# How to equalize your headphones: advanced tutorial (in progress)



## Joe Bloggs

I had benefitted greatly from PiccoloNamek's "how to equalize your headphones tutorial".  Unfortunately, he seems to have left head-fi and the tutorial is getting out of date.  Since reading his tutorial I've learned some new tricks to streamline the equalization process to get results faster and more repeatably.  By repeatable I mean that I can have a target frequency response curve for my ears and achieve it with different headphones, so that different headphones end up having the same (to me) ideal frequency response and I can compare the actual sound of the headphones on a level ground, without the "sound signature" and "coloration" of the different phones getting in the way of the comparison.
  
 The methodology can be summed up as follows:
 1. Build up a "target frequency response curve", which is basically an Equal Loudness Contour at a fixed loudness level customized to your ears ("Why must we build the target frequency response curve EQ?")
 2. Run two VST parametric equalizers in series, one set to the target FR curve, and just tune the other EQ until all tones at all frequencies sound as loud to your ears, like so:
  



 From *right* to left: the sine tone generator program Sinegen playing back tones at different frequencies, the 1st EQ displaying my "target frequency response curve", and the 2nd EQ displaying the EQ curve for my Philips SHE3580.
  
 3. For music listening, remove the "target FR curve" EQ from the audio chain in VSTHost.
  
 This methodology was the basis for starting the highly successful Somic MH412 tour, in which these preproduction earphones (originally planned to sell for around 30USD) challenged various hi-end IEMs including the 999USD UERM.  So there should be something to it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Unlike PiccoloNamek I don't have the energy right now to write a complete guide from start to finish, so instead I'll write it step by step and write about the next step when someone replies to this thread saying that they've completed the first step, and link the resources I write back to this opening post.  I'll also elaborate on previous steps when someone comes back with questions or difficulties.
  
 So without further ado, the first step: (right now I'm afraid this is strictly PC-only, use a PC emulator or something if you're using a Mac?)
 However, see Equivalent to Virtual Audio Cable and VSTHost on Macs
  
 (copied from this thread; it's a bit brief, because I could see this step going totally smoothly, or like a can of worms depending on your computer setup.  Just write back if you have any questions or difficulties ok?)
  
 "First you need to install Virtual Audio Cable and VSTHost on your computer
http://software.muzychenko.net/eng/vac.htm
http://www.hermannseib.com/english/vsthost.htm
  
 (You can test the trial version of Virtual Audio Cable until you see that it works with VSTHost, but then you'll have to pay for the full version to make the "demo" voice go away.  Best $25 you'll ever spend on audio, though)
  
 And get it working as per this review http://www.head-fi.org/products/beyerdynamic-dt-770-pro-closed-studio-headphones-250-ohms/reviews/5928 (*but replace SAVIHost with VSTHost*) so that you can equalize system sounds using VST plugins.  And instead of his Marvel GEQ you need a parametric EQ like Electri-Q
http://www.aixcoustic.com/index.php/posihfopit_edition/30/0/
 which is what I use.  The paid version may be less buggy though:
http://www.aixcoustic.com/index.php/Electri-Q-FULL/13/0/
 (I know how to work around the bugs in the free version but it may be easier to work with the paid version)
  
 The Virtual Audio Cable+VSTHost combination is required to equalize sounds coming out of Sinegen, while VSTHost is required instead of SAVIHost because we will be running two equalizers in series.
  
 Come back to me when you've got this setup working so you can hear system sounds (such as stuff playing on youtube or spotify) being changed when you play with Electri-Q in VSTHost, or if you have problems setting this up and we'll discuss what to do from there."
  
 ----
 (My understanding is that some of you on this forum already have this set up the way I described it; if you write back to me here we can discuss the next steps?)
  
 Troubleshooting Virtual Audio Cable and VSTHost:
Audio stutters when run through VAC and VSTHost


----------



## Joe Bloggs

Answer to the top question nobody asks: audio stutters when streamed through Virtual Audio Cable and VSTHost
   
  There are a dozen settings in VAC and VSTHost that are claimed to be related to this: MS per int and Stream format limit in VAC, buffer size in VSTHost, priority levels for VSTHost... but none have had as great an effect on fixing things than this fix for me:
   



   
  These two audio-related services in windows need to be manually raised to high priority for audio to play smoothly through VAC and VSTHost on any but the most bare-bones system with nothing running in the background.
   
  Instructions for Windows Vista / 7
  1. Open Task Manager (Ctrl-Alt-Del)
  2. Go to the Processes tab
  3. At the bottom, there's a button with a shield icon labelled "Show processes from all users".  Click this button and okay any security warning that pops up.  *The svchost processes that host these two services will be hidden unless you take this step.*
  4. Go to the Services tab
  5. Click on the Name column to sort services by name, this helps you to find the two audio services easily.
  6. Right click on AudioEndpointBuilder, click "Go to Process"
  7. You will be taken to the Processes tab where a process called svchost.exe will be highlighted.
  8. You may see several identically named svchost.exe.  Right click the one *that is currently highlighted*, click "Set Priority", choose "High".  Confirm to change priority in the warning window that pops up.
  9. Go back to the Services tab and repeat steps 6-8 for AudioSrv to raise its service host priority to high as well.
   
  After I made these manual tweaks, VAC and VSTHost have been running as stutter-free as can be expected on my heavily loaded system.


----------



## Ghostfit

Couldn't get VAC/VSThost installed on my XP based machine in the office (No Admin privilege) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  ... will try again later on my Windows7 laptop at home.


----------



## Joe Bloggs

Look forward to hearing back from you


----------



## Joe Bloggs

Mac users rejoice!  You can equalize system sounds using AU plugins (Mac's equivalent to VST plugins) too!
   
  Using Soundflower (equivalent to Virtual Audio Cable) and AU Lab (equivalent to VSTHost)
http://www.dctrwatson.com/2011/06/os-x-system-equalizer/
   
  Now to find something equivalent to Sinegen: how about this?  I don't know if you can use it for free though
http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/12333/signalsuite
   
  And an AU parametric equalizer... *throws up hands on this one* but there's sure to be *something* available...
   
  I'd love to hear back from Mac users who decide to try this about their experiences...


----------



## Joe Bloggs

After VAC and VSTHost have been set up   
  It is time to EQ your first set of phones.
   
  Depending on what audio equipment you have and how satisfied you are with them, there are three ways of going about this.
   
  In order of preference:
   
  1.  You have a reference loudspeaker setup with substantially flat frequency response (and more importantly, good control of room mode problems either through room treatment or equalization): create your equal loudness contour from listening to your loudspeaker setup through Sinegen then apply to your headphones
  2.  You have a good headphone setup you are relatively satisfied with in overall signature but would like to improve its technical abilities (especially if you want smoother highs): listen to your headphones through Sinegen and smooth out its frequency response (especially in the treble), then create your equal loudness contour from your EQed headphones
  3.  You don't have any setup you are currently satisfied with: download a generic equal loudness contour, EQ your phones according to the contour, then tweak the sound to taste, then when you are satisfied with the sound, create your equal loudness contour from your EQed headphones <- link to instructions
   
  Although (1) is the most preferred method, I don't think anybody visiting this thread would have such a reference system at his disposal, so I'm going to write about (2) first.  If I'm wrong, write me here and I'll write about (1).


----------



## Joe Bloggs

2.  You have a good headphone setup you are relatively satisfied with in overall signature but would like to improve its technical abilities (especially if you want smoother highs)
   
  What I do here is pretty much what PiccoloNamek taught
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/413900/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-a-tutorial
   
  But in a much easier manner thanks to being able to apply EQ to Sinegen directly.
   
  I. Software setup
  1. Download and install Sinegen
  http://rbytes.net/software/sinegen-review/
   
  2. With VAC running, start VSTHost and configure it to have a basic In->EQ->Out signal path:



  (How to do this should have been covered in setting up VAC and VSTHost to equalize system sounds, but since nobody has asked any questions here yet they haven't been covered yet... if you got this far by yourself, you already know how to do this)
   
  3. Open Sinegen and select Line 1 (Virtual Audio Cable) as the output device:



   
  And we're ready to do some testing!


----------



## firev1

I'm would just like to ask, why must we build the target response curve EQ? Is it not enough to equalise with equal volume sine waves till they sound relatively the same volume(therefore using less filters)? I will be doing this over the weekend though.


----------



## Joe Bloggs

Quote: 





firev1 said:


> I'm would just like to ask, why must we build the target response curve EQ? Is it not enough to equalise with equal volume sine waves till they sound relatively the same volume(therefore using less filters)? I will be doing this over the weekend though.


 
   
  Because we do not perceive the same volume at different frequencies to be the same loudness:



  This is a graph of the relationship between actual volume (dB SPL, vertical axis of the graph) and perceived volume (phons, the red lines on the graph) at different frequencies (Hz, horizontal axis of graph).  A "phon" is defined as a sound "that sounds as loud as 1dB SPL at 1000Hz".  So, for example, looking at the red line labelled "60", you see that, averaged across many listeners, a 60dB SPL tone at 1000Hz (which by definition is 60 phons loud) sounds as loud as a 90dB SPL tone at 50Hz (so a 90dB tone at 50Hz is only 60 phons loud, not 90 phons).  What this means in practice is that if you take a pair of headphones with flat frequency response and tried to EQ it to sound as loud to the same volume tones at different frequencies, you can be expected to EQ up 50Hz by up to 30dB compared to 1000Hz when no EQ is required at all.
   
  So as I said in the this post, there are three ways to go about this, in order of preference:
  1.  You have a reference loudspeaker setup with substantially flat frequency response (and more importantly, good control of room mode problems either through room treatment or equalization): create your equal loudness contour from listening to your loudspeaker setup through Sinegen *(i.e. apply EQ until tones at different frequencies sound as loud, obtaining a curve that looks like one of the red contours above)* then apply to your headphones *(i.e. with the equal loudness contour EQ running, open a new EQ and EQ until tones at different frequencies played through the headphones sound as loud; then remove the equal loudness contour EQ.  The EQ that remains is an EQ that matches your headphones' frequency response to your loudspeakers' frequency response in your room (which needs to be flat in the first place for method 1 to work))*.
  2.  You have a good headphone setup you are relatively satisfied with in overall signature but would like to improve its technical abilities (especially if you want smoother highs): listen to your headphones through Sinegen and smooth out its frequency response (especially in the treble), then create your equal loudness contour from your EQed headphones (i.e. assume that your earphones are close enough to flat in the first place except for spikes corresponding to ear canal resonances; EQ these out (the goal while using Sinegen in this case then is not to make all frequencies sound as loud but only to smooth the treble frequency response (eliminate sudden jumps in loudness, let gentle changes of loudness with frequency remain).
  3.  You don't have any setup you are currently satisfied with: download a generic equal loudness contour, EQ your phones according to the contour, (i.e. assume for now that your ears are similar to the average of the many ears tested to create the ISO standard equal loudness contours) then tweak the sound to taste, then when you are satisfied with the sound, create your own equal loudness contour from your EQed headphones.


----------



## firev1

Quote: 





joe bloggs said:


> //


 
  Thanks a lot that post made everything seem clearer to me. Have to try and see what happens with my SRH-840s since it ain't quite as neutral as my powered monitors setup(I had it equalised to be sufficiently flat for my room).


