# Chaintech AV-710 Setup Thread, Including True 44.1kHz Wolfson Output in XP



## infinitesymphony

*[size=small]Windows XP 32-bit[/size]*

 This is the guide to use if you're interested in getting true 44.1 kHz audio from the Wolfson DAC rather than using inferior and processor-intensive software resampling algorithms to upsample.

 1. Install the card into a free PCI slot on the motherboard.
 2. Plug your amplification device (ex. speakers, receiver, etc.) into the black "Back Surr" jack on the back of the card next to the optical output. [Previous card revision: "Alt. Out"]
 3. Download the Envy 24 Family Driver version 4.73b linked here and install it using Setup.exe (Application) in the Setup directory. This version is the last one to support the following trick:
 4. Once the drivers are installed, open up the Envy control panel using its tray icon on the taskbar.
 5. Click 2CH if it's not already selected (not 2CH Hi-Sample Rate).
 6. Go into the digital output section and enable S/PDIF output, selecting PCM as the sub-option. Click the Auto button under sampling rate.

 Done! You'll now be capable of using Kernel Streaming in Foobar to directly send 44.1 kHz and 48 kHz audio content through your sound card's Wolfson DAC.

 ----------

*[size=small]Windows XP 64-bit[/size]*

 Thanks to *sabotaged* for confirming that this version works!

 1. Install the card into a free PCI slot on the motherboard.
 2. Plug your amplification device (ex. speakers, receiver, etc.) into the black "Back Surr" jack on the back of the card next to the optical output. [Previous card revision: "Alt. Out"]
 3. Download the Envy 24 Family Driver version 4.60b linked here and install it using Setup.exe (Application) in the Setup directory.
 4. Once the drivers are installed, open up the Envy control panel using its tray icon on the taskbar.
 5. Click 2CH if it's not already selected (not 2CH Hi-Sample Rate).
 6. Go into the digital output section and enable S/PDIF output, selecting PCM as the sub-option. Click the Auto button under sampling rate.

 Done! You'll now be capable of using Kernel Streaming in Foobar to directly send 44.1 kHz and 48 kHz audio content through your sound card's Wolfson DAC.

 ----------

*[size=small]Windows Vista 32-bit[/size]*

 Thanks to *n00bler* for the updated information. Note that there is currently no way to prevent resampling to 96 kHz with the AV-710 in Vista.

 1. Install the card into a free PCI slot on the motherboard.
 2. Plug your amplification device (ex. speakers, receiver, etc.) into the black "Back Surr" jack on the back of the card next to the optical output. [Previous card revision: "Alt. Out"]
 3. Download the Envy24 Audio Controller Family Driver version 5.40a linked here and install it using Setup.exe (Application) in the Setup directory.
 4. Once the drivers are installed, open the audio control panel using its tray icon on the taskbar.
 5. Enable 2CH Hi-Sample Rate by clicking the appropriate circle.

 Done! If you plan on using the Kernel Streaming plug-in in Foobar, remember to enable the Resampler plug-in and set it to 96 khz. Possibly a better solution for Vista: use Foobar's WASAPI plug-in and do not use the resampler.

 ----------

*[size=small]Windows Vista 64-bit, Windows 7 32-bit, and Windows 7 64-bit[/size]*

 1. Install the card into a free PCI slot on the motherboard.
 2. Plug your amplification device (ex. speakers, receiver, etc.) into the black "Back Surr" jack on the back of the card next to the optical output. [Previous card revision: "Alt. Out"]
 3. Download the Envy24 Audio Controller Family Driver version 5.40a linked here.
 4. Install it using Setup.exe (Application) in the Setup directory. (*Note:* For Windows 7, use XP SP2 compatibility mode.)
 5. Restart the computer.
 6a. *If using Windows Vista 64-bit or Windows 7 64-bit:* Download and extract the 4.60b XP64 drivers linked here but do not install them.
 6b. *If using Windows 7 32-bit:* Download and extract the 4.73b XP32 drivers linked here but do not install them.
 7. In Device Manager (Windows key + Pause Break key -> Hardware -> Device Manager), under "Sound, video and game controllers", find the "Envy24 Family controller", right-click it and click Properties.
 8. Go to the "Driver" tab and click "Update Driver."
 9. Click "Browse my computer for driver software," browse to the location where you extracted the 4.60b XP64 drivers in step 6. There will be two drivers in the next screen one with and without "64 bits" under the model field. (Info: the non "64 bits" version is actually the current driver 5.40a you installed in step 4, the "64 bits" version is the one you want). It will ask you if you want to continue, click Yes.
 7. Restart the computer again.
 8. Once the drivers are installed, open the audio control panel using its tray icon on the taskbar.
 9. Enable 2CH (not High Quality mode) by clicking the appropriate circle.
 10. In Foobar, select WASAPI (envy24 speakers) as the output device.

 ----------

*Revisions*

*August '07:*

 -added more information about driver installation
 -changed "Alt. Out" to "Back Surr" as most cards seem to use this label for the jack

*October '07:*

 -added Vista setup information [courtesy of Head-Fier Flagger]

*November '07:*

 -added drivers specific to XP 64-bit and revised Vista section

*March '08:*

 -new drivers for Windows Vista 32-bit (5.20b --> 5.30b)

*July '09:*

 -new method for Windows Vista 64-bit and Windows 7 32-bit

*September '09:*

 -new method for Windows 7 64-bit

*December '09:*

 -different final driver version for Windows 7 32-bit


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## ecclesand

And you're doing this without upsampling in Foobar? I can't get it to work...what are your Foobar settings?

 EDIT: Never mind...got it working! Thanks...I was always upsampling to 96Khz to use the Wolfson Dac.


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## infinitesymphony

Ah, I'm glad it's working for you. To my ears, using direct 44.1kHz sounds more neutral than software upsampling, plus it uses up far less CPU cycles. Enjoy!


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## bonjonno

Hi infinitesymphony. I've discussed this with you before, but I had to end up using DirectSound v2.0 because Kernel Streaming kept shutting down whenever my modem kicked in. Otherwise I have all the same settings. Tho the rate says 48K on auto, as soon as FB2K starts playing my flac files, it switches to 44.1K. So is everything optimum?

 BTW, after using the 4.73b driver a few weeks I noticed that the volume would suddenly be lower on startup, and a trip thru the mixer showed that indeed sliders were lower in 2 or 3 places. By themselves. Finally I got tired of constantly readjusting and put in the 4.51c driver. It has a different looking panel, but all the adjustments you talk about are there and the volume setting has been rock solid.


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## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bonjonno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So is everything optimum?_

 

Yep, sounds good... You might think about upgrading to cable/DSL, or getting an external modem. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bonjonno* 
_BTW, after using the 4.73b driver a few weeks I noticed that the volume would suddenly be lower on startup, and a trip thru the mixer showed that indeed sliders were lower in 2 or 3 places. By themselves. Finally I got tired of constantly readjusting and put in the 4.51c driver. It has a different looking panel, but all the adjustments you talk about are there and the volume setting has been rock solid._

 

That's strange... My guess is that some other program is interfering with the controls. For example, Winamp and Windows Media Player have both been known to change the Windows Mixer volume settings when using the volume slider (and also when you start the programs) instead of using their own internal volume controls. But, I'm glad 4.51c fixed the issue... I doubt it'll be much different from 4.73b; the latter is what I recommend only because it's the latest working version.


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## keiith

Thanks for the guide, works well.

 Is there any other tweaks you can use with this card?

 Also I can't seem to get Kernel Streaming to work?

 I get this error - "Unrecoverable playback error: KS output error: error opening device"


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## infinitesymphony

If you'd been upsampling to 96kHz before, make sure that Foobar's resampler isn't in the Active DSPs list. That error is almost always the result of a mismatch between the sample rate that Foobar outputs and what the sound card expects.

 The other tweak capable with the AV-710 is only useful if you're interested in using its optical (TOSlink) output. It involves flashing the card to Prodigy firmware, and in the process, all of the analog outputs are disabled.


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## Fatjohnny

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you'd been upsampling to 96kHz before, make sure that Foobar's resampler isn't in the Active DSPs list. That error is almost always the result of a mismatch between the sample rate that Foobar outputs and what the sound card expects.

 The other tweak capable with the AV-710 is only useful if you're interested in using its optical (TOSlink) output. It involves flashing the card to Prodigy firmware, and in the process, all of the analog outputs are disabled._

 

Weren't people replacing the caps and such, or is everybody just using external amps? 

 It's like a 25' optical run for me to get to my deck, and that can't be changed.

 maybe I'll have to monoprice a long ass toslink cable... Oh wait it doesn't work under vista yet anyways.


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## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fatjohnny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Weren't people replacing the caps and such...?_

 

All of the DIY guys are into replacing almost everything and just imagining the card as a pre-made PCB. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But, doing that is more like a "mod" than a "tweak."

 Sorry about Vista... I know I won't upgrade from XP for a loooong time. Right now, there are virtually no positives (unless you consider the user and hardware interfaces to be an improvement) and plenty of negatives.


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## ShadowVlican

thank you infinitesymphony

 i've since moved to another device, but long ago i do remember the AV-710 was capable of using the wolfsen dac without having to force the hi-rate mode

 you've saved me the trouble from writing my own guide (i've been meaning to test different drivers to see which one did the trick and looks like 4.73b does!)


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## isamu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you'd been upsampling to 96kHz before, make sure that Foobar's resampler isn't in the Active DSPs list. That error is almost always the result of a mismatch between the sample rate that Foobar outputs and what the sound card expects.

 The other tweak capable with the AV-710 is only useful if you're interested in using its optical (TOSlink) output. It involves flashing the card to Prodigy firmware, and in the process, all of the analog outputs are disabled._

 

Hello infinitesymphony. 

 I have a myriad of questions I'm hoping you can help me answer.

 1)I am going to be installing a PC in my car. I am looking for a good sound card that will deliver music in crystal clear quality. The sound card will be connected to an external DSP from Alpine using a TosLink Optical connection(this is the only way to connect to this Alpine DSP). If I buy the Chaintech card and apply the "trick" you posted, will it deliver the sound quality I'm looking for? I don't know anything about upsampling or whatever, I just want to hear clear music from the soundcard.

 2)I have heard of F00bar2000 but have never used it. Can this trick be used in WinAmp? If so, what are the benefits of applying the trick? Will the Chaintech card deliver true 44.1 kHz audio through WinAmp and through the TosLink Optical out? If you're wondering why I prefer WinAmp, it's because it has the DFX DSP plugin. And as far as I know, there is still no version of DFX for Foobar.

 3)Does the Chaintech support EAX 2.0? And if it's connected using the optical out, will I still have access to the many EAX DSP effects such as "Concert Hall", "Stadium", etc? Even after this "trick" is applied?

 4)Even with this "trick", does the Chaintech card sound as good as the E-MU 1212M or 404 cards?

 Thanks in advance


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## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *isamu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1)If I buy the Chaintech card and apply the "trick" you posted, will it deliver the sound quality I'm looking for?_

 

The workaround I posted only applies to analog output. I'm not sure that the AV-710 outputs bit-perfect audio by default... Many users flash the card to another sound card's firmware for the best results. See: Help flashing AV-710 to Prodigy.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *isamu* 
_2)I have heard of F00bar2000 but have never used it. Can this trick be used in WinAmp?_

 

Yes, as long as you use a plug-in for Kernel Streaming and/or ASIO (basically, they do the same thing--circumvent Windows's internal mixing).

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *isamu* 
_3)Does the Chaintech support EAX 2.0?_

 

No, the AV-710 doesn't support any form of EAX or hardware acceleration.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *isamu* 
_4)Even with this "trick", does the Chaintech card sound as good as the E-MU 1212M or 404 cards?_

 

Well... Sound quality is subjective, but having heard both cards firsthand (I own the 1212M and my girlfriend owns the AV-710), I'd say they're not even close--they shouldn't be, considering that the 1212M costs five times more. The 1212M is one of the most resolving sound cards I've ever heard, and its DAC chip (CS4398) has been used in recording studios for several years in Digidesign's top ProTools|HD interfaces. However, like the AV-710, the E-MU cards / audio interfaces don't support EAX.

 In my opinion, you're better off looking for a card that doesn't require tweaking to get bit-perfect digital output. If EAX is important to you, definitely consider looking at Creative's X-Fi series. Creative invented EAX, so they have the best support for it (all the way up to EAX 5.0). Most X-Fi cards use the CS4382 DAC, which apparently sounds pretty good.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *isamu* 
_Thanks in advance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You're welcome. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ----------------

 After re-thinking about your question for a minute, I have a question for you:

 What does the card's sound quality matter if you're only using its digital output? Also, if you're going to an external DSP, couldn't it perform some of the same functions as EAX?


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## Fatjohnny

Thanks for the info.

 Are there any threads on how to do any of that modding/tweaking?

 My machine was running horribly on XP so a fresh start was one of the few positives. My incredibly old TV tuner program and almost everything still works, just pathetic drivers support has been the one thing making it frustrating.

 I do seem to be getting a 'subdued' amount of sound out of the 7/8 jack even in 2 channel mode, it doesn't sound like 'back' it just sounds like a quiet version of what is coming out of the front speakers, is that what I'm actually trying to get out of the wolfson?

 TIA many times over.






  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All of the DIY guys are into replacing almost everything and just imagining the card as a pre-made PCB. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But, doing that is more like a "mod" than a "tweak."

 Sorry about Vista... I know I won't upgrade from XP for a loooong time. Right now, there are virtually no positives (unless you consider the user and hardware interfaces to be an improvement) and plenty of negatives._


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## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fatjohnny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are there any threads on how to do any of that modding/tweaking?_

 

Threads:
AV710 modding?
Modding the AV-710: My experience so far
Is the Chaintech modable?
modding Chaintech AV-710

 You might want to start by looking at the Tweaks section of this review:
Chaintech AV-710 Review

 I never bothered with the jumper mod because I'd read a few responses that said the jumpers only affected the VIA outputs, which of course doesn't help when you're using the Wolfson output.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fatjohnny* 
_I do seem to be getting a 'subdued' amount of sound out of the 7/8 jack even in 2 channel mode, it doesn't sound like 'back' it just sounds like a quiet version of what is coming out of the front speakers, is that what I'm actually trying to get out of the wolfson?_

 

Yes. Under normal conditions, that output would function as the back speakers in a surround arrangement while the VIA DACs fed all of the other channels. The digital output trick allows you to use the Wolfson DAC to output the front two channels (L/R) without having to select 2CH Hi-Sample Rate, which would automatically upsample everything to 96kHz (or 192kHz, depending on which you select).


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## Fatjohnny

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Threads:
AV710 modding?
Modding the AV-710: My experience so far
Is the Chaintech modable?
modding Chaintech AV-710

 You might want to start by looking at the Tweaks section of this review:
Chaintech AV-710 Review

 I never bothered with the jumper mod because I'd read a few responses that said the jumpers only affected the VIA outputs, which of course doesn't help when you're using the Wolfson output.


 Yes. Under normal conditions, that output would function as the back speakers in a surround arrangement while the VIA DACs fed all of the other channels. The digital output trick allows you to use the Wolfson DAC to output the front two channels (L/R) without having to select 2CH Hi-Sample Rate, which would automatically upsample everything to 96kHz (or 192kHz, depending on which you select)._

 

Thanks again, I'll probably disable the front since I don't use it anyways.

 The cool thing I guess is that I'm using the vista beta driver and do seem to be getting something out of the Wolfson so maybe I'll run my old 2.1 pulse logitechs off that.

 I did search a ton and found most of those links, but thanks again and sorry for being a pain in the ass.

 I thought maybe something as 'simple' as replacing a cap or two could be done to 'up the juice' a little.

 I'm lucky I guess that I have sensitive headphones at least.


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## isamu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After re-thinking about your question for a minute, I have a question for you:

 What does the card's sound quality matter if you're only using its digital output?_

 

Good question. I'm sure either, that's why wanted to know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


 Also, if you're going to an external DSP, couldn't it perform some of the same functions as EAX? 
 

Well, no actually. The Alpine PXA-H701 doesn't have some of the virtual soundfield DSP effects I enjoy listening to like "Concert Hall". In fact, I don't even care about the majority of DSP effects. The only one I care about really is "Concert Hall". Does the EMU-1212M have a Concert Hall DSP effect? If so, can you tweak around with it? Like adjust the delay, reverb, echo, etc? And if I use the Toslink Optical out on it, will concert hall be applied?


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## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *isamu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good question. I'm sure either, that's why wanted to know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Well, no actually. The Alpine PXA-H701 doesn't have some of the virtual soundfield DSP effects I enjoy listening to like "Concert Hall". In fact, I don't even care about the majority of DSP effects. The only one I care about really is "Concert Hall". Does the EMU-1212M have a Concert Hall DSP effect? If so, can you tweak around with it? Like adjust the delay, reverb, echo, etc? And if I use the Toslink Optical out on it, will concert hall be applied?_

 

In that case, analog output won't matter... Which begs the question, what's the purpose of the Alpine unit? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The E-MU series has plenty of fairly decent built-in DSP all accessible via a DAW-style interface called PatchMix DSP (which is what sits in the system tray). I'm almost 100% sure that you could find a way to route the DSP through the digital output. It's meant to be studio gear, so the routing options are almost unlimited.

 It's sort of a shame to only use the 1212M for digital output, though I've heard it has low jitter and acts well as a transport. Another option you might consider is finding a VST wrapper for Winamp (example: CTAF MultiFXVST) and downloading one or more of the dozens of free (and near-professional quality) effects plug-ins from http://www.kvraudio.com. This is a cheap or free solution that will work with any sound card.

 So, Winamp + VST -> AV-710 -> (TOSlink output) -> Alpine DSP unit, etc. In this case, you're not really interested in bit-perfect audio, so the stock AV-710 drivers might suit your needs.


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## kanamin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...
 Sorry about Vista... I know I won't upgrade from XP for a loooong time. Right now, there are virtually no positives (unless you consider the user and hardware interfaces to be an improvement) and plenty of negatives._

 

Me neither, but you know there's still DX10 to look forward to, it requires Vista. Hopefully by the time the DX10 games are out, Vista will be better (less holes) and cheaper.


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## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kanamin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Me neither, but you know there's still DX10 to look forward to, it requires Vista. Hopefully by the time the DX10 games are out, Vista will be better (less holes) and cheaper._

 

True, and that's when I'll upgrade... It's sort of like the console wars--I'm not buying a system until an absolutely killer app comes out. Windows XP was the same way; plenty of old applications were broken. Eventually, workarounds were found for almost everything, and the driver support became better over time. I remember when the big deal was that Windows XP ran applications considerably slower than Windows 95/98/98SE/ME on the same machine, since the OS had more system requirements. Perhaps most new computers still aren't good enough to truly run Vista the way it's meant to be run.

 And on that note, I hope VIA releases stable drivers that work with the AV-710.


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## isamu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In that case, analog output won't matter... Which begs the question, what's the purpose of the Alpine unit? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The E-MU series has plenty of fairly decent built-in DSP all accessible via a DAW-style interface called PatchMix DSP (which is what sits in the system tray). I'm almost 100% sure that you could find a way to route the DSP through the digital output. It's meant to be studio gear, so the routing options are almost unlimited.

 It's sort of a shame to only use the 1212M for digital output, though I've heard it has low jitter and acts well as a transport. Another option you might consider is finding a VST wrapper for Winamp (example: CTAF MultiFXVST) and downloading one or more of the dozens of free (and near-professional quality) effects plug-ins from http://www.kvraudio.com. This is a cheap or free solution that will work with any sound card.

 So, Winamp + VST -> AV-710 -> (TOSlink output) -> Alpine DSP unit, etc. In this case, you're not really interested in bit-perfect audio, so the stock AV-710 drivers might suit your needs._

 


 infinitesymphony...you got me thinking... I may have a better solution for my car:

 Since the E-MU1212 sounds so good thought its analog output. Perhaps I can it and connect it to a *Dension Gateway 500* This device is an interface that acts as an AUX input for Mercedes Benz cars, replacing the fiber optic CD changer interface! It's pretty darn cool. Since it has RCA AUX in jacks, I could connect a 1212m from my CarPC and given the great sound quality(supposedly..I haven't heard it yet) it should sound pretty exception don't you think?

 Plus, what if I get the USB version? Will it have rca outs and a headphone out as well?

 How does it sound from the headphone out with headphones by the way?


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## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *isamu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since [the Dension Gateway 500] has RCA AUX in jacks, I could connect a 1212m from my CarPC and given the great sound quality(supposedly..I haven't heard it yet) it should sound pretty exception don't you think?_

 

Assuming that the Dension Gateway 500 won't mess around with the analog signal in some weird way, it should sound great. This option is more flexible because it allows pretty much any audio device with analog outputs to connect to the car.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *isamu* 
_Plus, what if I get the USB version? Will it have rca outs and a headphone out as well?_

 

None of the E-MU USB devices have direct RCA outputs, because they're designed with balanced audio in mind (but they can run unbalanced, too). They all have XLR/TRS outputs, so you'll need either a TRS to RCA adapter like this (~$3 for two), or custom TRS to RCA cables (~$25 each from Blue Jeans Cable) if you want less connections.

 A few side notes: the 1212M, 1616M (laptop and PCI), and 1820M (discontinued) all use the Cirrus CS4398 DAC, while the 0404 USB and 0202 USB use the AKM AK4396. They're both top DACs, but I imagine that they have different sound signatures, and I've seen varying opinions; some people prefer one, some prefer the other. I'd give a slight edge to the CS4398 due to its pro audio / studio roots, but that's only my guess. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The real advantage to USB is portability, which I'm sure is a concern in your application. If you're building a small computer, you should take into account that the 1212M requires two PCI slots: one for the sound/DSP card, and another for the separate analog output card (which is connected to the main card with a ribbon cable). This is a great idea, because it helps to decouple the analog output from electrical interference from the computer's motherboard and other devices, but it also means that you'll lose a PCI slot. The other cards, 1616M and 1820M, have separate breakout boxes for the analog outputs that are connected to the main card via Firewire.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *isamu* 
_How does it sound from the headphone out with headphones by the way?_

 

I haven't heard the headphone output of the E-MU USBs (and breakout boxes), but most reviews are very positive. Apparently it has enough power to drive pretty much any dynamic headphone you would want. It's probably not as good as a headphone amp, but if you consider it a freebie thrown in with your audio interface, it's probably very nice.


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## isamu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Assuming that the Dension Gateway 500 won't mess around with the analog signal in some weird way, it should sound great. This option is more flexible because it allows pretty much any audio device with analog outputs to connect to the car.


 None of the E-MU USB devices have direct RCA outputs, because they're designed with balanced audio in mind (but they can run unbalanced, too). They all have XLR/TRS outputs, so you'll need either a TRS to RCA adapter like this (~$3 for two), or custom TRS to RCA cables (~$25 each from Blue Jeans Cable) if you want less connections.

 A few side notes: the 1212M, 1616M (laptop and PCI), and 1820M (discontinued) all use the Cirrus CS4398 DAC, while the 0404 USB and 0202 USB use the AKM AK4396. They're both top DACs, but I imagine that they have different sound signatures, and I've seen varying opinions; some people prefer one, some prefer the other. I'd give a slight edge to the CS4398 due to its pro audio / studio roots, but that's only my guess. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The real advantage to USB is portability, which I'm sure is a concern in your application. If you're building a small computer, you should take into account that the 1212M requires two PCI slots: one for the sound/DSP card, and another for the separate analog output card (which is connected to the main card with a ribbon cable). This is a great idea, because it helps to decouple the analog output from electrical interference from the computer's motherboard and other devices, but it also means that you'll lose a PCI slot. The other cards, 1616M and 1820M, have separate breakout boxes for the analog outputs that are connected to the main card via Firewire.


 I haven't heard the headphone output of the E-MU USBs (and breakout boxes), but most reviews are very positive. Apparently it has enough power to drive pretty much any dynamic headphone you would want. It's probably not as good as a headphone amp, but if you consider it a freebie thrown in with your audio interface, it's probably very nice._

 

Interesting. Y'know I'm starting to seriously consider the 1616M laptop card instead of USB. Have you heard the 1616M? Right now I own a SoundBlaster Audigy 2Z PCMCIA card which I use with my headphone and sounds pretty darn good to my ears. How much better do you suspect the 1616M laptop will sound in headphones? Is the 1616M pretty much the top of the line when it comes to laptop cards?


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## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *isamu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How much better do you suspect the 1616M laptop will sound in headphones? Is the 1616M pretty much the top of the line when it comes to laptop cards?_

 

It depends on the headphones. I own the 1212M, which has the same DAC as the 1616M, and it sounds pretty good. At ~$450-$500, the 1616M is meant more as a professional audio interface than just a DAC + headphone output, so you might get more for your money by focusing on a separate sound card and headphone amplifier.

 If you really want the best of everything, equipment can become expensive. For example, the Benchmark DAC-1, Lavry DA-10 ("Black"), Grace m902, and Apogee Mini-DAC all function as both DACs and headphone amplifiers. They're in the $1-$2k price range.

 Anyway, let's get this thread back on topic! How 'bout that AV-710?


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## infinitesymphony

A bump for new AV-710 users...


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## Rudy81

Outstanding thread. Thanks for the discussion. I am currently trying to get SPDIF bit perfect output to my audio processor. So far I have been having some difficulty getting foobar to send bit perfect using kernel streaming and have yet to try ASIO.

 Hopefully I will figure this out soon.


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## el_matt0

is this the way that youd all recommend getting bit perfect output from a cpu for music? i use winamp, is it possible to use ks thru winamp with an av710?? if not, i can switch to foobar pretty easily i guess. does this even involve messing with ASIO??


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## infinitesymphony

I think I've seen a Kernel Streaming plug-in for Winamp somewhere. "Bit-perfect output" only applies when you're using the card's digital output (ex. sending audio to an external DAC). This thread is about getting the best analog output from the AV-710. For digital output, you're better off flashing the card with the Prodigy drivers, which is discussed in several other threads.


----------



## el_matt0

oh ok thanks thats helpful because i am in fact using the digi out to my zhaolu dac.


----------



## Anthrox

Should all other sound be outputted to 7/8 (black jack) as well? It seemed to work the first time I did it but then I had some hardware compatability issues with my wireless card and now I managed to get everything working again but only foobar seems to come out of 7/8 now. The weird part is it does it whether it's using kernel streaming or direct sound (which is what my other programs should be using). Even when I set it to Hi Sample Rate foobar comes out of 7/8 and everything else comes out of 1/2 and even if I try to map sound in Media Player Classic to the rear speakers nothing comes out of 7/8.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Make sure you're using the 4.73b drivers. All sound should be coming out of the Alt. Out. (black jack), both KS and otherwise.


----------



## Anthrox

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Make sure you're using the 4.73b drivers. All sound should be coming out of the Alt. Out. (black jack), both KS and otherwise._

 

Weird. I did install with 4.73b and it wasn't working but I "updated" the drivers with 4.73b and now it works. Now I have a new problem. Any time after direct sound is used, the last sound played will continue to repeat over and over and kernel streaming can't be used. If I try to use kernel streaming in foobar I get the following error:

 Unrecoverable playback error: KS output error: error opening device


----------



## Joshatdot

I am using 5.00b drivers, Normal 2ch out and your settings, KS in foobar works fine


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joshatdot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am using 5.00b drivers, Normal 2ch out and your settings, KS in foobar works fine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Are you using Windows XP? You're getting 44.1kHz KS audio from the Wolfson DAC (black Alt. Out. jack)?


----------



## Joshatdot

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joshatdot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am using 5.00b drivers, Normal 2ch out and your settings, KS in foobar works fine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you using Windows XP? You're getting 44.1kHz KS audio from the Wolfson DAC (black Alt. Out. jack)?_

 

DOH!!! I knew it was to easy w/5.00b drivers! I thought I was plugged into the HQ Alt Out..but I wasn't.


----------



## pengoo

Hi guys, small problem.
 I followed this guide and am using foobar2000 with kernel streaming. However, all i can hear is white noise. Could it be to do with me installing 5.00 drivers first, uninstalling them, then installing the 4.73 ones? I've tried reinstalling and updating several times, no luck.
 Also, on my av-710, the jack directly above the S/PDIF is labelled "back surr", rather than "alt. out", although it is labelled as "alt. out" in the manual...
 And just to check, what position should the jumpers be in?
 Cheers for any help...
 pengoo


----------



## Brewmaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pengoo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys, small problem.
 I followed this guide and am using foobar2000 with kernel streaming. However, all i can hear is white noise. Could it be to do with me installing 5.00 drivers first, uninstalling them, then installing the 4.73 ones? I've tried reinstalling and updating several times, no luck.
 Also, on my av-710, the jack directly above the S/PDIF is labelled "back surr", rather than "alt. out", although it is labelled as "alt. out" in the manual...
 And just to check, what position should the jumpers be in?
 Cheers for any help...
 pengoo_

 

I think I'm in the same boat. I have bitperfect through S/PDIF, but the Wolfson DAC is being resampled. Is it actually possible to get an output that is not resampled through the Wolfson DAC?


----------



## Brewmaster

Based on the information on other sites sounds like the analog outs will always be resampled. Only the digital out is bitperfect.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Brewmaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Based on the information on other sites sounds like the analog outs will always be resampled. Only the digital out is bitperfect._

 

The whole idea of this thread is to avoid the resampling process. What does "bit-perfect" mean in the context of analog sound, anyway? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pengoo* 
_I followed this guide and am using foobar2000 with kernel streaming. However, all i can hear is white noise. And just to check, what position should the jumpers be in?_

 

Are you using Windows XP, and are you sure that you're plugged into the proper output? Hopefully this doesn't turn into a revision issue.

 The jumpers should work in the stock positions. I've read about the jumper mod, but have heard conflicting reports about whether it actually improved the sound quality, so I haven't tried it.





 Note that while there are two black jacks, you want the one next to the TOSlink output (#8 - far bottom in this picture).

 You've said that your AV-710 uses that jack as Back Surround... Is there another jack that's labeled "Alt. Out"? If so, could you take a photo and post it?


