# Pico Slim first impressions and reviews thread. See p31 onwards for a couple of solid reviews + pics + useful info.



## Currawong

I don't usually start threads, but I thought I'd get the ball rolling now that people have had their Slims shipped and I know I'll be receiving mine soon.

 If you're posting impressions, it would help to know what DAP and cable you're using, as well as what music you listen to and roughly how loud, eg: low, medium or loud. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





*Updates*: Links have been fixed.
*HeadphoneAddict* posted some comments on the prototype he heard some time ago.
*vpivinylspinner* was the first to receive his and take pics here. (Page 4) Size comparisons here too (page 5).
*Walkgood* followed up soon after with un-boxing and close-up pictures. (Page 5)
*SoupRKnowva* has compared his to the protector. See also his subsequent posts on that page.
*cheemo* has posted a short impression.
*Oogabooga* has posted quite comprehensive initial impressions.
   
*June 9 Update:*
  Useful info/discussion about plugs and scratches starts from page 31. If you want the meat of the info, start from this page.
*qusp* posted a solid summary/review.  
*Hotdoggie* also posted a good review, including how he buffed out some scratches.
   
*August 2: A couple of pictures:*
   
  Oyaide/FiiO L5 LOD, Whiplash TWAG LOD, Pico Slim, iPhone 3GS:

   
  Slim/iPhone 3GS thickness comparison:

   
   
  Slim/iPhone 4 comparison: (They are the same thickness):


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## LevA

I was on the pre-order list for only a day and then decided to cancel. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 congrats to all those who will receive their lovely slim soon and look forward to comments here in the thread. from the initial try outs it looks like you guys are all in for a treat. 
 good luck leaving your music and going to work next week! thats gotta be hard..


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## jamato8

I look forward to impressions as they come in, which would appear to start soon.

 edit: I didn't think it would be missed. Sometimes I like to take up less room. :^)


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## kunalraiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I look forward to impressions as they come in, which would appear to start soon._

 

where is your sig


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## qusp

hahaha. looking forward to the first impressions of the final production versions of the amp while I wait for mine


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## Region2

I can't wait to post here, though it'll be a couple months down the line. Still it'll be great to read about everyone's impressions and combinations so I can get a good idea before it comes.


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## HeadphoneAddict

Can you guys just wait for impressions to be posted, instead of making this 50 pages of rambling before they ever start arriving?


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## GreatDane

I'm psyched to be able to post here. I bought a Cowon i9 to pair with PS(Pico Slim). I plan to use my newest IEM purchase(Ortofon) to put this rig into action. All Black...is beautiful.I'll be using an EFN mini>mini. Will post pics.


_"Can you guys just wait for impressions to be posted, instead of making this 50 pages of rambling before they ever start arriving?" _- HA

*Too late*


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## qusp

hehe Larry, not much chance of that with how excited people are about this amp. wont be anything like the JH13 thread tho as it was only started as the first units were shipping. its probably best if people wait till you have an amp top appreciate before starting a thread, but I can understand how and why it happened with the way the order thread was going.


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## The Monkey

I've heard pre-production models; they were good.


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## HeadphoneAddict

Since I've heard the demo unit too, and spent a couple of weeks with it at my home, I'll chime in until I get my own next week. 

 Like The Monkey says, the Slim is good. It's replacing my P-51 and T3 as my ultraportable amp for my 5G Nano. And it's a perfect match for my ES3X, UE11pro and Westone 2/3. My JH13Pro sound a little better out of the Protector in balanced mode which fills in the mids nicely, while they get a noticeable bump in bass with the Slim that wasn't always desirable, but sometimes welcome nevertheless. It's a very smooth and refined sounding portable, without any edge or grain, and good extension in the bass and treble. Soundstage is deeper than with my RSA amps, and it sounds a lot like the original Pico but with some added warmth and fullness in the sound that I thought was missing in the original.

 PS: It doesn't drive my full size phones like my HD600 with authority, but that is not it's intended market either. It did well with my HF-2. I don't recall how it was with any others if I tried them.


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## Valens7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Like The Monkey says, the Slim is good._

 

Who knew that chimps were capable of critical listening? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm sorry, but I couldn't resist. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway, if this unit offers an appreciable improvement over the standard Pico, that would really be something. I'm looking forward to seeing impressions.


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## The Monkey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Valens7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Who knew that chimps were capable of critical listening? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm sorry, but I couldn't resist. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



_

 

Capable of critical listening? Me? Likely not. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But I can say one thing: I think the Pico Slim is better than the Protector with the JH13--and not by a small margin.

 EDIT: Also, I did not hear the same bass bump that HPA mentioned above with the Pico Slim. Anything but, in fact. The TTVJ Slim, now that has some bass bump. ymmv I guess.


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## SoupRKnowva

^ you think the slim is better than the protector with the jh-13? could you go into a bit more detail about why that is monkey? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i could wait and find out for myself since im in the first shipment for the slim, but nothing like some early impressions.


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## The Monkey

I thought the JH13 sounded less focused out of the Protector. The Pico Slim provided more slam and better detail. The bass on the Protector sounded a bit tubby to me. To it's credit, I did not find the Protector shouty. The Slim just sounded more coherent to me. And the volume control is no contest.


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## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The Monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought the JH13 sounded less focused out of the Protector. The Pico Slim provided more slam and better detail. The bass on the Protector sounded a bit tubby to me. To it's credit, I did not find the Protector shouty. The Slim just sounded more coherent to me. And the volume control is no contest._

 

Did you notice any difference in the soundstage at all between the two? also...thanks for the info


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## The Monkey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoupRKnowva* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you notice any difference in the soundstage at all between the two?_

 

Not really, but that doesn't mean there wasn't a difference. Probably would need some more time. People seem to be raving about the Protector's soundstage. Frankly, I think that has more to do with the JH13 itself. But who knows.

  Quote:


 also...thanks for the info 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 

No problem. Just remember to take it with a grain of salt. More like a salt lick.


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## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The Monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not really, but that doesn't mean there wasn't a difference. Probably would need some more time. People seem to be raving about the Protector's soundstage. Frankly, I think that has more to do with the JH13 itself. But who knows._

 

i wish i could say, the only amp ive heard it with is with the protector. but the jh-13 does have a rather large SS for a iem so i think you may be right 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote:


 No problem. Just remember to take it with a grain of salt. More like a salt lick. 
 

for sure


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The Monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Capable of critical listening? Me? Likely not. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But I can say one thing: I think the Pico Slim is better than the Protector with the JH13--and not by a small margin.

 EDIT: Also, I did not hear the same bass bump that HPA mentioned above with the Pico Slim. Anything but, in fact. The TTVJ Slim, now that has some bass bump. ymmv I guess._

 

Sherwood heard the bass bump with his JH13pro too. But, it can change depending on source and music too.


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## The Monkey

Sounds like the source and music could be more responsible for that then.


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## kostalex




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## imademymark

hi monkey just to clarify did you compare the protector single ended to the pico slim single ended or 

 the protector balanced to the pico slim single ended?


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## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoupRKnowva* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you notice any difference in the soundstage at all between the two? …_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The Monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not really, but that doesn't mean there wasn't a difference. Probably would need some more time. People seem to be raving about the Protector's soundstage. *Frankly, I think that has more to do with the JH13 itself*. But who knows. …_

 

IMO I believe people attribute too many source and headphone qualities to amps, so I would agree with your opinion here Monkey. On another note, I also tested the pre-production model at a local meet and as others, I am also looking forward to receiving mine. In the mean time, here’s my …

*opinion*
 The slim is strikingly small and thin, similar to the size of a nano. I was impressed with its overall size, great build quality and performance. My main reason for focusing on it as a portable is for iem/custom monitor use and the digital potentiometer attenuation, which is remarkable. I had to turn it close to ¼ to actually hear the music and the steps are very minor as stated by others, allowing you to adjust music to a very precise level for iem’s. I am not sure if that’s the same adjustment that will be in the production model, either way I’m sure it will be set appropriately as HeadAmp makes great products.

 The channel matching is dead on and probably impossible to tell the difference with human ears, although I am not the best judge of that. A cool feature she sports is her volume memory, an ability to raise the volume back to where you previously had it when you turn her off to speak with others. I honestly can’t say that any amp improves the soundstage, treble, mids or bass (aside from dedicated bass boost, which she does not have) as others have written. Sure an amp can enhance them by improving on the stereo crosstalk which might improve perceived soundstage/stereo separation but I believe these depend more on the iem’s you use. 

 Battery life is staggering as Justin told me he was getting almost 70 hours use time and it will be interesting for us all to compare what we get in the field. Well we all have our own opinions, looking forward to reading others and I certainly have no complaints after testing her and just like others I am looking forward to enjoying the music with her ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪


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## The Monkey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *imademymark* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi monkey just to clarify did you compare the protector single ended to the pico slim single ended or 

 the protector balanced to the pico slim single ended?_

 


 Protector balanced/Pico Slim single ended. Protector under meet conditions (though probably less of an issue with customs). Source I believe was Ray's Meridian. Pico Slim with a couple of different sources (I forget which DACs I had at the time), but mostly out of an iMod.


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## boomana

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sherwood heard the bass bump with his JH13pro too. But, it can change depending on source and music too._

 

Granted, I've only heard the slim for a couple days twice, and in my own home once, but I didn't experience a mid-bass hump. I'm kinda against mid-bass humps and would have gone with the ttvj slim had there been a noticeable one with the pico slim. I guess when we all have the chance to live with it for awhile, more will be revealed.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WalkGood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A cool feature she sports is her volume memory, an ability to raise the volume back to where you previously had it when you turn her off to speak with others._

 

That feature was in the prototype only and will not be in the final product. I think the delay was too long.


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## Bolardito

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The Monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Protector balanced/Pico Slim single ended. Protector under meet conditions (though probably less of an issue with customs). Source I believe was Ray's Meridian. Pico Slim with a couple of different sources (I forget which DACs I had at the time), but mostly out of an iMod._

 

Wow I guess the Pico Slim is reallly a new level in portables..I have been very impressed with the protector + JH13 balanced. I have owned the Tomahawk and the Alo RX and both are far behind vs. the Protector in overall performance.


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## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomana* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ ... I guess when we all have the chance to live with it for awhile, more will be revealed.

 That feature was in the prototype only and will not be in the final product. I think the delay was too long._

 

I think you are right that once we live with her for a while we'll notice more ... BTW thanks boomana for the heads up on the feature elimination, haven't spoke to Justin since FL meet and would have hated to find out during use.


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## The Monkey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bolardito* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow I guess the Pico Slim is reallly a new level in portables..I have been very impressed with the protector + JH13 balanced. I have owned the Tomahawk and the Alo RX and both are far behind vs. the Protector in overall performance._

 

I don't know about that. I'm just a data point. I'm sure some will prefer other offerings out there. But I do think the Pico Slim is worth a try.


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## DaeO

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The Monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know about that. I'm just a data point. I'm sure some will prefer other offerings out there. But I do think the *Pico Slim is worth a try*._

 

We should know soon - the race is on - wonder who will check in first with their new toy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 First ones may be delivered tommorow if you are in the US?

 Happy listening


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## boomana

I'm thinking more tues. or wed.


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomana* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Granted, I've only heard the slim for a couple days twice, and in my own home once, but I didn't experience a mid-bass hump. I'm kinda against mid-bass humps and would have gone with the ttvj slim had there been a noticeable one with the pico slim. I guess when we all have the chance to live with it for awhile, more will be revealed._

 

I think it's also partly a synergy issue, because the while the Slim also improved/increased the ES3X bass it did not give the UE11Pro or W3 a mid bass bump. Those definitly dont need one. The bass also improved after switching from iPhone 3GS/TWag to an iBasso D4 as DAC feeding the Slim.


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## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaeO* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ ... First ones may be delivered tommorow if you are in the US? ..._

 

I wish, but according to this post from the 16th, the first batch would have been shipped Saturday the 17th, Monday seems to soon ... but yea one can hope ...


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## vpivinylspinner

According to USPS mine is at the local Postal Service center so I might actually get mine tomorrow.


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## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vpivinylspinner* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_According to USPS mine is at the local Postal Service center so I might actually get mine tomorrow._

 

Thanks, that's good to hear, then mine shoud be here soon as I'm #6 but didn't get confirmation # yet via email.


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## gp_hebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think it's also partly a synergy issue, because the while the Slim also improved/increased the ES3X bass it did not give the UE11Pro or W3 a mid bass bump. Those definitly dont need one. The bass also improved after switching from iPhone 3GS/TWag to an iBasso D4 as DAC feeding the Slim._

 

Considering that these phones all have pretty similar impedances, it's surprising that the amp would give a mid-bass bump to one and not to the other.


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## Currawong

I've noticed that my TF10s tend to have a lot more bass when plugged into an amp of any kind vs directly from an iPod. Also, different generations of iPod give them varying amounts of bass. It wouldn't surprise me if it were the same for other IEMs. It would certainly explain why portable amps are so popular, as a sudden bass boost is the quickest way to give the impression of an improvement in sound to the average person.


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## gp_hebert

I agree with that, but one headphone plugged in different amps is not the same as multiple headphones plugged in one amp. The amp sees a load and transmits the amplified signal, but it doesn't know the difference between a UE11Pro or a ES3X. So it makes no sense when Larry says that the amp gives a bass boost to one of his IEMs but not to the other.


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## sachu

The proto pico slim I heard was just wonderful for IEMs and good enough for grados too. Its diminutive size is a credit to the design abilities of Justin.


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## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vpivinylspinner* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_According to USPS mine is at the local Postal Service center so I might actually get mine tomorrow._

 

According to the USPS website mine should be here monday as well


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## Jalo

For those of you that are getting your slim on Monday, could you please post some initial impressions for those of us that are still dripping or salivating? Even though the slim may not have burnt in, but initial impressions are always fun to read and know. We also like to know whether the sound changes over time or not? Does anyone know how long is the recommended burn in time?

 Wanted to know also is whether the production model is any different from the demo version. Whether the memory for power on feature got retained from before? and do we know about gain settings? is it controlable via software setting? Looking forward to monday to hear from you guys.


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## justin w.

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those of you that are getting your slim on Monday, could you please post some initial impressions for those of us that are still dripping or salivating? Even though the slim may not have burnt in, but initial impressions are always fun to read and know. We also like to know whether the sound changes over time or not? Does anyone know how long is the recommended burn in time?

 Wanted to know also is whether the production model is any different from the demo version. Whether the memory for power on feature got retained from before? and do we know about gain settings? is it controlable via software setting? Looking forward to monday to hear from you guys._

 

I did not keep the setting that slowly increased the volume to the position of the knob at power-on. what was a reasonable delay with a sensitive IEM became an extremely long delay with a full size headphone. the gain changes as you turn the volume knob, it's a variable gain amplifier


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## DaeO

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those of you that are getting your slim on Monday, could you please post some initial impressions for those of us that are still dripping or salivating? Even though the slim may not have burnt in, but initial impressions are always fun to read and know. We also like to know whether the sound changes over time or not? Does anyone know how long is the recommended burn in time?

 Wanted to know also is whether the production model is any different from the demo version. Whether the *memory for power on feature *got retained from before? and do we know about gain settings? is it controlable via software setting? Looking forward to monday to hear from you guys._

 

^^


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## Jalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *justin w.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...the gain changes as you turn the volume knob, it's a variable gain amplifier_

 

Wow, Justin, is it a new features? It is definitly a new concept to me. It sound like it's similar to CVT (Continuous Variable Transmission) in car. I just love new technology whether they'll hold up over time or not, I like new thinking a nd new ways of doing things. Good job.

 How long do you think the burn in time needs to be?


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## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *justin w.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did not keep the setting that slowly increased the volume to the position of the knob at power-on. what was a reasonable delay with a sensitive IEM became an extremely long delay with a full size headphone. the gain changes as you turn the volume knob, it's a variable gain amplifier_

 

oh wow, does that mean that the volume control isnt attenuating the input at all? and is instead just changing the gain value? though that is all just hopeful speculation based on your comments


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## The Monkey

Let's give the burn-in stuff a rest for at least 7 minutes.


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## Jalo

7 minutes is up.


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## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *justin w.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did not keep the setting that slowly increased the volume to the position of the knob at power-on. what was a reasonable delay with a sensitive IEM became an extremely long delay with a full size headphone. the gain changes as you turn the volume knob, it's a variable gain amplifier_

 

I would like to know if at one point in time, possibly in the future, if you would give us access to change these settings or features? Do we need special software that you would sell or make available or if we could just access it via usb connected to a linux box?


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gp_hebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Considering that these phones all have pretty similar impedances, it's surprising that the amp would give a mid-bass bump to one and not to the other._

 

Not just one, I said it did it with the ES3X as well, which was a welcome addition there. 

 As for the UE11Pro and W3, they are known to be bass heavy with some amps, while the bass is often better controlled with other certain amps. The Slim and Protector both control the UE11Pro bass better than other portable amps, with the 3MOVE a distant 3rd place behind them. In other reports I thought the 3MOVE controlled the UE11pro bass a little better than the original Pico or the P-51. So, the Slim and Protector do it better than their predecessors. I know this sounds weird, but it's what I heard. I'll be able to spend a lot of time with these amps in the future, and then I can focus more on these findings and see how I feel about them over the long term.


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gp_hebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree with that, but one headphone plugged in different amps is not the same as multiple headphones plugged in one amp. The amp sees a load and transmits the amplified signal, but it doesn't know the difference between a UE11Pro or a ES3X. So it makes no sense when Larry says that the amp gives a bass boost to one of his IEMs but not to the other._

 

I'm wondering if there could be other factors involved. I am not an EE, but could things like sensitivity, dampening factor, inductance, and capacitance be involved and not just resistance (which can vary by frequency and also affect the reaction to being amped)? I am asking, not stating.


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## The Monkey

Mine is "out for delivery." Hope to have it tonight. I'll post my impressions with the K1000.


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## gp_hebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The Monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine is "out for delivery." Hope to have it tonight. I'll post my impressions with the K1000._

 

Don't forget the recommended 347h burn-in period.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm wondering if there could be other factors involved. I am not an EE, but could things like sensitivity, dampening factor, inductance, and capacitance be involved and not just resistance (which can vary by frequency and also affect the reaction to being amped)? I am asking, not stating._

 

I couldn't say, I don't have enough experience myself with these parameters in headphones. I can affirm with certainty though that if an amp exhibits a bass boost in its frequency response, it's going to be apparent on any headphones with similar impedance curve plugged to it.


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## moonboy403

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The Monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine is "out for delivery." Hope to have it tonight. I'll post my impressions with the K1000._

 

Actually, I was hoping that you can post your impression with your O2 plugged into the Slim via a Stax adapter.


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## Godziltw

Waiting to see the impressions


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## spritzer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm wondering if there could be other factors involved. I am not an EE, but could things like sensitivity, dampening factor, inductance, and capacitance be involved and not just resistance (which can vary by frequency and also affect the reaction to being amped)? I am asking, not stating._

 

The true impedance of the headphones (i.e. not the nominal stuff they are rated at) could be a factor if the amp wasn't able to swing enough voltage into the load but that isn't the issue here. The Slim is more then capable of driving any of these phones and with power to spare. Now what's inside those multidriver sets could be the issue as not all dividing networks are created equal.


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## vpivinylspinner

#27 is in my Hands.

 Pictures Soon.


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## FRGus723

Congrats! Let us know how #27 sounds. I would be interested specifically in JH13 sound as I have the 16's.


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## vpivinylspinner

The typical Glamour shots upon first opening.


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gp_hebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I couldn't say, I don't have enough experience myself with these parameters in headphones. I can affirm with certainty though that if an amp exhibits a bass boost in its frequency response, it's going to be apparent on any headphones with similar impedance curve plugged to it._

 

Regardless, I liked the Slim enough to buy it and put my P-51 up in the FS forum. It's a great amp, and other than my iBasso T3 it's the only one that I can stack under my 5G Nano and comfortably fit the combo in my pocket that way.


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## FRGus723

So it appears to be roughly the same width and height of a Nano albeit a little shorter. These things are getting so small. I just go the shadow while I am waiting for my Slim and I can't believe how small these things are getting.

 I'm drooling 

 Looking forward to your impressions.


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## DaeO

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vpivinylspinner* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_#27 is in my Hands._

 

Congrats

 Nice pics too

 Enjoy


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## vpivinylspinner

A couple more for size comparisons.

 iPod Touch and Pico Slim








 And for those with truly "DEEP" pockets, iPad and Slim


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## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vpivinylspinner* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The typical Glamour shots upon first opening.



















_

 

NICE, looks like a perfect match to the Nano.

 Humm, I guess the ship# or order# does not match serial #. You are 20 on order and 18 o ship but you received serial #27.


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## vpivinylspinner

Luckily I am not a five year old so I don't really care. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So far listened with the Nano and out of the Pico DAC via whiplash TWAg mini>mini. The amp really shines with the great source but sounds quite good connected to the Nano as well, maybe just a bit less bass, a little less texture.


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## SoupRKnowva

Got mine in my hands, number 016 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 its charging right now, while i go eat dinner, when i get back ill be plugging in and taking it for a spin, impressions to come.

 BUt the first impression...this thing is freakin tiny!!!! i thought the protector was small, this thing blows it away! i knew it was going to, but its still amazing how small the damn thing is. Props to justin for that

 Edit: mine also didnt match, i was ship order 008 and i got 016, but as vpivinylspinner said, im not 5 and could care less, its the exact same amp with the exact same warranty as number 008


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## boomana

I'm listening to my jh13s with an ipod classic, twag mini lod, and pico slim right now. I'll post impressions after I've lived with it for awhile, but I will say that right now I'm completely happy with my decision to go with the pico slim as my portable amp, and have a big smile on my face.

 No pics, but mine looks just like jeff's


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## WalkGood

Just came in the door and I took a few quick pictures, impression to follow down the road. Strange I'm was either number 6 or 7 depending on how you read the list and I received number 14.


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## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vpivinylspinner* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Luckily I am not a five year old so I don't really care. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So far listened with the Nano and out of the Pico DAC via whiplash TWAg mini>mini. The amp really shines with the great source but sounds quite good connected to the Nano as well, maybe just a bit less bass, a little less texture._

 

Well, I'm 5 year old. Thank you very much. I just point out it does not go as the list.


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## NewMexiCat

Beautiful photos! You should be a hand model 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can't wait for my Pico Slim!


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## PiresMachine

Soooo greaaat!


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## vpivinylspinner

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I'm 5 year old. Thank you very much. I just point out it does not go as the list._

 

No offense intended, more of a joke as I know some people take that stuff seriously.


----------



## vpivinylspinner

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WalkGood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just came in the door and I took a few quick pictures, impression to follow down the road. Strange I'm was either number 6 or 7 depending on how you read the list and I received number 14.
_

 

I am pretty sure that I can now leave your fingerprints at the scene of all of my crimes. Great detail in those images.


----------



## smeggy

That thing looks tasty, want nao!


----------



## justin w.

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I'm 5 year old. Thank you very much. I just point out it does not go as the list._

 

The black and silver boxes are engraved randomly, and there were almost no orders for silver in the beginning


----------



## bcwang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *justin w.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The black and silver boxes are engraved randomly, and there were almost no orders for silver in the beginning_

 

This could pose a problem in fulfilling the first 250 shipped list correctly as the chance of them matching the ratio exactly to the first 250 pre-orders is slim, very slim. I wonder how you are going to handle it Justin.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *justin w.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The black and silver boxes are engraved randomly, and there were almost no orders for silver in the beginning_

 

I'm not complainting at all, just notice it is out of order and I'm sure you have your reason.


----------



## DaeO

Great pics WG - looking forward to your impressions


----------



## boomana

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bcwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This could pose a problem in fulfilling the first 250 shipped list correctly as the chance of them matching the ratio exactly to the first 250 pre-orders is slim, very slim. I wonder how you are going to handle it Justin._

 

Since the pre-orders were placed well in advance, I'm quite sure justin was able to count out the first 250 no matter the color. Those who placed the first 250 orders and paid in time will definitely get what they ordered, which was what was promised. As I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong, Justin), the casework is being done in batches, so there should also not be a problem with those who got lucky enough to get a spot in the first 250 due to cancellations.

 [new toy gush] I'm absolutely loving my ipod classic>twag micro lod>pico slim>jh13. It's as if I'm hearing the jh13s for the first time again[/new toy gush]


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WalkGood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just came in the door and I took a few quick pictures, impression to follow down the road. 




_

 

That thing just radiates sex appeal. I find myself wanting one with no clear reason as to why...


----------



## SoupRKnowva

So first impressions, as in hot off the press, i just listened to around an hour comparing the Slim to my protector. I didnt really know what to expect since the protector was my first amp and now the slim is my second. I did all my listening through my Audio GD Dac19Mk3 connected with a TWag RCA to mini plug cable. Overall i think that the protector is the better amp. The bass goes deeper and has more impact with the protector, and its more dynamic than the slim is. Also i think it might be slightly more transparent, but dont quote me on that yet. I spent most of mine time confirming the bass part, going back and forth between the two, the dynamics was readily apparent though. I think that the slim might as HPA said have a slight mid bass hump compared to the protector, but the bass does not go as deep, which i think leeds to the impact feel better with the protector as well.

 Now the slim is obviously not burned in, whereas the protector is, also this is just initial impressions. more to come as the night goes on hopefully and also as the slim burns in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 lets hear what everyone else is thinking


----------



## boomana

I'm not experiencing any mid bass hump.

 I'd like to hear the protector. Maybe at CanJam. Could you please describe what you mean by dynamics as I'm not sure I'm understanding your use of the word, and people all too often around here mean different things when using it.


----------



## BaboonGuy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoupRKnowva* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So first impressions, as in hot off the press, i just listened to around an hour comparing the Slim to my protector. I didnt really know what to expect since the protector was my first amp and now the slim is my second. I did all my listening through my Audio GD Dac19Mk3 connected with a TWag RCA to mini plug cable. Overall i think that the protector is the better amp. The bass goes deeper and has more impact with the protector, and its more dynamic than the slim is. Also i think it might be slightly more transparent, but dont quote me on that yet. I spent most of mine time confirming the bass part, going back and forth between the two, the dynamics was readily apparent though. I think that the slim might as HPA said have a slight mid bass hump compared to the protector, but the bass does not go as deep, which i think leeds to the impact feel better with the protector as well.

 Now the slim is obviously not burned in, whereas the protector is, also this is just initial impressions. more to come as the night goes on hopefully and also as the slim burns in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 lets hear what everyone else is thinking_

 

Wait, what is your setup here? JH-13 Balanced for Protector then switch the cable to SE for Slim?


----------



## edwardsean

Hey Soup, 

 When you have some more time to listen could you compare the soundstages. I went with the Protector because I assumed that its balanced design would make it clearly superior here. Is that your impression or is the Pico Slim just as wide, deep, and dimensional?


----------



## boomana

Although I think comparisons of the slim to other amps are valuable, I'm going to ask that a separate thread be started for that so this thread doesn't get too far off track.


----------



## WalkGood

I prefer to give myself more time with a product and take notes before I start to write impressions, but I am definitely not hearing any mid bass hump.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomana* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not experiencing any mid bass hump.

 I'd like to hear the protector. Maybe at CanJam. Could you please describe what you mean by dynamics as I'm not sure I'm understanding your use of the word, and people all too often around here mean different things when using it._

 

For dynamics im referring to like the crack of a drum. I volume matched, as closely as i could, the volume of the voice during a passage, which remained relatively constant, the volume of the snare cracking is louder on the protector than the pico slim. Though now that you mention it it could very well be a FR thing, but i doubt that.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BaboonGuy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wait, what is your setup here? JH-13 Balanced for Protector then switch the cable to SE for Slim?_

 

Im using a balanced TWag for the protector, and then i have a balanced to single ended adaptor that i left plugged into the slim so that i could just unplug from the protector straight into the slim for comparison, well and switch the source cable as well.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edwardsean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Soup, 

 When you have some more time to listen could you compare the soundstages. I went with the Protector because I assumed that its balanced design would make it clearly superior here. Is that your impression or is the Pico Slim just as wide, deep, and dimensional?_

 

I will certainly in the future, right now im trying to focus on other things, sorry bud 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WalkGood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I prefer to give myself more time with a product and take notes before I start to write impressions, but I am definitely not hearing any mid bass hump._

 

see the disclaimer at the bottom of my first post. i guess im just excited out of the gate and wanted to share something 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomana* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Although I think comparisons of the slim to other amps are valuable, I'm going to ask that a separate thread be started for that so this thread doesn't get too far off track._

 

noted, if someone starts another thread for comparisons of the two ill post there for sure. Though, and im not trying to be hostile here at all, whats the point of impressions and reviews of this new product without comparisons to other amps that people may have heard?



 Another problem ive noticed with the Slim, is that it too tiny, what i mean is that when i have the viablu connector plugged in, i can't flip the power switch from off to on, though i can flip it from on to off just fine.

 Edit: another note on the soundstaging, i dont listen to any classical music, i listen almost entirely to metal and rock, so this will not be an easy issue to pinpoint for me.


----------



## gp_hebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoupRKnowva* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_another note on the soundstaging, i dont listen to any classical music, i listen almost entirely to metal and rock, so this will not be an easy issue to pinpoint for me._

 

Just curious, what kind of rock and metal do you listen to (bands)? I find that music preferences is an often overlooked factor when reading reviews and having similar tastes with the reviewer helps understanding where he's coming from.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gp_hebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just curious, what kind of rock and metal do you listen to (bands)? I find that music preferences is an often overlooked factor when reading reviews and having similar tastes with the reviewer helps understanding where he's coming from._

 

almost every kind of metal, thrash metal(megadeth, lamb of god) death metal(job for a cowboy, death, cannible corpse), melodic death(in flames, insomnium) technical death metal(origin, The Faceless, Gorod, Fleshgod Apocalypse), alternative metal(katatonia) progressive metal(Animals as Leaders, Tool, Dream Theater, Protest the Hero), metal(avenged Sevenfold), Power metal(Dragon Force, Sonata Arctica) and even a little black metal( Behemoth, Marduk) Metalcore(All That Remains, Parkway Drive)

 I did alot of the testing at first with The Black Dahlia Murder's cd "Nocturnal" because i know that album extremely well. Also i used Lady Gaga's The Fame, because it has very clean production and great bass, and i also know it very well


----------



## Sonic 748i

The Pico Slim seems like a really good SE amplifier if the Protector is "slightly" edging it out.


----------



## smeggy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoupRKnowva* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Another problem ive noticed with the Slim, is that it too tiny, what i mean is that when i have the viablu connector plugged in, i can't flip the power switch from off to on, though i can flip it from on to off just fine.
_

 

I think that's more a problem of dumb companies making giant *mini* plugs just so they can look cool.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sonic 748i* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Pico Slim seems like a really good SE amplifier if the Protector is "slightly" edging it out._

 

indeed, its almost around a 100 dollars cheaper and a third the size, so its not like im terribly surprised that the protector is better. Though i will still wait and see what effect if any that burn in has 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smeggy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think that's more a problem of dumb companies making giant *mini* plugs just so they can look cool._

 

haha touche, maybe ill look into a smaller straight jack mini plug...


----------



## h.rav

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smeggy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think that's more a problem of dumb companies making giant *mini* plugs just so they can look cool._

 

Lol.


----------



## qusp

@SoupRKnowva, I think thats more of a frequency response thing what you describe as dynamics. I know what you mean though and with some recordings I guess it could well be dynamics. so without hearing the particular brand of throat music you are listening to its hard to say 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. who knew there was so much variety in death metal. I must admit to have trouble telling songs apart let alone genres.

 and indeed on the viablue, I would not choose that, or a few other brands of mini to use with this amp, for starters its considerably thicker than the amp, so the slim would have to be flush with the end of the ipod and the bottom will push up putting stress on the input/output.

 but to be fair, the slim and amps like it makes the choice of minis..ermm...slim


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@SoupRKnowva, I think thats more of a frequency response thing what you describe as dynamics. I know what you mean though and with some recordings I guess it could well be dynamics. so without hearing the particular brand of throat music you are listening to its hard to say 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. who knew there was so much variety in death metal. I must admit to have trouble telling songs apart let alone genres.

 and indeed on the viablue, I would not choose that, or a few other brands of mini to use with this amp, for starters its considerably thicker than the amp, so the slim would have to be flush with the end of the ipod and the bottom will push up putting stress on the input/output.

 but to be fair, the slim and amps like it makes the choice of minis..ermm...slim_

 

I actually was using lady gaga's starstruck for my dynamics test, im not sure my completely brickwalled "throat" music would do it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 do you have any suggestions on a different straight jack mini plugs to use instead of the viablu qusp?


----------



## frenchbat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoupRKnowva* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_do you have any suggestions on a different straight jack mini plugs to use instead of the viablu qusp?_

 

^ I second that. How many alternatives do you guys know of ?


----------



## gp_hebert

SoupRKnowva, I'm not sure you really understand the concept of dynamics in hi-fi audio. It refers to the amplitude of sound waves and how well audio gear portrays the whole range of possibilities from very soft to very loud, how well it executes transitions between loud and soft and how well it performs attacks. Your Lady Gaga track is not a good choice for dynamics test, as it's pretty monotonous, there's not a lot of variation in amplitude. I included a sample from Dvorak cello concerto, you can see the difference for yourself.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gp_hebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_SoupRKnowva, I'm not sure you really understand the concept of dynamics in hi-fi audio. It refers to the amplitude of sound waves and how well audio gear portrays the whole range of possibilities from very soft to very loud and also transitions between loud and soft. Your Lady Gaga track is not a good choice for dynamics test, as it's pretty monotonous, there's not a lot of variation in amplitude. I included a sample from Dvorak cello concerto, you can see the difference for yourself._

 

the part of the song i used was the very beginning, where as you can see there are plenty of dynamics 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 im guessing youve never heard the track? its also a very good test for bass.and another point, even if its brickwalled on the waveform, that wouldnt mean that parts of the music couldnt be louder than others, such as the snare being louder than the voice, which was the comparison i made. But regardless, the part of the song i used has plenty of dynamics


----------



## gp_hebert

I just listened to it and I stand behind my point, I'm not sure how you can evaluate dynamics with music like that.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gp_hebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just listened to it and I stand behind my point, I'm not sure how you can evaluate dynamics with music like that._

 

after this i think we need to stop, were pretty OT. but to answer you, im not talking about one whole part of the song being louder than another and an amps ability to portray that. I am specifically talking about her singing at the beginning, with the snare hits, those are considerably louder than her vocals are. if the vocals are the equivalent volume on both amps, and the snare hit is louder on the protector than the slim, that would lead me to believe that its dynamics are better, since that is a dynamic transition.


----------



## JiPod

Would appreciate feedback per "Pico Slim vs RSA Shadow" comparison.


----------



## The Monkey

Just finished some listening. iMod-->Pico Slim-->JH13 (and you can forget about what cables).

 This little amp is badass, and it's growing on me. Tremendous impact and absolute control with the attenuator. 

 Monkey. like. it.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoupRKnowva* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I actually was using lady gaga's starstruck for my dynamics test, im not sure my completely brickwalled "throat" music would do it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 do you have any suggestions on a different straight jack mini plugs to use instead of the viablu qusp?_

 

hehe, look i'll admit to a history of listening to some godflesh, carcass and nailbomb, but never really metal, more punk. I just cant handle the 'vocals' sweeping statement I know. my tastes are wide and varied

 yeah mini choices are not various. really for straight you have neutrik, the new oyaide looks pretty slim. hoping to get some soon. switchcraft would be borderline and thats really about it for the name brands. the phallics 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 mini comes with 2 different variants of the barrel, there is a thinner one, but the end that has the pin is still a bit large. there are probably a ferw asian brands that are not well known to us that will work. for the moment for me its modified neutrik RA and straight, on the search for the oyaide (cryoparts lists it, but wasnt in stock last time I looked) and on the hunt for others


----------



## LintHart

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JiPod* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would appreciate feedback per "Pico Slim vs RSA Shadow" comparison._

 

It's not really super fair feedback seeing as no one was had one long enough to give it some real burn in time. Perhaps in a weeks time after some solid roasting


----------



## midoo1990

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomana* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Although I think comparisons of the slim to other amps are valuable, I'm going to ask that a separate thread be started for that so this thread doesn't get too far off track._

 

Every review/impressions thread on headfi contains comparisons,even appreciation threads,I see no point in making another thread just for the two amps,it gives us the readers an idea of how it sounds against other products that we may have.I am interested to know how the slim sound in comparison to other amps and especially the protector because they are both the best portable amps in the world.


----------



## JiPod

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LintHart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's not really super fair feedback seeing as no one was had one long enough to give it some real burn in time. Perhaps in a weeks time after some solid roasting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Your point is well noted. To maintain portability, I see my only true options to be either the Shadow or the Pico Slim. I'm really looking forward to feedback/comparisons.


----------



## Kpalsm

It was between the Slim and the Shadow for me at first too but I went with the Slim since I use IEMs and couldn't pass up that massive 255 step attenuator. Also it looks gorgeous in silver 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I would be interested in a comparison too, but I'm confident I made the right choice going with the Slim. I can't really pass fair judgment since the only amps I've heard before were the E3 and E5 from FiiO 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just hope the difference in sound is worth the $$$ over the stock iPod (5.5g) headphone out


----------



## WalkGood

FYI Both the straight and right angle neutrik 3.5mm plugs work fine and allow the DAP & amp to be paired flush.


----------



## boomana

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Every review/impressions thread on headfi contains comparisons,even appreciation threads,I see no point in making another thread just for the two amps,it gives us the readers an idea of how it sounds against other products that we may have.I am interested to know how the slim sound in comparison to other amps and especially the protector because they *are both the best portable amps in the world.*_

 

I think we're lucky enough to have many excellent portable amps available to us that this time. People have different tastes and needs, which is why comparison threads are important. I also think it's nice when you can read up on just one product in a thread about that product without having to sort through pages about everything else. That's why I recommended folks start another thread, so there can be a place for both.

 Of course, I'm also not a big burn-in believer, take all first impressions, including my own, with a huge grain of salt (need to live with gear for awhile), and think most people mean well, but actually have little understanding of the language that they're using to talk about what they're hearing. That's why it's equally important that many people have a chance to say what they hear. I think it's important to know what type of music is being listened to, as well as the rest of the audio chain, when folks make definitive comments about gear. I think it's important to for folks to ask questions of the reviewer about their experience with gear and their tastes in general (lots of bass-focused people these days, which I am not, for example). The beauty of a forum is that it's the collective opinion, including the voices that challenge (civilly, please) that ends up mattering to most of us who are just reading about a product.

 I'd like to see this thread, as well as others, stay on track (talk just about the slim) if possible. I'd also like to see as many comparison threads as people see fit start up. Apparently, I'm in the minority, but a girl can dream.


----------



## Kpalsm

Agreed with boomana. I also don't see the problem with just starting another thread, people think starting threads is taboo. It's not a big deal, it's a forum, start a thread. Makes things easier to find (with the search feature, which people should use all the time with a forum this large anyway). Also, adds variety!


----------



## qusp

are amps continuing to be shipped? just wondering, just so I know whether its worth checking the shipping page periodically or best to just sit back and forget about it till number 84 rocks up at my door. by that I mean shipped once a week or whatever.

 i'm very keen to try this out with a modded nano for true portable. i'm covered for balls'n'all portable. so looking forward to my little silver beast.

 also has anyone used it with iphone 3G yet? I remember my OG pico amp was great with my iphone as Justin seems to pay good attention to shielding of his amps; so there was nothing much if any interference


----------



## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_are amps continuing to be shipped? just wondering, just so I know whether its worth checking the shipping page periodically or best to just sit back and forget about it till number 84 rocks up at my door_

 

Justin stated in the other thread that units would be shipped daily, also you will get an email with the USPS tracking number and you can check track and confirm. Although mine came before the USPS even updated the tracking number or I got the wrong number.


----------



## Kpalsm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WalkGood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_... Although mine came before the USPS even updated the tracking number ..._

 

Happens to me all the time. Sometimes I'll check a tracking page after getting an item if it doesn't update the whole time, and it will say "item delivered" or whatever it says and nothing else


----------



## cooperpwc

That is a beautiful amp. Looking at the pictures, I am amazed that people have such large hands! 

 It must be insanely small. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (Sorry to hear all the growling on the Viablue. That's a top quality plug with very clever stress relief - it's just not the right match for this particular amp.)

 Someone please post a picture of the Pico Slim in silver. I saw the original Pico is silver about 10 days ago and it was lovely.


----------



## Kpalsm

cooper, there are some silver pics in the pre-order thread. Here's a link to the post containing them


----------



## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kpalsm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Happens to me all the time. Sometimes I'll check a tracking page after getting an item if it doesn't update the whole time, and it will say "item delivered" or whatever it says and nothing else 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I've seen what you describe, but never this and still states:

  Quote:


 There is no record of this item. 
 Why Are You Receiving This Message?
 1. Event information may not be available if your item was mailed recently. Please try again later.
 2. The number was entered incorrectly. Be sure to enter all of the letters and numbers as they appear on your mailing label or receipt. 
 

Regardless, got mine and enjoying the tunes ♪ ♪ ♪


----------



## Kpalsm

Oh, never seen that after it was delivered, usually they enter SOMETHING into a computer after they deliver them. I imagine it would be mighty confusing if someone ever forgot to mark one as delivered. Maybe that's what happened with yours 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I hope I get mine soon, starting to realize just how bad the iPod hp out is compared to my home rig, hoping the Slim via LOD will help


----------



## kiwirugby

I'm not five, but if I don't get the number that I have currently.....and don't ask me what number that is.....I am going to be very unhappy. I mean really.....

 Changing subject, I really like the sorts of things that Boomana posted earlier today that would be most helpful in reviews ("I think it's important to know what type of music is being listened to, as well as the rest of the audio chain,....") and was thinking that having a list of what goes into a review as a sticky might be helpful for those of us who are review-challenged.

 I am not suggesting that we have to follow any review guidelines, but it would give us a structure to use if we chose to. I know it would help me since I am one of these: "..most people mean well, but actually have little understanding of the language that they're using to talk about what they're hearing." Also, I know there are the in-depth reviews that go into great detail about many aspects of the review process and criteria, and I don't think we need to go there either. What, at minimum, would be the list of things to include in a review.....maybe start another thread/stocky rather than use the one here? I didn't want to miss the opportunity to build on Boomana's suggestions above, so, sorry if this was too much of a highjack.


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kpalsm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_cooper, there are some silver pics in the pre-order thread. Here's a link to the post containing them_

 

Thanks! Hard to say for sure but it looks like it might be a brushed finish. The Pico that I saw and listened to at Mingos in Hong Kong (store demonstrator) was literally a mirror finish - almost a bit 'unfinished' in its look but very attractive.

 Either way, that silver slim is beautiful indeed.


----------



## Sonic 748i

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cooperpwc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks! Hard to say for sure but it looks like it might be a brushed finish. The Pico that I saw and listened to at Mingos in Hong Kong (store demonstrator) was literally a mirror finish - almost a bit 'unfinished' in its look but very attractive.

 Either way, that silver slim is beautiful indeed._

 

They do have a very elegant look to them. Nice job Pico on the design. Simple yet sleek.


----------



## skoog5600

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sonic 748i* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They do have a very elegant look to them. Nice job Pico on the design. Simple yet sleek._

 

Sonic I am curious to hear your impression of the Pico slim compared to the RX amp - I see that you have that amp and JH13s ... the exact same setup I went with instead... ended up with an IMOD, RX amp and JH13s. I was on the list for the slim # 180 something, but bailed out - didn't need two hi end amps at this point.

 Anyway looking forward to some comparisons.

 Skoog


----------



## Sonic 748i

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *skoog5600* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sonic I am curious to hear your impression of the Pico slim compared to the RX amp - I see that you have that amp and JH13s ... the exact same setup I went with instead... ended up with an IMOD, RX amp and JH13s. I was on the list for the slim # 180 something, but bailed out - didn't need two hi end amps at this point.

 Anyway looking forward to some comparisons.

 Skoog_

 

Hey skoog, I want gather more information on the Pico Slim before I consider purchasing it. But the chances are low since once I go balanced with the Protector I wouldn't want to upgrade anymore. I've already spent so much money on my audio gear and I think I coming to a stop now at my holy grail portable setup. But the Pico Slim seems like a mighty fine amplifier.


----------



## shigzeo

Well, it looks better than the mock ups... quite amazing. Love to put it next to an iBasso T3 for kicks...


----------



## midoo1990

Can anyone comment(when getting it ofcourse) on the slim with universal iem?this thread and most of the protector thread are talking about the impressions with jh13 and forget about portable headphones and universal armature iems and well not all of us have jh.


----------



## LeeMark

I was at the Boston Meet last month, I owned the shadow and listened to the TTVJ slim and the Pico slim. Both of these beat the shadow for openness, clarity and slam. I chose the TTVJ as I (my opinion) thought it was slightly better than the Pico slim in dynamics and warmth with my JH13s. Also the Pico was still not available, and I really thought all these amps were better than the Shadow. Since then I have also heard and now own the Headstage Arrow 12HE, which is comparable to the TTVJ slim and the Pico slim, IMO. Final conclusion, I think you would do well with the Pico, TTVJ or Arrow, and they are all better than the shadow.


----------



## WalkGood

LeeMark, I like your assessment and agree with you. I too enjoyed testing the TTVJ and certainly can not say anything bad about it, in fact if I had not gone for the Pico Slim for size, build quality and the pots, I would have either gone TTVJ or Arrow as well.


----------



## shigzeo

It's hard not to be attracted to the size/build on the Slim. The case, too, looks snazz. I'm beholden to my iBasso T3D, but who knows.


----------



## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shigzeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's hard not to be attracted to the size/build on the Slim. The case, too, looks snazz. I'm beholden to my iBasso T3D, but who knows._

 

While I say size and build quality is great, don’t forget the potentiometer’s dead on control makes it ideal for iem’s and customs. Honestly haven’t heard this level of control in any portable amp I’ve tried, not to say that others are bad, just way less control.


----------



## shigzeo

Yeah, but a dead-on pentometer is only good for those luckies who have the amp. I'm happy with pictures for now.


----------



## jckp919

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeeMark* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was at the Boston Meet last month, I owned the shadow and listened to the TTVJ slim and the Pico slim. Both of these beat the shadow for openness, clarity and slam. I chose the TTVJ as I (my opinion) thought it was slightly better than the Pico slim in dynamics and warmth with my JH13s. Also the Pico was still not available, and I really thought all these amps were better than the Shadow. Since then I have also heard and now own the Headstage Arrow 12HE, which is comparable to the TTVJ slim and the Pico slim, IMO. Final conclusion, I think you would do well with the Pico, TTVJ or Arrow, and they are all better than the shadow._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WalkGood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LeeMark, I like your assessment and agree with you. I too enjoyed testing the TTVJ and certainly can not say anything bad about it, in fact if I had not gone for the Pico Slim for size, build quality and the pots, I would have either gone TTVJ or Arrow as well._

 

I concur. I tested TTVJ slim and the shadow and found that TTVJ is better in terms of warmth and the soundstage of TTVJ is more revealing, to me.

 Hope that Pico Slim would do the same or even better~

 ...Still camping for the postman...


----------



## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shigzeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, but a dead-on pentometer is only good for those luckies who have the amp. I'm happy with pictures for now._

 

Did I say "dead-on" I should have said +/- 0.5dB & 255 steps


----------



## shigzeo

Where is the 'person' smiley? Got to find it somewhere... So my T3D has like 250 fewer steps - it gets the job done. Haha, but its sound, while good, pales in comparison to what I've heard from Headamp before and this slim... well, when I hear it, I'll call it.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WalkGood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've seen what you describe, but never this and still states:


 Regardless, got mine and enjoying the tunes ♪ ♪ ♪_

 

My tracking for the TWag cable still says that even though I have now had it near 3 weeks


----------



## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My tracking for the TWag cable still says that even though I have now had it near 3 weeks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

lol, they're on the ball arn't they


----------



## aegid

Well they're good in the U.S. at least 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Living nearby multiple major carrier facilities probably doesn't hurt either...


