz, and vocals.
  
 IMHO YMMV


----------



## yangian

baldr said:


> See the two posts below:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/784471/what-a-long-strange-trip-its-been-robert-hunter/540#post_12457606
> 
> ...


 
 Oh, Baldr, thank you so much for this valuable information!


----------



## yangian

baldr said:


> I am quite fond of the 6N3P's bang for the buck - there is an ebay vendor selling NOS GE 5670s which also are excellent value at 5 bucks as I recall.  The Western Electric 396A's are* stunning*, but 8-10x the money.  Really, really good for unplugged, classical, jazz, and vocals.
> 
> IMHO YMMV


 
 Oh, Baldr, another questions. Do you think GE Jan. 5670 or Russia 6n3p-E has better sound quality than the stock tube 6n1s?
 And do you know how about WE396 compared to some reputated 6922/E88cc like Siemens E88cc?
 Thank you very much!


----------



## MadDane

yangian said:


> Oh, Baldr, another question. Do you think GE Jan. 5670 or Russia 6n3p-E has better sound quality than the stock tube 6n1s? Thank you very much!




Go for Russian 6N6P's I found them to have a greater depth, presence, and wonderful tonality.


----------



## yangian

maddane said:


> Go for Russian 6N6P's I found them to have a greater depth, presence, and wonderful tonality.


 
 But Valhalla 2 use 6n6p as power tubes. I'm talking about driver tubes. Can I use 4 6n6p tubes for V2?


----------



## MadDane

Sorry,

I meant 6N1P. I ended with these. Sublime!

USSR Russian Tubes 6N23P E88CC/ECC88/6DJ8 Gray Shields VOSKHOD 1975


----------



## yangian

maddane said:


> Sorry,
> 
> I meant 6N1P. I ended with these. Sublime!
> 
> USSR Russian Tubes 6N23P E88CC/ECC88/6DJ8 Gray Shields VOSKHOD 1975


 
 Oh, ok. I'll try. Thanks.


----------



## MadDane

yangian said:


> Oh, ok. I'll try. Thanks.




Sorry forgot to tell, you. .... on ebay!

Good luck, have fun!


----------



## yangian

maddane said:


> Sorry forgot to tell, you. .... on ebay!
> 
> Good luck, have fun!


 
 Could you specify which seller? Thanks!


----------



## MadDane

Exact same one's I bought! Jeez! Now they're $20 cheaper! WTH?!?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/USSR-Russian-Tube-6N23P-E88CC-ECC88-6DJ8-Gray-Shields-VOSKHOD-1975-/141912270881?hash=item210aa16821

(Edit) wait I think that's per tube! So actually $10 more! I paid @ $65 shipped in December.


----------



## h2rulz

Not sure if its appropriate to post here, but here's my impression/review of the socket savers I got from eBay.
 (it was here where I first asked about it anyways)
  
 So, I found a pricier socket savers on eBay, supposedly shipped/made from the US (NC). I got the original listing price down to $13 a pair from $13.95 (both not including a ridiculous $8.59 shipping fee). The description obviously went on about theirs being better than those from China. Now, I don't have any experience with socket savers from China. But I do know that these change the sound quality for the worse. There was clear loss in clarity that made the music sound very distant (it was plugged in all the way, and the pins were clean).
  
 It doesn't help that the socket savers came dirty (oily with some scratches) with rusted screws.
 So is this how a poor quality socket saver from China affect the sound?
 And did I just get whats essentially a socket saver from China disguised as something from the US?
  
 At this point, I'm not sure if I'll take another bite at it, and the ones from tubemonger is just too expensive IMO.


----------



## yangian

maddane said:


> Exact same one's I bought! Jeez! Now they're $20 cheaper! WTH?!?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/USSR-Russian-Tube-6N23P-E88CC-ECC88-6DJ8-Gray-Shields-VOSKHOD-1975-/141912270881?hash=item210aa16821
> 
> (Edit) wait I think that's per tube! So actually $10 more! I paid @ $65 shipped in December.


 
 Thank you! :0


----------



## Baldr

yangian said:


> Oh, Baldr, another questions. Do you think GE Jan. 5670 or Russia 6n3p-E has better sound quality than the stock tube 6n1s?
> And do you know how about WE396 compared to some reputated 6922/E88cc like Siemens E88cc?
> Thank you very much!


 
 The 6N3P/5670/2C51/396A tube has the curves/same specs as a 6DJ8/6922/6N23P but a totally different pinout.  Therefore, the need for the adapter.  Once the adapters are bought, new options are opened for Vali2/Valhalla/Lyr rollers.  Because the 6N3P/5670/2C51/396A tubes are rare in audio design, they are cheap on the open market.  Further there is no Western Electric option in the 6DJ8/6922/6N23P tube pinout family.  The best built tube of all of these are the Western Electric 396A, period.  It is just their relative unavailability and high cost make them unsuitable for production quantities.


----------



## MadDane

baldr said:


> The 6N3P/5670/2C51/396A tube has the curves/same specs as a 6DJ8/6922/6N23P but a totally different pinout.  Therefore, the need for the adapter.  Once the adapters are bought, new options are opened for Vali2/Valhalla/Lyr rollers.  Because the 6N3P/5670/2C51/396A tubes are rare in audio design, they are cheap on the open market.  Further there is no Western Electric option in the 6DJ8/6922/6N23P tube pinout family.  The best built tube of all of these are the Western Electric 396A, period.  It is just their relative unavailability and high cost make them unsuitable for production quantities.


 
  
  
 Great info, thanks Baldr!!


----------



## yangian

baldr said:


> The 6N3P/5670/2C51/396A tube has the curves/same specs as a 6DJ8/6922/6N23P but a totally different pinout.  Therefore, the need for the adapter.  Once the adapters are bought, new options are opened for Vali2/Valhalla/Lyr rollers.  Because the 6N3P/5670/2C51/396A tubes are rare in audio design, they are cheap on the open market.  Further there is no Western Electric option in the 6DJ8/6922/6N23P tube pinout family.  The best built tube of all of these are the Western Electric 396A, period.  It is just their relative unavailability and high cost make them unsuitable for production quantities.


 
 Thank you so much, Baldr!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 So you mean 6n3p and 6n1p should have similar sound quality, right?


----------



## GrindingThud

6n3p has half the transconductance of 6n23p I think.... 5.9 vs 12.7ma/V
It may work, and may sound good, even great, but they are different spec tubes.


baldr said:


> The 6N3P/5670/2C51/396A tube has the curves/same specs as a 6DJ8/6922/6N23P but a totally different pinout.  Therefore, the need for the adapter.  Once the adapters are bought, new options are opened for Vali2/Valhalla/Lyr rollers.  Because the 6N3P/5670/2C51/396A tubes are rare in audio design, they are cheap on the open market.  Further there is no Western Electric option in the 6DJ8/6922/6N23P tube pinout family.  The best built tube of all of these are the Western Electric 396A, period.  It is just their relative unavailability and high cost make them unsuitable for production quantities.


----------



## Baldr

grindingthud said:


> 6n3p has half the transconductance of 6n23p I think.... 5.9 vs 12.7ma/V
> It may work, and may sound good, even great, but they are different spec tubes.


 

 True, 6N23 is a match more for 6DJ8 family, 6N1P is twice the transconductance but also twice the filament current which should be evaluated before Rolling the 6N1Ps into gear designed for 6DJ8 and therefore 6N23's.  Please understand, the Valhalla was designed for the 6N1P.  My assertion is that the 6N3P is, given a different pinout and need for an adapter is compatible with the 6DJ8 etc. family.


----------



## GrindingThud

agree! 



baldr said:


> True, 6N23 is a match more for 6DJ8 family, 6N1P is twice the transconductance but also twice the filament current which should be evaluated before Rolling the 6N1Ps into gear designed for 6DJ8 and therefore 6N23's.  Please understand, the Valhalla was designed for the 6N1P.  My assertion is that the 6N3P is, given a different pinout and need for an adapter is compatible with the 6DJ8 etc. family.


----------



## Frederose

I know we've dabbled in the power tubes, but where could I find replacement for the original 6N6P ? Is the E182CC worth buying to get a better sound ? They seem quite hard to find.


----------



## limelake

Has anyone tried some of the newer offerings in the 6922 tubes like JJ's or EH and such ? I have been wanting to try the JJ's in my Valhalla 2 but have been putting it off.....


----------



## HTFW

I just rolled my first tubes into my Valhalla 2.  With my NOS tubes (6DJ8) I have to turn the volume knob about 2-3 -o'clock more than the stock tubes to get the same perceived loudness.  Is it normal for different tubes to require different volume settings?


----------



## limelake

so where do I find these adapters, (preferably in canada) to run 2c51/5670/396a tubes ? I


----------



## Baldr

limelake said:


> so where do I find these adapters, (preferably in canada) to run 2c51/5670/396a tubes ? I


 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1piece-Gold-plated-5670-6N3-2C51-TOP-TO-ECC88-6922-6N2-tube-converter-adapter-/191860745369?hash=item2cabcaa499:g:3pgAAOSwKfVXJciG


----------



## silversurfer616

Thread not dead yet.....new blood here!

Should get a Valhalla2 in a weeks time to go with my HD800S and if possible with some LCD2.

Had the V1 for a short time and liked it a lot, so I just hope that V2 is on the same level or even better.

Tubes for rolling due as well....

Just from memory, I did like the V1 more with theHD800 when compared to the WA6 or Crack with Speedball.


----------



## D Smith

I just received my Valhalla 2 and enjoying it greatly with the stock tubes and my Beyer DT880s.  After some 'getting to know you time', I am looking forward to trying some tube rolling based on the recommendations previously in this thread and the Lyr thread.


----------



## notfitforpublic

Received these yesterday to pair with a pair of Grey Shield 75 Rockets. Though i'm still burning them in they, and I find the 6N6P tubes to only supply subtle changes, they sound terrific. I enjoy the warm sound most Russian tubes seem to bring, with a slight bump in the bass, but these seem to bring a touch more control and refinement to the lower end than other tubes from the same factory and era I have tried. Great buy if you can snag them.
  
 Current and standing tube inventory
  
 70's *Novosibirsk *6N1P's x4 - Lush, warm, with a mid/sub bass bump sacrificing a touch of detail and treble
 75 *Rocket* *Grey Shields* 6N1P's x2 Great all rounder. not as warm *Novosibirsk *but better detail through out
 71 *Rockets* 6N1P's x2 Cleaner, less "tubey" than the *Novosibirsk. *Better treble and detail at the sacrifice of some bass
*Amperes Orange Globe Holland* x2 Still a warm tube, but brighter and cleaner than the *Rockets*. Excellent balance through out with a touch less bass
  
 70's *Novosibirsk *6N6P's x4 warm with a noticeable bass bump over stock. SOME bleeding into the mids
 80's *Novosibirsk *6N6P's x2 same as above but I find the 70's Russian tubes to do it better
 78 *Novosibirsk *Gold Pin 6N6P's x4 Not as much lift in the low end but a cleaner representation. 
  
 Didn't give the stock tubes a truly fair shake, but found them to be far too bright for my liking. All of the above have been a welcome addition. I don't do a ton of rolling, some times months go by before I get the itch to change things up, but most bring a nice change when I do.


----------



## mothmanex

notfitforpublic said:


> Received these yesterday to pair with a pair of Grey Shield 75 Rockets. Though i'm still burning them in they, and I find the 6N6P tubes to only supply subtle changes, they sound terrific. I enjoy the warm sound most Russian tubes seem to bring, with a slight bump in the bass, but these seem to bring a touch more control and refinement to the lower end than other tubes from the same factory and era I have tried. Great buy if you can snag them.
> 
> Current and standing tube inventory
> 
> ...


 

 Reading your tube inventory, it seems like the 75 Rocket Rey Shields or the Amperes Orange Globe Holland would work great for me. Just 2 questions, out of the two of them, which do you believe to fatigue you less (my Valhalla 2 on stock fatigues me way to fast in comparation to the magni 2)? Is it recommended to put x4 or x2 (the size vary, don't know a lot about tubes)?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## notfitforpublic

mothmanex said:


> Reading your tube inventory, it seems like the 75 Rocket Rey Shields or the Amperes Orange Globe Holland would work great for me. Just 2 questions, out of the two of them, which do you believe to fatigue you less (my Valhalla 2 on stock fatigues me way to fast in comparation to the magni 2)? Is it recommended to put x4 or x2 (the size vary, don't know a lot about tubes)?
> 
> Thanks.


 

 Found the Rockets to be a tad less fatiguing but not by much I'd say. I'd go looking for both and grab whatever ones cheaper for you, though I think I paid around the same for both. The taller tubes in your Valhalla are the 6N6P variants of tubes (output). These make less of a difference when rolling tubes with the Valhalla 2. That being said, swapping them out for some Russian Novosibirsk plant tubes from the 70's made a big enough difference in low end for me not to regret the purchase, and I do recommend if you find the Valhalla a little thin. The smaller tubes in front are the 6N1P variants (input). These tend to make the most noticeable difference in sound when rolling tubes, and where you would want to put the Rocket or Amperex Orange Globes. So to swap out the tubes entirely your looking at 2 6N6P's (or similar variant) for the tall tubes in back (Output) and 2 6N1P tubes (or similar variant) for the front input stage.
  
​Check http://schiit.com/products/valhalla-2 for more specifics on what tubes go where.


----------



## mothmanex

notfitforpublic said:


> Found the Rockets to be a tad less fatiguing but not by much I'd say. I'd go looking for both and grab whatever ones cheaper for you, though I think I paid around the same for both. The taller tubes in your Valhalla are the 6N6P variants of tubes (output). These make less of a difference when rolling tubes with the Valhalla 2. That being said, swapping them out for some Russian Novosibirsk plant tubes from the 70's made a big enough difference in low end for me not to regret the purchase, and I do recommend if you find the Valhalla a little thin. The smaller tubes in front are the 6N1P variants (input). These tend to make the most noticeable difference in sound when rolling tubes, and where you would want to put the Rocket or Amperex Orange Globes. So to swap out the tubes entirely your looking at 2 6N6P's (or similar variant) for the tall tubes in back (Output) and 2 6N1P tubes (or similar variant) for the front input stage.
> 
> ​Check http://schiit.com/products/valhalla-2 for more specifics on what tubes go where.


 

 Thank you for the reply. I will buy 3 pairs of tube for testing, rockets and orange globes you have and will see if I can find some Bugle boys. I will search also for some output ones, to see if they make a big difference.


----------



## D Smith

I just rolled in my first set of tubes after having listened to the stock tubes in the Valhalla 2 for the past month.  I used a pair of Amperex Orange Made in Holland ECC88s.  I wasn't sure if I would notice a difference or not, but they definitely sounded different. The high end was brighter and splashier, and the bass warmer and I would say, muddier though not displeasing to listen to. I have the feeling these tubes may be more fatiguing to listen to for long periods than the stock tubes but time will tell. Do most members audition tubes with pieces of music they are familiar with?  That's what I did, however I still had to rely on memory as to how the stock tubes sounded on the same pieces. I'll give these a month of listening and then perhaps try something else.


----------



## notfitforpublic

d smith said:


> I just rolled in my first set of tubes after having listened to the stock tubes in the Valhalla 2 for the past month.  I used a pair of Amperex Orange Made in Holland ECC88s.  I wasn't sure if I would notice a difference or not, but they definitely sounded different. The high end was brighter and splashier, and the bass warmer and I would say, muddier though not displeasing to listen to. I have the feeling these tubes may be more fatiguing to listen to for long periods than the stock tubes but time will tell. Do most members audition tubes with pieces of music they are familiar with?  That's what I did, however I still had to rely on memory as to how the stock tubes sounded on the same pieces. I'll give these a month of listening and then perhaps try something else.


 

 Depending on wether you bought them used or not, tubes need some time before they share they're true colours. 50-100hrs in you'll notice a lot of tubes smoothen out and become less fatiguing.


----------



## r2muchstuff

I now have a pair of:
  
 6FQ7 (6CG7) RCA Cleartop +/- 1970 (side getter)
  
 According to the Lyr & Lyr 2 compatibility Chart they will work in a Lyr (1).
  
 http://www.radiomuseum.org, has this:
  
  

*Base*Noval, B9A*Was used by*Radio/TV-reception etc.*Filament*Vf 6.3 Volts / If 0.6 Ampere 
  

  
 Are they OK for the Valhalla 2?
  
 I think so, but would like others thoughts.
  
 Thanks,
 r2


----------



## RoninChaos

Any suggestions for tubes with more bass for a set of HD 800 S?


----------



## yangian

baldr said:


> True, 6N23 is a match more for 6DJ8 family, 6N1P is twice the transconductance but also twice the filament current which should be evaluated before Rolling the 6N1Ps into gear designed for 6DJ8 and therefore 6N23's.  Please understand, the Valhalla was designed for the 6N1P.  My assertion is that the 6N3P is, given a different pinout and need for an adapter is compatible with the 6DJ8 etc. family.


 
  
  
 Hi, Baldr,
 Have you listened Val. 2 with 5670? It seems 5670s have better dynamic than 6n1p.


----------



## Baldr

yangian said:


> Hi, Baldr,
> Have you listened Val. 2 with 5670? It seems 5670s have better dynamic than 6n1p.


 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/784471/what-a-long-strange-trip-its-been-robert-hunter/540#post_12457606


----------



## marek17

Looking for some quality tubes for Schiit Valhalla 2 with headphones Beyerdynamic T1(for better Detail,Soundstage).
I use only stock tubes.(6n1p)

Lists of links tubes

http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/en/shop_TAD_Premium_Tubes_TAD_Pre_Amp_Tubes_SELECTED/6922_E88CC_TAD_Premium_Selected_balanced_550
http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/en/shop_TAD_Premium_Tubes_TAD_Pre_Amp_Tubes_SELECTED/5751_Highgrade_TAD_Premium_Selected_3597
http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/en/shop_TAD_Premium_Tubes_TAD_Pre_Amp_Tubes_SELECTED/7025_HIGHGRADE_TAD_Premium_Selected_390
http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/en/shop_TAD_Premium_Tubes_TAD_Pre_Amp_Tubes_SELECTED/7025_Y_HIGHGRADE_High_Gain_Ei_RC_NOS_4611

I do not know whether these tubes amplifier supported - Valhalla 2


----------



## r2muchstuff

marek17 said:


> Looking for some quality tubes for Schiit Valhalla 2 with headphones Beyerdynamic T1(for better Detail,Soundstage).
> I use only stock tubes.(6n1p)
> 
> Lists of links tubes
> ...


 

 You should read:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes/480
  
 Prior to ordering any tubes, it is only 33 pages  Plenty of good information.
  
 r2


----------



## notfitforpublic

marek17 said:


> Looking for some quality tubes for Schiit Valhalla 2 with headphones Beyerdynamic T1(for better Detail,Soundstage).
> I use only stock tubes.(6n1p)
> 
> Lists of links tubes
> ...


 

 Holland White or Orange Globe print A frames do really well with the T1.
  
 Some good research here as well


----------



## marek17

Is there a difference between the two manufacturers tubes (in sound)?

http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/catalog.php?product_search=e88cc
E88CC SIEMENS Gold 89€
E88CC Telefunken mit <> Raute, Gold-Kontakte 149€

17.8.2016

I ordered from a British store 2x Amperex E88CC.
https://web211.secure-secure.co.uk/tube-and-valve-electronics.co.uk/wholesale/product.asp?ID=3386


More I think about this brand. (Telefunken)
https://web211.secure-secure.co.uk/tube-and-valve-electronics.co.uk/wholesale/product.asp?ID=147

19.8.2016

Amperex E88CC Out of Stock

What kinds of tubes you can use it in Schiit Valhalla 2 in combination Beyerdynamic T1?

Telefunken E88CC
Telefunken 6922 (E88CC = 6922 ?,different cost)
Mullard E88CC

***Valhalla 2 tube supports E188CC?

22.2.2017
Problem solved. Amperex 6922 or E88CC.... SChiit Valhalla 2 Sold.


----------



## yangian

5670 is very obvious better than the stock tubes.


----------



## alitomr

Hello all,
  
 I am looking for tubes that sound a little more forward than stock of my Valhalla 2. 
  
 I saw there is a thread with a review of the 6922 that is apparently a must read for anyone considering tube rolling with the Valhalla 2. I am going there this afternoon after work. 
  
 Anyone?


----------



## notfitforpublic

alitomr said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I am looking for tubes that sound a little more forward than stock of my Valhalla 2.
> 
> ...


 

 Hmm... I found the stock tubes pretty in your face myself. What element are you looking to be more forward?
 Yup, great thread and with a read. Also google "tube lore"


----------



## ClintonL

So I just got a Valhalla 2 and wondering what are good value bang for buck tubes which will be better than stock.


----------



## notfitforpublic

clintonl said:


> So I just got a Valhalla 2 and wondering what are good value bang for buck tubes which will be better than stock.


 

 Start with what you want "better". Different tubes can take the Valhalla in different directions. What don't you like about the stock tubes?


----------



## notfitforpublic

As side note, bought some tubes used from someone that ending being quite noisy. Sanded the pins down a bit and bought a DeoxIT tube kit to give them a once over in hopes of bringing them back to life. Didn't help the tubes unfortunately, but also used the DeoxIT through out the rest of my system including the Valhalla. I had some pretty seriously reservations about using anything liquid near/in my amp but cleaning went well with minor but positive results. If anyone felt the need to give their Valhalla a once over for cleaning, I highly recommend it.


----------



## KoshNaranek

limelake said:


> Has anyone tried some of the newer offerings in the 6922 tubes like JJ's or EH and such ? I have been wanting to try the JJ's in my Valhalla 2 but have been putting it off.....




JJ Gold pins are my absolute favorite tube. Followed by Mullard E188cc then Telefunken E88cc. JJ standard pin sound remarkably close to the Telefunken to me. YMMV


----------



## DeadHead57

koshnaranek said:


> JJ Gold pins are my absolute favorite tube. Followed by Mullard E188cc then Telefunken E88cc. JJ standard pin sound remarkably close to the Telefunken to me. YMMV



Are these the same tubes I see going for about $25 each? You find them to be in the same league as the Telefunken! How do the differ from the stock tubes? I may have to pick up a pair.


----------



## KoshNaranek

deadhead57 said:


> Are these the same tubes I see going for about $25 each? You find them to be in the same league as the Telefunken! How do the differ from the stock tubes? I may have to pick up a pair.




I found the stock tube to be tubby and "tube like." The Telefunkens are dry, like a transistor amp.

I paid $60 per pair for matched and balanced from euro tubes. They performed poorly in the Lyr1 but in the Valhalla 2, they are rich, sweet and have a holographic presentation that easily gives you an idea of the space that the recording was made in.

In summary: Yes, I feel that a $60 pair of new tubes beats a $300 pair of Telefunkens from The Tube Store.

These are my opinions and are therefore not guaranteed to be aplicable to anyone but myself and two friends who agree me.


----------



## Anavel0

So my original tubes are finally giving up the ghost. Anyone care to PM with trusted tube sellers, please?


----------



## KoshNaranek

The $40 pair of JJ standard pins sounds a lot like the Telefunkens to me. Dry, accurate, revealing. The Telefunkens are slightly better, but you almost have to A/B to tell.


----------



## notfitforpublic

koshnaranek said:


> I found the stock tube to be tubby and "tube like."...


 
 I think you're the first person I've ever heard say this... ever. I found the stock tubes far from tubey or tube like. The stock Valhalla 2 comes equipped fairly neutral and uncoloured by tubes. Most i've seen dive into tube rolling are looking for more of that warm, organic tube sound usually associated with OTL tube amps, not the other way around.
  
_"Not Your Father’s Tube Amp_
_If you’re expecting syrupy, tubby, euphonically colored tube sound, you’re in for a shock. Valhalla 2 is exceptionally accurate, neutral, and resolving, without being strident or etched."_
 
 but hey, to each their own.


----------



## KoshNaranek

notfitforpublic said:


> I think you're the first person I've ever heard say this... ever. I found the stock tubes far from tubey or tube like. The stock Valhalla 2 comes equipped fairly neutral and uncoloured by tubes. Most i've seen dive into tube rolling are looking for more of that warm, organic tube sound usually associated with OTL tube amps, not the other way around.
> 
> _"Not Your Father’s Tube Amp_
> [COLOR=8F8F8F][COLOR=000000]_If you’re expecting syrupy, tubby, euphonically colored tube sound, you’re in for a shock. Valhalla 2 is exceptionally accurate, neutral, and resolving, without being strident or etched."_[/COLOR][/COLOR]
> ...




Perhaps I did not give the stock tubes a chance to break in. However, I found other tubes to be better right from the get go.

That being said, the Stock Valhalla 2 tubes sounded absolutely fantastic in the Lyr1. That is where they are now.

Perhaps it may be illuminating to you to know that my floorstanding speakers are electrostatic and my headphones are HD800. I guess I like sharp transients.


----------



## Robert777

While being a huge fan of the Valhalla 2 HD800 pairings ability to present a holographic soundstage and wonderful nuances of texture I was left feeling the sound was a little soft and dry. After a kind recommendation I installed some JJ Gold Pins. Now there is more slam, more bloom and more body. The dry, sterile softness is gone but all the positives remain. I do not think there has been a loss to any resolving details but it is hard to tell for sure.

Very happy indeed.


----------



## yangian

robert777 said:


> While being a huge fan of the Valhalla 2 HD800 pairings ability to present a holographic soundstage and wonderful nuances of texture I was left feeling the sound was a little soft and dry. After a kind recommendation I installed some JJ Gold Pins. Now there is more slam, more bloom and more body. The dry, sterile softness is gone but all the positives remain. I do not think there has been a loss to any resolving details but it is hard to tell for sure.
> 
> Very happy indeed.


 
  
 Yeah, the stock driver tubes are bad. Didn't change power tubes and have no idea.


----------



## notfitforpublic

yangian said:


> Yeah, the stock driver tubes are bad. Didn't change power tubes and have no idea.




Switching to some 70's Russian tubes added a touch more warmth and bottom end. But, difference was small compared to changing the the driver tubes.


----------



## bretemm

I just got back from guitar center, 
The guy never heard of schiit. 
I showed him the tube names rollable to, and he said that the names maybe "American version names"? He knows about the gold lion Russian tubes, but, dosnt carry them. 

He was kinda amazed that the valhalla2 was a Class A amp and that it was American made, 
For some reason he thought Schiit was British


----------



## bigro

notfitforpublic said:


> Switching to some 70's Russian tubes added a touch more warmth and bottom end. But, difference was small compared to changing the the driver tubes.


 
 I am running some late 70's Voskhod Rockets for the Driver tubes. I also swapped the Driver tubes that did not make much of a difference. I bought some tubes that were supposedly JJ's and did not like them. Lack of Bass and very Mid heavy. The Markings supposedly wore off. I may have to give another set off JJ's a run again (I did not think the markings changed the sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





). I may have missed this in the thread, Any thoughts on the Electro Harmonix EH 6922? I run one in My Vali 2 at work I am Curious about them in my Valhalla 2 now.


----------



## KoshNaranek

Which headphones are you using with your Valhalla bigro?


----------



## bigro

koshnaranek said:


> Which headphones are you using with your Valhalla bigro?


 

  No Headphones Right now. I Use it as a Pre amp for My 2 Channel Rig, Which Is Why The Freya Is a Welcome Release. Once the Freya is Release It will become an HP amp. I Am Going to Try My Hand at The "Open Alpha" From Mr. Speakers.What Headphones do you use?


----------



## KoshNaranek

bigro said:


> No Headphones Right now. I Use it as a Pre amp for My 2 Channel Rig, Which Is Why The Freya Is a Welcome Release. Once the Freya is Release It will become an HP amp. I Am Going to Try My Hand at The "Open Alpha" From Mr. Speakers.What Headphones do you use?




I got a pair of HD800 after the 800S came out and the price dropped. ATOMICBOB speaks highly of the HD650.

Aren't the Open Alpha headphones rather low impedance? I thought the Valhalla paired well with high impedance headphones that like large voltage swings? I do not wish to discourage you, experimentation is great fun, but they may pair better with your Vali 2.


----------



## bigro

koshnaranek said:


> I got a pair of HD800 after the 800S came out and the price dropped. ATOMICBOB speaks highly of the HD650.
> 
> Aren't the Open Alpha headphones rather low impedance? I thought the Valhalla paired well with high impedance headphones that like large voltage swings? I do not wish to discourage you, experimentation is great fun, but they may pair better with your Vali 2.


 

 I was Looking at the HD 600's and 650's, I really Liked the way they paired when I tried them at the Nashville meet. Still not out of the Question. I Bought a Pair of the Fostex TR series which is what the Alpha's are Based on and what I will use for the Project. I Really like the way the basic Fostex HP's out of the Box sounded with the Valhalla. They are not exactly efficient though.  I have them Plugged into my Vali 2 at work Right now. Yes, very Slow Day. If anything I will have a very Nice set Closed HP's for work.


----------



## DeadHead57

This has probably been discussed before but I have a question. I am considering getting socket savers for my Valhalla 2. How do you go about extracting the socket saver from the amp if you have an issue with them? It is hard enough getting tubes out when need be.


----------



## ZoNtO

Something like this:
  


 Be careful though, otherwise:


Spoiler



BUZZ!!


----------



## RoninChaos

Any suggestions for tubes that pair well with the 800S?


----------



## GumbyDammit223

deadhead57 said:


> This has probably been discussed before but I have a question. I am considering getting socket savers for my Valhalla 2. How do you go about extracting the socket saver from the amp if you have an issue with them? It is hard enough getting tubes out when need be.


 

 I've used a pair of hemostats (serrated jaws) with no problems.


----------



## h2rulz

deadhead57 said:


> This has probably been discussed before but I have a question. I am considering getting socket savers for my Valhalla 2. How do you go about extracting the socket saver from the amp if you have an issue with them? It is hard enough getting tubes out when need be.


 

@Mediahound did sell "tube Puller/Pliers" (http://www.head-fi.org/t/781613/tube-puller-tool-pliers).
 Tube rolling certainly has become much easier with them. I'm sure it will help with socket savers as well.
  
 Either shoot him a PM or check ebay for something similar.


----------



## Mediahound

h2rulz said:


> @Mediahound did sell "tube Puller/Pliers" (http://www.head-fi.org/t/781613/tube-puller-tool-pliers).
> Tube rolling certainly has become much easier with them. I'm sure it will help with socket savers as well.
> 
> Either shoot him a PM or check ebay for something similar.


 

 Yeah, you can PM me.


----------



## rhgg2

Hi all,
  
 Just a heads up. I spoke to Nick at Schiit about possibilities for swapping the output tubes (6N6P) in the Valhalla 2. He said to be careful not to use tubes which exceed the heater current of the stock tubes (750mA).
  
 In particular, this means you should NOT use 6N6P-I or 6N6P-IR (900mA), nor 6N30P or 6N30P-DR (850mA) - despite what the manual may say.


----------



## yangian

rhgg2 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Just a heads up. I spoke to Nick at Schiit about possibilities for swapping the output tubes (6N6P) in the Valhalla 2. He said to be careful not to use tubes which exceed the heater current of the stock tubes (750mA).
> 
> In particular, this means you should NOT use 6N6P-I or 6N6P-IR (900mA), nor 6N30P or 6N30P-DR (850mA) - despite what the manual may say.


 
  
 Does it affect only the lifetime of tubes or the interior parts of the amp. If only decreased the lifetime of tubes, that's ok since such tubes are not expensive.


----------



## rhgg2

yangian said:


> Does it affect only the lifetime of tubes or the interior parts of the amp. If only decreased the lifetime of tubes, that's ok since such tubes are not expensive.



Not just the tubes unfortunately. The windings on the transformer which power the tube heaters are rated for a certain current, so if you exceed that current the transformer may get hot, smell funny and eventually fail.


----------



## yangian

rhgg2 said:


> Not just the tubes unfortunately. The windings on the transformer which power the tube heaters are rated for a certain current, so if you exceed that current the transformer may get hot, smell funny and eventually fail.


 

 Ok, I see. Thanks.
 Do you know the power of the transformers? Website says: Two internal power transformers with over 2,000uF of filter capacitance
 But what I saw for other brand always give the power according to Walt.


----------



## rhgg2

yangian said:


> Ok, I see. Thanks.
> Do you know the power of the transformers? Website says: Two internal power transformers with over 2,000uF of filter capacitance
> But what I saw for other brand always give the power according to Walt.


 

 The 2000uF indicates how much filtering there is on the power supply (to get a stable DC voltage from the AC line).
 Some information at this link on the transformers:
  


> "Because of our chosen tubes, the heater current is significant—about 3A—so it was best to treat it to a separate transformer. The heater transformer is the smaller of the two. The larger transformer is dedicated entirely to the HV supply, which along with almost 2.000uF of filter capacitance gives us a nice stable power supply with a lot of reserves."


 
  
 The heater transformer provides 2.7A of current (2 x 6N1P at 600mA, 2 x 6N6P at 750mA) at 6.3V =~ 20W of power. To be safe in rolling tubes one should certainly keep the total current draw from all four tubes below 2.7A. But Nick suggests keeping the current draw of each tube below that of stock, which suggests that the input and output tube heaters are on separate transformer windings. In any case his advice is quite clear: do not exceed the heater current of the stock tubes when changing the output tubes.


----------



## yangian

rhgg2 said:


> The 2000uF indicates how much filtering there is on the power supply (to filter out noise on the AC line).
> Some information at this link on the transformers:
> 
> 
> The heater transformer provides 2.7A of current (2 x 6N1P at 600mA, 2 x 6N6P at 750mA) at 6.3V =~ 20W of power. To be safe in rolling tubes one should certainly keep the total current draw from all four tubes below 2.7A. But Nick suggests keeping the current draw of each tube below that of stock, which suggests that the input and output tube heaters are on separate transformer windings. In any case his advice is quite clear: do not exceed the heater current of the stock tubes when changing the output tubes.


 
  
 Thank you very much for the explanation!


----------



## limelake

rhgg2 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Just a heads up. I spoke to Nick at Schiit about possibilities for swapping the output tubes (6N6P) in the Valhalla 2. He said to be careful not to use tubes which exceed the heater current of the stock tubes (750mA).
> 
> In particular, this means you should NOT use 6N6P-I or 6N6P-IR (900mA), nor 6N30P or 6N30P-DR (850mA) - despite what the manual may say.


 
 So I bought tubes that are labeled 6N6P / 6H6PI .......are these okay ?


----------



## rhgg2

Yes, there is a source of confusion there.
  
 The stock Russian tube, which is OK, is called 6Н6П which can  be transliterated to 6N6P but also sometimes spelt out as 6H6n or 6H6Pi (since the last letter is a pi symbol).
 On the other hand, there is also 6Н6П-И or 6Н6П-ИР which transliterates as 6N6P-I or 6N6P-IR - these are the ones to avoid which require extra heater current.
  
 If you just check the Russian letters on the tube you should be able to see you have the right one.


----------



## Brad Maestas

bretemm said:


> I just got back from guitar center


 
 Well there's your problem right there. Nothing against the brave souls that work retail (like I used to) but GC is the last place I would go for tubes.


----------



## Brad Maestas

Tube vendors aside...
  
 I just received my Valhalla 2 (and Bifrost/HD 600/Blue Dragon V3) earlier this week and have been putting some hours on them. I'm not sure what _used_ to come with the Valhalla 2 but what I just received are mid-70s NOS Russian. Preamp tubes are Voshkod Rocket 6N1P 'XII-76' and power tubes are Novosibirsk 6N6P 'III⬠77'. I'm pretty sure I read some posts about early Valhalla 2s shipping with new modern production tubes. Did Schiit recently change to NOS Russians or have they always shipped with them? Mine are already sounding fantastic with only tens of hours of break in but I'm still interested in trying some others of course!


----------



## bigro

brad maestas said:


> Tube vendors aside...
> 
> I just received my Valhalla 2 (and Bifrost/HD 600/Blue Dragon V3) earlier this week and have been putting some hours on them. I'm not sure what _used_ to come with the Valhalla 2 but what I just received are mid-70s NOS Russian. Preamp tubes are Voshkod Rocket 6N1P 'XII-76' and power tubes are Novosibirsk 6N6P 'III⬠77'. I'm pretty sure I read some posts about early Valhalla 2s shipping with new modern production tubes. Did Schiit recently change to NOS Russians or have they always shipped with them? Mine are already sounding fantastic with only tens of hours of break in but I'm still interested in trying some others of course!


 
 Hmm I do not remember I think they were some NOS as well.  I am running those mid 70's Voshkod Rockets 6N1P's and I like them better than what Shipped with Mine. On the Power tubes I tried a few with no real difference.


----------



## notfitforpublic

brad maestas said:


> Tube vendors aside...
> 
> I just received my Valhalla 2 (and Bifrost/HD 600/Blue Dragon V3) earlier this week and have been putting some hours on them. I'm not sure what _used_ to come with the Valhalla 2 but what I just received are mid-70s NOS Russian. Preamp tubes are Voshkod Rocket 6N1P 'XII-76' and power tubes are Novosibirsk 6N6P 'III⬠77'. I'm pretty sure I read some posts about early Valhalla 2s shipping with new modern production tubes. Did Schiit recently change to NOS Russians or have they always shipped with them? Mine are already sounding fantastic with only tens of hours of break in but I'm still interested in trying some others of course!


 

 I don't think there has been a standard for what Schiit has been packaging with the Valhalla. Every time I see posts on stock tubes they tend to be different. They have usually been NOS tubes (typically russian, but i've seen all sorts) over current production I believe though.
  
 You, my friend, have lucked out however. 70's tubes from both the Voshkod and Novosibirsk plants have been some of my favourites on the less expensive tube end of things. They were much warmer, with more low end and much less fatiguing than the stock tubes I received. Enjoyed them so much in the fact that I've got a few spare sets sitting around and thought I would look no further at the time... but we all know how that goes


----------



## bigro

notfitforpublic said:


> I don't think there has been a standard for what Schiit has been packaging with the Valhalla. Every time I see posts on stock tubes they tend to be different. They have usually been NOS tubes (typically russian, but i've seen all sorts) over current production I believe though.
> 
> *You, my friend, have lucked out however. 70's tubes from both the Voshkod and Novosibirsk plants have been some of my favourites on the less expensive tube end of things. They were much warmer, with more low end and much less fatiguing than the stock tubes* I received. Enjoyed them so much in the fact that I've got a few spare sets sitting around and thought I would look no further at the time... but we all know how that goes


 
 This.  I have had the JJ E88CC / 6922 Gold suggested which I may try but I am not in a rush. I really enjoy the Mid 70's Voshkod Rockets.


----------



## KoshNaranek

bigro said:


> This.  I have had the JJ E88CC / 6922 Gold suggested which I may try but I am not in a rush. I really enjoy the Mid 70's Voshkod Rockets.




If you like warm, stay with them. If you want punch, go JJ or Mullard 7308


----------



## bigro

koshnaranek said:


> If you like warm, stay with them. If you want punch, go JJ or Mullard 7308


 
 I decided to Try the Valhalla 2 With With Beyerdynamic DT990 600 Ohm Headphones. From reading the Mids can be a little Recessed. I will See How these do and then Decide from there.


----------



## KoshNaranek

bigro said:


> I decided to Try the Valhalla 2 With With Beyerdynamic DT990 600 Ohm Headphones. From reading the Mids can be a little Recessed. I will See How these do and then Decide from there.




A very nice headphone. I had a pair before giving them to my father. Very comfortable and pleasant sounding


----------



## bigro

koshnaranek said:


> A very nice headphone. I had a pair before giving them to my father. Very comfortable and pleasant sounding


 

 I was Looking at the very Popular Senn HD600/650 as well, all have their strengths but from the reviews I have read the DT990 sounds more "open and airy" and have a little bit more definition in the low end. Being a 2 Channel guy first, I do miss the tight  low end that a lot headphones lack. I have a slight concern that some people complained about the highs being a bit much other said it was not. The peak in the treble seems to be a little bit lower on the spectrum that some Grados.( Grados, to my ears very fatiguing)  Did you use them with your Valhalla ?


----------



## Brad Maestas

notfitforpublic said:


> I don't think there has been a standard for what Schiit has been packaging with the Valhalla. Every time I see posts on stock tubes they tend to be different. They have usually been NOS tubes (typically russian, but i've seen all sorts) over current production I believe though.
> 
> *You, my friend, have lucked out however.* 70's tubes from both the Voshkod and Novosibirsk plants have been some of my favourites on the less expensive tube end of things. They were much warmer, with more low end and much less fatiguing than the stock tubes I received. Enjoyed them so much in the fact that I've got a few spare sets sitting around and thought I would look no further at the time... but we all know how that goes


 
 That's what I thought! I did my due diligence researching these particular Russian tubes that I didn't know much about and here I got a decent set from them to start with. Thank you Schiit Audio. Their value is not lost on me. Still gonna get some gold JJs and some 6N23P Reflectors.


----------



## Husky22

Hi Everyone! New member here! 
  
 I have ordered and received a Valhalla 2 and a pair of Beyerdynamic DT 990 "Edition" 600 Ohm headphones. These are my first ever pair of headphones I've ever owned - I'M EXCITED!
  
 The only thing is... ...It's a Christmas present I got for myself and I told myself that I have to wait of course...       It's been sitting unopened in my room - staring at me and begging to be opened and used! I'm being tortured by a Samsung soundbar!
  
 I would like to ask what the best tubes would be if I wanted a very warm, bassy sound (I like that warm bass hum).
  
 I'm new to tubes and stuff, so it's a bit confusing for me... I will be sticking with the stock tubes in my Valhalla 2 and burn them in for a while and I will only roll them if I'm not satisfied.
  
  
 Thanks, Husky


----------



## KoshNaranek

bigro said:


> I was Looking at the very Popular Senn HD600/650 as well, all have their strengths but from the reviews I have read the DT990 sounds more "open and airy" and have a little bit more definition in the low end. Being a 2 Channel guy first, I do miss the tight  low end that a lot headphones lack. I have a slight concern that some people complained about the highs being a bit much other said it was not. The peak in the treble seems to be a little bit lower on the spectrum that some Grados.( Grados, to my ears very fatiguing)  Did you use them with your Valhalla ?




I have a pair of Grado headphones that are in need of repair and have not gotten around to it. I got 250 ohm Beyerdynamic 990s for $110 at Newegg. At that price, I see no reason not to have both them and the Senheiser.

I found a big change in sound to occur with tube changes, but I would not recommend spending more than $60 per pair. I do not know what you mean by warm bass. I will give you my tube list this afternoon and we can discuss.


----------



## bigro

husky22 said:


> Hi Everyone! New member here!
> 
> I have ordered and received a Valhalla 2 and a pair of Beyerdynamic DT 990 "Edition" 600 Ohm headphones. These are my first ever pair of headphones I've ever owned - I'M EXCITED!
> 
> ...


 
 The Cliche saying around here is Welcome, Sorry about your wallet. You will figure that out when you get a case of upgradeitis. I would say get some hours on the Valhalla2 and the Beyers to let them burn in/ break in/ or brain in. whatever term you prefer. Gather the Info on the tubes but Once you spend some time with it make a decision on what signature you want from the tubes. Headphones all have their unique sound and since you have self control that borderlines torture, waiting to see what type of tube will tailor the sound to your liking witht he DT990' may be a good idea and save you some cash. I do have a question what do you mean by warm bass hum? 
    
 If You Insist in inflicting Self Torture I have a Set of the DT 990 Premium 600ohm on the way. It should be here early next week. I will Give it a Run with my Valhalla 2 and give you some impressions so you can live vicariously through me.  Hopefully you luck out like *Brad Maestas *and get a set of the Voshkod Rockets with your Valhalla 2. They are a good starting point.


koshnaranek said:


> I have a pair of Grado headphones that are in need of repair and have not gotten around to it. I got 250 ohm Beyerdynamic 990s for $110 at Newegg. At that price, I see no reason not to have both them and the Senheiser.
> 
> I found a big change in sound to occur with tube changes, but I would not recommend spending more than $60 per pair. I do not know what you mean by warm bass. I will give you my tube list this afternoon and we can discuss.


 
 I think Husky 22 Wanted Warm Bass 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 I found an DT 990 premium 600 ohm for 135 shipped, so I could not pass them up.  Those fostex cans that I am attempting to make the Open Alphas with will go to the Vali 2 as you recommended. My Reservation in getting the Senns down the road is I have 3 Sets of cans I do not use any more and they are sitting in a closet. They are not terribly Expensive so I may just gift them to Audio Curious friends and family. so I have more room on my closet shelf.


----------



## KoshNaranek

Here is a list of tubes I have tried in the Valhalla and their Cost:
  
 1. JJ Gold pin($60)
 2. NOS 7308 Mullard($200)
 3. NOS Telefunken E88CC($300)
 4. JJ standard pin($40)
 5. NOS Sylvania($50)
 6. NOS Phillips PCC88($160)
 7. NOS Toshiba PCC88($40)
 8. NOS Mazda ECC804($22)
 9. Electro Harmonix E88CC($50)
 10. Vosjkod Rocket(stock tube)
  
 This list moves form more revealing to warmer except for the JJ Gold pins which I think are both revealing and warm. Someone may tell me that they actually may have a lot of harmonic distortion and I would not argue. I just think they sound like nothing else I have ever heard before and I like them a lot. I hope someone can benefit from the this and avoids the mistake I made, which was to believe some of the NOS hype. I do not think there is any reason to spend more than $60 on a pair of tubes.


----------



## bigro

koshnaranek said:


> Here is a list of tubes I have tried in the Valhalla and their Cost:
> 
> 1. JJ Gold pin($60)
> 2. NOS 7308 Mullard($200)
> ...


 

 Sweet. This is a great list. You have convinced me, there will be some JJ Gold Pins Ordered Shortly.


----------



## pctazhp

bigro said:


> Sweet. This is a great list. You have convinced me, there will be some JJ Gold Pins Ordered Shortly.


 

 Yeah. Me too. But caution. I dropped one of the original tubes into the hole while I was trying to pull it out with my fingers. The V2 is very carefully designed so that once that happens the tube will move everywhere inside while shaking the amp EXCEPT where it will come out of the hole 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But finally got it out


----------



## notfitforpublic

Alright, if a pair of current production tubes are getting some hype here I gotta try them. Do we have a recommend source for match JJ Gold Pin pairs? 


koshnaranek said:


> Here is a list of tubes I have tried in the Valhalla and their Cost:
> 
> 1. JJ Gold pin($60)
> 2. NOS 7308 Mullard($200)
> ...


----------



## KoshNaranek

notfitforpublic said:


> Alright, if a pair of current production tubes are getting some hype here I gotta try them. Do we have a recommend source for match JJ Gold Pin pairs?





I am always nervous when people spend money upon my recommendation. I am really just trying to convey that there is little correlation between price and sound. YMMV

I got mine from Euro tubes


----------



## notfitforpublic

koshnaranek said:


> I am always nervous when people spend money upon my recommendation. I am really just trying to convey that there is little correlation between price and sound. YMMV
> 
> I got mine from Euro tubes


 

 No need to be nervous, I'm always open to suggestions and in the end, the decision to purchase is my own. The prospect of finding a good sounding, current production tube is enticing. Beats hunting down NOS tubes from reliable buyers.
  
 Cheers, I'll check out Euro tubes.


----------



## Brad Maestas

I've used TubeDepot and TheTubeStore over the years for my music gear. I've rolled a ton of tubes new and NOS through my James Demeter VTBP-201s bass preamp and I liked the JJ gold pins (7025) in there. The Sovtek LPS was also a nice one. The set that's in there now are from RAM Labs which are basically highly tested, selected and re-branded modern Sovteks. I may also try their 6922 in the Valhalla. Could be interesting. Haven't seen that one mentioned here yet. Their site drops you at tubeaudiostore.com where they offer three grades of each.
  
 http://www.tubeaudiostore.com/tubes.html
  
 I'm not sure what the matching accuracy is for TubeDepot or TheTubeStore but TD is offering matching balanced triodes and seems to offer an additional level of screening for low noise & microphonics, and they're the cheapest I've seen around at $23.95 base. Anyone know more about this? They also have 6N23P Reflectors but of course they're not cheap. I think I'm just gonna order those from Russia.


----------



## r2muchstuff

6N1P & 6N6P


----------



## grotster

*Note that I do not have any kind of relationship, business or personal with anything mentioned here*

I have had my Valhalla 2 for nearly a year, I have rolled in a bunch of tubes from the likes of Mullard and Phillips that have cost me over $300 a pair. Well..... I was digging around the Internet and found a thread that was talking about some tubes from Taiwan and the consensus was that they were awesome for their price point - they are $20 for a pair. 

After a long time pondering ($20 for a pair pondering is like 7 or 8 seconds) I decided to order two sets based upon those reviews.

Well, gosh darn it - these guys straight out of the box blow away anything else that I have. They are pitch black dark and very dynamic with absolutely no harshness and that is even when fresh out of the box. These tubes pair perfectly with the Valhalla 2.

I just ordered me some more so I am set for a lifetime of listening right now and as such I am willing to share a link to the eBay listing where I bought these from.

For $20 these are giant killers in a Schiit Valhalla 2.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/172355431995?_mwBanner=1


----------



## joshdh

http://imgur.com/a/yOHCT
  
 I got these stock with my Valhalla 2, but I can't find any info on them online. It also seems that one of the 2 smaller tubes has a 7 at the end of their product number and the other has a 5. One of them lights up much brighter than the other.
  
 Could anyone identify them?


----------



## notfitforpublic

grotster said:


> *Note that I do not have any kind of relationship, business or personal with anything mentioned here*
> 
> I have had my Valhalla 2 for nearly a year, I have rolled in a bunch of tubes from the likes of Mullard and Phillips that have cost me over $300 a pair. Well..... I was digging around the Internet and found a thread that was talking about some tubes from Taiwan and the consensus was that they were awesome for their price point - they are $20 for a pair.
> 
> ...


 

 What tubes specifically are you comparing them to? Care to share a little more detail on the sound sig and comparisons of these tubes?


----------



## yangian

grotster said:


> *Note that I do not have any kind of relationship, business or personal with anything mentioned here*
> 
> I have had my Valhalla 2 for nearly a year, I have rolled in a bunch of tubes from the likes of Mullard and Phillips that have cost me over $300 a pair. Well..... I was digging around the Internet and found a thread that was talking about some tubes from Taiwan and the consensus was that they were awesome for their price point - they are $20 for a pair.
> 
> ...


 
  


notfitforpublic said:


> What tubes specifically are you comparing them to? Care to share a little more detail on the sound sig and comparisons of these tubes?


 
  
 Co-asked. Since I bought a tube ampliifer from Taobao and the stock Shuguang 6n3p and 6n5p tubes are bad.


----------



## Oskari

grotster said:


> http://m.ebay.com/itm/172355431995?_mwBanner=1




The photo shows vintage Beijing 6N11 tubes.


----------



## Oskari

joshdh said:


> http://imgur.com/a/yOHCT
> 
> I got these stock with my Valhalla 2, but I can't find any info on them online. It also seems that one of the 2 smaller tubes has a 7 at the end of their product number and the other has a 5. One of them lights up much brighter than the other.
> 
> Could anyone identify them?




What you have are NEVZ-Soyuz (Novosibirsk) 6N6P and Voskhod (Kaluga) 6N1P tubes. The 6N1Ps have differing dates but that shouldn't be a problem.


----------



## RoninChaos

Couple of questions. I have the HD800 S and they're great. Any suggestions on tubes that are slightly warmer? Also, you just change out the front tubes right? Or do you do all 4?

Thanks!


----------



## KoshNaranek

roninchaos said:


> Couple of questions. I have the HD800 S and they're great. Any suggestions on tubes that are slightly warmer? Also, you just change out the front tubes right? Or do you do all 4?
> 
> Thanks!




You want tubes warmer than stock?


----------



## RoninChaos

koshnaranek said:


> You want tubes warmer than stock?




Yeah I do. The HD 800 S are great but they sound a bit cold. I'm hoping to warm them up just a bit.


----------



## KoshNaranek

roninchaos said:


> Yeah I do. The HD 800 S are great but they sound a bit cold. I'm hoping to warm them up just a bit.




Answer 1: Just roll the front tubes 

Answer 2: I suppose you could try a long plate 6cg7. This should be warmer. I have no personal experience with this however.

My real answer: The HD800 is NOT a warm transducer. Try a 600 ohm or 250 ohm Beyerdynamic DT990. They are less than $150 and may be a better place to start before you jump down the tube rolling rabbit hole.


----------



## limelake

Warmer ? Roll in some JAN-GE 5670's with the adapter available on ebay. I did....sounds yummy but real !


----------



## Brad Maestas

joshdh said:


> http://imgur.com/a/yOHCT
> 
> I got these stock with my Valhalla 2, but I can't find any info on them online. It also seems that one of the 2 smaller tubes has a 7 at the end of their product number and the other has a 5. One of them lights up much brighter than the other.
> 
> Could anyone identify them?


 
 These are exactly what I got but your preamp tubes are from 1973, not 1976 like mine. Seems like Schiit is sitting on a healthy supply of nice NOS tubes to ship out with their Valhallas. Makes me feel good about buying into the brand. Seemingly against the typical tide they are shipping better and better tubes with their products instead of the other way around.


----------



## Husky22

I just unboxed and have started listening to my new Valhalla 2!
  
 The tubes it came with have the pentagon symbol on them which I think means they are Novosibirsk tubes.
  
 So far, after not even 2 hours of use, the amp sounds amazing! I am listening to them on my first pair of headphones I've ever used in my life - the Beyerdynamic DT 990 600 Ohm "Edition" headphones. So far I'm really enjoying it, it has a very pleasant and smooth sound that makes me want to listen to more and more music.
  
 I did notice a huge improvement in bass, volume and soundstage after 2 hours.
  
 The only problem I have now is not because of the amp or headphones, but actually my computer. There is a buzzing electrical processing noise that comes through at almost all volumes, only music drowns it out. It becomes unbearable when my graphics card kicks in.
  
 This is NOT the amp or headphones' fault, it's my PC (doesn't happen with my phone). I am planning on getting a Schiit Bifrost Delta Sigma DAC later on.
  
 Husky


----------



## bboris77

husky22 said:


> I just unboxed and have started listening to my new Valhalla 2!
> 
> The tubes it came with have the pentagon symbol on them which I think means they are Novosibirsk tubes.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi, I had a similar issue with my PC - graphics card coil whine was audible via usb connection. I have a Bifrost Multibit and a Wyrd in between. It was only audible on high gain at very high volumes. The thing that took care of it 100% was EBTech Hum X. It basically broke the ground loop antenna rggrvy that was formed between my PC and the Valhalla 2. The point is, even if you use the usb connection, ground loop will be there as it is not galvanically isolated. Using an optical out of the PC into the Bifrost would take care of the issue without the need for the Hum X.


----------



## Husky22

bboris77 said:


> Hi, I had a similar issue with my PC - graphics card coil whine was audible via usb connection. I have a Bifrost Multibit and a Wyrd in between. It was only audible on high gain at very high volumes. The thing that took care of it 100% was EBTech Hum X. It basically broke the ground loop antenna rggrvy that was formed between my PC and the Valhalla 2. The point is, even if you use the usb connection, ground loop will be there as it is not galvanically isolated. Using an optical out of the PC into the Bifrost would take care of the issue without the need for the Hum X.


 
 I have both USB and Optical TOSLINK cables so I'll try USB first and if that gives issues then I'll try optical. It seems to be related to my computers load.


----------



## r2muchstuff

The Valhalla 2 supports 600mA heater tubes, the 6N1P is an example.
  
 The 6N1P is reported to be electrically equivalent to the 6SN7.
  
 With socket savers and adapters has anyone run 6SN7 tubes in the Valhalla 2 (in the front pre position)?
  
 The 6SN7 are working great in the Lyr 1 and Vali 2, so just wondering.
  
 r2


----------



## rnros

R2:
Yes, I have. Not extensively, just to compare with 6SN7 in the Lyr1. Only tried one of my favorite 6SN7 and not impressed. I'll give you more detail later.


----------



## r2muchstuff

rnros said:


> R2:
> Yes, I have. Not extensively, just to compare with 6SN7 in the Lyr1. Only tried one of my favorite 6SN7 and not impressed. I'll give you more detail later.


 

 RR,
  
 I should have known that you would be on this 
 I will hold off on ordering more adapters.
  
 Thanks,
  
 r2


----------



## rnros

R2: Here are some notes from a previous discussion:
  
_T1.2 on the Valhalla2, here's how it comes down in A/B with Lyr1:_
  
_Lyr1(SYL6SN7GTB) >> Valhalla2(RFL6N3PE) = Lyr1(RFL6N3PE) >> Valhalla2(6SN7GTB)_
  
_This is only for the T1.2, it actually plays well with either amp, the greatest difference here is the amp/tube combination._
_The Lyr1 w/SYL6SN7 easily pulls ahead of the other combinations. The other combo's are good, I suspect most would like the larger scaling mids of the Valhalla2 w/6N3PE over the Lyr1 w/6N3PE, I'm split on these two, the Lyr1 offers slightly better detail. Biggest surprise was the less attractive combination of the SYL6SN7 in the Valhalla2, mids are too smooth and large at the expense of clarity and tone._
  
_Only tried these two tubes; the 57 SYL 6SN7GTB Chrome Dome is one of my favorites, and I have yet to find a Euro or USA small tube (6922 family) that surpasses the RFL6N3PE. These were late '80s (86or88or89?)_
  
 Expected better, but there are more 6SN7s to try, one of the 6SN7s with leaner mids might fare better with VLH2.
 This is just a question of synergy and SQ, the 6SN7s do work with the VLH2 with no issues in this short test of +/-2 hours.


----------



## notfitforpublic

I’ve read a number of people replacing the 6N1P tubes in the Valhalla 2 with 6CG7 tubes like RCA 6cg7 clear top and reporting good results. Just wanted to check with you good folks before I try a set out since the 6CG7 tube style isn’t on the Valhalla compatibility list.
  
 Anyone have any experience?


----------



## rnros

notfitforpublic said:


> I’ve read a number of people replacing the 6N1P tubes in the Valhalla 2 with 6CG7 tubes like RCA 6cg7 clear top and reporting good results. Just wanted to check with you good folks before I try a set out since the 6CG7 tube style isn’t on the Valhalla compatibility list.
> 
> Anyone have any experience?


 

 I have tried the General Electric 6FQ7/6CG7. The 6FQ7 and 6CG7 are the same except for a center shield between the triodes, the 6CG7 has a shield between triodes, the 6FQ7 does not.
 This is a 6.3V/600mA heater, so not suitable for Lyr2 or MJ2. Does not require adapter.
  
 It is an excellent tube for the VALH2 by my experience, but I can only vouch for this GE version of the tube. Purchased a few matched pairs on eBay for about $40/pair.
 I would place it in the top handful of my favorite tubes for the VALH2. Excellent with reference to tonal balance, extension top and bottom, and soundstage projection, and no excess energy in any frequency range.
 For me, and my setup, a better tube (VALH2) than the American or European 6DJ8/6922 family. Excellent value, actually, fantastic value compared to some of the other well regarded tubes.
 As always, YMMV.


----------



## notfitforpublic

rnros said:


> I have tried the General Electric 6FQ7/6CG7. The 6FQ7 and 6CG7 are the same except for a center shield between the triodes, the 6CG7 has a shield between triodes, the 6FQ7 does not.
> This is a 6.3V/600mA heater, so not suitable for Lyr2 or MJ2. Does not require adapter.
> 
> It is an excellent tube for the VALH2 by my experience, but I can only vouch for this GE version of the tube. Purchased a few matched pairs on eBay for about $40/pair.
> ...


 

 So thats a big fat yes for compatibility on the Valhalla 2, nice!  Appreciate the the quick response. I'll post my thoughts once they come in.


----------



## D Smith

rnros said:


> I have tried the General Electric 6FQ7/6CG7. The 6FQ7 and 6CG7 are the same except for a center shield between the triodes, the 6CG7 has a shield between triodes, the 6FQ7 does not.
> This is a 6.3V/600mA heater, so not suitable for Lyr2 or MJ2. Does not require adapter.
> 
> It is an excellent tube for the VALH2 by my experience, but I can only vouch for this GE version of the tube. Purchased a few matched pairs on eBay for about $40/pair.
> ...


 

 Thanks for this information. I just ordered a pair of GE 6CG7 for my Valhalla 2. I'll be quite interested to see how they compare to my favorite Amperex 6DJ8s.


----------



## rnros

Quote:


notfitforpublic said:


> So thats a big fat yes for compatibility on the Valhalla 2, nice!  Appreciate the the quick response. I'll post my thoughts once they come in.


 
  


d smith said:


> Thanks for this information. I just ordered a pair of GE 6CG7 for my Valhalla 2. I'll be quite interested to see how they compare to my favorite Amperex 6DJ8s.


 
 My 6FQ7/6CG7 came from this seller, true NOS in original box and nicely matched also:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6CG7-6FQ7-GE-Matched-Pair-VACUUM-TUBES-NOS-Lot-Vintage-Amplifier-Valves-TV7-Test-/112251528792?hash=item1a22b66658:gbQAAOSwZ8ZXBq7~


----------



## Currawong

I tried the 6FQ7 pair I have and they work fine. I just put in 2C51s with adaptors (6N3 to ECC88) and the slight flatness to the Valhalla's sound (noticeable in comparisons) is no longer there. This is the tube Mike had pictured in his Vali 2.


----------



## D Smith

I picked up a pair of GE 6CG7s and have been listening to them in my Valhalla 2. I am very pleased with the sound which is pretty neutral but full and clean.  The Amperex 6DJ8s I normally listen to are definitely warmer but these are just as good.


----------



## gearofwar

Hi, Does anyone know if there are differences in tube compability between Vahalla 1 (rollable ver) and 2? Thanks . Currently want to upgrade the stock tubes on my Valhalla 1 which has been confirmed for tube rolling. Any recommendation?


----------



## beginner1

Guys one of the power tubes in valhalla 2 is gone, anyone recommend replacements?


----------



## rhgg2

lci_electronics  / orpheus_2005 is a trustworthy ebay seller I have used. This pair look excellent:
  
www.ebay.com/itm/6N6P-6-6-MATCHED-BALANCED-PAIR-NOVOSIBIRSK-GOLD-GRID-Audio-TUBES-ECC99-E182CC-/302206540401


----------



## r2muchstuff

beginner1 said:


> Guys one of the power tubes in valhalla 2 is gone, anyone recommend replacements?


 

 I just received a pair of these for backup, 1977, tested no issues.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N6P-6-6-MATCHED-PAIR-70s-NOVOSIBIRSK-GOLD-GRID-TUBES-ECC99-E182CC-/252747344485?hash=item3ad8ea6a65
  
 Running a different pair of them, 1978, for a while and have been very pleased.
  
 JMTC,
 r2


----------



## beginner1

Thanks!  Will give em a shot


----------



## gearofwar

I'm new to tubes, can anyone recommend a pair of tubes that pairs well with HD800 or Elear? I'm using a valhalla 1.2. Also beside swapping the pre-amp tubes, I'm not sure if this model allows to swap out also those  6N6P  on the back. Thanks.


----------



## bigro

rhgg2 said:


> lci_electronics  / orpheus_2005 is a trustworthy ebay seller I have used. This pair look excellent:
> 
> www.ebay.com/itm/6N6P-6-6-MATCHED-BALANCED-PAIR-NOVOSIBIRSK-GOLD-GRID-Audio-TUBES-ECC99-E182CC-/302206540401


 

 I have bought tubes from them too,Multiple times. One of two ebay sellers I have bookmarked.


----------



## Azurik

Just a quick one. I'm getting my Valhalla 2 soon and wondered how tube rolling works in case i do not like the stock tubes with my hd700. 

Do i swap always a pair (front only, back only), can i swap one in the front one in the back or generally as i see fit? 

Also what is it with input, output tubes? 
I take it the larger ones are different to the smaller at the front? 

Sorry for the noob question as I'm sure i will be happy with the stock ones


----------



## limelake

azurik said:


> Just a quick one. I'm getting my Valhalla 2 soon and wondered how tube rolling works in case i do not like the stock tubes with my hd700.
> 
> Do i swap always a pair (front only, back only), can i swap one in the front one in the back or generally as i see fit?
> 
> ...




Swap in pairs....front or back...swap 2 fronts or 2 backs in pairs.


----------



## limelake

The stock ones are fantastic. I like em just dandy!


----------



## Hansolo76

rhgg2 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Just a heads up. I spoke to Nick at Schiit about possibilities for swapping the output tubes (6N6P) in the Valhalla 2. He said to be careful not to use tubes which exceed the heater current of the stock tubes (750mA).
> 
> In particular, this means you should NOT use 6N6P-I or 6N6P-IR (900mA), nor 6N30P or 6N30P-DR (850mA) - despite what the manual may say.


 
  
 I have a Little Dot MK III with a bunch of NOS matched 6N6P, 6N6P-I, and 6N6P-IR sets.  I was planning on selling it with the 30+ tubes that I've collected over the last year to buy a Valhalla 2, but I wanted to make sure that I had all the correct information first.
  
 Here is the conversation that I just had with Nick T. from Schiit technical support:
  
*Me:*
  


> > > > > _I currently have a Little Dot MK III and have a supply of 6N6P tubes.  I am going to purchase a Valhalla 2 in the next week or so and was wondering which tubes I have will work with your amp.  I currently have 6N6P, 6N6P-I, and 6N6P-IR in matched sets all manufactured by Novosibirsk.  Can you tell me which ones will work in the Valhalla 2 and why if any won't work?_
> > > > >
> > > > > *Nick:*
> > > > >
> > > > > _The 6N6Ps will all work fine in Valhalla._


  
*Me:*
  


> > > > _I've read people saying that you can't use 6N6P-I or 6N6P-IR variants in the Valhalla 2 for power tubes on Head-Fi.  Is this true?  I'm not going to sell all of my variants if they will all work fine._
> > > >
> > > > *Nick:*
> > > >
> > > > ...





> > > _So this is not correct?_
> > >
> > > _Just want to make sure._





> >


 






*Nick:*
  


> > _That is incorrect. We have measured the heater current on all variants, and it is the same, within production variance._
> >
> > *Me:*
> >
> > ...


  
 I just thought you guys should know what I was told.  I now plan on keeping all the 6N6P variants except one pair when I sell the Little Dot MK III.


----------



## rhgg2

Cool, thanks for that! What Nick told me, precisely, was to stay below a heater current of 750mA. I therefore ruled out 6N6P-I going off the datasheet:
http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/sheets/112/6/6N6PI.pdf
http://tubedata.milbert.com/sheets/113/6/6N6PI.pdf
  
 which says that 6N6P-I are 900mA +/- 50mA (whereas 6N6P are 750mA +/- 70mA). But if Nick says the 6N6P-I are okay, I will give it a go!


----------



## gug42

Hello,
  
 Any opinion about siemens e188C for this amp ?
  
 Thx


----------



## Hansolo76

So...these were the matched tubes that came with my new Valhalla 2 that I picked up on 4.1.2017 at Schitt's new retail store.  I emailed them about it when I got home and they said that all tubes ares electronically matched from large NOS inventories.
  
 Am I crazy thinking that matched tubes should also have identical makes, models, as well as physical builds?  Even if the tubes meter identically, won't they still have different sound signatures being different makes at least?  The pre tubes are even built differently inside from one another.
  
 Schiit has delivered me great service and products since the first time I ever reached out to them and I am ultimately happy with them.  These tubes don't even really matter to me since I had a matched pair of Novosibirsk 6N6P-IR waiting for the amp to arrive and three different sets of upgraded tubes for my Lyr 2 and another new pair of upgraded tubes for the Valhalla 2 on the way from Russia.
  
 I'm still a little bothered by fact that the pre tubes they sent me weren't even matching brands 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 At least the power tubes were the same brand.


----------



## Azurik

Can the taller 6n6p tubes be changed for something else or is there no replacement for them? 

I know the shorter 6n1p tubes are the main ones for rolling. Would a 6922 make much difference in sound??

Can I for example just get 4 of the same tubes like 4 6922?


----------



## D Smith

The 6N6P's are the output tubes (the taller ones).  They can not be changed. The 6N1P's are the input tubes and they can be swapped for 6922's and others.  And yes there can be a definite difference in sound, but it's not night and day in my experience. The Schiit website gives you the different tube types that work for the inputs.  I've had excellent luck with Amperex tubes, a definite improvement over the stock tubes. Check out the Valhalla Tube Rolling thread on this site.


----------



## worminater

I have an  OG Valhalla, been in happy and reasonably heavy use for the last 3 years or so (average use of 1-2 hours/day over that span; turned off when not in use, some 12 hour binges some weeks where I could barely find time to use).

Currently; when I turn the amp on disconnected from everything but power and headphones; volume all the way down - i get a fuzzy modulating fuzzy/static noise, more in the right earpiece than the left.  It's been intermittently doing it for awhile; but music/games/etc drowned it out (or it was intermittent).  Today it hit my tolerance.  After 3 years of fairly hard use (power flapping ff if not pure volume of hours...), are my Tubes finally toast or is this an issue with the amp itself?

I moved the amp to the other side of the house; as far away from electronics/wifi/etc as I could get, and same behavior from my HD650s and my DT770s. Volume of the amp doesn't seem to effect the static at all.


----------



## rhgg2 (May 8, 2017)

Probably the tubes. Try swapping the left two tubes with the right two (ie back left with back right and front left with front right). If the noise moves to the other channel then it's definitely the tubes. Just reseating the tubes like this might already fix it. If not, try taking them out and cleaning the pins by pushing them into a magic eraser sponge a few times. If this doesn't work, get a new set.


----------



## KoshNaranek (May 8, 2017)

worminater said:


> I have an  OG Valhalla, been in happy and reasonably heavy use for the last 3 years or so (average use of 1-2 hours/day over that span; turned off when not in use, some 12 hour binges some weeks where I could barely find time to use).
> 
> Currently; when I turn the amp on disconnected from everything but power and headphones; volume all the way down - i get a fuzzy modulating fuzzy/static noise, more in the right earpiece than the left.  It's been intermittently doing it for awhile; but music/games/etc drowned it out (or it was intermittent).  Today it hit my tolerance.  After 3 years of fairly hard use (power flapping ff if not pure volume of hours...), are my Tubes finally toast or is this an issue with the amp itself?
> 
> I moved the amp to the other side of the house; as far away from electronics/wifi/etc as I could get, and same behavior from my HD650s and my DT770s. Volume of the amp doesn't seem to effect the static at all.




Try taking out the front tubes, cleaning the pins and reseat them. See if that makes a difference 


PS Yay, I can finally post from my phone!


----------



## worminater

KoshNaranek said:


> Try taking out the front tubes, cleaning the pins and reseat them. See if that makes a difference
> 
> 
> PS Yay, I can finally post from my phone!



Good idea; hadn't considered.

Swapping the tubes left/right; still seems to keep right channel with the noise unfortunately...


----------



## KoshNaranek

worminater said:


> Good idea; hadn't considered.
> 
> Swapping the tubes left/right; still seems to keep right channel with the noise unfortunately...




Try the rear ones


----------



## worminater (May 8, 2017)

KoshNaranek said:


> Try the rear ones



Swapping the front and back(left rear with right rear, left front with right front); noise stays (primarily) on the right. Swapping just the back again; noise stays on the right channel. I'm not sure how it funnels through..


----------



## Currawong

My experience with tube rolling in the Valhalla 2 has been that changing the tubes has had the same effect as in the Vali 2. Pretty much similar results with the same tubes.


----------



## K1030

I'm considering buying a Valhalla 2 to use primarily with my Beyerdynamic DT770 250ohms. Has anyone had any experience with these cans or perhaps know of a tube combo that could help color in their recessed mids?


----------



## Tom Blake

Just picked up a used Valhalla 2 for use with a ZMF Atticus and have been looking into some tube rolling as the two products have a nice synergy. It is lacking some of the slam I hear from my iFi solid state amp though. Has anyone tried using the iFi Audio NOS 6922 linked below?

http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-nos-6922-2/

It's a GE5670 with adapter for 6922 sockets. I assume this works in the Val2? I also have the iCAN Pro amp so if I didn't like it in the Val2 could have them as backups for its stock tubes.


----------



## yangian

Tom Blake said:


> Just picked up a used Valhalla 2 for use with a ZMF Atticus and have been looking into some tube rolling as the two products have a nice synergy. It is lacking some of the slam I hear from my iFi solid state amp though. Has anyone tried using the iFi Audio NOS 6922 linked below?
> 
> http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-nos-6922-2/
> 
> It's a GE5670 with adapter for 6922 sockets. I assume this works in the Val2? I also have the iCAN Pro amp so if I didn't like it in the Val2 could have them as backups for its stock tubes.



Yes, I'm using this. Much better than the stock 6n1p tubes.


----------



## winders

Why not buy the 5670 to 6922 adapter and try some nice 5670 tubes instead of that, at best, mediocre GE5670 tube? For the same money, you could buy a nice pair of Western Electric 396A tubes that sound a whole lot better! Heck, for $30 from Brent Jesse, you buy some GE 5670WA 5-Star triple mica tubes that sound a lot better!


----------



## yangian

winders said:


> Why not buy the 5670 to 6922 adapter and try some nice 5670 tubes instead of that, at best, mediocre GE5670 tube? For the same money, you could buy a nice pair of Western Electric 396A tubes that sound a whole lot better! Heck, for $30 from Brent Jesse, you buy some GE 5670WA 5-Star triple mica tubes that sound a lot better!



I bought 5670 to 6922 tube from Taobao and use GE5670. Very cheap, only $4 each.


----------



## winders

yangian said:


> I bought 5670 to 6922 tube from Taobao and use GE5670. Very cheap, only $4 each.



Cheap is great if you also get great sound. You won't know what great is until you try some of the better 5670 tubes....


----------



## yangian

winders said:


> Cheap is great if you also get great sound. You won't know what great is until you try some of the better 5670 tubes....



I'll try sooner or later. But they are already much better than the stock tubes. What's your recommendation?


----------



## winders

Look at post #629....


----------



## yangian

winders said:


> Look at post #629....



I listen to symphonic works. I seldom listen to vocal. Are they good too?


----------



## winders

Yes!


----------



## yangian

Anyone knows May I use an adapter to use 6n5p for the 6n6p tubes? Thanks


----------



## KoshNaranek

yangian said:


> Anyone knows May I use an adapter to use 6n5p for the 6n6p tubes? Thanks



The 6n5p draws 2.4 amps and the 6n6p draws 0.75. Sounds like a recipe for disaster.


----------



## yangian

KoshNaranek said:


> The 6n5p draws 2.4 amps and the 6n6p draws 0.75. Sounds like a recipe for disaster.



Oh, really! I see!


----------



## Desdinova12

Recently bought a Valhalla and I'm looking for a warmer setup for the HD700 and potentially the HD800. Can anyone make a suggestion of what to use and where to get them?


----------



## ZenGentleman

Desdinova12 said:


> Recently bought a Valhalla and I'm looking for a warmer setup for the HD700 and potentially the HD800. Can anyone make a suggestion of what to use and where to get them?


I've been listening to my Valhalla 2 amp/Bifrost Multibit DAC/Wyrd USB Decrapifier setup with my Senn HD700 since I bought new in June of 2016. I spent the first 2 months with the stock 6N1P tubes that came with the Valhalla 2 and thought the HD700 married quite well with the tube headphone amp. That amazing imaging has spoiled me! I then got the itch to tube roll, so I picked up a pair of JJ ECC88's online from the Tube Store and was very happy with the improvement in sound, especially the mids and bottom end. Those were super-affordable and a good upgrade. I just recently bought some matched NOS (1959) MELZ vintage Russian Military 6N1P tubes from a guy in Bulgaria on Etsy ($30 plus shipping) and, although it is early, I am loving the subtle improvement in imaging, mids and bottom end through both my desktop AudioEngine A2+ speakers and my Sennheiser HD700. So, based on my system over the past 12 months, the JJ ECC88 tubes and the MELZ 6N1P tubes were both definite improvements for not a lot of money. That said, in my system, what made the biggest improvement was when, a month in, I added the $99 Schiit Wyrd USB Decrapifier. That had more of a positive impact than the tube rolling and I highly recommend one.


----------



## KoshNaranek

ZenGentleman said:


> I've been listening to my Valhalla 2 amp/Bifrost Multibit DAC/Wyrd USB Decrapifier setup with my Senn HD700 since I bought new in June of 2016. I spent the first 2 months with the stock 6N1P tubes that came with the Valhalla 2 and thought the HD700 married quite well with the tube headphone amp. That amazing imaging has spoiled me! I then got the itch to tube roll, so I picked up a pair of JJ ECC88's online from the Tube Store and was very happy with the improvement in sound, especially the mids and bottom end. Those were super-affordable and a good upgrade. I just recently bought some matched NOS (1959) MELZ vintage Russian Military 6N1P tubes from a guy in Bulgaria on Etsy ($30 plus shipping) and, although it is early, I am loving the subtle improvement in imaging, mids and bottom end through both my desktop AudioEngine A2+ speakers and my Sennheiser HD700. So, based on my system over the past 12 months, the JJ ECC88 tubes and the MELZ 6N1P tubes were both definite improvements for not a lot of money. That said, in my system, what made the biggest improvement was when, a month in, I added the $99 Schiit Wyrd USB Decrapifier. That had more of a positive impact than the tube rolling and I highly recommend one.




The JJ standard and Gold pins sound very different.  I would give the Gold pins a try if you have not aleady done so.


----------



## rnros

KoshNaranek said:


> The 6n5p draws 2.4 amps and the 6n6p draws 0.75. Sounds like a recipe for disaster.





yangian said:


> Anyone knows May I use an adapter to use 6n5p for the 6n6p tubes? Thanks



6N5P has heater current of 600mA, same as 6N1P. I would not use it as an output tube, it has half the output power of the 6N6P, 2.2W vs 4.8W, but as an input tube, replacement for 6N1P, yes, it's fine. No adapter required. I've used it in the Valhalla2 numerous times. Good tube, not great tube, depends what you're comparing it to.


----------



## ZenGentleman

KoshNaranek said:


> The JJ standard and Gold pins sound very different.  I would give the Gold pins a try if you have not aleady done so.


Sorry I wasn't more accurate. Indeed, the JJ Gold pins are what I was using before swapping them out for the NOS Russian MELZ 6N1P tubes.


----------



## KoshNaranek

rnros said:


> 6N5P has heater current of 600mA, same as 6N1P. I would not use it as an output tube, it has half the output power of the 6N6P, 2.2W vs 4.8W, but as an input tube, replacement for 6N1P, yes, it's fine. No adapter required. I've used it in the Valhalla2 numerous times. Good tube, not great tube, depends what you're comparing it to.




It would require an adapter. 

http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6n5p~2.html


----------



## rnros

KoshNaranek said:


> It would require an adapter.
> 
> http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6n5p~2.html



Ha, there you go. Sorry, had no idea the question was referring to a coke-bottle octal. Since question was about the Valhalla 2, just assumed the Russian noval that some of us have used. 
Thanks for clarification. Yes, on the heater, 2.4 A for this octal.
If any do come across the Russian noval of the sixties, it is compatible with the VALH2.

Here's a datasheet: http://russiantubes.com/prop.php?t=12&p=202


----------



## KoshNaranek

rnros said:


> Ha, there you go. Sorry, had no idea the question was referring to a coke-bottle octal. Since question was about the Valhalla 2, just assumed the Russian noval that some of us have used.
> Thanks for clarification. Yes, on the heater, 2.4 A for this octal.
> If any do come across the Russian noval of the sixties, it is compatible with the VALH2.
> 
> Here's a datasheet: http://russiantubes.com/prop.php?t=12&p=202




Actually,  I had no idea that this tube existed. The original question may have been about the nine pin tube.

Since I am old, I assumed it was about the octal power tube.


----------



## yangian

rnros said:


> 6N5P has heater current of 600mA, same as 6N1P. I would not use it as an output tube, it has half the output power of the 6N6P, 2.2W vs 4.8W, but as an input tube, replacement for 6N1P, yes, it's fine. No adapter required. I've used it in the Valhalla2 numerous times. Good tube, not great tube, depends what you're comparing it to.



Sorry, did you mean 6n5p can replace the 6n1p?! But the 6n5p is power tube and 6n1p is signal tube.


----------



## Mike Thompson

I hope this hasn't been asked before. Wondering if anyone is familiar with the Novosibirsk 6N6P tube and is it an improvement over the stock tube? 

http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/Russian-Tubes/Russian-6N6p-6H6pi

Thanks.


----------



## KoshNaranek

Mike Thompson said:


> I hope this hasn't been asked before. Wondering if anyone is familiar with the Novosibirsk 6N6P tube and is it an improvement over the stock tube?
> 
> http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/Russian-Tubes/Russian-6N6p-6H6pi
> 
> Thanks.



My original Tubes are Novosibirsk. They can be identified by a Pentagon symbol screened onto the tube. I am not even sure if anyone else even made the 6N6P


----------



## rnros (Jul 5, 2017)

FOTON also made the 6N6P, I was able to find '65s and '66s, it is more expensive, IRC ~$25.
FOTON logo is a rhombus, not to be confused with the OTK rhombus. There have been eBay sellers promoting 6N6Ps with the pentagon logo as FOTON.

This is what the FOTON version looks like:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-RAREST-...055141?hash=item2a6ec55f25:g:RdYAAOSwMtxXtJQv

Remember that the 6N6P-I has a higher heater current than the 6N6P, so double check the designation. The 6N6P-I may be within the capabilities Valhalla2 but you would have chech with Schiit.


----------



## rnros

yangian said:


> Sorry, did you mean 6n5p can replace the 6n1p?! But the 6n5p is power tube and 6n1p is signal tube.



We now know that the 6N5P designation is used for both an octal power tube and a noval signal tube.
The 6N5P noval signal tube has specs similar to the 6N1P and has been used in the Valhalla2.


----------



## yangian

rnros said:


> We now know that the 6N5P designation is used for both an octal power tube and a noval signal tube.
> The 6N5P noval signal tube has specs similar to the 6N1P and has been used in the Valhalla2.



That's really cool! Do you know what kind of adapter to use? An adapter is necessary. At least size is different.


----------



## rnros

yangian said:


> That's really cool! Do you know what kind of adapter to use? An adapter is necessary. At least size is different.



Still a bit of confusion on these two tubes. 

The 6N5P that has been used in the Valhalla2 is the Noval signal tube, same size and pinout as 6N1P. No adapter required.
Here is the the 6N5P I have used:



  

Late '50s to mid '60s triple mica box plate anode. This is a NEVZ tube. 
Again this is a good tube, a very good tube, depends on what you want or what you compare it to. I like it enough to have bought a few pairs. Reasonable price: ~$25 per tube.

Two eBay links (I have purchased from the first link):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-TESTED...id=100005&rk=2&rkt=6&mehot=lo&sd=171584577628

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Audio-Tube-...495040?hash=item3ae6d002c0:g:cj0AAOSwuLZY51vt


----------



## yangian

rnros said:


> Still a bit of confusion on these two tubes.
> 
> The 6N5P that has been used in the Valhalla2 is the Noval signal tube, same size and pinout as 6N1P. No adapter required.
> Here is the the 6N5P I have used:
> ...



Oh, no. I mean this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-NOS-Shug...727370?hash=item440392c88a:g:zOsAAOSw5cRZGQvF
It's actually equivalent to 6080, 6AS7 etc.

Sorry for the confusion! That's really confusing


----------



## rnros

Your question concerning that tube was already answered by KoshKaranek.


----------



## yangian

rnros said:


> Your question concerning that tube was already answered by KoshKaranek.



That's why I feel very confused at first. Anyway, now it's clear.


----------



## NBrock

Good evening,

Does anyone have opinions on Amperex  6922 from 1951 or New Genalex Gold Lion with gold pins? I am looking for some new tubes to try. I am also open to suggestions. 
I currently have a matched pair of the OTK 6n23p/E88CC  from the early 80s.
My setup goes PC>Bifrost 4490>Valhalla 2 with the OTK 6n23p> Beyerdynamic DT 1990 Pro
My music types are instrumental (piano and violin), classical, classic rock, rock, metal, edm, trap...

Thanks!


----------



## ZenGentleman (Jul 19, 2017)

NBrock said:


> Good evening,
> 
> Does anyone have opinions on Amperex  6922 from 1951 or New Genalex Gold Lion with gold pins? I am looking for some new tubes to try. I am also open to suggestions.
> I currently have a matched pair of the OTK 6n23p/E88CC  from the early 80s.
> ...


I have the Valhalla 2/Bifrost Multibit combo w/Senn HD 700. I’ve rolled a matched pair of late 1950s MELZ 6N1P tubes I got from a seller on Etsy for $50 and a matched pair of JJ ECC88 Gold Pins from The Tube Store for around $50. I thought both pairs were a good upgrade from the stock tubes. At this point, I’m preferring the JJ Gold pins between the two. However, the biggest improvement in sound was when I added the $99 Schiit Audio Wyrd USB Decrapifier into the mix. That said, Schiit just announced a USB GEN5 upgrade for all their DACs which, among other things, eliminates the need for the Wyrd, as the power to the DAC chip no longer comes from the USB output from the computer and there is new shielding for the power. To upgrade the DAC is only $150. I’ve already paid for my upgrade and I’m #22 in the queue for upgrade.


----------



## KoshNaranek

NBrock said:


> Good evening,
> 
> Does anyone have opinions on Amperex  6922 from 1951 or New Genalex Gold Lion with gold pins? I am looking for some new tubes to try. I am also open to suggestions.
> I currently have a matched pair of the OTK 6n23p/E88CC  from the early 80s.
> ...


I second the above regarding the JJ Gold pins. They are my favorite tube in the Valhalla 2. I tried the Gold lions in the Valhalla and found the frequency response to be bit uneven. This manifests itself as a change of pacing in complex passages, making them dissonant. The gold lions did much better in the Lyr2. I have no experience with vintage Amperex. The Valhalla 2 is a fussy amp when it comes to the input tubes, but it is sublime when setup to your satisfaction.

My Valhalla setup: HiFiBerry digi via coax to Bifrost Multibit to Valhalla 2 to HD800


----------



## NBrock

Thanks so much for the responses. I'll pick up some of the JJ ECC88 Gold pins since they aren't too much money and give them a go.

Thanks ZenGentleman for the info on the DAC upgrade. 

I do have one more question since you both use the Multibit Bifrost. Is it a big step up from the regular 4490 Bifrost?


----------



## KoshNaranek

NBrock said:


> Thanks so much for the responses. I'll pick up some of the JJ ECC88 Gold pins since they aren't too much money and give them a go.
> 
> Thanks ZenGentleman for the info on the DAC upgrade.
> 
> I do have one more question since you both use the Multibit Bifrost. Is it a big step up from the regular 4490 Bifrost?


I have not heard the 4490, but the multibit sounds like like no other DAC that I have heard. I like the Modi Multibit MUCH better than Modi Uber. There is no comparison. I hope that helps.


----------



## ZenGentleman

NBrock said:


> Thanks so much for the responses. I'll pick up some of the JJ ECC88 Gold pins since they aren't too much money and give them a go.
> 
> Thanks ZenGentleman for the info on the DAC upgrade.
> 
> I do have one more question since you both use the Multibit Bifrost. Is it a big step up from the regular 4490 Bifrost?


I love the sound of my Bifrost MB but I haven’t spent any time with the 4490 version of the DAC so I can’t give you a “versus” comparison. Honestly, my choice was made last June by simply reading up on the differences in implementation of multibit vs delta-sigma in DACs and I liked what I read about the supposed benefits of multibit.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

I'm thinking about upgrading my Bifrost to MB but am curious about the USB Gen 5 upgrade.  Does anybody have experience with that yet?  I haven't had any problems with mine so I'm wondering if the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." adage applies.


----------



## ZenGentleman

The USB GEN5 upgrade was literally JUST announced yesterday (7/19) and there is a queue for getting a unit upgraded. When I contacted Schiit they told me it would take 5 business days for the upgrade, plus shipping time. I was #22 in line yesterday and I’m #21 today, so progress is happening slowly. We probably won’t start seeing upgraded units back to owners until next week.

You should read the description of the upgrade at the Schiit website. It’s not about “fixing something that was broken,” it’s about improved performance. I know how much adding a Schiit Wyrd USB Decrapifier improved the sound of my Bifrost Multibit and now, with this new USB upgrade, it eliminates the need for a Wyrd, as the DAC chip now gets its power from the unit and not the USB output from your computer. That, and other power supply improvements, should have a noticeable impact on the DAC’s performance. I’m anxious to send mine in.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

Anxious to hear reports as they come available.  I'm definitely not of the sort to spend hundreds of $ on things such as "audiophile power cords" and their ilk so I'll wait to hear what people say before joining the queue.


----------



## Mike Thompson

GumbyDammit223 said:


> Anxious to hear reports as they come available.  I'm definitely not of the sort to spend hundreds of $ on things such as "audiophile power cords" and their ilk so I'll wait to hear what people say before joining the queue.


I'm feeling the same way. I'm very happy with everything I have bought from Schiit but am a bit sceptical about hearing any sonic benefits with this upgrade.


----------



## adydula

I just sent my new Bifrost back in an exchange program...I was pleasantly surprised that when I asked if there was a installation kit for the Gen 5 USB that there was none at the time but I qualified for an exchange seeing how I just bought my Bifrost recently.

So its on its way back to Schiit in exchange.

Anyone know how the gen 5 shows up in Windows ? USB 5 ?

Alex


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

Power tubes!?
I think over the last 3 weeks I have been through all 45 pages of this thread and have not really seen much talk about the power tubes.

6N6P.
1. Do they need to be matched? Schiit supposedly matches them. 
2. Why are they so effing hard to find? I have searched google left and and right and can only find 3 sources. Schiit, tubestore.com (for 60$ for a matched set!!!!), and Ebay. 
3. If I buy off ebay what is gold gird? Platinum matched? Etc. etc. All these guys have 100% positive feedback scores, but you can't trust something that just says "matched". Even if they say they used the LG-1 bla bla to 1% match. You just take their word. but they have the same rating that the Latvian guy does selling the same tubes for half the price. 

I guess thats all for now. I need some power tube replacements... and no idea if I should bother with match pairs or who the hell to buy them from. 

(BTW what do you think of this listing for the whole Valhalla set, cheaper than Schiit) ?


----------



## trpas

Dear head-fiers,
after all this 45 pages I'm little lost...
Could you advise best tubes for valhalla 2 and Sennheiser HD 650?
Best means: ‘3D picture’; more space, deeper stage… but not to any lose details
I was thinking of telefunken’s e88cc, but someone write there was no significantly improvement in sound...
I have Russian NOS tubes that comes with vall2….
Thanks


----------



## KoshNaranek

trpas said:


> Dear head-fiers,
> after all this 45 pages I'm little lost...
> Could you advise best tubes for valhalla 2 and Sennheiser HD 650?
> Best means: ‘3D picture’; more space, deeper stage… but not to any lose details
> ...



I use Valhalla with HD800 and have tried quite a few tubes. To my ear, Telefunken sound similar to JJ standard pins. My favorite tubes are JJ gold pins, more body and overall more pleasing.

You could try both of them and if your ear likes standard pins over gold, you could then progress to Telefunken or Mullard.


----------



## ZenGentleman (Aug 3, 2017)

trpas said:


> Dear head-fiers,
> after all this 45 pages I'm little lost...
> Could you advise best tubes for valhalla 2 and Sennheiser HD 650?
> Best means: ‘3D picture’; more space, deeper stage… but not to any lose details
> ...


JJ E88CC Gold is a great "bang for your buck" tube to get the best sound out of the Valhalla 2 with Sennheisers in my experience over the past 14 months.


----------



## trpas

Thanks guys, I will try those, price is very reasonable... telefunkens are 400-500 USD on ebay for ‘matched’ pair...

I’m very curious (regarding all positive comments here) about ’75 voskhod 6n23p also; price is ‘round 100 USD on ebay …

Did you hear ’75 voskhod on your systems? Can you tell me difference between JJ’s and ’75 HG?

What’s bothering me (I have HD 650; pretty warm, thick sound+ MARANTZ SA player - also very ‘warm’ sound) is: will get some clarity and space, more details with those tubes.

When I played ‘easy’ jazz on this system (with stock Russian tubes) sound is very pleasant, but when I put some classical music- all ‘picture’ become very blurred, ‘heavy’…

Or should I just buy HD800 for classical and more dynamic music?


----------



## KoshNaranek

trpas said:


> Thanks guys, I will try those, price is very reasonable... telefunkens are 400-500 USD on ebay for ‘matched’ pair...
> 
> I’m very curious (regarding all positive comments here) about ’75 voskhod 6n23p also; price is ‘round 100 USD on ebay …
> 
> ...




Try the tubes first. I found no corelation between cost and what I like. Do try both JJs, based upon your impression of both of them, I can steer you further.


----------



## yangian

trpas said:


> Thanks guys, I will try those, price is very reasonable... telefunkens are 400-500 USD on ebay for ‘matched’ pair...
> 
> I’m very curious (regarding all positive comments here) about ’75 voskhod 6n23p also; price is ‘round 100 USD on ebay …
> 
> ...



I remember someone shared before that no need to spend more than $60 on tubes. Forgot 1 tube or a pair. Anyway, I saw not a couple people were disappointed on some expensive tubes.
Now I'm using some very cheap 6N3PEs with adapters. I like them. I think it's better than 5670 on V2, though on my another amplifier with stock 6n3p/5670 tubes, 5670 is much better than 6n3pe.
You may try some 6n3p-class tubes since it's much cheaper than 6922-class tubes.


----------



## KoshNaranek

yangian said:


> I remember someone shared before that no need to spend more than $60 on tubes. Forgot 1 tube or a pair




It was I.


----------



## trpas

I will try JJ's and HG '75.
found some TESLA PCC's and E88CC also...


----------



## yangian

KoshNaranek said:


> It was I.


Haha, thank you very much!


----------



## rnros (Aug 4, 2017)

trpas said:


> Thanks guys, I will try those, price is very reasonable... telefunkens are 400-500 USD on ebay for ‘matched’ pair...
> 
> I’m very curious (regarding all positive comments here) about ’75 voskhod 6n23p also; price is ‘round 100 USD on ebay …
> 
> ...



Agree with those that have said you don't need to spend a lot of money for tubes that give high level performance. And note, all of these comments are IMHO/YMMV.
Can't help with the JJ's, I have some of the other current production but none that I would recommend before the NOS options. Don't know what your reference to the '75 HG is, if it is the '75 Voskhod 6N23P then I would say it's a good tube not a great tube.

TL;DR version: The Reflector 6N3P-E is an excellent high quality/low cost choice.

The Telefunken you mention, assuming you are referring to the E88CC, is one of the very good tubes, certainly one that would put you into high level SQ. Nice tube to have in your collection as a benchmark comparison, but you can do better for less. They can be found for less than $400 on eBay but you do take your chances. Unless it's Langrex (UK), they have an eBay store. They are one of the reliable, high quality sources for the Tele E88CC. About a year ago you would have paid over $300, still a good price for the quality, but at the moment they have them listed at 190GBP or $248 USD. They show only 1 pair available, but their stock list actually shows more than that, may be that the offer page refers to already matched sets. Compare this with the Upscale price at $418 for top grade.

However, back to best sound at best price. For me this would be the Reflector 6N3P-E (adapter required). I have heard these from the years '74 through '88, and they are consistent in SQ, although the '80s are easier to find. I prefer these above every small format 9 pin tube I have purchased and compared. Comparisons include several $$$K worth of the usual top tier Euro/USA from the '60s.
These use the same adapter as the 396A and 5670, both very good tubes but not at the level of the REFL 6N3P-E. Cost is the most reasonable you will find for tubes, matched pairs for ~$20, singles at just a few dollars in small batches of 4 or 8. Do not take this ridiculous low price as a measure of quality, they have been ignored and are still selling at surplus levels.

If this tube interests you and you want additional information and/or sound comparisons, you can search my post history. I started experimenting with these tubes in early 2016 and did post in several different threads. I discovered these while I was doing an extensive comparison of the REFL 6N23PS, which would be my second favorite tube.

The Reflector 6N23P is a great tube, but not quite up to the SQ of the REFL 6N3P-E. The REFL 6N23P has a slightly increased mid bass which may be favored in a headphone like the HD800, or not so favored in something like the HD650, although it does also have very good sub bass. The extra dimension at the low end, while maintaining good performance through the rest of the range, is the reason that this tube, for me, surpasses tubes like the Telefunken E88CC and others in that high cost library. There was considerable interest in these in recent years, especially the '74 and '75. My exploration of the years '68 through '73 easily matched the expensive '74s and '75s I had purchased. Easiest years to find are the early '70s at ~$50 for a matched pair. Note: my sample set on these tubes was considerable, not just a few pairs.

Quick note: my early impression was that if you took the best quality of the Telefunken E88CC and the Reflector 6N23P and combined them, that would be a good starting description of the Reflector 6N3P-E. Remember to SPL match if you do comparisons, the 6N3P-E require just a slight bit more power, about an 1/8" to 1/4" turn on the volume.

BTW, this would be on the Valhalla but also the Mjolnir2, Lyr1/2, and Vali2. For a DAC I'm using the GungnirMB.

A few other points on moving toward the goal of best clarity and 3D experience in complex orchestral passages: At some point you will need to go beyond the HD650. Of course, the HD800/s is a great choice, in a lower price range you can consider the Aeon ($799). You will also want to consider the DAC built into your Marantz. The power tube design for the Valhalla doesn't offer much in the way of tube rolling for the power tubes, but there is the FOTON from the '60s that you can consider at ~$40 a pair. Then there is the amp, if want to move up from there, one easy choice would be the MJ2, or for all-tube options you could look at the larger and more expensive offerings.

Again IMHO. Hope it was helpful. Enjoy!


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

Power tubes fellas. What do you do about the power tubes?


----------



## KoshNaranek

gr34td3str0y3r said:


> Power tubes fellas. What do you do about the power tubes?



Nothing. You just buy the tube set from Schiit, then you try to figure out what to do with the preamp tubes that were included free.

They sound great in my Lyr1


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

$40+$10 shipping for 5$ worth of tubes. No thank you. 

I don't need input tubes, so no need to buy a 4x set from Schiit. I emailed them if they would just sell power tubes and its been 10 days. They never got back to me. I take that as a no. 

I am just curious what you guys think about power tube matching? Like I said in an earlier post Schiit supposedly matches ALL the tubes they provide, but from what I understand only some amps required matched power tubes.

Besides is matching just snake oil anyway?


----------



## yangian

gr34td3str0y3r said:


> $40+$10 shipping for 5$ worth of tubes. No thank you.
> 
> I don't need input tubes, so no need to buy a 4x set from Schiit. I emailed them if they would just sell power tubes and its been 10 days. They never got back to me. I take that as a no.
> 
> ...



I cannot hear difference from a matched pair and an unmatched pair.


----------



## KoshNaranek

gr34td3str0y3r said:


> $40+$10 shipping for 5$ worth of tubes. No thank you.
> 
> I don't need input tubes, so no need to buy a 4x set from Schiit. I emailed them if they would just sell power tubes and its been 10 days. They never got back to me. I take that as a no.
> 
> ...




Triodes that are within 20% of each other are considered matched. This does not seem very close to me. I have not heard any difference between matched and random tubes from same seller either.

If you can get the power tubes for less from a reputable seller, please share! I found $34 for a matched pair and figured I could take the preamp tubes for the extra $4


----------



## r2muchstuff

Is this discussion about matched triodes within each tube or matching between tubes?

Some amps may need matched triodes while others may need matched tubes and some both.
Amp design may also make matching less important.

What about the Valhalla 2?
I am sure I read about it somewhere, I seem to remember that tubes should be a reasonable match with each other, otherwise channel imbalance could result.

It is easy to hear when a triode is weak/bad within the one tube of a Vali 2.

r2


----------



## KoshNaranek (Aug 5, 2017)

r2muchstuff said:


> Is this discussion about matched triodes within each tube or matching between tubes?
> 
> Some amps may need matched triodes while others may need matched tubes and some both.
> Amp design may also make matching less important.
> ...



My understanding is that every triode in Valhalla has to be within 20% of each other or they are mismatched. There are 4 preamp triodes and 4 power triodes. Obviously the preamp and power triodes cannot mesdure the same.


----------



## r2muchstuff (Aug 5, 2017)

Yes, pre amp tube to preamp tube and power tube to power tube.

Some made up numbers:

Tube 1
Triode 1 = 20, Triode 2 = 24
Tube 2
Should be within 20% of Tube 1 thus Triode 1 16 to 24 and Triode 2 at 19 to 29? Or should all Triodes be within the 16 to 24 range?

Does it matter if Tube 2 is Triode 1 = 24 and Triode 2 = 20?  In the Valhalla 2 are both Triodes within a tube summed or do they work independently?

r2


----------



## KoshNaranek

r2muchstuff said:


> Yes, pre amp tube to preamp tube and power tube to power tube.
> 
> Some made up numbers:
> 
> ...



My interpretation would be all triodes should be from 20 to 24. Everyone is free to disagree with me.


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

I live in Japan and oddly enough Amazon Japan had some. only 1400 yen for a pair. 
That is the cheapest I have seen anywhere. They don't say matched though. Amazon Japan does sell a surprisling large number of tubes and they do indeed sell "matched" pairs on there. But like I said... we have no idea what matched means. And even if a person puts 5% or 1% we just have to take their word for it, and agian I have only seen ONE website say they match the triodes AND paired tubes. http://www.thetubestore.com/
They are also one of the FEW places I seen carry the 6N6P, but for 18$ each, plus 5$ matching charge, then 5$ PER tube to match a pair, plus about 9$ shipping is their cheapest option, $61 for matched triodes and matched pair.

Ebay has TONS. Tons and tons. All around 20-30$ on average going up to 100$ for the "famous Foton factory". Which I Really don't think means sqauit for 6n6p power tubes. Example 25$ set. 

What does Gold grid mean. I see a lot of sellers mention that.

I just find it strange there is so little talk about the 6N6P tubes here, when people are talking about spending 300 or even 600$ for the input tubes. Like.... if a 61$ matched pair of 6N6P improved sound a few percentage points... It seems that it would be worth it to those of you willing to fork out more than 100$ for input tubes.


----------



## Valve36

My Valhalla2 arrived here today. I'm happier than a pig in Schiit. Unbelievable sound for $349.00. I've already rolled in some Reflektor NOS tubes that came out of my preamp  Let the tube rolling begin.  But honestly, its all about the music isn't it.


----------



## Zachik

Not sure if that is the right thread for my question, so apologies if not.
I am looking into buying a Valhalla 2 amp, and most of my amps are plannars or low impedance (sub-80 ohms. most around 30-40).
I understand the Valhalla 2 is good for those, but coming from SS amp - I am looking for a "tubey" sound (most reviewers keep claiming the Valhalla 2 does not have "tubey" sound).
Any recommendations for tubes to give it a "dreamy" / "euphoric" / "tubey" sound?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Anavel0

Zachik said:


> Not sure if that is the right thread for my question, so apologies if not.
> I am looking into buying a Valhalla 2 amp, and most of my amps are plannars or low impedance (sub-80 ohms. most around 30-40).
> I understand the Valhalla 2 is good for those, but coming from SS amp - I am looking for a "tubey" sound (most reviewers keep claiming the Valhalla 2 does not have "tubey" sound).
> Any recommendations for tubes to give it a "dreamy" / "euphoric" / "tubey" sound?
> ...


Do you mean most of your headphones are plannar magnetic? If so, yes Valhalla 2 can drive them better than other OTL tube amps but it wouldn't be my first choice. It's primary goal is driving HIGH impedance headphones, everything above 100 ohms or more. 

Also, every tubey, dreamy, or euphonic sounding tube amp I've ever used really just equated to lack luster amp design. And not really anything special that the tubes were doing. 

I guess we could try and find some tubes with really rolled off treble and bass.


----------



## Zachik

Anavel0 said:


> Do you mean most of your headphones are plannar magnetic? If so, yes Valhalla 2 can drive them better than other OTL tube amps but it wouldn't be my first choice. It's primary goal is driving HIGH impedance headphones, everything above 100 ohms or more.
> 
> Also, every tubey, dreamy, or euphonic sounding tube amp I've ever used really just equated to lack luster amp design. And not really anything special that the tubes were doing.
> 
> I guess we could try and find some tubes with really rolled off treble and bass.



Thanks for the very quick response.
Yes, most of my headphones are either plannar magnetic, or low impedance. I think my only high impedance headphone I own is the HD600.
I know OTL is not ideal for my collection, but I already got a SS amp (Schiit Jot) and want to try (for the first time) tube amp. And that is the reason I want it to sound different from my SS amp (plan to keep both).

So... do you think I could get Vali2 with the "proper" tubes to make it sound very different from the Jot?


----------



## yangian

Zachik said:


> Thanks for the very quick response.
> Yes, most of my headphones are either plannar magnetic, or low impedance. I think my only high impedance headphone I own is the HD600.
> I know OTL is not ideal for my collection, but I already got a SS amp (Schiit Jot) and want to try (for the first time) tube amp. And that is the reason I want it to sound different from my SS amp (plan to keep both).
> 
> So... do you think I could get Vali2 with the "proper" tubes to make it sound very different from the Jot?



Yes, if your phones are mainly low impedance, you'd better try a hybrid amp. or tube amplifier with output transformers. OTL is your last choice.
For a budgeted pure tube amplifier, sth. like this you could try:
https://www.amazon.com/Gemtune-APPJ-PA1502A-headphone-amplifier/dp/B00X5EB7QY
For hybrid, there are much more choices than OTL, like Vali, Garage 1217 or this new product:
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-alex-cavalli-cth-tube-hybrid-amp

If you really like HD600, you can reserve Valhalla 2 to HD600.


----------



## Zachik

yangian said:


> Yes, if your phones are mainly low impedance, you'd better try a hybrid amp. or tube amplifier with output transformers. OTL is your last choice.
> For a budgeted pure tube amplifier, sth. like this you could try:
> https://www.amazon.com/Gemtune-APPJ-PA1502A-headphone-amplifier/dp/B00X5EB7QY
> For hybrid, there are much more choices than OTL, like Vali, Garage 1217 or this new product:
> ...



Thanks for the advice. I did already get on the CTH drop 
I have never heard of the APPJ - will read on Head-Fi.  What about Little Dot Mk3? It has quite the following, it seems, and huge amount of knowledge and info on tube rolling, etc. Do you think it would work well with plannar magnetic and low impedance headphones?


----------



## yangian

Zachik said:


> Thanks for the advice. I did already get on the CTH drop
> I have never heard of the APPJ - will read on Head-Fi.  What about Little Dot Mk3? It has quite the following, it seems, and huge amount of knowledge and info on tube rolling, etc. Do you think it would work well with plannar magnetic and low impedance headphones?



No, LD is also an OTL. It's for high impedance. I don't think there is an OTL for low impedance better than Valhalla 2. And I'm quite sure Vah. 2 is better than LD MK3.
BTW, for low Z, why not consider Lyr 2? I would suggest you hold the CTH drop. It'll appear on massdrop sooner or later. You'd better wait more reviews. I've saw someone compared it with Vali 2 and I got an impression that it's just on par with Vali 2. If it is, maybe you'd better consider Lyr 2. Good luck


----------



## Anavel0

For your headphone collection I'd definitely consider Lyr 2. It'll still give you 660mW for the HD 600 and 4W for the majority of plannars. Valhalla 2 does 800mW for HD 600 and only 180mW for the majority of plannars. Vali 2 could be a really good option if you want to keep cost down and still want to try some tube rolling.


----------



## Zachik

yangian said:


> No, LD is also an OTL. It's for high impedance. I don't think there is an OTL for low impedance better than Valhalla 2. And I'm quite sure Vah. 2 is better than LD MK3.
> BTW, for low Z, why not consider Lyr 2? I would suggest you hold the CTH drop. It'll appear on massdrop sooner or later. You'd better wait more reviews. I've saw someone compared it with Vali 2 and I got an impression that it's just on par with Vali 2. If it is, maybe you'd better consider Lyr 2. Good luck





Anavel0 said:


> For your headphone collection I'd definitely consider Lyr 2. It'll still give you 660mW for the HD 600 and 4W for the majority of plannars. Valhalla 2 does 800mW for HD 600 and only 180mW for the majority of plannars. Vali 2 could be a really good option if you want to keep cost down and still want to try some tube rolling.



Thanks guys. Got some more reading to do.....