----------



## Joe Bloggs

Quote: 





firev1 said:


> I'm would just like to ask, why must we build the target response curve EQ? Is it not enough to equalise with equal volume sine waves till they sound relatively the same volume(therefore using less filters)? I will be doing this over the weekend though.


 
   
  I'll be going on a business trip this weekend... brief instructions for you, since you say you have a calibrated speaker setup
   
  1. Set Sinegen to output 1000Hz at -10dB level to Virtual Audio Cable.  Don't hit the Power button yet!
  2. In VSTHost, load Electri-Q, click the "M" button to the lower right, set the Mode to Digital and Quality to Normal.
  3. Choose M->Skin->Gain Range->30dB
  4. Add a control point by clicking on the line, right click the point to change the band type to Basic->Gain only.  Then drag the point down to -20dB, the whole line should go down to -20dB.  (these steps are necessary to give you the digital headroom for the bass boost you need to create the equal loudness contour for the loudspeakers.
  5. Hit the Power button on Sinegen and change the volume by changing the windows master volume and any amp volume controls you have until you hear the 1000Hz tone at a loudness comparable to the loudness you usually listen to music at.  Make a mental note of this loudness and a written note of all the computer settings associated with this loudness (ie Sinegen Level setting (-10dB), Electri-Q curve at 1kHz (currently -20dB), whatever the system volume is, wherever the volume knob on your amp (to your speakers) is set)
  6. Now you can start going up and down the frequency scale in Sinegen and make note of the loudness changes.  You can start fiddling with Electri-Q immediately and hear the effect on the sine tones, but I prefer to leave Electri-Q alone first and adjust the Level and use the "+" (add record) and "-" (delete record) buttons to record the levels at different frequencies that correspond to the same loudness as -10dB at 1000Hz.  When I'm done I can "plot" the levels in Electri-Q and quickly make a rough equal loudness curve for the whole frequency range, like this:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/413900/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-a-tutorial/750#post_8208522
  7. Some basic controls in Electri-Q: click on curve to add point, right click on point to change band type (most useful are Basic->Peak, Low Shelf, High Shelf, and Specials->Butterworth->LS/HS 24/48dB (allows a sharper low / high shelf than possible with the basic low/high shelf), double-left-click on point to change parameters: Frequency and Gain are self-explanatory, BW affects how sharply a Peak filter boosts or cuts a frequency and how sharply a low / high shelf filter transitions from the unboosted to the boosted frequencies.  As mentioned in the link above, right click on a point also gives you an option to bypass the point.  This is useful to compare the effect with and without a filter, or to do the plotting technique I write about in that link.
  8. As you're adjusting the curve make sure to keep the curve centred on -20dB at 1kHz, otherwise your reference volume will change.  You can do this by moving the "Gain only" point up and down or adding a peak control point with wide bandwidth near 1kHz.
  9. When you're done making your equal loudness curve, check against the contours I posted above.  The changes in volume should be gradual.  If you see sharp peaks and dips, especially in the bass frequencies, those are probably resonance modes of your loudspeaker-room combination that you haven't silenced.  Smooth those over in your EQ curve.
  10. Click M->Presets->Export Preset to save your equal loudness curve.  (Remember to delete all the plot points first if you're using my plot method.  You can do this by switching to another preset then switching back (the up-down buttons at the bottom of Electri-Q next to the word "Presets".  Electri-Q doesn't remember bypassed points when you switch back to a preset.  A bug you can put to use in this case) Make a mental note of the rough shape of the curve, then switch to another preset and click M->Presets->Import Preset to load the preset you saved to a file.  Compare with the preset number currently holding the curve you just made to see if the curve saved and loaded properly.  There's a bug in the free edition where a preset may load with incorrect bandwidth for a point, causing the curve to change shape.  If this happens, find the point that has been loaded improperly, click it and press Delete on the keyboard to delete the point, and do M->->Presets->Import Preset again.  This should make the preset load properly.  If not, you may have to go back to the original Preset and export it again.
  11. The end goal is an equal loudness curve such that starting at 1000Hz -10dB on Sinegen, dragging the frequency slider up and down (leaving Level at -10dB) gives you a tone sweep of even volume when piped through Electri-Q in VSTHost.
   
  12. Add another Electri-Q and chain it after the current one, check that it is a flat line through 0dB, set Mode to digital and Quality to Normal, and switch output to your headphones.  Adjust the system volume / headphone amp volume until you hear 1kHz -10dB at the same loudness you heard through your speakers.
  13. Repeat steps 6-9 with your headphones, making your adjustments in the second EQ.  Make sure that 1kHz on the curve of the second equalizer stays at 0dB (again using a Gain only point or a wide bandwidth peak band to adjust the curve) as you tweak the curve.
  14. When you're done you should have a curve that matches your headphones' FR to the speakers' FR in the second EQ.  M->Presets->Export Preset to save the headphone compensation curve.  Again make sure that it saves and loads properly as detailed in step 10.
  15. To test out your new EQ with actual music, remove the equal loudness EQ (the first EQ) from the signal chain.  Or, play music through a player that can host VST plugins itself and have it bypass VAC and VSTHost while loaded with Electri-Q and your new headphone EQ preset.  This can be useful if your VAC->VSTHost output is a bit glitchy, as mine was.
  16. Tweak the EQ to taste with music.


----------



## Joe Bloggs

*Safety notice: DO NOT try to equalize the high frequencies beyond the point where your hearing drops off.*  A head-fier almost damaged his hearing with big blasts of supersonic frequencies he couldn't hear.


----------



## firev1

Thanks, for the details, I will go over it real soon. Results I will be posting here


----------



## MaciekN

Can you point out some high end headphones whose FR targets equal loudness curve?


----------



## Joe Bloggs

Um, that's not it.  Loudspeakers just need to target flat response curve.  When such speakers play sine tones you will hear them like an upside down equal loudness curve, i.e. low and high frequencies softer.
   
  Headphones don't need to target the equal loudness curve, they need to target a response such that the FR at the eardrum is similar to the FR at the eardrum from flat loudspeakers.  Which means either diffuse field or free field equalization.  But those are just generic curves and are a long way from the ideal FR for an individual.
   
  Especially the resonance peaks at high frequencies, those are different for everybody.


----------



## MaciekN

Then why do you target equal loudness curve in your equalization?


----------



## Joe Bloggs

You use two EQs--an equal loudness curve (which can either be derived from loudspeakers or a generic curve) for equalizing your ears and a headphone tuning EQ for equalizaing your phones.  Your ears roll off in the bass (hears bass sounds to be quieter) so the equal loudness equalizes up the bass to compensate.  Then you can tune the headphone tuning EQ just by ear, by making all the sine tones sound equal in loudness.  If you omit the equal loudness EQ your resulting EQ will have way too much bass.
   
  When you are done tuning the headphone tuning EQ, you *remove* the equal loudness EQ from the audio chain and have just the headphone tuning EQ in the chain for playback.


----------



## Alec246

Got everything setup! Waiting for the tutorial for using the basic model for human hearing. I don't have a very good headphone for trusting it as reference! I hope I can make it as flat as possible using your tutorial


----------



## Joe Bloggs

3. You don't have any setup you are currently satisfied with: download a generic equal loudness contour, EQ your phones according to the contour, then tweak the sound to taste, then when you are satisfied with the sound, create your equal loudness contour from your EQed headphones
   
  Instructions:
   
  http://www.mediafire.com/?rzzryhe139ivef1
   
  Download this equal loudness curve and load it in a first Electri-Q EQ in VSTHost
  Click M->Skin->Gain Range select 30dB to view the whole curve.
  (You probably need to load the EQ file twice for it to load properly)
   
  Then open a 2nd Electri-Q EQ after it like this



  (The curve from the equal loudness EQ file should look like the curve in the middle, except the frequencies below 50Hz have been tuned down below the 0dB line to prevent clipping.  The other EQ should be flat to start with.
   
  Then follow the following steps
  1. Open Sinegen and set it to output to Line 1 (Virtual Audio Cable), the frequency to 1kHz and the level to -10dB.  Turn the windows master volume control and the volume knob on any amp you have way down for safety.
  2. In VSTHost, click the "M" button to the lower right (on the blank EQ), set the Mode to Digital and Quality to Normal.
  3. Hit the Power button on Sinegen and change the volume by changing the windows master volume and any amp volume controls you have until you hear the 1000Hz tone at a loudness comparable to the loudness you usually listen to music at.  Make a mental note of this loudness and a written note of all the computer settings associated with this loudness (ie Sinegen Level setting (-10dB), Electri-Q curve at 1kHz (currently -20dB), whatever the system volume is, wherever the volume knob on your amp (to your speakers) is set)
  4. Move the frequency slider up and down (careful to avoid over-loud high frequencies, lower the Level if it's too loud) and check that the sine tones you hear are "pure" and that you don't hear "aliasing" between 10kHz and 20kHz (ie you should hear the pitch going higher and higher and then fading out; aliasing is where you hear a treble tone (still high but much lower than 10kHz) sweeping back and forth as you push the slider up from 10 to 20kHz).  If you have problems with this step report back to me and we need to troubleshoot sound settings.
  5. If step 4 is ok, you can now start going up and down the frequency scale in Sinegen and make note of the loudness changes.  Go back to 1kHz at the reference volume you noted in step 3.  You can start fiddling with Electri-Q (on the blank EQ setting) immediately and hear the effect on the sine tones, but I prefer to leave Electri-Q alone first and adjust the Level and use the "+" (add record) and "-" (delete record) buttons to record the levels at different frequencies that correspond to the same loudness as -10dB at 1000Hz.  When I'm done I can "plot" the levels in Electri-Q and quickly make a rough equal loudness curve for the whole frequency range, like this:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/413900/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-a-tutorial/750#post_8208522
   
  You should only EQ down to 50Hz, as the equal loudness curve has been shaved off below 50Hz.  If you want, you can equalize below 50Hz using this equal loudness curve
  http://www.mediafire.com/?7b9olaa40qk4lfh
  but it is hard to avoid clipping with this curve, not to mention that your headphones may be physically unable to produce a loud enough tone at those frequencies.
   
*Safety notice: DO NOT try to equalize the high frequencies beyond the point where your hearing drops off.*  A head-fier almost damaged his hearing with big blasts of supersonic frequencies he couldn't hear.
   