----------



## cheemo

#17 checking in. Powering up the slim exhibits an audible thump, I suggest turning the amp on without the iems/cans plugged in or else you will be startled. Powering down is less intrusive, maybe others can chime in about the thump.

 I'm pairing the slim with W3's/4G nano combo via micro twag lod and happy with the sound, to my ears the slim is not a bass heavy amp and the W3's help with the lower end, no sibilance is noted and clarity and music separation is noticeable vs. unamped.


----------



## Kpalsm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone comment(when getting it ofcourse) on the slim with universal iem?_

 

I'll be using my Slim mainly with my Shure E4c if that interests you.


----------



## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cheemo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_#17 checking in. Powering up the slim exhibits an audible thump, I suggest turning the amp on without the iems/cans plugged in or else you will be startled. Powering down is less intrusive, maybe others can chime in about the thump. ..._

 

Dam you're right, I don’t like this pop, it almost blew my eardrums out :/ I didn't notice this yesterday as I powered everything first and then put on my customs, I wanted to make sure I didn’t have anything on too loud. I don’t remember this being the case with the demo unit, but it did have a feature that would slowly bring up the volume. Hopefully Justin will chime in and update us …

 BTW this is not the case with the origional Pico.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WalkGood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dam you're right, I don’t like this pop, it almost blew my eardrums out :/ I didn't notice this yesterday as I powered everything first and then put on my customs, I wanted to make sure I didn’t have anything on too loud. I don’t remember this being the case with the demo unit, but it did have a feature that would slowly bring up the volume. Hopefully Justin will chime in and update us …

 BTW this is not the case with the origional Pico._

 

i also noticed if its on when you plug in that i get a kind of pop use then too, didnt bother me too much though.

 on another note, to compare the noise between the protector and the slim, with the protector on low gain if you max both volume controls without music playing or a source connected the noise is about the same, but in the volume range where i listen to music they are both silent. Though even with my home dac with 2.5v output i have to turn the volume on the slim past 12 oclock to get to a good volume with my jh-13's.


----------



## WalkGood

SoupRKnowva, I make all my connections before powering any amp and always make sure volumes are set low, since I had my customs already on today I noticed it. I tried both music first and amp, no difference … “pop” still there :/

 Not sure how the jh13’s sound, but with my ue11’s I start hearing the tunes around the 50th step, which is just under ¼ volume on the pots. But I like to listen a tad just under ½ volume for my customs to shine with the Slim. This is why I asked Justin what I posted here which he may have missed as it went unanswered. If given the ability I’d take out the first 40 steps that I can’t hear and add back the feature to raise the volume slowly as I don’t remember that pop on the original unit I tested (although I could be wrong).

 Edit: I do want to mention that I can live with the start up pop and it's certainly not a deal breaker but I would prefer not to have it


----------



## DaeO

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WalkGood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_SoupRKnowva, I make all my connections before powering any amp and always make sure volumes are set low, since I had my customs already on today I noticed it. I tried both music first and amp, no difference … “pop” still there :/

 Not sure how the jh13’s sound, but with my ue11’s I start hearing the tunes around the 50th step, which is just under ¼ volume on the pots. But I like to listen a tad just under ½ volume for my customs to shine with the Slim. This is why I asked Justin what I posted here which he may have missed as it went unanswered. If given the ability I’d take out the first 40 steps that I can’t hear and add back the feature to raise the volume slowly as I don’t remember that pop on the original unit I tested (although I could be wrong)._

 

Hiya WG - sorry to ask what maybe a stupid question, but how can you tell you have gone to the 50th step (I'm assuming the steps are non-audible, but do they click or something?)


----------



## skoog5600

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sonic 748i* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey skoog, I want gather more information on the Pico Slim before I consider purchasing it. But the chances are low since once I go balanced with the Protector I wouldn't want to upgrade anymore. I've already spent so much money on my audio gear and I think I coming to a stop now at my holy grail portable setup. But the Pico Slim seems like a mighty fine amplifier._

 

Sonic I kind of feel the same way - for now it is time to stop and enjoy the purchases before thinking about another amp. But I am curious to hear others true impressions of the Pico. Maybe I have regrets not hanging in there and purchasing it. Although I do like the RX amp.


----------



## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaeO* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
_ Hiya WG - sorry to ask what maybe a stupid question, but how can you tell you have gone to the 50th step (I'm assuming the steps are non-audible, but do they click or something?)_

 

  No there is no audible click or anything, sorry I should have explained. There is 255 steps according to the specs card, so I divided by 4 (which is 63.75) to approximate the steps I’m at since I'm flying at or above 1/4 when I first hear tunes and I listen below 1/2 on the pots. Thus only an approximation but the pots does have a little line on it.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

That and when there is no music playing, i can here a slight clicking noise of some kind between the steps once i get to the top quarter of the pot, but anywhere below that and it is indeed silent.

 WG, yeah i can hear it below that point, i just usually have it turned up louder than that


----------



## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoupRKnowva* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That and when there is no music playing, i can here a slight clicking noise of some kind between the steps once i get to the top quarter of the pot, but anywhere below that and it is indeed silent. …_

 

I had mentioned this in my preliminary impression and thought I was going to get attacked, I believe in the pre-order thread. Even though this is a test that I do on all amps, pause music to see when I hear anything turning the volume all the way to full slowly. I think you should be perfectly clear making this statement, there isn’t any hiss or sounds at normal listening levels and this shouldn’t bother anyone. That said, I begin to hear a hiss just past 1:30 on pots dial and it get’s louder the higher you turn the pots.


----------



## Currawong

When posting impressions, what DAP, cable and the music you're listening too would help. Also whether you listen at low, middle or loud levels.


----------



## boomana

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WalkGood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ If given the ability I’d take out the first 40 steps that I can’t hear and add back the feature to raise the volume slowly as I don’t remember that pop on the original unit I tested (although I could be wrong)._

 

What's amusing is that one of the main reasons I chose the pico slim is those first 40 or so steps. Though I usually don't listen to music that low, I sometimes need/want to, and one of the most impressive features about the slim is that I can listen to music at very low volumes with perfect balance and detail. If listening with my ipod alone or with other amps I've tried, that's not possible. I'm also one of the people who had the demo unit for a few days and didn't particularly like the feature that raised the volume slowly as it was a long delay. It didn't particularly bother me (kinda like the pop doesn't overly bother you), but I'm not upset it's gone.


----------



## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When posting impressions, what DAP, cable and the music you're listening too would help. Also whether you listen at low, middle or loud levels. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I agree, but we haven't really posted an impression about sound quality listening, we were discussing when you actually hear something and what you hear when music is on pause. BTW I've been listening to Pink Floyd, Dark Side of the Moon.


----------



## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomana* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
_ What's amusing is that one of the main reasons I chose the pico slim is those first 40 or so steps. Though I usually don't listen to music that low, I sometimes need/want to, and one of the most impressive features about the slim is that I can listen to music at very low volumes with perfect balance and detail. If listening with my ipod alone or with other amps I've tried, that's not possible. I'm also one of the people who had the demo unit for a few days and didn't particularly like the feature that raised the volume slowly as it was a long delay. It didn't particularly bother me (kinda like the pop doesn't overly bother you), but I'm not upset it's gone._

 

  If you can hear the music between 1 and 40 steps I’m truly impressed, you have excellent hearing, because I can not hear till around the 50th step using ue11's. By that I mean from zero to a little more than ¼ turn on the potentiometer knob. And I too like to listen to the music very low as well, maybe I’ll try another DAP, as I can not using iAudio 9 or a rockboxed Clip. But I can achieve this low listening level you speak of between ¼ and less than ½ on the potentiometer.

 This is the reason I asked if we could eventually be allowed access to reprogram it as in the early days of the original thread I recall Justin stating that he might allow program changes or future feature releases. The other reason was to see if adding back that feature to see if it removes the pop and if that did I would, just to eliminate the pop. As I’m not sure but I would think it can not be good for these sensitive armatures.


----------



## boomana

So, I just tested it out. I definitely can't hear anything resembling music in the first how many every steps, so you're right, but it doesn't bother me at all.


----------



## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomana* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, I just tested it out. I definitely can't hear anything resembling music in the first how many every steps, so you're right, but it doesn't bother me at all._

 

boomana, It doesn't bother me either but if we could change it, I would. Don't get me wrong, the amp works great with iem's and I like it or I wouldn't have bought it after testing it at our meet.


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WalkGood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No there is no audible click or anything, sorry I should have explained. There is 255 steps according to the specs card, so I divided by 4 (which is 63.75) to approximate the steps I’m at since I'm flying below 1/4 when I first hear tunes and I listen below 1/2 on the pots. Thus only an approximation but the pots does have a little line on it._

 

I'm confused now. (Or even more confused than usual...) The feature that returns the volume to previous level is gone but the volume control has an indcator line. Does it not follow that when you turn the Pico Slim on, the volume returns to the point indicated by that volume control indicator line?


----------



## qusp

hmmm, wasnt expecting a turn on thump 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and not a small one by the sounds of it either. I dislike this as generally leave my JH13 plugged in. guess i'll have to form a new habit.


----------



## Jalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hmmm, wasnt expecting a turn on thump 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and not a small one by the sounds of it either. I dislike this as generally leave my JH13 plugged in. guess i'll have to form a new habit._

 

If you turn the volume pot down before power on, will that solve the problem? Or it doesn't matter what position the volumn pot is at, any power will give you that turn on thump?


----------



## cheemo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you turn the volume pot down before power on, will that solve the problem? Or it doesn't matter what position the volume pot is at, any power will give you that turn on thump?_

 

Even at 0 setting on the vol. pot, the pop/thump is very noticeable. I would be concerned with the tiny armatures in iems/customs suffering possible damage from the sudden power surge. Whenever I turn on the amp, I have been unplugging my iems/hp's FWIW.


----------



## cheemo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cooperpwc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm confused now. (Or even more confused than usual...) The feature that returns the volume to previous level is gone but the volume control has an indcator line. Does it not follow that when you turn the Pico Slim on, the volume returns to the point indicated by that volume control indicator line?_

 

The volume level will remain at the level it was left at prior to shutting the amp off.


----------



## Jalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cheemo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Even at 0 setting on the vol. pot, the pop/thump is very noticeable. I would be concerned with the tiny armatures in iems/customs suffering possible damage from the sudden power surge. Whenever I turn on the amp, I have been unplugging my iems/hp's FWIW._

 

But then plugging and unplugging a headphone while the amp is on is not suppose to be wise either.


----------



## WalkGood

Plugging and unplugging your iem's while the amp is on results in a similar pop and I would think possibly worse for your armatures than already having them plugged in at start up.


----------



## boomana

I simply turn the amp on before I put my iems in my ears. It's a pretty easy solution.


----------



## JiPod

Don't hurt me now. A slightly off topic question.

 Between the Slims (Pico/TTVJ), which of the two is better prepped to drive serious cans the likes of the HD600, nada, nada, nada?


----------



## LintHart

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JiPod* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't hurt me now. A slightly off topic question.

 Between the Slims (Pico/TTVJ), which of the two is better prepped to drive serious cans the likes of the HD600, nada, nada, nada?_

 

AFAIK, the Pico Slim was not designed to drive full size cans. That's not to say it can't but correct me if I'm wrong please guys but it's aimed at IEMs


----------



## gsawdy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomana* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I simply turn the amp on before I put my items in my ears. It's a pretty easy solution._

 

for your ear drums, but doesn't solve the problem for the armatures in the IEM. I must add that I ordered the Pico Slim based in large part on the reputation of Justin's other products and I'm disappointed with this thump--sure didn't expect he'd release a product with this issue.

 Can anyone measure the frequency of this thump? Does it have high frequency content and are high frequency armatures more sensitive like tweeters?

 For those who had access to samples did this problem exist or was it masked by the slow ramp up of the volume? I understand that the volume increase could be annoyingly slow but as I understand digital volume control that should be a software problem and solved by new software, i.e., increase the speed of the ramp up.

 Hope to hear from others on a possible fix, George


----------



## qusp

NVM, i'm hoping for a solution too. at least with those caps on the output its unlikely to have a DC component


----------



## shigzeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hmmm, wasnt expecting a *turn-on thump*





 and not a small one_

 

That's what she said?


----------



## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomana* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I simply turn the amp on before I put my iems in my ears. It's a pretty easy solution._

 

I agree with your method and that is what I have been doing. I made the statement yesterday that it didn’t bother me, but let me qualify this statement. If this thump or pop is bad for my armatures then yes it does bother me and I too would like a solution, so I fully agree with gsawdy’s statement (post # 160). I’ve been very happy with my standard Pico/DAC and this is not an issue with it, I can have my customs in my ears turn it on and the power up sound is negligible. That said, I can not have my customs on during the power up with the Slim ...


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JiPod* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't hurt me now. A slightly off topic question.

 Between the Slims (Pico/TTVJ), which of the two is better prepped to drive serious cans the likes of the HD600, nada, nada, nada?_

 

For a full size headphone solution, the original Pico would be a better solution, it has both low and high gain, it drives my hd650’s (300 ohms) fine …


----------



## gp_hebert

Just got mine, I love the form factor and the look of it! Super precise volume control, probably the most quiet portable amp I've heard and no noise when changing volume (unless you go to ear bleeding levels). Very pleased so far.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shigzeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's what she said?_

 

yer momma? she did yes


----------



## boomana

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JiPod* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Between the Slims (Pico/TTVJ), which of the two is better prepped to drive serious cans the likes of the HD600, nada, nada, nada?_

 

None.


----------



## YtseJamer

Just got mine too, serial #0026


----------



## JiPod

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LintHart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_AFAIK, the Pico Slim was not designed to drive full size cans. That's not to say it can't but correct me if I'm wrong please guys but it's aimed at IEMs_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WalkGood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For a full size headphone solution, the original Pico would be a better solution, it has both low and high gain, it drives my hd650’s (300 ohms) fine …_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomana* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_None._

 

I guess it's safe to assume that the Pico Slim and TTVJ Slim (and RSA Shadow) are more or less for IEMs.


----------



## MASantos

The Pico Slim doesn't use a digital volume control, but rather a digital control chip, which controls analog attenuation. You can read Justin's explanation on the Pico pre order thread.(1st post)

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gsawdy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 For those who had access to samples did this problem exist or was it masked by the slow ramp up of the volume? I understand that the volume increase could be annoyingly slow but as I understand digital volume control that should be a software problem and solved by new software, i.e., increase the speed of the ramp up.

 Hope to hear from others on a possible fix, George_


----------



## Fantoon

The Headstage Arrow HE has been on topic for it's size, price and owners seems to be very pleased by it's performance. Would love some impressions, Headstage vs Pico Slim.

 Thank you


----------



## gsawdy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MASantos* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Pico Slim doesn't use a digital volume control, but rather a digital control chip, which controls analog attenuation. You can read Justin's explanation on the Pico pre order thread.(1st post)_

 

Well I'm not an EE and so I'll agree your statement is better. BTW if you would like to read more on this technology here are readily accessible links:

Jeff Rowland Design Group - Digital Volume Controls

http://www.audiodesignguide.com/Volume/index.html

 Best wishes, George


----------



## TheWuss

for some perverted reason, i keep checking this thread, hoping that there's some meaningful impressions... 12 pages in, only "new toy gushing" so far.
 hahahahaha. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 only kidding, guys. it's been fun reading so far. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i'm jealous of your pico slims. so i just had to say something smarmy.


----------



## raccoon

Mine just arrived today. It's a lot smaller than I expected. It makes my iPhone look massive. The volume control is very precise and there's no hiss even during quiet piano passages which is exactly what I was looking for. 

 And I'm glad I went with silver


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheWuss* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_for some perverted reason, i keep checking this thread, hoping that there's some meaningful impressions... 12 pages in, only "new toy gushing" so far.
 hahahahaha. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 only kidding, guys. it's been fun reading so far. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i'm jealous of your pico slims. so i just had to say something smarmy._

 

i liked to think my impressions were short and to the point 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 they were back there a ways though.


----------



## TheWuss

Yep, SoupRKnowva, your impressions were fun to read.
 considering you were able to give a snapshot of the protector v. pico slim.
 thanks!


----------



## nonsupremous

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoupRKnowva* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i liked to think my impressions were short and to the point 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 they were back there a ways though._

 

Where can you buy this?

 Also, does anyone know how this stacks up against the E7? Even though the E7 is only out there in prototype at the moment.


----------



## boomana

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheWuss* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_for some perverted reason, i keep checking this thread, hoping that there's some meaningful impressions... 12 pages in, only "new toy gushing" so far.
 hahahahaha. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm from the camp that believes there can certainly be informative first impressions, but meaningful impressions come only after living with gear for awhile....and I'm not talking about burn in.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomana* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm from the camp that believes there can certainly be informative first impressions, but meaningful impressions come only after living with gear for awhile....and I'm not talking about burn in._

 

im with ya there, ive been listening to the slim exclusively since that first day, will continue to do so for several weeks. Then ill write up some more comparisons/impressions for everyone


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fantoon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Headstage Arrow HE has been on topic for it's form size, price and owners seems to be very pleased by it's performance. Would love some impressions, Headstage vs Pico Slim.

 Thank you_

 

A BIG [size=x-large]x2[/size]


----------



## DaeO

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A BIG [size=x-large]x2[/size]_

 

Is there anyone who has/will have both?


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaeO* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there anyone who has/will have both?_

 

I had the Arrow for around a week but don't know when will I receive the Pico Slim.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had the Arrow for around a week but don't know when will I receive the Pico Slim._

 


 Tough to do an A/B comparison from memory (but if it 's a lot like the original Pico then I'm happy with the Arrow). I'm sure it will be a great amp.


----------



## oogabooga

My Pico Slim just arrived today, after a short trip to the Post Office to pay the taxes. A few initial, *subjective* impressions, out of my iPhone 3GS/Oyaide LOD (thanks Currawong), driving SE530s:

*Volume Control:*
 The volume control is excellent. The volume pot goes from a 7h30 position to a 16h30 position. I can just barely hear music at the 8h30 position, and the lowest I'd ever actually see myself listening is at the 9h00 position. The loudest I would go to is about 14h00 on the Slim dial, anything else is really too loud for my tastes. I find it very easy to find the level I want, and I do not hear any "clicking" when turning the dial, except possibly at the very lowest end of the dial, below 8h30 where I can't hear the tunes. 

 For those who have the iPhone and know that the lowest volume setting there is not really that low, I'll give some perspective by saying that's at about 12h00 on the Pico Slim dial. 

_ A side note: driving PortaPros
 I can first hear music at 10h00, consider 12h00 to be a "low" volume, and near 16h00 a "high" volume._

*Turn-on/turn-off noises:*
 Yes, I can also confirm the "thump" when turning on the Slim with IEMs plugged in. I'd describe it as a muted pop. Turning the Slim off gives a very short sound that starts high in frequency then goes down. I'm no engineer, but I want to say it's the sound of a capacitor discharging (those in the know, please feel free to correct me on that). Plugging/unplugging my IEMs into an already powered up Slim gives no pop or thump that I can hear. 

*Hiss: *
 My experience tells me the SE530s are very sensitive to hiss, moreso than the TF10's I used to own. I can hear a very faint hiss at the 13h00 position on the Slim, which is roughly my normal listening volume. Turning the pot up to 14h00 (the upper limit of what I'll listen to) gives a hiss roughly equal to my 3GS. 15h00 or higher seems to give a rather high amount of hiss, but I don't care about that since music at that level would deafen me. All of these observations are identical if the Slim is connected to the iPhone on pause, or with nothing plugged into its input.

 To compare to the Pico, I distinctly recall NOT hearing any hiss on the low gain setting at either low or high listening volumes.

EDIT (Apr 23, 01h28): To clarify, the above observations are when no music is playing, and I am actively listening for hiss. After having listened to the Slim with music playing for a few more hours, I feel ready to add the following: At lower volumes, there's NO hiss. At medium volumes, I don't notice any hiss during music playback. At high volumes, the recorded hiss in most of my music (which no amp is going to get rid of) is *much* louder than the hiss inherent in the Slim, so I think it's fair to say that I don't notice any added hiss during music playback. (Low, medium, and high are my subjective definitions, of course).

_ A side note: driving PortaPros
 No hiss here!_

*Preliminary Musical Thoughts:*
 I can only make the broadest of comments based on an hour of listening, so I'm only going to share the first thing that hit me with the Slim: the bass is greatly improved over the iPhone's HP out. It's better defined (i.e. not boomy) and has more slam. There are other sonic differences that I'm still trying to put into words, but I am reminded of the fullsize Pico in that I don't hear any coloration and the music just sounds "damn good".

 PS: I did try the Parasound 1500 as the DAC, which I think makes for the largest DAC-to-amp size ratio evar...


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oogabooga* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Pico Slim just arrived today, after a short trip to the Post Office to pay the taxes. A few initial, *subjective* impressions, out of my iPhone 3GS/Oyaide LOD (thanks Currawong), driving SE530s:

*Volume Control:*
 The volume control is excellent. The volume pot goes from a 730h position to a 16h30 position. I can just barely hear music at the 830h position, and the lowest I'd ever actually see myself listening is at the 900h position. The loudest I would go to is about 1400h on the Slim dial, anything else is really too loud for my tastes. I find it very easy to find the level I want, and I do not hear any "clicking" when turning the dial, except possibly at the very lowest end of the dial, below 8h30 where I can't hear the tunes. 

 For those who have the iPhone and know that the lowest volume setting there is not really that low, I'll give some perspective by saying that's at about 1200h on the Pico Slim dial. 

 A side note: driving PortaPros
 I can first hear music at 1000h, consider 1200h to be a "low" volume, and near 1600h a "high" volume.

*Turn-on/turn-off noises:*
 Yes, I can also confirm the "thump" when turning on the Slim with IEMs plugged in. I'd describe it as a muted pop. Turning the Slim off gives a very short sound that starts high in frequency then goes down. I'm no engineer, but I want to say it's the sound of a capacitor discharging (those in the know, please feel free to correct me on that). Plugging/unplugging my IEMs into an already powered up Slim gives no pop or thump that I can hear. 

*Hiss: *
 My experience tells me the SE530s are very sensitive to hiss, moreso than the TF10's I used to own. I can hear a very faint hiss at the 1300h position on the Slim, which is roughly my normal listening volume. Turning the pot up to 1400h (the upper limit of what I'll listen to) gives a hiss roughly equal to my 3GS. 1500h or higher seems to give a rather high amount of hiss, but I don't care about that since music at that level would deafen me. All of these observations are identical if the Slim is connected to the iPhone on pause, or with nothing plugged into its input.

 To compare to the Pico, I distinctly recall NOT hearing any hiss on the low gain setting at either low or high listening volumes.

 A side note: driving PortaPros
 No hiss here!

*Preliminary Musical Thoughts:*
 I can only make the broadest of comments based on an hour of listening, so I'm only going to share the first thing that hit me with the Slim: the bass is greatly improved over the iPhone's HP out. It's better defined (i.e. not boomy) and has more slam. There are other sonic differences that I'm still trying to put into words, but I am reminded of the fullsize Pico in that I don't hear any coloration and the music just sounds "damn good".

 PS: I did try the Parasound 1500 as the DAC, which I think makes for the largest DAC-to-amp size ratio evar..._

 

Hey, good to hear yours arrived....maybe we can get together for an A/B sometime


----------



## itsborken

Quote:


 PS: I did try the Parasound 1500 as the DAC, which I think makes for the largest DAC-to-amp size ratio evar... 
 

Yeah, a bit of overkill there.

 The hiss on SE530s has me a bit concerned as that was what I was planning on using with this. I don't recall it hissing on the Pico either.


----------



## justin w.

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *itsborken* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, a bit of overkill there.

 The hiss on SE530s has me a bit concerned as that was what I was planning on using with this. I don't recall it hissing on the Pico either._

 

Noise level will be higher than the regular Pico. All digital volume controls add noise. But it's insignificant and well worth the advantages. With ES3X, my most sensitive IEM, I can't hear anything until it's past the level I would ever want to listen at.


----------



## shigzeo

My iBasso T3D also hisses, but it is insignificant to some portable players which people seem to like. If the Pico Slim hisses even less and does a good job with sound - good on it!


----------



## jckp919

new portable family member...


----------



## oogabooga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, good to hear yours arrived....maybe we can get together for an A/B sometime 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It'll be at the next local meetup for sure!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *itsborken* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The hiss on SE530s has me a bit concerned as that was what I was planning on using with this._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *justin w.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Noise level will be higher than the regular Pico. All digital volume controls add noise. But it's insignificant and well worth the advantages._

 

itsborken: I wouldn't be at all concerned. I really did mean "faint" when I typed it. At lower volumes, where hiss has the potential to be the most annoying, there's NONE. At medium volumes, it's so faint that you only hear it when there's no music playing and you're trying to hear the hiss. At high volumes, the recorded hiss in most of my music (which no amp is going to get rid of) is much louder than the hiss inherent in the Slim. (Low, medium, and high are my subjective definitions, of course). 

 Justin is right, the digital volume control is well worth the advantages. It gives perfect control over the volume of my IEMs. I can listen more quietly than ever before, I can listen so loud that my ears bleed before the amp distorts*, and I can always find the perfect volume I want in between. The channel balancing is ALWAYS PERFECT - every other amp I've tried has failed to balance L/R at low volumes with the SE530s. I want this level of volume control on all my gear!

 *Note: distortion levels not actually tested due to risk of blood destroying my IEMs


----------



## bcwang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oogabooga* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Hiss: *
 My experience tells me the SE530s are very sensitive to hiss, moreso than the TF10's I used to own. I can hear a very faint hiss at the 13h00 position on the Slim, which is roughly my normal listening volume. Turning the pot up to 14h00 (the upper limit of what I'll listen to) gives a hiss roughly equal to my 3GS. 15h00 or higher seems to give a rather high amount of hiss, but I don't care about that since music at that level would deafen me. All of these observations are identical if the Slim is connected to the iPhone on pause, or with nothing plugged into its input._

 

Uh oh, I'm worried now. I am extremely susceptible to hiss in amps. I can hear hiss in almost all amps, sometimes quite loudly too. The saving grace might be the hiss on this amp seems to be related to volume level. Since I listen quite low, the hiss on other amps would drive me crazy. Hopefully this amp is completely silent at my listening volume otherwise it would make low volume listening pointless.


----------



## qusp

well there seems to be a different level of pop reported here (perhaps it was picked up and 'edited' by Justin?? and its much more like what I would expect. that sort of pop is unavoidable pretty much unless you have an actively driven ground channel. 

 still no update on shipping. I would hope some amps shipped this week. 30 shipped on the first day and I havent received a shipping notification at ..84?? I cant remember something around that; a week later


----------



## junien

that means at no. 300-400 we can pretty much forget about receiving this amp by september? XD i just hope no new competing models from other manufacturers come out in the meantime. models able to compete with the slim, i mean. probably at a lower price point but a better sound quality? doubtful. (from what i've read thus far)


----------



## charlie0904

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well there seems to be a different level of pop reported here (perhaps it was picked up and 'edited' by Justin?? and its much more like what I would expect. that sort of pop is unavoidable pretty much unless you have an actively driven ground channel. 

 still no update on shipping. I would hope some amps shipped this week. 30 shipped on the first day and I havent received a shipping notification at ..84?? I cant remember something around that; a week later 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

maybe tomorrow. I am hoping to see a shipping notification for me too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 its painful.


----------



## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_still no update on shipping. I would hope some amps shipped this week. 30 shipped on the first day and I havent received a shipping notification at ..84?? I cant remember something around that; a week later 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Another 50 are shipping real soon now per the other thread. Keep in mind the 30 that shipped 'first day' did have a few days of assembly, (charge?), test, and packaging work before they did ship.


----------



## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oogabooga* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_itsborken: I wouldn't be at all concerned. I really did mean "faint" when I typed it. At lower volumes, where hiss has the potential to be the most annoying, there's NONE. At medium volumes, it's so faint that you only hear it when there's no music playing and you're trying to hear the hiss. At high volumes, the recorded hiss in most of my music (which no amp is going to get rid of) is much louder than the hiss inherent in the Slim. (Low, medium, and high are my subjective definitions, of course)._

 

Cool, thanks for the clarification, that put my mind at ease.


----------



## WalkGood

With the Pico Slim, I said earlier in the thread at normal listening levels with or without music play back there is not an audible hiss at all. But a bit past half volume (1:30 and on) with no music play back you begin to hear a faint hiss that becomes louder as you turn up the volume. Also I do not hear any clicking on a low volume as oogabooga states, but I do agree with the rest of his assessment as it’s similar to my earlier one. Hissing is not an issue at all with the original pico, I find it great with no hissing noises until the dial is maxed without music play back. I can not comment on the se530’s as I sold mine over a year ago, but with my ue11’s I’m happy with the performance of the Slim so far.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oogabooga* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ … 

 I find it very easy to find the level I want, and I do not hear any "clicking" when turning the dial, *except possibly at the very lowest end of the dial, below 8h30 where I can't hear the tunes*. … …_


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Alright, so my slim just died for the first time since i received it on monday. I charged it right out of the box till the light went off so it was at a full charge before i started, and while i didnt keep track of the time i would guestimate it got around 60 hours out of it, a mixture of being fed from my dac19 and from my iPod classic, being run into my jh-13's.

 Also of note, i just realized when i took the slim out of its case, that it gets noticeably warm to the touch when its being used, a phenomenon that i dont encounter with the protector.


----------



## oogabooga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoupRKnowva* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also of note, i just realized when i took the slim out of its case, that it gets noticeably warm to the touch when its being used, a phenomenon that i dont encounter with the protector._

 

Out of curiousity, do you also keep the protector in a case? I *think* the Slim's case is real leather - a decent heat insulator.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oogabooga* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Out of curiousity, do you also keep the protector in a case? I *think* the Slim's case is real leather - a decent heat insulator._

 

i hadnt even thought of that, but i honestly dont think that caused it. It might have made it slightly warmer, but the protector is actually cool to the touch at all times. Though ill run the slim our of the case for a couple hours after its done charging again to see if it makes a difference

 Edit: i guess i didnt answer the question lol but no i dont keep the protector in a case of any kind


----------



## LintHart

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oogabooga* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Out of curiousity, do you also keep the protector in a case? I *think* the Slim's case is real leather - a decent heat insulator._

 

I would most certainly hope that the case is real leather considering how much we're paying for the package


----------



## OPTiK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LintHart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would most certainly hope that the case is real leather considering how much we're paying for the package_

 

100% leather is pretty expensive, it's prob a pleather variant like you see in non luxury cars with the "leather" option. Though if it was 100% leather that would be impressive.


----------



## DaeO

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OPTiK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_100% leather is pretty expensive, it's prob a pleather variant like you see in non luxury cars with the "leather" option. Though if it was 100% leather that would be impressive._

 

They are leather according to Justin

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f38/he...ml#post6272275


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


 Also of note, i just realized when i took the slim out of its case, that it gets noticeably warm to the touch when its being used 
 

I noticed the same with the Pico Amp/Dac. I thought it was due to the size/function ratio but haven't noticed it with other ultra-portables (although they have been amps w/o a DAC)


----------



## csh08

#22 arrived two days ago. Very impressed with the sound. Using it with my SE530's and I cannot hear any hiss.


----------



## raccoon

I used it at work for the majority of the day. The amount of control you have over the volume is very impressive. I don't feel like I have to crank up the volume either to get a full sound since even at very low levels this amp sounds great. Definitely dead silent as well at the volumes I listen to.


----------



## neosoul

I know this is off topic, but can someone tell me which amp is smaller between the T3 & Pico Slim.


----------



## WalkGood

Posted some new pictures of my new mini bridge IC that I made today for Pico Slim in the DIY cable thread here and new whole rig pictures over there.


----------



## DaeO

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WalkGood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Posted some new pictures of my new mini bridge IC that I made today for Pico Slim in the DIY cable thread here and new whole rig pictures over there._

 

Great work WG - quite the handyman 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Doesn't that velcro strap get in the way a bit? Have you tried the tesa powerstrips? Seeing as though you are the 'post-a-link-king',  here  you go


----------



## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaeO* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great work WG - quite the handyman 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Doesn't that velcro strap get in the way a bit? Have you tried the tesa powerstrips? Seeing as though you are the 'post-a-link-king',  here  you go 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks ... so far the velcro hasn't got in the way, but I like your powerstrip idea, I might give it a go once the strap wears out, thanks.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *marvelousmarvyd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know this is off topic, but can someone tell me which amp is smaller between the T3 & Pico Slim._

 

I think the slim is slimmer and narrower, but might be a tad longer than the T3. You'd have to check the measurements for both.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *itsborken* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Another 50 are shipping real soon now per the other thread. Keep in mind the 30 that shipped 'first day' did have a few days of assembly, (charge?), test, and packaging work before they did ship._

 

yeah I posted as much in the other thread, just abbreviated it in this one. and also like I said there. I think i'm going to stop reading this thread till mine arrives and ignore anything but actual notification of shipping as hearsay. not meaning anything by that, I do understand things come up and cause delays.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *marvelousmarvyd* 
_I know this is off topic, but can someone tell me which amp is smaller between the T3 & Pico Slim_

 

The T3 thickness and width is similar to the Slim, but the Slim is a little longer. The lighting in the photo with the demo Slim makes the T3 look slightly thicker, but it's pretty close.


----------



## neosoul

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The T3 thickness and width is similar to the Slim, but the Slim is a little longer. The lighting in the photo with the demo Slim makes the T3 look slightly thicker, but it's pretty close.




_

 

Thanks for the reply and picture its greatly appreciated, I have a chance to acquire another Ipod mini and was looking at one of these amps to pair with it for an ultra portable rig.


----------



## midoo1990

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *marvelousmarvyd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the reply and picture its greatly appreciated, I have a chance to acquire another Ipod mini and was looking at one of these amps to pair with it for an ultra portable rig._

 

you really dont have to quote the whole picture again..


----------



## qusp

yes its getting out of hand this pic quoting, often people will do it directly afterwards and with multiple pics. I really dont understand 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 its rife in the portable rigs gallery too


----------



## Navea

I was number 2 on the order list and i got number 6. Dosent matter for me, just letting you know that you probably wont get your number on the order list. 
 As for the sound, for now this is my favorite portable amp for my JH13/16. It really does something special to my iems. Just love it


----------



## dfkt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Navea* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was number 2 on the order list and i got number 6._

 

Number 6 >>> Number 2.


----------



## BaboonGuy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Number 6 >>> Number 2._

 

But what about Number 1?


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes its getting out of hand this pic quoting, often people will do it directly afterwards and with multiple pics. I really dont understand 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 its rife in the portable rigs gallery too_

 

Maybe someone with seniority could suggest that the "quote" button should not include graphics?


----------



## bdr529

It's just proper netiquette. The quote button shouldn't change, it is up to the quoter to make the final call. I am guessing this is just the first forum for a lot of people.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


 I am guessing this is just the first forum for a lot of people. 
 

You are likely correct. 'nuff said.


----------



## Fizban

Hey, how does the Pico SLIM compare to the Pico original amp?


----------



## sinofsins

for those with both jh13 and jh16... which one do you think sounded better from the pico slim?


----------



## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fizban* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, how does the Pico SLIM compare to the Pico original amp?_

 

I have both but have not directly compared them yet, I'll include this when I finish my opinion or mini review. I'll try this comming weekend as I've been focusing on the Slim for the last 2 weeks. Probably won't post my updated opinions for a few more weeks ...


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe someone with seniority could suggest that the "quote" button should not include graphics?_

 

why?? all it takes is a bit of thought and consideration on behalf of the user, quoting images is perfectly fine with me if its called for; all it takes to break the tag is to delete one character in the img tag. it even includes the name of the pic so people still even know what pic you are quoting, if its named appropriately


----------



## lisnalee

#32 finally made it through the volcanic ash cloud and landed today. Its even smaller in real life and is literally dwarfed by my monstrous looking HifiMAN.












 The digital volume control is perfect and for the first time i can truly enjoy the HifiMAN without any hiss and have plenty of volume control to boot. The switch on (& off) thump is pretty severe and definitely something you will only do the once with a set of customs in your ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. The LW start picking up music around the 8 o’clock position but for my normal listening its closer to 11 or 12. 

 Can anyone else hear the steps, when moving the volume pot with no music playing?


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lisnalee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone else hear the steps, when moving the volume pot with no music playing?_

 

yeah, with no music playing i can hear the steps starting around 10 or 11 oclock on the dial, and weirdly, its louder if im turning it counter clockwise then when im turning it clockwise lol, anyone else notice that?


----------



## Oomingmak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Navea* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was number 2 on the order list and i got number 6. Dosent matter for me, just letting you know that you probably wont get your number on the order list. 
 As for the sound, for now this is my favorite portable amp for my JH13/16. It really does something special to my iems. Just love it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Something special, such as?


----------



## Fizban

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WalkGood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have both but have not directly compared them yet, I'll include this when I finish my opinion or mini review. I'll try this comming weekend as I've been focusing on the Slim for the last 2 weeks. Probably won't post my updated opinions for a few more weeks ..._

 

Aw thanks a bunch!
 You're cool!

 *grabs popcorn and waits*


----------



## Fizban

Hahaha lisnalee your pico slim looks like a roach stuck to the underside of a boot

 but an AMAZING show of size difference!


----------



## lisnalee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fizban* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hahaha lisnalee your pico slim looks like a roach stuck to the underside of a boot

 but an AMAZING show of size difference!_

 

LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it maybe small but its perfectly formed right down to the the dinky volume knob which is a joy to use. I done a few quick A/B tests comparing the stock amp module of the HifiMAN with it last night and although similar in a lot a of ways the slim definitely has moar bass impact. I'm on the fence whether to go JH13 or 16 with this but if the limited reviews so far are anything to go by, the 16 may have too much bottom end for me.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lisnalee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it maybe small but its perfectly formed right down to the the dinky volume knob which is a joy to use. I done a few quick A/B tests comparing the stock amp module of the HifiMAN with it last night and although similar in a lot a of ways the slim definitely has moar bass impact. I'm on the fence whether to go JH13 or 16 with this but if the limited reviews so far are anything to go by, the 16 may have too much bottom end for me._

 

My JH13Pro have a lot of bass with Pico Slim, and I don't know that I would want to use JH16Pro on it. It improves the bass on my ES3X as well, while still somehow keeping the UE11Pro bass under control. So, with that in mind the JH16Pro might still be fine with it. The nice thing is that with just about all the amps I've tried I never feel the JH13Pro lack bass, so it's a pretty safe purchase.


----------



## Fizban

Any idea how different is it from the original pico amp?


----------



## Iron_Dreamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lisnalee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm on the fence whether to go JH13 or 16 with this but if the limited reviews so far are anything to go by, the 16 may have too much bottom end for me._

 

It depends on what you like. The JH13 has only a tiny bump above neutral in the very lowest bass, to help replace the lack of physically transmitted bass that you would experience listening to speakers or live sound. The extra bass does not interfere with or mask the rest of the spectrum, and is restricted to below 50Hz or so.

 The JH13 could only really be considered "lacking" bass by someone who wants much more bass than neutral, and isn't really interested in neutrality/accuracy.

 I have no experience with the JH16.


----------



## kiwirugby

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The nice thing is that with just about all the amps I've tried I never feel the JH13Pro lack bass, so it's a pretty safe purchase._

 

This is a really good point. I would agree that with many different amps, the JH13s have beaucoup bass. For me this is true with RSA Mustang and Shadow, Xin SuperMicro and SuperMacro, even a Minibox-E+. My old Grado RA1 on the other hand, not so much...but better than most cans I have!


----------



## animalsrush

Just placed an order for the Pico Slim. I have a Sony X and will buy Alo Audio LOD after i get my amp. Hope it takes it to another level as Sony X is great out of the box. Now i guess i have to wait. This will be my second head amp purchase .. i had AE-1 with my Rio Karma .. 

 PC


----------



## oogabooga

Another update on my Slim - after a week of using it with my iPhone 3GS, I've noticed that the EMI rejection on my Slim is not so great when the iPhone is in EDGE mode - I hear a lot of the "GSM buzz", and it can get quite loud! Oddly enough, when the iPhone is in 3G mode, I only hear the buzz once in a while. Still not sure if I want to use the Slim (or any amp) on the go with my 3GS - I'm too dependent on the inline controls/microphone!


 At my desk I've used the Slim with my Gamma2, and from a musical standpoint I'm really digging the sound out of my Slim/SE530s. Bass impact is awesome, and I'd be hard pressed to tell a difference from a Pico (it's been over two months since I had the Pico, so I'm going from memory). Of course the volume control puts the original Pico to shame on IEMs.


----------



## belac

Just coming on here to give an update on my Slim, oh wait I haven't got mine yet!!! Got a shipping notice on Tuesday after a week of saying it was going to ship but didn't. It looks like the trick most people play, send you a tracking number just to silence the critics and then ship when you get good and ready!!! After saying all that it looks like it will be a nice amp when it arrives!!!


----------



## boomana

I've never known Justin to operate that way, and I believe he sends within 24 hours of supplying the tracking numbers.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomana* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've never known Justin to operate that way, and I believe he sends within 24 hours of supplying the tracking numbers._

 

Yeah, I wouldn't think he would do that either. I got tracking info on Tuesday and haven't received the amp either, and last I checked yesterday tracking wasn't showing any info. But, at least I got the TTVJ loaner luxman P1u today, so I'll just spend the weekend testing that out instead while I wait for the Slim to arrive.


----------



## jc9394

Same here, got the notice on Tuesday but still no amp.


----------



## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oogabooga* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ ... Of course the volume control puts the original Pico to shame on IEMs._

 

I think you are off base with that statement, I use both and the original Pico is still a great performer with my ue11s. I honestly don’t believe it’s an easy task to note differences between the two. If you are strictly speaking of the potentiometer, sure the Slim can go down to a very quiet level and the steps are very small but the original Pico performs well at low levels, it just doesn’t have small steps. As far as any channel imbalance it’s very hard to tell by listening back & forth, if not impossible and you state “it's been over two months since I had the Pico, so I'm going from memory,” again, I think you’re wrong, the original Pico is still a very solid performer.


----------



## Aura

My slim arrived on thursday but i didn't get an opportunity to pick it up until last night. Figured I'd use grey scale for something a little different - 

















 Don't have my Shure SE530's quite yet, but I did listen for a bit with my AKG K81DJ's. 

 First impressions - it's really damn small. And it improved the AKG in virtually all respects. We have success. Props Justin 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Nebby

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *belac* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just coming on here to give an update on my Slim, oh wait I haven't got mine yet!!! Got a shipping notice on Tuesday after a week of saying it was going to ship but didn't. It looks like the trick most people play, send you a tracking number just to silence the critics and then ship when you get good and ready!!! After saying all that it looks like it will be a nice amp when it arrives!!!_

 

There's a reason why USPS' service is called delivery confirmation. I would say that the MAJORITY of the time that the USPS tracking is updated is to show that it's been delivered. You may or may not get intermediate status updates. 

 It's a pretty hefty accusation to say that Justin has sent you a tracking number just to silence critics and hasn't actually shipped. I know you're frustrated at the wait, but do give some thought to what you're accusing an upstanding vendor of doing.


----------



## shigzeo

Jeez, I waited 4 or 6 months for my Xin SuperMicro IV and was happy for it as I forgot about it by the time it arrived. I think a few weeks isn't that problematic.


----------



## belac

Deleted


----------



## belac

Deleted


----------



## Nebby

shigzeo: I think part of the problem is that a large portion of Head-fi'ers now haven't experienced nor read about the Xin-level order wait times. Let alone Xin "customer service" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good point WalkGood, forgot about the purpose of the thread and let myself go OT. Back to our regularly scheduled program....good music.


----------



## WalkGood

This is a “Pico Slim first impressions and reviews thread” stop posting about shipping complaints here, use the other thread … I want to read opinions here.


----------



## belac

Deleted


----------



## dfkt

ROFL

 Now how about less whining, more useful posts? The signal-to-noise ratio of this thread is getting dangerously high.


----------



## Nebby

You mean low?


----------



## WalkGood

I didn’t point or complain about anyone member, this isn’t the place for that … go and open a complaints thread.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *belac* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The mods told me in a private message to post my complaints in this thread ..._

 

Brilliant advice to trash a thread about user opinions and impressions with I can’t wait or when will it come or the USPS service sucks, bla bla bla … what does any of that have to do with how the Pico Slim functions & performs? Rhetorical question, no need to answer it.


----------



## belac

I deleted my posts!! Sorry to offend!!!!


----------



## koonhua90

Just wondering, to those who hear the 'pop' sound when turning on pico slim(with earphone plugged in), how loud is it as compared to where you turn on the pico slim first before plugging in earphone? both way should have some 'pop', but im wondering how loud is it in both situations?


----------



## Jalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nebby* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_shigzeo: I think part of the problem is that a large portion of Head-fi'ers now haven't experienced nor read about the Xin-level order wait times. Let alone Xin "customer service" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Good point WalkGood, forgot about the purpose of the thread and let myself go OT. Back to our regularly scheduled program....good music._

 

First of all, just wanted to make clear that I am not here to complain anything about Pico or Justin at all. But I hear the above arguements quite a few times and just wanted to note the irrational and illogical assumption that it makes. Everyone agrees and knows the situation with Xin (I am still on the preorder list after two years). It seems that whenever there is any dissatisfaction with any venders, the problem is being compare to the Xin situation and therefore if it is not as bad as Xin then we should be satiafied with what one is dealt with. What kind of crazy thinking is that to use Xin as a standard upon which all other customer service is judge by? and is it even possible to go below that standard? and if we do use that as a standard we might as well to tell all of us to shut up and don't voice any dissatisfaction at all for I doubt if there is any situation that can match that.


----------



## nc8000

SinglePower, LaRocco and at least one other from some years ago (can no longer remember who) equals or beats Xin imho. Totally off topic btw.


----------



## boomana

Guys, please start a separate thread if you want to talk about shipping waits or problems. No problem with the topic, but let's attempt to keep this thread to pico slim impressions. 

 I've had mine now for something like two weeks, and have been jotting down impressions. Hopefully, I'll be able to post some up in a few days.


----------



## vpivinylspinner

I have spent a lot of time listening to the Slim in an unexpected setup; iPad>Camera Connection kit>Pico DAC>Pico Slim. It is really a very nice travel setup and makes watching movies on the iPad a real pleasure.


----------



## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koonhua90* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just wondering, to those who hear the 'pop' sound when turning on pico slim(with earphone plugged in), how loud is it as compared to where you turn on the pico slim first before plugging in earphone? both way should have some 'pop', but im wondering how loud is it in both situations?_

 

The pop or thump is similar in either situation and the only way to avoid it to use a inline volume control or to not have your monitors/iem’s in ear for the second you power the amp. That said, I have been looking for a way to measure it but I don’t have the proper equipment so the best I can at this point in time is to guess. If we are going to be guessing, we should at least use a standard and I would suggest these examples of sound pressure and SPL’s in trying to come closer to a consensus.

 I’ll start out by stating that I believe it falls somewhere in the range of 40db to 60db, although I would like to reserve the right to change my first guesstimate as it could be lower.

 BTW I did email both Knowles Electronics and Ultimate Ears engineers to get some feed back. I did receive a reply from UE but I doubt that Knowles will respond. For the time being I’ll hold off on posting the reply till we get a better consensus, rather than fuel a fire that might not be an issue.


----------



## Jalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vpivinylspinner* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have spent a lot of time listening to the Slim in an unexpected setup; iPad>Camera Connection kit>Pico DAC>Pico Slim. It is really a very nice travel setup and makes watching movies on the iPad a real pleasure.




_

 

You beat me to it. This is awesome and is what I am trying to set up except I am still waiting for my slim. The only wish is that if the Dac and Amp can be combine into one unit that will be even better for traveling purposes. Can you compare the sound between this setup and one with Ipod classic? I am dying to know?