----------



## Joni_78

Have I understood this correctly, these bit-perfect cards only work if an application has an option to switch to kernel streaming or Asio? If so is there any other way to get bit-perfrect audio into my receiver from Windows Media Center or am I out of luck?


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joni_78* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have I understood this correctly, these bit-perfect cards only work if an application has an option to switch to kernel streaming or Asio? If so is there any other way to get bit-perfrect audio into my receiver from Windows Media Center or am I out of luck?_

 

"Bit-perfect" is just a term that means "does not resample or mess with the signal." Usually it refers to techniques that circumvent the internal mixing in Windows. If you're asking if you need to use KS or ASIO to get audio to the receiver, the answer is no. All sound, including programs, applications, and sound effects should be digitally transferred to the receiver.

 If you're truly concerned about the AV-710's digital output, it might be best to flash the card to other firmware (ex. Prodigy firmware) in order to use better drivers, which is discussed in several other threads.


----------



## Joni_78

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_"Bit-perfect" is just a term that means "does not resample or mess with the signal." Usually it refers to techniques that circumvent the internal mixing in Windows. If you're asking if you need to use KS or ASIO to get audio to the receiver, the answer is no. All sound, including programs, applications, and sound effects should be digitally transferred to the receiver.

 If you're truly concerned about the AV-710's digital output, it might be best to flash the card to other firmware (ex. Prodigy firmware) in order to use better drivers, which is discussed in several other threads._

 

I would like to get ability to play dts-wav files with Vista Media Center without kmixer touching those. (HD -> SPDIF->Yamaha RX-V659). But is that possible?


----------



## infinitesymphony

I'm not sure about that... I don't use the digital output, so I suppose that's a question for a different thread. Good question, though.


----------



## pengoo

Yup, using XP. 
 This is exactly how all the jacks are labelled on the backplate of my av-710 (going down from top to bottom):
 Pink - "MIC IN"
 Blue - "LINE IN"
 Green - "LINE OUT"
 Black - "SURR OUT"
 Yellow - "Cen/Bass"
 Black - "Back Surr" <--- plugged into this one
 S/PDIF Socket - "SPDIFTX"

 So yeah, there isn't one labelled "Alt. Out", although the "Back Surr" is indeed labelled "Alt. Out" in the manual. I'll try to get a photo of the backplate. 
 I bought this soundcard used off ebay UK, since i'm in the UK and it doesn't seem you can get it easy in europe. Was going to try to get somebody in the USA to buy it new off newegg and ship it to me... but would've taken longer to get, and shipping costs become an issue. Could this be because it's a slightly different version for different region? Out of interest, I'll ask where the seller bought it from.

 Googling "av-710 back surr" finds me http://secure.ncix.com/forumpost/ind...er=1&subpage=1 where it says  Quote:


 If your sound is now coming over the jack labelled "rear surr" as explained above you know you're using the correct DAC 
 

 That guide does a load of other things differently, and i'm following your guide, its just an example of other people not having the second black socket labelled "alt. out".

 I've also noticed that your guide mentions "2CH" and "2CH Hi-Sample Rate", but these are labelled as "2" and "Hi Sample Rate Digital Out" respectively for me.
 Additionally, for me in Audio Deck, clicking on the "2" channel option, causes the sample rate on the right to change to 48. When i set this up, i clicked "2", selected S/PDIF Out Enable and PCM Only then changed the sample rate to Auto. It's just a bit strange that it changes to 48 if i click on it, even though it's already selected and is on Auto.
 Pic of what my Audio Deck looks like - http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/7...iodeck1ht4.jpg


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pengoo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Googling "av-710 back surr" finds me http://secure.ncix.com/forumpost/ind...er=1&subpage=1 where it says That guide does a load of other things differently, and i'm following your guide, its just an example of other people not having the second black socket labelled "alt. out"._

 

That guide isn't much of a guide... Basically, it's teaching people how to use the Wolfson DAC instead of the normal front-channel VIA DAC. I guess that was written back when fewer people knew that the AV-710 had a better DAC that could be used for the front channels. Using that guide, you'd be forced to resample to 96,000 Hz in Foobar.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pengoo* 
_I've also noticed that your guide mentions "2CH" and "2CH Hi-Sample Rate", but these are labelled as "2" and "Hi Sample Rate Digital Out" respectively for me._

 

Well... I wrote the guide when I didn't have the Audio Deck within view, so don't take those names too literally. As long as you have the 4.73b drivers hosted on VIA Arena, you should be fine.

 And yes, the Audio Deck is finicky. Once it's set to Auto, it shouldn't require any adjustment. I'm really not sure why you're experiencing static with that setup. Do you experience static if it's set to Hi Sample Rate / Digital Out? Disable KS or use Windows Media Player to check (otherwise, you'll need to enable a resampler in Foobar to upsample to 96kHz).


----------



## pengoo

Yes, im using the 4.73b drivers.
 I switched Audio Deck from "2" onto "Hi Sample Rate Digital Out" and then tried "KS : Envy24 Family Audio (WDM)" as foobar output with resampler DSP enabled and set to 96000Hz. Still only got white noise. Same story with using "DS : Envy24 Family Audio (WDM)" with no resampler DSP enabled. All I get is white noise from this socket it seems :/


----------



## Brewmaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pengoo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, im using the 4.73b drivers.
 I switched Audio Deck from "2" onto "Hi Sample Rate Digital Out" and then tried "KS : Envy24 Family Audio (WDM)" as foobar output with resampler DSP enabled and set to 96000Hz. Still only got white noise. Same story with using "DS : Envy24 Family Audio (WDM)" with no resampler DSP enabled. All I get is white noise from this socket it seems :/_

 

With the original setup as described I also get white noise for the analog output when playing DTS encoded wave files. The optical output is sending out a "non-resampled" signal at the same time.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Brewmaster* 
_With the original setup as described I also get white noise for the analog output when playing DTS encoded wave files._

 

What are you using to decode DTS? If you don't have a decoder (ex. optical output -> DTS-capable receiver), it'll just sound like static. The "DTS test" is only valid and applicable for a sound card's digital output.

 pengoo and Brewmaster, do you both have cards where the spot normally labeled "Alt. Out" is labeled "Back Surr"?

 Here's a test... With Hi-Sample rate enabled (just to be sure that the Wolfson DAC is being used) and music playing, try plugging into each of the jacks. Maybe this is a newer or different revision of the card, and the output might be re-routed. If you can open up your computer(s), try looking for a revision number or letter on the card, and also look for the Wolfson DAC itself. In the picture I posted, it's the small black chip directly to the right of output #8.


----------



## Brewmaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What are you using to decode DTS? If you don't have a decoder (ex. optical output -> DTS-capable receiver), it'll just sound like static. The "DTS test" is only valid and applicable for a sound card's digital output.
 ._

 

Doh!!!!

 Seems kind of obvious now that you point that out. Maybe all that beer did kill some brain cells.

 p.s. Thanks for your patience, and this guide in the first place.


----------



## infinitesymphony

You're welcome... The AV-710 is a nice ultra-budget card, but with the low price comes a few disadvantages, one of which is that the card doesn't "just work." It needs some understanding and tweaking to reap the true benefits, both analog and digital.

 Plus, all of these "bit-perfect" tests can be confusing... Everyone wants the best quality from the sound card, but it's not always clear whether they're testing its analog or digital capabilities. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Now we just need to fix pengoo's problem...


----------



## pengoo

Well.

 Top right of the card (left of the green CD-in 4pin connector) says "AV-710 M101 430"

 Chipset -
 "VIA ICEnsemble
 ENVY24 HT-S
 VT1721-0408CD
 2IA0000001"

 Wolfson DAC-
 "WM
 WM8728
 46AVVXV"

 White sticker on the top left of the back of the card says
 "VT1721
 AV-710-0040D
 FRAS2-312038"

 Green warranty sticker on the back says 2005.


 When i put it on "Hi Sample Rate Digital Out" in audio deck, then change foobar to "DS : Envy24 Family Audio (WDM)", i get no sound from my speakers when i plug them in to any of the sockets, apart from the "back surr" one, which just gives static.
 Any bright ideas?


----------



## infinitesymphony

That sounds to me like a possible hardware problem. The next step is to try testing different drivers (ex. 5.00b) to see if you can get the Wolfson DAC output working at all.

 Always remember to restart the computer after uninstalling drivers, and again after installing the new drivers.


----------



## pengoo

Is there not anything I could be doing stupid with foobar or the drivers? I'm using the latest foo_output_ks as a plugin. I have a DFI Lanparty Ultra-D motherboard, so when i bought the AV-710, i first removed the installed karajan 7.1 sound module on the board. Could the old NVidia drivers for that be messing things up somehow? (though they don't seem to be running).
 I'll uninstall 4.73b and install 5.00b. Yes, I've restarted throughout. Gimme a min to put the soundcard back in


----------



## infinitesymphony

You should get output through the Alt. Out ("Back Surr") even when using something without mixer bypassing, for example playing files in plain old Windows Media Player. So, if you're not getting any output at all from any program, something's not right.

 It doesn't sound like a hardware conflict because you're still able to use the regular VIA outputs (right?). But, it couldn't hurt to go into the BIOS and disable the onboard sound if that's an option.


----------



## pengoo

Disabled the on-board sound in the BIOS just now.
 Yeah im still able to use the green "line out" jack fine, (#5 on your pic).
 And no, I don't seem to be able to get any output from the back surr jack, however much I fiddle with settings.


----------



## pengoo

Also noticed that, while red light still comes out of my S/PDIF socket, the "sticky out bit" on the S/PDIF output seems to be missing. In http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggIma...120-103-01.JPG for example, there's a "sticky out bit" on the S/PDIF output. Now i've never used optical out in my life, so I couldn't tell whether this could just be a small card revision, or whether mine has been damaged.
 Any thoughts?
 Anyway, going to bed now. Brain hurts. :/


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pengoo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also noticed that, while red light still comes out of my S/PDIF socket, the "sticky out bit" on the S/PDIF output seems to be missing._

 

That's just the protective cover. The fact that it wasn't included with your card suggests a possibility that the card was opened and/or used before you purchased it. I hope it's not the case, but it sounds like the high quality portion of the card might be broken or otherwise nonfunctional.


----------



## pengoo

Well like i said, i bought it used off ebay since it is virtually impossible to buy the card new in europe. I'll try a reformat sometime, to eliminate the possiblility of other drivers/software interfering. But for now, i'll just use the line out :/


----------



## gozu

Sorry to intrude upon your discussion with my massive ignorance disruption field. I've just bought and installed an AV710 following this board's advice actually and I'm wondering exactly what tweaks would benefit me and how.

 I've moved a couple jumpers and I'm getting audio from the black output next to the toslink.

 I've also replaced the latest drivers with the 4.73 model. I still don't have access to the audiodeck (need to reboot first). but the sound is working.(that also took a reboot).

 I'm not sure how bit-perfect sound is beneficial.

 Isn't upsampling to 96 Khz a good thing?
 It most definitely is 99% of the time in video. Isn't it in audio also?
 Is it only beneficial to people who are plugging the sound into amps or other devices first before getting to the speakers?

 Anyways, I have a set of 2.1 promedia and I listen to lossy music. What is the best setup for me? Thanks!


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gozu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...I'm wondering exactly what tweaks would benefit me and how._

 

There are other threads that would be better suited to your questions... This one is mainly for setting up the card without relatively untested tweaks.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gozu* 
_I've moved a couple jumpers and I'm getting audio from the black output next to the toslink._

 

What was the reason for changing the jumpers? Several people have said that the "jumper mod" does not affect the Wolfson DAC's output--it only affects the VIA output.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gozu* 
_I'm not sure how bit-perfect sound is beneficial.

 Isn't upsampling to 96 Khz a good thing?
 It most definitely is 99% of the time in video. Isn't it in audio also?
 Is it only beneficial to people who are plugging the sound into amps or other devices first before getting to the speakers?_

 

Some people believe that upsampling sounds better, but with a sound card, you'll either be relying on a software upsampling plug-in (as in Foobar) or the algorithms built into VIA's drivers, neither of which is a great implementation of upsampling. I've tried the card both ways and found 44.1 kHz output to sound more neutral and realistic. Also be sure that you aren't confusing upsampling vs. oversampling. Most DACs, including the Wolfson DAC present in the AV-710, automatically oversample.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gozu* 
_Anyways, I have a set of 2.1 promedia and I listen to lossy music. What is the best setup for me? Thanks!_

 

Assuming you want to use the AV-710... Foobar/Winamp/etc. -> Kernel Streaming Plug-in -> 4.73b drivers setup for Auto 44.1/48 kHz playback.


----------



## gozu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are other threads that would be better suited to your questions... This one is mainly for setting up the card without relatively untested tweaks._

 

The one I found that didn't involve replacing capacitors and what have you was very old and potentially out of date. It's the one that advocated moving the jumpers. Here it is: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=75454

  Quote:


 Assuming you want to use the AV-710... Foobar/Winamp/etc. -> Kernel Streaming Plug-in -> 4.73b drivers setup for Auto 44.1/48 kHz playback. 
 

What about other applications that are not ASIO compatible? Media Player Classic and so forth? Do I change the settings for those?


----------



## infinitesymphony

Yes, that's the infamous "jumper mod" thread.

  Quote:


 ...So, find JP3/4. Go over to the right about an inch, to the jumper bank labelled *Front Audio*. Now go down, and you'll see a chip marked U14. Directly below this are the jumpers in question...Now, these results have not been verified, but I thought there was increased bass, for one, and an overall tightening of the sound with this tweak. 
 

As other people have said, this "mod" doesn't affect the Wolfson DAC output, and it's not even confirmed whether or not it's a desirable mod for the front channels. Note that this guy's equipment was limited to a pair of DIY modified Sennheiser HD-280s running out of a DIY CMoy amplifier described as "crappy." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gozu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What about other applications that are not ASIO compatible? Media Player Classic and so forth? Do I change the settings for those?_

 

There are no settings that you can change to bypass the mixer in the same way that KS and ASIO do, besides looking for plug-ins for the particular program. Bypassing the mixer with KS or ASIO is ideal, but just using DirectSound isn't so much worse (depending on your equipment and ability to hear differences). With a 2.1 computer speaker system, the difference probably won't be huge.

 Basically, use audio programs for audio; there's no need to worry about specialized routing for everything else.


----------



## ru9

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's my guide for Windows XP. This is if you're interested in getting true 44.1 kHz audio from the Wolfson DAC rather than using inferior and processor-intensive software resampling algorithms to upsample._

 

This works with a good result. I agree, the resulting sound is neutral. This is now my preferred setting for the AV-710.

 Thank you.

 Louie


----------



## gozu

I've installed the 4.73b drivers but now I have no audio. The drivers installed successfully and the sound deck is operational. The sound files play but no audio reaches my speakers.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Are you sure you're plugged into the right output? Try switching to Hi-Sample rate--this is the Wolfson DAC's normal operating mode, so if this doesn't work, something isn't properly setup.

 Until you have sound working, use Windows Media Player for your tests. This will eliminate possible KS/ASIO confusion.

 Also note that with the "S/PDIF output trick" as listed on the first page, the volume meters in the Audio Deck will no longer display actual volume output.


----------



## gozu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you sure you're plugged into the right output? Try switching to Hi-Sample rate--this is the Wolfson DAC's normal operating mode, so if this doesn't work, something isn't properly setup.

 Until you have sound working, use Windows Media Player for your tests. This will eliminate possible KS/ASIO confusion.

 Also note that with the "S/PDIF output trick" as listed on the first page, the volume meters in the Audio Deck will no longer display actual volume output._

 

I haven't reinstalled ASIO4ALL or foobar yet (I did a system restore to get rid of the 5.00b drivers earlier). As it turns out, my onboard soundcard was re-enabled and made default instead of the chaintek. The sound is working fine now.

 I noticed that ASIO will only work for my envy if I'm not in Hi-sample mode. I assume I should leave all settings as they are
 buffer size: 512, latency: 32 sample, no hardware buffer and Always resample 44.1 <-> 48 KHz.

 I picked ASIO in foobar, not KS for envy24. Does everything look ok? 

 Now, I just have to figure out a way to make Foobar's interface less horrible. I wonder who figured it was a good idea NOT to have a volume slider anywhere in sight (i found it under a couple menu layers..). I'll start looking for skins.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Glad that it's working! I have System Restore disabled for that very reason--who knows what settings were different at the last restore point? I figure it's better to manually remove the drivers.

 You shouldn't need ASIO4ALL... Foobar's KS plug-in should work without the need for external software. Also, you don't want any resampling. I'm guessing that ASIO4ALL isn't working in Hi-Sample Rate mode (which you don't want anyway) because it would require you to resample Foobar's output to 96 kHz.

 The volume slider in Foobar is in the lower-right corner (default: 0.00 dB). For proper gain staging, it should be left at 0 dB... Just adjust the volume with your speakers.


----------



## gozu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Glad that it's working! I have System Restore disabled for that very reason--who knows what settings were different at the last restore point? I figure it's better to manually remove the drivers.

 You shouldn't need ASIO4ALL... Foobar's KS plug-in should work without the need for external software. Also, you don't want any resampling. I'm guessing that ASIO4ALL isn't working in Hi-Sample Rate mode (which you don't want anyway) because it would require you to resample Foobar's output to 96 kHz.

 The volume slider in Foobar is in the lower-right corner (default: 0.00 dB). For proper gain staging, it should be left at 0 dB... Just adjust the volume with your speakers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Using the KS option for Envy24 in foobar gives me the error: "Unrecoverable playback error: KS output error: error opening device"

 I installed the dark panel config which comes with a volume slider. I'm not sure how to set it to 0 dB though.

 My audiodeck is set to 2 speakers (non hi sample). Any ideas?


----------



## infinitesymphony

That error usually indicates a sample rate issue. If you have the card setup according to the guide, you'll need to make sure that nothing is resampling the signal... If the resampler plug-in in Foobar is active, you'll need to remove it.

 Just to double-check... Are your speakers plugged into the black Alt. Out. / "Back Surr." jack (not the green line out jack)?

 Edit: Cool Foobar skin... 0 dB is at maximum volume (all the way up)--just think of 0 dB as "full scale," as in full output.


----------



## hijodeltiger

infinitesymphony, with this setup, there's no 96KHz support, is there?
 I ask because when I tried playing some vinyl rips at 24bit-96KHz they would give me the error message. I could only play them with DS as output.
 Or did I do something wrong along the way?
 Either way, thanks for this excellent setup thread.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hijodeltiger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_infinitesymphony, with this setup, there's no 96KHz support, is there?_

 

That's correct... But, all you have to do is click the Hi-Sample Rate button in the Audio Deck and you'll have 96/192 kHz selectable sample rates. Getting high-res support out of the card is easy--getting 44.1/48 kHz audio out of the card is the tricky part.


----------



## legend_jo

I just recently bought this card, and i can only get the front 2 channels to come through the SPDIF optical out. The other channels, rears and center, come through the analog outputs. Does this card not support 5.1 through the SPDIF optical out?

 I got one of the cards that doesn't have a labeld "ALT OUT", like the previous posts. Also my card has a front panel connecter, along with the other jumpers. I've not touched the jumpers. I've gotten everything to work except 5.1 through SPDIF optical out


----------



## infinitesymphony

I've never used the digital output feature of the card, so that's beyond my knowledge. Do you have it set up for multi-channel in the Audio Deck? Keep in mind that my guide is for stereo analog output, not multi-channel digital output.

 Here's what one person on another forum had to say: "It's funny how everyone thinks hooking up optical/digital provides 5.1 channels through one cable for everything, even though it's only the case for pass-through streams from videos, and not games." Also, "...their optical output only encodes 2 channels (L/R) into an optical signal, and can pass-through 5.1 AC3 format signals."

 You might consider flashing to Prodigy firmware, which is discussed in several other threads. Apparently the Prodigy drivers are much better for digital output, though they will disable the card's analog outputs.

 Could you post a picture of the back of your card? Perhaps Chaintech has issued a revision. If so, I'll make an addition to the first post.


----------



## Brewmaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *legend_jo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just recently bought this card, and i can only get the front 2 channels to come through the SPDIF optical out. The other channels, rears and center, come through the analog outputs. Does this card not support 5.1 through the SPDIF optical out?

 I got one of the cards that doesn't have a labeld "ALT OUT", like the previous posts. Also my card has a front panel connecter, along with the other jumpers. I've not touched the jumpers. I've gotten everything to work except 5.1 through SPDIF optical out
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The card can output 5.1 throught both Dolby Digital and DTS via the SPDIF out.


----------



## legend_jo

Yeah, i just figured it out. The audio test in the driver software does not completely go through SPDIF , that's what was throwing me off. The test only sent the front two channels through SPDIF optical out
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . I ran a DVD movie with POWERdvd and was able to get full 5.1 the SPDIF optical out...so i guess it needs the proper software to run 5.1? Not obvious enough for me, and just a little too late. I already ordered a replacement card
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thnx anyways...


----------



## allioxyzzy

I finally tracked down a second hand AV-710 but now I'm wondering if I got sold a dud. With any version of the drivers installed I get absolutely nothing out of headphones plugged directly into any of the jacks. I just now tried plugging a pair of crappy $10 speakers into the green jack and with every available volume knob and bar maxed, I can just hear the music if I put my ear right up to the speaker.

 Does this card just need really really beefy amplification from every single jack or should I be complaining? I don't mind buying a Cmoy or something but I'd rather not if it's not going to fix my problem.

 For some reason the only non-budget sound cards sold new in New Zealand are Creative ones. I've been resisting getting one for about five years but this may just be enough to make me pick up an X-fi


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *allioxyzzy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does this card just need really really beefy amplification from every single jack or should I be complaining? I don't mind buying a Cmoy or something but I'd rather not if it's not going to fix my problem._

 

It sounds like a dud. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Which driver version are you using, and with which OS?

 A few things to test: try switching to regular 2 Channel and plug into the green front-speaker output. Then, try switching to 2 Channel Hi-Sample rate output and plug into the black Alt. Out. jack.

 Some people use their AV-710s with headphones without a headphone amp, so preamp volume shouldn't be an issue. You should definitely be hearing sound, both with computer speakers and headphones.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *allioxyzzy* 
_For some reason the only non-budget sound cards sold new in New Zealand are Creative ones. I've been resisting getting one for about five years but this may just be enough to make me pick up an X-fi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Most of the X-Fi series has the CS4382 DAC. As long as you get one with that DAC or better, it should sound great.


----------



## allioxyzzy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It sounds like a dud. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Which driver version are you using, and with which OS?_

 

I tried 1.3a, 4.73b and 5.20a, all with the same results, in XP.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A few things to test: try switching to regular 2 Channel and plug into the green front-speaker output. Then, try switching to 2 Channel Hi-Sample rate output and plug into the black Alt. Out. jack._

 

Absolutely nothing out of the alt. out jack no matter what I do.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Most of the X-Fi series has the CS4382 DAC. As long as you get one with that DAC or better, it should sound great. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I guess that's a plan then. Cheers! At least the AV-710 was cheap


----------



## allioxyzzy

Well, it's not a dud. The seller just replied and pointed out that the card was jumpered to line-out mode, which I assume disables the onboard amps. I moved jumper 3 and 4 to 2-3 instead of 1-2 and now all is well in the world, even from the rear jack directly to headphones.

 Of course I had to have ordered an X-fi yesterday 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but maybe my plight will help somebody else.

 Edit: oh my god, the sound just cut out from the rear jack and is now playing in slow motion from the regular line out. What the hell is with this card! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm going to stick it in my Linux box to see if it behaves better...

 Edit edit: stupid driver issue, all fixed.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *allioxyzzy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the sound just cut out from the rear jack and is now playing in slow motion from the regular line out._

 

That sounds like a sample rate issue. It's probably (hopefully) software-related: either the drivers you're using, conflicts with old drivers, or the media player.


----------



## allioxyzzy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That sounds like a sample rate issue. It's probably (hopefully) software-related: either the drivers you're using, conflicts with old drivers, or the media player._

 

I think you're right; I used drivercleaner to wipe all the remnants and did a clean install of 3.24c (5.20a's installer is incredibly buggy for me) and it seems to be fixed. I gotta say, the difference in sound quality from a cheap cmedia card is incredibly noticeable and I'm only using HD 485s - not really renowned for their attention to detail 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The bass is even less boomy and bloated, miraculously - I had no idea the sound card was contributing to that.

 Thanks for your help on all this.

 While I'm answering questions that I couldn't find answers to before getting the card - yes, you can output from the rear jack directly to headphones (at least reasonably low impedence ones) plenty loud


----------



## Applebean

Question:

 "Plug your amplification device (ex. speakers, receiver, etc.) into the black Alt. Out. jack on the back of the card."

 I don't have an amp, but I do have a pair of speakers that have a headphone jack on the front (Logitech X-230s). If I do this trick to use the Wolfson DAC, plug my speakers into the black jack and my headphones into the speakers' headphone jack, will I get better sound than just plugging my headphones straight into the green, non-Wolfson jack?


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Applebean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't have an amp, but I do have a pair of speakers that have a headphone jack on the front (Logitech X-230s). If I do this trick to use the Wolfson DAC, plug my speakers into the black jack and my headphones into the speakers' headphone jack, will I get better sound than just plugging my headphones straight into the green, non-Wolfson jack?_

 

Difficult to say. I found the output of the X-230s' headphone jack to be pretty awful, since it offers only passive electronics with no internal amplification. It might detract from sound quality. However, I don't think that the Wolfson and VIA sections (green and black outputs) can be enabled at the same time. You'll have to switch between them in software, which in my experience has been buggy--it required a reboot to switch between the two or else the output sounded like it had weird distortion or phase issues.


----------



## basmatirice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's my guide for Windows XP. This is if you're interested in getting true 44.1 kHz audio from the Wolfson DAC rather than using inferior and processor-intensive software resampling algorithms to upsample.

 1. Install the card into a free PCI slot on the motherboard.
 2. Plug your amplification device (ex. speakers, receiver, etc.) into the black Alt. Out. jack on the back of the card.
 3. Download and install the Envy 24 Family Driver version 4.73b linked here. This version is the last one to support the following trick.
 4. Once the drivers are installed, open up the Envy control panel using its tray icon on the taskbar.
 5. Click 2CH if it's not already selected (not 2CH Hi-Sample Rate).
 6. Go into the digital output section and enable S/PDIF output, selecting PCM as the sub-option. Click the Auto button under sampling rate.

 Done! You'll now be capable of using Kernel Streaming in Foobar to directly send 44.1 kHz and 48 kHz audio content through your sound card's Wolfson DAC._

 


 for number 3... what exactly am i supposed to click on to make this work? there are a ton of files to unzip and do things with... which one do i load?


----------



## basmatirice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's my guide for Windows XP. This is if you're interested in getting true 44.1 kHz audio from the Wolfson DAC rather than using inferior and processor-intensive software resampling algorithms to upsample.

 1. Install the card into a free PCI slot on the motherboard.
 2. Plug your amplification device (ex. speakers, receiver, etc.) into the black Alt. Out. jack on the back of the card.
 3. Download and install the Envy 24 Family Driver version 4.73b linked here. This version is the last one to support the following trick.
 4. Once the drivers are installed, open up the Envy control panel using its tray icon on the taskbar.
 5. Click 2CH if it's not already selected (not 2CH Hi-Sample Rate).
 6. Go into the digital output section and enable S/PDIF output, selecting PCM as the sub-option. Click the Auto button under sampling rate.

 Done! You'll now be capable of using Kernel Streaming in Foobar to directly send 44.1 kHz and 48 kHz audio content through your sound card's Wolfson DAC._

 


 um... which file is it? there are a ton.


----------



## error401

Just wondering if anyone's discovered a driver that behaves more nicely with KS when Windows tries to grab the soundcard to play audio from some other program. Currently it works great with KS, but as soon as something tries to play sound (eg. MSN), the KS output gets cut off and the other sound plays. I don't want to just disable all the sounds, is there a way to get this card to behave like every other card I've done this with (ie. ignore additional input until the KS stream ends)?


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *basmatirice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_um... which file is it? there are a ton._

 

Unzip the files and run Setup.exe (Application) located in the Setup directory. This is pretty standard procedure for installing drivers, so I left the specifics out of the guide.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Edit: Revision information moved to the first post.


----------



## Metaphysical

what about playing 96khz audio files? wouldn't they sound better with the card in high sample rate mode, technically?


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Metaphysical* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what about playing 96khz audio files? wouldn't they sound better with the card in high sample rate mode, technically?_

 

Yes... The majority of users don't have audio files above 48 kHz, which is why the regular output is recommended, but if you do have recordings at those higher rates or you like to watch a lot of DVDs, flip the setting over to the high sample rate mode.


----------



## sugarinthegourd

When I try to use ASIO4All with the AV-710 set up as per this guide (and I thik with other settings as well) this is what I get:






 Any ideas on why Envy24 is showing up as unavailable? Does it matter if I select AC97 instead?

 Am I displaying my ignorance re: sound cards, chipsets, codecs? I'm afraid I probably am!

 Thanks in advance for any insights...


----------



## el_matt0

you need asio4all to run an av710?


----------



## McNubbins

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *el_matt0* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you need asio4all to run an av710?_

 

No, but it sure helps if you want to run ASIO with an AV710. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 EDIT: This post did not help anyone, and makes me sound like a jackass. I apologize.
 All I really wanted to express is that I find ASIO4all to be a very useful tool for setting up ASIO in Foobar2000. It's kind of buggy sometimes, yes, but it makes my music sound better. And that's what I like.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sugarinthegourd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any ideas on why Envy24 is showing up as unavailable? Does it matter if I select AC97 instead?_

 

I don't use ASIO4ALL because it has been buggy in my experience, so I can't be sure. Yes, it does matter if you select AC97 because that's your onboard sound. This issue might be corrected by disabling the onboard sound in the BIOS (accessible by hitting either F1 or Delete when the computer is first booted).


----------



## event

so that was odd... I followed the instructions and there were two things I found peculiar:

 ONE: No sound from the rear surround jack, I had to use the green line out jack.