----------



## Zachik

After some more reading, the Valhalla 2 seems like the best (only ?) OTL option for low Z and planar headphones.
ANY experience here with planars or low impedance headphones???
I have the opportunity for a heavily discounted Valhalla 2, and got to make a decision FAST...

Quick recap: I already got the Schiit Jot, and just want an additional amp for my low Z and planars that sound DIFFERENT from the Jot.  Is that a decent choice?

Thanks in advance for ANY quick response


----------



## yangian

Zachik said:


> After some more reading, the Valhalla 2 seems like the best (only ?) OTL option for low Z and planar headphones.
> ANY experience here with planars or low impedance headphones???
> I have the opportunity for a heavily discounted Valhalla 2, and got to make a decision FAST...
> 
> ...



If it's a big deal, just get it and try. At least it's great for HD600. If you don't like it, sell it and you may even earn if you got it really cheap.


----------



## notfitforpublic

Zachik said:


> After some more reading, the Valhalla 2 seems like the best (only ?) OTL option for low Z and planar headphones.
> ANY experience here with planars or low impedance headphones???
> I have the opportunity for a heavily discounted Valhalla 2, and got to make a decision FAST...
> 
> ...



No, the Valhalla is not fantastic for low impedance OR planar magnetic cans. Your Jot is going to be a far better option, by miles in fact. The Valhalla sounds bad with my EL-8's, My Final Sonorous III, 400i's when I had them, and almost all IEM's I've tried with them. Common issues is a high noise floor, bloated bass, and smeared detail overall. It's an OTL amp, these things are not surprising with low impedance cans that generally want more current swing in opposed to the voltage swing the Valhalla 2 provides. It will however do a brilliant job with your HD600's, and you might find it does a far better job than your Jot.

*If your looking to use the Valhalla to drive all of your cans, you're wasting your money IMO*. You already have a better amp for the job. Now... there is nothing wrong with having TWO amps. I own a Valhalla 2 to drive my HD600 and T1's and it does a fantastic job of doing so. Better than the rHead solid state amp I have to drive IEM's and my EL-8's. If the price on the Valhalla 2 is stupid low, its a no brainer. Why not buy it for your 600's.


----------



## trpas (Aug 22, 2017)

z


----------



## trpas (Aug 22, 2017)

rnros said:


> Agree with those that have said you don't need to spend a lot of money for tubes that give high level performance. And note, all of these comments are IMHO/YMMV.
> Can't help with the JJ's, I have some of the other current production but none that I would recommend before the NOS options. Don't know what your reference to the '75 HG is, if it is the '75 Voskhod 6N23P then I would say it's a good tube not a great tube.
> 
> TL;DR version: The Reflector 6N3P-E is an excellent high quality/low cost choice.
> ...




Thanks, all clear now... Sometimes I can't see the forest for the trees 

I have a few tube rolling on my previous amps, found that telefunkens (among other things) expand sound; on some amps they sound kind of thin, but on others sound just perfect...

Every system have his own sound, and tube rolling is perfect for final adjustment of system, IMHO. But, same tubes doesn’t sound same on different amps/ systems. In my hi-fi journey I find out that low price tubes can sound much better than any high regard/ priced tubes. Regarding high prices of Siemens, Telefunkens and others it will be insane to buy all those tubes for comparison. It’s better to follow this thread and chose few ‘best buys’ tubes 

I have some ‘upgrades’ on my Vallhalla:  plug DIY helix power cord (kind a copy of shunyata python), replace fuse with AMR fuse (get some clarity, fluid, and texture), so final thing is tube rolling.

I put siemens e88cc and TESLA PCC188 yesterday, have few hours of listening… both much better than stock tubes, each have own sound characteristic; each one have pluses and minuses, as all tubes have. TESLA is better for my ears. Also order Reflector 6N3P-Es from EBAY with adaptors, waiting on my friend to bring me TELEFUNKENS ECC88…
And here we go again- in a next quest for the holy grail, Oohrah !!!!
(sorry on my bad English)


----------



## yangian

trpas said:


> Thanks, all clear now... Sometimes I can't see the forest for the trees
> 
> I have a few tube rolling on my previous amps, found that telefunkens (among other things) expand sound; on some amps they sound kind of thin, but on others sound just perfect...
> 
> ...



Exactly. 6n3pE is not as good as 567 on my another tube amplifier with 6n3p/5670 as stock tubes. But it really shines on Valhalla


----------



## rnros

trpas said:


> Thanks, all clear now... Sometimes I can't see the forest for the trees
> 
> I have a few tube rolling on my previous amps, found that telefunkens (among other things) expand sound; on some amps they sound kind of thin, but on others sound just perfect...
> 
> ...



Thank you for the recommendation on the AMR fuse, I'll give those a try. Still waiting for the 'extra time' to make some upgrade DIY power cords, LOL. Have the materials waiting for me, I suspect the materials will keep waiting for a while yet. Someday.  : )

Hope you enjoy the Reflector 6N3P-Es, and yes, those are the correct ones. There at least 5 different versions and they all have different construction, add to that, different brands.
The Reflector 6N3P-Es are constructed like a fine Swiss watch compared to the the 6922/E88CC family, take a close look when you get them. Recently, there was some discussion about the 2C51 (5670/396A/6N3P) group in the Schiit Lyr Tube Rollers thread. I noted some of the enhanced construction/design details similar to the Bendix 6385 Triple Mica here:
https://head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-889#post-13669539

I have no comments on the Telefunken ECC88s, I only have the E88CCs and the PCC88s, both of those are very good.


----------



## trpas

Audiophile fuses bring remarkable change of sound, I was also try synergistic research red, black, xindak silver on Vallhalla 2 and found AMR is best for my ears.
Be very careful when you open amp; you have to unscrew little screw on volume button before final opening.

Can't wait to receive Reflectors 6N3P-E , Christmas will be earlier this year for me


----------



## rnros (Aug 24, 2017)

@trpas 
Thank you for the additional guidance. I appreciate that!  : )


----------



## litwick87 (Aug 24, 2017)

Zachik said:


> Thanks for the very quick response.
> Yes, most of my headphones are either plannar magnetic, or low impedance. I think my only high impedance headphone I own is the HD600.
> I know OTL is not ideal for my collection, but I already got a SS amp (Schiit Jot) and want to try (for the first time) tube amp. And that is the reason I want it to sound different from my SS amp (plan to keep both).
> 
> So... do you think I could get Vali2 with the "proper" tubes to make it sound very different from the Jot?


I recently got a Jot w/Dac and HD650, I also got in on the MassDrop Hifiman 4xx for my first planars.... was thinking about the Valhalla 2 down the line also. Let me know how you like it all if you go down a similar path.


----------



## Zachik

litwick87 said:


> I recently got a Jot w/Dac and HD650, I also got in on the MassDrop Hifiman 4xx for my first planars.... was thinking about the Valhalla 2 down the line also. Let me know how you like it all if you go down a similar path.



I have joined the MassDrop CTH instead, so ditched the Valhalla 2 path


----------



## Wes S

Zachik said:


> Not sure if that is the right thread for my question, so apologies if not.
> I am looking into buying a Valhalla 2 amp, and most of my amps are plannars or low impedance (sub-80 ohms. most around 30-40).
> I understand the Valhalla 2 is good for those, but coming from SS amp - I am looking for a "tubey" sound (most reviewers keep claiming the Valhalla 2 does not have "tubey" sound).
> Any recommendations for tubes to give it a "dreamy" / "euphoric" / "tubey" sound?
> ...




Amperex 7308 gold pins.


----------



## Mr.Tom

*The Valhalla is not tubey sounding at all. I found the lyr 2 to have more of a tube sound. if your on a budget, try a VALI 2. Also, the Valhalla is not good for low impedance loads.*




Zachik said:


> Not sure if that is the right thread for my question, so apologies if not.
> I am looking into buying a Valhalla 2 amp, and most of my amps are plannars or low impedance (sub-80 ohms. most around 30-40).
> I understand the Valhalla 2 is good for those, but coming from SS amp - I am looking for a "tubey" sound (most reviewers keep claiming the Valhalla 2 does not have "tubey" sound).
> Any recommendations for tubes to give it a "dreamy" / "euphoric" / "tubey" sound?
> ...


----------



## litwick87

Welp just ordered one of these to go with my Jot w/Dac.


----------



## purehifi192

Has anyone here used Schiit's LISST tubes in Valhalla's inout stage?  What's the experience been like?


----------



## GumbyDammit223

I don't think they're compatible with the Valhalla design.


----------



## purehifi192

GumbyDammit223 said:


> I don't think they're compatible with the Valhalla design.



The Valhalla 2 uses the same tube type as the Mjolnir.  Was hoping the LISST would work in the Valhalla as it does in the Mjolnir.  Wonder why it wouldn't be compatible.


----------



## KoshNaranek (Sep 25, 2017)

purehifi192 said:


> The Valhalla 2 uses the same tube type as the Mjolnir.  Was hoping the LISST would work in the Valhalla as it does in the Mjolnir.  Wonder why it wouldn't be compatible.


They are compatible. It is just pointless. They don't lower the noise floor. Transient speed is less and high output impedance is left in place.

In short, all the downside of tube amps remain and you gain all the downsides of transistor.

PS: The reason why hybrid amps use preamp tubes and out transistors is to gain tube speed and linearity and get rid of output impedance fussiness. What you propose is the opposite topology. Transistor preamps stage and tube output stage.


----------



## purehifi192

KoshNaranek said:


> They are compatible. It is just pointless. They don't lower the noise floor. Transient speed is less and high output impedance is left in place.
> 
> In short, all the downside of tube amps remain and you gain all the downsides of transistor.
> 
> PS: The reason why hybrid amps use preamp tubes and out transistors is to gain tube speed and linearity and get rid of output impedance fussiness. What you propose is the opposite topology. Transistor preamps stage and tube output stage.



Ah.  That would make sense.  Thank you.


----------



## Marlowe

I just got a Valhalla 2, which I like very much so far. (Though my enjoyment was delayed a few days when one of the stock input tubes blew out after 90 minutes, the black tip turning absolutely clear. I told Schiit on a Friday afternoon and on Saturday they mailed me a complete new set of four tubes.) I've read over and over that there is really not much point in rolling the power tubes. And I don't intend to (though I did pick up a pair of moderately priced JJ E88CC input tubes). However, the Valhalla 2 manual states that the power tubes can be replaced with " 6H30Ns, but that’s about it." I happen to have a fairly new, but burned in, pair of Electro Harmonix 6H30PIs in my old Little Dot. MK III. Anyone know if these compatible with the Valhalla 2?


----------



## Mr.Tom

It won't damage anything if you want to try it. Same pin out. Read this page if you want to learn more about the tube.

http://www.lampizator.eu/UPGRADE/upgrade noval tubes to 6H6P.html


----------



## Marlowe

Mr.Tom said:


> It won't damage anything if you want to try it. Same pin out. Read this page if you want to learn more about the tube.



Thanks for the help. I've asked Schiit the same question and will update when they respond.


----------



## Marlowe

Schiit's response was basically noncommittal: they couldn't recommend any tube not specifically listed as compatible and use of the 6H30PIs would be at my own risk. At any rate, I tried them and they seemed to work fine. My ears are not nearly as educated as many here, but I heard no improvement in sound quality (which I did when I used them in the Little Dot), maybe even a little worse in soundstage and separation. What did concern me a bit was how hot the Valhalla 2 got after several hours. After I put socket savers in (almost entirely for aesthetic reasons; I think the amp looks nicer with the tubes sitting up higher) I noticed the Valhalla 2 ran noticeably cooler--quite warm but not borderline hot as it did without the socket savers. With the 6H30PIs in, the amp ran pretty hot again over several hours (though always touchable). Since I didn't hear any sound upgrade, I just went back to the stock power tubes (and the Valhalla 2 runs cooler again).


----------



## KoshNaranek

Marlowe said:


> Schiit's response was basically noncommittal: they couldn't recommend any tube not specifically listed as compatible and use of the 6H30PIs would be at my own risk. At any rate, I tried them and they seemed to work fine. My ears are not nearly as educated as many here, but I heard no improvement in sound quality (which I did when I used them in the Little Dot), maybe even a little worse in soundstage and separation. What did concern me a bit was how hot the Valhalla 2 got after several hours. After I put socket savers in (almost entirely for aesthetic reasons; I think the amp looks nicer with the tubes sitting up higher) I noticed the Valhalla 2 ran noticeably cooler--quite warm but not borderline hot as it did without the socket savers. With the 6H30PIs in, the amp ran pretty hot again over several hours (though always touchable). Since I didn't hear any sound upgrade, I just went back to the stock power tubes (and the Valhalla 2 runs cooler again).



Thank you for the update


----------



## RMarks271

Hi all,

Long-time reader of this forum, very occasional poster.

I have a question regarding the Valhalla 2 and tube risers / socket savers. I apologise if it's been covered in the previous 49 pages, but I have been searching for weeks without locating an answer.

I am about to buy the Valhalla 2 and am looking for some tube risers, a) for aesthetic reasons and b) to keep it cooler if possible - and I believe this does have an effect.

1) I'm in the UK. Where (besides eBay) can you buy the type of socket savers that are compatible with the Valhalla 2?

2) Being a total novice at tubes, I honestly don't know... I understand the Valhalla has 9-pin tubes, and therefore needs 9-pin socket savers, but will any socket saver do, or do they need to be certain ones that are compatible? Is any socket saver just as good as another, or like certain electronic components do you need to find the right risers for the right amp? if so, can you suggest any?

Thanks is advance for any help.


----------



## h2rulz (Oct 25, 2017)

@RMarks271
I've bought a random socket saver off of eBay (did have good seller ratings) and did notice some sonic changes - returned them immediately and didn't care to get another.
If anything, from my short experience with socket savers, is probably get the socket savers that are proven to be good, perhaps like the ones from tubemonger.


----------



## RMarks271

h2rulz said:


> @RMarks271
> I've bought a random socket saver off of eBay (did have good seller ratings) and did notice some sonic changes - returned them immediately and didn't care to get another.
> If anything, from my short experience with socket savers, is probably get the socket savers that are proven to be good, perhaps like the ones from tubemonger.



Hi,

Are you in the UK?

Interesting, I'm obviously keen to avoid any sonic interference.

Which savers are you referring to from tubemonger?


----------



## h2rulz (Oct 26, 2017)

RMarks271 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Are you in the UK?
> 
> ...



I'm in the states.
Btw, it very well may have been an outlier, but I kinda lost interest after that incident. I even had two different XLR adapters from the same place (not the place where I got the socket saver) sounding different (one had an interesting sound bass boost/distortion). I took a brief look at the site and this seems to be the appropriate one. Hopefully others in this thread can confirm.
_
Plug Play NOVIB Socket Saver©-1960s NOS British McMurdo Phenolic socket on Top plus Vibration Reduction Base - 9-pin B9A NOVAL_


----------



## RMarks271

h2rulz said:


> I'm in the states.
> Btw, it very well may have been an outlier, but I kinda lost interest after that incident. I even had two different XLR adapters from the same place (not the place where I got the socket saver) sounding different (one had an interesting sound base boost/distortion). I took a brief look at the site and this seems to be the appropriate one. Hopefully others in this thread can confirm.
> _
> Plug Play NOVIB Socket Saver©-1960s NOS British McMurdo Phenolic socket on Top plus Vibration Reduction Base - 9-pin B9A NOVAL_



So what signal chain have you settled on, and are you happy with that sonic production? And are you using the Schiit stock tubes?

Tube risers aside, how are you finding you Valhalla these many months down the line?


----------



## D Smith

@RMarks271 

I have the Tubemonger socket savers mentioned above and they work fine- no difference in sound.  The biggest benefit is the Valhalla case runs cooler, plus I like how the tubes look fully exposed. I've had the Valhalla for quite a while now and couldn't be happier with it.


----------



## RMarks271

D Smith said:


> @RMarks271
> 
> I have the Tubemonger socket savers mentioned above and they work fine- no difference in sound.  The biggest benefit is the Valhalla case runs cooler, plus I like how the tubes look fully exposed. I've had the Valhalla for quite a while now and couldn't be happier with it.



Thanks for your input. Just to confirms, are these the tubes you have?

http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm

Have you ever had any issues with them, any channel imbalances or sonic irregularities?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Those are by far the best socket savers out there. Those are exactly what you need. I've been rolling tubes for just about 3 years now, and never had one fail, or experienced any issues whatsoever.


RMarks271 said:


> Thanks for your input. Just to confirms, are these the tubes you have?
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm
> 
> Have you ever had any issues with them, any channel imbalances or sonic irregularities?


----------



## RMarks271

Guidostrunk said:


> Those are by far the best socket savers out there. Those are exactly what you need. I've been rolling tubes for just about 3 years now, and never had one fail, or experienced any issues whatsoever.



Thanks - they are a *lot* more expensive than I imagined. On eBay and other fora I've seen them mentioned for peanuts - four of these would set me back over £100. Is that normal?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Sounds about right. I wouldn't sacrifice your gear to the cheap ones on ebay. 
I  bought a pair of the cheap ones a few years back , and one fell apart before I could even use it. 

Tubemongers are well worth the price. 


RMarks271 said:


> Thanks - they are a *lot* more expensive than I imagined. On eBay and other fora I've seen them mentioned for peanuts - four of these would set me back over £100. Is that normal?


----------



## RMarks271

Guidostrunk said:


> Sounds about right. I wouldn't sacrifice your gear to the cheap ones on ebay.
> I  bought a pair of the cheap ones a few years back , and one fell apart before I could even use it.
> 
> Tubemongers are well worth the price.


Fair enough. Have you used them with any Schiit gear?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Yep. Valhalla, Lyr, Mjolnir 2. 





RMarks271 said:


> Fair enough. Have you used them with any Schiit gear?


----------



## RMarks271

Guidostrunk said:


> Yep. Valhalla, Lyr, Mjolnir 2.


No problems with any / sonic issues / channel issues etc? Total satisfaction?

I'm new to tubes and just a little wary of adding something into the unit that isn't the manufacturers' own.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Notta, zero, zilch. If you're interested in tubes. Come check us out over at the Lyr rolling thread. Everyone is eager to help, and save you time and money.  
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-973#post-13807595


RMarks271 said:


> No problems with any / sonic issues / channel issues etc? Total satisfaction?
> 
> I'm new to tubes and just a little wary of adding something into the unit that isn't the manufacturers' own.


----------



## RMarks271

Guidostrunk said:


> Notta, zero, zilch. If you're interested in tubes. Come check us out over at the Lyr rolling thread. Everyone is eager to help, and save you time and money.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-973#post-13807595



Thanks - I'll definitely check it out tomorrow. Bed time in the UK!


----------



## D Smith

RMarks271 said:


> Thanks for your input. Just to confirms, are these the tubes you have?
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm
> 
> Have you ever had any issues with them, any channel imbalances or sonic irregularities?


 
Yes, those are what I have and have had no problems. Worth the money if you want socket savers IMO.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Jumped aboard the Valhalla 2 ship again.

The stock tubes are wonderfully immersive and puts you right in the center of the magic, but suffer from fuzzy imaging, which for me does not work for classical.  I got a pair of Electro Harmonix tubes with it, and they fix the imaging problem and tighten things up, but you lose that holographic smoothness and sense of extended space.  

Are there any tubes recommended that are the best of both worlds?


----------



## ZenGentleman

ColtMrFire said:


> Jumped aboard the Valhalla 2 ship again.
> 
> The stock tubes are wonderfully immersive and puts you right in the center of the magic, but suffer from fuzzy imaging, which for me does not work for classical.  I got a pair of Electro Harmonix tubes with it, and they fix the imaging problem and tighten things up, but you lose that holographic smoothness and sense of extended space.
> 
> Are there any tubes recommended that are the best of both worlds?


JJ E88CC Gold Pins.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Don't waste your time with 6922 variants. Get yourself a pair of these first:
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/192106370227

Then get yourself a pair of these:
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/151621028745

 

I've been through just about every top tier 6922 tubes. Even the most expensive pinched waist heerlens. The 5670 variants smoke them in every way imo. And they're silly cheap in comparison. 




ColtMrFire said:


> Jumped aboard the Valhalla 2 ship again.
> 
> The stock tubes are wonderfully immersive and puts you right in the center of the magic, but suffer from fuzzy imaging, which for me does not work for classical.  I got a pair of Electro Harmonix tubes with it, and they fix the imaging problem and tighten things up, but you lose that holographic smoothness and sense of extended space.
> 
> Are there any tubes recommended that are the best of both worlds?


----------



## ColtMrFire

Very interesting.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Step over to the Lyr thread. The hype is real. I sold all my 6922 collection after I sampled all these variants. The 2 favorites on that thread are the Western Electric 396a (+or- $100 pair) , and Tung-sol 2c51($30 to $60 a pair) that I linked for you.  





ColtMrFire said:


> Very interesting.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Thanks for the like Mr. Moffat. If anyone has any reservations on the 5670/369a/2c51 variants. Just read up on Mike Moffats posts regarding them. You'll never buy another 6922 tube!


----------



## Baldr

Guidostrunk said:


> Thanks for the like Mr. Moffat. If anyone has any reservations on the 5670/369a/2c51 variants. Just read up on Mike Moffats posts regarding them. You'll never buy another 6922 tube!


The WE 396A tube is a wonder to hear.  Just make sure the yellow screenprint on the tube is thick and rises above the level of the glass .01 in or so to make sure they are original, and not rescreened by others.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Wow, I'll have to try this...


----------



## Wes S

Interesting.  So those that like the, WE 396A tube, have you ever tried the Amperex 7308 gold pins, from the mid 60's?  The Amperex 7308 PQ, from early 60's, are the best I have heard and give the best bass, soundstage, and natural top end.


----------



## Wes S

I have had my Valhalla 2, for a year now, and have rolled, Telefunken 6922 1968, stock Russians, Siemens A frame 1969, JJ Gold pins, Siemens 6922 gray shields, and Amperex 7308.  I liked the Amperex 7308, so much that I have 14 sets, for backup.


----------



## Cartesian_Impertinence

I was just looking for some tubes for my Valhalla 2! Will be trying this now.


----------



## Wes S

Correction - I have 4 sets of Amperex 7308, not 14.


----------



## Baldr (Oct 26, 2017)

Agreed that Amperex 7308 is the best of the 6DJ8/6922 family.  Back in the 1970’s when I was manufacturing the original Theta preamp, which was the first audio preamp to use that family tube, the 7308 tubes were much easier to come by.  At that time WE396A tubes were much scarcer and more expensive than 7308 tubes, but I still socket adapted and rolled them in for my own gear.


----------



## Wes S (Oct 26, 2017)

Mr. Moffat,  thanks for the response!   Any chance someone could, compare the WE396A to the Amperex 7308?  I really like how the Amperex 7308 has strong bass, and natural sounding top end, without being to bright.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I've been through every top tier 6922. They can't compete with the 5670 variants imo.  





Wes S said:


> Interesting.  So those that like the, WE 396A tube, have you ever tried the Amperex 7308 gold pins, from the mid 60's?  The Amperex 7308 PQ, from early 60's, are the best I have heard and give the best bass, soundstage, and natural top end.


----------



## Wes S

I am a bit of a basshead, and that is why I like the Amperex 7308, the most.  I use Beyerdynamic DT 1770, with my Valhalla 2 and the top end can be a little hot, so the Amperex 7308's slightly relaxed top end, and strong bass helps out.


----------



## Wes S

Does anyone know, where I can get a tube socket adapter, for 5670 to 6922, in the U.S.?  Thanks!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Can't get them in the US. 10 days from china to get here. If you're a basshead. The WE396A or Tung-sol 2c51 are your tubes. Tung-sol has better midrange imo. These tubes are nice and smooth, with a massive soundstage. Very 3D presentation. 





Wes S said:


> Does anyone know, where I can get a tube socket adapter, for 5670 to 6922, in the U.S.?  Thanks!


----------



## Marlowe

Guidostrunk said:


> Can't get them in the US. 10 days from china to get here. If you're a basshead. The WE396A or Tung-sol 2c51 are your tubes. Tung-sol has better midrange imo. These tubes are nice and smooth, with a massive soundstage. Very 3D presentation.



I found these so intriguing that I just ordered the Tung-sol 2c51s (the WE396As are a bit pricey for me ATM) and the adapter. The tubes should be here within a week, but probably at least a week longer for the adapters. (I'm currently using the stock power tubes and JJ E88CC Gold Pin driver tubes.)


----------



## Wes S

Awesome!  Thanks Guidostrunk!


----------



## ColtMrFire

Marlowe said:


> I found these so intriguing that I just ordered the Tung-sol 2c51s (the WE396As are a bit pricey for me ATM) and the adapter. The tubes should be here within a week, but probably at least a week longer for the adapters. (I'm currently using the stock power tubes and JJ E88CC Gold Pin driver tubes.)



How much did this cost you in total?


----------



## purehifi192

Baldr said:


> The WE 396A tube is a wonder to hear.  Just make sure the yellow screenprint on the tube is thick and rises above the level of the glass .01 in or so to make sure they are original, and not rescreened by others.



Vouch for these as well.  I got the socket adapters off eBay from a link Mike had posted before.  I believe the seller is xulingmrs.  396a plus the Gen 5 upgrade on my Bifrost which feeds the Valhalla 2 is amazing.


----------



## purehifi192

ColtMrFire said:


> How much did this cost you in total?



While not addressed to me directly, the tubes were $100 plus $15 for the socket adapters.  Not including the Gen 5 upgrade in the costing.


----------



## ColtMrFire

The tung-sols were supposed to be cheaper.


----------



## Wes S

I just pulled the trigger and bought the adapters and 4 of WE 396A tubes and I am really excited to give these a try!


----------



## Marlowe

ColtMrFire said:


> How much did this cost you in total?


Just over $67 total including shipping for a pair of the Tung-sols and 2 adapters. Surprisingly enough, I just got notified that the tubes have already shipped via USPS Priority, so thy should be here in a few days. The adapters from Hong Kong will take longer.


----------



## purehifi192

Wes S said:


> I just pulled the trigger and bought the adapters and 4 of WE 396A tubes and I am really excited to give these a try!



are 2 for backup?


----------



## Wes S

Yes.  I think I am gonna like them, and I always like to have backups, for peace of mind.


----------



## wwmhf

Then, how about these 5670 W 2C51 New JAN G.E. Tubes on ebay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5670-W-2C5...hash=item5882ce43d8:m:m9Te0p5jyAPKUc_qy1_PlTA


----------



## Baldr

wwmhf said:


> Then, how about these 5670 W 2C51 New JAN G.E. Tubes on ebay:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/5670-W-2C5...hash=item5882ce43d8:m:m9Te0p5jyAPKUc_qy1_PlTA


Waaaaaaaaaay better than most 6922 variants.


----------



## wwmhf

Good to know. 

I have some of these tubes for my Yarland P100 amp. Hence, I just need to but a pair of adapters and then use two of these 5670 Tubes in my Valhalla 2. Please let me know if my idea is wrong.


----------



## Marlowe

wwmhf said:


> Then, how about these 5670 W 2C51 New JAN G.E. Tubes on ebay:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/5670-W-2C5...hash=item5882ce43d8:m:m9Te0p5jyAPKUc_qy1_PlTA





Baldr said:


> Waaaaaaaaaay better than most 6922 variants.



At $15 per pair with shipping, I may take a chance on these as well.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Do they need to be matched?  They only seem to sell singles.


----------



## Wes S

For those that know about the WE 396A, what is the difference between the JW WE396A and WE396A?  What does the “JW” signify?


----------



## wwmhf

If I remember correctly, J means for military usage, W means extended life ...


----------



## wwmhf

These are what I found, and I hope they work on Valhalla 2:


----------



## purehifi192

Wes S said:


> For those that know about the WE 396A, what is the difference between the JW WE396A and WE396A?  What does the “JW” signify?



J for JAN meaning Joint Army/Navy and W for Western Electric.  Military version of the 396a.


----------



## Wes S

Thanks for the explanation!  Is there a difference in sound between the “JW” and the regular WE396A?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Some say they here heard a difference. I never have. 





Wes S said:


> Thanks for the explanation!  Is there a difference in sound between the “JW” and the regular WE396A?


----------



## Wes S

Awesome!   Thanks!  So probably like the Amperex PQ and USN-CEP?  Both are the same tube, one military and the other consumer.


----------



## Marlowe (Oct 27, 2017)

The 5670 adapters have now shipped, and quite quickly too, from Hong Kong. Unfortunately, the attempt to track the package was convoluted, yielded no results, and even put a virus on my computer which, happily, was picked up by Bitdefender. I imagine they'll get here, but not in the three days it took for DHL to deliver a Little Dot amp from China to NJ. I guess I'm a little gun shy since my only other Ebay purchase from a non-US seller (a pair of tubes from a Latvian seller) shipped quickly, but the tracking information never indicated the shipper or updated beyond "shipped" in three weeks. To his credit, the seller did issue me a prompt refund when I complained.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Does anyone know if those adapters negatively affect SQ?  I know some people reported some socket savers that did.


----------



## yangian

ColtMrFire said:


> Does anyone know if those adapters negatively affect SQ?  I know some people reported some socket savers that did.



I don't think so, at least for the 5670 adapters.


----------



## adydula

Anytime you add electro mechanical connections to a circuit your adding the possibility of getting unwanted attributes....sometimes just the opposite...it depends on the circuit design, stability, RF, location to other devices....and more.

By adding a socket saver your lengthening the leads, adding miniature antennas and another set of mechanical contacts.

You add capacitance and resistance and these might cause issues....

That said, I dont think in this case its a real issue...more so than ones curiousity and the search to a better "sound" than the designers original intent.

I find the Vahalla2 with the "el crapo" Russian NOS tubes it ships with sound just fine...

No real need for socket savers other than to spend some bucks.....IMO.

Alex


----------



## Wes S

ColtMrFire - I have been reading through this thread and the Lyr thread as well, for the last couple days, and no one has mentioned negative affects from the adapters.  I am assuming they are fine, because all I have read is good things about the 5670 tubes, and it seems that almost all are using the same adapters.


----------



## limelake

ColtMrFire said:


> Does anyone know if those adapters negatively affect SQ?  I know some people reported some socket savers that did.


I have socket savers ($2.49 from Tube Depot) and 5670 adapters (ebay about 20 $ shipped to canada). No problem with sound quality. In fact I use the socket savers with with 5670 adapters. The stock Tubes are absolutely fantastic. 5670's added in are nicer to me ! I think more expensive socket savers are snake oil.


----------



## limelake

My Valhalla 2 runs cooler with the socket savers.....maybe the caps in it will last a little longer ? I do leave my tube stuff on for hours (5-6) at a time. On occasion  longer.


----------



## limelake

5670's are dirt cheap.....best bang for the buck upgrade (with adapters). Cheap upgrade with great results all around. For those who wonder about using grado and other low impendence headphones with Valhalla 2......It sounds fan-friggin-tastic ! Plenty of "Ball's" for them. I prefer it to my Vali 2 and Bravo Ocean....and both have more power output into low impedance.


----------



## fianbarr

limelake said:


> 5670's are dirt cheap.....best bang for the buck upgrade (with adapters). Cheap upgrade with great results all around.


Yeah, the 5670's I can find for about £5 apiece, the adapters I can't find under £15 apiece.


----------



## Marlowe

I'm using the $2.49 socket savers from Tube Depot; I got them for entirely aesthetic reasons: IMO the amp looks far nicer with the the tubes sitting higher out of the case. FWIW, the amp does run noticeably cooler in this configuration. Since the 5670 adapters accomplish the same thing, once I get them I don't intend to use the socket savers on the driver tubes.


----------



## limelake

I use socket savers in my Glow Amp 1 and my Valhalla 2 in all sockets. Yep I do like the look too !


----------



## sinky

Hi all
My schiit valhalla 2 Developed a hum in the right channel today.
Was using it yesterday but  forgot to switch it off , it was a bit toasty this morning.
when I swap the tubes from the right to the left the problem moves to the left channel.
probably the tubes then??  
can you tubes get damaged if you leave the amp on to long?


----------



## limelake

ya probably the tubes. I would almost bet on it.


----------



## adydula

What kills tubes is turning them on and off alot.....leaving them on for long periods of time dont really hurt them as much as a frequent on/off cycle.

If a tube has 5000 hours mtbf then you should be able to leave them on for 5000 hours before they go below their spec's.

When I listen I turn on the amp, let it bake for an hour or so and listen for a few hours....vs turning it on and off every 15-30 minutes...this on off cycle
tears up the "magic" stuff on the plate, cathode, heater etc....

A.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I leave my gear on 24/7.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'd pull them tubes , and re-seat them. You can also get some deoxit and clean the pins. Over time the pins can get corroded. 





sinky said:


> Hi all
> My schiit valhalla 2 Developed a hum in the right channel today.
> Was using it yesterday but  forgot to switch it off , it was a bit toasty this morning.
> when I swap the tubes from the right to the left the problem moves to the left channel.
> ...


----------



## adydula

He did....


----------



## sinky (Oct 27, 2017)

Have ordered a new set of tubes  .
The amp was bought used off ebay and have only been using it for a few weeks so maybe I was unlucky and the tubes were on the way out.

Never heard any signs of sound degrading or any nasty hum last night and today borked.
Just wondering after having the amp on all evening and forgetting to turn off could  damage your tubes it does get pretty hot compared to my little dot III (which I have left on for ages) I,m back to using till the dot till my new tubes arrive.

Just ordered stock tubes of schiit  ,was very much enjoying the  stock sound with my new beyerdynamic T1.
Think I could live with this combo for  a long time.


----------



## Mike Thompson

sinky said:


> Have ordered a new set of tubes  .
> The amp was bought used off ebay and have only been using it for a few weeks so maybe I was unlucky and the tubes were on the way out.
> 
> Never heard any signs of sound degrading or any nasty hum last night and today borked.
> ...


Leaving it on all night shouldn't really have any effect other than shortening the overall lifespan of the tubes. It does run hot but remember you're running four tubes.


----------



## Marlowe

Tubes just go sometimes. One of the driver tubes blew out 90 minutes after I turned the Valhalla 2 on. Schiit sent me an entire new set of four tubes the next day (Saturday BTW), so I not only have no complaints, I sort of came out ahead. Though TBH, I probably wasn't feeling so philosophical for the several days I couldn't listen to my new amp. (Since the four Valhalla tubes are boxed together, it's probably the easiest way for Schiit to replace a bad tube, aside from garnering good customer relations.)


----------



## adydula

3,000 - 5,000 hours typically for the tubes that come with the Vahalla 2, according to Schiit on there site, all for $40 or $10 a tube compare that to the megabucks spent on all those "magical" NOS tubes out there....

Rather save for a new set of headphones!!

lol
Alex


----------



## Guidostrunk

For less than  $40, you can have some "magical" NOS , non megabucks tubes , that are far superior than stock. 
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/362141906529

Adapters are needed though. 
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/191928438290




adydula said:


> 3,000 - 5,000 hours typically for the tubes that come with the Vahalla 2, according to Schiit on there site, all for $40 or $10 a tube compare that to the megabucks spent on all those "magical" NOS tubes out there....
> 
> Rather save for a new set of headphones!!
> 
> ...


----------



## adydula

Ha!

That's, $31.95 for only 2 tubes...and the socket savers are $17.90 each and then there's shipping...and what the heck is
"far superior" mean??? and most ooompa lumpas spend more than this easily.

No Thanks....the stock tubes are just fine thank you!

Please don't take this as a slam...don't want to rain on your parade...I have spent mega bucks myself and my pile of 50+ tubes has told me that all that is supposedly "gold" is not necessarily "gold".

Most of the AB testing and blind listening tests have shown most people strain to hear any real world differences....not that there aren't some....

all the best..
A.


----------



## Wes S

I've got some we396a's and tungsol 2c51, on the way and I am stoked!


----------



## Marlowe

adydula said:


> ...and the socket savers are $17.90 each



FWIW, the $17.90 is for two adapters; one is $9.50.


----------



## limelake

For adapters and a set of 5670's it's about 30 $. Pretty cheap upgrade ! And a noticeable upgrade ! I got more out of this upgrade then I did when I bought a set of Kimber Cables....!


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> I've got some we396a's and tungsol 2c51, on the way and I am stoked!


I am a huge fan of the Western Electric 396A square getters, the Tung Sol are quite good also. Mid range king best I ever heard.


----------



## Guidostrunk

LOL! No parades here. For the record, which isn't of importance to you. The adapters are for a pair. 

I'm happy for you that the stock tubes float your boat. 

Take care. LOL



adydula said:


> Ha!
> 
> That's, $31.95 for only 2 tubes...and the socket savers are $17.90 each and then there's shipping...and what the heck is
> "far superior" mean??? and most ooompa lumpas spend more than this easily.
> ...


----------



## wwmhf

I stupidly ordered just one adapter from Ebay.


----------



## wwmhf

Upgrading from cable is usually not obvious to me, one reason might be just that the cables made myself can beat those exotic ones


----------



## Guidostrunk

No biggie. Just contact the seller and let him know that you want a pair. 





wwmhf said:


> I stupidly ordered just one adapter from Ebay.


----------



## wwmhf

Guidostrunk said:


> No biggie. Just contact the seller and let him know that you want a pair.



I did something like that, but I just ordered another 3 adapters from the same seller. I hope this adapter+different tubes works well so that I can try this trick on other amps.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by these 5670 variants. Over the last 3 years, I've spent close to 2k on 6922 variants. In the last 3 months , I've spent approximately  $200 on the 5670 variants. Imo, it's not even close. The SQ of the 5670's is in a different league all together. I wish I had discovered them long ago. Lol. 

Reserve judgement for at least the first 20 hours. Between the tube, and your brain burning in, it takes a bit to wrap your head around it. I knew within about 4 hours that they were absolutely, without a doubt, they were a LOT better than anything I've previously heard. 


wwmhf said:


> I did something like that, but I just ordered another 3 adapters from the same seller. I hope this adapter+different tubes works well so that I can try this trick on other amps.


----------



## Guidostrunk

More food for thought for you guys. If extremely MASSIVE soundstage, and a smooth warm syrupy  sound is an absolute must. You can give these a shot. My second favorite tube in my collection.

Adapters:
You'll need 2 of course.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/191554107223

6c8g tubes: Tung-sol black glass/ round plates (which I'm currently selling a spare pair from this seller).

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/202012976996

Yes, the Soundstage is huge. They're very smooth and warm. Very holographic/3D.

Sorry for the tube overload folks.


----------



## Wes S

Oh my!  I am in trouble!  Down the hole go. . .


----------



## yangian

Guidostrunk said:


> More food for thought for you guys. If extremely MASSIVE soundstage, and a smooth warm syrupy  sound is an absolute must. You can give these a shot. My second favorite tube in my collection.
> 
> Adapters:
> You'll need 2 of course.
> ...



Are these for 6n1p or 6n6p?


----------



## yangian

Guidostrunk said:


> I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by these 5670 variants. Over the last 3 years, I've spent close to 2k on 6922 variants. In the last 3 months , I've spent approximately  $200 on the 5670 variants. Imo, it's not even close. The SQ of the 5670's is in a different league all together. I wish I had discovered them long ago. Lol.
> 
> Reserve judgement for at least the first 20 hours. Between the tube, and your brain burning in, it takes a bit to wrap your head around it. I knew within about 4 hours that they were absolutely, without a doubt, they were a LOT better than anything I've previously heard.



Another headfier and I recommended before, we think Russia 6N3P-E is even better than 5670. I also have a pair WE396A. Didn't do extensive A/B with 6N3P-E, but seems 6N3P-E have larger soundstage.


----------



## Guidostrunk

6n1p , 6922, E88cc,...etc. 





yangian said:


> Are these for 6n1p or 6n6p?


----------



## yangian

Guidostrunk said:


> 6n1p , 6922, E88cc,...etc.



Cool! Thanks


----------



## wwmhf

Good to know this possibility because I have quite a few 6N3P-EV




yangian said:


> Another headfier and I recommended before, we think Russia 6N3P-E is even better than 5670. I also have a pair WE396A. Didn't do extensive A/B with 6N3P-E, but seems 6N3P-E have larger soundstage.


----------



## latexchicken

I tried searching and read thru hundreds of posts trying to find the answer.  I do apologize if this is shown somewhere and i have missed it.

I'm looking for some suggestions on tubes for my Beyerdynamic DT 1770 Pros.  I'm using a Focusrite Saffire pro 24 as my dac using the output channels 3 and 4 to go to my gen 1 Valhalla.  

When listening directly out of the Focusrite, I felt the mids a bit recessed as well as (to my ears) a very crisp (near sibilant) treble signature.  The bass however was deep, tight, fast and musical.  

When listening with the stock tubes on the Valhalla, female vocals all of a sudden really smoothed out and not near as sharp as when only using the SS Focusrite.  Much much much improved.  The high detail was still there as well and is now a more refined sound.  Also, it seems the mids came out a bit more.  Ok...so far, 2 out of 3 get a thumbs up...here lies the problem:  the bass now while more pronounced, has lost some of the detail (and is now somewhat more muddy on some tracks) that I had when only using the Focusrite.  I like bass but by no means am I ""bass head" and want to get the detail and musicality back.  

What I am hoping to find is a set of tubes that will:

1.  Give me a similar treble signature to the stock tubes with possibly rounding them out a little further (without sacrificing detail).  
2.  Keep the mids working...maybe even a little more mid boost though slight.  If the mids stayed exactly the same, I would still be happy.
3.  Tighten up the bass to how it was when going direct from the Focusrite...they really did sound great to my ears.  The bass with the stock tubes with these phones IMO is unacceptable to my listening preferences with these phones.


----------



## Wes S

My favorite are Amperex 7308 from 60's.  I feel they are a match made in heaven, with my DT 1770.  However, I am waiting for my adapters, for my WE396A tubes, and I can't wait to see if they can dethrone, my beloved Amperex 7308 tubes.


----------



## KoshNaranek

latexchicken said:


> I tried searching and read thru hundreds of posts trying to find the answer.  I do apologize if this is shown somewhere and i have missed it.
> 
> I'm looking for some suggestions on tubes for my Beyerdynamic DT 1770 Pros.  I'm using a Focusrite Saffire pro 24 as my dac using the output channels 3 and 4 to go to my gen 1 Valhalla.
> 
> ...




Given your clear description of your desires, I would give you three potential choices:

1. 6cg7. Better bass than stock. Laid back presentation. Closest to stock.
2. Ecc804. Available from tube Depot. Emphasis on mid-range. Tighter Bass than 6cg7.
3. Toshiba 7dj8. From The Tube Store. Tightest Bass. Good bloom. Best for Rock in my opinion among the 3 recommendations. Smooth highs. A bit more mellow than the Amperex, but a LOT cheaper.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> My favorite are Amperex 7308 from 60's.  I feel they are a match made in heaven, with my DT 1770.  However, I am waiting for my adapters, for my WE396A tubes, and I can't wait to see if they can dethrone, my beloved Amperex 7308 tubes.



I find the WE 396A square getters better if not all my 6922 variant tubes and I splashed a lot of money on those 6922 tubes.Listened to quite a few of the best tubes availablle. The Tung Sol 2C51 d or square can be had for under $40. Same adapter.

#saved by Billy


----------



## KoshNaranek

TK16 said:


> I find the WE 396A square getters better if not all my 6922 variant tubes and I splashed a lot of money on those 6922 tubes.Listened to quite a few of the best tubes availablle. The Tung Sol 2C51 d or square can be had for under $40. Same adapter.
> 
> #saved by Billy




The 396 variants that I have tried have been a bit light in the base emphasis. Do you have a preferred tube in the 396 line for bass?


----------



## TK16

Western Electric 396A is my favorite, 2nd best imo is Tung Sol 2C51, the TS has the best midrange I ever heard. In the 6922 family, Mullards are the best imo for bass along with the Heerlen pinched waists.


----------



## Dvdlucena

I was wondering if someone tried 6sn7 into valhala. What’s the best position? Pre or power?
Is it worth it? Thanks


----------



## Dvdlucena

sorry to re open this thread. but i was thinking in use my 6sn7 collection into valhalla. is it worth?


limelake said:


> Warmer ? Roll in some JAN-GE 5670's with the adapter available on ebay. I did....sounds yummy but real !


----------



## latexchicken

I do want to thank you guys for giving me some suggestions.  The Amperex 7308s (Telefunken, etc) I am sure sound wonderful but at least for this amp IMO, seem to be at a price range better served for a higher end unit.  I was intrigued by some of the comments for the Western Electric 396a (along with other 5670/2c51 tubes) and using an adapter.  I did order the adapters along with some Russian 6N3P DRs as well as some GE 5670s (both really cheap) to try.  I'm sure I will roll through some others as well until I find what works best for my phones and ears.  More than likely, I will get some Western Electric 396a's too.  i will post my impressions when all has been received and a little break-in.


----------



## purehifi192

Dvdlucena said:


> sorry to re open this thread. but i was thinking in use my 6sn7 collection into valhalla. is it worth?


I don't think the 6sn7 tubes will work in the Valahlla and can't imagine an adapter exists that fits the physical limitations of the Valhalla and has the necessary properties.


----------



## Dvdlucena

purehifi192 said:


> I don't think the 6sn7 tubes will work in the Valahlla and can't imagine an adapter exists that fits the physical limitations of the Valhalla and has the necessary properties.


Some people did the job. I’m just asking if it worth to do it.


----------



## purehifi192

Didn't realize.  Now you got me wondering...


----------



## KoshNaranek

Dvdlucena said:


> Some people did the job. I’m just asking if it worth to do it.


The 6cg7 is apparently a 6sn7 in nine pin format. I tried NOS RCA and EH new. The RCA was better but neither were to my taste. Too laid back


----------



## Dvdlucena

KoshNaranek said:


> The 6cg7 is apparently a 6sn7 in nine pin format. I tried NOS RCA and EH new. The RCA was better but neither were to my taste. Too laid back


Thank you. How about ecc99. Are those equal to the 6n6p in the back tubes?


----------



## limelake (Nov 10, 2017)

Dvdlucena said:


> sorry to re open this thread. but i was thinking in use my 6sn7 collection into valhalla. is it worth?


The 5670's with adapter is very worth it...a no brainer in my opinion ! as for 6SN7's I can't comment. I know nothing about using them in the Valhalla. 20 $ Canadian all in is what i spent for tubes and 5670 adapter. adapter can be used with 396's too i think.


----------



## yangian

limelake said:


> The 5670's with adapter is very worth it...a no brainer in my opinion ! as for 6SN7's I can't comment. I know nothing about using them in the Valhalla. 20 $ Canadian all in is what i spent for tubes and 5670 adapter. adapter can be used with 396's too i think.



Yes. 5670/396/6n3 family all use the same adapter.


----------



## notfitforpublic

limelake said:


> The 5670's with adapter is very worth it...a no brainer in my opinion ! as for 6SN7's I can't comment. I know nothing about using them in the Valhalla. 20 $ Canadian all in is what i spent for tubes and 5670 adapter. adapter can be used with 396's too i think.



Where from might I ask? Did you find a Canadian source?


----------



## limelake

notfitforpublic said:


> Where from might I ask? Did you find a Canadian source?


I bought the adapters off ebay (they came from china). The tubes i bought off "The Tube Store" (Canadian). I also bought another 6 tubes from The Tube Depot in USA. All online.


----------



## limelake

Are you in Canada ?


----------



## KoshNaranek

Dvdlucena said:


> Thank you. How about ecc99. Are those equal to the 6n6p in the back tubes?


I don't think so. Spec sheet on ecc99 says 12 volt heater rather than 6 volt.


----------



## notfitforpublic

limelake said:


> I bought the adapters off ebay (they came from china). The tubes i bought off "The Tube Store" (Canadian). I also bought another 6 tubes from The Tube Depot in USA. All online.


Thanks for the heads up. Prices people are throwing around seem too cheap not to give them a try and pit them against my current line up.


limelake said:


> Are you in Canada ?


Yup, Calgary.


----------



## Marlowe

yangian said:


> Yes. 5670/396/6n3 family all use the same adapter.



The listing for the adapter I got this week from a Chinese vendor on Ebay states it works for 5670, 6N3, and 2C51 tubes. (The label on the adapter itself says 6N3 to ECC88.) I'm using them with Tung-Sol 2C51s, which I am happy with thus far. BTW, Ebay currently has a listing for US military NOS GE 5670Ws at $4 a shot. Is this ridiculously cheap tube equal to the others in this family?


----------



## yangian

Marlowe said:


> The listing for the adapter I got this week from a Chinese vendor on Ebay states it works for 5670, 6N3, and 2C51 tubes. (The label on the adapter itself says 6N3 to ECC88.) I'm using them with Tung-Sol 2C51s, which I am happy with thus far. BTW, Ebay currently has a listing for US military NOS GE 5670Ws at $4 a shot. Is this ridiculously cheap tube equal to the others in this family?



I just took a look on Ebay and found the price of 5670 went up a lot!


----------



## Marlowe

yangian said:


> I just took a look on Ebay and found the price of 5670 went up a lot!



The ones I was referring to are still $4. https://www.ebay.com/itm/5670-W-2C5...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649


----------



## yangian

Marlowe said:


> The ones I was referring to are still $4. https://www.ebay.com/itm/5670-W-2C51-New-JAN-G-E-Tube-eq-Western-Electric-396A/380151677912?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649



Oh, yeah, this is what I bought of my 5670 tubes. I just could not search it out. Thank you to let me know. These are great tubes, very impressive!


----------



## wwmhf

I received the adapters bought from Ebay today and I am listening to a pair of GE Jan 5670Ws paid for $4.00 a piece from Ebay. They sounds good for now. 

I had a great difficulty to put 5670s into the adapters. After trying a few ways, I gave up and the bottoms of the 5670s is still about 2-3 mm above the top of the adapters. I have no issues to put 6n3p into these adapter.


----------



## wwmhf

The GE Jan 5670Ws I bought from Ebay were made in 1988, if that matters.


----------



## yangian

wwmhf said:


> I received the adapters bought from Ebay today and I am listening to a pair of GE Jan 5670Ws paid for $4.00 a piece from Ebay. They sounds good for now.
> 
> I had a great difficulty to put 5670s into the adapters. After trying a few ways, I gave up and the bottoms of the 5670s is still about 2-3 mm above the top of the adapters. I have no issues to put 6n3p into these adapter.



I bought mine from Taobao. No problem with whatever 5670/396/6n3p


----------



## Marlowe

I had some difficulty inserting the Tung-Sol 2C51s into the adapters. It didn't help that one pin on one of the tubes was somewhat bent. But after playing with them for a minute or so, I got both tubes fully inserted and flush with the adapter.


----------



## wwmhf

yangian said:


> I bought mine from Taobao. No problem with whatever 5670/396/6n3p



Good to know. It will be great if you can share the link to which one you bought.


----------



## wwmhf

Marlowe said:


> I had some difficulty inserting the Tung-Sol 2C51s into the adapters. It didn't help that one pin on one of the tubes was somewhat bent. But after playing with them for a minute or so, I got both tubes fully inserted and flush with the adapter.



I also has a similar difficulty to put a pair of Sylvania 2C51 into the adapters, but, as you described, I did get them fully inserted. Inserting the Russian 6n3p into the adapters is as usual. It is just impossible to insert those 5670 fully. 

It seems like that these tubes structures are slightly different even though they are compatible.


----------



## yangian

wwmhf said:


> Good to know. It will be great if you can share the link to which one you bought.



Here is it:
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a211ha.10565794.0.0.4f59039bUzfHQw&id=40120635823&toSite=main


----------



## Wes S

Well. . .I finally got some adapters and gave 1 of my sets of NOS WE396A tubes, a test run for a couple of hours last night. I was using my Beyerdynamic DT 1770 and I am still in awe of the experience.  The WE396A tubes, are on another level than my Amperex 7308, without a doubt.  The WE396A are everything I have ever wanted from a tube amp.  They are warm, but still resolving, with this amazingly wide soundstage and are so euphonic it is awesome!  They literally surround you in sound and never let up.  The weight of the notes is stunning and really brings the tracks to life.  I feel like they just took my system up a couple of levels, and I never knew my DT 1770's could sound like this.

Thank you Guidostrunk and others, for letting us know about these tubes!!  You have made my listening enjoyment just that much better!!!!


----------



## yangian

Wes S said:


> Well. . .I finally got some adapters and gave 1 of my sets of NOS WE396A tubes, a test run for a couple of hours last night. I was using my Beyerdynamic DT 1770 and I am still in awe of the experience.  The WE396A tubes, are on another level than my Amperex 7308, without a doubt.  The WE396A are everything I have ever wanted from a tube amp.  They are warm, but still resolving, with this amazingly wide soundstage and are so euphonic it is awesome!  They literally surround you in sound and never let up.  The weight of the notes is stunning and really brings the tracks to life.  I feel like they just took my system up a couple of levels, and I never knew my DT 1770's could sound like this.
> 
> Thank you Guidostrunk and others, for letting us know about these tubes!!  You have made my listening enjoyment just that much better!!!!



6n3P-E has larger soundstage than 396A. But 396A has much better dynamic.


----------



## wwmhf

yangian said:


> Here is it:
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a211ha.10565794.0.0.4f59039bUzfHQw&id=40120635823&toSite=main



Thanks for the link, and now I need to figure out how to buy it from there.


----------



## Wes S

Hey there.  To those of you, that are using the 5670/2c51, 396a variants, do you ever use them on high gain, with the Valhalla 2?  Do you notice a difference in where you put the volume knob between using the 2 different types of tubes?  I am asking, because I run my Amperex 7308's on high gain, with my Beyerdynamic DT 1770's and I can just barely hear a tube hum.  However, with my first set of WE396A, they hum like crazy if put on high gain.  I am wondering if this is just a difference in tube types, or if I got a really noisy pair.  The volume knob, is set just a bit higher, with the we396a on low gain, vs. Amperex 7308 on high gain, using my DT 1770's.  thanks for your time!  and I hope this makes since. . .


----------



## yangian

Wes S said:


> Hey there.  To those of you, that are using the 5670/2c51, 396a variants, do you ever use them on high gain, with the Valhalla 2?  Do you notice a difference in where you put the volume knob between using the 2 different types of tubes?  I am asking, because I run my Amperex 7308's on high gain, with my Beyerdynamic DT 1770's and I can just barely hear a tube hum.  However, with my first set of WE396A, they hum like crazy if put on high gain.  I am wondering if this is just a difference in tube types, or if I got a really noisy pair.  The volume knob, is set just a bit higher, with the we396a on low gain, vs. Amperex 7308 on high gain, using my DT 1770's.  thanks for your time!  and I hope this makes since. . .



I always use high gain no matter what tubes. Only once these was a little hiss of one side of 396A. But it went away when I turn off and turn on again.


----------



## Wes S

yangian - what headphones do you use?


----------



## yangian

Wes S said:


> yangian - what headphones do you use?



HD600


----------



## Wes S

Got it.  I have not tried my HD 650 or 600 with the we396a, but i know my DT 1770 are more sensitive.


----------



## wwmhf

Wes S said:


> Hey there.  To those of you, that are using the 5670/2c51, 396a variants, do you ever use them on high gain, with the Valhalla 2?  Do you notice a difference in where you put the volume knob between using the 2 different types of tubes?  I am asking, because I run my Amperex 7308's on high gain, with my Beyerdynamic DT 1770's and I can just barely hear a tube hum.  However, with my first set of WE396A, they hum like crazy if put on high gain.  I am wondering if this is just a difference in tube types, or if I got a really noisy pair.  The volume knob, is set just a bit higher, with the we396a on low gain, vs. Amperex 7308 on high gain, using my DT 1770's.  thanks for your time!  and I hope this makes since. . .



Your description makes sense, but I did not hear any hum in high gain with a pair GE JAN 5670W with Sennheiser 650 or Byer T1


----------



## limelake

Wes S said:


> Hey there.  To those of you, that are using the 5670/2c51, 396a variants, do you ever use them on high gain, with the Valhalla 2?  Do you notice a difference in where you put the volume knob between using the 2 different types of tubes?  I am asking, because I run my Amperex 7308's on high gain, with my Beyerdynamic DT 1770's and I can just barely hear a tube hum.  However, with my first set of WE396A, they hum like crazy if put on high gain.  I am wondering if this is just a difference in tube types, or if I got a really noisy pair.  The volume knob, is set just a bit higher, with the we396a on low gain, vs. Amperex 7308 on high gain, using my DT 1770's.  thanks for your time!  and I hope this makes since. . .


I always use my Valhalla 2 high gain, no hiss or problems with 5670's. I mostly use Grado HP.


----------



## Wes S

Interesting . . .I thought Grado's with low impedence would not be a good match with the Vahalla 2 and especially on high gain.  You must have some super quiet tubes.


----------



## Marlowe

I don't hear any hum using Sung-Tol 2C51s on high gain with Sennheiser HD 700 and HD 6XX.


----------



## wwmhf

limelake said:


> I always use my Valhalla 2 high gain, no hiss or problems with 5670's. I mostly use Grado HP.



Grado HP in Valhalla? How does do they perform together?


----------



## Wes S

Thanks for all the feedback!  I think I might have some noisy tubes.  Time to try one of my back up pairs and if that does not work, I am going to try another set of adapters.


----------



## limelake

wwmhf said:


> Grado HP in Valhalla? How does do they perform together?


Sounds great. Not as loud as my Vali 2, but more bass ( a little warm'n tubby not overly though) and much nicer highs. Sounds very spacious. Volume is about halfway tops !


----------



## limelake

Wes S said:


> Interesting . . .I thought Grado's with low impedence would not be a good match with the Vahalla 2 and especially on high gain.  You must have some super quiet tubes.


No....I just have some GE5670's with adapters and the stock russian amp tubes. Maybe I got a special amp ? Has plenty of power.


----------



## wwmhf

I have tried three types tubes with the adapter: GE 5670W, Sylvania 2C51, and the Russian 6N3P. I think I like the GE 5670s the best.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Well. . .I finally got some adapters and gave 1 of my sets of NOS WE396A tubes, a test run for a couple of hours last night. I was using my Beyerdynamic DT 1770 and I am still in awe of the experience.  The WE396A tubes, are on another level than my Amperex 7308, without a doubt.  The WE396A are everything I have ever wanted from a tube amp.  They are warm, but still resolving, with this amazingly wide soundstage and are so euphonic it is awesome!  They literally surround you in sound and never let up.  The weight of the notes is stunning and really brings the tracks to life.  I feel like they just took my system up a couple of levels, and I never knew my DT 1770's could sound like this.
> 
> Thank you Guidostrunk and others, for letting us know about these tubes!!  You have made my listening enjoyment just that much better!!!!


The Western Electric 396A was the first 396A/2C51/5670 pair of tubes I tried and are my absolute favorite of those variants. Better than the vast majority of all the 6922 variants I ever heard, if not the best.


----------



## wwmhf

According to the price on Ebay, any Western Electric 396A should sound GOOD, right?


----------



## TK16

I posted 2 quad WE 396A @$199.99 OBO. Decent price.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-1000


----------



## Wes S

Here to report, an update of my experience with my WE396A's, after about 60 hours of listening. . . MIND BLOWN!!!  These tubes have opened up from top to bottom, without any hint of harshness in the top end and they have become super quiet as well.  I have never heard imaging and seperation, so well.  I can visualize the performance and placement of the instruments as if I was sitting in the room.  Freaking amazing listening experience, everytime I fire them up.  These tubes have really taken my system to another level and I am not exaggerating at all.


----------



## yangian (Nov 21, 2017)

After a period of listening, I realized 6N3P-E with Foton tubes is much better than WE396A with Foton tubes!
BTW, Foton tubes seems to be much better than stock 6n6p. At least a perfect matching with 6N3P-E.


----------



## wwmhf

yangian said:


> After a period of listening, I realized 6N3P-E with Foton tubes is much better than WE396A with Foton tubes!
> BTW, Foton tubes seems to be much better than stock 6n6p. At least a perfect matching with 6N3P-E.



By "Foton tubes", do you mean 6N6P by Foton?


----------



## yangian

wwmhf said:


> By "Foton tubes", do you mean 6N6P by Foton?



Oh, yeah.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Here to report, an update of my experience with my WE396A's, after about 60 hours of listening. . . MIND BLOWN!!!  These tubes have opened up from top to bottom, without any hint of harshness in the top end and they have become super quiet as well.  I have never heard imaging and seperation, so well.  I can visualize the performance and placement of the instruments as if I was sitting in the room.  Freaking amazing listening experience, everytime I fire them up.  These tubes have really taken my system to another level and I am not exaggerating at all.


They are quite good, the Tung Sol 2C51 I rate a notch below is quite good too at a much lower price. I find the other brands GE, Bendix etc a bit harsh in the highs and bass light. The Reflektor 6N3P-E is quite good for the price, warm and detailed.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 - I do have 3 sets of the Tung Sol 2c51, but the we396a are so good, that I have not even tried them yet.  Thanks for the info!


----------



## nocturaline

After switching to the JAN-Phillips 6922 that initially were in my X-CAN V3 and finding them quite bright (they sound really good in the X-CAN though), I ordered a pair of JJ E88CC Gold, and wow, now I can really say the Valhalla 2 is a real tube amp. The JJs are warm and detailed, and I no longer listen to the "sound"; I listen to the music.


----------



## Mike Thompson (Nov 27, 2017)

I'm currently using a pair of Northern Electric 6SN7's on the gain side and really like them. With the Black Friday sales I ordered another pair for the buffer side. Not sure if I'l really hear any difference but thought I would give having quads a try. I'll post agin after they arrive.

Oops... that was for my Freya


----------



## redrich2000

Newb question... are people only rolling the input tubes?


----------



## KoshNaranek

redrich2000 said:


> Newb question... are people only rolling the input tubes?


Mostly yes, the consensus appears to be that the power tube options are limited and limited benefit


----------



## yangian

Can 6CG7 be used for 6n6p directly?
How about its sound compared to futon 6n6p?


----------



## RMarks271

Hi All,

Sorry to dredge up a thread that has been fairly quiet recently, but I was hoping someone could share some advice.

I recently bought a Valhalla 2 from you, and so far everything is working great.

However, from its first switch-on, in one of the front tubes, there is a fairly significant imbalance of the brightness from the two 'sides' of the tube.

You can see in this first photo that in the tube in the background, the right-hand 'glow' is significantly brighter than the left; it is dome-shaped and glowing more strongly than the flatter glow on the left. The tube in the foreground shows the other front tube, with both sides of the tube glowing pretty much exactly equally.


 

In the second photo, the tube is shown close-up, and it is very obvious there is a difference on either side.

 

Is this normal, or is there a problem with the tube?

Many thanks for any input.


----------



## redrich2000 (Dec 26, 2017)

RMarks271 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Sorry to dredge up a thread that has been fairly quiet recently, but I was hoping someone could share some advice.
> 
> ...



My stock tubes were the same. Didn't notice any issue with channel balance so I assumed it was normal. If you're worried email Schiit, they're very responsive.


----------



## KoshNaranek

RMarks271 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Sorry to dredge up a thread that has been fairly quiet recently, but I was hoping someone could share some advice.
> 
> ...


The difference in glow is from a slight difference in placement of the cathode heater. The tubes are tested on a curve tracer by Schiit and have equal triode electrical characteristics. Don't concern yourself. You should see the differences in the way RCA tubes in my Freya light up! It does not make for a pretty collection of tubes, but they sound great and I will not part with them


----------



## RMarks271

redrich2000 said:


> My stock tubes were the same. Didn't notice any issue with channel balance so I assumed it was normal. If you're worried email Schiit, they're very responsive.


Thanks - I assume it's nothing - just good to check others' experiences.


----------



## RMarks271

KoshNaranek said:


> The difference in glow is from a slight difference in placement of the cathode heater. The tubes are tested on a curve tracer by Schiit and have equal triode electrical characteristics. Don't concern yourself. You should see the differences in the way RCA tubes in my Freya light up! It does not make for a pretty collection of tubes, but they sound great and I will not part with them


Thank you - as with the previous reply, I was assuming it wasn't anything major, since there are no channel imbalances or any sonic differences.

Thanks for replying.


----------



## Mr.Tom

Totally normal. It just looks different because the heating coils are not always placed in the same position. It looks brighter because your seeing more coil.





RMarks271 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Sorry to dredge up a thread that has been fairly quiet recently, but I was hoping someone could share some advice.
> 
> ...


----------



## RMarks271

Thanks - always happy for more confirmation all is OK.


----------



## yangian

What's the two small light (LCD?) for which are on the board just before the tubes?


----------



## limelake

For Biasing the tubes I think.....


----------



## orderingrabbits

I burnt my finger touching the valhalla 2 output tubes today.

Also, I put some GE's 6CG7s in there. Anyone else running this setup? I don't really notice a difference.


----------



## northdown

I recently picked up a second hand Valhalla 2 with a few spare tubes, including a set of GE 6CG7 - just to check: they would replace front (lower) set of stock tubes, so you end up with two sets of the taller tubes? 



D Smith said:


> I picked up a pair of GE 6CG7s and have been listening to them in my Valhalla 2. I am very pleased with the sound which is pretty neutral but full and clean.  The Amperex 6DJ8s I normally listen to are definitely warmer but these are just as good.


----------



## orderingrabbits

northdown said:


> I recently picked up a second hand Valhalla 2 with a few spare tubes, including a set of GE 6CG7 - just to check: they would replace front (lower) set of stock tubes, so you end up with two sets of the taller tubes?


Yes, that's correct.


----------



## adydula

FYI:

Is Valhalla rollable?
Yes! The standard 6N1P input tubes can be subbed out for any 6DJ8/6922/ECC88/ECC85/6BZ7 types, including NOS, cryo-treated, voodoo-blessed, hand-assembled by elves, etc. 

Dont see 6CG7's in this list?

A.


----------



## KoshNaranek

adydula said:


> FYI:
> 
> Is Valhalla rollable?
> Yes! The standard 6N1P input tubes can be subbed out for any 6DJ8/6922/ECC88/ECC85/6BZ7 types, including NOS, cryo-treated, voodoo-blessed, hand-assembled by elves, etc.
> ...


They work in Valhalla 2. I have a set of RCAs and EH


----------



## orderingrabbits

Is it bad to drive the valhalla to audible distortion with low sensitivity planars?


----------



## cebuboy

Anybody here tried the 6n6p-ir? I know it draws 900ma of current and against Nick T’s advice of using it due to the higher current draw. I’m pairing it with the lower draw of the 5670 series so total would not exceed 2.7a. I find it sounds fuller compared to the various nevz 6n6p I have. I constantly keep watch on the amps temp though. But I noticed it does not run as hot compared to running 6n1p and 6n6p in stock config.


----------



## Jozurr

Does anyone have a *5670/6n3/WE396A to ECC88/6922/6DJ8 *adapter lying around they'd like to sell? Have a 396A tube that I want to try in a 6922 amp


----------



## purehifi192

Jozurr said:


> Does anyone have a *5670/6n3/WE396A to ECC88/6922/6DJ8 *adapter lying around they'd like to sell? Have a 396A tube that I want to try in a 6922 amp


baldr's recommendation is here https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Gold-p...2-6DJ8-tube-adapter-for-you-amp-/191636111735


----------



## tricolor

Hey peeps! Hope all is well...  

Just wanted to share my happy face after a few days listening to Schiit's Valhalla 2 with russian 6N6Ps  and slovakian JJ e88cc's.  I am also using the socket savers. I think they do help keep the tubes cooler, especially from "aesthetics" side,  along of course,  with the temperature. 

Not sure if they will take still a few hours to "sink in" (I have been running them for just a couple of days now) but I am really happy with this combo. Well, not that I have any experience with tubes, but they sound pretty good to my ears right now! 

Cheers!


----------



## Deftone

Holy Schiit the midrange on my 650s now the good lions are in, wow I don’t want to take off my headphones.

Looking to add some socket savers, any degradation in sound quality with them installed?


----------



## cebuboy

Deftone said:


> Holy Schiit the midrange on my 650s now the good lions are in, wow I don’t want to take off my headphones.
> 
> Looking to add some socket savers, any degradation in sound quality with them installed?



I did not notice any changes in sound, the chasis does seem to feel cooler.


----------



## tricolor

hey! i ended up getting the tubemongers. yeah, guess i didn’t want to risk buying off from ebay. ( Had some  no so great experience with cheap stuff before, sadly).  I do not think there is any loss in quality. and for sure, the chassis is pretty cool to touch... it definitely looks nicer! 
cheers!


----------



## Marlowe

cebuboy said:


> I did not notice any changes in sound, the chasis does seem to feel cooler.


Same experience here and, though subjective of course, IMO the amp looks much nicer this way (which was really the reason I got the socket savers). However, since I went to Tung-Sol 2C51 input tubes which require adapters of roughly the same size, I removed the socket servers from all four tubes. Since the Tung-Sols are rather stubby, the power tubes with socket savers looked disproportionately tall; overall it  still looks nicer than stock.


----------



## tricolor

thank you Tony, i got the stickers going... if you pay attention, we can see them... so i might try to trim and make it cover the led only....  but it is interesting option for sure!


----------



## Deftone

Making my way through the thread but is there any benifit in changing the back tall tubes ?


----------



## Deftone

Socket savers come today, really brings the looks of the Valhalla to the next level.


----------



## tricolor

Deftone said:


> Making my way through the thread but is there any benifit in changing the back tall tubes ?



Hmmm, as far as I have been reading... there would not be any major changes in the system... Maybe if you get military grade vs. regular, we might end up with longer running time... but that is just my guess...

Cheers!


----------



## Deftone

tricolor said:


> Hmmm, as far as I have been reading... there would not be any major changes in the system... Maybe if you get military grade vs. regular, we might end up with longer running time... but that is just my guess...
> 
> Cheers!



Thanks, I’m very satisfied with combination of stock and gold lions tubes used right now I don’t think there’s any need to change anything, I can just buy a set of spares from Schiit.


----------



## Deftone

My Valhalla 2 has around 50 hours of run in time and maybe 24 hours each on the stock and the gold lion tubes. 

In comparison to the Genalex i find the stock to have a bigger sound stage and a little brighter, the bass is also a little on the weak side but the soundstage and clarity is impressive just let down by a slight amount of grain. Not bad stock tubes at all to be included in the amp, some people may not need any better. 

Now to the gold lions, there is something special going on with the sound these put out, the midrange with my HD650 is beautiful, really seductive and addictive. They are not as bright as the stock tubes but are still just as clear, more balanced overall. The Genalex have more detail and texture that just makes music sound alive, I find the tubes be so good that I am able to “settle” on them and not even think about trying something else.


----------



## Deftone

My Valhalla has a quiet buzz/hum when I put my ear close, it’s not actually coming through the headphone output. is that normal behaviour for tube amps?


----------



## limelake

Deftone said:


> My Valhalla 2 has around 50 hours of run in time and maybe 24 hours each on the stock and the gold lion tubes.
> 
> In comparison to the Genalex i find the stock to have a bigger sound stage and a little brighter, the bass is also a little on the weak side but the soundstage and clarity is impressive just let down by a slight amount of grain. Not bad stock tubes at all to be included in the amp, some people may not need any better.
> 
> Now to the gold lions, there is something special going on with the sound these put out, the midrange with my HD650 is beautiful, really seductive and addictive. They are not as bright as the stock tubes but are still just as clear, more balanced overall. The Genalex have more detail and texture that just makes music sound alive, I find the tubes be so good that I am able to “settle” on them and not even think about trying something else.


Yep stock tubes really are great ! I have a bunch of different tubes for it. My favorite is 5670's (which require and adapter). JJ's are nice...bass punches really hard with a nice balance on mids and treble. Toshiba's have bass that goes earthquake low...not a huge amount of bass...but still lots and a lovely liquid smooth sound..the tubes are quite microphonic though. Stock tubes are just plain old smooth, perhaps a little bright. 5670's have an amazing 3-D I am there sound stage, with warmth.


----------



## tricolor

Deftone said:


> My Valhalla has a quiet buzz/hum when I put my ear close, it’s not actually coming through the headphone output. is that normal behaviour for tube amps?



hmmmm, have you tried to use a different pair of tubes? i don’t think it is normal... mine is completely silent...
try to hook it up maybe to a different electrical circuit/breaker?

cheers!


----------



## KoshNaranek (Mar 28, 2018)

Deftone said:


> My Valhalla has a quiet buzz/hum when I put my ear close, it’s not actually coming through the headphone output. is that normal behaviour for tube amps?


Valhalla uses an AC heater circuit. A 50 or 60 Hz hum would be the cathode heater ivibrating to that frequency

It is nothing to worry about


----------



## KoshNaranek

KoshNaranek said:


> Valhalla uses an AC heater circuit. A 50 or 60 Hz hum would be the cathode heater ivibrating to that frequency
> 
> It is nothing to worry about


Another possibility is that the transformer windings are a bit noisy. Also nothing to worry about


----------



## Deftone

KoshNaranek said:


> Another possibility is that the transformer windings are a bit noisy. Also nothing to worry about



Ok, good to know. Thanks


----------



## tricolor

Hey folks! I've googled a bit and couldn't find an answer. If I keep the volume "down" when using HIGH gain instead of LOW gain with the Valhalla 2... would I have longer tube life?

I don't mind shortening the lives of my tubes if the quality sounds better, but of course, if I can "extend" it somehow, why not? 

BTW, Dollarama sells "tiny pearl" stickers  that are PERFECT to dim the LEDs..


----------



## Wes S (Apr 12, 2018)

I would not worry, about the volume level in high gain.  If it sounds better, go for it.  I only use my Valhalla 2, in high gain because it has better bass and tames the highs a bit, with my Breyer DT 1770’s, vs.  low gain.  I think tubes get run a lot harder in phono stages and other preamps, and they can still last a long long time, in those.  So I say, run them on high gain, and get a backup pair or two, and you should be set for a long time.


----------



## tricolor

Wes S said:


> I would not worry, about the volume level in high gain.  If it sounds better, go for it.  I only use my Valhalla 2, in high gain because it has better bass and tames the highs a bit, with my Breyer DT 1770’s, vs.  low gain.  I think tubes get run a lot harder in phono stages and other preamps, and they can still last a long long time, in those.  So I say, run them on high gain, and get a backup pair or two, and you should be set for a long time.




Thanks @Wes S, exactly... Life is short and let's enjoy it the most! 

I just got a DT770 250 Ohm and I am loving it... felt the same... High gain "fine" tunes the sound way better than low gain...

Cheers!


----------



## jeffrt (Apr 15, 2018)

I looked thru all 62 pages of this thread over the past week or so; but I don't recall seeing an answer to this. Of course, I could have missed it. 

I know that changing the 6N6P tubes (Power) has much less of an effect than changing the 6N1P tubes (gain stage), and there aren't many alternatives to the 6N6P, but
does anyone know if the ECC99, 12BH7, or the E182CC tubes are valid drop-in substitutes for the 6N6P tube?

At this point, I'm just curious. I just got one and it sounds pretty good so far with the stock tubes.
(FYI I already have several 6922 type tubes to potentially replace the 6N1P, including a Siemens CCA.)

Thanks.


----------



## tricolor

Morning! Hope all is well!!

Here's an older post... I think it won't work... 

Cheers!


Post #286 of 919



Contributor
*rb2013*
*
Author of The 6922 Tube Review
*
*Joined: *Apr 12, 2013
*Posts: *5,930
*Likes: *477

↑
  Bob,

I'm about 99% sure that ECC99 does not have the same pinout as 6N6P. ECC99 and E182CC both have the dual voltage heater. The 6N6P only has 6.3V heater. 

Thus the ECC99 and E182CC have 3 heater pins, one for either end and a center tap. If wired in parallel, they are 6.3C, if series then 12. Please do not just plug in ECC99 to your Val!

The 6N6P tubes use that extra pin for a grounded screen between the two triodes.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice!  I trust you more then that website.  So would those modded socket savers work for the ECC99/12BH7 like the E182CC/7119's.  In other words wire the voltage in parallel (6.3V) not series (12V).  Yes 6Volt heaters don't like to supply 12V's - they tend to complain with smoke and sparks! LOL!



Report
Like+ QuoteReply


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## jeffrt (Apr 16, 2018)

jeffrt said:


> I looked thru all 62 pages of this thread over the past week or so; but I don't recall seeing an answer to this. Of course, I could have missed it.
> 
> I know that changing the 6N6P tubes (Power) has much less of an effect than changing the 6N1P tubes (gain stage), and there aren't many alternatives to the 6N6P, but
> does anyone know if the ECC99, 12BH7, or the E182CC tubes are valid drop-in substitutes for the 6N6P tube?
> ...





tricolor said:


> Morning! Hope all is well!!
> 
> Here's an older post... I think it won't work...
> 
> ...



Thanks a ton, tricolor.
That helps a lot. I was just looking for potential alternatives. Based on your reply, I will not try ECC99s nor E182CC as replacements for the 6N6Ps. I like to keep things simple, not "in flames".


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## xndR_R (Apr 18, 2018)

I've enjoyed my valhalla 2 for a couple of months now and decided I wanted to change my JJ gold pins tubes to 5670 tubes.

On ebay I see alot price difference for the 'Western Electric 396A'. So what is a reasonable price for a matched pair?

And are these worth a try? ebay link


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## tricolor

xndR_R said:


> I've enjoyed my valhalla 2 for a couple of months now and decided I wanted to change my JJ gold pins tubes to 5670 tubes.
> 
> On ebay I see alot price difference for the 'Western Electric 396A'. So what is a reasonable price for a matched pair?
> 
> And are these worth a try? ebay link




Not sure about it but it says equivalent to the Western Electric 396A . that “sounds” pretty vague...  they are quite cheap so if all the specs are compatible, that wouldn’t hurt your wallet at all...  but i would take it with a grain of salt..  . do you have the adapter already?

i know the original western electric, specially the 300B series, they are crazy expensive  but their quality seems to be outstanding!

cheers!


----------



## cebuboy

xndR_R said:


> I've enjoyed my valhalla 2 for a couple of months now and decided I wanted to change my JJ gold pins tubes to 5670 tubes.
> 
> On ebay I see alot price difference for the 'Western Electric 396A'. So what is a reasonable price for a matched pair?
> 
> And are these worth a try? ebay link



Those are late production GE 5670, they work with adapters. There is a reason why them WE396A are expensive.


----------



## limelake

xndR_R said:


> I've enjoyed my valhalla 2 for a couple of months now and decided I wanted to change my JJ gold pins tubes to 5670 tubes.
> 
> On ebay I see alot price difference for the 'Western Electric 396A'. So what is a reasonable price for a matched pair?
> 
> And are these worth a try? ebay link


I would try some 5670's before buying WE396A's to test the flavour of the family. I use 5670's in my Valhalla and my speaker amp. 5670's are a superb tube for the money. YMMV.


----------



## limelake

Just looked at the eBay link. I will double confirm those are ge 5670's for sure. And a very good price.


----------



## cebuboy

Or you can go check out the 6N3P family, proces are still cheap and they are easily available. 

Currently using a ‘75 ref 6N3P-DR, nice and balanced tone.


----------



## Wes S

Nothing compares to the Tung Sol 2c51 and WE396A, if you like amazing bass and huge soundstage, with the best imaging you have ever heard from the Valhalla 2.  3D or holographic are a couple more adjectives. . .


----------



## xndR_R

Thanks everyone for the input! 

The 'Tung Sol 2c51' seems interesting too! I'll check this out.


----------



## Marlowe

Wes S said:


> Nothing compares to the Tung Sol 2c51 and WE396A, if you like amazing bass and huge soundstage, with the best imaging you have ever heard from the Valhalla 2.  3D or holographic are a couple more adjectives. . .


I've been using the Tung-Sol 2C51 tubes for some months and like them very much. They're not really expensive either--about $35/pair on eBay. (Though you do have to factor in adapters on a first time purchase; these cost about $18 for two.)


----------



## jeffrt

_Has anyone tried using 12AU7 or 12 AT7 variants in the place of the 6NiP input tubes?
_
I asked Schiit and the person who replied just quoted from the manual that they could recommend nothing but 6DJ8/6922 variants.

I ask because I have a hybrid amp which uses 9 pin input tubes. I can use any 6DJ8, 12AU7, 12AV7,12AT7, 12AX7 variants. My favorites for this amp are GE 5 star 6829s, Raytheon blackplate 6414s, and Amperex 7062s.


----------



## jeffrt

Regardless of whether or not you believe that cryogenic treatment of tubes helps them or not, I must extend customer service kudos to Cryoset/RonSheldon. I ordered a set of 6N6P tubes from them on Friday, 4/27 and received them in today's mail, Monday 4/30, without paying any extra shipping charges. That's sending them from California to New Jersey pretty damned quickly.


----------



## Erikson2k

Hey guys,
I'm a relatively new Valhalla 2 owner. Driving it with a Bifrost. 
I just wanted to say thanks for all the great posts in this thread. 
I was able to make some guesses as to what I might like to try to I ordered the following from thetubestore.com:

Electro-Harmonix 6CG7 / 6FQ7
Genalex - Gold Lion E88CC / 6922
JSC Voskhod 6N1P-EB

Paid the $5/tube to have them balanced/matched. Not sure if this is required. Do you guys typically go for the matched option, seems it would make sense for this amp, just not sure if it's required.

Thanks,
Erikson


----------



## tricolor

Erikson2k said:


> Hey guys,
> I'm a relatively new Valhalla 2 owner. Driving it with a Bifrost.
> I just wanted to say thanks for all the great posts in this thread.
> I was able to make some guesses as to what I might like to try to I ordered the following from thetubestore.com:
> ...


Congrats on the purchase, I’m considering getting the Gold Lions down the road as well.... for the time being, I am also enjoying the Bifrost and Valhalla 2 combo... but using the JJ E88cc for now...bit cheaper than the gold lions, hehehe, but I’m quite happy...

from the tubestore’s Faq they say it’s not needed for preamp tubes....  but the power tubes require matching..

cheers!


----------



## jeffrt

Erikson2k said:


> Hey guys,
> I'm a relatively new Valhalla 2 owner. Driving it with a Bifrost.
> I just wanted to say thanks for all the great posts in this thread.
> I was able to make some guesses as to what I might like to try to I ordered the following from thetubestore.com:
> ...



Are you using any of these to replace the 6N6P power tubes?


----------



## Erikson2k

Yeah I believe the Electro-Harmonix 6CG7 / 6FQ7 are power tubes.


----------



## KoshNaranek

jeffrt said:


> Are you using any of these to replace the 6N6P power tubes?





Erikson2k said:


> Yeah I believe the Electro-Harmonix 6CG7 / 6FQ7 are power tubes.


Uh, Guys. None of those tubes can be used as power tubes in the Valhalla.

They can all be used as input tubes. The 6cg7 draws 600milliamps and can be used as input tubes on Lyr1 and Valhalla 2 only

Edited for grammar


----------



## jeffrt

KoshNaranek said:


> Uh, Guys. None of those tubes can be used as power tubes in the Valhalla.
> 
> They can all be used as input tubes. The 6cg7 draws 600milliamps and can be used as input tubes on Lyr1 and Valhalla 2 only
> 
> Edited for grammar



To be honest, that's what I thought ... I have yet to find any substitute for the 6N6 power tube.


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## KoshNaranek

jeffrt said:


> To be honest, that's what I thought ... I have yet to find any substitute for the 6N6 power tube.


I don't think there is one. There were two manufacturers of the 6N6. Novosibirsk and another, whose name escapes me


----------



## Erikson2k

KoshNaranek said:


> I don't think there is one. There were two manufacturers of the 6N6. Novosibirsk and another, whose name escapes me



Thanks for clarification. I was thinking the height of the tube was indicative of it's purpose. If you Google image search the "Electro-Harmonix 6CG7 / 6FQ7" it looks like the same shape as the 6N6P.


----------



## jeffrt

KoshNaranek said:


> I don't think there is one. There were two manufacturers of the 6N6. Novosibirsk and another, whose name escapes me



Voskhod??


----------



## cebuboy

For power tubes, nos Fotons sounds good. Not that much change is sound with them power tubes.


----------



## xndR_R

After reading some good reviews about WE 396A and TungSol 2C51 I went for the TungSol.
Today I recieved them and I'm quite happy with the sound! Female voices dont hurt anymore (they did with my JJ gold pins (E88C)) and I feel like I can listen for hours now!


----------



## Erikson2k

xndR_R said:


> After reading some good reviews about WE 396A and TungSol 2C51 I went for the TungSol.
> Today I recieved them and I'm quite happy with the sound! Female voices dont hurt anymore (they did with my JJ gold pins (E88C)) and I feel like I can listen for hours now!



Did you need adapters for those? Also what headphones are you using?


----------



## xndR_R (May 15, 2018)

Erikson2k said:


> Did you need adapters for those? Also what headphones are you using?


Yes, I bought these. Its $15.90 for two pieces.

Sennheiser HD650


----------



## Marlowe

Erikson2k said:


> Did you need adapters for those? Also what headphones are you using?


I'm using the Tung-Sol 2C51s with Sennheiser HD700 and HD6XX. I like them a lot. Yes, you need adapters which I think are only available from Chinese vendors; cheap, but delivery to North America is slow.


----------



## jeffrt

For me the Vahalla, with the stock tubes has a overly tubey, overly bloomy, limited range sound. I tired many version of the 6922/6DJ8 and never got a good sound. I tried the stock 6N1P, cryo'd 6N1P, 6922s, 6DJ8s, 7DJ8s, 7308a, 6N23Ps (Electro Harmonix, JJ, Amperex, Siemens, Brimar ECC88s, etc.)

Finally taking one of the suggestions made here, I tried a 6CG7/6FQ7, a 1950s Tung-Sol. I guess the secret was in the neutrality of the 6SN7 type of sound needed, for my ears, to reduce the excessive bloom and allow the detail and a fuller range of frequency extension to come through to the headphones. Now this sound I can listen to and enjoy thru both Sennheiser and thru Hifiman phones.


----------



## Wes S

Interesting. . .I did not know Hifiman made a high impedance headphone.


----------



## jeffrt

Wes S said:


> Interesting. . .I did not know Hifiman made a high impedance headphone.



I am not sure if you're referring to my post.(You should quote to whichever post you are replying.)
My Hifiman phones, HE400i, have a 30 ohm impedance; not high as far as I know.


----------



## Wes S (May 15, 2018)

jeffrt said:


> I am not sure if you're referring to my post.(You should quote to whichever post you are replying.)
> My Hifiman phones, HE400i, have a 30 ohm impedance; not high as far as I know.[/QUOT



Yep,  I was referring to your post.  Giving impressions of an amp, that is in no way, shape or form, "overly tubey, or overly bloomy", is very misleading to others that are interested in this amp.  First off, this amp was not made for low impedance heaphones and especially Planar's.  Secondly, the stock tubes are not tubey sounding at all.  In fact, I have not heard of a tube, other than the WE 396A, that is even close to having the tubey sound.  The Valhalla is a very neutral and clean sounding amp, and sounds awesome with the right headphones.  This is not a do it all amp, even if it is advertised as such.  If you want do it all, then the Lyr 3 is the Schiit amp to go for.


----------



## adydula

You would be better off with a Vahalla 2 version for these headphones, but even then this amp is not really designed with low impedance headphones in mind.....

Lyr 3 etc..

Alex


----------



## jeffrt

Wes S said:


> Yep,  I was referring to your post.  Giving impressions of an amp, that is in no way, shape or form, "overly tubey, or overly bloomy", is very misleading to others that are interested in this amp.  First off, this amp was not made for low impedance heaphones and especially Planar's.  Secondly, the stock tubes are not tubey sounding at all.  In fact, I have not heard of a tube, other than the WE 396A, that is even close to having the tubey sound.  The Valhalla is a very neutral and clean sounding amp, and sounds awesome with the right headphones.  This is not a do it all amp, even if it is advertised as such.  If you want do it all, then the Lyr 3 is the Schiit amp to go for.



Do you understand the word "impression" or the concept of "subjective"?
How on God's green earth can my OPINION be wrong? I did say, "to my ears". 

Since your opinion differs from mine, I did not call your opinion, "wrong". 

What is wrong with your mind? Is their no room for any opinion or point of view, in this world,  except yours? That is one pretty closed mind.

I like my Valhalla the way it is now. You're entitled to like yours any way you find it good. However, y are NOT entitled to tell me that my opinion is wrong.


----------



## Marlowe

I agree that all this is subjective. In any case, I personally don't really care for the HifiMan 400i through the Valhalla 2 (I'm using stock power tubes and NOS Tung-Sol 2C51s with adapters for the drivers). Although the Valhalla 2 doesn't have a lot of power where the 400i lives, it still drives them to ear splitting volume. But something just sounds off; they sound harsher and more metallic than they should with a better suited amp. The Valhalla 2 does great with my HD700 and HD6XX. I occasionally use the 400i with a Magni 2U for games and it sounds better with that amp (which doesn't do as well with the Sennheisers, particularly the HD700).


----------



## jeffrt

Marlowe said:


> I agree that all this is subjective. In any case, I personally don't really care for the HifiMan 400i through the Valhalla 2 (I'm using stock power tubes and NOS Tung-Sol 2C51s with adapters for the drivers). Although the Valhalla 2 doesn't have a lot of power where the 400i lives, it still drives them to ear splitting volume. But something just sounds off; they sound harsher and more metallic than they should with a better suited amp. The Valhalla 2 does great with my HD700 and HD6XX. I occasionally use the 400i with a Magni 2U for games and it sounds better with that amp (which doesn't do as well with the Sennheisers, particularly the HD700).



Yup, all this is 100% subjective.

I can't with which headphone amp my 400is sound better. I've only had them 1 month and only used them with the Valhalla 2 and with the Massdrop Cavalli CTH.  I have not yet tried it with my original amp, McCormack Micro-headphone amp.


----------



## Wes S (May 17, 2018)

Here is a useful thread, for those that want to know a little more about their OTL tube amps and what type of headphones they are made for - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/otl-amp-and-headphone-impedance-matching-question.702109/

And sure you can get sound to come out with most any headphone. . .but does it sound as good as it could or should?


----------



## Erikson2k

Wes S said:


> Here is a useful thread, for those that want to know a little more about their OTL tube amps and what type of headphones they are made for - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/otl-amp-and-headphone-impedance-matching-question.702109/
> 
> And sure you can get sound to come out with most any headphone. . .but does it sound as good as it could or should?



Thanks for the link, always looking to learn more on this topic!


----------



## jeffrt

Wes S said:


> Here is a useful thread, for those that want to know a little more about their OTL tube amps and what type of headphones they are made for - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/otl-amp-and-headphone-impedance-matching-question.702109/
> 
> And sure you can get sound to come out with most any headphone. . .but does it sound as good as it could or should?



I read this thread and understand why, in theory, the HE400is should not sound as good as they can, with a low power OTL, such as the Valhalla 2. Yet, when I changed the input tubes to 6CG7s/6FQ7s (a 9 pin 6SN7 electrical duplicate), they sounded really good. They sounded different from my Sennheiser HD580 Jubilees, but the HE400is sounded more full range. PLUS I didn't even use the high gain switch.. yet. 

With the Massrop Cavalli CTH  Hybrid amp (6922 input tube with solid state output), the HE400i sounded equally good but slightly more dynamic with greater detail. This is the type of amp I assume you mean to be more appropriate in its power output for the 35 ohm impedance. The Cavalli puts out 1 watt per ch. into 50 ohms.


----------



## Erikson2k

So I ordered the NOS Tung-Sol 2C51s with adapters. Listening to them for the first time now....Definitely changes the music more than any other tubes I've tried to date.

Only thing I'm worried about, is how do you pull the adapters out of the Valhalla2? They sit below the grey grills.

https://imgur.com/gallery/qlhPiu2


----------



## Erikson2k

Wow, these NOS Tung-Sol 2C51s are impressive!

I'm definitely hearing increased clarity in the mids and highs. Instrument isolation seems much apparent. Only downside is they sound a bit hollow, a bit more airy but I guess that's what allows the clarity to come through?

Check out the song "Set You Free" by Sara K. on the Hell or High Water album. 
Two things worth noting.
1. Right at the start there is the sound of what sounds like crickets and bugs, these tubes are bringing those sounds through super clear whereas before I barely noticed it.
2. At 1:33 after she says "_...and when it's just you and me baby_", you can hear what sounds like a childs' voice in the distance for a brief moment, possibly a mastering error. Insane, I've listened to this song like 30 times and never noticed that until today. I actually turned around because I thought someone was in my room making that sound.


----------



## Marlowe

Erikson2k said:


> So I ordered the NOS Tung-Sol 2C51s with adapters. Listening to them for the first time now....Definitely changes the music more than any other tubes I've tried to date.
> 
> Only thing I'm worried about, is how do you pull the adapters out of the Valhalla2? They sit below the grey grills.
> 
> https://imgur.com/gallery/qlhPiu2


TBH, regardless how careful I am removing the tubes, the adapter will usually come out with them. (As did the socket savers that I used before I needed adapters; I just think the amp looks so much better with the tubes sitting up a bit.)  Of course, I am 64 and decrepit--once or twice I did lose the adapter or socket saver inside the amp and had to turn the amp over and play it like those old pre-computer games that you had to tilt this way and that to get a little ball to roll into a hole.


----------



## fianbarr

Erikson2k said:


> I've listened to this song like 30 times and never noticed that until today. I actually turned around because I thought someone was in my room making that sound.


I had that exact feeling the first time I listened to the Waltz for Debby album by Bill Evans on good gear. It was recorded live and there are some audience noises in the background. Scared me the first time I heard that.


----------



## xndR_R

Erikson2k said:


> Wow, these NOS Tung-Sol 2C51s are impressive!
> 
> I'm definitely hearing increased clarity in the mids and highs. Instrument isolation seems much apparent. Only downside is they sound a bit hollow, a bit more airy but I guess that's what allows the clarity to come through?
> 
> ...



What headphones are you using? I've listend 4 times already with my HD650 same tubes and I cant hear the childs voice :O?


----------



## Erikson2k (May 25, 2018)

xndR_R said:


> What headphones are you using? I've listend 4 times already with my HD650 same tubes and I cant hear the childs voice :O?



ZMF Atticus.

EDIT: I just tested with my modded Fostex T50RP and can hear it there as well. So it's likely the version I'm listening to. I'm listening to this track via Google Play

https://play.google.com/music/m/Ta25t2t6pntppk2r5ouhjc4ydam?t=Set_You_Free_-_Sara_K


----------



## Erikson2k

fianbarr said:


> I had that exact feeling the first time I listened to the Waltz for Debby album by Bill Evans on good gear. It was recorded live and there are some audience noises in the background. Scared me the first time I heard that.



Oh nice, I'll check out that album. I'm always looking for interesting new albums to make audio equipment shine.


----------



## Erikson2k

So I have been testing a matched pair of JSC Voskhod 6N1P-EB 

pros:
- Cheap
- Low noise floor, very low

cons:
- A bit cold
- Highs roll off a bit
- Bass is a little subdued

These definitely don't bring out the best of the Valhalla, I can't tell if they are better or worse than the stock 6N1P or not. Might be a good cheap replacement for the stock tubes.


----------



## cebuboy

Check out the 6N3P series, good sound at great value.


----------



## Erikson2k

Really enjoying the Genalex - Gold Lion E88CC / 6922 . Low noise, nice warm sound, rich and detailed BUT they can't beat the NOS Tung-Sol 2C51s .


----------



## zephyrstar

What adapter do you recommend for the 2C51?


----------



## Erikson2k

zephyrstar said:


> What adapter do you recommend for the 2C51?



This badboy right here. Only took 2 weeks to get to Canada. Was a little tricky to get the tubes into the adapter but after a few minutes of careful insertion, it fit fine.


----------



## kumar402

I am enjoying Valhalla 2 with my Z1R in low gain mode. However to make HD 600 enjoyable with Valhalla 2 i have ordered 
JJ E88CC / 6922 Gold Pin. I hope it tames down the hot treble a bit.


----------



## Erikson2k

kumar402 said:


> I am enjoying Valhalla 2 with my Z1R in low gain mode. However to make HD 600 enjoyable with Valhalla 2 i have ordered
> JJ E88CC / 6922 Gold Pin. I hope it tames down the hot treble a bit.



The Hd650's sing with the JJ E88CC / 6922 Gold Pin, I'm sure the 600's are similar.


----------



## Live

anybody know where I can purchase a pair of tung sol 2c51? it looks like the vacuumtubesinc store doesn't stock them anymore.  They do have the JAN philips 2c51, is that comparable to the tung sol?


----------



## kebcy

Hey!

I am planning to buy a Schiit Valhalla 2 for my Beyerdynamic Amiron Home (250Ohm) Headphone. I already own a BursonAudio PLAY headphone amp / dac, but I would love to try out the tube amplifiers as well. Any suggestions what kind of tubes should I buy later for the Valhalla 2? Anybody have here good expressions about this Amiron - Valhalla 2 combo? I wanna try out the tube-rolling method too, so please if somebody can suggest any good tubes, do not hesitate to write down! 

My music taste is kinda mixed. I used to listen rock, metal, jazz, jpop, ambient, post-rock, "new retro wave" music, and so on..

Is it possible to use the BursonAudio PLAY together with the Schiit Valhalla 2?

Thank you the kind answers!

Cheers,
kebcy


----------



## tricolor

Good morning @kebcy , folks! hope all is well and you're all enjoying summer!



kebcy said:


> Hey!
> 
> I am planning to buy a Schiit Valhalla 2 for my Beyerdynamic Amiron Home (250Ohm) Headphone. I already own a BursonAudio PLAY headphone amp / dac, but I would love to try out the tube amplifiers as well. Any suggestions what kind of tubes should I buy later for the Valhalla 2? Anybody have here good expressions about this Amiron - Valhalla 2 combo? I wanna try out the tube-rolling method too, so please if somebody can suggest any good tubes, do not hesitate to write down!
> 
> ...




I can't tell you specifically my impressions with the Amiron Home, but if it might have a similar "profile" as the DT770 250 Ohm... The Valhalla 2 pairs really nice with it.

To be honest, before rolling, I would try out a bit with the stock tubes... they are not bad at all... But yeah, rolling tubes is kind of interesting, so I have  also been playing a bit with different tubes! One thing that I recommend is getting the tube extenders... visually I think it looks nicer with the tubes sticking out a bit of the chassis, and it also helps cool down a bit...

After the stock ones, I got the JJ E88CC and more recently,  the Electro Harmonix 6922EH.  I feel like the bass is a bit more defined with the 6922EH compared to the other 2.  

The cool thing is that all these tubes  are quite affordable too... so it doesn't hurt to try... I am not so sure if I'll bite the bullet one day to explore NOS, as  I believe it's hard to justify hundreds of dollars mostly because it's getting harder and harder to find such tubes... I know the quality MUST be pretty outstanding, but I am also pretty sure the prices are like these mainly because it might be impossible to get them in the future... 


Cheers!


----------



## kebcy

Hey Tricolor!

Thank you the kind answer.

Amiron have a similar sound like a DT880, but hard to write around which is the better, like with my English. I owned a 250ohm version from the DT880, and since I changed to the Amiron, I completly forgot how the DT880 felt on my head. Amiron literally wiped out my mind - and ears 

Of course, I would like to stick to the default ones, but I already searched some on the google for new tubes. Luckily in here, Hungary, we got a music store which sells kinda good tubes ( http://www.elektroncso.hu/lista.php ) where I see some SOVTEKS and other good ones.. so luckily for me would be easy to change them down, tho some of the tubes cost literally a better laptop 

I am looking after some NOS, but actually first of all, I need to get my hands on the Vallhala 

Cheers,
kebcy


----------



## tricolor

Hey! Happy Monday! Hope all is well!



kebcy said:


> Hey Tricolor!
> 
> Thank you the kind answer.
> 
> ...




Right on... I am happy to hear Amiron rocks!!! Hope you find cool tubes at affordable prices...   that's the cool thing about rolling, although the sky is the limit, I am pretty shure that are plenty of GOOD tubes at affordable prices... Even if the GREAT tubes are crazy expensive, I guess we can have fun without breaking the bank...

As far as I have learned from various forums/threads, the preamp tubes are the ones that make the most difference...   to be honest I combine some EQ to fine tune the sound... especially if for instance saxophones/trumpets sound way too harsh... hehe

cheers!


----------



## nanosword (Aug 19, 2018)

...


----------



## bryceu

Recently purchased some Electro-Harmonix 6CG7 Gold Pins from TupeDepot after reading many recommendations for these tubes. After about a week of listening I feel I'm able to give my impressions. 

Listening Setup --> PC -> Spotify Premium -> Modi 2U -> Valhalla 2 -> Focal Elear/HD6xx
Listening to mostly Electronic music as well as some metal and other rock varieties. 

The EH 6CG7 Gold Pins are extremely clear tubes, not adding any tube sound but rather clarifying everything. Resolution and detail are incredible. The highs are very present but in no way too strong. Bass becomes tighter, cleaner, and more punchier, but not an overall increase or decrease. The sound stage is smaller than the stock 6N1P, however the instrument separation is superior due to the increased overall clarity. 

Definitely good tubes for analytic listening or anyone seeking very clear and precise sound. Not for someone looking for euphoric big room sound.


----------



## funch

Saw some references to using 2C51's with adapters. Here is a US source for the adapters. Outstanding quality. (scroll to bottom of page).

http://www.garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_012.htm


----------



## inflames91

For anyone wondering, the E188CC/5678 works as a replacement for 6N6P  
But you'll need a socket converter which you can find off Aliexpress
Using Mullard E188CC


----------



## adydula

Just tried a set of new EH 6922's in my V2 and they work very, very well. These are the gold in versions I found on Ebay for $40.
Great choice for tube upgrade.
Alex


----------



## spyder1

If you are studying the thread, and thinking of purchasing a Valhalla 2, The Schiit website has B-Stock for sale.


----------



## Rattle

Can anyone offer any opinions on a pair of tubes that will bring out a little more weight and lushness to the Valhalla 2. I've not felt the need to change the sound since May but I recently picked up a liquid spark and while the v2 is a better amp I want more of that fun mid range sound and a little more weight if possible. Cans are HD600/HD6xx.


----------



## adydula

I just bought a set of EH 6922's for my Vahalla 2 and I have the HD600's..these gold pin versions made a world of difference listening....and its not a whol lot of money, I got a pair for $44 on ebay..brand new..highly recommended.
Alex


----------



## Rattle

adydula said:


> I just bought a set of EH 6922's for my Vahalla 2 and I have the HD600's..these gold pin versions made a world of difference listening....and its not a whol lot of money, I got a pair for $44 on ebay..brand new..highly recommended.
> Alex



Can you comment on any difference in sound ? What dac do you use ?


----------



## adydula

Sure....I am using a Schitt Bifrost MB dac with the Gen 5 USB connection. I have 9+ amps now!! LOL! 

The Vahalls 2 is number 2/3 on my favorite list....

Adding the EH 6922's (gold Pins) seemed to make the presentation "alive" and more open...I find myself just listening and enjoying.
The music on well recorded stuff is just clear, clean and amazing with HD 600's or T1 or T90 ...

Its the old "like a veil has been removed"...

It makes the amp more resolving IMO...good stuff shines but crap really sucks...YMMV.

Its not that any one part of the freq spectrum is better....its all better in that I can hear the contents and it makes the presentation
come alive and more enjoyable.

Good Luck!
Alex


----------



## Rattle

adydula said:


> Sure....I am using a Schitt Bifrost MB dac with the Gen 5 USB connection. I have 9+ amps now!! LOL!
> 
> The Vahalls 2 is number 2/3 on my favorite list....
> 
> ...



Modi multibit here, can you comment on the mids and maybe lower mid changes ?


----------



## Erikson2k

adydula said:


> Sure....I am using a Schitt Bifrost MB dac with the Gen 5 USB connection. I have 9+ amps now!! LOL!
> 
> The Vahalls 2 is number 2/3 on my favorite list....
> 
> ...


+1 to the 6922 gold tubes, I have the same dac, they really color the tone nicely.


----------



## cebuboy

Rattle said:


> Can anyone offer any opinions on a pair of tubes that will bring out a little more weight and lushness to the Valhalla 2. I've not felt the need to change the sound since May but I recently picked up a liquid spark and while the v2 is a better amp I want more of that fun mid range sound and a little more weight if possible. Cans are HD600/HD6xx.



If you are willing to explore the 6N3/5670 family, vintage Tung-Sol 2C51, WE396A, ‘60s Foton 6N3 with adapters all sound great on the Valhalla 2. A pair of ‘60 Foton 6N6P also makes the low end sound fuller.


----------



## adydula

You can spend so much money chasing vintage tubes and the like.....You really need to look at the circuit and the specific vacuum tube manual and its plots to see if the tube is in its
designed operating "area"..the old school "load lines" plots.....wow...thats showing my age!

Schiit and Bottlehead have said many times its the circuit design that really matters, and tubes while they may play a part in the final presentation its not as much as you think.

But I like others that have grown up up in the golden area of tubes, built  and tested these things for a living for many years.....know that a recent well made tube designed to the origainal
NOS specs can be as good as those crazy mega dollar "vintage" tubes....

That said the EH Gold Pin 6922's IMO sound just great, the bass slam with many recordings with the "right" set of headphones is just spot on and realistic as well as the mids and treble and
entire presentation.

If you want a fuller sounding low and mids you really need to look for a set of headphones that are "colored" or lean in that area.....many choices here that will do what you want much more
than any tube will do...

All the best
Alex


----------



## ZenGentleman

Rattle said:


> Can anyone offer any opinions on a pair of tubes that will bring out a little more weight and lushness to the Valhalla 2. I've not felt the need to change the sound since May but I recently picked up a liquid spark and while the v2 is a better amp I want more of that fun mid range sound and a little more weight if possible. Cans are HD600/HD6xx.


I’ve had the Valhalla 2 for about 2 years now. I’m using it with a Bimby Gen 5 and Senn HD700 and Focal Elear headphones. TBH, I really don’t go back to the Senns much anymore since getting the Elears.

Anyway, my first affordable tube upgrade was to a pair of JJ E88CC Gold Pins from The Tube Store. Affordable and they had a noticeably pleasant impact on mids and lows.

Then I bought a pair of NOS Russian 6N23P-EV tubes on eBay from VivaTubes. Long story short, JJ Gold Pins sounded better in my setup but I felt these sounded better than the stock tubes.

Finally, given the rave reviews of the 396a tubes in the Valhalla 2 (need adapters), I bought some adapters and some NOS Russian 6N3P equivalent tubes but I haven’t taken the time to swap out the JJ’s. I went with the Russian versions because, frankly, the Westinghouse 396a tubes are not cheap, and neither are the c251 equivalents. But if cost were no object, I’d buy the made in the USA adapters listed a few posts above and a pair of 396a tubes for the best performance.


----------



## lesanderson (Oct 25, 2018)

Reporting in as a very happy Valhalla2 owner. I have dabbled with head-fi in the past, but never really got into it as I have had the freedom and luxury of a very good near field system. Anyway, the hd650 hooked me and now I am appreciating great tunes late at night in a full house.

 Rolled in Genalex 6922 up front, these are not a romantic sounding tube at all but they are also never harsh and extremely resolving. I think I will settle on something else as a daily driver but for now I am having a great time.

I am looking forward to following this thread.

Thanks!


----------



## adydula

Wow those are so kool looking!!! I know they work and allow you to have many great listening sessions!!

:>)
Alex


----------



## lesanderson

6c8g meatballs in the Valhalla2 tonight. Monsters!


----------



## mroneto

On a last-minute decision, I ended up ordering the very last B-stock Valhalla 2 from Schiit last week...needless to say, it was quite a step up from the Vali 2 (with a standard EH6CG7) I've been using for the past year or so. 
With the crappy Canadian Dollar exchange rate, I don't think I would have been able to afford it at full MSRP (~$460ish CAD without shipping).
I think it complements the big stack of little Schiit(s) on the desk!


----------



## yangian

lesanderson said:


> 6c8g meatballs in the Valhalla2 tonight. Monsters!



Any comment on the sound of 6c8g? Thanks


----------



## lesanderson

yangian said:


> Any comment on the sound of 6c8g? Thanks



They sound good, but I need a little more time to draw comparisons. Will update.


----------



## malazz123

https://www.ebay.com/itm/264059336849?ul_noapp=true

hello , i found this @ ebay 
will this compatible with valhalla 2 ? 

thanks


----------



## KoshNaranek

malazz123 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/264059336849?ul_noapp=true
> 
> hello , i found this @ ebay
> will this compatible with valhalla 2 ?
> ...


----------



## malazz123

KoshNaranek said:


>



Lol 

thanks KoshNaranek


----------



## GumbyDammit223

KoshNaranek said:


>


Absolutely LOVED B5!