----------



## vpivinylspinner

I can compare it with a 64gb Touch and a Nano. I do not have a classic.

 They are not really close. I really think the Pico DAC is fantastic for such a little guy and is in another league when compared to LOD from an iPod. 

 I am trying to compare this setup to iPad>Connector>Pico Amp/DAC as it would obviously cut down on clutter and keep me from having to disconnect the Slim from the daily commute rig.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

NVM


----------



## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got tracking 4:40AM ..._

 

And this is relevant to “first impressions and reviews thread” how, please follow boomana's recommendation above.


----------



## Jalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vpivinylspinner* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can compare it with a 64gb Touch and a Nano. I do not have a classic.

 They are not really close. I really think the Pico DAC is fantastic for such a little guy and is in another league when compared to LOD from an iPod. 

 I am trying to compare this setup to iPad>Connector>Pico Amp/DAC as it would obviously cut down on clutter and keep me from having to disconnect the Slim from the daily commute rig._

 

64 gb Touch and Nano will be fine. Just wanted to have something to compare that set up to. If it is better, by how much? Thanks.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Another NVM. It's not worth it.


----------



## WalkGood

I am always amazed at your relevance and maturity I did not sneak anything and thanks again for taking the thread off topic.


----------



## Rockford

vpivinylspinner that rig is really sick, i can only imagine as to it's effectiveness.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did see her post after I replied and switched to the next page, and I removed my post after I finished reading the thread. But you snuck your little snide remark in before I updated the page and saw it. I post this now, just so you don't think you were responsible for my editing my post. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 








 Man up to your mistakes don't make excuses and try to shift some sort of blame onto someone who is literate enough to show you where you go wrong.

 Yet another example of how post count does not reflect intelligence, knowledge, of common decency.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You beat me to it. This is awesome and is what I am trying to set up except I am still waiting for my slim. The only wish is that if the Dac and Amp can be combine into one unit that will be even better for traveling purposes. Can you compare the sound between this setup and one with Ipod classic? I am dying to know? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It might be a novel idea but I really don't understand what the point of having a Pico DAC and the Slim is, as opposed to just having a one-box Pico amp/dac. The Slim can't sound _that _different (or better) than the original Pico (which is a great amp, even if a bit pricey). If you're into Justin's gear and looking for portability wouldn't it be a better idea to just have the original Pic/Dac? Just wonderin'....


----------



## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vpivinylspinner* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have spent a lot of time listening to the Slim in an unexpected setup; iPad>Camera Connection kit>Pico DAC>Pico Slim. …_

 

Why do you say “unexpected,” didn’t you order each unit with a purpose in mind?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It might be a novel idea but I really don't understand what the point of having a Pico DAC and the Slim is, as opposed to just having a one-box Pico amp/dac. The Slim can't sound that different (or better) than the original Pico (which is a great amp, even if a bit pricey). …_

 

I agree with you Hellenback for a travel setup you can cut down on the number of devices you carry and although a Pico amp/DAC is expensive, it’s less than paying for a Slim and separate DAC. That said, we’re all different and I’m sure vpivinylspinner has his reasons. I’m not traveling much any more but I still use my Pico amp/DAC with my laptop and it’s a great combo. Not to mention it also offers a high gain mode allowing you to adequately drive higher impedance phones, it’s a very good product and I truly enjoy it. 

 Now back to the Slim, has anyone given thought in trying to ascertain the SPL of the pop/thump?


----------



## vpivinylspinner

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It might be a novel idea but I really don't understand what the point of having a Pico DAC and the Slim is, as opposed to just having a one-box Pico amp/dac. The Slim can't sound that different (or better) than the original Pico (which is a great amp, even if a bit pricey). If you're into Justin's gear and looking for portability wouldn't it be a better idea to just have the original Pic/Dac? Just wonderin'....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I have both the Pico DAC/Slim and the Pico Amp/DAC combinations. When I am traveling I will always have the Pico Slim strapped to an iPod so it is actually no different to carry the Pico Dac to combine them all than it is to carry the Amp/DAC to use on the iPad.

 I do not try to use the iPad as a giant iPod when I am out and about, it is only used in that manner when I am at my desk or in a hotel room. Any other times I will be using the Nano/Slim which is greatly preferred to the Nano/Pico Amp/DAC package when carrying in my pocket all day.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vpivinylspinner* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have both the Pico DAC/Slim and the Pico Amp/DAC combinations. When I am traveling I will always have the Pico Slim strapped to an iPod so it is actually no different to carry the Pico Dac to combine them all than it is to carry the Amp/DAC to use on the iPad.

 I do not try to use the iPad as a giant iPod when I am out and about, it is only used in that manner when I am at my desk or in a hotel room. Any other times I will be using the Nano/Slim which is greatly preferred to the Nano/Pico Amp/DAC package when carrying in my pocket all day._

 

I plan to do much the same, though with a MacBook Pro. It's funny to think that now I feel my (expensive at the time I bought them) TF10s are now inadequate IEMs.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It might be a novel idea but I really don't understand what the point of having a Pico DAC and the Slim is, as opposed to just having a one-box Pico amp/dac. The Slim can't sound that different (or better) than the original Pico (which is a great amp, even if a bit pricey). If you're into Justin's gear and looking for portability wouldn't it be a better idea to just have the original Pic/Dac? Just wonderin'....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Like VPIvinylspinner said, the Slim is more portable and you can leave the DAC behind.

 But also at CanJam I found the Slim to sound fuller and warmer sounding than the original Pico, and it suited me better. The differences were subtle but there. That missing warmth and fullness with some of my headphones was the one thing that kept the Pico with it's superior DAC from being my number one DAC/amp. It was so close to my first choice that I'd be happy if it were my only one, but when alternatives were available I found myself using them at the expense of the improved micro-detail and soundstage the Pico w/DAC offered. The differences in my top choice portable DAC amps is all very small and subtle lately, and so it's hard these days to answer "which one is best" because they all excel now.

 When size isn't an issue for portable, the Pico w/DAC likely is a better choice to avoid having to carry around two pieces and a mini-mini cable, in return for more power with full size phones.


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's funny to think that now I feel my (expensive at the time I bought them) TF10s are now inadequate IEMs._

 

Aargh, Currawong. Do I really have to hear this? I know that there are ES3X or JH13/16s on my horizon but I keep being amazed by how much I like my Triple-fi's. Perhaps ignorance is bliss?


----------



## vpivinylspinner

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_64 gb Touch and Nano will be fine. Just wanted to have something to compare that set up to. If it is better, by how much? Thanks._

 

Don't necessarily know how to quantify such a thing but I think the sound using a good DAC and amp instead of the stuff inside the iPod is dramatically better.

 I have never held the iPod as a source to get too excited about and feel the Computer/iPad interface to outboard DAC and amp is better in every way.


----------



## h.rav

I just received mine (serial #23). It's very very small... much smaller than I thought 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm feeding the Slim with AMB y2, driving a JH16 Pro. It's dead quiet with smooth & precise volume control. This is the only portable amp that I can live with. Now, I just have to wait for qusp to make a low profile LOD for my iPod.


----------



## midoo1990

No one have ANY high end universal iem to pair with the pico slim and give us some impressions?I am amazed by how many headfiers have jh13 and no one commented on universal iems with the slim or even the protector.I am really considering one but the price tag is high,at least for me and I want to know if there will be a great effect on iems.
 HPA,I am waiting for your slim impressions as you seem like one of the few who have high end universal iems to compare with.
 Thanks.


----------



## dfkt

It's just an amp, it's not going to be so different with other IEMs.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

So in the end, i got through 3 charges on my slim, roughly 130-140 hours, and it hadnt changed. Everytime i switched from the Slim to the protector again, i enjoyed the music more. All the same things i talked about before. I was hoping that the little bit of mid bass hump would go away or that it would get a little deeper, but it didnt. Also, i found that at listening volume when i unplugged my headphones i could tell, like i couldnt hear the noise, but once it was gone i noticed, with the protector i dont even get that.

 So because of all that, i decided to sell my slim, its going to a good home down in southern california though, and the proceeds will go towards me buying a Phoenix, which ive decided to purchase as a desktop amp for my jh-13's


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No one have ANY high end universal iem to pair with the pico slim and give us some impressions?I am amazed by how many headfiers have jh13 and no one commented on universal iems with the slim or even the protector.I am really considering one but the price tag is high,at least for me and I want to know if there will be a great effect on iems.
 HPA,I am waiting for your slim impressions as you seem like one of the few who have high end universal iems to compare with.
 Thanks._

 

I only just unboxed my Slim about an hour ago. It sounds as good as I remember. I posted impressions in the Protector thread about the Slim demo vs Protector, and also likely posted a few thoughts here in this thread. But now I want to spend more time with it getting to know it better. I'm sure there are plenty of people here who can offer impressions while I delve deeper into the amp for the next couple of days.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *h.rav* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now, I just have to wait for qusp to make a low profile LOD for my iPod. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

yes, well if Justin would ship mine I would have something to make it perfect with (apparently would be in the post today at some point, but nada, guess tomorrow, though I actually think i've got you covered already 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 check you're email in 30 mins.

 @ Larry, I think we can survive without your impressions for a little bit longer


----------



## jc9394

Crappy iPhone images on how small it is...


----------



## jc9394

What is the normal listening level on the dial? i have to crank it up to 60-70% with my nano.


----------



## lifedash

jc9394 - That is the same combo I am putting together. Is that a Micro TWag LOD? How is the overall synergy using your JH13's? I am still trying to decide which would be better (JH13 or 16) for my listening needs. I am also interested to find out if the 60-70% dial position is normal?


----------



## justin w.

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is the normal listening level on the dial? i have to crank it up to 60-70% with my nano._

 

What's wrong with that? You're not "cranking" anything.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

i also dont understand the problem with turning it up like that. with most amps that would be a good thing, since that is removing as much of the effects of the pot as possible, though with the slim, i dont understand exactly how that works with the variable gain.


----------



## qusp

remember its not a normal linear volume pot, the ratio is logarithmic, so the further you turn it the faster it increases the output, you with me? so at the beginning of the dial it increases slowly so there is more control, but towards the end it is increasing faster. so 60-70% on the dial rotation is not 60-70% of the power of the amp, how much exactly it is I dont know, only justin does.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *justin w.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's wrong with that? You're not "cranking" anything._

 

I'm not saying anything wrong with that at all, I actually like it more since I have more play room on the dial. I just make sure that there isn't anything with my amp. The other portable amps I owned including your Pico Amp/Dac, I can never dial it pass 11.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lifedash* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_jc9394 - That is the same combo I am putting together. Is that a Micro TWag LOD? How is the overall synergy using your JH13's? I am still trying to decide which would be better (JH13 or 16) for my listening needs. I am also interested to find out if the 60-70% dial position is normal?_

 

It is latest Nano with TWag. As far as synergy with JH13, it is too early for me to comment but it is one of the best single ended portable I owned. I'm glad I waited all these time for it.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Crappy iPhone images on how small it is...






_

 

Sexiest portable rig I have seen since my fatty Black Nano with a Xin SuperMini and punnisher low profile lod.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sexiest portable rig I have seen since my fatty Black Nano with a Xin SuperMini and punnisher low profile lod._

 

Thanks, I'm glad I wait for it. This will be my travel rig.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sexiest portable rig I have seen since my fatty Black Nano with a Xin SuperMini and punnisher low profile lod._

 

more to come
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 agreed the silver is sweet looking


----------



## oogabooga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koonhua90* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how loud is it [the pop] as compared to where you turn on the pico slim first before plugging in earphone?_

 

As I mentioned before, I hear a "thump" or "muted pop" when turning on the Slim with IEMs plugged in. It's much louder than the 'sound' I hear plugging my IEMs into an already powered up Slim (which sounds the same as when I plug my IEMs into my iPhone). [/]


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It might be a novel idea but I really don't understand what the point of having a Pico DAC and the Slim is, as opposed to just having a one-box Pico amp/dac._

 

I agree! We need a Pico v2, with digital volume control!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Slim can't sound that different (or better) than the original Pico (which is a great amp, even if a bit pricey)._

 

I don't think it's that the Slim sounds _better_ than the original Pico, but that it has much better control with IEMs. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No one have ANY high end universal iem to pair with the pico slim and give us some impressions?._

 

You may have missed this, but I posted my impressions with SE530s earlier in the thread, here.


----------



## oogabooga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WalkGood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oogabooga* 
Of course the volume control puts the original Pico to shame on IEMs.

 

I think you are off base with that statement, I use both and the original Pico is still a great performer with my ue11s. I honestly don’t believe it’s an easy task to note differences between the two. If you are strictly speaking of the potentiometer, sure the Slim can go down to a very quiet level and the steps are very small but the original Pico performs well at low levels, it just doesn’t have small steps. As far as any channel imbalance it’s very hard to tell by listening back & forth, if not impossible and you state “it's been over two months since I had the Pico, so I'm going from memory,” again, I think you’re wrong, the original Pico is still a very solid performer._

 

No, I stand by my statement, having owned and heard both the Pico and the Slim. As my comment referred to volume control, I am speaking of the potentiometer/digital volume control, particularly with respect to the Slim's ability to select any volume I desire and have no discernible channel imbalance. 

 BTW, my comment on "going from memory" was in the context of sound signature, which I'm likely to forget with time. I sure haven't forgetten about fiddling with the pot on the original Pico when I wanted to listen quietly (e.g. late at night), and I don't forget that my right channel was always louder than the left at those low volumes (and only those low volumes). Maybe the potentiometer on your Pico has better channel balance at low volumes than mine did - of course that's a known weakness of most potentiometers.

 The subpar performance of pots with respect to channel balance is well known, and I think that's why HeadAmp chose the route they did with the Slim. I still think the original Pico is an excellent piece of equipment with a great DAC and solid performance with a wide range of cans. It was, in my mind, the top amp for IEMs... last year!


 PS: Apologies for double posting, but I didn't want this to get lost in the last post I made.


----------



## Hellenback

PS: Apologies for double posting, but I didn't want this to get lost in the last post I made.[/QUOTE]


 We gotta get together for an Arrow-HE/Pico slim comparison mini-meet!


----------



## Iron_Dreamer

Well, the potentiometer of my original Pico seems to be quite well balanced at the low volumes. Nevertheless, the Slim's much greater range of volume control, and ease of making very minute volume adjustments does put the original Pico to shame.

 As it pertains to sound quality, comparing them head-to-head, the Slim certainly seems to have a bit quicker decay, making individual notes and sounds more distinct. I think this also lends itself to a more refined, realistic treble presentation. Not huge differences, but certainly quite noticeable for me, having been used to the standard Pico for a couple of years now. 

 Overall, they do sound very similar in terms of frequency response and overall presentation. This is definitely a good thing, in my book, as the original Pico has quite a neutral tone, and the Slim seems to maintain it.

 On the whole, the Slim certainly feels like an overall refinement of the original Pico. The chassis is sleeker and smaller, while generally feeling better built (though the volume knob does feel a touch fragile). The micro-usb port is certainly an upgrade, as I no longer need to carry a separate charger for the amp (just use the same cable I already have for a phone). And of course the new leather case is a lot cooler than the old Pico bag.

 Thus far the Slim is just about everything I could have asked for in such an amp.


----------



## K3cT

Is this worth the upgrade if you already have a Pico DAC/Amp?


----------



## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oogabooga* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, I stand by my statement ..._

 

Not sure but what makes more sense to me is that you may have had a defective potentiometer. As I implied before and Iron_Dreamer confirms the channel balance is very good, even at low volumes. BTW I still own mine and my listening has been switching back and forth for a while now but who am I to debate with someone that can hear channel imbalance going on 2 months


----------



## qusp

yeah I cant say I ever noticed any channel imbalance to speak of and I used IEMs exclusively with mine


----------



## justin w.

All analog potentiometers, especially the small ones used in portable amps, have channel imbalance and are limited in their max attenuation. The "green Alps" that is often used only has about 70dB attenuation -- this is why you can still hear music with the volume all the way down. As you turn it up, there will be a left/right imbalance up to a certain point which is going to vary between every pot. The worst ones might not be matched until 40dB attenuation -- could be extremely loud with sensitive IEMs. I have to test all of them by hand and I try to only use the ones matched at 60dB attenuation (left/right difference less than 1dB), which requires throwing away the majority of pots. The digital volume control in the Pico Slim goes down to 110dB attenuation and is always matched at every step to within 0.1dB. Even the Alps RK50 pot, a $1k option in some amps, only offers 100dB attenuation and channel balance of 1dB or better


----------



## qusp

yeah, I just never noticed it with the pico (was ages ago now, when I owned it though), I dont tend to listen too much for such things and listen at moderate levels, so it would have to be a bit pronounced for it to effect my listening experience. I also tend to buy amps with, or build with components where its not such a problem; that and the fact I have been using digital volume control for the last year on both my sabre dacs. a different type that acts on the registers via i2c. I would never build with an analogue pot these days and all of my upcoming amp builds are not including a pot at all, because its attenuated at the source


----------



## Iron_Dreamer

Quote: 





k3ct said:


> Is this worth the upgrade if you already have a Pico DAC/Amp?


 

  
  Well that depends.  As an amp alone, the Slim is without question a better performer, both in sound quality and volume control quality.  The Pico Slim paired with the standalone Pico DAC does sound better than the Pico DAC/Amp (I have all three on my desk right now).
   
  Of course a Pico Slim+Pico DAC is more costly (though not by a ton) than the Pico DAC/amp.  But I think the added sound quality, volumne control performance, versatility, and improved battery life is worth it.  Of course, you do need to carry two boxes instead of one, which is the only real drawback I can see.
   
  I am really quite happy with the Slim.  I'd love to see a successor (even if it needs to be a bit larger) that has the DAC integrated.  Especially if Justin can make it 24/96 input capable.  Definitely if he can make it a fully balanced amp, straight from the DAC chip to the output.


----------



## oogabooga

Quote: 





walkgood said:


> ...but who am I to debate with someone that can hear channel imbalance going on 2 months


 
  I don't really care for your tone here.  I've stated what *I* clearly recalled, with my own audio equipment (and my own ears, I might add).  You're right, maybe my Pico did have a less than perfect potentiometer, _like I'd already suggested_. Maybe my hearing is very good at low volumes.  Either way, you needn't be rude about it.


----------



## koonhua90

Quote: 





iron_dreamer said:


> Well that depends.  As an amp alone, the Slim is without question a better performer, both in sound quality and volume control quality.  The Pico Slim paired with the standalone Pico DAC does sound better than the Pico DAC/Amp (I have all three on my desk right now).
> 
> Of course a Pico Slim+Pico DAC is more costly (though not by a ton) than the Pico DAC/amp.  But I think the added sound quality, volumne control performance, versatility, and improved battery life is worth it.  Of course, you do need to carry two boxes instead of one, which is the only real drawback I can see.
> 
> I am really quite happy with the Slim.  I'd love to see a successor (even if it needs to be a bit larger) that has the DAC integrated.  Especially if Justin can make it 24/96 input capable.  Definitely if he can make it a fully balanced amp, straight from the DAC chip to the output.


 

 I know this might be off the track, but what kinda players have digital out to be used with a DAC, could you give a few examples? can any of the ipod do that?


----------



## Iron_Dreamer

Quote: 





koonhua90 said:


> I know this might be off the track, but what kinda players have digital out to be used with a DAC, could you give a few examples? can any of the ipod do that?


 

 I'm not aware of any iPod that does.  The iRiver H120/40 and H320/40 models have optical digital output.
   
  However, I was not referring to any SPDIF based DAC.  I love the simplicity of the current Pico DAC, in that it is direct USB->I2S before the DAC chip for the cleanest, lowest-jitter performance.  Sure, you need a computer to host it, but that is a small debt to pay for the sound quality.
   
  The setup I had envisioned would be the ultimate in sound-quality, in a small/portable form factor, for computer-based use.  Think of it as a balanced version of the Pico DAC/amp, with the improved volume contol of the Slim.


----------



## koonhua90

Quote: 





iron_dreamer said:


> I'm not aware of any iPod that does.  The iRiver H120/40 and H320/40 models have optical digital output.
> 
> However, I was not referring to any SPDIF based DAC.  I love the simplicity of the current Pico DAC, in that it is direct USB->I2S before the DAC chip for the cleanest, lowest-jitter performance.  Sure, you need a computer to host it, but that is a small debt to pay for the sound quality.
> 
> The setup I had envisioned would be the ultimate in sound-quality, in a small/portable form factor, for computer-based use.  Think of it as a balanced version of the Pico DAC/amp, with the improved volume contol of the Slim.


 

 Thanks for your reply. I think the new Ipad can be connected to a DAC, as I have seen pictures a few pages back on this thread.


----------



## EphemeralHope

Just got this amp in.... it's so small  - is there any specific DAP/LOD that has some special synergy with this remarkably small object?


----------



## h.rav

^ Nah, just use whatever source that you are most familiar with. The amp is quite neutral. There is no way that I would go back to a normal pot!


----------



## Edwood

My favorite combo, right now.


----------



## qusp

USB->i2s is just as capable of jitter as spdif->i2s, probably moreso depending on the receiver. now USB->spdif->i2s is more prone.
   
  where oh where can my little amp be.....


----------



## Asr

I received Pico Slim #12 the other day. Nice & sleek in the polished silver. 
   


 

 


  (click for larger)


----------



## MARSHH

A bit off topic, but how do these compare to the iBasso D4?


----------



## qusp

they dont


----------



## WalkGood

Quote: 





oogabooga said:


> I don't really care for your tone here.  I've stated what *I* clearly recalled, with my own audio equipment (and my own ears, I might add).  You're right, maybe my Pico did have a less than perfect potentiometer, _like I'd already suggested_. Maybe my hearing is very good at low volumes.  Either way, you needn't be rude about it.


 
   
  You may not like the tone of logic either; apologies if I ruffled your feathers but I laugh when read how people clearly remember something without actually doing a direct comparison and state it as facts or recommendations to others. So I stand behind my post and if you don’t like it, so be it … as I stated either your potentiometer was off or your memory of sound imbalance after 2 months is off. According to Justin’s post here the left/right difference is less than 1dB which is impossible to hear at normal listening levels, unless you can hear a butterfly fart.


----------



## The Monkey

Quote: 





koonhua90 said:


> I know this might be off the track, but what kinda players have digital out to be used with a DAC, could you give a few examples? can any of the ipod do that?


 
  The iPad can do it with the camera attachment and certain DACs like the Pico DAC.


----------



## EphemeralHope

this is more of a general question but how loud am I supposed to leave my DAP(I leave it at 60-70%) before controlling volume from my amp... or does it not matter? I was thinking that maybe if I just turned my Ipod down to a very low volume and the amp really high then maybe my DAP would last longer with its battery


----------



## BaboonGuy

Quote: 





ephemeralhope said:


> this is more of a general question but how loud am I supposed to leave my DAP(I leave it at 60-70%) before controlling volume from my amp... or does it not matter? I was thinking that maybe if I just turned my Ipod down to a very low volume and the amp really high then maybe my DAP would last longer with its battery


 

 Hmmm very interesting. To me, who has almost no knowledge of the science or inner workings of these things, seems like it would work.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote: 





ephemeralhope said:


> this is more of a general question but how loud am I supposed to leave my DAP(I leave it at 60-70%) before controlling volume from my amp... or does it not matter? I was thinking that maybe if I just turned my Ipod down to a very low volume and the amp really high then maybe my DAP would last longer with its battery


 
  Normally, you'd leave your DAP @100% volume. With the iPod + LOD, the volume doesn't matter.


----------



## EphemeralHope

i see i see - still waiting for my lod to come in so I guess that will solve everything


----------



## Scott_Tarlow

Quote: 





iron_dreamer said:


> Well that depends.  As an amp alone, the Slim is without question a better performer, both in sound quality and volume control quality.  The Pico Slim paired with the standalone Pico DAC does sound better than the Pico DAC/Amp (I have all three on my desk right now).
> 
> Of course a Pico Slim+Pico DAC is more costly (though not by a ton) than the Pico DAC/amp.  But I think the added sound quality, volumne control performance, versatility, and improved battery life is worth it.  Of course, you do need to carry two boxes instead of one, which is the only real drawback I can see.
> 
> I am really quite happy with the Slim.  I'd love to see a successor (even if it needs to be a bit larger) that has the DAC integrated.  Especially if Justin can make it 24/96 input capable.  Definitely if he can make it a fully balanced amp, straight from the DAC chip to the output.


 

 So what about the Pico Amp/DAC + the Pico slim vs the slim + Pico DAC only. I know this seems redundant, but I already have the Pico DAC/Amp, and really dont wanna go through the whole trouble of not having a DAC while i sell the Pico if I do it.


----------



## Edwood

Quote: 





scott_tarlow said:


> So what about the Pico Amp/DAC + the Pico slim vs the slim + Pico DAC only. I know this seems redundant, but I already have the Pico DAC/Amp, and really dont wanna go through the whole trouble of not having a DAC while i sell the Pico if I do it.


 

 You could always buy the Pico DAC first, then sell the Pico Amp DAC.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  -Ed


----------



## maunmaun

Nice review, thanks. Was just wondering about this amp (To drive a D5000)


----------



## mechever64

vpivinylspinner showed us an amazing setup with iPad & pico DAC & pico slim. Is it going to work also with my pico USB dac/amp? I mean, iPad with camera adapter and pico USB DAC/AMP? Just plug & play?


----------



## vpivinylspinner

Yes it works fine with the Pico Amp/DAC.


----------



## Jalo

Vpivinylspinner:  I posted a question in the thread below pertaining to the post above.  Can you chime in and help?  Thanks.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/483404/ipad-to-support-usb-audio-interfaces-via-camera-connection-kit/105


----------



## Iron_Dreamer

Quote: 





scott_tarlow said:


> So what about the Pico Amp/DAC + the Pico slim vs the slim + Pico DAC only. I know this seems redundant, but I already have the Pico DAC/Amp, and really dont wanna go through the whole trouble of not having a DAC while i sell the Pico if I do it.


 

 I haven't tried it.  Seems like a rather silly thing to try anyway, because no matter how good the Slim might sound, I'm sure it's not perfect (no amp is), and to use it downstream of another amp would just degrade the signal for no good reason.  Well, I suppose you could still use the Slim's volume control knob for its' greater precision, but the sound would be no better than the Pico DAC/amp alone, I guarantee you.


----------



## Scott_Tarlow

Quote: 





iron_dreamer said:


> I haven't tried it.  Seems like a rather silly thing to try anyway, because no matter how good the Slim might sound, I'm sure it's not perfect (no amp is), and to use it downstream of another amp would just degrade the signal for no good reason.  Well, I suppose you could still use the Slim's volume control knob for its' greater precision, but the sound would be no better than the Pico DAC/amp alone, I guarantee you.


 

 I have used the pico dac/amp to feed other amps before, and i think you are right in that it does degrade the quality a little bit. I don't think I will be getting rid of the big pico, and i dont think I will purchase the slim. Maybe I will wait for the next portable DAC/Amp that justin comes out with, or try RSA.


----------



## dcpoor

Just chiming in with the mandatory "Oh man, this amp is so small/smaller than i expected" post.


----------



## itsborken

The digital volume control in the Slim is something else.  I have to admit I was thinking it wouldn't make that much of a difference but the finite control it provides surprised me.  Need to take some time ABing it with the Pico.


----------



## dcpoor




----------



## Oomingmak

Quote:  

 Any impressions?


----------



## jamato8

I am waiting for more burn in.


----------



## dcpoor

No sound impressions yet, planning on trying etymotic er4p/s with it tonight. But so far I love the fine control of the volume.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





dfkt said:


> It's just an amp, it's not going to be so different with other IEMs.


 

 Great reply....I wish more people kept is as simple as it actually is. Relax and enjoy whatever great gear you choose to buy. IMO it's better to invest in well mastered music than pay a premium for minute, barely audible (and often questionable) differences between high quality portable amps.


----------



## EphemeralHope

No, it's more important to buy a hifiman and then buy music! haha, just kidding 
   
  On a sidenote, this amp really looks nice with the square shaped nano 
  
  Quote: 





hellenback said:


> Great reply....I wish more people kept is as simple as it actually is. Relax and enjoy whatever great gear you choose to buy. IMO it's better to invest in well mastered music than pay a premium for minute, barely audible (and often questionable) differences between high quality portable amps.


----------



## DLeeWebb

I am impressed with this little amp. I'm not particularly good at expressing the subtle nuances of my critical listening experience like so many others that I admire for that skill that regularly post here at Head-Fi. However, I must say that I have never been as impressed, right out of the box, by any of the other amps that I have owned. The expanse of the soundstage, the tight "punchiness" of the bass, and the clarity of the highs are wonderful. The synergy of the Pico Slim with my Westone 3's and my 3G iPod Nano is very enjoyable. I thought that my Pico Amp (USB/DAC) and my Tomahawk were portable, the Pico Slim redefines portable for me. I'm very pleased with this purchase...


----------



## dcpoor

Here's my impressions of the pico slim with er4p/s  -->


----------



## Oomingmak

Quote: 





dleewebb said:


> I am impressed with this little amp. I'm not particularly good at expressing the subtle nuances of my critical listening experience like so many others that I admire for that skill that regularly post here at Head-Fi. However, I must say that I have never been as impressed, right out of the box, by any of the other amps that I have owned. The expanse of the soundstage, the tight "punchiness" of the bass, and the clarity of the highs are wonderful. The synergy of the Pico Slim with my Westone 3's and my 3G iPod Nano is very enjoyable. I thought that my Pico Amp (USB/DAC) and my Tomahawk were portable, the Pico Slim redefines portable for me. I'm very pleased with this purchase...


 
  So the bass is more defined and has more impact? What about overall bass quantity and warmth? Also, what about transparency?


----------



## DLeeWebb

Quote: 





oomingmak said:


> So the bass is more defined and has more impact? What about overall bass quantity and warmth? Also, what about transparency?


 

 The bass is defined and has impact. The quantity is perfect for me. With regard to transparency and warmth you'll have to ask around about that...


----------



## gsawdy

Quote: 





dcpoor said:


> Here's my impressions of the pico slim with er4p/s  -->


 


 They need to get one that shows you wetting your pants.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Congrats, I'm still waiting for mine to ship--geo


----------



## Nebby

Quote: 





dcpoor said:


> Here's my impressions of the pico slim with er4p/s  -->


 

 Listening to my y2/pico slim/er4s  combo now and it's goooooood.


----------



## Aura

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I am waiting for more burn in.


 

 Like anyone should be surprised.


----------



## Nebby

Needs moar burn in!
   
  /sarcasm


----------



## skyhook

Somebody knows, whether version Pico Slim c DAC is planned?


----------



## gsawdy

Pico Slim and balanced operation
   
  I'm very curious to hear what balancing an HP can do.  I have HP that are balanced but I don't have an amp (balanced or unbalanced).  I'm #128 on the Slim waiting list.  This will be my first HP amp.  Just wondering if there is some way to input one channel to the slim and get a single channel balanced output.
   
  Anyone got an idea and explanation of how to go about this. 
   
  Two Slims anyone?  This is what happens while one is passing time on the waiting list.
   
  TIA,   George


----------



## gsawdy

Quote:


skyhook said:


> Somebody knows, whether version Pico Slim c DAC is planned?


 
   
  In the first thread, Justin was pretty firm in saying there would be no combo DAC/amp.
   
  George


----------



## qusp

you need a balanced source too, not much point having a dual mono/bridged (not balanced) amp without a balanced source.


----------



## Edwood

Really liking the Slim.  But the volume control is sometimes erratic for some reason.  It really misbehaves with my Smyth Realiser with quiet passages in movies, if I turn the volume up and down quickly.  The left and right channels cut in and out, and then stabilize, but then the volume is very quiet until about 2 o'clock on the knob position, and the volume suddenly jumps up. 
   
  And it makes click clack static noises when the volume is changed, like I can hear it stepping.  Sometimes it's pretty bad and has crackling noises too.  It's weird. 
   
  I've already talked to Justin about it.  I have a knack for finding really weird problems.  I'll have him check it out at CanJam.  Otherwise, it works best with my HM-801.  Considerably better than the stock and GAME amp boards. 
   
  Sound improvements are more subtle with my JH13's, but improvement is more noticeable with my Shure SRH840's.  I switched back and forth between GAME Amp board and with using line out to the original Pico and the Pico Slim. 
   
  -Ed


----------



## gsawdy

Quote: 





qusp said:


> you need a balanced source too, not much point having a dual mono/bridged (not balanced) amp without a balanced source.


 

 Hi qusp,
   
  Thank you for the reply.

 Yes, I understand that the full benefit of balanced is realized only from the beginning to end:  DAC -> HP .  But there has been an undercurrent theme of the benefts to HP of balancing them.  I just want to see if I could test that out by changing only one item in the chain without having to buy another amp.  If you read the "other thread" about the amp who shall not be named there is observed to be a significant difference between SE vs Balanced operation. 
   
  Could you please explain the difference between dual mono which as I understand it just "doubles" the power and keeps one channel's demands on the power source from affecting the other channel's need for power VS balanced?  I was expecting someone to suggest a way to reconfigure the input connector so that one channel of the slim handled the signal as before and the other channel handled the inverse of that same channel's signal.  This may be totally stupid as I'm not an EE, just curious!
   
  TIA,  George


----------



## Oomingmak

Quote: 





edwood said:


> Sound improvements are more subtle with my JH13's, but improvement is more noticeable with my Shure SRH840's.  I switched back and forth between GAME Amp board and with using line out to the original Pico and the Pico Slim.
> 
> -Ed


 
  Sound improvements such as?


----------



## qusp

Quote: 





gsawdy said:


> Hi qusp,
> 
> Thank you for the reply.
> 
> ...


 
   
  this is a bit off topic for here, but just quickly, I dont think you are understanding what i'm saying, or the concept at play. its not just that you need a balanced source to maintain the full benefit the whole way through the chain; its that without a balanced source and/or without a single ended to bridged/differential conversion stage, you cannot have balanced AT ALL.
   
  the slim is a fully single ended amp ie. both left and right channels are amplified with reference to ground or '0'. if you had a balanced dac you could feed the +/- signal to a pair of stereo amps. When used together as a bridged/dual mono (not balanced) amp, its not balanced per-se because both poles +/- are still amplified with respect to ground, but the difference is the ground is then floated on the output ie, you dont connect the ground to the headphones and the sound they produce is in the same manner as in balanced audio. it doesnt have all the same benefts as fully differential because the ground still has influence to some degree on the audio. AFAIK this is how the other amp works as well, but it happens in an opamp circuit.
   
  so no, there is nothing you can do at the connector to change this, something has to produce an inverted signal to begin with; either at the source or in the amp somewhere there needs to be a phase splitter, it doesnt matter so much to the amp whether you feed it an inverted phase signal for one channel and the other positive phase, both are still amplified with reference to ground


----------



## gsawdy

Quote: 





qusp said:


> so no, there is nothing you can do at the connector to change this, something has to produce an inverted signal to begin with; either at the source or in the amp somewhere there needs to be a phase splitter, it doesnt matter so much to the amp whether you feed it an inverted phase signal for one channel and the other positive phase, both are still amplified with reference to ground


 


 Thank you qusp,  I think I understand what you are saying in general, and the last paragraph is very clear....
 George


----------



## Edwood

Quote: 





oomingmak said:


> Sound improvements such as?


 

 Cleaner sound, less distortion in general.  More precise volume control helps in that department too.  My Original Pico sounds fairly veiled in comparison. 
   
  -Ed


----------



## Oomingmak

Quote: 





edwood said:


> Cleaner sound, less distortion in general.  More precise volume control helps in that department too.  My Original Pico sounds fairly veiled in comparison.
> 
> -Ed


 

 Any differences or improvements in bass presentation?


----------



## BaboonGuy

Thanks for the impressions Edwood. That's a bit disappointing that it doesn't make too much a difference on the JH13. Besides the volume control, is there anything else that stands out with the JH13?


----------



## Edwood

Quote: 





baboonguy said:


> Thanks for the impressions Edwood. That's a bit disappointing that it doesn't make too much a difference on the JH13. Besides the volume control, is there anything else that stands out with the JH13?


 

 Well, it's the volume control and precise left and right channel balance that makes them great for the JH13 (and just about every IEM out there).  So it does make a big difference actually. 
   
  -Ed


----------



## Iron_Dreamer

Quote: 





baboonguy said:


> Thanks for the impressions Edwood. That's a bit disappointing that it doesn't make too much a difference on the JH13. Besides the volume control, is there anything else that stands out with the JH13?


 

 I wouldn't say that.  Refer back to my earlier posts, but the JH13 certainly benefits from both the improved channel balance and more natural/refined treble presentation of the Slim. 
   
  Being that that Shure SRH840 is much more power hungry (comparatively speaking), and with much larger driver elements and voice coils, there is more of a margin for the change of amp to effect driver control.  And it does.  The 840 is a much better sounding headphone from the Slim than from the original Pico.  Bass impact/control is improved, hence the lower mids clean up a bit, and you get better soundstaging/imaging and treble ( a la the JH13's improvements) to boot.
   
  In the case of an IEM, a headphone "amp" is nearly always acting as a buffer/attenuator, and as such it is charged with the duty of screwing up the sound as little as possible.  The heavier load of a full-sized headphone is more demanding of the amp, and more prone to expose differences in their relative performance, at least as far as power/control goes.
   
  So, you see, the JH13 benefits primarily from the new volume control system of the Slim, while the SRH840 benefits from that and the change in the amplification circuitry about equally, or at least as the two sound to me.


----------



## BaboonGuy

Glad to hear the imaging/soundstage improves. I definitely notice that a lot plugging the JH13 into my main rig (Pico DAC/Dynalo) vs. straight outta the Clip+.


----------



## Oomingmak

Quote: 





walkgood said:


> As far as my opinion on my Slim it sounds very good in the sweet spot but as I’ve stated before it seems to be a limited range on the potentiometer. Too low and it’s silent, too high and you hear a hiss, although I could not listen to tunes at that high volume regardless so all is good.
> 
> Edit: *Meaning if one makes a statement of their belief someone else should be allowed to make a statement to the contrary.


 

 Would you consider the presentation to be warm or analytical?


----------



## WalkGood

Quote: 





oomingmak said:


> Would you consider the presentation to be warm or analytical?


 
   
  I would not consider the Slim warm, possibly leaning towards the analytical side but personally I believe these traits are more applicable towards the source one uses and since I’ve been using mine with the i9 it sure seems to be a trait of this DAP. Funny enough I do feel the original pico produces a bit of warmth to the music but it’s possible I feel that way as it’s always paired with my i7 running bbe sound enhancements. For some strange reason, I still feel like I need a few more weeks with this amp to get a better feel for it ...


----------



## Oomingmak

Quote: 





walkgood said:


> I would not consider the Slim warm, possibly leaning towards the analytical side but personally I believe these traits are more applicable towards the source one uses and since I’ve been using mine with the i9 it sure seems to be a trait of this DAP. Funny enough I do feel the original pico produces a bit of warmth to the music but it’s possible I feel that way as it’s always paired with my i7 running bbe sound enhancements. For some strange reason, I still feel like I need a few more weeks with this amp to get a better feel for it ...


 

 Thank you


----------



## WalkGood

Quote: 





nebby said:


> You're welcome to post what you're doing with your amp. I guess it would be something to the effect of "I don't believe in burn-in, so I'm not burning in my amp" for the contrary equivalent  I didn't see your original post, so I'm just going on assumptions here but I'm guessing your post consisted of a bit more than that.
> 
> Ironically enough, I agree with you that burn-in in most cases is pointless (in the speaker world there are amps that do take some time to settle down after initial power on, though I'm not really sure that counts as "burn-in")
> 
> In regards to the limited range, I agree the most commonly used range is very small. Lots of steps in there, but the knob sensitivity is definitely a bit too high. Just means I need to take more care when adjusting the volume.


 

  
  You sure seem to be going on and on for someone who doesn’t believe in it, but that’s your prerogative. All I did was post my dissatisfaction that my opinion post was deleted and not the pro opinions. Sure that’s my opinion and I don’t try to force my opinion on others but I will defend it till proven wrong or I accept a different belief.
   
  Sure I believe that speakers and moving coil drivers need burn in to settle down. Although you might just miss some of the best parts by running your iem’s/phones for no other reason other than to satisfy some archaic ritual. Prim example, I own a pair of  MylarOne CrossRoads XB iem’s which were really fun for many hours till they completely lost their bass at some point over 100 + hours of use, can you imagine if I had wasted the first 70 or 80 hours of use on burn in. I wouldn’t have enjoyed them or the sound changes along the way and for all the hours that I did. I still use them occasionally but I really have to tweak the EQ to enjoy them now :/
   
  Nuff said from me on the subject, back to listening to my Slim and flavor of the day here


----------



## Currawong

Walkgood: This is the Pico slim first impressions and reviews thread.  It is not a thread to debate your pet points of view.  If you do not have a Pico Slim or are not going to buy one, please stay out of this thread.  Thankyou.
   
  To everyone else: If Walkgood or others post about off-topic subjects in here (or other threads) I suggest against replying to them, as that just contributes to de-railing the thread.
   
  Back on topic, have any Japanese Head-fiers received their Slims yet?
  日本のHead-fiのメンバーはSlimを受け取りましたか？


----------



## WalkGood

Quote: 





currawong said:


> ....  If you do not have a Pico Slim or are not going to buy one, please stay out of this thread.  Thankyou.
> 
> To everyone else: If Walkgood or others post about off-topic subjects in here (or other threads) I suggest against replying to them, as that just contributes to de-railing the thread. ...


 
  Thanks so much for pointing out that we got off topic, guess you haven't read any of the begining of the thread where I've not only posted pictures of my slim but some of my opinions as well, also guess you missed the picture I linked in the post above.


----------



## Rockford

Quote: 





currawong said:


> Walkgood: This is the Pico slim first impressions and reviews thread.  It is not a thread to debate your pet points of view.  If you do not have a Pico Slim or are not going to buy one, please stay out of this thread.  Thankyou.


 

 If you are going to post in a thread you might as well have some bastion of knowledge as to what is going on, maybe you should read the thread before posting your nonesense?


----------



## WalkGood

Hey no worries Rockford, I was off topic. The thing that gets me is that I’ve posted so many of my pictures and opinion about the slim, even before it came out, I posted all the pictures from the meet of it with my i7 and clip during testing and he writes “If you do not have a Pico Slim or are not going to buy one,” lol


----------



## animalsrush

Has someone used PICO slim with Sony X and can post their impressions. I am curious to hear about it. I placed a pre order and waiting to get into the queue. Also is it too early for someone to post detailed impression on the slim as some are just getting it. I am hearing tit bits but not a comprehensive review. Thanks
   
  PC


----------



## Iron_Dreamer

Quote: 





nebby said:


> Back on topic: I'm really enjoying my ER4-S fed via Pico Slim and sourced by my Gamma2. Amazingly good!


 

 Etymotics sounding good?  Who knew it was possible?


----------



## shigzeo

From the pictures I see, the Slim should fit the size of the Sony's quite well (slim and long - TWSS) and of course, help with the Sony's horrendous hiss.


----------



## Nebby

Ouch, that stung 
  Quote: 





iron_dreamer said:


> Etymotics sounding good?  Who knew it was possible?


----------



## qusp

hehe, i'll leave what I have to say there about the etys out  use your imagination.. 
   
  anyone in this last shipment from last week receive anything yet? I dont get it, the 'express post' , feather-light slim has been overtaken by a regular USPS mail package sent on the same day and I havent seen anyone else from my batch post since its arrival either. the USPS express tracking is utterly useless, hasnt changed since before it was picked up last weekend
   
  .


----------



## nc8000

Quote: 





iron_dreamer said:


> Etymotics sounding good?  Who knew it was possible?


 


 One of the all time greats


----------



## WalkGood

Quote: 





shigzeo said:


> From the pictures I see, the Slim should fit the size of the Sony's quite well ...


 
   
  I used sizeeasy last year to compare to my i9, easy to add your dimensions, here's the link:
http://www.sizeasy.com/page/size_comparison/26596-iAudio-9-vs-Pico-Slim
   
  I quickly looked and others have already added many players, didn't see the sony but there's a few ipods in there, just use search.


----------



## charlie0904

Quote: 





qusp said:


> hehe, i'll leave what I have to say there about the etys out  use your imagination..
> 
> anyone in this last shipment from last week receive anything yet? I dont get it, the 'express post' , feather-light slim has been overtaken by a regular USPS mail package sent on the same day and I havent seen anyone else from my batch post since its arrival either. the USPS express tracking is utterly useless, hasnt changed since before it was picked up last weekend
> 
> .


 
   
  me too.  still waiting. I just hope it is not "lost"


----------



## qusp

yeah, because who knows low long it would take to get an extra custom engraved one made up. I dont think i've got the stomach for waiting all over again


----------



## Nemosan

Quote: 





qusp said:


> hehe, i'll leave what I have to say there about the etys out  use your imagination..
> 
> anyone in this last shipment from last week receive anything yet? I dont get it, the 'express post' , feather-light slim has been overtaken by a regular USPS mail package sent on the same day and I havent seen anyone else from my batch post since its arrival either. the USPS express tracking is utterly useless, hasnt changed since before it was picked up last weekend
> 
> .


 
   
  I'm only a few places above you and I haven't received mine yet. My tracking status hasn't changed since I got the shipping email. It's still "Electronic Shipping Info Received". According to the USPS website, "Express Mail International" is suppose to deliver in 3-5 business days.


----------



## qusp

yep, same exact story here. it should have been here last week going by their estimates and its not a cheap service. its just not good enough IMO and without any other information, I have no idea of whether its lost or not. however, the fact you have the same experience, leads me to believe that the amp may not have been actually picked up at all when that email was sent.. oh well, I guess i'll just fade into the background again and wait the 2 weeks till it can be considered lost if that is what has happened.
   
  Justin should use UPS for international. same price, best tracking in the business apart from DHL


----------



## jc9394

If you still have "Electronic Shipping Info Received" that means USPS has not picked up the package yet.  Once you see "Processed through Sort Facility", your package is on it way to you.  FWIW, I received the shipping notice from Justin but did not receive the amp a week and a half later and I'm in US.


----------



## jc9394

Once you received the amp, the wait is worth it.  I'm still on my first charge and it is over 50 hours already, it is really a true portable amp that I don't mind carry it on subway.


----------



## nc8000

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> If you still have "Electronic Shipping Info Received" that means USPS has not picked up the package yet.  Once you see "Processed through Sort Facility", your package is on it way to you.  FWIW, I received the shipping notice from Justin but did not receive the amp a week and a half later and I'm in US.


 


 My TWag cable parcel still shows only "Electronic Shipping Info Received" despite it having been delivered to me 1½ months ago now. Same story for another parcel I received months ago, it never ever updated the info. Other parcels have updated shortly after being delivered and others again have actually show something like real time tracking.


----------



## WalkGood




----------



## Nebby

I now rename this the USPS impressions and review thread.
  Quote: 





walkgood said:


>


----------



## WalkGood

Might be easier if you were Currawong the OP 
   
  Back on topic guys or I'll just go back to listening to my Slim


----------



## qusp

NVM, i'll leave the few who have impressions to give to do so and try to forget about the whole thing. I have to say though at least for the moment your idea for a new thread title seems more appropriate for most peoples impression of the amp
   
  oh and BTW walkgood, I have to say I realy love your new avatar, very cool. reckon it would look even sweeter if you made an animated gif so it swayed ever so slightly


----------



## BaboonGuy

Quote: 





qusp said:


> NVM, i'll leave the few who have impressions to give to do so and try to forget about the whole thing. I have to say though at least for the moment your idea for a new thread title seems more appropriate for most peoples impression of the amp
> 
> oh and BTW walkgood, I have to say I realy love your new avatar, very cool. reckon it would look even sweeter if you made an animated gif so it swayed ever so slightly


 

 Personally his avatar reminds me too much of a noose, what do you guys think?