 TWO: I unplugged the headphones during playback and my system crashed. It wont boot up while the headphones are plugged into the line-out jack. It crashes when I plug them into the line-out jack. I assume this is bad. What's the deal here? Is the card fried or something?


----------



## lim(x->0)

1) Is there an advantage in using, 2CH Hi-Sample Rate >> KS >> 96k Hz, over the setup posted originally in the guide or is the setup in the original guide better?


 2) Which setup would be the best?

 foobar >> 96 kHz resampler >> KERNEL stream >> av710 >> 2CH Hi-Sample Rate >> black jack next to optical out
 or
 foobar >> 96 kHz resampler >> DIRECT stream >> av710 >> 2CH Hi-Sample Rate >> black jack next to optical out
 or 
 the config posted by infinitessymphony in the guide:
 foobar >> 48 kHz resampler >> KERNEL stream >> av710 >> 2CH >> black jack next to optical out

 3) Should I be using the foobar equalizer or just leave it flat?


----------



## sugarinthegourd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lim(x->0)* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1) 
 2) Which setup would be the best?

 av710 >> black jack next to optical out >> 2CH Hi-Sample Rate >> foobar >> KERNEL stream >> 96k Hz_

 

Your ordering of processes is a bit mixed up, I think. Don't you mean something more like:

 foobar >> 96 kHz resampler >> KERNEL stream >> av710 >> 2CH Hi-Sample Rate >> black jack next to optical out


----------



## lim(x->0)

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sugarinthegourd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your ordering of processes is a bit mixed up, I think. Don't you mean something more like:

 foobar >> 96 kHz resampler >> KERNEL stream >> av710 >> 2CH Hi-Sample Rate >> black jack next to optical out_

 

fixed it for consistency but I am still looking for an answer


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *event* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ONE: No sound from the rear surround jack, I had to use the green line out jack._

 

If sound is coming from the green jack, the card isn't setup right--the output is going through the VIA DACs and not the Wolfson. Give it another try... Also, you may want to try re-seating the card in its slot; your second issue sounds like a connection problem.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lim(x->0)* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1) Is there an advantage in using, 2CH Hi-Sample Rate >> KS >> 96k Hz, over the setup posted originally in the guide or is the setup in the original guide better?

 2) Which setup would be the best?

 foobar >> 96 kHz resampler >> KERNEL stream >> av710 >> 2CH Hi-Sample Rate >> black jack next to optical out
 or
 foobar >> 96 kHz resampler >> DIRECT stream >> av710 >> 2CH Hi-Sample Rate >> black jack next to optical out
 or 
 the config posted by infinitessymphony in the guide:
 foobar >> 48 kHz resampler >> KERNEL stream >> av710 >> 2CH >> black jack next to optical out

 3) Should I be using the foobar equalizer or just leave it flat?_

 

1. No, there's no advantage. Software resamplers aren't anywhere near perfect, and I found that the sound quality was better without them.

 2. IMO, the third choice, except that the guide does not say to resample. The idea is _not_ to resample.

 3. Ideally, it's best to go without EQ, but if you like what it does to the sound, go ahead and use it--just remember to click "Auto Level" when you're done making changes.


----------



## MikoLayer

I use KS in fb2k. IIRC, asio4all isnt really bit-perfect (no, I dont care enough to argue about it) and i know KS works like a charm so why bother.

 Just wanted to chime in to report that the nasty channel imbalance error that plagued me in the past two driver updates were eliminated with the latest driver set (forgot which ver). Couldnt be happier!


----------



## some1x

I'm really surprised. The setup recommended in this guide sounds MUCH better than my previous setup.

 Previous: AV710 with Prodigy7.1 firmware and drivers (native ASIO support), Foobar with ASIO

 Current: AV710 with stock firmware and drivers, Foobar with KS @ 44.1


----------



## lim(x->0)

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_2. IMO, the third choice, except that the guide does not say to resample. The idea is not to resample._

 

I got the resampling tid bit from this setup guide which is also on the first page of this subforum along with this one.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=248641


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lim(x->0)* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got the resampling tid bit from this setup guide which is also on the first page of this subforum along with this one.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=248641_

 

Ah, I see... I suggested that the author change that part of the guide (see Post #15 on that thread) because it's misleading. It's actually a _bad_ idea to resample to 48 kHz unless the sound card does not natively support anything but that rate (ex. Sound Blaster Audigy, Live!, onboard AC'97 audio, etc.).

 The AV-710 natively supports streaming at 44.1 kHz, 48 kHz, 96 kHz, and 192 kHz, so you shouldn't need to resample.


----------



## bilboda

Hi, I registered just to thank you for this free upgrade. I had previously used upsampling and the wolfson outs into an Accuphase E-202 and DCM Timewindows 3.
 Wow, what a difference. Much improved resolution. And it worked the first time!
 I might add that with the previous drivers and using a reciever with optical input I had bit perfect thru optical without using kernel streaming in Foobar. 
 Using the cpl I would select 44.1 khz output and when playing back in Foobar the cpl would always report 44.1 khz as the current ouput. Of course, I'm assuming that what actually left the pc and arrived at the amp was what the cpl reported.
 It never sounded this good, though.
 So, after reading thru the thread, I see you like the EMU products. Would a 0202 usb be much of an upgrade, iyho?


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bilboda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, after reading thru the thread, I see you like the EMU products. Would a 0202 usb be much of an upgrade, iyho?_

 

I've only heard the 1212M, which has clear upper-midrange detail and great resolution; according to what I've read and heard, this is the "Cirrus sound." The 0202 USB has a lower-tier Cirrus DAC, the CS4392 (as compared to the 1212M/1616M's CS4398, their current top-of-the-line DAC), so I imagine it retains some of the Cirrus house sound. It also has an amplified headphone jack, which is better than not having one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Though I never listened to the AV-710 on a great system, it sounded like a fairly neutral card after disabling upsampling. It was decent, but not _great_ at deciphering any particular frequency range. If you like the sound of the Wolfson DAC, you may find the AKM DACs to sound more like a direct upgrade (ex. 0404 USB's AKM AK4396), or you could move to a more analytical sound with a Cirrus DAC. Of course, the quality of a DAC's implementation is critical--I'm oversimplifying.

 So, whether or not it would be an upgrade ultimately depends on your preferences for sound signature and music. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, welcome to Head-Fi!


----------



## el_matt0

if i already have an external zhaolu dac, is the best course of action for me with my AV710 to still use the wolfson dac onboard and run that into my zhaolu, or would flashing the card to prodigy drivers (which im having trouble doing) and running it "bit-perfect" to my zhaolu be a more solid option?


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *el_matt0* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_if i already have an external zhaolu dac, is the best course of action for me with my AV710 to still use the wolfson dac onboard and run that into my zhaolu, or would flashing the card to prodigy drivers (which im having trouble doing) and running it "bit-perfect" to my zhaolu be a more solid option?_

 

You want the best optical output capability, which will be found by flashing to the Prodigy drivers. Otherwise, what's the point of having the Zhaolu?


----------



## mrmin123

Hello all, I've been having some problems with my AV-710 and I figured that I should ask here, since you guys seem pretty knowledgeable about the card.

 Basically, I've been experiencing pops in audio playback at certain spots in certain songs, and whenever my CPU seems to be under load (this could actually be a bigger problem than I think it to be, since my mouse jumps as well). I've tested the problematic music files on different music players on the same computer (same spot, same pop), and on different computers (same spot, no pop), so I'm pretty certain that this is a hardware issue (maybe driver?).

 I'm using the 4.73b drivers for the AV-710 on a ASUS P5K LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX motherboard. I am also using the onboard sound on the motherboard for my microphone, since I heard before that I can't use the mic using the setup outlined on the opening post (is this still true?).


 I haven't done any extensive testing yet, but I was wondering if anyone else had this problem and knew of a way to remedy it before I jumped into trying a billion different hardware and software configurations. Maybe an idea of what's going on?


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrmin123* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Basically, I've been experiencing pops in audio playback at certain spots in certain songs, and whenever my CPU seems to be under load (this could actually be a bigger problem than I think it to be, since my mouse jumps as well). I've tested the problematic music files on different music players on the same computer (same spot, same pop), and on different computers (same spot, no pop), so I'm pretty certain that this is a hardware issue (maybe driver?)._

 

When you say "under load," what kind of load do you mean--nearing 100%? It could just be the CPU thrashing, but with a LGA 775 motherboard, that doesn't sound too likely. But, if the mouse is also lagging, that indicates a system-wide conflict or issue.

 It could be an issue with the onboard sound. Try disabling it in the BIOS to test. Also, try monitoring the Processes and Performance tabs in the Task Manager to see if any particular process is causing a performance problem.


----------



## mrmin123

Today I tried disabling the onboard sound (didn't change anything) and changing drivers to the most recent VIA ones (didn't change anything either).

 I *was* running Memtest86+ earlier and one of the test gives me 10 errors and freezes the damn thing; could that be the cause of all this? I haven't had the chance to take my RAM out and test it yet, but that's on my to-do list...


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrmin123* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I *was* running Memtest86+ earlier and one of the test gives me 10 errors and freezes the damn thing; could that be the cause of all this? I haven't had the chance to take my RAM out and test it yet, but that's on my to-do list..._

 

Very possible. In February, I built a Core 2 Duo computer around an Asus P5N-E motherboard and the system was _extremely_ unstable. Ultimately, it was a RAM incompatibility that was solved by updating the firmware, only using the yellow RAM slots, setting the RAM timings by hand, and increasing the voltage by a notch. Needless to say, I was not too pleased--this was my first-ever Asus motherboard, and I don't think I'll be a repeat buyer.

 Keep testing settings until you pass Memtest86+ three times without errors, then run Prime95. If there are errors in either, the system needs further setup, IMO.

 Check the Asus sub-forum for your motherboard for a thread about compatibility information with your RAM. If there isn't one and you manage to figure out your problem, make a new post there to help everyone out.


----------



## Seaside

Instable memory always cause problems. Fix that first and see the problem still is there.

 If it still act weird after you fix the memory issue, there must be some sort of interupt conflict between AV-710 and other devices. 

 Go to control pannel - system - device manager, choose view at the top - choose resource, and choose interupt request (IRQ). And see what's the interupt number AV-710 is using. The chance is video card, lan card or mouse uses the same interupt # with AV-710. If this is the case, interupt conflict could happen between those devices and AV-710 when those device are heavily used, thus that can slow down AV-710 significantly. Installing AV-710 at the other PCI slot and reinstalling VIA driver could fix it.

 Oh... Not all, but some onboard sounds, usually using Cmedia chipset, hate share the computer with other sound devices. If it's Cmedia chipset, disable it at the bios.


----------



## royalcrown

Hello,

 Great thread, but I was wondering if you could help me to run either ASIO or Kernel Streaming on Winamp using this soundcard. I just tried both and failed, but have had nightmare experiences with foobar (mainly aesthetic, but also in terms of functionality). I get a "failed to output pin" or some such thing with kernel streaming, and absolutely nothing at all happens with the ASIO plugin. Any help? Thanks in advance.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Did the KS and ASIO components work in Foobar?

 I've heard that some people have experienced problems with the Winamp plug-ins even when everything was correctly setup. A Winamp user will have to help me out.


----------



## Seaside

http://otachan.com/ for plugins for winamp and foobar.

 Via driver version 1.10d, 3.12a or 4.73b for they are known working version with asio. Set it up according to the guide at this thread. Also use asio4all ver 1.8, other versions are not stable with AV-710.

 Install driver and asio4all first.

 For winamp, visit http://otachan.com/out_asio(dll).html. 
 It's japanese site, but you will have no problem locating download link.
 Then unzip it, extract bin/normal/out_asio(dll).dll to plugin directory of winamp folder. Run winamp, go to preferance - plugins - output. Then you will see Asio output is there. Choose it, click OK.
 You will now able to use asio with winamp. Good luck.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Thanks for the help, Seaside. Isn't there a mirror of that file that's not in the 7zip compression format? Seems like I found it at Hydrogen Audio once...

 Edit: Ah, found it in another thread. I can't verify if this is the same version posted on Otachan's site, but it may be worth a try:

out_asio(dll).dll


----------



## royalcrown

Downloaded 4.37b off the Via site, downloaded ASIO4all 1.8 beta 1. Open up ASIO4all, seems to have picked up the device well enough. Go to winamp, using the otachan output (that was the one I'd always tried). Winamp appears to be playing, but no sound comes out. I go back to ASIO and the device, as well as output/input, are unavailable. I guess I fail. I'm really not sure what to do at this point, as it's really kind of annoying me - I hate the fact that foobar looks ugly (and skinning is the biggest pain of all time) and won't minimize to tray, so that kind of shoots it out of the water for me. =/ I guess I might just be stuck with using directsound. Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks for all of your help so far.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Have you done the trick to output 44.1 kHz audio without resampling (enable S/PDIF output with PCM selected)?


----------



## MrKazador

I got it working fine over here. Have you done the "trick" to enable 44.1khz through the "Wolfson DAC Back Surr." output?


----------



## infinitesymphony

That's a little confusing... The trick is _not_ to use the Hi-Sample feature. I think you meant "the trick to use the Wolfson DAC Back Surr. output at 44.1 kHz with regular 2CH."


----------



## Seaside

infinitesymphony.
 Try winrar ver 3.53 or higher to extraxt 7zip files. Trial version will do the job too. I heard about that site and I think the file is legit, but not sure which version of octachan's dll it is.

 MrKazador, wolfson DAC is NOT supposed to work with 2CH setting, but Via drivers is somewhat buggy, and They are too lazy to fix that bug. That enables us use wolfson DAC in 2CH mode. So basically using wolfson DAC a trick that utilize those bugs. Anyway, who cares its bug or not when it is working beautifully?


----------



## royalcrown

Sorry about the delay, I was out of town for the weekend. 

 Yes, I have tried the trick using spdif and pcm; didn't seem to work. One thing I have noticed is that if I output sound through DS and then stop playback and switch output to kernel streaming (3.63) it works well. The only problem is that it's a pain to do everytime winamp boots. I think the KS is legit, because the volume bar doesn't work and the sound card is locked and won't play any other stuff. ASIO gets no love, as it doesn't work no matter what I try. If only I could get KS to work, I'd be fine with that - do you know of any versions known to work with this card?


----------



## andy43

So wait, you DON'T set it to Hi Sample Rate, ever? And can someone tell what the purpose of using Foobar is if you don't use it for resampling? It's being buggy for me and won't let my play itunes sometimes.

 Quoting from this thread:

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aestuo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lastly, check to see if foobar passthrough is working. Play a song in iTunes, then close itunes and open foobar. That song should be queued up in foobar. iTunes settings that invoke the kernel mixer should now no longer work: including the volume bar, equalizer, ect. Use your soundcard's settings instead._

 

My volume bar works in itunes. The master volume bar of my computers volume control also works. Is this normal?


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *andy43* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So wait, you DON'T set it to Hi Sample Rate, ever? And can someone tell what the purpose of using Foobar is if you don't use it for resampling? It's being buggy for me and won't let my play itunes sometimes._

 

Correct, Hi-Sample Rate is not necessary and not recommended unless you want to force resampling. Foobar is popular because it supports a variety of formats and the ASIO and Kernel Streaming plug-ins for it are readily available and good. The iTunes+Foobar workaround is buggy.


----------



## umeng2002

Wow this does work. I'm running the 3.24c because those were the last that offered EAX emulation and it stops the sound stutter problem in Oblivion. (make sure that EAX emulation aka "gaming support" is off for kernel streaming to work)

 I have the card hooked up to my HT reciever via optical, front stereo, and rear channels on the HQ DAC. (Yes, using the rear out on the card sounds better than using my receiver's DAC over optical - Aiwa AV-NW31) 

 I'm using foobar2000 kernel streaming. I set it up like you said. I played a 44.1kHz LPCM DTS track and it decodes perfectly over the optical, so I know kernel streaming is working.

 I only switch my receiver's input mode to use the card's rear HQ output and the I get static because I'm still playing the DTS file (an encoded track through a DAC will make your ears bleed). Anyway, I simply switch tracks and viola!

 I had a feeling something like this would work because every time I keep it on automatic sample rate it would switch to 32kHz when playing MPEG file over the net.


----------



## 1Time

I'd like to know how the jumpers should be set for the following banks of pins on the AV-710 to get true 44.1kHz from the Wolfson DAC. Thanks

 JP3
 JP4
 J7
 Front Audio


----------



## infinitesymphony

The jumpers don't need to be changed from stock; most of the information I've read has said that the jumpers don't affect the Wolfson DAC section.


----------



## MontyPythizzle

Is this possible with the 5.20 drivers, or only with the 4.73s?
 If not can you post a DL link to the 4.73s.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MontyPythizzle* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is this possible with the 5.20 drivers, or only with the 4.73s?
 If not can you post a DL link to the 4.73s._

 

Read the original post.


----------



## MontyPythizzle

NICE, instaled them, and then got BSOD when I played the music.
 Also, the Audio Deck does not install or something 0_o.
 HMM.
 I will try to install them ONE more time.
 Also, it always says unload or uninstall Audio Deck before installing, and I have deleted the folder, tried the uninstall icon under the Start menu to no avail...


----------



## infinitesymphony

If you deleted the folder first, you won't be able to uninstall the proper way from the Add/Remove Programs box. Try reinstalling the other drivers, then uninstall them again.

 Just checking... Are you using Windows XP?

 Also, try disabling your onboard sound in the BIOS if you haven't done so already as it (and its drivers) could cause conflicts with the new sound card.


----------



## MontyPythizzle

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you deleted the folder first, you won't be able to uninstall the proper way from the Add/Remove Programs box. Try reinstalling the other drivers, then uninstall them again.

 Just checking... Are you using Windows XP?

 Also, try disabling your onboard sound in the BIOS if you haven't done so already as it (and its drivers) could cause conflicts with the new sound card._

 

Sound is coming out from the line out, it sounds great (way better than the headphone out), but IDK if it has the correct settings w/o looking at the CP.
 I'll reinstall and then uninstall.


----------



## MontyPythizzle

I did get the KS to work, but none of the CP files went to the folder so I just copied and pasted them there and hopefully it will come up next time when starting Windows.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MontyPythizzle* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...none of the CP files went to the folder so I just copied and pasted them there..._

 

I'm not sure what you mean. You installed, then uninstalled the original drivers properly (by going to Start, Control Panel, Add or Remove Programs), rebooted, then ran the setup for the 4.73b drivers, correct?

 If so, everything should automatically install.


----------



## MontyPythizzle

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not sure what you mean. You installed, then uninstalled the original drivers properly (by going to Start, Control Panel, Add or Remove Programs), rebooted, then ran the setup for the 4.73b drivers, correct?

 If so, everything should automatically install._

 

You would think....
 Yes, very weird...
 I just copied all of the files out of the RAR in the CPANEL folder or w/e and then put them in the audio deck folder :O


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MontyPythizzle* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just copied all of the files out of the RAR in the CPANEL folder or w/e and then put them in the audio deck folder :O_

 

What RAR? All of the drivers are in ZIP files... Copying files to a folder is not the same as installing the drivers.


----------



## MontyPythizzle

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What RAR? All of the drivers are in ZIP files... Copying files to a folder is not the same as installing the drivers._

 

It works as a script and moves the files to each folder and so on.
 Copying the CPL folder to the audio deck folder is the same as if the installer did it.
 Rarlabs.com
 Winzip on steroids.


----------



## infinitesymphony

So... What's your current situation? Can you use Kernel Streaming output in Foobar without resampling?


----------



## MontyPythizzle

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So... What's your current situation? Can you use Kernel Streaming output in Foobar without resampling?_

 

The CP did work after restarting so I guess that was the problem.

 Yes, I can use the KS plug-in on Foobar, and in the CP says it is outputting 44.1 and it sounds flawless, even using a cheap mini-jack to RCA adapter interconnect. 

 I love this new Pioneer receiver, has an 10-band EQ on the front with lights on the sliders 
 Only analog but it sure does sound GREAT.
 5$ at a rummage sale, the problem was A&B speakers were enabled when only one can be on :O Even came with a remote! Just need more room in my room for more stuff


----------



## infinitesymphony

Ah, great, it sounds like everything is working. Nice job on the Pioneer receiver, too. I've owned a ton of Pioneer equipment and none of it has ever failed.


----------



## MontyPythizzle

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, great, it sounds like everything is working. Nice job on the Pioneer receiver, too. I've owned a ton of Pioneer equipment and none of it has ever failed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The headphone output sounds about the same as the speaker output, so that is a bonus, but I have not tried them out with any high-end phones since my HD485s are being RMAd for my fsck up replacing the pads 

 Also, I can now tell a definitive difference in MP3 bitrates, and will probably use this with my computer/phone setup, wish I had some good bookshelfs for a 2.0 system :O

 I also love the motorized remote controlled volume dial that is missing on my 2005 Onkyo receiver!

 The Pioneer even has composite video switching!! (Onkyo has component switching though  which I use extensively)

 I bet this thing was the ultimate for Laserdiscs


----------



## MontyPythizzle

GAH, any different drivers, GAH, this makes me sick, VIA's drivers SUCK.


----------



## infinitesymphony

No, sorry, they're basically the best thing you can get for the AV-710. What did you expect with a foreign $25 card? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What problems are you having with the drivers, anyway?


----------



## MontyPythizzle

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, sorry, they're basically the best thing you can get for the AV-710. What did you expect with a foreign $25 card? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What problems are you having with the drivers, anyway?_

 

Well, finally got all the CP issues squared away, no problems at THIS time.
 GAH, wish VIA would just make some ULTIMATE, feature filled drivers ASAP
 When I got my first AV710 I was looking at some via arena forums and they said something about some kind of 3d effect being x'd out of the CP and such, and then not letting us use the Wolfson DAC with the new drivers, I don't think I will buy a VIA product again, mainly because of their drivers.
 Their mobo chipsets are mostly inferior to nVidia's offerings too


----------



## Flagger

guys i just got 96khz HQ output working in vista 32 bit for my av-710. download these drivers http://onkyo.jp/wavio/download/drive..._for_Vista.zip. they are version 5.20b RC9. 

 once installed open the control panel, goto the playback tab. Then select the Hi sample rate digital out option. It will complain about only outputting via digital which is bollocks. Then select 96khz on the right hand side. Plug in your cable to the rear speaker plug (black one on the card). And voila, wolfson DAC in use! finally, my vista install is now usable


----------



## infinitesymphony

Thanks for the Vista setup info, Flagger. I'd read about the Onkyo drivers as a Vista solution on another forum but there wasn't a consensus about how well they worked.

 I'll add that information to the first post!


----------



## Flagger

sweet, but i heard to get kernel streaming to work in vista on envy24 chipsets you have to set the sample rate to 192khz. im not interested in kernel streaming myself so I have not tested this. just read it here: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/...howtopic=54367


----------



## infinitesymphony

Thanks again. I've added the correction.


----------



## lhsonic

I have my AV-710 flashed to fully support EAX up to 2.0 (I am getting my Audigy 2 just for hardware accel. gaming and EAX support next week). Does this still work with my flashed card? Do I need to use 4.73b drivers instead of my current 5.20b?


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lhsonic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have my AV-710 flashed to fully support EAX up to 2.0 (I am getting my Audigy 2 just for hardware accel. gaming and EAX support next week). Does this still work with my flashed card? Do I need to use 4.73b drivers instead of my current 5.20b?_

 

I've never read about flashing the AV-710 to support EAX, so I'm not sure. You will need the 4.73b drivers to use the trick mentioned in the guide; later drivers have this loophole patched.


----------



## lhsonic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've never read about flashing the AV-710 to support EAX, so I'm not sure. You will need the 4.73b drivers to use the trick mentioned in the guide; later drivers have this loophole patched._

 

Unfortunately, I can't find the article anymore... but it was on viaarena and it involves flashing to your eeprom. Nevertheless, Qsound works and EAX works on my card now.


----------



## MontyPythizzle

I am having a weird issue.
 I used to be able to just hear KS output from Foobar with my speakers.
 I reinstalled the drivers and now I get both KS music out of Foobar and then I get regular audio from system sounds and game sounds now.
 Now the headphone output puts out regular audio and not KS anymore.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MontyPythizzle* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am having a weird issue.
 I used to be able to just hear KS output from Foobar with my speakers.
 I reinstalled the drivers and now I get both KS music out of Foobar and then I get regular audio from system sounds and game sounds now.
 Now the headphone output puts out regular audio and not KS anymore._

 

Maybe you had the Wave channel muted? Hard to say... Everyone should be hearing both Foobar+KS and sound from other applications (games, browser, etc.). The only reason you shouldn't be hearing system sounds is if you disabled them to prevent KS from being interrupted.


----------



## n00bler

5.20b vista drivers on viaarena.com are working just fine in "high quality mode" (96 Khz, analog rear line out) for me in vista x64. After browsing the thread, I'm still not sure what issue other vista users have had aside from getting the drivers and cp to actually install, both of which installed correctly first time I tried. Am I missing something?

By the way infinitesymphony, thank you for the guide!


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *n00bler* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_5.20b vista drivers on viaarena.com are working just fine in "high quality mode" (96 Khz, analog rear line out) for me in vista x64. After browsing the thread, I'm still not sure what issue other vista users have had aside from getting the drivers and cp to actually install, both of which installed correctly first time I tried. Am I missing something?_

 

Maybe not... I don't have any computers with Vista to test. The 5.20b drivers in your link are the same as the XP drivers. If they're working for you, would you be willing to uninstall them and try version 4.73b? Assuming it works, it could result in better sound quality for you and all other Vista users with the AV-710.


----------



## n00bler

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe not... I don't have any computers with Vista to test. The 5.20b drivers in your link are the same as the XP drivers. If they're working for you, would you be willing to uninstall them and try version 4.73b? Assuming it works, it could result in better sound quality for you and all other Vista users with the AV-710. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The 4.73b drivers linked on the first post? They don't have 64-bit drivers, so it failed (driver signing not a problem, I've got it disabled on my compy for rivatuner). I also tried swapping the cp (enmixcpl) with its libraries from 0.0.3.5 in 5.20b to 0.0.2.0 in 4.73b, but the older mixer would just hang when I tried to execute it.

 To clarify what's working for me with via's 5.20b drivers in vista x64, I'm in high quality mode 96khz (can also select 192khz, but mixer wont drop or autodetect to lower sample rates 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) using foobar2000 resampled, 24-bit, with kernel streaming (ds works fine too of course).

 Right now I'm trying to see if I can get asio4all with foobar2000 working with the av-710 ("beyond logic" when I switch to the wolfson dac). I also still need to test digital output when I get my iBasso back. (not going to untangle my onkyo receiver from the spaghetti monster for this)


----------



## infinitesymphony

Ah, I understand. Thanks for the excellent information, n00bler!

 I see that the 5.20b drivers on VIA Arena are designed to work with all current versions of Windows XP and Vista, while the 4.73b drivers only offer support for Windows 95 through Windows XP 32-bit. I'll update the first post to reflect this new information, including a driver specific to the 64-bit version of Windows XP (since it requires one).

 Let us know how well the digital output works with the stock drivers upsampling to 96 kHz.


----------



## n00bler

via, you tease!
 (can't select auto while using wolfson dac)






 5.20b drivers installed, using 0.0.2.8 cp (from 5.10beta1027)


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *n00bler* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_via, you tease!
 (can't select auto while using wolfson dac)_

 

Yep, that functionality is the same in all driver versions, hence the little trick in 4.73b and earlier to get around it using regular 2CH instead of 2CH Hi-Sample Rate. 96 kHz is the minimum sampling rate when Hi-Sample Rate mode is selected. Nice try using an older control panel, though.


----------



## PascalT

question: is trying to upsample to 192khz or 96khz actually increase the quality? I haven't noticed much changes in foobar from 44.1 to 96.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PascalT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_question: is trying to upsample to 192khz or 96khz actually increase the quality?_

 

No... I've found that the sound quality is better without upsampling, which is why the guide recommends circumventing it if possible.


----------



## PascalT

Thought so.. I used 96khz for a while and just now went back to no upsampler, and it sounds slightly clearer.


----------



## PascalT

Should I use 24-bit output in foobar? I am currently using 24bit/44.1khz/KS output


----------



## infinitesymphony

I don't think it matters too much. Since you may encounter 24-bit material, it's best to use 24-bit or higher. Some sound cards might prefer the 32-bit padding, since 32-bit or higher calculations are used by many audio programs. Higher bit-rates also allow you to avoid the use of dither.

 So, in general, I'll recommend 32-bit. You might try some A/B comparisons. I did, and found that I couldn't reliably tell apart 24-bit or 32-bit on my 1212M.


----------



## kikker

Thanks for all the great information in this thread. Ok, in the first post, it's stated that "Note that there is currently no way to prevent resampling to 96 kHz with the AV-710 in Vista." Does this apply only to the analog outputs? 

 I'm only interested in the S/PDIF output and am wondering if I can really get 44.1k out of the digital interface in Vista. FWIW, I cannot get either the ks or the ASIO Winamp plugins (with ASIO4ALL) to get any sound to my receiver. As soon I start to play a file, my receiver displays 'No Data'. This is really driving me nuts. 

 If PCM in Vista is indeed oversampled via SPDIF, this is probably not optimal, is it?


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kikker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, in the first post, it's stated that "Note that there is currently no way to prevent resampling to 96 kHz with the AV-710 in Vista." Does this apply only to the analog outputs?_

 

I'm not sure, but I do know that it's true for the analog output. It might depend on which analog output you have selected (2CH, 2CH Hi-Sample, or one of the multi-channel outputs); maybe 96 kHz is only forced in 2CH Hi-Sample mode.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kikker* 
_If PCM in Vista is indeed oversampled via SPDIF, this is probably not optimal, is it?_

 

No, it's not optimal since software resampling is never perfect, but resampling to 96 kHz may be the only way for you to get information to the receiver. There might be a hack or workaround for easier digital output, just as there was for XP. Some people flashed the AV-710 to use AudioTrak Prodigy 7.1 drivers; doing so disabled the analog outputs, but digital output was much easier to control.

 If resampling to 96 kHz doesn't work, try 192 kHz. Before n00bler commented that the official VIA 5.20b drivers were working in Vista, there was a workaround that used drivers for the Onkyo SE-200PCI sound card, which needed to force a 192 kHz sampling rate.


