# Upgraded Power Cord for Tube Amp



## No Deal

Is there any evidence that tube amps benefit from the use of upgraded power cords? Has anyone been impressed by a particular cord?


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## PascalT

Wouldn't the only reason to upgrade a power cord is if you have noise/ground loop issues? I doubt it increases or changes sound quality otherwise. correct me if i am wrong


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## nautikal

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PascalT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wouldn't the only reason to upgrade a power cord is if you have noise/ground loop issues? I doubt it increases or changes sound quality otherwise. correct me if i am wrong 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Have you heard any after market power cables? If not you really shouldn't comment. I don't mean to sound harsh, but it's the truth.


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## royalcrown

There's no real solid (i.e. scientific/peer reviewed/DBT) evidence that any amp benefits from power cord upgrades. Some believe that a difference exists. Some don't, and hold out for scientific proof. You're kind of on your own here. If you want to experiment, I'd suggest buying the lowest end from a manufacturer that offers some sort of money back guarantee. Of course, I'd also check the forums to see if that money back guarantee actually means something (sometimes that guarantee means squat)


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## No Deal

I have seen the debates on this issue go on for more years than I can remember. Believe me it was not my intent to start one here. I recently received an amp that came without a power cord. As I rummaged through a box in the garage to find something black and generic to use, I wondered again if the quality of the cord would really make a difference and further, if it would make a difference on a tube amp.

 There is also a review posted here that made me wonder. The low end cord that I was going to buy (PS Audio) is the one that the reviewer hated. Maybe if it doesn't make a difference anyway I should just buy it and move on.

 Yes. I know what is inside the wall. *ROMEX!*


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## Pangaea

Try a iron lung jelly fish- 30 bucks. I just got an Arietta which came without a power cord as well and decided instead of getting a radio shack special I would put a little more money behind it. Unfort. without a generic one to A/B I can't really comment on the differences, but it does sound good. I would bet this has much more to do with the Arietta than the cord.


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## milkpowder

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pangaea* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Try a iron lung jelly fish- 30 bucks. I just got an Arietta which came without a power cord as well and decided instead of getting a radio shack special I would put a little more money behind it. Unfort. without a generic one to A/B I can't really comment on the differences, but it does sound good.* I would bet this has much more to do with the Arietta than the cord*._

 

I would certainly hope so! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Personally, I've yet to see the light. My dad got a PS Audio xStream Statement SC a few months ago to replace the stock cord on his CD spinner. Didn't hear a darned difference at all. Luckily, it cost no more than $600. I'd be royally pissed off (and I'm sure my dad would too) if he got a fancy multi-thousand dollar Nordost/VD/[insert-company] cable and heard no differences. Understandably, neither of us will be venturing into the world of fancy aftermarket cables any time soon. Speaker/headphone cables and interconnects make a more significant impact IMHO. 

 (small confession: Howard, owner of the late Simply Stax and Listen Carefully, sells Cassiel power cables for Stax amplifiers which look quite intriguing
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They are reasonably priced considering what most manufacturers charge nowadays.)


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## No Deal

Right now I am leaning towards the Moon Audio silver interconnect and the iron lung jellyfish. I will revisit the power cord issue when the jellyfish wears out.


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## markl

Quote:


 My dad got a PS Audio xStream Statement SC a few months ago to replace the stock cord on his CD spinner. 
 

 That's because it's a lousy cord. I think it made the sound worse in my system (slooooooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwww....)


  Quote:


 Is there any evidence that tube amps benefit from the use of upgraded power cords? Has anyone been impressed by a particular cord? 
 

 I don't know what you mean by "evidence", but yes, virtually any audio device, tubed or otherwise, can benefit from a better cord.

 You might want to use my survey of cords as a jumping off point:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f22/it...7/#post2651170


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## dave-g

I'm in agreement, I've heard the difference, and it's nice to know that more expensive doesn't always equal better sound. I've even made a few cables of my own that allows some of my gear to sound better. Is it better insulation, different capacitance, more conductors, better conductors, better solder, more surface area on the blades? I've got no idea, but listen for yourself and see if different cables make a difference in your own systems. Most "real" hi-fi places will have loaner cables so you can try them out in your system, so you've got nothing to lose.
 Enjoy,

 Dave-G


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## No Deal

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's because it's a lousy cord. I think it made the sound worse in my system (slooooooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwww....)


 I don't know what you mean by "evidence", but yes, virtually any audio device, tubed or otherwise, can benefit from a better cord.