----------



## Kpalsm

I like my avatar best


----------



## pekingduck

Quote: 





kpalsm said:


> I like my avatar best


 

 Golden Axe is one of my all-time favs


----------



## WalkGood

Quote: 





qusp said:


> ... ... ... oh and BTW walkgood, I have to say I realy love your new avatar, very cool. reckon it would look even sweeter if you made an animated gif so it swayed ever so slightly


 

  
  Thanks, the noose was the first thing that came to mind when I noticed the site switched to huddler from vbulletin :/ I’ve seen other sites go there and noticed increased ads and a lot more hassle to do certain things, also other things broken lots of the time, currently after I post certain buttons don't function for me. Also posting that train required me to do HTML tags, although I did read it's supposed to function with ctrl c & ctrl v ...
   
  Rather than continue off topic, I’ll mention that I am enjoying my slim but I find the potentiometer range or sweet spot to be very small. I did post this earlier in the thread but no one seemed to reply or maybe not many have theirs yet. Hopefully I’ll do a write up on it like I did for the original pico/dac in another month or so, time permitting.
   
  BTW I don’t like moving avatars so I’m good with this one for now, thanks again …


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





> Personally his avatar reminds me too much of a noose, what do you guys think


 
  I _think_ that was the point!
   
  Back on topic:
  If anyone owns both the Arrow HE and the Slim I'd appreciate a comparative review.


----------



## qusp

Quote: 





walkgood said:


> Thanks, the noose was the first thing that came to mind when I noticed the site switched to huddler from vbulletin :/ I’ve seen other sites go there and noticed increased ads and a lot more hassle to do certain things, also other things broken lots of the time, currently after I post certain buttons don't function for me. Also posting that train required me to do HTML tags, although I did read it's supposed to function with ctrl c & ctrl v ...
> 
> Rather than continue off topic, I’ll mention that I am enjoying my slim but I find the potentiometer range or sweet spot to be very small. I did post this earlier in the thread but no one seemed to reply or maybe not many have theirs yet. Hopefully I’ll do a write up on it like I did for the original pico/dac in another month or so, time permitting.
> 
> BTW I don’t like moving avatars so I’m good with this one for now, thanks again …


 

 indeed, I also found it quite apt in more than one way, under normal circumstances its a good way to kill your wallet. the wysinwyg (what you see is not what you get) interface doesnt work at all, at least for pics, you can see it in the preview or composer where you put the post together, but then it doesnt show up and can hang the browser window
   
  but I digress, can you explain what you mean re the pot? I thought the whole point of it was to have a larger sweet spot and more control within it?? particularly lower volumes with highly sensitive headphones. that was the whole reason I bought it, while I loved my pico, I didnt regret moving on from it and small size while cool, is not a big thing for me. though it will give me a workable solution for going to places like hiking or riding that my regular fullsize portable rig cannot go.


----------



## h.rav

I don't find it hard to get the sweet spot. I just have to _turn the volume knob to around 1 o' clock_ and set it lower and higher from that position.
  There is only one thing that I dislike from the slim, the volume knob feels quite fragile.


----------



## Nebby

There are a LOT of steps with the attenuator, but the sensitivity is a touch on the high side. To somewhat put it into perspective, with my ER-4S I would say my typical listening volume range is between 11 and 2 o'clock on the knob. From 11 o'clock and down it's too quiet for my typical listening volume and above 2 o'clock it's too high.
   
  It's also important to note that this is NOT a deal breaker for me, as it really doesn't bug me, I just think it'd be nice if the sweet spot was expanded a bit for easier adjustment within the sweet spot. That being said, I love all the steps available to me in volume 
   
   
  Quote: 





qusp said:


> but I digress, can you explain what you mean re the pot? I thought the whole point of it was to have a larger sweet spot and more control within it?? particularly lower volumes with highly sensitive headphones. that was the whole reason I bought it, while I loved my pico, I didnt regret moving on from it and small size while cool, is not a big thing for me. though it will give me a workable solution for going to places like hiking or riding that my regular fullsize portable rig cannot go.


----------



## shigzeo

What number is the production up to now? Justin must be a very busy man.


----------



## Currawong

According to the orders PDF he has shipped up to #87.  
   
  qusp: I understand your frustration, but could you please keep your bitching to the one, more appropriate thread.


----------



## WalkGood

Quote: 





qusp said:


> ... ... but I digress, can you explain what you mean re the pot? I thought the whole point of it was to have a larger sweet spot and more control within it?? particularly lower volumes with highly sensitive headphones. that was the whole reason I bought it, while I loved my pico, I didnt regret moving on from it and small size while cool, is not a big thing for me. though it will give me a workable solution for going to places like hiking or riding that my regular fullsize portable rig cannot go.


 


 I had posted several posts early on in this thread about it, the listening range on the potentiometer is not very large, similar to what Nebby said above, only adding that after 1:30 you can start hearing hiss, which may or may not be important for others, but I can not listen that loud so it’s mute for me. My sweet spot is between 11:00 to 1:00 on the pots. Also the hiss get progressively louder as you turn up the pots.
  
  Quote: 





h.rav said:


> I don't find it hard to get the sweet spot. I just have to _turn the volume knob to around 1 o' clock_ and set it lower and higher from that position.
> There is only one thing that I dislike from the slim, the volume knob feels quite fragile.


 

 I don't either, all I said it's small conpared to the origional pico and other amps that I have tried ...


----------



## qusp

Quote: 





nebby said:


> There are a LOT of steps with the attenuator, but the sensitivity is a touch on the high side. To somewhat put it into perspective, with my ER-4S I would say my typical listening volume range is between 11 and 2 o'clock on the knob. From 11 o'clock and down it's too quiet for my typical listening volume and above 2 o'clock it's too high.
> 
> It's also important to note that this is NOT a deal breaker for me, as it really doesn't bug me, I just think it'd be nice if the sweet spot was expanded a bit for easier adjustment within the sweet spot. That being said, I love all the steps available to me in volume


 


 thanks for the impressions, I guess this is probably quite a personal thing as well as we can see from you and WG having similar but not the same remarks. so i'll see how I go with my ears and...well..'ears'
  
  Quote: 





currawong said:


> According to the orders PDF he has shipped up to #87.
> 
> qusp: I understand your frustration, but could you please keep your bitching to the one, more appropriate thread.


 

 fair call, no arrival today either, but I got it out of my system pretty good yesterday 

  
  Quote: 





walkgood said:


> I had posted several posts early on in this thread about it, the listening range on the potentiometer is not very large, similar to what Nebby said above, only adding that after 1:30 you can start hearing hiss, which may or may not be important for others, but I can not listen that loud so it’s mute for me. My sweet spot is between 11:00 to 1:00 on the pots. Also the hiss get progressively louder as you turn up the pots.
> 
> 
> I don't either, all I said it's small conpared to the origional pico and other amps that I have tried ...


 
   
  yeah I kinda wondered about whether having such a small knob might negate the positive of having more steps by making it more dinky to move through them and having the knob twist more quickly in your fingers due to the much smaller radius. 
   
  i'm probably overthinking that tho 
   
  thanks guys


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





> It's also important to note that this is NOT a deal breaker for me


 
   
  It would bug me enough that I'm glad you mentioned it. I like having a long usable "throw" on the volume.  (In other words a larger "sweet spot")


----------



## MayaTlab

I'm considering buying an amplifier to solve most players' bass roll-off with low impedance headphones (IEMs), and the pico slim attracted my attention due to its size. 
   
  But I'd also like to know if it would be able to drive slightly higher impedance full size portable cans such as the ATH ES10 / ATH ESW10 / Beyer T50p / Shure SRH840 as well out of an iPod line out or a Cowon headphone out. Do you think the pico slim would add some difference ? Or nothing ? I'm especially looking for improvements in terms of imaging, smoothness, refinements, bass cleanliness, dynamics, liquid sound. 
   
  If that's the case, would I be better off amping a Cowon HO or an iPod nano / touch LO ?
   
  EDIT : I'd like to precise that even though I could buy the iQube, I'd prefer the slim option since it would make me able to throw a DAP + amp in my jean pockets when at home - precisely when I'd prefer using those portable headphones instead of IEMs.


----------



## Currawong

I'm sure someone has some supra-aural ATs that will get a Slim, but I'll be trying mine with ESW10JPNs and others when I get it.


----------



## justin w.

Quote: 





hellenback said:


> It would bug me enough that I'm glad you mentioned it. I like having a long usable "throw" on the volume.  (In other words a larger "sweet spot")


 

 the whole point of the digital volume control was because regular analog pots had poor left/right matching at low volumes, and they were also limited in how quiet they could go.  so with many IEMs, you could be at a listening level even with the volume knob all the way down.  turn it up slightly and it could be very loud, and still have left/right imbalance.  this way you have far more range.  about every 1 degree of rotation is a 0.5dB change.  sure you may find that leaves a 20 degree range with a particular headphone/source setup, but its going to be compatible with all combinations you throw at it, and you're going to be able to hit every 0.5dB adjustment with slight turns of the knob.  the alternative would have been to have an infinitely rotating knob, which would have required resetting the volume to 0 at power off, and there was no room for any kind of display to indicate volume level.  I wanted to duplicate the experience of the analog pot, just with much more attenuation and way better channel matching.


----------



## Nebby

Now that you put it that way it makes complete sense. The fact that the ER-4S are 300ohms doesn't quite put them into the "typical" IEM impedance range so if I upgrade to other IEM's it's nice to know that the range provided by the slim will allow for the same adjustability 
  
  Quote: 





justin w. said:


> the whole point of the digital volume control was because regular analog pots had poor left/right matching at low volumes, and they were also limited in how quiet they could go.  so with many IEMs, you could be at a listening level even with the volume knob all the way down.  turn it up slightly and it could be very loud, and still have left/right imbalance.  this way you have far more range.  about every 1 degree of rotation is a 0.5dB change.  sure you may find that leaves a 20 degree range with a particular headphone/source setup, but its going to be compatible with all combinations you throw at it, and you're going to be able to hit every 0.5dB adjustment with slight turns of the knob.  the alternative would have been to have an infinitely rotating knob, which would have required resetting the volume to 0 at power off, and there was no room for any kind of display to indicate volume level.  I wanted to duplicate the experience of the analog pot, just with much more attenuation and way better channel matching.


----------



## nc8000

Quote: 





nebby said:


> Now that you put it that way it makes complete sense. The fact that the ER-4S are 300ohms doesn't quite put them into the "typical" IEM impedance range so if I upgrade to other IEM's it's nice to know that the range provided by the slim will allow for the same adjustability


 


 The ER4-S is only 100 ohms but still not your typical iem


----------



## Nebby

Good spot; I got the HD-800 and the ER-4S mixed up for some reason. Oops.
   
  Quote:


nc8000 said:


> The ER4-S is only 100 ohms but still not your typical iem


----------



## swbf2cheater

why on earth are the picos so expensive, good lord 350$ for the slim?  JEEZZZZ!


----------



## orand

Quote: 





swbf2cheater said:


> why on earth are the picos so expensive, good lord 350$ for the slim?  JEEZZZZ!


 

 If $350 sounds crazy then it will sound especially crazy that about 400 orders for the thing have already been placed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Full disclosure - I'm one of those 400


----------



## qusp

to be fair there is some pretty seriously new technology and excellent implementation of it inside that tiny case. remember it usually costs more to make something smaller


----------



## WalkGood

Quote: 





qusp said:


> ... ... ... yeah I kinda wondered about whether having such a small knob might negate the positive of having more steps by making it more dinky to move through them and having the knob twist more quickly in your fingers due to the much smaller radius.
> 
> i'm probably overthinking that tho
> 
> thanks guys


 


 The knob size has nothing to do with the range or size of the "sweet spot" I mention, I actually prefer a knob regardless of its size over a dial or other control. Think of a clock the distance or measurement  between 11:00 and 1:00 remain the same regardless of the pots knob size. Furthermore the knob size Justin used is just right, I like it.


----------



## qusp

yes the angle of rotation remains the same, but this is rolled between the fingers; it can travel further if you get my drift. like I said probably over-thinking it, I too prefer a knob regardless of size, ive just never used one that tiny before


----------



## swbf2cheater

I want one very badly, but not for nearly 400 smackers...thats crazy and it better sprout legs and clean my house as well as amp my headphones for that price :\


----------



## Nebby

You might be in the wrong hobby if that's what you think. If you're expecting a nearly $400 amp to sprout legs and clean your house, what do you expect from say...a $1000 headphone to do? Crazy is definitely in the eye of the beholder and you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but between the actual parts in the slim, the R&D involved, the labor, and the casework I'm surprised it's not priced higher.
   
  Quote: 





swbf2cheater said:


> I want one very badly, but not for nearly 400 smackers...thats crazy and it better sprout legs and clean my house as well as amp my headphones for that price :\


----------



## swbf2cheater

My experience with headphones and amps spans 2 decades or so, and in my experiences even the Ibassos are immensely overpriced.  R&D my butt, its damned expensive and better be freaking incredible for that price. 
   
  This isnt 1980, its 2010 and I expect electronics companies to keep up with the times.  Amps have not really changed much in the last decade or so, if they put that much into R&D as you say, it should be something special.  I'll bet my top dollar its not as good as a mustang or a hornet, both of equal price.  And if they are, only slightly and again still don't do anything special at all. 
   
  lol@R&D.  If by that you mean finding new parts and compiling them, sure I agree :3.


----------



## jamato8

The cases are expensive to manufacture. They are not off the shelf but milled from aluminum. With the work done for the milling and then the finish the case alone can be over 50 dollars in hard cost. I would like a 2 dollar hair cut but the last place I got that was in China and it was 1.25 with a 20 minute scalp massage but then that was in an area where many farmers have an annual income of around 420 dollars.


----------



## Nebby

Nvm, it's not worth the effort as you already have your mind made up.


----------



## qusp

High troller


----------



## boomana

swbf2cheater, I remember there was a whole thread devoted to answering your complaints about pricing last time you started up.  I suggest you revisit it rather than launching more whining, since the answers in that thread (your grado thread) apply even more to a one-man business, as headamp is.  I've been enjoying the pico slim for a few weeks now, and it's definitely worth it's price.


----------



## Nebby

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/484292/why-the-heck-are-the-grado-woodies-more-expensive-than-the-space-shuttle
   
  Found the thread
  Quote: 





boomana said:


> swbf2cheater, I remember there was a whole thread devoted to answering your complaints about pricing last time you started up.  I suggest you revisit it rather than launching more whining, since the answers in that thread (your grado thread) apply even more to a one-man business, as headamp is.  I've been enjoying the pico slim for a few weeks now, and it's definitely worth it's price.


----------



## swbf2cheater

People enjoyed the Yuin Pk1 for years, but that doesnt mean its not up to part with other models out there.  You misunderstand whining for suspicion of exaggeration.


----------



## boomana

I didn't know you complained about the PK1s as well.  I was referring to your Grado thread.  Now that I have the slim, I wish I hadn't sold my PK1s.  Wonderful little earbuds.  I'd like to hear them with the slim.


----------



## wuwhere

I came to this thread to read impressions and reviews from people who own the Slim. Oh well.


----------



## qusp

no, its very clearly whining


----------



## The Monkey

Quote: 





swbf2cheater said:


> I'll bet my top dollar its not as good as a mustang or a hornet, both of equal price.  And if they are, only slightly and again still don't do anything special at all.


 
   
  Ah, in other words, you are speaking directly out of your ass, given that you have not even heard the Pico Slim.  Do please try the amp and then share with us your decades of listening experience.  Lives hang in the balance.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote: 





boomana said:


> I didn't know you complained about the PK1s as well.  I was referring to your Grado thread.  Now that I have the slim, I wish I hadn't sold my PK1s.  Wonderful little earbuds.  I'd like to hear them with the slim.


 


 Hi Vicky, I do not have the PK1 but I do have the OK1. Let me know if you would like to listen to them. Cheers.


----------



## qusp

hey i've never denied posting in here too often, but if you had any background on whats going on here, you might have a clue why I said what I did. if you deny that there is a considerable amount of R&D in this amp or that there is new technology (for this field) in this amp, you really are in the wrong place. the amp went through a year of prototyping before it even got to the preorder phase. several different versions were loaned out to users here to garner feedback, even prototypes publicly on show at head-fi meets for the same purpose. if thats not R&D, I dont know what is. perhaps have a clue before joining in
   
  I never, not even once, posted in here just looking for a reaction. which is clearly what old mate was doing and what he seems to have a habit of doing. because he doesnt own an amp and doesnt really have any headphones that would be suitable for this amp. I might meet the definition of posting in here too often while impatiently waiting for my slim, no qualms at admitting that, nor did I at the time.
   
  ever own any grados or PK! I wonder?? I doubt it
   
  and by high I didnt mean a large amount
   
  did you just look up the definition of trolling on the interweb or something and decided to see how many times you could use it in a post?


----------



## Vitor Teixeira

Hi there,
   
  I've heard a lot about the AT-ESW9 not need an amp, but anyone here have tried it with the Pico Slim?


----------



## qusp

well the sensitivity certainly falls within range, people say IEMs dont need an amp as well


----------



## shigzeo

Got to lend my support to Qusp here. He's not been trolling at all. He is a very actively interested customer and a keen businessman. Keep the comments, impressions, concerns coming mate!


----------



## boomana

How 'bout we get this thread on topic?


----------



## jamato8

You have had the amp for a while. Any further thoughts on what you are hearing?


----------



## shigzeo

I am interested in hearing more impressions on the geometric volume control; i.e., at what point in the thing is the lowest audible volume, and do low volumes and mid volumes provide similarly flat frequency responses?


----------



## Iron_Dreamer

The lowest point of audible volume will depend greatly on both the headphones used, and the voltage output level of the source in question.  So, hooking up an iPod and a Beyer T1 will result in a very different usable section of the volume knob than would hooking up a Benchmark DAC1 and a Shure SE530.  And of course, the volume level of the recording itself will have a great impact.
   
  Once you have attained listenable volume, the volume ramps up in a very smooth and linear fashion.  I hear no difference in tonality, frequency response, etc, regardless of the position of the volume knob.  This is not like an old-fashioned potentiometer, in that the sound quality does NOT vary with the position of the volume knob; only the volume itself does.
   
  The bottom line is that this volume control is a huge advancement over what was previously available.  It gets you the sound quality and channel balance advantages of stepped attenuators, with the convenience of a volume pot, all in a package much smaller than any stepper or high quality potentiometer have ever been able to fit into.


----------



## shigzeo

Cheers - that is helpful. Now for the harder question: how does low end bass hold up with multiple armature earphones such as the JH13Pro? I don't mean like, "oh gawd, it's beautiful"; I mean, "where a typical hard-to-drive ba earphone causes distorted frequency response in something like an iPod, especially where the crossovers effect the output, does the signal remain clear, stable, and full?" cheers.


----------



## Iron_Dreamer

Well, I was already in love with the sound of the JH13 from the original Pico, and the Slim did nothing to mess that up.  There is definitely nothing I can complain about in regards to bass.  It is deep, quick, full, and powerful; true to the nature of the JH13.  If it can handle the bass of both Infected Mushroom and a well-recorded pipe organ, it's pretty good in my book


----------



## qusp

Quote: 





shigzeo said:


> Got to lend my support to Qusp here. He's not been trolling at all. He is a very actively interested customer and a keen businessman. Keep the comments, impressions, concerns coming mate!


 

 thanks buddy, yeah I wouldnt have thought I was trolling either.
   
  i'm also pretty keen to have access to an amp that I dont have to always be so mindful of the last time I charged it. the D10 meets this criteria, but my main portable amps like the lisa and FiQ while awesome amps, do pay the penalty for the power they dish up and both use NIMH batteries that can tend to go off reasonably quickly even if you always try to keep charge in them.
   
  the slim should be in another league altogether


----------



## shigzeo

Iron - do you ever use your JH13Pro ampless? I do quite often, but I'll admit to preferring it amped because of above mentioned reactions. That said, it still sounds great even without a great output stage, but my FitEar 333 for one, can be douzy.


----------



## Iron_Dreamer

The only time I use it ampless is with the Sansa Clip+, as an easily portable system that fits in a single small pouch.  It sounds great for being as tiny as it is, but I make no illusions about it sounding as good as a dedicated system with an amp.  I haven't really analyzed or compared the differences, because the Clip+ is very convenient, and sounds good enough for the casual situations in which I use it.  If sound quality is the priority over maximum portability, I use my iRiver's line out to the Slim.


----------



## Vitor Teixeira

Well, #77 landed at last.
  It's been told a thousand times before, but i can't help it, this "thing" is so, so tiny! 
  I'm amazed, it's really a work of art of Mr. Justin.
  (worth every hour of waiting)
   
  Just been listening for a while now, (Stan Getz - Finest Hour) with iPod Touch + Slim + Yuin PK1 and it's a very good combination, in my modest opinion,
  i've never heard anything with such clarity.
  This is really my first audiophile orgasm.


----------



## PiresMachine

Quote: 





vitor teixeira said:


> Well, #77 landed at last.
> It's been told a thousand times before, but i can't help it, this "thing" is so, so tiny!
> I'm amazed, it's really a work of art of Mr. Justin.
> (worth every hour of waiting)
> ...


 

 Great!


----------



## Jigglybootch

Quote: 





iron_dreamer said:


> Well, I was already in love with the sound of the JH13 from the original Pico, and the Slim did nothing to mess that up.  There is definitely nothing I can complain about in regards to bass.  It is deep, quick, full, and powerful; true to the nature of the JH13.  If it can handle the bass of both Infected Mushroom and a well-recorded pipe organ, it's pretty good in my book


 


 How does the Slim do with your other cans?


----------



## qusp

PiresMachine, the word you are searching for is 'Eargasm'


----------



## Edwood

Been enjoying my Pico Slim.   Ditto on the praises here.  Love the precision of the volume controller, love the tiny size.
   
  Have a few quibbles.  And I'm nit picking here.
   
  The gain curve is a bit too steep at the end.  Would've preferred it were a little more linear.  Even with extremely efficient phones like my Westone ES3X, most of the initial volume control is pretty useless.  It's nice to be able to have perfectly balanced sound at nearly zero, but who really listens to music for extended periods at such an extremely low level in which you can only hear if you in a very very very very quiet room?  (yes, I do enjoy listening to music at 3am with nearly no ambient noise).
   
  So, with larger cans, I find very little headroom with the top end, and if you have a very quiet source, the volume jumps suddenly at the high end around 10 o'clock on the knob.  Is it just me or does the gain seem like it's auto adjusting with different loads, there seems to be little or no difference in volume control levels with different cans?
   
  The new CNC machined body is great and feels sturdy, but the rest of the Pico Slim feels fragile.  The tiny fluted knob feels and works great, but the wobbly plastic post of the pot inside does not inspire confidence.  Really feels like it would be pretty easy to snap off if careless.  The plastic 3.5mm jacks don't feel as sturdy as the metal ones used in the original Pico.  But they aren't wobbly.
   
  The leather case is a nice touch, but in day to day use, is a little precarious.  While it looks and feels nice, it really only protects the top and bottom surfaces (and protects whatever portable player you may be resting the Slim on).  The weakest point, the knob, is completely exposed, and all four corners are exposed.  It will not help with most serious drops onto a hard surface, unless you are really lucky.  Also, it gets much looser in fit over time, and when you're plugging in the rear 3.5mm jack or pulling out the front 3.5mm headphone jack, it keeps pulling the Slim out of it's case, so you have to keep holding onto the front and back sides.  Some kind of retaining strap on the front would solve this problem, but would add a snap or velcro that could increase the thickness of the case, and potentially add scratching parts.
   
  All in all, the tiny size and precise function more than make of for these minor quibblings.  The Pico Slim is a portable amp that makes adding to any portable "stack" an easy decision, as it adds to little in mass and volume.  Kind of like my Sansa Clip+.  Even though I carry my HifiMan HM-801 with me in my EDC bag/murse  everywhere I go, I carry these two tiny things, because it really adds so little to my daily load, that I don't notice that they're there until I need them.
   
  -Ed


----------



## Iron_Dreamer

Quote: 





jigglybootch said:


> How does the Slim do with your other cans?


 

 I've only otherwise used it with the Shure SRH-840, which it improves the sound of markedly over the original Pico.  The bass is tighter, the mids a bit cleaner, the soundstage more precise, and the highs more natural.  Granted, the last two apply to the JH13 as well, but I heard little difference in the mids/bass with the JH13.  The SRH-840, on the other hand, is improved across the board.  I was actually rather shocked that the difference was so noticeable.
   
  My other two headphones...well the KSC75 is pretty much relegated to use with my original Sansa Clip for walking/hiking, and the HD201, well I can't remember the last time I used it.  Always good to have an extra set of cans around, though


----------



## Jaunty

No more impressions yet? I thought loads more had been sent out a while ago.


----------



## OPTiK

Quote: 





jaunty said:


> No more impressions yet? I thought loads more had been sent out a while ago.


 

 The pdf file says only up to 88 has been sent out...ouch.


----------



## Region2

Quote: 





optik said:


> The pdf file says only up to 88 has been sent out...ouch.


 

 In the preorder thread some people like Greatdane and company have gotten their shipment notices so it's probably 10 or so more people further down.  The sheet was last updated around the 14th, if I recall correctly.


----------



## Nemosan

Woo hoo! Just got my Pico Slim. It arrived in HK this morning so I wasn't expecting it to reach my office by the afternoon. I initally ordered black, and later asked Justin to change to silver. But, I still got the black version. Nevermind.
   
  Its small, and beautifully made. The knob does feel a little too fragile. Sound impressions to follow after I've done some burn-in.
   
  How long have others burned-in the Pico slim?


----------



## charlie0904

I really hope I get mine tomorrow.


----------



## qusp

i've given up hoping for mine to be here each day now. 3 weeks and counting since the 'ship' date. if it only shipped a few days ago which seems likely, maybe another week. I dunno, but at least they are starting to trickle in around the place from my batch.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





nemosan said:


> Woo hoo! Just got my Pico Slim. It arrived in HK this morning so I wasn't expecting it to reach my office by the afternoon. I initally ordered black, and later asked Justin to change to silver. But, I still got the black version. Nevermind.
> 
> Its small, and beautifully made. The knob does feel a little too fragile. Sound impressions to follow after I've done some burn-in.
> 
> How long have others burned-in the Pico slim?


 

 I did not notice any difference during the first 100 hours, it seems like it does not need burn in at all.


----------



## qusp

not too many caps in the signal path so burn in should be minimal. ok, no more sad sack, its really excellent that more of these are out in the wild. I AM excited, but trying to keep it under control.
   
  so some have reported the JACK is not so solid, or is it just that its not metal so doesnt SEEM solid?


----------



## Nemosan

A word of warning. My current setup is an iPhone3GS->RSA LOD->RSA Mustang P-51->Westone UM3X. When I am travelling and my iPhone switches between 3G <-> 2G, it generates a lot of interference. Maybe something to do with the frequency change/base station handoff etc. When this happens my Mustang picks up this noise and creates a buzzing sound which is generally no louder than my usual listening volume. However, with the Pico Slim, the buzzing noise is loud enough to cause serious pain in the ears. On my way home I had to turn the phone to airplane mode to prevent damaging my ears. If anyone is planning to pair their Slim with a phone, please take this into consideration.
   
  Like others have mentioned, the volume is only usable starting from around 10 o'clock. My sweet spot is around 1 o'clock. The volume control is amazing and the channel balance and frequency response doesn't seem to change at any volume. A great innovative design by Justin.
   
  As for initial audio impressions, its doesn't have the bass presence of the Mustang. Sound seems more laid back, and not as punchy as the Mustang. However that might be because my ears have got used to the RSA sound signature. I will give more impressions as I have adjusted to the Slim's sound.


----------



## Nemosan

Quote: 





qusp said:


> not too many caps in the signal path so burn in should be minimal. ok, no more sad sack, its really excellent that more of these are out in the wild. I AM excited, but trying to keep it under control.
> 
> so some have reported the JACK is not so solid, or is it just that its not metal so doesnt SEEM solid?


 

 The outer ring of the jack looks plastic, but I don't think that makes it any less sturdy. For both jacks, the plugs go in easily about 80% of the way, then it requires a not insignificant push for the rest. It kind of clicks into place. Maybe the jacks are just new and will loosen over time.


----------



## qusp

cool, well that could be just as much about the manufacturing tolerances of the mini plug you are using (which type?) some connectors like the viablue for example are larger than they should be and wont work at all in some headphone jacks and inputs. I had one pull the ground ring in my D10 straight out when i removed the plug, but other viablues are just a touch firm.


----------



## Nemosan

Quote: 





qusp said:


> cool, well that could be just as much about the manufacturing tolerances of the mini plug you are using (which type?) some connectors like the viablue for example are larger than they should be and wont work at all in some headphone jacks and inputs. I had one pull the ground ring in my D10 straight out when i removed the plug, but other viablues are just a touch firm.


 

 I'm using the RSA iphone LOD with the right angled plug for the input to the Slim. It looks identical to the whiplash iphone LOD that Headamp is selling with the Pico Slim. My Westone UM3X also requires a push to click it into place, so I believe its the jack rather than the plugs that are a tad too tight.


----------



## qusp

yeah except its SPC right? OK looks like it wil be trial and error to find which suits best, I have just about every decent mini known to man here so i'll find it. ive already got one in mind though and it should fit nicely, the new oyaide rhodium over silver mini is teh sex


----------



## Nemosan

Quote: 





qusp said:


> yeah except its SPC right? OK looks like it wil be trial and error to find which suits best, I have just about every decent mini known to man here so i'll find it. ive already got one in mind though and it should fit nicely, the new oyaide rhodium over silver mini is teh sex


 

 You mean the mini plug is SPC? No, its gold plated. I might contact you in future when you make a LOD cable suitable for the Slim. RSA's military spec wire LOD cable is just far too stiff. I'm afraid if I flex it any more the cable will break.


----------



## qusp

no, the wire is spc afaik. milspec usually is.


----------



## Edwood

Quote: 





qusp said:


> not too many caps in the signal path so burn in should be minimal. ok, no more sad sack, its really excellent that more of these are out in the wild. I AM excited, but trying to keep it under control.
> 
> so some have reported the JACK is not so solid, or is it just that its not metal so doesnt SEEM solid?


 

 It's solid, it just doesn't have that "snap in" feeling that metal ones do.  When it's in the leather case, because the slim is so small and light, it slides around as you try to plug things in while holding onto the leather case, so that might add to the insecure feeling.  Also a lot of these feelings come from the fact that the Slim is so much smaller and lighter in weight than the original Pico.
   
  Now the volume control pot on the other hand....


----------



## justin w.

Quote: 





qusp said:


> cool, well that could be just as much about the manufacturing tolerances of the mini plug you are using (which type?) some connectors like the viablue for example are larger than they should be and wont work at all in some headphone jacks and inputs. I had one pull the ground ring in my D10 straight out when i removed the plug, but other viablues are just a touch firm.


 

 i modified every 3.5mm jack by hand because of those plugs.  It seems the more expensive or 'high end' a plug the more it strays from standard toleraces.  They seem to have oversized tips and unchamfered edges that cause them to catch on certain jack designs.  with the problem you mentioned, it helps to rotate the plug as you remove it.  with any of those oversizied plugs I'd also recommend plugging/unplugging any of them into something you don't care about around 100 times before using them


----------



## qusp

I found that the best way to avoid that problem I mentioned was to never use that connector again and recommend any of my customers do the same  but yeah sure your way works eventually. not a big fan of it anyway, only good thing about it is the strain relief IMO. such crappy plastic dielectric for such a 'high end' plug. I tested with the oyaide and its perfect; how did I test it I hear you say?? well mine finally just rocked up!!
   
   

   
  more later


----------



## qusp

ahh yes, I remember those mids


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I've had issues with fit on some Canare F12 plugs too.


----------



## K3cT

I've finally heard the Pico Slim and overall impression is a positive one. Apart from a slight roughness in the upper mid area, the Slim is an improvement from the older Pico with a slightly more open and transparent sound. The new volume control is also very fine other than the rather flimsy knob. Most importantly, I really like how tiny the whole package is.


----------



## qusp

yes with only a brief listen using modded H132CF->highly modified D10->slim->JH13, I can say that while it doesnt beat out my FiQ, or Lisa III, for its size its a little dynamo and the soundstage is really quite something. the volume knob as reported, is rather flimsy feeling, but the action is quite good and although I dont know what headphones could possibly use the first 30% of the volume range the matching is awesomely good and reminds me of my buffalo using volumite (another digital control, but using different technique)

 compared to FiQ, the portable I have been using most often lately, the highs are just a touch more congested and missing the last bit of extension. this could also be burn-in related although i'm not a big believer, especially considering how few components there are in the signal. transient speed is excellent, but the trailing edge and decay isnt quite there with FiQ. transparency is also very good. bass is tight, but lacking a touch of slam compared to the bigger amp, but that is to be expected given the amount of current the beast has on tap.
 a real toe tapper of an amp though and I just keep going back to the size.

 more impressions once I get my head around it a bit more and also find what wires work best, currently using a kimber stranded silver mini2mini. will test it out using buffalo II as source.

 the turn on thump is a worry though, I will have to put it on the meter to see how much DC is in that transient.

 its soo sexy though that I can forgive these minor niggles


----------



## nattonrice

Lol how'd I guess you'd beat me here   =P
   
  Mine arrived!
  Fantastic no-bull packaging, awesome design, and great little case.
  Oh it also sounds pretty amazing too.
  Something about perfect channel balance through IEMs is really wicked.
   
  Thanks Justin!
  (pcb and dact arrived safe and sound as well, thanks)


----------



## animalsrush

Is the Pico Slim power adapter 120-240 v or just 120 v for US customers. Just curious. I am hoping it is 120 -240v


----------



## Nebby

Label on mine says 100V - 240V
  
  Quote: 





animalsrush said:


> Is the Pico Slim power adapter 120-240 v or just 120 v for US customers. Just curious. I am hoping it is 120 -240v


----------



## animalsrush

Quote: 





nebby said:


> Label on mine says 100V - 240V


 

 Thanks much Nebby ..


----------



## Hotdoggie

I finally received my Pico Slim back on 2 June.
   
  After spending a little bit of time with mine for the past week, I would like to share some of my impressions of the unit.
   
  The unit is very small (as expected), and is very nicely built. It feels very solid in my hand. The volume knob seems to be of a lesser quality, but I don’t think it will break too easily. Plus, mine has lifetime warranty. So, I am not worried about it. Like a few others have reported, mine also had one noticeable scratch on it (along with some really fine lines running along the length of the unit). As I had posted in an earlier post, I suggested using a product called Cape Cod Polishing Cloth to remove the scratch. Well, that’s exactly what I did.
   
  Before.

   
   
  After.

   
  As you can see, the scratch is completely gone, and all it took was two to three minutes of rubbing and buffing. If scratches on the unit bother you, I strongly suggest using Cape Cod Polishing Cloth to remove them (But do so at your own risk, since I do not know how well the words on the unit are printed (?). So, please be careful not to rub on the printings too much.). I noticed the part where I had polished is looking better than the rest of the body, because the fine lines that I had mentioned earlier are pretty much gone along with the scratch. When I have time, I am going to polish the entire unit.
   
  The rig that I use with the Pico Slim is the iPod Touch 3G through LOD (Null Audio’s Chromeline), and the JH13 with 64” TWag Elite cable. When comparing to just iPod Touch 3G hp out, the sound is warmer and the bass is punchier, cleaner, and deeper. If I have to quantify it, I would say around 5% more in each category. When comparing to iBasso D3 Python (DAC/Amp combo), I would say the sound too is a ted warmer, and the bass is punchier, cleaner, and deeper. However, the increase is dropped to about 3% or so. As for the highs and the mids, I would say there is not that much of a difference between the Slim and the D3 (the D3’s high is just a bit brighter, but not by much).
   
  One thing that worried me was the reported RF issue with the Slim. Coming from the D3, it was one issue that REALLY bothered me. Well, I am happy to report that the RF issue with my Slim does not bother me at all. So far, I have only gotten buzzing sounds a handful of times, but the buzzing volume is much lower than the music volume. The D3, on the other hand, is a different story. The buzzing sound is so loud that I cannot listen to it without first turning off my BlackBerry Curve.
   
  What I do not like about the Slim is the thump you get when you turn it on, and the noise you get when you turn the unit off. Nevertheless, the Slim more than makes up for these annoyances in other areas: great channel balance/detail even at low volumes and great digital volume control.
   
  To give people some idea, my listening volume range on the Slim is between 10:00 and 11:30 (11:00 being my usual setting)—anything outside of that range is either too low or too high. For example, 12:00 is too loud for me even with CDs that I consider to be “quiet” ones. By the way, I can hear sounds beginning at the 07:00 position. For me, however, practical listening volume does not start until the 10:00 mark. When I listen straight out of the iPod Touch 3G’s hp out, my range is between 3 to 5 clicks from zero. For most albums, 4 clicks is my normal listening volume.
   
  In conclusion, I think the Pico Slim is very enjoyable, not to mention extremely portable. As time pass, I think I will be able to forget about the painful wait time and the below par communication from Justin. Don’t get me wrong though, I do understand Justin is a one-man band. Anyway, if I buy something from Justin again in the future, I will know exactly what to expect communication-wise.


----------



## Currawong

Thanks qusp and Hotdoggie for the great write-ups and info.  I've updated my first post and fixed the links to point to the posts in the new forum.


----------



## qusp

no problem, its been neglected a bit this week as i've been working on building my home rig and portabuffalo. but once ive had a bit more head time i'll do a bit more detailed review, perhaps with a more fair comparison, straight out of the modded D10 HP out and sabre LO to test resolving power. JH3a seems to have stolen the show a bit, or have there just not been any more arrivals?


----------



## Sceptre

Now that Qusp has his unit, I'm sure you are all missing his 'where's mine' rants.
   
  I'll keep you need for these messages satisfied.  I've been calm and quiet but now . . .
   
  WHERE'S MINE?  It's been ages since I ordered and ages since you said it was shipped.  I only live halfway around the world and even the milkman gets here before 7am everyday.  Could a tracking number be sent? Could other customers who have reported on how good this amp is hold back on the gushing thoughts until mine arrives?
   
  Regards (tongue in cheek)
   
  Sceptre


----------



## qusp

hmm, not sure what half way around the world has to do with it these days, but sure i've still got a few more rants in me if they are missed??  it is fairly clear that the amp was not shipped until 3 weeks after the shipping notice  see there you go thats about all i've got in me. disappointed?? maybe i'll have another go tomorrow


----------



## Currawong

Impressions rather than shipping rants would certainly be appreciated, now I've edited the thread title as I have.


----------



## qusp

lol, the post, although real info was more joke than anything, I wont be back tomorrow with another rant  just wired up the transformers in my dac, so have a proper single ended output as well as the balanced (rather than just half the balanced out referenced to ground), so can give more impressions there. I really dont use my DIYMOD much anymore, so iphone, D10 and sabre will have to do. sabre isnt really relevant to normal usage, but will help give some idea of resolving power. will get to it asap as there doesnt seem to be too many people willing to give impressions


----------



## Vitor Teixeira

Quote Hotdoggie:

 "To give people some idea, *my listening volume range on the Slim is between 10:00 and 11:30 (11:00 being my usual setting)*—anything outside of that range is either too low or too high. For example, *12:00 is too loud for me even with CDs that I consider to be “quiet” ones*. By the way, I can hear sounds beginning at the 07:00 position. For me, however, practical listening volume does not start until the 10:00 mark. When I listen straight out of the iPod Touch 3G’s hp out, my range is between 3 to 5 clicks from zero. For most albums, 4 clicks is my normal listening volume."
   
   
  Well, i must say im a bit intrigued here... is it "normal" that i only hear any sound around 12:00 on the volume knob?
*(was this question so dumb as it seems?)*
  Source: iPod Touch and almost all the library is ALAC or 320 kbps.


----------



## justin w.

the pico slim attenuates to -110dB.  a typical volume pot will start around -60, -70dB.  this additional attenuation range may be "silent" depending on your source & headphone combo.  if you are using a very high output source, and a very sensitive headphone, and you want to listen at a quiet level...you can do it with the pico slim.  with an analog pot, it would be too loud as soon as you start to move the knob
  
  Quote: 





vitor teixeira said:


> Quote Hotdoggie:
> 
> "To give people some idea, *my listening volume range on the Slim is between 10:00 and 11:30 (11:00 being my usual setting)*—anything outside of that range is either too low or too high. For example, *12:00 is too loud for me even with CDs that I consider to be “quiet” ones*. By the way, I can hear sounds beginning at the 07:00 position. For me, however, practical listening volume does not start until the 10:00 mark. When I listen straight out of the iPod Touch 3G’s hp out, my range is between 3 to 5 clicks from zero. For most albums, 4 clicks is my normal listening volume."
> 
> ...


----------



## Hotdoggie

Quote: 





vitor teixeira said:


> Quote Hotdoggie:
> 
> "To give people some idea, *my listening volume range on the Slim is between 10:00 and 11:30 (11:00 being my usual setting)*—anything outside of that range is either too low or too high. For example, *12:00 is too loud for me even with CDs that I consider to be “quiet” ones*. By the way, I can hear sounds beginning at the 07:00 position. For me, however, practical listening volume does not start until the 10:00 mark. When I listen straight out of the iPod Touch 3G’s hp out, my range is between 3 to 5 clicks from zero. For most albums, 4 clicks is my normal listening volume."
> 
> ...


 

 1. What headphones are you using? Besides my JH13, I also have IE8, SE530 and IE-30. However, I have not paired them with the Slim yet, so I don't know if they would require a higher volume setting then the JH13s.
  2. When you listen to your iPod Touch (hp out), what is your most used (default) volume setting for most albums?
  3. Is your iPod Touch's volume limit turned on? (mine is off)


----------



## Vitor Teixeira

Quote: 





hotdoggie said:


> 1. What headphones are you using? Besides my JH13, I also have IE8, SE530 and IE-30. However, I have not paired them with the Slim yet, so I don't know if they would require a higher volume setting then the JH13s.
> 2. When you listen to your iPod Touch (hp out), what is your most used (default) volume setting for most albums?
> 3. Is your iPod Touch's volume limit turned on? (mine is off)


 
   
  1. I used it with Klipsch X10 and Yuin PK 1
  2. Around 02:00
  3. On and off doesn't make any difference


----------



## Hotdoggie

1. Sorry, I don't have either of those.
  2. Wow, that's even lower than my listening volume on the Touch (BTW, which gen Touch are you using? I still have my 1st gen, but not the 2nd gen).
   
  I guess it really just comes down to the pairing of your source, headphones, cables, etc. Just curious, what's the highest setting that you find comfortable listening to on your Slim?
  Quote: 





vitor teixeira said:


> 1. I used it with Klipsch X10 and Yuin PK 1
> 2. Around 02:00
> 3. On and off doesn't make any difference


----------



## Nebby

I listened to my ipod + slim + er-4s combo on my flight to California and it was quite an enjoyable experience.


----------



## Vitor Teixeira

Quote: 





hotdoggie said:


> 1. Sorry, I don't have either of those.
> 2. Wow, that's even lower than my listening volume on the Touch (BTW, which gen Touch are you using? I still have my 1st gen, but not the 2nd gen).
> 
> I guess it really just comes down to the pairing of your source, headphones, cables, etc. Just curious, what's the highest setting that you find comfortable listening to on your Slim?


 

 It's 14:00, not 02:00. I'm using iPod Touch 2G.


----------



## Hotdoggie

Actually, I meant when you listen to your iPod Touch directly (just directly from your Touch, no amp.). For example, 1 click from zero volume or 2, 3, 4 on the volume slider.
  Quote: 





vitor teixeira said:


> It's 14:00, not 02:00. I'm using iPod Touch 2G.


----------



## Vitor Teixeira

Quote: 





hotdoggie said:


> Actually, I meant when you listen to your iPod Touch directly (just directly from your Touch, no amp.). For example, 1 click from zero volume or 2, 3, 4 on the volume slider.


 

 Maybe 13, 14 clicks from zero.


----------



## qusp

Quote: 





hotdoggie said:


> 1. Sorry, I don't have either of those.
> 2. Wow, that's even lower than my listening volume on the Touch (BTW, which gen Touch are you using? I still have my 1st gen, but not the 2nd gen).
> 
> I guess it really just comes down to the pairing of your source, headphones, *cables*, etc. Just curious, what's the highest setting that you find comfortable listening to on your Slim?


 

 I know you were probably just being thorough there, but if cables used caused ANY TYPE of volume change over such a short distance hell even longish distance, there is something wrong. I tend to listen mainly around 12-12.30 with jh13 out of D10, but its output from the LO is hotter than ipod


----------



## Nebby

Didn't you know that you need 0 gauge cable to have the entire signal get through? Anything less is simply....unacceptable


----------



## mrarroyo

You actually need 0000 wire! ===> http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm


----------



## Hotdoggie

Ah, so you do listen to your headphones quite a bit louder than I do. I guess our difference in listening volume on our Slims makes sense now.
  
  Quote: 





vitor teixeira said:


> Maybe 13, 14 clicks from zero.


 


 Yeah, you are right.
  
  Quote: 





qusp said:


> I know *you were probably just being thorough there*, but if cables used caused ANY TYPE of volume change over such a short distance hell even longish distance, there is something wrong. I tend to listen mainly around 12-12.30 with jh13 out of D10, but its output from the LO is hotter than ipod


----------



## vpivinylspinner

I never really took much time to comment on the Slim after receiving it so I guess I can add a few pics and thoughts.
   
  I have been using my Slim almost daily for a few months now.  I primarily use it for the commute with the Nano and on flights.  I have also found that pairing it with the Pico DAC out of the computer or iPad makes a fantastic little desktop system.  
   
  My main listening sessions are the 45 minutes to and from work with a Nano full of AIFF music, Whiplash LOD, Slim and either JH13s or UE11s.  
   

   
  I have historically had a lot of trouble with portable amps during this commute in a very rich RF environment.  The amps ranged from unusable to periodically annoying.  The Slim has zero of the stray RF problems.  I have on rare occasions gotten the cellular chatter when receiving an e-mail on the BB right next to the amp.  As far as portable amps go this one provides the most interference rejection which makes it a winner in my book right out of the box.
   
  I have heard most of the big name portables currently on the market and certainly have my favorites.  I used to own the ALO Rx and thought it sounded very good, in a few areas just as good or better than the Slim.  Overall I prefer the sound quality of the Slim and the better volume control and its much greater RF Rejection made it a clear winner so the Rx is gone.
   
  I have also used the Slim a bit in my home office with the ATH ESW9s as they make a nice little package.  The AT go well straight out of an iPod/iPad so there is not really a dramatic upgrade in sound quality when they are amped.  I typically notice problems with amps through these more than obvious upgrades to the sound.  When comparing to straight out of the iPod I primarily notice tighter bass and maybe a bit more texture in vocals and strings.
   

   
  I really like the Slim in my portable set up but think it really shines when connected to the Pico DAC.  This combo is very, very good in my opinion and has become my constant travel companion.  Such a small package that can outdo much larger systems that I have heard.
   

   
  Out of either the iPad or the big computers this combination seems to really gel and makes some fantastic music.  I find that the better you feed the Slim it just keeps getting better. While I preferred the new JH Audio JH-3A, which sounded fantastic, I am not going crazy waiting for mine as I am perfectly happy with the Slim and the plain old JH-13s.


----------



## Hotdoggie

I was going to buy the JH-3A for sure because of the impressions from all those who had heard it at CanJam. Your statement, however, makes me think that the JH-3A may not be as ground breaking as I thought it is going to be. Can you elaborate a bit more on your impressions of the JH-3A vs the Slim? For example, I thought the soundstage will be much bigger with the JH-3A.
  
