# AudioQuest Dragonfly Review : Affordable, Outstanding, Tiny DAC / Amp



## jude

*AudioQuest Dragonfly Review : Affordable, Outstanding, Tiny DAC / Amp*​  ​ ​ *(above) The AudioQuest Dragonfly USB DAC/amp, uncapped, with its included drawstring carry pouch.*​  ​   
_Is that a USB DAC/amp combo in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?_ In the case of the new *AudioQuest Dragonfly* that would most definitely _not_ be a compliment, as the Dragonfly is downright _tiny_.
   
  In addition to tiny, here's what the Dragonfly also is: It is a USB bus-powered DAC that is built around an ESS Sabre DAC chip (audiophile-approved buzzword item, _check_); has asynchronous USB transfer via Gordon Rankin's Streamlength code (big-time audiophile-approved buzzword item, _check_); 64-step _analog_ volume control (_check_); support for up to 24/96, including 24/88 (_check_); and is the size of a USB thumb drive. _(What?)_ Yup. What the AudioQuest Dragonfly also is is my new USB DAC/amp combo of choice for travel/hotel use, and also my new coffee house USB DAC/amp. It's $250. And, for what it is, it's unique and superb.
   
  Again, the Dragonfly looks like a fancy USB thumb drive (in a heavier duty metal chassis), but with a mini-jack (3.5mm) output on its rear end. If you plug a mini-plug-terminated interconnect cable into that jack, then you've got a DAC with a 2-volt lineout that you can plug into your favorite headphone amp, preamp, power amp, integrated amp, or receiver. If you plug a headphone directly into that jack, then you've got a surprisingly good (and outlandishly portable) DAC/amp combo.
   

  The Dragonfly defeats the computer's volume control, hijacking the computer's user interface (UI) to instead control the Dragonfly's own 64-step analog volume control. So, to the user, volume adjustment feels natural and familiar, from the standpoint of UI, but with the benefit of the Dragonfly's analog volume control. _Digital_ volume controls can result in at least a theoretical loss of resolution as volume levels are decreased, and bits dropped, which the Dragonfly's _analog_ volume control avoids. Perfect level matching (between the left and right channels) at each of the 64 steps is another benefit of having a stepped volume control, and I've tested this with my most sensitive custom in-ear monitors down to the Dragonfly's lowest volume levels.
   
  As a USB DAC, the Dragonfly, to my ears, exceeds the performance of my previous USB bus-powered DACs, more detailed, more full sounding, than the Styleaudio Carat-EMERALD and Fostex HP-A3. In fact, I'd recommend its comparison to anything I've used in the sub-$1000 price range, just because it plays in that ballpark, and does so in this exciting little (and pocketable) form factor. In other words, it doesn't just check off the audiophile buzzwords on its packaging, as a DAC, it _sounds_ the part too. 
   
  Relative to the DACs I consider my current personal references--the Lavry DA11 and the Fostex HP-A8C--the Dragonfly falls a bit short compared to the DA11's outstanding detail retrieval (one of the reasons the ol' Lavry's still a favorite of mine), or the HP-A8C's level of detail (comparable to the DA11) and open, airy soundstage (one of my favorite things about the flagship Fostex). (The standalone amps I've used these DACs with include the HiFiMAN EF-6, Ray Samuels Audio Raptor, and Apex High Fi Audio Butte.)
   
  As a DAC/amp combo (used to directly drive headphones), again, I prefer the Dragonfly to the Carat-EMERALD and HP-A3 for all headphones I've tried with all three of them. I have found that from the standpoint of directly driving several headphones I've tried with it, the Dragonfly is sonically comparable to directly driving those headphones from the likes of the Lavry DA11 and ASUS Xonar Essence One (though with less overall drive than either), but not at the level of the Fostex HP-A8C, which is fast-growing into one of my favorite audio components, the new Fostex flagship being possibly the best of the DAC/headphone amp combos I've so far used. What's remarkable, though, is how well the Dragonfly holds its own, at its size and price. All things considered, it's nothing short of extraordinary.
   
  Some of the over-ear headphones I've used with it so far include the beyerdynamic T5p, Sennheiser HD 650, Sennheiser HD 700, Sennheiser HD 800, HiFiMAN HE-400, HiFiMAN HE-6, Audeze LCD-2, Audeze LCD-3, and the Fostex TH-900. And I'll continue to use the Dragonfly with those, with the exceptions of the HE-6 and the HD 800. With the HE-6, it simply felt underpowered, which is not anything for the diminutive Dragonfly to be ashamed of, as many dedicated desktop amps shrink at the sight of this headphone. The HD 800 could be driven by the Dragonfly to volume levels exceeding what I can tolerate, but sounds rather dry in this pairing, relative to my favorite HD800-driving amps. With the other headphones, though, it's easy to find satisfaction, and I've already used it as a hotel rig with the Audeze LCD-3, and it helped keep me from missing my primary rigs while away.
   
  Sometimes just as challenging as driving top-tier over-ears--but for entirely different reasons--is finding ideal performance with sensitive in-ear monitors. Obviously, having ample power isn't the issue with most in-ears, but _finesse_ can be an issue. Is the noise floor low enough? Does the volume control keep the channels matched at even the lowest volumes? From single-driver universal-fit IEMs to eight-driver-per-ear high-end custom IEMs, the Dragonfly is fantastic. So far, I've used the Ultimate Ears In-Ear Reference Monitor, Ultimate Ears Personal Reference Monitor, JH Audio JH13 Pro, JH Audio JH16 Pro, Westone ES5, FitEar MH334, Klipsch Image X10 and Sony XBA-3iP with the Dragonfly. Noise floor is practically nonexistent with most of those, somewhat perceptible with the MH334, and most noticeable (though still low-level enough to not be a big problem for me) with the ES5. In other words, the Dragonfly's background is quite black, its noise floor very low.

   
  As the Dragonfly uses USB Class 1 data transfer, it is, again, limited to 24/96, which isn't a problem for me right now, as I currently have very little music in my library above that. One advantage of this, though, is that the Dragonfly should work with most computers without the need for any driver installation--that is, it should be plug-and-play with just about any computer. The Dragonfly also supports 24/88.2, which I'm thankful for, as not all DACs do, and I have a decent number of 24/88.2 albums and tracks in my library.
   
  With my Macs, I use *Sonic Studio's Amarra software* to both improve my computer audio systems' sound, and to facilitate automatic sample rate switching to match the track's native sample rate, and it works with the Dragonfly without any issues. AudioQuest even implemented a clever sample rate indicator on the Dragonfly's tiny body, which works by changing the color of the illuminated Dragonfly logo to indicate certain sample rates--green for 44.1kHz, blue for 48kHz, amber for 88.2kHz, and magenta for 96kHz. (Some of my other DACs don't indicate sample rate at all.)
   
  One month in with the Dragonfly so far, and I'm absolutely thrilled with it. I have no doubt that the itty-bitty AudioQuest Dragonfly is going to make _big_ waves in computer audio, significantly altering expectations at the $250 price point. I think it provides enough performance to satisfy most music aficionados, and all but the most demanding audio enthusiasts. The AudioQuest Dragonfly's tiny form factor is also a very big deal, not just because it's lightweight and fits in your pocket, but because it also encourages its use in places and situations where you wouldn't otherwise whip out a USB DAC/amp combo (like airplanes and places in your home and office where you use your laptop, but don't have a rig otherwise handy, to name just a couple).
   
  So, yes, that _is_ a USB DAC/amp combo in my pocket, and an affordable, outstanding one at that!
   
​ *(above) The AudioQuest Dragonfly's line-out / headphone out (3.5mm mini jack) up-close.*​


----------



## bobeau

Thanks Jude, is a writeup I've been waiting for.
   
  One question I have is how is the power draw when using full size cans, esp. LCD-3s?  I imagine there's no getting around physics, but I have some Thunderpants and was thinking about using this with my 11" MBA.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Very nice jude! and well written. I think i can agree with everything you said after hearing it at ChiUniFi a couple weeks ago. Absolutely loved it with my JH-13s


----------



## jude

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Thanks Jude, is a writeup I've been waiting for.
> 
> One question I have is how is the power draw when using full size cans, esp. LCD-3s?  I imagine there's no getting around physics, but I have some Thunderpants and was thinking about using this with my 11" MBA.


 
   
  My Thunderpants is out on loan, so I haven't yet tried it with the Dragonfly--I'll let you know when I do.
   
  As for its power draw: I'm not sure how much power it's drawing to do so, but the Dragonfly will drive the LCD-3. I've mostly used it so far with a few different MacBook Airs, an old MacBook Pro, and will be using it with the latest MacBook Pro with Retina display whenever it arrives (probably not for a few weeks). I'll bring home an old Samsung Windows netbook today, and see how it does with that.
   
  (Let me know if I misunderstood your question.)


----------



## sridhar3

Nice work, Jude.
   





   
  Edit: Curious to hear how this stacks up against ODAC/O2 or ODAC/c421, seeing as it plays in the same ballpark pricewise.


----------



## shockdoc

Very interesting little device. Eager to hear more about it.


----------



## kiteki

I think this has potential from very thin laptops (like the Vaio pocket) as a new portable contender.
   
  Seems like Sabre ESS chips are becoming more popular, apart from that I don't really see the similarity to the ODAC.


----------



## sling5s

Any comparisons to the Centrance Dacport?   Quality of sound and power?  Is it on the bright side, or dark side, neutral? 
   
  thanks


----------



## Twinster

Nice write up Jude thank you! Any chance you can do a comparaison with the Centrance DACport?


----------



## faverodefavero

Very interested in sound quality comparsions against CE Entrance DAC Mini!!

Also, some direct comparisions against other Sub USD$1'000.00 DACs would be great! Would, specially like to know how it's sound fares against Schiit Bifrost and Buron DA-160 DACs.


PS: How many watts RMS can it output per channel working as HP-amp, and what's the max gain (in dbs) of it, please?


----------



## pekingduck

Is it iPad + CCK compatible?


----------



## tzjin

Wow I realized an amp was part of that tiny package! Great review Jude! Can't wait for someone to start comparing it to other DAC's in that pricerange. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  typhoon859, I'm very happy that you enjoy your E17 and are content with it. Please understand some people are looking for the best sound money can buy, and are willing to pay much more. If you aren't interested in this product, I suggest you ignore this thread.


----------



## YoengJyh




----------



## PANGES

Looks interesting! I'm pretty sure I'd lose something that small though. =/


----------



## kiteki

The only portable device using a Sabre chip is the DX100 so this one would be a contender with a very tiny laptop.


----------



## PolkManiac

Does anyone know which Sabre chip this one uses?


----------



## kiteki

Looks like the shape of the ESS ES9023 and I think there is a tiny op-amp there I can't tell from the fuzzy picture, at least I hope there is.


----------



## wushuliu

Quote: 





sling5s said:


> Any comparisons to the Centrance Dacport?   Quality of sound and power?  Is it on the bright side, or dark side, neutral?
> 
> thanks


 
  It's been some months since I had the Dacport but from memory they are very different in presentation. The Dacport has a bold presentation and not splashy in the treble like a lot of dacs are. However it does not focus on detail retrieval, like decay, etc. and not a lot of depth (but I think this goes for most usb dacs I've heard). Dacport overall is similar to NOS dacs like AD1865, 1704, etc. The Dragonfly on the other hand really pulls out detail and is stellar in the vocal range. It has a 'brighter' signature for sure but without the splashiness. If you're a 'clarity' fan then the Dragonfly will impress. Like the Dacport, however, it is pretty flat as far as depth. Dragonfly is more refined than the odac to my ears. It sounds really, really good. Choosing between the Dacport would be tough though depending on what you like. Hope this helps.
   
  Note: I used these dacs for 2 channel speaker setup not headphones.


----------



## judmarc

Quote: 





typhoon859 said:


> Even if its half the size of something else, those other things are already small enough.


 
   
  Well no, not really.  Went on vacation, 5 hour plane flight each way.  With this thing, 1200 songs on my laptop, and the Ety ER-4P I was in heaven for 10 hours of flying.  Can't tell you the last time I absolutely did not mind flights of that length.  Try to fit another rig that sounds this good in the width of a coach class airline seat.  (To me it sounds a lot better than the regular audio output from my MacBook Pro, which does not sound bad itself.)
   
  Then with an ordinary auxiliary cable I plugged it into the rental car's stereo system, and voila, tunes for 8 days in the desert Southwest.
   
  Now it's plugged into the back of my desktop, where its sound is an improvement on the very good ESI Juli@ sound card.  Even better, it works with all the operating systems I run on my desktop - Windows, Linux, FreeBSD - while unfortunately there are no FreeBSD drivers for the digital output of the Juli@.  So I am one happy camper.
   
  Now if $250 (or even the nice discount I was able to get from a local dealer) is a lot more than you want to spend on a DAC, that's fine.  No problem at all with that.  For folks who don't mind the price, this really helps fill a niche for excellent mobile sound.


----------



## judmarc

Quote: 





pekingduck said:


> Is it iPad + CCK compatible?


 
   
  Only if you run it off a powered USB hub, which does cut down on portability.


----------



## kiteki

Well it's new so I don't think there's any comparisons like that yet but they will come in due time versus the D-Zero and ODAC and all that jazz.


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





kiteki said:


> Look I made Dragonball calm down.


 
   
  LOL ----  Sorry .... hey I'm a Fiio E17 owner and fan myself ---- don't come after me!


----------



## J.Pocalypse

Quote: 





pekingduck said:


> Is it iPad + CCK compatible?


 
   
   
  I'm wondering the same thing. Surely Jude has one to find out.. Right?


----------



## kalbee

Wow, its tiny. I'd actually be afraid of people stealing it. As easy as plug-n-play you just unplug-n-go.
  That aside, quite an interesting gadget! No extra cables involved is always a plus.
  Might be the perfect gift for my dad, as Acer netbook onboard soundcard is simply... terrible.
   
  P.S. does it work on anything other than computers? like... PS3 for instance


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





typhoon859 said:


> Yup, I know; I guess we'll see


 
   
  This is such a new product and it is indeed just the size of a thumb size, my first thought looking at it is how good can it be?
   
  I own the E17 as well, recently purchased an O2/ODAC unit, and while I think the former is a great bang for the buck - the latter just shoots quite a bit higher.  We're not talking a slim margin.  it sounds like a good $500+ combo rig to my ears.  But it's also twice the size, doesn't run on batteries, and twice the cost.  I'm taking a look at this thing as someone from the ODAC thread just said he found this to be a bit better.  That to me is quite remarkable and I'm eager to see impressions continue to roll in.  At this point I'm just taking IEMs and plugging them straight in my Macbook Air most of the time for the sake of convenience.


----------



## pekingduck

See the reply from judmarc below 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote:


j.pocalypse said:


> I'm wondering the same thing. Surely Jude has one to find out.. Right?


 
    
   
  Quote:


judmarc said:


> Only if you run it off a powered USB hub, which does cut down on portability.


----------



## sling5s

Thanks for the comparisons.  I do like it on the warm side rather than bright.  I was hoping to replace the Dacport but I guess I'll hold on to it.
  Quote: 





wushuliu said:


> It's been some months since I had the Dacport but from memory they are very different in presentation. The Dacport has a bold presentation and not splashy in the treble like a lot of dacs are. However it does not focus on detail retrieval, like decay, etc. and not a lot of depth (but I think this goes for most usb dacs I've heard). Dacport overall is similar to NOS dacs like AD1865, 1704, etc. The Dragonfly on the other hand really pulls out detail and is stellar in the vocal range. It has a 'brighter' signature for sure but without the splashiness. If you're a 'clarity' fan then the Dragonfly will impress. Like the Dacport, however, it is pretty flat as far as depth. Dragonfly is more refined than the odac to my ears. It sounds really, really good. Choosing between the Dacport would be tough though depending on what you like. Hope this helps.
> 
> Note: I used these dacs for 2 channel speaker setup not headphones.


----------



## MickeyVee

Thanks for the great review Jude!  I'm thinking that this may be perfect for my MacBook Air and HD700/HE400/M80.  I was in one of my favorite audio stores a few days ago looking at the rPAC and they were pretty stoked about the Dragonfly.  I'll give it a try when they get it in stock.


----------



## jude

Quote: 





typhoon859 said:


> Holy crap!  How is $250 affordable?...


 
   
  If, hypothetically, you believed everything I said about the Dragonfly (which I'm not saying you do, just work with me here), and you _still_ are disgusted that I've referred to it as "affordable" at $250, then I have to wonder where you think you are? I may soon link you to a thread about a $1000 in-ear monitor to see if your head explodes.

   Quote: 





typhoon859 said:


> You can get top of the line headphones for that much!






   
  I'm sure $250 will get you headphones that are at the top of some lines, yes.
   
   Quote: 





typhoon859 said:


> I don't even know why I wasted my time reading this and looking into this.






   
  I'm sorta wonderin' that myself.
   
   Quote: 





typhoon859 said:


> I was going to ask how it compares with the line-out (the complaints seem to not be about that) of this thing, the HiFiMan HM-101, but that's when I thought there was a comparable price.






   
  I have the HM-101. There is absolutely no comparison between the two.

   Quote: 





typhoon859 said:


> Why would I get this instead of some higher end DAC/Preamp combination?






   
  I don't know--especially if you are in the market for a higher-end DAC/preamp combo. If you're in the market for a higher-end DAC/preamp combo (I'm guessing you mean a desktop one), and this little DAC/amp disgusts you at its price, then I suggest you get the higher-end DAC/preamp combo.
   
    Quote: 





typhoon859 said:


> I could get a receiver for this price!






   
  Yes you could!
   
  Like Bubba in _Forrest Gump _goes on about shrimp, I'm sure one could go on all day enumerating all the other things one could buy with $250 instead of the Dragonfly. _Eight pairs of Levi's jeans. One pair of designer jeans. A romantic dinner for two. A netbook computer. Some type of bicycle. A roundtrip flight to a nearby major city. A black market firearm (of dubious quality)..._
   
   Quote: 





typhoon859 said:


> As a matter of fact, if there was a line out built in to your computer, even a digital one like many actually do have now, this isn't worth to even have cross your mind.







   
  My MacBook Pro has a digital out (via optical). Now tell me what I'm supposed to do with the free end of the optical cable I've plugged into it, in the cramped confines of an airplane tray table? Or even at a coffee house?
   
  And if one is perfectly happy with the quality of one's laptop's headphone output for all the headphones he wishes to use, you are correct that he probably should save himself the 250 bucks.
    


   Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Typhoon859* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> It's just a DAC with only one type of input and output!






   
  At the very least, let nobody accuse you of not having at least skimmed through my review.
   
   
  EDIT: Whoops, looks like there was a thread-pruning by a moderator while I was responding. Nevertheless, I'll keep this response intact (which is now a response to a deleted post), just in case anybody else comes to this thread with similar sentiments.


----------



## Nick01

Quote: 





twinster said:


> Nice write up Jude thank you! Any chance you can do a comparaison with the Centrance DACport?


 
   
  Yes, a comparison against the Dacport would be very welcome.


----------



## jude

Quote: 





pekingduck said:


> Is it iPad + CCK compatible?


 
   
  No, unfortunately the iPad doesn't kick out enough juice through the Camera Connection Kit to power the Dragonfly up.


----------



## wushuliu

Quote: 





sling5s said:


> Thanks for the comparisons.  I do like it on the warm side rather than bright.  I was hoping to replace the Dacport but I guess I'll hold on to it.


 
  Don't forget Amazon has a super easy return policy if you want to check it or any other component out. That's how I audition dacs these days; they've got quite the audio selection now...


----------



## audionewbi

Any chance of measuring its out put impedence and vrm? It is just not easy for me to believe a unit like this can do all this. I just would hate to buy this unit and be disappointed.


----------



## stuckonsound

And if you do return it to Amazon, I'll buy it used from there and it will be an even better bargain.



wushuliu said:


> Don't forget Amazon has a super easy return policy if you want to check it or any other component out. That's how I audition dacs these days; they've got quite the audio selection now...


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





jude said:


> No, unfortunately the iPad doesn't kick out enough juice through the Camera Connection Kit to power the Dragonfly up.


 
   
  You should try the Dr Bott's T3 hub which fools the iPad into thinking you are using a powered hub when it's not, so the iPad doesn't complain about the DAC drawing too much power.  That might make it work.
   
  How does it sound vs something like the DACport which I think sounds amazing (although $399).


----------



## Deviltooth

Very interesting review.  I've just started purchasing dac/amps and like I have with iems I'm slowly but surely climbing the price/quality ladder.  This looks like a likely choice to pair with upcoming customs.


----------



## Mkubota1

Quote: 





jude said:


> The Dragonfly defeats the computer's volume control, hijacking the computer's user interface (UI) to instead control the Dragonfly's own 64-step analog volume control. So, to the user, volume adjustment feels natural and familiar, from the standpoint of UI, but with the benefit of the Dragonfly's analog volume control.


 
   
  I'm assuming that it still uses the same volume buttons on the Macbook keyboard?  If so, that's a HUGE plus for me.  I know you can do <Shift> <Option> <Vol> to get the same 64 steps in 10.7.4; but it's so much easier with one key.  Hmmm... 64 steps.  Is that just a coincidence?
   
  My only other concern with this and even USB flash drives is the way it sticks out.  I've always worried about breaking something like this, especially if used in places like a cramped airplane seat or on a lumpy bed.  But I guess you can always just get one of these short extensions.  I wonder if AQ would approve.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  This is pretty tempting.


----------



## DanBa

Does the DragonFly interwork with the Android-powered smartphone Samsung Galaxy S III?
   
  The Samsung Galaxy S III can interwork with some bus-powered USB DAC, without using a self-powered USB hub:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs-how-to-increase-the-issues-priority-with-google/60#post_8468969


----------



## judmarc

Quote: 





jude said:


> EDIT: Whoops, looks like there was a thread-pruning by a moderator while I was responding. Nevertheless, I'll keep this response intact (which is now a response to a deleted post), just in case anybody else comes to this thread with similar sentiments.


 
   
  Having been part of the "pruning," my apologies for having helped this thing veer off-topic, and my thanks to the moderator for getting it back on the rails.  As I noted above, the Dragonfly is a fine sounding unit for a home system, and for travel I think it has few if any competitors at the moment.


----------



## judmarc

Quote: 





mkubota1 said:


> I'm assuming that it still uses the same volume buttons on the Macbook keyboard?  If so, that's a HUGE plus for me.  I know you can do <Shift> <Option> <Vol> to get the same 64 steps in 10.7.4; but it's so much easier with one key.  Hmmm... 64 steps.  Is that just a coincidence?
> 
> My only other concern with this and even USB flash drives is the way it sticks out.  I've always worried about breaking something like this, especially if used in places like a cramped airplane seat or on a lumpy bed.  But I guess you can always just get one of these short extensions.  I wonder if AQ would approve.
> 
> ...


 
   
  AQ has said there will be a short flexible "Dragon Tail" extension on sale in the near future to resolve the problem of the DragonFly sticking out from the side of a laptop.


----------



## Mkubota1

Quote: 





judmarc said:


> AQ has said there will be a short flexible "Dragon Tail" extension on sale in the near future to resolve the problem of the DragonFly sticking out from the side of a laptop.


 
   
  Of course!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Thankfully, they'll probably keep it reasonable since it would be tough to see a $250 device with a $150 extension cable.  But then again...
   
  There really _isn't_ anything close to this on the market- yet.  With such an extension cable, this thing can simply hang from the laptop with only a bit more weight than the headphone cable itself.


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





mkubota1 said:


> Of course!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  well not in this format but certainly there has been many great sounding DACs in the market in that shape format, for example USB DAC by headstage and Halide design DACS come into mind.


----------



## WNBC

Don't call me crazy, but does anybody have thoughts of the Dragonfly vs iPhone for sound quality?
   
  For travel I usually carry my iPhone and a portable amp to power my RE-262.  Even though I have a more expensive desktop DAC I have no problems with the DAC chip inside the iPhone.  It has some shortcomings but overall it is enjoyable.  However, I can see some advantages to having this Dragonfly on my laptop and not having to break out a separate device while I'm working on the computer.  So, I'm weighing convenience & sound quality in the context of an existing iPhone portable rig.  
   
  At $250 the Dragonfly is at a price where I have to justify it in my own mind as something that has an advantage over whatever I currently have.  At $150-200 I might not even have to think


----------



## slawterjoe

Looks interesting


----------



## Chefano

Well Im waiting my ODAC/O2, Im about to receive it.
  And Ive just placed an order on DragonFly, I can make a review comparing both =D


----------



## sridhar3

Quote: 





chefano said:


> Well Im waiting my ODAC/O2, Im about to receive it.
> And Ive just placed an order on DragonFly, I can make a review comparing both =D


 
   
  Looking forward to it.


----------



## Acix

The DragonFly will also need to compete with the express card Echo Indigo DJx 88.2k/ 96k (with two outputs), or the Indigo IOX version (in/out). Also there is the Indigo old versions with PCMCIA card. The new X version can be fund new on the web for around $180, and the old version for much less.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote: 





acix said:


> The DragonFly will also need to compete with the express card Echo Indigo DJx 88.2k/ 96k (with two outputs), or the Indigo IOX version (in/out). Also there is the Indigo old versions with PCMCIA card. The new X version can be fund new on the web for around $180, and the old version for much less.


 
   
  I hadn't realized they made an ExpressCard version.  Thanks for the information.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





jude said:


> My Thunderpants is out on loan, so I haven't yet tried it with the Dragonfly--I'll let you know when I do.
> 
> As for its power draw: I'm not sure how much power it's drawing to do so, but the Dragonfly will drive the LCD-3. I've mostly used it so far with a few different MacBook Airs, an old MacBook Pro, and will be using it with the latest MacBook Pro with Retina display whenever it arrives (probably not for a few weeks). I'll bring home an old Samsung Windows netbook today, and see how it does with that.
> 
> (Let me know if I misunderstood your question.)


 
   
  Hi Jude, my main thing is knowing how long I can go if I were for instance to use this to drive my TP1s without having to use the charger.  Basically, in my normal use case I can go about 6 hours on battery (light programming work), but I tend to be out at a coffee shop working for 3-4 hours at a time.  If I knew this thing only sapped about 10-20% of my MBA 11"'s battery I'd probably be all over it.  This is the main issue that kept me from picking up a Dacport... its class A operation and whatnot reportedly saps battery life quickly.  The e17 is nice and self powered, but not quite up to the task sonically for my TP1s (for that I take my O2/ODAC make due sitting my an outlet) and for my IEMs I've found just plugging into my headphone out is sufficient vs. carrying an extra device/cable.  This device seems a little too good to be true for my purposes, just getting a confirmation on the power draw is the only thing holding me back.


----------



## Mkubota1

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> well not in this format but certainly there has been many great sounding DACs in the market in that shape format, for example USB DAC by headstage and Halide design DACS come into mind.


 
  Hmmm... interesting.  But no headphone amp or volume control.
   
  Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Don't call me crazy, but does anybody have thoughts of the Dragonfly vs iPhone for sound quality?
> ...
> At $250 the Dragonfly is at a price where I have to justify it in my own mind as something that has an advantage over whatever I currently have.  At $150-200 I might not even have to think


 
  Not that crazy.  Most people (self included) find the iPhone4/iPod as an excellent source on its own.  I was thinking the same about the price... LOL!  At $200, I probably would've done an Amazon Prime and had it by the weekend.  But all other things equal, cheaper is _always_ better!!!
   
  Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> I hadn't realized they made an ExpressCard version.  Thanks for the information.


 
  It is interesting to see all of the other things that are out there that this thread has brought to light.  Too bad Apple has gone away from the ExpressCard.  I know Apple is still the minority by far, but in this hobby there seems to be a disproportionate amount of MBPs and MacMinis.  With them getting rid of the ExpressCard and the MBAir not having Toslink out, this AQ thing is looking really good.  Plus, this thing would work well for desktop users who can also move it to their laptop when on the go.


----------



## WNBC

It took a lot of fortitude but I held off using Amazon Prime to get it delivered by Saturday and now the cutoff point for Saturday delivery has been reached.  I'm safe for at least the weekend and maybe we'll get more details on iPhone vs Dragonfly. 
   
  Quote: 





mkubota1 said:


> Not that crazy.  Most people (self included) find the iPhone4/iPod as an excellent source on its own.  I was thinking the same about the price... LOL!  At $200, I probably would've done an Amazon Prime and had it by the weekend.  But all other things equal, cheaper is _always_ better!!!


----------



## jude

Quote: 





mkubota1 said:


> I'm assuming that it still uses the same volume buttons on the Macbook keyboard?  If so, that's a HUGE plus for me.  I know you can do <Shift> <Option> <Vol> to get the same 64 steps in 10.7.4; but it's so much easier with one key.  Hmmm... 64 steps.  Is that just a coincidence?
> 
> My only other concern with this and even USB flash drives is the way it sticks out.  I've always worried about breaking something like this, especially if used in places like a cramped airplane seat or on a lumpy bed.  But I guess you can always just get one of these short extensions.  I wonder if AQ would approve.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Mike, it still uses the same volume buttons on the MacBook keyboard. However, you'll still have to do the SHIFT+OPTION+VOL to get the 64 steps. I think it's 16 without the three-key combos (just as it is without the Dragonfly).
   
  I just use the combo or the slider.
   
  Anyone know of a utility or script that defaults the keyboard volume keys on a Mac to the 64-step mode?


----------



## kwkarth

wnbc said:


> It took a lot of fortitude but I held off using Amazon Prime to get it delivered by Saturday and now the cutoff point for Saturday delivery has been reached.  I'm safe for at least the weekend and maybe we'll get more details on iPhone vs Dragonfly.




apologies for the slightly off topic question, but where/how can one purchase the AQ Dragonfly from Amazon? I can't seem to find it.
Thx!


----------



## sridhar3

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> apologies for the slightly off topic question, but where/how can one purchase the AQ Dragonfly from Amazon? I can't seem to find it.
> Thx!


 
   
http://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-DragonFly-Asynchronous-Digital-Audio-Converter/dp/B00882U782


----------



## kwkarth

sridhar3 said:


> http://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-DragonFly-Asynchronous-Digital-Audio-Converter/dp/B00882U782




Thank you most kindly!


----------



## sridhar3

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Thank you most kindly!


 
   
  Most welcome, ser.


----------



## mwilson

Would a login item applescript to remap the volume buttons to finer granulation control work for you?
   
  Quote: 





jude said:


> Mike, it still uses the same volume buttons on the MacBook keyboard. However, you'll still have to do the SHIFT+OPTION+VOL to get the 64 steps. I think it's 16 without the three-key combos (just as it is without the Dragonfly).
> 
> I just use the combo or the slider.
> 
> Anyone know of a utility or script that defaults the keyboard volume keys on a Mac to the 64-step mode?


----------



## bobeau

Just found out Steve Guttenberg did a review:
   
  http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-57463791-47/a-tiny-usb-digital-to-analog-converter-from-audioquest/
   
  He loves the DAC portion but is less enthused about the head-amp trying out an M50 & P5, which I find a bit worrisome.  I guess I'll hold out for more impressions, esp if anyone can compare its headamp to an O2 as that is my new transportable standard.


----------



## jude

Quote: 





mwilson said:


> Would a login item applescript to remap the volume buttons to finer granulation control work for you?


 
   
  I think so, mwilson. Do you have one?


----------



## kwkarth

I would be very interested in how this product compares with the HRT Headstreamer. They're both similar, tthough not identical in specs...

HRT:130mW out @ <1 ohm, 1.40VRMS
DF: 150mW out @ ~=12ohms, 2.0VRMS

The HRT consumes 200mA max from the USB bus.

So, the headlamp section seems a little better suited to lower impedance cans on the HRT product, likewise, the DF slightly better for higher impedance cans. Note the much lower impedance, better damping factor in the HRT. 

Don't have any info on the actual DAC used in the HRT product, whereas the DAC In the DF is the ESS Sabre. .

Both devices use asynchronous timing, both devices use digitally controlled analog volume control, 64 steps vs. 50 steps. Both devices accommodate the same resolutions up to 24/96.

The DF product is much smaller, but the HRT appears to be much more rugged and made in the USA. They both should be on a short dongle to eliminate undue stress on the USB port as far as I'm concerned. 

So, the $64k question? Which one sounds better? For me, which one will better drive the LCD2/3?


----------



## kwkarth

From what I can tell, the Centrance product beats both in the headlamp department.


----------



## bobeau

I found a big thread on Computer Audiophile discussing this unit for the past month, which is great as there are several user impressions. Hope this is okay to post:
   
  http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/audioquest-dragonfly-24-96-asynchronous-usb-dac-headphone-amp-12353/
   
  Interesting thing is Gordon Rankin weighs in a few times about development:
   
  post 94:
   
"Halide HD and DragonFly

Companies who work with me to deliver USB dacs can have me design the unit totally or do everything except the interface themselves. Halide designs their own dac circuitry and output designs. I only work on the USB interface section with them. For the DargonFly I did all the design except for the enclosure. Acceptance was done as a team the way all AudioQuest products are designed.

There will be a "Dragon Tail" at some point which has the same look feel as the DragonFly it self and will look as an extension."
   
post 131:
   
"Development on this was done over about 8 to 10 months. Kind of a funny story... I said lets do this and AQ wanted a dac with minimum phase filters. So we made a couple of dacs with the Wolfson 8741 and cap coupled and direct coupled and differential and single ended and if you don't know this every example costs about $10K to do. So we made up five different samples and they all were evaluated by the team and we were getting closer. I said look let me make what I originally suggested and I will pay for it if you don't like it. Well that is what is shipping! There are 107 components on a 0.6"x1.7" four layer board including a ton of regulators and expensive custom capacitors."


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:  
   
  If there's somebody I'd put my faith in to make a good DAC, it's Gordon Rankin.  But that doesn't really shed any light on the amp section.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> If there's somebody I'd put my faith in to make a good DAC, it's Gordon Rankin.  But that doesn't really shed any light on the amp section.


 
   
  Agreed.  Unfortunately not too many people using this with headphones in that thread (some IEMs though). The only comment Gordon seemed to make was this:
   
  "I did a ton of work on the output stage to make it compatible with both line and headphone. I think it works really well with both as it has more drive than required for line and easily 2x more drive for headphones."


----------



## kwkarth

Looks like a BB PCM1793 DAC in the HRT, and a pair of BB2132 opamps. The whole thing looks like a turnkey Ti/BB solution, using a TAS1020B USB controller.

Doh! Found a review of the HRT here on head-fi;

http://www.head-fi.org/t/597886/review-hrt-headstreamer-asynchronous-usb-dac-amp


----------



## wushuliu

HRT dacs are nowhere near as good as dragonfly, centrance, or even odac. Definitely get what you pay for with them and not a penny more IMO.


----------



## Mkubota1

Quote: 





jude said:


> I think so, mwilson. Do you have one?


 
   
  I found this a while back:  http://jurawa.com/notes/item/24-bring-back-fine-grained-volume-control-in-os-x-lion
   
  I actually tried it and it worked.  But for some reason I couldn't make it work with my standard volume keys.  I had to use something different- I chose the arrow keys.  In the end, I didn't like losing those keys, so I just went back to the standard set-up.  That's really too bad about the volume controls being the same 16/64 steps.  That would've been a big motivator for me.


----------



## Currawong

My review is here, if anyone is interested: http://www.head-fi.org/products/audioquest-dragonfly-asynchronous-usb-dac#reviews


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Just found out Steve Guttenberg did a review:
> 
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-57463791-47/a-tiny-usb-digital-to-analog-converter-from-audioquest/
> 
> He loves the DAC portion but is less enthused about the head-amp trying out an M50 & P5, which I find a bit worrisome.  I guess I'll hold out for more impressions, esp if anyone can compare its headamp to an O2 as that is my new transportable standard.


 
  I'll have it next week (it is in UPS' hands from my dealer) and I'll post how it does from my MBP/Amarra combo with the HD650's and the P5's.


----------



## kiteki

> doesn't really shed any light on the amp section.


 
   
  If you look at the specs of the ES9023 there is the off chance they didn't use much extra amplification after the D/A.


----------



## judmarc

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> If there's somebody I'd put my faith in to make a good DAC, it's Gordon Rankin.  But that doesn't really shed any light on the amp section.


 
   
  Gordon actually designs/builds amps, preamps, and guitar amps too, so I think he knows what he's doing pretty well.  (Although his other stuff has tubes - now _that_, in something the size of the Dragonfly, I'd like to see!  Guess it does have das blinkenlights, though, in the form of the color resolution indicator.)


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





judmarc said:


> Gordon actually designs/builds amps, preamps, and guitar amps too, so I think he knows what he's doing pretty well.  (Although his other stuff has tubes - now _that_, in something the size of the Dragonfly, I'd like to see!  Guess it does have das blinkenlights, though, in the form of the color resolution indicator.)


 
  I just think it is remarkable the amount of stuff crammed into this tiny device. For me, as a road warrior, it means one less cable to carry and the smallest truly capable DAC yet!


----------



## bobeau

Alright, ordered with Amazon Prime so it should arrive by Wednesday.
   
  Been listening with a pair of used (ie. broken in) EPH-100s.  The difference between the headphone out on my MBA and O2/ODAC is too dramatic, major eargasm to the latter.  Being these are IEMs I imagine DragonFly will offer similar performance, because the O2/ODAC is too much to lug when I'm having an IEM outing.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Alright, ordered with Amazon Prime so it should arrive by Wednesday.
> 
> Been listening with a pair of used (ie. broken in) EPH-100s.  The difference between the headphone out on my MBA and O2/ODAC is too dramatic, major eargasm to the latter.  Being these are IEMs I imagine DragonFly will offer similar performance, because the O2/ODAC is too much to lug when I'm having an IEM outing.


 
  I enjoyed the Dragonfly at my delear's with my Etymotic HF3's and the ACS custom earplug....I am looking forward to not schlepping my HD650's with me when I travel.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I enjoyed the Dragonfly at my delear's with my Etymotic HF3's and the ACS custom earplug....I am looking forward to not schlepping my HD650's with me when I travel.


 
   
  FWIW, I used to have HF2 with ACS, ER4ps, 500/535, and I'm fairly certain this is by far the best IEM experience I've had.  These are the first IEMs that make me feel okay forgetting headphones.  I'm going back and forth between these and my Thunderpants, which are excellent, and don't feel I'm missing too much.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> FWIW, I used to have HF2 with ACS, ER4ps, 500/535, and I'm fairly certain this is by far the best IEM experience I've had.  These are the first IEMs that make me feel okay forgetting headphones.  I'm going back and forth between these and my Thunderpants, which are excellent, and don't feel I'm missing too much.


 
  It took a bit getting the ear molds done and waiting for ACS, but it was well worth it. Much better isolation and deeper bass for sure. I would love to hear the UE's or some of the high end IEM's to compare.Another benefit of the Dragonfly! High quality comparisons without a pile of gear...


----------



## DefQon

Interesting....it's been a while since I've heard another Audio Request product receive some positive feedback. Heck I still have there original Nitro Pro Music server.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> It took a bit getting the ear molds done and waiting for ACS, but it was well worth it. Much better isolation and deeper bass for sure. I would love to hear the UE's or some of the high end IEM's to compare.Another benefit of the Dragonfly! High quality comparisons without a pile of gear...


 
   
  You might want to give these a shot as they're cheap, $150 (talking about EPH-100)... I too had ACS molds w/ an HF2 and thought they were fine at the time but still much preferred headphones out of my desktop rig.  There's one guy in the EPH thread saying he prefers them to all his higher end IEMs except for Melody Merlins, and they're not far off for the overall enjoyment factor, and at least a couple others claiming they got rid of their headphone collection after getting these.  I think I'm going to be in that latter category, esp. if the DragonFly performs with these like O2/ODAC.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> You might want to give these a shot as they're cheap, $150 (talking about EPH-100)... I too had ACS molds w/ an HF2 and thought they were fine at the time but still much preferred headphones out of my desktop rig.  There's one guy in the EPH thread saying he prefers them to all his higher end IEMs except for Melody Merlins, and they're not far off for the overall enjoyment factor, and at least a couple others claiming they got rid of their headphone collection after getting these.  I think I'm going to be in that latter category, esp. if the DragonFly performs with these like O2/ODAC.


 
  If the current ACS molds will work, that would be fun to try. ACS said they will keep the molds on digital file for 5 years so you can order another set when necessary.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> If the current ACS molds will work, that would be fun to try. ACS said they will keep the molds on digital file for 5 years so you can order another set when necessary.


 
   
  They're fairly large bore dynamic IEMs so probably not.  That said, I find the fit fantastic for me, much better than triple/bi-flange I've used in the past (I can get a seal without having pressure from occlusion and no need for a deep insert).


----------



## longbowbbs

They look good. I'll have to keep an eye out for a pair to demo.  Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## bixby

Well done review Jude, thanks!
   
  Bixby


----------



## belisk

Would also like to know how the amp fairs.
   
  Would it power the Q701?


----------



## LordDantalion

I got tired of battling stuttering with my udac2 on windows 64 bit. So I ordered one of these. Hope is worth it.


----------



## Kojaku

any chance you could bring one of these by the LA Meet, Jude?
   
  Kojaku


----------



## our martin

Sabre 32, very nice It's the best dac chip you can get, it's what all the top stuff from krell and mcintosh use!


----------



## bixby

Quote: 





our martin said:


> Sabre 32, very nice It's the best dac chip you can get, it's what all the top stuff from krell and mcintosh use!


 
  LOL!  
   
  You might find a few folks who would question that.  Besides a dac chip alone does not a top notch dac make


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





our martin said:


> Sabre 32, very nice It's the best dac chip you can get, it's what all the top stuff from krell and mcintosh use!


 
   
  That's incorrect, this is a 24 bit Sabre chip (9023), it tends to show up in alot of devices around the $500 price bracket and is relatively power and cost efficient.
   
  The one people make a fuss over is the 9018.  The only portable device I'm aware of sporting one is the DX100.
   
  EDIT: Sabre marketing material for their various chips: http://www.esstech.com/index.php?p=products_DAC


----------



## our martin

Quote: 





bixby said:


> LOL!
> 
> You might find a few folks who would question that.  Besides a dac chip alone does not a top notch dac make


 
  Question wolfson or burr brown over the sabre 32 chip you mean....And on the 1st page i said thanks jules and it was meant to say thanks jude for the review!


----------



## our martin

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> That's incorrect, this is a 24 bit Sabre chip (9023), it tends to show up in alot of devices around the $500 price bracket and is relatively power and cost efficient.
> 
> The one people make a fuss over is the 9018.  The only portable device I'm aware of sporting one is the DX100.
> 
> EDIT: Sabre marketing material for their various chips: http://www.esstech.com/index.php?p=products_DA


 
*Sorry your right my friend it's the sabre chip not the sabre 32 chip  *
 *Audio DAC Solutions* *



* *The SABRE[size=x-small]32[/size] Reference audio DAC series is the world’s highest performance 32-bit audio DAC solution targeted for consumer applications such as Blu-ray player, audio pre-amplifier, A/V receiver and professional applications such as recording systems, mixer consoles and digital audio workstations. With ESS patented 32-bit Hyperstream™ DAC architecture and Time Domain Jitter Eliminator, the SABRE[size=x-small]32[/size] Reference Stereo DAC delivers an unprecedented DNR of up to 135dB and THD+N of -120dB, the industry’s highest performance level that will satisfy the most demanding audio enthusiasts.*

 *Device* *Description* *Package* *DNR (dB)* *THD (dB)* *I2S/DSD/SPDIF Input* *ES9018* *SABRE[size=x-small]32[/size] Reference 32-bit 8-Channel Audio DAC* *64LQFP* *135 (mono)
 133 (stereo)
 129 (8ch)* *-120* *Yes* *ES9012* *SABRE[size=x-small]32[/size] Reference 32-bit Stereo Audio DAC* *64LQFP* *133* *-120* *Yes*
 *For information about samples or product datasheets, please contact your local ESS Sales Representative.*


   *



*
 
*The ES9016 SABRE[size=x-small]32[/size] Ultra DAC is the latest addition to the world’s highest performance and critically acclaimed SABRE[size=x-small]32[/size] DAC family. With ESS patented 32-bit Hyperstream[size=x-small]TM[/size] DAC architecture and Time Domain Jitter Eliminator, the ES9016 SABRE[size=x-small]32[/size] Ultra DAC delivers spectacular music with an unsurpassed sound stage, with up to 128dB dynamic range and 0.0003% (-110dB) total harmonic distortion, and free from clock jitter common in digital audio systems.*
* *

 *Device* *Description* *Package* *DNR (dB)* *THD (dB)* *I2S/DSD/SPDIF Input* *ES9016* *SABRE[size=x-small]32[/size] Ultra 32-bit 8-Channel Audio DAC* *48-LQFP* *128 (2ch)
 124 (8ch)* *-110* *Yes*
 *For information about samples or product datasheets, please contact your local ESS Sales Representative.*

  

 *



*  *With Integrated 2Vrms Driver*

   
*The SABRE[size=x-small]TM[/size] DAC with integrated ground-centered 2V[size=x-small]rms[/size] driver operates from a single 3.3V power supply to deliver pop-free audio with 112dB of dynamic range, the highest performance of its class. With bill of materials reduced to just a few passive components externally, audiophile sound and quality are now accessible and affordable to any consumer audio products.*
* *

 *Device* *Description* *Package* *DNR (dB)* *Pop-Free* *Power Supply* *ES9023* *SABRE Premier Audio DAC with integrated 2V[size=x-small]rms[/size] Driver* *16-SOP* *112* *Yes* *3.3V*
 *For information about samples or product datasheets, please contact your local ESS Sales Representative.




*
*The SABRE Audio DAC Series is the world’s first 8-channel audio DAC solution to bring true professional digital audio to the mass consumer home entertainment market, setting a new standard for high quality audio performance in a cost effective, compact, easy to use form factor for today’s most demanding digital audio applications.*
* *

 *Device* *Description* *Package* *DNR (dB)* *THD (dB)* *I2S/DSD/SPDIF Input* *ES9008* *SABRE Reference Audio DAC* *64LQFP* *134 (mono)
 128 (8ch)* *-118* *Yes* *ES9006* *SABRE Premier Audio DAC* *48LQFP* *120* *-102* *Yes*
 *For information about samples or product datasheets, please contact your local*


----------



## Cassadian

This may be a bit of sensitive topic here.  However, how would you say this combination compares to the ODA +ODAC combination?  Although he is quite spoken (I am being reserved here), his products have great respect here for his immaculate attention to detail.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





cassadian said:


> This may be a bit of sensitive topic here.  However, how would you say this combination compares to the ODA +ODAC combination?  Although he is quite spoken (I am being reserved here), his products have great respect here for his immaculate attention to detail.


 
   
  It sounds like so far the DAC implementation here is on an equal playing field or perhaps a tad better, but the O2 and esp. ODA will be superior amping.
   
  I have an O2/ODAC JDS combo unit, Dragonfly should be arriving any moment now (out for delivery .  I have Thunderpants, Edition 8s, and EPH-100s to test out with...


----------



## belisk

what opamp chip is it using? if it even has one?
  as the reviews have pointed out, it has trouble running the big guys, but seems to shine using the IEM's.


----------



## Kojaku

I'm wondering what the power draw is on this thing...My Archos 101 g9 will literally power my iPhone, but that has a rechargeable battery...I use it with my FiiO E17, which has a really high power draw (150mw, I think), but again, the E17 has a battery...
   
  Kojaku


----------



## juustinb

Really want one of these now!


----------



## LizardKing1

Quote: 





belisk said:


> as the reviews have pointed out, it has trouble running the big guys, but seems to shine using the IEM's.


 
   
  I didn't see any reviews pointing this about headphones, are you talking about the ones in the Computer Audiophile forum? I'm still waiting for someone with LCD-2 or something really hard to drive to comment, maybe someone did and I didn't notice.


----------



## tzjin

Quote: 





jude said:


> Some of the over-ear headphones I've used with it so far include the beyerdynamic T5p, Sennheiser HD 650, Sennheiser HD 700, Sennheiser HD 800, HiFiMAN HE-400, HiFiMAN HE-6, Audeze LCD-2, Audeze LCD-3, and the Fostex TH-900. And I'll continue to use the Dragonfly with those, with the exceptions of the HE-6 and the HD 800. With the HE-6, it simply felt underpowered, which is not anything for the diminutive Dragonfly to be ashamed of, as many dedicated desktop amps shrink at the sight of this headphone. The HD 800 could be driven by the Dragonfly to volume levels exceeding what I can tolerate, but sounds rather dry in this pairing, relative to my favorite HD800-driving amps. With the other headphones, though, it's easy to find satisfaction, and I've already used it as a hotel rig with the Audeze LCD-3, and it helped keep me from missing my primary rigs while away.


 
   
  I'm still stunned it can drive those full-sized headphones.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





tzjin said:


> I'm still stunned it can drive those full-sized headphones.


 
   
  My initial impression driving Thunderpants is they're a bit underdriven.  I'm pushing the volume near the top of the DragonFly's output to what seems like what would be approx. 3 o' clock on my O2/ODAC on unity gain... bass is a tad weak, and treble is a bit sharp.  It's somewhat collapsed sounding in comparison to the O2/ODAC.
   
  Driving my EPH-100s I'm undecided... it's almost in the other direction, the lower end can be bloomy and treble feels smoothed out, but that might also be a lack of digititus.  I think this is something I'm going to have to live with a few days then go back and compare.  I could very well come away falling in love with this pairing, and that's what I primarily bought it for.


----------



## LoveKnight

I would like to know about your impressions, comparison between these two combos, Dragonfly + C421 and ODAC + C421. I have already known that Jude said the amplifier of Dragonfly is just so so not good or not bad when he compared to some low-end amplifiers. What I am truly interested in is about the quality of the DAC of Dragonfly. Thanks!


----------



## kiteki

cassadian said:


> This may be a bit of sensitive topic here.  However, how would you say this combination compares to the ODA +ODAC combination?  Although he is quite spoken (I am being reserved here), his products have great respect here for his immaculate attention to detail.


 
   
  More like immaculate attention to his penta-digit costing dScope while using Sony EX71 Fontopia IEM's.
   
  Some of the first people that built the O2 in Hong Kong put AD797 in it and decided that _sounds_ better, that's all I have to say on that.


----------



## bobeau

Anyone finding burn-in having any impact?  I only have about 4-5 hours on it now.
   
  EDIT: Anyone know the output impedance on this thing?  The spec says it will drive 12+ ohms.


----------



## recca

danba said:


> Does the DragonFly interwork with the Android-powered smartphone Samsung Galaxy S III?
> 
> The Samsung Galaxy S III can interwork with some bus-powered USB DAC, without using a self-powered USB hub:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs-how-to-increase-the-issues-priority-with-google/60#post_8468969




Definitely interested in this. I know it won't work with iPad, but confirmation on android would be appreciated.


----------



## Kojaku

recca said:


> Definitely interested in this. I know it won't work with iPad, but confirmation on android would be appreciated.




I know thy android devices, even ones without output limits on their USB OTG, usually can't host purely bus-powered devices unless the draw power is exceedingly low. The Dragonfly doesn't have a battery pack...so I don't quite know how this'd work out. That's why I asked if Jude (or anyone else) could bring one by the LAX meet, since I'd be bringing my porta-reference rig and my Archos 101g9 doesn't have hosting limits (I've literally charged my iPhone from it).

Kojaku


----------



## longbowbbs

Well, I have had a few hours with the Dragonfly and I have been using it with my HP Elite PC using JRiver 17 running hi res .WAV and FLAC files. Fun to watch the magenta color represent 24/96 files vs Green for regular 44.1. I like it and I am anxious to see if there is a burn in effect that is significant.


----------



## recca

I have my hopes up since the galaxy s3 can reportedly power the odac.


----------



## Kojaku

recca said:


> I have my hopes up since the galaxy s3 can reportedly power the odac.




The odac is bus-powered, right?

Kojaku


----------



## recca

Yep I think so.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





loveknight said:


> I would like to know about your impressions, comparison between these two combos, Dragonfly + C421 and ODAC + C421. I have already known that Jude said the amplifier of Dragonfly is just so so not good or not bad when he compared to some low-end amplifiers. What I am truly interested in is about the quality of the DAC of Dragonfly. Thanks!


 
   
  So this is interesting... I tried out the Dragonfly -> O2.  Oddly enough, I'm not finding quite as much difference as I was expecting vs the Dragonfly by itself.  As in I don't know if I could really pass a blind test.  This was both with the EPH-100 and Thunderpants, which today trying out they seem more palatable than initial impressions... now they don't really seem to be lacking with those.
   
  I'm just going to let these this little guy continuously burn-in for awhile driving the TP1s and try to put at least 50 hours on it before commenting further.
   
  EDIT: A note on power draw.  I guess this thing is specced to power up to 125 mw or is that actual draw?  In any case, I'm pleasantly surprised to find it has a fairly negligible impact on my 11" Macbook Air.  When driving my Thunderpants it appears to add about a 12% or so load (about 4 bars from max volume) vs. driving at a similar volume from the headphone out.  Driving my EPH-100 I'm getting a small reduction in load, maybe about 8-9% or so at about 4 bars from the bottom.


----------



## kiteki

Not sure if you'll get the optimal voltage from a smartphone, i.e. anything less than 3.3V.  You can try, but an ultra tiny laptop with USB and a nice media player seems like the higher quality choice to me.


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> So this is interesting... I tried out the Dragonfly -> O2.  Oddly enough, I'm not finding quite as much difference as I was expecting vs the Dragonfly by itself.  As in I don't know if I could really pass a blind test.  This was both with the EPH-100 and Thunderpants, which today trying out they seem more palatable than initial impressions... now they don't really seem to be lacking with those.


 
   
  I had much the same experience plugging it in as a source to my L3. While the L3 makes a significant difference used with my Fostex HP-P1, it didn't seem to do anything for the Dragonfly.  However, with complex music the situation might be different, as the Dragonfly can get a bit blurry with, say, dramatic orchestral works.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





currawong said:


> I had much the same experience plugging it in as a source to my L3. While the L3 makes a significant difference used with my Fostex HP-P1, it didn't seem to do anything for the Dragonfly.  However, with complex music the situation might be different, as the Dragonfly can get a bit blurry with, say, dramatic orchestral works.


 
   
  I've spent a few more hours with it today and I go back and forth.  The O2 definitely has a a bit of an edge with the Thunderpants, but it's not as large as I first thought... I do feel that this guy might have a rather high (10 ohm?) output impedance that with my IEMs fairly complex or bassy passages there is congestion and lack of snap in the bottom end.  It's odd, because tonality of a drum or snare whack sounds accurate, but it lacks bite.  The pluck of the bass strings are somewhat lost in the mix.  That's just for my 16 ohm EPH-100s, the 50 ohm Thunderpants don't seem to suffer from that, if anything they're just a tiny beat lean in the bottom, but the dynamics are there.
   
  Just tried the ferrite USB cable from my ODAC on the E17, believe it or not I'm thinking I prefer that for my IEMs vs. the Dragonfly.  Overall the DF sounds better, smoother... but it's just lacking a snap to the sound and perhaps better separation.
   
  Alright, I just broke my promise to not lend further impressions.  I'll try to hold off for now


----------



## LoveKnight

Thanks bobeau. Has anyone tried to use the Dragonfly with a console yet? In this commercial video, it writes that you can use the Dragonfly for gaming too. Is it truth?


----------



## longbowbbs

According to the Audioquest web site you can use it as long as there is a USB port that the audio out can be directed through.


----------



## Chefano

Ive just received mine!!
  Im simply loving this little thing!! 
  Quick tested some headphones here, and it sounds so good!! 
  IMHO the macbook air heaphone out is crap, now using dragonfly is a diff. history.
  Tested so far, 
  IE80, FX700, PortaPro, ESW9, ES7, K701.
  All sounded good, except k701.
   
  I could measure the output impedance. Anybody could help ( should it be done turned on, off, playing ?)


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





chefano said:


> Ive just received mine!!
> Im simply loving this little thing!!
> Quick tested some headphones here, and it sounds so good!!
> IMHO the macbook air heaphone out is crap, now using dragonfly is a diff. history.
> ...


 
  Have you tried any Hi-Res files? I get a kick out of the color indicating the rez....I am enjoying a lossless file at 96K and the Dragonfly is Magenta....I like it.


----------



## Chefano

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Have you tried any Hi-Res files? I get a kick out of the color indicating the rez....I am enjoying a lossless file at 96K and the Dragonfly is Magenta....I like it.


 
  Not yet, so far just 16/44. 
  Tomorrow I plan to listen to some music from HDTracks.
  Just one question, If you play a "silent" track and change the volume, can you hear some clicks? Im asking that because I can, dont know if its an issue or its just fine.


----------



## ellenico

How does it compare with Fiio E10 or NuForce Udac2 ?


----------



## LordDantalion

I have both now. Likethe dragonfly a lot better on all aspects for laptop use. I had a lot of issues with my udac2 on Windows 7 64-bit


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





chefano said:


> Not yet, so far just 16/44.
> Tomorrow I plan to listen to some music from HDTracks.
> Just one question, If you play a "silent" track and change the volume, can you hear some clicks? Im asking that because I can, dont know if its an issue or its just fine.


 
  I am not noticing any popping. I do get a ding from the system tones as I adjust volume, but when I disable it, there is not popping sound for volume changes.


----------



## bobeau

Alright, with 20 hours under my belt of listening I'm shipping this guy back.  I'm not getting the changes to the signature I was hoping for.
   
  To be clear, it actually sounds pretty fantastic with my Thunderpants... not quite to the level of O2/ODAC - it's just a bit lean/flat by comparison, but just a bit, which is pretty outrageous considering it's entirely USB bus powered and barely drags down the battery on my power thrifty MBA.  The DAC portion to my ears outshines the ODAC and running the Dragonfly -> O2 is absolutely stellar - very detailed, lack of digital hash, dynamic, tight, crisp... a dynamite pairing, both with the Thunderpants and EPH-100.  The DAC implementation here is crazy good for the price and convenience.
   
  But that's not what I bought it for, and with its headphone out -> my 16 ohm EPH-100, which to be honest are warm by their nature, it just pushes things into an unsavory territory descending into mush on more complex or bassy music.  If I were rocking a leaner and/or higher impedance BA IEM I'm sure it would be sublime, but I am rather attached to a minimal setup and find the EPH-100 a very good match for my sonic preferences.  With it I even prefer the headphone out of my Macbook Air to the Dragonfly, and doing some research I now understand a bit more why.
   
  Just to be clear - I think this is a fantastic product, a real game changer.  If like with the Dacport there were a $100 option for lowering the impedance to 1 ohm I'd be all over it.  With the right cans you're probably bumping up close to the point of quickly diminishing returns for something that is the size of a typical thumb drive.  The build quality is awesome, the analog volume control is slick and works as advertised.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Alright, with 20 hours under my belt of listening I'm shipping this guy back.  I'm not getting the changes to the signature I was hoping for.
> 
> To be clear, it actually sounds pretty fantastic with my Thunderpants... not quite to the level of O2/ODAC - it's just a bit lean/flat by comparison, but just a bit, which is pretty outrageous considering it's entirely USB bus powered.  The DAC portion to my ears outshines the ODAC and running the Dragonfly -> O2 is absolutely stellar - very detailed, lack of digital hash, dynamic, tight, crisp... a dynamite pairing, both with the Thunderpants and EPH-100.
> 
> But that's not what I bought it for, and with its headphone out -> my 16 ohm EPH-100, which to be honest are warm by their nature, it just pushes things into an unsavory territory descending into mush.  If I were rocking a leaner and/or higher impedance BA IEM I'm sure it would be sublime, but I am rather attached to a minimal setup and find the EPH-100 a very good match for my sonic preferences.  With it I even prefer the headphone out of my Macbook Air to the Dragonfly, and doing some research I now understand a bit more why.


 
  I spoke with Alasdair at Audioquest today, (I lost the USB Cap already...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ) He and I got into a "Burn In" conversation. The view of the AQ folks is that the Dragonfly should be at its best after 150 hours of so of burn in. So sending it back after 20 may be premature.


----------



## Chefano

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Alright, with 20 hours under my belt of listening I'm shipping this guy back.  I'm not getting the changes to the signature I was hoping for.
> 
> To be clear, it actually sounds pretty fantastic with my Thunderpants... not quite to the level of O2/ODAC - it's just a bit lean/flat by comparison, but just a bit, which is pretty outrageous considering it's entirely USB bus powered and barely drags down the battery on my power thrifty MBA.  The DAC portion to my ears outshines the ODAC and running the Dragonfly -> O2 is absolutely stellar - very detailed, lack of digital hash, dynamic, tight, crisp... a dynamite pairing, both with the Thunderpants and EPH-100.  The DAC implementation here is crazy good for the price and convenience.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I totally agree with you, it pushes things into warm terrytory. 
  When listening to complex music or music that presents microdetails, I still prefer the macbook pro headphone out.
  Today I was listening to Getz&Gilberto #2 (1993 Verve CD) on the HA-FX700, and I miss some  microdetail and stage performance offered by macbook pro out I really miss the soundstage of the live recording.. =(


----------



## longbowbbs

Clearly, based on Audioquests comments, without sufficient burn in time (Which we would expect with any other DAC) you cannot make a determination of what the ultimate sound quality will be like.  I have been burning in for about 50 hours so far. I'll get to it after it gets a good 150+ based on AQ's recommendation.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Clearly, based on Audioquests comments, without sufficient burn in time (Which we would expect with any other DAC) you cannot make a determination of what the ultimate sound quality will be like.  I have been burning in for about 50 hours so far. I'll get to it after it gets a good 150+ based on AQ's recommendation.


 
   
  I don't know... I don't find it warm at all with my Thunderpants, of course, that could be because they're slightly underdriven.
   
  Dollars to donuts I feel this has probably the somewhat typical 10 ohm output impedance you find in many consumer audio products that try to drive a large majority of headphones, to keep hiss/noise/popping down.
   
  That said, in the name of all things head-fi it would behoove me to burn them in so I can give a more proper assessment, so I'll throw it on my mac mini and let music play through the weekend.  
   
  I also called Audioquest and the guy had no idea and told me to send them an email which I did.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> I don't know... I don't find it warm at all with my Thunderpants, of course, that could be because they're slightly underdriven.
> 
> Dollars to donuts I feel this has probably the somewhat typical 10 ohm output impedance you find in many consumer audio products that try to drive a large majority of headphones, to keep hiss/noise/popping down.


 
  If so, it is a big disappointment for Audioquest and Gordon Rankin. There is a lot going on within those four packed layers of circuit board.


----------



## tzjin

Has anybody measured the output impedance of this guy? Like bobeau, I think that's what's causing the excessive boominess of his EPH100's. The 50 ohm T50RP would be significantly less affected by this.


----------



## Chefano

I can measure.
  I just dont know how to properly measure it. I have the DMM


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> If so, it is a big disappointment for Audioquest and Gordon Rankin. There is a lot going on within those four packed layers of circuit board.


 
   
  I don't really think so, it might be overly difficult given the packaging/proximity to the USB bus to make it noise free at a minimal output impedance.  Just an engineering decision to open it up for better performance with the vast majority of headphones.


----------



## tzjin

There's some information here. http://www.head-fi.org/t/169458/measuring-impedance-for-dummies


----------



## bobeau

Just got a response from Steve Silberman from Audioquest.  He doesn't seem to want to answer this question and instead asked me about my setup, if there's an issue there.  Gordon Rankin also ignored it on ComputerAudiophile and said they're designed to drive phones from 12 ohms.
   
  I don't understand what the big deal is, it's something alot of headamp manufacturers (albeit likely smaller companies) seem to be alright posting.  CEntrance is open about their products having a default 10 ohm output with the option to dial it down to 1 ohm.


----------



## longbowbbs

I would expect they are shooting for a wide audience, many of whom have never used a DAC before. Heck, most folks headphones don't cost as much as the Dragonfly! I certainly don't expect it to replace a great stand alone DAC like a W4S DAC2 or a Benchmark, but it is an improvement over the stock MBPro audio jack.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I would expect they are shooting for a wide audience, many of whom have never used a DAC before. Heck, most folks headphones don't cost as much as the Dragonfly! I certainly don't expect it to replace a great stand alone DAC like a W4S DAC2 or a Benchmark, but it is an improvement over the stock MBPro audio jack.


 
   
  Indeed.  The headphone out of the DF -> Thunderpants obliterates my MBAs headphone out, as does the DF -> O2 -> EPH-100.  That said I find my MBA's headphone out -> EPH-100 preferable to DF -> EPH-100.
   
  Again, I think the DAC implementation here is crazy good, that's certainly not part of the issue.
   
  Steve again asked about my setup which I don't see has any bearing, I've isolated the issue to the headamp.  As well he said he'd forward it to Gordon.  They're not going to give an answer here so if a kinda head-fier could measure...


----------



## longbowbbs

Which MBA do you have. I had read on CNET that one of the newer MBA's had an improved Audio out from the earlier versions. I don't remember what was changed, just that something had been upgraded, My MBP is a Mid '09 and I am (at about 50+ hours burn in so far) getting a clear improvement from the DF vs the MBP direct. I will do a direct comparison to the NuForce uDAC2 once I get past 200+ hours. Funny, I connect the uDAC2 to the MBP via an AQ cable..


----------



## Chefano

Please read the post 321, for correct measurments:
   
post #321


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





chefano said:


> According to my measurements: *4.77Ohms* at 1KHz Sine 0dfs
> 
> Load Used: 49.9Ohms
> Unloaded: 2.084 Vrms
> ...


 
  You'll have to help me with this. I appreciate your getting the numbers, but I have no idea what they mean.


----------



## tzjin

Thanks Chefano!
   
  Since 16 ohm EPH-100 is eight times the impedance of the output, the frequency response is affected. Typically, a warmer, boomier sound results.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> You'll have to help me with this. I appreciate your getting the numbers, but I have no idea what they mean.


 
   
  Well, the rule of thumb I've seen is you want output impedance to be 1/8th or less than headphone impedance, but this isn't a hard set rule as it varies by load, but a general rule.  I'm not sure how the load of 49 ohms plays into this.
   
  I guess this means a headphone should be 38 ohms or greater for this unit?  
   
  Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but this seems to be the issue I'm experiencing.  All my other headphone outs I've used this with (MBA out, E17, and O2) measure < 1 ohm, and they all have a pretty similar signature, fairly tight and crisp, but the better ones with more clarity/dynamics/detail.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Which MBA do you have. I had read on CNET that one of the newer MBA's had an improved Audio out from the earlier versions. I don't remember what was changed, just that something had been upgraded, My MBP is a Mid '09 and I am (at about 50+ hours burn in so far) getting a clear improvement from the DF vs the MBP direct. I will do a direct comparison to the NuForce uDAC2 once I get past 200+ hours. Funny, I connect the uDAC2 to the MBP via an AQ cable..


 
   
  I am using a new 2k12 11".  The audio out is surprisingly good, I'm not even sure if I might prefer it to my E17 with the EPH-100 as well.  I think I've just out of hand dismissed it as being not good due to confirmation bias from hearing how craptastic Macbook audio outs are over the years.  I'm coming around on this now as I've tested it against the Dragonfly and scratching my head wondering if my hearing is shot or something... then I see the article on Voldemort's blog and it's beginning to make sense.  It struggles with the Thunderpants of course and does seem like it could be a bit more refined, a little etchy, but overall does the trick pretty well.
   
  There is no doubt though that the DF -> O2 -> EPH-100 is a class or two above... man if I could just get that sound through the DF hp out I would be in heaven


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> There is no doubt though that the DF -> O2 -> EPH-100 is a class or two above... man if I could just get that sound through the DF hp out I would be in heaven


 
   
  Reminds of one of the photos Mkubota1 posted from the Tokyo meet. A guy had about 5 devices strapped together for his portable rig. It was about 7 inches high.. Sometimes you wonder what it takes to have some simple high quality portable sound.


----------



## LizardKing1

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Alright, with 20 hours under my belt of listening I'm shipping this guy back.  I'm not getting the changes to the signature I was hoping for.
> 
> To be clear, it actually sounds pretty fantastic with my Thunderpants... not quite to the level of O2/ODAC - it's just a bit lean/flat by comparison, but just a bit, which is pretty outrageous considering it's entirely USB bus powered and barely drags down the battery on my power thrifty MBA.  The DAC portion to my ears outshines the ODAC and running the Dragonfly -> O2 is absolutely stellar - very detailed, lack of digital hash, dynamic, tight, crisp... a dynamite pairing, both with the Thunderpants and EPH-100.  The DAC implementation here is crazy good for the price and convenience.


 
   
  I don't understand. If you're running the DF's headphone-out into the O2's line-in shouldn't the fact that you're double amping just have the DF's issues? It's not like you're using a line-out, so it's hard to say for sure how good the DAC is because you're not bypassing the amp.
  As for sounding better, is it because the DF has a high output impedance and that only matters when the headphones are the load (in this case it's the O2)? By the way, don't mistake my ignorance for arrogance.


----------



## MickeyVee

Interesting.. if you take a look at what Jude liked the DF with, they're high impedance cans.  I'm thinking of getting the DF for my HE400 (45 ohm) and v-Moda M80 (28.5 ohm).  I'll have to give it a good listen to before I commit. (also have the FiiO E10 (rarely used), E17 and Audioengine D1).  Looking for a very portable solution with my Macbook Air so I'm hoping the DF & M80 would be a good combo.
  Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Well, the rule of thumb I've seen is you want output impedance to be 1/8th or less than headphone impedance, but this isn't a hard set rule as it varies by load, but a general rule.  I'm not sure how the load of 49 ohms plays into this.
> 
> I guess this means a headphone should be 38 ohms or greater for this unit?
> 
> Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but this seems to be the issue I'm experiencing.  All my other headphone outs I've used this with (MBA out, E17, and O2) measure < 1 ohm, and they all have a pretty similar signature, fairly tight and crisp, but the better ones with more clarity/dynamics/detail.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





lizardking1 said:


> I don't understand. If you're running the DF's headphone-out into the O2's line-in shouldn't the fact that you're double amping just have the DF's issues? It's not like you're using a line-out, so it's hard to say for sure how good the DAC is because you're not bypassing the amp.
> As for sounding better, is it because the DF has a high output impedance and that only matters when the headphones are the load (in this case it's the O2)? By the way, don't mistake my ignorance for arrogance.


 
   
  It it using a line out - the jack does double duty.  With headphones it uses the amp, as a line out the head-amp is bypassed.  This was designed to be used as a DAC only.  The majority of folks over in ComputerAudiophile are using this for this purpose to drive speakers.
   
  As Gordon wrote on CA: "I did a ton of work on the output stage to make it compatible with both line and headphone. I think it works really well with both as it has more drive than required for line and easily 2x more drive for headphones."


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> It it using a line out - the jack does double duty.  With headphones it uses the amp, as a line out the head-amp is bypassed.  This was designed to be used as a DAC only.  The majority of folks over in ComputerAudiophile are using this for this purpose to drive speakers.
> 
> As Gordon wrote on CA: "I did a ton of work on the output stage to make it compatible with both line and headphone. I think it works really well with both as it has more drive than required for line and easily 2x more drive for headphones."


 
  You have to love input from the designer.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> You have to love input from the designer.


 
   
  I'll be honest, I'm not sure if I'm interpreting this incorrectly and if it is indeed double-amped, nor how that might have an impact when fed to another amp.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> I'll be honest, I'm not sure if I'm interpreting this incorrectly and if it is indeed double-amped, nor how that might have an impact when fed to another amp.


 
  The web site is not clear on this. I think a call to Alasdair at AQ is in order. He knows his stuff.


----------



## LoveKnight

I read on CA and if I remember correctly you can use Dragonfly as a DAC. Just turn on the volume to max 100 and use an interconnect cable to an amp or you can use it as a preamp. Maybe the document or manual could state that thing.
   
  Thanks bobeau again. Now I know Dragonfly is better than ODAC. I think I am not going to buy an ODAC, just saving money to buy a Dragonfly and I use it as a DAC for a better soulution for me.


----------



## longbowbbs

loveknight said:


> I read on CA and if I remember correctly you can use Dragonfly as a DAC. Just turn on the volume to max 100 and use an interconnect cable to an amp or you can use it as a preamp. Maybe the document or manual could state that thing.
> 
> Thanks bobeau again. Now I know Dragonfly is better than ODAC. I think I am not going to buy an ODAC, just saving money to buy a Dragonfly and I use it as a DAC for a better soulution for me.




The manual is smaller than the Dragonfly...seriously!


----------



## Chefano

Quote: 





chefano said:


> According to my measurements: *4.77Ohms* at 1KHz Sine 0dfs
> 
> Load Used: 49.9Ohms
> Unloaded: 2.084 Vrms
> ...


 
  Thats measurements are wrong, please see the post #321
post #321


----------



## kiteki

longbowbbs said:


> chefano said:
> 
> 
> > According to my measurements: *4.77Ohms* at 1KHz Sine 0dfs
> ...


 
   
  Very little, unless you're using something like the Sony XBA-3 / XBA-4 (12 / 8 ohm), in which case they'll sound a bit brighter and thinner.
   
   


lizardking1 said:


> bobeau said:
> 
> 
> > The DAC portion to my ears outshines the ODAC and running the Dragonfly -> O2 is absolutely stellar - very detailed, lack of digital hash, dynamic, tight, crisp... a dynamite pairing, both with the Thunderpants and EPH-100.  The DAC implementation here is crazy good for the price and convenience.
> ...


 
   
  The ES9023 has an integrated op-amp inside of it if you looked at their .PDF I linked?  It's like a DAC and amplifier in one, a lot of DAC chips are like that.
   
If they both use this chip, neither the ODAC nor the DF can truly 'bypass the amp' section.
   
  If he's connecting both into the O2, the output impedance of the DF doesn't have any effect, whether it's 4 ohm or 40 ohm.
   
  If the DF is using additional amplification after the ES9023, like LME49990 (just a wild guess) that could account for the enhancement in sound / higher performance in the DF.


----------



## FasterThanEver

Questions for those using a DragonFly with a Windows PC.  What level of CPU utilization are you seeing in Task Manager while you play music?  What CPU does your PC have?
   
  Bill


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





fasterthanever said:


> Questions for those using a DragonFly with a Windows PC.  What level of CPU utilization are you seeing in Task Manager while you play music?  What CPU does your PC have?
> 
> Bill


 

 Not what you asked, but results should be similar ..... I'm using a FIIO E17 over USB on Windows XP Pro on a not-so state of the art Pentium D 2.8 GHz and the pertinent process (plugin-container.exe) runs at 5-6 %.  My System Idle Process is about 85-90%.  CPU Usage runs about 10%.


----------



## jrosenth

I've had one of these for a while now (pre-ordered from music direct) - and it is a stellar little device.
   
  As a dac it's lights out.  
   
  A step up or half step up from say even a pico dac.
   
  The amp is nice - but to my ears needs a little extra help to push harder to drive cans (but even that is all sins of omission, nothing glaring).
   
  Even something like a stepdance or graham slee voyager will give it a notable presence and power in the lower regions, that is rather notably missing head to head without it.
   
  To give context - amp is clearly a portable vs a desktop - when going head to head with a Melos, Bottlhead, etc.
   
  The dac could be mistaken for a mid-fi-ish desktop dac.  But head to head with even an HRT Pro, the hrt is a notable and obvious step up.
   
  Now comparing an HRT Pro and Melos set up, you're moving to multiples up of price and you loose not only portability but pocket-ability - but  gives it some context.
   
  All that said, it's fantastic - for the money, and size, it's mind boggling.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





jrosenth said:


> The amp is nice - but to my ears needs a little extra help to push harder to drive cans (but even that is all sins of omission, nothing glaring).
> 
> All that said, it's fantastic - for the money, and size, it's mind boggling.


 
   
  I don't know if it's fair to fault the amp in something like this... seeing as it's entirely bus powered and they have a specific power envelope they need to stick too.  One thing is Steve from Audioquest said this is the first of several devices of its ilk that will be coming out.  One of these apparently will have a built-in battery which may allow for better power delivery at the cost of size convenience.
   
  I sent mine back already as it doesn't appear it is ideal for my specific application, but don't get me wrong - this is next level stuff.  If I were intent on keeping my Thunderpants I would hold onto it.  If you have cans that fit the bill and you're a road warrior get this ASAP.  Apparently Audioquest dealers will allow free overnight trials, I purchased mine thru Amazon Prime so returns are easy... it's very much worth checking out. 
   
  To think what an impact the Hiface made just what, a couple years ago?  Now for $50 more you can get a pretty killer DAC *with* a top notch async implementation and headamp... in a smaller package.  With analog control that hooks into your system.  Mind blown.    It excites me to see what other products will be coming out in this domain.


----------



## WNBC

Really, which dealers are doing such trials?  That's pretty cool.
   
  Anybody tried the DF with Hifiman RE-262/272 yet?  On paper the 272 doesn't need amplification but in reality it performs much, much better with the extra juice from my Stepdance over straight out of my iPhone.   
   
  Quote: 





bobeau said:


> I sent mine back already as it doesn't appear it is ideal for my specific application, but don't get me wrong - this is next level stuff.  If I were intent on keeping my Thunderpants I would hold onto it.  If you have cans that fit the bill and you're a road warrior get this ASAP.  Apparently Audioquest dealers will allow free overnight trials, I purchased mine thru Amazon Prime so returns are easy... it's very much worth checking out.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Really, which dealers are doing such trials?  That's pretty cool.


 
   
  Not sure where I saw it, either on their website or mentioned by Steve in some forum, but apparently any Audioquest dealer will do this.  They have quite a few dealers US so if you're in a major metro area you probably can find one.


----------



## Lan647

Can you get this to work with Android phones now that they'll support USB audio?


----------



## melomaniac

Quote: 





sling5s said:


> Any comparisons to the Centrance Dacport?   Quality of sound and power?  Is it on the bright side, or dark side, neutral?
> 
> thanks


----------



## jrosenth

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> I don't know if it's fair to fault the amp in something like this... seeing as it's entirely bus powered and they have a specific power envelope they need to stick too.


 
   
  Umm.. yeah.
   
  (One of the reasons I tend not to post here as of late is around this sort of stuff - also please understand all the typical qualification - to my ears, you milage may very etc.)
   
  My idea is to put some context around this - as in spell out the rough range where it competes - (and obviously there are a host of reasons where it does or does not sit - size, power, chip, etc. - but that's not my concern to elucidate here).
   
  To clarify:
   
  Amp - better than anything of it's size, but somewhat lacking behind a good portable amp (and not even the highest of the high end portables, but to my ears clearly a step below even a stepdance or graham slee voyager).  Definitely behind even a mid fi desktop amp (Melos, Bottlehead, Dynalo, etc.).  (And this was not only with the usual suspects Beyer 880, etc but even with Grados ranging from RS-1 to SR 225 - obviously not as noticable with the grados going down the scale but still there - audible to my ears with even an ATH-M50).
   
  DAC - better than portable dacs i've hear like pico, which i love for what it is (no comment on centrace, which would be a great comparison).  But, neck and neck with mid fi destop DAC, falling in between an HRT II+ and and HRT Pro.
   
  That in itself is amazing, much less the size and price, but it you're interested in some portable drive you'd be best to consider using it as a dac and getting a little dedicated portable amp (i don't use IEM, so have no idea have they would turn out).
   
  again, all to my ears, YMMV, etc.
   
  but these were my questions before buying it (just couldn't wait).


----------



## Chefano

IMHO
  You cant go wrong for $250.
  This little combo has no competition for that price.
  I only would have some concerns if primary used with low impedance headphones.


----------



## LoveKnight

The AudioQuest Dragonfly is between a HRT II+ and a HRT Pro. Thanks and I will take a note of it. Oh by the way, HRT Pros are sale off on Amazon.


----------



## Wavelength

Guys,
   
  Look the output impedance is 0.8ohms max... you cannot measure this kind of low output impedance with a freaken fluke meter.
   
  Common guys get with the plan!
   
  Look headphones and headphone amps are personal. Not all are going to work to the ability you want them to. If you don't like it change the amp or change the cans. It's your choice... but really don't start making up specs that you cannot even back up with a freaken $100 meter.
   
  Thanks
  Gordon


----------



## bobeau

Already responded on CA but will just say thanks Gordon for stepping in and clarifying.
   
  I stand corrected on what I'm perceiving my issue to be with the unit, I should have held onto it and done a proper burn-in.
   
  I'll hold off for awhile and wait for further impressions on how the sonic character changes with burn-in, if all is good I'll likely pick one up again.
   
  Cheers. - Beau


----------



## Chefano

Quote: 





wavelength said:


> Guys,
> 
> Look the output impedance is 0.8ohms max... you cannot measure this kind of low output impedance with a freaken fluke meter.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Wow, That was not polite at all, especially coming from from the designer.
  The impedance output was ballbarking, I dont know whats the problem with a 100$ meter, it has an error, but from 4 Ohm to 0.8Ohm... really hard to believe. The ohm law is the same 
  Great Gordon, when I get back from my vacations I will make sure to test it on a Agilent DSO91304 from the college Lab.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





jrosenth said:


> Umm.. yeah.
> 
> (One of the reasons I tend not to post here as of late is around this sort of stuff - also please understand all the typical qualification - to my ears, you milage may very etc.)


 
   
  Yeah sorry, you're right, in the end the actual performance is what matters.  I'm a software engineer and I tend to forgot this all too often.


----------



## Chefano

Just a very interesting fact.
  Right now I  measured my iphone 4 output and got *1.02 Ohm* using the same methodology as I did before. (yes using a "freaken" cheap DMM)
  Cool isnt it? I think Im not that wrong..
   
  Gonna send my unit back, its out of spec...


----------



## Chefano

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> The web site is not clear on this. I think a call to Alasdair at AQ is in order. He knows his stuff.


 
  Hey *longbowbbs, *do you have Alasdair email?
  I would like it.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## FasterThanEver

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> Not what you asked, but results should be similar ..... I'm using a FIIO E17 over USB on Windows XP Pro on a not-so state of the art Pentium D 2.8 GHz and the pertinent process (plugin-container.exe) runs at 5-6 %.  My System Idle Process is about 85-90%.  CPU Usage runs about 10%.


 
  Useful anyway. Thanks.
   
  I asked about CPU use with the DragonFly DAC because an async mode DAC might require more work  by the device driver at the interrupt level and the DPC level.
   
  Bill


----------



## jrosenth

bobeau - not a problem - i've done chunk of reading an basically had trouble finding someone posting their take on it in a nutshell - where does the amp stand ballpark, what about the dac etc. - what i was shooting to describe as what i would be interested in before purchasing.
   
  love knight - that's my take with me gear and aging ears, but it's at least one data point - will be very interested to see what other folks have to say - but its a great dac for the money - and the size makes it ridiculous. 
   
  there is definitely the plane and coffee house factor - even the small amp/dac i tried to use (pico, P52) seem to just take up more space on the edge of a table/desk/airline tray for some reason - far more than the physical measurements would suggest (clearly psychological, maybe volume knob needing space to use?)/


----------



## longbowbbs

bobeau said:


> Already responded on CA but will just say thanks Gordon for stepping in and clarifying.
> 
> I stand corrected on what I'm perceiving my issue to be with the unit, I should have held onto it and done a proper burn-in.
> 
> ...




I am traveling for a few days ( iPad only) so I left the DF to burn in. It should have around 200 hours on it when I return. I'll give you my impressions then. Hopefully it will be as nice as I expect.


----------



## longbowbbs

chefano said:


> Hey *longbowbbs, *do you have Alasdair email?
> I would like it.
> 
> Thanks!




Info@audioquest.com goes right to him.


----------



## Chefano

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Info@audioquest.com goes right to him.


 
  Thanks.
  I was already using that mail.
  2 days so far, no answer.


----------



## longbowbbs

chefano said:


> Thanks.
> I was already using that mail.
> 2 days so far, no answer.




I actually called and spoke with him. Very knowledgeable and willing to help.


----------



## Chefano

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I actually called and spoke with him. Very knowledgeable and willing to help.


 
  I asked that, because Im noticing that my usb connector started to bend o.O

   
  Is that normal ?


----------



## LoveKnight

No, I do not think this is normal. Hopefully they will release Dragon tail soon. This could be the pressure of headphones, IEMs' cables ... that caused this problem.


----------



## Chefano

Quote: 





loveknight said:


> No, I do not think this is normal. Hopefully they will release Dragon tail soon. This could be the pressure of headphones, IEMs' cables ... that caused this problem.


 
  Ive already ordered an USB adapter. Gonna take some time to get it =(
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/90d-USB-3-0-male-Female-vertical-right-Angled-Adapter-/140567116334?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D673535308057380895%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





loveknight said:


> No, I do not think this is normal. Hopefully they will release Dragon tail soon. This could be the pressure of headphones, IEMs' cables ... that caused this problem.


 
   
  Mine did this out of the box, I thought they designed it to angle downward a bit to relieve pressure.  Guess I must have gotten a used unit?  Hmm, it didn't come sealed.


----------



## Chefano

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Mine did this out of the box, I thought they designed it to angle downward a bit to relieve pressure.  Guess I must have gotten a used unit?  Hmm, it didn't come sealed.


 
  Mine did not come sealed either.


----------



## jude

Quote: 





chefano said:


> I asked that, because Im noticing that my usb connector started to bend o.O
> 
> 
> Is that normal ?


 
   
  I just checked, and mine looks just like that.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





jude said:


> I just checked, and mine looks just like that.


 
   
  Also come to think of it, if you put the end cap on backwards it's way off alignment.  I think this was intentional.


----------



## Lan647

Only for computer use? Not for use with portable players?


----------



## Chefano

Thanks Jude and Bobeau.
  That was worrying me!


----------



## judmarc

Quote: 





lan647 said:


> Only for computer use? Not for use with portable players?


 
   
  If it delivers a PCM stream between 16/44.1 and 24/96 through a usb port, and has the inboard drivers to recognize the Dragonfly (which would usually mean a computer, but could conceivably also apply to a portable player with an operating system), and it delivers sufficient power through the USB port (or you could connect a powered USB hub), then my assumption would be that you could use the Dragonfly with it.


----------



## Lan647

Could any Dragonfly owner who has a Samsung Galaxy, an iPhone or other try to match them?


----------



## bixby

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> It it using a line out - the jack does double duty.  With headphones it uses the amp, as a line out the head-amp is bypassed.  This was designed to be used as a DAC only.  The majority of folks over in ComputerAudiophile are using this for this purpose to drive speakers.
> 
> As Gordon wrote on CA: "I did a ton of work on the output stage to make it compatible with both line and headphone. I think it works really well with both as it has more drive than required for line and easily 2x more drive for headphones."


 
  Probably does work well with both, but I see no way the unit could shut off or bypass its amp since it uses the same output jack for both headphones and line out.  The fact is you are going to get the detriments of a double amped signal even if it is relatively benign.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





bixby said:


> Probably does work well with both, but I see no way the unit could shut off or bypass its amp since it uses the same output jack for both headphones and line out.  The fact is you are going to get the detriments of a double amped signal even if it is relatively benign.


 
   
  You do realize that pretty much every dac out there has an amp right? no dac chip has the current output to drive well anything. This ones amp im pretty sure just has some beefier buffers so its capable of driving headphone loads, and a built in volume control. So what im trying to say is that if you set it to max volume, so youre getting max S/N numbers, that you arent really getting any "effects of double amping"


----------



## bixby

You know you are correct!
   
  Now that I think about it, not like a separate dac and a separate amp, it proabably does not have an impact with the volume all the way up.  Yes, the dac chip would go to a current amp stage that would be attenuated for headphone use.  Assuming a line out target of about 2 volts which is pretty common, the attenuator would just bring the voltage down so a heapdhone could use it without blasting.
   
  thanks for pointing out the errors in my thinking.


----------



## LizardKing1

Quote: 





souprknowva said:


> You do realize that pretty much every dac out there has an amp right? no dac chip has the current output to drive well anything. This ones amp im pretty sure just has some beefier buffers so its capable of driving headphone loads, and a built in volume control. So what im trying to say is that if you set it to max volume, so youre getting max S/N numbers, that you arent really getting any "effects of double amping"


 
   
  But with the volume all the way, being used as a line-out, wouldn't the output voltage be so high that it would clip pretty much anything?


----------



## bixby

no, most line outs strive for about 2 volts output and the input voltage sensitivity of most amps are designed with that figure in mind.  I doubt it will be causing clipping even at full voltage.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





bixby said:


> no, most line outs strive for about 2 volts output and the input voltage sensitivity of most amps are designed with that figure in mind.  I doubt it will be causing clipping even at full voltage.


 
   
  FWIW, the O2 amp was designed to be used either with standard 2 volt line (low gain) or the much lower output found in many DAPs, which I believe is set by default at 6.5x gain.  It tends to clip at high gain with standard voltage.


----------



## raizetcity

hi guys  do you think the dragonfly can match with the burson amp ha 160?could it be a good combo in terms of vocals ?details ?i am using the sen hd 650 and the ultrasone signature pro .
  i must admit i am really exited about the section dac it's so tinny and very affordable.i owned already the fostex hp a3 :  i am curious about the improvement about this dac


----------



## jacknight

Quote: 





jude said:


> I just checked, and mine looks just like that.


 
  hei jude, is this dac really that good? how if we compare DF with something like audinst mx1 or fiio e17? is DF definitely a better dac/amp?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





jacknight said:


> hei jude, is this dac really that good? how if we compare DF with something like audinst mx1 or fiio e17? is DF definitely a better dac/amp?


 
  I now have 250+ hours on the DF. I really like it. However, when I compare it head to head with mu DMPlus I still prefer the DMPlus. For over twice the price I should. Smoother for sure. I am using my HD650's with Toxic Cable Silver Poison's and either MacMini w/ Amarra 2.41 or PC>JRiver 17 both with uncompressed either AIFF or WAV/FLAC. Both beat the straight iPod Classic 7 with all AIFF direct to the Senn's.  As always YMMV....


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





jacknight said:


> hei jude, is this dac really that good? how if we compare DF with something like audinst mx1 or fiio e17? is DF definitely a better dac/amp?


 
   
  I have an E17 and compared them back to back quite a bit (even running the DF -> E17 using the E17's amp).. the DF as a DAC is a solid class, maybe even 2 above.  I thought it even had a bit of an edge over the ODAC which uses the same chip... it fixes up some of the latter's somewhat edgy tendencies.  I speculate this may be due to Gordon's async implementation, a tighter smd packaging, and lack of cable.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> I have an E17 and compared them back to back quite a bit (even running the DF -> E17 using the E17's amp).. the DF as a DAC is a solid class, maybe even 2 above.  I thought it even had a bit of an edge over the ODAC which uses the same chip... it fixes up some of the latter's somewhat edgy tendencies.  I speculate this may be due to Gordon's async implementation, a tighter smd packaging, and lack of cable.


 
  The DF has really smoothed out after I went past the 200 hour mark. I was traveling for 5 days last week so I left the JRiver running hi-res files for 5 straight days. Nice way to grab 120 hours for burn in. Came back to an improved soundstage and a smoother delivery. I am liking the DF very much!


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> The DF has really smoothed out after I went past the 200 hour mark. I was traveling for 5 days last week so I left the JRiver running hi-res files for 5 straight days. Nice way to grab 120 hours for burn in. Came back to an improved soundstage and a smoother delivery. I am liking the DF very much!


 
   
  Awesome!  I may pick one up again if others can independently confirm what the output impedance is (I guess Chefano did this and I concur... don't understand why a garden variety mm would be so crazy off) and the tendencies I heard dissipate with burn-in.  In my case it was overly smooth


----------



## Chefano

As I stated before, IMHO You cant go wrong with It.
  Its so tinny, it sounds so good, It totally worths $250. The only thing that it lacks, is the dragon tail to rotate it 90 degrees. When my usb adapter arrives, the it would be complete!!
  Today Im gonna listen to it using some CD's I use as benchmark and gonna give it 200hs of burn-in. Lets see what happens.


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> The DF has really smoothed out after I went past the 200 hour mark. I was traveling for 5 days last week so I left the JRiver running hi-res files for 5 straight days. Nice way to grab 120 hours for burn in. Came back to an improved soundstage and a smoother delivery. I am liking the DF very much!


 
   
  Quote: 





chefano said:


> As I stated before, IMHO You cant go wrong with It.
> Its so tinny, it sounds so good, It totally worths $250. The only thing that it lacks, is the dragon tail to rotate it 90 degrees. When my usb adapter arrives, the it would be complete!!
> Today Im gonna listen to it using some CD's I use as benchmark and gonna give it 200hs of burn-in. Lets see what happens.


 
   
  I can understand the concept of burn-in for a device with moving parts --- like an automobile engine, or the diaphragm of a speaker, headphone or IEM, but what, exactly, are we burning in on a solid-state device with no moving parts?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> I can understand the concept of burn-in for a device with moving parts --- like an automobile engine, or the diaphragm of a speaker, headphone or IEM, but what, exactly, are we burning in on a solid-state device with no moving parts?


 
  You are literally lining up the molecules inside the electronics to the flow of energy that is going in a particular direction. It takes 150+ hours for them to accept the flows direction and line up. Interestingly, if you do NOT use them for awhile entropy will undo their burn in. This is why expensive cables have the dialectric attached to the cable. To keep a small current moving to prevent the inevitable entropy from reversing the burn in...


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Awesome!  I may pick one up again if others can independently confirm what the output impedance is (I guess Chefano did this and I concur... don't understand why a garden variety mm would be so crazy off) and the tendencies I heard dissipate with burn-in.  In my case it was overly smooth


 
  I think, with DAC's, dealers need to keep burned in units on hand so that the buyer can experience the units in best condition. Then make sure they understand that they will need a break in period. I know if you buy an Audio Research tube piece they actually tell you 500+ hours before best results!


----------



## WNBC

Very interesting, I've never read specific numbers on how many hours it takes to burn a device, specifically about the time it takes molecules to line up in certain way.  Which molecules are we talking about?  Any place I can read up on this further?
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> You are literally lining up the molecules inside the electronics to the flow of energy that is going in a particular direction. It takes 150+ hours for them to accept the flows direction and line up. Interestingly, if you do NOT use them for awhile entropy will undo their burn in. This is why expensive cables have the dialectric attached to the cable. To keep a small current moving to prevent the inevitable entropy from reversing the burn in...


----------



## Chefano

Burn in devices with no moving parts is a really controversial subject.
  Some say the output coupling caps need burn in to achieve its best perfomance (charging discharging cycles) . I do believe in moving parts burn in, but I have nothing to loose =D


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





chefano said:


> Burn in devices with no moving parts is a really controversial subject.
> Some say the output coupling caps need burn in to achieve its best perfomance (charging discharging cycles) . I do believe in moving parts burn in, but I have nothing to loose =D


 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/441507/personal-review-of-zenhead-amp
   
  Steve Deckert from Decware made a comment a few years ago about burn-in in another thread. He does a nice job of describing the process and the potential decay from non use. His comments are the 3rd post of the thread from ZenTriode.


----------



## BobJS

As an electrical engineer (though not an audio specialist) , I'm extremely skeptical of this so called burn in, but I'll see if I can find some more analytical treatments of the subject before dismissing it outright.  Off to google ......


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> As an electrical engineer (though not an audio specialist) , I'm extremely skeptical of this so called burn in, but I'll see if I can find some more analytical treatments of the subject before dismissing it outright.  Off to google ......


 
  I appreciate your desire for quantifiable references. I definitely know what I hear. I am considerably more pleased with the sound after some time with the DF being used.


----------



## jacknight

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I now have 250+ hours on the DF. I really like it. However, when I compare it head to head with mu DMPlus I still prefer the DMPlus. For over twice the price I should. Smoother for sure. I am using my HD650's with Toxic Cable Silver Poison's and either MacMini w/ Amarra 2.41 or PC>JRiver 17 both with uncompressed either AIFF or WAV/FLAC. Both beat the straight iPod Classic 7 with all AIFF direct to the Senn's.  As always YMMV....


 
   
  Quote: 





bobeau said:


> I have an E17 and compared them back to back quite a bit (even running the DF -> E17 using the E17's amp).. the DF as a DAC is a solid class, maybe even 2 above.  I thought it even had a bit of an edge over the ODAC which uses the same chip... it fixes up some of the latter's somewhat edgy tendencies.  I speculate this may be due to Gordon's async implementation, a tighter smd packaging, and lack of cable.


 
   
  i see, so DF is definitely an solid upgrade from $100-200 DAC, but its slightly better than ODAC. isn't it? before i read you post, i am a bit sceptical because its tiny little size
   
  but bobeau said that he used E17 amp section, so is there a line out to bypass DF amp section?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





jacknight said:


> i see, so DF is definitely an solid upgrade from $100-200 DAC, but its slightly better than ODAC. isn't it? before i read you post, i am a bit sceptical because its tiny little size
> 
> but bobeau said that he used E17 amp section, so is there a line out to bypass DF amp section?


 
  No, there is only the USB plug on one end and the 1/8" headphone input on the other. It is as direct as can be. You do have some flexibility on how the amp functions: Quoting the DF FAQ from the Audioquest.com website:
   
  "DragonFly is capable of outputting both a fixed/unity gain as well as variable gain. In order to have full unity gain both the music player’s volume control as well as the computer’s main volume control need to be set to full output. We recommend this whenever using the DragonFly as a source component connected into an A/V or stereo system." source:http://www.audioquest.com/pdfs/dragonfly/DragonFly-Setup-Guide-EN.pdf
   
  I hope that helps!


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> You are literally lining up the molecules inside the electronics to the flow of energy that is going in a particular direction. It takes 150+ hours for them to accept the flows direction and line up. Interestingly, if you do NOT use them for awhile entropy will undo their burn in. This is why expensive cables have the dialectric attached to the cable. To keep a small current moving to prevent the inevitable entropy from reversing the burn in...


 
   
  No offense, and im not saying there is no burn in, but no molecules are lining up. no molecules are moving, the only things moving are the electrons. and even then they are more vibrating back and forth than flowing since audio is an AC wave not DC...at least in cables...there are dc power supplies inside audio equipment of course and electrons would flow in them. but molecules still aint really moving.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





souprknowva said:


> No offense, and im not saying there is no burn in, but no molecules are lining up. no molecules are moving, the only things moving are the electrons. and even then they are more vibrating back and forth than flowing since audio is an AC wave not DC...at least in cables...there are dc power supplies inside audio equipment of course and electrons would flow in them. but molecules still aint really moving.


 
  I am doing my best to describe what the folks at AQ relayed to me.Something has clearly improved over the past 2 weeks.  I'll let the science folks have at it now....I will go back to enjoying the DF and my HD650's. So far it has been an awesome night of listening. I go the new Mark Tremonti CD and it is great!


----------



## Deviltooth

Please let us know what you find out.
   
  The description of molecules alligning sounds a little strange to me as well.


----------



## kwkarth

longbowbbs said:


> You are literally lining up the molecules inside the electronics to the flow of energy that is going in a particular direction. It takes 150+ hours for them to accept the flows direction and line up. Interestingly, if you do NOT use them for awhile entropy will undo their burn in. This is why expensive cables have the dialectric attached to the cable. To keep a small current moving to prevent the inevitable entropy from reversing the burn in...




Sorry, this is incorrect.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Sorry, this is incorrect.


 
  Just passing on what I was told by AQ. I could have misinterpreted. I am not a scientist, I am an audio lover...


----------



## RonaldDumsfeld

http://uk.startech.com/Cards-Adapters/Sound/USB-Audio/Audio-USB-Adapter~ICUSBAUDIOB
   
  This looks to be a similar device with the added advantages of cheaper price and a microphone input.


----------



## Todd R

Got my Dragonfly last week. 
  Compared to the headphone out on my iMac, the Dragonfly sounds much fuller with better bass and a wider soundstage. I have only tried it with my JH Audio 16's and then with some cheap earbuds when I brought it to a friend's house. Even with the cheap buds, my friend and I both easily heard the improvement over the headphone jack on her laptop.
   
  Great little device.
  One neat thing I've also noticed with the Dragonfly is when I use Pure Music (up sampling off) and I select a track with a different bit rate, the Dragonfly will do a quick fade out / fade in between tracks rather than a click or pop that I get with some other brands of DAC's. 
  Nice!


----------



## Audio Addict

Quote: 





todd r said:


> Got my Dragonfly last week.
> Compared to the headphone out on my iMac, the Dragonfly sounds much fuller with better bass and a wider soundstage. I have only tried it with my JH Audio 16's and then with some cheap earbuds when I brought it to a friend's house. Even with the cheap buds, my friend and I both easily heard the improvement over the headphone jack on her laptop.
> 
> Great little device.
> ...


 
   
  My DragonFly came in last week to try and unfortunately, I found out there is a known driver problem and it does not work with all versions of MS Vista.  They are aware of the problem and even shipped a DragonFly to MS but had no time table for a fix.  Right now the only solution would be to upgrade operating systems to WIN7 or probably more cost effective is to get a new laptop.  Disappointed that I didn't get a chance to audition this.  I am not yet sure what I want to do.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote: 





audio addict said:


> My DragonFly came in last week to try and unfortunately, I found out there is a known driver problem and it does not work with all versions of MS Vista.  They are aware of the problem and even shipped a DragonFly to MS but had no time table for a fix.  Right now the only solution would be to upgrade operating systems to WIN7 or probably more cost effective is to get a new laptop.  Disappointed that I didn't get a chance to audition this.  I am not yet sure what I want to do.


 
   
  I upgraded an old Vista laptop to Win7 a while back.  It's a relatively painless process.  May be the easiest solution.


----------



## Audio Addict

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> I upgraded an old Vista laptop to Win7 a while back.  It's a relatively painless process.  May be the easiest solution.


 
   
  I have the disk to upgrade but I was told I needed to start from scratch rather than upgrade so I haven't done it as a result.  I didn't want to go through all the reinstalls of the software.


----------



## Frapiscide

I don't know if this was posted before, but it looks like it's incompatible with USB 3.0 ports.  I recently built a new PC and when I plugged it in, I got a blue screen of death and DRIVER_IRQUL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL error.  I hope AQ can do something about this, 'cause half of my USB ports are USB 3.0.


----------



## utdeep

I'm using it with the USB 3.0 ports on my MacBook Retina and it works fine.  USB 3.0 is backwards compatible with USB 2.0.  I wonder if there might be another problem with your computer?
   
  I love this DAC/Amp combo.  The sharpness of impact is better than my Centrance DACPort but the sound can feel congested up top.  I'm using JH16Pros.  I favor this sound signature so I'll be selling the DACPort.
   
  How do people set these up with their MacBooks?  I followed the instructions that came with it which recommend using the iTunes audio volume to manage the sound, but I'm having a better time with just the overall computer volume level.  The DACPort used to disable the overall volume level so that you could control it via the dial on the device.
   
  I get to a respectably loud level on the MacBook on 3/16 on the volume meter!  Any more and I would blow out my ears.


----------



## WNBC

That seems to be a bit limiting in terms of fine volume control.  3 steps and you're off the bridge 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  This thread is making it tough to not pull the trigger on one of these DFs.  Might need to get one of these before my next long trip.  
   
   
  Quote: 





utdeep said:


> I get to a respectably loud level on the MacBook on 3/16 on the volume meter!  Any more and I would blow out my ears.


----------



## Mkubota1

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> That seems to be a bit limiting in terms of fine volume control.  3 steps and you're off the bridge


 
   
  Can you do the Shift-Option-VOL+/- like you normally can (w/o the DF)?


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *utdeep* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> How do people set these up with their MacBooks?  I followed the instructions that came with it which recommend using the iTunes audio volume to manage the sound, but I'm having a better time with just the overall computer volume level.  The DACPort used to disable the overall volume level so that you could control it via the dial on the device.


 
   
  Ideally you should use the system volume control, as that controls the Dragonfly's internal analogue volume control.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





utdeep said:


> I love this DAC/Amp combo.  The sharpness of impact is better than my Centrance DACPort but the sound can feel congested up top.  I'm using JH16Pros.  I favor this sound signature so I'll be selling the DACPort.


 
  Give it some more burn in time. It opened up more after 200 hours or so and It really has cleaned up the treble. Sounds great with the HD650's.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





mkubota1 said:


> Can you do the Shift-Option-VOL+/- like you normally can (w/o the DF)?


 
   
  Yeah, it works fine.  
   
  Interestingly enough when I had the volume all the way down to nothing the DF was still audible.  I had to hit the mute button to get silence.
   
  Also it had a delay that would have preferred to do without... if you move the volume up aggressively it might take a second or two for the sound to catch up..


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Yeah, it works fine.
> 
> Interestingly enough when I had the volume all the way down to nothing the DF was still audible.  I had to hit the mute button to get silence.
> 
> Also it had a delay that would have preferred to do without... if you move the volume up aggressively it might take a second or two for the sound to catch up..


 
  I have used it so far with my PC sitting next to the desk with JRiver 17. This week it goes on the road so it will be Macitized...(Is that a new word?) iTunes and Amarra 2.4.1. I'll be listening to AIFF lossless after the first 3 weeks of burn in via FLAC/WAV lossless. It should be fun to see if there is any appreciable differences. I am hauling along the HD650's and the Toxic Cables to stay consistent for comparison's sake. It has really smoothed out and the bass has gotten really full. I am really pleased!


----------



## Twinster

Would you mind providing a DF vs DACport summary of the sound signature? Much appreciated 

[/RIGHT]





utdeep said:


> I'm using it with the USB 3.0 ports on my MacBook Retina and it works fine.  USB 3.0 is backwards compatible with USB 2.0.  I wonder if there might be another problem with your computer?
> 
> I love this DAC/Amp combo.  The sharpness of impact is better than my Centrance DACPort but the sound can feel congested up top.  I'm using JH16Pros.  I favor this sound signature so I'll be selling the DACPort.
> 
> ...


----------



## OldSkool

I've got a netbook laying around, full of lossless music. If the SQ is as good as what's being reported here, I'm thinking a Dragonfly is in my future.
   
  Audioquest, any chance of a "Head-Fi" version?  Hmmm?


----------



## Chefano

Im wondering,
  I dont use itunes as player, instead I use Audirvana Plus. When I move the volume slider, is it been controlled on the digital or analog domain?


----------



## Chefano

Quote: 





chefano said:


> Im wondering,
> I dont use itunes as player, instead I use Audirvana Plus. When I move the volume slider, is it been controlled on the digital or analog domain?


 
  Nevermind, Its on the analog domain.
  Its possible to set this on the preferences =D


----------



## utdeep

Wow!  I had no idea about the shift-option-volume method!  Now instead of 3 out of 16, I can work with 12 out of 64!  Impressive!
   
  To me, the sound signature of the DACPort was flat and lifeless.  It was clean regardless of how loud you set it at but any instrument with any sharp sounds were dull.  I like drums and cymbals, so I wasn't very happy.  I'm a big fan of the Ray Samuels sound which is forward and vibrant.  The Centrance DACPort seemed to suck the soul out of music.
   
  The DragonFly does not compare in terms of instrument separation and soundstage but it's got a great energy to it.  The portability of the DragonFly is also just amazing.  It makes the Centrance DacPort look ridiculously huge.


----------



## Deviltooth

I know the form factor and design intent are very different but soundwise how does the Dragonfly compare to the Arcam  rPAC?  Both are close in price.


----------



## longbowbbs

I have only spent a small amount of time with the arcam, but the DF rivals my DMPlus at more than twice the price.


----------



## MickeyVee

Just picked up  DF a couple of hours ago (and returned an rPAC).  I can see why Jude likes this with the HD700.  Out of the box t's quite nice.  Compared to the rPAC, it has better soundstage, it's more open and airy and has better dynamics. I'm really liking it so far.  Going to run it straight for a couple of weeks and then report back.  So far, so good!


----------



## silversurfer616

Shouldn't have bought the Fiio E17!!!


----------



## longbowbbs

I just spent some time with the DF and the HD800's. It sounds fine but not enough volume with the 800's. It drives the 650's just fine.


----------



## BobJS

I'm enjoying my Fiio E17, but I'm hearing that I'd enjoy the DF much more ---  The only headphone I have over 60 ohms is the HD600 --- and the DF will drive it?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> I'm enjoying my Fiio E17, but I'm hearing that I'd enjoy the DF much more ---  The only headphone I have over 60 ohms is the HD600 --- and the DF will drive it?


 
  The DF drives my HD650's just fine from both my home PC running JRiver and my Mac Book Pro running iTunes and Amarra. Plenty of volume and very full sound in each case. However, Today I was playing around with the HD800's at my dealer and the DF amp in not sufficient to drive the HD800's Nice but not nearly enough volume.


----------



## utdeep

Newer is not always better.  I haven't heard the Fiio E17 and I don't know if the DragonFly would be more enjoyable for you.  After being on this site for more than 10 years, there is a tendency for people to hype the newest stuff.  In some cases, it has lead me to some of my worst purchases ever...  and there was a time where I thought my ears were defective because I couldn't understand the feedback I was reading.
   
  I like the DragonFly for its portability and sound signature.  If you are experiencing any regret with your Fiio purchase, wait for a few months until more people have had a chance to provide feedback especially people who have preferences close to yours.


----------



## silversurfer616

Well,in my case,I only have the E17 for when I am "out and about"(overseas etc.),so I can listen to the music on my laptop..
  At home I'd never use the Fiio for serious listening....not good enough!
  And the same would be the case with the DF,I guess....so NO,NO REGRETS!


----------



## 9VARZ

Word. I've tried it with the HD800, HD700 and the HD600. I think it taps out after the 600/650. Even the 700 is too much for it to bear.
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I just spent some time with the DF and the HD800's. It sounds fine but not enough volume with the 800's. It drives the 650's just fine.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





9varz said:


> Word. I've tried it with the HD800, HD700 and the HD600. I think it taps out after the 600/650. Even the 700 is too much for it to bear.


 
  It is awesome with the 650's I am loving it right now while surfing Head-Fi...


----------



## MickeyVee

I've been quite enjoying it all evening with the HD700. YMMV.
  Quote: 





9varz said:


> Word. I've tried it with the HD800, HD700 and the HD600. I think it taps out after the 600/650. Even the 700 is too much for it to bear.


----------



## compoopers

What I want to know is how quickly will this thing drain my laptops battery...


----------



## kwkarth

mkubota1 said:


> wnbc said:
> 
> 
> > That seems to be a bit limiting in terms of fine volume control.  3 steps and you're off the bridge :eek:
> ...




That approach works perfectly well with the HRT HeadStreamer, which uses the same digitally controlled analog volume control as the DF, but I don't own a DF yet to test that.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





compoopers said:


> What I want to know is how quickly will this thing drain my laptops battery...


 
  I am not noticing any significant loss of battery life. No worries there.


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





utdeep said:


> Newer is not always better.  I haven't heard the Fiio E17 and I don't know if the DragonFly would be more enjoyable for you.  After being on this site for more than 10 years, there is a tendency for people to hype the newest stuff.  In some cases, it has lead me to some of my worst purchases ever...  and there was a time where I thought my ears were defective because I couldn't understand the feedback I was reading.


 
   
  I sympathise as I've been through this too.  I think if the Dragonfly weren't so damn small it wouldn't be so amazing. It's hard to say absolutely how good it is or compares to other things as it is going to be somewhat dependant on what it is plugged into and used with, but I think it is good value for $249. I bought mine out of sheer curiosity and because of its potential when I'm travelling.  I'm likely going to use it along with a pair of M80s or M100s (when I get around to getting a pair) as I reckon headphones in that region are where it is going to do best.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





compoopers said:


> What I want to know is how quickly will this thing drain my laptops battery...


 
   
  I posted this earlier in the thread, but it's pretty minimal on my 11" MBA.  On a low load situation (16 ohm iems, 3-4 bars from bottom) it was adding an additional 8-9% power draw over using the headphone out at a similar volume.  With my Thunderpants toward the top fo the volume range it was about 12-13%.  
   
  So quite a bit more efficient than something like the Dacport, which I basically shied away from due to this issue.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> That approach works perfectly well with the HRT HeadStreamer, which uses the same digitally controlled analog volume control as the DF, but I don't own a DF yet to test that.


 
   
  Yes, it works fine as advertised w/ the 64 step volume control.


----------



## kwkarth

I suspect you're right Amos. I would expect it to really shine with either of those two cans. I'm still curious how the DF compares sonically with the HRT HeadStreamer and the NuForce uDAC 2. So far, the HRT seems to be a nice step up from the sonics of the uDAC2. I am pretty impressed with the sound of the HRT HS so far, but I'm not sure if the DF is any step up sonically. Obviously, it's a more compact package.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> I suspect you're right Amos. I would expect it to really shine with either of those two cans. I'm still curious how the DF compares sonically with the HRT HeadStreamer and the NuForce uDAC 2. So far, the HRT seems to be a nice step up from the sonics of the uDAC2. I am pretty impressed with the sound of the HRT HS so far, but I'm not sure if the DF is any step up sonically. Obviously, it's a more compact package.


 
   
  Someone here did a comparison on here between the HRT, Audioengine D1, and DF.  He felt the Audioengine was a significant step up from the HRT but the DF was just a bit better than the D1, and chose the D1 as the best value if you didn't require the portability.


----------



## MickeyVee

I have both the D1 and just got the DF. I pretty much concur with this conclusion.




bobeau said:


> Someone here did a comparison on here between the HRT, Audioengine D1, and DF.  He felt the Audioengine was a significant step up from the HRT but the DF was just a bit better than the D1, and chose the D1 as the best value if you didn't require the portability.


----------



## kwkarth

bobeau said:


> kwkarth said:
> 
> 
> > I suspect you're right Amos. I would expect it to really shine with either of those two cans. I'm still curious how the DF compares sonically with the HRT HeadStreamer and the NuForce uDAC 2. So far, the HRT seems to be a nice step up from the sonics of the uDAC2. I am pretty impressed with the sound of the HRT HS so far, but I'm not sure if the DF is any step up sonically. Obviously, it's a more compact package.
> ...




Interesting. Although I haven't heard the D1, I'm pretty familiar with other Audioengine electronic products (amps and USB wireless xceivers) and I've never been impressed with their lack of neutrality of transparency. Theyre more than ok when used with their speakers, but dont cut the mustard when used more critically in a quality headphone environment. Oh well, maybe they've turned a corner with the D1.


----------



## longbowbbs

kwkarth said:


> I suspect you're right Amos. I would expect it to really shine with either of those two cans. I'm still curious how the DF compares sonically with the HRT HeadStreamer and the NuForce uDAC 2. So far, the HRT seems to be a nice step up from the sonics of the uDAC2. I am pretty impressed with the sound of the HRT HS so far, but I'm not sure if the DF is any step up sonically. Obviously, it's a more compact package.




I have the uDac2 and the DF smokes it. The sibilance of the uDac2 is hard to deal with after spending time with the DF. Yesterday I spent about 3 hours with the DF, Burson HA-160DS, the uDac2 and my HD650's with the Toxic Cables, a new pair of HD700's and a new pair of HD800's and a new Entreq cable. The uDac is too harsh next to the DF. The DF can drive the 650 and 700's but it does not have enough to adequately drive the 800's.

It is always fun to get some play time with a variety of gear. I am putting the uDac2 up for sale and I am really happy with the DF as my primary MBPro traveling DAC.


----------



## kwkarth

It's no surprise that the DF smokes the uDAC2. The HeadStreamer smokes it too. I'm wondering how the DF and the HeadStreamer compare.


----------



## belisk

I'm interested in the DF for my Win7 Ultrabook.
   
  I need more detail regarding the volume control?
   
  As i understand from other USB DAC's, you keep the laptop volume @ 100%, and use the volume control on the DAC unit to regulate the sound, doing it this way keeps the sound from degrading.
   
  So for the DF, when you change the system volume, isn't the audio degraded?
  AudioQuest do mention to keep the system volume @ 100%, and use your mediaplayer software to regulate the volume, would this also degrade the audio?
   
  Also, anyone paired this with the Ultrasone Signature Pros?


----------



## kwkarth

Essentially, when using the DF or the HRT HS the system volume control is taken over by the digitally controlled analog volume control built in to the DAC. So when you adjust the "system" volume control, you're actually adjusting the analog volume control inside the DAC.


----------



## MickeyVee

You should give the D1 a listen if you can. It's pretty close to the DF. Although I don't have a use case for it now, I'm keeping it. May add some AE speakers to my office system. The FiiO stuff is going. The main system with be Mac>rDAC>Lyr and the around the house, the MacBook Air and DF.  Actually using the DF in my main system now with the HD700 and am quite enjoying it. Just giving it time to break in.
  Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Interesting. Although I haven't heard the D1, I'm pretty familiar with other Audioengine electronic products (amps and USB wireless xceivers) and I've never been impressed with their lack of neutrality of transparency. Theyre more than ok when used with their speakers, but dont cut the mustard when used more critically in a quality headphone environment. Oh well, maybe they've turned a corner with the D1.


----------



## aye5882

can anyone help me configure my macbook pro?
   
  i have the dragonfly and audirvana.  every time i try to play a flac file in audirvana, the rate drops from 96kHz to 44kHz but when I'm using VLC, the output stays at 96 (magenta color on the USB).  also, when i go to the audio MIDI set up, every time i use audirvana the default output goes from dragonfly to the "built in output".  i can't seem the change it.
   
  does anyone know whats going on?
   
  thanks so much.


----------



## Chefano

Quote: 





aye5882 said:


> can anyone help me configure my macbook pro?
> 
> i have the dragonfly and audirvana.  every time i try to play a flac file in audirvana, the rate drops from 96kHz to 44kHz but when I'm using VLC, the output stays at 96 (magenta color on the USB).  also, when i go to the audio MIDI set up, every time i use audirvana the default output goes from dragonfly to the "built in output".  i can't seem the change it.
> 
> ...


 
  When you use Audirvana, it requests exclusive access, so unless you select forced upsample it will adjust the dac sample rate according to the source file.


----------



## Nicklikesmusic

Hi All,
   
  I have read the review on this new DAC and im really interested. I value a large airy 3d soundstage and strong dynamics and would be running this from a macbook pro. My question is as follows.._will I notice a large improvement using the dragonfly (with HD598) compared to the standard headphone out of a macbook pro? _
   
  I have been dissapointed before when trialling a nuforce hdp that I thought offered a very subtle difference but ultimately was not worth the extra dollars and I am not able to demo a dragonfly unit before purchase.
   
  So if you own a dragonfly and macbook pro I really value your answer. If you don't forgive me but don't want to hear from you
   
  Cheers


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





nicklikesmusic said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I have read the review on this new DAC and im really interested. I value a large airy 3d soundstage and strong dynamics and would be running this from a macbook pro. My question is as follows.._will I notice a large improvement using the dragonfly (with HD598) compared to the standard headphone out of a macbook pro? _
> 
> ...


 
  I am very pleased with the DF and the MBP. I did find that the DF needed a good 200 hours of burn in to reach its full potential. I had been using the NuForce uDac2 and besides the convenience factor (No USB cable to bring along) it is a better unit by far. I am using the DF with my HD650's and Toxic Cables to great effect. If I do not bring the 650's along then I can use it with my Etymotic hf3's and custom ACS ear plugs. All is good.


----------



## Chefano

I have a macbook pro, and IMO the mac has a wider soundstage, but the dif. is minimal. The DF has more dynamics, the presentation is fuller as well, but it tends to warm side when compared to the flat response of the mb.
   
  Quote: 





nicklikesmusic said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I have read the review on this new DAC and im really interested. I value a large airy 3d soundstage and strong dynamics and would be running this from a macbook pro. My question is as follows.._will I notice a large improvement using the dragonfly (with HD598) compared to the standard headphone out of a macbook pro? _
> 
> ...


----------



## tzjin

I may have missed it, but has anyone compared it to the ODAC yet? I get the feeling that this would be on the warmer side, while the ODAC would be an a slightly more clinical side. I want to see if the ability to use this as an amplifier as well justifies the extra $100.


----------



## highfidelity69

I am using an iBasso D10 for my laptop DAC, how does the DragonFly compare, thanks in advance.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





utdeep said:


> Wow!  I had no idea about the shift-option-volume method!  Now instead of 3 out of 16, I can work with 12 out of 64!  Impressive!
> 
> To me, the sound signature of the DACPort was flat and lifeless.  It was clean regardless of how loud you set it at but any instrument with any sharp sounds were dull.  I like drums and cymbals, so I wasn't very happy.  I'm a big fan of the Ray Samuels sound which is forward and vibrant.  The Centrance DACPort seemed to suck the soul out of music.
> 
> The DragonFly does not compare in terms of instrument separation and soundstage but it's got a great energy to it.  The portability of the DragonFly is also just amazing.  It makes the Centrance DacPort look ridiculously huge.


 
   
  I don't agree that the DACport sounds flat and lifeless, but I agree it doesn't have the aggressive RSA sound signature.  With my LCD-2 and HE-500 I prefer to feed the DACport into my RSA SR-71b balanced amp, but that's because these orthodynamic phones demand a lot more power and current to drive them than a 5v USB provides.  The Audioengine D1 does better with my low impedance high current phones (including D7000) than DACport, but it doesn't have the instrument separation and soundstage of the DACport.  So in some areas we agree, but soul sucking it is not.
   
  Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Interesting. Although I haven't heard the D1, I'm pretty familiar with other Audioengine electronic products (amps and USB wireless xceivers) and I've never been impressed with their lack of neutrality of transparency. Theyre more than ok when used with their speakers, but dont cut the mustard when used more critically in a quality headphone environment. Oh well, maybe they've turned a corner with the D1.


 
   
  The Audioengine D1 is actually pretty good as a DAC, I think you would like it.  The headphone amp is not as good as the DAC, but it's very useable.  Their D2 wireless DAC is a noticeable step up from the D1, and compares favorably vs my CEntrance DACmini and Apogee miniDAC when driving my single ended ZDT amp.


----------



## belisk

After some research, the Dragonfly, Calyx Coffee, E-DAC and ODAC all use this ES9023 Sabre chip.
   
  Was a tossup between the DF and the Calyx Coffee, so i chose the DF, awaiting delivery.


----------



## MickeyVee

I like the D1 but prefer the DF.  The DF a touch more open and airy with a little better low end extension.  For me, they're both keepers.
  Wold have been perfectly happy with the D1 but had to try out the Dragonfly just for its sheer portability. Glad I did.
  Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> The Audioengine D1 is actually pretty good as a DAC, I think you would like it.  The headphone amp is not as good as the DAC, but it's very useable.  Their D2 wireless DAC is a noticeable step up from the D1, and compares favorably vs my CEntrance DACmini and Apogee miniDAC when driving my single ended ZDT amp.


----------



## utdeep

HeadphoneAddict,

It's a pleasure to have you join this thread. I've used your massive review thread for direction so many times over the past few years.

Are you planning to get a DragonFly anytime soon? Would love your feedback. I knew what I was getting into after I bought the DacPort when I read your review (especially compared to the RSA predator). Having the DragonFly in your review thread would really help prospective buyers.

I think the DacPort is a neutral sounding dac/amp while the DragonFly is darker.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





utdeep said:


> I think the DacPort is a neutral sounding dac/amp while the DragonFly is darker.


 
   
  Just curious have you *only* listened to your JH16s with the DF?  I still believe the output impedance on this guy is high (as another member measured 4.6), which would make it way too high for your JH16s.
   
  I found the DF overly warm/muscular, lacking low end detail but more 'oomph' on my EPH-100s and definitely congested on faster music.  I found none of this character driving my Thunderpants.  And then using only the DF as a DAC -> O2 and driving both the same I did not find this effect.


----------



## tzjin

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> I found the DF overly warm/muscular, lacking low end detail but more 'oomph' on my EPH-100s and definitely congested on faster music.  I found none of this character driving my Thunderpants.  And then using only the DF as a DAC -> O2 and driving both the same I did not find this effect.


 
   
*Muscular! *




   
  So it kind of sounds like an output impedance issue, but Gordon definitely knows what he's talking about, and he says no. I guess it's just bad with the EPH-100. Do you have any other cans or IEM's you can try?


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





tzjin said:


> *Muscular! *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Unfortunately I don't have any other low impedance cans/IEMs to test with, but if you look at comments about congestion in this thread they do seem to correlate with low impedance IEMs.  My Thunderpants do sound wonderful with it slightly tipped the other way... a bit lean, but certainly none of that congestion or bloat and leave little on the table compared to the ODAC/O2 combo.
   
  I dunno, I don't necessarily trust that response Gordon wrote.  It was antagonistic and hand waved away a real measurement because... a mid grade fluke measures impedance so poorly that it would get it wrong by an order of magnitude?  I don't buy it.  They don't publish the spec.  Gordon ignored this question outright when asked on CA - quoting the 12 ohm compatibility on the spec sheet -, Steve Silberman ignored it twice in my emails to him (suggesting my computer was somehow improperly setup), and Gordon only responded when someone actually published something to tear down the effort.  It's fishy.


----------



## utdeep

I used it for some Sennheiser HD600s as well.  It sounds great with my JH16s.    The Sennheisers were good too.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





utdeep said:


> I used it for some Sennheiser HD600s as well.  It sounds great with my JH16s.    The Sennheisers were good too.


 
  Awesome with the HD650's!


----------



## kiteki

belisk said:


> After some research, the Dragonfly, Calyx Coffee, E-DAC and ODAC all use this ES9023 Sabre chip.
> 
> Was a tossup between the DF and the Calyx Coffee, so i chose the DF, awaiting delivery.


 
   
  Epiphany Acoustics DAC and the ODAC are the same.  The AckoDAC AKD-23S uses it too, and I imagine some blu-ray players, etc.
   
   
  As for the ~4 ohm output impedance in the DF.
   

   
  source: http://en.goldenears.net/7901


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *kiteki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> As for the ~4 ohm output impedance in the DF.
> 
> source: http://en.goldenears.net/7901


 
   
  Good to know and without a doubt this is a measurement that is all across the board.  Basic rule of thumb though is output impedance should be roughly 1/8 of headphone impedance otherwise it may adversely impact the frequency response.  Granted I got this from reading voldemort's article on this so take it fwiw, but he makes a pretty compelling case.


----------



## Chefano

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Good to know and without a doubt this is a measurement that is all across the board.  Basic rule of thumb though is output impedance should be roughly 1/8 of headphone impedance otherwise it may adversely impact the frequency response.  Granted I got this from reading voldemort's article on this so take it fwiw, but he makes a pretty compelling case.


 
   
  So, do we have another DF output impedance measurement? About 4 Ohms..


----------



## Chefano

This is why I really love the DF....


----------



## Kojaku

Has anyone tried this with a porta-rig? Maybe a SGS3 or Archos 101 g9? I'd love to know if the draw is low enough to host 
   
  Kojaku


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





kojaku said:


> Has anyone tried this with a porta-rig? Maybe a SGS3 or Archos 101 g9? I'd love to know if the draw is low enough to host
> 
> Kojaku


 
   
  If this helps at all it won't work with the iPad without a powered hub.


----------



## Kojaku

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> If this helps at all it won't work with the iPad without a powered hub.


 

 Oh, but I know the iPad is VERY picky because it has a really really low power output. By contrast, each of the hosting ports on my Archos 101 G9 can put out up to 1000mA at 2V. I have literally used my tablet to power a projector.
   
  Kojaku


----------



## sygyzy

Is there anything on the market that comes close to this, but cheaper? I want a USB soundcard (my laptop does not have a PCMCIA or ExpressCard port). I don't want a big USB DAC like an Audio Engine or even a Fiio (sp?).


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





sygyzy said:


> Is there anything on the market that comes close to this, but cheaper? I want a USB soundcard (my laptop does not have a PCMCIA or ExpressCard port). I don't want a big USB DAC like an Audio Engine or even a Fiio (sp?).


 
   
  I believe there have been other USB key-sized DACs but they've been fairly bad.  I think alot of the commotion over this device is it actually it is the first audiophile-grade product in this form factor.  A quick check shows Firestone has something called a Black key for about $100.
   
  In any case I just ordered another Dragonfly... have a couple other IEMs enroute, esp a GR07 MkII which has a 50 ohm impedance so let's see how it goes...


----------



## sygyzy

Thanks for the answer, bobeau


----------



## Chefano

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> I believe there have been other USB key-sized DACs but they've been fairly bad.  I think alot of the commotion over this device is it actually it is the first audiophile-grade product in this form factor.  A quick check shows Firestone has something called a Black key for about $100.
> 
> In any case I just ordered another Dragonfly... have a couple other IEMs enroute, esp a GR07 MkII which has a 50 ohm impedance so let's see how it goes...


 
   
  Hey bobeau,
  Did you order another DF?  Was there any issue in your first one?
  Im asking because Im really curious about the output. The designer stated that its as low as 0.8 Ohms, on the other hand I measured about 4 Ohms. So, before shipping back I need a confirmation.. if my device is broken or it has the 4Ohms out.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> I believe there have been other USB key-sized DACs but they've been fairly bad.  I think alot of the commotion over this device is it actually it is the first audiophile-grade product in this form factor.  A quick check shows Firestone has something called a Black key for about $100.
> 
> In any case I just ordered another Dragonfly... have a couple other IEMs enroute, esp a GR07 MkII which has a 50 ohm impedance so let's see how it goes...


 
  This time give a couple hundred hours to breathe...


----------



## tzjin

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> In any case I just ordered another Dragonfly... have a couple other IEMs enroute, esp a GR07 MkII which has a 50 ohm impedance so let's see how it goes...


 
   
  Well currently it only seems to be affecting 16-ohm IEM's, so I hope the GR07 MKII is fine. Especially because I'm interested in purchasing a Dragonfly for mines.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





chefano said:


> Hey bobeau,
> Did you order another DF?  Was there any issue in your first one?
> Im asking because Im really curious about the output. The designer stated that its as low as 0.8 Ohms, on the other hand I measured about 4 Ohms. So, before shipping back I need a confirmation.. if my device is broken or it has the 4Ohms out.


 
   
  I did... no issues with it aside from not performing well with my EPH-100, but now I feel like branching out and looking for something that is maybe more accurate or exciting.
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> This time give a couple hundred hours to breathe...


 
   
  Oh yeah, I'm gonna hold onto this one and will put it on nightly burn-in. 
   
  Quote: 





tzjin said:


> Well currently it only seems to be affecting 16-ohm IEM's, so I hope the GR07 MKII is fine. Especially because I'm interested in purchasing a Dragonfly for mines.


 
   
  Yeah totally, I think this will be a dynamite combo once both are fully broken in.  I somewhat suspect it may tame the sibilant tendencies of the GR07, but we'll see.


----------



## tzjin

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Yeah totally, I think this will be a dynamite combo once both are fully broken in.  I somewhat suspect it may tame the sibilant tendencies of the GR07, but we'll see.


 
   
  Keep us posted!


----------



## xxhaxx

Tempted to sell my ibasso D7 to get the DF for library use 
   
  Any comparison between the 2?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





utdeep said:


> HeadphoneAddict,
> It's a pleasure to have you join this thread. I've used your massive review thread for direction so many times over the past few years.
> Are you planning to get a DragonFly anytime soon? Would love your feedback. I knew what I was getting into after I bought the DacPort when I read your review (especially compared to the RSA predator). Having the DragonFly in your review thread would really help prospective buyers.
> I think the DacPort is a neutral sounding dac/amp while the DragonFly is darker.


 
   
  I plan to get one to try eventually, but not for a few more weeks.  My daughter just started attending college, and as the bumper stickers say, "My daughter and my money go to Duke University."


----------



## J.Pocalypse

Hopefully, this little guy will be compatible with Win 8 Pro/MS Surface.


----------



## longbowbbs

j.pocalypse said:


> Hopefully, this little guy will be compatible with Win 8 Pro/MS Surface.




Given that it is recognized natively with MS Win 7 Pro I would expect it to Be plug and play.


----------



## mikemercer

sling5s said:


> Thanks for the comparisons.  I do like it on the warm side rather than bright.  I was hoping to replace the Dacport but I guess I'll hold on to it.




I'm about to get a Dragonfly for review in The Daily Swarm.com. Now, most of you know I've been a writer/reviewer a lot longer than I've been working in Hifi as a 9-5 (I took the job working for CEntrance because the DACports transparency and accuracy, IMO, blew me away for its size). 

Now, I no longer write about CEntrance gear of course. But, believe me, I'll be doing a comparison!! And if I think (and we ALL hear differently) the Dragonfly sounds more musical I'm not scared to say it... It will push Michael Goodman to build something better!!

I'm eager to hear the Dragonfly in my system, w/ my LCD-3s and JHAudio JH-13 Pros!!!


----------



## kwkarth

mikemercer said:


> sling5s said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the comparisons.  I do like it on the warm side rather than bright.  I was hoping to replace the Dacport but I guess I'll hold on to it.
> ...




I'm eager to read your comparo!


----------



## eyal1983

Hey you guys,
  I just received my DF this noon...
  hearing it for 2 hours now, it sounds WAY better than my Fiio E17 "Alpen" (soon to go to the "for sale" section )
   
  BTW 
  when i finished my listening session, i unpluged it, and it was very hot.
  is it normal for it to get hot ?
   
  1 min outside, it cooled back to room temperature.. 
   
   
  -Eyal


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





eyal1983 said:


> Hey you guys,
> I just received my DF this noon...
> hearing it for 2 hours now, it sounds WAY better than my Fiio E17 "Alpen" (soon to go to the "for sale" section )
> 
> ...


 

 I have the E17 and am considering getting the DF.  Can you determine if it's the DAC or amp (or both) that is the better performer?


----------



## eyal1983

OK, found the problem.
  it lies in my laptop. it just throws hot air on it.
  for some reason, the Dell Vostro v3550 laptop heats more than the average laptop. (http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Dell-Vostro-3550-Notebook.53227.0.html) 
  so i connected a 90d usb3 angle unit (http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140567116334#ht_1495wt_906)
  and then the DF to it. 
  this way, not only the DF doesn't heat up anymore, but also the energy put on it from the headphone is lesser. 
   
  -Eyal


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





eyal1983 said:


> OK, found the problem.
> it lies in my laptop. it just throws hot air on it.
> 
> -Eyal


 
   
  Just wanted to throw out that the little guy does heat up from use on my MBA after an hour or two.  Perhaps not to the degree you're experiencing, and certainly not too hot to touch or anything.


----------



## eyal1983

BobJS:
  yes,
  the DAC is better, and the amp. is better
   
  BUT
  the volume you can reach is lower than with the E17's.
   
   
  -Eyal


----------



## bobeau

Just got in my second DF (purchased used so no idea how many hours on it) and comparing simply out of my MBA's hp out (which voldemort measured last year to be the best laptop hp out he's seen, at least when running on just battery power)
   
  1) I believe I'm pretty much hearing the same thing I heard with my first unit on my EPH-100s - a fuller but tending toward bloated sound.  Perhaps bloated is the wrong word, more like it lacks dynamic punch a bit, smoothed over.  That said, the midrange is esp. lovely and timber does seem more accurate though overall, drums sound more like drums, etc... it's not bad and I could see many preferring this sound, but at least at this early juncture I'm more into my MBA's out.  It's like its making a colored 'fun' sounding phone a little too fun.
   
  2) Also tried with Etymotic HF2 (also fairly low impedance at 16 ohms) I had lying around and it's also a mixed bag... bass actually comes in with better presence, there is a better sense of space, but details are a bit obscured.  It almost makes these perform more like dynamic drivers, but oddly enough it makes it seem a bit more sibilant in places even though overall the sound signature seems to shift downward.  Not a fan of the Ety sound fwiw but it does make these phones more listenable to me so I actually prefer it.  But I would take the DF -> EPH-100 anyday.
   
  3) Tried with some Edition 8s... now we're talking.  Really good pairing.  Everything sounds more alive/dynamic/fleshed out, just a tiny lack of control in the bass that could possibly go away with a good burn-in. 
   
  No matter, I picked this up for using with other things, esp. a GR07 Mk2 and probably some portable cans like the JVC S500 I'm looking at checking out.


----------



## eyal1983

yeah the DF makes everything feel alive... didn't have the same feeling with the E17...
  DF is more fun and engaging, everything is clearer.


----------



## belisk

After a week with the DF, i paired it with the several headphones in my inventory, Q701, PC360, M50, SigPro's, would have to say the SigPro's is definitely the best fit for the DF.
   
  My first impressions of it were the DF is quite heavy for its size, the casing feels really rugged, I tried to find any defects other people where saying like USB part not being straight, my unit was perfectly proportional, and there was no trace of it being warm.
   
  The analog volume definitely works as advertised, however its best to use JRiver Media Center with WASAPI for perfect control over the DF.
   
  The sound quality is outstanding, as mentioned the SigPros really shined well, but didn't like being @ 100%, basically the same thing happens when I set my M-Stage to high, too much amperage lol.
   
  Highly Recommend.


----------



## WNBC

Which other media players did you find that had less than perfect control over the DF?
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *belisk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> The analog volume definitely works as advertised, however its best to use JRiver Media Center with WASAPI for perfect control over the DF.


----------



## belisk

I think it was just the fact i was using WASAPI, so probably any audio/media player that supports WASAPI will sound great through the DF, although i hear foobar has stuttering issues, when JRiver is running, everything is muted except the player itself, afaik it bypasses windows entirely, thats why it sounds alot smoother/better.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





belisk said:


> I tried to find any defects other people where saying like USB part not being straight, my unit was perfectly proportional, and there was no trace of it being warm.