  6. Some basic controls in Electri-Q: click on curve to add point, right click on point to change band type (most useful are Basic->Peak, Low Shelf, High Shelf, and Specials->Butterworth->LS/HS 24/48dB (allows a sharper low / high shelf than possible with the basic low/high shelf), double-left-click on point to change parameters: Frequency and Gain are self-explanatory, BW affects how sharply a Peak filter boosts or cuts a frequency and how sharply a low / high shelf filter transitions from the unboosted to the boosted frequencies.  As mentioned in the link above, right click on a point also gives you an option to bypass the point.  This is useful to compare the effect with and without a filter, or to do the plotting technique I write about in that link.
  7. As you're adjusting the curve make sure to keep the curve centred on -20dB at 1kHz, otherwise your reference volume will change.  You can do this by moving the "Gain only" point up and down or adding a peak control point with wide bandwidth near 1kHz.
  8. Click M->Presets->Export Preset to save your equal loudness curve.  (Remember to delete all the plot points first if you're using my plot method.  You can do this by switching to another preset then switching back (the up-down buttons at the bottom of Electri-Q next to the word "Presets".  Electri-Q doesn't remember bypassed points when you switch back to a preset.  A bug you can put to use in this case) Make a mental note of the rough shape of the curve, then switch to another preset and click M->Presets->Import Preset to load the preset you saved to a file.  Compare with the preset number currently holding the curve you just made to see if the curve saved and loaded properly.  There's a bug in the free edition where a preset may load with incorrect bandwidth for a point, causing the curve to change shape.  If this happens, find the point that has been loaded improperly, click it and press Delete on the keyboard to delete the point, and do M->->Presets->Import Preset again.  This should make the preset load properly.  If not, you may have to go back to the original Preset and export it again.  *This is your new headphone EQ preset.*
  9. To test out your new EQ with actual music, *remove the equal loudness EQ* (the first EQ) from the signal chain.  Or, play music through a player that can host VST plugins itself and have it bypass VAC and VSTHost while loaded with Electri-Q and your new headphone EQ preset.  This can be useful if your VAC->VSTHost output is a bit glitchy, as mine was.
  10. Tweak the EQ to taste with music.


----------



## Alec246

Thank you, I just tried doing that, much better than just listening to Pink Noise.
   
  Now I have another Challenge. Match the EQ curve of my Plot Points, it's almost impossible, wow! I guess I won't do them every 500Hz anymore!


----------



## Joe Bloggs

... what phones are you doing this with?  It's better to start off with IEMs because those tend to have a smoother FR curve.


----------



## Alec246

I have a Bose IE2, is that good enough?


----------



## Joe Bloggs

Sure they are. As long as you're at it why not finish EQing the phones you've started on though (which are...?)


----------



## Alec246

I have a Sony MDR-XD400 and I just bought a Corsair Vengeance 1300 Headset, not for music listening, but for using with my friends on Skype, and it has a good quality audio, so I was trying to EQ it the best way possible to use it for music too.
   
  The second method of using VAC and VSTHost is amazing, you can change the EQ on the fly, I just have to learn how to shape Electri-Q curve to match the needs of the headphone, it's like 8000 0db then 8500 -5db 9000 -2.5db 9500 -2.7db 10000 -1db 10500 -7db
   
  Like you said, if you change one point to match the EQ, all the curve gets changes and all your modifications are messed up


----------



## Joe Bloggs

You have double clicked on a point and changed the BW to make the width of the peaks and dips fit the plot better haven't you?


----------



## Joe Bloggs

I corrected a minor mistake in the guide for you, which resulted in removing step 3 from the previous version for a total of 10 steps.
   
  BTW, it's more important to find the centre frequency of a peak or dip than to have lots and lots of plot points.  If you're experienced, after locating the frequency of the peak or dip by sweeping through frequencies in Sinegen you can shape the EQ to remove the peak / dip quickly by a single point with the appropriate bandwidth and maybe one or two points beside it to shape the frequencies around it somewhat, like the demo graph here at the end of the graph plotting tutorial post



  I.e. the points at 5.4kHz, 8.1kHz and 12kHz (approx.) were set with appropriate bandwidth to give the right sharpness to the dips, then the points at 6.7kHz and 10kHz (approx) were added to adjust the height of the curve between those dips.  Those points had a wider bandwidth.


----------



## Alec246

That's much smarter than what I was trying to do! I'm gonna try this today again with this new technique and I will let you know  Gonna try for my IEM and also my other 2 headsets, although the Pink Noise can make your ears get tired really fast


----------



## Joe Bloggs

You don't need to use pink noise anymore right?


----------



## kalston

I'm struggling to get stutter/pop free audio with VAC+VSThost when my PC is really busy (it's a very fast PC so it's not actually a performance issue). Other than that it works great and I'm glad I bought it. I've been messing around with buffer sizes and process priorities and got some success but I still can't say it's flawless


----------



## Joe Bloggs

Have you tried elevating the priorities of the Windows audio services as described here?
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/615417/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-advanced-tutorial-in-progress#post_8478930
  
  I don't know what you're using it for but I'm just glad I can use it for watching movies. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (I can use Electri-Q directly in foobar2000 so I don't need VAC for listening to music.)  If I were playing games or stuff like that I'd probably disable VAC or have the game output directly to the output sound device.


----------



## kalston

I'm trying to use it for games (I don't actually use VSThost to equalize but to do some post-processing, more specifically Isone & Isone Surround which both simulate speakers amazingly well), but even for video playback it's not too good yet (when watching a blu-ray I still get pops). I've tried messing around with priorities but maybe not enough (yet). I don't actually need it for video/audio playback as I use JRiver MC17, but I'd love to get it working properly with games as it does make some of them sound absolutely jaw-dropping compared to raw stereo or Dolby Headphones.


----------



## AstralStorm

FYI, there's a new standalone VST host about, called LiveProfessor. It has some issues with UI of Electri-Q, however it's better at handling ASIO it seems and has far fewer crashers than VSTHost.
   
  However, it will not be free once out of beta - but neither is VAC.
   
  Another recommendation would be to play sine waves at -6 dB or so to have some digital control headroom. Not recommended with 16-bit or otherwise noisy sources.
  If you already have it, Foobar2000 has a good tone generator which can be used instead of SineGen.
   
  I use the old and tested "many sines" technique without equal loudness curve and dual eq stuff.
  Just tuning with many sines (or a sweep) until the spectrum sounds equally loud at all frequencies.
  I do not remember all of it, but the tone generator had many tunables. Basic usage:
  File->Add location...
  Type in: tone://frequency for infinite length
  tone://frequency,length for finite length
  Enjoy your playlist of tones.
   
  Applying inverse equal loudness curve just makes most music sound horrible and doesn't match any speaker or live setup I've heard other than cheap computer speakers, headphones and unsealed IEMs. Clearly it's wrong then - and this is what you'll be doing...


----------



## Joe Bloggs

Quote:  





> Applying inverse equal loudness curve just makes most music sound horrible and doesn't match any speaker or live setup I've heard other than cheap computer speakers, headphones and unsealed IEMs. Clearly it's wrong then - and this is what you'll be doing...


 
   
  We've had this discussion before--equal loudness curves are different for individuals.  Either the curve is a bad fit for you or you're playing the sines at ear-splitting volumes such that the equal loudness curve mostly flattens out.


----------



## AstralStorm

No way I'm playing them that loud - the result is normal "radio" talk loudness, which would place it around 30-40 phons.[
  (Funny thing: some radio stations seem to use cardioid microphones at too close distances, causing a minor bass boost on voice.)
   
  Perhaps I'm perceiving equal "loudness" differently? Doesn't look like, have a link to the equalized IEMs (SE-5) near-ATH:

  I do perceive bass stronger than usual ATH by some 10 dB if the tympanometry (with excess precision: 50 Hz, 100, 500, 1000, 5k and 10 kHz) is to be trusted. I bet it is, since the results agreed with audiometry and couldn't be choked down to any ailment - the responses were all normal, just sensitivities differed. Otoacoustic emission tests were also all fine.
  (This suite of tests would've costed a pretty penny if I weren't friends with the audiologist.)
   
  Also, I've had to slightly fix the equalization since, but less than 3 dB max.
  Just for pun: I'm what you could actually call... a basshead! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  (Or rather, someone who can appreciate distortion-free bass some more. Audiometry was normal at 40 phon, within error bars, so there you go.)
   
  It'd be fun to use constant stimulus method instead of the adaptive one I did using that website. Would be more precise.
   
  Oh, a warning: if you're using BS2b (Bauer Stereophonic to Binaural) as a crossfeed mind that it attenuates high frequencies. (feed frequency is important here)
  As I've ran that measurement with IEMs equalized for BS2b, this shouldn't be an issue. But if you want to chain BS2b, make sure you equalize with it on, otherwise you'll end up with dark sound. Other virtualizers may be different in this regard.
   
  Bah, I can't get this bs2b correction straight.
   
  By measurement, it goes 3 dB, BW=2.54, normal high shelf. That'd be 3 dB/oct Bessel. (Default electri-q shelf is 6 dB/oct Bessel.)
  So feel free to put that as the compensation.
   
  However, this doesn't match with normal music, as crossfeed is a highly nonlinear effect in low frequencies. Approximately gives a 3 dB low frequency cut. Seems it ends up with a comb-like effect in addition to that.
   
  Final edit: confirmed, it adds a -3 dB comb that's in period of chosen knee frequency. Just reproducing that comb filter gives about 75% of bs2b soundstaging change, but not all of it.


----------



## AstralStorm

In case anyone is curious, the almost exact fix for BS2b effect. Note that this likely will mess up pure mono signals.
   
  Weirdness all around. I'd like some math master to explain this to me, but this is probably not the right forum for it. PM if you know the answer or want the eq file.
  (For 1908 Hz knee.)
   

   
  Guess I'll need a better crossfeed or will have to resurrect the analog one. (tricky!)
   
  The answer: http://gilmore2.chem.northwestern.edu/projects/meier_prj.htm
  Hello nasty math. So, technically it's possible to decomb the crossfeed...
   
  Never mind, it seems that BS2b doesn't have any comb effect, unlike e.g. Head-Fit. However, it does either destroy bass reverb or doesn't crossfeed enough.
   
  Head-Fit at least doesn't destroy bass and its mild comb effect can be equalized out. It's not aggressive enough in centering subbass though, giving slightly weird effects with very low frequencies.
   
  Also, I've retooled my setup to be ~50% quieter (near 35 phon instead of ~45, you have been right about being set too loud), gives better soundstaging with Head-Fit for some reason. (despite linear response being similar and compensated)


----------



## firev1

I finally got to it and I'm still fine tuning as somehow I'm getting it a little wrong but my 840s are getting more and more well balanced, will post up pics when I'm done


----------



## Mama70

Quote: 





joe bloggs said:


> Answer to the top question nobody asks: audio stutters when streamed through Virtual Audio Cable and VSTHost
> 
> There are a dozen settings in VAC and VSTHost that are claimed to be related to this: MS per int and Stream format limit in VAC, buffer size in VSTHost, priority levels for VSTHost... but none have had as great an effect on fixing things than this fix for me:
> 
> ...