  Quote: 





vpivinylspinner said:


> Out of either the iPad or the big computers this combination seems to really gel and makes some fantastic music.  I find that the better you feed the Slim it just keeps getting better. *While I preferred the new JH Audio JH-3A, which sounded fantastic, I am not going crazy waiting for mine as I am perfectly happy with the Slim and the plain old JH-13s. *


----------



## vpivinylspinner

As I said in the part you highlighted, I bought a JH-3A as it really is the ultimate way to listen to the JH series.  My statement was that the Slim is good enough that the wait for the JH-3A that the wait will not be too painful for the JH-3A to show up.
   
  The JH-3A is the best I have heard the JH series, though it was also the first time I heard the JH-16s as well so it was not a direct comparison.  The difference is obvious between the two setups but not that dramatic.  I definitely prefer the JH-3A for desktop use but will continue using the JH-13/Slim combo for all portable use.


----------



## Iron_Dreamer

If you don't mind always having to use the JH3A with your 13's/16's then it is certainly the way to go.  Amazing sound, with fully customizable bass on-the-fly make it the ultimate portable listening solution, once it comes out.
   
  The Pico Slim still has a place, if you want a smaller amp, and/or would like a standard 13 or 16 which can be used straight out of any headphone jack if needed, without an amp.
   
  If I were to get a JH3A system, I'd get it with a set of 16's, but keep my Pico Slim/13 rig for times when the larger JH3A box just wouldn't be convenient.


----------



## Currawong

My Slim has finally arrived. I can't believe how small it is. I'm not going to post anything like detailed impressions until I've had a play for a while and gone through some of my music.  My bass-bloat TF10s seem at least a bit more under control though than straight out of my 3GS playing "Cicadas" by the Coyboy Junkies, which has a deep bass beat. The TWAG LOD seems at least a bit brighter than the Oyaide (FiiO) LOD as well (silver vs copper?).  My complete package: iPhone 3GS, TWAG LOD, Pico Slim, Null Audio cable and TF10s has removed much of the harshness that I disliked playing music on the go, so that's a good thing.  
   
  Still can't believe how damn small it is.
   
  Pictures:
   
  Next to an iPhone 3GS. 

   
  The Oyaide/FiiO LOD looks positively huge compared to the Slim. It's the same thickness as the Neutrik plug on the Whiplash LOD.


----------



## AudioDelite

I just received this second-hand from another Head-Fi'er, and oh my god this headphone amp is VERY portable!
   
  During my first 2 hours of listening, I can definitely notice a wider soundstage (I listen to lots of trance). The volume knob is very accurate, and I don't mind the quality of it at all, it actually is pretty solid IMO.
   
  I'll post more impressions when I receive my JH-16 and compare it amp/ampless.
   
  Overall, I'll be using a tesa powerstrip to match it with my iAudio 9, and it will truly be my ultimate portable rig


----------



## mythless

The Pico Slim is a very, very nice amp.  They pair well with the RE0 and HF-2.  I am currently waiting for a LOD.  But, regardless the amp brings lots of life into the RE0.  My God, more bass (quantity too), more detail, more lush and full sound.  Though, the soundstage on the RE0 is still quite narrow, it's quite a significant improvement over an umamped RE0.  It even gives the RE0 a warm signature, haha David Brubeck's piano jazz is so smooth.  I am very happy and content.


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





mythless said:


> The Pico Slim is a very, very nice amp.  They pair well with the RE0 and HF-2.  I am currently waiting for a LOD.  But, regardless the amp brings lots of life into the RE0.  My God, more bass (quantity too), more detail, more lush and full sound.  Though, the soundstage on the RE0 is still quite narrow, it's quite a significant improvement over an umamped RE0.  It even gives the RE0 a warm signature, haha David Brubeck's piano jazz is so smooth.  I am very happy and content.


 

 I'm actually considering some RE0s (actually, Re-Zeros) as my TF10s have too much bass for my current tastes.  Just for fun I've plugged the Slim into my Reference 1 to see how far it can go (I don't like the sound of my iPod that much any more not surprisingly). The result is very good, probably only held back only by the TF10s themselves.  A slightly bass-shy IEM that is given some punch by the Slim sounds like what I need though (similar to other headphones I like).


----------



## FlyByNight

To pile on about the importance of good mini-plug connectors with this amp:  In checking out my new Slim, I found the right channel to be dropping when I rotated the LOD plug in the jack.  Horrors--it's an ALO Cryo Dock that has worked great on an RSA Tomahawk and Shadow, so problem has to be the amp's input jack, right?  WRONG, I discovered after checking out the amp with Justin's help.  Turns out the mini-plug has a tiny dent on one side at the very base--this, in the particular jack used on the Pico Slim, was killing the signal.
   
  I mention this as reinforcement of the above posts that even a slightly defective or out-of-tolerance connector can cause unexpected issues that are not the amp's fault...


----------



## FlyByNight

So, crisis out of the way, on to first impressions...particularly since I have not seen any comparison yet with the RSA Shadow, which I would have thought is the most similar competing product to the Pico Slim.
   
  Minor Issues:  Pico Slim does not pick up the faint iPod hard drive spin-up whine that the Shadow does when secured against the back of the iPod 5G.  However, the Slim does exhibit that big switch-on pop/thump.  Connectors slide in & out of the Shadow much more easily, yet remain secure.  The Shadow has a nice brushed-aluminum finish that doesn't show fingerprints or scratches, whereas the Slim's glossy surface is gorgeous but makes me worried about both.
   
  Sound quality:  Very little difference to my ears between the Slim and the Shadow.  The Slim does seem a bit more "transparent" or "open" in the mid and mid-high ranges; whereas the Shadow seems to have a very subtle "darker" quality.  Any such difference is very small though--they both sound terrific.  (This listening with UM3X 'phones)  Need more time to decide which signature I prefer (keeping both not being an option 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)
   
  Ergonomics:  Given the lack of really significant SQ difference, my choice of a keeper may come down to how each amp handles.  Both are tiny and very well built; I think the Pico Slim's thin and long form factor better complements the iPod.  Both of them complicate my life by placing the input and output jacks on opposite ends.  The choice between volume knob or spring switch is probably the biggest factor; and will also require some time living with the Pico Slim to figure out which I prefer.


----------



## hkimo

I get my slim for couple of day.
  I have one small question about the slim.
  I found there will hiss arise when the know is turn to 2~3 clock.
  Is that normal?
   
  Beside, When I quickly revolve the knob, I found the sound quality will go from bad to worse.
   
  But I still like the slim and impress by its Stereo crosstalk and sound stage


----------



## mythless

I personally find the hiss is more dependent on the music file.


----------



## hkimo

I personal agree, Sometime hiss is more from music.
  Or because the slim enlarge the hiss from music  I never notice.


----------



## Currawong

The volume control, while amazing in not feeling like it has steps in the slightest, is a bit noisy at the latter end of its travel. However, I'd probably say considering how much gain is being provided at that point, a bit of noise is not an issue.  When playing music, it's certainly not audible to me with the RE-ZEROs that I just got.


----------



## Kpalsm

I just got home from a bit of a vacation last night to find my Slim at home waiting for me. I charged it overnight (since it came in the box with the switch in the ON position) and I'm listening to it now using my HD555's. Sounds great. I've not noticed any hiss or anything negative so far. I haven't experienced the pop when turning the unit on or off because the switch is too close to my headphone cord when it's plugged in to use so I have to turn it on or off with nothing plugged in. Decided to keep the slim in it's leather case and velcro that to my iPod, this allows me to easily remove the Slim should I want to.
   
  So far, listening to Nine Inch Nail's Year Zero, the highs are a lot clearer (less muffled?) than the stock iPod headphone amp. Haven't noticed a lot else yet, but I love the volume control, and I like the idea of taking some of the strain of my iPod's battery via a dedicated external amp. As I listen I will probably start to like it more, but I'm already happy.


----------



## Sayajin

[size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]My Slim finally arrived here. I've made an album with couple of pics http://www.head-fi.org/gallery/album/view/id/10953/user_id/84889

 First look of the amp - sweet little thing! Just below the size of a credit card. The leather case is really nice as well, all feel high quality, thumbs up for this.
 I have been using my Cowon S9, Meizu M6 and TF10 so far with it.
 I do hear those pops clearly when turning the amp on or off. Little loud, could be still worse, but I see in this, most of us would probably prefer no pops at all.
 With no input connected, I can hear slight hiss when the knob is about around 80% or above. (12:00 or more in my case) Rest of it remains silent with my TF10s. Another thing I noticed, I have to turn the knob at least half way before I even begin hear sound from my player, though according what Justin said earlier in this thread it should be normal. Not that I cannot get the sound loud or right about my preferred listening level. The Slim surely has more power than a small E5. Blow it away!
 I also managed to hear small noise between the volume steps. Again noticeable if the knob reach 12:00 clock or more. I even noticed them when music where on, sometimes they go away. Not sure why I'm experience this.

*Sound:* The amp seem to add a slight more soundstage on the Cowon compare unamped, same with Meizu but also a bit more clarity too in this case. Otherwise I would say out of the box there is no major difference. It doesn't add any warmth or coldness IMO, pretty neutral. Think it's great.

 Overall I'm happy with my purchase, but these noise between the volume steps could be small annoying if I can get rid of them.[/size][/size][/size]


----------



## Sayajin

One question: The text and serial on the slim, is it engraved or printed?


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote: 





flybynight said:


> ...  Turns out the mini-plug has a tiny dent on one side at the very base--this, in the particular jack used on the Pico Slim, was killing the signal.
> 
> I mention this as reinforcement of the above posts that even a slightly defective or out-of-tolerance connector can cause unexpected issues that are not the amp's fault...


 

 Is the dent in the jack of the Pico Slim, or in the mini of the ALO cable? If in the 2nd was that caused by a bump or has it been there since you received it? Thanks.


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





sayajin said:


> One question: The text and serial on the slim, is it engraved or printed?


 

 Looks like shallow engraving to me.


----------



## FlyByNight

Quote:


mrarroyo said:


> Is the dent in the jack of the Pico Slim, or in the mini of the ALO cable? If in the 2nd was that caused by a bump or has it been there since you received it? Thanks.


 
   
  It's in the cable mini.  Have no idea if it's been there forever, or caused by something since I've had it.  I never noticed it before because it's very small, and has caused no issue in either of the amps in which it's been previously (RSA Tomahawk, then Shadow).  I'm still using it with the Pico Slim--I just turned the amp over so it doesn't hit the "cutout" position.


----------



## mrarroyo

Sorry to hear, you can always contact Ken at ALO he has excellent customer service. Good luck and enjoy your new toy.


----------



## eron

Used it on a flight and the battery lasted about 5 hours. It also got pretty hot, like untouchable, which explains the bundled case. 
   
  However, when you charge it while using, there's no heat.


----------



## Nebby

5 hour battery life doesn't sound right, did you fully charge it before use? I don't remember mine getting to untouchable temps either....


----------



## hkimo

Me either.
  My Pico slim can work almost 48hr+.
   
  Have you fully charge?


----------



## justin w.

i may need to create a notice to include with the Pico Slim - plug your cables in ALL THE WAY.  When I have demoed the Pico Slim at meets, almost everytime I have to lean over and push someone's headphone or input cable in further.  The battery life I have measured is 60 hours, but may vary slightly depending on the load being driven and the battery packs themselves also have a 5-10% tolerance.


----------



## pedxing

Quote: 





justin w. said:


> i may need to create a notice to include with the Pico Slim - plug your cables in ALL THE WAY.  When I have demoed the Pico Slim at meets, almost everytime I have to lean over and push someone's headphone or input cable in further.  The battery life I have measured is 60 hours, but may vary slightly depending on the load being driven and the battery packs themselves also have a 5-10% tolerance.


 
   
  Please make a notice about this because I thought I broke my pico slim too.
   
  When the pico slim is new, it takes substantial amount of pressure to push the plugs all the way in.  I had issues with imbalanced channels and high pass filtering.  All of these problems were solved after I discovered the plugs were only partially inserted.


----------



## mythless

Haha, I do the ol'push and twist, works like a charm


----------



## Currawong

Same with the input plug, I failed to push mine in all the way too once or twice, so the notice would be a good idea.
   
  Quick impression with RE-ZEROs though: Neutral + neutral = very neutral.  I do get the impression, alongside one of Justin's comments, that the Slim is ever so slightly on the warm side of neutral, but it could be I'm too used to bright headphones.  I'm using the RE-ZEROs with the Slim, TWAG and 6th gen. iPod, so everything is tilted towards being bright and I'm liking that combination.


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





currawong said:


> Same with the input plug, I failed to push mine in all the way too once or twice, so the notice would be a good idea.
> 
> Quick impression with RE-ZEROs though: Neutral + neutral = very neutral.  I do get the impression, alongside one of Justin's comments, that the Slim is ever so slightly on the warm side of neutral, but it could be I'm too used to bright headphones.  I'm using the RE-ZEROs with the Slim, TWAG and 6th gen. iPod, so everything is tilted towards being bright and I'm liking that combination.


 

 Very nice, glad I'm not the only one that hears the Slim gives a nice warming presentation.  Do you also feel (I guess hearing would be more accurate) a more full sounding with the RE-Zero and the slim and a bit more bottom end punch?


----------



## eron

Quote: 





nebby said:


> 5 hour battery life doesn't sound right, did you fully charge it before use? I don't remember mine getting to untouchable temps either....


 

 I charged it overnight for about 15hours a few days ago and had not used it till the flight.
   
  I forgot to bring my volume attenuator, so I thought I could use the Slim instead.
  So it goes from the seat's socket to a headphone adaptor, to an interconnect->slim->earphones.
   
  Pretty sure it was plugged in all the way. If it was a 'plug in' issue, why did it cool down when it was charging?
   
  Could it be because of the strong output?
   
  ---
  Under normal usage from sources like my iPhone and DAC, the Slim works fine, cool and lasts more than 6 hours (more if I had time to test its limits).


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





mythless said:


> Very nice, glad I'm not the only one that hears the Slim gives a nice warming presentation.  Do you also feel (I guess hearing would be more accurate) a more full sounding with the RE-Zero and the slim and a bit more bottom end punch?


 

 No more bottom end punch than straight out of the iPod so far. Just the usual positive effects of better amping such as less congestion on fast music, better instrument separation etc. Not a major change, but one that is apparent with some time listening. I'm not sure with the RE-ZEROs or my TF10s the Slim, especially including the TWAG LOD, has been a good value investment compared to a desktop rig (isn't that always true?) so it's something I'll have to re-visit once I get around to getting JH-13s or 16s where the difference might be more clear.


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





currawong said:


> No more bottom end punch than straight out of the iPod so far. Just the usual positive effects of better amping such as less congestion on fast music, better instrument separation etc. Not a major change, but one that is apparent with some time listening. I'm not sure with the RE-ZEROs or my TF10s the Slim, especially including the TWAG LOD, has been a good value investment compared to a desktop rig (isn't that always true?) so it's something I'll have to re-visit once I get around to getting JH-13s or 16s where the difference might be more clear.


 
   
  Hrmm I guess it's just me then.  I find when listening ti certain songs when amped vs unamped there is a bit more thud with the slim, though I guess it could be considered part of the overall positive amping affect.  While I know the Fuze isn't the best source ever, the pico along with the RE0 does reveal some flaws of both the source and music files (primarily), and even more so on some music songs.


----------



## Currawong

One of the positive benefits is the volume control, which is excellent beyond words.  I can apply just a tiny bit of pressure to the edge of the knob and get an equivalent tiny bit of volume increase or decrease.   Don't get me wrong about the improvements though, they are there with the RE-ZEROs using the Slim, but in relative cost terms they look a bit odd.  That's why I suspect if I'd spent 4 figures on IEMs, it wouldn't look as odd but would make more sense. I imagine it would make more sense audibly as well.  For me, the Slim is an experiment to see if I can get a usable and enjoyable portable rig happening.  I'm going to write up a more comprehensive blog post on it at some stage, as I've bought some other, quite interesting gear to play with.


----------



## debitsohn

Please keep in mind, hi-fi wise i am uneducated and you might not agree with what i say but its what I hear.
   
  wow, i finally got to use the Slim with my S:flo and SM3 for an extended listening.  Originally i thought there was no difference or it was slight and wouldnt justify the extra luggage. i was wrong.  without the Slim, the s:flo and SM3 sounds exactly what it is. earphones with great separation and clarity. with the slim, the separation and impact was increased.  The best way i can describe it is that i felt like i was in the recording studio with them as they played.  i had the volume down lower but the impact and separation was greater.  I greatly underestimated the Slim and I think ill continue to use it as long as my finances hold up.


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





currawong said:


> One of the positive benefits is the volume control, which is excellent beyond words.  I can apply just a tiny bit of pressure to the edge of the knob and get an equivalent tiny bit of volume increase or decrease.   Don't get me wrong about the improvements though, they are there with the RE-ZEROs using the Slim, but in relative cost terms they look a bit odd.  That's why I suspect if I'd spent 4 figures on IEMs, it wouldn't look as odd but would make more sense. I imagine it would make more sense audibly as well.  For me, the Slim is an experiment to see if I can get a usable and enjoyable portable rig happening.  I'm going to write up a more comprehensive blog post on it at some stage, as I've bought some other, quite interesting gear to play with.


 

 Haha you don't have to tell me how odd it is.  Fuze ($80), RE0 ($99) and Slim ($300), L6 LOD ($20), there's something wrong with that picture, but right now I'm content and it makes a great small and portable rig.  The Slim is quite a fun toy to have


----------



## TekeRugburn

does anyone have a pic of the shadow and pico slim next to each other... i want to compare the size between the two


----------



## mythless

^Just think of the fuze but 1/4 width less.  It's pretty small.


----------



## technetium

Wee I got mine yesterday... I am number 156, it got stuck in customs grrr.
   
  But nice little map, I just made a lille angeled mundorf IC to cowon s9, sounds gret. But...
   
  With my s9 at max volume, and the slim at "4 o´clock" the music is at about normal listening levels. My god old Move goes to around 12 o´clock. Is the slim not that strong or?


----------



## mythless

It's a bit hard to understand your post.  But, I think I know what you mean.  For myself with the LOD on the Fuze and RE0, for my normal volume of listening the Slim is around 6-7 O'clock.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote: 





technetium said:


> Wee I got mine yesterday... I am number 156, it got stuck in customs grrr.
> 
> But nice little map, I just made a lille angeled mundorf IC to cowon s9, sounds gret. But...
> 
> With my s9 at max volume, and the slim at "4 o´clock" the music is at about normal listening levels. My god old Move goes to around 12 o´clock. Is the slim not that strong or?


 

 or...the Cowon has low output. I have this problem with my Cowon i9. The pair looks great together but the i9 is lacking power to begin with so it didn't work to pair the i9 & Slim. I now use a 6G iPod Classic. With LOD to Slim, there's plenty of power and sounding great. I just miss having the nice EQ with i9...I have it paired with SR71A which has plenty of power to overcome the low output of i9. I'm using Westone 3, Ortofon e-Q7  & Phonak PFE  mostly.


----------



## swbf2cheater

edit:  The slim is nice, but I prefer a number of amps to it.


----------



## Currawong

I had a surprisingly enjoyable time trying the Audio Technica ES10s and ESW9s with my iPod Classic/TWAG LOD/Slim rig.  I noticed if you try and use too demanding full-sized headphones, you get boomy and out-of-control bass response with the Slim, as it isn't designed for them, but not with the above cans, where it was surprisingly good.


----------



## technetium

Hmm well the cowon s9 has a output of 2x29mW right, or is it more, I cant remember, but it is more than e.g. an Ipod.
   
  It just stuck me that it cant "blow my ears of" so to speak, not that I do that, it just it feels weak, if you get my point


----------



## pekingduck

How are the Beyer T50P's with the Slim? Any impressions?


----------



## justin w.

Quote: 





technetium said:


> Hmm well the cowon s9 has a output of 2x29mW right, or is it more, I cant remember, but it is more than e.g. an Ipod.
> 
> It just stuck me that it cant "blow my ears of" so to speak, not that I do that, it just it feels weak, if you get my point


 


 the max output is about 4.2Vpp, 200mA.  hard to know exactly how cowon is quoting the power output but my guess is the equivalent for the Pico Slim would be about 300mW per channel, or around 10x more power.  If you are turning the volume knob to MAX, and its not loud enough, and it's not clipping, then the issue is the output from the cowon is too low and you need more gain.  The gain on the Pico Slim is set low to keep the amp's signal to noise ratio as high as possible, and distortion as low as possible.  also, because the digital vol. ctrl on the Pico Slim has far more attenuation than most amps, you will have to turn the knob more before reaching loud levels.  If you are just attempting to amplify the headphone output of your source, you'll have to turn the knob more than 3/4 of the way up before its "louder" than just using the headphone out of that source.  of course the distortion is probably 1/1000th...


----------



## technetium

Okay, so it is normal  Also the er4s are hard to drive so no wonder, and I dont have any problems with a lower output, its just I thought it was wierd comming from a Move


----------



## midoo1990

.


----------



## Charn

Sound good!


----------



## yard

Is the pico slim a good match with CK-100 or triple-fi 10pro?


----------



## Currawong

Since I received notice I could pick up my iPhone 4 finally, when I had the chance, I tested it with the RE-ZEROs with and without the Pico Slim.  Without, dialling up some good jazz, the result was unlistenable, seriously, sounding very harsh. However, with the Pico Slim it was very good, even considering what I'm used to with my home rig. The difference in the quality of amplification between my iPhone and the Slim is considerable with the kind of music I listen to most often.  I recall Jusin saying that the level of distortion in the Slim was a large order of magnitude lower than the output of an iPod (?).  What I heard today most definitely confirms that. There was no change in the tone, ie: no boosted bass or any tricks to make it sound better, the quality was simply a great deal better.
   
  Now I don't know if anything has changed with the RE-ZEROs or the Slim since I recieved either, but the difference I heard today against the cost of the Slim makes it very worth it to me.  The value of the TWAG LOD is a little more questionable, especially since you can get a FiiO/Oyaide LOD very cheaply which is very high quality. However, that isn't low profile and the TWAG is hand-made.
   
  I'll have a go with my TF10s soon, but I suspect the difference might not be as great, being that they were designed to work straight out of an iPod or the like to begin with.


----------



## warp08

Quote: 





currawong said:


> No more bottom end punch than straight out of the iPod so far. Just the usual positive effects of better amping such as less congestion on fast music, better instrument separation etc. Not a major change, but one that is apparent with some time listening. I'm not sure with the RE-ZEROs or my TF10s the Slim, especially including the TWAG LOD, has been a good value investment compared to a desktop rig (isn't that always true?) so it's something I'll have to re-visit once I get around to getting JH-13s or 16s where the difference might be more clear.


 
   
  Well, I just got Qusp's #44 yesterday.  Hooked up to my iMod with the TWag LOD and TWagged JH16 Pros.  Based on Qusp's description, the Pico Slim is not anywhere close to being burned in, but the synergy with the JH16 Pros seems to be excellent!  Very detailed representation, nice transients and visceral impact on Best of Jacintha encoded in Apple Lossless.  Great soundstage.  If anything is missing, that would be some lower bass harmonics, warmth that the TTVJ Slim does so well, but that isn't as detailed in the treble range.
   
  The JH13s also match well, but there the presentation is a bit too sterile, overly analytic for me, similar to the Protector in that aspect.
   
  You'll be very pleased with the JH16 Pros and this amp.


----------



## dejainc

Anyone recommend a good case to fit with the slim and ipod nano with a low profile LOD? Trying to look but nothing is poping up...


----------



## neosoul

You may want to take a look at this case,  I bought it for my mini and my 4g photo Ipod. Unfortunately I have not had a chance to try the case due to my extended stay in the hospital
   
  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110472090445&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT


----------



## Jaunty

Justin posted a link to this review in the pre-order thread
   
  http://www.headfonia.com/pico-slim-first-impression/
   
  Just got mine. Had 1 1/2 hour train journey yesterday and was enjoying the Pico Slim very much with Twag LOD, iPod Classic, ALAC files and Earpeace Livewires T1. The first quarter of the volume pot will never be used by me, can't hear anything really. The gain is no louder than the iPod headphone out, maybe a tad less even - but the quality is way ahead. And it is way tiny!
   
  (Grr, I hate how you can't just copy and paste/spell check in the new format Head-Fi in Firefox).


----------



## dejainc

Quote: 





neosoul said:


> You may want to take a look at this case,  I bought it for my mini and my 4g photo Ipod. Unfortunately I have not had a chance to try the case due to my extended stay in the hospital
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110472090445&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT


 

 Thanks, ill check it out, but i fear that it might be a bit too big overall and bulky to carry around in my pockets.


----------



## mythless

After having the Slim, it's pretty hard to use some of my headphones without it, the RE0 especially.  I can't wait to try the Slim with some of my newer headphone/gear that I wait impatiently for.
   
  For cases, I generally just use a thick rubber band and strapped it to my Fuze (The Slim with its leather case and Fuze with its case) and then either use the belt clip or toss it into my man bag, lol...It's functional!


----------



## neosoul

Quote: 





dejainc said:


> Thanks, ill check it out, but i fear that it might be a bit too big overall and bulky to carry around in my pockets.


 

 That's what some of the online reviews say, I think it may have a belt loop though not sure since it will be a couple of weeks at least before I can pick mine up from the post office. Main reason for purchasing is the fact that you can put both Ipod, amp, and lod in same case. Also you may still be able to find this case for $1 which imo you can't go wrong at that price


----------



## Currawong

I've added these pictures to the first post:
   
   
  Oyaide/FiiO L5 LOD, Whiplash TWAG LOD, Pico Slim, iPhone 3GS:

   
  Slim/iPhone 3GS thickness comparison:

   
   
  Slim/iPhone 4 comparison: (They are the same thickness):


----------



## wsilvio

Can anyone tell me if it is alright to use the iphone charger to charge my slim?


----------



## Currawong

Don't see why the iPhone charger wouldn't work.


----------



## jc9394

the iphone charger works fine.  that is what i use when traveling.


----------



## wsilvio

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> the iphone charger works fine.  that is what i use when traveling.


 

 Great.  That's what I want to do with it too.  No need to bring all these chargers on vacation!


----------



## lucozade

@hotdoggie , thanks for your impressions , enjoyed reading them


----------



## Hotdoggie

@lucozade, you're welcome.


----------



## animalsrush

Seems atleast 200 people have got their pico slims.. But no new reviews .. How come .. Please post reviews and your experiences .. I am waiting to get mine but looks like it will be a while ..
   
  Thanks
  PC


----------



## GreatDane

^ Pico Slim is freakin' awesome. End of review.


----------



## hvu

awesome review


----------



## rayk

Yeah there isn't much discussion on this amp which I figure is because everyone is so busy enjoying theirs right? Well might aswell add my bit:
   
  Volume control is quite amazing, very smooth and provides alot of range for IEMs and portables (like ESW9), which is quite a welcome considering that most amps have too much gain and limit you to the beginning of the volume pot.
   
  Noise floor is great too, no audible hiss until you are well beyond the 2 o'clock position - far beyond safe listening volume. Amp itself sounds very transparent, can't tell that it has any colouration - just well detailed and separated sound.
   
  Justin has again come up with a solid amp, and the fact it all fits in such a small footprint is even more amazing. Bravo!
   
  Now where can I get a bigger version of that volume control to replace the RK27 in my CKKIII =P.


----------



## Goronok

Is it possible to order or pre order these at this point? Their website is pretty darn confusing and just points to a bunch of threads here that have no info about ordering. Anyone have any info on this?


----------



## airwax

I think the pre-order price is long over. Right? But, I don't understand why you need to pay more now when you'll be waiting for a much longer time?


----------



## mythless

Guess I'll attempt to do a review.


----------



## Currawong

I'm pretty sure you can still put yourself on the list for the slim in the pre-order thread, but you'd need to check the first post for other info.
   
  I'm thinking of getting one of those new Nano Touches to use with the Slim. Not sure how I'd attach it though.


----------



## mythless

screen protector for the nano and rubber band lol.  Well, I'm currently in the process of writing a review.


----------



## hvu

The slim looks like my may be longer than the nano.


----------



## justin w.

Quote: 





hvu said:


> The slim looks like my may be longer than the nano.


 
   
  no.  this is published all over the place
   
  Pico Slim: 3.15 x 1.55 x 0.37"
   
  iPod Nano (5th gen): 3.6 x 1.5 x 0.24"


----------



## Ptahkeem

think he meant the nano 6g.  for the 5g or lower the slim is definitely not longer.  in fact, the dimensions are just perfect for my 1g =).


----------



## justin w.

Quote: 





ptahkeem said:


> think he meant the nano 6g.  for the 5g or lower the slim is definitely not longer.  in fact, the dimensions are just perfect for my 1g =).


 

 the 6g nano is a weird shape and has a belt clip right?  i think it's going to be a tough one to pair with a portable amp


----------



## Nebby

Perhaps add a "belt loop" on top of the pico leather case and clip the nano to it?
  Quote: 





justin w. said:


> the 6g nano is a weird shape and has a belt clip right?  i think it's going to be a tough one to pair with a portable amp


----------



## mythless

Well, I'm almost done my review, should I post it here or in a new thread?


----------



## justin w.

Quote: 





nebby said:


> Perhaps add a "belt loop" on top of the pico leather case and clip the nano to it?


 

 by the time i have those we'll be halfway to nano 7g, why bother


----------



## Currawong

Whereas normally I have one of those rubber bands to secure the Slim (in case, as I don't want to scratch it) to my 6G iPod, I might find a nice tight band to put around the Slim (in its case) which I can clip a new Nano into if I end up getting one.


----------



## Ptahkeem

Quote: 





justin w. said:


> by the time i have those we'll be halfway to nano 7g, why bother


 

 agreed.  im not that big of a fan of the design they chose for the new nano.  if they had kept the dimensions as is and added a touchscreen to that it wouldve been much hotter imo.


----------



## Nebby

Good point. Currawong's rubber band idea is probably the easiest way I think.
  
  Quote: 





justin w. said:


> by the time i have those we'll be halfway to nano 7g, why bother


----------



## mythless

_*Next Generation of Portable Amplifiers – Enter the Pico Slim*_
   
*Introduction*
   
  I should warn everyone that my first amplifier of any design and type was the Fiio E5.  But, alas it wasn’t up to my particular taste.  While it performed well for the price of $20USD, there wasn’t anything special about the amp besides its tiny size.     However, within this past year the upgrade virus has made my wallet very sad.  Despite my current desire to piece together my own vintage equipment, my headphone and amplifier inventory has significantly increased.  However, while I was slowly entering the realm of “desktop” music, like the Audio-gd Sparrow and the Purity Audio KICAS/Caliente amplifier, portability still remained a very important category for me.  *Enter the Pico Slim.*  The Slim has been out on the market for quite some time however, there hasn’t been an extensive review.  So, here is my take on this wonderful amplifier. 
  Pico Slim Design Features
   
  There have been tons of raves towards the Pico Slim, and there’s even a longer waiting lists for this happy little unit.  The Pico Slim is a brand new amp from Justin W. of HeadAmp.  It is a very small unit.  The Pico Slims has a dimension of 3.15 x 1.5 x 0.37" (80 x 38.1 x 9.4mm), a battery life of ~70 hours, and output of up to 4.2V @ 250mA per channel.  As well, up to 110dB of attenuation and 255 volume steps.  To read more on the Pico Slim please see this link: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/424448/headamp-pico-slim-portable-amplifier
   
*Build Quality*
   
  Absolutely superb!  I have the black version with black knob and it look very, very nice, clean and sleak.  Though, it can be a finger print magnet.  So, it sends most of its day in the black leather case that was provided with the unit.  The encasing is flawless with laser engraved imprints.  It’s built like a rock, despite its little size.  Trust me, between the built quality of my Fuze and the Pico Slim, the Pico is much higher.  Not to mention, the leather case is a very nice touch!
  While it uses a digital attenuator it’s very smooth, it’s seamless.   That is definitely a plus.  However it doesn’t have a very large gain.  The Pico Slim was designed for lower impedance headphones and primarily IEMs.  So, no 600ohm headphones allowed!  Trust me, my O-Ones are pretty high on the volume knob.  But, for the RE0 there’s quite of bit of breathing room.
   
*Review*
   
  Too be honest, I didn’t know what to expect.  I was and probably still am an amateur at the audio game.  Sure, I can tell the difference between my headphone’s sound signature and after a long critical audition I can tell which one is more detailed and what not.  But, how do I go and review an amp?  There isn’t a particular template to follow so I review it how I normally review it, sit down with a glass of water and listen to my gear.  All if not most of my headphones I will be using have been reviewed already.   So, let’s see how well they sound amped?
   
  Gear: Sansa Fuze V2, 8GB, Fiio L6 LOD, RE0, T50P and O-One
  Music:  All FLAC
  EQ: None
   
*Short Headphone Impressions*
   
  RE0:  The underdog of the IEM world, the once $200 IEM can be found for $80.  Has the mighty RE0 fallen from its former place of glory?  Having a high impedance of 64ohm it’s not the easiest IEM to drive and the constant notion of the RE0 needing an amp to really shine is quite evident.  King of clarity back then and is now the RE0 is still quite the nobility.
   
  Beyerdynamic T50P:  A newcomer in the portable headphone game.  Boasting the famous Telsa technology from Beyerdynamic and can be found on the T1 and T5P(?).  The T50P has quite the task in the ever Audio Technica dominant section of headphones.  The T50Ps are known to be smooth with excellent clarity and detail, not to mention a decent amount of bass, much more than the RE0.  As well, a tinge of metallic resonance is nice to have.  You either love them, or hate them.  I am quite fond of them and besides my customs they’re one of my favorite headphones.   And, it does appear the T50P likes to be amped
   
  Ortofon O-One:  One of my favourite testing headphones.  The O-Ones are extremely detailed, with excellent soundstage, and bass without sacrificing detail or clarity.  However, the treble is slightly more forward than what some would like but, it makes excellent rock phones!
   
*Dave Brubeck – Take Five*
   
  RE0:  The Pico does not add any coloration whatsoever to the sound signature of the RE0, so…if you thought the RE0 were too neutral….well, they’re still pretty neutral with the Pico Slim, but do they sound smooth.  Nothing over powering, nothing out of place, just smooth and beautiful listening.  Everything is nicely amped and without distortion.  Soundstage does open a little, not a whole lot, barely noticeable to my ears.  Greater clarity and the detail is a lot more noticeable than before and again it’s smooth sailing from here!  Sounds just as good as the T50P, especially considering how old the RE0 are and that they’re IEMs. 
   
*Airbourne – Too Much, Too Young, Too Fast*
   
  RE0:  In some ways it reminds me of my Grado when amped.  The bass feels tighter and everything is crystal clear, but much cleaner than the Grado and it doesn’t add more “bass”.  But, I shouldn’t be comparing the two.  In a way, the Pico amps and the RE0 are the perfect neutral combination, that they are perfectly neutral in almost everything way.   I can hear every single cord, treble is smooth and extended.  The cymbals are crisp and clean.  In a way, it’s better than the O-Ones and the T50P when unamped.  The Pico Slim has a bit of magic to the old RE0.
   
*Tupac – Until the End of Time / DJ Champion – Alive Again!*
   
  RE0: Clearly, I feel more bass, but like with the Airbourne, its tight not bloated.  Now, if you think the Pico Slim adds more “boom” impact, well it doesn’t.   Everything is like before, smoother, lighter and clearer.  I’ll be honest.  I don’t listen to rap or hip hop very often anymore, due to various reasons.  And, I would never use my RE0.  If I had to choose between my other headphones with these particular genres I would use my NE-7m amplified or even the Vixen.  Why?  Even though the bass is clean, and even upon a frequency sweep it does hit the low tones, it’s not very prominent.  I guess that’s what people call sub-bass?  It’s not head shaking by any means.  However, with the Pico Slim, it does do an adequate job in providing more power to the low end.  It does make the bass more pronounced, more noticeable.  However, if you avoided the RE0 because it was bass shy, the Pico Slim doesn’t magically produce anymore that the RE0 already have.  Even with DJ Champion the RE0 sound much more enjoyable.  But, then again I’m not a bass head, but I do like my bass.  The bass on the Phiaton MS400 can be addicting at times.
   
*Rachmaninoff – Piano Concerto No.2 in C minor op.18*
   
  RE0: This is my first time I’ve this song with the RE0.  And, it does sound a whole lot better amped.  But, I don’t get the rumbling bass notes from the cellos or basses or the expansive sound stage.  Other than that, which isn’t a whole lot surprising; the RE0 does an excellent job at everything else.  Beautiful detailed without harshness, smooth crystal clear notes and wonderful instrumental separation.  Almost perfect, I just need a bit lower end extension.  But, the RE0 did surprised me with classical.
   
*Conclusion*
   
  Sitting back and listening to all my other headphones, even the ones I didn’t list a thought crossed my head, “I’m testing an amp, not headphones…so the positive effects will be the same regardless of the headphone.”  And, you know what, it’s completely true.  The Pico Slim is a wonderful amp that deserves the praise it has / is getting now.  Though, remember the Pico doesn’t add any coloration at all.  And, there is no “bass button” or treble adjuster or anything like that.
   
  But here is short tidbit on the other headphones: the Pico Slim do have positive benefits on both the O-One and T50P in terms of sound.  However, I personally think both the O-One and T50P would benefit more from a lot warmer amplifier being they’re both quite bright.  But, from what I’ve read I am hoping a warmer amp may tame the brightness.  But, the Pico Slim does a good job in taming them, more so on the T50P than the O-Ones.  Like any good amplifier all those lovely positive effects can sometimes have a negative impact.  For the O-One the Pico Slim actually accentuate one flaw of the O-One which is sibilance.  However, the O-Ones are a bit of an odd one, they sound pretty good off the Purity Audio amplifier in Caliente mode (a candle flame warmer than the KICAS mode).  For the T50P the benefits are just like the RE0 and the positive effects on the bottom end is very nice.
  For its size, the Pico Slim is terrific amplifier and there is no amp on the market that can match its size to performance ratio.  Now, if you’re thinking about the Arrow 2G, while it’s just as thin, the length and width dimension are a lot bigger.  It some way the Pico Slim reminds me quite a bit of the Purity Audio KICAS amplifier that it’s perfectly neutral.  Now, when I mean neutral I don’t really mean boring.  While there seems to be an association between neutral and boring and as far as I am concern, to my ears, the Pico Slim has brought back life into the RE0 and I no longer find them as boring as before.  I can put the RE0 in my ears and disappear into my music.  Other than the bass, the smoothness gives a bit of naturalness to the song, especially jazz.  But, like all audio gear it may not be everyone’s cup of tea.  I have a wide variety of taste and I switch between my equipment constantly.  But, I know what I like, and I like the Pico Slim.
   
  So, to conclude: some of the positive affect that the Pico Slim have provided are: slight increase of soundstage, smoother treble, mid grade and more power to the lower ends on bass shy headphones.   Everything sounds so balanced and clean.  As well, there is something else I can’t describe about the Pico Slim.  While the Pico Slim is my only “main” portable amp, I do have quite an arrangement of amps: the Audio-gd Sparrow, Purity Audio KICAS/Caliente, even my vintage (lol) Harman Kardon PM660.  Sadly, they’re all solid state.  But, the Pico Slim provides this level of sound that matches them but in a tiny package.  Try strapping the PM660 to you back!
   
  Key buying points of the Pico Slim:  Excellent sound quality in a tiny package that is no bigger than the Sansa Fuze and has a very, very smooth volume attenuator!  The Pico Slim is something that you have to hear to believe.  And, don’t let the size fool you!  The Pico Slim is truly a great amp!
  Personal note:  While I have stated before many times that I was pretty done with IEMs despite my interest in several newer IEMS such as the DBA-02, SM3, RE-262 and many others with the RE0, RE252 and NE-7m I thought I was done.  Especially, after I got into headphones and vintage speakers, lol I blame my family members!  But, spending a more critical time with my IEM set and the Pico Slim has made me appreciate them on another new level.  The NE-7m sounds pretty damn good when amped.  It was truly a shocker, that’s for sure.  But, the Pico Slim kinda pique my interest back into IEMs, I might take a more serious look into the SM3. 
   
  While I cannot articulate as much as other people here on Head-Fi, I do hope you enjoy this review.


----------



## Jaunty

Mythless - Thanks for taking the time to right up your thoughts. It is quite daunting, I'm sure, and I would not know where to start. I find my Pico Slim just makes everything a bit more effortless, and as it is no hassle to carry around I use it most of the time now with my iPod Classic and Livewires. (Usability is great, holding it in my left hand I can make track selections on the iPod and adjust volume on the Pico Slim with my index finger quite naturally).


----------



## mythless

Yep, the Pico Slim is quite the handy amp.


----------



## bcwang

Finally got my pico slim today!
   
  Holy...I totally forgot about the turn on "thump" issue since it's old news now.  I'm so glad I forgot my IEMs today as even with my HF1 that thump was loud!  Now I'll remember to turn on before plugging in headphones.


----------



## justin w.

Someone in the pre-order thread had asked about internal photos.  Here they are:
   



   



   
  If you already have the Pico Slim you can add your name on the Head Gear page for it: http://www.head-fi.org/products/headamp-pico-slim-portable-amp


----------



## rayk

Nice internal shot, almost tempted to pull mine apart to have a look inside!
   
  I wonder if there is an RK27 sized volume control like the one Pico uses. Would love to fit one in my CKKIII


----------



## wuwhere

It uses AD8656 amp chip as a pre-amp?


----------



## justin w.

Quote: 





rayk said:


> Nice internal shot, almost tempted to pull mine apart to have a look inside!
> 
> I wonder if there is an RK27 sized volume control like the one Pico uses. Would love to fit one in my CKKIII
> 
> ...


 

 size won't matter here.  the pot is just to control the digital volume attenuator.


----------



## Nemosan

My new portable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  There are a few more photos in the portable rig thread
   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/439019/pictures-of-your-portable-rig-part-xiv/870#post_6957900
   
   

   
   
  The new Nano 6G doesn't sound as good as my iPhone 3GS through the line out. I haven't actually tried the headphone out. If there is any improvement over the 3GS, I'd say it has an infinitesimal wider soundstage


----------



## K3cT

On retrospect, I prefer the sound of the older Pico but I would still get the new Pico Slim due to its minuscule size and the very wicked attenuator. I tend not to engage in critical listening anyway when I'm outside so practicality > SQ and therefore Pico Slim > Pico in that respect.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





nemosan said:


> My new portable
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I thought the 6G Nano line out was below my iPhone 4 and 3G Nano line out, but possibly above my current 5G Nano which is not as warm sounding and slightly brighter.  I need to borrow a 6G again or buy my own and do longer comparisons with more music that I am familiar with.  It certainly didn't suck.  Before the iPhone 3G/GS/4, the 3G Nano line out was closest to my 5.5G iMod video in sound signature, and very balanced sounding (I still have 2 of them).
   
  The 6G headphone out is a little colored with a mid-bass bump that makes it a little more fun sounding than neutral, but it's not sibilant in the highs like my old 4G Nano was through the headphone out.  So, I thought it was kinda fun and bouncy with the UM3X, but not as transparent as other iPods and maybe too much bass for the W3. I actually only have about 5-10 hours through my 5G Nano headphone out because of my bad 4G Nano experience, and I currently only use the 5G or 3G (with LOD to Pico Slim of course).  
   
  More Slim Impressions - the Slim is an upgrade over any of my iPod/iPhone headphone jacks, and the size is small enough that I bring it everywhere with me.  Comparing the Slim to my iPhone 4 headphone out there are a couple of small but immediately noticeable differences in sound (1) the Slim has a deeper more pervasive bass response and impact, and (2) the Slim has a wider and deeper soundstage.  More subtle is the increase in transparency and realism, but it's there.  I like the Slim more with my Westone IEM (custom and universal) than I do with my JH13Pro, so I leave the JH13Pro at home paired with the Protector off the Macbook > Pico DAC.  I think the JH13Pro bass is a little thick when paired with the Slim, and more accurate with the Protector.  The Protector also fills in the JH13Pro mids a little better, while the mids sound a bit more laid back with the Slim.  Other than with HD600 or HE-5 LE in balanced mode, I prefer the Slim with almost everything else.  While HD800 are underpowered by the Slim, they sound more natural and balanced while they become a bit bright with the Protector (HD800 have a similar tone with the HM-801, which is more powerful but not as small).  The Slim is very good with my UM3X and W2.  It's not too bad with my W3, but not optimal unless I use my UM56 tips.  The Slim also pairs well with my MTPG, and TF10Pro, although I'd wish for fuller mids with the TF10Pro.  That's an issue I have with the TF10 and not the Slim.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





k3ct said:


> On retrospect, I prefer the sound of the older Pico but I would still get the new Pico Slim due to its minuscule size and the very wicked attenuator. I tend not to engage in critical listening anyway when I'm outside so practicality > SQ and therefore Pico Slim > Pico in that respect.


 
   
  For a while I preferred the P-51 over my original Pico for it's added warmth and fullness in the sound, but at times it was slightly aggressive sounding and I would turn to the Pico.  When I compared the three amps at CanJam 2009 I felt that the Pico Slim added that missing warmth I wanted, while remaining smoother and more refined than my P-51.  
   
  I do feel the Slim is very slightly more laid back than the original Pico, but not in a bad way.  I no longer have the original Pico or P-51 for comparisons, but that would have been the only reason to keep them - otherwise they were not as practical for portable use as the Slim.  Until I got the Slim I found I was using my tiny iBasso T3 more than the others even though it wasn't as good, because it was smaller.


----------



## Nemosan

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> For a while I preferred the P-51 over my original Pico for it's added warmth and fullness in the sound, but at times it was slightly aggressive sounding and I would turn to the Pico.  When I compared the three amps at CanJam 2009 I felt that the Pico Slim added that missing warmth I wanted, while remaining smoother and more refined than my P-51.
> 
> I do feel the Slim is very slightly more laid back than the original Pico, but not in a bad way.  I no longer have the original Pico or P-51 for comparisons, but that would have been the only reason to keep them - otherwise they were not as practical for portable use as the Slim.  Until I got the Slim I found I was using my tiny iBasso T3 more than the others even though it wasn't as good, because it was smaller.


 
   
   
  For me, I also find the Pico Slim laid back. Its missing that punch at the low end as compared to my P-51, but the mids really shine on the Slim. Overall SQ-wise I think the P-51 is marginally superior, but the truely *pocketability* of the Slim and its fine volume control has made my P-51 redundant. Now that I have bought a Nano 6G to go with the Slim I can put the whole thing in my shirt/trouser pocket without getting raised eyebrow looks from the females 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  One thing I find with some people commenting on the Nano 6G saying its a glorified iPod Shuffle, is that they overlook the 30-pin dock connector. In the Head-fi world the line out signal is the differentiator between the two devices. It allows the Nano to be connected to all the audio accessories out there.


----------



## Currawong

I get the impression that the Slim was aimed to be non-coloured (essentially) whereas the RSA amps are deliberately slightly coloured.  Would I be right?
   
  If the new Nano has a bit more bass punch than my iPhone 4, I might consider getting one to use with the RE-ZEROs, which are very bass-light.  I really need to consider different IEMs though.


----------



## Nemosan

Quote: 





currawong said:


> I get the impression that the Slim was aimed to be non-coloured (essentially) whereas the RSA amps are deliberately slightly coloured.  Would I be right?
> 
> If the new Nano has a bit more bass punch than my iPhone 4, I might consider getting one to use with the RE-ZEROs, which are very bass-light.  I really need to consider different IEMs though.


 

 Yes, I think the P-51 is more coloured than the Slim. For me, the P-51 is superb for electronic/acoustic/pop as its more aggressive at the low end and high end. It also does a pretty good job at vocals/jazz type music. However with the Slim, I find its better suited for vocals/jazz only with its accenuated mid-range. For bassy music I think its really bland. In that sense the P-51 is more versatile and so I find it to be better overall.
   
  The new Nano 6G has no more bass presence than my iPhone 3GS, so I don't think it will be any better than an iPhone 4. It is a great little DAP, and I am satisfied with my purchase if not overwhelmed. Battery life isn't too hot. I'm only getting ~15hours per charge. But I believe that is the norm...