 
   
  Really?  I've had 2 now and out of the box they have the same slight (perhaps 3-5%) downward slope to the connector.  This doesn't seem to be a defect, rather a designed-in strain relief.  Also both of mine get warm after about 30 minutes to an hour of continuous use, not objectionable.


----------



## WNBC

I've found some stuttering issues on both Foobar and JRiver.  Haven't nailed down what causes it and it is random and rare so I don't think people need to be afraid of this and YMMV.  Most likely related to the computers rather than DF.  
  
  Quote:


belisk said:


> I think it was just the fact i was using WASAPI, so probably any audio/media player that supports WASAPI will sound great through the DF, although i hear foobar has stuttering issues, when JRiver is running, everything is muted except the player itself, afaik it bypasses windows entirely, thats why it sounds alot smoother/better.


 
   
  Mine is straight, no downward slope.  Purchased from Amazon.  I do use a USB extender so it never has had a chance to slope on its own.  I would say mine gets less than luke warm even after hours of use.  Could depend on the volume levels and IEM/headphone one is trying to drive.  For me, Hifiman RE-262.  
   
  Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Really?  I've had 2 now and out of the box they have the same slight (perhaps 3-5%) downward slope to the connector.  This doesn't seem to be a defect, rather a designed-in strain relief.  Also both of mine get warm after about 30 minutes to an hour of continuous use, not objectionable.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *WNBC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Mine is straight, no downward slope.  Purchased from Amazon.  I do use a USB extender so it never has had a chance to slope on its own.  I would say mine gets less than luke warm even after hours of use.  Could depend on the volume levels and IEM/headphone one is trying to drive.  For me, Hifiman RE-262.


 
   
  Maybe it's more obvious for me as I'm running it out of a MBA so it's low to whatever surface it's on - but again, but straight out of the box like this, both of them.
   
   

   
  Also this isn't happening from being under its own weight.  The connector is simply angled on the units I've had.  Sorry to belabor this but it could bring into question the durability of the device, which feels to me like it could take a pretty hefty headphone plug without being under duress.
   

   
   
  So far I'm mostly just using them with EPH-100s, almost at the bottom of the volume range (14-18 steps in the 64 step range).  It's a slight warmth, perhaps 80 degrees or so.


----------



## WNBC

You are right.  Instead of just holding it in the air I put it on a flat surface.  There is a small downward angle.   Oh so slight but there.
   
  Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Maybe it's more obvious for me as I'm running it out of a MBA so it's low to whatever surface it's on - but again, but straight out of the box like this, both of them.


----------



## Chefano

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> You are right.  Instead of just holding it in the air I put it on a flat surface.  There is a small downward angle.   Oh so slight but there.


 
   
  Thats why I use mine with a 90 degree converter. =D


----------



## WNBC

What do you think of the eventual cost of the AQ DT (Dragon Tail)?  I've eyed a couple of those right angle connectors on Amazon.  <$10
   
  Quote: 





chefano said:


> Thats why I use mine with a 90 degree converter. =D


----------



## utdeep

I've never been a big believer in amp/headphone pairings but I'm really happy with the sound of my Ultrasone 8 and the DragonFly... much happier than the DragonFly, JH16Pro pairing.  
  My gut would say that the DragonFly + Grado or Ultrasone would be a decent combo.  Doesn't work as well with IEMs.


----------



## WNBC

Does work really well with the RE-262 but it is a special IEM with 150 ohms impedance and 95 dB sensitivity.  DF also sounds good with the Monoprice MEP-933, 32 ohms & 96 dB.  Don't own any efficient IEMs.  Still have to try it with the HE-500 but I'm thinking it will not have the firepower for those headphones.
   
  Quote: 





utdeep said:


> I've never been a big believer in amp/headphone pairings but I'm really happy with the sound of my Ultrasone 8 and the DragonFly... much happier than the DragonFly, JH16Pro pairing.
> My gut would say that the DragonFly + Grado or Ultrasone would be a decent combo.  Doesn't work as well with IEMs.


----------



## bixby

Quote: 





sygyzy said:


> Is there anything on the market that comes close to this, but cheaper? I want a USB soundcard (my laptop does not have a PCMCIA or ExpressCard port). I don't want a big USB DAC like an Audio Engine or even a Fiio (sp?).


 
  yup, the hrt headstreamer, see my blog for review


----------



## belisk

Quote: 





utdeep said:


> I've never been a big believer in amp/headphone pairings but I'm really happy with the sound of my Ultrasone 8 and the DragonFly... much happier than the DragonFly, JH16Pro pairing.
> My gut would say that the DragonFly + Grado or Ultrasone would be a decent combo.  Doesn't work as well with IEMs.


 
   


 Totally agree with you, probably due to the easy to drive nature of the Ultrasones?
   
  I've been putting the DF through some games i play(Team Fortress 2) to see how it performs with 1000's of soundfiles passing through it, performed very well, it didn't warm up, i fully expected it to as my audioengine and m-stage do get quite warm.
   
  Also i've found a use for USB cap that comes on the DF, since my laptop is quite thick height wise, I put the cap under the DF to support it.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





belisk said:


> Totally agree with you, probably due to the easy to drive nature of the Ultrasones?


 
   
  I believe it's basically an output impedance issue rather than a matching to a certain sound signature or whatnot.  I'd love to be proven wrong on this though.


----------



## revenge

I own both a Signature Pro and an Edition 8. I would therefore be very interested in a small source like this one for portable use with my Mac. I am currently using a Hifiman 801 as a "portable" USB dac and, although pretty decent sounding (and, I have a feeling, better than your insect) is a bit on the big and heavy side, not to mention the power supply. What I would like to know is how the Dragonfly compares to other sources, similar or better, because as mentioned above Ed.8 is a very efficient and competent headphone even plugged directly into an iPhone. 
   
  So to get a clear image as to what to expect from this new device I would like to know 
   
  1) in what way it improves the sound of a Macbook Pro output; some users have suggested resolution and clarity, others a warm signature, a third thought the bass was a bit too much and uncontrolled at some point. These statements are slightly contradicting and while I know that each of us hears things differently, a consensus can generally be reached regarding the overall sound signature of a product. So is the Dragonfly a lean, clear, analytic or whatever you might want to call it, source or is it the other way around, warm with maybe a slightly bloated bass? How about soundstage? Would you say it's an honest, accurate SS sound or rather a euphonic, valve-like affair? Does it really improve, with a SP / Ed.8,  a Mac's output (and in what ways) or is it just a different flavour?
   
  2) I would like to know how it compares to other similar device. I have had quite a few of these dinky things (Total Bithead, Corda 2 Move, iBasso D10, iQube to name just a few) and always ended up badly disappointed. It is my belief, based on my own experience, that a 5V, USB powered device, can not provide a decent sound. A bit more power to drive an inefficient headphone, yes. But a quality, balanced, natural sound, no. Which is why I ended up with the Hifiman, a product in a completely different league compared to the USB powered generation although not without flaws.
   
  3) I would also like to know how it compares to "proper" hifi, not to humiliate the little bug but, again, to get an idea as to what to expect exactly. I would appreciate any comments.
   
  Last but not least, to contribute constructively to this thread, I would expect a short tail like this one to be the ideal partner for a Dragonfly. It would keep the stick away from the heat of a computer while relieving the tension on the plugs/sockets.


----------



## belisk

Big question
   
  I can tell you one thing, the DF opened up the soundstage by quite a bit on the Signature Pro's, using the Q701 as a benchmark, on a scale of 1-10, the Q701 being a 10, the SP being a 8, which is excellent for gaming, i now use them as my primary gaming setup, so thats saying alot about the DF in regards to soundstage.
  imo the SP+DF is lean/tight, clear, analytic.
   
  As for the comparison to other devices using the SP, i can give you 3 comparisons, the Audioengine D1 is definitely dinky pair, the M-Stage(set to 10) is a "OK", the laptop is complete garbage, the DF blows them out of the water.
   
  cant comment on 3rd question.


----------



## revenge

Thanks for your comment. SP is definitely lacking in soundstage so that is a big plus. 
   
  How about this comment with various headphones: smoothed over, obscured detail, sound signature shifting downward, lovely midrange (generally translating in a warm sound signature), bloated sound.   
   
   


> 1) I believe I'm pretty much hearing the same thing I heard with my first unit on my EPH-100s - a fuller but tending toward bloated sound.  Perhaps bloated is the wrong word, more like it lacks dynamic punch a bit, smoothed over.  That said, the midrange is esp. lovely and timber does seem more accurate though overall, drums sound more like drums, etc... it's not bad and I could see many preferring this sound, but at least at this early juncture I'm more into my MBA's out.  It's like its making a colored 'fun' sounding phone a little too fun.
> 
> 2) Also tried with Etymotic HF2 (also fairly low impedance at 16 ohms) I had lying around and it's also a mixed bag... bass actually comes in with better presence, there is a better sense of space, but details are a bit obscured.  It almost makes these perform more like dynamic drivers, but oddly enough it makes it seem a bit more sibilant in places even though overall the sound signature seems to shift downward.  Not a fan of the Ety sound fwiw but it does make these phones more listenable to me so I actually prefer it.  But I would take the DF -> EPH-100 anyday.
> 
> 3) Tried with some Edition 8s... now we're talking.  Really good pairing.  Everything sounds more alive/dynamic/fleshed out, just a tiny lack of control in the bass that could possibly go away with a good burn-in.


 
   
  Another interesting question for a potential buyer would be, of course, compatibility, synergy. The Dragonfly doesn't seem to perform very well neither with low impedance, sensitive IEM's, nor with anything above HD650 (maybe HD700 reported by someone). I assume then that the "comfort zone" would then be indeed Grado, Ultrasone and probably other reasonably efficient headphones (the HD5XX range from Sennheiser comes to mind as well). A lot of love for the Ultrasone / Dragonfly combo reported so far, how about experiences with other headphones, including Grado?


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





eyal1983 said:


> Hey you guys,
> I just received my DF this noon...
> hearing it for 2 hours now, it sounds WAY better than my Fiio E17 "Alpen" (soon to go to the "for sale" section )
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





bobjs said:


> I have the E17 and am considering getting the DF.  Can you determine if it's the DAC or amp (or both) that is the better performer?


 
   
  Quote: 





eyal1983 said:


> BobJS:
> yes,
> the DAC is better, and the amp. is better
> 
> ...


 
   
  OK.... even though I really love my E17, based on this and other reviews I've read, I ordered the DF.  Should be here Friday!


----------



## orb2k

Quote: 





bixby said:


> yup, the hrt headstreamer, see my blog for review


 
   
  Interesting, might need to do some more research


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





revenge said:


> 1) in what way it improves the sound of a Macbook Pro output; some users have suggested resolution and clarity, others a warm signature, a third thought the bass was a bit too much and uncontrolled at some point. These statements are slightly contradicting and while I know that each of us hears things differently, a consensus can generally be reached regarding the overall sound signature of a product.


 
   
  Not really.  Again, if the output impedance does indeed measure at 4.6 ohms as Chefano measured, then it's going to be suboptimal for low impedance cans (why this is important: http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/discuss/feedback/newsletter/2011/12/2/0-ohm-headphone-amplifier-sonic-advantages-low-impedance-headphone-amp).  Although this is somewhat variable as different headphones respond differently to different loads, voldemort made a case to shoot for a damping factor of 8:1 or better, which would imply using cans at least 37 ohms.  My Macbook Air measures sub 1 ohm.  Also of concern as you allude to is current and voltage swing which are going to limit the driving power.  My Thunderpants for instance sound a bit lean with this compared to my O2 amp, but much better than my MBA's headphone out.
   
  My attitude about the DF vs. the headphone output of my MBA for the Ed8s is it does warm these up a bit.  Bass definitely more presence, the whole sound has more fleshed out/timber is improved, but transients are slightly smeared.   Overall I think it's nice improvement over the MBA out, which for my personal preferences can't quite say the same for my EPH-100s.  But adding the O2 to the mix these do sound that next level better - tighter, more dynamic.  It's unfortunate I don't have more cans to try out.
   



revenge said:


> 2) I would like to know how it compares to other similar device. I have had quite a few of these dinky things (Total Bithead, Corda 2 Move, iBasso D10, iQube to name just a few) and always ended up badly disappointed. It is my belief, based on my own experience, that a 5V, USB powered device, can not provide a decent sound. A bit more power to drive an inefficient headphone, yes. But a quality, balanced, natural sound, no. Which is why I ended up with the Hifiman, a product in a completely different league compared to the USB powered generation although not without flaws.
> 
> Last but not least, to contribute constructively to this thread, I would expect a short tail like this one to be the ideal partner for a Dragonfly. It would keep the stick away from the heat of a computer while relieving the tension on the plugs/sockets.


 

   
  The Dragon Tail people have been referring to is Audioquest's upcoming version of this.  If you're not a big believer in cables (I'm not in particular) then that should be sufficient.
   
  Personally, I don't think you'd be happy with the device if your target is the HM801, esp. if you're using it just to drive the Ultrasones through the headphone out.  The DAC implementation is great though, and if you used something like a DF -> 02/C421 it would probably punch at a similar level to the HM801 at about half the cost. 
   
  EDIT:  Steve Silberman from Audioquest has mentioned there will be other products in this vein released over the next year, esp. a device like this with a built in battery - the idea being that it may have a bit more driving power not being solely reliant on the limitations of the usb bus.  That might be the one to watch for.


----------



## Chefano

MEA CULPA! (MY FAULT)
   
Hello guys.
I have to apologize for my measurment regarding the DF impedance output, yes I was wrong 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
I've been reading a lot over the past days and today I discovered that my methodology was not 100% correct. Gonna explain. I was measuring the open circuit at its maximum Rms voltage and then loading it using a selected resistence. Here lies the problem, this works for amplifiers that are designed to be loaded using a specific impedance (lets say 8 Ohms). Heaphone amplifiers are designed to work in a impedance range.. see the problem?
   
So, lets for example use the JH16 pro specs to recalculate the DF output impedance:
Imput sensitivity: 118dB/1mW
Impedance: 18 Ohms
   
Using 110dB (really loud) as my reference @ 1KHz 0dBfs, I would need about 0.4Vrms to drive the JH16pro at 110dB levels. This math is accomplished by: Vrms = Antilog ( ( "how loud" – "imput sensitivity") / 20 )
   
So, I got the DF and adjusted its volume to about 0.404 Vrms in open circuit, and loaded it using a 17.9R, and as result got 0.400 Vrms.
Here is the math:
   
Zsource = Rload x ((Vo/Vl)-1)
Using the values I got  0.18 Ohms
   
*Yes, thats correct 0.18 Ohms !*
   
I repeated the same process for all the amps I had laying around, and Ive got almost the same measurement as stated in the specs.
   
So, if it not sounds good using high-sens. iems/ low impedance, it must be for another reason than output impedance.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





chefano said:


> So, if it not sounds good using high-sens. iems/ low impedance, it must be for another reason than output impedance.


 
   
  Dude, that's awesome, thanks so much for that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good to hear this is not the reason.  I guess it could just be a signature mismatch that hopefully is cleared up with extended burn-in... the leanness I'm experiencing with my TP1s is perhaps due to those being somewhat under-driven.
   
  I'm going to just exclusively listen to my EPH-100s (and all other cans/iems that are incoming) with the DF over the next month or so then re-evaluate then and keep my mouth shut in the meantime.  Mea culpa x 2.


----------



## tzjin

Glad to hear!

 If it may be a sound signature mismatch, perhaps we should try a really bright IEM like the DBA-02 with the Dragonfly.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





tzjin said:


> Glad to hear!
> 
> If it may be a sound signature mismatch, perhaps we should try a really bright IEM like the DBA-02 with the Dragonfly.


 
   
  I dunno if *really bright* IEMs are necessary, but just more neutral.  The EPH-100 I've been using almost exclusively with this is pretty bass heavy by default so it goes to reason a warm push of any sort can put it in unsavory territory - but again, that could come down to preferences.  I'm eager to see how this guy performs with several things I have incoming - namely the JVC FXD-80, JVC S500, and VSonic GR07 MkII.  The GR07 esp. could be a magical combo as that's a strongly neutral IEM.


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





chefano said:


> MEA CULPA! (MY FAULT)
> 
> Hello guys.
> I have to apologize for my measurment regarding the DF impedance output, yes I was wrong
> ...


 
   
  Not to belabor the point (when someone says this, you know they're about to belabor the point), but Gordon Rankin (the designer) states the output impedance is not more than .8 ohms over in a similar thread at Computer Audiophile.


----------



## revenge

Quote: 





> Personally, I don't think you'd be happy with the device if your target is the HM801, esp. if you're using it just to drive the Ultrasones through the headphone out.  The DAC implementation is great though, and if you used something like a DF -> 02/C421 it would probably punch at a similar level to the HM801 at about half the cost.
> 
> EDIT:  Steve Silberman from Audioquest has mentioned there will be other products in this vein released over the next year, esp. a device like this with a built in battery - the idea being that it may have a bit more driving power not being solely reliant on the limitations of the usb bus.  That might be the one to watch for.


 
   
   I already have the Hifiman, I was hoping for a similar USB sound in a smaller package but it doesn't sound like the DF is there yet. Maybe I will wait for the powered version to give it a try. Many thanks for your comments.


----------



## bobeau

I passed this along to the thread at CA... Gordon's response:
   
   
 _   Brandall,

 I appreciate the response but this is still not the correct impedance or method for calculating the output impedance. As I stated above the output impedance is 0.8 ohms max (Prism dScope III) . John Atkinson tested this as well and came up with 0.65 ohms (AP27xx).

 While there are methods to test the impedance using a DVM at one frequency, the above method is not correct, nor is your original one for tube amps. So the value you calculated at 0.18 is NOT correct.

 Also do note that headphones do not load at the same frequencies anyways. So really folks, best bet is try it and see because this is all about taste and with headphones it's more so than with full systems.

 Thanks
 Gordon

   


_


----------



## Wavelength

*Chefano,*
   
  Thanks for looking at this again! But your numbers and methods are still not correct. While you can with an oscillator and a DVM come up with a specific impedance at a given frequency, this is not the way to do it. Also that is not the way to do it with a Tube Amplifier either. 
   
  But really why??? Everyone knows that headphones and speakers vary with frequency. Impedance is just one variable and really with feedback it can be really low and actually not as controlled or good as one without feedback. There are too many variables to pick out one for something that is so personal like headphones are.
   
  Try it... yea and not like others for 10 minutes and send it back. Really try it and let it break in easily don't force it.
   
  Ok as I stated before the output Z of the DragonFly is 0.8 ohms max. John Atkinson tested it with the Audio Precision and got 0.65 ohms. I use the Prism dScope III, these will test using FFT and therefore get a broadband spectrum of the overall impedance.
   
  Again though that is only one variable.... I think we all know we listen with a lot more than that.
   
  Thanks
  Gordon


----------



## longbowbbs

wavelength said:


> *Chefano,*
> 
> *Thanks for looking at this again! But your numbers and methods are still not correct. While you can with an oscillator and a DVM come up with a specific impedance at a given frequency, this is not the way to do it. Also that is not the way to do it with a Tube Amplifier either.*
> 
> ...




Gordon, I am really enjoying the DF after a couple of hundred hours of beak in. Considering all the variables of components and how they are assembled, it makes sense to me that even if two devices are measuring the same that they would still have different sound characteristics. Ultimately, since I enjoy the DF and it performs well with my current phones ( Snnheiser HD 650's) I could care less about about it's measurements, just it's performance. They are not necessarily the same in my experience.

I'll let the engineers return to their scopes and I'll return to my lossless AIFF files...


----------



## judmarc

Quote: 





wavelength said:


> Try it... yea and not like others for 10 minutes and send it back. Really try it and let it break in easily don't force it.


 
   
  Funny, I have no doubt at all re break in, but have to say I loved the Dragonfly from the first moment I heard it.
   
  Using it with my desktop at home as my office system DAC when I am not taking it traveling with my MacBook Pro (with ER-4P IEMs).  In both systems I find it very neutral (no, not analytical).  I can definitely hear the music better than with the MBP's very good phone output or with the excellent ESI Juli@ soundcard in my desktop.
   
  Re Windows players, the Dragonfly seems to work perfectly with XXHighEnd, my preferred player on Windows.


----------



## Chefano

Quote: 





wavelength said:


> *Chefano,*
> 
> Thanks for looking at this again! But your numbers and methods are still not correct. While you can with an oscillator and a DVM come up with a specific impedance at a given frequency, this is not the way to do it. Also that is not the way to do it with a Tube Amplifier either.
> 
> ...


 
  Hey Gordon,
  Thanks for chime here. I really love mine DF, and I as said before IMHO you cant go wrong with it.
   
  Thanks again


----------



## MickeyVee

x2.. Love it with my HD700 and HE400 out of myMacBook Air.  I could easily love with this as my end game (would probably save my hearing instead of running the Lyr  - well, except for the dynamics and punch of the Lyr - never mind - I love it for portable use around the house and will use it when I travel.
  Quote: 





judmarc said:


> Funny, I have no doubt at all re break in, but have to say I loved the Dragonfly from the first moment I heard it.
> 
> Using it with my desktop at home as my office system DAC when I am not taking it traveling with my MacBook Pro (with ER-4P IEMs).  In both systems I find it very neutral (no, not analytical).  I can definitely hear the music better than with the MBP's very good phone output or with the excellent ESI Juli@ soundcard in my desktop.
> 
> Re Windows players, the Dragonfly seems to work perfectly with XXHighEnd, my preferred player on Windows.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> x2.. Love it with my HD700 and HE400 out of myMacBook Air.  I could easily love with this as my end game (would probably save my hearing instead of running the Lyr  - well, except for the dynamics and punch of the Lyr - never mind - I love it for portable use around the house and will use it when I travel.


 

 Finally gave in and ordered a DF this morning, should have it Friday.
   
  You, my friend....are bad for my wallet.


----------



## MickeyVee

Will be interesting to see how it pairs with the HE500 & HD650.. let us know. Definitely let it burn in for a while.
  Sorry 'bout your wallet (again).. and mine!
  Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Finally gave in and ordered a DF this morning, should have it Friday.
> 
> You, my friend....are bad for my wallet.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Will be interesting to see how it pairs with the HE500 & HD650.. let us know. Definitely let it burn in for a while.
> Sorry 'bout your wallet (again).. and mine!


 

 Will do. I'm hearing 200 hrs burn-in! That right?
   
  I hope the DF and Senn IE7's pair nicely for traveling.


----------



## longbowbbs

oldskool said:


> Will do. I'm hearing 200 hrs burn-in! That right?
> 
> I hope the DF and Senn IE7's pair nicely for traveling.




It pairs beautifully with the HD650's and, yes, around 200 hours was the sweet spot for my DF.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> It pairs beautifully with the HD650's and, yes, around 200 hours was the sweet spot for my DF.


 
   
  What would you characterize as the changes due to burn-in for this thing?


----------



## longbowbbs

bobeau said:


> What would you characterize as the changes due to burn-in for this thing?




For me, I found it smooths out the highs and softens the sibilants. The Bass also firmed up. I would describe it now as a fuller sound than out of he box. I am enjoying it with both a PC and JRiver with .WAV's/FLAC's and the Mac with AIFF. I am using the Hd650's, the B&W P5's and the Etymotic hf3's. All work very well with the DF.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> For me, I found it smooths out the highs and softens the sibilants. The Bass also firmed up. I would describe it now as a fuller sound than out of he box. I am enjoying it with both a PC and JRiver with .WAV's/FLAC's and the Mac with AIFF. I am using the Hd650's, the B&W P5's and the Etymotic hf3's. All work very well with the DF.


 
   
  Cool, thanks.  When not in use I'm going to let it run with my Thunderpants at near max volume to load it up.  Looks like my GR07 MkIIs are showing up tomorrow


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Cool, thanks.  When not in use I'm going to let it run with my Thunderpants at near max volume to load it up.  Looks like my GR07 MkIIs are showing up tomorrow


 
  I just unpacked my new HP-P1 for the road...


----------



## MoonYeol

Hey, I'm probably saving up to an amp/dac for my laptop. As I currently don't own anything to improve on my laptop (which has a lot of noise going on and the sq is... poor). I'm not very good at the sound thing. Just started out but I've bought a few iems; Gr07, Se535, Regiant A03, Re0 (however haven't listened to the Re0 or Se535 as they are my motivation for losing weight and running).

So, my question is. How does DF compare to E17 out of a price/performance perspective. Is the 100$ difference worth it? Will I miss anything compared to the features of the E17 or are they just "gimmicks"? Do you feel like you miss any features on the DF or will the sq alone be enough for me? I'm not much of an eq-guy, I want to listen to my iems and not the sound that I created for them (however this may change).

Thanks in advance!


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





moonyeol said:


> Hey, I'm probably saving up to an amp/dac for my laptop. As I currently don't own anything to improve on my laptop (which has a lot of noise going on and the sq is... poor). I'm not very good at the sound thing. Just started out but I've bought a few iems; Gr07, Se535, Regiant A03, Re0 (however haven't listened to the Re0 or Se535 as they are my motivation for losing weight and running).
> So, my question is. How does DF compare to E17 out of a price/performance perspective. Is the 100$ difference worth it? Will I miss anything compared to the features of the E17 or are they just "gimmicks"? Do you feel like you miss any features on the DF or will the sq alone be enough for me? I'm not much of an eq-guy, I want to listen to my iems and not the sound that I created for them (however this may change).
> Thanks in advance!


 

 I have the E17, which I find fantastic.  I especially appreciate the bass/treble adjustments on it for quick, simple sq adjustment.  I will be able to directly compare to the DF in a day or two as it is being delivered this afternoon!  In the IEM dept, I use mostly the GR07, but the SE530 (which I find superior to the SE535 due to its shape),  and Westone 4 as well.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> I have the E17, which I find fantastic... I use mostly the GR07


 
   
  I also have the E17 and a GR07 MkII should be delivered today.  But I want to let everything burn-in for awhile before commenting on that combo (I guess the GR07 really needs it due to a sibilance issue).


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> I also have the E17 and a GR07 MkII should be delivered today.  But I want to let everything burn-in for awhile before commenting on that combo (I guess the GR07 really needs it due to a sibilance issue).


 

 I never noticed a change after the first few days.  I can hear what others are calling sibilance, but it doesn't bother me unless it's a very poor recording.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> I never noticed a change after the first few days.  I can hear what others are calling sibilance, but it doesn't bother me unless it's a very poor recording.


 
   
  I figured that much... someone did say they compared a new one vs. one that had been heavily used and barely heard a difference.  I'm pretty dubious about burn-in as a whole past the first 10-20 hours and think it's mostly a mental adjustment (unless we're talking about sizable caps or diaphragms) but I do want to give the DF some more hours as well just to be fair.


----------



## MickeyVee

Did a quick comparison last night with the Dragonfly, D1 and E17 all out of USB using the HE400.
  My findings: DF > D1 > E17. YMMV. Notice > not >>  Difference are subltle with the DF providing more soundstage andy dynamics. I'd take the Dragonfly over the E17 (for USB out of a PC/laptop) any day. I'll be selling my E17 soon and will keep the DF and D1.
  So, it really comes down to the feature set you want and your particular use(es).  I just want a USB dac/amp and have no need of the other E17 features.
  Quote: 





moonyeol said:


> Hey, I'm probably saving up to an amp/dac for my laptop. As I currently don't own anything to improve on my laptop (which has a lot of noise going on and the sq is... poor). I'm not very good at the sound thing. Just started out but I've bought a few iems; Gr07, Se535, Regiant A03, Re0 (however haven't listened to the Re0 or Se535 as they are my motivation for losing weight and running).
> So, my question is. How does DF compare to E17 out of a price/performance perspective. Is the 100$ difference worth it? Will I miss anything compared to the features of the E17 or are they just "gimmicks"? Do you feel like you miss any features on the DF or will the sq alone be enough for me? I'm not much of an eq-guy, I want to listen to my iems and not the sound that I created for them (however this may change).
> Thanks in advance!


----------



## bixby

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Did a quick comparison last night with the Dragonfly, D1 and E17 all out of USB using the HE400.
> My findings: DF > D1 > E17. YMMV. Notice > not >>  Difference are subltle with the DF providing more soundstage andy dynamics. I'd take the Dragonfly over the E17 (for USB out of a PC/laptop) any day. I'll be selling my E17 soon and will keep the DF and D1.
> So, it really comes down to the feature set you want and your particular use(es).  I just want a USB dac/amp and have no need of the other E17 features.


 
  as expected, thanks for the impressions.


----------



## BobJS

OK, DF just arrived, listened to a few CDs out of the box through iTunes and I agree it's a class above the E17.  Did I miss something though?  I'm running a PC with XP here at home, and at work.  The DF works fine with iTunes, but I can't get it to work with Windows Media Player.  At work, I don't have iTunes and would prefer to not install anything other than WMP.  Am I missing a driver, or am I going to have to load a 3rd party player at work?


----------



## OldSkool

Hmmm, this is strange. Very strange.
   
  DF arrived today and I just set it up in my Dell Mini-10 that is using Windows7 and itunes. Followed install and set up exactly as in the quick start guide. Listening now thru Senn IE7s and something sounds off. Vocals are very VERY subdued and have echos. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Is this part of the burn-in process? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
   
  Edit: Problem solved, see 2nd post below this one


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





revenge said:


> Another interesting question for a potential buyer would be, of course, compatibility, synergy. The Dragonfly doesn't seem to perform very well neither with low impedance, sensitive IEM's, nor with anything above HD650 (maybe HD700 reported by someone). I assume then that the "comfort zone" would then be indeed Grado, Ultrasone and probably other reasonably efficient headphones (the HD5XX range from Sennheiser comes to mind as well). A lot of love for the Ultrasone / Dragonfly combo reported so far, how about experiences with other headphones, including Grado?


 
   
  So far, having not tested high-impedance headphones, this sounds about right. I'm thinking of getting some HD-600s again, as it is very clear whether or not an amp works well with them by the soundstage, which sounds compressed if it isn't driving them well.
   
  Quote: 





wavelength said:


> *Chefano,*
> 
> Thanks for looking at this again! But your numbers and methods are still not correct. While you can with an oscillator and a DVM come up with a specific impedance at a given frequency, this is not the way to do it. Also that is not the way to do it with a Tube Amplifier either.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Gordon, thanks for setting us straight.  Since I don't have any fancy measurement gear, I just plug in my Sony XBA3s, which have a very wacky impedance curve, peaking at 90 Ohms somewhere up around 10 kHz. I know if the treble is unusually bright, then the amp isn't linear.
   
  Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Informal experimentation I did some time back suggested to me that it was heat affecting the components over the first 350 hours that could cause changes, with some devices exhibiting weird behaviour such as the treble disappearing for 50 hours. I find new amps often have some harshness initially which goes away after some hours of use.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Hmmm, this is strange. Very strange.
> 
> DF arrived today and I just set it up in my Dell Mini-10 that is using Windows7 and itunes. Followed install and set up exactly as in the quick start guide. Listening now thru Senn IE7s and something sounds off. Vocals are very VERY subdued and have echos.
> 
> ...


 

 Aha! I didn't have the IEM jack fully inserted into the DF.
   
  Carry on.


----------



## longbowbbs

oldskool said:


> Aha! I didn't have the IEM jack fully inserted into the DF.
> 
> Carry on.




Sometimes it is the simple things...


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Sometimes it is the simple things...


 

 Ain't that the truth. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  OK, after having the IE7's 3.5mm jack FULLY inserted for the better part of an hour while listening to some lossless files, I can safely say.....WOW. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Will give more impressions after 200 hours burn-in.


----------



## Chefano

Today Ive found  my indestructible Porta Pro in my beadroom mess.
  So, why not to try it in DF.
  GEEZZ sounded so good!! Ive never heard them like today.. so dynamic so alive.. 
  Im so pleased! =D


----------



## xxhaxx

I <3 amazon prime  arriving on tuesday


----------



## OldSkool

DF playing lossless files non-stop for about 40 hours. Barely warm, not even lukewarm. Heat from DF simply not an issue on my fanless Dell.
   
  SQ is already amazing. Description? MickeyVee already nailed it...sounds dynamic, terrific soundstage. Still searching for my 1/8 to 1/4 adapter, but so far my Senn IE7s sound great.
   
  Can't wait to travel with this little rig.


----------



## belisk

So does using a amp with the DF double amp, there never was a clear answer.


----------



## eyal1983

tried to connect cMoy (AMP)  to DF,
  volume for DF was at max.
   
  there was a degradation in SQ all across.
   
  an hour later, i sold my cMoy.


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> OK, DF just arrived, listened to a few CDs out of the box through iTunes and I agree it's a class above the E17.  Did I miss something though?  I'm running a PC with XP here at home, and at work.  The DF works fine with iTunes, but I can't get it to work with Windows Media Player.  At work, I don't have iTunes and would prefer to not install anything other than WMP.  Am I missing a driver, or am I going to have to load a 3rd party player at work?


 
   
  Bump.  Anyone get the DF to work with WMP?


----------



## eyal1983

YES, you can use Windows Media Player with DF.
   
  after you insert the DF to your computer, and it's already installed (you said yourself you can use it with other software).
  start WMP
  go to TOOLS (if you can't find it, then right click on the upper border (next to the arrows), then check the "show menu bar"
  now click: OPTIONS
  DEVICES
  double click on SPEAKERS
  and on the "sound playback" choose the DragonFly.
   
  that's all.


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





eyal1983 said:


> YES, you can use Windows Media Player with DF.
> 
> after you insert the DF to your computer, and it's already installed (you said yourself you can use it with other software).
> start WMP
> ...


 

 Hmmm.... I didn't have to do this to play WMP through the Fiio E17, but I'll try this when I get home today, thanks.


----------



## eyal1983

No, you didn't. that is because the O/S selected the E17 as Default.
   
  But after the system "knows" a specific device, and then you move it => then it reverts back to the previous device (if avail.).
  so Now you have to choose the DF... one-time only procedure, as you now understand.
   
  -Eyal


----------



## HeroicPenguin

This definitely looks promising, but I have a few questions if anyone can answer them.
   
  1. If I want to use a USB adapter (like the right angle adapters to not have it stick out), then the sound won't get degraded or anything right? I'll still be able to control it the same?
  2. How is it with IEMs? From people in the thread, it seems like they're better with portable headphones (like the V-Modas). I'm asking because I'd be using it with IEMs; my MacBook Pro's hissing is bothering me and that's mainly what I want to remove. Better soundstage and dynamics is a plus of course.
  3. $250 is pretty steep for me. This wouldn't be overkill for the UE TF10 and HD25 would it? Potentially upgrading to the UM3X in the future and might run the HD600 out of it ocassionally too, but not often.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





heroicpenguin said:


> This definitely looks promising, but I have a few questions if anyone can answer them.
> 
> 2. How is it with IEMs? From people in the thread, it seems like they're better with portable headphones (like the V-Modas). I'm asking because I'd be using it with IEMs; my MacBook Pro's hissing is bothering me and that's mainly what I want to remove. Better soundstage and dynamics is a plus of course.
> 3. $250 is pretty steep for me. This wouldn't be overkill for the UE TF10 and HD25 would it? Potentially upgrading to the UM3X in the future and might run the HD600 out of it ocassionally too, but not often.
> ...


 
   
  With my 16 ohm EPH-100s I detect no hiss whatsover - same with my other iems/cans.  I'm about 40 hours in and still feel it's a bit too warm for those, but have since gotten a GR07 MkII and JVC S500 and like the DF quite a bit with those, definitely an improvement over my wonderful MBA's headphone out.  Still prefer my ODAC/O2 combo as being a bit more controlled/dynamic but it's a fairly non-portable outboard unit that requires a power adaptor and is another $50 more.


----------



## eyal1983

usb adapters don't degrade SQ
   
  i have a Vsonic GR06 IEM. at 10% volume is normally like 25% with normal full size headphones. black backrgound, and no hiss.
   
  not an overkill, for it is a great DAC. and the amp. is strong enough to drive most dynamic HPs (not planar...)
   
   
  -Eyal


----------



## HeroicPenguin

Quote: 





eyal1983 said:


> usb adapters don't degrade SQ
> 
> i have a Vsonic GR06 IEM. at 10% volume is normally like 25% with normal full size headphones. black backrgound, and no hiss.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





bobeau said:


> With my 16 ohm EPH-100s I detect no hiss whatsover - same with my other iems/cans.  I'm about 40 hours in and still feel it's a bit too warm for those, but have since gotten a GR07 MkII and JVC S500 and like the DF quite a bit with those, definitely an improvement over my wonderful MBA's headphone out.  Still prefer my ODAC/O2 combo as being a bit more controlled/dynamic but it's a fairly non-portable outboard unit that requires a power adaptor and is another $50 more.


 
   
  Thanks for the help! Didn't think the adapter would kill the SQ, so that's good. I was thinking it was overkill to use a DAC/amp that's the cost of my IEMs, but it would help the sound quality. Glad to hear that it's close to the ODAC/O2 combo, which is highly regarded. I'm guessing it won't be quite as good as my Asgard, but it might be about equal for IEMs. Pretty excited about this lil device.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





heroicpenguin said:


> This definitely looks promising, but I have a few questions if anyone can answer them.
> 
> 1. If I want to use a USB adapter (like the right angle adapters to not have it stick out), then the sound won't get degraded or anything right? I'll still be able to control it the same?
> 2. How is it with IEMs? From people in the thread, it seems like they're better with portable headphones (like the V-Modas). I'm asking because I'd be using it with IEMs; my MacBook Pro's hissing is bothering me and that's mainly what I want to remove. Better soundstage and dynamics is a plus of course.
> ...


 
  I am using it now with my HD25's and my MB Pro and it is great. It also works beautifully with my HD650's at home.


----------



## nc8000

For me it works fine on the road with JH13 or MC3 and in the office with my powered Adam A3X monitor speakers


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





eyal1983 said:


> No, you didn't. that is because the O/S selected the E17 as Default.
> 
> But after the system "knows" a specific device, and then you move it => then it reverts back to the previous device (if avail.).
> so Now you have to choose the DF... one-time only procedure, as you now understand.
> ...


 
   
  Yep, you are correct.  On another note, using the dragonfly with lossless material allowed me to hear for myself an actual difference between a custom silver cable, and the stock cable with the Shure SRH940.  As the ultimate after-market cable skeptic, this was NOT what I expected.  More about that here for anyone interested.
   
  Bob


----------



## longbowbbs

bobjs said:


> Yep, you are correct.  On another note, using the dragonfly with lossless material allowed me to hear for myself an actual difference between a custom silver cable, and the stock cable with the Shure SRH940.  As the ultimate after-market cable skeptic, this was NOT what I expected.  More about that here for anyone interested.
> 
> Bob




Welcome to the custom cable club, Bob! May your wallet forgive you...


----------



## HeroicPenguin

Just curious, is there a right angle adapter that lets the Dragonfly sit flush onto the adapter. I saw that HifiGuy found an adapter that makes this happen, if the cord is short enough, I'd definitely be interested in that. Anyone know where he got that?


----------



## xxhaxx

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006C0QWEK/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00
   
  This was what I bought after I saw Chefano picture 
   
   
   


chefano said:


> Ive already ordered an USB adapter. Gonna take some time to get it =(
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/90d-USB-3-0-male-Female-vertical-right-Angled-Adapter-/140567116334?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D673535308057380895%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26


 
   
   


chefano said:


> This is why I really love the DF....


----------



## HeroicPenguin

Quote: 





xxhaxx said:


> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006C0QWEK/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00
> 
> This was what I bought after I saw Chefano picture


 
   
  Yeah, that's definitely a secondary option. How big is the gap between the Dragonfly and the port? Does the Dragonfly "wiggle" or move in the port?


----------



## xxhaxx

you have to wait for Chefano to reply :[ my Dragon fly is arriving today and the adapter is arriving soon after that.


----------



## HeroicPenguin

Quote: 





xxhaxx said:


> you have to wait for Chefano to reply :[ my Dragon fly is arriving today and the adapter is arriving soon after that.


 
   
  Hmm well let me know when you get it then (if Chefano doesn't respond). Pretty concerned about the stability of the unit (especially at $250).


----------



## bl42ed0

This is exactly what I've been looking for! Has anyone tried powering the HE-500 with this?


----------



## Chefano

Quote: 





heroicpenguin said:


> Yeah, that's definitely a secondary option. How big is the gap between the Dragonfly and the port? Does the Dragonfly "wiggle" or move in the port?


 
  Hello *HeroicPenguin.*
   
  There is no movement at all, the fit is tight, but the DF connector is a little longer than the usb std connector.


----------



## HeroicPenguin

Quote: 





chefano said:


> Hello *HeroicPenguin.*
> 
> There is no movement at all, the fit is tight, but the DF connector is a little longer than the usb std connector.


 
   
  Good to know that it's stable, thanks. I might wait for the "Dragontail" thing, but this might be a good option. I'm OCD in a way tha tthe fact that there's a bit of metal showing on the connection might bother me...


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





bl42ed0 said:


> This is exactly what I've been looking for! Has anyone tried powering the HE-500 with this?


 

 I'm hoping to try them today, just as soon as UPS shows up with my 1/8" to 1/4" adapter.


----------



## sygyzy

I am having a hard time grasping the Dragonfly. On paper, and from reviews, it seems to be the ultimate portable USB DAC, many putting it over the E17. Is this some marvel of engineering? Is the diminutive size (compared to an E17 for example), what's driving the $250 cost? I guess what I am wondering is did they unlock something nobody has before (ie Apple and the Retina display) and we'll start seeing DAC's from other manufacturers in the same form factor? Or could FiiO/Creative/M-Audio, etc have made something similar but thought consumers wouldn't pay the cost?


----------



## PolkManiac

What's remarkable is how good it is given it's size.  It's the combination of sound quality and size that makes this thing so good.  It's not the best DAC out there, even at its price, but given how small and portable it is the performance is outstanding.
   
  Only time will tell if another company is able to replicate that mix, but I'd imagine something will come along.


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





polkmaniac said:


> What's remarkable is how good it is given it's size.  It's the combination of sound quality and size that makes this thing so good.  It's not the best DAC out there, even at its price, but given how small and portable it is the performance is outstanding.
> 
> Only time will tell if another company is able to replicate that mix, but I'd imagine something will come along.


 

 Can you (or anyone) recommend a BETTER DAC/amp (any size) with USB connectability at about the same price?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





sygyzy said:


> I am having a hard time grasping the Dragonfly. On paper, and from reviews, it seems to be the ultimate portable USB DAC, many putting it over the E17. Is this some marvel of engineering? Is the diminutive size (compared to an E17 for example), what's driving the $250 cost? I guess what I am wondering is did they unlock something nobody has before (ie Apple and the Retina display) and we'll start seeing DAC's from other manufacturers in the same form factor? Or could FiiO/Creative/M-Audio, etc have made something similar but thought consumers wouldn't pay the cost?


 
  It is a 4 layer circuit board and high end Sabre dac the size of a thumb drive. That is a lot to cram into a small package and do it right.


----------



## OldSkool

UPS finally delivered my adapter. Listening to HD650's first.
   
  Wow! Sound quality is niiice! Compared to the IE7s, it takes a few more clicks of the F9 key, but plenty of volume. Easily passes the Layla test, which I use to check for detail retrieval.
   
  Will try the HE500s in a while, but right now...I'm sorta speechless.


----------



## compoopers

sygyzy said:


> I am having a hard time grasping the Dragonfly. On paper, and from reviews, it seems to be the ultimate portable USB DAC, many putting it over the E17. Is this some marvel of engineering? Is the diminutive size (compared to an E17 for example), what's driving the $250 cost? I guess what I am wondering is did they unlock something nobody has before (ie Apple and the Retina display) and we'll start seeing DAC's from other manufacturers in the same form factor? Or could FiiO/Creative/M-Audio, etc have made something similar but thought consumers wouldn't pay the cost?




I was also curious as to how they could create such a product. Copycats soon?


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> It is a 4 layer circuit board and high end Sabre dac the size of a thumb drive. That is a lot to cram into a small package and do it right


 
  

 Plus not to mention it was designed by the guy behind Wavelength Audio using his streamlength async protocol.  Generally speaking you're not getting a good async implementation in a usb DAC at this price point.  In fact I'm not aware of anything outside of the JKenny DAC which uses a modified Hiface + the same DAC chip as this in a larger outboard unit at a higher cost.  Does this impact the sound at all?  In my estimation it does, it imparts a smoothness I'm not getting in the ODAC that reminds me of what the Audiophilleo did for the couple DACs I used it with.
  
 Now in the end none of this matters if the sound doesn't work for you.  I still find after about 60+ hours it imparts a warm signature and is somewhat lacking in dynamics compared to an O2 amp.  I doubt that's going to change given the constraints of being wholly driven by a USB bus.  It sounds rather glorious with certain things though, such as my GR07s and FXD80s... generally speaking something that is pretty tight in the lower region and has solid treble extension it can sound damn good, definitely better than the E17.  But not quite to the ODAC/O2 level overall, but the DF -> O2 is my fav.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> UPS finally delivered my adapter. Listening to HD650's first.
> 
> Wow! Sound quality is niiice! Compared to the IE7s, it takes a few more clicks of the F9 key, but plenty of volume. Easily passes the Layla test, which I use to check for detail retrieval.
> 
> Will try the HE500s in a while, but right now...I'm sorta speechless.


 
  Wait until you have a couple hundred hours on it and you'll be very happy.


----------



## sygyzy

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Plus not to mention it was designed by the guy behind Wavelength Audio using his streamlength async protocol.  Generally speaking you're not getting a good async implementation in a usb DAC at this price point.  In fact I'm not aware of anything outside of the JKenny DAC which uses a modified Hiface + the same DAC chip as this in a larger outboard unit at a higher cost.  Does this impact the sound at all?  In my estimation it does, it imparts a smoothness I'm not getting in the ODAC that reminds me of what the Audiophilleo did for the couple DACs I used it with.
> 
> Now in the end none of this matters if the sound doesn't work for you.  I still find after about 60+ hours it imparts a warm signature and is somewhat lacking in dynamics compared to an O2 amp.  I doubt that's going to change given the constraints of being wholly driven by a USB bus.  It sounds rather glorious with certain things though, such as my GR07s and FXD80s... generally speaking something that is pretty tight in the lower region and has solid treble extension it can sound damn good, definitely better than the E17.  But not quite to the ODAC/O2 level overall, but the DF -> O2 is my fav.


 
   
  So what's more impressive? The async protocol? Or the size? Or both? Putting size aside, is there another portable USB DAC that costs $250 and sounds just as good? Or does this trump ALL DAC's because if this "streamlength async protocol"?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





sygyzy said:


> So what's more impressive? The async protocol? Or the size? Or both? Putting size aside, is there another portable USB DAC that costs $250 and sounds just as good? Or does this trump ALL DAC's because if this "streamlength async protocol"?


 
  Clearly the size is a handy thing. One less cable and no issue taking it with you. Performance is very strong. Whether it is due to the SAP or the DAC or the synergy of both, I have no idea. I am really enjoying it with the HD25's while I travel. It also sounds great with the HD650's at home. I have not heard a $250 DAC to compare, but there are certainly a lot of them I have not heard. I am very pleased with this purchase and I expect to use it for quite awhile. Since I am on the road over 150 nights per year that is meaningful for me. When you leave the big rig behind it is nice to not have to make a huge compromise while traveling.
   
  As always around here, YMMV.....


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





sygyzy said:


> So what's more impressive? The async protocol? Or the size? Or both? Putting size aside, is there another portable USB DAC that costs $250 and sounds just as good? Or does this trump ALL DAC's because if this "streamlength async protocol"?


 
   
   
  It's just one facet, but when one asks why this is special it's a facet that contributes.  Gordon's own DACs use this and he licenses to the tech out to other manufacturers (see here: http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/HW/USB_SPDIF.htm), but I'm not aware of anything else at this price-point that does.   Considering all devices that license this tech and *only* act as convertors actually cost more than the DF it's a pretty cool thing to have.  Now just as a DAC on sound alone, it's the best I've heard in the price range, but I haven't heard alot so take that fwiw.  Something like the Dacport (regular or LX) might be better and I have yet to see that comparison.  But those are still much larger outboard DACs that a bit more $$ and significantly more power hungry.
   
  In short, IMO this is a bit of a game changer - between the size + engineering + price point + performance.  It's a device that should push the industry forward.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Wait until you have a couple hundred hours on it and you'll be very happy.


 
   
  Happier than I am now? That would be approaching Key West happy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Drives HE-500's just fine. Not as well as the Lyr, but very well indeed. Still amazed at the SQ of this tiny thing, but it is my first Sabre DAC.
   
  The only negative so far is that I don't like how vulnerable the DF is, hanging off the side like that. I suppose this rumored Dragontail will be a wise investment.


----------



## belisk

Other than the OP, what are other peoples thoughts on the TH900 or D7000 paired up with the DF?


----------



## Coolsax

i currently use a HRT MSII and unless i'm running it through a self powered USB hub I get a lot of static when connected to a laptop,  does the dragonfly have any issues with static plugged into a laptop?  if not this might just be the simple solution i've been wanting.  I currently run the MSII through a Fiio E9 into my HD650s but would like a simpler option such as a decent DAC/AMP that is less than $600 but if the sound quality is good the cheaper the better.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





coolsax said:


> i currently use a HRT MSII and unless i'm running it through a self powered USB hub I get a lot of static when connected to a laptop,  does the dragonfly have any issues with static plugged into a laptop?  if not this might just be the simple solution i've been wanting.  I currently run the MSII through a Fiio E9 into my HD650s but would like a simpler option such as a decent DAC/AMP that is less than $600 but if the sound quality is good the cheaper the better.


 
  I have experienced no static issues. The DF pairs well with the HD650's You would enjoy this combination.


----------



## Coolsax

thanks.. may just have to try it then.. i just want a simple solution for the area i have my head fi set up... i've also been considering the fiio E17 b/c it docks with the E9 or the audinst or the Dac magic plus ( though that is lowering in my opinion based on the reviews i've been reading)  .  I would like something that can capably decode at least 24/96 b/c i do listen to HD tracks files from time to time.  any other suggestions would be appreciated as well.


----------



## Chefano

Quote: 





coolsax said:


> i currently use a HRT MSII and unless i'm running it through a self powered USB hub I get a lot of static when connected to a laptop,  does the dragonfly have any issues with static plugged into a laptop?  if not this might just be the simple solution i've been wanting.  I currently run the MSII through a Fiio E9 into my HD650s but would like a simpler option such as a decent DAC/AMP that is less than $600 but if the sound quality is good the cheaper the better.


 
  No static


----------



## bobeau

I've never actually heard of anyone getting static thru an outboard USB DAC/amp before though unless it's a driver/handshaking issue or something. 
   
  If your USB bus is faulty/damaged in the way it delivers power any audio device that is USB powered may be susceptible, unless the PS on the HRT is faulty somehow.  Sounds like something somewhere is broken.  I'd probably try running the HRT out of another machine first to rule that out.


----------



## kwkarth

We're not getting the whole story here. Since the HRT MS2 has no headlamp in it, what are you plugging it into as a head amp to drive your headphones, the E9? How do you know you're not getting the "static" from the e9? I would rather hear about the HRT HS, which would be more of an apples to apples comparison.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





coolsax said:


> I currently run the MSII through a Fiio E9 into my HD650s


 
   
  Note that the FiiO E9 cannot handle the 2.25 Vrms maximum output of the MSII without clipping.


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I have experienced no static issues. The DF pairs well with the HD650's You would enjoy this combination.


 
   
  That's odd..... Aren't the HD650 and HD600 similar regarding driving requirements?  The DF can drive everything else I own, but I can't get a good listening volume on my HD600 with it.  I'm on Windows XP, and the volume is maxed on the driver, therefore I assume it's maxed on the DF?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





coolsax said:


> thanks.. may just have to try it then.. i just want a simple solution for the area i have my head fi set up... i've also been considering the fiio E17 b/c it docks with the E9 or the audinst or the Dac magic plus ( though that is lowering in my opinion based on the reviews i've been reading)  .  I would like something that can capably decode at least 24/96 b/c i do listen to HD tracks files from time to time.  any other suggestions would be appreciated as well.


 
  I also own the Dac Magic Plus and I have enjoyed it. I can;t speak for the other reviews, but I have had many great hours of listening to it with AIFF files.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> That's odd..... Aren't the HD650 and HD600 similar regarding driving requirements?  The DF can drive everything else I own, but I can't get a good listening volume on my HD600 with it.  I'm on Windows XP, and the volume is maxed on the driver, therefore I assume it's maxed on the DF?


 
  Unless you want ear rattling volume, the DF has plenty of volume with the HD650's. I am usually at about 3/4 max on Win 7 Pro.


----------



## Coolsax

I'm pretty sure its the HRT, as i used to use the HRT in main set up before getting a squeezebox touch.  it was connected to a different laptop at that time as well.  If i plugged the HRT directly into the laptop then i would get static, but if i ran the HRT off of a selfpowered USB HUB then I don't get static.. .this has been true on 3 different laptops, and before i even tried it with the e9.  so maybe there is a Power supply issue with the HRT, but it seems to have no issues with power on the hub... i have not tried it on a desktop as we don't currently have one.   good to know about the clipping issue, thankfully i don't run them very loud, but that makes me want to change the set up even more to be safe.. whether i just get a new amp and leave the set up as is or get a whole new all in one solution.  hence my interest in the dragonfly.


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> That's odd..... Aren't the HD650 and HD600 similar regarding driving requirements?  The DF can drive everything else I own, but I can't get a good listening volume on my HD600 with it.  I'm on Windows XP, and the volume is maxed on the driver, therefore I assume it's maxed on the DF?


 
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Unless you want ear rattling volume, the DF has plenty of volume with the HD650's. I am usually at about 3/4 max on Win 7 Pro.


 
   
  Well, something must be wrong .... I wonder if I'm not getting full gain control on my DF?


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> Can you (or anyone) recommend a BETTER DAC/amp (any size) with USB connectability at about the same price?


 
   
  I have an Audio-gd NFB-16 here, of which I like the sound slightly better (I listen to a lot of jazz and classical and am picky about how instrument sound), but it is, relative to the Dragonfly, a lot bigger and bulkier. Headphone drive isn't any better, however.
   
  Edit: Just thought I'd plug a pair of FitEar 334s in briefly and the pairing seems to match up reasonably well, if they do bring out the background hiss and odd computer noise a bit.
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The reason this kind of thing hasn't appeared before is, first of all, the chips being used are relatively recent designs, such as the Sabre DAC. The second reason is 4 layer circuit boards cost a _fortune_ to prototype and produce. You might have missed Gordon Rankin talking about spending $100k of his own money do to this. Add to that he is taking a gamble on it actually selling in numbers. IIRC there are many places that will make circuit boards for you, but few that do 4 layer ones.
   
  Quote: 





compoopers said:


> I was also curious as to how they could create such a product. Copycats soon?


 
   
  See above. Would probably cost too much in the way of outlay to try, though you never know, if it takes off, someone with deep pockets might try.


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





currawong said:


> I have an Audio-gd NFB-16 here, of which I like the sound slightly better (I listen to a lot of jazz and classical and am picky about how instrument sound), but it is, relative to the Dragonfly, a lot bigger and bulkier. Headphone drive isn't any better, however.


 
   
  Any thoughts on the new Audio-gd NFB-11.32 which I saw on their site for $300.  Uses the Sabre chip.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> Any thoughts on the new Audio-gd NFB-11.32 which I saw on their site for $300.  Uses the Sabre chip.


 
   
  Holy hell.  A 9018 device for $335 + ship.  That's just... amazing.  The DF is working with the 2023 Sabre which is a commodity/low power 24 bit variant, common in DACs ~$500 price point.  The 9018 is the TOTL 32 bit variant and tends to be found in kilobuck DACs.
   
  The fact of the matter is the DF is going to be limited by USB bus power both in current and voltage swing, and esp. a device of this size is going to limited by how well it can regulate dirty USB power.  Unless you're a laptop road warrior or price is an issue it's probably best to look at other things if you can spend a bit more cash.  I'm not shy in saying on fidelity alone I still prefer by ODAC/O2 combo, which is more of a transportable solution that costs about $50 above DF and mostly benefits from having the amp driven by a 9V outboard PS.  The DF kills it in convenience factor and its DAC implementation is a bit better than the ODAC, but the O2 is a more capable amp to my ears, even for easy to drive things.  But compared to other outboard USB driven DAC/amps the DF is pretty great - taking size, cost, convenience, and performance, it's unique.  I didn't like it with the EPH-100 but I *love* it with some of the other cans I recently picked up, esp. the GR07 MkII.  But my use case is pretty explicit - 11" MBA -> DF -> IEM/small portable can so I can use at coffee shops, my co-working space, etc.


----------



## Chefano

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Holy hell.  A 9018 device for $335 + ship.  That's just... amazing.  The DF is working with the 2023 Sabre which is a commodity/low power 24 bit variant, common in DACs ~$500 price point.  The 9018 is the TOTL 32 bit variant and tends to be found in kilobuck DACs.
> 
> The fact of the matter is the DF is going to be limited by USB bus power both in current and voltage swing, and esp. a device of this size is going to limited by how well it can regulate dirty USB power.  Unless you're a laptop road warrior or price is an issue it's probably best to look at other things if you can spend a bit more cash.  I'm not shy in saying on fidelity alone I still prefer by ODAC/O2 combo, which is more of a transportable solution that costs about $50 above DF and mostly benefits from having the amp driven by a 9V outboard PS.  The DF kills it in convenience factor and its DAC implementation is a bit better than the ODAC, but the O2 is a more capable amp to my ears, even for easy to drive things.  But compared to other outboard USB driven DAC/amps the DF is pretty great - taking size, cost, convenience, and performance, it's unique.  I didn't like it with the EPH-100 but I *love* it with some of the other cans I recently picked up, esp. the GR07 MkII.  But my use case is pretty explicit - 11" MBA -> DF -> IEM/small portable can so I can use at coffee shops, my co-working space, etc.


 
  Ive ordered mine..
  My wallet cries.. LOL


----------



## utdeep

Uh... as usual, the typical head-fi hype engine is starting to rev up for a device.  Let's be clear... this is an astounding device for $250.  I prefer it to the Centrance DacPort.  It is an upgrade from the headphone port on a MacBook Retina.  It is an amazing value for $250.
   
  However, it is not perfect.  I loved it with Edition 8s but I'm not impressed with it and my JH16 Pros.  There is congestion with complex music that I didn't see with the DacPort or with the Predator (the two other USB DAC/amps I've owned).
   
  Your mileage may vary.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





currawong said:


> I have an Audio-gd NFB-16 here, of which I like the sound slightly better (I listen to a lot of jazz and classical and am picky about how instrument sound), but it is, relative to the Dragonfly, a lot bigger and bulkier. Headphone drive isn't any better, however.
> 
> Edit: Just thought I'd plug a pair of FitEar 334s in briefly and the pairing seems to match up reasonably well, if they do bring out the background hiss and odd computer noise a bit.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Amos, how are you enjoying the FitEar 334's? Any regret to not have custom monitors?


----------



## utdeep

I ended up returning the Audioquest Dragonfly.  While it was amazing with the Edition 8s, I couldn't understand the congestion I was noticing in more complex music (like the recent Hans Zimmer Dark Knight Rises soundtrack) with the JH16Pros.  I found the headphone out of the MacBook Pro to better at handling this.
   
  The main purpose of the Dragonfly and the JH16Pro was to have an awesome portable rig but it didn't work out as well as I had hoped.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





utdeep said:


> I ended up returning the Audioquest Dragonfly.  While it was amazing with the Edition 8s, I couldn't understand the congestion I was noticing in more complex music (like the recent Hans Zimmer Dark Knight Rises soundtrack) with the JH16Pros.  I found the headphone out of the MacBook Pro to better at handling this.
> 
> The main purpose of the Dragonfly and the JH16Pro was to have an awesome portable rig but it didn't work out as well as I had hoped.


 
  How many hours did you have on it?. Seems pretty much the opinion around here you need a couple hundred hours on the DF before you get its best performance. That was also the position the folks at Audioquest had as well. It won't be at its best right out of the box.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> How many hours did you have on it?. Seems pretty much the opinion around here you need a couple hundred hours on the DF before you get its best performance. That was also the position the folks at Audioquest had as well. It won't be at its best right out of the box.


 
   
  I'm >100 hours on my DF at this point, used it for the past couple weeks to drive everything with... mostly JVC S500 and GR07s, both new and using DF for listening and burn-in of those.
   
  Using my EPH-100s as a reference the difference between plugging in straight to the MBA headphone out v/ the DF my criticism of this combo stands... it's bloaty/congested.  Not saying there haven't been any changes but they're subtle compared to the overarching mismatch going on here.  My opinion of the DF with the GR07 = fireworks, awesome sauce, and to a lesser extent the S500 (an improvement over the MBA's headphone out, but not quite to justify the price to drive those alone).  I also have some used FXD80s and am on the fence which way I prefer those as they can be slightly bloaty w/ the DF but it gives them a wonderful sense of dimension, they themselves could possible use more burn-in.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> I'm >100 hours on my DF at this point, used it for the past couple weeks to drive everything with... mostly JVC S500 and GR07s, both new and using DF for listening and burn-in of those.
> 
> Using my EPH-100s as a reference the difference between plugging in straight to the MBA headphone out v/ the DF my criticism of this combo stands... it's bloaty/congested.  Not saying there haven't been any changes but they're subtle compared to the overarching mismatch going on here.  My opinion of the DF with the GR07 = fireworks, awesome sauce, and to a lesser extent the S500 (an improvement over the MBA's headphone out, but not quite to justify the price to drive those alone).  I also have some used FXD80s and am on the fence which way I prefer those as they can be slightly bloaty w/ the DF but it gives them a wonderful sense of dimension, they themselves could possible use more burn-in.


 
  You certainly have to have a good match! The Senn's (HD650 and HD25's) both work very well with the DF.


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> You certainly have to have a good match! The Senn's (HD650 and HD25's) both work very well with the DF.


 
   
  +1 on the HD25, but the DF can't seem to drive the HD600 beyond an extremely low volume.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote: 





utdeep said:


> I ended up returning the Audioquest Dragonfly.  While it was amazing with the Edition 8s, I couldn't understand the congestion I was noticing in more complex music (like the recent Hans Zimmer Dark Knight Rises soundtrack) with the JH16Pros.


 
   
  The congestion isn't because of the DF.  The congestion is because the album is sh1ttily mastered.  Lots of clipping/limiting.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/619575/dark-knight-fail-another-cd-mastered-with-excessive-gain
   
  Same problem with the OSTs from the other two Nolan Batman movies, as well as Inception.  It's a bloody travesty.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> +1 on the HD25, but the DF can't seem to drive the HD600 beyond an extremely low volume.


 
  Funny, it has plenty for the 650's on my HP Elite PC.


----------



## utdeep

Seriously?! That sucks. It even says the whole soundtrack is "mastered for iTunes". Hate the movie... should have known nothing good could come from it. I'll just pretend Chris Nolan and Hans Zimmer had nothing to do with it. 

Anyway, had about 150 to 200 hours on the Dragonfly. Saw similar issues when playing many tunes from my collection.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> The congestion isn't because of the DF.  The congestion is because the album is sh1ttily mastered.  Lots of clipping/limiting.


 
   
  Maybe in that case, but with my EPH-100s where I've listened to a variety of material it's consistent.  All I have to do is run it thru my O2 and that congestion and bloat vanishes (as much as it can for those).


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> Any thoughts on the new Audio-gd NFB-11.32 which I saw on their site for $300.  Uses the Sabre chip.


 
   
  I had the NFB-11. Once Kingwa nailed down the issues with the clock for the Sabre chip the sound was pretty good. The sound was a bit less mellow than his WM8741 offerings. Would be interesting to compare the sound to the Dragonfly.
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  This is not a problem with "burn-in" but  the limitations of USB power. That's why you see portable amps loaded with capacitors, so they can store enough power in reserve for those big transients. Adding a regular headphone amp into the chain will rectify that.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





currawong said:


> I had the NFB-11. Once Kingwa nailed down the issues with the clock for the Sabre chip the sound was pretty good. The sound was a bit less mellow than his WM8741 offerings. Would be interesting to compare the sound to the Dragonfly.
> 
> 
> This is not a problem with "burn-in" but  the limitations of USB power. That's why you see portable amps loaded with capacitors, so they can store enough power in reserve for those big transients. Adding a regular headphone amp into the chain will rectify that.


 
  Any good headphone jack to RCA in cable you like? This is one area I have not seen anyone use the DF for. I will have to try it when the Taboo arrives...


----------



## compoopers

So basically, it'll sound better with low impedance headphones and muddier with high impedance phones?


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





compoopers said:


> So basically, it'll sound better with low impedance headphones and muddier with high impedance phones?


 
   
  Probably. I don't have any suitable high-impedance headphones here to test with.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





currawong said:


> Probably. I don't have any suitable high-impedance headphones here to test with.


 
   
  Some of the larger mismatches here (EPH-100 & JH16) are 16 ohm IEMs.  
   
  I'm finding the difference between straight DF -> S500 and DF -> GR07 nearly imperceptible compared to DF -> O2 for both, and these are 32 and 50 ohms respectively with high sensitivity.  At least nothing that would hit you over the head.  My 50 ohm lower sensitivity Thunderpants do benefit from the O2 in the mix, a bit thin/lacking dynamics straight out of the DF.


----------



## Currawong

Oh, fair enough. I wasn't thinking of IEMs. I have Anakchan's FitEar 334s here, which, like other dynamic IEMs, I don't find to be great out of anything, even my main rig or any of the 8 portable amps or DAC/amps I have here, but do out of the NFB-16, which I totally didn't expect. 
   
  I'm going to try the Dragonfly as a source with the RX-3 next, as I'm thinking this might be a candidate to upgrade my transportable rig to, since I have a MacBook Air.


----------



## compoopers

So I'm not sure if I understand why the amp doesn't "match" well... I'm relatively inexperienced but I don't know about any property that can make it sound crystal clear with some headphones and not with others...


----------



## Currawong

Could be the that, like so many recent "high end" Japanese IEMs, they have a piercing treble that makes a lot of music sound sibilant, which annoys me. I've experienced a similar thing with full-sized headphones.  It isn't such a problem with old jazz and classical but it can make modern pop intolerable.
   
  I went back just now and tried the Dragonfly with the 334s out of my Air. They cause the Dragonfly to reveal a bit of computer noise, but enough enough to matter when playing back.  I think my disagreement could be with the Sabre DAC, as the ES9018 variants, when used in USB-powered or cheaper DACs have always sounded a bit dry to me. I should probably stop here, as I'm talking about extreme subtleties when playing back top recordings which will probably not be very relevant for most people who are interested in the Dragonfly, especially people who might be buying it as their first DAC/amp.


----------



## tzjin

Quote: 





compoopers said:


> So I'm not sure if I understand why the amp doesn't "match" well... I'm relatively inexperienced but I don't know about any property that can make it sound crystal clear with some headphones and not with others...


 
   
  As with most people, it's not so much some magical match as it is two components that cover each other's weaknesses. Imagine the K701 paired with a bass-light amplifier. That's not going to be too pleasant.


----------



## Curly21029

Could anyone compare the DAC/amp quality of the Dragonfly to the Nuforce Icon HD/HDP?  The Dragonfly clearly wins on convenience -- THE selling point for me -- but I sure do enjoy the atypically wide soundstage breadth of the Nuforce.  I'll be using low-impedance cans for the foreseeable future, so authority is not a great concern.


----------



## Puma Cat

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Mine did this out of the box, I thought they designed it to angle downward a bit to relieve pressure.  Guess I must have gotten a used unit?  Hmm, it didn't come sealed.


 
  Mine looks exactly like this as well.


----------



## Puma Cat

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> You are right.  Instead of just holding it in the air I put it on a flat surface.  There is a small downward angle.   Oh so slight but there.


 
  Mine looks exactly like this as well.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





puma cat said:


> Mine looks exactly like this as well.


 
   
  I have another theory that the angle might be there because of the hump the headphone jack creates.  If for instance I put it in the back of my mac mini in between a couple memory sticks it centers it a bit better.


----------



## Curly21029

After much leisurely reading here and elsewhere, I've both satiated and exasperated my Dragonfly curiosity.  Described particulars are somewhat contradictory, but contributions of "mids-focused, warm, tight bass," and "smooth" coupled with its semi-consensus predilection for easily-driven to moderately difficult full-sized 'phones have persuaded me to work a familiar contact tomorrow.
   
  Thanks to all!


----------



## Coolsax

Well I decided to pick one up yesterday since my local bestbuy had one in stock.  color me impressed so far.  the Dragonfly drives my HD650s with no issues whatsoever and sounds pretty good right out of the box.  Going to go ahead and spend the next week or 2 just using it and then plug my 650s back into my old set up and see what i think, but I have a feeling i might be good with just this for my head rig. Since i use my main two channel system for any kind of massive critical listening i'm not trying to match that sound exactly.  I'm impressed with the build quality of the Dragonfly and highly impressed with the lack of static since I always had static coming from my HRT when connected directly to the laptop regardless of usb port.  plugging directly into my laptop is so much easier than plugging in the DAC, turning on the Amp and making sure its not too loud and then putting on the headphones.. really hoping i'm still has happy in a few weeks as i am now.


----------



## jaydome

Quote: 





currawong said:


> I had the NFB-11. Once Kingwa nailed down the issues with the clock for the Sabre chip the sound was pretty good. The sound was a bit less mellow than his WM8741 offerings. Would be interesting to compare the sound to the Dragonfly.
> 
> 
> This is not a problem with "burn-in" but  the limitations of USB power. That's why you see portable amps loaded with capacitors, so they can store enough power in reserve for those big transients. Adding a regular headphone amp into the chain will rectify that.


 
  Just clarifying as a few people have said this doesn't go well with low impedance IEMs... this will work good as a DAC paired with my Pico Slim and JH16? Really like the build of this thing but some comments have been a little discouraging.  Also if I use it with the slim will that "count" towards the burn in on the DF so I can then try HP out?
   
  Edit: I'm also curious about how using it as line out is "low-current operation" as this guy says if you're just maxing out the volume to use it as a DAC.  Here he is talking about the "digital" sound it has with HP out vs using it with an amp:
   
  "I used the DragonFly as a DAC for an Ncore amplifier I patched together today. I think the device sounds better in this mode. I don't hear as much digital edge or sibilance. Mercman posted over an AA saying his DragonFly sounded better used as a signal source for an amplifier. If this device does in fact sound better in low-current operation, I suspect operating it at higher currents required by headphones causes an extra measure of jitter, among other things, given the several sources of psu voltage noise that current will cause or induce."
  http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/audioquest-dragonfly-24-96-asynchronous-usb-dac-headphone-amp-12353/index8.html
   
  Can someone explain this to me please? Thank you.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





jaydome said:


> Just clarifying as a few people have said this doesn't go well with low impedance IEMs... this will work good as a DAC paired with my Pico Slim and JH16?


 
   
  Some more impressions on this... I have been using some JVC FXD80s out of the DF for the past couple week and supposedly these have a pretty similar signature to the newly released JVC on-ear S500s.  I wasn't really hearing it, the FXD's seemed to be a bit too strong/loose in the bass and syruppy sweet in the top end, kinda smoothed over presentation... more to the fun side than accurate.
   
  It didn't dawn on me to check out the specs for the phones... the S500s are 32 ohms, 106db/1mW, FXDs are 20/102.  I had tried the DF -> O2 -> S500 and found that happily enough to be very similar to the sound to just the DF out.  I'm no golden ears, it's similar enough that I would certainly fail a blind test.  Now I just tried the DF -> O2 -> FXD80s and wow, I can more certainly see the family resemblance.  
   
  More interesting is that straight out of my MBA's headphone out I prefer the FXDs to the S500s.  But overall I prefer the S500s out of the DF, it's a great  pairing.
   
  So output impedance is out of the question.  But I seem to recall certain headphone amps work better at certain loads (usually when you see a spec sheet at different loads you'll see a bell curve of where they give the most current based on load).  So perhaps for whatever reason the DF has trouble giving enough current at lower impedances.  It's interesting that the O2 seems to add little to the sound with both my S500s and GR07s (50/105) but helps a tad to fill out my Thunderpants (50/98, not sure if the much larger drivers have something to do with it).  It also seems to add a bit of control to the bottom end of my Ed8s (30/96) but not to a large degree.
   
  As usual, YMMV, this is just my own interpretation of what I hear.  I probably have at least a few hours of head-time now for each phone listed above with the DF, and some more like 20+, and the unit should certainly burned in enough at this point (TBH, I'm not hearing any obvious changes - maybe there were in the first day or two, but past that I'm dubious).  If you have a bevy of phones at various impedances/sensitivities try it out for yourself.  It's a pretty stellar device for what it is and if you have Amazon prime you can purchase, use for up to a month, and return with only losing the cost of return shipping. I can say for certain I like the S500s and GR07s straight out of the DF vs. out of my ODAC/O2, and that in itself is pretty remarkable.


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> +1 on the HD25, but the DF can't seem to drive the HD600 beyond an extremely low volume.


 
   
  My apologies to anyone put off by my inability to drive the HD600s..... they're working fantastic now.  I didn't understand how the Senn HD650 users could be so satisfied while I just couldn't get any volume out of my HD600s.
   
  When I would first plug the DF into the computer (Windows XP), I would set the default sound device to the DF, then set the volume on "Device Volume" all the way at the top before plugging anything into the DF.  I don't know why, but this had the effect of making my max volume very, very low. 
   
  Today I followed the same procedure, but just left the volume midway before plugging into the DF.  I don't know why this makes a difference but I'm getting optimal performance now.  Getting great deep bass and volume playing a CD with the computer volume at about 40%.
   
  I can take my external amp(s) out of the loop now!!


----------



## longbowbbs

bobjs said:


> My apologies to anyone put off by my inability to drive the HD600s..... they're working fantastic now.  I didn't understand how the Senn HD650 users could be so satisfied while I just couldn't get any volume out of my HD600s.
> 
> When I would first plug the DF into the computer (Windows XP), I would set the default sound device to the DF, then set the volume on "Device Volume" all the way at the top before plugging anything into the DF.  I don't know why, but this had the effect of making my max volume very, very low.
> 
> ...




Fantastic! I am glad you got it going.


----------



## Coolsax

i am just impressed at how good this sounds in such a small package.  To simplify my head rig down to just this and a pair of headphones is incredible.. i may try other stuff down the road, but most of my head rig time is casual listening that i can't imagine needing anything more... wanting is a different story altogether though as we all know there's always more to want in the audio world.


----------



## Curly21029

I was brokered a D-Fly today.  My time with it is limited, but I honestly wasn't overly impressed when I first popped it into my Macbook Pro.  Don't get me wrong, it sounded GREAT and couldn't recognize any precipitable faults, but I just didn't achieve and immediate "wow."  That was, until I switched to the headphone output...
   
  ...in a word, the switch to the standard output sounded like paste after my ears were accustomed to Audioquest's little marvel.  Admittedly, upon unboxing it and experiencing its diminutiveness first-hand I predisposed that its providable gains would be marginal at best.  After the reality check given by the comparative mediocrity of the onboard sound card there is no doubt that the DF is a sizable improvement.  By what attributes?  Name your criteria and one simply needs to respond "yup."
   
  Without donning the rose-coloreds too much for my relative experience, thus far the DF has exhibited a vast leap forward from stock while being peerlessly convenient.  I have yet to compare it directly to my Nuforce Icon HD as an all-in-one nor have I used it to feed external amplification, but I've already all-but-confirmed parallels to my established expedient setup and suspect the two will perform comparably when trialled competitively tomorrow.
   
  FYI:
  -FLAC -> Amarra Full Playlist -> MBP -> DF -> K550
  -like others, my USB connector is set rigidly sloping slightly downward directly out of the box
  -the LED isn't as obtrusive as I expected
  -the unit is nicely weighted and the soft-touch rubberized finish is excellent


----------



## checha31

Tried the friend's AQ Dragonfly with my HE-500 and it worked. I'm impressed enough to buy one. Hope long term use won't damage the Dragonfly.


----------



## mikemercer

Head-fi Devotees,
  
 I admit I thought Jude MAY have overstated the performance of the Dragonfly (I heard it in a store,
 out East, but their rig was obviously completely F^%$) in his review - but I was COMPLETELY WRONG.
  
 I should never doubt him!!!
  
 This thing kicks ASS.  I'm listening to Radiohead's _Kid A_ through my Audeze LCD-3's & Dragonfly right now.
 WOW.  Been running signal through it for 5 days - it just popped WIDE OPEN:
  
 Here's a pic of the unit and my Audeze cans
  
 I'm going to take a cue from Jude, and from now on when I travel w/ my Macbook, I'm going to travel with this thing.  
  
 I'm sure it will seem like I'm hating on CEntrance, but I compared it to the DACport.  It could very well be more colored (the Dragonfly)
 but I prefer it's coloration!  It also has greater punch in the lower octaves.  I don't think it's exaggerated either.  It also definitely has, to my ears,
 a wider and deeper soundstage than the DACport.  Plus timbre - which is the most important thing to me, is getting better each day it seems!
  
 I gave my DACport to a friend who needed a solid, small head amp, but I'm hoping to get another one from the CEntrance team to do more 
 side-by-side listening.  However, given there is no cable to worry about, the ease of use and it's insane portability (I just slip it into my memory
 stick case I have clipped in my backpack) I think this product is a WINNER.


----------



## William007

Will this work with ipad-camera conection kit? I don't have a laptop :s


----------



## Curly21029

Quote: 





checha31 said:


> Tried the friend's AQ Dragonfly with my HE-500 and it worked. I'm impressed enough to buy one. *Hope long term use won't damage the Dragonfly.*


 
   
  How so?


----------



## mikemercer

Quote: 





william007 said:


> Will this work with ipad-camera conection kit? I don't have a laptop :s


 
  I'll try it.  Not sure!
  I use that set-up (camera kit) w/ my CEntrance DACmini PX - so I'll give it a go


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





mikemercer said:


> Head-fi Devotees,
> 
> I admit I thought Jude MAY have overstated the performance of the Dragonfly (I heard it in a store,
> out East, but their rig was obviously completely F^%$) in his review - but I was COMPLETELY WRONG.
> ...


 
  Very Nice! I certainly am enjoying it with my Senn HD650's and HD25-1's via the MBP and Amarra....Awesome little unit!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





william007 said:


> Will this work with ipad-camera conection kit? I don't have a laptop :s


 
  It will not....It requires too much power.


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





jaydome said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I just set up my MacBook Pro to Dragonfly to Pico Slim to Fit Ear 334s, which are universal versions of highly sensitive custom IEMs and the result is very good, albeit the 334s get hiss from absolutely everything they are plugged into. Volume with the Dragonfly is at maximum so only the Pico Slim's volume is being used. I think I've found my perfect cafe rig.
   
  As for "burn in" just leave it plugged into your computer all the time and enjoy the music.
   
  Quote: 





mikemercer said:


> Head-fi Devotees,
> 
> I admit I thought Jude MAY have overstated the performance of the Dragonfly (I heard it in a store,
> out East, but their rig was obviously completely F^%$) in his review - but I was COMPLETELY WRONG.
> ...


 
   
  I hope I can do a comparison as well. I was scratching my head about Jude's comments as well initially, but it does punch way above its price I reckon. What I've found is that Sabre-based DACs require an excellent quality digital input not to sound awful, so I imagine much of its good sound has to do with Gordon using his own tech to make it.


----------



## MickeyVee

I was listening to some Deadmau5 through my rDAC/Lyr combo (with the Senn HD700) and decided to shut it down since I haven't used the Dragonfly for a while.  I fully expected it to sound like cr@p right after enjoying the rDAC/Lyr.. well.. boy, was I wrong! Dynamics, punch, pretty much everything is there and I am enjoying it no less than the desktop combo. Sure, the Lyr punches harder and provides more slam but the Dragonfly is no slouch. 
  Madonna's 'Turn Up the Radio' remix just came on and the Dragonfly is really putting out. 
  I'm impressed all over again, especially driving the HD700's.


----------



## longbowbbs

No surprise, but great to see MickeyVee!


----------



## William007

longbowbbs said:


> It will not....It requires too much power.



Maybe it will work when you use a powered usb hub  thanks anyway!


----------



## eyal1983

Using it with the HE-400 i just received today.. one word: WOW


----------



## HeroicPenguin

So, can the Dragonfly just be used as a DAC? Wouldn't it be double amping by going from Dragonfly -> amp or is there a way to turn off the amp function in the Dragonfly? I've been confused as to how people have done this.


----------



## eyal1983

yes, it can be used as a DAC-only when needed.
  if you maximize the volume of the computer and the DF too 100%, then it "knows" to bypass it's AMP section.
  (Page 3 in user manual)


----------



## HeroicPenguin

Quote: 





eyal1983 said:


> yes, it can be used as a DAC-only when needed.
> if you maximize the volume of the computer and the DF too 100%, then it "knows" to bypass it's AMP section.
> (Page 3 in user manual)


 
   
  Ah, ok thanks! That's been bothering me as to how people do that. With that in mind then, I think that's worth a purchase. I can get rid of my HRT MSII and get this. This would be a step up as a DAC right?


----------



## eyal1983

the DF is >= MS2+
  and MS2+ *>* MS2
   
  so, as a transitive
  DF *>* MS2


----------



## saeyedoc

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> It will not....It requires too much power.


 
  Won't it work if you use a powered USB hub?
   
  Sorry, didn't see the above duplicate answer


----------



## HeroicPenguin

Quote: 





eyal1983 said:


> yes, it can be used as a DAC-only when needed.
> if you maximize the volume of the computer and the DF too 100%, then it "knows" to bypass it's AMP section.
> (Page 3 in user manual)


 
   
  Sorry, but I want to clarify this. This is what the manual says:
   
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]"DragonFly is also capable of being employed as a traditional fixed-output source component (such as a CD, DVD or Blu-ray player), and can be connected to a standard input on a receiver or preamplifier. For this application, both the music player’s volume control and the main computer volume control should be set to maximum. This "fixed output mode" allows your audio or AV system’s volume control to be in charge."[/size][/size]
   
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]So "traditional fixed-output source" means a DAC only correct? So the volume of the machine and the player has to be at max for this to work? Does it not work if the player volume is not max (and how would it detect that)?[/size][/size]


----------



## Todd R

Quote: 





heroicpenguin said:


> [size=x-small][size=x-small]So "traditional fixed-output source" means a DAC only correct? So the volume of the machine and the player has to be at max for this to work? Does it not work if the player volume is not max (and how would it detect that)?[/size][/size]


 
   
  It still works, but to get the best sound you need to have the volume controls maxed. Digital volume controls reduce volume by throwing away bits of resolution, so you keep the iTunes slider at max volume to get the highest resolution.
 Analog control should be at it's highest to maximize signal to noise ratio as well as to insure you have enough gain for your amp.


----------



## zeeko

Thank you so much for the review , It was  more then great .But I'm wondering , if there is any way I can hook up this with may  _[size=small]SanDisk[/size]_[size=small] [/size]player ?!!!!


----------



## nc8000

No. This is a usb dac so needs to be connected to a usb host device with power enough to actually power the device


----------



## nc8000

Quote: 





todd r said:


> It still works, but to get the best sound you need to have the volume controls maxed. Digital volume controls reduce volume by throwing away bits of resolution, so you keep the iTunes slider at max volume to get the highest resolution.
> Analog control should be at it's highest to maximize signal to noise ratio as well as to insure you have enough gain for your amp.


 
   
  Only problem with that is that when I keep the windows volume at 100% and the player (iTunes, Foobar etc.) also at 100% i only get a fraction of useable volume control on my Adam A3X active monitors (volume starts at 7 and by 7:30 on the volume control the volume is way too loud to listen to).


----------



## jude

Quote: 





nc8000 said:


> Only problem with that is that when I keep the windows volume at 100% and the player (iTunes, Foobar etc.) also at 100% i only get a fraction of useable volume control on my Adam A3X active monitors (volume starts at 7 and by 7:30 on the volume control the volume is way too loud to listen to).


 
   
  nc8000, just use the Dragonfly's volume (via the computer's volume control) to turn it down enough to get your A3X's volume control range where you want it--again, the Dragonfly's is an analog volume control.
   
  I have a couple of source components with digital volume controls, and I still use them for volume control--yes, they're dropping bits to reduce volume, but I'm not hearing the effects from it (except for the change in amplitude).


----------



## HeroicPenguin

Quote: 





todd r said:


> It still works, but to get the best sound you need to have the volume controls maxed. Digital volume controls reduce volume by throwing away bits of resolution, so you keep the iTunes slider at max volume to get the highest resolution.
> Analog control should be at it's highest to maximize signal to noise ratio as well as to insure you have enough gain for your amp.


 
   
  Hmm didn't know that, thanks! It does limit the volume that I can use with IEMs on my MacBook (although the Shift+Option method definitely helps), but it should have enough variation to use.


----------



## mikemercer

I wanted to be completely open and honest: Offer up some transparency about my thoughts regarding the Dragonfly (given that I worked for CEntrance
  and don't anymore):
   
  Even when I worked for CEntrance, I was always straight-up about my feelings regarding products and I think Michael Goodman will agree with that.
  I am a writer/reviewer, first-and-foremost, as that is what I am MOST passionate about: Sharing about good music and exciting audio gear. 
   
  There seemed to be some concern on their part, that because I was recently let go I was poking at the DACport here.  This is NOT the case, and my original post
  shows that plainly.  The reason I went to work for CEntrance in the first place is because I love their products (and had written favorable reviews of their
  stuff).  They make solid products for sure - IMO.  I still believe that - everything else is irrelevant.
   
  However, while I just gave my DACport to my cousin (as he needed a small, good-quality DAC/head-amp) I did have it when I got my Dragonfly.  My feelings
  on the sound/performance of the Dragonfly have not swayed the more I listen.  I was so engrossed in the music last night, using the Dragonfly, Amarra Hifi,
  and my Audeze LCD3's - that I completely forgot where I was for awhile.  It was just me and the sweet sounds of Radiohead! 
   
  I feel the same way about my Wadia 151PowerDACmini over the CEntrance DACmini PX.  I think the Wadia marries beautifully w/ my CEntrance 2504 
  desktop speakers, more-so than the PX (and I stated that to the CEntrance team months ago)!  I don't want anyone to think I have some sort of vendetta,
  an anti-CEntrance attitude.  On the contrary, I think they're a great company, a tight team, and they make fantastic products.
   
  I just feel this time something has come along that out-shines the DACport in its catagory, in my opinion.  It's all subjective.
  Knowing CEntrance, I'm sure they'll come up with something that sounds even better in the future.
   
  Just needed to get that out - whew...


----------



## Curly21029

I finally found the time to do some comparative listening between the DragonFly and Nuforce Icon HD tonight.  A few notes:
   
  -My main point of concern with the DF was its ability to project a sizable soundstage.  Comparatively to the Nuforce, I'm happy to report that it earns a passing grade.  The Icon can sound ever so slightly wider at times, but this is only noticeable in direct A-B testing.  However, the DF does exhibit a greater sense of vertical space to my ears.
   
  -The Nuforce sounds notably smoother and less dynamic than the DF.  Individual notes don't necessarily sound weightier on the Icon, but instead thicker/wider/blunted.
   
  -As implied above, tonal weight is a dead heat.  I also don't perceive either as being noticeably warmer/brighter than the other.  Both have (maybe) just a hint of pleasant, unobtrusive warmth.
   
  -Due to the previously described smoothness of the Nuforce, the DF sounds greater detailed with a better sense of clarity and separation.  Imaging/instrument placement seems more precise as well.
   
  -The Nuforce has greater bass quantity.  It's tough to definitively tell, but the DF may have slightly faster decay. (although, the tipped-up Icon is done very well)
   
  -Although I don't currently have any high-impedance cans on hand, it's fairly apparent that the driving authority edge goes to the Nuforce.  All things equal, it leaves plenty of room to crank up the volume.  The DF is surprisingly good in this regard as well, (I'm at between 20 and 24 clicks out of 64, give or take, depending on the content) but with its external power supply the Icon's superiority is to be expected.
   
  Overall, it comes down to needs and personal preference.  It's certainly impressive that the DF has been engineered well enough to keep pace with the admirably performing Icon HD(P) given the form factor and lack of the need for a separate power source.  The Nuforce would be my recommendation for those looking to drive power-hungry cans, those looking for some extra bottom-end presence, or who prefer a smoother "hi-fi" sound, but to my ears there's an overall greater sense of coherency with the DF due to its better perceived clarity, imaging, and depth of soundstage.  Headphone synergy, as always, would be a factor and _YMMV_.  For my current SQ needs and admiration for its overall convenience, the DF gets the nod.
   
  Hours accrued: I'm unsure if any "burn in" has occurred or if it will yield a noticeable difference.  I have yet to unplug the DF from my MacBook Pro since purchase and it has been constantly receiving power. (light turns red when the computer is asleep)  Therefore, it's been ran in for about 72 hours so far.


----------



## William007

Ridiculous question: will this be able to drive ortho's?


----------



## eyal1983

Hifiman HE-400 are orthos... so YES.


----------



## William007

Haha  and something like my ortho? It's 150 ohm and needs 25 watt if this can drive this, i'll be buying one right now


----------



## longbowbbs

I was enjoying the DF yesterday in the hotel room with the MBPro and the Senn HD25-1's. At about 40% of the max volume the sound was almost uncomfortablely loud. I know the Senn's are not Orthos but I certainly had plenty of volume left to play with.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





william007 said:


> Haha
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well, it's rated at 125mW @ 32 ohms.  So sure, why not


----------



## William007

Damn now i have to buy one to try  i hope it's worth the money! I'll have a decent gaming amp then


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I was enjoying the DF yesterday in the hotel room with the MBPro and the Senn HD25-1's. At about 40% of the max volume the sound was almost uncomfortablely loud. I know the Senn's are not Orthos but I certainly had plenty of volume left to play with.


 
   
  I'm about 60-70% volume with my Thunderpants.  While they sound pretty good, to my ears they're a bit underdriven compared to hooking the DF -> O2, a bit lean/lacking dynamics.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> I'm about 60-70% volume with my Thunderpants.  While they sound pretty good, to my ears they're a bit underdriven compared to hooking the DF -> O2, a bit lean/lacking dynamics.


 
  I have never tried an 02, but that sounds like what it us made for. A bit more oooomph for the signal.


----------



## crzycuyler

I don't know much about headphone amplifiers. What should I be concerned about with the DF? Is it impedance that I should be matching? If so, how high of an impedance can this power before needing a more powerful amp? I am considering the DF and Beyerdynamic DT990 Premium 32 ohm headphones.


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> I'm about 60-70% volume with my Thunderpants.  While they sound pretty good, to my ears they're a bit underdriven compared to hooking the DF -> O2, a bit lean/lacking dynamics.


 

 I've also become a big fan of DF -> JDS O2 -> Senn HD600


----------



## GrumbleFish

Glad to have joined the Dragonfly club here. Just got mine in the mail today. I must say that I do love the sound from first impression. Been driving my new GR-07's from my MPB. Really sounds excellent.
   
  Odd question though. The only thing in the DF box was a quick start guide and the warranty card, aside from the unit itself and it's bag. Is there no substantial manual? The quick start guide is only like 4 pages long. Am I missing the actual manual? I checked the box a few times. Nothing else in there.
   
  If it makes a difference, I ordered from HiDef Lifestyle on Amazon.
   
  Thanks. Can't wait to try this with my HE400s and SR325s.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





grumblefish said:


> Glad to have joined the Dragonfly club here. Just got mine in the mail today. I must say that I do love the sound from first impression. Been driving my new GR-07's from my MPB. Really sounds excellent.
> 
> Odd question though. The only thing in the DF box was a quick start guide and the warranty card, aside from the unit itself and it's bag. Is there no substantial manual? The quick start guide is only like 4 pages long. Am I missing the actual manual? I checked the box a few times. Nothing else in there.


 
   
  That sounds like the entire package.  I've gotten two of these guys now (first from HiDef as well) and that's how they came.
   
  I do find the DF -> GR07 to be spectacular as well.


----------



## GrumbleFish

It's odd actually, going from DF -> GR07 to DF -> HE400, my HE400s almost feel bass light. That's not feeling I've had before.
   
  I will say that it's odd to use the on-board volume control buttons on my mac again.


----------



## barbes

grumblefish said:


> Glad to have joined the Dragonfly club here. Just got mine in the mail today. I must say that I do love the sound from first impression. Been driving my new GR-07's from my MPB. Really sounds excellent.
> 
> Odd question though. The only thing in the DF box was a quick start guide and the warranty card, aside from the unit itself and it's bag. Is there no substantial manual? The quick start guide is only like 4 pages long. Am I missing the actual manual? I checked the box a few times. Nothing else in there.
> 
> ...




Full(er) manual at:

http://www.audioquest.com/pdfs/dragonfly/DragonFly-Setup-Guide-EN-V2-220dpi.pdf

Other languages at home page. 

I'm VERY impressed with mine.


----------



## DannyBai

I've had mine for a few days now and mainly use it with the O2.  I've tried the HE-400 and HE-500 with it and do not care for the signature.  I tried the HE-500 connected to the DF alone and was surprised that it drove it decent and actually sounded better than with O2 for my tastes.  But the DF seems like a winner overall.  My music collection sounds clearer and I hear the details much more than before when using the Fiio E10 and E9.  The DF + O2 sounds absolutely stunning using the FA-011.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





grumblefish said:


> Glad to have joined the Dragonfly club here. Just got mine in the mail today. I must say that I do love the sound from first impression. Been driving my new GR-07's from my MPB. Really sounds excellent.
> 
> Odd question though. The only thing in the DF box was a quick start guide and the warranty card, aside from the unit itself and it's bag. Is there no substantial manual? The quick start guide is only like 4 pages long. Am I missing the actual manual? I checked the box a few times. Nothing else in there.
> 
> ...


 
  There is a little more on the web site. It is a fairly straight forward unit.


----------



## Coolsax

You should be fine with the 32 ohm 990s I would think.


----------



## GrumbleFish

Has anyone tried feeding the DF to a Lyr? I've been wanting to get a Lyr for a long time, but I didn't have a dac that would do it any justice. Before the dragonfly I had been using an E7/E9 as my home setup. The dac on the E7 was nothing special.
   
  I was hoping that the Lyr would sound nice with the DF dac since it would be hard for me to spend the 350 on a Bifrost after having spent 450 on a Lyr.
   
  I might try asking in the Lyr thread if there is a universal "Lyr appreciation thread".


----------



## MickeyVee

Saw your post and thought I'd give it a try.. Yes, the Dragonfly will work nicely as a DAC for the Lyr (using stock GE tubes). It actually sounds OK. Smooth and a little on the dark side - the treble seems a little rolled off  and soundstage is constricted - never noticed this using the DF straight into my HD700 (this is all relative to using an Audioengine D1 as my current DAC). Using a NuForce 1/8 to RCA cable to connect them. Remember to max out the volume on the DF from your system to use it in pre-amp mode.
   
  Funny, the D1 is better as a DAC feeding the Lyr but the DF is better as a standalone dac/amp feeding my headphones directly. Go figure.
   
  My Bifrost should be here in a few days so I can let you know the difference in a week or so once I've given it some time to break in but my suspicion is that the Bifrost will definitely bring out the potential of the Lyr and just smoke the DF.


----------



## GrumbleFish

mickeyvee said:


> Saw your post and thought I'd give it a try.. Yes, the Dragonfly will work nicely as a DAC for the Lyr (using stock GE tubes). It actually sounds OK. Smooth and a little on the dark side - the treble seems a little rolled off  and soundstage is constricted - never noticed this using the DF straight into my HD700 (this is all relative to using an Audioengine D1 as my current DAC). Using a NuForce 1/8 to RCA cable to connect them. Remember to max out the volume on the DF from your system to use it in pre-amp mode.
> 
> Funny, the D1 is better as a DAC feeding the Lyr but the DF is better as a standalone dac/amp feeding my headphones directly. Go figure.
> 
> My Bifrost should be here in a few days so I can let you know the difference in a week or so once I've given it some time to break in but my suspicion is that the Bifrost will definitely bring out the potential of the Lyr and just smoke the DF.




That wouldbe excellent that's pretty much exactly what I was looking for. I also think its pretty odd that the d1 sounded better. I'm wondering if I should just wait to get the lyr until I can get a desktop dac. However, if the DF does work almost as well as the bifrost, or other desktop dac's, then I might just use it as my all the time dac 

Decisions, decisions. 

Thanks for the feedback though.


----------



## crzycuyler

I just ordered the Dragonfly because I got a KILLER deal, but I don't even have any headphones at the moment. Any recommendations for some cans that have great synergy with the DF?


----------



## Coolsax

i think a lot have enjoyed how they sound with Sennheiser HD600 and 650s


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





crzycuyler said:


> I just ordered the Dragonfly because I got a KILLER deal, but I don't even have any headphones at the moment. Any recommendations for some cans that have great synergy with the DF?


 
   
  For my use this is pretty much for really portable stuff, and to that end its performance with the GR07 and JVC S500 (incredible cans for the price) really sell it for me.


----------



## GrumbleFish

bobeau said:


> For my use this is pretty much for really portable stuff, and to that end its performance with the GR07 and JVC S500 (incredible cans for the price) really sell it for me.




I can second the use of this with the GR07. Great pairing. Immensely better sound than headphone out of my MBP. Far better sound than I was expecting. I wasn't super enthused with my new GR07s until my DF came in.


----------



## MickeyVee

Get the Lyr. It won't disappoint - if you have the DF, just hook it up and enjoy and add the Bifrost when you can.
  My Bifrost just landed and it's been on only for a couple of hours - yes, it will smoke (or at least is better than) the DF but t*he DF and Lyr are quite enjoyable*. Nothing wrong with doing it in steps and enjoying the journey.  That's what it's all about!!  Depending on what mood I'm in, I could live with the DF only (on second thought, nah, but it is that good)
  What headphones are you using?
  Quote: 





grumblefish said:


> That wouldbe excellent that's pretty much exactly what I was looking for. I also think its pretty odd that the d1 sounded better. I'm wondering if I should just wait to get the lyr until I can get a desktop dac. However, if the DF does work almost as well as the bifrost, or other desktop dac's, then I might just use it as my all the time dac
> Decisions, decisions.
> Thanks for the feedback though.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





crzycuyler said:


> I just ordered the Dragonfly because I got a KILLER deal, but I don't even have any headphones at the moment. Any recommendations for some cans that have great synergy with the DF?


 
  Both my Sennheiser HD650's and HD25-1 ii's are terrific with it.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





crzycuyler said:


> I just ordered the Dragonfly because I got a KILLER deal, but I don't even have any headphones at the moment. Any recommendations for some cans that have great synergy with the DF?


 

 I'm thinking you should try the HD650's with the DF.
   
  Then you might wanna try the HD650's.
   
  Has anyone mentioned how great the DF sounds with the HD650's?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> I'm thinking you should try the HD650's with the DF.
> 
> Then you might wanna try the HD650's.
> 
> Has anyone mentioned how great the DF sounds with the HD650's?


 
  I have heard this....Somewhere....


----------



## Curly21029

I'm finding the HD650 touting interesting.  Unfortunately, I have no way to accommodate open-backs at the moment so a purchase is impracticable, but...
   
  ...this site.  It's perilous, I tells ya'.  I've always preferred the HD600 over the 650, but could that thick bass->lower-mid region be reigned in by the DF...?


----------



## DannyBai

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> For my use this is pretty much for really portable stuff, and to that end its performance with the GR07 and JVC S500 (incredible cans for the price) really sell it for me.


 
  I disconnected the O2 and have been listening to the S500 paired with the DF and I can't believe how incredible it sounds.  Love both these gems.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I have heard this....Somewhere....


----------



## crzycuyler

The DF really backs enough juice to power the HD650s? I'm surprised.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





crzycuyler said:


> The DF really backs enough juice to power the HD650s? I'm surprised.


 

 Easily powers the 650's.
   
  Yeah, I was surprised too.


----------



## nc8000

It might drive them loud enough but the quality surely must be lacking. My DF drives my HE-500 loud enough but certainly not with the authaurity and ease that my 2 balanced amps can muster


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





nc8000 said:


> It might drive them loud enough but the quality surely must be lacking. My DF drives my HE-500 loud enough but certainly not with the authaurity and ease that my 2 balanced amps can muster


 
   
  I found going DF-> O2 -> HD600   (over DF -> HD600)  smoothed out the bass just a TINY little bit, and prefer to listen through the O2, but going directly into the HD600 is NOT a problem.  THere's plenty of bass with this combo ---- when I switch off to DF-> HD25-1 ii , there's almost too much (notice I said almost)


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





nc8000 said:


> It might drive them loud enough but the quality surely must be lacking. My DF drives my HE-500 loud enough but certainly not with the authaurity and ease that my 2 balanced amps can muster


 
  The quality is there with the HD650's I can't say with the HE-500's. I would love to hear them one day.


----------



## crzycuyler

I know this may not be the thread, but because so many people are using the HD650 here I've got to ask. How do the HD650 perform when gaming? I'll be using the DF + some headphone for music, movies, and games (non competitive) with equal priority.


----------



## Chefano

Hello DF owners, help me pls

Today I noticed that my DF is ratling.
When I hold it by its case, I can move (just a little) the usb connector, I think the hole board is loose from the case. Can you tell if this also happens to you?
Thanks,
Best regards


----------



## longbowbbs

crzycuyler said:


> I know this may not be the thread, but because so many people are using the HD650 here I've got to ask. How do the HD650 perform when gaming? I'll be using the DF + some headphone for music, movies, and games (non competitive) with equal priority.




The 650's are going to give you back the quality of input you give them. So....


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





chefano said:


> Hello DF owners, help me pls
> Today I noticed that my DF is ratling.
> When I hold it by its case, I can move (just a little) the usb connector, I think the hole board is loose from the case. Can you tell if this also happens to you?
> Thanks,
> Best regards


 
   
  I was going to hold off on saying something, but mine started doing this last week.  It actually does it slightly from the headphone connector as well.
   
  I tend to insert/remove from my MBA at least a couple times a day, so that means it's been inserted/removed in the 50-100 time range.  Probably plugged/unplugged phones a few hundred times.  Not good.  Functionally it's fine, but I'm a bit perturbed as I bought this one used so I don't have a warranty to fall back on.  And the build quality otherwise appears fantastic, but I don't recall for instance ever having other USB devices do this before, and I baby this guy.


----------



## DannyBai

A flaw I find with the DF.  Using Mac, I have the volume at max in sound preferences ( I believe this is recommended for best performance) and adjust the volume with iTunes.  With this setting, it seems I cannot use sensitive iem's/actually many iem's I've tried because at the lowest volume setting, it's borderline too loud.  To fix this, I adjust the main volume control and as I release the mouse click, the sound the Mac makes when adjusting volume about rips my eardrums.  Not sure if anyone knows what I'm talking about but has anyone tried iem's with this?  I cannot use my Miracles at all because it's too loud.  Correct me if I'm doing something wrong.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





dannybai said:


> A flaw I find with the DF.  Using Mac, I have the volume at max in sound preferences ( I believe this is recommended for best performance) and adjust the volume with iTunes.  With this setting, it seems I cannot use sensitive iem's/actually many iem's I've tried because at the lowest volume setting, it's borderline too loud.  To fix this, I adjust the main volume control and as I release the mouse click, the sound the Mac makes when adjusting volume about rips my eardrums.  Not sure if anyone knows what I'm talking about but has anyone tried iem's with this?  I cannot use my Miracles at all because it's too loud.  Correct me if I'm doing something wrong.


 
  I do not max the volume that way. I simply plug in to the MBPro and use the volume buttons at the top of the keyboard. iTunes and Amarra are maxed, but the system voiume is the up/down control. Works great and sounds great!


----------



## DannyBai

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I do not max the volume that way. I simply plug in to the MBPro and use the volume buttons at the top of the keyboard. iTunes and Amarra are maxed, but the system voiume is the up/down control. Works great and sounds great!


 
  Thanks for that.  Not sure what the hell was going through my mind as I was playing around with it.  So easy but I had to make it sooo difficult.  Duh!!!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





dannybai said:


> Thanks for that.  Not sure what the hell was going through my mind as I was playing around with it.  So easy but I had to make it sooo difficult.  Duh!!!


 
  Hey, 3 different volumes to play with...Sometimes it gets off kilter....No Worries!


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





dannybai said:


> Thanks for that.  Not sure what the hell was going through my mind as I was playing around with it.  So easy but I had to make it sooo difficult.  Duh!!!


 
   
  An easy way to think about it is the DF overrides your OS system volume to control its internal opamp... think of it like your master volume.  Anything else that has its own volume control rides on top of this and will still control in the digital domain.


----------



## MickeyVee

Yes, the Mac is weird that way.  When I use the remote with an external IR receiver, the volume control on the remote manages the iTunes volume so I have the system volume on max and then manage the volume with iTunes.
  Without the IR receiver/remote, volume in iTunes is at max and I manage the master volume on the keyboard.


----------



## DannyBai

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> An easy way to think about it is the DF overrides your OS system volume to control its internal opamp... think of it like your master volume.  Anything else that has its own volume control rides on top of this and will still control in the digital domain.


 
   
  Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Yes, the Mac is weird that way.  When I use the remote with an external IR receiver, the volume control on the remote manages the iTunes volume so I have the system volume on max and then manage the volume with iTunes.
> Without the IR receiver/remote, volume in iTunes is at max and I manage the master volume on the keyboard.


 
  Good points guys, all of which I should have known.  Thanks for the explanation.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





dannybai said:


> A flaw I find with the DF.  Using Mac, I have the volume at max in sound preferences ( I believe this is recommended for best performance) and adjust the volume with iTunes.  With this setting, it seems I cannot use sensitive iem's/actually many iem's I've tried because at the lowest volume setting, it's borderline too loud.  To fix this, I adjust the main volume control and as I release the mouse click, the sound the Mac makes when adjusting volume about rips my eardrums.  Not sure if anyone knows what I'm talking about but has anyone tried iem's with this?  I cannot use my Miracles at all because it's too loud.  Correct me if I'm doing something wrong.


 
   
  Go to the sound control panel, and click on the sound effects tab, then de-select the "Play feedback when volume is changed" button.  You can also re-direct the sound effects out via a different device than the one you are listening through.


----------



## DannyBai

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Go to the sound control panel, and click on the sound effects tab, then de-select the "Play feedback when volume is changed" button.  You can also re-direct the sound effects out via a different device than the one you are listening through.


 
  This is perfect.  Thanks for the tip.


----------



## BobJS

What's a Mac?  What is this iTunes?
   
  Just being facetious.... as an old true blue PC/Windows - never use Apple - guy, I was actually considering getting a Mac laptop (only other apple product I've owned is an iPod Touch --- which is pretty decent actually) since it seems to be the computer of choice for artists and musicians. 
   
  Somebody..... talk me out of it........


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> What's a Mac?  What is this iTunes?
> 
> Just being facetious.... as an old true blue PC/Windows - never use Apple - guy, I was actually considering getting a Mac laptop (only other apple product I've owned is an iPod Touch --- which is pretty decent actually) since it seems to be the computer of choice for artists and musicians.
> 
> Somebody..... talk me out of it........


 
   
  Accepting the screen limitations, a MacBook Air is very usable as a main machine, especially with 8GB of RAM. I'm not at all surprised that Jude uses one with the Dragonfly for travel -- I could just about do that too.


----------



## Todd R

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> What's a Mac?  What is this iTunes?
> 
> Just being facetious.... as an old true blue PC/Windows - never use Apple - guy, I was actually considering getting a Mac laptop (only other apple product I've owned is an iPod Touch --- which is pretty decent actually) since it seems to be the computer of choice for artists and musicians.
> 
> Somebody..... talk me out of it........


 
   






 I got an older MacBook Pro for sale, you want it?


----------



## MickeyVee

I grew up on DOS and most versions of Windows and do like 7.  But when I went Mac at home, I never looked back. So, no, not going to talk you out of it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Love Win 7 at work for business stuff but at home, for photogaphy and music playback, personally, my Mac's are the tool of choice. Anyway, gotta just love the MacBook Air. YMMV.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





bobjs said:


> What's a Mac?  What is this iTunes?
> 
> Just being facetious.... as an old true blue PC/Windows - never use Apple - guy, I was actually considering getting a Mac laptop (only other apple product I've owned is an iPod Touch --- which is pretty decent actually) since it seems to be the computer of choice for artists and musicians.
> 
> Somebody..... talk me out of it........


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





todd r said:


> I got an older MacBook Pro for sale, you want it?


 

 Thanks for the offer, but if I'm going to defect, I'm going to go state-of-the-art......


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> What's a Mac?  What is this iTunes?
> 
> Just being facetious.... as an old true blue PC/Windows - never use Apple - guy, I was actually considering getting a Mac laptop (only other apple product I've owned is an iPod Touch --- which is pretty decent actually) since it seems to be the computer of choice for artists and musicians.
> 
> Somebody..... talk me out of it........


 
  Come over to the dark side.....They are great computers.


----------



## king.mark

Can anyone compare the Dragonfly to a AMB y1 dac (USB only) ?
   
  Right now my secondary setup is a M3 with Sigma 11 and a y1 dac.
  From testing with my primary dac I found that the y1 is hold back the true potential of the amp.
  The Dragonfly would be a nice dac+amp when I travel but I hope it might also be a good upgrade for the y1 at home.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





king.mark said:


> Can anyone compare the Dragonfly to a AMB y1 dac (USB only) ?
> 
> Right now my secondary setup is a M3 with Sigma 11 and a y1 dac.
> From testing with my primary dac I found that the y1 is hold back the true potential of the amp.
> The Dragonfly would be a nice dac+amp when I travel but I hope it might also be a good upgrade for the y1 at home.


 
   

   
  King.mark, this is my secondary setup. HP with FLAC/WAV to DF to HD650's and Toxic Cables. About as simple a setup as you can get. I do have a new amp ordered that I can output from the DF to the amp then to the Senn's but this is a great and very high quality sounding setup. I have never heard the y1 and it looks like a fun project, however the DF is a pretty sophisticated unit. 4 layer circuit board and Gordon's algorithm's all in one tiny device.
   
  Good luck in your search!


----------



## satanigatan

I just received my Dragonfly today! Works great. 
   
  I actually plan on using this while at school on my Macbook Pro. So I know the interface is different. But I'm testing it out on my Windows 7 PC now, and I'm not 100% sure if I'm doing it right. For controlling the volume, do I use my sound control panel to do the volume?

 I set it up so I have the Dragonfly as the default, even disabled my regular speakers. I followed the instructions, so I know it works (that and, I actually get sound from it lol). Maybe my hearing is just bad, but I have my iTunes volume on full blast + the system volume on full blast, and it's pretty loud - but not just a smidge lower then I want. That said, I'm also using the HD-650's. So maybe that's why.
   
  Thought I would just post on here, to make sure that didn't seem wrong.


----------



## longbowbbs

My HP Elite has it configured as the default sound option. Generally, I have the system sound level set to between 40-50% (Checking the speaker in the lower right tool bar. I tend to adjust the volume via the Logitech keyboard volume control. No other settings for me. Pretty straight forward.
   
  Congrats!


----------



## satanigatan

Yeah it's just my HD-650's needing so much power. I just tried out my Grado SR-80's with the DragonFly, and 50% is enough to be extremely loud. 
   
  I just ordered some HE-400's, and those are supposedly easier to drive than the 650's. So the combo should be just right for me. 
   
  Although I will say, even maxed out for my 650's, it sounds more than fine.  This device is amazing!


----------



## longbowbbs

You are maxing the DF with 650's?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I would have no ears left....


----------



## satanigatan

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> You are maxing the DF with 650's?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Maybe my ears are THAT bad.
   
  =/
   
  Or maybe my settings aren't right. For me, maxing out the 650 on DF is about loud level. Whereas 50% system volume is REALLY loud.


----------



## xxhaxx

I am at like 40% with the T50rp and 10% for the Vmoda m80...   I can have my own personal speakers if I max the volume gauge


----------



## longbowbbs

I do that sometimes when I have work to do and background sound is better than direct.


----------



## OldSkool

I'm at 16% with my Senn IE7s.
   
  After maxing out the itunes slider, just use your system volume to adjust the sound. It's F8 and F9 on my Dell keyboard.
   
  Only time you max out both itunes and system volume is when you are using the DF as a DAC feeding another amp. In that case, use the external amp to control the volume.


----------



## satanigatan

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> I'm at 16% with my Senn IE7s.
> 
> After maxing out the itunes slider, just use your system volume to adjust the sound. It's F8 and F9 on my Dell keyboard.
> 
> Only time you max out both itunes and system volume is when you are using the DF as a DAC feeding another amp. In that case, use the external amp to control the volume.


 
   
   
  Thanks.
   
  I'm thinking my hearing is just not as good as others. Because I'm having to max out both for the 650. And according to others, that would be insanely loud. I'm currently running the DragonFly directly, and not feeding into another amp. However, I'll actually be doing this with my setup next week. So thanks for that tip.


----------



## HadenVR

sorry to be a noob but, would someone say this is the best usb-dac and is very portable which sounds great?
  any other usb-dac which is portable/better than laptop input sound and cheaper than the price of the dragonfly.(broke atm)
  otherwise i am willing to buy this next year T_T..(currently overseas)


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





hadenvr said:


> sorry to be a noob but, would someone say this is the best usb-dac and is very portable which sounds great?
> any other usb-dac which is portable/better than laptop input sound and cheaper than the price of the dragonfly.(broke atm)
> otherwise i am willing to buy this next year T_T..(currently overseas)


 
  The DF seems to be the best for small size and great sound quality so far.


----------



## HadenVR

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> The DF seems to be the best for small size and great sound quality so far.


 
  what is the full name of that dac?
  is it a usb stick just like the dragonfly or a small enough for using on the laptop?(like on the lap lawl)


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





hadenvr said:


> what is the full name of that dac?
> is it a usb stick just like the dragonfly or a small enough for using on the laptop?(like on the lap lawl)


 
http://www.audioquest.com/usb_digital_analog_converter/dragonfly-dac


----------



## HadenVR

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> http://www.audioquest.com/usb_digital_analog_converter/dragonfly-dac


 
  oh..i didnt read df as an abbreviation LOLOLO. 
  i guess it's time to save up more money ..


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





hadenvr said:


> oh..i didnt read df as an abbreviation LOLOLO.
> i guess it's time to save up more money ..


 
  Head-fi never met an acronym it did not like!


----------



## utdeep

If you are looking for just a USB DAC, I've been trying out the Halide HD compared to the Dragonfly as a DAC only unit.
   
  I repurchased the DragonFly because I hadn't tried it in DAC only mode the first time around and because I might have had a faulty first unit.  Unfortunately, my results weren't any different.  It's an outstanding device, but there are better DACs out there and the amp section is nothing special.
   
  I tried the DragonFly with the SR71A against the Halide HD with the SR71 using JH16 Pros.  The Halide HD was more detailed, cleaner, and had greater instrument separation.
   
  The DragonFly is a great DAC Amp combo for $250 ($200 looks like its used value).  However,  I think buying a used predator or using a Halide HD with a separate amp would be a good step up in sound.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





utdeep said:


> If you are looking for just a USB DAC, I've been trying out the Halide HD compared to the Dragonfly as a DAC only unit.
> 
> I repurchased the DragonFly because I hadn't tried it in DAC only mode the first time around and because I might have had a faulty first unit.  Unfortunately, my results weren't any different.  It's an outstanding device, but there are better DACs out there and the amp section is nothing special.
> 
> ...


 
  It all comes down to "How" portable you want to be. The DF with any dedicated portable amp is going to have better punch, but then you have to carry another device with you. It is all about what you are looking for.


----------



## crooner

Just purchased a DragonFly to be used with my HP Envy 14. Software is Foobar2000 with the WASAPI event mode playing up to 96 kHz/24 bit FLAC files. Cans are Sennheiser HD600's.
   
  Sound quality is excellent. Seems to drive the HD600's to decent levels with  no problems. Very happy with my purchase.


----------



## satanigatan

I figured out why I had to blast both my volumes for the 650. I had Bass Boost on, and it made the rest of the music quieter. When I took it off, full volume was way too loud. Now I get what I think is really loud at 60% ish.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





satanigatan said:


> I figured out why I had to blast both my volumes for the 650. I had Bass Boost on, and it made the rest of the music quieter. When I took it off, full volume was way too loud. Now I get what I think is really loud at 60% ish.


----------



## crooner

I did notice the DF never blasts the HD600, which is actually a good thing. Did not hear any clipping distortion even at top volume.


----------



## Dasinf

Would anyone know if/where in Berlin I could possibly try the Dragonfly out before doing a blind purchase? I recently purchased the UE-700 for family usage and they hit my MBPs noise floor quite badly. I also pre-ordered the mythical M-100s and was wondering if this would be a good fit also.
   
  Also my day job is a mobile game developer and I'd love to have a proper DAC every now and then to review our results even tho I know our audience doesn't give a damn with their default Apple earbuds


----------



## graham508

I've had DragonFly for 2 weeks and agree with the general enthusiasm for this tiny, capable product. It sounds just great with Amarra. 
   
  The only problem in the last couple of days is no sound! The settings in my MacBook Pro's Audio MIDI setup seem to have gone all skew-wiff. I follow the DF's Quick Start Guide on how to route sound output through the DF, but now there's nothing - I can't even get sound coming out of MBP internal speakers. Going to System Preferences, Sound, and selecting DF as the sound output keeps making the settings in Audio MIDI setup grey out. Is anyone else finding this? Am I doing something completely dumb?


----------



## longbowbbs

Are you getting sound without the DF through the speakers?


----------



## zilch0md

Todd,
   
  I think your explanation is great, but I'd like to nit-pick your use of the word resolution vs. dynamic range.  I might be wrong about this, so please feel free to set me straight if the corrections I've made in your quote, below, are themselves incorrect. 
   




   
  Thanks,
   
  Mike
   
  Quote: 





todd r said:


> It still works, but to get the best sound you need to have the volume controls maxed. Digital volume controls reduce volume by throwing away bits of resolution *dynamic range*, so you keep the iTunes slider at max volume to get the highest resolution *retain the full dynamic range*.
> 
> Analog control should be at it's highest to maximize signal to noise ratio as well as to insure you have enough gain for your amp.


----------



## GrumbleFish

Everybody using the DF with a mac seems to be using amarra. I just want to throw this out there, but I have used both decibel and amarra, and I can't hear any difference between them. Decibel also has automatic sampling rate switching, which is super useful, and hog mode to take exclusive access of dacs/amps. Then you don't hear any systems sounds regardless of your audio output settings.
   
  Decibel is also _a lot_ cheaper than amarra. Just saying. People should try it out.


----------



## GrumbleFish

Oh, and I will also say that I enjoy my HE400s more when fed through MBP -> DF -> E9 -> HE400. The df can drive them fine, but I really think the extra amplification helps the bass and mids. Just sounds more robust that way. That's what I use as my home setup now.
   
  I don't really know what to do with my old E7 now...


----------



## MickeyVee

+1 for Decibel.  If it had playlists, I would drop iTunes in a micro-second.  There is a definite sound improvement with Decibel and I use it for serious listening and import the iTunes playlist I want to listen to at the time.
  Quote: 





grumblefish said:


> Everybody using the DF with a mac seems to be using amarra. I just want to throw this out there, but I have used both decibel and amarra, and I can't hear any difference between them. Decibel also has automatic sampling rate switching, which is super useful, and hog mode to take exclusive access of dacs/amps. Then you don't hear any systems sounds regardless of your audio output settings.
> 
> Decibel is also _a lot_ cheaper than amarra. Just saying. People should try it out.


----------



## MickeyVee

I can't use the DF with my HE400 - bass, for me, is fat and bloated with the DF.  I do like the DF with my Senn HD700 and with the HE400, I prefer the Audioengine D1. YMMV.
  Though not my standard setup, DF > Lyr > HD700 or HE400 is pleasing (depending on the tubes).  
  I'm actually thinking of getting the Schiit Asgard and using the DF as the DAC for the 'lounge chair' setup.
  Quote: 





grumblefish said:


> Oh, and I will also say that I enjoy my HE400s more when fed through MBP -> DF -> E9 -> HE400. The df can drive them fine, but I really think the extra amplification helps the bass and mids. Just sounds more robust that way. That's what I use as my home setup now.
> 
> I don't really know what to do with my old E7 now...


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> I can't use the DF with my HE400 - bass, for me, is fat and bloated with the DF.  I do like the DF with my Senn HD700 and with the HE400, I prefer the Audioengine D1. YMMV.
> Though not my standard setup, DF > Lyr > HD700 or HE400 is pleasing (depending on the tubes).
> I'm actually thinking of getting the Schiit Asgard and using the DF as the DAC for the 'lounge chair' setup.


 
  It works great for that. I use it 3-4 nights a week on the road. A lot more fun that 24/7 political coverage!


----------



## graham508

Problem sorted.
   
  What happens is the slider volume on iTunes (up top, next to transport controls) mysteriously goes to zero volume when I set up DF through Audio MIDI setup and Sound in System Preferences. Why it does this I have no idea. All is fine when you manually restore volume on iTunes.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





graham508 said:


> Problem sorted.
> 
> What happens is the slider volume on iTunes (up top, next to transport controls) mysteriously goes to zero volume when I set up DF through Audio MIDI setup and Sound in System Preferences. Why it does this I have no idea. All is fine when you manually restore volume on iTunes.


 
  So far any issue has been something simple. Great little device!


----------



## GrumbleFish

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> I can't use the DF with my HE400 - bass, for me, is fat and bloated with the DF.  I do like the DF with my Senn HD700 and with the HE400, I prefer the Audioengine D1. YMMV.
> Though not my standard setup, DF > Lyr > HD700 or HE400 is pleasing (depending on the tubes).
> I'm actually thinking of getting the Schiit Asgard and using the DF as the DAC for the 'lounge chair' setup.


 

 I have been curious about the Valhalla with the HE400s, but I think the Lyr might be better in the long run since I would like to get some really nice ortho's one day. I've been eying the LCD2s for close to a year now... Not that I have a thousand dollars to spend. On anything.


----------



## satanigatan

Kind of bummed to hear the HE-400 doesn't sound as good. I guess I'll see for myself once I get my HE-400 in.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





satanigatan said:


> Kind of bummed to hear the HE-400 doesn't sound as good. I guess I'll see for myself once I get my HE-400 in.


 
  Sometimes you have to listen first then read the reviews....
   
  Speaking of, here is another Dragonfly review, thanks to sumflow for finding it!
   
http://www.soundstagehifi.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=447:dragonflys-and-hard-drives-summer-2012-computer-audio-update&catid=62:monthly-column&Itemid=3


----------



## LOVEPIXY

The dragon fly looks so nice.


----------



## satanigatan

Maybe it's just my own imagination...
   
  But I'm back at college, and I tried the DragonFly on my macbook pro, and it sounds a fair amount better on here than it did on my PC back at home. Using my HD-650, and the bass just sounds fuller. Again, might just be my own imagination. Holy crap though, these sound fantastic. I might have had my settings off on my PC, is the only thing I can figure.
   
  Either way, I bought this to power my headphones while at school, since I have a massive amp at home. So I'm a really happy camper. 
   
  EDIT: It's also possible that maybe my Macbook Pro has a better soundcard. My PC was one of those pre-made computers from 3 years ago (and the base parts are usually pretty standard. I later gutted it, and built my own PC around the parts, replacing everything but the soundcard with top of the line parts. I rarely drive my music from my computer, and built my PC for gaming. 
   
  Whereas my Macbook Pro is a year old.


----------



## satanigatan

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Sometimes you have to listen first then read the reviews....
> 
> Speaking of, here is another Dragonfly review, thanks to sumflow for finding it!
> 
> http://www.soundstagehifi.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=447:dragonflys-and-hard-drives-summer-2012-computer-audio-update&catid=62:monthly-column&Itemid=3


 
   
  I shouldn't have made that reply. It's really silly to read one opinion, and make a comment. So I do apologize. And of course, I'll listen for myself once my HE-400's come int and report back with my impressions.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





satanigatan said:


> I shouldn't have made that reply. It's really silly to read one opinion, and make a comment. So I do apologize. And of course, I'll listen for myself once my HE-400's come int and report back with my impressions.


 
  No worries, we all love this stuff and want it to work "RIGHT NOW"..


----------



## MickeyVee

Not saying that they don't sound good.. I't just that coming for the Bifrost/lyr combo to the DF, the bass is a little bloated and it seems a little underpowered for the HE400.  Not a fair comparison given 4x the price for the BF/LYR. Overall, i'm quite pleased with the DF.
  Quote: 





satanigatan said:


> Kind of bummed to hear the HE-400 doesn't sound as good. I guess I'll see for myself once I get my HE-400 in.


----------



## elnero

I would think expecting the DF to drive an ortho would be asking a lot of it.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





elnero said:


> I would think expecting the DF to drive an ortho would be asking a lot of it.


 
  I would love to hear it with one.


----------



## GrumbleFish

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Not saying that they don't sound good.. I't just that coming for the Bifrost/lyr combo to the DF, the bass is a little bloated and it seems a little underpowered for the HE400.  Not a fair comparison given 4x the price for the BF/LYR. Overall, i'm quite pleased with the DF.


 

 Seconded. I didn't mean to say that the HE400s sound bad with the DF at all. I think they sound great. Much better than they do out of a headphone out on a MBP. I was just saying that the extra power from a DF -> Dedicated Amp yields better results. I would never lug around an E9 or a Lyr with me on travel/around campus. But when at my apartment, it does improve the sound quality.


----------



## GrumbleFish

Quote: 





elnero said:


> I would think expecting the DF to drive an ortho would be asking a lot of it.


 

 It really can drive the HE400s fine. Way too loud for anyone to be listening at max volume. But, then again, the HE400 can be driven with more than decent results from my iphone 4 and macbook pro. I would say my SR325is sounds better unamped.
   
  But again, the point is that the DF _can_ drive the HE400s. I doubt it could drive the HE500 or 6 very well at all, and I have no experience with the LCD-2/3 but from what I hear, those really shine when given a lot more power (i.e. Lyr).


----------



## elnero

Quote: 





grumblefish said:


> It really can drive the HE400s fine. Way too loud for anyone to be listening at max volume. But, then again, the HE400 can be driven with more than decent results from my iphone 4 and macbook pro. I would say my SR325is sounds better unamped.
> 
> But again, the point is that the DF _can_ drive the HE400s. I doubt it could drive the HE500 or 6 very well at all, and I have no experience with the LCD-2/3 but from what I hear, those really shine when given a lot more power (i.e. Lyr).


 

 Just because an amp is able to drive a headphone so it's loud it doesn't mean it's driving them well.
   
  I see it as a similar situation as when I had LCD-2's, my old Pico Slim could drive them, they sounded not bad, but switching to a beefier amp really showed just how much the Pico was holding them back. What others have said about the DF driving the HE-400's seems to confirm a similar situation. I'm not trying to diss the Dragonfly, I just bought one which is on it's way to me, but I'm trying to have realistic expectations for what it will be capable of.


----------



## GrumbleFish

Quote: 





elnero said:


> Just because an amp is able to drive a headphone so it's loud it doesn't mean it's driving them well.


 
   
  That was almost the entire point of my post. They sound _good_ driven only by the DF. But a better amp with more power drives them _better_. I know from experience.
   
  That being said. If you do not believe me, that's your choice, and I encourage you to try it yourself. Also, in Jude's review, he specifically mentions that the DF paired with the HE400 sounds good. I'm not sure what satisfaction you are looking for by saying you don't think the DF can drive an ortho well. Try it.


----------



## GrumbleFish

Quote: 





elnero said:


> I see it as a similar situation as when I had LCD-2's, my old Pico Slim could drive them, they sounded not bad, but switching to a beefier amp really showed just how much the Pico was holding them back. What others have said about the DF driving the HE-400's seems to confirm a similar situation. I'm not trying to diss the Dragonfly, I just bought one which is on it's way to me, but I'm trying to have realistic expectations for what it will be capable of.


 
  I'm glad you are trying the dragonfly for yourself. I would like to hear your input on how you think it sounds as a standalone unit. I hope you enjoy it.


----------



## crzycuyler

Can anybody speak as to how the DF compares to AudioEngine's D1?


----------



## elnero

Quote: 





grumblefish said:


> That was almost the entire point of my post. They sound _good_ driven only by the DF.


 
   
  That's not the impression I got, you stated "_It really can drive the HE400s fine. Way too loud for anyone to be listening at max volume._" which suggests to me you're talking about volume not quality, hence the rest of my post.
   
  My post was meant as a reality check, sometimes around here something like, "the DF is able to drive the HE-400's adequately" becomes "the DF will drive orthos". It wasn't meant to disparage the DF in any way. Go back and re-read my original post, I stated something knowing the requirements and demands of most orthos and the limitations of a USB powered DAC/Amp. I even tried to clarify it in my reply to you with my Pico Slim example, I'll do so again, I absolutely adore the Pico Slim, I think it's a brilliant design which did an adequate job driving my LCD-2's but I'd say the exact same thing I did about the DF, expecting it to drive orthos might be asking a bit much of it. The Slim is not the best amp for the job so when listening to an ortho with it one shouldn't expect it to be fully representative of what the ortho sounds like.
   
  Does that make what I was trying to convey any clearer?


----------



## MickeyVee

I own both the DF and D1. They're really two different beasts and for different use cases.. My D1 sits with my main desktop rig and I use it when I don't want to power up the Bifrost/Lyr or want to drive my Boston Acoustics tabletop radio (like out on the D1 to line in on the Boston).
   
  I use the DF with my MacBook Air around the house, mainly with the HD700.
   
  SQ wise, the D1 has a little more power and punch (drives my HE400 better than the DF) and is a little more on the sparkly side (not that the DF is dark or anything).  I think I like the DAC better in the DF but it is a close call. I like the amp better in the D1.
   
  YMMV as they're pretty close and I think it really depends on what headphones you're using.
   
  Quote: 





crzycuyler said:


> Can anybody speak as to how the DF compares to AudioEngine's D1?


----------



## graham508

Caring for one's Dragonfly....
   
  It's so, so small that I invested in a leather pouch to carry it around in - off ebay for the princely sum of $3.95. It's perfect in size and is better than the supplied velvet one. I figure it will prevent me losing that cap. 
   
   
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280939277298


----------



## crzycuyler

Now I really want the HD650, but I live in a rather noisy small apartment. Should I rule these open cans out?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> I own both the DF and D1. They're really two different beasts and for different use cases.. My D1 sits with my main desktop rig and I use it when I don't want to power up the Bifrost/Lyr or want to drive my Boston Acoustics tabletop radio (like out on the D1 to line in on the Boston).
> 
> I use the DF with my MacBook Air around the house, mainly with the HD700.
> 
> ...


 
   
  The AE D1 never fails to surprise me for the price.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





crzycuyler said:


> Now I really want the HD650, but I live in a rather noisy small apartment. Should I rule these open cans out?


 
  Open cans will let in ambient noise. So it depends how noisy.


----------



## Doneko

Quote: 





graham508 said:


> I've had DragonFly for 2 weeks and agree with the general enthusiasm for this tiny, capable product. It sounds just great with Amarra.
> 
> The only problem in the last couple of days is no sound! The settings in my MacBook Pro's Audio MIDI setup seem to have gone all skew-wiff. I follow the DF's Quick Start Guide on how to route sound output through the DF, but now there's nothing - I can't even get sound coming out of MBP internal speakers. Going to System Preferences, Sound, and selecting DF as the sound output keeps making the settings in Audio MIDI setup grey out. Is anyone else finding this? Am I doing something completely dumb?


 
   
  I have a similar issue: sometimes there is no sound through the DF. When this happens, iTunes doesn't respond to the play/stop controls. If I change the output to the laptop speakers, I can play music fine. After logging out and back in to the computer the problem disappears. 
   
  I used to use a Peachtree Decco 2 to drive my HD 600, the DF is a completely different class. Amazing quality, detail, bass, volume.


----------



## roibm

I got mine today, a very refreshing surprise as it comes to the audio quality and engineering marvel necessary to create such a tiny and good sounding device.
  Heck, it can even drive my DT-880 (600 version) better than the AMB mini3. Obviously not at loud levels, but still... I'm amazed.
   
  But... unfortunately there must be a but. The 44.1KHz doesn't seem to work, I tried it on two machines already. I don't know whether the clock is defective or there is something else. The stream seems to be ok because the light turns green, but there are only a couple of pops/clicks coming to be heard with the phones, then silence.
   
  I'm running Windows 7 64-bit on both machines, one is a desktop the other a notebook.
  This is what I do for a test:
  Control Panel -> Sound -> DragonFly device (Speakers) -> Advanced
  I select 24/96 then click on Test, the proper light lights up on the device (lilac), sound ok (di di di left, di di di right)
  I select 24/48 then click on Test, the proper light lights up on the device (blue), all ok (di di di left, di di di right)
  I select 24/44.1 then click on Test, the proper light lights up on the device (green), the sound is only some pops/clicks(all in all about 1.5 seconds, shorter than the test sound). If I click again on Test, no matter how many times, there is nothing but silence.
   
  Tried various other players, including FooBar with WASAPI in 24-bit mode, to the same effect, meaning 44.1 doesn't work 
  WASAPI in 24-bit mode with 24/96 songs also seems to be a problem, there are pops/scratches/static/white noise to be heard every now and then, but the song plays fine otherwise. No problem when played via DirectSound... darn, and how it sounds!!!
   
  Ideas?


----------



## MickeyVee

I don't think this is a DF issue, rather an OSX issue.  Ran into the same problem a couple of nights ago switching between my Bifrost/Lyr and Audioengine D1. It was really weird and no matter what output I selected, with the exception of the built in speakers, iTunes would not play. So I just rebooted. Wonder if it has something to do with OSX 10.8.1
  Quote: 





doneko said:


> I have a similar issue: sometimes there is no sound through the DF. When this happens, iTunes doesn't respond to the play/stop controls. If I change the output to the laptop speakers, I can play music fine. After logging out and back in to the computer the problem disappears.
> 
> I used to use a Peachtree Decco 2 to drive my HD 600, the DF is a completely different class. Amazing quality, detail, bass, volume.


----------



## nc8000

Quote: 





roibm said:


> I got mine today, a very refreshing surprise as it comes to the audio quality and engineering marvel necessary to create such a tiny and good sounding device.
> Heck, it can even drive my DT-880 (600 version) better than the AMB mini3. Obviously not at loud levels, but still... I'm amazed.
> 
> But... unfortunately there must be a but. The 44.1KHz doesn't seem to work, I tried it on two machines already. I don't know whether the clock is defective or there is something else. The stream seems to be ok because the light turns green, but there are only a couple of pops/clicks coming to be heard with the phones, then silence.
> ...


 
   
  When using foobar and wasapi you need to set the buffer size to the absolute minimum or you will get pops and static. This seems to relate to asynchronious devices as the HRT HeadStreamer has the same problem


----------



## roibm

Quote: 





nc8000 said:


> When using foobar and wasapi you need to set the buffer size to the absolute minimum or you will get pops and static. This seems to relate to asynchronious devices as the HRT HeadStreamer has the same problem


 
  Thanks, it works like a charm with thebuffer @ 50ms (WASAPI with 24/96).
   
  The problem with 44.1 is getting worse, it's now a more or less permanent combination of static/white noise/scratches and not a single music note to hear (when playing 16/44.1 tracks via DirectSound or WASAPI (24-bit in this case)).
   
  USB audio driver version: 6.1.7601.17514 (win7sp1_rtm.101119-1850). Installed KB2529073 as well, although it doesn't seem to have changed anything.
  Also disabled all other audio devices (Nvidia, Conexant), nothing helped.


----------



## roibm

There must be some sick problem I can't really understand... in the end I got it working on the charging USB port (the yellow one) on the notebook.
  The really sick thing about this is that DF is not alone on the USB controller anymore, as it was previously on the other port, the integrated webcam is connected to the same controller. And to make the things even worse, the IRQ of the newly used USB Controller is shared with a gazillion other devices (Nvidia Quadro, Ricoh card reader, various PCI/PCI bridges), wherever the controller of the other USB port had a dedicated IRQ, only used by the respective controller.
   
  Anyway, it works and that is darn good, but I'm not completely happy about this solution since the port is on the back side of the notebook and the 9-cell battery doesn't allow DF to sit flush on the notebook (via a 90 degrees USB adapter). I can live with it, but it's not ideal.
   
  Time to enjoy it and forget about the problems, I'm plenty impressed by this tiny marvel... My HD600 never sounded this good on the road. Just amazing.
   
  Edit:
  Disabling the webcam in BIOS results in DragoFly being alone on the USB Controller, which in turn results in the same dysfunctional 44.1 behavior.
   