----------



## kikker

Great, thanks for the info. 

 Does the resampling of this card to 96 kHz in Vista explain why ks does not work via SPDIF?

 What is actually resampling the music? Is that a function of the VIA drivers or something hardware (specific to the card itself). And finally, how was it concluded that nothing below 96 kHz can be put out by the card?

 If anyone knows where I can grab instructions/files for flashing the card, that would be great... Thanks.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kikker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does the resampling of this card to 96 kHz in Vista explain why ks does not work via SPDIF?_

 

It's sort of a complicated issue, because it seems that the way Vista incorporates sound is different from every other OS. KS should work, assuming you use software resampling in your playback program to match the sample rate that the card is set to expect (96 kHz or 192 kHz; see below).

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kikker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is actually resampling the music? Is that a function of the VIA drivers or something hardware (specific to the card itself). And finally, how was it concluded that nothing below 96 kHz can be put out by the card?_

 

The upsampling occurs at the driver (software) level, but only when the drivers see files that need to be upsampled. For example, if the card is set to 2CH Hi-Sample Rate and you play back a typical 44.1 kHz file, it will be upsampled to 96 kHz by the drivers. In general, driver upsampling is pretty bad since it's built for speed, so in this case, it would be better to go with a more intensive software resampler like the ones available for Foobar (SRC, SSRC, PPHS). If the output of the program is what the card wants to see (96 kHz in this case), the drivers won't perform any conversions.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kikker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If anyone knows where I can grab instructions/files for flashing the card, that would be great... Thanks._

 

That solution was only for Windows XP... I haven't heard of similar solutions for Vista yet.


----------



## kikker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That solution was only for Windows XP... I haven't heard of similar solutions for Vista yet._

 

Using the Prodigy drivers in Vista with the flashed Chaintech shouldn't be any different than using them in XP, should it? 

 I'd like to give it a whirl if anyone could please point me to those files. Thanks!


----------



## n00bler

Linky to a audiotrak bios

 Backup your original AV-710 bios first!

 To flash:
 Uninstall whatever sound drivers you have installed, extract the contents of the linked zip file above to a boot floppy/cd/usb drive, shutdown and boot from said media, run eeprwa.exe, reboot, install drivers, you should now have more options in the advanced tab in your cp.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Thanks again, n00bler. I've heard rumblings that this solution has and has not worked in Vista, so I'm eager to hear about your results, kikker.

 The card should flash to a Prodigy without fuss, but you might need to use different drivers. If the regular Prodigy 7.1 drivers don't work, you might try the drivers for other similar cards like the Prodigy 7.1 HiFi.

 Here's a link to the AudioTrak download area.


----------



## santiclaws

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kikker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ FWIW, I cannot get either the ks or the ASIO Winamp plugins (with ASIO4ALL) to get any sound to my receiver._

 

I haven't tried, ks, but ditto on ASIO on Winamp 5.5. Anyone able to get the plugin to work?


----------



## infinitesymphony

Here's a link to a thread specifically about flashing the AV-710 to other firmwares, including the utility and definition files to do it (linked in the first post):

Help Flashing the AV-710 to a Prodigy


----------



## Zimm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *santiclaws* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I haven't tried, ks, but ditto on ASIO on Winamp 5.5. Anyone able to get the plugin to work?_

 

ASIO4ALL works great with foobar2000 and it's ASIO plugin, but no matter how much I tweaked things, Winamp's ASIO doesn't play nice. The majority of the reviews for Winamp's ASIO plugin state that it's broken


----------



## santiclaws

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zimm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ASIO4ALL works great with foobar2000 and it's ASIO plugin, but no matter how much I tweaked things, Winamp's ASIO doesn't play nice. The majority of the reviews for Winamp's ASIO plugin state that it's broken 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The guys in the thread "Thinking about upgrading to Winamp 5.5" say they have no problems with the ASIO plug-in. I'm wondering if the problem is specific to this card?


----------



## ru9

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, I'm glad it's working for you. To my ears, using direct 44.1kHz sounds more neutral than software upsampling, plus it uses up far less CPU cycles. Enjoy!_

 

Yes, working for me too, for months now with ASIO4ALL. Best tweak I tried.

 Just have a question?

 If I play a DTS or 5.1 file using Foobar, will the all the channel be downmixed to the L & R Channels, without any plugin in Foobar.

 Tried channel mixer and 5.1 plugin but they the affect the sound.

 Thanks.

 Louie


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ru9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I play a DTS or 5.1 file using Foobar, will the all the channel be downmixed to the L & R Channels, without any plugin in Foobar._

 

I'm not sure... I don't have any experience playing back multi-channel audio in Foobar, but my guess is that without downmixing, you'll only hear the discrete front left and right channels of the 5.1 mix.


----------



## kikker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks again, n00bler. I've heard rumblings that this solution has and has not worked in Vista, so I'm eager to hear about your results, kikker.

 The card should flash to a Prodigy without fuss, but you might need to use different drivers. If the regular Prodigy 7.1 drivers don't work, you might try the drivers for other similar cards like the Prodigy 7.1 HiFi.

 Here's a link to the AudioTrak download area._

 

Yeah, baby. I flashed the card and am using the normal 7.1 drivers on Vista, and EVERYTHING works. Bitperfection verified by dts wave files and auto-switching sampling rates back and forth between music PCM files and ac3/dts-containing movie files. I have verified that the normal driver's ASIO implementation is all that is required - no ks or ks wrappers required. The 2 applications I tried with success are Winamp and MediaPortal. 

 The only thing you need to make sure of is that in the Prodigy control panel the M Clock setting is set to INT (internal?).


----------



## infinitesymphony

Thanks for the info, kikker. Glad to hear that the flashed card is working well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Vista users looking for a cheap bit-perfect transport card, rejoice!


----------



## ilgello

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kikker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, baby. I flashed the card and am using the normal 7.1 drivers on Vista, and EVERYTHING works. Bitperfection verified by dts wave files and auto-switching sampling rates back and forth between music PCM files and ac3/dts-containing movie files. I have verified that the normal driver's ASIO implementation is all that is required - no ks or ks wrappers required. The 2 applications I tried with success are Winamp and MediaPortal. 

 The only thing you need to make sure of is that in the Prodigy control panel the M Clock setting is set to INT (internal?)._

 

Do you mind the post a couple of screenshot of the panel ? I can't get bit perfection under XP, I'm using udial to test it 'cause I don't have a dts decoder...


----------



## Brewmaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ilgello* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you mind the post a couple of screenshot of the panel ? I can't get bit perfection under XP, I'm using udial to test it 'cause I don't have a dts decoder..._

 

I'll throw up a copy of mine.





 Note that I have Foobar set to ASIO 2 - Prodigy 7.1, 32 bit output. All resampling and other effects dissabled.


----------



## santiclaws

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Brewmaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll throw up a copy of mine.






 Note that I have Foobar set to ASIO 2 - Prodigy 7.1, 32 bit output. All resampling and other effects dissabled._

 

You have this going via a digital connection?


----------



## Brewmaster

Ilgello,
 Are you using the digital out of the AV710? The Prodigy hack is only for the digital out.


----------



## ilgello

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Brewmaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ilgello,
 Are you using the digital out of the AV710? The Prodigy hack is only for the digital out._

 

Yes optical cable from blue jeans....


----------



## ilgello

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *santiclaws* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You have this going via a digital connection?_

 

I thought the Q must be left disabled


----------



## Brewmaster

I don't know what the "Q" is for, but it makes no difference to me if it is on or off.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Let's not get too far off-topic, since this thread is about the AV-710's analog capabilities. It's nice to have a slight diversion about flashing the card to improve digital output, since a lot of people have asked about it, but let's not turn this into a digital discussion.


----------



## ilgello

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Let's not get too far off-topic, since this thread is about the AV-710's analog capabilities. It's nice to have a slight diversion about flashing the card to improve digital output, since a lot of people have asked about it, but let's not turn this into a digital discussion. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Is there an official thread just for the prodigy ?


----------



## edguetzow

Howdy!

 I am new to this fantastic forum thanks to this great thread! I was searching for an upgrade for a sound card and tried the Chaintech 710. It is now bit perfect (analogue with Wolfson DAC)) as set by the initial thread recommendations. The only problem that I was having was that I could not get the Spdif digital out to send a correct DTS signal. After much reading, I found that a fellow Headfier (can't remember the poster or thread) was faced with the same scenario and solved it by simply adjusting the volume on the PCM spdif out to 100%. It had been slightly below full volume and this minor adjustment allowed the DTS signal to be recognized - hence, bit perfect proof! As I didn't notice this in this current thread, I thought it might be helpful to other noobs like me. 

 I am using a Headroom Airhead (older model) with Senn Hd-495. I have already upgraded to Senn HD-650. The difference is amazing. With enough savings, I will be looking at getting a Gilmore Lite or GS-1.

 My setup is currently quite simple:
 EAC Flac -> Foobar2K 0.9.5 -> Chaintech 710 -> Headamp Airhead -> HD650

 Now I spend a LOT more time updoading and rediscovering the music in my collection! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ed G.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Thanks for that, edguetzow. It's always nice to hear about satisfied Head-Fiers.

 Your point about gain staging is a good one. For proper gain staging and bit-perfect output in Windows, all volume controls should be set to 100%, especially in software players. If you need to lower the volume, the Windows Master Volume slider (often controlled by the sound card drivers' Master volume slider) should be used as it has been found to exhibit the least amount of distortion when below 100%.


----------



## andre.beat

This is probably a silly question but here it goes. If I'm using headphones (HD595) with no amp should I also plug them into the black jack?


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *andre.beat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is probably a silly question but here it goes. If I'm using headphones (HD595) with no amp should I also plug them into the black jack?_

 

That's sort of a complicated question. The green jack (VIA DAC) will yield inferior sound quality, but it does have its own amplification section capable of driving headphones. Since the HD-595s only have 50 ohm impedance and high sensitivity, they shouldn't be difficult to drive, so the black jack (Wolfson DAC) is probably fine to use.

 Ideally, you should consider purchasing or building a headphone amplifier to have the best of both worlds.


----------



## andre.beat

Yes I'm considering that option but right now it is not an option. By the way I have some stuff in 24-bit 96khz (mostly vinyl rips in flac), if I use this method it will be downsampled to 16-bit 44.1khz right? How should I play it for it not to be downsampled but still have the best quality?


----------



## infinitesymphony

For material higher than 48 kHz, you'll need to switch to the 2CH Hi-Sample Rate mode in the Audio Deck--this will enable the 96 kHz and 192 kHz sampling rates. Then, when you're done, switch back to regular 2CH mode using the method in the first post.


----------



## hubcaps

Does anyone know how to uninstall version 5? Every time I uninstall it and try to install 4.73b, it installs as version 5.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hubcaps* 
_Does anyone know how to uninstall version 5? Every time I uninstall it and try to install 4.73b, it installs as version 5._

 

Just running the uninstall program was enough for me... Make sure to reboot to finish the uninstall process before installing different drivers.

 Edit: Also, don't go by the version number listed in the Audio Deck. This number is the Audio Deck software version, not the driver version.


----------



## htbyron

I'm getting strange characters in my Envy24 Audio Deck controller -- gibberish!

 Here's a screenshot/crop:







 Any idea what's causing this or how to fix it?

 (I'm guessing reinstall the driver, which I will try shortly. But I thought I should check here to see if anyone has seen anything like this.)


----------



## infinitesymphony

I have seen that, once before... Not sure about the cause, but a driver uninstall/reinstall did the trick.


----------



## htbyron

Yep, that seemed to fix it. Thanks for all your help here!


----------



## htbyron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For material higher than 48 kHz, you'll need to switch to the 2CH Hi-Sample Rate mode in the Audio Deck--this will enable the 96 kHz and 192 kHz sampling rates. Then, when you're done, switch back to regular 2CH mode using the method in the first post._

 

Is the AV-710 limited only to those sample rates? I was considering picking up a FLAC recording from Linn Records at 88.2kHz (24-bit). Will this play through the AV-710? Will it be resampled? Any advice?


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *htbyron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the AV-710 limited only to those sample rates? I was considering picking up a FLAC recording from Linn Records at 88.2kHz (24-bit). Will this play through the AV-710? Will it be resampled? Any advice?_

 

Good question. My guess is that the AV-710 will resample 88.2 kHz to 96 kHz and 176.4 kHz to 192 kHz. In this case, you'll either want to use a high quality audio editing program to resample, or perform real-time resampling with a resampler plug-in in your playback program. Letting the card do its own resampling is probably the worst choice, since the drivers' algorithms are usually built for speed and not quality.


----------



## htbyron

Thanks. I can try resampling in foobar.


----------



## MontyPythizzle

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have seen that, once before... Not sure about the cause, but a driver uninstall/reinstall did the trick. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ya it does that **** to me all the time, uninstall/reinstall does the trick.


----------



## Chingyul

I tried installing my AV710 recently. The system doesn't detect the new hardware (ASUS M2N Deluxe). I tried the card in a different system and the card cause that system not to boot up at all. 
 Faulty card? I'm out of the warrenty period at NCIX so looks like I probably have to pick up a new one? Anyone else have this problem?


----------



## MontyPythizzle

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chingyul* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried installing my AV710 recently. The system doesn't detect the new hardware (ASUS M2N Deluxe). I tried the card in a different system and the card cause that system not to boot up at all. 
 Faulty card? I'm out of the warrenty period at NCIX so looks like I probably have to pick up a new one? Anyone else have this problem?_

 

One time I had an AV710 with a weird problem, when it would play music it would blue screen with a problem with one of the Envy drivers, even reformatting my computer and trying different drivers the card would still blue screen. I just ended up throwing it out and buying a new one. I shouldn't have but I couldn't stand the crap it gave me. Hell, they were only 25 shipped.


----------



## midnite8791

is it common with kernel streaming in foobar that whenever a sound will come from elsewhere, such as playing a youtube video for the music to stop?


----------



## edguetzow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midnite8791* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is it common with kernel streaming in foobar that whenever a sound will come from elsewhere, such as playing a youtube video for the music to stop?_

 

Yes. But you can set up your system to use another card or your built-in onboard audio to play the system sounds and not interrupt your foobar kernal streaming.

 You would have the 710 play music only (via cans or speakers) or kernel stream (via foobar) to an external device like speakers, a DAC, your cans, your receiver, etc. You could then have another pair of speakers hooked up to your onboard audio to play the sounds not played through foobar and the 710.

 I believe it has been posted before in this or another thread. I did it myself in XP and have forgotten exactly what I did to achieve it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It involved going to Control Panel, selecting Sounds & Audio Devices and making sure that the default sound devices are the onboard audio that your system provides (like Realtek AC97 Audio for example).

 I am sure someone online can provide better directions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It *is do-able*, however!


----------



## Chingyul

Yeah, I was gonna buy a new one........but they seem to be discontinued.


----------



## midnite8791

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes. But you can set up your system to use another card or your built-in onboard audio to play the system sounds and not interrupt your foobar kernal streaming.

 You would have the 710 play music only (via cans or speakers) or kernel stream (via foobar) to an external device like speakers, a DAC, your cans, your receiver, etc. You could then have another pair of speakers hooked up to your onboard audio to play the sounds not played through foobar and the 710.

 I believe it has been posted before in this or another thread. I did it myself in XP and have forgotten exactly what I did to achieve it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It involved going to Control Panel, selecting Sounds & Audio Devices and making sure that the default sound devices are the onboard audio that your system provides (like Realtek AC97 Audio for example).

 I am sure someone online can provide better directions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It *is do-able*, however!_

 

It really isnt that big of a deal, I was just curious if it was normal but thanks for the advice!


----------



## infinitesymphony

Yep, interruption of KS is normal--one source at a time. As edguetzow said, you can make onboard sound the default playback device in the Sounds and Audio Devices section of the Control Panel (Audio tab) and then setup Foobar or other programs to use the AV-710. Or, you could disable Windows sounds (Sounds tab) and the sounds of other programs if they allow it.


----------



## santiclaws

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Done! If you plan on using the Kernel Streaming plug-in in Foobar, remember to enable the Resampler plug-in and set it to 96 khz._

 

Sorry for the stupid question, but how do I enable it?

 EDIT: NM, figured it out.


----------



## Joshatdot

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chingyul* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I was gonna buy a new one........but they seem to be discontinued._

 

I know...I want to get another for backup.


----------



## Joshatdot

OMG! I found a site that sells the AV710 for the old cheep price!

 $26.00
 MEMORYEXPOUSA

av710 OR "av-710" OR "av 710" - Google Product Search

 I gots me one, JIC I need a backup. *edit* maybe they are not a good place


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joshatdot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OMG! I found a site that sells the AV710 for the old cheep price!

 $26.00
 MEMORYEXPOUSA_

 

Might want to check the Reseller Rating of MemoryExpo.


----------



## Joshatdot

The next day I got an email saying they were out of stock, and they canceled my order.


----------



## phyrefly

I found a used AV-710. Wow... what a difference it makes compared to ALC888 or my old SB Live!!!!


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *phyrefly* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I found a used AV-710. Wow... what a difference it makes compared to ALC888 or my old SB Live!!!!_

 

Yep! It's too bad they no longer seem to be available new... There's really nothing to replace them at the under $30 price point yet.


----------



## wangerin

Quick bump, thread helped alot.

 I beleive "Mad Dog" re-labeled the AV-710, can anyone confirm?


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wangerin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I beleive "Mad Dog" re-labeled the AV-710, can anyone confirm?_

 

Not exactly... The two cards have different designs, but the most important parts seem to be the same. They both use the Envy 24HT-S chipset, VT1616 DACs for most channels, and the Wolfson WM8728 for one set of channels. However, the Mad Dog Multimedia Entertainer 7.1 has an extra optical jack (S/PDIF In), and a different output layout.

 Technically, since they both use the same drivers, it should work. Someone give it a try. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*Chaintech AV-710*





*Mad Dog Multimedia Entertainer 7.1*


----------



## Bonzi

Are you using KS and PPHS 44.1Khz on "ultra" mode, or just PPHS(without "ultra")? I mean doesn't "ultra" spoil the transparency of 44.1Khz genuine recordings? 

 On the chaintech av-710, I purchased it for $15, it was used. I was very happy and still am, it works fine with 4.73b in XP and 5.20b in Vista.


----------



## Bonzi

By the way I am using the onboard audio(Realtek HD 880) along with av-710 because chaintech av-710+KS=no sound in windows environment. So.. I started using onboard sound coupled with some Altec Lansing 2100 speaker and it is pretty good actually- for a mobo at $70 pricetag. The Realtek has no middle and so on, but it's not as bad as I thought would be. I even tried it with winamp 2.95+KS, Fb2k+KS and it works great, the 44.1Khz mode is the best. *Strangely ALC880 plays simultaniously the windows environment and KS+winamp, Fb2K+KS. Chainetch av-710 cannot do it.*


----------



## dantztiludrop

This is very cool...thanks infinitesymphony so much for writing a set-up guide like this, especially for members of an older generation that are digitally-impaired(READ: ME). I just bought the AV-710 used last night on ebay & already knew that I'd have to start researching how to get the most out of it when it arrives. Woke up this a.m. to find this right @ the top of this forum. I've bookmarked it, but I have the feeling I'll be back here next week with some questions. Thanks again.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bonzi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you using KS and PPHS 44.1Khz on "ultra" mode, or just PPHS(without "ultra")? I mean doesn't "ultra" spoil the transparency of 44.1Khz genuine recordings?_

 

There's no reason to use a resampler like PPHS at 44.1 kHz; any software resampling will affect transparency.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bonzi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Strangely ALC880 plays simultaniously the windows environment and KS+winamp, Fb2K+KS. Chainetch av-710 cannot do it._

 

The ability to play back both KS and DS at the same time varies from one sound card to another. For example, the E-MU 1212M can play back ASIO, KS, and DS at the same time, while the 0404 USB is limited to either ASIO/KS or DS. It's a known limitation of the AV-710.


----------



## Bonzi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There's no reason to use a resampler like PPHS at 44.1 kHz; any software resampling will affect transparency._

 

I'm talking about particular case here, there is no way you can use Fb2k+KS+AV-710 without the resampler. Or is there?

 EDIT: Yes! for the first time I threw away the resampler and it worked.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bonzi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm talking about particular case here, there is no way you can use Fb2k+KS+AV-710 without the resampler. Or is there?_

 

Yes, KS will work as long as the sound card knows what to expect. I just meant that there's no reason to use the resampler to "resample" from 44.1 kHz to 44.1 kHz. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In Vista, you'll want to use the resampler to upsample the output to 96 kHz. If you output 44.1 kHz from foobar2000, Vista will perform the upsampling itself. Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## Bonzi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, KS will work as long as the sound card knows what to expect. I just meant that there's no reason to use the resampler to "resample" from 44.1 kHz to 44.1 kHz. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In Vista, you'll want to use the resampler to upsample the output to 96 kHz. If you output 44.1 kHz from foobar2000, Vista will perform the upsampling itself. Sorry for the confusion. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

thanks, I got it. Infact I also got Vista Home Basic and using 5.20b and 44.1 with S/PDIF enabled gives good playback. Vista, in my opinion, doesn't upsample anything because in Control Panel 2CH with S/PDIF PCM Only enabled@44100 it figures as 16bit 44100Hz, or you can choose 24bit 44100Hz in the last instance(exactly card's settings). I mean you cannot go 48000hz or 96000Hz from there, these settings are simply absent. 
 Although chaintech card doesn't sound nearly as good(natural) as my little old D-777 Sony CDplayer, for AudioCD I never use chaintech.


----------



## Joshatdot

dang..the Mad Dog's are back ordered or out of stock pretty much every store i found on Froogle


----------



## peticsu

is it normal to have a really loud screeching noise come on when Windows loads? It doesnt happen every load but lets say 1/20 it does it...
 Im finding that the majority of the time I come out of Hibernate the sounds quality goes completely s*** or that the KS driver doesnt want to work...

 Its so frustrating that I have to reset my computer almost every time I come out of Hibernate...


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peticsu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is it normal to have a really loud screeching noise come on when Windows loads? It doesnt happen every load but lets say 1/20 it does it...
 Im finding that the majority of the time I come out of Hibernate the sounds quality goes completely s*** or that the KS driver doesnt want to work...

 Its so frustrating that I have to reset my computer almost every time I come out of Hibernate..._

 

No, that's not normal. Also, hibernation / sleep mode is only recommended for laptop users because it's known to be buggy. A better option: set up your power saving features to shut off the screen and hard disks after a certain amount of time.

 Which OS and VIA driver release are you using?


----------



## peticsu

Im using XP 32-b, 5.12.1.3647 audio drivers, Foobar v 0.9.5, with the regular KS driver from Foobars website


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peticsu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_5.12.1.3647 audio drivers_

 

That number is the version of the Audio Deck, not the driver version. In any case, if you're using 4.73b (which is recommended for XP) or 5.20b, there shouldn't be any strange issues.


----------



## sabotaged

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*
[size=small]Windows XP 64-bit

 1. Install the card into a free PCI slot on the motherboard.
 2. Plug your amplification device (ex. speakers, receiver, etc.) into the black "Back Surr" jack on the back of the card next to the optical output. [Previous card revision: "Alt. Out"]
 3. Download the Envy 24 Family Driver version 4.60b linked here and install it using Setup.exe (Application) in the Setup directory.
 4. Once the drivers are installed, open up the Envy control panel using its tray icon on the taskbar.
 5. Click 2CH if it's not already selected (not 2CH Hi-Sample Rate).
 6. Go into the digital output section and enable S/PDIF output, selecting PCM as the sub-option. Click the Auto button under sampling rate.

 Done! You'll now be capable of using Kernel Streaming in Foobar to directly send 44.1 kHz and 48 kHz audio content through your sound card's Wolfson DAC.

 Note: This section is untested and needs confirmation from a user. If this doesn't work or needs revision, please let me know!*_*
*
*


I've had my AV-710 for quite some time now, so reading that you could get kernel streaming going without having to use 96 kHz and upsampling was interesting. However, when I try this on my 64-bit XP, it doesn't seem to work.

 In the envy control panel, setting the audio output from "hi sample rate" to the regular 2 results in no sound coming from the jack next to the toslink one (ie the wolfson one), regardless of regular or kernel streaming being used.

 Isn't this what's supposed to happen? With the regular "2" CH icon engaged, sound comes from the regular VIA jack. The guide implicitly states that sound should be coming from the wolfson jack with the regular 2 icon though.

 Has anyone gotten this working on 64-bit XP? I notice that my drivers are slightly newer (5.12.1.3652 vs the recommended 5.12.1.3646). If so, what driver version are you running?*


----------



## edguetzow

I don't have 64-bit XP but I did have a problem when my main volume channels in the control panel were not set to max.

 Check it. If it is _even slightly below_ max output then you will get NO sound. Push the slider up MAX all the way and try it.

 Let us know how it goes!


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That number is the version of the Audio Deck, not the driver version. In any case, if you're using 4.73b (which is recommended for XP) or 5.20b, there shouldn't be any strange issues._

 

How can I find what version I have? Thanks.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sabotaged* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've had my AV-710 for quite some time now, so reading that you could get kernel streaming going without having to use 96 kHz and upsampling was interesting. However, when I try this on my 64-bit XP, it doesn't seem to work.

 In the envy control panel, setting the audio output from "hi sample rate" to the regular 2 results in no sound coming from the jack next to the toslink one (ie the wolfson one), regardless of regular or kernel streaming being used.

 Has anyone gotten this working on 64-bit XP? I notice that my drivers are slightly newer (5.12.1.3652 vs the recommended 5.12.1.3646). If so, what driver version are you running?_

 

Yes, the trick is supposed to give you non-resampled analog output from the Wolfson. Did you enable S/PDIF output with PCM checked as the sub-option?

 The version numbers you mentioned are for the Audio Deck application, not the drivers themselves. The guide recommends the newest driver version for XP 64-bit, which is v4.60, but you're the first person who claims to have tested it (thanks, BTW! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). If that driver version doesn't work, you might give one of the older versions a try:

 AV-710 on XP64 - v6.10
 AV-710 on XP64 - v4.32 beta

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How can I find what version I have? Thanks._

 

There might be a way to look at the properties of the actual driver files you're using, but IIRC, the only way to know for sure is to remember which ones you've installed. Unfortunately, I don't think there's an easy-to-access version number.


----------



## sabotaged

Thanks for the replies. I managed to get it to work: The problem seemed to be the driver version I was using. I installed the 4.60b drivers and now I have 44.1 kHz kernel streaming working in foobar with the wolfson output. 

 PS: 5.12.1.3646 is actually the driver version of Envy24HF.sys, not the audio deck program, and this slightly older version is working for me. You can find it in device manager by double clicking Envy24 Family Audio Controller and going to driver.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sabotaged* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the replies. I managed to get it to work: The problem seemed to be the driver version I was using. I installed the 4.60b drivers and now I have 44.1 kHz kernel streaming working in foobar with the wolfson output. 

 PS: 5.12.1.3646 is actually the driver version of Envy24HF.sys, not the audio deck program, and this slightly older version is working for me. You can find it in device manager by double clicking Envy24 Family Audio Controller and going to driver._

 

Ah, gotcha, thanks for the correction. Is that the same version number that shows up in the Audio Deck?

 I'm glad to hear that it works! Which driver version were you using before? The 4.60b pack is listed as the most recent driver for XP64 on the VIA Arena site.


----------



## sabotaged

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, gotcha, thanks for the correction. Is that the same version number that shows up in the Audio Deck?

 I'm glad to hear that it works! Which driver version were you using before? The 4.60b pack is listed as the most recent driver for XP64 on the VIA Arena site._

 

No, the version that shows up in audio deck is 0.0.1.1

 Through a bit of detective work I have found that the driver version I was using was 5.20b. They are available here: VIA Arena - Display Drivers

 Something else I found out -- the last two digits of the driver number in device manager is the version via lists on their website.

 I had 5.12.1.36*52* (version 5.2)
 44.1 kHz out seems to only work with 5.12.1.36*46* (version 4.6)

 You can also check the properties of the Envy24HF.sys file in the driver zips to check the version.

 Anyways, nothing new here, that driver version was already recommended in the original post but hopefully this will help anyone who comes looking and are confused about driver versions


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sabotaged* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Through a bit of detective work I have found that the driver version I was using was 5.20b. They are available here: VIA Arena - Display Drivers

 Something else I found out -- the last two digits of the driver number in device manager is the version via lists on their website.

 I had 5.12.1.36*52* (version 5.2)
 44.1 kHz out seems to only work with 5.12.1.36*46* (version 4.6)

 You can also check the properties of the Envy24HF.sys file in the driver zips to check the version._

 

Thanks again for the info. I'll check it out when I have access to the computer with the AV-710 inside. The drivers you linked to are listed as being for Windows Vista 64-bit instead of XP 64-bit, so that might explain the confusion. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's good that the 4.60b version is working with the 44.1 kHz trick--I'll give you credit in the first post for making the confirmation. Have you noticed any difference in sound quality versus resampling?


----------



## duetta

New driver (5.30) apparently out as of March 8th. Anybody try it, especially in Vista? 

 My cards works ok under Vista Basic (using the 5.17 drivers that Vista automatically loads), but I haven't managed to get it to work with a Leadtek Analog TV Tuner DVR application (although it works fine when simply watching TV on the PC). Vista refused to allow the 5.20 drivers to install at all.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Thanks for the update, duetta. Do the 5.30b drivers appear to have the same basic functionality as the other drivers you tried?


----------



## duetta

Not sure. I'll download them when I get home from work. I didn't find any explanation for the revision at ViaArena, but it might be included with the file.


----------



## duetta

Not sure what specifically has changed in terms of features, but these drivers (dated December 12-5-2007) work much better with my copy of Vista Basic. 

 On installation, first removing the older drivers, then running setup led to repeated Blue Screens of Death in my system. I eventually got the drivers to install by selecting the "last known good configuration" option in Vista startup, and then using the update driver option in Control Panel. 

