# PS4 vs XBOX ONE (What would you buy and why? No fanboy like comments please)



## uchihaitachi

Having seen the presentations and the specifications for both consoles, I am leaning towards the PS4. In the past, I have owned both PS and XBOX. Currently I am really enjoying the 360.


----------



## Parall3l

I'd buy the Xbox just for Halo alone, but the whole big brother type monitoring is throwing me off. Might get both. No Wii U though.


----------



## uchihaitachi

Quote: 





parall3l said:


> I'd buy the Xbox just for Halo alone, but the whole big brother type monitoring is throwing me off. Might get both. No Wii U though.


 
  I remember having two consoles. One always sat in the corner gathering dust. Halo... Might be a reason enough to buy but I wasn't impressed by Halo 4.


----------



## ILL-Audiophilac

As an owner of both a 360 and a ps3 I can appreciate the value of both systems. I am going with the PS4 though at launch and pre-ordered mine yesterday!!  PS4 imo is the better value $100 cheaper with better hardware specs not to mention it's region-free,removable hard drive,no DRM, and my main reason why I chose to go against the XBONE was the fact you have to access or be online to play games idiotic move Microsoft.


----------



## Migou67

PS4 for me too, same reasons as Audiophiliac and I have no use at all of Kinect.


----------



## uchihaitachi

It really seems like Microsoft committed suicide.


----------



## alv4426

Am I the one who feels that current gen consoles never really met their full potential?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Neither.
   
  If I had to pick between the two, PS4 since it's significantly less anti-consumer-rights than the travesty that is the Xbox One and may have exclusives to watch out for, but I'd rather get the Wii U first. At least that's going to have some interesting exclusives down the pipeline for certain.
   
  And even then, I don't feel like the Wii U is worth it right now. Needs a big price drop on the deluxe model and a killer app release (The Wonderful 101 or SSB4 would be sufficient)...just like the 3DS during its first year, really.


----------



## laon

PS4 simply because I do buy and sell used games.


----------



## uchihaitachi

Quote: 





laon said:


> PS4 simply because I do buy and sell used games.


 
  Just why? WHY??!!! Would Microsoft come up with the no used games rule. On top of that, just why did they feel the need to make an internet connection within a 24 hour period a necessity to play?
   
  Am I missing some HUGE surprise XBOX one has to compensate for the above?


----------



## laon

Quote: 





uchihaitachi said:


> Just why? WHY??!!! Would Microsoft come up with the no used games rule. On top of that, just why did they feel the need to make an internet connection within a 24 hour period a necessity to play?
> 
> Am I missing some HUGE surprise XBOX one has to compensate for the above?


 

 Because they want you to buy X360 instead.
   
No kidding


----------



## uchihaitachi

Quote: 





laon said:


> Because they want you to buy X360 instead.
> 
> No kidding


 
  Wow.... Good thing I have the 360. I am surprised that no other big digital juggernauts are participating in the console race. I can only begin to imagine what a Samsung console would be like.


----------



## chewy4

PS4 for me, for the same reasons everyone else is getting it over Xbox One...
   
  Very disappointed in Microsoft this gen, I hope they do some backpedaling and become competitive again. I mean I still hope they get a bunch less sales than PS4 so they learn their lesson, but Sony needs the competition so they don't start slacking.


----------



## Kukuk

Would I rather slam my fingers in a car door or pet a kitten?


----------



## Smeckles

Quote: 





uchihaitachi said:


> It really seems like Microsoft committed suicide.


 

 even if i wanted to buy an XBone (i don't), i couldn't.  if you're not in one of the 21 countries approved for Xbone at launch, then you're stuck.  I read yesterday that Singapore (and Asia) will not get Xbone until 3Q or 4Q in 2014.  One year after it launches in the US.  All due to regional rights management issues.
   
  XB4?  no regional right mgmt? no problems.


----------



## HalidePisces

smeckles said:


> even if i wanted to buy an XBone (i don't), i couldn't.  if you're not in one of the 21 countries approved for Xbone at launch, then you're stuck.  I read yesterday that Singapore (and Asia) will not get Xbone until 3Q or 4Q in 2014.  One year after it launches in the US.  All due to regional rights management issues.
> 
> XB4?  no regional right mgmt? no problems.



I've noticed that Japan is not one of the 21 launch countries. That's significant because Japan is one of the major regions when it comes to games. I'm guessing Microsoft is still having trouble getting Japanese developers to develop for their console, not to mention getting Japanese gamers to buy their console.


----------



## uchihaitachi

Quote: 





halidepisces said:


> I've noticed that Japan is not one of the 21 launch countries. That's significant because Japan is one of the major regions when it comes to games. I'm guessing Microsoft is still having trouble getting Japanese developers to develop for their console, not to mention getting Japanese gamers to buy their console.


 
  It's just like Korea and apple products.


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





halidepisces said:


> I've noticed that Japan is not one of the 21 launch countries. That's significant because Japan is one of the major regions when it comes to games. I'm guessing Microsoft is still having trouble getting Japanese developers to develop for their console, not to mention getting Japanese gamers to buy their console.


 
  What's really odd is that they seem to be buddies with Konami now despite this. I don't get it.
   
  CDPR(The Witcher 3) isn't too happy with them. They probably signed a bunch of contracts and whatnot and didn't find out until after the fact that they couldn't play it in Poland.


----------



## conquerator2

Microsoft is just talking up their asses... No more support from me. I have never seen so many things going wrong in such a short period of time.
  Also, there is still the fact that PS4 will have a noticeably advantage in raw (developer friendly) power


----------



## WhiteCrow

I'm glad that both consoles are using relatively similar parts; hopefully we wont get anymore unfathomably bad ports.


----------



## Parall3l

whitecrow said:


> I'm glad that both consoles are using relatively similar parts; hopefully we wont get anymore unfathomably bad ports.




I still remember the force unleashed one. *cringe


----------



## Kukuk

Quote: 





parall3l said:


> I still remember the force unleashed one. *cringe


 
   
  The best port was Ghostbusters. The devs were talking up the PS3 version, saying it's CPU was so power, how the system was so easy to develop for, and that it was the lead platform, then it came out and the PS3 version was utter trash.
   

   

   
  Of course, you can't talk about crap ports without mentioning Skyrim. Considering how late in the PS3's life it released, it might be the most embarrassing port. This was also another case of the developers talking about how easy to develop for the PS3 was.


----------



## chewy4

More about The Witcher 3 ordeal: http://kotaku.com/the-witchers-anti-drm-studio-finds-itself-in-a-bind-wi-513296668
   
  They're still releasing it for Xbox One, as they don't want to punish the people who choose it as their platform.


----------



## uchihaitachi

PS4 also is for me, more aesthetically pleasing than the XBOX.


----------



## uchihaitachi

But then again.... I think of Halo and I start swaying.... Someone snap me back into sense please.


----------



## ninjapirate9901

PC will always be my preferred gaming option but I will probably pick up both consoles at some stage. I'll probably get the Xbox One first just for Forza 5, nothing on the PS4 launch list is really jumping at me.


----------



## conquerator2

ninjapirate9901 said:


> PC will always be my preferred gaming option but I will probably pick up both consoles at some stage. I'll probably get the Xbox One first just for Forza 5, nothing on the PS4 launch list is really jumping at me.




Not yet but according to Sony there will be over 20 exclusive games, over 40 games with exclusive content and over 150 games overall. All that in the 1st year... Will probably beat the XONE in the exclusives count alone.


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





conquerator2 said:


> Not yet but according to Sony there will be over 20 exclusive games, over 40 games with exclusive content and over 150 games overall. All that in the 1st year... Will probably beat the XONE in the exclusives count alone.


 
  Those 20 exclusive games are just the 1st party exclusives too.
   
  I'm guessing they just didn't reveal a lot of their games at E3 because they just needed the no DRM sucker punch to get ahead by a mile.


----------



## conquerator2

Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> Those 20 exclusive games are just the 1st party exclusives too.
> 
> I'm guessing they just didn't reveal a lot of their games at E3 because they just needed the no DRM sucker punch to get ahead by a mile.


 
   
  I would guess so...
  It is also nice that I can play my games ANYWHERE for a hundred less...
  Another nice thing is that as Mark Cerny stated, Sony will basically have dedicated pieces of hardware for anything, including sound decompression and such, so here is hoping we can actually get some sort of sonic improvement out of the new generation console...
  Here is hoping that PS4 actually uses some decent parts for sound


----------



## WhiteCrow

Anyone excited for the 1886 The order for the PS4, an third person action adventure game set in 1886 steampunk England? On release with the PS4; I'm not preordering it...as games have had a tendency to just be terrible lately...BUT I'm keeping an eye on it.


----------



## uchihaitachi

I was very impressed by the PS4 controller allowing IEMs to be plugged in.


----------



## oqvist

19-0-0. What is this consensus on the internet?


----------



## Jobot

I usually wait for the first hardware revision, so I won't be getting either at launch, but I would probably lean toward the PS4. Now, if the PS4 were 100% backward compatible, I'd already have one on order.


----------



## laon

Sony will offer PS3 backward compatibility through Gaikai service though how it work or how well will it work remain to be seen. At the very least it's something, unlike XB1.


----------



## daleb

Man, that poll makes me happy. PS4 with 23, Xbox One gets 0.
  
  I don't know why anyone would vote Xbox One, though. Man, the PS4 looks awesome.


----------



## HalidePisces

jobot said:


> I usually wait for the first hardware revision, so I won't be getting either at launch, but I would probably lean toward the PS4. Now, if the PS4 were 100% backward compatible, I'd already have one on order.





laon said:


> Sony will offer PS3 backward compatibility through Gaikai service though how it work or how well will it work remain to be seen. At the very least it's something, unlike XB1.



I wouldn't expect full backwards compatibility. In a break from previous generations, both the PS4 and XB1 are not significantly more powerful than their predecessors. The architecture difference would also likely mean more system resources devoted to emulation overhead. Cloud computing could alleviate some of this, but I wouldn't expect to see the more demanding games re-released.


----------



## daleb

What do you mean by "not significantly more powerful?"  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  The PS4 has the specs to handle I highly optimized SkyFilm.
  
  Heck, Watch Dogs looks a ton like Icenhancer, and that's a win in my books


----------



## Kukuk

The biggest issue, more than just the architecture difference, is the clock speeds. Even _if _the new CPUs are more powerful than the old ones, it's extremely difficult (or maybe even impossible) to emulate a 3.2GHz speed on a 1.6GHz CPU.


----------



## laon

Quote: 





halidepisces said:


> I wouldn't expect full backwards compatibility. In a break from previous generations, both the PS4 and XB1 are not significantly more powerful than their predecessors. The architecture difference would also likely mean more system resources devoted to emulation overhead. Cloud computing could alleviate some of this, but I wouldn't expect to see the more demanding games re-released.


 

 It's not "alleviate some", PS3 backward compatibility is fully dependent on cloud with dedicated HW to receive the streamed data to lower latency. I don't think that demanding game make any lick of difference if Sony dedicate PS3 server farm or such, at this point it's too early to dismiss the potential.
   
  Biggest downside on this is that you pretty much has to have good broabdband connection (which will also probably hog the whole home connection) if you want to play the game, but at least it's PS3 games, not PS4.


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





halidepisces said:


> I wouldn't expect full backwards compatibility. In a break from previous generations, both the PS4 and XB1 are not significantly more powerful than their predecessors. The architecture difference would also likely mean more system resources devoted to emulation overhead. Cloud computing could alleviate some of this, but I wouldn't expect to see the more demanding games re-released.


 
  They're _way_ more powerful, it's just harder to see it in graphical differences now. Especially since developers have had 7 years to optimize for PS3's hardware.
   
  But like laon said Cloud computing isn't alleviating some of the power, it's handling it entirely. The cloud is running a game completely and streaming it back. I have no idea how this is supposed to work without massive input lag, but we'll see.


----------



## conquerator2

Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> They're _way_ more powerful, it's just harder to see it in graphical differences now. Especially since developers have had 7 years to optimize for PS3's hardware.
> 
> But like laon said Cloud computing isn't alleviating some of the power, it's handling it entirely. The cloud is running a game completely and streaming it back. I have no idea how this is supposed to work without massive input lag, but we'll see.


 
  Yeah well, especially the XONE which bets on the cloud almost completely.
  I mean having dynamic worlds, seemlessly changing over time over the Cloud?
  I cant see myself haing a lag-free experience....
  Just imagine the size doubled over current gen titles.
  I am glad if I have a completely lag-free seassion and now they are talking about dynamic worlds... Jesus.
  I think PS4, being the more powerful of the two (without the magical cloud) os the safer chance at 100 cheaper.


----------



## daleb

I'm starting to think... Maybe companies won't use the DRM built in to the Xbox One when they have the choice. With all the anger over it and praise towards Sony, I think many companies might skip out on that. There's also the internet deal, though. That's bad, but at least if they don't use the DRM for most games then it would be a little more acceptable. Not that I'll ever buy one, but still. It would make me a little less angry over it.
  
  Edit: Wait, someone voted for the Xbox One?... You do know it doesn't even support your current headphones, right? XD


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





daleb said:


> I'm starting to think... Maybe companies won't use the DRM built in to the Xbox One when they have the choice. With all the anger over it and praise towards Sony, I think many companies might skip out on that. There's also the internet deal, though. That's bad, but at least if they don't use the DRM for most games then it would be a little more acceptable. Not that I'll ever buy one, but still. It would make me a little less angry over it.
> 
> Edit: Wait, someone voted for the Xbox One?... You do know it doesn't even support your current headphones, right? XD


 
  I've got family in the boonies so the online check is a big deal for me. It would be nice to see a lot of publishers not support the DRM but the way the Xbox functions I think this would basically mean that they're allowing their game to be installed on multiple systems so people could install the game and pass it on. 
   
  Quote: 





conquerator2 said:


> Yeah well, especially the XONE which bets on the cloud almost completely.
> I mean having dynamic worlds, seemlessly changing over time over the Cloud?
> I cant see myself haing a lag-free experience....
> Just imagine the size doubled over current gen titles.
> ...


 
  The way they're using the cloud is nothing new or different than anyone else. This is ancient technology that has been used pretty much since online gaming existed.It's just marketed as something new and different. The only real difference is that Microsoft is going to be providing loads of dedicated servers for it.


----------



## chewy4

HUGE news on the Xbox One. They've reversed all their DRM decisions.
   
http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/update


----------



## uchihaitachi

chewy4 said:


> HUGE news on the Xbox One. They've reversed all their DRM decisions.
> 
> 
> http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/update




wow that changes things!


----------



## RoMee

Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> HUGE news on the Xbox One. They've reversed all their DRM decisions.
> 
> http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/update


 
  WOW!, That is a huge surprise. Microsoft has defended their DRM policy to death and had said they will never change it because DRM is the future.
  It's still not a day one buy for me but I will definitely pick one up early next year. 
   
  This is bad news for Nintendo and the WiiU.


----------



## Kukuk

Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> HUGE news on the Xbox One. They've reversed all their DRM decisions.
> 
> http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/update


 
   
  Aw man, I was hoping they'd stick with it. I would have loved to see the next console generation be without Microsoft.
   
  They still have quite the uphill battle, though. Since they didn't announce this at E3, it didn't hit nearly as many people as it could have. There's probably going to be a great number of people who will still think it has DRM, unless MS starts a huge anti-DRM campaign. Not to mention it's still $100 more expensive, and less powerful, than the PS4.


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





kukuk said:


> Aw man, I was hoping they'd stick with it. I would have loved to see the next console generation be without Microsoft.
> 
> They still have quite the uphill battle, though. Since they didn't announce this at E3, it didn't hit nearly as many people as it could have. There's probably going to be a great number of people who will still think it has DRM, unless MS starts a huge anti-DRM campaign. Not to mention it's still $100 more expensive, and less powerful, than the PS4.


 
   
  I'd say this is excellent news for Sony fans. Sony has to actually try now.
   
  The only thing I'm worried about now is Microsoft buying out tons of third party publishers. Now they'll be more inclined to sign exclusive contracts and whatnot now that Microsoft is back in the race..


----------



## Kukuk

Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> I'd say this is excellent news for Sony fans. Sony has to actually try now.
> 
> The only thing I'm worried about now is Microsoft buying out tons of third party publishers. Now they'll be more inclined to sign exclusive contracts and whatnot now that Microsoft is back in the race..


 
   
  I was really hoping with MS gone, there'd be a power vaccuum that Nintendo could fill. Nintendo competing with Sony is a much more pleasant thought than MS competing with Sony.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





romee said:


> WOW!, That is a huge surprise. Microsoft has defended their DRM policy to death and had said they will never change it because DRM is the future.
> It's still not a day one buy for me but I will definitely pick one up early next year.
> 
> This is bad news for Nintendo and the WiiU.


 
  That's ridiculous. Anyone who is surprised by this just hasn't paid attention to what MS has stated about any of it or has taken any of the past history into account. They clearly said they were listening and would adjust as needed based on feedback when they announced these policies. Defending their policy to death? No way. It sounded like a work in progress and MS has always stated that with all previous releases of Xbox as well. Absolutely nothing new with this one and it was extremely easy to see they were going to adjust. The only thing that surprised me was how quick they did it, but it was still expected none the less.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





kukuk said:


> I was really hoping with MS gone, there'd be a power vaccuum that Nintendo could fill. Nintendo competing with Sony is a much more pleasant thought than MS competing with Sony.


 

 I definitely agree with you on that. I'd rather just have Microsoft out of the picture entirely.
   
  Ugh, I was all happy for the future of video gaming but now my reason is gone... Back to  the regularly scheduled "The newest generations of gaming suck" from the non-FPS gamers.
   
  The only problem is Nintendo and Sony can't really compete, they are completely separate markets. I can't see not getting both. Their exclusives are  way different from each other.


----------



## Kukuk

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> That's ridiculous. Anyone who is surprised by this just hasn't paid attention to what MS has stated about any of it or has taken any of the past history into account. *They clearly said they were listening and would adjust as needed based on feedback when they announced these policies.* Defending their policy to death? No way. It sounded like a work in progress and MS has always stated that with all previous releases of Xbox as well. Absolutely nothing new with this one and it was extremely easy to see they were going to adjust. The only thing that surprised me was how quick they did it, but it was still expected none the less.


 
   
  New to PR, huh? Every company that's ever existed has made claims like this, just before releasing a terrible product.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





kukuk said:


> New to PR, huh? Every company that's ever existed has made claims like this, just before releasing a terrible product.


 
  It was clear the message they sent out to consumers was absolutely misjudged by Microsoft. Anyone who is in the business to make money is going to attempt to fix it. I'm real good with companies who attempt resolution.


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





kukuk said:


> I was really hoping with MS gone, there'd be a power vaccuum that Nintendo could fill. Nintendo competing with Sony is a much more pleasant thought than MS competing with Sony.


 
  Nintendo needs to make a console with relatively up to date hardware before that could happen. 
   
  They do make great first party games but they really need to learn how to keep up with hardware and get more third party support.


----------



## Kukuk

Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> Nintendo needs to make a console with relatively up to date hardware before that could happen.
> 
> They do make great first party games but they really need to learn how to keep up with hardware and get more third party support.


 
   
  That's what I'm saying, if MS were out of the picture, I think Nintendo would step up to the plate with powerful hardware again. Right now MS and Sony are competing for pretty much the same market right now. Nintendo stepped aside from that market just because it's hard to split a market 3 ways, and MS and Sony were pretty much dominating it anyway.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





kukuk said:


> That's what I'm saying, if MS were out of the picture, I think Nintendo would step up to the plate with powerful hardware again. Right now MS and Sony are competing for pretty much the same market right now. Nintendo stepped aside from that market just because it's hard to split a market 3 ways, and MS and Sony were pretty much dominating it anyway.


 
  The more, the merrier, in my opinion. Creates competition and we get great exclusive IPs such as Halo, Forza, Zelda, Mario, and Planetside. Could give two craps about what system they are on and all of this fanboy talk. I'm there for the gaming experience.


----------



## daleb

I bet if Microsoft left the console market, they'd still make Halo for another console, which is really profitable.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





daleb said:


> I bet if Microsoft left the console market, they'd still make Halo for another console, which is really profitable.


 
  I'm sure MS knows how to make money better than any of us know how to.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> I'm sure MS knows how to make money better than any of us know how to.


 
  That came out wrong. I'm saying MS is in the business to make money just like anyone else. If they're choosing to stay in it, it's because they think that can be more profitable than just being a developer or publisher.


----------



## Kukuk

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> The more, the merrier, in my opinion. Creates competition and we get great exclusive IPs such as Halo, Forza, Zelda, Mario, and Planetside. Could give two craps about what system they are on and all of this fanboy talk.* I'm there for the gaming experience.*


 
   
  And MS has been at the forefront of lowering the bar of gaming experiences. You gotta remember, it was MS that pioneered nickle and dime'ing with DLC on consoles. It was MS that popularized paying off developers for exclusive DLC. And it was also them that threw fistfuls of cash at developers to not mention they are making Playstation version of their games when they are.
   
  It's also worth mentioning: the reason they got rid of the DRM is not because gamers didn't want it, it's because their reputation has been hurt because of it. If they bounce back, I'm sure we'll be seeing the DRM come back with them.


----------



## daleb

My reason for disliking them is that their entire console is based around the multiplayer FPS genre. I HATE the multiplayer FPS genre, unless its local based LAN where we all just goof around (like say having 16 people all get in warthog and just constantly flip each other with the only weapon being rocket launchers). Since I don't have a competitive bone in me, multiplayer gaming in the way the Xbox does it is just useless.
   
  Edit: I wasn't saying they won't make bucket loads of money, I'm saying just wish they had games that could actually appeal to me. I like Zelda, Shadow of the Colossus, Dwarf Fortress, etc. On the other hand, the more popular games like Call of Duty just seem so boring to me... Unless we've someone messed with the game rules so everyone has no clip and RPGs. Then its awesome.
   
  Why aren't their more games like Lost Odyssey on the Xbox? That's what I like to see.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





kukuk said:


> And MS has been at the forefront of lowering the bar of gaming experiences. You gotta remember, it was MS that pioneered nickle and dime'ing with DLC on consoles. It was MS that popularized paying off developers for exclusive DLC. And it was also them that threw fistfuls of cash at developers to not mention they are making Playstation version of their games when they are.
> 
> It's also worth mentioning: the reason they got rid of the DRM is not because gamers didn't want it, it's because their reputation has been hurt because of it. If they bounce back, I'm sure we'll be seeing the DRM come back with them.


 
  With all due respect, that's entirely laughable. All gamers have benefitted greatly, both directly and indirectly, because of their success. Also, could you explain what is actually wrong with DRM and the concepts of it?


----------



## daleb

Oh gosh... Please don't start that. PLEASE DON'T START THAT. We already deal with that from people who don't even believe in it and just want to make others made. Please don't ask questions that only make others mad...


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





daleb said:


> My reason for disliking them is that their entire console is based around the multiplayer FPS genre. I HATE the multiplayer FPS genre, unless its local based LAN where we all just goof around (like say having 16 people all get in warthog and just constantly flip each other with the only weapon being rocket launchers). Since I don't have a competitive bone in me, multiplayer gaming in the way the Xbox does it is just useless.
> 
> Edit: I wasn't saying they won't make bucket loads of money, I'm saying just wish they had games that could actually appeal to me. I like Zelda, Shadow of the Colossus, Dwarf Fortress, etc. On the other hand, the more popular games like Call of Duty just seem so boring to me... Unless we've someone messed with the game rules so everyone has no clip and RPGs. Then its awesome.
> 
> Why aren't their more games like Lost Odyssey on the Xbox? That's what I like to see.


 
  You see, this is a perfectly good reason to not like a console. They don't have the games you want to play on them. Makes complete sense. I wouldn't buy a console that didn't have the games I wanted either. Perfectly valid in my eyes. Makes a lot more sense than "I don't like DRM," at least. Focus on the games. Focus on the experience. Focus on the fun. Not the policies which, btw, all console makers can change at anytime.
   
  Edit: I, in fact, agree with you that the scope is a little narrow on the Xbox. That's why I've owned all home consoles for quite some time. If there was a singular place to get everything, I'd be there and only there.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





daleb said:


> Oh gosh... Please don't start that. PLEASE DON'T START THAT. We already deal with that from people who don't even believe in it and just want to make others made. Please don't ask questions that only make others mad...


 
  No need to get worked up that much about it. If there's no rational answer, there's no rational answer.


----------



## RoMee

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> That's ridiculous. Anyone who is surprised by this just hasn't paid attention to what MS has stated about any of it or has taken any of the past history into account. They clearly said they were listening and would adjust as needed based on feedback when they announced these policies. Defending their policy to death? No way. It sounded like a work in progress and MS has always stated that with all previous releases of Xbox as well. Absolutely nothing new with this one and it was extremely easy to see they were going to adjust. The only thing that surprised me was how quick they did it, but it was still expected none the less.


 
  -NVM- Don't want to upset anyone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  YAY, Microsoft!!
   
The power of stock holders and bad pre-orders ftw!


----------



## daleb

Okay, well then, time for PMs as to not mess this thread up anymore then what just happened :I
   
  So, PS4. I'm pretty dang excited. I love the indie set-up it has on it!


----------



## Kukuk

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> With all due respect, that's entirely laughable. All gamers have benefitted greatly, both directly and indirectly, because of their success. Also, could you explain what is actually wrong with DRM and the concepts of it?


 
   
  Gamers have benefited from having content cut from the game, only to be sold to them at a later date (or even worse, the day of release)? Or how does releasing DLC on one console benefit everyone?
   
  I'm not going to say they've had no positive impact on the industry, but the bad far outweighs the good in my book.
   
  Simply put, DRM removes your right to ownership (instead, you're merely renting a license, which can be revoked on a whim). The idea behind it is that games will no longer be able to be pirated. Anyone that been anywhere near a computer knows that's total BS. Pirates will always find a way to circumvent DRM, and it's the honest purchasers that suffer the consequences.


----------



## daleb

Humans really care about the control they have over their lives. If a human doesn't feel like they are 100% in control (whether they actually are or not), then they feel threatened. DRM is one of the easiest ways to make a customer feel threatened in this way.


----------



## chewy4

I know for the Witcher 2 the DRM version was pirated way more than the DRM free version. It doesn't really help too much with that. Pirates just use cracks anyways. When publishers like Ubisoft implement obtrusive DRM it just makes it so the cracked version is more convenient than the legitimate version. 
   
  There are many forms of DRM and some of them aren't all that bad, but it's very simple to see why Microsoft's original form was bad. Most countries in the world couldn't use it, military couldn't use it when deployed, couldn't use the console in any rural areas, couldn't use it outside your own country, internet goes out for too long you couldn't use it, Microsoft's servers go down you couldn't use it...


----------



## Kukuk

Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> I know for the Witcher 2 the DRM version was pirated way more than the DRM free version. It doesn't really help too much with that. Pirates just use cracks anyways. *When publishers like Ubisoft implement obtrusive DRM it just makes it so the cracked version is more convenient than the legitimate version. *
> 
> There are many forms of DRM and some of them aren't all that bad, but it's very simple to see why Microsoft's original form was bad. Most countries in the world couldn't use it, military couldn't use it when deployed, couldn't use the console in any rural areas, couldn't use it outside your own country, internet goes out for too long you couldn't use it, Microsoft's servers go down you couldn't use it...


 
   
  I remember with... Assassin's Creed 2, I think? They made it so you had to be online to play it, and your save file wasn't saved to your computer, but rather their servers. Within DAYS, there was a crack for it, to not only play offline, but save to your computer as well.


----------



## roguegeek

kukuk said:


> Gamers have benefited from having content cut from the game, only to be sold to them at a later date (or even worse, the day of release)? Or how does releasing DLC on one console benefit everyone?
> 
> I'm not going to say they've had no positive impact on the industry, but the bad far outweighs the good in my book.



We can agree to disagree on this and move on.




kukuk said:


> Simply put, DRM removes your right to ownership (instead, you're merely renting a license, which can be revoked on a whim). The idea behind it is that games will no longer be able to be pirated. Anyone that been anywhere near a computer knows that's total BS. Pirates will always find a way to circumvent DRM, and it's the honest purchasers that suffer the consequences.





daleb said:


> Humans really care about the control they have over their lives. If a human doesn't feel like they are 100% in control (whether they actually are or not), then they feel threatened. DRM is one of the easiest ways to make a customer feel threatened in this way.



I'm as much of a control freak as anyone out there. Moreso than most. I build CMS's for companies and have an engineer's mind, so yeah, I'm a major control freak. These views I'm reading above, they're just so egotistical in my opinion. These companies are not out to control your lives. They could care less about your lives as long as you buy their products. If the DRM is unobtrusive and you are legally acquiring it, who cares?


----------



## daleb

Nobody gets mad at Steam. Steam has Unobtrusive DRM. I didn't even realize it had DRM for a while. We still feel in control with Steam, even if we aren't. On the other hand, almost all other DRM set out is very obtrusive.
   
  My favorite DRM ever is the one made by Nintendo for the SNES. It was made so if you put in a pirated cartridge, it wouldn't have a special chip that only Nintendo knew how to make. Instead of just making the game not running, they did something much better. The game starts messing with you. In Earthbound, this was known to make spawn rates triple, and make all the enemies tougher. By the end of the game, Giygas is strong enough to one shot you. With a cheat code so you have infinite health. So you can't beat the game at all! In Mortal Kombat, without the chip, every enemy could dodge every single attack and hit you no matter what. You can't even past level one on that. Obviously, none of this affects the normal user, so no one was bothered by it at all.
   
   
  "If consumers even know there's a DRM, what it is, and how it works, we've already failed." Peter Lee, an executive at Disney.
   
   
  Quote: 





> These views I'm reading above, they're just so egotistical in my opinion.


 
  I... am really scared of your brain


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

With Microsoft's reversal of DRM and it's carbon copy statement of what Sony said first, I can't help but see them as anything but a rebuilding from the disaster that was their DRM-policy.

They can disguise it as move done due to the consumers, but it's clearly because they knew they'd lose a lot of money and customers to Sony if they stuck with it.

I say "Too little, too late". *IF* I was still making a choice between the systems, I'd get the PS4 on principle. The PS4 was for the gamer right out of the gate. The XBone was catered for Microsoft and the developers in terms of maximizing profits with little regard to the consumer.

I had all the current gen consoles until recently, which I just stuck with a PS3. Next gen, I'm sticking with a PS4. I like to support a company not out to control the gamer.


----------



## daleb

I actually got a 360 over the PS3 last gen, though now looking back at the games that were on each system, its clear that the PS3 had the game style I liked more. I'm not making that mistake this generation again. PS4 all the way!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Microsoft gave a an F-U to all the gamers up to E3, now it's apologizing and trying to mend the bridge they burned. This is something that should've been done from the beginning, and not after they saw what an ass whooping Sony gave them in their last few minutes of their conference.

I don't trust Microsoft. I loved the 360, but after this, and after their 180... they clearly have no idea what they are doing.


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





daleb said:


> Nobody gets mad at Steam. Steam has Unobtrusive DRM. I didn't even realize it had DRM for a while. We still feel in control with Steam, even if we aren't. On the other hand, almost all other DRM set out is very obtrusive.


 
  It's not true that nobody gets mad at Steam. Valve has just calmed the masses through bribery.
   
  I actually got banned from Steam for no reason before. I believe it was reversed in less than a week, but to this date I don't know why I got banned. So stuff like this happens, and it does worry me sometimes when I have a library of over a hundred games that could just disappear because they made a mistake or because my account got hacked.
   
  That being said, they're still better than what Microsoft was proposing. You can at least play offline after logging in once.


----------



## Zyndikate

I've always been a Sony fan due to the exclusives that it provided (Kingdom Hearts, Uncharted, among others).  In addition, I actually preferred the PS3 controller design because I felt the XBox 'DPad' was too clunky for use in 3D fighters.
   
  With a lot of my more preferred exclusives being dissolved for next-gen (KH3, FFXV), I'll probably just go with the cheaper console.
   
  While the changes made to the XBone DRM are arguably a nice addition, it isn't quite enough to get me to change.


----------



## RoMee

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Microsoft gave a an F-U to all the gamers up to E3, now it's apologizing and trying to mend the bridge they burned. This is something that should've been done from the beginning, and not after they saw what an ass whooping Sony gave them in their last few minutes of their conference.
> 
> I don't trust Microsoft. I loved the 360, but after this, and after their 180... they clearly have no idea what they are doing.


 
  A lot xbox fanboys finally came out of their hole saying, "I knew they would change it because of feedbacks from xbox fans *fixed 






". But I'm willing to bet the only reason why Microsoft changed their DRM policy is because of bad preorders, negative press, and probably pressure from shareholders.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Like I was telling an Xbot on Facebook:



> BTW, you can bet your ass that if Sony also pushed system DRM on us (after the Xbox conference), Microsoft would NOT have backpedaled and done a 180. Truth is, Microsoft didn't listen to ANYONE. They saw all that potential cashflow disappearing right before their eyes, and changed to try and get some of it back. It's obvious. After Sony's conference Microsoft said "OH SHI-. WE'RE ****ED, WE HAVE TO MATCH WHAT SONY IS DOING OR WE'RE UTTERLY ****ED". Your "King" is nothing but a foolish dictator that is losing power, and trying to halt the mutiny against him.




This was after he posted a status saying 'Hail to The King' after Microsoft's 180.


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





romee said:


> A lot xbox fanboys finally came out of their hole saying, "I knew they would change it because of feedbacks". But I'm willing to bet the only reason why Microsoft changed their DRM policy is because of bad preorders, negative press, and probably pressure from shareholders.


 
  Which is essentially feedback.


----------



## RoMee

Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> Which is essentially feedback.


 
  I was talking about feedback from xbox fans.
  We all know Microsoft saw that their cash flow from the xbox was going to stall, it's the only reason why they stop their DRM campaign. The XBOX One and its DRM was headed in the same direction as Windows phone..... Nowhere.


----------



## roguegeek

So I'll ask this again, then. Everyone is blasting MS for their previous policies. I get the immediate and wide spread emotional reaction to it (I reacted too), but it's been a week now. Let's just say they never announced a reversal on it. What was wrong with those policies? I understand the arguments against DRM that detracts from the experience. What exactly is wrong with unobtrusive DRM?
   
  I'm not asking because I'm looking to troll and stir up everyone. I'm asking because I truly don't see an issue and am trying to get my limited brain to understand the other side.


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> So I'll ask this again, then. Everyone is blasting MS for their previous policies. I get the immediate and wide spread emotional reaction to it (I reacted too), but it's been a week now. Let's just say they never announced a reversal on it. What was wrong with those policies? I understand the arguments against DRM that detracts from the experience. What exactly is wrong with unobtrusive DRM?
> 
> I'm not asking because I'm looking to troll and stir up everyone. I'm asking because I truly don't see an issue and am trying to get my limited brain to understand the other side.


 
  For Microsoft's(the obtrusive kind):
   
  Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> Most countries in the world couldn't use it, military couldn't use it when deployed, couldn't use the console in any rural areas, couldn't use it outside your own country, internet goes out for too long you couldn't use it, Microsoft's servers go down you couldn't use it...


 
   
  And to add to that, resale of games is only allowed under specific circumstances.
   
  For Steam's(the [mostly] unobtrusive kind):
   
  Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> I actually got banned from Steam for no reason before. I believe it was reversed in less than a week, but to this date I don't know why I got banned. So stuff like this happens, and it does worry me sometimes when I have a library of over a hundred games that could just disappear because they made a mistake or because my account got hacked.
> 
> That being said, they're still better than what Microsoft was proposing. You can at least play offline after logging in once.


 
   
   
  The only unobtrusive DRM is just the old CD key style DRM. No online verification, just enter a CD key and if it's the same kind of code they're looking for then the game works and will continue working regardless of the scenario. All other forms of DRM screw people over every once and a while.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> The only unobtrusive DRM is just the old CD key style DRM.


 
   
  And Nintendo's SNES DRM! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Edit: I still don't see how you find the DRM that was going to be on the Xbox One not obtrusive. It got in the way of everything. Most people don't have amazing internet. Only 2 out of every 7 people have internet at all. Most people buy used games all the time, too


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





daleb said:


> And Nintendo's SNES DRM!


 
  Yeah that too, I think Serious Sam 3 did something similar where a pink monster would constantly attack you. Really only effects the pirates and is often pretty funny.
   
  This kind of DRM is a little risky for a publisher though. Some people will pirate the game and then start talking about how terrible it is because of these things, and some people could believe it.


----------



## daleb

They can make sure to also put in the game pointing out they pirated it like Pokemon's "Buy this game or die."


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> For Microsoft's(the obtrusive kind):
> 
> 
> And to add to that, resale of games is only allowed under specific circumstances.
> ...


 
   
  So the military thing, yeah, I've heard it. Are you affected by it? Maybe you are. Maybe you aren't. It's a rhetorical question. It's a very small population that's going to be affected by it. Developers and publishers get around this all the time with company and education licenses. Let's say, for the sake of the conversation, that small population is granted a pass and this is a non-issue (which it is right now). What is wrong with the previous policies? Also, you're saying DRM screws people over, but you aren't saying how it does. That's just not good enough. Practically and functionally, what's wrong with it?


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> So the military thing, yeah, I've heard it. Are you affected by it? Maybe you are. Maybe you aren't. It's a rhetorical question. It's a very small population that's going to be affected by it. Developers and publishers get around this all the time with company and education licenses. Let's say, for the sake of the conversation, that small population is granted a pass and this is a non-issue (which it is right now). What is wrong with the previous policies? Also, you're saying DRM screws people over, but you aren't saying how it does. That's just not good enough. Practically and functionally, what's wrong with it?


 
  It's not as small of a population as you think. Many people live in rural areas. Many people travel outside of the country for work. It would have only worked in 20 some countries in the first place since it was region locked, so you're excluding entire nations here. Everyone would be effected by Microsoft's servers going down. _Like they are_ _right now._
   
  I already mentioned a specific example that happened to me personally on how DRM screws people over. It screws people over because of connection problems, faulty bans, and the possibility of hacked accounts. Someone could hack into your account and do something that gets you permanently banned. Goodbye entire library of games.


----------



## RoMee

A while back I lost my job and had to cut back on cable, Internet, etc. If that happens again and I had the XBOX One and its DRM, it would be nothing more than a $500 bluray player.
  Right now a third of people in my kid's class don't have reliable or no internet service due to low income and the only solution Microsoft offered was, "buy a XBOX 360".
  Some people just don't see the problems that doesn't effect them.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> It's not as small of a population as you think. Many people live in rural areas. Many people travel outside of the country for work. It would have only worked in 20 some countries in the first place since it was region locked, so you're excluding entire nations here. Everyone would be effected by Microsoft's servers going down. _Like they are_ _right now._


 
  Show me the users affected by this aren't as small as I think it is and you have legs on this argument. Otherwise, I'm more inclined to believe MS did some homework on it, identified how many people they would truly not be able to make money off of, and still went through with the policy. It got reversed because of the perception, not the reality. So dead issue to me.
   
  Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> I already mentioned a specific example that happened to me personally on how DRM screws people over. It screws people over because of connection problems, faulty bans, and the possibility of hacked accounts. Someone could hack into your account and do something that gets you permanently banned. Goodbye entire library of games.


 
  Doesn't affect me because I have a good connection. Apparently, so does everyone else since they are all online and playing together. I have been banned and kicked more than a couple times for invalid reasons. I've called up support and got reinstated right away. Is it a hassle? Sure, but I see it as necessary to keep the cheats and hacker to a minimum. If you've played game such as COD where they don't enforce it that much vs a game where they do, you'd see it's worth the hassle too. The only people who need to worry about it are the pirates and people who circumvent the policies. So, again, I see this as paranoia vs reality.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





> So the military thing, yeah, I've heard it. Are you affected by it?


 
   
  This is America, where everyone walks around shirtless with the flag painted on their chests. This affects all of us patriotic folks a ton.
   
  Edit: Ugh your beliefs are horrible...


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





romee said:


> A while back I lost my job and had to cut back on cable, Internet, etc. If that happens again and I had the XBOX One and its DRM, it would be nothing more than a bluray player.
> Right now a third of people in my kids don't have reliable or no internet service due to low income and the only solution Microsoft offered was, "buy a XBOX 360".
> Some people just don't see the problems that doesn't effect them.


 
  It was an awful comment they made that damaged them terribly. They also made it before they made the announcements, so it's not like they were kicking people when they were down.
   