  Edit2:
  There is definitely something wrong with my DragonFly. When it's playing 44.1 it is extremely sensitive to any touch: the slightest tiniest turn or movement of the headphones audio connector plugged in DF results in a lot of noise/pops/scratches and sometimes, the music stops altogether and I have to restart the song or it won't continue playing. To get an idea how absurd this is, even the movement of the notebook caused by my breathing can trigger the problem. It doesn't happen when fixed on the desk.
  This also never happens when playing 48 or 96, regardless of how much I turn or move the headphone connector. Looks like some DragonFly hardware issue, probably the 44.1 clock


----------



## roibm

I tried connecting the DragonFly through a USB cable to the notebook, then I saw that if I apply pressure (not much, not very little either) on the USB jack from opposite the dragonfly light it works in 44.1 mode as long as the pressure is being applied.
  Then I saw it also works by applying pressure on the 3.5mm audio plug in the same direction.
  When applying pressure in both cases I was careful not to influence (tension, movement) the plug/jack at the other end. The conclusion is obvious.
   

```
light ------[USB Jack]====[[[[[DragonFly]]]]]====[3.5mm audio=]---------------- ^^^^ ^^^^ |||| |||| pressure pressure
```
   
   
   
  Then, just to make sure, I tried it with multiple headphones (various audio plugs), another USB cable, various USB ports on my notebook and desktop.
  44.1 works in all cases when applying pressure.
   
  So there you have it folks, a darn contact problem inside my DragonFly, most likely something used only when running in 44.1 mode, maybe the clock itself?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





roibm said:


> I tried connecting the DragonFly through a USB cable to the notebook, then I saw that if I apply pressure (not much, not very little either) on the USB jack from opposite the dragonfly light it works in 44.1 mode as long as the pressure is being applied.
> Then I saw it also works by applying pressure on the 3.5mm audio plug in the same direction.
> When applying pressure in both cases I was careful not to influence (tension, movement) the plug/jack at the other end. The conclusion is obvious.
> 
> ...


 
  contact Alasdair at AQ Customer Support


----------



## crzycuyler

Forgive me for being ignorant, but I'm not sure what is supposed to be done to get the best audio experience. I use a MacBook Pro. Am I supposed to check each audio file I am playing to see whether the music is 44.100, 48.000, 88.200, 96.000 kHz then go to Audio MIDI Setup and tell the computer to change the output (DAC) to output the respective khz? Should I also match the 16bit integer to the song if it is 16 bit, then change it to 24bit integer for music in my library that is 24 bit? I'm a little lost, and where does 88.200 and 96.000 khz audio come from? I haven't seen any.


----------



## satanigatan

After going back and forth with these I can say that the DragonFly does indeed sound better than anything I own. My only problem (and this is totally a personal thing) - is that I wish the volume could go a little louder. On my HE-400's the bass is punchy, but it's kind of low. 
   
  So I wish there was a way to keep the incredibly clean/pure sound from DragonFly but get some more boost in the bass. It does have bass booster, but that substantially lowers the overall volume (for obvious reasons). I think for most, this won't be an issue because these will be plenty loud. Maybe it's just an Orthodynamics things, where they tend to scale well with the bigger amps, but I feel like my volume knob is stuck at 50% with the HE-400s when I want to go to 70%.
   
  Conversely, the HD-600's and 650s sound a lot better on DragonFly. The bass is much more there, and even at 50-60% volume on my PC it sounds fuller than I would really want. The HE-400 just feels like it needs more juice.

 Of course, this is just 100% my own opinion. I know the HE-400's are said to be easy to drive at 30-ohm. But I really feel like these could benefit from more juice. I just wish there was a way to use my DragonFly as the DAC but use a more powerful amp to power these up. Is there? (I'm ignorant in this regard). And if you can, would someone please recommend and amp, and how I would go about doing this? 

 Currently I'm just plugging the dragonfly directly into my PC or MacbookPro. Again, lovely sound. Just feel my PC/Macbook Pro isn't powering them enough.


----------



## elnero

Quote: 





satanigatan said:


> Of course, this is just 100% my own opinion. I know the HE-400's are said to be easy to drive at 30-ohm. But I really feel like these could benefit from more juice. I just wish there was a way to use my DragonFly as the DAC but use a more powerful amp to power these up. Is there? (I'm ignorant in this regard). And if you can, would someone please recommend and amp, and how I would go about doing this?


 
   
  If you set the volume to 100% the headphone jack acts a line out so you can the connect the Dragonfly to an external amp. At that point which external amp you use would be totally up to you. I found that there's quite a few vintage 70's integrated amps and receivers that have excellent headphone outputs that generally drive most headphones easily, although with more sensitive phones like IEM's the noise floor can sometimes be more apparent and there's less usable volume. The nice thing about the vintage gear is you can pick up good gear for decent prices. My Harman Kardon 730 came cleaned up and tested for around $175 including shipping, the SX-650 was quite a bit cheaper but required a clean up. There's a great thread in the Amplifiers forum with a ton of information if this is something that interests you.


----------



## MickeyVee

I could go on for pages but here's a the short version:
  If you do a Command-I in iTunes, you will see the file details in the summary pane. Look at sample size and sample rate. Unfortunately iTunes does not change the output rate to match the file properties.  It would be a lot of work to change the output manually for songs that are  hi-rez.
  I use a program called Decibel.  You can import songs directly from iTunes and it automatically switches the output to what the input file is.  It's a better sounding player as far as I'm concerned.
   
  If you don't know where 24/96 files come from, you probably don't have any.  A good source for the hi-rez files is HDTracks.  It's worth buying one hi-rez album (24/88 or 24/96), as long as your DAC supports it (just checked the Audio Lab DAC and it does - looks nice) and then doing a comparison.  If you don't hear a difference, don't worry about hi-rez files. If you do, sorry about your wallet.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





crzycuyler said:


> Forgive me for being ignorant, but I'm not sure what is supposed to be done to get the best audio experience. I use a MacBook Pro. Am I supposed to check each audio file I am playing to see whether the music is 44.100, 48.000, 88.200, 96.000 kHz then go to Audio MIDI Setup and tell the computer to change the output (DAC) to output the respective khz? Should I also match the 16bit integer to the song if it is 16 bit, then change it to 24bit integer for music in my library that is 24 bit? I'm a little lost, and where does 88.200 and 96.000 khz audio come from? I haven't seen any.


----------



## crzycuyler

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> I could go on for pages but here's a the short version:
> If you do a Command-I in iTunes, you will see the file details in the summary pane. Look at sample size and sample rate. Unfortunately iTunes does not change the output rate to match the file properties.  It would be a lot of work to change the output manually for songs that are  hi-rez.
> I use a program called Decibel.  You can import songs directly from iTunes and it automatically switches the output to what the input file is.  It's a better sounding player as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> If you don't know where 24/96 files come from, you probably don't have any.  A good source for the hi-rez files is HDTracks.  It's worth buying one hi-rez album (24/88 or 24/96), as long as your DAC supports it (just checked the Audio Lab DAC and it does - looks nice) and then doing a comparison.  If you don't hear a difference, don't worry about hi-rez files. If you do, sorry about your wallet.


 
  I love the iTunes interface... So if I want to use it, I have to switch the sample rate and bit depth myself through Audio MIDI Setup for the DAC per track? I know I don't have any 24/96 files. I have plenty of 24 bit files at 44.1/48 kHz, but nothing higher. I have the DF which supports these files, so I could try it out. Again, to clarify, if I purchased such files, I would have to go into my computer settings to change the sample rate and bit depth in order to hear it properly? iTunes fail...
   
  HD650 question: Does the DF give any extra energy to the HD650 to bring it forward? I hear that the HD650 is pretty laid back, and would use it for music, movies, and gaming. I wouldn't want the sound to be uninvolving.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





crzycuyler said:


> HD650 question: Does the DF give any extra energy to the HD650 to bring it forward? I hear that the HD650 is pretty laid back, and would use it for music, movies, and gaming. I wouldn't want the sound to be uninvolving.


 
   
  The DF and the HD650's are a great match. I do not use mine for gaming, but I love this paring for music. No worries with this combo.


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





crzycuyler said:


> >
> 
> 
> 
> I love the iTunes interface... So if I want to use it, I have to switch the sample rate and bit depth myself through Audio MIDI Setup for the DAC per track? I know I don't have any 24/96 files. I have plenty of 24 bit files at 44.1/48 kHz, but nothing higher. I have the DF which supports these files, so I could try it out. Again, to clarify, if I purchased such files, I would have to go into my computer settings to change the sample rate and bit depth in order to hear it properly? iTunes fail...


 
   
  An idea might be to get Bit Perfect from the App Store. It was written by a member here and switches the sample rate for you automatically.


----------



## crzycuyler

I was recently told that if my iTunes is trying to play 48 kHz while my output is set to 44.1 kHz (and vice versa) that it would not just sound less than it could but that it would sound really unnatural. Because I haven't heard any differences in earlier tests, I am curious if iTunes is changing the output automatically. It doesn't sound bizarre at all. I'll test again later. I've had a lot going on, but is it possible iTunes/the computer knows whats up?


----------



## PolkManiac

It won't sound THAT bad with iTunes not changing the sample rate.

Do yourself a favor though and get bitperfect or amarra hifi


----------



## crzycuyler

Quote: 





polkmaniac said:


> It won't sound THAT bad with iTunes not changing the sample rate.
> Do yourself a favor though and get bitperfect or amarra hifi


 
  Thanks, I'll look into these. I'm seeing that I can only select 2ch 24bit integer with this DAC. I feel like this was not the case the other day. Am I imagining things? On mac OSX does this appear with 4 options on sample rate and only 2ch 24bit integer. My final question is whether listening to a 16 bit track in this mode will be a bad thing, or does 24 bit take care of 16 bit too?


----------



## Currawong

Listening to a 16-bit track in 24-bit mode will just cause Core Audio to pad the signal with 8 extra bits as far as I know.
   
  The wrong sample rate will cause Core Audio to re-sample a file, which isn't good, but probably wont make a significant amount of difference. IMO if you've paid money for high-res tracks, then it is worth the $10 for BitPerfect to switch the sample rate for you.


----------



## mikemercer

Quote: 





crzycuyler said:


> Thanks, I'll look into these. I'm seeing that I can only select 2ch 24bit integer with this DAC. I feel like this was not the case the other day. Am I imagining things? On mac OSX does this appear with 4 options on sample rate and only 2ch 24bit integer. My final question is whether listening to a 16 bit track in this mode will be a bad thing, or does 24 bit take care of 16 bit too?


 
  I second that, on Amarra Hifi! Hell, I have the full suite, and I end up using Hifi more often!! NOT sayin its better...


----------



## eyal1983

mine is for sale, on the forums


----------



## Currawong

Did you know that there is an option in your signature settings to add classifieds you have up? That will mean every time you post people will see you have it for sale.


----------



## eyal1983

yeah i know,
  but in the way i did it, more people actually read the msg. (i know of myself that i don't always watch for signatures...)


----------



## crzycuyler

Quote: 





currawong said:


> Listening to a 16-bit track in 24-bit mode will just cause Core Audio to pad the signal with 8 extra bits as far as I know.


 
  So how does that affect the audio? It sounds like you're saying its has no affect, but I'm not sure. Are any other Mac user's seeing this? When you go into Audio MIDI Setup, can you adjust the bit rate or are you stuck on 2ch-24bit. I just want to make sure its not just my DF, because I've been jumping around a bunch of DACs lately, and I feel like I had the option the other day. I don't want to think I messed it up.


----------



## Currawong

Padding bits shouldn't make any difference. Re-sampling adds distortion.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





eyal1983 said:


> yeah i know,
> but in the way i did it, more people actually read the msg. (i know of myself that i don't always watch for signatures...)


 
   
  You should still put it in your sig anyway.  There's enough activity in this thread that it likely will be glossed over.  Good luck with the sale.  I couldn't let mine go at this point.


----------



## MickeyVee

Just got the new issue of Sterophile and on the cover, 'Enter the Dragonfly'.  Not too shabby to be the cover story!


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Just got the new issue of Sterophile and on the cover, 'Enter the Dragonfly'.  Not too shabby to be the cover story!


 
   
  What's the verdict?


----------



## MickeyVee

Haven't read the whole article yet but they're impressed. I'll update once I read the entire article tonight.
   
*Stereophine Cover Article on Dragonfly:* Without quoting the article too much, here goes:
  - sound was colourful & upfront
  - tonal balance from bass to treble was as good as I've heard in a modern digital source component, being neither dull nor overly crisp and bright
  - spatial performance was good
  - sounds at least as good as my $900 reference converter
  - best of all, the DragonFly is fun
   
  Note that the review did not cover headphones and was attached to a system with a $1395 AudioQuest cable
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The article did mention Decibel (though an older versions).  As I was reading the Stereophile article and writing this, was also listening to my HD700 through the DragonFly (MacBook Air > Decibel > DF > Senn HD700 - though I do gnerally prefer it via iTunes with a little EQ bit I digress) and it just keeps on impressing me. From Deadmaou5, to Enigma, Dead Can Dance, AC/DC, Patricia Barber and more..This is definitely my around the house, lounge about system. I'm really enjoying the setup!
   
  Quote: 





bobeau said:


> What's the verdict?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> You should still put it in your sig anyway.  There's enough activity in this thread that it likely will be glossed over.  Good luck with the sale.  I couldn't let mine go at this point.


 
   
  I knew it!....Congrats...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  BTW, The cover article in the October Stereophile is one the Dragonfly!


----------



## MickeyVee

Yup.. see my post right above yours 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> BTW, The cover article in the October Stereophile is one the Dragonfly!


----------



## crzycuyler

Hey MickeyVee,

 How do you like the Etymotic HF3s? I'm considering a pair.
   
  Thanks


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Yup.. see my post right above yours


 






  Gotta read more carefully! I was too busy rockin' out to the DF!


----------



## MickeyVee

Use them everyday directly out of my iPhone4 while on my train commute.. love them. Never tried them with my DF.
  Quote: 





crzycuyler said:


> Hey MickeyVee,
> 
> How do you like the Etymotic HF3s? I'm considering a pair.
> 
> Thanks


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Use them everyday directly out of my iPhone4 while on my train commute.. love them. Never tried them with my DF.


 
  Same for me. I use the hf3's with the Custom ear molds 4+ hours per day with my iPhone... Awesome phones.


----------



## IanF23

Hi,
  Can anyone tell me if they have listened to their Dragonfly with B&W MM-1's.  I've read all the pages in this thread and cannot see a mention of them.  I'm looking to get the DF but wonder how much better it will make the sound out of the MM-1's as when I work I don't tend to listen via my headphones, (my main system is in the other room Linn DS/LP12 etc and B&W 803's with Stax SR-307's.
   
  Also can anyone recommend what 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable to use, as a connection from the DF to MM-1's and if they really found any sonic difference than a standard cable for a few dollars?
   
  Many thanks,
   
  Ian


----------



## crzycuyler

Has anyone by chance tried the DF with the AKG Q701?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





ianf23 said:


> Hi,
> Can anyone tell me if they have listened to their Dragonfly with B&W MM-1's.  I've read all the pages in this thread and cannot see a mention of them.  I'm looking to get the DF but wonder how much better it will make the sound out of the MM-1's as when I work I don't tend to listen via my headphones, (my main system is in the other room Linn DS/LP12 etc and B&W 803's with Stax SR-307's.
> 
> Also can anyone recommend what 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable to use, as a connection from the DF to MM-1's and if they really found any sonic difference than a standard cable for a few dollars?
> ...


 
  They work great with the MM-1's. I am not using any high end cable, but with a normal one from the DF to the MM-1's it sound really nice.


----------



## IanF23

So a noticeable improvement from just using the MacBook output to the MM-1's?


----------



## longbowbbs

yes...they image better, more volume. Definitely a noticeable improvement. If you are using them as background as opposed to NFM for critical listening, I don't think the difference is massive. When I do critical listening I very much prefer the DF vs not having it.


----------



## IanF23

Thanks appreciate the feedback on the DF & MM-1s.


----------



## mikemercer

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Same for me. I use the hf3's with the Custom ear molds 4+ hours per day with my iPhone... Awesome phones.


 
  I got a pair for review, and my wife and I liked em so much I had to get (buy) another pair for her.
  I think they're fantastic, especially at that price!!!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





mikemercer said:


> I got a pair for review, and my wife and I liked em so much I had to get (buy) another pair for her.
> I think they're fantastic, especially at that price!!!


 
  I had an extra pair, then my son tried them...Now my wife has a pair as well.... I put the custom tips on mine so no one else can wear them...


----------



## CanDude

Will *PC --> DF --> HDP* (amp only) be better than *PC --> Halide Bridge --> HDP* (DAC + amp) that I currently use as my portable setup?
  I guess that DF > uDAC2 as my super portable setup.
  And DA11 beats anything here as my barely portable setup...
  Thinking of getting one (DF) tomorrow...


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





candude said:


> Will *PC --> DF --> HDP* (amp only) be better than *PC --> Halide Bridge --> HDP* (DAC + amp) that I currently use as my portable setup?
> I guess that DF > uDAC2 as my super portable setup.
> And DA11 beats anything here as my barely portable setup...
> Thinking of getting one (DF) tomorrow...


 
   
  The DF replaced the uDAC2 as my portable DAC. I have never heard the Halide Bridge so I can't help you there.


----------



## zilch0md

A friend of mine bought a Dragonfly at Best Buy today, during lunch, played with it on his work
PC this afternoon, then loaned it to me for the weekend! 

Nice guy, huh? 

I will be comparing it to my DACport LX. Here are the two chains: 

WAV -> Foobar2000 -> Dragonfly Line Out -> 16V-powered iBasso PB2 with LME49990s and HA5002 Buffers -> balanced out to Toxic Cables' Silver Poison -> LCD-2 rev.1 

vs. 

WAV -> Foobar2000 -> DACport LX -> 16V-powered iBasso PB2 with LME49990s and HA5002 Buffers -> balanced out to Toxic Cables' Silver Poison -> LCD-2 rev.1

I was told I can get Line Out from the Dragonfly by just maximizing system and Foobar volumes. 

Here goes...

Mike


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> A friend of mine bought a Dragonfly at Best Buy today, during lunch, played with it on his work
> PC this afternoon, then loaned it to me for the weekend!
> Nice guy, huh?
> I will be comparing it to my DACport LX. Here are the two chains:
> ...


----------



## 563

If this has already been answered, please direct me to the link, or post - how would this work with the SR-71A?  I take it that it would make no sense to use the dragonfly together with the UDAC-2, correct?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





563 said:


> If this has already been answered, please direct me to the link, or post - Can the dragonfly be used in conjunction with the UDAC-2, and if so, how would they be hooked up together (is there some kind of adapter for the USB to 3.5mm jack on the dragonfly?  Is that combination recommendable?
> 
> Ditto - can this work with the SR-71A, and if so, how would that be hooked up?  (I don't have either the SR-71A or UDAC-2 in front of me, so I can't recall exactly what jacks would be involved) ..


 
  I don't see the value with the uDAC2. Basically 2 of the same type of device. The DF is superior (I have both) You could use the DF as DAC only with the SR-71A, but I have never tried that combo. It should work, I have never had the opportunity to try them in combination.


----------



## zilch0md

Having borrowed a friend's Dragonfly...
   
   
*Here's a comparison of the AudioQuest Dragonfly vs. the CEntrance DACport LX*
   
   

   
   
  Looking at this picture that includes the AudioQuest Dragonfly, it's hard to believe that not long ago, the CEntrance DACport LX was billed as one of the world's smallest USB DACs.  I included my shortest USB cable in this photo to emphasize that you don't need a USB cable with the Dragonfly.  That's obvious, but worth emphasizing.
   

   
  First, let me say that I had planned on comparing the following two chains:
   
*WAV -> Foobar2000 -> Dragonfly Line Out -> 16V-powered iBasso PB2 with LME49990s and HA5002 Buffers -> balanced out to Toxic Cables' Silver Poison -> LCD-2 rev.1*
   
*  vs.*
   
*WAV -> Foobar2000 -> DACport LX -> 16V-powered iBasso PB2 with LME49990s and HA5002 Buffers -> balanced out to Toxic Cables' Silver Poison -> LCD-2 rev.1*
   
    
  Unlike the Dragonfly, the DACport LX does not have an analog volume control mapped to the PC's system volume, so a fair comparison requires the use of an external headphone amp, while keeping Foobar and system volumes at their maximum settings with both DACs.
   
  Using these chains, after just a few tracks, the two DACs were sounding so similar in sound quality, I wasn't able to discern one from the other except in the mids, where the DACport LX is just a bit fuller and more organic than the Dragonfly.  I could tell, however, that I wouldn't be able to assess any difference in resolution as long as the iBasso PB2 was in the chain - not while it was equipped with LME49990s and HA5002 buffers.  When the PB2 is using an external power supply at the maximum permissible 16-Volts, that particular combination of op-amps drives my LCD-2 (balanced out) with a lot of slam, dynamics and bass control, that just aren't available when the LCD-2 is driven with less power.  But using that particular combination of op-amps comes at the expense of ultra-fine detail.  
   
  To achieve the greatest possible transparency with the iBasso PB2, I have to use OPA1612 (duals) in the voltage gain section and forgo using buffers entirely (replacing them with the dummy buffers that iBasso provides). This brings my iBasso PB2 close to sounding like a Meier Stepdance in terms of detail and transparency, but also in terms of reduced power output.  Using dummy buffers, the loss of current provided by buffers like the HA5002s is dramatic, thus the punch, bass control, and dyamics are reduced when you use dummy buffers with the OPA1612s, but you get spectacular detail.  (Hint: Rolling op-amps in the PB2 taught me how to listen, but I'm still learning...)
   
  With the goal of improving the resolution of everything downstream from the DACs, rather than opening my PB2 to roll op-amps, I just replaced it with my Meier Stepdance, powered at the maximum permissible 15-Volts, using an Energizer XP8000 external power pack - this pushes the Stepdance to amazing performance, and if you look at the datasheet for the Texas Instruments OPA1611s used in the Stepdance, you can see that as the supply voltage increases, the THD + Noise actually decrease - thus making the Stepdance even more transparent than it is on 9V internal battery power.  The datasheets for nearly all op-amps used in audio reveal that they offer less THD+N - a good thing - when the supply voltage is near, but not quite at, their respective absolute maximum permissible supply voltages - at 15V vs. 18V with the OPA1611s, for example.  Moral of the story:  Most portable amps sound way better when operated at the maximum voltage specified by the amp's designer.  Get an external battery pack with voltage regulator or an external, linear regulated power supply.
   
  So, with my most transparent amp in place, I proceeded with the comparison using these two chains:
   
*WAV -> Foobar2000 -> Dragonfly Line Out -> 15V-powered Meier Stepdance -> single-ended out to a pigtail adapter for balanced Toxic Cables' Silver Poison -> LCD-2 rev.1*
   
  vs.
   
*WAV -> Foobar2000 -> DACport LX -> 15V-powered Meier Stepdance -> single-ended out to a pigtail adapter for balanced Toxic Cables' Silver Poison -> LCD-2 rev.1*
   
   
  Ahhh...  Now I was hearing almost all the detail that these two DACs can deliver - and the winner is (for detail):  The CEntrance DACport LX.
   
   

   

   
  Listening to one of my 96/24 tracks,* Tibet*, from I Ching's* Of the Marsh and the Moon*, beginning at about 54 seconds into the song, a vibrating percussion can be heard that sounds like bamboo reeds being plucked.  To my ears, the DACport LX offers more detail than the Dragonfly, but it's a close call.  Using either DAC, I felt like I could almost count the number of reeds that are being struck.  The Dragonfly is noticeably smoother and just a bit darker than the DACport LX, but not so smooth as to destroy texture and clarity.  Remember, I couldn't even hear a difference in detail until I replaced the iBasso PB2 with the Meier Stepdance.  With some comparisons, you find yourself wondering if a perception of greater detail isn't just due to increased brightness, but in this comparison, I'm comfortable saying that although the DACport LX is a little brighter, it's also rendering more detail.  
   
  This difference in detail can be heard with the chains I've described above, but even more so when I plugged my Shure SE530 directly into the  DACs, abandoning the amp and LCD-2, while matching the volume levels to 85.0dB using a white noise file and an SPL meter iPhone app by JL Audio. Neither of these DACs are harsh or grainy, but the smoothness of the Dragonfly is alluring - especially when, in this same track, _Tibet_, the shrill instrument that carries the melody starts to kick in at about the 60-second mark.  The DACport LX just doesn't sound quite as natural as the Dragonfly at handling that extremely shrill voice - in fact, it's on the border of sounding etched with my SE530, but not quite.  All I can say is that for that paricular moment of that particular track (and obviously, with similar moments in other songs), I'd much rather listen to the Dragonfly than to the DACport LX if there's nothing downstream to soften things a bit.  The Dragonfly is more forgiving and relaxed in the highs, for sure.  
   
  Again, I have to emphasize that these distinctions in detail disappear when I use the DACs to drive my iBasso PB2, as currently configured, into LCD-2, instead of the Stepdance into LCD-2.  I want to make that clear so that readers understand you might not hear this difference in resolution if you were using a dark and smooth amp like the wonderfully dynamic but less resolving Schiit Lyr.  For truly transparent chains, or when using efficient IEMs without an amp (as I have with the SE530), the DragonFly wins for smooth detail in the highs, while the DACport provides even more detail, not harsh or fatiguing, but with the risk of sounding analytical and unforgiving if not tempered downstream.  I'm belaboring this point, but you have to remember that it's easy to start with a very crisp source and make it more diffuse downstream, where it's impossible to begin with an overly smooth, diffuse source, and restore detail that it has already withheld.  As a pure DAC, where you intend to use your choice of amps downstream, the DACport LX is superior for the greater detail it offers.  But as a terminal device - an all-in-one solution into which you plug some efficient IEMs or headphones, the Dragonfly is a better choice.
   
  It comes down to personal taste and the rest of your chain, of course.  For use with the Stepdance -> LCD-2, I prefer the brighter, more detailed highs of the DACport LX, but for the directly connected SE530, I prefer the darker, smoother highs of the Dragonfly.  Note that, going on my memory of the JDS Labs Objective DAC (ODAC) and the iBasso DB2, I'm finding the the Dragonfly to be a kindred spirit of the DACport LX and the Objective DAC - it is nowhere near as dark and smooth as the Wolfson-equipped iBasso DB2.
   
  OK, I think I've beaten that horse to death.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  ---
   
  In the mids, still using the SE530 without the Stepdance, I have to say I very much prefer the DACport LX. Vocals like Diana Krall's *Insensitive*, from her 96/24 *From This Moment On*, or Marta Gomez'* Lucia*, from the 96/24 _*HDTracks Ultimate Download Experience*_, are just more natural, more believable - they are simply more appealing with the DACport LX.  This is hugely subjective, of course.  The difference is not dramatic, but it is readily detectable when you can switch back and forth between the two DACs.  I'm not splitting hairs to say that I prefer the mids of the DACport LX.  The best I can do to describe the Dragonfly's female vocals is to say that they sound more mechanical rather than organic.  I'm using that adjective reluctantly, because "mechanical" would be an inappropriate adjective for describing the Dragonfly's mids in relation to all sources, but I feel it is enlightening to say that the Dragonfly's mids are "more mechanical" sounding than the DACport LX mids.  I found the same to be true with male vocals, as in Steely Dan's *My Rival*, from the 96/24 *Gaucho*.  And it's not just the vocals that sound better in the DACport LX mids.  The lead guitar in* My Rival* seems a little thin - it has plenty of texture and detail, but it lacks fullness and body. The Dragonfly's mids are just not as accessible as the DACport LX mids.  I feel like I want to EQ the mids to boost their amplitude, but that's not what's needed - it's more just a difference in naturalness. 
   
  While still focused on Steely Dan, I switched to using the PB2 balanced out to the LCD-2 Rev.2, as I had originally planned, because I love the mids of the LCD-2 and I wanted to drive them with 2500mW (16V PB2, est.) instead of 1000mW (15V Stepdance, est.)  I had earlier determined that the Dragonfly just doesn't have enough power to drive the LCD-2 directly - no slam.  On the PB2, starting out with the Dragonfly, the mids of _*My Rival*_ sounded so much better with the LCD-2 than with the SE530, I was really impressed with the Dragonfly in this chain.  But then I switched to the DACport LX, and just as the mids had sounded better with the DACport LX to SE530, the DACport LX outperformed the Dragonfly with the PB2 -> LCD-2.  I wish I could quantify the distinction,  but the best I can do is to say that it's neither subtle nor a showstopper for the Dragonfly.  The Dragonfly is still very detailed and smooth in the mids, but for my ears, my tastes, I much prefer the more organic, more natural sounding mids of the DACport LX - whether using an amp to fullsize phones, or no amp with directly connected IEMs.
   
  Still, I have to emphasize, the Dragonfly is in the same league as the DACport.  Again, this difference in tone in the mids relative to the DACport LX is not a showstopper, by any means.  
   
  ---
   
  Bass was a different story - I cannot find a single trait in the bass performance with which to distinguish the Dragonfly from the DACport LX. So far as I can tell, they are clones in their handling of bass - taut, controlled, textured, with very fast transients and good extension - they are both very satisfying, especially when I use either of them to with my 2500mW PB2 balanced out to the LCD-2 - amazing bass. Beck's 24/96 tracks, *Paper Tiger* and _*Lonesome Tears*_, in *Sea Change*, have a very entertaining, 3D-like roundness and texture in the bass, with either DAC. Even with the the SE530 directly connected to the Dragonfly, these are very enjoyable tracks for their bass notes, not to mention the Dragonfly's crisp yet smooth handling of the accoustic guitar throughout the entire album.  The 44.1/16 track_* Walking Wheel (live)*_, in Bel Canto's *Retrospect*, also does a great job of showing off the bass of the Dragonfly and DACport LX, mixed with a great female vocal and some very textured, very shrill highs (that again, are handled better by the Dragonfly than by the DACport LX, when using transparent gear downstream or in the absence of an amp.)
   
  ---
   
  So... Looking just at sound quality, I'd have to say the DACport LX wins, for its fuller, more natural sounding mids, especially if you're using an amp or headphones that are either dark or smooth or both - where the slight advantage in detail and brightness offered by the DACport LX would be welcome.  But if you're using a very transparent, highly resolving amp and headphone combination and/or a headphone and amp combination that are a little brighter and analytical than you would otherwise prefer, I'd have to recommend the slightly smoother, darker Dragonfly.  And if you're using efficient IEMs without an amp, the DragonFly is a much better choice than the DACport LX, even disregarding the DACport LX' lack of an analog volume control.  I just prefer the smoothness of the Dragonfly when there's nothing else in the chain to make things more forgiving.
   
  Now, when you consider the difference in size and feature set of the two DACS, the Dragonfly is very competitive and for some uses, the clear winner.  I want one, but I've spent enough money on audio lately.  
   




   
  Mike


----------



## longbowbbs

Mike, great review. I love the detail and your efforts to make it apples to apples in comparison. I am curious how many hours were on the DF prior to the  comparison. I know mine didn't really fill out its capabilities for at least the first 200+. I liked the DacPort LX too, but for me the portability won out as I travel a ton and am trying to carry as little as possible. The DF let's me do that with minimal compromise.
   
  Looks like you had a good time with the review as well!  
   
  Thanks!


----------



## zilch0md

The Dragonfly is brand new, so it's had no burn-in to speak of.  I only have it for the weekend, but my friend will probably let me borrow it some time in the future when he has put a lot of hours on it.
   
  Thanks,
   
  Mike


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> The Dragonfly is brand new, so it's had no burn-in to speak of.  I only have it for the weekend, but my friend will probably let me borrow it some time in the future when he has put a lot of hours on it.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mike


 
  Nice friend! I suspect you'll get more out of it when there is some time on the unit.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Mike, sometimes I think maybe you should have gotten the original DACport with the headphone amp and volume control built-in, stead of the LX.  Although it wont drive the LCD-2 as powerfully as a high voltage balanced PB2, I think it would make you quite happy with your IEM and most full size phones.  I just love the mids with mine, and I don't think the mids would be any worse with or without the amp section.  And, from your descriptions I think the original DACport could be more like a mix of the DACport LX mids and the DF highs, with the bass of both.
   
  Without having heard one, I am guessing that the DACport LX must be crisper and more detailed like the DACmini, so I look forward to reading your impressions in that arena as well.  In my case the Pico and D4 DACs are slightly brighter than my original DACport, when feeding another amp.  And based on all of your impressions posted, I think my original DACport is maybe a little darker and smoother than your LX (like the DF).  So maybe not as good to feed the darker sounding PB2, but an improvement when directly driving something like your SE530 or feeding an SR-71b which isn't too dark.  My particular SE530 are in a custom shell and can be a little sibilant at times, and my DACport does tame that a bit.  And, my DACport sounds good with all of my custom IEM, whether UE11Pro, ES3X, JH13Pro or ES5.  So I imagine it would suit your SE530 well too.
   
  It's always difficult when working through component synergy, where you are forced to pick your source to accommodate a colored amp, or pick your amp to accommodate a colored source - or pick bright gear to lift up a dark headphone and visa versa, and pick powerful gear at the expense of detail to drive an inefficient phone.  But I think the original DACport was still a good place to start.  Maybe the DF is a good place for a lot of people to start with too - you get it and use it now, and add to it later with a properly matched amp and phones when you can afford it..
   
  The DACport also sounds good with LCD-2 and HE-500, but doesn't have quite enough juice to give them the weight and impact you'd want or can get from a desktop amp.  The DACmini is more powerful and better with those, but the balanced SR-71b adds several more DB of headroom and more impact above that (like the PB2).  In a pinch the original DACport works well with full size phones and no amp, especially my HD600.  I saw that you used the PB2 and the Stepdance to drive the LCD-2, but I must have missed it if you wrote about how the DF did driving the LCD-2 directly.  I went back a couple of times to read but it's late and I'm tired.  I'd be interested in hearing how well the DF performs as a DAC/amp combo with full-size phones, for when you don't want to mess with adding amps to the mix.  What I like about the DACport is that I don't need an awkward adapter to listen to full size 1/4" phones, and the adapter to listen to 1/8" IEM is quite small and easy to use.
   
  I love the smaller size of the DF and I have gone to Amazon several times and put the DF in my shopping cart.  But not once have I pulled the trigger because I pull out the DACport and listen, and decide that I'd be wasting my money.  That's because I'm at the point now with my gear where I don't just buy everything that I can get my hands on to play with like I used to, but aim mostly for things that I believe will improve the sound, or improve the function over what I have now.  For instance, I only have my uDAC-2 SE or Audioengine D1 because I wanted something small with variable line-out to feed my A2 speakers, but didn't want to have to unplug the speakers every time I wanted to listen to a headphone.  Yet, I still find myself gravitating to the DACport when I'm not using the speakers, and have it plugged in at the same time.


----------



## zilch0md

Larry,
   
  I really like the way you have emphasized the impact that components have on each other.  
   
  Re-reading my comparison, I have to admit that it gets a bit tedious as I went out of my way to ensure that I was qualifying my impressions in the context of the various chains I tried.  Had I written the comparison for just one component chain, I would have had a lot less to say, but as you've pointed out, synergy cannot be ignored.  
   
  Regarding the DACport LX vs. DACport, I've never heard the DACport, but I've read a couple of reviews, including Headfonia Mike's review of the DACport LX, where it's said that it offers more detail than the DACport.  Allegedly, the amp section of the DACport is not ultra-transparent in terms of retaining detail.   I have no idea how significant this lack of transparency is, having never listened to it myself, but judging by your very experienced ears, I'm more curious about the DACport, now.
   
  In terms of retaining detail, would you say the DACport is as transparent as your DACmini CX (when using the DACmini's amp)?
   
  On using the Dragonfly -> LCD-2 rev.1, it's weak - the Dragonfly's 150mW leaves the LCD-2 with no dynamics - it sounds compressed and there's a loss of detail in the low bass.  I'd even say that there's a loss of bass extension, but I might be imagining that.  It makes sense, given that even a 15V Stepdance, which offers almost seven times as much power as the Dragonfly (~1000mW vs. 150mW), sounds good, but not great in terms of dynamics and bass control with the LCD-2.  Consider that I routinely allow myself to suffer a loss of resolution (that's nowhere near as severe as the less-resolving Schiit Lyr, by the way) to obtain the dynamics offered by the 16V-powered IBasso PB2 with LME49990s and HA5002 buffers.  With ~2500mW, the LCD-2 is enjoying about seventeen times as much power as the Dragonfly can produce, and from what I've read, the LCD-2 would sound all the better at higher power levels - all the while going for an 85.0 dB SPL.   
   
  Coincidentally, the first thing I did this morning after making my tea, was to grab my Sennheiser HD280 Pro and plug them straight into the Dragonfly.  They're known for being very efficient and they do sound a lot better on the Dragonfly's 150mW than the LCD-2, in terms of dyanmics, but after just a couple of tracks worth of Con Funk Shun's *Best of Con Funk Shun*, not for the sake of comparison, but just so that I could _enjoy_ the music, I reached for my 15V Stepdance, inserted it between the Dragonfly and the HD280s (Dragonfly -> 15V Stepdance -> HD280), and snap, das wad I'm talkin' 'bout!  HD280 got me bustin' a move juss sittin' in mah chair!
   
   
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I'm still listening to that chain at the moment and it works very well.  The 15V Stepdance has more than enough power to make the HD280s strut and the Dragonfly is a great source for that combo.  OK, now I'm in comparison mode.  Dang!  I was groovin' to the funk, but now I'm going to replace the 15V Stepdance and HD280 with SE530 to see what the HD280 has been leaving out... (Dragonfly -> SE530)  Moving my volume slider from 36 to 18...   Oh man...  The SE530s sound so nice with the Dragonfly - way more detail than with the 15V Stepdance -> HD280, with improved bass extension and control.  
   
  In fact, I neglected to mention in yesterday's comparison, that _my SE530 have never sounded better than they do with the Dragonfly_ (in my experience, at least, with my tastes, my ears.)   But, I haven't tried them with the 15V Stepdance inserted...  here goes... (Dragonfly -> 15V Stepdance -> SE530)  Moving the volume slider to 100...   Nope!   No improvement that I can hear - in fact with the Stepdance in the chain there's a very slight softening of detail in the highs - no amp is perfectly transparent, not even the Stepdance which comes real close to being perfectly neutral and transparent, in my opinion.  Nope, the Dragonfly's amp does a fine job with the SE530s - no need for external amplification.
   
  I just decided to play one of my best recordings for dynamics in the absence of clipping or hard-limited peaks:  Jennifer Warnes'  _*First We Take Manhattan*_, from *Famous Blue Raincoat - The Songs Of Leonard Cohen*:
   
   

   
  This track sounds *great* with the Dragonfly -> SE530!  The SE530 is known for its mids, and again, we're talking about synergy, here - the SE530 is filling in the only hole I've found in the Dragonfly - its somewhat thin mids.  This is a great pairing.
  It makes me think I could sell everything and be happy with just a Dragonfly and the SE530.  Did I say that?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   Sheesh!  I may not sell anything, but it's getting harder and harder not to buy a Dragonfly, now...   In truth, the Dragonfly -> SE530 combo isn't delivering the deep bass than can be had with my 16V PB2 -> LCD-2 rig, of course, and it's brighter, but man, it's really hard to ignore just how awesome this sounds for the size and convenience. 
   
  I'm sure other high-end IEMs would sound great, too, as long as they're not power-hungry (like the Etymotic ER4S, among others.)
   
  I just went back to Dragonfly -> 15V Stepdance -> SE530, so that I could listen to a few tracks of *Famous Blue Raincoat *_with more power to the SE530.  _Again, the Stepdance smooths out the details a bit, but with these very dynamic recordings, having increased the power seven-fold via the Stepdance, I'm not hearing any improvement in bass extension or dynamics - just a slight loss of detail.  
   
  Quickly revisiting  yesterday's DACport LX vs. Dragaonfly comparisons, listening to *Famous Blue Raincoat *now, the DACport LX -> 15V Stepdance -> SE530 combo delivers more detail than the Dragonfly -> 15V Stepdance -> SE530 combo.  The DACport LX is brighter, too.  
   
  But _I would much rather listen to the very efficient SE530 plugged straight into the Dragonfly_.  I'm impressed.  Not so with the HD280s driven by the Dragonfly, and even less so with the LCD-2 on the Dragonfly.
   
  OK, one last revisit of yesterday...  DACport LX -> SE530 vs. Dragonfly -> SE530, with *Famous Blue Raincoat *(matching volume levels):  The DACport LX offers a bit more detail across the spectrum and the mids are more forward with the DACport LX - more like what the SE530 is known for.    Hmmm...  back to the Dragonfly -> SE530.  OK, it's like the difference between a California orange and a Florida orange, but I definitely prefer the SE530's synergy with the Dragonfly.
   
  Oh man, I want to stop comparing stuff and just listen to some music...  Dragonfly -> SE530, for now...
   
  Mike


----------



## longbowbbs

As with any DAC or AMP the pairing with the right headphones is critical. The DF would have a tough time with the HE-6's but with something like the Senn HD25-1's or the HD650's it is no trouble and a great pairing.
   
  Good work Mike!
   
  Now go enjoy some music!


----------



## Pratt

So it's $250 for a thumb drive dac/amp? Price it $100 less, give it some air for the electronics to cool so they'll last more than a year and then it might be interesting. What is this, 2008? There is no reason for this thing to cost this much.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Larry,
> 
> I really like the way you have emphasized the impact that components have on each other...snip...
> 
> ...


----------



## mtkversion

Quote: 





pratt said:


> So it's $250 for a thumb drive dac/amp? Price it $100 less, give it some air for the electronics to cool so they'll last more than a year and then it might be interesting. What is this, 2008? There is no reason for this thing to cost this much.


 
   
  $250 is a great deal when you put things into perspective ...
   

   
   
  These cables are 12ft. in length and simply carry current from an amp to a speaker .... $21,000.
   
  You could buy 8 of them in what you'd pay in sales tax for those cables.


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





pratt said:


> So it's $250 for a thumb drive dac/amp? Price it $100 less, give it some air for the electronics to cool so they'll last more than a year and then it might be interesting. What is this, 2008? There is no reason for this thing to cost this much.


 
   
  I reckon you should make the same $100k outlay as Gordon did and make your own for $100 less.


----------



## longbowbbs

Bob Harley used the DF in his $100K home rig for his review in the October 2012 issue of The Absolute Sound....He loved it. Interesting to see which piece of gear in that system we would consider overpriced!
   
  Also, Neil Gader of TAS named the DF the most significant new product at T.H.E. Show in Newport Beach:  http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/the-show-newport-beach/


----------



## Currawong

HeadphoneAddict: I felt the L3 didn't improve the results with the Dragonfly as much as I expected, so it could be double-amping indeed. Ignoring orthos and maybe high-impedance cans for the moment (I don't have any suitable handy to try) I feel the Dragonfly is simply best as a standalone DAC and amp. It'd be interesting if someone found an amp it combines with well.


----------



## zilch0md

Larry,
   
  Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


>





> *(4) Further down was evidence that excellent gear on paper isn't always the best choice if the synergy isn't there.  It sounds like DACport LX + Stepdance + SE530 > Dragonfly + SE530 >> Dragonfly + Stepdance + SE530.  This is where you took an excellent amp/IEM combo and made it sound worse with the wrong DAC/source.  Could it be that the last rig of the three is worse due to double amping?  No way to know for sure.*


 
   
  As I wrote in the post you're quoting:
   
   


> But _I would much rather listen to the very efficient SE530 plugged straight into the Dragonfly_.


 
   
   
  Thus, the ranking goes like this, for the various SE530 combinations I've tried, from best to worst:
   
  Dragonfly -> SE530
  DACport LX -> 15V Stepdance -> SE530
  Dragonfly -> 15V Stepdance -> SE530
   
  But your punchline is correct - that even with a great amp, when power wasn't needed (as it would be with less efficient headphones), it was best to use the Dragonfly without an external amp.
   
  Thanks,
   
  Mike


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





currawong said:


> HeadphoneAddict: I felt the L3 didn't improve the results with the Dragonfly as much as I expected, so it could be double-amping indeed. Ignoring orthos and maybe high-impedance cans for the moment (I don't have any suitable handy to try) I feel the Dragonfly is simply best as a standalone DAC and amp. It'd be interesting if someone found an amp it combines with well.


 
   
  There could definitely be some confirmation bias at play here, but everything I've thrown at my DF -> O2 combo it either improved the sound (EPH-100/FXD80/Ed8/TP1) or produced no audible difference when compared to the DF out (GR07MKII/JVC S500).


----------



## zilch0md

Quote: 





pratt said:


> So it's $250 for a thumb drive dac/amp? Price it $100 less, give it some air for the electronics to cool so they'll last more than a year and then it might be interesting. What is this, 2008? There is no reason for this thing to cost this much.


 
   
  In support of your position Pratt, let me make a more realistic comparison:
   
   
  For *$399.00*, you can buy this USB DAC + Amp:
   
   

   
   
   
  Or for *$249.00*, you can buy this USB DAC + Amp:
   
   

   
   
  Independent of differences in SQ, differences in Watts RMS output, differences in size, weight, synergy with various chains, convenience and style...
   
  Going only on component count, as hard as I try to imagine that the Dragonfly has a lot of components inside, looking at these two photos, there haven't been enough advances in miniaturization in the past two years to explain the dramatic difference in size.  
   
  Thus, I think the Dragonfly is a poor value relative to the DACport, considering only the component count, but it's not necessarily overpriced.
   
  Everything is worth precisely what people are willing to pay.  And people are snapping up these Dragonfly's at a hectic clip, from what I can tell.  More power to them -  we're fortunate AudioQuest didn't set the retail price any higher.  
   
  The problem with saying that the DACport is a better value on component count, alone, is that this statement ignores everything else that should influence a purchase decision.
   
  Mike


----------



## crzycuyler

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> In support of your position Pratt, let me make a more realistic comparison:
> 
> 
> For *$399.00*, you can buy this USB DAC + Amp:
> ...


 
  lmao, I could have sworn you were going to use this comparison for praise of the DF. You'll see it all on these here forums


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

If I wasn't going to miss my DACport so much I'd offer to send it to Mike to try out for a little while.  
   
  Maybe he could come to RMAF next month and try it out and compare it to his LX feeding an amp.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





crzycuyler said:


> lmao, I could have sworn you were going to use this comparison for praise of the DF. You'll see it all on these here forums


 
   
  I could give a rip about component count. I am interested in sound quality. Burson just made a big deal about reducing the parts count in their new Soloist compared to the 160. Output is the point, not price per part.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Going only on component count, as hard as I try to imagine that the Dragonfly has a lot of components inside, looking at these two photos, there haven't been enough advances in miniaturization in the past two years to explain the dramatic difference in size.
> 
> Mike


 
   
  From the designer:
   
  http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/audioquest-dragonfly-24-96-asynchronous-usb-dac-headphone-amp-12353/index6.html#post163496
   
  "There are 107 components on a 0.6"x1.7" four layer board including a ton of regulators and expensive custom capacitors."


----------



## roibm

So, too expensive? I challenge you to come with something as good at a similar price point.
  I got my second DragonFly (after the first one was defective) and I can't be happier.
   
  And don't forget: DragonFly is async USB done right with two clocks for doing 44.1 and 48 properly. DacPort is not async.
  Don't judge it by it's size, but by it's sound alone. Leave portability and the number of parts inside out of discussion. More parts is not always better when it comes to better SQ. Also, 20 generic parts can be way cheaper than a single custom one, but is it also better?
  Engineering done right can produce marvels like the DragonFly, so deal with it. Considering the SQ, the LX is clearly better than the amplified DacPort, so if a DragonFly without proper run-in can hold its own against the LX... go figure.
   
  DacPort has had it's time and I'm sure they'll come out with something definitely better than the DragonFly, but for now, DF is at least as good as the DP, for less money and way smaller size. I can't be happier.
   
  The only thing troubling me is it's reliability if plugged directly in the USB port of a notebook, and touching it every now and then. I fear it will affect/flex the internal PCB/components and that could result in problems similar to those I had with the first unit. I am using it with a very short (15 cm) good quality USB3 cable that can accommodate the whole plug of the DF (which a standard USB can't). For those interested, the cable is Delock 82776.
   
  Think of the DragonFly as true engineering progress (unlike standard run of the mill copy / paste designs such as 95% of the products out there) and you will see what the future may hold. We just need more *motivated* engineers. Guess what camp the likes of FiiO lie in IMHO.


----------



## zilch0md

Everyone seems to have missed my having written this:
   
  Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Everything is worth precisely what people are willing to pay.  And people are snapping up these Dragonfly's at a hectic clip, from what I can tell.  More power to them -  we're fortunate AudioQuest didn't set the retail price any higher.
> 
> The problem with saying that the DACport is a better value on component count, alone, is that this statement ignores everything else that should influence a purchase decision.


 
   
  Mike


----------



## lmswjm

FWIW, I can get the Leckerton UHA-6S MKII to work with my jailbroken iPhone 4 using  Cydia's CameraConnector and the Apple iPad Camera Connection Kit, but *not* the DragonFly. When plugged in, I get a message indicating that the device requires too much power.


----------



## Currawong

I understand the desire to try and get a definitive answer as to which of two devices are "better". The best anyone can do is give their impressions with their computer, headphones and music choices. I can't imagine anyone making a bad decision buying either unless it doesn't match with any of the above for some reason. Trying to find some reason for one to be better than the other based on parts count, or technology used or whatever, especially without a comprehensive understanding of these things is a bit crazy I reckon. They are both made by talented designers and not cheap, $30 USB sound cards. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  One thing I realise I omitted is that USB-powered devices tend to suffer from congestion with complex music, which I've experienced with the Dragonfly and NFB-16 (using USB power, not the battery). For complex music, a suitably better external amp will definitely be good I reckon.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





roibm said:


> So, too expensive? I challenge you to come with something as good at a similar price point.
> I got my second DragonFly (after the first one was defective) and I can't be happier.
> 
> And don't forget: DragonFly is async USB done right with two clocks for doing 44.1 and 48 properly. DacPort is not async.
> ...


 
   
  There is nothing wrong with Adaptive USB if done right either.
   
  Anyway, I look forward to reading your actual comparison between DF and DP soon.  Cheers!


----------



## weroflu

just received a dragonfly and fired it up. it sounds excellent.
   
  i'm having a problem though as i can only control volume via the audio program. have not yet gotten the DF to be the default sound card
  running under puppy linux 5.31.
   
  is there a way to control the master volume other than via the master volume on the computer?
   
  the problem is with puppy linux, just trying to find a workaround


----------



## longbowbbs

Never tried it with Linux, but on both the Mac and PC I set the DF as the default audio device, then set the volume to max in itunes or jriver. Then I use the pc/mac volume to control the volume level as the front end for the DF amp.


----------



## Alexdad54

Apologies if this has been asked before ( a quick search didn't bring up any info) but can anyone advise as to the best way to get a Dragonfly in Western Canada? The AQ website doesn't indicate a dealer in this region and the cost to ship one via Amazon.com (it doesn't appear on Amazon.ca) is a bit steep. Thanks!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





alexdad54 said:


> Apologies if this has been asked before ( a quick search didn't bring up any info) but can anyone advise as to the best way to get a Dragonfly in Western Canada?


 
  I advise importing more Mosquito's and they should arrive on their own!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Seriously, is there a dealer for Audioquest in Canada you could order from?


----------



## BoxerOrBag

Quote: 





alexdad54 said:


> Apologies if this has been asked before ( a quick search didn't bring up any info) but can anyone advise as to the best way to get a Dragonfly in Western Canada? The AQ website doesn't indicate a dealer in this region and the cost to ship one via Amazon.com (it doesn't appear on Amazon.ca) is a bit steep. Thanks!


 
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I advise importing more Mosquito's and they should arrive on their own!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 this site says they have it in stock, (I've never ordered from them, but I have bought stuff from their physical location)
   
  http://www.headphonebar.com/


----------



## Alexdad54

Nothing that's shown on the AQ website dealer locator. In the meantime, I'll try other channels suggested by a member here.


----------



## MickeyVee

I've ordered online from Headphone Bar.  Actually got my Schiit Bifrost and FiiO stuff from them.  Just checked their site but did not see the DF.
  Quote: 





boxerorbag said:


> this site says they have it in stock, (I've never ordered from them, but I have bought stuff from their physical location)
> 
> http://www.headphonebar.com/


----------



## BoxerOrBag

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> I've ordered online from Headphone Bar.  Actually got my Schiit Bifrost and FiiO stuff from them.  Just checked their site but did not see the DF.


 

 below the top blue bar on the site: "*[size=small]New - Audioquest Dragonfly now in"[/size]*


----------



## TheMaestro335

Hello all,
I just got this yesterday, probably have about 15hrs on it. Really does sound amazing! I have it set up with Windows 7 via an Acer laptop with a RCA split pair going to my M stage amp. I have a question about the color indicator on the dragon fly? I set the sample rate to 24 bit ,96HZ. When I play any hi Rez lossless audio it stays on the color purple? I thought that this DAC detects the various resolutions by changing colors? I am feeding it all types of sample rates, but still it stays purple? Did I set it up wrong?


----------



## MickeyVee

Doh! I was looking in the sac/amp section.  Anyway, my experiences with them have been great.  I'll probably get the LCD2 from them when I'm ready.
  Quote: 





boxerorbag said:


> below the top blue bar on the site: "*[size=small]New - Audioquest Dragonfly now in"[/size]*


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





themaestro335 said:


> Hello all,
> I just got this yesterday, probably have about 15hrs on it. Really does sound amazing! I have it set up with Windows 7 via an Acer laptop with a RCA split pair going to my M stage amp. I have a question about the color indicator on the dragon fly? I set the sample rate to 24 bit ,96HZ. When I play any hi Rez lossless audio it stays on the color purple? I thought that this DAC detects the various resolutions by changing colors? I am feeding it all types of sample rates, but still it stays purple? Did I set it up wrong?


 
   
  Nope, it senses what the system is sending it from the sound setup in the system menu. It won't read it automatically by the file. You have to set it correctly in the setup when changing from 16/44 to say 24/96, etc...


----------



## TheMaestro335

longbowbbs said:


> Nope, it senses what the system is sending it from the sound setup in the system menu. It won't read it automatically by the file. You have to set it correctly in the setup when changing from 16/44 to say 24/96, etc...




Hello,
Thanks for your reply. Ok so every thing is working fine! Is it ok to keep my settings @ 24/96, or should I change it each time based on the resolution I feed it? Ex, If I have the settings at 24/96, 
And then feed it some Apple lossless tracks @ 24/44, will the DAC correct the timing automatically or would it sound better if I changed the commuter settings to 24/44?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





themaestro335 said:


> Hello,
> Thanks for your reply. Ok so every thing is working fine! Is it ok to keep my settings @ 24/96, or should I change it each time based on the resolution I feed it? Ex, If I have the settings at 24/96,
> And then feed it some Apple lossless tracks @ 24/44, will the DAC correct the timing automatically or would it sound better if I changed the commuter settings to 24/44?


 
  I only change the settings when I am playing a different resolutions. I have about 25 albums in hi-rez FLAC from HDTracks. The rest are CD's I ripped lossless in AIFF via iTunes. Not a big deal to change the settings but I find I tend to listen to the FLAC's in their own session.


----------



## MickeyVee

I had a bit of a fail list night with the DF.  It was hooked directly into my MacBookAir (on a coffee table) and feeding my HD700.  About once every 10 minutes or so, it would cut out and I had to re-seat it.  Finally figued out that it was the DF dropping down a bit and when I raised it, I got sound again.  I ended up putting a thin coaster under the DF to keep it level.
  I ended up ordering a short USB extension cable.
_*Audioquest really needs to come out with the Dragon Tail!!*_


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> I had a bit of a fail list night with the DF.  It was hooked directly into my MacBookAir (on a coffee table) and feeding my HD700.  About once every 10 minutes or so, it would cut out and I had to re-seat it.  Finally figued out that it was the DF dropping down a bit and when I raised it, I got sound again.  I ended up putting a thin coaster under the DF to keep it level.
> I ended up ordering a short USB extension cable.
> _*Audioquest really needs to come out with the Dragon Tail!!*_


 
   
  That's a little scary.  As another poster also mentioned experiencing earlier in the thread, the actual unit inside the casing for mine is slightly loose.  Like I can shake it and it rattles a bit.  Also the input jack is slightly loose now.  It doesn't seem to be quite as durable as it feels at first.


----------



## BoxerOrBag

would this help?
   
  http://www.amazon.com/HDE-Vertical-Male-Female-Adapter/dp/B006C0QWEK/ref=pd_bxgy_e_img_y


----------



## TheMaestro335

Hello All,
I have about 25 hrs on this thing and all I can say is I am completely blown away with this thing! I have it going through my op amp modded M stage amp, via split audio quest RCAs.
The sound is huge! Great imaging! currently using my HD600s.


----------



## MickeyVee

I may have spoke too soon.  Came home after work to do some more testing and yes, after about 10 minutes, even with the USB extension, it started cutting out and doing weird things.  Re-seated it and it would go well for another 10.  It was starting to drive me crazy.  Wondering if I had a bad USB port sot I hooked up my Audioengine D1 and there were some clicks here and there. Tried the DF on my MacMini and it seemed to work OK.  Rebooted the MBA and things seemed normal.  To make a long story short, I think I had BitPerfect enabled. It really does weird things and I disabled it but programmed a button on my remote to engage it.  Deleted BitPerfect from my systems, hooked everything back up and all seems OK for the last half hour or so.  No signs of any weirdness.
  BTW.. really, really prefer the DragonFly over the Audioengine D1.
   
  I still hold fast that AQ needs to come out with the Dragon Tail.  
   
  All seems OK now.  Silly User Error 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Quote: 





bobeau said:


> That's a little scary.  As another poster also mentioned experiencing earlier in the thread, the actual unit inside the casing for mine is slightly loose.  Like I can shake it and it rattles a bit.  Also the input jack is slightly loose now.  It doesn't seem to be quite as durable as it feels at first.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> I may have spoke too soon.  Came home after work to do some more testing and yes, after about 10 minutes, even with the USB extension, it started cutting out and doing weird things.  Re-seated it and it would go well for another 10.  It was starting to drive me crazy.  Wondering if I had a bad USB port sot I hooked up my Audioengine D1 and there were some clicks here and there. Tried the DF on my MacMini and it seemed to work OK.  Rebooted the MBA and things seemed normal.  To make a long story short, I think I had BitPerfect enabled. It really does weird things and I disabled it but programmed a button on my remote to engage it.  Deleted BitPerfect from my systems, hooked everything back up and all seems OK for the last half hour or so.  No signs of any weirdness.
> BTW.. really, really prefer the DragonFly over the Audioengine D1.
> 
> I still hold fast that AQ needs to come out with the Dragon Tail.
> ...


 
  So far the DF seems pretty reliable and really really good!


----------



## HeroicPenguin

Just got this little device this week! Got it for a complete steal ($165 brand new) and it really did the trick for what I wanted (small DAC/amp to get rid of hiss for my IEMs). The fact that it has great quality is even better and that it only cost $50 more than my old MSII.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





heroicpenguin said:


> Just got this little device this week! Got it for a complete steal ($165 brand new) and it really did the trick for what I wanted (small DAC/amp to get rid of hiss for my IEMs). The fact that it has great quality is even better and that it only cost $50 more than my old MSII.


 
  $165??!! Score!


----------



## zilch0md

Quote: 





heroicpenguin said:


> Just got this little device this week! Got it for a complete steal ($165 brand new) and it really did the trick for what I wanted (small DAC/amp to get rid of hiss for my IEMs). The fact that it has great quality is even better and that it only cost $50 more than my old MSII.


 
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> $165??!! Score!


 
   
  Where?


----------



## USAudio

I've been considering the Sennheiser Amperior or Beyerdynamic DT1350 to go along with the DragonFly.
  Any thoughts on how well those headphones will match with the DragonFly?
  One better than the other?  If so, why?
  Thanks!


----------



## longbowbbs

The Beyer DT-1350 works very well. I use it with the MBPro/DF combo and it is a winner.


----------



## alphaphoenix

Congrats HeroicPenguin


----------



## alphaphoenix

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> The Beyer DT-1350 works very well. I use it with the MBPro/DF combo and it is a winner.


 

 I concur.  Same combo here (except - swap out the MBPro with my X220) when I want bigger sound, and leak proof isolation.  I feel the DT1350 is worth every penny paid for its retail price. All its attributes justifies the price, IMO.  The DragonFly took a few days to make that adjustment.  Next to my 128GB thumb drive with similar build and weight, it was a fraction of the cost.  For any revolutionary product, it carries a relative high admission price, but it does what it does very well, and there's not a similar product like it that I know of.  I digress.
   
  The DF shows off what it does well in such a small package with all my IEM and headphones.  For me, the DT1350 represents an incredible perception of space and 3D like sonics.  Its character fits nicely in between my forwarded presentation from my Grado and layed back IEM.  With the DF driving my IEM very well and the Grado pretty good (lacks a little weight and authority, but expected with just the DF in the chain).   Replace the transducer source with the DT1350 and that weight and authority is ever present so well.  The sound I get between the DT1350 and the DF is that it sounds "just right".  I know that's a very vague description, but basically if you take the consensus characters of the DT1350, throw in the DF between the DT1350 and your music source via USB, you have an incredible sounding setup.  I think the only thing I would like to see on the DF is a physical two setting, gain switch.


----------



## HeroicPenguin

Quote: 





alphaphoenix said:


> Congrats HeroicPenguin


 
   
  Thanks buddy! Totally wouldn't have found that without you! It's a great lil' device. Kills two birds with one stone for me (DAC for my HD600s and a amp/DAC for my IEMs). It's really perfect for people that either travel a lot or students (like me).


----------



## Alexdad54

Going to order one from the store here in Vancouver that was suggested. A question, will I need to use my KICAS headphone amp between the DF and my Denon D7000's or will it drive them fine without it?. I 'm going to take it on the road, it would be great not to have to add another piece of gear....


----------



## zilch0md

Quote: 





heroicpenguin said:


> Just got this little device this week! *Got it for a complete steal ($165 brand new) *and it really did the trick for what I wanted (small DAC/amp to get rid of hiss for my IEMs). The fact that it has great quality is even better and that it only cost $50 more than my old MSII.


 
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> *$165??!! Score!*


 
   
  Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> *Where?*


 
   
  Does anyone else want to know where you can get a new Dragonfly for $165 instead of $249?
   
  I must be the poorest kid on the block.
   
  Mike


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





alexdad54 said:


> Going to order one from the store here in Vancouver that was suggested. A question, will I need to use my KICAS headphone amp between the DF and my Denon D7000's or will it drive them fine without it?. I 'm going to take it on the road, it would be great not to have to add another piece of gear....


 
  Try it alone first. So far with most HP's it has been more than adequate.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Does anyone else want to know where you can get a new Dragonfly for $165 instead of $249?
> 
> I must be the poorest kid on the block.
> 
> Mike


 
   
  Nothing wrong with wanting a good value. Just makes good sense!


----------



## HeroicPenguin

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Does anyone else want to know where you can get a new Dragonfly for $165 instead of $249?
> 
> I must be the poorest kid on the block.
> 
> Mike


 
   
  It was an eBay seller. It was actually a pretty strange experience buying from this guy. He actually first sent me a Dragonfly, but it was the box only (!!!). I contacted him again and he sent me another device, but this time it was the right one. Strange experience that made me feel like it was a fake (especially at that price), but I don't know about any fake DFs. Plus, it should like the real deal. So, it seems like this guy had to buy a second one to ship to me, so he either lost a ton of money, or knows someone at AQ to buy them really cheap. Confusing to say the least, but I'm satisfied on my end.


----------



## longbowbbs

Why would anyone send an empty box and think someone would not notice?  Very strange!


----------



## HeroicPenguin

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Why would anyone send an empty box and think someone would not notice?  Very strange!


 
   
  Well I don't think the guy actually checked the box before he sent it out, since he seemed like a honest person to work with and very sorry about the inconvinence. I'm still confused to say the least.


----------



## longbowbbs

Glad you got your DF and are enjoying it!  I am enjoying mine right now...


----------



## zilch0md

Quote: 





heroicpenguin said:


> Well I don't think the guy actually checked the box before he sent it out, since he seemed like a honest person to work with and very sorry about the inconvinence. I'm still confused to say the least.


 
   
  Thanks for responding - all's well that ends well, and you did very well!


----------



## barbes

alexdad54 said:


> Going to order one from the store here in Vancouver that was suggested. A question, will I need to use my KICAS headphone amp between the DF and my Denon D7000's or will it drive them fine without it?. I 'm going to take it on the road, it would be great not to have to add another piece of gear....




I've got the D7000s and the DF is great with them. You'll be very pleased, I predict.


----------



## mtkversion

Quote: 





heroicpenguin said:


> It was an eBay seller. It was actually a pretty strange experience buying from this guy. He actually first sent me a Dragonfly, but it was the box only (!!!). I contacted him again and he sent me another device, but this time it was the right one. Strange experience that made me feel like it was a fake (especially at that price), but I don't know about any fake DFs. Plus, it should like the real deal. So, it seems like this guy had to buy a second one to ship to me, so he either lost a ton of money, or knows someone at AQ to buy them really cheap. Confusing to say the least, but I'm satisfied on my end.


 
   
  Do you have the link to his page?  Would like to see if he has any more ... especially at that price.


----------



## Panotaker

I just got my DF on Friday. Like everybody says, the DF rocks with the HD-650's. It also rocks with my HD-25 II's and my ES-4P's. It even has enough power to run my antique HD-414's, but I have to max out the volume, but with the SR-71 headphone amp, the HD-414 have plenty of headroom.


----------



## veracocha

Is it working as usb audio dac with the samsung galaxy s3 ?


----------



## BBEG

Echoing the above question. I wonder if there's a mini->usb cable small enough that you could lay the Dragonfly along the back of a phone for a super low-profile DAC / amp + phone combo. While it lacks the controls of a traditional DAC / amp like the E17 or somesuch, I'm sure Android has apps that provide good mixing / EQ options if needed.
   
  Any comparisons of the DF's amp performance?


----------



## mackat

I still don't get HOW it uses the computer's volume control to control an analog volume control. I'm pretty ignorant here, so please, can someone explain?
   
  It looks pretty nice!


----------



## haquocdung

I don't know how to differentiate the sound signature of the dac and amp (I have O2/ODAC combo and Dragon Fly that drive my Mad Dog)
  But here's what I can say. The DF is an amazing amp/dac. It drives my Sen HD650 at 30% of windows volume and drive my Mad Dog at 50% of windows volume. (100% volume in foobar)
  I enjoy the sound from the DF to my 2 cans much more than the O2/ODAC because of it brings out the musical that I can stay back and enjoy listening, while O2/ODAC is so much analytical that I have my focus on the sounds rather than the music. However, I notice the O2/ODAC have smoother high, and bass goes very deep.
  The Dragon Fly is a great amp/dac.


----------



## haquocdung

How do you remove the dragon fly amp/dac from the laptop?
  I dont see the options of unplug it.
  I would like to maximize the life span of this little baby.


----------



## nc8000

You grab it with your fingers and pull it out


----------



## alphaphoenix

^As simple as it gets.  If you're worried about the wear on the USB connector, purchase a female USB extension cable.


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





haquocdung said:


> How do you remove the dragon fly amp/dac from the laptop?
> I dont see the options of unplug it.
> I would like to maximize the life span of this little baby.


 
   
  As far as I know there's nothing you have to do with the OS before removing the DragonFly. 
  You don't have to "Eject" the Dragonfly like you normally would do with a USB flash drive.
  Just carefully pull it straight out and you should be good!


----------



## Alexdad54

Thanks for the info re the D7000's.
  A couple more questions; I will need a 1/4" to 1/8" adapter for the DF, are there any sonic differences between the cheap brands and something like the Grado?
  Alsocould there be any advantage to geting a USB 3.0 extension cable vs. a USB 2.0? They're only a couple of bucks more.....


----------



## elnero

Quote: 





alexdad54 said:


> Thanks for the info re the D7000's.
> A couple more questions; I will need a 1/4" to 1/8" adapter for the DF, are there any sonic differences between the cheap brands and something like the Grado?
> Alsocould there be any advantage to geting a USB 3.0 extension cable vs. a USB 2.0? They're only a couple of bucks more.....


 
   
  I don't know about sonic benefits but with the Dragonfly I'd think you would want to get something like the Grado where the 1/4" is on a cable away from the 1/8" jack. Using one of the single piece ones would probably weigh the DF down quite a bit.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





haquocdung said:


> I don't know how to differentiate the sound signature of the dac and amp (I have O2/ODAC combo and Dragon Fly that drive my Mad Dog)
> But here's what I can say. The DF is an amazing amp/dac. It drives my Sen HD650 at 30% of windows volume and drive my Mad Dog at 50% of windows volume. (100% volume in foobar)
> I enjoy the sound from the DF to my 2 cans much more than the O2/ODAC because of it brings out the musical that I can stay back and enjoy listening, while O2/ODAC is so much analytical that I have my focus on the sounds rather than the music. However, I notice the O2/ODAC have smoother high, and bass goes very deep.
> The Dragon Fly is a great amp/dac.


 
   
  Try the DF -> O2 -> Mad Dog.  I absolutely loved it with my Thunderpants, just find the DF amp out to be a tad underdriven for the task compared to the O2.


----------



## elnero

Listening to the Dragonfly straight out to the ATH-W3000ANV's, it sounds pretty darn good.


----------



## Alexdad54

Quote: 





elnero said:


> I don't know about sonic benefits but with the Dragonfly I'd think you would want to get something like the Grado where the 1/4" is on a cable away from the 1/8" jack. Using one of the single piece ones would probably weigh the DF down quite a bit.


 
  Thanks, II was looking at the Grado but it doesn't seem to be available here in the GWN (Canada).....


----------



## elnero

alexdad54 said:


> Thanks, II was looking at the Grado but it doesn't seem to be available here in the GWN (Canada).....




Where in Canada are you located?


----------



## MickeyVee

Got mine at Bay Bloor Radio in Toronto.  Any place that sells Grado headphones should stock them. There's alway eBay.
   
  Quote: 





alexdad54 said:


> Thanks, II was looking at the Grado but it doesn't seem to be available here in the GWN (Canada).....


----------



## Alexdad54

Quote: 





elnero said:


> Where in Canada are you located?


 
  Edmonton


----------



## longbowbbs

Any Audioquest dealer in Edmonton should have a DF in stock. Heck the mall should have it somewhere! That place has enough stores to cover almost anything!


----------



## elnero

Quote: 





alexdad54 said:


> Edmonton


 

 I'm not sure about Grado dealers there, you could try phoning around to the local Hi-Fi shops. There's also what looks to be the Canadian Grado distributor and Headphone Bar in BC who carry Grado. If none of those work, as mentioned there's eBay or I'm sure you could probably pick one via one of the sponsors like Todd The Vinyl Junkie.


----------



## BBBS

I'm very leery of the price. The actual DAC chip in it looks to be a $4 part, and obviously a lot less in bulk. There must be some magical parts in there to bump it up to $250.


----------



## devilsadvocate

So I received mine yesterday and love it.  I have been using it almost non-stop and it pairs wonderfully with the ie 80s - great clarity and quality throughout the sound spectrum.  However, one thing concerns me about the DAC for the long term.  When I plug the DF into a USB 2.0 port it works perfectly.  However, when I plug it into a USB 3.0 port it doesn't get recognized.  I've tried this on two separate notebooks with the same result.  Both are running Windows 7 64 bit.  Anyone have any ideas?

 Also, did anyone figure out if this can be used with a Galaxy S III?


----------



## BBBS

Google sounds positive that the S3 supports USB audio as a host, so all you'd need is a cable.

I make no promises, tho. I don't know anything about compatibility and drivers.


----------



## devilsadvocate

Quote: 





bbbs said:


> Google sounds positive that the S3 supports USB audio as a host, so all you'd need is a cable.
> I make no promises, tho. I don't know anything about compatibility and drivers.


 
   
  Well, we will soon find out.  I just ordered the cable, so I will update everyone in this thread.
   
  In other news, I did a bit of research with regards to issues with USB 3.0 and came across this: http://createdigitalmusic.com/2012/06/usb-3-0-backwards-compatible-in-theory-but-some-audio-drivers-arent-cooperating/
   
  It appears the DF is falling victim to this, which is concerning me as at some point USB 2.0 will get discontinued.  As I just spent $250, I would hate to think that it may be useless on my next laptop.


----------



## elnero

Quote: 





bbbs said:


> Google sounds positive that the S3 supports USB audio as a host, so all you'd need is a cable.
> I make no promises, tho. I don't know anything about compatibility and drivers.


 

 The problem I see is the DF relies on getting its power from the USB port so unless the S3 is sporting a powered USB port I would imagine this would be a no go.


----------



## Jazz1

Wow. Thanks. Never  thought of the DF and the MM-1's. I'm going to give them a try.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





jazz1 said:


> Wow. Thanks. Never  thought of the DF and the MM-1's. I'm going to give them a try.


 
  Great combo. They image like crazy with the DF!


----------



## crooner

Stereophile's review of the Dragonfly is up:
   
http://www.stereophile.com/content/audioquest-dragonfly-usb-da-converter
   
  Overall a very positive review.
   
  One interesting observation is the fact that there are two versions of the DF with slightly different volume control configuration.
   
  The first or early version clips the output after the 60th step.
   
  The current version stops at the 60th step and thus reduces the distortion at max volume significantly.
   
  I wonder what version do I have and if there is a way to find out by the codes on the box since the device has no version markings of its own.


----------



## Andrew P

Has anyone tried using the Dragonfly with an iPad with usb adaptor?


----------



## haquocdung

The DF works fine on my X230 usb3.0 port.


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





andrew p said:


> Has anyone tried using the Dragonfly with an iPad with usb adaptor?


 
   
  Doesn't work. Draws too much power.


----------



## devilsadvocate

Quote: 





haquocdung said:


> The DF works fine on my X230 usb3.0 port.


 
   
  Interesting.  One of my laptops is an X220 and it didn't work.  Maybe the newer USB3.0 ports will have better support.


----------



## Coolsax

Quote: 





crooner said:


> Stereophile's review of the Dragonfly is up:
> 
> http://www.stereophile.com/content/audioquest-dragonfly-usb-da-converter
> 
> ...


 
  actually its talking about the Wavelength proton with regards to the extra steps if i read the article correctly.. it states the dragonfly does not have the extra steps which allows dragonfly to keep from distorting.


----------



## ellenico

Hi everybody,
   
  I have a Nuforce uDac, and I'm considering upgrading to a Dragonfly. I've already read that SQ-wise the Dragonfly is superior, but I'd like to understand if it also works well as an output from the browser.
   
  I know it's not very audiophile, but I often use Grooveshark to listen to some music, and in this case the uDac performs much worse than my laptop soundcard. Only if I listen through Foobar with WASAPI output, the uDac works properly well.
   
  How is the Dragonfly working with a browser like Google Chrome and Grooveshark as a source?
   
  By the way, I have some Grado SR80i, and as IEM a pair of Shure SE535+Baldur MKII cable.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## DanBa

A DragonFly designed specifically for Android devices: AudioQuest Bumblebee Android DAC 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/390#post_8738656
   
  Can the AudioQuest Bumblebee interwork with PC / Mac?
  If the AudioQuest Bumblebee is a standard USB DAC, while using with a PC or a Mac, the sound quality of an AudioQuest Bumblebee should be superior to the sound quality of an AudioQuest DragonFly thanks to a clean battery power.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/165#post_8540151


----------



## verber

[size=small] In the last  week I have had the time to sit down and spend some time comparing some of the DAC/amps which my family has been using for mobile listening. Specifically the DragonFly, CEnterence DACport, and a Fostex HP-P1. My reference point is a Lavry DA-11.  The primary headphones I use when on the go are a pair of Etymotic HF3, but I also tried these for a these units with Sennheiser HD800, Stax SR-001, Thunderpants, Bose QC3, and Audio Technica ATH-M50S.  None of these small units were able to really do justice to the HD800 or the Thunderpants.  Both headphones could be driven to an adequate volume (pink noise with volume at max on the HD800 measured around 89db on the DACport and Dragon Fly), but they were held back by the lack of power.  The Fostex could produce more more volume when on gain setting 2 & 3, but sounded like it was clipping.  I didn't think to grab a waveform and see if it was. With all these units, dynamics weren't as dramatic when powered by a better amplifier, and a good bit of the transparency I love from the HD800 was missing.[/size]
 [size=small]  [/size]
 [size=small] I found the DragonFly and the DACport quite similar. In terms of practical power,  I measure maximum volume using pink noise with the HD800 and the DACport could go 1.5db louder than the DragonFly. Compared to the DA-11, both had a somewhat flat sound stage. I noticed this with a number of tracks, but it really jumped out when listening to Chesky's new binaural recording.  For example, when listening to Chesky's Dancing Flute & Drum through the DA-11 I felt like I could tell you where the walls were from the echoes.  No such sense with any of the other DAC/amps.[/size]
 [size=small]  [/size]
 [size=small] When doing blind A/B between the DACport and DragonFly I had trouble telling them apart, though I seemed to slightly prefer the sound from the DACport. I think it was a bit fuller than the DragonFly, but it was a slight difference. I could always pick out the DA-11 and preferred it's sound: better clarity, control, and of course the better soundstage as mentioned above. While the DA-11 was clearly better, it wasn't approaching an order of magnitude better, suggestions that both the DACport and the DragonFly are good values but not giant slayers.  If a friend asked which one to purchase, I would say either would be fine. The DACport has a slight edge on SQ and power, but the DragonFly is cheaper and smaller which can be a big plus for mobile use.[/size]
 [size=small]  [/size]
 [size=small] Alas, the Fostex HP-P1 wasn't able to keep up with either the DragonFly or the DACport.  It's sound stage was even flatter. I also found it's bass not as tight, and it had less detail in the middles and the treble.  I found the treble both a bit thin and bright. This unit clearly doesn't provide the same SQ / $$ of the other units though it was a clear improvement over the built in headphone out on our i-Devices and the Mac Air headphone jack. While I preferred the sound quality of the DragonFly and DACport to the HP-P1, the HP-P1 is incredible useful for those of us who carry around i-Devices, especially with the TOSlink output.  This was very useful at a recent mini meet I was at.[/size]
 [size=small]  [/size]
 [size=small] --Mark[/size]
 [size=small]  [/size]


----------



## mikemercer

Quote: 





verber said:


> [size=small] In the last  week I have had the time to sit down and spend some time comparing some of the DAC/amps which my family has been using for mobile listening. Specifically the DragonFly, CEnterence DACport, and a Fostex HP-P1. My reference point is a Lavry DA-11.  The primary headphones I use when on the go are a pair of Etymotic HF3, but I also tried these for a these units with Sennheiser HD800, Stax SR-001, Thunderpants, Bose QC3, and Audio Technica ATH-M50S.  None of these small units were able to really do justice to the HD800 or the Thunderpants.  Both headphones could be driven to an adequate volume (pink noise with volume at max on the HD800 measured around 89db on the DACport and Dragon Fly), but they were held back by the lack of power.  The Fostex could produce more more volume when on gain setting 2 & 3, but sounded like it was clipping.  I didn't think to grab a waveform and see if it was. With all these units, dynamics weren't as dramatic when powered by a better amplifier, and a good bit of the transparency I love from the HD800 was missing.[/size]
> [size=small]  [/size]
> [size=small] I found the DragonFly and the DACport quite similar. In terms of practical power,  I measure maximum volume using pink noise with the HD800 and the DACport could go 1.5db louder than the DragonFly. Compared to the DA-11, both had a somewhat flat sound stage. I noticed this with a number of tracks, but it really jumped out when listening to Chesky's new binaural recording.  For example, when listening to Chesky's Dancing Flute & Drum through the DA-11 I felt like I could tell you where the walls were from the echoes.  No such sense with any of the other DAC/amps.[/size]
> [size=small]  [/size]
> ...


 
  Thanks for this post Mark!
   
  I've been looking forward to the CEntrance HiFi-M8 for months.  AS I'd love to have a decent all-in-one.  I was working there when the team came up with it - it was an exciting concept - can't wait to hear it!!   I need to spend more time w/ the Fostex.
   
  I got my DAcport back recently for a direct comparison - and using one of my own house music releases from back in 2004 (the original digital file, the .WAV fron the master) I'd say the DACport was actually more truthful in its tonal and dynamic detail retrieval - but not overwhelmingly so.  They were pretty damn close!  Closer than I had anticipated.  So, though I'm with Steve Guttenberg when it comes to "accuracy" (I don't see Hifi as a chase for the real thing - rather a vehicle to enjoy music, which I LOVE beyond a short description here) and in terms of the sonic signature, I prefer the Dragonfly personally.  For my ears, there's more excitement in the midrange, what people would call "warmth" or texture.  I simply like the rounded sound of the Dragonfly, vs. the (again IMO - we all hear differently people) somewhat analytical sound of the DACport.  I LOVE their Audiophile Desktop System though.  BEST small-scale system package on the market, hands down.  Blows me away DAILY. 
   
  I think my cousin Kenny says it best (he has a Dragonfly and DACport too - and Audeze LCD3's - which is what I'm using w/ mine, and JH Audio JH-13 Pros IEMS): He said, and Here's an even more succinct quote:  "When I want to listen to the mix, I use the DACport.  When I want to listen to the music, I use the Dragonfly." (he works for Stevie Wonder).  I think the cool factor plays a role here too.  What I mean is: I appreciate not having to bring another cable with me for myDAC/Head-amp when traveling w/ my Macbook Pro.  I also love its sounds as a DAC w/ the ALO RxMK3-B as the head-amp (via Nordost Heimdall iKable)! 
   
  and thanks to Jude for featuring my latest installment of _What is the __Future of the High End_ series for PFO!!
   
  I'll be bringing my Dragonfly for my Macbook Pro (lovin the SSD) and my HRT Headstreamer for my iPad at RMAF.


----------



## verber

Quote: 





> I got my DAcport back recently for a direct comparison - and using one of my own house music releases from back in 2004 (the original digital file, the .WAV fron the master) I'd say the DACport was actually more truthful in its tonal and dynamic detail retrieval - but not overwhelmingly so.  <snip> So, though I'm with Steve Guttenberg when it comes to "accuracy" (I don't see Hifi as a chase for the real thing - rather a vehicle to enjoy music, which I LOVE beyond a short description here) and in terms of the sonic signature, I prefer the Dragonfly personally.  For my ears, there's more excitement in the midrange, what people would call "warmth" or texture.  I simply like the rounded sound of the Dragonfly, vs. the (again IMO - we all hear differently people) somewhat analytical sound of the DACport.


 
   
  Indeed, it's close, and personal preference would be the tie breaker. Your commons shows why from a SQ perspective we would chose different unit. For me, equipment that is on the analytical slight (without being too cold), getting all the little details is what pulls me into the music.
   
  --Mark


----------



## mikemercer

Quote: 





verber said:


> Indeed, it's close, and personal preference would be the tie breaker. Your commons shows why from a SQ perspective we would chose different unit. For me, equipment that is on the analytical slight (without being too cold), getting all the little details is what pulls me into the music.
> 
> --Mark


 
  OH, don't get me wrong: Detail retrieval/resolving capabilities are VERY important to me.  However, it's about soul, which is very difficult to encapsulate or quantify (which I often try to do in my writing).  I'll use Wilson Audio speakers for example: I can't tell you who, but a legendary music producer and composer once told me that we were of the same opinion on Wilson Audio speakers (and I like Dave, he's an awesome man, plus I finally do like a speaker of his, the Sasha - which is the speaker he re-designed after he toured the world listening to live music) - but this producer heard me say something on a panel that he said resonated with him: I said that Wilson's often sounded "too perfect" for me, like the greatest Hifi, but music is not that to me.  Sometimes the magic is in the imperfection (and I don't mean muddiness or lack of clarity).  I said that the Wilson's were truthful, and sounded very accurate to me when we played a vinyl pressing of a house record I produced back in 2004 - but these other loudspeakers (the Nola Viper Reference) nailed the details, and also excited me.  There's just something about the Dragonfly's sound, especially w/ my JH Audio's or Audeze's - that draws me in deeper.  Maybe that might break it down a bit more.
   
  and, like I said earlier, the HRT Headstreamer also sounds great.  Right now I'm loving the Pan Am/Passport combo - which I think I'm going to buy as my desktop rig.
   
  and, I think we may have tastes that are more in-line than you think.  I'm referring to that coldness when I say analytical - resolving, to me, gets the details AND the soul/nuance of the music.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





mikemercer said:


> and thanks to Jude for featuring my latest installment of _What is the __Future of the High End_ series for PFO!!
> 
> I'll be bringing my Dragonfly for my Macbook Pro (lovin the SSD) and my HRT Headstreamer for my iPad at RMAF.


 
   
  Great article Mike! I hope to catch your show at RMAF.


----------



## devilsadvocate

Quote: 





bbbs said:


> Google sounds positive that the S3 supports USB audio as a host, so all you'd need is a cable.
> I make no promises, tho. I don't know anything about compatibility and drivers.


 
   
  Just tried it.  Doesn't work.  Light comes on but not hearing any sound and playing both audio and video shows that the recordings are skipping.  It is probably drawing too much power.  Unfortunately, I don't have a powered USB hub to test out this theory.


----------



## 4nradio

Did you use a OTG type of USB cable? My S3 won't work with my (USB powered) ODAC either unless I use an OTG cable. I doubt the power draw of the Dragonfly is the problem, unless you are already using OTG (On the Go) USB.
   
  Every DAC that's verified to operate with the Galaxy S3 requires OTG.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





bbbs said:


> Google sounds positive that the S3 supports USB audio as a host, so all you'd need is a cable.
> I make no promises, tho. I don't know anything about compatibility and drivers.





   
  Just tried it.  Doesn't work.  Light comes on but not hearing any sound and playing both audio and video shows that the recordings are skipping.  It is probably drawing too much power.  Unfortunately, I don't have a powered USB hub to test out this theory.


----------



## devilsadvocate

Quote: 





4nradio said:


> Did you use a OTG type of USB cable? My S3 won't work with my (USB powered) ODAC either unless I use an OTG cable. I doubt the power draw of the Dragonfly is the problem, unless you are already using OTG (On the Go) USB.
> 
> Every DAC that's verified to operate with the Galaxy S3 requires OTG.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes, it was an OTG cable.


----------



## Audiowood

Quote: 





devilsadvocate said:


> Yes, it was an OTG cable.


 
  Thanks for trying, takes me alot of searching to get here..


----------



## ellenico

Quote: 





ellenico said:


> [...]
> 
> How is the Dragonfly working with a browser like Google Chrome and Grooveshark as a source?
> 
> [...]


 
   
  Anyone tried?


----------



## mikemercer

Quote: 





ellenico said:


> Anyone tried?


 
  Works great for me w/ Chrome
  I'll give Grooveshark a go (havent't used it in a few weeks) and report back


----------



## mikemercer

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Great article Mike! I hope to catch your show at RMAF.


 
  Thanks!!!  I greatly appreciate the support here guys.
  I'm SO excited to have new sonic territory to explore, and unlike some reviewers (who consider themselves above the users) I can say that
  I have learned a great deal from my time on Head-fi!!!!
   
  and YEAH - getting to spin vinyl on Burmester gear - whoah!  NEVER thought that would happen!!


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





mikemercer said:


> Thanks!!!  I greatly appreciate the support here guys.


 
   
  +1 on using this with an internet streaming service... I use MOG primarily (highly recommended for 320 kbps streaming) and they have a native client that talks directly to Core Audio on OSX, but it sounds good straight thru the website as well.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





mikemercer said:


> and YEAH - getting to spin vinyl on Burmester gear - whoah!  NEVER thought that would happen!!


 
   
  Better gold plate your fingers! Gotta show respect to the Burmeister...


----------



## mikemercer

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Better gold plate your fingers! Gotta show respect to the Burmeister...


 
  seriously! its crazy.  I hear they have to get one of the phonostages shipped from Harry Pearson's place for the gig
  (so there are two for the decks).  Boy is he gonna be pissed at me!!!!


----------



## mikemercer

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> +1 on using this with an internet streaming service... I use MOG primarily (highly recommended for 320 kbps streaming) and they have a native client that talks directly to Core Audio on OSX, but it sounds good straight thru the website as well.


 
  I LOVE MOG - my number 1 streaming service too (as stated in the piece).  I think their iPad app os SO slick.  Using that w/ the HRT Headstreamer (+CCK or their "host mode adapter") sounds fantastic too!  For me, for travel, now it's the *Audioquest Dragonfly* for my Macbook Pro, and HRT Headstreamer for my iPad! COVERED.  Then ALO's RxMK3-B for my iPod Classic...


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





mikemercer said:


> seriously! its crazy.  I hear they have to get one of the phonostages shipped from Harry Pearson's place for the gig
> (so there are two for the decks).  Boy is he gonna be pissed at me!!!!


 
  Nice to get to play with HP's toy chest!  I have enjoyed his writings for many years.


----------



## mikemercer

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Nice to get to play with HP's toy chest!  I have enjoyed his writings for many years.


 
  Oh my God yes!  As a matter of fact (silly titles aside - and I did work my way up to being his "Equipment Acquisitions & Set-Up Manager" eventually - but I was a teenager) - that was my job for the first 4 years of my Hifi life at TAS!! SMILE.  
   
  It's exactly how I looked at the job!  
  I was like: "What a minute, I get to goto work in a landmark colonial house, full of state-of-the-art stereo equipment, and set it up - and you'll pay me for that"??
   
  My response: F YEAH...


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





mikemercer said:


> Oh my God yes!  As a matter of fact (silly titles aside - and I did work my way up to being his "Equipment Acquisitions & Set-Up Manager" eventually - but I was a teenager) - that was my job for the first 4 years of my Hifi life at TAS!! SMILE.
> 
> It's exactly how I looked at the job!
> I was like: "What a minute, I get to goto work in a landmark colonial house, full of state-of-the-art stereo equipment, and set it up - and you'll pay me for that"??
> ...


 
  My college job was selling audio for a dealer. I used my dorm as a secondary show room. Had the full line of Mordaunt Short speakers and CJ Walker tables in there to play with.. Fun times!


----------



## Alexsander

About two versions AudioQuest DrafonFly:
_*1 version:*_ the volume control offers 64 steps of less than 1dB to –60dB and then mute (–100dB);
_*2 version:*_ used only 60 of those steps;
   
_"With the *first sample of the DragonFly*, a full-scale 24-bit signal actually clipped the bottom halves of the waveform with the computer's volume control set to its maximum, giving a *THD+noise level of 3.8%*. Backing off the control by *one click (–0.17dB) reduced the THD to 2.14%*, by a *second click (–0.34dB) to 0.627%*, and by a *third click (–0.51dB) to 0.054%*, below which the THD+N percentage plateaued. The *second sample didn't clip* with a 0dBFS signal at maximum volume, and the *THD+N was 0.041% rather than 3.8%*."_
http://www.stereophile.com/content/audioquest-dragonfly-usb-da-converter-measurements
   
  interestingly still here it:
_"Basically, it looked as if the running change in production was to implement this suggestion of Rankin's, as the spectrum of the *second DragonFly* sample's output with a full-scale 1kHz signal *at maximum volume was identical to that of the first sample's output set to –0.51dB*"_
   
  but, I not understand: in the first part of test to be said that at the first version is worse even with volume control down: 
   
_("third click *(–0.51dB) to 0.054%*, below which the *THD+N percentage plateaued*")_
_("The second sample didn't clip with a 0dBFS signal at maximum volume, and the *THD+N was 0.041%*")_
   
  Who knows as to define what version is used?
  I got my AudioQuest DF on October 4, but isn't sure that to me sold the last version.


----------



## longbowbbs

I got mine in July when they first came out. it is a terrific device and surely I have the first version. Make sure you give the DF a good 200 hours of burn in and enjoy the show. It will be one of your favorite portable devices.


----------



## bigmarcelo

I just received mine last week... probably version 2 ..... with no burn in, using Sennheisers ie8, IEM, sounds very, very detiled, clear, pretty impressive.... its replacing my Govibe Portuatube + for my work/laptop DAC/AMP ... more portable... not as musical as the govibe, ... but pretty amazing and great price/performance ratio .... so far excellent.. I use it with Amarra... great little combo.... highly recommend it!!


----------



## Alexsander

Hi,
   Maybe who know for best quality upgrade AudioQuest DragonFly how this compatibly with this:
   
   So, first:
   USB Isolator: Analog Devices *ADuM4160* it is possible to use?
_like this:_
http://www.ab-system.hk/index.php?route=product/product&path=73&product_id=63
   
   
   Second:
   If usb isolator works with AQ DF I can use power supply unit (ADuM4160 board has 5VDC USB output to drive the DragonFly).
_like this:_
http://www.ab-system.hk/index.php?route=product/product&path=73&product_id=64
   
   If usb isolator not compatibly with DF, I can use DC power supply with special USB-cable (inside USB cable computer power +5VDC -> was disconnected).
   In power supply unit, in this case, DC output adjust =5VDC? How many VDC it is necessary for the best work DF?


----------



## longbowbbs

I don't think you would need those to improve on the DF sound. Kinda takes away the point of a transportable device.


----------



## Alexsander

I'am using DF for second system and i want, if it's possible, to have maximum sound quality.
  At the moment the system sounds very well !!!
  But if it is possible to improve still, only an external Power Supply Unit and usb-isolator board. This way actually is suitable only for desktop uses. 
_My Setup:_
*Speaker: *_Mordaunt-Short 10i Pearl Edition + modding terminal with Speaker Stand + marble slabs under spikes;_
*Speaker Cable:* _AudioQuest Rocket 44 with AQ Banana Siver/Spade Silver in HF & AudioQuest Rocket 44 with AQ Banana Siver/Banana Silver in LF;_
*Inter Connetor:* _AudioQuest FLX-Mini 3.5mm to Female 2xRCA & AudioQuest Panther with upgrade DBS 72V;_
*Power Cable: *_T+A Power Four with Wattgate Audio Grade 350i Gold;_
*AMP:* _valve amplifier Single Ended e88cc Tesla Gold Pin, 6P43-EPx2, 5C4S inside CARDAS & AudioQuest wire, AudioQuest Silver Solder, Neutrik terminal;_
*Source:* _PC notebook+ foobar 2000 ver0.9.4.4 (Real Time Priority) or Pure Player + fidelizer 2.1 (audiophille mode) for Hi-Res & SACD-image using foobar 2000 last version;_
*HDD:* _Trancend 2Tb + Samsung 1.5Tb;_
*USB-DAC:* _AudioQuest DragonFly_


----------



## longbowbbs

Simple...do not over think this....
   
  Computer>DF via USB out>Headphones.......
   
  MAC/PC does not matter....JRiver/Amarra recommended as software for either OS....
   
  The whole point is quality without all the cables and stuff.....


----------



## Alexsander

Interesting feature in work AQ DF (OS: Windows XP SP3):
   
  If skip “next track”, music plays with little pause (about *0.5-1 sec*) and cut music.
  This delay and *loss of a fragment of music* occurs practically always to *files 44.1kHz* with others (48kHz, 88.2kHz,96kHz happens, not as with 44.1kHz.
  I think that the device is on work with WASAPI first of all, but at me XP probably it occurs because of it.
   
  Players: Foobar 2000 v0.9.4.4, Foobar 2000 v1.1.14a
*Output* in player (only this option is available): *DS* (Direct Sound) AudioQuest DragonFly
  Tried on players:
  XMPlay, Kat Player….. but same result.


----------



## jherbert

Quote: 





alexsander said:


> *Output* in player (only this option is available): *DS* (Direct Sound) AudioQuest DragonFly


 
You may want to install the components for kernel streaming and wasapi in foobar. Once you've done this, you will be able to use these output modes with dragonfly.


----------



## Alexsander

the mode of output WASAPI works on Windows 7. (I use XP SP3)
  Kernel Streaming components in foobar at me are install, but the *KS : AudioQuest DragonFly* option isn't present. (*KS : Realtek HD Audio Output* the built-in sound card is - *YES*)
  I have only *DS : AudioQuest DragonFly *in window "Output Device" Foobar 2000.


----------



## weroflu

is anyone else having a problem with the Df not sitting properly in the usb port?
   
  i had no issue for a  few weeks, but now i get intermittent digital hash every few minutes. holding it tight in the port with my hands fixes the problem. moving it to a different usb port doesn't help. it's most likely a physical connection/looseness issue. but it's almost unuseable now. wrote to AQ and waiting for a reply.


----------



## mikemercer

Quote: 





weroflu said:


> is anyone else having a problem with the Df not sitting properly in the usb port?
> 
> i had no issue for a  few weeks, but now i get intermittent digital hash every few minutes. holding it tight in the port with my hands fixes the problem. moving it to a different usb port doesn't help. it's most likely a physical connection/looseness issue. but it's almost unuseable now. wrote to AQ and waiting for a reply.


 
  I haven't experienced any issues.
   
  So this just started?  I'd reach out to them and see what they say.


----------



## weroflu

it happened just a few times when i first got it, but i chalked it up to improper setup with my linux settings.
   
  then it seemed to work fine for about 2-3 weeks. past week or so the motorboating is getting increasingly worse and worse. if i just raise it up a bit when it's in the usb port the problem goes away. seems like it's super sensitive to any physical movement, even the headphone plug moving will cause the same problem.
   
  but i can't be sure it's a physical problem even though jiggling it around in the port solves the problem it still could be some sort of software or hardware issue. already emailed AQ, i'll see what they say. it may turn out that it's not in fact 100% compatible with some linuxes even though they advertise it as such.


----------



## Currawong

I'd try a different USB port.
   
  I found that the Dragonfly works nicely with my Apple keyboard's USB ports, which was unexpected.


----------



## Alexsander

Problem with a quality output (in foobar2000) in XP is solved!!!! I very happy!!!
  Came on a site *Wavelenght Audio* (Gordon Rankin design) and established the recommended *ASIO*-driver
http://www.usbdacs.com/Windows/Windows.html
http://www.asio4all.com/
  use version 2.10 (2.11 beta version have problem with a output 44.1kHz)


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





weroflu said:


> it happened just a few times when i first got it, but i chalked it up to improper setup with my linux settings.
> 
> then it seemed to work fine for about 2-3 weeks. past week or so the motorboating is getting increasingly worse and worse. if i just raise it up a bit when it's in the usb port the problem goes away. seems like it's super sensitive to any physical movement, even the headphone plug moving will cause the same problem.
> 
> but i can't be sure it's a physical problem even though jiggling it around in the port solves the problem it still could be some sort of software or hardware issue. already emailed AQ, i'll see what they say. it may turn out that it's not in fact 100% compatible with some linuxes even though they advertise it as such.


 
   
  There's another person who reported a problem like this earlier in the thread, that at least they believed it was caused by movement of the device.
   
  As well mine has loosened up both ends (ie. the headphone port wiggles a tiny amount, as does the USB end).  I haven't experienced any functional issues with it, probably at about 500 hours now.  I'm a little bummed this isn't more robust in build quality... it certainly feels like it should be.


----------



## MickeyVee

By any chance, are you using a Mac?  I had the same problem about a month ago with my MacBook Air.  Tried the DF on my MacMini and my HP netbook and it worked fine. It drove me crazy for about a week. It ended up being a software problem on my MBA.  I ended up re-installing ML on my MBA and voila, the problem disappeared.  Go figure.
  Quote: 





weroflu said:


> is anyone else having a problem with the Df not sitting properly in the usb port?
> 
> i had no issue for a  few weeks, but now i get intermittent digital hash every few minutes. holding it tight in the port with my hands fixes the problem. moving it to a different usb port doesn't help. it's most likely a physical connection/looseness issue. but it's almost unuseable now. wrote to AQ and waiting for a reply.


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





judmarc said:


> AQ has said there will be a short flexible "Dragon Tail" extension on sale in the near future to resolve the problem of the DragonFly sticking out from the side of a laptop.


 

 Someone probably already suggested this but if not, something like this should work fine until the DragonTail comes along:
  http://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-Extension-Cable-A-Male-A-Female/dp/B002KNI796/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
  I'm sure the DragonTail will be in a slightly higher price bracket ...


----------



## verber

The Dragon Fly seemed like it didn't insert as far as I would have expected, but I didn't have a problem with it falling out or any sonic issues.  I was used for several weeks this way... but they way it stuck out always had me a bit nervous. I purchased a USB vertical male/female adapter which has worked out nicely.  Now the Dragon Fly sits flush against the side of the Mac and is *just* high enough that the Mac Air sits level on a work surface.
   
  --Mark


----------



## devilsadvocate

Quote: 





usaudio said:


> Someone probably already suggested this but if not, something like this should work fine until the DragonTail comes along:
> http://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-Extension-Cable-A-Male-A-Female/dp/B002KNI796/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
> I'm sure the DragonTail will be in a slightly higher price bracket ...


 
   
  FYI - this is exactly what I'm using and it is working perfectly well.  Not sure why I would upgrade to a DragonTail at all.


----------



## weroflu

im on an hp netbook/linux. already tried all 3 usb ports, same problem with all three. tried a right angle usb adaptor too, that didn't help.


----------



## RUMAY408

usaudio said:


> Someone probably already suggested this but if not, something like this should work fine until the DragonTail comes along:
> http://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-Extension-Cable-A-Male-A-Female/dp/B002KNI796/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I have two main concerns with the dragonfly 1) it is so small, even in its little black pouch, that I will lose it.  I actually lost the device for a day in my computer bag it hung up on the inside of a zippered pocket. 2) the usb connection seems so unstable, even though it works, it just dangles off that usb port.  The mediabridge looks like a great solution I am going to order it now before I break the DAC, usb port, or both.


----------



## Conga

Hello Everyone,
   
  beleive it or not having just discovered the DF i ended up at this thread and read* 500+* posts before fatigue and early signs of madness set in
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




but seriously I could not stop myself reading the mainly glowing tributes to the AQ~DF! most appear to be using this little wonder of the world as a portable device for plane trips and the like.
  But I did notice a few folk were using the DF,at least for a while in there home &/or office set ups!
  Just as a simple??? comparison how would the DF compare to say Firestone,V-dac,IBasso,I noticed that Nu force seemed well beated on most counts.
  Just where in the League table does the DF stand in general terms to it`s near price rivals? hope this is not to stupid a question,I really am not very tech minded but would like to be;
  My family (wife`s) are buying me a tablet (no not viagra) a Tablet PC: could be a Surface an Asus infinity or other.I wish to run my music files through it and am trying to put together a first time rig,which must be compact, and the components must work well together.so any advcie much appreciated.but this thread is mainly about the DF.
   
  best wishes Steve


----------



## Alexdad54

Quote: 





elnero said:


> I'm not sure about Grado dealers there, you could try phoning around to the local Hi-Fi shops. There's also what looks to be the Canadian Grado distributor and Headphone Bar in BC who carry Grado. If none of those work, as mentioned there's eBay or I'm sure you could probably pick one via one of the sponsors like Todd The Vinyl Junkie.


 
  Thanks to the advice I got here, I was able to source a local  AQ DF dealer, National Audio-Video here in Edmonton. Nice bunch of guys and, as a bonus,  they also pointed me towards a local audiophile group, the "Black Hat Desperaudios"...
   
  Got another question though...I was looking at the Mediabridge USB extension cable as well as I don't like the weight of my HP cables on the DF but in Canada it retails through Amazon.ca for C$18.99+C$12.71 shipping!
  There are other cheaper options available (usually in the 3 foot length) but I was wondering if a cheaper cable might have an impact on the sound in any way?


----------



## eddieB

Thanks for the detailed review. This product- regardless of how it actually makes music- is destined to be a success. I have one big concern that I'm sure many share who have used a thumb drive. This fragile device protruding out the side of your computer is a bit like having the car door open while driving... How many of us, whilst listening through headphones, having become lost in a reverie, and suddenly thirsting for another beer, or needing to see a man--- have arisen suddenly our listening post and yanked the headphone jack out of the socket. In the case of the product under review: Exit the snap-Dragonfly. Really, just leaning over to pick something up you could snag the headphone cord. One could also destroy the computer's USB port in the bargain. Having said that, it's laudable that a cable company, AudioQuest, would sell a cable-deprived product, and it really makes sense to eliminate the wire because I can tell you from experience that USB cables effect the sound, for better or worse. Replacing the stock USB cable on my Arcam rPac with a $20 Belkin one measurably increased the volume and had the effect of expanding the sound. In fact, I'm looking for a (cable-less) USB A-B connector plug, and I'll report on my findings. In the meantime, I would urge Dragonfly owner/headphone users to somehow secure the headphone chord short of the DAC- or just don't drink while you DAC.


----------



## xxhaxx

Quote: 





chefano said:


> This is why I really love the DF....


 
  Just buy a right angle usb adapter  as you can see in the picture above the DF sits pretty much flush with your laptop


----------



## Alexdad54

Quote: 





xxhaxx said:


> Just buy a right angle usb adapter  as you can see in the picture above the DF sits pretty much flush with your laptop


 

 I'll try that but I'm still a bit concerned about the combined weight of my Grado adapter plus the cable from my Denon's on the DF and the USB port....


----------



## longbowbbs

Don't be concerned. I ran the adapter for my HD650's and my custom Toxic Cables and the DF and the usb hub on the MBPro had no trouble. Everything held up well over several months.


----------



## vm8444

Hey guys dragonfly to iPad to amp hook up?




Cck into USB hub powered ,
Then USB into dragon fly then what?...


----------



## tzjin

I believe it requires too much power. You would probably need an adapter with a supplemental DC input.


----------



## rapier84

Just got this tiny wonder yesterday, thanks for the recommendations guys!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Got it connected through a unpowered USB hub, no issues.  First impressions, much more details and a well-defined 'layering' of instruments in the mix as compared to what I was using before (X-Fi 5.1 Pro).  Pricey (For something that looks this small!) but worth the outlay


----------



## RUMAY408

Quote: 





rapier84 said:


> Just got this tiny wonder yesterday, thanks for the recommendations guys!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I love the portability of the dragonfly.  I use it at home and at the office via MBAir. I bought a media bridge to connect out of the usb port as it seemed to be  an easy target for an accident.


----------



## eddieB

The 20 USD Belkin cable I substituted for my Arcam rPac's stock cable made an undeniable difference, louder and a sense of greater expansion. Not pushing the Belkin cable, it was just a relatively cheap way to experiment. No cable would probably be the best cable, though, if you can figure out a way to secure the headphone cord short of the DF or go with the USB right angle adapter. I haven't heard the Dragonfly, but I can't imagine a more musically communicative setup for the money than the rPac/Fidelia player combo.


----------



## jeremiah

.


----------



## nc8000

No dac I know of automatically downsamples the signal. You have to let foobar downsample to 96 before sending the signal to the Dragonfly


----------



## Coolsax

I love people think the DF is pricey, because of it's size.... it has a really good async USB dac and a head amp that will drive moderately hard to drive cans decently.... i'd say there's nothing pricey about it.. the Value is there who care's what the size is...


----------



## MickeyVee

I just use this USB extension  Cheap and pretty.. USB >> Cable >> DF >> Grado 1/8 to 1/4 Adaptopr >> HD700.
  http://www.sw-box.com/USB-Extension-Cable-For-Apple-iPhone-And-Other-USB-Enabled-Devices.html
   
  Quote: 





alexdad54 said:


> I'll try that but I'm still a bit concerned about the combined weight of my Grado adapter plus the cable from my Denon's on the DF and the USB port....


----------



## eyal1983

I have a question:
  it is known to be congested with complex classical passages (for example).
  Now, is it the DACs fault, or the AMPs fault?
  meaning.. if i connect it to an ext. amp. will the problem resolve?
   
  thanks!
  /Eyal


----------



## SodaMeiser

its an awesome product but i'd hate to think of the wear and tear on the USB port from its physical design


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





eyal1983 said:


> I have a question:
> it is known to be congested with complex classical passages (for example).
> Now, is it the DACs fault, or the AMPs fault?
> meaning.. if i connect it to an ext. amp. will the problem resolve?
> ...


 
   
  I will never claim to have the golden ears others do around here. After several months with the DF I have not heard what is described as a congested delivery. I was listening to a variety of Mozart concerto's and symphonies yesterday. Pretty complex, lots of nuance and plenty of action all over the orchestra. I could pick out details as I wanted. So maybe I am not understanding what the other posters meant, but it sure sounds good to me.


----------



## eddieB

What is known to be congested, the Dragonfly?


----------



## eddieB

Sorry, I didn't see the following reply, you did mean the Dragonfly. Do try the Arcam rPac, it's got a grip on the rhythm that's exciting, and the detail's there.


----------



## eyal1983

thanks.
  but i still believe that as a great soundcard, that is always attached to the computer.. DF is still the best there is )


----------



## longbowbbs

Sometimes you have to remember the price/value level here. Very strong for the money and the portability.


----------



## Whippler

Liking this so far. So how do enable automatic switching between 44.1 and the others with foobar2000?


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





sodameiser said:


> its an awesome product but i'd hate to think of the wear and tear on the USB port from its physical design


 

 http://www.head-fi.org/t/617241/audioquest-dragonfly-review-affordable-outstanding-tiny-dac-amp/750#post_8765037


----------



## devilsadvocate

Quote: 





sodameiser said:


> its an awesome product but i'd hate to think of the wear and tear on the USB port from its physical design


 
   
  This is why you leave it plugged into an extension cable.


----------



## RUMAY408

Quote: 





whippler said:


> Liking this so far. So how do enable automatic switching between 44.1 and the others with foobar2000?


 
  I had the same issue with Bitperfect if you have a Mac you have to manually change the change the sound preferences and Midi over to Dragonfly output.


----------



## mbllbm

aq dragonfly will be able to properly drive the hi fi man he 500?


----------



## RUMAY408

Quote: 





mbllbm said:


> aq dragonfly will be able to properly drive the hi fi man he 500?


 
  Drives the HE-400 well but the HE-500 might be a different story as it requires more amp.


----------



## OldSkool

IMO, the HE-500 needs more juice than the DF can provide to be driven well. I haven't heard the HE-400, so I can't comment.
   
  However, the DF drives the HD650s very well. Surprisingly well.


----------



## longbowbbs

I am using the DF with the HD650's right now....Beautiful combo!


----------



## verber

I have listened to the dragonfly with a friend's he-500 for a bit.  I have also had a fair amount of time with my hd800 as well as a number of other headphones and some IEMs. The dragonfly could drive all the headphones I tried.  The IEMs sounds fine... I didn't notice the SQ improve by running the dragonfly into an amplifier, but I don't think the dragonfly didn't do a justice to either the he-500 or the hd800.  Adding a headamp gilmore lite to the chain made a significant improvement in the sound quality. Better dynamic range, tighter and more base, more open sound stage.  Pretty must across the board improvement.
   
  --Mark


----------



## MickeyVee

Agreed. When I had my HE400, the DF could drive them OK.  I say OK because the Lyr provided more authority and control on the bottom end. With the DF, it seemed to be missing some life.
  Give that, I think the DF will be underpowered for the HE500. Looking to get the HE500 myself and it will be driven by the Lyr.
  Quote: 





oldskool said:


> IMO, the HE-500 needs more juice than the DF can provide to be driven well. I haven't heard the HE-400, so I can't comment.
> 
> However, the DF drives the HD650s very well. Surprisingly well.


----------



## nxmehta

I'm trying to use my Dragonfly with Linux (Ubuntu 12.04 and Debian Sid both) and I'm seeing a strange problem.  I can select the DAC via pulseaudio, but when the volume is <100% and I plug my quite sensitive IE8 IEMs in the volume is very very low.  When I set the volume == 100%, the sound is so loud that you can literally hear it one room away.  I thought I was going to go deaf for a second there.  I had no idea IEMs could get that loud.  Has anyone seen this problem with the DF and Linux?  Right now the device is completely unusable for me.  I have tested it in Windows 7 x64 and it works fine, but I bought this for my Linux laptop which has atrocious noise on the headphone port.
   
  Are there any special drivers or anything I should be looking into?  If I emailed AudioQuest do you think they would help me out?
   
  EDIT- Well I actually got off my butt and tried to Google hard for the solution, and I found it.  The fix is outlined here: http://askubuntu.com/questions/15069/how-do-i-change-the-way-ubuntu-adjusts-my-volume-mixer-levels
   
  Pulseaudio is such garbage... anyways, if you are using the Dragonfly on Linux MAKE SURE you read about this fix before you blow your ears out.
   
  This tiny device makes my laptop sound amazing.  A+ work here AudioQuest.


----------



## longbowbbs

When in doubt RTFM or Google for info!


----------



## sergiu

In case anyone is interested in possible weak points in case of a drop. My MacBook Air with the DragonFly plugged in dropped from my desk. 
   
   

   
   

   
  As you can see the USB connector is not aligned anymore to the rest of the board, and if you look closely at the 3.5 mm jack the connector on top is not in the right place anymore. 
   
  There is no sound in the right channel anymore. There's not much I can do with it now, I will try to send it back to AudioQuest for repair, if that's possible. 
   
  Also, from the pictures you can see that the black nice finish on the housing is wearing off.
   
  Anyway, just felt like showing you guys the damage


----------



## longbowbbs

Gravity and electronics are a bad combination!


----------



## jherbert

How does the MacBook look like now?


----------



## sergiu

Quote: 





jherbert said:


> How does the MacBook look like now?


 
   
  Didn't happen anything to the Air, just a tiny scratch next to the USB port. I've seen Airs fall from the desk several times actually (not mine, this is the first time), and probably because of their lightweight, they don't really suffer much. Of course, it depends on the angle and height they fall from.


----------



## IanF23

Hi,
  Being super dumb here but can some who has the DF and a pair of MM-1's on a Mac tell me how they have the two setup please.   I want to see how the DF compares when I run it through my MM-1's.  My MM-1's are connected via their normal USB cable. If I connect the Dragonfly and use a mini jack lead to connect to the Aux at the back of the MM-1's I can see both on the Mac's System Preferences Sound but I am stumped on being able to compare the sounds via the Dragonfly's DAC vs MM-1's DAC?  Do I have to actually remove the MM-1's USB cable and simply have the DF mini jack to AUX input on the MM-1's.  If I do this then I get a big reduction  max sound out from the MM-1's?
   
  Thanks for any help.
  Ian


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





ianf23 said:


> Hi,
> Being super dumb here but can some who has the DF and a pair of MM-1's on a Mac tell me how they have the two setup please.   I want to see how the DF compares when I run it through my MM-1's.  My MM-1's are connected via their normal USB cable. If I connect the Dragonfly and use a mini jack lead to connect to the Aux at the back of the MM-1's I can see both on the Mac's System Preferences Sound but I am stumped on being able to compare the sounds via the Dragonfly's DAC vs MM-1's DAC?  Do I have to actually remove the MM-1's USB cable and simply have the DF mini jack to AUX input on the MM-1's.  If I do this then I get a big reduction  max sound out from the MM-1's?
> 
> Thanks for any help.
> Ian


 
   
  You have it right. You would disconnect the MM1 USB and run from the DF to the MM-1 Aux in. Keep the MM-1 Vol at max and use the DF to manage the volume.


----------



## IanF23

Thanks for clarifying.  JUst figureed out how to change the volume of the combined systems.  Thanks once again. Now I can see what the difference is.


----------



## longbowbbs

You are going to love the MM-1'sthriugh the DF. Great quality NFM system.


----------



## BGRoberts

The cap for the USB plug of my Dragonfly was lost.
Anyone know where I can get a replacement?
Thanks!
~BG


----------



## LAmitchell

I'm so glad to find out that it sounds good to the long-time headphiers, 
  because as a newbie, I am so impressed with THE WAY IT LOOKS!
   
  Aesthetics are important to me (as well as good sound), and I love the
  color of the little dragonfly (as well as the little velvet bag it comes with).
   
   
   

   
  And yes, after 3 weeks of listening, I definitely cannot go back
  to listening to just the headphone out on my MBA without it.
   
  (sorry if it seems like I'm just adding to the hype machine,
  but it really feels/sounds/looks like QUALITY gear)


----------



## longbowbbs

Hey, when its good, its good!


----------



## sergiu

Just so you guys know, I've contacted AudioQuest, asking if a repair is possible to my unit, and the answer is no. So, don't break your DragonFly because they will not even try to repair it. I'm sure mine has only a problem with the jack socket, but they did not ask, so it's obvious they don't provide any repairing services.


----------



## BGRoberts

Can you tell me how you contacted them

I'd like to see if a replacement USB cap is available for my lost one.

Thanks!
~BG




sergiu said:


> Just so you guys know, I've contacted AudioQuest, asking if a repair is possible to my unit, and the answer is no. So, don't break your DragonFly because they will not even try to repair it. I'm sure mine has only a problem with the jack socket, but they did not ask, so it's obvious they don't provide any repairing services.


----------



## longbowbbs

I asked about a replacement cap months ago and they did not get back to me. Luckily I found where the cat had swatted it...


----------



## Dsnuts

Quote: 





sergiu said:


> Just so you guys know, I've contacted AudioQuest, asking if a repair is possible to my unit, and the answer is no. So, don't break your DragonFly because they will not even try to repair it. I'm sure mine has only a problem with the jack socket, but they did not ask, so it's obvious they don't provide any repairing services.


 
   
  Here is a little repair for you. It will cost $45.

  Might not look as nice but it should sound very similar. I got one today myself. Very nice on the sound. Ebay is your repair my friend.


----------



## BGRoberts

Unfortunately, it was the person I purchased from's cat that swatted it away.





  Maybe someone who reads this and has a broken Dragonfly would be willing to sell a cap.
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I asked about a replacement cap months ago and they did not get back to me. Luckily I found where the cat had swatted it...


----------



## longbowbbs

I heard a rumor about that recently....


----------



## MickeyVee

In the December Stereophile, the DragonFly was awarded 1) Best Budget Component of the Year (p75) and 2) Computer Audio Component of the Year (p73).  They seem to really like it.
  Quote: "The fact is, the $250 AudioQuest DragonFly sounds at least as good as my $900 [Wavelength Proton] reference converter."


----------



## BGRoberts

I've read no review in the audio mag/website realm that did not gush about how great it is, and what a "value" it is.
  I really like mine.
  ~BG


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





dsnuts said:


> Here is a little repair for you. It will cost $45.
> 
> Might not look as nice but it should sound very similar. I got one today myself. Very nice on the sound. Ebay is your repair my friend.


 
  I've never heard this inexpensive DAC so I can't say it doesn't sound similar to the DragonFly ... but other than sharing the same ESS 9023 DAC chip, the implementation of this DAC vs the DragonFly appears to be much different ...
   
  The DragonFly has:
  - Asynchronous USB
  - 5 regulated power supplies
  - Separate discrete onboard clocks for the different sample rates
  - Separate headphone amp with 64-step _analog_ volume control
  - Support for up to 24/96 (including 24/88 which the Tenor chip is this doesn't)
  - Sample rate indicator
  - Silver-plated contacts
   
  But the prices are also vastly different, so I guess you get what you pay for.


----------



## AUDIOBREEDER

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I asked about a replacement cap months ago and they did not get back to me. Luckily I found where the cat had swatted it...


 
   
  Quote: 





sergiu said:


> Just so you guys know, I've contacted AudioQuest, asking if a repair is possible to my unit, and the answer is no. So, don't break your DragonFly because they will not even try to repair it. I'm sure mine has only a problem with the jack socket, but they did not ask, so it's obvious they don't provide any repairing services.


 
   
  Wow, with customer service like this, I wont ever be being products from this company.
  I know these are available at BB in the US and you can get an accidental plan for it in the US
   
  @Sergiu - Sorry, to hear your plight. Hope you find a way of repairing it!
   
  Luckily I bought the Audioengine amp. and it has taken considerable amount of abuse, to the point of my kid pulling it out from the usb & then flinging it into the air before a well deserved dive catch from me.


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





audiobreeder said:


> Wow, with customer service like this, I wont ever be being products from this company.
> I know these are available at BB in the US and you can get an accidental plan for it in the US
> 
> @Sergiu - Sorry, to hear your plight. Hope you find a way of repairing it!
> ...


 
  It would probably cost more to repair it than a new one, given the manual labor required. 
   
  Sergiu, buy yourself one of these which would likely lessen the possibility of damage:
  http://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-Extension-Cable-A-Male-A-Female/dp/B002KNI796
  AudioQuest has their own version called the DragonTail coming out soon as well.


----------



## RUMAY408

Quote: 





bgroberts said:


> The cap for the USB plug of my Dragonfly was lost.
> Anyone know where I can get a replacement?
> Thanks!
> ~BG


 
  If you need a cap I would buy a  flash drive and use the cap off that.  I bought a media bridge and use it with the dragonfly so that basically serves as the cap for mine.


----------



## LAmitchell

All this love for the DRAGONFLY reminds me of
  2 years ago when there was alot of excitement for
  the Music Fidelity V-DAC.   
   
   

   

   
   
   
  I was just getting into HEAD-FI at the time, so I can't
  remember if it was the same amount of excitement or not.


----------



## longbowbbs

Makes you wonder how small they will get by 2014...


----------



## sergiu

Quote: 





bgroberts said:


> Can you tell me how you contacted them
> I'd like to see if a replacement USB cap is available for my lost one.
> Thanks!
> ~BG


 
   
   
  I used one of the email addresses on their contact page: http://www.audioquest.com/contact/
   
  Quote: 





dsnuts said:


> Here is a little repair for you. It will cost $45.
> 
> Might not look as nice but it should sound very similar. I got one today myself. Very nice on the sound. Ebay is your repair my friend.


 
   
  I'll actually get it repaired somehow, I'm sure it's just the headphone socket because there's nothing else that can be broken, everything else is integrated on the board.
   
  I was also thinking about trying the DacPort as it looks a bit more durable. Haven't decided yet though.


----------



## Currawong

By the way, if you have a Mac with a wired Apple keyboard, it fits neatly into the built-in USB sockets on them. That's a bit safer location to plug it in.


----------



## LAmitchell

I downloaded some 24/192 music last night.
   
  It was cool seeing the dragonfly change to change into PURPLE.
  But, this is my first time checking out hi-res music and I thought
  I was gonna be blown-away....  am I missing something?  
   
  The music sounded more detailed, but I guess I was hoping it
  would be more awesomesauce than it was.


----------



## BGRoberts

Thanks for the link, sergiu!!


----------



## amham

I can confirm that the T3Hub with the CCK works 100% with the iPad 4/Dragonfly combination.  Listening to it now and no issues I can detect.  Of course, without the T3Hub the iPad balks and displays "too much power" warning.


----------



## HeroicPenguin

Still waiting for the Dragontail. Saw a picture of it recently on the AudioQuest Facebook page, but still no indication of its sale. I don't trust the 90 degree USB dongle on my computer too much, bit too loose. I would love a short connector that's flush against the computer and on the Dragonfly...


----------



## RUMAY408

Quote: 





heroicpenguin said:


> Still waiting for the Dragontail. Saw a picture of it recently on the AudioQuest Facebook page, but still no indication of its sale. I don't trust the 90 degree USB dongle on my computer too much, bit too loose. I would love a short connector that's flush against the computer and on the Dragonfly...


 
  You can buy it off a few UK sites it retails around 15 pounds/20 dollars it is a carbon fiber connector


----------



## HeroicPenguin

Quote: 





rumay408 said:


> You can buy it off a few UK sites it retails around 15 pounds/20 dollars it is a carbon fiber connector


 
   
  Interested. Do you have a link? I'm searching right now but not getting anything.
   
  EDIT: Nevermind, found it. Link below if others are interested.
   
  http://www.custom-cable.co.uk/audioquest-dragontail-usb-extension-cable.html
   
  EDIT 2: Looks like the Dragon Tail isn't flush on the DragonFly either... Does anyone know any short cable that would be?
   
  http://www.audioquest.com/resource_tools/highres/dt-in-use-1.jpg
   
  Essentially looking for a short version of this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/3FT-USB-2-0-Extension-Male-to-Female-Connector-Cable-Cord-/310426639695?pt=US_USB_Cables_Hubs_Adapters&hash=item4846de9d4f
   
  OCD I know...


----------



## Whippler

Dragontail would look so much better whit braided cable.


----------



## devilsadvocate

usaudio said:


> It would probably cost more to repair it than a new one, given the manual labor required.
> 
> Sergiu, buy yourself one of these which would likely lessen the possibility of damage:
> http://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-Extension-Cable-A-Male-A-Female/dp/B002KNI796
> ...




x2 on the mediabridge. That's what I use for exactly the same reason - seems like a hard bump is somewhat inevitable sooner or later and that connector is clearly an inherent weak spot.


----------



## LAmitchell

I'm guessing that in about 2-3 years, there will be a new dac
  about the same size as the DragonFly, but..... it will sound
  like a $7000 Weiss Dac.  
   
  I hope!!


----------



## tiestolife

Quote: 





lamitchell said:


> I'm guessing that in about 2-3 years, there will be a new dac
> about the same size as the DragonFly, but..... it will sound
> like a $7000 Weiss Dac.
> 
> I hope!!


 

 How can digital products have a signature sound? I dont see how the bits can be tuned differently...


----------



## amham

That's why it is called Digital to Analogue...the "tuning" is in the analogue conversion.  The output opamps vary drastically in tonal nuance as well as all of the circuity post digital.  Some say the "bits" and subsequent jitter play a large part.  DAC's differ in sound as much as any other electronic component.


----------



## CrystalT

i dont know why a dac in the $200 range is considered "affordable."
   
  affordable is definitely sub-$100.


----------



## longbowbbs

Cantata anyone....


----------



## Alexsander

My project for achievement of the maximum result of quality of sounding froma AQ DragonFly:
   
  TeraDak U9VA Linear Low noise Power Supply + Power Supply A&B Cardas pure copper DC cable 1.5ft + Teralink ADuM 4160 USB Isolator board + AudioQuest DragonFly + AudioQuest FLX-MINI/RCA Adaptor (Male 3.5mm to 2x Female RCA) + AudioQuest Panther 72DBS + Single Ended in triode Valve Amplifier E88CC TESLA NOS gold pin+2x 6P43P-E + 5C4S (1960year) + power cord T+A Power Four 2.0m (all)
   
  OS: XP-SP3+Fidelizer 2.1 + Real Time Priority for player + driver ASIO4ALL (224 samle), players: Foobar2000 ver.0.9.4.4f for 44.1kHz & Hi-Res+SACD image: Foobar 2000 ver.1.1.14a
   
   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   
   
  http://www.ab-system.hk/index.php?route=product/product&path=73&product_id=64
  http://www.ab-system.hk/index.php?route=product/product&path=73&product_id=173
  http://www.ab-system.hk/index.php?route=product/product&path=73&product_id=63


----------



## RUMAY408

Quote: 





alexsander said:


> My project for achievement of the maximum result of quality of sounding froma AQ DragonFly:
> 
> TeraDak U9VA Linear Low noise Power Supply + Power Supply A&B Cardas pure copper DC cable 1.5ft + Teralink ADuM 4160 USB Isolator board + AudioQuest DragonFly + AudioQuest FLX-MINI/RCA Adaptor (Male 3.5mm to 2x Female RCA) + AudioQuest Panther 72DBS + Single Ended in triode Valve Amplifier E88CC TESLA NOS gold pin+2x 6P43P-E + 5C4S (1960year) + power cord T+A Power Four 2.0m (all)
> 
> ...


 
  Nice DIY, how does it sound?


----------



## Currawong

I tried the Dragonfly out of my Vaunix USB hub (which isolates and provides much better power) and didn't notice any huge improvement. I reckon it'd be more worth it to spend the money on a better DAC than trying to improve the Dragonfly.


----------



## Alexsander

A power for DAC is a basis of a very good sound! (as well as a *full galvanic isolation* from the computer)
  and not only on a power, but also an information channel of transfer of D+/D- and really full disconnection from the computer earth
   
  Sounding became more analog, deep, detailed and smooth at the same time, as a whole a sound from more expensive level.
  I in the main system have two DAC's: Benchmark DAC-1 and DPA Enlightenment DX32 also I can claim that the AQ DragonFly sounds now at the level of these devices.
  For the second system amazing result (much more, than I expected to receive)!!!
  
 p.s.
 Vaunix USB-Hub the first: this device is not include ADum4160, second: power Vaunix  12-24W AC-DC wall adator in my setup really Low noise (include Schottky diode) PSU.


----------



## fischerb

Very interesting experiment.

Has anyone tried this nice little DAC with Brainwavz HM5 or Fischer 003, or any clones of these kind? 

I would really like to know if it is worth for my relative cheap HM5. I want just to get straight the best DAC/AMP for my headphones so I could worry less and just listen to the music. 

Dragonfly looks fantastic in any aspect for me.


----------



## LAmitchell

I love this little DAC.
   
  After listening to it everyday for a month, 
  I did an A/B with my MacBook's HEADPHONE OUT (built in dac).
  WOW, what a huge difference: The Dragonfly is so
  much more FOCUSED, and just generally more fun
  to listen to for longer periods of time.  
   
  Now I'm curious to know, having very little DAC experience,
  how much would I have to spend on my next DAC so
  that there would be an immediate "WOW!!" experience
  going from DRAGONFLY to the new dac? And what would
  those differences be?
   
  I


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





lamitchell said:


> I love this little DAC.
> 
> After listening to it everyday for a month,
> I did an A/B with my MacBook's HEADPHONE OUT (built in dac).
> ...


 
   
  We need a can or worms emoticon....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I would peruse the source forums and get a feel for the variety of options....Single ended, balanced, Chip variety, USB or not, etc.....Let the games begin!


----------



## verber

Quote: 





lamitchell said:


> I love this little DAC.
> After listening to it everyday for a month,
> I did an A/B with my MacBook's HEADPHONE OUT (built in dac).
> WOW, what a huge difference: The Dragonfly is so
> ...


 
   
  The next step up in a DAC will not be as much of a difference as going from the MacBook audio out to the Dragonfly.  The MacBook audio is truly terrible.  Even my daughter who doesn't care about SQ notices the difference.  A better DAC will give you a tighter bass, more detail, a better sense of space.
   
  --Mark


----------



## NorthernAvengeR

Any news on the Bumblebee? I haven't heard anything. I didn't dream it up did I?
  Sorry, not really on topic, but I didn't want to start a new thread.


----------



## LAmitchell

Quote: 





verber said:


> The next step up in a DAC will not be as much of a difference as going from the MacBook audio out to the Dragonfly.  The MacBook audio is truly terrible.  Even my daughter who doesn't care about SQ notices the difference.  A better DAC will give you a tighter bass, more detail, a better sense of space.
> 
> --Mark


 
  Thank you Mark, that pretty much quells my curiosity for a while.  Now if you had said going from the Dragonfly to a new Dac would be mind-blowing, my bank account would be crying right now.


----------



## nc8000

Next step up can be mindblowing but then your bank account WILL cry. At the last Danish meet I heard a truly mindblowing dac compared to anything I have previously heard but the pricetag was over USD10,000.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





lamitchell said:


> Thank you Mark, that pretty much quells my curiosity for a while.  Now if you had said going from the Dragonfly to a new Dac would be mind-blowing, my bank account would be crying right now.


 
   
  The .01% of head-fier's that are the ultra ears group might be able to justify the big $$ DAC's for themselves. For me, once I got above about $1500 USD I am not sure I am able to really discern the difference. (40 years of metal might do that..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )  At that point you begin to reach the law of diminishing returns. Does it get better? Yes, is it "Mindblowing"? No, it is subtle. So, should you drop another 2X or more to get "Subtle? Your decision.
   
  Considering the great review's that are being generated by the DF from TAS, Stereophile, HiFi+ (Cover photo's on all mags!) and the like it has clearly hit a sweet spot for the audio elite. No small thing given their picky demeanor and access to about anything they want.
   
  I have certainly enjoyed it now for several months. Sometimes for fun I will put it in the loop on the main system and I certainly enjoy it even with the primary gear.


----------



## devilsadvocate

crystalt said:


> i dont know why a dac in the $200 range is considered "affordable."
> 
> affordable is definitely sub-$100.




This is head-fi and affordable is definitely a relative term. $250 is definitely a reasonable candidate for that designation. You're talking about a place where people regularly spend $500+ for headphones and amps.


----------



## nc8000

Yeah $250 is very acceptable for something that is both a very good dac and a perfectly fine amp for most real world headphones. There is allways going to be a premium price for something this small as well


----------



## devilsadvocate

nc8000 said:


> Yeah $250 is very acceptable for something that is both a very good dac and a perfectly fine amp for most real world headphones. There is allways going to be a premium price for something this small as well




Personally, size is worth a huge premium to me. If it had a built in battery so I could use it with my S3 it would be perfect.


----------



## orkney

I'm using mine to drive my W3000NVs -- pretty nice match, really. Very immediate and focused sound. 
   
  o


----------



## Nirvana1000

$250 seems expensive for what it does.Though i have not heard it yet.Checking out FAQs on the website.You have to configure the sample rate in your PC according to the music data sample rate.Apparently J River and Foobar does it automatically.Windows Vista does not support it.Windows 7 does not support 88.2 kHz.Occasional and/or consistant clicks or drop outs with Windows 8 and RT.Microsoft is working toward a fix.


----------



## nc8000

You find $250 to be expensive for a good dac and headphone amp ?


----------



## Whippler

So any guide how to make the sample rate switch automatically with foobar? I'm running this of windows 8, seems to work fine when its connected. Tough right after connecting it to windows 8 pc there is some clicking, but it goes away fast.


----------



## nc8000

For me sample rate switches automatically in foobar (44.1, 48, 88.2 and 96) but I'm on Win7-64, don't know it that makes any difference. I use WASAPI (push) and the latest version has fixed the problem where the buffer had to be set to the minimum so I now run with a buffer of 3380 ms. If I play 176.4 or 192 I have to use the sample rate converter and downsample to 88.2 or 96 as the Dragonfly don't support >96


----------



## fischerb

Looking forward for Win 8 users and their foobar with KS plugin usability.


----------



## breadvan

Could have missed this in the thread, but can anyone advise me on the power consumption of the Dragonfly, especially connected to a portable device such as mobile phone? Just curious if it would seriously shortened battery life, thanks.


----------



## Whippler

I got the sampling rate swithing to work, tried multiple output options in foobar, wasapi(push), and (event). KS, ASIO4ALL, where i couldnt select dragonfly as my audio divice for some reason.

Got some ratling and few soundproblems with wasapi (push), and KS. Wasapi (event) seems to be sounding smooth. And yes, i'm runing windows 8.



nc8000 said:


> If I play 176.4 or 192 I have to use the sample rate converter and downsample to 88.2 or 96 as the Dragonfly don't support >96



 Dragonfly should downsample 192 on its own, @least that's what it says on the box.


----------



## nc8000

Quote: 





breadvan said:


> Could have missed this in the thread, but can anyone advise me on the power consumption of the Dragonfly, especially connected to a portable device such as mobile phone? Just curious if it would seriously shortened battery life, thanks.


 
   
  I think it has been mentioned that it draws too much power to work with smartphones and tablets. 2 new versions are in the works for 2013 for use with Android and Apple devices.
   
  Quote: 





whippler said:


> Dragonfly should downsample 192 on its own, @least that's what it says on the box.


 
   
  I'm sure it didn't do that for me but I'll have to check again when next I'm home as I don't have any >96 music on my pc's local drive.


----------



## Duncan

Interestingly the Dragonfly is picked up by my Note 2, can confirm that as speaker audio is disabled, but it does quirky things - no audio, and playback is at 2x speed... consider it a loss for that...
   
  However, I have to say, only a few minutes of use in (only unpacked it a few moments ago) that this really is Impressing me! - is driving my AKG Q701s nicely...
   
  ...Now to find a 6.5 to 3.5mm adapter to try the HD800s ;o)


----------



## verber

Quote: 





> ..Now to find a 6.5 to 3.5mm adapter to try the HD800s ;o)


 
   
  Dragonfly is able to drive the HD800 to quite  adequate volume, but it obviously falls short compare to even  moderate priced headphone amps designed for full size headphone such as the Headamp GLite.
   
  --mark


----------



## breadvan

Quote: 





nc8000 said:


> ...... 2 new versions are in the works for 2013 for use with Android and Apple devices.


 
   
  That IS very good news, thanks.


----------



## Duncan

Verber...
   
  Yes, I did think that'd probably be the case (only so much oomph you can squeeze out of a small package!) - I may try the DF in line out 'mode', and connect to my Burson - just to see if it is the amp, or the DAC section of the Burson that makes the HD800s sound thin [in my opinion of course]...
   
  ...I hope that the new product line isn't too low powered (seeing that we're going from a 500ma bus to a 150ma one...)
   
  ...Either way I think i'll be signing myself up ;o)


----------



## GSARider

verber said:


> Dragonfly is able to drive the HD800 to quite  adequate volume, but it obviously falls short compare to even  moderate priced headphone amps designed for full size headphone such as the Headamp GLite.
> 
> --mark




Having looked on the Audioquest website, I can't find any reference o the Dragonfly having an amp function?


----------



## verber

Quote: 





gsarider said:


> Having looked on the Audioquest website, I can't find any reference o the Dragonfly having an amp function?


 
   
  They state:
   

 Drives Headphones Directly
 Variable Output Drives Powered Speakers or Power Amp
   
  This combination indicates there is an amp. In fact, if you would read what has been written here, or on the website, one of the import features is that the "volume control" under OSX (maybe windows, I haven't paid attention) works in the analog rather than the digital domain when playing through the dragonfly which is a good thing.
   
  --Mark


----------



## RUMAY408

Quote: 





gsarider said:


> Having looked on the Audioquest website, I can't find any reference o the Dragonfly having an amp function?


