# Shunyata Zi-Tron Cobra (new not King Cobra) (Video Inside)



## Gwarmi

Just thought I'd create a little thread about 'Shunyata Research' as it seems that very threads exist about this
   very interesting 'Born in the USA' company - we all know there is a huge amount of controversy with power
   cords out there - namely a lot of folk who may not have any actual direct experience with some of the nicer
   offerings out there.
   
   
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   Anyway, I've had a few entry level units from Chord Co and Nordost in the past, now I have the new
   Nordost Heimdall Revision 2 on my Violectric V200 head amp - but I've got this from Shunyata Research
   on order - should come in within the next few weeks, so I guess impressions will be long and far between
   and perhaps this thread was born a little early 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   Just hoping if anyone else including 'Grokit' has one in their audio arsenal?
   
   Anyway, here she is the *Shunyata King Cobra*
   
* *


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## DaveBSC

Shunyata's earlier cords were not really what I'd call neutral. They were ok, but not that great for the money. The new CX designs are pretty good. Not the best, but good. Their earlier interconnect and speaker cable series cost an arm and a leg, for middling performance.
   
  The standard Hydra power conditioners are basically insults to the customers, "let's charge these suckers $1,000 for a couple of $2 caps and some outlets". I haven't heard their latest flagship models with the noise suppression tube things, but I'm much more inclined to give my business to Audience, B-P-T, Running Springs, or Silver Circle than Shunyata when it comes to power conditioning.


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## Gwarmi

Well all locked in now - good or bad - it is infact not the King Cobra but the new Zitron Cobra I will be receiving
   delivery of in the coming weeks.. - crazy cash spent - but I remain optimistic about the results. Now to
   finalise my interconnects and this rig shall be finished *hopefully*


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## estreeter

Don't make me quote you on that, gwarmi ..... 
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/604282/end-game-headphone-rigs-unicorns-and-other-myths
   
  It only ends when we stop coming here/other forums/magazines etc.


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## gavtorn

wow.  I want to hear your impressions when it arrives.  Maybe even in person 
   
  Did you sort out the stealth gear?


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## Lenni

Quote: 





gwarmi said:


> Well all locked in now - good or bad - it is infact not the King Cobra but the new Zitron Cobra I will be receiving
> delivery of in the coming weeks.. - crazy cash spent - but I remain optimistic about the results. Now to
> finalise my interconnects and this rig shall be finished *hopefully*


 
   
  what's your source? if it's a laptop, or a desktop PC your rig is way short of finished. very short...


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## P+D-MI

Which component will you be using it with?


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## DaveBSC

Quote: 





gwarmi said:


> Well all locked in now - good or bad - it is infact not the King Cobra but the new Zitron Cobra I will be receiving
> delivery of in the coming weeks.. - crazy cash spent - but I remain optimistic about the results. Now to
> finalise my interconnects and this rig shall be finished *hopefully*


 
   
  Are you still using the Audiophilleo and Rega DAC as your computer interface? I don't have any issues with expensive power cords as a concept, but honestly you would notice WAY more of an improvement by spending $2-3K there as opposed to $2-3K on a new power chord - say by replacing the AP and the Rega with an Eximus DP-1.


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## Gwarmi

Quote: 





davebsc said:


> Are you still using the Audiophilleo and Rega DAC as your computer interface? I don't have any issues with expensive power cords as a concept, but honestly you would notice WAY more of an improvement by spending $2-3K there as opposed to $2-3K on a new power chord - say by replacing the AP and the Rega with an Eximus DP-1.


 
   
   No DAC is perfect but I really do like the Rega - it has a certain tonality to it that I really enjoy - I guess the inner tinkerer in me just thought that
   it would be cool to 'hot rod' one to see how far they can go in terms of attaining a pure sound. Only DAC that I preferred off the bat that was running
   it's own internal master clock would be the relatively new Esoteric D07x - yowza - that thing is $5000 and positively massive.
   
   @Lenni / Gavtorn
   
   Yes, I did forget to mention that - like Gavtorn there will be a basic open case, fanless, external power supplied desktop replacement in the works,
   should not cost a lot since I build my own PC's and have access to good prices - last night was a perfect display of how bottlenecks can appear
   out of nowhere. The Laptop has not been rebooted in about a week, coming out of a long hibernation period, I fired up a track and then attempted
   to check my email - the amount of clipping and drop outs was substantial to say the least!
   
   @Estreeter
   
   Self denial is a beautiful thing - I should rephrase that and say 'Leave it alone for a bit' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   Lastly, here's a review on the Rega DAC that at least attempts to support why I love mine so much, it is all subjective at the end of
   the day :-
   
   http://www.enjoythemusic.com/hificritic/vol5_no2/rega_dac.htm
   
   <quote>
   
   So he says several - let's assume 3 times, 1500 British quid is $2310 but like all of Rega's products they sell for much less.
   
   *[size=medium][size=small]Conclusions[/size][/size]*
  [size=x-small]There is very little to dislike here. *At £500, the Rega DAC is a class above the competition, and it can stand comparison with DACs *[/size]
*[size=x-small] costing several times its price. [/size] *[size=small]I gave it a score of 55 on high resolution material which makes it the best so far in this sector. [/size]​ [size=small] It is strongly made with good components and should give years of  [/size][size=small]trouble free music so it has to get a strong recommendation.[/size]​


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## gavtorn

you need 3 of those power cords mate - 1 for the pc 1 for the amp and 1 for the dac..


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## Gwarmi

Quote: 





gavtorn said:


> you need 3 of those power cords mate - 1 for the pc 1 for the amp and 1 for the dac..


 
   
   Haha yeees - perhaps if this came into being  
   
   
   
   Just a bit more on that tangent above - it seems I'm not the only one plugging away trying to improve the performance of a middling $1000-ish value DAC.
   
   If you look over at the Computer Audio forums, many of us are using 'J PLAY' as our playback program of choice, sure it's a little clunky and what not
   but it sounds fantastic - many of you may not be aware that the head cheese over at J PLAY - actually uses and recommends one of these.
   