----------



## Ripper2860

New Valhalla 2 owner and wanted to drop in and say hello.  Before I even received my VH2 (used but very well maintained), I ordered a matched pair of Foton triple mica 6N3P input tubes and garage adapters.  Also ordered a matched pair of Foton gold grid 6N6P output tubes.  The sound is wonderfully smooth with bass far more extended than with the stock tubes.  I may have found my end-of-the-line tubes right out of the chute.  Wish I'd been so lucky with Lyr 3.  

Anyhow -- I'll be watching closely and if the tube-rolling bug bites, I'll be ready!!


----------



## FLTWS

Just ordered one myself this AM to try with my HD600/800, lots of reading to do on this thread.
On back order to 1/24, gives me time to read on future rolling.


----------



## EzequielFriscia (Jan 6, 2019)

Urgent question guys to close a deal.
I’m being told by the current owner of a Valhalla 2 that the 6n6p tubes lasted him between 400 and 800 hours.
Is this normal? Further, I n another email, he told me he has been using it as a preamp with the volume maxed out a lot of times. Can this be the reason ?


----------



## tricolor

Urgent question guys to close a deal.
I’m being told by the current owner of a Valhalla 2 that the 6n6p tubes lasted him between 400 and 800 hours.
Is this normal? Further, I n another email, he told me he has been using it as a preamp with the volume maxed out a lot of times. Can this be the reason ?


hey! i’ve been using a valhalla 2 as a headphone amp and a pre amp as well... and i believe it’s been close to a year with the same tubes... sometimes they are on overnight, especially over weekends...  so to be honest i think the tubes will last a good while.... but yeah, i don’t crank it up though.
cheers!


----------



## Ripper2860

That may be the case.  From what I've found it should be at least 2000 hours.


----------



## FLTWS

Who did you obtain the Foton's from?


----------



## KoshNaranek

I have been using my original output tubes for about an hour a day for 3 years. No audible degradation so far. This would put me at about 1000 hours plus.


----------



## EzequielFriscia

KoshNaranek said:


> I have been using my original output tubes for about an hour a day for 3 years. No audible degradation so far. This would put me at about 1000 hours plus.



That’s nice to know. I’m worried about because I’d be using it for everything. So I’d use it let’s say 6 hours a day.


----------



## cebuboy

EzequielFriscia said:


> Urgent question guys to close a deal.
> I’m being told by the current owner of a Valhalla 2 that the 6n6p tubes lasted him between 400 and 800 hours.
> Is this normal? Further, I n another email, he told me he has been using it as a preamp with the volume maxed out a lot of times. Can this be the reason ?



The 6N6P lasts for a good 2000 hours from what I have read, and they are still cheap. You can stock up on them if that gives you peace of mind.


----------



## EzequielFriscia

cebuboy said:


> The 6N6P lasts for a good 2000 hours from what I have read, and they are still cheap. You can stock up on them if that gives you peace of mind.



What’s the best place to get a deal out of them you would say? I search around ordinary sites and they are asking more than Schiit.


----------



## cebuboy

EzequielFriscia said:


> What’s the best place to get a deal out of them you would say? I search around ordinary sites and they are asking more than Schiit.



Check them out on ebay, lots of European sellers.


----------



## EzequielFriscia

cebuboy said:


> Check them out on ebay, lots of European sellers.


Will do! Thanks !


----------



## Ripper2860

EzequielFriscia said:


> What’s the best place to get a deal out of them you would say? I search around ordinary sites and they are asking more than Schiit.



I purchased 4x Foton gold grid 6N6P tubes from form this fellow.  Excellent purchase experience and the tubes received were fully tested and in pristine condition.  Good price, too ...


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-qu...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## EzequielFriscia

Ripper2860 said:


> I purchased 4x Foton gold grid 6N6P tubes from form this fellow.  Excellent purchase experience and the tubes received were fully tested and in pristine condition.  Good price, too ...
> 
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-quad-6N6P-FOTON-TESTED-analog-ECC99-E182CC-DoubleTriode-Lot-4pcs/362444465741?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649



Thanks tons !!


----------



## tricolor

Hey!
Here's another option: tubes-store.com
2 x 6N6P / ECC99 / E182CC tube = $12.84CAD 
Shipping was a bit expensive, BUT still not bad at all (as I live in a remote area). It will be probably cheaper if you're close to any major cities...
Cheers,
Ed


----------



## EzequielFriscia

tricolor said:


> Hey!
> Here's another option: tubes-store.com
> 2 x 6N6P / ECC99 / E182CC tube = $12.84CAD
> Shipping was a bit expensive, BUT still not bad at all (as I live in a remote area). It will be probably cheaper if you're close to any major cities...
> ...



Yeah. I checked on them. No stock. But I’ll keep an eye just in case.


----------



## africanicola

Hi guys, I am finally a Valhalla owner.
For my Hifiman 400i I have chosen this upgrade from the Asgard 2 and first of all I am assembling an appropriate power cable.
But before starting rolling tubes I d like to try some tweaks like the socket saver.
I am a noob, so which kind of socket and materials should I choose?


----------



## FLTWS (Jan 14, 2019)

*EDIT: Wrong picture for lifter*


----------



## africanicola

FLTWS said:


> This is what I use
> 
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/283117591293?ViewItem=&item=283117591293&ppid=PPX000608&cnac=US&rsta=en_US(en_US)&cust=2BG77458E04237322&unptid=29f4fcbe-b0fe-11e8-91cc-441ea1477c68&t=&cal=29ff563916109&calc=29ff563916109&calf=29ff563916109&unp_tpcid=email-receipt-auction-payment&page=main:email&pgrp=main:email&e=op&mchn=em&s=ci&mail=sys


Thanks, but it seems different from the socket. it has 8 pin and also that stuff in the middle


----------



## FLTWS (Jan 14, 2019)

Sorry, your right, those are for my LYR3. I copied the wrong picture. I believe this is what you need.
This is what I use in my MJ2 and will use in Valhalla 2, currently out of stock at Tubemonger but I contacted them yesterday and should be building them and back in stock early Feb

Plug Play NOVIB Socket Saver©-1960s NOS British McMurdo Phenolic socket on Top plus Vibration Reduction Base - 9-pin B9A NOVAL -( NOT MADE IN CHINA) - NEW VERSION






https://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm

I would double check with whoever you order from, these are lifters only not adapters which I also have on order for my Valhalla, gets confusing.


----------



## Ichos

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-9pin-G...385728?hash=item1ee022a500:g:UmwAAOSwgFJa1V70


----------



## FLTWS

Ichos said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-9pin-G...385728?hash=item1ee022a500:g:UmwAAOSwgFJa1V70



Good price.


----------



## tricolor

Welcome to the group!



africanicola said:


> Hi guys, I am finally a Valhalla owner.
> For my Hifiman 400i I have chosen this upgrade from the Asgard 2 and first of all I am assembling an appropriate power cable.
> But before starting rolling tubes I d like to try some tweaks like the socket saver.
> I am a noob, so which kind of socket and materials should I choose?




There are a few older posts talking about socket savers.. I ended up getting mine through tubemonger... thought it wouldn't "hurt" to pay a bit more and minimize the risk of screwing things up down the road BUT, honestly, good old ebay might be a good friend too...   

I am far from an expert myself, but If you're "just" starting... my recommendation is to listen a while with the stock tubes... and the socket savers are "cool" as looks "better" and it helps drop the temperature... so that is a great way to start fine tuning your system...

NOS might be cool avenue, BUT they tend to be more expensive, so you'll get into a rabbit hole... so that might be dangerous.. be aware of that! 

cheers!


----------



## Ichos

FLTWS said:


> Good price.



This are good quality and tested.


----------



## africanicola

tricolor said:


> Welcome to the group!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for your advices, I have just bought the https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-9pin-G...385728?hash=item1ee022a500:g:UmwAAOSwgFJa1V70 so until I will get it I can enjoy the plain Valhalla and hopefully I will hear all the upgrades.


----------



## tricolor

hey! Hope all is well!



africanicola said:


> Thank you very much for your advices, I have just bought the https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-9pin-G...385728?hash=item1ee022a500:g:UmwAAOSwgFJa1V70 so until I will get it I can enjoy the plain Valhalla and hopefully I will hear all the upgrades.



Right on! Maybe Schiit will place the tubes higher up in a future generation, hehe, but in the meantime, it definitely looks nicer with a lil part of the tubes sticking out of the chassis... and also, I do think it helps cool off as well...

Here's an "old", but probably still accurate article:
http://wallofsound.ca/audioreviews/vacuum-tube-shootout-6dj8-types-part-1/

I am currently using the JJ E88CC (new stock), and I am pretty happy. it ain't that expensive either, so that is a great bonus. I might down the road try to find an "affordable" NOS, but for now... I am pretty happy...

cheers!


----------



## africanicola

I am sorry for the noob question, so the jj E88CC are a replacement for the 6N1P, the input tubes?

do you have these with the gold pins? https://www.thetubestore.com/jj-e88cc-6922-gold


----------



## Erikson2k

Are socket savers worth the investment, are they needed?


----------



## judson_w

I find they are helpful when it comes to getting tubes out of the valhalla.  The 6N1P in particular can be a challenge to remove.  Socket savers push them up, and aesthetically, I kind of like seeing more of the tubes.  Aurally, I did not notice a difference, but I also did not expect a change there.


----------



## tricolor

africanicola said:


> I am sorry for the noob question, so the jj E88CC are a replacement for the 6N1P, the input tubes?
> 
> do you have these with the gold pins? https://www.thetubestore.com/jj-e88cc-6922-gold



Yes, and no, hehe. 

I believe they have a slightly different SPEC BUT they can be used as replacement to the stock tubes.

BTW, I got the "regular" JJ's... don't think my "speakers/headphones" and the other devices and therefore, my ears, would allow me to hear a big difference when it comes to the type of "pin"...

I honesty believe in hearing the whole equipment as a "unit", so  I wouldn't waste my money picking minute details unless there are super "reference" devices already in the chain... which is NOT my case... 

Even listening to music for me is something that I love doing as a relax time and not  to "chase"  the holy grail... so I don't really mind imperfections here and there...  I am happy NOT listening via crappy earbuds and/or crappy 10-buck computer speaker,  but that doesn't mean I will never be happy if I do not have a super high end set of speakers and headphones...

cheers!


----------



## tricolor

Hi there!



Erikson2k said:


> Are socket savers worth the investment, are they needed?



I believe they are an "upgrade" in terms of aesthetics and might help cool down a bit the temperature, as there is a larger area of "hot glass" exposed... If you are more worried about "sound" itself as you might be rolling tubes every now and then... it might help too as "access" might be easier as well.. so yeah, it all depends on your own goals...


----------



## Marlowe

I'm not using the Valhalla 2 right now (though I probably will again at some point) but it did indeed run significantly cooler when I used socket savers (like others, primarily for aesthetic reasons) or similarity sized adapters for 2C51 tubes. Frankly, I don't understand why Schiit designed the amp with the tubes so low in the chassis since the amp runs much hotter, the tubes are more difficult to insert/remove (once or twice I ended up with a tube rolling around inside the chassis), and the amp is more attractive with the tubes higher (the last is, of course, entirely subjective, but I gather most agree).


----------



## tricolor

hey folks! hope all is well! Happy Friday!



Marlowe said:


> I'm not using the Valhalla 2 right now (though I probably will again at some point) but it did indeed run significantly cooler when I used socket savers (like others, primarily for aesthetic reasons) or similarity sized adapters for 2C51 tubes. Frankly, I don't understand why Schiit designed the amp with the tubes so low in the chassis since the amp runs much hotter, the tubes are more difficult to insert/remove (once or twice I ended up with a tube rolling around inside the chassis), and the amp is more attractive with the tubes higher (the last is, of course, entirely subjective, but I gather most agree).



Hmmm, I think it might have been one of those "design flaws" that no one really spots until it was too late into production... hehe 

Talking about 2C51... how does an adapter work?  are the tubes only "physically" different and then the adapters "hook up" the right "pins" only? or do they have any components to "convert" voltage/current/capacitance/resistance or whatever is needed to make them compatible?

cheers!


----------



## inflames91 (Jan 19, 2019)

Hey guys!
I have a choice between Telefunken ECC88 and Siemens E88CC.
Which ones would you recommend?
Thanks!


----------



## cebuboy

tricolor said:


> hey folks! hope all is well! Happy Friday!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The pin out is different, the adapter hooks up the right pins


----------



## yangian

Is there anyone has both Jotunheim and V2 and use them to drive HD6XX or 650 can give me some comments on the two amplifiers? Thanks


----------



## cebuboy

yangian said:


> Is there anyone has both Jotunheim and V2 and use them to drive HD6XX or 650 can give me some comments on the two amplifiers? Thanks


I have both, too long to quantify the merits and shortcomings of both. In short, if you want a colder sound with more ooomph on both ends, the Jot it is, if you want warm mids then the Valhalla 2.


----------



## yangian

cebuboy said:


> I have both, too long to quantify the merits and shortcomings of both. In short, if you want a colder sound with more ooomph on both ends, the Jot it is, if you want warm mids then the Valhalla 2.



Oh, thank you so much for these information. I like OTL since it can bring out the largest soundstage of 6xx series. How about the soundstage of Jot. compared to V2? Oh, BTW, hopefully your comparison is from the fully balanced mode from Jot. Thanks!


----------



## cebuboy

yangian said:


> Oh, thank you so much for these information. I like OTL since it can bring out the largest soundstage of 6xx series. How about the soundstage of Jot. compared to V2? Oh, BTW, hopefully your comparison is from the fully balanced mode from Jot. Thanks!



Running it from the balanced out of the jot, although not fully balanced as it is fed from a modi mb. Soundstage from the jot is just so-so, nothing to note about. With the valhalla2 you can go crazy tube rolling. In my experience, if you want it more detailed, the jot can do that, if soundstage and intimacy of vocals, the vallhalla 2 with nos tung sol 2c51 and foton 6n6p is hard to beat, better if you have the we396a.


----------



## yangian

cebuboy said:


> Running it from the balanced out of the jot, although not fully balanced as it is fed from a modi mb. Soundstage from the jot is just so-so, nothing to note about. With the valhalla2 you can go crazy tube rolling. In my experience, if you want it more detailed, the jot can do that, if soundstage and intimacy of vocals, the vallhalla 2 with nos tung sol 2c51 and foton 6n6p is hard to beat, better if you have the we396a.



I see. Thank you very much!


----------



## cv4109

FLTWS said:


> Sorry, your right, those are for my LYR3. I copied the wrong picture. I believe this is what you need.
> This is what I use in my MJ2 and will use in Valhalla 2, currently out of stock at Tubemonger but I contacted them yesterday and should be building them and back in stock early Feb
> 
> Plug Play NOVIB Socket Saver©-1960s NOS British McMurdo Phenolic socket on Top plus Vibration Reduction Base - 9-pin B9A NOVAL -( NOT MADE IN CHINA) - NEW VERSION
> ...



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Folks apologies for the hiccups in the availability of our most popular socket saver. It is back in stock now.

https://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm


----------



## FLTWS

cv4109 said:


> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Folks apologies for the hiccups in the availability of our most popular socket saver. It is back in stock now.
> 
> https://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm



Yep, mine are ordered and shipped.


----------



## Ripper2860

Received my 2.  Very high quality socket savers.  Highly recommended.


----------



## Ripper2860

I'm hoping you fine folks can help me.  I've got a line on a pair of well matched and seemingly good 12AU7 tubes.  My research seems to indicate that the 12AU7 is the lowest gain of the 12A*7 family with a gain factor of 20.  Seems the 6DJ8 and 6N1Ps have a gain factor of 33 and the diff really has me nervous.  Anyone have any 1st hand experience with 12AU7 on the VH2?  If so -- what are your thoughts, pros/cons?  

BTW -- I do have the necessary adapters.

Thanks in advance!!!


----------



## yangian

Ripper2860 said:


> I'm hoping you fine folks can help me.  I've got a line on a pair of well matched and seemingly good 12AU7 tubes.  My research seems to indicate that the 12AU7 is the lowest gain of the 12A*7 family with a gain factor of 20.  Seems the 6DJ8 and 6N1Ps have a gain factor of 33 and the diff really has me nervous.  Anyone have any 1st hand experience with 12AU7 on the VH2?  If so -- what are your thoughts, pros/cons?
> 
> BTW -- I do have the necessary adapters.
> 
> Thanks in advance!!!



I don't think 12AU7 can be used on V2. 12AU7 ..is used for both channels and 6N1P for single channel alone.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 2, 2019)

Hmmm.  I do have a few folks I know running the 12*AT*7's (not *AU*7) on Lyr 2 with adapter instead of the stock 6N1P/6DJ8 driver tubes with no issues.  As far as I know, the only difference between 12AT7 and 12AU7 is the gain factor with AT7 having a higher gain.  I assume if 12AT7 tubes will work as driver tubes on Lyr 2, that they would also work on VH2.  It may be that the adapters account for the fact that it is a dual triode vs single triode and makes the needed electrical compensation.  My concern is will the lower gain of AU7 cause any issues with noise on VH2 (or Lyr 2).

Thanks.


----------



## tricolor (Mar 3, 2019)

hey!
hope all is well!



Ripper2860 said:


> I'm hoping you fine folks can help me.  I've got a line on a pair of well matched and seemingly good 12AU7 tubes.  My research seems to indicate that the 12AU7 is the lowest gain of the 12A*7 family with a gain factor of 20.  Seems the 6DJ8 and 6N1Ps have a gain factor of 33 and the diff really has me nervous.  Anyone have any 1st hand experience with 12AU7 on the VH2?  If so -- what are your thoughts, pros/cons?
> 
> BTW -- I do have the necessary adapters.
> 
> Thanks in advance!!!


hmmm, i don’t have the adapter, but i do have a valhalla 2 along with an  amp  that uses  12at7 and also  12ax7’s
and i actually prefer using it with a lower gain.... no noises at all... (I don’t listen to loud music, usually..  if so, kudos to headphones!


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 4, 2019)

Well, I have my 12AU7 adapters in hand and a couple of CIFTE 12AU7WA triple mica solid plates on their way to me. Fingers-crossed that they will blow me away!!


----------



## FLTWS

Which adapters do you using with those 12AU7's and Valhalla 2? I have several, may already have a pair of adapters  for it and I do have 8 or so matched pairs of 12AU7 I use in my Rogue RH-5 including Cifte's.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 4, 2019)

FLTWS said:


> Which adapters do you using with those 12AU7's and Valhalla 2? I have several, may already have a pair of adapters  for it and I do have 8 or so matched pairs of 12AU7 I use in my Rogue RH-5 including Cifte's.



I'll be using these these adapters...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-ECC83-12AX7-12AU7-To-6N2-6N6-6DJ8-Vacuum-Tube-Amp-Convert-Socket-Adapter/283129866984?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## FLTWS

Figures, I don't have "that" one. Just ordered 4, Thanks


----------



## Ripper2860

Well, the CIFTEs are quite nice.  Very nice, open soundstage with nice bottom-end and open airy highs.  Mids are very nice.  And they are super quiet and refined.  They are my favorite so far in VH2 -- making the very good sounding Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8s sound a bit grainy on the top end.

Not knowing how to leave well enough alone, I now have a pair of Mullard CV-4003's set to arrive tomorrow.  They are supposed to be a bit tubier and warmer with mids being their claim to fame.  One owner stated that with the right piece of music the heavens will open up!!   It'll be interesting to see if they do in-fact deliver a near religious experience with VH2!!  I'll post with an update soon.


----------



## tricolor

Hey! Hope you all are having a great weekend! 

Anyone around running JAN Philips 6922's? Just got them in the mail... It's my first "NOS" that's kind of microphonic... 
I like it, it doesn't bother me... (yeah, I don't plan of vibrating/knocking the top of Valhalla 2...  so I guess I'll be Ok... 

Cheers!


----------



## Robert Padgett

Ripper2860 said:


> Well, the CIFTEs are quite nice.  --snip--
> Not knowing how to leave well enough alone, I now have a pair of Mullard CV-4003's set to arrive tomorrow.  They are supposed to be a bit tubier and warmer with mids being their claim to fame.  One owner stated that with the right piece of music the heavens will open up!!   It'll be interesting to see if they do in-fact deliver a near religious experience with VH2!!  I'll post with an update soon.



I see that was several days, I was wondering how they sounded? This assuming you are still in this dimension...  

I seem to be having repeated near-Religious experiences - by listening to lots of familiar recordings, for the first time. 

With the Valhalla 2 and these 1950s Tung-Sol 6SN7GT tubes, I am hearing layers of detail in 16/44 FLAC files that despite having listened to them hundreds of times, I am hearing them for the first time.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 30, 2019)

Follow-up:  Well, the Mullard CV-4003s have not left my VH2 since their installation.  The mids are lush and they impart a a great sense of detail and layers.  This is not to say that they are lacking on bottom-end, high-end, or soundstage, but given mids are where most of the music is at, this is what  really sets them apart.  They do impart a welcomed bit of warmth and tubeyness to the rather neutral, almost SS-like sound of VH2.  A must if your thing is classical, acoustic instruments, and vocals.

Next up -- who knows.  Oh. there will be a next up -- just haven't sorted through what that may be.


----------



## yangian

Robert Padgett said:


> I see that was several days, I was wondering how they sounded? This assuming you are still in this dimension...
> 
> I seem to be having repeated near-Religious experiences - by listening to lots of familiar recordings, for the first time.
> 
> With the Valhalla 2 and these 1950s Tung-Sol 6SN7GT tubes, I am hearing layers of detail in 16/44 FLAC files that despite having listened to them hundreds of times, I am hearing them for the first time.



Are 6SN7GTs driver tubes or power tubes? Thanks


----------



## Robert Padgett

yangian said:


> Are 6SN7GTs driver tubes or power tubes? Thanks



Driver tubes, the power are 6N6P tubes.


----------



## yangian

Robert Padgett said:


> Driver tubes, the power are 6N6P tubes.



What kind of adapters are they need?


----------



## Robert Padgett (Apr 6, 2019)

yangian said:


> What kind of adapters are they need?


The tubes are nine pins. The 6SN7 required an adapter a number of choices listed here earlier. You need 6SN7 to 6922. And you will need two socket savers for each to get the adapter to fit. I put socket savers on the 6N6 power tubes to get them up and out of the interior, as a result, everything runs much cooler and the case is barely warm.

Update: I received another pair of 9-pin socket-savers and used them under the power tubes. Now all four tubes are above the surface of the Valhalla 2 and are air-cooled in the room. The metal top of the VH2 is slightly warm, but nowhere near the heat generated with the tubes down in the interior of the chassis. I also used 11mm rubber o-ring between all connections, which may help with vibration, and covers the exposed pins.


----------



## Robert Padgett

I am going out on a limb here, but I have been playing around with mismatched pairs of the single 6SN7 tubes I had for the Vali 2, in the Valhalla 2. I have not mixed types (6922 and 6sn7) but have not found much, if any, of a difference between the right and left channels in Headphones. 

I understand "matched pairs" are preferred, but maybe my ears aren't discerning enough to know the difference. I hope I am not doing anything "wrong" but a weird mix of a Sovtek 6H8C and a new production JJ 6SN7GT sounded pretty good.


----------



## lesanderson

Haven't posted in a while, haven't been listening as much as I would like but getting some good time in tonight. I really LOVE the Golden Lion 6922, out of all the tubes I have played with I feel like it is the best compromise between sound, price, availability and reliability. It is flat out an amazing tube.

However, I come back to these radical RCA 6c8g, they have much lower gain, but the mid-range is undeniably to die for. I do think they lose some dynamics, but Springstein right now sounds so good that I prompted me to write this. 

Certainly a fun tube to have around!


----------



## Erikson2k

What are you guys listening to with these tubes?

I almost exclusively using my HD6XX now. Such a solid pairing.


----------



## lesanderson

Me too. 650s, one of the best purchases I have ever made.


----------



## Robert Padgett

I am very pleased with the performance of the Massdrop/Sennheiser 6XX when paired with some Oct. 1951 FOTON ribbed plate 6H8C valves. From Jazz to EDM, from Classical to Female Vocals, I could be no happier than with the VH2/6XX combo. 
My speakers system of 1975 Advent Large Loudspeakers and the PSAudio Sprout100 sounds best when the VH2 is the tube buffer, at Max volume and High Gain, and the volume is adjusted with the Sprout100 remote.


----------



## Robert Padgett (Apr 13, 2019)

Ripper2860 said:


> Follow-up:  Well, the Mullard CV-4003s have not left my VH2 since their installation.  The mids are lush and they impart a a great sense of detail and layers.  This is not to say that they are lacking on bottom-end, high-end, or soundstage, but given mids are where most of the music is at, this is what  really sets them apart.  They do impart a welcomed bit of warmth and tubeyness to the rather neutral, almost SS-like sound of VH2.  A must if your thing is classical, acoustic instruments, and vocals.
> 
> Next up -- who knows.  Oh. there will be a next up -- just haven't sorted through what that may be.



Good information. Those Mullards are a bit out of my budget, but if I should find a pair used--I will want to give them a try.


----------



## Robert Padgett

Kunzel & Cincinnati Pops, "Tchaikovsky_1812 Overture" plays very well with Soviet-era 6H8C ribbed-plate Fotons (X-51, October, 1951) on the Valhalla 2 HP amp into Sennheiser 6XX HP with a custom Cablesforless.Com braided set of replacement cables.

Russian tubes playing Russian Classical on a Sunday Morning, a fresh cup of hot coffee, and let's just close our eyes, and be engaged by Music, unlike any other time we can recall...


----------



## Ripper2860 (Apr 14, 2019)

The Mullards are receiving a much deserved break as I try out a pair of Tungsram 12AU7A tubes in Valhalla 2.  It's early in the process, but they do show promise.  Although not at the Mullard CV4003 or CIFTE level sound-wise, they are also not in the Mullard CV4003/CIFTYE 12AU7WAH price strata either.  Initial listening revealed a more congested and and closed-in midrange than the CIFTE and Mullard, but the Mullard CV4003's mids are renown and absolutely glorious, so its really not fair to compare.  The Tungsrams' mids are not terrible, just a bit claustrophobic.

Well, today is a bit of a different story.  After approx. 16 hours of listening to music, the mids have opened up quite a bit and it is now imparting a rather relaxed and balanced sound.  More time will tell the full story, but while it is not CIFTE or Mullard-like, it is certainly nice enough to say its a keeper -- especially at the price.


----------



## Robert Padgett

Ripper2860 said:


> The Mullards are receiving a much deserved break as I try out a pair of Tungsram 12AU7A tubes in Valhalla 2.  --snip--
> Well, today is a bit of a different story.  After approx. 16 hours of listening to music, the mids have opened up quite a bit and it is now imparting a rather relaxed and balanced sound.  More time will tell the full story, but while it is not CIFTE or Mullard-like, it is certainly nice enough to say its a keeper -- especially at the price.



Would these be similar to what you are listening to?

www.vivatubes.com/true-nos-gain-gm-matched-pair-2-tungsram-hungary-12au7-ecc82-vacuum-tubes


----------



## Ripper2860 (Apr 14, 2019)

I don't think so.  That's a GE -- maybe an incorrect picture?.  Here's what I'm talking about...

https://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/tungsram-ecc82-12au7

My price was not that high, however, but use that image and box as a guide.  And you will need an adapter -- not native to VH2.

Here's a pair on eBay.  No measurements and don't know anything about the seller. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Vintag...830124?hash=item1eea97b6ac:g:hBoAAOSwCaBbn6bl


----------



## Robert Padgett

Ripper2860 said:


> I don't think so.  That's a GE -- maybe an incorrect picture?.  Here's what I'm talking about...
> 
> https://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/tungsram-ecc82-12au7
> 
> ...



This what Vivatubes said:

Get yours now before they're all gone. It's nearly impossible to find such a stash of NOS European tubes these days! These are beautiful Tungsram of Hungary 12AU7 tubes. You dont see these everyday  most people are familiar with Amperex and Mullard but these Tungsram tubes are outstanding. Beautiful warmth and clarity, one of the most under-rated tubes on the planet  and that may just be because theyre rare. Short Gray Plates with Dual Getter supports. _*These tubes were labeled for GE and are marked made in Holland, but they aren't Amperex tubes. The small foil square welded to the plates or getter post is a giveaway that they were made by Tungsram*_. These came from a bulk-pack and are absolutely NOS. They test quite high! We tested and/or matched them on a Maxi-Matcher Preamp tester for both Gain and Gm. Even though they didnt come to us with boxes, we gave them white boxes with the test data written on top.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Erikson2k said:


> What are you guys listening to with these tubes?
> 
> I almost exclusively using my HD6XX now. Such a solid pairing.





lesanderson said:


> Me too. 650s, one of the best purchases I have ever made.



I went the Massdrop route. Apparently, @jude considers the Massdrop HD6xx almost identical to a stock Sennheisser HD650. I'd agree. The 650s are a dandy pair of cans._ My only issue with them is that the tunes bleed out out irritate my spouse. Ah well_. One note: after about a year of indoor use, my jack started to short out due to cable-flexing. Massdrop promptly gave me a credit to purchase a replacement cable. I picked up a 100% original Senheisser part. And now use a 90 degree adapter to prevent any tension on the jack. Meh.

@lesanderson ... I agree with you. It's a fantastic purchase. Unfortunately, I gather InnerFidelity (2017 post) found the next generation of Sennheiser cans not as good as the HD6xx series. Pity.
@Erikson2k ... you're rocking a Valhalla2, right? It might be an unfair comparison, have you compared it to a modded-out (socket-saver + adapter + 6SN7 tube [Slovakian, current production, JJ Electronics Ltd.]) Vali2? Strictly curious...


----------



## Ripper2860 (Apr 15, 2019)

Robert Padgett said:


> This what Vivatubes said:
> 
> Get yours now before they're all gone. It's nearly impossible to find such a stash of NOS European tubes these days! These are beautiful Tungsram of Hungary 12AU7 tubes. You dont see these everyday  most people are familiar with Amperex and Mullard but these Tungsram tubes are outstanding. Beautiful warmth and clarity, one of the most under-rated tubes on the planet  and that may just be because theyre rare. Short Gray Plates with Dual Getter supports. _*These tubes were labeled for GE and are marked made in Holland, but they aren't Amperex tubes. The small foil square welded to the plates or getter post is a giveaway that they were made by Tungsram*_. These came from a bulk-pack and are absolutely NOS. They test quite high! We tested and/or matched them on a Maxi-Matcher Preamp tester for both Gain and Gm. Even though they didnt come to us with boxes, we gave them white boxes with the test data written on top.



Well there you have it.


----------



## Erikson2k

ScubaMan2017 said:


> @Erikson2k ... you're rocking a Valhalla2, right? It might be an unfair comparison, have you compared it to a modded-out (socket-saver + adapter + 6SN7 tube [Slovakian, current production, JJ Electronics Ltd.]) Vali2? Strictly curious...



Yup, Vallhalla 2 with Bimby, have not tried the 6SN7.


----------



## Robert Padgett (Apr 15, 2019)

Erikson2k said:


> Yup, Valhalla 2 with Bimby, have not tried the 6SN7.



You will need two socket-savers for each 6SN7 adapters to work on the Valhalla 2, and a pair of 6SN7GT tubes will dwarf the 6N6P power tubes behind them. I also found that two-socket savers will get the power tubes up and out of the chassis, and will result in cooler operation, as no heat is being trapped within. Elevation of the actual sockets to a height closer to the surface would have been nice, but socket-savers are directly wired, so no worries about using two.


----------



## Krusnik (Apr 17, 2019)

Good morning everyone, I've been lurking the thread for months researching which tubes to go with. I've been a VH2 owner for about a month. I replaced the front tubes with some gold lions for the time being. Big on pc gaming, with that said I am big on atmospheric music in mmos. What power tubes and front tubes would ya'll recommend? I bought two adapters that was linked on prev. posts and 4 risers.  The mmos are  wow,swtor and eso. Thank you guys for all the information and time.


----------



## Krusnik

Do you have a link to those tubes and adapters by chance?


Robert Padgett said:


> You will need two socket-savers for each 6SN7 adapters to work on the Valhalla 2, and a pair of 6SN7GT tubes will dwarf the 6N6P power tubes behind them. I also found that two-socket savers will get the power tubes up and out of the chassis, and will result in cooler operation, as no heat is being trapped within. Elevation of the actual sockets to a height closer to the surface would have been nice, but socket-savers are directly wired, so no worries about using two.


----------



## Robert Padgett

Krusnik said:


> Good morning everyone, I've been lurking the thread for months researching which tubes to go with. I've been a VH2 owner for about a month. I replaced the front tubes with some gold lions for the time being. Big on pc gaming, with that said I am big on atmospheric music in mmos. What power tubes and front tubes would ya'll recommend? I bought two adapters that was linked on prev. posts and 4 risers.  The mmos are  wow,swtor and eso



Power tubes are power tubes, in the Valhalla 2, they are 6N6P and those are stock Russian tubes which really do no effect or affect the music quite as much as the front driver tubes. No need to roll these.
Since I am over 60 years old, I have no earthly idea what you are saying with this, " The mmos are wow,swtor and eso" --but if you purchased adapters that go from 6SN7 to 6922 I would recommend some used, US-made valves from the 1950s like Tung-Sol and Sylvania. 
If you are wanting to not have to use an adapter, then the 6CG7 (RCA Clear-tops) are highly regarded as are European 6922-type tubes from Mullard, and Amperex.
When I purchased my Valhalla 2, the best advice given to me was to use the stock tubes provided by Schiit until you get a feel for what the "stock" sound is, then roll the driver tubes. If you hear a difference, which sounds better to you--then keep those tubes in place, and enjoy.

No need to buy matched pairs-- I have found that two Tung-Sol tubes sound great together, my only caution would be to keep within a type (6SN7 or 6922) I have not tried a 6922 in the left and a 6SN7 in the right-- or vice-versa.
Based on my experience, I have twice bought three 6SN7 for $10 off eBay which were sold as "used, test good" and they worked great. 
At the early going, don't get suckered into "Platinum-matched NOS" because that only means you paid too much...and you may not hear any difference at all.
Your Mileage May Vary and trust YOUR ears, not what somebody has written about a "legendary Tube" that you Must Have!


----------



## Robert Padgett

Krusnik said:


> Do you have a link to those tubes and adapters by chance?



go to eBay and search "Good used 6SN7GT tubes" and "6SN7 to 6922 adapters" Russian tubes from Russia will take several weeks to arrive, so maybe start with domestic vendors, and the adapters can be purchased from TubeDepot.Com. Vivatubes.com is a good vendor of the tested, and quality used tubes. 
I have only really felt like I got skunked on a pair of Ken-Rad tubes with rusty metal bases, for $15 which were microphonic--they rang like Tubular Bells when you tapped them with a pencil. 
That is why I will not recommend eBay vendors by name. There will be several folks who trade tubes, who might offer you some good deals--it is just the good side of this hobby. 
You will see the folks talking tubes, and they will answer your "newcomer" questions, so don't be afraid to ask. Welcome, I love my Valhalla 2.


----------



## tricolor (Apr 17, 2019)

Welcome @Krusnik ! I totally agree with @Robert Padgett... trust your ears before  going into a rabbit hole... 

Some of the changes are quite subtle... so we gotta balance out if we  NEED to spend our $$$ vs. will I really hear the difference?

I love my Valhalla 2 and I am currently using it with my Grado GS1000i, but also as a preamp to a 2-channel speaker setup.

Right now, I got some NOS JAN Philips 6922 going... I enjoy the sound of them... and yeah, it does feel a bit "warmer" than the stock tubes and they are not crazy expensive  either.. BUT at least my tubes are quite microphonic...

(But as there is not vibration going  on my desk, I do not think it messes up the sound...  Yeah, if I poke them, I will hear on the speakers/headphones... but nothing while simply listening  to regular music... 

I got my socket savers from tubemonger... as I read a few reviews about their quality, though I am sure e-bay ones  might be just as good... I highly recommend them as it raises the tubes from the chassis, so, yeah, they look cool AND COOLER, hehe (temperature wise and aesthetically... 

Visually, I am not sure if I would use "gigantic looking" tubes with the Valhalla 2... but that's only my humble opinion...  so I would stick to 6922's... and the "regular" 6N6P power tubes...

cheers!


----------



## Robert Padgett (Apr 17, 2019)

tricolor said:


> Welcome @Krusnik ! I totally agree with @Robert Padgett... trust your ears before  going into a rabbit hole...
> 
> Some of the changes are quite subtle... so we gotta balance out if we  NEED to spend our $$$ vs. will I really hear the difference?
> 
> ...



I have to admit, those 6SN7 tubes tower over the 6N6P tubes and look like the whole thing will tip-over. I just like the sound of the larger plates and larger glass envelope.

But, after reading this, I pulled out the 6N1P stock tubes, and have been really enjoying that sound for a change. I was in such a hurry to get my 1951 Foton 6H8C tubes into use, that I passed over the stock tubes. My mistake. These are Voskhod 6N1P which sell for about $25 a pair, and I think they are quite good.

I have promised to buy a pair of Holland-made 6922 from a Head-Fier and I am looking at a pair of clear top 6CG7 by RCA, which are still pretty reasonable.

One thing is for certain, getting the tubes up and in the room air circulation has the VH2 running as cool as my Sprout100 (which they say that normal is warm to the touch).


----------



## Krusnik

Thank you guys for preventing me from jumping into the rabbit hole. I did that with the reddit keyboard artisan keycap community and it wasn't pretty lol. I'm running the stack with the hifiman4xx. I just want like the warmth and 3d layers on the orchestrated music to hear every detail whereas my astro a50 just doesnt feel the same with my open end headphones.


----------



## Krusnik

I'm also waiting for a bifrost mb to go on bstock lol


----------



## Robert Padgett

On my magazine page, I published this. Rather than flooding the thread with my prose, you can read it, if you desire, ignore it, either way, I just have come to a new realization...


www.facebook.com/notes/affordable-audiophile/keep-it-stock-stupid/2263963527256938/


----------



## Krusnik

Excellent article! 


Robert Padgett said:


> On my magazine page, I published this. Rather than flooding the thread with my prose, you can read it, if you desire, ignore it, either way, I just have come to a new realization...
> 
> 
> www.facebook.com/notes/affordable-audiophile/keep-it-stock-stupid/2263963527256938/


----------



## tricolor

Robert Padgett said:


> On my magazine page, I published this. Rather than flooding the thread with my prose, you can read it, if you desire, ignore it, either way, I just have come to a new realization...
> 
> 
> www.facebook.com/notes/affordable-audiophile/keep-it-stock-stupid/2263963527256938/



Perfect indeed! 

My apologies to all of you who won't be bothered by the difference in SIZES of the tubes... hehe     I didn't mean to bash at all...   It is just my humble opinion and I do care as much as for the looks  as for the sound, hehe. 

So, yeah, IF I find another tube that might fit both the sound AND aesthetics... I'd give it a try, especially if the piggy bank will survive the fall... BUT yeah, I do prefer to keep it simple as well and I will not start chasing crazy expensive NOS... especially that I am quite sure neither my equipment nor my EARS will resolve the subtle difference:  new production and affordable tubes I think can be just as rewarding as long as they  bring a smile to my face...  and they do! 

Happy long weekend!  And Happy Easter to those who celebrate Easter!


----------



## Robert Padgett

tricolor said:


> Perfect indeed!
> 
> My apologies to all of you who won't be bothered by the difference in SIZES of the tubes... hehe     I didn't mean to bash at all...   It is just my humble opinion and I do care as much as for the looks  as for the sound, hehe.
> 
> ...




I didn't feel bashed... I am having too much fun listening to these "new" tubes, with my 6XX HPs and Pink Floyd, "Atom Heart Mother". Imagine for a moment the Joy when you find a true Diamond tube 'in the rough'. For little money with a HUGE sound..


----------



## Robert Padgett

Stock Schiit tubes from the Valhalla 2, note that two socket savers get the hot running Russians from building up heat within the chassis of the amplifier. While I can feel heat rising, when I hold my hand over the tops, the metal surrounding the tubes is only slightly warm, certainly not 'Hot' to the touch. 
I feel that entrapped heat will in the long-run do damage to the circuits, and any electronics which generate heat, are best served by running cool as possible. 
www.facebook.com/notes/affordable-audiophile/keep-it-stock-stupid/2263963527256938/


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Robert Padgett said:


> Stock Schiit tubes from the Valhalla 2, note that two socket savers get the hot running Russians from building up heat within the chassis of the amplifier. While I can feel heat rising, when I hold my hand over the tops, the metal surrounding the tubes is only slightly warm, certainly not 'Hot' to the touch.
> I feel that entrapped heat will in the long-run do damage to the circuits, and any electronics which generate heat, are best served by running cool as possible.
> www.facebook.com/notes/affordable-audiophile/keep-it-stock-stupid/2263963527256938/


Re: image. You're using a time-lapse feature on your camera phone, right? My Slovakian-made JJ 6SN7 sounds fantastic; however, it's got a piddly glow. Tsk...


----------



## Robert Padgett

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Re: image. You're using a time-lapse feature on your camera phone, right? My Slovakian-made JJ 6SN7 sounds fantastic; however, it's got a piddly glow. Tsk...


You are partially correct. It is a Sony NEX-6 with a vintage Hexanon 28mm f/3.5 prime lens, on a tripod. I use the remote commander to fire the shutter, and the exposure time is several seconds to get the bright amber glow.This is my JJ-Electronic 6SN7 with a little time exposure.


----------



## tricolor

@Robert Padgett, nice shots... It's quite cool and interesting to see lots of photographers who are also audiophiles... I love music and photography too!

Vintage lenses are awesome and they add a cool character as well...probably similar to tube amps...   I am currently shooting with a sony A7riii, but have been using lots of old lenses, especially  nikkor & pentax. I love it! 

Just recently got hold of a russian krasnogorsk 16mm lens from the 80's, completely NOS! Out of probably some storage place...   it ain't "sharp", hehe, but its fun to play with...

cheers!


----------



## Krusnik

Which risers are you using?


----------



## Robert Padgett (Apr 22, 2019)

www.tubedepot.com/products/9-pin-socket-saver  $2.49 plus $3.50 shipping they will arrive in three days.
You might as well go ahead and buy Nine-- one for the Vali 2 and _*eight *_for the Valhalla.
I bought mine piecemeal, paid almost as much in shipping as socket-savers-- if someone had told me this, both time and money would have been saved.
If you buy from Hong Kong--they are the same except it will be up to 21-days in transit.
@Krusnik  to get them out of the chassis, two stacked gets the job done...now you see why I bought so many


----------



## tricolor

Krusnik said:


> Which risers are you using?


Mine’s are from tubemonger. The quality is pretty good. I didn’t wanna risk buying a cheapo and potentially questionable quality ones from ebay BUT i’m sure it could  be also an awesome solution as well...

I’m using one per socket... didn’t feel like needing to double stack them... I’m quite happy with the way they look... and mostly happy that the chassis ain’t crazy hot either...

cheers


----------



## Robert Padgett

tricolor said:


> @Robert Padgett, nice shots... It's quite cool and interesting to see lots of photographers who are also audiophiles... I love music and photography too!
> 
> Vintage lenses are awesome and they add a cool character as well...probably similar to tube amps...   I am currently shooting with a sony A7riii, but have been using lots of old lenses, especially  Nikkor & Pentax. I love it!
> 
> ...


I came across a stash of vintage Hexanon primes for real cheap. Found them sharp, contrasty, and very little use. The lenses were great, the Konica Auto-Reflex SLR looked clunky, sounded clunky and looks like it was designed by Russian, not Japanese---needless to say, the cameras never showed the quality of the glass--but with mirrorless and adapters, they finally get their one shining Moment...


----------



## Robert Padgett (Apr 22, 2019)

tricolor said:


> Mine’s are from tubemonger. The quality is pretty good. I didn’t wanna risk buying a cheapo and potentially questionable quality ones from ebay BUT i’m sure it could  be also an awesome solution as well...
> 
> I’m using one per socket... didn’t feel like needing to double stack them... I’m quite happy with the way they look... and mostly happy that the chassis ain’t crazy hot either...
> 
> cheers


The ones on eBay and Tubedepot are all made by the same guy, xulingmrs on eBay, all are of equal quality. Tubemonger sells an enhanced socket saver that includes vibration protection but at 10x the cost. I solved microphonic vibrations by buying a bag of 11mm nitril o-rings and put them around the pins of the tube or adapter. It seals the connection and any vibration may be dissapatedby the rubber. 20- cost $5 with free shipping.


----------



## Krusnik

Oh I didnt know you could stack them. Putting them in was tricky


----------



## GumbyDammit223

Robert Padgett said:


> www.tubedepot.com/products/9-pin-socket-saver  $2.49 plus $3.50 shipping they will arrive in three days.
> You might as well go ahead and buy 5-- one for the Vali 2 and four for the Valhalla.
> I bought mine piecemeal, paid almost as much in shipping as socket-savers-- if someone had told me this, both time and money would have been saved.
> If you buy from Hong Kong--they are the same except it will be up to 21-days in transit.



I would jump on this!  I got mine from ebay for about the same price but had to clean up the soldering job on two of the four units to get them to work.  A very inexpensive (not cheap) way to lower the temp of the amplifier and allow easy tube changes.


----------



## Robert Padgett

GumbyDammit223 said:


> I would jump on this!  I got mine from ebay for about the same price but had to clean up the soldering job on two of the four units to get them to work.  A very inexpensive (not cheap) way to lower the temp of the amplifier and allow easy tube changes.


It would be nice if a 1.5 socket saver were available that would be 1.5 high, or flush with the grill on Valhalla 2. The two are stable, but a bit wobbly when you are changing tubes..you have to re-seat them before putting in a new tube, small problems...


----------



## Mikis76 (Apr 23, 2019)

Greetings from Finland! I just ordered the Reflektor 6N3P-E from eBay and was wondering that are there much quality differences with the adapters for the Valhalla 2? Which ones should I buy?


----------



## Ripper2860 (Apr 23, 2019)

Greeting and welcome to the club.  I'm confident you will absolutely love your rolling tubes in your VH2 amp.

As far as 6N3 adapters go, I use the Garage1217 adapter.  It's not the cheapest, but it is the highest quality adapter for use with 6N3P tubes with VH2.  You can purchase straight form their site, or via their eBay store.  

Here's the eBay link ...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/GARAGE1217...508696?hash=item3b29b09498:g:-PYAAOSwOyJX-nehI

Here's the store link (bottom of the page) ...

http://www.garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_012.htm

You may find other adapters from China (Suzier is a great Chinese company and I do buy from them, as well), but when it came time to roll out the 6N1Ps and drop in a set of Foton triple mica 6N3Ps, the Garage adapter was my choice.

Enjoy the music and have fun!!!


----------



## Mikis76

Hello Ripper2860, and than You for Your input 
I´m afraid that the Garage1217 adapters are a bit over my budget; that´s 70 dollars + taxes to Finland.
I got these instead for the same cost:

Adapters for 6N3
E88CC for rolling rollin rolling even more.

It seems that I´m getting more "rolled" with the Valhalla 2 than I did with the Little Dot MK III 

Cheers to ALL of You guys, this is remarkable site for getting information!


----------



## tricolor

Good morning @Robert Padgett  and folks! Hope all is well!



Robert Padgett said:


> The ones on eBay and Tubedepot are all made by the same guy, xulingmrs on eBay, all are of equal quality. Tubemonger sells an enhanced socket saver that includes vibration protection but at 10x the cost. I solved microphonic vibrations by buying a bag of 11mm nitril o-rings and put them around the pins of the tube or adapter. It seals the connection and any vibration may be dissapatedby the rubber. 20- cost $5 with free shipping.



Can you tell me if the micro-phonics happen ONLY when there is an " external"  force hitting the tubes? like, for instance, vibration from the "table" where the valhalla is, for instance? or physically if you "knock" on the tubes?

Or can you hear a difference while listening to music,  simply through the speakers/headphones and it doesn't matter if the chassis is super steady and you are NOT hitting on the tubes?

I got my first NOS JAN Philips 6922 for the VH2, and they do "ring"  the speakers and/or headphones, BUT ONLY if there is a physical interference... like knocking on the tubes or chassis... BUT no difference while simply listening  to music...

Thanks!


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Mikis76 said:


> Hello Ripper2860, and than You for Your input
> I´m afraid that the Garage1217 adapters are a bit over my budget; that´s 70 dollars + taxes to Finland.
> I got these instead for the same cost:
> 
> ...


*This thread's populated by decent folk. *I'm still waffling between getting this amp *or *a tricked-out Fostex headphone.


----------



## Robert Padgett

tricolor said:


> Good morning @Robert Padgett  and folks! Hope all is well!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have been told to tap the tube with a pencil, and if it is microphonic you will hear the ringing. I have had tubes that ring when they are first turned on and stop when warmed up. The microphonics are related to physical motion turning into sound. so if it is not affecting the music, that should not be a problem. Even the tube that ring like bells, sound good IF I am not tapping on them with a pencil. out of 20 "test-good" used tube I have bought on the Cheap, only two have the ringing. I have read in the descriptions of tube, "low microphonics" so that may just be characteristic of that tube. If it doesn't affect the music--especially in the quiet passages, then not to worry. Others, more knowledgable about tubes may have a different opinion, as I am new to tubes myself and still learning. I have been listening to the stock tubes from Schiit, and I think I like them better than 6SN7 with adapters...but that is subject to change later today


----------



## Wes S

Robert Padgett said:


> I have been told to tap the tube with a pencil, and if it is microphonic you will hear the ringing. I have had tubes that ring when they are first turned on and stop when warmed up. The microphonics are related to physical motion turning into sound. so if it is not affecting the music, that should not be a problem. Even the tube that ring like bells, sound good IF I am not tapping on them with a pencil. out of 20 "test-good" used tube I have bought on the Cheap, only two have the ringing. I have read in the descriptions of tube, "low microphonics" so that may just be characteristic of that tube. If it doesn't affect the music--especially in the quiet passages, then not to worry. Others, more knowledgable about tubes may have a different opinion, as I am new to tubes myself and still learning. I have been listening to the stock tubes from Schiit, and I think I like them better than 6SN7 with adapters...but that is subject to change later today


Tapping tubs, while they are hot, is a good way to make a tube microphonic.  If they are microphonic, you don't need to tap them at all, you will hear it.  If you don't hear any microphonics, and then tap the tube, of course you will hear them.  I know Brent Jesse charges extra, to tap on them (test for noise?), and this has always seemed VERY strange to me, and another reason I don't but tubes from him.


----------



## Ripper2860

Mikis76 said:


> Hello Ripper2860, and than You for Your input
> I´m afraid that the Garage1217 adapters are a bit over my budget; that´s 70 dollars + taxes to Finland.
> I got these instead for the same cost:
> 
> ...




Yeah -- the Garage adapters are certainly not inexpensive.  Excellent find allowing more $$$ for tubes!!  .


----------



## tricolor

Mikis76 said:


> Greetings from Finland! I just ordered the Reflektor 6N3P-E from eBay and was wondering that are there much quality differences with the adapters for the Valhalla 2? Which ones should I buy?



Hey! Welcome to the forum @Mikis76 !!!

I used to live in Nunavut, and now I'm in northern Quebec... but we can still see some northern lights... and it's WICKED!   Hope i'll visit Finland and fatbike there one day...  I love mine and it's the best way to have fun all year long outdoors... (Well, I currently don't have a snowmobile... which I used to have while in Iqaluit, hehe)

Cheers!


----------



## tricolor

Thank you @Wes S  & @Robert Padgett !



Wes S said:


> Tapping tubs, while they are hot, is a good way to make a tube microphonic.  If they are microphonic, you don't need to tap them at all, you will hear it.  If you don't hear any microphonics, and then tap the tube, of course you will hear them.  I know Brent Jesse charges extra, to tap on them (test for noise?), and this has always seemed VERY strange to me, and another reason I don't but tubes from him.




Thanks for sharing your thoughts... That's exactly how I feel... If it won't bother me WHILE simply listening to music... I am cool with  using a tube that might be microphonic.... my other tubes won't ring even if I knock on them... so that's why I got curious about microphony...
cheers!


----------



## Robert Padgett

tricolor said:


> Thank you @Wes S  & @Robert Padgett !
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks also, @Wes S for the info about the tapping test...As a newcomer to tubes (just since December) I am a sponge when it comes to tube information. I won't be tapping hot tubes...


----------



## Mikis76

tricolor said:


> Hey! Welcome to the forum @Mikis76 !!!
> 
> I used to live in Nunavut, and now I'm in northern Quebec... but we can still see some northern lights... and it's WICKED!   Hope i'll visit Finland and fatbike there one day...  I love mine and it's the best way to have fun all year long outdoors... (Well, I currently don't have a snowmobile... which I used to have while in Iqaluit, hehe)
> 
> Cheers!


Cheers to You also tricolor! I´m living in southern part of Finland so not much northern lights here but every now and then; and yes, wicked! One might say that I also fatbike; i´m quite "big boned" and I drive a normal bicycle


----------



## Robert Padgett

www.facebook.com/notes/affordable-audiophile/frank-zappa-and-a-cool-russian-breeze-blowing-in-off-the-siberian-coastinto-my-h/2268249456828345/

My latest writing, here is the link (No this is not click-bait, it is my Facebook Audio magazine, from which I make no money.) I just want to spare the Mobile members from a huge text dump


----------



## tricolor

Good morning @Mikis76 , @Ripper2860 ,  folks! Hope all is well!



Mikis76 said:


> Cheers to You also tricolor! I´m living in southern part of Finland so not much northern lights here but every now and then; and yes, wicked! One might say that I also fatbike; i´m quite "big boned" and I drive a normal bicycle




hehehe  I'm not exactly skinny either, but I do love biking around... Heard biking there is super popular and the roads are quite friendly for that... that's wicked! must be cool with all the lakes you guys have too... Here in northern Quebec in particular we have quite a few lakes and ponds...  it's quite fun riding over over ice using studded tires... 

Coming back to "audio" related Schiit... @Ripper2860 , saw a few weeks ago  that  you were using an adapter for 12AU7's to 6922... how's it going? I am interested in getting the adapters as well.. but I am willing to use the CV4024's from Mullard with the Valhalla 2... so they are  basically 12AT7's and NOT 12AU7's. 

They have a higher gain then 12AU7's... :/   

So that in comparison, seems like in a scale of gain:  12AX7's are like 100... 12AT7's like 60 and 12AU7's are like 19... so not necessarily interchangeable...

thanks for your thoughts!
Ed


----------



## Ripper2860 (Apr 25, 2019)

I run 12AU7s and they work fabulously.  I've been told that since they are lower gain, they are also less noisy. I've not treid 12AT7 or 12AX7, but compared to the the natively supported  6DJ8's gain factor of 33, the 12AU7's gain factor of 19 was not really a detriment.  My HPs are 103db senstivity, so that may play a part.  Try an inexpensive, strong measuring pair out (RCA Clear-top 12AU7A) -- you may be surprised.


----------



## tricolor

Hey @Ripper2860 !  Thanks!



Ripper2860 said:


> I run 12AU7s and they work fabulously.  I've been told that since they are lower gain, they are also less noisy. I've not treid 12AT7 or 12AX7, but compared to the the natively supported  6DJ8's gain factor of 33, the 12AU7's gain factor of 19 was not really a detriment.  My HPs are 103db senstivity, so that may play a part.  Try an inexpensive, strong measuring pair out (RCA Clear-top 12AU7A) -- you may be surprised.



I'll definitely keep those in mind... For now,  as I have already the Mullard CV4024/ECC81 running on my power amp... I'll stick to those... I really like also how they flare up when I turn on the amplifier. Aesthetically, it looks cool...   But, yeah, they sound pretty good too! Planning on pairing them with the Grado GS1000i and/or the KEF Q700's speakers.

Hmmmm, just checked the pricing on the RCA... around US$70? Although on the affordable side for NOS, still a bit off for my pocket... got the Mullard's last time for $30 or so each... 

cheers!


----------



## Ripper2860 (Apr 25, 2019)

$70!!??  I wouldn't pay that either.  Look for Conn labeled Clear-top tubes.  They run about $32-$35 / pair typically.  They are pretty good as Conn (an organ maker) required additional screening for balance and noise since they were to be used in a musical instrument.  You can also get Sylvania (Conn and Baldwin labeled) for less than $25 a matched pair.  They sound quite good, as well -- although they ain't no Mullard.  

Ex: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...666775?hash=item1a5cb74e97:g:6kYAAOSwFvZbhf8e

Have fun, but be prepared -- 12AU7's and variants can get pretty pricey for the highly sought-after tubes -- more-so than 12AT7 and 12AX7 versions.  This is likely because they tend to be quieter so  they are sought-after in preamps and phono-stages.


----------



## tricolor

Hi again @Ripper2860 !



Ripper2860 said:


> $70!!??  I wouldn't pay that either.  Look for Conn labeled Clear-top tubes.  They run about $32-$35 / pair typically.  They are pretty good as Conn (an organ maker) required additional screening for balance and noise since they were to be used in a musical instrument.  You can also get Sylvania (Conn and Baldwin labeled) for less than $25 a matched pair.  They sound quite good, as well -- although they ain't no Mullard.
> 
> Ex: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...666775?hash=item1a5cb74e97:g:6kYAAOSwFvZbhf8e
> 
> Have fun, but be prepared -- 12AU7's and variants can get pretty pricey for the highly sought-after tubes -- more-so than 12AT7 and 12AX7 versions.  This is likely because they tend to be quieter so  they are sought-after in preamps and phono-stages.




Right on... that sounds indeed more of a real / feasible option... Even if I win the lottery, I honestly can't see myself spending a hundred bucks or more on a SINGLE tube... especially that my system or worse, my ears wouldn't get the difference...  

I am enjoying for the time being the JAN Philips 6922, even if it's quite microphonic... but because I LOVE the Mullard's that are currently running on the power amp... I wouldn't mind making it  "simple"  and having same tubes for the headphones/pre-amp... I usually don't listen to loud music... so even it's got a lower gain, I am sure it won't be a deal breaker... 

cheers!


----------



## 506097

So I just started tube rolling recently and already tested a few tubes based on feedback in this thread:
- JJ E88CC/6922: Little more low-end, but less soundstage than stock. Felt boring to me after listening for a while.
- 6N23P Holy Grail Voskhod from 1975: Had more soundstage but sounded to bright and had too much air for me.

I switched back to stock tubes as I find them a better match for my daily driver.

Do you have any recommendations for a tube very similar to stock but with just a little more bass?


----------



## Robert Padgett

audioguy42 said:


> So I just started tube rolling recently and already tested a few tubes based on feedback in this thread:
> - JJ E88CC/6922: Little more low-end, but less soundstage than stock. Felt boring to me after listening for a while.
> - 6N23P Holy Grail Voskhod from 1975: Had more soundstage but sounded to bright and had too much air for me.
> 
> ...



You might give the Holy Grail Russian more time to break-in and settle down. A 6H23P is a 6DJ8 equivilent, which is different that a 6H1P stock tube--which is different than a 6922-type tube. All are interchangeable, but all have different character. Your Russian tube might blossom into song after only 50 hours, and surprise you with it's sound.


----------



## Wes S

audioguy42 said:


> So I just started tube rolling recently and already tested a few tubes based on feedback in this thread:
> - JJ E88CC/6922: Little more low-end, but less soundstage than stock. Felt boring to me after listening for a while.
> - 6N23P Holy Grail Voskhod from 1975: Had more soundstage but sounded to bright and had too much air for me.
> 
> ...


Amperex 7308 USA


----------



## 506097 (Apr 27, 2019)

Robert Padgett said:


> You might give the Holy Grail Russian more time to break-in and settle down. A 6H23P is a 6DJ8 equivilent, which is different that a 6H1P stock tube--which is different than a 6922-type tube. All are interchangeable, but all have different character. Your Russian tube might blossom into song after only 50 hours, and surprise you with it's sound.



That's what I thought. I listened for about 35h and the tube was powered even longer.
I can hear a big difference from the beginning: sound opened up, got more resolving and had more air.
It even freaks me out a bit when a song has a lot of switching between left/right.

Because of this sound change I thought I reached the burn-in period.
It's a great tube, I just think that I d'like something else as my main daily driver.
Maybe I'll use it for analytical listening instead.



Wes S said:


> Amperex 7308 USA



Thanks, but I think that's a little over my budget.
I forgot to mention that I don't want to spend more than 90$.


----------



## tricolor

@audioguy42 , folks!
hope all is well!

I’ve been enjoying the JAN philips 6922... it’s a NOS tube that ain’t expensive at all compared to others.... maybe cause it’s quite microphonic... but as my combo won’t vibrate, I cannot see (hear) affecting the music... 

i find the bass quite good as well as the mids... good soundstage too...  it freaks me out listening to Amused to death by Roger Waters... or Madonna’s Vogue... 

I’ve just ordered an adapter for me to hook up 12AT7s to the valhalla 2... and i’ll keep you posted, but I truly love the Mullard 12AT7/cv4024, which are also NOS, but not crazy expensive either.
(i run them on the power amp for the speakers)

cheers!


----------



## 506097

From reading this thread, the Tung-Sol 2C51 might be something I'm looking into.
How are these compared to the stock tubes?

And the 6C8G also look very nice.
Does anyone have experience with 6C8G's?



tricolor said:


> I’ve been enjoying the JAN philips 6922... it’s a NOS tube that ain’t expensive at all compared to others.... maybe cause it’s quite microphonic... but as my combo won’t vibrate, I cannot see (hear) affecting the music...
> 
> i find the bass quite good as well as the mids... good soundstage too...  it freaks me out listening to Amused to death by Roger Waters... or Madonna’s Vogue...



Sounds exactly what I'm looking for.
How do they compare to the mids/soundstage from the stock tubes?


----------



## Robert Padgett

tricolor said:


> @audioguy42 -_*snip--*_
> 
> I’ve just ordered an adapter for me to hook up 12AT7s to the valhalla 2... and i’ll keep you posted, but I truly love the Mullard 12AT7/cv4024, which are also NOS, but not crazy expensive either.
> (i run them on the power amp for the speakers)
> ...



I just ordered a pair of adapters. I have heard so much about the 12au7 in Valhalla 2, thought it was worth $20 for the adapters. I see many 12au7 type tubes for from reasonable to cheap...


----------



## Wes S

Robert Padgett said:


> I just ordered a pair of adapters. I have heard so much about the 12au7 in Valhalla 2, thought it was worth $20 for the adapters. I see many 12au7 type tubes for from reasonable to cheap...


Actually the good 12au7 go for just as much as the 6922.  Look up a Mullard D getter 12au7.


----------



## Robert Padgett

Wes S said:


> Actually the good 12au7 go for just as much as the 6922.  Look up a Mullard D getter 12au7.


Yes sir, there are expensive tubes in all the categories. I will be looking for a Great deal--Thanks for the head's up...


----------



## tricolor

hey @audioguy42 , folks! hope all is well!



audioguy42 said:


> From reading this thread, the Tung-Sol 2C51 might be something I'm looking into.
> How are these compared to the stock tubes?
> 
> And the 6C8G also look very nice.
> ...



Hmmmm, I don't have any experience with 6C8G, but I have been enjoying the stock tubes as well... I think they are pretty good bang for the buck to be honest... I am super thankful that Schiit  for did it right in the sense that out of the box, we get a good quality product... no CRAZY NEED to replace the stock parts... but yeah, rolling is an interesting ride for sure, so, why not experiment?  

If you try the Philips JAN 6922, at least they are quite affordable... I think I got mine for $30 bucks or so each...

cheers!
Ed


----------



## Robert Padgett

tricolor said:


> hey @audioguy42 , folks! hope all is well!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ed, pre-conceived notions plagued me when I finally bought the Valhalla 2. I had experienced hearing differences between tubes, with their Vali 2 as the platform. 

The Valhalla is a different animal, entirely. I assumed that because 6SN7 tubes sounded different/better that this should also be the case with Valhalla 2. 
I had purchased a matched pair of Foton 6H8C tubes for $42 with shipping back in December--with the Valhalla 2 to be purchased later this year. 

I was told that at least 100-hours were needed to get these Soviets to settle down.
I did my due diligence, and suffered through 100-hours, as I awaited this great improvement.

Yesterday, a pair of NOS-Matched pair 6DJ8 tubes arrived from our friends at VIVATUBES.COM, and without a compliment of socket-savers and adapters, they plugged right into the VH2, as they are drop-in replacements for the 6N1P.

WOW!

I like the "Unknown" brand of tubes. Right out of their plain-white boxes, they sounded better than anything else I have tried.

My intellectual curiosity has gripped me. The answer is rather obvious, but up until yesterday, it had eluded me.  Jason and Mike designed the Valhalla 2 to use 6h1p stock tubes. They said that rolling 6922, or 6DJ8 or E88CC tubes would alter the sound. No mention of adapters and 6SN7 tubes to be found.

Now, I am concluding that the differences between different tubes are a game best played with the Vali 2--dual adapters, single-triodes, 6SN7 Mouse-ears, Sovtek 6H8C tubes--all sound different.

On Valhalla 2, the impact of rolling the driver tubes was less obvious. While initial impressions that the larger tubes were "better", they also revealed some short-comings also.
The 6SN7 tubes I have collected sound different, but different is not always "better". I found I was turning the volume up to full (max) and in 300-ohm Headphones, I wanted a little bit "more".

Ther 6922 type tubes are happy in the 12 o'clock to maybe 2 o'clock...not full Max volume. Higher gain? Amplifier "voiced" for miniature tubes? The way Jason designed it?

Probably yes to all.  I just know I have a bucket full of 6SN7 tubes, many not very expensive. No great loss. My attention is turned toward finding and trying some of the 12a*7 family with an adapter. Those adapters are coming from China, so no hurry to buy any more tubes now.

Was $60 a waste, by me trying 6SN7s? No, because it leads me to this conclusion-- "Don't row against the Current, go with the Flow."


----------



## ScubaMan2017 (Apr 30, 2019)

{*{{{I'll be mindful of the boards' terms of service [no unpaid ads... this post is STRICTLY about the experience of talking to other radio-heads... no boogeymen]}}}}}
To my Canadian peers... *
I had my first experience buying glass in Ontario. Canuck Audio Mart. _Their rating system & 3rd party communication seems to work very well_. PM if you'd like the particulars. I picked up the tubes, in person. No drama. Safe. Sane.


----------



## Robert Padgett (Apr 30, 2019)

ScubaMan2017 said:


> {*{{{I'll be mindful of the boards' terms of service [no unpaid ads... this post is STRICTLY about the experience of talking to other radio-heads... no boogeymen]}}}}}
> To my Canadian peers... *
> I had my first experience buying glass in Ontario. Canuck Audio Mart. _Their rating system & 3rd party communication seems to work very well_. PM if you'd like the particulars. I picked up the tubes, in person. No drama. Safe. Sane.



As it should be. Those are interesting looking little Soviets. I am betting they will sound different than the stock tube and will get better over time...that seems to be the protocol for NOS Soviet era glass... Glad you had a sane experience... I contacted your dealer about some NOS matched Pair 12au7 variants which he has for $35 CAD a pair...


----------



## tricolor

Good morning @Robert Padgett , folks!
Diet quote 



Robert Padgett said:


> Ed, pre-conceived notions plagued me when I finally bought the Valhalla 2. I had experienced hearing differences between tubes
> Yesterday, a pair of NOS-Matched pair 6DJ8 tubes arrived from our friends at VIVATUBES.COM, and without a compliment of socket-savers and adapters, they plugged right into the VH2, as they are drop-in replacements for the 6N1P.
> 
> WOW!
> ...



That is an interesting point... I have played with the volume in terms of leaving the computer signal quite "low"...  then using the "high gain" as well and do "adjust"  the volume with the Valhalla2 and play with all these different "levels"...  Quite interesting to hear the difference when the knob is at different "positions"... The "downside"  is that it is handy to control via "remote"...
So yeah, I kind of understand better why Saga/Freya offer the remote control... 

cheers!
Ed


----------



## Robert Padgett (May 6, 2019)

I have adapters on the way for 12a*7 tubes and am anxious to try the Mullard tubes, which have been recommended.
The problem still remains, Only two ears and 24-hours day to listen...


----------



## Krusnik

Man searching for power tubes to roll out can be time consuming lol


----------



## tricolor

Good morning @Krusnik, folks! Hope all is well!



Krusnik said:


> Man searching for power tubes to roll out can be time consuming lol



Not sure if it's accurate but I've read "changing" power tubes ain't  as "effective"  with the Valhalla in the sense of changing the way it sounds...

And on a side note, just received the 12AT7 to 6922 adapter... so I just powered on the Valhalla 2 with a pair of NOS Mullard's 12AT7's last night... Haven't had any chances of sitting down to enjoy and relax yet, but I think it will be a sweet combo! 

Cheers!


----------



## Robert Padgett (May 9, 2019)

tricolor said:


> Good morning @Krusnik, folks! Hope all is well!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


WOW, you are moving through the early phases of Audiophilia Nervosa--'Tube-Rolling Syndrome' rather quickly...Well-played, Mate!

My 12a*7 adapters are on the slow boat from the Chin Dynasty...and the NOS Mullards are on my list as they come very well recommended by several rollers, I trust.

I found that rolling 6SN7 tubes didn't seem to improve my sound quality as I experience it on the Vali 2, so I am sticking to nine-pin variants for Valhalla 2, 6DJ8 being the current flavor of the week.

And I agree--not only are there very limited choices in 6N6P power tubes, but the stock tubes are also the same as the others offered for '4 for $14.95'.
Unless you want a set as back-up, rolling to a $45 pair of 'Matched Gold Grid pair from Rarium--1950' will probably not affect sound quality as say going from a stock driver tube to a vintage Mullard 12at7. YMMV


----------



## tricolor

Good afternoon!



Robert Padgett said:


> WOW, you are moving through the early phases of Audiophilia Nervosa--'Tube-Rolling Syndrome' rather quickly...Well-played, Mate!
> 
> My 12a*7 adapters are on the slow boat from the Chin Dynasty...and the NOS Mullards are on my list as they come very well recommended by several rollers, I trust.
> 
> ...




hehehe, I think because I really like the Mullard's, for me it's like discovering this  "one stop" shop...  and now, I will simply be sticking to it... as opposed to be playing with more options down the road... (the same "pair" for both amps solution rocks!)

yeah, the "glow" when I turn the amp on "helps" from the aesthetics perspective as well... it looks cool, hehe  but overall, I do enjoy the sound for sure!  I will listen over the next few days to confirm... Yeah, the philips JAN is good... affordable... but microphonic...    Mullard's are good and quite affordable and NOT microphonic... 

cheers!


----------



## Robert Padgett

tricolor said:


> --snip-- Yeah, the Philips JAN is good... affordable... but microphonic...    Mullard's are good and quite affordable and NOT microphonic...
> 
> cheers!


 Affordable and not microphonic---seems like a good standard to uphold. 

You know, I will never know what a $500 pair of mid-1960s West German Telefunken ECC88 sounds like on my $349 tubular music machine, and I am OK with that. I will enjoy my $199 Massdrop 6XX HPs, even though the new Abyss reference head speakers may very well sound better. 

Tube rolling flies in the face of logic. Of course, different tubes sound different, and for untold different reasons. 

But, finding a pair that makes you not want to try anything else is Priceless!
Enjoy the Music, it is all about the Music, everything else is Noise...


----------



## tricolor

Robert Padgett said:


> Affordable and not microphonic---seems like a good standard to uphold.
> 
> You know, I will never know what a $500 pair of mid-1960s West German Telefunken ECC88 sounds like on my $349 tubular music machine, and I am OK with that. I will enjoy my $199 Massdrop 6XX HPs, even though the new Abyss reference head speakers may very well sound better.
> 
> ...




yep! exactly! not a big fan of having the sauce being way more expensive than the chicken... hehe
my speakers are not crazy high end, but I am truly happy with them... don’t think the combo of my equipment and my ears would recognize a crazy expensive NOS tube either...  my cap for tubes is around $30 to $40 bucks tops! i don’t think I’d have the guts to spend more than that...


cheers!


----------



## Ripper2860

Robert Padgett said:


> 'Matched Gold Grid pair from Rarium--1950'




Ummmm….  They are Foton Gold Grid 6N6Ps and they were 6 for $24, thank you very much.


----------



## CRITICALSHOT

Ripper2860 said:


> I'll be using these these adapters...
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-ECC83-12AX7-12AU7-To-6N2-6N6-6DJ8-Vacuum-Tube-Amp-Convert-Socket-Adapter/283129866984?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


Does that adapter work with the Valhalla 1?


----------



## ScubaMan2017

CRITICALSHOT said:


> Does that adapter work with the Valhalla 1?


Re: Valhalla 2. My hunch would be yes -- provided one used a socket saver of some kind, to elevate the adapter above the Valhalla's chassis. Wait, are you referring to the Valhalla 1?! Uh oh. I thought the Jason's thread noted that the first generation of Valhalla wasn't rollable...  [approximately paragraph 31... link here]


----------



## Robert Padgett

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Re: Valhalla 2. My hunch would be yes -- provided one used a socket saver of some kind, to elevate the adapter above the Valhalla's chassis. Wait, are you referring to the Valhalla 1?! Uh oh. I thought Jason's thread noted that the first generation of Valhalla wasn't rollable...  [approximately paragraph 31... link here]



I must not be a very good paragraph counter because I fail to see him saying it was not "rollable".

I have found that the effect of rolling 6SN7 (6H8C) tubes on the Valhalla 2 was less spectacular that rolling the same tube on the Vali 2. 

The huge tubes towering over the 6N6P power tube, the wobbly nature of two stacked socket savers, and --quite frankly--the ugliness of the arrangement helped me to decide to follow Jason's recommendations. 

He says that rolling the stock 6N1P driver tubes with other 6922,6DJ8,E88CC-type tubes will affect the sound quality. 

No adapters to an Octal base or a wobbly tree of $2 socket-savers are mentioned and for good reason.


----------



## ScubaMan2017 (May 11, 2019)

Robert Padgett said:


> I must not be a very good paragraph counter because I fail to see him saying it was not "rollable".
> 
> I have found that the effect of rolling 6SN7 (6H8C) tubes on the Valhalla 2 was less spectacular that rolling the same tube on the Vali 2.
> 
> ...


Yep. You're right. I scanned that entry. No mention of the Valhalla 1 being/not-being tube-rollable. Here's another post wrt the Valhalla...
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/valhalla-problems-someone-help.622412/page-6#post-8628653

{{{edit - btw, it's an interesting mini-thread. When the owner had more {?} time to answer user questions}}}

Plan C: drop a note to Schiit's help desk....


----------



## Robert Padgett

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Yep. You're right. I scanned that entry. No mention of the Valhalla 1 being/not-being tube-rollable. Here's another post wrt the Valhalla...
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/valhalla-problems-someone-help.622412/page-6#post-8628653
> 
> Plan C: drop a note to Schiit's help desk....




One piece of advice given to me a few months ago...just because someone makes an adapter, doesn't mean it will work. 
I take that to mean that adapters are a change from the basic designs of the amplifier. 

Tube amps like the Valhalla are "voiced" by the engineer to produce a good quality sound with a given tube-type (6SN7 vs E88CC). In the case of Valhalla 2, Jason and Mike designed an amp that performs to their expectations, using the plentiful and relatively cheap 6N1P driver tube, because they had their reasons. 

The Vali 2 ships with 6DJ8 or a 6BZ7, which is a drop-in for the 6N1P. This begs the question, if you are going to build two different tube amp, each using a Nine-pin type tube, why would you want two different types of the tube to stock, to make sure they don't get mixed up in shipping, etc.? 
Only one reason, they like the 6N1P 'house sound' better than if they used the existing stock of Vali 2 tubes. I now own the Valhalla 2, and I choose to use 6DJ8 tubes in it because I like that sound. 

I will never know if a pair of $500 rare Telefunken ECC88 sound better, I am sure they would sound different.  I don't see many folks on the Valhalla tube rolling thread who have proudly proclaimed a 6SN7 tube makes the Valhalla 2 any better, which my own research validates. 

I am fortunate to have a Vali 2, where those big boys play well (and I have a lifetime supply of variants to play 'tube-roller' with). 
I am still curious about a pair of Old Stock British Mullard 12AT7 with the nine-pine adapters--only because others have said they are the 'bee's knees' in sound quality on the Valhalla 2.


----------



## CRITICALSHOT

Robert Padgett said:


> One piece of advice given to me a few months ago...just because someone makes an adapter, doesn't mean it will work.
> I take that to mean that adapters are a change from the basic designs of the amplifier.
> 
> Tube amps like the Valhalla are "voiced" by the engineer to produce a good quality sound with a given tube-type (6SN7 vs E88CC). In the case of Valhalla 2, Jason and Mike designed an amp that performs to their expectations, using the plentiful and relatively cheap 6N1P driver tube, because they had their reasons.
> ...


I have a pair of RCA grey long plates for my Rogue Audio RH-5 on their way and after that a pair of Mullard UK made 12AU7 made for GE.  I will do some more research as that was a damn elusive paragraph 31.  Any and all help was appreciated!


----------



## tricolor

hey @Robert Padgett , folks! 



Robert Padgett said:


> One piece of advice given to me a few months ago...just because someone makes an adapter, doesn't mean it will work.
> I take that to mean that adapters are a change from the basic designs of the amplifier.
> 
> (diet quote)
> ...



Wonder if due to “military” specs, NOS are more likely to stand variations in terms of taking peaks and changes in current / voltage.... and not burn out like a light bulb... hence the in theory longer life?

mines are cv4024,( mullard  12at7’s)  and i’m quite happy so far after a few days... especially with headphones, if feels like a bit warmer than the stock tubes... but not muddy at all.

cheers!


----------



## Robert Padgett (May 12, 2019)

ScubaMan2017 said:


> --snip--
> 
> {{{edit - btw, it's an interesting mini-thread. When the owner had more {?} time to answer user questions}}}
> 
> Plan C: drop a note to Schiit's help desk....



"*About Schiit Audio*
Founded in June 2010 by Jason Stoddard and Mike Moffat, Schiit has grown into a leader in the "personal audio" market, with a wide range of products spanning DACs, headphone amplifiers, and preamplifiers, from $49 to $2299. Schiit is also a leader in the direct sale of audio products."


Scuba, that was in 2012--when this thread first started, when Jason and Mike were just getting revved up. Almost eight years ago, when still a young company I am sure they had to be more responsive to things like spilled OJ and cat fur-balls.

Today, they are a global presence with new items being developed and production issues that neither Jason or Mike could have foreseen way back then.

Barack Obama was running for re-election, Donald Trump was a reality TV Star, and 4 GB of memory was sufficient for Ubuntu Linux 12.04 LTS...ancient history in Audio world.


----------



## bokononista (May 14, 2019)

Hi guys!
I have a Valhalla 2 + Bifrost MB + Beyerdynamic T1.1 for some time and want to share some subjective tube rolling experience. In general I am happy with microdynamics, detail, smoothness and great holographic soundstage capability of Valhalla - It is something I miss with solid state amps and hybrid like Vali 2 I also have.

After some experience with tubes I found myself looking mostly for the best soundstage and natural sound. I am also looking for better dynamics and clarity of Vali 2.


*6N1P, 6DJ8, 6922 family*
Dynamic is little weak in comparsion with Vali 2. There is also little veil. This is my problem with this family of tubes.

Stock tubes (Novosibirsk):
It has great depth but the imaging is somewhat fuzzy and unfocused. Soundstage is very forward, like you are in the sound. It is like you are sitting in between the musicians. There is a lot of plankton. Bass is little less amount. Treble is ok, no sibilance with my T1.

Amperex Orange Globe 6DJ8 O-Getter
These tubes are the warmest of all tubes i have. Great detail, sharp imaging, great musicality. Only problem I hear is almost flat soundstage, width is good. Dynamics is better than with stock tubes. Good for rock music.






*6N3/2C51/396A tubes with adapter:*
This tube family has little forward mids, which is good fot T1 sound signature. Still lacks dynamics a little but better than 6DJ8.

GE JAN 5670W
Sounds very linear. Sibilant with T1.1! Sounds thin to me and boring. It is the worst pair for me. Soundstage is OK. Lacks dynamics a bit.





Tung-Sol 2C51 O-Getter 1961
These were the tubes to go without thinking most of the time. Very ballanced sound, very natural, musical. Soundstage has the most natural shape, depth with precise direction. Still lacks dynamic in comparsion to Vali2 but better than stock. Little forward mids and smooth treble is great for T1.1. Almost perfect for me. Great for jazz.





Western Electric 396A Square Getter 1960
Great imaging, not so much depth as Tung-sols, very smooth presentation, little forward mids and great quality. Great detail. Not so airy as Tung-sols. Still lacks dynamic in comparsion to Vali2. I found myself returning to Tung-Sols often even i thought WE396A are better.





Reflector 6N3P-E 1974
Very strong bass, great soundstage width and depth, airy, detailed with smooth treble. Great for T1. I found some music best with theese tubes like organ music, classical, but little off for rock music for example. Dont know why. Also dynamics is much better. No veil. Little sterile presentation. Very fast almost like solid state!





*Then i jumped to the 6CG7 (no adapter needed)*
Whole family has much better dynamics and clarity, same level as Vali 2, so theese tubes lift the veil of Valhalla. Tubes are also very linear. With T1, you get better bass, little recessed mids with T1.1 in comparsion with other families (just showing real sound signature of T1.1). Tubes have very big depth but little more narrow width of soundstage. It is like you sit in the 10th row or listen to the pair of speakers. I like it but it depends on everybody taste. Someone wrote about collapsed soundstage of 6CG7 family so it can be perceived differently. For me, this family is the best for Valhalla and I am happy i did try these tubes. I found much less diferences between tube brands - possibly because of linear sound signature of 6CG7 family.

Tung-Sol 6CG7 black plate
Fantastic with T1.1 - no sibilance but airy treble. Very realistic sound of acoustic records. I cant see any weak point except my wish for a little different soundstage shape. But soundstage is large with great holographic presentation and layering. Sound is clear, detailed, dynamic and exciting. Very musical. These are my default tubes now.





RCA black plate black top
Almost like Tung-Sols in all aspects, little more smooth, little less airy. Sometimes better for rock music.





Sylvania 6CG7 yellow text
The warmest of my 6CG7, like RCA but lacks excitement a little. Every aspect is little less than RCA and Tung-Sols.





Overall i found that for T1.1 brighter tubes are better than warm tubes. Warm tubes tames treble more but also take off an excitement a little. But there are brighter tubes with tamed treble but still airy. I found that brighter tubes keep the best of T1.1 - the great soundstage presentation. Typical example for me are both Tung-Sols (2C51 and 6CG7).

I also tried different power tubes, i bought FOTON 6N6P. I expected better sound (bass) or minor differences only. I have to say, that i was dissapointed. Stock power tubes I have are more transparent and have better bass. I think there is sure a difference between power tubes in sound quality, so there is a reason to try different.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Those 6CG7 units intrigue me. I'm satisfied with my current configuration; however, I might pick up a pair of these to use on my Vali (single) or on my Valhalla 2 (as a replacement for the two 6N1P tubes). Meh, next year...


----------



## bokononista

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Those 6CG7 units intrigue me. I'm satisfied with my current configuration; however, I might pick up a pair of these to use on my Vali (single) or on my Valhalla 2 (as a replacement for the two 6N1P tubes). Meh, next year...


How is the soundstage of your 6SN7 (did you try it on Valhalla?)? It should be very similar to 6CG7, so I am curious.


----------



## Robert Padgett

bokononista said:


> How is the soundstage of your 6SN7 (did you try it on Valhalla?)? It should be very similar to 6CG7, so I am curious.



I have been trying to get a pair of 1951 FOTON 6H8C valves to "break-in" on the Valhalla 2. In my humble opinion, backed by numerous trial and error rotations--The Valhalla doesn't play well with 6SN7 variants. On the Vali 2, yes, the soundstage is expanded and the sound quality is improved. On Valhalla 2, those results are not reliably reproduced.

And I really purchased those vintage Russian tubes for the Valhalla, so I was motivated to want them to sound good. I found "rolling" different 6SN7 tubes (Vintage US Made Tung-Sol, among them) not only did I not really hear much difference--when I put the stock 6N1P driver tubes back in, I was able to discern that the 6SN7 sounded "bloated" in the midrange, and did not have the resolution of nine-pin variants of the stock tube. 

The other two house-keeping issues--It required two stacked, and quite wobbly socket-savers so the 6SN7 adapter would connect, and then those huge glass tubes towering over the power tubes were just Ugly.

The good news, I invested well under $75 on all my 6SN7 tubes, I have back-up socket-savers and 6SN7 adapters and I will use them on my Vali 2--where rolling seems to be best. 

I have committed to nine-pin variants, on the Valhalla 2, trying to stay as close to stock as possible, as I think it sounds best. I have a sweet pair of 6DJ8, a Telefunken e88cc, and the stock tube for the Vali 2 and they sound about the same as the stock and 6DJ8 tubes, despite not being "matched".

That is my 2-cents worth-- Your Milage May Vary. If you want to try it for yourself, send me a PM, I think I can get you a couple of socket-savers, adapters, and 6SN7 tubes to play with.


----------



## bokononista (May 13, 2019)

Robert Padgett said:


> I have been trying to get a pair of 1951 FOTON 6H8C valves to "break-in" on the Valhalla 2. In my humble opinion, backed by numerous trial and error rotations--The Valhalla doesn't play well with 6SN7 variants. On the Vali 2, yes, the soundstage is expanded and the sound quality is improved. On Valhalla 2, those results are not reliably reproduced.
> 
> And I really purchased those vintage Russian tubes for the Valhalla, so I was motivated to want them to sound good. I found "rolling" different 6SN7 tubes (Vintage US Made Tung-Sol, among them) not only did I not really hear much difference--when I put the stock 6N1P driver tubes back in, I was able to discern that the 6SN7 sounded "bloated" in the midrange, and did not have the resolution of nine-pin variants of the stock tube.
> 
> ...


Interesting. I did not try 6SN7, but I have a different experience with 6CG7 in my Vali - it was little weird for me mostly because of soundstage. Not the case of Valhalla - I swap 6DJ8 with 6CG7 often and still have experience of overall sound quality rise of 6CG7 even in resolution. The mids i feel little recessed (less forward but with full detail) but i think it is the natural sound signature of T1.1. Maybe the experience with a different headphones vary a lot. But soundstage difference of the whole 6CG7 family is obvious.

The 6CG7 should be electrically similar to the 6SN7, but need no adapters and plugged in have the same height as power tubes, so looks very nice


----------



## ScubaMan2017

bokononista said:


> Hi guys!
> I have a Valhalla 2 + Bifrost MB + Beyerdynamic T1.1 for some time and want to share some subjective tube rolling experience. In general I am happy with microdynamics, detail, smoothness and great holographic soundstage capability of Valhalla - It is something I miss with solid state amps and hybrid like Vali 2 I also have.
> 
> After some experience with tubes I found myself looking mostly for the best soundstage and natural sound. I am also looking for better dynamics and clarity of Vali 2.
> ...


Crimme. This was a NICE post. Those photos were fun to examine, eh. Re: rolling non-6N1P tubes into my Valhalla 2. Nope, not for me. I use all the weird and wonderful adapters for my Vali2. I might elevate the Valhalla tubes with socket savers for better (?) cooling... or at least to get a better view of those incandescent orbs.


----------



## bokononista

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Crimme. This was a NICE post. Those photos were fun to examine, eh. Re: rolling non-6N1P tubes into my Valhalla 2. Nope, not for me. I use all the weird and wonderful adapters for my Vali2. I might elevate the Valhalla tubes with socket savers for better (?) cooling... or at least to get a better view of those incandescent orbs.


Thanks! Socket savers will sure help with tubes cooling. Personally i do not use socket savers for power tubes because it looks silly(too long) . Socket savers raise front tubes to the level of power tubes, so looks good. Only problem i have is that i ordered those savers from China via Ebay (black ones) and those do not have enough grip, so when i try to pull tubes out, socket saver mostly remains in the Valhalla and it is hard to get it out  .... No problem with adapters for 6N3 tubes.


----------



## Robert Padgett (May 14, 2019)

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Crimme. This was a NICE post. Those photos were fun to examine, eh. Re: rolling non-6N1P tubes into my Valhalla 2. Nope, not for me. I use all the weird and wonderful adapters for my Vali2. I might elevate the Valhalla tubes with socket savers for better (?) cooling... or at least to get a better view of those incandescent orbs.


Scubaman--From my experience, you are on the right track.
One tip that helps with stability, should you "stack" two socket-savers in the VH2, you may want to mate the two socket savers with electrical tape before inserting them to make a single, double sized unit--which may stabilize the pair better, and eliminate some wobbliness.
Nine-pine variants afford a wide variety of choices for rolling, but if you like the stock tube sound (which I do) you need not seek further.

With only one socket-saver per tube, the top is barely warm to the touch, and I think two socket-savers is overkill.

And, when designing the Valhalla, Jason could have chosen "taller" sockets for the tubes, elevating them from the PCB, but since that was not his design, I am questioning the logic of trying to make 6SN7 tubes work on the Valhalla, requiring two socket-savers and an adapter--for not-really improved sonic quality.


----------



## Robert Padgett

bokononista said:


> Thanks! Socket savers will sure help with tubes cooling. Personally i do not use socket savers for power tubes because it looks silly(too long) . Socket savers raise front tubes to the level of power tubes, so looks good. Only problem i have is that i ordered those savers from China via Ebay (black ones) and those do not have enough grip, so when i try to pull tubes out, socket saver mostly remains in the Valhalla and it is hard to get it out  .... No problem with adapters for 6N3 tubes.


You are correct, the socket-savers--once inserted in VH2, seem to not want to come back out. I am afraid of sticking needle-nose pliers in their with caps still holding lethal dosages of current. And out of 10 socket-savers, I have had two with bad soldering inside which made them not functional, so the fewer the better.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

Robert Padgett said:


> You are correct, the socket-savers--once inserted in VH2, seem to not want to come back out. I am afraid of sticking needle-nose pliers in their with caps still holding lethal dosages of current. And out of 10 socket-savers, I have had two with bad soldering inside which made them not functional, so the fewer the better.


The set I got a couple years ago (eBay/China) didn't work off the bat.  But after cleaning up the amateur soldering job, they've been working like champs ever since.  I found that a medium-sized set of hemostats with serrated jaws could get between the Valhalla's grill and the saver's top edge and I could work them out without too much trouble.  Once the front LED fades out, I'm not too worried about voltages or heat.


----------



## Robert Padgett

GumbyDammit223 said:


> The set I got a couple years ago (eBay/China) didn't work off the bat.  But after cleaning up the amateur soldering job, they've been working like champs ever since.  I found that a medium-sized set of hemostats with serrated jaws could get between the Valhalla's grill and the saver's top edge and I could work them out without too much trouble.  Once the front LED fades out, I'm not too worried about voltages or heat.



Actually the ones inside the Valhalla 2 have not had problems, the two bad ones were soldering issues, but I am not a DIY guy so my soldering skill level isn't up to the challenge


----------



## c0rp1

Hey everyone,

a proud owner of a Valhalla 2 here. It's my first tube AMP, but have no idea whatsoever about tubes in general. Basically bought it, cause I heard its a good compliment to the Sennheiser HD650 and can definitely hear a difference between it and my Magni 3.
The unit I bought is used. Original tubes were changed - there are 2 identical russian 6N1P (no idea if matched or not) and 2 different russian 6N6P. For my ears it sounds fantastic the way it is, but would definitely like to experiment a bit.

Because I'm definitely new at this, would kindly ask if someone can summarize these 78 pages with some tube suggestions that won't break my wallet, but are preferred by the majority of Valhalla 2 users around. And couple of questions if I may:
1. Do the 6N6P tubes make a significant difference in sound, or its just the 2 input tubes?
2. What difference does matched vs not matched tubes make?

Thank you in advance!


----------



## tricolor

Hey @c0rp1 ! folks! hope all is well!



c0rp1 said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> a proud owner of a Valhalla 2 here. It's my first tube AMP, but have no idea whatsoever about tubes in general. Basically bought it, cause I heard its a good compliment to the Sennheiser HD650 and can definitely hear a difference between it and my Magni 3.
> The unit I bought is used. Original tubes were changed - there are 2 identical russian 6N1P (no idea if matched or not) and 2 different russian 6N6P. For my ears it sounds fantastic the way it is, but would definitely like to experiment a bit.
> ...



Welcome to the group! As far as I know, matching is recommended for POWER tubes and won't make a big difference for input...

and yep, for Valhalla 2, seems like the biggest difference will be by swapping the input tubes... not the power... so 6N1P for 6922, 6DJ8/ECC88/ECC85/6BZ7... 

If they sound fantastic AS IS... sit back and enjoy!  
otherwise the rabbit hole can become overwhelming...    
cheers!


----------



## Robert Padgett

c0rp1 said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> a proud owner of a Valhalla 2 here. It's my first tube AMP, but have no idea whatsoever about tubes in general. Basically bought it, cause I heard its a good compliment to the Sennheiser HD650 and can definitely hear a difference between it and my Magni 3.
> The unit I bought is used. Original tubes were changed - there are 2 identical Russian 6N1P (no idea if matched or not) and 2 different Russian 6N6P. For my ears, it sounds fantastic the way it is, but would definitely like to experiment a bit.
> ...



Welcome to Valhalla, the resting place of the Norse Gods. I too am new to tubes but have had a steep learning curve since the Vali 2 arrived in December 2018. My answers to the two questions are based on MY experience. The 6N6P power tubes are all basically the same, and rolling them to a "matched pair" or "Vintage" versions will not make a huge difference in SQ. They are a commodity item where a "Gold-Grid" Foton pair will sell for 4 for $14.95 all over the internet. The stock tubes will be no different than what you purchase.

Matched tubes are preferred but not required. I have two matched sets of driver tubes and two mismatched orphans. My ears can hear subtle differences from tubes to other tubes, and the mismatched pair sound as good as the matched pair. Your mileage may vary.

My suggestions would be to look at 6DJ8-type tubes, and E88CC-variants (all nine-pin) 
Vivatubes.com have a selection of "Tests NOS-matched pairs" from $20 and up. 

I have gone down a rabbit hole of socket-savers, and adapters to use 6SN7 tubes for drivers. 

If you are going to use adapters, buy a pair of  "12a*7 to 6922"  adapters and look to the nine-pin 12a*7 variants (AU, AT, AY, AX--each with different Gain). The 12A* family are electrically similar to 6SN7 and have very strong reviews (Old stock Mullards, Tungstram, et. al).

I find the Valhalla is voiced for the 6N1P tubes that Jason selected. The 6DJ8 is a warmer more wholesome, tubey sound. The 6SN7 is problematic because you must stack two socket-savers to get the huge adapter and tube to connect. That is a wobbly proposition--and hardly worth the effort if a pair of 12AU7 sound just as good with one adapter.


----------



## Krusnik

Robert Padgett said:


> WOW, you are moving through the early phases of Audiophilia Nervosa--'Tube-Rolling Syndrome' rather quickly...Well-played, Mate!
> 
> My 12a*7 adapters are on the slow boat from the Chin Dynasty...and the NOS Mullards are on my list as they come very well recommended by several rollers, I trust.
> 
> ...




Thanks brotha, I'm a quick learner lol


----------



## Krusnik

Ripper2860 said:


> Ummmm….  They are Foton Gold Grid 6N6Ps and they were 6 for $24, thank you very much.


Just picked up two fotons gold grid for 30


----------



## Ripper2860

Nice.  I think you'll like them.  My buy was from a new Russian seller trying to establish themselves.  The price was for 4, but the seller sent 2x extra as a bonus.  They were all pristine.  I'm sure prices have gone up  a bit.  Needless to say, I gave him a great review.


----------



## bokononista

Anybody have some recommendation for good 6N6P power tubes? I tried Foton but was little bit dissapointed.


----------



## Wes S

bokononista said:


> Anybody have some recommendation for good 6N6P power tubes? I tried Foton but was little bit dissapointed.


I would not waste my time, with power tubes, on the Valhalla 2, and would spend the money on input tubes.


----------



## Robert Padgett

Wes S said:


> I would not waste my time, with power tubes, on the Valhalla 2, and would spend the money on input tubes.


+1 on power tubes...


----------



## bokononista

Wes S said:


> I would not waste my time, with power tubes, on the Valhalla 2, and would spend the money on input tubes.


I have a lot of input but no power tubes ... I just think that some day my power tubes will die anyway so why not find some to have already . I dont expect much from it, I am just curious.


----------



## Wes S

bokononista said:


> I have a lot of input but no power tubes ... I just think that some day my power tubes will die anyway so why not find some to have already . I dont expect much from it, I am just curious.


Schitt Audio, is the place to buy more.


----------



## Krusnik

bokononista said:


> Anybody have some recommendation for good 6N6P power tubes? I tried Foton but was little bit dissapointed.


Can you describe your experience?


----------



## bokononista

In comparsion with stock power tubes sound was less transparent with less bass amount.


----------



## Krusnik

bokononista said:


> In comparsion with stock power tubes sound was less transparent with less bass amount.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 15, 2019)

While I have the Foton 6N6P power tubes, the diff (if any) was minimal and not to the detriment of any sound that I could discern.  Driver tubes are where the $$ should be spent as that is where the magic is!


----------



## bokononista

Ripper2860 said:


> While I have the Foton 6N6P power tubes, the diff (if any) was minimal and not to the detriment of any sound that I could discern.  Driver tubes are where the $$ should be spent as that is where the magic is!


Maybe my Fotons are somehow bad, because it is very noticable difference. It was not expensive to get.


----------



## Wes S

Ripper2860 said:


> While I have the Foton 6N6P power tubes, the diff (if any) was minimal and not to the detriment of any sound that I could discern.  Driver tubes are where the $$ should be spent as that is where the magic is!


Did you say magic . . .pop in some adapters and some WE396A, and the magic happens.


----------



## Ripper2860

They are on my list.  Mullard CV4003 and Brimar CV4033's are favs, but CIFTE are a close 2nd.  12AT/U7 and variants are definitely my favs!!


----------



## Wes S

Ripper2860 said:


> They are on my list.  Mullard CV4003 and Brimar CV4033's are favs, but CIFTE are a close 2nd.  12AT/U7 and variants are definitely my favs!!


I have all those tubes, as well as the Mullard Square Getter Long Plate, for my Bottlehead crack, and cant wait to hear them.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 15, 2019)

I have a BHC waiting to be built and will likely get started in the next few weeks.  Can't wait to try my 6SN7 and 12AT/U7 tube stash on it!!


----------



## Wes S

Ripper2860 said:


> I have a BHC waiting to be built and will likely get started in the next few weeks.  Can't wait to try my 6SN7 and 12AT/U7 tube stash on it!!


Awesome!  See ya, in the Bottlehead thread.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

I'm going bonkers. _Yes, I might have been drinking slightly tonight._ However, I'm listening to Harlequin's Innocence (from their creepy-cover, _Love Crimes_ album). Switching back and forth between my VH2 and the Magni3... Dammit. There's a difference between the first ~2 minutes of song (between the 2 amps). What is it?! Does the Magni provide more definition with the lead singer? Does the VH2 provide a more mellow oomph?
Tsk, I dunno.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 15, 2019)

Tubes are rife with 2nd order harmonics, which are very appealing to us humans.  I know my Lyr 3 SS/tube hybrid is a better amp, but I spend way more time listening to Valhalla 2.  With Mullard CV4003 and Brimar CV4033, and the occasional Telefunken 12AU7, VH2 is just a smoother, warmer, more relaxed sound that draws me deep into the music.  It just seems more 'organic' with more timbre -- better suited to acoustic instruments (jazz is my thing).   It makes no sense, but I'm OK with not understanding.  I'm just enjoying the music!!


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Ripper2860 said:


> Tubes are rife with 2nd order harmonics, which are very appealing to us humans.  I know my Lyr 3 SS/tube hybrid is a better amp, but I spend way more time listening to Valhalla 2.  With Mullard CV4003 and Brimar CV4033, and the occasional Telefunken 12AU7, VH2 is just a smoother, warmer, more relaxed sound that draws me deep into the music.  It just seems more 'organic' with more timbre -- better suited to acoustic instruments (jazz is my thing).   It makes no sense, but I'm OK with not understanding.  I'm just enjoying the music!!









 Some days, @Ripper2860 ... some days I feel like this guy when I look at my collection of doo-dads at my listening nook. (_source: https://giphy.com/ ; Giphy. Downloaded 09:50 EST, May 16, 2019_).


----------



## bokononista

Ripper2860 said:


> Tubes are rife with 2nd order harmonics, which are very appealing to us humans.  I know my Lyr 3 SS/tube hybrid is a better amp, but I spend way more time listening to Valhalla 2.  With Mullard CV4003 and Brimar CV4033, and the occasional Telefunken 12AU7, VH2 is just a smoother, warmer, more relaxed sound that draws me deep into the music.  It just seems more 'organic' with more timbre -- better suited to acoustic instruments (jazz is my thing).   It makes no sense, but I'm OK with not understanding.  I'm just enjoying the music!!


Can you please tell me more about Lyr 3 vs Valhalla 2? What are main differences? How the soundstage is in comparsion?


----------



## ScubaMan2017 (May 17, 2019)

bokononista said:


> Can you please tell me more about Lyr 3 vs Valhalla 2? What are main differences? How the soundstage is in comparsion?


I took a gander at Schiit's March 13/19 posting for some ideas to your question...

_And so, here we go: our current names of key technologies that we consider important.
Coherence™. This is our combobulated tube-BJT hybrid topology that delivers on the promise of hybrid designs the most, at least in our experience. *Unlike other hybrid topologies we’ve used, Coherence allows us to run a high voltage at the tube stage (better for tubes), use the tubes for voltage gain (better application of a tube’s strengths), combine the tube and transistor stages without input, output, or  coupling capacitors, and integrate it with a wide variety of output stages*, including Continuity. This topology you’ll see in *Lyr 3*, and (to a lesser extent), in *Vali 2*, though Vali still uses output coupling capacitors to simplify the power supply requirements and keep cost down.
Importance: like I said, it’s the best hybrid topology we’ve found to date, and (as far as I know), we’re the only ones using it. Hence it’s worth naming as a differentiator to all the other hybrid topologies out there.
*Found in*: Lyr 3, Vali 2
_
Source: _Buzzword Bingo_. _2019 Chapter 5_. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-2980#post-14834044 ; Accessed 09:33 EST, May 17, 2019.

&&&&&&&&&&&
Now, I understand maybe about a half of what he said there. My gut's telling me that the Lyr's soundstage is similar to my stock-tubed Vali (and even my Magni3). MY Valhalla2 (VH2) is more mellow & better paired with my 300Ohm-impedance headphones. I like having an unruly collection of brushed-aluminum boxes (compared to the compact, all-in-one, Lyr x.x). 
I also like having three different amplification technologies (100% transistor; 100% tube; hybrid) to play around with! My gut also tells me that my Magni is superior for spoken word recordings (to my ear at least). Better? Worse? Nah, just different.


----------



## bokononista

ScubaMan2017 said:


> I took a gander at Schiit's March 13/19 posting for some ideas to your question...
> 
> _And so, here we go: our current names of key technologies that we consider important.
> Coherence™. This is our combobulated tube-BJT hybrid topology that delivers on the promise of hybrid designs the most, at least in our experience. *Unlike other hybrid topologies we’ve used, Coherence allows us to run a high voltage at the tube stage (better for tubes), use the tubes for voltage gain (better application of a tube’s strengths), combine the tube and transistor stages without input, output, or  coupling capacitors, and integrate it with a wide variety of output stages*, including Continuity. This topology you’ll see in *Lyr 3*, and (to a lesser extent), in *Vali 2*, though Vali still uses output coupling capacitors to simplify the power supply requirements and keep cost down.
> ...


Thank you for your response! I had a dilema, buy Valhalla 2 or Lyr 3 just for my T1.1 with Bifrost MB, no other headphones for best sound result.


----------



## Wes S

bokononista said:


> Thank you for your response! I had a dilema, buy Valhalla 2 or Lyr 3 just for my T1.1 with Bifrost MB, no other headphones for best sound result.


You went the best route, for the 600 ohm T1.1, with Valhalla 2.  You can get some insane bass, from that combo, with the right tubes!


----------



## bokononista

Wes S said:


> You went the best route, for the 600 ohm T1.1, with Valhalla 2.  You can get some insane bass, from that combo, with the right tubes!


Good to hear! I am quite happy, just have no comparsion.


----------



## Scott Kramer (May 17, 2019)

(random post) My Tube sprallllll and management ;D --> Bought the Val2 used and he included a variety of tubes... only bought one set of 4 on my own -- lyr3 at desk now (why Val2's sitting out for the moment) Yep I'm a dork, printed a cover tall enough for socket savers.


----------



## Wes S

Scott Kramer said:


> (random post) My Tube sprallllll and management ;D --> Bought the Val2 used and he included a variety of tubes... only bought one set of 4 on my own -- lyr3 at desk now (why Val2's sitting out for the moment) Yep I'm a dork, printed a cover tall enough for socket savers.


Those are really cool wood tube holders!


----------



## Focux (May 21, 2019)

just ordered my ZMF, now apart from Feliks Echo are the Valhalla 2 worth to shortlist as well?

edit: to zmf owners, does running balanced offer any substantial improvement to your ears


----------



## Wes S (May 21, 2019)

Focux said:


> just ordered my ZMF, now apart from Feliks Echo are the Valhalla 2 worth to shortlist as well?
> 
> edit: to zmf owners, does running balanced offer any substantial improvement to your ears


 Balanced being better, really depends on the amp, and other factors.  Can't really just say balanced is better.  However, if the same amp has balanced outputs, and se outputs, the balanced are usually always better.  For the price of the Valhalla 2, it is a great way to get into tubes.  Just watch out, it is addicting and won't stop there. . .


----------



## Robert Padgett

www.facebook.com/notes/affordable-audiophile/no-hurry-to-buy-more-tubes-full-pond/2289758024677488/

For your reading at your pleasure...I don't like to force a mobile user to have a huge dump.


----------



## tricolor

Robert Padgett said:


> www.facebook.com/notes/affordable-audiophile/no-hurry-to-buy-more-tubes-full-pond/2289758024677488/
> 
> For your reading at your pleasure...I don't like to force a mobile user to have a huge dump.



Cool.... Interesting to see some sort of “scientific” and “statistical” numbers to back up “joy” and amusement...

I started mechanical engineering years ago... never finished as it was not my cup of tea. But then shifted to computer science/networking and systems administration. i have been working also with  photography and videography as my side passions.... and music...  so it’s definitely interesting to see a mix of data oriented “explaining” how cool or not music sounds...

i must confess i tend to forget the measurements and trust (or not) my ears... but it’s fun to see some stats as well... 
cheers!


----------



## Robert Padgett

tricolor said:


> Cool.... Interesting to see some sort of “scientific” and “statistical” numbers to back up “joy” and amusement...
> 
> I started mechanical engineering years ago... never finished as it was not my cup of tea. But then shifted to computer science/networking and systems administration. i have been working also with photography and videography as my side passions.... and music...  so it’s definitely interesting to see a mix of data-oriented “explaining” how cool or not music sounds...
> 
> ...




Just for Schiits and giggles, I am listening to two Tung-Sol 6SN7 made in the same year as me, 1957. No matter what I throw at that Glass is sounds rich and very Tubular-sounding--or Tubey. Why, because I can, and that is the fun part.


----------



## Robert Padgett

I am moving into a different class of tubes today. I ordered a matched pair of JJ-Electronics new production 12au7 from TubeDepot for $28. I was toying with a pair of NOS Mullard from Upscale but I don't want to invest $106 in a pair right out of the chute. 

 I am well pleased with the quality and value of the Slovakian tubes. Now if this family of tubes sound better than the 6DJ8 tubes, OK, I might be interested in a larger investment. 

For now, my days of buying cheap used tubes is over. 

I learned it was a crap-shoot, and in the end, I was settling for a less than stellar experience to save a few shekels. New Tubes should perform to spec, and get better with age. I am happy.


----------



## Vindsvelle

Greetings, everyone. I'm hoping you experienced Val users can provide some insight into my dilemma.

I'm currently in the 15 day audition period of the Valhalla with my HD 600, both bone stock, with ~50 hours cumulative load time on the Valhalla. I own a Sony STR-DG500 which, to my genuine astonishment, has proved to be an excellent SS headphone amp. Both it and the Val are fed by foobar2000 > WASAPI > cheap-o USB DAC > TOSLINK to the Sony / RCA (obviously) to the Val.