 
The DF amp is 150mW out @ ~=12ohms, 2.0VRMS


----------



## GSARider

Thanks chaps.


----------



## nc8000

Quote: 





whippler said:


> Dragonfly should downsample 192 on its own, @least that's what it says on the box.


 
   
  Just tried again with some 192khz music and it does not work. This is what the faq at Audioquests web site tells on the subject:
   
*I purchased high-resolution music files at 24-bit/176.4kHz or 24-bit/192kHz. Can I play these files using my DragonFly? *
 If you have purchased a file that has a higher sample rate than 96kHz you need to configure your computer to send DragonFly audio data at a resolution no greater than 96kHz, and for the best performance the sample rate you choose should be exactly half the sample rate of the file you’re playing. For example, if you purchased a 24-bit/176.4kHz file 88.2kHz should be selected, whereas if you purchased a 24/192kHz file 96kHz should be selected. Directly divisible sample rates prevent the computer from doing sonically degrading, complex math in its conversions and allows DragonFly to sound its best.


----------



## MickeyVee

It seems like the DragonTail is available.  I was just at at the audio shop where I purchased my DragonFly and asked about the DT - they ordered one for me and hopefully I'll have it soon. 
  For a second system, the plan is MacBook Air > DragonTail > DragonFly > GoldenGate cable > Schiit Magni >> Senn HD700 or v-moda M100 or the DragonFly directly into the M100.
   
  Update - false alarm - got a note from my sales guy, apparently they're on the way to the distributor - not at retail here yet.


----------



## longbowbbs

Good news on the DT... Time to make a dealer call!


----------



## kryten123

Just got a Dragonfly and it doesn't seem to recognise formats properly.
  The Dragonfly doesnt change colour whether I play a 16bit CD\FLAC or a 24bit track.
   
  If I set the Sound Default Format to 24\96000 - it stays Magenta whether its a CD or a 24bit HiRes file
   
  If I set it to 24\44100 it stays Green no matter what type of file I play.
   
  Am I doing something wrong or is there a problem?


----------



## longbowbbs

The system software sets the data rate. The DF will not change it automatically.


----------



## kryten123

I must have misread the information.
  I was under the impression that as the music software eg Foobar played the different formats, the DF changed colour to indicate the data rate it was converting.


----------



## nc8000

If you use direct sound in foobar it will use your Windows sound preference for output and sample rate convert to that regardless of your file If you use wasapi or asio the signal bypases Windows and gets send directly to the Dragonfly which then changes color accordingly. Btw remember that bitdepth (16/24) does not affect the color, it is sample rate (44/48/88/96) that does


----------



## kryten123

Quote: 





nc8000 said:


> If you use direct sound in foobar it will use your Windows sound preference for output and sample rate convert to that regardless of your file If you use wasapi or asio the signal bypases Windows and gets send directly to the Dragonfly which then changes color accordingly. Btw remember that bitdepth (16/24) does not affect the color, it is sample rate (44/48/88/96) that does


 
  How do I use Wasapi or asio to bypass windows 7? The songs being played change sample rates when changing from 16 to 24 bit


----------



## longbowbbs

Using JRiver, I use the Wasapi event style setting to manage the Bit Rate being sent through the DF.


----------



## kryten123

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Using JRiver, I use the Wasapi event style setting to manage the Bit Rate being sent through the DF.


 
  Thanks - that gives me a starting point to investigate Wasapi further.


----------



## kryten123

Quote: 





kryten123 said:


> Thanks - that gives me a starting point to investigate Wasapi further.


 
   
  Looks like I have sorted in it MediaMonkey and now all 3 sample rates are detected...now I can go to bed.


----------



## longbowbbs




----------



## RUMAY408

Quote: 





kryten123 said:


> Looks like I have sorted in it MediaMonkey and now all 3 sample rates are detected...now I can go to bed.


 
  Glad to hear that mediaMonkey set things straight.
   
      FYI for those who use a Mac one has to change the Audio Midi setting manually when using the DF with iTunes.  I have Bitperfect and this also required a manual set up as well. Pure Music also required manual adjustments plus handshaking.  Amarra works seamlessly with the DF and changes the bit settings automatically as you play through iTunes.


----------



## nc8000

kryten123 said:


> How do I use Wasapi or asio to bypass windows 7? The songs being played change sample rates when changing from 16 to 24 bit




You have to download the plugins from the foobar website and the select it in Settings Output. Wasapi is the simplest to get working. Asio requires other bits of software as well


----------



## fischerb

nc8000 said:


> You have to download the plugins from the foobar website and the select it in Settings Output. Wasapi is the simplest to get working. Asio requires other bits of software as well


   
   

  Do you notice a difference in sound between these two plugins?


----------



## nc8000

As wasapi works fine for me I have not invested the time required to get asio up and running so can't comment


----------



## fischerb

Quote: 





nc8000 said:


> As wasapi works fine for me I have not invested the time required to get asio up and running so can't comment


 
  I have that kind of a long relationship with KS so it could be an unconciousness worry about this relationship breaking up. That thought bothered me a little, I think now it's gone


----------



## Duncan

Hmm...
   
  I wish my DF didn't hum when connected to an amp...
   
  To make sure i'm not being dumb, it is simply a case of putting the Windows volume up to max to activate the line out mode, yes?


----------



## gefski

I can confirm my DF into Valhalla has no hum, dead quiet. Windows volume set at max.


----------



## fischerb

Quote: 





gefski said:


> I can confirm my DF into Valhalla has no hum, dead quiet. Windows volume set at max.


 
  How much DF is sounding better with this AMP?


----------



## ElephantTLK

Is Dragonfly comparable to Xonar, Auzentech X-Fi Forte/Prelude, Sound Blaster Z? Is sound on same level or are hi-fi soundcards better?


----------



## longbowbbs

It would depend on the card as to which may be better. Remember the form factor.....This is a portable unit. Sound cards are not generally portable.


----------



## ElephantTLK

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> It would depend on the card as to which may be better. Remember the form factor.....This is a portable unit. Sound cards are not generally portable.


 
  Yes i know this is a portable unit. But if we compare sound quality? So it is not better than Xonar Essence series or Sound blaster Z series?


----------



## mbllbm

Currently listening to on the set DF +  ultrasone  8th edition I'm happy but I am thinking of buying  LCD2 or LCD3, which of these two will be better harmonize with the dragonfly?


----------



## gefski

fischerb said:


> How much DF is sounding better with this AMP?


 Significantly better. Air, bloom, texture. I bought the DF for portable use. For desktop, I usually use the Bifrost into Valhalla. For no good reason, I switched to DF into Valhalla and listened to it while doing other things, then found I kept stopping and listening to whole albums. Not scientific, but always a good sign. So I'm thinking the DF is OK as a portable amp but way better than OK as a dac.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





gefski said:


> Significantly better. Air, bloom, texture. I bought the DF for portable use. For desktop, I usually use the Bifrost into Valhalla. For no good reason, I switched to DF into Valhalla and listened to it while doing other things, then found I kept stopping and listening to whole albums. Not scientific, but always a good sign. So I'm thinking the DF is OK as a portable amp but way better than OK as a dac.


 
   
  +1 on this...Great value for the DAC portion...


----------



## jltaser

Quote: 





elephanttlk said:


> Is Dragonfly comparable to Xonar, Auzentech X-Fi Forte/Prelude, Sound Blaster Z? Is sound on same level or are hi-fi soundcards better?


 
   
  I have the Dragonfly and Xonar Essence STX in my possession and have heard the Auzentech's X-fi Forte and at a friend's house.
   
  The dragonfly is on par if not better than the Essence STX.  The Auzentech's Forte is not as good as the the STX or dragonfly.  
  Your particular headphone model will determine which source sounds better.
  My AKG K702 sounds better on the STX whereas my Sennheiser HD600 sounds better on the Dragonfly.  It's all about the synergy!


----------



## longbowbbs

DF and 650's is a very nice combo!


----------



## LAmitchell

I love my little DRAGONFLY....
   
   

   
   
  so I spent some time listening to NORAH JONES
  comparing 24/96 to REDBOOK.  And YES, there is
  a difference, but not thaaaaat much to where I would
  want to use the extra disk space to store Hi-Res audio.
   
   

   
   
  Again, YES there was a DIFFERENCE (her voice 
  sounded fuller and closer to the mic, I could hear a
  little more texture on instruments). But REALLY???
  Do I want to spend more money on hi-res music 
  and worry about switching to the right settings, blah blah blah
   
  it makes me think of watching a 3-D movie.... it's kinna cool
  at first, but after about 20 minutes it's just a hassle.
   
  DRAGONFLY = great quality product
   
  HI RES MUSIC = gimmick


----------



## gidgiddonihah

I am new to the whole audiophile world but I have to say I am extremely pleased with mine.  When my long time audiophile dad listened it through my HD25-II's he was blown away.  I am hearing things in tracks that I never heard before.  Even Spotify has greatly improved. Amazing! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Just in case people were wondering: to get the colors changing correctly in Windows you need to be using WASAPI (Wouldn't work until I set it to 24 bit)/Kernel Streaming/etc.  Otherwise Windows will upscale to the quality you set it to and the color will be stuck there because it doesn't know better.
   
  (Edit) Does anyone know what the buffer length in foobar does?


----------



## awtryau89

I just snagged a DF from Best Buy for $169 plus tax. They had an Open Box and they are giving an additional 20% off all Open Box items. I couldn't pass it up. Not sure how long the extra 20% off lasts. I would check all the Best Buys with Magnolias in your area and see if they have had any returns. I'm listening to it now and its worth 3 times what I played. Wow this sounds good!!!


----------



## DannyBai

FYI - I ordered the DragonTail from an online retailer called ListenUp.com for $16.95 with free UPS ground shipping and it shipped today.  I assume it's only free for US residents.


----------



## fischerb

Quote: 





awtryau89 said:


> I just snagged a DF from Best Buy for $169 plus tax. They had an Open Box and they are giving an additional 20% off all Open Box items. I couldn't pass it up. Not sure how long the extra 20% off lasts. I would check all the Best Buys with Magnolias in your area and see if they have had any returns. I'm listening to it now and its worth 3 times what I played. Wow this sounds good!!!


 
  Will you post a link, please? I can't find it. Thanks


----------



## awtryau89

Quote: 





fischerb said:


> Will you post a link, please? I can't find it. Thanks


 
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/AudioQuest+-+DragonFly+Digital+Audio+Converter+-+Black/5426026.p?id=1218657483207&skuId=5426026&st=audioquest%20dragonfly&cp=1&lp=1
   
  I found mine while in store but here is the link anyway. It was an open box marked down to $211 then I got an additional 20% off the open box price. They were trying to clear all of their open box stuff out in Magnolia and in the home theater dept. You are going to have to search to see who has it in stock then call and see if they happen to have an open box model.


----------



## DanBa

Quote: 





duncan said:


> Interestingly the Dragonfly is picked up by my Note 2, can confirm that as speaker audio is disabled, but it does quirky things - no audio, and playback is at 2x speed... consider it a loss for that...
> 
> However, I have to say, only a few minutes of use in (only unpacked it a few moments ago) that this really is Impressing me! - is driving my AKG Q701s nicely...
> 
> ...Now to find a 6.5 to 3.5mm adapter to try the HD800s ;o)


 
   
  The Dragonfly can work with the Android-powered Samsung Galaxy Note II:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/1035#post_8959237
   
  music stored on Galaxy Note II > USB Audio Recorder PRO > digital USB audio out  >> Dragonfly USB DAC >> amp >> headphones


----------



## awtryau89

Quote: 





danba said:


> The Dragonfly can work with the Android-powered Samsung Galaxy Note II:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/1035#post_8959237
> 
> music stored on Galaxy Note II > USB Audio Recorder PRO > digital USB audio out  >> Dragonfly USB DAC >> amp >> headphones


 
  I wonder if the Dragonfly would work with the Samsung ChromeBook. I have been looking at one of them and really like it.


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Quote: 





awtryau89 said:


> I wonder if the Dragonfly would work with the Samsung ChromeBook. I have been looking at one of them and really like it.


 
   
  I was actually wondering that myself.  I want a more mobile system than my bulky XPS laptop and the DF.  If it does work the only problem with it is it doesn't have foobar...


----------



## DimitrisZ

Quote: 





lamitchell said:


> I love this little DAC.
> 
> After listening to it everyday for a month,
> I did an A/B with my MacBook's HEADPHONE OUT (built in dac).
> ...


 
   
  If you want to scream "WOW" while your jaw reaches your shoes, try this: http://www.musicarch.net/weiss-medea/
   
  Some consider this the best DAC available today..


----------



## kryten123

Quote: 





nc8000 said:


> You have to download the plugins from the foobar website and the select it in Settings Output. Wasapi is the simplest to get working. Asio requires other bits of software as well


 
  I've tried Foobar with the plugin for Wasapi but 24bit files stutter during playback, where they don't with Mediamonkey...so I'll probably stick with Mediamonkey.
   
  Now...to get the DF working with my Nexus 7 tablet....


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





kryten123 said:


> I've tried Foobar with the plugin for Wasapi but 24bit files stutter during playback, where they don't with Mediamonkey...so I'll probably stick with Mediamonkey.
> 
> Now...to get the DF working with my Nexus 7 tablet....


 
  JRiver does a great job of managing things...


----------



## nc8000

Quote: 





kryten123 said:


> I've tried Foobar with the plugin for Wasapi but 24bit files stutter during playback, where they don't with Mediamonkey...so I'll probably stick with Mediamonkey.
> 
> Now...to get the DF working with my Nexus 7 tablet....


 
   
  With previous versions of the foobar wasapi plugin you had to set the buffer to the minimum size to avoid the stutter (this seemed to be a problem with all async dacs). With the latest version of the plugin I no longer have that problem.


----------



## monster7

hello all, sorry that i have a terchnical question after i buy dragonfly, very appreciate if someone can help me
   
   
 the manual told me to set 24 bit, 44.1kHz in windows
 but it can play some pink noise only
 i need to set to 48kHz to be normal sound, is there any method i can use 44.1kHz?
  
 and also, when i used my old dac, i can use wasapi component in foobar2000, also 44.1kHz
 but i cannot use it in dragonfly
  
 "Unrecoverable playback error: Unsupported stream format: 44100 Hz / 16-bit / 2 channels"
  
 what can i do? thanks


----------



## nc8000

I don't know. I'm on Win7-64 and have my Windows sound preferences set to 24/96. I use the latest version of foobar and wasapi plug-in and it plays 16/44, 16/48, 24/44, 24/48, 24/88 and 24/96 all in 2 channels with no problem and the Dragonfly changes color accordingly. If I play 5.1 files or 24/176 or 24/192 I have to use the apropriate dsp plugins to downsamle or convert to 2 channels. I run the player apps volume control at max and use the Windows volume control to adjust the volume


----------



## santtosz

hello, ive never had a DAC o even an AMP, i just bought a pair of Sennheiser Momentums 1 week ago, and i have a macbook pro 15", i would hear a HUGE difference in my itunes ALAC songs? or it is not worth the 250 dollars? thank you


----------



## GSARider

Opinion seems divided on the amp / dac route for Momentum's ..personally I can't hear a huge difference, they were designed for use straight to your music player of choice.


----------



## santtosz

thank you man, im going to keep them that way then


----------



## LAmitchell

Quote: 





dimitrisz said:


> If you want to scream "WOW" while your jaw reaches your shoes, try this: http://www.musicarch.net/weiss-medea/
> 
> Some consider this the best DAC available today..


 
  ahhhhhhhhhh!!! so much $$$$$$$$$, would love to hear it someday though. thanks for the heads up DimitrisZ.


----------



## LAmitchell

Quote: 





santtosz said:


> hello, ive never had a DAC o even an AMP, i just bought a pair of Sennheiser Momentums 1 week ago, and i have a macbook pro 15", i would hear a HUGE difference in my itunes ALAC songs? or it is not worth the 250 dollars? thank you


 
  Congrats on those Momentums, would love to get my hands on a pair sometime.  Here's a thought: enjoy them straight out of your MBP's headphone jack for about 6 months (so you can really get a feel for the sound - which will be good) and then when ready to appreciate the next level of sound, try the dragonfly. If I had bought my dragonfly at the same time as buying a good set of headphones, I wouldn't have been able to really appreciate each (headphone and DAC) for what they do.
   
  Just a thought, that's all. I'm new to this hobby too!
   
  LAmitchell
   
  p.s. man, those Momentums are beautiful!


----------



## barbes

Quote: 





santtosz said:


> hello, ive never had a DAC o even an AMP, i just bought a pair of Sennheiser Momentums 1 week ago, and i have a macbook pro 15", i would hear a HUGE difference in my itunes ALAC songs? or it is not worth the 250 dollars? thank you


 
  You'll hear a big difference.  Both the DAC and the amp sections are dramatically better than the Macbook's.  I gave the DF to my nephew for Christmas and he heard a big difference just with his walking-around earbuds.


----------



## GSARider

I have an E17 + E09K that I use quite a bit. With the Amperiors & IE80's that I also own, sound is dramatically improved on both - say between 50 to 60%, yet with the Momentum's there's maybe a 20% difference. Now again all these things are subjective, however I'd expect similar results from any DAC / AMP. 
   
  My conclusion, as well as other users, is that the Momentum's do not need amplifying or a separate dac in order to sound good, if you already have one, then great - use it. If you don't, shelling out 2/3 (or more) of the cost of the headphones will not give a huge difference in sound.


----------



## USAudio

Anyone else have a DragonTail yet?  Any thoughts on design and quality of construction?


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Quote: 





usaudio said:


> Anyone else have a DragonTail yet?  Any thoughts on design and quality of construction?


 
   
  I'm wondering if its worth it.  Should be the same since its all digital right?  Or should I just pick up a 5$ cable at Amazon?
   
  (Edit) The only place I can find it sold is ListenUp.  Anyone ever ordered from them?


----------



## DannyBai

Quote: 





gidgiddonihah said:


> I'm wondering if its worth it.  Should be the same since its all digital right?  Or should I just pick up a 5$ cable at Amazon?
> 
> (Edit) The only place I can find it sold is ListenUp.  Anyone ever ordered from them?


 
  I ordered mine from them.  It's due to arrive on Wed.


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Quote: 





dannybai said:


> I ordered mine from them.  It's due to arrive on Wed.


 
   
  Let us know how it goes please!


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





gidgiddonihah said:


> Let us know how it goes please!


 

 I have one, ordered through ListenUp.  ListenUp was fine but I was disappointed with the DragonTail's quality unfortunately.
  $17 is inexpensive for an AudioQuest product but I expected more.  The DragonFly represents such an excellent value product, I was hoping for more of the same.
  It still has a sizable gap between the DragonFly and DragonTail, I wish they had extended the DragonTail housing to close that gap.
  The cable itself seems generic and inexpensive.
  There are some rough mold marks near where the cable enters the DragonTail housings.
  To be honest, I think the Mediabridge product is better made and works fine, even though it wasn't made from secret alloys to block rays harmful to audio from the planet "Distorton" ...
   
  http://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-USB-Extension-Cable-A-Female/dp/B002KNI796/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1357067488&sr=8-1
   
  Maybe I just received a bad early unit.  Other DragonTail owners, please let us know if you have the same or different observations.


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Just bought the small Mediabridge for my laptop and the 6' one for my desktop from Amazon.


----------



## RUMAY408

Quote: 





usaudio said:


> I have one, ordered through ListenUp.  ListenUp was fine but I was disappointed with the DragonTail's quality unfortunately.
> $17 is inexpensive for an AudioQuest product but I expected more.  The DragonFly represents such an excellent value product, I was hoping for more of the same.
> It still has a sizable gap between the DragonFly and DragonTail, I wish they had extended the DragonTail housing to close that gap.
> The cable itself seems generic and inexpensive.
> ...


 
  Hard to believe the dragontail is so cheap some of their other cables are high quality and very expensive.  The DF for what it does is very reasonably priced and a quality product.  Early on I bought a cheap media bridge off Amazon and it works perfectly well.  I see little reason given above to go out and buy the dragontail.


----------



## 329161

I've asked this elsewhere but, would this thing work with an Android device outputting audio via usb?


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





rumay408 said:


> Hard to believe the dragontail is so cheap some of their other cables are high quality and very expensive.  The DF for what it does is very reasonably priced and a quality product.  Early on I bought a cheap media bridge off Amazon and it works perfectly well.  I see little reason given above to go out and buy the dragontail.


 
  I was surprised and disappointed.  I have some other AudioQuest cables and the quality is much better.  Like I said, maybe I just got a bad example so anyone else with one on hand please chime in.  It's made in China.


----------



## tzjin

Quote: 





dcfac73 said:


> I've asked this elsewhere but, would this thing work with an Android device outputting audio via usb?


 
   
  Someone earlier said it required too much power, but should work with a powered hub. Audioquest is coming out with another version for Android later this year.


----------



## JMcMasterJ

I just got a dragontail and also noticed the weird gap issue. Seems like a design flaw. Also, the cable is too stiff and short for my use


----------



## jfas521

Need some advice. I am currently shopping for a headphone amp/DAC to pair with my Sennheiser's HD650's. Have a local audio store that suggested this product and the Music Fidelity's V-CAN II headphone amp. If I buy this do I even need to use a seperate headphone amp?


----------



## awtryau89

What do you guys think of this:
   
   
http://www.amazon.com/iLuv-4-Port-USB-Hub-iCB709WHT/dp/B00703BLQ2
   
  I have one of these I use for my Macbook Air. I don't think I am sacrificing any quality and it works better for me than a Dragontail would because of the need for more USB ports. I have been using my DF with it for a while and then all this talk of the tail got me wondering if I could do better.


----------



## Keevs

Quote: 





jfas521 said:


> Need some advice. I am currently shopping for a headphone amp/DAC to pair with my Sennheiser's HD650's. Have a local audio store that suggested this product and the Music Fidelity's V-CAN II headphone amp. If I buy this do I even need to use a seperate headphone amp?


 
  The DragonFly drives the HD650 pretty well. I just did a quick comparison over 4 songs on the HD650 via the DragonFly, then via my regular desktop rig (Rega DAC/Little Dot MkIII).
   
  For money, the DragonFly is a good DAC/Amp. It gives an enjoyable listen with the HD650, with more then enough power to drive it. I only use up to step 45 of the 64 step analog attenuator in the DF. 
   
  Compared to my desktop rig, the DF is a little more congested and tense. Treble is a little harsher. The Rega DAC also pulls out more detail then the DF. Overall, the Rega DAC/LD MkIII is more refined, but at 4 times the overall cost of the DF.
   
  I use the DF at work with Sennheiser IE80/UE Triple.Fi.10 and the DF is a great compact and discrete unit for this purpose. And I think the sound quality for the money is very good. As just a standalone DAC, I think it's good value for the money as well. I prefer it as a DAC to my Music Streamer II. The DF has a more resolving and open sound then the MSII.


----------



## DannyBai

Here's the DT and DF connected.  The DT cable is stiff and hard to bend.  Not what I expected.


----------



## fischerb

Quote: 





tzjin said:


> Someone earlier said it required too much power, but should work with a powered hub. Audioquest is coming out with another version for Android later this year.


 
  Is there any info about that date? I wouldn't wait any longer than the end of the 1st quarter, so I wonder about it. Thanks


----------



## LAmitchell

Quote: 





keevs said:


> The DragonFly drives the HD650 pretty well. I just did a quick comparison over 4 songs on the HD650 via the DragonFly, then via my regular desktop rig (Rega DAC/Little Dot MkIII).
> 
> For money, the DragonFly is a good DAC/Amp. It gives an enjoyable listen with the HD650, with more then enough power to drive it. I only use up to step 45 of the 64 step analog attenuator in the DF.
> 
> ...


 
  THANK YOU for that review. I have experimented and found that the DF with DECIBEL squeezes every last drop of data possible.


----------



## Keevs

Software players also make a big difference. I use Audirvana Plas (OSX) at home and Foobar2000 with WASAPI at work (dang locked down work laptops).
   
  I've heard Decibel is very good as well.
   
  I would love to see a comparison of the DragonFly with the new Schiit Modi & Magni set in terms of SQ.

 I would not get the Schiit set for work as I prefer the DF size and discreetness (I moved from a HRT MSII/RSA Tommahawk setup to the DF).

 The advantage I see with the DF vs the M/M combo is no cables (USB or interconnect) needed for the DF. This to me is a big advantage as there is no need to worry the added expense for quality cables.


----------



## tzjin

Quote: 





fischerb said:


> Is there any info about that date? I wouldn't wait any longer than the end of the 1st quarter, so I wonder about it. Thanks


 
   
  According to the link below, it should be out soon. But there's a strange lack of information.

 http://www.avland.co.uk/aasp/audioquest/1220/bumblebee/bumblebee.asp


----------



## MarcusListens

I heard that using the DragonFly with iTunes will not be good because iTunes does not change the sample rate on the go. Any advice here? 

 Cheers! Really looking to getting this. Looking like a solid device.


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Quote: 





marcuslistens said:


> I heard that using the DragonFly with iTunes will not be good because iTunes does not change the sample rate on the go. Any advice here?
> 
> Cheers! Really looking to getting this. Looking like a solid device.


 
   
  As far as I understand iTunes is really bad if you like quality audio output.  I could be wrong though, always open to that possibility 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  
   
  I use foobar with WASAPI.  My only frustration with foobar is I can't get it to sort by track number automatically.  I can force it by right clicking but that is a pain.  If anyone has a solution it would be greatly appreciated.
   
  It's a great device, really enjoying it: solid sound and construction.
   
  (Edited for grammar)


----------



## Keevs

iTunes on its own is not great as an audio player. If you are using OSX, download the free version of Audirvana. This will also change the sample rates automatically (otherwise you can change it manually in Audio Midi on OSX).


----------



## MarcusListens

Quote: 





keevs said:


> iTunes on its own is not great as an audio player. If you are using OSX, download the free version of Audirvana. This will also change the sample rates automatically (otherwise you can change it manually in Audio Midi on OSX).


 
  Thanks a lot for recommending me Audirvana free! Just downloaded and will try it out later after I finish ripping some CDs. It's nice to know it reads ALAC too!


----------



## MarcusListens

Quote: 





gidgiddonihah said:


> As far as I understand iTunes is really bad if you like quality audio output.  I could be wrong though, always open to that possibility
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Well, being a Mac user with iPhone and iPod I pretty much had to stick with it. But now I'm thinking about moving away from iTunes and really considering about getting the DragonFly. I'm still waiting for my JH5 though. 

 You guys have any idea if the DragonFly can work with the PS3?

 Also, has anyone tried it with their JH5? I'm afraid it might be too powerful for it. Anyone?
   
  Cheers!


----------



## MickeyVee

Same here but there is a solution. I use iTunes to manage my library, rip, sync and stream.  When I really want a good listen, I use Decibel. It seems to be a much better player and it can do Flac and manage bitrate changes on the fly.  Also, you can import iTunes playlists very easily. It's a good solution and and can be found on the app store.

Edit: after reading about Audirvana, I'm going to give it a try. The reviews are extremely positive and it can integrate with iTunes. 


   
   
   
  Quote:


marcuslistens said:


> Well, being a Mac user with iPhone and iPod I pretty much had to stick with it. But now I'm thinking about moving away from iTunes and really considering about getting the DragonFly.


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Quote: 





marcuslistens said:


> Well, being a Mac user with iPhone and iPod I pretty much had to stick with it. But now I'm thinking about moving away from iTunes and really considering about getting the DragonFly. I'm still waiting for my JH5 though.


 
   
  Is there not a Mac version of foobar?  If so there is the iPod component that allows syncing with "i" devices.
   
  (Edit) Got my cables (6 inch and 6 foot) in the mail today with my Psychology textbook 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Very plain looking but feels well built. The only problem I have is they are quite tight which means I have to pull harder than I would like on the DF to get it out. Took an old USB hub I had hanging around and pulled it in and out several times to loosen it a bit.  It's a little better but still tighter than I like. Audio quality (in the 5 minutes I had) seems the same. Haven't noticed anything different and don't/didn't really expect to.


----------



## Whippler

depends on what other things you are going to use on it, playing music from usb HDD connected to same hub as dragonfly, and there is not enough speed on a single usb for that to work.


----------



## RUMAY408

Quote: 





marcuslistens said:


> I heard that using the DragonFly with iTunes will not be good because iTunes does not change the sample rate on the go. Any advice here?
> 
> Cheers! Really looking to getting this. Looking like a solid device.


 
  I have a lot of experience with this as I use a MBAir.  iTunes, the newest version is adequate with the DF but constantly changing the Audi Midi to the various BIT's is a pain.  So I first bought Bitperfect for $10, not great but better sound than iTunes and cheap.  I was still was stuck with the manuel changes required on the Mac with Bitperfect so I demo'd Pure Music and Amarra.  Pure Music was next level with sound but still required constant handshaking to sync.  Amarra plays off the DF as does Pure Music but Amarra plays seamlessly with the DF.  The sound off Amarra is exceptional and it will also load Flac and AIFF off downloads to iTunes. All the above players play off iTunes using the the main page and song listings, so very convenient. Amarra was easily the best sounding software and watching the DF change colors without manuel shifts was time saving.  
   
  You can go to either Pure Music or Amarra websites and do a two week free demo which I would strongly encourage. For further info, the Amarra thread is very helpful for those with Macs on software use with iTunes.


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Quote: 





whippler said:


> depends on what other things you are going to use on it, playing music from usb HDD connected to same hub as dragonfly, and there is not enough speed on a single usb for that to work.


 
   
  I refuse to plug the DF into a hub.  Don't want the hassle or loss of audio quality (event though there wouldn't be any-kind of OCD  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
   
  If you had a powered hub it should have enough power to run as many devices as it has ports...


----------



## MickeyVee

Don't know what I've done but all I get now is static with the Dragonfly on both of my Macs.  it  was fine from iTunes but when I started to play with third party players, Decibel and Audirvana, I must have corrupted something switching between them.  Tried clearing caches, rebooting but the DF just gives me static now. The DF is still OK on my Windows 7 netbook.  Arrgh!


----------



## awtryau89

Quote: 





keevs said:


> Software players also make a big difference. I use Audirvana Plas (OSX) at home and Foobar2000 with WASAPI at work (dang locked down work laptops).
> 
> I've heard Decibel is very good as well.
> 
> ...


 
  My son just got the Schitt set. If I can get him away from it I will make some comparisons and let you know what I can hear.


----------



## RUMAY408

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Don't know what I've done but all I get now is static with the Dragonfly on both of my Macs.  it  was fine from iTunes but when I started to play with third party players, Decibel and Audirvana, I must have corrupted something switching between them.  Tried clearing caches, rebooting but the DF just gives me static now. The DF is still OK on my Windows 7 netbook.  Arrgh!


 
  Man I am sorry to hear about that.  I never tried Audivana or Decibel.  Bitperfect caused some issues with sound quality early on the DF but very inconsistently, since it was updated I haven't had issues with it but I basically gave up on it since Amarra is such an upgrade. 
   
  Given my experience with Bitperfect I stuck with the more pricey but higher quality software.  On the last few pages of the Amarra thread you will find some very helpful links, for demos and MORE.


----------



## Whippler

Quote: 





gidgiddonihah said:


> I refuse to plug the DF into a hub.  Don't want the hassle or loss of audio quality (event though there wouldn't be any-kind of OCD
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
   
  There's enough power, not enough data bandwidth in usb2.0 to read the data from HDD, and then send it back trough the same usb cord to the dragonfly.


----------



## hunter55

you can use the dragonfly as a pure dac by just turning the volume on your computer to max right? just making sure since I plan on getting an amp too.


----------



## RUMAY408

Quote: 





hunter55 said:


> you can use the dragonfly as a pure dac by just turning the volume on your computer to max right? just making sure since I plan on getting an amp too.


 
  You are absolutly right I use mine in sequence with a Bellari HA540 HP amp.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





hunter55 said:


> you can use the dragonfly as a pure dac by just turning the volume on your computer to max right? just making sure since I plan on getting an amp too.


 
   
  Yes, then the amp you plug the DF into will handle volume control to your HP's.


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Quote: 





whippler said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  If that was the case then my desktop couldn't do it with the front two USB ports as they are on an internal hub and therefore sharing bandwidth.  Taking it through only one port means I am pulling all the bandwidth out of that internal hub (480 mbps or 60 MBps) and into my external one as the other USB port on that internal hub is sitting idle.  Therefore if it works using my front two USB ports it would work on an external hub.  There are computers I have seen that run 5-8 different ports on the same internal hub. 
   
  Audio is also extremely lightweight.  I have had a friend use a hub to shoot HD video across a 2.0 hub from an external drive to the computer and the audio back out to his (subpar) soundcard (on that same hub) without a problem.  HD video (which would be 5.1 AC3 audio and 720p/1080p video) from my USB 3.0 device running on 2.0 ports load as fast as the computer (CPU/etc) can render it which ends up being almost instantaneous. It should be fine for the Dragonfly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  (Edit) Anyone having trouble with the DF headphone jack?  It seams really sensitive.  When rotating my headphone cable sometimes I get really bad static feedback and when I wiggle it in the USB port I get the same.
   
  (Edit 2) Now all I get is static...
   
  (Edit 3) Hmmm...  A restart seems to have fixed it.  My DF seems loose in its case and I thought that's what it was.  Was giving me crap in XBMC (playing a movie) and wouldn't stop when I closed it.  Restarted my laptop and its working great now.


----------



## DBMethos

The more I read about this little guy, the more intrigued I am. However, it's been out for a little while now and surely Audioquest has been listening to the (minor) complaints about it. Any word yet about a followup?


----------



## cutie

I have compared the Dragonfly using the JPLAY V4.3 & V5 (Beta) thru' my JH16s.
  It is very good on its own.
  Even better when used with the iFi iUSB Ultra-Low Noise power supply.
  Guess what? I thought it would be very close to the DX100.
  I was wrong.
  The DX100 running 1.2.7 firmware thru' my JH16s sounded even more transparent, more emotional X-factor.
  The Dragonfly is very clear but lacking the emotional factor.
   
  Yes the DX100 interface is a little sluggish, but the sound quality is amazing.


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Quote: 





> Yes the DX100 interface is a little sluggish, but the sound quality is amazing.


 
   
  If its running Android (which I am pretty sure it is) there should be a custom kernel that allows you to OC it and set it to a performance governor.  After that it should be much faster.  Forewarning: don't overclock it too much (one or two hundred MHz should do it fine) and when you overclock it the battery life will fall as the CPU is pulling more power.  Don't have one to test.
   
  (Edit) Quick Google search pulls up nothing.  Maybe there isn't enough support as most devs don't believe in a 830$ device that just plays music 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
   
  (Edit 2) I have been having even more problems with my Dragonfly...
   
     Quote:


gidgiddonihah said:


> (Edit) Anyone having trouble with the DF headphone jack?  It seams really sensitive.  When rotating my headphone cable sometimes I get really bad static feedback and when I wiggle it in the USB port I get the same.
> 
> (Edit 2) Now all I get is static...
> 
> (Edit 3) Hmmm...  A restart seems to have fixed it.  My DF seems loose in its case and I thought that's what it was.  Was giving me crap in XBMC (playing a movie) and wouldn't stop when I closed it.  Restarted my laptop and its working great now.


 

   

  Lots of times it just won't output anything unless I wiggle it which creates a painful staticy popping symphony.  Lots of times when I plug it in I need to play it for 10 seconds to several minutes before popping and crackling goes away.  This happens in MOG, Spotify, Rdio, foobar, Mediamonkey, and everything else I tested in Linux Mint on my laptop and Win7 on my desktop/laptop so I think I be pretty sure its the Dragonfly.  I called Audio Advisor and they are shipping me a replacement.  Will update when it comes in.


----------



## Alexdad54

I really enjoy the DF over my Denons and was thinking of running my Dragonfly to my preamp to compare the sound over my speakers to my Havana DAC. Can anyone recommend a good quality mini to RCA cable? I was looking at the Zu Audio Mission cables on eBay....


----------



## verber

I am sure there are some people who have found "magic" cables that are just amazing. My experience is anything with reasonable gauge wire seems fine.  I have been happy with the "premium" grade RSA and mini-jack cables from monoprice.  Not quite as happy with their balance cables which sounds fine but the connectors require a bit more insertion forces than better cables I own.
   
  --mark


----------



## longbowbbs

The Audioquest Evergreen Mini to RCA works great and is not expensive...
   
  http://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-Evergreen-1m-3-28-feet/dp/B005T44LES/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1358291909&sr=8-2&keywords=audioquest+evergreen


----------



## MickeyVee

Pretty much my entire headphone setup is with the AudioQuest Golden Gate and Cinnamon series (mini-rca, rca-rca, optical, usb plus I just got the DragonTail). I'm pretty sure that there would be no audible difference between the Evergreen and Goldengate. I'm just a red/black kind of guy.  (vanity) They're a great step up from MonoPrice without getting crazy.
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> The Audioquest Evergreen Mini to RCA works great and is not expensive...
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-Evergreen-1m-3-28-feet/dp/B005T44LES/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1358291909&sr=8-2&keywords=audioquest+evergreen


----------



## longbowbbs

The Audioquests have worked well for me too. I have the Cinnamon on the main rig....


----------



## MickeyVee

I finally got my DragonFly working again with my MacBook Air.  I was trying different players (Decibel, Audirvana, BitPerfect) and must have corrupted something. Had to reinstall Mountain Lion in place and that seems to have cleared things up. Been fiddling around for weeks to get it going again.  Anyway, still really pleased with it.  The DragonTail is a great addition. Listening right now through a pair of v-Moda M100 and I'll be re-discovering it all over again over the next few days.


----------



## longbowbbs

I am using it on my PC with my new Sicphones amp....Really digging the combo....


----------



## gidgiddonihah

New one just came in (go Audio Advisor/FedEx!) two days early.  For a second all I got was sound through WASAPI and foobar.  Uninstalled the USB driver Windows installed for the original one, restarted and followed the quick manual.  Works perfect now.
   
  What is strange is I got the case that Jude posted in the review for my first one, but this one has a leather case and there are icons in the back you find on lots of electronics (i.e. the trashcan with the x through it) when the original didn't.


----------



## RUMAY408

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> The Audioquest Evergreen Mini to RCA works great and is not expensive...
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-Evergreen-1m-3-28-feet/dp/B005T44LES/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1358291909&sr=8-2&keywords=audioquest+evergreen


 
  The Evergreen works for me, less expensive & high quality.  I don't get the cable argument,  this is physics we are talking about, conductive wire can only conduct so fast, if properly shielded why pay 10x's as much?
   
  Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> I finally got my DragonFly working again with my MacBook Air.  I was trying different players (Decibel, Audirvana, BitPerfect) and must have corrupted something. Had to reinstall Mountain Lion in place and that seems to have cleared things up. Been fiddling around for weeks to get it going again.  Anyway, still really pleased with it.  The DragonTail is a great addition. Listening right now through a pair of v-Moda M100 and I'll be re-discovering it all over again over the next few days.


 
  Try the demo of Amarra for two weeks off their web site for free.  I have been using this with the DF with MBAir and it is the best software with the DF I have tried.


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Anyone have any problems with it handling high resolution files?  I found out why it wasn't working until I fiddled with it: the replacement Dragonfly can't seem to handle high resolution input.  When downsampled to 16 bit/ 44100 it worked just fine, but playing anything higher is a no go.  Same with Windows.  When I set it to anything higher than 24 bit/44100 it will not play anything.  The light lights up the correct color but plays nothing. It was a gift from my parents and they already have these two charged on their card, not sure if its a dud I want to have them spend more money (even when its just temporarily) to have Audio Advisor send yet another.  It seems they have a high failure rate....
   
  So anyone have any ideas?  I tried in foobar (WASAPI on and Direct Sound), JRiver (WASAPI), and the Windows 7 64 Bit tester.  All come back without a sound when playing (or testing) anything higher than CD quality.
   
  (Edit) This doesn't bode well...


----------



## LAmitchell

I've had my DF since NOVEMBER, and haven't had a problem. I seem to like it more and more and more.
   
  Thinking about getting the DragonTail, but not sure if it would degrade the sound quality.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





gidgiddonihah said:


> Anyone have any problems with it handling high resolution files?  I found out why it wasn't working until I fiddled with it: the replacement Dragonfly can't seem to handle high resolution input.  When downsampled to 16 bit/ 44100 it worked just fine, but playing anything higher is a no go.  Same with Windows.  When I set it to anything higher than 24 bit/44100 it will not play anything.  The light lights up the correct color but plays nothing. It was a gift from my parents and they already have these two charged on their card, not sure if its a dud I want to have them spend more money (even when its just temporarily) to have Audio Advisor send yet another.  It seems they have a high failure rate....
> 
> So anyone have any ideas?  I tried in foobar (WASAPI on and Direct Sound), JRiver (WASAPI), and the Windows 7 64 Bit tester.  All come back without a sound when playing (or testing) anything higher than CD quality.
> 
> (Edit) This doesn't bode well...


 
  No trouble with JRiver handling the bitrate. Playing ripped vs FLAC, JRMC manages things and the DF plays them appropriately. It's fun watching the colors change on the DF.


----------



## awtryau89

Dragonfly vs GoDap X
   
  I was hoping to solicit some opinion on these 2 products. I currently own the Dragonfly and love it. It has spoiled me so much I don't get nearly the pleasure of listening to me iPhone when I am traveling. I am looking to pick up a GoDap X. In this situation I would use it both from my computer and iPhone when I am mobile. 
   
  I am hoping there are a few on here that may have had experience with both and if so is the Go Dap X on par with the Dragonfly from a Dac/Amp combo? Any info and opinion will help. Thanks.


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> No trouble with JRiver handling the bitrate. Playing ripped vs FLAC, JRMC manages things and the DF plays them appropriately. It's fun watching the colors change on the DF.


 
   
  Hmmm.  Then mine must be a dud. I left a message with AudioQuest tech support (it was a personalized message for one person which doesn't give me a whole lot of confidence in support over there) and hope to hear back.


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





gidgiddonihah said:


> Hmmm.  Then mine must be a dud. I left a message with AudioQuest tech support (it was a personalized message for one person which doesn't give me a whole lot of confidence in support over there) and hope to hear back.


 

 Try sending an email as well, I got quick responses from my emails.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





gidgiddonihah said:


> Hmmm.  Then mine must be a dud. I left a message with AudioQuest tech support (it was a personalized message for one person which doesn't give me a whole lot of confidence in support over there) and hope to hear back.


 
  Ask for Alisdair at Audioquest....He will handle your concerns for you...


----------



## sune

Hi,
   
  I currently have the dragonfly on trial. I've tried hooking it up to my Squeezebox Touch, using Triode's Digital Output option. I was hoping for the touch being able to control the volume of the Dragonfly, but this does not seem to happen. This is how I figure it to be so:
   
  * Full volume setting on the SBT, Dragonfly has notably softer output than my DacMagic connected to the SBT (or the analog output from my TV for that matter). We are talking 50% softer here - my pre-amp volume knob moves from 9->12, to match volume.
  * Connecting headphones directly to the output of the Dragon fly:
  -PC: Volume control at between 5% and 15% is plenty loud, depending on the track.
  -SBT: Volume control at 20%, you can hardly hear anything.
   
Does anyone know if the SBT is supposed to be able to control the volume control of the Dragonfly? If so, how to make if work? I'm not using a USB hub and I don't know if that would make a difference.
   
  Thanks


----------



## sune

Btw. I'm also getting very low fequency hum, when connected to one of my computers. Is anyone else experiencing this?


----------



## LAmitchell

Quote: 





usaudio said:


> I've been considering the Sennheiser Amperior or Beyerdynamic DT1350 to go along with the DragonFly.
> Any thoughts on how well those headphones will match with the DragonFly?
> One better than the other?  If so, why?
> Thanks!


 
   
  Did you end up trying out any of those combos?  I am REALLY curious about the AMPERIOR and DF together because I currently use the HD251-II with my DF and I love love love love it.
   
  Makes me think about upgrading to the AMPERIOR.


----------



## USAudio

lamitchell said:


> Did you end up trying out any of those combos?  I am REALLY curious about the AMPERIOR and DF together because I currently use the HD251-II with my DF and I love love love love it.
> 
> Makes me think about upgrading to the AMPERIOR.



I tried the Amperior and they were just way too bright for me, but I don't think it had anything to do with the Dragonfly.


----------



## xinghui0711

DF has caught my attention.
  How does DF sound comparing to ODAC? I have an amp already, so all I need is a good dac.


----------



## verber

Quote: 





lamitchell said:


> I've had my DF since NOVEMBER, and haven't had a problem. I seem to like it more and more and more.
> 
> Thinking about getting the DragonTail, but not sure if it would degrade the sound quality.


 
   
  The DF has really impressed me, especially given form factor and price.
   
  Why are you concerned about degrading sound quality?  It's a USB cable for heaven sakes.  So long as it's not causing bits to get dropped... unbelievably unlikely unless you are trying to use it in the middle of a place saturated with some my RF energy that your insides are cooked in which case you have bigger problems 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  --Mark


----------



## LAmitchell

yeah, you're right, I'm being a little paranoid


----------



## Poimandres

I just ordered the dragonfly, the dragon tail and two media bridge extensions 1 6 inch and 1 6 feet all from Amazon. Everything should be here Wednesday or maybe before depending on where they ship from.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





poimandres said:


> I just ordered the dragonfly, the dragon tail and two media bridge extensions 1 6 inch and 1 6 feet all from Amazon. Everything should be here Wednesday or maybe before depending on where they ship from.


----------



## Poimandres

Let the waiting begin.


----------



## gidgiddonihah

I contacted Audio Advisor and they are sending me an RMA shipping tag for the replacement Dragonfly.  I'll call on Monday to have them send me a new one when they get the first one so there aren't 3 250$ charges on my parent's card.  I'll post what happens when I get the 2nd replacement.


----------



## LAmitchell

Hey guys,
   
  No doubt that I have been enjoying the DRAGONFLY as a DAC/AMP when I am at the different coffee shops where I hang out....
   
   

   
   
  but call it a case of upgraditis, would I benefit from adding a portable amp (like something from ALO's lineup) to my coffee-shop hif-fidelity experience?
  or is the amp section out of the DF just as good as the ALO amps (ie. Continental, National, Rx, etc)
   
  Thanks for the answer in advance,
   
  LAmitchell


----------



## longbowbbs

My HP-P1 is better than the DF, however, it is more than 2X the price and certainly is a brick compared to the DF. I use both. The DF I use with the MBPro as the entire lossless library is housed on it. The HP-P1 gets used with the IPC that has a more limited library, usually when I am flying. Different circumstances. For Coffee shop use if I am surfing on the MBPro I would just use the DF.


----------



## Poimandres

Are you referring to the amp or the dac section? The amp section I would think would be superior on the fostex. How about the dac?


----------



## longbowbbs

Both....Look I like the DF and have owned it since nearly the first day it came out. However, it is not kryptonite. The fostex has a superior amp and dac. It should for the price and because it does not have the size constraints that the DF does. In the end, they are both terrific and each accomplishes a different role. Remember, I use both regularly so I do not have a dog in this fight.


----------



## Poimandres

How does the DF DAC compare to the ODAC?  As I am thinking about picking up an ODAC as well.


----------



## Poimandres

Ok JDS Labs does not have the odac in stock however they do have the case for the odac for around 29 dollars. I ordered one and hopefully I will be able to get the dragonfly in there. I am not sure if I want to try to mod it if possible or secure the dragonfly in there and then use a USB adapter to go to a female mini USB connection.


----------



## sune

Quote: 





sune said:


> I currently have the dragonfly on trial. I've tried hooking it up to my Squeezebox Touch, using Triode's Digital Output option. I was hoping for the touch being able to control the volume of the Dragonfly, but this does not seem to happen.


 
   
  I tried this with a hub, no change. Still substantially lowered output at SBT max volume.  So don't think this will work, unless you are running directly into an amp and already have too much gain in your system.
   
  Cheers


----------



## weroflu

Quote: 





> Anyone have any problems with it handling high resolution files?  I found out why it wasn't working until I fiddled with it: the replacement Dragonfly can't seem to handle high resolution input.  When downsampled to 16 bit/ 44100 it worked just fine, but playing anything higher is a no go.  Same with Windows.  When I set it to anything higher than 24 bit/44100 it will not play anything.  The light lights up the correct color but plays nothing. It was a gift from my parents and they already have these two charged on their card, not sure if its a dud I want to have them spend more money (even when its just temporarily) to have Audio Advisor send yet another.  It seems they have a high failure rate....


 
   
  I'm having the same problem. At first I thought it was a loose connection issue, but now I realize what you said is the exact problem. 44.1k works perfectly. Any other sample rate gives me either hash or no sound.
   
  I wrote to audioquest a few times. Very spotty technical service. Sometimes they don't respond. Once they told me to change to use one particular playback program, which is not a fix as far as I'm concerned.
   
  (I'm using this under linux)


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Quote: 





weroflu said:


> I'm having the same problem. At first I thought it was a loose connection issue, but now I realize what you said is the exact problem. 44.1k works perfectly. Any other sample rate gives me either hash or no sound.
> 
> I wrote to audioquest a few times. Very spotty technical service. Sometimes they don't respond. Once they told me to change to use one particular playback program, which is not a fix as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> (I'm using this under linux)


 
   
  If are still under the return date of whenever you bought it you can grab a new one.  Audio Advisor has been great and they will be shipping me a new one whenever they get the first one.  If not you can call in to Audioquest but support doesn't seem all that great.


----------



## Poimandres

Received the dragonfly today from Amazon.  It certainly has more than enough juice to power my Heir Audio 8.a's.  I have the volume at 21 in Windows and maxed out in foobar and it is on the borderline of being too loud.  As most have noted this is a very good dac, currently listening to the Airborne Toxic Event Live from the Walt Disney Concert Hall (one of my all time favorite albums) and the sound is phenomenal.


----------



## breadvan

Can anyone using their DF with a smartphone report whether DF's power consumption is an issue?


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Quote: 





breadvan said:


> Can anyone using their DF with a smartphone report whether DF's power consumption is an issue?


 
   
  I am pretty sure that the DF pulls too much power to be supplied by the phone and needs a powered USB hub.  Haven't tried it myself though...


----------



## Spiderman

Quote: 





lamitchell said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> No doubt that I have been enjoying the DRAGONFLY as a DAC/AMP when I am at the different coffee shops where I hang out....
> 
> ...


 

 Dude in that picture you look just like Chris Hardwick.


----------



## LAmitchell

Chris Hardwick? he's awesome - Thanks!


----------



## Poimandres

Unfortunately I have not faired well with the dragonfly. I purchased both from Amazon as brand new. The first one I received was a used return which had the draw string bag. Which I believe is a rev 1 and the second one had the leather pouch which I believe is rev 2. The second one refused to play at 48k or 96k. Although the first return was not a Audioquest issue but an amazon issue I have decided to call it quits and ordered a dacport lx from Amazon. As I really enjoyed the sabre sound I think I will order an odac as well.


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Quote: 





poimandres said:


> Unfortunately I have not faired well with the dragonfly. I purchased both from Amazon as brand new. The first one I received was a used return which had the draw string bag. Which I believe is a rev 1 and the second one had the leather pouch which I believe is rev 2. The second one refused to play at 48k or 96k. Although the first return was not a Audioquest issue but an amazon issue I have decided to call it quits and ordered a dacport lx from Amazon. As I really enjoyed the sabre sound I think I will order an odac as well.


 
   
  I got the string pouch first and it had a giant list of problems.  The second one I got had the leather pouch and has the same problem you just described.  Makes me wonder what is up.  The first one should be back at Audio Adviser tomorrow so I will be ordering a third one and will report what happens with it.  I really love this thing but I am not sure how much longer I should keep trying if this replacement doesn't work either.


----------



## longbowbbs

Zero issues from day one....It has worked as advertised with both my MBPro with Amarra and my HP Elite PC with JRiver 18. I use it regularly with my HD25-1 ii's and ACS T1's.


----------



## Poimandres

I have a couple of HP Elites as well. Really great notebooks. 

For me the second one did it. The dacport lx gets a lot of love around here and for the same price as the dragonfly I couldn't pass it up. Plus I had a 10 off coupon. Looking forward to it and the odac.


----------



## longbowbbs

My Elite is the Desktop version....I have had it for years and the only ting left inside that is original is the motherboard!


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> My Elite is the Desktop version....I have had it for years and the only ting left inside that is original is the motherboard!


 
   
  After building my own desktop I will never buy a prebuilt tower again.


----------



## BobJS

I've been limping along with Windows XP and just ordered a Windows 7 computer.  I haven't been paying attention to this, but presumably there are no Dragonfly <-> Win 7 issues?


----------



## gidgiddonihah

From what I have read nope, its Windows 8 that has problems.  I would tell you from personal experience but both mine have been duds.


----------



## longbowbbs

bobjs said:


> I've been limping along with Windows XP and just ordered a Windows 7 computer.  I haven't been paying attention to this, but presumably there are no Dragonfly <-> Win 7 issues?
> 
> It has worked fine with both Win 7 & 8 for me.


----------



## ha2780

Not sure if this is the place to ask or if it has been asked before, but for some reason my dragonfly doesn't output any sound when set to 44.1k or 82.2k, regardless of what kind of file I'm playing.  Most of my stuff is 44.1k, so I'm not sure what the problem is, but all I get are clicks.  Works perfectly fine on 48k and 96k, and since everything sounds significantly better on 96k, I usually just leave it at that.  I'm using  a macbook pro, and set up all the settings according to the manual.  Also, is there a reason not to just leave it on 96k?  Even though most of my files are 44.1k, they, along with youtube videos, sound so much better on 96k than 48k that I don't see the point in using any other setting.  I'm fairly new to head-fi (long time lurker) and this is my first real post, so any help would be greatly appreciated!!
  Oh and btw, I did use the search function before asking lol


----------



## RUMAY408

Quote: 





ha2780 said:


> Not sure if this is the place to ask or if it has been asked before, but for some reason my dragonfly doesn't output any sound when set to 44.1k or 82.2k, regardless of what kind of file I'm playing.  Most of my stuff is 44.1k, so I'm not sure what the problem is, but all I get are clicks.  Works perfectly fine on 48k and 96k, and since everything sounds significantly better on 96k, I usually just leave it at that.  I'm using  a macbook pro, and set up all the settings according to the manual.  Also, is there a reason not to just leave it on 96k?  Even though most of my files are 44.1k, they, along with youtube videos, sound so much better on 96k than 48k that I don't see the point in using any other setting.  I'm fairly new to head-fi (long time lurker) and this is my first real post, so any help would be greatly appreciated!!
> Oh and btw, I did use the search function before asking lol


 
  On Mac go to launch>utilities>Midi audio then manually set the output you want in 44.1 the DF should light green.  I assume you meant 88.2 which should light yellow.


----------



## LAmitchell

I love that Head-Fi is a place to be honest about how well certain products 
  are performing.  Having said that, I hope someone thinking about getting a
  DRAGONFLY is not put off by the few people that are having problems.
   
   
   

   
   
  I believe the problems they experienced are real / honest, it's just that for
  every ONE person having a problem, there could be  FIVE-HUNDRED people
  having a GREAT time with the Dragonfly (including me).
   
  I hope I'm not coming across as a defender of the DF - it's just that I am really
  LOVING this product (and probably wouldn't have bought it if I saw these negative posts
  about it because I would have made the wrong assumptions). Mine came with the
  little black pouch, and I just got some Sennie AMPERIORS to use it at coffee shops, etc. 
   
  I love the new dac technology - gettin' better, faster, cheaper, clearer, and
  more analog-ish each time a new one comes out!
   
  LAmitchell


----------



## Currawong

I don't think I've heard of a high-res USB DAC that hasn't had someone having problems with Windows lately. It's almost as bad as when Windows started offering USB support in 98.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





lamitchell said:


> I love that Head-Fi is a place to be honest about how well certain products
> are performing.  Having said that, I hope someone thinking about getting a
> DRAGONFLY is not put off by the few people that are having problems.
> 
> ...


 
  +1 to that!


----------



## Deviltooth

I just purchased a Dragonfly and set it up as per the instructions in the pamphlet.  My media player of choice is VLC and when I raise the volume of VLC above the 100 percent mark I get static in the sound.  This is the case on two seperate laptops.  Has anyone else experienced this phenomenon and is anyone aware of a fix?


----------



## Whippler

You should use the standard windows volume slider, i think VLC has its own digital volume control that doesn't get control of dragonfly, keep the vlc in 100%, and use system volume.


----------



## ha2780

Quote: 





rumay408 said:


> On Mac go to launch>utilities>Midi audio then manually set the output you want in 44.1 the DF should light green.  I assume you meant 88.2 which should light yellow.


 
   
  Lol yeah sorry I meant 88.2.  And that's the problem, when I set the output in MIDI to 44.1 or 88.2, all I get are clicks, even though the files are 44.1.  I have tried all 4 sampling rates and it changes to the correct color, just no sound on 44.1/88.2.  Also, is there a reason not to set it on a higher sampling rate?  Should it sound better at the correct rate?  I love this little thing, just not sure why I can't get it to work for me.


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Quote: 





lamitchell said:


> I love that Head-Fi is a place to be honest about how well certain products
> are performing.  Having said that, I hope someone thinking about getting a
> DRAGONFLY is not put off by the few people that are having problems.


 
   
  If it's just a few problems, and only the few of us that have posted are having problems then +1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  
   
  From what I have heard from Audio Advisor (guy I have been talking to has been completely open and honest) the problems I have seen here are common RMA problems, but not common in all their sales.  Just throwing an example out to clarify: out of the 5% returned 90% have the the same or similar problems.

   
   


whippler said:


> You should use the standard windows volume slider, i think VLC has its own digital volume control that doesn't get control of dragonfly, keep the vlc in 100%, and use system volume.


 
   
  +1.  Max out VLC and use the Windows volume control.  VLC takes that audio stream and digitally blows the audio up which can cause some interesting results, damaging the transmission of the file along the way.  I never go over 100% unless I really need to (when using cheapo, quiet speakers) and even then I refuse to go past ~125%. 
   
   
  Quote: 





ha2780 said:


> Lol yeah sorry I meant 88.2.  And that's the problem, when I set the output in MIDI to 44.1 or 88.2, all I get are clicks, even though the files are 44.1.  I have tried all 4 sampling rates and it changes to the correct color, just no sound on 44.1/88.2.  Also, is there a reason not to set it on a higher sampling rate?  Should it sound better at the correct rate?  I love this little thing, just not sure why I can't get it to work for me.


 
   
  So which are having problems?  Audioquest misunderstood me and thought I was saying your exact problem.  If its 44.1 and 88.2 then the clock control on the DF is defective and needs to be repaired since one clock controls 44.1 and 88.2 and the other one controls 48 and 96.


----------



## RUMAY408

Quote: 





ha2780 said:


> Lol yeah sorry I meant 88.2.  And that's the problem, when I set the output in MIDI to 44.1 or 88.2, all I get are clicks, even though the files are 44.1.  I have tried all 4 sampling rates and it changes to the correct color, just no sound on 44.1/88.2.  Also, is there a reason not to set it on a higher sampling rate?  Should it sound better at the correct rate?  I love this little thing, just not sure why I can't get it to work for me.


 
  I assume you are setting the bit rate right as well as the frequency.  If all the settings are right I would agree with gidgiddoniha as stated above.


----------



## crooner

I bought my DF from the local Audioquest dealer (Stereo Unlimited) here in San Diego back in September and I couldn't be much happier. I even accidentally bent it slightly (now I use the Belkin flexible adapter), but it has performed flawlessly for me. No issues whatsoever.
   
  So, the string pouch units are Version 1? Mine has this kind of pouch.
   
  According to the Stereophile review, the first version clips at 100% volume. Mine doesn't.


----------



## ha2780

@gidgiddonihah
  Ah I knew that but it didn't even cross my mind.  Yes it is just 44.1 and 88.2 that are having problems, so I'm sure you are right.
   
  @RUMAY408
  I'm not quite sure what you mean by setting the frequency right?  Do you mean bit depth?  I don't see any other options in MIDI or sound settings.
   
  I bought the DF from Amazon, but I've been returning alot of stuff to Amazon recently (christmas/bday presents and such), and I've heard of people having their accounts banned for returning too many things in a short time.  Not that I'm particularly worried about that happening if I return this, I'd just like to cut back as much as possible.  But from reading parts of this thread it seems Audioquest's customer service is less than outstanding, so would I be better off going through Amazon or AQ?


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Amazon the whole way.  Though I am a Prime member I have returned stuff lots and have also had things that were broken.  In both latter cases Amazon overnighted a new product with prepaid shipping back.  No cost to me.  I love Amazon and have never had a problem with them.  Awesome service with amazing support that can *gasp* speak English (for those in the States)!  Audioquest well... The guy got back to me 5 hours later after I had already talked Audio Adviser and seemed not to pay much attention to what I was saying.  Didn't inspire much confidence in their 1 year support :/.


----------



## Alexsander

interesting setup with AQ DF:
  http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/my-tubed-marantz-setup-with-audioquest-dragonfly-netbook.303556/


----------



## goodvibes

Quote: 





alexsander said:


> interesting setup with AQ DF:
> http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/my-tubed-marantz-setup-with-audioquest-dragonfly-netbook.303556/


 
  That is cool. The squeezbox touch was the weak link in his last setup. Not the DAC but always good to find a a better way.


----------



## crooner

Quote: 





alexsander said:


> interesting setup with AQ DF:
> http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/my-tubed-marantz-setup-with-audioquest-dragonfly-netbook.303556/


 

 That's my setup which I posted in the Steve Hoffman forum. Sound quality is outstanding with the Dragonfly.


----------



## RUMAY408

Quote: 





ha2780 said:


> @gidgiddonihah
> Ah I knew that but it didn't even cross my mind.  Yes it is just 44.1 and 88.2 that are having problems, so I'm sure you are right.
> 
> @RUMAY408
> ...


 
  Wrong wording on my part should have said sample rate (ex. 44.1)


----------



## Deviltooth

A variant on my initial question: Does everyone else using the Dragonfly and VLC media player also encounter static/noise when they raise the VLC volume above the 100% mark or is my Dragonfly faulty?


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Quote: 





deviltooth said:


> A variant on my initial question: Does everyone else using the Dragonfly and VLC media player also encounter static/noise when they raise the VLC volume above the 100% mark or is my Dragonfly faulty?


 
   
  It's VLC.  When you go over 100% it digitally distorts the file in transit and a lot of the time it doesn't produce desirable results.  If its not happening to anything else you should be fine.


----------



## DrTone

Got me a Dragonfly.
   
  Plugged it into my Windows 8 laptop.  Configured J River to use WASAPI Event Style to the dragonfly and then I set JRMC to control the system volume which makes it control the analog gain on the dragon fly.
   
  Enabled headphone cross feed: Standard (increased spatialization)
  Because the the above DSP in the chain, configured output format to be fixed 24bit (with dithering) using the latest 128 build of version JRMC v18.
   
   
   
  Works flawlessly and sounds absolutely wonderful.


----------



## hungrydave

Hi all,
   
  I'm a long time lurker but this is my first post.  
   
  I've recently bought a pair of Sennheiser IE 800's and am delighted with them.  I've been without decent earphones for a few years since losing my Shure 535's in a house move.  I listen to a lot of music on the train so was hoping to get something that could give good portable sound quality.  I spend a lot of time walking, on the tube and other transport too - hence getting IEMs rather than headphones.  I'm a keen amateur cellist and pianist so would like to think I have a pretty decent ear for music appreciation and sound quality. 
   
  Anyway, I demoed the Dragonfly today and found it was a tale of two stories.  The set up was playing apple lossless CD rips from iTunes and a few 24/96 / 24/192 (which the DF resamples to 24/96, i think) FLAC tracks through VLC on my Macbook air - A/B'ing between plugging the IE800's straight into the macbook and using the DragonFly.  The music was a range of different styles: classical (holst, vivaldi), Razorlight, Diana Krall, Stevie Wonder etc.  
   
  I started with the ALAC tracks and frankly was hard pressed to hear much of a difference.  Quite surprising given the reviews this thing gets.  There were a few tracks where I could hear a marginal improvement in separation and clarity but it really wasn't as dramatic as I was expecting.  I tested a range of tracks and made sure the settings were right on the computer.  The one big difference I did notice using the DF was the lack of hiss / stutter in the background.
   
  With the FLAC tracks however - what a difference.  It was light and day between playing direct vs through the DragonFly.  So much more dynamism to the music, more tonal contrast, more separation between the music.  Listening to some of the high-res classical tracks through the DF was magical.
   
  My question is whether this fits with others' experience?  Half my 25000 track music collection is stored in ALAC, the other half is AAC (mostly 256 / 320kbps) so I really want something that will make a notable difference to the music I have. The answer might be to start acquiring high-res music and then look at DACs later.  With the music collection I have at the moment I just don't think I could justify buying the DF based on what I heard today.
   
  This doesn't chime with what I'm reading elsewhere though so I'd appreciate your thoughts?
   
  Cheers


----------



## DrTone

I think your problem is iTunes or something it's doing during playback, not the file type.  They are both lossless, no reason for one to sound better than the other.
   
   
  .02


----------



## yfei

I think must be software problem.  ALAC file is no difference from FLAC file, they are both bit perfect.  Which software did u use?   OS is Mac OS X?
  I use foobar on Windows to play both ALAC and FLAC.  There is no audible difference.
   
  One possibility that software can mess things up is 'sampling rate'.    In order for DragonFly (or any DAC) to achieve the best sound quality, need to make sure it is operating at the same sampling rate as the audio file's sampling rate.    In my case, when DragonFly is first installed, Windows will set it's sampling rate as 96k Hz.  But my music files are 44.1k Hz.  So I need to change the Windows settings to 44.1k, then use any software (VLC, Windows Media player) to play the music will be the correct sampling rate.   Foobar allow me to set sampling rate there to ignore Windows default settings.
   
  One easy way to verify what sampling rate DragonFly is operating on is by checking it's LED color, Green means 44.1k.  (blue for 48kHz, amber for 88.2kHz, and magenta for 96kHz)
   
  Using foobar it's easy to convert audio file format between ALAC and FLAC.  You can give that a try to verify.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





hungrydave said:


> I started with the ALAC tracks and frankly was hard pressed to hear much of a difference.
> With the FLAC tracks however - what a difference.


----------



## Aerocraft67

Quote: 





hungrydave said:


> The set up was playing apple lossless CD rips from iTunes and a few 24/96 / 24/192 (which the DF resamples to 24/96, i think) FLAC tracks through VLC on my Macbook air - A/B'ing between plugging the IE800's straight into the macbook and using the DragonFly.
> 
> I started with the ALAC tracks and frankly was hard pressed to hear much of a difference.  Quite surprising given the reviews this thing gets.
> With the FLAC tracks however - what a difference.  It was light and day between playing direct vs through the DragonFly.


 
  This suggests that the difference you're hearing may have more to do with the files and players than the DAC. It stands to reason that the difference between listening to CD-quality files via the Dragonfly vs. the Air's DAC would be more subtle than it would with high-resolution files—there's greater potential for the DAC to demonstrate superior performance with superior material, whereas there's less room for improvement on lower resolution stuff. This is particularly true if you're listening at a modest volume, and not taking advantage of the DF's superior amp than what's in the Air as well (although, your IE's aren't particularly hard to drive at 16 ohms, and the DF's output impedance shouldn't pose any trouble, either). 
   
  You're also comparing two different players (iTunes and VLC), each of which may present different potential for the DF to improve on. So the compound performance of 24/192/FLAC/VLC/DF vs. 24/192/FLAC/VLC/AirDAC could be overshadowing the 16/44/ALAC/iTunes/DF vs. 16/44/ALAC/iTunes/AirDAC, not to mention 16/44/ALAC/iTunes/AirDAC vs. 24/192/FLAC/VLC/DF, which could color your impressions even though that's not what you're trying to compare. Avoiding the debates about redbook vs. HD, your FLAC collection may be biased toward better-mastered recordings than your redbook collection, or perhaps your rips have flaws compared with the HD material, which could also contribute to your impressions.
   
  Point is, there's a lot more going on in your experiment than the DAC, so it's tough to attribute your findings primarily to the Dragonfly. Not that there's anything wrong with being underwhelmed by the DF's performance with your music collection. Economically, buying a $250 DAC/amp to play 12,500 ALAC and 12,500 AAC files for a $1,000 set of earphones worn by a musician is not at all unreasonable, so you could make the case on faith alone, assuming you can spare the coin. And you'll be able to take full advantage of your HD music collection as you amass it.


----------



## hungrydave

Folks, these are really helpful responses, thanks. Gives me lots to think about. 
   
  Guess my feeling was it wasn't worth the upgrade based on not being able to discern any notable difference in quality listening to my current collection in my normal player.  My high res collection is non existent - I just downloaded a few test tracks off the web to see what difference it made (a lot seems to be the answer). 
   
  Following on from the response I have a few more questions:
   
  - does anyone here use their dragonfly for a similar type of music collection (ALAC / AAC) and get big improvements? What setup and player do you use?
   
  - are there other players I should try out with the dragonfly that might give it more of a chance to shine with my 16/44 collection?
   
  - what are the alternatives to the dragonfly at this price point and above? Happy to look at something pricier if its notably better, but it still needs to be vaguely portable!  Something like the fostex hpp1 might be worth looking at but from what I've read I'd be paying more for its amp abilities whilst having an equivalent DAC?  Anything else to consider? Probably consider up to £800-1000 for a setup that really helps the music and IE800 sounds their best. 
   
  Or maybe the answer is to spend £200 on the dragonfly and start buying up high-res music. 
   
  I'm new to really thinking about this so hard to know where you get for biggest bang for your buck.
   
  Cheers


----------



## Aerocraft67

Quote: 





hungrydave said:


> - are there other players I should try out with the dragonfly that might give it more of a chance to shine with my 16/44 collection?
> - what are the alternatives to the dragonfly at this price point and above?


 
   
  I like Bitperfect as a $10 bolt-on to iTunes that seamlessly plays a mix of HD and non-HD files. I think it sounds better than iTunes alone in general, but haven't done any sophisticated listening comparison to validate that—it's worth it just to play the mix of format alone. You might also look into Audirvana, Pure Music, Amarra, and Fidelia. 
   
  As a value proposition for a DAC/headamp combo in this price tier that's somewhat portable, the Dragonfly is very, very difficult to beat. I shopped it against the Schiit Modi/Magni stack (compact, cheaper in the U.S., but not really portable) and the iFi iDAC. If you're in the U.K., take a look at the iFi. Gets great reviews and seems to be more available over there than here. And you can look forward to spending another $550 on the iUSBPower and iCAN.


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Quote: 





hungrydave said:


> My high res collection is non existent - I just downloaded a few test tracks off the web to see what difference it made (a lot seems to be the answer).


 
   
  Actually the answer is the complete opposite. *Most* people (and please, don't burn me at the stake here people) cannot hear the difference between a good 320 kBps rip and a 44100 FLAC (or other lossless format) let alone high resolution.  There has been quite a bit a research on it and if you read articles it can get technical very fast but the basic premise is the human ears can only pick up so many frequencies and after a certain point even a person with perfect, trained ears won't be able to detect even a slight change.  I personally (when doing a blind ABX test) can discern a FLAC 44100 vs a 320 kBps MP3, but the difference is *VERY* small on my setup.  I really have to listen, and frankly when I am listening for pleasure I wouldn't need it.  High resolution gets you a little bit higher, but when compared to FLAC/lossless rips I don't think very many people in the world could tell the difference on headphones.  High resolution is more of a placebo in my opinion.  I plan on getting lots of my stuff up there but only because I like to get every ounce of everything, even if I can't hear it.  I am OCD like that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
   
  My guess is if you didn't think the Dragonfly was a big upgrade, high resolution will do nothing for you.  But that's just my humble opinion.


----------



## Currawong

hungrydave,
   
  Due to the way Mac OS X works, there can be a very slight difference in the digital output with different players, according to the authors of various audio software. I'd second getting BitPerfect. Also, get X Lossless Decoder (XLD) and convert those FLAC files to ALAC and use them in iTunes.
   
  Quote: 





crooner said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
    
  Nice one. I'd suggest doing what I did, which is get an Aurorasound Bus Power Pro, USB B-to-A adaptor and powering the Dragonfly that way. You'll get quite a bit of improvement in the sound. There are other, similar devices designed to provide better USB power but that is what I have on hand at the moment.


----------



## RUMAY408

I have Bitperfect and I had one heck of a time getting a lengthy handshake with the DF. Demo'd both Pure Music and Amarra on my Mac. I would strongly recommend a free two week demo with Pure Music and Amarra and decide what works best with the DF.


----------



## hungrydave

Quote: 





gidgiddonihah said:


> Actually the answer is the complete opposite. *Most* people (and please, don't burn me at the stake here people) cannot hear the difference between a good 320 kBps rip and a 44100 FLAC (or other lossless format) let alone high resolution.  There has been quite a bit a research on it and if you read articles it can get technical very fast but the basic premise is the human ears can only pick up so many frequencies and after a certain point even a person with perfect, trained ears won't be able to detect even a slight change.  I personally (when doing a blind ABX test) can discern a FLAC 44100 vs a 320 kBps MP3, but the difference is *VERY* small on my setup.  I really have to listen, and frankly when I am listening for pleasure I wouldn't need it.  High resolution gets you a little bit higher, but when compared to FLAC/lossless rips I don't think very many people in the world could tell the difference on headphones.  High resolution is more of a placebo in my opinion.  I plan on getting lots of my stuff up there but only because I like to get every ounce of everything, even if I can't hear it.  I am OCD like that
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  My understanding of high res music wasn't that it allowed a greater range of pitch (e.g. Going higher, as you say - although it might) but that it allowed for more detail to be retained within the track, more subtle dynamics, more accurate tones. Like comparing a JPEG to a Tiff - it's mostly good enough but there's often something about the uncompressed image that lifts it off the page / screen, like more detail in the shade, better colour gradation etc. 
   
   
  The interesting thing I found was that whilst the high res music did sound better straight out of the computer (slightly subjective as I was using a different player and didn't have the same tracks to compare), the dragonfly made a big difference whereas it was barely noticeable with the ALAC standard def music.  Using High Res > VLC > DragonFly > IE800 was simply the best sounding recorded music I'd ever heard and made the hairs stand up on the back of my neck!
   
  Id love to recreate that sensation for more listening but I need to find which part if the chain has the biggest impact. From what I've heard there are a lot if variables - but I have a plan!  Going to find somewhere with stock of a few different dacs and source a SD and HD version of the same recording to do some comparisons of:
   
  - different players
  - iFi iDac & iCan / Dragonfly / centrance hifi m8 / fostex hpp1 (if I can find somewhere with all three)
  - SD and HD
   
  That should nail it!


----------



## yfei

I still think first you should do the 44.1k lossless test again, using the same software (foobar), make sure output res setting are the same (44.1k) for both internal sound card and dragonfly.
   
  I haven't tried MacBook Air, but I heard it's sound quality is pretty good.   Much better than MacBook Pro, I have MBP 17, the sound is horrible, and unacceptable hiss level.
  In all my computers, the best internal DAC is Dell XPS Studio 9000, I have to say difference from DragonFly is pretty small.  Only after 2 days careful listening I can start to appreciate the difference.  compared to that, DragonFly has cleaner mids, smoother, slightly warmer, more musical and pleasing.    But, the PC's internal DAC projects a easier to understand sound stage, while DragonFly's sound stage is slightly 'confusing', due to it's smoothness.
   
  I'll say, compared to >$1000 DACs, the only real big disadvantage of DragonFly is power.  For phones like 300ohms Senn 600, this will be a factor.  But for IEM like IE8/ IE800, this shouldn't be a factor at all.
   
  Compared to the really great ESS Sabre based DAC+AMP like Anedio D2,    DragonFly share the same sound signature: same kind of smoothness, musical.     But Anedio is cleaner, more textured.
  If Dell XPS Studio 9000 has a score 0,     and Anedio D2 has a score 100,    then DragonFly is somewhere at 80, or 90.   
Put it another way, if upgrading from XPS 9000 to DragonFly gave me a boost of 10 miles,     then upgrade again to $1000+ DAC will give another boost of 1 or 2 miles.
   
   
   
   
   
  Quote: 





hungrydave said:


> Folks, these are really helpful responses, thanks. Gives me lots to think about.
> 
> Guess my feeling was it wasn't worth the upgrade based on not being able to discern any notable difference in quality listening to my current collection in my normal player.  My high res collection is non existent - I just downloaded a few test tracks off the web to see what difference it made (a lot seems to be the answer).
> 
> ...


----------



## kryten123

Does anyone else have problems controlling and fine tuning the volume with the DF?
   
  I find that the volume goes from quiet to really loud in just a few increments of the volume slider.
   
  I play music through Mediamonkey on my PC and whether I adjust the volume of MM or the PC, the slider is very low down as otherwise it gets way too loud very quickly.
  With the volume bar being almost at the bottom of the slider, it is hard to find the right level as it is either too quiet or too loud.
   
  I am using Ultrasone Pro900 with the DF - my IEMs are impossible to find the right level of volume.


----------



## Whippler

Yeah I don't like that too much either, but for me when I use volume keys on my keyboard, the volume goes 0, 2, 4... 100. (could be kb/win 8 related) With the slider you can go 0, 1, 2, 3... 

I have been wondering since the windows volume goes from 0 to 100 and Dragonfly has 64 step volume control, how does it scale to the windows slider? Also @volume 0 I can still hear the music pretty good. I tend to listen to between levels 2-15

Sent from my Desire Z using Tapatalk 2


----------



## kryten123

Quote: 





> Also @volume 0 I can still hear the music pretty good. I tend to listen to between levels 2-15
> 
> Sent from my Desire Z using Tapatalk 2


 
  Yes I've noticed that even at practically 0 I can hear music....its just quite hard to set the volume to a decent, yet comfortable level....especially if you forget to take the focus away from the volume in MM and then scroll up the page...and instead crank the volume up and have to mess about again resetting to a decent level.
  I thought it might have been something I was\wasnt doing.


----------



## Lace'd Taste

> Currawong: Nice one. I'd suggest doing what I did, which is get an Aurorasound Bus Power Pro, USB B-to-A adaptor and powering the Dragonfly that way. You'll get quite a bit of improvement in the sound. There are other, similar devices designed to provide better USB power but that is what I have on hand at the moment.


 
   
  Can't find this "Aurorasound Bus Power Pro, USB B-to-A adaptor" anywhere on the net.  What exactly does it do?  Supply more power to the dragonfly?  Or retains a more constant, reliable voltage?  (not to sure on how these things work although i find with my Macbook Pro i get the odd spark on my port side and my external display will cut out and restart itself - don't want that happening whilst the dragonfly is connected)


----------



## DrTone

Quote: 





kryten123 said:


> Yes I've noticed that even at practically 0 I can hear music....its just quite hard to set the volume to a decent, yet comfortable level....especially if you forget to take the focus away from the volume in MM and then scroll up the page...and instead crank the volume up and have to mess about again resetting to a decent level.
> I thought it might have been something I was\wasnt doing.


 
   
  Seems odd to own nice cans, a great little USB dac and then limit yourself to MM as player.  Give J River Media Center (JRMC) a try it's worth every penny, I've converted many of my MM user friends.
   
  You can configure JRMC to control system volume.  I then use the volume function keys on my keyboard and get the full single increment control over the 64 step analog volume of the dragonfly.


----------



## kryten123

Quote: 





drtone said:


> Seems odd to own nice cans, a great little USB dac and then limit yourself to MM as player.  Give J River Media Center (JRMC) a try it's worth every penny, I've converted many of my MM user friends.
> 
> You can configure JRMC to control system volume.  I then use the volume function keys on my keyboard and get the full single increment control over the 64 step analog volume of the dragonfly.


 
   
  I didn't think I was limiting myself with MM - it seems to do everything I need.
  I have installed JMRC but never got around to testing it. I'll have to give it another go.


----------



## vhobhstr

If I plug a TRRS headset (like the Sony XBA-3iP) into the DragonFly, will stereo music play through it properly? Or will one of the contacts inside the DragonFly connect with the microphone's part of the plug, thus causing problems?


----------



## drummerdimitri

I am seriously considering one to replace my headmap pico upsampling usb audio dac but I am not sure if I will notice a sound quality improvement in the dragonfly. Can anyone help me out with this?


----------



## BobJS

Hey guys, thought I'd ask a question here since I absolutely adore the dragonfly.  This may have been discussed before but I probably wasn't paying attention.  I just got a new PC which, unlike my last one, has Coax and Optical S/PDIF out.  I love the dragonfly performance into my Lyr.  Question: How does something like a Schiit Bifrost for S/PDIF compare with USB-> Dragonfly?  Will I hear any benefit?  Or perhaps another DAC?


----------



## MickeyVee

I much prefer the Bifrost into the Lyr than the Dragonfly.  If you have optical and/or coax, the Bifrost without the USB option is a steal. There will be a good benefit to the Bifrost but I wouldn't say night and day. More defined bass and smoother, clearer mids and highs with a little less grain.
  What headphones are you using? I can hear a definite difference with my HD700 but when I had the HE400, not so sure.
  Quote: 





bobjs said:


> Hey guys, thought I'd ask a question here since I absolutely adore the dragonfly.  This may have been discussed before but I probably wasn't paying attention.  I just got a new PC which, unlike my last one, has Coax and Optical S/PDIF out.  I love the dragonfly performance into my Lyr.  Question: How does something like a Schiit Bifrost for S/PDIF compare with USB-> Dragonfly?  Will I hear any benefit?  Or perhaps another DAC?


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> I much prefer the Bifrost into the Lyr than the Dragonfly.  If you have optical and/or coax, the Bifrost without the USB option is a steal. There will be a good benefit to the Bifrost but I wouldn't say night and day. More defined bass and smoother, clearer mids and highs with a little less grain.
> What headphones are you using? I can hear a definite difference with my HD700 but when I had the HE400, not so sure.


 

 I'm rotating between Beyer T1, HE-500, HD600 and Mad Dogs.  I think you told me what I needed to hear --- Think I'll spring for a USB-less Bifrost


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





lace'd taste said:


> > Currawong: Nice one. I'd suggest doing what I did, which is get an Aurorasound Bus Power Pro, USB B-to-A adaptor and powering the Dragonfly that way. You'll get quite a bit of improvement in the sound. There are other, similar devices designed to provide better USB power but that is what I have on hand at the moment.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  http://aurorasound.jp/buspower.html
   
  It requires an adaptor though. I saw that there's an iUSB device available too from here:
   
  http://www.ifi-audio.com/en/iUSB.html
   
  which does a similar thing, but an adaptor wouldn't be required. No idea about the price.
   
  All of them supply better USB power than a computer will. However, one might argue that it's simply easier to get a better DAC with a proper power supply in the first place. If driving headphones, Getting something overall better in both regards should be considered.


----------



## Foxjam

Sorry if this has already been answered somewhere in the thread but can anyone tell me if this would work with the Microsoft Surface RT?  I'm assuming it would but would hate to find out otherwise the hard way.


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Quote: 





foxjam said:


> Sorry if this has already been answered somewhere in the thread but can anyone tell me if this would work with the Microsoft Surface RT?  I'm assuming it would but would hate to find out otherwise the hard way.


 
   
  I don't see why not.  It has a full USB port with all the drivers needed.  Some people have had problems with Windows 8 though...
   
  I wanted the Pro and was seriously considering for notes at school and my portable audio device with my Dragonfly until I saw the price.  Way too expensive for something as limited as it is.  The RT is too limited for 500$; I guess I will continue limping along with my Android tablet.


----------



## BobinNJ

Any idea if the Bus Power will be available in the US?  Looks like the perfect solution for my HiFace.


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Well this is disappointing.  The rep at Audio Adviser tested the Dragonfly he was going to send out and it was having the same problem as I am.  No high-rez.  It was the leather case, which someone else had with the same problem.  My bet is they did a revision that isn't so great.


----------



## itshot

So I've been looking around and about this thread and can't seem to find a clear-cut answer...
   
  Can the Dragonfly be used as a standalone DAC... yes or no?


----------



## RUMAY408

Quote: 





itshot said:


> So I've been looking around and about this thread and can't seem to find a clear-cut answer...
> 
> Can the Dragonfly be used as a standalone DAC... yes or no?


 
  Can you define stand alone.  What is the digital source you hope to convert from.


----------



## vhobhstr

Quote: 





vhobhstr said:


> If I plug a TRRS headset (like the Sony XBA-3iP) into the DragonFly, will stereo music play through it properly? Or will one of the contacts inside the DragonFly connect with the microphone's part of the plug, thus causing problems?


 
   
  I'll answer my own question. I got a DragonFly today, and it does work with an iPhone headset.


----------



## LAmitchell

Quote: 





itshot said:


> So I've been looking around and about this thread and can't seem to find a clear-cut answer...
> 
> Can the Dragonfly be used as a standalone DAC... yes or no?


 
   
  yep, of course it can. it can be used as a head-amp, or as a line out (recommended full volume).


----------



## itshot

rumay408 said:


> Can you define stand alone.  What is the digital source you hope to convert from.


 

   
  Like a laptop... to an desktop amp? Kinda like an ODAC lol
   
  Though wouldn't it technically be double amping, or is there some mechanism by which the onboard amp can be bypassed?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





lamitchell said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  You just set the computer volume to Max and then let the amp volume control do the job.


----------



## CoiL

Maybe dumb question but need fast answer, is this thingy capable delivering audio @ Android?


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Quote: 





coil said:


> Maybe dumb question but need fast answer, is this thingy capable delivering audio @ Android?


 
   
  I have read in multiple places that you cannot as it pulls too much power.  I have not done any tests myself though.
   
  Tapatalk refused to send this morning or I would have replied sooner...


----------



## yfei

I have no luck, there is no sound out.    
   
  Setup:   Samsung Galaxy Note II phone,   with OTG (on the go) USB cable.      The power shouldn't be a problem, because the $10 USB cable I bought connects 3 things together: usb charger, phone and DF.  The USB wall charger provides extra power to the DF.
   
  Result:   DF turns pink, which is not too bad.   Note II seems detected something, because when playing music Note II's internal speaker silent.
  But DF is also silent.
   
  I guess android doesn't have driver for this kind of usb audio device.   Maybe wait for 4.2.2 and see.
   
   
   
   
   
  Quote: 





coil said:


> Maybe dumb question but need fast answer, is this thingy capable delivering audio @ Android?


----------



## longbowbbs

DF in action...
  .
  24/192 FLAC lossless files on portable drive, JRiver 18, DF, HD800's......


----------



## MickeyVee

DF with the HD800? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I though the HD800 was one of the pickiest phones with amps.  How is it?
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> DF in action...
> .
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> DF with the HD800?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I am enjoying it MV...Sometimes the HD800's rep for being analytical and picky gets way overstated. Granted, I was using hi rez files.


----------



## MickeyVee

Wow.. on the other hand, I enjoy it with the HD700.. might audition with the HD800 someday just for giggles.
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I am enjoying it MV...Sometimes the HD800's rep for being analytical and picky gets way overstated. Granted, I was using hi rez files.


----------



## Whippler

Quote: 





yfei said:


> I have no luck, there is no sound out.
> 
> Setup:   Samsung Galaxy Note II phone,   with OTG (on the go) USB cable.      The power shouldn't be a problem, because the $10 USB cable I bought connects 3 things together: usb charger, phone and DF.  The USB wall charger provides extra power to the DF.
> 
> ...


 
  you might wanna try with an app, USB audio recorder, it can playback to a usb device.


----------



## yfei

Tried it,  still no luck,    USB Audio Recorder PRO can not recognize DF as playback device.
  Anyone succeeded?
   
  Quote: 





whippler said:


> you might wanna try with an app, USB audio recorder, it can playback to a usb device.


----------



## Alexsander

My setup DragonFly:
   
   
   
   
  Real photo here:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/617241/audioquest-dragonfly-review-affordable-outstanding-tiny-dac-amp/825#post_8949619


----------



## unseen

I hide under a rock away from this place every other year or so for my own sanity so I'm just now discovering this thing. Looking to replace my nuforce udac with one. I use the nuforce for iems as well as mini to rca'ing to my audioengine a5's but as the dragonfly only has one input, would I just plug the mini to rca in and plug the headphones in the input of my a5's? I know it's also as simple as just switching back and forth between the headphone jack and the rca but if I'd like to keep my connection to both steady as I like to just switch back and forth using soundsource, is this the way to go about it? I've never done a setup that involves plugging headphones into speakers so I'm just doublechecking here. Even better if anyone reading this is doing the same thing


----------



## CoiL

Quote: 





gidgiddonihah said:


> I have read in multiple places that you cannot as it pulls too much power.  I have not done any tests myself though.
> 
> Tapatalk refused to send this morning or I would have replied sooner...


 
  So you are saying that it is capable and everything works ok if there is enough power? What about external power feed mod (Lithium battery or something)?


----------



## lextek

Just picked one up at Best Buy.  Looking forward to try it with Macbook/Audirvana Plus.  I think they should come with the Dragon Tail.  Seems like it would be easy to bump it if you use a laptop as a laptop.


----------



## lextek

So far I am pretty, impressed by this little thing.  I'm on a Macbook with Audirvana Plus, HD600/Cardas.  Listened to some HD Tracks and was really impressed.  Still want a Dragontail


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Quote: 





coil said:


> So you are saying that it is capable and everything works ok if there is enough power? What about external power feed mod (Lithium battery or something)?


 
   
  I guess not.... 
     
  Quote:


yfei said:


> I have no luck, there is no sound out.
> 
> Setup:   Samsung Galaxy Note II phone,   with OTG (on the go) USB cable.      The power shouldn't be a problem, because the $10 USB cable I bought connects 3 things together: usb charger, phone and DF.  The USB wall charger provides extra power to the DF.
> 
> ...


 

   
  If I had a OTG cable and a powered hub I would test with my mom's S3 but I would guess my results would be the same as yfei's.


----------



## gidgiddonihah

I tried 88.2 with Media Monkey and WASAPI (Foobar wouldn't output the sound in WASAPI) on my broken Dragonfly and it worked perfectly.  Guess its a clock issue like the Audioquest guy was saying.  Still fighting to get a new one sent to me that works.  Hopefully I can get the rep at Audio Advisor to test another one and send it to me tomorrow.  I really just want a working one and get this thing solved.


----------



## weroflu

I had some problems with a DF purchased a few months ago, read some posts on other forums that they had qc issues perhaps in their earlier units.
  Sent it back to dealer and got a replacement today. Now I get no audio whatsoever.
   
  I tried it on two windows machines aside from my linux box: one I got no audio, the other it turned blue while playing 44.1k files and I had to hold it tightly in the usb port in order to get any audo. If i just let it sit in the port without holding it no audio or digital hash.
   
  So I think I'm throwing in the towel on this one even though the first one sounded great, but I could only get it to play 44.1k files.
   
  The higher sample rates would sometimes play if I jiggled it in the usb port, but then it would cut out.
   
  Initially I was thinking the problems were linux related but since I had bad experiences on windows as well I'm thinking that I wasn't meant for this device or I got 2 duds in a row.


----------



## blacknile

Quote: 





nxmehta said:


> I'm trying to use my Dragonfly with Linux (Ubuntu 12.04 and Debian Sid both) and I'm seeing a strange problem.  I can select the DAC via pulseaudio, but when the volume is <100% and I plug my quite sensitive IE8 IEMs in the volume is very very low.  When I set the volume == 100%, the sound is so loud that you can literally hear it one room away.  I thought I was going to go deaf for a second there.  I had no idea IEMs could get that loud.  Has anyone seen this problem with the DF and Linux?  Right now the device is completely unusable for me.  I have tested it in Windows 7 x64 and it works fine, but I bought this for my Linux laptop which has atrocious noise on the headphone port.
> 
> Are there any special drivers or anything I should be looking into?  If I emailed AudioQuest do you think they would help me out?
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks a lot for this fix, I was actually just having the same problem with a HRT headstreamer - it is now working perfectly with ALSA/pulseaudio! Cheers


----------



## judmarc

blacknile said:


> Thanks a lot for this fix, I was actually just having the same problem with a HRT headstreamer - it is now working perfectly with ALSA/pulseaudio! Cheers




ALSA alone I've found to be more convenient for audio than ALSA with PulseAudio. Folks may want to look at Ubuntu variants like Lubuntu that are relatively stripped down and don't include PulseAudio as part of the default install.


----------



## judmarc

Double post removed.


----------



## MickeyVee

I'm even more impressed with the DF than before.  I auditioned and picked up a pair of HiFiMAN HE500 today and the primary reason was how surprisingly good they sounded with the DF. Anyway, if you're interested in reading the story of the audition and purchase, you can find it here...
post #402


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> I'm even more impressed with the DF than before.  I auditioned and picked up a pair of HiFiMAN HE500 today and the primary reason was how surprisingly good they sounded with the DF. Anyway, if you're interested in reading the story of the audition and purchase, you can find it here...
> post #402


 
   
  I was wondering how well it paired with the HE-500.  Read a couple of posts that commented on how the combination sounded less than it could be.


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Audio Adviser is sending one over USPS Priority Mail.  Supposed to work as the rep who has been helping me nonstop tested it and it worked. Should be here Saturday for any of those wondering.  I'll post what happens 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
   
  (Edit) After testing a 44100 and a 96000 I haven't ran into any troubles.  I plan on doing further testing and will update if anyone cares 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Replacement Dragonfly is still running great.  Random question: has anyone tried it with their PS3?  
   
  My dad wants 5.1 audio with Netflix (web player does not do 5.1), good MLB.TV support (web player blows), and the ability to stream our collection of FLAC files to his hi-fi speaker system.  I have looked at the Apple TV which obviously wouldn't work, WDTV Live, Roku box, etc.  With the exception of the Roku box (pre-amp does not have HDMI which means no 5.1) all fit the first two criterion but not the last.
   
  Thinking of having him get a Mac Mini to stick a Dragonfly or the new Meridian to his system for music and getting him an Apple TV for his video needs.  But that seems like a really expensive option which leaves me at the PS3 which has the possibility of doing all three things for a much lower price tag.


----------



## JFraser

How does the audio supplied by the Audioquest Dragonfly stack up against that of my late 2011 13 inch MacBook Pro?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





jfraser said:


> How does the audio supplied by the Audioquest Dragonfly stack up against that of my late 2011 13 inch MacBook Pro?


 
  When using a better level of headphone (Sennheiser HD25, HD650, HD800, ACS T1 CIEM's) the DF is a nice upgrade from stock MBPro.


----------



## lextek

I've been using the DF with an older Macbook with Senheisser HD600s and love it.  I am amazed how far DACs have come.  I am also using Audirvana Plus.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





lextek said:


> I've been using the DF with an older Macbook with Senheisser HD600s and love it.  I am amazed how far DACs have come.  I am also using Audirvana Plus.


 
  I am using Amarra. Dacs have come a long way.


----------



## Limniscate

I A/B'ed this DAC next to my brother's ASUS Essence One.  Although I liked the Essence One better, I wouldn't pay the extra money for it.


----------



## rbf1138

So if my two options would be to buy a DF to use with my MacBook Air or to buy a Dacport LX and output to a Headstage Arrow, what would you guys suggest? Could I also output the DF to the Arrow? What should I do?!?


----------



## longbowbbs

Enjoying the DF and the MBPro right now. It is fine for a desktop rig. Really comes down to portability.


----------



## Leong428

After reading online reviews and only hearing good things about the Dragonfly, I decided the bite the bullet and get this instead of the Meridian Explorer As this was on Amazon Prime (Free expedited delivery for me). I like more detail in my music and don't mind if it's at the cost of being "more balanced". Did I make the right choice getting this? (it won't arrive till Monday and I'm excited!  )


----------



## DannyBai

Quote: 





leong428 said:


> After reading online reviews and only hearing good things about the Dragonfly, I decided the bite the bullet and get this instead of the Meridian Explorer As this was on Amazon Prime (Free expedited delivery for me). I like more detail in my music and don't mind if it's at the cost of being "more balanced". Did I make the right choice getting this? (it won't arrive till Monday and I'm excited!  )


 
   
  I'm sure the Meridian is a nice product but I skipped it since I have and enjoy the DF already.


----------



## lextek

I have been exremely happy with my DF.  Used as a DAC or driving my Sennheiser HD600s out of my Macbook.  One of my better purchases.


----------



## jherbert

Quote: 





leong428 said:


> After reading online reviews and only hearing good things about the Dragonfly, I decided the bite the bullet and get this instead of the Meridian Explorer As this was on Amazon Prime (Free expedited delivery for me). I like more detail in my music and don't mind if it's at the cost of being "more balanced". Did I make the right choice getting this? (it won't arrive till Monday and I'm excited!  )


 
   
  Haven't had a chance to audition the Meridian, but the design ogf the headphone amp was deeply flawed in the first production run. Output impedance was 40 ohms which means it is not usable for multidriver ba's and low impedance headphones. They changed the design in the meantime to make that five ohms. I fear that such a design flaw in a major aspect tells a lot about the approach a company takes in general. Boutique parts do not help if the basics are done wrong. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## Aerocraft67

Quote: 





leong428 said:


> After reading online reviews and only hearing good things about the Dragonfly, I decided the bite the bullet and get this instead of the Meridian Explorer As this was on Amazon Prime (Free expedited delivery for me). I like more detail in my music and don't mind if it's at the cost of being "more balanced". Did I make the right choice getting this? (it won't arrive till Monday and I'm excited!  )


 
   
  I evaluated them both and went with the Explorer, but from what you say of your priorities here, sounds like you made the right choice.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





dannybai said:


> I'm sure the Meridian is a nice product but I skipped it since I have and enjoy the DF already.


 
   
  I have the DF, the Meridian, and the HRT Microstreamer.  I've owned the DF since last summer and have in excess of 500 hours on it.
   
  The DF does seem to consume less power and the form factor is awesome, but sonically the latter two play in a different ballpark and the DF will be sold.  Even with the impedance issues on the ME I still find it superior to the DF when driving my 334s (3 way crossover BA IEMS doing about 42 ohms at 1k).


----------



## lextek

Looks like I'll have to try the Meridian when things settle down.  I had there G08 CD player which was awesome.  I think that's the right name/number.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





lextek said:


> Looks like I'll have to try the Meridian when things settle down.  I had there G08 CD player which was awesome.  I think that's the right name/number.


 
   
  And let's not forgot the Microstreamer, which I feel is the real unsung hero.  I could possibly end up preferring it even over the corrected ME when I get it in a few weeks.  And it's the cheapest to boot.
   
  The DF was great when it came out last summer but seriously folks, the competition has caught up to and passed it.  I made many comments early on in this thread how I still preferred the ODAC/O2 combo to the DF by a good margin and the choice to keep the DF was mostly a convenience thing.  I'm not sure that would be the case with these newer units.


----------



## lextek

It would take a lot for me to give up my little Dragonfly.  The only other DAC I own is Cambridge Audio DACMagic.  Which now seems dated.  Still sounds great and has multiple inputs.  Two different animals.  The DF showed be how far DACs have come.  Asynchronous USB is the way to go, but I most are these days.


----------



## DannyBai

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> And let's not forgot the Microstreamer, which I feel is the real unsung hero.  I could possibly end up preferring it even over the corrected ME when I get it in a few weeks.  And it's the cheapest to boot.
> 
> The DF was great when it came out last summer but seriously folks, the competition has caught up to and passed it.  I made many comments early on in this thread how I still preferred the ODAC/O2 combo to the DF by a good margin and the choice to keep the DF was mostly a convenience thing.  I'm not sure that would be the case with these newer units.


 
  Thanks for sharing bobeau.  I've also been very tempted by the microstreamer as well.  Please let us know after you receive the corrected ME, if that or the microstreamer is more preferable to your needs.


----------



## Leong428

Thank you for the brilliant replies everyone. Bobeau I'm interested to hear what aspects the ME outperforms the DF in your experience?


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





leong428 said:


> Thank you for the brilliant replies everyone. Bobeau I'm interested to hear what aspects the ME outperforms the DF in your experience?


 
   
  With the higher impedance unit it's probably a tossup based on what you're driving it with.  As it is stands w/ my 334s the bass is somewhat reduced but there is better control and clarity there (which is odd because technically it should be the other way around) and the mids are significantly more transparent - there's a congestion in the mids I find w/ the DF on most phones I've tried that I'm not finding with these.  That said the frequency response is a bit wonky, it's a bit too mid-centric w/ the ME.  The Microstreamer seems to correct that but might give up a slight bit of depth and detail to the ME, yet it has it over the DF in almost every aspect (tightness/impact in the bass, clarity in mids, detail, imaging, etc).  
   
  Basically, the ME sounds like a different type of product, moving more toward the analytical realm.  I'm thinking it is going to be quite stunning with the impedance reduction, and probably an ideal match for the warmish 334s (but 5 ohms is going to be still too high for alot of IEMs).  The MS sounds like a better version of the DF, how I imagine the next iteration of the DF would sound, or perhaps how the DF sounds now with an external power supply.


----------



## acti0n

AQ recommends keeping the media player at maximum and using the OS volume controls. What if it's too loud at the minimum volume setting -- is there any way to reduce the gain?


----------



## Leong428

Got my DF today, installed Fidelity (for spotify) and ASIO to get the most out of it. 
   
  This really sounds incredible! The sheer difference they make together is just immense it sounds like the music came out of different speakers. 
  Bass is tighter, instruments are better separated and music sounds less compressed.
   
  Thanks again for the input everyone, I'm very happy with this product, well worth the price


----------



## LAmitchell

Yeah, the MERIDIAN is all the rave right now, but from what I read, it doesn't beat the dragonfly by a whole lot.
   
  So, I'm keeping my cute little DRAGONFLY for at least 12 months so that when I switch up to a new/better DAC, it will be something amazing (that hasn't even been invented yet!)


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Still loving my (third) replacement DF.  I tried it with my new PS3 and, to my dismay, it doesn't work 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  When I was reading reviews about the Meridian I think I remember them talking about more detail and the bass was more refined but the differences were small at best.  But I could be wrong.  I read lots of reviews 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   


leong428 said:


> Got my DF today, installed Fidelity (for spotify) and ASIO to get the most out of it.


 
   
  How do you like it?  The developer stated the next update would be later than his ETA and he would update the ETA on the website.  That was three, almost four, months ago so I don't hold out much hope for updates anymore.  I find it a bit buggy, but once things start to play it really shows off what Spotify can (and can't) do.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





lamitchell said:


> Yeah, the MERIDIAN is all the rave right now, but from what I read, it doesn't beat the dragonfly by a whole lot.


 
   
  Quote: 





gidgiddonihah said:


> When I was reading reviews about the Meridian I think I remember them talking about more detail and the bass was more refined but the differences were small at best.


 
   
  References?  I can't recall anyone saying that it was like splitting hairs, either in pro reviews or on Head-fi.  The differences are substantial - even if it comes down to preferences, to my ears they go for a different type of sound.  Clearly the headphone out impedance issue is (was) a problem.


----------



## rbf1138

Just decided to return my new Dragonfly, and I'm waiting for the HRT Microstreamer, which I'll then choose between that and a DACport LX I also just got.


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> References?  I can't recall anyone saying that it was like splitting hairs, either in pro reviews or on Head-fi.  The differences are substantial - even if it comes down to preferences, to my ears they go for a different type of sound.  Clearly the headphone out impedance issue is (was) a problem.


 
   
  If you would have read my post I made it clear I was going off memory and a bad one at that.


----------



## Leong428

Quote: 





gidgiddonihah said:


> Still loving my (third) replacement DF.  I tried it with my new PS3 and, to my dismay, it doesn't work
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Personally, I love it. The main problem I had with my current pair of speakers (Logitech Z553) was the bass being too boomy. The DF cleaned it up GOOD! It really tightened up the bass and the timbre of instruments are a lot more distinct. I really like the form factor as well which makes it so easy to bring along when I travel.
  Fidelify + ASIO just brings it to the next level. Everything sounds a lot more detailed compared to playing music off the Spotify app. There are drawback though: I can't seemed to find my "Starred" list, it crashes on large long subscribed playlists, and it seems to be "hogging" my DF. When I play music on Fidelity, other applications seem to output sound from my laptop speakers instead.
  Because of this, I still use Spotify for discovering music, but switch over to Fidelity when I want to enjoy specific playlists. Hope the developer picks up the project again


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Quote: 





leong428 said:


> 1. There are drawback though: it seems to be "hogging" my DF. When I play music on Fidelity, other applications seem to output sound from my laptop speakers instead.
> 
> 2. Because of this, I still use Spotify for discovering music, but switch over to Fidelity when I want to enjoy specific playlists. Hope the developer picks up the project again


 
   
  1. That is because ASIO bypasses the Windows Mixer.  By doing this it mutes all other stuff coming into that device.  ASIO must send the signal to the other active device. I use WASAPI which ends up just muting everything which is what I like best. Plus you don't have to download extra stuff and set it all up.
   
  2. Exactly what I do.


----------



## x838nwy

Guys,
   
  I'm enjoying the Dragonfly and have been for a couple of weeks now. However, I've just looked at it today and I'm a bit worried about the colours of the LED...
   
  I know it changes colour according to the file being played etc. However, when I plug it, the LED is green. Now when I play my iTunes-purchased file (AAC. 44.1kHz) and the light went sort of purple. Then when I play a clip for youtube - which can't be the same sampling freq. seriously?) it stays the same colour. Going back to a sample from HDTracks through iTunes (24/96kHz) and it's still the same colour.
   
  So, I put a CD into my MacBookPro. Played it through iTunes. SURELY this has to be 16/44.1kHz. Nope, still purple.
   
  I can't remember the color vs. freq. exactly, but I thought 44.1 = green and 96kHz = purple, or something.
   
  Am I understanding this the wrong way? Please help.
   
  Thanks,
   
  C


----------



## Battlescarze

*What does it mean when the DragonFly lights up in different colors?*
 As mentioned above, DragonFly performs best when audio data is sent to it at its native sample rate. To simplify this, DragonFly lights up different colors when it receives audio data at different sample rates: green for 44.1kHz, blue for 48kHz, amber for 88.2kHz, and magenta for 96kHz.

  http://www.audioquest.com/usb_digital_analog_converter/faqs
   
  Hi x838nwy,
   
  Straight from the website...


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





x838nwy said:


> Guys,
> 
> I'm enjoying the Dragonfly and have been for a couple of weeks now. However, I've just looked at it today and I'm a bit worried about the colours of the LED...


 
   
  You've got it right.  But check out Audio MIDI Setup, which can lock it in at a particular sample rate (ie. forcing upsampling).


----------



## JakeJack_2008

Quote: 





battlescarze said:


> *What does it mean when the DragonFly lights up in different colors?*
> As mentioned above, DragonFly performs best when audio data is sent to it at its native sample rate. To simplify this, DragonFly lights up different colors when it receives audio data at different sample rates: green for 44.1kHz, blue for 48kHz, amber for 88.2kHz, and magenta for 96kHz.
> 
> http://www.audioquest.com/usb_digital_analog_converter/faqs
> ...


 
  What is DragonFly's *native sample rate*?
  Perhaps, it means that anything _over _the (24-bit) *96kHz* must be _downsampled._
  The 176.4 kHz and 192 kHz must be _cleanly downsampled to the _88.2 kHz and 96 kHz respectively,
  and the 88.2 kHz and 96 kHz in turn  are processed  by the Dragonfly (shall I use the word -->) _natively?_


----------



## JakeJack_2008

Quote: 





x838nwy said:


> Guys,
> 
> I'm enjoying the Dragonfly and have been for a couple of weeks now. However, I've just looked at it today and I'm a bit worried about the colours of the LED...
> 
> ...


 
  I was also puzzled when reading about this. Someone said on this site, and perhaps in this interesting  thread,
  that the Dragonfly does *NOT *_automatically _detect/sense sampling rates.
  For instance, if you *set  *your audio on Windows 7 *to *24-bit/96 kHz and you are feeding your precious Dragonlfy
  with a regular 16-bit/44.1 kHz the Dragonlfy LED will be purple and not green (as should be in the case of the Red Book CD  audio).
  So, what it means the Dragonfly _only confirms _that you set your audio to 24-bit/96 kHz on Windows since  the Dragonfly is _not _able to  check whether the actual audio stream fed into it is, say, 24-bit/96 kHz or 16-bit/44.1 kHz.
  By the same token, _perhaps  _much worse is happening _in this case_, namely the Dragonfly is processing your 24-bit/96 kHz high res  audio as the 16-bit/44.1 kHz audio.
   
  So, perhaps the safest way, is to set the audio at *24-bit/96 kHz. *
  In such a case, you don't need to remember  or worry about it any more.
  Can someone comment on this?
   
   
  I think that the same is happening with my ODAC. On Windows 7 I set the audio to the *24-bit/96 kHz *as suggested by JDS Labs. Period.
  (The ODAC does not have any glowing LEDs.)
   
   
  P.S.
  This is not a big problem, because we don't quite hear the 24-bit/96 kHz, not to mention the 24-bit/192 kHz.
  Nevertheles, we would all feel _psychologically _better seeing the purple (indicating the 24-bit/96 kHz) LED on 
  even if playing an MP3 file.


----------



## gidgiddonihah

The only way in Windows that I have found for the light to change to the right color is to use WASAPI which bypasses the Windows mixer.  That means Windows has nothing to do with it and can't try to up or downsample the data and the Dragonfly can read the correct sample rate.  This is due to the setting that the instruction booklet talks about.  When you set it you are setting the sample rate Windows will force audio to.  That means even if you play a 192 file and have it set to 48, it will play 48 and the Dragonfly will light up blue for all non-WASAPI/ASIO routed content because it's the sample rate its being fed.


----------



## x838nwy

Thank you guys for the replies. I'm sadly on a MacBook which (as far as I know) does not allow me to set the sampling rate. Does my mac just pumps every thing out at 96kHz or something?
   
  Thank you
   
  C


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





x838nwy said:


> Thank you guys for the replies. I'm sadly on a MacBook which (as far as I know) does not allow me to set the sampling rate. Does my mac just pumps every thing out at 96kHz or something?
> 
> Thank you
> 
> C


 
   
  No, you absolutely can.  As I said above "But check out Audio MIDI Setup, which can lock it in at a particular sample rate (ie. forcing upsampling)."


----------



## x838nwy

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> No, you absolutely can.  As I said above "But check out Audio MIDI Setup, which can lock it in at a particular sample rate (ie. forcing upsampling)."


 
   
   
  Okay, I just looked into the matter and found the Midi thing. Thanks!
   
  Is there any downsides to setting it permanently to a higher value?


----------



## Krutsch

Quote: 





x838nwy said:


> Okay, I just looked into the matter and found the Midi thing. Thanks!
> 
> Is there any downsides to setting it permanently to a higher value?


 
   
  Maybe.  If you set it to a higher value, CoreAudio (software provided by Apple for driving audio) will upsample everything to whatever you set the values to (bit depth and sample rate).  Whether you can hear the difference is something that others will debate endlessly.
   
  If you have AAC, MP3 and/or lossless audio ripped from CDs, set it to 44.1 kHz, 24-bit and leave it.  If you have high resolution audio (i.e. 88.2 or 96kHz, 24-bit), then look into something that automatically switches things for you, based on the music file's resolution.  Bitperfect (look for it on the Apple App store) is the cheapest solution for this and it really works well.


----------



## JakeJack_2008

Quote: 





gidgiddonihah said:


> The only way in Windows that I have found for the light to change to the right color is to use WASAPI which bypasses the Windows mixer.  That means Windows has nothing to do with it and can't try to up or downsample the data and the Dragonfly can read the correct sample rate.  This is due to the setting that the instruction booklet talks about.  When you set it you are setting the sample rate Windows will force audio to.  That means even if you play a 192 file and have it set to 48, it will play 48 and the Dragonfly will light up blue for all non-WASAPI/ASIO routed content because it's the sample rate its being fed.


 
  So, when one uses the WASAPI/ASIO stuff (i.e. _bypassing _the Windows mixer) the Dragonfly will detect/read the _correct _sample rate *automatically*. - It's good to know it. Thanx.


----------



## gefski

jakejack_2008 said:


> I
> 
> So, perhaps the safest way, is to set the audio at *24-bit/96 kHz.*
> In such a case, you don't need to remember  or worry about it any more.
> Can someone comment on this?




In my setup, Windows 7, Jplay mini, Dragonfly, it works just as it should. Using Control Panel-Properties-Advanced,44k file setting and playing an actual 44k file, it is green. At the moment I change the setting to 96k it turns purple, but if I then play the actual 44k file, the moment playback starts, it turns green, correctly recognizing the 44k file. Accordingly, I believe Windows should be set for the file to be played in each case.


----------



## lextek

Playing around today with my iPad and Dragonfly.  Got it working.  Don't think I would make it through an airport with it....


----------



## JakeJack_2008

Quote: 





gefski said:


> In my setup, Windows 7, Jplay mini, Dragonfly, it works just as it should. Using Control Panel-Properties-Advanced,44k file setting and playing an actual 44k file, it is green. At the moment I change the setting to 96k it turns purple, but if I then play the actual 44k file, the moment playback starts, it turns green, correctly recognizing the 44k file. Accordingly, I believe Windows should be set for the file to be played in each case.


 
  Thanx a lot. The plain Windows 7 audio mixer is the culprit here.
   
  But this puzzles 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 me:
   
   
  Quote: 





> Accordingly, I believe Windows should be set for the file to be played in each case.


 
   
  Well, because the Drogonfly recognizes  the sampling _rate _doesn't it process the corressponding audio a_ccordingly_?


----------



## Whippler

jakejack_2008 said:


> Thanx a lot. The plain Windows 7 audio mixer is the culprit here.
> 
> But this puzzles :confused_face_2:  me:
> 
> ...




The windows default audio **** feeds the dragonfly what ever samplingrate it is set to feed. What ever file you are playing, windows down/up samples it before feeding to df, unless you are bypassing it with wasapi/asio... witch feeds the file to DF so it can recognice the samplerate.


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Quote: 





jakejack_2008 said:


> Well, because the Drogonfly recognizes  the sampling _rate _doesn't it process the corressponding audio a_ccordingly_?


 
   
  It only knows what it is being fed. Different programs handle audio differently. Some route it through the Windows mixer by default and allow WASAPI type of addons (foobar2000 would be an example), some route via WASAPI or ASIO by default (I believe JRiver is this way), and some route only through the Windows mixer (iTunes without extra software).  When fed through the Windows mixer audio will only be output at the sample rate that you have specified Windows to sample to.  When fed through WASAPI/ASIO, and there are no sampling addons active, the computer outputs the audio at the file's sampling rate.  The Dragonfly lights up the right color based on the input and outputs at that frequency rate.  It only outputs and shows the sampling rate is is fed.  So the long answer to your question is yes: it processes and displays that color based on the sampling rate it's given.


----------



## gefski

jakejack_2008 said:


> Thanx a lot. The plain Windows 7 audio mixer is the culprit here.
> 
> But this puzzles :confused_face_2:  me:
> 
> ...




I find the Audioquest whitepaper "Computer Audio Demystified" to be a pretty straightforward explanation for setting the computer for the sample rate of the file I'm going to play. Beyond that my reasoning is "...it makes sense, why not?"

They also mention several programs that automatically do it. Since I'm using Jplay Mini, and everything is manual, I change the settings as needed. The resulting playback is very musical, and I enjoy the whole process (sorta like cleaning and d-stating an lp before I play it.) Whatever makes ya smile!


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Food for thought: foobar can only output 24 bit audio to the Dragonfly.  I had re-installed Windows on my laptop and when the new install of foobar gave me errors saying my Dragonfly couldn't play 44.1 16 bit files I had a panic attack.  I re-installed foobar, the WASAPI plugin, my USB 3.0 drivers, and was about to head downstairs to try it out on my desktop when I changed the output to 24 bit and got Jack Johnson's soothing voice back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Krutsch

Quote: 





gidgiddonihah said:


> Food for thought: foobar can only output 24 bit audio to the Dragonfly.  I had re-installed Windows on my laptop and when the new install of foobar gave me errors saying my Dragonfly couldn't play 44.1 16 bit files I had a panic attack.  I re-installed foobar, the WASAPI plugin, my USB 3.0 drivers, and was about to head downstairs to try it out on my desktop when I changed the output to 24 bit and got Jack Johnson's soothing voice back
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  This is not specific to foobar, but to the DragonFly itself.  The AQ DragonFly only accepts 24-bit audio - I noticed the same behavior with my Mac and you can't even change the bit depth to 16.


----------



## JakeJack_2008

Quote: 





gidgiddonihah said:


> It only knows what it is being fed. Different programs handle audio differently. Some route it through the Windows mixer by default and allow WASAPI type of addons (foobar2000 would be an example), some route via WASAPI or ASIO by default (I believe JRiver is this way), and some route only through the Windows mixer (iTunes without extra software).  When fed through the Windows mixer audio will only be output at the sample rate that you have specified Windows to sample to.  When fed through WASAPI/ASIO, and there are no sampling addons active, the computer outputs the audio at the file's sampling rate.  The Dragonfly lights up the right color based on the input and outputs at that frequency rate.  It only outputs and shows the sampling rate is is fed.  So the long answer to your question is yes: it processes and displays that color based on the sampling rate it's given.


 
  Thanx. Finally everything _clicks_.
   
  This is what I was praying for:
   
   
  Quote: 





> Different programs handle audio differently. *Some route it through the Windows mixer by default *and allow WASAPI type of addons (foobar2000 would be an example), *some route via WASAPI or ASIO by default *(I believe JRiver is this way), and some route only through the Windows mixer ...


----------



## x838nwy

Thank you everyone for you advice. Just want to confirm: Mac + iTunes + BitPerfect = Dragonfly changing colours!!!


----------



## Krutsch

Quote: 





x838nwy said:


> Thank you everyone for you advice. Just want to confirm: Mac + iTunes + BitPerfect = Dragonfly changing colours!!!


 
   
  Correct.  This is what I am listening to now.


----------



## PhilW

Looks like Audioquest are about to launch a cool leather case for the Dragonfly! Pricing TBA.


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Quote: 





philw said:


> Looks like Audioquest are about to launch a cool leather case for the Dragonfly! Pricing TBA.


 
   
  Same case that came with both my Dragonfly replacements.  Seems like they phased the other case out when they revised the Dragonfly.


----------



## Krutsch

Quote: 





gidgiddonihah said:


> Same case that came with both my Dragonfly replacements.  Seems like they phased the other case out when they revised the Dragonfly.


 
   
  So, does that mean that if I have the drawstring bag, I have one the early DragonFly DACs w/ the line-level distortion issue (referring to the comments from the Stereophile review)?


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Quote: 





krutsch said:


> So, does that mean that if I have the drawstring bag, I have one the early DragonFly DACs w/ the line-level distortion issue (referring to the comments from the Stereophile review)?


 
   
  That would be my guess though I didn't know about such a problem. Interesting... You have any problems with yours?


----------



## Krutsch

Quote: 





gidgiddonihah said:


> That would be my guess though I didn't know about such a problem. Interesting... You have any problems with yours?


 
   
  Well, I recently tried using the DF as a line-level source into my NuForce Icon HDP.  Following AQ's directions, I turned the volume on the device all the way up for line-level output.  I really like the DragonFly as a DAC, but I though the sound was a little 'hot', to be honest - maybe even a little distorted.  After I read the Stereophile review, I was wondering if I have an early unit that overdrives at max volume.  Subsequent units (most of them) have a limited in place that forces max volume to be at 0dB (as opposed to +6dB, if I recall correctly).
   
  Maybe I should contact AQ and see about a replacement unit...


----------



## RUMAY408

Quote: 





krutsch said:


> Well, I recently tried using the DF as a line-level source into my NuForce Icon HDP.  Following AQ's directions, I turned the volume on the device all the way up for line-level output.  I really like the DragonFly as a DAC, but I though the sound was a little 'hot', to be honest - maybe even a little distorted.  After I read the Stereophile review, I was wondering if I have an early unit that overdrives at max volume.  Subsequent units (most of them) have a limited in place that forces max volume to be at 0dB (as opposed to +6dB, if I recall correctly).
> 
> Maybe I should contact AQ and see about a replacement unit...


 
  This is new to me as well in fact the drawstring bag stinks it is frayed and is useless the Dragonfly is working great but I haven't pushed the volume.


----------



## longbowbbs

You guys really abuse that poor bag. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Mine is perfect and I bought my DF a week after they came out. I am using it now with my JH16's via the MBPro....Great little device.


----------



## eggyhustles

How is the amp section on this?
   
  Would pairing one with a fiio e17 would be a good combo?


----------



## peter123

I managed to pick up a three weeks old DF for just $160 (retail price here in Norway is $350).
   
  As many ohers I'm very impressed with this little thing. It's compact, heavy and looks stunning, not to mention the sound..
   
  I love the way it pairs both with my Schiit Magni and my LD I+. I do enjoy it most paired with another amp but from the headphone out it's still an upgrade from the Udac2. My main use will be with my laptop when travelling as a direct replacement for the Udac2.
   
  So far I'm very happy


----------



## gkanai

Quote: 





eggyhustles said:


> How is the amp section on this?
> 
> Would pairing one with a fiio e17 would be a good combo?


 
   
  I don't know what you would be driving but I don't think the DragonFly needs additional amplification unless you're using something like a planar-type. It's got some amplification built in iirc.


----------



## n0ah

So I've just received mine and on a mac with iTunes volume maxed I'm noticing that turning the OSX volume down from the keyboard doesn't turn it down all the way and you have to mute to get actual silence. Also surprised that it's only taking 3 notches to drive me IE8's as loud as need be. Does this all sound right?


----------



## Krutsch

Quote: 





n0ah said:


> So I've just received mine and on a mac with iTunes volume maxed I'm noticing that turning the OSX volume down from the keyboard doesn't turn it down all the way and you have to mute to get actual silence. Also surprised that it's only taking 3 notches to drive me IE8's as loud as need be. Does this all sound right?


 
   
  It does, actually.  If you are using straight iTunes, you can try using the SHIFT-Option-Vol keys together to invoke the fine grained volume control w/ the DragonFly.
   
  However, since you just spent $250.00 on the DF, why not spend $10.00 more on a copy of Bitperfect from the App store to go with it.  Trust me, it's 10 bucks well spent for your new DAC/amp and iTunes on a Mac.


----------



## n0ah

I've got Amarra. 

 So what's the explanation as to why the volume doesn't decrease to zero without muting it? I've had several USB dacs over the years and this is the first to do that.


----------



## RUMAY408

Quote: 





n0ah said:


> I've got Amarra.
> 
> So what's the explanation as to why the volume doesn't decrease to zero without muting it? I've had several USB dacs over the years and this is the first to do that.


 
  I have the same set up. I am running iTunes>Amarra 2.4.5>DF and didn't have this issue. Are you sure the blue Amarra light is on or is it the yellow iTunes light on the Amarra head panel.


----------



## n0ah

The blue light's on so I know Amarra's running, but I've also tried it just going straight through iTunes. Anything played through my computer can still be heard with volume down to 0%. Hopefully I hear other people weigh in but I'll get an email in to AQ in the mean time.


----------



## RUMAY408

Quote: 





n0ah said:


> The blue light's on so I know Amarra's running, but I've also tried it just going straight through iTunes. Anything played through my computer can still be heard with volume down to 0%. Hopefully I hear other people weigh in but I'll get an email in to AQ in the mean time.


 
  I assume both the iTunes panel and Amarra panel are both on full volume otherwise I have no idea why. I'm on a Mac as well and this has not been a problem.


----------



## GrahamL

n0ah said:


> I've got Amarra.
> 
> 
> So what's the explanation as to why the volume doesn't decrease to zero without muting it? I've had several USB dacs over the years and this is the first to do that.




It might be the first USB DAC you've had that employs a host-controlled analogue volume control built into the hardware to control the headphone volume though, as opposed to relying on signal processing in the host device to reduce volume in the digital domain, or a conventional pot. With the Dragonfly, the stream of bits sent to the DAC remains the same regardless of the volume setting on the host; the volume control is instead mapped to the Dragonfly's analogue control.

Through the driver, your computer is telling the Dragonfly to reduce its analogue volume control to minimum. I'm guessing "minimum" for the Dragonfly is still slightly audible, i.e. one step above mute. Mute will be either instructing the Dragonfly to mute itself completely or instead muting in the digital domain before the data is sent.

My Dragonfly behaves the same as yours on my iPad. I was actually OK with this, as I took this behaviour as a sign that the iPad driver was correctly mapping the software volume control to the Dragonfly's analog volume control.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





grahaml said:


> It might be the first USB DAC you've had that employs a host-controlled analogue volume control built into the hardware to control the headphone volume though


 
   
  I have a Dragonfly, Meridian Explorer, and HRT Microstreamer which all attenuate in the analog domain.  Only the Dragonfly has volume at step 0.  
   
  I guess one way to look at it is you have that extra step of volume to play with.


----------



## Krutsch

Quote: 





krutsch said:


> So, does that mean that if I have the drawstring bag, I have one the early DragonFly DACs w/ the line-level distortion issue (referring to the comments from the Stereophile review)?


 
   
  Follow-up on this: I exchanged e-mail with AudioQuest and they've offered to exchange my early model with a current build.
   
  I am having bad gadget luck this year - I've had to send in my MacBook Pro to replace the failed GPU, my Lenovo Yoga to repair the hinge sensor and now the DragonFly.  Well, at least none of these exchanges/repairs have cost money and the support in all cases has been great.


----------



## LAmitchell

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> I have a Dragonfly, Meridian Explorer, and HRT Microstreamer which all attenuate in the analog domain.  Only the Dragonfly has volume at step 0.
> 
> I guess one way to look at it is you have that extra step of volume to play with.


 
   
   
  Hey bobeau,
   
  Did you do a post comparing those DACs?  Can I have the link if so?  I have the Dragonfly but am curious as to how much I am missing out on by not upgrading to the Explorer.  
   
  Thanks!


----------



## LAmitchell

Quote: 





krutsch said:


> Follow-up on this: I exchanged e-mail with AudioQuest and they've offered to exchange my early model with a current build.
> 
> I am having bad gadget luck this year - I've had to send in my MacBook Pro to replace the failed GPU, my Lenovo Yoga to repair the hinge sensor and now the DragonFly.  Well, at least none of these exchanges/repairs have cost money and the support in all cases has been great.


 
   
   
  Whoah!  I are they upgrading anyone that has the DF with the black bag?


----------



## LAmitchell

Hi All,
   
  I have a question about the ANGLE of the USB jack on my Dragonfly....


----------



## RUMAY408

Quote: 





lamitchell said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I have a question about the ANGLE of the USB jack on my Dragonfly....


 
   

  That's as flat as I could set the camera.  I keep my DF attached to a USB line to avoid any risk of bending the usb on the DF.  
  This is my tattered DF bag so would love to hear if I can replace that.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





lamitchell said:


> Hey bobeau,
> 
> Did you do a post comparing those DACs?  Can I have the link if so?  I have the Dragonfly but am curious as to how much I am missing out on by not upgrading to the Explorer.
> 
> Thanks!


 
   
  I'm not one for in-depth impressions, this is some of what I wrote earlier
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/617241/audioquest-dragonfly-review-affordable-outstanding-tiny-dac-amp/1095#post_9289331
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/617241/audioquest-dragonfly-review-affordable-outstanding-tiny-dac-amp/1095
   
  I have the updated ME now (impedance = 5 ohms) and it sounds pretty close to my Microstreamer w/ TG 334s.  I'd characterize the difference being the ME is a bit more analytical, tighter, forward.  The Microstreamer has a somewhat softer and more polite sound, probably a bit more musical.  Unfortunately I haven't spent a whole lot of time with the DF since getting both - but I prefer both by a good margin.  Then again I was never particularly satisfied with the DF.


----------



## Krutsch

Quote: 





lamitchell said:


> Whoah!  I are they upgrading anyone that has the DF with the black bag?


 
   
  I didn't read that in their reply.  I expressed concern about the reported overdriving at max volume with the earlier versions, leading to what sounds like line-level out distortion (at least, that's what I perceive).  They simply replied with an offer to exchange it, without addressing my questions.  I am sure they are worried about a message exchange like this one blowing up into something


----------



## JakeJack_2008

Quote: 





rumay408 said:


> That's as flat as I could set the camera.  I keep my DF attached to a USB line to avoid any risk of bending the usb on the DF.
> This is my tattered DF bag so would love to hear if I can replace that.


 
   
  I don't own the Dragonfly but I've been reading this thread for quite a while.
  Yes, *it is bent*. The DF is 'pointing' downward. Even Jude confirmed it somewhere in this thread.
  (Search for Jude posts in this thread.)
   
  By the way, there was a whole discussion about this issue in this thread.


----------



## RUMAY408

Quote: 





jakejack_2008 said:


> I don't own the Dragonfly but I've been reading this thread for quite a while.
> Yes, *it is bent*. The DF is 'pointing' downward. Even Jude confirmed it somewhere in this thread.
> (Search for Jude posts in this thread.)
> 
> By the way, there was a whole discussion about this issue in this thread.


 
  I said that is as flat as the *camera* could shoot a picture.  The original question from the previous post is whether *his* DF was bent. I threw the picture in for comparison.  Previous posts in the earliest portion of the thread dealt with bending the DF further not whether it was angled down (obviously it is).


----------



## JakeJack_2008

Sorry, but I haven't read your post carefully 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 enough and on top of that I don't own the DF.
  Nevertheless, this is an interesting thread and I keep reading it.
   
   
  I surely deserve this


----------



## RUMAY408

Quote: 





jakejack_2008 said:


> Sorry, but I haven't read your post carefully
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  No problem. I think I may have made my post more confusing by suggesting a line out to prevent bending.


----------



## monster7

i would like to ask a question
  now my dragonfly is connected to an int. amp
   
  when i turn DF volume to full (100), i use win 7
  the high freq. got distortion when i listen to piano solo
   
  when i turn down to 90 or lower, the distortion is gone
   
  but will this inferior the sound quality?
   
  thanks


----------



## Krutsch

Quote: 





monster7 said:


> i would like to ask a question
> now my dragonfly is connected to an int. amp
> 
> when i turn DF volume to full (100), i use win 7
> ...


 
   
  If I correctly understand what you are asking, I believe the answer is 'yes'.  I experienced the same thing with my DF.  I sent an e-mail to AudioQuest asking for clarification, since I believed I had an early version of the product.  They offered to exchange it for a new one from the current build.  It's on its way back and I should have it in a couple of days.  I am going to re-run the same tests I did (similar to what you describe above) and see if things have improved with a new unit.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





krutsch said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Odd, I have a 1st week of production unit. I am using it now. No issues at 100% volume with either PC (JRiver) or Mac (Amarra)


----------



## Krutsch

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Odd, I have a 1st week of production unit. I am using it now. No issues at 100% volume with either PC (JRiver) or Mac (Amarra)


 
   
  That's good to hear.  It's possible that mine was simply defective, but the distortion at max volume was not subtle.  To AQ's credit, they immediately offered to exchange it for a new one.  I look forward to hearing the results.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





krutsch said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I hope the new one works as it should. I am closing in on a year of use and I am still very pleased with it.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





krutsch said:


> That's good to hear.  It's possible that mine was simply defective, but the distortion at max volume was not subtle.  To AQ's credit, they immediately offered to exchange it for a new one.  I look forward to hearing the results.


 
   
  The Stereoquest review notes the second batch was explicitly changed due to this (went from 64 - > 60 steps).


----------



## gefski

With my Schiit Bifrost in for an upgrade, I plugged in my DF, running a cheap cable from it to the Valhalla OTL amp. It's very good. I can work to find the differences (mainly timbre, texture) but not a big stepdown. I was already impressed with the DF as my traveling dac/amp, but this is great!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





gefski said:


> With my Schiit Bifrost in for an upgrade, I plugged in my DF, running a cheap cable from it to the Valhalla OTL amp. It's very good. I can work to find the differences (mainly timbre, texture) but not a big stepdown. I was already impressed with the DF as my traveling dac/amp, but this is great!


 
  The Stereophile review had it plugged into a $250,000 system as the dac and they were impressed....I sure love mine.


----------



## monster7

Quote: 





krutsch said:


> If I correctly understand what you are asking, I believe the answer is 'yes'.  I experienced the same thing with my DF.  I sent an e-mail to AudioQuest asking for clarification, since I believed I had an early version of the product.  They offered to exchange it for a new one from the current build.  It's on its way back and I should have it in a couple of days.  I am going to re-run the same tests I did (similar to what you describe above) and see if things have improved with a new unit.


 
   
  i sent an email to AQ
  they said it is not defected, said if it is overload, turn the volume of DF to 90
  certainly i am not very happy with that


----------



## Krutsch

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> The Stereoquest review notes the second batch was explicitly changed due to this (went from 64 - > 60 steps).


 
   
  Yes.  It was the Stereophile review that prompted me to send an e-mail to AQ and ask if this was my problem.  The current run stops volume at 0db and the first run units would advance (or overdrive) to +6 db, which I attributed to the very noticeable distortion at max volume when plugged into an external pre-amp.  And, yes, you can just turn down the volume, but I wanted line-level output that bypasses the headphone amp.  I cannot get to the bottom of that last part - does max vol (line-level out) really bypass the variable level headphone amp?
   
  Whatever... it's on the FedEx track and I will be listening to it tomorrow


----------



## Krutsch

Well, problem solved.  Received my replacement DF today and could hear the difference immediately.  Line-level out (i.e. max volume) with no audible distortion and no clicks/pops with Windows 8 (another issue I was having).
   
  I love the sound of my (replacement) DragonFly.  I've been playing Steven Wilson ...loud... using:
   
   
 _Lenovo Yoga_* (JRiver) →*_ iFi Audio iUSBPower _*→ *_ __AQ __DragonFly _*→*_ __NuForce Icon HDP, LPS-1_* →*_ __Senn HD 598_


----------



## gefski

krutsch said:


> Well, problem solved.  Received my replacement DF today and could hear the difference immediately.  Line-level out (i.e. max volume) with no audible distortion and no clicks/pops with Windows 8 (another issue I was having).
> 
> I love the sound of my (replacement) DragonFly.  I've been playing Steven Wilson ...loud... using:
> 
> ...




How much does the ifi power improve the sonics of the DF? Lots? A little? Maybe?


----------



## Krutsch

Quote: 





gefski said:


> How much does the ifi power improve the sonics of the DF? Lots? A little? Maybe?


 
   
  I was just posting something about that on another thread.  I can't figure out how to link to that post, so I will just copy the text:
   
   
   


> I wonder about that, as well.  I have one of these (iUSBPower) and I've been flipping back and forth between using it with my bel canto bridge/NuForce Icon and my AQ DragonFly.
> 
> I am pretty sure I can hear the difference with the DragonFly, but w/ the bel canto/Icon, I can't tell the difference.  With the DF, there does seem to be greater separation of instruments, but it's very subtle and may just be perception bias.  The iUSBPower engineering seems sound, in concept, but the bel canto bridge has a lot of power regulation already and I recall reading that USB power cleanup regulation was a design focus for the DragonFly.
> 
> Whatever ... it looks cool on my desk   I need to post pics after I cleanup the mess of cables from test listening.


 
   
  For me, the jury is still out w/ the DF, but I *believe* I can hear the improvement I describe above.


----------



## gefski

I know what you mean. If I had all the $ I've spent on maybes, I could buy a really high end dac.

USB power is funny. We expect it's dirty, but lots of dac mfg do fine with it. 

One that got away from usb power and gets raves is John Kenny (Ciunas) in Ireland. High performance batteries.


----------



## monster7

Quote: 





krutsch said:


> Well, problem solved.  Received my replacement DF today and could hear the difference immediately.  Line-level out (i.e. max volume) with no audible distortion and no clicks/pops with Windows 8 (another issue I was having).
> 
> I love the sound of my (replacement) DragonFly.  I've been playing Steven Wilson ...loud... using:
> 
> ...


 
   
  thanks krutsch
   
  i have already replaced once, my first DF cannot play 44.1k hertz before, seems i need to go to the store again


----------



## RUMAY408

Quote: 





krutsch said:


> Well, problem solved.  Received my replacement DF today and could hear the difference immediately.  Line-level out (i.e. max volume) with no audible distortion and no clicks/pops with Windows 8 (another issue I was having).
> 
> I love the sound of my (replacement) DragonFly.  I've been playing Steven Wilson ...loud... using:
> 
> ...


 
  I hope your bad audio journey is finally over.


----------



## daerron

Joined the Audioquest Dragonfly club yesterday! I was looking for a compact DAC for my Macbook Air to use with my Westone 4s and Project Sunrise II amplifier. I was really hesitant to believe that this little stick could deliver such good quality audio so the store offered to demo it for me on their hifi studio on a B&W CM9 system and did a A-B comparison with a Macbook Pro notebook in store so that was really great of them. I have the same speakers at home so I could immediately note the difference the DF made and I had to pick up my jaw from the floor so I immediately bought one. 
   
  Early impressions at this early stage, though it is not as technically brilliant and resolving as the Audiolab M-DAC, I quite like the musical presentation, great sound staging and it has good detail retrieval. The M-DAC is very forward sounding so at times which I didn't always enjoy. The DF has nice synergy with the PSii amp and got me doing some serious toe tapping! It even sounds fantastic on my B&W MM-1 using the line input! The DF and Project Sunrise II together for $500 gives you some serious audio mileage in my view.