 
   
  Some observations about these services:
  Both Svchost processes serve also other services. You can list the services with command
  tasklist /SVC /FI "IMAGENAME eq svchost.exe"
   
  My list is:
  Image Name                     PID Services
 ========================= ======== ============================================
 svchost.exe                   1204 DcomLaunch, PlugPlay, Power
 svchost.exe                   1284 RpcEptMapper, RpcSs
 svchost.exe                   1432 AudioSrv, Dhcp, eventlog,
                                    HomeGroupProvider, lmhosts, wscsvc
 svchost.exe                   1476 AudioEndpointBuilder, CscService, hidserv,
                                    HomeGroupListener, Netman, PcaSvc, TrkWks,
                                    UmRdpService, UxSms, wudfsvc
 svchost.exe                   1504 AeLookupSvc, Appinfo, BITS, Browser,
                                    CertPropSvc, gpsvc, IKEEXT, iphlpsvc,
                                    LanmanServer, MMCSS, ProfSvc, RasMan,
                                    RemoteAccess, Schedule, SENS, SessionEnv,
                                    SharedAccess, ShellHWDetection, Themes,
                                    Winmgmt, wuauserv
 svchost.exe                   1720 EventSystem, fdPHost, netprofm, nsi,
                                    SstpSvc, WdiServiceHost, WebClient
 svchost.exe                   1848 CryptSvc, Dnscache, LanmanWorkstation,
                                    NlaSvc, TapiSrv, TermService
 svchost.exe                   2052 BFE, DPS, MpsSvc
 svchost.exe                   2208 stisvc
 svchost.exe                   4284 PolicyAgent
 svchost.exe                   4444 FDResPub, FontCache, SSDPSRV, upnphost
 svchost.exe                   6992 p2pimsvc, p2psvc, PNRPsvc
  
  When you change the priority, you have to change it always after reboot. When you change the priority, you are changing it for all the services in the same process.
  The services are configured in Registry key HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Svchost
  If I read the registry right, it might be possible just to create new Scvhost processes just for these audio services.
   
  Key:LocalServiceNetworkRestricted
  Value:
  DHCP
 eventlog
 AudioSrv
 BthHFSrv
 LmHosts
 wscsvc
 homegroupprovider
 WPCSvc
  
  Key:LocalSystemNetworkRestricted
  UxSms
 WdiSystemHost
 Netman
 trkwks
 AudioEndpointBuilder
 WUDFSvc
 IPBusEnum
 hidserv
 dot3svc
 irmon
 sysmain
 PcaSvc
 homegrouplistener
 WPDBusEnum
 wlansvc
 TabletInputService
 CscService
 UmRdpService
  
  and there's sub keys for both of these with additional options.
  It might be possible just to make duplicate copies of these and isolate audio services to those.
  But I don't know what happens when I get updates for Microsoft if they assume the services are not modified. That might mess my system.
  More info:
  http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314056
   
  It might be possible to try to automate this priority change:
  - list tasks to spool file
  - grep with the audio services, get pid
  - change priority (somehow) with pid.
  And the add this to boot.


----------



## AstralStorm

Here's a new initial equalization result for Brainwavz B2 with Comply P tips. Very smooth, but bit bandlimited. Can't have everything just with TWFK. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   

   
  Ok, Comply P are wrong tips for them, cause lowpass and bass distortion.
   
  Comply T100 works far, far better with detail, but is less linear. Here's the graph:

   
  Subbass still needs more boost, but it starts to distort. The sound is extremely detailed.
  The IEM is not sibilant without the equalization - which proves my theory that it's resonance and not frequency response causing this effect.


----------



## Vitor Machado

Since you're going the DSP way, you should also try Dolby Headphones (_dolbyhph.dll_ not included. You can find it on PowerDVD or any other software using Dolby Headphones. It's not included because it's proprietary).
   
  It's very tricky to set-up in a way that doesn't sound like the singer is in a tin can 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (or too bassy), but when you do, it sounds great!
  If I close my eyes, it really does sound like the music is in front of me. I've never used a crossfeed plug-in that managed to do that so well (but I'll give an honorable mention to xnor's crossfeed plug-in).
   
  Here are my settings for the HD555 (Channel mixer is used to create the multi-channel signal for Dolby Headphones):

_the other tabs are default_
  Different headphones will probably need different settings on the _Upmix_ tab.


----------



## Joe Bloggs

Quote: 





astralstorm said:


> Here's a new initial equalization result for Brainwavz B2 with Comply P tips. Very smooth, but bit bandlimited. Can't have everything just with TWFK.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Or you're not listening to songs that trigger sibilance in the particular boosted frequencies of the B2?
   
  After a long time exploring various plugins I settled on ReaFIR as the best plugin for de-essing.
  http://wiki.cockos.com/wiki/index.php/ReaFIR
   
  It has a very detailed realtime spectrum analyzer so you can see exactly which frequencies are spiking with a particular recording that has sibilance--it's different for every recording, very eye-opening.  Then using the compressor mode at 100:1 compression just drag the points until it just limits the particular sibilant frequencies below the level of the sudden spikes and you've completely removed sibilance without affecting the rest of the recording.  No need for the "reduce artifacts" setting either.


----------



## AstralStorm

Nah, I've checked with everything I had. It's so generally bright that the sibilance doesn't stand out.
  It's quite different from VSonic GR07 sibilance, sounds much more like a relatively high wide-band presence boost rather than some resonance...
  It does accentuate sharp "c"/"tsk" phoneme. Not other plosives, "s" or "shh". This suggests resonance at much higher frequency.
   
  Similar IEM - AKG K3003? http://en.goldenears.net/index.php?mid=GR_Earphones&document_srl=12318


----------



## AstralStorm

Quote: 





joe bloggs said:


> Says the only guy in the EQ thread that EQs his subbass up 10+dB for all his phones even after being introduced to equal loudness contours


 
   
  Fix your trolling gear. 10 dB is nothing next to the +40 to 50 dB of the equal loudness contour. See, it's pretty hard to tune a device to reproduce extreme subbass correctly.
  Why do the resulting corrections look nothing like an equal loudness curve? Because they're not it at all.
   
  Dynamic driver IEM would need some huge displacement to move enough air. Bass reflex (vent) helps, but is still not enough. You could try simulating it via an acoustic lowpass - tiny nozzle - in a multi-driver setup. Or you could attempt the use of a driver with large Qts either completely open back or with special sound absorbing material. (FutureSonic Ear Monitor?)
  BA IEMs have it harder, With a right specialized balanced armature you could reproduce it perfectly - nobody I know of has done so yet it seems. (Even SE-5 extra bass armature starts to distort, but at least it can reach the right volume unlike most others where I'd rather not try since it could destroy the driver.)
   
  As to the high rolloff/cutoff, well, you need something seriously precise and light to reproduce frequencies that high. A score of IEMs manages to do that already.
   
  Hey, even most speakers roll off < 35 Hz.
  Here's an example: http://www.linkwitzlab.com/woofer3.htm and yet another, of a specialized subwoofer: http://www.linkwitzlab.com/thor_splmax.htm
  Guess why prof. Linkwitz "invented" the correction circuit - you can actually sometimes compensate for this behavior without introducing too much distortion. Obviously only if it's caused by mechanical dampening (in dynamic drivers) and not excursion limitations. (which is the case in BA)
  http://www.linkwitzlab.com/Removed%20pages/x-filters.htm#9
   
  Technically, the perfect driver would be a very light moving armature of large size or perhaps very light and stiff large orthodynamic.
  (electrostatics also have major displacement limitations due to voltage required increasing with square root and there's only so much you can do against arcing)
  Of course it won't fix decay issues. Many BA actually sound closer to sawtooth wave than sine when given one at low frequencies.


----------



## Joe Bloggs

Quote: 





astralstorm said:


> Fix your trolling gear. 10 dB is nothing next to the +40 to 50 dB of the equal loudness contour. See, it's pretty hard to tune a device to reproduce extreme subbass correctly.
> Why do the resulting corrections look nothing like an equal loudness curve? Because they're not it at all.


 
   
  My point wasn't that you're ignoring equal loudness (though your graphs do look a lot like an equal loudness curve to me, modulo some specific ear canal resonances)
   
  My point was that your EQs' bass response is highly atypical and flies in the face of your statement that people all perceive bass in pretty much the same way
  "low frequencies (barring subbass, < 80 Hz perhaps, which is heavily seal-dependent) match in almost all listeners"
  Your qualifier about subbass doesn't hold much water unless you want to say that you have a bad seal with all your phones.
   
  Nor do measurements agree with your bass boost:



   
  The FR agrees with your treble boost (which you say is highly listener dependent) but not your bass boost (which you say should be universal): there's less than a 5dB dip from 100Hz to 20Hz.  And this is not atypical of IEMs either.


----------



## AstralStorm

The red graph actually agrees perfectly. There's a - 6 dB at 20 Hz and should be +6 dB for standard subbass compensation.
  (According to Golden Ears at least. I'm inclined to agree with them.)
  Great thanks for the graph, where is it from?
   
  Note that I'm not playing music at 94 dB SPL, but rather somewhere around 40 dB SPL.
  Weird that they measure it with that much pressure, but I suppose their measurement system takes that into account.
   
  Here's a new correction, with Comply P Slim (not P as before, I made a mistake then).
  Found a pair, they work better than T100 - make for smoother equalization and bit better isolation, subbass as well as comfort.
  I actually haven't even looked at those graphs when making it.

   
  Let's paint the approximate shape of the correction on top of that graph. Please excuse the lousy painting skill.

  This matches the Diffuse Field (DF) curve very well...
  http://www.head-acoustics.de/downloads/eng/application_notes/Equalization_brochure.pdf


----------



## xnor

Quote: 





astralstorm said:


> This matches the Diffuse Field (DF) curve very well...
> http://www.head-acoustics.de/downloads/eng/application_notes/Equalization_brochure.pdf


 
   
  The graph that was posted is already DF equalized. With the curve above you now have 2x DF equalization - the big dip should be flat. You should boost around 3 kHz.


----------



## AstralStorm

This is HRTF, it's personalized, the equalization is tuned to sound equally loud at all frequencies. There's nothing closer to linear to my ears - this might not hold true for average ears (DF is derived from those) or your ears.
   
  I've tuned the eq since to be a bit more accurate to flat sounding in the highest end and painted it better, and it looks like:

   
  Now you know why I found VSonic GR07 sibilant. (also, that has some extra resonances)


----------



## xnor

But equal loudness at all frequencies is not what calibrated speakers sound like. For example your pinna boosts frequencies around 3 kHz. You don't equalize speakers for that, instead they produce a flat FR and what arrives your ear is a peak at 3 kHz. Especially in-ears don't care about your pinna at all so you have to have that peak in the headphones. That's why we have FF/DF-equalization in the first place.
   
  Just take a look at the ER-4S here (DF-equalized):

   
  Without DF-equalization:


----------



## AstralStorm

High fidelity speaker response is nearly linear, as in equally loud at all frequencies as heard by myself (or anyone else really including measurement microphones) - that's the ideal often not possible to achieve.
  Obviously, you need a very well matched/prepared room to come close to that as well as excellent speakers.
  Live performance (or a very good recording of such) is the actual reference, not any brand of speakers.
   
  Headphone equalization with sine tones is more or less equivalent to applying your own 0 degree HRTF measured in an anechoic chamber. (Independent-of-Direction or ID)
  Note that I'm talking about headphones/IEMs equalized to *sound* linear (sound equally loud at all frequencies) to *your own *ears. Not be linear - not reproduce all frequencies equally loud or sound linear to a measurement head, which likely doesn't match yours in one way or another.
   
  Adding a properly set up crossfeed on top of the above simulates the speaker-related inter-aural time difference, most relevant for low and mid frequencies.
  You can also add any kind of stereo convolution reverb to simulate a room response in high frequencies.
   