I knew to expect diminished bass response, and a somewhat compressed and possibly grainy high-end - both of which I've found respond well to EQ. But a litany of reviews told me that I would get an expanded soundstage with the Valhalla. *I haven't.* The Sony's soundstage handily trumps the Val's, which I was not expecting from an aging mediocre 6.1 AV receiver. The DAC is a cheapy, but it's the source for both units, and I have a hard time believing the difference I'm hearing is solely attributable to the STR-DG500 being TOSLINK-fed vs the Val's RCA. Which brings us to my dilemma:

*Can I reasonably achieve the soundstage I want* (up to and maybe beyond the soundstage the SS provides) *with tube rolling?* If so, with which tubes? I've heard mostly unanimous good things about the gold JJ 6922; I'd like to avoid tubes requiring adapters for the time being. Or am I barking up the wrong tree by trying to get an expansive soundstage with tubes at this pricerange?

I find the Valhalla with its stock tubes pleasing in most regards _except_ for the attribute that was my reason for upgrading in the first place. But in its present state, it is outperformed by the Sony (I never thought I'd type those words, but here we are.) Volume-matched (as closely as possible), flat, EQ'd... the STR-DG500's soundstage always wins.

I have 9 days left in my trial period, and would greatly appreciate the feedback of all you experienced Val users, 6-series owners, and tube rollers to help me make an informed decision. Thanks.


----------



## bokononista (May 28, 2019)

I have no experience with HD600 and Valhalla, I only have T1.1 and I heard HD650 only with stock tubes. HD650 had little soundstage - flat and sound was only between my ears. I think it is the headphones thing (by reviews also), but you wrote HD600 + SS soundstage is good. My T1.1 have excellent soundstage with Valhalla. Stock tubes have good depth but fuzzy imaging. The best soundstage I have is with brighter 6CG7 tubes, no adapter needed.


----------



## Vindsvelle

bokononista said:


> The best soundstage I have is with brighter 6CG7 tubes



Thanks for the reply. So in your experience, the 6CG7 increase the width & depth of the soundstage, but lend a brighter coloring to the sound signature? Any particular brand you recommend? The Electro-Harmonix are a little less per pair than the gold JJ 6922 on Amazon.

Still hunting for as much feedback as possible


----------



## bokononista (May 28, 2019)

Vindsvelle said:


> Thanks for the reply. So in your experience, the 6CG7 increase the width & depth of the soundstage, but lend a brighter coloring to the sound signature? Any particular brand you recommend? The Electro-Harmonix are a little less per pair than the gold JJ 6922 on Amazon.
> 
> Still hunting for as much feedback as possible


I have experience with Sylvania, Tung-Sol and RCA (black top) 6CG7. All of them have big soundstage. I wrote more about them in post #1148 in this threat. The soundstage is very similar - very big depth but little less wide. It is like listen to the pair of speakers. It definitelly shifts whole soundstage out of the head. Hard to describe, it is about personal experience. It may seem not ideal, but i think it should help HD600 staging. But maybe there is some HD600 limitation you cant pass. I like those headphones very much, only the soundstage is worse.

I also think that 6CG7 brings other improvements over stock tubes as better clarity, dynamics and bass (subbass). Some people are so satisfied with these tubes that they call it Vallhalla 3. In general 6CG7 are very linear so there is less difference between brands. Tung-Sols are the best for me, but very hard to get. Sylvania and RCA are very common on the ebay for example. None of my 6CG7 tubes are bright, just the Sylvania is the most warm so maybe with some highs roll-off. I always thought the soundstage information is somewhere in treble and i have experience that brighter (or not so warm) tubes almost aways have better soundstage presentation (T1 headphones are also bright headphones with excelent soundstage presentation). Popular Amperex Orange Globes tubes are also very warm for example and have very flat soundstage. So i would just avoid very warm tubes, no need to buy bright ones. There is definitelly a big difference between tubes soundstage presentation.

EDIT: The grainy high-end you were expecting with Valhalla and also weaker bass response is about tubes, I experience this only with stock tubes.
EDIT2: Maybe try those EH 6CG7 tubes, if you have not much time and can get them fast, many people likes them.


----------



## Wes S

Vindsvelle said:


> Greetings, everyone. I'm hoping you experienced Val users can provide some insight into my dilemma.
> 
> I'm currently in the 15 day audition period of the Valhalla with my HD 600, both bone stock, with ~50 hours cumulative load time on the Valhalla. I own a Sony STR-DG500 which, to my genuine astonishment, has proved to be an excellent SS headphone amp. Both it and the Val are fed by foobar2000 > WASAPI > cheap-o USB DAC > TOSLINK to the Sony / RCA (obviously) to the Val.
> 
> ...


Adapters and the WE396A tube, will give you depth and width, unmatched by any 6922.


----------



## Robert Padgett

My answer will echo a video I watched from Upscale--which Kevin explains that stock tubes are selected by the designer when they "voice" (He was talking about rolling tubes on the PrimaLuna with PrimaLuna tubes) their amplifiers. Despite that, we as "audiophiles" feel compelled to change the tubes. 
After misadventures trying to roll 6SN7 tubes (with two socket-savers and adapters) on the Valhalla, I pondered why Schiit would ship the Valhalla 2 with Russian 6N1P tubes if everyone Knew that they didn't sound good. Then I put them back in and realized that they sounded better than any of the variants I had tried. 
Hmmm...an electronic designer selecting a "stock tube" which was decent sounding, what a concept. My suggestion is to try different tubes of the 6922-type--of which there are a baker's dozen choices. I found happiness with a 6DJ8, and I awaiting a pair of 12au7 tubes (with adapters) for another variety. 
I have no experience with 6CG7.


----------



## Wes S

Robert Padgett said:


> My answer will echo a video I watched from Upscale--which Kevin explains that stock tubes are selected by the designer when they "voice" (He was talking about rolling tubes on the PrimaLuna with PrimaLuna tubes) their amplifiers. Despite that, we as "audiophiles" feel compelled to change the tubes.
> After misadventures trying to roll 6SN7 tubes (with two socket-savers and adapters) on the Valhalla, I pondered why Schiit would ship the Valhalla 2 with Russian 6N1P tubes if everyone Knew that they didn't sound good. Then I put them back in and realized that they sounded better than any of the variants I had tried.
> Hmmm...an electronic designer selecting a "stock tube" which was decent sounding, what a concept. My suggestion is to try different tubes of the 6922-type--of which there are a baker's dozen choices. I found happiness with a 6DJ8, and I awaiting a pair of 12au7 tubes (with adapters) for another variety.
> I have no experience with 6CG7.


I believe the designer's find the best - (most available, reliable, and neutral), tube they can find to put in their amps, as stock tubes.  However, I believe they all know, there are better tubes, and that the future owners will discover this, by rolling.  Now, as far as rolling other tube types, that were not part of the design, without knowing how the amp is designed, just seems strange?


----------



## bokononista

Robert Padgett said:


> My answer will echo a video I watched from Upscale--which Kevin explains that stock tubes are selected by the designer when they "voice" (He was talking about rolling tubes on the PrimaLuna with PrimaLuna tubes) their amplifiers. Despite that, we as "audiophiles" feel compelled to change the tubes.
> After misadventures trying to roll 6SN7 tubes (with two socket-savers and adapters) on the Valhalla, I pondered why Schiit would ship the Valhalla 2 with Russian 6N1P tubes if everyone Knew that they didn't sound good. Then I put them back in and realized that they sounded better than any of the variants I had tried.
> Hmmm...an electronic designer selecting a "stock tube" which was decent sounding, what a concept. My suggestion is to try different tubes of the 6922-type--of which there are a baker's dozen choices. I found happiness with a 6DJ8, and I awaiting a pair of 12au7 tubes (with adapters) for another variety.
> I have no experience with 6CG7.


Well I understand. I have read the comment from Jason Stoddard somewhere here and he wrote about his decision of tube type selection - they need tubes available in large amounts. Mike Moffat wrote here about 6N3 tubes like WE396A that it is much better than any 6922 tube but they cant use it because of availability (And they use it in Vali 2 for example - saw picture). I understand the best way is to stay near original design as possible while rolling tubes, but sometimes result is just better.


----------



## Robert Padgett

bokononista said:


> Well I understand. I have read the comment from Jason Stoddard somewhere here and he wrote about his decision of tube type selection - they need tubes available in large amounts. Mike Moffat wrote here about 6N3 tubes like WE396A that it is much better than any 6922 tube but they cant use it because of availability (And they use it in Vali 2 for example - saw picture). I understand the best way is to stay near original design as possible while rolling tubes, but sometimes result is just better.


And along the same lines, JJ Electronics, using the old Tesla plant in Slovakia also produces the ECC99 power tubes for Valhalla. I thought those were exclusive to Russian suppliers. 

On one of the Russian tube pages, I saw that 6H1P is the most popular double triode medium mu tube in Audiophile preamps. I like the 6DJ8 version, and the stock tube on the Vali 2 is a 6BZ7. My desire to make a 6H8C or 6SN7 work on Valhalla was derived from the appreciable difference heard when this type was rolled on the Vali 2. But it doesn't seem to have the same effect on Valhalla, and it is ugly.


----------



## tricolor (May 28, 2019)

Hey @Vindsvelle & folks! hope all is well!



Vindsvelle said:


> Greetings, everyone. I'm hoping you experienced Val users can provide some insight into my dilemma.
> 
> *Can I reasonably achieve the soundstage I want* (up to and maybe beyond the soundstage the SS provides) *with tube rolling?* If so, with which tubes? I've heard mostly unanimous good things about the gold JJ 6922; I'd like to avoid tubes requiring adapters for the time being. Or am I barking up the wrong tree by trying to get an expansive soundstage with tubes at this pricerange?
> 
> ...



Just my humble cents coming from someone who does NOT have an HD600... so not sure how "soundstage" for it goes... 

I have been using a Grado GS1000i with the Valhalla 2 along with a few different tubes.  I am coming from an old  SS Sony home theatre receiver,  so my "quest" for tubes started in the first place when I got  more interested in 2 channel audio instead of home theatre...

I must confess I find that the difference in rolling tends to be *QUITE subtle* AND honestly,_ "9 days" or less by now  MIGHT NOT _be enough time for you to simply sit down and enjoy the music... I am not 100% sure about the "depreciation" after the trial period, say, 1 or 2 months... BUT if you could bear with that loss, that would be my advice... just stick to it for a bit longer and listen to* music without rushing... *

Currently, I am happy with the Valhalla using an adapter,  so I am using  a NOS Mullard CV4024 (12AT7's) and I am super happy with it... but yeah, I also do enjoy the stock tubes. And I also enjoy (and tried) NOS Philips JAN6922 and  new stock JJ's... (Again, I find the differences extremely "subtle"... so for me, finding this "combo"  has been more of a practical way to use the same tubes as my other amp...).

JAN6922 are nice, but microphonic... JJ6922's are definitely a good choice.. affordable. Stock tubes are quite affordable as well. And honestly, pretty good.

Mullard's are my "choice" for now, as although silly,  I like the flare up when I turn on the pre amp / amp and of course, I think (well, I hope) NOS will last longer as well...   And on top of it, they are NOS but not crazy expensive either. And yep, it does feel like a tid bit "nicer" middle and bass... along with a good sound stage compared to the other tubes... 

Cheers!


----------



## Robert Padgett

tricolor said:


> Hey @Vindsvelle & folks! hope all is well!
> 
> -clip--
> Just my humble cents coming from someone who does NOT have an HD600... so not sure how "soundstage" for it goes...
> ...


I would concur with *SUBTLE  *being the keyword. Rolling on the Valhalla has been a study in subtle changes. I am not sure if I can discern a difference, as much as other factors which contribute to the differences like barometric pressure, weather, mood, and personal level of anxiety. 
If I am in a bad mood--nothing sounds "right" but if it is crisp and clear outside, and I awoke with a positive vibe--they all sound good. 
An Electrical Engineer, who has found great humor in my tube-rolling adventures, said that a tube either works to the specs or it doesn't. 
He said that we want to hear differences because either we paid big bucks for a "holy grail" tube, or we want to feel rewarded because we found a real bargain. But, in the end, tubes sound like tubes of similar design and specification. 
Today, the sun is shining, and I am in a good mood, so the Valhalla and the 6DJ8 tubes sound as good as I have ever heard them...


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## bokononista (May 28, 2019)

Robert Padgett said:


> I would concur with *SUBTLE  *being the keyword. Rolling on the Valhalla has been a study in subtle changes. I am not sure if I can discern a difference, as much as other factors which contribute to the differences like barometric pressure, weather, mood, and personal level of anxiety.
> If I am in a bad mood--nothing sounds "right" but if it is crisp and clear outside, and I awoke with a positive vibe--they all sound good.
> An Electrical Engineer, who has found great humor in my tube-rolling adventures, said that a tube either works to the specs or it doesn't.
> He said that we want to hear differences because either we paid big bucks for a "holy grail" tube, or we want to feel rewarded because we found a real bargain. But, in the end, tubes sound like tubes of similar design and specification.
> Today, the sun is shining, and I am in a good mood, so the Valhalla and the 6DJ8 tubes sound as good as I have ever heard them...


Depends on sensitivity. For me there are differences at the same level as between my T1 vs DT880 headphones for example. Of course there is also psychoacoustics (mood etc.). I think stock tubes are also good, sometimes i put it in and enjoy their flavor. I bought recently a different 6N1p tubes (Voshkod) to compare with stock tubes. No fuzzy imaging anymore. It is little bit better. But in general sound of this type remains (little veil, less bass amout and dynamics).


----------



## Vindsvelle

Thanks, everyone, for the thoughtful replies. I'll try to address some of your remarks with respect to my original question (which essentially was, "Can I widen the soundstage with affordable tubes?").



bokononista said:


> But maybe there is some HD600 limitation you cant pass.



I love the soundstage the HD600 is capable of, and the SONY STR-DG500 I referred to hits it right in the sweet spot. Wide, deep, immersive. I know the problem is not the 600s, but the Valhalla; I'm just trying to get that STR-DG500 soundstage out of the Val. Maybe it's not possible?



Wes S said:


> Adapters and the WE396A tube, will give you depth and width, unmatched by any 6922.



I've seen you advocate for the WE396A before during my readthrough of this thread. As stated in my OP, I am avoiding tubes which require adapters for now (unless they are affordable and come with very strong endorsements). Moreover, the WE396A are currently ~$115. _Apiece_. I'm unwilling to pay over half the MSRP of Valhalla 2 for tubes when I am unsure whether it can achieve what I want it to. *But*, I'd be willing to consider them a ways down the road if a significant widening of the soundstage can be expected.



Robert Padgett said:


> My answer will echo a video I watched from Upscale--which Kevin explains that stock tubes are selected by the designer when they "voice" (He was talking about rolling tubes on the PrimaLuna with PrimaLuna tubes) their amplifiers. Despite that, we as "audiophiles" feel compelled to change the tubes.
> After misadventures trying to roll 6SN7 tubes (with two socket-savers and adapters) on the Valhalla, I pondered why Schiit would ship the Valhalla 2 with Russian 6N1P tubes if everyone Knew that they didn't sound good. Then I put them back in and realized that they sounded better than any of the variants I had tried.



This is paradoxical for me; the anecdotes I've read vary wildly, from "The stock tubes are the best," to "The stock tubes suck," and "Different tubes can transform the Valhalla's sound." It's difficult to know where to land. The general consensus however seems to be that affordable tubes can change (widen / deepen) the soundstage for the better.



tricolor said:


> I must confess I find that the difference in rolling tends to be *QUITE subtle* AND honestly,_ "9 days" or less by now MIGHT NOT _be enough time for you to simply sit down and enjoy the music... I am not 100% sure about the "depreciation" after the trial period, say, 1 or 2 months... BUT if you could bear with that loss, that would be my advice... just stick to it for a bit longer and listen to* music without rushing... *



I appreciate the constructive advice here, but I'm unsure of whether there's a consensus on burn-in time. I've heard "a few hours cumulatively is enough" (IIRC Steve Hoffman himself said that in a tube thread), as well as "at least 200 hours". The Valhalla I'm auditioning sits at just over 50 hours with the stock tubes. I noticed an improvement inside the first 20 hours or so, but I think I've hit a wall of diminishing returns where any improvement isn't perceptible?



tricolor said:


> JAN6922 are nice, but microphonic... JJ6922's are definitely a good choice.. affordable. Stock tubes are quite affordable as well. And honestly, pretty good.



Interesting. JJ6922s keep coming up in my "ancedotal research."

Unfortunately I'm still equivocal on the matter of whether different tubes can improve the Valhalla's soundstage. All of its strengths are great, and all of its deficiencies I've managed to satisfactorily EQ -- _except_ the one attribute I bought it for! Maddening.

Thanks for the feedback so far, everyone! Still soliciting any recommendations for soundstage-improving tubes


----------



## Robert Padgett

Vindsvelle said:


> Thanks, everyone, for the thoughtful replies. I'll try to address some of your remarks with respect to my original question (which essentially was, "Can I widen the soundstage with affordable tubes?").
> 
> This is paradoxical for me; the anecdotes I've read vary wildly, from "The stock tubes are the best," to "The stock tubes suck," and "Different tubes can transform the Valhalla's sound." It's difficult to know where to land. The general consensus, however, seems to be that affordable tubes can change (widen/deepen) the soundstage for the better.
> 
> ...



My only advice is to trust your ears and remember Tubes sound differently from one day to the next. Typically we power them down overnight and power up in the morning. I found that some tubes actually sounded better if I left them powered up--the 1951 6H8C ribbed-plate Fotons -- I don't think it is a long-term strategy, but it was a surprising revelation that a good day was needed for them to achieve optimum sound. 

Welcome to the Hobby, and to the thread, we are all newbies when compared to some of the wisdom you will find here.


----------



## judson_w

Vindsvelle said:


> Both it and the Val are fed by foobar2000 > WASAPI > cheap-o USB DAC > TOSLINK to the Sony / RCA (obviously) to the Val.



I am going to throw my two cents in here.  For fun, have you tried using the cheap-o USB DAC to the Sony via the RCA?  I am not going to state that this will 100% highlight the issue, but with my understanding, with your current setup, the DAC is just acting as a USB to TOSLINK converter of the digital signal (which could affect things, but for the sake of simplicity, we will say does not).  At which point differences you are hearing could be due to both differences between the Sony's DAC and the cheap-o DAC as well as differences in the Valhalla's headphone output and the Sony's headphone output.

If you have not tried using the RCA from the cheap-o DAC to the Sony, it might be good to see how that affect's what you hear from the Sony.  It is possible you will find that the Sony's quality drops.  Or not.


----------



## tricolor

Vindsvelle said:


> I appreciate the constructive advice here, but I'm unsure of whether there's a consensus on burn-in time. I've heard "a few hours cumulatively is enough" (IIRC Steve Hoffman himself said that in a tube thread), as well as "at least 200 hours". The Valhalla I'm auditioning sits at just over 50 hours with the stock tubes. I noticed an improvement inside the first 20 hours or so, but I think I've hit a wall of diminishing returns where any improvement isn't perceptible?
> 
> Thanks for the feedback so far, everyone! Still soliciting any recommendations for soundstage-improving tubes




hmmmm, I should have mentioned that I don’t believe in crazy long burn in times... my point was  more of leaning towards the psychoacoustic  and “eagerness”  to hear the difference when we are rushing... and for me, in particular,  the fact that i am in a remote location and that it would take probably 2 weeks for me to receive the tubes if i order them online... 

yeah, i agree.. i think after 20-30 hours I 
don’t think my ears and equipment can resolve the subtle changes... if any! 

cheers!


----------



## bokononista

Vindsvelle said:


> I love the soundstage the HD600 is capable of, and the SONY STR-DG500 I referred to hits it right in the sweet spot. Wide, deep, immersive. I know the problem is not the 600s, but the Valhalla; I'm just trying to get that STR-DG500 soundstage out of the Val. Maybe it's not possible?


Anybody know SONY STR-DG500? Is it possible it is just a better amp?


----------



## judson_w

It is possible.  It is also possible if the set up is the cheap-o dac goes directly to the valhalla, that dac is not as good as the Sony's DAC.

I had suggested trying running the RCAs from the cheap-o dac to the Sony to see how that affects the sound of the Sony.  Another possible suggestion is to run the RCAs from the Sony's Tape Out to the Valhalla.  This should take the line level from the Sony's DAC and send it through the Valhalla, bypassing the Sony's volume control and such.  (So, if you do have speakers hooked up to it, you can turn the volume all the way down and signal will still be sent to the Valhalla).

This is probably the better comparison between the two headphone amp sections.

(Note @Vindsvelle, if that is how you do have it set up, I apologize.  In the initial description, I read it as the TOSLINK from the cheap-o dac goes to the Sony and the RCA from the cheap-o dac goes to the Valhalla).


----------



## tricolor

Hey @Wes S , folks! Hope all is well!



Wes S said:


> I believe the designer's find the best - (most available, reliable, and neutral), tube they can find to put in their amps, as stock tubes.  However, I believe they all know, there are better tubes, and that the future owners will discover this, by rolling.  Now, as far as rolling other tube types, that were not part of the design, without knowing how the amp is designed, just seems strange?



That is a "question" that was bugging my head... Is there an "active" adapter? Where "resistors" or any other electronic component would "fine tune"  voltages & currents to make a tube work under  the "specs" the original tube was designed for? It sounds "weird", but feels despite different designs, lots of tubes share "similar" specs...

Cheers!


----------



## Vindsvelle

judson_w said:


> (Note @Vindsvelle, if that is how you do have it set up, I apologize. In the initial description, I read it as the TOSLINK from the cheap-o dac goes to the Sony and the RCA from the cheap-o dac goes to the Valhalla).



That is indeed how I have it set up.

(For the sake of explicitness, I'll mention that the cheap-o DAC is my sole means of utilizing USB audio, as sound files are my only music source. So regrettably the USB DAC has to be somewhere in the chain.)



judson_w said:


> I had suggested trying running the RCAs from the cheap-o dac to the Sony to see how that affects the sound of the Sony. Another possible suggestion is to run the RCAs from the Sony's Tape Out to the Valhalla. This should take the line level from the Sony's DAC and send it through the Valhalla, bypassing the Sony's volume control and such. (So, if you do have speakers hooked up to it, you can turn the volume all the way down and signal will still be sent to the Valhalla).



Hey, thank you for both of your recommendations.

I neglected to mention that that exact procedure, of the USB DAC vs the Sony DAC, had occurred to me before posting here; I had tried the DAC > TOSLINK > Sony > Tape-Out RCA > Val method, but the Sony just did _not_ want to output any signal to its Tape-Out RCA with TOSLINK connected, irrespective of the output I selected. I'll monkey some more when I next have time, including trying your suggestion of using DAC > RCA > Sony > RCA > Val.

I don't anticipate too much of a difference - I know my mini USB DAC uses a very old PCM2704 chip, but the Sony's is even older, being an approx. ~16 year old unit - but I'm really _hoping_ there is a difference, because that could mean the solution would be to just get an actually decent DAC.

I'm not optimistic, but how nice would it be if it turned out to be that simple?

Will update with any relevant results. 

In the meantime, if anyone's experienced a notable widening of soundstage with a certain tube pairing, please feel free to chime in. And thanks to all of you for indulging my frustrated search


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Vindsvelle said:


> Greetings, everyone. I'm hoping you experienced Val users can provide some insight into my dilemma.
> 
> I'm currently in the 15 day audition period of the Valhalla with my HD 600, both bone stock, with ~50 hours cumulative load time on the Valhalla. I own a Sony STR-DG500 which, to my genuine astonishment, has proved to be an excellent SS headphone amp. Both it and the Val are fed by foobar2000 > WASAPI > cheap-o USB DAC > TOSLINK to the Sony / RCA (obviously) to the Val.
> .....{snip}.......
> ...


Welcome to the thread, @Vindsvelle ! My 2 cents = if you want to mess around with different effects, I noticed the most dramatic results with my Vali 2. When I roll different tubes within it, my HD6xx (similar to your HD600) pick it up right away. I've had my new toy (Valhalla2 [stock SN2P & different flavours of SN1P paired tubes]). I can't detect the the differences. Your mileage may vary, however, you might have more luck with another model (if rolling + significantly different effects is your main goal). Meh, I'm happy with my toys. 

BTW, would you consider upgrading your devices feeding your amplifier? *Re: *el cheapo DAC... that might benefit from an upgrade (Modi 3 or perhaps a Dragonfly?). Foobar's what I use and I particularly like its Win7 version (I use its Replay Gain mode). *Re:* your music files.... AAC? FLAC? ALAC? high-bit-rate-MP3?


----------



## judson_w

Vindsvelle said:


> Hey, thank you for both of your recommendations.
> 
> I neglected to mention that that exact procedure, of the USB DAC vs the Sony DAC, had occurred to me before posting here; I had tried the DAC > TOSLINK > Sony > Tape-Out RCA > Val method, but the Sony just did _not_ want to output any signal to its Tape-Out RCA with TOSLINK connected, irrespective of the output I selected. I'll monkey some more when I next have time, including trying your suggestion of using DAC > RCA > Sony > RCA > Val.
> 
> ...



I am generally not optimistic either, but it is nice when simple issues like this happen.  That being said, it is also my understanding that while the DAC chip does a bit, there is generally still an analog stage after it in a DAC to get the signal to line level which could also affect things.

Best of luck.


----------



## Robert Padgett

Today, a matched pair of JJ-Electronics 12AU7 tubes arrived, and they sound great right out of the chute. I went ahead and ordered the JJ-Electronics ECC99 power tubes for my Valhalla, and I am going All-Slovakian... the stock Russian tubes will be my back-up set in case I burn out a valve, or pull the whole rig to the floor, by snagging the HP cable in my wheelchair wheels. I bought a JJ 6SN7 brand new and it impressed me. The former Tesla plant is doing something right. I thought the only replacement tubes for the Power tubes were Russian, so glad that JJ-Electronics are making them. I was told not to expect much change in SQ by switching power tubes...we will see.


----------



## Vindsvelle

ScubaMan2017 said:


> BTW, would you consider upgrading your devices feeding your amplifier? *Re: *el cheapo DAC... that might benefit from an upgrade (Modi 3 or perhaps a Dragonfly?). Foobar's what I use and I particularly like its Win7 version (I use its Replay Gain mode). *Re:* your music files.... AAC? FLAC? ALAC? high-bit-rate-MP3?



Hey ScubaMan2017 - Yes, I'll definitely be upgrading my DAC, to either a Topping D30 or the ubiquitous Modi 3, as you mentioned.

I really like foobar too!. Been using it for 12 or 13 years. I wrote several of my own scripts for file renaming and directory generation with various schema (based on metadata fields, pulled from the Discogs plugin) for indexing new downloads with two keystrokes (including contingencies for compilations, collaborations, codec, etc.); same with mass automated ReplayGain scanning and applying (i.e. it allocates ReplayGain data in Album mode to each album, based on tags). I love customizable, hyper-efficient automation and foobar has endlessly useful utilities My library's about as meticulously organized as any you'll find on the Soulseek network.

100% of my Valhalla testing has been conducted with FLAC.



judson_w said:


> I am generally not optimistic either, but it is nice when simple issues like this happen. That being said, it is also my understanding that while the DAC chip does a bit, there is generally still an analog stage after it in a DAC to get the signal to line level which could also affect things.



I'm hoping that something like this is potentially to blame, and that a simple DAC upgrade (something I've been meaning to do for a while anyway) may be part of the answer. But it seems very unlikely.

My friend brought his JDS O2 Amp/DAC over (it had no RCA outs) and we used a 3.5mm > RCA cable (the same I'd used when trying my Cowon Plenue D as a source straight to the Valhalla) to see whether the Val's soundstage was improved relative to solid state and... nope.

Is the Valhalla's average-seeming soundstage characteristic of most tube amps? Could I expect a wider soundstage from the Crack, or the Darkvoice (both of which I'd considered before pulling the trigger on the Valhalla)?


----------



## bokononista

Robert Padgett said:


> Today, a matched pair of JJ-Electronics 12AU7 tubes arrived, and they sound great right out of the chute. I went ahead and ordered the JJ-Electronics ECC99 power tubes for my Valhalla, and I am going All-Slovakian... the stock Russian tubes will be my back-up set in case I burn out a valve, or pull the whole rig to the floor, by snagging the HP cable in my wheelchair wheels. I bought a JJ 6SN7 brand new and it impressed me. The former Tesla plant is doing something right. I thought the only replacement tubes for the Power tubes were Russian, so glad that JJ-Electronics are making them. I was told not to expect much change in SQ by switching power tubes...we will see.


Can you desribe the sound improvement more please? What kind of adapters do you use? I am very interested now, I am from the Czech Republic and never tried any JJs yet


----------



## bokononista (May 31, 2019)

Vindsvelle said:


> Hey ScubaMan2017 - Yes, I'll definitely be upgrading my DAC, to either a Topping D30 or the ubiquitous Modi 3, as you mentioned.......
> Is the Valhalla's average-seeming soundstage characteristic of most tube amps? Could I expect a wider soundstage from the Crack, or the Darkvoice (both of which I'd considered before pulling the trigger on the Valhalla)?


I do not reply to DAC questions often, because i dont have a strong opinion because of the whole debate about measurements. I have heard Modi 3 and it is very good DAC. I have a Bifrost Multibit and it does have a different presentation than delta-sigma. I think it does have a better soundstage presentation than Modi 3 and the sound is more analog like - i like the multibit more for Valhalla because tubes are also more analog like and sound more natural.
The Valhalla has very good soundstage presentation and very wide and deep in comparsion with solid states (i have heard). This is the main reason i have it. This is also very common opinion in Valhalla comments and reviews. I just dont know why you dont have such an experience (many possibilities).


----------



## KoshNaranek

Robert Padgett said:


> Today, a matched pair of JJ-Electronics 12AU7 tubes arrived, and they sound great right out of the chute. I went ahead and ordered the JJ-Electronics ECC99 power tubes for my Valhalla, and I am going All-Slovakian... the stock Russian tubes will be my back-up set in case I burn out a valve, or pull the whole rig to the floor, by snagging the HP cable in my wheelchair wheels. I bought a JJ 6SN7 brand new and it impressed me. The former Tesla plant is doing something right. I thought the only replacement tubes for the Power tubes were Russian, so glad that JJ-Electronics are making them. I was told not to expect much change in SQ by switching power tubes...we will see.


Have approved this swap with Schiit? or are you just trying this based on tube spec sheet?
In other words, what is your source that this substitution will work?
References please


----------



## Robert Padgett (May 31, 2019)

bokononista said:


> Can you desribe the sound improvement more please? What kind of adapters do you use? I am very interested now, I am from the Czech Republic and never tried any JJs yet


Broader soundstage, right from the start. Similar to the 6SN7 tubes, but not "Bloated sounding" like the 6SN7 variants. I had resolved to stick with 6922-type tubes, and used the stock 6N1P tubes along with a matched pair of 6DJ8. The 12AU7 has the soundstage of the 6SN7 with punchy bass, and well-balanced midrange of the 6DJ8. I was so impressed I ordered the ECC99 tubes also, to replace the stock tubes from Schiit entirely. I am using a pair of gold pin adapters I purchased from Aliexpress. The hole size of the Valhalla 2 is sufficient that I can plug them directly in the sockets without adding socket-savers as spacers. Maybe I am a bit biased, but I really think JJ Electronics is a premier tube manufacturer.


----------



## Robert Padgett

KoshNaranek said:


> Have approved this swap with Schiit? or are you just trying this based on tube spec sheet?
> In other words, what is your source that this substitution will work?
> References please


I see no reason to check with Schiit to see if the substitution will work. Other tube rollers on this forum have been using both 12au7 and 12at7 tubes with great success. I am trying it, not based on tube spec sheets, but because I had purchased a 6SN7 from JJ-Electronics new and used it on the Vali 2, and I liked its sound. I am replacing the ECC99 (6N6P) power tubes with JJ-Electronics to see if that makes further improvement. The substitution works, and my ears are all the proof I need. It sounds Great, and I would recommend those tubes to anyone. The JJ-Electronics tubes are relatively cheap compared to NOS vintage tubes.


----------



## judson_w

Vindsvelle said:


> My friend brought his JDS O2 Amp/DAC over (it had no RCA outs) and we used a 3.5mm > RCA cable (the same I'd used when trying my Cowon Plenue D as a source straight to the Valhalla) to see whether the Val's soundstage was improved relative to solid state and... nope.
> 
> Is the Valhalla's average-seeming soundstage characteristic of most tube amps? Could I expect a wider soundstage from the Crack, or the Darkvoice (both of which I'd considered before pulling the trigger on the Valhalla)?



Shame that it did not affect things.  While part of me wants to ask if you tried the JDS O2 Amp/DAC to the Sony, that is me nitpicking for thoroughness.  It sounds like you have done enough tests to settle your own mind.

I cannot answer as to soundstage.  I have had some enjoyable moments with my valhalla, including listening to Rhiannon Giddens' "Baby Boy", where I was startled at the start of the second verse because it sounded like she was singing just behind my left shoulder.  However I would also have to admit that before I had the HD600s with the Valhalla 2, I was listening to ten year old Bose Quiet Comforts through a cheap Sherwood stereo receiver.  (Note: The Bose were good, but the HD600s are much better in my mind).  The clarity of the HD600s are great and I find them spacious enough for my liking.  If they were more spacious with something, I would be pleasantly surprised, but I am not hunting yet for that.

Of course, there is a lot of subjectivity when it comes to audio.  I hope someone else can provide an answer of the Valhalla vs Crack vs Darkvoice.


----------



## bokononista (May 31, 2019)

Robert Padgett said:


> I was so impressed I ordered the ECC99 tubes also.


Does theese need some adapter?

Did you buy gold pins JJ or normal 12AU7 and ECC99?


----------



## Robert Padgett

bokononista said:


> Does theese need some adapter?
> 
> Did you buy gold pins JJ or normal 12AU7 and ECC99?


Just bought the regular, without gold pins, and the ECC99 are direct drop-ins for the 6N6P power tubes, no adapter needed.  I am listening right now, and the JJ Tubes are very good sounding on day two...


----------



## KoshNaranek

Robert Padgett said:


> I see no reason to check with Schiit to see if the substitution will work. Other tube rollers on this forum have been using both 12au7 and 12at7 tubes with great success. I am trying it, not based on tube spec sheets, but because I had purchased a 6SN7 from JJ-Electronics new and used it on the Vali 2, and I liked its sound. I am replacing the ECC99 (6N6P) power tubes with JJ-Electronics to see if that makes further improvement. The substitution works, and my ears are all the proof I need. It sounds Great, and I would recommend those tubes to anyone. The JJ-Electronics tubes are relatively cheap compared to NOS vintage tubes.


My Apologies for not being clear. My question was regarding the ECC99 tubes. The spec sheet implies that they are similar to the 6n6p but not the same.

Did you rely on the spec sheet or did you confirm with Schiit?

After trying the ECC99, is there a difference from the 6n6p? If so, can you please describe it? I specifically would like to know if you tried the ECC99 in isolation to other factors.

Thank you


----------



## Robert Padgett

KoshNaranek said:


> My Apologies for not being clear. My question was regarding the ECC99 tubes. The spec sheet implies that they are similar to the 6n6p but not the same.
> 
> Did you rely on the spec sheet or did you confirm with Schiit?
> 
> ...



The ECC99 tubes are on order, so no comparison yet. It is my understanding the 6N6P tubes are often also designated as ECC99, and it appears that only JJ Electronics is the sole manufacturer outside of China or Russia. There is a small variation in Spec, as would found comparing the stock 6N1P driver tubes to other 6922-type tubes. I am making the assumption that this tube should perform in a similar manner.

From a post in 2011 from DIY Audio: FWIW

"They're all closely related, but not identical. 
6N6P is a Russian-made twin triode (medium mu, 9 pin mini). Pin-out is same as ECC88, 6DJ8, and kin. 6.3V filament on pins 4 and 5. 
ECC99 is a similar European tube, but slightly higher mu, slightly higher anode resistance, a little different electrically from 6N6P. Pin-out is same as 6N6P, 6.3-volt filament."

I am speculating, but I think they should be OK substitutes. We will see...


----------



## Vindsvelle

Robert Padgett said:


> Broader soundstage, right from the start.



Broader soundstage, you say!? That pricked my ears right up; sounds like exactly what I'm looking for. And they're a fraction of the cost of the gold pin 6922 I was going to order. (You're talking about these guys, right?)

I saw you said you didn't get the gold-pinned versions, but is there a specific adapter link you'd recommend?


----------



## Robert Padgett

Those are the ones. There are a number of 12a*7 to 6922 adapters available on ebay. I purchased mine from Aliexpress, bypassing eBay. I am not sure what advantage the gold-pins add to the mix except they are more expensive. I have been told that it is not an issue, unless the tube gets corrosion on the pins...which sounds like we are paying to correct a problem that may never exist, and easly solved if it arises--a small wire brush will clean the non-gold pins back to shiny and new...


----------



## maxnak4

Anyone have experience with Orel 6N1Ps? Schiit sent me a replacement set of tubes after one of my 6N6Ps cracked and one of the preamp tubes they sent was an Orel and the other was a Voskod. The original preamp tubes they sent were both Voskod so I’m curious how it’ll sound once broken in.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

maxnak4 said:


> Anyone have experience with Orel 6N1Ps? Schiit sent me a replacement set of tubes after one of my 6N6Ps cracked and one of the preamp tubes they sent was an Orel and the other was a Voskod. The original preamp tubes they sent were both Voskod so I’m curious how it’ll sound once broken in.


Interesting. Take a quick image of these chunks of glass?


----------



## maxnak4 (Jun 3, 2019)

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Interesting. Take a quick image of these chunks of glass?









  These are the second “set” they sent me. And these 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  are the first set. I’m currently using the matched rockets, although one is from the 80s and the other from the 70s.


----------



## KoshNaranek

Robert Padgett said:


> The ECC99 tubes are on order, so no comparison yet. It is my understanding the 6N6P tubes are often also designated as ECC99, and it appears that only JJ Electronics is the sole manufacturer outside of China or Russia. There is a small variation in Spec, as would found comparing the stock 6N1P driver tubes to other 6922-type tubes. I am making the assumption that this tube should perform in a similar manner.
> 
> From a post in 2011 from DIY Audio: FWIW
> 
> ...


Radiomuseum.org states the heater on the 6n6p is 6.3 volts and 0.75  amps. The ECC99 is 12.6 volts and.0.4 amps. Are you planning on connecting the heaters in parallel?


----------



## Robert Padgett (Jun 3, 2019)

KoshNaranek said:


> Radiomuseum.org states the heater on the 6n6p is 6.3 volts and 0.75  amps. The ECC99 is 12.6 volts and.0.4 amps. Are you planning on connecting the heaters in parallel?


No, I just plugged them in and was astounded how much better they sounded than the Schiit Stock 6N6P. They are playing right now, no blue smoke and sweet Music fills the air.

I suppose they could be wired differently, but when I read that they shared the same pin-out and electrical properties as the 6N6P, I figured they would work. And they worked better than I anticipated.

So many folks have said that rolling the power tubes would not yield much difference in SQ, I will heartily disagree. Maybe switching two Russian Tubes may not make any difference, but the JJ-Electronics version certainly sounds different and better--to my ears. I will recommend that matched ECC99 and matched 12AU7 with adapters. They are giving me a much better product in my transducers...I am not trying out any other tubes.
I have the stock as a back-up should breakage occur, I have the 6DJ8 "Unknown" tubes to drop in for a different flavor.

The 6SN7 variants I tried didn't do much for me in addition to being wobbly atop two socket-savers and 6SN7 adapters. ...and they were just Butt-Ugly


----------



## Robert Padgett

bokononista said:


> Can you describe the sound improvement more, please? What kind of adapters do you use? I am very interested now, I am from the Czech Republic and never tried any JJs yet


Well, they sound better. Gone is the gritty harshness in the Treble, gone is the bloated midrange, and the Bass is Punchy but controlled. This could be an ideal set-up of tubes for the Valhalla 2. JJ 12AU7 (ECC82) and JJ-Electronics ECC-99, both are gain matched, and together, the synergy is the best thing I have heard in my Sennheiser 6XX headphones.

My suggestion--Buy from the neighbor--in Slovakia, and I don't think you will regret my advice.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jun 3, 2019)

@Robert Padgett  -- I'll be curious to see how long they continue sounding good.  As stated the ECC99 needs a 12.6v heater and the 6N6P needs a 6.3v heater.  The ECC99 is running at 1/2 the required/designed heater voltage.  If a tube is not getting the required heater power it may still operate, but it's life will likely be cut short as it is not getting hot enough to boil off electrons from the coatings at the reate required for optimal operation.  This can result in 'cathode poisoning' which impedes gain and in extreme cases increases resistance between cathode and anode which can causes the tube to fail conducting and possibly damage the amp.  I would personally recommend NOT using it in VH2.


----------



## tricolor

Hey @Robert Padgett  & @Ripper2860 ! Hope all is well!




Wes S said:


> Actually the good 12au7 go for just as much as the 6922.  Look up a Mullard D getter 12au7.





Ripper2860 said:


> @Robert Padgett  -- I'll be curious to see how long they continue sounding good.  As stated the ECC99 needs a 12.6v heater and the 6N6P needs a 6.3v heater.  The ECC99 is running at 1/2 the required/designed heater voltage.  If a tube is not getting the required heater power it may still operate, but it's life will likely be cut short as it is not getting hot enough to boil off electrons from the coatings as designed.  This can result in 'cathode poisoning' which impedes gain and in extreme cases increases resistance between cathode and anode which can causes the tube to fail conducting and possibly damage the amp.  I would personally recommend NOT using it in VH2.



hmmmmm, I have NO "electrical engineering background", so please... don't kill me...  Just thinking out loud, hehe... IF it's running at LOWER then the designed settings...  wouldn't it last LONGER instead? (although probably NOT giving the BEST results as "expected") or the slightly higher AMPERAGE would make  it have an earlier DEATH?  

Maybe it is like running an engine "outside" the "optimum" torque vs. speed kind of thing? And shift gears at the "wrong" time then?

Again... just got curious... 

thanks!


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jun 3, 2019)

I thought the same thing until I was 'schooled'.    If you don't run a tube as hot as it's designed to operate, the oxides will develop and continue to add a coating that adds resistance causing the tube to prematurely degrade / stop functioning.  The resistive coating developed can cause the tube to quit conducting current between the cathode and anode and could damage an amp.

Your logic is understandable and may be better suited to solid state, but not so much for tubes.  They must boil off electrons at a certain rate and to do so must reach a designated temp.


----------



## Robert Padgett

Ripper2860 said:


> I thought the same thing until I was 'schooled'.    If you don't run a tube as hot as it's designed to operate, the oxides will develop and continue to add a coating that adds resistance causing the tube to prematurely degrade / stop functioning.  The resistive coating developed can cause the tube to quit conducting current between the cathode and anode and could damage an amp.
> 
> Your logic is understandable and may be better suited to solid state, but not so much for tubes.  They must boil off electrons at a certain rate and to do so must reach a designated temp.


@Ripper2860, I see the 6N6P tubes marketed as ECC99 on three Russian tube sites. JJ Electronics said that their tube would work with 6.3 v on the filament. 

You know I very new at this, but the only reference into any differences noted that ECC99 has slightly higher Mu (VoltageGain). They sound great. If they crap out in 6 months, I will know better than to try this experiment again. Likewise, if they get any better sounding, I might just EXPLODE...


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jun 3, 2019)

I'm not really familiar with the ECC99 and there seems to be conflicting info on ECC99 vs 6N6P.  If the MFG says it's a 6.3v compatible tube then who am I to argue with them.  Just keep an ear on them and listen for any hissing and sound degradation over time.


----------



## Robert Padgett

Ripper2860 said:


> From what I read, JJ did deviate from the ECC99 specs (according to specs ECC99 is supposed to be a 7-pin tube), so maybe they did play with heater voltage, as well.  ECC99 is more akin to a 12AX7 than a 6N6P, from what I can find and do keep in mind that not all tubes can operate at dual voltage.  If the MFG says it's a 6.3v compatible tube, then who am I to argue with them.  Just keep an ear on them and listen for any hissing and sound degradation over time.




I have done google searches and have found answers that ranged from "No difference" to one fellow whose tube went out in a blaze upon power-up. It appears that it is a very controversial topic, with as many opinions as opinionators.  I am just enjoying them, and we will see if they are a flash in the pan. Reading various forums, it looks like about 50-50, red/black, and coin flip territory


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jun 3, 2019)

Yep -- it's a dual voltage tube offering 6.3v and 12.6v heater voltage.   And falls below 6N6P in current draw, from what I've found.

I wonder how these compare to my Foton gold grids?


----------



## Robert Padgett (Jun 3, 2019)

Ripper2860 said:


> Yep; -- it's a dual voltage tube.  6.3v and 12.6v.




Whew! I am glad we cleared that up. I was getting ready to call the White House and see if POTUS would mind calling Vlad to confirm... (You Know those Russian tubes could be microphonic....)


----------



## KoshNaranek

Ripper2860 said:


> I thought the same thing until I was 'schooled'.    If you don't run a tube as hot as it's designed to operate, the oxides will develop and continue to add a coating that adds resistance causing the tube to prematurely degrade / stop functioning.  The resistive coating developed can cause the tube to quit conducting current between the cathode and anode and could damage an amp.
> 
> Your logic is understandable and may be better suited to solid state, but not so much for tubes.  They must boil off electrons at a certain rate and to do so must reach a designated temp.


Ripper, do you have a reference?


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jun 4, 2019)

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/cathode-poisoning/

https://www.w8ji.com/filament_voltage_life.htm -- Check Rules for Filament Voltage section.

http://www.emissionlabs.com/Articles/TECH-BULLETIN/TB-05-Heater-Voltage/TB-05-Heater-Voltage.htm 



> Mechanisms
> 
> Tubes have a balance inside, to maintain emission.
> 
> ...


----------



## maxnak4

Scrolling though old messages I noticed the whole ECC99 topic has been discussed already, might want to take a look at page 19 and see what conclusions were made.


feilb said:


> Bob,
> 
> I'm about 99% sure that ECC99 does not have the same pinout as 6N6P. ECC99 and E182CC both have the dual voltage heater. The 6N6P only has 6.3V heater.
> 
> ...


----------



## maxnak4 (Jun 6, 2019)

Anyone have any recommendations for tubes to tame treble a bit? My main headphones are HD6XX and I find the treble to be a bit harsh/grainy with the stock tubes. I have roughly 150 hours on the tubes so I think they’re pretty much done breaking in. I listen to a fair amount of rock/metal so if anyone knows any that play well with those genres that’s a bonus. Better 3D imaging would be nice as well, but doesn’t bother me nearly as much as the fatiguing highs.


----------



## bokononista (Jun 6, 2019)

maxnak4 said:


> Anyone have any recommendations for tubes to tame treble a bit? My main headphones are HD6XX and I find the treble to be a bit harsh/grainy with the stock tubes. I have roughly 150 hours on the tubes so I think they’re pretty much done breaking in. I listen to a fair amount of rock/metal so if anyone knows any that play well with those genres that’s a bonus. Better 3D imaging would be nice as well, but doesn’t bother me nearly as much as the fatiguing highs.


Valhalla with stock tubes does have a little bit grainy treble. I found that almost any other tubes than 6N1P does not have grainy treble. There are a lot of warmer tubes like Amperex Orange Globes (or Bungle boys), it does have a good 3D imaging (but not so much depth). But i think you dont need the warmest tube (but depends on your treble sensitivity), because HD6XX treble is little recessed already. For excelent imaging try to get Western Electric 396A (laser precision imaging), adapter needed. It is also tube with excelent midrange.


----------



## Robert Padgett

maxnak4 said:


> Anyone have any recommendations for tubes to tame treble a bit? My main headphones are HD6XX and I find the treble to be a bit harsh/grainy with the stock tubes. I have roughly 150 hours on the tubes so I think they’re pretty much done breaking in. I listen to a fair amount of rock/metal so if anyone knows any that play well with those genres that’s a bonus. Better 3D imaging would be nice as well but doesn’t bother me nearly as much as the fatiguing highs.


I have found that 6DJ8 tubes are less strident than the stock 6N1P, and with an adapter, I am really enjoying the JJ Electronic ECC82 tubes (12AU7), I also use the ECC99 from JJ Electronic in place of the stock 6N6P which had a remarkable improvement in the overall sound. I listen to everything from hard rock, Metal, Classical and as of late, Electronica (Deadmau5, Giorgio Moroder, and Martin Garrix) --everything sound well-balanced. (I too use the 6XX HPs which are very well suited and pair well with Valhalla 2)


----------



## Robert Padgett

maxnak4 said:


> Scrolling through old messages I noticed the whole ECC99 topic has been discussed already, might want to take a look at page 19 and see what conclusions were made.



If we look at the technical data provided by JJ Electronic, it says that the ECC99 are wired for 6.3 filament voltage, I notice that even the Russian tube sites regularly identify their valves as "6N6P/ECC99..." which implies interchangeability. 

I appreciate everyone's concern, but they have been in use almost a week--no sizzling bacon sound effects or clouds of blue smoke, so they must be functional in this amplifier, and they sound significantly better than the stock 6N6P tubes from an unknown Russian provenance--after being told that "rolling" the power tubes would not make any difference. 
That may well be true if you are going from one Russian 6N6P to another 6N6P--but it certainly has not been my experience with a matched pairs of JJ Electronic ECC82 and ECC99.   
My conclusion is that JJ Electronic has made their tubes compatible, while the old Soviet-era stock may not be as interchangeable. It certainly has some controversy around it.


----------



## Ripper2860

Robert Padgett said:


> I appreciate everyone's concern, but they have been in use almost a week--no sizzling bacon sound effects or clouds of blue smoke, so they must be functional in this amplifier



Or at least that's what they want you to think while they instill a false sense of security before lowering the BOOM!!!


----------



## Robert Padgett

Ripper2860 said:


> Or at least that's what they want you to think while they instill a false sense of security before lowering the BOOM!!!


Someone had to eat the first raw oyster


----------



## Ripper2860

Yep.  And somebody had to be the first to die from Vibrio bacteria infection.


----------



## Robert Padgett

Maybe I need to buy a couple 6N6P tubes as a back up. I saw some on Etsy that were cheaper by the dozen...www.etsy.com/listing/246599827/6n6p-ecc99-e182cc-soviet-vacuum-tubes

10 for $25 or two for $28...hmmmm


----------



## Ripper2860

Sweet deal!!


----------



## Robert Padgett

Ripper2860 said:


> Sweet deal!!


I ordered the 4 for $12 plus $8.50 shipping from Europe--$5 each (who needs 10 cheap Russian tubes, not me)
I should now have a lifetime supply of power tubes for my Valhalla...jeez, this tube-buying peer pressure is really crushing


----------



## ScubaMan2017

bokononista said:


> Valhalla with stock tubes does have a little bit grainy treble. I found that almost any other tubes than 6N1P does not have grainy treble. There are a lot of warmer tubes like Amperex Orange Globes (or Bungle boys), it does have a good 3D imaging (but not so much depth). But i think you dont need the warmest tube (but depends on your treble sensitivity), because HD6XX treble is little recessed already. For excelent imaging try to get Western Electric 396A (laser precision imaging), adapter needed. It is also tube with excelent midrange.


Would you consider picking up a Loki Mini? Analog EQ. Install it between your source-and-amplifier. I used it knock off the sharp edges of some of my recordings. My 2 cents...


----------



## tricolor

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Would you consider picking up a Loki Mini? Analog EQ. Install it between your source-and-amplifier. I used it knock off the sharp edges of some of my recordings. My 2 cents...



I also think EQ’ing works well to fine tune the sound.... i’m currently using an old adc sound shaper... and it does help a lot.... especially if i’m playing some jazzy tunes with lots of saxophones...


----------



## maxnak4

I’m not a fan of equalizers personally. Granted I’ve only ever used software EQs.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

_*Happy Sunday, Valhalla2 owners & 6N1P tube rollers!*_
I don't want to cross post (and waste bandwidth). Would you mind popping over to the Vali2 rolling thread and answer a question for me?
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vali-2-tube-rolling.793982/page-182#post-15000126

Thanks, eh.


----------



## maxnak4

A pair of these *Novosibirsk 6N1P-V* from the mid 60s just came in the mail today, so far I'm thoroughly impressed. Right out of the box treble is much more refined than on the stock rockets. Still very airy and detailed, but not at all harsh or grainy. Sound-stage seems very comparable. Bass is much more textured than the stock tubes and just as present. They seem to have better synergy as well, I've noticed the stock tubes can get muddied up on moderately busy tracks. That's not the case with these, the instrument separation is noticeably improved. So far I haven't discovered any real downsides vs the stock tubes, I honestly cant figure out why Schiit didn't pick these instead of the Voskhods. I don't think I'll be buying different tubes any time soon.


----------



## Krusnik

Morning brothers and sisters


----------



## bokononista (Jun 15, 2019)

maxnak4 said:


> A pair of these *Novosibirsk 6N1P-V* from the mid 60s just came in the mail today, so far I'm thoroughly impressed. Right out of the box treble is much more refined than on the stock rockets. Still very airy and detailed, but not at all harsh or grainy. Sound-stage seems very comparable. Bass is much more textured than the stock tubes and just as present. They seem to have better synergy as well, I've noticed the stock tubes can get muddied up on moderately busy tracks. That's not the case with these, the instrument separation is noticeably improved. So far I haven't discovered any real downsides vs the stock tubes, I honestly cant figure out why Schiit didn't pick these instead of the Voskhods. I don't think I'll be buying different tubes any time soon.


I also tried some other than stock 6N1P. Its because 6N1P are little electrically different than 6Dj8 family and I also found some opinions that 6N1P family has different sound than 6DJ8. That was interesting to me. I tried these Novosibirsk from 60s and theese Voshkod Rocket 6N1P-EV:







Both are upgrade from stock tubes, both are more focused than stock (stock have fuzzy imaging for me). My Novosibirsk are still grainy to me in treble, but more focused than Voshkod which have smoother treble a little bit for instead.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

bokononista said:


> I also tried some other than stock 6N1P. Its because 6N1P are little electrically different than 6Dj8 family and I also found some opinions that 6N1P family has different sound than 6DJ8. That was interesting to me. I tried these Novosibirsk from 60s and theese Voshkod Rocket 6N1P-EV:
> 
> 
> 
> Both are upgrade from stock tubes, both are more focused than stock (stock have fuzzy imaging for me). My Novosibirsk are still grainy to me in treble, but more focused than Voshkod which have smoother treble a little bit for instead.





...what I'm looking for are tubes that have twisted filament wires (visible at the bulb's base [if you're curious about what I'm talking about, I cued up a video segment... here's the *link* it's less than 5 minutes long... fyi, eh]).


----------



## maxnak4

ScubaMan2017 said:


> ...what I'm looking for are tubes that have twisted filament wires (visible at the bulb's base [if you're curious about what I'm talking about, I cued up a video segment... here's the *link* it's less than 5 minutes long... fyi, eh]).


Can’t say that I’ve seen any like that


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jun 15, 2019)

ScubaMan2017 said:


> _*Happy Sunday, Valhalla2 owners & 6N1P tube rollers!*_
> I don't want to cross post (and waste bandwidth). Would you mind popping over to the Vali2 rolling thread and answer a question for me?
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vali-2-tube-rolling.793982/page-182#post-15000126
> 
> Thanks, eh.



I have a pair of Telfunken ECC82**s (smooth plate 12AU7**) tubes and do not recall any twisted wires, but I'll check again.

**ECC82/12AU7 is a lower gain version of the ECC81/12AT7

Edit:  Nope -- no twisted wires visible anywhere in the tube base.




Never seen what you are describing -- even on a TF ECC81/12AT7.   My TF tube has openings in the plates that expose the grid wires making them visible.  The grid wires are wound around cathode rods and maybe that's what the fellow saw and is confusing with a 'twisted' wire?


----------



## ScubaMan2017 (Jun 16, 2019)

Ripper2860 said:


> I have a pair of Telfunken ECC82**s (smooth plate 12AU7**) tubes and do not recall any twisted wires, but I'll check again.
> 
> **ECC82/12AU7 is a lower gain version of the ECC81/12AT7
> 
> ...


Thanks for looking, eh. _I also appreciated the yellow annotations you did on the image -- I learned something_! It might just be a strange manufacturing quirk that this particular guy detected (that wasn't implemented across the soviet [as it were]). I don't know enough about tube manufacturing to critique it. *Also -- general question... are there tube manufacturers in England or Scotland that offer public tours?*


----------



## Ripper2860

BTW - The TF tube pictured above is a older West Germany made tube - not the new reissue.


----------



## Robert Padgett

Ripper2860 said:


> BTW - The TF tube pictured above is an older West Germany made tube - not the new reissue.


The new production tubes are made at the JJ Electronic  (former Tesla) plant in Slovakia. 
Unlike the New Sensor products, Tung-Sol, Mullard, Electro-Harmonix, Genlex- which are manufactured by an American company in a former Soviet tube factory in Russia.


----------



## bokononista (Jun 17, 2019)

After mentioning 12AU7 tubes here, I got irresistible compulsion to try it also so i ordered Mullard Box plate CV4003 tubes (on pictures). Result is what I expected. First of all, the best soundstage of all of my tubes - almost holographic. In comparsion with my favorite 6CG7 tubes the soundstage is more wide. In comparsion with 6CG7 the mids are much better. I dont know if this is because of 12AU7 in general or Mullards. These Mullards are fantastic for T1.1 because of smoother treble but with great sense of air and space. The sound also has more body now and is very liquid. I very recommend to try 12AU7s with adapters now!


----------



## tricolor

good morning @bokononista and folks! hope you all enjoyed a great weekend!



bokononista said:


> After mentioning 12AU7 tubes here, I got irresistible compulsion to try it also so i ordered Mullard Box plate CV4003 tubes (on pictures).



Right on! happy to hear you are also a happy puppy... I love the Mullard 12at7’s... does the CV4003 also flare up when we first turn the amp on? like a quick bright flash?

cheers!


----------



## bokononista (Jun 17, 2019)

tricolor said:


> good morning @bokononista and folks! hope you all enjoyed a great weekend!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dont tell me any other tubes you are happy with! I am too weak to resist  ... I didnt notice any flare with mine. But it is not too much dark yet.


----------



## Robert Padgett

bokononista said:


> After mentioning 12AU7 tubes here, I got irresistible compulsion to try it also so i ordered Mullard Box plate CV4003 tubes (on pictures). Result is what I expected. First of all, the best soundstage of all of my tubes - almost holographic. In comparsion with my favorite 6CG7 tubes the soundstage is more wide. In comparsion with 6CG7 the mids are much better. I dont know if this is because of 12AU7 in general or Mullards. These Mullards are fantastic for T1.1 because of smoother treble but with great sense of air and space. The sound also has more body now and is very liquid. I very recommend trying 12AU7s with adapters now!



I have not pulled the trigger on the Upscale Mullard 12AU7, but if they are more impressive than a matched pair of new production JJ-Electronic ECC82 that I am using, that would be incredible. Upon insertion, and first power up, they delivered a sound signature quite different than the stock 6N1P, or a delicious pair of 6DJ8 from Vivatubes.com. So impressed with the sound, I did purchase the JJ-Electronic ECC99 to replace the stock Russian 6N6P, which means my rolling days have found Audio Nirvana. 

That is not to say that some vintage Mullards are not on my "wish list" but at this point, I am benefiting from matched pairs of the new tubes, for which I am expecting a nice long life. And the beauty of it is, that when the tubes die, as all tubes will eventually do, there are more being made every day.

New production doesn't mean inferior, and Slovakia was home to the famed Tesla factory. Of the four countries still producing vacuum tubes, Brimar cannot ship from GB to the US, everything else is either Chinese or New Sensor, an American company using an old Soviet tube factory in Russia. The JJ-Electronic plant also produces the new Telefunken tubes

I like JJ-Electronic as my preferred source, and as The Affordable Audiophile, it makes good sense.


----------



## bokononista

Robert Padgett said:


> I have not pulled the trigger on the Upscale Mullard 12AU7, but if they are more impressive than a matched pair of new production JJ-Electronic ECC82 that I am using, that would be incredible. Upon insertion, and first power up, they delivered a sound signature quite different than the stock 6N1P, or a delicious pair of 6DJ8 from Vivatubes.com. So impressed with the sound, I did purchase the JJ-Electronic ECC99 to replace the stock Russian 6N6P, which means my rolling days have found Audio Nirvana.
> 
> That is not to say that some vintage Mullards are not on my "wish list" but at this point, I am benefiting from matched pairs of the new tubes, for which I am expecting a nice long life. And the beauty of it is, that when the tubes die, as all tubes will eventually do, there are more being made every day.
> 
> ...


I think i will also try the JJ combination but later. For now i took Mullards mostly because of very often opinion about their soundstage quality.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jun 17, 2019)

@bokononista -- The Mullard CV-4003 is a glorious tube on VH2.  The imaging/space and midrange detail is absolutely wonderful. It is a very balanced tube top-to-bottom, but the mids and presentation are really special!  

If I may suggest ...

Brimar CV-4033 from TubeMonger.  They are also FABULOUS and spend more time in VH2 than my Mullard CV-4003s.  

https://www.tubemonger.com/Brimar_CV4033_NOS_NIB_1960_Prem_CV4003_STC_England_p/2041m.htm


----------



## tricolor

Hey @bokononista  & folks!
Hope all is well!



bokononista said:


> Dont tell me any other tubes you are happy with! I am too weak to resist  ... I didnt notice any flare with mine. But it is not too much dark yet.



Hmmmm, you would probably notice even if it ain't dark... just for a brief moment, it flashes... so basically, only happens when the tubes are cold, when we first turn the amps on... If I simply "restart"  the amps and the tubes are some what still "warm"... it won't happen.  
cheers!


----------



## bokononista

tricolor said:


> Hey @bokononista  & folks!
> Hope all is well!
> 
> 
> ...


I started Valhalla today morning cold and didnt notice any flare :/


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jun 19, 2019)

Tungsram 12AU7s are notorious for flaring at a cold startup.  First time I fired a pair up I thought either the tube was about to explode or my amp was about to go kaput.  

A quick Google showed it to be the norm.


----------



## tricolor

talking about 12at7 mullard... i’m not sure it is some sort of ´gimmick  to warm up the tubes that  Mullard (and other european manufactures did), but aesthetically, it does look cool, hehe and on top of it, I like how it sounds.... so it’s a win win for me!

hopefully these older tubes  have also a better (extended) life compared to new production ones, so I think that also becomes a good point...

one of the main good points for me though is  its price point...


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Ripper2860 said:


> Tungsram 12AU7s are notorious for flaring at a cold startup.  First time I fired a pair up I thought either the tube was about to explode or my amp was about to go kaput.
> 
> A quick Google showed it to be the norm.


I'm arriving late to the flaring party. I've elevated all 4 tubes with some socket savers that I bought from a store near the airport. They're still on back-order at Tube Depot Dot Com. Indeed, the passive cooling is much better, the chassis runs less-warm, and I get to see the glow in all its glory!

 ...on the knob front. I purchased 2 surplus audio knobs (similar in heft to the one on our VH2). 1 installed nicely on the Magni. The other one's retaining screw stripped. Ah well, smooth solid state adjustment at least.


----------



## bokononista

bokononista said:


> After mentioning 12AU7 tubes here, I got irresistible compulsion to try it also so i ordered Mullard Box plate CV4003 tubes (on pictures). Result is what I expected. First of all, the best soundstage of all of my tubes - almost holographic. In comparsion with my favorite 6CG7 tubes the soundstage is more wide. In comparsion with 6CG7 the mids are much better. I dont know if this is because of 12AU7 in general or Mullards. These Mullards are fantastic for T1.1 because of smoother treble but with great sense of air and space. The sound also has more body now and is very liquid. I very recommend to try 12AU7s with adapters now!


I want to share some impessions after longer listening time with these tubes. I think my Tung-Sol 6CG7 are still better - more dynamic, clear and resolving. I think that these Mullards are too much on the dark side a I have a feeling something is lost in detail. I have to try some other 12AU7 to compare


----------



## Robert Padgett

bokononista said:


> I want to share some impressions after longer listening time with these tubes. I think my Tung-Sol 6CG7 are still better - more dynamic, clear and resolving. I think that these Mullards are too much on the dark side an I have a feeling something is lost in detail. I have to try some other 12AU7 to compare


Thanks for your input. I decided to try new production JJ Electronic ECC82 before spending over a $100 on those Mullard 12AT7 from Upscale. I am pleased and satisfied with them and the $18 total investment was easier to swallow. We should note that there is a difference in gain between the 12A*7 family of tubes, with the AT higher than the AU, and the AX rated at 100.
Before throwing a whole lot of 12A*7 tubes overboard, may I suggest trying some inexpensive 12AU7 used tubes, to see if the lower gain is to your liking.

I played around with the 6SN7 atop the leaning tower of socket-savers and adapter one more go, and it sounded OK, but then I wanted to go back to my JJs, and one socket-saver wanted to stay in the chassis of the VH2. 
I unplugged the unit, let the white LED fade, put on a rubberized glove and ventured into the hole with a pair of surgical forceps to extricate the stubborn socket. And, of course, it pulled free, but still wanted to roll around inside. I finally got it out and installed the 12a*7 adapters and JJs, and with a fresh recall of the 6SN7, heard all I had been missing. For me and my system, the JJ-Electronic ECC82s  are the "house" tubes.


----------



## adydula

Its amazing how good the sound can be with low cost tubes!

:>)

Alex


----------



## Robert Padgett (Jun 26, 2019)

adydula said:


> It's amazing how good the sound can be with low-cost tubes!
> 
> :>)
> 
> Alex


Let me "Second that Emotion".
I naturally read all the postings about "holy grail" Telefunken and vintage Mullards and Brimar--all above my pay grade.
There is one Forum which seems to have as its motto that "all new Production tubes suck". To each their own.

I love the sound of my "tests good- 3 for $10" 6SN7 tubes. And so far, I have been lucky in finding those bargains.

I wanted to try a pair of 12AU7, and Tube Depot had a sale on Memorial Day so I bought two new JJ-Electronic ECC82 and they are now my everyday listening regulars at $7.95 each. I am so pleased I also bought the JJ ECC99 to swap out the 6N6P stock tubes also. That was a dynamic pairing until I ordered back-up reserves from Ukraine, four same dates Novosibirsk 6N6P ($5 each with shipping). 

There is a difference between ECC99 and 6N6P Russians, so I am back with 6N6P in the power sockets and the JJs in the drivers. It is difficult to explain the sonic difference, resulting from slightly different specifications, which is to say, the ECC99 have a different--neither better or worse-- sound signature than the tubes Jason chose to use. Maybe I like the "glow" of the Russians, the JJ tubes are more subtle.


----------



## bokononista (Jun 27, 2019)

Robert Padgett said:


> I decided to try new production JJ Electronic ECC82....


Do know about JJ ECC802S? It should be also 12AU7 tube but long plate version.

EDIT: _"I finally found some info through internet searches. What I have come up with is the same bass as the ECC82 with a thicker midrange or harmonically richer,better tone.The highs are supposed to be more extended."
_
EDIT2: Description right from the JJ web page: _ECC802S is a long plated 12AU7 medium gain pre-amplifying double triode. Long plate provides a very rich and full sound from the deep bass to the high end._


----------



## Robert Padgett

bokononista said:


> Do know about JJ ECC802S? It should be also 12AU7 tube but long plate version.
> 
> EDIT: _"I finally found some info through internet searches. What I have come up with is the same bass as the ECC82 with a thicker midrange or harmonically richer,better tone.The highs are supposed to be more extended."
> _
> EDIT2: Description right from the JJ web page: _ECC802S is a long plated 12AU7 medium gain pre-amplifying double triode. Long plate provides a very rich and full sound from the deep bass to the high end._


Have not tried the long plate version, but sounds like it might be worth a try, when I get some more money.


----------



## adydula (Jun 28, 2019)

Honestly IMO there should be no real world differences in long plates. But YMMV and we all have opinions.

If a vacuum tube meets the specs of its classifications then this all is a moot point, but our vanity and brains tell us that more is better
and a $200 + Western Electric is better than a $25 RCA.....

Its a hobby and many of us chase for the golden tube!! LOL...

When for a whole lot less $$$ sonic excellence is and can be had.

Alex


----------



## Robert Padgett

adydula said:


> Honestly IMO there should be no real world differences in long plates. But YMMV and we all have opinions.
> 
> If a vacuum tube meets the specs if its classifications then this all is a moot point, but our vanity and brains tell us that more is better
> and a $200 + Western Electric is better than a $25 RCA.....
> ...



+1 Alex. You make a very good point. Of all the cheap tubes I have collected in the past 6 months, there has been only one set of 6J5s Ken-Rad that were so microphonic that touching the table on which the amplifier was setting, would cause them to ring. $15 loss? No, $15 lesson. Likewise, two different lots of '3 for $10' 6SN7 tubes have proven to be all great sounding tubes.


----------



## adydula (Jun 28, 2019)

One of the most annoying issues are microphonic tubes....I bought several older RCA 6AS7G tubes and half of them are very sensitive in my Crack, the other half are solid.
Tap on the desk or crack case and you can hear the instability, the solid ones you can jump up and down nex to them and they just work...

Mostly with the older "coke" bottle styles where the internal elements can move and vibrate with nearby mechanical jarring...the shorter versions of these coke bottle tubes
are much more mechanically stable....but for vanitys sake the big coke bottle tubes sure do look nice!!

:>)
Alex

Note didnt mean to mention my bottlehead stuff, I do have a Schitt Vahalla1, Lyr and Asgad and Bifrost Mb! great stuff!


----------



## bokononista (Jun 28, 2019)

adydula said:


> Honestly IMO there should be no real world differences in long plates. But YMMV and we all have opinions.
> 
> If a vacuum tube meets the specs of its classifications then this all is a moot point, but our vanity and brains tell us that more is better
> and a $200 + Western Electric is better than a $25 RCA.....
> ...


Actually, I do not use the more expensive tubes I bought as Western Electric 396A, Amperex Orange Globes or now mentioned Mullards. I would use these tubes in case it would be the best for my system. But I invest to these tubes , cant get cheaper with time. I just like tubes


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Quick question: are high impedance (>300 ohm) Beyerdynamic headphones significantly cheaper in the UK (compared to Canadian vendors)? Have to restrict myself to bricks-and-mortar stores...


----------



## Robert Padgett

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Quick question: are high impedance (>300 ohms) Beyerdynamic headphones significantly cheaper in the UK (compared to Canadian vendors)? Have to restrict me to bricks-and-mortar stores...



Amazon has the DT770 250-Ohm for $169  www.amazon.com/beyerdynamic-770-PRO-Studio-Headphone/dp/B0016MNAAI


----------



## tricolor

hey @ScubaMan2017 , folks!



ScubaMan2017 said:


> Quick question: are high impedance (>300 ohm) Beyerdynamic headphones significantly cheaper in the UK (compared to Canadian vendors)? Have to restrict myself to bricks-and-mortar stores...



Bought mine in Montréal a few years ago... it was good to go to a store and actually try it out... of course it is a very short time to discover the pros and cons, but better than nothing... so yep, I’d rather pay a bit more but be able to feel it before buying... so that is worth the cost for me....


----------



## Ripper2860

Please do post-up your thoughts, as I too am considering a Beyer Dynamic HP -- DT770 (250 ohm).  I'd like to hear folks' impressions.


----------



## ScubaMan2017 (Jul 6, 2019)

Robert Padgett said:


> Amazon has the DT770 250-Ohm for $169  www.amazon.com/beyerdynamic-770-PRO-Studio-Headphone/dp/B0016MNAAI





tricolor said:


> hey @ScubaMan2017 , folks!
> 
> 
> 
> Bought mine in Montréal a few years ago... it was good to go to a store and actually try it out... of course it is a very short time to discover the pros and cons, but better than nothing... so yep, I’d rather pay a bit more but be able to feel it before buying... so that is worth the cost for me....





Ripper2860 said:


> Please do post-up your thoughts, as I too am considering a Beyer Dynamic HP -- DT770 (250 ohm).  I'd like to hear folks' impressions.



We took a van tour with a dour Scotsman of the Isle of Skye (Portree & Skye). The 2 shots of refreshments he offered me alleviated my cold symptoms (the run-of-the-mill Scotch easily outclasses the Glenfidithch [sp?] sold in Ontario). Nice country to visit - - and it makes me appreciate my North Bruce woodlot all the more so. Mind you, Edinburgh Castle DID live up to my expectations. I’m curious to see how much Beyerdynamic cans cost in the ‘burbs of London.


----------



## Wes S

Ripper2860 said:


> Please do post-up your thoughts, as I too am considering a Beyer Dynamic HP -- DT770 (250 ohm).  I'd like to hear folks' impressions.


The DT 770 250ohm, was my second good headphone, when I first started the hobby, and had Valhalla 2.  With the V2, the sub bass was and still is some of the best, I have ever heard!  The highs are definitely there, but with tubes never got sibilant.  I skipped over the mids, because there are none.  Well actually the mids, are just pushed way back, and this can is V shaped, for sure, and if that is your bag, these are a blast.  For certain genres these headphones are killer, for the price.  One could own the HD650 for the mids, and the DT770 250ohm for the bass and highs, and have it all covered.


----------



## Wes S

Wes S said:


> The DT 770 250ohm, was my second good headphone, when I first started the hobby, and had Valhalla 2.  With the V2, the sub bass was and still is some of the best, I have ever heard!  The highs are definitely there, but with tubes never got sibilant.  I skipped over the mids, because there are none.  Well actually the mids, are just pushed way back, and this can is V shaped, for sure, and if that is your bag, these are a blast.  For certain genres these headphones are killer, for the price.  One could own the HD650 for the mids, and the DT770 250ohm for the bass and highs, and have it all covered.



I will add, that I liked the DT 770 so much, that the second the DT 1770 came out I bought them, and they turned out to be an improvement in all areas, except sub bass.  The DT 770 250ohm, are still sub bass kings.

Both headphones are killer with Valhalla 2.


----------



## tricolor

I really like mine too.... along with the sound character, I like the fact they are really good for isolating external noise... and it won’t leak out either... as opposed to the grado gs1000i... well, it’s another amazing can, but completely different species hehe (open can, super amazing sound stage... etc...  

i’ve been using the dt770 250Ohm in the office...it’s pretty big, so i am not sure it would be ok as a carry around can...

i’m using it with an ipad classic and nuforce DAC, but yeah, if i home,it shines well with the valhalla 2!


----------



## Ripper2860

Sounds like DT770 is a nice pairing with VH2, which is exactly what I'm looking for - isolating cans to use with VH2.  The pushed back mids has me a bit worried, as I do love nice rich and layered mids in my music (Jazz).  Sounds like a 30-day eval through Amazon may be in order.  Thanks, all!!!


----------



## adydula

The Vahalla 2 with Beyer T1's are absolutely brilliant!

Alex


----------



## tricolor

Ripper2860 said:


> Sounds like DT770 is a nice pairing with VH2, which is exactly what I'm looking for - isolating cans to use with VH2.  The pushed back mids has me a bit worried, as I do love nice rich and layered mids in my music (Jazz).  Sounds like a 30-day eval through Amazon may be in order.  Thanks, all!!!



cool, just a quick note to say that EQ’ ing is my friend...  so yeah, if I am home, and if I feel like playing with closed cans, sure, fine tuning a bit with an equalizer ain’t bad at all...  

and yeah, the Mullards and Valhalla 2 help a lot too! (i love jazz too, btw


----------



## nikhilthemeal

My favorite tubes for the Valhalla 2 are by far the JAN 5670W. You will need an adapter to use them but they are so incredibly resolving and spacious sounding at an ultra cheap price to boot!


----------



## bokononista

adydula said:


> The Vahalla 2 with Beyer T1's are absolutely brilliant!
> 
> Alex


What generation do you have?


----------



## adydula

Hello,

I have the second generation...I was torn but wanted to "hear" the lastest from Beyerdynamics....
WIth the T1's compared to other headphones they sound more reserved, polite and not very forwwrd or bright....
Very much unlike the T90's I have and more like the DT1350's I have however with a much smaller overall presentation...

The T1's 2nd gen are "toned down" from other brighter cans like to me the HD600's which I have as well.

So with many amps the T1's can seem kind of "dull", not dark like LCD2's 2gen which I had.

But when paired with the Vahalla 2 they come alive and present a very nice accurate, musical soundstage...it makes me keep them when I think 
of selling them. 

On the other hand the HD 600's also work very well with the Vahalla 2 as well....just a different sound...is it better or more accurate?
That decision IMO is fro the end user...to me they both world class. 

The T'1's I got for about $ 750 + V2 $ 349 = $1099
Senn HD 600 for about $ 300 + V2 $349 = $649

Both on the low end of this hobby IMO and both work well.

I would rate them with the V2:

T1  = +9
HD600 = +8

Alex


----------



## Kammerat Rebekka (Jul 7, 2019)

I am the proud owner of a Valhalla 2 and I absolutely love it. Truth be told, this is the only tube amp I’ve ever listened to that has hit the perfect balance between detail and the difuse. I’ve actually listened to a fair few of them by now, Bottlehead Crack/Mainline, WA2, WA6, LDs, DVs and a Danish Vincent - most of em with supposedly upgraded tubes, and while there often was a lot to love about the overall sound presentation, I still turned up prefering the ss amp in the dap I brought with me.
Now maybe it’s just me slowly surrending myself to the tubes, head burn-in and all, but I’d like to think that this little silver box from feaces has a hand in it as well
I have at least read a lot of seasoned tube folks talking about how little the Valhalla 2 actually sounds like a tube when using it in stock form. That fairly well corresponds with how I hear it as well, although I do hear an increase in detail and plankton when shifting to solid state....but that really doesn’t matter because what I get instead is this riveting holography as well as a electrifying shimmer in the high frequencies that together quite successfully injects a little shamanistic Tinkerbellish magic into just about any headphone I care to listen to.
I was fairly surprised to find out just how wonderful it works with my Sundara. Damn that is one beautiful combo. You get the serene, distortionless and highly detailed Universe of the Sundara spruced up with that enveloping holographic stage as well as the euphonic distortions of the tubes working incredibly well to add body to sound. Drums, violins, guitars, djembes, farfisa organs, saxophones and marimbas all seem to soak up an almost wooden note to them making them seem more earthy.
I am more than satisfied with my Valhalla...but I do have a couple of questions.

1) Being an OTL amp I figure the output impedance goes up as I increase the volume. My question is: if I volumematch low and high gain (impossible when owning just one I know but in theory) will the output impedance also match?
It’s just that I vastly prefer it on low gain when using high impedance cans. In high gain I have close to zero volume control whereas I usually am about 12 on low.
My experience with solid states is that they sound the same in low and high gain, but the difference in output impedance on the Valhalla threw me a little

2) Nevermind:-D

Edith: Cans that I’ve paired successfully with the Valhalla are the hd580, r70x, Sundara, d7200, hf580, pro580i, q701, k260, n501, HD660s, Nighthawk, Elex as well as the hd58X that I’m wearing this minute


----------



## Ripper2860

I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment of VH2.  There's just something about it that leads me to listen to it even more-so than my Lyr 3!!  My favorite HP with VH2 is the Hifiman Ananda (I upgraded from Sundara).  It is a low impedance headphone, but thanks to its efficiency, it works wonderfully with VH2, much to the chagrin of my HD6XX cans.  

As far as tubes go -- I STRONGLY suggest rolling in a 12AU7 or 12AT7 class tube (adapter needed for both).  The best pairing I have found with VH2 is the Brimar CV4033s.  They are absolutely wonderfully detailed with a lush (not gooey) midrange coupled with nice shimmery top-end and nice extended bottom-end with a touch of slam.  They run about $45 each at Tubemonger and are an excellent pairing with the Hifiman sound.


----------



## Kammerat Rebekka

I’m a little wary of going down the tube-hole most especially now that I found one that I really love the sound of.
One of the nicer things about the Valhalla 2 when I first considered it was the fact that it sounded great in stock form...or so I’d read

I live in Denmark so if I do decide to tinker with some other tubes, I think I’ll see what’s available here. Seems a little crazy to me ordering something so small and insignificant from the other side of the world...but then again I haven’t owned a tube amp before.


----------



## Ripper2860

Fortunately for you, all the really great 12AT7/12AU7 family tubes are more readily available on your side of the world.  Mullard and Brimar CV4003s are probably more easily found and are also very, very  good, BTW.  If you do either, you're likely set for tubes -- no need to keep looking, IMHO. Have fun and most of all -- ENJOY the music!!


----------



## tricolor

Welcome @Kammerat Rebekka !
My Valhalla 2 was also my first tube amp experience, and I am super happy I did give it a shot! You will have lots of fun and I also recommend 12AT7/12AU7 family... I love my experience with Mullards 12AT7... at least here in Canada, it is NOT an expensive NOS, and cheaper than other 12AX7/12AU7s...

Yep, enjoy the music indeed!


----------



## Kammerat Rebekka

Thanks
I am fairly certain that if I do decide to roll some tubes it’ll be ones I can just pop in there without any adapter.


----------



## Robert Padgett

Kammerat Rebekka said:


> Thanks
> I am fairly certain that if I do decide to roll some tubes it’ll be ones I can just pop in there without any adapter.



I would agree with that if you were considering rolling 6SN7 tubes (which require two socket-savers and a big adapter to work on VH2), but a '12a*7 to 6922' adapter fits right in the chassis of the VH2 and that family of tubes offer a great range of choices, including different levels of gain for the U, T, and X versions.


----------



## tricolor

Robert Padgett said:


> I would agree with that if you were considering rolling 6SN7 tubes (which require two socket-savers and a big adapter to work on VH2), but a '12a*7 to 6922' adapter fits right in the chassis of the VH2 and that family of tubes offer a great range of choices, including different levels of gain for the U, T, and X versions.



And from my experience, it's interesting that along with different gain levels, we will also see different PRICING as well... so, for me, it has been pretty cool to find an outstanding performance that comes along a cool price point!


----------



## Robert Padgett

tricolor said:


> And from my experience, it's interesting that along with different gain levels, we will also see different PRICING as well... so, for me, it has been pretty cool to find an outstanding performance that comes along a cool price point!



I am certainly pleased with new production JJ 12au7 which were $8/each. I have read good things about some New Sensor re-issue Mullards and E-H 12a*7 tubes also.


----------



## bokononista

Kammerat Rebekka said:


> Thanks
> I am fairly certain that if I do decide to roll some tubes it’ll be ones I can just pop in there without any adapter.


6CG7 tubes needs no adapter and it is electrically identical with 6SN7 tubes. Many ppl like them and i also have a very good experience.


----------



## Robert Padgett

B-stock list repopulated, with a couple Yggys and Valhalla 2 listed as well as Asgard 2...


----------



## williabe (Jul 20, 2019)

bokononista said:


> I want to share some impessions after longer listening time with these tubes. I think my Tung-Sol 6CG7 are still better - more dynamic, clear and resolving. I think that these Mullards are too much on the dark side a I have a feeling something is lost in detail. I have to try some other 12AU7 to compare



Can I ask what adaptors you are using the Tung-Sol 6CG7? I’ve seen people mention using Tung-Sol for the power tubes in the VH2. Is this where you have them?


----------



## Robert Padgett

I have nothing but good things to say about the Brimar CV4033 (ECC81, 12AT7) This is an industrial tube built to military spec, I got mine at Tubemonger.com . I use an adapter from 12a*7 to 6922.


----------



## bokononista

williabe said:


> Can I ask what adaptors you are using the Tung-Sol 6CG7? I’ve seen people mention using Tung-Sol for the power tubes in the VH2. Is this where you have them?


In Valhalla you can use 6CG7 as driver tubes (front tubes). You dont need any adapter at all! Just put it in.


----------



## bokononista

Robert Padgett said:


> I have nothing but good things to say about the Brimar CV4033 (ECC81, 12AT7) This is an industrial tube built to military spec, I got mine at Tubemonger.com . I use an adapter from 12a*7 to 6922.


Can you please tell me about their clarity and dynamics in comparsion with 6922 or stock tubes for example? I have only Mullards CV4003 with less dynamics than my 6CG7, same clarity (better than stock).


----------



## Robert Padgett (Jul 21, 2019)

Listening is so subjective. Your hearing and mine might vary. The immediate impression  I had upon inserting the Brimar CV4033 was a sense of openness, unconfined to the limitations of the headphone transducers.
Very dynamic with Beethoven's Ninth by Karajan (1963) from the slightest tinkle to a crashing crescendo--it is all there. Very fine sounding tube, very precise.
Having never heard a 6CG7, but having heard many 6SN7s in Valhalla 2, the Brimar represents the best of all worlds. I rolled in my 1951 Fotons for comparison and could not wait to put the Brimar back into the amp.
This particular lot of tubes were selected for some specification, each is serialized with a handwritten number. I quite frankly would encourage anyone with a Valhalla 2, to invest $90 (USD) with Tubemonger.com on a pair of these tubes, and an apology to all other tubes in your inventory--"Your position has been filled..."

Add: I had an audiophile friend over he is a solid stateguy, claiming to be recovering from his Tube era with Conrad Johnson furnaces in a small room, who said he was hearing details in Paul McCartney  "Wild Life" that he has never heard. The only difference--the Brimar CV4033.

$90 USD is really a bargain, and I have been assured that they have a large inventory for the future--in fact the tubes I bought have been in their stock for decades. Good people to work with. I am buying their vibration reducing 12a*7 to 6922 adapters next.


----------



## bokononista

Robert Padgett said:


> Listening is so subjective. Your hearing and mine might vary. The immediate impression  I had upon inserting the Brimar CV4033 was a sense of openness, unconfined to the limitations of the headphone transducers.
> Very dynamic with Beethoven's Ninth by Karajan (1963) from the slightest tinkle to a crashing crescendo--it is all there. Very fine sounding tube, very precise.
> Having never heard a 6CG7, but having heard many 6SN7s in Valhalla 2, the Brimar represents the best of all worlds. I rolled in my 1951 Fotons for comparison and could not wait to put the Brimar back into the amp.
> This particular lot of tubes were selected for some specification, each is serialized with a handwritten number. I quite frankly would encourage anyone with a Valhalla 2, to invest $90 (USD) with Tubemonger.com on a pair of these tubes, and an apology to all other tubes in your inventory--"Your position has been filled..."
> ...


Thank you for such a complex answer! One more question - do you hear any rolloff in bass or treble?


----------



## williabe

bokononista said:


> In Valhalla you can use 6CG7 as driver tubes (front tubes). You dont need any adapter at all! Just put it in.



- Thanks for the advice *bokononista*

- Anyone using 6SN7 as power tubes for the VH2?


----------



## Robert Padgett

bokononista said:


> Thank you for such a complex answer! One more question - do you hear any rolloff in bass or treble?


No, Non, Nyet, and Nein


----------



## Robert Padgett

williabe said:


> - Thanks for the advice *bokononista*
> 
> - Anyone using 6SN7 as power tubes for the VH2?



I thought about it, but could see no value as they are disappointing in the signal side. 12at7 CV4033 Brimar is where it is at...


----------



## bokononista

williabe said:


> - Thanks for the advice *bokononista*
> 
> - Anyone using 6SN7 as power tubes for the VH2?


If you mean *rear* tubes, just use the stock 6N6P.


----------



## Robert Padgett

bokononista said:


> If you mean *rear* tubes, just use the stock 6N6P.


Agreed, the 6N6P was chosen specifically. I tried a JJ-Electronic ECC99 which is supposed to be the same---and it isn't. They picked those 6N6Ps for a reason (like they are easily replaced for $4 each) or so I have heard...


----------



## ScubaMan2017

adydula said:


> One of the most annoying issues are microphonic tubes....I bought several older RCA 6AS7G tubes and half of them are very sensitive in my Crack, the other half are solid.
> Tap on the desk or crack case and you can hear the instability, the solid ones you can jump up and down nex to them and they just work...
> 
> Mostly with the older "coke" bottle styles where the internal elements can move and vibrate with nearby mechanical jarring...the shorter versions of these coke bottle tubes
> ...


When I grow up (and have adequate soldering skills), I'd pick up a Crack too... with a speedball. Large. Boxy. Shiny.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Kammerat Rebekka said:


> I’m a little wary of going down the tube-hole most especially now that I found one that I really love the sound of.
> One of the nicer things about the Valhalla 2 when I first considered it was the fact that it sounded great in stock form...or so I’d read
> 
> I live in Denmark so if I do decide to tinker with some other tubes, I think I’ll see what’s available here. Seems a little crazy to me ordering something so small and insignificant from the other side of the world...but then again I haven’t owned a tube amp before.


my 2 cents... if you want to tinker with tubes, the Vali 2 seems to offer the most dramatic changes in SQ from tube to tube. Meh, like I said, YMMV...


----------



## Robert Padgett

Mine Tricked out* Schiit Audio Valhalla 2 OTL Headphone Amplifier aglow with Brimar CV4033 and Russian 6N6P. [4 sec exposure @ f/16, ISO 800] *-Tricked out means socket-savers lifting power tube up and out of chassis, and use of a 12a*7 adapter serves the same function with the front valves, and black arrow added to Pot, as my old eyes can't see the little surface depression which serves as the index.


----------



## Robert Padgett

ScubaMan2017 said:


> my 2 cents... if you want to tinker with tubes, the Vali 2 seems to offer the most dramatic changes in SQ from tube to tube. Meh, like I said, YMMV...



Clearly the most responsive to rolling, yet I assume the Lyr 3 which is also a hybrid would also show the differences between valves. Valhalla seems to like different tubes for different reasons. 6SN7 did not impress me on the VH2, where sticking to nine pins-- 6922, 6DJ8 or 12A*7 seems to do best. The Vali 2 has a Melz 1578 almost Super-glued to it. 
The Naughty girls and dual 6J5 adapter are retired. 
Once bitten by the Musicality of the Melz, it is difficult to listen to other valves. Should be possible I want one of the closeout Saga for $199, to use the Melz in...


----------



## nishan99

Will Schiit make a 3rd revision of this amp? it's been almost 5 years since lunch.


----------



## bokononista

nishan99 said:


> Will Schiit make a 3rd revision of this amp? it's been almost 5 years since lunch.


Jason said somewhere that on Valhalla there is nothing to improve without bigger chasis.


----------



## Robert Padgett

nishan99 said:


> Will Schiit make the 3rd revision of this amp? it's been almost 5 years since lunch.



I am always curious when such a question arises--what would you improve?  I do not think there is a problem that needs addressed, the bugs got worked out in 2. The basic OTL headphone amplifier circuit is pretty well established, I don't think any special sauce is involved. It sells for $349. The next closest competitor is the WA-3 at $599 if you exclude Chi-Fi and kit builds.


----------



## nishan99

Robert Padgett said:


> I am always curious when such a question arises--what would you improve?  I do not think there is a problem that needs addressed, the bugs got worked out in 2. The basic OTL headphone amplifier circuit is pretty well established, I don't think any special sauce is involved. It sells for $349. The next closest competitor is the WA-3 at $599 if you exclude Chi-Fi and kit builds.



Are there other chi-fi other than little dots?  Because I heard LD otl amps are outdated


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Robert Padgett said:


> I am always curious when such a question arises--what would you improve?  I do not think there is a problem that needs addressed, the bugs got worked out in 2. The basic OTL headphone amplifier circuit is pretty well established, I don't think any special sauce is involved. It sells for $349. The next closest competitor is the WA-3 at $599 if you exclude Chi-Fi and kit builds.


I bet this model is as good as it can get (barring cheaper components becoming available). I'm thrilled to see the listed price remain the same. My hunch: the Valhalla-2 will remain as their desktop option. _*What I'm concerned about is the supply of 6N6P (non-**roll-able** 'power tubes') will dry up. I'm hoping that eventually, Schiit will re-introduce the LISST plug-ins*_. Meh, I'll concern myself with that problem in 5 or so years -- or whenever those tubes eventually burn out.


----------



## Robert Padgett

ScubaMan2017 said:


> I bet this model is as good as it can get (barring cheaper components becoming available). I'm thrilled to see the listed price remain the same. My hunch: the Valhalla-2 will remain as their desktop option. _*What I'm concerned about is the supply of 6N6P (non-**roll-able** 'power tubes') will dry up. I'm hoping that eventually, Schiit will re-introduce the LISST plug-ins*_. Meh, I'll concern myself with that problem in 5 or so years -- or whenever those tubes eventually burn out.


There does not appear to be a shortage of 6N6P, those were made in mass quantities. I bought four off ETSY from a fellow Ukraine, and there are lots of 12 or more regularly advertised on eBay. If I burn through 6 tubes, I can always fall back on the ECC99 sold by JJ-Electronic. It is not identical but it sounds sweet.


----------



## ScubaMan2017 (Aug 13, 2019)

Robert Padgett said:


> There does not appear to be a shortage of 6N6P, those were made in mass quantities. I bought four off ETSY from a fellow Ukraine, and there are lots of 12 or more regularly advertised on eBay. If I burn through 6 tubes, I can always fall back on the ECC99 sold by JJ-Electronic. It is not identical but it sounds sweet.


Re: flush 6N6P stock. The ECC99 is identical to the 6N6P... and pin configuration (just want to add this info to the thread so it’s searchable in the fututre, eh). 

I picked up some well crafted compilations from HD Tracks (Chesky Records). They really ARE superiorly produced files! My only nerdy bugaboo is that when I place these tracks using a Chromebook, I can’t see the Kbps values as they go into my Modi (on my PC, I can see all those nice-nerdy output values as I use the Win7 Foobar player).


----------



## Robert Padgett

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Re: flush 6N6P stock. The ECC99 is identical to the 6N6P... and pin configuration (just want to add this info to the thread so it’s searchable in the fututre, eh).
> 
> I picked up some well crafted compilations from HD Tracks (Chesky Records). They really ARE superiorly produced files! My only nerdy bugaboo is that when I place these tracks using a Chromebook, I can’t see the Kbps values as they go into my Modi (on my PC, I can see all those nice-nerdy output values as I use the Win7 Foobar player).


They can be substituted, but they are not "identical" Apparently the Russian had an exclusive on 6N6P, the ECC99 works and sounds good, but the 6N6P are brighter and lively by comparison.


----------



## bokononista (Aug 18, 2019)

Hi everybody,
recently I found that power tubes matters. But it is icing on the cake and it is mostly about synergy with driver tubes. Somehow my underestimated Sylvania 6CG7 with my underestimated 6N6P Foton tubes works together that i have now this combination in my Valhalla for about month without desire to change it. Occasionally i sometimes put some other tubes in but switch it back very soon again. Foton 6N6P have little less subbas extension but tighter bass in comparsion with Novosibirsk 6N6P. I thought Fotons are just little worse than Novosibirsk. But Sylvania 6CG7 are warm tubes with already great subbas extension, so tighter bass is great. Just wanted to let you know. It is really very little sound difference but for me it made me use Sylvanias 6CG7 as my main tubes now instead of my favourite Tung-sols. The Foton 6N6P tubes costed me only about $5 each so in this hobby it is not much to get it and play with it. I have to say it is with a Beyerdynamic T1.1, thats important.

I also tried JJ ECC802S tubes - long plated 12AU7 version. It is good, great soundstage, little too bright fot T1, but it is not burned in so i dont have relevant opinion yet. I still prefer 6CG7 family more for now (my Sylvanias 6CG7 have more natural timbre). I will write about them later on.


----------



## Robert Padgett

bokononista said:


> Hi everybody,
> recently I found that power tubes matters. But it is the icing on the cake and it is mostly about synergy with driver tubes. Somehow my underestimated Sylvania 6CG7 with my underestimated 6N6P Foton tubes works together that I have now this combination in my Valhalla for about month without a desire to change it. Occasionally I sometimes put some other tubes in but switch it back very soon again. Foton 6N6P have little less sub-bass extension but tighter bass in comparison with Novosibirsk 6N6P. I thought Fotons are just a little worse than Novosibirsk. But Sylvania 6CG7 are warm tubes with already great sub-bass extension, so tighter bass is great. Just wanted to let you know. It is really very little sound difference but for me it made me use Sylvania 6CG7 as my main tubes now instead of my favorite Tung-sols. The Foton 6N6P tubes cost me only about $5 each so in this hobby it is not much to get it and play with it. I have to say it is with a Beyerdynamic T1.1, that's important.
> 
> I also tried JJ ECC802S tubes - long plated 12AU7 version. It is good, great soundstage, little too bright for T1, but it is not burned in so I don't have a relevant opinion yet. I still prefer 6CG7 family more for now (my Sylvania 6CG7 have more natural timbre). I will write about them later on.



Novosibirsk vs. FOTON. That is a new one for me. SPOILER ALERT: All Russian Tubes are not the Same. I don't know if I could discern a big difference between the two former Soviet factories. 
JJ-Electronic ECC99 is not "identical" to 6N6P but they will replace them. They are differences which I could clearly hear. 
I prefer the 6N6P in Valhalla for two very good reasons: 1. Designer Stoddard built Valhalla 2 to use these ubiquitous valves. 2. In the twilight years of the former CCCP, they were producing 6N6P at a fevered pace, hence a HUGE Post-Cold War supply. (And they are relatively cheap)
In the other hole, I have found that the Brimar CV4024 sound almost as good as the Brimar CV4033. I own both and prefer to reserve the CV4033 while enjoying the CV4024.  
Zero desire to seek "better".


----------



## bokononista

Robert Padgett said:


> Novosibirsk vs. FOTON. That is a new one for me. SPOILER ALERT: All Russian Tubes are not the Same. I don't know if I could discern a big difference between the two former Soviet factories.
> JJ-Electronic ECC99 is not "identical" to 6N6P but they will replace them. They are differences which I could clearly hear.
> I prefer the 6N6P in Valhalla for two very good reasons: 1. Designer Stoddard built Valhalla 2 to use these ubiquitous valves. 2. In the twilight years of the former CCCP, they were producing 6N6P at a fevered pace, hence a HUGE Post-Cold War supply. (And they are relatively cheap)
> In the other hole, I have found that the Brimar CV4024 sound almost as good as the Brimar CV4033. I own both and prefer to reserve the CV4033 while enjoying the CV4024.
> Zero desire to seek "better".


Yes, in early pages of this thread people talking about Fotons, i bought it because of these informations. There is definitely a difference but worth few dollars not more. I thought that i will need some more power tubes later anyway so why not to try it


----------



## inflames91

Tried the ECC82 of Mullard.
Pretty wide soundstage


----------



## ScubaMan2017

inflames91 said:


> Tried the ECC82 of Mullard.
> Pretty wide soundstage


_Welcome to the thread, @inflames91 . _What headphone are you using the Valhalla 2 ("VH2") with?


----------



## yangian

My V2 suddenly had current noise this morning. I changed all tubes and the noise is  still there. Any idea what's wrong?
Thanks


----------



## ScubaMan2017

yangian said:


> My V2 suddenly had current noise this morning. I changed all tubes and the noise is  still there. Any idea what's wrong?
> Thanks


Uh oh. Did you contact Schiit and ask for clarification?


----------



## yangian

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Uh oh. Did you contact Schiit and ask for clarification?



Thank you! I contacted and didn't get reply. Very unsatisfied with the guy called Nick.
But I found there is no noise when I move to another room though I cannot figure out what's the Interference


----------



## ScubaMan2017

yangian said:


> Thank you! I contacted and didn't get reply. Very unsatisfied with the guy called Nick.
> But I found there is no noise when I move to another room though I cannot figure out what's the Interference


Ask for Grover. He's very responsive. *Gentle reminder: *email tone can be terse. Hell, you might be thinking that I'm being condescending towards you. I'm not.
Sincerely,
Scubaman.


----------



## yangian

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Ask for Grover. He's very responsive. *Gentle reminder: *email tone can be terse. Hell, you might be thinking that I'm being condescending towards you. I'm not.
> Sincerely,
> Scubaman.



No. I think you are kind. How to contact with Grover? Anyway, now the problem has gone in another room. Thank you.


----------



## judson_w

This was mentioned in the Jason Stoddard's thread, but I figured I would relay it here.  Robert Padgett apparently passed a few weeks ago.  I know he wrote a lot here.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Sep 17, 2019)

Thanks.  I thought I had also posted it in this thread last week.  Apparently I only posted in the Vali2 thread.  I guess I was too shakened by the news.  He passed on 9/10, IIRC.


----------



## judson_w

The facebook page in his sig states 9/9, but regardless, I think he will be missed.  I know I thought of him when the idea of tube rolling my valhalla popped into my head again.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Sep 17, 2019)

Thanks -- I see that now.  Several of us were chatting with Robert on his SLACK chatroom on 9/9. He was pretty excited that his Vali 2 was A-OK after a tube failure.


----------



## bokononista

judson_w said:


> This was mentioned in the Jason Stoddard's thread, but I figured I would relay it here.  Robert Padgett apparently passed a few weeks ago.  I know he wrote a lot here.


Thank you for the information, Didnt know that


----------



## ScubaMan2017

judson_w said:


> This was mentioned in the Jason Stoddard's thread, but I figured I would relay it here.  Robert Padgett apparently passed a few weeks ago.  I know he wrote a lot here.





Ripper2860 said:


> Thanks -- I see that now.  Several of us were chatting with Robert on his SLACK chatroom on 9/9. He was pretty excited that his Vali 2 was A-OK after a tube failure.


It's surreal and sad to know someone online, and then they are no-more. His electronic footprint remains. I appreciated my online time with him.


----------



## regaet

Has anyone else tried any of the American tubes from the 1950s? I really like the 1957 RCA 6bq7 D-getter tubes.


----------



## Edwii (Oct 16, 2019)

Valhalla 1(early version, can't roll): broke a small/front tube, need replacements.
What's the best value tube/where to order it?  

HD650 + HD700 , Mostly gaming/movies but of course a healthy love of music too.

Thanks!


----------



## tricolor

Good morning folks! hope all is well.

is there anyone around using the Valhalla 2 with a turntable?  

I’m contemplating getting one... doesn’t need to be high end at all... so thinking of having a switch like SYS and switch back and forth....

thoughts? thanks!


----------



## judson_w

tricolor said:


> Good morning folks! hope all is well.
> 
> is there anyone around using the Valhalla 2 with a turntable?
> 
> ...



I am using mine with a turntable.  Two actually.  Currently have a Pro-ject Debut Carbon and a Dual 1215 connected via a Pro-ject DS2 Tube Box phono preamp.  Before I got the Dual, I had a Sony PS-LX510 in the system (still want to get it back in).

As you are probably aware, you would need a phono preamp between the turntable and the Valhalla (or have a turntable with a built in phono preamp).

The SYS would work for switching between two inputs going to the Valhalla.  I would suggest having the volume on the SYS turned to max so it is sending the full line signal to the Valhalla and then you control volume with that (being fully passive, the SYS will provide no gain, so why not).  That being said, there are plenty of passive switches without volume pots in them that you can find.  I currently use a Realistic Tape Control Center so I can select which source I want to listen to and where its signal should go (since I have the Valhalla 2 as well as a tube integrated amp for speakers, and a reel to reel that sometimes I decide I want to have fun and dub something to tape).


----------



## tricolor

Hey @judson_w, folks!  Hope all is well!



judson_w said:


> I am using mine with a turntable.  Two actually.  Currently have a Pro-ject Debut Carbon and a Dual 1215 connected via a Pro-ject DS2 Tube Box phono preamp.  Before I got the Dual, I had a Sony PS-LX510 in the system (still want to get it back in).
> 
> As you are probably aware, you would need a phono preamp between the turntable and the Valhalla (or have a turntable with a built in phono preamp).
> 
> The SYS would work for switching between two inputs going to the Valhalla.  I would suggest having the volume on the SYS turned to max so it is sending the full line signal to the Valhalla and then you control volume with that (being fully passive, the SYS will provide no gain, so why not).  That being said, there are plenty of passive switches without volume pots in them that you can find.  I currently use a Realistic Tape Control Center so I can select which source I want to listen to and where its signal should go (since I have the Valhalla 2 as well as a tube integrated amp for speakers, and a reel to reel that sometimes I decide I want to have fun and dub something to tape).



Yeah, I am aware that I would need a phono preamp... but I will quite likely get a turntable with one built in... as I am still in the early research phase,  still trying to find out the best bang for the buck route.

To be honest, not really sure if it will be a good "investment" as I DO enjoy the "convenience" of digital (just put together a raspberry pi running Plex server, feeding the BiFrost (via optical cable/Hifi berry)... and I am super happy with its quality! 

I guess the "turntable" is more of a nostalgia feeling as I would love to go back to what we had growing up, the whole  experience of sitting down to enjoy music... checking out the album cover, remove from the sleeve... etc...   

cheers!


----------



## judson_w

tricolor said:


> Hey @judson_w, folks!  Hope all is well!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



While I am mostly a vinyl listener, I can understand the convenience of digital (no real need for quotes; it is convenient). I also am a glutton for variety so my sources in my system are:
-Pro-ject Debut Carbon
-Dual 1215
-Teac A-2300SD (reel to reel)
-A Marantz SD-432 (cassette tapes)
-Oppo BDP-83 (CDs)
-Raspberry pi with a Hifiberry Digi+ HAT

The Oppo and the Raspberry Pi both feed into a Modi Multibit.

With the raspberry pi, I understand the appeal of queuing up several albums and letting them play one after the other without flipping and changing records.

Whenever friends ask me for recommendations for vinyl, I do my best first to dissuade them as it can be cumbersome and a money sink.  Then if they persist, I gauge their level of interest.  For most of my friends, my system is overkill for them (hell, the phono preamp costs more than some of their systems in their entirety).  I do not judge those who do not need or want a lot, though I do my best to steer them away from Crosleys and such.  There are decent inexpensive tables out there, and some used ones that are not bad either.  I got my Sony PS-LX510 for $35 from Craigslist.  Yes, I then spent double that getting a new cartridge for it, but I could have saved money by just replacing the stylus.  Point being, there are some inexpensive stand alone preamps out there, so $35 for table, $30 (estimate) for new stylus, and $50 for a phono preamp puts you at $115 which is not too bad.  Of course, used could have other issues.

I am rambling now, so I will stop.


----------



## socksrolleddown

Hi, am I correct that Valhalla mk1 cannot tube roll? so all I can do is replace exact same tubes, sorry for a newbie question


----------



## tricolor

Hey @judson_w ! folks! Happy Friday!




judson_w said:


> While I am mostly a vinyl listener, I can understand the convenience of digital (no real need for quotes; it is convenient). I also am a glutton for variety so my sources in my system are:
> -Pro-ject Debut Carbon
> -Dual 1215
> -Teac A-2300SD (reel to reel)
> ...




Thanks for sharing your thoughts... Hope it ain't too "way"off topic... hehehe

I have a very similar setup with the Hifiberry DIGI+ and I am sending the optical signal to the Bifrost... pretty happy, so that is definitely "tricky" to beat the convenience of skipping tunes and switching albums with a mouse click... My old vinyls from my teenage years might be at my mom's... but not sure if she kept the boxes...  but I do miss the selection process of an album, checking the cover... out of the  sleeve... and literally sit back and relax...

Is there anyone from MONTREAL here?  heading there for meetings / training.. and hopefully i'll squeeze time to chill..  and maybe grab a turntable...

have a great weekend , peeps!


----------



## Edwii

socksrolleddown said:


> Hi, am I correct that Valhalla mk1 cannot tube roll? so all I can do is replace exact same tubes, sorry for a newbie question



Yes/no, I believe there are two versions of the Valhalla 1, the early ones are locked in, but latter on they upgraded it to rolling even before the Valhalla 2 was released.  
You would  have to email Schiit with the serial number on the back to get confirmation.


----------



## socksrolleddown

Edwii said:


> Yes/no, I believe there are two versions of the Valhalla 1, the early ones are locked in, but latter on they upgraded it to rolling even before the Valhalla 2 was released.
> You would  have to email Schiit with the serial number on the back to get confirmation.



Thanks for responding, emailed in and they responded quickly but looks like bad news for me:

_No version of the original Valhalla that I am aware of is recommended to roll tubes with. Revision A and B or both not recommended for tube rolling.

VERY IMPORTANT: Other types of tubes may not
work. We do not recommend “tube rolling.”_


----------



## judson_w

tricolor said:


> Hey @judson_w ! folks! Happy Friday!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Were this a decade earlier, I would have been in Montreal, though severely lacking in audio equipment.  Enjoy the city.  Last time I visited, I ran across an audio shop in Atwater that had a bunch of McIntosh gear in it.  I did not walk in as it seemed well outside my price range (and I was not in Montreal to pick up audio stuff, though I believe I did pack my modi multibit and my valhalla 2 to let my friend listen).