----------



## Xinze

Can someone compare the Dragonfly in terms of SQ to the Schitt Stack (Magni, Modii) and the Xonar STX in detail?


----------



## daerron

I certainly like my Dragonfly more than I did the Asus Essence STX, sounds more balanced through the freqency spectrum and less noisy, though I feel the Essence STX can retrieve more detail. The STX is quite sensitive to noise in your case, so having a good low noise ATX PSU does help quite a bit. It depends on the cost you have to pay. Locally in South Africa the Asus Essence STX costs half what a Audioquest Dragonfly costs so its a little bit more difficult to decide. The STX offers great bang for the buck here. Perhaps someone else can offer an opinion on the Magni/Modi combo?


----------



## Grind

Purchased DF couple months ago. Love the sound but afraid to use it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Been using Koss DJ pro 100 with it, other night tried it with IEM and almost lost my hearing because i´ve had these irritating snacks, crackles and pops from the first day of having it. Didn´t think they would be so LOUD in my ear with IEM. Sweet Bezesus!! using Win 7 Ultimate, turned of all eco modes, tried different usb-ports and been using smallest buffers available. Think i´ve tried every trick from the book but no luck getting the extra sounds of. Don´t want tinnitus because of this thing so all the help is appreciated.


----------



## Whippler

put it on a usb extension cord, and avoid all movement on the usb connection!


----------



## Grind

Will try that, thanks. Another one from Finland, morjens 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  edit. Yep, seems that usb ports in my Silverstone case are little bit on a loose side, swinging like crazy. That´s what you get with kids ripping off every cord they get their hands on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Let´s just hope that V-Moda M-100 coming next week will survive even couple months..


----------



## RUMAY408

Quote: 





grind said:


> Will try that, thanks. Another one from Finland, morjens
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I agree with the two above posts and would add an amp, even a cheap one to that usb extension just to further stabilize that off chance of a loud noise coming off the DAC.


----------



## Krutsch

Quote: 





grind said:


> Will try that, thanks. Another one from Finland, morjens
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  In the event that a loose cable connection was NOT the problem, I've had issues with Windows 8 and recurring clicks and pops, using JRiver Media Center.  I had to play around with the buffer size settings to fix the issue.  For me, 250ms was the magic number.


----------



## jaywillin

i joined the dragonfly club, kind of my accident/luck
  i won an ebay auction , paid $107 for my dragonfly, like new condition
  works perfectly !
  i'm using just as a dac mostly, my amps are the fiio e09k, indeed g3, and a LD I+
  my headphones are the alessandro ms2
  i must say, i'm quite impressed with the dragonfly !!


----------



## Grind

Quote: 





krutsch said:


> In the event that a loose cable connection was NOT the problem, I've had issues with Windows 8 and recurring clicks and pops, using JRiver Media Center.  I had to play around with the buffer size settings to fix the issue.  For me, 250ms was the magic number.


 
  I quess i still haven´t find my magic number ´cause clicks and pops are still an issue, i´ll just have to continue hunting the right way to get it right 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   Just a guess, could my Spitfire II Dac plugged in my optical output have some kind of interference with Dragonfly? I use that for my AudioEngine A5 monitors. There are not used at the same time but..who knows.


----------



## RUMAY408

Quote: 





grind said:


> I quess i still haven´t find my magic number ´cause clicks and pops are still an issue, i´ll just have to continue hunting the right way to get it right
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Try the DF on another computer if it is still happening I would assume its a defective DF.


----------



## jaywillin

Quote: 





grind said:


> Purchased DF couple months ago. Love the sound but afraid to use it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 what media player are you using ? i i have jriver, i had the same problem with the hrt microstreamer, and msII, the solution there was decreased buffering, where most dacs its increase the buffering, have you tried that ??


----------



## Krutsch

krutsch said:


> In the event that a loose cable connection was NOT the problem, I've had issues with Windows 8 and recurring clicks and pops, using JRiver Media Center.  I had to play around with the buffer size settings to fix the issue.  For me, 250ms was the magic number.




Sorry, but I spoke too soon... I went back to my Windows 8 laptop and tried my Dragonfly, after posting this. Now, no combination of settings / disabling other audio devices / whatever will eliminate the ticks and pops. The distortion is horrible. FWIW, it's far more evident with 96/24 tracks, as opposed to AAC or MP3 files that playback just fine. FLAC CD rips are in the middle - fewer pops, but they are there.

I've already received a replacement DF from Audioquest (I had an early model with the line-level out issue). Works great on my Mac Book, but not so with my Windows 8 laptop. To be fair to Audioquest, they warn about Windows 8 on their web site. However, I have none of these issues with my desktop rig with the same laptop, files and media player.

Hopefully the previous poster can figure something out; it's a great DAC/amp, if you can hear it without the ticks and pops. For me, I am just going to pull out my Mac Book and forget about it.


----------



## RUMAY408

Quote: 





krutsch said:


> Sorry, but I spoke too soon... I went back to my Windows 8 laptop and tried my Dragonfly, after posting this. Now, no combination of settings / disabling other audio devices / whatever will eliminate the ticks and pops. The distortion is horrible. FWIW, it's far more evident with 96/24 tracks, as opposed to AAC or MP3 files that playback just fine. FLAC CD rips are in the middle - fewer pops, but they are there.
> 
> I've already received a replacement DF from Audioquest (I had an early model with the line-level out issue). Works great on my Mac Book, but not so with my Windows 8 laptop. To be fair to Audioquest, they warn about Windows 8 on their web site. However, I have none of these issues with my desktop rig with the same laptop, files and media player.
> 
> Hopefully the previous poster can figure something out; it's a great DAC/amp, if you can hear it without the ticks and pops. For me, I am just going to pull out my Mac Book and forget about it.


 
  I have a Mac which the DF runs great on and Windows 7 at the office also no problem. I have not tried Windows 8.  Has anyone had a good experience with Windows 8?  The tech people at work said stay away from Windows 8 so when we "upgraded" from Vista we went to Windows 7.  Totally off topic but I actually liked Vista better than 7.


----------



## Krutsch

Quote: 





rumay408 said:


> I have a Mac which the DF runs great on and Windows 7 at the office also no problem. I have not tried Windows 8.  Has anyone had a good experience with Windows 8?  The tech people at work said stay away from Windows 8 so when we "upgraded" from Vista we went to Windows 7.  Totally off topic but I actually liked Vista better than 7.


 
   
  I have done a fair amount of reading on the topic of Windows 8 and DF on other forums (especially the JRiver site); others are having this problem, but many say it all works great with Windows 8.  For me, it comes and goes - as I posted earlier, it was working for a while and then I started having problems, again.
   
  If you search around, you can find a technical description that seems to point to a USB audio issue with Windows 8.
   
  OT: my job forces me to learn and "appreciate" whatever Microsoft, Google and Apple come out with.  To be honest, Windows 8 is a lot of "change" and it's too much for an average user (reminds me of the public's reaction to the Microsoft Office "Ribbon" toolbar).  However, a while back my MacBook died and, while I was sourcing a new one, I was forced to exclusively use Windows 8.  After a few weeks, I learned to like and appreciate what they are trying to accomplish with the Metro or Modern UI.


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Quote: 





whippler said:


> put it on a usb extension cord, and avoid all movement on the usb connection!


 
   
  If it having problems like this you have a defective unit.  One of my 3 or 4 models did this and progressively got worse until it was unbearable.  I would suggest getting a replacement under warranty.
   
   


krutsch said:


> I have done a fair amount of reading on the topic of Windows 8 and DF on other forums (especially the JRiver site); others are having this problem, but many say it all works great with Windows 8.  For me, it comes and goes - as I posted earlier, it was working for a while and then I started having problems, again.
> 
> If you search around, you can find a technical description that seems to point to a USB audio issue with Windows 8.
> 
> OT: my job forces me to learn and "appreciate" whatever Microsoft, Google and Apple come out with.  To be honest, Windows 8 is a lot of "change" and it's too much for an average user (reminds me of the public's reaction to the Microsoft Office "Ribbon" toolbar).  However, a while back my MacBook died and, while I was sourcing a new one, I was forced to exclusively use Windows 8.  After a few weeks, I learned to like and appreciate what they are trying to accomplish with the Metro or Modern UI.


 
   
  My dad has Windows 8 on his laptop and anything from MP3 to FLAC CD rips to High Rez downloads runs fine through Mediamonkey, iTunes, and my modded/WASAPI foobar2000 setup I put on it.


----------



## Grind

Quick test with Sony Vaio laptop shows no problem with Dragonfly. Sony is on Win 8. But this was just a quick test with couple of songs through Winamp and Youtube. 

 I´ve tried countless of different variations of buffer sizes with my own computer with no luck, it´s definitely better with small buffers but problem doesn´t go away. Now running latency test with my PC, somebody talked about this on Jriver forum.http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=78555.0

Search continues


----------



## Grind

I just don´t get it. Absolutely perfect sound on Vaio so it seems theres something really badly wrong with my own computer. I updated every driver i found and it seems to help little with the click and snaps but no way it is perfect, still really annoying to use. Now there is a new problem, randomly sound just vanishes and and i have to touch the Windows master volume just a click up or down to get the sound back. Ok if just listening music but really annoying if playing some game or watching film. Loosing my mind 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   On a bright side got my V-Moda M-100 couple of days ago and couldn´t be happier 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . Absolutely perfect except for little size problem with my ears, lets hope the XL sife pads will be available soon.


----------



## MrScratch

@Krutsch / Grind: Are you running ANY utility/gadget/add-on for power management on the affected PCs or are you using any CPU throttling manager like the nVidia power manager or even the Windows built-in battery magager?


----------



## Whippler

Just go home from visiting the hifistore where i got my DF. Luckily they had received a shipment of these this week, got a replacement right away, one with leather pouch. Grind, your unit is definately defected.


----------



## MrScratch

He said that on another PC the DF works perfectly fine and you think it's safe to assert his unit is defective?
  I'm a bit puzzled.


----------



## Whippler

Ah he did say that, DF seems to default to 96khz (magenta) when you plug it in on a windows pc, did you test it with 44.1 (green) on the other pc? Mine had problems with 44.1/88.2, and worked okey with 48/96 for a while, untill i started hearing little clicking on that too every now and then.


----------



## longbowbbs

Mine is a first gen (I got it the first week they were out) and it has always shifted as it should depending on the source material. I use it on both Mac's and PC's with no issue. Awesome little device!


----------



## 329161

Anyone know if this thing works with a Galaxy S3 phone pumping USB audio over otg cable?


----------



## Whippler

Quote: 





dcfac73 said:


> Anyone know if this thing works with a Galaxy S3 phone pumping USB audio over otg cable?


 
   
  It's not made to be run from a mobile device, but iv read it has worked on some android phones, maybe with audio recorder pro app from play store can drive it. Also phone probably can't give it enough juice to run. Maybe with something like this, that can pull additional power from portable usb charger: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Micro-USB-Host-OTG-Cable-w-USB-power-Male-Female-Samsung-S2-i9100-S3-i9300-9220-/281145913835?pt=US_Cell_Phone_PDA_Cables_Adapters&hash=item41759a31eb
   
  Also, have a look at this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs
  And: http://www.head-fi.org/t/628667/has-anyone-tried-aq-dragonfly-with-s3-using-otg


----------



## 329161

whippler said:


> It's not made to be run from a mobile device, but iv read it has worked on some android phones, maybe with audio recorder pro app from play store can drive it. Also phone probably can't give it enough juice to run. Maybe with something like this, that can pull additional power from portable usb charger: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Micro-USB-Host-OTG-Cable-w-USB-power-Male-Female-Samsung-S2-i9100-S3-i9300-9220-/281145913835?pt=US_Cell_Phone_PDA_Cables_Adapters&hash=item41759a31eb
> 
> 
> Also, have a look at this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs
> ...



Thanks for the info. The links don't actually confirm whether it is possible or not. I want to make sure of this (too many purchasing mistakes already). A powered USB hub would be an ok compromise.


----------



## Krutsch

Quote: 





mrscratch said:


> @Krutsch / Grind: Are you running ANY utility/gadget/add-on for power management on the affected PCs or are you using any CPU throttling manager like the nVidia power manager or even the Windows built-in battery magager?


 
  To be honest, I've stopped trying to run my DF with my Windows 8 Ultrabook, which I use with my desktop rig.  
  With my MacBook Retina and my 2009 Mac Mini, it works great and that's that


----------



## RUMAY408

Quote: 





krutsch said:


> To be honest, I've stopped trying to run my DF with my Windows 8 Ultrabook, which I use with my desktop rig.
> With my MacBook Retina and my 2009 Mac Mini, it works great and that's that


 
  At work I've used the DF with Windows 7 watching Youtube music videos and have had no problems.
   
  I think the DF is made for the Mac. I'm running Amarra with my MBAir and they all work together seamlessly with various high resolution audio.  I can watch the DF change colors without lifting a finger. Throw on your favorite headphones, add a portable amp if you want, and your ready to rock.


----------



## Whippler

For me, it works great on windows 8, and the unit i returned, they tested it on a mac, and it did have the cracks and pops on it too.


----------



## Grind

Quote: 





whippler said:


> Ah he did say that, DF seems to default to 96khz (magenta) when you plug it in on a windows pc, did you test it with 44.1 (green) on the other pc? Mine had problems with 44.1/88.2, and worked okey with 48/96 for a while, untill i started hearing little clicking on that too every now and then.


 
  So there is no sound at 44.1, on magenta and blue there is sound but terrible cracks and pops on sound. Weird. I contacted the shop i bought the unit, i´ll just wait what they have to say about this.
   
  Quote: 





mrscratch said:


> @Krutsch / Grind: Are you running ANY utility/gadget/add-on for power management on the affected PCs or are you using any CPU throttling manager like the nVidia power manager or even the Windows built-in battery magager?


 
  No, everything is off. This was one of the first thing i did when trying to solve the problem.


----------



## wahhabb

I've been thinking about getting one of these. I have a Macbook Pro and LCD3's, and while I don't take them on the road often, I'd like something a step up from my Fiio E17 for when I do. While someone said this will drive the LCD3, has anyone tried it? Is this a step you would recommend for me?
   
  Thanks!


----------



## RUMAY408

Quote: 





wahhabb said:


> I've been thinking about getting one of these. I have a Macbook Pro and LCD3's, and while I don't take them on the road often, I'd like something a step up from my Fiio E17 for when I do. While someone said this will drive the LCD3, has anyone tried it? Is this a step you would recommend for me?
> 
> Thanks!


 
  The DF drives the HE-400 well but with my T1, I add an ALO MKll portable amp.  My guess with the LCD3 you might be better off adding a potable amp to that E17.


----------



## kryten123

Hi Guys,
   
  First - Sorry of this has been brought up before, but I have only got as far as page 8.
   
  I bought the AQ a while ago and have not really had a chance to use it until now.
  I have been trying to use them today and am getting strange things happening:
   
  1) Volume - I can still hear the music even if the Windows System volume slider is set to the bottom ie zero
      In fact its almost impossible to get the volume to a proper level because as soon as I move the slider up, its way too loud in my IEM
   
  2) The sound that I do get once past zero distorts into what sound like the old vinyl being played backwards.
   
  I have tried this via MediaMonkey and Foobar
   
  I am assuming I am not the only one having this issue and it has been discussed in the last 80 pages - can some one advise or point me to the relevant posts.
   
  Thanks


----------



## Whippler

Quote: 





kryten123 said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> 1) Volume - I can still hear the music even if the Windows System volume slider is set to the bottom ie zero
> In fact its almost impossible to get the volume to a proper level because as soon as I move the slider up, its way too loud in my IEM


 
  Yeah, it doesn't go down to zero, get an amp for it. I'm using mine with arrow 4G.


----------



## kryten123

Quote: 





whippler said:


> Yeah, it doesn't go down to zero, get an amp for it. I'm using mine with arrow 4G.


 

 mmmm....I thought it was supposed to be an "all in one".
  It seems to defeat the point of it, if it needs to be attached to an amp to be able to adequately manage the sound levels.


----------



## Bostonears

> Originally Posted by *kryten123* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I bought the AQ a while ago and have not really had a chance to use it until now.
> I have been trying to use them today and am getting strange things happening:
> ...


 
   
  What IEMs are you using?
  Have you tried a different PC?
  Have you tried installing the CEntrance Universal Audio Driver?
   
  I'm using Shure E4c IEMs, Windows 7 with the Universal Driver, and my comfortable volume range is between 10 and 15 (out of 100) on the Windows System volume.


----------



## Whippler

Without amp, 0-3 is okey with AKG K550 for me, And with Shure se535, 0 is bit too loud.
   
  So where can i download this driver without filling in a form?


----------



## kryten123

Quote: 





whippler said:


> Without amp, 0-3 is okey with AKG K550 for me, And with Shure se535, 0 is bit too loud.
> 
> So where can i download this driver without filling in a form?


 
   
  I've tried with a few IEMs but its very hard to control the volume level as anything up 2 is really loud. It also distorts by sounding like a record being played backwards.
  I've tried it on a couple of machines are work XP and Win7 - going to give it a try tonight at home.
   
  @whippler - if you find where to get the driver without filling in the form, let me know


----------



## Whippler

Quote: 





bostonears said:


> What IEMs are you using?
> Have you tried a different PC?
> Have you tried installing the CEntrance Universal Audio Driver?
> 
> I'm using Shure E4c IEMs, Windows 7 with the Universal Driver, and my comfortable volume range is between 10 and 15 (out of 100) on the Windows System volume.


 
  Well Downloaded it, but it doesn't detect DF for me, so what a waste.
   
  I ques only way to drive sensitive headphones directly from dragonfly is either getting on amp that goes low enough, or using digital volume control on PC to tame it down. Anyway i don't like stepped volume controls anyway, its always not enough or too much.
   
   
  @Krypten123 As for the distortion, dunno whats up with that, do you have one of the early models, string pouch?


----------



## kryten123

whippler said:


> Well Downloaded it, but it doesn't detect DF for me, so what a waste.
> 
> I ques only way to drive sensitive headphones directly from dragonfly is either getting on amp that goes low enough, or using digital volume control on PC to tame it down. Anyway i don't like stepped volume controls anyway, its always not enough or too much.
> 
> ...




Yes it is one of the pouch ones....was there an issue? (Up to page 20 of this thread so far)


----------



## Whippler

I used to have one of those, but it started degrading, some crackling on 44.1 and 88.2, then it got worse over time started cutting out the sound, and then also on 48 and 96 a little bit. Finally got it replaced last week. And as far as i know, quite a few people have been getting their Dragonflies replaced, newer ones come with a 'leather' sleeve.


----------



## Bostonears

whippler said:


> Well Downloaded it, but it doesn't detect DF for me, so what a waste.


 
  I wasn't sure if the CEntrance Universal Audio Driver was relevant, but I have it installed on the PC that I also use with the Dragonfly. (CEntrance DACmini when at home, and Dragonfly when travelling.) I didn't know whether the driver might have been affecting the usable range of the Windows System Volume. I guess not. Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## kryten123

Tested DF on home laptop with JRiver - and it all works fine. Able to fully control the DF in discrete amounts so I don't get deafened and no longer sounds like someone trying to summon beelzebub.
   
  Seems like its an issue with my work PCs


----------



## wenyuanalive

Need some help here!
   
  I was reading reviews about AudioQuest Dragonfly and someone mentioned the SQ improved when he/she used a better sound card. But in my understanding the SQ shouldn't be impacted by onboard sound card once you have external DAC. Is that right?
   
  If that's not the case,  can I install ASUS Xonar Essence STX into my Dell laptop - Inspiron, to improve the sound card?


----------



## kryten123

Quote: 





wenyuanalive said:


> Need some help here!
> 
> I was reading reviews about AudioQuest Dragonfly and someone mentioned the SQ improved when he/she used a better sound card. But in my understanding the SQ shouldn't be impacted by onboard sound card once you have external DAC. Is that right?
> 
> If that's not the case,  can I install ASUS Xonar Essence STX into my Dell laptop - Inspiron, to improve the sound card?


 
  As I understand it, the Dragonfly uses the USB port to bypass the internal DAC of the pc...so I fail to see how a better sound card will have any bearing on the sound from the Dragonfly.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





kryten123 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  +1


----------



## M3NTAL

kryten123 -  I have the same issue as you with windows xp only.  Audioquest was no help either. They said it was a driver issue, but I used a few different ones and all had the same issue. Mine shoots to full output and does the crazy freakout thing once I come back up from zero.  Windows 7 and OSX have no issues at all. Yes, with IEM's, volume can get high quickly and I did not like that.   I also felt it did a better job as a DAC only and not as a headphone amplifier.


----------



## wenyuanalive

Quote: 





kryten123 said:


> As I understand it, the Dragonfly uses the USB port to bypass the internal DAC of the pc...so I fail to see how a better sound card will have any bearing on the sound from the Dragonfly.


 
  Thanks a lot kryten123! That's what I thought too.


----------



## wenyuanalive

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> +1


 
  Thanks for the prompt response!


----------



## kryten123

Quote: 





m3ntal said:


> kryten123 -  I have the same issue as you with windows xp only.  Audioquest was no help either. They said it was a driver issue, but I used a few different ones and all had the same issue. Mine shoots to full output and does the crazy freakout thing once I come back up from zero.  Windows 7 and OSX have no issues at all. Yes, with IEM's, volume can get high quickly and I did not like that.   I also felt it did a better job as a DAC only and not as a headphone amplifier.


 

 Wow thanks mate - It didnt occur to me the different Windows versions.
  My screwy machine was XP and my home laptop is Win7. Replaced my work XP with Win7 and all is good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  The volume is much better now but still quite sensitive for IEMs....I just need to be a bit careful to be off the Volume menu in Windows before I roll the mouse wheel. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Thanks


----------



## devilsadvocate

Quote: 





dcfac73 said:


> Anyone know if this thing works with a Galaxy S3 phone pumping USB audio over otg cable?


 
   
  I have an S3 and I tried it.  It doesn't have enough juice to power it.  My Fiio E7 works fine over the otg cable, so I know it isn't the cable.


----------



## IanF23

Hi,
  Is it possible to use a Music Fidelity V-Link with the Audioquest DragonFly?  If so, I don't understand what the order of connections would be and how one would connect the output of V-link to the Dragonfly and in turn how the DF would be connected?  
   
  Perhaps the idea is nonsensical; if so please advise.
   
  Thanks
  Ian


----------



## Audio Addict

Anyone following the GEEK Kickstarter project? It looks very interesting.


----------



## M3NTAL

Quote: 





audio addict said:


> Anyone following the GEEK Kickstarter project? It looks very interesting.


 
  I sure am - and backing it.  I'll compare it to the Dragonfly when the time comes.


----------



## longbowbbs

I am in to. Looking forward to the comparison.


----------



## Audio Addict

Quote: 





m3ntal said:


> I sure am - and backing it.  I'll compare it to the Dragonfly when the time comes.


 
   
  I am in as well.  From the specifications, it seems difficult to believe they can deliver at their target price point.
   
  http://mustgeekout.blogspot.nl/2013/08/geek-vs-others.html


----------



## amham

see next


----------



## amham

Quote: 





ianf23 said:


> Hi,
> Is it possible to use a Music Fidelity V-Link with the Audioquest DragonFly?  If so, I don't understand what the order of connections would be and how one would connect the output of V-link to the Dragonfly and in turn how the DF would be connected?
> 
> Perhaps the idea is nonsensical; if so please advise.
> ...


 
  The answer to this question is No and No.  There is no reason or method to do so.  The V-link serves the purpose of adapting computer USB digital music streaming output asynchronously to and external DAC.  The Dragonfly accomplishes this internally and thus fulfills the intended purposes of the v-link as well as the DAC.


----------



## IanF23

Hi,
  Thanks for the explanation re the DF and V-Link. Very much appreciated.
  Ian


----------



## wenyuanalive

The Dragonfly+Hd 650 seems an OK combo, I am not impressed.


----------



## DannyBai

I thing you want to add an amp to that equation to get better performance out of the HD650.


----------



## wenyuanalive

Quote: 





dannybai said:


> I thing you want to add an amp to that equation to get better performance out of the HD650.


 
  That's my plan... Looks like the DAC part of DF is better than the amp part..
   
  BTW wonder if you know once I got an amp how can I disable the amp part of DF?


----------



## M3NTAL

You run the system volume of your computer at 100% and that is basically running the Dragonfly as a line out.  I prefer using it in that manner over as a headphone amp.


----------



## RUMAY408

Quote: 





dannybai said:


> I thing you want to add an amp to that equation to get better performance out of the HD650.


 
  I'm in total agreement.  Great little DAC but only 125mW @ 32 ohms the HD650 needs more juice.


----------



## wenyuanalive

Quote: 





m3ntal said:


> You run the system volume of your computer at 100% and that is basically running the Dragonfly as a line out.  I prefer using it in that manner over as a headphone amp.


 
  Please bear with me here... In my understanding the amp I use must have a volume control to offset part of the 100% system volume. What if I don't use 100% system volume, but still connect the DF with an external amp, and then my headphone? Will the DF still serve only as a DAC, or both DAC and amp? Will that impact the external amp?


----------



## M3NTAL

What is your purpose of using another amp? Does that amp have a volume control on it?   It will always be a DAC and if you adjust the system volume control instead of the end of the chain amplifier you will be using the Dragonfly as a Pre-Amp.  I don't know how that affects the audio quality - you'll have to ask something who has tried that.


----------



## wenyuanalive

Quote: 





m3ntal said:


> What is your purpose of using another amp? Does that amp have a volume control on it?   It will always be a DAC and if you adjust the system volume control instead of the end of the chain amplifier you will be using the Dragonfly as a Pre-Amp.  I don't know how that affects the audio quality - you'll have to ask something who has tried that.


 
  The reason to use another amp is that the amp inside DF is not good enough to drive HD 650 well.


----------



## M3NTAL

Then set your system and application volume to 100% and do the volume control on your amplifier.  That is how you are supposed to use it.


----------



## wenyuanalive

Quote: 





m3ntal said:


> Then set your system and application volume to 100% and do the volume control on your amplifier.  That is how you are supposed to use it.


 
  Got u. Thanks!!


----------



## kryten123

Quote: 





m3ntal said:


> Then set your system and application volume to 100% and do the volume control on your amplifier.  That is how you are supposed to use it.


 

 You are only talking here about if you have another amp on the end of your DF ??
  If I try to turn the app\sys volume to 100% with my IEMs plugged into the DF...I would blow them up...along with my ear drums


----------



## M3NTAL

Yes, that is why I stated to do the volume control on your amplifier.  If I listen directly out of the Dragonfly while using CIEM's I have the system volume set very low.


----------



## RUMAY408

Quote: 





kryten123 said:


> You are only talking here about if you have another amp on the end of your DF ??
> If I try to turn the app\sys volume to 100% with my IEMs plugged into the DF...I would blow them up...along with my ear drums


 
  The DF is fine for driving IEM's but amp an HD650


----------



## longbowbbs

The DF amps fine with the HD650's from my MBPro....


----------



## wenyuanalive

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> The DF amps fine with the HD650's from my MBPro....


 
  It works pretty well for Rock and Pop. For others it feels lack of power/clarity


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





wenyuanalive said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  As they say, to each his own.


----------



## pdrm360

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> The DF amps fine with the HD650's from my MBPro....


 
  Is it any SQ improvement for HD650 if we connect the DF to an external amplifier?


----------



## M3NTAL

Quote: 





pdrm360 said:


> Is it any SQ improvement for HD650 if we connect the DF to an external amplifier?


 
   
  According to your profile - you have a couple different amplifiers. Why don't you test for yourself and report back your findings?  Probably better than someone else telling you.    My opinion is YES, but I'm using full size desktop amplifiers with my HDX00 lineup.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





pdrm360 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I would assume a higher quality amp would improve things. However, since I travel a lot, the DF in its primary form serves my need very well. I get to go home to Tubes and a 10X more expensive DAC so I am not as concerned about it when I am away from home.


----------



## wenyuanalive

Quote: 





m3ntal said:


> Then set your system and application volume to 100% and do the volume control on your amplifier.  That is how you are supposed to use it.


 
  I followed your instruction and pair it with an Asguard amp. The SQ is much better!
  Still I don't understand why setting my system volume to 100% would disable the amp part of dragonfly.


----------



## pdrm360

Quote: 





wenyuanalive said:


> I followed your instruction and pair it with an Asguard amp. The SQ is much better!
> Still I don't understand why setting my system volume to 100% would disable the amp part of dragonfly.


 
[size=11.0pt]I don't think the amp will be disabled if we set the volume to 100%.[/size]


----------



## M3NTAL

Quote: 





wenyuanalive said:


> I followed your instruction and pair it with an Asguard amp. The SQ is much better!
> Still I don't understand why setting my system volume to 100% would disable the amp part of dragonfly.


 
  I never said the amplifier is disabled.  Setting the system at 100% allows the Dragonfly to have "0" analog attenuation of the signal.


----------



## PhilW

Quote: 





audio addict said:


> Anyone following the GEEK Kickstarter project? It looks very interesting.


 

 I know this has got lots of press and looks good but does the Resonessence Herus not do what this project does?


----------



## M3NTAL

Yes, the Herus has similar decoding power, but nobody knows the price. If you were an early GEEK adopter at $99 you are getting a pretty awesome little crowd source inspired device. Even at the "upper" price range now, you are still getting a nice bit of kit.


----------



## pdrm360

Quote: 





wenyuanalive said:


> I followed your instruction and pair it with an Asguard amp. The SQ is much better!
> Still I don't understand why setting my system volume to 100% would disable the amp part of dragonfly.


 
  I’ve heard pair of DF + Asguard has a smaller soundstage in compare to DF alone, is that true?


----------



## pdrm360

I use the Dragonfly to drive my HD700.  Although the DF is just fine with the HD700 but I’m looking for a desktop amplifier and going to use the DF as a DAC/pre-amp only.  Any suggestion for a good pairing amplifier?


----------



## HPiper

Quote: 





pdrm360 said:


> I use the Dragonfly to drive my HD700.  Although the DF is just fine with the HD700 but I’m looking for a desktop amplifier and going to use the DF as a DAC/pre-amp only.  Any suggestion for a good pairing amplifier?


 

 I have heard that the HD700 can be just a bit treble happy, so I would go with a tube amp of some sort. I am using the Little Dot MkIII with my HD650's and it sounds tremendous with that amp. It would help if we knew what kind of ballpark price figure you were looking at spending?


----------



## pdrm360

Quote: 





hpiper said:


> I have heard that the HD700 can be just a bit treble happy, so I would go with a tube amp of some sort. I am using the Little Dot MkIII with my HD650's and it sounds tremendous with that amp. It would help if we knew what kind of ballpark price figure you were looking at spending?


 
   
  up to $400~$500, but I want to make sure the amp works well with the DF.


----------



## RUMAY408

pdrm360 said:


> I use the Dragonfly to drive my HD700.  Although the DF is just fine with the HD700 but I’m looking for a desktop amplifier and going to use the DF as a DAC/pre-amp only.  Any suggestion for a good pairing amplifier?


 
 I'm using an ALO MKll since they just went off production new one can be found for much less than $400.  Plenty of punch for the HD700.


----------



## mrscotchguy

Has anyone heard any information about the second gen Dragonfly? I tried inquiring about last year's supposed Hummingbrid/Bumblebee but never got any true answer about it. The rep circled the around the question but was able to make this comment:

"We lowered the price of DragonFly to $199 on September 1 to pave the way for the next generation model with pricing and features to be announced soon. With all of the talk about HiRes audio, pulse density modulation, various forms of DSD, miniature analog amplifier technology and topology improvements, better batteries, quieter power supplies etc. announced since the introduction of DragonFly version 1 it seems logical to innovate and develop a current version.
Our goal with DragonFly was to have a $250 product that sounded like other $1000+ products. Maybe the next generation DragonFly will be the one that causes you to swap it in to your main audio setup."

He neither confirmed or denied the ipad/iPhone and android version, which makes me believe from his wording (throughout our conversations) that they may have a "one device to rule them all" powered by an optional battery pack. It's hard to make predictions with little information. I am excited to see what they will announce in the near future.


----------



## RUMAY408

mrscotchguy said:


> Has anyone heard any information about the second gen Dragonfly? I tried inquiring about last year's supposed Hummingbrid/Bumblebee but never got any true answer about it. The rep circled the around the question but was able to make this comment:
> 
> "We lowered the price of DragonFly to $199 on September 1 to pave the way for the next generation model with pricing and features to be announced soon. With all of the talk about HiRes audio, pulse density modulation, various forms of DSD, miniature analog amplifier technology and topology improvements, better batteries, quieter power supplies etc. announced since the introduction of DragonFly version 1 it seems logical to innovate and develop a current version.
> Our goal with DragonFly was to have a $250 product that sounded like other $1000+ products. Maybe the next generation DragonFly will be the one that causes you to swap it in to your main audio setup."
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the info first I've heard of this.


----------



## pdrm360

I still haven’t found a good amp for the DF; I've tried many of them.  IMO, it’s better if we use the DF alone, but in overall the synergy (pairing) between the solid state amps and the DF are better than the tube amps (IMO).


----------



## RUMAY408

pdrm360 said:


> I still haven’t found a good amp for the DF; I've tried many of them.  IMO, it’s better if we use the DF alone, but in overall the synergy (pairing) between the solid state amps and the DF are better than the tube amps (IMO).


 
  
 I agree with that.


----------



## wenyuanalive

I used LCD-2 as the headphone and,
  
 1. Dragonfly alone
 2. Dragonfly + Asguard amp
 3. Dragonfly + Hifiman EF5 Tube amp
  
 The difference is minimum. I doubt if my ears are insensitive.


----------



## pdrm360

wenyuanalive said:


> I used LCD-2 as the headphone and,
> 
> 1. Dragonfly alone
> 2. Dragonfly + Asguard amp
> ...


 
  
 IMO, the DragonFly (alone) cannot drive a LCD-2 very well.


----------



## RUMAY408

wenyuanalive said:


> I used LCD-2 as the headphone and,
> 
> 1. Dragonfly alone
> 2. Dragonfly + Asguard amp
> ...


 
  
 Those are light weight amps so really not a big suprise.  If you want to go with the Schiit, Lyr would be minimum and Mjolnir preferable.


----------



## mrscotchguy

pdrm360 said:


> IMO, the DragonFly (alone) cannot drive a LCD-2 very well.




I cannot say that I have much expertise in that department, _but_ we demo'd the LCD-3 on a DF at the request of the owner of the venue at the meetup. We were all amazed that the DF had no problems powering the LCD-3. Was it the best pairing? No, but it didn't suck. If you're buying "end game" headphones, why settle on an DAC/amp combo designed for travel use? Just sayin....


----------



## wenyuanalive

rumay408 said:


> Those are light weight amps so really not a big suprise.  If you want to go with the Schiit, Lyr would be minimum and Mjolnir preferable.


 
 man you are rich! Without the chance of actually listening to them, I have to give it some serious thoughts before spending $1000+. don't know why Schiit doesn't have any dealer in big cities like Chicago. 
  


mrscotchguy said:


> I cannot say that I have much expertise in that department, _but_ we demo'd the LCD-3 on a DF at the request of the owner of the venue at the meetup. We were all amazed that the DF had no problems powering the LCD-3. Was it the best pairing? No, but it didn't suck. If you're buying "end game" headphones, why settle on an DAC/amp combo designed for travel use? Just sayin....


 
  
 There's definitely no problem in terms of powering.  I believe pdrm360's point is DF doesn't drive LCD2 to to its full potential.


----------



## Dumbleroar

I've got this dac/amp and am loving it so far. My only niggle is that it doesn't automatically change the sample rate. I know if you use bit perfect with itunes it will do this, great. My problem is that itunes won't play flac files. Is there any other player with an add on i can use which is similar to bit perfect for the mac? Seems to be more choice for windows.


----------



## RUMAY408

dumbleroar said:


> I've got this dac/amp and am loving it so far. My only niggle is that it doesn't automatically change the sample rate. I know if you use bit perfect with itunes it will do this, great. My problem is that itunes won't play flac files. Is there any other player with an add on i can use which is similar to bit perfect for the mac? Seems to be more choice for windows.


 
  
 Amarra,  just try it for free for two weeks via their web site.  If you try it let me know what you think.


----------



## longbowbbs

Amarra Download:
  
 http://www.sonicstudio.com/amarra/amarra


----------



## DannyBai

I have Fidelia, BitPerfect and Amarra and the latter has worked the best for me.


----------



## Dumbleroar

rumay408 said:


> Amarra,  just try it for free for two weeks via their web site.  If you try it let me know what you think.




I like it. Not so sure about the price tag. It says I can get a 15% discount but I notice it was on special offer in August for $99. I always miss special offers. I'm sure it's worth the price tag though. Very impressed.


----------



## fredrikhasth

hey i am thinking of pairing the dragonfly with a note 2 . set up note2>>dragonfly>>C&C bh2>>Yuin pk1  
  
 anyone know if this would work? also will dragontail make any diffrence  does it have any other purpose then making the cord longer?  or can i use any usb extender?
  
 or should i go for meridian or something else instead?


----------



## daerron

Repurchased the Dragonfly again today at cost price. This one is for the office to use with my Yamaha HPH-200. My local hifi shop was busy clearing a couple of these from their inventory. Must say this one sounds better than the first one I had and also seems to have no issue with USB 3.0 playback unlike my previous one. Starting to wonder whether the first one I got might have been faulty or perhaps there have been a couple of firmware tweaks since then? Will give some more thoughts after the unit has a couple of hours on it.


----------



## Bostonears

fredrikhasth said:


> will dragontail make any diffrence  does it have any other purpose then making the cord longer?  or can i use any usb extender?


 
 The Dragontail is just a short USB extension cord. Any USB extension cord will work the same. This one at Amazon is a popular substitute.


----------



## Krutsch

daerron said:


> Repurchased the Dragonfly again today at cost price. This one is for the office to use with my Yamaha HPH-200. My local hifi shop was busy clearing a couple of these from their inventory. Must say this one sounds better than the first one I had and also seems to have no issue with USB 3.0 playback unlike my previous one. Starting to wonder whether the first one I got might have been faulty or perhaps there have been a couple of firmware tweaks since then? Will give some more thoughts after the unit has a couple of hours on it.


 
  
 I exchanged mine (see earlier in this thread) because I could hear distortion at line-level output.  My new one doesn't have that problem, so I would guess that they have made changes from previous editions/versions.


----------



## Dumbleroar

I'm having issues with foobar which I'm trying to use at work. I've installed the wasapi plugin on windows 7, but the dragonfly isn't changing colours. I'm guessing that its still using the windows mixer but I can't figure foobar out. First time using it


----------



## Dumbleroar

Aha I had to go to the playback option a d change it there! Knew it had to be something simple like that!


----------



## alpha421

With regards to the different dragonfly version this thread talks about is it safe to assume that the version with the soft velvet pouch (previously owned) is the old version and the one with the leatherette sleeve is the latest version, yes?


----------



## RUMAY408

alpha421 said:


> With regards to the different dragonfly version this thread talks about is it safe to assume that the version with the soft velvet pouch (previously owned) is the old version and the one with the leatherette sleeve is the latest version, yes?


 
  
 I have the 1st version and it is soft and definitly not leather.


----------



## alpha421

Thanks for the confirmation.


----------



## longbowbbs

alpha421 said:


> With regards to the different dragonfly version this thread talks about is it safe to assume that the version with the soft velvet pouch (previously owned) is the old version and the one with the leatherette sleeve is the latest version, yes?


 
  
 Apparently yes. I have one I bought the 1st week it was out. It has performed flawlessly since I bought it.


----------



## mrscotchguy

Man, I want one so bad, but I just don't have need for a DF unless is it directly compatible with my iPad. I don't even touch my laptop anymore. I've got a few people looking out for any updates on the 2 Gen release. Patience is a virtue I've never been good at.


----------



## RUMAY408

mrscotchguy said:


> Man, I want one so bad, but I just don't have need for a DF unless is it directly compatible with my iPad. I don't even touch my laptop anymore. I've got a few people looking out for any updates on the 2 Gen release. Patience is a virtue I've never been good at.


 
  
 I've seen a mod using it with an iPad go back thru the thread and you should find it.


----------



## mrscotchguy

rumay408 said:


> I've seen a mod using it with an iPad go back thru the thread and you should find it.




I've seen the rigged up way to make it work. But I don't consider a string of cables, adapters, a USB hub, and power pack a solution for on the go. I appreciate the creativity, but I'll just keep waiting.


----------



## G_T_J

Just got this and the colour indicator won't change no matter what music I play (Flac or various mp3 bitrates). It always lights in pink colour. Of course I hear a lot of difference in terms of SQ compared to what I hear directly from my laptop audio output but this issue with the light makes me sceptical whether the device is working properly or not...
  
 Would you excuse my ignorance and help me with this matter?
  
 UPDATE: Forgot to mention that I'm only able to change the light indicator by changing the sound properties manually from my computer's control panel. I'm running windows 7 pro 64 if that matters.


----------



## Whippler

g_t_j said:


> Just got this and the colour indicator won't change no matter what music I play (Flac or various mp3 bitrates). It always lights in pink colour. Of course I hear a lot of difference in terms of SQ compared to what I hear directly from my laptop audio output but this issue with the light makes me sceptical whether the device is working properly or not...
> 
> Would you excuse my ignorance and help me with this matter?
> 
> UPDATE: Forgot to mention that I'm only able to change the light indicator by changing the sound properties manually from my computer's control panel. I'm running windows 7 pro 64 if that matters.


 
 It won't change on it's own in windows/ if its driven by the standard windows audio drivers. I recommend using foobar2000 for playing your music, install wasapi for it, go to foobars settings, output, and select wasapi event dragonfly, and now it can get the music directly and detect the sampling rates.
  
 Windows just up/down samples to what ever has been selected from the windows playback devices menu.
  
 PS it's allover this thread, there is also a search from thread funktion here, so please use that.


----------



## G_T_J

Thank you so much! Now makes really sense why I couldn't make the device change sample rate on its own.
  
 I use JRiver but I will try Foobar instead if there is that ''Dragonfly'' profile integrated to the specific player.
  
 Another thing is, what is the analog volume control that Dragonfly is supposed to feature? I've read there is one with 64 bars to adjust.
  
 Thank you very much for the above message. It was a true relief. I had been starting to believe I got a faulty piece.


----------



## FasterThanEver

You don't need to switch from JRiver to Foobar.  Just select WASAPI as the output mode (Click on Player on the main menu, then click on Playback options, then choose WASAPI as the output mode.)  You might also click Oputput mode settings and check the settingfs there.


----------



## G_T_J

Thanks very much for the input. I'll stick with Foobar for a while as it's a freeware app.
  
 Anyone to enlight me regarding the analog volume control?


----------



## Bimbleton

Lovin' my DF driving HD650's, both brand new. A small issue -- certain songs seem to have pops/clicks. Seem to be random, I can't trigger them by poking the ports or wires. My setup:
  
 Spotify Premium --> Lenovo Win8-x64 --> Mediabridge USB-Extension (gold plated) --> DF --> HD650.
 Tried it without the Mediabridge interconnect, still spits/pops. Drivers fully updated on comp.
 Any suggestions?


----------



## G_T_J

Try to reduce buffer size from the output profile of JRiver (I suppose this is the one you're using).


----------



## Bimbleton

g_t_j said:


> Try to reduce buffer size from the output profile of JRiver (I suppose this is the one you're using).


 
  
 Thanks for the reply.
 Unfortunately, I'm not using JRiver. As far as I know, there's no other way to send streaming Spotify through JRiver or any other program... unless I'm mistaken? Is there some change I could make in the Spotify program itself? (Already turned on high-quality streaming).


----------



## Bimbleton

Never mind. The crackles were from a slow internet service rather than the device itself.


----------



## jojoarmani2

I got the one that comes with the leather pouch - it is only a dac; no amp according to the manual. Sounds great!


----------



## RUMAY408

jojoarmani2 said:


> I got the one that comes with the leather pouch - it is only a dac; no amp according to the manual. Sounds great!


 
 It should provide 150mw as an amp enough to drive a HD650 or HE400. Better as a DAC than an amp


----------



## mrscotchguy

Can anyone explain the big difference between the two versions. I might have a chance at a deal on Sunday, but I am almost positive it will be a cloth-bag (first version). I was hoping the new generation would be released by now...


----------



## Krutsch

rumay408 said:


> It should provide 150mw as an amp enough to drive a HD650 or HE400. Better as a DAC than an amp


 
  
 +1 ... I am impressed with the DAC and it really sounds great plugged into another amp.


----------



## raclimja

will this dac/amp work with Galaxy S4 i9505 through USB OTG?


----------



## mrscotchguy

Well, I broke. Bought a new DF. Got it for $170 after tax locally. Running it on my sub-par WIndows 8 netbook. So far, I am impressed with the upscaling. I was a bit concerned upon first plug-in as the sound was pretty disapointing until I switched it to a different USB port. Looks like I will need to buy a Dragontail tomorrow, I think. Later this week, I am going to test it as a full fledged DAC with my PS Audio GCHA.


----------



## Bimbleton

mrscotchguy said:


> Well, I broke. Bought a new DF. Got it for $170 after tax locally. Running it on my sub-par WIndows 8 netbook. So far, I am impressed with the upscaling. I was a bit concerned upon first plug-in as the sound was pretty disapointing until I switched it to a different USB port. Looks like I will need to buy a Dragontail tomorrow, I think. Later this week, I am going to test it as a full fledged DAC with my PS Audio GCHA.


 
 Enjoy your new Dragonfly! Honestly, you can use any USB-extender. I use the mediabridge one from Amazon with the gold connects, it was $5-6 and it works perfectly fine.


----------



## G_T_J

mrscotchguy said:


> Well, I broke. Bought a new DF. Got it for $170 after tax locally. Running it on my sub-par WIndows 8 netbook. So far, I am impressed with the upscaling. I was a bit concerned upon first plug-in as the sound was pretty disapointing until I switched it to a different USB port. Looks like I will need to buy a Dragontail tomorrow, I think. Later this week, I am going to test it as a full fledged DAC with my PS Audio GCHA.



 


Oh, so I also have to tamper with my USB ports as well, as I'm not very much impressed by DF so far. 
There is some improvement for sure but not what I was expecting. DF seems to drive better my B&W P5 than my HD598. Strangely enough, my HD598 seem to be driven louder by my laptop's headphone output than by the DF itself. 

I have it for 2 weeks now and ddn't have much time to experiment with it as I wanted. Probably it's going to grow in me.


----------



## RUMAY408

simanick said:


> Enjoy your new Dragonfly! Honestly, you can use any USB-extender. I use the mediabridge one from Amazon with the gold connects, it was $5-6 and it works perfectly fine.


 
 I'll 2nd that, I've used the media bridge since the DF came out, the Dragontail had not been released yet, see no reason to pay for a short USB extension.
  


> Oh, so I also have to tamper with my USB ports as well, as I'm not very much impressed by DF so far.
> There is some improvement for sure but not what I was expecting. DF seems to drive better my B&W P5 than my HD598. Strangely enough, my HD598 seem to be driven louder by my laptop's headphone output than by the DF itself.
> 
> I have it for 2 weeks now and ddn't have much time to experiment with it as I wanted. Probably it's going to grow in me.


 
 Adding even a cheap and very light and small FiiO E11 will amp that DAC up to a point you may appreciate it more.  Own both the B&W P5 and the HD595.  The P5 gets little love on HF, but I really like that HP, my favorite over-the-ear portable HP.


----------



## Krutsch

rumay408 said:


> Adding even a cheap and very light and small FiiO E11 will amp that DAC up to a point you may appreciate it more.


 
  
 +1 ... adding an external amp does wonders with the DF.  Like it with my NuForce Icon HDP - Love it with my NAD C375BEE 2-channel rig.


----------



## mrscotchguy

simanick said:


> Enjoy your new Dragonfly! Honestly, you can use any USB-extender. I use the mediabridge one from Amazon with the gold connects, it was $5-6 and it works perfectly fine.


 
 Thank you!  I have a generic USB extender right now, was just looking for something with a bit sturdier build quality.  This will work for now though.


> Oh, so I also have to tamper with my USB ports as well, as I'm not very much impressed by DF so far.
> There is some improvement for sure but not what I was expecting. DF seems to drive better my B&W P5 than my HD598. Strangely enough, my HD598 seem to be driven louder by my laptop's headphone output than by the DF itself.
> 
> I have it for 2 weeks now and ddn't have much time to experiment with it as I wanted. Probably it's going to grow in me.


 
 Once I figured out which USB is the best one, then it sounded much, much better.  The audio guy at the shop I purchased from even admitted to that issue as well.  He actually looked into which USB port on his Mac was the highest current/voltage and cleanest power.  Apparently Apple publicizes this information, go figure. I just have a craptop Acer netbook at the moment feeding my DF. 
  
 Additionally, I changed the Buffer length on Foobar from 1000ms to 500ms, and that seemed to make a big difference to the sound for some reason!  Maybe try that out?
  


rumay408 said:


> I'll 2nd that, I've used the media bridge since the DF came out, the Dragontail had not been released yet, see no reason to pay for a short USB extension.
> 
> Adding even a cheap and very light and small FiiO E11 will amp that DAC up to a point you may appreciate it more.  Own both the B&W P5 and the HD595.  The P5 gets little love on HF, but I really like that HP, my favorite over-the-ear portable HP.


 
  
 I cannot wait to test this out as a full-fledged DAC, but holding off so I can notice any difference more clearly.  I agree with your comment about the P5s.  There is little love, but I think that's because of how far from neutral the sound is.  I am super excited to try out their P7s when they arrive at the shop next to my work (best lunch breaks ever!).  If the P5 wasn't so bass heavy, I would get one in a heartbeat -- I adore the build quality, aesthetics, lambskin pads, and detachable cables!


----------



## G_T_J

The strange thing is that it drives my P5s adequately. I'm not very impressed with how it drives my HD598s.

I noticed that I had turned down buffering to around 200ms (Foobar) in order to fix the sound ''jumps'' I was experiencing, which is very very low I reckon. I'll try to adjust it to a number around 500 and see if there's any difference soundwise.

I'm also going to try my left USB port which is a USB 3.0 one. Of course DF itself is not a USB 3.0 device but I suppose a USB 3.0 port can provide stable and powerful voltage for a USB 2.0 device.

I'll try all these things and I'll get back with feedback. Thank you all for your contribution.
Oh, and I also love my B&W P5s. A very underrated pair of HPs.


----------



## gracelisali

Seems like Sabre ESS chips are becoming more popular, apart from that I don't really see the similarity to the ODAC.


----------



## mrscotchguy

Has anyone tried this as a solution to the problem of not supplying enough juice to the DF for mobile solutions? 

http://www.amazon.com/PCD-Universal-Adapter-Female-Connector/dp/B0041CFFBM/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1383367442&sr=1-2&keywords=usb+y+cable

This might be the way I can hook it up the DF up to my iPad....


----------



## lextek

mrscotchguy said:


> Has anyone tried this as a solution to the problem of not supplying enough juice to the DF for mobile solutions?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/PCD-Universal-Adapter-Female-Connector/dp/B0041CFFBM/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1383367442&sr=1-2&keywords=usb+y+cable
> 
> This might be the way I can hook it up the DF up to my iPad....


 
 When I was bored a while ago I hooked up the DF with a powered hub, Radio Shack battery case and Apple CCK.  Lots of stuff, I don't use it much….


----------



## mrscotchguy

Yeah, I saw that, I was thinking If I could bypass the hub and get a tiny power pack, it might be a bit more portable. 

Also, I am going to try the adaptor on my laptop to see if It feeds it cleaner power from 2 USB ports.


----------



## G_T_J

mrscotchguy said:


> Yeah, I saw that, I was thinking If I could bypass the hub and get a tiny power pack, it might be a bit more portable.
> 
> Also, I am going to try the adaptor on my laptop to see if It feeds it cleaner power from 2 USB ports.


 
 This is really interesting. Please get back with your feedback


----------



## mrscotchguy

g_t_j said:


> This is really interesting. Please get back with your feedback




Will do once it's in. I should really break down and just buy Amazon Prime...


----------



## Bostonears

mrscotchguy said:


> I should really break down and just buy Amazon Prime...


 
Amazon is temporarily offering Prime for only $59 first year.


----------



## mrscotchguy

bostonears said:


> Amazon is temporarily offering Prime for only $59 first year.




Thank you, you evil doer!


----------



## mrscotchguy

So I thought I'd report back on the USB + power extension cable. Hooking it up to my little netbook, I noticed absolutely no audiable sound difference. Now that being said, another cable that I had clipped on me whenever I changed window's sound settings (after pressing the apply button). With this solution, every time I A/B 24/44.1 vs upscale, the transition is seemless. 

I am not too DAC savy, but my guess is the DF prevents over-current somehow, so I that's why there is no sound difference one way or the other. I have been running my DF for 2 days straight no with no complications from the adaptor.


----------



## Speakerphile

This is a steal.  
  
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/dragonfly-digital-audio-converter/5426026.p?id=1218657483207&skuId=5426026&st=Audioquest%20Dragonfly&cp=1&lp=1


----------



## wahhabb

Thanks so much! I just ordered one. You can also order it off of eBay at the same price.


----------



## Speakerphile

wahhabb said:


> Thanks so much! I just ordered one. You can also order it off of eBay at the same price.


 
 Yep, through the Best Buy store on eBay.  It get's fulfilled though Bestbuy.com either way.  Works great if you have eBay credit, though I'm not sure if you get MyBestBuy points if that matters to you.


----------



## Za Warudo

That looks like a great deal, though I wonder if the DF by itself is powerful enough to power a He-400.  If not then is the Hifimediy + a separate amp a better and cheaper pairing for the He-400 since it tames the treble more?


----------



## longbowbbs

It runs an HD-650 just fine....


----------



## junkers

longbowbbs said:


> It runs an HD-650 just fine....


 
 I've heard mixed things about the DragonFly driving the HD650. Have you tried using the DF as a DAC only with a separate amp?


----------



## Za Warudo

longbowbbs said:


> It runs an HD-650 just fine....


 
 Sure, but does it drive it as well as a desktop amp (say the Magni or O2)?  Also since I already have a X3 as a DAC I'm not sure if it's worth shelling out another $100 for the upgrade.


----------



## Speakerphile

za warudo said:


> Sure, but does it drive it as well as a desktop amp (say the Magni or O2)?  Also since I already have a X3 as a DAC I'm not sure if it's worth shelling out another $100 for the upgrade.


 
 Of course it doesn't drive them as well as a desktop amp.  It is, after all, a portable amp/DAC.  I wouldn't recommend going with the DF if your primary can is the HD650.  It IS pretty poserful for its' size though.


----------



## goldendarko

Anyone ordered the new version 1.2 yet? Looks like it's $100 cheaper and sounds like they've cleaned up the path and it is supposedly better. Might have to check it out for my laptop for that price.
  
 http://www.audiostream.com/content/audioquest-dragonfly-v12-usb-digital-audio-converter


----------



## Speakerphile

goldendarko said:


> Anyone ordered the new version 1.2 yet? Looks like it's $100 cheaper and sounds like they've cleaned up the path and it is supposedly better. Might have to check it out for my laptop for that price.
> 
> http://www.audiostream.com/content/audioquest-dragonfly-v12-usb-digital-audio-converter


 
 I'll have one next week.  Will make an effort to post my impressions as soon as I can.


----------



## goldendarko

Great, the original for $100 on Amazon might be a better bet unless the new one is really a significant improvement.


----------



## kurt_fire

I just read this over at the SH forums:


> _AudioQuest will shortly release DragonFly v1.2, so they were willing to sell us DragonFly v1.0 at a low closeout price. But here's the secret scoop on v1.0. It's really a v1.1 with identical specs to the forthcoming v1.2. The original v1.0 units were updated last year in an unannounced running change. They removed a capacitor and improved the mini headphone jack to improve reliability. This version also had a software upgrade, but when you plug one into a computer, the computer still reads "DragonFly v1.0"._


----------



## goldendarko

Interesting, so the $100 price is basically the new price for the original?


----------



## Speakerphile

goldendarko said:


> Interesting, so the $100 price is basically the new price for the original?


 
 Kind of.  They are not going to continue manufacturing the original, so they are gone-when-gone.


----------



## junkers

Isn't this price drop quite ridiculous? I mean, people were talking about how $250 was a bit overpriced for what it did, but they were comparing it to the likes of the Schiit Stack/O2+ODAC combo. At $99, this should be the new King of budget builds.


----------



## Speakerphile

junkers said:


> Isn't this price drop quite ridiculous? I mean, people were talking about how $250 was a bit overpriced for what it did, but they were comparing it to the likes of the Schiit Stack/O2+ODAC combo. At $99, this should be the new King of budget builds.


 
 Agreed.  This will be the one that everybody scrambles to pick up before they're gone.  It's nearly disposable at $99, especially around here...
  
 It certainly wasn't a "value" at $250, but I didn't think it was unreasonable.  $200 I thought was a very fair price.  $99 is just a no-brainer.  Anybody that doesn't have an amp/DAC right now needs to buy this thing.


----------



## lextek

Great deal. Killed the resale on the older versions.  I'm listening to my "old" Dragonfly and loving it.  HD600s/Audivarna/Macbook


----------



## Speakerphile

lextek said:


> Great deal. Killed the resale on the older versions.  I'm listening to my "old" Dragonfly and loving it.  HD600s/Audivarna/Macbook


 
 How will we ever cope with not having the bleeding edge?!?  The humanity!


----------



## RUMAY408

za warudo said:


> That looks like a great deal, though I wonder if the DF by itself is powerful enough to power a He-400.  If not then is the Hifimediy + a separate amp a better and cheaper pairing for the He-400 since it tames the treble more?


 
 Drives the HE400 but still sounds better with an amp attached, even a low cost E11.


----------



## CBF-

So 1.0 is exactly the same as 1.2, except 1.0 is on sale right now? I don't really see the point in these new version numbers. Why couldn't they just lower the price to $150 without saying it's 1.2?


----------



## earfonia

At the moment I'm writing this post, Amazon US is having a very good deal on Dragonfly.  Better grep one now if you need it 
  
http://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-DragonFly-Digital-Analog-Converter/dp/B00882U782/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top


----------



## tninety

speakerphile said:


> I'll have one next week.  Will make an effort to post my impressions as soon as I can.


 
  
 Who's selling it? I want to pick one up but can't find it anywhere (that sells a DF for $150 OR mentions it's v1.2).
  
 EDIT: Got it, found one on ebay, hope it's legit... Seems the 1.2s have a sticker on the upper left corner. Going to be replacing my missing 1.0 one which also had a flimsy USB connection. Hopefully they have improved the reliability issue.


----------



## Bostonears

kurt_fire said:


> I just read this over at the SH forums:
> 
> 
> > _AudioQuest will shortly release DragonFly v1.2, so they were willing to sell us DragonFly v1.0 at a low closeout price. But here's the secret scoop on v1.0. It's really a v1.1 with identical specs to the forthcoming v1.2. The original v1.0 units were updated last year in an unannounced running change. They removed a capacitor and improved the mini headphone jack to improve reliability. This version also had a software upgrade, but when you plug one into a computer, the computer still reads "DragonFly v1.0"._


 
 That of course begs the question: Exactly when did v1.1 come out, and how can we tell if our existing units have that change?


----------



## kurt_fire

I thought I read the 1.1s have a leather-like bag included in the package. The 1.0s didn't. Can anyone confirm?


----------



## Speakerphile

Deleted.


----------



## Bostonears

kurt_fire said:


> I thought I read the 1.1s have a leather-like bag included in the package. The 1.0s didn't. Can anyone confirm?


 
 I know they changed the bag along the way, but has anyone seen info to indicate that they changed the Dragonfly device hardware at the same time?


----------



## Speakerphile

So AudioAdvisor sent the following email to customers:
  
 “Why the $150 Savings?
 AudioQuest will shortly release DragonFly v1.2, so they were willing to sell us DragonFly v1.0 at a low closeout price. But here's the secret scoop on v1.0. It's really a v1.1 with identical specs to the forthcoming v1.2. The original v1.0 units were updated last year in an unannounced running change. They removed a capacitor and improved the mini headphone jack to improve reliability. This version also had a software upgrade, but when you plug one into a computer, the computer still reads "DragonFly v1.0".
  
 So get the DragonFly v1.0 at our low closeout price and enjoy superb sound quality on the cheap!”
  
  
 As it turns out, this is not true.  Hopefully AudioAdvisor will be sending out a correction.  This is coming straight from AQ.


----------



## tninety

kurt_fire said:


> I thought I read the 1.1s have a leather-like bag included in the package. The 1.0s didn't. Can anyone confirm?


 
 I thought they didn't change the version number for that one.


----------



## Speakerphile

tninety said:


> I thought they didn't change the version number for that one.


 
 The 1.1 change was made very early on and didn't have anything to do with the leather case.


----------



## mrscotchguy

speakerphile said:


> The 1.1 change was made very early on and didn't have anything to do with the leather case.




Wasn't the difference between the 1.0 and the 1.1 the 64 steps vs 60 step of attenuation respectively?

My DF came in a leather pouch, but still has volume at 0 ( OS Volume). I don't think the cloth sac vs pouch is a good determination of revision. 

Do we have an accurate way to lookup our version?


----------



## Whippler

Other than open it up and look the main board? 
 Well i had a problem with the first unit, (1st batch, string pouch), also the "DragonFly" text on it was dark / barely see able.
 On the unit i got in exchange, the DragonFly text is in white. and it came with a leather sleeve.


----------



## soloz2

Thinking about picking one of these up. So are they the same as the new v1.2 or not?


----------



## Speakerphile

soloz2 said:


> Thinking about picking one of these up. So are they the same as the new v1.2 or not?


 
 No.  But it is still a great deal. The 1.2 version will be $50 more though, so if the dough isn't a concern you may just want to order that one.


----------



## martin vegas

This dac has come right down in price now that it dropped a star from what hifi(now with4 stars)..time to bag myself a bargain for christmas..anyone heard this dac with the AKG550's?


----------



## Whippler

martin vegas said:


> This dac has come right down in price now that it dropped a star from what hifi(now with4 stars)..time to bag myself a bargain for christmas..anyone heard this dac with the AKG550's?


 
 I use my DragonFly with K550 all the time, it's great. Without amp have to keep the volume as low as 2-8 /100 on the windows. But i think i prefer it straight from DragonFly, rather than trough my Arrow 3G, witch i use with SE535.


----------



## martin vegas

whippler said:


> I use my DragonFly with K550 all the time, it's great. Without amp have to keep the volume as low as 2-8 /100 on the windows. But i think i prefer it straight from DragonFly, rather than trough my Arrow 3G, witch i use with SE535.


 
 Thanks mate, both are at a very nice price from today at my local hifi store..grab myself a bargain for Christmas!..USB DAC/Headphone Amp
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 "All hail hi-fi's newest superstar." What Hi-Fi Sound & Vision magazine. A SOUND UPGRADE FOR...
Read More
  TSP: £169.95
 SAVE £80
 £89.95

Hi-Fi Headphones
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 "Rousingly musical headphones with no obvious deficiencies" What Hi-Fi Sound & Vision magazine....
Read More
  TSP: £179.95
 SAVE £55
 £124
 3 great ways to buy


----------



## goldenSHK

speakerphile said:


> No.  But it is still a great deal. The 1.2 version will be $50 more though, so if the dough isn't a concern you may just want to order that one.


 
 The 1.2 version will be $50 more from the $99 price point (so $150) or $50 more at the regular $250 price point (so $300)?


----------



## tninety

BTW you can check the version number of your DF on a Mac under "system information" app in the USB section under hardware. Click the DragonFly. Here's a 1.0c:

  
 Should be possible in Windows or Linux (lsusb -v or something) but I don't have my desktop with me so I can't verify. 
  
 I guess there was never a 1.1 since this one was bought very recently. 
  
 There seems to be some revisions of the hardware:
  
 - Dark DragonFly text (1.0?)
 - Light DragonFly text (after 1.0?)
 - Light DragonFly text + FCC logos in white on the bottom (1.0c+?)
  
 Inclusion of leather pouch/cloth pouch doesn't seem to have any bearing on actual version number but it often corresponds because the cloth pouch was only shipped with early units...


----------



## martin vegas

What does the dragonfly dac and akg550 sound like with dance music?


----------



## swmkdr

goldenshk said:


> The 1.2 version will be $50 more from the $99 price point (so $150) or $50 more at the regular $250 price point (so $300)?


 
 According to the audio stream review the new RRP is $149.99


----------



## Speakerphile

swmkdr said:


> According to the audio stream review the new RRP is $149.99


 
 Yep, this is correct.


----------



## Speakerphile

tninety said:


> BTW you can check the version number of your DF on a Mac under "system information" app in the USB section under hardware. Click the DragonFly. Here's a 1.0c:
> 
> 
> Should be possible in Windows or Linux (lsusb -v or something) but I don't have my desktop with me so I can't verify.
> ...


 
  
 All but about the first 500 devices were version 1.1.


----------



## goldenSHK

speakerphile said:


> Yep, this is correct.


 
 Thanks, I just read audiostream, and it appears the new version blows the older one out of the water in terms of clarity and airiness so I think I might wait to simply purchase the new version if it ever goes on sale between $100-$150.


----------



## Speakerphile

goldenshk said:


> Thanks, I just read audiostream, and it appears the new version blows the older one out of the water in terms of clarity and airiness so I think I might wait to simply purchase the new version if it ever goes on sale between $100-$150.


 
  
 I will probably have one next week.  I will post my impressions.  If what AudioStream says is true, we are in for a treat.


----------



## tninety

speakerphile said:


> All but about the first 500 devices were version 1.1.


 
 I definitely have a post-1.0 device on me... I think the "1.1" is labeled as "1.0c" in USB device properties.


----------



## browncow

Can someone confirm if the new one does in fact sounds better? I just got one and I can't say I am blown away vs what I have built into my laptop (realtek HD)


----------



## Speakerphile

browncow said:


> Can someone confirm if the new one does in fact sounds better? I just got one and I can't say I am blown away vs what I have built into my laptop (realtek HD)


 
 Really?  What kind of laptop do you have?  It was night and day for me, vs. computer audio.  What other gear do you have?


----------



## browncow

I have the Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro. I was surprised myself being that it should be a no brainer with the DF's specs and integrated audio having the awful reputation that it does.


----------



## Speakerphile

browncow said:


> I have the Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro. I was surprised myself being that it should be a no brainer with the DF's specs and integrated audio having the awful reputation that it does.


 
 What headphones do you have?  Also, what was the source?


----------



## Whippler

martin vegas said:


> What does the dragonfly dac and akg550 sound like with dance music?


 
 Closest thing to dance music i have is Lindsey Stirling (Dubstep with violin) and that's pretty much the only thing. I'm into symphonic metal/metal/rock/acoustic...
 K550 has good bass, but only if the headphones fit your head.


----------



## browncow

I am testing with the Westone 4 IEM's as well as V-Moda V-80's
 Source is my laptop running MusicBee with Flac files outputting WASAPI


----------



## Speakerphile

browncow said:


> I am testing with the Westone 4 IEM's as well as V-Moda V-80's
> Source is my laptop running MusicBee with Flac files outputting WASAPI


 
 Those are both very easily driven headphones.  The "effect" won't be quite as pronounced as it would be on some harder to drive headphones.  You should still hear an improvement though.


----------



## martin vegas

Has anyone compared the dragon fly with the new dacmagic xs?


----------



## x838nwy

May be this will help; mine came with a *leather pouch* and under Mac OS it says:
  
 Product ID: 0x0081
 Vendor ID: 0x21b4
 Version: *1.0c*
 Serial Number: (C) 2011 Wavelength Audio, ltd.
  
 So, it appears to be an old*er* version, but it came with a leather pouch.
  
 Its underside (the side without the logo) is also totally black.
 The one in the Audiostream review has CE and other markings in white.


----------



## longbowbbs

Mine is a 1.0c and I bought it 4 days after they became available. It has worked flawlessly since I got it.


----------



## lextek

x838nwy said:


> May be this will help; mine came with a *leather pouch* and under Mac OS it says:
> 
> Product ID: 0x0081
> Vendor ID: 0x21b4
> ...





longbowbbs said:


> Mine is a 1.0c and I bought it 4 days after they became available. It has worked flawlessly since I got it.



I contacted Audioquest last year when there were two different pouchs were floating around. I was told at that time it was just another vendor for the pouch.


----------



## longbowbbs

> I contacted Audioquest last year when there were two different pouchs were floating around. I was told at that time it was just another vendor for the pouch.


 
 That makes sense. There is a lot of speculation about DF versions but AQ has not chimed in with any differences here or anywhere else.


----------



## Speakerphile

x838nwy said:


> May be this will help; mine came with a *leather pouch* and under Mac OS it says:
> 
> Product ID: 0x0081
> Vendor ID: 0x21b4
> ...


 
 Since no one has seen 1.1c in this "version" field.  My guess is that this is not the actual version of the DF.


----------



## kurt_fire

I hope I don't regret not spending the extra $50 for the newest version. I'll await to read people's thoughts on the new version before opening my newly bought "older" DF.


----------



## longbowbbs

kurt_fire said:


> I hope I don't regret not spending the extra $50 for the newest version. I'll await to read people's thoughts on the new version before opening my newly bought "older" DF.


 
 Don't sweat it...The original does a fine job. Unless you are using DSD or 24/192 you will not be disappointed.


----------



## daerron

The Dragonfly is great value either way and very portable and easy to use. Its actually great not having to worry about drivers or anything. I have had 2 DFs in the past which I used as stopgap DACs and I have been sorry every time I had to sell one. The Dragonfly with the Garage 1217 Project Sunrise ii was an especially fun combination to listen to. I have to admit that I thought that the 2nd DF I purchased sounded better than the first one. It sounded cleaner and had a more pronounced bass, but both lost their way a touch when the music got complicated. I often had issues with the first DF with USB audio dropouts which I never experienced with the 2nd unit.


----------



## Speakerphile

longbowbbs said:


> Don't sweat it...The original does a fine job. Unless you are using DSD or 24/192 you will not be disappointed.


 
 And if that's the case, you'd still be disappointed with the new one, as the neither of them do DSD or 24/192.  I'd be on the fence, personally.  $150 is still a good deal, for an *upgrade* to something that up until last week was $200.


----------



## martin vegas

speakerphile said:


> And if that's the case, you'd still be disappointed with the new one, as the neither of them do DSD or 24/192.  I'd be on the fence, personally.  $150 is still a good deal, for an *upgrade* to something that up until last week was $200.


 
 I am getting the dragon fly because it's a bargain and so are the akg550's!


----------



## Cotnijoe

I just got them and running them. easily the best 100 dollars I've spent. No competition... EASILY best 100 dollars spent.
  
 if you're on the fence... just do yourself a favor and get it!


----------



## martin vegas

cotnijoe said:


> I just got them and running them. easily the best 100 dollars I've spent. No competition... EASILY best 100 dollars spent.
> 
> if you're on the fence... just do yourself a favor and get it!


 
 I agree, I am getting mine for Christmas with the akg550 that have also been reduced..we all like a bargain!


----------



## Zoom25

I might be able to get one for cheap as well. Contemplating picking up the original V1.0. I'm intrigued by it's portability and size factor, and my E10 is crapping out.
  
 How is this as a DAC? Going to be pairing this with Emotiva Mini-x-a-100 ----> LCD-3. 
  
 Also, anyone try D2000 directly out of these?


----------



## joe50000

Does anyone know when the 1.2 version is coming out and when it will be available? Also, what improvements will there be?


----------



## Cotnijoe

Among the improvements, the circuitry between the DAC chip and the analog output stage has been refined to create a more direct signal path, leading to even greater transparency and immediacy. Also, the DAC’s power supply has been fortified, which gives the sound more “grip,” and even greater dynamic contrast.
  
 ^copied from website.
  
 theyre available now.


----------



## alterndog

So I have about 100 dollars in Best Buy Giftcards. I saw the that the Dragonfly has dropped to $100 on Bestbuy.com and have been looking for a DAC for my laptop, Lenovo X230 for a while. I was wondering if it is worth it to get the dragonfly. I use RE-262, BA200 and HE300 cans and listen to 320 quality MP3s, Apple Lossless Files, and stream spotify. Would I notice a difference with the dragonfly over the internal laptop DAC with the music I listen to?


----------



## Cotnijoe

Yes you will. Please do urself the favor and get it.


----------



## goldendarko

alterndog said:


> So I have about 100 dollars in Best Buy Giftcards. I saw the that the Dragonfly has dropped to $100 on Bestbuy.com and have been looking for a DAC for my laptop, Lenovo X230 for a while. I was wondering if it is worth it to get the dragonfly. I use RE-262, BA200 and HE300 cans and listen to 320 quality MP3s, Apple Lossless Files, and stream spotify. Would I notice a difference with the dragonfly over the internal laptop DAC with the music I listen to?


 

 With this setup I would say you are the ideal user for something like the Dragonfly. From what I heard of it you will be quite impressed, I don't think you will find any way to improve the sound quality of your music for any less money, that is for sure!


----------



## daerron

alterndog said:


> So I have about 100 dollars in Best Buy Giftcards. I saw the that the Dragonfly has dropped to $100 on Bestbuy.com and have been looking for a DAC for my laptop, Lenovo X230 for a while. I was wondering if it is worth it to get the dragonfly. I use RE-262, BA200 and HE300 cans and listen to 320 quality MP3s, Apple Lossless Files, and stream spotify. Would I notice a difference with the dragonfly over the internal laptop DAC with the music I listen to?


 
  
 It will be a very nice upgrade. This DAC is tailor made for what you intend to use it for.


----------



## headified

Thought i might jump in and tell how the "Dragonfly 1.2" performs compared to my previous sound-experiences.
 Iam not that much into audio although most of my Music-Collection is lossless.
  
 The Combination i've used before was a Pair of Sennheiser HD595 and onboard-Soundchips.
 First a Realtek xy(2008) Onboard and then the much better "Intel Series 7 onboard Soundchip" (2013)
 The new onboard-soundchip believe it or not was a big up compared to the old one in soundclarity and details.
 Now after purchasing the AudioQuest DragonFly 1.2 its another up on clarity and everything is nice and crisp.
 Although there is something i DON'T like about DragonFly... It in my oppinion kinda goes more into the highs and not so much into the base (300hz-area), not sure if its the headphones though, but its in my oppinion too much, it pulls the vocals too much into the front, other than that its fine.
  
  
 A few things i noticed while using it, that are kinda interesting!
 There is some kinda fading in when it is first connect to your computer, before it is at full-volume, guess that "amping" is normal though, as it just happens when you first connect it.
  
 Furthermore whenever you switch between song-titles that have a different Samplerate (like 44khz , 48 or 96khz) there is a short break meaning that the first few seconds while switching it kinda are lost, this just happens while switching though, if you stay withing the same samplerate nothing alike happens.
 This btw didnt happen on OSX and Linux.
 Apropos Linux, it works right out of the box with Ubuntu / Mint/ Arch-Linux that had a Kernelversion of 3.8 or higher without any difference in soundquality as far as i can tell.
  
  
 I guess i have to get used to it, and get another pair of Headphones or play a bit around with the EQ-Settings 
 It works with  your hifi-system as long as it has a buildin amp as mentioned.
 I tested them also with a pair of AKG K140 which got an impendance of 600ohm and it still manages to power them, although nowwhere near as loud as the Sennheiser HD595.
  
  
  
 Hope i might help out the one or another.
  
  
 Cheers.


----------



## tninety

headified said:


> Thought i might jump in and tell how the "Dragonfly 1.2" performs compared to my previous sound-experiences.
> Iam not that much into audio although most of my Music-Collection is lossless.
> 
> The Combination i've used before was a Pair of Sennheiser HD595 and onboard-Soundchips.
> ...


 
 What does it say under OS X's system report about the version?


----------



## headified

Iam not at home right-now so i dont have excess to my Mac but "lsusb -v" reports bccdDevice 1.20, so yea, it atleast has the 1.20 branding on the chip 
 And if i remember correctly previous versions didnt have the FCC/CE Code printed on the Backsite of the stick 
  
  
 If there is anything else you might want to know that i can help you with, ask.


----------



## tninety

headified said:


> Iam not at home right-now so i dont have excess to my Mac but "lsusb -v" reports bccdDevice 1.20, so yea, it atleast has the 1.20 branding on the chip
> And if i remember correctly previous versions didnt have the FCC/CE Code printed on the Backsite of the stick
> 
> 
> If there is anything else you might want to know that i can help you with, ask.


 
 Thanks, lsusb -v would work too... bought one off Ebay. The one I currently have reports 1.1c and does also have the logos on the bottom. Have you had any issues with audio crackling in any OS or hardware configuration? The DragonFly has in my experience historically had some issues with playback.


----------



## emusic13

alterndog said:


> So I have about 100 dollars in Best Buy Giftcards. I saw the that the Dragonfly has dropped to $100 on Bestbuy.com and have been looking for a DAC for my laptop, Lenovo X230 for a while. I was wondering if it is worth it to get the dragonfly. I use RE-262, BA200 and HE300 cans and listen to 320 quality MP3s, Apple Lossless Files, and stream spotify. Would I notice a difference with the dragonfly over the internal laptop DAC with the music I listen to?


 
 Im wondering this too whether the dragonfly would be a significant upgrade. I have an X220 and although for most people, the sound card on their laptops may not be good, I find that the one in the X220 is dead silent.


----------



## headified

As i sayed before, didnt have any issues with the Dragonfly so far.
  
 The only thing i noticed, is when you first connect it to the usb-port it kinda "warms-up/amps up" until it reaches its full volume, this happens on all operating systems i've testet it so far OSX,Win7,Linux.
  
 Other than that, there is a little bit of a cut-off when you switch between titles with different sample-rates (for exmaple 44khz to 48khz) but only on Win7 so far.
 Other than that there is nothing, its absolutelly clear, no crackling at all.
 And i've been listening to it for like 5 hours now, with audio-content starting at 320kbps-mp3s up to even 96khz flac-music 
  
 Haven't noticed any crackling at all, as long as you dont "over-amp" with for example "VLC Media Player", then it gets distorted, but thats normal.


----------



## browncow

yea that's a good obervation. I noticed the sound dramatically improves after a few minutes. At first I was skeptical being that it doesn't have you know... tubes! but I am digging this thing more and more. Also as an FYI I have the 1.2 which is the latest version. I haven't heard the old one so I can't compare the two but I do like it


----------



## alpha421

emusic13 said:


> Im wondering this too whether the dragonfly would be a significant upgrade. I have an X220 and although for most people, the sound card on their laptops may not be good, I find that the one in the X220 is dead silent.


 
  
 I have the same laptop, and yes, I think that the headphone out is better implemented than in most other laptops I've owned.  And yes, the Dragonfly, regardless of the version is a significant upgrade.  I've had the Dragonfly connected to my X220 via the HDE 3.0 adapter for 1.5 years and the only reason I sold it for the icon HDP is for the extra power and dynamics when using with my small active desktop speakers.  I also like the convenience of using both the HP and speakers without having to swap line in/out cables.  
  
 I can't believe the huge drop in price whether it's the old or new version.  For the current prices, it'll be one of the best buys for your computer audio setup.


----------



## alterndog

alpha421 said:


> I have the same laptop, and yes, I think that the headphone out is better implemented than in most other laptops I've owned.  And yes, the Dragonfly, regardless of the version is a significant upgrade.  I've had the Dragonfly connected to my X220 via the HDE 3.0 adapter for 1.5 years and the only reason I sold it for the icon HDP is for the extra power and dynamics when using with my small active desktop speakers.  I also like the convenience of using both the HP and speakers without having to swap line in/out cables.
> 
> I can't believe the huge drop in price whether it's the old or new version.  For the current prices, it'll be one of the best buys for your computer audio setup.


 
 you sold me on it. I'll go to Best Buy this weekend and pick up one.


----------



## martin vegas

Ended up buying a dacmagic xs with sennheiser hd25 2's..on first listen it's got a nice sound..i can hear the different instruments..can't work out how I use it with 24/192 yet!


----------



## alterndog

I got the Dragonfly today, I am trying to decipher if I can hear a difference with my he300. I definitely feel the sound is different especially on rock songs, can't pinpoint exactly what it is. I am going to do some A/Bing with the reg computer headphone jack and the dragonfly next weekend so I can make sure I want to keep the dragonfly. The build quality is pretty amazing, but wished there was a bigger case that has a zip for the usb cover, I can see myself loosing it quickly.


----------



## headified

alterndog said:


> I got the Dragonfly today, I am trying to decipher if I can hear a difference with my he300. I definitely feel the sound is different especially on rock songs, can't pinpoint exactly what it is. I am going to do some A/Bing with the reg computer headphone jack and the dragonfly next weekend so I can make sure I want to keep the dragonfly. The build quality is pretty amazing, but wished there was a bigger case that has a zip for the usb cover, I can see myself loosing it quickly.


 
 You're pretty much right about the Carrying-Bag, its way to stiff and small to fit the whole Stick tightly in there, as far as i can see, the old carrying-case bag with the string seems to be the better sollution, although this is my first Dragonfly 1.2 and therefore can't compare it to the old 
 Build-quality is okay-ish, it got a metal-case but there is some play (grip it at the front and the case, and see for yourself), but other than that you're right.
  
 I personally think, that some kind of a band for the cap, would be nice to have, still thinking that it will get lost over the time if i dont fix that


----------



## alterndog

headified said:


> You're pretty much right about the Carrying-Bag, its way to stiff and small to fit the whole Stick tightly in there, as far as i can see, the old carrying-case bag with the string seems to be the better sollution, although this is my first Dragonfly 1.2 and therefore can't compare it to the old
> Build-quality is okay-ish, it got a metal-case but there is some play (grip it at the front and the case, and see for yourself), but other than that you're right.
> 
> I personally think, that some kind of a band for the cap, would be nice to have, still thinking that it will get lost over the time if i dont fix that


 
 How do you know which version of the dragonfly you have? I thought I was buying the old one, but you make it seem like the leather carrying-case is for the new 1.2 version.


----------



## Speakerphile

alterndog said:


> How do you know which version of the dragonfly you have? I thought I was buying the old one, but you make it seem like the leather carrying-case is for the new 1.2 version.


 
 They switched to the "leather" case for the earlier models sometime after the initial release.  The 1.2 version also comes with the "leather" case though as well.  Quoting the word leather because I'd be surprised to find out that it was real leather.  It doesn't look, or smell, like real leather.


----------



## alterndog

Aw okay, I would say it possibly is real leather. I'm smelling it right now (with probably 3 people in the room looking at me doing it..) and it smells like leather.


----------



## headified

alterndog said:


> Aw okay, I would say it possibly is real leather. I'm smelling it right now (with probably 3 people in the room looking at me doing it..) and it smells like leather.


 

 It's P-Leather if you ask me.
 Hold a cigarette to it for a very short moment, if its real leather it doesnt mind that much.
 If its not but  plastic you got directly a hole in it - Rambo-Style 
  
 Asking about the version, first of it has a Sticker on the Box "New Version 1.2 even smother bla bla", furthermore if you are on a linux-system (guess that could work on the OSX-Commandline too)  and you type in lsusb -v (list usb verbose) you get  a lot of information regarding the pluged in USB-Devices one of them showing the following:
  
  bcdDevice            1.20
  
 This stands for the Device Revision Number, aka Dragonfly 1.2
  
 On windows you could simply go to the Device-Manager -- select the Dragonfly -- properties... and somewhere around there should be a list in which should also be a subitem called Version... (not sure though didnt test it)
  
 EDIT: BTW as far as i know the old version before 1.2 didnt have the FCC-Codes /CE printed on the back of the stick, so thats another method to find out if you got the latest version
  
 Cheers.


----------



## hypnagogiia

I took a chance and bought one off ebay, no returns. The new version. Random clicks and pops, no matter what file format or output method. I've tried everything that I can think of. My E17 worked fine on the same PC with USB and ASIO. This is on Windows 8.


----------



## headified

hypnagogiia said:


> I took a chance and bought one off ebay, no returns. The new version. Random clicks and pops, no matter what file format or output method. I've tried everything that I can think of. My E17 worked fine on the same PC with USB and ASIO. This is on Windows 8.


 
  
 Hmm thats sad, i have no Windows 8 OS but can't replicate what you are getting there on any other OS i've tested it on.
 It is working great here, listening to Alice Russell right now and ohh boy does it sound great 
  
 Its kinda strange but it seems like the stick got better sounding after a few hours of listening, although i think that that might be only a placebo-effect 
  
 did you think about the possibility that you just got a defective one?
 could be right?


----------



## hp300plus

hypnagogiia said:


> Random clicks and pops


 
  
 I realize your E17 worked fine, but might be worth a shot to try plugging the DF into an external powered USB hub if you have one around. Clicks and pops on USB audio devices often are a result of bad / limited power transmission which a powered USB hub might fix.


----------



## hypnagogiia

Weird... I upgraded Windows to 8.1 and I haven't heard a glitch since (I think). What makes it a bit confusing is that I just purchased my first pair of "high end" headphones, and I'm actually hearing small defects in some recordings that I never noticed before.
 Maybe I should get an external USB hub anyway. Would this degrade the SQ at all?


----------



## headified

hypnagogiia said:


> Weird... I upgraded Windows to 8.1 and I haven't heard a glitch since (I think). What makes it a bit confusing is that I just purchased my first pair of "high end" headphones, and I'm actually hearing small defects in some recordings that I never noticed before.
> Maybe I should get an external USB hub anyway. Would this degrade the SQ at all?


 
 Hmm i still don't think that is has something to do with the USB-Stick, did you check if the 3.5mm Connector is okay?
 I tried it with a pair of almost 34year old AKG K140S'es and had similiar stuff, that even disabled my left speaker?
  
 First thought was like What really a cable break? But it was something complette different, there was some kinda of corrosion, an almost non visible patina that caused that failures.
 I took a peace of a blanket and scrubbed it, and voila, the left speaker was working again, and the soundquality seemed overall better to0, check that, it might be possible too 
  
 BTW i dont think that an external USB-Hub would degrade the SQ at all.
 Iam not sure what the "E17" is, are you referring to Sonys E17-Notebook? If so, this might be able too work out as a sollution too, but ask others before considering.
  
 Iam talking about an USB-Y Cable like this : http://i.imgur.com/iO5YNo6.jpg


----------



## martin vegas

I returned my dacmagic xs for the dragon fly about 10 minutes ago!


----------



## orb2k

martin vegas said:


> I returned my dacmagic xs for the dragon fly about 10 minutes ago!


 
  
 Why? What's wrong with the Dac Magic XS? there is comparison or reviews out there.


----------



## martin vegas

orb2k said:


> Why? What's wrong with the Dac Magic XS? there is comparison or reviews out there.


 
 I wouldn't bother with any of them..the dacmagic xs sounds more like a dac than the dragonfly..save up and get something better.. the dacmagic xs never had a popping and clicking noise when watching you tube like the dragon fly has!


----------



## Cotnijoe

martin vegas said:


> I wouldn't bother with any of them..save up and get something better.. the dacmagic xs never had a popping and clicking noise when watching you tube like the dragon fly has!




If u take it out and reinsert the dragonfly the pops should go away


----------



## martin vegas

Put my cds to 24/192 now..they sound a bit better!


----------



## orb2k

martin vegas said:


> Put my cds to 24/192 now..they sound a bit better!


 
 I'm assuming you're putting it in FLAC? Also, the Dragonfly doesn't play 24/192 no...? Even if you convert it to 24/192 what happens?


----------



## headified

orb2k said:


> I'm assuming you're putting it in FLAC? Also, the Dragonfly doesn't play 24/192 no...? Even if you convert it to 24/192 what happens?


 
 It will be downsampled to 24/96 iirc 
 Btw. i have no single idea what popping and clicking you are talking about, been listening to it hours over hours (youtube too) and didnt notice a single clicking and poping sound, is this  maybe only related to the older version or windows-based?
  
 Btw. i think i read that the Dragonfly would'nt work on an USB-3.0 Port somewhere in this Thread, that is not true, atleast not under linux.
 Working here


----------



## martin vegas

headified said:


> It will be downsampled to 24/96 iirc
> Btw. i have no single idea what popping and clicking you are talking about, been listening to it hours over hours (youtube too) and didnt notice a single clicking and poping sound, is this  maybe only related to the older version or windows-based?
> 
> Btw. i think i read that the Dragonfly would'nt work on an USB-3.0 Port somewhere in this Thread, that is not true, atleast not under linux.
> Working here


 
 What headphones are you using?


----------



## alterndog

How does the Dragonfly compare to the Nuforce UDAC2 or Fiio e10?


----------



## headified

martin vegas said:


> What headphones are you using?


 
  
 Sennheiser HD595(50ohm) and AKG K140s(600ohm), but without any problem although the last one doesnt get as loud, but thats normal 
  
 No clicking poping whatsoever with either one.
  
 EDIT/Off-topic:
 It's kinda strange but i really like the mids of the AKG K140s more, than the  HD595(suppose thats what you call the 3kHz range? mainly vocals)
 They sound somehow more present, other than that the HD595 surpasses it, it terms of details, highs and lows :/
 I noticed it the most listening to pop-ballandes.


----------



## martin vegas

This is my thoughts on the dragonfly.. I think if you are looking for something with audiophile sound then look elsewhere..if you need a headphone amp and have easy to drive headphones and quite like the sound coming from your computer..then it's for you..i think it makes the sound from your computer sound a tiny bit better..doesn't sound cluttered or muddy or harsh..just cleans the sound up a tiny bit!


----------



## browncow

can you compare with the Dragonfly? How does it stack up?


----------



## martin vegas

browncow said:


> can you compare with the Dragonfly? How does it stack up?


 
 Do you mean compare the dragonfly to the dacmagic xs? The dacmagic xs was trying a bit more to sound like a cd player with a dac chip!


----------



## headified

martin vegas said:


> This is my thoughts on the dragonfly.. I think if you are looking for something with audiophile sound then look elsewhere..if you need a headphone amp and have easy to drive headphones and quite like the sound coming from your computer..then it's for you..i think it makes the sound from your computer sound a tiny bit better..doesn't sound cluttered or muddy or harsh..just cleans the sound up a tiny bit!


 
  
 Possible, but then we are talking about pricetags way higher than 150$.
 Had the chance to compare it to the Asus Xonar One today (actually right now) and the Dragonfly is on par with it or even surpasses it in my subjective test, ofc. with same audio-levels, its normal that the Xonar One will drive especially the high-impendance Headphones way higher.
  
 Just my few cents.


----------



## martin vegas

It's going back, getting something a bit better..watch this space!


----------



## PTom

Has anyone compared the original to v1.2 yet?


----------



## martin vegas

Ending up getting the arcam r dac wireless version..it works with my iphone with free app and with the free wireless dongle works from my pc over wifi..i have it plugged into my xbox in the bedroom(pc's downstairs) with my sennheiser headset and it goes through my Cambridge audio amp and wharfedale speakers for watching youtube catch up tv..it's much better than the other two dongles(dacmagic xs and dragonfly) by a long margin..not harsh sounding and the sound stage is much bigger with separation of instruments and you can hear things that you couldn't here before..peoples voices when they are talking on youtube are much more natural sounding..it's just a much better sound altogether..glad I got it now..this one definitely won't be going back!


----------



## orb2k

martin vegas said:


> Ending up getting the arcam r dac wireless version..it works with my iphone with free app and with the free wireless dongle works from my pc over wifi..i have it plugged into my xbox in the bedroom(pc's downstairs) with my sennheiser headset and it goes through my Cambridge audio amp and wharfedale speakers for watching youtube catch up tv..it's much better than the other two dongles(dacmagic xs and dragonfly) by a long margin..not harsh sounding and the sound stage is much bigger with separation of instruments and you can hear things that you couldn't here before..peoples voices when they are talking on youtube are much more natural sounding..it's just a much better sound altogether..glad I got it now..this one definitely won't be going back!


 
 I bought a DragonFly because it's cheap. My next one is Most prob Arcam Rdac or Meridian Explorer. For $99 you can't really go wrong... (well I think)

 I wish there was a comparison between rPAC, Meridian Explorer and the Dragonfly


----------



## NotAnAngel

orb2k said:


> I bought a DragonFly because it's cheap. My next one is Most prob Arcam Rdac or Meridian Explorer. For $99 you can't really go wrong... (well I think)
> 
> I wish there was a comparison between rPAC, Meridian Explorer and the Dragonfly


 
  
 Did you mean Arcam rDAC or rPAC (you mentioned both)?
  
 I have rDAC, Meridian Explorer, and AQ DF (1.0c) that I just bought less than a week ago due to $99 deal (not that I really needed it much ).


----------



## Ph3nom88

im bout to buy the dragonfly. but i dont know which one to get. the new 1.2 or 1.0? is it that much of an upgrade? i would like to save money but i dont mind getting the 1.2 if its better


----------



## amham

Sent via email by Audio Advisor...seems the makers of Dragonfly got nervous!
  
 ~~ Dear Newsletter Subscriber, This past weekend we sent out a newsletter that contained some misleading information about the AudioQuest DragonFly v1.0 USB DAC/Headphone Amp. I am writing you to correct this information. Our newsletter implied the AQ DragonFly v1.0 we are currently selling for $99.00 is the same as the newly introduced AQ DragonFly v1.2. They are not the same. The new DragonFly v1.2 has an updated circuit with fewer parts and a shorter signal path. The v1.2 offers lower noise and better sound than the earlier v1.0 version. How do you know which DragonFly version you have? The physical differences are hard to detect. The best way to tell is to plug the DragonFly into your computer. In your computer’s “System Information” under “USB” the current DragonFly on clearance will tell you it is a “v1.0”. The newest model will show up as “v1.2". I apologize for any confusion our newsletter may have caused you. I also want to personally apologize to Bill Low and Joe Harley at AudioQuest for any inconvenience we may have caused them or their team. AudioQuest has approved this message and there is no need for customers to call AudioQuest directly. Any customer who believes they may have been misled by our newsletter should contact us immediately. We will pay for the return of any DragonFly v1.0s purchased in the last thirty days. For customers who want the new, improved DragonFly v1.2, we will happily exchange your v1.0 for a newer v1.2 with free overnight shipping for the price difference of $50. Please contact Beth Thomas at 866-984-0675 or bthomas@audioadvisor.com to arrange your *exchange. Sincerely, Wayne A Schuurman, President


----------



## Cotnijoe

That's some nice customer service from audio advisor  i got mine from them


----------



## Ph3nom88

can someone please help i need to know asap. is there a big difference in the 99.99 dragonfly to the new 1.2 dragonfly. i work at bestbuy and can get a discounted dragonfly thats 99.99 which is the old one i believe. should i pull the trigger on that one or get the new 1.2? is it better, whats the difference please help ASAP ty


----------



## goldendarko

I haven't heard them both but as Amham quoted above "The v1.2 offers lower noise and better sound than the earlier v1.0 version". This most likely means there is a lower noise floor or quieter background, and is most likely a marginal improvement. The original as $100 is quite an incredible value right now and I don't think you will be disappointed.


----------



## martin vegas

Don't bother with any of the dragonflys ..save up and get something better!


----------



## NotAnAngel

goldendarko said:


> I haven't heard them both but as Amham quoted above "The v1.2 offers lower noise and better sound than the earlier v1.0 version". This most likely means there is a lower noise floor or quieter background, and is most likely a marginal improvement. The original as $100 is quite an incredible value right now and I don't think you will be disappointed.


 
  
 Lower noise would not be important to me as AQ DF 1.0c (version as reported by Mac OS X) has no noise I can hear with either (more) revealing Shure SE535 (36 Ohms), nor with (less) revealing Beyerdynamics MMX 101 iE (12 Ohms). For comparison, if I plug SE535 in Beyerdynamic A1 amp, I can hear noise (that amp was made for high impedance headphones though, no complains there).
  
 Cannot speak for sound quality of 1.2 but 1.0c sounds pretty great (and I have other good gear to compare to).
  


martin vegas said:


> Don't bother with any of the dragonflys ..save up and get something better!


 
 For such a low price? Well, I would definitely bother buying DF *and* something else (in my case I already have something else twice or maybe more )
  
 Sound quality wise, I actually prefer AQ DF 1.0c with SE535 to the sound of ($299) Meridian Explorer (that I highly like and even used as a main DAC with Kimber Silver Streak and A1) although it is a preference only - both sound great (Explorer is thinner and a bit more analytical; DF is a bit warmer and more substantial).
  
 Cannot tell much though yet as I only have maybe 100 hours with DF and less than 75 with SE535 so no decent burn-in/break-in has happened yet.


----------



## alterndog

cotnijoe said:


> That's some nice customer service from audio advisor  i got mine from them


 
 Audio Advisor is a pretty good company. They did an exchange of a headphones I had gotten for Christmas  for another pair and also have quickly and clearly answered all the questions I've ever asked them. Good company to deal with.


----------



## Cotnijoe

martin vegas said:


> Don't bother with any of the dragonflys ..save up and get something better!




Completely disagree. I would not overlook the dragonfly. I preferred them over my sony pha1 (priced at 350) and is one of the reasons why i decided to sell the pha1 (other being Battery life as i travel long distances)


----------



## Ph3nom88

ok so dragonfly 1.2 worth it or get the 99.99 one at bestbuy that is 1.something.....


----------



## alpha421

You better have good and revealing gear and source along with a good set of ears to determine if the v1.2 is better over the predecessors. Lets not kid ourselves. Audioquest is creating a double whammy for themselves with the holidays by selling the Dragonfly that I originally paid $250 for $99 and a newer version for $50 more.  Bottom line is - you can't go wrong with either one.  Why are folks making the decision so hard?


----------



## Ph3nom88

alpha421 said:


> You better have good and revealing gear and source along with a good set of ears to determine if the v1.2 is better over the predecessors. Lets not kid ourselves. Audioquest is creating a double whammy for themselves with the holidays by selling the Dragonfly that I originally paid $250 for $99 and a newer version for $50 more.  Bottom line is - you can't go wrong with either one.  Why are folks making the decision so hard?


 
 cause people said newer one is better. im jus wondering if its worth it or no. so yea or no and get the old one?


----------



## RUMAY408

ph3nom88 said:


> cause people said newer one is better. im jus wondering if its worth it or no. so yea or no and get the old one?


 
 Here's my take get the older version cheap. If you have the common Head-Fi disease you will want to upgrade eventually. Spend less now, so you can spend more later.


----------



## browncow

unfortunately at least in windows 8 the version # does not show up in Device Manager


----------



## goldendarko

its better but not necessarily 1.5 times the price better, but thats just the way things work in the audio world, you need to pick your budget and find the best option in that range.


----------



## Ph3nom88

goldendarko said:


> its better but not necessarily 1.5 times the price better, but thats just the way things work in the audio world, you need to pick your budget and find the best option in that range.


 
  
 i work at best buy...i get the old one for a discount at...around $72. i can buy the newer one no problem but is it worth it. i can get it but wondering if its worth it. that's all.


----------



## RUMAY408

ph3nom88 said:


> i work at best buy...i get the old one for a discount at...around $72. i can buy the newer one no problem but is it worth it. i can get it but wondering if its worth it. that's all.


 
 It's the best $72 in audio bucks you will spend.  The FiiO E11 portable amp is in the same price bang for buck ballpark.


----------



## Ph3nom88

rumay408 said:


> It's the best $72 in audio bucks you will spend.  The FiiO E11 portable amp is in the same price bang for buck ballpark.


 
 thanks. i just want to make sure. im not missin much from not getting the newer version? also this is just a dac and not a amp. do i need an amp for this for it to work properly or no?  i can go computer usb to dragonfly dac to headphone? imma be using it on my computer with my soon to have akg k545.


----------



## RUMAY408

ph3nom88 said:


> thanks. i just want to make sure. im not missin much from not getting the newer version? also this is just a dac and not a amp. do i need an amp for this for it to work properly or no?  i can go computer usb to dragonfly dac to headphone? imma be using it on my computer with my soon to have akg k545.


 
 The DF is 80% DAC and 20% AMP (125mw@32 ohms), personally I would us at minimum FiiO E11 ($60) portable amp much better than the DF alone.  DF better DAC than AMP.


----------



## NotAnAngel

alpha421 said:


> You better have good and revealing gear and source along with a good set of ears to determine if the v1.2 is better over the predecessors. Lets not kid ourselves. Audioquest is creating a double whammy for themselves with the holidays by selling the Dragonfly that I originally paid $250 for $99 and a newer version for $50 more.  Bottom line is - you can't go wrong with either one.  Why are folks making the decision so hard?


 
  
 Why? I think because people like to suffer (through the decision making), makes life more challenging thus more interesting 
  
 Is it worth it? Be your own judge (my quick test setup in order to get "AQ DF 1.0c" like sound from Meridian Explorer; something I just did by accident).
  
 1. Audirvana Plus (24/96 source from hdtracks) + Wireworld Starlight 7 + Meridian Explorer (headphone out) + Shure SE535
  
 Failed; I really did not like the sound; I think Meridian Explorer headphone amp does not have good synergy with SE535 (Explorer sounded way better with Beyer MMX 101 iE but these IEMs are just not my cup of tee). Sound is very analytical, no lows, thin (the opposite of MMX 101, where there was way too much lows). Very clean, a lot of high details, just no lows/too analytical. To get a comfortable sound I would crank up the volume where mids would become too loud. This somewhat reminded me AKG Q701 that I did not like at the time.
  
 My conclusion: not my sound; some of AKG Q701 owners might respectfully disagree though 
  
 ---
 EDIT (2 days later): "No lows" would be a somewhat misleading statement. I carefully re-listened both Explorer and DF back-to-back, and Explorer does have a decent level of bass; it is tighter and there is less of it (compared to DF).
 ---
  
 2. (same as No.1 only with external amp through Explorer line out)
 Audirvana Plus (24/96 source from hdtracks) + Wireworld Startlight 7 + Meridian Explorer (line out) + Kimber Silver Streak + Graham Slee Novo + Shure SE535
  
 OK, this is much better - lows are back, sound is less thin, mids are not standing out anymore (still a bit analytical but not too bad).
  
 My conclusion: Explorer required careful matching if used with headphones directly; external amp though works great (always did for me).
  
 To my total surprise, the sound of No.2 was very close to what I was getting from SE535 being plugged directly into AQ DF 1.0c... (*and* I would still prefer DF, but that's just me). Now, it should probably become very obvious by now that *alpha421* was absolutely right - even for $250 it was a steal.
  
 BTW, owning both Dragonfly and Explorer, I don't agree how WhatHiFi dropped a star (5->4) from Dragonfly's review when Explorer was released; I think they are both great products that are different enough with each deserving 5 stars easily; one just needs to carefully match them to the rest of the system (especially headphones if used directly).


----------



## Ph3nom88

rumay408 said:


> The DF is 80% DAC and 20% AMP (125mw@32 ohms), personally I would us at minimum FiiO E11 ($60) portable amp much better than the DF alone.  DF better DAC than AMP.


 
 so go from fiio e11 to dragonfly?? i thought both were samething. also how would i go bout hooking it all up? like computer to fiio e11 to dragon fly to headphone?


----------



## Ph3nom88

notanangel said:


> Why? I think because people like to suffer (through the decision making), makes life more challenging thus more interesting
> 
> Is it worth it? Be your own judge (my quick test setup in order to get "AQ DF 1.0c" like sound from Meridian Explorer; something I just did by accident).
> 
> ...


 
 nice info. so i should be ok with the older version of the dragonfly i just got over the newer model? and will i be without an amp? i be going straight from usb 2.0 or 3.0 from computer to my dragonfly to my akg k545. and thanks for the help!


----------



## RUMAY408

ph3nom88 said:


> so go from fiio e11 to dragonfly?? i thought both were samething. also how would i go bout hooking it all up? like computer to fiio e11 to dragon fly to headphone?


 
 DF is the DAC, FiiO E11 is the amp DF.  Like this Laptop>USB>DF>Amp>HP powers all but the most high end HP's.  The HP you have will sound very fine.


----------



## Ph3nom88

rumay408 said:


> DF is the DAC, FiiO E11 is the amp DF.  Like this Laptop>USB>DF>Amp>HP powers all but the most high end HP's.  The HP you have will sound very fine.


 
 ok thanks. i didnt think i needed a amp to go with the dragonfly but i get it when i can. is there any u recommend beside the fiio e11? i need to save money up for it now.


----------



## NotAnAngel

ph3nom88 said:


> ok thanks. i didnt think i needed a amp to go with the dragonfly but i get it when i can. is there any u recommend beside the fiio e11? i need to save money up for it now.


 

 You *really* do not need to (it has very decent amp already), but you certainly can, if you wanted to.
  
 Personally, I use DF purely as a portable device (with Shure SE535), and would not even think about getting an amp as what I am getting out of DF is very good already. But again, you have to try your own headphones to make sure the combo sounds the way *you* like it.


----------



## NotAnAngel

ph3nom88 said:


> nice info. so i should be ok with the older version of the dragonfly i just got over the newer model? and will i be without an amp? i be going straight from usb 2.0 or 3.0 from computer to my dragonfly to my akg k545. and thanks for the help!


 

 I just got the "old" version too, just like you did, and would not be considering the new one (I did get it through Audio Advisor that offered a free +50$ exchange for 1.2 version, if I wanted to).
  
 My logic here is "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" meaning that I already like the sound with SE535, and I don't know if this kind of synergy will remain in place with 1.2 (especially if amp was modified). It probably will though.


----------



## Whippler

notanangel said:


> You *really* do not need to (it has very decent amp already), but you certainly can, if you wanted to.
> 
> Personally, I use DF purely as a portable device (with Shure SE535), and would not even think about getting an amp as what I am getting out of DF is very good already. But again, you have to try your own headphones to make sure the combo sounds the way *you* like it.


 
 Wow, when i plug my se535 to Dragonfly, there is pretty bad background his. And volume is okey when its set to 0 in windows for the DF, going up from that makes it too loud . Can't use it with se535 unless i put amp in between to tame the loudness and get rid of the hiss.
  
 Anyway i use DF home with K550, and that's a pretty sweet combo.


----------



## NotAnAngel

whippler said:


> Wow, when i plug my se535 to Dragonfly, there is pretty bad background his. And volume is okey when its set to 0 in windows for the DF, going up from that makes it too loud . Can't use it with se535 unless i put amp in between to tame the loudness and get rid of the hiss.
> 
> Anyway i use DF home with K550, and that's a pretty sweet combo.


 

 That is weird. I use it with Macs (2009 MacBook Pro and 2011 iMac) and both are perfectly quiet/black - no hiss or anything I could hear, even if I max out volume. I use Audirvana (normal volume at about 9AM (the range is 7AM to 5PM) but I don't think it matters in this context.
  
 Have you tried it with other computers? When did you buy DF? Mine is about one week old, version 1.0c as reported by Mac.


----------



## Whippler

notanangel said:


> That is weird. I use it with Macs (2009 MacBook Pro and 2011 iMac) and both are perfectly quiet/black - no hiss or anything I could hear, even if I max out volume. I use Audirvana (normal volume at about 9AM (the range is 7AM to 5PM) but I don't think it matters in this context.
> 
> Have you tried it with other computers? When did you buy DF? Mine is about one week old, version 1.0c as reported by Mac.


 
 Not really, it's just my ears. I bought it over a year ago, got 1st production unit. Got the crackling problems, and got it replaced under warranty few months back. SE535 is a sensitive iem they his from quite a selection of sources. Like my 3y old phone, little bit from clip+. Lot of his from studio V. Tried couple new phones, galaxy line up @ store, no his from those. And Arrow 4G pretty much cleans up the his out damn well.


----------



## NotAnAngel

whippler said:


> Not really, it's just my ears. I bought it over a year ago, got 1st production unit. Got the crackling problems, and got it replaced under warranty few months back. SE535 is a sensitive iem they his from quite a selection of sources. Like my 3y old phone, little bit from clip+. Lot of his from studio V. Tried couple new phones, galaxy line up @ store, no his from those. And Arrow 4G pretty much cleans up the his out damn well.


 

 Agree, SE535 are very sensitive. I get slight hiss from Beyerdynamic A1 too - it is not made for such IEMs. No hiss with Graham Slee Novo though.
  
 I am wondering if we have a slightly different hardware in our DFs or maybe just the computer? Cannot think of anything else (and I do have pretty good hearing too).


----------



## aprairie

Hopefully you pulled the trigger....agree with others on the thread that for ~$80 you can't go wrong.  Spend the extra cash on your PC audio s/w and wait for the upgrade bug to bite.
  
 I love my Dragonfly and use with with Grado's when at office and Ety 4Ps when travelling.  Mirror my music library on a portable drive so I can listen when on work trips.  Best listening experience regardless of what hotel in what part of the world I'm in that i can squeeze into a carry on bag without blinking an eye.
  
 Drew


----------



## vrln

Has anyone measured the new versions output impedance yet? Wondering if it would be a good match for highly sensitive low impedance BA-IEMs.


----------



## orb2k

aprairie said:


> Hopefully you pulled the trigger....agree with others on the thread that for ~$80 you can't go wrong.  Spend the extra cash on your PC audio s/w and wait for the upgrade bug to bite.
> 
> I love my Dragonfly and use with with Grado's when at office and Ety 4Ps when travelling.  Mirror my music library on a portable drive so I can listen when on work trips.  Best listening experience regardless of what hotel in what part of the world I'm in that i can squeeze into a carry on bag without blinking an eye.
> 
> Drew




Are you using your DF through a LAPTOP? what's your portable rig?


----------



## aprairie

"Rig" seems like to big a word. When I travel I use a vizio windows 8.1 laptop (full disclosure, I work for AMD and the laptop uses our processor), a portable USB 3 HDD with my media library (alac or flac, some 24/96 or greater), dragonfly and then either directly into the ER4-P or into a Leckerton UHA4 and then into the phones. 

Music player is Jriver 19. The dragonfly, headphones, and HDD all go into the carry on bag and barely add any weight. Amazing the portable quality and size of library I can travel with vs just 5 years ago. Jriver allows me to keep a "travel" library and a "work" library which is great too. 

Drew


----------



## zoso86

I just have this amazing little device. currently I am running windows Xp and using dragonfly with asio4all. do I need install windows 7 for wasapi output? does it make a difference? which is better for me. asio output or wasapi output? is there a huge sound quality difference? thanks


----------



## Speakerphile

ph3nom88 said:


> ok thanks. i didnt think i needed a amp to go with the dragonfly but i get it when i can. is there any u recommend beside the fiio e11? i need to save money up for it now.


 
 Not to throw a curve ball after it appears that you made your decision, but being a Best Buy employee you can also get the DF 1.2 for a discount.  Either way, it is very much worth it.  Shoot me a PM and I will give you the details.


----------



## NotAnAngel

whippler said:


> Wow, when i plug my se535 to Dragonfly, there is pretty bad background his. And volume is okey when its set to 0 in windows for the DF, going up from that makes it too loud . Can't use it with se535 unless i put amp in between to tame the loudness and get rid of the hiss.
> 
> Anyway i use DF home with K550, and that's a pretty sweet combo.


 
  
  


notanangel said:


> That is weird. I use it with Macs (2009 MacBook Pro and 2011 iMac) and both are perfectly quiet/black - no hiss or anything I could hear, even if I max out volume. I use Audirvana (normal volume at about 9AM (the range is 7AM to 5PM) but I don't think it matters in this context.
> 
> Have you tried it with other computers? When did you buy DF? Mine is about one week old, version 1.0c as reported by Mac.


 

 I have to clarify/correct my own post about the hiss/noise with Shure SE535: "no hiss" is not exactly right*.*
  
 1. DF: At the normal listening level, if I try very hard, I can detect it (plug/unplug headphones) - *Whippler* had a point here (my hiss level seems to be lower).
  
 Practically, it is virtually nonexistent (unless you unplug headphones, you cannot tell it is there, and even then, it borders with outside background noise I can still hear through the foam ear sleeves (-37dB of attenuation I think).
  
 If I max out volume though, I do get quite audible hiss/noise/static. Usage wise, I will never be able to listen at the volumes where the hiss exists (higher than 9-10AM, with the 7AM-5PM range on Audirvana Plus).
  
 2. I do get a bit of audible hiss with SE535 driven by all of my external amps (Beyerdynamic A1, Graham Slee Novo, and Musical Fidelity M1HPA). The hiss comes from the amps though, not from DF (meaning it exists even if I unplug DF; also maxing out DF volume to put it in "fixed" mode does not change the level of noise). I can only hear this kind of hiss when there is no music (as ususal).
  
 To summarize, DF has the least amount of hiss/noise out of all of my external amps, at the normal listening level and while driving Shure SE535. I guess I am OK with that


----------



## ramadugu

Sorry for asking this question:
 Does the version 1.0 work with USB Audio Recorder Pro app and OTG cable. My music player being Samsung Galaxy S4.
 Thanks in advance!


----------



## aprairie

Have not tried on an S4 (don't have one) but on my S3 it was a no go....at least directly connected to the phone.  Might be able to make it work with a powered hub, but that defeated the purpose of being mobile for me so I haven't bothered to try it.
  
 Drew


----------



## CNB3

Ordered the $99 dragonfly off amazon (great deal, given I'd already been mulling it over at $250); just received it and it's v1.2.  So even better deal!
  
 Question - any downside to using it in a powered usb hub, rather than plugged directly into my macbook?


----------



## ramadugu

cnb3 said:


> Ordered the $99 dragonfly off amazon (great deal, given I'd already been mulling it over at $250); just received it and it's v1.2.  So even better deal!
> 
> Question - any downside to using it in a powered usb hub, rather than plugged directly into my macbook?


 

 Do you know which seller was it that shipped the product? The $99 is sold by KraftStudio and AudioAdvisor.
 If I know, I am thinking to buy one as well.
 Thanks,
 Sai


----------



## lextek

cnb3 said:


> Ordered the $99 dragonfly off amazon (great deal, given I'd already been mulling it over at $250); just received it and it's v1.2.  So even better deal!
> 
> 
> 
> Question - any downside to using it in a powered usb hub, rather than plugged directly into my macbook?



Great deal. I've used mine with and without a powered hub and it sounded the same. Very, good. Even the "old" 1.0 version.


----------



## henriks

Maybe a dumb question, i saw that Blue microphones works with ipad through "Apple's camera connection kit" any chance that DF does too??


----------



## lextek

henriks said:


> Maybe a dumb question, i saw that Blue microphones works with ipad through "Apple's camera connection kit" any chance that DF does too??



I had to use a powered hub with the iPad to work with the Dragonfly.


----------



## NotAnAngel

cnb3 said:


> Question - any downside to using it in a powered usb hub, rather than plugged directly into my macbook?


 
  
 I would not. On the power side, my Mac says that DF v1.0c requires only 200 mA (with 500 mA being available) so there seem to be no reason for that - unless you would want to use some crazy, audio-grade, clean USB power supply. Also, I remember reading on some DAC manufacturer website that they did not recommend using any USB hub but don't quote me on this one 
  
  
 If you did use the hub, consider that USB Audio would have to travel through a (not very good quality, audio wise) USB cable of the hub, plus possibly the effect of the hub itself. One of the advantages of DF is that no USB cable is necessary. In my main system, for example, I use Wireworld Starlight 7 USB cable so I know the difference between a regular and a good USB cable.
  
  
 Practically, I did some experiments with DF and a good quality Belkin USB hub ($30+) out of pure curiosity, and there was quite a noticeable difference in the sound (plugged in directly sounded better). I even replaced USB hub's cable with a Wirewold one and it still did not sound as good as the direct connection.
  
  
 At the end of the day though, I would try both scenarios and see if you could tell any difference SQ wise.


----------



## wbree

How can you check if the Dragonfly USB stick is version 1.2 instead  of 1.0 and not by looking at the sticker on the box.


----------



## headified

wbree said:


> How can you check if the Dragonfly USB stick is version 1.2 instead  of 1.0 and not by looking at the sticker on the box.


 
  
  
 I think you can't without using eather a OS X or a linux live-cd of your choice and typing "lsusb -v" into the Terminal, to see if there is something like that in the Device-Descriptor -> " bcdDevice            1.20"
  
 I tried it on Windows but it seems like there isnt a possibilty to check it over the Device-Manager.
  
  
 So you rather have a OS-X Machine or download a Linux-Live CD (Ubuntu,Fedora whatever) of your choise and boot it up, plug the Dragonfly in, and do as i told you above 
  
  
BTW: 
 Is it normal that under Win7, you have to choose the according sample-rate without the option do dynamically chance it, depending on the audio-file?
 On Linux it uses automatically the Samplerate the according Audiofile has(dynamically), but on Win7 it seems like it is fixed depending on the Settings i choose for the Dragonfly under "Sounds".
  
  
 I'am using Foobar2000 btw.
  
  
 Kind Regards.


----------



## ULUL

I too would love to know if there's a way in Windows 8 that can double check what version I am testing for a review.  Thanks. 
 Also, curious if anyone got a version 1.2 from Audio Advisor for the $99 unit.


----------



## bwhli

cnb3 said:


> Ordered the $99 dragonfly off amazon (great deal, given I'd already been mulling it over at $250); just received it and it's v1.2.  So even better deal!
> 
> Question - any downside to using it in a powered usb hub, rather than plugged directly into my macbook?


 
 Also interested in what seller you purchased from! That's a great deal.


----------



## ULUL

Do you mean as the above being the version 1.2?   Can anyone else confirm? 
  
 Thanks!


> EDIT: BTW as far as i know the old version before 1.2 didnt have the FCC-Codes /CE printed on the back of the stick, so thats another method to find out if you got the latest version
> 
> Cheers.


----------



## kong

ulul said:


>


 

 IIRC, the 1.2 will have that print on the back, but also some newer 1.0 DF too. The most accurate way to verify is to use the lsusb command mentioned earlier.


----------



## Speakerphile

ulul said:


>


 
 I can confirm that my early 1.0 does not have these graphics and my 1.2 does.  Of course it IS possible that this change was made before the 1.2 was produced.  The marks seem to be regulatory in nature and were probably not implemented exactly at the beginning of the 1.2 production.


----------



## Whippler

headified said:


> I think you can't without using eather a OS X or a linux live-cd of your choice and typing "lsusb -v" into the Terminal, to see if there is something like that in the Device-Descriptor -> " bcdDevice            1.20"
> 
> I tried it on Windows but it seems like there isnt a possibilty to check it over the Device-Manager.
> 
> ...


 
 With foobar you can make it automatic, by by passing the windows own audio drivers. Install this component: 
http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_out_wasapi
 in foobar go file -> preferences -> output
 from the device dropdown select WASAPI Event (Dragonfly...)
  
 Now you can't hear any windows sounds trough dragonfly when playing music from foobar, since it has the control over the device. The volume of the dragonfly is still controlled by windows, so you should still change DF as default audiodevice in windows settings, othervice you can't control the volume.(well you can use the foobar vol control, afaik it's digital tough) Or you can have foobar playing to DF and have windows have another audio device set and it will play it's sounds from there.


----------



## Speakerphile

1.0 is on the left, 1.2 on the right, in both photos.


----------



## Cotnijoe

Mine has the icons on the back and its suppose to be 1.0


----------



## PTom

Mine too and it says 1.0c on OSX System Report.


----------



## snip3r77

Mine came from amazon's US99 offer and it has the icons.

I'm using win7, how do I check if it's v1.2 ?

Cheers


----------



## alpha421

speakerphile said:


> 1.0 is on the left, 1.2 on the right, in both photos.


 
  I've owned both.  Neither are v1.2 according to the time frames of purchase.
  
 Quote:
  


snip3r77 said:


> Mine came from amazon's US99 offer and it has the icons.
> 
> I'm using win7, how do I check if it's v1.2 ?
> 
> Cheers


 
  
 I was unable to check the firmware on my Win7 with either one I had.  However, if you paid $99, you should assume 99% probability that you have a none v1.2.  I read somewhere that it is stamped v.1.2 somewhere on the box, is this true?


----------



## Cotnijoe

Honestly... i paid 100 bucks. got a great sounding little guy. could careless which it is. If 1.0 well i got what i paid for, if 150... great. Still sounds good.


----------



## wbree

@headified
  
 Thanks!
  
 It works and it looks that I have the 1.20 version.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 BTW: In the Netherlands I had to pay € 119,- . 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Wilco


----------



## headified

@Whippler
 First thank you for pointing out the fix for Foobar2000, was kinda terrible to switch it according to the samplerate 
  
  
  
 And as mentioned before, it seems like the only way to be on the safe side is to check it with ether OSX or a linux-live CD of your choice using "lsusb -v" on the terminal.
 Other than that it seems like Windows hasn't enabled such a feature in Windows 7 (not sure about Windows 8 though...)
  
 Other than that there is like a sticker on the front of the box saying its version 1.2, although a tricky Ebayer could sell you a version 1.0(x) Stick with a 1.2 Box, although with a legit dealer this isnt most-likely to happen.
  
  
 OSX and Linux have this in common as both were, at some point derived from UNIX.
  
 BTW. the print of the back of the USB-Stick means nothing, as it seems like some version 1.0c-Devices have it already on it 
  
  
 @Speakerphile
  
 As you have both of the sticks, did you notice any difference at all between them, that are above the level you would probably call it a placebo-effect?
 I mean real big differences?
  
  
 Kind regards.


----------



## ULUL

Apologies, but may I ask what 'Terminal' is in Linux?  Pardon my ignorance on this matter.  I may have a laptop with Linux that I can try. 

 Thanks,
 UL
  
 Quote:


headified said:


> I think you can't without using eather a OS X or a linux live-cd of your choice and typing "lsusb -v" into the Terminal, to see if there is something like that in the Device-Descriptor -> " bcdDevice            1.20"
> 
> I tried it on Windows but it seems like there isnt a possibilty to check it over the Device-Manager.
> 
> ...


----------



## kong

ulul said:


>


 

 It's a command line interface, just like Command Prompt on Windows.


----------



## gefski

Out of town with just my PC>flac or wav>Jplay>original DF>Grado SR60. This should sound like crap compared to my desktop at home. Nope, this is unreasonably close to high fidelity, and I'm completely immersed in it.

Strain relief cradle via pipe insulation is kinda mickeymouse, but it works.


----------



## Cotnijoe

gefski said:


> Out of town with just my PC>flac or wav>Jplay>original DF>Grado SR60. This should sound like crap compared to my desktop at home. Nope, this is unreasonably close to high fidelity, and I'm completely immersed in it.
> 
> Strain relief cradle via pipe insulation is kinda mickeymouse, but it works.


 
  
 so ghetto. I love it!


----------



## RUMAY408

Just a reminder:  Read the thread from the beginning if you want to see $250 (original DF) mistakes, and worse-
  
 For anyone who buys an old or new DF please use a USB extension, save your computer and DF. USB extensions are cheap (I use a $6 mediabridge) or the Dragontail.


----------



## earfonia

speakerphile said:


> 1.0 is on the left, 1.2 on the right, in both photos.


 
  
 Is there any noticeable differences in sound signature between 1.0 and 1.2 ?


----------



## headified

> Originally Posted by *ULUL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Apologies, but may I ask what 'Terminal' is in Linux?  Pardon my ignorance on this matter.  I may have a laptop with Linux that I can try.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Absolutely no problem mate!
 As someone stated before its like command-prompt on Windows 7.
  
 I thought it would might be useful for one or another to see how its done under Linux so i made a little picture-tutorial.
  
  
 1. Download Ubuntu-Linux Live-CD Iso and burn it onto a CD or a USB-Stick (your choice).
  
 2. After you've done so, boot it up by selecting too boot from CD(or USB), and select to try it out without installation.
  
 3. After that you're on the Desktop, which should look like this:

  
 4. Then you go to the top-icon on the left (looks like a lens somehow) and type in "terminal" and click on the appearing application like so:

  
 5. Click it and you get something like this:

  
 6. Into that newly appeared terminal-window you type in "lsusb -v" which will basically list all your USB-Ports and their features, including the Dragonfly if it is connected to the pc, which should look like this:


 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
 This would basically work with any Linux-Distribution, i've just choosen Ubuntu-Linux because its a pretty if not the most user-friendly Distribution out there and pretty much straight-forward for the not-into-tech guys&girls 
  
  
 BTW:
  
 @ Cotnijoe
  
 Its true that the weight of the headphone-jack should be taken into consideration as it pretty much bends down the stick and later might even damage the Dragonfly and your USB-Port.
 Especially when it has to be used with -->6,3mm->3,5mm->Dragonfly! So rather use a short usb-extension cable like the Dragontail or something to lighten the stress on it like Cotnijoe.
  
  
 Kind Regards.


----------



## Cotnijoe

headified said:


> @ Cotnijoe
> 
> Its true that the weight of the headphone-jack should be taken into consideration as it pretty much bends down the stick and later might even damage the Dragonfly and your USB-Port.
> Especially when it has to be used with -->6,3mm->3,5mm->Dragonfly! So rather use a short usb-extension cable like the Dragontail or something to lighten the stress on it like Cotnijoe.


 
  
 Oh absolutely! I just love the extent people go for their gear and for better audio. Have you seen some people's "portable" stacks? haha


----------



## Speakerphile

earfonia said:


> Is there any noticeable differences in sound signature between 1.0 and 1.2 ?


 
 I keep meaning to sit down and donate some time to a comparison!  I can't seem to find any spare time.  Initial impressions are that they are very close.  I will post again with some more detailed observations soon.


----------



## PolkManiac

So do we seriously have NO comparisons between the new and old version yet, or did I miss it somewhere?


----------



## NotAnAngel

headified said:


> Its true that the weight of the headphone-jack should be taken into consideration as it pretty much bends down the stick and later might even damage the Dragonfly and your USB-Port.
> Especially when it has to be used with -->6,3mm->3,5mm->Dragonfly! So rather use a short usb-extension cable like the Dragontail or something to lighten the stress on it like Cotnijoe.
> 
> 
> Kind Regards.


 
  
  


cotnijoe said:


> Oh absolutely! I just love the extent people go for their gear and for better audio. Have you seen some people's "portable" stacks? haha


 
  
 It's all about compromises when you go portable and some people are just not ready to (compromise), and I have a lot of respect for that.
  
 For example, I would never use any kind of USB cable between DF and my laptop as it negatively affects sound quality (and *especially* cheap USB cables). That's one of the advantages of DF to me, btw - no USB cable is needed. I have a ~$100 USB cable in my main system and it is about at the point where decent USB cables start.
  
 So I accept a potential risk of damaging my equipment if I was not careful enough (although considering how I use DF, there is no risk really; it's plugged into my laptop at work and if I take it anywhere out of the office, I always unplug DF anyway).
  
 And the beauty of this is that we all have different opinions and priorities that effect our decisions. That's why I would not laugh if someone used a $6 USB cable for the sake of convenience/equipment protection, but in my usage scenario it would not make any sense.


----------



## headified

notanangel said:


> It's all about compromises when you go portable and some people are just not ready to (compromise), and I have a lot of respect for that.
> 
> For example, I would never use any kind of USB cable between DF and my laptop as it negatively affects sound quality (and *especially* cheap USB cables). That's one of the advantages of DF to me, btw - no USB cable is needed. I have a ~$100 USB cable in my main system and it is about at the point where decent USB cables start.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Trust me, it will bend down if you dont support the stick to some extent as someone here already proven it 
 No matter how carefully you use it, even if you wouldn't move the Notebook its connected to by a single inch from its place.
  
 Of course if you use little In-Ears which come already with a 3,5mm-Connector this won't be as noticeable as with the Combination of 6,3mm+3,5mm Adapter
 like i got it here(Image got blurry, autofocus didn't work right now, but you get what i mean anyways) :

  
 Its really double the weight of the Dragonfly, and the Dragonfly by itself is already pretty decently heavy for a USB-Stick of that size 
 So yea no matter what,  try to use something to lessen the stress on the USB-Port  if you have smallish 3,5mm In-Ear Plugs this wouldn't be that bad i guess but anyways 
  
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
 @ Cotnijoe
  
 Yea i've seen some pretty "portable" Rigs already 
 I personally have a decently lighter variant of those portable rigs
  
 (Xperia Z1 + Dragonfly + UE triple.fi10) :  -->  http://youtu.be/xyeg1dtBCqc
  
  
 Kind Regards!


----------



## derbigpr

Just a question...is there any theoretical advantage or disadvantage of using such a small USB powered DAC over a full sized desktop DAC for around the same price...lets say 200-300 dollars entry level offerings? I'm talking about using it strictly as a DAC that would feed an amplifier.


----------



## alterndog

So I am looking at the dragonfly, but can also get the Fiio e10 for just $45. Is the Dragonfly worth the extra 50 dollars?


----------



## NotAnAngel

headified said:


> Trust me, it will bend down if you dont support the stick to some extent as someone here already proven it
> No matter how carefully you use it, even if you wouldn't move the Notebook its connected to by a single inch from its place.
> 
> Of course if you use little In-Ears which come already with a 3,5mm-Connector this won't be as noticeable as with the Combination of 6,3mm+3,5mm Adapter
> ...


 

 Completely agree; an extra adapter makes quite a difference here.
  
 In my case, it is Shure SE535 (3.5mm, more or less lightweight connector/cable) and MacBook Pro (USB connector feels strong enough to hold DF with SE535 with no problem).


----------



## NotAnAngel

derbigpr said:


> Just a question...is there any theoretical advantage or disadvantage of using such a small USB powered DAC over a full sized desktop DAC for around the same price...lets say 200-300 dollars entry level offerings? I'm talking about using it strictly as a DAC that would feed an amplifier.


 
  
 Performance, performance, performance...  Also, no dedicated line out, no optical/coax input (if you need one, of course), and you are paying for a headphone amp that you are going to use as a line out (while could be OK, it is not exactly right).
  
 DF is a very good little device but I would not (and do not) use it as part of a desktop only system (I use Arcam rDAC, and I would not try to compare).
  
 To stay within your budget, I would look at something like this brand new model of Musical Fidelity V90-DAC (if you are OK with 24/96 and do not require 24/192; $299 at Audio Advisor). I owned their older DACs in the past and the performance was very good (although did not listen to V90-DAC yet).
  
 Of course, there are a lot of choices so just try as many as you can, in your own listening environment, until you find something you like.
  
 If you want to use as both though (portable/desktop) and like the sound, then why not?


----------



## derbigpr

notanangel said:


> Performance, performance, performance...  Also, no dedicated line out, no optical/coax input (if you need one, of course), and you are paying for a headphone amp that you are going to use as a line out (while could be OK, it is not exactly right).
> 
> DF is a very good little device but I would not (and do not) use it as part of a desktop only system (I use Arcam rDAC, and I would not try to compare).
> 
> ...





I have the MF M1DAC already, but it's to damn big and heavy...it's a mess transporting it around the house, let alone taking it somewhere with me, so I was thinking of something smaller. Meridian Explorer came to my mind, as well as Arcam rDAC and Micromega Mydac (which apparently sounds way better than M1DAC, says everyone who works in the store in my country where both are sold, and it costs half as much). All of them are small deskop DAC's that I could take around, but none have headphone outputs, which could be practical....meh, I don't know...I'm kinda losing my excitement for hi-fi in general. I have a Beyerdynamic T1 as my main headphone, MF M1HPAp amp and M1DAC, and I don't like the way it sounds. I mean, it sounds good, but is it worth 2000 euros in total? Hell no, because I still spend most of my time listening to Sennheiser HD202, and I'm so happy with it I feel lazy standing up from the chair to take the T1's out of their box...I don't wanna fold that cable all the time...


----------



## NotAnAngel

derbigpr said:


> I have the MF M1DAC already, but it's to damn big and heavy...it's a mess transporting it around the house, let alone taking it somewhere with me, so I was thinking of something smaller. Meridian Explorer came to my mind, as well as Arcam rDAC and Micromega Mydac (which apparently sounds way better than M1DAC, says everyone who works in the store in my country where both are sold, and it costs half as much). All of them are small deskop DAC's that I could take around, but none have headphone outputs, which could be practical....meh, I don't know...I'm kinda losing my excitement for hi-fi in general. I have a Beyerdynamic T1 as my main headphone, MF M1HPAp amp and M1DAC, and I don't like the way it sounds. I mean, it sounds good, but is it worth 2000 euros in total? Hell no, because I still spend most of my time listening to Sennheiser HD202, and I'm so happy with it I feel lazy standing up from the chair to take the T1's out of their box...I don't wanna fold that cable all the time...


 

 Nice setup but I see one problem here (I had it too )
  
 MF M1HPA is not very good match for T1 (well, in my opinion, a bad match, actually).
  
 How do I know? I have T90 and M1HPA, and that's how I started listening to T90. While this combo has a clean, airy and transparent sound, it really suffers in low end, sometimes making resulting sound a bit flat and lifeless. Long story short, I don't like it.
  
 So I bought Beyer A1 to drive T90, and given proper interconnects (I use Kimber Hero at this time), it sounds really, really great to me - love it! So If you did not mind trying A1 to improve your great desktop setup, I would highly recommend it. Just make sure to run A1 for a few hundred hours playing your T1 before listening yourself, otherwise you might get a wrong impression (I did, when I first connected it).
  
 Going back to DF and other portables, besides DF, I would then recommend Meridian Explorer (I have it), especially considering your desktop setup. I did use Explorer for quite some time out of line out with Kimber Silver Streak and A1/T90, and it worked great. But then I came back to Arcam rDAC as I like it more in a desktop system.
  
 Also, I would highly recommend changing your amp before considering to replace M1DAC. I am honestly under impression that M1DAC is better than Arcam rDAC that I love immensely (haven't heard M1DAC though but I was considering buying it; I use MF VLINK192 and it would pair nicely).


----------



## earfonia

derbigpr said:


> Just a question...is there any theoretical advantage or disadvantage of using such a small USB powered DAC over a full sized desktop DAC for around the same price...lets say 200-300 dollars entry level offerings? I'm talking about using it strictly as a DAC that would feed an amplifier.


 
  
 Really depend on the earphone or headphone to drive.  But since you're using it as DAC only, this little DAC has built-in headphone amplifier on the output, So DAC --> Headphone Amp --> Output socket.  I'm not sure it would be able to bypass the headphone amp if it is connected to line input instead of headphones.  If not, you better get a dedicated DAC with line output.
  
 Another disadvantage would be the analog cable.  With dragonfly, you're limited with mini jack, cannot use good quality RCA-RCA cables.


----------



## NotAnAngel

earfonia said:


> ...
> 
> Another disadvantage would be the analog cable.  With dragonfly, you're limited with mini jack, cannot use good quality RCA-RCA cables.


 
 You could (Kimber and Cardas would be two examples); they just put them in the "iPod Cable" category - although selection would be rather limited.
  
 Or just use a 3.5mm to RCA adapter, it doesn't seem to introduce any detectable loss.


----------



## RUMAY408

For me the DF is a portable computer DAC. If paired with a small portable amp it is great on the road or in the air. I primarily use it in the office.
  
 It is just not in the same class with desk top DAC's.


----------



## KetchupNinja

Anyone have an E18 to compare?  I'm deciding between the two for the work space.


----------



## Speakerphile

earfonia said:


> Really depend on the earphone or headphone to drive.  But since you're using it as DAC only, this little DAC has built-in headphone amplifier on the output, So DAC --> Headphone Amp --> Output socket.  I'm not sure it would be able to bypass the headphone amp if it is connected to line input instead of headphones.  If not, you better get a dedicated DAC with line output.
> 
> Another disadvantage would be the analog cable.  With dragonfly, you're limited with mini jack, cannot use good quality RCA-RCA cables.


 
 Seems almost too obvious to mention, but AudioQuest makes a full line of mini>RCA cables.  From ~$20-$XXXX.  They also make the same cables in mini>mini, RCA>RCA & mini M>F(extension) among others.  
  
 Pages 6 & 7 have the details.
http://www.audioquest.com/pdfs/AQ_PB_Retail_2014_01.pdf


----------



## ralphp@optonline

ulul said:


> I too would love to know if there's a way in Windows 8 that can double check what version I am testing for a review.  Thanks.
> Also, curious if anyone got a version 1.2 from Audio Advisor for the $99 unit.


 
 Several weeks ago when Audio Advisor first offered what they were calling version 1.1 of the Dragonfly I jumped at the offer and I really liked the way the Dragonfly worked and sounded then when I received the email from Audio Advisor saying that the so called version 1.1 of the Dragonfly was NOT the same as version 1.2 of the Dragonfly but that they would gladly exchange my version 1.1 Dragonfly for a brand new version 1.2 of the Dragonfly for only the price difference of 49.75 and without any shipping charges I again jumped at the offer. Today I received the new version 1.2 of the Dragonfly and it works and sounds great. By the way the box for the version 1.2 Dragonfly has a sticker on it stating that it is a version 1.2 model.
  


whippler said:


> With foobar you can make it automatic, by by passing the windows own audio drivers. Install this component:
> http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_out_wasapi
> in foobar go file -> preferences -> output
> from the device dropdown select WASAPI Event (Dragonfly...)
> ...


 
 Thanks Whippler! I installed the WASAPI component in Foobar and now I get all the various colors on the glowing dragonfly depending on the sample rate of the file being played.
  