   The Musica Ibuki Wooden Case DAC - 700 Euros or there abouts. $900 - cheaper than the full retail on my Rega DAC.
   
   
   
   Now get this! - It uses an old Burr Brown chip that is limited to 16bit/44Khz - that's right, not even 16/48.
   
   Bet a few of you are sitting there, scratiching your heads wondering why a guy who has written one of the best Windows audiophile playback
   systems on the planet elects to run a wooden cased 16/44 DAC that offers absolutely no functionality in regards to the delights of hi-res
   material via HDtracks etc 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   One word - tonality.


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## gavtorn

The power cord I use on my desktop PC server makes a big difference to the SQ.
  
  I have a feeling you will get far more improvement from a dedicated server than a power cord however, I guess we will see tho!


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## brunk

I use all Pangea Audio power cords. AC-9 (actually a 7 gauge cable! The 3-meter one I have is insane lol) for anything amp-wise and AC-14 for anything source-wise. They don't break the bank like Shunyata does. I wish I could run a comparison, I doubt there's much of a difference between it and the AC-9.


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## Ern dog

I've been eye ballin' Shunyata power cables for awhile now.  I'd like to try one and have decided on a used Black Mamba CX HC.  I'll be using it to from the wall to feed my Running Springs power conditioner.  Right now I'm using an Audience powerchord and it sounds good.  The timing is good because prices on the CX model have dropped since their new models recently came out.


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## Gwarmi

Quote: 





gavtorn said:


> wow.  I want to hear your impressions when it arrives.  Maybe even in person
> 
> Did you sort out the stealth gear?


 
   
   
   Someone is already ahead of you there Gav'! 
   
   Look at the back of this guy's rig - 3 x Zitron Cobras.


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## DaveBSC

Quote: 





gavtorn said:


> The power cord I use on my desktop PC server makes a big difference to the SQ.
> 
> I have a feeling you will get far more improvement from a dedicated server than a power cord however, I guess we will see tho!


 

 What type of power supply is your PC server using? Is it a standard computer PS, or something else?


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## DaveBSC

Quote: 





gwarmi said:


> Just a bit more on that tangent above - it seems I'm not the only one plugging away trying to improve the performance of a middling $1000-ish value DAC.
> 
> If you look over at the Computer Audio forums, many of us are using 'J PLAY' as our playback program of choice, sure it's a little clunky and what not
> but it sounds fantastic - many of you may not be aware that the head cheese over at J PLAY - actually uses and recommends one of these.
> ...


 
   
  The JPlay forum has been a big help for designing my own server. I certainly wouldn't have thought to use an external hdd via optical USB, rather than an internal SATA drive. He lost me on that DAC, though. The BB PCM270x USB chips are garbage. There's no redeeming quality to them. You can stick one on the best sounding DAC in the world, but it's still a crap chip, and it will compromise sound quality no matter what.


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## Gwarmi

Quote: 





davebsc said:


> The JPlay forum has been a big help for designing my own server. I certainly wouldn't have thought to use an external hdd via optical USB, rather than an internal SATA drive. He lost me on that DAC, though. The BB PCM270x USB chips are garbage. There's no redeeming quality to them. You can stick one on the best sounding DAC in the world, but it's still a crap chip, and it will compromise sound quality no matter what.


 
   
   I think he might be a sweetness lover - as in the tube output stage on that thing must really sweeten things up, have not
   heard it myself but as you say if the DAC chip itself does nothing for separation, imaging and overall detail then perhaps
   it's a strange choice - just wanted to point out that there are people out there who are far more knowledgeable
   than me making even more bizarre DAC choices 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   Speaking of external devices - the main CAPS 2 video from Rocky Mountain audio festival suggests using an
   external supply for the motherboard if you can find one - this appears to be supported by what Gav Torn is
   saying in that he is noticing differences between power cables for the internal PC power supply on his
   machine.
   
   Might be best to power it externally and hook it up to a conditioner of sorts.


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## estreeter

I don't try to apply too much 'logic' to some of the more esoteric choices out there - particularly when the kit comes from Japan. You mentioned tonality, and that seems to be the reason some are willing to pay for the (admittedly gorgeous) Yamamoto amp - even that is a bargain compared to some of the cartridges coming out of Japan. All limited edition, numbered collectable 'artworks' - horses for courses, I guess. 
   
  Personally, I wouldnt pay ~6K for this (bolding is mine), but then how many people look at the asking price of the LCD-3 and shout '2K for a headphone ! What !?! ......
   
http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=KOEURUSHIR
   
_The Urushi Signature comes in 3 cosmetic finishes (Wajima, Tsugaru and Vermillion). The Wajima finish encrusts the whole cartridge body with gold flakes and is the most expensive to produce. The Tsugaru starts with a base piano-black finish and has bands of gold speckle along its sides. The Vermillion is finished in a reddish lacquer color. 

The Urushi cartridges are probably the most striking in the whole Koetsu lineup because it encompasses the traditional art of Japanese lacquerware in the production of the cartridge body.* Even without reproducing music, the Urushi is itself, a work of art*. _


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## gavtorn

Quote: 





davebsc said:


> What type of power supply is your PC server using? Is it a standard computer PS, or something else?


 
  Just a standard seasonic x460 fanless w/ shunyata venom 3 p/cord.
   
  Most of the specs and tweaks for the music server are from the jplay forum.


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## gavtorn

Quote: 





davebsc said:


> The JPlay forum has been a big help for designing my own server. I certainly wouldn't have thought to use an external hdd via optical USB, rather than an internal SATA drive. He lost me on that DAC, though. The BB PCM270x USB chips are garbage. There's no redeeming quality to them. You can stick one on the best sounding DAC in the world, but it's still a crap chip, and it will compromise sound quality no matter what.