  --
  This approach is better in my opinion than attempting to encode a room-related response convolved by average HRTF (the definition of diffuse field). When the headphone is DF-equalized, adding a convolution reverb will cause the response to be doubly equalized. (since the microphone records a diffuse field)
   
  In simpler terms:
  1) equalize the IEM/headphone for binaural playback (ID equalization) = equally loud sine tones
  2) apply a convolution reverb to simulate spectral cues
  3) apply crossfeed to simulate ITD cues
   
  I'm also not sold on whether ID or DF is more accurate in case of IEMs. DF has been shown to be more accurate with headphones.
  Furthermore, the differences are restricted to the 500 Hz - 2.5 kHz range - ID equalized headphone/IEM has bit less loudness in that range.
  Source: http://www.head-acoustics.de/downloads/eng/application_notes/BinauralMeasurement_06_11e.pdf


----------



## xnor

Quote: 





astralstorm said:


> High fidelity speaker response is nearly linear, as in equally loud at all frequencies as heard by myself (or anyone else really including measurement microphones) - that's the ideal often not possible to achieve.


 
  Measurement microphones measure the frequency response in dB SPL or dBr referenced to a certain SPL and not loudness. Equal loudness is what a listener perceives and is measured in phons. Think about it this way: no matter if you measure speakers at 60, 80 or 100 dB SPL the frequency response ideally stays exactly the same. Equal loudness has nothing to do with it.
   
   
  Quote: 





> Headphone equalization with sine tones is more or less equivalent to applying your own 0 degree HRTF measured in an anechoic chamber. (Independent-of-Direction or ID)


 
  A measurement with an azimuth of 0° (speaker in front of the mic/head) in an anechoic chamber is a free sound field (FF) measurement.
   
  I don't see how this could be equivalent to headphone equalization. Speakers are usually set up in an equilateral triangle at +- 30°. Therefore you need a mix of FF+DF, which ID comes close I guess.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





> Note that I'm talking about headphones/IEMs equalized to *sound* linear (sound equally loud at all frequencies) to *your own *ears. Not be linear - not reproduce all frequencies equally loud or sound linear to a measurement head, which likely doesn't match yours in one way or another.
> [...]
> In simpler terms:
> 1) equalize the IEM/headphone for binaural playback (ID equalization) = equally loud sine tones


 
  Again, equal loudness has nothing to do with these equalizations, not even if you had your personal EQ curves. Phons just describe how you percieve the loudness of pure tones.


----------



## Kaffeemann

After installing VAC I don't get any sound at all.
   
  I set the output to Line 1(Virtual Audio Cable) in SineGen and foobar but ist doesn't work.
   
  Oh, one more question: is there a stand alone version of electri-q?


----------



## AstralStorm

Indeed, it attempts to provide equal loudness referenced in my case to loudness at 500 Hz (not 1 kHz as per definition of phon unit)
  Suprisingly though, the equalization produces very similar ATH as to the one measured by my audiologist some time back, so it doesn't compensate for equal loudness curve. Any reason why? My tone generator does not adjust for it.
   
  The equalization is made at a specific level (semi-calibrated using speech samples) and is usually reasonably stable with volume. The equalization software uses dBFS apparently which is directly related to dBV, but not necessarily to dB SPL. (especially in case of multi-driver designs)
   
  The result matches my old reference speakers reasonably well with exception of frequency response edges. (IEMs provide better subbass handling, but are rolled off at the highest end.)
  (Reference setup: JBL Control 5, +/- 3 dB 75 Hz - 20 kHz, in a relatively small reflection-dampened studio room, 2.5m distance, in sweet spot, 60 degree spread; room is 4 m x 3 m x 2.25 m)
   
  Is it possible that in a closed ear, equal loudness curves are different? This warrants some further study and equipment I no longer have access to.
  (specifically, calibrated in-ear microphones to check SPL)
   
  The equalization definitely doesn't audibly match any "loudness" preset and as you can see above in the B2 diagram, the result is quite close to flat when DF-equalized. The difference is probably due to personal HRTF and/or different playback levels.
   
  --
  Thanks for catching my mistake, anechoic chamber is FF indeed. ID is the plugged ear response, so that's what you will get instead with this equalization method and IEMs. With headphones it's likely that the resulting equalization is a compromise between DF and ID.


----------



## AstralStorm

Quote: 





kaffeemann said:


> After installing VAC I don't get any sound at all.
> 
> I set the output to Line 1(Virtual Audio Cable) in SineGen and foobar but ist doesn't work.
> 
> Oh, one more question: is there a stand alone version of electri-q?


 

 You need to route audio between VAC and the chosen soundcard, either using some VST host which allows separate input and output (I'd like one), ASIO4ALL with more than one device or the included Audio Repeater.
   
  Currently my setup uses 2 VAC cables set to the same clock, linked together with ASIO4ALL through LiveProfessor. The output from the second one is then routed to the card using the Audio Repeater.
   
  I'd love some alternative VST host which can use WASAPI exclusive or Kernel Streaming instead to get rid of the relatively lousy ASIO4ALL, which is not immune at all to even minor amounts of clock drift and thus requires the additional cable.


----------



## xnor

Quote: 





astralstorm said:


> Indeed, it attempts to provide equal loudness referenced in my case to loudness at 500 Hz (not 1 kHz as per definition of phon unit)
> Suprisingly though, the equalization produces very similar ATH as to the one measured by my audiologist some time back, so it doesn't compensate for equal loudness curve. Any reason why? My tone generator does not adjust for it.


 
  I have no idea what you're saying but if you're talking about the threshold of hearing - that's still psychoacoustics and has nothing to do with objective SPL measurements.
   
   
  Quote: 





> The equalization definitely doesn't audibly match any "loudness" preset and as you can see above in the B2 diagram, the result is quite close to flat when DF-equalized. The difference is probably due to personal HRTF and/or different playback levels.


 
  Ahm between 3 and 4 kHz you have a more than 15 dB dip, that's not flat.


----------



## Kaffeemann

@AstralStorm
   
  Thank you I think I got it right now. I am using Audio Repeater. Wave in is VAC and Wave out is my audio card.
   
  But here's the next problem: Although I integrated electri-q in VSThost it doesn't affect SineGen at all. It works perfectly for foobar though.


----------



## AstralStorm

Quote: 





xnor said:


> I have no idea what you're saying but if you're talking about the threshold of hearing - that's still psychoacoustics and has nothing to do with objective SPL measurements.
> 
> Ahm between 3 and 4 kHz you have a more than 15 dB dip, that's not flat.


 
   
  While 3-4k -15 dB is not flat, the resulting curve shape doesn't approximate an equal loudness contour.
  Note that I've cheated when drawing the graph and assumed linear dBFS <-> dB SPL relation. This should hold true for a wide SPL range.
  (Otherwise large amounts of harmonic distortion would be noted.)
   
  About the ATH, I meant the quick check using an ATH/hearing test tool mentioned somewhere earlier in the thread. This test for ATH resulted in a similar shape to ISO ATH curve.
   
  I'd require a calibrated in-ear probe microphone to attempt a direct mapping... unfortunately, I don't have access to this kind of hardware.
   
  Quote: 





kaffeemann said:


> @AstralStorm
> 
> Thank you I think I got it right now. I am using Audio Repeater. Wave in is VAC and Wave out is my audio card.
> 
> But here's the next problem: Although I integrated electri-q in VSThost it doesn't affect SineGen at all. It works perfectly for foobar though.


 
   
  In VSTHost, the DirectSound and MME options work pretty badly if at all, but if you want to try them out, you should pick VAC as input and soundcard as output device. Make sure to select a large enough buffer size - here, 768 samples worked with those outputs.
   
  Alternatively, install ASIO4ALL, select that as the IO device in VSTHost, then enable VAC In / Soundcard Out in its configuration.


----------



## Joe Bloggs

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *AstralStorm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
   
  If using VSTHost you just need one VAC cable.  Go to VSTHost->Devices->Wave... select MME: Line 1 (virtual audio cable) as input device and MME: loudspeaker (or something like that) as the output device.  Then put Electri-Q between the input and output in the VSTHost main window and link them up


----------



## keyro

hi guys very interesting thread, i have a pair  Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro-80 but i dont quite understand all that has been explained in the guide (yup i´m a newbi) so i´d like to know if anyone has done this to this pair of headphones could provide me with the final EQ so i can test the sound of it since iam really interested in listening how it sounds with the final result, thanks in advance guys


----------



## hollowkenshin

Okay, so if none of these methods work, how would we equalize the right way?
   
  Lets say we:
  1. Purchase a flat response in-ear microphone (e.g. http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-TFB-2)
  1. Insert them in your ear and then place your headphones over the top.
  3. Run pink noise through the headphones.
  4. Take the resulting eq-curve captured by the microphone and invert it.
  5. If desired, one could get some stereo impulses, room simulators or a crossfeed like xnor's to externalise the sound.
  (Now just if we could homebrew a headtracker...)
   
  Would this equalisation method be accurate?


----------



## xnor

You cannot just invert the FR captured by the mic. The response of a flat speaker is not flat at the eardrum. There are resonances like about +15 dB around 3 kHz etc.. So first you need this/your personal target curve.
  My crossfeed tries to keep the FR as flat as possible because most headphones are already DF-equalized, at least to some degree.


----------



## k00zk0

Just wanted to note that sinegen 2.5 has both of its mirrors 404'ing and the sinegen 2.1 from tucows has unavoidable malware attached. I have uploaded a legitimate sinegen 2.1 here:
   
  https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B6IxqGzcxDWTeGhycEdFeEdhZzg
   
  Unfortunately the first "how to equalize your headphones" thread still has not had the OP link changed from the tucows one. Shame on head-fi; sorry but I don't approve of you pointing thousands of people hitting that thread from Google to download malware. I noted it two weeks ago in that thread.


----------



## Armaegis

I found this EQ the other day and quite like it: http://www.rs-met.com/freebies.html
   
  I've never been able to get electri-Q to work on my computer, but the link above seems to work well for me. It also lets me individually tune L/R, which is nice as my ears are slightly different particularly in the treble.


----------



## humpty

Thanks for this guide. I really don't want to buy the program though, isn't there a way to do this within a vst sequencer like Ableton Live? As far as I can see you would just need a VST version of SineGen?


----------



## Joe Bloggs

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3871101 ...?
  Good thinking there bro!  With a VST signal generator you can do the two-pass EQ testing on any VST host without needing system sound loopback!


----------



## JohnSantana

So what is the purpose of EQ attenuation parameter ?

When I update my DENON audio app, the setting is set at -1.5 dB ?


----------



## daleb

I don't know how this happened, but downloading Virtual Audio Cable fixed my Dolby Advanced Audio that hasn't been able to turn on for months. I installed VAC, and instantly my sound changes and I have no idea why. I go and check and WOOOO! But then I realized that it messed up my volume controls. So I turned off the driver, and the Dolby fix stayed, but now the driver is just gone it seems. Oh well, doesn't seem I'll be able to do this now. At least I can do simple EQs for my whole system again!


----------



## Winged4Ever

And how about equalizing my headphones using Android and Neutron MP? I assume that the equalizer prepared using your advices on my PC with cheap sound card do not necessarily translate into good at any sort equalizer on my SGS provided with Wolfsons DAC.


----------



## kazaakas

I was wondering if the parametric EQ FX from Creatives drivers would work with this as well?
  Would be great to have it applied to all other audio as well.
  I'm trying to get it to sound as natural as possible with the treble but the sound seems to be congesting more easily than with Electri-Q..
   