  People without access, yeah, that sucks. It absolutely sucks. It's not like MS decided it, though, to alienate those people. They made that decision because it _will_ contribute to a better gaming experience for everyone within their ecosystem. They just misjudged who was ready to step forward. Again, do you think MS is making these decisions to purposely detract people from their system? No, they're doing it because they think it's what will give them an advantage in the market, will deliver a better experience to their users, and can monetize it.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





daleb said:


> This is America, where everyone walks around shirtless with the flag painted on their chests. This affects all of us patriotic folks a ton.
> 
> Edit: Ugh your beliefs are horrible...


 
  Oh jeez. You didn't just pull out the "'Merica, hell yeah!" argument, did you? If you're being serious, I will say first that there are other countries than the US the system is being released in and second, there are other people in the US that don't walk around shirtless screaming "America". Probably a pretty fair amount of them too.


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> Show me the users affected by this aren't as small as I think it is and you have legs on this argument. Otherwise, I'm more inclined to believe MS did some homework on it, identified how many people they would truly not be able to make money off of, and still went through with the policy. It got reversed because of the perception, not the reality. So dead issue to me.


 
  I'm not about to do the math for you.
   
  Take the population of the 20 some countries that support the console. Subtract that from the population of the world. Add on the amount of people who don't have internet in those working countries. The rest is mostly guesswork, but there's still some left from other scenarios I described.
   
   
  Quote: 





> Doesn't affect me because I have a good connection. Apparently, so does everyone else since they are all online and playing together. I have been banned and kicked more than a couple times for invalid reasons. I've called up support and got reinstated right away. Is it a hassle? Sure, but I see it as necessary to keep the cheats and hacker to a minimum. If you've played game such as COD where they don't enforce it that much vs a game where they do, you'd see it's worth the hassle too. The only people who need to worry about it are the pirates and people who circumvent the policies. So, again, I see this as paranoia vs reality.


 
  It does effect you. The servers will crash. Kind of self centered point of view either way...
   
  And we're not just talking about getting banned from an online game, we're talking about getting your entire library of games getting taken away. Single player and multiplayer. You and me got lucky with support, but not everyone has.
   
  It's not paranoia if it's something that has, does, and will continue to happen. It is reality.


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> It was an awful comment they made that damaged them terribly. They also made it before they made the announcements, so it's not like they were kicking people when they were down.
> 
> People without access, yeah, that sucks. It absolutely sucks. It's not like MS decided it, though, to alienate those people. They made that decision because it _will_ contribute to a better gaming experience for everyone within their ecosystem. They just misjudged who was ready to step forward. Again, do you think MS is making these decisions to purposely detract people from their system? No, they're doing it because they think it's what will give them an advantage in the market, will deliver a better experience to their users, and can monetize it.


 
  They were likely using the online checks as a way to deliver advertisements. They get a lot more money if users are forced to update ads at least once a day.
   
  There are plenty of ways around the 24hr online check while still being able to do what they were planning to do.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> I'm not about to do the math for you.
> 
> Take the population of the 20 some countries that support the console. Subtract that from the population of the world. Add on the amount of people who don't have internet in those working countries. The rest is mostly guesswork, but there's still some left from other scenarios I described.


 
  I don't think you could do the math. That's not a slight towards you, I'm just saying yours and mine and everyone's guess on it is a good as a coat racks. It's all perception.
   
  Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> It does effect you. The servers will crash. Kind of self centered point of view either way...
> 
> And we're not just talking about getting banned from an online game, we're talking about getting your entire library of games getting taken away. Single player and multiplayer. You and me got lucky with support, but not everyone has.
> 
> It's not paranoia if it's something that has, does, and will continue to happen. It is reality.


 
  Servers crash. Such is life. It hasn't affected my gaming experience more than an immesureable fraction of that time. The lifetime bans, I'm sure they happen. I have not a single example of it happening to any friends or co-players where it was completely invalid. Just such a small percentage of these things actually happening in my experience (and I have a pretty damn fair amount), but the internet give everyone such a big voice. The large amount of people who are happy, stay happy. The people who aren't, they rage on the internet.


----------



## RoMee

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> It was an awful comment they made that damaged them terribly. They also made it before they made the announcements, so it's not like they were kicking people when they were down.
> 
> People without access, yeah, that sucks. It absolutely sucks. It's not like MS decided it, though, to alienate those people. They made that decision because it _will_ contribute to a better gaming experience for everyone within their ecosystem. They just misjudged who was ready to step forward. Again, *do you think MS is making these decisions to purposely detract people from their system?* No, they're doing it because they think it's what will give them an advantage in the market, will deliver a better experience to their users, and can monetize it.


 
  No, I never said that was their purpose, to me it was more or an attempt to stop piracy. It's just that they're forcing DRM onto people who don't want it and at the same time making the console useless to people who don't have internet access.
   
  I don't see how giving people something they don't want is going to give them an advantage in the market.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> They were likely using the online checks as a way to deliver advertisements. They get a lot more money if users are forced to update ads at least once a day.
> 
> There are plenty of ways around the 24hr online check while still being able to do what they were planning to do.


 
  Ok, seriously, have you been on PSN or XBL? There are new ads every minute. I'm certain the checkin isn't to deliver advertising. That's already happening a lot on current gen.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





romee said:


> No, I never said that was their purpose, to me it was more or an attempt to stop piracy. It's just that they're forcing DRM onto people who don't want it and at the same time making the console useless to people who don't have internet access.
> 
> I don't see how giving people something they don't want is going to give them an advantage in the market.


 
  Positives and negatives to the argument. Of course I would want less checks, but if it will give me a persistent experience and I'm not a pirate, why do I care? Hell, even if you didn't care about the experience and it was purely about trying to stop pirates, why do you care?


----------



## roguegeek

Ugh, gotta step away for some meetings right now because I have completely ignored work for several hours. Damn you people for being interesting. Hope no one is taking any of this personally. I'm just a fan of finding understanding and this is a real difficult one for me to side with any of you on.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> Ugh, gotta step away for some meetings right now because I have completely ignored work for several hours. Damn you people for being interesting. Hope no one is taking any of this personally. I'm just a fan of finding understanding and this is a real difficult one for me to side with any of you on.


 

 I am taking this _very_ personally


----------



## RoMee

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> Positives and negatives to the argument. Of course I would want less checks, but if it will give me a persistent experience and I'm not a pirate, why do I care? Hell, even if you didn't care about the experience and it was purely about trying to stop pirates, why do you care?


 
  You're a bit shortsighted when it comes to the XBOX One's DRM. Just because it isn't an issue for you don't mean it's not an issue for others.
  You need to see things from other people's point of view, you need to see the whole picture. There's really not much left you say if you refuse to do that.


----------



## daleb

Exactly. I know it doesn't affect me, but it affects others, and that's what I care about. Seeing bad things happen to others bothers me.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





romee said:


> You're a bit shortsighted when it comes to the XBOX One's DRM. Just because it isn't an issue for you don't mean it's not an issue for others.
> You need to see things from other people's point of view, you need to see the whole picture. There's really not much left you say if you refuse to do that.


 
  That's not it at all. I'm seeing it. I respect it. I don't really agree with it entirely. I think those views come from some shortsightedness. I think it's it's very egoic and emotional. There is absolutely a group that I feel for because they don't meet the requirements needed for MS to deliver the experience they want to give, but at some point, a company needs to decide who they are going to cater to. MS chose the technology progressive group.


----------



## daleb

Could you please explain the benefits of what was going to happen, please? All I heard about was the family plan thing. Were there other things they were aiming for?


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





daleb said:


> Could you please explain the benefits of what was going to happen, please? All I heard about was the family plan thing. Were there other things they were aiming for?


 
  Sure. I'll be real quick, but sure. I'm not of a creative mind, so I can't talk too much about application, but I can throw my thoughts out there. MS laying the foundation for an always online platform that is power by cloud computing. More persistent worlds. Being able to add capacity, capability, and functionality on the fly without altering the client-side stations. Real time analytics from a larger world that can be translated back into your gameplay to enhance your experience. That experience continuing even when you aren't there. Those things are really exciting to me, but it's a lot of functionality that you can't just put into a platform without set rules, requirements, and (dare I say it) policies.


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> I don't think you could do the math. That's not a slight towards you, I'm just saying yours and mine and everyone's guess on it is a good as a coat racks. It's all perception.


 
  Not all of it, but it's a fact that most countries wouldn't have access. No guesswork there.
   
   
  Quote: 





> Servers crash. Such is life. It hasn't affected my gaming experience more than an immesureable fraction of that time. The lifetime bans, I'm sure they happen. I have not a single example of it happening to any friends or co-players where it was completely invalid. Just such a small percentage of these things actually happening in my experience (and I have a pretty damn fair amount), but the internet give everyone such a big voice. The large amount of people who are happy, stay happy. The people who aren't, they rage on the internet.


 
   
  You can't deny these are all negative things. And your entire library being inaccessible can be avoided without this DRM.
   
   
  Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> Sure. I'll be real quick, but sure. I'm not of a creative mind, so I can't talk too much about application, but I can throw my thoughts out there. MS laying the foundation for an always online platform that is power by cloud computing. More persistent worlds. Being able to add capacity, capability, and functionality on the fly without altering the client-side stations. Real time analytics from a larger world that can be translated back into your gameplay to enhance your experience. That experience continuing even when you aren't there. Those things are really exciting to me, but it's a lot of functionality that you can't just put into a platform without set rules, requirements, and (dare I say it) policies.


 
   
  Let's say that this is true and suddenly after several decades of its existence this ancient cloud computing technology suddenly becomes extremely useful for things other than online games.... Microsoft's policy changes don't effect this one bit. Their 24hr checks, region locking and restrictions on game resale have absolutely nothing to do with this.


----------



## RoMee

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> That's not it at all. I'm seeing it. I respect it. I don't really agree with it entirely. I think those views come from some shortsightedness. I think it's it's very egoic and emotional. *There is absolutely a group that I feel for* because they don't meet the requirements needed for MS to deliver the experience they want to give, but at some point, a company needs to decide who they are going to cater to. MS chose the technology progressive group.


 
  And yet you don't care how XBOX One's DRM effect them. You obviously don't get it so this is my last attempt because debating Microsoft abandoned DRM is moot.
   

 If I lose my job and can't pay my internet bill anymore than my XBOX One is nothing more than a $500 bluray player.
 If I move to an area that has no access to the internet like Morganton, NC than my XBOX One is nothing more than a $500 bluray player,
 I can no longer buy, trade, and sell used games freely and with who ever I want.
  ​
  None of this effect you but it effects me.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> You can't deny these are all negative things. And your entire library being inaccessible can be avoided without this DRM.


 
  I don't deny that. They are negative things, for sure. They're just not prominent enough to influence my decision right now. They could be in the future. I'm guessing they wont because networks generally become more robust vs degrade as time goes by. Definitely a factor, though.
   
  Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> Let's say that this is true and suddenly after several decades of its existence this ancient cloud computing technology suddenly becomes extremely useful for things other than online games.... Microsoft's policy changes don't effect this one bit. Their 24hr checks, region locking and restrictions on game resale have absolutely nothing to do with this.


 
  I think it's two separate issues. There are policies needed to support the infrastructure they are trying to provide. There are policies to help monetize the product. 24hr checks is infrastructure, so I'm ok with it. Region locking is whatever to me. I think it affects a very very small group that MS was ok with alienating. Game resale and sharing, I'm in agreeance with the popular opinion. I don't like it, but it does makes sense from a business perspective. It's just the price you pay to play their game, I suppose.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





romee said:


> And yet you don't care how XBOX One's DRM effect them. You obviously don't get it so this is my last attempt because debating Microsoft abandoned DRM is moot.
> 
> 
> If I lose my job and can't pay my internet bill anymore than my XBOX One is nothing more than a $500 bluray player.
> ...


 
  I do get it. You just don't like my answer. Playing a gaming console is not your right. It's a privilege with a cost associated with it and you have to pay into that. If you lose your job and can't pay your internet bill which, in turn, you can't play your console, I would hope that is the least of your problems. If your area has no access to the internet and it's a priority for you (it definitely is for me), live in an area that supports your needs (which can be applied to tons a different things beside internet access such as schools and crime rates). As for buy, trade, and sell used games freely, I sympathize with you on this one.


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> I think it's two separate issues. There are policies needed to support the infrastructure they are trying to provide. There are policies to help monetize the product. 24hr checks is infrastructure, so I'm ok with it. Region locking is whatever to me. I think it affects a very very small group that MS was ok with alienating. Game resale and sharing, I'm in agreeance with the popular opinion. I don't like it, but it does makes sense from a business perspective. It's just the price you pay to play their game, I suppose.


 
  They aren't needed. It's evidenced by the fact that they are still doing all the cloud stuff without any of this stuff.
   
  It's downright ridiculous to say that region locking would only effect a small group. Only 21 countries would have been able to play the Xbox One because of it. More would likely roll out in the future, but plenty would still be left out.


----------



## RoMee

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> *I do get it*. You just don't like my answer. Playing a gaming console is not your right. It's a privilege with a cost associated with it and you have to pay into that. If you lose your job and can't pay your internet bill which, in turn, you can't play your console, I would hope that is the least of your problems. If your area has no access to the internet and it's a priority for you (it definitely is for me), live in an area that supports your needs (which can be applied to tons a different things beside internet access such as schools and crime rates). As for buy, trade, and sell used games freely, I sympathize with you on this one.


 
  This is what I've been saying all along. We agreed on something.
   
  I'm not about to rearrange my life just so I can play video games. And when I say can't pay my bill, it means cutting back on things that are less important like video games/internet.
  Like I said, there's nothing left to say until you educate yourself to see things from other people's point of view,  good luck man.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> They aren't needed. It's evidenced by the fact that they are still doing all the cloud stuff without any of this stuff.
> 
> It's downright ridiculous to say that region locking would only effect a small group. Only 21 countries would have been able to play the Xbox One because of it. More would likely roll out in the future, but plenty would still be left out.


 
  Then I will admit I don't know enough about the consequences of region locking. If it's hurting a large amount of people, I'm definitely against it. I want people to play with, of course. My mind can be changed on these things, ya know.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





romee said:


> This is what I've been saying all along. We agreed on something.
> 
> I'm not about to rearrange my life just so I can play video games. And when I say can't pay my bill, it means cutting back on things that are less important like video games/internet.
> Like I said, there's nothing left to say until you educate yourself to see things from other people's point of view,  good luck man.


 
  I mean, you understand that I could understand what you're saying and you're still not going to like my answer, right? It's not a matter or whether or not I am able to intellectually grasp what you're saying. You're expecting that if I was educated with your point of view, I would see things differently. I think you've done a very good job showing your point of view and I think I have a better understanding now than I did when we started this conversation. With that, I'm not saying you have to rearrange your life. I'm saying there are requirements to the functionality. If it's important to you, you'll meet those requirements. If not, well there is content available to you that you can partake in, but doesn't have that functionality. There is that option now.


----------



## RoMee

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> I mean, you understand that I could understand what you're saying and you're still not going to like my answer, right? It's not a matter or whether or not I am able to intellectually grasp what you're saying. You're expecting that if I was educated with your point of view, I would see things differently. I think you've done a very good job showing your point of view and I think I have a better understanding now than I did when we started this conversation. With that, I'm not saying you have to rearrange your life. I'm saying there are requirements to the functionality. If it's important to you, you'll meet those requirements. If not, well there is content available to you that you can partake in, but doesn't have that functionality. There is that option now.


 
  Than you got your answer. 
  you said:


> I'm asking because I truly don't see an issue and am trying to get my limited brain to understand the other side.


 
   
  Well I just gave you my issues with the XBOX One's DRM. You can either accept this is the reason why I don't want it or you can reject it. 
  If you are truly interested in why most of us hate the DRM policy, than you should just accept the fact that we are not you and we have valid reasons why we don't like/want it in our gaming console. 
  If you look at this from our point of view than you'll see why the XBOX One's DRM does not work for us or for anybody who's in similar situations..


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





romee said:


> Than you got your answer.
> you said:
> 
> Well I just gave you my issues with the XBOX One's DRM. You can either accept this is the reason why I don't want it or reject it.
> ...


 
  This conversation is two separate issues. Functionality and monetization (which contains the DRM issues). If the policies that align with the monetization and DRM allow you to not experience the game in the way it should, I will reject those policies. I have already changed my mind in this conversation about a couple issues.


----------



## RoMee

-NVM- This is going nowhere.
   
  YAY!! Microsoft!


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





romee said:


> Right now you're refusing to understand the effect the policy has on the people on the other side or you don't consider it significant enough to warrant the dislikes but for us it is enough of a reason.


 
   
  I've comprehended everything you've said, so I don't believe I'm refusing to understand your side. I do think that it's unrealistic to think that the only option after comprehension would be to agree with you, though. So maybe it's me not considering it significant enough to be disliked? But I don't think it's that either. I mean I generally don't like the policies meant for pure monetization, but it doesn't mean so much that I will rob myself of the experience. My mind is open to be changed, but I think we've hit a stalemate here.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> Playing a gaming console is not your right. It's a privilege with a cost associated with it and you have to pay into that. If you lose your job and can't pay your internet bill which, in turn, you can't play your console, I would hope that is the least of your problems.


 
   
  See, this is what makes you work the opposite of everyone else. You are a business man.
   
  Playing games is absolutely my right, and if Microsoft wants to take that from me, then why would I ever pay them? I live in Texas. 90% of the state is farmland! Most people don't have internet out here, but a lot of people play game consoles here.
   
  Games are an art, and to revoke someone the right of viewing that art when they are willing to pay for it is just wrong.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





daleb said:


> See, this is what makes you work the opposite of everyone else. You are a business man.
> 
> Playing games is absolutely my right, and if Microsoft wants to take that from me, then why would I ever pay them? I live in Texas. 90% of the state is farmland! Most people don't have internet out here, but a lot of people play game consoles here.


 
  Umm, no. You are not entitled to play video games. You have the option to do so and it comes at a cost and an agreement to play by their rules. If you don't like the rules, you don't have to play, but it is so extremely far from being a right.

 Quote: 





daleb said:


> Games are an art, and to revoke someone the right of viewing that art when they are willing to pay for it is just wrong.


 
  Game are absolutely a form of art. Like all art, there is a creator and it's their responsibility to determine how are audience can view and/or use it unless they release it to public domain. You have absolutely no rights granted to you to see it. This is standard copyright law in the US.
   
  Alright, I have to unsubscribe to this thread for awhile to regain my sanity and get some work done.


----------



## uchihaitachi

Quote: 





daleb said:


> See, this is what makes you work the opposite of everyone else. You are a business man.
> 
> Playing games is absolutely my right, and if Microsoft wants to take that from me, then why would I ever pay them? I live in Texas. 90% of the state is farmland! Most people don't have internet out here, but a lot of people play game consoles here.
> 
> Games are an art, and to revoke someone the right of viewing that art when they are willing to pay for it is just wrong.


 
  Not at all. He is just a man who lives in a capitalist society. His arguments are extremely valid and members here are often misconstruing it as his inability to empathise or sympathise.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> Umm, no. You are not entitled to play video games. You have the option to do so and it comes at a cost and an agreement to play by their rules. If you don't like the rules, you don't have to play, but it is so extremely far from being a right.


 
  I'm sorry, but I completely disagree with you here.


----------



## uchihaitachi

Quote: 





daleb said:


> I'm sorry, but I completely disagree with you here.


 
  Could you explain how you are entitled to play games? It's a product just like any other product out there which you have to pay a fee for.


----------



## daleb

Okay, to understand my logic flow, you must understand I am very anti-business and anti-political. I disagree with many of the laws we have and hate that the whole goal of business is to get rich. I don't believe in art being a product - I feel it is something to be shared with the world. Limiting how art can be shared in any form is a disservice to humanity as a whole - keeping us from progressing  and becoming better people as a whole. "Right" is not necessarily what I'm going for here. I believe that entertainment bringing organizations (Be they profit or non-profit) to bring the joy that is video games, music, film, or literature to the earth. Aiming for money in this way I find evil and corrupt.
   
  I don't believe that they can't aim for money, though. I just disagree with how they go about doing it. While you might be able to call Nintendo and Sony's love for the gamers a "facade", at least they are acting upon it to get themselves money without limiting the art form nearly as much as Microsoft was attempting.


----------



## uchihaitachi

Quote: 





daleb said:


> Okay, to understand my logic flow, you must understand I am very anti-business and anti-political. I disagree with many of the laws we have and hate that the whole goal of business is to get rich. I don't believe in art being a product - I feel it is something to be shared with the world. Limiting how art can be shared in any form is a disservice to humanity as a whole - keeping us from progressing  and becoming better people as a whole. "Right" is not necessarily what I'm going for here. I believe that entertainment bringing organizations (Be they profit or non-profit) to bring the joy that is video games, music, film, or literature to the earth. Aiming for money in this way I find evil and corrupt.
> 
> I don't believe that they can't aim for money, though. I just disagree with how they go about doing it. While you might be able to call Nintendo and Sony's love for the gamers a "facade", at least they are acting upon it to get themselves money without limiting the art form nearly as much as Microsoft was attempting.


 
  I understand your outlook. However, your viewpoint would only be valid if everyone in the world was altruistic and wouldn't free-ride. Somewhat utopian at best no?


----------



## daleb

I know, I was thinking about putting something about that. I wish there was some way my ideal world plan could even fathom working.


----------



## uchihaitachi

Quote: 





daleb said:


> I know, I was thinking about putting something about that. I wish there was some way my ideal world plan could even fathom working.


 
  Even if free-riding and egocentrism could be dealt with, without monetary incentive, this world would be a very very mundane and unproductive place....


----------



## daleb

Well there can be a monetary incentive, its just how you go about presenting it.
   
  Take the Humble Indie Bundle, for example. They get $2 million out of it after having much, much less put in.  Its a great business model, we all get tons of games, we get to donate to charity, and they get the money. Its the business model I wish the entire entertainment industry ran on. Of course, that has tons and tons of problems when there is more than a couple going on at any given time thanks to how we work...
   
  Edit: We are so off topic XD
   
  So did you guys hear Sony is talking to Oculus? We might be seeing the Rift on the PS4 someday... That's enough of a reason for me to get a PS4 if there is any!


----------



## Parall3l

Quote: 





daleb said:


> So did you guys hear Sony is talking to Oculus? We might be seeing the Rift on the PS4 someday... That's enough of a reason for me to get a PS4 if there is any!


 
   
  I heard someone is making pron games for the Rift.


----------



## HalidePisces

daleb said:


> > So the military thing, yeah, I've heard it. Are you affected by it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is America, where everyone tries to make a quick buck if they can get away with it. This drives all of us capitalistic folks a ton.

(I'm actually more of a socialist/communist/hippie/whatever than a capitalist, but your... impassioned response was asking for a set-up.)

I'm not a fan of Microsoft's recent policies, but it's pretty easy to understand why they did what they did. Since most of the people debating lately are from the US and keep referring to it for examples, I'll keep it local. However, a global analogue can be made.

It's a simple numbers game. Deployed members of the armed forces make up about 1% of the US population. Working a business model around 1% of the population doesn't make sense. But what about all the people living in rural areas with shoddy internet access? 90% of Texas maybe farmland, but what percentage of the population does it make up? Most of the US population is concentrated in cities and suburbs, where internet access is more readily available. Microsoft figured it could squeeze enough money from 90% of the market to more than make up for the 10% of the market it alienated. This is within the modus operandi of profit driven businesses, which to be honest, are the majority of businesses.

Region locking for console games is nothing new and has been the standard except for handhelds. It's for similar, if not the same, reasons that DVDs and Blu-Rays have region codes. Surprisingly, it seems to be more common to have region-free consoles now. Nintendo remains the sole offender with the 3DS and the Wii U. I can't find a strong reason for this trend since import gamers like myself, the obvious beneficiaries, are a very small minority. Perhaps it's an acknowledgement of the increasingly global economy where people don't necessarily buy local... even then, that's not a very strong reason.
The operational region lock would've been new. Consoles have generally not been released simultaneously around the world. People in the US haven't really been affected by it since they're usually the second country (after Japan), or more recently the first, to get a new console. The operational lock seems to be an even stronger version of the DVD/BR regional lockout since it doesn't even allow imports. It would've also given Microsoft a stronger grip on supply and demand (read: more money for them and companies who made games for their consoles).

Microsoft's original game plan was to rally Western publishers (they haven't had much luck attracting Japanese publishers) with the promises of more money due to increased market control. Publishers (and to a lesser extent, developers) feel robbed by used games because they're not making money off them. It's always about money. They got too greedy and ambitious and tried to rush things. Downloadable games (and sadly, DLC) have been more prominent. The question is will disc-based games eventually go away, and if so, how?
My personal theory for why Sony didn't follow suit is that the Japanese used game market (and Asia in general) is much stronger. Microsoft seems to have given up on getting a foothold in the East (it's not like they haven't tried; they were unsuccessful for a number of reasons), so it's less likely to care about such. It's in line with no Asian country being part of the initial Xbox One launch. Sony knows its own backyard better, has more stake in it, and didn't want to burn it down. The West reacting badly was just a nice bonus.

Consumer power has been gradually chipped away. Why? Because the content publishers generally hold more power than the content consumers. As such, they are in the position to work things in their favor, even at the expense of consumers. HDCP is a good example of such. The decline of local co-op is another good example (make people buy another console and another copy of the game just so two people in the same room can play together? Cha-ching!). There may be more consumers, but they're not a focused enough lot to rally against their purpose-driven adversaries. The E3 fallout was a pleasant exception, but that was more due to Microsoft making dumb moves.


----------



## gikigill

This is not so much capitalism as it is to rent you a console instead of buying it. MS wants economic rent from it's customers and I would love to see Headfi react when their CD players, DAPs, DACs etc need to be authorised every 24 hours to continue playing music. MS deserve everything they got for this move. If they really wanted customer convenience, there's plenty of ways to go about it. They want complete control over everything even after you have paid them for the console and if they ban you, you can enjoy your expensive Blu Ray player. This was a business decision since Amazon numbers were pretty pathetic and that was not a good indication of the future. 
Capitalism isn't everything it's cracked to be and I'm not here to tell you why.


----------



## Rewkie

That awkward moment when arguing about videogames turns into the struggles of life and art. It's a game...just....a game...


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





rewkie said:


> That awkward moment when arguing about videogames turns into the struggles of life and art. It's a game...just....a game...


 
  Life's just a game, man.


----------



## oqvist

Xbox One is looking strong now.  1 pre order .
   
  But I think they went passed the PS4 on Amazon for their home market so it did have an effect.
  Someone suggested MS was listening to the consumers... That is exactly what they didn´t how on earth could they take the flac during the entire E3 when the **** storm started well before and then revert as late as now to the inevitable!  They wanted to stick with it that´s for sure but the Jimmy Fallon piece where PS 4 was for used games maybe was the final drop. Only ones that listen to the audience this time is Sony. Kind of 180 for last generation actually...


----------



## RoMee

Quote: 





oqvist said:


> Xbox One is looking strong now.  1 pre order .
> 
> But I think they went passed the PS4 on Amazon for their home market so it did have an effect.
> Someone suggested MS was listening to the consumers... That is exactly what they didn´t how on earth could they take the flac during the entire E3 when the **** storm started well before and then revert as late as now to the inevitable!  They wanted to stick with it that´s for sure but the Jimmy Fallon piece where PS 4 was for used games maybe was the final drop. Only ones that listen to the audience this time is Sony. Kind of 180 for last generation actually...


 
  Amazon's ranking is based on what's selling every hour not the total number of sales/preorders.
  The XBOX One went up to #1 because of the initial push after the DRM reversal but the total number still has the PS4 in the top spot.
  I think it's just XBOX fans going back to XBOX after jumping ship to PS4.
   


> Over on their best selling Video Game Products of the year list, however, we can see that the PS4 (which was only available for pre-order since last week) is at number two. The main competitor, the Xbox One (also only available since last week), has made it to the not-too-shabby, but lower, spot of number seven.


 
   
  Microsoft was smart enough to realize people don't want DRM shoved down their throat and finally decide to abandon DRM, this will probably make it pretty close in the states but most people outside the XBOX circle of fanboys already lost faith in the XBOX One and Microsoft, I don't see the XBOX One selling more than the cheaper and more powerful PS4.
   
  And I agree with you, Microsoft wasn't listening to gamers, it was the terrible preorders, it was the potential loss of money, it was shareholders seeing their money go down the drain if they continue with DRM, because if they was listening to gamers/consumers they would had changed it after the reveal. With big company like Microsoft money dictate decisions.


----------



## HalidePisces

gikigill said:


> This is not so much capitalism as it is to rent you a console instead of buying it. MS wants economic rent from it's customers



Setting up revenue enhancing streams... isn't that pretty much an aspect of capitalism? It makes you marvelously wealthier while exploiting consumers twice over. I'm not selling you this thing, I'm renting/granting a limited usage license to you... all the same. If you can get away with it, then why not?

Microsoft (along with Adobe and others) have begun rolling out subscription-based software to earn more revenue. There was major backlash over the change, but they've been successful. Microsoft thought it could apply something similar to gaming, which had already begun shifting towards online DRM. Microsoft learned they couldn't do so. But they (and other companies) will likely learn to tailor their DRM/revenue enhancing paradigms to different markets. The movie and TV crowd are easily cowed in one way. Gamers will require different methods to be maximally exploited. I'm sure there were people working on increasing profits from music and shifting more control to the hands of the distributors... oh wait, digital distribution minimizes distribution costs to nearly nothing. Distributing it in a DRM-friendly format allows consumers to lose access to it easier. Ever weakening consumer protection laws means buyers have little recourse other than to buy it again. Remember, you not paying for a song but rather a specific form of access to listen to it. If it's not longer accessible for whatever reason (tied to an old device that broke down, old playback format no longer being supported, etc.), that's too bad! What are you going to do about it?


----------



## StudioSound

If I was buying one, it would be the PS4.

The hardware is considerably faster, it has a sleeker design with an integrated power supply (I hate the brick Xboxes use) the exclusives that Sony have are generally a lot more appealing to me, and it's a cheaper system.


The DRM debacle with the Xbox One is enough to have me avoid that system, especially when the hardware is slower, they are far too focused on non-gaming features, it costs $100 more, and it _requires_ a camera and microphone to be pointed at me and active at all times in my living room - it's constantly listening for "Xbox on". (and whatever else the NSA wants to see/hear...)

The TV features are laughable to me - it's 2013, who even watches television any more!? It feels like a system designed for 2005 - I stream content or watch Blu-rays. I haven't had cable/satellite for years now.
I think the design is ugly, the box is huge, and it's going to be a mess of wires with the power brick and Kinect coming out the back of it.


But I will likely stick to my PC.

I got rid of my PS3/360 years ago, because I was fed up with 720p graphics at terrible framerates. Everything on PC is 1080p, locked to 60fps, with great image quality. (16x anisotropic filtering, _real_ anti-aliasing)
On PC, I get digital downloads of games on day 1, at 1/3 or less the cost of the console versions via Steam, or even less if I want to wait a month or two for sales.

Steam's DRM is very relaxed and unobtrusive - the only time it's ever an annoyance is when a game gets unlocked in another region a week before it does here. (Civilization V was the last time I remember that happening though)
The games are cheap enough that I don't care about whether I get to resell them or lend them to friends - I pay less for games on Steam than I do when I buy a console game and trade it in for cash once I have finished it anyway - and I get to keep it.

These days I find myself having less time for gaming anyway, so why buy a new system when I already have a backlog of games to complete on the PC?
It will be interesting to see how my current PC handles next-gen ports with its GTX 570. That has lasted me a few years now, and I haven't felt the need to upgrade at all.
From what I've seen of the next-gen games so far, the majority just look like current generation console titles do when running on a PC anyway, so the 570 may even last me all the way through this generation of consoles too. (that Remedy game sure looks nice though)


I think I'm just done buying a box dedicated solely to playing games. My PC does everything that I need; audio, video, games, internet, work.
And it's all hooked up to my living room TV, so I'm not sat looking at a tiny monitor.


----------



## daleb

I think that your graphics card will last you about 3 years into the next gen.
   
  I, on the other hand, have recently switched away from PC gaming. I find that consoles are just way more relaxing then a PC, so I'll probably pick up the PS4 at some point, especially if it takes Oculus Rift input.
   
  I'm also a huge Nintendo lover, so I need to really pick up the Wii U at some point.


----------



## daigo

I'll probably get a PS4 after they refresh the design of it in a few years.  Having owned PS1 through PS3, may as well continue the tradition, though I don't use my PS3 that often currently.


----------



## StudioSound

daleb said:


> I think that your graphics card will last you about 3 years into the next gen.


The consoles are a fixed spec and are essentially x86 PCs with integrated graphics this time around. If my card works well with ports at the start of the generation, it's likely to last throughout - but I will probably want to upgrade at some point anyway.
Once we see some good 4K displays (probably once the OLED ones launch in a couple of years) I will be upgrading to one of them and will need a new card to handle that.



daleb said:


> I, on the other hand, have recently switched away from PC gaming. I find that consoles are just way more relaxing then a PC


Well as I said, I have my PC hooked up to my main TV. For a lot of games, I'm just using a wireless 360 controller and Steam's "big picture" mode, so it's essentially a console experience, without the performance drawbacks.

I can of course still use keyboard and mouse, and there are tools such as XPadder for games that do not have official controller support. (gamepad emulates a keyboard & mouse)



daleb said:


> I'm also a huge Nintendo lover, so I need to really pick up the Wii U at some point.


I think it's a real shame about what happened with the Wii (complete abandonment of core gamers to chase a new market) and that Nintendo still haven't embraced online play with the Wii U.
There are probably enough good games, and games with good multiplayer that I would have bought one by now if they weren't all local multiplayer only. As an adult, I just don't have the opportunity to have three other friends over to play games, but we can meet up online fairly easily. NSMB U multiplayer looks chaotic in the best way possible, but I won't ever have the opportunity to play that.

I did recently pick up a 3DS after a few games pushed me over the tipping point of saying that I was going to avoid handheld systems from now on and just stick to iOS, so that's my Nintendo fix for now.
I was happy enough with iOS for how little mobile gaming I did, but then there hasn't been anything that interested me since Ghost Trick was released.


----------



## daleb

My tastes are way off from the average gamer - there was an entire 3 games on the xbox 360 I found enjoyable. On the other hand, there's 20 something games I want to play on the wii (sadly, I only own 6 of them). Plus I don't like online multiplayer gaming (LAN parties for the win!) so Nintendo has always had a great policy for me.
   
  Quote: 





> The consoles are a fixed spec and are essentially x86 PCs with integrated graphics this time around. If my card works well with ports at the start of the generation, it's likely to last throughout - but I will probably want to upgrade at some point anyway.


 
  Its not that the specs increase, its that the optimization gets better. Its why graphics improve over the generation considerably. Watch Dogs is only using 2 gigs of the PS4s RAM, to boot. Another 5 gigs for the developers to play with and they can't even use it. This generation is so much higher then last generation in specs its insane. It'll be at the point a fully optimized PS4 can't really improve too much on graphics.


----------



## tdockweiler

I'll buy whatever one has Fallout 4. Xbox One is too expensive IMO. I almost never buy a console at release date and wait to see which one has games I want.
  Hopefully the Xbox One has as many good games as the 360.
   
  BTW I hate these stupid console exclusives! Don't like how only the PS4 is getting Half Life 3.


----------



## oqvist

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> I'll buy whatever one has Fallout 4. Xbox One is too expensive IMO. I almost never buy a console at release date and wait to see which one has games I want.
> Hopefully the Xbox One has as many good games as the 360.
> 
> BTW I hate these stupid console exclusives! Don't like how only the PS4 is getting Half Life 3.


 

 I suppose this is a joke but Valve who makes and own the Half Life franchise won´t even release Half Life 3 on their own coming steam box or on their steam service 
  It´s the last title you ever have to worry going console exclusive.
   
  Fallout 4 will be multi platform. You don´t need to buy a console for that. If they are anything like the previous you have to have balls of steels to buy the console versions.
   
  the best strategy is of course wait until you actually start to see games you are interested in. A lot of Wii U owners which consoles collect dust.
   
  Based on the line up I personally don´t find a must title in the launch game line up for either PS 4 or Xbox One. It would be some of the new IPs then


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> I'll buy whatever one has Fallout 4. Xbox One is too expensive IMO. I almost never buy a console at release date and wait to see which one has games I want.
> Hopefully the Xbox One has as many good games as the 360.
> 
> BTW I hate these stupid console exclusives! Don't like how only the PS4 is getting Half Life 3.


 
  Bethesda is really, really loving the PS4. Fallout 4 is sure to be on the PS4, maybe even before the xbox one.
   
  The PS4 is insanely easy to program for compared to any of the last gen consoles. I don't think this generation will have any of the problems the last one did


----------



## Azenis

Have always wished for an Xbox because I can integrate my windows phone with it through Xbox smartglas However when they announces that xbox one had the DRM and always on I was disappointed.

nut luckily Microsoft have announced that they will remove it again


----------



## conquerator2

Quote: 





studiosound said:


> The consoles are a fixed spec and are essentially x86 PCs with *integrated graphics* this time around. If my card works well with ports at the start of the generation, it's likely to last throughout - but I will probably want to upgrade at some point anyway.
> Once we see some good 4K displays (probably once the OLED ones launch in a couple of years) I will be upgrading to one of them and will need a new card to handle that.
> Well as I said, I have my PC hooked up to my main TV. For a lot of games, I'm just using a wireless 360 controller and Steam's "big picture" mode, so it's essentially a console experience, without the performance drawbacks.


 
   
  If you mean integrated graphics, as if on a single chip, then yes.
  If you mean integrated as a weak CPU integrated GFX, then I think the modified HD7870 in the PS4 disagrees...


----------



## daleb

Oh jeez, I didn't even notice you put integrated graphics... You are vastly underestimating next gen specs...


----------



## seetheforest

My original 360 had the RROD and I've stayed away from Xbox since then. It's too bad because I do prefer the Xbox's controller and UI. I'll most likely go PS4, but I'm planning to wait a while before purchasing. There are never enough games in the library during the first year of a game console. I'll probably wait for a price drop and a handfull of games I'm interested in to come out. I've still got plenty of games to go through in the current gen.


----------



## daleb

I think I'm the only person who prefers the PS controller design.


----------



## uchihaitachi

Quote: 





daleb said:


> I think I'm the only person who prefers the PS controller design.


 
  Do you have smaller than average hands by any chance?


----------



## daleb

Nope. I just like having my thumbs line up on the bottom instead of in the strange way the xbox lines it up.
 Probably has to do with I grew up with PS and switched to the 360 this generation. I'm very glad to be switching back, I feel like I've been away from home this entire time.


----------



## uchihaitachi

Quote: 





daleb said:


> Nope. I just like having my thumbs line up on the bottom instead of in the strange way the xbox lines it up.


 
  I find the PS controller quite fiddly and awkward.


----------



## chewy4

The layout on the dualshock controllers doesn't make much sense to me.
   
  It made sense at first when they added the thumbsticks since you were still using the dpad for most things and the thumbsticks were secondary. But now that the left thumbstick is used far more than the dpad it should be in the more ergonomic primary position. They just decided to stick with their original design instead where the thumbsticks are just like an add-on.
   
  Xbox controllers were basically designed for games where you have your left thumb on the thumbstick and your right thumb on the buttons most the time. The design makes a lot of sense.


----------



## WhiteCrow

Quote: 





daleb said:


> I think I'm the only person who prefers the PS controller design.


 

 no, you're not. my hands are symmetrical to each other; why is the controller not?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Xbox analog placement is the most natural, and the most comfortable. It still irks me that the Dualshock's left analog is on the bottom. It's not practical, as you basically have to 'reach' with your thumb at almost all times. The left analog is for movement, and movement is something you do the vast majority of the time. The right analog is mostly for aiming or camera control. You use face buttons much more than that for the majority of games out there. Wii U's controller.... really messed that up.


----------



## laon

I like PS4 controller scheme better still thank you. Maybe it got to do with how I've played like that with analog stick my whole life since PSX era.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My first analog was the Sega Saturn's NiGHTS analog controller. Left analog was on the top left. As was the Dreamcast's analog. The only analog I have ever used with a lower analog was Playstation controllers. I don't have a problem with them, but they're just not as comfortable or practical.


----------



## laon

Saturn was never big here (though Genesis was) so I'm not familiar with it but by god, these thing
   

   
  makes original Xbox controller

   
  looks cute lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's actually not as big as it looks. It's about as wide as the playstation controller. But it is tall. And VERY comfortable.


----------



## conquerator2

I take no issues with the PS4 controller. The only flaw has been fixed by ruberizing the thumbstick so I am happy.
Also the build quality seems to be improved


----------



## oqvist

DS4 appears to be a bit bigger and phatter which can only be a good thing. Whereas the MS Xbox One controller seem to have shrunk which can only be a bad thing lol
   
  The DS 3 because the sticks are on the wrong place you have to hold in your finger tips which make it easy to drop particularly for racing titles lol.
  But it´s of higher quality then the MS controllers despite many drops they never lost any precision. MS truly can´t build hardware their analogue sticks loose their precision in no time despite no drops.