 
  I also have the Adnaco s3 fibre optic usb hub that Marcin from Jplay uses - I think that may be why he sticks with his DAC - it helps a lot.


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## DaveBSC

Quote: 





gavtorn said:


> Just a standard seasonic x460 fanless w/ shunyata venom 3 p/cord.
> 
> Most of the specs and tweaks for the music server are from the jplay forum.


 
   
  I see. There may be a benefit to using a shielded PC as opposed to unshielded, but that's it. Using anything better on a standard ATX power supply shouldn't have any effect on the quality of the DC at the other end. If DC ripple on any of the rails was reduced by even a few mV, or if voltage regulation improved, that would shut the "power cords are all snake oil" folks up for good. I've never seen that demonstrated.


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## Lenni

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Gwarmi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> @Lenni / Gavtorn
> 
> ...


 
   
  I don't have any issue with expensive power cords either, but I think you've your priority wrong. not as bad a Patrick82 though... the guy paid $20k+ for a custom built monstrous power cord to be used with a pair of powered Adam 7's or 5's and an external emu soundcard or something. ridiculous!
   
  a fan-less desk-top PC will not do. you need a dedicated music server like the one listed in my sig. top priority. I'd rather use that music server with a cheap DAC/AMP/Cables, than an expensive DAC/AMP/etc..with a desktop PC. seriously.


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## DaveBSC

Quote: 





lenni said:


> a fan-less desk-top PC will not do. you need a dedicated music server like the one listed in my sig. top priority. I'd rather use that music server with a cheap DAC/AMP/Cables, than an expensive DAC/AMP/etc..with a desktop PC. seriously.


 
   
  All of the evidence I've seen suggests that a properly configured desktop PC can match or exceed the performance of $5K+ dedicated music servers - many of which are glorified PCs in a headless case, running some variant of Linux. Unless I'm mistaken, Chris over at Computer Audiophile has yet to test a dedicated server that outperformed his "CAPS" desktop, a basic integrated Mini-ITX Atom based computer with a crappy switching power supply, running Windows and JRiver. The fully tricked out PCs that the guys in the JPlay forum have should stomp all over the CAPS sever.
   
  Further, the two setups that TAS awarded Best Digital Sound at the last RMAF were both running Mach2Music Minis, not dedicated servers. I'd be willing to bet that a JPlay server into a top shelf USB DAC like the Empirical Overdrive could beat any dedicated server under $10K.


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## Gwarmi

Quote: 





lenni said:


> I don't have any issue with expensive power cords either, but I think you've your priority wrong. not as bad a Patrick82 though... the guy paid $20k+ for a custom built monstrous power cord to be used with a pair of powered Adam 7's or 5's and an external emu soundcard or something. ridiculous!
> 
> a fan-less desk-top PC will not do. you need a dedicated music server like the one listed in my sig. top priority. I'd rather use that music server with a cheap DAC/AMP/Cables, than an expensive DAC/AMP/etc..with a desktop PC. seriously.


 
   
   
   Yeh Lenni I like to do things a little differently 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For example I had my Rega, V200 and Audiophilleo for a dang long while and all I had was a Grado 325i and
   AKG K601 - plenty of Head-Fi folk said at the time - why aren't you buying a flagship for that rig? I did in the end - the PS1000 but many would tell you on
   here that the correct way is to eg, buy a HD800 or PS1000 and run it off let's say a $270 Audio-gd NFB-12 Dac/Amp and then upgrade from there.
   
   Horses for courses. I still believe that it worked for me as many mid $400-$500 offerings sound pretty darn good if the rig is up to task.


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## Lenni

I don't know what Chris of CA has tested over *his* CAPS server, and how much I can rely on what he says. the difference between my desktop PC and the music server is amazing. like I said I'd rather use this server with a cheap dac, than a uber expensive dac plugged into a notebook. I'm pretty certain the former will sound ten times better than the latter.
   
  I've never been to a meet, but from the photos posted here of various meets I see a lot of expensive gear used, but also there're a lot of various notebooks around, which seem to be used as servers. not the way to go, imo.


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## gavtorn

Quote: 





lenni said:


> I don't have any issue with expensive power cords either, but I think you've your priority wrong. not as bad a Patrick82 though... the guy paid $20k+ for a custom built monstrous power cord to be used with a pair of powered Adam 7's or 5's and an external emu soundcard or something. ridiculous!
> 
> a fan-less desk-top PC will not do. you need a dedicated music server like the one listed in my sig. top priority. I'd rather use that music server with a cheap DAC/AMP/Cables, than an expensive DAC/AMP/etc..with a desktop PC. seriously.


 
  Hey Lenni -
   
  The AMS looks to be a customised linux PC?  I am sure they creators have done their homework and have it well setup, especially if you think it beats a desktop PC.
   
  Are you able to post pics of the insides?  I would be interested to see if it uses a Pico PSU.
   
  Thanks,
   
  gav.


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## Lenni

gavtorn, I've sent the AMS back for a minor change. I'll take some pics of the insides once I get it back.
   
  I wonder how much the SOtM tx-USB has to do with difference in sound, probably quite a bit.


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## DaveBSC

Quote: 





lenni said:


> I don't know what Chris of CA has tested over *his* CAPS server, and how much I can rely on what he says. the difference between my desktop PC and the music server is amazing. like I said I'd rather use this server with a cheap dac, than a uber expensive dac plugged into a notebook. I'm pretty certain the former will sound ten times better than the latter.
> 
> I've never been to a meet, but from the photos posted here of various meets I see a lot of expensive gear used, but also there're a lot of various notebooks around, which seem to be used as servers. not the way to go, imo.


 
   
  Notebooks are really problematic. You have a lot of stuff shoved into a too small space, and they aren't designed to run their CPUs at a fixed clock. You're also stuck with the onboard USB ports. You can use something like the Lab Brick to help deal with that, (or Empirical's Short Block if your device draws no bus power) but you can't use the ideal solution, the Adnaco USB over fiber which requires a PCI-e slot.
   