 You might want to use my survey of cords as a jumping off point:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f22/it...7/#post2651170_

 

I read the survey. That is one of the things that caused me to give this more consideration. After reading your post I am now wondering again if the best thing to do is purchase a highly rated cord from your survey or go low bid. Then there's the jellyfish.


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## takezo

i've owned a $150+ power cord and made myself another using 
 oyaide tunami cryo treated cable with marinco ends...they all 
 sounded good but really didn't stand out in my set up...

 but when i tried the cheap $9 volex cable, it was the equivalent
 of blowing out ones congested sinus...it really opened up the mids 
 and complimented the wa-6 maxed, a tube amp with an output 
 transformer...

 i'm not certain if this will work in all set ups because my dac is a
 very analytical and dynamic one and the diy oyaide cord made 
 little difference for the wa-6, most probably because it has similar
 characteristics of the dac that was feeding it...but the
 volex really opened up the mids and made the tube characteristics 
 of the wa-6 more pronounced...meaning that the tubes are more
 euphonic with that robust and weighty resonance that really
 shows up in vocals... without affecting the dynamics that i can
 discern...the soundstage and resolution is now more tube
 dependent than ever before...the wa-6 now compares competently
 with the singlepower mpx-3 slam se that i have...

 i'm now aware that power cords do make a significant difference
 and that it is very much set-up dependent...if you have a tube based
 dac or signal source that is warm, then utilizing a power cord of opposite
 characteristics is the way to go and vice versa...and in the same way,
 you should utilize the power cord that will compliment your amp, solid 
 state or tube based...

 i would suggest you try the jellyfish, volex17604 and a computer cord
 with the system you have, to see for yourself which makes
 the most impact in your set up and then go from there...good luck


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## OverlordXenu

There is absolutely no evidence supporting power cords improving (or even changing) sound. In fact, there is evidence against it.

 Don't waste your money. If you don't like a component, return/sell it and get something else.


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## markl

Quote:


 Then there's the jellyfish. 
 

 No harm in starting with a Jellyfish. Kick the tires, see if it does anything for you. If it does, know that there are more gains to be had by moving up. OTOH, you don't want to end up with $700 of power cable on $400 worth of amp, that makes no sense. You're better off upgrading your amp.

 Good luck!


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## No Deal

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ OTOH, you don't want to end up with $700 of power cable on $400 worth of amp, that makes no sense. You're better off upgrading your amp._

 

Well, I have $1000 worth of amp if that adds anything to the conversation. I probably would be willing to spend a couple of hundred for a cord but for what is the question. I am still leaning towards the jellyfish. If the cord makes no difference, I haven't lost much. If it does make a difference and I decide to carry this further, I won't feel bad about putting the jellyfish in a box.


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## Mher6

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is absolutely no evidence supporting power cords improving (or even changing) sound. In fact, there is evidence against it.

 Don't waste your money. If you don't like a component, return/sell it and get something else._

 

Do you think people haven't taken this into consideration? Posting this isn't going to turn a believer into a non-believer. Allow experimentation; owners will come up with a conclusion on their own.

 That being said, the other day I swapped my signal cable (digital reference) from my CDP to my amp, and noticed a substantial difference. A lot of dynamics and details were missing from the sound. So, I guess that makes me a believer.


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## kamal007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *No Deal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I have $1000 worth of amp if that adds anything to the conversation. I probably would be willing to spend a couple of hundred for a cord but for what is the question. I am still leaning towards the jellyfish. If the cord makes no difference, I haven't lost much. If it does make a difference and I decide to carry this further, I won't feel bad about putting the jellyfish in a box._

 

if you decide to sell the jellyfish, shoot me a pm


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## OverlordXenu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mher6* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you think people haven't taken this into consideration? Posting this isn't going to turn a believer into a non-believer. Allow experimentation; owners will come up with a conclusion on their own.

 That being said, the other day I swapped my signal cable (digital reference) from my CDP to my amp, and noticed a substantial difference. A lot of dynamics and details were missing from the sound. So, I guess that makes me a believer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm not trying to turn believers into non-believers...they are like religious extremists. No matter how much of their faith is disproved, nor how ridiculous it is, they still believe in it.

 I am trying to help fellows like the OP not waste their money on ridiculous expenses that will not improve the sound quality of their system.

 Tell me how it is rational to support the buying of $13,000 after-market power cables when there is no scientific evidence whatsoever supporting them, and there is some scientific evidence disproving them. If you want a link to some evidnce, PM me. It is one of those "evil" tests that we are not allowed to talk about, and I quite like this forum, so I would rather not be banned.