----------



## HalidePisces

uchihaitachi said:


> daleb said:
> 
> 
> > I think I'm the only person who prefers the PS controller design.
> ...









In all seriousness, I think the preference between the Playstation and Xbox style controllers stem from whether one uses the digital joypad or analog joystick more often. From the look of the WiiU, I think it falls a bit more in line with the PS-style.

EDIT: Looking back, I think the N64 controller managed to cater to both quite well... even if people found its shape rather odd.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





> no, you're not. my hands are symmetrical to each other; why is the controller not?


 
  That could be another reason - having my hands in 2 completely different positions feels incredibly strange on a controller. Probably another reason I don't like the wii controllers.


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





daleb said:


> That could be another reason - having my hands in 2 completely different positions feels incredibly strange on a controller. Probably another reason I don't like the wii controllers.


 
  But with the Playstation controller they are in different positions for the vast majority of the time in any game that isn't an FPS.


----------



## daleb

In what way? Your palm sits in the same position on each one, and the buttons are symmetrical. No, you don't have it exactly the same way, I guess, but you don't have it so one hand is working with an analog stick way up at the top of the controller and one way at the bottom.


----------



## StudioSound

conquerator2 said:


> If you mean integrated graphics, as if on a single chip, then yes.
> If you mean integrated as a weak CPU integrated GFX, then I think the modified HD7870 in the PS4 disagrees...


1.84 TFLOPS is more in line with a 7850 (1.76 TFLOPS) than a 7870 (2.56 TFLOPS)

These are low-end parts for a gaming PC. (note: you cannot compare AMD FLOPS to Nvidia FLOPS)



whitecrow said:


> no, you're not. my hands are symmetrical to each other; why is the controller not?


The natural resting position on a Dual Shock is with your thumbs over the dpad and buttons. You have to extend your thumbs to use the analog sticks.

The Xbox controller places the left analog stick under your thumb, as it is the primary control method rather than the dpad.
The Wii U places both sticks in the natural resting position for your thumbs. I haven't held one, but it seems like it would be awkward if you aren't playing shooters.


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





daleb said:


> In what way? Your palm sits in the same position on each one, and the buttons are symmetrical. No, you don't have it exactly the same way, I guess, but you don't have it so one hand is working with an analog stick way up at the top of the controller and one way at the bottom.


 
  When you have one thumb on the left thumbstick and one thumb on the buttons it's not symmetrical.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





studiosound said:


> The natural resting position on a Dual Shock is with your thumbs over the dpad and buttons. You have to extend your thumbs to use the analog sticks.


 
  My resting position is definitely with both thumbs on the analog sticks. My thumbs point right at each other when I pick up the controller. Whenever I pick up the xbox 360 controller, my default position is the D-pad and right analog stick. Okay, it's not that, its the triggers. I like having one finger for each trigger, and with the xbox controller, you have to use only one finger for each side, resting on the main trigger.
   
   
  Quote: 





> When you have one thumb on the left thumbstick and one thumb on the buttons it's not symmetrical.


 
  The PS controller is small enough that it might as well be XD
   
  I just went and picked up the PS2 controller, and, yes, it is slightly too small. But as long as your  hands aren't bigger then average, it isn't uncomfortable at all, especially compared to the xbox controllers, which are just so strangely designed...


----------



## StudioSound

daleb said:


> My resting position is definitely with both thumbs on the analog sticks. My thumbs point right at each other when I pick up the controller. Whenever I pick up the xbox 360 controller, my default position is the D-pad and right analog stick. Okay, it's not that, its the triggers. I like having one finger for each trigger, and with the xbox controller, you have to use only one finger for each side, resting on the main trigger.


I hate to break it to you, but I think you have small hands and/or are holding the controllers wrong. The grips on both controllers are tapered in such a way to place your thumbs over the "outside" controls as your neutral resting position - your thumbs will be at roughly 45 degrees when using the analog stick on a DualShock.


----------



## conquerator2

studiosound said:


> 1.84 TFLOPS is more in line with a 7850 (1.76 TFLOPS) than a 7870 (2.56 TFLOPS)
> 
> These are low-end parts for a gaming PC. (note: you cannot compare AMD FLOPS to Nvidia FLOPS).




I respectfully disagree with the low end part... They are solid mid Class cards... Plus I don't really understand why can't I directly compare AND and Nvidia cards...sounds like a fan boy or superficial PC race comment...


----------



## Parall3l

Quote: 





conquerator2 said:


> I respectfully disagree with the low end part... They are solid mid Class cards... Plus I don't really understand why can't I directly compare AND and Nvidia cards...sounds like a fan boy or superficial PC race comment...


 
  Dat auto-corret
   
  I assume it's due to driver differences?


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





studiosound said:


> I hate to break it to you, but I think you have small hands and/or are holding the controllers wrong. The grips on both controllers are tapered in such a way to place your thumbs over the "outside" controls as your neutral resting position - your thumbs will be at roughly 45 degrees when using the analog stick on a DualShock.


 

 The average hand length for a male is 7.44 inches. Mine is 7.3. Barely under average. The only correct way to hold a controller is the way that is more natural for you. The correct way for me is holding it so my thumbs are on each analog stick by default.


----------



## uchihaitachi

Quote: 





daleb said:


> The average hand length for a male is 7.44 inches. Mine is 7.3. Barely under average. The only correct way to hold a controller is the way that is more natural for you. The correct way for me is holding it so my thumbs are on each analog stick by default.


 
  Are you ambidextrous by any chance?


----------



## daleb

Well, that depends. If being ambidextrous can mean that your hand writing is just as bad for both hands, then yes, I am. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  If not, then I'm just left handed.


----------



## uchihaitachi

Quote: 





daleb said:


> Well, that depends. If being ambidextrous can mean that your hand writing is just as bad for both hands, then yes, I am.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Several of my friends who prefer the ps controller are either left handed or ambidextrous. Don't know why there is such a correlation but anyways...


----------



## conquerator2

Quote: 





uchihaitachi said:


> Several of my friends who prefer the ps controller are either left handed or ambidextrous. Don't know why there is such a correlation but anyways...


 
  I am also ambidextrous...
  And I prefer the PS3 controller...
  Beats me then


----------



## StudioSound

conquerator2 said:


> I respectfully disagree with the low end part... They are solid mid Class cards... Plus I don't really understand why can't I directly compare AND and Nvidia cards...sounds like a fan boy or superficial PC race comment...


It's not a fanboy comment - back when the 360 launched, AMD FLOPS were effectively double Nvidia's numbers, for the same level of performance from the cards. So a 2 TFLOP AMD card would perform roughly the same as a 1 TFLOP Nvidia card.

It's not a 2:1 ratio now, but AMD's numbers are always quite a bit higher than Nvidia's for the same level of gaming performance. (maybe 50% now?)


----------



## daleb

It's still not low end, that's still a great mid-level card.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I wonder how well my GTX680m performs on my laptop teraflop-wise...


----------



## uchihaitachi

Quote: 





conquerator2 said:


> I am also ambidextrous...
> And I prefer the PS3 controller...
> Beats me then


 
  We should perform a world-wise survey on this XD


----------



## daleb

A regular GTX 680 is 3.09 teraflops.
   
  According to review sites, the 680m is the same as the 580 in power... If that's true, its only 1.51 teraflops.
   
   
  Quote: 





> It's not a 2:1 ratio now, but AMD's numbers are always quite a bit higher than Nvidia's for the same level of gaming performance.


 
   
  This does make ATI work insanely well for professional use, like in CAD software and etc. Nvidia just doesn't work at all with CAD at higher FPS. So, really, we don't want this ration to be falling. That mean's ATI is losing its ability as a professional graphics card. Unless its Nvidia getting better, which would also be good, but mostly pointless as they don't need can't to aim at professional software unless they had a huge jump in flops.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's worked incredibly well with everything I've ran at it at near max, give or take some Anti-aliasing. Even BF3 runs at mostly 60fps near all max.


----------



## daleb

Well 1.5 teraflops is nothing to sneeze at at all. Its why I'm not concerned about next generation graphics at all. At how high this next generation is, I don't even know if we'll be able to come up with something the PS4 won't be able to handle... Well, except SkyFilm.


----------



## StudioSound

mad lust envy said:


> I wonder how well my GTX680m performs on my laptop teraflop-wise...


1.9 TFLOPS according to Wikipedia. But as I said previously, Nvidia TFLOPS are not equal to AMD TFLOPS.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





uchihaitachi said:


> Several of my friends who prefer the ps controller are either left handed or ambidextrous. Don't know why there is such a correlation but anyways...


 

 Something strange to note here, Less then 0.7% of Japan is left handed, yet they all prefer the playstation to xbox 
   
  On the other hand, 13% of Canada is left handed, and the PS3 almost sold double there compared to the Xbox 360.


----------



## HalidePisces

daleb said:


> uchihaitachi said:
> 
> 
> > Several of my friends who prefer the ps controller are either left handed or ambidextrous. Don't know why there is such a correlation but anyways...
> ...



For the record, I am left-handed and do prefer the PS-style controller over the XB-style controller. Though I think this has more to do with the fact that most games I play use the digital joypad more than the analog thumbstick (Katamari Damacy was the most analog thumbstick intensive game I played). And I think it also has to do with the PS-style controller being around longer (it's based off the SNES controller).

However, I think console sales depend more on its games than its controllers. The PS3 doing much better than the X360 in Canada is in line with a recent article Ars Technica did on sales of 7th-generation consoles around the world. In the UK and the US, the X360 will pass the Wii soon in total consoles sold while the PS3 is lagging. But in Japan and the rest of the world, the PS3 is right behind the Wii in sales while the X360 is the one far behind. Obviously, people in different areas of the world will have different tastes and the sales will reflect that. The amusing thing is despite the global success of the Wii compared to the regional successes of the PS3 and X360, when it comes to their successors the WiiU tends to get ignored while people debate the PS4 and XB1.


----------



## daleb

I've always seen Nintendo as a non-debateable issue. You're going to get the console at some point, because its Nintendo. The other consoles/PC are the one you have to decide between.
   
  I really don't understand why the Xbox is so popular here in the US. The only thing it has is FPS games... Is that really the only genre most American gamers are willing to play? That makes me really sad, because they will never truly get to understand games as what they are (and that goes for playing any single genre).


----------



## conquerator2

Quote: 





daleb said:


> I've always seen Nintendo as a non-debateable issue. You're going to get the console at some point, because its Nintendo. The other consoles/PC are the one you have to decide between.
> 
> *I really don't understand why the Xbox is so popular here in the US. The only thing it has is FPS games... Is that really the only genre most American gamers are willing to play? That makes me really sad, because they will never truly get to understand games as what they are (and that goes for playing any single genre).*


 
   
  I guess its a bit of nationalism as well. The same way Asian (well mostly Japan anyway) folks wont buy a foreign (Microsoft) console, the Americans buy their national console as well, although to a lesser extent (there are still some PS/WII consoles sold in the US, whereas in Japan the X360 number is close to none)
  I think the games come as the 2nd criteria and I guess US prefers shooting or just dont like the PS exclusives (duh! I like them) 
   
  I do share the same view as you though, I think the Sony console offers a better mixture of exclusives (now adding new IPs and Indie games into the mix as well)
   
  Saying that, I owned the Xbox 360 first but then bought the PS3 the day it came out and never returned to the Xbox again (save for an occasional Kinect fun game)
   
  With the next gen, I am getting the PS4 first and willl see if the XBONE offers any benefits later...


----------



## daleb

Of what I have heard from friends, it might also have a lot to do with them feeling the sony network can't be trusted, and that the online multiplayer just isn't as good. Though, that pretty much returns to being they only use it for FPS games...


----------



## conquerator2

Quote: 





daleb said:


> Of what I have heard from friends, it might also have a lot to do with them feeling the sony network can't be trusted, and that the online multiplayer just isn't as good. Though, that pretty much returns to being they only use it for FPS games...


 
   
  What? Their network is pretty good IMO.
  The first year or two it was definitely unstable and underwhelming but I dont find any issues with it lately.
  Save for the occasional maintenance, its running nicely


----------



## HalidePisces

conquerator2 said:


> daleb said:
> 
> 
> > I've always seen Nintendo as a non-debateable issue. You're going to get the console at some point, because its Nintendo. The other consoles/PC are the one you have to decide between.
> ...




Medal of Duty: Modern Battlefield!

It does seem the FPS genre is very popular in the US. The first XBox had Halo, which elevated the FPS genre on consoles so I'm guessing there's some loyalty there as the series has been a Microsoft exclusive. And even before that, many popular PC games in the US were FPS games (Alien vs. Predator, CounterStrike, Quake, etc.). Also, games with a first person view / quasi-FPS games (the newer Fallout games) tend to be big. I think the general American opinion is that the first person view is awesome because it's more immersive/realistic/"you are the character". Oh.. and there's the realistic shooting and gore.

I do feel sad as well, not only because the rampant popularity of FPS games here has pushed other genres out a bit (SRPGs, fighters, and shoot-em-ups are now niche genres; yet another reason why I import) but because it's an easy target for game companies looking for a quick buck (lowering game quality and getting people used to that level is not good for the future of games).

As for the nationalism part, I think that's only a small part of it. The Wii is neck-and-neck with the X360 in the US. I think Microsoft doesn't really understand how to appeal to the Japanese, both developers and gamers. It's not like Microsoft hasn't been trying, but I they've been going with a "one-size-fits-all" mentality and they're not understanding why it's not working. For example, physical copies of games are a big thing in the Japanese market (limited edition releases with all those bonus _physical_ goodies is common standard). The original XB1 sales model spits in the face of that. Nintendo and Sony also have a bit more experience in adapting to foreign game markets since they've been in the game (horrid pun, I know) longer.


----------



## daleb

Something I find funny, is that "X1" (which is what the gamers in Japan are calling it), when said outloud in Japanese, is pronounced the same as the word for "getting divorced."


----------



## uzunaruto

Does the ps4 have any really cool looking games planned for launch announced recently?


----------



## conquerator2

Quote: 





uzunaruto said:


> Does the ps4 have any really cool looking games planned for launch announced recently?


 
   
  No Ninja Storms to run by any time soon
   
  You can see all of it here - http://www.ign.com/wikis/playstation-4/Playstation_4_Launch_Titles


----------



## uzunaruto

How'd you know i Like Ninjas? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Thanks for the list though, I'll probably wait to get the ps4 then, even though Watch Dogs and Drive Club have had my interest for quite a while now.


----------



## reddyxm

Quote: 





daleb said:


> I've always seen Nintendo as a non-debateable issue. You're going to get the console at some point, because its Nintendo. The other consoles/PC are the one you have to decide between.
> 
> I really don't understand why the Xbox is so popular here in the US. The only thing it has is FPS games... Is that really the only genre most American gamers are willing to play? That makes me really sad, because they will never truly get to understand games as what they are (and that goes for playing any single genre).


 
   
  Xbox is really popular with FPS games especially COD and Halo. Many people like the Xbox because their controller feels best with FPS games.


----------



## WhiteCrow

Quote: 





uzunaruto said:


> Does the ps4 have any really cool looking games planned for launch announced recently?


 

 1886 the order. a TPS adventure game set in steampunk London in the 1800's


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





reddyxm said:


> Xbox is really popular with FPS games especially COD and Halo.


 
  I know, but I was saying I'm sad FPS games are so dominant in the market. No genre should make up so much of the market, we have missed out on so much because of it.


----------



## daleb

And today I bring good news: Don Mattrick is stepping down from Microsoft, and he is leaving to go be CEO of Zynga.
   
http://www.justpushstart.com/2013/07/xbox-head-don-mattrick-steps-down-welcomed-to-zynga/
   
  All my yes.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Zynga? DAFUQ


----------



## conquerator2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Zynga? DAFUQ


 
  It might be just a rumor, but it is a likely one.
   
  (Also, didnt know you had an IGN account but saw you in the comments... I guess you learn something new every day.)


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Zynga? DAFUQ


 

 I know, that's what I'm wondering. Maybe hes planning on filing the company for bankruptcy and giving himself a check or something, who knows. The Zynga part is just a rumor, though, so maybe he is going somewhere else.
   
  Oh, and you know how they said everyone on xbox live gets free games like Halo 3 and assassins creed? They are only giving out xbox live arcade games for now. The free game this month is "Defense Grid: The Awakening."


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

conquerator2 said:


> It might be just a rumor, but it is a likely one.
> 
> (Also, didnt know you had an IGN account but saw you in the comments... I guess you learn something new every day.)




Lol, yeah. I don't frequently post there though. IGN is a den of ignorance in the comment section. usually all people do is bitch and complain about games or whatever article is written.


----------



## uzunaruto

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Lol, yeah. I don't frequently post there though. IGN is a *den of ignorance* in the comment section. usually all people do is bitch and complain about games or whatever article is written.


 
  Pretty accurate description of IGN if i do say so myself. Nice one
   
   
   


whitecrow said:


> 1886 the order. a TPS adventure game set in steampunk London in the 1800's


 

  What does "TPS" stand for?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Third person shooter, i.e. Gears of War, Uncharted, Mass Effect... aka, cover based shooters. You can see your characters.


----------



## daleb

Don Mattrick has made a statement on leaving to go to Zynga:
   
  “I joined Zynga because I believe that Mark’s pioneering vision and mission to connect the world through games is just getting started,” Mattrick said in a statement. “Zynga is a great business that has yet to realize its full potential.”


----------



## uzunaruto

Ah got it, Thnanks. Couldnt figure out what the "T" stood for 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The order looks cool sorta gives of a Bioshock inifnite type vibe to me...


----------



## daleb

So, can you plug in any 1/8th inch jack headphones into the PS4 controller? Can any other console do that? o.O


----------



## maddmike71

Rougegeek here's one very big reason Microsofts DRM policy was garbage. Search for google balloon internet and you'll see what they are trying to do, here is a line from the story. The project is still in very early stages but its ultimate goal is to narrow the divide between the 2.2 billion people that have internet access and the 4.8 billion that don’t.
   
  That alone says Microsoft was not catering to customers since I'm willing to bet some of those 4.8 billion own a PS4 or Xbox 360.


----------



## daleb

Project Loon is an amazing feat of engineering, which already works in New Zealand. I can't wait for the future!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

daleb said:


> So, can you plug in any 1/8th inch jack headphones into the PS4 controller? Can any other console do that? o.O




I wouldn't want to, as I highly doubt audio taken from the controller would have virtual surround... unless it's in game like Battlefield 3, which has some mild headphone surround, which I found... nowhere near the level of vitual surround dsp devices, but YMMV.

I'd still take my audio from the spdif out on the back of these consoles to convert into Dolby headphone. Unlike Nintendo, I highly doubt Sony and Microsoft would get rid of Dolby and DTS encoders and just go with PCM only. Nintendo in it's attempt to save itse;f money, alienated people like me. I can't get virtual surround on the Wii U. Until a 3rd party makes a device capable of outputting virtual surround from PCM signals...


----------



## StudioSound

daleb said:


> So, can you plug in any 1/8th inch jack headphones into the PS4 controller? Can any other console do that? o.O


The Wii U gamepad does that.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I can't get virtual surround on the Wii U.


 
  What game are on a Nintendo console that you could use virtual surround for? Unless they're making another Metroid Prime :O


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not sure, but any game canbenefit from virtual surround, as long as it's not a 2d side scroller or something.


----------



## lightningfarron

i would buy ps4 over the xbox because i have psp,ps1,ps2,ps3 and ps vita so buying an xbox one as my next gen console would just doesnt feel right for me
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  another reason would be because i like to play game from japan and sometimes they would just release it for the ps only.


----------



## kbal

Right now, I feel like I'm going to go for PS4  for the same reasons as lightningfarron, but can anyone answer these two questions?
  Will next gen include many split screen games (I know that the controller has the light bar to display sides and the headphone port really makes it seem like a great thing for split screen but nothing has really been shown off)?
  And does anyone know if Ratchet and Clank will make an appearance, especially given the fact that Insomniac have made a game for Microsoft?


----------



## jfletcher68

As it stands right now i'm leaning towards the ps4.  The main reason is because of some of the games such as Kingdom hearts 3, final fantasy, infamous, and prototype.  Another reason is because i don't really trust microsoft to not slowly implement some of the features that they did away with.


----------



## daleb

I don't remember if we've talked about this, but did anyone notice how Microsoft has added a clause to their stuff saying you can't do class action lawsuits? We will specifically have to agree to this as we get the patch getting rid of the DRM... I'm not exactly trusting of this, either...
   
  Edit: Hmm, so the agreement has been there since 2011... Huh... And its not just Microsoft, its pretty much every big name company... That's really disconcerting.


----------



## conquerator2

Quote: 





kbal said:


> Right now, I feel like I'm going to go for PS4  for the same reasons as lightningfarron, but can anyone answer these two questions?
> Will next gen include many split screen games (I know that the controller has the light bar to display sides and the headphone port really makes it seem like a great thing for split screen but nothing has really been shown off)?
> And does anyone know if Ratchet and Clank will make an appearance, especially given the fact that Insomniac have made a game for Microsoft?


 
  My answer to boh is "I hope" 
  There area few good, fun split-screen games for the current consoles (LEGO games are fun, sports games, racing games, recetnly the RaC Gladiator/Deadlocked and more) so I would guess there will be some split-screen gaming preserved ino the next-gen.
  As for a new RaC game, that would sure be awesome. I would think that from the Insomniac standpoint, they may have to do that in the future anyway. Doesn seem like their other games will be as successful as the RaC used to be. Would be awesome definitely.


----------



## Dave Zember

Neither. It's a downgrade


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





dave zember said:


> Neither. It's a downgrade coming from a GTX 680.


 
   
  Who are you talking to?
   
   
  Quote: 





> Rougegeek here's one very big reason Microsofts DRM policy was garbage.


 
  Without that comma, I thought you were saying RogueGeek was the reason XD


----------



## HalidePisces

daleb said:


> I don't remember if we've talked about this, but did anyone notice how Microsoft has added a clause to their stuff saying you can't do class action lawsuits? We will specifically have to agree to this as we get the patch getting rid of the DRM... I'm not exactly trusting of this, either...
> 
> Edit: Hmm, so the agreement has been there since 2011... Huh... And its not just Microsoft, its pretty much every big name company... That's really disconcerting.



http://consumerist.com/2012/10/17/will-opting-out-of-ebay-arbitration-clause-get-my-account-deleted/

Yup, that's been around for a while. I think Steam got the most flack for it if I recall since they were one of the earliest adopters. Silly daleb, thinking consumer protection laws actually hold weight.


I've read that the XB1 only has HDMI and no component video output... is this true?


----------



## daleb

Yes, there is no way to play it in standard definition. Same goes for PS4. I don't have an HD TV 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Also, the Xbox One can't read any kind of normal headphones in anyway. You have to guy special headsets made just for it.


----------



## HalidePisces

daleb said:


> Yes, there is no way to play it in standard definition. Same goes for PS4. I don't have an HD TV
> 
> Also, the Xbox One can't read any kind of normal headphones in anyway. You have to guy special headsets made just for it.



http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/158916-sony-confirms-that-the-ps4-will-support-analog-output

Ah crap... did you really have to do that, Sony?

Component is able to support 1080p and above, it's just that Hollywood and the rest of the video industry hates it because it has no support for DRM such as HDCP. Guess they scored another victory, eh? There's always the HMDI-to-component converter route if you lack the funds for an HD TV.


----------



## StudioSound

halidepisces said:


> Component is able to support 1080p and above, it's just that Hollywood and the rest of the video industry hates it because it has no support for DRM such as HDCP. Guess they scored another victory, eh? There's always the HMDI-to-component converter route if you lack the funds for an HD TV.


The quality of component video is terrible though - particularly for gaming due to its subsampled chroma, and HDMI has been around since 2003. DVI has been around even longer than that, and is compatible with HDMI.

If you really have an HDMI or DVI equipped display which does not support HDCP, there are HDCP strippers available.
If you can afford to buy a $400 console, you probably already have an HDTV.

The Xbox One doesn't support analog either.


----------



## daleb

Well, I actually am not buying a next gen console for quite some time, so I'll have to buy an hdtv when that time comes.


----------



## HalidePisces

daleb said:


> Well, I actually am not buying a next gen console for quite some time, so I'll have to buy an hdtv when that time comes.


The WiiU still has built-in component outputs. You can probably put off getting an HDTV a bit longer if you're going to grab the WiiU first.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





halidepisces said:


> The WiiU still has built-in component outputs. You can probably put off getting an HDTV a bit longer if you're going to grab the WiiU first.


 

 Also not getting a WiiU for some time. Oculus Rift comes before all other systems.


----------



## Ezio

I'll take the PS4. But it's also a good thing that Microsoft dropped the limitations.


----------



## HalidePisces

http://sticktwiddlers.com/2013/06/28/xbox-one-dashboard-created-with-advertising-in-mind/

Really, Microsoft? You just got yourselves out of the DRM frying pan and now you're openly jumping into the advertisement frying pan? And before the console even launches too! I wonder what Nintendo and Sony are thinking...


----------



## daleb

I believe Nintendo was making jokes about the entire thing during E3... I need to find that article.
   
  Edit: Here we go 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/13/4426338/nintendo-if-youre-worried-about-used-game-sales-make-better-games


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I can't get virtual surround on the Wii U. Until a 3rd party makes a device capable of outputting virtual surround from PCM signals...


 
   
  I'm pretty sure that's what AVRs with HDMI inputs and Dolby Headphone support are for...or if you're really rich, a Smyth Realiser A8 (which is actually completely incapable of accepting Dolby Digital or DTS signals through HDMI).
   
  At the very least, I'd be highly surprised if the Marantz SR5002 of yours wouldn't accept multi-channel LPCM over HDMI as a source for a Dolby Headphone mix...too bad that's kind of a moot point now that it crapped out on you.
   
  Still, I'd like a device that isn't ridiculously bulky like an AVR, but still has HDMI inputs for virtual surround DSP purposes.
   
  Quote: 





studiosound said:


> The quality of component video is terrible though - particularly for gaming due to its subsampled chroma, and HDMI has been around since 2003. DVI has been around even longer than that, and is compatible with HDMI.
> 
> If you really have an HDMI or DVI equipped display which does not support HDCP, there are HDCP strippers available.


 
   
  Component is still nowhere near as terrible as S-Video, composite and especially RF, though...and isn't the subsampled chroma thing only an issue with pre-recorded video, while consoles output uncompressed color difference channels?
   
  I'm more pissed about Sony using HDCP at all times on the PS3, even for gaming video footage. Makes it impossible for me to actually use that HDMI input on my capture card. And as for HDCP strippers, if I'm going to get one of those, then I might as well go all out and splurge the $400-500 on an HDfury4/3Dfury. (Which, incidentally, would be nearly double what I paid for the GDM-FW900 I'd be using it with...but that monitor's worth more to me than almost every other display in existence.)


----------



## StudioSound

namelesspfg said:


> Component is still nowhere near as terrible as S-Video, composite and especially RF, though...


That’s certainly true—component video is at least HD. 



namelesspfg said:


> and isn't the subsampled chroma thing only an issue with pre-recorded video, while consoles output uncompressed color difference channels?


Quite the opposite. Pre-recorded video is all encoded using 4:2:0 subsampled chroma.
Games are rendered in RGB which means it has full resolution chroma, and component video is going to blur the image. 



namelesspfg said:


> I'm more pissed about Sony using HDCP at all times on the PS3, even for gaming video footage. Makes it impossible for me to actually use that HDMI input on my capture card.


There are a number of relatively cheap devices that will strip HDCP. As for capturing video, the PS4 does that itself. 



namelesspfg said:


> And as for HDCP strippers, if I'm going to get one of those, then I might as well go all out and splurge the $400-500 on an HDfury4/3Dfury.


These devices are not HDCP strippers, but DACs; they convert HDMI to VGA. And you don’t need anything more than the original HdFury—it handles 1080p60 just fine.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Component is still nowhere near as terrible as S-Video, composite and especially RF, though...


 
  I still do all my console gaming through composite on a CRT. Its magical


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote:


studiosound said:


> That’s certainly true—component video is at least HD.
> Quite the opposite. Pre-recorded video is all encoded using 4:2:0 subsampled chroma.
> Games are rendered in RGB which means it has full resolution chroma, and component video is going to blur the image.
> There are a number of relatively cheap devices that will strip HDCP. As for capturing video, the PS4 does that itself.
> These devices are not HDCP strippers, but DACs; they convert HDMI to VGA. And you don’t need anything more than the original HdFury—it handles 1080p60 just fine.


 
   
  Games are rendered in RGB, of course...and component video outputting game footage rendered on-the-fly would just use full-res color difference channels instead of forcibly compressing them, would it not? (I still think the whole notion of a color difference video interface for video compression's sake is pretty stupid, given that it's more complicated to implement than straight RGB. Figures that RGB is commonplace in Europe and Asia thanks to SCART/RGB21 ports, which practically don't exist here in the US...)
   
  As for the blur, I would think that's just the nature of analog video on a digital display.
   
  There's actually a very good reason I want a full-on DAC like the HDFury: I have this Sony GDM-FW900 monitor I intend to make full use of, and it can handle 720p120 with ease if I decide to experiment with 3D shutterglasses again. The later models just also happen to have this convenient extra feature of HDCP-stripping the original signal and passing it through otherwise untouched, so there's the possibility of having it connected to my monitor AND my capture card simultaneously.
   
  Note that I don't have any plans on buying a PS4 any time soon; this is strictly PS3 use here.
   
  Quote: 





daleb said:


> I still do all my console gaming through composite on a CRT. Its magical


 
   
  I do all my console gaming on the aforementioned CRT...in crystal-clear RGB video. (VGA is technically RGB, by the way, just assumed to have a minimum 31 KHz horizontal scan rate most of the time...not that my capture card cares, being one of the few to accept 15 KHz RGB on the VGA input.)
   
  Some people insist on composite video for the Genesis and other consoles whose games tend to rely heavily on dithering, but I absolutely cannot stand the red shift/color bleed and general chroma mutilation that it brings, even if there are cases where the blur would be desirable. S-Video sharpens things up a lot, but still has the nasty color issues.


----------



## HiCZoK

I was wondering. I WILL get ps4. (currently have 360 and was happy with it until I upgraded my pc)
   
  I have dell u2312hm which have dvi, vga and displayport. I am using vga for 360 and dvi for pc.
   
   
  I wonder how to get sound on ps4 and display. I guess I could get displayport cable and use that on pc and then get a hdmi to dvi + stereo rca cables for ps4 right ?


----------



## StudioSound

namelesspfg said:


> Games are rendered in RGB, of course...and component video outputting game footage rendered on-the-fly would just use full-res color difference channels instead of forcibly compressing them, would it not?


I'm pretty sure you only get 4:2:2 when using component cables. Over HDMI you can certainly transmit 4:4:4 YCC video though. (RGB is equivalent to 4:4:4)



namelesspfg said:


> I still think the whole notion of a color difference video interface for video compression's sake is pretty stupid, given that it's more complicated to implement than straight RGB.


It's a considerable saving though, and it makes even more sense for video when you consider that most cameras use a bayer matrix so the content has subsampled chroma anyway. (guess why greenscreen is more common than bluescreen outside of film production )



namelesspfg said:


> Figures that RGB is commonplace in Europe and Asia thanks to SCART/RGB21 ports, which practically don't exist here in the US...)


SCART is SD only though. 576i50 or PAL60.



namelesspfg said:


> As for the blur, I would think that's just the nature of analog video on a digital display.


No, it's due to chroma subsampling. But yes, analog video will also be less sharp than digital.



namelesspfg said:


> There's actually a very good reason I want a full-on DAC like the HDFury: I have this Sony GDM-FW900 monitor I intend to make full use of, and it can handle 720p120 with ease if I decide to experiment with 3D shutterglasses again.


Phosphor persistence is too high on CRT monitors for 3D to work well. I wouldn't bother.



namelesspfg said:


> The later models just also happen to have this convenient extra feature of HDCP-stripping the original signal and passing it through otherwise untouched, so there's the possibility of having it connected to my monitor AND my capture card simultaneously.


Right, but it is not _necessary_ to be spending $400-500.



namelesspfg said:


> I do all my console gaming on the aforementioned CRT...in crystal-clear RGB video. (VGA is technically RGB, by the way, just assumed to have a minimum 31 KHz horizontal scan rate most of the time...not that my capture card cares, being one of the few to accept 15 KHz RGB on the VGA input.)


It's a nice setup to have. I miss CRTs. I don't miss their size and focus/convergence issues though. (even the FW900 when fully tweaked)



namelesspfg said:


> Some people insist on composite video for the Genesis and other consoles whose games tend to rely heavily on dithering, but I absolutely cannot stand the red shift/color bleed and general chroma mutilation that it brings, even if there are cases where the blur would be desirable. S-Video sharpens things up a lot, but still has the nasty color issues.


I wouldn't use anything less than RGB. People that want to use composite or s-video are just nostalgic for their childhood. (though I had RGB then too...)


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





studiosound said:


> I wouldn't use anything less than RGB. People that want to use composite or s-video are just nostalgic for their childhood. (though I had RGB then too...)


 
  Or we just don't have a tv that can handle anything else *.*
   
  Edit: How do you think Sony will handle its advertising for the PS4? Im really hoping for a return to the great 1998-2003 ads.


----------



## seetheforest

Quote: 





daleb said:


> Or we just don't have a tv that can handle anything else *.*
> 
> Edit: How do you think Sony will handle its advertising for the PS4? Im really hoping for a return to the great 1998-2003 ads.


 
  Sounds like it's time to update the TV.  That makes sense if you are willing to go out and plop down $400+ for a new game console.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





seetheforest said:


> Sounds like it's time to update the TV.  That makes sense if you are willing to go out and plop down $400+ for a new game console.


 

 I'm not buying the PS4 for a long time, actually. College keeps these kind of things away.


----------



## SoundPaduone

I love me some Halo and that controller but there are so many reason to jump to PS4. the OS has less of a memory stamp and the hardware of the PS4 is pretty on point. That and Sony makes great single player experiences and that's something I'm attracted to. I love my 360 but that's what I'm thinking right now. 
I don't mind the Kinect thing and the price because the more people that own the tech the more risks developers will take. I think its cool MS would take that price risk.

FOR NOW PS4


----------



## laon

In the future, Microsoft's entire PR regarding Xbox One will probably be the case study how NOT to do it.
   
  http://www.vg247.com/2013/07/04/xbox-one-built-with-advertising-in-mind-kinect-integral-to-next-gen-adverts/
   
  Who wouldn't want an effin VIDEO GAME CONSOLE build with advert in mind right?


----------



## HalidePisces

Everyone remembers the DC having VGA output support. The X360 also had official support for VGA out, and the PS2 sorta did (not sure if the PS3 had any VGA out support). I wonder if the PS4 and XB1 will do something similar. Some of us have *quality* computer CRTs that can output 2048x1536 or something close to that, much better than the currently stagnating 1920x1080 standard.


----------



## conquerator2

Quote: 





halidepisces said:


> Everyone remembers the DC having VGA output support. The X360 also had official support for VGA out, and the PS2 sorta did (not sure if the PS3 had any VGA out support). I wonder if the PS4 and XB1 will do something similar. Some of us have *quality* computer CRTs that can output 2048x1536 or something close to that, much better than the currently stagnating 1920x1080 standard.


 
   
  There are many 1920x1200 LCD/LEDs out there! Oh, wait...
  Its not like consoles will utilize anything above full HD though.


----------



## kyuuketsuki

Well now I've learned that Persona 5 us coming out as a playstation exclusive. This means I'm definitely getting a PS4.


----------



## WhiteCrow

Quote: 





kyuuketsuki said:


> Well now I've learned that Persona 5 us coming out as a playstation exclusive. This means I'm definitely getting a PS4.


 

 WHAT!!!!! source?!?!?!?1


----------



## kyuuketsuki

whitecrow said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Still in rumor phase, but considering how they've released Persona in the past, I'd say it's a fairly reliable rumor...

http://www.examiner.com/article/persona-5-and-the-last-guardian-ps4-rumored-details-revealed


----------



## Xeculus

Didn't like MS's arrogant attitude towards their customers. Also don't like nor want the Kinect. 
PS4 it is!


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





conquerator2 said:


> There are many 1920x1200 LCD/LEDs out there! Oh, wait...
> Its not like consoles will utilize anything above full HD though.


 
  Well, there's movies.
   
  Some simple games could take advantage of high resolutions as well. Just nothing with AAA graphics.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





conquerator2 said:


> Its not like consoles will utilize anything above full HD though.


 
  There's been rumors the PS4 could do 4k with some things.
   
   
  Quote: 





> Some simple games could take advantage of high resolutions as well. Just nothing with AAA graphics.


 
  4k indie games... *drools*


----------



## daleb

http://www.change.org/petitions/microsoft-give-us-back-the-xbox-one-we-were-promised-at-e3-2


----------



## kyuuketsuki

Quote: 





daleb said:


> http://www.change.org/petitions/microsoft-give-us-back-the-xbox-one-we-were-promised-at-e3-2


 
   
  They are in the minority... They changed because they met with huge backlash. Even at E3 when Sony took jabs at them, the whole crowd responded positively. I don't think MS at any point received even a small portion of the response that Sony did when they said the words "There are no restrictions on used games." Then there was that letter from the service member, which probably pushed them over the edge with all those decisions... 
   
  Regardless of true intent or not, or what possibilities those features would have had, they went about it in the wrong way and in the end paid for it with a PR nightmare.


----------



## daleb

I'm pretty sure most of the people signing that *cough*includingme*cough* are trolling.
   
  Just look at the reasons given.


----------



## Xeculus

Quote: 





daleb said:


> I'm pretty sure most of the people signing that *cough*includingme*cough* are trolling.
> 
> Just look at the reasons given.


 
   
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted on *Change.org* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I love restrictions. I want always online DRM. I want the game rental business to become obsolete. I don't want to let my friends borrow games, because ****** them. All I care about is my god damn new age console that'll blow everything else out of the water! ****** the PS4 and ****** those Sony guys for catering to fans who care about their gaming experience. ****** PC, that crap is stupid. Steam? ****** that crap. They never have sales or anything. It's not as affordable as buying my games from the XBL marketplace. I love Microsoft and their business practices will be the best forever. ****** yes. <3 Xbox.


 
   
   
  ....I think you are absolutely right.


----------



## Jobot

I play a lot of PS3, but I don't actually own the console. I'll be moving and losing my full-time PS3 access not long before the PS4 comes out, so chances are I'll just look for a good deal on a PS3 and play some of the games I haven't finished yet and catch up on some others that I missed out on. I'll probably get one of the next-gen systems eventually, but that'll be at least a year from now.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





jobot said:


> I play a lot of PS3, but I don't actually own the console. I'll be moving and losing my full-time PS3 access not long before the PS4 comes out, so chances are I'll just look for a good deal on a PS3 and play some of the games I haven't finished yet and catch up on some others that I missed out on. I'll probably get one of the next-gen systems eventually, but that'll be at least a year from now.


 

 That seems to be how I work. I play the last generation as the new one comes out. I'm looking forward to finally playing PS3!
   
  Looking at the petition, I think this is my favorite reason given:
   
  Quote: 





> If you don't sign this you are gay and you will never be a part of my halo clan.


----------



## ShabbyRedTabby

Do we know what Persona 5 will be on yet? No? Well I guess I haven't decided yet.
   
  But in all seriousness I'm going with PS4 and not because of the whole Microsoft used games scandal thing. Both my Xbox and Xbox 360 have fallen apart on me over the years and I take real good care of my electronic equipment. My PS2 and PS3 still look great, like used selling great. Both consoles will have similar games I'm sure. Even their exclusives will even themselves out. So based on console life I'll go with PS4. Looks nicer too IMHO


----------



## kyuuketsuki

Quote: 





shabbyredtabby said:


> Do we know what Persona 5 will be on yet? No? Well I guess I haven't decided yet.
> 
> But in all seriousness I'm going with PS4 and not because of the whole Microsoft used games scandal thing. Both my Xbox and Xbox 360 have fallen apart on me over the years and I take real good care of my electronic equipment. My PS2 and PS3 still look great, like used selling great. Both consoles will have similar games I'm sure. Even their exclusives will even themselves out. So based on console life I'll go with PS4. Looks nicer too IMHO


 
   
  It is rumored to be a PlayStation exclusive. Judging by previous release habits by Atlus, I'd say it was at least a decent rumor. I'd be completely surprised if it was an Xbox exclusive. Atlus seems to support Nintendo and Sony. (Which makes sense since their core market is really mostly Japanese, and Microsoft isn't very popular over there)


----------



## ShabbyRedTabby

Quote: 





kyuuketsuki said:


> It is rumored to be a PlayStation exclusive. Judging by previous release habits by Atlus, I'd say it was at least a decent rumor. I'd be completely surprised if it was an Xbox exclusive. Atlus seems to support Nintendo and Sony. (Which makes sense since their core market is really mostly Japanese, and Microsoft isn't very popular over there)


 

 I'm just crossing my fingers that it isn't a hand held exclusive like SMT4 was for the 3DS. I prefer playing on a TV. But yeah it will most likely by a Sony exclusive if it is one. But like how P4A was on Xbox and PS it wouldn't surprise me if P5 is on both consoles either.