 I do have a two part question:
  
 Any recommendation on how big to make the buffer length? And also any recommendation on what bit depth to use?
  
 Thanks in advance!
  


rumay408 said:


> Just a reminder:  Read the thread from the beginning if you want to see $250 (original DF) mistakes, and worse-
> 
> For anyone who buys an old or new DF please use a USB extension, save your computer and DF. USB extensions are cheap (I use a $6 mediabridge) or the Dragontail.


 
 Another thank you to RUMAY408! I ordered the Mediabridge male to female USB extension from Amazon. I always use the least expensive USB cable I can find because I stopped drinking the high end audio kool-aid many years ago.


----------



## Whippler

24bit, since DF  is 24bit dac. as for buffer the default 250 should be fine. Im running it at minimumtough, 50.


----------



## ralphp@optonline

whippler said:


> 24bit, since DF  is 24bit dac. as for buffer the default 250 should be fine. Im running it at minimumtough, 50.


 

 Thanks once again! I had set the bit depth at 24 bit since I have quite a few 24 bit files in my collection and I figured that setting it 16 bit would just truncate the 24 bit file whereas setting it at 24 bit would not "harm" all the 16 bit files. I kind of thought that the buffer size was not all that important.


----------



## derbigpr

Thats exactly how I feel about my setup, its sometimes too lifeless and flat. It does feel like M1HPAP is struggling with the bass at moments with the T1..


----------



## earfonia

notanangel said:


> You could (Kimber and Cardas would be two examples); they just put them in the "iPod Cable" category - although selection would be rather limited.
> 
> Or just use a 3.5mm to RCA adapter, it doesn't seem to introduce any detectable loss.


 
   
 Quote:


speakerphile said:


> Seems almost too obvious to mention, but AudioQuest makes a full line of mini>RCA cables.  From ~$20-$XXXX.  They also make the same cables in mini>mini, RCA>RCA & mini M>F(extension) among others.
> 
> Pages 6 & 7 have the details.
> http://www.audioquest.com/pdfs/AQ_PB_Retail_2014_01.pdf


 
  
  
 Thanks for the link!  Yes I'm aware of that.  I didn't mean there is no good mini jack to RCA out there, I mean, the solution is still limited to mini jack.  If we happen to have very good quality RCA - RCA, we cannot use it with Dragonfly without any adapter.  And compared to the wide selection of RCA cables, mini jack to RCA relatively limited in choices.  But I do agree, there are good mini jack to RCA cables as solution.


----------



## earfonia

derbigpr said:


> I have the MF M1DAC already, but it's to damn big and heavy...it's a mess transporting it around the house, let alone taking it somewhere with me, so I was thinking of something smaller. Meridian Explorer came to my mind, as well as Arcam rDAC and Micromega Mydac (which apparently sounds way better than M1DAC, says everyone who works in the store in my country where both are sold, and it costs half as much). All of them are small deskop DAC's that I could take around, but none have headphone outputs, which could be practical....meh, I don't know...I'm kinda losing my excitement for hi-fi in general. I have a Beyerdynamic T1 as my main headphone, MF M1HPAp amp and M1DAC, and I don't like the way it sounds. I mean, it sounds good, but is it worth 2000 euros in total? Hell no, because I still spend most of my time listening to Sennheiser HD202, and I'm so happy with it I feel lazy standing up from the chair to take the T1's out of their box...I don't wanna fold that cable all the time...


 
  
 I agree with you... many simpler and cheaper setup that are really enjoyable.  Having HD800, T1, DT880, Hifiman HE5-LE, Fidelio X1, Amperior, and many others, perhaps my old Sennheiser HD25 SP is the one that I have most head hour with.  Simply because I always hang it beside my computer, and I don't really care to keep it nicely and dust free in headphone case like my other headphones...
  
 T1 and HD800 are not really easy to pair with.  I don't like them with my Mytek 192-DSD headphone output.  But I do like them a lot with Yulong DA8 headphone output without any additional amplifier.
  
 And I'm gonna cut that T1 cable...


----------



## ULUL

Here is how you check the version your Dragonfly DAC in Windows environment.
  
 Go to Control Panel
 Select Hardware & Sound
 Manage Audio Devices
 Select Dragonfly
 Select Properties 
Select Details
Select Device Description
elect Hardware IDs.  
  
“Value” it will show “REV 010” for v1.0 or “REV 012” for v1.2
  
I have both the version 1.0 and version 1.2 and it shows up as REV010 and REV012 respectively.
  
Hope this helps.


----------



## Don Lehrer

ulul said:


> Here is how you check the version your Dragonfly DAC in Windows environment.
> 
> Go to Control Panel
> Select Hardware & Sound
> ...


 
 Can you comment on the differences within 1.0 and 1.2??


----------



## Cenacheros

I've had the original Dragonfly for more than a year.I've been very happy with it,especially listening through Sennheiser i.e. 80s.I also 
 use it as a dac connected to a NJC Monitor 1 amp and Sennheiser 650s.With this set up I found the sound signature to be slightly cold and metallic,so much for the 650 veil! I would have to use the i-tune equaliser to lessen treble,increase bass,etc.I couldn't listen
 for more than a couple of hours.
 I've had the latest version Dragonfly for a couple of days now,and it's a big step up in SQ. The hard edge has gone.A much fuller,more musical delivery,with even more detail! To my ears,it really is a major improvement.
 I've read comments here about the DF not being true "Audiophile Grade",or words to that effect.I can assure you,with a decent source,and partnered with decent 'phones, and  possibly an amp.,it shines!
 I listen to lossless files ripped from cds onto a Macbook.From day one I've used one of these 
 http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B008BI19N0/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i02?ie=UTF8&psc=1 .It keeps the DF flush with the Macbook and safe from harm.
                                              Kind regards,Cenacheros.


----------



## ULUL

don lehrer said:


> Can you comment on the differences within 1.0 and 1.2??


 
 It is too early as I am a strong believer of breaking even solid state audio equipment in, having heard the A/B difference. 
 I am also a believer of blind testing as the placebo effect is incredibly strong - at least to my ears and I think I'm a pretty objective person.
  
  So one advantage with the Dragonfly is that one can easily do an objective blind test as the two Dragonfly looks identical.  What I did was to mark the bottom of the version 1.2. However, I only look at them from the top with the bottom facing the table.  I then scramble the two dacs until I do not know which is which.  I listened to them intently last night (just got the 1.2 yesterday).   So far, I actually picked the 1.0 as my preferred device to my surprise, though they are very close.  There's just more 'grip' and punch in the lower frequencies.  I was very surprised because I thought the 1.2 sounded better out of the box.  Again, that's the power of suggestion and expectations.  I then double checked in the Windows drivers to make sure I had the correct unit marked - I did. 
  
 My test unit is the excellent ZMF Modified T50RPs.  My HD650 is in the office and I'll get it tomorrow and will report back after a few dozen hours of breaking in the version 1.2.  I do hope it will be noticeably better than the 1.0 after an objective test.  I will also have my sons listen and evaluate as they have very keen ears. 
  
 In short, at this point, I am not hearing much difference if any. 
  
 At this point, I can think of four possibilities: 
  
 1. I have lead ears that are not good enough to tell the difference.  I hope not as I've tested some higher end items and hear a difference.  And lower end too. 
 2. There is very little difference between the 1.0 and 1.2.   If so, the $99 is a great value. 
 3. 1.2 not burned in yet and difference will show after a while. 
 4. My 1.0 which is in the most recent batch is actually a 1.2 but not labelled as such and to tell a difference, one needs a 1.0 from much earlier production cycle. 
  
 Cenacheros, I'd love to have you do the same blind test and let me know if you still hear a significant difference.  I'm not challenging you as I am really just interested in an objective blind test, having no personal ego invested in this nor do I have allegiance to any manufacturer or model. 
  
 ULUL


----------



## money4me247

@ULUL, +1 Blind test FTW!!!!!
  
 (tho I strongly disagree w/ SS equipment requiring break-in, can't argue with a guy who does blind testing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).
  
 this would be kinda hilarious if the $50 pricier 1.2 version sounded worse for you compared to 1.0, but then again great for your wallet


----------



## NotAnAngel

ulul said:


> It is too early as I am a strong believer of breaking even solid state audio equipment in, having heard the A/B difference.


 


money4me247 said:


> (tho I strongly disagree w/ SS equipment requiring break-in, can't argue with a guy who does blind testing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 To *ULUL*'s point, I did experience some burn-in with DF (1.0c); my first listening test resulted in slightly distorted, a bit metallic sound. After running it for about two weeks, this effect was completely gone; sound got very smooth and natural.
  
 The most obvious case of burn-in was with my Graham Slee Novo amp; when new, it sounded very dull and unexciting; after being used (and plugged in 24/7) for about a month, it transformed into one of the best sounding amps in the price range (and much better that many more expensive ones). After I experienced this effect, I started looking and here is what I found:
  
http://audio-forum.gspaudio.co.uk/burnin-revisited_topic547_page1.html


----------



## money4me247

notanangel said:


> To *ULUL*'s point, I did experience some burn-in with DF (1.0c); my first listening test resulted in slightly distorted, a bit metallic sound. After running it for about two weeks, this effect was completely gone; sound got very smooth and natural.
> 
> The most obvious case of burn-in was with my Graham Slee Novo amp; when new, it sounded very dull and unexciting; after being used (and plugged in 24/7) for about a month, it transformed into one of the best sounding amps in the price range (and much better that many more expensive ones). After I experienced this effect, I started looking and here is what I found:
> 
> http://audio-forum.gspaudio.co.uk/burnin-revisited_topic547_page1.html


 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/442436/capacitor-burn-in-how-long-does-it-really-take
  
 the problem w/ ALL burn-in theories is that there is no reason for burn-in/break-in to _improve _the sound. If there is some sort of underlying mechanism that causes a change in the sound, it is equally if not more likely that the sound will degrade in quality rather than improve because the device was tuned prior to burn-in. However, ALL believers of burn-in report a _positive _effect on sound quality. therefore, it makes a lot more sense to assume that the effect is psychological.
  
 edit: esp. in light of the fact that there is NO scientific study out there that definitively shows a change in objective sonic data (that is outside of normal variation or statistical error) large enough for us to hear to prove burn-in for headphones... and there is definitely no study out there about solid state electronics. even for speakers with larger drivers that would hypothetically show the greatest change from mechanical movement, there is still controversy about burn-in.


----------



## NotAnAngel

money4me247 said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/442436/capacitor-burn-in-how-long-does-it-really-take
> 
> the problem w/ ALL burn-in theories is that there is no reason for burn-in/break-in to _improve _the sound. If there is some sort of underlying mechanism that causes a change in the sound, it is equally if not more likely that the sound will degrade in quality rather than improve because the device was tuned prior to burn-in. However, ALL believers of burn-in report a _positive _effect on sound quality. therefore, it makes a lot more sense to assume that the effect is psychological.


 

 Sure, there is a lot of subjective/psychological effects here, but you got it backwards 
  
 If I was the designer and knew that the components I use would inevitably change and stabilize, I would tune my product to sound best on what stage - before burn-in or after? That's why the sound improves - the gear transforms (or burn-ins) into the state it was designed for.
  
 The only thing that I would do with DF though (no matter if I did or did not believe in burn-in) is not to do any critical listening before one month (or at least a few weeks of being plugged-in, powered on 24/7, and ideally running some headphones). But that's just me, and if you think it would be OK to judge it immediately after opening the box, that would be perfectly fine with me


----------



## money4me247

notanangel said:


> Sure, there is a lot of subjective/psychological effects here, but you got it backwards
> 
> If I was the designer and knew that the components I use would inevitably change and stabilize, I would tune my product to sound best on what stage - before burn-in or after? That's why the sound improves - the gear transforms (or burn-ins) into the state it was designed for.
> 
> The only thing that I would do with DF though (no matter if I did or did not believe in burn-in) is not to do any critical listening before one month (or at least a few weeks of being plugged-in, powered on 24/7, and ideally running some headphones). But that's just me, and if you think it would be OK to judge it immediately after opening the box, that would be perfectly fine with me


 
 lol if you were a designer & burn-in was real, then you would have a hell of a time tuning as each model will have a different sound depending on how much its been used. as you tune it, the sound will change lol. most companies R&D departments involve multiple teams of engineers working on multiple sets of headphones... wonder how that can possibly work if burn-in was real. and how would they ever figure out when the headphones "settle into the state it was designed for"? is it at 48hrs or 2 weeks or 3 years? does the mechanical movement forceful enough to causes such a dramatic change in sound quality all of a sudden stops causing sonic changes? and quality control would basically be hell. Not to mention there are already variations between each identical model just due to the manufacturing process, so burn-in will effect each pair of headphones differently. Basically, no two identical headphones would ever sound the same.
  
 lol isn't it funny how burn-in phenomena only occurs with audio products... one of our most subjective senses very easily influenced by external forces. do TVs need burn-in? lol
  
 also, I don't believe it's ideal to judge on on first listen. I think you should give your gear 1-2 weeks before critically judging (but to let your brain adjust to the new sound, not b/c burn-in)


----------



## ULUL

Here is why I believe 'Burn In' is real. 
  
 I tested two identical headphone amps that were well designed.  One was burned in for over a thousand hours. Another was brand new.  The difference was so distinct that I was sure the new unit had different components.  So we pulled the thing apart and looked at every part to make sure that the manufacturer did not change any parts. They were identical. 
  
 Another reason is that burn in is so widely accepted by enough people that I believe it is beyond placebo. 
  
 Regardless, I'll burn the 1.2 in for a few dozen hours and test for three people.  Can't get any more objective than that for three people.
  
 My conjecture is that Dragonfly may have done running improvements in the latest 1.0 versions just as one dealer claimed and then retracted at the request of the the manufacturer, Audioquest. The only way to know is for Audioquest to clarify but this is really not a bit deal. We're not talking life and death or going hungry - just a little DAC....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ULUL


----------



## Speakerphile

money4me247 said:


> lol if you were a designer & burn-in was real, then you would have a hell of a time tuning as each model will have a different sound depending on how much its been used. as you tune it, the sound will change lol. most companies R&D departments involve multiple teams of engineers working on multiple sets of headphones... wonder how that can possibly work if burn-in was real. and how would they ever figure out when the headphones "settle into the state it was designed for"? is it at 48hrs or 2 weeks or 3 years? does the mechanical movement forceful enough to causes such a dramatic change in sound quality all of a sudden stops causing sonic changes? and quality control would basically be hell. Not to mention there are already variations between each identical model just due to the manufacturing process, so burn-in will effect each pair of headphones differently. Basically, no two identical headphones would ever sound the same.
> 
> lol isn't it funny how burn-in phenomena only occurs with audio products... one of our most subjective senses very easily influenced by external forces. do TVs need burn-in? lol
> 
> also, I don't believe it's ideal to judge on on first listen. I think you should give your gear 1-2 weeks before critically judging (but to let your brain adjust to the new sound, not b/c burn-in)


 
 Nobody said that burn-in was continuous.  I think your reasoning here is seriously flawed.  Whether you believe in it or not, you have a weak argument.  
  
 Also, yes, plasma TV's absolutely DO burn-in.  Overall color performance does, in fact, fluctuate considerably within the first 300 or so hours of use.  It can also be objectively measured using a colorimeter.


----------



## money4me247

speakerphile said:


> Nobody said that burn-in was continuous.  I think your reasoning here is seriously flawed.  Whether you believe in it or not, you have a weak argument.
> 
> Also, yes, plasma TV's absolutely DO burn-in.  Overall color performance does, in fact, fluctuate considerably within the first 300 or so hours of use.  It can also be objectively measured using a colorimeter.


 
 LOL!! burn-in for plasma TVs is a negative thing. it's image retention caused by components losing luminescence with use. LCD screens will get dead pixels over time. These are examples of _degrading _quality from continued use. The fact is that it is much more likely for the quality of electronics/mechanical goods to degrade over time rather than improve. A colorimeter is simply for calibrating a screen lol. I would like to see a source for your claim of color performance improving after the first 300 hours of use. 
  
 if you think that lack of scientific evidence for the burn-in phenomena is a weak argument...
  
 The fact is that most listeners cannot distinguish a burnt-in model vs. a new model in direct blind A/B comparison test. And even then, if there was sonic discrepancies between the two models, there are too many confounding variables to isolate the cause to burn-in (eg. inherent variation in the drivers from the manufacturing process & statistical error from a small sample size). Remember correlation does not equate causation? You would need to get objective data on sonic performance of a fresh new model and then then "burn-in" and repeat the measurements. And then, you have to repeat the study with a sample size that gives you a power value of 0.05 so you can have a confidence interval of 95%, and if the mean difference between the variables include zero, you still end up accepting your null hypothesis of no difference. 
  
 If there is burn-in, logically speaking, the effect would have to be continuous. You are stating that the mechanical forces of driver movement causes sonic changes. The mechanical forces will continue to go as you use it. There is no reason for the mechanical forces causing sonic changes to suddenly throw its hands up & say alright, we've achieved the best sound improvement possible, let's stop causing sonic changes.
  
 While you guys are talking about "believing" in burn-in, I am talking about whether burn-in is a real objectively observable and replicable phenomena... aka requiring scientific evidence to prove. The scientific evidence is not currently there, so that is really the end of that debate.
  
 If you want to talk about "believing" in burn-in, (aka a leap of faith without any scientific evidence to back up you)... sure you can believe anything you want to believe. lol


----------



## Speakerphile

money4me247 said:


> LOL!! burn-in for plasma TVs is a negative thing. it's image retention caused by components losing luminescence with use. LCD screens will get dead pixels over time. These are examples of _degrading _quality from continued use. The fact is that it is much more likely for the quality of electronics/mechanical goods to degrade over time rather than improve. A colorimeter is simply for calibrating a screen lol. I would like to see a source for your claim of color performance improving after the first 300 hours of use.
> 
> if you think that lack of scientific evidence for the burn-in phenomena is a weak argument...
> 
> ...


 
 I am not talking about image retention.  I am talking purely about a change in the performance of the panel within the early hours of use.  The term "burn-in" does have another meaning with regard to plasma TV's, but that is not what I am discussing.  That is more accurately described as image retention.  The pixels color performance actually fluctuates and changes up until about 300 hours of use.  You are clearly out of your element here.  Colorimeters measure color output.  Very handy when trying to ascertain varying color output on a television.  Whether or not plasma TV's experience this is not open for debate and is widely accepted fact.   
  
 Also, improvement is subjective.  I think it is reasonable to accept that the performance of electronics can vary in the early hours of use.  I also think it is reasonable that the designers of said products could design them with the expected changes in performance in mind.


----------



## money4me247

@speakerphile, i am curious what your source for those claims are. Strangely, I did not find anything describing any phonemena correlating to your widely known facts.

Improvement is subjective but change is objective and should be easy to prove...

edit: 





> I think it is reasonable to accept that the performance of electronics can vary in the early hours of use.


 ...errr, why? there's nothing magical about electrical components that make them behave in a more variable way than a something like a hammer.


----------



## Don Lehrer

cenacheros said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks Cenacheros, I appreciate your comments, I already got an adapter like that one just to improve my work space a little more (great idea by the way)


ulul said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks ULUL for sharing your thoughts, I think that for $99 is the best offer in order to get something so small and nice sounding, I find quite interesting that to you the1.0 version is better, that makes me happy


----------



## earfonia

ulul said:


> Here is how you check the version your Dragonfly DAC in Windows environment.
> 
> Go to Control Panel
> Select Hardware & Sound
> ...


 
  
 Cool!  Thanks a lot!
  
 Mine showing : USB\VID_21B4&PID_0081&*REV_010C*&MI_00
  
  
 In Linux it showing 1.0c


----------



## Cenacheros

I certainly understand the concept and effect of "burn-in".For the past 30 years I've had Naim equipment as my home listening audio,it takes months of "burn in" to arrive at optimum performance.Every pair of headphones/earphones I have required "burn-in",the sound signature always changing for the better.
                             With the Dragonfly,I had stopped using the v 1.0 with my Senn.650s,simply because I found the sound too shrill.The DF sounded fine with Senn. ie80s,largely because of the olive tips which slightly muffled the sound,the combo worked well.I don't recall the v 1.0 changing at all with "burn-in".The 650s entered into the equation after the ie80s,hence my quest for a better combination.
                             I have been listening constantly with the v 1.2 for the past 2/3 days,using mainly the 650s,but testing the ie80s also.The new version is leaps and bounds ahead of the v 1.0.! It is,as advertised,a great deal smoother,airier,and somehow,reveals previously unheard of details in tracks I've been listening to for years.My test CD has been,Tony Williams Lifetime "Believe It".A lot of "splashy" drumming and fusion guitar.With the v 1.0 it would be verging on painful to listen to,with the v 1.2 it's bliss.Placebo?,I don't think so! 
                            I hope the v 1.2 doesn't "burn-in",or if it does, it improves in some way,although I can't think how it might.The whole deal with audio listening is entirely subjective.I do know that to my ears the v 1.2 sounds fantastic.
                                              Kind regards and Seasons Greetings,Cenacheros.


----------



## Sxooter

ulul said:


> Here is why I believe 'Burn In' is real.
> 
> I tested two identical headphone amps that were well designed.  One was burned in for over a thousand hours. Another was brand new.  The difference was so distinct that I was sure the new unit had different components.  So we pulled the thing apart and looked at every part to make sure that the manufacturer did not change any parts. They were identical.


 
 What is more likely than burn in is either a component that is failing or a large difference, within tolerances, of the components inside the amp. Just a guess though.


----------



## browncow

ulul said:


> Here is how you check the version your Dragonfly DAC in Windows environment.
> 
> Go to Control Panel
> Select Hardware & Sound
> ...


 
 Thank you! That was the trick


----------



## Cenacheros

Hi,Just a quick update on my v1.2.It's still sounding great,no noticeable change in sound yet.Interestingly,two tracks the v1.0 couldn't handle at all,the v1.2 handles with aplomb.Christian Scott's "Litany Against the Fear",and Robert Plant "Monkey",both have a great deal of reverb,are very "busy" tracks,both with a lot going on.With the v1.0 the sound is congested and just a mess.With the v 1.2 everything is separated,the reverb doesn't overpower the entire track,and there is plenty of separation and air.For me this is additional proof of the pudding.
                                       Seasons Greetings to all,Cenacheros.


----------



## imackler

Quick question: I've done a bit of reading and it looks like there is no bypassing the amp of the Dragonfly. Am I right? I like the form and function but I'd rather bypass the internal amp, if possible.


----------



## money4me247

imackler said:


> Quick question: I've done a bit of reading and it looks like there is no bypassing the amp of the Dragonfly. Am I right? I like the form and function but I'd rather bypass the internal amp, if possible.


 
 your answer: http://www.head-fi.org/t/617241/audioquest-dragonfly-review-affordable-outstanding-tiny-dac-amp/450#post_8634634


> yes, it can be used as a DAC-only when needed. if you maximize the volume of the computer and the DF too 100%, then it "knows" to bypass it's AMP section. (Page 3 in user manual)
> "DragonFly is also capable of being employed as a traditional fixed-output source component (such as a CD, DVD or Blu-ray player), and can be connected to a standard input on a receiver or preamplifier. For this application, both the music player’s volume control and the main computer volume control should be set to maximum. This "fixed output mode" allows your audio or AV system’s volume control to be in charge."


----------



## imackler

money4me247 said:


> your answer: http://www.head-fi.org/t/617241/audioquest-dragonfly-review-affordable-outstanding-tiny-dac-amp/450#post_8634634


 
 Splendid! I would have never found that on my own.


----------



## ULUL

Greetings Cenacheros,
  
 May I ask WHEN you purchased your version 1.0?  Mine is the latest version 1.0 and I wonder if there was indeed running changes so that the latest 1.0 is really upgraded over the earlier 1.0.  I've broken my 1.2 with about 25 hours of play but have not had time to A/B blind test yet.  Too much Christmas responsibilities....
  
 Merry Christmas to all on this wonderful forum!
  
 UL
  
 Quote:


cenacheros said:


> Hi,Just a quick update on my v1.2.It's still sounding great,no noticeable change in sound yet.Interestingly,two tracks the v1.0 couldn't handle at all,the v1.2 handles with aplomb.Christian Scott's "Litany Against the Fear",and Robert Plant "Monkey",both have a great deal of reverb,are very "busy" tracks,both with a lot going on.With the v1.0 the sound is congested and just a mess.With the v 1.2 everything is separated,the reverb doesn't overpower the entire track,and there is plenty of separation and air.For me this is additional proof of the pudding.
> Seasons Greetings to all,Cenacheros.


----------



## jeremy205100

Are there different versions of this? How does one tell what version they are buying? Is there a dramatic difference? And what kind of headphones can the built in amp on this drive? Is it a bargain for $100 on Amazon?


----------



## money4me247

jeremy205100 said:


> Are there different versions of this? How does one tell what version they are buying? Is there a dramatic difference? And what kind of headphones can the built in amp on this drive? Is it a bargain for $100 on Amazon?


 
 there is the 1.0 version going for $99. I've heard some people saying they have the 1.1 version, but it's not an official product. the 1.2 version goes for $150.
  
 you will have to do a direct comparison (blinded for better results lol) to find out the difference.
  
 the amp will be fine for most consumer level 16-32ohm impedance sub-$300 headphones. the amp specs I've found are: Output voltage: 2vrms, Minimum driven headphone impedance: 12 ohms, maximum headphone driver output power: 125mW @ 32 ohms. not sure how they will performance with high impedance headphones.
  
 the $99 price is recent, so some view it as a bargain as retail msrp was $250 and the newer version is $150. however, many alternative products (desktop amp/dacs & portable dac/amps) that can be found at the $100 or less price point. examples include the $70ish hifimediy usb 2 dac/amp w/ external power supply vs portable dac/amps like the $70-80 fiios e70k & $100 ibasso d-zero.


----------



## jeremy205100

I'm considering this as a gift for someone who isn't as obsessive with sound. Is the difference between the two worth $50?


----------



## money4me247

jeremy205100 said:


> I'm considering this as a gift for someone who isn't as obsessive with sound. Is the difference between the two worth $50?


 
 is this person obsessed with specs or having the latest&greatest model? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 i haven't done a comparison between the two models, so i can't say (I am personally skeptical that the sound quality improvements of the 1.2 is 50% better than the 1.0 - you'll need someone who did a blind-test direct comparison)


----------



## jeremy205100

If anyone has both and could comment I would appreciate it. The 1.0 version seems like a great gift for $99. I also agree that it's likely not worth it for the upgraded version. 
  
 Clearly they were selling this at quite a premium if the original retail was $249 and now it's $99. 
  
 But this seems like it would go well with IEMs while on the go with a laptop.

 Why did they do v. 1.2 without releasing v. 1.1? Wouldn't it have made more sense just to go with v. 2?


----------



## money4me247

jeremy205100 said:


> If anyone has both and could comment I would appreciate it. The 1.0 version seems like a great gift for $99. I also agree that it's likely not worth it for the upgraded version. Clearly they were selling this at quite a premium if the original retail was $249 and now it's $99. But this seems like it would go well with IEMs while on the go with a laptop. Why did they do v. 1.2 without releasing v. 1.1? Wouldn't it have made more sense just to go with v. 2?


 
 mmm... actually when it first came out, it was kinda viewed as a semi-revolutionary device as you will find that there are a lot of expensive dac/amps out there.
  
 the entry level budget price point for amp/dac devices has been pretty heavily neglected. i think it's probably because the target audiophile audience is not very concerned w/ the price point when investing in this kind of equipment. you have fiio and if you do some major research (like I did), you can find a lot of good alternatives, but you hardly ever hear about any of those options even over here.


----------



## Cenacheros

Hi ULUL,and all,
                         I bought the original DF exactly a year ago from an extremely reputable audio store in Oxford UK.I was very 
  
                         happy with it at the time,especially the small size and big performance.It pairs well with my Senn ie80s,and of course
  
                         is an ideal companion for a Macbook.
  
                         This year I was in the UK and ordered an amp. from a two man set-up in Cornwall called NJC Audio.They make a 
  
                         dac,but I figured the dac in the DF would be fine,at least to begin with.This was all in preparation for buying a pair
  
                         of Senn.650s.I knew the DF would drive them,but I'd also heard plenty of reports about the 650s "scaling up well".
  
                         I reckoned the extra juice would be a good investment.and so it has proven to be.
  
                         The NJC amp,650s and DF 1.0 combo.to begin with,was thrilling.It wasn't long though before I felt something was 
  
                         missing.There was a lack of musicality,tone,depth,it was beginning to bug me.
  
                         By chance,I happened across a very positive review for the DF 1.2,I didn't even know there was one!.I also contacted
  
                         the Audioquest UK rep,a charming guy called Nick Allen.He was very impressed with his latest version DF.It was 
  
                         clear that ,what were collectively seen as shortcomings in the original DF,had now been addressed.
  
                         Having established that the new DF could well be the missing piece of the jigsaw,I needed to buy one.I live in the 
  
                         mountains of Southern Spain,not a big audio scene going on here! Fortunately,Amazon Germany had one left and
  
                         would ship to Spain.It was a calculated leap of faith.I have a teenage son who is constantly plugged into his laptop,
  
                         one way or the other,he was about to get his own DF,either a 1.0 or 1.2.
  
                         I had intended letting the 1.2 burn in for a day or two,impatience got the better of me I'm afraid.It was clear from the 
  
                         first listening,for me the 1.2 was a big step up.Apparently my son's rap music sounds a whole lot better with the 1.0.
  
                         I certainly do not consider myself to be an audiophile, and will always resist becoming obsessive about every last 
  
                         ounce of performance and detail,I feel it would detract from my enjoyment of the music. The rig I have now,with the
  
                         DF 1.2 as a cornerstone of the set up,certainly puts a smile on my face.What more can I say?
  
                                                Merry Christmas/Feliz Navidad to all.


----------



## money4me247

@Cenacheros, i wish i was your son hahaha. would love to hear more detailed impressions/comparison against the 1.0


----------



## j14mp

I bought this for 100 bucks at best buy and I actually returned it. It's too unstable plugged in.


----------



## jeremy205100

What do you mean too unstable?


----------



## Cotnijoe

Ya i was kinda wondering te same thing


----------



## PolkManiac

I'm assuming he's referring to the fact that it wiggles a bit...


----------



## Don Lehrer

cenacheros said:


> Hi ULUL,and all,
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> ...


 
  
 I think that´s what we all want a BIG smile with our perfect rigs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I just got the DF 1.0, sadly I discovered about the new version afterwards, anyhow I like the performance and specially for the price it´s something worth it. I want to use it like a portable solution, an improvement from my laptop and hopefully something that last. 
  
 Merry Christamas to you too / Feliz navidad para ti y tu familia


----------



## Speakerphile

j14mp said:


> I bought this for 100 bucks at best buy and I actually returned it. It's too unstable plugged in.


 
 If you are referring to the physical stability while plugged into your USB port, this is more a function of your USB port than the build of the DF.  You probably won't find another USB DAC, in any price range, that solves for this.  The simple solution would have been for you to purchase the "Dragon Tail", or a similar USB extension cable.


----------



## Cotnijoe

i thought maybe he meant the random popping noises that you sometimes get from the DF


----------



## Speakerphile

cotnijoe said:


> i thought maybe he meant the random popping noises that you sometimes get from the DF


 
 I don't recall this being a common issue.  I have had a 1.0 for some time, and recently a 1.2, and never had this issue.


----------



## Cotnijoe

speakerphile said:


> I don't recall this being a common issue.  I have had a 1.0 for some time, and recently a 1.2, and never had this issue.


 
  
 aw man... now i kinda wanna get a new DF too... haha. its not a common issue for me either and ive heard a few others with it. its just kinda a pain


----------



## ULUL

Actually, I've tested three Dragonflies just because they are available to test.  On my laptop, they have clicking/popping noises on the right USB port. On the left, dead sileng.  However, the venerable Dacport is rock solid on both USB ports.  I've found that the Dacport, for some reason, works perfectly off every single USB port I have ever tried.  Just a datapoint.
  
 UL
  
 Quote:


speakerphile said:


> If you are referring to the physical stability while plugged into your USB port, this is more a function of your USB port than the build of the DF.  You probably won't find another USB DAC, in any price range, that solves for this.  The simple solution would have been for you to purchase the "Dragon Tail", or a similar USB extension cable.


----------



## Speakerphile

ulul said:


> Actually, I've tested three Dragonflies just because they are available to test.  On my laptop, they have clicking/popping noises on the right USB port. On the left, dead sileng.  However, the venerable Dacport is rock solid on both USB ports.  I've found that the Dacport, for some reason, works perfectly off every single USB port I have ever tried.  Just a datapoint.
> 
> UL


 
  
 This would seem to suggest an environmental factor.  (i.e. a problem with your USB port)  Potentially something that only affects certain out-of-spec ports.  Something that may be limited to the driver, I suppose, but that maybe only affects certain computer models.  Out of curiosity, what laptop do you have?  Have tried other USB DAC's based on the ESS Sabre?  Have you tried any of the DF's on other computers?  Have you contacted AQ for support?  Either way, I don't think this is a widespread issue.


----------



## Cenacheros

Hi, I've not had any popping or stability issues with either DF,1.0 or 1.2. To avoid any accidents or snags whilst the DF is in use,I have a right hand USB adapter connected,as I posted earlier.To my mind this is the best solution,it keeps it flush.I think it looks 
 pretty cool also!
                    I wanted to buy a DacPort a couple of years back when I first became interested  in computer audio.I think CEntrance
 were the first people to get the ball rolling with USB powered amp/dacs? Obtaining one here in Spain was pretty much impossible.When I did order one from the UK,they delivered a MicPort,a completely different animal.I lost interest and bought a Nuforce HD direct from Nuforce,which was good,but not the sound I was looking for,plus,too many cables! I've only ever heard good
 things about the DacPort.
                    Anyone who has the DF 1.0 shouldn't feel as though they have an inferior product,especially if they paid $100.
 Most of us paid full whack a year ago!The v1.0 is still an excellent product. To MY ears,and for MY purposes,home listening,the v1.2 is a big step up.
 The whole headphone audio issue is entirely subjective and I would not argue with someone who said their ears told them something very different.
                                                      All the best,Cenacheros


----------



## gidgiddonihah

cotnijoe said:


> aw man... now i kinda wanna get a new DF too... haha. its not a common issue for me either and ive heard a few others with it. its just kinda a pain


 
  
 I had the issue with my DF.  I believe I went through 3 or 4 of them through Audio Adviser before we found one that worked perfectly.  My mom bought my dad one for his birthday and his was flawless out of the box.  Guess I am just very unlucky when it comes to tech .


----------



## Cotnijoe

gidgiddonihah said:


> I had the issue with my DF.  I believe I went through 3 or 4 of them through Audio Adviser before we found one that worked perfectly.  My mom bought my dad one for his birthday and his was flawless out of the box.  Guess I am just very unlucky when it comes to tech .


 
  
 oh dont worry... im on the same boat as u... ive had to return my rendition 1 twice now... seems to happen to me quite often... haha


----------



## Speakerphile

cotnijoe said:


> oh dont worry... im on the same boat as u... ive had to return my rendition 1 twice now... seems to happen to me quite often... haha


 
 Out of curiosity, what OS has everyone been experiencing these problems on?


----------



## Cotnijoe

im on windows 7


----------



## martin vegas

I had the dragonfly for a short time and had popping noises with iTunes windows 7..sounded like a old record!


----------



## money4me247

martin vegas said:


> I had the dragonfly for a short time and had popping noises with iTunes windows 7..sounded like a old record!


 
 check your audio drivers.


----------



## martin vegas

money4me247 said:


> check your audio drivers.


 

 Dragonflys gone back,i got the arcam r dac instead!


----------



## yage

speakerphile said:


> Out of curiosity, what OS has everyone been experiencing these problems on?


 
  
 I had this issue on Linux, though not with all material - it only happened on a DVD-Audio disc as well as downsampled 24/192 AIFF files for me. In this case, I had to move the DragonFly from the USB 1.0 / 2.0 port to the USB 3.0 port on my laptop (Dell Precision M4600). That solved the popping / sync issues.
  
 I'm not sure whether this is a result of the USB driver (EHCI vs. XHCI) in the Linux kernel or something hardware-related. I am on the latest stable kernel, though, which is 3.12.6 as of this post.
  
 I haven't tried to reproduce on Windows 7 - maybe I'll give that a shot and see what happens.


----------



## AyeVeeN

The Note 3 can plug and play the DragonFly v1.0.. now I need some way to hold them both together without bending their connectors .


----------



## tninety

ayeveen said:


> The Note 3 can plug and play the DragonFly v1.0.. now I need some way to hold them both together without bending their connectors .


 
 No need for UARP/UAPP?


----------



## AyeVeeN

tninety said:


> No need for UARP/UAPP?


 
  
 I have no clue what those are but I literally just plugged in the dragonfly to my OTG cable and opened up poweramp and plugged in my headphones to the dragonfly and it fed sound directly. Feeds it well too because on my Note 3, 1 tick is too loud for me but with the DragonFly I can use like ~5 ticks.


----------



## tninety

ayeveen said:


> I have no clue what those are but I literally just plugged in the dragonfly to my OTG cable and opened up poweramp and plugged in my headphones to the dragonfly and it fed sound directly. Feeds it well too because on my Note 3, 1 tick is too loud for me but with the DragonFly I can use like ~5 ticks.


 
 I haven't been able to get the DF to run with any of my Android devices (versus my other DACs) which is one reason I'm currently ebaying it. Glad to hear it works with the Note 3 though.


----------



## PhilW

tninety said:


> I haven't been able to get the DF to run with any of my Android devices (versus my other DACs) which is one reason I'm currently ebaying it. Glad to hear it works with the Note 3 though.




Likely your android version is not high enough. USB audio out has been enabled in kitkat, note 3, nexus etc. Don't worry it will be common for android devices soon.


----------



## tim3320070

ayeveen said:


> The Note 3 can plug and play the DragonFly v1.0.. now I need some way to hold them both together without bending their connectors .


 
 Which Android version please? I have a T-Mobile Note 3 and am considering the DF.


----------



## AyeVeeN

tim3320070 said:


> Which Android version please? I have a T-Mobile Note 3 and am considering the DF.




Verizon's latest, MJE. Android 4.3. Accidentally updated to latest so not sure if it works with previous versions.

Edit: It actually doesn't work consistently for me. I have to re-plug it in a few times to get it to work because other times it's like underpowered or something and there's a lot of static and the vocals go really deep. I'll wait for the v1.2 and then see if it also occurs for that one. Not a huge deal breaker for me because I feel as if the Note's USB port would be easy to break. Sounds much better than the headphone jack though. Using Westone ES3X


----------



## Sxooter

ayeveen said:


> Verizon's latest, MJE. Android 4.3. Accidentally updated to latest so not sure if it works with previous versions.
> 
> Edit: It actually doesn't work consistently for me. I have to re-plug it in a few times to get it to work because other times it's like underpowered or something and there's a lot of static and the vocals go really deep. I'll wait for the v1.2 and then see if it also occurs for that one. Not a huge deal breaker for me because I feel as if the Note's USB port would be easy to break. Sounds much better than the headphone jack though. Using Westone ES3X


 
 That's actually a pretty common problem on tablets where output power on usb is often sub-standard. Using an external powered USB hub is the solution.


----------



## tninety

philw said:


> Likely your android version is not high enough. USB audio out has been enabled in kitkat, note 3, nexus etc. Don't worry it will be common for android devices soon.


 
 USB audio out on the DF still doesn't work where it should on all of my devices that support it (where it works fine with my Concero HD) even when externally powered with either a powered hub or a Y split cable, including my HTC One running 4.4 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It simply has less compatibility with Android than most USB audio devices.


----------



## tim3320070

sxooter said:


> That's actually a pretty common problem on tablets where output power on usb is often sub-standard. Using an external powered USB hub is the solution.


 
 Or get a Dac/Amp with a battery would be my preferred


----------



## tninety

You can also get a USB power splitter cable and an external USB (5V) battery. Works fine with the DF in my experience and you get (probably) cleaner power.


----------



## hobbang

Hi, I'm trying to use the Dragonfly with my headphones, and it seems to work well, but once in a while I get a really loud screeching sound. Also, when I change the volume back and forth rapidly, I start getting a ticking sound, and then get the blue screen of death. The second issue isn't that important as I mostly intend to use the DF as a DAC, but anyone know what might be causing these problems? Thanks.


----------



## PTom

v1.2 has been out for a while now so I was wondering if there is any consensus on its performance vs. the original? I haven't seen many comparisons so far between the two.


----------



## Nirvana1000

I have a question about adding a headphone amplifier to the Audio quest DAC.What type of sound signature will be output from the amp?Will it be the DAC sound amplified?Thanks in advance.


----------



## goldendarko

nirvana1000 said:


> I have a question about adding a headphone amplifier to the Audio quest DAC.What type of sound signature will be output from the amp?Will it be the DAC sound amplified?Thanks in advance.


 

 Well it is an amp as well as a DAC so another Amp is not necessary. If you are looking for something more powerful why not just go with a seperate amplifier, many affordable ones also have DAC's built in, usually better one's too. ALO's Pan Am for example can usually be picked up around $400 here on Head-Fi, or the new ALO Island is also getting some fantastic reviews for $299 and is also highly portable.


----------



## Nirvana1000

goldendarko said:


> Well it is an amp as well as a DAC so another Amp is not necessary. If you are looking for something more powerful why not just go with a seperate amplifier, many affordable ones also have DAC's built in, usually better one's too. ALO's Pan Am for example can usually be picked up around $400 here on Head-Fi, or the new ALO Island is also getting some fantastic reviews for $299 and is also highly portable.


 
 I have considered the ALO Island.I have heard the Pan Am but it didn't sound to my liking(maybe the tubes were not warmed up yet).But it wasn't using the external power supply that's available.I do also like what i have read about the iFi DAC,JD Lab amps,Centrance Dacport,and the MRT micro.I do have the very powerful Fiio E12 and a great ALO Double Mini3 .So I would like a DAC that is very spacious in sound stage but also has solid bass reproduction to mate with my V moda M100s.But is not fatiguing with sharp treble.Also I would like if it could bypass ipods dac and android if possible,but not essential.And it will mostly be used with my PC.


----------



## kenshinhimura

nirvana1000 said:


> I have a question about adding a headphone amplifier to the Audio quest DAC.What type of sound signature will be output from the amp?Will it be the DAC sound amplified?Thanks in advance.


 

 short answer is that it would be the Dac signature, as long as the amp doesnt add its own signature.


----------



## tim3320070

Bit the bullet on a returned V1.0 DF and Re-400 IEM's from Audio Advisor, $176 shipped total to run from my Galaxy Note 3 as a travel rig. Will post impressions.


----------



## Nirvana1000

kenshinhimura said:


> short answer is that it would be the Dac signature, as long as the amp doesnt add its own signature.


 
 Thanks.So the DAC by doing the digital to analogue conversion should hold it's sound sig as long as the connected amp's enhancements like bass boost aren't used.


----------



## headified

My DF 1.2 broke....doing to the stress and added weight on the Jack, it was the Jack itself and not the USB part.
  
 Luckily i got a replacement from the dealer right away, so one big hint, no matter what, get yourself something to lighten the stress either on the USB-Part or the Jack if you are using something like a 6,3to3,5mm Adapter or a heavy 3,5mm plug...
  
  
  
 Right now iam using something like this atm, as i found it in the basement.
 It takes a LOT of stress out of the stick itself, no bending-issues whatsoever, although i think
 that an USB-Extension like the Dragontail would be the better solution as digital-data is way harder to corrupt
 compared to analog-data.
  

 Trust me don't save on an adequate USB or flexable Adapter/Extension, i happened to had a very accomodating dealer.
 Someone else would have sayed, its your fault, and the only thing i would be left with would be a defective 150$ Stick, with the worth of probably a cheese burger.
  
  
 So get yourself a Dragontail or an Adapter like shown above, when using it with heavy-cables(6,3mm especially but not only!).
  
  
  
  
 Have a nice day!


----------



## tim3320070

nirvana1000 said:


> Thanks.So the DAC by doing the digital to analogue conversion should hold it's sound sig as long as the connected amp's enhancements like bass boost aren't used.


 
 Not necessarily true, DAC's can have a bit of a signature as well as the analog part that is the 'A' in DAC. But mostly DAC's sound pretty similar if the spec's are good.


----------



## tim3320070

Got the V1.0 unit, sounds great from my Note 3 phone but volume is pretty lacking and cannot determine how to get it higher. I am at 13-14 out of 15 on my phone and it is just about enough but would need more in noisy environs (with Re-400 and K550). Stock head out output is higher by several notches.
  
 Is there some setting I can do to the DF that increases output to an Android device?


----------



## mrscotchguy

tim3320070 said:


> Got the V1.0 unit, sounds great from my Note 3 phone but volume is pretty lacking and cannot determine how to get it higher. I am at 13-14 out of 15 on my phone and it is just about enough but would need more in noisy environs (with Re-400 and K550). Stock head out output is higher by several notches.
> 
> Is there some setting I can do to the DF that increases output to an Android device?


 
 It's funny that you mention that... I've been trying to figure a way to reduce the volume without loosing quality on my PCs since the volume is _way _too loud for me.  I generally have to listen to the sound between 0 and 10 with most headphones!  Guess you can't please everyone, huh?


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Audio Adviser is having a sale.  $99 Dragonfly!
  
http://www.audioadvisor.com/AudioQuest-Dragonfly-v10-USB-Digital-Audio-Converter/productinfo/AQDRFLY/#.Uskh2PRDt8E


----------



## Speakerphile

gidgiddonihah said:


> Audio Adviser is having a sale.  $99 Dragonfly!
> 
> http://www.audioadvisor.com/AudioQuest-Dragonfly-v10-USB-Digital-Audio-Converter/productinfo/AQDRFLY/#.Uskh2PRDt8E


 
 Deja Vu


----------



## money4me247

gidgiddonihah said:


> Audio Adviser is having a sale.  $99 Dragonfly!
> 
> http://www.audioadvisor.com/AudioQuest-Dragonfly-v10-USB-Digital-Audio-Converter/productinfo/AQDRFLY/#.Uskh2PRDt8E


 
 pretty sure that's the standard price for version 1.0 nowadays. $99 for v1.0. $149 for v1.2


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Oh. Well now I feel stupid . I just got excited and had to post. 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## ULUL

Whoa!  I did not know that the DF can be connected to the Samsung Note 3 Android device.  How did you do it?  Just using a USB cable?
  
 Thanks,
 UL
  
 Quote:


tim3320070 said:


> Got the V1.0 unit, sounds great from my Note 3 phone but volume is pretty lacking and cannot determine how to get it higher. I am at 13-14 out of 15 on my phone and it is just about enough but would need more in noisy environs (with Re-400 and K550). Stock head out output is higher by several notches.
> 
> Is there some setting I can do to the DF that increases output to an Android device?


----------



## tim3320070

ulul said:


>


 
 You need an OTG USB cable


----------



## ULUL

THANKS.  And for your Note 3, is it simply plug and play and all audio now goes through the DF?  Or do you have to use specialized software and drivers. 
  
 I have the Note 2 and figure I'll check and see how it works with Note 3 before trying with my Note 2. 
  
 THANKS!
 UL
  
 Quote:


tim3320070 said:


> You need an OTG USB cable


----------



## tim3320070

Just plug and play.

Something to note- from my Note 3, the output volume is not great- I am near max at normal (for me) listening levels. Might be plenty for others, not sure. I have a call into Audioquest about this. The volume should be ear splitting if needed.


----------



## Cenacheros

Hi again,
              Well,I've given the v1.2 a thorough workout over close to 3 weeks now.It gets better and better,absolutely no contest between
  
              this and the v1.0!! I'm hearing details on tracks I've known for years that  simply weren't there before.Everything 
  
             from the Stones,Beatles,Doobies,etc.,through to free jazz ,World music,it all sounds a lot fuller,and simply more musical! I 
  
            really don't  know how I could improve the sound without spending a crazy amount of cash.Even then,I'm sure the audio adage  
  
             of diminishing returns would very much come into play! Happy New Year,Cenacheros.


----------



## Cotnijoe

cenacheros said:


> Hi again,
> Well,I've given the v1.2 a thorough workout over close to 3 weeks now.It gets better and better,absolutely no contest between
> 
> this and the v1.0!! I'm hearing details on tracks I've known for years that  simply weren't there before.Everything
> ...




Hmm... Maybe its time for an upgrade to 1.2 then haha. More money going out


----------



## kurt_fire

Hey guys, just received my Dragonfly from Music Direct for $99. I have some setup questions.
  
 I use Windows 8 and Foobar2000 for mostly FLAC playback. Most of my albums are 44100.0 Hz but I also have a decent amount of 96000.0 Hz albums. Is the recommended setup the following:
  
 - download and install the WASAPI Foobar2000 component
 - control panel ---> sound ----> set Audioquest Dragonfly as the default source
 - control panel ---> sample rate *(WHICH SHOULD I CHOOSE? 96000.0 Hz because I have some albums in this format?)*
*- *Foobar2000 ----> File ---> Preferences ---> Output ---->* (I'm not sure what to do here), should I change "Device" to WASAPI (event): Speakers (AudioQuest Dragonfly)?? Also, under "Output format" which setting should I choose? 24-bit??*
  
  
 Also, what is the recommended way to change the volume of playback? I have 3 options, the Windows volume control, Foobar2000 volume control, and my Audioengine A5+ speaker volume knob. Two more stupid questions....there won't be any difference if I use a 3.5 mm to 3.5 mm audio cable opposed to a 3.5 mm to RCA cable will there? The A5+s have both 3.5 mm and RCA inputs. Why do the Dragonfly directions say to turn off Windows sound effects? I'd rather leave these ON if it's possible without degrading FLAC playback.


----------



## Speakerphile

kurt_fire said:


> Hey guys, just received my Dragonfly from Music Direct for $99. I have some setup questions.
> 
> I use Windows 8 and Foobar2000 for mostly FLAC playback. Most of my albums are 44100.0 Hz but I also have a decent amount of 96000.0 Hz albums. Is the recommended setup the following:
> 
> ...


 
 Changing to WASAPI allows FooBar2000 to output at whichever rate the track is.  This is how it should be set up.


----------



## kurt_fire

Because I'm using WASAPI with Foobar2000, it makes no difference if I turn ON or OFF Windows default sounds? It also does not matter how I setup any of the Windows Sounds settings?


----------



## AyeVeeN

Is it normal to hear a very high pitched screeching sound when receiving a call when a DAC is connected? Through the headphones of course. Due to how sensitive my ES3X's are, it's basically deafening. I don't want to use airplane mode because I listen to music like half the day.


----------



## money4me247

kurt_fire said:


> Also, what is the recommended way to change the volume of playback? I have 3 options, the Windows volume control, Foobar2000 volume control, and my Audioengine A5+ speaker volume knob. Two more stupid questions....there won't be any difference if I use a 3.5 mm to 3.5 mm audio cable opposed to a 3.5 mm to RCA cable will there? The A5+s have both 3.5 mm and RCA inputs. Why do the Dragonfly directions say to turn off Windows sound effects? I'd rather leave these ON if it's possible without degrading FLAC playback.


 
 From what I've read, it is usually best to control volume from the last component in your chain & have everything else maxed out (or maxed to the point before distortion). so for you windows & foobar will be maxed, and the speaker volume knob is what you control the volume with. Another common recommendation is to have your source at 70-80% and control with the last component of your chain. The second recommendation is for if you notice distortion with your sources maxed.
  
 You should disable Windows sound effects because they can definitely cause audio distortion. Actually, most "audio enhancement settings" actually do more harm than good from my personal experience with more high-end headphones as they seem to introduce distortion. You should switch it off, but if you do not notice anything, then I guess it doesn't matter. EQ changes is really the only software adjustment that I am personally comfortable with.


----------



## AyeVeeN

First impressions of v1.0 vs v1.2 using ES3X:
  
 v1.0 just sounds better overall. Fuller, more detailed, can handle complicated parts better (i.e. high string orchestra + high female vocals + some other auxiliary treble all at once), and soundstage / imaging is more realistic. I'll post again on the weekend for HE-400s w/ Alpha Pads and possibly after burn-in (if DACs / amps do burn-in. Personally I'm not much of a believer).


----------



## x838nwy

ayeveen said:


> First impressions of v1.0 vs v1.2 using ES3X:
> 
> v1.0 just sounds better overall. Fuller, more detailed, can handle complicated parts better (i.e. high string orchestra + high female vocals + some other auxiliary treble all at once), and soundstage / imaging is more realistic. I'll post again on the weekend for HE-400s w/ Alpha Pads and possibly after burn-in (if DACs / amps do burn-in. Personally I'm not much of a believer).




Interesting. This is the first I've read that says the 1.0 is preferred. In my experience, the df didn't change noticeably with use. Looking forward to your findings, thank you.


----------



## goldendarko

Yeah I thought the general consensus was that the 1.2 was better in terms of sound quality & build qualitity, would be curious to hear more thoughts from anyone who has compared the two.


----------



## money4me247

ayeveen said:


> First impressions of v1.0 vs v1.2 using ES3X:
> 
> v1.0 just sounds better overall. Fuller, more detailed, can handle complicated parts better (i.e. high string orchestra + high female vocals + some other auxiliary treble all at once), and soundstage / imaging is more realistic. I'll post again on the weekend for HE-400s w/ Alpha Pads and possibly after burn-in (if DACs / amps do burn-in. Personally I'm not much of a believer).


 
 lol! interesting


----------



## ULUL

ayeveen said:


> First impressions of v1.0 vs v1.2 using ES3X:
> 
> v1.0 just sounds better overall. Fuller, more detailed, can handle complicated parts better (i.e. high string orchestra + high female vocals + some other auxiliary treble all at once), and soundstage / imaging is more realistic. I'll post again on the weekend for HE-400s w/ Alpha Pads and possibly after burn-in (if DACs / amps do burn-in. Personally I'm not much of a believer).


 
 Have not had time to post my findings but I had access to three v1.0 and one v1.2 .All four were different and we (two people indepnedently) could identify all four in a blind test. 
  
 Turns out we ranked them like this from high to low.  Two people, in a pure blind test, no communication between the two person, came to the exact same ranking and description of the sound. I used three headphones (Sennheiser HD650, Fostex ZMF T50rp, and Klipsch x10) while the other person used just his own Klipsch x10.  I found the disctinction to be reproducible regardless of which headphone I used.  #1 and # were very different, but both are close in terms of preference. #1 had more grip, control, detail, bass. But #2 had the widest soundstage of all four by a clear margin.  Odd....
  
 1. v1.0
 2. v1.0
 3. v1.2
 4. v1.0.
  
 All were currently units. My guess is that you also got your v1.0 recently?  My guess that they quietly made running improvements without telling the public so that old v1.0 is not as good but the newer ones are like v1.2. 
  
 What really surprised us was the variability, one unit to the next. 
  
 ULUL


----------



## money4me247

ulul said:


> What really surprised us was the variability, one unit to the next.


 
 I'm not surprised about that. there can easily be manufacturing variation within the normal range that can account for some of the differing opinions that people have about the same products.


----------



## ULUL

money4me247 said:


> I'm not surprised about that. there can easily be manufacturing variation within the normal range that can account for some of the differing opinions that people have about the same products.


 
 I agree.  But that was surprising is the DEGREE and RANGE of the variation.  I would think that this being a solid state device, that among four devices, there would be some that are very very similar and virtually indiscernible.  This was not the case. The difference between 1 and 4 was huge.  
  
 SO, this explains to me in my mind why reviews on the DF can vary widely. Some say it is incredible, and others say it is not as wonderful. Of course, taste matters too but the variability can explain some of the varying comments. 
  
 UL


----------



## mrscotchguy

ulul said:


> Have not had time to post my findings but I had access to three v1.0 and one v1.2 .All four were different and we (two people indepnedently) could identify all four in a blind test.
> 
> Turns out we ranked them like this from high to low.  Two people, in a pure blind test, no communication between the two person, came to the exact same ranking and description of the sound. I used three headphones (Sennheiser HD650, Fostex ZMF T50rp, and Klipsch x10) while the other person used just his own Klipsch x10.  I found the disctinction to be reproducible regardless of which headphone I used.  #1 and # were very different, but both are close in terms of preference. #1 had more grip, control, detail, bass. But #2 had the widest soundstage of all four by a clear margin.  Odd....
> 
> ...




It's hard to believe you heard such distinct difference, but e only reason I purchased the DF originally was how awesome it sounded with my HD800. Mine seems pretty disappointing in comparison with my HD800s (though still good).

Good to know I'm not the only one...


----------



## AyeVeeN

ulul said:


> All were currently units. My guess is that you also got your v1.0 recently?  My guess that they quietly made running improvements without telling the public so that old v1.0 is not as good but the newer ones are like v1.2.


 
  
 Yes I did; about two weeks ago from BestBuy (last in stock and I'm not sure how many people actually purchase these there because it's BestBuy). Testing now (though I don't have that golden ear. Takes me awhile to discern minute differences. I believe in large part due to blasting my music and therefore damaging my high frequency hearing and giving myself tinnitus ). I wish I had a 3.5mm female to (2) 3.5mm male cable. Would make A/B'ing much quicker.
  
 Edit: I think I actually prefer the v1.2 now. Might've been placebo before, might be placebo now. Defining point (and what I really notice) for me was listening to Eminem - Stronger Than I Was. At ~4:36 after the rap verse, the v1.0 sounded raspy and realistic. Basically less definition / imaging of the person behind the vocals when compared to v1.2.
  
 Edit2: Another test was Andrew Bayer - Keep Your Secrets. Yeah the v1.2 sounds slightly better to me now. Imaging / soundstage is better as is detail. Ex) pingpong effect is more prominent with the v1.2 at about 1:57. Vocals are easier to picture as are the instruments though I think the one thing the v1.0s do better are details placed at the extremities of the left/right pan. Not sure how to explain it exactly.


----------



## IdiotRhino

So, my question is this: If I can get the v1.0 for $50 or the v1.2 for $100, which should I go for? Taking into consideration the price/quality ratio, would it be worth the extra $50 to go on ahead and get the v1.2? 
  
 As a side note/question, would it be better for me to get the Fiio E17 Alpen for $80 as compared to the model of choice based on my first question?


----------



## x838nwy

idiotrhino said:


> So, my question is this: If I can get the v1.0 for $50 or the v1.2 for $100, which should I go for? Taking into consideration the price/quality ratio, would it be worth the extra $50 to go on ahead and get the v1.2?
> 
> As a side note/question, would it be better for me to get the Fiio E17 Alpen for $80 as compared to the model of choice based on my first question?


 
  
 For those prices and considering the alleged variation between them, get two of each, keep the one you like most and sell the remaining at cost on e-bay.


----------



## IdiotRhino

x838nwy said:


> For those prices and considering the alleged variation between them, get two of each, keep the one you like most and sell the remaining at cost on e-bay.


 
  
 Believe me, I would love to do that. Unfortunately, right now I can't quite make that happen financially. So if one were a betting man, what would you go with?


----------



## x838nwy

idiotrhino said:


> Believe me, I would love to do that. Unfortunately, right now I can't quite make that happen financially. So if one were a betting man, what would you go with?


 
  






 Okay, it I were you:
  
 The only reason to get the 1.0 is if you think
 a.) you might be lucky and get one of the 'better' samples - if they, in fact, exist.
 b.) the 1.2 is not an improvement on the 1.0. At least not $50 worth.
  
 But If you get the 1.0 you will
 c.) always wonder if your is one of the 'better' ones you hoped for.
 d.) always wonder what the 1.2 sounds like.
 e.) any opportunity you have to hear (c.) or (d.) you'd never be quite sure of the answer
  
 However, get the 1.2 if you think
 f.) that AQ probably wouldn't go through all this hassle if there's actually no difference. If they had wanted to do that, I think they'd just put it in a new case or something.
 g.) that one day you might sell it on ebay - to nearly 99% of the population, 1.2 is instantly better than 1.0 hence better re-sale.
  
 Now, 1.2 owners will suffer from
 h.) does the 1.0 actually sound better? - when such feelings take hold, a review on audio stream will make you feel a whole lot better, regardless of whether or not it's true 
  
 At the end of the day, at those prices I don't think you can go wrong. I don't know how you're set up for headphones and obviously how all this means to you financially (not saying you're poor or whatever, I just don't know your priorities) it may well be worth just getting the 1.0 and spending the 50 you save on better cans or something...
  
 All this has one huge caveat - if you're thinking of going DSD in the future, then only invest in the 1.0 obviously...


----------



## IdiotRhino

x838nwy said:


> At the end of the day, at those prices I don't think you can go wrong. I don't know how you're set up for headphones and obviously how all this means to you financially (not saying you're poor or whatever, I just don't know your priorities) it may well be worth just getting the 1.0 and spending the 50 you save on better cans or something...
> 
> All this has one huge caveat - if you're thinking of going DSD in the future, then only invest in the 1.0 obviously...


 
  
  
 Perfect answer. I currently have Superlux HD 681, Sony MDR-7506, Audio-Technica AD700, and Audio-Technica ATH-M50 headphones, so my next step is to buy a $400+ headphone. But that wont be happening any time soon, so I figured I would get the best out of what I have. I have a Fiio E11 for portable amplification, but I was wanting a DAC for when I sit down at my computer. Your answer has significantly helped me choose! 
  
 And I guess you are saying the Fiio E17 is out of the picture?


----------



## Speakerphile

ulul said:


> Have not had time to post my findings but I had access to three v1.0 and one v1.2 .All four were different and we (two people indepnedently) could identify all four in a blind test.
> 
> Turns out we ranked them like this from high to low.  Two people, in a pure blind test, no communication between the two person, came to the exact same ranking and description of the sound. I used three headphones (Sennheiser HD650, Fostex ZMF T50rp, and Klipsch x10) while the other person used just his own Klipsch x10.  I found the disctinction to be reproducible regardless of which headphone I used.  #1 and # were very different, but both are close in terms of preference. #1 had more grip, control, detail, bass. But #2 had the widest soundstage of all four by a clear margin.  Odd....
> 
> ...


 
  
 Were these all using the same computer, USB port, software etc?


----------



## ULUL

Yes.  I tested using 1 computer, 1 USB port, completely blind testing, 3 headphones/iems.  
  
 My son, who is an excellent musician with very good ear tested on his one computer, 1 usb port, one iem. 
  
 Independently, we came to the exact same conclusion in both the tonal description and ranking of preference. Statistically, there can be some random chance for that to happen but it is very low, especially as we could each identify which of the four units we were using when doing A/B blind comparisons. 
  
 I am thinking doing a more complete post on a new thread, with the focus not on the DF, but on the variability of even solid state audio equipment, at least on the low end. 
  
 Hope this helps.
 UL
  
  
 Quote:


speakerphile said:


> Were these all using the same computer, USB port, software etc?


----------



## Sxooter

I would be very interested in such a post. esp for a few of the more common low end components (FiiO, NuForce) coming in at $150 or less.


----------



## gofvonx

Hi,
  
 I consider purchasing the AudioQuest Dragonfly v1.2 as a DAC/Amp for a notebook. It will be used in connection with the Beyerdynamic DT1350. Right now I am mainly listening to music via my Desktop PC which has the Asus Xonar STX as soundcard. I am quite satisfied with the overall experience and therefore would like to know if there are better alternatives for my specific setup in the sub 200-Euro price range and wether I should spend more on a portable DAC/Amp combo to get a comparable sound quality.
  
 Thank you!


----------



## Iostream

I just picked up a dragonfly 1.2 + jriver to replace my squeezebox. Generally speaking, I am impressed.It doesn't have the warmth of my Peachtree decco, but the decco always felt like artificial warmth to me. This is a good thing for longer listening sessions, but it is most certainly something added to the music. Using my tracks, the dragonfly sounds much closer to the music I originally mixed and mastered.   It is a good match.  It compares well with the Bifrost, but mine doesn't have USB and I needed an interface that wouldn't interfere with my audio interface for creating music.


----------



## deadkenny64

I just got my v1.0 Dragonfly and it is impressive for the $99 price.  I was hoping to replace my DACport (1 Ohm mod) as it is a little cumbersome with my laptop and not quite as portable. With my UM Miracles it is very close with a slightly colder/more analytical tone in the vocal range and a little more mid bass than the DacPort.  Not as black of a background as I can hear some hiss with the volume over 60% although that is well above normal listening levels of 20-30%.  I can max the volume on the DACport with no hiss.
  
 With the T50RP (heavily modded) it is no contest.  I had to max out Windows volume to get good output and even then felt as if I could use more juice. Bass slam was lacking and vocals seemed even colder than on the Miracles.  I believe the DACport puts out more voltage at 3.0 Vrms where Dragonfly is 2.0 Vrms.  This is from Sterophile's review, CEntrance page shows lower.  I was hoping the Dragonfly would have faired a little better with the Fostex.  
  
 Looks like I'll keep both and make the Dragonfly my travelling/work DAC paired with my Etymotics HF3s.  Beats my work computer headphone out by a mile.


----------



## Skytool

I just got a dragonfly from amazon for $99 too, I feel it is very good to drive my new HD598.  Sound is awesome right out of box.
 source is mac mini with Audirvana plus.
 for $99, it is really a steal..
 love the combo!


----------



## ULUL

You listen at much higher volumes than I.  On the Dacport, at most I have the knob at 50%. Usually at 33%.  So the Dragonfly works fine with my HD650 and modded T50RP.
  
 However, I also agree that the Dacport is better than all the DF I've tried regardless of version. In part, it also has a substantially wider soundstage.  I was hoping DF will replace the Dacport but not quite....but it is nice.   That said, the DF does sound better with some desktop speakers I have because of its more centered soundstage and functioning as a DAC. 
  
 UL
  
  
 Quote:


deadkenny64 said:


> I just got my v1.0 Dragonfly and it is impressive for the $99 price.  I was hoping to replace my DACport (1 Ohm mod) as it is a little cumbersome with my laptop and not quite as portable. With my UM Miracles it is very close with a slightly colder/more analytical tone in the vocal range and a little more mid bass than the DacPort.  Not as black of a background as I can hear some hiss with the volume over 60% although that is well above normal listening levels of 20-30%.  I can max the volume on the DACport with no hiss.
> 
> With the T50RP (heavily modded) it is no contest.  I had to max out Windows volume to get good output and even then felt as if I could use more juice. Bass slam was lacking and vocals seemed even colder than on the Miracles.  I believe the DACport puts out more voltage at 3.0 Vrms where Dragonfly is 2.0 Vrms.  This is from Sterophile's review, CEntrance page shows lower.  I was hoping the Dragonfly would have faired a little better with the Fostex.
> 
> Looks like I'll keep both and make the Dragonfly my travelling/work DAC paired with my Etymotics HF3s.  Beats my work computer headphone out by a mile.


----------



## nicdub

Just got the v1.2 in the mail this afternoon and have been trying it out with a variety of headphones, including the LCD-2 and HE-500.  I am amazed at the quality of sound, despite the fact that these headphones need at least a 1 watt of power to shine, according to Audeze and Fang, and the many forum posts.  While I will be doing comparisons of the DF with the Magni/Modi and Vali/Modi, as well as combining the DF with the Magni/Vali, I am pretty sure that I could live with just the DF if I had to.


----------



## alias71

ulul said:


> Have not had time to post my findings but I had access to three v1.0 and one v1.2 .All four were different and we (two people indepnedently) could identify all four in a blind test.
> 
> Turns out we ranked them like this from high to low.  Two people, in a pure blind test, no communication between the two person, came to the exact same ranking and description of the sound. I used three headphones (Sennheiser HD650, Fostex ZMF T50rp, and Klipsch x10) while the other person used just his own Klipsch x10.  I found the disctinction to be reproducible regardless of which headphone I used.  #1 and # were very different, but both are close in terms of preference. #1 had more grip, control, detail, bass. But #2 had the widest soundstage of all four by a clear margin.  Odd....
> 
> ...


 
 I am very intrigued about your results and the fact two v1.0s got the highest ranking. You mentioned all the units are current. Can you be a little more specific? I have a v1.0 I  bought in April 2013...
  
 Thanks!


----------



## ULUL

All v1.0 was provided in December 2013.  Two were sent to me in error and the sender was kind enough to allow me to test.  One I purchased. 
  
 UL
  
 Quote:


alias71 said:


> I am very intrigued about your results and the fact two v1.0s got the highest ranking. You mentioned all the units are current. Can you be a little more specific? I have a v1.0 I  bought in April 2013...
> 
> Thanks!


----------



## pdrm360

The DragonFly is damn good for the HD650!


----------



## PTom

pdrm360 said:


> The DragonFly is damn good for the HD650!


 
  
  
 Really? I thought they were supposed to be a bad combination. How does the DF compare to your Schiit stack?


----------



## PTom

I currently own the Dragonfly. I was wondering which dedicated desktop DAC would be a step up from the Dragonfly in terms of sound quality? Budget is below $300. Is the ODAC better?


----------



## pdrm360

ptom said:


> Really? I thought they were supposed to be a bad combination. How does the DF compare to your Schiit stack?


 
  
 Yes really, it doesn't have enough juice but pairs well with the HD650. The $100 DF does 80% job of the $1000 Schiit stack for the HD650.


----------



## orb2k

ptom said:


> I currently own the Dragonfly. I was wondering which dedicated desktop DAC would be a step up from the Dragonfly in terms of sound quality? Budget is below $300. Is the ODAC better?


 
  
 I was thinking of an ALO Island for a budget desktop setup. The Asus STN is too expensive. 
  
 I find the DF DAC portion is great but amping is just so much better.


----------



## SaddleSC

I just received my v1.0 Dragonfly from Amazon and I am very impressed with it so far on my MacBook Air. I have tested it with both my Grado sr225i and also my DT880s. I always held off on buying the DF because I could never quite get myself to pull the trigger at $250, but at $99, it is a no-brainer.


----------



## ralphp@optonline

saddlesc said:


> I just received my v1.0 Dragonfly from Amazon and I am very impressed with it so far on my MacBook Air. I have tested it with both my Grado sr225i and also my DT880s. I always held off on buying the DF because I could never quite get myself to pull the trigger at $250, but at $99, it is a no-brainer.


 

 +1 plus the v1.2 Dragon at the new $150 list price is also a no-brainer.


----------



## pdrm360

ulul said:


> You listen at much higher volumes than I.  On the Dacport, at most I have the knob at 50%. Usually at 33%.  So *the Dragonfly works fine with my HD650 and modded T50RP*.


 
  
 Not quite good for the Alpha Dog, but I like the DF synergy with the HD650.


----------



## MickeyVee

+1 .. sold my v1.0 for $90 and got the v1.2 for $143.  Great product either way. If you want a little more aggressive sound, get the 1.0 and if you want something a little smoother, get the 1.2.  We have choice as long as the 1.0 is still around. 
  
 Quote:


ralphp@optonline said:


> +1 plus the v1.2 Dragon at the new $150 list price is also a no-brainer.


----------



## pdrm360

mickeyvee said:


>


 
  
 Do you mean the v1.2 has more tubey sound?


----------



## MickeyVee

No.. just smoother on top while retaining the ability to deliver detail. After owning 3 tube amps, I still don't get what _tubey_ means
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Think Grado SR/RS series versus HD800, edgy with detail versus smooth with detail.
_The comparison may be a little exaggerated but you get the picture._


----------



## money4me247

is there really that significant difference between the 1.0 vs 1.2? i've heard a variety of opinions... i am really only interested in people's impressions who owned both & were able to compare em in a "blinded" test. hahah


----------



## MickeyVee

Good luck with that.. don't have them both together now.. For me, I found the 1.0 bright and my new 1.2 is definitely smoother and less harsh. You can always find an AQ dealer, see if they have both around and then audition. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I actually wish I didn't sell the 1.0.  It sounded better with my Momentums.


----------



## pdrm360

^^ So I guess the v1.0 pairs better with the HD650.


----------



## MickeyVee

Haven't heard the 1.0 with the HD650 but based on my experience with the Momentum, I woud guess at yes.  Alway recommend audutioning for yourself wherever possible or pruchase from a place that has a good return policy.


----------



## zeddun

Nice write up by Jude as always!  I've never listened to the Dragonfly but heard good things about version 1.2.  I did demo the the Audioengine D3 and it sounded fantastic plugged into my Macbook Pro playing ALAC and paired with Fostex TH600s.


----------



## jzj24

New here and wondering whether Dragonfly 1.2 will be useful to me. I have Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 speakers attached to a MacPro. The speakers have a headphone jack. For the sake of convenience, I have been plugging my Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80 Ohm headphones into them rather than into the Mac. 
  
 I'm intrigued by the possibilities of adding the Dragonfly DAC into this system. If I connect the speakers to the Dragonfly 1.2 and then the headphones to the speakers, it has the potential to impact the sound of both, but at what cost? Will having the speakers in between the Dragonfly and the headphones reduce the effectiveness of this DAC? Would it be better to use the Dragonfly directly with my headphones only?


----------



## AudioNoob

If someone wants to try the dragongly 1.2 but doesn't want to keep it, I'll take it off your hands for a minor discount


----------



## money4me247

audionoob said:


> If someone wants to try the dragongly 1.2 but doesn't want to keep it, I'll take it off your hands for a minor discount


 
 hahaha... as opposed of them returning it for full price (maybe minus a few dollars shipping)?


----------



## AudioNoob

money4me247 said:


> hahaha... as opposed of them returning it for full price (maybe minus a few dollars shipping)?


 
 Obvioulsy meant cases of no-return. Anyhow, I don't want to hijack the thread, keep it going, I'll join it shortly


----------



## money4me247

hey! here is an interesting comparison of 6 dacs with the audioquest dragonfly faring quite well for those who are interested in reading other people's subjective comparisons 
  
 http://news.idg.no/cw/art.cfm?id=E36CAD56-BB4F-16F0-31F970ACD60DF726


----------



## Rob49

Forgive my ignorance guys, I've never owned any kind of DAC before, am I right in assuming that this device can only be used with laptops / pc's ?
  
 I bought a Sony Hi Res Walkman F886 a few months back & was looking for a small portable DAC that I could pair with it ?
  
 Any suggestions, much appreciated.


----------



## x838nwy

rob49 said:


> Forgive my ignorance guys, I've never owned any kind of DAC before, am I right in assuming that this device can only be used with laptops / pc's ?
> 
> I bought a Sony Hi Res Walkman F886 a few months back & was looking for a small portable DAC that I could pair with it ?
> 
> Any suggestions, much appreciated.




Best to think of the df as a sound card so it won't suit your needs. There are dacs that work with daps or walkman's (walkmEn?) but i'm not familiar with sony's.


----------



## Rob49

x838nwy said:


> Best to think of the df as a sound card so it won't suit your needs. There are dacs that work with daps or walkman's (walkmEn?) but i'm not familiar with sony's.


 

 Thank you for your reply.


----------



## nicdub

anyone tried the dragonfly with the cardas em5813's?


----------



## Cotnijoe

x838nwy said:


> rob49 said:
> 
> 
> > Forgive my ignorance guys, I've never owned any kind of DAC before, am I right in assuming that this device can only be used with laptops / pc's ?
> ...




Dont know about walkman, but a lot of android devices and the new iphone 5 can now use the dragonfly as a dac and amp if you get a female usb cable


----------



## Rob49

cotnijoe said:


> Dont know about walkman, but a lot of android devices and the new iphone 5 can now use the dragonfly as a dac and amp if you get a female usb cable


 

 Thank you for the feedback.


----------



## tim3320070

It sounds good with my Note 3 phone but the volume may not be enough for some people or hard to drive headphones (it's the phone output, not the power of the DF- it's loud as hell from my laptop)


----------



## guerillaw

ptom said:


> I currently own the Dragonfly. I was wondering which dedicated desktop DAC would be a step up from the Dragonfly in terms of sound quality? Budget is below $300. Is the ODAC better?


 
  
 Not sure about which would sound better to you, but be aware that at this level of quality differences are going to be minor; if they exist. Also, you'll be losing the portability of the DragonFly. If you have 300 to spend, consider getting a pair of sealed cans for pairing with the dragonfly instead. That way you can have a rig to take to a coffee shop or wherever else your laptop goes but still have a quality DAC for use at home.


----------



## ralphp@optonline

rob49 said:


> Forgive my ignorance guys, I've never owned any kind of DAC before, am I right in assuming that this device can only be used with laptops / pc's ?
> 
> I bought a Sony Hi Res Walkman F886 a few months back & was looking for a small portable DAC that I could pair with it ?
> 
> Any suggestions, much appreciated.







cotnijoe said:


> Dont know about walkman, but a lot of android devices and the new iphone 5 can now use the dragonfly as a dac and amp if you get a female usb cable




The dragon fly requires 5 volts of power to work properly. 5 volts being the power output of a USB port. The dragon fly will work with an ipad provided that you hook it up through a powered USB hub. So here's a question to all those diy types out there: what about making some sort of combination 5 volt power supply and USB cable which could then be used with the DF and iPhones, iPads and other devices which do not have powered USB ports. As a bonus make the power supply rechargeable via a powered USB port. Any takers?


----------



## tim3320070

guerillaw said:


> Not sure about which would sound better to you, but be aware that at this level of quality differences are going to be minor; if they exist. Also, you'll be losing the portability of the DragonFly. If you have 300 to spend, consider getting a pair of sealed cans for pairing with the dragonfly instead. That way you can have a rig to take to a coffee shop or wherever else your laptop goes but still have a quality DAC for use at home.


 
 Sound advise (pun intended)


----------



## Travelbug

new to the thread, but i back read a bit and the general consensus seems to be that the 1.0 is better than 1.2. but can someone list what changes/features were actually added to the 1.2?
  
  
 also, i will be using this for movies/games on my sager laptop aside from music. will i see benefits to games and movies with this dac? can it handle dolby pro audio for example?
  
 i will be using this with my vsonic gr07 be and jvc mini comp for the most part.
  
 tia.


----------



## Iostream

There might be consensus that the 1.0 is a better deal than the 1.2, but I don't think there really is a consensus on the quality of either one.  Some prefer 1.0, some prefer 1.2


----------



## r010159

ralphp@optonline said:


> The dragon fly requires 5 volts of power to work properly. 5 volts being the power output of a USB port. The dragon fly will work with an ipad provided that you hook it up through a powered USB hub. So here's a question to all those diy types out there: what about making some sort of combination 5 volt power supply and USB cable which could then be used with the DF and iPhones, iPads and other devices which do not have powered USB ports. As a bonus make the power supply rechargeable via a powered USB port. Any takers?




Yes, I agree with this. Using a device from a phone that requires a USB connection to the computer for its power? And this being used to power headphones? Does not make any sense to me. IMO this would not be practical.

Bob Graham


----------



## tim3320070

r010159 said:


> Yes, I agree with this. Using a device from a phone that requires a USB connection to the computer for its power? And this being used to power headphones? Does not make any sense to me. IMO this would not be practical.
> 
> Bob Graham


 
 Sounds really good though from my Note 3 (if not terribly loud)


----------



## EstebanK0

I'm having serious issues with my v1.2.
  
 First of all, volume control doesn't seem to be working. I can only change the volume up or down by half a bar. It won't go any higher or lower when using my netbook hotkeys. Secondly, when I use the volume control found in the taskbar and increase the volume it causes music to be quite "laggy" (delay when starting) as well volume constantly going up and down causing somewhat of a buzzing effect.
  
 My netbook specs:
 Model: Samsung N150 Plus
 OS: Windows XP SP3
 Ram: 2gb DDR3
 CPU: Intel Atom n550


----------



## r010159

tim3320070 said:


> Sounds really good though from my Note 3 (if not terribly loud)


 
  
 OK.  It is good that it works for you. But I think you will get noticeable improved transient response, like the bass, if you were to go to a DAC/amp with a more capable amplifier. Or perhaps add a separate amplifier to your setup.
  
 Bob Graham


----------



## alpha421

Did you try the other two USB ports?  Also, what program are you using for music playback?


----------



## moz

Glad I picked up one of these not long ago -- handy in a pinch.


----------



## Greggo

I would rate it handy in a worst case scenario, and just about "practical end game" quality in other scenarios.  I own and use both the 1.0 and 1.2 on a daily basis.  I find the 1.2 to work as advertised, meaning a slightly smoother sound.  I find 1.2 to be superior to 1.0, but only slightly and only enough to be in any way significant with certain headphone pairings and not with all.  For my HD-700, 1.2 is the clear way to go, for my other headphones past and present, probably not enough difference for me to care 98% of the time.
  
 Regarding 1.0 to 1.2 comparisons, my take on this is that regardless of which one is preferred, others have noticed differences between different units that are just as significant as the differences between versions, so my take away is that this is all a very delicate balance of manufacturing run, condition, USB power supply, headphone pairing, etc...  In my limited experience, I would simply describe the Dragonfly 1.0/1.2 collectively as a 7 to 7.5 in the world of DACs, with 5.0 being the internal DAC of a MacBook pro or iDevice and 9.0 and higher being the best stuff you have ever heard and your BS descriptions and rankings all fall apart the moment you are blindfolded.  And anything 8.0 to 9.0 is stuff you can clearly and consistently hear as superior to most other stuff.  Based on a lot of reading and just a little bit of experience for example, I would rate the Schiit Bifrost an 8.0 and the Bifrost Uber an 8.5.
  
 Regarding pairings in general with the Dragonfly, either version, here is my experience:
  
 Note, I don't do IEMs at all, so just on ear or over ear headphones... in my ranking system, a 5.0 is generally adequate and a 9.0 is so superior that it is hard to imagine the headphones scale up anymore even with a better DAC/AMP combo in the chain.  For me, a 7.0 or better is worth paying attention to because getting better results often involves something closer to a thousand or more worth of gear than just a couple hundred to maybe five hundred dollars worth of gear (the electronics stuff, not counting the headphones...)  So the numbers are relative to what I think the headphones are capable of, not a reference to absolute sound quality.
  
 AKG K550:  8.0  Really good synergy on bass and mids, but there is an etch or sharpness to the highs on these phones that never sat right with me, and the Dragonfly didn't do anything to help tame them.  So not the Dragonfly's fault, I just think these need something warmer.
  
 AKG Q701:  6.5  Not quite enough juice to bring the goods and still a bit bright since these are slightly bright sounding to begin with.  A welcome improvement over direct to MacBook, so a reasonable temporary system for the Q701 lover but upgrades ASAP are still in order.  Just not enough juice to show you what the Q701 is capable of
  
 ATH-ESW9:  8.5  I love these headphones, and the Dragonfly helps brings the highs out a little better without doing any damage to the slightly syrupy midrange, which is balanced nicely with some decent bass... these are great headphones that should be more appreciated here on head-fi.  If there is ever an argument for coloration being a good thing, these headphones make the case.  So better DAC and amp may do a little more justice to full spectrum, but the Dragonfly is an awesome pairing with these, bringing a little extra tightness and punch to the bass, some better instrument separation in the mids, and a much needed dash of sparkle to the highs.  These headphones work better than anything else I have ever tried directly into iPhone or laptop, but the Dragonfly is such a perfect partner, I have to have it in the mix from now on...
  
 Bose AE2: 9.0  these aren't bad headphones, but they are wasted on anything better than a Dragonfly IMHO, otherwise a bit dull sounding but the Dragonfly helps juice them up a bit... and the extra treble definition that the Dragonfly can provide are most welcome here.  Bass tightens up a bit too since I normally find them a bit wooly/muddy when I am direct to iPhone or MacBook.
  
 Senn HD 555:  8.0  good clarity and plenty of power since these are fairly easy to drive, but nothing special, still sound like Classic Sennheisers (and I think that is a good thing in general), but at least you get the sense that there is a bit more solid foundation underneath it all and they won't run out of power like they did on my other laptops all the time.
  
 Senn HD 700:  7.5  a little bright on occasion, but plenty of drive and solid bass with clean mids make you very happy if you like HD-700 signature in general.  Much better sense of speed and control compared to direct consumer sources. I am anxious to upgrade to a really nice DAC and amp to do justice to the HD-700, but the Dragonfly sounds so decent that I can't justify jumping through any hoops to do so quickly..all in good time, and the Dragonfly need make no apologies while it continues to serve as my interim source for serious listening on my best headphones.  At a recent meet I went from Dragonfly to Bifrost / Bottlehead Crack with same headphones and same source (Mac Book with JRiver MC).  Definitely a solid step up, better bass and a more organic sound, smoother highs and a better sense of depth and layers.  I would rate that combo a 8.5 or maybe even a 9.0 with the HD-700, but again, when I went back to the Dragonfly I didn't feel desperate for something better, just looking forward to what I know is the next step up at some point down the road.
  
 Hope this helps anyone still on the fence about the Dragonfly vs going with a more substantial desktop system.


----------



## EstebanK0

alpha421 said:


> Did you try the other two USB ports?  Also, what program are you using for music playback?


 

 Yep, tried all three ports. I'm using foobar


----------



## alpha421

Never used Foobar, but there was a post involving XP and Fooboar.  Perhaps it may be a driver issue:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/617241/audioquest-dragonfly-review-affordable-outstanding-tiny-dac-amp/750#post_8764407


----------



## MickeyVee

@Greggo - Actually, pairing up the Dragonfly with something like the Schiit Vali makes for a wonderful DAC/AMP entry system (with tubes) on the cheap.  I'm really enjoying the combo and am sure it wold be good with the HD700's.  It's quite compelling with the HD800.


----------



## burgerbob

New member here, 
  
 Just bought a used Dragonfly on Amazon for $80. Previously, I have used an Audigy 2Zs soundcard, a Fiio D3K, and most recently an M-Audio interface for a DAC with my computer headphone setup. The Audigy probably sounded the best but was pretty loud on the noise floor front. 
  
 Holy CRAP this thing sounds great. I've been looking into a better DAC for a long time and I had planned on buying the Schiit Modi, but the price just went up by 10 bucks. When I was looking, I happened along the Dragonfly, which had been completely slashed in price from last time I saw it (a couple years ago in the Stereophile review). I quickly bought the used example. 
  
 Like I said, it sounds great. I listen to a lot of electronic music in FLAC format and this thing really shines on it. The bass extension is just all of a sudden there, clarity is through the roof, soundstage is wider by a mile. 
  
 I run it from a Mediabridge cable>Dragonfly>basic 3.5mm to RCA> Bravo V2> Sony MDR-V6 headphones. I have tried it without the Bravo in the mix but it sounds a little sterile for my tastes, especially with these headphones. It sounded better as a pure amp with my Klipsch S4 earphones, so I may use that for travel. The synergy between the Bravo and the Dragonfly is pretty awesome, since the Bravo adds just a little warmth that makes the Sonys shine. 
  
  
 Best of all, I bought it used for really cheap. I actually found out that it's broken- it won't output at anything higher than 44.1kHz. The light changes but there is no output at all. I emailed Audioquest yesterday detailing my problem, and within a few hours they replied, saying that it was probably a defective unit. They sent me an RMA form and just today I got the confirmation with an RMA number. I get to send it back and get a replacement for the cost of shipping! Keep in mind I bought this used, and they know it. Awesome service. 
  
  
 Question for those DF veterans, is it still a good idea to max out the system and player volume when using another amp in the chain? I'm still reading the thread (like page 43 currently) and it was said that it acts like a line out device when maxed out. I like the idea but then I only get like a millimeter of usable knob turn on my headphone amp before it's wildly loud. Any solution to this?


----------



## GeneraI

How does this DAC compare to the audioengine d1?


----------



## EstebanK0

alpha421 said:


> Never used Foobar, but there was a post involving XP and Fooboar.  Perhaps it may be a driver issue:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/617241/audioquest-dragonfly-review-affordable-outstanding-tiny-dac-amp/750#post_8764407


 
  
 Didn't solve my problem I'm afraid. I tried it on a Windows 7 PC and it worked fine, but there's too many issues when using it with my netbook. I'll try on my brother's Mac both OSX and WinXP via bootcamp


----------



## alpha421

Hmmm. The only other thing I can think of is your netbook not providing enough voltage in the usb ports. You can try to connect a powered usb hub to your netbook and if works without issue the netbook usb ports may be the culprit.


----------



## EstebanK0

Having read some pages back, this is issue seems to be common on XP


> "I have the same issue as you with windows xp only.  Audioquest was no help either. They said it was a driver issue, but I used a few different ones and all had the same issue. Mine shoots to full output and does the crazy freakout thing once I come back up from zero.  Windows 7 and OSX have no issues at all."


 
  
 How do you guys get it working on XP?


----------



## Greggo

mickeyvee said:


> @Greggo - Actually, pairing up the Dragonfly with something like the Schiit Vali makes for a wonderful DAC/AMP entry system (with tubes) on the cheap.  I'm really enjoying the combo and am sure it wold be good with the HD700's.  It's quite compelling with the HD800.


 
  
 Yes, I have been tempted by the Vali numerous times.  Haven't tried feeding Dragonfly into an amp but I am paying very close attention to any comments by those who do... watching the DAP forum as well and it is interesting to read the various opinions of headphone out as line out, pros and cons.  Of course, the proof is in the listening and I would love be able to test out a couple of different combinations just for grins.  Would be awesome to see someone do a mini shootout with Dragonfly versus a few other desktop DACs in the 100-500 dollar range all taking turns feeding 2 or 3 different headphone amps.


----------



## Bostonears

greggo said:


> I would rate it handy in a worst case scenario, and just about "practical end game" quality in other scenarios.  I own and use both the 1.0 and 1.2 on a daily basis.  I find the 1.2 to work as advertised, meaning a slightly smoother sound.  I find 1.2 to be superior to 1.0, but only slightly and only enough to be in any way significant with certain headphone pairings and not with all.  For my HD-700, 1.2 is the clear way to go, for my other headphones past and present, probably not enough difference for me to care 98% of the time.
> .....
> .....
> .....
> Hope this helps anyone still on the fence about the Dragonfly vs going with a more substantial desktop system.


 
  
 Thanks for the excellent post and comparison.


----------



## QueenZ

So I've been searching around alot and haven't really found any information regarding this. Does anyone here have any experience pairing this with an Objective 2 amp? I need something more than the dragonfly to amp my 600's and have looked around for a good looking amp and so far the best I have seen for my price range is the Objective 2. Any input from anyone who has tried this combo would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## Cotnijoe

O2 is a great amplifier for the price. Ive never tried it with the HD600 so idk what the synergy is like but i can say its a great amp that definitely has the power for the H600


----------



## SirDedale

Sorry to hijack the topic but after some research (thanks Head-Fi...!), I think the DF would be a nice fit for my HD650s.
 I was wondering how much would cost a dragonfly second hand as I'm in Canada and people there tend to sell it for $155 to 185,(no, I'm serious...), so perhaps after that I can make a informed decision and start watching the trade threads here.


----------



## MickeyVee

Not sure what kind of price you're willing to pay but the going rate is $150 in Canada if you look around.  I got the DF 1.2 new for less than that (I've dealt this this store for years and can negotiate  and sold my 1.0 for $90.  There are a lot of stores around still at the original prices. It's $150 at Headphone Bar including shipping but not taxes. You can check out the used market (Canuck Audio Mart) but they seem to sell fast. I think the 1.0 might be better for the HD650.  Pair it up with a Schiit Vali later on and you've got yourself a pretty sweet little system.
 Quote:


sirdedale said:


>


----------



## SirDedale

Thanks for the heads up. Actually, I found some local stores which sell it. I wanted to buy second hand as I already have a Aune T1 and I'm not sure yet if that's really The one for my HD650s. I'd like to try both and then decide on which one to keep.
  
 And yes, the prices I've quoted before are from CanuckAudio...


----------



## burgerbob

Can you not buy new from Amazon? The v1.0 is only $99 new, and like $90 used.


----------



## SirDedale

Not in Canada. It's $200 and there's only the v2 available.
 That's ok, I need to go to the US in a couple of weeks, I will grab one there.


----------



## pdrm360

Has anyone compared the DragonFly with Audioengine D3?


----------



## DrikTheTroll

I just picked up one of the V1.0 Dragonflys and am getting the occasional quick pop and click out of it occasionally, especially if I am doing something else on my PC. Other than that, I'm quite enjoying it.
  
 I don't experience this with a Schitt Modi - are there any known issues like this? Does it sound like a defective unit?
  
 Any feedback appreciated.


----------



## pdrm360

drikthetroll said:


> I just picked up one of the V1.0 Dragonflys and am getting the occasional quick pop and click out of it occasionally, especially if I am doing something else on my PC. Other than that, I'm quite enjoying it.
> 
> I don't experience this with a Schitt Modi - are there any known issues like this? Does it sound like a defective unit?
> 
> Any feedback appreciated.


 
  
 I've never had this issues on Windows 7 & 8.


----------



## QueenZ

I used to have issues with windows 8 before any updates. I updated everything including the free upgrade to 8.1 and since then I havent heard a single click or pop, if anything it sounds better! And yes Audioquest acknowledged the clicking issue with windows 8 and has since fixed it. make sure your computer is up to date and let us know if that fixes it! I hope it does because that clicking drove me absolutely insane.


----------



## DrikTheTroll

I am running Windows 7 so that's not the issue.
  
 I may have it isolated though - may just be a cable issue or at least a cable seating issue.. Had it connected via a Mediabridge USB extender. Connected directly to my USB port and the issue seems to have resolved.
  
 Thanks for the feedback.


----------



## pdrm360

drikthetroll said:


> I am running Windows 7 so that's not the issue.
> 
> I may have it isolated though - may just be a cable issue or at least a cable seating issue.. Had it connected via a Mediabridge USB extender. Connected directly to my USB port and the issue seems to have resolved.
> 
> Thanks for the feedback.


 
  
 Hech, a bad USB cable!!!


----------



## orangecr

I've been reading this thread for a while, and now I am considering sell my O2 or trade it for a DragonFLy 1.2. 
 I love the O2, but I could use a more portable DAC/Amp.


----------



## r010159

Be careful with your decision. I would advise you to purchase the Dragonfly first to see if it meets your needs. I suspect there are some trade offs between the two, power being one.

Bob Graham


----------



## orangecr

Thanks. The problem is I will probably end up keeping both :$. 
I never heard my Grados sound better with anything else other than the O2. The DF should work fine for them when traveling.


----------



## jzj24

I learned that iTunes does not switch sample rate output automatically, so to get the best performance out of Dragonfly, one has to switch the output sample rate manually in the Audio MIDI Setup utility. I can't justify spending $129 for the highly-rated Pure Music player to replace iTunes, just to get automatic switching capability. Has anyone had experience just leaving the setting at 96000 regardless of the the actual sample rate of the files? I can't hear much difference, but don't necessarily know what specific things to check.


----------



## QueenZ

Im not 100% sure if this is accurate but what I have noticed since getting my dragonfly is that, when I play music on Foobar i set it to output wasapi event on my DF. And when i play music its usually on green showing that its playing 44.1Khz but once I play a song thats at 96khz there is a slight pause in the music and the light on the dragonfly automatically changes to Amber signifying its on 96khz. I would give this a shot if you arent too attached to Itunes.


----------



## jzj24

queenz said:


> Im not 100% sure if this is accurate but what I have noticed since getting my dragonfly is that, when I play music on Foobar i set it to output wasapi event on my DF. And when i play music its usually on green showing that its playing 44.1Khz but once I play a song thats at 96khz there is a slight pause in the music and the light on the dragonfly automatically changes to Amber signifying its on 96khz. I would give this a shot if you arent too attached to Itunes.


 
 Thanks for the idea. I'm using a Mac, so Foobar is not an option.


----------



## MickeyVee

If you want to auto switch bitrates on a Mac & iTunes, check out Audirvana+  Of all the extensions, it's the most reasonable I found for SQ and features. Otherwise, you're OK just leaving it at 96K but note that the Mac is upsampling. leave it at the rate that you have most of bor best results. ie.  44.1K, 24bit 
 Quote:


jzj24 said:


>


----------



## jzj24

Thanks. I'll give Audirvana+ a listen.


----------



## r010159

I also would recommend Fidelia for a player separate of iTunes.
  
 Bob Graham


----------



## kenshinhimura

jzj24 said:


> Thanks. I'll give Audirvana+ a listen.




Maybe Bitperfect might work for you. Think it's a Mac program that changes the bitrate for you on iTunes.


----------



## jzj24

Just downloaded Bitperfect. It switches sample rates automatically and sounds great. At $9.99, the price is right, too! Thanks.


----------



## kenshinhimura

No problem


----------



## brybry24

Has anybody tried the Dragonfly with AKG Q701? Please share your experiences because I am looking for a cheap but effective dac or dac/amp for the Q701's. Thanks!


----------



## kenshinhimura

i've used it as a dac for my K701, and i thought they sounded very good together. This was with using a vintage amp to power the K701, not the Dragonfly.


----------



## Greggo

brybry24 said:


> Has anybody tried the Dragonfly with AKG Q701? Please share your experiences because I am looking for a cheap but effective dac or dac/amp for the Q701's. Thanks!


 
 I mention my own experience a few posts back:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/617241/audioquest-dragonfly-review-affordable-outstanding-tiny-dac-amp/1680#post_10246405
  
 I thought it sounded good overall, but if the Q701 were my primary headphone (I sold them a few months ago...) I would look for other options to compare with.  Not sure there is much better at this price point, but if it were me I would do some more shopping around...  As I mentioned in my post above, I think it is perfectly fine as a temporary solution, and maybe beyond temporary if you don't find the Q701 to be a tad bright sounding as I do.  For me, the Dragonfly was a most welcome upgrade from my laptop or phone headphone output.  Everything sounded better, with better bass and a better soundstage.  I think the amp section is what matters most with Q701, especially when you get to the level of DAC performance around the Dragonfly and above.
  
 If it were me, I would not hesitate to start with the Dragonfly 1.2 and then maybe later upgrade to a Matrix M-Stage or something similar... but the problem is that the new Matrix M-Stage HPA-2 with USB DAC is getting really good feedback, and since you only pay another 30 or 40 dollars for the USB DAC version, the most efficient thing to do would be to suffer along with Q701 direct to consumer device and then just get the HPA-2 USB DAC when you can.  Then if you really get into it, you can get a much more serious DAC like a Bifrost Uber or better and the HPA-2 amp section will still do it justice.  No need to have the Dragonfly in the middle of all of that.  This coming from someone who is a very very big fan of the Dragonfly, both versions...


----------



## brybry24

greggo said:


> I mention my own experience a few posts back:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/617241/audioquest-dragonfly-review-affordable-outstanding-tiny-dac-amp/1680#post_10246405
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the reply. I will look into the amp/dac you suggested!


----------



## Iostream

brybry24 said:


> Thanks for the reply. I will look into the amp/dac you suggested!


 
 If you are looking for something cheaper, try using the dragonfly to feed a vali.  That combination is great with the Q701 without breaking the bank.


----------



## MickeyVee

+1 on DF & Vali.. using the combo to run a pair of Grado RS1i's.. very nice.. pic here.. post #17100
 Quote:


iostream said:


> If you are looking for something cheaper, try using the dragonfly to feed a vali.  That combination is great with the Q701 without breaking the bank.


----------



## Greggo

I would still crave the additional warmth of the HPA-2, but I must recognize the Dragonfly + Vali as the best performance for dollar recommendation.  I have not heard the Vali yet for myself, but the feedback is so strong and wide reaching that you can read through the Vali thread and find enough meaningful comments that you will walk away with a really good idea if that is a good option for you.
  
 I say best value because I think the design and portability of the Dragonfly is worth the small premium over something like a Modi if you think a portable / mobile solution is a plus for your situation.  It is for me, and I have become a big fan of the Dragonfly the more I use it with a variety of headphones as well.


----------



## r010159

jzj24 said:


> Thanks. I'll give Audirvana+ a listen.


 
  
 I am trying out Audirvana+ right now. It has two features that are impressive. One is it bypasses Core Audio on OS X The other is it supports the integer mode of my DAC. I am a cynic. So I was not expecting anything much different than from Fidelia. Boy, was I wrong. Still, Fidelia only costs $20, which IMO is the best value for a decent player. Audirvana+ costs something like $70. And then there are the plugins.
  
 Bob Graham


----------



## brazy001

I found this also, that you do lose a few notches of volume of which the note 3 is already quiet. Also did you find a vast improvement using the drsgonfly over the note 3 internal dac. I noticed slight improvement (smoother, more musical, fuller bass) but only slightly. I am still deciding if it is worth using it as a portable given the loss in volume and marginal Sq benefits. 

Another question I had, does connecting the dragonfly bypass the internal dac. where if I plug my earphones into the devices headphone out rather than the df out, it still uses df conversion. Only reason I am querying is when I plug the dac into note 3, pink led is lit regardless where headphones are plugged (or not plugged at all).

Do note I use 330kbps mp3s as a source and not flac or any lossless format (again marginal benefit for me for large files and most of my listening is on public transport). The iem's I use are phonak pfe 132. 



tim3320070 said:


> Sounds really good though from my Note 3 (if not terribly loud)


----------



## tim3320070

brazy001 said:


> I found this also, that you do lose a few notches of volume of which the note 3 is already quiet. Also did you find a vast improvement using the drsgonfly over the note 3 internal dac. I noticed slight improvement (smoother, more musical, fuller bass) but only slightly. I am still deciding if it is worth using it as a portable given the loss in volume and marginal Sq benefits.
> 
> Another question I had, does connecting the dragonfly bypass the internal dac. where if I plug my earphones into the devices headphone out rather than the df out, it still uses df conversion. Only reason I am querying is when I plug the dac into note 3, pink led is lit regardless where headphones are plugged (or not plugged at all).
> 
> Do note I use 330kbps mp3s as a source and not flac or any lossless format (again marginal benefit for me for large files and most of my listening is on public transport). The iem's I use are phonak pfe 132.


 
 All DAC's are slight improvements for the most part IMO. What I can't take on my Note 3 is the edgy sound from the internal amp, the Dragonfly fixes that. 320 mp3's is more than adequate for a portable setup, I don't care what anyone says about lossless. I am not certain it bypasses the dac but I can't imagine it does not.


----------



## jzj24

I thought I would pass on an update regarding my search for a way to switch playback sample rates automatically to match the level in the tracks that play in iTunes. I downloaded and tried BitPerfect, since it was the least expensive option and the interface remains iTunes. You just make sure BitPerfect is running and then play music in iTunes as usual. I found that BitPerfect increased the Bass, but I didn't hear much difference in the overall sound quality vs. the Dragonfly 1.2 DAC alone. Meanwhile, the downside is that it disables the iTunes equalizer settings and renders useless any third party add-ons such as Hear. Also, with BItPerfect running, the play count/last played feature in iTunes does not work when playback moves from song to song. It only works when you double-click a song to start. The subsequent tracks that play in order are not counted.
  
 To my ears, the other two potential solutions that I tried, Audirvana+ and Fidelia, also offered only modest improvements vs. Dragonfly 1.2 alone. Of the two, I slightly prefer the Audirvana+ player, but I'm not sure it is worth the price premium.
  
 Bottom line: I'm happy with the Dragonfly and I wish Apple would just add automatic sample rate switching to iTunes. I prefer its interface and would rather not add another player to the mix for cost and convenience reasons.


----------



## r010159

Why don't you splurge a little? Fidelia is $20 and you can try it out before purchasing. Audirvana basic is FREE. Maybe one of those players will work for you? 

Bob Graham


----------



## x838nwy

http://www.aloaudio.com/dacs/the-key

Looks interesting... Does higher res. but i have no idea how it sounds...


----------



## tim3320070

DAC only though, no head amp like the DF.


----------



## jzj24

r010159 said:


> Audirvana basic is FREE.
> 
> Bob Graham


 
 I found a download for Audirvana Plus, but not the free basic version. Does the Plus version default to the free one after the trial period, or is there another download that I missed?


----------



## brazy001

Thanks for the clarification. Just updating my experience again. I have now tried the dragonfly with Galaxy Note 3 using USB audio player pro and now the sampling rate is getting matched (colour is changing depending on song). Also using this app by changing the volume control to 'hardware' the volume issue is completely gone. Normal listening levels now about 1/4 high. I had come from iPhone 4s and normal listening levels for me was half way usually. This makes me think that the volume output levels are a software restriction on Samsungs part.

Sound had also cleaned right up and difference is easily noticeable, even for my inexperienced ears. 

Stock player and neutron loses volume output and sampling rate seems stuck on 96k so I assume the df keeps up sampling (and there is a mismatch?)

My only gripe is that using this app you have to use the in app volume control and renders the physical volume buttons useless. Also no left right channel tweaks which would be good. UI isn't the prettiest but that doesn't bother me really. 

Anyway that's my two bob.

Cheers



tim3320070 said:


> All DAC's are slight improvements for the most part IMO. What I can't take on my Note 3 is the edgy sound from the internal amp, the Dragonfly fixes that. 320 mp3's is more than adequate for a portable setup, I don't care what anyone says about lossless. I am not certain it bypasses the dac but I can't imagine it does not.


----------



## r010159

Here is a url for Audirvana Free: https://code.google.com/p/audirvana/downloads/list
  
 Bob Graham


----------



## tim3320070

brazy001 said:


> Thanks for the clarification. Just updating my experience again. I have now tried the dragonfly with Galaxy Note 3 using USB audio player pro and now the sampling rate is getting matched (colour is changing depending on song). Also using this app by changing the volume control to 'hardware' the volume issue is completely gone. Normal listening levels now about 1/4 high. I had come from iPhone 4s and normal listening levels for me was half way usually. This makes me think that the volume output levels are a software restriction on Samsungs part.
> 
> Sound had also cleaned right up and difference is easily noticeable, even for my inexperienced ears.
> 
> ...


 
 This is super helpful, thanks! I tried UAPP briefly but did not know about the volume. My Note 3 once got really loud after an incoming text as though what ever was holding back the volume was released briefly so I knew it could be louder.
  
 Edit: tried this and hear no difference in volume? Settings:Volume Control: Hardware volume control enabled, yes?


----------



## jzj24

r010159 said:


> Here is a url for Audirvana Free: https://code.google.com/p/audirvana/downloads/list
> 
> Bob Graham


 
 Thanks for the link. It is likely that the free version is not compatible with Mac OS 10.9, as it crashes whenever I try to open it.


----------



## brazy001

Hmm yes, that's the right setting. I think I did read that you couldn't have music playing when you made the switch in volume control. Is the dragonfly sampling correctly and changing lights with different sample rates? 

Also my Android version is 4.3 and model n9005. 




tim3320070 said:


> This is super helpful, thanks! I tried UAPP briefly but did not know about the volume. My Note 3 once got really loud after an incoming text as though what ever was holding back the volume was released briefly so I knew it could be louder.
> 
> Edit: tried this and hear no difference in volume? Settings:Volume Control: Hardware volume control enabled, yes?


----------



## tim3320070

brazy001 said:


> Hmm yes, that's the right setting. I think I did read that you couldn't have music playing when you made the switch in volume control. Is the dragonfly sampling correctly and changing lights with different sample rates?
> 
> Also my Android version is 4.3 and model n9005.


 
 That was it! I made the change before I hooked up DF or played music. Loud as need be now.


----------



## BenF

Has anyone heard both Dragonfly 1.2 and Geek Out?
  
 How does Dragonfly 1.2 (as a DAC) compare to ODAC? or ALO Audio's the Key?


----------



## Cotnijoe

I doubt anyone has yet to hear the key. Very interested tho as well


----------



## tim3320070

Key is Dac only


----------



## Law87

Just won this thing (version 1.2) on ebay for 81 bucks! Cant wait to try it. going to be going from DF>BSG CMOY> Mad Dog


----------



## BenF

tim3320070 said:


> Key is Dac only


 

 That's why I wrote "as a DAC".


----------



## deadie

I own the Dragonfly v1 and confirm it works, plug n play, with the new Samsung Galaxy Tab Pro 10.1.  I used an OTG cable to hook up the DAC, and could play both streaming and local stored 44/96 FLACs as well as 44 M4As but a strange thing happened with a 96khz ALAC M4A.
  
 Google Play Music streaming

  
 96khz FLAC

  
 This should be a 96khz ALAC, but the tablet or the Poweramp playback software downrez'd it to a slooowwww "30.5khz" file.  Weird.

  
 Note the blue color "code" the Dragonfly is showing, meaning that it's being fed 44.1 from the tablet, regardless of source.
  
 The SQ is good, better than the Tab's headphone out, clearer, more defined, more air, less congested.  The overall volume output is quite low, however.  I was able to max volume using my UE10s and could have used more punch, so clearly it ain't going to drive normal cans.
  
 Again, the sound was good, but nothing compared to a PC running JRiver.  So much more power and clarity.
  
 But all in all, this was an interesting experiment.  The Tab itself is pretty awesome.  Fast, super thin and light, and has just a bonkers screen @ 2,560 x 1,600 resolution.  Thankfully, the colors aren't as over-cooked as a few other Samsung phones / tablets that I've seen.  Lastly, the Tab has enough juice to power and read from a travel ext HD, using the OTG cable.


----------



## Dougr33

^^^Wonder if there would be enough power to get good volume out of IEMs like my Etys?


----------



## brazy001

I had similar issue with my galaxy note 3, was stuck on pink led regardless of source and low volume. I would say this is not quite plug and play and doesn't match sailing rate. Using USBAPP and turning volume control to 'hardwrare' you will notice much cleaner sound and ample volume. (If the tab usb output power is similar to the note). I would say Half volume on the note would cause some long term hearing issues on any standard iem. 

Sampling rate will also be correct (colour change accordingly). You are then stuck using this app though. Wish it was plug and play system wide!



deadie said:


> I own the Dragonfly v1 and confirm it works, plug n play, with the new Samsung Galaxy Tab Pro 10.1.  I used an OTG cable to hook up the DAC, and could play both streaming and local stored 44/96 FLACs as well as 44 M4As but a strange thing happened with a 96khz ALAC M4A.
> 
> Google Play Music streaming
> 
> ...





To the below. If output is similar to the note with USBAAPP I would say yes, I use phonak's pfe132 which are harder to drive iems. 



dougr33 said:


> ^^^Wonder if there would be enough power to get good volume out of IEMs like my Etys?


----------



## AyeVeeN

I'm using a 6.5ft extension so this might be the cause of the issue (it is for 24bit/96kHz) but does anyone else have issues where the DragonFly just stops outputting and then where you have to re-plug it in? It also freezes the video / audio that's playing and it gets quite warm when this happens. Running it at 24bit/44.1kHz usually due to the extension issue w/ 96kHz.


----------



## mrscotchguy

Thought I'd give an update since people have mentioned the Galaxy Note 3. I just picked up my Note 3 from Amazon about a week ago. I luckily already had an OTG cable. So here are some quick impressions. 

After reading through the last few posts about the hardware/software limiting the sound levels, (my guess it has something to do with their hearing loss warning/prevention) I can only say, this shouldn't effect most listeners. If you're running Note 3 > DF > headphone, then volume may be a problem on a hi impedance or tough to drive can (like my HE-4) . But in most situations, using the average impedance headphone, it's easy to get the sound loud and surprisingly musical. 

To date, I have only tested Spotify and Pandora feeding my Grado SR80i, Hifiman HE-4, and my HD800s. Currently, only the SR80i sound good run in this configuration. That said, the Grados sound absolutely fantastic! I have never heard them sound so listenable since owning them. Mind you, I have tried them in literally hundreds of configurations. 

I just got a new puppy, so I haven't had much time (patience, or courage) to run much of my better equipment, but I will say, I am blown away by the setup I am listening to right now, as I type this.

Galaxy Note 3 > Spotify > OTG Cable (generic) > Dragonfly (unconfigured and lite up pink) > EF5 > Hifiman HE-4

There is a good chance this chain may just be too euphonic to some, but not for me... Just heavenly! 

I am happy to say, I am pretty sure I just found my perfect couch companion. I plan to test this with a USB 3.0 OTG and maybe a higher quality (and more flexible) cable. Though, there's a good chance, I will get distracted enjoying this synergy.


----------



## brazy001

Hi Mrscotchguy, 

That's great that you ate happy with the combo as am I! 

Although the volume issue may not be an issue for most cans or listeners, I think those looking to use the note 3/df combo should note that without the USBAPP (unconfigured) the df sound signature doesn't come through. What I mean by this is that I notice that, independent of volume, using USBAPP the music is 'cleaner' and sounds more detailed. The mids I think are pulled forward and the sound is the same as what I would get using the df using a computer ie the df sound sig. 

I am not sure if maybe using the app with hardware volume control uses the dragonfly amp and without uses the note 3 on board amp ( I'm just having a stab in the dark).

Anyway I am interested to see if you have tried USB APP and would love to hear if your impressions are similar to mine. You can get a free trial from the developer. 

Unfortunately if using this you would not be able to use Spotify or any other music player. 

If you do find a good OTG cable, let me know! I am using USB 3 one from eBay but is quite large and inflexible. Also worried about when using in a pocket if there is strain on the phone's socket as people have had issues with computer USB ports :s





mrscotchguy said:


> Thought I'd give an update since people have mentioned the Galaxy Note 3. I just picked up my Note 3 from Amazon about a week ago. I luckily already had an OTG cable. So here are some quick impressions.
> 
> After reading through the last few posts about the hardware/software limiting the sound levels, (my guess it has something to do with their hearing loss warning/prevention) I can only say, this shouldn't effect most listeners. If you're running Note 3 > DF > headphone, then volume may be a problem on a hi impedance or tough to drive can (like my HE-4) . But in most situations, using the average impedance headphone, it's easy to get the sound loud and surprisingly musical.
> 
> ...


----------



## mrscotchguy

brazy001 said:


> Hi Mrscotchguy,
> 
> That's great that you ate happy with the combo as am I!
> 
> ...




About the volume from the DF as an amp, it hasn't been an issue for me as long I don't try to use it with my HE-4 directly. I tend to listen to a much lower volume than most of my local HeadFi friends, but I can see where this could be a bit too low for most. I think Samsung is worried about a law suit for hearing damage since there is a popup any time I listen from the headphone out at more than 50% volume!

As for the sound signature, I rather like the N3>DF combo. It comes off more airy, laid back, and less harsh than I've heard the DF fed from my Win7/Win8.1/OSX 10.5. I may putz with some settings down the road, but only after I get a 64gb sd card and load up some FLAC. 

My biggest criticism has always been how loud the output of the DF has been. I can only ever listen to it as a DAC since I generally had to set the volumes between 0 to 11 at most on my 300ohm HD800!

I'll keep you updated as I get more time to listen.


----------



## brybry24

Quick question. Can I use this DAC with a seperate amp? (But wouldn't that be double amping the signal? Because I heard that's bad)


----------



## BenF

brybry24 said:


> Quick question. Can I use this DAC with a seperate amp? (But wouldn't that be double amping the signal? Because I heard that's bad)


 
  
http://www.audioquest.com/usb_digital_analog_converter/faqs
  
 "DragonFly is also capable of being employed as a traditional fixed-output source component (such as a CD, DVD or Blu-ray player), and can be connected to a standard input on a receiver or preamplifier. For this application, both the music player’s volume control and the main operating system volume control should be set to maximum. This “fixed output mode” allows your audio or AV system’s volume control to be in charge."


----------



## cebuboy

How does the Dragonfly v1.2 compare against the Microstreamer?


----------



## blasjw

Ordered a Dragonfly 1.0 from Amazon and they sent a 1.2.


----------



## nicdub

blasjw said:


> Ordered a Dragonfly 1.0 from Amazon and they sent a 1.2.


 
 nice!  better that than ordering a v1.2 and getting a v1.0.


----------



## BenF

Getting v1.2 for 99$ is sure nice...


----------



## blasjw

nicdub said:


> nice!  better that than ordering a v1.2 and getting a v1.0.


 
  
 Indeed!  I was very surprised when I pulled it out of the box and noticed the 1/8" jack looked sort of grey which is supposed to be 1.2.  So then I looked at the box and it said 1.2.


----------



## blasjw

benf said:


> Getting v1.2 for 99$ is sure nice...


 
  
 Yes, and I listened to it for a while last night with my DT-990 Pros and it sure sounds nice as well.


----------



## orangecr

blasjw said:


> Ordered a Dragonfly 1.0 from Amazon and they sent a 1.2.



What seller? 
By the way, does anybody know if there are lots fake DF 1.0 or 1.2 out there?


----------



## bliss53

Worked for me with an iPhone 5s and the latest iPad Mini Retina.  See my post at http://www.head-fi.org/t/634555/ipad-mini-camera-connection-kit-dac/60.


----------



## BenF

I have received my DragonFly v1.2, and it ended up being a disappointment.
  
 SQ-wise, it's very similar to ODAC, no problem there.
 But it's just too powerful!
  
 I bought the DragonFly to replace ODAC+E12 as my on-the-go setup, but I can't use my IEMs with it!
 I have to set the Foobar at -40dB for IE80, any louder and it's too much.
 I'm afraid that one day I'll forget to lower the volume, and then - BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!
 Don't want to risk hearing loss.
  
 Because of this, I can only use DF as a DAC only device, defeating the whole purpose of this purchase.
  
 Now I'm worried about the GEEK - even the weakest one is more powerful then DF...
 And I bought the Super Duper Geek - 1000mW at 16ohm.
 Well, at least it has a better DAC chip inside, so it won't be a total waste.


----------



## terance

This might be a silly question, but has anyone tried this with an Asgard 2?


----------



## mrscotchguy

terance said:


> This might be a silly question, but has anyone tried this with an Asgard 2?




I tried it with my old Asgard 1 and it sounded good. I can't see why the A2 wouldn't either. The Dragonfly sounds great with my EF5. I only notice that it's short coming is when paired with super revealing amps.


----------



## BenF

Tried the Dragonfly with my large cans.
 DF drives HE-400 at -12-13dB in Foobar, and AD-900X at -23-25dB.
 Can't believe that just 125mW at 32ohm is doing all that - or maybe mine has wrong gain setting?
 Looks like it was really made for big and hard to drive headphones, not IEMs.
  
 Do most people use it as a DAC only when working with IEMs?
 And if not, how do you make sure you won't blow your ears and brain off in case you forget to lower the volume?


----------



## j14mp

I posted in here a while ago and mentioned returning it because it sat too unstable in the usb port with my Grados.  Grado chords are very heavy.  I bought it again to use with lcd-2.  I know, its a bad combo, but its better than nothing.  Bought dragon tail for it as suggested,


----------



## blasjw

j14mp said:


> I posted in here a while ago and mentioned returning it because it sat too unstable in the usb port with my Grados.  Grado chords are very heavy.  I bought it again to use with lcd-2.  I know, its a bad combo, but its better than nothing.  Bought dragon tail for it as suggested,


 
  
 What's so great about the dragon tail?  Just curious.


----------



## BenF

blasjw said:


> What's so great about the dragon tail?  Just curious.


 

 It's just an extension cable to prevent damage to the Dragonfly.
 You can buy similar cables for 1$ on eBay - as I did.


----------



## Cotnijoe

What i do is just put a rubber foot on the dragonfly. Fixed everything and no need for USB extension cords


----------



## BenF

I don't see how this helps - it's not like DF is too heavy and bends under its own weight.


----------



## Cotnijoe

it doesnt bend for sure but still relieves stress on the USB port


----------



## mrscotchguy

cotnijoe said:


> it doesnt bend for sure but still relieves stress on the USB port




No one is pointing a gun to your head, making you buy an extension... We just suggest one to extend the life of your components. The Dragonfly's male never inserts finally into the female. There also is a good bit of weight that can lead to damage. The reason for the DragonTail over a cheap USB extension is that it's usually $16 and uses AQ's carbon line (solid core copper). Believe cable smoke or not... A good cable is reliable. The $1-5 cables always end up dying on me, eventually.

Sorry if I come off snooty. But if you use one long enough (or read through the entire thread) it makes way more sense.


----------



## terance

Does anyone know if this will work with a Playstation 4?
  
 I know my USB headset works, so I'm assuming that this will too.


----------



## BenF

terance said:


> Does anyone know if this will work with a Playstation 4?
> 
> I know my USB headset works, so I'm assuming that this will too.


 
 It should
http://www.reddit.com/r/PS4/comments/1qr7i1/audio_output_to_usb_dac/


----------



## tim3320070

mrscotchguy said:


> No one is pointing a gun to your head, making you buy an extension... We just suggest one to extend the life of your components. The Dragonfly's male never inserts finally into the female. There also is a good bit of weight that can lead to damage. The reason for the DragonTail over a cheap USB extension is that it's usually $16 and uses AQ's carbon line (solid core copper). Believe cable smoke or not... A good cable is reliable. The $1-5 cables always end up dying on me, eventually.
> 
> Sorry if I come off snooty. But if you use one long enough (or read through the entire thread) it makes way more sense.


 
 You had me at "uses AQ's carbon line (solid core copper)" = a load of dung.
 Yes cheaply made cables die sooner sometimes but a $16 cable is not needed at all for this.


----------



## nicdub

i paid the $16 for the dragontail, and it has served me well.  probably as well as other cables would, but it was $16, not $50, and length was perfect for what i needed it for.  no regrets here.


----------



## terance

benf said:


> It should
> http://www.reddit.com/r/PS4/comments/1qr7i1/audio_output_to_usb_dac/


 

 Just picked one up, will report back with my findings.


----------



## j14mp

blasjw said:


> What's so great about the dragon tail?  Just curious.




It prevents damage to the dragonfly and USB port.


----------



## blasjw

j14mp said:


> It prevents damage to the dragonfly and USB port.


 
 Ah, good point.  That's one reason I hadn't thought of or heard before.


----------



## terance

Hey guys, little problem.
  
 I just got home from work and sat down at my PC and now my Dragonfly is not outputting any audio.
  
 I have gone through and checked to make sure the settings are correct and nothing is working.
  
 When I try to play a test tone in windows it says that it failed to play a test tone and when playing something through music bee it tells me that there is a Bass_error_handle.
  
 It worked 12 hours ago =/


----------



## ralphp@optonline

terance said:


> Hey guys, little problem.
> 
> I just got home from work and sat down at my PC and now my Dragonfly is not outputting any audio.
> 
> ...


 

 A silly question: is the Dagonfly getting power or enough power, i.e. does it glow?


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Sorry to beat a dead horse but even searching didn't get a solid answer. @mrscotchguy seemed to have the closest thing but not a definite yes.

 Does the Dragonfly V1.0 or V1.2 work with just an OTG cable to a Galaxy S3?

 And completely separate but related, will 200mA run the Dragonfly?


----------



## mrscotchguy

soundsgoodtome said:


> Sorry to beat a dead horse but even searching didn't get a solid answer. @mrscotchguy
> seemed to have the closest thing but not a definite yes.
> 
> 
> Does the Dragonfly V1.0 or V1.2 work with just an OTG cable to a Galaxy S3?




My brother still has an S3. I can see if he can let me try it out. But from what I read, the reason the DF works is due to Samsung's TouchWiz. I don't know if the S3 has that or if it's even the same as the Note. We tried the DF one of my employees S4 and it didn't work...


----------



## tim3320070

Just tried it on my daughters (AT&T) S3 and it would not work- stated "high powered USB device connected....". Guessing it can't power it sufficiently. She is on 4.1.2 Android.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

tim3320070 said:


> Just tried it on my daughters (AT&T) S3 and it would not work- stated "high powered USB device connected....". Guessing it can't power it sufficiently. She is on 4.1.2 Android.


 
 Thank you! That's what I wanted to know.


----------



## terance

ralphp@optonline said:


> A silly question: is the Dagonfly getting power or enough power, i.e. does it glow?


 

 Yup, currently glowing.
  
 I've tried a few different USB ports and nothing.
  
 The computer recognizes that it is there, but is seeming to refuse to play any music through it.


----------



## Law87

how do you get this to work on android device? I currently have an LG G2, and I have no idea how to make it work.


----------



## artheo

I have paired the Dragonfly v1.2 with my Philips Fidelio X1.
 Everything is very good apart from a couple of things:
 1. The voices in some songs are too weak (ex. Guns 'n' Roses - November rain)
     Have you experienced the same?
 2. The soundstage seems a bit compressed and the instruments are placed very close to each other. I believe a headphone amp is needed to improve these things. Do you agree?


----------



## BenF

artheo said:


> I have paired the Dragonfly v1.2 with my Philips Fidelio X1.
> Everything is very good apart from a couple of things:
> 1. The voices in some songs are too weak (ex. Guns 'n' Roses - November rain)
> Have you experienced the same?
> 2. The soundstage seems a bit compressed and the instruments are placed very close to each other. I believe a headphone amp is needed to improve these things. Do you agree?


 

 Did you try other DACs and amplifiers with X1?


----------



## artheo

BenF:
 Yes I have tried them also with the Aune X1, Colorfly C3 (DAP) and my laptop's output.
 After listening with all the above devices, I can safely say that the DF is thin in the midrange (voices). Not recessed, just thin.
 Also it has the smallest soundstage width in comparison, narrower even than my laptop's built-in audio.
 That's why I strongly believe that it needs to be paired with a headphone amp.
  
 I would like to read the opinions from other DF 1.2 users on these areas.


----------



## Nitreb

artheo said:


> BenF:
> Yes I have tried them also with the Aune X1, Colorfly C3 (DAP) and my laptop's output.
> After listening with all the above devices, I can safely say that the DF is thin in the midrange (voices). Not recessed, just thin.
> Also it has the smallest soundstage width in comparison, narrower even than my laptop's built-in audio.
> ...


 

 I don't know about version 1.2, but I have version 1.0 - On my laptop, the midrange is not thin at all and that the soundstage is reasonnably wide. Of course, these are subjective impressions


----------



## mrscotchguy

nitreb said:


> I don't know about version 1.2, but I have version 1.0 - On my laptop, the midrange is not thin at all and that the soundstage is reasonnably wide. Of course, these are subjective impressions




Agreed. That said, the shop that sold me mine had a demo that was much more airy than mine. My guess is each DF has its own "personality", and some better than others. (Almost wish there were factory grades at slightly higher prices)

I haven't had the chance to listen to a DF1.2, but it sounds like the consensus is that it's either warmer than the gen1 or not as good. I'm still rockin an early release 1.0. I am curious how the 3 releases compare sound-wise.


----------



## maibuN

How does the dragonfly drive a HD800 compared to a Macbook Pro headphone output?
  
 Some time ago i made a blind test with Matrix M Stage, Meier Audio Corda Symphony.2 and my Macbook output and I couldn't tell any differences. So if the Dragonfly would have a little bit (not much) more power than a the headphone out I think it could be good for me.


----------



## mrscotchguy

maibun said:


> How does the dragonfly drive a HD800 compared to a Macbook Pro headphone output?
> 
> Some time ago i made a blind test with Matrix M Stage, Meier Audio Corda Symphony.2 and my Macbook output and I couldn't tell any differences. So if the Dragonfly would have a little bit (not much) more power than a the headphone out I think it could be good for me.




Not sure about a MBP, but on my netbook, PowerBook G4, and PC... The volume is too damned loud for me to handle. I generally had to listen on for 0-14 on most songs and at 14 that is for a minute or two at a time. 

I generally only use my DF as a DAC unless its plugged into my Note3 due to the volume/gain issue. That said, the DF can sound pretty decent with the HD800, but there are many better options out there.


----------



## Alex212

Has anyone tried using the DF 1.2 with an android 4.2 tablet connecting thru a mini usb adapter?


----------



## Law87

alex212 said:


> Has anyone tried using the DF 1.2 with an android 4.2 tablet connecting thru a mini usb adapter?


 

 doesnt work for me on my nexus 7


----------



## aLm0sT

---


----------



## artheo

After I did some careful listening with the Audioquest DF v1.2 using my Philips Fidelio X1, I concluded that with the DF every instrument or voice sounds a bit thin in a constricted soundstage, the instruments don't have a clear position in the soundstage and sometimes they stick together.
 Apart from these problems, the DF is very good.
  
  
 Can you confirm that?


----------



## j14mp

My dragonfly came apart today... I've unplugged it like once! Lol


----------



## TWerk

I got the DF 1.2 today, and have been listening for awhile. I'll post my impressions with my Pro 900 and D2000 sometime soon.


----------



## TWerk

Dragonfly 1.2 sounds great!


----------



## agalma

Hi all. This is a long thread, so it may be that I missed the answer somewhere. But I'm thinking of pairing the DF with KEF m500s. The cans are rated at 32 +/-15%ohm and the DF has a max output of 32.
  
 Is this pushing it? That is, will the DF generate enough power?
  
 Thanks for your input.


----------



## BenF

M500 can take maximum 30mW at 32Ohm - DF can put out a lot more.
 So no problem here.


----------



## agalma

benf said:


> M500 can take maximum 30mW at 32Ohm - DF can put out a lot more.
> So no problem here.


 
  
 I see now. Got it. Thanks!


----------



## ljperez84

Hi Guys,
  
 Looking for your opinion on this:
  
 I would be using the DrangonFly on a Macbook air 2013  (Bootcamp) with Shure SRH-840. I just use spotify and nothing else.
  
 Is it worth the extra $50 on the 1.2 version over the previous one?
  
 In any case, compared vs. the macbook air  on board dac/amp will the difference be noticeable or just marginal?
  
 I used to pair these cans with my ipad 4, but I'm selling it for economical reasons. I really think that the sound from the ipad headphone jack was noticeable better.
  
 Thanks in advance!


----------



## BenF

ljperez84 said:


> ... Is it worth the extra $50 on the 1.2 version over the previous one?
> ...


 
  
 Read here and decide yourself:
http://www.audiostream.com/content/audioquest-dragonfly-v12-usb-digital-audio-converter


----------



## ljperez84

Thanks! It was helpful, looks like the $50 are worth it....
  
 my wallet hurts....


----------



## TWerk

ljperez84 said:


> Thanks! It was helpful, looks like the $50 are worth it....
> 
> my wallet hurts....


 
 Good, when your wallet hurts you're doing things right


----------



## Geesweb

Just ordered one off of amazon!! The 1.2!! I can't wait to get it!!


----------



## robotncc

Dragonfly Altoids portable version with 1560 mA battery


----------



## Don Lehrer

robotncc said:


> Dragonfly Altoids portable version with 1560 mA battery


 
  
 What amp is that? A battery?? Where?? How does it sound?? I´m intrigued


----------



## Cotnijoe

I think he just DIYed a dragonfly into the box?


----------



## robotncc

don lehrer said:


> What amp is that? A battery?? Where?? How does it sound?? I´m intrigued


 
 Just Dragonfly + Belkin usb hub + iGo battery(include charger circuits) in the box


----------



## BenF

This cable costs less than 1$ US and works great with DF:
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/130568040450


----------



## BenF

When I put the system's volume at 0 - I can still hear music!
 Lowering volume to 0 in Foobar2000 really mutes the sound.
  
 And when I play with balance, the left channel controls nothing, but the right channel controls sound on both sides.
  
 Is this normal for DF v1.2?


----------



## sling5s

Love the Grado Magnums with Dragonfly v.2.  Really gives it a tube like warmth. 
 It's also good with my JH13pro also.  It makes it sound full and lush. 
  
 Definitely better synergy than I had with HRT Microstreamer and Meridian Explorer.
 I will say that the Meridian Explorer was a better dac but I prefer the amp section of the Dragonfly. v.2


----------



## CyberGhost

Can somebody please provide a quick summary of differences between 1.0 and 1.2? Which one is better? Especially for Grado SR225s. 80s, 90s pop, rock, euro dance music.


----------



## zerolight

Hi CyberGhost, I can't tell you the difference, but I can tell you how it sounds with Grados. It's not a great match. I have the Grado RS1i and just bought (and returned) a DF 1.2.
  
 The Grados tend to emphasise mids and treble rather well - some would say too well. Through my iPhone 5s and iPad 4 I have rather enjoyed the sound with rock music, actually most music. I think they are fabulous headphones.
  
 If you believe HeadFi you won't get the best out of your headphones without an off board DAC. So I ordered a DF 1.2 and received it last week. I've used it primarily with my Grados, but also with TPeos H200 IEMs, mostly on my iPhone and iPad, but also on the iMac. Yes it improves clarity a little, and there seems to be a little more ambience and depth. Bass notes have better definition. However, to my ears, it does this by removing some lower mids and bass. On headphones with plenty of bass this could be considered removing the flub and mud. On Grados though, it just sucks out too much mid range and low end. Bass guitar is crisper, but brighter. Treble is brighter, often piercing. Guitars sound brighter and thinner - losing too much mid range and warmth. I found it tiring to listen to. It sounded a bit scooped. Something like Norah Jones Come Away With Me sounds lovely - detailed acoustic guitar and nice vocals; but Nightrain by Guns N Roses sounds too bright, too thin. Ironically, both sound lovely without the DF, just Grado straight into the 5.
  
 The results were better with the H200s, though very subtle. They have a thicker sound to begin with, so the scouping seems to have the desired effect of cleaning things up, allowing you to hear more detail. The difference between with and without the DF was very subtle though. I probably preferred with for the H200s - the midrange and bass seem less congested, the treble seemed cleaner. 
  
 In summary, for Grados, I felt I wasn't gaining a significant amount of detail or staging, it was subtle, but there. However, I was losing too much mid and low end - they became shrill, thin, lacking in body and warmth. The H200s sounded better, a little, but I'm not sure they felt like £129 better.
  
 I posted mine back today.


----------



## sling5s

If you're asking about 1 vs 1.2 Dragonfly with Grados.  Than I would have to say 1.2.  The 1.2 is smoother, richer and more natural sounding than 1.  
 The 1 is a little more thinner and more brighter.  
  
 As for Grados, your not going to find a warmer dac/amp combo than the Dragonfly 1.2.  I had HRT Microstreamer and Meridian Explorer.  The Dragonfly 1.2 is the smoothest of the bunch followed by the Meridian.  The Microstreamer is very thin and bright. 
  
 The Dragonfly 1.2 is not thinner or brighter than the iPhone.  The Dragonfly just sounds more cleaner, with more detail, with more controlled bass (& greater impact).  
  
 If you're looking for a budget amp/dac, go with Dragonfly 1.2 and also get the Little Dot + tube amp or Vali.  Honestly, you will not find a warmer budget dac/amp than the Dragonfly 1.2.  
  
  
 edit: iPhone sounds like it tames the Grado because the sound is less clean, with more uncontrolled bass that bleeds into the midrange.  Also it does have a slight bass bump.  Personally I find the Dragonfly 1.2 smoother than the iPhone with my Grado Magnums.


----------



## zerolight

sling5s said:


> The Dragonfly 1.2 is not thinner or brighter than the iPhone.  It just sounds more cleaner, with more detail, with more controlled bass (& greater impact).


 
  
 It absolutely is much brighter, thinner, and colder than the iPhone alone - with Grado's. Not so with the TPEOS where it was an improvement, but with Grado's it was piercing and hard work. At least if your a rock fan, and if you have Grados, you probably are. The mids that the DF cleans away are the very mids we guitarists deliberately extract from our expensive valve amps. I'd be very disappointed if my guitar tone sounded as scooped as the DF+Grado combo.


----------



## sling5s

Forgot to mention, with Grado's, it's best to use TTVJ Flats with portable dac/amps or solid state amps.  The only way I would listen to Grado's with bowls is with the MAD EAR HD tube amp.  It's the only amp that is warm enough (to tame the highs) with bowl pads.


----------



## TWerk

sling5s said:


> Forgot to mention, with Grado's, it's best to use TTVJ Flats with portable dac/amps or solid state amps.  The only way I would listen to Grado's with bowls is with the MAD EAR HD tube amp.  It's the only amp that is warm enough (to tame the highs) with bowl pads.


 
  
 When I had my Grado, I liked it with the yellow sennheiser pads more than the doughnut or standard pad.


----------



## artheo

zerolight said:


> ....Yes it improves clarity a little, and there seems to be a little more ambience and depth. Bass notes have better definition. However, to my ears, it does this by removing some lower mids and bass. On headphones with plenty of bass this could be considered removing the flub and mud. On Grados though, it just sucks out too much mid range and low end. Bass guitar is crisper, but brighter. Treble is brighter, often piercing. Guitars sound brighter and thinner - losing too much mid range and warmth. I found it tiring to listen to. It sounded a bit scooped....


 
  
 I own Dragonfly v1.2 and totally agree. That's why I am selling it now.
 Voices sound thin, unnatural and lack body due to the absense of lower midrange.
 About the treble, zerolight has explained everything.
 If that matters,I listen from the DF 1.2 with Philips Fidelio X1.
  
 I don't understand all the hype about DF 1.2 as I consider it as a mediocre product regarding sound quality.


----------



## ljperez84

sling5s said:


> Forgot to mention, with Grado's, it's best to use TTVJ Flats with portable dac/amps or solid state amps.  The only way I would listen to Grado's with bowls is with the MAD EAR HD tube amp.  It's the only amp that is warm enough (to tame the highs) with bowl pads.


 

 +1 on the Grado's and SS amps. I've always wanted to try some TTVJ Flats. But last I looked they were about 35 + shipping. Pricey for what they're aren't they?
  
 interesting to see the different opinions on the DF and Grado's match. IMO the Grado's really need a SS amp to shine. I never got good results connecting them to any phone, tablet or laptop jack.


----------



## CyberGhost

Thank you zerolight and everybody else that responded to my question.
  
 It's disappointing that Dragonfly does not complement Grados well, I really like Dragonfly's size and design. Is there anything of a similar size that works well with Grado?