  The typical ordinary use desktop into a DAC via a sound card using something like Foobar isn't any better. I've tried it, and the sound was nowhere near as good as a $400 CD player, or even the line-out of my Hifiman HM-801 if you can believe that. What you need is a purpose built PC, one that runs the absolute bare minimum of software. If you're using Windows, that includes eliminating every service that isn't absolutely necessary for the computer to run. All of the power saving features have to be turned off, the CPU should always be at a fixed clock, running full speed. Then you need to go USB, either into a converter like the Off-Ramp and then on to your DAC of choice, or a USB DAC at least as good as the Calyx or Anedio D2.


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## estreeter

Finally, a product out of the Southern Hemishphere - free delivery if you live in Oz or NZ:
   
http://www.antipodesaudio.com/music_servers.html
   

   
  Now all I have to do is find *2400 AUD* and find some way of getting this to Thailand when I move in 2014. Other than that, its all good downunder right now - huzzah !   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Forgot about this - aaarrggghhhh  - half of bloody NZ lives here, but we would still have to pay Customs Duty per this example:
   
If the Customs value (CV) of imported Goods = $1,500.00 
Then the Customs Duty @ 5% of the $1,500 (CV) =* $75.00 (Payable) *
Assuming the international transport and insurance (T&I) = $125.00 
Then the VoTI = (CV) + Duty + (T&I) = $1,700.00 
GST = 10% of the VoTI = 10% x $1,700 = *$170.00 (Payable) *
Therefore the *Total Duty plus GST payable = $245.00*


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## Gwarmi

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Finally, a product out of the Southern Hemishphere - free delivery if you live in Oz or NZ:
> 
> http://www.antipodesaudio.com/music_servers.html
> 
> ...


 
   
   Quite a good looking unit - this appears to be a large part of the puzzle in that box
   
   The *SOtM tx-USB *output card
   
   
   
   That and the power supply
   
_ "We also offer a high quality Linear Power Supply for 220-240V 50-60Hz operation, with ripple <0.05% RMS. This AMS Linear Power Supply _
_ lifts the performance of the AMS with a lower noise floor, greater resolution and dynamics.

 Dimensions: 55mm (H) x 165mm (W) x 237mm (D).

 The AMS Linear Power Supply meets:
 - EMC Radiated Noise & Conducted Noise Standard EN55022-A
 - EMC Safety Standard IEC950 & AS/NZ3260:1993 "_
   
_ _You could in theory build it for less - the SOtm card for example is $300USD + freight, the case would be pricey for sure and that power supply - no idea.
   
   The rest is just DIY PC bits and bobs available from any PC tech shack.


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## DaveBSC

That's the main issue I have with a lot of these $3,000 servers, they are mostly standard computer parts. Custom cases with integrated heatpipe fanless cooling systems are expensive on their own, but you can use a standard MATX case and something like the Nofan CR-95C and achieve pretty much the same effect. The Adnaco completely severs the USB ground, which the SoTM card can't do.
   
  I'm also not convinced that these Linux builds can outperform JPlay in full hibernation/overdrive mode.


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## gavtorn

I'm pretty sure Marcin (admin from JPlay) stopped using SOTM once he found the adnaco s3.
   
  The benefit of the SOTM USB is that power can be supplemented from an external source or disconnected completely - if a Calyx DAC with outboard PSU / battery or something like a JKSPDIF / pure power ap2 converter with battery power is used it will pretty much negate the effects of the SOTM usb card.
   
  There are also posts on the JPlay forum where people take out the SOTM SATA filters in their systems after a while..
   
   
  Gwarmi - look up the PICO PSU - put that in a PC and connect it to a _good_ linear power supply and you could be on to a winner.  Even using it with a laptop style power brick is meant to be ok.
   
  The fact that the antipodes server uses a standard PCI card and runs Linux shows that it is nothing more than a tweaked HTPC.  It may be a really good one however...


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## estreeter

Quote: 





davebsc said:


> That's the main issue I have with a lot of these $3,000 servers, they are mostly standard computer parts. Custom cases with integrated heatpipe fanless cooling systems are expensive on their own, but you can use a standard MATX case and something like the Nofan CR-95C and achieve pretty much the same effect. The Adnaco completely severs the USB ground, which the SoTM card can't do.
> 
> I'm also not convinced that these Linux builds can outperform JPlay in full hibernation/overdrive mode.


 
   
  Wasnt that the whole concept behind the CAPS Server ? From memory, at least per Chris' specs, it still comes in at *1500USD and you have to build the thing yourself.* He lost me when he chose the most bloated version of Win 7 as his OS - I know Chris has put a lot of time and effort into evaluating different operating systems, but I'd love to DBT the finished product against the competition - be it PC-based or a network streamer from NAD/Marantz/Naim. Most of the focus on various forums seems to have shifted away from the objectives Chris set himself for the project - I think they are worth revisiting - 
   
   

 Absolutely silent.
 Capable of great sound.
 Great looking.
 No moving parts.
 Fairly inexpensive.
 No legacy components.
 Easy to operate.
 Directly or
 Remotely

 Easy to assemble / install
 Assembly / installation by one's self or
 Assembly / installation by local computer shop, son, daughter, neighbor, or friend.

 Small size.
 Low power consumption.
 Low heat.
 Accept an add-in card for audio or additional capabilities. Hardware & Software must accept appropriate add-in cards.
 Play 16/44.1, 24/44.1, 24/88.2, 24/96, 24/176.4, and 24/192 all bit perfect.
   
  I don't know about anyone else, but I believe you CAN achieve all of those with a barebones Linux-based PC and a NAS box - the biggest potential stumbling block being drivers for some of the more exotic cards - but Chris took a different path.
   