----------



## jfletcher68

shabbyredtabby said:


> Do we know what Persona 5 will be on yet? No? Well I guess I haven't decided yet.
> 
> But in all seriousness I'm going with PS4 and not because of the whole Microsoft used games scandal thing. Both my Xbox and Xbox 360 have fallen apart on me over the years and I take real good care of my electronic equipment. My PS2 and PS3 still look great, like used selling great. Both consoles will have similar games I'm sure. Even their exclusives will even themselves out. So based on console life I'll go with PS4. Looks nicer too IMHO



On my xbox 360 i got a red ring of death so i sent it in and the xbox they sent back got it again i was sooo pissed!


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





jfletcher68 said:


> On my xbox 360 i got a red ring of death so i sent it in and the xbox they sent back got it again i was sooo pissed!


 
  That sucks...
   
  I'm glad that mine got an RRoD before. Well, I wasn't happy at the time but it did come back with an HDMI port that wasn't there before. So it was basically like a free upgrade.


----------



## StudioSound

shabbyredtabby said:


> Do we know what Persona 5 will be on yet? No? Well I guess I haven't decided yet.


That presumes Atlus manages to stay in business long enough to release Persona 5. With the way things are going right now, I wouldn't be so sure.

And it would likely be a PS3 or Xbox 360 release, if anything. The Persona games don't do big enough numbers for them to tie them into a new system launch.
Persona 4 came out on the PS2 after the PS3 was on the market for this reason.


----------



## kyuuketsuki

Quote: 





studiosound said:


> That presumes Atlus manages to stay in business long enough to release Persona 5. With the way things are going right now, I wouldn't be so sure.
> 
> And it would likely be a PS3 or Xbox 360 release, if anything. The Persona games don't do big enough numbers for them to tie them into a new system launch.
> Persona 4 came out on the PS2 after the PS3 was on the market for this reason.


 
   
  That isn't Atlus so much as Index. Atlus at this point is a brand, and if one company dies another can take up the brand. Atlus as a company ceased 3 years ago. If they do well enough, the share holders might even be able to buy back the brand and relaunch the brand as a company again, or it could be taken up by another company who wants to get into the gaming industry. 
   
  We'll see what happens, though I suspect that we won't see the end of Atlus, considering their popularity in Japan and growing popularity outside of Japan. 
   
  Though, I suspect they will put out at least P5 no matter what. Since they recently acquired the domain for it.


----------



## ShabbyRedTabby

Quote: 





studiosound said:


> That presumes Atlus manages to stay in business long enough to release Persona 5. With the way things are going right now, I wouldn't be so sure.
> 
> And it would likely be a PS3 or Xbox 360 release, if anything. The Persona games don't do big enough numbers for them to tie them into a new system launch.
> Persona 4 came out on the PS2 after the PS3 was on the market for this reason.


 
  They already acquired a domain name for it so I was just assuming it was because of an impending Persona 5 release. Plus they've been working on this thing since 2011 from what they said so I doubt they can't find  a way to release the game. I think Atlus will be fine.


----------



## dasroot

I don't want to sound weird but the 24x7 camera creeps me out. Additionally, the media rights issues bother me as I don't want to have to pay additional fees if I want to share something. That seems like a direct effort to squeeze more money out of the consumer.


----------



## laon

Quote: 





dasroot said:


> I don't want to sound weird but the 24x7 camera creeps me out. Additionally, the media rights issues bother me as I don't want to have to pay additional fees if I want to share something. That seems like a direct effort to squeeze more money out of the consumer.


 
   
  Worse, it's a state of the art camera tech able to, but not limited to :
  - detect your entire body gesture down to the tiniest movement
  - detect your emotion via face recognition
  - detect your heart rate (why?)
  - listen to room-wide sound even through ambience noise
  - see in the dark
  - determine how many people are in the room and probably who they are
   
  and it's always on, I dunno about you guys but I don't like the thing at all.


----------



## conquerator2

Quote: 





dasroot said:


> I don't want to sound weird but the 24x7 camera creeps me out. Additionally, the media rights issues bother me as I don't want to have to pay additional fees if I want to share something. That seems like a direct effort to squeeze more money out of the consumer.


 
  Yeah well, hence the acronym M*$*


----------



## conquerator2

Quote: 





laon said:


> Worse, it's a state of the art camera tech able to, but not limited to :
> - detect your entire body gesture down to the tiniest movement
> - detect your emotion via face recognition
> - detect your heart rate (why?)
> ...


 
   
  You can always buy the next-gen console that does not mandate it  (Which is also probably more powerful out-of-the-box)


----------



## laon

Quote: 





conquerator2 said:


> You can always buy the next-gen console that does not mandate it  (Which is also probably more powerful out-of-the-box)


 

 Oh but I am (not buying it), it's just the thought that something like that exist kinda disturb me. Kinect itself is a very interesting piece of gadget if used right, I don't think it's the right device for gaming however.


----------



## conquerator2

Quote: 





laon said:


> Oh but I am (not buying it), it's just the thought that something like that exist kinda disturb me. Kinect itself is a very interesting piece of gadget if used right, I don't think it's the right device for gaming however.


 
  Sure I totally agree with you there.
  Also if it wasnt implemented as an always connected device (similarly like the first Kinect) it would be less of an issue.
  Definitely a piece of technology that could be used in helpful ways.


----------



## kyuuketsuki

laon said:


> Oh but I am (not buying it), it's just the thought that something like that exist kinda disturb me. Kinect itself is a very interesting piece of gadget if used right, I don't think it's the right device for gaming however.




Kinect needs to be renamed to "Telescreen 1.0"


----------



## WhiteCrow

Quote: 





kyuuketsuki said:


> Kinect needs to be renamed to "Telescreen 1.0"


 

 or NSA monitoring system 1.0


----------



## laon

Probably the immediate annoyance of Kinect 2.0 would be the more "relevant" ads MS will deliver to you http://www.vg247.com/2013/07/04/xbox-one-built-with-advertising-in-mind-kinect-integral-to-next-gen-adverts/ the joy.
   
  AFAIK they didn't backpedal on this one (yet).


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





> Do we know what Persona 5 will be on yet? No? Well I guess I haven't decided yet.


 
  There is actually rumors that Nintendo is going to buy Atlus. Persona 5 might end up on the Wii U...


----------



## lightningfarron

Quote: 





daleb said:


> There is actually rumors that Nintendo is going to buy Atlus. Persona 5 might end up on the Wii U...


 

 hope that its not true. if yes then i might have to consider the wii u too.


----------



## Johnnyhi

XBOX ONE 
  I don't mind having a couple of fat guys watching me thru kinect... As a kid i had the ps1... then the ps2 and xbox came out... i decided to get the xbox for no particular reason and i havent look back ever since... i have played the ps2 and ps3 but i never felt immersed while playing... there was something lacking... probably the control pad...i just dunno... i didn't bought the 360. 
   
  today for me is all about PC... with the 360 gamepad...but i will deffinetly buy the XBOX ONE... cuss there is something interesting about it... maybe the UI...maybe because i hate disc loading errors...


----------



## conquerator2

johnnyhi said:


> [COLOR=0F7D0F]XBOX[/COLOR] [COLOR=222222]ONE [/COLOR]
> I don't mind
> having a couple of fat guys
> 
> ...




You realize Xbox One does require a disc in the tray in order to play the game?

Also off-topic-according yo the latest news the PS4 will operate at a temperature of 35°V with the processor core frequency up to 2.75GHz. Paired with the solid 1.8TFlops and 8GB GDDR5...
A hard fight for the DDR3,underclocked HD7790 and a probably lower CPU speed.... Just saying.
Also Naughty Dog and other first parties is something.I would never part with


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





conquerator2 said:


> You realize Xbox One does require a disc in the tray in order to play the game?
> 
> Also off-topic-according yo the latest news the PS4 will operate at a temperature of 35°V with the processor core frequency up to 2.75GHz. Paired with the solid 1.8TFlops and 8GB GDDR5...
> A hard fight for the DDR3,underclocked HD7790 and a probably lower CPU speed.... Just saying.
> Also Naughty Dog and other first parties is something.I would never part with


 
   
  The PS4 also has an HD 7850, which is pretty dang good.


----------



## conquerator2

Quote: 





conquerator2 said:


> You realize Xbox One does require a disc in the tray in order to play the game?
> 
> Also off-topic-according yo the latest news the PS4 will operate at a temperature of 35°V with the processor core frequency up to 2.75GHz.* Paired with the solid 1.8TFlops* and 8GB GDDR5...
> A hard fight for the DDR3,underclocked HD7790 and a probably lower CPU speed.... Just saying.
> Also Naughty Dog and other first parties is something.I would never part with


 
   
   
  Quote: 





daleb said:


> *The PS4 also has an HD 7850, which is pretty dang good.*


 
   
  Said that... More of a modified HD 7870 (1,8 TFlops) but fine


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





conquerator2 said:


> Said that...


 
  That doesn't count


----------



## kyuuketsuki

Quote: 





johnnyhi said:


> XBOX ONE
> *I don't mind having a couple of fat guys watching me thru kinect*... As a kid i had the ps1... then the ps2 and xbox came out... i decided to get the xbox for no particular reason and i havent look back ever since... i have played the ps2 and ps3 but i never felt immersed while playing... there was something lacking... probably the control pad...i just dunno... i didn't bought the 360.
> 
> today for me is all about PC... with the 360 gamepad...but i will deffinetly buy the XBOX ONE... cuss there is something interesting about it... maybe the UI...maybe because i hate disc loading errors...


 
   
  I'm less worried about MS watching me so much as the government.


----------



## ShabbyRedTabby

Quote: 





daleb said:


> There is actually rumors that Nintendo is going to buy Atlus. Persona 5 might end up on the Wii U...


 

 Yeah I saw that, but it wasn't so much a legitimate rumor as it was one website saying Nintendo could buy it if they wanted to. Sure Nintendo COULD buy it, but so could a bunch of other publishers. I'd be surprised if they did honestly. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.


----------



## WhiteCrow

Quote: 





shabbyredtabby said:


> Yeah I saw that, but it wasn't so much a legitimate rumor as it was one website saying Nintendo could buy it if they wanted to. Sure Nintendo COULD buy it, but so could a bunch of other publishers. I'd be surprised if they did honestly. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.


 

 yeah Atlus seems more like a Sony type company than Nintendo, Nintendo being a more family oriented company and Atlus being.....less so.


----------



## HalidePisces

whitecrow said:


> yeah Atlus seems more like a Sony type company than Nintendo, Nintendo being a more family oriented company and Atlus being.....less so.


 But Atlus wouldn't be out of place if Nintendo bought them from Index. Remember that Nintendo has also been doing stuff like Fire Emblem for a long time (1990 if I recall correctly). Sure, they're nowhere as "dark" and/or "serious" as some of the later stuff by Atlus (they used to do some lighter fare), but still not too far off.

Doubt it'd matter either way. Remember Microsoft buying Bungee (used to do games for Apple) and Rare (used to do games for Nintendo)?


----------



## ShabbyRedTabby

Quote: 





halidepisces said:


> But Atlus wouldn't be out of place if Nintendo bought them from Index. Remember that Nintendo has also been doing stuff like Fire Emblem for a long time (1990 if I recall correctly). Sure, they're nowhere as "dark" and/or "serious" as some of the later stuff by Atlus (they used to do some lighter fare), but still not too far off.
> 
> Doubt it'd matter either way. Remember Microsoft buying Bungee (used to do games for Apple) and Rare (used to do games for Nintendo)?


 
  I think the biggest reason I don't see Nintendo buying Atlus isn't because of Atlus being too "dark and edgy" for them (No More Heroes and Killer 7 anyone?) but because for the longest time Atlus has been a mostly Sony exclusive company and built up its fan base on their systems. Meaning the majority of the fans are fans of Sony. Would people still play Persona 5 on Wii U? Yeah, but will the core fanbase shell out $300 to get a Wii U for one game? I'm not so sure. Maybe they'll shock us all and make games exclusively for the OUYA


----------



## laon

Quote: 





halidepisces said:


> But Atlus wouldn't be out of place if Nintendo bought them from Index. Remember that Nintendo has also been doing stuff like Fire Emblem for a long time (1990 if I recall correctly). Sure, they're nowhere as "dark" and/or "serious" as some of the later stuff by Atlus (they used to do some lighter fare), but still not too far off.
> 
> Doubt it'd matter either way. Remember Microsoft buying Bungee (used to do games for Apple) and Rare (used to do games for Nintendo)?


 

 Huh? I thought that the first few SMT series were far more darker than the straight up light hearted theme of Persona nowadays.
   
  I don't see why Nintendo couldn't buy Atlus, Monolithsoft's resume also weren't exactly fit with Nintendo's usual first party title, but it doesn't really matter if you could control the development of the game. I hope not though, I was disappointed enough when Atlus made SMT IV for 3DS.


----------



## HalidePisces

Historically, the Shin Megami Tensei games were released on Nintendo systems. Shin Megami Tensei 4 was released for Nintendo's 3DS, rather than Sony's Vita. And then there's the Devil Survivor line... not to mention the upcoming SMT x Fire Emblem game for the WiiU. I think the Sony thing is a more recent thing, based off the aftermath of the PS1 vs. N64. The Persona spin-off has been a Sony thing due to its origins (series started on PS1).

Atlus doesn't seem to have issues working with Nintendo again (they seemed to have favored Nintendo over Sega during the pre-Sony days), in contrast to Squaresoft (now Square-Enix). As for getting a new console for a game, people have done that for exclusives. And, of course, there's the potential prospect of follow up games for Nintendo's consoles so it wouldn't be just one game. Nintendo buying Atlus would mean securing them away from Sony.

EDIT: Yeah, the earlier SMT games were much darker and serious than the modern day ones. I was thinking of stuff like Power Instinct (which did get a port to a Sega system). I can't think of something similar by Atlus these days.


----------



## kyuuketsuki

Quote: 





halidepisces said:


> Historically, the Shin Megami Tensei games were released on Nintendo systems. Shin Megami Tensei 4 was released for Nintendo's 3DS, rather than Sony's Vita. And then there's the Devil Survivor line... not to mention the upcoming SMT x Fire Emblem game for the WiiU. I think the Sony thing is a more recent thing, based off the aftermath of the PS1 vs. N64. The Persona spin-off has been a Sony thing due to its origins (series started on PS1).
> 
> Atlus doesn't seem to have issues working with Nintendo again (they seemed to have favored Nintendo over Sega during the pre-Sony days), in contrast to Squaresoft (now Square-Enix). As for getting a new console for a game, people have done that for exclusives. And, of course, there's the potential prospect of follow up games for Nintendo's consoles so it wouldn't be just one game. Nintendo buying Atlus would mean securing them away from Sony.
> 
> EDIT: Yeah, the earlier SMT games were much darker and serious than the modern day ones.


 
   
  Pretty much this. The SMT being released on Sony systems started with Persona and carried over to SMT3, DDS and Devil Summoner. Most other games were released on Nintendo Handhelds. However it is fair to say that Atlus does have some connection with Sony given some of their other games have been Sony Exclusives like Demon Souls. However, I really think that they'll go back to Nintendo if needed. 
   
  And again, Nintendo has the capital to do basically whatever they want. They've been in gaming for well over 100 years. They have built a gaming empire that Sony and MS can hardly touch. 
   
  Personally I wouldn't mind buying a Wii U for Atlus exclusives, just so long as they follow standard input rather than use gimmicks (unless they release a new Trauma Center using that pad for surgery, THAT I'd buy in an instant). So if Nintendo does end up bidding and winning Atlus, I'll have no issues. It might even be a powerful combination.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





kyuuketsuki said:


> They've been in gaming for well over 100 years.


 
  Speaking of that, have you guys every looked over the history of Nintendo? It's absolutely insane, especially when you realize that almost all of their profit back in the day came from the Yakuza.


----------



## felisaqya

Quote: 





daleb said:


> Speaking of that, have you guys every looked over the history of Nintendo? It's absolutely insane, especially when you realize that almost all of their profit back in the day came from the Yakuza.


 
  Didn't they start off as a playing cards company? I thought they did that then a bunch of other weird stuff like taxis until they launched Game&Watch in 1980. 
  Anyways personally I hope ATLUS isn't bought by Nintendo seeing as their region lock policy has always been a problem for me. It'd be nice if Sony bought them but seeing as Sony is focusing on PS4... Maybe its best if they remained third-party.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





felisaqya said:


> Didn't they start off as a playing cards company? I thought they did that then a bunch of other weird stuff like taxis until they launched Game&Watch in 1980.
> Anyways personally I hope ATLUS isn't bought by Nintendo seeing as their region lock policy has always been a problem for me. It'd be nice if Sony bought them but seeing as Sony is focusing on PS4... Maybe its best if they remained third-party.


 

 They did in fact start off as a playing card company, but back in the day, the main user of playing cards was the Yakuza. Nintendo pretty much owned the casinos. They also owned the taxi business, a chain of love hotels, part of the bike industry, a food chain, vacuum cleaners, and a toy business. Everything but the toy business and playing cards were cancelled soon after, because they decided making video games would be funner... Or at least that's how I like to believe it happened. It may possible have more to do with money, but that's not as inspiring. Nintendo still has both toys and playing cards being produced every so often.
   
  The only problem is Atlus needs a publisher. I'm really scared of them getting picked up by a publisher besides Sony or Nintendo. I don't want a company that restricts the creative freedom of Atlus.


----------



## ShabbyRedTabby

Quote: 





daleb said:


> The only problem is Atlus needs a publisher. I'm really scared of them getting picked up by a publisher besides Sony or Nintendo. I don't want a company that restricts the creative freedom of Atlus.


 
   
  Unless the company was like EA or something I don't see with happening with any publisher.


----------



## ShabbyRedTabby

Quote: 





daleb said:


> The only problem is Atlus needs a publisher. I'm really scared of them getting picked up by a publisher besides Sony or Nintendo. I don't want a company that restricts the creative freedom of Atlus.


 
  Actually I take back what I said. I've heard of some pretty crazy publisher stories trying to control the companies that make them. I hope Sony buys Atlus honestly.


----------



## HalidePisces

Atlus is a big name in the East, much more so than in the West. I don't think the big Western publishing companies (EA, Activision-Blizzard, etc.) would be that interested, especially since Atlus' major works don't resonate as well to mainstream Western audiences. Atlus will likely be bought by a Japanese company (Sony, Nintendo, Namco Bandai, etc.) or at the very least an Asian company (GungHo Online Entertainment).


----------



## daleb

I'm really hoping for Sony or Nintendo!


----------



## blazeops

PS4. One main reason is for the NFL package because I don't have Direct TV. Other reason is I enjoy the PS exclusives such as Uncharted and Last of Us. I was never interested in Halo and most of my FPSes on PC.


----------



## conquerator2

Quote: 





blazeops said:


> PS4. One main reason is for the NFL package because I don't have Direct TV. *Other reason is I enjoy the PS exclusives such as Uncharted and Last of Us. I was never interested in Halo and most of my FPSes on PC.*


 
  This - The exclusives are something to remind why I chose Sony at the very beginning (and why the period I owned the X360 was not something that convinced me to switch)
  The Last of Us is sublime 0_0


----------



## NoodleBoy91

Getting the ps4 here.. I have been a sony fan since the psone era.. ps plus and the great exclusives caught me.


----------



## ceverson70

I do not disagree with any comments about the announcements, however, I feel people are getting to worked up about Microsofts approacha nd forgetting everything Microsoft has done with XBox Live, so many more people have 360s and XBox Live has always been much further ahead the PSN and to be honest, there is no way that is going to change at launch. It took Microsoft years to perfect it and they still make it better, they have a 4 year jump over Sony as the XBox had online gaming and so does the 360 where as the PS3 was the first true online system besides games like SOCOM. They are both going to be good but since the world is moving to the cloud, Microsoft has the resources and the head start int he field to execute more efficiently.


----------



## daleb

I still don't see what the cloud is going to do. There is way too much latency between the servers and your home for the cloud to do anything meaningful at all. It isn't going to change anything at all, and the world is definitely not moving on to the cloud.


----------



## ceverson70

All business apps are now cloud based, quick books, office, adobe. When business moves towards the cloud so does the rest, and it is all based on the power of the servers, that determines latency, the servers are just to offload some content, ie movie streaming. Name a service that isn't moving towards the cloud, music, movies, tv business apps, the world is becoming cloud based whether one admits it or not


----------



## kyuuketsuki

Quote: 





ceverson70 said:


> All business apps are now cloud based, quick books, office, adobe. When business moves towards the cloud so does the rest, and it is all based on the power of the servers, that determines latency, the servers are just to offload some content, ie movie streaming. Name a service that isn't moving towards the cloud, music, movies, tv business apps, the world is becoming cloud based whether one admits it or not


 
   
  Streaming info that is static, is much different than streaming information that is dynamic. Maybe game info will be stored on the cloud, maybe even you can download games from the cloud like Steam... but streaming games is a far ways off.


----------



## gikigill

Keep drinking the cloud koolaid and soon you will be renting games at the same price as you used to buy them. You do realise that if MS blocks your account, you can't even play your games offline if they are stored in the cloud. 
Businesses keep a backup offline but you won't have the choice to do so.


----------



## ceverson70

Yeah I'll keep drinking the future, there's always a price to pay for improvements in technology and the future and you just have to live with them, if you don't technology would never change and we would still be stuck in ancient times. That's the fact of life and if you don't believe me just look at any age of history.


----------



## ceverson70

Quote: 





kyuuketsuki said:


> Streaming info that is static, is much different than streaming information that is dynamic. Maybe game info will be stored on the cloud, maybe even you can download games from the cloud like Steam... but streaming games is a far ways off.


 
  Streaming games has been occurring for the last 2-3 years on the PC side of things. It is very possible, and at most 20% of the games are dynamic, no offline play is dynamic as it is already built into the game. There are so many web browser based games on PCs all of which do not take space and are streamed, anywhere from FPS to arcade games, even BF has a web browser game.


----------



## ceverson70

Quote: 





gikigill said:


> Keep drinking the cloud koolaid and soon you will be renting games at the same price as you used to buy them. You do realise that if MS blocks your account, you can't even play your games offline if they are stored in the cloud.
> Businesses keep a backup offline but you won't have the choice to do so.


 
  They never said you can't backup your files offline, don't assume information that hasn't been published.


----------



## kyuuketsuki

Quote: 





ceverson70 said:


> Streaming games has been occurring for the last 2-3 years on the PC side of things. It is very possible, and at most 20% of the games are dynamic, no offline play is dynamic as it is already built into the game. There are so many web browser based games on PCs all of which do not take space and are streamed, anywhere from FPS to arcade games, even BF has a web browser game.


 
   
  There is a reason why most high end games have the system requirements they do and are not cloud streaming. The latency and the bandwidth requirements aren't all there. You take a top of the line game you'd install and compare it to the top of the line fully online webgame and you'll see a huge difference in basically everything. That is basically why MS said that the game would be installed on the XBone and not completely cloud based. The cloud would only be used for additional processing power if needed. Maybe partial install partial streaming, but that's about as far as we are for game streaming of high end. A lot of the information even on "Streaming" games are installed, at least temporarily on your computer. 
   
  Quote: 





ceverson70 said:


> They never said you can't backup your files offline, don't assume information that hasn't been published.


 
   
  Yes they did. It is in the TOS. If the game is 100% digital, they literally have the right to enter your computer and delete your files, or disable your code for playing it rendering the game useless or nonexistent on your device. That is why a lot of gamers are resisting cloud gaming, because you don't really own the game or any game, even with physical copies. Even with steam they can do that, and it took steam some time and some really great deals to pick up the slack and become the game distributor they are now. Take some time, read the TOS of your games. You'll find that you basically have what amounts to a permanent license that can be terminated at any time rather than ownership of that game. However, at least with physical copies you know you can continue to play, unless they break into your house to steal the game disk.


----------



## gikigill

You obviously don't have a clue as to what MS is aiming for or are you just naive? They aren't doing it for your benefit, rest assured or they wouldn't even have thought of something this draconian to begin with. 
In other words, you are the customer that is most wanted by MS.


----------



## gikigill

Forgot to mention that their TOS also forbids you to file a class action against them.


----------



## kyuuketsuki

Quote: 





gikigill said:


> Forgot to mention that their TOS also forbids you to file a class action against them.


 
   
  Yeah, but so does Sony's so... we are basically screwed either way on that front.


----------



## HalidePisces

gikigill said:


> Forgot to mention that their TOS also forbids you to file a class action against them.


That's standard industry practice regarding TOS for everything nowadays.

In other new-gen console news, a lot of that RAM may not be going towards where you think it'd be going.

Also, the Wii U is doing pretty bad right now, due to lack of games (which might give Nintendo some incentive to buy Atlus). It's being outsold by both the original Wii and the PS Vita. You know your console is doing bad when the Vita outsells it. I'm curious to see how Nintendo will rebound next year when they'll really start pushing out first-party games.


----------



## noxa

Safe to say it's PS4 for me.


----------



## daleb

Wait.. What...
   
  Quote: 





> Streaming games has been occurring for the last 2-3 years on the PC side of things. It is very possible, and at most 20% of the games are dynamic, no offline play is dynamic as it is already built into the game. There are so many web browser based games on PCs all of which do not take space and are streamed, anywhere from FPS to arcade games, even BF has a web browser game.


 
  Web browser games are not cloud based... They are incredibly tiny and take almost no processing power next to the games we're talking about no consoles. How did you even bring this up?
   
  And we aren't talking about the small dynamic online gaming. That can be done. We're talking about them saying the cloud can be used to add rendering and physics processing power. That's not going to work at all.


----------



## Yeti tunes

Quote: 





daleb said:


> Wait.. What...
> 
> Web browser games are not cloud based... They are incredibly tiny and take almost no processing power next to the games we're talking about no consoles. How did you even bring this up?
> 
> And we aren't talking about the small dynamic online gaming. That can be done. We're talking about them saying the cloud can be used to add rendering and physics processing power. That's not going to work at all.


 

 I don't see why that wouldn't be possible...
   
  You've in the next gen RPG running through a sandbox world. While you're box is computing all of the near field stuff like action sequences and immediate physics, the MS/Sony/whoever's server clusters could be rendering background textures and buildings off in the distance.
   
  The closed-mindedness of this crowd in the refusal to believe there are better solutions to gaming (and computing power in general) is mind blowing...


----------



## kyuuketsuki

Quote: 





yeti tunes said:


> I don't see why that wouldn't be possible...
> 
> You've in the next gen RPG running through a sandbox world. While you're box is computing all of the near field stuff like action sequences and immediate physics, the MS/Sony/whoever's server clusters could be rendering background textures and buildings off in the distance.
> 
> The closed-mindedness of this crowd in the refusal to believe there are better solutions to gaming (and computing power in general) is mind blowing...


 
   
  It isn't that we are close-minded, it is that the technology to achieve fully cloud gaming is still a few years off, we are definitely not there yet. And honestly I still don't want it because at that point the games cease being in control of the consumer. As it stands it is just a permanent license that can be terminated at any time, if it becomes fully cloud, they could delete the game without your consent.


----------



## Yeti tunes

Quote: 





kyuuketsuki said:


> It isn't that we are close-minded, it is that the technology to achieve fully cloud gaming is still a few years off, we are definitely not there yet. And honestly I still don't want it because at that point the games cease being in control of the consumer. As it stands it is just a permanent license that can be terminated at any time, if it becomes fully cloud, they could delete the game without your consent.


 

 I'm not saying service offerings are better for the consumer, my claim is that additional computing power through the use of offloading processes is not outlandish. It's certainly better from a technical standpoint and I completely believe we have the technology to do so today. As for whether or not we have the infrastructure is a different story.


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





yeti tunes said:


> I don't see why that wouldn't be possible...
> 
> You've in the next gen RPG running through a sandbox world. While you're box is computing all of the near field stuff like action sequences and immediate physics, the MS/Sony/whoever's server clusters could be rendering background textures and buildings off in the distance.
> 
> The closed-mindedness of this crowd in the refusal to believe there are better solutions to gaming (and computing power in general) is mind blowing...


 
  The cloud can't really render anything. That's not remotely possible. What it can _theoretically_ do is stuff like process lightmaps and send that data through. And then the GPU would render that object based on the lightmap given from the cloud.
   
  Getting textures from the cloud would only be the difference between getting textures from the internet, and getting textures from the hard drive. And trust me, the hard drive is faster. The actual rendering of the textures still needs to be done by the GPU either way.


----------



## Yeti tunes

Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> The cloud can't really render anything. That's not remotely possible. What it can _theoretically_ do is stuff like process lightmaps and send that data through. And then the GPU would render that object based on the lightmap given from the cloud.
> 
> Getting textures from the cloud would only be the difference between getting textures from the internet, and getting textures from the hard drive. And trust me, the hard drive is faster. The actual rendering of the textures still needs to be done by the GPU either way.


 

 I submit that rendering was a poor choice in wording - of course all rendering happens on the client side. I was more speaking to the fact it can do positional calculations and give results back to the client.


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





yeti tunes said:


> I submit that rendering was a poor choice in wording - of course all rendering happens on the client side. I was more speaking to the fact it can do positional calculations and give results back to the client.


 
  Which it can do, but I think they're going to have to get really creative in order for them to make cloud computing help with this to the point where a significant amount of system stress is removed. This is all CPU intensive stuff, and the CPU is rarely the bottleneck in games.
   
  It couldn't really make graphics better overall, but rather possibly make games capable of having more going on at once, while still maintaining good graphics. Things like corridor shooters wouldn't really be effected by it, for example.


----------



## daleb

Oh yes, because obviously as a computer science major I'm the one close minded to new technology.
   
  Explain to me how this works, on both code and hardware, and then I'll say it can happen. You don't just assume technology works when you have no idea whats going on, and you especially don't insult someone for it. This technology does not exist yet.


----------



## Yeti tunes

daleb said:


> Oh yes, because obviously as a computer science major I'm the one close minded to new technology.
> 
> Explain to me how this works, on both code and hardware, and then I'll say it can happen. You don't just assume technology works when you have no idea whats going on, and you especially don't insult someone for it. This technology does not exist yet.




No need to get offended friend. I too am a comp sci major and have been coding for the better part of 5 years.

The technology has been around for offloading processes for quite some time. Of course this is seen all the time in the scientific world, but that's not really what we're talking about. Current and previous MMOs have done a more basic principle of this by submitting coordinates and action sequences to clients when certain destinations are reached. How about instead of arguing, we just wait to see what innovations come our way? I'm excited at the prospects of such announcements and as a computer enthusiast I would assume most of us are. Guess I'm less cynical then most. You can disagree with the implementation, but you at least have to be a little excited at this sort of idea when you consider the possibilities.


----------



## ShabbyRedTabby

Quote: 





blazeops said:


> PS4.* One main reason is for the NFL package because I don't have Direct TV*. Other reason is I enjoy the PS exclusives such as Uncharted and Last of Us. I was never interested in Halo and most of my FPSes on PC.


 
  Are they offering NFL Sunday Ticket for PS4 owners? Cause I might jump on that so I could finally watch my Vikings.
   
  Also, I agree about PS exclusives. I've grown tired of FPS honestly. The last one I played was Bioshock Infinite and before that was like Halo ODST or something, so it's been a while. I've been growing more love for RPG games.


----------



## kyuuketsuki

Quote: 





shabbyredtabby said:


> Are they offering NFL Sunday Ticket for PS4 owners? Cause I might jump on that so I could finally watch my Vikings.
> 
> Also, I agree about PS exclusives. I've grown tired of FPS honestly. The last one I played was Bioshock Infinite and before that was like Halo ODST or something, so it's been a while. I've been growing more love for RPG games.


 
   
  I'm happy I'm not the only one. I don't even remember my last FPS. I play RPGs and Action Adventure as of late.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





kyuuketsuki said:


> I'm happy I'm not the only one. I don't even remember my last FPS. I play RPGs and Action Adventure as of late.


 
  Wait, does this mean you guys were actually _in_ to FPSes at one point? That's horrible! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  RPGs are definitely my go to genre, and then any story-based action game. I also love platformers, but those are way less common nowadays.


----------



## kyuuketsuki

Quote: 





daleb said:


> Wait, does this mean you guys were actually _in_ to FPSes at one point? That's horrible!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Some, yes. I tried the main stream ones and got bored. I still love Half-Life, and will play 3 if it ever comes out. I've been meaning to try ME series. But that is about it. I do occasionally play ARMA with friends. but those are far from my every day games. I have a stack of RPGs and platformers that I play far more regularly.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





kyuuketsuki said:


> Some, yes. I tried the main stream ones and got bored. I still love Half-Life, and will play 3 if it ever comes out. I've been meaning to try ME series. But that is about it. I do occasionally play ARMA with friends. but those are far from my every day games. I have a stack of RPGs and platformers that I play far more regularly.


 
  I'm okay with FPSes that have a focus on story. Half-Life is obviously one of the better ones. It really comes down to I don't care for online multiplayer, so most FPS games are lost on me.


----------



## AuPhoenix

I think for the next gen I'd go with PS4. I've had bad experiences with the Xbox; it got the ring of death after I had it for a year.


----------



## conquerator2

I guess the Last of Us only solidified my decision to stay with Sony, even if it were only for Naughty Dog alone, not even counting others like Sony Santa Monica, Sucker Punch, Insomniac (RaC)...
TLoU is a game that holds it's own in terms of graphics, storytelling, sound, emotion and even MP is good. Every gamer.should try this game. The Single player is an experience you won't get out of your head easily.
ND is the black horse of Sony right now and the rest of first parties is just the icing on the cake. 
All my opinion of course .


----------



## startyourengine

MLB The Show, and anything Naughty Dog. I'll have to go with PS4.


----------



## HalidePisces

Here's an update on the Index Holdings bankruptcy...

http://www.siliconera.com/2013/08/02/report-sega-sammy-interested-in-bidding-for-atlus-parent-company/

Sega Sammy being among the bidders isn't a surprise. I wonder if we'll get some less expected bidders like during the THQ bankruptcy.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





> All my opinion of course.


 
  I'm pretty sure that's all fact, actually.
   
   
  Quote: 





> Here's an update on the Index Holdings bankruptcy...


 
  I want to know the rest of the companies!


----------



## ShabbyRedTabby

Quote: 





kyuuketsuki said:


> Some, yes. I tried the main stream ones and got bored. I still love Half-Life, and will play 3 if it ever comes out. I've been meaning to try ME series. But that is about it. I do occasionally play ARMA with friends. but those are far from my every day games. I have a stack of RPGs and platformers that I play far more regularly.


 

 Yeah for a while FPS was my main genre. Halo and COD and what not. Then I got bored with them and stopped being interested in video games. But it turns out there are other genres out there and now I'm happy once again


----------



## conquerator2

shabbyredtabby said:


> Yeah for a while FPS was my main genre. Halo and COD and what not. Then I got bored with them and stopped being interested in video games. But it turns out there are other genres out there and now I'm happy once again




0_0 wow!


----------



## ShabbyRedTabby

Quote: 





halidepisces said:


> Atlus is a big name in the East, much more so than in the West. I don't think the big Western publishing companies (EA, Activision-Blizzard, etc.) would be that interested, especially since Atlus' major works don't resonate as well to mainstream Western audiences. Atlus will likely be bought by a Japanese company (Sony, Nintendo, Namco Bandai, etc.) or at the very least an Asian company (GungHo Online Entertainment).


 

 Apparently Sega is seeking to buy Atlus. Sonic the Hedgehog confirmed as P5 protagonist.


----------



## WhiteCrow

Quote: 





shabbyredtabby said:


> Apparently Sega is seeking to buy Atlus. Sonic the Hedgehog confirmed as P5 protagonist.


 

 pl....please dont joke like that.


----------



## daleb

whitecrow said:


> pl....please dont joke like that.


 
  
 I... I'm so sorry....
 I wonder what this will mean for Atlus... Sega, of all companies... So, with sega's partnership with Nintendo and all, might it come to the wii U? Some of the comments are suggesting their games won't be localized anymore. That's a scary thought.
  
  
 Has anyone changed their mind about the console they care for more? I'd like to see if anyone's opinion has managed to change.


----------



## seo24

I prefer PS4 because I can take it anywhere unlike 360 I can play only when I am in house.


----------



## kyuuketsuki

daleb said:


> I... I'm so sorry....
> I wonder what this will mean for Atlus... Sega, of all companies... So, with sega's partnership with Nintendo and all, might it come to the wii U? Some of the comments are suggesting their games won't be localized anymore. That's a scary thought.
> 
> 
> Has anyone changed their mind about the console they care for more? I'd like to see if anyone's opinion has managed to change.


 
  
 Honestly I'm not too worried about localization mainly because Atlus USA is a part of the deal. So as long as that doesn't get shut down, it should be theoretically fine. In fact it might aide other localizations of Sega games, so hopefully another Valkiria Chronicles 3 won't happen. But this is all conjecture. I'm willing to give Sega a shot. They aren't a bad company and there are far worse that could have won. 
  
 And no, I'm still gunning for PS4 over the XBone. Still don't like being watched.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm into JRPGs and FPS games. Does that make me weird? I'm as likely to buy a new CoD as much as a new Final Fantasy. One for quick pick up and play, the other when I wanna immerse myself, and play for hours on end.

They're basically the only two types of games I would pay full value for. Everything else I rent or wait until they're heabily discounted, like on Steam.

As for which system. I'm mostly going for PS4 because they get JRPGs and better exclusives for my taste. I'd love to own an XBOne, but this time around, I'm not gonna spend money on consoles I'll rarely touch. This gen, it makes sense to get whiever has the better exclusives for you, since 3rd party games are gonna be pretty on par regardless of which system you get. Last gen, most 3rd party games looked and played better on the 360, due to it being the lead system.


----------



## oqvist

seo24 said:


> I prefer PS4 because I can take it anywhere unlike 360 I can play only when I am in house.


 
  
 Oh you haven´t been updated on what happened the last two months or so. MS has done a 180 on pretty much everything. They will work the same drm wise. To start with anyway it appears.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I believe hes referring to being able to access your ps4 and most games from the PSVita from anywhere as long as you have a good internet connection.


----------



## jronan2

Im an xbox 360 fan. I originally pre-ordered a xBone (That's what I call it), then I cancelled and found a pre-order for PS4 last week at my local Wal Mart. I think I'm going to get Killzone and maybe COD and take it from there. I wish they just removed the Kinect and lowered it $100, they would be a lot more competitive that way, even if they still sell like crazy. I'm also pissed that UK buyers can get Fifa 14 or Forza with pre-order. US customers get nothing, that isn't right. 
  
 Whatever happens, I will eventually get an xBone for Halo, Forza, maybe Destiny, and Titanfall. MMMMMMM Titanfall. I never had a PS3 so I hope I'm making the right choice from the start.


----------



## daleb

jronan2 said:


> Im an xbox 360 fan. I originally pre-ordered a xBone (That's what I call it), then I cancelled and found a pre-order for PS4 last week at my local Wal Mart. I think I'm going to get Killzone and maybe COD and take it from there. I wish they just removed the Kinect and lowered it $100, they would be a lot more competitive that way, even if they still sell like crazy. I'm also pissed that UK buyers can get Fifa 14 or Forza with pre-order. US customers get nothing, that isn't right.
> 
> Whatever happens, I will eventually get an xBone for Halo, Forza, maybe Destiny, and Titanfall. MMMMMMM Titanfall. I never had a PS3 so I hope I'm making the right choice from the start.


 
 I'd like to ask, does the Xbox have at least a good games that aren't fps? The only game I've really heard of that I'd like on the xbox is Lost Odyssey. Really, the xbox feels like a shooter-only console.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Tales of Vesperia, Star Ocean: The Last Hope (for awhile, it wasn't on the ps3).