----------



## sling5s

I personally think if portable amp/dac is the option your shooting for, the Dragonfly 1.2 version and Merdian Explorer works well with Grados.  
 But as I said, you need to use Flat Pads when using solid state amps. 
 I don't think your going to find a warmer portable amp/dac option than the Dragonfly.  
  
 Really, if you really want something for Grados.  You need to get into tube amps.  Little Dot +  for cheap and Mad Ear HD if you got the budget.  I've had every Grado Model (just look at my profile) and every Grado amp that was supposed to have synergy with Grados (Grado RA-1, Marantz vintage amp, Mad Ear HD, Woo Audio W6, Little Dot +, Schiit Asgard 1, Violectric V200 and Vali).
  
 good luck


----------



## CyberGhost

Thanks sling5s! I think I'll take your advice and go with Dragonfly 1.2 cause I can't find anything comparable at that price with that size. I was considering Creative X-Fi Go Pro! or ASUS Xonar U3, but as I've read Dragonfly is better than them.
  
 I'm sure tube amps are fantastic, but I don't have the budget for those.
  
 Are these the flat pads you're talking about?
  
 http://www.ttvjaudio.com/TTVJ_Flat_Pads_p/aat0000100.htm


----------



## sling5s

cyberghost said:


> Thanks sling5s! I think I'll take your advice and go with Dragonfly 1.2 cause I can't find anything comparable at that price with that size. I was considering Creative X-Fi Go Pro! or ASUS Xonar U3, but as I've read Dragonfly is better than them.
> 
> I'm sure tube amps are fantastic, but I don't have the budget for those.
> 
> ...


 
 Yes they are.  They are expensive but they are worth the investment.   They will warm up your Grados.   They give you more upfront yet more warm, punchy and musical sound.


----------



## tim3320070

Sennheiser 414 pads do basically the same thing at 1/3 the price


----------



## Bostonears

tim3320070 said:


> Sennheiser 414 pads do basically the same thing at 1/3 the price


 
 I agree... as long as you don't mind the screaming yellow color.


----------



## CyberGhost

I'll get those Sennheiser 414 pads, thanks Tim.


----------



## sling5s

I found the Sennheiser 414 still more airier and brighter than the flats.  They come close but the flats give your more warmth and thicker midrange. My opinion though.


----------



## musicman7

I am wondering, can i use this as just a dac and then connect it to my matrix m-stage?


----------



## BenF

musicman7 said:


> I am wondering, can i use this as just a dac and then connect it to my matrix m-stage?


 

 Yes, it's better to use a proper amp with it.


----------



## musicman7

So i just hook up a 1/8 to 2rca and then plug that into my amp. Will there be any interference or something like that with the signal getting amped twice?


----------



## BenF

musicman7 said:


> So i just hook up a 1/8 to 2rca and then plug that into my amp. Will there be any interference or something like that with the signal getting amped twice?


 

 If you put the system volume and media player volume at 100%, DF won't amplify the signal.


----------



## Krutsch

benf said:


> If you put the system volume and media player volume at 100%, DF won't amplify the signal.


 
  
 Really?  I didn't think there was anyway to bypass the amp in the DF; I though fixed output was really just max volume.


----------



## BenF

krutsch said:


> Really?  I didn't think there was anyway to bypass the amp in the DF; I though fixed output was really just max volume.


 

http://www.audioquest.com/pdfs/dragonfly/DragonFly-FlightManual-EN.pdf
  
 "DragonFly is also capable of being employed as a traditional fixed-outputsource component (such as a CD, DVD or Blu-ray player),
 and can be connected to a standard input on a receiver or preamplifier. For this application, both the music player’s volume control and the main operating system volume control should be set to maximum. This “fixed output mode”allows your audio
 or AV system’s volume control to be in charge."


----------



## Krutsch

benf said:


> http://www.audioquest.com/pdfs/dragonfly/DragonFly-FlightManual-EN.pdf
> 
> "DragonFly is also capable of being employed as a traditional fixed-outputsource component (such as a CD, DVD or Blu-ray player),
> and can be connected to a standard input on a receiver or preamplifier. For this application, both the music player’s volume control and the main operating system volume control should be set to maximum. This “fixed output mode”allows your audio
> or AV system’s volume control to be in charge."


 
  
 Oh, yes, you are correct.  Running the output stage at unity gain is not the same thing as bypassing the amp, so I was misreading your earlier comment.  Thanks for the correction.


----------



## lofthanza

I remember I read on cnet that the df 1.1 wasnt a good match for full-sized headphones. Does the new df 1.2 have the same problem? If yes, I would be better off with the audioengine d3. Cnet gave it a very good review. They actually said its clearly better than the df 1.1
But I dont know about the df 1.2


----------



## zambie

Any of you have experience listening to both dragonfly 1.2 as well as schiit modi/ magni combination OR the meridian explorer? Your thoughts on how the dragonfly fares against the others? Trying to decide on what dac/ amp to pair with my macbook pro and monster miles davis trumpet IEMs.


----------



## thievesarmy

zambie said:


> Any of you have experience listening to both dragonfly 1.2 as well as schiit modi/ magni combination OR the meridian explorer? Your thoughts on how the dragonfly fares against the others? Trying to decide on what dac/ amp to pair with my macbook pro and monster miles davis trumpet IEMs.


 
  
 I don't know if a Dragonfly on its own is a noticeable difference from the MBP's on-board DAC. I can't really hear a difference between the 2... although, this is one of those things where I question my judgement because I'm new to this, and maybe I just haven't developed my audible "palate" enough yet, but to me they sound pretty identical. 
  
 Anyone else care to weigh-in? Would love to hear other opinions on this


----------



## caracara08

Got my DF 1.2 in today.  Plugged it in and the bass was out of control via my SE846.  I left it and went to lunch and the bass has tightened up a ton.  Sounds good.  Only problem for me is the gain is so high, I have my computer volume at 1 or 2 and its loud enough for me to use at work.  I only plan on using it with IEMs so maybe its overkill and I should try something else out.  Other than that, no complaints.  Looks and sounds good.


----------



## BenF

caracara08 said:


> Got my DF 1.2 in today.  Plugged it in and the bass was out of control via my SE846.  I left it and went to lunch and the bass has tightened up a ton.  Sounds good.  Only problem for me is the gain is so high, I have my computer volume at 1 or 2 and its loud enough for me to use at work.  I only plan on using it with IEMs so maybe its overkill and I should try something else out.  Other than that, no complaints.  Looks and sounds good.


 
 It's definitely too powerful for IEMs. Better use it as a DAC with a good amp - e.g. E12.


----------



## caracara08

benf said:


> It's definitely too powerful for IEMs. Better use it as a DAC with a good amp - e.g. E12.


 
  
 Yeah, but looking for a simple solution with minimal units to plug in.  Adding the cost of the E12 and there are other choices in that price range as well.  
  
 That being said, it does sound good.


----------



## Krutsch

caracara08 said:


> Yeah, but looking for a simple solution with minimal units to plug in.  Adding the cost of the E12 and there are other choices in that price range as well.
> 
> That being said, it does sound good.


 
  
 I use it with an E11 and that seems to be a good match for full-sized cans.  I don't bother with IEMs (plug them directly into the DF 1.2).
  
 FWIW, I was surprised how much I liked the DF with an external amp in the chain.


----------



## stefu

thievesarmy said:


> I don't know if a Dragonfly on its own is a noticeable difference from the MBP's on-board DAC. I can't really hear a difference between the 2... although, this is one of those things where I question my judgement because I'm new to this, and maybe I just haven't developed my audible "palate" enough yet, but to me they sound pretty identical.
> 
> Anyone else care to weigh-in? Would love to hear other opinions on this


 
  
 I briefly compared Dragonfly 1.0 with Modi here:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/640785/schiit-modi-usb-dac/480#post_10547316
  
 Dragonfly sounds warmer to my ears, but other than that they are very comparable in SQ.


----------



## paranoid3000

Are there any significant differences between v.1.0 and 1.2?


----------



## gyx11

Hello guys, need a little technical help here.

 Upon receiving my DF v1.2, I plugged it into my laptop's USB drive.

 Under the audio devices, I checked and found that exclusive mode was enabled by default from the Dragonfly. The Dragonfly was classified as 'speakers', and as the default device.

 In Foobar2000 however, I realized that I am unable to select any output except for DS: Speakers (Audioquest Dragonfly).

 Attempting to select either Wasapi event or push mode is met by 'Unrecoverable playback error: Unsupported stream format: 44100 Hz / 16-bit / 2 channels', or 'Unrecoverable playback error: Unsupported stream format: 96000 Hz / 16-bit / 2 channels' (depending on the file I play)

 Anyone experienced the same problem before? I don't see what I have done wrong at all. The other USB DACs I have used before did not encounter such problems.

 Edit: Using the 2 other laptops (windows 7) I have at hand, there are no such problems with the dragonfly. everything works as it should. could there be some problems with the settings of my laptop? it's running windows 8.0

 Edit2: I have found that there is no issue when I select output data format to 24bit. Eveything works perfectly that way. However, doesn't this mean that when I play 16bit tracks, it will be upsampled to 24bit, which will cause the audio quality to decrease?


----------



## RiazKhan

Hello Jude,
  
 Could you please help.
  
 Which headphones do you recommend with Audio Quest Dragonfly? Any comments on Bayer Dynamic a200p they are small as well.
  
 I have come across Sennhieser HD700/650, Hifiman HE 400/500/560 (eagerly waiting for 560's review) , V-Moda M100, LCD 2 (Ver.2).
  
 My music preference is mostly electronic, pop, hip hop. I also listen to rock, fusion, lounge music. I like music with nice heavy bass but not at the cost of overall quality of music. So a little over hint of bass would do fine with supreme quality of vocals, instruments.  
  
 i was considering FIIO e18 as i use galaxy note 3. but i was told that it is more important to have a better DAC with good headphones.
  
 a 200 p works with android, is dragonfly also compatible? does dragon fly draw power from the device or is it self powered?
  
 I look forward to your help.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Nitreb

I use the Dragonfly v. 1.0 with my Grados GS1000, and it sounds fine - No harshness or ear fatigue.
  
 Quote:


cyberghost said:


> Thank you zerolight and everybody else that responded to my question.
> 
> It's disappointing that Dragonfly does not complement Grados well, I really like Dragonfly's size and design. Is there anything of a similar size that works well with Grado?


----------



## bpcans

Good afternoon fellow head-fi'rs, first time posting on this thread. I'm presently running this setup for a hp listening station: MacBook Pro Retina 13' > Dragonfly 1.2 > AudioQuest Golden Gate 3.5 - RCA interconnect cable > Woo Audio WA6 hp amp with a SAA Endorphin power cable > Grado RS1i headphones. So here's a newbie question. Whenever I'm listening to music thru iTunes the dragonfly is always the light pink magenta color, do I have my MBP setup correctly for the Dragonfly?


----------



## Krutsch

bpcans said:


> Good afternoon fellow head-fi'rs, first time posting on this thread. I'm presently running this setup for a hp listening station: MacBook Pro Retina 13' > Dragonfly 1.2 > AudioQuest Golden Gate 3.5 - RCA interconnect cable > Woo Audio WA6 > Grado RS1i headphones. So here's a newbie question. Whenever I'm listening to music thru iTunes the dragonfly is always the light pink magenta color, do I have my MBP setup correctly for the Dragonfly?


 
  
 Go to the App Store on your MacBook Pro and look for the BitPerfect app.  That will auto-adjust the DF to match the sample rate and bit depth of your tracks.  You can do this manually with Audio MIDI Setup, but Bitperfect offers other advantages (like playback from memory and integer mode, bypassing Core Audio in Mac OS).


----------



## bpcans

krutsch said:


> Go to the App Store on your MacBook Pro and look for the BitPerfect app.  That will auto-adjust the DF to match the sample rate and bit depth of your tracks.  You can do this manually with Audio MIDI Setup, but Bitperfect offers other advantages (like playback from memory and integer mode, bypassing Core Audio in Mac OS).


 
 Thank you sir. I appreciate the info. Small world, I live Burnsville.


----------



## Krutsch

bpcans said:


> Thank you sir. I appreciate the info. Small world, I live Burnsville.


 
  
 You should come to the Minneapolis meet, next weekend at Needle Doctors (there is a thread on the topic).


----------



## sling5s

The version 2 is smooth...too smooth for me.  Let me know if anyone interested.


----------



## periofab

For those who have (had) the combination, how does the Dragonfly v1.2 pair with the senn HD 598 ? Thank you !


----------



## Krutsch

periofab said:


> For those who have (had) the combination, how does the Dragonfly v1.2 pair with the senn HD 598 ? Thank you !


 
  
 I am listening to that pairing at work, right now.  Excellent match between the two, but I like to add a FiiO E11 amp in between to give things a little more kick


----------



## periofab

krutsch said:


> I am listening to that pairing at work, right now.  Excellent match between the two, but I like to add a FiiO E11 amp in between to give things a little more kick


 

 I am very curious, could you try to precise what you feel this combination brings to the sound of these headphones ? And what kind of music dou yo listen to with it ?


----------



## Krutsch

periofab said:


> I am very curious, could you try to precise what you feel this combination brings to the sound of these headphones ? And what kind of music dou yo listen to with it ?


 
  
 I listen to a wide variety of music, but in general, the Senn HD 598 has a nice mid range, reasonable clarity and detail without fatigue.  I added the amp, frankly, because I felt that with the Dragonfly along, the music lacked weight (and volume, when I wanted to play it loud).
  
 Hope that helps...


----------



## KH0300

Wow. That DAC is so small. Awesome.
  
 Nice review.


----------



## periofab

krutsch said:


> I listen to a wide variety of music, but in general, the Senn HD 598 has a nice mid range, reasonable clarity and detail without fatigue.  I added the amp, frankly, because I felt that with the Dragonfly along, the music lacked weight (and volume, when I wanted to play it loud).
> 
> Hope that helps...


 
 It does, thanks ! I plan to get a usb DAC, and so far I'm considering the AQ Dragonfly, HRT microstreamer and Meridian Explorer... So trying to gather information and the feelings of those who experienced these combinations with the HD 598.


----------



## bpcans

I think I am finally figuring out this Dragofly audiophile headphone thing. Bitperfect software is automatically upsampling my cd's ripped to apple lossless files at a rate of 88200 Hz and now my Dragonfly is showing amber.


----------



## Krutsch

bpcans said:


> I think I am finally figuring out this Dragofly audiophile headphone thing. Bitperfect software is automatically upsampling my cd's ripped to apple lossless files at a rate of 88200 Hz and now my Dragonfly is showing amber.


 
  
 You can adjust/control that behavior in Bitperfect.  Try experimenting to see if you like the effect on or off and with Linear or Minimum phase filters (that's adjustable in Bitperfect, as well).


----------



## bpcans

krutsch said:


> You can adjust/control that behavior in Bitperfect.  Try experimenting to see if you like the effect on or off and with Linear or Minimum phase filters (that's adjustable in Bitperfect, as well).


So your saying Krutsch that I should just play with it a little bit and see what I like better?


----------



## JediGhostdog

I have been researching DACs and Amps and I am looking at the Dragonfly 1.2 or Fiio E17. Anyone know how the E17s DAC is compared to Dragonfly? Also is there a substantial and noticeable difference in the smoothness from the DF to the DF1.2 like Audioquests website says. Trying to figure out if the 1.2 is worth fifty more dollars.


----------



## Krutsch

bpcans said:


> So your saying Krutsch that I should just play with it a little bit and see what I like better?


 
  
 Well, that's what I have done.  You milage may vary, but I was surprised at the differences between using / not using SRC with different DACs.
  
 My belief is that the DF does benefit from up-sampling redbook or lossy tracks.


----------



## gefski

krutsch said:


> I listen to a wide variety of music, but in general, the Senn HD 598 has a nice mid range, reasonable clarity and detail without fatigue.  I added the amp, frankly, because I felt that with the Dragonfly along, the music lacked weight (and volume, when I wanted to play it loud).
> 
> Hope that helps...




Krutsch, off topic for this thread, but notice similarities between your chain and mine. Specifically, mLink--love this usb interface, wondering if you think ifi improves it at all. mLink is supposed to have excellent power regulation already.
Thanks


----------



## Krutsch

gefski said:


> Krutsch, off topic for this thread, but notice similarities between your chain and mine. Specifically, mLink--love this usb interface, wondering if you think ifi improves it at all. mLink is supposed to have excellent power regulation already.
> Thanks


 
  
 The mLink does have excellent power handling and I don't think the iUSBPower adds anything there.  I did some ad-hoc comparisons and really couldn't hear any difference.
  
 I'm with you on the Bel Canto mLink - the most significant impact as compared with everything else I've added to my rig, other than new headphones.  It really is all about clean power and low-noise, accurate clocks.  You can find them online now for $199.00 and at that price it's an absolute steal.
  
 I've removed the iUSBPower from my head-fi rig and moved it to my 2-channel system, between my MacBook and the integrated amp's DAC module.  Made a nice difference there, but it's subtle.


----------



## bflatfinesse

I just recently got mine.  The Dragonfly paired with Audirvana Plus results in very impressive sound quality!


----------



## Krutsch

bflatfinesse said:


> I just recently got mine.  The Dragonfly paired with Audirvana Plus results in very impressive sound quality!


 
  
 Congrats.  Think about pairing your new Dragonfly with an out-board amp; even something inexpensive, like a FiiO E11 (what I like with the DF).  Night and day for me and my ears.


----------



## JediGhostdog

krutsch said:


> Congrats.  Think about pairing your new Dragonfly with an out-board amp; even something inexpensive, like a FiiO E11 (what I like with the DF).  Night and day for me and my ears.


 

 Would you recommend a similar setup to this ^ (usb dac with separate amp) as opposed to buying a more expensive desktop DAC with a built in amp? Right now I only have MDr V6 and Dt 770 80 ohm but I am planning to upgrade at some point to something more along the lines of an HD 600 headpone.


----------



## bflatfinesse

It really depends on the individual equipment you are thinking about buying more than the comparison of separate vs built in amp.  I currently use the Dragonfly with the Little Dot Mk V, a solid state amplifier, and I get great results. (The LD mkV works great with the HD 600 btw).  Also consider that the Dragonfly has a built in amp, which can make do until you save up for a dedicated headphone amp.  The one argument that goes for getting separate DAC and amp is that you will have more options to choose from.


----------



## Krutsch

^^ That's it... I missed the amp section in your signature.  Enjoy your pairing (I've read great things about the LD).


----------



## Krutsch

jedighostdog said:


> Would you recommend a similar setup to this ^ (usb dac with separate amp) as opposed to buying a more expensive desktop DAC with a built in amp? Right now I only have MDr V6 and Dt 770 80 ohm but I am planning to upgrade at some point to something more along the lines of an HD 600 headpone.


 
  
 Not if portability matters to you.  I use my DF with a FiiO E11 when I am traveling w/ my MacBook.  It's a very portable setup that also lets me use the same E11 amp with my HTC One or iPod 5.5 gen.  I like to mix it up with my gear so, for me, the E11 is all about flexibility and portability; oh yeah, and it's like $US 50 which is a great value IMO.
  
 You can't compare the above with a desktop setup.  Even my entry-level NuForce Icon HDP blows the portable rig out of the water - especially with the rest of the stuff connected in my sig.


----------



## JediGhostdog

I don't see myself traveling with my laptop too much so I would definitely go with quality of sound for my money over portability. With a portable setup I will probably end up getting an E11 for my classic ipod. If I am looking at spending less than $350 on a desktop DAC/AMP could you recommend some models to me? Any help is much appreciated


----------



## Krutsch

jedighostdog said:


> I don't see myself traveling with my laptop too much so I would definitely go with quality of sound for my money over portability. With a portable setup I will probably end up getting an E11 for my classic ipod. If I am looking at spending less than $350 on a desktop DAC/AMP could you recommend some models to me? Any help is much appreciated


 
  
 You should check out the Head Gear section (see tab at the top) and do some reading.
  
 At that price range, the Schiit Magni and Modi combo is highly regarded by many here (I've never heard them).
  
 Another option that I've been considering myself: iFi Nano iDSD USB DAC Headphone Amp.  Either option is roughly $200.


----------



## peter123

bflatfinesse said:


> It really depends on the individual equipment you are thinking about buying more than the comparison of separate vs built in amp.  I currently use the Dragonfly with the Little Dot Mk V, a solid state amplifier, and I get great results. (The LD mkV works great with the HD 600 btw).  *Also consider that the Dragonfly has a built in amp, which can make do until you save up for a dedicated headphone amp.  The one argument that goes for getting separate DAC and amp is that you will have more options to choose from. *


 
 +1. I'd say that if you'd like to add an amp better go with one that offers a significant amount of more power that the DF.
  
 I'm running my Q701 on the DF right now and I'm pretty surprised how well it drives them. Not a huge different from the Magni actually (not even in bass impact). If one would like to just get a different soundsignature things would be different though.


----------



## cel4145

So Dragonfly DAC (not headphone amp) output question. V1 vs V1.2.

Is most of the improvement in the new version the DAC? The headphone amp is a plus to me for travel for when I just want to take my laptop, but not uber important. But for a secondary headphone setup that is movable around my house, I'd be using it with a portable amp (C&C BH or E12) or my Meier Corda Rock desktop amp (it's pretty small).


----------



## bflatfinesse

From the website: "Among the improvements, the circuitry between the DAC chip and the analog output stage has been refined to create a more direct signal path, leading to even greater transparency and immediacy. Also, the DAC’s power supply has been fortified, which gives the sound more “grip,” and even greater dynamic contrast."
  
 http://www.audioquest.com/usb_digital_analog_converter/dragonfly-dac


----------



## cel4145

bflatfinesse said:


> From the website: [COLOR=0000FF]"Among the improvements, the circuitry between the DAC chip and the analog output stage has been refined to create a more direct signal path, leading to even greater transparency and immediacy. Also, the DAC’s power supply has been fortified, which gives the sound more “grip,” and even greater dynamic contrast."[/COLOR]
> 
> http://www.audioquest.com/usb_digital_analog_converter/dragonfly-dac




Thanks! But I'm more interested in what Head-Fiers with experience with both units say over company claims in marketing prose


----------



## bflatfinesse

An excerpt from a Stereophile review: 
"The sonic differences between the original and v1.2 DragonFlys were almost as obvious as those between the Sennheiser Momentum and B&W P3 on-ear headphones. Where the original DragonFly excelled in clarity and detail, v1.2 added a richer, more colorful midrange, improved spatial abilities, and a greater sense of ease. Through the DragonFly v1.2, "Sleeping Is the Only Love" sounded thrilling and beautiful, with an awesome amount of space around the drum kit, a solidly focused center image, and overall clarity and tonal accuracy that made following guitar riffs and subtleties of drumwork a total pleasure. Best of all, though, was the v1.2's way with David Berman's simple, familiar voice: Singing "I'd crawl over 50 yards of burning coals just to make it with you," he sounded drunk and restless with desperation and love—just as he should. I believed every word of it."


----------



## cel4145

bflatfinesse said:


> An excerpt from a Stereophile review:
> [COLOR=333333]"The sonic differences between the original and v1.2 DragonFlys were almost as obvious as those between the Sennheiser Momentum and B&W P3 on-ear headphones. Where the original DragonFly excelled in clarity and detail, v1.2 added a richer, more colorful midrange, improved spatial abilities, and a greater sense of ease. Through the DragonFly v1.2, "Sleeping Is the Only Love" sounded thrilling and beautiful, with an awesome amount of space around the drum kit, a solidly focused center image, and overall clarity and tonal accuracy that made following guitar riffs and subtleties of drumwork a total pleasure. Best of all, though, was the v1.2's way with David Berman's simple, familiar voice: Singing "I'd crawl over 50 yards of burning coals just to make it with you," he sounded drunk and restless with desperation and love—just as he should. I believed every word of it."[/COLOR]




I've already read that too. I'm looking for Head-fier comments


----------



## Krutsch

cel4145 said:


> I've already read that too. I'm looking for Head-fier comments


 
  
 I upgraded to V1.2 and never took the time to A/B against V1.0 - I suspect most are in this category, which might explain the lack of comments from head-fi'ers. For me, it's more comparing my work rig (w/ DF 1.2) and my desktop rig (my signature) and there's just no comparison, for my ears and my tastes.
  
 That said, when I started using the new version, I don't recall thinking "...WOW, this is just amazing, compared to the old, stone-knives-and-bearskins version 1.0!"


----------



## cel4145

krutsch said:


> I upgraded to V1.2 and never took the time to A/B against V1.0 - I suspect most are in this category, which might explain the lack of comments from head-fi'ers. For me, it's more comparing my work rig (w/ DF 1.2) and my desktop rig (my signature) and there's just no comparison, for my ears and my tastes.
> 
> That said, when I started using the new version, I don't recall thinking "...WOW, this is just amazing, compared to the old, stone-knives-and-bearskins version 1.0!"




Thanks for the comparison. But since the setup was for music anyway, I decided to grab the DX50 for $199 today on Amazon. I'll wait on the Dragonfly.


----------



## Twinster

I'm a new owner of the DF 1.2 (nerver heard the 1.0 version) and used it at work all day yesterday and I very enjoyed it. I find it very musical and engaging with my Aurisonics ASG-2. The bass was excellent. I used to own the DACport and it's been a few months since I sold it to my friend but the DF seems more fun to me but still very detail and accurate. This is just some early impression and YMMV but so far it's a keeper for me.

Also one thing a very like it's how I can control the volume and play/pause next/back right on my keyboard. Make it very nice for work environment where I get disrupt on a regular basis.


----------



## AyeVeeN

Does anyone use this with a long extension (like 6 feet) on Windows 7? Whenever I reformat, it has an issue playing through the extension where after like a minute of playing a song, it'll emit a single beep and cut out. When replugging it in, it emits a ton of static when music or any sound is played. I disabled the USB Suspend State but that doesn't appear to be it. Can't figure out what driver it would be if it is one. Using the Asus Z87-Pro and I've installed the USB 3.0 drivers.


----------



## mrscotchguy

ayeveen said:


> Does anyone use this with a long extension (like 6 feet) on Windows 7? Whenever I reformat, it has an issue playing through the extension where after like a minute of playing a song, it'll emit a single beep and cut out. When replugging it in, it emits a ton of static when music or any sound is played. I disabled the USB Suspend State but that doesn't appear to be it. Can't figure out what driver it would be if it is one. Using the Asus Z87-Pro and I've installed the USB 3.0 drivers.




This happened to my DF1.0 on a win7 pc and win8/8.1 laptop... I used a 2 ft cheapo usb extension cable. I always thought it was just a bad cable, but the DF just might not like the long throw... 

I prefer using the Dragontail to relieve stress, and have a longer analog cable (interconnect) for connecting devices. 

Not sure how you're using your DF in your setup, but there are probably a few different solutions... my guess is your DF just isn't getting enough power from the source.


----------



## AyeVeeN

mrscotchguy said:


> This happened to my DF1.0 on a win7 pc and win8/8.1 laptop... I used a 2 ft cheapo usb extension cable. I always thought it was just a bad cable, but the DF just might not like the long throw...
> 
> I prefer using the Dragontail to relieve stress, and have a longer analog cable (interconnect) for connecting devices.
> 
> Not sure how you're using your DF in your setup, but there are probably a few different solutions... my guess is your DF just isn't getting enough power from the source.


 
  
 I actually just found out the issue / solution. Intel's USB 3.0 extensible Controller Driver seems to have many issues. Uninstalled it and it's working perfectly. Previously it used to mess with my external hard drives until they updated it. Now it's just completely uninstalled though and I'm letting Windows handle the USB 3.0 drivers.
  
 I'm running my DF to the back of my amp, which is next to my speakers, since I take it on the go occasionally. Don't want to put it behind the case because it'll be a PITA to remove and replace over and over again. They're basically about 4~5 feet away from my tower and above my desk rather than below my desk.


----------



## Twinster

Hey guys. I set my DF to 24 bit / 96 in Windows playback sound panel and when I play music from Foobar2000 of 16/ 44.1 it stays at the magenta color ( 24/96). I was expecting the DF to auto set the proper playback rate. Am I doing something wrong? My previous DAC ( DACport) did auto set the rate.

Thanks


----------



## BenF

twinster said:


> Hey guys. I set my DF to 24 bit / 96 in Windows playback sound panel and when I play music from Foobar2000 of 16/ 44.1 it stays at the magenta color ( 24/96). I was expecting the DF to auto set the proper playback rate. Am I doing something wrong? My previous DAC ( DACport) did auto set the rate.
> 
> Thanks


 

 I think the music is being upsampled.


----------



## Twinster

benf said:


> I think the music is being upsampled.


 
 That is what i figured out but even the  Audioquest manual recommend to set to proper rate. This should be automatic not a manual setting. When a play music in random it's impossible to change or monitor the playback rate.


----------



## BenF

twinster said:


> That is what i figured out but even the  Audioquest manual recommend to set to proper rate. This should be automatic not a manual setting. When a play music in random it's impossible to change or monitor the playback rate.


 

 Ideally you your library would be at the same sample rate, so you could set it and forget it.
 Usually, that's not the case, so you should just keep it at the highest setting.


----------



## bpcans

benf said:


> Ideally you your library would be at the same sample rate, so you could set it and forget it.
> Usually, that's not the case, so you should just keep it at the highest setting.


I too was perplexed by the amount of setup the DF required in getting the proper playback rate for my music library. But after reading the DF directions from the manual and online and getting input from head-fi member "Krutsch" I was able to figure out the EQ that I liked the best. BenF, what are you using for a source/DAP?


----------



## BenF

bpcans said:


> I too was perplexed by the amount of setup the DF required in getting the proper playback rate for my music library. But after reading the DF directions from the manual and online and getting input from head-fi member "Krutsch" I was able to figure out the EQ that I liked the best. BenF, what are you using for a source/DAP?


 

 Foobar2000


----------



## Whippler

twinster said:


> Hey guys. I set my DF to 24 bit / 96 in Windows playback sound panel and when I play music from Foobar2000 of 16/ 44.1 it stays at the magenta color ( 24/96). I was expecting the DF to auto set the proper playback rate. Am I doing something wrong? My previous DAC ( DACport) did auto set the rate.
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 I'll just repost this here....
  


whippler said:


> With foobar you can make it automatic, by by passing the windows own audio drivers. Install this component:
> http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_out_wasapi
> in foobar go file -> preferences -> output
> from the device dropdown select WASAPI Event (Dragonfly...)
> ...


----------



## bpcans

whippler said:


> I'll just repost this here....


Whippler, even though I use a MacBook Pro with an iTunes library, thanks for reposting the DF info about the Foobar2000. Very useful!


----------



## Twinster

whippler said:


> I'll just repost this here....


 
  
 Thank you for posting the great information. I'm pretty sure I did tried WASAPI but I'll retry tomorrow at work. Thanks again!


----------



## orb2k

bpcans said:


> Whippler, even though I use a MacBook Pro with an iTunes library, thanks for reposting the DF info about the Foobar2000. Very useful!


 
 I wish there was a Foobar2000 for the Apple stratosphere. Sucks that I have to load VM Windows just for audio collections.


----------



## Krutsch

bpcans said:


> Whippler, even though I use a MacBook Pro with an iTunes library, thanks for reposting the DF info about the Foobar2000. Very useful!


 
  
@bpcans - BTW, did you get things worked out with Bitperfect on your Mac?  I personally use Audirvana+, but that's a commitment (expensive and a lot of knobs and dials), so I mostly recommend Bitperfect to folks that getting started with outboard DACs, et al on a Mac.


----------



## bpcans

krutsch said:


> @bpcans
> - BTW, did you get things worked out with Bitperfect on your Mac?  I personally use Audirvana+, but that's a commitment (expensive and a lot of knobs and dials), so I mostly recommend Bitperfect to folks that getting started with outboard DACs, et al on a Mac.


Bitperfect turned out to be easier than I thought, almost intuitive with the Mac. What are the advantages of Audirvana+, and how much of a financial commitment are you talking about? Is there that much of a noticeable increase in the quality of the sound to justify the cost? I had to get VOX so I could play high-res files.


----------



## Twinster

whippler said:


> I'll just repost this here....




BTW it's working fine now. I did tried with Wasapi and it worked the rate changed automatically but I was earring static noise randomly ( using the DF on a power hub) so I changed to KS and the rate change also and it sound good. Thank you!


----------



## Krutsch

bpcans said:


> Bitperfect turned out to be easier than I thought, almost intuitive with the Mac. What are the advantages of Audirvana+, and how much of a financial commitment are you talking about? Is there that much of a noticeable increase in the quality of the sound to justify the cost? I had to get VOX so I could play high-res files.


 
  
 I've been off-line for a few days... work 
  
 Audrivana+ provides a couple of advantages: 1) you can use AU/VST plug-ins to provide EQ'ing or Surround Processing, among other things; 2) you have fine grained control over the sample rate conversion an filtering parameters, so you can do more than just switch between linear and minimum phase filters.  2) is sort of a tinkering thing, but 1) is huge.  I've purchased some EQ plug-ins from Voxengo and it really helps with poorly mastered music.
  
 As far as improvements in SQ, I don't know.  To be honest, I'm not sure I could pass a DBT between Bitperfect and A+ using the same music at the same sample rate, with no EQ'ing, etc.  However, many of the folks over at Computeraudiophile.com rave about the improvements in sound quality.  Then again, those folks describe H-U-G-E improvements in SQ based on using an SD card to host their music files, as opposed to the SSD drive built into their Macs.
  
 As always, YMMV...


----------



## bpcans

Thanks Krutsch.


----------



## miyamoto

Will this be able to power a logitech Z623 or  is it only for headphones?This to laptop then 3.5mm out to Z623?


----------



## BA_D_R

I just bought the dragonfly 1.2
 I don't have much of experince about DAC/AMP.
 I'm facing something strange, yet it can be noraml, so I hope anyone can verify it.
  
 when i'm playing some sound test files I noticed some sort of noise at the max volume, one of the most obvious frequency is the 16000hz (16Khz) file https://www.dropbox.com/s/pwgkfpsniuhcbu2/16000hz.wav
  
 I'm using windows 7 64-bit and playing throw  foobar2000 using WASAPI event.
 windows volume is set to max so as foobar2000.
 the noise is so obvious between 0dB and -3dB, and a little bit of noise between -3dB and -4dB.
 I have only one headphone ATH-M50 (impedance 38ohm).
 please download the test file from here https://www.dropbox.com/s/pwgkfpsniuhcbu2/16000hz.wav
  
  
*Is that normal or I got a bad (dysfunctional) Dragonfly 1.2?*
  
 I bough it from *Crutchfield* (Audioquest authorized dealer)
  
 the dragonfly is connected to USB3.0 which is capable of delivering 900mA.
 I tried it on my PC and my laptop with the same result.
  
 Another thing, is it advisable to set WASAPI (Hardware buffer event mode) to 0, or it doesn't matter https://www.dropbox.com/s/hob9ntqvyq2u9ur/foobar2000%20setting.jpg
  
 I already own Asus Xonar ST, and I think the Dragonfly 1.2 is better than it, later I will post an update.
  
 Thank you...


----------



## bpcans

ba_d_r said:


> I just bought the dragonfly 1.2
> I don't have much of experince about DAC/AMP.
> I'm facing something strange, yet it can be noraml, so I hope anyone can verify it.
> 
> ...


BA_D_R, great choice on the DF1.2. It's a good portable DAC. Enjoy your music my friend.


----------



## BA_D_R

bpcans said:


> BA_D_R, great choice on the DF1.2. It's a good portable DAC. Enjoy your music my friend.


 
 bpcans, yes i'm so happy with the DF, my Asus Xonar ST (throw headphone jack, No Gain setting, ASIO) is not loud enough with my ATH-M50
 but the DF is loud enough IMHO.
 I wish if someone can download the sound test file and try it on his/her own DF to confirm my situation.
 Because I'm a kind of guys who buy the things and use it for many years, so I want to be sure that all my gears are optimal, i'm just listening to lossless files, via headphone, so I never use any more features.


----------



## Rearwing

I have both the Dragonfly 1.2 and the E17, if I am using my MacBook Pro in my study, I tend to use the optical out into the E17 as a DAC that then goes into my Marantz Amp. However, if I am on the road then I use the Dragonfly straight into my HD600's. Obviously this gives me two signature sounds, but, I am more than happy to use the DF and the Sennheiser's at length when I am writing up reports and chilling after work stuck in a hotel room. I also like using the DF in my MacBook if I am catching up on downloads from iPlayer late at night sitting next to Mrs Rearwing.


----------



## Krutsch

ba_d_r said:


> I just bought the dragonfly 1.2
> I don't have much of experince about DAC/AMP.
> I'm facing something strange, yet it can be noraml, so I hope anyone can verify it.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I had an issue with my 1.0 DF and Audioquest replaced the unit with a new one.  Later, I bought the 1.2 version.  I have run at max volume (or what is supposed to be line-level out) with both external amps and headphones (especially HD 650s).
  
 If you are hearing obvious distortion, you should try connecting to something else (i.e. external amp or another pair of phones).  If you still hear it, then call Audioquest and arrange for a replacement.  You should NOT hear any distortion from the DF 1.2.


----------



## MustelaNivalis

Here are the results of the Dutch jury concerning the combination of Schiit Wyrd and AudioQuest DragonFly: Cleaner sound with more separation in the finer details. Increased fluidity and a wider sound stage. More definition and punch in the low frequencies. But before, my DragonFly had to completely surrender to the computer's power-supply with little room for capacitors in the small housing. I think it is all in giving the DragonFly a decent power-supply for the first time in its existence.


----------



## BA_D_R

Please anyone who have a DragonFly 1.2  ,,,, do me a favor please:
  
  
 download this wav file,
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vbjmvg7roniwe5r/16000Hz.wav
  
 Its 16000Hz (16KHz) sound file, play it throw DragonFly 1.2 and at your player (ex. foobar) move the volume to max also in windows too, and check if you hear any kind of noise.
 the file length is only 5 seconds so it's better if you make the player repeating it.
  
 Here you can download a video that I did record that is showing the noise that i'm suffering from.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/re93aq3z4iaci3e/VID-20140729-WA0000.mp4


----------



## Archimago

BA_D_R:
 Just had a listen to that 16kHz tone with the Dragonfly 1.2 using 62-ohm Sony MDR-V6 and also 300-ohm Sennheiser HD800.
  
 Sounds fine with both. No unusual distortion/noise, just annoying high pitched tone 
  
 I managed to borrow this unit from my friend, ran some measurements and wrote a review:
  
http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2014/08/measurements-audioquest-dragonfly-v12.html
  
 Not bad. It puts up some decent numbers and sound quite good...


----------



## BA_D_R

archimago said:


> BA_D_R:
> Just had a listen to that 16kHz tone with the Dragonfly 1.2 using 62-ohm Sony MDR-V6 and also 300-ohm Sennheiser HD800.
> 
> Sounds fine with both. No unusual distortion/noise, just annoying high pitched tone
> ...


 
  
 Archimago:
 Thank you so much for replying, my Dragonfly 1.2 have that noise with my Ultrasone Signature DJ too, I already got RMA number from AudioQuest.
 Thanks again,, Cheers!


----------



## mark5hs

rearwing said:


> I have both the Dragonfly 1.2 and the E17, if I am using my MacBook Pro in my study, I tend to use the optical out into the E17 as a DAC that then goes into my Marantz Amp. However, if I am on the road then I use the Dragonfly straight into my HD600's. Obviously this gives me two signature sounds, but, I am more than happy to use the DF and the Sennheiser's at length when I am writing up reports and chilling after work stuck in a hotel room. I also like using the DF in my MacBook if I am catching up on downloads from iPlayer late at night sitting next to Mrs Rearwing.


 
  
 Have you tried pairing the dragonfly with the E17 and bypassing the E17 DAC?


----------



## Hi-Fi Guy

How would the DF 1.2 compare to the schiit modi/magni stack in terms of sound quality. I have a MacBook Pro.


----------



## stefu

hi-fi guy said:


> How would the DF 1.2 compare to the schiit modi/magni stack in terms of sound quality. I have a MacBook Pro.




I compared Dragonfly 1.0 with Modi both with Little Dot MkIV and HD650. In this setup, DF as a DAC only sounded almost the same as Modi. I'd expect Magni to be better than DF with demanding headphones, but I've never tested it.
I used Mac Mini as a source.
I don't know how much different 1.2 is.


----------



## XLR8

Ok,
 I have the v1.0 dragonfly and the v1.2 dragonfly on Windows 7 with wasapi audio driver outputting at 24bit 96Khz.
 I have compared the two and the following can be said:
  
 * v1.0 has more bottom end and is fuller and more punchier
 * v1.0 is warmer and more analog sounding
 * v1.2 has up top clarity and detail with more zing
 * v1.2 has less punch on the bottom end and is more digital sounding
  
 Which you prefer is up to personal taste but I hope this helps others.
 I personally enjoy both of them


----------



## XLR8

artheo said:


> I own Dragonfly v1.2 and totally agree. That's why I am selling it now.
> Voices sound thin, unnatural and lack body due to the absense of lower midrange.
> About the treble, zerolight has explained everything.
> If that matters,I listen from the DF 1.2 with Philips Fidelio X1.
> ...


 

 Exactly my sentiments after more listening and comparison.
 The v1.0 is beautiful sounding and has the bottom end and analog sound and punch I love.
 The v1.2 is brighter/detailed(no question about it) at the expense of the bottom end.
  
 They sound like mirror images of each other where one focuses its output on the upper mid bass(v1.0) the other focuses it on the lower high frequency(v1.2).
 However,  I would not sell either at this stage.


----------



## lalala6

xlr8 said:


> Ok,
> I have the v1.0 dragonfly and the v1.2 dragonfly on Windows 7 with wasapi audio driver outputting at 24bit 96Khz.
> I have compared the two and the following can be said:
> 
> ...


 
 I have the v1.0 and v1.2 too and I agree with your impressions. When I compared them I heard a slight difference but wasn't sure how to describe it, your impressions really hit the nail on its head.
  
 I bought the v1.2 hoping for a direct improvement to the sound signature of the v1.0 which I love but, oh well.


----------



## mrscotchguy

lalala6 said:


> I have the v1.0 and v1.2 too and I agree with your impressions. When I compared them I heard a slight difference but wasn't sure how to describe it, your impressions really hit the nail on its head.
> 
> I bought the v1.2 hoping for a direct improvement to the sound signature of the v1.0 which I love but, oh well.
> 
> ...




I lost my 1.0 in my recent move... like to get another one soon, but I've heard some rumors that I can't talk about that would make me think twice about a purchase any time soon... :evil:


----------



## Krutsch

lalala6 said:


> I have the v1.0 and v1.2 too and I agree with your impressions. When I compared them I heard a slight difference but wasn't sure how to describe it, your impressions really hit the nail on its head.
> 
> *I bought the v1.2 hoping for a direct improvement to the sound signature of the v1.0 which I love but, oh well.*


 
  
 I have both, as well, and think it might be time for an A/B comparison, which I never did when I purchased the new version.  I find it very difficult to A/B things that require a lot of switch-over time.  I can't say I am in love with the sound of my DF, but I use it at work where I am not really 'actively listening' to music.


----------



## mrscotchguy

krutsch said:


> I have both, as well, and think it might be time for an A/B comparison, which I never did when I purchased the new version.  I find it very difficult to A/B things that require a lot of switch-over time.  I can't say I am in love with the sound of my DF, but I use it at work where I am not really 'actively listening' to music.




The dragonfly has always been too loud for me as an amp. I usually cannot go much further past a few notches before it's at ear bleeding levels for me. That said, I do listen to a much lower volume than most.

The strength of the DF is its dac capabilities. It has some pretty top notch performance for the dollar. I bought mine for just under $200 before the initial price cut even beforw AQ announced the 1.2 version. I don't have buyer's reporse since it absolutely out perforned my bifrost in every area...

I think with a bit of tweaking, the DF, could sound better as an amp, but they almost need to implement the volume/gain differently, imho, of course.


----------



## lalala6

mrscotchguy said:


> I lost my 1.0 in my recent move... like to get another one soon, but I've heard some rumors that I can't talk about that would make me think twice about a purchase any time soon...


 
 What rumors? Mind telling me about it


----------



## mrscotchguy

lalala6 said:


> What rumors? Mind telling me about it




Check your PM


----------



## lalala6

mrscotchguy said:


> The dragonfly has always been too loud for me as an amp. I usually cannot go much further past a few notches before it's at ear bleeding levels for me. That said, I do listen to a much lower volume than most.
> 
> The strength of the DF is its dac capabilities. It has some pretty top notch performance for the dollar. I bought mine for just under $200 before the initial price cut even beforw AQ announced the 1.2 version. I don't have buyer's reporse since it absolutely out perforned my bifrost in every area...
> 
> I think with a bit of tweaking, the DF, could sound better as an amp, but they almost need to implement the volume/gain differently, imho, of course.


 
 Strange, the volume has always been just right for me. I could get the volume to 30/100 on the Windows volume slider even on my most sensitive IEMs, 60/100 for many of my full size cans, and 100 on my 300 ohm HD650. Perhaps the DF's volume/gain control works differently depending on the computer used, or I just listen too loud lol.
  
 I absolutely agree though that it is top notch as a DAC. When paired with my E12DIY I am often amazed at how much resolution and transparency the DF brings. Surprised to read that the DF outperforms even the Bifrost, I've never heard the Bifrost but I always thought that it's supposed to be better than the DF because of its higher price point. Well, makes my purchase of the DF even more worth it I guess!


----------



## lalala6

krutsch said:


> I have both, as well, and think it might be time for an A/B comparison, which I never did when I purchased the new version.  I find it very difficult to A/B things that require a lot of switch-over time.  I can't say I am in love with the sound of my DF, but I use it at work where I am not really 'actively listening' to music.


 
 The difference between them is so minute, I was hard pressed to tell them apart in the first 30 minutes of listening. I'd say the difference is 5% at most.
  
 That being said, having spent considerable time with the 1.2 I could make out a few more differences:
  
 - The mids on 1.2 are more natural, especially noticeable in the vocals. The vocals on 1.0 could sometimes sound a little honky and unnatural, but never on the 1.2
 - The 1.2 has a slightly more refined treble.
 - In terms of frequency balance, the 1.2 is definitely the more neutral of the two. Unlike the 1.0, the 1.2 has no mid bass bloat, the bass is more in line with the other frequencies and as a result sound more neutral. The bass doesn't grab attention on the 1.2 as the 1.0 sometimes do, but you can more easily hear bass texture and details on the 1.2, which is a plus.
 - The overall sound presentation on the 1.2 is more relaxed compared the 1.0. While the 1.0 can sound like it's trying hard to push the music out, on the 1.2 music just flows and seems more at ease.
  
 It seems that I am starting to like the 1.2 sound... Now I'm in a dilemma whether I should keep the 1.2... (I will have to let go of either one, can't keep both)


----------



## RUMAY408

I like the DF a lot, but more as a DAC than an amp.  I really think that every one who uses this for better HP's (150+ ohm) adding even a low end amp (I've used a FiiO E11)  can really benefit from the added output.


----------



## Krutsch

rumay408 said:


> I like the DF a lot, but more as a DAC than an amp.  I really think that every one who uses this for better HP's (150+ ohm) adding even a low end amp (I've used a FiiO E11)  can really benefit from the added output.


 
  
 +1 ... my daily work rig is now exactly that combo: DF 1.2 + FiiO E11 and I think it sounds great.


----------



## XLR8

lalala6 said:


> The difference between them is so minute, I was hard pressed to tell them apart in the first 30 minutes of listening. I'd say the difference is 5% at most.
> It seems that I am starting to like the 1.2 sound... Now I'm in a dilemma whether I should keep the 1.2... (I will have to let go of either one, can't keep both)


 
 Agreed, the differences are subtle but if you have excellent headphones (I have Grado's) then the differences are audible.
  
 I swap the v1.0 and v1.2 and I like both although initially I liked the v1.0 and still do cause it punches like nothing else I have heard before.
 However, the v1.0 is not as well supported as v1.2
 The v1.2 I can run on my LG G2 with OTG cable and usb audio plus app. I have found though that the google music app is as good as the dragonfly around about 1-2% less but liveable as the drain of the usb on the phone is obvious. The v1.0 does not work in this config.
  
 Also, the v1.0 you cannot select 88.2, 48, 44.1 on wasapi whilst with v1.2 you can select these outputs but on my comparisons I am always using 24/96Khz output and this sounds the best from this amazing little async usb. The color of magenta is better on the v1.0 whereas on the v1.2 its washed out in colors too.
  
 Will keep them both but what's this secrecy of a new version appearing?


----------



## nbakid2000

never mind, fixed it. I (too) guess it upsamples to 24 bit when playing 16 bit files with WASAPI?


----------



## XLR8

Correct to above ^^ check color of dragonfly 
  
 I have started to enjoy the v1.2 more now than the v1.0
 There seems to be a lot more natural tone in the mid-range compared with the v1.0
  
 Also the v1.2 changed after 50hrs burn in and the tone became more natural and bass was distanced well from the mid-range.
 The v1.0 still has more bottom end analog sounding but each version is different in their own way.


----------



## MichaelJames99

Does anyone use the 1.2 for movies from a laptop.  If so, are you using Razer, Out of your Head or some other software to generated simulated surround from streaming movies?
  
 I get mine on Monday.  I was told I cant run Razer surround and the 1.2 at the same time.


----------



## NonXtreme

I just got dragonfly 1.2 to use with my laptop. And today I heard distortion when playing song that have high freq sound no matter how high or low the windows main volume is. But the distortion completely gone when I lower the application volume slider (WMP, Foobar2000) ,which actually control the individual application volume in windows mixer. Also try wasapi and asio4all in foobar2000 and the distortion is still there.
I used windows 8.1 64bit with latest update.

Please Help! THANK!


----------



## Travelbug

been away a while, but i recently got myself a df 1.2. im trying to make it work with wasapi in fb2000 but is seems like it will not go to 16 bit? so will the df not work in wasapi mode with 16bit files ?


----------



## jeffbear7

I actually have a situation with the DF 1.2 and MplayerX that I am not sure if it's normal. So when playing video files off MplayerX on my mac, most of the time, the DF makes it sound distorted. This includes anime, music videos, movies, etc.  When I play the video off the mac headphone port, theres no distortion at all. I originally had a DF 1.0 which did the same exact thing, and so I returned that and was able to get DF 1.2 which did that too. When playing music off iTunes though, it was okay. The issue itself probably lies with MplayerX actually, but have you guys ever experienced that? I couldn't find out why MplayerX did that with DF1.2, and I even made sure my MplayerX was updated.


----------



## stefu

Can you tell more about what kind of distortion it is?
  
 If it is digital it may be because mplayerX is sending data with different sample rate than your Dragonfly is set to.
  
 Open "Audio Midi Setup" it is in /Applications/Utilities
 Choose DragonFly from the side panel and play with Format setting. Movies are usually in '48000.0 Hz'. Another possibility is that mplayerX is feeding Dragonfly with undecoded stream which Dragonfly is not able to decode. I don't know maplayerX enough to suggest settings (I used to use it long time ago under Linux).
  
 As an alternative, try VLC player and Apple's own QuickTime.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## XLR8

Never had distortion with mine(V1 and v1.2) but then again I am not using mac and never have.
 I would recommend what stefu suggested.
  
 Good luck.


----------



## mrscotchguy

travelbug said:


> been away a while, but i recently got myself a df 1.2. im trying to make it work with wasapi in fb2000 but is seems like it will not go to 16 bit? so will the df not work in wasapi mode with 16bit files ?




Correct. The DF is rated only as 24-bit depth. You either manually need to change it to 24 or skip WASAPI.

Another course is to download asio4all. It works greay with foobar and I noticed a slight improvement in sound...


----------



## Travelbug

mrscotchguy said:


> Correct. The DF is rated only as 24-bit depth. You either manually need to change it to 24 or skip WASAPI.
> 
> Another course is to download asio4all. It works greay with foobar and I noticed a slight improvement in sound...


 
 so dragonfly upscales 16 to 24 bit? wont there be some kind of sound degradation doing this? maybe the reason why asia4all sounds better for you. but afaik, many more people prefer wasapi over asia sq, but like i said , ive been away for awhile so my knowledge isnt exactly mint.


----------



## Krutsch

travelbug said:


> so dragonfly upscales 16 to 24 bit? wont there be some kind of sound degradation doing this? maybe the reason why asia4all sounds better for you. but afaik, many more people prefer wasapi over asia sq, but like i said , ive been away for awhile so my knowledge isnt exactly mint.




No. All you are doIng is padding the least significant bits with zeros from 16 to 24. Absolutely no change in sound.

Btw, many DACs have a similar requirement and the padding is done outside of the DF.


----------



## doublezz

benf said:


> When I put the system's volume at 0 - I can still hear music!
> Lowering volume to 0 in Foobar2000 really mutes the sound.
> 
> *And when I play with balance, the left channel controls nothing, but the right channel controls sound on both sides.*
> ...


 
  
 My DF v1.2 behaves the same (tested on Win8.1).
 Can anyone here test if the Left/Right balance works separately? just to confirm that my DF is not from a bad batch.


----------



## surja

Is the Dragonfly 1.2 compatible with any android phone?


----------



## XLR8

surja said:


> Is the Dragonfly 1.2 compatible with any android phone?



Needs audio player not free to work. Plus battery is shot when running the dragonfly.


----------



## surja

Any specific audio player app? Do you need any external power source?


----------



## XLR8

Usb audio player. 
No external power source.


----------



## Writers Quill

I got a dragonfly 1.2 and when I stop or pause the sound it misses the first few seconds of the audio when restarting a song or video. It almost acts as if it was asleep. It is lit up and getting power and my other USB sound cards don't do that when I use them on the same PC and ports. Any suggestions?


----------



## mogulmaster

i bought this dac for work with my amperiors. Really quality sound I was very surprised. Definitely quite a bit better than my E17. I'll also be using it at home now with the LCDs until I get a better desktop rig for them. But very satisfied with this purchase.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Can this be used in conjunction with an external amp?


----------



## Bostonears

guidostrunk said:


> Can this be used in conjunction with an external amp?


 
 Sure. Just set the Dragonfly volume to max and it becomes fixed output for external devices. See explanation at http://www.audioquest.com/usb_digital_analog_converter/faqs.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Thanks for the info 


bostonears said:


> Sure. Just set the Dragonfly volume to max and it becomes fixed output for external devices. See explanation at http://www.audioquest.com/usb_digital_analog_converter/faqs.


----------



## Insatiable One

Audioquest Dragonfly V2 vs FireStone Audio BlackKey
 pros and cons of both and which is better
 GO!
  
 I'll tell you this right now though, the BlackKey was originally $100, and now it's $30!!!


----------



## wavid

surja said:


> Is the Dragonfly 1.2 compatible with any android phone?


 

 Actually with Android 5.0 they are bringing USB Audio support so any phone/tablet that gets 5.0 should work with this.


----------



## Bostonears

wavid said:


> Actually with Android 5.0 they are bringing USB Audio support so any phone/tablet that gets 5.0 should work with this.


 
 Android L (5.0) OS will support USB audio output, but not every existing Android 4.x device has the right hardware support. The feature has to be enabled by the device OEM and/or chipset maker. For some 4.x devices, it will work straight away. For others, the OEM might need to tweak their version of Android 5.0. And for other devices, it simply won't work because the hardware isn't configured for it.
  
This post by Head-Fier DanBa has a list of Android devices that already work with USB Audio (pre-Android L), as well as a list of DACs (including Dragonfly!) that are known to work with Android L.


----------



## reddington

Is the Dragonfly's amp section sufficient to drive the HD 650 directly?
Need a stopgap before I can invest on a proper headphone amp. The headphone out of my integrated CA Azur 640a v2 does an OK job. Some songs sound fine and some terrible.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm curious as to why I lost so much volume using Note3> OTG>DF>iCan>HD650, compared to using the HPO on my note3? 1 o'clock on my ican from the HPO is almost double the loudness from the DF. Can anyone explain? 
BTW,the DF absolutely blows away the note3 internals. Night and day difference to my ears.


----------



## Krutsch

reddington said:


> Is the Dragonfly's amp section sufficient to drive the HD 650 directly?
> Need a stopgap before I can invest on a proper headphone amp. The headphone out of my integrated CA Azur 640a v2 does an OK job. Some songs sound fine and some terrible.


 

 My opinion, having HD 650s and a DragonFly: No. Technically, it will work and you will hear music and it will sound fine. But I added a FiiO E12K and the difference was night and day. BTW, I experienced a similar result with the HD 598, as well. The DF just sounds better with an external amp.
  
 Again, YMMV.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Is it possible that the output power from my note3 through otg> DF , is weaker than the HPO on my note3? It's like the DF is choking my icans output power by half. 





guidostrunk said:


> I'm curious as to why I lost so much volume using Note3> OTG>DF>iCan>HD650, compared to using the HPO on my note3? 1 o'clock on my ican from the HPO is almost double the loudness from the DF. Can anyone explain?
> BTW,the DF absolutely blows away the note3 internals. Night and day difference to my ears.


----------



## reddington

krutsch said:


> My opinion, having HD 650s and a DragonFly: No. Technically, it will work and you will hear music and it will sound fine. But I added a FiiO E12K and the difference was night and day. BTW, I experienced a similar result with the HD 598, as well. The DF just sounds better with an external amp.
> 
> Again, YMMV.




Thanks for the response. But figured it out. The Dragonfly feeding the Azur now seems a very decent combo. Actually loving the sound off my 650 now.

I got my HD 650 used. Its around 2 years old but the previous owner being more into speakers hardly used it. It was packed away for the last one year.

So possibly I was going through a bad burn in phase. Or it was disabling the system sounds in windows which made the difference. It seemed to be introducing some sort of a artificial bass boost to the sound which was messing it up.

Either way, it sounds brilliant now and think I will be more than content with the Azur's HP out till I can afford a proper amp.


----------



## reddington

guidostrunk said:


> I'm curious as to why I lost so much volume using Note3> OTG>DF>iCan>HD650, compared to using the HPO on my note3? 1 o'clock on my ican from the HPO is almost double the loudness from the DF. Can anyone explain?
> BTW,the DF absolutely blows away the note3 internals. Night and day difference to my ears.




Are you using UAPP?


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm using Spotify atm. It's just strange that I don't get the same volume level from my ican through DF as opposed to HPO? 





reddington said:


> Are you using UAPP?


----------



## reddington

guidostrunk said:


> I'm using Spotify atm. It's just strange that I don't get the same volume level from my ican through DF as opposed to HPO?




To use the iCan as the amplifier, your System volume and player volume has to be full and you have to use your iCans volume knob/buttons to control the volume. That's the way it works on windows anyways.

I use the dragonfly directly off my Nexus 5 and UAPP. Volumes on da lower side compared to the HP out. Need to enable hardware volume in the UAPP settings to truly take advantage of the dragonfly's amplification. Gets way louder than normal HP out.

Don't think Spotify can utilise the dragonfly as its meant to be done.

There's a limited time UAPP trial download on UAPPs website. Try it without and with hardware volume enabled. You will understand what am talking about.

PS Do keep volume low while trying hardware volume. Can get awfully loud


----------



## Guidostrunk

Volume on my phone is set to max. Can the volume on the DF, be controlled on my note3? 





reddington said:


> To use the iCan as the amplifier, your System volume has to be full and you have to use your iCans volume knob/buttons to control the volume. That's the way it works on windows anyways.
> 
> I use the dragonfly directly off my Nexus 5 and UAPP. Volumes on da lower side compared to the HP out. Need to enable hardware volume in the UAPP settings to truly take advantage of the dragonfly's amplification. Gets way louder than normal HP out.
> 
> Don't think Spotify can utilise the dragonfly as its meant to be done.


----------



## reddington

guidostrunk said:


> Volume on my phone is set to max. Can the volume on the DF, be controlled on my note3?




The Dragonfly wasn't really built keeping Android in mind. I doubt Spotify can utilise the full power of the Dragonfly.

You will need to use specialised apps like UAPP. Give the trial version a shot. Go to the menu and enable hardware volume. See if its better.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I don't think Spotify is the issue. It's the output volume, DF vs HPO. I'm wondering if my HPO puts out a stronger signal , than the DF? 





reddington said:


> To use the iCan as the amplifier, your System volume and player volume has to be full and you have to use your iCans volume knob/buttons to control the volume. That's the way it works on windows anyways.
> 
> I use the dragonfly directly off my Nexus 5 and UAPP. Volumes on da lower side compared to the HP out. Need to enable hardware volume in the UAPP settings to truly take advantage of the dragonfly's amplification. Gets way louder than normal HP out.
> 
> ...


----------



## junkers

Question about the output. The Audioquest FAQ states the following:


> DragonFly is also capable of being employed as a traditional fixed-output source component (such as a CD, DVD or Blu-ray player), and can be connected to a standard input on a receiver or preamplifier. For this application, both the music player’s volume control and the main operating system volume control should be set to maximum. This “fixed output mode” allows your audio or AV system’s volume control to be in charge.


 
 Does maxing the volume bypass the amp circuitry completely? I am curious if you can use the Dragonfly purely as a DAC, rather than a DAC + amp that is maxed out. Is there any way to test this, possibly by comparing 99% output to 100%?


----------



## Krutsch

junkers said:


> Question about the output. The Audioquest FAQ states the following:
> *Does maxing the volume bypass the amp circuitry completely?* I am curious if you can use the Dragonfly purely as a DAC, rather than a DAC + amp that is maxed out. Is there any way to test this, possibly by comparing 99% output to 100%?


 
  
 No, it does not. I called AQ technical support some time ago to ask the same question.


----------



## junkers

krutsch said:


> junkers said:
> 
> 
> > Question about the output. The Audioquest FAQ states the following:
> ...


 
 Oy, that is very disappointing. Are there other DACs in this kind of smaller form factor that offer a pure DAC output, either by being just a DAC or somehow bypassing its amp if it is a combo (like the Dragonfly)?


----------



## kenshinhimura

hrt microstreamer most likely


----------



## junkers

kenshinhimura said:


> hrt microstreamer most likely


 
   
 Straight from the horse's mouth:
  
 Quote:


kevin_halverson said:


> The line output of the microStreamer is a completely separate path from the headphone amplifier and is ultimately a much better choice for an external amplifier use.  The experience of StefanG is not unexpected at all.  The DAC and reconstruction filter of the line output of the microStreamer is only bettered by devices costing many times its price and I would strongly encourage any owner of the microStreamer to not make the mistake of assuming that the two paths are similar in character.
> 
> Kevin Halverson
> CTO
> High Resolution Technologies, LLC


----------



## Krutsch

junkers said:


> Oy, that is very disappointing. Are there other DACs in this kind of smaller form factor that offer a pure DAC output, either by being just a DAC or somehow bypassing its amp if it is a combo (like the Dragonfly)?


 

 Why is this a problem? Running the DF at max volume is similar to the fixed 2Vrms line-level output you would have with a DAC that doesn't support variable line-out.


----------



## Kevin_Halverson

"Straight from the horse's mouth:"
  
 I have certainly been called worse!
  
 Kevin Halverson
 CTO
 High Resolution Technologies, LLC


----------



## junkers

krutsch said:


> junkers said:
> 
> 
> > Oy, that is very disappointing. Are there other DACs in this kind of smaller form factor that offer a pure DAC output, either by being just a DAC or somehow bypassing its amp if it is a combo (like the Dragonfly)?
> ...


 
 The signal would still be going through the amp though right? Thus affecting the sound (however so slightly). This would be akin to maxing out the volume of an iPod and saying that that is a proper line-out from its DAC. I would like the option to have a straight DAC that feeds the signal to a dedicated external amp for further processing.  The Microstreamer seems to do that by having completely separate paths: a DAC only path (to be used with an external amp), and a DAC + internal amp path.
  
  


kevin_halverson said:


> "Straight from the horse's mouth:"
> 
> I have certainly been called worse!
> 
> ...


 
 LMAO, certainly did not expect this response.


----------



## Krutsch

junkers said:


> The signal would still be going through the amp though right?* Thus affecting the sound (however so slightly).* This would be *akin to maxing out the volume of an iPod* and saying that that is a proper line-out from its DAC. I would like the option to have a straight DAC that feeds the signal to a dedicated external amp for further processing.  The Microstreamer seems to do that by having completely separate paths: a DAC only path (to be used with an external amp), and a DAC + internal amp path.


 
  
 Well, iPods have varying degrees of quality on their HP amps, but I know that earlier classic models had cheap / low quality implementations.  So, no, I don't agree with your analogy.
  
 IMO, you had it right on the first part: *affecting the sound (however so slightly).*


----------



## Kevin_Halverson

krutsch said:


> Well, iPods have varying degrees of quality on their HP amps, but I know that earlier classic models had cheap / low quality implementations.  So, no, I don't agree with your analogy.
> 
> IMO, you had it right on the first part: *affecting the sound (however so slightly).*


 
 The underlying concept is to bypass as much of the signal path of the iOS device as possible. By using an asynchronous converter with an actual line output path, the iOS device becomes a UI (user interface) and storage platform; these are the things that an iPad/iPhone/iPod do well.
 Bypassing its conversion (DAC) and analog stages eliminates what they (the iOS device) does a poor job, effectively taking only the best from the iOS device's capabilities.
  
 Kevin Halverson
 CTO
 High Resolution Technologies, LLC


----------



## Krutsch

^^^ see the previous posts for context; he was asking about the DragonFly, not an iPod, but was making a comparison between the two, with respect to line-level out.


----------



## Kevin_Halverson

krutsch said:


> ^^^ see the previous posts for context; he was asking about the DragonFly, not an iPod, but was making a comparison between the two, with respect to line-level out.


 
 Thank you for the clarification of the question and subject matter.  
  
 The advantage of using an actual line output as opposed to one taken from a headphone amplifier is that one avoids the headphone amplifier's characteristics (higher noise floor and distortion levels).  By avoiding the attenuator and using a dedicated high performance line driver, the DAC's characteristics are not impacted by the headphone amplifier.  Consider that a headphone amplifier is designed to drive a much lower impedance load than would be encountered by a line driver.  One wouldn't want to use the output of a power amplifier to connect to a line level input component, rather the best would be to use the up stream pre amplifier's output. This analogy describes effectively the same situation, think of the headphone amplifier as a power amplifier (which it is), the line output is ideal in terms of level for connection to a line level input of a subsequent analog component such as an external headphone amplifier or a power amplifier (if used in a traditional audio system).
  
 The degree of improvement will be dependent upon the overall component chain, but higher performance system (and a more articulate listener) should easily appreciate the difference.
  
 Kevin Halverson
 CTO
 High Resolution Technologies, LLC


----------



## Travelbug

i seem to have lost the ability to play the audioquest dragonfly (1.2) in one of the usb ports of my laptop. it work on another port but id rather have it on the other port for ergonomic reasons. 
  
 i seem to remember a discussion here aout how to get back usb functionality for the dragonfly but i cant seem to find the post now. can anyone help me out?


----------



## Bostonears

travelbug said:


> i seem to have lost the ability to play the audioquest dragonfly (1.2) in one of the usb ports of my laptop. it work on another port but id rather have it on the other port for ergonomic reasons.
> 
> i seem to remember a discussion here aout how to get back usb functionality for the dragonfly but i cant seem to find the post now. can anyone help me out?


 

 Is one of your laptop ports USB 2.0 and the other USB 3.0? If you're on Windows (rather than Mac), did you try uninstalling and reinstalling the device driver in Device Manager?


----------



## Travelbug

bostonears said:


> Is one of your laptop ports USB 2.0 and the other USB 3.0? If you're on Windows (rather than Mac), did you try uninstalling and reinstalling the device driver in Device Manager?


 
  
 yup i have both usb 2 and 3. ive tried disabling usb and using windows repair both did not fix it. ill try uninstall/reinstall although i have a feeling its more a hardware problem, but nothing to lose by trying...


----------



## Writers Quill

My Dragonfly 1.2 has a several second delay when starting or restarting audio.


----------



## randomasdf97

.


----------



## Delirious Lab

Finally received my DF today, so far a great fit with Schiit Vali + Senn HD600.
  
 Here's my stress relief fix... Got a cheap USB hub to rest things on the table:
  

  
  
 Still, Dragonfly was hovering a millimetre or two above the surface, so I stuck a couple of rubber feet underneath it (spare from the Fiio E07K box, they give you six instead of four for some reason)... Do you see them?  Now everything is nice and steady.


----------



## bpcans

^^^ Nice job with the feet on the DF Delirious Lab. Nice looking setup.


----------



## Krutsch

bpcans said:


> ^^^ Nice job with the feet on the DF Delirious Lab. Nice looking setup.


 

 Or... you get a DragonTail and forget about pressure on the DF USB connector.


----------



## bpcans

krutsch said:


> Or... you get a DragonTail and forget about pressure on the DF USB connector.


Genius!


----------



## tiobilli

Please, can anybody tell me the colors that takes the dragonfly logo depending on the playing sample rate? I have the 1.2 version and the logo is always "pink" whether I play Spotify at 320kbps or FLAC at 96khz.


----------



## Krutsch

tiobilli said:


> Please, can anybody tell me the colors that takes the dragonfly logo depending on the playing sample rate? I have the 1.2 version and the logo is always "pink" whether I play Spotify at 320kbps or FLAC at 96khz.


 

 It's actually Magenta and that means: 96kHz, which likely means you are playing from your Android phone which won't change sample rates, unless you use something an audio player that does this (can't recall the app that does this for Android).
  
 Google: AudioQuest Dragonfly Manual ... and download the PDF from their web site with setup directions and descriptions of the colors.


----------



## plonter

Currently I have the HIFImeDIY U2 asynch USB DAC which I am using only as a dac to my headroom headphone amp.      anyone compared the HIFIme to the Dragonfly ?  I am considering giving the dragon a try.
 but I am interested to know if I should expect a noticable improvement over the HIFImeDIY dac.


----------



## tiobilli

Hi guys,
How it shoud be configured in order to use correctly within Spotify? Right now, the dragonfly logo is aways magenta and It should be green since Spotify Premium is at 320kbps.


----------



## Krutsch

krutsch said:


> It's actually Magenta and that means: 96kHz, which likely means you are playing from your Android phone which won't change sample rates, unless you use something an audio player that does this (can't recall the app that does this for Android).
> 
> *Google: AudioQuest Dragonfly Manual ... and download the PDF from their web site with setup directions and descriptions of the colors.*


 
  
  


tiobilli said:


> Hi guys,
> How it shoud be configured in order to use correctly within Spotify? Right now, the dragonfly logo is aways magenta and It should be green since Spotify Premium is at 320kbps.


 
  
 See my previous post. Your sound output is locked at 96kHz and has nothing to do with 320 kbps. If you are on a PC, see Sound Control Panel. If you are on a Mac, see Audio MIDI Setup.
  
 Google... read... experiment.


----------



## tiobilli

krutsch said:


> See my previous post. Your sound output is locked at 96kHz and has nothing to do with 320 kbps. If you are on a PC, see Sound Control Panel. If you are on a Mac, see Audio MIDI Setup.
> 
> Google... read... experiment.



Thank you. Finally I unerstood. But i think this configuration method is quite complicated, I explain some situations, please If I'm wrong, correct me:

1) You want to listen mp3 at 320kbs, like Spotiy -> You must go to Windows Control Panel, and set the DragonFly at 24/44 -> Then you can play the song.
2) You want to listen FLAC at 24/96 -> You must go to Windows Control Panel, and set the DragonFly at 24/96 -> Then you can play the song.

Is this the way to proceed? Can it be set always at 24/96 throught control panel and then play whatever the song you want or does this get worse the sound quality?


----------



## Krutsch

tiobilli said:


> Thank you. Finally I unerstood. But i think this configuration method is quite complicated, I explain some situations, please If I'm wrong, correct me:
> 
> 1) You want to listen mp3 at 320kbs, like Spotiy -> You must go to Windows Control Panel, and set the DragonFly at 24/44 -> Then you can play the song.
> 2) You want to listen FLAC at 24/96 -> You must go to Windows Control Panel, and set the DragonFly at 24/96 -> Then you can play the song.
> ...


 
  
 Correct. And, yes, it's complicated. What most folks do is download a music player that will automagically switch the sample rate to match the track you are playing. For Windows, I highly recommend J.River Media Center and for the Mac, try BitPerfect or Audirvana+.


----------



## theinvertedsky

..has anybody else have had the housing come loose before? It happened to me twice and i was able to just push and pop the pieces back into place..just wondering..


----------



## AudioNoob

theinvertedsky said:


> ..has anybody else have had the housing come loose before? It happened to me twice and i was able to just push and pop the pieces back into place..just wondering..


 
 Check if the metal of the usb plug on the DF is square, sometimes they get a bit bent and this gives them a bit too much grip. Also, try a few different usb ports, maybe the one you are using is too tight? Short answer, never happened to me.


----------



## tianuk3

Hey guys; firstly is it true that Dragonfly's main competitor (cambridge sounds Dacmagic XS) is having a new release soon?
  
 I was really interested in getting the Dragonfly as a cheapish DAC for my Graham Slee Solo SRG 2 & HD 650 setup; but I'm thinking of holding fire until these rumours cease.


----------



## reddington

tianuk3 said:


> Hey guys; firstly is it true that Dragonfly's main competitor (cambridge sounds Dacmagic XS) is having a new release soon?
> 
> I was really interested in getting the Dragonfly as a cheapish DAC for my Graham Slee Solo SRG 2 & HD 650 setup; but I'm thinking of holding fire until these rumours cease.




Also consider the Meridian Explorer. It was down to 149$ on Amazon last time I checked.


----------



## Krutsch

reddington said:


> Also consider the *Meridian Explorer*. It was down to 149$ on Amazon last time I checked.


 
  
 Do you have one? If so, how would you compare it with the DF?


----------



## reddington

krutsch said:


> Do you have one? If so, how would you compare it with the DF?




No I don't but I have talked to a few people with both the explorer and DF 1.0 or 1.2. Everyone's verdict was in favour of the Explorer.

I own the DF 1.2 and think they are fabulous for the price and form factor. But given the current price difference, the explorer is a no brainer.


----------



## Krutsch

reddington said:


> *Everyone's verdict was in favour of the Explorer.*


 
  
 Because of features, form-factor, et al. or because of a preference for the sound of the Explorer over the DF?


----------



## reddington

krutsch said:


> Because of features, form-factor, et al. or because of a preference for the sound of the Explorer over the DF?




Well to be precise a few preferred the smaller size of the DF to that of the Meridian while some were more comfortable with the Meridian's cabled approach over the USB jutting out.

As far as SQ is concerned the consensus seemed to be that the Meridian has a certain finesse that the DF clearly lacked. Also some thought the Meridian had a slightly larger soundstage and separation was a tad better.

I am just summarizing what others told me. Not first hand experience.


----------



## plonter

Just got the DF to improve my HIFImeDIY U2 (also based on ES9023).  Although the U2 sounded really nice for what it's worth (57 usd) , it is not neutral enough for my taste. not sharp and tight enough, missing overall clarity.
 The DF really improves in those regions and I can clearly hear the difference, definitely better.   And so far using the DF built in Headphone amp as an appetizer to my Headroom ultra micro.  Hope the sound will improve further when switching amps.
 Can't believe that such a tiny thing can sound that good!   IMO that is the sound quality that should come "built in" with every laptop.


----------



## plonter

Deleted post


----------



## tianuk3

reddington said:


> Also consider the Meridian Explorer. It was down to 149$ on Amazon last time I checked.


 

 The Meridian Explorer 2 has just been released! may have to give that a look  - £199 though. 
  
 Thanks for the advice though; Meridian Explorer 1 at least looks decent!


----------



## plonter

So far my initial impressions with the DF as a dac + headphone amp after few hours of burn in (less than 10):
 I certainly noticed the WOW effect at first listen.  detailed and clear sounding, nice sparkle in the highs but without sibilance. acoustic guitars really sound nice with it.
 the bass is nice and gets deep, but can get a little uncontrolled and muddy sometimes..not tight enough.  you can feel that this little amp don't have enough authoroty and power.  also, the mids are not farward enough for me, a little in the background.
  I needed to pair it with the Grado to balance them.  I somewhat feel that it is harder for the DF to drive the SR80 than the M50 but maybe it is only my not used to the new sound signature.
  
 anyway, the sound is definitely better that the computer onboard sound, but not by a huge margin.  My next step is to pair it with my headroom ultra micro amp and use it as DAC only, hope it will balance things a little.


----------



## mrscotchguy

tianuk3 said:


> The Meridian Explorer 2 has just been released! may have to give that a look  - £199 though.
> 
> Thanks for the advice though; Meridian Explorer 1 at least looks decent!


 
 I'll just wait until next year for the new model of the DF to be release before upgrading/sidegrading...


----------



## Krutsch

mrscotchguy said:


> I'll just wait until next year for the new model of the DF to be release before upgrading/sidegrading...


 

 I, on the other hand, will just keep using the 1.2 model to avoid paying for something new that will likely sound the same


----------



## plonter

I also started investigating the Explorer.   I wonder how is the sound, on paper it seems better than the DF.  
 I also don't wanna spend 300$ right now, But we all know what will happen eventually


----------



## reddington

plonter said:


> I also started investigating the Explorer.   I wonder how is the sound, on paper it seems better than the DF.
> I also don't wanna spend 300$ right now, But we all know what will happen eventually :bigsmile_face:




The explorer is selling for 149$ now. The DF 1.2 goes for 135$. 

If anyone's looking to buy a new DAC in that range the explorer surely makes more sense. 

The meridian seems to be an upgrade over the 1.2 both according to specs and user reviews.

But is it worth getting if you already own a DF 1.2? Can't really say.


----------



## plonter

reddington said:


> The explorer is selling for 149$ now. The DF 1.2 goes for 135$.
> 
> If anyone's looking to buy a new DAC in that range the explorer surely makes more sense.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I meant the new Explorer 2 Actually    were you referring to the first version of the Explorer ?   the new version should be improved, I believe it is 295$.
 Well..it's an upgrade, you said it yourself , So I guess you answered your own question.


----------



## plonter

Just have a listening session with the DF as a DAC only plugged to the headroom ultra micro.   MUCH BETTER!   Now the DF can show its true power as a DAC.
 Coupled with a good amplification, my Grado SR80's are singing again .    The DF is punchy and digital sounding, just the way I like it


----------



## mrscotchguy

krutsch said:


> I, on the other hand, will just keep using the 1.2 model to avoid paying for something new that will likely sound the same


 
 The price of the 1.2 will drop when the new one is released... the newest version will have two models, maybe three models, one compatible with pc, idevices, and android.  There's talk of 192khz and dsd...


----------



## Krutsch

plonter said:


> Just have a listening session with the DF as a DAC only plugged to the headroom ultra micro.   MUCH BETTER!   Now the DF can show its true power as a DAC.
> Coupled with a good amplification, my Grado SR80's are singing again .    The DF is punchy and digital sounding, just the way I like it


 

 I feel the same way... the DF is a great DAC paired with an external amp, as seen in my latest iteration of my Work-Fi rig:


----------



## reddington

krutsch said:


> I feel the same way... the DF is a great DAC paired with an external amp, as seen in my latest iteration of my Work-Fi rig:




Sweet looking setup. That is a nuforce icon hdp by the looks of it. How are you bypassing the DAC section?

I tried connecting my dragonfly with my udac just for kicks to see if using it only as an amp makes some improvements. But got no sound through foobar.


----------



## Krutsch

reddington said:


> Sweet looking setup. That is a nuforce icon hdp by the looks of it. How are you bypassing the DAC section?
> 
> I tried connecting my dragonfly with my udac just for kicks to see if using it only as an amp makes some improvements. But got no sound through foobar.


 

 Hmm... not sure what happened to the photo, but anyway...
  
 I am not bypassing the DAC - I am plugging the DF's headphone output to the analog input on the HDP, using a 3.5mm to RCA (L-R) interconnect from Kimber Kable.


----------



## reddington

krutsch said:


> Hmm... not sure what happened to the photo, but anyway...
> 
> I am not bypassing the DAC - I am plugging the DF's headphone output to the analog input on the HDP, using a 3.5mm to RCA (L-R) interconnect from Kimber Kable.




Ya the pics a bit odd in the quoted part.

I meant how are you bypassing the DAC in the Nuforce not the DF. I guess you are using the DF as the DAC and the HDP's amp section. Right?


----------



## bpcans

krutsch said:


> Hmm... not sure what happened to the photo, but anyway...
> 
> I am not bypassing the DAC - I am plugging the DF's headphone output to the analog input on the HDP, using a 3.5mm to RCA (L-R) interconnect from Kimber Kable.


Key tach, how's that Kimber cable 3.5 > RCA (left-right) interconnect. Was it expensive? Oh, and how's the WA-3 working for you? Now you need a million dollar DAC!


----------



## Krutsch

reddington said:


> Ya the pics a bit odd in the quoted part.
> 
> I meant how are you bypassing the DAC in the Nuforce not the DF. I guess you are using the DF as the DAC and the HDP's amp section. Right?


 

 Correct. With the outboard linear power supply, I think the HPD is a nice SS amp and pairs really well with my Grados and HD-598s.


----------



## Krutsch

bpcans said:


> Key tach, how's that Kimber cable 3.5 > RCA (left-right) interconnect. Was it expensive? Oh, and how's the WA-3 working for you? Now you need a million dollar DAC!


 

 I love that cable ... looks sweet with solid connectors and nice sleeve around most of the cable, expect where it splits into the L/R Ultra-Plate RCA plug. Can't recall what I paid (they were probably around $80.00... or more... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).  I'm pretty sure that AudioPerfection in Richfield carries them (they are a Kimber dealer).
  
 I'll attach photos that hopefully don't get messed up during upload to Head-Fi:


----------



## reddington

krutsch said:


> Correct. With the outboard linear power supply, I think the HPD is a nice SS amp and pairs really well with my Grados and HD-598s.




For some reason my UDac refuses to produce sound when connected to the DF with a 3.5mm to RCA. Not that it would have made a lot of difference but still should be working. Dunno why its not.


----------



## Krutsch

reddington said:


> For some reason my UDac refuses to produce sound when connected to the DF with a 3.5mm to RCA. Not that it would have made a lot of difference but still should be working. Dunno why its not.


 

 If you are referring to the NuForce uDac, that device doesn't have an analog input (only 3.5mm headphone output, as well as RCA outputs on the back for powered speakers).
  
 So it's USB in and either coax digital out or analog RCA outs.


----------



## reddington

krutsch said:


> If you are referring to the NuForce uDac, that device doesn't have an analog input (only 3.5mm headphone output, as well as RCA outputs on the back for powered speakers).
> 
> So it's USB in and either coax digital out or analog RCA outs.




Aha..... completely forgot these were RCA outs not ins. Stupid me. Must be the lack of sleep. Its 4:15 in the morning here and am still working with HPs on.


----------



## Krutsch

reddington said:


> Aha..... completely forgot these were RCA outs not ins. Stupid me


 

 We've all been there...


----------



## bpcans

krutsch said:


> I love that cable ... looks sweet with solid connectors and nice sleeve around most of the cable, expect where it splits into the L/R Ultra-Plate RCA plug. Can't recall what I paid (they were probably around $80.00... or more...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That's a nice looking cable. My 3.5 to RCA is an Audioquest that I bought at the WorstBuy right down the street from audio perfection, man do they have some nice stuff there. Not car payment but mortgage payment expensive.


----------



## bpcans

reddington said:


> Aha..... completely forgot these were RCA outs not ins. Stupid me. Must be the lack of sleep. Its 4:15 in the morning here and am still working with HPs on.


 

 All the people in Minnesota could fit into a single neighborhood in Kolkata. I can see a physical representation of the time difference between Minnesota and India, but its still hard to wrap my brain around the concept.


----------



## plonter

Is it ok to leave the DF plugged to the computer 24/7 ?  Just asking out of paranoia 
 Actually I  plug it to a powered usb Hub, so it is never being turned off.


----------



## Delirious Lab

Probably better than plugging/unplugging daily.  Less risk of damaging the USB connector.
  
 As for leaving the power on - don't know.


----------



## faisal2003456

So...I got one for $75 used. I truly cannot believe how good this tiny stick sounds. It absolutely smashes the Magni+Modi in clarity for the M50s. Will compare with my other cans later.


----------



## Puma Cat

faisal2003456 said:


> So...I got one for $75 used. I truly cannot believe how good this tiny stick sounds. It absolutely smashes the Magni+Modi in clarity for the M50s. Will compare with my other cans later.


 
 Which DF did you get? The original or version 1.2?


----------



## faisal2003456

puma cat said:


> Which DF did you get? The original or version 1.2?


 
  
 Original. I found a 1.2 for $75, I would have bought two.


----------



## Puma Cat

faisal2003456 said:


> Original. I found a 1.2 for $75, I would have bought two.


 

 NIce score. If you ever get a chance to pick up a 1.2, by all means, do it. I've owned both for quite a while, and the version 1.2 is noticeably nicer than the original. More natural, more spacious and sweeter-sounding. I actually think it sounds more musical than the LH Geek Out 450, but it's limited to 24/96 and does not support native DSD. But it is a gorgeous-sounding DAC, regardless. Gordon Rankin has got it goin' on...


----------



## XLR8

I have listened to the v1.2 for many months now close to 4 months pretty much daily.
  
 Now used my old v1 and wow what a revelation more analog sounding and outstanding clarity on the soundstage. They are different in their own way but to which is the best I would have to say without doubt the original v1.0
 Happy to have both though  .....


----------



## TsukiNick

Is it just me or is the volume pretty loud on a lot of portable headphones with the recommended 25 system volume?  Wish it got lower with the analog stage.


----------



## roguepp88

Has anyone tried pairing this with a Nexus 5 with Android 5.0 using an OTG cable?
 Will it work?


----------



## kong

roguepp88 said:


> Has anyone tried pairing this with a Nexus 5 with Android 5.0 using an OTG cable?
> Will it work?


 
  
 Yes it works.


----------



## reddington

roguepp88 said:


> Has anyone tried pairing this with a Nexus 5 with Android 5.0 using an OTG cable?
> Will it work?




Yes it works. But using apps like USB Audio Player Pro produces better results and is a lot more reliable.


----------



## RiddleyWalker

In regards to using the Dragonfly as DAC-only (bypassing DF's amp section with a 3.5mm-to-RCA converter to external amp), I've seen conflicting information.  Some things I've read suggest that by putting computer system volume at 100%, it will push a line-level signal.  Other info says it's impossible to bypass amp section, and while it will obviously still work with an external amp, it will pass through the DF's amp section before doing so.
  
 Can anybody clarify this for me?  Thanks!


----------



## AudioNoob

I believe it's line out at 100% and can attenuate lower levels if you'd like it to. You're not bypassing an amp section per se from what I understand it is to be considered a pre-amp suitable for headphone use also.


----------



## Krutsch

audionoob said:


> I believe it's line out at 100% and can attenuate lower levels if you'd like it to. You're not bypassing an amp section per se from what I understand it is to be considered a pre-amp suitable for headphone use also.


 

 Correct... I called AudioQuest sometime back to clarify this; there is no "by-passing" the amp section, but at full volume you have line-level out (roughly 2VRms, although the output seems very "hot" to me when I connect it to an external integrated amp).


----------



## reddington

krutsch said:


> Correct... I called AudioQuest sometime back to clarify this; there is no "by-passing" the amp section, but at full volume you have line-level out (roughly 2VRms, although the output seems very "hot" to me when I connect it to an external integrated amp).




Does keeping the volume 1-2 clicks lower suppress the 'hot'ness to some extent?


----------



## Krutsch

reddington said:


> Does keeping the volume 1-2 clicks lower suppress the 'hot'ness to some extent?


 

 Sure. I usually *do* dial-down the DF volume when connecting to my NAD C375BEE (which has plenty of grunt), to avoid any clipping on the DF's output (though I've never experienced any that I could hear).


----------



## plonter

Deleted post.


----------



## plonter

I deleted my previous post, saying that the HiFimeDIY U2 is warmer than the DF, but I now realize that this is not true so I take it back.  The U2 initially gives the feeling of being warmer and "tubier" but this sound is not accurate, in fact it rolls off the highs and mids too much.   Now that I listen to the DF through the wyrd I get enough warmth and bass and the mids and highs remain neutral.  this is definitely more accurate.  The DF is much better dac than the U2 for sure. 
 I guess listening to my Grado 325's all week,getting huge midbass, and suddenly coming back to the HD800 was a sharp transition for me and I blamed it on the poor DF 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.   when getting used to the HD800 sound,there is plenty of bass and warmth.
  
 But nevertheless I am sure thinking about upgrading the DF soon, although very good sounding for the price and size, this is not an endgame for me.


----------



## reddington

plonter said:


> I deleted my previous post, saying that the HiFimeDIY U2 is warmer than the DF, but I now realize that this is not true so I take it back.  The U2 initially gives the feeling of being warmer and "tubier" but this sound is not accurate, in fact it rolls off the highs and mids too much.   Now that I listen to the DF through the wyrd I get enough warmth and bass and the mids and highs remain neutral.  this is definitely more accurate.  The DF is much better dac than the U2 for sure.
> I guess listening to my Grado 325's all week,getting huge midbass, and suddenly coming back to the HD800 was a sharp transition for me and I blamed it on the poor DF  .   when getting used to the HD800 sound,there is plenty of bass and warmth.
> 
> But nevertheless I am sure thinking about upgrading the DF soon, although very good sounding for the price and size, this is not an endgame for me.




Dragonfly with and without the wyrd. What are your impressions?


----------



## plonter

So far I didn't notice any difference,probably my laptop's usb port did good enough job driving the Dragonfly. But I still not regretting getting the wyrd,the peace of mind worth it.
 But I also haven't done any A-B test to really look for the difference.


----------



## sicko

Guys, I currently have the Fiio e7/e9 combo (old version) and the HD600s. Talking pure sound quality, will the Dragonfly be better than the e7/e9 and will it have enough power to drive the Senns to good listening levels?


----------



## Delirious Lab

Sicko, see my reply in the HD600 thread.


----------



## sicko

delirious lab said:


> Sicko, see my reply in the HD600 thread.


 
 So if I add an amp in the chain, will the Dragonfly's headphone out as a perfect lineout?


----------



## plonter

I personally set the DF to max with no problems.


----------



## Delirious Lab

Max volume on the Dragonfly is too loud to leave me any room on my Vali's volume pot to play with.  So I keep the amp dialed between 9 and 10 o'clock and control the volume from my computer (which according to Audioquest, actually controls the DF's analog volume).


----------



## reddington

delirious lab said:


> Max volume on the Dragonfly is too loud to leave me any room on my Vali's volume pot to play with.  So I keep the amp dialed between 9 and 10 o'clock and control the volume from my computer (which according to Audioquest, actually controls the DF's analog volume).




I keep the Dragonfly on full volume and my Vali stays between 9-12. Something must be wrong with my hearing. 

On a separate note, thanks Delirious for helping me choose the Vali. The little amp can produce some serious magic combined with the Dragonfly running the HD 650s.

Excellent return for the money spent. Been very hard to put down my HP's off late.


----------



## Delirious Lab

reddington said:


> I keep the Dragonfly on full volume and my Vali stays between 9-12. Something must be wrong with my hearing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I try to save my ears so they will last all the 40 or so years of life I have left in me.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Typically 40-50% (a little more with classical music) on the DF and 9 o'clock on the Vali is plenty for me.  Then again, the comfortable volume on a HD600 may be a little lower than on the warmer HD650 - just speculating.
  
 Oh, and you're welcome.  Do be careful, that combo is addictive.


----------



## Travelbug

What would be a good amp to use with 1.2 to drive an hd600?


----------



## Krutsch

travelbug said:


> What would be a good amp to use with 1.2 to drive an hd600?


 

 I'm partial to the FiiO line for portable use. I have the FiiO E11K and I think it works great with the HD650 (so should work just fine with the HD600).


----------



## TsukiNick

Schiit Magni or O2 amplifiers, Schiit if you are in the US, O2 is cheaper option outside US.  Both are great can't go wrong with either.


----------



## pantheon

hi,i own an audinst hud mini.do you think i make a good choice to sell the audinst and take the dragonfly? is it an upgrade ?


----------



## bpcans

pantheon said:


> hi,i own an audinst hud mini.do you think i make a good choice to sell the audinst and take the dragonfly? is it an upgrade ?


I say yes, get the DF.


----------



## jamor

It's been over a year since the 1.2 was released and I was wondering if a new release was coming shortly?


----------



## bpcans

jamor said:


> It's been over a year since the 1.2 was released and I was wondering if a new release was coming shortly?


I don't know why they'd release a new model so soon after the DF1.2. Audioquest have captured the market at the $150 - $200 price point and have gotten many audiophile awards and glowing reviews for the Dragonfly. Not unless somebody can make a better chip that's just as inexpensive. I love the DF's size and easy UI with my MacBook Pro. Now if somebody could make a DAC the size of a pack of chewing gum that sounded as good as the Light Harmonic DaVinci and cost only a couple hundred bucks that would be amazing. Maybe in another 20 years when we'll be using only thumb prints and flying cars. Highly unlikely though!


----------



## reddington

Anyone here knows how the DF 1.2 compares against the Gen1 modi?

Was planning to get one for my desktop rig and retire the DF for portable duties only. Is the Modi any better?


----------



## mrscotchguy

bpcans said:


> I don't know why they'd release a new model so soon after the DF1.2. Audioquest have captured the market at the $150 - $200 price point and have gotten many audiophile awards and glowing reviews for the Dragonfly. Not unless somebody can make a better chip that's just as inexpensive. I love the DF's size and easy UI with my MacBook Pro. Now if somebody could make a DAC the size of a pack of chewing gum that sounded as good as the Light Harmonic DaVinci and cost only a couple hundred bucks that would be amazing. Maybe in another 20 years when we'll be using only thumb prints and flying cars. Highly unlikely though!




They have to stay relevant. Just creating a market segment isn't enough to drive long term sales...

That and the new model(s) will feature DSD, 192/24, and Apple/android compatibility... that's enough reason right there, isn't it?


----------



## Mojo777

reddington said:


> Anyone here knows how the DF 1.2 compares against the Gen1 modi?
> 
> Was planning to get one for my desktop rig and retire the DF for portable duties only. Is the Modi any better?


 
 If you were local to the U.S. I would send you my Modi for free.
  
 I just got the DF 1.2 today actually for mobile use. I would say that the DF has all the width, presence, and extension I would look for in a DAC. It's get's out the way of the music and even makes my Beats sound better! (no bashing)
  
 Will try it later with the LCD-Xs and report back.


----------



## jamor

mojo777 said:


> I just got the DF 1.2 today actually for mobile use. I would say that the DF has all the width, presence, and extension I would look for in a DAC. It's get's out the way of the music and even makes my Beats sound better! (no bashing)
> 
> Will try it later with the LCD-Xs and report back.




Do you use your dragonfly with your phone or just laptop. If so, did you get the USB dac app?

I was wondering if the dragonfly does anything with streaming audio or if it's only useful with the USB DAC app because that app actually detects your rate, 41 48 or 96 and automatically adjusts to that rate. without the app is it matching the sample rate? In windows you have to manually adjust the rate so can you just set it to 96 and let it down sample or should you change the rate for each song?


----------



## Mojo777

It's magenta right now on my mac streaming tidal, so I guess it's downsampling. I'll try switching to 44.1 and see if I hear a difference. I also have bitperfect that can  autoswitch but don't use it much anymore. I'll give it a go


----------



## jamor

mojo777 said:


> It's magenta right now on my mac streaming tidal, so I guess it's downsampling. I'll try switching to 44.1 and see if I hear a difference. I also have bitperfect that can  autoswitch but don't use it much anymore. I'll give it a go


 
  
 Ok I have to do some more testing myself.


----------



## Mojo777

Well I did not a hear a difference between 44.1 and 96K streaming Tidal. If there is a difference my ears aren't good enough. So i leave it at 96K. By the way this little thing does  hell of a job with the X. It's a keeper at this price point for sure.


----------



## jamor

I don't hear any difference either


----------



## nbakid2000

I did have the Dragonfly 1.2 for about a week and determined it wasn't enough of a jump from my on-board sound card in my laptop to justify the cost. I did extensive A/Bing and while the Dragonfly was a definite improvement as far as imaging, detail, etc. it was overall pretty slight compared to what I already had. That's not a knock on the Dragonfly, I don't think....I think it's just a testament to how good my on-board sound card seems to be. I heard maybe a $75 improvement, not a $150 one, unfortunately. I did however get the Geek Out 450 and that's a MAJOR jump up from the on-board sound though. And it was cheaper than the Dragonfly ($120 vs $150) so I came out on top there.


----------



## jamor

nbakid2000 said:


> I did have the Dragonfly 1.2 for about a week and determined it wasn't enough of a jump from my on-board sound card in my laptop to justify the cost. I did extensive A/Bing and while the Dragonfly was a definite improvement as far as imaging, detail, etc. it was overall pretty slight compared to what I already had. That's not a knock on the Dragonfly, I don't think....I think it's just a testament to how good my on-board sound card seems to be. I heard maybe a $75 improvement, not a $150 one, unfortunately. I did however get the Geek Out 450 and that's a MAJOR jump up from the on-board sound though. And it was cheaper than the Dragonfly ($120 vs $150) so I came out on top there.


 
  
 Apparently they require 150 hours of burn-in to work..


----------



## nbakid2000

jamor said:


> Apparently they require 150 hours of burn-in to work..


 
  
 Maybe that was part of my problem. Oh well, maybe I'll get one again sometime or get the newer models when they drop. Who knows.


----------



## MarcoGV

I have been enjoying the Dragonfly (v1.0) for well over a year.  A strange thing starting happening with my desktop (a Dell PC running Windows 7) a few weeks ago.  When I unplug the Dragonfly from the desktop, you can hear the hard drive spinning fast, and then the desktop shuts down.  This does not happen with my laptop. I know that I am not providing enough detail for a diagnosis, but I wonder whether others have experienced the same problem: you unplug the Dragonfly, the computer shuts down.


----------



## jnorris

You're kidding me, right? 150 hours? That sounds like a salesman trying to ensure that the unit is kept beyond the return period.


----------



## jamor

nbakid2000 said:


> Maybe that was part of my problem. Oh well, maybe I'll get one again sometime or get the newer models when they drop. Who knows.


 
  
 Don't bother.  I gave it multiple over-night runs and a lot of hours and I still heard no difference between 2 computers and 1 phone (3 devices total). It only gave me more volume but it certainly did not change any quality or add any bass or soundstage etc.
  
 Anyway I returned mine today.  For $150 you'd think I'd hear at least a small difference.  But nothing.  Drivers were working properly and everything.
  
 The only thing I see this useful for is if you have a very power hungry headphone and you need the extra volume on-the-go which it would definitely work for.
  


jnorris said:


> You're kidding me, right? 150 hours? That sounds like a salesman trying to ensure that the unit is kept beyond the return period.


 
  
 I'm not an engineer but I don't personally understand what a 150 hour burn-in would do for a computer chip.  All it is is a green chip with some circuitry. Why would that need a burn in?  Also sounds scammy to me. 
  
 I will stay away from this company in the future.


----------



## plonter

My Dragonfly 1.2 powered by Wyrd sounds awesome!  Connected with an Audioquest Evergreen 0.6M 3.5 to 3.5 to Headroom ultra micro amp and HD800 (which both are out of the picture).
 I were supposed to get a Dragontail together with the interconnects (3.5 to 3.5 and 3.5 to rca) but they accidentaly sent me another adapter, they are now sending me the Dragontail in the mail, so for now I am plugging the DF directly to the Wyrd.


----------



## Krutsch

plonter said:


> *My Dragonfly 1.2 powered by Wyrd sounds awesome!*  Connected with an Audioquest Evergreen 0.6M 3.5 to 3.5 to Headroom ultra micro amp and HD800 (which both are out of the picture).
> I were supposed to get a Dragontail together with the interconnects (3.5 to 3.5 and 3.5 to rca) but they accidentaly sent me another adapter, they are now sending me the Dragontail in the mail, so for now I am plugging the DF directly to the Wyrd.


 
  
 How would you characterize the sound difference with / without the Wyrd?


----------



## plonter

krutsch said:


> How would you characterize the sound difference with / without the Wyrd?


 
 To tell the truth,I haven't made much testing with and without it,cause since I got it all my dacs (Dragonfly,modi uber) is always connected to it.  There won't be a big,or even noticeable difference if you have a well working usb ports,But I still prefer to use it since I don't really trust the usb ports..at least not 100% of the time.  Wyrd just helps to assure that usb powered dac's performance is maximized.   But I can definitely say that with my current setup,the sound is surprisingly good for the cost. 
 I believe that the Evergreen interconnect has something to do with it also.


----------



## FeedingNation

Anyone has thoughts between the dragonfly and the Schiit Fulla? The USB design seems better than the Fulla external cable.
The power should be enough to drive my Gr07.


----------



## Hi-Fi Guy

feedingnation said:


> Anyone has thoughts between the dragonfly and the Schiit Fulla? The USB design seems better than the Fulla external cable.
> The power should be enough to drive my Gr07.


 
 I am also interested in the fulla/dragonfly comparison.


----------



## nbakid2000

jamor said:


> Apparently they require 150 hours of burn-in to work..


 
  
 So they do or don't require 150 hours of burn in? Your two posts say the complete opposite.
  
 I did let this thing burn in for about 10 or 12 hours straight (at least) and I still heard very little difference. It wasn't like I just pulled it out of the box and started testing. I kept it for a full 2 weeks and let it play all the time. Didn't seem to make that much of a difference.


----------



## bpcans

nbakid2000 said:


> So they do or don't require 150 hours of burn in? Your two posts say the complete opposite.
> 
> I did let this thing burn in for about 10 or 12 hours straight (at least) and I still heard very little difference. It wasn't like I just pulled it out of the box and started testing. I kept it for a full 2 weeks and let it play all the time. Didn't seem to make that much of a difference.


As far as I know the AQ Dragonfly doesn't require any burn-in. IMO it did produce a positive audible difference in sound quality when plugged it into my MacBook Pro while using my headphones.


----------



## jamor

nbakid2000 said:


> So they do or don't require 150 hours of burn in? Your two posts say the complete opposite.
> 
> I did let this thing burn in for about 10 or 12 hours straight (at least) and I still heard very little difference. It wasn't like I just pulled it out of the box and started testing. I kept it for a full 2 weeks and let it play all the time. Didn't seem to make that much of a difference.


 
  
  


bpcans said:


> As far as I know the AQ Dragonfly doesn't require any burn-in. IMO it did produce a positive audible difference in sound quality when plugged it into my MacBook Pro while using my headphones.


 
  
  
 Sorry I should have been more direct in my post.  What I meant to say is that that Audioquest claims the Dragonfly needs a 150 hour burn in.  
  
 But in my experience it did not change or help them.


----------



## nbakid2000

bpcans said:


> As far as I know the AQ Dragonfly doesn't require any burn-in. IMO it did produce a positive audible difference in sound quality when plugged it into my MacBook Pro while using my headphones.


 
  
  


jamor said:


> Sorry I should have been more direct in my post.  What I meant to say is that that Audioquest claims the Dragonfly needs a 150 hour burn in.
> 
> But in my experience it did not change or help them.


 
  
 That was my experience as well. Glad to know I wasn't the only one.


----------



## Rearwing

It certainly makes a difference in my MacBook Pro, both in terms of volume and soundstage. Especially, with my AKG's, possibly it is more noticeable with different equipment?


----------



## jamor

rearwing said:


> It certainly makes a difference in my MacBook Pro, both in terms of volume and soundstage. Especially, with my AKG's, possibly it is more noticeable with different equipment?


 
  
 AKGs are notoriously hard to drive so any amp is going to do those headphones a lot of good.


----------



## Sunrider6

edit: nvm, got my front panel working


----------



## NineToTheSky

I have a Samsung Galaxy Tab Pro 12.2 and a Note Edge. When using Deezer, Poweramp or anything else, there is either no sound (mainly with the Tab Pro) or it plays very slowly (mainly with the Edge). The only way I can get good sound (and it is very good) is using USB Audio Player Pro. I am not rooted. Can the Samsungs play nice with the Dragonfly?


----------



## sicko

ninetothesky said:


> I have a Samsung Galaxy Tab Pro 12.2 and a Note Edge. When using Deezer, Poweramp or anything else, there is either no sound (mainly with the Tab Pro) or it plays very slowly (mainly with the Edge). The only way I can get good sound (and it is very good) is using USB Audio Player Pro. I am not rooted. Can the Samsungs play nice with the Dragonfly?


 
 You can, but with an OTG cable. Android 5 (Lollipop) has USB audio baked right in from the start.


----------



## NineToTheSky

Yes, I am using an OTG cable. I am on 4.4.4. I hope 5 will be coming soon.


----------



## NineToTheSky

I emailed Audioquest about Adroid compatibility, and this is their reply:
  
_Unfortunately not, due mostly to the current draw.  Dragonfly was designed to work with a laptop or desktop computer (PC or Mac) that is fitted with a USB port.  Because there have been so many enquires about using Dragonfly with tablets and smartphones we realize there's a pretty big demand for such a product (or products!) and we are curently developing a whole family of Dragonfly-type products which will work with your tablet and/or smartphone, either iOS or Android.  We hope to be able to launch one or more of these products early in the new year._
  
 I'm looking foward to it!


----------



## mrscotchguy

These were supposed to be released at CES... didn't happen and the new AQ headphone was supposed to be out by now. From all the negative feedback, I'm guessing the headphones are getting a slight retune for deeper bass and more clarity. Hopefully the new Dragonfly series will be released alongside the cans.

What I know sofar is all models are suppose to offer 24/192 support and compatibility with their OS (iOS, Android, PC/Mac) with no addded cable chains. They should be a similar/same form factor as previous Dragonflies. 

*Edit
With all the changes going on with Apple, this could explain all the delays...

 DSD was promised on the PC/Mac version, but no confirmation for the mobile versions. 
Here's hoping they throw a small battery in the mobile versions and include a free app to get the most out of the phone. 

Rumors were AQ would release new cables for adaptors similar to the Dragontail. With any luck, it will not be in the Carbon series since these have solid core conductors and have very little flexibility!

That's all I have...


----------



## Krutsch

mrscotchguy said:


> snip...





> What I know sofar is all models are suppose to offer 24/192 support and compatibility with their OS (iOS, Android, PC/Mac) with no added cable chains. They should be a similar/same form factor as previous Dragonflies.
> 
> *Edit
> With all the changes going on with Apple, this could explain all the delays...
> ...





> Rumors were AQ would release new cables for adaptors similar to the Dragontail. With any luck, it will not be in the Carbon series since these have solid core conductors and have very little flexibility!
> 
> That's all I have...


 
  
 ...will be interesting to see how they solve this problem, without "added cable chains", because now it requires USB B 2.0 & 3.0, USB C and USB micro (Android), as well as the Lightning connector for iOS.
  
 For me, I like the solid-core conductor in the current Dragontail.


----------



## peter123

Hmm, my Dragonfly actually is the one of my USB dacs that works with most android devices........


----------



## mrscotchguy

peter123 said:


> Hmm, my Dragonfly actually is the one of my USB dacs that works with most android devices........


 

Same here, works with OTG usb3 cable adaptor for my Galaxy Note3 just fine...


----------



## Krutsch

mrscotchguy said:


> Same here, works with OTG usb3 cable adaptor for my Galaxy Note3 just fine...


 

 It does and it doesn't... I can't hot-plug the DF with my Note 4, like I can with other DACs. I need to restart my Note 4 when connecting the DF to get sound output. Maybe this has changed with Lollipop; haven't tried it, lately.


----------



## RUMAY408

After 140 pages and lots of time, any thoughts on 1.0 vs. 1.2?


----------



## dmbr

rumay408 said:


> After 140 pages and lots of time, any thoughts on 1.0 vs. 1.2?


 1.0 is warm and colored, 1.2 is neutral. Otherwise not much difference.


----------



## MarcoGV

dmbr said:


> rumay408 said:
> 
> 
> > After 140 pages and lots of time, any thoughts on 1.0 vs. 1.2?
> ...


 
 Stephen Mejas (formerly) of Stereophile has almost the opposite opinion; for him, the 1.2 is warmer.  See http://www.stereophile.com/content/audioquest-dragonfly-v12.  Also see http://www.stereophile.com/content/audioquest-dragonfly-usb-da-converter for the original Stereophile review by John Atkinson.  For the record, I have never heard the 1.2.  I have the 1.0 and like it a lot.  When I use it as a DAC for my Bravo V2 amplifier, I have all the warmth I need downstream!


----------



## G_T_J

Hello,
  
 I connected my Dragonfly 1 to my TV box and to my home amplifier.
 How am I supposed to operate it?  Dragonfly advise to operate both the media player (foobar) and TV box at max volume and adjust the preferred volume by the amplifier (if I understand it right). Is this the so-called fixed output?
  
 This is what I did after all. My question is, if there's any danger of breaking the amplifier by sending full signal power to it from the Dragonfly. I suspect there won't be such a prbl as with the DF & Foobar at max volume, I get normal listening levels at around ''10-13'' which is the range I usually operate my receiver when I play CDs.
  
 It might me a noob question but I felt I had to ask just to be on the safe side.


----------



## RedJohn456

how does the Dragon fly 1.2 compare to the LH GO450? Thanks in advance


----------



## Exit

redjohn456 said:


> how does the Dragon fly 1.2 compare to the LH GO450? Thanks in advance




I happen to have DF1.2 and GO IEM. The latter is brighter on high, but still very balanced throughout low to high. Much better on the detail retrieval. An upgrade for me.


----------



## RedJohn456

exit said:


> I happen to have DF1.2 and GO IEM. The latter is brighter on high, but still very balanced throughout low to high. Much better on the detail retrieval. An upgrade for me.


 

 Thank you for the info  Looks like the GO is the better buy for me


----------



## MarcoGV

http://www.stereophile.com/content/audioquest-dragonfly-usb-da-converter-page-2


g_t_j said:


> Hello,
> 
> I connected my Dragonfly 1 to my TV box and to my home amplifier.
> How am I supposed to operate it?  Dragonfly advise to operate both the media player (foobar) and TV box at max volume and adjust the preferred volume by the amplifier (if I understand it right). Is this the so-called fixed output?
> ...


 
 Art Dudley's_Stereophile_ review of the Dragonfly v1.0 (http://www.stereophile.com/content/audioquest-dragonfly-usb-da-converter-page-2) also supports that recommendation: "The DragonFly's analog volume works similarly, in 64 steps—yet Gordon Rankin has designed it to have 60 steps up to 0dB, max. Consequently, the DragonFly owner can set the computer volume at 100% without fear of distorting the signal at that stage."  Art Dudley also noticed that some early production units had higher output on the highest setting. This is explained in greater detail in John Atkinson's measurements article in the same issue of Stereophile (http://www.stereophile.com/content/audioquest-dragonfly-usb-da-converter-measurements).  The bottom line is that the output of the Dragonfly (except for a few early units) at maximum volume is a "fixed-output" level. 
  
 I sometimes use the Dragonfly as a DAC and feed the result to a Bravo V2 hybrid headphone amplifier or to the line-in input of a Sharp shelf unit.  The Sharp unit is happy with the input from the Dragonfly at maximum volume.  (I keep the volume on the Sharp at 8-12, as if I were playing the radio or a CD directly, so my experience is similar to yours.)  With the Bravo V2, at the listening levels that I normally use, I prefer to keep the output of the Dragonfly at 50/100 or even 25/100.  This is because otherwise I have to keep the volume of the Bravo so low that channel imbalance issues occur.


----------



## G_T_J

marcogv said:


> http://www.stereophile.com/content/audioquest-dragonfly-usb-da-converter-page-2
> Art Dudley's_Stereophile_ review of the Dragonfly v1.0 (http://www.stereophile.com/content/audioquest-dragonfly-usb-da-converter-page-2) also supports that recommendation: "The DragonFly's analog volume works similarly, in 64 steps—yet Gordon Rankin has designed it to have 60 steps up to 0dB, max. Consequently, the DragonFly owner can set the computer volume at 100% without fear of distorting the signal at that stage."  Art Dudley also noticed that some early production units had higher output on the highest setting. This is explained in greater detail in John Atkinson's measurements article in the same issue of Stereophile (http://www.stereophile.com/content/audioquest-dragonfly-usb-da-converter-measurements).  The bottom line is that the output of the Dragonfly (except for a few early units) at maximum volume is a "fixed-output" level.
> 
> I sometimes use the Dragonfly as a DAC and feed the result to a Bravo V2 hybrid headphone amplifier or to the line-in input of a Sharp shelf unit.  The Sharp unit is happy with the input from the Dragonfly at maximum volume.  (I keep the volume on the Sharp at 8-12, as if I were playing the radio or a CD directly, so my experience is similar to yours.)  With the Bravo V2, at the listening levels that I normally use, I prefer to keep the output of the Dragonfly at 50/100 or even 25/100.  This is because otherwise I have to keep the volume of the Bravo so low that channel imbalance issues occur.


 
 That was really helpful! Thank you very much.
  
 At least I know I do it right.
 I'm operating DF at full volume for a week now and I don't get any noise on my amp. Everything seems to be right except from the fact that I find the sound a bit boomy-bass heavy with certain albums.
  
 I'm now considering to continue using my DF with my laptop while on the go and get a Modi for my hifi rig. This way I will bypass the double amp thing (DF amp + my stereo amp) and hopefully I'll get a more balanced tone.


----------



## nbakid2000

redjohn456 said:


> how does the Dragon fly 1.2 compare to the LH GO450? Thanks in advance


 
  
 The Geek Out 450 blows away the Dragonfly 1.2 in pretty much every aspect, at least to my ears. Very noticeable difference in sound quality, all for the better.


----------



## rvcjew

Looking for a portable dac to go with the o2 for a laptop the dragonfly apples to me cause of the price and size. Would this be similar to the stock stx dac that I use for desktop use. Is this better than the stx? The stx does have an odd sound stage if you ask me.


----------



## BGRoberts

I like the pairing with my O2 and Dragonfly v1.


----------



## rvcjew

bgroberts said:


> I like the pairing with my O2 and Dragonfly v1.


 
 Yeah after everything I have read so far since that post I think I will be picking up a 1.2v at my local bestbuy (they didn't even mark it up what!) tomorrow. Would you say its more on the warm side or neutral side? My cans consist of the ATH-M50, and K7XX (best investment I ever made so far).


----------



## BGRoberts

The Dragonfly V1 is slightly warm to many.   I never really thought of it as much so.   We all hear a little differently.   I've read the V2 is maybe a little less warm.   The O2 is pretty transparent to my ears. 
 I've never had the chance to hear either of your headphones.   They seem very popular.


----------



## faisal2003456

After much use and deliberation I've come to the conclusion that my Dragonfly 1.1+M50 (~200) is a superior set-up to my Magni+Modi+HD600/M50 (~400). Obviously the Dragonfly can't drive the HD600.

 I believe this is due to:
 The Magni is just a transparent amp and provides ample power.
 The Modi is the star of the Schiit stick, but the Dragonfly's DAC is superior.

 I need to hear how the HD600 can really sound like.....

 EDIT: Not that it's relevant, but the HD600 is better than the M50 on the Schiit stack. This is just to illustrate how awesome the Dragonfly is. If you can get it for $70 on eBay, do not hesitate.


----------



## Krutsch

faisal2003456 said:


> After much use and deliberation I've come to the conclusion that my Dragonfly 1.1+M50 (~200) is a superior set-up to my Magni+Modi+HD600/M50 (~400).
> 
> *Obviously the Dragonfly can't drive the HD600.*


 
  
 I agree that the DragonFly is an outstanding value as a source component ... but it really needs an external amp to drive higher impedance headphones.
  
 For a portable setup, I use a FiiO E11K ($59 US when I bought mine) and for a desktop setup, well, the sky's the limit. But try the FiiO and see what you think - it's a low cost solution.


----------



## Delirious Lab

faisal2003456 said:


> After much use and deliberation I've come to the conclusion that my Dragonfly 1.1+M50 (~200) is a superior set-up to my Magni+Modi+HD600/M50 (~400). Obviously the Dragonfly can't drive the HD600.
> 
> I believe this is due to:
> The Magni isn't a very good amp, it's just powerful.
> ...


 
 Have you tried DF→Magni→HD600?


----------



## faisal2003456

delirious lab said:


> Have you tried DF→Magni→HD600?


 
 Not yet. It'd be a weird setup though. Warm DF, Bright Magni, Warm HD600.


----------



## reddington

faisal2003456 said:


> Not yet. It'd be a weird setup though. Warm DF, Bright Magni, Warm HD600.


 Am sporting a DF 1.2- Vali - HD 650. Not the perfect setup in theory but really sings after the Vali warms up. Give it a spin.


----------



## Rearwing

reddington said:


> Am sporting a DF 1.2- Vali - HD 650. Not the perfect setup in theory but really sings after the Vali warms up. Give it a spin.


 

 I have tried the DF V2 - Little Dot V2+ - HD 600 and it sounds very smooth with certain genres, it's whatever sounds good to you that should matter, go with the vibe.


----------



## chambermusicman

Right now listening to Dragonfly 1.2 > Magni 2 > DT 880 Pros.  So, warm/bright/bright, I guess.  Mainly, I got the additional gain I needed from the Magni, and even better sound, especially on the bottom end, so I'm not swapping out the Dragonfly any time soon.  In a few years, the DACs that come standard in portable devices will probably be so good only the biggest spenders will buy portable DACs.  Or maybe we'll still need external DACs for exotic super high-rez formats.  But the Dragonfly was a good purchase, especially for the price.


----------



## jnorris

I just took an old, small Toshiba netbook, put in 2GB of RAM and a 480GB SSD, loaded Windows 7 and copied my 300GB of FLAC and 320K MP3 onto it. I installed the 1 by 1 player and Fidelizer. I have the Dragonfly 1.2 plugged in and connected to my Sumo Athena pre-amp, Hafler amp and Infinity IL-40 speakers. The sound is phenomenal! The sense of depth, air, weight, and presence is unbelievable.


----------



## racer11

how does this compare to the newer meridian explorer?


----------



## Great-God

How would this pair to the ATH-M50x? How is it compared to DAC Magic XS or Audioengine D3?
 Basically in Spain there's no store that has all these (Or others) to audition at the same time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Edit: First post in the forum


----------



## mistersprinkles

Hey Great-God, I'm going to Spain in a month. Cool. Ya the Hi Fi scene in Spain is a little dry in most areas unless you are in Madrid or Barcelona or something. All I can tell you is that everything I've ever read about the dragonfly is glowing praise. I haven't seen a single unsatisfactory review. It is worth every penny.
  
 I'm hoping I can afford one to take with me to Spain to stick in my laptop and play my 24/96 files. Odds are I won't come up with an extra $200 between now and then though...


----------



## mistersprinkles

jnorris said:


> I just took an old, small Toshiba netbook, put in 2GB of RAM and a 480GB SSD, loaded Windows 7 and copied my 300GB of FLAC and 320K MP3 onto it. I installed the 1 by 1 player and Fidelizer. I have the Dragonfly 1.2 plugged in and connected to my Sumo Athena pre-amp, Hafler amp and Infinity IL-40 speakers. The sound is phenomenal! The sense of depth, air, weight, and presence is unbelievable.


 
  
 You listen to MP3s? 
 ...
  
 (J/k)


----------



## jnorris

great-god said:


> How would this pair to the ATH-M50x? How is it compared to DAC Magic XS or Audioengine D3?
> 
> 
> Basically in Spain there's no store that has all these (Or others) to audition at the same time
> ...



 



I doubt there's anyplace in the USA that would have all these things available for audition!


----------



## jnorris

You listen to MP3s? 

...


Yes, depending upon the music and the quality of the recording I will either rip to FLAC or 320K MP3.


----------



## Great-God

jnorris said:


> great-god said:
> 
> 
> > How would this pair to the ATH-M50x? How is it compared to DAC Magic XS or Audioengine D3?
> ...


 
 Yeah, shame. I heard the HRT Microstreamer and found it really impressive for the size and price, and I keep hearing the DragonFly sounds better while being smaller and cheaper, so I guess I can't go wrong with it buying online. (Honestly, I can't bother to go to several shops when the choice is pretty much made)


----------



## wavid

I have the Dragonfly v1.0 and have never been able to have my windows volume over 98% or i get distortion, which means i can not bypass the internal Dragonfly amp by having windows volume at 100%.....Anyone know how i can fix this?


----------



## theinvertedsky

I have had my dragonfly v1.2 for about half a year and now its starting to emit a static noise when plugged in and whether or not music is playing. Anyone else's doing that? Wonder if there's a fix cause for the money I paid I definitely expected to not run into so many problems with this product


----------



## highfidelity69

theinvertedsky said:


> I have had my dragonfly v1.2 for about half a year and now its starting to emit a static noise when plugged in and whether or not music is playing. Anyone else's doing that? Wonder if there's a fix cause for the money I paid I definitely expected to not run into so many problems with this product


Contact the company.


----------



## jnorris

theinvertedsky said:


> I have had my dragonfly v1.2 for about half a year and now its starting to emit a static noise when plugged in and whether or not music is playing. Anyone else's doing that? Wonder if there's a fix cause for the money I paid I definitely expected to not run into so many problems with this product


 

 I suspect that some change elsewhere in the system is causing a ground loop. You might want to try one of those 3 to 2 power adapters that will allow you to plug the computer in without the ground pin.  if that cleans up the noise then you know what you should be looking for. Don't leave the computer plugged in that way, though.


----------



## Blinding

Thinking of buying a DF 1.2 to replace my internal soundcard , I'm using AKG K702 65th will the DF drive it well? Or is it a amp needed ?


----------



## JamesBr

jnorris said:


> You listen to MP3s?
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


 
 You find that those are the top quality for your setup or in general?


----------



## Great-God

After a few days with it, it has accomplished every single expectation I had on it. It sounds clean, detailed, has a good dynamic range, deep and tight bass...
 With M50x and a buddy's DT770Pro 250, it seems like it reaches the point of diminishing returns for these headphones and that it might still have hidden potential.


----------



## Krutsch

great-god said:


> After a few days with it, it has accomplished every single expectation I had on it. It sounds clean, detailed, has a good dynamic range, deep and tight bass...
> With M50x and a buddy's DT770Pro 250, it seems like it reaches the point of diminishing returns for these headphones and that it might still have hidden potential.


 
  
 Plug it into an external amp and watch how far it punches above its weight.


----------



## Great-God

krutsch said:


> Plug it into an external amp and watch how far it punches above its weight.


 
 I'd have though it doesn't need an amp at all with the M50x... (The 770 does need more juice, but the SPL it gets with the DF is more than enough)
 And about the SPL, how the hell do volume steps work with the DF? In theory, reference level should be reached at -15dB with the M50x, and that'd be 37% of max in Windows, (Which I'm using for testing) but that doesn't sound anywhere near reference level, and I want to calculate my RMS. (It seems like the steps do not go by proportional or something)


----------



## wildwood88

Hey guys, i have hd600, dt990pro and o2 amp. I am considering dragonfly v1.2 and schiit bifrost for my laptop dac. Can't decide which one I should buy. Anyone Have any idea? And have to mention that my laptop soundcard is really bad!!


----------



## dahoo

Thank you google. Your fix for the chrome just come in time. Just got my dragonfly 1.2 and found that there were 2 issues on Ubuntu and Chrome. First one is a pulseaudio config file tweak and second is this chrome browser compatibility issue with 24 bit, which has been fixed in their lasted 46 development version.
  
 Quoted from their code review:
 Dylan Reid
 Jul 27 8:16 PM
 ↩
  Patch Set 4: Code-Review+2
 Thanks, this is going to make a lot of dragonfly owners happy.
  
  


 https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/#/c/288253/
 https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=437836


----------



## twister6

If you guys want to take your DragonFly to the next level, you have to check out this little bugger: http://www.head-fi.org/t/777003/review-of-audioquest-jitterbug-usb-data-power-noise-filter


----------



## Billheiser

wildwood88 said:


> Hey guys, i have hd600, dt990pro and o2 amp. I am considering dragonfly v1.2 and schiit bifrost for my laptop dac. Can't decide which one I should buy. Anyone Have any idea? And have to mention that my laptop soundcard is really bad!!


 
 I like the Dragonfly for a small portable, but the non-portable Bifrost is much better in absolute terms.  IMO.


----------



## Bukem

Nice review. Have you also considered the resonessence labs herus or geek out?


----------



## JamesBr

twister6 said:


> If you guys want to take your DragonFly to the next level, you have to check out this little bugger: http://www.head-fi.org/t/777003/review-of-audioquest-jitterbug-usb-data-power-noise-filter


 
 I don't kow what I like more between the dragonfly or the Lenovo


----------



## nk126

Just picked up a Cozoy Astrapi and an AudioQuest Dragonfly (v1.2) to try out. Been testing with the following:
  
 Sources: MacBook Air, iPhone 6, iPhone 6S, iPad mini 2
 Headphones: PSB M4U1, Etymotic ER-4S (IEM)
 Music: Spotify 320k streaming, FLAC files played via FLAC+ on iPhone/iPad (24/96), ALAC files played via iTunes on MacBook Air (24/96)
  
 In all cases, Astrapi sounds better than Dragonfly to my ears. More importantly ... 
  
 Also in all cases, the very minimal increase in sound quality is not worth the additional cost and hassle of using either device. 
  
 Just my $0.02, and subject to the limitations of how I listen to music, but figured I'd share


----------



## jnorris

nk126 said:


> Just picked up a Cozoy Astrapi and an AudioQuest Dragonfly (v1.2) to try out. Been testing with the following:
> 
> Sources: MacBook Air, iPhone 6, iPhone 6S, iPad mini 2
> Headphones: PSB M4U1, Etymotic ER-4S (IEM)
> ...


 

 With all due respect, you claim you can hear enough of a difference between the two DACs to establish a preference, but yet you feel the increase in sound quality over on-board sound is "very minimal".  I find this less than convincing.


----------



## nk126

Why less than convincing? And no disrespect taken.


----------



## Billheiser

jnorris said:


> With all due respect, you claim you can hear enough of a difference between the two DACs to establish a preference, but yet you feel the increase in sound quality over on-board sound is "very minimal".  I find this less than convincing.


 

  I read the comment to mean that he hears a difference but not enough from EITHER device to justify buying the Firefly or the Cozoy.  That's a fair judgment.  I had the Firefly and thought it was better than the onboard sound, and worth it to me, but it wasn't a huge diff.


----------



## nk126

billheiser said:


> I read the comment to mean that he hears a difference but not enough from EITHER device to justify buying the Firefly or the Cozoy.  That's a fair judgment.  I had the Firefly and thought it was better than the onboard sound, and worth it to me, but it wasn't a huge diff.




That's exactly what I meant. Not saying there's no difference. Am saying that, to me with my gear and music, I preferred Cozoy to Dragonfly. Am also saying that to me, neither is worth keeping.


----------



## MarcoGV

nk126 said:


> billheiser said:
> 
> 
> > I read the comment to mean that he hears a difference but not enough from EITHER device to justify buying the Firefly or the Cozoy.  That's a fair judgment.  I had the Firefly and thought it was better than the onboard sound, and worth it to me, but it wasn't a huge diff.
> ...


 
 I think that jnorris's point is that it is very difficult to distinguish between two very good DACs by ear, and it is surprising that someone who can tell the difference between two very good DACs does not find the difference between both of them and a mediocre one significant. But maybe I misunderstood!


----------



## nk126

marcogv said:


> I think that jnorris's point is that it is very difficult to distinguish between two very good DACs by ear, and it is surprising that someone who can tell the difference between two very good DACs does not find the difference between both of them and a mediocre one significant. But maybe I misunderstood!


 
  
 Perhaps this source is flawed, but it's debatable that the DACs inside of MBAir, iP6 and iP6S are "mediocre":
  
 http://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/iphone-6-plus.htm#measurements
  
*Zoomed spectrum of 10,007 Hz 0 dBFS sine wave.* (CBS CD-1 track 9, R&S UPL.)
 This is FANTASTIC! This is significantly better than previous iPhones, and better than many audiophile DACs, and almost as good as a professional reference DAC like the Benchmark DAC1 HDR.
  
*Spectrum of 1,002.27 Hz 0 dBFS square wave.* (CBS CD-1 track 16, R&S UPL.)
 This is very good, way better than Bluetooth and better than most outboard DACS. 
 The iPhone 6 Plus won't distort or do anything crazy when playing modern CDs that are recorded at 110%.


----------



## jnorris

_Originally Posted by *MarcoGV* 


  _
_I think that jnorris's point is that it is very difficult to distinguish between two very good DACs by ear, and it is surprising that someone who can tell the difference between two very good DACs does not find the difference between both of them and a mediocre one significant. But maybe I misunderstood!_
  
 Thank you MarcoGV.  That is exactly what I meant.  I spent hours trying to find a difference between DACs, but only minutes in determining that both were better than on-board sound.  And if it's better, then I want it.
  
 If the Apple DACs are so good, then by all means save your money and return them - or better yet, keep the DACs and use them with a device that allows some storage expansion so that maybe you can build up a collection of music to listen to...maybe even without being shackled to iTunes!
  
 As for those test results, I'm not impressed.  Many components test well - especially those designed for low level signals - but fall short when the rubber meets the road.  Case in point is the previously well-regarded Sansa player that measured ruler flat with no load, but showed a precipitous bass roll-off when attached to a real-world headphone.
  
 I also take with a grain of salt any Apple review that is generously sprinkled with superlatives (WOW, Fantastic, Superb, Magnificent).  He lost me when he said "Way better than Bluetooth".  Really?  There isn't much in the wired world that isn't "Way better than Bluetooth".


----------



## nk126

Gotcha.
  
 And yes, I have returned both DACs. Not so much because Apple's DACs are that good (I'll take your critique of that review as more knowledgable than what I could grok from it), but because the value added by the two DACs to my ears, given how I listen, etc etc, caveat emptor, carpe diem, IMHO $0.02, wasn't enough to keep them. That said, glad to learn not to trust frequency graphs as gospel  
  
 Cheers


----------



## FlyingFungus

Just bought the DragonFly. I saw it at a store and it was being sold at a reasonable price. Originally I was looking for something from Schiit or another alternative like Meridian...the Dragonfly was not even on my radar or suggested to me. But I thought, I would try it out, and so far it's been a great purchase. It's my first real amp/dac purchase (the Creative Soundblaster that I have really doesn't do much for me and has issues). Music and Video's sound so much more alive and detailed with the Dragonfly. And it's so damn small...it's awesome! 
  
 I'm still going to look at Schiit or Meridian...maybe I'll get one of those for my PS4


----------



## Krutsch

flyingfungus said:


> Just bought the DragonFly. I saw it at a store and it was being sold at a reasonable price. Originally I was looking for something from Schiit or another alternative like Meridian...the Dragonfly was not even on my radar or suggested to me. But I thought, I would try it out, and so far it's been a great purchase. It's my first real amp/dac purchase (the Creative Soundblaster that I have really doesn't do much for me and has issues). Music and Video's sound so much more alive and detailed with the Dragonfly. And it's so damn small...it's awesome!
> 
> I'm still going to look at Schiit or Meridian...maybe I'll get one of those for my PS4


 

 Congrats. I think the DF DAC section is pretty good, but the headphone amp can use some help. If you are thinking about adding to your rig, consider just adding an amp, like the Schiit Magni or something portable from FiiO (e.g. E11K).


----------



## MarcoGV

krutsch said:


> flyingfungus said:
> 
> 
> > Just bought the DragonFly. I saw it at a store and it was being sold at a reasonable price. Originally I was looking for something from Schiit or another alternative like Meridian...the Dragonfly was not even on my radar or suggested to me. But I thought, I would try it out, and so far it's been a great purchase. It's my first real amp/dac purchase (the Creative Soundblaster that I have really doesn't do much for me and has issues). Music and Video's sound so much more alive and detailed with the Dragonfly. And it's so damn small...it's awesome!
> ...


 

 I use it with an Objective 2.


----------



## FlyingFungus

krutsch said:


> Congrats. I think the DF DAC section is pretty good, but the headphone amp can use some help. If you are thinking about adding to your rig, consider just adding an amp, like the Schiit Magni or something portable from FiiO (e.g. E11K).


 
 I've definitely looked at the Schiit Magni and I've heard only good things about FiiO in general. I'll definitely have a look at them.
  
 But why do I need to look at them? What about the DF headphone amp needs help? Just curious to know.


----------



## Krutsch

flyingfungus said:


> I've definitely looked at the Schiit Magni and I've heard only good things about FiiO in general. I'll definitely have a look at them.
> 
> But why do I need to look at them? What about the DF headphone amp needs help? Just curious to know.


 

 Maybe *need* is the wrong word, but I've found that the DF scales well with an external amp. If it's working for you, just enjoy the music.


----------



## FlyingFungus

krutsch said:


> Maybe *need* is the wrong word, but I've found that the DF scales well with an external amp. If it's working for you, just enjoy the music.


 
 So far it's been great for such a little thing. But I'll definitely consider the ones you mentioned in the near future.


----------



## alexandernigth

This can be paired with the oppo pm3?? Or sennheiser hd 630vb??


----------



## JCGSAH

jude said:


> *AudioQuest Dragonfly Review : Affordable, Outstanding, Tiny DAC / Amp*​


 
 If I use a OTG cable, can I use this with my (Nexus 6) Android phone?
  
_[Mod Edit: Please don't quote entire reviews.]_


----------



## Fox2twenty

Sooooo.. Is the dragonfly still the best dac/amp for small laptops? I know it's been out for awhile...


----------



## bpcans

iphone iem said:


> Sooooo.. Is the dragonfly still the best dac/amp for small laptops? I know it's been out for awhile...


The DF works well for me with my MacBook Pro 13" when I'm traveling or just sitting out on the patio.


----------



## Fox2twenty

bpcans said:


> The DF works well for me with my MacBook Pro 13" when I'm traveling or just sitting out on the patio.




Awesome stuff. Does it work just as well with windows??


----------



## MarcoGV

iphone iem said:


> bpcans said:
> 
> 
> > The DF works well for me with my MacBook Pro 13" when I'm traveling or just sitting out on the patio.
> ...


 

 Yes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Also note that there are two versions: 1.0 and 1.2.  I have the 1.0 version and am very satisfied with it.  The 1.2 version is supposed to be an improvement.


----------



## canali

guess i don't see what all the fuss is about on this product, but
 admittedly was pretty excited when i first got it yesterday...
 have tried it on both my laptop as well as on my nexus with an otg cable
 going back and forth (with DF and without) using the same musical piece repeatedly (tidal hi fi)
 my easy to drive iems are the sony xba h1.
  
 ....yeah sure there is a slight difference, but i was left disappointed,
 expecting more (so this being my first dac/amp, maybe i set the bar too high, esp
 with all the hype around it).
  
 .... will continue evaluating...who knows..maybe it's me: i'm just getting into audio now
 so my ears aren't as refined as many of you on here.
 maybe i'll keep it...or will step up to the geek out v2 or even the mojo.


----------



## faisal2003456

I cannot speak for the quality of the XBAH1, but this isn't strange. If your phone/laptops output is clean and powerful enough, the Dragonfly should make for little difference. IEMs are very sensitive and do not need amplification (I cannot speak to the quality of your source either), so if the source is transparent it should not make a world of difference.

 I like my Dragonfly with full-sized headphones between 40 and 300 ohms. I did not enjoy it universally with IEMs. In-fact, I felt there was too much noise with the Fidelio S2.


----------



## canali

thanks faisal2003456
  
 I, like many here, have read frequently that for the most part our laptops have subpar sound cards... so if you're running your iems or cans from your laptop 'tis best to get a better dac/amp for sound quality...which is what i tried to do...thanks for the imput.
  
 Quote:


faisal2003456 said:


> I cannot speak for the quality of the XBAH1, but this isn't strange. If your phone/laptops output is clean and powerful enough, the Dragonfly should make for little difference. IEMs are very sensitive and do not need amplification (I cannot speak to the quality of your source either), so if the source is transparent it should not make a world of difference.
> 
> I like my Dragonfly with full-sized headphones between 40 and 300 ohms. I did not enjoy it universally with IEMs. In-fact, I felt there was too much noise with the Fidelio S2.


----------



## faisal2003456

The most important thing is getting the targeted current and voltage output for our desired listening volume.

 The second is ensuring you have a clean and transparent source. My laptops headphone jack was utter garbage (and very loose). YMMV


----------



## nbakid2000

canali said:


> guess i don't see what all the fuss is about on this product, but
> admittedly was pretty excited when i first got it yesterday...
> have tried it on both my laptop as well as on my nexus with an otg cable
> going back and forth (with DF and without) using the same musical piece repeatedly (tidal hi fi)
> ...




For 100 bucks more you'll probably much happier with the v2 ($250 currently at Amazon).


----------



## canali

Hi there ...my df is v2.



nbakid2000 said:


> For 100 bucks more you'll probably much happier with the v2 ($250 currently at Amazon).


----------



## XLR8

marcogv said:


> iphone iem said:
> 
> 
> > bpcans said:
> ...




The 1.0 is sonically superior than v1.2.
I have both.


----------



## faisal2003456

xlr8 said:


> The 1.0 is sonically superior than v1.2.
> I have both.