   

 *Motherboard*: Jetway NF96FL-525-LF ($167)

 | Manual (PDF)

 | Logic Supply Product Page


 *Memory*: Transcend DDR2 667 Memory 2GBx2 ($53 x 2 Modules = $106)

 | Datasheet

 | Logic Supply Product Page


 *Solid State Drive*: Microcenter Brand 64GB SATA II 3.0Gb/s 2.5" G2 Series


 *Power Adapter*: Casetronic PW-12V5A-L5 DC 12V, 60W Level 5 ($23.50)

 | Logic Supply Page


 *Computer Case*: Origenae M10 ($320)

 | Product Purchase Page

 | User Guide (PDF)

 | Brochure (PDF)


 *PCI to USB Card*: SOtM tX-USB ($339)

 | Purchase Page

 | Operating Instructions (PDF)


 *SATA Power Filter*: SOtM In-Line SATA Power Noise Filter ($65) / Product Purchase Page


 *Internal Power Adapter*: Nippon Labs SATA to Molex Power Adapter SATA - SATA 15 Pin Male to Molex 4 pin female ($6)


 *Operating System*: Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 64-bit ($185)

 | Newegg Product Page


 *Playback Application*: J River Media Center 16 ($50)


 *(Optional) PCI FireWire Card*: SYBA SD-VIA-FW1E1H ($8)

 | User Manual (JPG)

 | Newegg Product Page


   
  The thing that stands out about any such build is that the urge to keep tinkering would be tough to resist - for some thats a bonus, but it doesnt spell 'budget build' in my universe. I know some people have modded 'black boxes' like the SB Touch, but for most folk such gizmos are *plug, play and ignore* - regardless of the sonics relative to something like the CAPS server, the black box approach has a lot of appeal for those of us who dont want to keep swapping cards in the eternal quest for that elusive silver bullet.


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## DaveBSC

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Wasnt that the whole concept behind the CAPS Server ? From memory, at least per Chris' specs, it still comes in at *1500USD and you have to build the thing yourself.* He lost me when he chose the most bloated version of Win 7 as his OS - I know Chris has put a lot of time and effort into evaluating different operating systems, but I'd love to DBT the finished product against the competition - be it PC-based or a network streamer from NAD/Marantz/Naim. Most of the focus on various forums seems to have shifted away from the objectives Chris set himself for the project - I think they are worth revisiting -


 
   
  Well the CAPS as he laid it out isn't exactly hard to build. You don't even need any thermal paste, you just screw a few parts in and you're done. I could build that in.. ten minutes? What I don't understand is where the value is with some of these products. The Auraliti PK90 USB is $750, and it includes the SoTM card. Granted there's no internal storage, but even a 512GB SSD will only add a few hundred more dollars. Why are these other servers $2-3K, when they do exactly the same thing? I'm betting there's _a lot _of profit margin in most of these boxes, many of which are from companies that didn't exist two years ago.
   
  I do understand the appeal of a box you buy, plug in, and turn on. Unfortunately they don't solve everything, at least not yet. There's still many USB products that either don't work with Linux at all, or with certain flavors of Linux - the Empirical products being big ones. The old Auraliti which I think has been discontinued used a Juli@ for its output (as does the Bryston server which is Auraliti based), which isn't even on the same planet as something like the Off-Ramp. Many of the others use a Lynx card which can match the $500 and below converters, but is still not ideal.
   
  The DIY PC server is definitely for someone who likes to tweak, and if you do go the JPlay hibernation route, it's far less convenient than the servers which offer full web/iOS/Android control. If it doesn't sound better than the PK90 USB, or the Sonore server or any of the others, there's little reason to do it.


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## estreeter

Good points - I tried JPLAY Hibernate and didnt have much luck. It doesnt seem to work with the MSII - works straight from the HO on my laptop but that's kinda defeating the whole 'better sound' thing ..... 
   
  Still, I'll definitely keep a weather eye on those forums - JPLAY and CA - those guys are continually ferreting out _new and interesting ways_ to spend what can only be *impressive* *trust funds* !  P86 once intimated to me that he feels the _average_ CA user seems to have more disposable income than the _average_ Head-Fier - based on some of the sigs over there, I suspect they have more disposable income than most Australian State governments ....  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'm hoping that the first commercially available *3D printers for the home* will allow me to assemble a very impressive set of hi-fi lookalikes so I can update my sig too.


----------



## DaveBSC

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Good points - I tried JPLAY Hibernate and didnt have much luck. It doesnt seem to work with the MSII - works straight from the HO on my laptop but that's kinda defeating the whole 'better sound' thing .....
> 
> Still, I'll definitely keep a weather eye on those forums - JPLAY and CA - those guys are continually ferreting out _new and interesting ways_ to spend what can only be *impressive* *trust funds* !  P86 once intimated to me that he feels the _average_ CA user seems to have more disposable income than the _average_ Head-Fier - based on some of the sigs over there, I suspect they have more disposable income than most Australian State governments ....


 
   
  There's a thread on the JPlay forum covering DACs which work, or don't, with hibernation mode. If anything I think a DIY JPlay box can act as quite a bargain in terms of a source. Parts cost will be a bit more than the CAPS in some areas because little Atom CPUs won't cut it, but you don't have to blow $300 on a case like Chris did. Even the $5K Aurender S10 is using what appear to be off the shelf internal SATA cables, when getting the drive out of the box entirely (and using an optical rather than electrical connection) is a much better option. I've also seen less than amazing results from the $4500+ Bladelius.
   
  Its quite possible that one of the mega buck Naim servers would crush everything in its path, I certainly wouldn't be surprised. For a source under $2K though, I think the custom JPlay box makes a very strong case for itself.