----------



## WalkGood

Posted my Pico Slim review here --->  http://anythingbutipod.com/2010/10/headamp-pico-slim-portable-amp-review/


----------



## justin w.

nice pics


----------



## WalkGood

Quote: 





justin w. said:


> nice pics ...


 


   Thank you


----------



## Currawong

Good review.  I found that the Slim makes the most difference with, say, my RE-ZEROs compared to straight out of my iPhone or an iPod. Out of those, they sound harsh and unlistenable. Out of the Slim all the harshness has gone.  The weirdest great match I had with them was with the Shure SH-440 and SH-840, which I had gathered were, for full-sized headphones, great out of even just an iPod.


----------



## Jalo

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> For a while I preferred the P-51 over my original Pico for it's added warmth and fullness in the sound, but at times it was slightly aggressive sounding and I would turn to the Pico.  When I compared the three amps at CanJam 2009 I felt that the Pico Slim added that missing warmth I wanted, while remaining smoother and more refined than my P-51.
> 
> I do feel the Slim is very slightly more laid back than the original Pico, but not in a bad way.  I no longer have the original Pico or P-51 for comparisons, but that would have been the only reason to keep them - otherwise they were not as practical for portable use as the Slim.  Until I got the Slim I found I was using my tiny iBasso T3 more than the others even though it wasn't as good, because it was smaller.


 

 HPA, I have been listening to the Slim for about 40 hours now.  I was using the P-51 for a year and a half before I switched to the Protector.   I have been using the Protector for the past year so I haven't listened to the P-51 for a year or so.  So when I received the Slim, I immediately wanted to compare the two.  On the same setup with Ipod Classic and JH13, since I haven't listened to the P51 for awhile I was surprised that the p-51 has quite a bit more air and ambience (or fullness in your words) when it is compare to the slim and actually to the Protector as well.  However, the slim as least to the type of music I listen to-soft rock, vocal, and some classical, it is a little more aggressive than the P51 in a good way.  I really like the PRAT, the quickness, the sharpness, the punchiness of the slim and the way it attacks music.  The Slim also seems to be a little more transparent and detail oriented than the P51, may be that is why you feel the Slim is more refined than the P51.   Contrary to your experience, the P51 is warmer and smoother than the Slim to me.  The P51 has better sound stage, ambience and reverb.  May be I have not spend enough time with the Slim, but it is certainly not laid back to me.  The Slim and the P51 are very different with its own character.  I find myself enjoy both at different times and mood.   I am keeping both.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





jalo said:


> HPA, I have been listening to the Slim for about 40 hours now.  I was using the P-51 for a year and a half before I switched to the Protector.   I have been using the Protector for the past year so I haven't listened to the P-51 for a year or so.  So when I received the Slim, I immediately wanted to compare the two.  On the same setup with Ipod Classic and JH13, since I haven't listened to the P51 for awhile I was surprised that the p-51 has quite a bit more air and ambience (or fullness in your words) when it is compare to the slim and actually to the Protector as well.  However, the slim as least to the type of music I listen to-soft rock, vocal, and some classical, it is a little more aggressive than the P51 in a good way.  I really like the PRAT, the quickness, the sharpness, the punchiness of the slim and the way it attacks music.  The Slim also seems to be a little more transparent and detail oriented than the P51, may be that is why you feel the Slim is more refined than the P51.   Contrary to your experience, the P51 is warmer and smoother than the Slim to me.  The P51 has better sound stage, ambience and reverb.  May be I have not spend enough time with the Slim, but it is certainly not laid back to me.  The Slim and the P51 are very different with its own character.  I find myself enjoy both at different times and mood.   I am keeping both.


 

 I just mean the Slim is laid back in the upper mids in comparison to the P-51 and in the highs in comparison to the original Pico; but it does have good dynamics, drive and impact.  Laid back to me doesn't mean it's lacking those, but rather it's just not forcing it's sound on you.  The P-51 did seem to have slightly more air and ambience, depending on the source or phones, but with less transparency and more aggressiveness in those upper mids.  I also felt the P-51 was slightly more forward than the Slim.  With the JH13Pro I thought the P-51 or Protector was a better match because they mate with the JH13Pro mids nicely, but with my ES3X or ES5 I think the Pico Slim is a better match.  Like I said, I think the Slim has a similar warmth to the P-51, while the original Pico was not quite as warm (not to confuse warm with dark, which none of these are).  If I didn't have the Protector I'd still own the P-51, so I agree that having both amps is a good idea.


----------



## Nebby

Quote: 





walkgood said:


> Posted my Pico Slim review here --->  http://anythingbutipod.com/2010/10/headamp-pico-slim-portable-amp-review/


 


  Good review, just two small comments: you put "Eliminated features" as a con, but I couldn't find where you detailed the specifics of that. Also, how did you reach your 40-60db thump number?


----------



## WalkGood

Quote: 





nebby said:


> Good review, just two small comments: you put "Eliminated features" as a con, but I couldn't find where you detailed the specifics of that. Also, how did you reach your 40-60db thump number?


 
   
  Thanks for the feeback in my origional review I wrote and submitted I had a section on "eliminated features," which must have been edited out by the editor and I didn't notice or he and left that in the "Cons" :/
  
  I will quote it here for you:
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt]Quote: [/size]


> [size=10pt] [size=10pt]A big disappointment to me and some others pan or left/right balance, one of the two features that were originally discussed and later canceled is certainly missed. The second feature canceled that I liked and tested was the volume memory feature. This was when you turned the amp off to chat with someone and later repowered, it would start back up at zero volume and slowly increase the volume to where it was originally. I was told that it was later discarded as some people complained that it took too long with full sized headphones, although contrary to what the amp was designed for in my opinion, sensitive iem’s and customs. Of the two, I do wish Justin would have kept the ability to adjust the pan.[/size][/size]


 
[size=10pt] At this point all I can do is edit the "Cons" section and remove the "Eliminated features" :/[/size]
   
[size=10pt]On the db I quoted I did write it to be "an approximate," this is because I do not have the proper equipment to test it exact, I borrowed a digital sound level meter and the results were a little higher, so between that and a chart of sound presure levels I came up with the approximation. It is possible that the results were higher because of the sensitivity range adjustment, poor DSL meter or how I tested. I rather state a lower amount than higher and it may differ between different amps.[/size]


----------



## justin w.

sorry but I don't really feel this is valid criticism.  Part of Head-Fi & small vendors is (or at least was) that members had some engagement in the product design process or at least knew about products as they were being designed and had the ability to see and hear prototypes.  Your review tells me that I would be better off keeping this process closed and private.  I played around with different things, some didn't work.  The ability to pan is never something that existed, I had wanted to put it in, but in the interest of time, expense, and simplicity, I had to leave it out.  Would you rather not know about it?  You hit on this at another opportunity in your review saying it took 17 months to get the Pico Slim -- despite pre-ordering in December and shipping in April (4-5 months).  I assume you meant you were aware of the existence of the amp 17 months earlier, and are including it as time I kept you waiting.  Again, would you rather I didn't tell anyone about it or show prototypes?  That's how children have to be treated
   
[size=10pt]Quote:[/size]


> [size=10pt] [size=10pt]A big disappointment to me and some others pan or left/right balance, one of the two features that were originally discussed and later canceled is certainly missed. The second feature canceled that I liked and tested was the volume memory feature. This was when you turned the amp off to chat with someone and later repowered, it would start back up at zero volume and slowly increase the volume to where it was originally. I was told that it was later discarded as some people complained that it took too long with full sized headphones, although contrary to what the amp was designed for in my opinion, sensitive iem’s and customs. Of the two, I do wish Justin would have kept the ability to adjust the pan.[/size][/size]


----------



## Nebby

I think Justin brings up a good point, he was open with the development process and made a decision during that process that certain features wouldn't be added. As this was done during the development and not after the release of the product I don't see it as a proper "Con". It would be a proper "Con" if the features were removed after the amp was in production...
   
  I for one appreciated the open development process along with the feedback requested. Please keep up the openness with future product developments Justin! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Quote: 





walkgood said:


> [size=10pt]On the db I quoted I did write it to be "an approximate," this is because I do not have the proper equipment to test it exact, I borrowed a digital sound level meter and the results were a little higher, so between that and a chart of sound presure levels I came up with the approximation. It is possible that the results were higher because of the sensitivity range adjustment, poor DSL meter or how I tested. I rather state a lower amount than higher and it may differ between different amps.[/size]


 
  It's nice to provide an estimate, but 40-60db is a very large range to list. Every 3 db = 2x the loudness. Perhaps it would be better to simply measure the pop and list the voltage. Readers then could figure out the loudness that would result with their headphone.


----------



## WalkGood

Note that it was not included in the review and I did edit it out of the “Cons” but calling customers or potential customers “That's how children have to be treated,” is not any way for a professional to behave … 
 
I have found the products you make top notch, including the Slim’s build quality and it’s performance in the sweet spot, I believe I relayed that in my review. Furthermore I have found you to be very amicable during our brief meetings and I am happy with my original pico, thus I’m a bit surprised by your reply, am I not entitled to my opinion?
   
BTW I previously corrected the time factor per a readers comment, I must have had a brain fart but it originally stated "_Sure that seems like a long time to most people but in the beginning this was a concept that moved to a prototype and finally went into production, so this long wait time should not be the case with normal orders_..."
   
  Sure I understand you don't like the review, I didn't write it for you ... I bought one and wrote my honest opinions, thanks again for the comments on the pictures.
   
  Quote: 





justin w. said:


> sorry but I don't really feel this is valid criticism.  Part of Head-Fi & small vendors is (or at least was) that members had some engagement in the product design process or at least knew about products as they were being designed and had the ability to see and hear prototypes.  Your review tells me that I would be better off keeping this process closed and private.  I played around with different things, some didn't work.  The ability to pan is never something that existed, I had wanted to put it in, but in the interest of time, expense, and simplicity, I had to leave it out.  Would you rather not know about it?  You hit on this at another opportunity in your review saying it took 17 months to get the Pico Slim -- despite pre-ordering in December and shipping in April (4-5 months).  I assume you meant you were aware of the existence of the amp 17 months earlier, and are including it as time I kept you waiting.  Again, would you rather I didn't tell anyone about it or show prototypes?  That's how children have to be treated


----------



## WalkGood

Quote: 





nebby said:


> ... ...  It's nice to provide an estimate, but 40-60db is a very large range to list. Every 3 db = 2x the loudness. Perhaps it would be better to simply measure the pop and list the voltage. Readers then could figure out the loudness that would result with their headphone.


 

[size=11pt]Not an estimate but an approximation based from a test. An easier way to explain this is if you look at decibel levels of common sounds, you’ll note that 40 to 60 dB is similar to a normal conversation and in all honesty the pop is probably above the 60 dB level, I wanted to offer the benefit of my test not being perfect and that the “pop” may vary from amp to amp so I went with a range. The “pop” is actually painful to my ears thus my recommendation not to insert customs before you power the amp, why not try the test yourself and let us know your results … [/size]


----------



## Nebby

I think you should have clarified that's how you reached your 40 to 60 dB figure or at least just mention that the pop sounded loud to you.
   
  With my ER-4S (which are less sensitive than your ue11's) I hear the pop but it's not uncomfortably loud. Maybe when I get a chance I'll measure it,


----------



## WalkGood

[size=11pt]I wrote the review as honest as I could from someone who has nothing to gain or lose and isn't even in the business. Early on I had promised to come back and share it with others that asked my opinion, so I have. If you don’t hear a pop/thump with the ER•4S it’s probably because they’re 100 Ohm iem’s as it’s very faint with my 300 Ohm hd650s but that’s an unfair test based on what it was designed for. Maybe it’s more prevalent with the ER•4P’s which are only 27 Ohms, I don’t know. I believe it’s common knowledge that this amp was being designed for low impedance and highly sensitive iem’s and customs and this is why I tested it with the UE11’s. As with any gear your preformance and opinion may vary ...[/size]
  
  Quote: 





nebby said:


> I think you should have clarified that's how you reached your 40 to 60 dB figure or at least just mention that the pop sounded loud to you.
> 
> With my ER-4S (which are less sensitive than your ue11's) I hear the pop but it's not uncomfortably loud. Maybe when I get a chance I'll measure it,


----------



## Nebby

Oh I hear it and do appreciate your effort taken to write the review.


----------



## cooperpwc

WalkGood didn't actually review the Pico Slim as an amplifier but rather as a generic electronic device. Perhaps some comparisons would have helped. ("Scratches more easily than a delonghi kitchen blender"; "Hisses less than a Dirt Devil handvac".)  
   
  Those are nice photographs.


----------



## bcwang

Did you guys notice the pico slim changing a lot through burn-in?  I've only been using it a bit but it seems to have graininess to the sound and something about it is making singers sound nasally and lose the airy feeling I normally get with the tomahawk.  The focus is also not quite there, sounds being more diffuse.  It sounds like the soundstage is wide, maybe too wide, and things aren't placed away from you but really close.  I hope these are just things that will change with some burn-in.  Somehow the presentation is totally different from all my other amps.


----------



## WalkGood

[size=11pt]No changes with the Pico Slim that I’ve noticed and I have over 90 hours on it. Although I do not believe in equipment burn-in and do not attribute the qualities that you have stated to a portable amplifier unless it has sound enhancements within it. But I believe per the rules of headfi we’re not supposed to talk about burn-in … [/size]
   
[size=11pt]I believe the headphones you use will make the largest difference to those attributes you state. Many or most portable headphones do not necessarily need an amp and in my honest opinion a higher spend on headphones or iem's will deliver the most obvious improvement. Bad or meager sounding headphones or DAP’s will not benefit or improve sound quality if you amp them. You can read more of what I believe a portable amp can accomplish here.[/size]
   
[size=11pt]BTW I have added my Pico Slim review below my signature enjoy …[/size]


----------



## justin w.

Quote: 





bcwang said:


> Did you guys notice the pico slim changing a lot through burn-in?  I've only been using it a bit but it seems to have graininess to the sound and something about it is making singers sound nasally and lose the airy feeling I normally get with the tomahawk.  The focus is also not quite there, sounds being more diffuse.  It sounds like the soundstage is wide, maybe too wide, and things aren't placed away from you but really close.  I hope these are just things that will change with some burn-in.  Somehow the presentation is totally different from all my other amps.


 


  If the presentation is "totally different" make sure your cables are plugged in ALL THE WAY and you didnt turn on some EQ setting somewhere.


----------



## bcwang

Quote: 





justin w. said:


> If the presentation is "totally different" make sure your cables are plugged in ALL THE WAY and you didnt turn on some EQ setting somewhere.


 

 The cables are definitely plugged in all the way.  The presentation is wider and closer than the tomahawk.  I wonder if maybe the grain I'm hearing is the pico slim being much more detailed than the tomahawk and revealing flaws in the DAC I'm using.  It's just roughness in vocals which the tomahawk conveys very smoothly.  Maybe the tomahawk is too warm and thick rounding away the detail while the pico slim is very transparent and neutral.  The shure e4 which I hadn't used in a while is hyper detailed in the mids and it became obvious only when I tried this combo.  I'll have to do further listening to figure this out.


----------



## The Larch

I can see your point on the pan balance people who pre-ordered knew that it was not on the device but many people who were on the pre-order thread thought the device would have the volume memory.
  Quote: 





justin w. said:


> sorry but I don't really feel this is valid criticism.  Part of Head-Fi & small vendors is (or at least was) that members had some engagement in the product design process or at least knew about products as they were being designed and had the ability to see and hear prototypes.  Your review tells me that I would be better off keeping this process closed and private.  I played around with different things, some didn't work.  The ability to pan is never something that existed, I had wanted to put it in, but in the interest of time, expense, and simplicity, I had to leave it out.  Would you rather not know about it?  You hit on this at another opportunity in your review saying it took 17 months to get the Pico Slim -- despite pre-ordering in December and shipping in April (4-5 months).  I assume you meant you were aware of the existence of the amp 17 months earlier, and are including it as time I kept you waiting.  Again, would you rather I didn't tell anyone about it or show prototypes?  That's how children have to be treated
> 
> [size=10pt]Quote:[/size]
> 
> ...


----------



## WalkGood

Quote:


the larch said:


> I can see your point on the pan balance people who pre-ordered knew that it was not on the device but many people who were on the pre-order thread thought the device would have the volume memory.


 
   
[size=10pt]@ The Larch, I found out about pan/balance not being included during the concept to prototype stage when Justin decided that it would not be included and he posted that along with a reply to dfkt that he could adjust his balance before delivery by a predetermined dB if he wished, which dfkt passed on. The other feature “volume memory,” I found out after testing the prototype at a meet with my i7 & rockboxed clip and liking the feature. A few weeks later a headfi mod here posted that the feature would be removed from the production model due to complaints with large size headphones taking too long to get back to the original volume.[/size]
   
[size=10pt]That paragraph that you quote me on was not included in my review, furthermore I removed the blurb on the bullet point from the cons. I only stated it here because that is my opinion, "I was disappointed," thus the paragraph starting out with “A big disappointment to me … “ and didn’t state it was a disappointment to anyone else, only me …[/size]
   
[size=10pt]Once again a customers opinion or disappointment is no reason for a company owner to make a statement to prospective buyers or owners of his equipment "That's how children have to be treated." This is NOT customer service and issue resolution at it's best![/size]
   
[size=10pt]Nuff said ...[/size]


----------



## The Larch

Yes, I am saying that a lot of people entered the pre-order thinking that the volume memory would be there and more people knew that the pan balance would not be there.


----------



## elnero

WalkGood, I think you need to untwist your knickers a bit. Personally I agree with what Justin said, I read it as illustrating a point not as an insult directed at you or anyone else.


----------



## WalkGood

Quote: 





elnero said:


> WalkGood, I think you need to untwist your knickers a bit ...


 

  
  [size=medium]lol you guys kill me, I’m sure everyone would have loved the review if I’d given it a review like the original Pico, but as I was honest then I must remain honest about the slim. BTW forum comments don’t bother me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



[/size]


----------



## airwax

Quote: 





walkgood said:


> [size=medium]lol you guys kill me, I’m sure everyone would have loved the review if I’d given it a review like the original Pico, but as I was honest then I must remain honest about the slim. BTW forum comments don’t bother me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I agree. I really appreciate your review. Reviews are not made to only praise a product you like.


----------



## The Larch

The ABI review was good and for the most part positive, but did point out some cons that are obviously there.


----------



## elnero

Quote:


walkgood said:


> [size=medium]lol you guys kill me, I’m sure everyone would have loved the review if I’d given it a review like the original Pico, but as I was honest then I must remain honest about the slim. BTW forum comments don’t bother me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I wasn't referring to your review as such, it was in regards to your reaction to Justin's [size=10pt]"That's how children have to be treated" comment.[/size]


----------



## WalkGood

Quote: 





elnero said:


> I wasn't referring to your review as such, it was in regards to your reaction to Justin's [size=10pt]"That's how children have to be treated" comment.[/size]


 

 I'm surprised I have to explain ... the part of my post about the review was directed at him and his obvious displeasure about the review by his lengthy post and his numerous comments below the review. The part directed at you was "BTW forum comments don't bother me."


----------



## animalsrush

Just got my Pico Slim today. It has been a long time at least 7 months since i ordered it late April. My set up is Sony X connected to Slim via ALO Audio LOD and output to UM3X. I managed to listen to for 4-5 hrs today and here are my initial impressions:
   
   

 The build quality and finish are top notch. As a designer i should say Justin gets high marks. The product is well thought through.
 It is incredibly tiny. Bit afraid i may dislodge the volume pot
 There was no "WoW" factor. It is nothing against slim but a testament to how good the sound of Sony X is right out of the box. The sound with slim sounded bit better only if you were really looking for it. A casual listener will not be able to distinguish the sound out of HP of Sony Vs with Slim
 There are subtle differences which i heard which did make some difference. They were a) Wider Sound stage : Sony X has a bit congested sound stage b) No hiss c) The bass is bit deeper but not bloated. I had turn down the Clear bass setting on Sony X d) The instrument separation is bit wider as well
 The Volume pot on this is just brilliant. You can control the volume in such small steps which is very helpful in getting the output just right. I begin to listen the sound at about 9 'o' clock and it is too loud at 1'o' clock. But between than range there are so many steps that i can tune the volume to my taste . Nicely done Justin.
   
  I need to do more A and B testing to hear additional differences. But so far i like the combination.  Not sure if burn in will have affect or not but will keep you posted at about 100hrs . Now eagerly waiting for my ES5 and see how it pairs with Slim.  Not sure if anyone here has the combo ?
   
  PS: The pop when you the turn the amp on doesn't bother me. I just plug my IEMs once the amp is turned on ( as per the enclosed manual) . The same thing when you turn off as well.
   
  Thanks
  PC


----------



## estreeter

+1 for walkgood - I believe that he has expressed himself well, and suggest that some of us need to chill out.
   
  estreeter


----------



## cooperpwc

animalsrush, thanks for the excellent, detailed review.
   
  I have not heard the Pico Slim, just the original Pico which I liked very much, but I have some thoughts regarding the lack of significant 'WoW' factor.
   
  - The Pico Slim has capacitors and so it should benefit from burn in. I don't actually belong to the 'leave it to burn in for 100 hours and then listen' camp although you can do that. When I get a new amp, I just use it and enjoy it. If it takes a few weeks to burn in, so be it. But you can likely expect the sound to 'tighten up'  (especially the bass) and the soundstage to further widen.
   
  - The advantages of a quality amp increases with the quality of the source - specifically, the extent to which the source is 'clean' (i.e. devoid of signal path degradation). So for example, with IEMs, the difference between my Headsix and Stepdance is comparatively small with the iPhone 3GS line out and much greater with the iMod. Of course, hungry full size headphones will always benefit from using a good amp but a better source will still make a significant difference. I cannot comment on the Sony line out quality.
   
  - Lastly, the benefits of a quality amp increases with the quality of the IEM. My amps do a lot more with the ES5 than they did with the Triple-fi's when compared with my DAP headphone outs. So expect even greater advantage from the Pico Slim soon.
   
  The Pico Slim is conceptually very attractive with its digital volume control and diminuitive size. I am looking forward to your further thoughts once it is burned in and you can use it with the ES5.
   
  HPA has both the Pico Slim and ES5. I expect that we will also hear his thoughts soon.
   
  Looks like our initials are both "PC"...  Cheers!


----------



## animalsrush

Quote: 





cooperpwc said:


> animalsrush, thanks for the excellent, detailed review.
> 
> I have not heard the Pico Slim, just the original Pico which I liked very much, but I have some thoughts regarding the lack of significant 'WoW' factor.
> 
> ...


----------



## mythless

Today, I actually had an opportunity to have a brief comparison between the Pico Slim and the Arrow 2G, it's quite interesting.  You won't be disappointed if you have the Pico.


----------



## The Larch

I have the Arrow 1G and the Pico. I prefer the Arrow.


----------



## mythless

Sound wise and size the pico is better imo, but the features that the Arrow has are pretty neat, but I haven't had a lot of time to try them with different headphones, I just used the RE-252.


----------



## The Larch

The Pico is smaller but the Arrow has an input on the top and bottom. I don't think that the Pico has any advantage sound wise.


----------



## Armaegis

We had a meet recently with the Pico Slim and Arrow 2g in attendance. General impressions favoured the Pico all around. No versatility to speak of on the Pico really, but overall stronger performance in a smaller form factor (though sadly at a higher price).


----------



## WalkGood

Quote: 





armaegis said:


> We had a meet recently with the Pico Slim and Arrow 2g in attendance. General impressions favoured the Pico all around. No versatility to speak of on the Pico really, but overall stronger performance in a smaller form factor (though sadly at a higher price).


 


   I can't comment on the Arrow as I've not spent anytime with it but would like to know what you mean by your statement "overall stronger performance."


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





walkgood said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  When I heard the Arrow 2G, granted it was still on the first charge, but my Pico is on it's 4th charge, there was a very noticeable difference between the two.  So noticeable that if you were to blind fold me I can tell I was using two amps.  Reading the Arrow thread got me thinking.  Both have very different sound signatures.  While I can't really be definite on my answers a similar analogy would be, a honda civic (Arrow 2G) and a honda fit with turbo (Pico), size to performance ratio.  I would really need more time to analyze the two further.  But, from a very brief initial impression the Pico Slim is hard to beat, of course I am used to the Slim's signature.  But, in terms of spacious-ness/airness (sound staging), treble and mid extension and clarity the Pico is better.  That being said it's the difference between signatures, I would say the Pico is brighter sounding  and the Arrow is darker sounding.


----------



## Armaegis

Quote: 





walkgood said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 edit: Mythless beat me to it
   
  ie: people liked it better. A few words thrown around were "better control", "smoother response" and other hifi hocus pocus. Opinion was split whether it was worth the extra money over the Arrow, but the smaller form factor was a big appeal.


----------



## mythless

Form factor, the Pico is hard to beat.  It's smaller than a Sansa Fuze.


----------



## WalkGood

Quote: 





> Posted by *Armaegis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> edit: Mythless beat me to it
> 
> ie: people liked it better. A few words thrown around were "better control", "smoother response" and other *hifi hocus pocus*. Opinion was split whether it was worth the extra money over the Arrow, but the smaller form factor was a big appeal.


 

 lol "hifi hocus pocus" isn't very scientific and could be akin to snake oil, "people liked it better" sounds more realistic. If the words "better control and smoother response" are refering to the digital potentiometer then I could agree with those.


----------



## Currawong

"Better control" I'd suggest would be something akin to a lower output impedance and better damping in the amp. I've had the experience of bad control in an amp where the bass in full-sized headphones was exceptionally flabby and obviously not in control.  I suspect many opinions regarding the capabilities of amps are directly related to the overall frequency response with particular headphones and people may be mistaking differences, such as more treble suggesting more detail or less bass suggesting better control. However, even a quite small change in the overall "sound" of an amp can change people's impressions as to whether it's a pleasure to listen with or not. This irrespective of greater detail and better soundstage (as far as one can get with IEMs, which is usually from lower stereo crosstalk).
   
  I went into the city a few weeks ago and tried some Shure SR-440s and 840s with the Slim with unexpectedly good results. I need to go back in and try the noise cancelling Sony's again with and without the Slim.  I suspect that, being that they are internally amped, there will be little or no difference but it will be worth trying all the same I think.


----------



## cooperpwc

For a number of longer-term residents on here, Robert's amps just aren't in the running because of historical events. That's why this Arrow-Pico comparison doesnt resonate as much as one might otherwise expect.


----------



## mythless

Wouldn't that be true with Justin's amps as well?  I don't know who came out first but both makers are top notch.


----------



## cooperpwc

No. To the best of my knowledge, Justin's designs have always been original or fully attributed. He never got caught out by the 'mapmaker's trap'. 
Anyway, I'll stop there. Robert has a new company, new products and is entitled to a new start with new customers. I was just pointing out that some of us old folk aren't interested which can be seen in the newish clientelle of the Arrow. 

(End of digression.)


----------



## mythless

Ops, my apologies, I didn't read your last post very well.  Thanks for being easy on me on my foolishness.


----------



## Zuqi

Hi, I am looking for a portable amp for my HF-2, I am choosing between the pico and the pico slim, which one is more suitable? Thanks!


----------



## mythless

Well, the key difference in terms of sound between the Pico and the Pico Slim is that the Pico Slim is very neutral sounding and the Pico is very warm sounding.  The Pico Slim HF-2 was a very nice combination, but maybe adding some warmth wouldn't be too bad either.  Also there is a significant size difference.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





mythless said:


> Well, the key difference in terms of sound between the Pico and the Pico Slim is that the Pico Slim is very neutral sounding and the Pico is very warm sounding.  The Pico Slim HF-2 was a very nice combination, but maybe adding some warmth wouldn't be too bad either.  Also there is a significant size difference.


 

 Huh?  The Pico Slim is slightly warmer sounding than the Pico original, having compared the two side by side.  Regardless, either is fine with the HF-2.


----------



## Zuqi

Hi, headphoneaddict, have you compared pico with slim for hf-2? Thanks.

  
  Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





zuqi said:


> Hi, headphoneaddict, have you compared pico with slim for hf-2? Thanks.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 

 I have tried both amps with HF-2, just not at the same time side by side.


----------



## dfkt

Quote: 





cooperpwc said:


> No. To the best of my knowledge, Justin's designs have always been original or fully attributed. He never got caught out by the 'mapmaker's trap'.
> Anyway, I'll stop there. Robert has a new company, new products and is entitled to a new start with new customers. I was just pointing out that some of us old folk aren't interested which can be seen in the newish clientelle of the Arrow.
> 
> (End of digression.)


 

 What is that supposed to mean? I have no idea what's those insinuations are meant to say.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote: 





dfkt said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 ...oh boy, here we go.
   
  My Slim is up FS btw.


----------



## cooperpwc

@dfkt: I'm on vacation so I havent had time to reply to your pm. But since you're so impatient, search around and figure it out yourself.


----------



## dfkt

At least I see how fast it's acting behind the scenes...


----------



## cooperpwc

A few PM's later, It's all good. Life moves on and so should we.


----------



## mythless

Really?  That's odd.  I've read both reviews from headfonia on the Pico and Pico Slim, they commented that, IIRC, the Pico has a slight tube signature while the Slim is very neutral.  That's where I got the opinions from.
  
  Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Armaegis

Although there's no guarantee that a "tubey sound" is warm...


----------



## GreatDane

Quote: 





armaegis said:


> Although there's no guarantee that a "tubey sound" is warm...


 

  
  Very true. I think the term "tubey sounding" gets used (abused) to often.


----------



## WalkGood

Quote: 





greatdane said:


> ... My Slim is up FS btw.


 
   
  First you sold the origional, which btw I love and now the slim. I know why you sold the fist but if you don't mind me asking, why are you selling your slim so soon?


----------



## GreatDane

Quote: 





walkgood said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  PM sent.


----------



## WalkGood

Quote: 





greatdane said:


> PM sent.


 

 Thanks for the info ...


----------



## Armaegis

I mean to post these up a while ago; just a simple size comparison between the slim and arrow...


----------



## The Larch

Wow the Arrow G2 looks nice.


----------



## bcwang

Quote: 





greatdane said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Please let me know too


----------



## GreatDane

Quote: 





bcwang said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  OK, the *following is exactly what I sent to WalkGood...just so everyone knows.lol. It's no big deal.I plan to try to sell Slim officially @ $365...I paid $385 IIRC. The catch is that the charge LED doesn't work but I figure since it has a lifetime warranty, no big deal. I assume the warranty is transferable??? Justin has offered to fix it but I've been to lazy to send it in and then the wait...........................................(one month later)....lol. The battery charges fine so I just don't get to see when it tops off. I leave it plugged in overnight which I'd probably do anyway.
   
   
   
   
  *I don't dislike the Slim really. I'm not in love with it either. I just like to try different amps, which is obvious if you've seen my list in my profile. I don't want to collect too many amps. I want to try the Stepdance. The funds from Slim would go towards this.
   
  I decided between selling the Slim & SR-71A and Pico lost. Eventually I'll put up an official FS ad but I'm in no hurry.


----------



## HelloHell

Quote: 





greatdane said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  You may want to wait for the SR-71B... which will come out before Xmas and kick every other portable amp's ass...


----------



## GreatDane

Quote: 





hellohell said:


> You may want to wait for the SR-71B... which will come out before Xmas and kick every other portable amp's ass...


 


  And you know this because it is already out and has been compared to every other amp??


----------



## WalkGood

Quote: 





greatdane said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  ROFLMAO, GreatDane remember this is headfi, your allowed to predict the future but Jah forbid you mention science 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Back on topic, I've been using the method of turning on amp before plugging in my iem's and it works fine (no pop/thump) but it's so awkward to do this and only with this amp[size=10pt], I almost forget every time I use the slim. I don't even do that with my old pico or any other amp for that matter ...[/size]


----------



## deniall83

5 minutes away from ordering a pico slim but I have a few questions.
   
  How would this amp sound paired with Ortofon e-Q7's?
  Does the charger work in the UK?
  What is the best cable to use to connect my iPod? Price isn't really a concern.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## mythless

I never heard the e-q7 but it should pair well.  The pico slim, imo, is quite neutral and smooth.  You can get the plug adapter for the UK and it should work IIRC from way back from the preorder period.  I use a fiio LOD for my fuze and it works perfectly fine.  There are tons of choices out there.


----------



## deniall83

I appreciate the reply.
   
  Does the quality of the LOD have a dramatic effect on sound quality?
  
  Quote: 





mythless said:


> I never heard the e-q7 but it should pair well.  The pico slim, imo, is quite neutral and smooth.  You can get the plug adapter for the UK and it should work IIRC from way back from the preorder period.  I use a fiio LOD for my fuze and it works perfectly fine.  There are tons of choices out there.


----------



## mythless

It does a bit, as it passes the amplifier part of the Fuze.  The main reason why I bought the L6 fiio was a) fairly inexpensive and b) I thought I would get more battery life as I wouldn't need to crank the volume up but the L6 drains a lot of life out of the fuze.  I use an inexpensive LOD so I can't comment if there is a drastic effect on SQ.  But, I would rather use it than a mini to mini, and for less than $20 buck why the hell not!  lol


----------



## justin w.

Quote: 





deniall83 said:


> 5 minutes away from ordering a pico slim but I have a few questions.
> 
> How would this amp sound paired with Ortofon e-Q7's?
> Does the charger work in the UK?
> ...


 

 the charger works in the UK and comes with a UK plug.  i offer the Whiplash TWag LOD, which is very low profile and has a right-angle plug making it convenient to plug into the Pico Slim.  not cheap though..


----------



## greenmac

I currently listen to my IPOD Classic via Fiio E7 and Senn IE8
   
  All tracks lossless
   
  Just bought a Pico Slim and cant wait to try it out
   
  Will I hear a big difference ??


----------



## GreatDane

Quote: 





greenmac said:


> I currently listen to my IPOD Classic via Fiio E7 and Senn IE8
> 
> All tracks lossless
> 
> ...


 

 Only you can answer that question.  Congrats!


----------



## greenmac

ANSWER = yes !!!

Arrived today and absolutely love it 

How small is this thing, awesome

Jon


----------



## airwax

How long is the list in case you want to order this thing? Is it still months of waiting?


----------



## Currawong

I think Justin posted that he's got it down to a month or less, by changing one of his suppliers.


----------



## shotgunshane

I'm considering buying the pico slim and am wondering if it helps bring out iem dynamics at lower volumes? I have UM2 and TF10 IEMs paired with an iPhone 4 and a nano 2g. My IEMs sound great but I must listen at louder levels to really enjoy the bass impact. I'm hoping amping them will allow me to enjoy those dynamics at a lower volume.


----------



## bcwang

Quote: 





shotgunshane said:


> I'm considering buying the pico slim and am wondering if it helps bring out iem dynamics at lower volumes? I have UM2 and TF10 IEMs paired with an iPhone 4 and a nano 2g. My IEMs sound great but I must listen at louder levels to really enjoy the bass impact. I'm hoping amping them will allow me to enjoy those dynamics at a lower volume.


 


  Well I can tell you that at the same perceived volume level, I feel the pico slim adds more dynamics and bass impact than straight out of the iphone 4 and ipod 5th generation.  This is not something that can be compensated for with additional volume straight out of the DAPs, the slim definitely holds a strong lead.  There is also additional clarity overall.  I know people keep saying certain headphones don't improve much from an amp, but every headphone I've tried improves greatly from the slim vs straight out of those two DAPs.  Even sensitive, easy to drive ones that I can listen to at a volume level of 1 on the iphone or ipod, they still greatly benefit from the slim.


----------



## shotgunshane

Thanks for the feedback. Do you feel you can now listen to your music say 15% to 20% quieter and still enjoy those benefits?

The other amp I'm considering is the Arrow but the size of the Pico and volume control definitely have me leaning towards it's purchase.


----------



## bcwang

Quote: 





shotgunshane said:


> Thanks for the feedback. Do you feel you can now listen to your music say 15% to 20% quieter and still enjoy those benefits?
> 
> The other amp I'm considering is the Arrow but the size of the Pico and volume control definitely have me leaning towards it's purchase.


 

 I'd say those benefits are present throughout all the volume range, in fact it might be even more apparent at lower volumes as it stands out even more compared to the sloppy handling by the DAP itself.  Plus, the insane volume control capability of the Slim makes low volume listening very possible with IEMs which was not possible with other devices before.
   
  I think I should update my review of the slim with more info now that I've spent even more time with it.  But you can find it and read more about my impressions if you search "incremental review pico slim"


----------



## shotgunshane

Excellent review bcwang.  That was truly one of the most helpful reviews I've read on head-fi.  Guess I'll be buying a pico slim soon!


----------



## Zuqi

I also read the review and have the same doubt, maybe the difference is due to the gear people use, or the sound of pico and slim are quite similar
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
   
  Quote:


mythless said:


> Really?  That's odd.  I've read both reviews from headfonia on the Pico and Pico Slim, they commented that, IIRC, the Pico has a slight tube signature while the Slim is very neutral.  That's where I got the opinions from.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





zuqi said:


> I also read the review and have the same doubt, maybe the difference is due to the gear people use, or the sound of pico and slim are quite similar
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  I did some of the comparisons at CanJam 2009 with an iMod and Piccolino LOD as source (heard Pico Slim vs Pico vs P-51).  The next time I compared them was after I received my Pico Slim, using an iPhone 3GS and TWag LOD + a Pico DAC-only as source. 
   
  Both times I felt the Pico Slim was warmer like the P-51, but smoother and less aggressive like the Pico - kinda like a cross between the two.  I told Justin that my one complaint about the Pico was it needed to sound a little warmer like the P-51, and that he accomplished that perfectly.  At CanJam I thought that the Pico Slim could replace my P-51 and Pico both, and eventually it did once I received it.  By the time I got the Slim I had reduced myself to only carrying an iBasso T3 amp with me, because everything else was just too big for every day carry.  Now the Slim is the only one I have in my pocket when I go out.


----------



## kiwirugby

Me too....although every once in a while I'll go back to the P-51 or Shadow.....there's always something about those two that I enjoy and maybe it's the warmth they both bring, more so for me than the Pico Slim which i still use the most.  I am glad I still have the three.   I must go back and try Xin's Micro....   Incredible how small these amps have become....and have such extraordinary sound.
   
  I'm glad you suggested that Justin bring some warmth to the Slim.  With it's transparency/clarity/analytical abilities with some warmth added in we have a true winner for me.  It was a long wait though......


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





kiwirugby said:


> Me too....although every once in a while I'll go back to the P-51 or Shadow.....there's always something about those two that I enjoy and maybe it's the warmth they both bring, more so for me than the Pico Slim which i still use the most.  I am glad I still have the three.   I must go back and try Xin's Micro....   Incredible how small these amps have become....and have such extraordinary sound.
> 
> I'm glad you suggested that Justin bring some warmth to the Slim.  With it's transparency/clarity/analytical abilities with some warmth added in we have a true winner for me.  It was a long wait though......


 

 Well, I don't think my suggestions had anything to do with it.  Justin comes up with good ideas all on his own.


----------



## Currawong

Speaking of carrying gear, I was given a "man bag" for Xmas, which has plenty of pockets.  There are a few pockets that would make it possible for me to carry my iPhone and the Slim, so I might have to start doing that for when I feel like listening to music.  Now all I need is pair of JH-13s to complete the picture.


----------



## Jalo

Love to see a picture of that "man Bag".  I love bag, big bag, small bag, gadget bag, bags with lots of pocket


----------



## OPTiK

I've been thinking about getting a pico slim to tone down some harshness my iphone 4 is putting through on my JH16's. Can anyone comment on this? I wouldn't mind a low end bump either. I had a pico dac/balanced protector setup before which sounded really good but have since moved into listening to music on my phone since its way easier than carrying a bunch of components around. Also the iphone 4 sounds just as good as udac to me which has been compared to the pico dac only.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





optik said:


> I've been thinking about getting a pico slim to tone down some harshness my iphone 4 is putting through on my JH16's. Can anyone comment on this? I wouldn't mind a low end bump either. I had a pico dac/balanced protector setup before which sounded really good but have since moved into listening to music on my phone since its way easier than carrying a bunch of components around. Also the iphone 4 sounds just as good as udac to me which has been compared to the pico dac only.


 

 For what you are looking for I think you will find the Pico Slim will give you that - it's less aggressive than the iPhone 4 headphone out, with better deep bass extension and impact, and a bigger soundstage (using line out dock).  I agree the iPhone 4 headphone out isn't bad, but the Slim does offer improvements.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





currawong said:


> Speaking of carrying gear, I was given a "man bag" for Xmas, which has plenty of pockets.  There are a few pockets that would make it possible for me to carry my iPhone and the Slim, so I might have to start doing that for when I feel like listening to music.  Now all I need is pair of JH-13s to complete the picture.


 
  When I was a kid I had a man bag, before they were popular. I had a neighbor who used to go to Africa and kill animals (didn't think much about it then, can't stand it now). He gave me a tanned scrotum of a buffalo. It was an instant bag. I never did figure out what happened to it but it got lost over the years.  . . . . hey, there goes a fruit bat, love those guys.


----------



## Currawong

http://item.rakuten.co.jp/fukuraikan/2903-01/
   
  Took me a while to find it -- mine is the Khaki one. The front pockets easily hold my iPod 160GB plus the Slim strapped on in its case and I can sit my Plantronics bluetooth earpiece neatly in its pocket, which slots neatly in the pen pocket between the front pockets. I think the main pocket will just about hold the HeadRoom Portable Desktop.
   
  When I head into the city, I take my portable rig with an adaptor for trying out IEMs and other headphones. While the Slim wasn't designed for full-sized cans, I can at least get a basic idea about their tonal balance.  It doesn't do badly at all.


----------



## kiwirugby

Quote: 





> He gave me a tanned scrotum of a buffalo.


 

 Can one safely assume that the buffalo spent many hours sunning on his back?  Or, just really low hanging?   Any idea of the SPF the buffalo used?   Portable listening gear?


----------



## mythless

Despite the Pico Slim taking a back seat with newer amplifiers, it is still a strong performer.  I don't think there is a "better" sounding amp for it's size.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote: 





mythless said:


> Despite the Pico Slim taking a back seat with newer amplifiers, it is still a strong performer.  I don't think there is a "better" sounding amp for it's size.


 

 Are there even any other (high quality) amps this size or smaller? (so please don't include FiiO )


----------



## kiwirugby

I think the RSA Mustang P51 is up there with the Pico Slim, maybe with P51 a tad warmer.  The RSA Shadow also.  (Nice little package with the Nano 6!)   I have to tell you that Xin's SuperMicro never ceases to amaze me.....as much as Xin's disappearance!...but maybe not quite the P51 or Shadow, although sometimes I have me doubts....


----------



## GreatDane

I wish I still had my SuperMini IV to compare to Pico Slim but as I recall it isn't as small. I remember being disappointed by the cheap look and feel for the $200(IIRC).I have no memory of how it sounded.
   
  The Pico Slim in its leather case looks and feels like a high-end piece of gear despite its tiny size...that case really sets it off.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





kiwirugby said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> > He gave me a tanned scrotum of a buffalo.
> ...


 
  I don't know, I think it was before SPF was out. More like Copper Tone but if that be the case, I am not sure who rubbed it on. On the other hand, . . if it be tanned, as in tanned leather, maybe it wasn't but was beat with a heavy stick until soft, which is a method long employed, though after said scrotum was removed since it is hard to outrun a pissed off buffalo. I had a woman friend who wanted to use the latter method on her meat headed husband a few times. 
   
  I haven't listened to my SuperMini for some time. The version prior to the IV was the best sounding, IMO.


----------



## kiwirugby

Quote: 





greatdane said:


> I wish I still had my SuperMini IV to compare to Pico Slim but as I recall it isn't as small. I remember being disappointed by the cheap look and feel for the $200(IIRC).I have no memory of how it sounded.
> 
> The Pico Slim in its leather case looks and feels like a high-end piece of gear despite its tiny size...that case really sets it off.


 

 You're right, the SuperMini does look cheap, very cheap!  Absolutely no comparison to the build and looks of the Pico Slim.  But the mini's innards sure gave us some great sound.  Still does.  I'm not sure I would part with it.
   
  Actually, the SuperMini is slightly smaller in terms of volume.   Quick and rough measurements put the mini at 22.5 cubic cms compared to 28 cubic cms for the Slim, so the mini about 20% smaller.  It's how thick is the mini (1.8 cm) that makes it more difficult as a portable, believe it or not, let alone the plastic case.   I had a hard time making the Nano 6 work with the mini....but fun none the same.  The RSA P51 works with the Nano 6 much better in terms of form.  Amazing how small technology has become...


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





greatdane said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Not really, none that I can think of.  I got an interesting review coming up with the Headstage with a comparison with the Pico Slim, well maybe not all that interesting.  Intriguing, maybe.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





> Not really, none that I can think of.  I got an interesting review coming up with the Headstage with a comparison with the Pico Slim, well maybe not all that interesting.  Intriguing, maybe.


 
   
  I'm looking forward to your comparison of these two amps. I have owned the Headstage Arrow for some time but just recently purchased the Slim out of sheer curiosity. I've not had time yet to do a thorough comparison worthy of posting.


----------



## GreatDane

I'd like to read both of your comparisons. I was recently considering the Headstage amp for a secondary rig but decided against it...for now.


----------



## mythless

As a short tid bit, if you have either or I don't see really see it is necessary to have both.  Size, features, and sonic qualities are addressed.  But, I guess most people are interested in the sonic qualities?  As size and features are on opposite scales of the spectrum for the two.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I ordered a SuperMini IV two years ago, and in Jan 2010 Xin said it would ship in a month.  That was the last I heard from him.  The credit card I used to order has now expired, so I'll just keep enjoying my Slim...


----------



## Jalo

Thank God for expiration date.  I ordered the Reference around 9/07 and now also enjoying the Slim without worrying my card being charged by some unknown party.  With the advances in portable amp development in the past two years, I doubt if the Xin amp can keep up anyway.


----------



## cooperpwc

Xin did actually come back to me about a year ago and asked me if I still wanted the Xin Reference that I had ordered a couple of years earlier. I didn't...


----------



## Jalo

Quote: 





cooperpwc said:


> Xin did actually come back to me about a year ago and asked me if I still wanted the Xin Reference that I had ordered a couple of years earlier. I didn't...


 

 You are smart, very smart.  See what happened if you did? you still won't get the Reference anyway.  Have you seen a single new Xin Reference received and reviewed on headfi in the past year?  In other words, if you declined to take his offer, he would have or should have sold it to another customer.  But nobody has indicated that they have received any products in the last year or two including repairs.  In fact, there was one headfier who actually paid his order but I still have to hear that he has received his order.  All I can say is WOW and WOW.  I never cease to amaze at how tolerant people are on these forum with these kind of behavior and yet we could be so intolerant and ready to flip the second the word cable is mentioned


----------



## cooperpwc

Jalo, I think that you are right.
   
  I just checked my emails and it was actually January 2009. So that's two years! The email was very nice - and apologetic - but the world had moved on and so had I.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Holy Cow, you're right!  It was Jan 2009!!!  I ordered in 2008.
   
  -----------------------------------------------


> [size=medium]  [size=medium]From: [/size][size=medium]"Xin Feng" <support@fixup.net>[/size]
> [size=medium]Date: [/size][size=medium]January 9, 2009 7:27:14 PM MST[/size]
> [size=medium]To: [/size][size=medium]"Larry Ganz" <xxxxxxx@usa.net>[/size]
> [size=medium]Subject: [/size][size=medium]Re: Receipt 4063xxxx + Receipt 4101xxxx from Xin Feng Company[/size]
> ...


----------



## cooperpwc

Interestng. So January 2009 was a time of contact. My order was in June 2007 when the Reference was first released.. But he did offer to actually ship!
   