----------



## jronan2

daleb said:


> I'd like to ask, does the Xbox have at least a good games that aren't fps? The only game I've really heard of that I'd like on the xbox is Lost Odyssey. Really, the xbox feels like a shooter-only console.


 
  
 Really can't answer that. I grew up playing halo competitively. I would say the 360 is shooter based though, at least most of their exclusives. Shooter games sell, that's probably why.


----------



## Seann

Judging by hardware specs, PS4 stands out.
 It really depends on titles. Personally, PS4 titles look much more appealing. Cross-platform never is problem as long as money talks though


----------



## sadboy

I think I'll buy both eventually, so that I can play the exclusive titles. But considering how I owned one system and bought the slim version of the other, I think choosing one console will suffice for awhile.


----------



## Kain96z

Personally I'm going with the Xbox and its simply a matter of trusting Microsoft's software over Sony. Yes the PS4 has slightly better hardware but I think Microsoft optimizes their software better to the hardware. Just watch for the problems that will arise with multi platform releases like Battlefield 4. It took Sony well over a year to fix the lag input issue that some players experienced with Battlefield 3 on the PS3. It came down to who had the more optimized software and not the Blu ray player that made for a better gaming experience. I'm a battlefield fan boy if you can't tell.  
  
 I have both platforms btw and find that as fare as multi platform games go I do have a better experience with Xbox so far. I will admit that Sony gets the rights to better console exclusive releases for the most part. I guess it comes down to what type of gamer you are. If you want the best multi player experience go with Xbox, if you're a solo gamer that wants a better single player experience go with the PS4.


----------



## conquerator2

kain96z said:


> Personally I'm going with the Xbox and its simply a matter of trusting Microsoft's software over Sony. Yes the PS4 has slightly better hardware but I think Microsoft optimizes their software better to the hardware. Just watch for the problems that will arise with multi platform releases like Battlefield 4. It took Sony well over a year to fix the lag input issue that some players experienced with Battlefield 3 on the PS3. It came down to who had the more optimized software and not the Blu ray player that made for a better gaming experience. I'm a battlefield fan boy if you can't tell.
> 
> I have both platforms btw and find that as fare as multi platform games go I do have a better experience with Xbox so far. I will admit that Sony gets the rights to better console exclusive releases for the most part. I guess it comes down to what type of gamer you are. If you want the best multi player experience go with Xbox, if you're a solo gamer that wants a better single player experience go with the PS4.


 
  
 You know all those problems are associated with the very different architecture Sony chose for the PS3, right?
 Like a very powerful processor but a rather weak graphics chip [originally, they did not want to have a GPU at all] and the not so ideal RAM share distribution [256 + 256, apart from Xbox's 512 chunk]
 It was ultimately very difficult to utilize by 3rd parties as the Unreal Engine and other engines were simply not ideal, which is evident when a custom tailored engine was created for every and each 1st party game, which proved that when utilized right, PS3 was as powerful if not more than the Xbox 360.
 Just look at The Last of Us and Beyond: Two Souls, etc.
  
 For multi-platform releases, 360 proved to be the easier platform to work with and most of the time the games were ported to PS3. While every time PS3 was chosen as the lead platform, the game looked better on it, which was not all that often.
  
 With the PS4, Sony realized their mistake and are doing all the right things to fix it. As a matter of fact, PS4 has been confirmed as the easier, more powerful and better platform to develop for by the developers themselves, not even talking about 1st parties.
  
 It had very little to do with Sony's OS, mostly it had to do with the unfortunate choice of architecture, which has been corrected this time around.
  
 If you want to talk about software, the Microsoft's XBOX ONE graphics drivers are working only so-so, while Sony's seem to be doing quite fine + MS is sticking with 3 OS. 3 operating systems for 1 console. Does that sound easy to you?
  
 If you search a bit around the internet, you will find the very information I am posting right now. So next time, please get your facts straight.
 Thank you.
  
 Ultimately, Xbox 360 was the platform of choice for developers and deservingly so. This time everything points at the PS4 as the platform to use the most.
  
 Hope this clears it up somewhat.


----------



## barleyguy

I'll probably end up with a PS4, but I'm not in a hurry.
  
 I already have a Wii U, and a 360.  I bought the Wii U Wind Waker bundle.  I've really been enjoying it.  I primarily play on the gamepad screen, so I'm using almost like you would a portable.  I like to sit in a recliner and play on the screen that's on the controller.  I just like the ergonomics of it, and it makes vintage Virtual Console games less ugly than on my big TV.
  
 My next purchase might be a PS Vita, because it allows remote play of a PS4, which would give a similar experience to the Wii U gamepad.  And Vita has a few good games of its own.


----------



## jerry216216

playstation all the time, i like those japanese RPG game


----------



## reddyxm

I'm so happy PS4 is region free.


----------



## jerry216216

region free 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  that's a super bonus !!!


----------



## daleb

Welp, I recently ordered the Oculus Rift. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now I'm not getting either console!


----------



## conquerator2

daleb said:


> Welp, I recently ordered the Oculus Rift.  Now I'm not getting either console!




Hmph, lol.


----------



## daleb

Then again, the PS4 will be getting virtual reality support, so I'd still get that at some point.


----------



## HeadAmp

PlayStation has always had the better hardware than xbox, I just do not like the way that M$ is marketing the xbox.  "HAAYYYY EVERYB0DY, L00000Q!!  THE NU XBOX DOES EVERYTHUNG BUTT PLEH GAMES PROPERLY!!!!  WE MAIYDE YOUSE GUISE AYY MEEDEEAH BOCKS THAT ALLOOUZ YOU TO...XBOX GO HOME, SPORTS, SPORTS, SPORTS, SPORTS, SPORTS, SPORTS, XBOX GO HOME...SPORTS, SPORTS, SPORTS, SPORTS...MOVIES, MOVIES, NETFLIX, NETFLIX, XBOX GO HOME!! HHHHHHNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGG!!!"


----------



## Vipers

Even though I have had 2 rings of death on 3 Xbox's I have just ordered an Xbox One, mainly because I have invested too many hours accumulating all my achievement points and most of my mates have Xbox's, I'm sure the PS4 will be pretty awesome and I may end up getting one eventually but for now it is Xbox one all the way


----------



## SaigaJS

I'll be getting the Xbox One. Easy decision considering that's what all my friends are getting, that's where competitive console gaming is going, and Halo, which I'll probably end up disappointed in. Though, I'll probably end up waiting a little while until they start selling it without the Kinect.


----------



## Jason Bourne

Any word any new headphones from Sony or Microsoft to accompany there new system launches?


----------



## Vipers

I have to admit that I have never used the Kinect and am looking forward to having a play although it is probably not my kind of thing.
  
 I play a lot of racing games, I use a cockpit setup, so if they can implement Kinect correctly so you can look around within the car and out the side windows and up to the rear view mirror, then that would be pretty cool, saying that it may already be implemented in to the latest Forza but I would love it in the Codemaster F1 games.


----------



## reddyxm

I'm sorry my Brazilian gamer friends. 
  
 http://www.polygon.com/2013/10/17/4848222/ps4-price-brazil


----------



## conquerator2

Unfortunate ;(
Though I am positive it's not Sony's fault but the government's... Or so I have read....
I'd import if I were you.


----------



## estreeter

Wikipedia has the PS4 launch only a month or so away - seems like we waited for at least 5 years ..... 

I'll wait for the initial hysteria to die down then either buy one or look for a discounted PS3 somewhere around April/May 2014. Will be interesting to see the queues in that first week of madness - Sony should be sitting on a goldmine with this thing, but they've shown in the past that they dont always have the marketing to match their engineering.


----------



## HammyTown

jason bourne said:


> Any word any new headphones from Sony or Microsoft to accompany there new system launches?


 
 Polk 4 Shot looks interesting.  Per the description on amazon it appears the XBOX One will transmit game and chat audio to the controller; then there's just one cable from the controller to the Polk 4 Shot.  I assume the Turtle Beach XO seven works similarly.  Helps explain why they have a proprietary jack on the controller and the headphones are cheaper if simulated surround is being done by the XBOX One (or headphone audio from the game?).


----------



## HighFive316

XBoxOne for the Halo, but if available in the budget... Why not both? :-D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgk-lA12FBk


----------



## CantScareMe

I wonder how noisy these consoles would be. With my xbox slim, even when playing installed games (disk is read only at the beginning) it's still a beast in noise and vibration. Had to put 5 layers of rubber mats beneath it to deaden vibrations.
  
 Wonder how good/poor the new one's going to be.


----------



## HammyTown

The better HW specs on the PS4 makes me want to go that route, but since I play mostly FPS I'll probably go xbox again for Titanfall and Halo 5.   I really don't want Kinect though and most of my gaming is with a projector setup so I can't wave my arms about without blocking the image from the projector anyway.  I know MS had said there won't be an xbox one sold without Kinect, but I wonder if PS4 sales are significantly higher through the holiday if in the spring there will be a version sold without kinect.  I also may be interested in getting a Titanfall themed edition if one is available.


----------



## Makuta11

PS4, largely due to Sony's exclusive titles.


----------



## conquerator2

makuta11 said:


> PS4, largely due to Sony's exclusive titles.


 
 This ^


----------



## CantScareMe

makuta11 said:


> PS4, largely due to Sony's exclusive titles.


 
  
 ....like.... gears of war....
  
 That game being exclusive to the Xbox is the single reason I have one. Otherwise Playstation all the way.


----------



## jronan2

Anyone think you'll be able to buy an xbox one on launch day? I had one pre-ordered but stupidly decided to cancel my pre-order and just get the PS4, now I really want an xbox. anyone think they will be available in store before the holidays?


----------



## conquerator2

jronan2 said:


> Anyone think you'll be able to buy an xbox one on launch day? I had one pre-ordered but stupidly decided to cancel my pre-order and just get the PS4, now I really want an xbox. anyone think they will be available in store before the holidays?


 
  
 You've done the right thing IMO.
  
 Not sure about XBONE availability,


----------



## jronan2

IDK I'm an xbox fan, even used to play halo competitively. Never owned a PS3. I'm getting PS4 for Killzone (never played any previous KZ games before, but it looks pretty cool) and BF4. The xbox one was always in the cards for me I was just pissed about the specs/raw power compared to the PS4 and having to buy with Kinect. I really want to play Forza on launch


----------



## conquerator2

jronan2 said:


> IDK I'm an xbox fan, even used to play halo competitively. Never owned a PS3. I'm getting PS4 for Killzone (never played any previous KZ games before, but it looks pretty cool) and BF4. The xbox one was always in the cards for me I was just pissed about the specs/raw power compared to the PS4 and having to buy with Kinect. I really want to play Forza on launch


 
  
 I personally cannot justify buying the ONE but that's me.
 I am paying 100 more for a console that comes bundled with weaker specs and a camera...
 I mean, I understand you are in it for the exclusives but I think I can assure you you're gonna like the Sony 1st parties as much as you liked MS's.
 The ONE price is bound to drop by a 100 soon enough so I'd just wait it out if you want to buy the ONE at a later time.
 By then, you should know better anyway.


----------



## dailysmoker

I always played Playstation....1,2 and now 3 after the xbox 360 that i sold,but stupid cause the controller of the xbox is so much better.And xbox live is better and more fun then playstation plus so if i get a new console it will be the new xbox......


----------



## lodmaster

I've always been one to wait a bit to see where new consoles go. I'm a huge fan of Playstation Plus, but am a bit worried about the quality of games it will give away now that its a requirement to play online.


----------



## estreeter

Dunno - the sad little geek in me really wants to see what a good FPS looks like on a PS4 hooked up to a 4D TV, complete with a decent surround system pumping out the audio. All up, I reckon it wont cost more than 20K to make that dream a reality


----------



## Accoun

Shots fired. NeoGAF insiders say that Call Of Duty: Ghosts will be only 720p on Xbone, compared to PS4's 1080p.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=702055


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

accoun said:


> Shots fired. NeoGAF insiders say that Call Of Duty: Ghosts will be only 720p on Xbone, compared to PS4's 1080p.
> 
> http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=702055




Wow. the XBone is already looking aged...

More expensive, and running games at 2006 resoltuions.

Congratulations, Microsoft. You're pulling a Nintendo.

Yes, graphic doesn't make a game, but it proves that the system is not gonna age well.


----------



## conquerator2

M$: "But...but...but our system is balanced for the optimal gaming experience!"
Sony: "Our console is made for gamers and is the most powerful and it's 399"

Hmmm... Which one to choose?...


----------



## dailysmoker

Before we have 4k games it's like 5 years further....then 4k tv's are normal priced....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You've git an extremely long wait for native 4k gaming. The new systems will eventually struggle with 1080p once games start really taxing their powers. The only thing that can do native 4k gaming is extremely powerful pcs with multiple high end gfx cards.

You'll have to wait for a PS5 or Xbox 1080 for 4k gaming. By then PC gaming will probably be attempting 8k gaming...


----------



## barleyguy

The new generation of PC graphics cards, AMD Hawaii and NVidia Titan, will do 4K on a single card, though the first releases of that generation are only hitting 25 FPS or so.  But on the PC side it won't be too long of a wait for 4K if you're willing to spend $600 on a graphics card.  (Also the CPU to support it as well.  4K can get CPU bound on anything less than a top end i7.)
  
 I think the PS4 does 4K video decoding, so while games won't be an option, watching movies at 4K might be. 
  
 That's assuming that any content companies will distribute their movies in 4K.  Hollywood is really paranoid at this point about distributing 4K, because that's what movie theaters use and they don't want bootleg theaters.  Also, doing 4K without artifacts takes about 40 Megabits of bandwidth, so prices would probably need to be higher to pay for the bandwidth.


----------



## daleb

I feel that resolution isn't all that important. I would much rather have higher frame rates and more powerful lighting engines. I kind of would like devs to stick to 1080p rather than go 4k and lose a lot of the beauty.
  
 I downloaded a 1 GB 6 minute video of killzone gameplay. I wanted to see how high of quality the ps4 goes. Did you know that Killzone was going to be 290 GBs? they had to completely rework the compression algorithms to figure out how to get it down to 40. This game has pretty amazing graphics. Still not Skyrim-but-heavily-modded levels, but amazing nonetheless.
  
 Edit: Something I'm wondering is how within the next 4 years or so, Oculus wants to release a 4k rift. Sony is also designing an hmd for the ps4, so the ps4 will have to deal with rendering 2 images. I wonder how the graphics will look for ps4 vr games? Also, definitely another huge reason to get a ps4 over an xbox one.One will have vr, one won't.


----------



## barleyguy

daleb said:


> I feel that resolution isn't all that important. I would much rather have higher frame rates and more powerful lighting engines. I kind of would like devs to stick to 1080p rather than go 4k and lose a lot of the beauty.
> 
> I downloaded a 1 GB 6 minute video of killzone gameplay. I wanted to see how high of quality the ps4 goes. Did you know that Killzone was going to be 290 GBs? they had to completely rework the compression algorithms to figure out how to get it down to 40. This game has pretty amazing graphics. Still not Skyrim-but-heavily-modded levels, but amazing nonetheless.
> 
> Edit: Something I'm wondering is how within the next 4 years or so, Oculus wants to release a 4k rift. Sony is also designing an hmd for the ps4, so the ps4 will have to deal with rendering 2 images. I wonder how the graphics will look for ps4 vr games? Also, definitely another huge reason to get a ps4 over an xbox one.One will have vr, one won't.


 

 The current rift is one display split optically.  If they do a 4K rift, it will probably be the same; it will probably be 4K for both eyes, so roughly 1980x2160 per eye.  Splitting a single display gets around lots of nasty synchronization issues.  John Carmack covers it in detail in his 2012 keynote, if you care that much about the details.  I watch them every year because I think he's fascinating.
  
 A couple of other notes about rendering for the rift: Since it's only one display split in half, rendering for it is basically just putting a left eye image on the left half of the screen, and a right eye image on the right half of the screen.  It's a little more complicated because the rift uses fish eye lenses between your eyes and the display.  That increases the field of vision.  Without the special lenses, it would be "like looking at the world through a pair of toilet paper tubes".
  
 But since it's really just split screen, the rendering could be done on normal HDMI with software, just like rendering split screen multiplayer.  The part that's special as far as I/O is the head tracking.  When you are wearing the rift and move your head, your view of the world moves too.  That requires getting the head tracking info from the Rift back to the console.
  
 Overall though, I think if they want the Rift to work on the XBone, they could accomplish it without a significant amount of special hardware on the console end.


----------



## daleb

barleyguy said:


> The current rift is one display split optically.  If they do a 4K rift, it will probably be the same; it will probably be 4K for both eyes, so roughly 1980x2160 per eye.  Splitting a single display gets around lots of nasty synchronization issues.  John Carmack covers it in detail in his 2012 keynote, if you care that much about the details.  I watch them every year because I think he's fascinating.
> 
> A couple of other notes about rendering for the rift: Since it's only one display split in half, rendering for it is basically just putting a left eye image on the left half of the screen, and a right eye image on the right half of the screen.  It's a little more complicated because the rift uses fish eye lenses between your eyes and the display.  That increases the field of vision.  Without the special lenses, it would be "like looking at the world through a pair of toilet paper tubes".
> 
> ...


 
 its not 4k for both eyes individually, its 4k split between 2 eyes. Yes, I do watch them, too.
  
 Also, its not just split screen, the rendering is a LOT more complicated than that. Otherwise, there wouldn't be the decrease in FPS you see. What you are referring to is called "Zbuffering", and even that will still take up a good amount of power to pull off right. It is a common technique to create the 2 images, but it makes for some very lousy 3d. Sony will not use that very often for the rift, maybe for a few effects demos, but for actual games, not at all. If they want to give people the full shock of 3d, they have to do geometric 3d rendering, which takes up tons more processing power.
  
 One of the more common, native ways it is done in game is by using 2 cameras instead of 1, and putting them at the same distances your eyes are. This is actually the method I'll be using, because its natively supported in Unity. Also because I'm not good enough to make use of the other 2 methods XD


----------



## barleyguy

daleb said:


> its not 4k for both eyes individually, its 4k split between 2 eyes. Yes, I do watch them, too.
> 
> Also, its not just split screen, the rendering is a LOT more complicated than that. Otherwise, there wouldn't be the decrease in FPS you see. What you are referring to is called "Zbuffering", and even that will still take up a good amount of power to pull off right. It is a common technique to create the 2 images, but it makes for some very lousy 3d. Sony will not use that very often for the rift, maybe for a few effects demos, but for actual games, not at all. If they want to give people the full shock of 3d, they have to do geometric 3d rendering, which takes up tons more processing power.
> 
> One of the more common, native ways it is done in game is by using 2 cameras instead of 1, and putting them at the same distances your eyes are. This is actually the method I'll be using, because its natively supported in Unity. Also because I'm not good enough to make use of the other 2 methods XD


 

 I did actually say that it was 4K split between 2 eyes, though I may have worded it badly.  Full 4K is 3840x2160, so half of 4K would be 1920x2160.
  
 Since every frame that ever goes through the device has to have a geometric transformation for the same lens, it seems like something you could create a lookup table for.  It would take up some RAM, but it would probably be faster than re-computing the transformation every time.  To create the lookup table you'd just have to run the transformation, keep track of where every pixel came from and went to, and store it in the table.  It's possible that the table would have to be 3D though since the lens effect may vary by distance.
  
 Just a wacky idea from the peanut gallery.  I'm not actually going to be writing any games for VR...


----------



## sjsu26

I loved the PS2 and then the Xbox 360. I felt the Xbox controller and Xbox Live was perfect for FPS like COD, which is why pre-revealing I really wanted to like the Xbox One and thought it was a no brainer. But then MS screwed a lot of things up e.g. all the policies/restrictions that have now been removed and mandatory kinect. So now I'm leaning towards the PS4 because the launch model looks already slim enough for me despite future revisions and the new dual shock 4 looks quite impressive (hopefully it plays as good as it looks). While the Xbox One, I feel can make some improvements such as a slimmer model and *crossing fingers but highly doubtful* kinect-less model.


----------



## Accoun

The story so far (long post, so a link instead of a quote):
  
 http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=87786946&postcount=2018


----------



## conquerator2

Also, yikes - http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-battlefield-4-next-gen-vs-pc-face-off-preview
  
 Even if the upscaler is decent, it still can't hold up to native higher resolution textures.
 Also, the over-saturation seems to be back... crashed blacks, yay?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Digital Foundry Admits To Botching Battlefield 4 PS4/XB1 Video Capture
  
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=706051


----------



## conquerator2

fegefeuer said:


> Digital Foundry Admits To Botching Battlefield 4 PS4/XB1 Video Capture
> 
> http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=706051




The clips, but the text is correct.
PS4 still deemed the superior version,contrary to what the "tempered" videos show.


----------



## reddyxm

The 15th of November can't come any sooner.


----------



## daleb

I just got the processing email for my Oculus Rift! SOON!


----------



## estreeter

I'm hoping I live long enough to see the PS4 in the stores - feel like its been at least 10 years since they started marketing it


----------



## kavigounder

At this stage the PS4, I'm not planning on getting either on release, I had both xbox and ps3 this generation, ps4 seems to have more games that appeal to me, however I'll probably end up having both by the end of the generation.


----------



## daleb

Haha, I found a picture that puts my thoughts on the controllers much more simply.
  

  
 People saying that the Playstation controller is the unsymmetrical one... You don't put your hands on the face buttons. They don't belong there. Your two thumbs stay on the analog sticks the entire time. If you do end up having to press a face button, you're thumb flies to the face button, clicks it, and flies back faster than should be perceivable by the human eye. Why would you ever leave the thumb on the face buttons?
  
 Also, why would your thumb ever go up? When I let my hands go limp, my thumbs point sideways, not up. You have to constantly be holding your thumb pointing in the wrong direction to use that left stick. It makes the Xbox controller so hard to use! It is so weird for me to think that most people's thumbs don't naturally rest above the dualshock analog sticks.


----------



## conquerator2

daleb said:


> Haha, I found a picture that puts my thoughts on the controllers much more simply.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I would take that for granted as well, though it seems only certain gamers can comprehend it


----------



## Muinarc

The problem isn't what that picture is pointing out, its the way those sticks line up in relation to where the controller places your palm. (Personally) The PS controller kills the joint at the base of my thumb.


It's like putting your 4 fingers on the F1-F4 keys on a keyboard and your thumb on the space bar = DualShock

Then doing the same and putting the tip of your thumb on the B or N key = Xbox

Its a difference of like 1/2" but it takes so much strain off.


----------



## Muinarc

Ugh it double posted.


----------



## daleb

muinarc said:


> The problem isn't what that picture is pointing out, its the way those sticks line up in relation to where the controller places your palm. (Personally) The PS controller kills the joint at the base of my thumb.
> 
> 
> It's like putting your 4 fingers on the F1-F4 keys on a keyboard and your thumb on the space bar = DualShock
> ...


 
 I... I either don't get what you're saying, or you have a really strange keyboard.
  
 Maybe you're putting too much pressure on the controller? It should float in your hand. Just make sure the levitator is on.


----------



## Muinarc

daleb said:


> I... I either don't get what you're saying, or you have a really strange keyboard.
> 
> Maybe you're putting too much pressure on the controller? It should float in your hand. Just make sure the levitator is on.


 
 Lol, it's just a normal full sized desktop keyboard..... but don't overthink it..... long story short, the position of the sticks on a PS controller strain my hand after long sessions.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The problem with the PS3 analog layout is that your left thumb is almost always on the stick. The placement is more natural on the 360 controller. Having owned both systems for so long, you'd be crazy in thinking the PS3 stick layout was comparable or better than the 360 layout.

The right analog being on the bottom half is perfect, because you are constantly switching between the buttons and the stick. Also many games won't even utilize the right stick all that much, wbile the left stick is always used.

I will always prefer the 360 layout, but the PS layout is still functional.


----------



## daleb

mad lust envy said:


> The problem with the PS3 analog layout is that your left thumb is almost always on the stick. The placement is more natural on the 360 controller. Having owned both systems for so long, you'd be crazy in thinking the PS3 stick layout was comparable or better than the 360 layout.
> 
> The right analog being on the bottom half is perfect, because you are constantly switching between the buttons and the stick. Also many games won't even utilize the right stick all that much, wbile the left stick is always used.
> 
> I will always prefer the 360 layout, but the PS layout is still functional.


 
 My right thumb never leaves the right thumb stick for longer than 1/5th of a second. My left thumb never leaves the left stick, either. The muscles on my thumbs say that to keep them pointing upward, like you have to do with the xbox, is actually moving a muscle. If I let my thumbs go limp, they point outward, and actually end up resting right over the playstation analog sticks.
  
 I still find it weird everyone else's thumbs DON'T do this...


----------



## conquerator2

daleb said:


> My right thumb never leaves the right thumb stick for longer than 1/5th of a second. My left thumb never leaves the left stick, either. The muscles on my thumbs say that to keep them pointing upward, like you have to do with the xbox, is actually moving a muscle. If I let my thumbs go limp, they point outward, and actually end up resting right over the playstation analog sticks.
> 
> I still find it weird everyone else's thumbs DON'T do this...



I know, right?


----------



## daleb

conquerator2 said:


> I know, right?


 

 Wait, so its not just me?


----------



## Muinarc

On the topic of this thread.... I was going to get a PS4 as I wanted to change the types of games I have been playing by changing camps. However, the news that they arent going to support DNLA/MP3/etc (at launch at least) kinda reduces my desire to own one. I want to use other media capabilities with a new console, something the Xbone should do, and the PS3 did. Not to say the community wont make work-arounds for these short commings.

...but I have been wanting to make a new HTPC anyway so I dunno still.


----------



## daleb

muinarc said:


> On the topic of this thread.... I was going to get a PS4 as I wanted to change the types of games I have been playing by changing camps. However, the news that they arent going to support DNLA/MP3/etc (at launch at least) kinda reduces my desire to own one. I want to use other media capabilities with a new console, something the Xbone should do, and the PS3 did. Not to say the community wont make work-arounds for these short commings.
> 
> ...but I have been wanting to make a new HTPC anyway so I dunno still.


 

 The PS3 didn't support it either at launch. I have no idea why they do this. An important point here is the xbone does not take normal inputs. You have to either buy a headset specifically meant for the xbox one, or buy a special converter just to use your headphones :/


----------



## Seann

Personally X Box joystick is quite odd


----------



## imeem

if i was forced to buy a new gen console, it would be the ps4 because of no region lock and the jap games i want only comes to ps4. But if i have free will, i wouldn't buy either because you need to pay for online.


----------



## Muinarc

Xbone is region free.... but yes the PS4 will easily get more Japanese games.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The funny thing about jrpgs is that this current gen, all my fave jrpgs came out on the 360, even though the ps3 had more volume. Lost Odyssey, Tales of Vesperia, Star Ocean IV were all 360 exclusives in America (though the latter two eventjally came out on PS3, though Vesoeria never made it to the states on PS3).


----------



## PraetorXyn

I'm sticking exclusively to PC.
  
 Microsoft has just come out and said that all of their first party titles will come to PC.
 I've never cared much for Sony's exclusives as I consider their blockbuster ones interactive movies.


----------



## conquerator2

praetorxyn said:


> I'm sticking exclusively to PC.
> 
> Microsoft has just come out and said that all of their first party titles will come to PC.
> *I've never cared much for Sony's exclusives as I consider their blockbuster ones interactive movies.*


 
 Sir, you're an ignorant.
 Thank you


----------



## reddyxm

conquerator2 said:


> Sir, you're an ignorant.
> Thank you


 
  
 He's got an opinion. No need to push. LOL
  
 If its true that first party Xbone games are coming to PC, then no reason for me to ever get the Xbone. So it'll be PC, PS4 and Wii U for me. \o/


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dead rising 3 on XB1 is 720p/30fps. Oh lawd. 2006 all over again.

Multiplat games are either gonna look better and compare decently against the PS4, or there is gonna be a wider gap once devs start making gamaes that task the systems even more...


----------



## PraetorXyn

mad lust envy said:


> Dead rising 3 on XB1 is 720p/30fps. Oh lawd. 2006 all over again.
> 
> Multiplat games are either gonna look better and compare decently against the PS4, or there is gonna be a wider gap once devs start making gamaes that task the systems even more...


 
 This is why I don't bother with consoles any more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## cswann1

praetorxyn said:


> I'm sticking exclusively to PC.
> 
> Microsoft has just come out and said that all of their first party titles will come to PC.
> I've never cared much for Sony's exclusives as I consider their blockbuster ones interactive movies.


 
 Guess you aren't a fan of driving sims? 
  
 Gran Turismo is THE reason I want to own_ any_ console at all.


----------



## Accoun

WipEout HD > Gran Turismo  

Guess the optimal situation will repeat, with PC for everything and PlayStation for those exclusive games (Valkyria Chronicles was easily in my top 3 this gen).


----------



## PraetorXyn

cswann1 said:


> Guess you aren't a fan of driving sims?
> 
> Gran Turismo is THE reason I want to own_ any_ console at all.


 
  


accoun said:


> WipEout HD > Gran Turismo
> 
> Guess the optimal situation will repeat, with PC for everything and PlayStation for those exclusive games (Valkyria Chronicles was easily in my top 3 this gen).


 
 rFactor is a real racing sim, and it's PC exclusive.
 Gran Turismo and Forza just pretend to be racing sims.


----------



## conquerator2

praetorxyn said:


> rFactor is a real racing sim, and it's PC exclusive.
> *Gran Turismo and Forza just pretend to be racing sims.*


 
 Your claims are killing me 
 Alas, the master PC race


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> Dead rising 3 on XB1 is 720p/30fps. Oh lawd. 2006 all over again.
> 
> Multiplat games are either gonna look better and compare decently against the PS4, or there is gonna be a wider gap once devs start making gamaes that task the systems even more...


 
 PS4 multiplats are gonna look better this time around, y'know :]


----------



## kyuuketsuki

conquerator2 said:


> Your claims are killing me
> Alas, the master PC race


 
  
 It is painfully true though. rFactor and iRacing both trounce over Forza and GT in terms of absolute realism. However, I still love GT, and even if it isn't fully realistic, it is still a fun game to play. And perhaps more so than the hyper realistic PC racing sims. They are real enough, while still not being fully realistic.


----------



## daleb

My Rift just showed up a few days ago. I thought I would be getting a PS4 a few years down the road, but now I'm reconsidering that.


----------



## cswann1

kyuuketsuki said:


> It is painfully true though. rFactor and iRacing both trounce over Forza and GT in terms of absolute realism. However, I still love GT, and even if it isn't fully realistic, it is still a fun game to play. And perhaps more so than the hyper realistic PC racing sims. They are real enough, while still not being fully realistic.


 
 Agreed. I know full well GT is not a realistic driving sim.   How realistic can it be when you t-bone a wall at 300K/hr and keep on rolling LOL
  
 But I've been a long-time fan of the series and still consider it a benchmark to compare other driving/racing games.  But admittedly haven't tried many others.  I've never wanted to drive/race on my PC for fear of wanting to go out and spend a few grand on a F1 cockpit, complete with carbon fiber seat and Momo steering wheel.


----------



## estreeter

Which is the best platform for FPS atm ? Nothing cerebral - I just like running around in games like Crysis with nice scenery and lots of weaponry, although Killzone-style shooters wear pretty thin - often repetitious 'factory' style levels. Loved the CoD series, if that helps, and zombie shooters are my all-time fave. 
  
 Thanks,
  
 estreeter


----------



## conquerator2

estreeter said:


> Which is the best platform for FPS atm ? Nothing cerebral - I just like running around in games like Crysis with nice scenery and lots of weaponry, although Killzone-style shooters wear pretty thin - often repetitious 'factory' style levels. Loved the CoD series, if that helps, and zombie shooters are my all-time fave.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> estreeter


 
 I would say the PS4?
 Most of those games are multiplatform but they are probably gonna look and run better on Sony console this time around.
 The new Killzone looks much more open this time around too.
 You'll also have some pretty interesting exclusives that could fit your bill.
 My 0.2.


----------



## imeem

estreeter said:


> Which is the best platform for FPS atm ? Nothing cerebral - I just like running around in games like Crysis with nice scenery and lots of weaponry, although Killzone-style shooters wear pretty thin - often repetitious 'factory' style levels. Loved the CoD series, if that helps, and zombie shooters are my all-time fave.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> estreeter


 
 a lot of people would say PC. But since this a ps4 vs. xbone, pc is not a option.


----------



## estreeter

Been there and done it with the PC - not interested in having to upgrade every 18 months at the whim of game developers.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://www.videogamer.com/ps4/killzone_shadow_fall/news/download_killzone_shadow_fall_footage_running_in_1080p_at_60_frames_per_second.html

That finally looks like what I expect a game to look like. websites never show how games truly look. this is the first case of a video looking like my actual expectations.

KZ is probably gonna be my first game.


----------



## estreeter

OK - looks like I may have shot my big mouth off a little too quickly re KZ - even the screenshots look so much better than the earlier editions of the game. I felt much the same way in those games as I did in Halo (every Halo ..) - run around a level that looks very similar to an earlier level shooting basically either pathetic midgets or leaping 'panthers'. This looks more like a world I want to explore:


----------



## reddyxm

The PS4 launch titles looks so uninteresting  that I cancelled my PO on amazon. 
  
 I'm mainly waiting for KH3 and FFXV anyways.


----------



## conquerator2

Well, that tends to be the case with launches...
 In a year or two, there will be lots of great, exclusive games for it as all the first parties are working or a next-gen title :]
 Still I did not preorder one, but am sure to buy the PS4 early next year/Xmas :]


----------



## imeem

reddyxm said:


> The PS4 launch titles looks so uninteresting  that I cancelled my PO on amazon.
> 
> I'm mainly waiting for KH3 and FFXV anyways.


 
 don't all consoles have bad launch titles?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I want Killzone and maybe Need For Speed Rivals. I like arcadey racing games.


----------



## barleyguy

mad lust envy said:


> I want Killzone and maybe Need For Speed Rivals. I like arcadey racing games.


 

 I do too.  It seems like every other Need for Speed game sucks though, since the main studio only makes one every two years, so the off years are another developer.  I had huge hopes for Need for Speed The Run; I was hoping it would be like a modern version of Rad Racer or Outrun.  But instead they bogged it down with section time limits that were necessary to progress, completely ruining the flow of the game IMO.
  
 I think Rivals is an "off year" Need for Speed, but I have high hopes for it anyway.
  
 I'm mainly an RPG player, and also like climbing games like Tomb Raider and Prince of Persia.  I'm sure PS4 will have a great new version of Uncharted.  I'm also willing to bet the Tomb Raider reboot will spawn sequels.  I'm not sure what's ahead on the RPG side (other than FFXV), but there is sure to be some great things there too.  100% chance Bethesda is working on another Elder Scrolls.  Skyrim was great; Oblivion I wanted to love but I never connected with it.
  
 Like I said earlier, I'm not in a hurry but will end up with a PS4, maybe sometime in 2014.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have NFS: The Run and the last Hot Pursuit. I actually liked The Run. It felt like a movie.

My biggest let down? Ridge racer Unbounded. Man, what a terrible excuse for a game. The level design is basically like a create a level mode ALL the time. The Run and HP are at least pretty to look at.

Still, my all time fave racing game is Burnout Revenge on the 360. What a masterpiece. I didn't like Paradise. It was confusing to get around.

I also love the drift mechanic Ridge Racers (RR6, RR7, RR and RR2 on the PSP). They're all very much the same game, but I had a lot of fun with them. The Vita Ridge Racer is a travesty. It runs worse than the PSP games. It's inexcusable.

From what I've seen of Rivals... it looks fun.


----------



## reddyxm

imeem said:


> don't all consoles have bad launch titles?


 
  
 If I didn't already have a PC, then I would opt for BF4 or Ghosts. But this is terrible. Everything is a port.


----------



## estreeter

12 months - you'll be upgrading your PC ($$$$) and we'll be cranking exclusive PS4 titles - it never ends. The game I want will *always* be on the other platform


----------



## estreeter

Surprised ? Nah ...
  
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/playstation-network-experiencing-connection-issues-following-ps4-launch/1100-6416203/
  
Sony has confirmed that PlayStation Network in North America and Canada is suffering connection issues following the midnight launch of the PlayStation 4.

"The PlayStation Network is currently experiencing *extrememely* [sic] high volume, some gamers may experience some difficulty connecting," said Sony on its support site. The original post has now been removed.

"We ask for your patience," it added.

Some users attempting to connect to PlayStation Network are being met with error codes E-80E80034 and NW-31453-6.

Those affected by the errors are reporting that they are unable to download the PlayStation 4's day one update directly through the console. Those prepared to manually install the 1.50 update can fetch it from the PlayStation site and load it on to a USB stick.

The 1.50 firmware for PlayStation 4 is required to enable many of the system's features, including Remote Play with a Vita, party chat, and Blu-Ray movie support.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Still waiting on mine from UPS. I'm not surprised about PSN crashing though.


----------



## evilhippie

My PS4 seems to have fallen victim to the ubiquitous blue light of death (BLOD) error which has been plaguing thousands of units, apparently.  Theres a 75 page thread on Sony's official forums full of people with similar problems. 
  
 Basically, I turned off the console last night and attempted to turn it on this morning, and the thing just would not do anything.  No matter what I did, it would just flash the same blue light over and over again do nothing.  After unplugging, replugging, restarting, etc for 30 minutes, eventually I heard the fan spin up to 100% for a second and the thing began to work fine, somehow.  I figured that would be the end of my problems, but an hour ago I decided to try to replace the drive with a 1tb seagate, since its an easy hardware swap.
  
 Well, after taking out the original drive and attempting to boot the new one into safe mode, it appears my ps4's recovery is completely corrupted, as it just flashes a blue light twice and will not boot to safe mode.  It seems that I was shipped a ps4 either without a recovery partition or a corrupted one, so I cannot even get to the menu to initialize the new drive.  To make things even more fun, when I tried to put the original drive back in and reboot, it now is stuck in the blue light of death again. 
  
 Basically I have to return this one to amazon and hope for the best with the next one... I've already messed around with a few others that friends have received and none have the problems mine seems to have.  Just a forewarning that you might have problems with your brand new ps4s at this point in time... hopefully the hardware flaws will be fixed soon on a wider scale.
  
 And for those who are interested, here's the original thread from the Sony forums:
  
http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/PlayStation-4-Support/Broken-PlayStation-4-Systems/td-p/42122503


----------



## conquerator2

evilhippie said:


> My PS4 seems to have fallen victim to the ubiquitous blue light of death (BLOD) error which has been plaguing thousands of units, apparently.  Theres a 75 page thread on Sony's official forums full of people with similar problems.
> 
> Basically, I turned off the console last night and attempted to turn it on this morning, and the thing just would not do anything.  No matter what I did, it would just flash the same blue light over and over again do nothing.  After unplugging, replugging, restarting, etc for 30 minutes, eventually I heard the fan spin up to 100% for a second and the thing began to work fine, somehow.  I figured that would be the end of my problems, but an hour ago I decided to try to replace the drive with a 1tb seagate, since its an easy hardware swap.
> 
> ...


 
 I am sorry for your problems :/
 But to put it into perspective, we are hopefully talking about like 10.000/1.5 mil shipped, so 7.5% roughly, right?
 It's not a small number but in comparison to the RROD, which had a failure rate between 33% and 50%, it's still within boundaries.
 The first PS3s had a similar failure rate, me thinks.
 Regardless, this number will get only better and there are gonna be less and less units with problems once Sony discovers the culprit.
 Again, sorry for your loss though!


----------



## evilhippie

Maybe not, I've seen nasty rumors like this one popping up on the net about a certain factory hiring unpaid, forced college interns over the summer... the whole thing is quite interesting, though I don't believe this information has been definitely confirmed or not.  Either way, mine was made in that factory in August   Amazon has already agreed to replace it when more stock comes in, so it's just a waiting game from here.  It was fun for the 3 hours it worked though!
  
http://epicbattleaxe.com/profiles/blogs/ps4-allegations-chinese-factory-used-illegal-workers-cause-of?xg_source=activity


----------



## conquerator2

evilhippie said:


> Maybe not, I've seen nasty rumors like this one popping up on the net about a certain factory hiring unpaid, forced college interns over the summer... the whole thing is quite interesting, though I don't believe this information has been definitely confirmed or not.  Either way, mine was made in that factory in August   Amazon has already agreed to replace it when more stock comes in, so it's just a waiting game from here.  It was fun for the 3 hours it worked though!
> 
> http://epicbattleaxe.com/profiles/blogs/ps4-allegations-chinese-factory-used-illegal-workers-cause-of?xg_source=activity


 
  
 Wow...