----------



## Kammerat Rebekka (Nov 12, 2019)

Soooo after having spent 6 months with this thing I still feel like I’m in love.
I’ve always loved what I heard but became even fonder for the Valhalla after having met up with a friend of mine that owns quite a few tube amps. He set up a little blindtesting rig so as I could a/b with fx the Cayin HA-300, the Lyr 3, Bottlehead Mainline and some others that I forget this minute.
I tend to prefer tests where I can keep my biases in check and just use my ears...mostly because I’ve learned that the human hearing perhaps is the easiest of our senses to manipulate with.

Anyway long story short: I ended up prefering the Valhalla and HA-300 by quite a big margin..and as to the two, it was basically a toss up as to which one I prefered. The Valhalla seemed more 3D and holographic whereas the Cayin offeret a little more meat to the bone.
I was very surprised by my findings...so much so that I’ve revisited the experience thrice just to make sure I wasn’t hallucinating or some such silly thing.

The Valhalla 2 is perhaps the finest piece of kit I’ve ever bought. I find it works with just about every headphone I’ve hooked up to it. Even my HE400 and Sundara sounds sooo much better than out of any solid state I’ve tried. Hell I even sold off my little Vali 2, that I’d purchased to channel some juice into the planars, is now gone. The level of detail and holography that came out of the Valhalla compared to its babybrother was just on another level altogether.
Truth be told I haven’t yet come across a headphone that through the Valhalla doesn’t sound like it just took some extraordinary and imaginative doping: fast firefly-like transients, holography like a mosaic - strange but oddly enamouring as well as some of the best punch to instruments and sounds that I’ve yet come across. Sort of reminds me of the kick one gets from Foster’s biocellulose drivers. Works a treat with my HD600 that genuinely adores the doping-sauce....just like it’s owner who spends most of his evenings with a great big smirk on his face.


----------



## bokononista

Kammerat Rebekka said:


> Soooo after having spent 6 months with this thing I still feel like I’m in love.
> I’ve always loved what I heard but became even fonder for the Valhalla after having met up with a friend of mine that owns quite a few tube amps. He set up a little blindtesting rig so as I could a/b with fx the Cayin HA-300, the Lyr 3, Bottlehead Mainline and some others that I forget this minute.
> I tend to prefer tests where I can keep my biases in check and just use my ears...mostly because I’ve learned that the human hearing perhaps is the easiest of our senses to manipulate with.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your impressions. Can you tell me more about Valhalla2 vs Ly3 comparsion? What is the main difference in sound, thanks!


----------



## Kammerat Rebekka (Nov 22, 2019)

Thanks man. I’d say that there is a big difference in presentation as well as the emphasis on macrodetail ie the punch to sounds. Personally I found the Lyr to sound almost exactly like the Vali 2...most especially if one is using the same tubes. I don’t think I’d recommend purchasing the Lyr unless one already owns an HE-6 or a Susvara.
Where the Valhalla sounds like an OTL without the old school husky and to me rather muddy low end, the Lyr/Vali sounds more like a solid state with an ever so slight touch of the ethereal sauce that tends to come with tube amps.
I would chose the Valhalla over most other amps - at least the ones I’ve heard up until now - and I would not recommend getting either the Vali or Lyr unless one owns a hard to drive planar. I’m fairly certain you’d need more juice than the Valhalla can provide if you own even an HD-500.
Regarding planars, if you stay over 90db in sensitivity and preferably over 32 ohms and I’d certainly opt for the Valhalla. Just remember to select high gain for those badboys The source will already be doing the pre-amplification, and even 2 Vrms gives you a good solid foundation for just about any can.
Biggest difference between Valhalla amd Lyr/Vali? 3D vs 2D.


----------



## bokononista

Kammerat Rebekka said:


> Thanks man. I’d say that there is a big difference in presentation as well as the emphasis on macrodetail ie the punch to sounds. Personally I found the Lyr to sound almost exactly like the Vali 2...most especially if one is using the same tubes. I don’t think I’d recommend purchasing the Lyr unless one already owns an HE-6 or a Susvara.
> Where the Valhalla sounds like an OTL without the old school husky and to me rather muddy low end, the Lyr/Vali sounds more like a solid state with an ever so slight touch of the ethereal sauce that tends to come with tube amps.
> I would chose the Valhalla over most other amps - at least the ones I’ve heard up until now - and I would not recommend getting either the Vali or Lyr unless one owns a hard to drive planar. I’m fairly certain you’d need more juice than the Valhalla can provide if you own even an HD-500.
> Stay over 90db in sensitivity and preferably over 32 ohms and I’d opt for the Valhalla.
> Biggest difference between Valhalla amd Lyr/Vali? 3D vs 2D.


Thanks man, I appreciate it.


----------



## regaet

Kammerat Rebekka

I was wondering what tubes you are using?


----------



## Kammerat Rebekka

I am using a pair of Philips 6922/E88CC - an idea I stole from my friend who had them installed in his Valhalla. It was this pairing that made me (slightly) prefer the Valhalla over the HA-300 as well as the other amps.
That being said: I genuinely don’t think one needs to change the stock tubes to get great sound. What initially struck me with the Valhalla was that it sounded brilliant without having to change tubes.


----------



## regaet (Feb 14, 2020)

Kammerat Rebekka,

I bought my Valhalla 2 used with no tubes a year ago. Initially, I used Amperex 6dj8 A frames for a while then tried some others and then switched to a pair of Brimar 6bq7 and was happy.  A few months ago I found some RCA and CBS tubes from the 1950s that I have been very pleased with for the last few months. I am very happy with my Valhalla 2!


----------



## tricolor

Hey @judson_w ! folks! Hope all is well!



judson_w said:


> Were this a decade earlier, I would have been in Montreal, though severely lacking in audio equipment.  Enjoy the city.  Last time I visited, I ran across an audio shop in Atwater that had a bunch of McIntosh gear in it.  I did not walk in as it seemed well outside my price range (and I was not in Montreal to pick up audio stuff, though I believe I did pack my modi multibit and my valhalla 2 to let my friend listen).



Right on, thanks... despite short time to  "walk around" due to meetings & training... it was fun to visit 2 mortar & brick shops:   Audio d' occasion & Son Idéal... really cool to feel welcomed, even though I haven't really bought anything... I will definitely keep them in mind next time I'm in town and potentially grab a turntable...


----------



## ScubaMan2017

_*Interesting musing*_: my Valhalla 2 seems to play-better-with (synergy?) my 600 ohm Beyerdynamic DT880 and Senheisser HD-series cans. My newly-acquired Dan Clark Audio (DCA) Ether C Flow seems to be more fun to listen to on my Asgard 2 (both amps are fed by a Bifrost Multibit w/ USB-3).

Pairing different headphones with 4 different Schiit amplification-technologies... and listening to different mid-rez... low-rez... and higher-rez music files. Woot woot.


----------



## Mr.Tom

The Valhalla was designed around the Senn HD650 300ohm load.


----------



## G0rt

I've been using 6BQ7A in in Valhalla2 for a while, and with my several Senns being silly satisfied.

With even more time on my hands than usual, I wired Valhalla2 up to Gumby, vs the usual Bifrost 4490, and with a new pair of 6SN7->6922 adapters, installed a matched pair of NOS black bottle Brimar CV1988.

With HD800S ... spacious.   

I'd got those Brimars for Lyr3, but they'll stay in Valhalla2 for as long as they live, I now think. 

Lyr3 is perfectly happy with clear Brimars, as I've found.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

G0rt said:


> I've been using 6BQ7A in in Valhalla2 for a while, and with my several Senns being silly satisfied.
> 
> With even more time on my hands than usual, I wired Valhalla2 up to Gumby, vs the usual Bifrost 4490, and with a new pair of 6SN7->6922 adapters, installed a matched pair of NOS black bottle Brimar CV1988.
> 
> ...


Nice. *Question*: Are there socket savers tucked under those adaptors?


----------



## G0rt

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Nice. *Question*: Are there socket savers tucked under those adaptors?



Of necessity, yes.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

G0rt said:


> Of necessity, yes.


It's well executed mod, eh. My bloody socket savers and adaptor had oh-so slightly misaligned pins. And the result is a sliiiiiiightly non-perpendicular tube sticking out of my little Vali 2. I started clipping the pins... a bit on one side... and a bit on the other side. With these results.  *It functions perfectly fine. Just. You know. It's NOT 90 degrees perpendicular. And. That's. Not. Right*.


----------



## G0rt

ScubaMan2017 said:


> It's well executed mod, eh. My bloody socket savers and adaptor had oh-so slightly misaligned pins. And the result is a sliiiiiiightly non-perpendicular tube sticking out of my little Vali 2. I started clipping the pins... a bit on one side... and a bit on the other side. With these results.  *It functions perfectly fine. Just. You know. It's NOT 90 degrees perpendicular. And. That's. Not. Right*.



Now that I know I like the combo, I'm considering having custom 1-piece, tall adaptors made.

I mean, the tubes already cost more than the amp, so why not? But dayum, it sounds SO good.


----------



## Gazny

Just joined the VH2 rolling club here on headfi. A little warm in here or maybe that is just my tubes. Anyways, a little fun earbud to use with the VH2 is the now discontinued FAAEAL Narcissus 300 ohm. 

Happy rolling.


----------



## bokononista

Hi guys,
In my Post #1,148 i did some tube comparsion of tubes i have. About the stock tubes i wrote, that they have unique soundstage in a way that you are like "in the sound", but unfortunatelly It has somewhat fuzzy and unfocused imaging.
After some time i bought also different 6N1P tubes to compare with the stock ones. I bought Novosibirsk 6N1P and also Voshkod 6N1P-EV. I have to say that both does not have the fussy imaging as stock ones, so it is definitelly worth a try. The sound is very natural and focused and tubes are not expensive.


----------



## Gazny

bokononista said:


> Hi guys,
> In my Post #1,148 i did some tube comparsion of tubes i have. About the stock tubes i wrote, that they have unique soundstage in a way that you are like "in the sound", but unfortunatelly It has somewhat fuzzy and unfocused imaging.
> After some time i bought also different 6N1P tubes to compare with the stock ones. I bought Novosibirsk 6N1P and also Voshkod 6N1P-EV. I have to say that both does not have the fussy imaging as stock ones, so it is definitelly worth a try. The sound is very natural and focused and tubes are not expensive.


Thanks for the follow up bokononista. I was looking at your thoughts on the Tung-Sol 6CG7 black plate. I was looking to pick up a pair from a very trusted seller. I will have to pick up a few 6N1P-VI(Novosibirsk) and 6N1P-EV(Voskhod), do you have a recommendation where to get them?  Have you had any experience with 6N6P tubes? I believe I might have to change mine soon.


----------



## bokononista

Gazny said:


> Thanks for the follow up bokononista. I was looking at your thoughts on the Tung-Sol 6CG7 black plate. I was looking to pick up a pair from a very trusted seller. I will have to pick up a few 6N1P-VI(Novosibirsk) and 6N1P-EV(Voskhod), do you have a recommendation where to get them?  Have you had any experience with 6N6P tubes? I believe I might have to change mine soon.


I bought it on ebay - there are many russian, ukraine and other sellers selling russian 6N1P and 6N6P tubes. I never got any bad experience with these guys.

Novosibirsk 6N1P, matched pair from 1960s:







Voshkod pair 6N1P-EV from 1975:




I also bought the same year Novosibirsk 6N6P power tubes, because the stock tubes i got had about 5 years of difference in year production:



These power tubes are liitle bit better than stock, but its very subtle difference. I also tried Foton 6N6P power tubes, it got little bit tighter sound but less subbas extension, but difference in power tubes is very very subtle - still hearable.

Difference between 6N1P and 6CG7 is big in sound character - but you have to decide what is good for you, also it very depends what suits your headphones. Maybe try to get 6N1P + 6N6P first from one seller, if you are going to get 6N6P anyway and you will see. Tung-sols 6CG7 are much more expensive. Some people dont like their big soundstage (maybe distant soundstage in front of you). 6N1P does have totally different soundstage - very close and around you. It is the biggest difference between both.


----------



## Gazny

bokononista said:


> I bought it on ebay - there are many russian, ukraine and other sellers selling russian 6N1P and 6N6P tubes. I never got any bad experience with these guys.
> 
> Novosibirsk 6N1P, matched pair from 1960s:
> 
> ...


Great explanation. I personally am looking for a huge sound stage. I am rocking some Raytheon 2C51 right now, They are leaner than the stock tubes, but I got plenty so I have some to give, but I gain more detail on the top end. I am just looking for different sounding tubes, I believe I will have to pick them up. Some of my music is really intimate so it can be great for some tracks. 
Besides I can always roll into something else. 
My experience has been great with this and the 6xx, just wish I tried this amp sooner.


----------



## bokononista (May 12, 2020)

Gazny said:


> Great explanation. I personally am looking for a huge sound stage. I am rocking some Raytheon 2C51 right now, They are leaner than the stock tubes, but I got plenty so I have some to give, but I gain more detail on the top end. I am just looking for different sounding tubes, I believe I will have to pick them up. Some of my music is really intimate so it can be great for some tracks.
> Besides I can always roll into something else.
> My experience has been great with this and the 6xx, just wish I tried this amp sooner.


If you like 2C51, you can try Western Electric 369A - great imaging, i got also (and used them very long as my main tubes) Tung-Sol 2C51 - airy and good soundstage. If you have no experience with 6CG7, definitely try them. All of them are much closer together, because this family is pretty linear. All of them are tight (Valhalla sound is little bit lean so it helps a lot) and have distant soundstage, so you can try even cheaper ones to have an idea (may differ with a different headphones, i use Beyers T1). Those Tung-sols i have just got a better precision and detail than others i have.


----------



## Ripper2860

+1 on the above.  While I love the WE369A on VH2, I actually like the TS 2C51 a tiny bit better.


----------



## G0rt

I recently took a short break from CV1988 to break in a new pair of Mullard 6BQ7A in Valhalla2. 

Not expensive, although this particular set coming from the Netherlands took some time, and they are in most respects comparable to Brimars that I've used before.


----------



## bokononista

G0rt said:


> I recently took a short break from CV1988 to break in a new pair of Mullard 6BQ7A in Valhalla2.
> 
> Not expensive, although this particular set coming from the Netherlands took some time, and they are in most respects comparable to Brimars that I've used before.



I have to say i got some fake Mullards 6BQ7A from Netherlands also, because there is a TAIWAN mark under text - so i suppose its fake . But the sound is not bad.


----------



## G0rt

bokononista said:


> I have to say i got some fake Mullards 6BQ7A from Netherlands also, because there is a TAIWAN mark under text - so i suppose its fake . But the sound is not bad.



Mine look much the same, but I haven't been able to bring out any Taiwan markings. These have halo getter frames.


----------



## G0rt

bokononista said:


> I have to say i got some fake Mullards 6BQ7A from Netherlands also, because there is a TAIWAN mark under text - so i suppose its fake . But the sound is not bad.



Received another pair of these, also without Taiwan markings, although one of them has a 6BZ7 frosting.

After 10+ hours they seem to mellow and sound very clean and balanced to my old ears, much as my Brimars.

I've read that some Mullard shield marked 6BQ7A were actually made by Brimar, but I have no way to verify. 

Comparing these to some early 60's Brimars, they are slightly taller and have a different plate and shield structure, so there's no obvious similarity.

Still, they do sound very good, so will stay in the rotation.


----------



## MrPanda

Wes S said:


> Balanced being better, really depends on the amp, and other factors.  Can't really just say balanced is better.  However, if the same amp has balanced outputs, and se outputs, the balanced are usually always better.  For the price of the Valhalla 2, it is a great way to get into tubes.  Just watch out, it is addicting and won't stop there. . .


I just got a Valhalla 2 -- I'm surprised at how great it sounds, and how many different kinds of headphones I can use with it.  It's a perfect match for the HD 650.... I'm curious how people like ZMF's with it...


----------



## bildar

Its great with zmf. I use my Eikon and auteur with it all the time


----------



## robo24

It's pretty great with my ZMFs (Atticus, Aeolus, Auteur, Verite Open) now that I got the WE396A tubes. I've been waiting for a "wow" experience with the Valhalla 2 and bought a few different sets of recommended tubes, but it wasn't until I got those tubes and the adapters (cheapies on eBay came in 2 weeks instead of 6 estimated). I certainly enjoy it more than I did the Woo WA7, Loxjie P20, or Tube options on my iFi Pro iCAN. Fortunately I can keep the 396As for my iCAN once out of warranty.


----------



## africanicola

Kammerat Rebekka said:


> I am using a pair of Philips 6922/E88CC - an idea I stole from my friend who had them installed in his Valhalla. It was this pairing that made me (slightly) prefer the Valhalla over the HA-300 as well as the other amps.
> That being said: I genuinely don’t think one needs to change the stock tubes to get great sound. What initially struck me with the Valhalla was that it sounded brilliant without having to change tubes.


Thanks to you I tried the pair of Philips and the music is different.
My first impression is a massive improvement on the soundstage with more details on low and treble, I think I will enjoy more and more after the burn in.
Pheraps the difference is due to a second hand Valhalla with old tubes, but it seems to me like the difference between a Mp3 and a Bluray.

Now I would like to roll the 6N6P too, any advice on them?


----------



## Kammerat Rebekka

^Yup. I recommend not rolling them.
The front is where it’s at
I’m glad to hear that you’re digging the combo


----------



## thruhiker

I tried a few times now to place an order on tubemonger.com. Doesn't seem to be operable right now (says I need to fill out the payment details even though I have). Does anyone know where I can purchase the BRIMAR CV4033s? Thanks.


----------



## regaet

thruhiker said:


> I tried a few times now to place an order on tubemonger.com. Doesn't seem to be operable right now (says I need to fill out the payment details even though I have). Does anyone know where I can purchase the BRIMAR CV4033s? Thanks.




Did you try this? https://www.ebay.com/itm/BRIMAR-CV4...992454?hash=item25608311c6:g:cWQAAMXQKQhRGjMC


----------



## thruhiker

regaet said:


> Did you try this? https://www.ebay.com/itm/BRIMAR-CV4...992454?hash=item25608311c6:g:cWQAAMXQKQhRGjMC


That's the ticket. Thanks!


----------



## thruhiker (Jul 18, 2020)

Hmmm, this is day two of owning/using the valhalla and there's now a static noise floor. I wasn't there before. I haven't swapped out any tubes are used different electrical outlets. It's definitely in the amp--I unplugged the inputs. 
There's also, from time to time, a sort of digital drip, drip, drip sound that occurs abruptly, lasts a few seconds, and leaves. I thought for sure that has something to do with the usb out I'm using on my laptop, but I quickly disconnected the rca inputs the last time I heard it and I could still hear it. It's in the amp.


----------



## KoshNaranek

thruhiker said:


> Hmmm, this is day two of owning/using the valhalla and there's now a static noise floor. I wasn't there before. I haven't swapped out any tubes are used different electrical outlets. It's definitely in the amp--I unplugged the inputs.
> There's also, from time to time, a sort of digital drip, drip, drip sound that occurs abruptly, lasts a few seconds, and leaves. I thought for sure that has something to do with the usb out I'm using on my laptop, but I quickly disconnected the rca inputs the last time I heard it and I could still hear it. It's in the amp.


I had the same problem early in my ownership. Take out the tubes, clean the pins and put them back. It cleared up the problem for me. This is why I don't like socket adapters or extenders. More chances for this issue.


----------



## thruhiker

KoshNaranek said:


> I had the same problem early in my ownership. Take out the tubes, clean the pins and put them back. It cleared up the problem for me. This is why I don't like socket adapters or extenders. More chances for this issue.


I just tried. I cleaned them diligently, but the static is ever present. I do have some Brimar tubes coming in the mail. If the static persists after rolling the front tubes for the Brimars, I suppose I'll contact Schitt.


----------



## KoshNaranek

thruhiker said:


> I just tried. I cleaned them diligently, but the static is ever present. I do have some Brimar tubes coming in the mail. If the static persists after rolling the front tubes for the Brimars, I suppose I'll contact Schitt.


The tubes are still the most likely source of the issue. I suggest a pair of new production JJ red or gold tubes to keep as reference. They can help with diagnosis and I think that they sound pretty good to boot.


----------



## thruhiker

KoshNaranek said:


> The tubes are still the most likely source of the issue. I suggest a pair of new production JJ red or gold tubes to keep as reference. They can help with diagnosis and I think that they sound pretty good to boot.


Is there anyway to isolate which tube(s) is/are the culprit without having other tubes yet to roll?


----------



## Ripper2860

Is it in 1 channel or both?


----------



## KoshNaranek

thruhiker said:


> Is there anyway to isolate which tube(s) is/are the culprit without having other tubes yet to roll?


If the problem is in one channel only, you can swap them. 

The tubes that ship with Valhalla are old Russian military tubes that were used in Russian raduos and RADAR sets. The amplification frequencies are well above the audible range. Crackling was immaterial to their military use and subsequently was not a quality control parameter. You may get very nice tubes but it is a bit of a crapshoot. 

Let me know how it goes. Good luck


----------



## thruhiker

Ripper2860 said:


> Is it in 1 channel or both?


Both channels. I experimented a little by slowly pulling out the headphone cable from the input jack. Usually when you do that, you'll hear one channel drop out but maybe you can still hear the other channel. In this case, I could still hear both channels, albeit aurally dimmed, but I didn't hear the static at that point. It's only at full insertion that I hear it. That might not help but it's a data point.
Thanks for helping me problem solve KoshNaranek and Ripper2860.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

thruhiker said:


> Both channels. I experimented a little by slowly pulling out the headphone cable from the input jack. Usually when you do that, you'll hear one channel drop out but maybe you can still hear the other channel. In this case, I could still hear both channels, albeit aurally dimmed, but I didn't hear the static at that point. It's only at full insertion that I hear it. That might not help but it's a data point.
> Thanks for helping me problem solve KoshNaranek and Ripper2860.


Stupid Question - have you tried thoroughly cleaning your headphone plug & jack with alcohol?


----------



## Tralfaz

I just swapped out the stock 6N1Ps and replaced them with GE 6CG7s.  To me things are much improved in terms of midrange clarity and more solid imaging so I'll probably keep them as my default driver tubes going forward.  Has anyone else tried them recently?

Also, in addition to driving various headphones I also use my Valhalla 2 to drive a pair of JBL 305P (originals, not MK II) powered monitors.  If anyone else is using desktop monitors, what are you using and why do you like them?  I suspect the JBLs can be improved upon and would love to get some upgrade suggestions.


----------



## thruhiker

GumbyDammit223 said:


> Stupid Question - have you tried thoroughly cleaning your headphone plug & jack with alcohol?


I cleaned everything as best I could. 
I think the problem is actually the outlets in my office. I moved the entire rig to the bedroom and it's super quiet. I think I need to look into power conditioners if I want to keep the rig in my office.

I also got some really good directional RCA cables and rolled out the supplied tubes for some Brimars. Its great now! Very happy. 

Although, I must say I went back and forth on the original tubes and the Brimars; they both seem to present the music in the same manner--no discernible difference for me. Really appreciate everyone's help on this


----------



## jpearson

Hi guys, I'm fairly new to all this and have recently bought a pair of Tung Sol 2c51 for my Valhalla. They sound great to me, but I read some more about tube "matching" and wonder if the tubes I bought are close enough to be OK...? 

The listing included the following:



> *test @ Up=150V, -Ug=2V, tubes read 8.5/8.8 & 9.4/9.8 mA*


----------



## raf1919

I dont know why but so far the stock sound best to me   I tried gold lions (least fav) and pair gold teslas got off ebay they were ok.  But the stock seem to give me the best soundstage, music just sounds open, and doesn't have high screech for highs that lions had.  maybe just need more seat time but switched back to stock since they didnt get as much seat time.   Have some  Matsushita/National tubes on way to try out.

Maybe once schiit modius arrives it will change things so will keep testing.


----------



## RyanJ

Hello all, new to tube amps and have a valhalla 2 coming in the mail on Monday. I'm pairing it with my hd600's and was wondering if there is a set of tubes that are universally loved for this pairing? I will try the stock ones for a bit, but I'm excited to start rolling. So far I have been eying a set of russian 6n23p's off amazon, but I have no idea how to shop for tubes. Thanks in advance for any input or guidance


----------



## Gazny

RyanJ said:


> Hello all, new to tube amps and have a valhalla 2 coming in the mail on Monday. I'm pairing it with my hd600's and was wondering if there is a set of tubes that are universally loved for this pairing? I will try the stock ones for a bit, but I'm excited to start rolling. So far I have been eying a set of russian 6n23p's off amazon, but I have no idea how to shop for tubes. Thanks in advance for any input or guidance


I would say a pair of  6CG7, they fit on the front and are easy to remove. One of the best IMO.


----------



## RyanJ

Gazny said:


> I would say a pair of  6CG7, they fit on the front and are easy to remove. One of the best IMO.


Thank you so much, I will check them out


----------



## KoshNaranek

RyanJ said:


> Hello all, new to tube amps and have a valhalla 2 coming in the mail on Monday. I'm pairing it with my hd600's and was wondering if there is a set of tubes that are universally loved for this pairing? I will try the stock ones for a bit, but I'm excited to start rolling. So far I have been eying a set of russian 6n23p's off amazon, but I have no idea how to shop for tubes. Thanks in advance for any input or guidance


6cg7 are basically 6sn7 in a nine pin package. They are very Tubey sounding to me. I can see the appeal but were not my favorite. You will have to find out what you like yourself.

A good starting point would be the 6cg7 vs JJ E88CC Red. The Russian tubes you mentioned are going to sound like stock tubes with perhaps a lower noise floor. The 6CG7 have a bit of bloom which you may love, or not. The JJ E88CC red are comparatively dry but don't have the gritty high end of the EH tubes, so I think that they are a better choice between the two.

The JJ E88CC Gold adds more euphonic distortion, which I personally like a lot and I think pairs well with the HD600.


----------



## RyanJ

KoshNaranek said:


> 6cg7 are basically 6sn7 in a nine pin package. They are very Tubey sounding to me. I can see the appeal but were not my favorite. You will have to find out what you like yourself.
> 
> A good starting point would be the 6cg7 vs JJ E88CC Red. The Russian tubes you mentioned are going to sound like stock tubes with perhaps a lower noise floor. The 6CG7 have a bit of bloom which you may love, or not. The JJ E88CC red are comparatively dry but don't have the gritty high end of the EH tubes, so I think that they are a better choice between the two.
> 
> The JJ E88CC Gold adds more euphonic distortion, which I personally like a lot and I think pairs well with the HD600.


Thank you for the insight as to what to expect from different tubes. I agree 100% that I need to find what I like, but yours and Gazny's input are much appreciated and get me pointed in a direction. The JJ golds and the 6cg7's sound like 2 contrasting sets to get me started


----------



## KoshNaranek

RyanJ said:


> Thank you for the insight as to what to expect from different tubes. I agree 100% that I need to find what I like, but yours and Gazny's input are much appreciated and get me pointed in a direction. The JJ golds and the 6cg7's sound like 2 contrasting sets to get me started


Give us follow up on your thoughts. This is a community after all.


----------



## Minkypou

i have the eh6922 , JJ e88cc and some nos 1970 orange globes amperex made in holland , the orange globes are my favorite by far . really sweet buterry tone , and still detailled , liked them with the hd800s , still my favs with the meze 99 noir . that headphone being warm , i was wondering if it was gonna be a good pairing , still is the best . i was disapointed in the eh6922 , jj e88cc are kind of ok to my ears , accurate sound but missing something i feel .


----------



## RyanJ

KoshNaranek said:


> Give us follow up on your thoughts. This is a community after all.


of course, will share my take after I have logged some hours with it. also, army of darkness was the best of the evil dead movies


----------



## Wes S (Jan 1, 2021)

Happy New Year, tube rollers!

I am looking for a pair of 12au7 to 6922 adapters, and was wondering if anyone in this thread has a pair, that they would be willing to sell? I prefer the Tubemonger type, but will consider other options as well. Thanks for your time, and fingers crossed one of you has a spare set they will sell me.


*EDIT* - *I just found a pair of adapters, so won't be looking for anymore.  Thanks*


----------



## Wes S (Jan 1, 2021)

Hey there fellow V2 owners!

The V2 was my first headphone amp, that I bought back in 2016.  I used it with a Mimby, HD600/650 and DT1770 back in the day, and loved every second.  I eventually stopped using the V2, put it away for storage and moved on to other amps.  I really thought I would never use it again, but kept it and all the tubes I bought for it just in case.  Well, a couple of days ago I was talking with another forum member about ZMF dynamics (300 ohm headphones that play very well with OTL's) and he mentioned the V2 as a possible amp purchase.  I remembered mine and pulled it out, just to test it out with my ZMF Atticus, to let the member know how it sounded.  Long story short, I removed my Bottlehead Crack from the desk, and the V2 has now taken its place.  I am using the V2 currently with my Gungnir Multibit, ZMF Atticus, and a pair of Reflektor 6N3P Triple Mica tubes from the 50's (with adapters) and I am completely blown away by how immersive, capable and fun this combo is.  The soundstage is huge, the detail is all there, and the tonality and timbre is killer!  There is definitely such a thing as synergy with components, and I have discovered a great one. I am an avid tube roller, and can't wait to get some adapters and start rolling some more tubes. I have only rolled 6992, 7308, 2C51/396a/6n3p, so far and I am really looking forward to rolling my top tier 12au7's once I find some adapters. Anyways, this is my long winded post, about how enamored I am all over again with my first headphone amp.  The last time I visited this thread was back in 2017, so it looks like I have some reading to do. . .


----------



## Wes S (Jan 1, 2021)

The tubes I have rolled so far this time around have been -

*Sylvania* *6922* *D Getters 50’s* -  My favorite tube in the 6922 family.  This tube has huge deep and tight bass, transparent mids with a touch of lower mid warmth and nice extended highs with zero harshness.  The soundstage is huge, being both wide and deep.  My favorite 6922 for a good reason, and unfortunately rare as can be.

*Western Electric 2C51/396a  Square Getters 50’s* - Warm, thick and full sounding.  This tube sounds very natural, warm, and balanced, and is definitely a step up from most 6922’s.  Powerful bass, but not quite as tight as Sylvania 6922 D Getters.  If you are trying to tame a bright headphone this tube can help, without sacrificing detail.   The soundstage is big and wide.

*Tung Sol JTL 5670 Square Getters Black Plate *- Transparent, detailed, and huge sounding.  This tube is cleaner in the mids and treble, with even harder hitting bass than the WE 396a.  The bass is strong and punchy, the mids are clean, clear and snappy, and the highs sparkle.  This tube sounds faster and cleaner than the WE 396a, with really good texture and snap to the notes, while still maintaining that euphonic tube sound.  I love this tube paired up with my Atticus.

*Reflektor 6N3P Triple Mica 50’s *-  This is my favorite tube so far, and has the biggest most holographic soundstage I have heard yet.  This tube has very good PRAT and just gets me moving and grooving to the music instantly.  There is a very similar snappiness to the notes as the Tung Sol, that gets the feet tapping, with a bit more weight to the notes as well, which I really like.  The bass is full, strong and punchy, although not quite as tight as Tung Sol, but it has a bit more presence and power.  The mids have some warmth in the lower region with good texture, and really good detail in the upper region, and the highs have just the right amount of shimmer.  There is an organic and natural sound I can't get enough of, and the way this tube does vocals and imaging of instruments is unique and fun as heck.  The 3Dness or holographic like stage and those lifelike vocals that soar with a limitless ceiling, are my favorite aspects of this tube.  Definitely a step up from the other 3 tubes mentioned so far, and I am thinking it is gonna take one of my top tier 12au7’s to dethrone this tube.

More Tubes that I have from the 6922 family that I plan to roll today are -

Amperex 7308 PQ White Label
Brimar CV2492
Philips Holland E188CC grey plate big getter
Telefunken E88CC
Bugle Boy ECC88 D Getters

As mentioned previously, I also own a bunch of amazing and rare 12au7’s, that I will be rolling once my adapters arrive, so more to come.

Happy Rolling and Listening!


----------



## Wes S (Jan 1, 2021)

It's been about 4 years since last listening with my V2, and I am loving it!  My taste in sound since then, has changed quite a bit.  I have gone from a basshead who did not even know what mids were, to a full on mids guy, and bass second, and highs last.  So, back when I was a basshead using the Valhalla it never really completely satisfied.  I still love my bass, however my taste has evolved and I now favor a more balance sound, and even talk about the highs.  I also, have a much better pair of headphones (ZMF Atticus & Aeolus) and DAC (Schiit Gungnir Multibit) to pair with my V2, and I can really appreciate the amp a lot more now.

So, I rolled in the Telefunken E88CC I got from Upscale Audio back in the day, and damn this tube sounds killer.  I never really liked it before, but I decided to start with my most "neutral" tube for today's tube rolling adventures, and I am glad I did.  I have to say I am impressed.

Listening to my V2 today, has been like hanging out with an old friend, I never really knew until now.  

Telefunken E88CC & Stock Power Tubes


----------



## Wes S (Jan 1, 2021)

Some of today's rolls . . .


----------



## Wes S (Jan 2, 2021)

More rolls today . . .


----------



## regaet

Wes S said:


> More rolls today . . .
> 
> And............................Impressions?????????????????????????????


----------



## Wes S (Jan 3, 2021)

LOL! @regaet -  Impressions of all tubes in pics, coming shortly. . .  I will say the WE JW 2C51, are currently in the pole position.


----------



## Wes S (Jan 3, 2021)

I am wrapping up this weekend's tube roll off with my beloved V2, and the top 6 tubes I prefer have emerged.   I will provide detailed summaries of all tubes after today's final roll off.  I had a blast, and some of these tubes really surprised me. 

From left to right - Amperex PQ 7308, Tung Sol JTL 5670, Philips SQ E188CC, Telefunken E88CC, Reflektor 6N3P Triple Mica, and Western Electric JW 2C51.


----------



## regaet

Thanks for the update!


----------



## Wes S (Jan 3, 2021)

Ripper2860 said:


> I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment of VH2.  There's just something about it that leads me to listen to it even more-so than my Lyr 3!!  My favorite HP with VH2 is the Hifiman Ananda (I upgraded from Sundara).  It is a low impedance headphone, but thanks to its efficiency, it works wonderfully with VH2, much to the chagrin of my HD6XX cans.
> 
> As far as tubes go -- I STRONGLY suggest rolling in a 12AU7 or 12AT7 class tube (adapter needed for both).  The best pairing I have found with VH2 is the Brimar CV4033s.  They are absolutely wonderfully detailed with a lush (not gooey) midrange coupled with nice shimmery top-end and nice extended bottom-end with a touch of slam.  They run about $45 each at Tubemonger and are an excellent pairing with the Hifiman sound.


Been digging through old post, and this is one I was happy to find.  I actually have 2 pairs of the CV4033 from Tubemonger on the way, that I just purchased this morning on a rec from another member.  I absolutely love the CV4034 in my Liquid Platinum, so I know what the CV4033 are capable of, and can't wait to hear them in the V2!


----------



## Ripper2860

Well, now you've done it, @Wes S .  Just when I thought I had moved on...

I moved Incubus and Arya / AFC HPs into my listening room with my VH2 relegated to a shelf as it just will not drive Arya or AFCs and my HD6XX listening was just too little to displace Lyr 3.  Well now that I have only HD6XX HP for my work rig, I decided to dust VH2 off and roll it in and roll-out Lyr 3 for a bit after reading your post.  Geez Louise -- I had forgotten how good VH2 pairs with HD6XX!  Not ready to say it will be displacing Lyr 3, but the fact that I'm not ready to say says a whole lot about how good this amp really is, IMHO!!  Currently have the TM CV-4033s in and will likely move onto the Western Electric WE396A  JC versions for a comparo at a later time.  As I recall, I really loved the soundstage on those.


----------



## Wes S (Jan 3, 2021)

Ripper2860 said:


> Well, now you've done it, @Wes S .  Just when I thought I had moved on...
> 
> I moved Incubus and Arya / AFC HPs into my listening room with my VH2 relegated to a shelf as it just will not drive Arya or AFCs and my HD6XX listening was just too little to displace Lyr 3.  Well now that I have only HD6XX HP for my work rig, I decided to dust VH2 off and roll it in and roll-out Lyr 3 for a bit after reading your post.  Geez Louise -- I had forgotten how good VH2 pairs with HD6XX!  Not ready to say it will be displacing Lyr 3, but the fact that I'm not ready to say says a whole lot about how good this amp really is, IMHO!!  Currently have the TM CV-4033s in and will likely move onto the Western Electric WE396A  JC versions for a comparo at a later time.  As I recall, I really loved the soundstage on those.


Awesome man!  My LP definitely has better technical performance, but there is just something special with 300 ohm headphones and the V2.  I can't wait to get my CV4033.


----------



## markkr

Argh... I had finally settled on Lyr3 with CBS Hytron 5692, and put my VH2 up for sale... now you have me wondering if I just needed different tubes for VH2


----------



## Wes S (Jan 6, 2021)

Hey fellow V2 tube rollers!  I have wrapped up my tube rolling marathon that I started over this past weekend and I have some interesting results.

The system used to evaluate the tubes - Qobuz HiRez > Bluesound Node 2i > Schiit Gungnir Multibit > Schitt Valhalla 2 > ZMF Atticus w/ Norne Audio Draug 3 cable >  

I was a bit surprised with the outcome, and found the "one".  What I look for in a tube first and foremost, is a tonality and timbre that sounds lifelike.  Then I look for tight hard hitting bass, clean mids, foward vocals, and smooth extended treble.  Lastly, I like a holographic and wide soundstage and the bigger the better.

1.  *Amperex Holland Bugle Boy ECC88 D Getters 58' - *Outstanding tube and my favorite out of the bunch. Bass hits hard and is tight and textured to perfection, mids are clean clear and snappy with vocals front and center, and the highs sparkle and shimmer. This tube has some warmth from the big midbass, but never bleeds into the mids. The soundstage is as holographic as it gets. Overall, this tube is dynamic, detailed and lifelike more than any of the other tubes listed. I am hearing things in the recording, that I don't hear with any of the other tubes, all while never being fatiguing. This tube is incredible, and is my current number 1 recommendation for the Valhalla 2, at the moment.

2.  *Tung Sol Black Plate Square Getter 2C51/396a - *Dynamic, tight and big. This tube is very good, and has a clean sound with big bass. This tube is cleaner sounding than the WE 396a, and has tighter and stronger bass, as well.  The soundstage is huge, being wide and deep. This tube is really good, but compared to the Bugle Boy D Getter ECC88, they don't sound quite as lifelike and miss out on some of the micro detail.

3.  *Amperex 7308 PQ USA 64' - *This tube is outstanding as well, and is the most unique of the bunch. The bass is tight textured and impactful with a midbass focus. The mids are super forward and especially the vocals. With this tube it feels as if you are standing on stage and you are the one singing. The holographic soundstage is in full effect with this tube, and sounds explode all around your head coming in and out of focus. The speed of this tube, is unmatched and the notes have good snap, and weight to them. The dynamics are the strong suit of this tube. Overall, this tube sounds very lifelike, forward, impactful, and detailed, but is very forward.

4.  *Philips E188CC SQ Grey Shield Big O Getter Holland 65' - *Big, warm and wide. This tube is warm overall with somewhat bloated, but super powerful bass. In fact, this tube has the strongest and biggest bass of all tubes listed. The mids are creamy, and the vocals are smooth as butter and some of the most pleasing I have heard. The highs are extended, and the soundstage is wide and deep. Overall, this tube sounds slower and more romantic, but lacks detail.

5.  *Western Electric JW 2C51/396a Square Getter 52' - *Warm, balanced and smooth. This tube is what you want when you are looking for some warmth, but don't want to sacrifice balance and detail. The bass is strong, but not as tight as the Tung Sol 2C51, and the overall sound is very similar. This tube has a really good soundstage that goes wide and deep.

6.  *Reflektor 6N3P Triple Mica 50's - *This tube is the most "V shaped" of all tubes tested. The bass is big, strong and tight and leaves you wanting nothing. Then we get to the mids, and this is where this tube falls short and sounds a bit thin and uneven. The vocals are decent, and the highs are extended but never harsh. This tube is unique in that overall it sounds warm, but has those uneven mids that sound thin at times, so you get this contrasting sound, that sounds a bit strange.

7.  *Brimar CV2492 *- Smooth, wide and dynamic.  This tube is very balanced overall.  The bass is deep, tight and big, with a subbass focus.  The mids are well balanced and the vocals are big and forward.  The highs are where this tube shines and they are outstanding.  This is the tube for "treble heads" no doubt.

8.  *Sylvania 6922 D Getter* - Big, wide and transparent.  This tube has big bass that rivals the Philips E188CC.  The mids are super transparent and the highs have sparkle.  The bass is subbass focused, and as a result the sound is a bit thin compared to the others.  This tube is very good and well balanced, but just does not have the magic with other stuff in the chain.  I love this tube in my LP (my favorite of all 6922's), but could not really jive with it in my V2.

Honorable Mention goes to the Telefunken E88CC, as this tube was the most neutral tube of the bunch, that actually really surprised me.  When I used this tube back in the day, with lesser gear in the chain, I was not impressed at all.  However, with better gear in the chain and especially headphones, this tube is smooth, detailed and balanced, with a killer holographic soundstage.  This tube is so linear, that it does not have any flare or character and becomes a bit boring after a while.  Overall, this tube is really really good, and in the right situation could be the "one", but it is definitely not worth the crazy prices they are going for.

It was a lot of fun rolling all the tubes I collected back in the day, and I am so happy with the performance of this amp with the Bugle Boy ECC88 D Getters and my ZMF Atticus, that I am waking up early and going to bed late, to get as much listening time as I can.  Overall, the Valhalla 2 has this very a pleasing clean and dynamic sound, with really good detail and vocals, and a crazy fun holographic soundstage.  I have more tubes and adapters arriving by the end of this week, and will report back once I have rolled those.  More fun to come . . .


----------



## Wes S

My current # 1 tube in the V2, that I highly recommend.

Amperex Holland Bugle Boy ECC88 D Getters 58'


----------



## Wes S (Jan 6, 2021)

A very special tube arrived in the mail today!

Brimar CV4033





The adapters should arrive tomorrow, and then it's on!  I have it on good authority, these tubes are on another level, and I can't wait to find out for myself.


----------



## G0rt

Wes S said:


> A very special tube arrived in the mail today!
> 
> Brimar CV4033
> 
> ...



One of my favorites, just lovely in my MJ2 or VH2.


----------



## Wes S

G0rt said:


> One of my favorites, just lovely in my MJ2 or VH2.


Awesome!


----------



## Wes S (Jan 7, 2021)

12au7/12at7 to 6922 Adapters are out for delivery!  

This is going to be a fun weekend and here are the first 3 sets of tubes that will be rolled.  The first 2 pairs are as rare as they come, and the 3rd pair is very unique.

Raytheon 7730 Long Plate D Getter






Valvo Hamburg ECC82 Long Plate Foil D Getter 56'




Brimar CV4033




Happy Rolling and Listening!


----------



## Wes S

Oh my word!  These Brimar CV4033 tubes are freaking legit!


----------



## Ripper2860

Happy to hear that, Wes.  I know I love mine on VH2 -- maybe even a bit more than the CV-4034.


----------



## Wes S

Ripper2860 said:


> Happy to hear that, Wes.  I know I love mine on VH2 -- maybe even a bit more than the CV-4034.


Thanks bro!  I plan to roll the CV4034 as well for comparison.  However, that might be a while as it's gonna be hard for me to pull these CV4033, because they sound so good that I can't stop listening.  It's gonna be a late night . . .


----------



## Zwarteziel

Hi all,

earlier this day, I asked a question about rolling tubes on a Valhalla 1 on reddit. I was pointed at this thread, so I hope someone can help me with the following:

I’ve owned the Valhalla for quite some time and have always used it to drive a Sennheiser HD650. I have generally liked the sound of it and haven’t really desired upgrading or changing things. Recently however, I have been given a set of matched “JJ E88CC 6299 Gold” tubes, which I understand can be used as inputs in the Valhalla version 2.
I would like to know if they can be used in my earlier model as well. I'm afraid of damaging my amp or the tubes.

I've contacted Schiit and they stated that: "_As long as the voltages line up and the tubes are the equivalent to what the originals were, you should be able to_". I like tube amps and their aesthetics, but am very unfamiliar with the way the electronics work or how I judge the tubes' individual characteristics. My first question would simply be: Has someone perhaps already tried rolling these tubes in the Valhalla?

I am currently also trying to learn how tubes work and what their characteristics mean, but I could use some help. I looked up the characteristics of my current input-tubes (6N1P’s) and the ones I’ve been given (JJ E88CC 6299’s). While a lot of values differ, I am wondering which ones are crucial for their correct operation? I live in Europe, so the amp runs of the 220v mains.

Here's some stuff I've compared:


CharateristicE88CC6N1PUnitVh_ (heater voltage)_6,36,3VIf _(heater current)_300600mAVa _(DC plate voltage, I think?)_90250VIa157,5mA-Vg1?7,5mAS12.54.4mA/Vµ3335Ri  (= gm = plate resistance?)2.64.4K OhmReq.300?Va max.220300VIk max.2025mAPa max.2.0 / 1.5?WRg1 max.1.00.5M Ohm

My second question would be: what charateristics would be essential in comparing the tubes (Vh, If and Va?)

Thank you kindly for any answers.


----------



## Wes S (Jan 8, 2021)

So, I spent all night listening with the CV4033 in the V2, and I have never heard music sound so lifelike ever. This tube in the V2 with my Atticus is unreal! The impact, holographic stage, tonality and timbre are all on another level compared to all the other tubes I own. I honestly knew they were going to be good, but I did not expect this.  I literally can feel the notes as they hang in the air and I feel like I can reach out and touch the musicians and their instruments. At first listen, I stood up and closed my eyes and got a bit dizzy, as it was so hard to tell if I was there with the musicians or in my room. The sound literally feels like it expands out into the entire room, and the headphones just disappear.  This is what I call "tube magic" and the CV4033 has it in spades.  Sounds come at me from all directions and the projection of sound is incredibly deep from front to back, and really gives the holographic effect like no other tubes.  Also, I am hearing things in the recording I have never heard, even with my "cap modded" Liquid Platinum, "Holy Grail" 12AU7's and Aelous combo and there is zero harshness or fatigue. I still have some hours to go for complete burn in, but what I am hearing so far is fantastic and I can't imagine it getting any better.

I bought 3 versions of the CV4033 available from Tubemonger, and I am set for life.





For anyone looking for "next level" type of sound with their V2, I highly suggest you find some adapters and buy the CV4033 tubes from Tubemonger.  I have a bunch of "Holy Grail" level tubes, and none of them even come close to what the CV4033 can do as far as sounding holographic, impactful and lifelike.

I woke up at 3:30 am and actually took the day off work, so I can spend all day getting acquainted with my new favorite setup.  Listening to this setup is an amazing experience, that I just can't get enough of!

Quboz HiRez > Bluesound Node 2i > Schiit Gungnir Multibit > Valhalla 2 with CV4033 > ZMF Atticus w/ Norne Draug 3s >   = "End Game"


----------



## GumbyDammit223

Wes S said:


> So, I spent all night listening with the CV4033 in the V2, and I have never heard music sound so lifelike ever. This tube in the V2 with my Atticus is unreal! The impact, holographic stage, tonality and timbre are all on another level compared to all the other tubes I own. I honestly knew they were going to be good, but I did not expect this.  I literally can feel the notes as they hang in the air and I feel like I can reach out and touch the musicians and their instruments. At first listen, I stood up and closed my eyes and got a bit dizzy, as it was so hard to tell if I was there with the musicians or in my room. The sound literally feels like it expands out into the entire room, and the headphones just disappear.  This is what I call "tube magic" and the CV4033 has it in spades.  Sounds come at me from all directions and the projection of sound is incredibly deep from front to back, and really gives the holographic effect like no other tubes.  Also, I am hearing things in the recording I have never heard, even with my "cap modded" Liquid Platinum, "Holy Grail" 12AU7's and Aelous combo and there is zero harshness or fatigue. I still have some hours to go for complete burn in, but what I am hearing so far is fantastic and I can't imagine it getting any better.
> 
> I bought 3 versions of the CV4033 available from Tubemonger, and I am set for life.
> 
> ...


Gee, thanks...  Now you're going to make me spend more money on tubes! Do you have a recommendation on adapters? I guess this is as good of reason as any to spend some of that "stimulus" money!


----------



## GumbyDammit223

Wes S said:


> Oh my word!  These Brimar CV4033 tubes are freaking legit!


Oh, and another question - how are those labels handling the heat?  Are you leaving them on, or eventually removing them before they burn off?


----------



## G0rt

GumbyDammit223 said:


> Oh, and another question - how are those labels handling the heat?  Are you leaving them on, or eventually removing them before they burn off?



I've used these (same as the rightmost in the photo) in my MJ2 almost exclusively for the last year or so, and the labels are immune to the heat. 

I have another pair in the rotation for my VH2. They're very, very good.


----------



## Wes S (Jan 8, 2021)

The labels are staying on mine and add some serious character to the look of the tube.  These labels were last triple checked and written on back in 1960, and how cool is that!  The amount of time and testing that went into these tubes is amazing, and especially for the price. As @G0rt  said, they are fine with heat.





This combo sounds hauntingly lifelike!  

ZMF Atticus > Valhalla 2 w/ CV4033 60'


----------



## GumbyDammit223

Wes S said:


> The labels are staying on mine and add some serious character to the look of the tube.  These labels were last triple checked and written on back in 1960, and how cool is that!  The amount of time and testing that went into these tubes is amazing, and especially for the price. As @G0rt  said, they are fine with heat.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Where did you get the tube adapters?  I couldn't find anything through my search this morning.


----------



## Wes S (Jan 8, 2021)

GumbyDammit223 said:


> Where did you get the tube adapters?  I couldn't find anything through my search this morning.


Tubemonger.  
https://www.tubemonger.com/12Axx_to...IB_1960s_p/12axx-ecc88-adap-novib-mcmurdo.htm

They are currently out of stock, but told me they should be back in stock in a couple of weeks.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

Wes S said:


> Tubemonger.
> https://www.tubemonger.com/12Axx_to...IB_1960s_p/12axx-ecc88-adap-novib-mcmurdo.htm
> 
> They are currently out of stock, but told me they should be back in stock in a couple of weeks.


Sweet!  Thanks!


----------



## Wes S

If any tube rollers are looking for some killer 6922’s and variants, I have listed some of my "Holy Grail" versions in the classifieds, at very good prices.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tubes-for-sale-holy-grail-6922’s-and-variants-priced-to-sell.951868/


----------



## Ripper2860

All gone!!  You must REALLY be loving those CV-4033s!!


----------



## Wes S (Jan 10, 2021)

Ripper2860 said:


> All gone!!  You must REALLY be loving those CV-4033s!!


Yes sir,  that was insanely fast and the first one interested bought the whole lot! I am loving the CV4033 and they are it for me.  I have never heard such an amazingly lifelike sound and synergy, with my Atticus. 

The way the CV4033 is able to project the stage forward and backwards (3D/Holographic), to completely envelope you in sound, really adds another dimension I have not heard in headphones until now. The seperation of instruments detail and imaging within that stage is incredible, and the speed, impact and natural decay of the notes, really adds to the sense of realism. Man, I could go on and on about this tube, but what I just described is what stands out the most.

My ZMF Atticus, Gumby and the V2 w/ CV4033 has me rediscovering my music library all over again.  I am hearing things in the recording I have never heard before and it's like hearing songs for the first time.  Quite amazing for the price!  My "Hot Rodded" Liquid Platinum has not been turned on since getting the CV4033 and is feeling neglected.  Long live Schiit!


----------



## Wes S

I listed the remaining of my 6922's for sale, if anyone is looking for some top notch rare tubes at very low prices, send me a PM.  

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/more-tubes-for-sale-holy-grail-6922-and-variants-nos.951956/


----------



## basstrombone80

Hi, All, I’m new to tube-rolling and did a search through this thread for JHS 6189/12AU7WA tubes.  Has anyone had experience with these tubes with the Valhalla?  Got a pair for free, and wondering if they are compatible.  Not knowing much about tubes, I’m hesitant to try these without reaching out to you all first.  Thanks!


----------



## Ripper2860

They are not natively supported.  You will need an adapter.


----------



## Wes S

My 3rd and final lot of 6922, 7308, and ECC88 for sale, at crazy low prices, for anyone looking for rare top tier tubes 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/red...922-ecc88-rare-holy-grail-tubes-lot-3.952049/


----------



## regaet

My ZMF Atticus, Gumby and the V2 w/ CV4033 has me rediscovering my music library all over again.  I am hearing things in the recording I have never heard before and it's like hearing songs for the first time.  Quite amazing for the price!  My "Hot Rodded" Liquid Platinum has not been turned on since getting the CV4033 and is feeling neglected.  Long live Schiit!   
[/QUOTE]

Thank you for comparing all the tubes I have wondered about but could not afford to try myself and comparing them to one I had contemplated several times that was affordable. I have been listening to the Brimars for two days now and although I don't have the gear you do my Eitr, Mimby, Valhalla and slightly modified Elears sound like I have a new system!! Thanks again!!


----------



## Wes S (Jan 23, 2021)

My Tubemonger Socket Savers (back in stock), have arrived, as well as my pair of Foton 6N6P Gold Grid Square Getters.  This is gonna be a fun weekend.  

This is an incredible tube combo folks, and is the best I have heard in headphones yet. It really is quite stunning, just how affordable this setup is, for how freaking good it sounds. Listening with my ZMF Atticus, it's as if I am "there", the headphones disappear and sound just fills the entire room.  Quite the experience, and it's like hearing every song for the first time.  You hear everything in the recording, which really adds to the lifelike experience.

A little tube glow, with the Foton 6N6P Gold Grid Square Shaped Foil Getter (earliest version) & Brimar CV4033 w/ Tubemonger Adapters and Socket Savers.


----------



## jpearson

Wes S said:


> My Tubemonger Socket Savers (back in stock), have arrived, as well as my pair of Foton 6N6P Gold Grid Square Getters.  This is gonna be a fun weekend.
> 
> This is an incredible tube combo folks, and is the best I have heard in headphones yet. It really is quite stunning, just how affordable this setup is, for how freaking good it sounds. I am "there", the headphones disappear and sound just fills the entire room.  Quite the experience, and it's like hearing every song for the first time.  You hear everything in the recording, which really adds to the lifelike experience.
> 
> A little tube glow, with the Foton 6N6P Gold Grid Square Shaped Foil Getter (earliest version) & Brimar CV4033 w/ Tubemonger Adapters and Socket Savers.



Excuse my ignorance, but what's the difference between an adapter and a socket saver?


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jan 22, 2021)

An adapter adapts to allow one to use one tube type on an amp designed for another.  A socket saver does not 'adapt' and is just a straight pin-to-pin passthough.  It is often used to reduce wear on the amp socket from tube swapping or in my case to raise tubes higher for better heat dissipation.



Wes S said:


> My Tubemonger Socket Savers (back in stock), have arrived, as well as my pair of Foton 6N6P Gold Grid Square Getters.  This is gonna be a fun weekend.
> 
> This is an incredible tube combo folks, and is the best I have heard in headphones yet. It really is quite stunning, just how affordable this setup is, for how freaking good it sounds. I am "there", the headphones disappear and sound just fills the entire room.  Quite the experience, and it's like hearing every song for the first time.  You hear everything in the recording, which really adds to the lifelike experience.
> 
> A little tube glow, with the Foton 6N6P Gold Grid Square Shaped Foil Getter (earliest version) & Brimar CV4033 w/ Tubemonger Adapters and Socket Savers.



OMG.  That is my EXACT VH2 tube setup -- Foton Gold Grids and CV-4033 with TM socket savers!  We are brothers from different mothers!!


----------



## Wes S

Ripper2860 said:


> An adapter adapts to allow one to use one tube type on an amp designed for another.  A socket saver does not 'adapt' and is just a straight pin-to-pin passthough.  It is often used to reduce wear on the amp socket from tube swapping or in my case to raise tubes higher for better heat dissipation.
> 
> 
> 
> OMG.  That is my EXACT VH2 tube setup -- Foton Gold Grids and CV-4033 with TM socket savers!  We are brothers from different mothers!!


Man!  This combo is insane bro!  Glad to know, I am not the only one enjoying this.    I really can't believe how good my Atticus sounds.


----------



## Wes S (Jan 23, 2021)

Schiit Valhalla 2 = $350
Tubemonger Brimar CV4033 = $90 for a pair
Tubemonger 12AU7 to 6922 adapters = $50 
Foton 6N6P Gold Grid = $30 for a pair

So, for around a total of $520, I am getting "TOTL" sound.  Stunning!


----------



## Wes S (Jan 23, 2021)

Listening to one of my all-time favorite songs, Punch Brothers - Julep, and I literally shed a tear.  The music sounds so real, and you can feel the emotion.  It's like I just sat in on a private performance with the Punch Brothers.


----------



## Wes S (Jan 23, 2021)

Schiit Gungnir Multibit + Valhalla 2 w/  CV4033 & Foton 6N6P tubes + ZMF Atticus = End Game Sound.

Synergy is real.


----------



## jpearson

Ripper2860 said:


> An adapter adapts to allow one to use one tube type on an amp designed for another.  A socket saver does not 'adapt' and is just a straight pin-to-pin passthough.  It is often used to reduce wear on the amp socket from tube swapping or in my case to raise tubes higher for better heat dissipation.
> 
> 
> 
> OMG.  That is my EXACT VH2 tube setup -- Foton Gold Grids and CV-4033 with TM socket savers!  We are brothers from different mothers!!





Wes S said:


> Schiit Valhalla 2 = $350
> Tubemonger Brimar CV4033 = $90 for a pair
> Tubemonger 12AU7 to 6922 adapters = $50
> Foton 6N6P Gold Grid = $30 for a pair
> ...



@Wes S and @Ripper2860 - what difference does the Foton make vs stock? I've seen people say the output tubes can't be rolled, but you're using the same class of tube, right? Please correct my mistakes (I'm fairly new to all of this)!


----------



## Ripper2860

It's been so long since I've had the stock VH2 power tubes in, that I frankly cannot completely recall the differences vs Foton.  I feel comfortable saying it was a more extended / controlled bass and a tad smoother / more relaxed sound.  It was definitely more of a subtle / nuanced thing and not a day/night difference as is most upgrades once you get to a certain point.  Driver tubes absolutely make the biggest difference w/ VH2, however, at least for me.  I'll let @Wes S expound further as his HPs are far more revealing than the HD6XX that I use.


----------



## regaet (Jan 30, 2021)

Wes S said:


> Listening to one of my all-time favorite songs, Punch Brothers - Julep, and I literally shed a tear.  The music sounds so real, and you can feel the emotion.  It's like I just sat in on a private performance with the Punch Brothers.



Listening to Moonshiner (one of my favorites) right now and I believe the Brimars are getting better as they are breaking in. Thx for reminding me of the Punch Brothers


----------



## JohnnyOps (Jan 25, 2021)

djdonis said:


> Quote:
> 
> The tube in the picture is 6N1P-VE which does not exist outside eBay. The numbers are printed on the tubes using some kind of printer. diyaudio forums mentioned that this could be fake chinese tube made look like vintage soviet. The only 6n1p variants produced in USSR are regular 6n1p and military 6n1p-EV (not VE) version with the getter on top attached on both sides of the internal shield, plus additional mica spacer. The best sounding 6n1p have cccp pentagon sign on them and have carbon plated internal shield (in addition to cathodes). EV versions I've seen have non-carbonized internal shield and they sound somewhat brighter. The screening on original tubes is light bronze color. "OTK" stamps are stamped by hand (it's a QC stamp) after testing the tube and it is usually a rhombus with OTK inside plus the number identifying the person doing the testing. Genuine OTK stamps are usually dark blue lacker (not etching, not white) and are found everywhere on the tube. If you see OTK stamp that looks perfect and appears consistently in the same place - fake - tubes come from surplus storage with no testing done on them.


Hi... I know this is an old post but this is the closest I could come. These are also tubes with “perfect unsmudged” CCCR over little man inside pentagon, with 6N1P over VI[theta]83, and an H (N) under the theta. Not sure if that is visible in this pic... but I’m wondering:
A) does anyone know what this is?
B) is this safe to run in a Mjolnir 2?  I’ve read varying things about heater current required and potential damage and whether various 6N1P’s are drop in for 6922’s or not.





thanks
John


----------



## KoshNaranek

JohnnyOps said:


> Hi... I know this is an old post but this is the closest I could come. These are also tubes with “perfect unsmudged” CCCR over little man inside pentagon, with 6N1P over VI[theta]83, and an H (N) under the theta. Not sure if that is visible in this pic... but I’m wondering:
> A) does anyone know what this is?
> B) is this safe to run in a Mjolnir 2?  I’ve read varying things about heater current required and potential damage and whether various 6N1P’s are drop in for 6922’s or not.
> 
> ...


The heater current requirement is too much for Mjolnir. They can work in Valhalla and Lyr 1 only.


----------



## Wes S

jpearson said:


> @Wes S and @Ripper2860 - what difference does the Foton make vs stock? I've seen people say the output tubes can't be rolled, but you're using the same class of tube, right? Please correct my mistakes (I'm fairly new to all of this)!


They are the same tube, just made in a different (better) factory.  

As far as sound differences, the Foton's add more depth, layering, and a more organic sound.  They take that last bit of edge off the notes, and everything sounds easier on the ears and more natural/realistic.


----------



## jpearson

Wes S said:


> They are the same tube, just made in a different (better) factory.
> 
> As far as sound differences, the Foton's add more depth, layering, and a more organic sound.  They take that last bit of edge off the notes, and everything sounds easier on the ears and more natural/realistic.



Thanks @Wes S and @Ripper2860 - this is really good to hear. Got some on the way to join my WE 396A! 😊


----------



## Wes S

The V2 with CV4033 and Foton 6N6P is so freaking good, that I just sold off what was my favorite amp, the Liquid Platinum.  My LP was cap modded and used 12au7's w/adapters, and many considered this to sound as good as $1500 - $2000 amps.  Well, my V2 sounds even better, and this is still blowing my mind.


----------



## schneiderdn1974 (Feb 8, 2021)

Question for those of you who know tubes: For rolling into my Valhalla 2, I recently ordered four "RCA Clear Top 6CG7" tubes from tubedepot.com and received three tubes that I believe are correct, and a forth that appears to be completely different (RCA 6U8A). Although this appears to be an obvious mistake, the 6U8A came in the same exact red RCA box as the other three and has the same "high gain, balanced, and noise and microphonics" sticker as the other (i.e., supposedly matched and balanced with the other three???). I'm assuming the 6U8A tube is NOT supposed to be used as a match to the others, correct? If this is the case, I'm wondering if this is typical of orders placed with TubeDepot.com (i.e., lots of mistakes/quality issues)? If any of you have suggestions for more reputable online tube retailers, I would appreciate recommendations.


----------



## Wes S (Feb 9, 2021)

schneiderdn1974 said:


> Question for those of you who know tubes: For rolling into my Valhalla 2, I recently ordered four "RCA Clear Top 6CG7" tubes from tubedepot.com and received three tubes that I believe are correct, and a forth that appears to be completely different (RCA 6U8A). Although this appears to be an obvious mistake, the 6U8A came in the same exact red RCA box as the other three and has the same "high gain, balanced, and noise and microphonics" sticker as the other (i.e., supposedly matched and balanced with the other three???). I'm assuming the 6U8A tube is NOT supposed to be used as a match to the others, correct? If this is the case, I'm wondering if this is typical of orders placed with TubeDepot.com (i.e., lots of mistakes/quality issues)? If any of you have suggestions for more reputable online tube retailers, I would appreciate recommendations.


Wow and Bummer! I would return all that, and move on to any other tube dealer than that one.  I only see 2 clear tops, and would be pissed if I received this order.  A couple good ones are Tubemonger, and Tube World Express.


----------



## schneiderdn1974

Wes S said:


> Wow and Bummer! I would return all that, and move on to any other tube dealer than that one.  I only see 2 clear tops, and would be pissed if I received this order.  A couple good ones are Tubemonger, and Tube World Express.


Thanks for the reply and recommendations Wes S. I was wondering about the third RCA tube with the black top. It appears to have the exact same build and markings of the other two clear tops (i.e., all three are 6CG7 and were manufactured in Brazil), but I don't know enough about tubes to say if the black top is in fact different than the clear tops. That said, I emailed TubeDepot about the order and sent them the photos I took. The only reply I've received so far is a "resend" confirmation, . . . it appears they're either sending me a new set of tubes, want me to send the initial order back to them, or both (I'm not exactly sure yet). Will post a follow up once this is resolved.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

From my _*very*_ limited tube knowledge, I'd want to say that the clear tops were actually missing a key manufacturing step - they don't have the silver getter that the other large tube has. Unless they have a silver spot on the back sides, I'd be suspect of them having a very long life without the getter.


----------



## JohnnyOps

There are some beautiful clear tops with long potential life (eg RCA organ clear top 12AU7As), so it’s not an error necessarily. But it is a different tube.


----------



## Ripper2860

GumbyDammit223 said:


> From my _*very*_ limited tube knowledge, I'd want to say that the clear tops were actually missing a key manufacturing step - they don't have the silver getter that the other large tube has. Unless they have a silver spot on the back sides, I'd be suspect of them having a very long life without the getter.



Clear tops are actually a side getter with side flashing.  No flashing on top or bottom -- just one side.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

Ripper2860 said:


> Clear tops are actually a side getter with side flashing.  No flashing on top or bottom -- just one side.


I figured, but couldn't see from the orientation in the picture.


----------



## schneiderdn1974

Ripper2860 said:


> Clear tops are actually a side getter with side flashing.  No flashing on top or bottom -- just one side.



Thanks Ripper2860. I'm assuming the "flashing" is the reflective metal coating on the top of most tubes, correct? If yes, do you have any idea if the second tube in the picture (i.e., the one on the right with the reflective flashing on top) is similar/related to the Clear Top shown on the left? Comparing it closely to the Clear Top, it appears to have the exact same build and internal components, except for the location of the flashing (top vs side). Just wondering if this was a later production or maybe a slightly different design of the same RCA 6CG7 tube. (???)


----------



## Ripper2860

That is correct.  The chrome-like deposit is the getter flashing and is used to absorb residual gasses as part of the MFG process.   The metal O, D, or rectangular metal 'stand' is the getter holder which holds the material before it is FLASHED or vaporized onto the tube glass. 

As far as the top getter and side getter/clear top being the same?  I'm not the man to answer that.  Assuming seemingly identical internal structure with only the getter holder and flashing location being different, I do agree that is most likely just a change in design as a result of differing MFG years.  I do not know enough about 6CG7s and not really sure where to locate and decipher the date codes on that family of tubes.  While I tend to agree that they are the same, perhaps someone else with more knowledge of that family of tubes can give a definitive answer.


----------



## schneiderdn1974

Ripper2860 said:


> That is correct.  The chrome-like deposit is the getter flashing and is used to absorb residual gasses as part of the MFG process.   The metal O, D, or rectangular metal 'stand' is the getter holder which holds the material before it is FLASHED or vaporized onto the tube glass.
> 
> As far as the top getter and side getter/clear top being the same?  I'm not the man to answer that.  Assuming seemingly identical internal structure with only the getter holder and flashing location being different, I do agree that is most likely just a change in design as a result of differing MFG years.  I do not know enough about 6CG7s and not really sure where to locate and decipher the date codes on that family of tubes.  While I tend to agree that they are the same, perhaps someone else with more knowledge of that family of tubes can give a definitive answer.


Thanks again for taking the time to respond and explain Ripper. Always fun to learn more about the little glass objects that I have no problem forking over lots of $$$ to try out. I also find it really interesting/suspicious that modern day companies have trouble manufacturing tubes that sound as good as tubes made 40+ years ago. That said, if I could just figure out how to vaporize stuff onto the inside of a glass tube, I could start my own business, . . . .


----------



## volly

Yo lads....I've finally arrived!


She's been on my wish list for a long time! Got it for a decent price and in excellent condition!

I got some tubes coming thanks to the bois here in this thread! I think the seller hardly put any hours on the stock tubes, they sounded harsh and raw! I've swapped in some siemens/telefunken 7dj8's just for now and it sounds much more juicier throughout the whole range!

- 6N6P FOTON (2)
- 6N23P REFLECTOR (2)

Bifrost synergizes well with the Valhalla 2, currently listening with the HD560s! I'll be rotating more headphones through the Valhalla 2, I'm keen to hear the Elear's through this amp! 

Different presentation than my Darkvoice but definitely has that tube/valve sound which is intoxicating with the right pair of headphones/speakers! I haven't used my Vali 2 in ages but this just brings back those fun days but with more seriousness and matured listening!

Be back later!


----------



## schneiderdn1974

schneiderdn1974 said:


> Question for those of you who know tubes: For rolling into my Valhalla 2, I recently ordered four "RCA Clear Top 6CG7" tubes from tubedepot.com and received three tubes that I believe are correct, and a forth that appears to be completely different (RCA 6U8A). Although this appears to be an obvious mistake, the 6U8A came in the same exact red RCA box as the other three and has the same "high gain, balanced, and noise and microphonics" sticker as the other (i.e., supposedly matched and balanced with the other three???). I'm assuming the 6U8A tube is NOT supposed to be used as a match to the others, correct? If this is the case, I'm wondering if this is typical of orders placed with TubeDepot.com (i.e., lots of mistakes/quality issues)? If any of you have suggestions for more reputable online tube retailers, I would appreciate recommendations.


Just following up on the status of on my recent tube order with TubeDepot.com (details in previous post above). As mentioned, I emailed the sales team at TubeDepot.com and included my photos showing the mismatched RCA 6U8A tube. They responded with the following: "That is very strange. Attached is a return label if you would kindly send that one back to us. I'll find you a match and get it out today." Three days later, I received another (single) RCA 6CG7 Clear Top tube with a "90 gm triode" rating to match the other three RCA tubes they sent. I'll be sending the 6U8A tube back to them using their return label, and am glad to see they didn't charge me for the replacement tube and/or to ship the 6U8A back to them. That said, since tubes are main/primary product TubeDepot.com sells, I'm a little disappointed they didn't check each tube before packaging and shipping, especially since these tubes aren't exactly cheap.


----------



## Ripper2860

Glad you got it sorted out satisfactorily.  Every company will make a mistake now and then -- it's how they handle those mistakes that matters.  It seems they made it right and handled this matter quite well.


----------



## volly

This tube is 'crack' mate....should be illegal! 

The Valhalla 2 is definitely broken-in now...and it's a FK'N Kaiju...it's destroying villages and running a muck!

I have many amp's but this one is just bonkers! Paired with the Bifrost and just some 7dj8's and it's purring like a Bengal bloody tiger!

The 560s with Bifrost/Valhalla 2 is sublime! 

Ridiculous!


----------



## schneiderdn1974

volly said:


> This tube is 'crack' mate....should be illegal!
> 
> The Valhalla 2 is definitely broken-in now...and it's a FK'N Kaiju...it's destroying villages and running a muck!
> 
> ...


"FK'N Kaiju...it's destroying villages an running a muck!" . . . LOL!!! . . . I need some of whatever you're currently having!!!!


----------



## volly

schneiderdn1974 said:


> "FK'N Kaiju...it's destroying villages an running a muck!" . . . LOL!!! . . . I need some of whatever you're currently having!!!!


Sorry....was my first coffee of the day...meant to say the Vahalla 2 sounded really good this morning!


----------



## joseG86

Just installed a couple of RCA's 6CG7 replaced from the stock 6N1P

So far SQ improved in general and I lost some bass but overall is amazing both Arya and Clear


----------



## jpearson

*Guys: PLEASE HELP! *I'm just getting to grips with tube rolling and I'd like to know if in your experience there are significant variances in sound based on the year of manufacture...

My preference for sound signature is warm/thick bass and mids with rolled-off treble (I'm very sensitive to peaks in the upper-midrange/lower-treble, which can be subjectively heard as detail/clarity but to me often just sounds abrasive). After a fair bit of research and reading around posts here I purchased a matched pair of WE-396A due to common reports of warmth (cost more than half the cost of the V2!) - these are they:






However, here's the crazy thing - *they don't sound very warm to me!? *For example, the high end on my HD 650s (an already very laid-back headphone, as you know) is unaccountably slightly on the hot side compared with the stock tubes, where it's definitely relaxing by comparison, though a bit grainy. Now that I can interpret the date codes on my purchase I realise *they're from the 80s - whereas most of the reviews of the WE-396A I've read on here are for 50s sets*. Do I need to try and sell these and buy a 1950s set, or is there unlikely to be much in it and I just need to find a warmer tube that's more suited to my L-shaped signature preference?

I can't afford to make many more mistakes in this quest - because I live in the UK, new taxes now mean that buying from the US is prohibitively expensive...

Thanks in advance for your insight!


----------



## Ripper2860 (Feb 22, 2021)

Would never have described the WE396A as a warm/tubey sounding tube -- even the sought after late 1940's / early 1950's mfg dates.  They do have a very nice neutral-ish sound and a very wide soundstage, IMHO.  I like them, but they're not what you seem to be looking for.

Checkout Mullard CV-4003 tubes.  Mullard is known for their warmer, more tubey presentation with extremely nice mids.  You should be able to score a pair in the UK.  I think they are what you desire in a sound profile.


----------



## jpearson

Thanks @Ripper2860 - that's really helpful!


----------



## Ripper2860

BTW -- I have Mullard CV-4003s and they sound very nice w/ VH2.


----------



## jpearson

Ripper2860 said:


> Would never have described the WE396A as a warm/tubey sounding tube -- even the sought after late 1940's / early 1950's mfg dates.  They do have a very nice neutral-ish sound and a very wide soundstage, IMHO.  I like them, but they're not what you seem to be looking for.
> 
> Checkout Mullard CV-4003 tubes.  Mullard is known for their warmer, more tubey presentation with extremely nice mids.  You should be able to score a pair in the UK.  I think they are what you desire in a sound profile.


OK, so matched Mullard CV-4003 are around twice the price of WE-396A in the UK (£230/$320)... Is the Brimar CV-4003 in any way similar sound profile (less than half the price)? Or is the class of tube less significant than the brand in this case?


----------



## Ripper2860

Wow.  The price has really gone up on the Mullard CV-4003.  They are considered warm and layered / end-game tubes by some and are a bit rare, but holy-moley!!    

Brimar are typically less tubey sounding and a bit brighter tube than the Mullard.  Different MFGs can sound dramatically different, even in tubes of the same class.  Maybe someone else can chime-in on less expensive alternatives as I'd hate for you to spend that kind of money and have them not meet your expectation.

(Have you considered a Schiit Loki EQ to tailor the sound more to your liking??)


----------



## schneiderdn1974

jpearson said:


> My preference for sound signature is warm/thick bass and mids with rolled-off treble (I'm very sensitive to peaks in the upper-midrange/lower-treble, which can be subjectively heard as detail/clarity but to me often just sounds abrasive).


I'd recommend reading some reviews of the JJ E88CC/6922 Gold Pins (~35 USD/each): https://www.thetubestore.com/jj-e88cc-6922-gold?quantity=1&additional_options=3. I recently purchased a pair for my Valhalla 2 and right of the box they were a very warm/thick sounding tube with lots of bass and a rolled-off treble. I'm sure other Head-Fi members have commented on the JJ E88CCs, so it may be worth a search. Here is an online review that may be helpful: https://wallofsound.ca/audioreviews/vacuum-tube-shootout-6dj8-types-part-2/


----------



## jpearson

Thanks @schneiderdn1974! I actually ordered some of these the other day after some more reading of this thread - a matched pair is £40/$56 from UK dealer. I'll let you know how I get on!


----------



## regaet

volly said:


> This tube is 'crack' mate....should be illegal!
> 
> The Valhalla 2 is definitely broken-in now...and it's a FK'N Kaiju...it's destroying villages and running a muck!
> 
> ...


Have you tried the Elears yet?


----------



## volly

regaet said:


> Have you tried the Elears yet?


I've switched out the Bifrost and paired the Val2 up to a Theta Cobalt 307....The Elear with this setup just sounds ALL-Musical! no harshness....just pure music! The sometimes-steely treble and upper mids the Alu-M-Dome the Focals are infamous for are gone and just sounds like a Super-HD650! Super-comfy, music listening session right now! Usually I'd be running the Elears off a Modius/JotGen1 and that sound exact, warm and detailed but mostly transparent enough to hear all the detail in the track but with the Val2, I'm just more engrossed in the music and the Val2 does micro-details for days so nothing is lost or glossed over either! The mid's are far more relatable on the Val2 as well, the Elears mid's are highly accomplished but inject some tube/valve/r2r flavor and they just sing!

This far in to this crazy hobby, I could easily retire to just tube amps.....Valhalla 2 is a keeper, heck I've even got the Darkvoice running as well! I could easily sell my solid-state stuff off and just keep the tube amps and I'd probably be perfectly happy!

Still waiting on my tubes to arrive from Mother-Russia but I'm still enjoying the schiit out of the 7dj8's to be honest!


----------



## regaet (Feb 28, 2021)

Bifrost 2 delivered yesterday + Valhalla with Brimar 4033s + Elears =


----------



## volly

regaet said:


> Bifrost 2 delivered yesterday + Valhalla with Brimar 4003s + Elears =


Let's GO!!!!   

Brimar 4003?? offfttt....let us know how you go...you got adapters for the Brimar's (12au7?) yeah?


----------



## regaet

regaet said:


> Bifrost 2 delivered yesterday + Valhalla with Brimar 4003s + Elears =





volly said:


> Let's GO!!!!
> 
> Brimar 4003?? offfttt....let us know how you go...you got adapters for the Brimar's (12au7?) yeah?


Meant 4033 (12at7) Read pages 96-98 of this thread. The Elears sound wonderful with this combination.


----------



## Ripper2860

BF2 + VH2 + Brimar CV4033 = Greatness!!  Enjoy!!


----------



## regaet

Ripper2860 said:


> BF2 + VH2 + Brimar CV4033 = Greatness!!  Enjoy!!


I am!! Thanks for all your input!


----------



## jpearson

Ripper2860 said:


> Wow.  The price has really gone up on the Mullard CV-4003.  They are considered warm and layered / end-game tubes by some and are a bit rare, but holy-moley!!
> 
> Brimar are typically less tubey sounding and a bit brighter tube than the Mullard.  Different MFGs can sound dramatically different, even in tubes of the same class.  Maybe someone else can chime-in on less expensive alternatives as I'd hate for you to spend that kind of money and have them not meet your expectation.
> 
> (Have you considered a Schiit Loki EQ to tailor the sound more to your liking??)


Still on my quest for a warm tube for the VH2 that tames upper-mids/lower-treble... Just reading through the forum - does anyone have experience of where the Amperex Orange Globes sit on warmth stakes? @Ripper2860?


----------



## Wes S (Mar 3, 2021)

jpearson said:


> Still on my quest for a warm tube for the VH2 that tames upper-mids/lower-treble... Just reading through the forum - does anyone have experience of where the Amperex Orange Globes sit on warmth stakes? @Ripper2860?


There are several different versions of the Orange Globe Amperex, and they don't all sound the same.  However, I don't think any of the versions are what you are looking for.

Look for some Mullard E88CC. Here is a pair.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Mullard-...-/393170487186?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292

The warmest tube I have encountered so far.  There is nothing offensive whatsoever with the sound sig of the E88CC/CV2492 Mullard with the Grey Shield.  I owned a pair, and the mids were killer, the bass is more midbass focused and the highs are as smooth as can be.

When looking for Mullards you want to get the oldest version with Grey plates, like the ones in the link above.  The latter years Mullard with the silver shield are not any good at all, and don't have the warm sound sig of the early version.


----------



## jpearson

Wes S said:


> There are several different versions of the Orange Globe Amperex, and they don't all sound the same.  However, I don't think any of the versions are what you are looking for.
> 
> Look for some Mullard E88CC. Here is a pair.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Mullard-...-/393170487186?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292
> ...


Thanks @Wes S! Are these the same: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-ecc88...-/303863967228?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292

They don't have gold pins but seem to be the same era, and grey plates... I need to be sure I'm buying the right one but I want to save on cost anywhere I can!

So these are also warmer than the Mullard CV4003 in your experience? And your set of WE396A? 

Also, side note, with respect to the WE396A I have a set from the 80s I now understand - much difference with earlier years of manufacture? 

Cheers!


----------



## Wes S (Mar 4, 2021)

jpearson said:


> Thanks @Wes S! Are these the same: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-ecc88...-/303863967228?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292
> 
> They don't have gold pins but seem to be the same era, and grey plates... I need to be sure I'm buying the right one but I want to save on cost anywhere I can!
> 
> ...


Those look to be silver shield, which also have Grey plates, also they are ECC88 and I have not heard that version, but they are not the version I am talking about.  I did a search before I made my last post, and the pair I linked is the cheapest pair I could find at the moment.

Important note - they all have grey plates, it is the shield I am talking about.  ECC88 generally have a variation in sound from the E88CC, and in my experience the ECC88 are usually a bit warmer.  I would keep an eye out for the Grey shield ECC88 Mullard as well.  E88CC/6922 Mullard tubes are a little harder to come by, but with patience they can be found.

Also, another identifier for the good one's is they have a small ring getter, not a disk getter (latter years crappy version).

The Mullard I am referring to is definitely warmer than the CV4003 and WE396A.


----------



## Wes S

@jpearson  Another suggestion to tame the upper mids and lower treble on the V2, is to change out the power cable.  I have done this, and it was as noticeable of a change, as a good tube roll.  The power cord I am using is this one below, and is very affordable.  

https://www.pangeaaudio.com/Pangea-Audio-AC-14SE-MKII-Power-Cable

With this power cord, the upper mids glare is gone, the bass kicks up a notch and gets tighter, the mids become more organic, the highs are smooth yet still extended, and the background got blacker.  What's not to like?  

Just throwing this out there, as it is much easier to find the power cable, and return it if you don't like it.  They do sell them on Amazon.  Power cables is the first thing I change out, when I get a new amp.


----------



## jpearson (Mar 4, 2021)

Wes S said:


> Those look to be silver shield, which also have Grey plates, also they are ECC88 and I have not heard that version, but they are not the version I am talking about.  I did a search before I made my last post, and the pair I linked is the cheapest pair I could find at the moment.
> 
> Important note - they all have grey plates, it is the shield I am talking about.  ECC88 generally have a variation in sound from the E88CC, and in my experience the ECC88 are usually a bit warmer.  I would keep an eye out for the Grey shield ECC88 Mullard as well.  E88CC/6922 Mullard tubes are a little harder to come by, but with patience they can be found.
> 
> ...


Thanks @Wes S - that's great guidance. Do you know my brain hadn't seen the ECC88 / E88CC distinction at all!

The power cable is definitely something I'm going to look into tonight, cheers


----------



## jpearson

Wes S said:


> @jpearson  Another suggestion to tame the upper mids and lower treble on the V2, is to change out the power cable.  I have done this, and it was as noticeable of a change, as a good tube roll.  The power cord I am using is this one below, and is very affordable.
> 
> https://www.pangeaaudio.com/Pangea-Audio-AC-14SE-MKII-Power-Cable
> 
> ...


So, I need a UK plug socket version of this but Pangea don't seem to do it... What qualities am I looking for in a power cable if I'm going to try and source UK equivalent?


----------



## jpearson

jpearson said:


> So, I need a UK plug socket version of this but Pangea don't seem to do it... What qualities am I looking for in a power cable if I'm going to try and source UK equivalent?


@Wes S - does this look like it will do the trick? https://www.audioquest.com/cables/ac-power-cables/nrg-series/nrg-y3


----------



## volly

Welp....new tubes arrived yesterday from Mother Russia....just burning them in, so far - so good! No abnormal behaviors from the tubes themselves, so that is a good sign!

Doesn't sound strained or raw, harsh or edgy....really great start here!

fyi,

- 6N6P FOTON (2)
- 6N23P REFLECTOR (2)

Both sets dated from the 1960's. 

Both sets cost me just over 60 Aussie dollars, so it will be cheap to replace, I'm happy!


----------



## jonathan c

volly said:


> Welp....new tubes arrived yesterday from Mother Russia....just burning them in, so far - so good! No abnormal behaviors from the tubes themselves, so that is a good sign!
> 
> Doesn't sound strained or raw, harsh or edgy....really great start here!
> 
> ...


The 6N23P (and 6N23P-EV) are great tubes: inexpensive, linear frequency response, high clarity, convincing rendition of ambience. I use them in my tube “roll” for the Liquid Platinum. They make me a happy (c)amper 😜.


----------



## G0rt

Today, warming up some new, mid 60's,  NOS Sylvania 6BQ7A. They were apparently slated for FAA service in TX, back in the day.

I've used Brimar, RCA and Sylvania 6BQ7A, and find them all very similar. I've got Raytheon incoming, and will eventually try TungSol and Westinghouse, and whatever.

Just a good, clean, well balanced bottle, plentiful and cheap, and consistent. Works for all Schiit Noval needs.

ATM, maybe an odd use case, since I'm driving 32 ohm Grados from Valhalla2, not really considered optimal for an OTL, even a WCF. But it works. Really well. Grados are easy.


----------



## regaet

jpearson said:


> @Wes S - does this look like it will do the trick? https://www.audioquest.com/cables/ac-power-cables/nrg-series/nrg-y3


https://www.pangeaaudio.com/Pangea-Audio-AC-14SE-MKII-Schuko-Power-Cable


----------



## jpearson

regaet said:


> https://www.pangeaaudio.com/Pangea-Audio-AC-14SE-MKII-Schuko-Power-Cable







There's no UK plug option unfortunately ☹️

I've recieved the Audioquest cable from Amazon now and there is a definite improvement but not significant enough to notice objective impact on upper-mid/treble issues. I just need to decide if the percieved slight refinement of the sound and the bass justifies the cost enough for me to keep it... 😉 It's not on the level of tube rolling to my ears


----------



## regaet

G0rt said:


> Today, warming up some new, mid 60's,  NOS Sylvania 6BQ7A. They were apparently slated for FAA service in TX, back in the day.
> 
> I've used Brimar, RCA and Sylvania 6BQ7A, and find them all very similar. I've got Raytheon incoming, and will eventually try TungSol and Westinghouse, and whatever.
> 
> ...


I found that 6bq7, 6bz7 and 6bk7 tubes from the early 1950s  had the best sound for me.


----------



## G0rt

regaet said:


> I found that 6bq7, 6bz7 and 6bk7 tubes from the early 1950s  had the best sound for me.


The best I've heard were 50's Brimar black bottle CV1988's, but those cost more than the amp itself, with adapters and all, so a bit silly.

ATM, Raytheon 6BQ7A driving a Romanian HD650, and it's very good. The Raytheon were funky bad out of the box, but settled after a few hours. 

60's Westinghouse 6BZ7 are also good, and don't seem to change much with burn-in.

Now have GE 6BZ7 incoming, so we'll see. I liked GE JAN 5670W for their extra sparkle, but I'd like to get away from adapters if I can.


----------



## regaet (Mar 29, 2021)

I've tried a few. The best I found was a pair of 1953 GE 6BK7. After Wes did his tube rolling marathon I bought a pair of the Brimar 4033 and haven't looked back. I did try the GEs again and tonally they were close but the presentation of the Brimars is....... So I'm done and smiling daily as I listen.


----------



## G0rt

Does anyone happen to know offhand who actually made the 6BZ7 and 6BQ7A rebranded by ITT back in the day?

The ones I have are just marked Japan, so curious whether Hitachi, Matsushita, Fujitsu or some other.

Burning in a pair in VH2 now, and they do sound good.


----------



## jonathan c

G0rt said:


> Does anyone happen to know offhand who actually made the 6BZ7 and 6BQ7A rebranded by ITT back in the day?
> 
> The ones I have are just marked Japan, so curious whether Hitachi, Matsushita, Fujitsu or some other.
> 
> Burning in a pair in VH2 now, and they do sound good.


Mazda?


----------



## Ripper2860

Pics of the tubes and internal structure may give clues and assist others in helping identify the mfg.


----------



## G0rt

Ripper2860 said:


> Pics of the tubes and internal structure may give clues and assist others in helping identify the mfg.


The ITT 6BQ7A arrive today. I'll try to take closeups tomorrow. I may have to dig out a real camera.

I also have a Hitachi that came in a Raytheon box, so I'll shoot that, too. Cheers.


----------



## G0rt

Ripper2860 said:


> Pics of the tubes and internal structure may give clues and assist others in helping identify the mfg.


ITT 6BQ7A


----------



## G0rt

Ripper2860 said:


> Pics of the tubes and internal structure may give clues and assist others in helping identify the mfg.


ITT 6BZ7


----------



## G0rt

Ripper2860 said:


> Pics of the tubes and internal structure may give clues and assist others in helping identify the mfg.


Hitachi 6BQ7A


----------



## Wes S (Apr 14, 2021)

jpearson said:


> @Wes S - does this look like it will do the trick? https://www.audioquest.com/cables/ac-power-cables/nrg-series/nrg-y3


I have several Audioquest Power cables (Z2&Z3), and love them, but have not heard the y3.  The Audioquest power cables are more detailed in the upper mids and treble compared to the Pangea I have tried.


----------



## Lvivske (Jun 10, 2021)

Hey so I have a Valhalla 1.0 and never changed tubes before but its probably time in terms of lifespan. I've been reading this thread and decided on the JJ E88CC / 6922 Gold (for the apparently warmer sound, my stock tubes are shrill), but for the 6N6P output tubes....what should I get? What matters?

Also, how do I even change these, just pull them out? I feel like I cant get a grip on the short tubes at all. (Ive only changed tubes in guitar amps before)


----------



## tricolor

Lvivske said:


> Hey so I have a Valhalla 1.0 and never changed tubes before but its probably time in terms of lifespan. I've been reading this thread and decided on the JJ E88CC / 6922 Gold (for the apparently warmer sound, my stock tubes are shrill), but for the 6N6P output tubes....what should I get? What matters?
> 
> Also, how do I even change these, just pull them out? I feel like I cant get a grip on the short tubes at all. (Ive only changed tubes in guitar amps before)


Hey! I might be wrong... But I think the version 1.0 won't allow us to change tubes...


----------



## Lvivske (Jun 10, 2021)

tricolor said:


> Hey! I might be wrong... But I think the version 1.0 won't allow us to change tubes...


oh crap, now im confused because i thought i read it the other way around last night. I mean, this thread started in 2012 before the Valhalla 2 came out and there were talks of changing tubes by users in the thread

this is from schiit.com's FAQ:



> *Is Valhalla rollable?*
> Yes! The standard 6N1P input tubes can be subbed out for any 6DJ8/6922/ECC88/ECC85/6BZ7 types, including NOS, cryo-treated, voodoo-blessed, hand-assembled by elves, etc.



what do i do if/when my tubes finally die?


----------



## jonathan c

Lvivske said:


> oh crap, now im confused because i thought i read it the other way around last night. I mean, this thread started in 2012 before the Valhalla 2 came out and there were talks of changing tubes by users in the thread
> 
> this is from schiit.com's FAQ:
> 
> ...


The 6N1P can be “rolled” into 6DJ8, 6922, 7308 (premium 6922)...; the 6N6P has no direct substitute but itself. Try ‘vivatubes.com’ for the 6N6P. I have bought from ‘vivatubes’ a number of times - not for 6N6P - fine by me.


----------



## jonathan c

Lvivske said:


> Hey so I have a Valhalla 1.0 and never changed tubes before but its probably time in terms of lifespan. I've been reading this thread and decided on the JJ E88CC / 6922 Gold (for the apparently warmer sound, my stock tubes are shrill), but for the 6N6P output tubes....what should I get? What matters?
> 
> Also, how do I even change these, just pull them out? I feel like I cant get a grip on the short tubes at all. (Ive only changed tubes in guitar amps before)


Try two-sided tape on the top of the 6N6P...


----------



## Lvivske

jonathan c said:


> The 6N1P can be “rolled” into 6DJ8, 6922, 7308 (premium 6922)...; the 6N6P has no direct substitute but itself. Try ‘vivatubes.com’ for the 6N6P. I have bought from ‘vivatubes’ a number of times - not for 6N6P - fine by me.



so just buy any 6N6P? anything i should know or just cheapest matched pair i can find?


----------



## jonathan c

Lvivske said:


> so just buy any 6N6P? anything i should know or just cheapest matched pair i can find?


Probably a matched pair. 6N6P tubes are a Soviet / Russian design with a reputation for good sound and durability. If you buy via EBay, delivery could take a while especially if the seller is in Russia, Serbia etc.


----------



## Lvivske (Jun 10, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> Probably a matched pair. 6N6P tubes are a Soviet / Russian design with a reputation for good sound and durability. If you buy via EBay, delivery could take a while especially if the seller is in Russia, Serbia etc.



so grab these boys?

True NOS Matched Pair Soviet Russia Gold Grid 6N6P 6H6P ECC99 Vacuum Tubes - VIVA TUBES

edit: these seem like a really good deal with free shipping, these ok?

6N6P 6N6 Matched Pair Soviet Gold Grid Tubes / Valves USSR | Etsy


----------



## Lvivske

The more I'm reading, I think Tricolor may have been right that the Valhalla 1 can't use the tubes Schiit states on their FAQ? So the JJ E88CC is a no-go, right? (glad I havent checked out my cart yet)

Advice on interchangability of tubes : diytubes (reddit.com)

guy says he contacted Schiit and they told him "As long as the voltages line up and the tubes are the equivalent to what the originals were, you should be able to use them"

really confusing they state one thing on the FAQ and another in the manual, and on the site not specify model numbers


----------



## Guidostrunk

Lvivske said:


> so just buy any 6N6P? anything i should know or just cheapest matched pair i can find?


Check out ebay for the Foton 6n6p. You'll thank me later lol.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Lvivske said:


> The more I'm reading, I think Tricolor may have been right that the Valhalla 1 can't use the tubes Schiit states on their FAQ? So the JJ E88CC is a no-go, right? (glad I havent checked out my cart yet)
> 
> Advice on interchangability of tubes : diytubes (reddit.com)
> 
> ...


I had a Valhalla 1. You can roll tubes in it. 6922 variants are fine


----------



## Guidostrunk

6922 and e88cc are the same. 6922= American identifier 
E88cc= Europe identifier


----------



## Lvivske

Guidostrunk said:


> Check out ebay for the Foton 6n6p. You'll thank me later lol.



lol please tell me why, I was about to check out on this etsy shop with the NEVZ ones for $25


Guidostrunk said:


> I had a Valhalla 1. You can roll tubes in it. 6922 variants are fine



so JJs for input and you're recommending Foton 6N6P for output, I'll have a good time?


----------



## Lvivske

whats up with these prices variances, huge leap between $20 to $200 a pair of what looks like the same thing to my virgin eyes

screenshot


----------



## Guidostrunk

Lvivske said:


> lol please tell me why, I was about to check out on this etsy shop with the NEVZ ones for $25
> 
> 
> so JJs for input and you're recommending Foton 6N6P for output, I'll have a good time?


The Foton 6n6p are the best sounding of the bunch. I have no experience with the JJ tubes so can't comment on how much fun you'll have with them. I can recommend you these. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brimar-KB-...-/384193600024?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286

I can guarantee you that you'll have fun with these tubes lol


----------



## Guidostrunk

Lvivske said:


> whats up with these prices variances, huge leap between $20 to $200 a pair of what looks like the same thing to my virgin eyes
> 
> screenshot


Yeah. Get the cheap ones. The other sellers are ripping people off


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> The Foton 6n6p are the best sounding of the bunch. I have no experience with the JJ tubes so can't comment on how much fun you'll have with them. I can recommend you these.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brimar-KB-...-/384193600024?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286
> 
> I can guarantee you that you'll have fun with these tubes lol


A great reference by @Guidostrunk. I have used these much in the Liquid Platinum...no adapter needed...very clear and engaging sound...no stridency.


----------



## Lvivske

alright on the home stretch...

one of the reasons I was eyeballing the JJ E88CCs was a user here wanted something _warmer_ and was mentioning them, described having the same issue with the stock Valhalla, that it was too hard on the high end (I didnt even use mine for years because i found it shrill af). The Brimars...same idea?

I also notice that ebay link is for 1 tube, shouldnt i be finding a matched pair?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Lvivske said:


> alright on the home stretch...
> 
> one of the reasons I was eyeballing the JJ E88CCs was a user here wanted something _warmer_ and was mentioning them, described having the same issue with the stock Valhalla, that it was too hard on the high end (I didnt even use mine for years because i found it shrill af). The Brimars...same idea?
> 
> I also notice that ebay link is for 1 tube, shouldnt i be finding a matched pair?


Order 2 and ask the seller for a matched pair. The Brimar is a warm but detailed tube with a fantastic 3d image and nice visceral bass and impact.


----------



## Lvivske

seems he only has the 3 in stock with different prices and ratings


----------



## Guidostrunk

Take number 2 and 3


----------



## Lvivske (Jun 10, 2021)

why did you have to pick the more expensive one ><

edit: fml the shipping is more than the tube


----------



## Guidostrunk

Better test results lol


----------



## TK16

Lvivske said:


> seems he only has the 3 in stock with different prices and ratings


I'd only buy tube 3, other 2 are way below 100%. Tube 3 tests good but you might not want to buy single tubes if you don't have a tester.


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Take number 2 and 3


I have a query on 2 & 3. On the readings for ‘Ia’ and for ‘Gm’ (where the numbers are formatted x.x/y.y) x.x is greater than y.y. On 1, x.x is less than y.y. Should this be?


----------



## exchez

jonathan c said:


> I have a query on 2 & 3. On the readings for ‘Ia’ and for ‘Gm’ (where the numbers are formatted x.x/y.y) x.x is greater than y.y. On 1, x.x is less than y.y. Should this be?


The way I read it is that x.x/y.y represents the measurements for triode 1/triode 2 for each tube. Either triode may test higher or lower than the other.


----------



## jonathan c

exchez said:


> The way I read it is that x.x/y.y represents the measurements for triode 1/triode 2 for each tube. Either triode may test higher or lower than the other.


Thanks 🙏


----------



## thefitz

I read this:

*Are Valhallas “rollable?”*
Earlier Valhallas (August 2010-April 2012) are not designed for tube rolling. All Valhallas shipped since May 2012 are rollable to accommodate E88CC, 6DJ8, 6922, 6N23P, etc on the input stage (that is, the shorter tubes.)

on the FAQ page of this: https://web.archive.org/web/20130830020951/http://schiit.com/products/valhalla

Any idea how we can tell when the Valhalla v1s were made?


----------



## Guidostrunk

thefitz said:


> I read this:
> 
> *Are Valhallas “rollable?”*
> Earlier Valhallas (August 2010-April 2012) are not designed for tube rolling. All Valhallas shipped since May 2012 are rollable to accommodate E88CC, 6DJ8, 6922, 6N23P, etc on the input stage (that is, the shorter tubes.)
> ...


Send an email to schiit with the serial number on the back.


----------



## Lvivske

thefitz said:


> I read this:
> 
> *Are Valhallas “rollable?”*
> Earlier Valhallas (August 2010-April 2012) are not designed for tube rolling. All Valhallas shipped since May 2012 are rollable to accommodate E88CC, 6DJ8, 6922, 6N23P, etc on the input stage (that is, the shorter tubes.)
> ...



I actually just shot them an email with my serial to find out, guess serials dont matter. I also asked if a 6922 could be used in the input:



> 1.) I honestly don't know the exact year unless you happen to have your order number handy, however that looks lie one of the earlier models.
> 
> 2.) It is not recommended to tube roll with the original Valhalla.
> All the Best,
> Tom E.


----------



## thefitz

Well, my 6N1P tubes I bought a couple of years ago have a '61 date code on 'em, so I'll ride those out - just curious!


----------



## Lvivske (Jun 10, 2021)

lol okay well mine's a 2010, had to go through my post history to find out

headfi > schiit's book keeping

but I guess I'll trust Guidostrunk on using the 6922 still...😨


----------



## Lvivske (Jun 11, 2021)

-delete-

edit: bought the JJ E88CCs and Photon 6N6Ps, and some socket savers for the hell of it, and crossing my fingers


----------



## Lvivske (Jun 29, 2021)

So figured it was time to update this thread now that all my ducks are in a row.

First, lets just dispel some notions put out by Schiit: *Early Valhalla's can tube roll no problem. I have a 2010 model and threw the E88CC's in the 6N1P slot...I survived*

I bought the JJ (gold pin) E88CC pair for a very reasonable price off TubesDepot, they were recommended for warmth a few dozen pages back and yeah, immediate, noticeable improvement. This is my first time changing tubes and my complaint with the V1 has always been its sterile, shrill sound, especially when paired with my HD800s (early ones, the shrillest). Going to the E88CCs gave me and immediate boost in lows, punch, and warmth. It was so noticeable I had to completely re-EQ my entire setup because it crossed the line into muddy. Day and night. With burn in and a few weeks of play, and fine tuning my Equalization (EQ is the hugest thing for me) I honestly feel like this was a move that put me into endgame territory. Seriously, I've tuned in this tone that's just sitting perfectly with me, like notes are their own sub-chords, like I'm getting an audio massage. I haven't played video games in weeks. This is _not_ the same amp & headphone combo I bought a decade ago that I put into storage for years.

Obviously, I already have plans on what to change next, but the new DAC, new earpads, new tubes, and Apple Music switching to Lossless/HiRes all in one month has been a sea change that's left me listening to music more than ever and I'll probably want to chase the dragon more than ever now. 

Next, the Photon *6N6Ps* came in today from an eBay seller, broken. Luckily I had some random foresight to buy 2 pairs, so was able to salvage a pair together. I did notice that 1 from the broken pair had a different sticker with alternate values on it, and one from the 'matched' pair was a different model based on the symbol & markings, so ended up pairing the visual twins together and crossed my fingers. (Side note, in sitting here I noticed that the 6N6Ps that Schiit gave me stock did not match either, different heights, logo, and internal parts - can you guess which are stock and which the Photon?)





(center and right are stock Schiit)

Initial impressions are that the Photons made things slightly less warm, brighter, but also more resolving and punchier. They also sounded cleaner with nothing playing, the ambient hum may have gone down a decibel or two. It might be what I needed to balance things, it might get better, it might need to mellow out, we'll see. It definitely needs to burn in still so I'm reserving judgement, but everything still sounds *great*, and that's where I'm at now.

edit: My software EQ that has minor tweaks to problematic frequencies crashed in the background at some point today before making those impressions, which entirely accounts for the brightness shift, so those opinions are void. Bass feels stronger now though, which accounts for the punch....I'll wait for them to fully settle before updating this because I'm totally thrown.

So yeah, rolled my V1 to the endzone and it feels great.

Here's some pics. Oh, and I got socket savers - looks better and helps with the internal heat







_(Special thanks to Guidostrunk for helping me on this)_


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 30, 2021)

~ The Schiit Valhalla II came today and I enthusiastically put it to work. I have been more than curious about how it would fare as an OTL h/p/a with lower impedance headphones: specifically the Focal Clear (original, 55 ohms) with Dekoni fenestrated sheepskin pads.
~ First the tube ‘ammo’: NEVZ 6N6Ps and Siemens 7308s. I wanted to stay within the 6DJ8/6922 category. Gain setting: low (output impedance = 3.5 ohms). This was feasible since the Clear sensitivity is 104 dB/V.
~ Assessment: _Fantastic! _The music had “thereness” in abundance with excellent dynamic range. Frequency response had no real aberrations. Vocals and ambience were rendered beautifully with real emotion and reverberation. Acoustic bass had depth, fullness and string feel to it. Percussion and transients had no smear - were lifelike. Soundstage was wide and cleanly delineated. The Valhalla II at $349 (ex shipping) certainly “punched well above its weight class”.
~ Obviously, the Valhalla II was not going to eclipse the Woo WA6 equipped with Brimar Footscray rectifier and driver tubes. But the Valhalla II was _very respectably close. _I am keeping it!…gameroom system…👍


----------



## regaet

Try the Tubemonger Brimar 4033 with adapters.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 1, 2021)

+1 to the above!!!  Why limit yourself?  

Not saying that they're better than Footscray, but if someone thinks they are better off sticking with 6922/6DJ8 'native' tubes on VH2...  well, they're missing out!!


----------



## Lvivske

regaet said:


> Try the Tubemonger Brimar 4033 with adapters.


why? what's the verdict?


----------



## regaet

Lvivske said:


> why? what's the verdict?


Read pages 96-98 of this thread


----------



## jonathan c (Jul 1, 2021)

regaet said:


> Try the Tubemonger Brimar 4033 with adapters.


I use the Brimar KB/FB CV4033 (Footscray 1956 / 1957) with adapters in Woo WA6 1st Gen. The Valhalla II is intended to be part of a second setup: the holy grail tubes are to be used in my study system.


----------



## Lvivske

Man, just when I felt incredibly satisfied with these JJ's...

Added it to my shopping list


----------



## jonathan c

Ripper2860 said:


> +1 to the above!!!  Why limit yourself?
> 
> Not saying that they're better than Footscray, but if someone thinks they are better off sticking with 6922/6DJ8 'native' tubes on VH2...  well, they're missing out!!


The Valhalla II is going in a second system…no need for holy grailing…


----------



## jonathan c

Lvivske said:


> Man, just when I felt incredibly satisfied with these JJ's...
> 
> Added it to my shopping list


What is “it”?


----------



## Lvivske

jonathan c said:


> What is “it”?


Tubemonger Brimar 4033 that was recommended


----------



## Lvivske

Okay so the new question is, if Tubemonger is sold out, where can I get a 12Axx Adapter for the Brimars?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Lvivske said:


> Okay so the new question is, if Tubemonger is sold out, where can I get a 12Axx Adapter for the Brimars?


From the actual supplier lol.
https://pulsetubestore.com/products...uction-base-9-pin-b9a-noval-not-made-in-china


----------



## Lvivske

Guidostrunk said:


> From the actual supplier lol.
> https://pulsetubestore.com/products/12axx-to-ecc88-adapter-plug-play-novib-©-1960s-nos-british-mcmurdo-phenolic-socket-on-top-plus-vibration-reduction-base-9-pin-b9a-noval-not-made-in-china


the link you sent me by _accident_, i was wondering why i already had this bookmarked 😂


----------



## Lvivske

Ripper2860 said:


> Brimar are typically less tubey sounding and a bit brighter tube than the Mullard.





Wes S said:


> The seperation of instruments detail and imaging within that stage is incredible, and the speed, impact and natural decay of the notes, really adds to the sense of realism. Man, I could go on and on about this tube, but what I just described is what stands out the most.



Read through dozens of pages now, but have a question about the Brimar CV-4033 to whoever has tried them and if the above applies - are the _4033_'s a bright tube? (or was that referencing a different model)

The JJ's are doing a great job right now but I'd still love to try something universally better. A lot of positive views in here about the 4033s, would I be sacrificing anything in my sound signature in exchange for the _holographic realness_?


----------



## regaet

In my experience, Mullards can have a wonderful midrange but lack in the highs. The Brimars are wonderful from top to bottom in my system. Wes did me a great favor rolling all of those holy grail tubes and taking the time to document it here. The Brimars are by far the best I've had in my system. I'm listening right now and smiling.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 2, 2021)

Lvivske said:


> Read through dozens of pages now, but have a question about the Brimar CV-4033 to whoever has tried them and if the above applies - are the _4033_'s a bright tube? (or was that referencing a different model)
> 
> The JJ's are doing a great job right now but I'd still love to try something universally better. A lot of positive views in here about the 4033s, would I be sacrificing anything in my sound signature in exchange for the _holographic realness_?


The Brimars are a bit brighter than Mullard but certainly not what I would consider a bright tube. Mullards are a bit more euphonic and warmer with richer mids. As stated above, they are known for their rich mids and have a top-end that is a bit rolled-off. The Brimars are a little less warm having more balanced sound top-to bottom but still on the warmer side of neutral.  IMHO, of course.

BTW - this is comparing Brimar CV4033 to Mullard CV4003.  My preference is the Brimars.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 2, 2021)

A side note:  The CV4033s are some very versatile tubes.  They rank above MANY of my 6SN7s (and I have more 6SN7s than any sane person should).  The CV4033 has also earned a prominent spot in my Lyr 3 tube rotation -- with an adapter, of course.