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## Lenni

I should probably start a new thread as this topic deserve its own thread, and is also getting off-topic.
   
  anyway, my desktop PC is a two-year old Dell Studio XPS. it's not the fastest PC, but it's not slow either, by any standard. I've always felt that the PC was the weakest link in the system, always. but I didn't know what to do. I tried different DACs, cables, etc., which it all helped in some way or another, but there's still this nagging sensation or frustration of something not quite right at the sound. as I found out was it totally justified as the PC it's c**p.
   
  what makes the AMS so much better that a regular PC I don't really know. I can speculate that the SOtM card may have something to do with it. but I think there's more to it than just assembling various PC parts IKEA style. that's the reason the CAPS didn't appeal to me. whether the CAP or any other similar styled server mentioned here or elsewhere are better than the AMS is not the issue for me. the fact still remains the AMS is good, maybe not perfect, but really good. what I'm hearing is hi-end audio, and it's beautiful. with the PC it's a mediocre mid-fi sound in comparison. when I say I'd rather use the AMS with a cheap DAC than a very expensive one with a desktop PC I'm not kidding or exaggerating one little bit. would I rather spend the money on upgrading the speakers? absolutely 100%.. NO.
   
  I think we've become stuck with the idea that a DAC is the main part in the system; like you need to use an expensive DAC with your PC to get the best sound. of course a good DAC will help more than a cheap one, but it's not the be all and end all holy grail. far from it. the saying garbage in, garbage out still very much applies here, at least in my case. I know these kind of servers are still relatively new in the audiophile scene, probably because the previous once were not much better than a notebook, but I think eventually they will replace the CD player. it already has in my case.


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## DaveBSC

Quote: 





lenni said:


> what makes the AMS so much better that a regular PC I don't really know. I can speculate that the SOtM card may have something to do with it. but I think there's more to it than just assembling various PC parts IKEA style. that's the reason the CAPS didn't appeal to me. whether the CAP or any other similar styled server mentioned here or elsewhere are better than the AMS is not the issue for me. the fact still remains the AMS is good, maybe not perfect, but really good. what I'm hearing is hi-end audio, and it's beautiful. with the PC it's a mediocre mid-fi sound in comparison. when I say I'd rather use the AMS with a cheap DAC than a very expensive one with a desktop PC I'm not kidding or exaggerating one little bit. would I rather spend the money on upgrading the speakers? absolutely 100%.. NO.
> 
> I think we've become stuck with the idea that a DAC is the main part in the system; like you need to use an expensive DAC with your PC to get the best sound. of course a good DAC will help more than a cheap one, but it's not the be all and end all holy grail. far from it. the saying garbage in, garbage out still very much applies here, at least in my case. I know these kind of servers are still relatively new in the audiophile scene, probably because the previous once were not much better than a notebook, but I think eventually they will replace the CD player. it already has in my case.


 
   
  It's not just parts selection. Any regular desktop computer that you use for web browsing and word processing and is loaded with AV software and whatever else is just not going to work. You can't have a general purpose computer that's also an ultra high-end source, it's just not possible at least with the hardware and software currently available. If you want to go the PC route, you have to build one solely for the purpose of music playback. Windows (stripped down to the bare essentials) USB DAC or converter drivers and that's _it. _A linear power supply isn't really practical for something Core i5 powered, but you want a PSU that has an iron grip on its 12V and 5V rails, not something Dell buys in bulk at the lowest possible cost.
   
  The SoTM card is fine, better when externally powered, but the Adnaco goes a step further. No direct electrical connection will always be better than even a heavily filtered one when it comes to controlling noise.
   
  A common theme around these parts is either the completely misguided "digital is digital" crowd who thinks anything bit-perfect is "flawless", or the slightly less but still very much misguided "DACs fix everything" crowd who believe that a $50 DVD player will sound the same as a $50K belt driven Burmester transport because the input stage of any "well designed DAC" is some sort of miracle cure-all. It would be absolutely fantastic if that were the case, you could then use any PC with optical out and get the greatest sound in the world. Unfortunately that completely ignores a little thing called *timing* that both the "bit perfect" and "DACs are perfect" crowds utterly fail to understand.
   
  I should also add that most of these servers including the AMS and Sonore run VortexBox, which is free to download and available to anyone per Linux rules. There's nothing stopping you from making your own VortexBox server as opposed to Windows and JPlay.


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## Gwarmi

Quote: 





lenni said:


> I should probably start a new thread as this topic deserve its own thread, and is also getting off-topic.
> 
> anyway, my desktop PC is a two-year old Dell Studio XPS. it's not the fastest PC, but it's not slow either, by any standard. I've always felt that the PC was the weakest link in the system, always. but I didn't know what to do. I tried different DACs, cables, etc., which it all helped in some way or another, but there's still this nagging sensation or frustration of something not quite right at the sound. as I found out was it totally justified as the PC it's c**p.
> 
> ...


 
   
   Early adopter times Lenni 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   It can be frustrating, not only with one's own music but also battling with the status quo that seems content with hooking up $3,000+
   DAC's to simple, multi application laptops (read: setup for web, email, virus protection etc etc)
   
   I hear you in any case - I've thrown myself into the deep end chasing a lower noise floor and blacker ground via this power cord pursuit,
   but make no mistake the real dividends will pay off when I finally fire everything up with a proper music server build.
   
   Good news is that I may have an encounter soon enough with an Antipodes (NZ) server in the coming days or weeks - very keen to assess it.
   
   Here is the test that I propose - Take a DAC in the $1,000-ish region (<add your own>, Burson, Rega, AudioLab, Audio-gd Ref 5.2) -
   now let's hook it up to a Woo Audio transport and play the following single track - _*Hotel California*_ - from this album:-
   
   
   
   Next, we turn to 'Exact Audio Copy' or EAC as most of us know it by - straight to *.WAV on the Antipodes music server and let's see the results.
   
   FYI - the test CD rig will comprise of either the Woo Audio WTP transport or a Luxman D05 SACD player (used as a transport via
   optical out - remember it remains a $5,995 player down here in Oz). 
   
   Results? Stay tuned - no idea myself - I can say this though regarding another 'tangent' of audio - I have this for the remaining weekend.
   
   
   
  Has it helped? Well it has exposed my interconnects without doubt as the source of my woe - everything matters. Head-Fi is nothing more than
  a condensed, micro version of the Hi-Fi world.