  --------------------------
   
  [size=medium]Hi,[/size]
   
  [size=medium]Sorry for so long but finally ready to ship. Do you still want it? Any change such as address? If you used credit card and need to update it, please use this link: ...[/size]
   
  [size=medium]Thank you,[/size]
  [size=medium]Xin[/size]


----------



## mythless

And some people complained about the wait time of the Pico Slim haha


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





mythless said:


> And some people complained about the wait time of the Pico Slim haha


 

 Like I said Justin is much faster - the time from ordering to shipping is a tiny fraction of Xin's times.


----------



## pekingduck

Got a chance last week to try out the Pico Slim with my iPhone 4 and JH13's. Everything was great except the bass was a bit boomy. Is it just me?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





pekingduck said:


> Got a chance last week to try out the Pico Slim with my iPhone 4 and JH13's. Everything was great except the bass was a bit boomy. Is it just me?


 

 No, I've posted the same thing a few times.  My ES3X and ES5 are a much better pairing.


----------



## Jalo

Quote: 





pekingduck said:


> Got a chance last week to try out the Pico Slim with my iPhone 4 and JH13's. Everything was great except the bass was a bit boomy. Is it just me?


 

 I have the nano6, Slim, and JH13 and it doesn't sound boomy at all.  I suspect that it is either the iphone 4 or the music.  Is it the stock cable that you used?


----------



## pekingduck

Yes it was the stock cable.
  
  Quote: 





jalo said:


> I have the nano6, Slim, and JH13 and it doesn't sound boomy at all.  I suspect that it is either the iphone 4 or the music.  Is it the stock cable that you used?


----------



## Jalo

Quote: 





pekingduck said:


> Yes it was the stock cable.


 

 Well in that case it's easy, just isolate the component one at a time and you'll find out the source of your problems.


----------



## The Larch

Quote: 





pekingduck said:


> Yes it was the stock cable.


 

 Cryo that bitch!


----------



## sfzero

I'd like to say that the pico slim is really nice. It's really convenient to carry with and it works excellent with my se535 and x1050.


----------



## cooperpwc

Well I just bit the bullet and ordered the Pico Slim to use with my new Solo and the ES5. I was thinking of getting the TTVJ Slim which I have heard and liked; it has a sweet sound signature. Anyway I decided against adding that quality to the Solo which I feel already has a nicely balanced sound (with the neutral Stepdance). By most accounts the Pico Slim is the faster choice (the TTVJ was just a bit lacking in that regard IMHO) and my best hope to keep a fairly neutral, crisp and transparent presentation with the Solo in a slim package. Oh, and the volume control...
   
  Also HPA likes the synergy of the Pico Slim with the ES5. I feel that I can bank on that.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Lastly, kudos to Justin for offering $35 USPS shipping to China. At TTVJ, the shipping was $110 by UPS! You can phone them to see if they might offer something less insane. I didn't get around to it.  (Sometimes I wonder if retailers take the time to consider how that kind of nonsense is perceived by potential international customers. Nobody wants to be an afterthought and that sure is how it feels.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





cooperpwc said:


> Well I just bit the bullet and ordered the Pico Slim to use with my new Solo and the ES5. I was thinking of getting the TTVJ Slim which I have heard and liked; it has a sweet sound signature. Anyway I decided against adding that quality to the Solo which I feel already has a nicely balanced sound (with the neutral Stepdance). By most accounts the Pico Slim is the faster choice (the TTVJ was just a bit lacking in that regard IMHO) and my best hope to keep a fairly neutral, crisp and transparent presentation with the Solo in a slim package. Oh, and the volume control...
> 
> Also HPA likes the synergy of the Pico Slim with the ES5. I feel that I can bank on that.
> 
> ...


 

 You wont be disappointed in the Pico Slim with ES5.


----------



## animalsrush

*cooperpwc: *You will love PICO slim with ES5. I think it completes the system


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote: 





animalsrush said:


> *cooperpwc: *You will love PICO slim with ES5. I think it completes the system


 

 Glad to hear it! I'm pumped (and waiting)...


----------



## aLm0sT

I'm still kinda indecisive if I should get the Pico Slim or not. People have been raving about how good it sounds with JH IEM's.
  Wonder if it really is THAT good..


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





alm0st said:


> I'm still kinda indecisive if I should get the Pico Slim or not. People have been raving about how good it sounds with JH IEM's.
> Wonder if it really is THAT good..


 

 Well, I've posted from the beginning that it sounded better with my ES3X than JH13pro, and likewise it's better with my ES5 as well.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





cooperpwc said:


> Lastly, kudos to Justin for offering $35 USPS shipping to China. At TTVJ, the shipping was $110 by UPS! You can phone them to see if they might offer something less insane. I didn't get around to it.  (Sometimes I wonder if retailers take the time to consider how that kind of nonsense is perceived by potential international customers. Nobody wants to be an afterthought and that sure is how it feels.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Is the irony of cooperpwc's position lost on other HeadFiers ? I dont see the problem here as being one of Todd's making - surely its UPS who are to blame. iBasso will have my P4 here to me in country Oz in 2-3 days for $18 shipping fee - thats Shenzhen to Sydney to my home in the 'bush' in 3 days.
   
  When you consider that many of the components in the TTVJ Slim (or Ray's amps or Roberts or any of the Schiit amps) almost certainly came from China/Taiwan in the first place, we have a situation where the courier companies are adding large slabs to the manufacturing costs of each amp, then turning around and making a killing on the delivery to the customer. I seem to recall Ray mentioning that he routinely throws out a considerable percentage of parts to ensure that he only uses those that make the grade - whether you dismiss that as marketing, its not difficult to accept that some of that freight is spent on dud components. Something to think about the next time you are asking yourself why the American/European amps are considerably more expensive than the Chinese competition.
   
  Please note that I'm not targetting anyone beyond the freight companies here, and I doubt that Todd would simply have told cooperpwc that he had no other choices if he had contacted TTVJ. Our local airlines have just announced that they will be increasing fares in line with the carbon tax and the increasing price of fuel, and I suspect that the days of cheap expedited delivery from China may be numbered. Better order something from Ming Da while I can still afford the shipping costs


----------



## cooperpwc

Estreeter, I really don't disagree with what you said. To be clear, I purchased the Pico Slim because that is the amp I wanted. Justin made it easier by thinking about the needs of me, the international buyer. And I say Kudos to that!  As regards TTVJ, my only "
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




" is that they choose UPS to do their international shipping. Fedex would do the same for less than $60 (for example, I just got the Solo that way) and USPS under $40. UPS is notorious for wildly expensive treatment of international shipments. They used to hit the receiver with a bill for the third party customs broker; now I think that it is incorporated in the therefore wild fees. If I were an audio retailer, I would be embarassed to have someone go to checkout on a $350 amp on my website and be told that shipping is $110. It makes the customer feel unimportant. That's all. 
   
  As for what I call the "Trans-Pacific Shuffle", that is my story here. I am a Canadian in Shanghai who routinely orders products from the North America and Europe that were manufactured in China. It's a lifestyle.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





cooperpwc said:


> As for what I call the "Trans-Pacific Shuffle", that is my story here. I am a Canadian in Shanghai who routinely orders products from the North America and Europe that were manufactured in China. It's a lifestyle.


 
   
  No problem - I can only assume that the money on offer in Shanghai is sufficient to make up for the cold Winters. I've never been further north than Guilin/Yangshou, and when I was told that it snows there in Winter I got back on the next plane to Hong Kong 
   
  I'm not suggesting that you should have bought one amp over another - I have been eyeing off the original Pico for many months but voted with my wallet this time around. If I felt more secure in my job, it may have been different, but these are 'interesting times' in the Chinese sense.
   
  On the freight issue, iBasso must be getting a very good deal with whoever is shipping their amps - that or they just amortize the cost back into the sticker price of their amps. Either way, its a good deal from my experience with the D4. Enjoy your amp.


----------



## justin w.

estreeter,
   
  It is far cheaper to ship from China to the USA than it is to ship from USA to China.  I don't know why.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





justin w. said:


> estreeter,
> 
> It is far cheaper to ship from China to the USA than it is to ship from USA to China.  I don't know why.


 

 Weird - extra customs processing on gear coming into the US, perhaps ?


----------



## cooperpwc

My new Pico Slim is well past 50 hours and the treble (which was a bit overwhelming at first) has tamed nicely. The clarity and detail of this amp is quite remarkable. It has a bit less bass impact than the (huge and power hungry) Stepdance but the bass goes very deep. I am listening to REM's Moral Kiosk and the deep bass notes plunge into the depths.
   
  The volume control is something special. I will call it perfect since I cannot imagine how it can be improved. I am usually listening at about 10:30 with the ES5. I love how I can gradually turn it right down. (Some people find this bottom swing a negative?) 
   
  As for battery life, well, I will comment when I finally have to recharge it. 
   
  The soundstage is the big and pleasant surprise. Emphasis on "big"... It is really making the most of the Solo's excellent imaging.
   
  Very early impressions: a lovely little amp.


----------



## kiwirugby

Quote: 





cooperpwc said:


> The soundstage is the big and pleasant surprise. Emphasis on "big"... It is really making the most of the Solo's excellent imaging.


 


  This is exactly my experience too.   As I wait for my JH-3A, I am using the Slim with the Solo and 7G iPod Classic.   I've been doing this for weeks now and really like what the Solo adds ("excellent imaging") to the Slim, or rather how well the sound together.


----------



## The Larch

Quote: 





cooperpwc said:


> My new Pico Slim is well past 50 hours and the treble (which was a bit overwhelming at first) has tamed nicely.


 


  Burn in has increased my treble! Oh NOes!


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





justin w. said:


> estreeter,
> 
> It is far cheaper to ship from China to the USA than it is to ship from USA to China.  I don't know why.


 

 I would imagine volume and they want to make solid inroads and get very well established. After all, look at the market. Since I lived there from 2005 to 07, they have, UPS that is, made improvements in service and have expanded. And so it goes. Even if the cost for shipping from the US to China was the same actual cost, they would make the shipping from China as cheap as possible to make sure they get the business and consider it an investment in the current and future market. 
   
  China does the same here in Pohnpei. The US gives Micronesia 92 million a year and will do so until 2023. China comes here and builds a gym and a large government building and puts in a pilot farm for maybe a total of 1.5 million but everyone sees these things and forgets that the US pays all of the government wages and is 90 percent of the GNP. So it is business. China makes inroads here for a little cost and UPS makes inroads into China at a little cost. 
   
  Now back to amplifiers. :^)


----------



## cooperpwc

I probably reached ~55 hours and while the Pico Slim is still going strong, enough is enough. I go to charge.
   
  Anyone know if the lithium-polymer battery has certain maintenance requirements? Lithium ion batteries are best fully discharged once a month and also should not be left fully charged for long periods of time. I understand that lithium polymer batteries should not be deep discharged and I assume that the Pico Slim prevents this. Should it be discharged to its lowest available level from time to time?
   
  Edit: zilch0md just posted this in the Stepdance thread (in relation to the Energizer XP8000):
   
  Quote:


> Like so many rechargeable chemistries, Lithium Polymer batteries don't like to be deep-cycled. If you shallow-cycle a LiPo battery, you'll get a lot more use of the battery before it has to be replaced altogether - and the increase in the number of useful cycles is not inversely proportional to the depth of discharge. For example, if testing revealed that a battery pack could be discharged to a depth of 50% for a total of 500 cycles, one might think you would enjoy only 1000 cycles by discharging to only 75% each time. In reality, you might get something like 5000 cycles by discharging to a depth of 75% each cycle vs. 50%.


 
   
  If so, it sounds like charging the Pico Slim often is the way to go.


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote: 





kiwirugby said:


> This is exactly my experience too.   As I wait for my JH-3A, I am using the Slim with the Solo and 7G iPod Classic.   I've been doing this for weeks now and really like what the Solo adds ("excellent imaging") to the Slim, or rather how well the sound together.


 

 It realy is something. I just listened to Cowboy Junkies' Trinity Session from beginning to end. (I can't remember the last time that I did that.) It's a fascinating recording because they performed the album live in a church. You can actually hear the background ambient hush. The microphone placement is very precise and realsitic. The Solo + Pico Slim + ES5 was putting all the sounds in pinpoint location but it also all integrated beautifully.
   
  I think that as of today I have become fully accustomed to that litle extra treble energy of the Pico Slim as compared with the Stepdance. The Stepdance is still the king of smooth but the Pico Slim is unabashedly crisp and realsitic. I am really enjoying the sound signature. After going back and forth between the amps for a couple of hours last night, I made the transition. It is fair to say that the Pico Slim is now my main ES5 amp.
   
  Of course, with the portability and the low volume control, (not to mention battery life), it is a no brainer. But the Pico Slim stands up extremely well on sound quality. It is different but superb. Highly enjoyable. A keeper.


----------



## AVU

This is simply the best amp I've heard for my JH-13s, hand's down.


----------



## kiwirugby

Quote: 





avu said:


> This is simply the best amp I've heard for my JH-13s, hand's down.


 

  
  X2.   Makes the wait for the JH-3A bearable.


----------



## corso

[size=medium]Hi every one,
   
  It is possible for you to take a picture of the two side of the electronique board.
   
  thanks,​[/size]


----------



## cooperpwc

corso, Justin posted these before but just the one side.


----------



## corso

Yes I know ^ ^, but I would see the other side of the electronique board (PCB).
   
  If anyone could do this for me I would appreciate it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Thank you,


----------



## justin w.

Quote: 





corso said:


> Yes I know ^ ^, but I would see the other side of the electronique board (PCB).
> 
> If anyone could do this for me I would appreciate it.
> 
> ...


 

 There isn't much of interest on the other side


----------



## The Larch

I have a photo of a naked lady on the other side of mine


----------



## corso

Le mélèze tu es très drôle XD
   
   
  C'est pour voir la qualité des chemins de cuivre sur la carte électronique, la grosseure et d'autres caractéristiques.
   
  S'il y a quelqu'un d'assez aimable pour prendre une photo du deuxieme côté de la carte électronique se serais super !
   
  @+


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





corso said:


> Le mélèze tu es très drôle XD
> 
> 
> C'est pour voir la qualité des chemins de cuivre sur la carte électronique, la grosseure et d'autres caractéristiques.
> ...


 
   

   
  Quote: 





> Larch you're very funny XD
> 
> 
> This is to show the path quality of copper on the PCB, size and other characteristics.
> ...


----------



## Armaegis

Kinda sounds like somebody wants to figure out the schematic...


----------



## justin w.

that's going to be difficult because it's a 4-layer PCB.


----------



## Armaegis

But they don't know that


----------



## estreeter

relax. justin - I cant think of anyone on HeadFi who is bright enough to copy any of your designs. 
   
  (Now we play the waiting game)


----------



## frenchbat

To do any real reverse-engineering wouldn't you need to have the PCB in hands ?


----------



## Armaegis

Well there was that rather unpleasant business a couple years back with designs getting copied...


----------



## frenchbat

Yeah it wasn't pretty, but I don't think everything was reverse engineered with only pictures. Both manufacturers were german, and I'm pretty sure the copycat bought an amp from Meier Audio to make its copy. I may be wrong though, as Jan Meier has been publishing some designs for years in the DIY community.


----------



## estreeter

And the M-Stage debacle .....


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> And the M-Stage debacle .....


 


  Do you mean it's similarity to the Lehman?


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





hellenback said:


> Do you mean it's similarity to the Lehman?


 

 Yep, but I've read several reports since that say a lot of it was exaggerated and the BCL is a much more refined amp than the M-Stage. I havent read of any attempts by Lehmann to pursue the alleged similarities, and I dont know how successful that would be anyway given that a multinational like Apple seems powerless to prevent the blatant copying of their Nano throughout SE Asia.


----------



## Currawong

Well, ALL of NEC in China was a clone -- that's right, the entire company including factories and whatnot.

Back on topic, the markings inside the Slim case remind me of how Apple's notebook cases are milled from aluminium.


----------



## qusp

thats because it is the way apples casings are milled from aluminum 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  way to taunt those copycats Justin hehe, indeed would be difficult, many of the vias appear to be hidden in the pads too


----------



## Freeze

I can give nothing but complete and utter high praise as the pico slim for an IEM amp. Incredible control over the volume level, believe me you can get it just right how you like it. Bass control is much more linear. The battery life is awesome. The portability is awesome. If you are someone that likes to use IEM's I can safely say in the ultraportable category these rate within the top 3. Justin backs up his warranties always even if you sell the amp, i consider that standing behind your product. Slim is a great choice expect 2-4 weeks for delivery if you do order one


----------



## Vansen

Quote: 





freeze said:


> I can give nothing but complete and utter high praise as the pico slim for an IEM amp. Incredible control over the volume level, believe me you can get it just right how you like it. Bass control is much more linear. The battery life is awesome. The portability is awesome. If you are someone that likes to use IEM's I can safely say in the ultraportable category these rate within the top 3. Justin backs up his warranties always even if you sell the amp, i consider that standing behind your product. Slim is a great choice expect 2-4 weeks for delivery if you do order one


 


  I ordered mine on May 21 and have still yet to receive it two months later. I ordered a purple one though, which I understand has a longer wait time.


----------



## Freeze

Yea I don't think he even starts making a purple one till there is an order.
   
  Justin really misses out on a lot of revenue from taking too long. But what i appreciate about Justin is he doesn't cut corners to speed up the amp making process so he can get more orders filled and make more money. He does things the right way no matter how long it takes and the quality of his work shows that. There aren't a lot of businessmen left in the world like that. I wish I would of got one of the limited lifetime warranty ones but I didn't have the money to get it when he emailed me 5 months after i signed up for the pre sale.
   
  I'm gonna hate to see my pico slim go but the p-51 mustang is calling my name now.


----------



## justin w.

Quote: 





freeze said:


> Yea I don't think he even starts making a purple one till there is an order.
> 
> Justin really misses out on a lot of revenue from taking too long. But what i appreciate about Justin is he doesn't cut corners to speed up the amp making process so he can get more orders filled and make more money. He does things the right way no matter how long it takes and the quality of his work shows that. There aren't a lot of businessmen left in the world like that. I wish I would of got one of the limited lifetime warranty ones but I didn't have the money to get it when he emailed me 5 months after i signed up for the pre sale.
> 
> I'm gonna hate to see my pico slim go but the p-51 mustang is calling my name now.


 
   
  Not true, the purple/orange got screwed up because the enclosure finishing company made the last batch entirely black/silver even though I had asked for some in purple and orange.  Once they are made, i can't change the color without compromising the quality of the enclosure.  So I had to wait until the machine shop made more enclosures (8 weeks) plus sending them to the finishing company (8 weeks and counting).  These shops rely heavily on government contracts (everything else is done in China) and there's tons of paperwork and date requirements so my stuff gets done "whenever".  Hopefully, will have them within a week.
   
  I wouldn't say that I take too long, I would say that I simply let people know what I'm working on before it's finished .  Also, on average, I would guess I have a large chunk more in parts cost per unit than many manufacturers, especially those manufacturing overseas, and that limits how much I can buy at one time so demand has exceeded supply at times.


----------



## Foress

Justin, YGPM


----------



## CEE TEE

The Pico Slim is just amazing.
   
  I went on a rampage and listened to a *LOT* of portable/transportable amps.
   
  (Looking for clean/transparent amp.  If you need a particular "sound" from your amp, you might need to try a bunch of amps.)
   
  I love my mini^3 but it would be better if I had the new "Lithium battery mod" for longer battery life or maybe the long runtime version.  _But_ it is heavy/little big for pocket use...
   
The Pico Slim is a *tiny* piece of "man-jewelry":

 Size- there isn't really anything to prepare you for how it is in person...really pocketable.
 Battery Life
 Channel balance at low levels
 Nothing boosted/scooped (to me)
 Beautiful craftsmanship
 Nice to have input on other end of amp from the output.
   
  I take 2+ hour walks and can actually put it in the pocket easily.  With one small band.
   
  Gonna put some sort of screen protector on it without case and affix it to my iPhone case to try it out.
   
  I'll keep my LOD with my iems.  I only need the LOD when I need the iems, right?
   
  Only *con* is that the nice, leather case doesn't grip the amp that much and it can slide around.
   
  (If I decide to use the Slim case, I'll want to modify it to hold the Slim in place.)
   
*I think it is worth waiting for if you wish to have the smallest, neutral amp for iems.*
   
  Great design and amp, Justin!!!


----------



## CEE TEE

*PICS o' Pico:*
   




   
  (Command Strips are like Tesa Powerstrips.  Will attempt to affix Pico Slim without case after protecting.)
   
Comparative Stack is:

 Pico Slim (Blk, borrowed.  Mine is Silver.)
 Sony X
 NuForce Icon Mobile
 iBasso D12
 iPhone 3gs
 iPad (Gen 1)


----------



## Foress

very, very nice.


----------



## cooperpwc

Good impressions, CEE TEE!


----------



## JackRabbitSlims

Ordered mine just over a week ago and have reading over this thread ever since........anticipation is building.
   
  I need to be patient though. I'm in NZ and I've heard / read 2-4 weeks turnaround time on the Slim - 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I also have some UE Reference Monitors on order, so I'm very much looking forward to getting all this kit hooked up and pumping out the tunes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Will post up some impressions when I have it all here and working.
   
  Cheers.


----------



## GreatDane

Thanks for the contribution CEE TEE. I use my "man jewelry" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  every night. Awesome little amp!


----------



## mfluder

jackrabbitslims said:


> Ordered mine just over a week ago and have reading over this thread ever since........anticipation is building.
> 
> I need to be patient though. I'm in NZ and I've heard / read 2-4 weeks turnaround time on the Slim -



Hmmm, might be a little longer than 2-4 weeks. Ordered my Pico Slim (silver) July 16 - hopefully I'll get it soon?


----------



## justin w.

sorry for the delay - i had been out of non-black enclosures.  they were supposed to ship a long time ago, i have been waiting along with everyone else.  hopefully, they are shipping to me this week like i was told a few days ago.


----------



## JackRabbitSlims

Thanks for the update Justin.
   
  Will you email a shipment confirmation once it leaves the US??


----------



## CEE TEE

*^JackRabbitSlims:*  Slim with UE RM is probably going to be pretty bright compared to your Westone 4.  
   
  I am wondering if the Slim might have a bit less bass-quantity than my mini^3 (I lent my mini^3 out and will have to compare further).
   
  So, the emphasis with the *Slim>UE RM* combo is going to be *mid-mids/upper-mids*. 
   
  I am now pairing with my <slightly> warmer Sony X and experimenting...
   
  EDIT:  I only listened to the W4 once for a short while but think it will be a very different sound than the UE RM.  I'd like to hear the W4 with the Pico Slim again to see how they pair.


----------



## JackRabbitSlims

Thanks for your comments CE TEE.
   
  I'll post up when I have all my "new toys" here and give you some impressions.
   
  I have a few a IEM / Amp combo's to work through.......not all listed in my Sig Line 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  The 4's are very impressive to my ears....amped and unamped. My Floor standers haven't had much use in the past weeks


----------



## JackRabbitSlims

^^ sorry, should read CEE TEE -


----------



## CEE TEE

Sounds great...new impressions keep the love going on this VERY portable amp.
   
   
I am finding that the treble is very clear and really extends.
   
  Had fun today pairing with the Sony X and playing a little with the EQ.  _Got stuck listening to lots of Pink Floyd!_
   
  Man- the beginning to "Time" is SO clear with this amp.  Kind of a "scalpel" of a combo (the UE RM + Slim).
   
   
I have learned that I like the clarity that comes from detailed ear/headphones because I personally strain from the reflections with speakers in my place.
   
  This satisfies all need for clarity and detail.  Now I can look to more "relaxed" set-ups as I can now "relax" my "detail quest".
   
  BTW, I found the CLAS/RxII combo incredibly clear and detailed/extended too...just a LOT bigger (and two units + more $).
   
   
  About the "regular" Pico (which is also very well crafted and small)- I found it noticeably warmer.  
   
  Might be nice to have one of those later too..._that's getting really greedy though!_
   
   
There has been a lot of discussion about the volume pot but I think it is a great thing the more I read Justin's explanations of it.
   
  Would be great to have a summary of his comments on the volume control in one place.  Sounds like a unique implementation.
   
  Only if I turn it <really quickly> do I hear some sort of noise, which is nice.  *It is the opposite of "not enough steps" with iems- such as the iPhone volume control.  *
   
  The knob might wiggle a <tiny bit> in the case, but I actually love the design and machining.  Easy to find and operate.
   
*So, Slim works well for me!*


----------



## MxChino

Has anyone paired this with an iPhone 4s and Westone 4r? Big improvements?


----------



## AVU

Quote: 





justin w. said:


> that's going to be difficult because it's a 4-layer PCB.


 

  
  Hey Justin,
   
  How about you provide complete instructions on parts and fabrication so we can get a whole bunch of knock-offs coming?


----------



## Staal

Quote: 





cee tee said:


> *PICS o' Pico:*


 

 What cable is that?


----------



## Coasterjeffry

Is that a QUSP cable?
   
  I just got my Pico Slim yesterday.   So far I'm LOVING IT.  (I was using a minibox E+ from when ER4S was my primary IEM)
   
  My rig is now Ipod Classic - Clas - Pico Slim - 1964-Q    Still waiting on some cabling from QUSP to complete it.   Then my wallet will get a break for a while....hopefully....


----------



## nc8000

The lod is almost certainly by qusp, I don't know anybody else who epoxy molds the connector like that


----------



## Staal

Well spotted. It's the IEM cable I'm curious about though.


----------



## M3NTAL

stock ue


----------



## Staal

Yep, I got that clarified as well. Stock UE. 

 Quite pretty for a stock cable. Anyone know if either of the 2 versions will fit JH/UM?


----------



## PANGES

Quote: 





staal said:


> Yep, I got that clarified as well. Stock UE.
> 
> Quite pretty for a stock cable. Anyone know if either of the 2 versions will fit JH/UM?


 
   
  Super late response, but if JH/UM use the same/similar cable to the Westone cables, then the Pre-9/2010 UE cable should work.


----------



## justin w.

Just got a shipment of black Pico Slim enclosures in this week, did the laser engraving tonight.  First Pico Slims laser engraved in-house.


----------



## cooperpwc

Pics?


----------



## justin w.

a few months ago, someone posted a WTB ad for Pico Slim #420: http://www.head-fi.org/t/591188/pico-slim-serial-number-420
   
  it didnt exist, either because the laser engraver skipped the # or it was on a damaged enclosure.  Now that I have my own laser engraver, I went back and filled in the missing #420.  Concidentally, it was just a few hours before 4/20.  
  
  So here's a video of its birth:


----------



## AnakChan

Now that is cool .


----------



## kenman345

Quote: 





justin w. said:


> a few months ago, someone posted a WTB ad for Pico Slim #420: http://www.head-fi.org/t/591188/pico-slim-serial-number-420
> 
> it didnt exist, either because the laser engraver skipped the # or it was on a damaged enclosure.  Now that I have my own laser engraver, I went back and filled in the missing #420.  Concidentally, it was just a few hours before 4/20.
> 
> So here's a video of its birth:


 
   
  Lol, 420 huh? So is that user actually gonna get that one? Does this also mean we can have custom engravings on our Slims? or other present/future products?
   
  Quote: 





anakchan said:


> Now that is cool .


 
   
  Yes, I think i wants a laser engraver. So bad now.
   
   
  So my real response to this thread was to ask everyone what I should know as I expect to receive a Pico Slim in the mail soon, making a trade for a lower S/N Pico Slim for some headphones and cash. Was in the market for an amp and was looking at this one, the Arrow, or the TTVJ Slim. What should I know about maintenance and other things. My main concerns are will 3M command Strips or the other forms of attaching an amp to an iPod classic mess up the casing or the engravings? Does the Slim actually benefit for the different quality cables used in LODs? I use FiiO LOD's and am considering a Chris_Himself LOD soon. 
   
  From reading over the last 20 pages of this thread, I think i've got something nice in the mail for me, as I am also awaiting my Custom IEM's from Aurisonics to pair with this.


----------



## justin w.

Quote: 





kenman345 said:


> Lol, 420 huh? So is that user actually gonna get that one? Does this also mean we can have custom engravings on our Slims? or other present/future products?
> 
> 
> Yes, I think i wants a laser engraver. So bad now.
> ...


 
  you should just attach the 3M strips to the leather case that comes with the Pico Slim


----------



## kenman345

Quote: 





justin w. said:


> you should just attach the 3M strips to the leather case that comes with the Pico Slim


 
   
  Thanks for the help. Is that really the best way? I'm not one to really sell things, as much as i don't want to remove the Serial Number or anything. Just looking for a small portable setup, nothing ridiculously large. So it's not advisable to use the 3M strips with back of iPod to Pico Slim?


----------



## PANGES

Quote: 





kenman345 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  That's probably the best way if you want to keep the serial number intact. The number is printed on the amp, so if you just put the tape on the leather case, you don't need to worry about the number being removed.


----------



## justin w.

Quote: 





panges said:


> That's probably the best way if you want to keep the serial number intact. The number is printed on the amp, so if you just put the tape on the leather case, you don't need to worry about the number being removed.


 
   
  I did just post a video of it being laser engraved 
   
  The only problem with sticking strips on the amp is you may never be able to remove them without causing some daamge.  You're probably taking a $50-100 resale value hit by putting them on.


----------



## CEE TEE

I have used 3M command strips twice.
   
*Once*, I didn't affix that firmly and they got loose by themselves...
   
*Second time*, I had to use an Exact-O blade to sever the foam so I could share my Pico Slim at a meet.  
   
   
  No problems to the Pico Slim or to the phone detaching the foam, but I was lucky and careful.
   
  While the Pico Slim was attached to my phone, however, I did incur a couple small dents from running around with the combo.
   
  I had some clear vinyl protecting from scratches so that was not an issue...
   
   
  But, my experiment taught me to use the leather case with one Scunci to keep the slim in the case + 1-2 Scuncis to keep with your DAP.
   
_Hope this helps somebody._


----------



## kenman345

What scunci product did you use? And the command strip that are meant to come off a wall by tugging on the bottom would cause this damage you speak of? I'm not so worried about resale value as being able to use it the way i want/need. If I can't make use of the Pico Slim in this way I may just sell it off and get something a bit more suited. Thanks for the help.
  Quote: 





cee tee said:


> I have used 3M command strips twice.
> 
> *Once*, I didn't affix that firmly and they got loose by themselves...
> 
> ...


----------



## Personnel Jezuz

Insane video! So rapid!
  Go on I'll take the 420 if no one wants it 
   
  Any idea on the current wait on the purple slim?


----------



## CEE TEE

Quote:


kenman345 said:


> What scunci product did you use? And the command strip that are meant to come off a wall by tugging on the bottom would cause this damage you speak of? I'm not so worried about resale value as being able to use it the way i want/need. If I can't make use of the Pico Slim in this way I may just sell it off and get something a bit more suited. Thanks for the help.


 
   
*Scunci:*  No Slip Grip  (Mkubota1 gave me a few, they are not wide and have some rubber inside so they grip)
   
  The Scunci is really perfect for keeping the Slim in the case- use one wrapped around the Slim in it's case length-wise.

*Command Strips:* I didn't have any damage or any problems with the engraving after using Command Strips twice.  The second time I had it affixed so well that I needed to <carefully> use an X-acto blade to cut and weaken the strips because I cut the tabs off and couldn't just pull the strips out.  If you leave tabs that you can grab, I think you won't have any worries getting the strips off.
   
  My problem with keeping the amp on my iPhone is that I was streaming a lot of news at work and not using the amp for a period and also needed to take it off so that it could be listened to at the Bay Area Meet last Feb.  *(And, I got a tiny dent from probably bumping into something while it was in my pocket.)*
   
  I'll be keeping it in it's case from now on...


----------



## kenman345

Thanks for the help....man, I did not realize how small this thing really is. I think I'm in love. Took a quick listen when it arrived and I  can't wait for my CIEM's now.
   
  I'll give it a thorough listen after charging it tonight and getting some free time between classes tomorrow. Now to get an LOD made to pair with this baby perfectly. 
  Quote: 





cee tee said:


> Quote:
> 
> *Scunci:*  No Slip Grip  (Mkubota1 gave me a few, they are not wide and have some rubber inside so they grip)
> 
> ...


----------



## CEE TEE

Still love my qusp LOD.  He'll make them to your specs...enjoy!
   
  This was when I used 3gs (now I use one Scunci to hold the Slim in the case):


----------



## kenman345

Thanks for the suggestion. I plan on getting Chris_Himself to make me one. I am gonna get some cables for my IEMs while I'm at it
  Quote: 





cee tee said:


> Still love my qusp LOD.  He'll make them to your specs...enjoy!
> 
> This was when I used 3gs:


----------



## brrgrr

kenman345 said:


> What scunci product did you use? And the command strip that are meant to come off a wall by tugging on the bottom would cause this damage you speak of? I'm not so worried about resale value as being able to use it the way i want/need. If I can't make use of the Pico Slim in this way I may just sell it off and get something a bit more suited. Thanks for the help.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...




What I've tried is experiment with a 3 pack of htc screen protectors. I ended up cutting one screen protector to match the outside facing surface of the slim, and wrap it wih the screen protector film due to its flexibility, and attach a command strip to the film which held it all together. It seemed nice for some minimum bulk protection but it wasn't quite as safe as the leather case so I decided not to roll with it. Best of luck .


----------



## kenman345

I guess I'll have to experiment. I am definitely quiet happy with the performance of this thing though. Now just to get the setup with my iPod right. 
  Quote: 





brrgrr said:


> What I've tried is experiment with a 3 pack of htc screen protectors. I ended up cutting one screen protector to match the outside facing surface of the slim, and wrap it wih the screen protector film due to its flexibility, and attach a command strip to the film which held it all together. It seemed nice for some minimum bulk protection but it wasn't quite as safe as the leather case so I decided not to roll with it. Best of luck
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## mfluder

Nothing more to add than what hasn't already been said - but I've been enjoying my Pico Slim for about 9 months and have loved every second of it - a perfect match for the JH-13s.


----------



## shigzeo

I finally got to hear the Pico Slim at a local headfi meet over the weekend. Wasn't expecting to have my jaw dropped so far. Basically no noise, extremely clear, high resolution throughout the spectrum, and so well made. Grade A goodness. Smacks my previous love, the iBasso T3D around the room.


----------



## cat6man

pulled the trigger this weekend and purchased a purple pico-slim (say that fast 6 times) for use with my ER4/iphone4S travel kit.
  in the past, i used the ER4 only for airplane flights (bag with cd player, cosmic headroom amp, C battery power supply), which i later upgraded to a smaller
  travel rig (smaller bag with ipod + rsa predator).
   
  last month, i traveled to france and spent time walking around (and taking buses and trains) with the ER4 plugged directly into my iphone for the first time......not at all unpleasant.
  since the predator/iphone combo won't fit in my shirt product (the way i was using the iphone alone), i'm looking to put the pico slim/iphone combo in my shirt pocket.
   
  at the same time, i'm sending my ER4 back to etymotic to have the old cable (almost 20 years old) replaced with a more modern, pliable and hopefully much less microphonic cable.


----------



## kiwirugby

Quote: 





mfluder said:


> Nothing more to add than what hasn't already been said - but I've been enjoying my Pico Slim for about 9 months and have loved every second of it - a perfect match for the JH-13s.


 
  x2 on this one.  Great combination with the JH13s.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





kiwirugby said:


> x2 on this one.  Great combination with the JH13s.


 
   
  I actually prefer my Westone ES5 with the Slim.  That's an even better pairing to my ears.


----------



## aamefford

Quote: 





shigzeo said:


> I finally got to hear the Pico Slim at a local headfi meet over the weekend. Wasn't expecting to have my jaw dropped so far. Basically no noise, extremely clear, high resolution throughout the spectrum, and so well made. Grade A goodness. Smacks my previous love, the iBasso T3D around the room.


 
   
  Agreed.  I went through amps like jelly beans for a while.  I am no longer looking for another portable amp.  The Pico Slim suits my needs perfectly.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





shigzeo said:


> I finally got to hear the Pico Slim at a local headfi meet over the weekend. Wasn't expecting to have my jaw dropped so far. Basically no noise, extremely clear, high resolution throughout the spectrum, and so well made. Grade A goodness. Smacks my previous love, the iBasso T3D around the room.


 
   
  Fair enough - at 3-4 times the cost, it would NEED to smack the T3D around  the room.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I dont have a problem with Justin's pricing - I accept that his amps are _premium products_ handmade in the US, but the price difference is still significant. Looking forward to the Pico Power, fwiw.


----------



## cat6man

hi,
   
  is there any significant break-in time for the pico slim?  if so, how long and how does the sound change?
   
  thanks
   
  marty


----------



## gracky

Received my Pico Slim yesterday morning, and it's about a day since its arrival. My gear is Imod 5th gen -> ALO v2 imod cable -> Pico Slim (formerly Xin reference) -> Ortofon E-Q7.
  In terms of practical usage, PS is superb for portable use with Ipod and IEMs. Bound to the Imod with some tight rubber bands, the volume and weight added by the PS is almost negligible maybe except the space for the Imod cable. Its pot is marvelous, you can turn the volume down arbitrarily low without any gang error. For portability, I just hope an Imod cable with smaller profile. I think at least it should be possible to make one with side-attached wires. 
  In terms of sound, I admit that PS is a big step up from Xin reference, abandoning my expectations. Their signatures are quite different. After listening to PS, I think Xin had some bright/forward characters in the upper mid/treble, it gave music somewhat more vigor and contrast. PS has a very flat and analytic signature. With its great resolution, PS reveals far more details of music. You can hear very small changes in vocal nuance or very complex texture of orchestration of the back band or the accompanying orchestra. But presentation of such details is always very objective and, let me say, cold. Frequency range is very wide, the lowest notes are easier to hear while the mass of the bass is reduced and it sounds more pin point. Sound color is cold, reminds me colors like blue, navy, gray. In a sense, with PS, I can look down the whole of the music a step back. I don't mean that it's harder to understand music with PS, because it really presents every bit of the deepest detail of the music and makes me be attached to the smallest details even though the music is further away 'physically'. I mean, the presentation is always cool, calm and reserved: so called a 'lean sound'. The sound of PS reminds me paintings of Egon Schiele characterized by very thin and severe lines and coloring (Kuroda Kyouich, a music critic who passed away some years ago had used same analogy describing Wadia 7/9). Well, listening to PS makes me sad and sad yet I cannot stop listening to music with it.
  PS is a great creation achieving both extreme portability and hi-fi sound in a tiny body. Very impressed.


----------



## sensui123

Hi;
       Was just wondering if anyone specifically tried this amp with the following IEMS?
   
  Shure EC5, SE530, SE535 and Westone 4R.  I am liking the impressions I'm reading for this but I see very few feedback (barely any, I think I read a couple SE530 feedbacks) with most of the IEMs I'm running.  I'm planning to run this along with a Sony DAP (that I'll have my family members mule over for me when they come back next time from Japan).  Thanks in advance for feedback.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





sensui123 said:


> Hi;
> Was just wondering if anyone specifically tried this amp with the following IEMS?
> 
> Shure EC5, SE530, SE535 and Westone 4R.  I am liking the impressions I'm reading for this but I see very few feedback (barely any, I think I read a couple SE530 feedbacks) with most of the IEMs I'm running.  I'm planning to run this along with a Sony DAP (that I'll have my family members mule over for me when they come back next time from Japan).  Thanks in advance for feedback.


 
   
  I'm using it with the W4R and it's great.  I like it with all of my Westone IEM including W1, W2, W3, UM3X, ES3X and ES5.  Don't have the Shure anymore.


----------



## sensui123

Cool thanks for the feedback, seeing that it's produced great results with the SE530 from some of the previous feedbacks, I'm assuming it'll play nice with the SE535 as well.  Seems like a solid little amp.


----------



## DMinor

Well I am trying to revive this thread with a question:
   
  I am listening to classical music all the time and wondering if the Pico Slim is suitable for diymod iPod 5g and EX1000. Feedback is appreciated.


----------



## kiwirugby

Quote: 





dminor said:


> Well I am trying to revive this thread with a question:
> 
> I am listening to classical music all the time and wondering if the Pico Slim is suitable for diymod iPod 5g and EX1000. Feedback is appreciated.


 
  I use an iMod 5-5 > Pico Slim > JH13 (Whiplash v2 re-cable) for mostly classical (some jazz) and I love the sound.  Not sure what others may say about pairing the Slim with EX1000, but Pico works wonders with IEMs.


----------



## Lionfruit

a


----------



## musicheaven

Got my Pico slim red last Saturday, Justin outdone himself again, the enclosure is a beauty, work of art. I am in love again! 

I am using it with iMod 5.0/5.5 g and se535 perfect match!


----------



## lookingforIEMs

Hey guys when I demoed the pico slim at stereo electronics the other day I noticed very very distorted and soft sound coming out of my iPhone 4. Any explanations?


----------



## cooperpwc

^ That's not right. The Pico Slim is _uber _clean.


----------



## lookingforIEMs

cooperpwc said:


> ^ That's not right. The Pico Slim is _uber_ clean.



Erm sorry I think I should have said I use iems. Would that be the reason why they sounded horrible?


----------



## musicheaven

I have sensitive iems and the Pico Slim never gave me any issues whatelsoever, very clean amp, the best in it's category. Maybe you have issues with the cell electromagnetic interferance. What happens when you use the amp with a regular player? Have you tried it with different iems?


----------



## justin w.

lookingforiems said:


> Hey guys when I demoed the pico slim at stereo electronics the other day I noticed very very distorted and soft sound coming out of my iPhone 4. Any explanations?


 
  
 Did you mention this to the store? sounds like the ground on the mini jack isnt making contact


----------



## lookingforIEMs

No guys I haven't tried other amps yet cos I'm confuse where to go to purchase portable amps in my country. And no I didn't mention it to the store haha cos I was too afraid it was actually my fault and I would look like a noob. But I was actually pretty sure I used it the right way. I plugged a 3.5 to 3.5 into my phone and the amp. Then I plugged my Iem into the Amp. I fiddled with the volume control thing on the amp and also I increased the volume on my phone and only when at max volume from both phone and the amp did I hear anything coming out of my iems. Not too sure if it was cellular problems but when I was testing the amp, my iPhone as usual disconnected completely from the mobile network as always( one too many drops and one too many overheats I guess )


----------



## musicheaven

lookingforiems said:


> No guys I haven't tried other amps yet cos I'm confuse where to go to purchase portable amps in my country. And no I didn't mention it to the store haha cos I was too afraid it was actually my fault and I would look like a noob. But I was actually pretty sure I used it the right way. I plugged a 3.5 to 3.5 into my phone and the amp. Then I plugged my Iem into the Amp. I fiddled with the volume control thing on the amp and also I increased the volume on my phone and only when at max volume from both phone and the amp did I hear anything coming out of my iems. Not too sure if it was cellular problems but when I was testing the amp, my iPhone as usual disconnected completely from the mobile network as always( one too many drops and one too many overheats I guess )




As long as you connect the 3.5 side to the input plug and the other end to your headphone out, finally the iems to the phones input, you should have been fine. And don't worry about what the salesperson think about your electronics skills, he's not the one paying for the amp. With the iPhone 4 or 4S you can use a lod which is a better way to connect your phone to the amp. A lod is a 30pin connector to a single ended connector. You plug the 30 pin connector to your phone and the other end to the input of the amp. The advantage of the lod is that you get a strong fixed level signal which is cleaner that the headphone out.

Using a phone with the amp is definitively a choice. I don't use phones with amps, I use dap like the iPod Classic or other manufactures. The big advantage is that it is optimized for playing music instead of being a jack of all trades. 

Justin who replied to your post is the builder behind the Pico amps. He's the creator and is always available to help you make a right decision if the Pico amps is what you want and need.


----------



## lookingforIEMs

musicheaven said:


> As long as you connect the 3.5 side to the input plug and the other end to your headphone out, finally the iems to the phones input, you should have been fine. And don't worry about what the salesperson think about your electronics skills, he's not the one paying for the amp. With the iPhone 4 or 4S you can use a lod which is a better way to connect your phone to the amp. A lod is a 30pin connector to a single ended connector. You plug the 30 pin connector to your phone and the other end to the input of the amp. The advantage of the lod is that you get a strong fixed level signal which is cleaner that the headphone out.
> 
> Using a phone with the amp is definitively a choice. I don't use phones with amps, I use dap like the iPod Classic or other manufactures. The big advantage is that it is optimized for playing music instead of being a jack of all trades.
> 
> Justin who replied to your post is the builder behind the Pico amps. He's the creator and is always available to help you make a right decision if the Pico amps is what you want and need.



Wow I didn't know that I was speaking to the creator haha. I guess I'll give another try at his amps next time I go to that store. Though I don't think I will be getting them anytime soon cos I'm saving up for another iem haha


----------



## cooperpwc

lookingforiems said:


> Erm sorry I think I should have said I use iems. Would that be the reason why they sounded horrible?


 
  
  
 I wasn't doubting your experience. I was saying that there was something gone wrong in the equipment chain since the Pico Slim's sound is anything but as you described. Justin's theory makes sense and he would know.
  
 The Pico Slim is specifically designed for IEMs.


----------



## youkeum

Hello Dose anyone use jhaudio ciem with pico slim? If it is good, I'll buy jh10x. or could you recommend best matching?


----------



## JackRabbitSlims

iPod 160gb,Custom LOD, Pico Slim, UERM's - pretty stoked !!
  
 Love the Pico and was super impressed when I had a small problem with it, sent it back to Justin (I'm in NZ)...he repaired it and sent back with no charge.


----------



## esuhgb

Hi,
 I've got a couple of problems with my pico slim regarding the input and output jacks, at certain positions the sound cuts out. This happens with both input and output. I've tried getting in touch with Justin but had no luck, sent him 3 emails in a month with no reply. So any one know a solution to the problem am having or another way of getting in touch with Justin? Does he respond to head-fi pm's?
 Thanks.


----------



## JackRabbitSlims

You're getting no reply at all from sending emails to Justin Via the "Contact" link on the HeadAmp site??


----------



## justin w.

I dont know what emails these are, try again


----------



## esuhgb

justin w. said:


> I dont know what emails these are, try again


 
 Will do,  been sending them to justin@headamp.com is that the correct one?
 I've sent you an email via my Hotmail account.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I know your question is old, but the Slim works quite well with my JH13 and JH16.  My UE11Pro are a little too bassy with the Slim, but my Westone ES3X and ES5 also pair well with the Slim.


----------



## youkeum

headphoneaddict said:


> I know your question is old, but the Slim works quite well with my JH13 and JH16.  My UE11Pro are a little too bassy with the Slim, but my Westone ES3X and ES5 also pair well with the Slim.


 
  
 thanks.


----------



## esuhgb

justin w. said:


> I dont know what emails these are, try again


 
 Hi, I sent you an email last Saturday, guess you did not get it, so I have sent you another one today. If you don't get this one, any chance we can discuss this via Pm. Thanks.


----------



## youkeum

esuhgb said:


> Hi, I sent you an email last Saturday, guess you did not get it, so I have sent you another one today. If you don't get this one, any chance we can discuss this via Pm. Thanks.



Did you contact with Justin? Did he answer you?


----------



## esuhgb

youkeum said:


> Did you contact with Justin? Did he answer you?


 
 Yes I did eventually, and he did answer me too. Helped me solve my problem without having to send my amp to him.


----------



## youkeum

That's good- I don't know why he don't answer my PM. Today is about 7weeks when I ordered pico slim.


----------



## esuhgb

Try emailing him on justin@headamp.com if you need to get in contact.


----------



## musicheaven

youkeum said:


> That's good- I don't know why he don't answer my PM. Today is about 7weeks when I ordered pico slim.




Don't worry about it, Justin is a one man shop and he builds every single one by hand himself so he'll be busy but you'll get your pico slim soon. With Justin you got to be patient, don't rush him. Send him an email to ask him once if he has any photos of the enclosure he is using and he'll send you one. What color did you choose?