----------



## evilhippie

So I was able to get my system exchanged at the sony store for a brand new one that worked... amazon had put me on a waiting list, but sony really came through on this one.  They said that they are primarily replacing pre-order ps4s at the moment that have the problem, and that most of the units they've seen have been from either amazon or gamestop, produced during that particular time period.  Interestingly, I pulled out the hard drive on the new one they gave me and it was a 500gb HGST (Hitachi) rather than a 500gb seagate labelled Samsung.  Still made in the same factory, and the date says Sept 2013, but the different hard drive is encouraging.  I think I may be set this time. 
  
 It was a bit annoying that I was one of the small number affected by the issues, but Sony took care of it without too much of a hassle.


----------



## raul219

conquerator2 said:


> I am sorry for your problems :/
> But to put it into perspective, we are hopefully talking about like 10.000/1.5 mil shipped, so 7.5% roughly, right?
> It's not a small number but in comparison to the RROD, which had a failure rate between 33% and 50%, it's still within boundaries.
> The first PS3s had a similar failure rate, me thinks.
> ...


 
  
  
 Actually the percentage numbers are less than 1% if using your data, which is the failure percentage estimated by Sony after launch. This is actually a very good number for a console launch and for any type of electronics. Now to the question, I got a PS4 because the like exclusive games attached to Sony consoles more than the ones on Microsoft's side. I think that is the main thing you should ask yourself when deciding between these two.


----------



## conquerator2

raul219 said:


> Actually the percentage numbers are less than 1% if using your data, which is the failure percentage estimated by Sony after launch. This is actually a very good number for a console launch and for any type of electronics. Now to the question, I got a PS4 because the like exclusive games attached to Sony consoles more than the ones on Microsoft's side. I think that is the main thing you should ask yourself when deciding between these two.




Yes, precisely.
Likewise to a big extent.
Though I do like Halo, the Sony exclusives easily outweighs it for me.


----------



## martin vegas

I never completed halo 4..i thought it was a pile of crap..master chief looked good in the cut scenes though..halo 1 was good on the xbox because it was something new.. the soldiers talked and the drop ships looked good when they came in..games like battlefield 3 were much better to play with friends online than halo..i hope they do something with the new halo games and bring something knew to them..like a free roaming online universe that you can play with friends..i haven't made up my mind on which console I am getting yet..just waiting..i just wish dark souls 2 was released at Christmas, I was thinking of getting the ouya while I wait, but no optical out or rca just hdmi and my monitor hasn't got any speakers.. bf4 premium will have to do me!


----------



## Zombie_X

Hey,
  
 I think the Xbox One will be a great system, it just does not appeal to me. I don't need a set-top box nor do I need another next gen system. The Xbox exclusives don't really appeal to me. I always felt that Halo and Fable were overhyped for what they are, BUT I did enjoy Halo 1 and 2 on the original Xbox.
  
 I purchased the PS4 on launch and have been loving it. While not as feature rich as the Xbox One, it makes up for it with a more robust GPU and better RAM. I've always been more on the Sony side of things, but it comes down to preferences. 
  
 I'll say if you want all the features of the Xbox One, go for it. It's a multimedia machine. The PS4 is more bare bones but offers a better gamer focussed experience (so far). Ones not better than the the other but rather it's what they offer that should persuade you.


----------



## jackwess

zombie_x said:


> Hey,
> 
> 
> I purchased the PS4 on launch and have been loving it. While not as feature rich as the Xbox One, it makes up for it with a more robust GPU and better RAM. I've always been more on the Sony side of things, but it comes down to preferences.


 
  
 You didn't have any problems with your PS4 launch edition? or you think that the problems some guys are facing is related to "tv compatibility"? it is always good to have an opinion from real users.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Mine is flawless. No compatibility issues, no overheating or blue light of death, etc.


----------



## conquerator2

jackwess said:


> You didn't have any problems with your PS4 launch edition? or you think that the problems some guys are facing is related to "tv compatibility"? it is always good to have an opinion from real users.


 
 I'd assume the problematic consoles were only some of the Amazon's batch. I'd assume one of the 1st batches were simply not made correctly and that the problem won't happen in the future again. We are looking at 5 -10% max though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Mine is from Amazon.


----------



## RoMee

My Amazon PS4 did't have any issues either. The only problem I had was a credit card error but it was corrected a few days later.


----------



## conquerator2

Yeah I know. I'd say maybe 1/4 of them?
OT - both units shipped over 1 mill units.
The difference is Sony did only in America, Microsoft did worldwide.
Which most likely mean that Sony slightly outsold MS in America alone.
Once PS4 launches next Friday in Europe and elsewhere... Well, I'd assume the numbers will tip significantly in Sony's favor.
I do think though that Sony did so much right that they deserve it.
Smaller box, cheaper, more powerful, not centered round America only, releasing worldwide, listening to feedback and adding requested stuff post launch,...
Oh and Shuhei Yoshida actually acts like a human being, the CEO, a gamer and?! He also feels honest, like Mark Cerny. I also like Andrew House and Kaz Hirai xD
Microsoft's management on the other hand makes me feel intimated and scared 0_0 ...


----------



## daleb

conquerator2 said:


> Yeah I know. I'd say maybe 1/4 of them?


 
 1/4th?! Dude, that would be a huge number... Sony wouldn't be selling anywhere near as many as they did if they had that many problems.


----------



## conquerator2

daleb said:


> 1/4th?! Dude, that would be a huge number... Sony wouldn't be selling anywhere near as many as they did if they had that many problems.




Fine, then it was less! Whatever equals to 5% (50K units)
I dunno! xD


----------



## Zombie_X

Min is from Amazon and works fine. The only issue I have is the network connection gets iffy but a Sony rep said that it was a PSN issue. I'll do an internet connection test, get 22Mbps download speed, then maybe a couple hours later it'll drop to under 1Mbps.. I've tried wired and wifi and while wired yields faster speeds (28Mbps), I'm fine with wireless as my router and modem is a few rooms away. It's just odd though.
  
 I was playing Battlefield 4 earlier and it ran great, now I'am get a ton of lag and jittering. It's annoying. On my days off I would like to play.. Odly enough the PSN and internet on my PS3 work fine and I get a steady 30Mbps.
  
 Also MLE, the videos you uploaded from your PS4 do not work at all. I click on them from Whats New and they go to play and nothing happens..


----------



## Change is Good

I think from what I've read is that some of the actual PS4s that were labeled "launch editions" from a Amazon are the ones having issues. All other "standard editions" that still shipped on day one have not been reporting many issues.

I got lucky and got mine from Walmart on launch night after canceling my Amazon pre order like a dummy. Still, that preorder was a launch edition so I may have just avoided some heartache.

I may also suggest that all of you witg PS4s get the accidental protection program for $60. A 3 year warranty with accidents included on a launch console is a must buy for that price, IMO.


----------



## evilhippie

Yeah, I was one of the people who received a dreaded BLOD launch edition from Amazon.  When I went to exchange my system at the nearest Sony retail store on monday, they had told me they processed about 180 exchanges that day in that one location, and the majority of them had come from amazon, with a few from gamestop.  Of course they said that no PS4s sold directly by Sony had issues, but who knows if that's the truth (it was a sony store after all). 
  
 Even if I hadn't went ahead and done that, Amazon sent out a replacement console on wednesday which I promptly cancelled.  It seems that the problem was that amazon simply didn't have any replacement stock at the time, which is understandable given the situation.  I don't think there was any reason for them to anticipate that a majority of the "launch edition" batch would be damaged in some way.  Unfortunately, it seems that most of the defective units have been isolated to those put together in a certain factory between certain dates, so its completely possible that all of these "launch edition" systems are compromised (there was a lot of speculation about this). 
  
 Either way, even if there was no Sony store anywhere within driving distance, Amazon would have eventually replaced the console anyway.  To be fair though, I would have been much angrier to be without it for a week if I wasn't primarily a PC gamer.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

zombie_x said:


> Also MLE, the videos you uploaded from your PS4 do not work at all. I click on them from Whats New and they go to play and nothing happens..




Where did you look for these videos? I think they don't work because I deleted them all? the ones I sent to facebook work just fine...


----------



## Zombie_X

I was trying to view them on the PS4 directly. 
  
 Also is anyone have speed issues with the network? I have 50Mbps internet speeds and I normally get 22Mbps on the PS4, but it randomly drops to 1Mbps. It's been stuck at around 2Mbps for the last four hours and I can't play online because of severe lag. I've tried port forwarding, DMZ... but nothing helps. Even releasing the IP did nothing nor did a reboot of my router or modem.


----------



## Change is Good

My internet is 30mbps and my ps4 is getting speeds of 22mbps as we speak after doing a connection test.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My Internet has been **** lately as well. It was never that great wirh the ps3, and the ps4 avetages around 9mbps, at 1.5 upload. My general connection is in the mid 20s, but my upload is still around 2. Brighthouse for the phail.


----------



## Change is Good

Yea, unfortunately we don't have many options in central Florida... but like I said mine is at 22mbps when I did a connection test. It's been pretty consistent, too. It was running much lower, however, until I called brighthouse and complained the night I got my PS4.
  
 They did some reboots and everything's been dandy since...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm gonna do the same then. I pay for the 2nd fastest internet, and I get crap speeds.


----------



## Zombie_X

I already called Time Warner about the issues and they also did some stuff on their end. Nothing helps. The only time it dipped like this was on the PS4 launch weekend.


----------



## JeremyR

Personally if it was me, I would not get either. I would look into PC gaming.
  
 When the PS3 and the 360 came out, the amount you would of had to spend on a gaming PC to meet the same specs was quite high. This time around, you can spend the same. In fact, PC gaming can be a lot less.
  
 For around $550, you can create a gaming PC with the same capability as the consoles. However with that, you get online gaming for free, and depending on the video card you select, you get a few games for free. This makes the initial investment lower.
  
 Aside from the initial investment, games themselves are also less on the PC. The big AAA titles cost the same, but on steam they have weekly sales that allow you to grow your gaming library for almost nothing.
  
  
  
 Until some exclusive comes out that you NEED to play, there is no reason to buy a next gen console. The only console exclusive right now that everyone says is great, is Forza 5, and better racing games can be had on the PC.


----------



## conquerator2

jeremyr said:


> Personally if it was me, I would not get either. I would look into PC gaming.
> 
> When the PS3 and the 360 came out, the amount you would of had to spend on a gaming PC to meet the same specs was quite high. This time around, you can spend the same. In fact, PC gaming can be a lot less.
> 
> ...


 
 Everything you say is true, there is no arguing that. Kudos to someone who actually presents valid points, without swaying to fanboyism or "PC Master Race" claims.
 That said, in my case at least, I'll be buying a PS4 sooner or later.
 There are no games I need to play currently, first game I really want to play [and the time when I'll be buying a PS3 by] is Infamous: Second Son as I loved both previous Infamous games.
 Then it's Uncharted 4 and all the other 1st party games yet to be announced :]
  
 No XBone love here unfortunately, sorry


----------



## JeremyR

conquerator2 said:


> No XBone love here unfortunately, sorry


 
  
 If I could only have one thing to play games on, and it had to be a console, I would chose the PS4. However if someone was going to give me a console with my current lifestyle, I would take the Xbox One.
  
 I have a high end gaming PC, a 360, and a PS3. Outside of GTA V, I have not played a game on a console in a year. However I use my PS3 every week. I use it for netflix, and Blue-ray disks. It has been a better console, because it does so much more then play games.
  
 This time around they flipped it. The PS4 is without question a more capable gaming system. However the Xbox One does so many other things, that it's usefulness for me outside of gaming, makes it more desirable.
  
  
 I have always had a gaming PC, have owned every play station, Xbox, Nintendo system (minus the Wii U), Sega system, 3DO, intellivision, colecovision, Atari, Pong.. I started gaming in 1975, and when a new thing came out I always wanted it.
  
 This console release is the first time I don't really have a desire to own either.


----------



## conquerator2

jeremyr said:


> If I could only have one thing to play games on, and it had to be a console, I would chose the PS4. However if someone was going to give me a console with my current lifestyle, I would take the Xbox One.
> 
> I have a high end gaming PC, a 360, and a PS3. Outside of GTA V, I have not played a game on a console in a year. However I use my PS3 every week. I use it for netflix, and Blue-ray disks. It has been a better console, because it does so much more then play games.
> 
> ...


 
  
 "mumblemumble" halfofthestuffXbonedoesdon'tworkproperlyyet"mumblemumble" You were saying? 
 Seriously though? You have not played The Last Of Us?!
 Y O U   totally   S H O  U L D ...
 What suits you best, obviously ;]


----------



## JeremyR

conquerator2 said:


> "mumblemumble" halfofthestuffXbonedoesdon'tworkproperlyyet"mumblemumble" You were saying?
> Seriously though? You have not played The Last Of Us?!
> Y O U   totally   S H O  U L D ...
> What suits you best, obviously ;]


 
  
 Not into that level of violence. I don't mind killing hundreds of people in video games, but I don't like seeing half there face blown off with a shotgun. I hear it's an awesome game however.


----------



## Makiah S

Very happy that a TON of head fi'rs went with the PS4... shame on Mircosoft, the X Box One seems like a failure imo... it costs more than the PS4 and it's got all those... issues with it... either way, It's a shame... I hope it get's some sales... but I'd rather have Mircosoft start porting all of their X Box Franchise games to PC [assuming the X Box Does really bad this season]
  
 Non the less, I actually want a PS3! I've been wanting one for a WHILE now, so I'm super glad to see it's come down in price! Hoping by just after Christmas


----------



## martin vegas

jeremyr said:


> If I could only have one thing to play games on, and it had to be a console, I would chose the PS4. However if someone was going to give me a console with my current lifestyle, I would take the Xbox One.
> 
> I have a high end gaming PC, a 360, and a PS3. Outside of GTA V, I have not played a game on a console in a year. However I use my PS3 every week. I use it for netflix, and Blue-ray disks. It has been a better console, because it does so much more then play games.
> 
> ...


 
 You must remember the days of the spectrum Amstrad and commodore 64 when you had to pray for the games to load in!


----------



## Makiah S

jeremyr said:


> If I could only have one thing to play games on, and it had to be a console, I would chose the PS4. However if someone was going to give me a console with my current lifestyle, I would take the Xbox One.
> 
> I have a high end gaming PC, a 360, and a PS3. Outside of GTA V, I have not played a game on a console in a year. However I use my PS3 every week. I use it for netflix, and Blue-ray disks. It has been a better console, because it does so much more then play games.
> 
> ...


 
 You know that is good to hear! At the end of my Wii U's life it was a multi porupose device!  I used it for Net Flixs as well, I'm happy to hear the PS3 maintains a lot of that funcionality, and good to hear the X Box One is take a more multi Functionality Route over the PS4


----------



## conquerator2

jeremyr said:


> Not into that level of violence. I don't mind killing hundreds of people in video games, but I don't like seeing half there face blown off with a shotgun. I hear it's an awesome game however.


 
 I never did that... It was in the trailer but not in the game.
 I am not into brutality either and I don't think this game is nearly as brutal as you think it is.
 You should at least try the demo :]


----------



## Change is Good

Mshenay, I might be selling my ps3 and a bunch of games soon. It's a second gen ps3 with a 500gb hard drive that I put in myself. PM me and we can work something out if interested


----------



## JeremyR

martin vegas said:


> You must remember the days of the spectrum Amstrad and commodore 64 when you had to pray for the games to load in!


 
 lol, Amstrad... wow.
  
 I got my first PC in 1981, and then the PCjr when it came out, so I skipped all the commodore type stuff. Didn't own an Apple product until 2007 either. If I could do it all over again, I would have liked to have owned an Amiga in it's prime. Those were nice systems.


----------



## Makiah S

conquerator2 said:


> I never did that... It was in the trailer but not in the game.
> I am not into brutality either and I don't think this game is nearly as brutal as you think it is.
> You should at least try the demo :]


 
 Agree'd I'm not a fan of Brutality either tons of gorgeous jRpgs on the PS3 I need to play!


----------



## JeremyR

conquerator2 said:


> I never did that... It was in the trailer but not in the game.
> I am not into brutality either and I don't think this game is nearly as brutal as you think it is.
> You should at least try the demo :]


 
 Good to know. I think I will pick a copy up and give it a shot.
  
 Put it on my stack of games I need to finish (working on AC4 atm)


----------



## conquerator2

jeremyr said:


> Good to know. I think I will pick a copy up and give it a shot.
> 
> Put it on my stack of games I need to finish (working on AC4 atm)


 
 Tell me about it! There are like 10 more games I wanna finish this gen 
 Not sure if I'll manage.... oh, well :]


----------



## hd1080ts

I went PS4 prefer gaming focus and more powerful hardware, getting it on Friday for UK release date.
  
 Just got a Startech 3.5mm 4pin male to 2 x 3.5mm female splitter so I can use my Senn 650s (with Fio amp) with a Zalman MC1 mic.


----------



## estreeter

FWIW, XBone xclusive games are being plugged more heavily on Oz TV - at least from what I've seen across our relatively small number of commercial channels - than the PS4 games. In eye-candy terms, they beat the hell out of the ads for dog food and lady products.


----------



## daleb

estreeter said:


> FWIW, XBone xclusive games are being plugged more heavily on Oz TV - at least from what I've seen across our relatively small number of commercial channels - than the PS4 games. In eye-candy terms, they beat the hell out of the ads for dog food and lady products.


 

 Microsoft put such a huge marketing budget for the XBone, it's insane.


----------



## Zombie_X

Honestly I'm not digging what Microsoft has done with the Xbox One. I loved the 360 to death and was completely turned off by their horrid E3 conference/presentation. Comes with Kinect, 24 hour check in, always online, no used games... Those really ticked me off. They may have back peddled but the damage is still done. Sorry Microshaft, but you've lost me. 
  
 Now with all the reposts of defective units and such, it really makes me think they rushed this system out the door. Have you heard how the system's optical drive malfunctions and eats discs? The system even has PSU issue that cause capacitors to pop and smoke on the system.
  
 Nah son, I'm good. I got my trusty: PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, PSP, PS Vita, NES, SNES, N64, Gamecube, Wii, Wii U, Game Boy, Game Boy Pocket, Game Boy Light, Game Boy Color, Game Boy Advance, Game Boy Advance SP, DS, DS Lite, DSi XL, 3DS, 3DS XL, Genesis, Saturn, Dreamcast, 32X, Sega CD, Atari 2600, Commodore 64, Colecovision, Intellivision, and more.. yes I have them all...


----------



## daleb

You collect audio equipment AND video games?
  

  
 Actually, I plan on doing that as well. Just need to wait until I get out of college first...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I want an XBox One, but really, I play most of the new games on PC anyways, and PS4 has me on it's exclusives. I won't be using the PS4 much either, asides from exclusives and certain FPS games, which I feel I'd be more competitive on PS4 due to being a controller guy, not a K&M guy. 

Steam gaming is where it's at, due to the constant deals. I basically buy games at the price I used to rent them for on consoles.

To be honest, I'm starting to get more excited about the Steam boxes coming.


----------



## daleb

mad lust envy said:


> I want an XBox One, but really, I play most of the new games on PC anyways, and PS4 has me on it's exclusives. I won't be using the PS4 much either, asides from exclusives and certain FPS games, which I feel I'd be more competitive on PS4 due to being a controller guy, not a K&M guy.
> 
> Steam gaming is where it's at, due to the constant deals. I basically buy games at the price I used to rent them for on consoles.
> 
> To be honest, I'm starting to get more excited about the Steam boxes coming.


 
  
 I'm starting to hate Steam. It doesn't mesh well with my uncontrollable desire to buy everything on sale.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's diabolical, really. I'm like... "I'LL NEVER PLAY THROUGH THE GAME.... BUT IT'S $5, GET IT NAO, I MIGHT PLAY IT EVENTUALLY..."



I've bought some truly amazing games like Tomb Raider, Max Payne 3, Sleeping Dogs, DMC, Bioshock infinite, Binary Domain, etc, for less than $10. Paired with the fact my laptop can run games as good if not better than the PS4... it just makes sense to get them on Steam... for MUCH cheaper. Right now, Need For Speed Rivals is going for $30 on Steam... while it's still $50 or higher on PS4/XB1. That game JUST came out...


----------



## daleb

> Sleeping Dogs


 
 I'm still trying to decide on getting that. It's $5 right now, and I love open world games, but my endless backlog means I won't even get around to it for a while...
 Edit: Just bought it. My wallet can't handle this... I'm probably going to spend $100 by the end of the week.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

that game is amazing. I have never been into open world games. I got to play the game for free on the PS3, and I fell in love enough to rebuy for PC and play through it a second time..


----------



## AxelCloris

daleb said:


> I'm starting to hate Steam. It doesn't mesh well with my uncontrollable desire to buy everything on sale.


 
  
 That's got to be my favorite Steam Sale video yet.


----------



## Accoun

mad lust envy said:


> that game is amazing. I have never been into open world games. I got to play the game for free on the PS3, and I fell in love enough to rebuy for PC and play through it a second time..




Especially since it's supposed to be a good PC version, if I recall correctly.


----------



## Astrozombie

Get my Ps3 fixed, buy the 10 or so games I still want to play. Upgrade my video card and then see how much the Ps4 is going for.............Xbox usually has very little exclusives that i'm interested in.
  
 The console gets cheaper, the games get cheaper and if there are any glitches hopefully the console won't blow up when you finally do get it.


----------



## Sir Tmotts III

I'm just going to work out getting a good PC. Steam treats me better than Micro$oft ever did on either my old xbox or the 360. The only exclusive that really would have driven me to get a X1 was Halo, but the last one was a real let down for me.


----------



## Zombie_X

Halo is the only exclusive that I'd want, but even so, they really milked the series. GOW is milked as well and I hope GOW Redux for PS4 is real. Leaked screens on NeoGaf show PS buttons, though the links were taken down.
  
 Quote:


sir tmotts iii said:


> I'm just going to work out getting a good PC. Steam treats me better than Micro$oft ever did on either my old xbox or the 360. The only exclusive that really would have driven me to get a X1 was Halo, but the last one was a real let down for me.


----------



## gikigill

Almost bit on the Xbox One and the Forza bundle. 

Saw the microtransactions and went home with my wallet still shut. I could rant but spare everyone the trouble. This was the first time I would have bought a console since playing Nin64 as a kid and PC after that.


----------



## estreeter

daleb said:


> You collect audio equipment AND video games?
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I plan on doing that as well. Just need to wait until I get out of college first...


 
  
 Wait till you run into the folk who have those addictions AND expensive camera gear - those are three expensive hobbies right there. Throw in Italian motorcycles and you might as well accept that you need a job that pays six figures for the rest of your life


----------



## JeremyR

estreeter said:


> Wait till you run into the folk who have those addictions AND expensive camera gear


 
  
 As someone getting into the audio scene, that would be me. Of all three hobbies, camera gear is by far the most expensive.


----------



## daleb

Sleeping Dogs was amazing ._.
 That was unexpectedly awesome. Thanks for the recommendation!


----------



## Makiah S

daleb said:


> I'm starting to hate Steam. It doesn't mesh well with my uncontrollable desire to buy everything on sale.




 Oh gawd I know that feeling q.q 
 and know I need to look into sleeping dogs >.> there goes the rent money 
  
 actually it kinda reminds me of Shenmue... an one else play that on orignal Dream Cast?


----------



## daleb

> Originally Posted by *Mshenay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> actually it kinda reminds me of Shenmue... an one else play that on orignal Dream Cast?


 
 Shenmue is a pretty cool game! I never got to see much of it, though.


----------



## Makiah S

daleb said:


> Shenmue is a pretty cool game! I never got to see much of it, though.


 
 INdeed, I only wish I'd play'd more of it. It had a really epic fighting system...


----------



## martin vegas

daleb said:


> Shenmue is a pretty cool game! I never got to see much of it, though.


 

 I have Shenmue 1 and 2 on the dreamcast and bought Shenmue 2 for the xbox..still one of the best story based games out there..i hope they do Shenmue 3 some day and finish the story off!


----------



## Makiah S

martin vegas said:


> I have Shenmue 1 and 2 on the dreamcast and bought Shenmue 2 for the xbox..still one of the best story based games out there..i hope they do Shenmue 3 some day and finish the story off!


 
 agree'd... actually I wonder if steam has plans to re release it! They gave Jet Set Radio a PC remake... Shenmue is more than worthy of a remake!


----------



## daleb

mshenay said:


> agree'd... actually I wonder if steam has plans to re release it! They gave Jet Set Radio a PC remake... Shenmue is more than worthy of a remake!


 

 Sega seems to be slowly porting all their games over to steam. There is a good chance there won't be a remake, but there should be at least a port.


----------



## Makiah S

daleb said:


> Sega seems to be slowly porting all their games over to steam. There is a good chance there won't be a remake, but there should be at least a port.


 
 Well the Jet Set Radio Port got 1080P, so the up scaling imo is a remake of sorts. It wasn't natively in that high res format. Not to mention again a good chance they may reintegrate and bundle 1 and 2 into a single Game, throw in some un released content and make a killing... I'd easily pay $60 for both games and some Lossless OSTs not to mention the acheivements added,


----------



## Change is Good

if this isn't a PR stunt Iu don't know what is...
  
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/man-who-paid-750-for-photo-of-xbox-one-gets-free-system/1100-6416609/


----------



## JeremyR

change is good said:


> if this isn't a PR stunt Iu don't know what is...
> 
> http://www.gamespot.com/articles/man-who-paid-750-for-photo-of-xbox-one-gets-free-system/1100-6416609/


 
 not very good PR.. They should be sold out. The fact that they have one lying around to give away is not a good sign.


----------



## daleb

mshenay said:


> Well the Jet Set Radio Port got 1080P, so the up scaling imo is a remake of sorts. It wasn't natively in that high res format. Not to mention again a good chance they may reintegrate and bundle 1 and 2 into a single Game, throw in some un released content and make a killing... I'd easily pay $60 for both games and some Lossless OSTs not to mention the acheivements added,


 
 Yeah, JSR got that treatment, but I think Shenmue is a lot less likely to get it. It just won't sell as well. I'd love it if it did, though!


----------



## smagicmans

I am so torn apart, don't really know what to buy. I want PS4 to play final fantasy later but Xbox1 seem to have a lot of potential. argh*


----------



## Makiah S

daleb said:


> Yeah, JSR got that treatment, but I think Shenmue is a lot less likely to get it. It just won't sell as well. I'd love it if it did, though!




I guess but shenmue has quite the cult following im still hoping

also i am gettin a ps3 some time. All those missed jrpgs q.q


----------



## barleyguy

martin vegas said:


> I have Shenmue 1 and 2 on the dreamcast and bought Shenmue 2 for the xbox..still one of the best story based games out there..i hope they do Shenmue 3 some day and finish the story off!


 

 I also have Shenmue on Dreamcast.  What a great game.  It definitely had an open world feel to it.  There was so much to do in the town apart from the main mission, including an arcade, where there you could get a "game inside a game" experience.
  
 Speaking of Dreamcast, NFL 2K1 is still the highest rated American Football game on Gamerankings.  That game was evolutionary for the time.  EA got so paranoid they bought an exclusive license to the NFL.
  
 And did anybody else play Gut's Rage?


----------



## JeremyR

barleyguy said:


> I also have Shenmue on Dreamcast.  What a great game.  It definitely had an open world feel to it.  There was so much to do in the town apart from the main mission, including an arcade, where there you could get a "game inside a game" experience.
> 
> Speaking of Dreamcast, NFL 2K1 is still the highest rated American Football game on Gamerankings.  That game was evolutionary for the time.  EA got so paranoid they bought an exclusive license to the NFL.
> 
> And did anybody else play Gut's Rage?


 
 never played Gut's Rage.
  
 I remember having NFL 2K1 on pause while my father was over. When paused, it would go into presentation mode. He walked through to the kitchen, and on the way back I picked up the controller and started playing. He was shocked. he thought it was a real gaming going on.


----------



## gamefreak054

Shenmue through VGA on a CRT tv looks absurdly amazing so does skies of arcadia. I still have to play through shenmue though. I had a hard time getting into as it took me about 2 hours to get to the first fight (plus an extra hour or two adjusting the pot on one of my dreamcasts laser as it kept freezing, I gave up on that after finding another dreamcast for $15). 
  
 Anyways on the PS4 vs Xbone debate. I would take a ps4 any day of the week. Sony has too many amazing IPs under their belt, while microsoft only has a couple. I also never liked Halo, the online was ok for me, but outside of Halo 1 the story is quite drab and uninspired imo. They keep adding plot twist after plot twist to keep the story a live. People have been arguing that the xbone has better exclusives out of the gate, but I do not think it will stay like that for long. Titanfall looks kind of overhyped to be blunt, and its coming to the PC anyways.


----------



## OverImagination

My vote is for the PS4.
  
 I don't have any plans to buy one any time soon.. but maybe in a year or two. But then I might just spend a bit more and get a gaming PC.
  
 I'm really just looking forward to Dark Souls 2 an the upcoming MGS game, and playing a few more PS3 games like GTA5 and Last of Us. BF4 looks good but that's also the kind of game I would enjoy way more with a mouse and keyboard.


----------



## ASillyUsername

I ended up picking neither, I can't afford them and I love Nintendo products, I'd rather spend the money towards Nintendo (have a wii U and 3ds) or more audio gear (could always use more). No hate towards either company just not for me, with some extra money I'd go ps4 over Xbox one.


----------



## scott5526

I'd go for the xbox one as of now, ps4 might be worth it later though.
  
 Xbox one had fewer launch day issues - just broken disk drives and some party chat issues from what I've seen.  Ps4 apparently had a lot more manufacturing issues i.e. their blue light issues and HDMI issues as a start.  There were a few other problems I saw on Sony's help forums, but I don't remember specifics off the top of my memory.
  
 Xbox one has better launch exclusives - Knack is cool, but it's hard to argue launch day titles for Ps4 rival Ryse, Dead Rising 3, and Forza.
  
 Xbox one has a better functional design.  Ps4 might look sleeker than the Xbox one, but it's much smaller with less venting and the PSU is stuffed into the chassis, not to mention the hardware edges out the Xbox one hardware in some regards.  Xbox one is huge in comparison and half the chassis is vented so it should stay pretty cool, not to mention the PSU is outside the chassis so it doesn't add to internal heat.  In summary, Ps4 seems more prone to internal hardware failures since it shouldn't be cooled as well as the Xbox one.
  
 Ps4 has a nicer visual design.  Most people would agree the Xbox one looks like an old VCR and the Ps4 looks sleek.
  
 Ps4 has slightly better hardware.  The GPU is a little better than the Xbox one GPU and the RAM is GDDR5 instead of GDDR3 which is what the Xbox one is running.
  
  
 Personally, I chose the Xbox one since I like Xbox Live more than PSN and I had a 360 so I could transfer my friend list over.  I also generally like xbox exclusives more than playstation exclusives.  I understand sony decided to upgrade PSN which is why they're charging for it now, but I've always thought voices sounded almost robotic on PSN and xbox live voices sounded good before and even better on the Xbox one.  I felt safer going with a company that was improving a good network as opposed to designing a good network from a mediocre one.
  
 The hardware on both consoles is close enough that the Ps4 shouldn't looks worlds better than the Xbox one.  I remember seeing a video of somebody who spec'd out two computers to match the hardware of both consoles and found the framerate to be in the low-mid 40s on the Xbox one and the high 40s-low 50s on the Ps4.  Other than that, there wasn't much difference.  Obviously there are other factors that needs to be considered as a console won't run identically to a computer, but it gives a general idea of how the hardware compares at least in regards to framerate.  When it comes to 720p vs.1080p it depends on what type of tv you own.  Tvs at or below 50 inches ish won't show much of a difference unless you're sitting 1 foot away from your tv (don't do this).  For tvs above this the higher native resolution the ps4 generally boasts may be better.  The more important thing to consider is how each console renders graphics.  From what I've seen the Xbox one tends to render in darker shades while the ps4 renders in brighter shades.  Personally I generally prefer darker, but that is subjective and some games may look better rendered darker or brighter.
  
 In summary, don't get dragged into the ps4 because the hardware edges out the Xbox one hardware, go for the console that has the features you want.  Consoles are already vastly beaten by PCs, if having the absolute best hardware is your number 1 priority you would be better off investing in a gaming pc (as I plan to do in the next year after the Nvidia 800 series comes out).  Weigh features such as networks, voice, software features, games, etc. against each other to make your decision.  Also pay attention to the direction each console is heading.  Look at future exclusives and features that Sony or Microsoft plans to implement into their consoles.  Don't just look at where each console is right now.
  
 On a personal note, if you plan on going after a Ps4 you should probably wait until next year while they sort out their QC issues.  The Xbox one has a better launch lineup, but from what I've seen the Ps4 has more exclusives lined up further down the road than the Xbox One.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I really need Skies of Arcadia.


----------



## JeremyR

scott5526 said:


> I'd go for the xbox one as of now, ps4 might be worth it later though.
> 
> Xbox one had fewer launch day issues - just broken disk drives and some party chat issues from what I've seen.  Ps4 apparently had a lot more manufacturing issues i.e. their blue light issues and HDMI issues as a start.  There were a few other problems I saw on Sony's help forums, but I don't remember specifics off the top of my memory.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sorry, but a lot wrong in this post. Your 720 vs 1080 sounds like your discrediting 1080 all together. Unless your a foot away it doesn't matter? So you believe that with movies as well?
  
 The QC issues are minor Millions of PS4's have been sold. If you have 1% failure rate (a good rate), that's 20,000 bad units if they sell 2 million of them. The issue is overblown.
  
 As for launch titles, I will agree the exclusive ones on the One are better. However the cross platform ones are better on the PS4.
  
 You are an x-box player, so if you like the IPs they have, and XBL, then the better console for you is the One. However that's because of what you have invested in the ecosystem. The justifications you make in this post due to that being your console of choice is purly based on bias.


----------



## scott5526

jeremyr said:


> Sorry, but a lot wrong in this post. Your 720 vs 1080 sounds like your discrediting 1080 all together. Unless your a foot away it doesn't matter? So you believe that with movies as well?
> 
> The QC issues are minor Millions of PS4's have been sold. If you have 1% failure rate (a good rate), that's 20,000 bad units if they sell 2 million of them. The issue is overblown.
> 
> ...


 
 I'm not discrediting 1080p, if you have a large tv it will matter.  People just tend to think a small tv running at 1080p makes it better than a tv of the same size running at 720p when the reality is it is almost impossible to tell a difference for a normal viewing distance.  Like I said, if you have a large tv a ps4 might be preferable since games on it tend to run in a higher native resolution, but for a lot of people that isn't the case. When I'm watching a movie on small tvs it doesn't matter whether it is 720p or 1080p, it's all the same.  The foot away part is a generalization, point being don't sit super close to your tv, although as tv size goes up, the distance where you can tell a difference between 720p and 1080p goes up.  Generally if you are sitting within that range, being how close you need to be to your tv, you are sitting way too close to your tv so it shouldn't matter unless you are sitting too close to your tv.  I stand by my argument.
  
 The QC issues are a little overblown, although I don't trust statistics Sony throws out, that's personal though.  I was referring more to the variety of issues opposed to Xbox one issues.  
  
 Cross platform titles just increase the number of people who are playing titles.  It's cool if you can have a bigger audience playing games, but aren't you comparing apples to oranges a bit?  Comparing the benefit of having better full games to the benefit of having games with a bigger audience.  The majority of the time those benefits are marginal, unless you are dealing with a title that needs cross-platform support to survive.  If cross-platform support is a bonus for you though, that's fine.
  
 I am an xbox player.  I wasn't always and I don't plan to always be.  I used to have a ps2, then 360.  Before that it was a n64. Right now I have an Xbox one, next year I'll also have a ps4.  I mentioned that that me liking the Xbox one for having owned the 360 was personal, so I wouldn't expect others to like the Xbox one because I had the 360.  Although if you are also a 360 player you may like a Xbox one for that reason.  The same would apply for a ps3 player looking at the ps4.  I like XBL because microsoft has been charging 60$/yr for the last 8 years while sony hasn't for PSN.  Microsoft used a lot of that money improving XBL quality.  I used voice chat as an example because I strongly feel voice is/was better on the 360 than the ps3.  It is a subjective argument, but it seemed so much better that it was hard to neglect.  Sony is just beginning to charge a mandatory rate for PSN, so my argument was that I felt safer going for XBL since it is more developed and invested in.  I have no doubt that in the future PSN will improve greatly, but as of now I just like XBL more.  I also admit that the argument isn't a big enough reason to not go for the ps4 since long-term, and to some degree short-term, I see PSN improving a lot, but it should be something to consider.
  
 I might be a Xbox one player now, but that is only because I felt it had a better launch than the ps4 for reasons not just including QC.  I think ps4 will be a better console to buy next year when more exclusives come out for it and PSN has been given some time and I do plan on buying it next year.  A lot of my post was about whether you want to buy a console for now or a console for later.  Like I said, a lot of deciding which console to jump on and when to jump on it depends on what features/benefits you personally value.
  
 EDIT: Come to think of it there might be an exception to my 720p vs 1080p argument.  If you are using a SUPER small tv (as in you need to sit within 1 or 2 ft of it) 1080p may look crisper than 720p.  That's about the only exception though.


----------



## JeremyR

I am not discrediting your choice to buy a One. I think there are many valid reasons to buy a One over the PS4. I think they are:
  

Motion controls
Your friends are on X-Box Live
You like Microsoft's exclusive games
You want your console to be a media center
  
 However there are good reasons to buy a PS4 over the One. They are:

Less expensive
More powerful
Better hardware design
You like Sony's exclusive games
  
 The only reason I took issue with your post, is because you referenced the strong points of the PS4, and then chose to discredit them. The power supply being inside the console is a good thing. The only reason Microsoft chose to put the power supply outside the console, is because of the issues they had with overheating on the 360. The amount of heat in total the One puts in a room is more then the PS4. The PS4 console does run hotter, however it's well within the levels of acceptable heat. The One however if you measure the heat coming from the power supple and the console, will heat up your room more. If you live somewhere where you pay a cooling bill, you will pay a little more over the course of the year with the One. Also the PS4 has a user replaceable hard drive, where the One does not. With only 500 Gig, those drives can fill up quickly. All the way around with respect to hardware, the PS4 is a better designed unit.
  
 As for screen size, I know of people who sit 2 feet away from 3 46" 1080p TV's. LED TV's are just computer monitors. There is no negative issue with how far way you sit. I would think a very large percentage of people who end up buying a console, are going to be kids who put them in there bedroom, and also have a 55" TV. For a large percentage of people, the difference in quality of the visuals will be recognizable.
  
 So I am not discrediting your choice to buy a One, or even arguing with you buying it. If you asked me what console I think you should buy, it would be the One. What I took issue with, was just you devaluing the strengths of the PS4 as meaningless.
  
 Oh, and as for someone with the three 46" TV's.....
  

  
 EDIT: Yes, one of those pairs of headphones he has on his head are HD800's, (and he has some hifiman's as well)


----------



## scott5526

jeremyr said:


> Motion controls
> Your friends are on X-Box Live
> You like Microsoft's exclusive games
> You want your console to be a media center
> ...


 
 You raise a lot of good points about the ps4, exchangeable hard drives are one of them.  I do, however, still feel that microsoft took a conservative approach to designing the xbox one and so I feel it would be a safer choice in regards to durability, but sony managed to get by with their ps3's durability which was even famous at one point for cooking eggs so we'll see.
  
 I don't entirely agree with every positive you listed for either console, but on the other hand the list is far from inclusive.  There are so many different factors that come into play for both consoles that it would be difficult to list them all.
  
 I'm sorry if it seemed like I was trying to discredit ps4 strengths, that wasn't my intent.  Rather I was trying to highlight that there are a lot of different positives about both consoles and people shouldn't strictly be concerned with whether a console is generally running in 720p-900p or 900p-1080p which is where a lot of Xbox one vs ps4 arguments tend to go.  I listed the factors that were most important to me when I made my choice about which console to buy now and which to buy later.  I also wanted to highlight that personal factors come into play.  Using the resolution example, viewing distance and tv size may be a major factor in whether or not the higher resolutions offered by the ps4 are a positive.  Some people may opt for the ps4 for its resolution when it ultimately doesn't matter for them which is what I want to avoid.  Like I said, I'll be buying both consoles, I just decided the Xbox one would be the better console to buy now and the ps4 the better console to buy next year.  Your friends really shouldn't sit so close to those tvs though 0_0.  It's bad for eyesight, I know from personal experience X_X.


----------



## JeremyR

scott5526 said:


> Your friends really shouldn't sit so close to those tvs though 0_0.  It's bad for eyesight, I know from personal experience X_X.