 I was never able to get the line-in to work with my DVR software with the previous drivers, but now the line-in jack is feeding both the TV tuner application and the DVR application.

 Beyond that, the "sound" control panel options remain pretty much greek to me - as opposed to the much more straightfoward options in Windows 2000/XP. For instance, I tried last night to get audio out of the ALT jack, but only heard anything at all in 7/1 setup, and not with mp3. I tend not to take computer audio too seriously, but it would be nice to restore the ability to drive a PC headset from the front speaker jack while having a dedicated headphone amp output routed to the ALT jack (as with the XP/Windows 2000 drivers).


----------



## infinitesymphony

Yeah, unfortunately Vista doesn't allow the non-resampled output trick, which means that only one output at a time (VIA or Wolfson, depending on 2CH or 2CH Hi-Sample Rate) will work for front channel audio.

 I'm guessing that these new drivers mostly fix compatibility issues with the old ones, rather than offering new functionality (or changing old functionality), so I've updated the link in the first post to include the 5.30b release for Vista.


----------



## hubcaps

I've got my chaintech setup as posted, but it sounds very distorted. It sounds like it is clipping. When I switch the output back to the green one, it sounds fine. Any ideas why it sounds like this? Thanks


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hubcaps* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've got my chaintech setup as posted, but it sounds very distorted. It sounds like it is clipping. When I switch the output back to the green one, it sounds fine. Any ideas why it sounds like this? Thanks_

 

Which operating system?

 What kind of audio system / setup (including software players)?

 Since your problem seems a little uncommon, my initial guess is that something is wrong with the hardware on that portion of the card (but I hope not). Have you rebooted since setting it up?


----------



## hubcaps

I'm using xp pro and running foobar. I've tried using 4-5 of my headphones and all the same. I did reboot. I'm going to be upgrading to vista soon, so I'll try the other setup you posted.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hubcaps* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm using xp pro and running foobar. I've tried using 4-5 of my headphones and all the same. I did reboot. I'm going to be upgrading to vista soon, so I'll try the other setup you posted._

 

Hmm... That points toward a hardware issue with the card. Has the card ever worked properly from the Back Surr. jack? If you haven't tried it, you might try setting the card to Hi-Sample 2CH and having Foobar's Resampler plug-in upsample to 96000 Hz.

 Wait a sec... You're plugging the headphones directly into the jack? The Back Surr output is an unamplified line output, not designed to drive headphones (though many people do try to use it for that purpose). The green VIA front channel output, on the other hand, has built-in headphone amplification. This might explain the difference. A simple headphone amplifier will cure the problem if that turns out to be the issue.


----------



## ditzydj

Hi all

 am awaiting delivery of a NIB Chaintech. Been looking for a soundcard, reading till my head's about to asplode and I kept seeing Chaintech as being just a really nice, stable card. Computer needs a clean install due to Creative (currently have xtremegamer) doing it's "thing"

 Specs:
 Asus M2N32 Sli Deluxe mobo, AMD Athlon 64x2 5600+
 AM2 w/ Arctic Cooling Freezer 60 Pro heatsink; 2.81 GHz, 2.0 GB RAM
 NVIDIA GeForce 8600 GT, Hitachi 320 gb 7200 HD/Hitachi 250 gb 7200 HD
 Win XP Pro SP2
 VM edition 500 watt PSU; Black Lian Li case, Viewsonic 19" VA1930wm LCD monitor

 I am Tech challenged. No fancy set-up here, will be using a headset/mic combo, do internet dj'ing with SAM3. Use wmp for uploading cds, use Audacity for doing on the fly edits (all ages site so some words are no-nos) and Audio Recorder or Audacity if I have to do a quicky promo. Occasionally use Skype if we're "double dj'ing". So need nice sound for music and voice.

 No special speakers, no pre-amps, no monitor, just computer, soundcard, headphone/mic. For now at least. No $$ for anything right now.

 I know I shouldn't use the drivers from the CD, right? But should I install the software/control panel from the CD? I've been to VIA and they have a message that the drivers listed are not for sound cards, so yeah, I'm confused.

 What is the right way to install this card for XP ProSP2(32) - I know how physically. But for drivers and software, what do I need to do/to get so this card just works.

 Thanks for any and all help.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ditzydj* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know I shouldn't use the drivers from the CD, right? But should I install the software/control panel from the CD? I've been to VIA and they have a message that the drivers listed are not for sound cards, so yeah, I'm confused.

 What is the right way to install this card for XP ProSP2(32) - I know how physically. But for drivers and software, what do I need to do/to get so this card just works._

 

You've come to the right place. Start by reading the first post in this thread, which should answer all of your questions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 However, most people around here don't use the card for recording purposes, and I've read reports that the microphone amplification does not work well. Also, you won't be able to use the sound card's high quality output directly into your headphones, since that output does not have a headphone amplifier.


----------



## ditzydj

Thanks Infinite!

 I'm impatiently awaiting my card, was shipped on the 9th, so hopefully Monday!

 Read your reply to hubcaps - I would be plugging my headphones into the green jack, mic into the pink. I'm so ... basic?

 I have both the 473b and 530b version drivers sitting on my desktop. I note that the 473 in the first post are the ones recommended for XP Pro SP2 32bit (me!) ... is there a reason for me to use the newer 530b drivers? or are they for 64bit/Vista? In other words, is the control panel/software pretty much the same? Just drivers that are different. I don't want to mess this installation up! 

 Thanks


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ditzydj* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Read your reply to hubcaps - I would be plugging my headphones into the green jack, mic into the pink. I'm so ... basic?_

 

Yes, even though technically the true benefits of the card will be lost... Out of the green jack, it will be no better than any other cheap card.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ditzydj* 
_I have both the 473b and 530b version drivers sitting on my desktop. I note that the 473 in the first post are the ones recommended for XP Pro SP2 32bit (me!) ... is there a reason for me to use the newer 530b drivers? or are they for 64bit/Vista? In other words, is the control panel/software pretty much the same? Just drivers that are different. I don't want to mess this installation up!_

 

The 5.30b driver pack in the first post is in the Vista section, but that same zip file also contains the XP drivers. Since you won't be using the Wolfson analog output trick, you can use the 5.30b drivers.


----------



## latershow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peticsu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is it normal to have a really loud screeching noise come on when Windows loads? It doesnt happen every load but lets say 1/20 it does it..._

 

Yes this has happened on mine since day 1, but in my case it happens more regularly, just about 1 in 3 times. I have to disable audio controller in "device manager" and restart PC. I remember reading all the reviews over at newegg where many people were experiencing the same problem.


----------



## ditzydj

The card got here today! Probably a silly question, but I've seen people say on some cards that they almost need "burning in" ... is this card one of them? Sound is pretty good until I try using it with SAM3. I have the volume down to -3.3dB in SAM and I'm getting some distortion. Voice over mic is fine. Master volume is 2 bars below "medium". Right now I'm just listening through wmp and it sounds pretty nice. 

 I tried both the 5.30b and 4.73b drivers - the 5 drivers were worse, so I uninstalled and am using the 4.73. 

 Sample rate is 44.1, S/PDIF ... the only thing checked is PCM Only - I have no clue what this is, Recording DC remove and 20 dB boost is checked, recording select is stereo mix, Smooth GUI mode and stereo expander are selected in Advanced.

 There's no equilizer or mixer on the control panel.

 I'd read that this card could be a little "quiet", I'm finding the opposite! At this point anything's better than the creative I had in ... any suggestions on the distortion issue?


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ditzydj* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried both the 5.30b and 4.73b drivers - the 5 drivers were worse, so I uninstalled and am using the 4.73._

 

Really? In what way? I've only used up to 5.20b, but those drivers were nearly identical with 4.73b.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ditzydj* 
_Sample rate is 44.1, S/PDIF ... the only thing checked is PCM Only - I have no clue what this is, Recording DC remove and 20 dB boost is checked, recording select is stereo mix, Smooth GUI mode and stereo expander are selected in Advanced._

 

Sounds good, except for "stereo expander." IMO, you should leave the job of spatial effects, EQ, mixing, etc. up to the playback program. Plug-ins will do a much better job than the simple effects coded into the drivers.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ditzydj* 
_I'd read that this card could be a little "quiet", I'm finding the opposite! At this point anything's better than the creative I had in ... any suggestions on the distortion issue?_

 

I'm not familiar with SAM Broadcaster, so I'm not exactly sure. You'll have to narrow down where the distortion is occurring. Try leaving all of the playback volumes at 0 dB and 100% (except the master volume slider, which shouldn't be the problem), then when you hear distortion, try reducing one of the volume sliders. My guess is that it's the broadcasting program, especially if you're mixing multiple audio signals. In that case, it's safe to turn it down as much as it takes to prevent clipping.


----------



## Apocalypsee

I would like to ask, this card have no sort of opamp whatsoever right? I'll buy this card soon, not the exact brand, but Evolution 7.1 . Exact carbon copy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm too tired of playing with opamp on Prodigy HD2, I would like something simpler like this card while having a great sound


----------



## ditzydj

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Apocalypsee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would like to ask, this card have no sort of opamp whatsoever right? I'll buy this card soon, not the exact brand, but Evolution 7.1 . Exact carbon copy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm too tired of playing with opamp on Prodigy HD2, I would like something simpler like this card while having a great sound_

 

I just did a quick google and I couldn't find any info on that Evolution besides your link. And the information there seems kind of sparse? I hope someone who does know that card can give you some info!

 I have come to the conclusion that while the Chaintech is a great card, it's just not the right one for me and my use. I don't have the external equalizer/mixer/DAC ... all that I think is needed to use this to it's full potential, nor can I afford any components. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And there is SAM in the mix, running sound through encoders, nothing's compressed ... SAM can drive me crazy! So, I'll be posting in the for sale section. Let someone who can really use this properly get their hands on it!


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Apocalypsee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would like to ask, this card have no sort of opamp whatsoever right? I'll buy this card soon, not the exact brand, but Evolution 7.1 . Exact carbon copy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I don't have the card nearby to take a look, but I'm pretty sure that it (along with practically every sound card in existence 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) uses an op-amp... The difference is that it's SOIC and not socketed. Check out this picture, and look to the right of the large VIA HT-S chip in the top photo; it looks like an 8-pin op-amp of some sort. There's also one by the VIA DAC section...

 Edit: You may be right, though... I don't see an op-amp near the Wolfson section.


----------



## Apocalypsee

I've seen the card thoroughly. One more question, does this card emit hissing when nothing is played? I'm annoyed by my SB Live! hissing and the HD2 is very quiet thankfully. I hope that the AV-710 also quiet


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Apocalypsee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've seen the card thoroughly. One more question, does this card emit hissing when nothing is played? I'm annoyed by my SB Live! hissing and the HD2 is very quiet thankfully. I hope that the AV-710 also quiet_

 

I think that will depend on your setup. I've never used the card with anything but some semi-decent computer speakers (which are not revealing at all in comparison to most systems around here, or a headphone system); any hiss would have been buried in the noise floor of the speaker amp. Hopefully someone else can comment on this issue.


----------



## donnytuco

What's the ideal setup to use with the kernel streaming?

 I've just received my AV 710 today, and installed the drivers as per the instructions on the first post, but I can't tell the difference between KS and DS.

 It might have something to do with my setup, as I don't have an amp...


----------



## infinitesymphony

The difference between KS and DS can be subtle or nonexistent for certain people or systems. If it's set up as in the first post, you're all set. What's your system? If you're trying to drive headphones directly, you may get better performance from the green output (it has an internal headphone amp); to use the Wolfson output properly with headphones, you'll need an external amp.


----------



## MoNelly

Where are you guys buying the Chaintech AV-710? I can't find it for purchase new anywhere online...


----------



## Fiola

hmm, following the instructions for vista doesn't seem to work. I have no 2CH High-Sample mode that used to be there in the XP via audio deck. Is there a simple solution to this? I followed the guide on the first page of this thread.

 Thanks

 [edit] I solved my own problem..... smack forehead. according to flagger's post way back on page 15 or so, if you select the high-sample digital output, it actually also outputs to the black alternate output, despite the fact that the control panel explicitly says that it doesn't. go figure!


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fiola* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_[edit] I solved my own problem..... smack forehead. according to flagger's post way back on page 15 or so, if you select the high-sample digital output, it actually also outputs to the black alternate output, despite the fact that the control panel explicitly says that it doesn't. go figure!_

 

In Vista, I don't think it will matter if you select the digital output or not, since the 'digital output trick' doesn't work--you'll need to resample to 96 kHz no matter what. This is why the Vista mini-guide omits that step.


----------



## drizek

im a bit new to this stuff so...

 When you say resample to 96 in vista, does that mean that 44 and 48 get moved up to 96?

 Is there any advantage/is it possible to resample to 192 instead?


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drizek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_im a bit new to this stuff so...

 When you say resample to 96 in vista, does that mean that 44 and 48 get moved up to 96?

 Is there any advantage/is it possible to resample to 192 instead?_

 

Yes, everything will need to be resampled to 96 kHz in order to use Kernel Streaming (which is the ideal method). It's possible to resample to 192 kHz, but there are no advantages.


----------



## teenage kicks

How can you change the sampling rate in the settings menu? Every time I go to adjust it, it says "There's a sound currently playing, please stop it", no matter which apps are open.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *teenage kicks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How can you change the sampling rate in the settings menu? Every time I go to adjust it, it says "There's a sound currently playing, please stop it", no matter which apps are open._

 

Which settings menu, Windows or the Audio Deck? What OS are you using?

 Resampling should not be performed at all if it's possible with your OS. If you must resample, use a resampler plug-in in a playback program like Foobar 2000.


----------



## teenage kicks

The Audio Deck menu, and I'm running Windows XP SP2. And I know resampling is bad, that's why I want to change it from 48KHz (what it's at now) to 44.1KHz (normal CD).


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *teenage kicks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Audio Deck menu, and I'm running Windows XP SP2. And I know resampling is bad, that's why I want to change it from 48KHz (what it's at now) to 44.1KHz (normal CD)._

 

Gotcha... Have you followed the steps detailed in the first post, including using the particular driver version listed? No one here has mentioned that specific problem before. Try closing all unnecessary programs and processes before changing the setting.


----------



## drizek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, everything will need to be resampled to 96 kHz in order to use Kernel Streaming (which is the ideal method). It's possible to resample to 192 kHz, but there are no advantages._

 

Thanks, I set up foobar with kernel streaming and it works fine in vista 64.

 However, I am trying to get it to work with ASIO4ALL and ASIO keeps giving me beyond logic errors.

 Is it possible to get this card to use ASIO4ALL under vista? I was able to get it working in xp32, but not anymore.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drizek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it possible to get this card to use ASIO4ALL under vista? I was able to get it working in xp32, but not anymore._

 

I'm not sure, but there shouldn't be a difference between KS and any flavor of ASIO in terms of playback routing / quality.


----------



## drizek

I need it for my digital piano software.

 It works when I do 7.1 output, but shows beyond logic for the spdif 2.0 setting.


----------



## teenage kicks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gotcha... Have you followed the steps detailed in the first post, including using the particular driver version listed? No one here has mentioned that specific problem before. Try closing all unnecessary programs and processes before changing the setting._

 

Yep, using the same driver and settings mentioned in the OP. Tried closing all non-essential processes, didn't help. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Does the sampling rate even matter if you're only using the AV710 to provide an optical signal for a DAC? Would the AV710 do the resampling or the DAC?


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *teenage kicks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep, using the same driver and settings mentioned in the OP. Tried closing all non-essential processes, didn't help. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Does the sampling rate even matter if you're only using the AV710 to provide an optical signal for a DAC? Would the AV710 do the resampling or the DAC?_

 

So the Audio Deck won't let you click Auto sampling rate? When / where does the error message occur?

 I'm not sure if the drivers resample for the digital output if the 2 CH Hi-Sample Rate mode is selected. Maybe someone with Vista could chime in about that. If you're in regular 2 CH mode, it should be running at either 44.1 or 48 kHz.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drizek* 
_I need it for my digital piano software.

 It works when I do 7.1 output, but shows beyond logic for the spdif 2.0 setting._

 

You may be out of luck. From what I've read, ASIO4All, Vista, and Envy-based cards all hate each others' guts in terms of compatibility.


----------



## teenage kicks

Okay, I'm getting more weird errors. I managed to change the sample rate (had to unplug my speakers and headphones, doh), but when I change it, it slows down my audio, which also makes it deeper and distorted. I don't know if that's what it's supposed to do or not. I tried it out with a DVD and it was pretty clear that it's supposed to be 48KHz. Does this mean if I've been playing CDs at 48KHz all this time, I've been playing them faster than intended?

 Another problem is that I can't use ASIO4All or Kernel Streaming. In the ASIO4All settings, it says my card's output is unavailable. If I switch foobar to Kernel Streaming mode, it says "unable to open device". :|


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *teenage kicks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okay, I'm getting more weird errors. I managed to change the sample rate (had to unplug my speakers and headphones, doh), but when I change it, it slows down my audio, which also makes it deeper and distorted. I don't know if that's what it's supposed to do or not. I tried it out with a DVD and it was pretty clear that it's supposed to be 48KHz. Does this mean if I've been playing CDs at 48KHz all this time, I've been playing them faster than intended?

 Another problem is that I can't use ASIO4All or Kernel Streaming. In the ASIO4All settings, it says my card's output is unavailable. If I switch foobar to Kernel Streaming mode, it says "unable to open device". :|_

 

That's totally weird... Almost sounds like a hardware problem or conflict to me. Most DVDs are 48 kHz, yes. No, if you feed the drivers a 44.1 kHz signal and they're set to 48 kHz, they will just perform not-so-good resampling on the signal to match the right rate. The resampling process uses interpolation or decimation (adding or subtracting samples) in order to keep the actual time the same.

 The "unable to open device" error message with KS is a clear indicator that the drivers are not set to the proper sampling rate (Auto 44.1/48 kHz). KS will only work when everything is configured properly.

 If you had installed a different driver version before, you might consider uninstalling all of your sound drivers and doing some registry clean-up if you feel comfortable with it. Then you'll have a better chance of performing a fresh driver install.


----------



## teenage kicks

Okay, thanks. That helped, I ran a registry cleaning program and rebooted, now Kernel Streaming outputs fine.

 Only one problem left now: analogue output to my desktop speakers works fine, but I can't get a signal out of the optical port to my DAC. SP/DIF is enabled in the menu, but I'm still getting nothing out of my DAC. Is there some digital output step in foobar I forgot about?

 I really appreciate this help by the way, infinitesymphony.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *teenage kicks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Only one problem left now: analogue output to my desktop speakers works fine, but I can't get a signal out of the optical port to my DAC. SP/DIF is enabled in the menu, but I'm still getting nothing out of my DAC. Is there some digital output step in foobar I forgot about?_

 

No, the drivers should be responsible for output routing. Also note that your DAC won't be able to decode surround content unless it's a home theater receiver or processor (but you probably already knew that). If it's just regular two-channel audio, I'm not sure what the problem could be if the digital output is enabled in the Audio Deck. I've never used the AV-710's optical output before, but perhaps someone else can chime in.


----------



## teenage kicks

Hm. I'm not trying surround, it's just normal 2-channel audio from a CD.


----------



## drizek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You may be out of luck. From what I've read, ASIO4All, Vista, and Envy-based cards all hate each others' guts in terms of compatibility._

 

In that case, how does the sound quality of the ALIEN compare to the AV710?


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drizek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In that case, how does the sound quality of the ALIEN compare to the AV710?_

 

That's a question for another thread... I haven't heard the Alien DAC, but judging by its parts, I'd guess it would be at somewhere around the same level. It's always tough to tell with sources, since the other equipment in your system may or may not synergize well with them.


----------



## Tequila

I just can't get Kernel streaming to work. I followed the guide but it keeps giving the following error: Unrecoverable playback error: KS output error: error opening device. I noticed that when this error is mentioned in this thread it is said that:

  Quote:


 The "unable to open device" error message with KS is a clear indicator that the drivers are not set to the proper sampling rate (Auto 44.1/48 kHz). KS will only work when everything is configured properly. 
 

But as far as I can see everything is set up right. I tried different driver versions, different foobar versions and various settings in foobar. Kernel streaming does function through the on-board sound card but not through the AV710. I can't disable on-board sound in the BIOS.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tequila* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just can't get Kernel streaming to work..._

 

What operating system?

 You might try uninstalling the AV-710 drivers, searching for and deleting the appropriate registry values (if you feel comfortable doing this--it may not be necessary), and trying again. Always remember the order: uninstall, reboot, cancel out of New Hardware Wizard, install the new drivers.


----------



## Tequila

Quote:


 What operating system? 
 

Windows XP.

  Quote:


 You might try uninstalling the AV-710 drivers, searching for and deleting the appropriate registry values (if you feel comfortable doing this--it may not be necessary), and trying again. Always remember the order: uninstall, reboot, cancel out of New Hardware Wizard, install the new drivers. 
 

I just tried this again and it still won't work.

 There are no DSPs active either.

 Please take a look:

ImageShack - Hosting :: av710driversetupdc5.jpg

ImageShack - Hosting :: foobaroutputbd9.jpg


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tequila* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please take a look:

ImageShack - Hosting :: av710driversetupdc5.jpg

ImageShack - Hosting :: foobaroutputbd9.jpg_

 

I see that the current rate is listed as 48 kHz -- try setting the drivers to 44.1 kHz instead of Auto. You might also try setting Foobar's output to 24-bit instead of 32-bit, but this shouldn't be a problem.


----------



## Tequila

Quote:


 I see that the current rate is listed as 48 kHz -- try setting the drivers to 44.1 kHz instead of Auto. You might also try setting Foobar's output to 24-bit instead of 32-bit, but this shouldn't be a problem. 
 

I tried both suggestions but it still won't work. I still get the same error message.


----------



## Tequila

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tequila* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried both suggestions but it still won't work. I still get the same error message._

 

Never mind, it finally works !. Apparently the driver audio deck didn't actually adjust the output when I changed a setting. I have to restart the program every time I adjust something for the change to take effect. I found this out when I connected more speakers, changed the setting in audio deck and didn't get any sound from the speakers.

 Thanks for your help infinitesymphony !.


----------



## wallstreet

For the record I had a similar problem getting the WASAPI output in foobar to work (using Windows Server 2008 sp1). After switching to the 2 channel hi-sample rate in the via audio deck, I had to exit the deck and change the sample rate to 96khz using windows.

 To do this go to control panel -> sound -> Digital Output Device 'Envy24 Family Audio Controller WDM' : click 'Properties' then select the 'Supported Formats' tab. You should select 96khz from the sample rates and click apply.

 The only thing left it to select the WASAPI output in foobar (via Envy24 spdif). Of course make sure that the re-sampler DSP is loaded and set to output 96khz.

 Note: This problem with the envy audio deck could be because I normally run as a standard user. I had tried running the deck as an Admin, but it still didn't want to update ... probably due to some local security setting.


----------



## RockCity

Hi Infinitesymphony, am I doing this right?

 Hi-Sample Digital Out (96) *-->* S/PDIF Out (optical) *-->* Oritek OMZ DAC *-->* RCA/RCA *-->* Amp *-->* Headphones

 You said that Envy resamples to 96 regardless in Vista. Will it degrade the signal to my DAC? Is there anyway I can bypass the DAC/amp on the Chaintech altogether and get bit-perfect transport? I'm currently using Vista 64 and 5.40 Audio Deck driver.

 If anyone is using Vista and can walk me through it, I will greatly appreciate it.


----------



## infinitesymphony

The sound card doesn't force resampling, Vista does. I'm not sure if there's a way to get bit-perfect digital output using this card and Vista since I'm more familiar with the analog side and XP, so hopefully someone else can chime in.


----------



## PascalT

Should i be using 24-bit output with Foobar using the Chaintech? I am using Vista.

 Chaintech -> SPDIF -> DAC -> AMP -> HD650

 Using 96khz resampling since like you said apparently it resamples anyway under Vista.


----------



## FallenAngel

Well, is your content 24bit? Does your DAC allow for 24bit / 96kHz input?

 It seems that a lot of people really don't understand what the bit-depth resolution is.

 Think of a train. The train has cars. The cars can carry a load.

 Now the train is the digital stream. The number of cars is the bit-depth resolution (16 bits, 24 bits or 32 bits per train). If your data (load) is only 16 bits, why do you want to use a train with 24 cars? It makes no sense.


----------



## PascalT

My .flac files are 16-bit. So that solves it eh? My DAC can do 24/96 but doesn't matter.

 I did notice a pretty big difference in SQ when i resampled to 96khz in foobar. If Vista does indeed resample on its own to 96khz, it meant the data was going from 44.1khz (file) -> 96khz (Vista) -> 44.1khz (Foobar)?

 It definitely sounds better at 96khz in any case.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Most people select 24-bit or 32-bit playback in Foobar to avoid dither. It does not actually affect the bit-rate--16-bit will be passed as 16-bit. Realistically, it doesn't matter unless you are playing back 24-bit or higher bit-rate content.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* 
_If your data (load) is only 16 bits, why do you want to use a train with 24 cars? It makes no sense._

 

Because 24 cars can carry 16 car loads, but the reverse is not true.


----------



## ericj

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, is your content 24bit? Does your DAC allow for 24bit / 96kHz input?

 It seems that a lot of people really don't understand what the bit-depth resolution is.

 Think of a train. The train has cars. The cars can carry a load.

 Now the train is the digital stream. The number of cars is the bit-depth resolution (16 bits, 24 bits or 32 bits per train). If your data (load) is only 16 bits, why do you want to use a train with 24 cars? It makes no sense._

 


 When you push a 16-bit PCM stream at a 24-bit DAC it generally means that the 16-bit stream gets padded with 8 positions of zeroes. 

 Depending on the behavior of the DAC when it's in it's 16-bit mode, it MAY have better noise specs when the stream is padded out than when it's running 16 bit without the padding. 

 Difference should be minimal, though. 

 Similar deal with upsampling. you MAY increase the SNR when you run the DAC at it's top speed. This is the general theory behind some new DACs like the ESS Sabre that run just as fast as they can. The idea, roughly, is that there is less audible switching noise when the switching rate is faster. 

 Sample rate conversion raises a whole other can of worms, though, which i don't feel like explaining here. search for 'nyquist' and 'aliasing'.


----------



## PascalT

I just installed the Foobar WASAPI plugin and it made a huge difference in my sound over KS. I'm guessing all this time i never truly had bit-perfect output because it's a very noticeable improvement on all levels.


----------



## andrew3199

Hey guys.
 I had my Chaintech set up and running very well out of my old PC ( Windows XP.) I have now installed the soundcard in my new PC ( Windows Vista 64. ) Now my PC will not recognize the card 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...Any ideas?


----------



## andrew3199

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *andrew3199* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys.
 I had my Chaintech set up and running very well out of my old PC ( Windows XP.) I have now installed the soundcard in my new PC ( Windows Vista 64. ) Now my PC will not recognize the card 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...Any ideas?_

 

O.K I reinstalled the AV710 and still no luck. The soundcard is not showing up. Any thoughts?


----------



## Seaside

Your computer should at least recognize it even if it can not identify what it is. Check control pannel to see if it is recognized under question mark as an unidentified device.

 If it can't recognize the card at all, it sounds like... the card is not seated at slot correctly. Make sure you press the card firmly to secure it properly. You may want to move the card to different slot, and see if this solve recognition problem.

 Then, you will need a driver for vista 64. I think there's vista driver at viaarena.com.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Vista 32-bit and 64-bit use the same driver pack, which is linked in the first post. I just updated the post with the new version, v5.40a.


----------



## andrew3199

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seaside* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your computer should at least recognize it even if it can not identify what it is. Check control pannel to see if it is recognized under question mark as an unidentified device.

 If it can't recognize the card at all, it sounds like... the card is not seated at slot correctly._

 

Nada! It's showing nothing in the control panel. Looks like I have to get the screwdriver out again.
 Thanks for the reply.


----------



## jayray999

Hi Infintesymphony,

 Thanks for this thread. I have everything up and running for XP and Foobar. But here is what might be a silly question: could I have 2 AV-710s in one PC. I mean could I have one running per your settings and another flashed for bit-perfect S/PDIF. That way I could use the first card with a headphone amp and get the best of the WOLFSON DAC. And the second (flashed one) could feed my YAMAHA receiver.

 Thanks again.


----------



## infinitesymphony

My guess is that Windows would be okay with it, but the drivers would not. Maybe if you put one card in and flash it with the other firmware first, they will play nice. There's no way to know for sure without trying it.


----------



## jayray999

That's what I was planning to do. Ok I will try once I get my second card which is in the mail. Then I will post back here.


----------



## jarthel

just wondering why is it being being recommended to use the "surround" jack when it seems the Wolfson are only available on the front channels?

 thank you


----------



## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jarthel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just wondering why is it being being recommended to use the "surround" jack when it seems the Wolfson are only available on the front channels?

 thank you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Because the Wolfson DAC is on the "surround" jack.


----------



## jarthel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Because the Wolfson DAC is on the "surround" jack._

 

ok. I was reading a av710 review from one of those PC review sites and they mentioned the Wolfson is connected to the front.


 thanks for clarifying the connection


----------



## jarthel

is there any reason why people flashed their AV710 to prodigy?

 The only reason I can think of is to use ASIO-capable Audiotrak drivers? (I'm assuming the generic Via drivers doesn't have ASIO?)

 thanks again


----------



## infinitesymphony

Flashing it to Prodigy firmware is only useful for better digital output support (i.e. ease of getting bit-perfect digital output). The downside is that flashing the card to other firmware disables the analog outputs.


----------



## jarthel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The downside is that flashing the card to other firmware disables the analog outputs._

 

I assume that only the TOSLINK will be the only output after flashing. right?


----------



## MrKazador

Right. IMO its worthless to flash, with the 4.73 drivers you can output bit perfect and use the alt jack.


----------



## jarthel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrKazador* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Right. IMO its worthless to flash, with the 4.73 drivers you can output bit perfect and use the alt jack._

 

unless you want to use an external dac. perhaps?


----------



## Traddad

My AV-710 is in the midst of committing suicide (it has the much talked about death screech). Could I safely configure it as an optical out only?