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## estreeter

Gwarmi, I'm tempted to post a couple of paras from Stereophile into this thread, but I've been part of a major derailment already so I'll leave it there. All I will say is that Steve Nugent claims he can re-clock _almost_ any source and give your DAC  a much better shot at wrestling those bits into something resembling aural bliss, and Stereophile seemed happy to march to that tune. I have no idea how well that does or doesnt work with JPLAY in Hibernate mode, or whether its an instant panacea for every digital nasty out there. 
   
  Look forward to further developments in your quest for the 'ultimate'.


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## Gwarmi

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Gwarmi, I'm tempted to post a couple of paras from Stereophile into this thread, but I've been part of a major derailment already so I'll leave it there. All I will say is that Steve Nugent claims he can re-clock _almost_ any source and give your DAC  a much better shot at wrestling those bits into something resembling aural bliss, and Stereophile seemed happy to march to that tune. I have no idea how well that does or doesnt work with JPLAY in Hibernate mode, or whether its an instant panacea for every digital nasty out there.
> 
> Look forward to further developments in your quest for the 'ultimate'.


 
   
   Mate, no need for explanations on the derailment - I'm sure we're both old and crusty enough to know that
   this site reveals the most insightful views on segway threads  At least, that's my experience anyway
   - derailments tend to take care of themselves unless of course we are discussing another thread along the
   lines of '*Dre Beats Vs AT-M50 Mega Showdown, Live Live - Be There!!*'
   
   As for relevant revelations concerning the subject of this thread - I can say that I thoroughly enjoyed myself last
   night with the C5 to IEC connector on my Rega source with the Nordost Heimdall Revision 2
   
   
   
   Now this cable in 'theory' - is not in the same league as the forthcoming Shunyata Cobra
   nonetheless, it gave me a rendition of Roy Orbison's classics like I'd never heard before
    there is an element of 'blackness' to his material, his voice emanating from a distant place
    it remains hauntingly good.
   
   Recycling back to the very start of this thread - I am starting to believe and understand
   ol' Caelin Gabriel when he says 
*'*
*There was a noisy grain **always riding the music'.*


----------



## DaveBSC

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Gwarmi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Now this cable in 'theory' - is not in the same league as the forthcoming Shunyata Cobra
> nonetheless, it gave me a rendition of Roy Orbison's classics like I'd never heard before
> ...


 
  Uh oh, back on topic! In my old system I experimented with quite a few power cords and conditioners, and I was quite surprised by the differences that many of them brought.
   
  I started with the old PS Audio cords of two generations ago. The Prelude IIRC was a sub $200 cord. Not amazing, but definitely better than the stock cord on my Parasound amp. The removable ground pin also solved the hum that old Parasound amps are well known for, without having to use a performance destroying $2 cheater plug made out of the cheapest metal imaginable. From there I moved to a Statement, which was a pretty good lesson on how not to design a power cord. It was basically 800 tons of copper and 800 tons of shielding - following the "more is more" school. The sound was muddy and lifeless.
   
  From there I went to an entry-level Siltech which was nice, but a little bass lean, definitely more of a source cord. Then came a Wireworld Electra, which as far as I could tell did absolutely nothing over stock. Unless I'm mistaken, the WW also had its shield connected at both ends, which is how you _don't _use a shield.
   
  I had an absolutely mammoth Custom Power Cord Company HCF, which was impossible to handle and mostly sounded weird, rather than good. Then came the ElectraGlide Epiphanys, first one, then more so that every component in the system had an Epiphany cord attached. That was the best the system sounded at that point. Unfortunately the owner of EG was not that reputable, and the quality of his cords went WAY downhill until he finally closed up his shop entirely.
   
  After selling that system and going to headphones exclusively, I changed to a B-P-T conditioner and tried a bunch of stuff, and I ultimately settled on Kubala Sosna Emotion which are the best I've heard to date. I'm sure the K-S Elation and Jorma Prime and the mega buck Siltech Royal series are all wonderful, but they also all cost silly amounts of money.


----------



## Gwarmi

Quote: 





davebsc said:


> Uh oh, back on topic! In my old system I experimented with quite a few power cords and conditioners, and I was quite surprised by the differences that many of them brought.
> 
> I started with the old PS Audio cords of two generations ago. The Prelude IIRC was a sub $200 cord. Not amazing, but definitely better than the stock cord on my Parasound amp. The removable ground pin also solved the hum that old Parasound amps are well known for, without having to use a performance destroying $2 cheater plug made out of the cheapest metal imaginable. From there I moved to a Statement, which was a pretty good lesson on how not to design a power cord. It was basically 800 tons of copper and 800 tons of shielding - following the "more is more" school. The sound was muddy and lifeless.
> 
> ...


 
   
   Cor, makes my looming Shunyata Cobra seem like a meal coupon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   $3,000 per metre!


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## DaveBSC

Quote: 





gwarmi said:


> Cor, makes my looming Shunyata Cobra seem like a meal coupon
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Where'd you see that? When I got them they started at $1,000, I think they are a bit more now, but only like $1200-1400, not $3,000.


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## estreeter

Any thoughts on Vinnie's Black Lightning for things like DACs/streamers ?  
   
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/redwine13/1.html
   
  There is a little voice telling me that this would work with the Topping TP-60, but I guess there is only one way to find out.


----------



## DaveBSC

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Any thoughts on Vinnie's Black Lightning for things like DACs/streamers ?
> 
> http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/redwine13/1.html
> 
> There is a little voice telling me that this would work with the Topping TP-60, but I guess there is only one way to find out.


 
   
  It's A LOT more expensive than a linear PSU from Hynes, and I really wonder how much better it is, especially given the hassle of recharging, and the fact that the batteries will eventually wear out.


----------



## estreeter

Point taken, Dave. but when I see folks using 12V marine batteries in their living rooms, I dont think this is such a bad idea. Agree re cost, but for the nth degree folk out there ....