  For those interested, this is the UI:
   

   
  I'm still in the learning phase with this as I still don't really get how one could equalize his gear well by just using pink noise. How should I have an idea of what pink noise should actually sound like when I've never heard it perfectly equalizer for my own gear and ears?


----------



## streetdragon

Quote: 





kazaakas said:


> I was wondering if the parametric EQ FX from Creatives drivers would work with this as well?
> Would be great to have it applied to all other audio as well.
> I'm trying to get it to sound as natural as possible with the treble but the sound seems to be congesting more easily than with Electri-Q..
> 
> ...


 
  Play around with the knobs, turn it up and down so you can calibrate your frequency sense.
 Then about the pink noise, it should be a noise that just sounds like everything, if you can hear any frequency that stands out from the rest (eg: whuushhh, sssssss, mmmm , for a lack of better words) you reduce that portion until it blends in with the background noise. It does take some time and experience though. (yes it does require lots and lots of trying, learning and retuning.)

 add on note: graphic eq is better for beginners since it's the most direct but still can produce good results when done correctly


----------



## kazaakas

Yeah I got back to ElectriQ to get a little more experience with EQing first, however I'm now draining 7.3k and 12.8k both by 8-9 decibels with pretty wide dips and I'm still experiencing a LOT of sibilance with some songs and with some it's gone. There's this one song (Sail Away To Avalon by Ayreon) that had unlistenable siblance for me which I just can't seem to drain out at all. The "s" sound in vocals is just unbearable, quite a shame because it's a song I really used to like before getting so nitpicky about sound


----------



## streetdragon

Quote: 





kazaakas said:


> Yeah I got back to ElectriQ to get a little more experience with EQing first, however I'm now draining 7.3k and 12.8k both by 8-9 decibels with pretty wide dips and I'm still experiencing a LOT of sibilance with some songs and with some it's gone. There's this one song (Sail Away To Avalon by Ayreon) that had unlistenable siblance for me which I just can't seem to drain out at all. The "s" sound in vocals is just unbearable, quite a shame because it's a song I really used to like before getting so nitpicky about sound


 
  Could it be the 10khz and the 5khz that is causing the remaining sibilance?


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





joe bloggs said:


> Mac users rejoice!  You can equalize system sounds using AU plugins (Mac's equivalent to VST plugins) too!
> 
> Using Soundflower (equivalent to Virtual Audio Cable) and AU Lab (equivalent to VSTHost)
> http://www.dctrwatson.com/2011/06/os-x-system-equalizer/
> ...


 
   
  I know this is old, but I recently setup my mac to use soundflower to take over my audio stream and route it to au labs apple parametric eq and out to my apogee duet interface.  Works great.  I don't see any performance degradation, and i can save eq settings for different earphones.  I haven't found a sinegen alternative though. :-/


----------



## Joe Bloggs

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3871101

You could put mda testone into your AU effects host in front of the equalizers and generate the test tones that way.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





joe bloggs said:


> http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3871101
> 
> You could put mda testone into your AU effects host in front of the equalizers and generate the test tones that way.


 
   
  Cool.  I'll try that.  I'm a bit confused on the loudness curve eq though.  I've been reading through the posts and I understand the basics, but how do you know what is truly flat?  I can base it off of speakers and generally accepted curves, but how will I be sure I'm making it flat for my ears?


----------



## Joe Bloggs

How do you find the sound of your etys? With etys I've always found them close enough to neutral that it's enough to add a bass boost and a cut filter around 7-10kHz targeting the resonance frequency caused by shallow insertion relative to the original Ear-Rapic(tm) insertion depth they were designed for--rather than going the whole nine yards building the sound off an equal loudness curve. In fact if the sound is good enough for you you may want to go the other way around and create your own equal loudness curve based on what you hear from the etys and use it to equalize other phones in your possession. I have over ear cans that I prefer to wear at home (more comfortable and better bass impact) that I equalized based on comparisons with the Ety mc5. Ironically I lost the etys right after completing the comparison so it's like I rented out the etys for the sole purpose of ripping off its sound LOL


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





joe bloggs said:


> How do you find the sound of your etys? With etys I've always found them close enough to neutral that it's enough to add a bass boost and a cut filter around 7-10kHz targeting the resonance frequency caused by shallow insertion relative to the original Ear-Rapic(tm) insertion depth they were designed for--rather than going the whole nine yards building the sound off an equal loudness curve. In fact if the sound is good enough for you you may want to go the other way around and create your own equal loudness curve based on what you hear from the etys and use it to equalize other phones in your possession. I have over ear cans that I prefer to wear at home (more comfortable and better bass impact) that I equalized based on comparisons with the Ety mc5. Ironically I lost the etys right after completing the comparison so it's like I rented out the etys for the sole purpose of ripping off its sound LOL


 
   
  Ha.  I love my ety.  I boost the sub bass and that's it.  I use the red knowles dampers which cut down the few small treble bumps perfectly.  so with just a sub bass eq they are very reference.  But my pfe112 have more peaky treble (although still great).  I just can't seem to narrow down the frequencies to make it ety like... :-o


----------



## Joe Bloggs

What would make you want to wear the pfe112 and have them sound like the etys though, instead of just wearing the etys?  Comfort?

Have you checked with a sine sweep to see that the red dampers are cutting away the resonance instead of just lowering all the treble frequencies?


----------



## luisdent

Comf





joe bloggs said:


> What would make you want to wear the pfe112 and have them sound like the etys though, instead of just wearing the etys?  Comfort?
> 
> Have you checked with a sine sweep to see that the red dampers are cutting away the resonance instead of just lowering all the treble frequencies?



Comfort, and theyre better for grab and go portable use without an amp


----------



## Schonen

Too much work. I just use the EQ built into foobar and when it sounds good to me I save a profile for each set of headphones I own. Simple.


----------



## luisdent

joe bloggs said:


> What would make you want to wear the pfe112 and have them sound like the etys though, instead of just wearing the etys?  Comfort?
> 
> Have you checked with a sine sweep to see that the red dampers are cutting away the resonance instead of just lowering all the treble frequencies?


Yes. They are reducing the 2-3khz area a bit and some others. Just a bit, but it really helps..


----------



## doublekbang

joe bloggs said:


> I'll be going on a business trip this weekend... brief instructions for you, since you say you have a calibrated speaker setup
> 
> 1. Set Sinegen to output 1000Hz at -10dB level to Virtual Audio Cable.  Don't hit the Power button yet!
> 2. In VSTHost, load Electri-Q, click the "M" button to the lower right, set the Mode to Digital and Quality to Normal.
> ...


 
 For some reason I can only get it to 15 and not 20. I must have not added a control point correctly or loaded the electri-Q correctly is what I'm thinking :|


----------



## Joe Bloggs

doublekbang said:


> For some reason I can only get it to 15 and not 20. I must have not added a control point correctly or loaded the electri-Q correctly is what I'm thinking :|




Wow. This thread shall forever be immortalized as one of my countless projects that never got finished 

Anyway, to answer your question: A single control point only goes down to -15dB. My bad  You can add another Gain control point to make the total gain -20dB.


----------



## doublekbang

joe bloggs said:


> Wow. This thread shall forever be immortalized as one of my countless projects that never got finished
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 So what I got so far is when I click the line it automatically adds 5 control points. I delete 4 to get one. Then the setting change to gain only, digital and 30 db. Then it goes down to 15. When I add some control points and mess around with the points a bit it becomes a jagged line. My question is is it meant to be a jagged line or there is a way to make the line completely straight as right I now seem to have to experiment with the control points and get a sort of straight line hoping for the best straight line possible


----------



## doublekbang

never mind I got it lol


----------



## doublekbang

joe bloggs said:


> Wow. This thread shall forever be immortalized as one of my countless projects that never got finished
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ok ok I do need to ask, regarding your 16 steps I'm more in the 2nd stage of "You have a good headphone setup you are relatively satisfied with in overall signature but would like to improve its technical abilities (especially if you want smoother highs): listen to your headphones through Sinegen and smooth out its frequency response (especially in the treble), then create your equal loudness contour from your EQed headphones"

 so I just wanted to ask is the dragging the point to -20db still applicable?

 Edit: Actually I'm using a mac, I was doing your method on a PC to get a feel on what I am supposed to do, now that I have understood a bit I am trying to transfer the principles I learned on the PC onto a Mac with Soundflower and AU Lab. I guess I am now stuck at the making equalise loudness like in post http://www.head-fi.org/t/413900/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-a-tutorial/750#post_8208522. Right now with using AU Lab and soundflower I am getting something like this http://postimg.org/image/tl8cxkbc5/

 As you can see in the bottom I make an example of how the Q function (that's what it's called in AU Lab) can be made wider. I was just wondering is it possible to get the true equal loudness curve like demonstrated in Electri-Q or is it ok to just leave like as it is. I would imagine if I leave it as it is at some frequencies in between it would get oddly uneven in terms of loudness :|


----------



## Joe Bloggs

doublekbang said:


> Ok ok I do need to ask, regarding your 16 steps I'm more in the 2nd stage of "You have a good headphone setup you are relatively satisfied with in overall signature but would like to improve its technical abilities (especially if you want smoother highs): listen to your headphones through Sinegen and smooth out its frequency response (especially in the treble), then create your equal loudness contour from your EQed headphones"
> 
> 
> so I just wanted to ask is the dragging the point to -20db still applicable?
> ...




I don't think I've ever finished that part of the guide 
The gist of what you want to do (when correcting headphones you are pretty satisfied with to start with) is to null any narrow peaks or nulls above 1kHz without greatly changing the overall balance of the phones or trying to make all frequencies sound equal. I would just note down about how many dBs louder or softer the narrow peaks and nulls sound than the surrounding frequencies, then experiment with the Q factor of the correcting filters for the smoothest correction.

Apart from that, I don't quite follow what your question is


----------



## jiiteepee

schonen said:


> Too much work. I just use the EQ built into foobar and when it sounds good to me I save a profile for each set of headphones I own. Simple.


 
  
 I kind of agree ... I just try cancel the frequency response "errors" of headphones/speakers using eq (save cancellation eq as a static preset) and then, if needed, eq by taste while listening.
  
 Previously I used this VSTHost-VAC-Electri-Q method as well but as being a complicated setup, I switched to EqualizerAPO + my own GUIs made for to control it. I also have added couple features to the GUIs for to prepare the cancellation preset (on upcoming version 0.40 it's possible to load a frequency response image for to prepare eq against it and then inverting the eq).


----------



## doublekbang

jiiteepee said:


> I kind of agree ... I just try cancel the frequency response "errors" of headphones/speakers using eq (save cancellation eq as a static preset) and then, if needed, eq by taste while listening.
> 
> Previously I used this VSTHost-VAC-Electri-Q method as well but as being a complicated setup, I switched to EqualizerAPO + my own GUIs made for to control it. I also have added couple features to the GUIs for to prepare the cancellation preset (on upcoming version 0.40 it's possible to load a frequency response image for to prepare eq against it and then inverting the eq).


 
 How did you cancel the frequency response 'errors' ?