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Traddad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My AV-710 is in the midst of committing suicide (it has the much talked about death screech). Could I safely configure it as an optical out only?_

 

Couldn't hurt to try, if you have an external DAC. I might have heard the "death screech," but didn't realize it was a widespread problem. Any static blasts I've heard eventually went away.


----------



## Guest5

For a long time now I've been using the 473b drivers, but I never figured out how to configure the foobar2000 in one spot. 

 Can you please look at the screen-shot and tell me what setting should I use in the "Output Data Format" when using Wolfson DAC to 44.1/48kHz. I was using 16bit all along, but the default specs of the Wolfson DAC is 24bit/96Khz isn't it?, so I really don't know how it is correct and I would like to know.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Set it to 24-bit or 32-bit. Padding to a higher bit-depth will avoid the use of dither, and it will allow non-resampled playback of 24-bit files. But realistically, if you're only playing music from CDs, it will make no difference.


----------



## Guest5

I've got one more question. How do I use the true/clean line-out from Wolfson DAC when using through the green jack(for use with a dedicated amp)? I think I need to switch some jumpers on the board, but I don't know what are those and where to move them. Can you help?


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Guest5* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've got one more question. How do I use the true/clean line-out from Wolfson DAC when using through the green jack(for use with a dedicated amp)? I think I need to switch some jumpers on the board, but I don't know what are those and where to move them. Can you help?_

 

You can't use the Wolfson DAC with the green output jack. As far as I know, only the VIA DACs play through the green jack. If you're using a dedicated headphone amp, you'll want to use the black jack anyway; it's a line output, whereas the green jack / VIA DACs have built-in headphone amplification.


----------



## Guest5

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can't use the Wolfson DAC with the green output jack. As far as I know, only the VIA DACs play through the green jack. If you're using a dedicated headphone amp, you'll want to use the black jack anyway; it's a line output, whereas the green jack / VIA DACs have built-in headphone amplification._

 

I thought that using 473 drivers I could get the wolfson DAC to play via the green jack. That's because I want it to sound 44.1Khz naturally. The sound is great and I never thought that was actually the VIA DAC. I am planing to get an amp very soon, thank you for the info. The problem is whenever I use the black output on XP the sound tends to disappear and never gets back on. That's with the new drivers. With 473b the channels are not balanced if I move the volume slider, that's frustrating. Thank you VIA.


----------



## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Guest5* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought that using 473 drivers I could get the wolfson DAC to play via the green jack. That's because I want it to sound 44.1Khz naturally. The sound is great and I never thought that was actually the VIA DAC. I am planing to get an amp very soon, thank you for the info. The problem is whenever I use the black output on XP the sound tends to disappear and never gets back on. That's with the new drivers. With 473b the channels are not balanced if I move the volume slider, that's frustrating. Thank you VIA._

 

Uhm... black output jack - Wolfson DAC, all others are VIA. It's not a matter of being able to play it, it's a fact of the Wolfson DAC being connecting physically to that one jack while VIA chips are connected to others.


----------



## Guest5

I think I got it. The black jack sounds surprisingly!! weak indeed, yet there is sterility and easy flow. I don't need to touch the volume slider on it anyway since I'll be using an amp. I'll get my amp in a couple of days and see if my expectations meet, according to many audio enthusiasts the AV710 should sound wonderful when amped properly.


----------



## MCC

Just a note- if you're using Vista, use the WASAPI plugin instead of KS/ASIO. WASAPI is an official Microsoft interface that allows Foobar to take control of the soundcard, bypassing the mixer for bit-perfect output. It works similarly to KS but in a much less hackish way.

 Edit: WASAPI adds some lag to the volume control but you should never use a digital volume anyways (unless you're padding with 0s- aka 16bit to 24bit)


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MCC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just a note- if you're using Vista, use the WASAPI plugin instead of KS/ASIO. WASAPI is an official Microsoft interface that allows Foobar to take control of the soundcard, bypassing the mixer for bit-perfect output. It works similarly to KS but in a much less hackish way.

 Edit: WASAPI adds some lag to the volume control but you should never use a digital volume anyways (unless you're padding with 0s- aka 16bit to 24bit)_

 

Is 16-bit/44.1 kHz via Wolfson DAC possible when using Foobar's WASAPI plug-in?


----------



## MCC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is 16-bit/44.1 kHz via Wolfson DAC possible when using Foobar's WASAPI plug-in?_

 

I don't think it is. The driver only seems to want to provide a 96/192KHz interface for that chip.


----------



## TehNomad

Anyone have success installing the 5.40a drivers on Windows 7? I can install it under Vista compatibility mode, but it doesn't playback sound.


----------



## Guest5

If I want to play games using chaintech what settings should I use in the driver CP? I know onboard sound takes power from the CPU for sound processing, what about chaintech, does it process the sound itself like the creative cards, or does it rely on CPU as well(in games)? What does AC3 only setting do?


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Guest5* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I want to play games using chaintech what settings should I use in the driver CP? I know onboard sound takes power from the CPU for sound processing, what about chaintech, does it process the sound itself like the creative cards, or does it rely on CPU as well(in games)? What does AC3 only setting do?_

 

Use the settings from the OP unless you want surround-sound, but if that's the case you won't be able to use the Wolfson DAC. The AV-710 has minimal EAX support, so most of the processing is done via software (CPU). The overhead for this is minimal, and most people who switch to something like a X-Fi only see a few FPS of improvement.

 AC-3 is another name for Dolby Digital. I think that setting only applies to the digital output.


----------



## Guest5

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Use the settings from the OP unless you want surround-sound, but if that's the case you won't be able to use the Wolfson DAC. The AV-710 has minimal EAX support, so most of the processing is done via software (CPU). The overhead for this is minimal, and most people who switch to something like a X-Fi only see a few FPS of improvement._

 

I thought EAX is something that has to do with Creative cards only(maybe I am mistaken). Chaintech doesn't have any EAX, at least I who am familiar with it(audigy 2 user in the past) don't see/hear it in the chaintech card. Still I logically think that if Chaintech has a standalone chip on it(VIA Envy24) it does all the job processing anysound whatsoever in videogames. 

 I don't have a creative card now, but I am sure that with AV710 I gain few fps in games, like Far Cry 2 and is most noticeable when a lot of sounds are being played at once. But there is a downside... the onboard(alc888 in my case) has a bit better 3d sound in games in my opinion. But I like the sound quality of the AV710 much and the extra fps, too bad I was starting using it just now(I was keeping it only for music as a second card). Time to unwind and put on there some fresh sound into my videogames. Thanks for the help..


----------



## infinitesymphony

Oh, yes, having a dedicated sound card versus onboard will help--the sound card will always do the basic processing. I was just referring to the EAX portion, which is hardware-accelerated on Creative cards. You're right that Creative is mostly responsible for EAX these days, but many other cards support some of the more primitive EAX modes like 1 or 2 via software, which is reliant on the CPU.


----------



## Guest5

I just found a pretty good deal on a ESI Juli@... the problem is(well at first it seems a problem alright) it has the same chip Envy24, will it work flawlessly with Chaintech Av710 in my computer, so that I could use them both(not at the same time of course)? Chaintech will be used with a hp amp+ AKG 240, the ESI Juli@ with a set of good Hi-Fi speakers+amp.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Guest5* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just found a pretty good deal on a ESI Juli@... the problem is(well at first it seems a problem alright) it has the same chip Envy24, will it work flawlessly with Chaintech Av710 in my computer, so that I could use them both(not at the same time of course)? Chaintech will be used with a hp amp+ AKG 240, the ESI Juli@ with a set of good Hi-Fi speakers+amp._

 

It may not work if you use the same drivers, but it might if the ESI Juli@ has a different set. The only way to know for sure is to try them in your system and see. I'm using an E-MU 1212M and an 0404 USB at the same time on this computer without issues. Windows should have no problem addressing the cards separately as long as the drivers don't get in the way.


----------



## Guest5

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It may not work if you use the same drivers, but it might if the ESI Juli@ has a different set. The only way to know for sure is to try them in your system and see. I'm using an E-MU 1212M and an 0404 USB at the same time on this computer without issues. Windows should have no problem addressing the cards separately as long as the drivers don't get in the way._

 

Yes, it will work hopefully. I will report back when I get it though.


----------



## Guest5

Hi. I got myself a brand new 0404 PCI instead of the Juli@ and I'm very happy with it I must say and although I've never heard the Juli@ some people report that the newer versions/revisions of Juli@s sound not as good as the latest revision of 0404 PCI on AKM4395 DAC which I have BTW. All I can say is that it sounds significantly more open and natural than AV-710's Wolfson DAC, with good recordings it is very evident. So yeah... I'm happy, the drivers are not very complicated like many say too.


----------



## Saulous

HELLO ALL! *With Vista 64bit you can get bit perfect 44k 16bit output both Wolfson black analog out and spdif when using xp64 newest drivers with 2-ch output with Vista 64bit drivers audio deck*, and you don't have to re-enable output after S3 resume like when using 96k 24bit using Vista newest drivers with Vista 64bit drivers audio deck. BUT I don't know about the quality as with the test tone "UDIAL.APE" the end of the signal is not totally clean (don't find the correct word for this) and none resampling done with Foobar/Winamp affects to this. BUT it is 44K and it works after S3 so right now as I am not buying a new sound card I will use this. Would have used the 96/24bit with clean udial and great sq (I have not listened much with this 44k setup, using Genelec 8020 pair and Senn hd650 with CMoy) but that S3 resume bug was awful, this is better now. The spdif udial is clean, though.


----------



## finallygreen

Hello,

 If I have this card installed in WinXP and plan to use the S/PDIF output, is there any reason to use anything other than the current (5.40a) driver? I've read several pages of this thread, and unless I'm mistaken, the benefits described here don't really apply to the S/PDIF jack....but I thought I'd ask just to be safe


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *finallygreen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello,

 If I have this card installed in WinXP and plan to use the S/PDIF output, is there any reason to use anything other than the current (5.40a) driver? I've read several pages of this thread, and unless I'm mistaken, the benefits described here don't really apply to the S/PDIF jack....but I thought I'd ask just to be safe 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No, the current drivers should be fine. But if you want even more functionality for the digital output, consider flashing the card with Audiotrak Prodigy firmware. I haven't tried it but it's detailed in a few threads in this sub-forum.


----------



## Hazaro

InfiniteSymphony I'd just like to thank you again for your help.

 I signed on a few months back and read your PM's for guidance since my little AV-710 had to be reinstalled.


----------



## MrKazador

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *finallygreen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello,

 If I have this card installed in WinXP and plan to use the S/PDIF output, is there any reason to use anything other than the current (5.40a) driver? I've read several pages of this thread, and unless I'm mistaken, the benefits described here don't really apply to the S/PDIF jack....but I thought I'd ask just to be safe 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 I use 4.73b drivers and can get bit-perfect output through SPDIF with WinXP. Why update when it works perfectly fine


----------



## decayed.cell

Okay I managed to get the Wolfson doing 48Khz on Windows 7 without installing Envy Driver

 I installed ASIO4All, and used the following settings. 





 The trick is to put the Windows Audio Deck into 5.1 Mode, it maps the Wolfson out to Side Left and Side Right.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okay I managed to get the Wolfson doing 48Khz on Windows 7 without installing Envy Driver_

 

Do you mean 44.1 kHz? Otherwise most audio will be resampled.


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you mean 44.1 kHz? Otherwise most audio will be resampled._

 

I couldn't get it to work with 44.1Khz because the Windows Deck doesn't let you choose it as an option. The lowest is 16-Bit 48000Hz

 EDIT: Hmm I've now disabled the PPHS resampler I think that I had going, and also the 44.1 to 48Khz box in the ASIO configuration panel. I guess its 44.1 now? lol


----------



## oc613

...


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Saulous* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HELLO ALL! *With Vista 64bit you can get bit perfect 44k 16bit output both Wolfson black analog out and spdif when using xp64 newest drivers with 2-ch output with Vista 64bit drivers audio deck*, and you don't have to re-enable output after S3 resume like when using 96k 24bit using Vista newest drivers with Vista 64bit drivers audio deck. BUT I don't know about the quality as with the test tone "UDIAL.APE" the end of the signal is not totally clean (don't find the correct word for this) and none resampling done with Foobar/Winamp affects to this. BUT it is 44K and it works after S3 so right now as I am not buying a new sound card I will use this. Would have used the 96/24bit with clean udial and great sq (I have not listened much with this 44k setup, using Genelec 8020 pair and Senn hd650 with CMoy) but that S3 resume bug was awful, this is better now. The spdif udial is clean, though._

 

I must have missed this the first time around. Can you use Foobar + Kernel Streaming to play back 44.1 kHz material?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oc613* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd like to get bit perfect working in vista, but I don't quite understand your post. Which drivers should I be using on Vista 64 to achieve this with my av710? Do you have a link?

 Thanks._

 

His post says to use the latest AV-710 drivers for XP 64-bit, which are here: AV-710 XP 64-bit 4.60b drivers.


----------



## oc613

...


----------



## TehNomad

Thanks decayed.cell, works like a charm.

 Is there any way to map it for games and such?


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TehNomad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks decayed.cell, works like a charm.

 Is there any way to map it for games and such?_

 

Not that I know of, unless you could somehow force ffdshow or something to take care of all the game audio formats and then map the outputs to side left and side right


----------



## zzbloopzz

Is this what it should look like with latest drivers for Vista x64?





 I seem to be having issues with latest foobar + WASAPI @ 800 MS. With WASAPI enabled it gives me the error message of:

 "Unrecoverable playback error: Could not open device: unsupported data format: 44100 Hz / 24-bit / 2 channels"

 However, if I change settings back to primary sound then it plays fine.

 What am I doing wrong? 

 Thanks!


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zzbloopzz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is this what it should look like with latest drivers for Vista x64?





 I seem to be having issues with latest foobar + WASAPI @ 800 MS. With WASAPI enabled it gives me the error message of:

 "Unrecoverable playback error: Could not open device: unsupported data format: 44100 Hz / 24-bit / 2 channels"

 However, if I change settings back to primary sound then it plays fine.

 What am I doing wrong? 

 Thanks!_

 

Try the PPHS Resampler to 96000Hz


----------



## infinitesymphony

Or wait until we hear back from Saulous and oc613, both of whom are trying to get bit-perfect 44.1 kHz in Vista x64 without ASIO4All.


----------



## zzbloopzz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Try the PPHS Resampler to 96000Hz_

 

Within Foobar I assume? I am a noob with this. Been using Winamp for YEARS. :c)

 I forgot to mention that for the settings, I have my AD-700's connected to the Black jack... not actually using the S/PDIF.

 Thanks!


----------



## PascalT

I think I read the SSRC resampler is actually better than the PPHS one. Try googling it.


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PascalT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think I read the SSRC resampler is actually better than the PPHS one. Try googling it._

 

Probably. zzbloopzz, does Vista x64 have its own driver for the AV-710? If so, perhaps my trick on Windows 7 will work - then again, I'm not sure if the driver will go down to 44100Hz, the one on 7 only goes to 48000


----------



## zzbloopzz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Probably. zzbloopzz, does Vista x64 have its own driver for the AV-710? If so, perhaps my trick on Windows 7 will work - then again, I'm not sure if the driver will go down to 44100Hz, the one on 7 only goes to 48000_

 

I must say I cannot recall. Was a while ago. I don't think it did but not 100% on that.

 If I mostly listen to 192+ VBR MP3's... will I even notice any difference?


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zzbloopzz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I must say I cannot recall. Was a while ago. I don't think it did but not 100% on that.

 If I mostly listen to 192+ VBR MP3's... will I even notice any difference?_

 

The only person that can answer that is yourself haha


----------



## infinitesymphony

Can anyone confirm that 44.1 kHz audio works with KS / WASAPI in Vista x64 with the XP x64 drivers?


----------



## pod_

hi guys, first post here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I got this soundcard coming and I'm gathering info to set up my pc.
 Just one question:
 after enabling the Black Surr (alt out) to work with the wolfson DAC, does it work like a "normal line out" without any pre-amplification?
 since my amp is broken I'm trying to understand if I can drive my alessandro ms1 directly from the black surr or if I need the amp to be repaired asap.
 thanks a lot


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pod_* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi guys, first post here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I got this soundcard coming and I'm gathering info to set up my pc.
 Just one question:
 after enabling the Black Surr (alt out) to work with the wolfson DAC, does it work like a "normal line out" without any pre-amplification?
 since my amp is broken I'm trying to understand if I can drive my alessandro ms1 directly from the black surr or if I need the amp to be repaired asap.
 thanks a lot_

 

You have to change the jumpers on the board to speaker. Putting them on headphone enables the onboard amp afaik


----------



## pod_

mhh, so I guess the onboard amp is not that good, but at least there's going to be something to listen to.
 I think I'll have to stick with it until I get my amp repaired.
 thank you very much!


----------



## amdscooter

Howdy all... first post. Read through the thread and guide but do not see anything about win2k. I'm installing the AV-710 into a pc I use in my garage for troubleshooting that is also hooked to a receiver, so I'd love to get it sounding better with the lowest possible cpu usage. I'm also far too cheap to boot for a copy of XP or Vista for the garage unit... that and some of the software I use only works correctly under win2k. Is there any way to get true 44.1 kHz audio from the Wolfson DAC in win2k? I know foobar support of win2k ended with v0.9.5, is this why there is no guide? 

 I am using the optical connection. I already tried flashing it with the Prodigy firmware. Flash went fine.. but the Audiotrak drivers continually freeze underwin2k. I tried them all.. very time consuming. Odd.. but there it is. Flashed it back to the original bios and installed the latest envy24 drivers and it works fine. Any help appreciated.


----------



## PascalT

I'm currently using Hi-Sample rate with my optical out connection to my DAC. Then in foobar I am using the upsampler to 96khz with 16-bit sound (My dac is 16-bit). I'm also using WASAPI on Vista 64. I'm wondering if these are the optimal settings?


----------



## infinitesymphony

amdscooter and PascalT, I'm not sure. This thread is geared towards optimal analog output. I've never used the AV-710's digital output.

 There is no guide for Windows 2000 because very few people are still using it (and I don't have a copy). If you can test the various driver versions and find one that allows bit-perfect 16-bit/44.1 kHz output, I'll add a section to the guide. Consider it bit-perfect when you can use Kernel Streaming with 16-bit/44.1 kHz.

 PascalT, there is a rumor that the XP x64 drivers work in Vista x64 and allow bit-perfect 16-bit/44.1 kHz output, but the two people who made the claim in this thread haven't confirmed it. Maybe you could give the XP x64 portion of the guide a try and report back.


----------



## PascalT

I don't see any info about it regarding optical output. I guess I want to know if it's possible to output from the optical without upsampling to 96khz? I don't see it as necessary since my music files are 44.1khz.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PascalT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't see any info about it regarding optical output. I guess I want to know if it's possible to output from the optical without upsampling to 96khz? I don't see it as necessary since my music files are 44.1khz._

 

As far as I know, Vista's audio stack resamples everything to 96 kHz by default, which is why I'm skeptical of the claims about bit-perfect 44.1 kHz audio in Vista with the AV-710. This is the point of using an upsampling plug-in: either upsample to 96 kHz before it hits the audio stack or Vista will resample it for you using questionable methods.

 Try uninstalling the Vista drivers and installing the XP 64-bit drivers. According to some people here, you will be able to get bit-perfect analog output, and by extension, bit-perfect digital output. I think the AV-710's drivers allow bit-perfect digital output by default; it's not necessary to flash the card with Prodigy drivers to get it (AFAIK). Most people flash the card because the Prodigy drivers are friendlier.


----------



## amdscooter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_amdscooter and PascalT, I'm not sure. This thread is geared towards optimal analog output. I've never used the AV-710's digital output.

 There is no guide for Windows 2000 because very few people are still using it (and I don't have a copy). If you can test the various driver versions and find one that allows bit-perfect 16-bit/44.1 kHz output, I'll add a section to the guide. Consider it bit-perfect when you can use Kernel Streaming with 16-bit/44.1 kHz.

 PascalT, there is a rumor that the XP x64 drivers work in Vista x64 and allow bit-perfect 16-bit/44.1 kHz output, but the two people who made the claim in this thread haven't confirmed it. Maybe you could give the XP x64 portion of the guide a try and report back. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks for the response. I found my OS freezing issue to be not related to the Envy or Prodigy drivers at all.. it was AMD Powernow that was causing the issues with the audio drivers. Once I disabled it in the BIOS and uninstalled the software no more issues. System Tyan thunder K8W/Dual Opteron 246/4GB PC3200ECC. Just sucks to have both CPU's going full bore when it's just being used to have foobar feed mp3's to my receiver. 

 Anyway.. back to the topic at hand..The winxp 32bit instructions you have posted up work fine to get the output through the Wolfson in win2k also. Now the issue is getting bit perfect (KS or ASIO) working correctly in foobar v0.9.4.5, which is the last version supported for win2k. I could not get it working so far with the 4.73b drivers. I'm using the "diatonis_dts_wav_secret-universe sample" as an acid test. So far I'm only getting a nice "hissing" from my Yamaha receiver when I try to play the file. 

 I'm on to plan "B" ATM. I've flashed to the Prodigy 7.1 firmware with the latest "unified" drivers v0_978 dated 04.05.2007. Foobar will run regular mp3's through ASIO and it's own KS component without crashing. But both only output "hiss" when I try to play the test file. The Foobar KS component does not have options to configure.... so at this point I'm left with few alternatives but to get ASIO up and running for bit perfect. At least it has "off-line" options. So far I'm not having any success with ASIO v2. Perhaps an earlier version will yield better results... I'm looking a that now. 

 And that's where I'm at up to this point. Your guide and the many pages of this thread have been *very* helpful. Thanks for your time. Even without bit perfect.. the sound still is pretty darn nice.

 ***EDIT***

 Also.. if anyone has the KS or ASIO component files for Foobar dated 10/07 I'd love to get them. I'm currently using the 8/06 files for both as they were all I could locate. TIA.. scoot.


----------



## amdscooter

^^^***UPDATE***

 Well I gave up on foobar and tried winamp. Took all of a few minutes to get it working. ASIO did not want to work properly even with the Prodigy having it's own ASIO support. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So I found this KS plugin: 

Winamp Kernel Streaming

 Installed it and am currently able to KS through winamp. The sample files sound great! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hmmm.. for some reason the img tag is not working for screenshots. I'll try to get the screenshots working properly later.

 Screenies added..


----------



## infinitesymphony

Nice work, amdscooter! I wonder why Foobar's KS plug-in wouldn't work... I'm not familiar with that DTS file, but if it's multi-channel, you may need to use Foobar's downmixing component for 5.1 -> 2.0. Either way, I'm glad you were able to get bit-perfect digital output.


----------



## amdscooter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice work, amdscooter! I wonder why Foobar's KS plug-in wouldn't work... I'm not familiar with that DTS file, but if it's multi-channel, you may need to use Foobar's downmixing component for 5.1 -> 2.0. Either way, I'm glad you were able to get bit-perfect digital output. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I got the DTS file here:

Free 5.1 Surround Sound DTS and AC-3 Downloads

 And your guess is spot on... both files I have been using as an acid test are 5.1. I'll have to locate some 2.0 files to test with and get Foobar's downmixing component working. My guess is that KS and ASIO in Foobar have been working properly all along (even with the Envy24 drivers prior to flashing to the Prodigy firmware) and I simply botched the test files... duh. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I did find it odd that the ASIO component in Foobar did not show up as a playback option until I loaded ASIO4ALL. 

 ^^Noob mistakes that I can live with as this stuff is all new to me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Breathed some new life into my years old budget sound card on a years old OS and came away with some really good sounding music. Thanks again for the great head start. Your XP 32bit instructions appear to be valid for win2k 32bit.


----------



## PascalT

Whatever I do I can't get the DTS file to work.. I just get static. I tried using the chaintech and different drivers under Vista 64. I also tried my onboard audio card and same result.. All my sounds are set to 44.1khz in Vista and I am using WASAPI in Foobar. 

 Really annoying


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PascalT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whatever I do I can't get the DTS file to work.. I just get static. I tried using the chaintech and different drivers under Vista 64. I also tried my onboard audio card and same result.. All my sounds are set to 44.1khz in Vista and I am using WASAPI in Foobar. 

 Really annoying 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You also need a DTS decoder
 foobar doesn't play DTS natively


----------



## PascalT

ah I see. It works now. does that confirm it's doing bit-perfect? thanks.


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PascalT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ah I see. It works now. does that confirm it's doing bit-perfect? thanks._

 

You'd have to connect it to a DTS Receiver and use the AV-710 as a transport, otherwise I think if you dump the output using the WAV writer and then compare it against the original file that should tell you if its bit perfect


----------



## MikoLayer

This is kinda odd. I moved my perfectly working av-710 from one vista 64 machine to another, and now the card won't play anything at all. With fb2k @24bit 96khz, the progress bar gets stuck with music playing: I can drag it around and the spectrum analyzer would update to that point only, but still nothing playing (with both the progress bar and the analyzer totally stagnant). 

 The machine is relatively clean with a fresh install of vista 64 SP1, though I did attempt installing the driver for the card using windows update at first without realizing I wouldn't be able get the envy control panel that way.

 Any suggestions?


----------



## infinitesymphony

It sounds like a driver issue. Have you tried uninstalling all audio-related drivers and installing the ones using the guide? You might try the XP 64-bit drivers; it's rumored that they will allow bit-perfect playback in Vista x64.


----------



## oohms

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Saulous* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HELLO ALL! *With Vista 64bit you can get bit perfect 44k 16bit output both Wolfson black analog out and spdif when using xp64 newest drivers with 2-ch output with Vista 64bit drivers audio deck*, and you don't have to re-enable output after S3 resume like when using 96k 24bit using Vista newest drivers with Vista 64bit drivers audio deck._

 

This method partly works in 64 bit vista.

 Method:

 Install the 5.40a vista 64 driver normally (running setup.exe)
 Restart
 Close the audio deck
 Go to device manager, find the card, manually "update" to the 4.60b XP64 driver
 Restart

 In the audio deck:
 2 channels (NOT high quality mode)
 SPDIF: PCM only, select 44.1

 Foobar: WASAPI (envy24 speakers)

 Most music will work bit perfectly since 44.1khz is the most common bitrate, but this will NOT work with music of a different bitrate.

 Im investigating other alternatives, including running the XP64 control panel, will keep you all posted


----------



## anonxlg

just bought this card (15 cdn) and installed it

 a few quick questions:
 is there any way to force the use of front (case) audio/mic without disabling the card's front l/r ports?
 is there a way to for 2channel sounds into the rear l/r speakers (universally)

 and when for things like winamp, you're usually given difference sound outs -> direct sound output, waveout output
 which one is the best

 and, it's really hard for me to balance the volume of everything; i tried my best to adjust the master volume and wave, but there are still some stuff that are way louder/softer then others


----------



## jarthel

Is there a real "line out" ports in the AV710 (real as in the same audio L/R connections (unbalanced outputs) on the back of standalone CD/DVD players). If yes, which one is it? Is it the black one?

 thank you very much for the help


----------



## MCC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jarthel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there a real "line out" ports in the AV710 (real as in the same audio L/R connections (unbalanced outputs) on the back of standalone CD/DVD players). If yes, which one is it? Is it the black one?_

 

The black output can be used as a line-out if you run it at full volume.


----------



## jarthel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MCC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The black output can be used as a line-out if you run it at full volume._

 

would it output bitperfect (bypass mixer) when using asio? thanks again


----------



## MCC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jarthel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_would it output bitperfect (bypass mixer) when using asio? thanks again_

 

I've never used ASIO- I use WASAPI instead, which is bitperfect. Maybe someone else can answer?

 My educated guess, though, would be that it is indeed bitperfect.


----------



## jarthel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MCC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've never used ASIO- I use WASAPI instead, which is bitperfect. Maybe someone else can answer?

 My educated guess, though, would be that it is indeed bitperfect._

 

are you using foobar wasapi plugin? thanks again


----------



## MCC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jarthel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_are you using foobar wasapi plugin? thanks again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes. using the latest version of Foobar with the WASAPI plugin for Windows Vista/7.

 I saw a guide that recommended setting a playback buffer below 1000ms when using that plugin but I'm running higher than that both with the AV710 and my laptop. 4 seconds on the desktop to prevent skipping when I'm doing a lot with the hard disk/maxing out all 4 CPU cores and 10 seconds on the laptop because it has an accelerometer feature that parks the hard disk when I move the machine. I've had no problems with either setup.


----------



## jarthel

how do I check if the output is bitperfect?

 thanks again


----------



## oohms

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oohms* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This method partly works in 64 bit vista.

 Method:

 Install the 5.40a vista 64 driver normally (running setup.exe)
 Restart
 Close the audio deck
 Go to device manager, find the card, manually "update" to the 4.60b XP64 driver
 Restart

 In the audio deck:
 2 channels (NOT high quality mode)
 SPDIF: PCM only, select 44.1

 Foobar: WASAPI (envy24 speakers)

 Most music will work bit perfectly since 44.1khz is the most common bitrate, but this will NOT work with music of a different bitrate.

 Im investigating other alternatives, including running the XP64 control panel, will keep you all posted_

 

As a followup, this method is still the best method so far.

 To make foobar behave with music of a different sample rate, i enable the resampler plugin set to 44100. This won't resample any 44100 songs, just anything which isnt. (So the player doesnt stop all the time)

 Since CD music is 44100, any decent rips should also be.


----------



## takt

Having troubles with Windows 7. Does this method work with it?


----------



## oohms

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Having troubles with Windows 7. Does this method work with it?_

 

I have only briefly tried, but i didn't get it working properly. I think we need an updated installer for win 7 (or modify the vista installer so it installs properly), then the XP driver hack might still work. If i find anything ill post here again.


----------



## MBM85

This method works in Windows 7. You just need to install the 5.40a drivers with compatibility mode.


----------



## infinitesymphony

The first post has been updated to include the Windows Vista 64-bit / Windows 7 workaround. Please let me know if something about it needs to be changed or reworded; I don't have either OS to test.