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## DaveBSC

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Point taken, Dave. but when I see folks using 12V marine batteries in their living rooms, I dont think this is such a bad idea. Agree re cost, but for the nth degree folk out there ....


 

 I should add that the impressions in the 6moons review mirror pretty much exactly impressions I saw of a comparison between a Hynes LPS and a battery supply made by B-P-T powering an Empirical Off-Ramp 3. The short, short version: the wallwart is a bit crap, the battery supply is a bit more lush and tubelike, the LPS has more detail, but the differences were fairly minor. 
   
  How effective the LPS will be depends of course on the incoming AC. You can put a nice line conditioner in front of it, and some good power cords, but that erases any price advantage for the LPS, it would actually be much more expensive if you don't already own any of that stuff.
   
  There is definitely appeal in going completely off the grid and it wouldn't be that hard to do. Partner some high efficiency speakers like Tektons with a RWA Signature 30 and a battery powered Bel Canto CD-2 and you're done.


----------



## estreeter

Dave, I seem to recall that you were lukewarm on the Evo, but M2Tech have a cheaper battery-powered PSU for those who feel a little more enthusiastic about their products:


----------



## DaveBSC

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Dave, I seem to recall that you were lukewarm on the Evo, but M2Tech have a cheaper battery-powered PSU for those who feel a little more enthusiastic about their products:


 
   
  I just don't think its worth $500, or even more with their battery supply. M2Tech's products all seem to under perform vs. their competitors at every level, whether we're talking Hiface, EVO, Young, etc.


----------



## Gwarmi

Just a tangent thought on DaveBSC's comments concerning the M2Tech - cynical I may be but I fail to think of any
   product, audio or not - coming out of Italy at a very competitive price point (pasta aside 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) that somehow
   can level or compete with other alternatives from the US, Asia and Europe.
   
   _*'Made In Italy' *_is expensive, more so it seems than rival German and French products. No idea why that
   seems to be.


----------



## DaveBSC

Quote: 





gwarmi said:


> Just a tangent thought on DaveBSC's comments concerning the M2Tech - cynical I may be but I fail to think of any
> product, audio or not - coming out of Italy at a very competitive price point (pasta aside
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  For what it's worth, I've heard very very good things about Rosso Fiorentino speakers, but I have no personal experience with them. Their flagship Siena is about $24K, which is pretty much inline with comparable speakers from other parts of the world based on similar twin cabinet designs (Von Schweikert, etc). Italian _electronics _though, they generally are not known to be on the same level as top brands from Switzerland, Japan, Germany, or the US.


----------



## estreeter

Cant say I have any particular love for the Unico range from Unison Research (funky styling choices that just dont strike a chord with me personally), but they seem to get favourable reviews. Just cant see how gear at this price range can compete with the avalanche of competition coming out of China atm.
   
http://en.unisonresearch.com/686-2/
   
  They certainly seem to have a heritage - not sure how well that translates to the sonics, but its there nonetheless:
   
http://en.unisonresearch.com/chi-siamo/


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## Gwarmi

A very interesting interview and read with Mr Shunyata - Caelin Gabriel
   
   http://www.theaudiobeat.com/visits/shunyata_visit_interview.htm
   
   Well worth a look.


----------



## gavtorn

did you get the cobra yet?


----------



## Gwarmi

Quote: 





gavtorn said:


> did you get the cobra yet?


 
   
   Still weeks away mate - they build them to order, especially for the Aussie market as it makes little sense for a US company to hold
   stock of $1000+ power cables with AUS termination on hand - waiting by the telephone for someone to call from down under.
   
   Totally understandable - patience is key


----------



## Gwarmi

Yes, it finally arrived 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   

   
   

   
   

   
   

   
   

   
  Speaking overall out of the box? Impressed. It renders exactly what it is meant to do - lower noise floor all round and a sizable sound-stage and separation
  increase depending on the amplifier - my V200 no longer sounds like a boxed in cage. Worthy of recommendation to others? It remains difficult to speculate on
  that front since interconnects will also play their part outside of the gear that this happens to be plugged into.
   
  I'm a happy camper, coupled with the rest of the Nordost gear - auditioning between the hours of 11pm+ to 1am - my rig remains 'black as night' - exactly what
  I desired in the first place.


----------



## Gwarmi

Just a small update past the 80-90+ hour mark - this Cobra is really something. They say the small things are sometimes what count the most.
   
   This being true for this unit - in the last few weeks it has spent time being plugged into all sorts of gear ranging from the Luxman P1-u to
   the Ray Samuels Dark Star - each time, particularly in the case of the Dark Star it has had a fairly profound effect on the overall sound.
   
   Harshness and a tendency to sound cold and analytical on the DS just melted away. At the same time, I can report that not all gear
   appears to respond the same. The Ray Samuels Raptor and new Burson Soloist did benefit somewhat with the same symptoms but
   not as much as let's say my very own V200 or the Dark Star as mentioned above.
   
   All up I cannot discount the prospect of picking up a second unit somewhere down the track when my finances are looking a
   little healthier


----------



## DaveBSC

Quote: 





gwarmi said:


> Just a small update past the 80-90+ hour mark - this Cobra is really something. They say the small things are sometimes what count the most.
> 
> This being true for this unit - in the last few weeks it has spent time being plugged into all sorts of gear ranging from the Luxman P1-u to
> the Ray Samuels Dark Star - each time, particularly in the case of the Dark Star it has had a fairly profound effect on the overall sound.
> ...


 
   
  Nice. Some power supplies are better at rejecting AC noise than others, and some just respond better to different cord designs. Unfortunately trial and error is the only way to find out.


----------



## Gwarmi

Quote: 





davebsc said:


> Nice. Some power supplies are better at rejecting AC noise than others, and some just respond better to different cord designs. Unfortunately trial and error is the only way to find out.


 
   
   Trial and error - that should be a Head-Fi slogan, it is both the boon and bane of this hobby 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   Hopefully someone else on here picks up a unit too for comparative opinions.


----------