 Now, I am a bit confused about what you are talking about...Is that a power cable, interconnect, or a digital interconnect? The name isn't very clear...


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## takezo

for several years, i thought power cord rolling was a fool's game encouraged 
 and instigated by agents for sellers of such after market items...personally,
 swapping one power cord after the next made negligible differences in my 
 set up...that is until i tried the cheap volex 17604...it's still hard to believe the 
 difference in what i'm hearing now...i think this cheapo cord just has the 
 right synergy with my amp and dac...that's all...it's not voodoo magic nor
 extraterrestrial...

 btw, the volex 17604 is $10, the jellyfish is about $30 and a computer cord is
 about $5...


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## markl

Quote:


 I'm not trying to turn believers into non-believers...they are like religious extremists. No matter how much of their faith is disproved, nor how ridiculous it is, they still believe in it. 
 

 Dude, how do you explain me? I'm a hard-boiled atheist. Faith-based anything is anathema to me. Yet I know what I've heard from aftermarket power cords. They work.

 How is this different from faith? It can be tested and experienced by anyone (including you). No, you can't command "God" to suddenly appear and fill your "soul", but you can simply and easily replace your existing stock power cord and replace it with a better-quality aftermarket cord and experience the difference.

 It's easily testable, unlike religion, which is so fake and false, it's adherents have to fall back on blind "faith" to support their ridiculous positions.


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## OverlordXenu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dude, how do you explain me? I'm a hard-boiled atheist. Faith-based anything is anathema to me. Yet I know what I've heard from aftermarket power cords. They work.

 How is this different from faith? It can be tested and experienced by anyone (including you). No, you can't command "God" to suddenly appear and fill your "soul", but you can simply and easily replace your existing stock power cord and replace it with a better-quality aftermarket cord and experience the difference.

 It's easily testable, unlike religion, which is so fake and false, it's adherents have to fall back on blind "faith" to support their ridiculous positions._

 

In every scientifically-controlled test I've seen involving power cords, no one was able to tell a difference to any degree saying they could reliably tell the difference.

 Our ears are not acceptable benchmarks outside of a DBT. If we know what we are testing with our ears, taste buds, etc., we will have preconceived notions that affect our ability to objectively test that, either on a conscious or subconscious level. (Ie. flat-out lying vs. honestly thinking you hear a difference.)

 Power cords are like drinking straws...


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## Mher6

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not trying to turn believers into non-believers...they are like religious extremists. No matter how much of their faith is disproved, nor how ridiculous it is, they still believe in it._

 

And vice versa...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now, I am a bit confused about what you are talking about...Is that a power cable, interconnect, or a digital interconnect? The name isn't very clear..._

 

The Signal Cable Digital Reference is a power cable.


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## Mher6

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In every scientifically-controlled test I've seen involving power cords, no one was able to tell a difference to any degree saying they could reliably tell the difference.

 Our ears are not acceptable benchmarks outside of a DBT. If we know what we are testing with our ears, taste buds, etc., we will have preconceived notions that affect our ability to objectively test that, either on a conscious or subconscious level. (Ie. flat-out lying vs. honestly thinking you hear a difference.)

 Power cords are like drinking straws..._

 

If this were true, does it really matter? If we THINK we hear a difference, and it is a positive difference, we will enjoy the sound more, and therefore achieve our goal.

 I'm not sure how valid this is (as I have not read it yet), but VD has an article on their home page stating that their power cords have been tested to make a difference, SCIENTIFICALLY.

https://www.virtualdynamics.ca/content.php?id=254


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## dave-g

I don't have time for a complete post, but here are just some things to think about. 

 1. You can scientifically measure differences in cables. be it capacitance or resistance or flexibility or something else... there are values that can be measured.

 2. These differences may or may not interact with the other components in your system. 

 3. If they were to interact, would they produce a noticeable change?

 I think that it is logical if the cable was not a perfect conductor (they can't be, there will always be some type of loss) that the imperfections would impart some sonic difference. we just have to determine which cables have the imperfections that work best with our setups. 

 I may not be explaining this thoroughly enough for some of you, but i think you can see the spirit of what i'm trying to say... 

 Summary: anything that has a measurable value COULD produce a chance in sonic output.


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## Uncle Erik

Start out with the least expensive sturdy cable you can find. Listen to it. If you like the sound, then stop. If you like the sound there's no need to spend more.

 I do believe in clean power. I drop a RFI/EMI filter ($6 at the local store) into every DIY project and notice a difference.

 There are better things to spend your money on than cables. Maybe they sound 2% different if you listen for 3 hours straight. I'm not going to argue that. But run the cost/benefit analysis on power cords and see if you might be better off putting that money into more music, your IRA or even donating to charity.