----------



## Lvivske (Jul 2, 2021)

Anyone here other than Robert try the Brimar CV4024's? Just doing some reading and saw the 4033's were the same tube just with loose leads originally for soldering. Rob preferred the 33s, just curious - it's about a $17 difference at the moment for a pair


----------



## Guidostrunk

Lvivske said:


> Anyone here other than Robert try the Brimar CV4024's? Just doing some reading and saw the 4033's were the same tube just with loose leads originally for soldering. Rob preferred the 33s, just curious - it's about a $17 difference at the moment


Not even close. The cv4024 is the bottom of the barrel Brimar 12at7. The cv4033 is a military industrial grade tube , hence the flying leads. Bypass the cv4024 and get these!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/12AT7-CV45...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0


----------



## Guidostrunk

The cv455 is the consumer version of the cv4033. It wasn't held to the standards of production of the cv4033 but it's identical in construction to the eye.


----------



## Lvivske

Guidostrunk said:


> *Not even close.* The cv4024 is the bottom of the barrel Brimar 12at7. The cv4033 is a military industrial grade tube , hence the flying leads. Bypass the cv4024 and get these!
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/12AT7-CV45...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0



Decisive take. Love it.

thanks


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Not even close. The cv4024 is the bottom of the barrel Brimar 12at7. The cv4033 is a military industrial grade tube , hence the flying leads. Bypass the cv4024 and get these!
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/12AT7-CV45...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0


Lvivske, _please follow Guidostrunk’s recommendation. _The Brimar CV455 with KB/FB markings (the Footscray plant) are used by a number of us who own Valhalla II, Mjolnir II, or both. These CV 455s give the listener 95-ish% of the sound quality of the all-time #1 12AT7 (the Brimar CV4033 KB/FB square getter: 1956) at 60% of the price. You will not regret Guidostrunk’s advice!


----------



## Lvivske

jonathan c said:


> Lvivske, _please follow Guidostrunk’s recommendation. _The Brimar CV455 with KB/FB markings (the Footscray plant) are used by a number of us who own Valhalla II, Mjolnir II, or both. These CV 455s give the listener 95-ish% of the sound quality of the all-time #1 12AT7 (the Brimar CV4033 KB/FB square getter: 1956) at 60% of the price. You will not regret Guidostrunk’s advice!


wait...CV455? I thought we were talking CV4033 here

also this brings up a seconary point since you mentioned 1956...does year matter? because Tubemonger only has the 70s lot in right now - Pulse has the '60 & '58 for a higher price; I know Wes mentioned grabbing all of them (the 4033s)


----------



## jonathan c

Lvivske said:


> wait...CV455? I thought we were talking CV4033 here
> 
> also this brings up a seconary point since you mentioned 1956...does year matter? because Tubemonger only has the 70s lot in right now - Pulse has the '60 & '58 for a higher price; I know Wes mentioned grabbing all of them (the 4033s)


The web link in Guidostrunk’s note (post #1,586) takes you to a listing for the Brimar CV455.


----------



## Lvivske (Jul 2, 2021)

_Ohhh_, ok so CV455 and CV4033 are synonymous (minus 4033 having higher standards) [it's hard to keep track]


----------



## jonathan c

Lvivske said:


> _Ohhh_, ok so CV455 and CV4033 are synonymous (minus 4033 having higher standards) [it's hard to keep track]
> 
> so it's still the year thing
> 
> Tubemonger has 1970 4033 for $90, Pulse has 1960 4033 for $120, and ebay.uk has 1956 (non matched) 455 for $120 (from the UK)


It gets a little more complicated. A given tube might have been made in a certain plant for a specific time before production shifted to a different plant. E.g., the Brimar CV4033 was made in the Footscray plant then in the Rochester plant. The years and tube markings associated with each plant will differ.


----------



## Lvivske

the path of least resistance it is!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Lvivske said:


> the path of least resistance it is!


The cv455 is the consumer/street version of the cv4033. I should have mentioned also that you will need adapters to use them. 
https://pulsetubestore.com/products...uction-base-9-pin-b9a-noval-not-made-in-china


----------



## KoshNaranek

@Ripper2860 have you tried 12Axx Psvane tubes in Valhalla?


----------



## Ripper2860

@KoshNaranek -- I have not, but I have been eyeing them for quite some time.  The only new production noval tubes I have is a pair of Gold Lion 6922 -- everything else is vintage/  NOS.


----------



## KoshNaranek

Ripper2860 said:


> @KoshNaranek -- I have not, but I have been eyeing them for quite some time.  The only new production noval tubes I have is a pair of Gold Lion 6922 -- everything else is vintage/  NOS.


I tried the Gold Lions and found something about their tone to be odd. I actually prefer new production JJ to them. 

After your talking up the Psvane 6sn7 replacements, I have been considering them. I don't have any adapters and I am a bit leery of jumping down that rabbit hole


----------



## Ripper2860

KoshNaranek said:


> I tried the Gold Lions and found something about their tone to be odd. I actually prefer new production JJ to them.


I agree.  The Gold Lions really didn't strike a chord with me.  

I do not want to contribute to the demise of yet another soul, but you must get adapters and try one or 2 pairs of 12A*7 family tubes recommended here.  One need not go  crazy buying massive quantities -- leverage the knowledge found here and use a quality vs quantity strategy.  A pair of the discussed CV4033s are SUBSTANTIALLY nicer than stock tubes and not terribly expensive and will get one very close to the point of diminishing returns, IMHO.  Whether it's your end-game tubes or the start of a very nasty habit depends on your level of self-control.  I suspect that is not an issue for you, however.


----------



## jonathan c

I have, since my last Valhalla II post, put in a pair of Brimar CV455 KB/FB (Footscray, d-getter, 1956) with adapters. _Outstanding results! _


----------



## jonathan c (Jul 3, 2021)

To continue from post #1,600:  the combination of the NEVZ 6N6Ps and the Brimar CV455 (KB/FB) is convincingly musical _in extremis._ The gestalt of the sound from Valhalla II is engaging, rewarding, makes time slip by. There is no real sense of anything missing or being ‘short-changed’. Only when I put in the _ne plus ultra _Brimar CV4033 KB/FB square-getter tubes is there more _refinement._ The sonic flavour is still the same. ($ 250-ish worth of holy grail tubes in a $349 h/p/a does not seem rational - but *fun *once in a while…). The CV455s are “next-to-holy-grail” caliber; they can roam the halls of Valhalla…the Siemens 7308s can rest a good while…


----------



## jonathan c

To continue from post #1,601:  The Valhalla II, even as an OTL h/p/a, drives the Audeze LCD-X (with a 20 ohm stated impedance) _superbly_. Absolutely *no* high-output to low-input impedance mismatch causing bass bloat or other frequency response aberrations!  The Valhalla II has, in fact, an output impedance of 3-1/2 ohms at the low gain setting. In all, a wonderful “little” amp!


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> To continue from post #1,601:  The Valhalla II, even as an OTL h/p/a, drives the Audeze LCD-X (with a 20 ohm stated impedance) _superbly_. Absolutely *no* high-output to low-input impedance mismatch causing bass bloat or other frequency response aberrations!  The Valhalla II has, in fact, an output impedance of 3-1/2 ohms at the low gain setting. In all, a wonderful “little” amp!


Have you tried your Clear with it yet? I'm really curious how the pairing is.


----------



## jonathan c (Jul 4, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Have you tried your Clear with it yet? I'm really curious how the pairing is.


~ The Valhalla II is absolutely A-ok with the Clear. There is no impedance mismatch driven frequency response aberration to be found. The quickness and clarity of the Valhalla II is displayed with authority via the Clear. Vice versa, that of the Clear is not impeded a bit by the Valhalla II.
~ To my ears, the V-II/Clear pairing is remarkably close to that of the MJ-II/Clear pairing. I actually feel that the ambience/reverberation/soundspace is slightly better with the V-II/Clear duo:  absence of solid-state output buffer + absence of output transformer? 🤷🏻…
~ As for transient response, attack and decay, when using the Footscrays, the V-II is right there with the mod MJ-II. Apparent via the Clear.
~ Interestingly, when comparing the V-II to the Woo WA3 (both OTL and both with the same Footscray tubes) through the Clear, the V-II has better bass definition, extends slightly deeper, and has sharper front-to-back delineation. Could one power tube (6N6P) per channel be more musically faithful than one power tube (6080 type) shared between channels? 🤷🏻 again…
~ In all, the Valhalla II is the little OTL that could (and _should?_) be in your system…


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 3, 2021)

I use VH2 with 35 ohm HFM Arya and it does extremely well.  13 ohm Aeon Flow Closed? Well not so much. After all, even VH2 has its limits.  😄

My 300 ohm HD6XX are my primary cans with VH2 and they truly hit the sweet  spot.  A tiny bit of EQ via Roon's PEQ and they are bliss.  Can't even imagine how nice ZMF HPs must sound w/ VH2.  😍

(Arya spends most of it's time in Incubus and AFC on Ragnarok.)


----------



## KoshNaranek

Ripper2860 said:


> I use VH2 with 35 ohm HFM Arya and it does extremely well.  13 ohm Aeon Flow Closed? Well not so much. After all, even VH2 has its limits.  😄
> 
> My 300 ohm HD6XX are my primary cans with VH2 and they truly hit the sweet  spot.  A tiny bit of EQ via Roon's PEQ and they are bliss.  Can't even imagine how nice ZMF HPs must sound w/ VH2.  😍
> 
> (Arya spends most of it's time in Incubus and AFC on Ragnarok.)


I liked the HD600 and HD800 better than HD6xx with Valhalla


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> ~ The Valhalla II is absolutely A-ok with the Clear. There is no impedance mismatch driven frequency response aberration to be found. The quickness and clarity of the Valhalla II is displayed with authority via the Clear. Vice versa, that of the Clear is not impeded a bit by the Valhalla II.
> ~ To my ears, the V-II/Clear pairing is remarkably close to that of the MJ-II/Clear pairing. I actually feel that the ambience/reverberation/soundspace is slightly better with the V-II/Clear duo:  absence of solid-state output buffer + absence of output transformer? 🤷🏻…
> ~ As for transient response, attack and decay, when using the Footscrays, the V-II is right there with the mod MJ-II. Apparent via the Clear.
> ~ Interestingly, when comparing the V-II to the Woo WA3 (both OTL and both with the same Footscray tubes) through the Clear, the V-II has better bass definition, extends slightly deeper, and has sharper front-to-back delineation. Could one power tube (6N6P) per channel be more musically faithful than one power tube (6080 type) shared between channels? 🤷🏻 again…
> ~ In all, the Valhalla II is the little OTL that could (and _should?_) be in your system…


I will definitely be investigating 😂


----------



## jonathan c (Jul 4, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> I will definitely be investigating 😂


I had given my initial thoughts on V-II with the Siemens 7308s (not shabby) as driver tubes. It was only fair/honest to put the V-II in the ‘fight cage’ with the same gloves (Footscray) as the contenders. The Footscrays obviously lift the V-II substantially. The V-II more than holds its own. 🏆  EDITED, thanks Ripper2860 !


----------



## Ripper2860

7308s as power tubes?  More details please.  😉


----------



## jonathan c

Ripper2860 said:


> 7308s as power tubes?  More details please.  😉


oops, thank you….edited!


----------



## MrGoat

I didnt know where else to post this:

Does any one have a little bit of play in their power switch and/or gain switch on their Valhalla 2. I noticed yesterday that it kind of wiggles side to side whether it is on or off. None of my other schiit products do this, their switches are very solid. 

I emailed schiit and they suggested I send it back for them to look at. Would I just be wasting my time? Is this normal? Thanks.


----------



## jonathan c

~ A highlight of this evening, after fireworks, has been listening to one of my A-list recordings: Chet Baker, My Favourite Songs (The Last Great Concert). This was through the Kennerton Gjallarhorn JM Edition driven by Valhalla II with the Brimar Footscrays CV4033 ◾️ getter: 1956. 
~ To surrender myself to the musings of Chet Baker with NDR big band / Radio Hannover Orchestra so willingly and so totally is my best testament to the Gjallarhorn, to the Footscrays, AND to the Valhalla II. Bravo !!


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> ~ A highlight of this evening, after fireworks, has been listening to one of my A-list recordings: Chet Baker, My Favourite Songs (The Last Great Concert). This was through the Kennerton Gjallarhorn JM Edition driven by Valhalla II with the Brimar Footscrays CV4033 ◾️ getter: 1956.
> ~ To surrender myself to the musings of Chet Baker with NDR big band / Radio Hannover Orchestra so willingly and so totally is my best testament to the Gjallarhorn, to the Footscrays, AND to the Valhalla II. Bravo !!


WOW! The sensitivity on the horns is 116db @ 33ohms. 😳
250mw max.
Amazing that the impedance of 33ohms works with an OTL. I suppose it's the sensitivity factoring in? I'm really interested in these cans!


----------



## jonathan c (Jul 5, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> WOW! The sensitivity on the horns is 116db @ 33ohms. 😳
> 250mw max.
> Amazing that the impedance of 33ohms works with an OTL. I suppose it's the sensitivity factoring in? I'm really interested in these cans!


The output impedance of the Valhalla II at the low gain setting is 3.5 ohms. The sensitivity of the Gjallarhorn allows for the use of the low gain setting. 3.5 out —> 33.0 in will certainly not create impedance driven frequency response deviations. The Gjallarhorn JM Edition does not sound like a closed-back - especially with Footscrays !…PS…the Gjallarhorn headphone termination is the same 3.5mm termination that is used on the Clear. You can use your balanced cable on both Clear _and_ Gjallarhorn!


----------



## MrGoat (Jul 5, 2021)

MrGoat said:


> I didnt know where else to post this:
> 
> Does any one have a little bit of play in their power switch and/or gain switch on their Valhalla 2. I noticed yesterday that it kind of wiggles side to side whether it is on or off. None of my other schiit products do this, their switches are very solid.
> 
> I emailed schiit and they suggested I send it back for them to look at. Would I just be wasting my time? Is this normal? Thanks.



Alright. I made a gif video of the wiggly power switch. The gain switch is about the same level of loose. Is this normal? I don't want to send it in for repair just to be told this is normal and I am OCD. Please someone who also owns this amplifier, please help me out and check your switch!


----------



## jonathan c

MrGoat said:


> Alright. I made a gif video of the wiggly power switch. The gain switch is about the same level of loose. Is this normal? I don't want to send it in for repair just to be told this is normal and I am OCD. Please someone who also owns this amplifier, please help me out and check your switch!


Normal, not an issue.


----------



## MrGoat

jonathan c said:


> Normal, not an issue.


Thank you! I just could not remember if it was always like this or if I damaged it during a move or something. I appreciate you checking very much!


----------



## Lvivske

Still torn between the Tubemonger CV4033 (KB/AD) or the CV455 (KB/FB) on ebay (not a matched pair?). Latter would be going over my budget and since its from the UK, expecting some ridiculous surprise tax/duty COD getting slapped on top...but its also highly recommended...but they're also for a daily driver...

_Hardest decision in sports_


----------



## Guidostrunk

Lvivske said:


> Still torn between the Tubemonger CV4033 (KB/AD) or the CV455 (KB/FB) on ebay (not a matched pair?). Latter would be going over my budget and since its from the UK, expecting some ridiculous surprise tax/duty COD getting slapped on top...but its also highly recommended...but they're also for a daily driver...
> 
> _Hardest decision in sports_


Get the cv455 and be done bro. 😂


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 6, 2021)

Or keep dragging your feet and the decision will be made for you with the CV4033 being the only available tube...  😏


----------



## Guidostrunk

Ripper2860 said:


> Or the CV4033...  😏


Yep. KB/FB 😁


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 6, 2021)

OK.  You've sufficiently beat me into submission.  Let me go get some more printer ink so I can't print more money before ordering these 'magical' KB/FB CV-4033s.  I'll mention you in my order, so keep an eye out for your commission check.    

BTW -- I edited my original post while you were posting the above.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Ripper2860 said:


> OK.  You've sufficiently beat me into submission.  Let me go get some more printer ink so I can't print more money before ordering these 'magical' KB/FB CV-4033s.  I'll mention you in my order, so keep an eye out for your commission check.
> 
> BTW -- I edited my original post while you were posting the above.


😂😂😂


----------



## Lvivske

Ripper2860 said:


> Or keep dragging your feet and the decision will be made for you with the CV4033 being the only available tube...  😏



If I didn't drag my feet and bought on first mentions in this thread, I'd have the $45 Tubemongers in mail already lol

455s are like $80 CAD net more altogether fwiw


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 6, 2021)

Lvivske said:


> If I didn't drag my feet and bought on first mentions in this thread, I'd have the $45 Tubemongers in mail already lol


And you would be very happy with your purchase.     Maybe as much or maybe not as much as you would be with the 'unicorn' CV455 tubes, but very happy none-the-less.  Ask @Guidostrunk how happy he was with the TMs before he cheated on them and fell head-over-heels for the Raytheon Unlines, then grew restless and played footsie with the Footscray.  The TM CV-4033 was his 'end-game' until another came along.  That's the nature of this affliction -- one is NEVER satisfied or faithful!


----------



## KoshNaranek

Ripper2860 said:


> And you would be very happy with your purchase.     Maybe as much or maybe not as much as you would be with the 'unicorn' CV455 tubes, but very happy none-the-less.  Ask @Guidostrunk how happy he was with the TMs before he cheated on them and fell head-over-heels for the Raytheon Unlines, then grew restless and played Footsie with another.  The TM CV-4033 was his 'end-game' until another came along.  That's the nature of this affliction -- one is NEVER satisfied -- or faithful!


....and this is the reason that I am staying away from adapters. Once that line is crossed, a whole new world of tube rolling exists.


----------



## Lvivske

Ripper2860 said:


> And you would be very happy with your purchase.     Maybe as much or maybe not as much as you would be with the 'unicorn' CV455 tubes, but very happy none-the-less.  Ask @Guidostrunk how happy he was with the TMs before he cheated on them and fell head-over-heels for the Raytheon Unlines, then grew restless and played Footsie with another.  The TM CV-4033 was his 'end-game' until another came along.  That's the nature of this affliction -- one is NEVER satisfied or faithful!



I'm afraid.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Ripper2860 said:


> And you would be very happy with your purchase.     Maybe as much or maybe not as much as you would be with the 'unicorn' CV455 tubes, but very happy none-the-less.  Ask @Guidostrunk how happy he was with the TMs before he cheated on them and fell head-over-heels for the Raytheon Unlines, then grew restless and played Footsie with another.  The TM CV-4033 was his 'end-game' until another came along.  That's the nature of this affliction -- one is NEVER satisfied or faithful!


If you only knew what I spent in tubes just this past year 😞
Easily could have purchased the Utopia I've been wanting lol.


----------



## jonathan c (Jul 6, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> If you only knew what I spent in tubes just this past year 😞
> Easily could have purchased the Utopia I've been wanting lol.


if you had bought the Utopia first, you would have only had enough left for GE tubes to feed it !!


----------



## jonathan c

KoshNaranek said:


> ....and this is the reason that I am staying away from adapters. Once that line is crossed, a whole new world of tube rolling exists.


A world of aural delights that just beckons you...sometimes softly...sometimes loudly...


----------



## jonathan c

Lvivske said:


> Still torn between the Tubemonger CV4033 (KB/AD) or the CV455 (KB/FB) on ebay (not a matched pair?). Latter would be going over my budget and since its from the UK, expecting some ridiculous surprise tax/duty COD getting slapped on top...but its also highly recommended...but they're also for a daily driver...
> 
> _Hardest decision in sports_


I agree with Guidostrunk. Get the CV455 KB/FB. Why? It sounds fantastic. To me, it is "next-to-holy-grail" in stature without the holy grail price. It is a Footscray plant made tube; AND it is a square getter, AND a triple mica, AND is good supply currently at Langrex. What else is there to say?...


----------



## Wes S (Jul 6, 2021)

Did someone say CV455 Square Getter from Footscray?  It only took a month, but check out what just got delivered.


----------



## Lvivske

jonathan c said:


> I agree with Guidostrunk. Get the CV455 KB/FB. Why? It sounds fantastic. To me, it is "next-to-holy-grail" in stature without the holy grail price. It is a Footscray plant made tube; AND it is a square getter, AND a triple mica, AND is good supply currently at Langrex. What else is there to say?...



just the $80 extra out the new-new DAC budget lol

having a moment right now, pulled the Fotons, reseating, checking cables and software, re-tuning my EQs for hours since Saturday - was testing another amp out; whatever sweet spot I had for the past month is gone, either painfully harsh or too muddy. Maybe I flew too close to the sun and blew my ears out...


----------



## Lvivske

Wes S said:


> Did someone say CV455 Square Getter from Footscray?  It only took a month, but check out what just got delivered.








damn you Wes lol


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> if you had bought the Utopia first, you would have only had enough left for GE tubes to feed it !!


😂 right.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Did someone say CV455 Square Getter from Footscray?  It only took a month, but check out what just got delivered.


The square getter feature is one of the _killer_ aspects of the CV455 besides its Footscray manufacture. Langrex is showing a stock of 318. Did you order from Langrex? My longest wait for order delivery has been 11 days. Anyway, better late….


----------



## jonathan c

To elaborate on ‘killer’, here is one such combination (as in posts #1,612 and #1,614): Valhalla II, NEVZ 6N6Ps, Brimar CV455 / 4033 KB/FBs, Gjallarhorn JM Edition. As Guidostrunk said in his early Footscraying, “I can’t pull myself away”…(I added the headband cover to the outer bands and the Dekoni nugget to _eliminate _possibility of microphonics):


----------



## Wes S (Jul 7, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> The square getter feature is one of the _killer_ aspects of the CV455 besides its Footscray manufacture. Langrex is showing a stock of 318. Did you order from Langrex? My longest wait for order delivery has been 11 days. Anyway, better late….


I did and it took exactly 30 days to arrive.  Langrex was actually about to send out a replacement right before this one arrived, and they definitely have amazing customer service.   I am listening right now with the CV455, and I am very very impressed.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 7, 2021)

If anyone is interested I am selling a NIB matched pair of Brimar CV4033 Triple Mica O Getters from Footscray 57' for $150.  They are listed in the classifieds.  I have several sets of these, and don't need so many of them, so here is a golden opportunity for someone.  Just of note I am only selling within U.S.  This is a steal of deal!

Edit - The sale is pending.


----------



## Lvivske (Jul 8, 2021)

cebuboy said:


> Anybody here tried the 6n6p-ir? I know it draws 900ma of current and against Nick T’s advice of using it due to the higher current draw. I’m pairing it with the lower draw of the 5670 series so total would not exceed 2.7a. I find it sounds fuller compared to the various nevz 6n6p I have. I constantly keep watch on the amps temp though. But I noticed it does not run as hot compared to running 6n1p and 6n6p in stock config.



^^ anyone else try the 6n6p-ir's? Seems there's been some mention of experimenting with them years ago with positive results, but surprised it just fell off

edit: seems another board talked about what this board discussed a few years back, and concluded the I/IR work fine, but im surprised on both boards there doesnt seem to be any review follow up....maybe the tubes are lethal ><


----------



## regaet (Jul 11, 2021)

Well after going back and forth for several days I ordered the CV455s tonight. First, it was Wes and Ripper and now Jonathan, you guys are killing me! This will make 3 pairs of Brimars I've bought in the last few months. Not that I'm not my own worst enemy as I sit here listening to my Elears with a Wywires Platinum headphone cable that is approaching 100 hrs. (couldn't resist 40% off and 30-day trial) I've gone from Black Dragons to Wireworld Nano Eclipse to these. Up till about 70 hrs, there wasn't that much improvement but now I understand why he stresses 100 hrs. There's more air, instruments and voices are fleshing out and most importantly I'm smiling.  I was just listening to zombie girl by Adrianne Lenker and I turned around when I heard a fly flying around my head before I remembered it was on the recording. Can't wait to hear what you guys have been talking about.


----------



## Lvivske

Same. I broke down.

I hate myself. I hate Wes, Guido, Ripper, Jon....I hate everything.

_Unless I love them_, in which case I love everything & everyone.


----------



## Ripper2860

Well, then I hope to be on your Valentine's Day card list next year.


----------



## KoshNaranek

Lvivske said:


> Same. I broke down.
> 
> I hate myself. I hate Wes, Guido, Ripper, Jon....I hate everything.
> 
> _Unless I love them_, in which case I love everything & everyone.


I understand how you feel. When I realized how much money I had spent tube rolling Valhalla. I felt a deep sense of shame.


----------



## Ripper2860

As did I, but I quickly overcame it and pressed on.


----------



## Wes S

KoshNaranek said:


> I understand how you feel. When I realized how much money I had spent tube rolling Valhalla. I felt a deep sense of shame.


The good thing about tubes is they hold their value and last for thousands of hours.  If I buy a tube and don't like it or don't end up using it, I sell it and usually get all or most of my money back.


----------



## Lvivske (Jul 12, 2021)

KoshNaranek said:


> I understand how you feel. When I realized how much money I had spent tube rolling Valhalla. I felt a deep sense of shame.



Yeah, especially since I'm perfectly happy with the set I *just bought* lol. But if I buy each item in my setup separately on different websites my spending is diversified and thus much more financially manageable. (smart)



Wes S said:


> The good thing about tubes is they hold their value and last for thousands of hours.  If I buy a tube and don't like it or don't end up using it, I sell it and usually get all or most of my money back.



if i dont like it i'm going to break it


----------



## KoshNaranek

Lvivske said:


> if i dont like it i'm going to break it


Avtar checks out correct


----------



## Wes S

KoshNaranek said:


> Avtar checks out correct


LOL!


----------



## regaet

These Clear tops I bought don't sound very good.


----------



## Guidostrunk

regaet said:


> These Clear tops I bought don't sound very good.


😂 I don't think those tubes were meant to be clear tops. They look like spent tubes.


----------



## Wes S

regaet said:


> These Clear tops I bought don't sound very good.


I amazed the sound at all!   Seriously though, did you buy them like that?


----------



## Ripper2860

The top flashing should be silver/chrome.  The fact that they are white means that the vacuum in the tube has been compromised.  Those need to to back to the seller or into the trash bin.


----------



## regaet

regaet said:


> These Clear tops I bought don't sound very good.


They had chrome tops when I first got them and sounded great but within 24 hrs they both died. If you look at the base you can see they both cracked and lost vacuum. I've never seen that happen before and the seller gave me a very quick refund. Just thought maybe you guys hadn't seen a clear top 6n6p before and I was kidding about the sound as there is none. It was late, and it brought a smile to my face in an otherwise pain in the ass process of getting some square getter Fotons. Which I did finally get and they do sound great Wes.


----------



## Lvivske

Hey guys, was just hearing a strange sound in my right ear - like a static that rippled away. I thought it was a glitch on the track or USB signal interference of some sort, but unplugged my DAC while it was still happening so it wasnt from the source

it was like a pop that echoed away lasting like 2 seconds per pulse; dont think volume affected it, it wasnt very loud

it went away, cant repeat it at the moment

but is that a tube, or....the amp...or...?


----------



## Wes S

Lvivske said:


> Hey guys, was just hearing a strange sound in my right ear - like a static that rippled away. I thought it was a glitch on the track or USB signal interference of some sort, but unplugged my DAC while it was still happening so it wasnt from the source
> 
> it was like a pop that echoed away lasting like 2 seconds per pulse; dont think volume affected it, it wasnt very loud
> 
> ...


A good way to tell, is to continue to isolate the issue.  You did great by unplugging the DAC, and next I would try swapping tubes with left and right and see if the issue changes sides, if so it's the tube.  If after swapping tubes from and left to right, you still hear the sound in the same channel then it might be the amp.  That's what I would do.  Also, sometimes tubes just make random noises and then it never happens again, so if the sound doesn't come back, I wouldn't worry about it.  That's my 2 cents.


----------



## Lvivske

Thanks, if it happens again I'll reverse them to take note on a 3rd event, might have been a one-off


----------



## aviationwiz

Hello all - I've been lurking for a while, though it's my first time posting - I'm new to tube amps, and just ordered my Valhalla 2 which will be here next week.

Having spent a considerable amount of time (though admittedly I haven't looked through all 111 pages), I was looking at the Brimar CV4033 or Brimar CV455... I understand I would need to order the adapter from tubemonger/pulsetubestore to use these - although it occurred to me I don't know if people are using these for all 4 tubes or just 2? If for 2 - are there suggestions for what to replace the other 2 stock tubes with?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Lvivske

aviationwiz said:


> Hello all - I've been lurking for a while, though it's my first time posting - I'm new to tube amps, and just ordered my Valhalla 2 which will be here next week.
> 
> Having spent a considerable amount of time (though admittedly I haven't looked through all 111 pages), I was looking at the Brimar CV4033 or Brimar CV455... I understand I would need to order the adapter from tubemonger/pulsetubestore to use these - although it occurred to me I don't know if people are using these for all 4 tubes or just 2? If for 2 - are there suggestions for what to replace the other 2 stock tubes with?
> 
> Thanks in advance!



The adapters are just for the (English) Brimars since they are replacing the Soviet 6N1Ps

The power tubes, the 6N6Ps, are factory recommended to just swap for the same model, so most recommendations in this thread are on which factory to year to buy for. The two mostly preffered are the Foton factory (diamond logo) or Nevz (pentagon logo)


----------



## Wes S (Jul 15, 2021)

aviationwiz said:


> Hello all - I've been lurking for a while, though it's my first time posting - I'm new to tube amps, and just ordered my Valhalla 2 which will be here next week.
> 
> Having spent a considerable amount of time (though admittedly I haven't looked through all 111 pages), I was looking at the Brimar CV4033 or Brimar CV455... I understand I would need to order the adapter from tubemonger/pulsetubestore to use these - although it occurred to me I don't know if people are using these for all 4 tubes or just 2? If for 2 - are there suggestions for what to replace the other 2 stock tubes with?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Hey there,

The front 2 tubes would be where the CV4033 or CV455 with adapters would go.  As for the power tubes in the back, there is not another tube other than the 6N6P.  However, there are several versions (made in different plants) of the 6N6P, and the one's made in the Foton factory are the best.  I would just start with the 2 front driver tubes, as that will make the biggest difference.  Also, once you put the adapters and CV455 or CV4033 in the amp the front tubes will be about the same height or a bit taller than the back tubes, which does no harm sonically but looks funny, so most just use a socket saver made to raise the height and put things back to normal looking.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 15, 2021)

Looks like @Lvivske beat me to it, while I was typing my post.


----------



## Lvivske (Jul 15, 2021)

Wes S said:


> Looks like @Lvivske beat me to it, while I was typing my post.



...this is my life now

edit: and I agree with Wes' about the 6N6P making a much smaller difference so if the tubes are new there's not a huge reason to change them out IMO. I've gone back n forth from the Fotons to the mis-matched stock whatevers and been happy with both, whereas I couldn't imagine switch my JJs back for the stock tubes (and I'm sure the 455s will be a similar revolution)


----------



## Wes S

"...this is my life now"  - I love it man, and feel the same way.


----------



## aviationwiz

Thanks! My next question, leading off that... tubemongers has unpaired CV4033's with imperfect test scores for $30, and also matched pairs for $45/each - is the extra cost for the matched pairs a must? Similarly - any issues with the CV455's from Langrex as they appear to be unpaired?


----------



## Wes S (Jul 15, 2021)

aviationwiz said:


> Thanks! My next question, leading off that... tubemongers has unpaired CV4033's with imperfect test scores for $30, and also matched pairs for $45/each - is the extra cost for the matched pairs a must? Similarly - any issues with the CV455's from Langrex as they appear to be unpaired?


Personally, I would try to get matched pairs, to avoid any kind of possible channel imbalance.  However that being said, as long as the tubes test "good or NOS", you most likely would not hear a difference.  So, usually you can get away with tubes like the CV455 as they are said to all test close or around NOS.  However, speaking of the CV455 and Langrex, there has been a discovery today from another member with a tube tester, and the chances of getting an unmatched pair is possible, as that is what happend to him.  Those CV455 from Langrex all tested OK, but were definitely not a matched pair based off his test results.  So, the safe bet is the matched pair of CV4033, and the more risky but possibly more rewarding is the pair of CV455 (these are the best).


----------



## Lvivske

fingers crossed, i asked beforehand and Dan @ Langrex told me they can do matched pairs, and made sure to request it in my order comments


----------



## Wes S

Lvivske said:


> fingers crossed, i asked beforehand and Dan @ Langrex told me they can do matched pairs, and made sure to request it in my order comments


That's good to know!


----------



## chrisnyc75

Is there consensus as to how long the 6N6P tubes last before they should be replaced?  I know the input tubes should last a few thousand hours, but I'm coming up on a year with my Valhalla and I'm sure I've put 1000 hours on it and wondering whether I should order new power tubes yet?  I don't hear any degradation, but I suspect that's like expecting to see your own hair grow.


----------



## Guidostrunk

chrisnyc75 said:


> Is there consensus as to how long the 6N6P tubes last before they should be replaced?  I know the input tubes should last a few thousand hours, but I'm coming up on a year with my Valhalla and I'm sure I've put 1000 hours on it and wondering whether I should order new power tubes yet?  I don't hear any degradation, but I suspect that's like expecting to see your own hair grow.


Obviously it's a concern to you so just snag a backup pair for the event that they should fail. It'll definitely ease your mind. 😁


----------



## chrisnyc75

Guidostrunk said:


> Obviously it's a concern to you so just snag a backup pair for the event that they should fail. It'll definitely ease your mind. 😁


That's super helpful.


----------



## Guidostrunk

chrisnyc75 said:


> That's super helpful.


I'm a tube addict. What did you expect? 😂


----------



## Ripper2860

6N6Ps are SUPER CHEAP right now.  Grab 2 pairs of the Foton on eBay and call it a decade.


----------



## aviationwiz

chrisnyc75 said:


> Is there consensus as to how long the 6N6P tubes last before they should be replaced?  I know the input tubes should last a few thousand hours, but I'm coming up on a year with my Valhalla and I'm sure I've put 1000 hours on it and wondering whether I should order new power tubes yet?  I don't hear any degradation, but I suspect that's like expecting to see your own hair grow.


I’m brand new to all this - so potentially take this with a grain of salt, but I’ve seen 2,000 hours service life and “no less than 2,000 hours” service life online when searching about the 6N6P - I don’t know if this potentially varies by manufacturer though.


----------



## Wes S

There are way to many variables to say for sure how long a tube will last.  Like other's have mentioned already the 6N6P is so cheap, just buy a few sets and you never have to worry about it again.  Unfortunately, I don't think you will find a definitive answer, as I don't think very many people if any at all have even had to replace a 6N6P from being used up.  Just my 2 cents.


----------



## chrisnyc75

Wes S said:


> There are way to many variables to say for sure how long a tube will last.  Like other's have mentioned already the 6N6P is so cheap, just buy a few sets and you never have to worry about it again.  Unfortunately, I don't think you will find a definitive answer, as I don't think very many people if any at all have even had to replace a 6N6P from being used up.  Just my 2 cents.


Thank you, that's a bit more helpful than the rest.  I wasn't asking whether I should buy more tubes, I can make those decisions without any direction from the peanut gallery.  I was HOPING the experts here might be able to share some insight on how long 6N6P retains its full performance before beginning to degrade in a way that might impact sound and/or performance. I haven't encountered any other amps that use this tube type before, so I just have no idea how long it should last before it is advisable to replace it.

But I guess the answer is to stockpile them and wait for one to explode before replacing it. lol  Super.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 17, 2021)

@chrisnyc75 -- as cheap as the 6N6P are, I was suggesting picking up a couple of pairs for the purpose of swapping the old ones out and see if you notice any audible difference.  I should have provided more info, but I posted from work so brevity was required.

A slow degrade in tubes may be difficult to perceive over a long period of time, but a direct comparison of old vs fresh should provide the answer you seek re: are your tubes possibly worn.  It is truly difficult to ascertain a tube's decline until it reaches a point of noise, greatly reduced output, or no output at all -- it just typically happens too gradually.  As stated by Wes, there are far too many variables to assign a definitive number of hours to calling a specific tube as done.  Fortunately the 6N6Ps are priced where one could compare and do that inexpensively as opposed to other more costly power tubes. 

BTW -- the Fotons I suggested previously are very good (and inexpensive) tubes and do represent an nice upgrade to the usual Sovtek tubes included at purchase.  Worth exploring.


----------



## chrisnyc75

Ripper2860 said:


> @chrisnyc75 -- as cheap as the 6N6P are, I was suggesting picking up a couple of pairs for the purpose of swapping the old ones out and see if you notice any audible difference.  I should have provided more info, but I posted from work so brevity was required.
> 
> A slow degrade in tubes may be difficult to perceive over a long period of time, but a direct comparison of old vs fresh should provide the answer you seek.  Fortunately the 6N6Ps are priced where one could do that as opposed to other more costly tubes.  It is truly difficult to ascertain a tube's decline until it reaches a point of noise, greatly reduced output, or no output at all -- it just typically happens too gradually.  As stated by Wes, there are far too many variables to assign a definitive number of hours to calling a specific tube as done.
> 
> BTW -- the Fotons I suggested previously are very good (and inexpensive) tubes and do represent an nice upgrade to the usual Sovtek tubes included at purchase.  Worth exploring.


This helps.  Thanks   And I'm all about an upgrade, I'll check out the Fotons you mentioned.


----------



## KoshNaranek

chrisnyc75 said:


> Thank you, that's a bit more helpful than the rest.  I wasn't asking whether I should buy more tubes, I can make those decisions without any direction from the peanut gallery.  I was HOPING the experts here might be able to share some insight on how long 6N6P retains its full performance before beginning to degrade in a way that might impact sound and/or performance. I haven't encountered any other amps that use this tube type before, so I just have no idea how long it should last before it is advisable to replace it.
> 
> But I guess the answer is to stockpile them and wait for one to explode before replacing it. lol  Super.


Lifespan is 5000 hours. About 5 years of daily use.


----------



## 40lb

Being reading this thread off and on. All this talk about Brimar 4033 had my curiosity at the max.
This thread is bad for my wallet, I now want more tubes.


----------



## Ripper2860

There may be better sounding tubes for Valhalla 2, but they are very few and far between.  The CV4033 is an excellent combo and no one would blame you if you stopped right there.  But we all know that's not gonna happen, right?


----------



## regaet

What about the Brimar CV455?


----------



## Guidostrunk

regaet said:


> What about the Brimar CV455?


I recommend it over the cv4033 KB/AD Rochester tubes. The KB/FB is the Footscray tubes and much better sounding. The CV455 is the consumer version of the CV4033 which is the military and communications tube. I'm still waiting for my 455 Footscray to arrive. I currently possess all variants of the CV4033 lol.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/12AT7-CV45...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 18, 2021)

regaet said:


> What about the Brimar CV455?


I'll let you know once I receive them. Even if the CV455 is a better sounding tube it certainly does not mean that the CV4033 is not a good sounding tube.   😏


----------



## regaet

My CV 455s are supposed to be delivered tomorrow???? Fingers crossed!!!


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> I recommend it over the cv4033 KB/AD Rochester tubes. The KB/FB is the Footscray tubes and much better sounding. The CV455 is the consumer version of the CV4033 which is the military and communications tube. I'm still waiting for my 455 Footscray to arrive. I currently possess all variants of the CV4033 lol.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/12AT7-CV45...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0


AGREED!  CV455 KB/FB > CV4033 KB/AD ! With the serendipitous combination of: Brimar brand, Footscray plant of manufacture, square getter, triple mica, decent current availability, and reasonable price, just fork the $ over. [Tell ‘em (Langrex…) that Guidostrunk & Jonathan c sent you…]


----------



## regaet

Received the CV455 KB/FB tubes today and they are in the Valhalla burning in. Ordered 7/10 on ebay.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

Guidostrunk said:


> I recommend it over the cv4033 KB/AD Rochester tubes. The KB/FB is the Footscray tubes and much better sounding. The CV455 is the consumer version of the CV4033 which is the military and communications tube. I'm still waiting for my 455 Footscray to arrive. I currently possess all variants of the CV4033 lol.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/12AT7-CV45...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0


Question for you guys - comparing the pinout of this tube to the Svetlana 6N1P I see only one difference - Pin 9.  On the 6N1P it appears to be a screen which I'm assuming helps isolate the two triodes.  The12AT7 Pin 9 looks to be a center tap on the heater.  Are the 12AT7's direct drop in replacements, or do you need adapters?  Thanks!


----------



## Wes S

GumbyDammit223 said:


> Question for you guys - comparing the pinout of this tube to the Svetlana 6N1P I see only one difference - Pin 9.  On the 6N1P it appears to be a screen which I'm assuming helps isolate the two triodes.  The12AT7 Pin 9 looks to be a center tap on the heater.  Are the 12AT7's direct drop in replacements, or do you need adapters?  Thanks!


You need adapters, and these are the best - https://pulsetubestore.com/products...uction-base-9-pin-b9a-noval-not-made-in-china


----------



## GumbyDammit223

Wes S said:


> You need adapters, and these are the best - https://pulsetubestore.com/products/12axx-to-ecc88-adapter-plug-play-novib-©-1960s-nos-british-mcmurdo-phenolic-socket-on-top-plus-vibration-reduction-base-9-pin-b9a-noval-not-made-in-china


Thanks for the confirmation that they are indeed different pinouts!  *Waves at money disappearing down the rabbit hole*


----------



## Lvivske

Don't wave at it, it never waves back...


----------



## GumbyDammit223

I know.  It just laughs.


----------



## Lvivske

Good news, 455s came in way faster than expected, no duty or sales tax on delivery,WIN





Bad news, no adapters yet, and my headphones are in shambles





Might be a bit before I can review these


----------



## Wes S

Lvivske said:


> Good news, 455s came in way faster than expected, no duty or sales tax on delivery,WIN
> 
> 
> Bad news, no adapters yet, and my headphones are in shambles
> ...


Nice pair of tubes!  Consider yourself lucky you even got them delivered, with how inconsistent the USPS is.


----------



## Lvivske

Wes S said:


> Nice pair of tubes!  Consider yourself lucky you even got them delivered, with how inconsistent the USPS is.



Her Majesty's Royal Mail would never let me down like that!


----------



## GumbyDammit223

Was the headphone explosion intentional???

I think I'm in the same boat re: tubes & adapters.  I see the tubes are making their way through the British mail system.  The adapters, on the other hand, seem to be stuck in New Deli customs per FedEx.


----------



## Lvivske

GumbyDammit223 said:


> Was the headphone explosion intentional???



Yeah, doing a very stressful repaint



GumbyDammit223 said:


> I think I'm in the same boat re: tubes & adapters.  I see the tubes are making their way through the British mail system.  The adapters, on the other hand, seem to be stuck in New Deli customs per FedEx.



Right now my daily trackers are a race between the adapters & some cables from China and the 6N6P-IRs from Ukraine. It's a nail-biter. 🏇🏇


----------



## GumbyDammit223

Good luck on both the repaint and the international shipping wars!


----------



## Lvivske (Jul 23, 2021)

GumbyDammit223 said:


> Good luck on both the repaint and the international shipping wars!



I just botched the paint again.







edit: emergency re-clear-coat session round 5 today, at this rate I'll never listen to music again


----------



## GumbyDammit223

Lvivske said:


> I just botched the paint again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Relax.  Have a refreshing beverage (or several).  Wake up in the morning with a fresh start and try again.  Remember - we're all crazy and results will be different if you do it over and over!


----------



## Lvivske

GumbyDammit223 said:


> results will be different if you do it over and over!


I believe that's the definition of insanity  (already there)


----------



## regaet (Jul 24, 2021)

After adding the Wywires cable and a pair of the Brimar CV455 Footscray tubes I am done for a while. I don't think I could improve my system without upgrading components which I'm not prepared to do at this time. I've got about 50 hrs on the tubes and they sound amazing and I am very pleased with the improvement the Wywires cable made (they really compliment each other). I think my wallet has taken as much abuse as it can take so I'm going to sit back enjoy my music and stop thinking about how I might improve it.


----------



## Lvivske

This actually brings up a good point since I'm veering into solid state by default

What's *better* than the Valhalla in the 500-1900 tube range? Audibly better, not boutique, paying for the wood finish or rarity or stuff like that. What's the chain upgrade from here?


----------



## regaet

Lvivske said:


> This actually brings up a good point since I'm veering into solid state by default
> 
> What's *better* than the Valhalla in the 500-1900 tube range? Audibly better, not boutique, paying for the wood finish or rarity or stuff like that. What's the chain upgrade from here?


Feliks Audio, Woo Audio, Auris Audio, Cayin, off the top of my head and there are more. For me, I would probably upgrade my headphones first. Which DAC are you saving for?


----------



## exchez

Lvivske said:


> This actually brings up a good point since I'm veering into solid state by default
> 
> What's *better* than the Valhalla in the 500-1900 tube range? Audibly better, not boutique, paying for the wood finish or rarity or stuff like that. What's the chain upgrade from here?


I had the Valhalla 2 and started listening to the WA2. It completely changed everything I knew about tube amps; a sort of realization moment.


----------



## Lvivske

regaet said:


> Feliks Audio, Woo Audio, Auris Audio, Cayin, off the top of my head and there are more. For me, I would probably upgrade my headphones first. Which DAC are you saving for?



Already have a Bifrost 2 & HD800s so the Valhalla 1 is technically the least expensive key piece in my chain



exchez said:


> I had the Valhalla 2 and started listening to the WA2. It completely changed everything I knew about tube amps; a sort of realization moment.



How so?


----------



## jonathan c

exchez said:


> I had the Valhalla 2 and started listening to the WA2. It completely changed everything I knew about tube amps; a sort of realization moment.


One of the biggest differences between the V2 and the WA2 is the tube rectification in the WA2…you may be hearing that…


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> One of the biggest differences between the V2 and the WA2 is the tube rectification in the WA2…you may be hearing that…


And also the power supply.


----------



## jonathan c (Jul 24, 2021)

I am still smitten with the combination of Valhalla II (NEVZ 6N6Ps + CV455 KB/FBs) and Kennerton Gjallarhorn JM Edition…

Contrary to expectations based on its low price, the Valhalla II scales up dramatically with a high/ultra-high quality DAC before it. This was obvious when switching between a NOS R2R EVO Mystique DAC and an ESS 9018 chip sigma/delta DAC.


----------



## Lvivske

jonathan c said:


> I am still smitten with the combination of Valhalla II (NEVZ 6N6Ps + CV455 KB/FBs) and Kennerton Gjallarhorn JM Edition…
> 
> Contrary to expectations based on its low price, the Valhalla II scales up dramatically with a high/ultra-high quality DAC before it. This was obvious when switching between a NOS R2R EVO Mystique DAC and an ESS 9018 chip sigma/delta DAC.



yeah, with the Bifrost 2 & 455s I'm more than excited to hear how this scales up once its all installed based on the reviews from you guys who have done all the experimenting already ><

Still, curious what else is "next" in pure performance (and not boutique prestige tax, just actual improvements) otherwise I'm going to mostly look at adding in the vintage/solid state area next year


----------



## jonathan c

Lvivske said:


> yeah, with the Bifrost 2 & 455s I'm more than excited to hear how this scales up once its all installed based on the reviews from you guys who have done all the experimenting already ><
> 
> Still, curious what else is "next" in pure performance (and not boutique prestige tax, just actual improvements) otherwise I'm going to mostly look at adding in the vintage/solid state area next year


The _next_ level of performance versus the V2-BF2-CV455 combination is likely to cost multiples of what you have thus spent. Diminishing incremental returns…but still improvements…bank/wallet be damned?…


----------



## Lvivske

jonathan c said:


> The _next_ level of performance versus the V2-BF2-CV455 combination is likely to cost multiples of what you have thus spent. Diminishing incremental returns…but still improvements…bank/wallet be damned?…



Yeah thats why I made sure to specify under 1900, if we're talking multiples for an appreciable increase then I'd rather just spend on *different* than *better*, laterally


----------



## GumbyDammit223

Lvivske said:


> I believe that's the definition of insanity  (already there)


'Zactly.  Crazy/insane let's not quibble about semantics!


----------



## exchez

Lvivske said:


> Already have a Bifrost 2 & HD800s so the Valhalla 1 is technically the least expensive key piece in my chain
> 
> 
> 
> How so?


With the Valhalla 2 I couldn't entirely square people's descriptions of what they loved about tube amps with what I was hearing from it. Notions like "holographic", "natural" and "harmonics" were subtle with the Valhalla 2. And I think that's by design. Schiit made a nice OTL tube amp version of the Asgard or Jotunheim. When I started listening to the WA2 those previously vague notions became immediately more clear. Every aspect of what makes vacuum tubes special is on full display with the WA2 and I find the result very satisfying. Also, when tube rolling with the Valhalla 2 I found the differences between two very different output tubes to be almost negligible. The Valhalla 2 sounds very similar whether I use 1980's Matsushitas or 1960's Amperex Heerlens. With the WA2, the differences are much clearer and mostly correspond to other impressions I've read on here and Tube Asylum. 

The WA2 also comes with some pitfalls. Since the tubes have such a large impact on the sound, it can take some time and a considerable amount of money to find the right tube combo for you. The Valhalla 2's consistent sound from one tube to the next saves you from a lot of that BS. Both amps I listen to with a Bifrost 2 DAC and Beyerdynamic T1.2 headphones. Headphone choice can make a big difference too. If you decide to get a WA2 you should also be seriously considering T1s or HD800s. I found my old HD6XXs were not up to the task of giving me everything the WA2 had to offer.


----------



## Jbucla2005 (Jul 27, 2021)

Can I use the JJ ECC99’s in the Valhalla as power tubes, or will it damage the amp?


----------



## Wes S (Jul 28, 2021)

exchez said:


> With the Valhalla 2 I couldn't entirely square people's descriptions of what they loved about tube amps with what I was hearing from it. Notions like "holographic", "natural" and "harmonics" were subtle with the Valhalla 2. And I think that's by design. Schiit made a nice OTL tube amp version of the Asgard or Jotunheim. When I started listening to the WA2 those previously vague notions became immediately more clear. Every aspect of what makes vacuum tubes special is on full display with the WA2 and I find the result very satisfying. Also, when tube rolling with the Valhalla 2 I found the differences between two very different output tubes to be almost negligible. The Valhalla 2 sounds very similar whether I use 1980's Matsushitas or 1960's Amperex Heerlens. With the WA2, the differences are much clearer and mostly correspond to other impressions I've read on here and Tube Asylum.
> 
> The WA2 also comes with some pitfalls. Since the tubes have such a large impact on the sound, it can take some time and a considerable amount of money to find the right tube combo for you. The Valhalla 2's consistent sound from one tube to the next saves you from a lot of that BS. Both amps I listen to with a Bifrost 2 DAC and Beyerdynamic T1.2 headphones. Headphone choice can make a big difference too. If you decide to get a WA2 you should also be seriously considering T1s or HD800s. I found my old HD6XXs were not up to the task of giving me everything the WA2 had to offer.


If you were to roll in some 12AT7's with adapters, all those descriptors will apply to the V2 as well.   Those descriptive terms like "holographic" "natural" and "harmonics" suddenly come to mind, when that tube type is rolled into the V2, and especially if they are some 7728's, CV455, or CV4033 tubes.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> If you were to roll in some 12AT7's with adapters, all those descriptors will apply to the V2 as well.   Those descriptive terms like "holographic" "natural" and "harmonics" suddenly come to mind, when that tube type is rolled into the V2, and especially if they are some 7728's, CV455, or CV4033 tubes.


I agree with @Wes S. The Valhalla II becomes a very special h/p/a when the tubes mentioned (as well as other 12AT7s) are used. (Also, use the best 6N6Ps - Foton or NEVZ). The Valhalla II in this fashion _will_ deliver you the music in a naturally engaging manner. And it can do so with high and low impedance hps. (Mine go from Beyerdynamic DT880 @ 600 ohms to Audeze LCD-X @ 20 ohms.)


----------



## Lvivske (Jul 29, 2021)

Well, I'm officially in the club now lol

Need to run them in a bit to be fair. Early impressions were mixed - both clearer highs but muddier lows with my previous EQ tuning, though standard I think it sounds very good (for reference, HD800 + Valhalla stock I found so bad I shelved the whole thing for years)

New DAC, new EQ, new tubes, its been a busy couple days of changes to keep account of. I've rolled the 2k band way up and 6k lower than usual and things are feeling magical again like when I first got the JJ's in this. Gonna be agonizing finding the exact sweet spot...hope I dont blow my ears out again ><


----------



## MacMan31

I have a Valhalla 2 on the way. Bought one used on Canuck Audio Mart. Comes with the stock tubes as well as Amperex 7308 Orange globe from the 1960s. According to the seller the latter are really great tubes. My headphones are the HD6XX and ZMF Aeolus. For now I will be using the DAC in my Marantz HD-DAC1 HP amp. Recommendations on other tubes to try would be appreciated. Thank you.


----------



## Lvivske

MacMan31 said:


> I have a Valhalla 2 on the way. Bought one used on Canuck Audio Mart. Comes with the stock tubes as well as Amperex 7308 Orange globe from the 1960s. According to the seller the latter are really great tubes. My headphones are the HD6XX and ZMF Aeolus. For now I will be using the DAC in my Marantz HD-DAC1 HP amp. Recommendations on other tubes to try would be appreciated. Thank you.



Really interesting to see how the Marantz DAC pairs with this, saw one in the classifieds recently for a great price and urge to try it bit me

Other guys here have tried like....all the tubes, so will have a better take on what to get, but for the output tube we're limited to Soviet 6N6P tubes, with the rough preference being the Foton (diamond logo) manufacturer (you'll see Novosibirsk (e logo, or pentagon logo) out there as well. These tubes dont make the largest impact on sound.

Your Amperex are pretty pricey, sounds like you started with a helluva upgrade. Lately the guys here have been recommending Brimar CV4033 / CV455s as the optimal input tubes. (there, you're up to speed on the thread)


----------



## MacMan31

Lvivske said:


> Really interesting to see how the Marantz DAC pairs with this, saw one in the classifieds recently for a great price and urge to try it bit me
> 
> Other guys here have tried like....all the tubes, so will have a better take on what to get, but for the output tube we're limited to Soviet 6N6P tubes, with the rough preference being the Foton (diamond logo) manufacturer (you'll see Novosibirsk (e logo, or pentagon logo) out there as well. These tubes dont make the largest impact on sound.
> 
> Your Amperex are pretty pricey, sounds like you started with a helluva upgrade. Lately the guys here have been recommending Brimar CV4033 / CV455s as the optimal input tubes. (there, you're up to speed on the thread)



The Marantz HD-DAC1 is an overall great HP amp. On paper it doesn't seem very powerful. However I never need to go past 11 o'clock on low gain. It's plenty loud for me. It actually replaced a THX789 + Topping D70 stack as I thought the Marantz sounded better overall. 

So is it best to leave the output tubes as stock and just swap the other set as desired? I'll keep an eye out for those Brimar tubes.


----------



## Lvivske

MacMan31 said:


> So is it best to leave the output tubes as stock and just swap the other set as desired?



Once I pulled them I found Schiit didnt even put the same brand in, 2 random tubes, so in theory guess it would makse sense to get a proper pair in if they did that, but thats maybe down the line "i have nothing better to do with my time to upgrade this anymore" stuff. I'm really happy with mine but I've made so many changes in such a short span I can't truly pinpoint how much they affected the sound in the end once everything settled. I posted some first impressions here at the time.

they're super cheap on ebay, not a big deal


----------



## jonathan c

MacMan31 said:


> The Marantz HD-DAC1 is an overall great HP amp. On paper it doesn't seem very powerful. However I never need to go past 11 o'clock on low gain. It's plenty loud for me. It actually replaced a THX789 + Topping D70 stack as I thought the Marantz sounded better overall.
> 
> So is it best to leave the output tubes as stock and just swap the other set as desired? I'll keep an eye out for those Brimar tubes.


I run the Valhalla II with NEVZ 6N6P matched tubes and the Brimar CV455 KB/FB (Footscray plant: 1956) tubes. For the CV455, you will need 12A*7 (top) —> 6922 (bottom) adapters. The CV455 are available at Langrex in the U.K. Results of all this:  🎶🎼🎵👍.


----------



## MacMan31

Lvivske said:


> Once I pulled them I found Schiit didnt even put the same brand in, 2 random tubes, so in theory guess it would makse sense to get a proper pair in if they did that, but thats maybe down the line "i have nothing better to do with my time to upgrade this anymore" stuff. I'm really happy with mine but I've made so many changes in such a short span I can't truly pinpoint how much they affected the sound in the end once everything settled. I posted some first impressions here at the time.
> 
> they're super cheap on ebay, not a big deal



Could you please provide a link to your first impressions post?



jonathan c said:


> I run the Valhalla II with NEVZ 6N6P matched tubes and the Brimar CV455 KB/FB (Footscray plant: 1956) tubes. For the CV455, you will need 12A*7 (top) —> 6922 (bottom) adapters. The CV455 are available at Langrex in the U.K. Results of all this:  🎶🎼🎵👍.



Hmm okay. I would likely get my tubes from CAM if I do any tube rolling. https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/classifieds/15-vacuum-tubes-valves/ Where can I find this adapter?


----------



## Lvivske

MacMan31 said:


> Could you please provide a link to your first impressions post?
> 
> Hmm okay. I would likely get my tubes from CAM if I do any tube rolling. https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/classifieds/15-vacuum-tubes-valves/ Where can I find this adapter?



the most cost effective adapters are on aliexpress/ebay 

i checked my old post, i had to null the thoughts because something else in my chain changed. im getting something new in a day or so, so hopefully i can do a more direct A/B comparison on that

fwiw, the tubes I ordered from the UK ended up with zero duty or sales tax in Canada, if you were worried about staying domestic for that reason


----------



## GumbyDammit223

MacMan31 said:


> Could you please provide a link to your first impressions post?
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm okay. I would likely get my tubes from CAM if I do any tube rolling. https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/classifieds/15-vacuum-tubes-valves/ Where can I find this adapter?


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-valhalla-tube-rolling-thread.619910/post-16464300

When I asked this question, the above was the answer I received.  They come from India and were shipped FedEx.  They were stuck in Deli customs over the weekend but broke loose and I received them last Wednesday for close to a week from order to receipt.  I ordered the tubes from the UK guy and received my pair last Saturday.  Haven't had a chance to mess with them yet.  It's been too damned hot and smoky here and I'm not keen on firing up a space heater just yet.  Good luck!


----------



## Lvivske

I had no idea Pulse was from India


----------



## GumbyDammit223

Neither did I, but was very pleasantly surprised at how fast I got them, even with the weekend hold.


----------



## Lvivske

Bored so tried risers under the adapters today, was curious if it would help with heat or how wacky it could look >< (Is there a level where I should actually be concerned about the unit being too hot?)


----------



## GumbyDammit223 (Aug 4, 2021)

I am thinking about doing the same thing and was wondering if the additional contact resistance might induce extra noise or who knows what to the sound.  That additional resistance should be in the milliohms and pretty insignificant, but that's theory, not real life.

Edit:  I'd think the worst case would be with no socket savers since the heat sources would be as close as possible to the rest of the electronics.  I'm assuming the adapters weren't filled with something like Silly Putty that would melt/leak out onto everything, so should be capable of handling the heat from a normal vacuum tube.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 4, 2021)

I've used tube lifters for quite some time resulting in significantly lower chassis temps and absolutely no audible degradation.

I do not double-up, however, as most adapters will raise the tube sufficiently.  This image has 12A*7 adapters for driver tubes and TubeMonger tube lifters / socket savers with the power tubes.  Plus, I'm a bit OCD and don't like the front driver tubes sitting higher than the rear power tubes.


----------



## Wes S

Lvivske said:


> Bored so tried risers under the adapters today, was curious if it would help with heat or how wacky it could look >< (Is there a level where I should actually be concerned about the unit being too hot?)


I would not worry about heat at all.  The outside case of the amp is design to be a heat sink.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 4, 2021)

True -- but a cooler amp is a happier amp.  Plus mine sits atop my BF2 so, the less heat load on the chassis/heatsink, the less is radiated downward at the BF2.  And not as panful if my forearm touches the case while reaching over to power it off.


----------



## Lvivske

maybe a hotter amp is a better sounding amp? 

i dont mind it being hot, like a fresh cup of coffee, but when the volume knob gets uncomfortable then it's personal


----------



## Ripper2860

Well, I guess mine is just hot enough and no hotter than it needs to be BECAUSE IT SOUNDS AWESOME.  I feel ya about the volume knob.  That was an issue for me, but no more.


----------



## jonathan c

Ripper2860 said:


> Well, I guess mine is just hot enough and no hotter than it needs to be BECAUSE IT SOUNDS AWESOME.  I feel ya about the volume knob.  That was an issue for me, but no more.


Did you remove the volume knob? 😆


----------



## Lvivske

Ripper2860 said:


> Well, I guess mine is just hot enough and no hotter than it needs to be BECAUSE IT SOUNDS AWESOME.  I feel ya about the volume knob.  That was an issue for me, but no more.



mostly just concerned I was flying too close to the sun


----------



## Ripper2860

jonathan c said:


> Did you remove the volume knob? 😆


----------



## regaet

This works well for me.                         https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00G05A2MU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Lvivske

regaet said:


> This works well for me.                         https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00G05A2MU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


I was thinking of attaching a water pump to my case


----------



## regaet

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08ZDQM6G...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=


----------



## MacMan31

regaet said:


> This works well for me.                         https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00G05A2MU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1



I have one of those fans on my Marantz HD-DAC1. That thing gets surprisingly warm. Would this fan fit nicely on top of the Valhalla 2? Where can I find tube risers?


----------



## Lvivske (Aug 4, 2021)

regaet said:


> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08ZDQM6G...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=



I use one of those as a bidet, which, yes, is also part of my audio setup (re: end game)


----------



## jonathan c (Aug 4, 2021)

.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Lvivske said:


> Bored so tried risers under the adapters today, was curious if it would help with heat or how wacky it could look >< (Is there a level where I should actually be concerned about the unit being too hot?)


Not really. My MJ2 runs really hot as well. Upwards of 110° on the thermal gun. 
I suppose if it's hot to the point where you can't physically touch it longer than say 10 seconds. That wouldn't seem normal to me.


----------



## jonathan c

~ Just a quick note to say that I am _really _enjoying my Sennheiser HD600 (Custom Cans UK mod) via the Schiit Valhalla II.
~ Also, to examine Ripper’s OCD about front tubes being taller than rear tubes, I put the 6N6Ps in Tubemonger socket savers. Rear tube height > front tube height.
~ There is a benefit from this (besides Ripper relief!). The Valhalla II seems to run cooler.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

Lvivske said:


> I was thinking of attaching a water pump to my case


Just remember:  water + high voltage = excitement!


----------



## Lvivske

GumbyDammit223 said:


> Just remember:  water + high voltage = excitement!



_If you don't look like this then don't talk to me about the endgame_


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 5, 2021)

You could always immerse your VH2 in a tank of non-conductive mineral oil or one of the new dielectric coolants..


----------



## G0rt

My Valhalla2, with bottles elevated, isn't just warm, it's Friendly. 🤗


----------



## GumbyDammit223

Ripper2860 said:


> You could always immerse you VH2 in a tank of non-conductive mineral oil or one of the new dielectric coolants..


Nah, go old skool and stop by your local power company's storage lot of old pole pigs and siphon off a couple gallons of old pcb-laden transformer oil.  It's vintage!


----------



## jonathan c

Lineup for today…:


----------



## jonathan c

Lvivske said:


> I use one of those as a bidet, which, yes, is also part of my audio setup (re:  _rear _end game)


FTFY…[Reg. TM; © bcowen: 2021]


----------



## jonathan c

GumbyDammit223 said:


> Nah, go old skool and stop by your local power company's storage lot of old pole pigs and siphon off a couple gallons of old pcb-laden transformer oil.  It's vintage!


If one is really old school, any of the leftover pcb-oil can be used to fill the pivot pots for tonearms such as the unipivot JH Hancock or the Mayware Formula IV….


----------



## MacMan31

jonathan c said:


> ~ Just a quick note to say that I am _really _enjoying my Sennheiser HD600 (Custom Cans UK mod) via the Schiit Valhalla II.
> ~ Also, to examine Ripper’s OCD about front tubes being taller than rear tubes, I put the 6N6Ps in Tubemonger socket savers. Rear tube height > front tube height.
> ~ There is a benefit from this (besides Ripper relief!). The Valhalla II seems to run cooler.



That's quite the impressive stack you have. What cable are you using with the HD600? 

I just received my Valhalla 2. A few days earlier than anticipated. Tried it with the stock tubes and now trying it with the aftermarket tubes. To be honest I don't notice a big difference between them. The amp does get quite toasty. For now I am just using the DAC in my MacBook Pro. But tomorrow or Saturday I will change to the DAC in my Marantz HD-DAC1. Right now it's connected to my two channel stereo setup and I don't feel like unplugging everything. Given how short the front tubes are it was pretty annoying to swap the tubes. So I will be looking for some tube risers/socket savers.


----------



## jonathan c

The blue cable is an ultra-low capacitance one from Custom Cans UK. It accompanied the HD-600 that I ordered _with _a Custom Cans CNC-milled backweight for the earspeaker drivers.


----------



## exchez

MacMan31 said:


> That's quite the impressive stack you have. What cable are you using with the HD600?
> 
> I just received my Valhalla 2. A few days earlier than anticipated. Tried it with the stock tubes and now trying it with the aftermarket tubes. To be honest I don't notice a big difference between them. The amp does get quite toasty. For now I am just using the DAC in my MacBook Pro. But tomorrow or Saturday I will change to the DAC in my Marantz HD-DAC1. Right now it's connected to my two channel stereo setup and I don't feel like unplugging everything. Given how short the front tubes are it was pretty annoying to swap the tubes. So I will be looking for some tube risers/socket savers.


I could never hear much of a difference between tubes in my Valhalla 2 and I think that's by design. It's a no-fuss OTL tube amp made to sound good with whatever you throw in it and I really like that. I can't pull that crap with my WA2. It seems to have a different sound for every combo of driver, power and rectifier you use.


----------



## MacMan31

jonathan c said:


> The blue cable is an ultra-low capacitance one from Custom Cans UK. It accompanied the HD-600 that I ordered _with _a Custom Cans CNC-milled backweight for the earspeaker drivers.



So how is that different than a normal HD600?


----------



## MacMan31

exchez said:


> I could never hear much of a difference between tubes in my Valhalla 2 and I think that's by design. It's a no-fuss OTL tube amp made to sound good with whatever you throw in it and I really like that. I can't pull that crap with my WA2. It seems to have a different sound for every combo of driver, power and rectifier you use.



Well if every tube combination sounds essentially the same there's no point in "tube rolling". I guess that can be seen as a good thing financially speaking.


----------



## jonathan c

MacMan31 said:


> So how is that different than a normal HD600?


In terms of sound, the bass extends a little deeper without any “bump” in the response. Bass/midbass transients are clearer, as is the midrange (the Sennheiser hallmark) and lower treble. There is no peakiness in the upper treble.


----------



## jonathan c

exchez said:


> I could never hear much of a difference between tubes in my Valhalla 2 and I think that's by design. It's a no-fuss OTL tube amp made to sound good with whatever you throw in it and I really like that. I can't pull that crap with my WA2. It seems to have a different sound for every combo of driver, power and rectifier you use.


A case of your ‘earage’ may vary. With the Valhalla II, the difference between, say, a Philips BEL E88CC (a 6922 type) and a Brimar CV455 KB/FB 1956 (a 12AT7 type) with adapters is clear.


----------



## exchez

jonathan c said:


> A case of your ‘earage’ may vary. With the Valhalla II, the difference between, say, a Philips BEL E88CC (a 6922 type) and a Brimar CV455 KB/FB 1956 (a 12AT7 type) with adapters is clear.


The caveat to my judgement is that I've only rolled 6DJ8 tubes. Is the voltage of the 12AT7 the main factor that makes it sound different from other 6DJ8s?


----------



## jonathan c (Aug 19, 2021)

exchez said:


> The caveat to my judgement is that I've only rolled 6DJ8 tubes. Is the voltage of the 12AT7 the main factor that makes it sound different from other 6DJ8s?


~ That is part of it. The 12-volt characteristic of the 12AT7 necessitates the use of the 12A*7 (top) -> 6DJ8 (bottom) adapter. Also, internal construction features of a particular 12AT7 tube affect the sound: triple mica vs double mica, D-getter / square getter vs halo getter.
~ My experience with hpa that ‘natively’ use 6DJ8 / 6922 type of tubes (Monoprice Liquid Platinum, Schiit Audio Mjolnir II, Schiit Audio Valhalla II, Woo Audio WA3: all of which I own) is that sonic performance improves in many parameters when a 12A*7 is used.


----------



## MacMan31

Well I would like to try some other tubes. I do think I prefer a more "warm" or "analog" sound. Also looking for some adapters and socket savers.


----------



## Jbucla2005

I found this site online which says you can use 7119 tubes with adaptors. Is this accurate info?

https://cheaptubeaudio.blogspot.com/2020/08/schiit-valhalla-2-as-preamp-tube.html?m=1


----------



## JollyGreen

Hello all, just picked up two new pairs of tubes for my Valhalla 2 (and just picked up a Modius DAC VERY happy with it).

Out of these two pairs, which do you guys like best.

I have some
Electro-Harmonix 6922 matched pair​
AND

Genalex Gold Lion 6922 (E88CC) matched pair​
The EH are around 20 a tube and the Lions are around 45 a tube. Has anyone had any experience with these?

Also, I know that you can't "roll" the power tubes in the valhalla 2, but does anyone know any other cool brands of that size, and how much does the power tube contribute to the overall sound?


----------



## exchez

jonathan c said:


> ~ That is part of it. The 12-volt characteristic of the 12AT7 necessitates the use of the 12A*7 (top) -> 6DJ8 (bottom) adapter. Also, internal construction features of a particular 12AT7 tube affect the sound: triple mica vs double mica, D-getter / square getter vs halo getter.
> ~ My experience with hpa that ‘natively’ use 6DJ8 / 6922 type of tubes (Monoprice Liquid Platinum, Schiit Audio Mjolnir II, Schiit Audio Valhalla II, Woo Audio WA3: all of which I own) is that sonic performance improves in many parameters when a 12A*7 is used. In short, the best 12A*7 type > the best 6922 type.





JollyGreen said:


> Hello all, just picked up two new pairs of tubes for my Valhalla 2 (and just picked up a Modius DAC VERY happy with it).
> 
> Out of these two pairs, which do you guys like best.
> 
> ...


According to Jim McShane the gold lion's start to sound pretty decent after a week of burn in, but I still prefer NOS tubes by a long shot. A good NOS power tube will add a bit to the dynamic range but not really change the overall sound, IMO. The 6N6P is/was only made in Russia and has no equivalents that I know of.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I seriously recommend not wasting money on new production tubes when you can get way better nos tubes for a few more dollars.


----------



## JollyGreen

Guidostrunk said:


> I seriously recommend not wasting money on new production tubes when you can get way better nos tubes for a few more dollars.


Do you have recommendations for the 6922 (6N1P) slot? I'm up for trying anything, this is my first tube amp, and I know very little about the hobby so far. I'm enjoying it though.


----------



## Guidostrunk

JollyGreen said:


> Do you have recommendations for the 6922 (6N1P) slot? I'm up for trying anything, this is my first tube amp, and I know very little about the hobby so far. I'm enjoying it though.


Grab a pair of these first.
https://pulsetubestore.com/products...uction-base-9-pin-b9a-noval-not-made-in-china

I have a pair of O getter Brimar CV4033 Footscray triple mica that I'll let go for an insane price. PM me if you're interested.


----------



## hodgjy

JollyGreen said:


> Do you have recommendations for the 6922 (6N1P) slot? I'm up for trying anything, this is my first tube amp, and I know very little about the hobby so far. I'm enjoying it though.


I don't have a Valhalla anymore (I had the 1 years ago), but I follow this thread to get ideas for rolling my in Vali 2+. I have the opinion that the 6922/6DJ8/E88CC is a deeply flawed family of tubes. The treble is splashy and the bass is weak. Plus, many of them are extremely microphonic. You need a holy grail that costs three figures to get it right.

In the Vali 2+, the Voskhod rocket 6N1P-EV is the best by far. Good warmth, texture, layering, and timbre.

Which 6N1P came with your Valhalla? Most of the others are brighter and more aggressive than the Voskhod.


----------



## JollyGreen

Guidostrunk said:


> Grab a pair of these first.
> https://pulsetubestore.com/products/12axx-to-ecc88-adapter-plug-play-novib-©-1960s-nos-british-mcmurdo-phenolic-socket-on-top-plus-vibration-reduction-base-9-pin-b9a-noval-not-made-in-china
> 
> I have a pair of O getter Brimar CV4033 Footscray triple mica that I'll let go for an insane price. PM me if you're interested.


You guys can confirm that using an adapter works without creating any hardware or power issues with the Valhalla 2 amp?


----------



## JollyGreen

hodgjy said:


> I don't have a Valhalla anymore (I had the 1 years ago), but I follow this thread to get ideas for rolling my in Vali 2+. I have the opinion that the 6922/6DJ8/E88CC is a deeply flawed family of tubes. The treble is splashy and the bass is weak. Plus, many of them are extremely microphonic. You need a holy grail that costs three figures to get it right.
> 
> In the Vali 2+, the Voskhod rocket 6N1P-EV is the best by far. Good warmth, texture, layering, and timbre.
> 
> Which 6N1P came with your Valhalla? Most of the others are brighter and more aggressive than the Voskhod.


The ones that came with the amp have the same symbol as the link you posted and also have a pentagon with CCCP in it on them.


----------



## hodgjy

JollyGreen said:


> The ones that came with the amp have the same symbol as the link you posted and also have a pentagon with CCCP in it on them.


I'm confused because I didn't post a link.

I think your 6N1P are from the Novosibirsk factory, which aren't as good as the Voskhod. The differences aren't huge, though. If you don't like the 6N1P to begin with, rolling another one won't help much. But if you're just itching to roll for rolling sake, you can do a lot worse than the 6N1P. I agree with what as said earlier--avoid new production tubes if you can. They can sound almost as good, but they just don't have the reliability as NOS.


----------



## MacMan31

hodgjy said:


> I don't have a Valhalla anymore (I had the 1 years ago), but I follow this thread to get ideas for rolling my in Vali 2+. I have the opinion that the 6922/6DJ8/E88CC is a deeply flawed family of tubes. The treble is splashy and the bass is weak. Plus, many of them are extremely microphonic. You need a holy grail that costs three figures to get it right.
> 
> In the Vali 2+, the Voskhod rocket 6N1P-EV is the best by far. Good warmth, texture, layering, and timbre.
> 
> Which 6N1P came with your Valhalla? Most of the others are brighter and more aggressive than the Voskhod.



I'm not hearing any of that splashy treble or weak bass you speak of. But I just looked up that tube you mentioned. I believe it's in this list here. https://valvesnmore.com/?product=6fj8-tubes. I see the Vali 2+ is cheaper than the Valhalla 2. Wouldn't the Valhalla 2 be an overall better amp?


----------



## hodgjy

MacMan31 said:


> Wouldn't the Valhalla 2 be an overall better amp?


Based on my ears and headphones, no. But we all have different preferences. They are totally different designs with different intentions.


----------



## JollyGreen

hodgjy said:


> I'm confused because I didn't post a link.
> 
> I think your 6N1P are from the Novosibirsk factory, which aren't as good as the Voskhod. The differences aren't huge, though. If you don't like the 6N1P to begin with, rolling another one won't help much. But if you're just itching to roll for rolling sake, you can do a lot worse than the 6N1P. I agree with what as said earlier--avoid new production tubes if you can. They can sound almost as good, but they just don't have the reliability as NOS.


Sorry, I meant the Voskhod rocket 6N1P-EV . I looked them up, they look the same.


----------



## hodgjy

JollyGreen said:


> Sorry, I meant the Voskhod rocket 6N1P-EV . I looked them up, they look the same.


One maker has a pentagon and the other maker has the rocket logo. The rocket logo is the better tube, but not by much.


----------



## MacMan31

hodgjy said:


> Based on my ears and headphones, no. But we all have different preferences. They are totally different designs with different intentions.



True. The Vali 2+ is a hybrid amp. Perhaps I'll look into that one.


----------



## Guidostrunk

JollyGreen said:


> You guys can confirm that using an adapter works without creating any hardware or power issues with the Valhalla 2 amp?


I'm sure @jonathan c  will chime in at some point. I wouldn't have recommended what I did if it didn't work. Lol


----------



## Guidostrunk

hodgjy said:


> I don't have a Valhalla anymore (I had the 1 years ago), but I follow this thread to get ideas for rolling my in Vali 2+. I have the opinion that the 6922/6DJ8/E88CC is a deeply flawed family of tubes. The treble is splashy and the bass is weak. Plus, many of them are extremely microphonic. You need a holy grail that costs three figures to get it right.
> 
> In the Vali 2+, the Voskhod rocket 6N1P-EV is the best by far. Good warmth, texture, layering, and timbre.
> 
> Which 6N1P came with your Valhalla? Most of the others are brighter and more aggressive than the Voskhod.


3 figures can be $100 or $999 lol. For around $160 you can end your search quite quickly. Everything beyond is miniscule preference.


----------



## JollyGreen

Guidostrunk said:


> 3 figures can be $100 or $999 lol. For around $160 you can end your search quite quickly. Everything beyond is miniscule preference.


So from what i'm hearing it may be best to roll other tubes with an adapter than to stick with the stock setup in the Valhalla 2? I'm not complaining about the sound currently, I'm enjoying it actually. I don't know about tube break-in, the stock Russian tubes that came with it sounded good, these Golden Lions also sound ok, I'm a little underwhelmed, they may just need to be broken in. I was enjoying my Electro-Harmonix as well but seemed to have less low end than the Golden Lions do. Lions just sound a little murky or like they have a thin blanket thrown over them. Again, I don't understand break-in, so it may be a break-in issue. 

Not to sound facetious here, but is there a reason people keep recommending "old stock" tubes from the 50s and seem to hate new tubes? Is this based in statistics, build quality, QC issues, or is this just a bane for anything new because people seems to think "older is better" for no real reason? lol


----------



## hodgjy

JollyGreen said:


> So from what i'm hearing it may be best to roll other tubes with an adapter than to stick with the stock setup in the Valhalla 2? I'm not complaining about the sound currently, I'm enjoying it actually. I don't know about tube break-in, the stock Russian tubes that came with it sounded good, these Golden Lions also sound ok, I'm a little underwhelmed, they may just need to be broken in. I was enjoying my Electro-Harmonix as well but seemed to have less low end than the Golden Lions do. Lions just sound a little murky or like they have a thin blanket thrown over them. Again, I don't understand break-in, so it may be a break-in issue.
> 
> Not to sound facetious here, but is there a reason people keep recommending "old stock" tubes from the 50s and seem to hate new tubes? Is this based in statistics, build quality, QC issues, or is this just a bane for anything new because people seems to think "older is better" for no real reason? lol


There's many hypotheses I've read about why NOS sound better than new production.
1) It's all placebo and snobbery.
2) They didn't have the same environmental laws back then so they could use different materials and processes.
3) Tube making was a career. A worker could work 30+ years as a tube maker and had it down to a perfected science. A master crafter.
4) More urgency back then. A poor tube back then could crash a plane or miss an enemy bogey on radar, but a bad tube today means someone's bass guitar has a bit more distortion at a Saturday night gig. 

I really think there's some truth in there, though. Different materials and master crafters could make for more reliable tubes. 

As far as tube burn in, as usual, there's some truth there but also a lot of legend/myth. Tubes do need a little time to burn off trace gases and any impurities from the manufacturing process. This can change the sound and reduce some noise and humming. But I don't think burn in drastically changes the sound of the tube, and even if it did, why do people always think it sounds better? I think tubes stabilize in a few hours at most, and any drastic changes in sound is brain burn in.


----------



## Lvivske

Am I crazy for wanting to introduce a pre-amp to the chain?


----------



## jonathan c (Aug 9, 2021)

JollyGreen said:


> You guys can confirm that using an adapter works without creating any hardware or power issues with the Valhalla 2 amp?


~ The adapters recommended by Guidostrunk are fine. The adapters in effect “rewire” a 12-volt tube for use in a 6-volt circuit.
~ Another consideration is the ‘filament (heater) current’ draw of the tube. For a 12A*7 tube in a Valhalla II, you should be OK.
~ I use the Pulse Tube / Tubemonger adapters with the Brimar CV455 KB/FB (Footscray 1956). Result:  🎵🎼🎵…😄


----------



## Lvivske

we're all using em, I think we'd be dropping like flies if there was an issue


----------



## jonathan c

Lvivske said:


> Am I crazy for wanting to introduce a pre-amp to the chain?


Which preamp, which chain?


----------



## Lvivske

jonathan c said:


> Which preamp, which chain?



i dunno yet / before the valhalla


----------



## jonathan c

Lvivske said:


> i dunno yet / before the valhalla


I thought that you might be thinking ‘Valhalla as preamp, Jotunheim as amp’ [keeping things in the Schiitdom and synthesising a Mjolnir II…]


----------



## Lvivske

jonathan c said:


> I thought that you might be thinking ‘Valhalla as preamp, Jotunheim as amp’ [keeping things in the Schiitdom and synthesising a Mjolnir II…]



valhalla 1 has no out, so would need to be a SAGA+ pre, or Asgard/Jot/Lyr

(or Rebel amp or Flux since I've been eyballing them as a solid state option, but they wouldnt match the schiitscape I have going on my desk)


----------



## jonathan c

hodgjy said:


> I don't have a Valhalla anymore (I had the 1 years ago), but I follow this thread to get ideas for rolling my in Vali 2+. I have the opinion that the 6922/6DJ8/E88CC is a deeply flawed family of tubes. The treble is splashy and the bass is weak. Plus, many of them are extremely microphonic. You need a holy grail that costs three figures to get it right.


~ You have an opinion and everyone is entitled to _my_ opinion (😆🤪). Anyway, I cannot dismiss the _entirety _of a tube class. There are strong and weak members in each class.
~ The tubes that I have used, still use, or roll (in the Mjolnir II, the Valhalla II, and Woo Audio WA3) of the 6922 type include: 7308 Sylvania (green print), 7308 Amperex PQ (orange), CV2492 Brimar, E88CC Philips BEL (Holland design/made in Bangladesh)…
~ These, to my ears, are musically coherent and convincing, not bass-weak, not treble-splashy, not microphonic.
~ The tried-n-true disclaimer of all HF threads: your ‘earage’ may vary.


----------



## jonathan c

Lvivske said:


> valhalla 1 has no out, so would need to be a SAGA+ pre, or Asgard/Jot/Lyr
> 
> (or Rebel amp or Flux since I've been eyballing them as a solid state option, but they wouldnt match the schiitscape I have going on my desk)


Valhalla II?:


----------



## Lvivske

jonathan c said:


> Valhalla II?:



That is indeed a Valhalla 2 you have there


----------



## jonathan c

Lvivske said:


> valhalla 1 has no out, so would need to be a SAGA+ pre, or Asgard/Jot/Lyr
> 
> (or Rebel amp or Flux since I've been eyballing them as a solid state option, but they wouldnt match the schiitscape I have going on my desk)


~ FYI, I have ordered a Flux Lab Acoustics FA-22…will definitely compare it to Valhalla II, Mjolnir II, Linear Tube Audio MZ3, Violectric V280…(it’s a tough job but bring it on! 🤪)


----------



## jonathan c

Lvivske said:


> That is indeed a Valhalla 2 you have there


I mean that a Valhalla II, with its outs, could be a preamp.


----------



## Lvivske (Aug 9, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> ~ FYI, I have ordered a Flux Lab Acoustics FA-22…will definitely compare it to Valhalla II, Mjolnir II, Linear Tube Audio MZ3, Violectric V280…(it’s a tough job but bring it on! 🤪)



That MZ3 tho...

if you ever plug one of them in before the valhalla as a pre stage, lemme know your thoughts



jonathan c said:


> I mean that a Valhalla II, with its outs, could be a preamp.



Could be but not an option (unless you're saying I should buy a second Valhalla so I can Val my Halla while my Valhalla Halvallas


----------



## hodgjy

jonathan c said:


> ~ You have an opinion and everyone is entitled to _my_ opinion (😆🤪). Anyway, I cannot dismiss the _entirety _of a tube class. There are strong and weak members in each class.
> ~ The tubes that I have used, still use, or roll (in the Mjolnir II, the Valhalla II, and Woo Audio WA3) of the 6922 type include: 7308 Sylvania (green print), 7308 Amperex PQ (orange), CV2492 Brimar, E88CC Philips BEL (Holland design/made in Bangladesh)…
> ~ These, to my ears, are musically coherent and convincing, not bass-weak, not treble-splashy, not microphonic.
> ~ The tried-n-true disclaimer of all HF threads: your ‘earage’ may vary.


Fair enough, blanket statements have problems.

But, if we're debating semantics, I'd say the 7308 isn't a 6DJ8/6922 because it has a slightly higher heater current, and that can change the sonics.

Also, I should clarify.....I generally dislike this family of tubes that aren't super expensive. The ones you can get for < $100 US are usually quite bland, flat, and a bit bright with splashy treble. The exotics from Europe tend to be better, so we agree there.


----------



## exchez (Aug 9, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> ~ You have an opinion and everyone is entitled to _my_ opinion (😆🤪). Anyway, I cannot dismiss the _entirety _of a tube class. There are strong and weak members in each class.
> ~ The tubes that I have used, still use, or roll (in the Mjolnir II, the Valhalla II, and Woo Audio WA3) of the 6922 type include: 7308 Sylvania (green print), 7308 Amperex PQ (orange), CV2492 Brimar, E88CC Philips BEL (Holland design/made in Bangladesh)…
> ~ These, to my ears, are musically coherent and convincing, not bass-weak, not treble-splashy, not microphonic.
> ~ The tried-n-true disclaimer of all HF threads: your ‘earage’ may vary.


Any opinions on the 60's PQ 6922s made in the USA (white)? There seems to be a consensus that it's a pretty sweet tube.


----------



## jonathan c

exchez said:


> Any opinions on the 60's PQ 6922s made in the USA (white)? There seems to be a consensus that it's a pretty sweet tube.


I definitely like those...well balanced, good ambience retrieval, excellent detail, semi-sweet (in the chocolate sense) overall…I should have mentioned them…thank you for doing that.


----------



## jonathan c

hodgjy said:


> Fair enough, blanket statements have problems.


For fun (?🤨), ponder this as an exercise in pretzel logic (sorry, Steely Dan):

‘Generalisations are usually false’….


----------



## JollyGreen

I just wanted to say I'm really glad I found this forum, I've really enjoyed learning more about this hobby from experienced folks such as yourselves. Keep those recommendations coming for tubes, and nobody tell my wife I'm buying more crap hahahah


----------



## hodgjy

jonathan c said:


> For fun (?🤨), ponder this as an exercise in pretzel logic (sorry, Steely Dan):
> 
> ‘Generalisations are usually false’….


I'm right all the time 87% of the time.


----------



## jonathan c

hodgjy said:


> I'm right all the time 87% of the time.


🤨🧐😂👍


----------



## jonathan c

JollyGreen said:


> I just wanted to say I'm really glad I found this forum, I've really enjoyed learning more about this hobby from experienced folks such as yourselves. Keep those recommendations coming for tubes, and nobody tell my wife I'm buying more crap hahahah


If your wife says no more tubes, the answer is: ‘Honey, these are not tubes, they are pre solid-state.’ And, if you hanker for Schiit gear (for example), stress the educational value of being conversant in Norse mythology…😂…🤞…


----------



## Lvivske (Aug 11, 2021)

New experiment! Got the 6N6P-IR (Novosibirsk) output tubes, not much talk about this variation in years so I decided to take the plunge, others supposedly found them to be a great variation so we'll see

Will let them settle, then do a more direct A/B comparison with the Fotons w/ the CV455s in the other slot and see how things compare

let the burn in commence!

edit: head-fi thread for reference


----------



## Jbucla2005 (Aug 10, 2021)

I’m using 12AT7’s with adaptors and they sound great in my VH2. I also have some 7119 tubes I’d like to try. Will the 7119’s work with these adaptors?


----------



## JollyGreen

SO after a week or so of testing different tubes, (Genalex Gold lion ECC88 gold pins, stock Rocket 61NP (two sets), and my Electro-Harmonix 6922) I believe I like the sound of the Electro-Harmonix the most. Its the tube that gives me the most goosebumps when listening to ambient tunes. The trippy soundscapes of some Carbon Based Lifeforms or some old Biosphere. Gives me the brain tingles much like old days on substances dancing around in dark rooms. (I'm sure there's an audiophile term for those brain tingles? much like ASMR is supposed to do I think)

The others don't seem to give me that brain tingle sensation in the way that the Electro-Harmonix 6922 EH do. And they were half the cost of my $100 Gold Lions which sound like they have a blanket over the sound, a little muffled almost. Maybe they need burn in to open up?  

Anyway, just as an update the Rockets sound good, the Gold Lions sound muffled, and the EH sound superb for my ear (and the brain tickles  )


----------



## Jbucla2005 (Aug 10, 2021)

7119’s are working (with adaptors) and sound very clear and good!

I found an interesting blog about these tubes.

http://www.jacmusic.com/techcorner/ARTICLES/English/Portraits/E182CC/index-E182CC.htm


----------



## john2000

After tube rolling a bit I have found the gold lion my least favorite and GE my favorite


----------



## exchez

john2000 said:


> After tube rolling a bit I have found the gold lion my least favorite and GE my favorite


I really like the GE 6DJ8 as well. I find them better than some Heerlen Amperex's which can be fatiguing. I have a matched pair of GE 8771's and normal 6DJ8's to sell if anyone's interested.

More the 8771's from BJR: "_A very scarce and very good version of the USA made 6DJ8, probably the best contender against the European brands.  Made for exacting industrial and military applications, this is a great audio performer at a lower-than-European price.  A very nice, internally RF shielded 6DJ8, 1960s vintage.  Best performance for the price at a budget level, this may be the tube to pick if you are confused by all the various brands but want to try a NOS tube!"_

IMO, I like the normal 6DJ8 a little better.


----------



## jonathan c

How do you feel about the Amperex (labeled ‘made in Holland’) 6DJ8? I think that it is well-balanced, articulate, presents acoustics very well. A nice driver tube for the Valhalla II.


----------



## Lvivske (Aug 12, 2021)

Okay with 40+ hours on the 6N6P-Injured Reserve I decided to do a quick thoughts

With my EQ settings from the Fotons: I found with the IRs it might have been more of a V shaped profile, I found sometimes vocals were a bit soft (there was this once Prince song in my rotation where I was like, What is he even saying? And had to boost the 1khz band from -1db to +0.4db, toned down the highs as well and if there was more bass I might have just been okay with it.

With no EQ: I only tested 1 track, Turbo Lover by Judas Priest. Really not a fan of my setup at all with no EQs enabled, bleh, but it's a song I've heard a million times. With the Fotons/Brimars I wrote down 'nasally', 'no bass', 'sharp syllables', and on higher volumes it was giving me brain freeze (damn these HD800s, sharp bastards). Hot swapped to the IRs and I think it has better natural bass (still light, but not devoid of it), wasnt getting the nasally brain freeze effect in my forehead (confirming the upper mids dip?). So naturally I think it pairs better with the other components, I could actually listen on medium volume and live with it.

Do I like them better than Fotons with EQs enabled? Jury still out. Hard to make a call without being able to A/B test immediately, and since each has a different inherent sound curve that gets in the way


----------



## jonathan c

~ With curiosity beckoning, I have begun a rolling expedition on the driver tubes for the Valhalla II. The NEVZ 6N6Ps will stay in place.
~ Substituting for the Brimar CV455s are Valvo ECC81s. Very nice! Airy, detailed, extended, not strident. Matches the NEVZ well. [Listening has been done via Focal Clear (original generation)]. The Valvos can stay a while.


----------



## _js_

Ok, so, I have a quick question:

How would you remove a 12Axx to ECC88 adapter (or socket saver) from the V2 once you’ve installed it?


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 12, 2021)

Carefully.  😀


OK, seriously.  When I've been in a situation where the adapter stays after removing a tube, I use needle nose plyer with electrical tape wrapped around the ends  of the plyer tips.  Rock it back and forth til it loosens up and then lift it out.

BTW - I've found my Chinese adapters have a death grip on the tube and typically come out with the tube.


----------



## jonathan c

_js_ said:


> Ok, so, I have a quick question:
> 
> How would you remove a 12Axx to ECC88 adapter (or socket saver) from the V2 once you’ve installed it?


If the tube fits tightly into the adapter, when you pull the tube upwards gradually (and sometimes with a _very slight_ rocking motion) the adapter should come out while still joined to the tube.


----------



## jonathan c

Ripper2860 said:


> Carefully.  😀
> 
> 
> OK, seriously.  When I've been in a situation where the adapter stays after removing a tube, I use needle nose plyer with electrical tape wrapped around the ends  of the plyer tips.  Rock it back and forth til it loosens up and then lift it out.
> ...


Absolutely right on the last part!


----------



## _js_

Thanks for the quick replies!  I have the Pulse phenolic not-made-in-china adapters as well as the socket savers, so hopefully no death grip!

But, backing up, I have to say . . . Oh. My. God.  Am I loving the Valhalla 2!  Just with the stock tubes!  I . . . don’t really have words . . . the music is so enjoyable and, yes, “holographic” and so NON-fatiguing!  I can listen for hours! I’ll start a song just to see how it will sound and then I don’t want to stop!

I had always shied away from tube amps because I didn’t like the notion that they “colored” the sound, and also, that you had to spend so much money to get good tubes, and that they don’t last very long (compared to solid state anyway), but recently I’ve been trying to find some setup that would make me love music again—like really love it.  Like I have in the past with other setups.

And I figured what the heck, I’ll give a full OTL tube amp a try.

And . . . wow.  Just wow.

And I don’t think what I’m hearing is “colored”!  It seems . . . REAL!  It feels more like live music to me!  And isn’t that a sign that it must somehow actually be more faithful in reproduction than a amp that measures better but lacks that?

I honestly don’t know but I do know that I look forward to listening to music every night now that I have my V2 and HD6xx’s (BF1 mulitbit source)

I don’t feel that way with my Asgard 2 and Audeze LCD2’s (as much as I do love them).

and so far, I don’t feel that way with my work rig, which is a Denafrips Ares II, Asgard 2, and LCD-XC 20201 carbons.  But I’m giving that some time.  We shall see.

Really glad I found this thread!  V2 is so great!

Have some Brimar CV455’s here now (from Langrex) and some CV4033’s (from a forum member) on the way.  Looking forward to trying those soon!  But I wanted to know how hard it would be to go back if I needed / wanted to.

Thanks again!


----------



## Lvivske

Ripper2860 said:


> I use needle nose plyer with electrical tape wrapped around the ends  of the plyer tips.



I hear you should turn it off first but there's nothing in the manual


----------



## jonathan c

_js_ said:


> Thanks for the quick replies!  I have the Pulse phenolic not-made-in-china adapters as well as the socket savers, so hopefully no death grip!
> 
> But, backing up, I have to say . . . Oh. My. God.  Am I loving the Valhalla 2!  Just with the stock tubes!  I . . . don’t really have words . . . the music is so enjoyable and, yes, “holographic” and so NON-fatiguing!  I can listen for hours! I’ll start a song just to see how it will sound and then I don’t want to stop!
> 
> ...


~ You will love the Brimar CV455 / CV4033 tubes. I rotate them in my Valhalla II and three other tube h/p/a. They are (among) the best in the 12AT7 category. You will find the Valhalla II even more musically convincing with them.
~ An outstanding attribute, among many, of the Valhalla II is its ability to drive various low impedance headphones: unlike a prototypical OTL h/p/a. I have enjoyed my Audeze LCD-X (at 20 ohms stated impedance) immensely with Valhalla II, for example. No impedance mismatch driven frequency response aberrations here!
~ If you become curious about headphones that happen to be ‘low-Z’, at least the door is not shut by Valhalla II.


----------



## Ripper2860

Lvivske said:


> I hear you should turn it off first but there's nothing in the manual


That's why I wrap the tips of the plyers in electrical tape.  I hate to turn it off after it's finally gotten nice and warmed up.


----------



## Ripper2860

_js_ said:


> Thanks for the quick replies!  I have the Pulse phenolic not-made-in-china adapters as well as the socket savers, so hopefully no death grip!
> 
> But, backing up, I have to say . . . Oh. My. God.  Am I loving the Valhalla 2!  Just with the stock tubes!  I . . . don’t really have words . . . the music is so enjoyable and, yes, “holographic” and so NON-fatiguing!  I can listen for hours! I’ll start a song just to see how it will sound and then I don’t want to stop!
> 
> ...


Welcome...


...to your new addiction!  

VH2 is a great piece of gear.  It punches well above its price-class and only gets better with the right tubes -- and you've gotten the right ones w/ the 4033s and CV455s.


----------



## _js_

Ripper2860 said:


> That's why I wrap the tips of the plyers in electrical tape.  I hate to turn it off after it's finally gotten nice and warmed up.



Um, definitely turn this off before sticking pliers inside it!  There are some seriously high voltages inside!  And not just while it’s plugged in but for awhile afterwards, stored in the caps.  Turn off, unplug, wait until white light goes away, and then and only then change tubes or adapters.  This is what the manual says and everyone should listen!




jonathan c said:


> ~ You will love the Brimar CV455 / CV4033 tubes. I rotate them in my Valhalla II and three other tube h/p/a. They are (among) the best in the 12AT7 category. You will find the Valhalla II even more musically convincing with them.
> ~ An outstanding attribute, among many, of the Valhalla II is its ability to drive various low impedance headphones: unlike a prototypical OTL h/p/a. I have enjoyed my Audeze LCD-X (at 20 ohms stated impedance) immensely with Valhalla II, for example. No impedance mismatch driven frequency response aberrations here!
> ~ If you become curious about headphones that happen to be ‘low-Z’, at least the door is not shut by Valhalla II.



I tried the LCD-XC’s with it on low gain but didn’t love that pairing.  I do like it on low gain with my Sony MDR-7506’s, though!  And also my Ety ER-4S’s.  Wish I still had my Grado RS-2e’s to try with the V2.  But alas I do not.

Interested in the ZMF Atticus as I read that it has great synergy with the V2.  I’m definitely a believer in synergy.  Can’t explain it but I’ve experienced it many times.


----------



## Lvivske

_js_ said:


> Am I loving the Valhalla 2!  Just with the stock tubes!  I . . . don’t really have words . . . the music is so enjoyable and, yes, “holographic” and so NON-fatiguing!  I can listen for hours! I’ll start a song just to see how it will sound and then I don’t want to stop!



I'm so jealous reading this  stock!? happy!?


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 13, 2021)

_js_ said:


> Um, definitely turn this off before sticking pliers inside it! There are some seriously high voltages inside! And not just while it’s plugged in but for awhile afterwards, stored in the caps. Turn off, unplug, wait until white light goes away, and then and only then change tubes or adapters. This is what the manual says and everyone should listen!


OK.  I was KIDDING in my response to @Lvivske !!   

The only knock I have against my VH2 is that it literally takes 40+ minutes for my power light to fully go out after powering off -- even with the AC cord unplugged.


----------



## jonathan c

Ripper2860 said:


> OK.  I was KIDDING in my response to @Lvivske !!
> 
> The only knock I have against my VH2 is that it literally takes 40+ minutes for my power light to fully go out after powering off -- even with the AC cord unplugged.


Probably due to the capacitors draining. If @ksorota could perform the capacitor modifications on the Valhalla II (little room to work with), think of how long the white light would stay on after powering off…😒…


----------



## Lvivske

Ripper2860 said:


> The only knock I have against my VH2 is that it literally takes 40+ minutes for my power light to fully go out after powering off -- even with the AC cord unplugged.



crank the volume and let it play for a min, tucker itself out in a snap


----------



## _js_

Ripper2860 said:


> OK.  I was KIDDING in my response to @Lvivske !!
> 
> The only knock I have against my VH2 is that it literally takes 40+ minutes for my power light to fully go out after powering off -- even with the AC cord unplugged.


Oh good!  I wondered if you might be kidding!  Lol!  Good one!



Lvivske said:


> crank the volume and let it play for a min, tucker itself out in a snap



Good idea!  I’ll have to try it!


----------



## ksorota

_js_ said:


> Oh good!  I wondered if you might be kidding!  Lol!  Good one!
> 
> 
> 
> Good idea!  I’ll have to try it!



Cranking the volume might work, not likely though.  Like Jonathan said,  capacitors have to drain...even if the volume knob worked it does not seem worth the effort and potentially forgetting to turn it down afterwards. 

The MJ2 capacitors hold their charge for weeks...the light doesnt stay on, but those guys need to be manually drained prior to working on the board. On one I had opened that came from Schiit directly (1-week travel time) I measured 165 volts retained charge in the 250V capacitors.  In this case, cranking the volume has nothing to do with them draining.


----------



## Lvivske

ksorota said:


> Cranking the volume might work, not likely though.  Like Jonathan said,  capacitors have to drain...even if the volume knob worked it does not seem worth the effort and potentially forgetting to turn it down afterwards.
> 
> The MJ2 capacitors hold their charge for weeks...the light doesnt stay on, but those guys need to be manually drained prior to working on the board. On one I had opened that came from Schiit directly (1-week travel time) I measured 165 volts retained charge in the 250V capacitors.  In this case, cranking the volume has nothing to do with them draining.



but light go off


----------



## ksorota

Its an interesting topic of discussion.  My WA2 plays music for a solid 10-15 seconds after powering off, but the light turns off immediately.  The MJ2 is the same way.  

I remember old power amps slowly fading off after powering down.  

I am guessing it was a design choice and has more to do with keeping the circuit simple


----------



## Ripper2860

Lvivske said:


> but light go off


Problem solved.  I put a piece of electrical tape over the power LED.


----------



## Lvivske

testing for science

music kept going for around 20ish seconds, light staying on to spite me

3 to 4 minutes to go completely off


----------



## ksorota

Lvivske said:


> testing for science
> 
> music kept going for around 20ish seconds, light staying on to spite me
> 
> 3 to 4 minutes to go completely off


That likely means the amp is fully venting its pent up energy...good for the soul to relax between strenuous activities; so I think its a good thing!


----------



## hodgjy

Lvivske said:


> testing for science
> 
> music kept going for around 20ish seconds, light staying on to spite me
> 
> 3 to 4 minutes to go completely off


It all depends on where the LED is wired into the circuit. If it's before a cap, it'll probably go out immediately. If it's after a cap, it'll probably linger for a while.


----------



## FLTWS

That's normal, my 2 1/2 year old V2 has done that from day 1.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

_js_ said:


> Ok, so, I have a quick question:
> 
> How would you remove a 12Axx to ECC88 adapter (or socket saver) from the V2 once you’ve installed it?


I use a pair of serrated long-ish hemostatats....after powering down of course!


ksorota said:


> Its an interesting topic of discussion.  My WA2 plays music for a solid 10-15 seconds after powering off, but the light turns off immediately.  The MJ2 is the same way.
> 
> I remember old power amps slowly fading off after powering down.
> 
> I am guessing it was a design choice and has more to do with keeping the circuit simple


Pretend you're back in the 60's & 70's with tube TVs.  You can stare at the phosphor dot on the screen (LED) until you're hypnotized.


----------



## jonathan c

GumbyDammit223 said:


> I use a pair of serrated long-ish hemostatats....after powering down of course!
> 
> Pretend you're back in the 60's & 70's with tube TVs.  You can stare at the phosphor dot on the screen (LED) until you're hypnotized.


The “Outer Limits”:  ‘we control the horizontal, we control the vertical…”


----------



## _js_

So I tried driving the headphones after removing power, turned volume up, etc, and it seems to make no difference in how long the white led says on.  It’s very slowly dimming like normal.  It’s been over 15 minutes now and I’m guessing there’s another 15 or 20 to go before it is out.

And yes, the high voltage caps in an amp can and do hold their charge for a long time.  At Sonos in the hardware lab where I work, we have special discharge boxes to discharge these capacitors.  AMP and SUB have 400V rails and a fair amount of capacitance.  You do not want to get zapped by one of those caps!  I’ve not yet had that happen but one of the other engineers has and let’s just say it isn’t fun.

So I installed the adapters and my CV455’s and spent an hour or two listening and . . . is it possible I got really REALLY lucky with my stock tubes?

Or do I need to wait like 10 hours more before the CV455’s hit their stride?

Or is it possible I got unlucky with my CV455’s?

Because . . . so far, I think I prefer the stock tubes.  Sorry if this is insanity!!!  LOL!

Will try the CV4033’s tomorrow, I think.


----------



## regaet

More like 50 hrs before they really start hitting their stride and even get better after that. But then again we all have different ears, brains, and preferences. Not to mention the type of music you like to listen to and the rest of your system.


----------



## Ripper2860

If after 50 hours you still feel the same, you can turn your audiophile card in at the exit.   

Seriously -- give it 50 hours.  Preferences and synergy play a big part.  Plus, if the stock tubes were that horrible, I don't think Schiit would include them.


----------



## _js_

So one of my CV4033’s has a crackle / poor connection sound.  I cleaned the pins with an eraser and 91 percent iso and reseated, but no joy.  I also cleaned the adapters but I know it’s not them as the CV455’s were perfect.

Any suggestions?

Also, re: cleaning, I found the Tombow Mono Zero eraser pen/stylus to be the perfect tool for cleaning tube pins.

Oh, and to remove the adapter that didn’t come out with the tube, I cut two strips of blue painters tape and used a plastic spudger tool to adhere the ends to opposite sides of the adapter, then just grabbed each one and lifted and gently rocked back and forth and voila!  No metal, no excessive force or pressure on the adapter.

Ok.  50 hours!  Got it!  Hmmmm.


----------



## Lvivske

Ripper2860 said:


> Plus, if the stock tubes were that horrible, I don't think Schiit would include them.


if the price fits, i'm sure they would include anything


----------



## jonathan c

Lvivske said:


> if the price fits, i'm sure they would include anything


I have to side with ‘the Ripper’ on this one. Exploitation does not promote longevity…


----------



## JollyGreen

Hello all, 

Can anyone recommend a good brand of "pro" audio cables for my Sennheiser 6xx? Since we are all using the Valhalla here, you know I can't use balanced cables so please keep that in mind with your recommendations. I understand there is an element of "snake oil" with a lot of these cables, but I can afford to buy my little bits of peace of mind


----------



## hodgjy

JollyGreen said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Can anyone recommend a good brand of "pro" audio cables for my Sennheiser 6xx? Since we are all using the Valhalla here, you know I can't use balanced cables so please keep that in mind with your recommendations. I understand there is an element of "snake oil" with a lot of these cables, but I can afford to buy my little bits of peace of mind


I’ve used c3audio.com (formerly called Charleston Cable Company) and they’re top notch.


----------



## JollyGreen

hodgjy said:


> I’ve used c3audio.com (formerly called Charleston Cable Company) and they’re top notch.


Thanks, their UPOCC (Ultra Pure Ohno Cast Copper) look nice! I may check those out.


----------



## regaet (Aug 15, 2021)

Oops


----------



## Guidostrunk

regaet said:


> Wywires has good reviews, a 40% off sale, and a 30-day trial.                                                                                                                                             https://wywires.com/collections/wywires-heaphone-cables/products/headphone-cables-red


Is that off the advertised price on the site?


----------



## regaet (Aug 15, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Is that off the advertised price on the site?


Yes, they apply the discount in the cart. I bought the Platinum to try and I'm keeping them.


----------



## regaet

JollyGreen said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Can anyone recommend a good brand of "pro" audio cables for my Sennheiser 6xx? Since we are all using the Valhalla here, you know I can't use balanced cables so please keep that in mind with your recommendations. I understand there is an element of "snake oil" with a lot of these cables, but I can afford to buy my little bits of peace of mind


Wywires has good reviews, a 40% off sale, and a 30-day trial.       https://wywires.com/collections/wywires-heaphone-cables


----------



## JollyGreen

regaet said:


> Wywires has good reviews, a 40% off sale, and a 30-day trial.       https://wywires.com/collections/wywires-heaphone-cables


Damn, $730 bucks for a headphone cable? Does it let me hear the future? Is it made of Mithril and forged in the Misty Mountains by the Noldor? Maybe one day I will attain this level of baller but that day is not today


----------



## exchez (Aug 15, 2021)

JollyGreen said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Can anyone recommend a good brand of "pro" audio cables for my Sennheiser 6xx? Since we are all using the Valhalla here, you know I can't use balanced cables so please keep that in mind with your recommendations. I understand there is an element of "snake oil" with a lot of these cables, but I can afford to buy my little bits of peace of mind


Corpse cables has some good options including stock cables that have better quality terminations.