 
  
 I sit 18 inches from a 27" LED monitor 10-16 hours a day. Been sitting in front of screen that long most days for around 30 years now. So far so good


----------



## money4me247

all i have to say is: HALO 5!!!!!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





heh


----------



## scott5526

jeremyr said:


> I sit 18 inches from a 27" LED monitor 10-16 hours a day. Been sitting in front of screen that long most days for around 30 years now. So far so good


 
 That isn't awful for a 27".  Smaller tvs are alright have smaller minimum viewing distances.  I do the same w/ a 22".  Now the 3 40" + tvs are another case.
  
 On another note, used to sit 1ft off 30" ers while I was a kid.  Did it for 7 or 8 years and my visions taken a hit from it.


----------



## scott5526

money4me247 said:


> all i have to say is: HALO 5!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hopefully it's good.  I was a little disappointed w/ halo 4.  I thought 343 messed w/ too many core story concepts and their multiplayer was a little chaotic (too many power weapons/vehicles). 343 are masters of cg though, no better company comes to mind off the top of my head.  Not on consoles anyway.


----------



## Accoun

I'm pretty interested in how Halo 5 will turn out because of one thing: the person responsible for the graphics part of the engine (or at least the most important person in 343i when it comes to that) left to work in Naughty Dog. I wonder how it's going to be without her...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Resolutions aren't dependent on just size. They're dependent on viewing distance. Computer monitors tend to fill up more of your eye viewing space than an HDTV in a standard living room. That's why reolution does matter, especially for monitors. 1080p to 720p differences are pretty obvious, if you sit a proper distance from the screen. Problem is, people tend to sit far from their TV screens, where 720p and 1080p will look the same.




Chances are, most people sit somewhere in the realm where they gain very little benefit of 1080p over 720p. Then there's the average consumer who buys a 32"-40" TV and sits 9-10feet back which is much too far for 1080p benefits, let alone 720p.

I myself have a 60" 1080p set that I sit from 7.5 feet and back. At BEST, I see all the benefits 1080p gives, but most of the time I sit further back (9-10ft) where I'm seeing a mild benefit.

This is why the push to 4k baffles me. Unless you have gigantic screens, there will be no visible improvement from a LOGICAL viewing distance. 4k is best left for projector screens.


----------



## scott5526

mad lust envy said:


> Resolutions aren't dependent on just size. They're dependent on viewing distance. Computer monitors tend to fill up more of your eye viewing space than an HDTV in a standard living room. That's why reolution does matter, especially for monitors. 1080p to 720p differences are pretty obvious, if you sit a proper distance from the screen. Problem is, people tend to sit far from their TV screens, where 720p and 1080p will look the same.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah, computer monitors are in a realm of their own since people are usually forced to sit close to them.  At that point the higher resolution would definitely be a plus.  In the realm of consoles though, that usually isn't an issue.
  
 In regards to 4k, unless you're dealing with very small tvs (or you are using a computer monitor) or you have a massive tv you shouldn't notice the differences.  I did a side by side at Best Buy the other day between a 4k tv and a 1080p tv at the same size and could only tell a difference when I was within a foot and a half from the tv (I think they were somewhere within the realm of 50-69").  The 4k was fantastic when my face was almost glued to the screen, but otherwise I honestly couldn't see a difference from a normal viewing distance (or even several feet back).  Tv manufacturers always need a reason to make people want to upgrade their tvs.  3D was a cool novelty at best and 4k is absurd in most cases.  The only cool thing I've seen are smart tvs which are largely replaced by other devices in many cases.
  
 EDIT:
 While researching gaming pcs available I stumbled into a 4k computer monitor for 3.3k, so it appears 4k computer monitors are already in production.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The problem with 4k NOW is that TV manufacturers are eventually going to start using all the best stuff on the 4K tvs, leaving the 1080p sets with worse specs, etc. That way, people who want the best picture quality when it comes to other specs unrelated to resolution are basically forced to buy the 4K sets.


----------



## JeremyR

mad lust envy said:


> Resolutions aren't dependent on just size. They're dependent on viewing distance. Computer monitors tend to fill up more of your eye viewing space than an HDTV in a standard living room. That's why reolution does matter, especially for monitors. 1080p to 720p differences are pretty obvious, if you sit a proper distance from the screen. Problem is, people tend to sit far from their TV screens, where 720p and 1080p will look the same.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 While this is the general case, it's not 100% true. Stand 15 feet away from a 4K TV in best buy, and you can tell it's the 4K TV. You can't put your finger on why you know, but you know. The difference is clear.
  
 Also, today's TV's and computer monitors only differ in use cases. They are the same technology. No one can calculate on a forum how readers use there consoles. Millions of console players sit at a desk with there console connected to a computer monitor. I happen to be one of them. Millions of people play PC games connected to TV's.
  
 It's not the old days anymore.


----------



## JeremyR

mad lust envy said:


> The problem with 4k NOW is that TV manufacturers are eventually going to start using all the best stuff on the 4K tvs, leaving the 1080p sets with worse specs, etc. That way, people who want the best picture quality when it comes to other specs unrelated to resolution are basically forced to buy the 4K sets.


 
  
 I don't think this is going to be the case. I think it's the other way around. With 4K TV's out, the price of 1080P TV's is going to drop, and they will put the best tech they can in them to get you to buy theirs.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No. Wanna know what the difference is? The 4k tv at best buy is being fed the best signal out of all their televisions. Thats the difference. Also, it has the best specs, in terms of colors, contrast, etc.

When you dial in a similar 1080p set being fed with the same exact 4k source, you'll be hard pressed to tell the difference. Even cnet covered this at length.

It's store trickery. All their 1080p sets are being sent spliced, degraded signals, while the 4ks get the best treatment. 

At 15ft, you wouldnt see the difference.


----------



## JeremyR

mad lust envy said:


> No. Wanna know what the difference is? The 4k tv at best buy is being fed the best signal out of all their televisions. Thats the difference. Also, it has the best specs, in terms of colors, contrast, etc.
> 
> When you dial in a similar 1080p set being fed with the same exact 4k source, you'll be hard pressed to tell the difference. Even cnet covered this at length.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You have a link please?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You'll end up doing what I do, googling it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57610862-221/four-4k-tv-facts-you-must-know/


----------



## JeremyR

mad lust envy said:


> http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57610862-221/four-4k-tv-facts-you-must-know/


 
  from the link:
  
 "The differences in detail I did see were limited to the very best 4K demo material. Larger TVs or closer seating distances make that difference more visible,* as do computer graphics, animation, and games*, but even then it's not drastic."
  
 So what he is saying is resolution seen in captured video is hard to tell, however for the purposes of this thread, not so much.


----------



## scott5526

mad lust envy said:


> The problem with 4k NOW is that TV manufacturers are eventually going to start using all the best stuff on the 4K tvs, leaving the 1080p sets with worse specs, etc. That way, people who want the best picture quality when it comes to other specs unrelated to resolution are basically forced to buy the 4K sets.


 
 Like all things in business that depends on how popular 4k gets.  At its current price point it is several times more expensive than typical 1080 sets that are otherwise identical.  I would hope consumers would then be more likely to demo 4k sets before buying them and realize their differences compared to 1080p sets.  If 4k fails as badly as 3D did it wouldn't surprise me if 1080p stayed the norm, at least until 4k prices become comparable to 720p->1080p pricing.


----------



## scott5526

jeremyr said:


> While this is the general case, it's not 100% true. Stand 15 feet away from a 4K TV in best buy, and you can tell it's the 4K TV. You can't put your finger on why you know, but you know. The difference is clear.
> 
> Also, today's TV's and computer monitors only differ in use cases. They are the same technology. No one can calculate on a forum how readers use there consoles. Millions of console players sit at a desk with there console connected to a computer monitor. I happen to be one of them. Millions of people play PC games connected to TV's.
> 
> It's not the old days anymore.


 
 The problem is no, you can't tell a difference.  Unless we're talking a mammoth sized tv from 15 feet away you won't be able to tell a difference.  I went to best buy just the other day and with the exception of being 1-2ft away from the screens I couldn't tell any difference, at all.  If you plan on using a 4k tv as a monitor it would be the most practical realistic application of a 4k tv.  The problem right now is most 4k tvs are still relatively large compared to standard monitors, so unless you're the guy sitting 2ft off a 40"+ tv (which you shouldn't in the long term if you value your sight) using a 4k tv as a monitor isn't practical.  If you're sitting further away there won't be any differences unless you have abnormally good eyes, most people don't.  Like I said in an earlier post there are already 4k monitors though, which may be a good investment.  It's just that all but the largest 4k tvs are usually impractical.


----------



## JeremyR

scott5526 said:


> Like all things in business that depends on how popular 4k gets.  At its current price point it is several times more expensive than typical 1080 sets that are otherwise identical.  I would hope consumers would then be more likely to demo 4k sets before buying them and realize their differences compared to 1080p sets.  If 4k fails as badly as 3D did it wouldn't surprise me if 1080p stayed the norm, at least until 4k prices become comparable to 720p->1080p pricing.


 
  
 To me, 4K shines when the source is generated locally. So as a computer monitor. And yes, in your living room hooked up to an XBox One, it's a computer monitor.
  
 Now I know it does not support this today, but let's say in 2 years after the 15th patch, the One supports 4K. So while the games would be upscaled and most likely would never look any better, if you snapped a Skype call that's being recorded in 1080p while you watch TV or played a game, the call would look noticeably better.
  
 Also, as with anything, when these techs first come out, the difference to the eye is small. I remember when DVD came out, the delta over S-VHS was small, however after watching DVD's for a few months, when I went back to a S-VHS it looked horrible. This phenomenon happened as well with DVD to 720, and 720 to 1080.
  
 I am sure it's happening now with 1080 to 4K. Does not look that much better. But once everything you see is in 4K, 1080 is going to look like crap to you.


----------



## JeremyR

scott5526 said:


> The problem is no, you can't tell a difference.


 
 We will just have to disagree here.


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> No. Wanna know what the difference is? The 4k tv at best buy is being fed the best signal out of all their televisions. Thats the difference. Also, it has the best specs, in terms of colors, contrast, etc.
> 
> When you dial in a similar 1080p set being fed with the same exact 4k source, you'll be hard pressed to tell the difference. Even cnet covered this at length.
> 
> ...


 
  
 This is accurate to an extent. Source, I worked for Best Buy Magnolia Home Theater from '06-'09. When it comes to the store demos you will indeed find the best sources on the newest/best TVs. We sold the Pioneer Elite monitors front and center running them off the best Blu-ray player we had available. At the time it was a $3000 Pioneer Elite BDP. That said, every television and monitor that was wall mounted was running off the same 1080i feed so they were getting equal treatment. But just as MLE says we had the latest and greatest always running off Blu-ray to increase sales. That said, if a customer wanted to demo a specific unit I'd hook up a Blu-ray player to any TV for them. 
  
 We also did the side by side comparison showing a calibrated set and one straight out of the box. We intentionally left the non-calibrated unit on the showroom setting and had the calibrated set properly. When we had the lights on in the room customers preferred the non as by default they're overly bright and the contrast is too high. But when we dimmed the lights to normal levels people began to prefer the calibrated and when we turned the lights off customers hated the "stock" set.
  
 In a nutshell stores do what they can to increase sales of the best services. Can the average Joe tell the difference between a professionally calibrated and a self calibrated set when they aren't side by side? Absolutely not. When the average person takes their TV home and can't compare side by side to others more and less expensive will they notice? Not at all. But if you go to a reputable store that actually cares about getting you the right set for your needs they won't be trying to take advantage of you. If the best TV for my customer was a $160 HDCRT that's what I sold them. If what they wanted was the $30k 107" LCD and it suited their needs, that's what they bought. If they wanted big, would I offer front projection as an amazing size/qualityrice ratio? You bet. Hell, I gave the same customer a demo week after week after week for about 4 months before he finally decided. I wasn't out to get a sale on every person, I was out to get the perfect combination for that customer no matter how long it took.
  
 Not every store is out for the quick sale. Most of them are, and that's reality, but go to the right place and they'll do it right.


----------



## scott5526

jeremyr said:


> from the link:
> 
> "The differences in detail I did see were limited to the very best 4K demo material. Larger TVs or closer seating distances make that difference more visible,* as do computer graphics, animation, and games*, but even then it's not drastic."
> 
> So what he is saying is resolution seen in captured video is hard to tell, however for the purposes of this thread, not so much.


 
 Not entirely sure what that CNET author is talking about regarding the bolded parts.  The issue with 4k is the human eye's ability to make out the extra pixels.  The cases where it can include watching a 4k tv from very close up or when watching a huge tv.  There are exceptions, such as people gifted with abnormally good eyes, but for the vast majority of people those are the limitations.  It's not so much about having better quality material on the screen as much as your eyes can't register the extra resolution.  That's why the jump in picture quality from SD to HD was so huge and the jump from HD to UHD isn't when UHD is 2160p.  Think about it.  If 360p to 720p brings on such a huge jump in picture quality why doesn't 1080p to 2160p bring in a bigger one?.  Your eyes can pick up 360p to 720p at normal viewing distances on, for this argument, a 40".  At the same time, your eyes can't pick up the jump from 720p (or 1080p) to 2160p at the same distance.  
  
 EDIT:
 You shouldn't need a lot of 4k material to tell a difference between 4k and 1080/720p.  A few clips of films done on native 4k vs native 1080/720p should make the difference obvious.  Even when HD originally came out when there wasn't a lot of material out for it I remember watching football games on a 42" from 6-10ft away that were done in HD and the difference between SD and HD was completely undeniable.  That isn't the case this time around from 720/1080p to 2160p though.


----------



## JeremyR

axelcloris said:


> Source, I worked for Best Buy Magnolia Home Theater from '06-'09.


 
  
 I am a fan of Magnolia stores. Then again, I am a fan of Best Buy, so that might make me a minority. Dick Schulze is a family friend of ours, so we kind of have to be.


----------



## noxa

I didn't expect those poll results to be so one sided, but i went PS4, got it a week ago, poor launch line up unfortunately but they always are.


----------



## AxelCloris

jeremyr said:


> I am a fan of Magnolia stores. Then again, I am a fan of Best Buy, so that might make me a minority. Dick Schulze is a family friend of ours, so we kind of have to be.


 
  
 I'm still a fan of their stores as well. Because of how rarely they get sales compared to normal Best Buys their sales goals are much lower. If I made one sale a week I met my goals. And since I actually listened to what people needed getting that one sale was simple. So my team focused on doing right by the customers. Heck, on word of mouth alone a local gentleman came in and spoke with me one day asking about his home cinema. There were many specialty stores in Cincinnati at the time focusing on home cinemas but he came to us after a friend's recommendation.
  
 After about 3 hours he walked out spending $12k. We had him up and running within two weeks (several items were special order) and didn't see him from that point for a few months. Then December rolled around and I received a letter from him. He was thanking us for giving him an excellent experience from first walking in the door to watching his first movie on his new setup. He had included cash as a thank you but our policy was to decline any tips from customers. My team also kept track of some customer information such as birthdays and anniversaries and we'd send them a birthday card and such when time came. So I sent him back a holiday card and let him know that we had made an anonymous donation to a local charity with his funds.
  
 Magnolia was a great company to work for until Best Buy underwent the corporate restructure in 2009. That's when I left and came to my current employer.
  
 Damn, I'm being quite wordy today.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

scott5526 said:


> If 360p to 720p brings on such a huge jump in picture quality why doesn't 1080p to 2160p bring in a bigger one?



Easy. Because 360p is horrible large pixels that our eyes CAN discern. Why not 1080p to 2160p? Because the pixels are too small to make out the differences. Why don't you go to a 1080p screen, and see at WHICH distance do you stop seeing the space between pixels? If you can see the space between the pixels at 15feet from any moderate 1080pHDTV (hell even a 65 inch one), then I applaud those eyes of god that you have. You stop gaining benefit of increased resolution at around the point where you can't make out individual pixels.


----------



## JeremyR

scott5526 said:


> Not entirely sure what that CNET author is talking about regarding the bolded parts.  The issue with 4k is the human eye's ability to make out the extra pixels.  The cases where it can include watching a 4k tv from very close up or when watching a huge tv.  There are exceptions, such as people gifted with abnormally good eyes, but for the vast majority of people those are the limitations.  It's not so much about having better quality material on the screen as much as your eyes can't register the extra resolution.  That's why the jump in picture quality from SD to HD was so huge and the jump from HD to UHD isn't when UHD is 2160p.  Think about it.  If 360p to 720p brings on such a huge jump in picture quality why doesn't 1080p to 2160p bring in a bigger one?.  Your eyes can pick up 360p to 720p at normal viewing distances on, for this argument, a 40".  At the same time, your eyes can't pick up the jump from 720p (or 1080p) to 2160p at the same distance.


 
  
 Let me use a practical example, to see if I can explain what I am talking about.
  
 let's say you are playing a game with first person perspective, and you come to a rope bridge like this one:

  
 however let's say that bridge is so long, it fades off into the distance. the last several board you can see before you can't see anymore, will be about 1 pixel wide. If in real life, you then tilt your head, the end of the bridge would look the same. However on a TV, the end of the bridge will start to moire, like this:

  
 This effect you will see at any distance in a room. As the resolution of your TV approaches infinity, this effect approaches zero. The higher resolution your TV, the less this will happen. Game developers get past it by using anti aliasing, but that degrades the over all image.
  
 This is why while playing a game, if you had a 10K monitor, at 10 feet away, it would be better then a 4K tv, and that would be better then 1080p (provided the game had variable AA at those resolutions).
  
 Once game manufactured no longer care about AA, and not using it does not produce the above effect, we have reached max resolution. We are far away from that point at the moment however.
  
 For watching movies, I agree with you, as this effect almost never happens. But this is a game thread


----------



## scott5526

mad lust envy said:


> Easy. Because 360p is horrible large pixels that our eyes CAN discern. Why not 1080p to 2160p? Because the pixels are too small to make out the differences. Why don't you go to a 1080p screen, and see at WHICH distance do you stop seeing the space between pixels? If you can see the space between the pixels at 15feet from any moderate 1080pHDTV (hell even a 65 inch one), then I applaud those eyes of god that you have. You stop gaining benefit of increased resolution at around the point where you can't make out individual pixels.


 
 That was my point.  Your eyes can't see the increased resolution past a certain point


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, distance is about as important, if not more than the actual resolution. The stupidity with 4K TV is that TV sizes in parallel to the overwhelming majority of living room conditions and viewing distances will never add up.


To really benefit from 4K without looking like a massive idiot with your nose to the screen is that 4k is only truly viable for monitors (where you're very close to the screen as well as visual acuity being better at such a distance), and front projector displays with huge screens.

I myself owned a 1080p projector for a brief period, and I could see the pixel structure from a standard distance of about 10-12 feet. In this instance, I'd TOTALLY go for 4K. But for TV? It's stupid, and unncessary. I always say, TVs should've stopped at 1440p. This would eliminate pixel structure from basically any normal human being's size/tv distance.

As for computer gaming and graphics, that's an issue with the lack of technology to keep aliasing from being such an issue. It's less to do with resolution, more to do with the graphics behind these things.


Long story short: Go back to your Best Buy, check that 4KTV again. Put your nose up to the screen, then slowly move back. AT WHAT distance do YOU stop seeing pixel structure? At around that point is where you are losing 4K benefits and styepping into 1080p territory. A good test for this is a desktop screen, with the time being diaplyed. The fine white text shows pixels quite clearly. I stop seeing the stair stepping on my clock at around 8feet. from my 60inch. Guarantee most of you don't sit 8 feet from a 60 inch screen.


----------



## scott5526

jeremyr said:


> Let me use a practical example, to see if I can explain what I am talking about.
> 
> let's say you are playing a game with first person perspective, and you come to a rope bridge like this one:
> 
> ...


 
 I see your point regarding aliasing.  I understand that increased resolution is a solution to aliasing, but I don't know the extent resolution needs to be increased to for aliasing to become un-noticeable to the human eye and under what conditions.  I'll leave it at that.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57366319-221/why-4k-tvs-are-stupid/

Here's another article with some hard math.

I think 4K is a viable solution for realistically 75 inch TVs in rooms with 10ft distances. You won't gain the full benefit of 4k, but you'll gain some, over 1080p.

But for 65inches or less from closer than 9ft? I call BS. Some good old fashioned expectation bias.


The average TV to seating diatcne is what: 10-12feet? That's not even 1080p territory for 65 inch TVs or smaller.


----------



## JeremyR

mad lust envy said:


> As for computer gaming and graphics, that's an issue with the lack of technology to keep aliasing from being such an issue. It's less to do with resolution, more to do with the graphics behind these things.


 
  
 No, it's not (by the way, I am a software developer who has done several OpenGL projects).
  
 To drill it down to the simplest of terms, we are rasterizing a vector domain. When you look at a diagonal line in real life, a solid line of light is painted across your retina. On a computer monitor, you are using a grid of pixels to simulate the same experience. This is not a software problem. It's a hardware problem advanced software techniques try to overcome.
  
 Another good test, is to take a white screen, and draw one pixel width of a horizontal line across it in black. If you can see that line, technology has not yet reached the point where resolution no longer matters.
  
 I know of no screen where at normal operating distances this is true.


----------



## JeremyR

ops, hit the quote button, not the edit one. Deleting post.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, I know that. That sort of test is simple. We will never approach a resolution that can accurately portray what a human eye is capable of.

I'm speaking generally, with actual content, not some closed testing.


----------



## scott5526

mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, distance is about as important, if not more than the actual resolution. The stupidity with 4K TV is that TV sizes in parallel to the overwhelming majority of living room conditions and viewing distances will never add up.
> 
> 
> To really benefit from 4K without looking like a massive idiot with your nose to the screen is that 4k is only truly viable for monitors (where you're very close to the screen as well as visual acuity being better at such a distance), and front projector displays with huge screens.
> ...


 
 That's about what I did at Best Buy.  Mind you I only spent a few minutes doing it and I wasn't overly analytical, but the pixels stopped seeming overly blocky on the 1080p from around 2 feet back and the differences weren't immediately noticeable.  I was satisfied at that point that I wasn't going to be sitting within 2-3ft of a 50-60ish inch tv for general purposes and left it at that.


----------



## JeremyR

mad lust envy said:


> Oh, I know that. That sort of test is simple. We will never approach a resolution that can accurately portray what a human eye is capable of.
> 
> I'm speaking generally, with actual content, not some closed testing.


 
  
 One day we will approach that, and that's why it matters to have higher resolution screens.
  
 However this is not a closed testing issue that only happens in a lab. If console games turned off AA, you would see it happening all over the place. The only reason we have AA at all, is to combat this issue.
  
 Just because they have done an OK job of it, does not mean we would not benefit from higher resolutions without AA.


----------



## JeremyR

mad lust envy said:


> Put your nose up to the screen, then slowly move back. AT WHAT distance do YOU stop seeing pixel structure? At around that point is where you are losing 4K benefits and styepping into 1080p territory.


 
  
 This is absolutely not true. This might be true for watching movies, or anything filmed. But for any content that is computer generated, there is a lot more to it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

In scientific testing (let's call it scientific), A perfect diagonal line of one pixel width moving at the rate of one pixel jump vertically and horizontally will look perfectly straight at around 9 feet from a 60-inch screen for ME. It will no longer look like pixel stair stepping after that. The point where the line doesn't look like stairs is the limits of YOUR eyes at that specific resolution since one pixel difference will look like a straight line. So beyond that distance,. I wouldn't gain absolutely any benefit over 1080p.


You keep bringing computer games, no AA, but that is not a normal occurence, and again, is limited to specific individuals.

We're talking normal content, which will undoubtedly have post processing done.

But once you get your 4K TV, enjoy justifying it as much as you want. The rare cases where it will matter are so few and far between, especially for the vast majority of consumers.

It's 320kbps vs lossless all over again.


----------



## JeremyR

mad lust envy said:


> In scientific testing (let's call it scientific), A perfect diagonal line of one pixel width moving at the rate of one pixel jump vertically and horizontally will look perfectly straight at around 9 feet from a 60-inch screen for ME. It will no longer look like pixel stair stepping after that. The point where the line doesn't look like stairs is the limits of YOUR eyes at that specific resolution since one pixel difference will look like a straight line. So beyond that distance,. I wouldn't gain absolutely any benefit over 1080p.
> 
> 
> You keep bringing computer games, no AA, but that is not a normal occurence, and again, is limited to specific individuals.
> ...


 
  
 Your example explains a photograph, not a video. So let's finish your experiment.
  
 Once you get to the distance where that single pixel length line looks solid, let's rotate it slowly to horizontal. In doing so (without AA), there were be parts of the line that disappear, because the math says the width is less then half a pixel. There will also be parts of the line that's two pixels long, next to a single pixel length. You will be able to tell it's not a solid line as it rotates.
  
 Now let's make it even worse. Le's say it was not one line, but 10 single pixel lines one pixel apart. When you get to the point where all you see is 10 diagonal lines, and no pixels, when you rotate them all to horizontal, you will start to see a moire pattern, as each line at some points is two pixels apart, and at other points touch each other. Once they get to horizontal, they will look perfect again.
  
 We fix this today with anti aliasing. The problem is for the last experiment, if you turned on AA, you would not longer be able to pick out those 10 distinct lines. When you rotated them they would not look out of place, but you will look like your rotating a strange pattern, and not 10 lines.
  
 Now stay in the exact same place without AA turned on, replace your 1080p TV with the same size 4K TV, and do the exact same test at 4K, and the image as the lines move to horizontal will look vastly improved.


----------



## Change is Good

Derailed thread, I see... lol

PSA: I absolutely love my PS4


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Derailed thread, I see... lol
> 
> PSA: I absolutely love my PS4


 
  
 That sounded like self service rather than you servicing the public.


----------



## scott5526

What good thread doesn't get derailed from time to time?


----------



## money4me247

whether 4k resolution is necessary or not, it's pretty cool how fast our technology advances & with that prices of older equipment falls. win win for everyone i think.
  
 ya, i just wouldn't buy 4k options at the current price point lol


----------



## thatBeatsguy

scott5526 said:


> What good thread doesn't get derailed from time to time?


 
 Nothing, but I'm guessing you already knew that.
  
 I choose the PS4, partly because I've owned a PS1, 2, and 3. Still, given the current loadout, I don't want to buy either. Both are pretty much garbage until later this year when more titles come out.


----------



## Change is Good

thatbeatsguy said:


> Nothing, but I'm guessing you already knew that.
> 
> I choose the PS4, partly because I've owned a PS1, 2, and 3. Still, given the current loadout, I don't want to buy either. Both are pretty much garbage until later this year when more titles come out.


 
  
 LOL. I doubt the consoles, themselves, are garbage because of the lack of launch titles. Wait until you get one and experience it for yourself... you'll eat your words


----------



## thatBeatsguy

change is good said:


> LOL. I doubt the consoles, themselves, are garbage because of the lack of launch titles. Wait until you get one and experience it for yourself... you'll eat your words


 
      I know how good the consoles are, that's true. But considering my location, both consoles are trash compared to their predecessors. The new consoles have a *lot* of social features (like video/photo capture with instant share to FB or YT, along with TV streaming with Netflix or other services, etc etc) which, sadly, don't work in my area. Add that to regional limitations (DRM and other stuff) and I would rather spend the money on a lot of games on Steam during their annual sales.
      To my bottom line, the new consoles are awesome, but only if you live in North America or Europe. To my knowledge, China is *never* supported on PSN or XBL. Not even the App and Play Stores release their entire library in China. It's a godforsaken country where I live in, but I've lived with it for half of my life, so I guess I don't really care anymore.


----------



## SSHouse

For either its best to wait. Sony has a bad track record of putting in sub par optical readers, and MS has a bad record of rushing the hardware and giving people "phantom" issues" Currentlt theirs talk that the XBOX1 leaks fluid. Dont know if its true or not. But to be honest Im not thrilled with either console (and this is coming from an XBOX hacking site admin) Even mods on our XBOX1 site are talking going PS4 not 1, but personally I see both as a bad investment until at least the the reincarnation so to speak and theyve started to address any issues found in the original release.


----------



## Change is Good

I have the accidental protection plan on PS4 that covers me for three years. So no worries here and well worth the extra $60.

Also, I will add and say that whether a new gen console is worth the buy really depends on what you have right now. If you have a gaming PC then no... not at this moment. But if all you game on is consoles and you are on 360/PS3 then yes... a new gen console is definitely worth the purchase.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, having a gaming laptop... buying a PS4 is nearly pointless for me, with the exception of preferring the CoD community (and I prefer playing against controller gamers, since K&M players would destroy me,) and I get to play with my friends who really only play on consoles.

PC gaming is just a LOOOOOOT cheaper, and my laptop is more powerful than the PS4 in general.


----------



## shatteredsoul76

I bought the PS4 on launch, been with PS since the PS1. Im loving it so far but will be glad when Sony patches in more goodies like they did with the PS3. It also kind of sucks that there isnt many games out yet, I do have AC4, BF4 and Ghosts to hold me over until more titles come out.


----------



## ASillyUsername

I know this is a thread for Microsoft and Sony, but is there any specific reason Nintendo was excluded?


----------



## Change is Good

LOL

Maybe because they're a generation behind?!?


----------



## JeremyR

asillyusername said:


> I know this is a thread for Microsoft and Sony, but is there any specific reason Nintendo was excluded?


 
  
 Same reason they were excluded in the last generation. You either want to play Nintendo games or you don't. If you do, no debate. You just get a Wii. If you don't, there is absolutely no reason to enter it into the debate.


----------



## Accoun

asillyusername said:


> I know this is a thread for Microsoft and Sony, but is there any specific reason Nintendo was excluded?




Because PS and Xbox are more or less the same (target-wise, game-wise, feature-wise, even hardware-wise). 


Spoiler



AKA more dumb version of PC


Nintendo is different, for better or worse.


----------



## ASillyUsername

change is good said:


> LOL
> 
> Maybe because they're a generation behind?!?


 I could argue the same for the xbox one and ps4.


----------



## ASillyUsername

JeremyRAccoun I was hoping I was not the only one who thought that, thank you.


----------



## JeremyR

asillyusername said:


> I could argue the same for the xbox one and ps4.


 
 Not really. To build an equivalent PC you will end up spending around the same amount.
  
 That means it's right on par with current generation hardware. In some cases they are ahead. Where can you buy DDR5 ram for a PC? Where can you get a motion sensor on a PC as high quality as the ONE?


----------



## DADDYDC650

jeremyr said:


> Not really. To build an equivalent PC you will end up spending around the same amount.
> 
> That means it's right on par with current generation hardware. In some cases they are ahead. Where can you buy DDR5 ram for a PC? Where can you get a motion sensor on a PC as high quality as the ONE?


 
 GDDR5 has been in GPU's for years. I wouldn't really call Kintect 2 "high quality". That thing has big issues even recognizing my voice commands... "Xbox, on, Xbox, on...., XBOX ON!!!!"


----------



## scott5526

I wouldn't judge strictly by the "xbox on" command.  I have troubles with that one particular and only that one particular command.  I think the kinect is in standby mode while the xbox is off and it affects its ability to pick up that command.
  
 On a side note, using your hands to maneuver with kinect can be kind of glitchy.  Usually it's fine, but occasionally my hands spike all over the screen.


----------



## DADDYDC650

scott5526 said:


> I wouldn't judge strictly by the "xbox on" command.  I have troubles with that one particular and only that one particular command.  I think the kinect is in standby mode while the xbox is off and it affects its ability to pick up that command.
> 
> On a side note, using your hands to maneuver with kinect can be kind of glitchy.  Usually it's fine, but occasionally my hands spike all over the screen.


 
 I have issues with other commands as well. The Xbox on command is the most annoying though and if your TV volume is a little high, you will be repeating yourself constantly. Hopefully it improves over time with updates from MS.


----------



## JeremyR

daddydc650 said:


> GDDR5 has been in GPU's for years. I wouldn't really call Kintect 2 "high quality". That thing has big issues even recognizing my voice commands... "Xbox, on, Xbox, on...., XBOX ON!!!!"


 
 The PS4 had DDR5 available for the CPU. Something you can't get in the PC yet. And the issue everyone has with the Kinect 2 are software related. There are many PC projects that use the Kinect, and would love to use something like the Kinect 2 instead, but nothing of that quality is available.
  
 That would put some of the hardware in the new consoles in the next gen category.


----------



## conquerator2

jeremyr said:


> The PS4 had DDR5 available for the CPU. Something you can't get in the PC yet. And the issue everyone has with the Kinect 2 are software related. There are many PC projects that use the Kinect, and would love to use something like the Kinect 2 instead, but nothing of that quality is available.
> 
> That would put some of the hardware in the new consoles in the next gen category.


 
 Well, it is GDDR5 
 Anyway, the thing is, that Kinect is blocking 10% of Xbox One's power for itself.
 If you include the fact that it has 3 OSes [vs. PS4's 1, which would be much easier to tweak] and the other fact that it is slightly weaker hardware wise than the PS4.
 No wonder the XOne runs most games at 720P, while PS3 does the same at 1080P.
 The architectual choices leave it more powerful by default, and the software/ Kinect decision certainly don't help...


----------



## JeremyR

conquerator2 said:


> Well, it is GDDR5
> Anyway, the thing is, that Kinect is blocking 10% of Xbox One's power for itself.
> If you include the fact that it has 3 OSes [vs. PS4's 1, which would be much easier to tweak] and the other fact that it is slightly weaker hardware wise than the PS4.
> No wonder the XOne runs most games at 720P, while PS3 does the same at 1080P.
> The architectual choices leave it more powerful by default, and the software/ Kinect decision certainly don't help...


 
  
 I agree Microsoft's implementation of the Kinect can cause the One to be a less capable gaming machine (if you don't use the Kinect). Still does not mean the Kinect itself is not in the class of "next gen" hardware.
  
 Where can you find one as good or better for the PC?


----------



## conquerator2

jeremyr said:


> I agree Microsoft's implementation of the Kinect can cause the One to be a less capable gaming machine (if you don't use the Kinect). Still does not mean the Kinect itself is not in the class of "next gen" hardware.
> 
> Where can you find one as good or better for the PC?




Wouldn't it be better if it was a PC only thing then?
Or PC first and once fully tweaked ported to XOne?
I reckon it'd be for the better, wouldn't it?
More use there.


----------



## JeremyR

conquerator2 said:


> Wouldn't it be better if it was a PC only thing then?
> Or PC first and once fully tweaked ported to XOne?
> I reckon it'd be for the better, wouldn't it?
> More use there.


 
 Sure, I guess. There might be marketing reasons why it's better to include it with the One (being everything else about it is worse then the PS4)
  
 But again, that has nothing to do with what I am talking about. I made a statement that the Kinect should be classified as next gen hardware, and I still make that claim.
  
 How smart or stupid Microsoft is at how they chose to use it, is not relevant


----------



## conquerator2

jeremyr said:


> Sure, I guess. There might be marketing reasons why it's better to include it with the One (being everything else about it is worse then the PS4)
> 
> But again, that has nothing to do with what I am talking about. I made a statement that the Kinect should be classified as next gen hardware, and I still make that claim.
> 
> How smart or stupid Microsoft is at how they chose to use it, is not relevant


 
 I am not arguing about that, it is by all means a next gen device.
 That would IMO benefit from being a multi-functional, multiplatform device. rather than made specifically to be used with a console [what everybody also calls a 100$ waste, because, frankly, nobody wanted such a device to be mandatorily included with the console]
 So yes, it would benefit more if it were sold separately, much like the PS Eye/Camera [though Kinect is probably significantly better]


----------



## JeremyR

So far neither of us has said anything the other does not agree with here. We are just having two different conversations.


----------



## JeremyR

actually, I take that back. I am not 100% convinced yet that including the Kinect with every console is a bad move. Microsoft needs to do something to differentiate itself from the PS4. Do I think it overcomes the fact that it's a less powerful console, no. But what else are they going to do?
  
 Also, at some point the cost of hardware will go down, and both consoles will cost the same. At this point, there is a lot of value in being able to tell your game developers that every person with a One, has a Kinect.
  
 All it takes is one killer game that everyone needs to own, to make it pay off. That game has never been made, and I am not sure it ever will, but it's not a stupid gamble.
  
 What I think sucks without question, is Microsoft not selling it as a PC accessory with a windows SDK. That is stupid.


----------



## conquerator2

jeremyr said:


> 1]actually, I take that back. I am not 100% convinced yet that including the Kinect with every console is a bad move. Microsoft needs to do something to differentiate itself from the PS4. Do I think it overcomes the fact that it's a less powerful console, no. But what else are they going to do?
> 
> 2]Also, at some point the cost of hardware will go down, and both consoles will cost the same. At this point, there is a lot of value in being able to tell your game developers that every person with a One, has a Kinect.
> 
> ...


 
 1]Well they shouldn't have included it there in the first place IMO. To include something somewhere, should mean that it has a purpose to be there from the start. But no one can really say that about the Kinect, other than helping to make navigating through the OS[es] less obnoxious [but it is like that because it was build around the Kinect in the first place].
 So far, there is one Kinect game [and it is terrible] and the rest are tack-ons [a bit of voice command here or such, nothing really useful] so there is not a single decent Kinect game at launch...
 Why should you pay a hundred bucks more for something that should have been optional in the first place? It's not a controller or harddrive, it's essentially an add-on that should have been optional IMO. It worked with the 360.
 I am sure if the system costed 500 USD AND was more powerful than the PS4, people wouldn't complain about it. But it is both more expensive AND weaker as of now.
  
 2]Yeah, but it's the same thing. I am quite sure that even if they will eventually be the same price [though I think they will always be a difference of at least $50 in favor of Playstation], you still have a camera and a weaker console.
 If there is a killer app/game for the Kinect then that'd be okay, but the original Kinect has been here for some time now and it still doesn't have it either.
  
 3] I think it is a pretty big gamble. It's something that makes the box a hundred bucks more expensive, nobody wanted it and bogs down the system noticeably. If that's not a gamble then what is? Its almost like the PS3 launch all over again IMO.
  
 4]Yep, that definitely sucks. I know a few people who'd take advantage of it if it did work with a PC. As of now, there is even a proprietary connector. Not even mentioning the fact that the original Kinect is still not working well with a PC today.
  
 Though I generally agree with what you said.


----------



## JeremyR

Just a few comments about your comments 
  
 I don't think the Kinect slows down the console much. It's the fact that they virtualize a few copies of there OS, so you can watch TV and other various things while you play.
  
 The new Kinect I am sure takes more power then a standard USB will provide. So that's why it's not a standard connector. No reason why they can't make a cable with a USB and Wall adapter on it, for a retail release of the device for PC.
  
 As for no games out for it, you can say that in general about the PS4 and One all together. This is the single thing I hate the most about console gaming. I have over 100 games in my stream library, and when I replace my PC in 4 years with whatever is "next gen", I will instantly have all those games to play, and whatever else I acquire over the next 4 years.
  
 I have a PS3 and a 360. The only reason I have a 360, is my wife uses the Kinect for fitness games. We also use it for parties with dancing and crap like that. We never turn on the PS3 for parties.
  
 So while it's a useless attachment for you and me, it's not of no value for many of Microsofts customer base.


----------



## DADDYDC650

jeremyr said:


> The PS4 had DDR5 available for the CPU. Something you can't get in the PC yet. And the issue everyone has with the Kinect 2 are software related. There are many PC projects that use the Kinect, and would love to use something like the Kinect 2 instead, but nothing of that quality is available.
> 
> That would put some of the hardware in the new consoles in the next gen category.


 
 To be fair, GDDR5 has been in PC's for years. I never said anything about the CPU being able to utilize it in PC's.


----------



## conquerator2

jeremyr said:


> Just a few comments about your comments
> 
> I don't think the Kinect slows down the console much. It's the fact that they virtualize a few copies of there OS, so you can watch TV and other various things while you play.
> 
> ...


 
 A few comments about your comments about my comments 
 I am sure I've read somewhere that there is exactly 10% of system resources reserved for Kinect and I believe it was said by of the MS's engineers. That's not that bad but it's something. Coupled with multiple OS and ESRAM, I am sure it doesn't make things easy for the devs.
  
 I'd reckon it could be made into a USB connector [sticking to the theme, they are amplifiers powered by USB... I don't think this thing needs more power than an amp does]. The PS Camera has a proprietary auxilary port too for some reason. Not that either means anything but using some sort of standardized connection protocol rather than their proprietary ones would be better IMO.
  
 There are good reasons to believe the next next-gen consoles will be backwards compatible if they follow the "supercharged-PC" architecture.  Then again, they can stray back to exotic parts but I hope they won't for obvious reasons. There is Sony's promise of Gaikai PS3 games streaming on the PS4. This is FAR from ideal but it's better than nothing, right?
  