----------



## oohms

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MBM85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This method works in Windows 7. You just need to install the 5.40a drivers with compatibility mode._

 

I did this, and it works


----------



## oohms

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*[size=small]Windows Vista 64-bit and Windows 7[/size]*

 1. Install the card into a free PCI slot on the motherboard.
 2. Plug your amplification device (ex. speakers, receiver, etc.) into the black "Back Surr" jack on the back of the card next to the optical output. [Previous card revision: "Alt. Out"]
 3. Download the Envy24 Audio Controller Family Driver version 5.40a linked here.
 4. Use Windows XP compatibility mode to install it using Setup.exe (Application) in the Setup directory.
 5. Restart the computer.
 6. Open Device Manager (Windows key + Pause Break -> Hardware -> Device Manager), find the sound card, and manually update it to the 4.60b XP64 driver.
 7. Restart the computer again.
 8. Once the drivers are installed, open the audio control panel using its tray icon on the taskbar.
 9. Enable 2CH (not High Quality mode) by clicking the appropriate circle.
 10. In Foobar, select WASAPI (envy24 speakers) as the output device._

 

For step 4, vista64 can run it without setting compatibility mode, but for windows 7, compatibility mode needs to be set for vista SP2


 Also this method should work with 32 bit vista/windows 7, the only difference being that you need the 32 bit XP driver (link) and the 32 bit vista driver (link)

 (This hasn't been tested, but in theory should work the same)

 edit:
 You might also want to add this:
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oohms* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To make foobar behave with music of a different sample rate, i enable the resampler plugin set to 44100. This won't resample any 44100 songs, just anything which isnt. (So the player doesnt stop all the time)

 Since CD music is 44100, any decent rips should also be._


----------



## Graphicism

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*[size=small]Windows Vista 64-bit and Windows 7[/size]*

 1. Install the card into a free PCI slot on the motherboard.
 2. Plug your amplification device (ex. speakers, receiver, etc.) into the black "Back Surr" jack on the back of the card next to the optical output. [Previous card revision: "Alt. Out"]
 3. Download the Envy24 Audio Controller Family Driver version 5.40a linked here.
 4. Use Windows XP compatibility mode to install it using Setup.exe (Application) in the Setup directory.
 5. Restart the computer.
 6. Open Device Manager (Windows key + Pause Break -> Hardware -> Device Manager), find the sound card, and manually update it to the 4.60b XP64 driver.
 7. Restart the computer again.
 8. Once the drivers are installed, open the audio control panel using its tray icon on the taskbar.
 9. Enable 2CH (not High Quality mode) by clicking the appropriate circle.
 10. In Foobar, select WASAPI (envy24 speakers) as the output device._

 

Does this still apply? ~ I did a bit of a system clean up today (Vista 64) and reinstalled my soundcard drivers according to this and they don't work? Installing just the soundcard drivers works for my computer speakers however once I install Audio Deck for optical out (for the DAC) the computer speakers no longer work... under sounds they are set as default and the audio bar is showing audio is playing but I'm not hearing anything.

 Also there is no WASAPI setting in foobar, is this something else?

 Current settings:





**UPDATE: I ticked 'Hi sample rate digital output' (192k Hz) in Audio deck and now the sound is coming out both my speakers and my DAC... that can't be right can it?*


----------



## oohms

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Graphicism* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does this still apply? ~ I did a bit of a system clean up today (Vista 64) and reinstalled my soundcard drivers according to this and they don't work? Installing just the soundcard drivers works for my computer speakers however once I install Audio Deck for optical out (for the DAC) the computer speakers no longer work... under sounds they are set as default and the audio bar is showing audio is playing but I'm not hearing anything.

 Also there is no WASAPI setting in foobar, is this something else?

 Current settings:





**UPDATE: I ticked 'Hi sample rate digital output' (192k Hz) in Audio deck and now the sound is coming out both my speakers and my DAC... that can't be right can it?*_

 

read the post before yours.. the vista drivers have to be installed in vista sp2 compatibility mode if you use windows 7 (not XP compatibility mode)

 Once you have installed the vista drivers and 'updated' to the XP64 ones, you will see 44.1 and 48khz options instead of 192. Select 44.1 and use wasapi, and it will be bit perfect.

 also WASAPI is a separate addition to foobar that you download from the foobar website


----------



## Graphicism

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oohms* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_read the post before yours.. the vista drivers have to be installed in vista sp2 compatibility mode if you use windows 7 (not XP compatibility mode)_

 

I am using Vista so no problems with the install

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oohms* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Once you have installed the vista drivers and 'updated' to the XP64 ones, you will see 44.1 and 48khz options instead of 192. Select 44.1 and use wasapi, and it will be bit perfect._

 

I installed the 64 one right off the bat, I tried to update with this and it said I was already using the most up-to-date driver.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oohms* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_also WASAPI is a separate addition to foobar that you download from the foobar website_

 

Right I think I'll skip WASAPI and use Kernel streaming if I can.


----------



## zzbloopzz

Can anyone get the AV-710 to work on Windows 7 x64 RTM? The control panel keeps crashing for me, so much so that I am temporarily using onboard.

 It worked flawlessly for me on Vista x64. :c(


----------



## wallstreet

I'm using x64 Windows 7 RC build 7100 and can't even install 5.40a using compatibility mode (I've tried every version of Windows >= XP SP2). It's the installer that's failing with the error  Quote:


 Sorry, the install wizard can't find the proper component for the current platform. Please press OK to terminate the install wizard. 
 

Windows Update did install a driver for AV710 but it doesn't come with the control panel to change the output method. Maybe there is another way to get the Wolfson DAC output using the driver provided by Windows Update?


----------



## deusofhearts

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Graphicism* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I installed the 64 one right off the bat, I tried to update with this and it said I was already using the most up-to-date driver._

 

same issue here using vista 64, won't let me update since 5.40a is more current than 4.60b


----------



## Graphicism

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *deusofhearts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_same issue here using vista 64, won't let me update since 5.40a is more current than 4.60b_

 

Yeah it's still not perfect here; I installed the vista 64 driver and just left it at that, I have audio deck installed but it only works when I set high sample rate. Oddly enough sound comes out of my DAC and speakers simutaniously when I set the foobar output to speakers, when I set the output to digital it only comes out of my DAC and websites like Youtube with flash audio refuse to play... I'm not sure whats going on so I've just left it for now.


----------



## PascalT

You have to select "Let me browse my own files" or something to be able to select the driver file. I think it's "Have Disk..."

 When I install the xp64 drivers on Windows 7 I don't get the option for WASAPI: SPDIF anymore in Foobar. I just get WASAPI: Speakers. Any ideas?


----------



## takt

Using Win7 x64 RTM and followed the instructions in the first post. Works fine.

 Only problem is I must leave the setting to Auto in the audio deck. Won't work on 44.1 strangely (gives me endpoint errors in foobar). I have no idea if it is working through the wolfson on auto mode, 2 channels.


 EDIT: Step 6 is not very descriptive. 
 a) Download & extract (you may need a compression program, I used 7zip) the 4.60b XP64 drivers. 
 b) In device manager, under "Sound, video and game controllers", find the "Envy24 Family controller", right click, properties.
 c) Go to the "Driver" tab, click "Update Driver"
 d) Click "Browse my computer for driver software", browse to the location where you extracted the 4.60b XP64 drivers in step 6a.
 e) There will be two drivers in the next screen one with and without "64 bits" under the model field. (Info: the non "64 bits" version is actually the current driver 5.40a you installed in step 4, the "64 bits" version is the one you just browsed for in step 6d).
 f) It will ask you if you want to continue, hit yes and keep going; proceed to step 7.

 Hope this helps all of you with install problems in Windows 7 x64.

 Also, after you reboot, the WASPI field in the foobar output dropdown will appear (make sure you set the right one).


----------



## infinitesymphony

So, the same instructions work for Vista 64-bit, Windows 7 32-bit, and Windows 7 64-bit?


----------



## boskono

I'm on windows 7 x64 and I followed all the steps in the OP and on the last couple of pages, however I am not getting sound out of the black port next to the optical port. I can only get sound from the green port.





 Edit: I got it working! Here is an updated screenshot:


----------



## infinitesymphony

boskono, do any of the instructions need to be changed or clarified?


----------



## MikoLayer

7 RTM here, couldn't get the 5.40a driver set to install. Setup.exe quits abruptly with an error message: Could not locate supported hardware"

 What gives?


----------



## boskono

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_boskono, do any of the instructions need to be changed or clarified?_

 

Adding what takt said would be helpful.


----------



## zzbloopzz

boskono, what drivers are you using?


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boskono* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Adding what takt said would be helpful._

 

I updated the instructions with his changes a few days ago... Are there any other important settings that need to be mentioned?


----------



## zzbloopzz

Finally got it working on W7 x64 RTM! Followed instructions on first thread and works great. Key was to install in Windows XP SP2 compatibility mode, not SP3 which gives random errors for some reason.

 Edit: Having issues. When I am listening to foobar with WASAPI and go to a youtube video or watch a movie with Media Player Classic, the Windows Sound Service crashes and I have reboot to get sound again. If I use foobar with normal DS mode then it works just fine. Anyone else experiencing this?


----------



## zzbloopzz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I updated the instructions with his changes a few days ago... Are there any other important settings that need to be mentioned?_

 

For Step 4, I would recommend to right click Setup.exe and select "Run as Administrator". This is important for Vista/W7.

 I had issues on Step 9. I did not get the "There will be two drivers in the next screen one with and without "64 bits" under the model field." part. Instead it said that my existing drivers installed are fine which were the 5.40a.

 To correct it, after the "Browse my computer for driver software" section I had to select "Let me pick from a list of device drivers on my computer" at the bottom. Then click "Have Disk..." and navigate to the folder Drive:Envy24_Family_64 Bit Drivers_V460b\Envy24_Family_64 Bit Drivers_V460b\Drivers\AMD64 and select "Envy24HF". Now it shows the two items with 64 bits at the end. I selected the first one then it installed.

 I am using a fresh install of a genuine Windows 7 x64 RTM.


----------



## zzbloopzz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MikoLayer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_7 RTM here, couldn't get the 5.40a driver set to install. Setup.exe quits abruptly with an error message: Could not locate supported hardware"

 What gives?_

 

You need to right click Setup.exe and go to Properties > Compatibility then select Run in Windows XP (Service Pack 2) mode. Then hit OK. Now right click Setup.exe again and select Run as Administrator.

 Should work now.


----------



## zzbloopzz

On your second picture. You have "Enable audio enhancements" disabled under Signal Enhancements. Is there a reason for this as mine by default had this option Enabled.

 Thanks

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boskono* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm on windows 7 x64 and I followed all the steps in the OP and on the last couple of pages, however I am not getting sound out of the black port next to the optical port. I can only get sound from the green port.





 Edit: I got it working! Here is an updated screenshot:


_


----------



## boskono

No particular reason, it should work either way, as far as I know.


----------



## MikoLayer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zzbloopzz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You need to right click Setup.exe and go to Properties > Compatibility then select Run in Windows XP (Service Pack 2) mode. Then hit OK. Now right click Setup.exe again and select Run as Administrator.

 Should work now._

 

Thanks, but I used Vista SP 2 compatibility mode at first, per this suggestion by the OP
  Quote:


 4. Install it using Setup.exe (Application) in the Setup directory. (Note: For Windows 7, use *Vista SP2* compatibility mode.) 
 

Anyway, I tried XP SP2 compatibility mode to no good effect either before I posted that. Windows update sees the driver for it, so it can't be the faulty hardware.

 BIG EDIT: I installed the driver set that came thru windows update. Lo and behold, now the 5.40a driver installation goes through without any hiccups. Everything beyond that was fine, except I couldn't get either KS or WASAPI output device working in fb2k; directsound still works, and I am glad now I can use it with the wolfson DAC for videos using KMP. The card is on my main rig where I don't do any headphone listening, so I am pretty happy with how far I got with it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 EDIT 2: got a BSOD while installing a game patch with fb2k playing music in the background. This has been a stable, non-OC'd machine (for the time being) otherwise. The culprit is Envy24ht.sys, as shown clearly on the BSOD message.


----------



## MikoLayer

Havn't had BSODs ever since. 
 The error I get with WASAPI reads:
 Unrecoverable playback error: Endpoint creation failed (0x8889000F)

 DS still works though.


----------



## crispyambulance

I tried following the directions in this thread for Windows 7 64-bit, couldn't install the 540a version until I set compatibility to XP SP2 contrary to the OP. After I installed the drivers over the generic, working driver that Microsoft'd downloaded for me my sound stopped working, and then I tried installing the other version listed in the OP and it still didn't give me any sound, so I uninstalled all of my sound card's drivers/the actual device from the device manager, restarted, installed the generic Windows one again, restarted, and my sound still didn't work. I've spent the better part of the night trying different combinations of driver installs, removing my sound card from my case and a system restore to an earlier point in the night because I'd done so much tinkering with the drivers that I didn't have any restore points left that were from earlier and my sound still doesn't work. Would anyone have any ideas for something I could do? I feel like my only option is to reinstall the entire operating system.

 Edit: huh, I tried plugging some headphones directly into the sound card's green jack with the Windows drivers and get sound. I wonder if my receiver just conveniently died.

 Edit: OK, just pretend this post is asking has anyone been able to get output out of the back surround port in Windows 7 64-bit?


----------



## MikoLayer

Yeah, some of us have posted partial to complete success including myself. I just need to get the WASAPI or KS output working in fb2k.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Ah, I may have incorrectly relayed the information... I've changed 'Vista SP2' to 'XP SP2' in the OP.


----------



## garfnon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MikoLayer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Havn't had BSODs ever since. 
 The error I get with WASAPI reads:
 Unrecoverable playback error: Endpoint creation failed (0x8889000F)

 DS still works though._

 

I had the same problem. I had to change the sample rate from 48 to 44.1khz and it worked. Though for the longest time I couldn't make it budge from 48khz. FRAPS was somehow the culprit.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Keep in mind that sample rate can't always be changed if a card/interface is already locked onto a source. This might explain the FRAPS issue.


----------



## antikkk

hi guys

 im having a bit of problem setting this soundcard up using standard 6ch audio.

 i bought the card second hand so im not sure if its the way i have set it up or hardware damage.

 i have followed the intructions here for vista32.

 when everything is plugged in and setup correctly, i am not getting any audio from my front 2 speakers, all the other speakers are giving audio.

 speakers used to work fine with my old realtek on-board..


----------



## MCC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *antikkk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi guys

 im having a bit of problem setting this soundcard up using standard 6ch audio.

 i bought the card second hand so im not sure if its the way i have set it up or hardware damage.

 i have followed the intructions here for vista32.

 when everything is plugged in and setup correctly, i am not getting any audio from my front 2 speakers, all the other speakers are giving audio.

 speakers used to work fine with my old realtek on-board.._

 

I don't think you can use the black high quality plug in 6ch mode. Try the green one- the SQ won't be nearly as good though.


----------



## antikkk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MCC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think you can use the black high quality plug in 6ch mode. Try the green one- the SQ won't be nearly as good though._

 

yes i tried all the other jacks but I was not getting any audio from the front 2 speakers, any ideas anyone? or does it seem like a faulty card?


----------



## leeperry

.


----------



## antikkk

can someone tell me according to this picture which jack is the wolfson DAC?.. http://icrontic.com/draco/images/art...connectors.jpg


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *antikkk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_can someone tell me according to this picture which jack is the wolfson DAC?.. http://icrontic.com/draco/images/art...connectors.jpg_

 

Next to SPDIF so black one closest to the optical out


----------



## antikkk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Next to SPDIF so black one closest to the optical out_

 

so "alt out"..


----------



## zzbloopzz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *antikkk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so "alt out".._

 

yes..


----------



## Joshatdot

bump for awesomeness!


----------



## johan851

Thanks for the info and the links! I couldn't figure out my driver issue, and I was having a lot of trouble finding previous drivers to test out. Looks like the OP solved that for me. 

 I'm running Windows 7 64-bit, and my system thought I didn't have a default sound device (though Foobar worked fine). Every time I tried to launch a game the Windows sound service would reset. Works fine now.


----------



## khrono

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zzbloopzz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For Step 4, I would recommend to right click Setup.exe and select "Run as Administrator". This is important for Vista/W7.

 I had issues on Step 9. I did not get the "There will be two drivers in the next screen one with and without "64 bits" under the model field." part. Instead it said that my existing drivers installed are fine which were the 5.40a.

 To correct it, after the "Browse my computer for driver software" section I had to select "Let me pick from a list of device drivers on my computer" at the bottom. Then click "Have Disk..." and navigate to the folder Drive:Envy24_Family_64 Bit Drivers_V460b\Envy24_Family_64 Bit Drivers_V460b\Drivers\AMD64 and select "Envy24HF". Now it shows the two items with 64 bits at the end. I selected the first one then it installed.

 I am using a fresh install of a genuine Windows 7 x64 RTM._

 

im running 32 bit and i ran into the same problem i had to choose the have disk option but mine doesnt work when i select "Envy24HF" i get an error

 "The folder you specified doesnt contain a compatible software driver for your device"

 can anyone help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





?


----------



## listenCarefully

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*[size=small]Windows XP 32-bit[/size]*

 This is the guide to use if you're interested in getting true 44.1 kHz audio from the Wolfson DAC rather than using inferior and processor-intensive software resampling algorithms to upsample.

 1. Install the card into a free PCI slot on the motherboard.
 2. Plug your amplification device (ex. speakers, receiver, etc.) into the black "Back Surr" jack on the back of the card next to the optical output. [Previous card revision: "Alt. Out"]
 3. Download the Envy 24 Family Driver version 4.73b linked here and install it using Setup.exe (Application) in the Setup directory. This version is the last one to support the following trick:
 4. Once the drivers are installed, open up the Envy control panel using its tray icon on the taskbar.
 5. Click 2CH if it's not already selected (not 2CH Hi-Sample Rate).
 6. Go into the digital output section and enable S/PDIF output, selecting PCM as the sub-option. Click the Auto button under sampling rate.

 Done! You'll now be capable of using Kernel Streaming in Foobar to directly send 44.1 kHz and 48 kHz audio content through your sound card's Wolfson DAC.

 ----------_

 

I just found a Chaintech and am researching what I will need to set up while I wait for delivery.Up until now I've managed to avoid learning the ins and outs of PC audio by using a Squeezebox. Are the above instructions all there is. I thought one also needed to install Asio4all and Foobar, neither of which I know anything about (except that I recall reading that these are necessary). I've also heard that Winamp will also do the job instead of Foobar. Can anyone tell me something about these prerequisites (if they are indeed prerequisites) or point me to a thread that will fill me in?

 Thanx for any help you can give.


----------



## Sokichi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *khrono* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_im running 32 bit and i ran into the same problem i had to choose the have disk option but mine doesnt work when i select "Envy24HF" i get an error

 "The folder you specified doesnt contain a compatible software driver for your device"

 can anyone help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




?_

 

If your are using Windows 7 32, in the 6 step,try with this driver "473b" http://www.viaarena.com/Driver/Envy2...ller_v473b.zip.
 Others steps that work to me is: In Foobar use the resampler plugin in 44.100 and output at 16-bit and in the audio deck. PCM only and auto sample.


----------



## ride159

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sokichi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If your are using Windows 7 32, in the 6 step,try with this driver "473b" http://www.viaarena.com/Driver/Envy2...ller_v473b.zip.
 Others steps that work to me is: In Foobar use the resampler plugin in 44.100 and output at 16-bit and in the audio deck. PCM only and auto sample._

 

Just came to post this, on Windows 7 32-bit you can't use the 64-bit drivers linked in step 6. You should use the XP 32-bit v473b driver (this driver is linked in the "Windows XP 32-bit section").

 I'll send a PM to the OP to see if he can update the 32-bit instructions. (edit: PM sent)

 Sokichi, why are you using the resampler plug-in? Leaving "Auto" bitrate selected in Audio Deck works fine for me, is there another reason?


----------



## infinitesymphony

The original post has been updated to reflect *ride159*'s correction for Windows 7 32-bit setup. Thanks for that one, ride159. Let me know if what I've changed still needs to be fixed.


----------



## Jazz9

I don't have a chaintech but a fortissimo IV (envy24 too).
 I'm using win7 64 and installed everything, foobar with wasapi works just fine, same thing when I try to watch a movie but if I'm using foobar and launch a movie at the same time the computer acts like I don't have a sound card installed anymore...
 Is there a solution to this?
 It worked fine when I was using the onboard audio (acl888).
 Speaking of the onboard audio is there any difference compared with the soundcard or could I just use the onboard? (optical to zero dac)


----------



## uraflit

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jazz9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't have a chaintech but a fortissimo IV (envy24 too).
 I'm using win7 64 and installed everything, foobar with wasapi works just fine, same thing when I try to watch a movie but if I'm using foobar and launch a movie at the same time the computer acts like I don't have a sound card installed anymore...
 Is there a solution to this?
 It worked fine when I was using the onboard audio (acl888).
 Speaking of the onboard audio is there any difference compared with the soundcard or could I just use the onboard? (optical to zero dac)_

 

u might have to set your default playback device to the fortissimo IV

 when i installed my 0404 usb, i had the same exact prblem, then realized that thedefault playback device was set on "spidf out," had to change it back to 0404


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *uraflit* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_u might have to set your default playback device to the fortissimo IV

 when i installed my 0404 usb, i had the same exact prblem, then realized that thedefault playback device was set on "spidf out," had to change it back to 0404_

 

If you're playing something in foobar with WASAPI all other sounds i.e. DirectSound will not work


----------



## Jazz9

Oh that worked! Thanks uraflit.


----------



## johnanderson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jazz9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't have a chaintech but a fortissimo IV (envy24 too).
 I'm using win7 64 and installed everything, foobar with wasapi works just fine, same thing when I try to watch a movie but if I'm using foobar and launch a movie at the same time the computer acts like I don't have a sound card installed anymore...
 Is there a solution to this?
 It worked fine when I was using the onboard audio (acl888).
 Speaking of the onboard audio is there any difference compared with the soundcard or could I just use the onboard? (optical to zero dac)_

 

This has been happening to me too, except i have the chaintech. I just defaulted foobar to ds envy speakers. Less trouble to deal with until they figure out the wasapi thing. 

 Also i had trouble installing the 5.40a Envy24 Audio Controller in windows 7 64bit. I had to use the compatibility setting to vista sp2 in order to install it. I think this may be helpful to add on to the original post in case people run into trouble here.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnanderson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This has been happening to me too, except i have the chaintech. I just defaulted foobar to ds envy speakers. Less trouble to deal with until they figure out the wasapi thing. 

 Also i had trouble installing the 5.40a Envy24 Audio Controller in windows 7 64bit. I had to use the compatibility setting to vista sp2 in order to install it. I think this may be helpful to add on to the original post in case people run into trouble here._

 

From the OP in the Windows Vista 64-bit, Windows 7 32-bit, and Windows 7 64-bit section: "4. Install it using Setup.exe (Application) in the Setup directory. (*Note:* For Windows 7, use XP SP2 compatibility mode.)"

 Should this be changed to say 'Vista SP2 compatibility mode?'


----------



## johnanderson

I think it should say use vista sp2 compatibility mode if it doesnt work by just clicking the setup. I didn't try it with xp sp2 mode because it worked the first time using the vista mode. Maybe others will chime in with whether it works or not with xp sp2, but from one of the posts i read in this thread it seems that it doesnt.


----------



## drizek

So does this actually work properly in windows 7 now? I had it in Vista and it was terrible. It would cut out every time I put my computer in standby. foobar would work but if I tried to play a youtube video while foobar was running the sound would cut out. Nevermind all the issues with trying to use it with FL Studio.


----------



## oohms

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drizek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So does this actually work properly in windows 7 now? I had it in Vista and it was terrible. It would cut out every time I put my computer in standby. foobar would work but if I tried to play a youtube video while foobar was running the sound would cut out. Nevermind all the issues with trying to use it with FL Studio._

 

I've kinda given up on using my AV-710 in my windows 7 pc. It doesn't play nice with other sound cards at all, and it was kinda finnicky in general. I think ill put it in the old windows XP pc instead.


----------



## drizek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oohms* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've kinda given up on using my AV-710 in my windows 7 pc. It doesn't play nice with other sound cards at all, and it was kinda finnicky in general. I think ill put it in the old windows XP pc instead._

 

I ended up buying a nu-force uDAC. Its great, but maybe not as good a value as the AV710, and no 24/192 capability.


----------



## jstevanus

I have been working on this for days and I'm about to give up! I had this working before with Windows 7 (32-bit), but something changed and now I can't get any Dolby digital or DTS detected on my receiver. I'm running SPDIF from my Chaintech AV-710. I have tried multiple drivers (5.40a, 5.40f), and currently have 4.73b installed. I have AC3 filter installed, WM Classic, and have tried Zoomplayer, VLC Player, PowerDVD, and still no surround. I do have sound from my receiver, but it just isn't detecting the Dolby or DTS like it should be. I have read threads for hours and have tried just about everything. I know there is a trick to setting up the VIA "Audio Deck" control panel in order to get it to work, so maybe that's my only problem. If anyone could give me any help I would greatly appreciate it. Or, if anyone has a suggestion for a cheap, Win 7 compatible sound card with Toslink, that would probably be helpful too! Thanks again for everyone's help...

 Josh Stevanus


----------



## ascl

At risk of necro'ing an old thread (and for my first post!), I tried the steps listed and they didn't work for my Onkyo SE90 on Win7 x64 (I got distorted bad sound). However, these drivers worked perfectly:
ƒIƒ“ƒLƒˆ[Š”Ž®‰ïŽÐFPC ƒTƒEƒ“ƒhŠÖ˜A»•i>SE-90PCI@ƒ_ƒEƒ“ƒ[ƒh

 They are 5.40f which appears newer than whats available on via's site (5.40a), and work without any unusual steps on win7 x64. No idea if they work on other Envy24 cards or not, but might be worth a shot?


 EDIT: The link is in Japanese but points to the SE-90 driver page on the onkyo website.


----------



## najames

Great gobs of wasabi, this Japanese driver works!! It cruised right through the install flawlessly.

 I haven't tested the optical out, but can verify it works with Win7 Pro 64bit with my AV-710 on foobar2000 and Windows Media Player.

 Ichiban number one AV-710 Windows 7 driver, thanks!!


----------



## Graphicism

Oh good to know, I had given up on finding a fully working driver since upgrading my OS but I'll give this a try... hopefully it works with optical out!


----------



## najames

When I installed the AV-710 last weekend, I used the green jack on the back, outputting to my Logitech Z-340 2.1 speakers and the headphone jack on them to test the "foobar 5.1 headphone headphone experience". It was working fine per instructions here in bold.

*9. Enable 2CH (not High Quality mode) by clicking the appropriate circle.
 10. In Foobar, select WASAPI (envy24 speakers) as the output device.*

 Today, I read that the lower black port actually runs off the better Wolfson DAC, hmm. I went into the Envy control panel and switched the digital out to "S/PDIF out enable" and "PCM only", "2 channel Hi Sample Rate", and changed the sample rate to "96KHz". In foobar2000, there are 2 options for the "Envy 24 family audio controller WDM" (a) speakers (b) Digital audio (S/PDIF). I set it to the digital audio S/PDIF mode and now there is audio streaming out the lower black jack (haven't tried optical) port to my speakers and my 5.1 channel headphone mode still seems to work ok. 

 Are these the settings I should use?

 Next up, I have a early 90s Rotel RC-960BX preamp and RB-960BX amp, B&W DM610 speakers, excellent little 2 channel setup. Can I do this below in bold?
*
 AV-710 black port > 3.5mm to dual RCA jack cable > preamp > amp > B&Ws*

 I also have an old 5.1 channel Pioneer Elite VSX-24TX, could it be used instead? Thinking of a 2.1 setup or maybe even 5.1 if it works. 

 Another angle is just buying better powered PC speakers for WAF usage and use the old Logitech Z-340s elsewhere.

 Sorry for all the questions, wasn't sure if I should post this on the 5.1 head phone experience, which I really like by the way, or here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Update: Tonight I temporarily tested using the Rotel RC-960BX preamp / RB-960BX amp, B&W DM610 speakers setup as described above. Once I unplug the AV-710, I had to reboot to get foobar2000 to work again, then all was well. I am testing with 320 bitrate Tchaikovsky Nutcracker Suite music and noticed a couple times it sounded garbled a couple times for some reason, never noticed it using my Logitech Z-340s. I also noticed it sounds really smooth on the Logitechs, clear but a little harsh on the B&W setup for some reason. Not sure, maybe it is because I've gotten used to the Logitech setup, haven't used the other stuff in years.


----------



## c001m4n

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ascl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At risk of necro'ing an old thread (and for my first post!), I tried the steps listed and they didn't work for my Onkyo SE90 on Win7 x64 (I got distorted bad sound). However, these drivers worked perfectly:
ƒIƒ“ƒLƒˆ[Š”Ž®‰ïŽÐFPC ƒTƒEƒ“ƒhŠÖ˜A»•i>SE-90PCI@ƒ_ƒEƒ“ƒ[ƒh

 They are 5.40f which appears newer than whats available on via's site (5.40a), and work without any unusual steps on win7 x64. No idea if they work on other Envy24 cards or not, but might be worth a shot?


 EDIT: The link is in Japanese but points to the SE-90 driver page on the onkyo website._

 

This 5.40f driver works on Windows 7 x64 for AV-710 without using compatibility mode. You will be able to get 24bit/96kHz locked output, not bit-perfect. To get bit-perfect 16bit/44.1/48kHz output follow infinitesymphony's guide from step 5 after installing the 5.40f driver.

 Here are a couple tips for n00bs such as myself:
 Create a system restore point! It will save you a lot of headache if you screw up.
 Do not use the FRONT AUDIO pins, and do not remove the two jumpers

 In my case I spent 3 hours troubleshooting because the OS freezes everytime it tries to playback anything. I believe it was because at first I wanted to use front audio so I removed the jumpers, but didn't replace them after I thought it was causing problems. However, I also switched the PCI slot position so I am not 100% sure what was the problem.