----------



## streetdragon

doublekbang said:


> How did you cancel the frequency response 'errors' ?


 you can try with pink noise, any part that stands out you can reduce it until no partucular tone catches your attention.


----------



## doublekbang

streetdragon said:


> you can try with pink noise, any part that stands out you can reduce it until no partucular tone catches your attention.


 
 so right now I play pink noise in the background and then play sinegen and then play around with the frequencies in sinegen like normal but like you said reduce any frequency that catches my attention is that correct?


----------



## streetdragon

doublekbang said:


> so right now I play pink noise in the background and then play sinegen and then play around with the frequencies in sinegen like normal but like you said reduce any frequency that catches my attention is that correct?


 
 Well... I am not exactly sure what sinegen does but yeah other than that it's pretty much right.


----------



## jiiteepee

streetdragon said:


> Well...






 


You seem to have Senheiser HD558's in your Main rig  ...  If you have EqualizerAPO running, how this EQ sounds:


 


Channel: L R

Preamp: 0,00 dB

Filter : ON PEQ Fc 10 Hz Gain 8,76 dB BW Oct 2,318


Filter : ON PEQ Fc 198 Hz Gain -2,98 dB BW Oct 5,995


Filter : ON PEQ Fc 829 Hz Gain 2,02 dB BW Oct 1,441


Filter : ON PEQ Fc 1674 Hz Gain 3,13 dB BW Oct 0,930


Filter : ON PEQ Fc 3613 Hz Gain -1,99 dB BW Oct 0,930


Filter : ON PEQ Fc 5598 Hz Gain 3,43 dB BW Oct 0,964


Filter : ON PEQ Fc 9024 Hz Gain -6,45 dB BW Oct 0,500


Filter : ON PEQ Fc 12089 Hz Gain 16,38 dB BW Oct 0,694


Filter : ON PEQ Fc 16294 Hz Gain 3,44 dB BW Oct 0,307


 


You can save this to say as "pre-filt.txt" and include it in config.txt (add line Include: pre-filt.txt).


----------



## Joe Bloggs

May I ask where is your EqualizerAPO UI thingy thread? I don't see it in your signature...


----------



## jiiteepee

joe bloggs said:


> May I ask where is your EqualizerAPO UI thingy thread? I don't see it in your signature...


 
  
 Here is one thread you can start from ... http://www.head-fi.org/t/691762/10-band-multichannel-parametric-eq-gui-for-windows


----------



## viperman3

Just had a go at this tutorial.  All seems to work quite well, but I was getting lots of problem with the virtual audio cable drivers (stutter even with high priority settings on audio apps withing task manager)
  
 I opted to try *VB-CABLE Driver *from VB-Audio Virtual Cable web site (VBCABLEDriver_Pack42b.zip)
  
 Works great.


----------



## Sedoc94

By following this tutorial I will be able to play capture any audio output of Windows programs and make it run through the EQ before outputting it my headphone right?


----------



## lisagorbin

Do i need to read the original tutorial by piccolonamek or is this already a comlplete tutorial? thanks


----------



## 391647

So is the author still active? I can't seem to download Electri Q anywhere. Links on the main site are dead.


----------



## jiiteepee

renatar567 said:


> So is the author still active? I can't seem to download Electri Q anywhere. Links on the main site are dead.


 
  
 AIXcoustic Creations is history but, you probably still can find few download links for the free Electri-Q (posihfopit edition) through google search.
  
http://www.savioursofsoul.de/Christian/vst-plugins/eqs-filters/ (one of the developers)
http://sagamusix.de/en/vst-plugins/


----------



## 391647

jiiteepee said:


> AIXcoustic Creations is history but, you probably still can find few download links for the free Electri-Q (posihfopit edition) through google search.
> 
> http://www.savioursofsoul.de/Christian/vst-plugins/eqs-filters/ (one of the developers)
> http://sagamusix.de/en/vst-plugins/


 
 Thanks. I download a .dll. Can I just drop this in my Winamp folder to make it work? :/


----------



## jiiteepee

renatar567 said:


> Thanks. I download a .dll. Can I just drop this in my Winamp folder to make it work? :/


 
  
 I'm not sure if that's for Winamp but a VST .dll so you should use VST bridge plug-in for winamp to get it loaded. You probably can find the winamp plug-in as well by googing using 3 term search criteria:  electri-q winamp uploadgeneration


----------



## 391647

To be honest I have no idea what VST and VSt Bridge means.


----------



## jiiteepee

renatar567 said:


> To be honest I have no idea what VST and VSt Bridge means.


 
  
 VST bridge for winamp allows to use VST type effects in winamp. VST is widely used plug-in standard (mainly used on music production) .


----------



## MaciekN

I have equalized my Ms-1i to more or less flat descending line based on home measurements. I wanted to then add diffuse field EQ curve (based on this: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/harman-researchers-make-important-headway-understanding-headphone-response) but it sounded really rubbish and coloured, any ideas why so?


----------



## Joe Bloggs

maciekn said:


> I have equalized my Ms-1i to more or less flat descending line based on home measurements. I wanted to then add diffuse field EQ curve (based on this: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/harman-researchers-make-important-headway-understanding-headphone-response) but it sounded really rubbish and coloured, any ideas why so?




The diffuse field response shown there is, I believe, the measured in-ear response to an average of loudspeakers positioned around the head. Supposing you EQed your headphones to flat responding, what you need is a compensation curve that subtracts the in-ear response to flat FR headphones from the diffuse field response. I don't know where one would find such responses though.


----------



## MaciekN

I did the measurements with the headphones on my head but the mic was not inside my ear, it was just close, so I guess they would reflect the in-ear response.
  
 If I understand you correctly I should first use an inverse of the DF curve, and then EQ to flat sounding with sweeps? But in this case it would only work if a headphone was DF equalized in the first place, wouldn't it?
  
 I did similar thing with an IEM, I listened to log and linear sweeps to EQ it to flat sounding, then added the DF curve and the tonality is really nice now, so in this case it kinda worked.


----------



## higbvuyb

maciekn said:


> I did the measurements with the headphones on my head but the mic was not inside my ear, it was just close, so I guess they would reflect the in-ear response.
> 
> If I understand you correctly I should first use an inverse of the DF curve, and then EQ to flat sounding with sweeps? But in this case it would only work if a headphone was DF equalized in the first place, wouldn't it?
> 
> I did similar thing with an IEM, I listened to log and linear sweeps to EQ it to flat sounding, then added the DF curve and the tonality is really nice now, so in this case it kinda worked.


 
 If you're measuring at the EAM and not the eardrum, just EQ the response so it matches a blocked-meatus DF reference. Don't try to EQ it to flat because your ear does not have flat response.


----------



## wjellybelly

For some reason, I get an audio delay.  Like when I watch a video using VST Host and VAC, I click play and there is like a fraction of a second delay before the audio starts playing, and it really messes up the sync between the video and audio.  Anyone know how to fix this? Does it have to do with the wave import or wave output in VST? Thanks.


----------



## jiiteepee

wjellybelly said:


> For some reason, I get an audio delay.  Like when I watch a video using VST Host and VAC, I click play and there is like a fraction of a second delay before the audio starts playing, and it really messes up the sync between the video and audio.  Anyone know how to fix this? Does it have to do with the wave import or wave output in VST? Thanks.


 
  
 Are you using low latency ASIO drivers with VSTHost (native ASIO, asio4all, etc.) ? If you are then try by minimizing the ASIO buffer size (latency) and if possible, by adjusting I/O latency compensation buffers.
  
 (Maybe ReClock could be used for syncronization in some cases?)


----------



## davidsh

Has anyone done a thorough EQ of hd800? So far my curve looks like this:

 For now at least. Besides, why should one EQ out the resonant frequency in the ear canal, as it must occur at all times, headphones or not?


----------



## wjellybelly

For me, I just think it sounds a lot better with the EQ.  When I don't EQ headphones, I can hear hissing noises from the treble.  Sorry, don't own the hd 800s, so I don't know much about them.


----------



## castleofargh

thought I'd butt in. this tuto has been a great help for me(I also started with piccolo's tuto). but at first I got scared by the apparent amount of softwares and efforts needed. and I imagine that just like me, a lot of people gave up on trying because of this. or because one of the software was not free.
  
 I'm part of a cheapo IEM EQ challenge tour http://www.head-fi.org/t/726569/review-tour-somic-mh412-viper4android-the-put-up-or-shut-up-review-and-tour . and trying to do my own EQ to see if I can match Joe Bloggs work made me think about that topic and where I went since I first saw it.
 so if you mind reading something that will probably be a little long, I want to talk about the alternatives, how it's not as complicated as it appears, and why I do favor his technique(with whatever mean to achieve it) instead of other more straightforward EQing methods.
  
  
*the 3 ways talked about on this topic:*
I/ EQ with whatever you have(on your DAP, on your audio player software on the computer...)and just try to make it sound good.
 what we all did at some point and what led so many people into thinking that EQ was bad for sound. sometimes because that specific EQ software was really poor. but usually just because the user used too much of everything like a newbie he was, mistaking clipping with what the EQ can do.
  
  
  
II/ jiiteepee made something real nice and accessible( thanks a lot for making it a freeware). you can use it as your usual EQ (EQ by ear until it sounds as you wish), or rely on measurements to try and reverse the variations. it works pretty well, and it is not too hard to accomplish as you can compare shapes and values instead of using your ears. I believe it to be a great way to start in the EQ world if you're not very confident, as the graphs and practice bring a fair share of pedagogy about EQing. you will get out of it knowing yourself and your headphone better.
  
 I see one problem though:
 by following headroom's graphs or others, you follow what they measured, with what they picked as a compensation curve, and how much smoothing they decided upon. overall it can lead to something close to flat for the chosen compensation curve. but that's it.
 so if you hear flat with that compensation curve, great for you, you have found the perfect tool. but if your ears are different, then you'll just be making your headphone flat for the dummy head, not for yourself.
 the other problematic situation is if you don't actually wish for flat. you can always do the job for flat, and then add a few DB of bass or medium just like you love it, but you end up doing I/ with a closer to flat headphone. I believe that with experience this is still the best option, as you'll slowly learn what you like and know from experience how much DB this is for a given frequency. so in the long run, I do like this method. but the newbie to EQ might end up with a "flat" headphone not loving the sound, and not knowing how to get it better.
 and of course you can't really do much if you can't find a graph for your headphone.
  
  
III/ this is in my opinion where Joe Bloggs tuto has an interesting thing to it.
 what he's making you do is take something you like(flat or not), and try to get another headphone to sound just like it. so you never start from nothing, you actually have a listening reference. so you can estimate if you're close or not and if you should redo it.
 the second strong point of that method is that instead of trying to make your headphone flat by ear and deal with the result, he's making you do one exercise twice. on the model headphone/speaker, and the headphone you want to EQ. so you don't have to be good at making the EQ flat, you just have to be consistent on both attempts.
 you can be wrong by 15db on your equal loudness curve, it doesn't matter one bit. as long as you're wrong twice ^_^.  and that's the real value of that method in my eyes.
  
 the real problem of that method is that you do need a model sound. if you have no headphone with the signature you want(flat or something else), then you're screwed.
  