----------



## youkeum

musicheaven said:


> Don't worry about it, Justin is a one man shop and he builds every single one by hand himself so he'll be busy but you'll get your pico slim soon. With Justin you got to be patient, don't rush him. Send him an email to ask him once if he has any photos of the enclosure he is using and he'll send you one. What color did you choose?


 
  
 I know he too busy and I don't want to bother him. I just want to know the progress, I think it's not a hard thing to send simple message. 
 Am I rush him?  Anyway, I choose a red one.


----------



## musicheaven

youkeum said:


> I know he too busy and I don't want to bother him. I just want to know the progress, I think it's not a hard thing to send simple message.
> Am I rush him?  Anyway, I choose a red one.




That's why I also have one and it took a long time but I don't regret it one bit. His usual stock is the black, this one would have been ready sooner because he tends to stock them.

In red it looks gorgeous.


----------



## youkeum

Thanks for your comment musicheaven. It really help me.


----------



## musicheaven

youkeum said:


> Thanks for your comment musicheaven. It really help me.


 
 You are welcome and if you feel that the wait is hard to take, drop him a line on regular basis to just ask where he is with the progress, tell him you are truly looking forward to use his wonderful amp in your stack very soon.


----------



## frankrondaniel

I ordered a Pico Slim around 3 weeks ago and haven't heard anything.  Tried a few emails to check on status but no reply.  From these recent posts I get the impression that I should just be patient and I'll eventually get my amp?


----------



## musicheaven

frankrondaniel said:


> I ordered a Pico Slim around 3 weeks ago and haven't heard anything.  Tried a few emails to check on status but no reply.  From these recent posts I get the impression that I should just be patient and I'll eventually get my amp?




Yeah, Justin is a one man show and he picks his components by hand but rest assure once you'll have it, you'll immediately understand why. I am a bit of a curious fella and opened up the Pico, the only thing I can say is it's as nice inside as it is outside.


----------



## frankrondaniel

musicheaven said:


> Yeah, Justin is a one man show and he picks his components by hand but rest assure once you'll have it, you'll immediately understand why. I am a bit of a curious fella and opened up the Pico, the only thing I can say is it's as nice inside as it is outside.


 
  
 That's good to hear - thanks for your feedback!  I look forward to getting it but I'll be patient


----------



## frankrondaniel

Still no update on my order - it's been over a month now.  Not a good business practice in my opinion.  Starting to lose confidence on ever getting something for my money.


----------



## justin w.

hi,
  
 sorry i have been slow on getting the latest orders out. i broke my collarbone the end of october, had surgery 2 weeks ago, so have been trying to work with 1 arm. i'm going to see if i can still get all the Pico orders built this weekend


----------



## frankrondaniel

Sorry to hear about your injury!  Hope you're recovering well.  Please don't rush then.  I understand and will be patient.


----------



## youkeum

Sorry Justin, but could you read my PM and reply it?


----------



## youkeum

It's very hard thing that waiting about 10weeks without ANY message. My order state is stop since I ordered, What's wrong? Is it usual?


----------



## cooperpwc

Justin, Ouch! That is not fun. I hope that you are feeling better soon.


----------



## youkeum

finally it's on my hand now- It's too long time to wait but that's OK. It's awsome-! nice color and super clean sound. Thanks.


----------



## frankrondaniel

Forgot to mention that I also recently received my Pico Slim.  Haven't had much of a chance to use it but my initial impression is that it's a very impressive little device. The soundstage, however, seemed a little small in my initial listening.


----------



## musicheaven

youkeum said:


> finally it's on my hand now- It's too long time to wait but that's OK. It's awsome-! nice color and super clean sound. Thanks.


 
  
 Congrats! BTW we have the same rig, DX50 and Pico Slim red, a beautiful combination!


----------



## musicheaven

frankrondaniel said:


> Forgot to mention that I also recently received my Pico Slim.  Haven't had much of a chance to use it but my initial impression is that it's a very impressive little device. The soundstage, however, seemed a little small in my initial listening.


 
 Quite surprised, you may want to give it a burn-in. I use mine all the time with my HD600 headphones + DX50 and I just love the combination.


----------



## frankrondaniel

musicheaven said:


> Quite surprised, you may want to give it a burn-in. I use mine all the time with my HD600 headphones + DX50 and I just love the combination.


 
  
 I've been letting it play all day paired with my DX50 - it does seem to have opened up.


----------



## musicheaven

frankrondaniel said:


> I've been letting it play all day paired with my DX50 - it does seem to have opened up.




I don't think I noticed a major difference after few days, I have had mine for over 6 months and truly enjoyed it now. I am not suggesting it will take you that long but you gotta give it some time. The headphones/iems/ciems will also make a difference.


----------



## youkeum

musicheaven said:


> Congrats! BTW we have the same rig, DX50 and Pico Slim red, a beautiful combination!


 
 hello- brother.  I think it's nice combination- I use both headphone and IEM. The pico slim have a great sound with all my receiver. BTW, do I need to burn-in? What is a major difference after burn-in time?


----------



## musicheaven

youkeum said:


> hello- brother.  I think it's nice combination- I use both headphone and IEM. The pico slim have a great sound with all my receiver. BTW, do I need to burn-in? What is a major difference after burn-in time?


 
 I'd like to think there is some needed but again some other users don't believe in it. If you want to experiment, just notice how the sound appears to you over time.


----------



## cooperpwc

musicheaven said:


> I'd like to think there is some needed but again some other users don't believe in it. If you want to experiment, just notice how the sound appears to you over time.


 
  
 Exactly. Listen and enjoy. You may find that the sound actually opens up as the capacitors burn in. The Pico Slim nonetheless sounds great out of the box.


----------



## Shini44

hey guys how is the Pico Slim with Female vocal? can we say that the Uha-6MKII does better in the mids/ female vocal department? i know the Pico got a nice Treble but i got UM Mentor which got warm nice sig on the female vocal, and really afraid that it will be dryer sounding
  
 since the mentor got forward mids will the laid back mids of the pico affect it? if no then that will be cool also hope the mids won't be dryer on the pico :< 

 , any suggestion? i am between the two atm. 
  


bcwang said:


> The cables are definitely plugged in all the way.  The presentation is wider and closer than the tomahawk.  I wonder if maybe the grain I'm hearing is the pico slim being much more detailed than the tomahawk and revealing flaws in the DAC I'm using.  It's just roughness in vocals which the tomahawk conveys very smoothly.  Maybe the tomahawk is too warm and thick rounding away the detail while the pico slim is very transparent and neutral.  The shure e4 which I hadn't used in a while is hyper detailed in the mids and it became obvious only when I tried this combo.  I'll have to do further listening to figure this out.


 
 so the Pico slim is rough on vocals? i hope he is wrong on this one :<


----------



## musicheaven

shini44 said:


> hey guys how is the Pico Slim with Female vocal? can we say that the Uha-6MKII does better in the mids/ female vocal department? i know the Pico got a nice Treble but i got UM Mentor which got warm nice sig on the female vocal, and really afraid that it will be dryer sounding
> 
> since the mentor got forward mids will the laid back mids of the pico affect it? if no then that will be cool also hope the mids won't be dryer on the pico :<
> 
> ...




Surprised about the comment you highlighted, I used Pico slim to warm up my overly bright SE535, the slim is an amazing amp for it's size. I would not hesitate to recommend it for your application, I wouldn't if you have to power hungrier headphones, it's underpowered. The Pico Power is a better amp for that.

My only gripe with the Slim are the connectors, wish he could have used all metal ones, feels a bit flimsy.


----------



## Shini44

musicheaven said:


> Surprised about the comment you highlighted, I used Pico slim to warm up my overly bright SE535, the slim is an amazing amp for it's size. I would not hesitate to recommend it for your application, I wouldn't if you have to power hungrier headphones, it's underpowered. The Pico Power is a better amp for that.
> 
> My only gripe with the Slim are the connectors, wish he could have used all metal ones, feels a bit flimsy.


 
 i had the SE535 too!! so you enjoyed the mids and the female vocal with the slim and this combo ha? thanks for the info btw  not to mention the nice Treble of the slim


----------



## Bananaheadlin

How are you guys connecting your Pico Slims to your source devices? They look awfully small to be strapped onto the source like other bigger portable amps (ex iPod and ALO RX, JDS C5). Do you guys just hang them there, or still strap them together?


----------



## DannyBai

bananaheadlin said:


> How are you guys connecting your Pico Slims to your source devices? They look awfully small to be strapped onto the source like other bigger portable amps (ex iPod and ALO RX, JDS C5). Do you guys just hang them there, or still strap them together?


 
 I just do this.


----------



## castleofargh

bananaheadlin said:


> How are you guys connecting your Pico Slims to your source devices? They look awfully small to be strapped onto the source like other bigger portable amps (ex iPod and ALO RX, JDS C5). Do you guys just hang them there, or still strap them together?


 

 I use this kind of stuff http://www.tesa.com/consumer/powerstrips/tesa_powerstrips_small,c.html
  
  


  
  
 I tend to use this with all my amps and up till now those never left any visible markings. just don't let them take a lot of heat in the sun or they make a mess. but I wouldn't let a dap and an amp in the sun for hours anyway so it's all good. (pico slim+sony A865)


----------



## Bananaheadlin

Oh nice, I always thought those plastic sticky strips leaves marks! Good to see that they don't. The included leather case seems quite good though.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

bananaheadlin said:


> How are you guys connecting your Pico Slims to your source devices? They look awfully small to be strapped onto the source like other bigger portable amps (ex iPod and ALO RX, JDS C5). Do you guys just hang them there, or still strap them together?


 
  
 A small square of velcro on the amp and iPod


----------



## Bananaheadlin

headphoneaddict said:


> A small square of velcro on the amp and iPod




Velcro on the leather case or just the body no-case?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

bananaheadlin said:


> Velcro on the leather case or just the body no-case?


 
 I put the stiff half of velcro on the leather case, and on the soft half of velcro on the clip for my 6th Gen Nano - this keeps things from sliding too easily on the table or getting scratched, and when I clip the nano to my shirt without an amp the fuzzy half of the velcro isn't irritating to my skin. The LOD plug prevents the amp from sliding out of the case, since the 3.5mm jack has a strong grip on the plug.


----------



## Shini44

pico slim hiss?

  
 i am using mine on the desktop cause i use CIEM and SRH940 32ohms, the DAC is WA7's dac atm, soon magic D2 from mav audio
 i got one annoying problem with the pico slim, when the knob is @ 80% and up i start to hear kind of small bz bz sparkle as if its a mic or there is statics sparkles they stop when i don't move the knob but on 100% there is a hiss :< i think this is making the sound no clean
 the slim should be good with sensitive CIEMs right?  it is because i am using the WA7 as a DAC? or the problem from the amp? i bought OFC HQ RCA cable , but still the same, on the 940 the sparkle was little, but hey can be spotted,  all of that with out music btw
 any suggestion? 
  
 my CIEM is UM Mentor


----------



## cooperpwc

shini44 said:


> pico slim hiss?
> 
> 
> i am using mine on the desktop cause i use CIEM and SRH940 32ohms, the DAC is WA7's dac atm, soon magic D2 from mav audio
> ...


 
  
 Of course it hisses at 100% with IEMs. You might listen at what: 35-40%? You would destroy your IEMs and your ears if you ever listened at the level you are judging at.


----------



## Shini44

cooperpwc said:


> Of course it hisses at 100% with IEMs. You might listen at what: 35-40%? You would destroy your IEMs and your ears if you ever listened at the level you are judging at.


 
 not really on 50-60% the sound feels thin, and laid back or not enough to enjoy the sound. 
  

  
 here after this level, i start hearing the annoying sound and feel like the sound became not so clean, and little more and the hiss start,  else before that level the sound feels thin, with a small sound stage and not worth it,  but really the sound before this knob level feels thin!! really not worth it, i started to doubt my unit, its used...

 maybe this unit is faulty?  should i go pico power or something?


----------



## cooperpwc

Pico Power has a fuller sound than the Pico Slim with more low end oomph. I think that it is the better amp across the board but it is much bigger too. I am guessing that you would like the Pico Power...
  
 I didn't like the Pico Slim with the ES5 but absolutely loved it with the IE800. Synergy matters with this amp.
  
 I can't comment on your used unit though.


----------



## Shini44

btw the Mentor got 32 ohms, not 16 ohms like most of the CIEMs, i guess i will go pico power then.


----------



## Bananaheadlin

Reading good reviews on this with the JH16. Hoping to try it soon since my JH16 is on order and waiting now.


----------



## Currawong

I just checked and the Pico Slim has a very tiny amount of hiss at full volume -- definitely not enough to be an issue. Any other weird noises would be coming from whatever was plugged in to it.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

currawong said:


> I just checked and the Pico Slim has a very tiny amount of hiss at full volume -- definitely not enough to be an issue. Any other weird noises would be coming from whatever was plugged in to it.


 
  
 That's what I told Shini44 in PM.  very tiny hiss starting at past 4 o'clock for me, at volumes that would blow out my IEM and ears if music was playing.  I can't usually listen with the volume past 2 o'clock, and staying below 12 o'clock is normal for me.


----------



## justin w.

all of the digitally controlled analog volume controls add noise, which is why you hear hiss with the knob at those levels. its a trade off. you either have unbalanced left/right channels at the levels you actually listen at (standard volume pot), or you have balanced channels and hiss at levels you will never use (pico slim).


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

justin w. said:


> all of the digitally controlled analog volume controls add noise, which is why you hear hiss with the knob at those levels. its a trade off. you either have unbalanced left/right channels at the levels you actually listen at (standard volume pot), or you have balanced channels and hiss at levels you will never use (pico slim).


 
  
 A perfect trade-off, and it's never been an issue for me. Thanks!


----------



## Shini44

currawong said:


> I just checked and the Pico Slim has a very tiny amount of hiss at full volume -- definitely not enough to be an issue. Any other weird noises would be coming from whatever was plugged in to it.


 
  


headphoneaddict said:


> That's what I told Shini44 in PM.  very tiny hiss starting at past 4 o'clock for me, at volumes that would blow out my IEM and ears if music was playing.  I can't usually listen with the volume past 2 o'clock, and staying below 12 o'clock is normal for me.


 
  
 for me it was cool on the 12 o'clock as will , not a bad amp the slim is really good its just the UM CIEM

 someone reported in the pico power thread, the UM CIEMs are better to be used with the power , he got all the 3 pico portable amp/dac and confirmed that UM ciems are better with the pico power :3 
  
 my pico power will be here on Saturday, i hope so


----------



## Shini44

hey guys!! it wasn't the slim!! it was the iUSB all the time!! somehow the Mentor and the iUSB don't get along, when i removed it, all the problems that i was speaking about was gone!! the pico power had the same problem but even worse , thats why i removed the iUSB to test the theory and i was right!!! lol! 

 yet the iUSB was always fine with any other setup,  glad that i fixed the problem anyway :3


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

shini44 said:


> hey guys!! it wasn't the slim!! it was the iUSB all the time!! somehow the Mentor and the iUSB don't get along, when i removed it, all the problems that i was speaking about was gone!! the pico power had the same problem but even worse , thats why i removed the iUSB to test the theory and i was right!!! lol!
> 
> yet the iUSB was always fine with any other setup,  glad that i fixed the problem anyway :3


 
  
 I think I tried to advise you in PM on what you could do to see if the hiss was from your source. Glad you figured it out.
  
 EDIT - Yep, confirmed from my first PM to you:
  


> Unplug your source or DAC, and then with nothing but your IEM plugged into the Slim listen and test for hiss.  If it is almost completely silent then the issue is likely with whatever source you are connecting to the amp's input jack.  However, hiss that is only heard at 100% is never a problem because you will never turn the volume that high with an IEM.


----------



## Bananaheadlin

Hope this isn't a weird question, but how quiet does the Pico Slim go? All my current amps aren't exactly very sensitive ciem friendly and as a result the lowest knob without channel imbalance is already operated loud. They're also giving out quite a hiss at even the lowest level (levels where channel imbalance is present) so I'm starting to look at alternatives now.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

The volume can go so low that the ringing in my ears is louder than the music.


----------



## justin w.

it goes down to about -110dB. some digital volume controls only to about -63dB. with a typical pot on a portable amp you might not have balanced left/right channels until about -40dB


----------



## castleofargh

I can't see myself ever going back to analog volume control when using IEMs. and the pico slim does have one of the nicest volume control at low levels for IEMs.


----------



## Bananaheadlin

headphoneaddict said:


> The volume can go so low that the ringing in my ears is louder than the music. :blink:




That response will do! Haha thanks


----------



## Oomingmak

Has anyone ever had issues with the sound of their Pico Slim occasionally cutting out, either from the lod jack or the headphone out? There's like an intermittent connection and I've gone so far as to open the amp in an attempt to fix it but nothing works. I've used three different pico slims and they all have had the same issue. I use twag v2 cables with oyaide connectors.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

oomingmak said:


> Has anyone ever had issues with the sound of their Pico Slim occasionally cutting out, either from the lod jack or the headphone out? There's like an intermittent connection and I've gone so far as to open the amp in an attempt to fix it but nothing works. I've used three different pico slims and they all have had the same issue. I use twag v2 cables with oyaide connectors.


 
  
 I have definitely had some connectors that did not seat well in the pico slim amp jack.  But I cannot recall which ones because it was a long time ago.


----------



## musicheaven

oomingmak said:


> Has anyone ever had issues with the sound of their Pico Slim occasionally cutting out, either from the lod jack or the headphone out? There's like an intermittent connection and I've gone so far as to open the amp in an attempt to fix it but nothing works. I've used three different pico slims and they all have had the same issue. I use twag v2 cables with oyaide connectors.




I have and did exactly what you mentioned. I opened up the case, use a very small flat screwdriver and push the connector pins in the connectors. That allows the the plug to get a tighter fit. My take is that he should have used better plugs.


----------



## Oomingmak

musicheaven said:


> I have and did exactly what you mentioned. I opened up the case, use a very small flat screwdriver and push the connector pins in the connectors. That allows the the plug to get a tighter fit. My take is that he should have used better plugs.


 

 Yes I did that but eventually the pins become loose again and at this point I'm ready to give up on it. I love its sound and it's perfect with my JH16 pros but it's annoying to deal with. I'll attempt to fix it somehow but if that doesn't work then oh well, I guess I'll have to find another amplifier.


----------



## musicheaven

oomingmak said:


> Yes I did that but eventually the pins become loose again and at this point I'm ready to give up on it. I love its sound and it's perfect with my JH16 pros but it's annoying to deal with. I'll attempt to fix it somehow but if that doesn't work then oh well, I guess I'll have to find another amplifier.




If It's under warranty, return the amp to Justin and tell him to fix it.


----------



## WCDchee

Im from Singapore and i have a pico slim which i bought second hand. I would like to have it fixed as it has a loose headphone jack. Is it possible to get it repaired?


----------



## musicheaven

wcdchee said:


> Im from Singapore and i have a pico slim which i bought second hand. I would like to have it fixed as it has a loose headphone jack. Is it possible to get it repaired?




PM'd I assumed your the first buyer if not he most likely would charge a small fee but still is worth it, hey who knows as long as you pay for delivery he might do it for free. Just email him about your situation. 

Good luck!


----------



## Audiowood

Pico slim and imod out to se846 blue filter works really well, synergy is perfect.


----------



## nuss

Hi
  
 Is anyone here using the Pico Slim with the newest Gen iPod Nanos  or  Touches?  Does it make a significant difference to the quality of the sound (nano and touch especially) when using with High end CIEMs?


----------



## maricius

I recently tried pairing my newly bought (secondhand) HeadAmp Pico Slim with my DX90 and these are my impressions:
  
 The DX90's onboard amp has surely more power when driving full sized headphones. So the sound comparisons are while using my FAD Heaven VI. The soundstage has equal depth maybe the DX90 winning by a little due to a more laidback midrange. The DX90 wins in soundstage width noticeably but most apparent was in soundstage height even with IEMs (really wasn't expecting that). The DX90 has slightly more midbass and more subbass than the Pico. The Pico Slim wins in clarity and articulation. Although less spread out, instruments are better defined and the DX90 seems muffled in comparison (the DX90 is not muffled at all). Bass had more detail on the Pico and was tighter but was quite lean. This would probably pair well with IEMs with strong bass as I hear better control from the Pico. Again, the Pico Slim won in clarity of the mids but pushed it towards the sweet but slightly cold side as opposed to the less cold mids of the DX90's onboard amp.
  
 Overall, if you already have a DX90, there is no need for a Pico Slim unless bass is too much with mids that are muffled. If that's so even with the DX90, you should probably just change your headphones…
  
 It gets more interesting when it becomes the iPod Video 5.5g with Pico Slim versus the DX90. The DX90 wins in overall technicalities but I just love the tonality of my Heaven VI with the iPod and Pico. Less bass and soundstage but better clarity while still keeping warm and smooth mids. I probably wouldn't have bought the DX90 if I got the Pico Slim first. That being said, I enjoy both setups equally and will continue to use both depending on my mood.


----------



## reeltime

Question for anyone-- My Pico Slim used to connect to my iPhone 4s through the dock connector-- i had a small 1.5 inch connector from (i think) ALO audio.  
  
 Times change and so do phones.  I now have an iPhone 6 plus.  Here's the question:  What's the best way to use the Pico now that the dock connector has changed to a lightning adapter?


----------



## maricius

reeltime said:


> Question for anyone-- My Pico Slim used to connect to my iPhone 4s through the dock connector-- i had a small 1.5 inch connector from (i think) ALO audio.
> 
> Times change and so do phones.  I now have an iPhone 6 plus.  Here's the question:  What's the best way to use the Pico now that the dock connector has changed to a lightning adapter?


 

 Get one of those tiny dongle type DAC/amps that can function at line level with either no amp stages or amp stages inferior to the Pico Slim. There's ALO Audio's the Key, M2Tech's hiFace DAC (DAC only). There's the HRT Microstreamer, AQ Dragonfly, Meridian Explorer, and the Geek Out, for the DAC/amps though the last may have a better amp section. 
  
 I'm thinking CCK into one of the DAC only dongles, a very short interconnect such as http://www.jdslabs.com/products/146/ultra-short-3-5mm-interconnect-cable/ and the Pico Slim. Considering the size of the Pico and the DAC dongles, it shouldn't be too thick and you'd only have a concern in keeping it stuck together… maybe an iPhone case just for these already stuck on them?


----------



## reeltime

maricius said:


> Get one of those tiny dongle type DAC/amps that can function at line level with either no amp stages or amp stages inferior to the Pico Slim. There's ALO Audio's the Key, M2Tech's hiFace DAC (DAC only). There's the HRT Microstreamer, AQ Dragonfly, Meridian Explorer, and the Geek Out, for the DAC/amps though the last may have a better amp section.
> 
> I'm thinking CCK into one of the DAC only dongles, a very short interconnect such as http://www.jdslabs.com/products/146/ultra-short-3-5mm-interconnect-cable/ and the Pico Slim. Considering the size of the Pico and the DAC dongles, it shouldn't be too thick and you'd only have a concern in keeping it stuck together… maybe an iPhone case just for these already stuck on them?


 
  
 But those interfaces (ALO key, Dragonfly) are USB-- and I'm facing a lightning connector off the phone. I'm not opposed to an outside DAC, but it needs to interface with the iPhone somehow, and be extremely portable-- the Slim is really small.  I'm just wondering if there's a better way to get the signal out of the iPhone than a headphone jack.  The nice thing about the old dock connector is it sent a line-level output to the Pico Slim, in one small cable.


----------



## maricius

reeltime said:


> But those interfaces (ALO key, Dragonfly) are USB-- and I'm facing a lightning connector off the phone. I'm not opposed to an outside DAC, but it needs to interface with the iPhone somehow, and be extremely portable-- the Slim is really small.  I'm just wondering if there's a better way to get the signal out of the iPhone than a headphone jack.  The nice thing about the old dock connector is it sent a line-level output to the Pico Slim, in one small cable.




I'm sorry but doesn't the Apple CCK (Camera Connector Kit) solve that lightning to USB issue as mentioned??

*edit* assuming the iPhone's 0.100A output is sufficient for powering the outboard DAC


----------



## castleofargh

I think he's looking for a way to get a line out(analog) from the iphone. not a digital out as the pico slim is only an amp.(can't help I know nothing about the lightning stuff, soz).


----------



## maricius

castleofargh said:


> I think he's looking for a way to get a line out(analog) from the iphone. not a digital out as the pico slim is only an amp.(can't help I know nothing about the lightning stuff, soz).




Impossible on the Lightning connector apple devices. There is an accessory that seems like a converter jnto tne 30 pin line out but it's actually just another DAC disguised as a lightning to 30 pin adapter. Again, the only way to get an analog line level output with a lightning device without double amping is through another USB DAC with a line level output through the Apple Camera Connector Kit.


----------



## cooperpwc

maricius said:


> Impossible on the Lightning connector apple devices. There is an accessory that seems like a converter jnto tne 30 pin line out but it's actually just another DAC disguised as a lightning to 30 pin adapter. Again, the only way to get an analog line level output with a lightning device without double amping is through another USB DAC with a line level output through the Apple Camera Connector Kit.


 
  
 The Apple line out converter with a DAC chip inside is the official solution. It is not small to match the Pico Slim though.
  
 The best solution is to use the headphone jack at full volume. As I understand, those CODEC chips used in iPhones (currently Cirrus Logic?) don't have a true line capability out anyway. Even if you could tap into the chip (you can't), you would not be bypassing the amp stage.


----------



## ttaazz

Hello to all, there are several version of Pico SLim? For example a version with replaceable battery?


----------



## meraias

audiowood said:


> Pico slim and imod out to se846 blue filter works really well, synergy is perfect.


 
  
 Audiowood or anyone, could you please share alittle on pico slim's volume dial headroom especially with the 846 (or iems in general)? say at 100% DAC out, would it still give you at least around 30% of the lower dial to play with?


----------



## meraias

My problem with amping IEMs is that usually I can only set it around the 5% dial at most.


----------



## castleofargh

meraias said:


> My problem with amping IEMs is that usually I can only set it around the 5% dial at most.


 

 the pico slim has a digital control of the volume so it really doesn't matter where you are, you keep the precision and can nicely fine tune your volume setting by 0.5db increments without ever having to worry about channel imbalance. it's one of the reasons why it's been praised so much as an IEM amp.
 and the gain value isn't high anyway.


----------



## justin w.

the max attenuation of the pico slim is -110dB and it has 0.5dB steps
  
 a typical analog pot on most portable amps has 60-70dB attenuation, and usually the channels are not balanced until around -40dB.


----------



## sluker

I finally joined the club. 
At first listen everything you guys say in this thread seems to be accurate. 
Kudos Justin.

This rig sounds great with my JH-16's and my magnum builds. 128gb micro SD = all my FLAC's with 20gb to spare, plus 50+hours of battery life. I deed to make an LOD to fit and it will be all set.


----------



## Ivabign

I just picked up one of these little guys and hooked it to the HO of a nano 7th gen - sounds pretty damned good - I remember reading somewhere that the output was no louder than a nano on its own (just the goodness of a superior amp) but I have to say that doesn't seem like the case - hooked up to my JH16's, the amp has a much bigger and (heavens!) louder output than the nano alone...
  
 Is it because I shouldn't use the HO? Is there a such thing as a "lightning to 3.5mm" cable?
  
 ...also, does anyone have a copy of the manual? I would love to get a photo of the thing for reference - although I am savvy enough to fi=gure out how to use it...


----------



## shigzeo

justin w. said:


> the max attenuation of the pico slim is -110dB and it has 0.5dB steps
> 
> a typical analog pot on most portable amps has 60-70dB attenuation, and usually the channels are not balanced until around -40dB.


 

 Which (-110dB) sounds ridiculously good.


----------



## Mooses9

does the pico slim shut off over the period of time when charging after the battery is fully charged? i know it says like 3 hours just wondered


----------



## Mooses9

Noone?


----------



## magnium

mooses9 said:


> does the pico slim shut off over the period of time when charging after the battery is fully charged? i know it says like 3 hours just wondered



For old times sake, I charged my Pico Slim last night before I went to bed. When I woke up this morning, the charge light was no longer on.


----------



## salla45

I am keenly interested in the Pico Slim. After a couple of months of trying to find a neutral gain only solution for the line out of my X3ii Fiio, I am really pleased to read the reviews of the Slim and would like your feedback and advice if possible prior to pulling the trigger, so to speak 
  
 Basically, I have a pair of GR10 Grados and find them very sensitive to different sources; I upgraded to the Fiio X3ii which I am overall very pleased with, however there's a noticeable muddying of the sound when listening to the variable output. The line out is much cleaner and leaner.
  
 I tried to get the most of this by applying an E12 from Fiio to the line out, but it's not really done the trick, hence my search for a more transparent amp.
  
 My questions to you are whether the Grado GR10's to your knowledge are a good match for the Slim and if my "grail" would be largely found with the Slim?
  
 Also... I would like to ask if you have any distribution/stockist in Switzerland so I can buy here?
  
 Thanks in advance for your reply,


----------



## castleofargh

salla45 said:


> I am keenly interested in the Pico Slim. After a couple of months of trying to find a neutral gain only solution for the line out of my X3ii Fiio, I am really pleased to read the reviews of the Slim and would like your feedback and advice if possible prior to pulling the trigger, so to speak
> 
> Basically, I have a pair of GR10 Grados and find them very sensitive to different sources; I upgraded to the Fiio X3ii which I am overall very pleased with, however there's a noticeable muddying of the sound when listening to the variable output. The line out is much cleaner and leaner.
> 
> ...


 

 how did you decide that the line out of the X3² sounded how you wished if the E12 didn't do it? that's probably the most important part to answer you. what conditions gave you a nice sound?
  
 here is my *wild unsubstantiated guess* here: it's an impedance thing, and you prefer the gr10 with high impedance. http://1.1.1.5/bmi/en.goldenears.net/en/files/attach/images/108/332/006/d86e5bc2b7e412b5336098e2d215c3a1.png
 something like a 100 or 150 ohm output of a line out would certainly make it brighter.
 if I'm right(emphasis on the IF!!!!!), sadly the pico slim won't do what you wish for as it has also a nice low impedance output. I suggest EQ(I might be able to help with the values if it's really an impedance thing), or buying a resistor adapter.


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## salla45

castleofargh said:


> how did you decide that the line out of the X3² sounded how you wished if the E12 didn't do it? that's probably the most important part to answer you. what conditions gave you a nice sound?
> 
> here is my *wild unsubstantiated guess* here: it's an impedance thing, and you prefer the gr10 with high impedance. http://1.1.1.5/bmi/en.goldenears.net/en/files/attach/images/108/332/006/d86e5bc2b7e412b5336098e2d215c3a1.png
> something like a 100 or 150 ohm output of a line out would certainly make it brighter.
> if I'm right(emphasis on the IF!!!!!), sadly the pico slim won't do what you wish for as it has also a nice low impedance output. I suggest EQ(I might be able to help with the values if it's really an impedance thing), or buying a resistor adapter.


 
 Thanks for reply. I have dabbled with the line out as a direct feed into the IEMs using the Fiio in DAC mode and attenuating volume via the PC. I am told this is unhealthy for the Fiio however as it's not intended to supply current (even in small amounts to the GR10's).  Having said that, it does not seem to be suffering. I'd like to hear more on how, specifically I am putting the hardware at risk if sonically I can't hear distortions and nothing seems to be "frying" (ignorance may well be bliss in this case  )
  
 Specifically in reply to this;
  
 "how did you decide that the line out of the X3² sounded how you wished if the E12 didn't do it? that's probably the most important part to answer you. what conditions gave you a nice sound?"
  
 I'm not sure what you mean here. Perhaps I have replied above to this? The sound is very similar however to that which I get with my Sony Vaio pro 13 laptop (ie the Line out of the Fiio), and that is designed for headphone use. 
  
 It's just generally a clearer, cleaner sound, with more "air" and detail to the mid and upper frequencies. I REALLY want to achieve this cleaner sound portably, and it's putting me off listening to the setup I have. 
  
 It may be an impedance thin as reviewers have specifically said they can't hear differences in the various outputs and with and without amps, etc. I'm mightily confused and have been considering recently changing players, upgrading IEM's and now looking at further amplification.
  
 You mention this "I suggest EQ(I might be able to help with the values if it's really an impedance thing)" ; you mean using the Fiio EQ? Something Ive been messing with, but I can't get the feeling it's not just levels but detail I'm losing out on and ref this "or buying a resistor adapter"; I have no idea what this means? Perhaps you can elaborate , thanks!
  
 Ps... i was also looking into a simple volume pot to attenuate the lineout level passively whilst on the go, but I think this is a "bad idea" based on what I have said in the 1st para?
  
 Pfff. mightily confused!
  
 Any further pointers are appreciated


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## castleofargh

> Originally Posted by *salla45* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Thanks for reply. I have dabbled with the line out as a direct feed into the IEMs using the Fiio in DAC mode and attenuating volume via the PC. I am told this is unhealthy for the Fiio however as it's not intended to supply current (even in small amounts to the GR10's).  Having said that, it does not seem to be suffering. I'd like to hear more on how, specifically I am putting the hardware at risk if sonically I can't hear distortions and nothing seems to be "frying" (ignorance may well be bliss in this case  )
> 
> ...


 

 yeah so I guessed right for once (yay!)
  
 sorry for the OFF topic guys, this has nothing to do with the pico.
 so as I said your options are EQ or resistors adapters(you can get some on ebay looking for fake etymotic er4 adapters, and asking the guy to change the resistor value). an old remote volume stuff would have the same impedance impact, but the lower you set the volume the more impedance you'll get, so the chances of you getting the right loudness with the right signature at the same time are very small. I wouldn't suggest this, also as you said a line out isn't designed for those stuff.
  
 I didn't find what the line output impedance of the X3² was but it's safe to say it's between 100 and 150ohm, they do very conventional stuff.
 here is what to expect as signature change from the gr10 when using a 100ohm output. it's the variation from the actual signature, not the signature itself! so for example, at 7khz the line out will make the gr10 to sound about 5db louder compared to 1khz(that itself compared to using the headphone out).  
 I only entered a limited number of values(lazy) so it doesn't show the little wiggling between 3 and 5khz. but the purpose was to show how the source impedance changes the signature of your IEM. I hope that can help(maybe take it to PM if you need more as it's really off topic)

  
 I would clearly deal with this with EQ as it's free and doesn't risk under damping the gr10(I doubt it's audible but who knows?).


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## salla45

castleofargh said:


> yeah so I guessed right for once (yay!)
> 
> sorry for the OFF topic guys, this has nothing to do with the pico.
> so as I said your options are EQ or resistors adapters(you can get some on ebay looking for fake etymotic er4 adapters, and asking the guy to change the resistor value). an old remote volume stuff would have the same impedance impact, but the lower you set the volume the more impedance you'll get, so the chances of you getting the right loudness with the right signature at the same time are very small. I wouldn't suggest this, also as you said a line out isn't designed for those stuff.
> ...


 
  
 Yes, sorry for the off topic stuff here 
  
 Just to wrap up (and thanks for the input here  ) - you are saying basically I am under an illusion that the lineout is better and I'm just hearing a "distorted" output which I am deeming as "better" because it happens to hit my personal buttons so to speak? Maybe I've been going off at a tangent with this one. Psycho acoustics  play a big factor also; one gets used to a brighter sound and then it takes time to readjust to normal again (whatever that is). Ill go and have a lie down now and try and forget all my nonsense... still, the Pico Slim does look a nice option


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## castleofargh

it's a very real signature change. not a question of illusion or distortion. it's not like the GR10 are flat to begin with, so changing the signature is merely finding out what you yourself prefer.
 but 99% of the change you heard from the line out comes from frequency response change induced by the impedance of the line out, the very thing an equalizer can replicate. and it could be very crudely summarized as the fact that you appreciate your GR10 with less bass.


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## salla45

castleofargh said:


> it's a very real signature change. not a question of illusion or distortion. it's not like the GR10 are flat to begin with, so changing the signature is merely finding out what you yourself prefer.
> but 99% of the change you heard from the line out comes from frequency response change induced by the impedance of the line out, the very thing an equalizer can replicate. and it could be very crudely summarized as the fact that you appreciate your GR10 with less bass.


 
 Fully understand. I didn't mean that the difference was illusory, just that I was under the illusion that the lineout was the "right" sound when in fact it was grossly coloured: Psychoacoustically also I was convincing myself that, because the lineout MUST be the "pure sound", the actual outputs of the variable out and E12, were thus inferior, coloured, when in fact they were just giving a flatter response which sounded coloured to my biased perspective. The mind can play tricks like that; seeing something from a different viewpoint can change everything. I really thank you for your clarification. The stupid-veil has now been lifted and I can go back to getting used to normality again (until the next time, lol). Haha. It only cost me an E12, could have been a lot worse. I owe you a drink my friend


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## ttaazz

Well, I have for some time that Pico slim and I must admit that I am amazed by the power that emerges from such a small object. The stage width is not strong point but otherwise it is pretty excellent.


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## Jedaite

Hello guys. Does anyone know why when I plug in my earphones into the 3.5mm jack of the Pico Slim I hear some static noise?
 Also, sometimes I need to turn the jack while it's plugged in, since the sound is extremely muffled and no bass can be heard. Sometimes, I only hear sound from one earpiece.
 This all goes away after the jack stays inside the Pico for about 10 minutes or so. Any idea on why this happens and how it can be fixed? Please let me know, since it's been driving me crazy.
  
 ionut


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## pperconel

Hi and happy new year to all.
 I bought this little amp and I must say I am surprised by the power that comes out of a machine of this size ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I would be talking more but for now I'm delighted with my purchase!
  
 I would like to test other amps (see DAC) to compare. Some were able to compare it  pico slim with the Oppo HA2 for example? Or Cayin C5 (he seems to have good press this one!) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm also going to ask the question on each of these two amps forum


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## kiwirugby

ttaazz said:


> Well, I have for some time that Pico slim and I must admit that I am amazed by the power that emerges from such a small object. The stage width is not strong point but otherwise it is pretty excellent.


 
 It's so good to read that Justin's little gem is still very much on the front pages of the portable amp forum.  So deserving.  I have had mine ever since they Pico Slim came out and it's been with me all over the world, but mostly in the gym with my iMod!  Actually, one of the sound features I have found amazing with the Pico Slim is the stereo width and separation (playing mostly classical lossless).  Maybe not so much all around sound, but some real right/left definition and calrity.  So, sorry to disagree - respectfully - but my experience is different in terms of "stage width".
  
 As much as this little amp has travelled and been knocking around in my short's pocket, other than a little bit of wear on the charging port, this champ has held up and worked flawlessly.  Testament to Justin's remarkable talents.


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## Head_case

It's great isn't it? 
  
 I must've got my chrome coloured first edition one about the same time as you.  Love it lots with my Sennheiser HD25/Amperior set up for running.   Works great for the Beyerdynamic T5ps - shockingly well!  The leatherette case is a bit battered but the little amp is so sweet!
  
 Have to say, it's a bit mismatched with Ultrasone Pro900s which have a higher Ohm rating around 40, compared to 32 of the Senns.  They drive 32s comfortably but the Ultrasones, particularly for 1970's recorded classical music, I'm hearing more extraneous outside noise even at full volume for source mini-disc and amp.   
  
 In ears are prob better than large overhead/circumaurals with higher impedances, but I've only tried it with the Sennheiser IE8s.  
  
 Such a well designed micro portable amp!


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## ttaazz

kiwirugby said:


> It's so good to read that Justin's little gem is still very much on the front pages of the portable amp forum.  So deserving.  I have had mine ever since they Pico Slim came out and it's been with me all over the world, but mostly in the gym with my iMod!  Actually, one of the sound features I have found amazing with the Pico Slim is the stereo width and separation (playing mostly classical lossless).  Maybe not so much all around sound, but some real right/left definition and calrity.  So, sorry to disagree - respectfully - but my experience is different in terms of "stage width".
> 
> As much as this little amp has travelled and been knocking around in my short's pocket, other than a little bit of wear on the charging port, this champ has held up and worked flawlessly.  Testament to Justin's remarkable talents.


 
 That's ok, you have the right to have a different opinion than mine. After, may be it is due to my source (a Galaxy S5).
 But that does not enpêche me to love and use every day


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## SDBiotek

jedaite said:


> Hello guys. Does anyone know why when I plug in my earphones into the 3.5mm jack of the Pico Slim I hear some static noise?
> Also, sometimes I need to turn the jack while it's plugged in, since the sound is extremely muffled and no bass can be heard. Sometimes, I only hear sound from one earpiece.
> This all goes away after the jack stays inside the Pico for about 10 minutes or so. Any idea on why this happens and how it can be fixed? Please let me know, since it's been driving me crazy.
> 
> ionut



I don't own a Pico Slim, but my guess is that the headphone jack is getting worn out and is not always making good contact with the plug on your headphone. Maybe you can get the Jack replaced. Maybe you can go directly to the Headamp site and ask if you can send it in for repair.


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## ttaazz

jedaite said:


> Hello guys. Does anyone know why when I plug in my earphones into the 3.5mm jack of the Pico Slim I hear some static noise?
> Also, sometimes I need to turn the jack while it's plugged in, since the sound is extremely muffled and no bass can be heard. Sometimes, I only hear sound from one earpiece.
> This all goes away after the jack stays inside the Pico for about 10 minutes or so. Any idea on why this happens and how it can be fixed? Please let me know, since it's been driving me crazy.
> 
> ionut


 
 In fact, that's strange ! I dont think about a problem with the headphone jack, because the static noise as no reason to go away after somes minutes ? I think about intern electronics maybe ? But mzybe i'm wrong


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## pperconel

Hello *Jedaite* 
  
 So, what news with you problem? It is resolved, you sent your Pico Slim repair or you do "with" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I hope this will never happen to my Pico


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## Jedaite

pperconel said:


> Hello *Jedaite*
> 
> So, what news with you problem? It is resolved, you sent your Pico Slim repair or you do "with"
> 
> ...


 
 Hey there, there's been no resolution for my problem. The static discharge when you plug in your eaprhones into the amp is normal from what I've read here and Justin (from HeadAmp, the guy who makes these) said it's normal, but that's all I remember. Idk what causes this static discharge issue, but it's a shame it's present in a $400 amp. As for the sound artifacts (missing bass, and other artifacts I have no knowledge or words to explain) it happened even with a new cable.
  
 I just need to wiggle the cable a bit while it's inserted into the amp to fix the issue. This rarely happens now with my new Linum cable, (which features a straight 3.5mm jack), but I do have to wonder why it happens in the first place. I e-mailed Justin about it several weeks ago, but got no response. It's not an end-game issue or a deal breaker, but in some cases, especially if you have a right angle 3.5mm jack (like I did) it can easily get very annoying to keep wiggling the cable while it's inserted into the amp.


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## pperconel

Ok, I hope you will find a solution.
  
 To the right jack rather than angled jack,, I am not surprised because with the right jack, you will be less likely to hang the jack and thus create a problem.


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## Jedaite

pperconel said:


> Ok, I hope you will find a solution.
> 
> To the right jack rather than angled jack,, I am not surprised because with the right jack, you will be less likely to hang the jack and thus create a problem.


 

 Thanks, I'm not running into these issues anymore with the new Linum Bax cable but on extremely rare occasions. So it's all good at the moment


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## pperconel

Ok, enjoy now


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## Caruryn

pperconel said:


> Hi and happy new year to all.
> I bought this little amp and I must say I am surprised by the power that comes out of a machine of this size !
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Power C5>>>>Slim
 Soundstage C5>Slim
 Clarity Slim>C5
 Detail Slim>>C5
 Treble and articulation slim>>C5
 Bass quantity C5(w/o boost)>Slim,Detail slim>C5
 Slim neutral,C5 warm.


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## pperconel

Thanks a lot


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## Jedaite

The problem with the audio cutting out, lack of bass, right channel audio only, static issues are back. The 3.5mm audio port on the Pico slim is just poor quality. I've even brought this up to Justin, but got no reply. I've tried multiple cables, including 2 stock Westone cables and now the Linux Bax.
  
 Does anyone know if the 3.5mm port can be removed and changed with a higher quality one? This is unacceptable for a $435 amp and makes listening to my music a pain and not a pleasure.


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## SDBiotek

It's probably not too hard to replace the jack. I don't have the Pico Slim, but had an older model Pico and own the Pico Power. Those both have sturdy jacks, and definitely better quality than others I have seen. It is possible to get an amp with a faulty jack, though. Once a jack has been used a lot, or subjected too too much pulling at angle, or wiggling, it is normal for it to wear out, no matter the quality. Keep on trying to contact HeadAmp through the HeadAmp website. There is even a phone number listed, if the email isn't working for you.


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## Jedaite

sdbiotek said:


> It's probably not too hard to replace the jack. I don't have the Pico Slim, but had an older model Pico and own the Pico Power. Those both have sturdy jacks, and definitely better quality than others I have seen. It is possible to get an amp with a faulty jack, though. Once a jack has been used a lot, or subjected too too much pulling at angle, or wiggling, it is normal for it to wear out, no matter the quality. Keep on trying to contact HeadAmp through the HeadAmp website. There is even a phone number listed, if the email isn't working for you.


 
 Thanks, I'll see how I go forward with this. My sony vaio 3D laptop has a nice jack that works flawlessly and it's been more than 5 years now that I've used it extensively. I think the Pico Slim just has a poor quality jack which again, is not acceptable for an amp in this price range.
  
 As for replacing the jack, I don't know if want to risk breaking a $435 amp, so I'll refrain from attempting that.


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## JWizzlez

Anyone have recommendations for a small portable DAC to go with the Pico to feed my Sennheiser IE800 IEMs? I am running off an iPhone 6 and have the camera connector kit. I've been looking into the Cozoy Astrapi and the Meridian Explorer 1, since I can get both for around $100 via eBay. I currently have the Creative SoundBlaster e5, which while having some amazing features and bluetooth abilities, seems to be pretty limited in separation and detail retrieval. I haven't used it with the Pico yet, but I expect and prefer a smaller and dedicated DAC will be the best option. Appreciate any suggestions for DACs in that $100-200 eBay range to get or if anyone here thinks the SoundBlaster E5 will sound great with the Pico pairing. I've already tried all the Fiio products and was underwhelmed enough to move on to higher-end brands am really interested into diving into the Chinese Hi-FI aka Chi-FI world.
  
 I also have a friend that wants to sell me a Ray Samuels Sr-71B, which seems to be the only sub $500 portable amp that has more praise than the Pico. Anyone here have any experience comparing the two?


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## sluker

Anyone know how to get ahold of Justin? I tried email, phone and PM... Nothing.
 My Pico Slim less then a year old lost all bass response. I have been sending him emails for a month. 
 Kind of frustrating.


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## Jedaite

sluker said:


> Anyone know how to get ahold of Justin? I tried email, phone and PM... Nothing.
> My Pico Slim less then a year old lost all bass response. I have been sending him emails for a month.
> Kind of frustrating.


 
 Have you tried wiggling the cable of your headphones? I may know what you're talking about. If this doesn't work, then there might be a problem with the amp.


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## depthgrammar (Sep 12, 2018)

_


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## mayurs

I got my slim a couple of weeks back delivered by my sister in India. Ran beautifully for some days and then suddenly today got sound that had some frequencies completely lost, kind of when the headphone is improperly inserted. Sending it back for repairs from India was not a practical thing, so opened it up and pushed the small plates of the headphone connector inside using a screwdriver and voila the contact has returned and all the amazing sound is back again. Mine is just 2 months old but its a very small fix so lets see how long this lasts before I have to redo this.


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## musicheaven

Well known issue with the Pico Slim, I must have done it a few times. It’s a very simple circuitry and some components are not as sturdy as recent amps plus you got to pick something small because of it’s diminutive size. It’s a good amp no doubt but there are better ones out there.


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## tracyca

Headamp Pico slim still one of the best clean sounding amps for sensitive IEM.


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