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## No Deal

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dude, how do you explain me? I'm a hard-boiled atheist. Faith-based anything is anathema to me. Yet I know what I've heard from aftermarket power cords. They work.

 How is this different from faith? It can be tested and experienced by anyone (including you). No, you can't command "God" to suddenly appear and fill your "soul", but you can simply and easily replace your existing stock power cord and replace it with a better-quality aftermarket cord and experience the difference.

 It's easily testable, unlike religion, which is so fake and false, it's adherents have to fall back on blind "faith" to support their ridiculous positions._

 

As a believer, this post went over the line for me. They say that people who do not believe in God will believe in anything. Maybe even in the power of an electrical cord.

*This thread has taken on an unintended direction. Will the moderator please close it. Thank you.*


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## Mher6

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *No Deal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They say that people who do not believe in God will believe in anything_

 

How is that logical by any means?


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## fran

Ah this thread is about to go OTT. There is a sticky up top about not discussing DBT etc. 

 Lets keep it on track.

 My 2c: i have tried different power cables and heard a difference. Do I think they make a difference - Yes. Would I spend $50 on one - No. I'd make one with good cable and terminations.

 Don't think a new power cord would make a poor component into a good one though. It is just a tweak, thats all, kind of a 3-5% addition to the sound.


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## OverlordXenu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mher6* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If this were true, does it really matter? If we THINK we hear a difference, and it is a positive difference, we will enjoy the sound more, and therefore achieve our goal.

 I'm not sure how valid this is (as I have not read it yet), but VD has an article on their home page stating that their power cords have been tested to make a difference, SCIENTIFICALLY.

https://www.virtualdynamics.ca/content.php?id=254_

 

Oh yes, because something a cable-pusher posts on their website will totally not have bias! Not to mention on the second page, they state they've _edited_ the test so it is simpler!

 That is not acceptable.

 If Bose said they were then end-all be-all of audio based on tests they performed, would you believe them?

 Edit: So, you think it's ok to spend $13,000 on a power cable, when the sound will be no different than if you were to just use some generic $5 IEC power cable, as long as you think it improves the sound, even when every single test involving power cables has concluded they make no difference whatsoever? How is that logical? How is that even acceptable in modern societies today?

 I guess I'll go get some of those fuel additives, because I think they make my car have better gas millage. I won't speak out against those companies fraud, because I think they do something.


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## pompon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *No Deal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_=*This thread has taken on an unintended direction. Will the moderator please close it. Thank you.*_

 

Let peaple talk ... I try to have opinions on that .. a closed thread learn me nothing.


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## Scifiguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Power cords are like drinking straws..._

 

Exactly, and straws have physical properties which differentiate and change the interactions between their user them as well. To say that power cords make no difference is absolutely ridiculous and you might as well argue against the laws of physics or the elemental differentiation on the periodic table because that is essentially what you are trying to do. Perhaps to _your _ears they all sound the same, but there are scientifically measurable differences like it or not. Unless you purposely like presenting trivial flamebait, you might as well post in the headphone forum that iBuds are all you need because a headphone is a headphone and there are no differences between them regardless of price, material or design.


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## jaduffy007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *No Deal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there any evidence that tube amps benefit from the use of upgraded power cords? Has anyone been impressed by a particular cord?_

 

**** From YEARS of experience and comparing DOZENS of cable manufacturers products, power cords can make a dramatic difference. Are the prices shocking, if you haven't experienced the improvement? Yes, but there are some great values too. I can not recommend VH Audio highly enough. Awesome products at "reasonable" prices. Try out the Eichmann power strip too, if you use one that is.

VH Audio - AC Power Cables

 No...I don't work there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 And just for the record, some power cords and cables are absurdly priced imo.

 Harmonic Technology also makes great stuff, but more expensive. And up in $$ we go from there.

 Also...I'm not getting involved in these arguments about cables making or not making an *improvement*. When I managed Ultra high end audio shops until several years ago, I recommended to customers to spend 10-15% minimum of their system cost on cabling. I owned a $25000 two channel home system and I had $5000 invested in cables. Worth every penny. Call me a "believer" if you wish.

 Good luck!


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## viggen

Very interesting discussion. Microcosm of America. Zealots calling rationalists zealots.

 I agree that Eichmann cords are very good. I am not using it in the system right now, but I did in the majority of my previous systems with positives. For about the same $, I think the Eichmann blows the Harmonic Techs out of the water. But, I prefer holistic sound rather than pyrotechnics.


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