 
  
 A friend who had the 1.2 gave it away to buy a 1.0 (after hearing mine).


----------



## wanderjahr

Would I be able to plug the Dragonfly into my PS4 and run my cans from there? Looking for a simple solution to better sound.


----------



## seires

wanderjahr said:


> Would I be able to plug the Dragonfly into my PS4 and run my cans from there? Looking for a simple solution to better sound.




http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/691087-playstation-4/69310423


----------



## faisal2003456

wanderjahr said:


> Would I be able to plug the Dragonfly into my PS4 and run my cans from there? Looking for a simple solution to better sound.


 
 Yes.


----------



## bpcans

xlr8 said:


> The 1.0 is sonically superior than v1.2.
> I have both.


I think that the v1.2 DF is sonically more even in its presentation when it comes to treble/bass balance, especially when listening older pre 2000 recordings.


----------



## Rearwing

bpcans said:


> I think that the v1.2 DF is sonically more even in its presentation when it comes to treble/bass balance, especially when listening older pre 2000 recordings.


 

 I would agree, having used both the v1.2 seems better suited to older recordings.


----------



## John Culter

Dragonfly Black at $99, which is the new updated version of the Dragonfly. The big change is that in addition to a lower price, instead of just working with high-powered computer USB connections, the Dragonfly can now work with phones and tablets. Both iOS and Android are supported. One of the ways they made this happen was with more efficient chips inside and lowering the output voltage a tad to 1.2 volts.
  
 New Dragonfly Red at $199, described as a hot-rodded Dragonfly. It has a higher output voltage and has been better optimized for driving headphones.


----------



## MarcoGV

john culter said:


> Dragonfly Black at $99, which is the new updated version of the Dragonfly. The big change is that in addition to a lower price, instead of just working with high-powered computer USB connections, the Dragonfly can now work with phones and tablets. Both iOS and Android are supported. One of the ways they made this happen was with more efficient chips inside and lowering the output voltage a tad to 1.2 volts.
> 
> New Dragonfly Red at $199, described as a hot-rodded Dragonfly. It has a higher output voltage and has been better optimized for driving headphones.


 
 Very interesting!  I do not see this on the AudioQuest website (http://www.audioquest.com/)  yet.  Has this just been announced at CES?  I also hope that there will be Windows Phone support for the Dragonfly Black.


----------



## XLR8

John Culter what is your source?


----------



## Aradea

I dont know whether should buy the v1.0, v1.2 or the audioengine D3..
Some help guys? I am planning to match it with a transparent amp


----------



## jnorris

I think the choice is the Dragonfly 1.2 and the AudioEngine.  The 1.0, should you be able to find it, has been reported as being not as good as the 1.2.  The Dragonfly also uses the ESS Sabre 9023 DAC which I prefer over the AudioEngine's AKM4396.  It's very personal, though, and others may disagree.  Differences are very slight.


----------



## yage

aradea said:


> I dont know whether should buy the v1.0, v1.2 or the audioengine D3..
> Some help guys? I am planning to match it with a transparent amp


 
  
 I haven't heard the D3, however one of my friends has a DF 1.2 paired with a transparent / neutral sounding amp (DIY Millett Butte) and it sounds great. The DF supplies just the right amount of warmth to the Butte such that the system sounds natural and engaging. Hope this helps!


----------



## Aradea

yage said:


> I haven't heard the D3, however one of my friends has a DF 1.2 paired with a transparent / neutral sounding amp (DIY Millett Butte) and it sounds great. The DF supplies just the right amount of warmth to the Butte such that the system sounds natural and engaging. Hope this helps!



Thanks!

How about compared to Aune T1 Mk2?


----------



## yage

aradea said:


> Thanks!
> 
> How about compared to Aune T1 Mk2?


 
  
 Sorry, can't say as I've never heard the Aune. However, looking at the T1 Mk 2's features on paper I can't see how you'd go wrong with either setup.


----------



## nbakid2000

canali said:


> Hi there ...my df is v2.


 

 Sorry, I meant the LH Labs Geek Out V2.


----------



## canali

nbakid2000 said:


> Sorry, I meant the LH Labs Geek Out V2.


 
 yes i have read that there is a definite sonic difference between a Geek out v2 and dragonfly 1.2


----------



## Fungus

Can I get a pure dac version without the amp?
 If not, can the internal amp section of the v2 be completely bypassed.
 If so, what is the output voltage at line-level and output power at 32ohm load for each channel when used as a dac/amp?


----------



## widezu69

Hey I have a problem with my v1.2 and I'm hoping it's not defective. I've plugged it into two PCs one running Win10 and one on Win8.1. Both of them recognised it immediately. Unfortunately I can only set it to 24/48 or 24/96. If I set it to 24/44.1 or 24/88.2 I hear a crackle and then no sound plays...
  
 Any help?


----------



## jnorris

Leave it at 24/96 and the computer upsample lower bit-rate audio.  It should be fine.


----------



## widezu69

jnorris said:


> Leave it at 24/96 and the computer upsample lower bit-rate audio.  It should be fine.


 
 I know but the Audioquest website and general info I've read around is that you should always try to match the audio with the output... Should I be too fussed or worried about it?


----------



## jnorris

Don't worry about it.  Mine is set to 96/24 and sounds great.  No worries about matching bit rate and depth.


----------



## canali

earlier i'd offered my 2 cents that i found little difference in the Dragonfly
 when listening to music from my laptop.
  
 ...well i've had more time to do some additonal listening...sometimes you only
 find the diffs _*after *_you do away with the upgrade and then go back down in sound quality
_without_ the component.
  
 this is what happend to me earlier tonight when i was assessing my new
 sony xb90ex iems against the vsonic Gr07 classics...there were things
 in the Vsonics i love (details, clarity, great bang for buck) but also
 some things i missed (more bass slam, a bit less bright).
  
 So i ended up buying the basshead approved sonys...hooked both
 iems up to my desktop at work (_with no dragonfly)_ and started listening repeatedly
 to both Rush's 'the anarchist' and The Tragically Hips 'ahead by a century'
 my laptop didn't have the dragonfly
 ...bass on the xb90ex felt overwhelming, bloomy.
  
 but upon getting home and listening again, there was a difference when i tried the dragonfly
 ...music was a bit more detailed, cleaner and tighter...not a night and day difference, but certainly
 made for a more enjoyable listening session.....so might end up keeping the sonys afterall....but maybe not


----------



## canali

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUE5O3ZDYk0&ab_channel=Hi-FiInsider
  
 anyone try this hack:
*hooking up a dragonfly to their ipod touch?*
  
 basically the poor man's chord/ipod combo 
 until i can get a chord...or a better dap with quality wifi
 ...or the samsung s7 phone
  
 anyway, any big sound difference?
  
 there is also this other video using the *HRT idsp adaptor* too to the ipod touch
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czdma16wGV4&ab_channel=Hi-FiInsider
 wonder if anyone's done a sound comparison.
  
 i tried attaching the dragonfly to my lg nexus 5 phone...now since it's been upgraded with the usb 2.0 download
 ...but it drains the battery fast...and also the volume ha to be turned up very high..80-90%.


----------



## canali

audioquest coming out with 3 new portable DACS, early 2nd quarter,
 and supposedly from the videos below they're more versatile than the current models
 and designed to work with a host of both ios and android devices, smartphones etc
  
 2 new dragonflys (both a black and more powerful red version) and a bluetooth 'beetle' dac 
  
 new black one same design to replace current 1.2v model...supposedly both better and cheaper: only $100
 also a new *turbo red* to drive more expensve cans...better dac/amp....$200
  

  
  
  
  
  
 all upgradeable with firmware, too, so their lifespan wont' expire so soon.
  
 first link is more detailed: Vimeo is interesting: talks about product development, the companies sourced out and why for their expertise for what audioquest was seeking in the end goal...provided by John Darko during their official release during CES 2016
*http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/01/ces-2016-audioquest-mobilise-dragonfly-black-red/#comment-130562*
  
*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUj4SAhm6RY*
 interesting CES interview with the president discussing in more detail the diffs between the products and their aims.
  
 they also talk about how they're now exploring more products dealing with line conditioning, signal integrity etc, given the success of the jitterbug.


----------



## canali

canali said:


> audioquest coming out with 3 new portable DACS, early 2nd quarter,
> and supposedly from the videos below they're more versatile than the current models
> and designed to work with a host of both ios and android devices, smartphones etc
> 
> ...


 
  
 and what may be an interesting alternative or comparison:
 the upcoming bang and olufsen dac/amp module designed for the LG G5 phone
 (details and video on how it fits onto the phone below in the articles below:
  
* http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/lg-g5-hi-fi-plus-modular-hi-res-dac/*
  
*http://www.fudzilla.com/news/40098-lg-g5-untold-story-of-ess-audio-greatness*
  
  seems that it can also act as a standalone dac/amp for various devices like the dragonfly.
 more details when it's actually released next few monthswith the phone.


----------



## wanderjahr

ulul said:


> It is too early as I am a strong believer of breaking even solid state audio equipment in, having heard the A/B difference.
> I am also a believer of blind testing as the placebo effect is incredibly strong - at least to my ears and I think I'm a pretty objective person.
> 
> So one advantage with the Dragonfly is that one can easily do an objective blind test as the two Dragonfly looks identical.  What I did was to mark the bottom of the version 1.2. However, I only look at them from the top with the bottom facing the table.  I then scramble the two dacs until I do not know which is which.  I listened to them intently last night (just got the 1.2 yesterday).   So far, I actually picked the 1.0 as my preferred device to my surprise, though they are very close.  There's just more 'grip' and punch in the lower frequencies.  I was very surprised because I thought the 1.2 sounded better out of the box.  Again, that's the power of suggestion and expectations.  I then double checked in the Windows drivers to make sure I had the correct unit marked - I did.
> ...


 
 Thanks so much for this.


----------



## wondroushippo

So, I'm seeing all sorts of confusing information. Is the Dragonfly 1.2's output impedance not 0.65 ohm like the 1.0's? I've read that it might be closer to 12 ohm on the 1.2? I thought it was the other way around, and trying to find a definitive answer has me confused.


----------



## MarcoGV

wondroushippo said:


> So, I'm seeing all sorts of confusing information. Is the Dragonfly 1.2's output impedance not 0.65 ohm like the 1.0's? I've read that it might be closer to 12 ohm on the 1.2? I thought it was the other way around, and trying to find a definitive answer has me confused.


 

 The output impedance of the Dragonfly 1.0 was measured by John Atkinson at _Stereophile_ to be 0.65 Ohm:
 "The output impedance was very low, at 0.65 ohm including 6' of interconnect, and appropriate for driving headphones."
 Read more at http://www.stereophile.com/content/audioquest-dragonfly-usb-da-converter-measurements#ZjOcI2dghHUTTMSY.99
  
 My guess is that the impedance of version 1.2 is the same. I also think that the 12 Ohm figure comes from a misunderstanding of statements in Audioquest's own promotional material, such as the brochure at http://www.audioquest.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/DragonFly-4pg-Brochure-EN1.pdf (which mentions 12 Ohm as the minimum recommended impedance for headphones to be used with the Dragonfly) and the FAQ at http://www.audioquest.com/usb_digital_analog_converter/faqs: "DragonFly is versatile enough to drive virtually any headphone on the market today. DragonFly can drive any headphone from 10ohm impedance on up. DragonFly has enough output to drive even the lowest efficiency headphones."  In other words, someone took the minimum recommended impedance for headphones and read it as the output impedance of the Dragonfly.


----------



## wondroushippo

marcogv said:


> The output impedance of the Dragonfly 1.0 was measured by John Atkinson at _Stereophile_ to be 0.65 Ohm:
> "The output impedance was very low, at 0.65 ohm including 6' of interconnect, and appropriate for driving headphones."
> Read more at http://www.stereophile.com/content/audioquest-dragonfly-usb-da-converter-measurements#ZjOcI2dghHUTTMSY.99
> 
> My guess is that the impedance of version 1.2 is the same. I also think that the 12 Ohm figure comes from a misunderstanding of statements in Audioquest's own promotional material, such as the brochure at http://www.audioquest.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/DragonFly-4pg-Brochure-EN1.pdf (which mentions 12 Ohm as the minimum recommended impedance for headphones to be used with the Dragonfly) and the FAQ at http://www.audioquest.com/usb_digital_analog_converter/faqs: "DragonFly is versatile enough to drive virtually any headphone on the market today. DragonFly can drive any headphone from 10ohm impedance on up. DragonFly has enough output to drive even the lowest efficiency headphones."  In other words, someone took the minimum recommended impedance for headphones and read it as the output impedance of the Dragonfly.


 
 See, that's what I thought.  Though I could've sworn I heard an earlier version of the Dragonfly had a high Z, and suddenly I'm all confused as to where I and the guy I was arguing with got our perceptions. Hmm.


----------



## god-bluff

Just got a Dragonfly. Using it with my Sony Xperia Z3 Compact at the moment. Sony Music app, Sony OTG cable. Works fine but the light on the Dragonfly is always Magenta. This would indicate 96 kHz. Some of the music is but most is 44. Any ideas why this might be?

(PS the phone is getting mighty warm and the battery is depleting quite rapidly. That's where sony's separate magnetic charger might come in handy!)


----------



## yage

Means somewhere along the line your music is being resampled (unless it's already 96 kHz).


----------



## god-bluff

yage said:


> Means somewhere along the line your music is being resampled (unless it's already 96 kHz).




Thanks. As I said some albums are 92, Some 88 most 44. Sounds like I'm getting the best quality anyway if it's upsamplimg the lower resolution files I suppose.


----------



## god-bluff

Another thing is the lack of l power of this when used with my phone. The max volume is only a little louder than the Xperia's weak built in amp. Have tried using it as a 'line out' to my amp (maximum volume?) The amp GS Voyager has to be turned very high compared to say an IPOD line out . I feel somethings wrong here. Is it a faulty unit? 

Yet to use it with my computer.


----------



## yage

Hmm... Definitely not my experience with my computer. Is the phone or the media player controlling the volume independently? If so, you might want to max out those volume controls before fiddling with the DragonFly's.


----------



## rvcjew

396629 said:


> Another thing is the lack of l power of this when used with my phone. The max volume is only a little louder than the Xperia's weak built in amp. Have tried using it as a 'line out' to my amp (maximum volume?) The amp GS Voyager has to be turned very high compared to say an IPOD line out . I feel somethings wrong here. Is it a faulty unit?
> 
> Yet to use it with my computer.


To get hardware volume on Android you need to use USB audio player.It should get very loud with that, once in its settings you set it to control hardware volume not software (at the bottom).


----------



## god-bluff

rvcjew said:


> To get hardware volume on Android you need to use USB audio player.It should get very loud with that, once in its settings you set it to control hardware volume not software (at the bottom).




many thanks. I have purchase USB Audio player Pro and everything is good. Loads of headroom and the Dragonfly is lighting up correctly for the sample rate.

Sounds great so far. Sorry to have bothered you unnecessarily.


----------



## rvcjew

396629 said:


> many thanks. I have purchase USB Audio player Pro and everything is good. Loads of headroom and the Dragonfly is lighting up correctly for the sample rate.
> 
> Sounds great so far. Sorry to have bothered you unnecessarily.


 
 It's totally cool to question why your hardware seems less then it is.  yeah since lollipop android has had only 16 bit and software volume support so that solves it. The day GonemadMusic player has it I will be switching possibly.


----------



## JWolf

When are the dragonfly Red & Black going to be released for sale?


----------



## Ultrainferno

I waited way too long to check out the "Old" DragonFly 1.2 but I have to admit it's a pretty good unit. I published my review now as the new version will probably hit the market soon seeing it is on pre order already. I don't think I'll be able to listen to the new versions before High End in Munich. Anyway, great usb unit, didn't expect it to be honest.


----------



## wondroushippo

jwolf said:


> When are the dragonfly Red & Black going to be released for sale?


 
 Nobody really knows yet, unfortunately. It would be nice to have an ETA from AudioQuest, but I don't think they've said anything outside of CES about them yet. And the Beetle is on their site.


----------



## canali

wondroushippo said:


> Nobody really knows yet, unfortunately. It would be nice to have an ETA from AudioQuest, but I don't think they've said anything outside of CES about them yet. And the Beetle is on their site.


 
 i was told ''early spring'' by audioquest


----------



## JWolf

canali said:


> i was told ''early spring'' by audioquest


 
  
 Any idea of the cost?


----------



## canali

refer to my previous posts a few pages back


----------



## wondroushippo

canali said:


> i was told ''early spring'' by audioquest


 
 I've seen that, but I'd like to see more of a commitment from them on a release date instead of a wishy washy "early spring" release. Mostly because I want it now!


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

I was told at Canjam by their rep that Audioquest is trying to hit April as the release date for the new Dragonfly DACs.


----------



## DDDYKI

I thought about waiting for the new one, but I got a nice discount through work and picked this up recently. I can't say I've noticed much more than "everything's louder", but I'm currently listening with my VMODA Crossfade Wireless (wired) through my Dell laptop, to the self-titled album by Badlands. Sounds great, and given how a lot of hair metal was produced in the 80s and 90s, I suppose the DragonFly makes it sound as good as it does.


----------



## esm87

Hi guys, my setup right now is s6 edge plus, sabre hifimediy android dac into cayin c5.

Lastweek I picked up the chord mojo, ive tried everything I know of from using different music players such as uapp to tidal HIFI and the sound quality is the same. I swear I must be doing something wrong.

Im now considering the dragonfly v1.2, can it be used as OTG with my cayin c5 amp plugged into it, then my headphones plugged into the amp?

Cheers


----------



## canali

esm87 said:


> Hi guys, my setup right now is s6 edge plus, sabre hifimediy android dac into cayin c5.
> 
> Lastweek I picked up the chord mojo, ive tried everything I know of from using different music players such as uapp to tidal HIFI and the sound quality is the same. I swear I must be doing something wrong.
> 
> ...


 
  
 i must be missing something...have you not read the previous posts?
 just can't understand why would you buy a 1.2v when the newer, better and (best of all) _cheaper_ versions are just around the corner?


----------



## esm87

canali said:


> i must be missing something...but have you not read the previous posts?
> just can't understand why would you buy a 1.2v when the newer, better and (best of all) _cheaper_ versions are just around the corner?


hey mate, im new to audio, this thread dates back to 2014 and is 148 pages long, unfortunately no, I havent read it start to finish. I posted this after being fristrated with my mojo. A few minutes after posting this i read something briefly about the newer version of this. I will try and see what I can find out about the upcoming versions. Thanks


----------



## canali

esm87 said:


> hey mate, im new to audio, this thread dates back to 2014 and is 148 pages long, unfortunately no, I havent read it start to finish. I posted this after being fristrated with my mojo. A few minutes after posting this i read something briefly about the newer version of this. I will try and see what I can find out about the upcoming versions.


 
  
 ok then i'm your guardian angel, here to save you money and make you happy with current technology, lol.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 (and so what if i have hairy legs, a pot belly and 3 day old facial hair...i still have me wings!)
 i posted a few pages back links to reviews on the new upcoming dragonflys...they should be out in month or so.
 ...friendly tip on threads: always good to go back 5 pages on any thread to get an idea on what is happening.
  
 welcome btw.


----------



## esm87

C





canali said:


> ok then i'm  your guardian angel, here to save you money and make you happy with current technology, lol.
> i posted a few pages back links to reviews on the new upcoming dragonflys...they should be out in month or so.
> ...always good to go back 5 pages on any thread to get an idea on what is happening.
> 
> mind my manners: welcome btw.


cool, I'll read now n check them links!


----------



## willyvlyminck

jude said:


> Spoiler: Click to see thread-originating post (LONG)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The latest version can be used with iPhone/ iPod and iPad, this would solve the maybe coming problem with the iPhone 7 who would have no headphone socket anymore


----------



## canali

just followed up with the BC regional mgr:
 my local retailer should have them in mid april.
  
 will be interesting to see how these babies sound:
 esp on something like the venerable ipod touch
 or a current smartphone.
  
 found out that our Cdn telco carriers might not be carrying the LG G5 bang/olufsen
 dac/amp module...so just as i planned: this is the perfect substitute.


----------



## wondroushippo

canali said:


> just followed up with the BC regional mgr:
> my local retailer should have them in mid april.
> 
> will be interesting to see how these babies sound:
> ...


 
 Nice, we might start seeing these next week if we're being optimistic! It does seem like everything's getting ramped up based on AQ's social media activity...


----------



## willyvlyminck

jwolf said:


> Any idea of the cost?


 199 Euro in Germany


----------



## canali

canali said:


> just followed up with the BC regional mgr:
> my local retailer should have them in mid april.
> 
> will be interesting to see how these babies sound:
> ...


 
  
 seems prices will be as listed in darko that i earlier posted from his CES show review:
 new black US$100  Cdn $150
 new turbo red US$200  Cdn $250


----------



## god-bluff

Have I made a mistake recently purchasing a Dragonfly v1.2 at £99 ? Should I have waited for the new Dragonfly Black?
  
 Is the new Dragonfly an improvement in every way, at a lower price ?


----------



## alpha421

Return it and wait for the Black DF.  That's the expectation - better all around with the big bonus of using much less power, so much less battery drain when attached to a smartphone, which is how I'll be using it.


----------



## god-bluff

alpha421 said:


> Return it and wait for the Black DF.  That's the expectation - better all around with the big bonus of using much less power, so much less battery drain when attached to a smartphone, which is how I'll be using it.


 
 Thanks may do, but does it have a corresponding reduction in power it outputs too ?


----------



## god-bluff

Anyway, I have returned it. May look at the Black at £89.99 or the cheaper HRT dSp.


----------



## Cam1975

Any idea if the new dragonflys will work with a samsung note 5? which dragonfly (red or black) would be better paired with an AKG 7xx?


----------



## wondroushippo

cam1975 said:


> Any idea if the new dragonflys will work with a samsung note 5? which dragonfly (red or black) would be better paired with an AKG 7xx?


 
 Does your Note 5 work with other USB DACs? If so, then they should work fine. And nobody outside of the people who got early units probably know about pairing quite yet.


----------



## esm87

Anybody heard the red?


----------



## PhilW

esm87 said:


> Anybody heard the red?


 oh yes, back to back against old dragonfly. Night and day difference.


----------



## esm87

philw said:


> oh yes, back to back against old dragonfly. Night and day difference.


cheers i never got to test the old dragonfly as in a portablr guy. I use the cayin c5 with cheap sabre android dac. Maybe this red dragonflt is worth a pubt as it will greatly reduce my portable rig size lol


----------



## esm87

Excuse my grammar my phone is sensitive on touchscreen keypad lol


----------



## pieman3141

I was worried about the iPhone 7 possibly not having a headphone jack, but the Red (or Black) seems to fix things up well enough. I've already got a CCK cable. The power draw is a bit worrying, though, even at the reduced rate. I'd like to see comparisons between how much the difference in playback time is. If it's still around 30-40 hours on a decent smartphone, I just might pick one of these up when I upgrade.


----------



## JWolf

pieman3141 said:


> I was worried about the iPhone 7 possibly not having a headphone jack, but the Red (or Black) seems to fix things up well enough. I've already got a CCK cable. The power draw is a bit worrying, though, even at the reduced rate. I'd like to see comparisons between how much the difference in playback time is. If it's still around 30-40 hours on a decent smartphone, I just might pick one of these up when I upgrade.


 
  
 The thing for everyone to do is to not buy the iPhone 7 if there is no headphone jack. Tell Apple you want the headphone jack back by not buying it. If nobody buys it, Apple will get the message.


----------



## esm87

Reading up on the new dragonfly dacs im confused. It describes them as a pre amp and amp?? 

What exactly is a pre amp and amp? Sorry for being totally clueless. What are the benefits of a pre amp or a standard amp??


----------



## pieman3141

In the olden days, you needed a preamp to get the output of a device to "line level" before passing it on to an actual power amp. It was also used as a hub to connect all your devices. Now? The preamp (as a separate box) is a bit of an outdated thing. Sure, hardcore audiophiles, especially those who play with speakers, will still want one. For headphone-level stuff, the required power is so low that a preamp can double as a headphone amp (and yes, most headphone amps are actually capable of acting as a preamp for a larger power amp). Similarly, most DACs also have enough power to double as a preamp


----------



## esm87

pieman3141 said:


> In the olden days, you needed a preamp to get the output of a device to "line level" before passing it on to an actual power amp. It was also used as a hub to connect all your devices. Now? The preamp (as a separate box) is a bit of an outdated thing. Sure, hardcore audiophiles, especially those who play with speakers, will still want one. For headphone-level stuff, the required power is so low that a preamp can double as a headphone amp (and yes, most headphone amps are actually capable of acting as a preamp for a larger power amp). Similarly, most DACs also have enough power to double as a preamp


hmmm ok cheers!


----------



## wondroushippo

"Expected on 5/62016" http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=AQDRFLYB http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=AQDRFLYR


----------



## alpha421

Looking forward to it.  Just need to decide to go Black or Red.
  
 I'll be mainly using it for iems and on occasion low impedence headphones paired with my smartphone. Given this setup, anyone know if the Red will result in faster battery drain or will it be the same as the Black?


----------



## wondroushippo

alpha421 said:


> Looking forward to it.  Just need to decide to go Black or Red.
> 
> I'll be mainly using it for iems and on occasion low impedence headphones paired with my smartphone. Given this setup, anyone know if the Red will result in faster battery drain or will it be the same as the Black?


 
 I'm too lazy to dig up the exact link, but Audioquest said in a Facebook comment reply that the Red's battery drain might actually be less than Black's because Red's headphone amp is actually more efficient than Black's.


----------



## alpha421

Thanks for that.  I'll wait and read actual impressions in real world applications between the two Flys.  I'm guessing that the Red drains more due to the higher voltage, but who knows, maybe it is efficient wen it comes to low impedance transducers.  If the real world difference of battery drain is less than a hour, I might as well have the one with extra power reserve.


----------



## tommo21

From John Darko's Review:
  
 "Like Black, Red runs from USB bus power and will travel anywhere. Rankin again:_ “In general the Red will draw less into the same load as Black. But just a little… as the bias current for the Black amp is a little higher.” _Translation: Red will dent the portable host device’s battery life ever so slightly less than Black."
  
 So Red actually draws a little bit less current than Black. They Both draw around 24ma compared to the old 1.2 that 's quoted at 100ma.


----------



## alpha421

Sweet.  Thanks for the that.  DF Red all the way for me.


----------



## canali

alpha421 said:


> Sweet.  Thanks for the that.  DF Red all the way for me.


 
 alot of this information is already posted in his review, that i listed just a page or so ago


----------



## esm87

I know these are brand new, but has anyone compared either of these new releases to the mojo?


----------



## UNOE

When will the new version be ready to buy?  I'm little confused is there 6 versions with same name? and 3 version of each color.  Not sure why there is not a different name or color for each one.


----------



## alpha421

5/6/2016 as posted earlier in this thread.  You can tell the difference with the Black and Red as they have gold colored USB connectors, with the RED being the most obvious.  Should be only 4 versions with the name "Dragonfly".  The predecessor is the v1.0 and v1.2


----------



## wondroushippo

unoe said:


> When will the new version be ready to buy?  I'm little confused is there 6 versions with same name? and 3 version of each color.  Not sure why there is not a different name or color for each one.


 
 It's a lot simpler than you think.
  
 Dragonfly 1.0 - discontinued
 Dragonfly 1.2 - what you can get right now, soon to be discontinued?
 Dragonfly Black - Lower-end of the new models, works with mobile
 Dragonfly Red - Higher-end of the new models, works with mobile, is red


----------



## alpha421

The 1.0 and 1.2 also works with mobiles (perhaps not with iDevices, but definitely for Android).


----------



## alpha421

With the Black and Red being upgradable (firmware), I'm hoping for one that supports MQA (fingers crossed).


----------



## UNOE

Is the red and black for sale yet?


----------



## peter123

unoe said:


> Is the red and black for sale yet?




Come on, you asked the same thing an hour before you posted this and got an answer.........


----------



## UNOE

I didn't see a answer sorry I'll go back and read


----------



## wondroushippo

alpha421 said:


> The 1.0 and 1.2 also works with mobiles (perhaps not with iDevices, but definitely for Android).


 
 If you supply external power, they should work. If you have the USB3 Camera Connection Kit, it will work. Though the DragonFly 1.0 had some weird volume issues where volume zero on my iOS device wasn't actually muted...


----------



## andrewski

Purchased my red today on Amazon.ca through Trutone Electronics from Ontario


----------



## alpha421

Interesting.  And it was in stock/ready to ship, not a pre-order?


----------



## alpha421

Good news - "AudioQuest become the latest partners to support MQA."


----------



## JWolf

alpha421 said:


> Interesting.  And it was in stock/ready to ship, not a pre-order?


 
  
 Back ordered until April 28 according the the listing on Amazon.ca.


----------



## jnorris

Which of these would be a better choice for connecting a computer to a pre-amp?  The red was designed with a heftier headphone amp and the black was designed for mobile devices.  My understanding is that the Red has the superior DAC, but does the headphone amp mean it's not a good choice for a low-level input?


----------



## wondroushippo

jnorris said:


> Which of these would be a better choice for connecting a computer to a pre-amp?  The red was designed with a heftier headphone amp and the black was designed for mobile devices.  My understanding is that the Red has the superior DAC, but does the headphone amp mean it's not a good choice for a low-level input?


 
 Both have a headphone amp and are designed for mobile devices, so it'll really just be a matter of what level of performance you would want.


----------



## wondroushippo

More retailers are starting to list the Black and Red. BH Photo Video has both up for preorder with free expedited shipping:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1244852-REG/AudioQuest_DRAGONFLYRED_Dragonfly_Dac_Usa_Usb_Pre_Hdphn.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1244851-REG/AudioQuest_DRAGONFLYBLK_Dragonfly_Dac_Usa_Usb_Pre_Hdphn.html


----------



## canali

*john darko's reviews of newest red and black dragonflys:*
  
*new black one:* (article first goes over original, then into the newest one):
*http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/04/go-anywhere-with-audioquests-dragonfly-black/*
  
 and the more refined *turbo red *version here
*http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/04/audioquests-dragonfly-red-puts-high-end-daps-on-notice/*
  
 Excerpts:
_*Touchscreen DAPs from Astell&Kern, Sony, Fiio, Onkyo, Pioneer might not yet be rendered obsolete, especially for hardcore head-fiers, but the DragonFly Red casts serious doubt over the need to carry a second phone-sized device in the pursuit of higher sound quality.*_
  
_*and what many of us wanted: a comparison with the venerable chord mojo below:*_
_With a 3.5mm output socket in common, comparing DragonFly Red to Chord Electronics’ Mojo is easier. Neither Red nor Black DragonFly are as resolving or as internally capaciousness as the sound spilling from Chord’s battery-powered brick. In other words, the Mojo is better. Just as the Red convincingly earns it US$100 premium over the Black, the Mojo remains king of the sub-$1000 DAC hill. The Schiit Bifrost multibit might be the queen._
_The downside for wannabe mobile Chord users cannot be ignored: a Mojo can’t be rubber-strapped to a smartphone without rendering its touchscreen unusable. And even though Chord’s forthcoming extender will resolve this issue for some phones, the package would still be too cumbersome for proper pocketability. AudioQuest’s quasi-inline DragonFly offerings are far more practical._
_The irony here shouldn’t go unnoticed. Despite Chord’s ‘Power to the People’ posturing of their most affordable WTA DAC to date, it is AudioQuest who have created the unit(s) with the greatest potential for mainstream crossover. Dongles that will undoubtedly disrupt the portable audio player space too. These critters are for the hardware you have, not the hardware you have to buy._
_DragonFly Red and Black are the finest examples of everyman hifi to ever grace these pages. Their value quotients explode the dial._


----------



## alpha421

"Final count down!" as sang by Europe.


----------



## canali

and btw, i did ask john darko in the comments
 (near the very end) if the
 chord mojo reveals a significant difference than the dragonfly red:
 his reply: 'the mojo is quite the step up, yes'
  
 makes sense given it's 3x the price...and mr watts has quite the talent.
 but for those on the go wanting good sound regardless it seems like it's a great option.
  
 http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/04/audioquests-dragonfly-red-puts-high-end-daps-on-notice/#comments
  
 would enjoy hearing back from someone who tries it on their phone...and on the 'lowly' ipod touch 6th gen, if it
 adds a real sonic upgrade. (i am considering the ipod touch just due to it's lightweight and small footprint...it's truly portable audio
 in my books vs a larger and somewhat 'heavier' smartphone)


----------



## HiFiDJ

Is the Dragonfly v1.2 capable enough to use with other phones? Or does it suck up too much power?


----------



## wondroushippo

hifidj said:


> Is the Dragonfly v1.2 capable enough to use with other phones? Or does it suck up too much power?


 
 It might work fine out of an Android phone, but it might still use too much power; might need a tablet to use it with. iOS devices, it won't work without external power of some sort. Plus, just wait for the Black or Red at this point. The shipments look like they're very close: https://www.instagram.com/p/BEW8-bKKHYu/


----------



## alpha421

Yes. Works fine with Android and USB APP.  Not sure why anyone is looking at the 1.2 as 1.5 (Black) will be released in a few weeks with none of the 1.2 weaknesses such as severe battery device drain.


----------



## HiFiDJ

Ok, I see. Thanks!


----------



## HiFiDJ

Cool. I was looking into a new phone (probably Nexus 6P), not a new amp/dac. Already had the v1.2 for quite some time.


----------



## wondroushippo

alpha421 said:


> Yes. Works fine with Android and USB APP.  Not sure why anyone is looking at the 1.2 as 1.5 (Black) will be released in a few weeks with none of the 1.2 weaknesses such as severe battery device drain.


 
 Impatience is a mighty force to be reckoned with.


----------



## wondroushippo

An Amazon seller has listed the Dragonfly Red and Black, huzzah...but without Prime shipping. Ship date is the 24th, and I'm guessing other resellers will start listing soon:
  
 http://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-DragonFly-Red-Preamp-Headphone/dp/B01DFMV4NQ
 http://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-DragonFly-Black-Preamp-Headphone/dp/B01DFJ1VCI/
  
 So, my guess is that we'll be playing with these starting next week.


----------



## ContractorHei

Mine was sent out earlier today in NL. Excited to try it out when I finally get home.
 I've had the DF1.2 but it broke down on me, but I still got a way to a/b test them with my friends' DF1.2.


----------



## Andrew Rieger

I'm currently running a Modi/Magni 2 Uber stack with an Audio Technica R70'x (love these cans, not sure why they are not more popular here) and I'm pretty pleased with the results overall. Unfortunately, I have gear buying syndrome so I'm looking to upgrade.
  
 I recently picked up a Nuforce HA-200 Class A amp on Massdrop. The plan was to sell just the Magni and keep the Modi as my DAC but I hear the Modi 2 Uber leaves a little to be desired as a standalone DAC. I have also been looking for a mobile solution and I feel that the Audioquest Dragonfly Red may be a good option for me.
  
 A couple of questions:
  
 1. Will the Red be powerful enough on its own to drive my 470ohm R70x's when plugged into my iPhone or laptop?
  
 2. Will the Red's ESS 9016 DAC chip be a noticeable improvement over the Modi 2 Uber when feeding my Nuforce amp with a high quality 3.5mm to RCA cable like Audioquest's evergreen?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## theintrospect

The new ones are out today. Our local headphone shop in Vancouver www.headphonebar.com has them as of today.


----------



## alpha421

Indeed!  Just ordered from headphone.com.  Hint - search for a 10% off coupon code.


----------



## wondroushippo

alpha421 said:


> Indeed!  Just ordered from headphone.com.  Hint - search for a 10% off coupon code.


 
 Hmm, HRNEWS10 doesn't work for me. Wound up putting in an Amazon order after checking with local dealers, so I should have my Red on Wednesday!


----------



## theintrospect

Any initial impressions here


----------



## UNOE

I thought both the new ones has 9023 chip in them


----------



## theintrospect

No. They have the 9016. What really matters though is the implementation, so let us hope it is done right.


----------



## berryjuice

wondroushippo said:


> Hmm, HRNEWS10 doesn't work for me. Wound up putting in an Amazon order after checking with local dealers, so I should have my Red on Wednesday!




It's not 10% but coupon code GOLDENEARS406 will give you $10 off on a DF Red order at headphone.com.


----------



## theintrospect

too bad they do not ship to Canada


----------



## andrewski

theintrospect said:


> too bad they do not ship to Canada



Are you nuts? You'd rather pay international shipping and wait a month to save ten bucks?
Like I posted, I bought mine on Amazon.ca. They shipped yesterday (for free). I'm tracking my package and it should arrive Monday


----------



## theintrospect

andrewski said:


> Are you nuts? You'd rather pay international shipping and wait a month to save ten bucks?
> Like I posted, I bought mine on Amazon.ca. They shipped yesterday (for free). I'm tracking my package and it should arrive Monday


 

 Oh I just found it on Amazon.ca, I thought it was not available. Thanks!


----------



## wondroushippo

berryjuice said:


> It's not 10% but coupon code GOLDENEARS406 will give you $10 off on a DF Red order at headphone.com.


 
 I put in an order on Amazon especially as I had a gift card to finish off, should hopefully be here on Wednesday.


----------



## theintrospect

Tried out the Red today at a local headphone shop. Paired with the Shure se846 and streaming through Tidal, the subbass hits less harder compared to iPhone 6+. Soundstage is the same as the iPhone 6+, and hissing is minimal. Overall, the iPhone 6 really stands on its own, and the purchase was not justified to me. YMMV. My 2 cents.


----------



## SpiderNhan

Could you elaborate on what song(s) you were listening to? Also did you happen to try the Black? I already ordered a Red from Amazon so I'm itching for any impressions I can get.


----------



## theintrospect

spidernhan said:


> Could you elaborate on what song(s) you were listening to? Also did you happen to try the Black? I already ordered a Red from Amazon so I'm itching for any impressions I can get.




Songs included tracks from Miles Davis' Kind of Blue, David Bowie's Blackstar, the Eagles (one of these nights), Pink Floyd's DSoTM, Pink Floyd live Pulse concert, BB king (the thrill is gone). Please don't get me wrong the Red sounded super clean, but I personally wanted something with more soundstage and wanted the Bass of the 846 to hit as hard as it does with the iPhone 6. If you don't have an iPhone 6 then you're in for a treat.


----------



## SpiderNhan

theintrospect said:


> Songs included tracks from Miles Davis' Kind of Blue, David Bowie's Blackstar, the Eagles (one of these nights), Pink Floyd's DSoTM, Pink Floyd live Pulse concert, BB king (the thrill is gone). Please don't get me wrong the Red sounded super clean, but I personally wanted something with more backstage and wanted the Bass of the 846 to hit as hard as it does with the iPhone 6. If you don't have an iPhone 6 then you're in for a treat.


 
 Much appreciated. I'll add my impressions with a Galaxy S6 Active when it arrives.


----------



## alpha421

When testing the Df with your smartphones be sure to turn off eq or any other frequency manipulation.


----------



## SpiderNhan

Only USB Audio Player Pro with external DACs for me. I spent a year using a V-MODA Vamp Verza through Poweramp before trying it with UAPP.
  
 HUGE, MONUMENTAL difference in sound quality.


----------



## alpha421

That's how I'll be using it with the DF Red.  I don't use EQ of any kind and not implying that theintrospect has any on, it's just that more often than none, smartphone users has some EQ and/or enhancement turned on that can effect the output with setups using OTG USB DACs.


----------



## canali

theintrospect said:


> Tried out the Red today at a local headphone shop. Paired with the Shure se846 and streaming through Tidal, the subbass hits less harder compared to iPhone 6+. Soundstage is the same as the iPhone 6+, and hissing is minimal. Overall, the iPhone 6 really stands on its own, and the purchase was not justified to me. YMMV. My 2 cents.




Interesting reply ...just shows how you really have to listen to the device yourself based on your own likes, equipment combos and skill sets.

 if you read John darko's review of the dragonfly (read and look at his comments towards the very bottom), one of the newest comments asks him about its sound vs the iPhone 6 , and he said for sure it sounded much better ..significantly... I think I said night and day even ...so I think it's great to hear your op...basically it says get out there listen to things on your own and make your own assessment.


----------



## UNOE

I heard the black and red at CanJam.  I thought they were both very good.  I feel the red was pretty close to HA2.  Black was possible not that much improvement over iPhone 6.  But certainly the red was.


----------



## canali

What will be interesting is how this device sounds compared to, say, the newly released HTC 10 (have read it's DAC/amp has 24 bit high res)...or to the upcoming LG b/ dac/amp when it comes out. Some good affordable choices for us all....in a few yrs who knows if the technology will be there to have the chord mojo sound coupled with the dragonfly's weight and unobtrusive firm factor.


----------



## theintrospect

canali said:


> Interesting reply ...just shows how you really have to listen to the device yourself based on your own likes and skill sets.
> 
> if you read John darko's review of the dragonfly (read and look at his comments towards the very bottom), one of the newest comments asks him about its sound vs the iPhone 6 , and he said for sure it sounded much better ..significantly... I think I said night and day even ...so I think it's great to hear your op...basically it says get out there listen to things on your own and make your own assessment.




Actually it's me who asked John about the iPhone 6; you're quite sharp 
We do our research and gather opinions from experts, but ultimately it's our ears and how the equipment synergies with our own gear. John mentioned clearly in another comment that he didn't try it out with the Shure se846, so I had to go and give it a test drive. 
Again, I'm not saying it's bad; to the contrary, there was a slight improvement to the iPhone 6, but not to the point of justifying the price. I will be getting the Mojo.


----------



## theintrospect

alpha421 said:


> That's how I'll be using it with the DF Red.  I don't use EQ of any kind and not implying that theintrospect has any on, it's just that more often than none, smartphone users has some EQ and/or enhancement turned on that can effect the output with setups using OTG USB DACs.




This point is very important, and thanks for making it explicit. Yes I have all all EQ turned off (all the time).


----------



## SpiderNhan

This website has a review in Dutch. There is a PDF download with a better English translation, but Google translate gets the point across. Reviewer uses both Black and Red with the AQ Nighthawks out of an iPhone 6 and Mac Mini.

http://artsexcellence.com/site/audioquest-dragonfly-black-en-red-usb-dacs/


----------



## canali

well it seems only one cdn carrier will sell the new htc 10 (and its not the one i work for lol)
 ...my current phone has only 15gb of storage, which of course is laughable
 ('tis the lg nexus 5 purchased 3 yrs ago, before my interest in audio was re engaged)
  
 ....drats....so might even consider the apple 'lowly' ipod touch 6 with this gizmo....cheap, lightweight and small.
 all up there with the dragonfly...or might have swallow the form factor/extra weight and swing for the chord.
 (chord has ruly hit it out of the park with the mojo, such a sought after product)...heck there were some on the chord
 site who'd done this and feels it's one of the best for bang buck combos.
  
 if anyone does a pairing, pls share your thoughts.


----------



## berryjuice

I ordered mine from Amazon as well. I've also checked if HiDEF Lifestyle is an authorized distributor which they are based from Audioquest website before ordering as they are the only one selling it with Amazon prime.


----------



## HiFiDJ

Since I already have the v1.2, I wanted to try using it on my Nexus 6p. Is it normal that the output using the Dragonfly is lower than on the headphone output?


----------



## god-bluff

hifidj said:


> Since I already have the v1.2, I wanted to try using it on my Nexus 6p. Is it normal that the output using the Dragonfly is lower than on the headphone output?




See posts 2000 - 2002


----------



## HiFiDJ

I didn't get any "answers" within those posts. Am I missing something?


----------



## god-bluff

hifidj said:


> I didn't get any "answers" within those posts. Am I missing something?




Sorry meant 2200 -2202!! You need to use USB Audio Player to get full control of the Dragonfly's volume. I had the same problem.


----------



## HiFiDJ

Oh, wow. Ok, I'll try that. Thanks!


----------



## HiFiDJ

$8!!! Maybe I'll pass.


----------



## SpiderNhan

Have you tried Onkyo HF player?


----------



## andrewski

I have nothing intelligent to say. I've never tried any of the devises you'd like me to compare to. I've tried wired to a beats pill xl, and my Sony mdr-xb950's. This is my first ess chip. My initial impressions are:
HTC m8 + 16-bit wav + dragonfly red = believe the hype
Thanks to those who pointed out the need for a USB app (((d-_-b)))


----------



## HiFiDJ

No, I haven't. I'll try that. Thank you!


----------



## wondroushippo

hifidj said:


> $8!!! Maybe I'll pass.


 
 Willing to pay for expensive audio equipment, but not a relative pittance for an application that a developer worked hard on and has become essential for Android audiophiles? That's a toxic attitude and you need to change it.


----------



## HiFiDJ

Haha I just wanted to try it out of curiosity. I use a fiio x5ii anyway.


----------



## wondroushippo

hifidj said:


> Haha I just wanted to try it out of curiosity. I use a fiio x5ii anyway.


 
 The app description pretty prominently links to a demo version you can try: http://www.audio-evolution.com/downloads/USBAudioPlayerPROTrial_2.5.9.apk


----------



## esm87

wondroushippo said:


> Willing to pay for expensive audio equipment, but not a relative pittance for an application that a developer worked hard on and has become essential for Android audiophiles? That's a toxic attitude and you need to change it.


true that


----------



## HiFiDJ

Thanks for the link!


----------



## SpiderNhan

Any of you experiencing EMI when using the DF with your phones?


----------



## andrewski

spidernhan said:


> Any of you experiencing EMI when using the DF with your phones?



Used mine for about 5 hours today (speaker and headphones). No problems. Gets pretty warm, not hot. I'm simply floored by this ❤ Goodnight


----------



## alpha421

Got my Red this afternoon.  Similar packaging as its predecessors.  The shiny red paint is damn sexy despite being a little slippery.  So far, the hype/positive press impressions is warranted based on initial impressions from both my laptop and smart phone.  More to come by the weekend.
  
 Thinking about picking up the Nighthawks to test out its synergy.


----------



## ContractorHei

alpha421 said:


> The shiny red paint is damn sexy despite being a little slippery.


 
 Haha yep. I kind of prefer the matte design because I'm afraid to break the thing when trying to remove the cap. It looks good though.
  
 Yeah unfortunately I don't have much to add to the noise (hence why I didn't post my impressions) and I didn't get to compare it with the 1.2 yet. Simply put, it's definitely worth the money I put down for it and the form-factor allows me to use it at home and at work. With both my HD598 and Hammerheads I can hear a clear difference between the Red and crappy laptop chip and my Xonar DX in my desktop.


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

Anyone tried the red with sensitive IEMs? My Empire Ears Spartans pick up his from a lot of sources, I'm wondering if the new Dragonflys are good for that.


----------



## SpiderNhan

I'll add my impressions later tonight when my Red gets delivered. I have the 8ohm Dunu DN-2000J and the only things they don't hiss with are my Galaxy S6 Active and Massdrop O2, although the O2 picks up EMI like white puppy hairs on a black tshirt.


----------



## theintrospect

I am really looking forward to your review. I demoed the Red using my Shure se846 (9 ohm, high sensitivity) and there was almost no hiss. I said "almost" because I demoed it in a store so there might have been some hissing that I did not detect


----------



## theintrospect

spidernhan said:


> I'll add my impressions later tonight when my Red gets delivered. I have the 8ohm Dunu DN-2000J and the only things they don't hiss with are my Galaxy S6 Active and Massdrop O2, although the O2 picks up EMI like white puppy hairs on a black tshirt.


 
  I am really looking forward to your review. I demoed the Red using my Shure se846 (9 ohm, high sensitivity) and there was almost no hiss. I said "almost" because I demoed it in a store so there might have been some hissing that I did not detect


----------



## SpiderNhan

I'm pretty sure there is no hiss. I live in a not so quiet neighborhood, but it's silent. I'm burning it in now via Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt on Netflix. Impressions once I spend a few hours listening to music with them tomorrow.


----------



## theintrospect

spidernhan said:


> I'm pretty sure there is no hiss. I live in a not so quiet neighborhood, but it's silent. I'm burning it in now via Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt on Netflix. Impressions once I spend a few hours listening to music with them tomorrow.




I'm glad you're enjoying them! I'm getting closer to actually buying this.


----------



## wondroushippo

spidernhan said:


> I'm pretty sure there is no hiss. I live in a not so quiet neighborhood, but it's silent. I'm burning it in now via Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt on Netflix. Impressions once I spend a few hours listening to music with them tomorrow.


 
 Burning in something with "Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt" is the kind of irony I love 
  
 I'm excited for my Dragonfly Red to get in tomorrow, but I have a concert to go to tomorrow night, which will keep me from listening to it much right away. "Oh no, I can't listen to music because I have to go and listen to music!"


----------



## SpiderNhan

wondroushippo said:


> Burning in something with "Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt" is the kind of irony I love
> 
> I'm excited for my Dragonfly Red to get in tomorrow, but I have a concert to go to tomorrow night, which will keep me from listening to it much right away. "Oh no, I can't listen to music because I have to go and listen to music!"


 
 Bring the Red and hold it up like a lighter. Burn it in!
  
 Meanwhile, in the wee morning hours, accompanied by the faint background harmonics of early rising songbirds and the lead-boot soft shoe of the upstairs neighbor I do detect the slightest hint of a hiss via an Asus Zenbook USB 3.0 port. Not so much a hiss like a cat person would perform to display her disapproval of you, but more like a low frequency hum achievable, possibly, by playing Barry White through a subwoofer that only reproduced frequencies 40hz and below. I had to unplug my IEMs from the Red just to make sure I was hearing it.


----------



## jnorris

Some headphones are like that.  I'm building a headphone-specific gainclone amp and it sounds great - nice and quiet - until I hook up my Shure SE535's to it.  Then I hear all the buzzes and hums that are masked by the other headphones.  I'm going to have to try moving the transformer to another enclosure to minimize the noise.


----------



## SpiderNhan

It's not bad or distracting in any way. I actually needed near silent conditions to even detect it and more than anything it just sounds like something with an electrical charge running through it. Unlike the hiss I get from my other sources I can only detect this hum in ideal conditions and only if I'm really listening for it.

It's a non-issue and I only brought it up because, technically, the Red is not dead silent, but it's damn close. Considering the higher output power of the Red, the Black might actually achieve full ninja capability.


----------



## berryjuice

I just received my Dragonfly Red and using it with 64Audio A12. I agree that the red is not dead silent but it is really really close.

 The 2 problems I have is the low volume I get when using the Red with the A12 and the bloated bass.
  
 Don't get me wrong, the volume is enough for comfortable listening but it's not as loud as my other amps or even the integrated laptop sound. It's like I can only used DF Red for only chilling and enjoying music but not when I want to crank up the volume. I used foobar with the laptop and with UAPP/Poweramp with Samsung Edge 7 and I get the same volume level.
  
 Additionally, the first thing I noticed when I popped in the DF Red is the bloated bass to the point it gets muddy at times. I'm fairly disappointed with the DF Red so far but I will still give it a few days before I decide if I keep it.
  
 I'm not really sure what is happening but can someone explain why this is happening?


----------



## andrewski

Check the hardware volume level in UAPP, don't use poweramp


----------



## berryjuice

It did improved


andrewski said:


> Check the hardware volume level in UAPP, don't use poweramp


 
 This fixed it. Thanks!
  
 Still can't figure the setting for foobar using wasapi.


----------



## Scrimstar

Is the 1.5 better than the 1.2?
  
 And are both 1.5 and RED phone compatible?


----------



## andrewski

Yes and Yes


----------



## theintrospect

andrewski said:


> Yes and Yes



1.5 ?


----------



## dacari

How really works the 64 volume steps? for ex. Windows has until 100, android only has 15 steps, many apps have they own internal volume, UAPP has a volume slider.  Can't figure it out how to adjust between the 64 steps or really is the volume is from the device?


----------



## stuck limo

As someone who wasn't impressed by the 1.2, I'd love some comparisons between the Red and that one.


----------



## wondroushippo

theintrospect said:


> 1.5 ?


 
 The Dragonfly Black is otherwise known as the 1.5.
  


dacari said:


> How really works the 64 volume steps? for ex. Windows has until 100, android only has 15 steps, many apps have they own internal volume, UAPP has a volume slider.  Can't figure it out how to adjust between the 64 steps or really is the volume is from the device?


 
 My guess is that it adjusts/corresponds to whatever step is as close as possible as the system volume. I'd ask Audioquest, their Facebook page is pretty responsive to questions.
  
 --
  
 Also, I gotta say I like my Red so far. Works perfectly out of my iPhone (even with my Fiio L19 and micro-USB to female USB-A adapter, which can be finnicky). I think the amp is less revealing than the O2 I typically use, but the DAC is a lot more revealing/less aggressive in the treble than the Sound Blaster E5 I was using as a DAC recently. So at home, I'm using a combo of the Red + O2 right now.
  
 I might pick up the JitterBug to test with my laptop as there might be some SLIGHT hiss when music is playing, but I can't tell 100%. It's barely enough to bother me, and it's nowhere as bad as the DACport HD, which is particularly problematic with IEMs.


----------



## SpiderNhan

dacari said:


> How really works the 64 volume steps? for ex. Windows has until 100, android only has 15 steps, many apps have they own internal volume, UAPP has a volume slider.  Can't figure it out how to adjust between the 64 steps or really is the volume is from the device?



Good question. I have no idea. I haven't used it much with my PC or laptop, but on my Galaxy S6 Active via Google Play Music, YouTube, and MX Player I have to crank the volume to 13-14 out of 15 or else it's too quiet. Onkyo HF Player is super loud and I'm only able to go up 2-3 steps out of 15 before it's deafening. UAPP has the best control via "Hardware Volume" and the gain slider under EQ, but still doesn't achieve 64 steps.


----------



## CJ Song

Hi
I originally bought the dragonfly 1.2 for my laptop but i ended up using it more with my phone (galaxy s4 9500).

Main reason being, its small enough to be manageable in my pocket with my phone, and the sound quality increase (or enjoyment of music) is well worth the additional hassle.

It only works with my phone using a dedicated player that interfaces the hardware directly (usb player pro).

All my headphones and IEM are easy to drive (beyer t51p, momentum, shure 30), they all improved substantially in all aspects compared to my phone output (including my other phones such as iphone4, 5).

In terms of volume, i noticed that on my cans the hardware volume needs to be at 30pct (instead of 70 pct when directly using phone and android or apple interface), overall very happy !


----------



## hybride

Recieved the DRAGONFLY RED DAC. I expected a step up, but it disappoints me. V1.2 sounds fluid and musical to my ears. The RED more harsch and unpleasant?
  
 From what I have been told the Microchip USB receiver chip has questionable clock/jitter spec's.


----------



## SpiderNhan

Will you elaborate further? What headphones do you use and what's your source? The Red is the first Dragonfly I've ever used so your comparisons will be interesting.


----------



## god-bluff

Will these new generation Dragonflys work properly with Android ie without having to resort to USBAPP ?
  
 Can they be used in conjunction with, for instance Spotify and internet radio or the phones's native apps, in my case Sony Music (pka Walkman);  with full control over the volume ?


----------



## SpiderNhan

Whether or not it'll work with all apps is phone dependant. I only have 2 devices I can test with, Samsung Galaxy S6 Active, stock 5.1.1, and Samsung Galaxy Note, Candy ROM 5.1.1.

The S6 will play with all apps, but I experienced a glitch once where the sound became garbled and distorted requiring a reboot to fix. The Note only works via UAPP or Onkyo HF Player.


----------



## dacari

Received my red today, enjoying it!! Great balance between transparency, accuracy but at the same time musicality without any sign of coldness.


----------



## JesseA

stuck limo said:


> As someone who wasn't impressed by the 1.2, I'd love some comparisons between the Red and that one.




Also interested in someone that has some insight on this


----------



## willyvlyminck

I agree, but for those exclusively listening to their iTunes on their iPhones/Pods, the Relisten app will do at only 25% of the price. I was happy with the results of my Bandcamp collection.Answer to Dacari


----------



## raydenray

jessea said:


> Also interested in someone that has some insight on this


 
  
 I’ve been using Dragonfly 1.2 for a year now (never used the 1.0), 95% of time on my cell phone, 
 so it was a no brainer I had to get the new one with less power consumption. And on top of that,
 they claimed a superior sound.
  
 So I got the red on April 28th. My first impressions in all honesty was deception. I think I was expecting 
 something much better than 1.2. We all know, 1.2 is a great DAC for its price and portability, so I think my
 expectation where too high. 
  
 I’ve been giving this new DAC some time for to get used to. After 2 days of listening, I can say I’m glad I 
 bought this product. It offers better instrument separations, clarity and dynamics over 1.2. The difference 
 is not like day and night, it is subtle, but there is one. 
  
 Maybe I need to burn in the DAC for a few days? I don’t know ;p
  
 I’m using it with Samsung Note 5, UAPP and FLAC songs and Westones W60 IEM. 
  
 On the UAPP app, the output volume is lower. When in 1.2 I had could range between 30 and 45% of volume,
 I have to go now to 65-70% for same volume. But it is ok with me, since 100% volume even with DG Red and 
 my ears explode. 
  
 Even though my Note 5 has a Wolfson DAC, the dragonflys with UAPP give much better sound and feels more alive. 
  
 Sorry for my English, it is not my first language


----------



## SpiderNhan

raydenray said:


> I’ve been using Dragonfly 1.2 for a year now (never used the 1.0), 95% of time on my cell phone,
> so it was a no brainer I had to get the new one with less power consumption. And on top of that,
> they claimed a superior sound.
> 
> ...



 

Perhaps the lower volume is because of the lower power consumption? Do you notice a difference in battery drain between the 1.2 and the Red?

UAPP's volume control is very precise if you play with the "Hardware Volume" and EQ gain slider in conjunction with the software volume controls. My Red drives both my 8 ohm Dunu DN-200J and my 62 ohm AKG Q701 without a hitch, but I definitely have to play with the Hardware Volume when switching between the two.

Concerning volume issues with Android, I'll give a quick run down of my experiences so far.

Android system through USB OTG is limited to 15 volume steps regardless of app used. This applies to Google Play Music, YouTube, MX Player, etc. I find that the volume output is quite low, even with the 8 ohm Dunus, and I must use volume step 13 out of 15 to get listenable levels. Strangely, the volume difference between steps 14 and 15 is significant! It's like going up 4 or 5 volume steps at once. Perhaps max Android volume = Line Out?

UAPP, as I've mentioned, offers the most amount of volume control although the software volume is limited to 20 steps. However, the amount of volume allotted to the 20 steps is adjustable to varying degrees when combined with the Hardware Volume and EQ gain sliders. I haven't calculated how many levels are available in Hardware Volume, but the slider moves in small increments and I have yet to go past 60% to attain optimal listening levels with my gear. I don't have any 300 ohm headphones to test, but with how loud it drives my Q701s I imagine it won't be a problem.

Poweramp alpha build 703 allows the user to adjust the amount of volume steps in software. The levels are 30, 50, 76 and 100. It works incredibly well but, on my phone at least, only works when Poweramp is open in the foreground. When the screen is off the volume steps will default to Android's 15. A neat feature with the alpha 703 build is variable output options including a hi-res option for phones that support it. I don't want to delve too deeply into the options here as they are a bit complicated, but sound quality on the alpha build is better than the official release and even its DAC output sounds better. Volume is still a problem though. Using the Poweramp EQ I have to drag the preamp up to full and put volume up to 75%+ for listenable levels with the 32 ohm V-MODA M-100. Sound is just as good as UAPP, but the volume control isn't there.

So, for the time being, UAPP is still the best option for Dragonfly.

Edit: I just noticed that UAPP's 20 volume steps will default to 15 on my Galaxy S6 Active if it's not in the foreground just like Poweramp alpha. It does not do this on my Galaxy Note running Candy ROM. I guess it's a stock Samsung thing.


----------



## dacari

> Poweramp alpha build 703 allows the user to adjust the amount of volume steps in software. The levels are 30, 50, 76 and 100. It works incredibly well but, on my phone at least, only works when Poweramp is open in the foreground. When the screen is off the volume steps will default to Android's 15. A neat feature with the alpha 703 build is variable output options including a hi-res option for phones that support it. I don't want to delve too deeply into the options here as they are a bit complicated, but sound quality on the alpha build is better than the official release and even its DAC output sounds better. Volume is still a problem though. Using the Poweramp EQ I have to drag the preamp up to full and put volume up to 75%+ for listenable levels with the 32 ohm V-MODA M-100. Sound is just as good as UAPP, but the volume control isn't there.


 
  
 That's weird since the volume seems well integrated in Android system when Poweramp is open in the foreground, as you said. With my V10 and Moto G 2015, both work perfectly with the screen off.
  
 Concerning to the poor results opinions, in my case having owned a Mojo, the Red is far beyond its price. Maybe people have too high expectations, even so, for me I won't be disappointed. This kind of airy but with body sound reminds me the JDS C5D.


----------



## canali

willyvlyminck said:


> I agree, but for those exclusively listening to their iTunes on their iPhones/Pods, the Relisten app will do at only 25% of the price. I was happy with the results of my Bandcamp collection.Answer to Dacari


 
 drag relisten is not available in canada
  
 guess i'll have to seek out another app for my nexus 5 and dragonfly
 (using spotify and itunes)
  
 poweramp?
  
 anything else someone can recommend please?


----------



## SpiderNhan

_Copied from my post in this thread._
  
 Dunu DN-2000J and Mee Audio A151p 2nd Gen. sound great with the Red.
  
 Here are some quick impressions using my Galaxy S6 Active>DN-2000J with and without Red.
  
 Without
 -No detectable hiss or noise.
 -No EMI.
 -A bit less resolution up top
 -Harsher highs. Sssibilance.
 -More mid-bass presence.
 -Less energy.
 -More 2-dimensional sound stage.
  
 With
 -Slight hum when music is silent, but only noticeable if you're listening for it.
 -No EMI. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 -Crystal clear and sparkly treble.
 -No harshness and sibilance is ELIMINATED(confirmed this by listening to a couple NPR podcasts).
 -Less mid-bass and bass presence overall. It still goes pretty deep, but less oomph.
 -Very energetic, almost aggressive signature.
 -Wider sound stage with more depth.
  
 Galaxy S6 Active

  
 Galaxy S6 Active + Dragonfly Red


----------



## Hubert481

Is there any comparement-review between
1.0
1.2
Red

???
Thank you!


----------



## Xstream

I've got the Dragonfly Black and Red as a trial. So far i've just played around with the Black & Red on my Macbook Pro. I will later try it out connected to my Samsung Galaxy S7 as well. 
 First impression isn't that positive. Actually it sounds worse then directly to my Macbook Pro. 
 Maybe it needs more run-in time to judge it better, so i will let it run in for a while. 
  
 A few things i've noticed so far with the BLACK:
 - The sound is more full, more bassy, but also more muddy an not as detailed as the MBP. It sounds more as a equalizer setting than a big DAC improvement.
 - The background noise the MBP gives a bit is gone, so that's positive. 
  
 With the RED:
 - The placement of sound is different. More up forward and "live like" i guess. Sound is weirdly more focused on the right, not the center. 
 - Sound is more neutral and less bassy, but not better then the MBP which has more clarity and balance. Although here the background noise is gone too, so that's good. 
  
 Using it with IEM's Phonak Audeo PFE-232's. So with more power hungry headphones it may have a bigger and better impact.
  
 Both still feel quite out of balance and not an improvement. It may need just more run-in time. And i'm sure it will give a bigger impact on a smartphone of course. So more later.


----------



## Hubert481

I dont know, if this was already posted - Proper Warm-Up for Ideal Listening and Measurement Evaluations
http://www.audioquest.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Phase-Noise-Jitter-Report-0317-14.pdf


Do you have the newest firmware on the stick?


----------



## Xstream

hubert481 said:


> Do you have the newest firmware on the stick?


 
 Haven't found any firmware on the AudioQuest website.


----------



## CactusPete23

-> RE: Hubert481   
  
 Thanks for the link  !  Interesting that it takes a warm-up period for a DAC to sound best.  
  
 Does this mean that every time a DAC is used that it won't sound best until it is left on for 24 hours?  
  
 Wouldn't this would kind of defeat the purpose of a small portable DAC like the Dragonfly Red?  I mean, I'd like great sound after a few minutes at most when using a phone or computer with the Dragonfly.    
  
 OR am I misunderstanding?


----------



## god-bluff

396629 said:


> Anyway, I have returned it. May look at the Black at £89.99 or the cheaper HRT dSp.




Bought a Geek Out 720 for same price in the end and I'm pretty happy pretty impressive hot running little thing. It's mainly computer only but does run otg off my Moto X.


----------



## SpiderNhan

cactuspete23 said:


> -> RE: Hubert481
> 
> Thanks for the link  !  Interesting that it takes a warm-up period for a DAC to sound best.
> 
> ...


 
 The 24 hour burn in, which AQ recommends in their instruction manual, is a one-time thing much like headphone burn-in. Most solid state amps do not require warm up after they are broken in. Tube amps, on the other hand, require anywhere from 10 minutes to an hour of warm-up to reach their optimal sound.


----------



## GerMan

xstream said:


> I've got the Dragonfly Black and Red as a trial. So far i've just played around with the Black & Red on my Macbook Pro...
> First impression isn't that positive. Actually it sounds worse then directly to my Macbook Pro.
> ...
> A few things i've noticed so far with the BLACK:
> ...


 
  
 Well, to be honest, same experience with the Red here.
  
 I'm quite disappointed. Lots of hype over months, the sound was promised to improve enormously over 1.2. I used to hear with dragonfly 1.2 and AQ jitter bug on PC and could not wait for the new Red to appear. Well the difference is, the Red has more power, is louder, at he same time a bit darker, more veiled. Everything seems to be out of balance, no details, no separation of instruments. The new dragonflies were invented to work with mobile phones imho, that's the hole thing. Users with pc were promised a sound improvement over 1.2 at the same time which I cannot confirm at all and is only a marketing statement. I'm using AKG K-702 headphones, quite a precise and resolving machine. Hearing flac files with JRiver on PC with WASAPI, all settings optimized. Music is no longer flowing somehow. Heard the ifi micro idsd which is a LARGE step forward. The red is a step back to me.
  
 Burning in is never a solution in my experience if a gear doesn't sound good within the first seconds which the Dragonfly 1.2 did! Although there is a certain improvement with burning in a gear, it doesn't turn a bad soundig device into a good sounding device. 
  
 I will return it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Greets GerMan


----------



## canali

interesting the contrasts....so i emailed audioquest an invitation to join this site and have a rep on this and other AQ related threads
 similar to what the other major players (chord, iFi etc) do, to resolve issues, drum up more sales and increase good PR.
  
_friendly suggestion: why don't you join the headfi.org forum as does chord and ifi  on headfi.org for their own product threads?_
_ imo that way you build better customer rapport and also resolve people's queries...i'm surprised_
_no one is doing this from AQ, given the popularity of its products. esp with the newly released dragonflys._
_If however someone is, then i apologize for not being attentive._
  
_i'll post this to headfi.org too_
  
_http://www.head-fi.org/t/805832/new-dragonfly-black-and-red-discussion/150#post_12563732_
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/617241/audioquest-dragonfly-review-affordable-outstanding-tiny-dac-amp/2355#post_12560617
  
_just a friendly headsup to increase good cust relations._
  
_cheers_
_canali_


----------



## canali

email reply i just received.
  
_Thanks JW. _
  
_we are all at the Munich audio show. We'll jump in soon. 

Regards,_  
_Steve Silberman_
_AudioQuest_

  
 Quote:


canali said:


> interesting the contrasts....so i emailed audioquest an invitation to join this site and have a rep on this and other AQ related threads
> similar to what the other major players (chord, iFi etc) do, to resolve issues, drum up more sales and increase good PR.
> 
> _riendly suggestion: why don't you join the headfi.org forum as does chord and ifi  on headfi.org for their own product threads?_
> ...


----------



## delfine22

Im thinking of picking up one of these as I'm looking for something portable that will give me a bit of "bass boost" and "fulness" for my EX1000s. Its to bad I can't use my Panasonic Walkman which had a boost setting that was perfect, now Im looking to replicate it with something else. I like the portability of this unit and hope its what Im looking for.


----------



## SpiderNhan

delfine22 said:


> Im thinking of picking up one of these as I'm looking for something portable that will give me a bit of "bass boost" and "fulness" for my EX1000s. Its to bad I can't use my Panasonic Walkman which had a boost setting that was perfect, now Im looking to replicate it with something else. I like the portability of this unit and hope its what Im looking for.


 
 I haven't heard the Black, which people are reporting has a warmer sound, but the Red definitely has bit less mid-bass slam than either of my smartphones' headphone outs. The bass extends low and headphones with good sub-bass extension will show it, but it's a neutral tuning and not emphasized, at least not to my ears. If bass boost is your intention then the Red is not for you.


----------



## Jtyoung

i picked up a dragonfly 1.2 yesterday. A great and portable little dac for sure! Had a chance to do a quick listen to the 1.2 and also the black version in the shop. Quick impressions on the differences are: the black is louder, more bassy + a bit more muddy. The difference in soundstage/detail seemed fairly minimal between the two. Both were leagues better than my laptop headphone out. Def night and day after 5 seconds. (small 11inch asus laptop).  All in all they both seem more enjoyable to listen to than using my previous calyxm as a computer dac. I dont use with a smartphone so cant comment on that. £69 in the UK


----------



## god-bluff

Wish I'd kept that 1.2 after all. Where did you get it for £69 ?


jtyoung said:


> i picked up a dragonfly 1.2 yesterday. A great and portable little dac for sure! Had a chance to do a quick listen to the 1.2 and also the black version in the shop. Quick impressions on the differences are: the black is louder, more bassy + a bit more muddy. The difference in soundstage/detail seemed fairly minimal between the two. Both were leagues better than my laptop headphone out. Def night and day after 5 seconds. (small 11inch asus laptop).  All in all they both seem more enjoyable to listen to than using my previous calyxm as a computer dac. I dont use with a smartphone so cant comment on that. £69 in the UK


----------



## G_T_J

Hi guys,
  
 Has anyone compared the original DF with the DF black?
  
 I have been using my original DF with my Note 4 and my 2 IEMs (RE-400 and Flare R2Pros) and the synergy is out of this world!
 My only problem is that it does suck a lot of power and I have to have a spare Note batter in my pocket when I'm on the go.
  
 The new DF black promises much lower consumption. The thing is how it sounds compared to the first DF, Even if they are very close one another, I'd still pull the trigger.
 I'm also considering selling my DAP (DX90) in favour of this setup. Yes, it's that good.
  
 Many thanks.


----------



## god-bluff

g_t_j said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Has anyone compared the original DF with the DF black?
> 
> ...




See 2 posts above!

(EDIT comparison of 1.2 that is SORRY)

The new generation are getting some mixed feedback


----------



## G_T_J

396629 said:


> See 2 posts above!
> 
> The new generation are getting some mixed feedback


 
 Yep. This is what I've just read.
  
 There are comparisons with the 1.2  version but couldn't find any with the original DF.
 I'd get it even if the new is equally good to the original (if not better) but I wouldn't want to... downgrade.


----------



## Foolwolf

Nice review! 
 I got the RED and I really like it. Hearing that the battery drainage wasn't that much different after all between the two made the decision for me to go with RED. Really nice nifty little thing!


----------



## delfine22

spidernhan said:


> I haven't heard the Black, which people are reporting has a warmer sound, but the Red definitely has bit less mid-bass slam than either of my smartphones' headphone outs. The bass extends low and headphones with good sub-bass extension will show it, but it's a neutral tuning and not emphasized, at least not to my ears. If bass boost is your intention then the Red is not for you.


 

 Thanks, I will look out for the Black one perhaps. Just a bit of bass is all I need!


----------



## crazywipe

I got the BLACK and I am somewhat disappointed for the driving capabilities. The volume output is the same as my macbook air, I was expecting something more to be honest. I tried many iems: eph100, re400, ie80, se215, Pistons3 all with good results. Beyer t51p, Audio Technica m50x, good too.
 The sound is more "open" and "detailed". Also the bass seems to have better texture and articulation. (compared to my Iphone 6 and Macbook air)
 The problem is with Sennheiser hd 600 and Fostex t50RP mk3. The 600s is almost good I just miss a bit of volume, with the t50RP mk3 I got only moderate listening volume.
  
 With the Fiio Apen I can drive all them easily. 
  
 I don't know... maybe I need the RED.


----------



## SpiderNhan

Red drives my Q701s just fine.


----------



## G_T_J

crazywipe said:


> I got the BLACK and I am somewhat disappointed for the driving capabilities. The volume output is the same as my macbook air, I was expecting something more to be honest. I tried many iems: eph100, re400, ie80, se215, Pistons3 all with good results. Beyer t51p, Audio Technica m50x, good too.
> The sound is more "open" and "detailed". Also the bass seems to have better texture and articulation. (compared to my Iphone 6 and Macbook air)
> The problem is with Sennheiser hd 600 and Fostex t50RP mk3. The 600s is almost good I just miss a bit of volume, with the t50RP mk3 I got only moderate listening volume.
> 
> ...


 
 How is the synergy of the DF BLACK with RE-400 in particular?


----------



## crazywipe

g_t_j said:


> How is the synergy of the DF BLACK with RE-400 in particular?


 
 I think the pairing it's good. The Black has a nice low-end and it adds a bit of weight to the ruler-flat bass re400.


----------



## G_T_J

crazywipe said:


> I think the pairing it's good. The Black has a nice low-end and it adds a bit of weight to the ruler-flat bass re400.


 
 Thanks.
 I'm asking because the synergy of the RE-400 with the original DF 1.0 is amazing. If they perform similarly I will consider to get the black for its less energy consumption.


----------



## crazywipe

Hope someone can answer: In % how much louder is the RED more than the BLACK?


----------



## Xstream

I've returned both the Black and Red. 
 I preferred the sound straight out of my Macbook Pro more. 
 Also with my Galaxy S7 it didn't add enough and i prefer the sound of my Fiio X3, which then renders the DF again useless. 
 In my experience it just adds power and some sort of a filter on the sound, like a EQ setting. To me it didn't add enough to justify the price.
 The RED is more refined than the BLACK, but considering the price i'd personally invest in a different DAC. Quite disappointed after the raving reviews.


----------



## jnorris

xstream said:


> I've returned both the Black and Red.
> I preferred the sound straight out of my Macbook Pro more.
> Also with my Galaxy S7 it didn't add enough and i prefer the sound of my Fiio X3, which then renders the DF again useless.
> In my experience it just adds power and some sort of a filter on the sound, like a EQ setting. To me it didn't add enough to justify the price.
> The RED is more refined than the BLACK, but considering the price i'd personally invest in a different DAC. Quite disappointed after the raving reviews.


 
 These negative reviews are disheartening.  I've been using version 1.2 for a year or so and was hoping that the Red would be a reasonable upgrade.  Now it seems that the difference in sound quality may be minimal at best, or may even be degraded.  I may try it anyway since my mileage may vary.


----------



## canali

i'm going to go listen to the new black and red dragonflys, alongside the chord mojo, this saturday at a local retailer.
 ...just will use my LG nexus 5 with a generica OTG cable...hopefully I'll hear some significant differences vs standalone phone.
 source will  only be spotify, however


----------



## jnorris

I would be very surprised if you hear any differences under those circumstances, but it can't hurt to try.


----------



## JWolf

canali said:


> i'm going to go listen to the new black and red dragonflys, alongside the chord mojo, this saturday at a local retailer.
> ...just will use my LG nexus 5 with a generica OTG cable...hopefully I'll hear some significant differences vs standalone phone.
> source will  only be spotify, however


 
  
 Why are you using a crap source? Spotify is worthless as a demo source. You need to use a high quality source and Spotify is not it.


----------



## god-bluff

jwolf said:


> Why are you using a crap source? Spotify is worthless as a demo source. You need to use a high quality source and Spotify is not it.




320 ogg vorbis is not cr*p. Don't know where people get this cr*p from. It's pretty bl**dy good really. That's probably enough expletives for one post


----------



## canali

396629 said:


> 320 ogg vorbis is not cr*p. Don't know where people get this cr*p from. It's pretty bl**dy good really. That's probably enough expletives for one post


 
  
  
 even when spotify (premium, which I used) is compared to Tidal (and i've tried both) i don't find significant diffs.
 audio streaming is the way of the future imo and the bitrate transmissions for better quality sound will only improve as well.
 sure i also have 400 itunes, too, which I'll also use.
 I don't have any flac downloads or whatnot..just got back into audio about 1 yrs ago..before then had given away alot of my CD collections to charity.
 sure i can always download/buy from various sources, but increasingly i'm not into owning any longer (at least for now)...love the freedom and new exposure that both spotify and tidal, for that matter has afforded me into new venues/artists.
  
 but am also looking at bandcamp...feel free to suggest other more cost affordable but also good quality sources for downloads (vs streaming)
 i'm open to suggestions.


----------



## JWolf

> Originally Posted by *canali* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> feel free to suggest other more cost affordable but also good quality sources for downloads (vs streaming)
> i'm open to suggestions.


 
  
 You could sign up for  HDTracks and download their free sampler. That would give you some good quality music to use to test the different DACs.


----------



## god-bluff

I'm actually quite happy with my 'free' Amazon Prime Music which is on average 256mp3 , I believe,  for occasional streaming. Not a full range of artists but I can always find something intersting and new to listen to. Sounds very decent on a mobile phone or compter + dac/amp.  Having said that most of my purchased music is in the form of CD (cheaper than downloads on the whole), lossless rips of those or Hi Res/ lossless downloads mainly (again cheaper on Qobuz than AAC on iTunes Edit _AND_ HD Tracks!). Its about the music  I suppose not analysing the quality of the files.


----------



## canali

thanks gents...unfortunately as per HD tracks: not available in Canada


----------



## waynes world

canali said:


> thanks gents...unfortunately as per HD tracks: not available in Canada


 
  
Official Free FLAC File Music Sharing Thread


----------



## stuck limo

jwolf said:


> Why are you using a crap source? Spotify is worthless as a demo source. You need to use a high quality source and Spotify is not it.


 
  
 Sorry, this is false information. Spotify is perfectly good if you're using Extreme mode.


----------



## JWolf

stuck limo said:


> Sorry, this is false information. Spotify is perfectly good if you're using Extreme mode.


 
  
 Not when you are auditioning DACs. It is unacceptable.


----------



## god-bluff

I'd have thought it would be a good test for a Dac using lower bit rates if 320 kbps can really be considered that ? If the Dac/ amp is any good you will be hard pushed to tell the difference 





jwolf said:


> Not when you are auditioning DACs. It is unacceptable.




Depending on the headphones and listening environment and the ultimate link in the audio chain; your ears!


----------



## JWolf

396629 said:


> I'd have thought it would be a good test for a Dac using lower bit rates if 320 kbps can really be considered that ? If the Dac/ amp is any good you will be hard pushed to tell the difference
> Depending on the headphones and listening environment and the ultimate link in the audio chain; your ears!


 
  
 You'll never convince me that lossy is good for using to demo audio equipment because it isn't good for demoing audio equipment.


----------



## theintrospect

stuck limo said:


> Sorry, this is false information. Spotify is perfectly good if you're using Extreme mode.



Sorry, THIS information is wrong. Spotify's quality on extreme is inadequate; Tidal, yes.


----------



## stuck limo

theintrospect said:


> Sorry, THIS information is wrong. Spotify's quality on extreme is inadequate; Tidal, yes.


 
  
 I use Spotify to audition equipment including DACs all the time. It's perfectly adequate and my audiophile partner in crime also uses 320kbps to audition as well. He's got a $4K system and uses 320 almost exclusively and it sounds phenomenal. And yes, you can tell the differences between the equipment.
  
 Some people may not be able to hear the differences which is perfectly fine; we are not those people.


----------



## Deni5

jwolf said:


> You'll never convince me that lossy is good for using to demo audio equipment because it isn't good for demoing audio equipment.


 
  
 You make it seem like there is a night and day difference between redbook lossless and Spotify Premium 320 lossy. There is a difference but it's very subtle depending on how complicated the music is. I have most of the DACs mentioned and can hear a clear difference between them all by using Spotify Premium - don't need 24bit 192kHz to pick up pros and cons of a DAC. As long as you have good test music you are very familiar with you'll be fine. Sure, you can use higher quality tracks to compare but I wouldn't call it a 'must'.


----------



## canali

theintrospect said:


> Sorry, THIS information is wrong. Spotify's quality on extreme is inadequate; Tidal, yes.


 
 sorry not to my ears (we're all different, I realize)
  
 I've tried all three (spotify extreme, apple and tidal, both during promos)
 there is not that significant difference at all imo...least of all to warrant Tidal charging 2x the price.
  
 see the blind testing below (video) of 3 subjects listening to apple, spotify and tidal.
 despite this being over 1 yr old, i still think the findings are relevant.
What sounds better: Apple Music, Tidal, or Spotify?  
 http://www.theverge.com/2015/7/7/8872115/apple-music-tidal-spotify-audio-quality-test


----------



## stuck limo

deni5 said:


> You make it seem like there is a night and day difference between redbook lossless and Spotify Premium 320 lossy. There is a difference but it's very subtle depending on how complicated the music is. I have most of the DACs mentioned and can hear a clear difference between them all by using Spotify Premium - don't need 24bit 192kHz to pick up pros and cons of a DAC. As long as you have good test music you are very familiar with you'll be fine. Sure, you can use higher quality tracks to compare but I wouldn't call it a 'must'.


 
  
 It is extremely subtle. You have to be doing an A/B test to really tell the differences.


----------



## XLR8

hubert481 said:


> Is there any comparement-review between
> 1.0
> 1.2
> Red
> ...



I have 1&1.2 ..
The 1.0 is better IMHO.
YMMV.
Red what DAC is in it? Sabre or other?


----------



## waynes world

I'm looking forward to someone someday comparing the dragonfly's to the ZuperDAC.


----------



## JWolf

stuck limo said:


> I use Spotify to audition equipment including DACs all the time. It's perfectly adequate and my audiophile partner in crime also uses 320kbps to audition as well. He's got a $4K system and uses 320 almost exclusively and it sounds phenomenal. And yes, you can tell the differences between the equipment.
> 
> Some people may not be able to hear the differences which is perfectly fine; we are not those people.


 
  
 Using Spotify and 320k MP3 means you are not audiophiles. You'd be better off with a $100 boom box from Walmart,


----------



## G_T_J

xlr8 said:


> I have 1&1.2 ..
> The 1.0 is better IMHO.
> YMMV.
> Red what DAC is in it? Sabre or other?


 
 Can you please point out the differences between 1.0 & 1.2?
 I have the original DF and am super satisfied with it but have always been wondering what am I possibly losing... (?)


----------



## canali

jwolf said:


> stuck limo said:
> 
> 
> > I use Spotify to audition equipment including DACs all the time. It's perfectly adequate and my audiophile partner in crime also uses 320kbps to audition as well. He's got a $4K system and uses 320 almost exclusively and it sounds phenomenal. And yes, you can tell the differences between the equipment.
> ...


 
  
  
 so what in your op is a real 'audiophile'?  
  
 seems even seasoned muscians and artists buy itunes and use streaming...guess they're not real
 audiophiles either.
 http://www.vulture.com/2016/01/25-musicians-on-how-they-stream-music.html
*From Miley Cyrus to Baz Luhrmann, 29 Musicians and Celebs on How They Stream Music* taking this argument to cars, then I guess all those driving some BMW 3 or 5 series are posers, too,.....a 'real driver'  would only
 be behind a porsche turbo 911s...or a ferrari or a lambo...or a Rolls Royce...us the rest of us are wanabees, esp god help all those delusional in their thinking that they're being a real driver behind their mazdas, hondas, acuras, and affinitis.
  
 and your own system...what equipment do you have?
 source (flac etc) might be one thing, but what of the real audiophile equipment translating it?
 i would presume if your home audio system it's not a $50k-100k hi fi system
 then you're not a 'real audiophile' but are somewhat of a poser.
 and if your dap is not some $3k AK380 then you're not really into true audiophile territory, either.
  
 but hey, maybe you can have a great FLAC source and great equipment ....
 but what if the _equipment you use _on your perfect source is overly coloured?
 so what of all those in the 'bassheads' forum, given what many of their members listen to (top end FLAC, etc) gets inevitably twisted out of shape with their bass heavy iems and cans...guess they can't be 'real audiophiles' either
  
 don't get me wrong: _i hear you_ on the sound quality of streaming vs true lossless or CDs etc.  
 but quality level streaming (spotify extreme, tidal)  is not nearly as crap bad as a boombox as your
 hyperbole makes it out to be...and like i said initally: streaming quality will only to get better as this area grows and
 more people demand better bitrate transmissions.  for me streaming has opened up many great new artists/venues to listen to.
 and for many headfiers, to varying degrees, use both...each (lossless etc) and streaming have their place. and for many who like streaming, it's also about convenience and easy access to new material.
  
 i did also try Tidal, btw, and while there was some difference between it and spotify extreme, it just 
 didn't warrant the additional $10 (which i would have paid for had there been truly a significant diff).
  
  lastly just so you know, i'm also trying to fit more loss less in.  
  
 i'll check out those other sites members on here have suggested.


----------



## HerrWallen

Audiophile or not, there are subtle differences between Spotify 320 and a regular mp3 @ 320 imho.
The treble seems smoother, almost a tad smeared in comparison.
I generally find that the sense of air is better contained in high quality flac compared to all of the above.
But, and this is a big but, the quality of source production is also a key factor here.
Badly mastered music sound pretty much the same on high fi as low fi, bad.


----------



## JWolf

Just because someone else buys from iTunes does not means it's OK for testing stereo equipment. What you really want is to pick music that tests the equipment. Music that has good imaging, good dynamics, good bass, good mids, and good highs. Also, you want to pick music that doesn't sound so good and to do that you don't want lossy compressing changing things because it might not be good enough. Like a sizzling high-end, AAC/MP3 is going to change that. So when you want o hear how the stereo equipment handles different things, you want to make sure you have enough of the audio to test. AAC/MP3 changes the soundstage so it's not as good. Instruments do not have the separation they would otherwise. The high-end can be softened by the cutoff. Bass is not as deep, mids are a bit weaker. Lossy changes the music so you lose out. You want music to do what you want it to do and not that it is doing because some of it is gone.


----------



## god-bluff

herrwallen said:


> Audiophile or not, there are subtle differences between Spotify 320 and a regular mp3 @ 320 imho.
> The treble seems smoother, almost a tad smeared in comparison.
> I generally find that the sense of air is better contained in high quality flac compared to all of the above.
> But, and this is a big but, the quality of source production is also a key factor here.
> Badly mastered music sound pretty much the same on high fi as low fi, bad.


 
 Could the difference be due to the OGG Vorbis codec being used by Spotify. At one time before lossless was common OGG was believed to sound smoother less harsh than mp3 at a given, and especially lower, bit rate. I may well be wrong on this point but it sounds good for what it is to me  !


----------



## HerrWallen

396629 said:


> Could the difference be due to the OGG Vorbis codec being used by Spotify. At one time before lossless was common OGG was believed to sound smoother less harsh than mp3 at a given, and especially lower, bit rate. I may well be wrong on this point but it sounds good for what it is to me  !




I didn' know that Spotify used Vorbis but it makes sense, iirc OGG should save both valuable storage-space and licencing costs.

Regarding the characteristics I'll take your word for it, Spotify is my only experience with Vorbis and to be honest I don't know if it's better or not, different absolutely.

No matter what, Spotify is still what I use about 80% of the time and for the most of that time I think it sounds really good.

I have based allot of my purchases on it.


----------



## stuck limo

canali said:


> so what in your op is a real 'audiophile'?
> 
> seems even seasoned muscians and artists buy itunes and use streaming...guess they're not real
> audiophiles either.
> ...


 
  
 On that note, there have been multiple reports of Tidal sounding WORSE than Spotify or Apple Music.
  
 And what of Mastered for iTunes material that actually sounds better than lossless versions? Are we not to use those?
  
 Also, I find that if equipment can make 320kbps material sound amazing, then it'll make the lossless sound even more amazing. If it can handle lesser files well, that is a very good indication of the quality of the equipment.


----------



## canali

Yes i agree...See that verge review.. Even go to the end...that is what the reviewer said of tidal...mixed results in blind testing w Spotify and Apple.



stuck limo said:


> On that note, there have been multiple reports of Tidal sounding WORSE than Spotify or Apple Music.
> 
> And what of Mastered for iTunes material that actually sounds better than lossless versions? Are we not to use those?
> 
> Also, I find that if equipment can make 320kbps material sound amazing, then it'll make the lossless sound even more amazing. If it can handle lesser files well, that is a very good indication of the quality of the equipment.


----------



## GerMan

Really off topic now, could we come back to Dragonfly please


----------



## JWolf

Basically, no streaming services should be used for auditioning stereo equipment. Hand pick your tracks to go audition stereo equipment.


----------



## G_T_J

german said:


> Really off topic now, could we come back to Dragonfly please


 
 I second that...


----------



## willyvlyminck

canali said:


> so what in your op is a real 'audiophile'?
> 
> seems even seasoned muscians and artists buy itunes and use streaming...guess they're not real
> audiophiles either.
> ...


 is it worth to react on such fools who call themselves audiophiles as if it is a kind of religion? I know a lot of producers and sound engineers who use non "audiophile" headphones, as in any business they look for the best price/ quality products to work with, so I rather trust those prople than selfdeclared audiophiles


----------



## willyvlyminck

g_t_j said:


> I second that...


Agree but did react nonethless on the "audiophile" issue


----------



## brent75

I can't think of a more "looking down my nose at you" snooty sentiment than telling people they're not 'audiophiles' based on how they decide to do something. No wonder people make fun of this hobby.
  
 It's one thing to give friendly advice about how you think something should be undertaken, e.g. "if you take high quality tracks stored locally vs streaming, you'll probably have a better chance at discerning differences between options you're considering, and thus making a more informed decision."
  
 But just serving it up under "if you do it that way you're not an audiophile, bro" is laughable.
  
 Besides, I think it's perfectly logical to audition gear based on how you're going to use it. If you're going to stream a lot, it's perfectly acceptable to stream before you buy. If I live in snowy conditions and am buying an SUV, I don't drive it once on dry pavement and call it a day.
  
 The DragonFly Red is awesome -- I use it + the JitterBug all the time! (now we're back on topic)
  
  
 Carry on...


----------



## G_T_J

willyvlyminck said:


> Agree but did react nonethless on the "audiophile" issue


 
 No worries. That's just a never-ending and pretty much pointless debate.


----------



## GoodGucciGoo

Has anyone compared Modi Uber to Dragonfly? I'm still kinda suspicious about the ability of Dragonfly due to its size lol


----------



## G_T_J

goodguccigoo said:


> Has anyone compared Modi Uber to Dragonfly? I'm still kinda suspicious about the ability of Dragonfly due to its size lol


 
 I have never compared them side by side as my modi uber is part of my home cinema/audio system (windows tv box > wyrd > modi2 uber > amp) and I use my original DF 1.1 with my laptop and Android phone.
  
 However, before I got the Modi, I had tried my DF with the above setup. It was too bassy for my taste.
  
 That said, the Modi2 Uber has to be more balanced and neutral than the original DF which is rather more fun sounding.


----------



## GoodGucciGoo

g_t_j said:


> I have never compared them side by side as my modi uber is part of my home cinema/audio system (windows tv box > wyrd > modi2 uber > amp) and I use my original DF 1.1 with my laptop and Android phone.
> 
> However, before I got the Modi, I had tried my DF with the above setup. It was too bassy for my taste.
> 
> That said, the Modi2 Uber has to be more balanced and neutral than the original DF which is rather more fun sounding.


 
 How about the newer Dragonfly red? Have you had a chance to listen to it? I have Vali 2 as my amp and I'm looking for a DAC that goes with it. I'm mainly using HD600 now


----------



## G_T_J

goodguccigoo said:


> How about the newer Dragonfly red? Have you had a chance to listen to it? I have Vali 2 as my amp and I'm looking for a DAC that goes with it. I'm mainly using HD600 now


 
 I haven't heard anything else from the DF series apart from the original.
 I was considering getting the new ''black'' but the reviews are mixed for both new DF's, black and red and I'm quite hesitant.
  
 The original DF is amazing provided that you pair it with neutral equipment. The synergy with Hifiman's RE-400 for example is amazing.  HD600 are said to be neutral so if the first DF is anything to go, then the new ones might suit you as well.


----------



## GoodGucciGoo

g_t_j said:


> I haven't heard anything else from the DF series apart from the original.
> I was considering getting the new ''black'' but the reviews are mixed for both new DF's, black and red and I'm quite hesitant.
> 
> The original DF is amazing provided that you pair it with neutral equipment. The synergy with Hifiman's RE-400 for example is amazing.  HD600 are said to be neutral so if the first DF is anything to go, then the new ones might suit you as well.


 
 Another question that bugs me is the size of DF. I'm not sure how a USB sized DAC can compete with other full-sized DACs.


----------



## G_T_J

goodguccigoo said:


> Another question that bugs me is the size of DF. I'm not sure how a USB sized DAC can compete with other full-sized DACs.


 
 You shouldn't be prejudiced against small DACs due to their size. Some great DAC chips are included in DAP's which retain the small portable factor.
  
 In this case specifically, Modi2 might be the better DAC but from what I have seen so far with these things, the most important part is rather how you pair your equipment.
  
 I'm sure there are more experienced users in here to assist you but imo you could do a lot worse than buy a DF 1.0.  As you are going to use an amp with it (bypassing DF's amp section) I don't see a point buying the red which is said to provide more output power but it's not yet determined whether it is the better one or not between the two. There have not been released many reviews as of now. Besides, if you're lucky, you might find a DF 1.0 (or better 1.1) in very low price. I have seen some sold for very little in the classified section.
  
 On the other hand, if you are willing to pay the extra buck for the DF red and you plan to use it with your desktop rig (paired with your Vali), then the modi is the better solution, both sonically and stylistically (Schiit stack).


----------



## GoodGucciGoo

g_t_j said:


> You shouldn't be prejudiced against small DACs due to their size. Some great DAC chips are included in DAP's which retain the small portable factor.
> 
> In this case specifically, Modi2 might be the better DAC but from what I have seen so far with these things, the most important part is rather how you pair your equipment.
> 
> ...


 
 Gotcha I'll do a bit more research on my own! Thanks for the advice


----------



## JerseyD

jwolf said:


> Basically, no streaming services should be used for auditioning stereo equipment. Hand pick your tracks to go audition stereo equipment.


 
 I know we're away from this inane debate, but people should audition equipment with the type of music files they plan to listen to once they buy that equipment. Besides, we're talking Dragonflies here, not the Chord David DAC. 
  


goodguccigoo said:


> Another question that bugs me is the size of DF. I'm not sure how a USB sized DAC can compete with other full-sized DACs.


 
 Also bear in mind that for its asking price, the Dragonfly is both a DAC and a headphone amp. If you only need a DAC to pair with your Schitt amp, you might consider putting your full budget toward a dedicated DAC to get the best you can afford. (That is not to say that the DAC section of the Dragonfly is not competitive at its low price point, but you have more options than someone who needs the amp function as well.)


----------



## crazywipe

I got the RED today after returning the BLACK. First Impressions are very positive.
  
 The first big difference is: driving capabilities. The RED can drive even full size cans like the Sennheiser HD600 and the T50rp mk3 with good volume and authority, and given the size and the portability of the device, this is impressive. The BLACK was struggling with those and the pairing was no good.
  
 The bass on the RED seems more controlled and less warmer than the BLACK, and the sound is more refined. I played Hotel California flac and the sense of ambience and realism was brilliant.
  
 At my work (in hotel) I was talking with some customers, and I let them listen to the Dragonfly with some crappy pc speakers. 3 of them, they all agree that the sound was much better than my MAC Headphone Out.
  
 For me, I suggest to spend double and get the RED. At the end, it's better sounding, and can drive almost any headphone. You can attach it to the phone and BOOM! Go everywhere.


----------



## LunaC

With the Red and Hd580/600 ear Cups/650 cable ...sounds great off idevices but on the teetering edge of max volume when driving directly. Hopefully AQ can offer a firmware option to give similar option as high gain found on amps. Mind you, it is purely source dependent so the task might have to go to the media-player but when pushing the EQ in Onkyo player, clipping is evident. Yeah, I could use the Fiio monte blanc iem or E5 but intent is to have less of a cable mess. 

On the more traditional phone..RHA20i , Klipsch x20i, QC25... Plentiful volume headroom is found. 

 The monte blanc still improves the SQ for the Hd580 and x20i(<--very surprised at how the reveal amplification btw)


----------



## meetpatel3686

crazywipe said:


> I got the RED today after returning the BLACK. First Impressions are very positive.
> 
> The first big difference is: driving capabilities. The RED can drive even full size cans like the Sennheiser HD600 and the T50rp mk3 with good volume and authority, and given the size and the portability of the device, this is impressive. The BLACK was struggling with those and the pairing was no good.
> 
> ...


 
 since you've also auditioned the black,can you say the sound quality improvent of red over black only for iems?


----------



## crazywipe

RED is more balanced sound. Black is more warmer sounding. Soundstage is better on RED, and sound is a bit more refined. Honestly, I will go for RED even for iem, it's simply a better device IMHO.


----------



## Frederick Jones

Anyone word on output impedance of either new model? Anyone paired with SE535?


----------



## wondroushippo

frederick jones said:


> Anyone word on output impedance of either new model? Anyone paired with SE535?


 
 Yeah, unfortunately nothing published or third-party measured yet, but my ATH-IM02 which has an impedance curve that's all over the damn map, sounds wacky to me even out of something like the iPhone 6 Plus with its 3.2ohm impedance, and I have no issues with the DF Red with it, so it's probably getting proper damping.


----------



## GoldenTooth

esm87 said:


> Hi guys, my setup right now is s6 edge plus, sabre hifimediy android dac into cayin c5.
> 
> Lastweek I picked up the chord mojo, ive tried everything I know of from using different music players such as uapp to tidal HIFI and the sound quality is the same. I swear I must be doing something wrong.
> 
> ...




At last some one with similar hardware to note 5. , man i wanna ask you does your dacs improve youe s6 plus audio quality? Over your build in wm1840 ?


----------



## GoldenTooth

Guys please help anyone know if this improves audio on galaxy note 5 ? Or galaxy s6?
I have low impedence $40 earphones i dont care about amplification


----------



## SpiderNhan

goldentooth said:


> Guys please help anyone know if this improves audio on galaxy note 5 ? Or galaxy s6?
> I have low impedence $40 earphones i dont care about amplification


 
 I use the Dragonfly Red with my Galaxy S6 Active. From everything I've read the S6 Active is supposed to have all the same components as the regular S6, but I'm not 100% sure about that claim. With USB Audio Player Pro as my music player the main differences I notice between the S6A's headphone out and the DFR is:
  
 S6A - More midbass, although there is less texture and the subass doesn't extend as deeply. Flatter sound stage.
  
 DFR - Less midbass, but more subass like the sound spectrum has been stretched out. Much more treble energy. I wouldn't call it bright, just more crisp and alive. More airiness, larger sound stage and better instrument layering. And much driving power.


----------



## AJTSin

Posted this in the other DF thread.

 I just picked up a RED today and am testing it out both on a Macbook playing WAV and AIFF files from iTunes and iPhone using Apple Music...
  
 First couple negatives:
  
 - I can't turn the volume up full on either device without significant distortion is this normal? It sounds fine @ <90~ percent...
  
 - I both on iPhone and Macbook Pro (iTunes) am noticing a ton of clicks and pops. Kinda like vinyl pops but with a bit of a metallic tone to them. Surely this isn't normal?


----------



## SpiderNhan

ajtsin said:


> Posted this in the other DF thread.
> 
> I just picked up a RED today and am testing it out both on a Macbook playing WAV and AIFF files from iTunes and iPhone using Apple Music...
> 
> ...


 
 I've never gone past 80% on the volume since my head might implode, but the pops and clicks shouldn't be normal. However I am a PC/Android user, so Apple problems I know of not.


----------



## NineToTheSky

I have had my Dragonfly 1.2 for a while now, and have used the USB Audio Player Pro on my Android phone. I forgot to take it out when I switched to streaming on Deezer, and I found, much to my surprise, that it works perfectly. I had tried it with Deezer some time ago with no success, so what has changed?


----------



## canali

with the Red hooked up to my laptop's volume control, playing spotify or tidal, I find the volume quite high at 8-12% of max.
 (and i've of course turned up the tidal and spotify volumes to max on their own internal on screen apps)
 powerful little bugger
  
 if anyone is considering selling their dragontail w jitterbug, shoot me a pm


----------



## stuck limo

Unrelated question, but does Tidal do scrobbling to Last FM ? I would not be opposed to using UAPP + Tidal + Dragonfly + S7 ---- IF, and ONLY IF, Tidal can scrobble to Last FM so I can keep track of everything I listen to. How does it operate for scrobbling through the UAPP app? I saw there were issues with Tidal dropping/logging out of scrobbling/Last FM while in the middle of listening sessions.


----------



## SpiderNhan

From the update notes of USB Audio Player Pro version 2.6.5/2.6.6

 "The app now also functions as UPnP media renderer: you can select UAPP as renderer in UPnP control apps like BubbleUPnP and enjoy the interface of the other app while still enjoying the audio quality of UAPP! It also allows UAPP to be remote controlled and use services like Qobuz and Google Music when used in combination with BubbleUPnP."

 Edit:
 -Played around with BubbleUPnP using UAPP as renderer and Google Play Music as my cloud. Works perfectly!
 -The best way to use volume control is to put Android native volume to full and then set your desired level through the BubbleUPnP app which goes from 0-100 volume steps. You can also open UAPP and use the software volume slider to fine tune, but I don't find it necessary.
 -With the screen off, the volume control will default to Android's native 15 steps and depending on how high your volume is set the volume between each step will be quite dramatic. Best to set your volume while in app.
 -Interface is a little clunky, but easy to figure out.
 -@stuck limo BubbleUPnP supports Tidal, UAPP and scrobbling.


----------



## paulguru

jltaser said:


> I have the Dragonfly and Xonar Essence STX in my possession and have heard the Auzentech's X-fi Forte and at a friend's house.
> 
> The dragonfly is on par if not better than the Essence STX.  The Auzentech's Forte is not as good as the the STX or dragonfly.
> Your particular headphone model will determine which source sounds better.
> My AKG K702 sounds better on the STX whereas my Sennheiser HD600 sounds better on the Dragonfly.  It's all about the synergy!


 
 An USB pen like DragonFly is competitive than Asus STX sound card as sound quality ???
 REALLY ?


----------



## rvcjew

paulguru said:


> An USB pen like DragonFly is competitive than Asus STX sound card as sound quality ???
> REALLY ?


 
 I agree I have the STX and Dragonfly v1.2 and the STX is considerably more detailed with its stock opp amps. The sound stage is not as wide on the STX and vocals seem more forward but detail is not even close. The STX also seems to have more sub-bass. The dragonfly doesn't have buggy drivers though so that is a plus. I find this with all my headphones and the one IEM I have. It's all subjective though so of course YMMV.


----------



## paulguru

rvcjew said:


> I agree I have the STX and Dragonfly v1.2 and the STX is considerably more detailed with its stock opp amps. The sound stage is not as wide on the STX and vocals seem more forward but detail is not even close. The STX also seems to have more sub-bass. The dragonfly doesn't have buggy drivers though so that is a plus. I find this with all my headphones and the one IEM I have. It's all subjective though so of course YMMV.


 
 Sorry i dont understand, do you saying that the Dragonfly is much lower than STX ?
  
 Can you explain better ?


----------



## rvcjew

paulguru said:


> Sorry i dont understand, do you saying that the Dragonfly is much lower than STX ?


 
 Yeah in terms of many specs, you can also op amp roll with it. It has better SNR and can play things up to 24/192kHz without downsampling while the Dragonfly goes up to only 24/96kHz (not as important in most music). They are different cards for different purpose's.


----------



## paulguru

rvcjew said:


> Yeah in terms of many specs, you can also op amp roll with it. It has better SNR and can play things up to 24/192kHz without downsampling while the Dragonfly goes up to only 24/96kHz (not as important in most music). They are different cards for different purpose's.


 
 So the STX is much better than Dragonfly ?
 I usually use the 16bit/48Khz sample rate for all around use.


----------



## alota

The red can drive headphones like beyer t90?
 thank you


----------



## Floss99

alota said:


> The red can drive headphones like beyer t90?
> thank you


 
 From what I've read, it should drive them fairly well


----------



## dbdynsty25

Been looking at the Dragonfly Black for the past few months, just looking for something to clean up the DAC in my Galaxy Tab S2, My Macbook Pro 13" Retina and my desktop PC.  I'm using it w/ my B&O H6 V2s and my Trinity Audio Atlas IEMs.  I'd never heard the original or the update, so I wouldn't be able to A&B them or anything so I wasn't worried about the 1.5 being slightly worse than the 1.2...I just want the power savings as my tablet isn't exactly the greatest from a battery standpoint.  
  
 The Black does not disappoint in this regard, however it is shocking at how much quieter it is on the tablet compared to the MacBook Pro.  I am at about 85% on the tablet and about 25% on the MacBook.  Clearly it's a power thing from the USB ports, so I went and bought the official DragonTail USB for Android cable to see if maybe it's just the crappy Micro>USB OTG cable I've got, but I seriously doubt it.  Either way, I'm definitely happy w/ the Black and it does what I need to do while not being too taxing on the systems.  
  
 This is a great little product for 100 bucks.  No complaints here.


----------



## Badfish5446

Picked up the 1.2 on clearance for a travel setup with the work laptop and my tablet (noisy, awful HO)... gotta say that I'm fairly impressed with this little thing.  It's doing an admirable job with the IE800 and I was surprised at the power output with the TH-X00, I had borderline listenable volume at 1%..  May have to pull out the T1 and HE500 for the S&G's of it.    Overall it's fairly neutral but I am getting occasionally flabby/bloated sub bass with some tracks and a slightly metallic tinge to the upper frequencies.  It's dead silent with no music playing and has a nice layering of instruments.  Still < 2hrs on this thing so take my first impressions with a grain of salt.


----------



## Smileyko

I just came to HK today and picked up the Hifiman Edition X. I am on the road for a week so I am using the RED for the burn in of the new HEX. I listened to the new HP and you know what? The RED stands her ground firm and it's all good. I really thought this little thing will run out of steam but no. Mahler Symphony number 6 sounds great right now.


----------



## Pastapipo

Nice impressions guys!


----------



## Ander

Quote:


benf said:


> If you put the system volume and media player volume at 100%, DF won't amplify the signal.


 
  
 When both the music player and the main operating system volume control are set to maximum, shouldn't It cut off the sound in headphone?
 I tought It would act as line out (no sound at all).


----------



## Badfish5446

ander said:


> Quote:
> 
> When both the music player and the main operating system volume control are set to maximum, shouldn't It cut off the sound in headphone?
> I tought It would act as line out (no sound at all).


 
 It is a line out but that is not synonymous with "no sound at all"... I imagine it bypasses the Dragonfly's volume circuitry but it still feeds voltage to the output and thus sound if you plug headphones into the output.  The purpose of the line out mode is so it will output a level that most line-ins can handle without clipping the signal.


----------



## sonic2911

Is the 1.2 better than the Red one? I got the DFR yesterday, use it for my PC, and I don't like the way it controls volume -,-


----------



## caenlenfromOCN

sonic2911 said:


> Is the 1.2 better than the Red one? I got the DFR yesterday, use it for my PC, and I don't like the way it controls volume -,-


 
 1.2 is warmer, but it controls sound the same way.  i like 1.2 better because bass is better on it than red, details are better on red though


----------



## Sphyn0x

Can somebody compare Black version to udac3/hifimedyi sabre 2?


----------



## Wilderness

Which sounds better -- Red or Black -- with a car's audio system when used with an iDevice?


----------



## andrewski

It's been a little quiet, so ...

I've enjoyed my dragonfly red for a little over three months. It is my first external DAC. I've been using it exclusively with my phone (HTC m8). Also exclusively with homemade 16-bit wav files. Love it.

Read a lot about burn in. Tried researching, learned nothing. Read earlier in this thread that someone from Audioquest suggested 150 hour burn in. Two weeks ago I tried it. On my laptop. I played the album AirMech by Front Line Assembly 143 1/2 times. That's 175 hours. I left my Sony mdr-xb700 headphones plugged in (not my fav, prefer my v700DJ).

At 50 hours I cheated (listened), huge difference, whole new level revealed. Same soundstage with far more complete separation. Sounds I couldn't hear before. To mess things up I bought a jitterbug that arrived the day I finished my burn in. Everything's different. All those buried sounds that so many never hear. My old volume settings are too loud now. More dynamic, more detail, it goes so quiet. My whole library is vastly improved.

So yeah, do a burn in. At least 50 hours, but I noticed subtle improvements at 100 and 175 hours. I was thinking maybe it's awesome power efficiency requires a longer burn?

And the next time someone says CD quality, I'm kicking them in the shin and calling them a liar.

Goodnight


----------



## Smileyko

Dear Fans of Dragonfly:  I am a total rookie here just got into this thing like 5 months ago. Bought a lots of new gear. Never know what to do to get the real potential out of them. Has anyone use the RED to power an amp like the Violectric V220. I am getting that tomorrow delivered and I want to burn in with the RED. Would this actually sound good? Should the volume on the RED be turn to full? Then control the listening volume via the amp? Most thankful for any pointers.


----------



## SpiderNhan

smileyko said:


> Dear Fans of Dragonfly:  I am a total rookie here just got into this thing like 5 months ago. Bought a lots of new gear. Never know what to do to get the real potential out of them. Has anyone use the RED to power an amp like the Violectric V220. I am getting that tomorrow delivered and I want to burn in with the RED. Would this actually sound good? Should the volume on the RED be turn to full? Then control the listening volume via the amp? Most thankful for any pointers.



Set Red to full volume and control your listening level via the amp.


----------



## Smileyko

spidernhan said:


> Set Red to full volume and control your listening level via the amp.


 

 Okkkkk my friend I will be all set tomorrow for the burn in of this new amp. Very Thankful!


----------



## behwatch

Using just a sony ex650ap iem and Xperia X Performance to test.

DFB - hiss louder than my breath. unlistenable.

DFR - volume is too soft. can only listen at full volume. my chinchillas can bark louder than that.
But can conclude DFR is better than DFB.


----------



## mib91

Does the Dragonfly line up supports Linux distros out of the box?
  
 Update::

 Never mind, just found that it runs fine without having any particular linux driver installed.


----------



## nirudhap

behwatch said:


> Using just a sony ex650ap iem and Xperia X Performance to test.
> 
> DFB - hiss louder than my breath. unlistenable.
> 
> ...


 
 Assuming you are referring to an Xperia phone, Android has issues controlling the hardware gain on the Dragonfly. Even if your system volume is full the device is at a low volume setting.
  
 Try USB Audio Player Pro from the play store. It has it's own driver which bypasses the Android sound system and can control the hardware volume on the Dragonfly.
  
 Audio-quest suggests that you max out the system volume and use the hardware controls.


----------



## qiujiaheng

interesting little device!


----------



## PakoPnF

Hello,
  
Between the Dragon Fly Black (V1.5) or Fiio E10k what is the best?
  
I play games and lissen to spotify.
  
Thanks


----------



## Xstream

I wouldn't spend a dime on a dragonfly. Waste of money if you ask me. 
Fiio E10k for sure.


----------



## PakoPnF

Have you had the 2?
  
 Why do you say that?


----------



## Xstream

Because you ask  
I had the dragonfly. Very disappointed. And I also had some fiio products. Not this particular one, but you can't compare a simple USB dac with this Fiio with amplifier.


----------



## JerseyD

In all fairness, the Dragonfly is both a DAC and an amp, as is the Fiio E10k - so I think it is fine to compare them...but not unless you have heard both.  
  
 Price-wise, the E10k and Dragonfly Black are in the same ballpark. The primary differences are form factor, and the added volume knob and bass-boost selector on the Fiio.  (And I don't know if the E10k will work straight out of an iPhone the way the Dragonfly Black or Red will.) They are both limited to 24/96. Which amp section is a better match for your headphones? Hard to say. Try to listen to both if you can.
  
 I think the Dragonflies are fine products, but have not heard the E10k to compare sound.


----------



## PakoPnF

I whant to use the DAC only in my PC desk, nothing else, he never gona leave home.


----------



## Xstream

Theoretical a dragonfly is an amp, but in practice more of an equalizer. 
Sorry, but the dragonfly is nothing more then a slightly powered EQ. In my experience. Comparing it with the internals of the fiio is just not right.


----------



## SpiderNhan

The Dragonfly Red is not as powerful as my Sound Blaster Z soundcard, but the sound is cleaner and doesn't distort even when the volume is at max. As far as DACs go, it is the cleanest sounding DAC/amp in my repertoire.

 Aune T1 mk1 = Most colored DAC. Sound varies depending on tube. Can sound very digital or extremely analog. Most fun of all my DACs. I use the line-out exclusively.

 V-MODA Vamp Verza = Neutral with a warm tilt. Pairs well with brighter headphones like the AKG Q701. Has the least powerful amp of all my gear.
  
 Creative Sound Blaster Z = Sounds better than the RealTek chip built into my PC's motherboard. I mainly use it for gaming and movies. For music my other DACs sound much better. Most powerful amp but distorts at higher volumes.
  
 Audioquest Dragonfly Red = Cleanest, most digital sound. Bass is lightest of the three while treble extends the farthest. No distortion at all volume levels.


----------



## mib91

How does zuperDAC and SMSL m3 would fit in comparison with dargonfly v1.2 & v1.5. Any insights guys?
  
 Sure, m3 has naturally got more juices out of the box but how does the aforementioned dragonfly variants may stack up I wonder apart from that.


----------



## dannyking

Hi,
  
 I'm looking to buy the dragon fly red. If anyone has one for sale and is willing to ship to canada, please PM me. Thanks


----------



## OkayKun

Hey folks,
Maybe one of you can help me out. 
I'm looking to improve my listening experience with my Beoplay H6. The iPad dac and amp is usually strong enough to drive them so I thought they might not need the dragonfly red and the black one is enough.
But are there any improvements in quality by choosing the red, even though the black one is strong enough to drive my cans? 
Cheers!


----------



## dbdynsty25

okaykun said:


> Hey folks,
> Maybe one of you can help me out.
> I'm looking to improve my listening experience with my Beoplay H6. The iPad dac and amp is usually strong enough to drive them so I thought they might not need the dragonfly red and the black one is enough.
> But are there any improvements in quality by choosing the red, even though the black one is strong enough to drive my cans?
> Cheers!




I actually prefer the black over the red w the H6. It is a little warmer with a bit more bass in comparison. It's definitely enough to drive the H6 out of the iPhone and iPad. Android devices are another story as there aren't too many that support the DF.


----------



## Xstream

I don't like either one. I don't get why people buy these things. It's nothing more than an EQ that, in my opinion, doesn't sound very nice. I did like the black one more though. They both sounded muddy, but the black a bit less and has a more hifi sound. 

Better buy a different amp/dac. Maybe your cans don't need much amp, but it can still add a lot with a bit more than an USB stick with some added power to add more than an EQ. 
But it's of course personal like everything in audio.


----------



## OkayKun

dbdynsty25 said:


> I actually prefer the black over the red w the H6. It is a little warmer with a bit more bass in comparison. It's definitely enough to drive the H6 out of the iPhone and iPad. Android devices are another story as there aren't too many that support the DF.


 
 Thanks for the input. That sounds good, I think I will try the black one then!
 There's something I just didnt find out... can I still use the Control buttons on the cable?  I know the Mic works and the Dragonfly is supposed to have analogue buttons, right?  But is there a passthrough for the control buttons on the cable?


xstream said:


> I don't like either one. I don't get why people buy these things. It's nothing more than an EQ that, in my opinion, doesn't sound very nice. I did like the black one more though. They both sounded muddy, but the black a bit less and has a more hifi sound.
> 
> Better buy a different amp/dac. Maybe your cans don't need much amp, but it can still add a lot with a bit more than an USB stick with some added power to add more than an EQ.
> But it's of course personal like everything in audio.


 
 I heard you say that before and thank you for your 2cents. Thanks for assuring the black one would be a better choice. Do you have a recommendation for an alternative? 
 I also need the Dragonfly to act as a lightning connection to my iPhone. It's small enough to use in the bus, I didnt want to use something much bigger and was hoping it could also improve audio a bit.
  
 Cheers and thanks folks!


----------



## dbdynsty25

okaykun said:


> Thanks for the input. That sounds good, I think I will try the black one then!
> There's something I just didnt find out... can I still use the Control buttons on the cable?  I know the Mic works and the Dragonfly is supposed to have analogue buttons, right?  But is there a passthrough for the control buttons on the cable?


 
  
 No, nothing works.  No volume buttons, no play pause, nothing.  The DF is just a dumb amplifier.  You have to use on screen buttons and volume buttons on the device.  At least I did w/ my iPad Pro.


----------



## VRacer-111

xstream said:


> Theoretical a dragonfly is an amp, but in practice more of an equalizer.
> Sorry, but the dragonfly is nothing more then a slightly powered EQ. In my experience. Comparing it with the internals of the fiio is just not right.




It's more of an exceptional and extremely portable USB DAC that has a more than adequate amp section... Music reproduction is almost exactly in line with my Yamaha S1800 SACD player with Meier Audio JAZZ-ff headphone amp combo....highly detailed with ZERO noise and excellent bass presentation, especially when listening on Fostex TH-X00 PH's.... 

Listening volume level (~70dB SPL) with Fostex T50RP MKIII's and Philips SHP9500 on my Samsung Galaxy TAB S2 using UAPP with FLAC rips from CD:

T50RP






SHP9500





Half volume would be instant hearing damage loudness level, especially with SHP9500's...


----------



## jnorris

xstream said:


> Theoretical a dragonfly is an amp, but in practice more of an equalizer.
> Sorry, but the dragonfly is nothing more then a slightly powered EQ. In my experience. Comparing it with the internals of the fiio is just not right.


 
 Do you work for Fiio or something?  This is just plain untrue.  The Dragonfly v1.2 had a little bit of bloom in the bass but the new Red is superbly clean and flat.  Whenever someone trashes something that so many others have praised, my spidey sense tingles and I wonder what the agenda truly is.


----------



## Xstream

jnorris said:


> Do you work for Fiio or something?  This is just plain untrue.  The Dragonfly v1.2 had a little bit of bloom in the bass but the new Red is superbly clean and flat.  Whenever someone trashes something that so many others have praised, my spidey sense tingles and I wonder what the agenda truly is.


 
 No, Fiio was just an example. Could also have said Cayin i5 or whatever. 
 I thought the performance of the Dragonfly was disappointing. Everybody has their opinion, that doesn't directly mean i have some affiliation, just because you disagree. 
  
 Let other praise this product and be happy with it. I'm still disappointed and don't like the product. It just felt like an EQ that "emphasised" sound, but didn't really gave me more resolution or control. But since you decide to quote me out of context, i also said i didn't use it with my phone for instance. Probably would have more impact, but that's not a solution for me (also because of the weird sticking out combo + weak usb otg plug). Applying a software EQ on my laptop for instance gave me better results than this DF ... 
  
 For mobile use i'd always advise a DAP. Dedicated, no weird sticking out stuff, fixed design, can be used as USB dac, extra battery, more amp etc etc ... 
 But sure, i can imagine that other people have a different situation or solution. Doesn't change my opinion and def. doesn't mean i have a hidden agenda.


----------



## catroni

Do the Dragonflys work well with Vshaped iem? (ex. Senn ie800)
  
 Or, for such an iem, one should go for a more neutral dac?
  
 Regards.


----------



## stuck limo

When I plug my DFBlack into my PC, it gets so on Volume level 2 or 3 is maximum I can stand. Like, 2 and 3 are LOUD. That means Level 1 is the normal listening level. Is there a way to fix this and increase the volume steps? I am running Windows 10.


----------



## Badfish5446

I've used my ie800's with the Dragonfly 1.2 quite a bit at the office.  I typically run it to an O2 for fine tuning of the volume (not IE800 specific, just in general).  I think they sound quite good... haven't compared it with my LG V20 or FiiO X3ii stack but I had no complaints.


----------



## kovacs (May 18, 2017)

Firmware update 1.06 with support for MQA and optimizations for use with Android devices is now available from AudioQuest. http://www.audioquest.com/digitalupdates/


----------



## MX400

...i love the Dragonfly RED~
it's a beautiful piece of technology...


----------



## deco cat

VRacer-111 said:


> It's more of an exceptional and extremely portable USB DAC that has a more than adequate amp section... Music reproduction is almost exactly in line with my Yamaha S1800 SACD player with Meier Audio JAZZ-ff headphone amp combo....highly detailed with ZERO noise and excellent bass presentation, especially when listening on Fostex TH-X00 PH's....
> 
> Listening volume level (~70dB SPL) with Fostex T50RP MKIII's and Philips SHP9500 on my Samsung Galaxy TAB S2 using UAPP with FLAC rips from CD:
> 
> ...



Are you using BitPerfect mode?


----------



## caenlenfromOCN

deco cat said:


> Are you using BitPerfect mode?



how do you use bitperfect mode


----------



## deco cat

caenlenfromOCN said:


> how do you use bitperfect mode



Under USB Audio settings you can select bitperfect mode.


----------



## Wavelength

kovacs said:


> Firmware update 1.06 with support for MQA and optimizations for use with Android devices is now available from AudioQuest. http://www.audioquest.com/digitalupdates/


All,

I posted a new version 1.07 for DragonFly about a month ago. This fixes some of the volume control problems with Android devices when using apps that don't support the low level device volume controls like youtube and others.

If you are using the eXtream USB driver for Android you should download the latest version before using the DragonFly or you may get a loud pop when first used. If your not using this for audio you really should it makes a huge difference in sound quality. Again I have nothing to do with eXtream or their products.

Thanks,
Gordon


----------



## caenlenfromOCN

deco cat said:


> Under USB Audio settings you can select bitperfect mode.



How in Windows 10? I don't see where...


----------



## Wavelength

caenlenfromOCN said:


> How in Windows 10? I don't see where...


In Windows, Linux or macOS the application is really the only thing that will kill bit perfect output. So if you use Roon, J River, the new Audirvana or any other application if you set your configuration to WASAPI it should be bit perfect in the output.

Thanks,
Gordon


----------



## caenlenfromOCN

Wavelength said:


> In Windows, Linux or macOS the application is really the only thing that will kill bit perfect output. So if you use Roon, J River, the new Audirvana or any other application if you set your configuration to WASAPI it should be bit perfect in the output.
> 
> Thanks,
> Gordon



ok great, I do use Foobar and WASAPI so i should be good, cheers


----------



## caenlenfromOCN

Does this mean that my DF Red with WASAPI and Foobar will auto change to the right 16 bit 44100 or 96hz 24 bit, based on what file it plays? does it all automatic? prob not in sptoify but in foobar with wasapi it does?


----------



## Wavelength

caenlenfromOCN said:


> Does this mean that my DF Red with WASAPI and Foobar will auto change to the right 16 bit 44100 or 96hz 24 bit, based on what file it plays? does it all automatic? prob not in sptoify but in foobar with wasapi it does?



Yes correct it will, unless you have added some kind of upsampler.

Thanks,
Gordon


----------



## rafaelo

I have a dragonfly v1.2 for some years now. I bought it immediately after the first android update which  permitted usb audio.  I was one of the earliest adopters trying to use it with my Nexus 5 but I was underwelmed obviously for reasons that are currently clear but were not back in the day.

But for the last year or more I had problems to play under some circumstances and could not understand why. Yesterday, I think I understood partially the reason after getting the apple usb 3.0 adapter. I discovered that simply 44.100 and its twice multiple just do not play and make a crackling static noise. As an analogy, I could say it's like it has two clocks and just one is faulty hardware wise or software wise. The other responsible for 96.000 plays just fine but as a result I can not play with my iPad through camera 3 usb adaptor powered from an iPad 15w charger which I believe otherwise i  could unless I find a way  to send a 96.000 signal without roon.

Can someone please help me to solve this issue or just tell me if I can fix this? Is it hardware related or software related? Can I reset somehow the software?

I know about the third  generation of mobile capable dragonflies and my issue seems to be completely trivial   but it would be nice if I could fix since I am doing a comparison with xCan which supposedly uses the same DAC with v1.2 for my upcoming review and also for my ipurifier 3 upcoming review.

Many thanks in advance for anything that could help.


----------



## caenlenfromOCN

rafaelo said:


> I have a dragonfly v1.2 for some years now. I bought it immediately after the first android update which  permitted usb audio.  I was one of the earliest adopters trying to use it with my Nexus 5 but I was underwelmed obviously for reasons that are currently clear but were not back in the day.
> 
> But for the last year or more I had problems to play under some circumstances and could not understand why. Yesterday, I think I understood partially the reason after getting the apple usb 3.0 adapter. I discovered that simply 44.100 and its twice multiple just do not play and make a crackling static noise. As an analogy, I could say it's like it has two clocks and just one is faulty hardware wise or software wise. The other responsible for 96.000 plays just fine but as a result I can not play with my iPad through camera 3 usb adaptor powered from an iPad 15w charger which I believe otherwise i  could unless I find a way  to send a 96.000 signal without roon.
> 
> ...




that's funny, I think my V1.2 sounds better than the Red, I compared them side by side one day for several hours. I didn't have the Black handy to test it though. but I am glad I kept my V1.2, sorry you do not like yours.


----------



## rafaelo

caenlenfromOCN said:


> that's funny, I think my V1.2 sounds better than the Red, I compared them side by side one day for several hours. I didn't have the Black handy to test it though. but I am glad I kept my V1.2, sorry you do not like yours.


I did not say I do not like it I am just saying is not working properly anymore.  I tested it everywhere, mac, windows (tidal settings), android phone and iOS devices I am pretty sure that the 44.1 mode is not working any more. 

I remember a review from stereophile that claimed in the past that v1.2 sounds better in the main system (not portable) in comparison with the new ones so your preference make absolutely sense and confirms that.


----------



## caenlenfromOCN

rafaelo said:


> I did not say I do not like it I am just saying is not working properly anymore.  I tested it everywhere, mac, windows (tidal settings), android phone and iOS devices I am pretty sure that the 44.1 mode is not working any more.
> 
> I remember a review from stereophile that claimed in the past that v1.2 sounds better in the main system (not portable) in comparison with the new ones so your preference make absolutely sense and confirms that.



Sorry I misread you mate, hmm, no idea about the 44.1 I have always just automatically changed it in WIndows to 96hz and 24 bit and disabled enhancements, so i don't even know if mine works in 44.1 or not. i know your supposed to match it to the music you listen to, i just stopped caring, and 24 bit 96 seems to be just fine on everything so i just leave it there.


----------



## rafaelo (Jan 5, 2019)

caenlenfromOCN said:


> Sorry I misread you mate, hmm, no idea about the 44.1 I have always just automatically changed it in WIndows to 96hz and 24 bit and disabled enhancements, so i don't even know if mine works in 44.1 or not. i know your supposed to match it to the music you listen to, i just stopped caring, and 24 bit 96 seems to be just fine on everything so i just leave it there.


Yes I prefer too 96 upsampling, I have no problems with that I am using it in my PC. The problem is I cannot force my iPad and iPhone to do that without roon or something similar complicated. It defaults to 44.1 and does not play at all because, let's say for not having a better word, this 44.1 clock is not working properly.


----------



## caenlenfromOCN

rafaelo said:


> Yes I prefer too 96 upsampling, I have no problems with that I am using it in my PC. The problem is I cannot force my iPad and iPhone to do that without roon or something similar complicated. It defaults to 44.1 and does not play at all because, let's say for not having a better word, this 44.1 clock is not working properly.



I understand your issue now, dang, that does suck. I am sorry mate I do not know how to help.


----------



## Hyde00 (Jun 4, 2022)

Hey guys I've had Dragonfly Red for a while now (2-3 years?) and it's been my sound reference. My other gear come and go but this always stays. I just really like how Red portrays female vocal (very forward) and it make everything sounds richer and warm.

I've also bought Cobalt twice and returned both times since Red sound more musical to me. Cobalt to me is more technical but more lean sounding (and lack bass compare to Red).

Maybe I'm just bored (you know how it is with gear) and was wondering if I should try Black or 1.2.

I talked to one person who likes Black over Red. But from what I gathered here A LOT seems to like 1.2 over Red and a few likes Red over 1.2.

Is it worth it to give 1.2 a try? I found someone selling. Maybe skip Black for now or revisit later?

Thanks!

*EDIT:* I guess in the grand scheme of things this is still fairly cheap hahah, this is coming from a guy with Violectric V200 on my desk and here I am agonizing over $60 LOL.


----------



## jnorris

Hyde00 said:


> Hey guys I've had Dragonfly Red for a while now (2-3 years?) and it's been my sound reference. My other gear come and go but this always stays. I just really like how Red portrays female vocal (very forward) and it make everything sounds richer and warm.
> 
> I've also bought Cobalt twice and returned both times since Red sound more musical to me. Cobalt to me is more technical but more lean sounding (and lack bass compare to Red).
> 
> ...


At this point the Red is a pretty low bar.  A few years ago I compared it to a Peachtree DAC-IT which sounded much better.  Since then I've compared it to numerous more modern DACs and the Red consistently falls on its face, and not just because of its limited sample rate support, but also in terms of dynamics and frequency extension.  I used the Red for a long time, but it's time has passed.


----------



## Hyde00 (Jun 4, 2022)

jnorris said:


> At this point the Red is a pretty low bar.  A few years ago I compared it to a Peachtree DAC-IT which sounded much better.  Since then I've compared it to numerous more modern DACs and the Red consistently falls on its face, and not just because of its limited sample rate support, but also in terms of dynamics and frequency extension.  I used the Red for a long time, but it's time has passed.


lol funny enough I had the opposite impression.  Maybe I just liked its tuning enough that I could overlook the technicality.

Like since I got Dragonfly Red I've tried:

*Amps:*
Schiit Vali 2+
Schiit Asgard 3
Project Polaris
Liquid Spark
Burson Playmate 2
Objective 2
Violectric V200

*Dacs:*
SMSL M100 MK2
Schiit Modi 3+
Schiit Modi Multibit
Burson Playmate 2 Internal DAC
Grace Standard DAC

*Dongles:*
Astell and Kern PEE51
Cayin RU6
Luxury and Precision W2
Luxury and Precision W2-131
Chord Mojo 2
xDuoo Link2 Bal

And after all that I've sold everything and went back to Dragonfly Red, only recently I got Violectric V200 and borrowed my friend's Grace SDAC, in the process of hunting down a Soekris 1321 dac (R2R dac).

But funny enough I mean yes Violectric V200 is a better amp but if I don't A/B it I think I'm still perfectly ok using Dragonfly Red.

I think I just like its tuning and maybe I've used it for long enough now I'm just used to it. Also I like how small it sits on my desk.

Though I'll admit maybe I don't "need" the Dragonfly 1.2 but just want to try things LOL.


----------



## jnorris

Hyde00 said:


> lol funny enough I had the opposite impression.  Maybe I just liked its tuning enough that I could overlook the technicality.
> 
> Like since I got Dragonfly Red I've tried:
> 
> ...


That's quite the list of DACs.  Mine includes the Modi Multibit also, as well as the SMSL SU8, Topping E30, 2 different iFi Zens, and the Peachtree mentioned.  The Red just didn't cut it for me and is now in a suitcase as a travel DAC.


----------



## Hyde00

jnorris said:


> That's quite the list of DACs.  Mine includes the Modi Multibit also, as well as the SMSL SU8, Topping E30, 2 different iFi Zens, and the Peachtree mentioned.  The Red just didn't cut it for me and is now in a suitcase as a travel DAC.


Lol no I agree with you, I think everyone else have moved on. I'm just the weird one.

It's gonna be like at the year of 2062 and we'll be at Dragonfly Violet with ES10236 Pro or something fancy like that, and I'll be like hey guys check out my Dragonfly Red with ES9016 LOL.


----------



## catvsgrizzly

Hyde00 said:


> Hey guys I've had Dragonfly Red for a while now (2-3 years?) and it's been my sound reference. My other gear come and go but this always stays. I just really like how Red portrays female vocal (very forward) and it make everything sounds richer and warm.
> 
> I've also bought Cobalt twice and returned both times since Red sound more musical to me. Cobalt to me is more technical but more lean sounding (and lack bass compare to Red).
> 
> ...


You're not alone. The Dragonfly Red was my primary DAC for about 4 years. It just did everything really well. Beautiful instrument separation. Every IEM, headphone and speaker that I plugged into it sounded great!
I recently tried the Questyle M15 but didn't enjoy it. I then went all in and traded in my DRF to afford a Cobalt. I'm two days in and wondering "what have I done". Trebles on the cobalt are sounding metallic and artificial. I'm hoping there's a burn in period and that it's just teething problems on the cobalt that will settle down.


----------



## Hyde00

catvsgrizzly said:


> You're not alone. The Dragonfly Red was my primary DAC for about 4 years. It just did everything really well. Beautiful instrument separation. Every IEM, headphone and speaker that I plugged into it sounded great!
> I recently tried the Questyle M15 but didn't enjoy it. I then went all in and traded in my DRF to afford a Cobalt. I'm two days in and wondering "what have I done". Trebles on the cobalt are sounding metallic and artificial. I'm hoping there's a burn in period and that it's just teething problems on the cobalt that will settle down.


LOL good tip about M15, I was planning to try it next.  But good thing now you told me it's no good.  So far I've tried:

Apple Dongle
Hidzs Sonata HD II
xDuoo Link 1
AudioQuest Cobalt
Zorloo Ztella
Radsone HUD100
A&K PEE51
Cayin RU6
L&P W2
L&P W2-131
Helm Bolt

And I still went back to Dragonfly Red LOL.  Cobalt has better soundstage / imaging / layering but more lean sounding.  So it's not really the same.

Really struggle to find a Dragonfly Red upgrade.  Was tempted to buy iFi Go Bar but decided that maybe I'll accept Dragonfly Red is the best for me.


----------



## catvsgrizzly

Hyde00 said:


> LOL good tip about M15, I was planning to try it next.  But good thing now you told me it's no good.  So far I've tried:
> 
> Apple Dongle
> Hidzs Sonata HD II
> ...





Hyde00 said:


> LOL good tip about M15, I was planning to try it next.  But good thing now you told me it's no good.  So far I've tried:
> 
> Apple Dongle
> Hidzs Sonata HD II
> ...


I actually gave the cobalt a decent burn in over the last couple of days and now really impressed with how its sounding! Resolved the metallic treble sound, increased bass extension and improved sound stage. I'm happy now (I know it doesn't really help you out much though sorry). Hopefully you can get a good day at an audio store just to test all the gear they have! Would you consider a good DAP? I wonder of that could be a good step up.


----------



## Hyde00

catvsgrizzly said:


> I actually gave the cobalt a decent burn in over the last couple of days and now really impressed with how its sounding! Resolved the metallic treble sound, increased bass extension and improved sound stage. I'm happy now (I know it doesn't really help you out much though sorry). Hopefully you can get a good day at an audio store just to test all the gear they have! Would you consider a good DAP? I wonder of that could be a good step up.


lol all good, to be honest I think I'm happy with Dragonfly Red.

I'm only trying to spend more money because I'm bored but I should just accept that Dragonfly Red is the best for my taste LOL.

It's ok next I want to try R2R dac, so I'll probably just focus my money on that next.


----------



## vdoan

catvsgrizzly said:


> You're not alone. The Dragonfly Red was my primary DAC for about 4 years. It just did everything really well. Beautiful instrument separation. Every IEM, headphone and speaker that I plugged into it sounded great!
> I recently tried the Questyle M15 but didn't enjoy it. I then went all in and traded in my DRF to afford a Cobalt. I'm two days in and wondering "what have I done". Trebles on the cobalt are sounding metallic and artificial. I'm hoping there's a burn in period and that it's just teething problems on the cobalt that will settle down.


I don't have the Red version but I have been using the Blue one for around 6 weeks... so far not really happy with the price I paid for... I think I would try iFi GO bar later...


----------



## Hyde00

vdoan said:


> I don't have the Red version but I have been using the Blue one for around 6 weeks... so far not really happy with the price I paid for... I think I would try iFi GO bar later...


Been really interested in the Go Bar since it's been announced. Definitely let me know your impressions later if you do get your hands on it.


----------



## HWB3

I have the red and the black and like both of them. The red has more detail and sounds better to me than the black, but I do enjoy both of them. I had read where the price difference between the red and the cobalt wasn't worth the improvement in sound.


----------



## andrewski

HWB3 said:


> I have the red and the black and like both of them. The red has more detail and sounds better to me than the black, but I do enjoy both of them. I had read where the price difference between the red and the cobalt wasn't worth the improvement in sound.


I love the Red, never heard the Black. I use a Jitterbug with the Red. I prefer the Cobalt. I love the slow roll-off. Makes my local WAV files better. I recommend it.


----------



## 0l3g

I have the black and the red. And while the latter is definitely better, not really sure I'm that satisfied with the red, for me it sounds a bit too analytical maybe. Not sure I even want to try the Cobalt seeing all the feedback


----------