 Thank you ascl for posting this working driver and infinitesymphony for the great guide!


----------



## ascl

Sorry to hear it doesn't work for bit perfect output for you. It does with my SE-90 (no auto option annoyingly, but I can select any freq and resolution).


----------



## leeperry

the 5.50A are out: Welcome to AUDIOTRAK Korea


----------



## JWFokker

5.50A are the first drivers that have worked for me with Windows 7. I _finally_ have multichannel sound being processed by the sound card instead of the CPU.

 Unfortunately I just purchased a refurbished X-Fi card through Amazon so this will only be useful until I receive the new card.


----------



## leeperry

it's a bummer that their release notes are confidential, you can never know what they fix in new builds...irritating


----------



## najames

Thanks, I installed the 5.50A, running out the black jack. It seems to sound the same for me. CPU usage is usually 3-5% now running foobar, I believe it was higher before. I'm running an AMD 5000 dual core in this box.

 Jim


----------



## infinitesymphony

So, is it safe to update the Windows 7 portion to the 5.50A drivers and remove all the stuff about compatibility modes? Are these drivers capable of bit-perfect stereo output at 44.1kHz?


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *najames* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Today, I read that the lower black port actually runs off the better Wolfson DAC, hmm. I went into the Envy control panel and switched the digital out to "S/PDIF out enable" and "PCM only", "2 channel Hi Sample Rate", and changed the sample rate to "96KHz". In foobar2000, there are 2 options for the "Envy 24 family audio controller WDM" (a) speakers (b) Digital audio (S/PDIF). I set it to the digital audio S/PDIF mode and now there is audio streaming out the lower black jack (haven't tried optical) port to my speakers and my 5.1 channel headphone mode still seems to work ok. 

 Are these the settings I should use?_

 

Not if you want bit-perfect audio. As the instructions say, don't use Hi Sample Rate and do select Auto for the sample rate. Right now you're upsampling to 96kHz.


----------



## Graphicism

I finally got around to installing the 5.50A drivers and confirm them work processing 16-bit WASAPI digital audio in Foobar but now I can't get my computer speakers to work, even for the likes of youtube?

 I'm running Win 7 64-bit


----------



## infinitesymphony

I don't know if WASAPI is like kernel streaming, but while KS is initialized, you can't listen to other DirectSound sources at the same time.


----------



## oohms

I have been using my AV710 with windows 7 x64 again, this time with 5.50A drivers, then "upgraded" to 4.60b.

 No issues whatsoever in games or playing music, and I have confirmed them to be bit perfect at 44.1 using wasapi (DTS test)


----------



## najames

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Graphicism* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I finally got around to installing the 5.50A drivers and confirm them work processing 16-bit WASAPI digital audio in Foobar but now I can't get my computer speakers to work, even for the likes of youtube?

 I'm running Win 7 64-bit_

 

Sorry if you already know this, but I worked with AV710 optical output last night and realized there is a direct correlation between settings in the Envy Control panel, foobar, and the jacks used on the AV710.

 For example, I couldn't get sound if I tried the last WASAPI digital S/PDIF selection in Foobar with opitcal output from the AV710, only got a 44.1KHz error. I realized I'd set the Envy panel to "Hi Sample" 96KHz/24bit. In foobar I added the resampler, reset it to 96KHz/24bit and I got sound, plus my old Pioneer Elite receiver displayed 96KHz on the display, nice verification. I could change back to 44.1KHz if I again matched settings in the Envy Control Panel and foobar. The Pioneer just displays the input selection, no sampling freq, at 44.1Hhz.

 So far sound quality is best in this order:
 AV710 optical > Pioneer Elite VSX-24TX (Burr Brown DACs) > AD700
 AV710 black jack > 3.5mm to RCA cable > Rotel preamp > AD700
 AV710 black jack > Logitech speakers or AD700 headphones
 AV710 green jack > Logitech speakers or IM-590 IEMs (didn't have the AD700 yet)

 Also at the top was Rotel 965BX CD player > Rotel preamp/amp, but of course I can only play CDs with this setup. I might test the Rotel CD digital > Pioneer VSX-24THX.

 My benchmark song is the 1960's Caterina Valente Greatest Hits "Ponciana". Her voice at about the 51 second mark sounds nasty except on 2 setups, either the Rotel CD player > Rotel preamp/amp or the AV710 optical > Pioneer Elite. I am glad my wife listens to this stuff, everyone should have this song to test with (warning: it might kill hard rockers and rappers). No bad equipment can hide from this song. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I even connected up a pair of B&W 610 speakers to the Pioneer and it also sounded really good to me with the AV710 optical > Pioneer Elite.

 Hmm, I might pull the AV710 and try the onboard digital sound output > Pioneer again, but video processing will consume me for a while first.


----------



## najames

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Graphicism* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I finally got around to installing the 5.50A drivers and confirm them work processing 16-bit WASAPI digital audio in Foobar but now I can't get my computer speakers to work, even for the likes of youtube?

 I'm running Win 7 64-bit_

 

I also noticed this. Last night I pulled out the AV-710 to compare the onboard optical, still no Youtube sound. I updated Java, reinstalled a newer version of Flash, and sound was restored to things like Youtube. However, if I have a Youtube session open while I have been listening to foobar, I have to refresh the Youtube page to get sound. This worked the same on a 3.5mm to RCA cable or optical into my receiver.


----------



## music_man

i prefer the upsampling. i think this is still a fine card for 2 channel audio. 

 if you install the 5.40f or 5.50a drivers you will not have the option of 192khz. install the 5.50f with the installer. then take the folder "envyadeck" from the extracted 5.40a folder and replace the envyadeck folder in in c:\program files\via\viaudioi with the folder from 5.40a. now you have 5.50a drivers with 192khz support.

 then i would use winamp with the mad input plugin. this will allow you to set the card to 32 bit depth. read the instructions. use the directsound output.

 i do not know if foobar lets you set the card to 32 bit.

 i think this is the best sq out of this card. ymmv.

 i am using 20k buffers with winamp in realtime and mad on high. cpu usage control is off. i have a very old cpu and it is only getting 2 to 4%.

 i must add i am listening to a 128kbps aacplus stream. with hq sources, 16/44.1 may indeed be much better. anyways for hq sources the top xonar should smoke this card. it is intresting this chipset is still used/supported after so many years. very odd for computer hardware.

 i hope this helps someone.

 music_man


----------



## zzbloopzz

The v5.50A's are great! I use to have this weird hissing noise for a year and I always thought it was my Fiio E5... turned out to be the drivers all along! :c)

 Just for record I am using Windows 7 x64. Just right click install and run as Admin. Go to S/PDIF in the Via sound manager and select Hi Sample Rate 2, and your good to go.


----------



## music_man

why can't i get 192khz button on the 550 adeck? i had to do as i stated above.

 thanks,
 music_man


----------



## music_man

anyone can help with this? i want to use the 5.50 adeck as well. audiotrack shows a bunch of features i don't have! what the heck is wrong?

 thanks,
 music_man


----------



## leeperry

I've got a contact at VIA's tech support, drop me a PM if you want her email....english is not her native tongue and she doesn't really understand anything, but worth a shot! I gave up trying to explain her about exclusive mode audio


----------



## music_man

thanks for the offer. i do not think no english is going to work lol. since we are discussing something technical as it is.

 my guess is somewhere in the new drivers it is not seeing this cards dsp unit as supporting those features. i will decompile it and see what i can do. i didn't even look if there is a setup.ini that could fix it right there if there is.

 if worse comes to worse, the 4.xx adeck runs fine with the 5.50 drivers. i was thinking i'd have something to gain but i don't know.

 it is amazing that they are still producing cards with the envy24(and writing drivers)! very unusual for computer hardware to have that longevity. the xonar hands down smokes this card though. it is also a different price. it is nice that it is available though.

 thanks,
 music_man


----------



## music_man

it is in the .inf in fact. however i cannot figure out how to modify it properly as of yet. the strange thing is that the old inf is exactly the same. so maybe it is indeed not in the inf. it doesn't really matter. the 4.xx a deck is the same. at least i have the 5.50 drivers working.

 this is still a good soundcard.

 music_man


----------



## music_man

if anyone is intrested. you can use the 5.50 driver with the 4.73b control panel. this may work in windows 7 to use asio.

 install the 5.50 with the installer. reboot. take the folder "envyadeck" out of the 4.73 package and drop it in program files. ymmv. 

 on xp you can install the 5.50,reboot. install the 4.73,reboot. go to hardware and update the driver from the list to the .3655 version.
 then you will have the envyadeck from 4.73b that works with asio and the 550b driver.

 hope this helps someone.

 edit: this only works with the toslink output not the analog out from the wolfson. however, the 5.50a works just fine with asio on the toslink out. so if you have a dac you are in business!

 music_man


----------



## music_man

you can load the 5.50a driver and use the 5.30b control panel like i mentioned above. then with foobar you can use ks output and the sox plugin at 32/192. make sure to put the envy control panel in hi-sample at 192khz. it will output the rear jack and toslink. i am running it into a dac1 and the sound is outstanding. a/b'ing between the dac1 and the chaintech's wolfson is also impressive. the chaintech is not as good but almost close.

 i feel this is vastly superior to not upsampling. the only downside is you need a hefty processor. it is using 15% of an i7!

 i now have renewed happiness with this card. when was the last time a $25 hardware componet lasted 7 years and counting? good deal.

 music_man


----------



## Graphicism

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_man* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i feel this is vastly superior to not upsampling. the only downside is you need a hefty processor. it is using 15% of an i7!_

 

15% on an i7 for playing bit-perfect 16-bit 44.1kHz mp3 or flac? Either way mine never goes over 1% (usually 0%) on a Core 2 duo...


----------



## music_man

it is being resampled to 32/192. resampling that high takes some power. plus it is probably not the most efficient programming. it is a free plugin.

 it is going between 0% and 15%. it could be other processes running too. i am not sure. it is going up and down.

 music_man


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## metreonfuture

where do you put the kernal streamer after you download it?


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## metreonfuture

okay, which selection is it? the ks envy 24 one?


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## metreonfuture

also, sorry for the repeated posts, but does this replace the windows output programming for all audio or just the ones for the cd player?
   
  and is there any way to use the wolfson dac without using the optical out? i'm just using the out right next to it.


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## BassThor

Hi guys, 
   
  I've been struggling to get the surr. out to work on my Windows 7 64 bit computer. I've got a screenshot here of what happens when I try setting Foobar to using KS;


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## Graphicism

Quote: 





bassthor said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I've been struggling to get the surr. out to work on my Windows 7 64 bit computer. I've got a screenshot here of what happens when I try setting Foobar to using KS;


 

 Couple things you could try... first I see you've set the sample rate to auto, try 44.1 and see if it that works. If that doesn't fix it update the software version, I'm running program version 0.0.5.2 with drivers 5.12.1.3655 on Win 7 64-bit


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## FallenAngel

Also, you have the output at 24-bit, isn't your content 16-bit?


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## Turducken

i know i'm waking this up from the dead and decrepit, but just want to thank everyone who's contributed to this guide, and getting the bugs hammered out with this card and win7 64bit.  i used the instructions on pg.1 using 5.40a control panel (xp sp2 comp. mode), and 4.60b driver.  i did not however use the HF drivers in the amd64 folder within the driver archive.  i used the viaudoem without a hitch although unsure of any issues or differences, but it seem to be working/sounding great .  currently using the foobar KS output component successfully enjoying KS 16bit 44.1khz line out to my old mac amp sounding so. much. better. than the onboard realtek 889a i've been living with for over a year.  had this av710 new since xp was young, and it's been living a lonely life tucked in a dusty drawer for the passed few years. thanks again! this $16 card owes me absolutely nothing yet keeps on giving.  too bad more engineers like the one's who designed this card aren't making more sneakily excellent products.


----------



## inarc

hi, i need help getting this thing running:
   
  1) i am using chaintech av-512, i was on win xp pro, and i used this guide, and it worked fine for me (on 5.1)
   
  i upgraded to win7 pro x64, and i followed the updated guide to install on win7 x64
  i cant get 5.1 working again for some reason (only getting stereo; tried to do the audio test, doesnt work and get errors with no sound through the different channels)
   
  the driver i'm using is envy 24 family audio controller WDM 64 bits: driver version - 5.1.3646
   
 Graphicism said he's running program version 0.0.5.2 with drivers 5.12.1.3655 on Win 7 64-bit <- where are these drivers and program?


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## music_man

new windows 7 64 bit drivers on audiotrak korea. 4.60a. use wasapi in foobar now. i am using sox resampler 192/24. 32 bit does not work with my stream and is just a cpu hog. it does not make a difference over 24 imo. if you do not see 192 in hi-output replace file enmix.cpl from the 5.40a driver. copy/paste file and replace. manually install driver from amd64 folder after install from device manager or intel driver.
   
  i might not find this thread again if anyone replies due to the search on this site being bunk.
   
  4.60a is actually newer than 4.60b from via.


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## nagual

Are there new sound-cards with the same chipset ?


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## music_man

yes. audiotrak.net it is still a great chipset but these are not $15. the spdif is as good as anything but for the analog outputs i'd be looking at a xonar or pro card.
   
  i couldn't edit my post. the driver in the 4.60a package is newer than the one in the 4.60b package if you can even find the b.


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## jaba1337

So what is the best option for using the Wolfson DAC under windows 7?  Right now I have installed the drivers from http://www.jp.onkyo.com/support/pcaudio/download/se90pci.htm (5.60C) and then installed the driver and followed the instructions listed in the first post of this thread, which does seem to work fine.  Is there a better option currently?  I know audiotrak (http://www.audiotrak.co.kr/kr/customer/Dprodigyhd2.php) has a set of drivers, 5.50a, too.  I guess all it comes down to is, what is the best combination of driver and control panel?


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## infinitesymphony

Just to clarify, this thread is about getting bit-perfect stereo audio from the Wolfson DAC portion of the card. This means no 5.1-channel audio, no upsampling, no resampling, etc. If you want those features, you'll have to sacrifice getting the best audio quality.


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## pleshy

Hi. I bought an AV-710 about a week ago and thanks to this guide managed to set it up properly. Now I've no problem kernel streaming with foobar2000. However, I have another question.
   
  I mostly use headphones for movies and TV series and that's the most important aspect to me. That begin said, is there a proper way to set the AV-710 for movie watching? Do I have to set something in the drivers or use some kind of special software (player, codec, etc.) I'm lost so any help would be much appreciated. I have a pair of Ultrasone HFI-780s.
   
  I'm taking my first steps into the "hi-fi world" (I've never used high-quality hardware before) and I'm pretty confused. I try to read as much as I can but my knowledge is still low to none and therefore I apologize.


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## infinitesymphony

Most of the time, downmixing is done in software. Either the movie player you use or Windows itself will downmix multichannel content to 2.0 stereo. Basically, you don't need to worry about that part.


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## pleshy

Is downmixing a good thing? I realize I'm using 2.0 stereo but how can I get surround sound with the HFI-780s? I listened to some impressive Dolby Headphone samples and I'd very much like to get such effects in movies. Maybe that's not possible with the AV-710?
   
  Another thing came up. I booted into Windows 7 64-bit and followed the guide in the first post and managed to get it working through the back surr. jack but I noticed the sound quality wasn't nearly as good as on Windows XP 32-bit. Does this mean I'm not using the Wolfson DAC? Is there a way to use the Wolfson DAC on Windows 7 64-bit?


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## infinitesymphony

Quote: 





pleshy said:


> Is downmixing a good thing? I realize I'm using 2.0 stereo but how can I get surround sound with the HFI-780s? I listened to some impressive Dolby Headphone samples and I'd very much like to get such effects in movies. Maybe that's not possible with the AV-710?
> 
> Another thing came up. I booted into Windows 7 64-bit and followed the guide in the first post and managed to get it working through the back surr. jack but I noticed the sound quality wasn't nearly as good as on Windows XP 32-bit. Does this mean I'm not using the Wolfson DAC? Is there a way to use the Wolfson DAC on Windows 7 64-bit?


 

 You can't get surround sound from two transducers because it's physically impossible. Surround sound content is encoded in six or more (5.1) discrete channels, so in order to fit all of that info into two channels (2.0), it must be downmixed; there's no way around it. You can fake surround using phase tricks, which is the basis of Dolby Headphone, SRS TruSurround, et al. The AV-710 drivers do not include that feature but you may be able to find a plug-in for whichever software player you use that can approximate the effect. Additionally, CyberLink PowerDVD software has Dolby Headphone built in.
   
  Are you using WASAPI output through Foobar to play music?


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## pleshy

Thanks for the info! I tried Arcsoft TotalMedia Theatre's headphone options, unfortunately they were disappointing so I assumed PowerDVD was similar. Now, I'll definitely look into it. Is Dolby Headphone available on all sources or is it exclusive to special content only? I'll try to find some plug-ins as well, are they specific for a given player or rather a codec that works with all players? Can you recommend any?
   
  On the topic of Windows 7 64-bit. I followed the directions word for word. Both WASAPI and Kernel Streaming work in Foobar but the sound quality is the same - nowhere near as good as on Windows XP 32-bit. Even the volume itself is lower. Is there a workaround this or is true 44.1kHz Wolfson output exclusive to XP 32-bit?


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## infinitesymphony

I don't use any enhancements, so I can't tell you too much about what's available. Dolby Headphone is just real-time DSP, it's not actually a part of the content itself, so it should affect everything when it's on.
   
  If Kernel Streaming works at 44.1 kHz then everything should be set up correctly. I don't have much experience with Windows 7 at this point, so maybe someone else could chime in about possible setup problems or differences between XP and 7.


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## faceless007

Has anyone found a way to make 6-channel mode work in the 4.60b drivers for Win7 64-bit ?  I'm trying to make it so I can select 2-channel mode for music, but switch to 6-channel mode for games.  Yes, I am trying to have it both ways, but when I was on XP, the 4.73 drivers allowed me to do this.  I would use 2-channel mode, enable PCM for music listening and plug my headphones into the back-surround jack.  Then for games, I would use 6-channel mode and it would give me full surround.  But I've just upgraded to 7x64, and it seems like I have to choose: the 4.60b drivers for the good Wolfson DAC disables 5.1 surround in Windows (for some reason Windows will only show Stereo speakers), but the 5.40a drivers disables the Wolfson and nothing is output over the back-surround jack.  Has anyone found a way around this?


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## cosmickid09

Hi all
   
  as my first post.... thanks to anyone who fullfilled this thread during these years  !
  with plenty and useful information and test !
   
  Now seriously :
   
  since this Chaintech is getting "old" .....and after being so satisfied with this wolfson dac !
  do you guys ever considered an upgrade thinking to an external DAC ?
  HRT streamer ...or V-DAC ....DAC magic ....r DAC
   
  mind that all Arcam Cd player have mostly the newest wolfson's Dac !
   
  any of the above mentioned could be a worth upgrade ...loooking at their values !?!?
   
   
  THANKS to ALL....seriously
   
  ciao


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## cloudcws

Hey there,not sure anyone still using this card.
  Recently got one AV 710 but didn't manage to install as my motherboard couldn't detect..
  And my motherboard PCI slot should work well.
  Does anyone know what causes such prob?


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## infinitesymphony

Either the PCI slot is bad or the card is bad. All motherboards should at least detect it even if the OS doesn't recognize what it is. Use compressed air to blow any potential dust out of the slot and off of the card's contacts, then try re-inserting it.


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## lim(x->0)

So I tried to update the drivers to 4.60 but win7 tells me I have the latest drivers, and the  av710 control panel says 5.12 next to drivers even after I installed the 5.40 in xp service pack 2 compatability mode. I set it to 2 and 44.1, and in foobar I have WASAPI speakers (envy 24) selected and 24 bit. I get the error: Unrecoverable playback error: Unsupported buffer size (0x88890016). I get the error for any 16/24/32 mode I select in foobar


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## infinitesymphony

Try uninstalling the drivers in Device Manager and starting from scratch. Not sure where you picked up the 5.12 drivers.


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## duetta

For those of you still using this card, there are new drivers available that finally install the Audio Deck as part of the setup process in Window 7.  Here's the link to the 32 bit version.
   
  http://www.viaarena.com/displaydrivers.aspx?PageID=1&OSID=54&CatID=3480&SubCatID=107
   
  I was browsing Newegg the other day and discovered an inexpensive Syba product that also uses the EnvyPT24 chipset:
   
  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829186003
   
  Obviously, this chipset is outdated - but I hate discarding working gear, and don't use use my desktop much for music.  My AV-710 still works fine, after all these years.  Also, I've discovered quite by accident last night that my version of the Chaintek actually support front-panel audio, even though the jack does not show up on the printed documentation.


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## sohho

"I guess all it comes down to is,* what is the best combination of driver and control panel?*"
   
  ... and also, maybe,  a new set of instructions, as the ones in the first post are totally outdated and some links lead to nowhere.. and when thy lead somewhere* Windows 7* (32bits in my case) wont let you replace a modern driver with a ´95 one.
  So... *I am totally confused*. I already have a full collection of Envy Drivers (442a/413d/473b/540a &560b)... some simply not recognized by the OS, but *none of them show the options described in the tutorial of post one.*
   
  Now I learn that driver and control panel are not a single unit (I actually remember having in XP a panel that read "Vinyl" somewhere, I miss it...), so confusion doubles up...
   
  To make it worst, *there is NO WAY I can get sound out of that famous "black jack"* that provides the *Wolfson *output. 
  Can anyone, please, give me a detailed tutorial of how to make the best set of drivers work with the necessary control panel, and the precise proccedure to obtain sound from that black jack?
  Than you very very much...


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## MidTower

i am having totally the same problem as sohho, suggest that is due to how window 7 x32 now update driver.
   
  however, i do find my card is working correctly for the "Back Surr" plug, tested it in sound, configure my Envy24 driver, in 7.1channel, the "black surr" work for SL and SR channel =.=
   
  the green normal jack is also working, just not the wolfosn "Black surr"
   
  can anyone that have experience on more recent window 7 install that can guide? thx


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## dafoomie

I have to move this card into a new build and do the driver install all over again, so I'll report back here if I get it to work.  It was a real horror show the last time.
   
  I remember that the black port would never work in one pci slot no matter what I did but would in another, less convenient one.  And I'm pretty sure the 460b drivers were the only ones that worked for me (Win7/x64), but the newer drivers needed to be both uninstalled and deleted or else Windows would refuse to install them.  Forgot how I did that though.  I'm not really sure what the purpose is of installing the newer driver first if its just going to cause that problem.


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## crispyambulance

I'm also having the same problem as sohho.  I had to reinstall windows, and when I followed the directions in the first post for Windows 7 x64, the result was no sound at all whatsoever, directions that had worked for me three or four years ago on Windows 7 x64.  I have been able to get sound by installing 5.40a by itself and 4.60b by itself, both through setup.exe, compatibility Windows XP SP2, as well as letting Windows Update install its own audio driver that doesn't give me the control deck, but kernel streaming will not work in winamp regardless of how I mess with the settings. The only way I've been able to get kernel streaming to work in winamp is by installing the drivers version 5.60c (no compatibility mode), but no matter how I fiddle with the channel and sampling rate settings, I can't get output out of any jack but the green.  Has someone found a way?
   
  A note about the instructions for Windows 7 x64 in the original post: I can install 5.40a fine, restart, and when I go to device manager to update the driver with the 4.60b files, I point it to the directory.  If I choose to let it scan automatically, it says my drivers are up to date, if I choose to choose which driver to install manually, my only choice is "VIA Family Audio Controller WDM" and there's no option to install a 64-bit version.
   
  Another weird note, and the most inexplicable thing about this mess: I'm using the same install disc as when I originally installed Windows 7 and the procedure in the OP worked.  What could have possibly changed to make Windows 7 reject these drivers?


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## dafoomie

Windows 7 won't let you downgrade the drivers that way anymore, the only way to get the 4.60b drivers to install once you've already had the newer ones is to uninstall and delete the previous driver files.  Simply uninstalling the device won't work, if the newer drivers are still there it will automatically use those instead.
   
  I installed the 4.60b drivers on a clean Windows 7 system by right clicking on the .inf, without installing any of the newer drivers first, and I'm getting audio out of the black jack.


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## crispyambulance

Could you be more specific about what you did?  I'm looking through my folder for the 4.60b drivers, and I can't find any files with the .inf extension besides envy24hf.inf and viaudoem.inf in \drivers\amd64\.  I cleaned out my 5.60c drivers, restarted, and right-click open on both of them opens them in notepad, while right-click install produces this install error "The INF file you selected foes not support this method of installation", with a close button.


----------



## dafoomie

http://www.viaarena.com/Driver/Envy24_Family_64%20Bit%20Drivers_V460b.zip
  Envy24_Family_64 Bit Drivers_V460b\Drivers\AMD64\Envy24HF.INF
   
  I don't think it would be any different to install them through the device manager vs right clicking install on them.


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## crispyambulance

OK, I used your link but I still got the install error again, so I installed it through device manager by pointing that wizard all the way to \Envy24_Family_64 Bit Drivers_V460b\Drivers\AMD64\ instead of just the root of the driver directory like before.  I used the option in the wizard which has windows choose the driver software automatically instead of allowing you to pick from a list.  The result was output from the black jack, but no kernel streaming, and I couldn't toy with the control panel because it wasn't installed.  This was all on a system with no drivers at all before installation.
   
  So I uninstalled that and decided to mimic the process in the OP.  I started by running the setup.exe for 5.40a (compatibility mode: XP SP2), restarting and installing the 4.60b .inf through device manager, still pointing it to \Drivers\AMD64\ and restarting again.  After configuring the control panel, kernel streaming worked but the black jack did not.  I uninstalled all of that and repeated it except using 5.60c's setup.exe (no compatibility mode), and the result was identical.
   
  So I tried something I thought I tried already.  I just ran 4.60b's setup.exe (compatibility mode: XP SP2), restarted, configured the control panel to (and I think this is important) be on the speaker setting that just says 2, "s/pdif out" enabled, "pcm only" enabled, sample rate 44,100hz.  The rest of the settings I have not touched, and I didn't install anything through the device manager.  The result is functioning kernel streaming through the black jack via both foobar and winamp.
   
  Thanks for setting me on the right track, dafoomie.  Hopefully there's enough information here that people can get all the features out of this card for another few years.


----------



## dafoomie

Your process is perfect, it should be in the OP.
   
  I removed 4.60b, installed 5.40a through setup, then installed 4.60b through setup without removing the previous version and configured the panel with those settings.  Works great.
   
  Also, if anyone has difficulty getting sound once you switch to 44.1k in the audiodeck panel, you have to go into the control panel, open sound, click properties on your playback device (usually says speakers or something), then in advanced, the default format needs to be 16 bit, 44100hz.  Mine for some reason defaulted to 48000 and nothing but kernel streaming would play initially.


----------



## infinitesymphony

To clarify, the current solution for Windows 7 64-bit is to download and install the XP64 4.60b drivers with XP SP2 compatibility mode enabled? If so, I will update the OP.


----------



## Chances

I encounter the same problem as many posts here (win7 tells me I have the latest drivers when tried to update the drivers to 4.60) when moving to Win7-64.
  Eventually I use the following steps to mix the old driver with the new audio deck successfully.
   
  0. Extract V460b driver to a location.
   
  1. Install V460b first by updating driver in Device Manager (provide the location of the extracted driver in step 0).
  This is how I install the older driver first.

 2. Install V540a by running the setup problem in XP sp2 compatibility mode.
  Now my driver is updated to the new one together with the new Audio Deck.

 3. Now goes to Device manager and roll back the driver to a older version.
  This way the new Audio Deck will still be kept in place.

 4. Reboot.

 5. Adjust setting in Audio Deck to be "PCM mode" and "Auto" sample rate with S/PDIF enable.


----------



## McNubbins

Six years later and this thread is still helping me get my old $20 PCI sound card to blast some tunes into my headphones. Thank you, infinitesymphony and all.


----------



## Silverwind

I have one of these cards in the closet, used it a while back with my AV receiver.
  
 Is it still possible to get wolfson output in windows 7 64-bit?  Does the "black" jack work OK with low impedence headphones?


----------



## Logistics

Silverwind said:


> I have one of these cards in the closet, used it a while back with my AV receiver.
> 
> Is it still possible to get wolfson output in windows 7 64-bit?  Does the "black" jack work OK with low impedence headphones?



I know this is going back a bit, but let's keep in mind that soundcards should be regarded as a "Source".  Even though they are marketed with the ability to output to mild headphones, I would suggest disregarding this feature.  Ideally, you would output from your soundcard to either a dedicated headphone amplifier or preamp of sorts.  For instance, I have an M-Audio Delta 410, which uses the core Envy24 processor, and is actually superior to all other revisions of the Envy24 if you're looking for pure sound quality.  That said, the Envy24 HT-S which you'll find on the AV-710 is not a bad chip, just not quite the professional-grade of the core Envy24.  Anyway, I output my Delta 410 over analog to a Yamaha C-65 preamplifier, which has a very good headphone output stage IMO.  At the very least, the preamp pairs very well with my Sony MDR-V700's.  I went from an X-Fi Extreme Music to this Delta 410, and the difference in sound quality is ridiculous--the M-Audio card sounds amazing.

I also happen to have an AV-710 sitting, here on my desk.  I haven't had a chance to run it in my current system, yet.  However, when I do I will have every intention of recapping it with film capacitors in the output stage.  And some power stiffening with small polymers or low-impedance electrolytics is in order.  I can tell you that changing the capacitors on the power traces (V+ rails) can make a huge difference.  When I used Panasonic FM's and FC's on the power traces of an SbLive!, it made the output very black (read: quiet) when there was silence.

One thing I do notice about my AV-710 though is it's a 5V PCI card, and does not have the dual slots to signify 3.3V and 5V ability.  I can't remember if the potential problem is newer motherboards not having +5V on PCI or older motherboards not having +3.3V.  I know not having +12V over ISA became a problem on later ISA-equipped motherboards.

Anyway, hope people keep those Envy24 cards alive as they are still nicer than most of the newer cards for Stereo listening.

Matthew


----------