  
  
 so as you can see there isn't one perfect way and you need to pick the one for your needs.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
*now 4 dumb screenshots to show 4 ways to use Joe Bloggs method with different softwares:*
  
 FREE

 I call this the "barely better than nothing" equipment:
 here I'm using foobar2000 and viper4windows and some test tones in wave. each software has a basic EQ so you can use one to make an equal loudness EQ, and then use the second one over it to set your second headphone flat. with that system it's real simple to install, only 1 special setting to make it all work at the same time.
 problems:
 you will need to find or create test tones and play them in foobar. most likely those tones will be in mono, so you will have to do that 1 special setting here ^_^:
 on the top left of foobar press "file" -> "preferences" -> DSP Manager. on the right column you got "Downmix channels to mono" you must double clic it and check that it is now on the left in the "Active DSPs" column and press apply. that's it you're all set to play the tones and EQ as you need.
 other problem, the sliders of both EQ are not exactly on the same frequencies, so it's a little messy. but it does work.
 the EQ on viper4windows makes scratchy noises and sometimes crashes.
 and lastly you will also have to lower the pre-gain to avoid clipping.
  
 all in all it's easy to prepare the softwares, and hard to do the EQ itself.
  
 the real perk of that way is for android, as you can do it on your smartphone with viper4android(same link as viper4windows). so let's say you EQ to equal loudness with the EQ in power amp. then you change to the headphone you want to EQ and use V4A to do the second EQ.  all you'll have to do is to play test tones with power amp or whatever audio app.
  
  
  
  
  
 FREE

 this one is all in one software.
 the difficulty will mostly be to install a vst wrapper for foobar. then as I couldn't find how to launch 2 electriQ EQ at once, I just installed 2 different EQs that work as VSTs for foobar ^_^.
 the other one is easyQ it's very much an electriQ copycat.
  
 here just like above you'll have to find yourself some test tones and deal with the mono problem(see foobar+viper explanation just above). and if you have to use too much EQ boost, go change the gain in foobar to avoid clipping.
 so here it's a little harder to prepare, and then it's very easy to use(see Joe's first posts on how to use the EQ). use one EQ to set the equal loudness of your model headphone/speaker using test tones. after that, use the second EQ to do the same thing again with the headphone you want to EQ. the result of that second EQ is what you will want to use from now on for that headphone. the end. 
  
  
  
  
  
 NOT FREE

  
 and that's exactly what Joe Bloggs recommended in the first post (here the EQs are 2 easyQ instead of electriQ, but they're the same thing).
 just to say that it might look complicated, but if you just install all the softwares and follow step by step, it's in fact not that complicated. virtual cable for example, you install it, and that's it. ^_^
 for vst host you have to guess a little if you're not into reading manuals(RTFM!!!!!)
 you'll have to create 2little boxes with the vst EQ. to do that you go to "file"-> "new plug in" and you browse your computer to get the .dll of the EQ you want to use. you do that twice to have 2EQs.
 then you need to unchain the first EQ box from the output (using the little chain icon on the top left of the output box and unchecking the one you don't want linked).
 then pick "virtual cable" as the choice of input for wave and you're done.
 it's really not rocket science.
 but virtual cable isn't free and the demo voice is nerve breaking. so be prepared to find an alternative to virtual cable or to pay for it( it was something like 20euro if I remember well, so you don't have to sell a kidney).
  
 the end result is pretty much like using 2 EQ in foobar, except that here you can use sinegen. and when it comes down to test tones, it's really a nice tool.
  
  
  
 FREE


 here is as someone suggested in the topic, the free version of it. in fact you just add a VST sine wave generator in the chain of vsthost (again you just pick the .dll of the VST you want to use). here I use MDA test tones (it's the testtone.dll in the zip)
 in that configuration you do not need virtual cable so you save 20bucks.
 also you get one software dedicated to your EQing that doesn't mess with the rest. using foobar you have to undo or deactivate all the DSPs before going back to play your favorite music, not a challenge, but still a little boring. so the configuration from that screenshot is my favorite and what I've been using for some times now.
  
 maybe it's possible to do the same with foobar by adding a sine wave generator that is a VST, but that one didn't work (something about GUI but I don't remember). but maybe with another vst it works?
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
 for those wishing to use wasapi, only the "all in foobar" option(second screenshot) will allow for it. but it really doesn't matter at all, you're just creating an EQ profile here, you will not listen to your music with that system. later on, you will just use the EQ you created directly in foobar and will indeed be able to use wasapi. even if obviously EQed signal is not bit perfect, but at least you bypass windows.
  
 anyway I hope that someone will find this useful, and get one of the possibilities working. there are a lot more softwares to try, but I guess we have it covered already here just by trying other VSTs.


----------



## Jon Sonne

davidsh said:


> Besides, why should one EQ out the resonant frequency in the ear canal, as it must occur at all times, headphones or not?


 
  
 I was also wondering about it and I found an answer to it in another tread:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/612665/how-far-can-eq-really-go-towards-truly-equalizing-headphones/150
  
 By HF member jcx: "only iem have to consider the effects of ear canal variations causing additional frequency response effects since they modify the cavity resonance by their physical intrusion"
  
 In other words, when you insert IEM into your ears, your resonance frequencies are altered and thus you need to apply eq to compensate.


----------



## davidsh

^Thank you, that makes sense. 

My biggest problem with EQ is that it often makes my headphones sound rather dull when I EQ for neutrality.


----------



## Jon Sonne

You can always add some fun factor with a second EQ, for example bass boost


----------



## castleofargh

davidsh said:


> ^Thank you, that makes sense.
> 
> My biggest problem with EQ is that it often makes my headphones sound rather dull when I EQ for neutrality.


 

 I know that I never ever go full neutral with a headphone. first because I don't think there actually is only one accepted neutral calibration for headphones at the moment. and also because I find that I need more bass on IEMs than I need on fullsize, which is more than I need on speakers. in fact speakers are the only ones where I'm perfectly fine with electrical flat.
 I guess the point of all this it to let us find our signature, and then being able to transpose it to our future gears.


----------



## Jon Sonne

castleofargh said:


> I find that I need more bass on IEMs than I need on fullsize, which is more than I need on speakers.


 
  
 I guess that is quite normal. And I think it might have something to do with bass impact. You get a satisfactory bass from speakers when they are "neutral", since they can produce bass you can feel in your entire body. Since headphones cannot do this, we compensate by adding more bass


----------



## Jon Sonne

davidsh said:


> For now at least. Besides, why should one EQ out the resonant frequency in the ear canal, as it must occur at all times, headphones or not?


 
  
  I found another possible answer to this
  
 By HF member xnor: 
  
 "For example your pinna boosts frequencies around 3 kHz. You don't equalize speakers for that, instead they produce a flat FR and what arrives your ear is a peak at 3 kHz. Especially in-ears don't care about your pinna at all so you have to have that peak in the headphones. That's why we have FF/DF-equalization in the first place.


----------



## Daniel4IEM

joe bloggs said:


> Mac users rejoice!  You can equalize system sounds using AU plugins (Mac's equivalent to VST plugins) too!
> 
> Using Soundflower (equivalent to Virtual Audio Cable) and AU Lab (equivalent to VSTHost)
> http://www.dctrwatson.com/2011/06/os-x-system-equalizer/
> ...


 
 Couple of years later since this was posted. Mac user here, I recently installed Soundflower and AU Lab. All is working correctly now (thanks to help from LuckyEars) but no equivalent to Sinegen or an AU parametric equalizer. I'm using HD600 with Crack + SB through MacBook Pro, mostly streamed music on Spotify Premium (320 kbps), no DAC. I'm pretty treble sensitive, especially to horns, which makes Latin pretty harsh at times. The EQ setup I mention above seems to give me more control by toning down frequencies within 4-9 range, but it's not really making the discomfort go away as desired. Any thoughts?


----------



## Jon Sonne

daniel4iem said:


> Couple of years later since this was posted. Mac user here, I recently installed Soundflower and AU Lab. All is working correctly now (thanks to help from LuckyEars) but no equivalent to Sinegen or an AU parametric equalizer. I'm using HD600 with Crack + SB through MacBook Pro, mostly streamed music on Spotify Premium (320 kbps), no DAC. I'm pretty treble sensitive, especially to horns, which makes Latin pretty harsh at times. The EQ setup I mention above seems to give me more control by toning down frequencies within 4-9 range, but it's not really making the discomfort go away as desired. Any thoughts?


 
  
 You should definitely install mda test tone generator, which is free and equivalent to Sinegen: http://mda.smartelectronix.com/effects.htm 
  
 For equalization, try Equick from DMG audio. It is not free (price £75), but you can get a one month trial. (My free period ends tomorrow 





 )
  
Follow the guide in the beginning of this thread using the acquired software. You will be AMAZED in the improvement of SQ and I think it will also solve your treble problem!
  
Cheers
  
LuckyEars


----------



## Blackeyeliner

> You should definitely install mda test tone generator, which is free and equivalent to Sinegen: http://mda.smartelectronix.com/effects.htm


 
 How do you use MDA Test Tone? I mean, it does not have sweep mode where you can slide through frequencies, instead it just cuts the spectrum into pieces roughly 1K wide. It's very hard to use it and I haven't found replacement for Mac.


----------



## Jon Sonne

blackeyeliner said:


> How do you use MDA Test Tone? I mean, it does not have sweep mode where you can slide through frequencies, instead it just cuts the spectrum into pieces roughly 1K wide. It's very hard to use it and I haven't found replacement for Mac.


 
  
 You can manually create a sweep by dragging the frequency selector


----------



## BiggerHead

I found this to be a great tutorial, and I think the fundamentals of the technique are well founded.  I'll just point out that I tried to use the free VB-Audio instead of virtual audio cable, and it didn't turn out well.  Just listening to the cable output without even going through vsthost created what seemed to be some kind of aliasing or Moire effect where some parasitic tones were created.  I tried to match all the sample rates, and while this did change the character of the effect a little, it didn't remove it.
  
 The real virtual audio cable works fine. 
  
 By the way is it normal to have spiky left right balance shifts at high frequencies?  Is this more likely the headphones or my not so young ears?  I guess as I ask it I realize the obvious way to find out.. turn the headphones around.  I will be trying it shortly.


----------



## davidsh

biggerhead said:


> I found this to be a great tutorial, and I think the fundamentals of the technique are well founded.  I'll just point out that I tried to use the free VB-Audio instead of virtual audio cable, and it didn't turn out well.  Just listening to the cable output without even going through vsthost created what seemed to be some kind of aliasing or Moire effect where some parasitic tones were created.  I tried to match all the sample rates, and while this did change the character of the effect a little, it didn't remove it.
> 
> The real virtual audio cable works fine.
> 
> By the way is it normal to have spiky left right balance shifts at high frequencies?  Is this more likely the headphones or my not so young ears?  I guess as I ask it I realize the obvious way to find out.. turn the headphones around.  I will be trying it shortly.


 
 I do experience this with headphones, and I do think it is due to imbalance between the drivers rather than my ears, though I haven't given it much thought. I'd be more concerned if it is over a broader frequency range


----------



## BiggerHead

I haven't got back around to testing that balance issue yet.

Anyway, I did get VB-audio to work well with a little advice from customer service:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/801397/vb-audio-cable-windows-volume-control#post_12422957


----------