Edit: I can't find stock cables on their site right now so they may no longer offer that as an option.


----------



## regaet

JollyGreen said:


> Damn, $730 bucks for a headphone cable? Does it let me hear the future? Is it made of Mithril and forged in the Misty Mountains by the Noldor? Maybe one day I will attain this level of baller but that day is not today


You asked for "pro" audio quality cables. The Wywires Red are $209.40 after discount and if you can't hear a difference worth that to you send them back for a refund.


----------



## Guidostrunk (Aug 15, 2021)

JollyGreen said:


> Damn, $730 bucks for a headphone cable? Does it let me hear the future? Is it made of Mithril and forged in the Misty Mountains by the Noldor? Maybe one day I will attain this level of baller but that day is not today


$730? I didn't see a cable for $730. $599 was the most expensive I saw. Minus 40% puts you at about $360 for the Platinum


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm currently running a Norne Solvine cable with my Focal MG pro. Runs $350 from Norne. After 11 years of being on here and a devout skeptic. The Norne put all that skepticism away. Lol


----------



## JollyGreen

regaet said:


> You asked for "pro" audio quality cables. The Wywires Red are $209.40 after discount and if you can't hear a difference worth that to you send them back for a refund.


Not having much experience with stereo cables, it would be a WILD risk for me to pay that much for a headphone cable. How much more advanced can the tech be than the normal Sennheiser cable? I imagine the answer may be "considerable" so I suppose I will keep looking. Also, the reason the one I had was priced so high is because I need it to be ten feet to my listening chair while i read


----------



## JollyGreen

So is OCC Litz silver the way to go?


----------



## Guidostrunk

JollyGreen said:


> So is OCC Litz silver the way to go?


Some people prefer all silver some all copper. For something like the hd650. I'd go silver. 

The biggest difference for me with a premium cable was the resolution and clarity. Now.... is that attributed to the type of wire used, or is it the guage of wire used? I don't know. 
What I do know is that the thickness in wire has impedance variations. Quality of the wire(impurities/tensile strength) produced would be another factor. 

To end the derailment of this thread I suggest to anyone. If you're curious about anything in this hobby and you got the funds to stimulate that curiosity. Do it. There's a used market on here as well. Usually find things cheaper. 

It's all subjective. Just another persons opinion on an audio forum lol.


----------



## regaet

JollyGreen said:


> Not having much experience with stereo cables, it would be a WILD risk for me to pay that much for a headphone cable. How much more advanced can the tech be than the normal Sennheiser cable? I imagine the answer may be "considerable" so I suppose I will keep looking. Also, the reason the one I had was priced so high is because I need it to be ten feet to my listening chair while i read


https://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGHPC


----------



## JollyGreen

Hey guys, I've started seeing balanced headphone wires but terminating with a single 1/4 end (with three black bands instead of 2). How do these work, and in what jacks can you use them? I do believe it explicitly mentions not to use them with the Valhalla 2 via a note in the box. So what are these for?


----------



## jonathan c (Aug 16, 2021)

JollyGreen said:


> Not having much experience with stereo cables, it would be a WILD risk for me to pay that much for a headphone cable. How much more advanced can the tech be than the normal Sennheiser cable? I imagine the answer may be "considerable" so I suppose I will keep looking. Also, the reason the one I had was priced so high is because I need it to be ten feet to my listening chair while i read


Please continue the discussion on the “Cables, Power, Tweaks, Speakers, Accessories” forum. I would rather hear dialogue over the Valhalla (I or II) here.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

JollyGreen said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Can anyone recommend a good brand of "pro" audio cables for my Sennheiser 6xx? Since we are all using the Valhalla here, you know I can't use balanced cables so please keep that in mind with your recommendations. I understand there is an element of "snake oil" with a lot of these cables, but I can afford to buy my little bits of peace of mind


I'd DM @Paladin79.  He's made a couple sets for my HD650's and HD700's.  Quite reasonably priced and very high quality.


----------



## Lvivske (Aug 16, 2021)

its kinda nuts

so with my Lokius in the shop I've been banging my head trying to tune everything good again and not much luck - reminds me how much I hate the Valhalla (or I hate how it pairs with my headphones) - but I decided to roll in the JJ's with the IR's to see if they paired nicely by some chance, and I found musically they worked, there was something synergistic about the sound, but then ran some test tracks that I've been using lately and holy hell. Echos and detail I pick up on my integrated amp heavily and the 455's well enough, were completely absent. I'm talking echo on the vocal track, layers in the background. Gone. 

The other difference is that on the JJ/IRs I was maxing out the volume on some older songs again, something that I wouldn't dare with the Brimars. The latter are just louder tubes. Tubes increase gain? Apparently.

It's really a testament to how necessary the 455s are or something on that level. I thought the JJs were hugely superior to stock, but losing all that detail going back, its jarring.


----------



## JollyGreen

Lvivske said:


> its kinda nuts
> 
> so with my Lokius in the shop I've been banging my head trying to tune everything good again and not much luck - reminds me how much I hate the Valhalla (or I hate how it pairs with my headphones) - but I decided to roll in the JJ's with the IR's to see if they paired nicely by some chance, and I found musically they worked, there was something synergistic about the sound, but then ran some test tracks that I've been using lately and holy hell. Echos and detail I pick up on my integrated amp heavily and the 455's well enough, were completely absent. I'm talking echo on the vocal track, layers in the background. Gone.
> 
> ...


Would you mind explaining what you mean by the "455"s? Are those specific tubes for the Valhalla? I would hate to realize I'm missing out on such detail. 

Also, I've considered getting a Lokius for my Modius/Valhalla stack, what's wrong with yours?


----------



## Lvivske

JollyGreen said:


> Would you mind explaining what you mean by the "455"s? Are those specific tubes for the Valhalla? I would hate to realize I'm missing out on such detail.
> 
> Also, I've considered getting a Lokius for my Modius/Valhalla stack, what's wrong with yours?



The Brimar CV455 tubes that have been bought by a bunch of us here. I wouldn't say its as good on detail as much as it exposed my previous stuff for not being up to par.

For the eq, the problem was one of the outputs developed a buzz. (sent back for exchange)


----------



## FLTWS

Lvivske said:


> its kinda nuts
> 
> so with my Lokius in the shop ...


What happened with it?


----------



## Lvivske

FLTWS said:


> What happened with it?



1 post up, my dude


----------



## FLTWS

Ah, noise.


----------



## Lvivske




----------



## _js_

I need to burn in my JJ gold pins, but for what it's worth, on initial listen, I actually thought that on the whole they weren't even as good as the stock tubes.  But I'm starting to get the feeling that I lucked out somehow on my stock tubes.

Now, the Brimar CV4033's on the other hand, those are pretty great tubes!  I still have the quiet crackling sound on one of them that isn't going away with hours on the tubes, but at medium to loud volumes, I don't hear that, I only hear how great the 4033's are.  Fortunately, the seller is sending me another pair, which is super awesome of him!  With the crackle gone, the 4033's would be top of the heap based on what I've heard so far (which admittedly isn't much).

My Brimar CV455's I still haven't run in yet, so I will withhold judgement, but what I can say is that both the 455's and the 4033's I'm pretty sure have greater gain than my stock tubes.  So lower position on the volume knob will get me the same loudness at my headphones.  I think.  If memory serves.

I also have some Foton 6N6P tubes now, which I will try swapping in soon also.


----------



## Guidostrunk

_js_ said:


> I need to burn in my JJ gold pins, but for what it's worth, on initial listen, I actually thought that on the whole they weren't even as good as the stock tubes.  But I'm starting to get the feeling that I lucked out somehow on my stock tubes.
> 
> Now, the Brimar CV4033's on the other hand, those are pretty great tubes!  I still have the quiet crackling sound on one of them that isn't going away with hours on the tubes, but at medium to loud volumes, I don't hear that, I only hear how great the 4033's are.  Fortunately, the seller is sending me another pair, which is super awesome of him!  With the crackle gone, the 4033's would be top of the heap based on what I've heard so far (which admittedly isn't much).
> 
> ...


I'll be sending you tracking when I get home lol. That pair went out this morning. 

 For reference,  I have a pair of cv4033(currently using) that took almost 40 hours before the crackling was gone. It was intermittent and sometimes would go away after re-seating the tubes. Burn in for me was the ticket. My pair im using now has over 200 hours on them and haven't heard the faintest crackle since the 40 hour mark. 
It's happened with other tubes as well over the past 8 years I've been rolling. 
Anyone buying tubes in the future. Give them some time. After 50 and still crackling. Send them back lol.


----------



## hodgjy

_js_ said:


> I need to burn in my JJ gold pins, but for what it's worth, on initial listen, I actually thought that on the whole they weren't even as good as the stock tubes.  But I'm starting to get the feeling that I lucked out somehow on my stock tubes.


If your stock tubes are pre-Gorbachev Voskhod rocket 6N1P-EV, they are excellent tubes. I rolled the hell out of my Vali 2+ and it was the best by a long shot.


----------



## _js_

Guidostrunk said:


> I'll be sending you tracking when I get home lol. That pair went out this morning.
> 
> For reference,  I have a pair of cv4033(currently using) that took almost 40 hours before the crackling was gone. It was intermittent and sometimes would go away after re-seating the tubes. Burn in for me was the ticket. My pair im using now has over 200 hours on them and haven't heard the faintest crackle since the 40 hour mark.
> It's happened with other tubes as well over the past 8 years I've been rolling.
> Anyone buying tubes in the future. Give them some time. After 50 and still crackling. Send them back lol.



So, now everyone knows who the awesome seller is!  LOL!

So, Guidostrunk, is there some sign that it will eventually go away--the crackle?  Like does it get slightly better with each passing hour?  Because the crackle on that one tube pretty much hasn't changed from the start.  It's maybe slightly less loud than it was in the first few minutes, but other than that, exactly the same at hour 1 as at hour 20.  Meanwhile the other tube in the pair was fine from minute 1.  Does that say something?  Or can you just not tell when and how the crackle will burn away and be gone? Asking for future reference and also for those reading this thread.


----------



## Lvivske

hodgjy said:


> If your stock tubes are pre-Gorbachev Voskhod rocket 6N1P-EV, they are excellent tubes. I rolled the hell out of my Vali 2+ and it was the best by a long shot.



Gorby ruined everything, even the tubes


----------



## Guidostrunk

_js_ said:


> So, now everyone knows who the awesome seller is!  LOL!
> 
> So, Guidostrunk, is there some sign that it will eventually go away--the crackle?  Like does it get slightly better with each passing hour?  Because the crackle on that one tube pretty much hasn't changed from the start.  It's maybe slightly less loud than it was in the first few minutes, but other than that, exactly the same at hour 1 as at hour 20.  Meanwhile the other tube in the pair was fine from minute 1.  Does that say something?  Or can you just not tell when and how the crackle will burn away and be gone? Asking for future reference and also for those reading this thread.


Mine sounded the same the whole way through pretty much. Mine was intermittent though. I'd go a few hours and it would appear. I'd shut everything down. Pull the tubes. Wait a couple minutes. Put them back in and all gone. It was pretty annoying and I almost gave up on them lol. 
I remember when it went away for good. I did the above. Went to bed and just let music play throughout the night at low volume, and through the next day while I was working and never heard it again after. 
It is a weird sound. Almost like some type of interference from something lol. 

You should have the new pair Thursday or Friday. So you can keep trying those if you want until then. I'll be sending you a pm with tracking here shortly for the new pair. I'll refund you $10 to ship the other pair back. 😁

Cheers!


----------



## Lvivske (Aug 18, 2021)

So with all my components unplugged a very dim lightbulb went off in my head regarding throwing a pre-amp before the valhalla - my integrated amp I'm listening to right beside me has a pre-out. It's hyper detailed & bassy and kind of a bizzzaro world opposite to the valhalla's weaknesses. Currently using it and it's a trip, total merger of the two amp's sounds for better or worse, it's totally a neutral objective perfectionist's nightmare - distorted and fun.  Definitely want to experiment with a desktop pre-amp now. Damnit.

Notably, drums have never sounded more detailed & real to me and I kinda wanna chase this, but need to disassemble it in a few hours.

Going full psychopath volume on this (past 3pm) then turning the valhalla up is way too much distortion but there's a sweet spot of putting the valhalla at like 80% before it starts to hum and using pre for the remainder of volume control with muting off so like 25% (unless there's a benefit to tone when pushing the valhalla full hog? that a thing?)


----------



## Guidostrunk

Lvivske said:


> So with all my components unplugged a very dim lightbulb went off in my head regarding throwing a pre-amp before the valhalla - my integrated amp I'm listening to right beside me has a pre-out. It's hyper detailed & bassy and kind of a bizzzaro world opposite to the valhalla's weaknesses. Currently using it and it's a trip, total merger of the two amp's sounds for better or worse, it's totally a neutral objective perfectionist's nightmare - distorted and fun.  Definitely want to experiment with a desktop pre-amp now. Damnit.
> 
> Notably, drums have never sounded more detailed & real to me and I kinda wanna chase this, but need to disassemble it in a few hours.
> 
> Going full psychopath volume on this (past 3pm) then turning the valhalla up is way too much distortion but there's a sweet spot of putting the valhalla at like 80% before it starts to hum and using pre for the remainder of volume control with muting off so like 25% (unless there's a benefit to tone when pushing the valhalla full hog? that a thing?)


Usually amps will hit unity gain around the 1 o'clock mark. I'd float around there on the Valhalla.


----------



## Ripper2860

Hmmmm.   Maybe when I'm bored I can try Lyr 3 into Valhalla 2 and vice versa?


----------



## wenbinbin2010

Lvivske said:


> So with all my components unplugged a very dim lightbulb went off in my head regarding throwing a pre-amp before the valhalla - my integrated amp I'm listening to right beside me has a pre-out. It's hyper detailed & bassy and kind of a bizzzaro world opposite to the valhalla's weaknesses. Currently using it and it's a trip, total merger of the two amp's sounds for better or worse, it's totally a neutral objective perfectionist's nightmare - distorted and fun.  Definitely want to experiment with a desktop pre-amp now. Damnit.
> 
> Notably, drums have never sounded more detailed & real to me and I kinda wanna chase this, but need to disassemble it in a few hours.
> 
> Going full psychopath volume on this (past 3pm) then turning the valhalla up is way too much distortion but there's a sweet spot of putting the valhalla at like 80% before it starts to hum and using pre for the remainder of volume control with muting off so like 25% (unless there's a benefit to tone when pushing the valhalla full hog? that a thing?)


I've been experimenting with the Valhalla 2 as a preamp into my Eddie Current Studio Jr. With the VH2 being more neutral, rather than the typical warm OTL sound, it let's the sound of the more expensive Eddie Current still come through, but I seem to gain the extra layering and more 3D soundstage that the VH2 provides. This was magnified even more after I upgraded my input tubes to the Brimar CV4033, also from @Guidostrunk. As strange as it is running a tube preamp into another tube amp, I actually like it quite a lot!

I may still end up going back to my Rebelamp as the main preamp though. The benefit to the Rebelamp is that it has a preamp switch, so I can keep a 2nd headphone plugged into the Rebelamp and switch between that and my main setup whenever I wish for more variety. Also doesn't get as burning hot as the Valhalla...


----------



## Lvivske

wenbinbin2010 said:


> I may still end up going back to my Rebelamp as the main preamp though. The benefit to the Rebelamp is that it has a preamp switch, so I can keep a 2nd headphone plugged into the Rebelamp and switch between that and my main setup whenever I wish for more variety. Also doesn't get as burning hot as the Valhalla...



ok since I'm *strongly* considering the Rebel as both a solid state amp just to have & intending to run it as a pre-amp for the valhalla.....how does that sound? as a pre does it help your main amp?


----------



## jonathan c (Aug 18, 2021)

wenbinbin2010 said:


> I've been experimenting with the Valhalla 2 as a preamp into my Eddie Current Studio Jr. With the VH2 being more neutral, rather than the typical warm OTL sound, it let's the sound of the more expensive Eddie Current still come through, but I seem to gain the extra layering and more 3D soundstage that the VH2 provides. This was magnified even more after I upgraded my input tubes to the Brimar CV4033, also from @Guidostrunk. As strange as it is running a tube preamp into another tube amp, I actually like it quite a lot!
> 
> I may still end up going back to my Rebelamp as the main preamp though. The benefit to the Rebelamp is that it has a preamp switch, so I can keep a 2nd headphone plugged into the Rebelamp and switch between that and my main setup whenever I wish for more variety. Also doesn't get as burning hot as the Valhalla...


To alleviate the heat issue with the Valhalla: a) put the Valhalla on feet, say 2” height; b) use socket savers for the 6N6Ps (power/rear tubes); c) use socket savers/adapters for the driver/front tubes (6922/6DJ8 family, 12AT7 family…). This did a lot for my Valhalla.


----------



## wenbinbin2010

jonathan c said:


> To alleviate the heat issue with the Valhalla: a) put the Valhalla on feet, say 2” height; b) use socket savers for the 6N6Ps (power/rear tubes); c) use socket savers/adapters for the driver/front tubes (6922/6DJ8 family, 12AT7 family…). This did a lot for my Valhalla.


Yeah I should really get some socket savers for the rear tubes. Any recs on well built socket savers? I've bought generic ones from eBay that were pretty poor quality, not well fitting.


----------



## wenbinbin2010

Lvivske said:


> ok since I'm *strongly* considering the Rebel as both a solid state amp just to have & intending to run it as a pre-amp for the valhalla.....how does that sound? as a pre does it help your main amp?


I don't recall any major differences plugging in the Rebel as a preamp. It seems to have similar characteristics to my Eddie Current with Gold Lion 300b tubes, on the warmer side, very punchy, above average soundstage, so I think any changes with the Rebel were probably less obvious. I personally just think the Rebel is a fantastic standalone amp, so no hesitation in recommending it! (as long as you don't need a completely balanced setup)


----------



## jonathan c

wenbinbin2010 said:


> Yeah I should really get some socket savers for the rear tubes. Any recs on well built socket savers? I've bought generic ones from eBay that were pretty poor quality, not well fitting.


Pulse Tube Store (located in India: https://pulse tube store.com)………


----------



## jonathan c

For those owners of the Valhalla II that wish to stay with the 6DJ8 / 6922 tube type, an _excellent_ tube, that matches well to the NEVZ 6N6Ps, is the Amperex 7308 (green label).


----------



## FLTWS

Excellent tube, I have an NOS pair, purchased back in 2016, I use in my MJ2 (among dozens of other 6922 types, LOL). The color of the label; some say it matters, some say it doesn't and that they all perform the same regardless of color. I have the green in matched pair, looks fine with matching instead of contrasting color schemes sitting on tube lifters.


----------



## Lvivske

btw curious, how long should the Brimars last?


----------



## KoshNaranek

Lvivske said:


> btw curious, how long should the Brimars last?


At 2-3 hours per day average usage, about 5 years. MTBF is 5000 hours


----------



## Lvivske

well im more like 8 hours a day, so 2 years? what happens after 5k? quality goes down hill?

i only replaced my stock tubes after 10 years because i wanted to upgrade, they never shat the bed forcing a change


----------



## FLTWS

Brimar's, I have 2 matched pairs of Brimar's in my inventory but they are 12AU7's. If your Brimar's are true NOS when you got them, I believe most all small signal tubes can last 5,000 hours to 10,000 hours plus depending on how used in the circuit ( and maybe how often you roll). I've had tubes go noisy on me long before their time and so needed replacing well before 5,000 hours even though still working otherwise. A lot depends on how NewOS the tube actually was. I don't have a tube tester and haven't seen one in the wild since the days of drug stores and early days of radio shack (60's/70's). The few bad tubes I've gotten over the past 6 years were bad on arrival. My tube buying days are in my rear view mirror, (unless I at long last decide to try a 300B design amp). I got enough of all types that I want at this point in time to sustain me thru to the end.


----------



## Lvivske

FLTWS said:


> Brimar's, I have 2 matched pairs of Brimar's in my inventory but they are 12AU7's. If your Brimar's are true NOS when you got them, I believe most all small signal tubes can last 5,000 hours to 10,000 hours plus depending on how used in the circuit ( and maybe how often you roll). I've had tubes go noisy on me long before their time and so needed replacing well before 5,000 hours even though still working otherwise. A lot depends on how NewOS the tube actually was.


in my case it's the 1956 12AT7 CV455s

so its a matter of noise creeping in?

the PS Audio guy on youtube was saying to get new tubes every year regardless "because they lose their quality the second you start using them" but that sounded like excessive baloney


----------



## FLTWS

I agree, I've got plenty of "aged" tubes that sound just fine to me.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Lvivske said:


> btw curious, how long should the Brimars last?


The cv4033 are ruggedized military tubes rated for 10,000 hours.


----------



## JollyGreen

Hello all, I'm considering adding a Schiit Lokius EQ to my Modius and Valhalla 2 stack, i'm wondering if anyone else is using an EQ with their Valhalla, or do you guys think that "ruins" the point of using a tube amp?


----------



## Lvivske

JollyGreen said:


> Hello all, I'm considering adding a Schiit Lokius EQ to my Modius and Valhalla 2 stack, i'm wondering if anyone else is using an EQ with their Valhalla, or do you guys think that "ruins" the point of using a tube amp?


I have a Lokius w/ Valhalla

I dont think that 'ruins' anything, I mean, the whole point of rolling tubes is to customize and tweak the sound to where you like, analog EQ is just more tweaking

Usually bitperfect purists avoid tubes altogether to stay neutral


----------



## hodgjy

Lvivske said:


> well im more like 8 hours a day, so 2 years? what happens after 5k? quality goes down hill?
> 
> i only replaced my stock tubes after 10 years because i wanted to upgrade, they never shat the bed forcing a change


Tubes start degrading from the moment they are first heated. The ratings are the nominal time you can expect most tubes to last before performance is noticeably decreased. Some tubes wear out much sooner and others last much longer; it's just a predicted rating. You can tell a tube is wearing out when you lose either, or both, of the ends of the sound spectrum, volume decreases, noise appears, and/or have intermittent drop outs.


----------



## Lvivske

here's a riddle, is a tube _degrading_ during the burn in improvement period?


----------



## hodgjy

Lvivske said:


> here's a riddle, is a tube _degrading_ during the burn in improvement period?


Tubes definitely go through some changes during the first few hours. Impurities and residual gasses leftover from manufacturing are burned off, thermal expansion changes some of the fittings, and the overall nature of the tube stabilizes. So, yes, during the first few hours the tube will approach the intended design/performance specifications, so it could perceptibly sound better. But, this is a few hours at most. All of those claims of long burn-ins, like 50 or more hours are brain burn-in, not actual tube burn-in. 

I've read claims of 250 hours in some rolling threads. Aside: how can our auditory memory possibly remember 250 hours? Narrator: it can't.

And why is it the long burn-ins always sound better, not worse? Because our brains adjust to the sound. Familiarity effect.


----------



## Lvivske

well not everyone burns in while listening for 250 hours straight, lots (myself included at least for the first couple days) let it burn in while AFK, checking periodically


----------



## hodgjy

Lvivske said:


> well not everyone burns in while listening for 250 hours straight, lots (myself included at least for the first couple days) let it burn in while AFK, checking periodically


We're all free to believe what we want, and that's the beauty of audiphilia. I don't think tubes change all that much after the first few hours, and I also believe that if you leave tubes unattended for long burn-in periods, all you're doing is prematurely wearing them out. I prefer to do any burn in, if it really is a thing, while I'm listening to music.


----------



## Lvivske

50/10,000 hours is basically just driving them off the lot imo


----------



## hodgjy

Lvivske said:


> 50/10,000 hours is basically just driving them off the lot imo


I have tubes rated at 1000 hours. I’m not gonna burn off 1/4 of their life in the hopes of audio bliss.


----------



## Lvivske

hodgjy said:


> I have tubes rated at 1000 hours. I’m not gonna burn off 1/4 of their life in the hopes of audio bliss.



1/20th of their life, to be accurate


----------



## hodgjy

Lvivske said:


> 1/20th of their life, to be accurate


I was referring to 250 hours. I can math.


----------



## Lvivske

hodgjy said:


> I can math.


----------



## Ripper2860

hodgjy said:


> I have tubes rated at 1000 hours. I’m not gonna burn off 1/4 of their life in the hopes of audio bliss.



Please turn in your audiophile member card on the way out.


----------



## hodgjy

Lvivske said:


>


Not sure how to take that.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Lvivske said:


> I have a Lokius w/ Valhalla
> 
> I dont think that 'ruins' anything, I mean, the whole point of rolling tubes is to customize and tweak the sound to where you like, analog EQ is just more tweaking
> 
> Usually bitperfect purists avoid tubes altogether to stay neutral


Agreed. I'm going to be adding one to my rig soon. It may reduce my crack head like addiction to tube rolling 😂


----------



## Guidostrunk

I won't even judge a tube until I get at least past 30 hours.


----------



## jonathan c

hodgjy said:


> I was referring to 250 hours. I can math.


Is ‘math’ now a verb?


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Agreed. I'm going to be adding one to my rig soon. It may reduce my crack head like addiction to tube rolling 😂


It could make it worse:  you might use Lokius with tube A to attempt making it sound like tube B…and so on…


----------



## hodgjy

jonathan c said:


> Is ‘math’ now a verb?


It's called trying to be funny and defuse a potential antagonist.


----------



## jonathan c

Lvivske said:


> I have a Lokius w/ Valhalla
> 
> I dont think that 'ruins' anything, I mean, the whole point of rolling tubes is to customize and tweak the sound to where you like, analog EQ is just more tweaking
> 
> Usually bitperfect purists avoid tubes altogether to stay neutral


Usually bitperfect purists avoid tubes altogether because - as Jack Nicholson stated in “A Few Good Men” - they can’t handle the truth…


----------



## Lvivske

jonathan c said:


> Usually bitperfect purists avoid tubes altogether because - as Jack Nicholson stated in “A Few Good Men” - they can’t handle the truth…



or as a wise man once said


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> It could make it worse:  you might use Lokius with tube A to attempt making it sound like tube B…and so on…


You know. That's part of my hesitancy. With severe OCD I could potentially fry my brain. 😂


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> You know. That's part of my hesitancy. With severe OCD I could potentially fry my brain. 😂


Output Coupling Devices?…🧐🤨😜…


----------



## Lvivske

wenbinbin2010 said:


> I personally just think the Rebel is a fantastic standalone amp, so no hesitation in recommending it! (as long as you don't need a completely balanced setup)



btw by chance I went on their site today to see they were finally restocked after months, no re-stock notification emails went out, so lucky me, I'm in the rare club now

immediately going pre-amp to the Valhalla, will find out first hand how crazy I am


----------



## jonathan c

Lvivske said:


> btw by chance I went on their site today to see they were finally restocked after months, no re-stock notification emails went out, so lucky me, I'm in the rare club now
> 
> immediately going pre-amp to the Valhalla, will find out first hand how crazy I am


No need to…we can attest to that…


----------



## jonathan c

From the headphone system photograph library. And I have been swept the last few days by this amazing combination! Footscray, Gjallarhorn JM Edition, Valhalla II = S-Y-N-E-R-G-Y —> 🏳 to the 🎶…


Also, an idea that is percolating in my head: Valhalla II as preamplifier to Jotunheim II ( a Frankenstein-ish ‘creation’ of a Mjolnir II although without balanced XLR). Punt or pursue?…


----------



## Lvivske

Well I for one am curious if the _Fauxnir _syngergizes


----------



## KoshNaranek

Lvivske said:


> well im more like 8 hours a day, so 2 years? what happens after 5k? quality goes down hill?
> 
> i only replaced my stock tubes after 10 years because i wanted to upgrade, they never shat the bed forcing a change


First of all, I am jealous that you listen 8 hours per day. That aside, the tubes apparently sound less lively as they age. Some tubes have a lifespan of 10000 hours. These would include the 7308, ECC188. 7dj8 should also last that long as the cathode is being run 15% undervoltage in Valhalla.


----------



## wenbinbin2010

jonathan c said:


> Pulse Tube Store (located in India: https://pulse tube store.com)………



Reporting back that these socket savers are EXCELLENT quality, and they have made an immediate difference in the temperature of my Valhalla 2 chassis. It seems like putting socket savers in the rear power tubes has made a huge difference, as I already had the front input tubes lifted with 12A*7 adapters. Before getting the rear power tubes elevated, the VH2 chassis would be burning hot within 20-30 minutes of turning on. Today, I listened for over an hour, and the chassis was only lukewarm. 

Highly recommend for anyone with heat issues with their VH2!


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 29, 2021)

Excellent tube lifter/socket saver.  I've used them for years as you've described with my VH2 power tubes, and on the driver tubes when using native/unadapted tubes (6DJ8/6922, etc).  VH2 is just a tad warm now where before it was *downright and uncomfortably hot!!!* 

Folks, don't let the fact they are in India deter a purchase.  Pulse Tube Store is/was the direct supplier to Tubemonger.  The poor folks at Tubemonger had so many packages stolen by porch pirates it was causing extreme stock availability issues and they now just point folks directly to their supplier - Pulse Tube Store.


----------



## Lvivske

Got the Rebel, dont know what to think. No personal burn in yet outside the factory's claimed 50 hours. It's not doing anything overly _complimentary_ to the sound from what I can tell. If anything it might be harsher but I need to give it more time.

So right now as a pre it mostly feels like a volume knob - which is nice since its not scalding and has more range (and no noise when i touch it without being grounded). Small things.

Is there any reason to test for higher or lower gain? (does that impact tonal qualities usually?) Max out Valhalla volume or not?

So far the Brimars made the biggest upgrade to sound, more than the Bifrost 2 ($700) and Rebel pre amp ($500). Maybe the tube life is the best life.


----------



## wenbinbin2010

Lvivske said:


> Got the Rebel, dont know what to think. No personal burn in yet outside the factory's claimed 50 hours. It's not doing anything overly _complimentary_ to the sound from what I can tell. If anything it might be harsher but I need to give it more time.
> 
> So right now as a pre it mostly feels like a volume knob - which is nice since its not scalding and has more range (and no noise when i touch it without being grounded). Small things.
> 
> ...



Agree that the Brimar tubes make the VH2 excellent. I don't use the Rebelamp as a preamp, but right now just serving as an alternative SS option when I don't want to warm up my tubes. Before the Brimar tubes, I thought the Rebelamp was a pretty good alternative to the VH2. But now...to be honest, my Rebelamp isn't used very often. Might as well wait a few minutes for warm up, and the VH2 with Brimar tubes sounds so much better.


----------



## Lvivske

wenbinbin2010 said:


> Agree that the Brimar tubes make the VH2 excellent. I don't use the Rebelamp as a preamp, but right now just serving as an alternative SS option when I don't want to warm up my tubes. Before the Brimar tubes, I thought the Rebelamp was a pretty good alternative to the VH2. But now...to be honest, my Rebelamp isn't used very often. Might as well wait a few minutes for warm up, and the VH2 with Brimar tubes sounds so much better.



actually this is why I need to just let things burn in before coming to any conclusions, much better today. Cant speak for the pairing as a pre-amp (yet) but it might be a keeper. Reminds me of when I hit the 50hr mark on the Brimars and pulled one of these


----------



## jonathan c

Lvivske said:


> actually this is why I need to just let things burn in before coming to any conclusions, much better today. Cant speak for the pairing as a pre-amp (yet) but it might be a keeper. Reminds me of when I hit the 50hr mark on the Brimars and pulled one of these


It can be depicted this way, too…


----------



## Lvivske

haha well brimars went from good to gooder


----------



## jonathan c

Lvivske said:


> haha well brimars went from good to gooder


…and I hope to goodest…


----------



## Lvivske

jonathan c said:


> …and I hope to goodest…



it was more like gooderer

gotta leave room for the mythical goodest to be lurking out there


----------



## G0rt

🙃


----------



## MacMan31

Someone on Reddit suggested these as an upgrade from the stock tubes. Has any of you here tried these? 
https://www.thetubestore.com/ge-6cg7-6fq7?quantity=1&additional_options=3


----------



## Tralfaz

MacMan31 said:


> Someone on Reddit suggested these as an upgrade from the stock tubes. Has any of you here tried these?
> https://www.thetubestore.com/ge-6cg7-6fq7?quantity=1&additional_options=3


I used RCA 6CG7s in my Valhalla 2 before I moved on to the Lyr 3 and I liked them a lot.  Electrically they're similar to the 6SN7 tube and they're inexpensive enough tubes (you should be able to find them for less than the price on the site you linked to in your post) that there's little risk in trying them to see if they do what you want them to.


----------



## MacMan31

Tralfaz said:


> I used RCA 6CG7s in my Valhalla 2 before I moved on to the Lyr 3 and I liked them a lot.  Electrically they're similar to the 6SN7 tube and they're inexpensive enough tubes (you should be able to find them for less than the price on the site you linked to in your post) that there's little risk in trying them to see if they do what you want them to.



What's your opinion on the Lyr 3 compared to the Valhalla 2?


----------



## Ripper2860 (Sep 4, 2021)

What headphones will you be pairing?  It's pretty tough to beat VH2 with ZMF or even the Senn. HD6XX.  I own the VH2 and Lyr 3 and VH2 with my HD6XX and nice tubes is noticeably better sounding than the Lyr 3 with the HD6XX, IMHO.

Don't get me wrong, Lyr 3 is a great hybrid, but the sound of an all tube OTL with the right cans is sublime.


----------



## MacMan31

Ripper2860 said:


> What headphones?



Are you asking me? I have HD6XX and ZMF Aeolus.


----------



## Ripper2860

MacMan31 said:


> Are you asking me? I have HD6XX and ZMF Aeolus.


Yeah.  It was you.  Sorry.  Read my edited post for my opinion.  😀


----------



## FLTWS

MacMan31 said:


> Are you asking me? I have HD6XX and ZMF Aeolus.


I think the HH6XX are 300 ohms, Valhalla would be a very nice match. No idea what the ZMF's are.


----------



## jonathan c

For those Valhalla II users who wish to stay within the 6922-type driver tube “sphere”, another high recommendation - besides the Amperex PQ 7308 - is the Tungsram E88CC. Each sonic parameter rates highly to me and the _gestalt _is impressive.


----------



## jonathan c

FLTWS said:


> I think the HH6XX are 300 ohms, Valhalla would be a very nice match. No idea what the ZMF's are.


Auteur is 300 ohms…great with Valhalla II (and  Woo WA2, Woo WA3, LTA MicroZOTL MZ3…)


----------



## MacMan31

jonathan c said:


> For those Valhalla II users who wish to stay within the 6922-type driver tube “sphere”, another high recommendation - besides the Amperex PQ 7308 - is the Tungsram E88CC. Each sonic parameter rates highly to me and the _gestalt _is impressive.



Those tubes are listed here @ $280 CAD for a matched pair. Is that too much? 
https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/det...6922-6n1p-e-6h5n-6h1n-very-nice-strong-tubes/


----------



## MacMan31

Ripper2860 said:


> What headphones will you be pairing?  It's pretty tough to beat VH2 with ZMF or even the Senn. HD6XX.  I own the VH2 and Lyr 3 and VH2 with my HD6XX and nice tubes is noticeably better sounding than the Lyr 3 with the HD6XX, IMHO.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, Lyr 3 is a great hybrid, but the sound of an all tube OTL with the right cans is sublime.



Which "nice tubes" do you have or would suggest? My DAC is the Drop Airist R2R at the moment.


----------



## jonathan c

MacMan31 said:


> Those tubes are listed here @ $280 CAD for a matched pair. Is that too much?
> https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/det...6922-6n1p-e-6h5n-6h1n-very-nice-strong-tubes/


The Amperex 7308 matched pair at C$ 280 seems reasonable. I have seen them listed in the US up to $ 300 (for very strong testing / Gm values).


----------



## Ripper2860 (Sep 4, 2021)

I certainly do not have all that some consider holy grail, but 2 driver pairs I would suggest are the much talked about Brimar CV4033 Footscray and the Raytheon Unline 7728.  Both require a 12A*7 tube to 6922 amp adapter, but they are quite easy to find and a safe alternative to the native 6922/6DJ8, etc.

I have also replaced the 6N1P power tubes with Foton good grid versions.  A VERY inexpensive but worthwhile upgrade.


----------



## MacMan31

jonathan c said:


> The Amperex 7308 matched pair at C$ 280 seems reasonable. I have seen them listed in the US up to $ 300 (for very strong testing / Gm values).





Ripper2860 said:


> I certainly do not have all that some consider holy grail, but 2 driver pairs I would suggest are the much talked about Brimar CV4033 Footscray and the Raytheon Unline 7728.  Both require a 12A*7 tube to 6922 amp adapter, but they are quite easy to find and a safe alternative to the native 6922/6DJ8, etc.
> 
> I have also replaced the 6N1P power tubes with Foton good grid versions.  A VERY inexpensive but worthwhile upgrade.



I am considering these options. 
https://www.thetubestore.com/ge-6cg7-6fq7?additional_options=3 

https://www.thetubestore.com/jj-e88cc-6922-gold?additional_options=3 

Those other options seem pretty pricy. Even so where could I find these?


----------



## jonathan c

MacMan31 said:


> I am considering these options.
> https://www.thetubestore.com/ge-6cg7-6fq7?additional_options=3
> 
> https://www.thetubestore.com/jj-e88cc-6922-gold?additional_options=3
> ...


I have no experience with the tube store listings.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Sep 4, 2021)

Yeah - they're pricey, but if I added up all the $$$ I spent on prior tube purchases working my way up to these tubes, it would make me cry.  If I only I knew then what I do now I could have saved much money and retired.  😀

I consider these my end-game for VH2. I was just trying to save you from the tube rabbit hole.  Futile, I know.  We must all learn that lesson on our own.  Of course you could be that one in a million.  😉

The Brimar CV4033 may be available on Pulse Tube Store. Uniline 7728s pop up on eBay every now and then.

BTW - Gold Lion 6922 may be a more affordable option.  They do sound quite good in VH2.


----------



## MacMan31

Ripper2860 said:


> Yeah - they're pricey, but if I added up all the $$$ I spent on prior tube purchases working my way up to these tubes, it makes me cry.  If I only I knew then what I do now I could have saved much money and retired.  😀
> 
> I consider these my end-game for VH2. I was just trying to save you from the tube rabbit hole.  Futile, I know.  We must all learn that lesson on our own.  Of course you could be that one in a million.  😉
> 
> ...



There are a bunch of different options when I search for Brimar CV4033 on PTS. https://pulsetubestore.com/search?q=Brimar+CV4033 

I don't use eBay as I don't have PayPal so no point looking there. 

I think I will try those Gold Lion 6922 and see how well they do. Perhaps I will looking into those Amperex 7308 as well.


----------



## regaet (Jan 25, 2022)

Go back to page 95 and read the progression and like Ripper said you can save yourself a lot of money in the long run. I tried some GE 6gu7 tubes early on and they were ok but I found early 1950s 6BK7 and 6BQ7s that were much better. After reading the posts I recommended I now have the Brimar CV4033 and CV455 with adapters and they truly take the Valhalla to another level. If you read those pages you will find a lot of options and what to expect taking advantage of other members' experiences. I, like Ripper, think of the money spent seeking the best sound I could squeeze out of the Valhalla. Not that it wasn't fun but....... So my advice is to research in this thread and maybe Mjolnir 2 tube rolling thread before you start spending more money.


----------



## jonathan c

MacMan31 said:


> There are a bunch of different options when I search for Brimar CV4033 on PTS. https://pulsetubestore.com/search?q=Brimar+CV4033
> 
> I don't use eBay as I don't have PayPal so no point looking there.
> 
> I think I will try those Gold Lion 6922 and see how well they do. Perhaps I will looking into those Amperex 7308 as well.


If you do go for Brimar CV4033 on PTS, these are the ones ($US):


----------



## Ripper2860 (Sep 4, 2021)

Yep.  Those are are the Brimar you are looking for.

Honestly, IMHO with those you're pretty much one and done.  You will need 2 however.  😀


----------



## MacMan31

I would need a pair of these. That would come to $262. I assume that is in US dollars. Where does Pulse Tube Store originate?


----------



## Ripper2860 (Sep 4, 2021)

Yeah.  Sadly a pair is required.

They are in India but they are  supplier for US-based  Tubemonger and they link to the Pulse Tube Store.  Both are highly regarded resellers.  I've bought from both Tubemonger and Pulse.  Don't let the India deter you.  Brimar is a British tube and former colonies are a good source.

You may want to check Langrex (UK) and see if they have any Brimar Footscray CV455 tubes left.  Those are very highly regarded and kissing cousins yo the Footscray Brimar CV4033.  Last I checked they were much cheaper too.

If the price of these Brimar is more than you can justify (and I wouldn't blame you) or the Langrex Brimar CV455 is unavailable, the Gold Lion 6922 really is a nice tube. They are considered very good for the price.  The ZMF would absolutely love the CV4033s or CV455s. Just ask @Wes S .  😀


----------



## jonathan c

MacMan31 said:


> I would need a pair of these. That would come to $262. I assume that is in US dollars. Where does Pulse Tube Store originate?


It is USD. Pulse Tube Engineering / Pulse Tube Store is located in India. I have transacted with PTS numerous times - via PayPal. You may want to rethink the establishment of a PayPal account. Sanjiv at PTS is a tube aficionado, good businessman, and a gentleman to boot.


----------



## jonathan c

Ripper2860 said:


> Yeah.  Sadly a pair is required.
> 
> They are in India but they are  supplier for US-based  Tubemonger and they link to the Pulse Tube Store.  Both are highly regarded resellers.  I've bought from both Tubemonger and Pulse.  Don't let the India deter you.  Brimar is a British tube and former colonies are a good source.
> 
> ...


CV455 at Langrex: 266 left / £45 per tube…


----------



## Ripper2860

@MacMan31 -. See the post above.  Snag a pair of CV455s and adapters and call it a day!  Your wallet and ears will thank you!


----------



## MacMan31

What is Langrex? 

Also I just tried to make a purchase on PTS and I can still pay via a credit card. Once I go through the process of inputting my information it does re-direct me to PayPal but then I have the option to "pay with debit or credit card". I can just put in that info to complete the transaction.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Sep 4, 2021)

Langrex is a UK reseller.  Let me see if I can get you a link...

Here ya go...

https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/12at7-cv455-kb-fb-brimar-rare-triple-mica-1956-nos-valve-tube/

If you order, place in notes that you want a matched pair of tubes and you also want a tracking number sent.

And I believe you are correct on the Paypal question.  You should be able to add the cc info on-the-fly.

The Langrex CV455 is right there with the CV4033, so I would suggest them since they are available. A lot less $$$ for the same result.


----------



## jonathan c

MacMan31 said:


> What is Langrex?


A British tube/electronics dealer. L👀K BELOW! This tube is a “holy grail”, “end of the road” piece for quite a few HFiers in this thread, in the Mjolnir II thread, and in others. (I am one of those HFiers.) As “Ripper” says, buy two (or more) of these, two 12A*7 —> E88CC adapters, and be done! Musical nirvana will be your domain!


----------



## MacMan31

So I need adapters also? I have tube risers in my VH2. Can I get these adapter on the same site? I can't seem to find any adapters there.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Sep 4, 2021)

You would need 2 of these...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

Langrex does not seem to carry adapters.

BTW - adapters will raise the tube sufficiently, so no need to use a lifter or socket saver along with it.


----------



## MacMan31

Seems like they are also here. Select them from the options menu. https://valvesnmore.com/?product=12at7-ecc81-cv455-tubes 

But getting the adapter from that eBay page means I'm giving my info to China. That's something I'd rather not voluntarily do.


----------



## Ripper2860

If you pay with Paypal, they will never have cc info.  Im not aware of any US sources, but maybe someone else can chime in.  

There is Head-fi member @Deyan.  You could send him message via Head-fi and have him build it for you.  He's not US- based ( can't remember where exactly) but he is not in Russia or China. Several of us have had him make adapters for us.  I have at least 5 from him.


----------



## jonathan c

MacMan31 said:


> Seems like they are also here. Select them from the options menu. https://valvesnmore.com/?product=12at7-ecc81-cv455-tubes
> 
> But getting the adapter from that eBay page means I'm giving my info to China. That's something I'd rather not voluntarily do.


The CV455s offered above are _not _the Footscray plant manufactured tubes. Those have the marking “KB/FB”. Of the CV455s, those are the cream.


----------



## jonathan c

Ripper2860 said:


> If you pay with Paypal, they will never have cc info.  Im not aware of any US sources, but maybe someone else can chime in.
> 
> There is Head-fi member @Deyan.  You could send him message via Head-fi and have him build it for you.  He's not US- based ( can't remember where exactly) but he is not in Russia or China. Several of us have had him make adapters for us.  I have at least 5 from him.


Bulgaria. Deyan’s craftsmanship is ⭐️⭐️⭐️.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Sep 5, 2021)

Here ya go.  Tubemonger is out of stock but Pulse Tube Store has some.


https://pulsetubestore.com/products/12axx-to-ecc88-adapter-plug-play-novib-©-1960s-nos-british-mcmurdo-phenolic-socket-on-top-plus-vibration-reduction-base-9-pin-b9a-noval-not-made-in-china?_pos=2&_sid=d91ae56a1&_ss=r


----------



## MacMan31

Thank you for all the help. Much appreciated. I will look into these options.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Sep 5, 2021)

No problem.   I know it can be daunting, but we are here to assist. 

Just a recap...

Option #1 - Audio Nirvana

The Langrex Footscray Brimar CV455s (not the other source) and the Pulse Tube Store adapters and you will be golden.

Option #2 - pretty darn good and nice upgrade over stock.

Gold Lion 6922.  New production.  No adapters needed.  Plenty of sources. sources.


----------



## MacMan31

So these two? 
https://pulsetubestore.com/products/12axx-to-ecc88-adapter-plug-play-novib-©-1960s-nos-british-mcmurdo-phenolic-socket-on-top-plus-vibration-reduction-base-9-pin-b9a-noval-not-made-in-china

https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/12at7-cv455-kb-fb-brimar-rare-triple-mica-1956-nos-valve-tube/


----------



## Ripper2860 (Sep 5, 2021)

That's it.  Those are the right tubes and the right adapters.

Fyi - Langrex shipment from UK can take from 2 weeks to 30 days for you to get it in the US .  COVID has shipping from UK running pretty slow at times.  They only provide tracking info if you ask for it.

Pulse order will likely arrive much quicker.


----------



## Tralfaz

MacMan31 said:


> What's your opinion on the Lyr 3 compared to the Valhalla 2?


Sorry for the late reply on this one...

I like the Lyr 3 and the Valhalla 2 a lot but for different reasons: Right now I'm working from home and largely use the Lyr 3 to drive desktop speakers (Genelec studio monitors with subwoofer) and for this I prefer the sound of the Lyr 3.  For headphones the Valhalla 2 gives me a better experience and will become my desktop headphone amp when I return to an actual office and can no longer use speakers.

I've spent more time rolling tubes in the Lyr 3 because it's on for 12 hours a day/7 days a week and I expect to do more tube rolling in the Valhalla 2 once I'm listening to it most of my workday.  This is a very informative thread and I will keep using it as a resource when the time comes to plug the Valhalla 2 back in on my desk.


----------



## MacMan31

Ripper2860 said:


> That's it.  Those are the right tubes and the right adapters.
> 
> Fyi - Langrex shipment from UK can take from 2 weeks to 30 days for you to get it in the US .  COVID has shipping from UK running pretty slow at times.  They only provide tracking info if you ask for it.
> 
> Pulse order will likely arrive much quicker.



How many adapters are included? It shows three in the photo. Is that how many are in the package?


----------



## Ripper2860 (Sep 5, 2021)

It is each.  You need 2.

The three pics are so you can read the entire label and see the pins.


----------



## MacMan31

Ripper2860 said:


> It is each.  You need 2.
> 
> The three pics are so you can read the entire label and see the pins.



Okay thanks. I thought that was the case but I was not sure. They do not clarify that on the page. Or at least I cannot find it.


----------



## MacMan31

So I got all my tubes from The Tube Store. I just installed the Novosibirsk 6N6p / 6H6pi and the GE 6CG7 / 6FQ7 but I am getting static in my headphones. Is that normal with fresh tubes? I think I made the mistake of swapping the tubes without first unplugging the amp. I hope that did not ruin anything. I'm also using tube risers as well. The tubes got hot very quickly.

EDIT: so I switched the tubes between left and right and removed the risers for the front tubes. At first it seemed fine but now there is no sound in the left side. Tubes are certainly a finicky thing.


----------



## regaet

Try the original tubes and see how the amp works with them.


----------



## MacMan31

regaet said:


> Try the original tubes and see how the amp works with them.



The amp works fine with the original tubes. I'll return to the stock rear tubes and see what happens.


----------



## exchez

MacMan31 said:


> So I got all my tubes from The Tube Store. I just installed the Novosibirsk 6N6p / 6H6pi and the GE 6CG7 / 6FQ7 but I am getting static in my headphones. Is that normal with fresh tubes? I think I made the mistake of swapping the tubes without first unplugging the amp. I hope that did not ruin anything. I'm also using tube risers as well. The tubes got hot very quickly.
> 
> EDIT: so I switched the tubes between left and right and removed the risers for the front tubes. At first it seemed fine but now there is no sound in the left side. Tubes are certainly a finicky thing.


Sometimes NOS tubes need a few days to settle in and swapping or unplugging then plugging back in can help with static and outtages. If you keep getting static it could be interference from wifi or your phone (I always make sure my phone is 6-10 feet away from my amp). Also, I've never unplugged my amp before changing tubes and have never had a problem.


----------



## MacMan31

exchez said:


> Sometimes NOS tubes need a few days to settle in and swapping or unplugging then plugging back in can help with static and outtages. If you keep getting static it could be interference from wifi or your phone (I always make sure my phone is 6-10 feet away from my amp). Also, I've never unplugged my amp before changing tubes and have never had a problem.



Well Schiit does recommend unplugging the amp before swapping tubes. Also they say wait for the power light to go out. So could I just leave the tubes in and keep the amp on to "burn" them in? I swapped back to the stock tubes completely and everything is fine. So I know its not an issue with the amp.


----------



## exchez

MacMan31 said:


> Well Schiit does recommend unplugging the amp before swapping tubes. Also they say wait for the power light to go out. So could I just leave the tubes in and keep the amp on to "burn" them in? I swapped back to the stock tubes completely and everything is fine. So I know its not an issue with the amp.


Yeah, I would follow Schiit's instructions to be safe, but know that I've never damaged a tube by rolling it when the amp was off, but plugged in. Also, I would def wait for the tubes to cool or at least the light to be off completely. The V2 is very dependable so I would assume the issue is with the tube or electronic interference.

Burn in of 3-5 hours and 2-3 on/off cycles should be enough to stabilize the tube from dropouts and static. I've only had this happen for a couple of my tubes so take my advice with a grain of salt


----------



## MacMan31

exchez said:


> Yeah, I would follow Schiit's instructions to be safe, but know that I've never damaged a tube by rolling it when the amp was off, but plugged in. Also, I would def wait for the tubes to cool or at least the light to be off completely. The V2 is very dependable so I would assume the issue is with the tube or electronic interference.
> 
> Burn in of 3-5 hours and 2-3 on/off cycles should be enough to stabilize the tube from dropouts and static. I've only had this happen for a couple of my tubes so take my advice with a grain of salt



So after doing some various swaps it seems the issue is only with the GE 6CG7 / 6FQ7 tubes. The JJ E88CC / 6922 Gold tubes are fine. I have those in with the Novosibirsk 6N6p / 6H6pi tubes. So far so good. I do wish they had a bit brighter glow. The JJ E88CC / 6922 Gold tubes have barely any glow to them. I'm still waiting on the Brimar CV455 tubes but the adapters arrived today.


----------



## G0rt

MacMan31 said:


> So after doing some various swaps it seems the issue is only with the GE 6CG7 / 6FQ7 tubes. The JJ E88CC / 6922 Gold tubes are fine. I have those in with the Novosibirsk 6N6p / 6H6pi tubes. So far so good. I do wish they had a bit brighter glow. The JJ E88CC / 6922 Gold tubes have barely any glow to them. I'm still waiting on the Brimar CV455 tubes but the adapters arrived today.


You're in for a treat!

Mine arrived yesterday, and are just a few hours warm, but are already quite the tasty.

3am-ish, totally quiet town and house, VH2 on lo, Grado GH2/G, Bifrost 4490, and some John Kaizan I digitized myself from Tokyo vinyl, and it's ... Superb.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

Just an FYI regarding tube swapping.  Obviously powering the amp down and letting the power LED extinguish are no-brainers if you don't want a nasty surprise.  I always leave the power cord plugged in so that the unit is grounded.  That way I'm not going to risk ESD damage to any of the internal electronics.  Again, that also assumes I'm not going to go poking around the Valhalla's insides with a metal poker.  YMMV.


----------



## jonathan c

~ After extended listening to favourite jazz / R&B tracks through the Linear Tube Audio MZ3, I wanted to put the Valhalla II - with Foton 6N6Ps and Brimar CV455 KB/FBs - through the gauntlet. I was curious to see how close to the MZ3’s altitude the V-II could fly. Biggest shoes to fill, in my experience…a new set of shoes for the V-II for the occasion.
~ With the same tracks, the V-II constantly put a grin on my face:  the goods were being brought HOME 😆.
~ The MZ3 was not to be surpassed by V-II, but I felt a ‘perverse’ glee that the V-II gave the MZ3 a fabulous run for the money. Think bantamweight vs heavyweight for twelve rounds: no TKO, victory to heavyweight from point total. Again, a $349 base amp vs a ‘10X’ contender. With NOS tubes, a $600 amp vs a ‘8X’ contender.
~ If asked the question “what percent of the MZ3 performance does the V-II offer”, I say 90-95. I will absolutely keep both. To me: the MZ3 is ‘state of the art’, V-II is great beyond belief.


----------



## regaet

Thanks for this report! I have been listening to my Valhalla 2 with Foton 6N6Ps and Brimar CV455s coupled to a Bifrost 2 and a pair of Elears. I also bought a Wywires Platinum HPC at the same time I plugged the CV455s into the Valhalla about two months ago. The performance of my system has surpassed my expectations but I don't have access to better headphone systems to compare it to. Your comparison validates my impressions of the performance of this little amp .


----------



## didxogns1

Ripper2860 said:


> There may be better sounding tubes for Valhalla 2, but they are very few and far between.  The CV4033 is an excellent combo and no one would blame you if you stopped right there.  But we all know that's not gonna happen, right?



Hi, I have a question about the tube recommendation. 

I recently purchased a pair of cv4033 from 1970 after a lot of positive reviews in this thread from tubemonger. 

Link is https://www.tubemonger.com/Brimar_CV4033_NOS_NIB_1970_Prem_CV4003_STC_England_p/2040m.htm


I do like the detail that it provides in the high, it is too fatiguing for my ears. Additionally, the vocal is too recessed for my liking and I find myself rising the volume higher than I should (which might be why my ears are in pain oof) 

My question is, what would you recommend for someone looking for a very intimate, closed sound, with highlights in vocal/ acoustics?

It seems like Wes S's impression of Amperex 7308 is probably the closest thing to what I am looking for. However, I am hesitant to try because of the price of that tube. 

Do you have any other recommendations that I should look at? 

Additionally, foton 6n6p is recommended by many here. I also read that JJ ecc99 has a very solid and clear sound compared to the stock 6n6p. Has anyone tried both of them? if so, what is the difference? 

Thank you in advance to anyone who would like to help this lost soul. 

I wish I can try out all the tubes, but I am still a student so my budget is limited


----------



## G0rt

didxogns1 said:


> Hi, I have a question about the tube recommendation.
> 
> I recently purchased a pair of cv4033 from 1970 after a lot of positive reviews in this thread from tubemonger.
> 
> ...


How many hours do you have on the CV4033's?

I ask because most tubes tend to be brighter right out of the box, and mellow more or less as they 'burn in'.

Between 15-150 hours, things do change, and generally for the best.


----------



## didxogns1 (Sep 17, 2021)

G0rt said:


> How many hours do you have on the CV4033's?
> 
> I ask because most tubes tend to be brighter right out of the box, and mellow more or less as they 'burn in'.
> 
> Between 15-150 hours, things do change, and generally for the best.


I only had it for a week. So hopefully it will change. Burn-in is such a mystery area to me.


----------



## MacMan31

What is the difference between the BRIMAR CV4033 and Brimar CV455?


----------



## Ripper2860

Assuming same year and same plant, I believe the difference is that CV4033 is natively 'flying lead' with no base or pins and designed to be hardwired and soldered to circuit boards.  The TM versions have been adapted for 9 pin (Noval) socket use.   The CV455 is pretty much the CV4033 but natively terminated for use in sockets.


----------



## G0rt

didxogns1 said:


> I only had it for a week. So hopefully it will change. Burn-in is such a mystery area to me.


Burn-in can be a contentious topic. Lots of variables.

I've got some old 5965's in my Valhalla 2 lately. They were meant for digital use, flip-flops, multivibrators and such.

Regular tubes were unreliable in computers because of cathode poisoning, AKA 'sleeping sickness', a result of running the tubes at cutoff for much of their service life.

Cathodes are actually systems, with tungsten alloy heater filaments, inside nickel alloy sleeves coated with  porous rare earth compounds, all engineered to optimize electron emissions.

Researchers eventually found that, under cutoff conditions, various impurities in the nickel could migrate to form a resistive interface between the sleeve and the coating, dramatically reducing emissions. 

The same process happens under analog conditions, but much more slowly, over thousands of hours vs hundreds.

Back in the day, you could 'regenerate' a tube by briefly running the filament at higher than normal volts for a little while, breaking down that interface layer and restoring emissions, at least somewhat, and temporarily.

Tubes for digital service take special care to control alloy purity and such, and the best can expect a service life of 10's of thousands of hours.

Anyway, WRT break-in, it's not too farfetched to speculate that over decades of disuse, some similar electrolytic process could form a thin interface layer that would dissipate in a few 10's of hours of burn-in, perhaps audibly.

I'm no chemist, but I'm hearing no changes in my 5965's, so I started wondering why.


----------



## jonathan c

They may not be Jack Lemmon & Walter Matthau but they probably stand as this thread’s ‘odd couple’. Don’t snicker - they sing! (Audeze LCD-4: 200 ohms).


----------



## G0rt

Just to sort of complete the thought, having now studied, a little, the 1962 edition of RCA's Electron Tube Design, the evolved semiconductor interface between the actual cathode and its oxide layer can add some hundreds of ohms of resistance to the cathode circuit (and some small capacitance) which could be quite audible in most circuits. Just sayin'.

My triple mica, tall black plate Arcturus 5965's sound great. I got a pair of old IBM triple mica, tall black plate 5965's, and they sounded the same. I suspect both were actually made by RCA.

One of the IBM's developed a short, and a pin broke on one of the Arcturus, so now running the mixed survivors, and they sound: the same, at least as good, to my senses, as the Brimar CV455, CV4033, CV1988, RFT ECC81 and 7728 pairs I've recently tried.

5965's are plentiful and cheap, although the elite, military triple mica, tall black plates are running out. That seems to be the winning formula in any of the 12A class bottles.


----------



## regaet

Well Wes S. did it to me again! I said I was done for a while after buying the Brimar CV455's but when he started raving about the RFT ECC81's and I saw they were only $15.00 a tube I snagged a pair. When I first started listening to them the term "detail monsters" kept popping in my head and the soundstage was definitely improved but they had a tendency to be a bit bright and edgy. They kept improving and at about 50 to 60 hrs they really smoothed out and now at about 80 hrs they sound incredible. Everything Wes S said about them on the Mjolnir 2 thread is spot on. The other thing that keeps amazing me is that the Valhalla just keeps getting better with every improvement and $15.00 a tube is a steal!!


----------



## Wes S (Sep 29, 2021)

regaet said:


> Well Wes S. did it to me again! I said I was done for a while after buying the Brimar CV455's but when he started raving about the RFT ECC81's and I saw they were only $15.00 a tube I snagged a pair. When I first started listening to them the term "detail monsters" kept popping in my head and the soundstage was definitely improved but they had a tendency to be a bit bright and edgy. They kept improving and at about 50 to 60 hrs they really smoothed out and now at about 80 hrs they sound incredible. Everything Wes S said about them on the Mjolnir 2 thread is spot on. The other thing that keeps amazing me is that the Valhalla just keeps getting better with every improvement and $15.00 a tube is a steal!!


Yes sir!  Glad those RFT worked out for you.  The V2 is a magical amp no doubt, and just like with good tubes, it can scale with better DAC's as well.  I have since sold my V2, but I did listen to it with my Sonnet Morpheus right before I sold it, and it sounded insanely good with that pairing.  In fact, it's been months and I still can't get that sound out of my head. . .I can see myself owning another V2 in the future.


----------



## G0rt

Wes S said:


> Yes sir!  Glad those RFT worked out for you.  The V2 is a magical amp no doubt, and just like with good tubes, it can scale with better DAC's as well.  I have since sold my V2, but I did listen to it with my Sonnet Morpheus right before I sold it, and it sounded insanely good with that pairing.  In fact, it's been months and I still can't get that sound out of my head. . .I can see myself owning another V2 in the future.


Valhalla2 is a magical little amp, so much so that I don't mind at all trading off Mjolnir2, Asgard3 or Lyr3 to to enjoy it.

Special tubes deliver special benefits, and I can certainly hear the difference between Bifrost 4490 and OG Gungnir Multibit, although I have to say I do enjoy both.

The RFT are very tasty this morning. 😋


----------



## jonathan c (Sep 29, 2021)

Wes S said:


> Yes sir!  Glad those RFT worked out for you.  The V2 is a magical amp no doubt, and just like with good tubes, it can scale with better DAC's as well.  I have since sold my V2, but I did listen to it with my Sonnet Morpheus right before I sold it, and it sounded insanely good with that pairing.  In fact, it's been months and I still can't get that sound out of my head. . .I can see myself owning another V2 in the future.


Wes, take a look at posts #1,984 and #1,996…😜


----------



## jonathan c

I would love to see Jason Stoddard introduce a five-tube / six-tube Valhalla:  one / two rectifier tubes, two power tubes, two driver tubes…


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> Wes, take a look at post #1,984…😜


Oh yeah, that post has also been sticking in my mind.


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> I would love to see Jason Stoddard introduce a five-tube / six-tube Valhalla:  one / two rectifier tubes, two power tubes, two driver tubes…


I would love to see that too, minus a driver tube, as it's so much easier sourcing singles.


----------



## didxogns1

After some burn-in, I still didn't like the brimar cv 4033. 

Additionally, I wanted to experiment with the power tube, so I got ecc99. 

Tldr: I think the 12ax7 is a very good place for people to experiment.

I tried the PREFERRED SERIES 7025, which is a chinese copy/ reproduction of mallards 12ax7 from the 60s. 

I am very very happy with this choice. 


Cv4033 is fine musically, but I think this is more suited for people who listen to slower/ jazzy songs. 

The vocal is bit recessed. Things sound detailed and instruments really shines, but not lively when I listened to grunge/ hip-hop.

Which is all I listen. 

PREFERERED SERIES 7025 is the way. It got vocals, it got liveliness, energy. Yasser. 

I dont have much to compare this to, so I can't. But I think this is a great value proposition to anyone who wants to add fun to their sound, instead of more relaxed signature. ($50 for a pair) 


In terms of the power tubes, they all sound different significantly. 

Simply put: 

Stock 6n6p: very lively bass, but boi this is muddy. Compare to a ss amp, you can really feel the bass boost. 

Foton 6n6p: very flat fr sound. It adds airy fluff. 

Ecc99: very tight, but it can be harsh. Takes longer to heat up. 


With the preferered series 7025, I ended up liking the foton 6n6p the best. Ecc99 sounds too harsh with 7025. My ear hurts whenever there is cymble. 

Foton 6n6p smooth things out and add that tuby goodness without adding alot of distortion. You get the liveliness of 7025 + tuby smoothness that rounds the edge. 

Stock 6n6p makes the sound too funky. It just sounds bad. 


With cv4033: I actually liked the ecc99 the best, then stock 6n6p, then foton 6n6p. 

I really liked how detailed and clear ecc99 sounds with cv4033. It's nice, just not my style ATM. 

With the stock 6n6p atleast things sound fun with added bass. Really like the instruments with this combo. 

With foton 6n6p you get flat sound with not much energy. Alot of people here like this combo because of the fidelity and detail, but imo, I prefer fun sounding signature.


 What I learned from this is that tube rolling really is personal. There is no best setup. That's why it's called money pit i guess.


----------



## jonathan c (Sep 29, 2021)

didxogns1 said:


> What I learned from this is that tube rolling really is personal. There is no best setup. That's why it's called money pit i guess.


or…money down the tubes!…😖😜…


----------



## jonathan c (Sep 29, 2021)

~ The RFT ECC81s (w/Foton 6N6Ps) have been in Valhalla II for a few hours…CD replay at low medium volume…the curiosity had to be quelled…the headphones went on…HOLY MOLY, THE SOUNDSTAGE!…THE VOCALS!…THE ‘THERENESS’!….from $15 per tube in a $349 h/p amplifier??!!
~ Stephanie Mills & Teddy Pendergrass have never sounded better; Oscar Peterson takes it to Count Basie on the eighty-eights and the Count dishes it right back!
~ All this after a few hours; as the saying goes, “the best is yet to come”…Wes, you nailed it: there is Thor’s hammer and there is *WES’ *hammer…


----------



## jonathan c

While I continue my _very enthusiastic_ listening, I cannot help but think that the foil getter in the RFT ECC81 is making its mark. The getters in the Footscrays, as wondrous (to me) as they are, have no foil…🤔…hmm…


----------



## exchez

jonathan c said:


> While I continue my _very enthusiastic_ listening, I cannot help but think that the foil getter in the RFT ECC81 is making its mark. The getters in the Footscrays, as wondrous (to me) as they are, have no foil…🤔…hmm…


When I think of getters (i.e., not the flash deposit) I don't usually associate them with providing any sonic attributes beyond maybe providing some structural stability which could lead to less microphony. What about the foil getter is different from a typical halo or square getter?


----------



## jonathan c

exchez said:


> When I think of getters (i.e., not the flash deposit) I don't usually associate them with providing any sonic attributes beyond maybe providing some structural stability which could lead to less microphony. What about the foil getter is different from a typical halo or square getter?


I would say that the foil getter has a greater surface area than a halo or square getter. A greater surface area would allow for greater contact of getter deposits with gaseous impurities within the tube vacuum - maintaining the integrity and purity of the vacuum.


----------



## regaet (Sep 29, 2021)

Japanese Roots / Take'Dake' John Kaizan Neptune / One Fine Thing ( especially the ending) - Irvin Mayfield, The New Orleans Jazz Orchestra / Birds - Dominique Fils-Aime' and His Daughter (Acoustic version) - Molly Kate Kestner on Tidal are amazing with the RFT ECC81's in the Valhalla.


----------



## Wes S (Sep 30, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> While I continue my _very enthusiastic_ listening, I cannot help but think that the foil getter in the RFT ECC81 is making its mark. The getters in the Footscrays, as wondrous (to me) as they are, have no foil…🤔…hmm…


I have learned that the Foil Getters are where it's at.  My top 2 tubes, after trying a bunch (seriously quite a few of them) are the RFT ECC81/ECC82 and Tungsram Black Plates ECC82 both with Foil Disc Getters.  I don't know what sonics the getters actually bring, but I know they are the earliest version of the tubes, and as the saying goes. . .earlier is always better with tubes as they took more care and had more highly skilled people building them by hand in the early days.

I love the analogy of fine leather shoes made by the hands of a master craftsman (early made tubes with foil getters) vs. some mass produced "Walmart Specials" made by cheap labor with machines (later production tubes with O Getters).


----------



## Wes S (Sep 30, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> ~ The RFT ECC81s (w/Foton 6N6Ps) have been in Valhalla II for a few hours…CD replay at low medium volume…the curiosity had to be quelled…the headphones went on…HOLY MOLY, THE SOUNDSTAGE!…THE VOCALS!…THE ‘THERENESS’!….from $15 per tube in a $349 h/p amplifier??!!
> ~ Stephanie Mills & Teddy Pendergrass have never sounded better; Oscar Peterson takes it to Count Basie on the eighty-eights and the Count dishes it right back!
> ~ All this after a few hours; as the saying goes, “the best is yet to come”…Wes, you nailed it: there is Thor’s hammer and there is *WES’ *hammer…


Yes sir!  I see we have another happy camper.   I have yet to hear of anyone not being blown away by this tube, and the cat is most definitely out of the bag, as I have seen the ebay listing (12 or more available) get depleted and restocked several times now.


----------



## didxogns1

Wes S said:


> I have learned that the Foil Getters are where it's at.  My top 2 tubes, after trying a bunch (seriously quite a few of them) are the RFT ECC81/ECC82 and Tungsram Black Plates ECC82 both with Foil Disc Getters.  I don't know what sonics the getters actually bring, but I know they are the earliest version of the tubes, and as the saying goes. . .earlier is always better with tubes as they took more care and had more highly skilled people building them by hand in the early days.
> 
> I love the analogy of fine leather shoes made by the hands of a master craftsman (early made tubes with foil getters) vs. some mass produced "Walmart Specials" made by cheap labor with machines (later production tubes with O Getters).


****kk should I try rtf ecc81. 

I'm at a really good place, but they are pretty cheap......


----------



## didxogns1

Btw have anyone experienced any issues swapping to 12AT7/cv4003?

They have significantly higher gain factors (60), while 6n1p and its equivalents have gain factors of 33.

Heck, I am currently using 12AX7 which has a gain factor of 100.

I am a little bit concerned because I read that using a higher gain preamp tube than what the circuit is designed for can damage the circuit/ amp.


----------



## G0rt

didxogns1 said:


> Btw have anyone experienced any issues swapping to 12AT7/cv4003?
> 
> They have significantly higher gain factors (60), while 6n1p and its equivalents have gain factors of 33.
> 
> ...


Nothing to worry about. 

Schiit amps are competently designed, and constant current biasing and local feedback keeps everything under control.

Too much tube gain could get noisy, too little could limit drive for demanding cans, but in general it's all good.


----------



## G0rt

Wes S said:


> I have learned that the Foil Getters are where it's at.  My top 2 tubes, after trying a bunch (seriously quite a few of them) are the RFT ECC81/ECC82 and Tungsram Black Plates ECC82 both with Foil Disc Getters.  I don't know what sonics the getters actually bring, but I know they are the earliest version of the tubes, and as the saying goes. . .earlier is always better with tubes as they took more care and had more highly skilled people building them by hand in the early days.
> 
> I love the analogy of fine leather shoes made by the hands of a master craftsman (early made tubes with foil getters) vs. some mass produced "Walmart Specials" made by cheap labor with machines (later production tubes with O Getters).


This is probably the bottom line, that getter details are of interest primarily as rough indicators of period of manufacture.

Based on a quick canvas of available materials, my understanding is that once a getter is flashed, the frame or supporting structure, or 'flag', plays no further role in tube operations. At all.

The actual gettering is done by the deposited material, in small signal bottles usually some aluminum/barium alloy.

Electrodes outgas during the service life of the tube, or none of this would matter.


----------



## bokononista

Hi everybody,
after reading the hype about Brimar CV455 and CV4033, i ordered both. I have to let you know, CV4033 is really the endgame, i didnt expect so much improvement. I cant find any negative, just great resolution, slam, dynamics, microdynamics, FR, just everything is excelent . I am not so happy about CV455, for me there is some gloom? in sound, less slam and less resolution. It is not bad, CV455 are still one of the best tubes i had in the Valhalla. I think CV455 are somewhere at 70% of CV4033 about sound quality in a general. I did tests with Beyerdynamics T1.1, Sennheiser HD800s and HD600. Rear tubes are Foton gold grids.


----------



## JollyGreen

Would you guys consider adding a Lokius EQ to my Valhalla 2/Modius setup to be......blasphemy? lol

I know you want to "hear" the tubes, but is anyone using an eq with this amp? I'm craving more schiit


----------



## jonathan c

JollyGreen said:


> Would you guys consider adding a Lokius EQ to my Valhalla 2/Modius setup to be......blasphemy? lol
> 
> I know you want to "hear" the tubes, but is anyone using an eq with this amp? I'm craving more schiit


What tubes are you using in Valhalla II? With Foton 6N6Ps in the back and RFT ECC81s in the front (on adapters), the thought of EQ never crosses my mind.


----------



## regaet

jonathan c said:


> What tubes are you using in Valhalla II? With Foton 6N6Ps in the back and RFT ECC81s in the front (on adapters), the thought of EQ never crosses my mind.


Unfortunately, they are sold out. (RFT ECC81's) Although the Brimars are still available.


----------



## JollyGreen

OOHhhhhhh no, I'm not getting sucked back into THIS discussion again lol. I've tried 10 different sets of tubes now and none of them sound SO much different that I would ever consider buying another pair again. Some are a little warmer, some are brighter, but at the end of the day, the set that it comes with is just fine. I wish I would've learned that lesson a few hundred dollars ago.  But I'm not concerned with the tubes anymore. Tubes are fine, I'm curious if anyone is using an EQ and if anyone has specifically used the Lokius and if it's worth putting in my Schiit stack. 

This thread is low-key an addiction to minute, subtle differences you guys are hearing in your head lol. I'm not convinced tube manufacturers didn't start this thread to offload some hhaha.


----------



## regaet

JollyGreen said:


> OOHhhhhhh no, I'm not getting sucked back into THIS discussion again lol. I've tried 10 different sets of tubes now and none of them sound SO much different that I would ever consider buying another pair again. Some are a little warmer, some are brighter, but at the end of the day, the set that it comes with is just fine. I wish I would've learned that lesson a few hundred dollars ago.  But I'm not concerned with the tubes anymore. Tubes are fine, I'm curious if anyone is using an EQ and if anyone has specifically used the Lokius and if it's worth putting in my Schiit stack.
> 
> This thread is low-key an addiction to minute, subtle differences you guys are hearing in your head lol. I'm not convinced tube manufacturers didn't start this thread to offload some hhaha.


Then my answer would be a Bifrost 2.


----------



## JollyGreen

regaet said:


> Then my answer would be a Bifrost 2.


Bifrost is a DAC, no? I have a Modius satisfying those needs. It's not multibit, but it gets the job done better than my last one.


----------



## Blacksun

I recently upgraded earlier this year from a Modius to a BiFrost 2, CONSIDERABLE difference!!!   Last week I received a LIM Yggdrasil and another improvement...  Personally I couldn't recommend more the upgrading up to a BiFrost 2 from Modius. Worth EVERY cent!!!


----------



## JollyGreen

Blacksun said:


> I recently upgraded earlier this year from a Modius to a BiFrost 2, CONSIDERABLE difference!!!   Last week I received a LIM Yggdrasil and another improvement...  Personally I couldn't recommend more the upgrading up to a BiFrost 2 from Modius. Worth EVERY cent!!!


I would never spend $2k on a DAC but it's your money big baller! Let me get that Bifrost 2 from you since you don't need it anymore lol


----------



## Jbucla2005

JJ ECC99 works in VH2 with ECC99 to 6H30 adaptors.


----------



## jonathan c

JollyGreen said:


> I would never spend $2k on a DAC but it's your money big baller!…


That is reasonable if $2K is genuinely beyond budget tolerance. If that is a “humbug” stance, you may be (are) missing out. If your music comes from digital sources, the DAC is often the most important component - if sonic resemblance to actual music matters.


----------



## Jbucla2005 (Oct 11, 2021)

Jbucla2005 said:


> JJ ECC99 works in VH2 with ECC99 to 6H30 adaptors.



I’m still enjoying the ECC99’s in the VH2. I’m using new production Tung Sol 12AT7’s with adaptors in the front. Overall I’d say the ECC99’s are slightly bright but also nicely lush, and possibly an upgrade over the stock tubes. I’m surprised that not many people have tried this tube.


----------



## didxogns1

regaet said:


> Unfortunately, they are sold out. (RFT ECC81's) Although the Brimars are still available.


https://www.thetubestore.com/rft-ecc81-12at7 they arevaialbe here


----------



## didxogns1

Some more tube rolling.

Previously, 

I opted for the preferred series 7025 as my favorite. Plugging this to heddphone, everything sounded so intimate lively and fun! 

However, when I used VH2 as a preamp, connecting to KGSS DX - Stax L700, everything it sounded so hollow and lifeless  

I don't know why this is the case, but I was shocked and disappointed how "situational" this tube was. 

One of the headfier recommended RFT ECC81. While I was at it, I bought ECC82 (12AU7), and Tung Sol 12AU7 as well. 

Here is a quick impression of these three with my Stax L700. 

My goal for this was to find a tube that sounds good in both of my grails (heddphone and L700)

As said before, I hate the neutral sound. I hate HD 600's sound signature. I love vocals. I love rap, r&b, etc. 

I prefer anything that sounds lively and intimate. 

Please keep that in mind. 


Tung Sol 12AU7: I don't know what to say. I don't like it. It sucks. 


RFT ECC81, ECC82: I like to review these two at once because these two are the best sounding tubes IMO. They sound really really freaking different thou. 

RFT ECC 82 is the tube you need to buy syrupy sound. I always didn't understand when people say tube amplifier makes sound syrupy and gooey. That changed when I listen to Gloria Tells - Come Clean. This is sticky! Some tubes are tuby in a bad way (e.g. Tung Sol 12AU7). They are too dark, muddy, and lifeless. However, ECC82 accentuates the bass just enough to keep things lit! Bad and Boujee sounds badddddd. 

While this is the perfect tube for ppl who primarily listen to rap/r&b, this tube is not good for soft vocals. For example, when I listen to kpop by BOL4, her soft whisper-like vocal is just faded behind the instrumentals. This was the main reason I choose to run ECC 81. 


RFT ECC81 is quite the opposite in terms of the sound signature. Great treble and highs. Pretty lacking bass. I really like that vocal is forward on this one. However, it is fatiguing over time. I am mainly running this as my primary tube because it doesn't sound bad on bass-heavy songs, while does well with female vocals. 

That being said, I might change back to RFT ECC82 if the sound doesn't change after burn-in. This is just too fatiguing.


----------



## regaet

didxogns1 said:


> https://www.thetubestore.com/rft-ecc81-12at7 they arevaialbe here


Not the same tube.


----------



## Wes S (Oct 12, 2021)

regaet said:


> Not the same tube.


Yep, those are latter production.  Slight changes in construction can yield quite different results in sound and the Folded plates and foil getter RFT ECC81 has more and better quality bass than pretty much any other tube in the family.

The RFT ECC81 Folded Plate Foil Disc Getter gets the approval from this basshead.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> The RFT ECC81 Folded Plate Foil Disc Getter gets the approval from this basshead.


Indeed!….better to be a basshead than a basshole….🤪😜….


----------



## JollyGreen

Hey guys, QQ If I wanted to run some speakers from my Valhallas 2 (like on my desktop) how would that work? Would i need powered speakers, or unpowered speakers considering its an amp?


----------



## jonathan c

G0rt piqued my curiosity with his discussion of the RCA 5965. So I ordered a few for rotation in the Valhalla II. Those that I now own look like triple mica, have ‘tall’ grey plates. The d-getter looks to be attached to the top mica which itself has a very shiny underside. It almost seems to be a form of foil getter 🤔….Anyway, I look forward to giving these 5965s a go….battle of the “R”s:  CA versus FT….One last query: should I be concerned about the RCA filament current of 450 mA versus the RFT filament current of 300 mA? Or will Valhalla II accommodate that?


----------



## G0rt

jonathan c said:


> G0rt piqued my curiosity with his discussion of the RCA 5965. So I ordered a few for rotation in the Valhalla II. Those that I now own look like triple mica, have ‘tall’ grey plates. The d-getter looks to be attached to the top mica which itself has a very shiny underside. It almost seems to be a form of foil getter 🤔….Anyway, I look forward to giving these 5965s a go….battle of the “R”s:  CA versus FT….One last query: should I be concerned about the RCA filament current of 450 mA versus the RFT filament current of 300 mA? Or will Valhalla II accommodate that?


I've used CV1988's in VH2, which are 600 mA each, with no issues. I use 5965's in VH2 for hours and hours, with no issues.

All the tubes are on adaptors or savers, which helps keep things cool(er.)


----------



## jonathan c

G0rt said:


> I've used CV1988's in VH2, which are 600 mA each, with no issues. I use 5965's in VH2 for hours and hours, with no issues.
> 
> All the tubes are on adaptors or savers, which helps keep things cool(er.)


Thank you for the response.


----------



## jonathan c

JollyGreen said:


> Hey guys, QQ If I wanted to run some speakers from my Valhallas 2 (like on my desktop) how would that work? Would i need powered speakers, or unpowered speakers considering its an amp?


You could connect Valhalla II to powered speakers or to a speaker amplifier which is connected to unpowered speakers. In either case, you would use the preamp output RCA plugs.


----------



## jonathan c (Oct 13, 2021)

Before I open up the Valhalla II: what is the fuse value and type (Amperes / Fast v Timed)? I would like to put in a Synergistic Research or Hifi-Tunings fuse as a replacement / upgrade.


----------



## G0rt

jonathan c said:


> G0rt piqued my curiosity with his discussion of the RCA 5965. So I ordered a few for rotation in the Valhalla II. Those that I now own look like triple mica, have ‘tall’ grey plates. The d-getter looks to be attached to the top mica which itself has a very shiny underside. It almost seems to be a form of foil getter 🤔….Anyway, I look forward to giving these 5965s a go….battle of the “R”s:  CA versus FT….One last query: should I be concerned about the RCA filament current of 450 mA versus the RFT filament current of 300 mA? Or will Valhalla II accommodate that?


I'm finding 5965's Big Fun(tm) in part because they're cheap and plentiful, and because they were made in many variants, long and short plates, black and gray, 2 and 3 mica, various getters. 

They were introduced in 1954, and were made for at least a decade.

All that I've tried so far have overall similar characteristics, which I attribute to their Mu and Gm, a bit lower than the other popular types.

My impression is of greater headroom, relaxed without being lazy, with effortless macro dynamics. Not the exorbitant air of those special RFT ECC81's but luscious mids and a tight bottom that I really like.

The lower gain means it takes more knob, but that also makes for precise setting, too. I don't mind.

Cheap thrills.🤗


----------



## JollyGreen

I really like my Electro Harmonix 6922s but I decided to give my E88CC Gold Lions another try. I wasn't a fan of them at first, but maybe they will sound better with some break in? They were like twice as expensive as the Electro Harmonix, but I like the EH better? I dunno maybe I just prefer that sound, it sounds more clear. The Lions sound a bit muffled kind of like a blanket is over the sound.


----------



## JollyGreen

Damn it, i'm angry with myself for jumping back into this thread. Can anyone recommend some SUPER detailed tubes for Ambient music listening? I listed to a lot of Thom Brennan, Bioshpere, Carbon Based Lifeforms, REAL ambient downtempo stuff that can give you the brain tickles and benefits from lots of airiness and clarity.


----------



## regaet

JollyGreen said:


> Damn it, i'm angry with myself for jumping back into this thread. Can anyone recommend some SUPER detailed tubes for Ambient music listening? I listed to a lot of Thom Brennan, Bioshpere, Carbon Based Lifeforms, REAL ambient downtempo stuff that can give you the brain tickles and benefits from lots of airiness and clarity.


----------



## carbonF1

Hi everyone, new to Head-Fi but have been following this thread pretty extensively. I've had my Valhalla 2 for a little under a year now, and enjoying it immensely. After seeing all the rave reviews for Brimar CV-4033's, I thought I'd give them a try. Ordered from Pulse Tube Store on the 2nd, and they are already here! Only for a few hours, but still here, and in my amp!






I'm not sure what I should be more shocked with, how these '57 triple-mica Footscray tubes sound, or that Fedex delivered when they said they would, and exactly on time! It hasn't been long enough to say anything definitive, but so far I am really, really liking what I hear. Thank you Sanjiv/Pulse Tubes for shipping these so well and for making these available direct! Everything came in a nice case and I am a happy customer 





(no, you are not seeing double, there is also a matched pair of '60 Rochester Brimar CV-4033's in the smaller white boxes, but we aren't going to talk about those. let's just call it a happy accident/accidentally buying these instead of impulse buying Gold Lion 6922's from amazon 🖼️)


----------



## regaet

They will improve as they burn in!


----------



## carbonF1

regaet said:


> They will improve as they burn in!



I should have taken the @Wes S approach and requested a few days off work to get acclimated


----------



## jonathan c

carbonF1 said:


> I should have taken the @Wes S approach and requested a few days off work to get acclimated


@Wes S knows all the intricacies of the FTLA: Family Tube Leave Act. He is especially expert in “rolling” FTLA days into the next year…😆…


----------



## Wes S (Oct 14, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> @Wes S knows all the intricacies of the FTLA: Family Tube Leave Act. He is especially expert in “rolling” FTLA days into the next year…😆…


LOL!  Really funny ya'll should mention it!  I am on another FTLA right now, as I am typing this.   I have a very understanding boss, and I told him how enamored I am right now with a certain pair of headphones and amp (Atticus & Pendant SE), and he let me go home early from work to get back to pure audio bliss.    I hope none of my other coworkers are reading this. . .the perks of seniority.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> LOL!  Really funny ya'll should mention it!  I am on another FTLA right now, as I am typing this.   I have a very understanding boss, and I told him how enamored I am right now with a certain pair of headphones and amp (Atticus & Pendant SE), and he let me go home early from work to get back to pure audio bliss.    I hope none of my other coworkers are reading this. . .the perks of seniority.


In rank or age?…


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> In rank or age?…


Rank and age.


----------



## Lvivske

JollyGreen said:


> Would you guys consider adding a Lokius EQ to my Valhalla 2/Modius setup to be......blasphemy? lol
> 
> I know you want to "hear" the tubes, but is anyone using an eq with this amp? I'm craving more schiit



I'm the big EQ addict here, so yes



JollyGreen said:


> Bifrost is a DAC, no? I have a Modius satisfying those needs. It's not multibit, but it gets the job done better than my last one.



I found the Bifrost made less of a difference over my budget DAC than upgrading tubes did, so if you dont hear differences in tubes you should avoid the DAC rabbithole

But if you're not picking up tone or impact changes, maybe focus on upgrading your cans first


----------



## regaet

Lvivske said:


> I found the Bifrost made less of a difference over my budget DAC than upgrading tubes did, so if you dont hear differences in tubes you should avoid the DAC rabbithole
> 
> But if you're not picking up tone or impact changes, maybe focus on upgrading your cans first


Have you tried putting your old DAC back in to see if you notice more of a difference now? I'm not disagreeing that the tubes make a big difference. Just curious.


----------



## Lvivske

regaet said:


> Have you tried putting your old DAC back in to see if you notice more of a difference now? I'm not disagreeing that the tubes make a big difference. Just curious.


I did a lot of A/B testing and could tell the differences for sure, but the upgrade wasn't as impactful as the tube upgrade.

and going in i was way more confident in the dac investment and way more skeptical of the hipster tubes, so no confirmation bias or anything like that


----------



## tjdub (Oct 18, 2021)

I've been reading back and I see a lot of you prefer the ECC81 to pair with the valhalla would these be a good example of them?   https://pulsetubestore.com/products...play-ready-to-use?_pos=1&_sid=d6d6d5efd&_ss=r


----------



## JollyGreen

Lvivske said:


> I'm the big EQ addict here, so yes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm using the Sennheiser 6XX which came highly recommended from some friends and other hi-fi forums. I've enjoyed them so far, but I'm a poor IT guy. I don't have funds to make huge upgrades. My turntable is a Fluance, I use a Schiit mani phono preamp, some $300 powered shelf speakers, and then this headphone setup referenced earlier. That's about all I can afford.

I'm kinda stuck at this level of listening for a while (it's not bad). I have 24/192 capabilities on my headphone setup on my PC and my vinyl sounds.... Fine. For a $1000 setup total my vinyl sounds fine. I'm sure it could sound better for me than double the cost but that's just not something I'll ever know and I'm trying real hard not to let the "but there's always something better" drive me to be disappointed with what I already have. That's not a happy way to live IMO.


----------



## Lvivske

Yeah in that case I dont think a DAC upgrade will help with the vinyl much


----------



## JollyGreen

Lvivske said:


> Yeah in that case I dont think a DAC upgrade will help with the vinyl much





Lvivske said:


> Yeah in that case I dont think a DAC upgrade will help with the vinyl much


I'm not actually sure how we got on DACS? I'm happy with my DAC and DACs have nothing to do with vinyl. I was referencing the use of a Lokius EQ in my headphone stereo chain with me Valhalla 2 and Modius, I was just listing my vinyl setup as a point of reference to how little I can afford lol. A grand for top to bottom vinyl listening setup is not very much


----------



## Lvivske

JollyGreen said:


> was referencing the use of a Lokius EQ in my headphone stereo chain with me Valhalla 2 and Modius


I think analog EQ is a great way to achieve the sound you want and I couldn't live with my Valhalla without the Lokius (but I have very bright headphones that need tuning)


----------



## JollyGreen

Lvivske said:


> I think analog EQ is a great way to achieve the sound you want and I couldn't live with my Valhalla without the Lokius (but I have very bright headphones that need tuning)


Thanks, another question then. Since I have a DAC with Balanced input, and this EQ has balanced input, should I run PC > Balanced output to  DAC > Balanced out to RCA in on the valhalla ? ( i may want to get a balanced headphone amp in the future Magnius or something like that). 

Can you run balanced for most of the chain, then end that chain with single? or does it have to be balanced the whole way or single the whole way? I realize it won't benefit from the balanced if it ends with single, but just making sure thats a thing that can happen and won't hurt anything running it balanced up until the amp, then going single.


----------



## Lvivske

JollyGreen said:


> this EQ has balanced input, should I run PC > Balanced output to  DAC > Balanced out to RCA in on the valhalla ?


PC balanced output? Balanced out to RCA? Sorry I dont understand this chain you typed out



JollyGreen said:


> Can you run balanced for most of the chain, then end that chain with single? or does it have to be balanced the whole way or single the whole way? I realize it won't benefit from the balanced if it ends with single, but just making sure thats a thing that can happen and won't hurt anything running it balanced up until the amp, then going single.



Yes you can mix, people who want balanced do it for the whole way through otherwise its all the same. The Lokius is internally singled ended so it really doesnt matter.


----------



## JollyGreen

Lvivske said:


> PC balanced output? Balanced out to RCA? Sorry I dont understand this chain you typed out
> 
> 
> 
> Yes you can mix, people who want balanced do it for the whole way through otherwise its all the same. The Lokius is internally singled ended so it really doesnt matter.


I guess im uncertain then how to run a FULLY balanced setup with Schiit? If I have a Modius and a Magnius, then want to add a Lokius, it introduces a single ended stage? I thought the lokius had balanced on the back from the photos because it appears to have both balanced in and out? What do you mean when you say "its single ended internally" then? That's the confusing bit for me


----------



## Lvivske

JollyGreen said:


> I guess im uncertain then how to run a FULLY balanced setup with Schiit? If I have a Modius and a Magnius, then want to add a Lokius, it introduces a single ended stage? I thought the lokius had balanced on the back from the photos because it appears to have both balanced in and out? What do you mean when you say "its single ended internally" then? That's the confusing bit for me


it has balanced inputs and outputs for accessibility but isn't balanced in the true sense

it's on schiit's FAQ page



> *Even more tech. Is this thing really balanced?*
> It’s balanced and differential in and out, uses both phases in, and provides both differential phases out. However, EQ processing is done with a single-ended buffer and gain stage.
> 
> *Why not “real balanced?”*
> Because the product would be twice the size, twice the heat, and maybe even more than twice the cost. We decided to put the money into a discrete dual-stage load-invariant superbuffer driving a discrete current-feedback gain stage, as well as custom inductors and quality capacitors, rather than trying to chase balanced-for-balanced-sake. If it makes you feel better, use the SE input and run the SE output into any of our Nexus™ products for a perfect SE-to-balanced conversion with an all-discrete stage; but, better yet, have a listen and decide if you like what it does, rather than worrying about technical minutiae.


----------



## JollyGreen

Lvivske said:


> it has balanced inputs and outputs for accessibility but isn't balanced in the true sense
> 
> it's on schiit's FAQ page


geez, why does everything have to be so complicated lol. It seems no matter how much I do research, there is always something I don't know, and the answer is always "you can't afford to do it better". To have a great sounding, fully end to end balanced headphone setup you have to spend like 10k or something wild like that, or spend all of your days wishing you had something "better". I'm not "unhappy" with my sound I guess, but i'm just BOMBARDED by people bragging about how much better all their high end setups are that it makes me feel like i'm missing out on ever hearing things "good" enough.


----------



## JollyGreen

I'm finding that much in the same way that Social Media is very poor for your mental health, tech videos on YouTube are equally as bad for my mental health. I have no idea how people afford such things, and it makes me feel like a bit of a failure that I cannot afford them. It's a crappy spot to put yourself in, so I guess i'm back to concinving myself that buying some esoteric $25 tubes will make my headphone setup sound better over and over lol


----------



## Ripper2860 (Oct 18, 2021)

Welcome to your new affliction -- *AUDIO NERVOSA!! *

The difference between well executed balanced and well executed single ended is practically nil and inaudible unless running very long inter-connect cables, you are in a high EMI/RFI situation, or your HP must have the needed additional power delivered via a true balanced HP amp. 

Do you like what you hear?  Then just enjoy the music.


----------



## JollyGreen

Ripper2860 said:


> Welcome to your new affliction -- *AUDIO NERVOSA!! *
> 
> The difference between well executed balanced and well executed single ended is practically nil and inaudible unless running very long inter-connect cables, you are in a high EMI/RFI situation, or your HP must have the needed additional power delivered via a true balanced HP amp.
> 
> Do you like what you hear?  Then just enjoy the music.


BUT.......BUT......MOAR !


----------



## JollyGreen

Ok new question. Since the Valhalla 2 is (technically) an Integrated amp (headphone amp (power) and preamp (control) ) does that mean I can use it as a preamp and hook an Aegir up to it as the power? 

Or would I be better off buying a different dedicated pre-amp for that?


----------



## Ripper2860

Why not start with VH2 as a preamp and see what you think about it?  It is certainly up to the task as long as 1 source (or a Sys switch for 2) is satisfactory.


----------



## jonathan c

This is not a tube roll, but a fuse roll - except that this one stays in Valhalla II. What is it? Hi-Fi Tuning Supreme (1A/timed). What does it bring? Wider dynamic range, greater ‘heft’, more ‘thereness’ (a term that Wes loves) to an already great h/p/a.


----------



## Ripper2860

jonathan c said:


> This is not a tube roll, but a fuse roll - except that this one stays in Valhalla II. What is it? Hi-Fi Tuning Supreme (1A/timed). What does it bring? Wider dynamic range, greater ‘heft’, more ‘thereness’ (a term that Wes loves) to an already great h/p/a.


Riiiiight.  🙄



(  Link to the fuse, please.  😀 )


----------



## Lvivske (Oct 18, 2021)

TELL US ABOUT THE FUSE

edit:

https://www.vhaudio.com/hifi-tuning.html

which one? small....fast?

edit: oh god there's so many fuses on this site, how much does this even matter


----------



## jonathan c (Oct 18, 2021)

The fuse for the Valhalla II is: ‘small’ (5x20mm), ‘1A’ (Ampere), ‘T’ (Timed a/k/a Slow). To replace the fuse will require removing tubes, unscrewing _all_ the screws, taking off the volume knob and related nut/washer, sliding the PCB out to access the fuse clip…

EDIT:  a literal/narrow implication of the “no user serviceable parts inside” clause on the back of the Valhalla II is that fuse replacement by a user may invalidate the warranty.


----------



## jonathan c

Ripper2860 said:


> Riiiiight.  🙄
> 
> 
> 
> (  Link to the fuse, please.  😀 )


🙄 of doubt?, try it out 🎼🎶😄…


----------



## Lvivske (Oct 18, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> The fuse for the Valhalla II is: ‘small’ (5x20mm), ‘1A’ (Ampere), ‘T’ (Timed a/k/a Slow). To replace the fuse will require removing tubes, unscrewing _all_ the screws, taking off the volume knob and related nut/washer, sliding the PCB out to access the fuse clip…



no prob i've been gutting amps lately

is there a reason you're on this brand in particular?

edit: hifi tuning supreme seems to have the "aug/ag" type (silver color) and the "cu" type (gold color, 'warmer' in description)


----------



## jonathan c (Oct 18, 2021)

Lvivske said:


> no prob i've been gutting amps lately
> 
> is there a reason you're on this brand in particular?


I have used this brand and Synergistic Research. The HiFi Tuning product description and manufacture caught my attention (cryogenics etc)…

EDIT:  Amps have been gutting your wallet…


----------



## Lvivske

jonathan c said:


> I have used this brand and Synergistic Research. The HiFi Tuning product description and manufacture caught my attention (cryogenics etc)…
> 
> EDIT:  Amps have been gutting your wallet…



I've been bargain hunting 

The Synergistics, did you try it out yet? The RED model has an interesting description ("further refinement, with smoother highs and more linear frequency extension.")


----------



## Ripper2860 (Oct 18, 2021)

I replaced the fuse in my Lyr3 with Hifii Tuning some time ago and as I recall the sonic improvement was noticeable.  Slight but improved.  Or was that expectation bias?  Schiit, I don't know.  😒

If one notices an improvement,  whether real or perceived, does it really matter.  😜

(Hmmmm.  I wonder what type of fuses are in BF2 and Ragnarok.  😀)


----------



## Lvivske

$100 for a slight but noticeable improvement is pretty choice by audiophile standards


----------



## Ripper2860

True.  But the best investment with the greatest impact could be had for as little as $50.


----------



## Lvivske

will it make the voices go away?


----------



## jonathan c (Oct 18, 2021)

Ripper2860 said:


> I replaced the fuse in my Lyr3 with Hifii Tuning some time ago and as I recall the sonic improvement was noticeable.  Slight but improved.  Or was that expectation bias?  Schiit, I don't know.  😒
> 
> If one notices an improvement,  whether real or perceived, does it really matter.  😜
> 
> (Hmmmm.  I wonder what type of fuses are in BF2 and Ragnarok.  😀)


Since the electricity has to go through the fuse before other “innards” of a component, the more electrically transparent (the fewer any spurious byproducts from) the fuse, the more effectively the component is powered. 🤷🏻


----------



## jonathan c

Lvivske said:


> I've been bargain hunting
> 
> The Synergistics, did you try it out yet? The RED model has an interesting description ("further refinement, with smoother highs and more linear frequency extension.")


I have SR Orange in Woo WA2….nice! I have not (probably will not) A-B test Hifi Tuning vs Synergistic Research. Of my h/p/a, some (will) have HFT, others (will) have SR. Rolling fuses is not what I envision.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Oct 18, 2021)

Lvivske said:


> will it make the voices go away?


No, but they will have a much more vast soundstage, improved imaging, and a tad more air and space.


----------



## Lvivske

interesting thread on the topic (1 guy thinks SR is relabelling cheapo fuses?)

https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/comment/2651972

might just look for the lowest cost HFT Supreme I can find and give it a whirl, though the SR Reds are on sale for like 60ish....flip a coin

my Val is over 10 years old so maybe I'll justify it to myself on that


----------



## Ripper2860

jonathan c said:


> Since the electricity has to go through the fuse before other “innards” of a component, the more electrically transparent (the fewer any spurious byproducts in) the fuse, the more effectively the component is powered. 🤷🏻


That's true only if the fuse filament is made of SPOCC wire.  😏


----------



## Lvivske (Oct 18, 2021)

Paul endorses the Hifi Tuning, I'm sold



reddit, on the other hand (r/audiophile) is hating on this concept like no tomorrow (even accusing PS Audio of shilling fuses they dont make)


----------



## G0rt

All properly raised audiophile chilluns already know copper pennies make the bestest fuzes, and the 1909 S VDB sounds fine for jazz, and doesn't even need cryo to planetarily align Abe's atoms.

Just sayin.🤫


----------



## Wes S (Oct 19, 2021)

Speaking of fuses. . . I have a Synergistic Research Purple fuse out for delivery as I am typing this, and can't wait to hear what my first audiophile grade fuse can do.   

Having done a ton of reading and research, the SR Orange fuse has more positive reviews than any other fuse out there.  Many times I have read people changing from the Hifi Tuning Supreme to the SR Orange and noticing an improvement, so I went with SR.  The Purple version just came out a couple of days ago and is the new SR "Flagship" fuse, so should be even better than the orange. . .


----------



## GumbyDammit223

Ripper2860 said:


> Riiiiight.  🙄
> 
> 
> 
> (  Link to the fuse, please.  😀 )


Call me old fashioned, but an old Bussman or Littlefuse would be perfectly acceptable.  If you believe Schiit didn't use something like that, then I'll have what you've been drinking!


----------



## Lvivske

Read a review saying this about the Supreme's: "The silver option was a little crisper and even higher resolution, the copper option a little warmer, but hardly less detailed."

Think the valhalla/brimar-455 would pair better with _warmer_ or _crisper_? Same price, coin toss situation, need a tie breaker


----------



## Wes S

Ripper2860 said:


> True.  But the best investment with the greatest impact could be had for as little as $50.


I was amazed the first time I cleaned my ears out!  Talk about a positive change.  I often think people who chase detail and love a bright sound, might just need to clean their ears out. . .


----------



## Wes S

Lvivske said:


> Read a review saying this about the Supreme's: "The silver option was a little crisper and even higher resolution, the copper option a little warmer, but hardly less detailed."
> 
> Think the valhalla/brimar-455 would pair better with _warmer_ or _crisper_? Same price, coin toss situation, need a tie breaker


The deciding factor between the 2 Supremes might actually come down to availability, not sonic differences or a coin toss, as the silver version is made in a bunch of sizes and the copper is not.


----------



## Wes S (Oct 19, 2021)

Lvivske said:


> interesting thread on the topic (1 guy thinks SR is relabelling cheapo fuses?)
> 
> https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/comment/2651972
> 
> ...


Key thing there is 1 guy, and I read that too.  He actually likes and uses SR fuses, from what I gather.


----------



## Lvivske

Wes S said:


> The deciding factor between the 2 Supremes might actually come down to availability, not sonic differences or a coin toss, as the silver version is made in a bunch of sizes and the copper is not.



got both in my cart, same price

(slow blow 1A 5x20mm if I'm remembering properly?)


----------



## Wes S

Lvivske said:


> got both in my cart, same price
> 
> (slow blow 1A 5x20mm if I'm remembering properly?)


Nice!  The size I need is only available in silver.


----------



## Wes S

I imagine the Hifi Tuning Supreme sound much better than the stock fuses, and they are definitely more affordable. . .I just can't past all the reviews I have read leading me toward the SR Purple.  If the Purple does not blow my hair back within 30 days, I will simply get my money back, and then try a Hifi Tuning Supreme.  So, with all the negative stuff you will find about SR online, it's still hard to best a 30 day trial no hassle return policy.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> I imagine the Hifi Tuning Supreme sound much better than the stock fuses, and they are definitely more affordable. . .I just can't past all the reviews I have read leading me toward the SR Purple.  If the Purple does not blow *grow *my hair back within 30 days, I will simply get my money back, and then try a Hifi Tuning Supreme.  So, with all the negative stuff you will find about SR online, it's still hard to best a 30 day trial no hassle return policy.


FTFY [Reg. TM; © bcowen: 2021]   😜😆


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Nice!  The size I need is only available in silver.


The Rogue RH-5 is one of the few h/p/a in my experience that uses the 6.3x32mm size…


----------



## Lvivske (Oct 19, 2021)

Keep reading about fuse swapping in DACs....oh god does this need to happen too? 

edit: popped open the RebelAmp to see if that was possible too but dont see a fuse anywhere


----------



## jonathan c

Lvivske said:


> Keep reading about fuse swapping in DACs....oh god does this need to happen too?
> 
> edit: popped open the RebelAmp to see if that was possible too but dont see a fuse anywhere


The fuse for the Rebel is in a sliding compartment next to the IEC plug on the back of the amplifier.


----------



## Lvivske

jonathan c said:


> The fuse for the Rebel is in a sliding compartment next to the IEC plug on the back of the amplifier.



que?


----------



## jonathan c

The outside back of the amplifier…


----------



## Lvivske

ohhh the back

says "use only with 250V fuse", any idea what kind I'd need to replace it with? (or should i contact the company)


----------



## JollyGreen

Can someone please recommend a forum on hi-fi headphones? I'm considering upgrading my Sennheiser 6XX to something in the next tier up. 

god help me...


----------



## Lvivske

JollyGreen said:


> Can someone please recommend a forum on hi-fi headphones? I'm considering upgrading my Sennheiser 6XX to something in the next tier up.
> 
> god help me...



head-fi.org is pretty decent


----------



## jonathan c

Lvivske said:


> ohhh the back
> 
> says "use only with 250V fuse", any idea what kind I'd need to replace it with? (or should i contact the company)


The 5x20mm fuses are 250V. The larger 6.3x32mm are typically 500V. Take the fuse out. On one of the silvery ends will be something _like_ : “T 1A” or “F 0.5A” where T is timed (slow) and F is fast. Replace at whatever value is shown.


----------



## Lvivske

jonathan c said:


> The 5x20mm fuses are 250V. The larger 6.3x32mm are typically 500V. Take the fuse out. On one of the silvery ends will be something _like_ : “T 1A” or “F 0.5A” where T is timed (slow) and F is fast. Replace at whatever value is shown.


F1.6AL250V


----------



## Lvivske

any trick to opening the valhalla? im finding the screws on the bottom just spin in place (the 4 corners came out fine and the top was fine)


----------



## Lvivske

This is the Bifrost 2 but....does Schiit have in-house fuses now? That's their logo, right?


----------



## Ripper2860

I think that is the SCHURTER Electronics logo.


----------



## Lvivske (Oct 19, 2021)

so yeah, cant unscrew the bottom of the Valhalla, the PCB screws seem to just be spinning in place and the nut on the other end spins with it





not sure what to do (1 of the screws not coming out is just a chassis one), but good thing i checked first because it would suck if the fuse came in and I found out it can't be opened now...

guide i found online for the old U-chassis Bifrost 1.0 indicates its only PCB screws left and i should be good to go





I feel like I'm missing something and it should just pop out, like Homer holding on to the vending machine cans


----------



## jonathan c

Lvivske said:


> so yeah, cant unscrew the bottom of the Valhalla, the PCB screws seem to just be spinning in place and the nut on the other end spins with it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Did you take off the volume knob and undo the nut/washer behind the knob itself?


----------



## Lvivske

jonathan c said:


> Did you take off the volume knob and undo the nut/washer behind the knob itself?



yup


----------



## Lvivske

Can confirm, was holding on to the cans


----------



## Lvivske (Oct 19, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> The fuse for the Valhalla II is: ‘small’ (5x20mm), ‘1A’ (Ampere), ‘T’ (Timed a/k/a Slow).



Hey dude so I have it out now. This looks like an F for Fast (or an F on top of an L?), no T in sight.

F.1A250VP

(so 1A is the only option, not oddball .1A?)

It's also twice the size of the fuse in the Rebel. 31mm long, Rebel is like 19mm)


----------



## jonathan c

Lvivske said:


> Hey dude so I have it out now. This looks like an F for Fast (or an F on top of an L?), no T in sight.
> 
> F.1A250VP
> 
> ...


That left fuse is a 6.3x32mm (large) fuse. It *is *Fast and *is *1 Ampere. Schiit must have changed fuse parametres when going from V1 to V2: the fuse in *V2 *is definitely the 5x20mm (small) type and is Timed. [You mentioned that your Valhalla was 10+ years old].


----------



## G0rt

I am happy to attest that this sigil will make your chosen fuse sound better and last longer, maybe even better and longer enough. 😀


----------



## Ripper2860

Whoa.  Let's not get ahead of ourselves.  I say we withhold judgement until Amir at ASR measures and weighs-in on Audiophile Fuses.


----------



## Wes S (Oct 20, 2021)

Threw in the SR Purple fuse last night, and with just 12 hours of burn in, I am already a believer.  Worth every penny, and it's not even burned in yet.  The background went completely black, and I already am noticing an overall improvement with staging, detail and imaging.


----------



## Lvivske

Wes S said:


> Threw in the SR Purple fuse last night, and with just 12 hours of burn in, I am already a believer.  Worth every penny, and it's not even burned in yet.  The background went completely black, and I already am noticing an overall improvement with staging, detail and imaging.


which amp got purpled?


----------



## Lvivske

G0rt said:


> I am happy to attest that this sigil will make your chosen fuse sound better and last longer, maybe even better and longer enough. 😀



Everyone knows the devil makes all music sound better


----------



## Wes S

Lvivske said:


> which amp got purpled?


The RH-5, which is a highly transparent amp that really lets you hear changes to the system.


----------



## Lvivske (Oct 20, 2021)

as it is right now looks like I'll be going with the HiFi Supreme's for both my amps

local store also has the HiFi Silver Stars on clearance, so debating that vs supreme (both are silver, supreme just the newer product line), but for sure might get 1 for my Bifrost cuz **** it it's $20


----------



## jonathan c

G0rt said:


> I am happy to attest that this sigil will make your chosen fuse sound better and last longer, maybe even better and longer enough. 😀


It will also turn your GE tubes into GEC / Marconi / Osram tubes…👹…


----------



## jonathan c

Ripper2860 said:


> Whoa.  Let's not get ahead of ourselves.  I say we withhold judgement until Amir at ASR measures and weighs-in on Audiophile Fuses.


It isn’t enough for the obvious to be obvious - it has to be measured to the point of not being obvious 🤔🤪…

…ASR…(Asses Slicing Reality)


----------



## G0rt

jonathan c said:


> It will also turn your GE tubes into GEC / Marconi / Osram tubes…👹…


OH MY DOG 🤑🤭

Tomorrow, trying some smelly old RCA 3 mica, black plate 5814's. No experience with 12AU7's, so curious...


----------



## JollyGreen

G0rt said:


> I am happy to attest that this sigil will make your chosen fuse sound better and last longer, maybe even better and longer enough. 😀


You trying to summon static interference demons? That's how you summon static interference demons.


----------



## jonathan c

JollyGreen said:


> You trying to summon static interference demons? That's how you summon static interference demons.


Tubes with Devil getters are always better than tubes with angel Halo getters…👹👍…😇 👎…


----------



## G0rt

JollyGreen said:


> You trying to summon static interference demons? That's how you summon static interference demons.


Opened properly, Yog Sothoth is anything but static. Anything at all. 🤪🤪🤪


----------



## Lvivske (Oct 20, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> That left fuse is a 6.3x32mm (large) fuse. It *is *Fast and *is *1 Ampere. Schiit must have changed fuse parametres when going from V1 to V2: the fuse in *V2 *is definitely the 5x20mm (small) type and is Timed. [You mentioned that your Valhalla was 10+ years old].



hey dude about this, so (fingers crossed im worried about nothing since i already paid) but I was reading how slow blow fuses are coiled and fast more of a straight element.

Then I went down a rabbit hole till i found a post here of one

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/liquid-gold-2014.702014/page-48#post-13424389

"LF" engraving apparently means the brand, LittleFuse. The one in the thread says LF.T so it's a slow, but mine has no T or F, and actually looks like this product listing

https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/fuse-slow-blow-250v-3ag-025-x-125







soooo should i be frantically emailing/calling to change the order?


EDIT: Okay the other marking is 313

https://www.littelfuse.com/products/fuses/cartridge-fuses/3ab_3ag-6_3x32mm-fuses/313.aspx

crap.


----------



## jonathan c

Lvivske said:


> hey dude about this, so (fingers crossed im worried about nothing since i already paid) but I was reading how slow blow fuses are coiled and fast more of a straight element.
> 
> Then I went down a rabbit hole till i found a post here of one
> 
> ...


It is still 1A. Change order to ‘Timed’ from ‘Fast’. Being a ‘Timed’ in your V1 would be consistent with being a ‘Timed’ in V2.


----------



## Lvivske

jonathan c said:


> It is still 1A. Change order to ‘Timed’ from ‘Fast’. Being a ‘Timed’ in your V1 would be consistent with being a ‘Timed’ in V2.



1A, but in a tube amp would that not have high odds the fuse will blow?


----------



## jonathan c

Lvivske said:


> 1A, but in a tube amp would that not have high odds the fuse will blow?


Fuses act as protection against _surges_ in current. A ‘fast’ 1A fuse will blow the instant the current through it exceeds 1 ampere. A ‘slow / timed’ 1A fuse will blow when the current through it has exceeded an average of 1 ampere for a period of time.


----------



## Lvivske (Oct 20, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> Fuses act as protection against _surges_ in current. A ‘fast’ 1A fuse will blow the instant the current through it exceeds 1 ampere. A ‘slow / timed’ 1A fuse will blow when the current through it has exceeded an average of 1 ampere for a period of time.



right, would suck if a surge took out my new $100 fuse, or just powering on did it


----------



## jonathan c

Lvivske said:


> right, would suck if a surge took out my new $100 fuse, or just powering on did it


You might consider a surge protection / power conditioning component in your setup.


----------



## Lvivske

jonathan c said:


> You might consider a surge protection / power conditioning component in your setup.



...or just use the right fuse


----------



## G0rt (Oct 21, 2021)

Toasting pre-owned JRC marked RCA 5814A's today in VH2. Shiny black plates, triple mica, 50's vintage, long life, low noise and MilSpec 12AU7A. Fat D(emonic) getters.

I understand these are also computer rated, so like the 5965's may require little to no breakin. 350 mA filaments, so also usable in MJ2.

Using them today on high gain with HD650, and loving it. Clean, expansive and very, very quiet. Lower gain than 12AT7/12AV7 types is clearly no problem.

Much less microphonic than tall 5965's, too. Comparable to the Brimar CV455/CV4033 in that respect.

Impressed enough to order another identical NOS pair, just in case. Not very expensive, but very tasty.


----------



## JollyGreen

Hey guys, dumb question because I'm an idiot: 

I cannot use my Valhalla 2 as a power amp AND preamp, correct? If I was to purchase new desktop shelf speakers and sub, I couldn't use the valhalla as an amp for them right? Because the "out" of the valhalla is just line out right? Thats for POWERED speakers or to an amp. I believe in this scenario I would use the valhalla as a preamp (essentially vollume control and gain) but would still need a power amp to power the (unpowered) speakers. 

Can someone please validate? 

Thanks!


----------



## wenbinbin2010

JollyGreen said:


> Hey guys, dumb question because I'm an idiot:
> 
> I cannot use my Valhalla 2 as a power amp AND preamp, correct? If I was to purchase new desktop shelf speakers and sub, I couldn't use the valhalla as an amp for them right? Because the "out" of the valhalla is just line out right? Thats for POWERED speakers or to an amp. I believe in this scenario I would use the valhalla as a preamp (essentially vollume control and gain) but would still need a power amp to power the (unpowered) speakers.
> 
> ...



Correct, definitely not enough power to use as a power amp for passive speakers. Works great as a preamp though.


----------



## JollyGreen

wenbinbin2010 said:


> Correct, definitely not enough power to use as a power amp for passive speakers. Works great as a preamp though.


Great thanks! Klipsch is having a 50% off sale on shelf speakers and sub combos and I almost pulled the trigger on some until I realized that lol


----------



## Lvivske

Wes S said:


> Threw in the SR Purple fuse last night, and with just 12 hours of burn in, I am already a believer.  Worth every penny, and it's not even burned in yet.  The background went completely black, and I already am noticing an overall improvement with staging, detail and imaging.



is there any physics behind a burn in thesis for fuses or is this in the same category as cables?

and when you say 12 hours, is that of audio or just the unit being on so its performing its function


----------



## Wes S

Lvivske said:


> is there any physics behind a burn in thesis for fuses or is this in the same category as cables?
> 
> and when you say 12 hours, is that of audio or just the unit being on so its performing its function


I would assume burn in for a fuse is the same as with cables.  I count my burn-in hours with audio playback.


----------



## MacMan31

Does anyone have experience with these tubes? https://www.thetubestore.com/6h23n-eb-6922 

I have the Brimar CV455 which a number if you have suggested. But I have yet to try them out. Right now I am using the GE 6CG7/6FQ7. I actually had to return the first pair for another set due to sound imbalance issues. The new set works fine and sound is very good. I also just order the tube risers (not made in China) from the Pulse Tube Store. I think I'm just looking at more tube options to try out.


----------



## jonathan c

MacMan31 said:


> Does anyone have experience with these tubes? https://www.thetubestore.com/6h23n-eb-6922
> 
> I have the Brimar CV455 which a number if you have suggested. But I have yet to try them out. Right now I am using the GE 6CG7/6FQ7. I actually had to return the first pair for another set due to sound imbalance issues. The new set works fine and sound is very good. I also just order the tube risers (not made in China) from the Pulse Tube Store. I think I'm just looking at more tube options to try out.


I have used those (but ordered from ‘tubes-store.com’ in Russia) in a capacitor modified Liquid Platinum. A great “all arounder” with extended range and good detail; not expensive, too!


----------



## MacMan31

jonathan c said:


> I have used those (but ordered from ‘tubes-store.com’ in Russia) in a capacitor modified Liquid Platinum. A great “all arounder” with extended range and good detail; not expensive, too!



Fair enough. Have I reached the pinnacle with the Brimar CV455? Others here seem to think those are the best option.


----------



## JollyGreen

Ok.....I'll bite again. Can someone please post a link to a (good) set of adapters that I can purchase to use other (compatible) tubes for? I'm not sure how many variations are out there, but I'm pretty sure there are only a couple that are compatible to be adapted via some sort of power issue, yes?


----------



## jazzaj

JollyGreen said:


> Ok.....I'll bite again. Can someone please post a link to a (good) set of adapters that I can purchase to use other (compatible) tubes for? I'm not sure how many variations are out there, but I'm pretty sure there are only a couple that are compatible to be adapted via some sort of power issue, yes?


I bought some on JEMOSA Official Store on Aliexpress : 12AX7 to ECC88, 5670 to ECC88, small 9 pins socket saver. All work good and seem good quality for value.


----------



## Ripper2860

I and many here will tell you that these are probably the best adapter available, although certainly not the cheapest...

https://pulsetubestore.com/products/12axx-to-ecc88-adapter-plug-play-novib-©-1960s-nos-british-mcmurdo-phenolic-socket-on-top-plus-vibration-reduction-base-9-pin-b9a-noval-not-made-in-china


----------



## regaet

Curious as to how the RFT ECC81 O-getter tubes from delax777mechanics sound? Wes?


----------



## Wes S

regaet said:


> Curious as to how the RFT ECC81 O-getter tubes from delax777mechanics sound? Wes?


https://www.ebay.com/itm/265288183468?hash=item3dc4686eac:g:GiIAAOSwdFxhKeJh

This one has the exact same plate structure, and is the next version after the foil getter.  The sound is just bit cooler and less refined overall, but still has that huge stage, and killer bass and is a great alternative to the Foil Getter.


----------



## FLTWS

Ripper2860 said:


> I and many here will tell you that these are probably the best adapter available, although certainly not the cheapest...
> 
> https://pulsetubestore.com/products/12axx-to-ecc88-adapter-plug-play-novib-©-1960s-nos-british-mcmurdo-phenolic-socket-on-top-plus-vibration-reduction-base-9-pin-b9a-noval-not-made-in-china


I agree, these work very well and feel solidly built.


----------



## Lvivske

jazzaj said:


> I bought some on JEMOSA Official Store on Aliexpress : 12AX7 to ECC88, 5670 to ECC88, small 9 pins socket saver. All work good and seem good quality for value.



to add to that, this is the converter I got "Audio Hifi Store", build quality is terrific


----------



## tjdub

How long have you guy's noticed it takes for the brimar 4033 tubes to fully burn in on the valhalla? 

I got the amp today and I am pretty impressed on how clean and detailed it sounds so far


----------



## G0rt

tjdub said:


> How long have you guy's noticed it takes for the brimar 4033 tubes to fully burn in on the valhalla?
> 
> I got the amp today and I am pretty impressed on how clean and detailed it sounds so far


The several sets I've had here showed the greatest change over the first 15-20 hours, less up to 75-100 hours, and to me barely discernable after that up to about 150 hours.

I use them in both VH2 & MJ2, with similar results.


----------



## tjdub

G0rt said:


> The several sets I've had here showed the greatest change over the first 15-20 hours, less up to 75-100 hours, and to me barely discernable after that up to about 150 hours.
> 
> I use them in both VH2 & MJ2, with similar results.


Thanks, I read back through the thread and took everyone's advice and spend more then the amp is worth in tubes, socket savers and adapters lol. This hobby is just plain crazy sometimes


----------



## G0rt

tjdub said:


> Thanks, I read back through the thread and took everyone's advice and spend more then the amp is worth in tubes, socket savers and adapters lol. This hobby is just plain crazy sometimes


But you knew that going in, right? 😁

And it's some of the best fun that can be had with your clothes on...


----------



## G0rt

Um, just pointing out that hanging around tubes is probably best done with your clothes ON. Just sayin'. 🤭


----------



## Lvivske (Oct 28, 2021)

tjdub said:


> How long have you guy's noticed it takes for the brimar 4033 tubes to fully burn in on the valhalla?
> 
> I got the amp today and I am pretty impressed on how clean and detailed it sounds so far



for me i think it was around ~50 hours (2 days of running it). Day 3 I stopped keeping track and felt satisfied where it was.


----------



## jazzaj

Lvivske said:


> (2 days of running it)


Does it make sense to just let the Vallaha ON, without listening music ? As it goes hot rapidly is it safe ?


----------



## Lvivske

jazzaj said:


> Does it make sense to just let the Vallaha ON, without listening music ? As it goes hot rapidly is it safe ?



I did while working it in but under normal use I don't leave it on endlessly anymore since it's just burning hours of the tubes when I'm not listening constantly, I leave all my other gear on though

I dont think heat is an issue from a safety perspective


----------



## G0rt

jazzaj said:


> Does it make sense to just let the Vallaha ON, without listening music ? As it goes hot rapidly is it safe ?


My DACs have all been on for years, but my amps are only on when I'm listening. No need to burn tubes when they're not being enjoyed, IMO.


----------



## Lvivske (Oct 28, 2021)

I think Schiit put their power switches on the back of all their gear to discourage power toggling (like how PS Audio says they removed the power switch altogether, he also says that the initial surge turning on gear puts more wear on it than just idling - which is like a car now that i mention it, use up more gas on ignition than idling in the parkling lot right?)

But Paul here does say its better to turn tube amps off just because of their lifespan


----------



## Lvivske (Oct 29, 2021)

I may be the first person to start cap rolling 










question is, what brand? 470uF 250V, the ones Schiit use are Rubycon, found some Nichicons so far

Only the 4 closest to the PSU seem to be bloating, the 1 in green popped the plastic cover right off


----------



## jonathan c

Lvivske said:


> I may be the first person to start cap rolling
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you replace the ‘stock’ caps _just once_ with others, that is not rolling…😜


----------



## Lvivske

jonathan c said:


> If you replace the ‘stock’ caps _just once_ with others, that is not rolling…😜



How many times have you told yourself, "just once" 😅


----------



## MacMan31

https://www.thetubestore.com/mullard-12au7-reissue 

Will these work in the Valhalla II? The person who left a review on the page said they used them in a Schiit Freya+. Does the VH2 use the same tube sockets as the Freya+? Does Schiit use the same tube sockets for all their tubes amps and pre-amps?


----------



## Ripper2860

Yes to VH2.  If they used them in a Freya+ they had to use adapters since Freya+ uses 6SN7 family of octal tubes and not novals.


----------



## MacMan31

Ripper2860 said:


> Yes to VH2.  If they used them in a Freya+ they had to use adapters since Freya+ uses 6SN7 family of octal tubes and not novals.



Oh okay. So would any 12AU7 tube fit the Valhalla II? That tube type is not listed in the manual.


----------



## Lvivske

Valhalla accepts E88CC

12AU7 is ECC82

Would need the adapter, no? (I literally have a 12AU7 to E88CC adapter for my ECC81's)


----------



## MacMan31

Lvivske said:


> Valhalla accepts E88CC
> 
> 12AU7 is ECC82
> 
> Would need the adapter, no? (I literally have a 12AU7 to E88CC adapter for my ECC81's)



I have a pair of adapters which say "12Axx to ECC88". Is that the same thing? I got them from the Pulse Tube Store.


----------



## Ripper2860

Thanks. @Lvivske  I did fail to mention that the 12A*7s also need an adapter to operate in VH2.


----------



## Lvivske

MacMan31 said:


> I have a pair of adapters which say "12Axx to ECC88". Is that the same thing? I got them from the Pulse Tube Store.



yep same thing, universal input for all the 12A's

sounds like you're good to go


----------



## MacMan31

Lvivske said:


> yep same thing, universal input for all the 12A's
> 
> sounds like you're good to go



Oh so all the 12Axx have the same pins?


----------



## Lvivske

MacMan31 said:


> Oh so all the 12Axx have the same pins?



I assume so? Just knot our adapters are good for AU, AT, and AX


----------



## MacMan31

Lvivske said:


> I assume so? Just knot our adapters are good for AU, AT, and AX



Okay cool. Thanks. It's good to have some options. Although perhaps not so good for my wallet.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Oct 30, 2021)

Yes, 12A*7 all share the same pinouts.  They do have different gain levels.  12AU and AT will be fine with VH2 but AX gain is far too high and will likely drive the amp to clipping and / or noise.


----------



## MacMan31

Ripper2860 said:


> Yes, 12A*7 all share the same pinouts.  They do have different gain levels.  12AU and AT will be fine with VH2 but AX gain is far too high and will likely drive the amp to clipping and / or noise.



Okay. That's good to know. Any particular ones you would recommend?


----------



## Ripper2860

Brimar CV455 and CV4033 are very good  tubes and well worth consideration if budget permits.


----------



## Lvivske

Join usssss


----------



## MacMan31

Ripper2860 said:


> Brimar CV455 and CV4033 are very good  tubes and well worth consideration if budget permits.



I thought those two numbers were just different numbers for the same tubes.  I have the CV455. I can find the CV4033 on the Pulse Tube Store but numerous options come up. Which is the right one? Would that black base on the CV4033 still allow it to fit in the VH2?


----------



## G0rt

MacMan31 said:


> I thought those two numbers were just different numbers for the same tubes.  I have the CV455. I can find the CV4033 on the Pulse Tube Store but numerous options come up. Which is the right one? Would that black base on the CV4033 still allow it to fit in the VH2?


I think there's some consensus that 'the older, the better.' The older ones have square getter flags, later are halos.

I've used some '61 Rochester made CV4033's for a couple years, and like them a lot. They were originally wire leads, but had pin bases added, which pose no problem. I've got 4 sets, just in case. 😁

I was able to get a '57 pair made at the Footscray factory, and they're rather subtly different, and quite nice. I missed out on some '56's that popped up.

The CV455's are '56 Footscrays, and came with pin bases. I think many of us actually find them the best of the bunch. It's amazing that they're still available.


----------



## MacMan31

G0rt said:


> I think there's some consensus that 'the older, the better.' The older ones have square getter flags, later are halos.
> 
> I've used some '61 Rochester made CV4033's for a couple years, and like them a lot. They were originally wire leads, but had pin bases added, which pose no problem. I've got 4 sets, just in case. 😁
> 
> ...



I'm not sure where my CV455 were made. But how do I know which has getter flags or halos? I'm not too familiar with tube terminology.


----------



## G0rt

MacMan31 said:


> I'm not sure where my CV455 were made. But how do I know which has getter flags or halos? I'm not too familiar with tube terminology.


There's a code on the side that indicates the place of manufacture.

The only CV455's I've heard of are from the old Footscray factory, and are marked KB/FB.

'Flag' is the general, technically correct term, but the structure is commonly called a getter frame or just getter. It's had many different shapes, and has been used as a crude dating mechanism.

The getter structure held a metal alloy that was inductively heated or 'flashed' to deposite itself on the inside of the glass bottle, and which then serves to chemically combine and thus purge various gasses remaining or produced in the tube. It has no other purpose or connection.

The CV455's from Langrex are Footscray's, from 1956, and have square shaped getters. It was a very good year. 😁


----------



## jonathan c

G0rt said:


> I think there's some consensus that 'the older, the better.'


…😜 true with Head-Fiers also 😜…


----------



## MacMan31

G0rt said:


> There's a code on the side that indicates the place of manufacture.
> 
> The only CV455's I've heard of are from the old Footscray factory, and are marked KB/FB.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the explanation. I think a diagram would have helped.  I know that tubes alter the sound when the signal is passed through them. But when am looking at a tube what is the name of each piece of the tube and what is the function of each piece? Perhaps I can find a video on YT that will help.


----------



## G0rt

MacMan31 said:


> Thanks for the explanation. I think a diagram would have helped.  I know that tubes alter the sound when the signal is passed through them. But when am looking at a tube what is the name of each piece of the tube and what is the function of each piece? Perhaps I can find a video on YT that will help.


There's actually lots online, in very scary levels of detail, describing not only the physics of electron tubes, but the complex chemistry, particularly metallurgy, of their design and manufacture.

There are 2 editions of the RCA Electron Tube Design book available, the later one being most interesting. Lots of chemistry, if you're into that. There are many articles online about getters and gettering.

Any old Radio Handbook or ARRL handbook covers the basics of triodes and such quite well. There are many old books on amp design, too, and you can divecas deep as you like.


----------



## MacMan31

I was just watching this video.   Some good explanation here. Plus he mentions the major brands of tubes and where they are from. One point he makes is not to handle the tubes with bare hands. Use something like a glove or facial tissue. 

Just watching this one now.   I do wish the Valhalla had big tubes. There is some really cool looking ones.


----------



## jonathan c (Oct 31, 2021)

MacMan31 said:


> I do wish the Valhalla had big tubes. There is some really cool looking ones.


If you use socket savers in socket savers in adapters…you can use ‘big tubes’: provided that the ‘adapted’ tubes will work in a circuit designed for 6N6Ps and 6922s etc…this may not be the most ‘efficient’ setup but it should meet visual requirements…


----------



## MacMan31

jonathan c said:


> If you use socket savers in socket savers in adapters…you can use ‘big tubes’: provided that the ‘adapted’ tubes will work in a circuit designed for 6922s etc…this may not be the most ‘efficient’ setup but it should meet visual requirements…



Wouldn't that complicate things having one adapter on top of another? How would I know if an adapted tube would work? I'm certainly no amplifier engineer but it would have been nice if the tube sockets were level with the top of the amp. In the case of the Valhalla II some tubes are very short so they barely stick up above the top of the amp.


----------



## jonathan c

MacMan31 said:


> Wouldn't that complicate things having one adapter on top of another? How would I know if an adapted tube would work? I'm certainly no amplifier engineer but it would have been nice if the tube sockets were level with the top of the amp. In the case of the Valhalla II some tubes are very short so they barely stick up above the top of the amp.


That’s why I said the arrangement might not be ‘efficient’…


----------



## MacMan31

jonathan c said:


> That’s why I said the arrangement might not be ‘efficient’…



Touché. I was considering other tube amps before I got the VH2. I was looking at a Darkvoice or Feliks Audio Echo or Elise MKII. That last one comes with some nice big tubes.


----------



## jonathan c

MacMan31 said:


> Touché. I was considering other tube amps before I got the VH2. I was looking at a Darkvoice or Feliks Audio Echo or Elise MKII. That last one comes with some nice big tubes.


Is this Head-Fi or something else where “size matters”…🤭…?


----------



## MacMan31

jonathan c said:


> Is this Head-Fi or something else where “size matters”…🤭…?



Hey some guys like big tubes.  LOL  The Feliks Audio amps seem really nice though.


----------



## jonathan c

MacMan31 said:


> Hey some guys like big tubes.  LOL  The Feliks Audio amps seem really nice though.


The obvious reply is : some guys have big ‘tubes’…😆😆😆😆…


----------



## MacMan31

jonathan c said:


> The obvious reply is : some guys have big ‘tubes’…😆😆😆😆…



Perhaps some guys use big tubes in their amps to compensate for their lack of a big tube.


----------



## jonathan c

…better to be output transformer-less than to be transformer output-less…🤪…


----------



## G0rt

Any of the common or uncommon 6SN7 types will work fine, with adaptors and stacked socket savers, so long as each filament needs 600 mA or less.

Here, CV1988's, last year. 🤗


----------



## MacMan31

G0rt said:


> Any of the common or uncommon 6SN7 types will work fine, with adaptors and stacked socket savers, so long as each filament needs 600 mA or less.
> 
> Here, CV1988's, last year. 🤗



Well that's a lot of Schiit.   So perhaps two socket savers and an adapter each side? I take it there is just the stock rear tubes behind those?


----------



## Lvivske

Since we cant really roll the back tubes may as well just use socket savers on em to embiggen 'em

the adapter adds height, at least, to the front bois


----------



## G0rt (Oct 31, 2021)

MacMan31 said:


> Well that's a lot of Schiit.   So perhaps two socket savers and an adapter each side? I take it there is just the stock rear tubes behind those?


Yup. Getting those higher makes for a cooler chassis. That's just my black Schiit. I've got silver Schiit, too. 😁


----------



## MacMan31

G0rt said:


> Yup. Getting those higher makes for a cooler chassis. That's just my black Schiit. I've got silver Schiit, too. 😁



What kind of silver Schiit do you have? Where did you get those particular tubes and which adapters would i need?


----------



## G0rt

MacMan31 said:


> What kind of silver Schiit do you have? Where did you get those particular tubes and which adapters would i need?


Gungnir Multibit OG driving Mjolnir 2, Lyr 3 & Asgard 3. 

My 2ch is driven by a Modi Multibit, through a Loki+ and SYS, and I've got a Modi 3, Magni 3 and Vali 2 around here somewhere.

Since I took that pic, I've added an OG black Saga, but that's not cabled up right now.

IIRC, I got both of those Brimar black bottles in separate deals on eBay before the price went nuts. 

I have another pair of clear bottles as well, from one of the other Brimar factories, Oldway I think.

Any one of them now usually costs more than Valhalla 2, when they show up at all.

The adaptors are 6SN7->6922 type, from various sources. I use TubeMonger adaptors when I can get them, but I've had good luck with some I've got on eBay, too.


----------



## G0rt

Oops, my bad. The Brimar black bottles are STC Oldway, and the clears are Footscray.


----------



## MacMan31

Got my tube risers from the Pulse Tube Store. Now my tubes are almost completely above the top of the amp. Listening to the Avengers: Endgame score on my ZMF Aeolus. Sound is excellent.


----------



## Clairezy

When I had it, I enjoyed rolling Gold Lion 6922's as well as GE 6cg7's


----------



## JollyGreen

Hello all, 

Back again, and looking to add some desktop speakers to my setup. Something like some Klipsch RP-500 or the like, and I was wondering if can use the Valhalla as a Preamp, and just get a power amp for the speakers/sub? I know that I CAN do this, but would it make more sense for me to get a separate integrated amp for the speakers, and really just use the VH as a headphone amp. I think its a headphone amp FIRST, and has the ABILITY to be a preamp, but im not sure if that is ideal. 

Is anyone using a power amp with their valhalla to push their shelf/desktop speakers?


----------



## Lvivske (Nov 13, 2021)

turned on my valhalla today for the first time in a week and got a lot of wild crackling in the right channel. Unplugged the source and it still kept going, just crackling at random intervals regardless of volume. Same outlet as before, nothing changed.

How should I troubleshoot this? The Rebel is on the same outlet just in a power bar, and it's crystal clear.

edit: unplugged it for like 5 minutes and fired it up again and there's no issues yet, but still curious What was possibly failing or fritzing out


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Clairezy said:


> When I had it, I enjoyed rolling Gold Lion 6922's as well as GE 6cg7's


I was about to pick up a pair of matched GE 6CG7 tubed for my Valhalla2. Tom E. at Schiit Audio advised against it… “_[you] can roll the 6N1P's to 6DJ8, 6BZ7, 6922, ECC88 tubes. I can't recommend using 6CG7 tubes with the Valhalla, only tubes that are specifically stated to work”_ (November 18, 2021, 15:01 PST).

*Question to the thread*: is there an appreciable difference between 6922 and ECC88 tubes?


----------



## jonathan c

ScubaMan2017 said:


> I was about to pick up a pair of matched GE 6CG7 tubed for my Valhalla2. Tom E. at Schiit Audio advised against it… “_[you] can roll the 6N1P's to 6DJ8, 6BZ7, 6922, ECC88 tubes. I can't recommend using 6CG7 tubes with the Valhalla, only tubes that are specifically stated to work”_ (November 18, 2021, 15:01 PST).
> 
> *Question to the thread*: is there an appreciable difference between 6922 and ECC88 tubes?


No.


----------



## bcowen (Nov 20, 2021)

ScubaMan2017 said:


> I was about to pick up a pair of matched GE 6CG7 tubed for my Valhalla2. Tom E. at Schiit Audio advised against it… “_[you] can roll the 6N1P's to 6DJ8, 6BZ7, 6922, ECC88 tubes. I can't recommend using 6CG7 tubes with the Valhalla, only tubes that are specifically stated to work”_ (November 18, 2021, 15:01 PST).
> 
> *Question to the thread*: is there an appreciable difference between 6922 and ECC88 tubes?


Technically, the European designation for a 6922 is an E88CC, while an ECC88 is a 6DJ8.  On a practical basis, there's little difference between the two, and you'll find more sonic difference between manufacturers and era of manufacturing than you will between the two designations (IME).

** Note that the 6CG7 draws twice the heater current of a 6922 (or 6DJ8) which may be more than the Valhalla can safely handle (and perhaps why Schitt recommended against it).


----------



## ScubaMan2017 (Nov 20, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> No.


Well schiit. That’s a definitive answer . Other opinions? Or, would users recommend another option (I’d like to avoid using a pin adapterk like the one I messed around with on my Vali2).
@bcowen … @jonathan c …. Appreciated your responses, eh.


----------



## jonathan c (Nov 20, 2021)

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Well schiit. That’s a definitive answer . Other opinions? Or, would users recommend another option (I’d like to avoid using a pin adapterk like the one I messed around with on my Vali2).


I was keying off “appreciable” 😜. Anyway, some very good/excellent tubes in the 6922 etc category are: Amperex 7308 PQ, Brimar CV2492, Sylvania 6922 (green print), Tungsram E88CC…just to start the list…If you haven’t yet, you can look into the Foton 6N6P for the power (back) tubes for Valhalla 2. (I use Foton + Tungsram / no adapters in my Valhalla 2:  🎼👍.)


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> I was keying off “appreciable” 😜.


I can appreciate that.


----------



## Lvivske

ScubaMan2017 said:


> I was about to pick up a pair of matched GE 6CG7 tubed for my Valhalla2. Tom E. at Schiit Audio advised against it… “_[you] can roll the 6N1P's to 6DJ8, 6BZ7, 6922, ECC88 tubes. I can't recommend using 6CG7 tubes with the Valhalla, only tubes that are specifically stated to work”_ (November 18, 2021, 15:01 PST).
> 
> *Question to the thread*: is there an appreciable difference between 6922 and ECC88 tubes?


He also told me not to change the tubes in my Valhalla 1 and look how that turned out.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Nov 20, 2021)

"I cannot recommend it" and "advised against" it ain't necessarily the same thing, but based on @bcowen's information, I'd advise against it.


----------



## jonathan c

Ripper2860 said:


> "I cannot recommend it" and "advised against" it ain't necessarily the same thing, but based on @bcowen's information, I'd advise against it.


What about advising against recommending it?😜🤪😜🤪…


----------



## Lvivske

Ripper2860 said:


> "I cannot recommend it" and "advised against" it ain't necessarily the same thing, but based on @bcowen's information, I'd advise against it.



I asked if it was *possible* and he told me it was _not recommended_ to attempt

so apples to apples


----------



## jonathan c

Lvivske said:


> I asked if it was *possible* and he told me it was _not recommended_ to attempt
> 
> so apples to apples


….anything is possible (can be tried), you just may hate the outcome 💥🔥🤬😖…


----------



## Lvivske

jonathan c said:


> ….anything is possible (can be tried), you just may hate the outcome 💥🔥🤬😖…



but we love the outcomes


----------



## MacMan31

Would an EQ device like a Schiit Lokius be just a different way of "tube rolling"? Isn't the latter kind of like EQ-ing the music? Would it make sense to have the Lokius paired with the Valhalla II?


----------



## Lvivske

MacMan31 said:


> Would an EQ device like a Schiit Lokius be just a different way of "tube rolling"? Isn't the latter kind of like EQ-ing the music?



no, different tonal properties imo. Can't turn a knob to add richness or impact (though some tone controls do, just not the EQ bands on the lokius)



> Would it make sense to have the Lokius paired with the Valhalla II?



I love the pairing


----------



## MacMan31

Lvivske said:


> no, different tonal properties imo. Can't turn a knob to add richness or impact (though some tone controls do, just not the EQ bands on the lokius)
> 
> 
> 
> I love the pairing



Okay interesting. Perhaps I'm not thinking of it correctly. Just seems like an EQ device would defeat the purpose of tubes. I know many enjoy the Lokius with the Jot 2 so I have considered that also.


----------



## bagwell359

MacMan31 said:


> Okay interesting. Perhaps I'm not thinking of it correctly. Just seems like an EQ device would defeat the purpose of tubes. I know many enjoy the Lokius with the Jot 2 so I have considered that also.


EQ is a FR device unless you get some really big swings between adjacent settings which can get into phase issues.

Tubes have an obvious FR component, but they have different distortions and in diff quantities.  Many do have phase differences.  Age also changes tube sound.


----------



## wenbinbin2010

MacMan31 said:


> Would an EQ device like a Schiit Lokius be just a different way of "tube rolling"? Isn't the latter kind of like EQ-ing the music? Would it make sense to have the Lokius paired with the Valhalla II?



There are tubes that will vastly improve the dynamics, soundstage, layering, detail retrieval, etc. compared to the stock or cheap tubes. Still rocking the Footscray CV4033s and loving them!


----------



## Guidostrunk

wenbinbin2010 said:


> There are tubes that will vastly improve the dynamics, soundstage, layering, detail retrieval, etc. compared to the stock or cheap tubes. Still rocking the Footscray CV4033s and loving them!


One of the best ecc81 on the planet!


----------



## tjdub

wenbinbin2010 said:


> There are tubes that will vastly improve the dynamics, soundstage, layering, detail retrieval, etc. compared to the stock or cheap tubes. Still rocking the Footscray CV4033s and loving them!


I'm rocking the same tubes and I am pretty impressed so far, if I were to nitpick I wish they had a wider soundstage


----------



## MacMan31

These one I presume. https://pulsetubestore.com/products...4-12at7-factory-tested-plug-play-ready-to-use 

Perhaps I'll have to bite the bullet and get a pair. Don't they need adapters? I just have the ones for my CV455.


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> One of the best ecc81 on the planet! in the constellation Alpha Centauri!


FTFY…[Reg. TM; © bcowen: 2021]


----------



## jonathan c

MacMan31 said:


> These one I presume. https://pulsetubestore.com/products...4-12at7-factory-tested-plug-play-ready-to-use
> 
> Perhaps I'll have to bite the bullet and get a pair. Don't they need adapters? I just have the ones for my CV455.


You are fine…the CV455 is a 12AT7…


----------



## Guidostrunk

tjdub said:


> I'm rocking the same tubes and I am pretty impressed so far, if I were to nitpick I wish they had a wider soundstage


You need rft ecc81 foil getters bro! 😁


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> FTFY…[Reg. TM; © bcowen: 2021]


😂


----------



## jonathan c

tjdub said:


> I'm rocking the same tubes and I am pretty impressed so far, if I were to nitpick I wish they had a wider soundstage


Which DAC, if any, do you use? With an excellent R2R non-over-sampling DAC, I have absolutely no complaints about soundstage with the CV4033.


----------



## jonathan c (Nov 25, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> You need rft ecc81 foil getters bro! 😁


(One of) the greatest finds: clear, dynamic, engaging, exciting, natural…INEXPENSIVE!
Thank you, Wes S! One had to act early and quickly. The RFT ECC81 ‘halo getters’ are immediately behind in quality. Still available.


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> Which DAC, if any, do you use? With an excellent *$8000 *DAC, I have absolutely no complaints about soundstage with the CV4033.


FTFY


----------



## tjdub

jonathan c said:


> Which DAC, if any, do you use? With an excellent R2R non-over-sampling DAC, I have absolutely no complaints about soundstage with the CV4033.


I use a yggdrasil LiM and a qutest


----------



## Lvivske

Guidostrunk said:


> You need rft ecc81 foil getters bro! 😁


RFT? Am I missing something, i dont remember this name coming up as the current godmode for the val


----------



## ScubaMan2017

jonathan c said:


> I was keying off “appreciable” 😜. Anyway, some very good/excellent tubes in the 6922 etc category are: Amperex 7308 PQ, Brimar CV2492, *Sylvania 6922 (green print), *Tungsram E88CC…just to start the list…If you haven’t yet, you can look into the Foton 6N6P for the power (back) tubes for Valhalla 2. (I use Foton + Tungsram / no adapters in my Valhalla 2: 🎼👍.)





 

 



 @jonathan c ... I looked at your post, mused, 'huh... meh... why not' and picked up a pair of matched greenies. They go for $80 CAD here in Southern Ontario. I'm unconvinced I can tell the difference between different brands of 6N6P valves (_so I'll stick with its stock units_). I'm looking forward to some deep listening this weekend.


----------



## watchnerd

Ripper2860 said:


> Folks, don't let the fact they are in India deter a purchase.  Pulse Tube Store is/was the direct supplier to Tubemonger.  The poor folks at Tubemonger had so many packages stolen by porch pirates it was causing extreme stock availability issues and they now just point folks directly to their supplier - Pulse Tube Store.



I have to wonder at the look of disappointment that a porch pirate gets when opening a package of stolen loot and is faced with the mysterious object of a socket saver.


----------



## watchnerd

G0rt said:


> Burn-in can be a contentious topic. Lots of variables.
> 
> I've got some old 5965's in my Valhalla 2 lately. They were meant for digital use, flip-flops, multivibrators and such.
> 
> ...



Very interesting.

Were all 5965's meant for digital use, or just some of them?


----------



## G0rt (Nov 27, 2021)

watchnerd said:


> Very interesting.
> 
> Were all 5965's meant for digital use, or just some of them?


So far as I can discover, the type was specifically developed for digital use.

I have Mullard and Brimar examples incoming, just to see. They're long plate, 2x mica.

5814a is also computer rated, a 12au7 variant. I observe a similar behavior WRT breakin. My examples are 60+ years old, NOS and act like new tubes. These work in MJ2 as well.


----------



## jonathan c

Here’s one for the Pulse Tube Store 12A** -> E88CC adapter users out there: Has anyone painted over the white body of the adapter(s)? If so, what brand/type of paint delivered good results? I am thinking of painting a set black and a set silver.


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> Here’s one for the Pulse Tube Store 12A** -> E88CC adapter users out there: Has anyone painted over the white body of the adapter(s)? If so, what brand/type of paint delivered good results? I am thinking of painting a set black and a set silver.


I always wanted to do that, and never liked the look of those white adapters.  Curious to hear what works, as I have a set sitting in a drawer somewhere just waiting to be painted black.


----------



## bcowen (Nov 28, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> Here’s one for the Pulse Tube Store 12A** -> E88CC adapter users out there: Has anyone painted over the white body of the adapter(s)? If so, what brand/type of paint delivered good results? I am thinking of painting a set black and a set silver.


If it were me, I'd get some thin-wall heat shrink and apply it over theirs. As a bonus, you could remove it at a later point if desired leaving the original covering intact.

No silver here, but gray...which is close.   

https://www.heatshrink.com/heat_shrink_tubing/b2_spl.asp


----------



## MacMan31

ScubaMan2017 said:


> @jonathan c ... I looked at your post, mused, 'huh... meh... why not' and picked up a pair of matched greenies. They go for $80 CAD here in Southern Ontario. I'm unconvinced I can tell the difference between different brands of 6N6P valves (_so I'll stick with its stock units_). I'm looking forward to some deep listening this weekend.



Where did you get those tubes? This is the closest I could find. https://www.thetubestore.com/jan-sylvania-6dj8


----------



## bcowen

MacMan31 said:


> Where did you get those tubes? This is the closest I could find. https://www.thetubestore.com/jan-sylvania-6dj8


Quite a few available on Ebay.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=sylvania+6922&_sacat=0


----------



## jonathan c

jonathan c said:


> Here’s one for the Pulse Tube Store 12A** -> E88CC adapter users out there: Has anyone painted over the white body of the adapter(s)? If so, what brand/type of paint delivered good results? I am thinking of painting a set black and a set silver.


I took off the ‘Tubemonger’ label, cleaned the white body with methylated spirits then with isopropyl alcohol. Next was Testors ‘metallic silver’ via 3/8” brush, a few hours drying time (more than enough). On the Woo WA2, voila:



Tres bien, n’est-ce pas?


----------



## watchnerd

G0rt said:


> So far as I can discover, the type was specifically developed for digital use.
> 
> I have Mullard and Brimar examples incoming, just to see. They're long plate, 2x mica.
> 
> 5814a is also computer rated, a 12au7 variant. I observe a similar behavior WRT breakin. My examples are 60+ years old, NOS and act like new tubes. These work in MJ2 as well.



Do you need to use a 12Ax7 adapter to use them in place of a 6922, or are they direct drop in replacements?


----------



## G0rt

watchnerd said:


> Do you need to use a 12Ax7 adapter to use them in place of a 6922, or are they direct drop in replacements?


They require the adapters, like any of the 12A?7 series. Many find it worth the extra trouble.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

MacMan31 said:


> Where did you get those tubes? This is the closest I could find. https://www.thetubestore.com/jan-sylvania-6dj8


I have a local guy here in Toronto. He ships all over the place.  ACE DYNACO DAVE... father and son team... strongly recommended. They have one of the highest ratings on Canuck Audio Mart. _*Link here*_.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

jonathan c said:


> I took off the ‘Tubemonger’ label, cleaned the white body with methylated spirits then with isopropyl alcohol. Next was Testors ‘metallic silver’ via 3/8” brush, a few hours drying time (more than enough). On the Woo WA2, voila:
> Tres bien, n’est-ce pas?


I see those little bottles of paint and I'm being reminded of my heady daze of assembling models in elementary school. They never looked as awesome as the pictures. I just ended up breeeaaaaaathing deeeeeeeeeply. Yeah, huffing paint fumes as a kid. Bad times, eh.


----------



## MacMan31

ScubaMan2017 said:


> I have a local guy here in Toronto. He ships all over the place.  ACE DYNACO DAVE... father and son team... strongly recommended. They have one of the highest ratings on Canuck Audio Mart. _*Link here*_.



Thanks for the link. I have seen those ad posts before. They are very long and kind of frustrating to go through to find what I am looking for. If they had a website with everything posted in an organized manner it would be much easier.


----------



## G0rt

New/NOS valves in VH2 today, Mullard E180cc from Langrex, 5965 digital rated 12AV7 class, long plates.

Plentiful and inexpensive, and they sound really good right out of the box, rich and punchy, smooth trebles.


----------



## MacMan31

G0rt said:


> New/NOS valves in VH2 today, Mullard E180cc from Langrex, 5965 digital rated 12AV7 class, long plates.
> 
> Plentiful and inexpensive, and they sound really good right out of the box, rich and punchy, smooth trebles.



These ones here? https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/e180cc-5965-mullard-nos-valve-tube/  If buying a pair are they matched and balanced? I don't see that option on the page.


----------



## G0rt

MacMan31 said:


> These ones here? https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/e180cc-5965-mullard-nos-valve-tube/  If buying a pair are they matched and balanced? I don't see that option on the page.


Those are the ones I got. I've seen the same batch elsewhere.

When I order from Langrex, I ask for matched pairs in the comments section. I've been told they honor such requests.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

MacMan31 said:


> Thanks for the link. I have seen those ad posts before. They are very long and kind of frustrating to go through to find what I am looking for. If they had a website with everything posted in an organized manner it would be much easier.


Their CAM post can be confusing to viewers. I had luck directly emailing them... and then asking for specific models (or odd look-fors). I used this thread to narrow down my choices (for my Valhalla 2)... and then asked them whether they had it or not. No question, @MacMan31 ,Tube Depot is significantly more organised than this vendor. I like supporting a local  dude (_and the prices are commensurate to the US-vendor [TubeDepot]_). Meh, this was a luxury purchase (with sonic differences that I probably cannot detect). I just like glowing tubes!


----------



## MacMan31

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Their CAM post can be confusing to viewers. I had luck directly emailing them... and then asking for specific models (or odd look-fors). I used this thread to narrow down my choices (for my Valhalla 2)... and then asked them whether they had it or not. No question, @MacMan31 ,Tube Depot is significantly more organised than this vendor. I like supporting a local  dude (_and the prices are commensurate to the US-vendor [TubeDepot]_). Meh, this was a luxury purchase (with sonic differences that I probably cannot detect). I just like glowing tubes!



I have not used Tube Depot. I have used The Tube Store, Langrex and Pulse Tube Store. But yes I have used this site to get some suggestions. I am actually looking for some Amperex 7308 Orange Globe tubes. I had them when I had the Valhalla 2 the first time. I had sold it as it was silver and later bought it again in black.


----------



## MacMan31 (Dec 5, 2021)

What is the difference between these three Genelax Gold Lion tubes? If I recall I can use the 12AU7 or 12AT7 as well as the standard 6922 tubes. But I can't or should not use the 12AX7 tubes. So what would be the difference between these?

https://www.thetubestore.com/genalex-gold-lion-ecc81-b739  - 12AT7
https://www.thetubestore.com/genalex-gold-lion-ecc82-b749  - 12AU7
https://www.thetubestore.com/genalex-gold-lion-e88cc-6922  - 6922

Also can anyone recommend other tube options from the Langrex store? I do want to get those Mullard tubes mentioned in a previous post. But have you guys tried other options from there? I already have the Brimar CV455.


----------



## bcowen (Dec 5, 2021)

MacMan31 said:


> What is the difference between these three Genelax Gold Lion tubes? If I recall I can use the 12AU7 or 12AT7 as well as the standard 6922 tubes. But I can't or should not use the 12AX7 tubes. So what would be the difference between these?
> 
> https://www.thetubestore.com/genalex-gold-lion-ecc81-b739  - 12AT7
> https://www.thetubestore.com/genalex-gold-lion-ecc82-b749  - 12AU7
> ...


Those are all new production Russian tubes.  The 12AU7 has a gain of 20, the 12AT7 a gain of 60, and the 6922 a gain of 33.  The 12AX7 has a gain of 100.  So a 12AU7 will have a little less gain than the stock (6922) tube, and the 12AT7 will have more.  The 12AX7 has too much gain which will likely lead to distortion**.  The 12A*7 family was designed to operate at either 6.3 volts or 12.6 volts depending on how the heater circuit is wired which is why they will work (with an adapter) in the VH2 that applies 6.3 volts to the heaters.  So.....while there may be some difference sonically between the 3 tubes you listed, it won't be huge as they're all (likely) made in the same factory. Biggest difference will be gain.

** My Incubus amp that uses a 6SN7 natively (gain of 20) works very nicely with a 12AU7.  It does _not_ work with a 12AT7 though.  The additional gain overdrives the power tube and I can't turn it up beyond a rather low volume without obvious distortion.  I don't own a VH2, but from everything I've seen a 12AT7 will work just fine in it.  Different amp, different circuit.


----------



## jonathan c

~ The Valhalla II is back in my home study-office after a spell at ‘mountain house’…so…the excellent Tungsram E88CCs were replaced by RFT ‘foil getter’ ECC81s which were kept here. The Foton 6N6Ps stayed in Valhalla II.
~ All told (again), near-SOTA 🎼 for far-SOTA $ =====> 😁😁😁🤪. And _every _headphone that I own sounds great with Valhalla II (even though the ZMFs reach their zenith with Woo WA2). In action, Grado RS-1x:


----------



## MacMan31

jonathan c said:


> ~ The Valhalla II is back in my home study-office after a spell at ‘mountain house’…so…the excellent Tungsram E88CCs were replaced by RFT ‘foil getter’ ECC81s which were kept here. The Foton 6N6Ps stayed in Valhalla II.
> ~ All told (again), near-SOTA 🎼 for far-SOTA $ =====> 😁😁😁🤪. And _every _headphone that I own sounds great with Valhalla II (even though the ZMFs reach their zenith with Woo WA2). In action, Grado RS-1x:



https://www.thetubestore.com/tungsram-e88cc-6922  - These are the Tungsram you are referring to? Also a bit off topic but what are your thoughts on Grado headphones? I have never heard or own any of their headphones.


----------



## jonathan c

MacMan31 said:


> https://www.thetubestore.com/tungsram-e88cc-6922  - These are the Tungsram you are referring to? Also a bit off topic but what are your thoughts on Grado headphones? I have never heard or own any of their headphones.


Part One: Those are the Tungsram - I purchased mine from ‘Tubemonger.com’. Part Two: I own two Grado headphones - the RS-1x and the PS-2000e. I enjoy them immensely. They offer a sound ‘signature’ different from those of the other headphones that I own. Part Three: You should go through the ‘Grado Fan Club!’ thread in the ‘Headphones (full size)’ forum. Many others and I have posted there.


----------



## jonathan c

~ This is not tube rolling _per se…._on a whim…

~ Grado RS-1x (G-cushions) << Schiit Valhalla II (Foton / RFT) _as preamplifier << _Arctic Cables custom silver _interconnects_ << Flux Lab Acoustics FA-22 _as amplifier_.

~ I _like_ the Valhalla/Flux Lab ‘synthetic’ hybrid amplification system:  the respective advantages of vacuum tube & solid-state with no perceivable disadvantages….🤷🏻😄. Serious challenge to my Rogue RH-5…


----------



## MacMan31

So you are using the Valhalla 2 as a preamp? Where do you set the volume knob? I tried it as a preamp when comparing with the Asgard 3 and for both amps the pre-out volume is controlled by the amp. It's not a fixed volume pre-out.


----------



## jonathan c

MacMan31 said:


> So you are using the Valhalla 2 as a preamp? Where do you set the volume knob? I tried it as a preamp when comparing with the Asgard 3 and for both amps the pre-out volume is controlled by the amp. It's not a fixed volume pre-out.


Yes. I have the Valhalla II gain toggle in the rear set up (high) and the Valhalla II volume knob at ‘noon / midnight’. The Valhalla II connection to the Flux Lab FA-22 is by RCA interconnects - no provision in Valhalla II for XLR.


----------



## MacMan31

jonathan c said:


> Yes. I have the Valhalla II gain toggle in the rear set up (high) and the Valhalla II volume knob at ‘noon / midnight’. The Valhalla II connection to the Flux Lab FA-22 is by RCA interconnects - no provision in Valhalla II for XLR.



So does music sound overall better through the Flux than the Valhalla 2? I see and FA-10 on CAM. I assume it's just a lower model to the FA-22. https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649800828-flux-fa-10-class-a-16w/


----------



## jonathan c

MacMan31 said:


> So does music sound overall better through the Flux than the Valhalla 2? I see and FA-10 on CAM. I assume it's just a lower model to the FA-22. https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649800828-flux-fa-10-class-a-16w/


~ First, the sound is a blend of Valhalla dimensionality and Flux Lab transient ability: very complementary. The subtleties are more complex and are woven through with aplomb. Better?….a different sonic ‘flavour’ - still musically convincing, emotionally rewarding - from that offered by each of the h/p/a.
~ As for the Flux Lab Acoustics amp line, they are all Class A in operation. The FA-10 is _not _a lower model to the FA-22. The FA-10 is a ‘marquee’ product: putting out _16 watts into 32 ohms, _it is targeted for use with power-gobbling headphones such as Abyss TC phi 1266 and Hifiman Susvara - both TOTL. The FA-12, FA-22 are fully-balanced, balanced-SE lower power class A h/p/a.


----------



## jonathan c (Dec 10, 2021)

Sennheiser HD-600 (cnc backweight mod) << FAW Noir Hybrid HPC << Flux Lab Acoustics FA-22 (_as amp) _<< Schiit Valhalla II (Foton / RFT _as pre-amp)_:

‘Live’:  Full House,  J. Geils Band  (Atlantic, 1972).

🎼🎶  🎉 🎊 😄🤪…


----------



## Lvivske

Lvivske said:


> I may be the first person to start cap rolling
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Okay guys, it happened. Was recapping my Pioneer, stumbled on to a tech who cut me a great price to pick up some work on the side, I asked if he could do the Valhalla board and he said no problem. Ended up replacing the larger 470uf Rubycon stock caps with 470uf Nichicon KX's (part of their audio line) and the two 47uf Nichcon VR caps (which aren't designated for audio) near the tubes into 50uf Audio Notes (ironically, made by Rubycon). 

If anyone is wondering why not go for the Audio Note Kasei line at this point of insanity, it's because they wouldn't fit. And why Nichicon KX over other brands? For some reason the 250v (whch fits perfectly) was 1/3rd the price of other brands, or even their own 450v model. The stars aligned or something.

So after some early scares out the gate, things seem to be functioning fine right now. As long as I've had this Valhalla, I associated the 'hum' from when the tubes fire up with just the sound of tubes. It's a tube amp and is supposed to add distortion, that's the point. Not like I think about it when music plays.

Recapping has completely removed the ambient hum from it. I'm using the stock NOS tubes just to test things and even those junkers sound amazing. This was a spectacular upgrade right now off of that objective change alone - knock on wood, dont want it to burst into flames. Put the Brimar/Foton combo back in which re-introduced some noise issues, but its settled down and sounding great now. Interested to hear how it sounds after some burn in.

(oh, yeah, and I painted the inner chassis and got a new knob, it's a Super Valhalla now)


----------



## MacMan31

Lvivske said:


> Okay guys, it happened. Was recapping my Pioneer, stumbled on to a tech who cut me a great price to pick up some work on the side, I asked if he could do the Valhalla board and he said no problem. Ended up replacing the larger 470uf Rubycon stock caps with 470uf Nichicon KX's (part of their audio line) and the two 47uf Nichcon VR caps (which aren't designated for audio) near the tubes into 50uf Audio Notes (ironically, made by Rubycon).
> 
> If anyone is wondering why not go for the Audio Note Kasei line at this point of insanity, it's because they wouldn't fit. And why Nichicon KX over other brands? For some reason the 250v (whch fits perfectly) was 1/3rd the price of other brands, or even their own 450v model. The stars aligned or something.
> 
> ...



This looks pretty sweet. How much for this mod and how could I get it done?


----------



## Lvivske

MacMan31 said:


> This looks pretty sweet. How much for this mod and how could I get it done?


The capacitors were like $50 altogether but installation varies, I got lucky, normal shop would probably charge 150-200?

Bear in mind my unit is 12 years old so it could have been faulty and benefited more from the upgrade than a fresher V2 would (unless you guys have the hum going on too)


----------



## MacMan31

Lvivske said:


> The capacitors were like $50 altogether but installation varies, I got lucky, normal shop would probably charge 150-200?
> 
> Bear in mind my unit is 12 years old so it could have been faulty and benefited more from the upgrade than a fresher V2 would (unless you guys have the hum going on too)



I personally don't notice any hum. But I also didn't know the Valhalla has been around for 12 or more years.


----------



## jonathan c

Lvivske said:


> The capacitors were like $50 altogether but installation varies, I got lucky, normal shop would probably charge 150-200?
> 
> Bear in mind my unit is 12 years old so it could have been faulty and benefited more from the upgrade than a fresher V2 would (unless you guys have the hum going on too)


I wouldn’t say “faulty”. The capacitors may have been due for replacement. When refurbishing old/vintage electronics, as you well know, among the first items up for replacement are the capacitors - whose storage and drainage abilities deteriorate over a long time.


----------



## Lvivske

jonathan c said:


> I wouldn’t say “faulty”. The capacitors may have been due for replacement. When refurbishing old/vintage electronics, as you well know, among the first items up for replacement are the capacitors - whose storage and drainage abilities deteriorate over a long time.



yeah that's all true, i meant failing for one reason or another, but caps shouldn't be bulging and causing audio issues this early in their lifespan either (especially since it was mostly in storage until 2018)

usually the 'recommended' rule is 20 years but they can just as well run 40 without issue. The stock Rubycons are rated for 3000 hours @ 105*C for what it's worth.


----------



## Kingrex

Sorry to slamb your thread with a question not per the topic.  I am new to Headfi so very limited on where I can post.
 I have a Valhalla 2.  Its main function is an outboard preamp for my 15ips tape machine.  I found an old pair of AKG K702 and have been enjoying it as a headphone amp.  I was thinking of better headphones.   Maybe Focal Stellia.  But they are pretty low impedance.   Will the Valhalla 2 drive them, or do I have to look at Sennheiser HD 560 type cans. 
Thanks
Kingrex


----------



## jonathan c (Jan 17, 2022)

Kingrex said:


> Sorry to slamb your thread with a question not per the topic.  I am new to Headfi so very limited on where I can post.
> I have a Valhalla 2.  Its main function is an outboard preamp for my 15ips tape machine.  I found an old pair of AKG K702 and have been enjoying it as a headphone amp.  I was thinking of better headphones.   Maybe Focal Stellia.  But they are pretty low impedance.   Will the Valhalla 2 drive them, or do I have to look at Sennheiser HD 560 type cans.
> Thanks
> Kingrex


The output impedance of the Valhalla II is 3.5 ohms in ‘low-gain’ mode and 14.0 ohms in ‘high-gain’ mode. I have driven the Focal Clear with the Valhalla II to total musical satisfaction (Clear impedance is 55 ohms). At 35 ohms nominal impedance, the Stellia should not be an issue with the Valhalla II. With the Stellia being an ‘efficient’ (easy-to-drive) headphone, you will be able to keep the Valhalla II at the ‘low-gain’ setting.


----------



## gazzington

If you want to make the Valhalla sound more tubey, what tubes are recommended?


----------



## JollyGreen

Hey everyone, I'm back! I just picked up from Upscale Audio a pair of Cryo treated matched Matsushita 7DJ8 and they sound wonderful with the Vally 2, wondering if anyone else has experience with these tubes?


----------



## jclyle

Has anyone purchased socket savers from Tubesandmore.com? Any issues with noisy sockets savers? I’m looking for some in the US and they have 8 pin ( for Lyr3] and 9 pin available.

https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/socket-saver-9-pin-miniature-reducing-wear-and-tear


----------



## FLTWS

jclyle said:


> Has anyone purchased socket savers from Tubesandmore.com? Any issues with noisy sockets savers? I’m looking for some in the US and they have 8 pin ( for Lyr3] and 9 pin available.
> 
> https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/socket-saver-9-pin-miniature-reducing-wear-and-tear


No Issues here with those, in fact, I doubled them up (two per tube) with no ill effects on the driver tubes for Vahalla 2.


----------



## Smoothstereo

Hi all,

I posted this on another headfi thread but no response. So will post here as well.

Anyone able to compare the Brimar CV455 KB/FB from 1956 to the Brimar CV4024 KB/AD circa 1950s and to RCA Cleartop 12AU7 from circa early 1960s ? I have the latter two tubes, would like to know how the Brimar CV455 performs in comparison.

Thanks.


----------



## Kingrex

Inha e a  6H23N 8705 in.  Its pretty good.  Clean and neutral.  If I turn the volume wide open i get hum.  With headphones I am no where near close to that level.  

I have AKG 702

I have tried an variety of very nice E88CC i use in my tube amps and preamps.  They don't work well.  I don't think a 6922 E88CC has the current capability to operate well


----------



## Kingrex

The E88CC by Telefunken and Siemens that run about $300 each crush the 6H23N when used in my amps and preamps.  Much better tubes.  But the E88CC does not play well in the Valhalla 2.


----------



## jonathan c

My favourite 6922-type tubes in the Valhalla II are the Amperex PQ 7308 and the Tungsram E88CC. Otherwise, it is 12AT7+adapter time: RFT ECC81 or Brimar CV455 (KB/FB).


----------



## jonathan c

Kingrex said:


> The E88CC by Telefunken and Siemens that run about $300 each crush the 6H23N when used in my amps and preamps.  Much better tubes.  But the E88CC does not play well in the Valhalla 2.


Do you use Foton 6N6Ps as the power tubes?


----------



## Kingrex

I use the stock power tube


----------



## Kingrex

My Valhalla does double duty as an outboard preamp for my 15IPS tape.  I have the playback head direct wired to a custom IEC/NAB adapter, then to the Valhalla, then to my First Sound MK3SI, then to my Dartzeel NHB 108.  I have to be very conscious the tubes are linear and very quiet.  As a tape preamp I have the Valhalla running very close to wide open.  I actually had to kick it out of high gain to low, and push my First Sound to wide open to get the volume where I needed and not have noticeable hum from my speakers.


----------



## Kingrex

I have Amprex PQ 6922.  I think 1 is getting microphonic.   In the Valhalla it and my other 6922/ E88CC seem to get a little glassy.   Overly bright.  Something was not right to me.


----------



## Lvivske

jonathan c said:


> My favourite 6922-type tubes in the Valhalla II are the Amperex PQ 7308 and the Tungsram E88CC. Otherwise, it is 12AT7+adapter time: RFT ECC81 or Brimar CV455 (KB/FB).



How do the Tungsram compare to the CV455s?

Does year matter?


----------



## jonathan c

Lvivske said:


> How do the Tungsram compare to the CV455s?
> 
> Does year matter?


For the CV455, 1956 is the year


----------



## Lvivske

jonathan c said:


> For the CV455, 1956 is the year



I asked about the Tungsram


----------



## jonathan c (Jan 30, 2022)

To me, the Tungsram E88CC is slightly airier than the CV455 which extends slightly deeper in the bass. The Tungsrams that I have are of November 1973. [I also roll these into the Woo WA2 from time to time, rolling out the RFT ECC81s.]


----------



## Guidostrunk

Smoothstereo said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I posted this on another headfi thread but no response. So will post here as well.
> 
> ...


The cv455 is the best tube of the Brimar/STC saga of tubes. 

These are the ones you want. 1956 square getter , triple mica, from the Footscray plant(KB/FB). 
https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/12at7-cv455-kb-fb-brimar-rare-triple-mica-1956-nos-valve-tube/


----------



## Smoothstereo

Guidostrunk said:


> The cv455 is the best tube of the Brimar/STC saga of tubes.
> 
> These are the ones you want. 1956 square getter , triple mica, from the Footscray plant(KB/FB).
> https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/12at7-cv455-kb-fb-brimar-rare-triple-mica-1956-nos-valve-tube/


Thanks for the reply. Are you able to elaborate on this CV455 tube, what's it's strengths/characteristics etc? Trying to see if this is what I want in relation to the other two tubes mentioned in my post.

I am trying to find a tube that takes the best traits from the two tubes I have now. The warmth, weighty bass, thicker mids, wide stage, and naturalness of the Brimar CV4024 with the resolution, detail, depth of stage, clarity, snappy tight bass of the RCA Cleartop.


----------



## jonathan c

Smoothstereo said:


> Thanks for the reply. Are you able to elaborate on this CV455 tube, what's it's strengths/characteristics etc? Trying to see if this is what I want in relation to the other two tubes mentioned in my post.
> 
> I am trying to find a tube that takes the best traits from the two tubes I have now. The warmth, weighty bass, thicker mids, wide stage, and naturalness of the Brimar CV4024 with the resolution, detail, depth of stage, clarity, snappy tight bass of the RCA Cleartop.


There is a _ton of discussion _about the CV455 (and other Brimar KB/FB Footscray plant) tubes in the Schiit Mjolnir II threads…especially during mid-2021.


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> There is a _ton of discussion _about the CV455 (and other Brimar KB/FB Footscray plant) tubes in the Schiit Mjolnir II threads…especially during mid-2021.


And for anyone brave enough to venture in there, check your wallet at the door or it will be considerably lighter when you leave.  🤣🤣🤣


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> And for anyone brave enough to venture in there, check your wallet at the door or it will be considerably lighter when you leave.  🤣🤣🤣


‘…abandon hope all who enter here…’


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> ‘…abandon hope* early retirement* all who enter here…’


FTFY.


----------



## jonathan c

jonathan c said:


> There is a _ton of discussion _about the CV455 (and other Brimar KB/FB Footscray plant) tubes in the Schiit Mjolnir II threads…especially during mid-2021.


…for a fervent Head-Fier, KB/FB = kicks butt, f###ing broke…


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> …for a fervent Head-Fier, KB/FB = kicks butt, f###ing broke…


😅😆😁


----------



## tjdub

If anyone is interested in a Valhalla I posted mine in the classifieds, it comes with fotons and brimar CV4033 footscray tubes as well as socket savers and adapters from pulse tube store


----------



## Smoothstereo

Thanks guys for the advice. Trying to limit my tube intake by making thoughtful choices and reduce the excess tube stash 😁.


----------



## bcowen

Smoothstereo said:


> Thanks guys for the advice. Trying to limit my tube intake by making thoughtful choices and reduce the *excess tube stash* 😁.


Another urban legend.  There's really no such thing.  🤣🤣


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> Another urban legend.  There's really no such thing.  🤣🤣


…any GE tube is an excess…


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Feb 5, 2022)

Guys, I was ok with the Valhalla 2 out of my HD 600s. I started thinking meh when I tried running a pair of HD 800s off of it. @bcowen hit a home run last time with his recommendations for tubes for my Lyr 2. Do you guys have recommendations for reasonably priced tubes _available in Europe (which seems not to include England, lately)_ that could make the Valhalla 2 worth keeping? I told @bcowen over PM I'm thinking of either selling these two piles of Schiit or just boxing them up for a rainy day. Turns out I don't use them very much.


----------



## jonathan c (Feb 5, 2022)

For the Valhalla II, I have been very pleased with Tungsram E88CC, with RFT ECC81 + adapter (12A#7->E88CC). For the 6N6P power tubes, use Foton. PS, the output impedance for Valhalla II is 3.5 ohms at ‘low gain’ setting and 14.0 ohms for ‘high gain’ setting. These values are _low_ for an OTL headphone amplifier. The HD 600 / HD 800, with 300 ohm nominal input impedance, may be ‘throttled’ by an effectively high damping factor.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Thanks, I'll see what I can see. I would prefer not to use an adapter but I guess there is no good reason not to.


----------



## jonathan c

If you use the adapters for ECC81s and use ‘socket savers / tube risers’ for the 6N6Ps, the Valhalla II will operate quite a bit cooler.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

jonathan c said:


> For the Valhalla II, I have been very pleased with Tungsram E88CC, with RFT ECC81 + adapter (12A#7->E88CC). For the 6N6P power tubes, use Foton.



Wait I read this too quickly. So E88CC I know what they are. ECC81, I know what they are. I have no idea what RFT is or how I can use both E88CC and ECC81 at the same time. 



jonathan c said:


> PS, the output impedance for Valhalla II is 3.5 ohms at ‘low gain’ setting and 14.0 ohms for ‘high gain’ setting. These values are _low_ for an OTL headphone amplifier. The HD 600 / HD 800, with 300 ohm nominal input impedance, may be ‘throttled’ by an effectively high damping factor.


The problem was that with the HD 600s they sounded good pretty much everywhere. With the HD 800s the mids sounded sloppy. Would that be a symptom of what you're talking about? Can this be fixed by tubes? I'm starting to feel this one needs to go.


----------



## jonathan c

You can use _either _the E88CCs _or_ the ECC81s + adapters for the power (front) tubes. As for the HD600 / HD800, they do sound best _to me_ when driven by a typical OTL headphone amplifier which has an output impedance in the 100 ohm vicinity (not all makers disclose this…some inquiry is required).


----------



## gimmeheadroom

jonathan c said:


> You can use _either _the E88CCs _or_ the ECC81s + adapters for the power (front) tubes. As for the HD600 / HD800, they do sound best _to me_ when driven by a typical OTL headphone amplifier which has an output impedance in the 100 ohm vicinity (not all makers disclose this…some inquiry is required).


Yeah I had several unfavorable emails with the company and I won't be touching their products with a 1000 meter pole any time soon. I asked about the input impedance for other reasons and I got contempt and ridicule and no answer to the question.

Thanks for the into you posted- it is surprisingly bad for an OTL amp.

How happy are you with your WA2? I have wanted to get one for a while but there is no good source in Europe.


----------



## Lvivske

gimmeheadroom said:


> Guys, I was ok with the Valhalla 2 out of my HD 600s. I started thinking meh when I tried running a pair of HD 800s off of it. @bcowen hit a home run last time with his recommendations for tubes for my Lyr 2. Do you guys have recommendations for reasonably priced tubes _available in Europe (which seems not to include England, lately)_ that could make the Valhalla 2 worth keeping? I told @bcowen over PM I'm thinking of either selling these two piles of Schiit or just boxing them up for a rainy day. Turns out I don't use them very much.



I dont think tubes alone can save the V2/HD800 pairing. Granted, I have the older, brighter ones, but without EQ I hated the two and my V was boxed up for years as a result. Not the amp's fault, though.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Lvivske said:


> I dont think tubes alone can save the V2/HD800 pairing. Granted, I have the older, brighter ones, but without EQ I hated the two and my V was boxed up for years as a result. Not the amp's fault, though.


What I'm hearing has nothing to do with EQ but rather midrange slop. It's either the amp or the tubes or both.


----------



## Lvivske

Dont know how to quantify 'slop' but in that case I'm inclined to think a tube change would help, but this is deep in the weeds


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Lvivske said:


> Dont know how to quantify 'slop' but in that case I'm inclined to think a tube change would help, but this is deep in the weeds


I'll check the prices on the tubes @jonathan c mentioned. If they're affordable here it's worth a try, otherwise these two get boxed up or sold or both.


----------



## jonathan c

gimmeheadroom said:


> Yeah I had several unfavorable emails with the company and I won't be touching their products with a 1000 meter pole any time soon. I asked about the input impedance for other reasons and I got contempt and ridicule and no answer to the question.
> 
> Thanks for the into you posted- it is surprisingly bad for an OTL amp.
> 
> How happy are you with your WA2? I have wanted to get one for a while but there is no good source in Europe.


The impedance info on the Valhalla II _is _on the website. Even though the Valhalla II is an OTL,  with its low output impedance I use only the lower impedance h/p in the collection: Audeze LCD-X, Gjallarhorn JM Edition, Grados. As for the Woo WA2, 🎼😀.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Feb 5, 2022)

jonathan c said:


> The impedance info on the Valhalla II _is _on the website. Even though the Valhalla II is an OTL,  with its low output impedance I use only the lower impedance h/p in the collection: Audeze LCD-X, Gjallarhorn JM Edition, Grados. As for the Woo WA2, 🎼😀.


I did not see anything about input impedance. Did I miss it?

Update: Either I did miss it or they added it at some point. This is interesting in light of the email exchange I was afflicted by. The answer was "why do you want to know, don't you realize this is meaningless, you're asking something that nobody wants to know" etc. If it was on the site he should have just quoted it.


----------



## jonathan c

Lvivske said:


> Dont know how to quantify 'slop' but in that case I'm inclined to think a tube change would help, but this is *deep in the weeds.*


Like @bcowen ‘s tee shots on par 3s…🤣


----------



## jonathan c (Feb 5, 2022)

gimmeheadroom said:


> I did not see anything about input impedance. Did I miss it?
> 
> Update: Either I did miss it or they added it at some point. This is interesting in light of the email exchange I was afflicted by. The answer was "why do you want to know, don't you realize this is meaningless, you're asking something that nobody wants to know" etc. If it was on the site he should have just quoted it.


This has been on the website at least since before I ordered a  Valhalla II (OCT/2021). Two thirds down is the impedance (output & input) data. One of the reasons that I ordered was because of the low output impedance while being OTL.


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> Like @bcowen ‘s tee shots *with miniature golf*…🤣


FTFY.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> FTFY.


To avoid being deep in the weeds in miniature golf, we’ll let you play from the Kodiak bear tees…


----------



## Kingrex

Wouldn't the input impedance relate to how the V2 reacts to the DAC, Tape, Vinyl component plugged into it.  Its the output impedance that would be reacting to the headphones plugged into the V2 and if way out of balance result in less than desirable playback.  

Not to say you didn't have a bad experience.   But I hope this thread stays on track and people who enjoy it continue to post results.  

I was never much a headphone guy but getting the V2 has really made me wake up.  I hear details my main system can not recreate.   I'm sort of shocked how much better tape is than digital when it comes to classical and jazz.  Just slaughters it.  My vinyl is pretty good too.  My V2 gets a bit of a workout as I am constantly plugging rca in and out of the back depending on what its doing.  And its holding up well.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Feb 6, 2022)

Kingrex said:


> Wouldn't the input impedance relate to how the V2 reacts to the DAC, Tape, Vinyl component plugged into it.



Yes, and that also has some influence on the sound of course.



Kingrex said:


> Its the output impedance that would be reacting to the headphones plugged into the V2 and if way out of balance result in less than desirable playback.



Yes but this is two separate discussions. One of the manufacturers of one of the DACs I have asked about the Valhalla 2's input impedance and that's how that started. 

The output impedance discussion just started when @jonathan c mentioned it. That info is listed in my manual but of course it was too late by the time I opened the box.

I bought mine about 4 years ago and input impedance is not specified in the manual and also was not specified on the site for years.



Kingrex said:


> Not to say you didn't have a bad experience. But I hope this thread stays on track and people who enjoy it continue to post results.



Point taken. I apologize to the readership if some related yet admittedly tangential discussion derailed the thread. Unsubbed.


----------



## inzite

Question for the folks here - my Valhalla 2 directly from schiit came with 2 output tubes (the ones in the back) that are different height and appear to be differently labeled while still being the same type (6N6P) is this going to impact the sound? I'm using hd6xx through it and so far it hasn't impressed me when compared to plugging into the headphone plug of my Luxman L505UX integrated amp.  It appears to sound more compressed (in high gain) and perhaps not as 3d (in low gain) when plugging into the Valhalla 2.  I'm using the Rec Out from my 505ux into the Valhalla 2.


----------



## Lvivske

inzite said:


> Question for the folks here - my Valhalla 2 directly from schiit came with 2 output tubes (the ones in the back) that are different height and appear to be differently labeled while still being the same type (6N6P) is this going to impact the sound?



my take is, if for some reason they are a matched pair then it might be close enough to not impact sound as intended

this may be a more common issue than i realized, i also received two 6N6P tubes in mine (different factories/writing) but assumed it was a total fluke


----------



## inzite (Feb 10, 2022)

Lvivske said:


> my take is, if for some reason they are a matched pair then it might be close enough to not impact sound as intended
> 
> this may be a more common issue than i realized, i also received two 6N6P tubes in mine (different factories/writing) but assumed it was a total fluke


Thats good to know.  not sure if they match pair them at schiit but i did send them a follow up email about it but have not heard back yet.  They initially told me its fine.  Will continue to test out the h6xx and valhalla 2 combo against the built in headphone output from my luxman.

right now my flow for digital is node2i>pontus ii(via balanced)>505ux (via rec out)>valhalla 2(high gain)


----------



## Kingrex

There are 155 pages here which is too much to read.  Look through what you can and try changing the input tubes.  The shorter ones in the front.  They are readily available and make a difference.  
Luxman is good gear and may have more power.  It seems the V2 is not able to drive many headphones with ease.  That could be an issue too.


----------



## jonathan c

•  If you want great results from the Valhalla II, get Foton 6N6Ps for the power (rear) tubes and Tungsram E88CCs for the driver (front) tubes - all on socket savers. This last feature will let the Valhalla II run cooler.
•  I have had no power issues with the Valhalla II. While I do not own an Abyss AB-1266 or a Hifiman Susvara (both power hungry), I can and do drive the Audeze LCD-4 planar headphones with 200 ohm impedance without a problem.


----------



## Kingrex

jonathan c said:


> •  If you want great results from the Valhalla II, get Foton 6N6Ps for the power..



  You really like that Foton tube.  They are around $60 each for matched and tested for microphonics by a reputable site.   Where did you get yours.  

You should  try a good transport via Coax on the the Mystique.  I have the V3.  I use the USB from my Deja Vu.   I find files on my server are much better than streamed.  And Ben says it sounds broken compared to a coax via a transport.


----------



## jonathan c (Feb 11, 2022)

Kingrex said:


> You really like that Foton tube.  They are around $60 each for matched and tested for microphonics by a reputable site.   Where did you get yours.
> 
> You should  try a good transport via Coax on the the Mystique.  I have the V3.  I use the USB from my Deja Vu.   I find files on my server are much better than streamed.  And Ben says it sounds broken compared to a coax via a transport.


[see below]


----------



## jonathan c

Kingrex said:


> You really like that Foton tube.  They are around $60 each for matched and tested for microphonics by a reputable site.   Where did you get yours.
> 
> You should  try a good transport via Coax on the the Mystique.  I have the V3.  I use the USB from my Deja Vu.   I find files on my server are much better than streamed.  And Ben says it sounds broken compared to a coax via a transport.


Tubes-store.com (in Russia). I use the Audiolab CDT-6000 👍👍😄😄.


----------



## jonathan c (Feb 11, 2022)

[duplicate]


----------



## Lvivske

Foton's are like $10 each if not 15 for a pair


----------



## Ripper2860

Yeah, I wasn't gonna say anything but I got 4 for $22.00 from a Russian seller and he threw in an extra pair as a thank you.


----------



## Kingrex

Maybe I end up over paying for tubes at times.  My V2 does double duty as a tape preamp and I have already had to make adjustments to reduce distortion at the high output I drive it.  

Tubes are definitely batched at a factory.  And from that some get a label of PQ.  Some are driver grade and nothing better.  Others are gold grade and operate with tighter tolerances.  Then distributors get them and some batch them again.  The low quality get sold down the line.  

We all have our peeves when it comes to what we do and dont focus on.  One of mine is premium components applied to a power supply.  My website says why.  
I will look at the Tubes Store in Russia.   I usually prefer a US vendor.


----------



## Ripper2860

Don't get me wrong, there is certainly a value in buying from a trusted supplier and I too prefer a USA seller.  My supplier came highly recommended from a trusted source so my typical apprehension at buying via eBay and International was taken down a few notches.  I think they are worth $60 a pair and certainly a BARGAIN at less than $4 ea.  

Much improvement can be made over stock driver tubes, however (front).  The power tubes (rear) do make a difference, although it is not anywhere near as significant as the driver tubes.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Yeah, I wasn't gonna say anything but I got 4 for $22.00 from a Russian seller and he threw in an extra pair as a thank you.


From what I've read, the square getter Fotons are preferred by many versus the more usual UFO getter shape.  Not quite as cheap (but still not expensive comparatively).  Note this is only hearsay and therefore FWIW, as I don't have an amp (yet) that uses them to find out for myself. 






https://www.ebay.com/itm/203596313518?hash=item2f674933ae:g:lU4AAOSwVSthNzU5


----------



## Kingrex

I was looking at the square getters by Foton.  I think I can find some for about $20 each that appear matched.  Although few I saw say what the test results are.  They just say test strong. 
If I look at a usa company with a reputation andI get a much more expensive tube, then they give the emissions.


----------



## jonathan c

Kingrex said:


> Maybe I end up over paying for tubes at times.  My V2 does double duty as a tape preamp and I have already had to make adjustments to reduce distortion at the high output I drive it.
> 
> Tubes are definitely batched at a factory.  And from that some get a label of PQ.  Some are driver grade and nothing better.  Others are gold grade and operate with tighter tolerances.  Then distributors get them and some batch them again.  The low quality get sold down the line.
> 
> ...


The 6N6P, designed in the erstwhile Soviet Union, has no direct equivalent. The reliable supply is likely to come from Russia or possibly other Eastern European countries.


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> The 6N6P, designed in the erstwhile Soviet Union, has no direct equivalent. The reliable supply is likely to come from Russia or possibly other Eastern European countries.


And if anybody wants some from mother Russia, best order like right_ now. _If the Ukraine situation escalates beyond sabre rattling.....shudder at the thought.


----------



## Ripper2860

bcowen said:


> From what I've read, the square getter Fotons are preferred by many versus the more usual UFO getter shape.  Not quite as cheap (but still not expensive comparatively).  Note this is only hearsay and therefore FWIW, as I don't have an amp (yet) that uses them to find out for myself.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/203596313518?hash=item2f674933ae:g:lU4AAOSwVSthNzU5


Yeah.  I don't think I'd be buying anything from Ukraine right now.  Maybe in a few months.


----------



## Ripper2860

I'm thinking about starting an 'Arms for Tubes' campaign.  Who's with me??!!


----------



## jonathan c

Ripper2860 said:


> I'm thinking about starting an 'Arms for Tubes' campaign.  Who's with me??!!


What if the tubes are still being used in missile guidance systems? 🧐 Tubes for Arms…


----------



## Ripper2860

jonathan c said:


> What if the tubes are still being used in missile guidance systems? 🧐


Then the Ukrainians have nothing to worry about as BangyBang is the exclusive Tube seller to the Russian military.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Then the Ukrainians have nothing to worry about as BangyBang is the exclusive Tube seller to the Russian military.


Which means the Russian military is using relabeled Chinese tubes.  😲


----------



## jonathan c

Ripper2860 said:


> Then the Ukrainians have nothing to worry about as BangyBang is the exclusive Tube seller to the Russian military.


Not exactly…with Bangybang prices, Russia will have a massive trade deficit / current account deficit and feel an even greater need to invade the Ukraine to secure (abscond with) its resources…🧐


----------



## Ripper2860 (Feb 11, 2022)

As the sole supplier of carpet and rugs to BangyBang, Russia has negotiated preferential pricing.  Russia will also be using Paypal's 1 year interest free program to yield a further net deficit reduction.

(Also -- unknown to Russia, those Chinese tubes they are buying are actually rebadged GE's which puts them at an even greater military disadvantage.)

**Seriously.  The whole Russia / Ukraine thing is quite scary.  I am hoping cooler heads prevail and that this turns out to be merely a non-confrontational my **** is bigger than your **** exercise.


----------



## inzite

jonathan c said:


> •  If you want great results from the Valhalla II, get Foton 6N6Ps for the power (rear) tubes and Tungsram E88CCs for the driver (front) tubes - all on socket savers. This last feature will let the Valhalla II run cooler.
> •  I have had no power issues with the Valhalla II. While I do not own an Abyss AB-1266 or a Hifiman Susvara (both power hungry), I can and do drive the Audeze LCD-4 planar headphones with 200 ohm impedance without a problem.



ordered 2 foton and a matched pair of tungsram last night - fingers crossed.


----------



## MacMan31

jonathan c said:


> •  If you want great results from the Valhalla II, get Foton 6N6Ps for the power (rear) tubes and Tungsram E88CCs for the driver (front) tubes - all on socket savers. This last feature will let the Valhalla II run cooler.
> •  I have had no power issues with the Valhalla II. While I do not own an Abyss AB-1266 or a Hifiman Susvara (both power hungry), I can and do drive the Audeze LCD-4 planar headphones with 200 ohm impedance without a problem.



These Foton tubes? https://tubes-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=1116 

These Tungsram? https://www.tubemonger.com/Tungsram_MPs_1968_E88CC_Gray_Industrial_Serial_No_p/705.htm


----------



## Kingrex

MacMan31 said:


> These Foton tubes? https://tubes-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=1116
> 
> These Tungsram? https://www.tubemonger.com/Tungsram_MPs_1968_E88CC_Gray_Industrial_Serial_No_p/705.htm


You got the last of the Foton.  But they have some very nice Siemens 6922 for $150 each.  That is a good tube.  Close to the Telefunken I pay $250 each


----------



## Kingrex

OK, I bought the Foton.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Kingrex said:


> You got the last of the Foton.  But they have some very nice Siemens 6922 for $150 each.  That is a good tube.  Close to the Telefunken I pay $250 each


If you like German made tubes. Don't waste your money on any of the 6922/CCa/E188cc variants. 

Grab a pair of these:
https://pulsetubestore.com/products...uction-base-9-pin-b9a-noval-not-made-in-china

Then grab a pair of these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RFT-ECC81-...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

These are old Berlin tubes from the original Lorenz factory prior to Stuttgart. The best Lorenz made. The best tubes out of Germany. You will forget all about anything 6922 once you pop them in your amp with those adapters. 

You get a pair of adapters and tubes for less than the cost for 1 Siemens e88cc and endgame SQ.


----------



## Kingrex

Guidostrunk said:


> If you like German made tubes. Don't waste your money on any of the 6922/CCa/E188cc variants.
> 
> Grab a pair of these:
> https://pulsetubestore.com/products/12axx-to-ecc88-adapter-plug-play-novib-©-1960s-nos-british-mcmurdo-phenolic-socket-on-top-plus-vibration-reduction-base-9-pin-b9a-noval-not-made-in-china
> ...


I.would have to ask my tech if they are electrically compatible


----------



## Guidostrunk

Kingrex said:


> I.would have to ask my tech if they are electrically compatible


Your tech?🤔


----------



## jonathan c

Kingrex said:


> I.would have to ask my tech if they are electrically compatible


…is a tech part of the household staff…🤔?


----------



## Kingrex

jonathan c said:


> …is a tech part of the household staff…🤔?


Yes


----------



## Guidostrunk

Seems kinda peculiar that at least 1000 people on here use or have used adapters for other tubes , and 1 person is hanging in the balance from audio nirvana. 
To each their own. I'm glad I make my own decisions in life 😂


----------



## Guidostrunk

Without the adapters the tubes are not.


----------



## David222

Kingrex said:


> Yes




All hail King Rex.


----------



## Kingrex

Guidostrunk said:


> Your tech?🤔





Guidostrunk said:


> Seems kinda peculiar that at least 1000 people on here use or have used adapters for other tubes , and 1 person is hanging in the balance from audio nirvana.
> To each their own. I'm glad I make my own decisions in life 😂


I think not.  I doubt the tube you are hailing is some sort of audio grail of tubes.  Maybe, but I doubt it.  And adding crap chinese tube sockets with nebulous material quality as well as 3 additional connections points made up of dissimilar metal and solder connections inline with the most sensitive signal path in the preamp????  Not a good idea.

It is my understanding that a 12AT7 has different electrical characteristic than a 6922.  I have no idea how an adapter would make up for it.  So yes, I would ask a friend/consultant who is an electronics engineer what his thoughts are before I started willy nilly swapping possibly incorrect tubes into my equipment based upon some forum mambers advise on the internet.  Sorry to be snarky, but I always validate what I hear on the internet.  I started my business because what people tell you to do is many times very wrong and very dangerous.


----------



## Kingrex

Here is an online comment.  I assume my tech would say about the same.

ECC88/6922/6DJ8 do indeed have a lower mu of 33, and hence amplification factor than 12AT7's (mu = 60) and their variants. However, there are other issues such as proper biasing of the tubes since they do operate ideally at different currents and plate voltages, along with different filament voltages and currents as well. At 6.3V filament voltage, the 6922 requires 365mA while the 12AT7 requires 300mA. The 12AT7 can also work with a 12.6V filament source but only requires 150mA. 

The simple answer is no. You would have to redesign your tube preamp gain stage.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Kingrex said:


> I think not.  I doubt the tube you are hailing is some sort of audio grail of tubes.  Maybe, but I doubt it.  And adding crap chinese tube sockets with nebulous material quality as well as 3 additional connections points made up of dissimilar metal and solder connections inline with the most sensitive signal path in the preamp????  Not a good idea.
> 
> It is my understanding that a 12AT7 has different electrical characteristic than a 6922.  I have no idea how an adapter would make up for it.  So yes, I would ask a friend/consultant who is an electronics engineer what his thoughts are before I started willy nilly swapping possibly incorrect tubes into my equipment based upon some forum mambers advise on the internet.  Sorry to be snarky, but I always validate what I hear on the internet.  I started my business because what people tell you to do is many times very wrong and very dangerous.


😂😂😂 it's cool bro. I take it you never clicked on the adapter(not chinese) link and have never stepped outside of the required variants. 
Just continue what you're doing. No need to consult. 

I would have never suggested said tubes and adapters if it was going to ruin your gear. 
FYI , Mike Moffat was the one who started the adapter madness on here with the WE396a(non compatible without adapter). Him being one of the owners of Schiit , I trust his judgment. 

Cheers!


----------



## bcowen

Guidostrunk said:


> Seems kinda peculiar that at least 1000 people on here use or have used adapters for other tubes , and 1 person is hanging in the balance from audio nirvana.
> To each their own. I'm glad I make my own decisions in life 😂


Aw, c'mon man.  We all know you're actually a tech that's parading around in normal people clothes.  

Oooops....if I wasn't supposed to say that publicly, please berate me appropriately.   🤣🤣


----------



## Guidostrunk

bcowen said:


> Aw, c'mon man.  We all know you're actually a tech that's parading around in normal people clothes.
> 
> Oooops....if I wasn't supposed to say that publicly, please berate me appropriately.   🤣🤣


🤣🤣🤣


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Seems kinda peculiar that at least 1000 people on here use or have used adapters for other tubes , and 1 person is hanging in the balance from audio nirvana.
> To each their own. I'm glad I make my own decisions in life 😂


….perhaps reaching audio nirvana involves adapting to using adapters…🤔🤣…


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> Aw, c'mon man.  We all know you're actually a tech that's parading around in normal people clothes.


Actually, it’s this:


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> ….perhaps reaching audio nirvana involves adapting to using adapters…🤔🤣…


HAHAHAHAHA My drink just went through my nose! How's that for adapting?


----------



## Ripper2860

When you can snatch the 12AT/U7 from my hand, it will be time for you to leave, grasshopper.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I really wasn't trying to piss him off. Lol.
We all try and find the one(HG) and help others from spending $250 *cough* on a subpar tube. We've been down that rabbit hole and it gets quite expensive. I remember those guinea pig days 😂


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hell I remember being on this particular thread maybe 6 years ago all excited that I bought my first pair of 65 Siemens CCa($375) 😳


----------



## Guidostrunk

Holy crap. 2015 was 7 years ago 😂
So yeah more like 7 years ago on this thread.


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> I really wasn't trying to piss him off. Lol.
> We all try and find the one(HG) and help others from spending $250 *cough* on a subpar tube… 😂


Wait until he meets Bangybang! 🤣😈…


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> Wait until he meets Bangybang! 🤣😈…


😂 Nothing but the best 🤭


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> 😂 Nothing but the best 🤭


If he passes that test ===> menifee ===> wege_high_tubes …🤣😈🤣…


----------



## jonathan c

Ripper2860 said:


> When you can snatch the 12AT/U7 from my hand, it will be time for you to leave, _glasshopper…_


FTFY…Reg. TM; © bcowen: 2021]


----------



## bcowen (Mar 6, 2022)

Guidostrunk said:


> Hell I remember being on this particular thread maybe 6 years ago all excited that I bought my first pair of 65 Siemens CCa($375) 😳


LOL!  I vividly remember getting my first pair of CCa's, a bit longer ago than you. I was sooooooo excited, just knowing they would elevate my system into the realm of the almighty, the anticipation nearly killing me waiting for them to deliver.  Then....um, uh....what?  These holy grail tubes that an entire universe of audiophiles lusted over, foaming at the mouth while kneeling on one knee in their presence....they, um, uh, sound like, what? SOLID STATE?!?!?  ARRGGHHH!!!  My dreams dashed against the rocks, my faith shattered, my very existence brought into question.  I put my Amperex PQ's back in and the world resumed spinning on its normal axis.  Then...._only _then...did I first learn about adapters.

Actually, the CCa's weren't _that_ bad, just not what I was expecting and not worth (to me) anything close to what I paid for them. Live and learn. 😊


----------



## Guidostrunk

bcowen said:


> LOL!  I vividly remember getting my first pair of CCa's, a bit longer ago than you. I was sooooooo excited, just knowing they would elevate my system into the realm of the almighty, the anticipation nearly killing me waiting for them to deliver.  Then....um, uh....what?  These holy grail tubes that an entire universe of audiophiles lusted over, foaming at the mouth while kneeling on one knee in their presence....they, um, uh, sound like, what? SOLID STATE?!?!?  ARRGGHHH!!!  My dreams dashed against the rocks, my faith shattered, my very existence brought into question.  I put my Amperex PQ's back in and the world resumed spinning on its normal axis.  Then...._only _then...did I first learn about adapters.
> 
> Actually, the CCa's weren't _that_ bad, just not what I was expecting and not worth (to me) anything close to what I paid for them. Live and learn. 😊


I hear you bro. I think it was about a month or two later I had Valvo CCa yellow labels on the way and after a couple days of comparing. Off went the 65 Siemens and my 63 backup pair 😂 The Heerlens killed it for me. 
I was literally freaking out when I scored those first Siemens. I got the Alpha and Omegas and skipped the rest. They were so expensive at the time and I couldn't believe I got them at that price. The 63's I paid $400 😞 but didn't care coz they were CCa's 

Now I have some measly rft ecc81 after all these years that require adapters that terrify people 🤣

That's why they call it the rabbit hole lol


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## Kingrex

I'm not pissed.  I am upfront and strait forth.  If I like something or do not like something, I will speak up.  Being an electrician, I am sensitive to understanding the characteristics of a circuit.   If someone smokes there $350 Valhalla, big deal.  But what if someone got the smart idea to put this tube/tube adaptor in their $8K preamp or $15K amp and the circuit became unstable and damage occures. 

I am only saying its not a good idea to listen to forum chatter and think you can willy nilly alter the electrical characteristics of your amp/preamp circuit with improper tubes and not be cognizant It may destroy your equipment. 

Stick with tubes that were desinged to work in the circuit.  If you can't find one that works and you need to insert a tube that has incorrect electrical characteristics, and that makes your equipment sound good, then I would start looking at my equipment and wondering what is wrong with it????  

I myself have tried many tubes.  Amprex white label bugle boys have been good.  In my CJ Premier they were one of my favorite.   In my First Sound or any other amps, they were a little muffled and bloated.  The Telefunken are always more clean and linear.  The Siemens similar but with midrange bump that is slightly rounded.

Non of the 6922 sound that good in the Valhalla.  They are too clean and neutral.  They sound overdriven.


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## jclyle

I'm selling my Valhalla 2 with a bundle of tubes:
https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/valhalla-2-nos-stash.21773/


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## Pondoro

This is the most complete Valhalla thread I can find. I am thinking about a third Schiit preamp. I have a Vali 2+ and a Saga +. Considering a Valhalla. This is for a third _system._ I would use it for driving a low powered tube amp 95% of the time and for headphones the rest of the time. I like my Saga better than the Vali, although I am very happy with the Vali. I do not need a remote for the new system, it will be bedside. Pros for the Vali is I already have several spare tubes. Pros for the Valhalla is "I have never heard one." Pros for the Saga is "I like it."


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## jonathan c

Pondoro said:


> This is the most complete Valhalla thread I can find. I am thinking about a third Schiit preamp. I have a Vali 2+ and a Saga +. Considering a Valhalla. This is for a third _system._ I would use it for driving a low powered tube amp 95% of the time and for headphones the rest of the time. I like my Saga better than the Vali, although I am very happy with the Vali. I do not need a remote for the new system, it will be bedside. Pros for the Vali is I already have several spare tubes. Pros for the Valhalla is "I have never heard one." Pros for the Saga is "I like it."


What about the ultimate pro: I _want _it 😩


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## Ripper2860

Keep in mind that Valhalla does dump a lot of heat, so if you're OK with a space heater on your nightstand next to your bed then Valhalla would be a very nice choice.


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## Pondoro

Ripper2860 said:


> Keep in mind that Valhalla does dump a lot of heat, so if you're OK with a space heater on your nightstand next to your bed then Valhalla would be a very nice choice.


In that case the Valhalla would replace the Vali in the too-cold living room! How does it sound?


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## Kingrex

Valhalla is a nice piece for the money.  I don't worry about the heat.  But mine make a weird squeel.   It's not that loud.  But sitting on a nightstand next to my head would be a distraction.


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## Ripper2860 (Mar 20, 2022)

Pondoro said:


> In that case the Valhalla would replace the Vali in the too-cold living room! How does it sound?



I love mine.  While it can drive a wide array of HPs, it truly excels with high impedence HPs like the HD6XX.

(I've never encountered a squeal, but then again it's not right by my head.  Maybe 2.5 feet away.)


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## jonathan c

Valhalla II is great; Lyr III is better. One tube to ‘roll’ (6SN7) / two tubes to ‘roll’ (6J5s with adapter), better sound, less heat.


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## Ripper2860 (Mar 20, 2022)

YMMV.  I actually like the VH2 better than Lyr 3 with my HD6XX.  And I've tried a multitude of tubes on each. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. Can't go wrong with either, but I'd be hard pressed to say one is better than the other - just different. 😉


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## jclyle

Want to try tube rolling in your Valhalla? Here's a bundle of tubes and TubeMonger 12Axx to 6922 adapters I'm selling.
https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/12atubes-adapters.23782/


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## Ripper2860

A thing of beauty.


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## jonathan c

Ripper2860 said:


> A thing of beauty.


…with rear tubes higher than front tubes, especially so for its OCD owner…🤣


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## MacMan31 (Apr 25, 2022)

I meant to post in the Valhalla 2 amp thread. Please remove this post.


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## MacMan31

ScubaMan2017 said:


> @jonathan c ... I looked at your post, mused, 'huh... meh... why not' and picked up a pair of matched greenies. They go for $80 CAD here in Southern Ontario. I'm unconvinced I can tell the difference between different brands of 6N6P valves (_so I'll stick with its stock units_). I'm looking forward to some deep listening this weekend.



Where did you get these tubes? I'm also in Ontario.


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## tudedude

So I got some Mullard tubes but one is louder than the other. Is it okay to match their volume levels with an equalizer? Will that be equivalent as if the tubes were the same out of the box?


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## tudedude

The Mullards flattened the sounds and gimped the bass so I think I'll cut my losses and stick with the stock tubes which sound amazing enough.


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## Melting735 (Sep 27, 2022)

Where can I find 6922 to 5670 adaptor nowadays? Everything that I found was from 5670 to 6922.

******
Nvm, found them


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## bildar

tudedude said:


> The Mullards flattened the sounds and gimped the bass so I think I'll cut my losses and stick with the stock tubes which sound amazing enough.


I just switched back to stock and it sounds fantastic.


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## tricolor

Hey! Happy New Gregorian Year of 2023! 
Hope this year will bring you all  lots of joy & great music! 

Here's my pile of Schiit!  

The amazing pairing of the RFT ECC81 & Valhalla 2!!!


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## Lvivske

tricolor said:


> Hey! Happy New Gregorian Year of 2023!
> Hope this year will bring you all  lots of joy & great music!



Sorry but it's a little late for new years!


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## tricolor (Jan 5, 2023)

Niiiiice... she reminds me of Phoebe/Friends... hehe. On side note... how to do like your Lokius?  I've bought one, but waiting still for it to arrive...


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## jonathan c

tricolor said:


> Hey! Happy New Gregorian Year of 2023!
> Hope this year will bring you all  lots of joy & great music!
> 
> Here's my pile of Schiit!
> ...


An excellent choice of tubes (and of adapters).


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## Lvivske

tricolor said:


> Niiiiice... she reminds me of Phoebe/Friends... hehe. On side note... how to do like your Lokius?  I've bought one, but waiting still for it to arrive...



I like it, I guess it's on the same level as the Loki and looks nice with the Bifrost on my desk. Dialed it in, set and forget. Only complaint I had was how they set the sensitivity of the knobs.

I may buy another one for a future setup just because I love analog EQ


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## tricolor

jonathan c said:


> An excellent choice of tubes (and of adapters).


Thanks. Had some cheapo adapters from e-Bay but they started cracking and making weird "feedback?" noise...  so I guess we get what we pay...
I love the Mullard's (NOS) CV4024's but their prices have sky rocketed BIG time... I still have a pair or two kicking around, hehe, but I am happy to have found good ones that won't break the piggy bank...


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## tricolor

Lvivske said:


> I like it, I guess it's on the same level as the Loki and looks nice with the Bifrost on my desk. Dialed it in, set and forget. Only complaint I had was how they set the sensitivity of the knobs.
> 
> I may buy another one for a future setup just because I love analog EQ


Right on. I had an old vintage EQ but it stopped working. Well... got some crazy humming screwing things up, so decided to pile up my Schiit even further and deeper...


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## jonathan c

tricolor said:


> Thanks. Had some cheapo adapters from e-Bay but they started cracking and making weird "feedback?" noise...  so I guess we get what we pay...
> I love the Mullard's (NOS) CV4024's but their prices have sky rocketed BIG time... I still have a pair or two kicking around, hehe, but I am happy to have found good ones that won't break the piggy bank...


I have a number of pairs of RFT ‘yellow print’ ECC81 tubes: rolling into a variety of tube h/p/a. Excellent and do not cost 💪 + 🦵. Do those in your Valhalla 2 have ‘halo’ getters or ‘foil’ getters?


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## Lvivske

tricolor said:


> Right on. I had an old vintage EQ but it stopped working. Well... got some crazy humming screwing things up, so decided to pile up my Schiit even further and deeper...



For sure, I have a vintage one and though I haven't restored it, and though it functions fine, _that_ particular setup is highly sensitive and totally picks up the noise floor it introduces - so I have a Loki doing the work instead (and I'm sure the Lokius is quieter)

I have found my Loki, and Lokius, both pick tons of EMI hum though, especially when closer to my Valhalla or power sections, so be mindful of placement

also, knobs > sliders


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## tricolor

jonathan c said:


> I have a number of pairs of RFT ‘yellow print’ ECC81 tubes: rolling into a variety of tube h/p/a. Excellent and do not cost 💪 + 🦵. Do those in your Valhalla 2 have ‘halo’ getters or ‘foil’ getters?


Good question. How do I know the difference? Mine are also yellow. The top is quite dark, compared to the Mullard's or  Brimar's.


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## tricolor

Lvivske said:


> For sure, I have a vintage one and though I haven't restored it, and though it functions fine, _that_ particular setup is highly sensitive and totally picks up the noise floor it introduces - so I have a Loki doing the work instead (and I'm sure the Lokius is quieter)
> 
> I have found my Loki, and Lokius, both pick tons of EMI hum though, especially when closer to my Valhalla or power sections, so be mindful of placement
> 
> also, knobs > sliders


Yeah, I'll keep that in mind. I read on the Schiit website also about the  need of a "rack" to minimize the issue... or simply move it away... let's see. Still somewhere out there, in transit... hehehe. Hopefully I'll get it in the next few days...


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## jonathan c

tricolor said:


> Good question. How do I know the difference? Mine are also yellow. The top is quite dark, compared to the Mullard's or  Brimar's.


You would have to take the tube out and look towards the top underside….beneath the inner silvery plating….


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## regaet

jonathan c said:


> I have a number of pairs of RFT ‘yellow print’ ECC81 tubes: rolling into a variety of tube h/p/a. Excellent and do not cost 💪 + 🦵. Do those in your Valhalla 2 have ‘halo’ getters or ‘foil’ getters?


How do the Halo getters compare to the foil? I ordered some for a friend since the foil getters are hard to find but they are in shipping limbo and I'm waiting for them to reappear after they make it through customs.


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## tricolor

I'll check later on tonight when I'm back home. I *think*  they are halo... got them from The Tube Store (https://www.thetubestore.com/rft-ecc81-12at7).
No idea how it sounds compared to foil, but they do sound pretty sweet compared to the Mullard's CV4024's, which is my favorite. (Too bad these are getting expensive and hard to get), so I am super happy the RTF's are still affordable and available.


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## jonathan c

regaet said:


> How do the Halo getters compare to the foil?


Simply stated, _to me _if the RFT ECC81 (halo getter) tube is a “10”, the RFT ECC81 (foil getter) tube is a “12”.  🤷🏻‍♂️


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## tricolor

tricolor said:


> I'll check later on tonight when I'm back home. I *think*  they are halo... got them from The Tube Store (https://www.thetubestore.com/rft-ecc81-12at7).
> No idea how it sounds compared to foil, but they do sound pretty sweet compared to the Mullard's CV4024's, which is my favorite. (Too bad these are getting expensive and hard to get), so I am super happy the RTF's are still affordable and available.


Here is the tube from below..  yep, halo it is... I'm quite happy with the way it sounds, so I can only imagine how wicked the foil version is... 
Happy Friday, folks!


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## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> Simply stated, _to me _if the RFT ECC81 (halo getter) tube is a “10”, the RFT ECC81 (foil getter) tube is a “12”.  🤷🏻‍♂️


My amp only goes to 11.  Damnit.   🤣


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## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> My amp only goes to 11.  Damnit.   🤣


1.)  A Manson “11” equals everyone else “♾”
2.)  “11” is “12” too much for Captain & Tennille 🙉.


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## Mr Trev

jonathan c said:


> Simply stated, _to me _if the RFT ECC81 (halo getter) tube is a “10”, the RFT ECC81 (foil getter) tube is a “12”.  🤷🏻‍♂️


Man, this talk about RFT foil getters made me dig out my 12au7. Unprovoked glass crack!! Damn you, 2023!!


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## tricolor

Mr Trev said:


> Man, this talk about RFT foil getters made me dig out my 12au7. Unprovoked glass crack!! Damn you, 2023!!


 hope you have spares... 
How's the volume like? Aren't 12AU7 "lower" on the volume? Compared to 12AT7 & 12AX7?


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## Mr Trev

tricolor said:


> hope you have spares...
> How's the volume like? Aren't 12AU7 "lower" on the volume? Compared to 12AT7 & 12AX7?


Spares? Pffft! Having spares is like reading the manual.
12au7 is lower gain. Honestly, I've never tried the at7/ax7 types. I'm using a Vali2 BTW, I just lurk here looking for tube ideas


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## jonathan c

Mr Trev said:


> Spares? Pffft! Having spares is like reading the manual.
> 12au7 is lower gain. Honestly, I've never tried the at7/ax7 types. I'm using a Vali2 BTW, I just lurk here looking for tube ideas….


….in that case, try Raytheon CK 5670 ($$) or Western Electric 396A / 2C51 ($$$$). [The dollar signs are especially relative to Vali 2 price 😜.]


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## Mr Trev

jonathan c said:


> ….in that case, try Raytheon CK 5670 ($$) or Western Electric 396A / 2C51 ($$$$). [The dollar signs are especially relative to Vali 2 price 😜.]


If I can find a WE for less than I paid for my amp, I'm in. Haven't heard that Raytheon mentioned before. Since we're talking that family, I have a Tesla something-or-other (they have weird naming) that doesn't completely half suck


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## jonathan c

Mr Trev said:


> If I can find a WE for less than I paid for my amp, I'm in. Haven't heard that Raytheon mentioned before. Since we're talking that family, I have a Tesla something-or-other (they have weird naming) that doesn't completely half suck.


Prob(WE396A < VALI.2) = 0️⃣. 🤣


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## Ripper2860

2C51s will require an adapter.  I love the WE396As with my VH2, but gotta say that I do like the Tung-sol smoked glass 2C51s a tad better.


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## David222

Ripper2860 said:


> 2C51s will require an adapter.  I love the WE396As with my VH2, but gotta say that I do like the Tung-sol smoked glass 2C51s a tad better.



Have you tried Bendix 2C51 ?

Of all the 2C51 - this is one of the few I've not yet heard - but read on here folks seem to enjoy


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## dpump

Are you guys talking about 5670 and WE 396A for the Valhalla or the Vali 2÷÷?


Mr Trev said:


> If I can find a WE for less than I paid for my amp, I'm in. Haven't heard that Raytheon mentioned before. Since we're talking that family, I have a Tesla something-or-other (they have weird naming) that doesn't completely half suck


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## Ripper2860

dpump said:


> Are you guys talking about 5670 and WE 396A for the Valhalla or the Vali 2÷÷?


I'm talking VH2.  I assumed it's for VH2 given the thread, but...



David222 said:


> Have you tried Bendix 2C51 ?
> 
> Of all the 2C51 - this is one of the few I've not yet heard - but read on here folks seem to enjoy


I have not.  Hopefully it's not at a  crazy price like the Bendix graphite plate 6080s.


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## LobalWarming

Ripper2860 said:


> I'm talking VH2.  I assumed it's for VH2 given the thread, but...
> 
> 
> I have not.  Hopefully it's not at a  crazy price like the Bendix graphite plate 6080s.


Not quite crazy... but definitely borderline. Unless you can offset the cost with bbq.


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## exchez

LobalWarming said:


> Not quite crazy... but definitely borderline. Unless you can offset the cost with bbq.


I thought the "holy grille" Bendix 2C51 was milspec with three micas. I've been seeing a lot of the two mica versions on eBay recently (usually branded as eclipse-pioneer). Anyone been able to compare the two?


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## jclyle (Yesterday at 3:40 AM)

Do the Ampata 9pin socket savers on Amazon fit into the chassis on a Valhalla?
The seller states the diameter is 2.4cm, height is 1.9cm.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B099RNC8ZX/


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