 I have a PS3 and X360 too. I bought the Xbox first because it was released sooner and I won't deny I enjoyed it immensely. But I had 2 of them die on me within a year and so I bought the PS3, which has been going strong for 5 years now [knocks on wood] and never looked back.
  
 Though I did grow up on the PS1 and PS2 [first Xbox was practically unknown here, nobody had it and almost everyone never heard about it, me included] and I have the fondest memories of them. Xbox was great but once I bought the PS3 I knew it'll stay with me and since I love almost each and every of Sony's exclusive. [it'd be definitely much harder for me to abandon them than it was for the Xbox's exclusive games, which were few and far between to begin with...]
  
 Right now, my 360 serves the exact same purposes as yours do, that is party & dancing [without the wife part] and I do play a dancing game from time to time too :] But it's the casual console in the house.
  
 I never said Kinect was a useless device. It has much potential to help humanity [disabled people, etc], I just don't see it ever becoming an essential part of gaming.


----------



## JeremyR

conquerator2 said:


> I never said Kinect was a useless device. It has much potential to help humanity [disabled people, etc], I just don't see it ever becoming an essential part of gaming.


 
  
 I tend to agree, but I so want it to. It's one of those really cool ideas that no one has yet been able to do right. I would love to box where I really have to move right in order to box. I would love to use a light saber, learn sign language, and many other things.
  
 It's one of those devices you want around, just in case someone figures out how to develop something revolutionary for it.
  
 However until then, turn on the PS4


----------



## JeremyR

daddydc650 said:


> To be fair, GDDR5 has been in PC's for years. I never said anything about the CPU being able to utilize it in PC's.


 
 Never meant to imply your statement was wrong.
  
 Just clarifying that what I meant was, main memory for the CPU side being GDDR5. We don't have that (yet) in a PC.


----------



## barleyguy

change is good said:


> LOL
> 
> Maybe because they're a generation behind?!?


 

 No, they're not.  "Generation" is a measurement of time.  You're misusing the word generation.


----------



## Change is Good

I love it when people over analyze things. But if it makes you feel better... you are correct... when it comes to terminology.

But... that doesn't change what I said. Nintendo is a generation behind (for consoles). Deal with the way I use that word. Don't like it? Well... muhuhahahaha


----------



## thatBeatsguy

barleyguy said:


> No, they're not.  "Generation" is a measurement of time.  You're misusing the word generation.


 
      Yes, 'generation' does denote a (slightly variable) measurement of time (30-35 years), but the word could also be used to refer to a specific group, be it people or products, made in a particular length of time (like people in the 80s generation, etc.). Moreover, the term 'generation' could also be used to refer to advances in technology, like the mobile generation for instance (the same tech generation we're in). But if you really want to stick to it's core meaning, go ahead. 
   
 Quote:


change is good said:


> I love it when people over analyze things. But if it makes you feel better... you are correct... when it comes to terminology.
> 
> But... that doesn't change what I said. Nintendo is a generation behind (for consoles). Deal with the way I use that word. Don't like it? Well... muhuhahahaha


 
      I think I want to agree. Nintendo is getting really far behind now since the GCN. Sure, the motion controls on the Wii were great, but now everyone else is picking up and making their own (Kinect and PS Move). which is a bad thing. Nintendo's run out of bright ideas, I think; and they need a new battle plan if they're going to keep up in this generation.
  
 Also...


----------



## JeremyR

I think there is a good chance that this is the last generation of consoles as we know them. Things like mobile computer and steam machines are going to put an end to it.


----------



## Change is Good

Not if they're price tags stay at $1000+

The thing about consoles is that they are both affordable and consumer friendly.


----------



## thatBeatsguy

change is good said:


> Not if they're (**their*) price tags stay at $1000+
> 
> The thing about consoles is that _they are both affordable and consumer friendly_.


 
    Still, this gen's consoles are really amping up on pretty much everything, including the *price*, and IMHO, 400/500 bucks aren't exactly "affordable" in the least. As for being consumer-friedly, I kinda agree with you there. Though PC gaming is pretty complex in most respects (like installation of multi-disc games), it actually makes you learn a thing or two. Still, seeing my mom and lots of other people, the user-friendliness of consoles (as well as handhelds and tablets) give it its own edge.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I was interested in a Steam machine until I saw razer's Project Christine Modular PC.

This is the kind of future I want for PC. It doesn't look cheap though.

http://reviews.cnet.com/desktops/razer-project-christine/4505-3118_7-35834097.html

It will make it a lot more accessible to non-enthusiasts who want to get into PC gaming. Replacing/adding parts is as simple as attaching a USB drive, only bigger. No longer having to go into the back of your desktop, unscrew, ett, and deal with all the other fuss.

Having now owned a gaming laptop, I don't see myself playing console games other than exclusives, due to the constant low prices on PC games, and because I don't play online much anyways.


----------



## thatBeatsguy

mad lust envy said:


> I was interested in a Steam machine until I saw razer's Project Christine Modular PC.
> 
> This is the kind of future I want for PC. It doesn't look cheap though.
> 
> ...


 
      To me, I guess that's the main reason why I still play on the PS3 (I find myself playing LBP2 more often than not), but that Project Christine looks mighty interesting, and probably about time a prototype comes out since Phonebloks is essentially the modular smartphone of the future. Hopefully Project Christine might actually be feasible and be implemented.
      But wait...it's by *Razer?!*
      I don't know why, but Razer seems to be expanding to a lot of stuff beyond PC gaming; they're set on making three new headphones for the mass market, not just of gaming as they used to. But based on their headphone track record, I'm willing to bet that it wouldn't turn out nicely. 
  
http://www.slashgear.com/razer-adaro-headphones-and-earbuds-series-hands-on-07311957/


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Headphones are only a smaaaaall part of their business. They make everything from mechanical keyboards, gaming mouses, etc. They are a peripheral company, sort of like Mad Catz, Steelseries, etc, only now expanding a LOT more with their more recent releases of gaming laptops, tablets, and now the possible modular PC.

I know their gaming laptop was well received.


----------



## thatBeatsguy

mad lust envy said:


> Headphones are only a smaaaaall part of their business. They make everything from mechanical keyboards, gaming mouses, etc. They are a peripheral company, sort of like Mad Catz, Steelseries, etc, only now expanding a LOT more with their more recent releases of gaming laptops, tablets, and now the possible modular PC.
> 
> I know their gaming laptop was well received.


 
      I agree. I thought I read somewhere that Razer had some aim to "make things that they want made" or something like that. As for their gaming laptops (Razer Blade and Blade Pro) I honestly  think that they look really gorgeous. Also, Mr. Kjellberg (my favorite YouTuber) uses it, lol. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 He doesn't market it or anything tho, just sayin'.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I haven't owned any of their products, but the modular PC would definitely pique my interest.


----------



## JeremyR

mad lust envy said:


> I haven't owned any of their products, but the modular PC would definitely pique my interest.


 
 Project Christine will never happen. The concept has lots of problems.
  
 The two biggest is price, and product time to market. If you are the kind of person who will buy this, you are also the kind of person who wants the latest tech when it comes out. You don't want to have to wait 3 months for Razor to put the latest video card in a liquid cooled enclosure, and then pay $100 more for it. Especially if you want 4 of them.


----------



## JeremyR

change is good said:


> Not if they're price tags stay at $1000+
> 
> The thing about consoles is that they are both affordable and consumer friendly.


 
 Those two things are what Steam Machines are designed to deliver. Alienware's version is $500. The same price as the One. The amount of setup is the same as any other console. 
  
 However it is a LOT more affordable in the long run, even with the hardware the same price. The reason is no cost for online play, and you can buy AAA games for next to nothing.
  
 The next console launch will be in 5-8 years. I expect a ton of changes in the world over that time. Enough to the point where it might not ever happen.
  
 Oh, and let's not forget Sony Now. With just a new Sony TV (and a dual shock controller), you can play high end games in your living room. That might be the answer in 5 years. Just an online service.
  
 I used to use Onlive, and it worked great. As more people get high speed internet, I see no reason why this can't be the future. It could be the future of Steam as well.


----------



## thatBeatsguy

jeremyr said:


> Project Christine will never happen. The concept has lots of problems.
> 
> The two biggest is price, and product time to market. *If you are the kind of person who will buy this*, you are also the kind of person who wants the latest tech when it comes out. You don't want to have to wait 3 months for Razor to put the latest video card in a liquid cooled enclosure, and then pay $100 more for it. Especially if you want 4 of them.


 
      If someone was the type of person who would buy this, then he probably is a total newbie when it comes to replacing parts in a PC. Of course, the pros would find it easier to install and replace, but seeing that the installation mechanism is for the most part proprietary, then one would be spending a little more than normal for next gen's parts, which is a pain. I still wonder why there had to be modular PCs when the entire system's parts are still user-replaceable in the end. Convenience, I guess?


----------



## JeremyR

thatbeatsguy said:


> If someone was the type of person who would buy this, then he probably is a total newbie when it comes to replacing parts in a PC. Of course, the pros would find it easier to install and replace, but seeing that the installation mechanism is for the most part proprietary, then one would be spending a little more than normal for next gen's parts, which is a pain. I still wonder why there had to be modular PCs when the entire system's parts are still user-replaceable in the end. Convenience, I guess?


 
  
 Well it's a mineral oil liquid cooled computer without fans. That's the kind of thing I would want, and I have been building PC's for over 30 years. I guess it could be a newbie thing as well.


----------



## barleyguy

thatbeatsguy said:


> Still, this gen's consoles are really amping up on pretty much everything, including the *price*, and IMHO, 400/500 bucks aren't exactly "affordable" in the least. As for being consumer-friedly, I kinda agree with you there. Though PC gaming is pretty complex in most respects (like installation of multi-disc games), it actually makes you learn a thing or two. Still, seeing my mom and lots of other people, the user-friendliness of consoles (as well as handhelds and tablets) give it its own edge.


 
  
 The PS3 was $599 at launch.  The PS2 was $399 if I remember right.  So the launch prices aren't much different this generation than any previous one.  There will be price drops as soon as demand gets lower than supply, possibly this year.
  
 I think the downfall of consoles is not eminent.  It will probably go at least one more generation.
  
 Mobile games move a lot of copies, but don't make much money.  Rovio, the makers of Angry Birds, is about a $150 million a year company.  Nintendo is about a $9 billion a year company.  Sony and Microsoft are hard to measure because they make way more than games.  But there is no mobile game ever released that has made enough money to support AAA development budgets.
  
 That could change someday, but as long as people expect to pay $1 per game (or free with advertising), mobile won't be the platform for AAA games.


----------



## JeremyR

barleyguy said:


> The PS3 was $599 at launch.  The PS2 was $399 if I remember right.  So the launch prices aren't much different this generation than any previous one.  There will be price drops as soon as demand gets lower than supply, possibly this year.
> 
> I think the downfall of consoles is not eminent.  It will probably go at least one more generation.
> 
> ...


 
  
 At CES Nvidia announced the Tegra K1. While this mobile phone chip is as fast as a 360 or PS3, most significantly, it's the same architecture as the GForce cards. So it runs everything the 780 runs, just slower. It has 192 CUDA cores, runs the latest unreal engine (something the 360 and ps3 can't), is 64 bit, and will be out this year.
  
 This is a huge advancement in mobile gaming. For the first time, AAA developers can scale the exact same game to a mobile platform.
  
 If this is out this year, imagine where we will be at in 7 years. With the speed mobile hardware is going, and the fact that the console market is being squeezed  by both directions (Steam Machines coming down from PC gaming, and Mobile hardware coming up from handheld gaming), I really do think consoles as we know them, has reached the last generation.
  
 We will find out in 7 years.


----------



## conquerator2

jeremyr said:


> At CES Nvidia announced the Tegra K1. While this mobile phone chip is as fast as a 360 or PS3, most significantly, it's the same architecture as the GForce cards. So it runs everything the 780 runs, just slower. It has 192 CUDA cores, runs the latest unreal engine (something the 360 and ps3 can't), is 64 bit, and will be out this year.
> 
> This is a huge advancement in mobile gaming. For the first time, AAA developers can scale the exact same game to a mobile platform.
> 
> ...




Gaming with a phone just won't feel the same as using a real console


----------



## JeremyR

conquerator2 said:


> Gaming with a phone just won't feel the same as using a real console


 
  
 Who said gaming with a phone? Just wirelessly connect your phone to the TV, and pick up a controller and play. In fact by 7 years from now, I expect the 4th or 5th version of this CPU to just be in the TV.
  
 Lots can and will change in 7 years. 7 years ago, we didn't have iPhone. Think what's changed between when the 360 and PS3 came out, and today.


----------



## conquerator2

jeremyr said:


> Who said gaming with a phone? Just wirelessly connect your phone to the TV, and pick up a controller and play. In fact by 7 years from now, I expect the 4th or 5th version of this CPU to just be in the TV.
> 
> Lots can and will change in 7 years. 7 years ago, we didn't have iPhone. Think what's changed between when the 360 and PS3 came out, and today.




I still don't have an Iphone and I'll try to avoid having one for as long as possible as I don't really like Apple anything...


----------



## barleyguy

jeremyr said:


> Who said gaming with a phone? Just wirelessly connect your phone to the TV, and pick up a controller and play. In fact by 7 years from now, I expect the 4th or 5th version of this CPU to just be in the TV.
> 
> Lots can and will change in 7 years. 7 years ago, we didn't have iPhone. Think what's changed between when the 360 and PS3 came out, and today.


 
  
 I actually watched the NVidia K1 presentation live on Twitch, and have been following it for a few months.  I also think that competitors will step up to the plate and tablets (and phones up to thermal limits) will have console class graphics capabilities.
  
 I still don't think that will significantly degrade the console market this generation though.  The reason is economic, not technical.  As an example, GTA 5 did about a billion dollars in sales, at $60.00 a copy.  Let's suppose Rockstar games ported it to a tablet, and posted it on Google Play for $60 a copy...
  
 The site would fill with one star reviews, with people stating "$60 is too much for tablet game, you evil bastards."  or somesuch.  And there's no market incentive to sell it much cheaper, because they sell boatloads of them on consoles at the current pricepoint.
  
 Also, the way that Sony and Microsoft make their money is by taking a royalty of each game sold, in exchange for promoting the platform, and also quality control (quality control was the original excuse, though it could be argued that need doesn't get met in some cases).  Also, one of the benefits consoles provide is a standardized hardware platform that developers can optimize for.  (The Apple ecosystem provides to a certain extent as well though.)
  
 But outside all the technical reasons, the business model doesn't YET make sense.  Nobody will pay $50-60 for mobile games.
  
 I think what we'll see is AAA games launching first on consoles, then eventually being ported to mobile, maybe a year or so behind. (EDIT: Maybe less than a year.  The average for DVD releases of movies is 105 days.)  The console versions will be the "premium" experience.  The tablet versions will be cheaper, will have slightly worse graphics (because of thermal limits and lack of optimization targets), and won't be as heavily promoted.
  
 Think of the movie theater->DVD->Pay TV->Network TV model.  Movies come out in theaters first, then on disk (and pay per view), then on Pay TV and Netflix, then on free TV.  The movie makers get to monetize things multiple times.  And though movie theaters are way less popular than they were even 10 years ago, they've still managed to survive.  I think consoles will be the same way.  There will be at least one more generation, and the consoles will become the "premium" platform out of many different options.
  
 $.02. (My two cents)


----------



## thatBeatsguy

barleyguy said:


> I actually watched the NVidia K1 presentation live on Twitch, and have been following it for a few months.  I also think that competitors will step up to the plate and tablets (and phones up to thermal limits) will have console class graphics capabilities.
> 
> I still don't think that will significantly degrade the console market this generation though.  The reason is economic, not technical.  As an example, GTA 5 did about a billion dollars in sales, at $60.00 a copy.  Let's suppose Rockstar games ported it to a tablet, and posted it on Google Play for $60 a copy...
> 
> ...


 
 You make a great point, and I am a loss for words. Bravo!


----------



## daleb

conquerator2 said:


> I still don't have an Iphone and I'll try to avoid having one for as long as possible as I don't really like Apple anything...


 

 Well of course, that is why you get an android. So much more useful.


----------



## brunk

I think consoles will eventually be a thing of the past. The time will come where you can just 'rent' the processing power from the cloud, and stream directly to your TV. Corporations will love it because it has the potential to be considered as a 'utility bill' to many, copyrights will be bullet-proof. People will love it because gone is the physical, aging media and hardware, if you want to upgrade then you just pay a fee and the effect is instant.
  
 IMO


----------



## conquerator2

daleb said:


> Well of course, that is why you get an android. So much more useful.




Well not like there is much choice. Windows mobile is poor.


----------



## JeremyR

daleb said:


> Well of course, that is why you get an android. So much more useful.


 
  
 And thank Apple for it. When Apple came out with a sheet of glass phone with no buttons, everyone thought they were crazy (including me). Now it's what we think a phone should be.
  
 What we think living room gaming should be next Gen, I think will change.


----------



## JeremyR

barleyguy said:


> I actually watched the NVidia K1 presentation live on Twitch, and have been following it for a few months.  I also think that competitors will step up to the plate and tablets (and phones up to thermal limits) will have console class graphics capabilities.
> 
> I still don't think that will significantly degrade the console market this generation though.  The reason is economic, not technical.  As an example, GTA 5 did about a billion dollars in sales, at $60.00 a copy.  Let's suppose Rockstar games ported it to a tablet, and posted it on Google Play for $60 a copy...
> 
> ...


 
  
 You're thinking of gaming in 7 years within today ecosystem.
  
 how about this: What if Rockstar sold you a license to play GTA8, and with that license, you could play it on anything? Your phone, your PC, your TV. Would you buy it? I would.
  
 No one is going to try and sell a mobile phone game as we know them for $60. However the thought of selling mobile phone games at all when the PS3 came out was laughable. 
  
 Nvidia will change the market. Sony Now, and service like it, will change the market. Valve will change the market.
  
 It's just speculation, but I think the market that the PS5 and XBox Two enters, will be a very different place then it is today.


----------



## kyuuketsuki

conquerator2 said:


> Well not like there is much choice. Windows mobile is poor.


 
  
 I disagree. I actually like how Windows Phones function. Their ecosystem is terrible though. They have the same problem as BlackBerry has and WebOS had... Getting developer support. Honestly, if Windows got better developer support I'd have jumped ship from Android, because I really liked the feel of the Nokia 1020. And the live tiles actually work a bit better at times than the android app widgets. But saying it is poor is not correct, the actual OS is great, apps and app support is not. 
  


jeremyr said:


> And thank Apple for it. When Apple came out with a sheet of glass phone with no buttons, everyone thought they were crazy (including me). Now it's what we think a phone should be.
> 
> What we think living room gaming should be next Gen, I think will change.


 
  
 Technically Windows did it first, and other manufacturers as well. Apple took the idea and made it highly marketable and pretty. Android followed suit in design ideas and built around that making it unique. 
  
 But I agree this could start a trend. Good ideas usually spiral off. And as much as I hate to admit it, Apple took the idea of a touch interface mobile OS, prettied it up, and made it more usable for the consumer was a brilliant move that did in fact change the mobile phone industry. Making capacitive touch screens standard was just practically genius because people were using resistive with their fingers anyway most of the time (despite them not being first, but when are they ever? They are more akin to trendsetters than innovators).


----------



## conquerator2

kyuuketsuki said:


> I disagree. I actually like how Windows Phones function. Their ecosystem is terrible though. They have the same problem as BlackBerry has and WebOS had... Getting developer support. Honestly, if Windows got better developer support I'd have jumped ship from Android, because I really liked the feel of the Nokia 1020. And the live tiles actually work a bit better at times than the android app widgets. But saying it is poor is not correct, the actual OS is great, apps and app support is not.
> 
> 
> Technically Windows did it first, and other manufacturers as well. Apple took the idea and made it highly marketable and pretty. Android followed suit in design ideas and built around that making it unique.
> ...




I don't really fancy the interface but you're right, it is functional.
But I did mean poor as in poor support for apps.


----------



## JeremyR

kyuuketsuki said:


> (despite them not being first, but when are they ever? They are more akin to trendsetters than innovators).


 
  
 Well, this is not a thread about Apple (and NeXT), so I won't go to much into it, but outside of Xerox PARC, they have innovated more than any other tech company in the world.
  
 Fun fact, the way we are communicating (HTML), is a spin off of the NeXT OS (what is now OS X) markup language in its text editor. When Tim Berners-Lee invented the WWW at CERN, he did it on a NeXT machine, and just borrowed the markup language it already had.


----------



## barleyguy

Quote:


jeremyr said:


> how about this: What if Rockstar sold you a license to play GTA8, and with that license, you could play it on anything? Your phone, your PC, your TV. Would you buy it? I would.


 
   
 Maybe, but I'm not sure they have any financial incentive to do that.  They would probably rather sell it to you once on console, then sell it to you again on your phone a few months later.  I could see the equivalent of the "BluRay/DVD/Digital Copy" packs though, where you buy the console disk in a box and it comes with a download code for the Android version.
  
 Quote:


jeremyr said:


> Nvidia will change the market. Sony Now, and service like it, will change the market. Valve will change the market.


 
  
 The Tegra K1 may or may not be successful.  It depends whether they get design wins with device manufacturers.  It doesn't contain an LTE modem, so it's crippled from a phone market perspective.  NVidia will build a reference tablet (and a Shield) with it, and a couple of other manufacturers may jump on board.  I think the way it (and its sequels) will change the market is by raising the bar on what people expect from mobile graphics, but only a certain subset of the market even cares about graphics on their mobile games.
  
 Sony has a vested interest in getting game royalties from third parties, and over half their sales are still physical.  30% of games are traded back in and sold used, so that part of the market isn't going away anytime soon.  That is why they were so public about supporting used games.
  
 The SteamBox will be another choice for consoles, but non-tech users won't understand what it is or why they want it, and it probably won't be available in the glass case at WalMart.  Plus it has online DRM, which is considered an anti-feature by many people.  Valve gets away with it way more than Microsoft was able to, because Steam has lots of loyal users, and they've built that loyalty through good customer service.  But I'll be surprised if it even gets 10% market share if you count it as a console.  Steam boxes might be outsold by the Wii U this generation.
  
 7 years is a long time in tech, so there will be things that change.  But also consider that there are less than a dozen AAA game publishers.  So I tend to see the video game market a lot like Hollywood.  They'll do what's in their financial best interest, and they may even adopt common business models driven from the top (Sony and Microsoft).  If there is a disruptive force on that market, I haven't seen it yet.


----------



## SammyJr

I got both on launch. Have played a total of like 3 hours since I got them. Really disappointing. I'm gonna try to sell my xbox; I just don't have time to play these as much as I was hoping to, and games aren't as fun for me anymore. Only when I absolutely have nothing to do for the next 8 hours will I play a game lol.


----------



## DADDYDC650

sammyjr said:


> I got both on launch. Have played a total of like 3 hours since I got them. Really disappointing. I'm gonna try to sell my xbox; I just don't have time to play these as much as I was hoping to, and games aren't as fun for me anymore. Only when I absolutely have nothing to do for the next 8 hours will I play a game lol.


 
 I feel the same way but since I have money to burn, I'll keep the Xbox One which is my least played console. Hopefully the exclusives start rolling in soon.


----------



## JeremyR

daddydc650 said:


> I feel the same way but since I have money to burn, I'll keep the Xbox One which is my least played console. Hopefully the exclusives start rolling in soon.


 
  
 Yea, for a PC gamer the One is the least interesting proposition for me. In your case you have both consoles, so I expect the PS4 versions of cross platform games to be slightly better on the PS4. This means unless you have friends in XBox Live you want to play with, all cross platform games are going to be purchased for the Sony console.
  
 This leaves the One for exclusives, however many of the exclusives on Microsoft's console, are going to be released on the PC as well. Titanfall being the biggest one.


----------



## ASillyUsername

jeremyr said:


> Not really. To build an equivalent PC you will end up spending around the same amount.
> 
> That means it's right on par with current generation hardware. In some cases they are ahead. Where can you buy DDR5 ram for a PC? Where can you get a motion sensor on a PC as high quality as the ONE?


 
  
  

 Not really. To build an equivalent PC you will end up spending more... In regards to the Wii U. It's 300 dollars and comes with a tablet I would trust in the hands of a 3 year old.
  
 When it comes to RAM, there are a plethora of PC's that are better.
  
 As far as a motion sensor goes... well... http://www.virtuix.com/


----------



## ASillyUsername

change is good said:


> LOL
> 
> Maybe because they're a generation behind?!?


 
 That's odd because I'm pretty sure the Wii U came out a year before the xbox one and ps4 so I'm questioning not only your use of the word 'generation' but also it's application to benefit your argument...


----------



## JeremyR

asillyusername said:


> Not really. To build an equivalent PC you will end up spending more... In regards to the Wii U. It's 300 dollars and comes with a tablet I would trust in the hands of a 3 year old.
> 
> When it comes to RAM, there are a plethora of PC's that are better.
> 
> As far as a motion sensor goes... well... http://www.virtuix.com/


 
  
 Who cares about the Wii U? This is a hardcore gamer's thread .
  
 As for the ram, I should have been more clear. The GDDR5 ram in the PS4 is also accessed by the CPU. I know of no PC with a CPU that has access to that fast of ram.
  
 As for the Omni, that's pre-order, so thanks for proving my point


----------



## Accoun

jeremyr said:


> Who cares about the Wii U? This is a hardcore gamer's thread .


 
  
 Yup. No one here cares about puny casual games like Bayonetta 2. Only Battlefield 4 in its 900p glory and Call Of Duty Ghosts.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## JeremyR

accoun said:


> Yup. No one here cares about puny casual games like Bayonetta 2. Only Battlefield 4 in its 900p glory and Call Of Duty Ghosts.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


 
 lol.
  
 Well, of someone came up to me and said "I don't like cartoon style games, and I want a console to play FPS's, Spots games, and racing sims", would you even consider the Wii U as a recommendation?
  
 I sure wouldn't.


----------



## Accoun

jeremyr said:


> Well, of someone came up to me and said "I don't like cartoon style games, and I want a console to play FPS's, Spots games, and racing sims", would you even consider the Wii U as a recommendation?
> 
> I sure wouldn't.


 
  
 Except sports games, I'd rather recomend him a PC then, anyway.


----------



## barleyguy

jeremyr said:


> lol.
> 
> Well, of someone came up to me and said "I don't like cartoon style games, and I want a console to play FPS's, Spots games, and racing sims", would you even consider the Wii U as a recommendation?
> 
> I sure wouldn't.




The Wii U does have the best version of Need for Speed Most Wanted and Madden 13. And Splinter Cell. And a great version of Assassin's Creed 4. But EA has basically dropped support for it. So it won't get new revisions of any of EA games unless they change their mind.

I think the Wii was everybody's second console. People had either Wii 60 or Wii-ess-three. The Wii U may end up in the same niche, though it needs a lot more good games and a price drop. Most people don't want to pay $299 for a second console.

It is a great console though. It is better technically than the 360 or PS3. It supports larger textures and does 1080p at 60 hz for every game so far, which the last gen seemed to have major issues with. Also, off TV Play is way cool.

But it's obviously not on par with the PS4 or XBox One. Like I said in my first post, I plan to eventually have a PS4 and also a Vita for off TV play.


----------



## SammyJr

daddydc650 said:


> I feel the same way but since I have money to burn, I'll keep the Xbox One which is my least played console. Hopefully the exclusives start rolling in soon.


 
 I debated for a while just keeping both, but ultimately went with selling the X1 as it's just going to make me lose more money with games (only ones im interested in are halo and titanfall), but also now that I'm in school I have no time to be making money other ways, so I need all the money I can get now lol. I regret getting either console. I don't have time to play any games at all now, probably not until summer.


----------



## Change is Good

asillyusername said:


> That's odd because I'm pretty sure the Wii U came out a year before the xbox one and ps4 so I'm questioning not only your use of the word 'generation' but also it's application to benefit your argument...




Yes, the Wii U came out a year before the Xbox one and ps4... 6 years after the 360 and PS3. 

But ask yourself this: Does the Wii U perform like the new gen consoles? Or old gen?

Deal with it, bud. Both with the fact of how I (and many other people) use the word 'generation' when dealing with electronics... and that Nintendo is basically behind by a "generation" when compared to other consoles.

*game over*


----------



## DADDYDC650

sammyjr said:


> I debated for a while just keeping both, but ultimately went with selling the X1 as it's just going to make me lose more money with games (only ones im interested in are halo and titanfall), but also now that I'm in school I have no time to be making money other ways, so I need all the money I can get now lol. I regret getting either console. I don't have time to play any games at all now, probably not until summer.


 
 I'd sell my Xbox One but I don't want to  take a decent loss on it. I could maybe sell it for about $450 but that's an $80 loss since I paid about $30 in taxes. I might as well keep it since I know I'm going to want Halo and I'm sure some other games will come along that I'll want. I also have my PC to game on which is my favorite platform. Too many games and too little time.


----------



## daleb

Do you ever have those times where you wish you were a mod because of how horrible a thread has become?
  
 This is one of those times.


----------



## JeremyR

daleb said:


> Do you ever have those times where you wish you were a mod because of how horrible a thread has become?
> 
> This is one of those times.


 
  
 Why? Still talking about the Xbox One, and the PS4. We just threw in some Wii U and PC gaming into the mix.


----------



## thatBeatsguy

jeremyr said:


> Why? Still talking about the Xbox One, and the PS4. We just threw in some Wii U and PC gaming into the mix.


 
 Nothing wrong with that, right?


----------



## ASillyUsername

jeremyr said:


> Who cares about the Wii U? This is a hardcore gamer's thread .
> 
> As for the ram, I should have been more clear. The GDDR5 ram in the PS4 is also accessed by the CPU. I know of no PC with a CPU that has access to that fast of ram.
> 
> As for the Omni, that's pre-order, so thanks for proving my point


 
  
 Oh, my sincere apologies. I didn't realize that three months on pre-order was anything someone who waited a year for the XboxOne and PS4 would be impatient over.
 As for hardcore games, there a plenty of hardcore games that are Nintendo Exclusive so I don't even know why you are bringing that up. Unless you're waiting for them to sell those to Sony like they did with the FF series?  But then again, with three months being so far away I doubt that's even a thought in your mind.
  
 The PS4 does in fact run faster than the WiiU CPU by about 0.4 GHz but this sort of difference is expected in $100.00.
  
 I think it is incorrect to say the WiiU is incapable of hardcore gaming on par with XboxOne and PS4.


----------



## ASillyUsername

change is good said:


> Yes, the Wii U came out a year before the Xbox one and ps4... 6 years after the 360 and PS3.
> 
> But ask yourself this: Does the Wii U perform like the new gen consoles? Or old gen?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I don't know if you ever read the specs on the Wii U, but your ignorance is certainly showing. You are really undermining its performance without any clear evidence. Part of the problem though is that Nintendo has not released any information on its hardware capabilities so I'm not really blaming you for that either.
 Wii U offers exclusives found on no other gaming system.
 Wii U has innovative design with complete backwards compatibility to the Wii.
 Wii U is $100.00 cheaper than a PS4 and $200 cheaper than an XboxOne.
 Wii U is more compact than the PS4 and XboxOne.
 The Wii U comes with the option (not all games) to be played off screen and on the tablet alone.
 When I compare my Wii U to the older Xbox360 and PS3 the first thing I notice is: The WiiU is actually fun to play, so why would I bother wasting my money on an XboxOne or PS4?
 Obviously these are not the only facts about the WiiU but it should be more than enough to uphold the WiiU as a current-gen console and IMO a better buy than the XboxOne or PS4.


----------



## JeremyR

asillyusername said:


> I think it is incorrect to say the WiiU is incapable of hardcore gaming on par with XboxOne and PS4.


 
  
 My statement was that the PS4 and 360 do qualify as next gen. I don't care how long you have to wait for something. The fact that the features of these consoles do not exist in the market today, means they qualify under that designation.
  
 As for what I quoted from you above, there is nothing from a technical perspective that keeps the Wii U from being capable of being a hardcore gaming system. However outside of one or two releases of games, it's just not. It's a Nintendo system that will have a tom of crapware, a few 3rd party titles worth owning, and all the Nintendo IP's that people buy the console for. It will follow in the Wii''s footsteps.
  
 Oh, and just to clear up something you said... The Wii U has 2 Gig of GDDR3 vs 8 Gig GDDR5. It's GPU performance is 0.352 TFLOP's vs 1.84 TFLOP's of the PS4. The Wii U is not remotely as powerful as the PS4.


----------



## conquerator2

asillyusername said:


> Wii U's GPU has 16 TMU at 550MHz which is a lot better than the Xbox360's GPU by about a 50% improvement.
> Wii U's CPU is only a slight 20% weaker than the XboxOne.
> Wii U offers exclusives found on no other gaming system.
> Wii U has innovative design with complete backwards compatibility to the Wii.
> ...


 
 It is ultimately significantly weaker than the PS4 [and to a certain extent, XONE]
 The exclusives were also hard to find until recently.
 I am not into Nintendo though and I never was but it would be worth a consideration if I were choosing between the One and the U
 For me though, it's a PS4.
  
 You enjoy whatever floats your boat :]


----------



## ASillyUsername

jeremyr said:


> My statement was that the PS4 and 360 do qualify as next gen. I don't care how long you have to wait for something. The fact that the features of these consoles do not exist in the market today, means they qualify under that designation.
> 
> As for what I quoted from you above, there is nothing from a technical perspective that keeps the Wii U from being capable of being a hardcore gaming system. However outside of one or two releases of games, it's just not. It's a Nintendo system that will have a tom of crapware, a few 3rd party titles worth owning, and all the Nintendo IP's that people buy the console for. It will follow in the Wii''s footsteps.
> 
> Oh, and just to clear up something you said... The Wii U has 2 Gig of GDDR3 vs 8 Gig GDDR5. It's GPU performance is 0.352 TFLOP's vs 1.84 TFLOP's of the PS4. The Wii U is not remotely as powerful as the PS4.


 
  
 You said 360 but I know you meant One.
  
 Your argument suggests that the features of the XboxOne and PS4 are 'unique' and not in the market today, quite frankly I'd have to argue the opposite. I'm not impressed by the PS4 or the XboxOne, the PS4 just looks like another PC to me and the XboxOne isn't to my taste. This isn't to say the systems are worse or better, IMO the three of them diverged in their console development and there really isn't a "better" than the other console, they're all different from each other.
  
 *I realized my information on the Wii U specs were incorrect and opted to remove it from my previous post. It's hard to find correct specs since nothing has been released from Nintendo and anything online comes with a certain amount of "trust" in the spec information.


----------



## ASillyUsername

conquerator2 said:


> It is ultimately significantly weaker than the PS4 [and to a certain extent, XONE]
> The exclusives were also hard to find until recently.
> I am not into Nintendo though and I never was but it would be worth a consideration if I were choosing between the One and the U
> For me though, it's a PS4.
> ...


 

 Buoyancy... Buoyancy floats my boat. 
 I agree in the opposite fashion, I have never really been interested in Sony, but as a second console I'd probably choose the PS4 over the One.
 For me though, it's a Wii U.


----------



## conquerator2

asillyusername said:


> Buoyancy... Buoyancy floats my boat.
> I agree in the opposite fashion, I have never really been interested in Sony, but as a second console I'd probably choose the PS4 over the One.
> For me though, it's a Wii U.


 
 Sure. Games are about enjoyment, so keep enjoying your Wii U  i'll keep enjoying my PS3/4


----------



## JeremyR

asillyusername said:


> Your argument suggests that the features of the XboxOne and PS4 are 'unique' and not in the market today, quite frankly I'd have to argue the opposite.


 
  
 The quality of the Kinect on the the One is unique, and the speed of the ram to the CPU in the PS4 is unique. However that's not really want I am saying. I am saying outside of those things, the hardware in these devices are at the same price point as the best hardware money can buy.
  
 That makes them a next gen console. Why do you take issue with them being called as such?


----------



## Change is Good

asillyusername said:


> I don't know if you ever read the specs on the Wii U, but your ignorance is certainly showing. You are really undermining its performance without any clear evidence. Part of the problem though is that Nintendo has not released any information on its hardware capabilities so I'm not really blaming you for that either.
> Wii U offers exclusives found on no other gaming system.
> Wii U has innovative design with complete backwards compatibility to the Wii.
> Wii U is $100.00 cheaper than a PS4 and $200 cheaper than an XboxOne.
> ...




I am never one to dive into specs, my friend, so bash me all you want. I just play the damn game, and give my impressions based on that. 

What I meant was, graphically, which gen does your precious Wii U compare to? But by all means, just enjoy your Wii U... and leave it at that.

As someone else said, I'll enjoy my PS4. I'm not the hardcore gamer I used to be, hence why I gave my nephew my PS3. He would get much more out of that baby then I will, plus he can take advantage of all the PS plus freebies still.

I just simply don't have the time anymore. And trying to make a debate over something so silly... well... forget it.

The Wii U is a wonderful system for what it uniquely offers. There...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Comparatively speaking, the Wii U's specs are barely any better than the 360/PS3, so while it may be new, it performs like last gen's consoles and is simply outclassed in every way, other than it's unique features.

It's running archaic architecture that even Microsoft and Sony have abandoned with the new gen.

So calling the Wii U last gen is completely understandable.

Hell, I heard it had problems running certain games as well as the PS3/360. COME ON.


----------



## vlenbo

mad lust envy said:


> Comparatively speaking, the Wii U's specs are barely any better than the 360/PS3, so while it may be new, it performs like last gen's consoles and is simply outclassed in every way, other than it's unique features.
> 
> It's running archaic architecture that even Microsoft and Sony have abandoned with the new gen.
> 
> ...


 
 It's actually 1.5x better than the 360/PS3, at least, on the GPU side...
  
 too bad the cpu was not one of the main focuses on the wii U.
  
 It's nowhere near the PS4 or Xbox one
  
 They were the earlybirds in announcing a new console, but dang, the specs can't compete with today's technology.
  
 A radeon 4670 vs the newest 7870?
  
 Nope! Not even possible now.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I mean in terms of games that all 3 'last gen' systems have. The Wii U has struggled to keep up with the PS3 and 360's version of games. Where's the improved specs here?

If it's *much* better.... it's clearly not showcasing it.

I'd put up the older Killzone 2, Heavy Rain, and Uncharted 3 next to any Wii U game... graphically, it won't even touch them.


----------



## vlenbo

mad lust envy said:


> I mean in terms of games that all 3 'last gen' systems have. The Wii U has struggled to keep up with the PS3 and 360's version of games. Where's the improved specs here?
> 
> If it's *much* better.... it's clearly not showcasing it.
> 
> I'd put up the older Killzone 2 and Uncharted 3 next to any Wii U game... graphically, it won't even touch them.


 
 Ohhh, got it, my mistake.
  
  
 Edited mine as well, it's not much better, just a decent amount.
  
 Now for that, even I am boggled by. My only suspicion is the coding, and that is usually the case with the PC gamers.
  
 Just look at crysis 1, the dang coding has made it hard for our pcs to even run the game itself. That is not the case anymore, but it used to be when it was first released.
  
 I'm not trying to bash anyone or the consoles, but I will have to say it is at least a bit better than the consoles that were on the market 2 years ago.
  
 It's not worth the price when people could have waited for the ps4 and xbox one.
  
  
  
 Most likely, the coding is the culprit. Though I can't say that the cpu should be ignored, as it could be the bottleneck for the Wii U. Even the developers complained that the CPU was not up to their expectations, and thus, making them release half-assed multiplats for the wii U.
  
  
 The games that come out also play a factor, and that is where the 3 companies will make sales.
  
 You aren't wrong though, I'm just trying to say that the wii U shouldn't be worse than the two consoles themselves. It should be better, but seeing the gpu they used, won't be THAT much better if their cpu is practically unusable to developers.
  
 The Wii U isn't a terrible console. Unfortunately, it is one that won't meet a gamer's expectations when it comes to gameplay, as Madlust stated.
  
 If the Wii U didn't get recognition in the poll, go blame nintendo for skimping on the cpu. Go get the developers for not optimizing the games to the cpu's sluggishness.
  
 I, on the other hand, will wait untill the PS4 is fixed, drops in prices, and has awesome games like KH3.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, not saying the Wii U is terrible. Nintendo has been it's own thing basically since the first Wii. It's not worse, just...different. If I were to own multiple consoles, I'd definitely have the Wii U, since it's clearly different from the others, and more likely to have exclusives that I'd play. The PS4/XB1 are essentially the same damn thing.

I'm still mad that I won't get to play Bayonetta 2.


----------



## rc10mike

I love Nintendo but I feel they are falling behind. I would love to see Nintendo produce something to DIRECTLY compete with the PS4 and XB One.


----------



## conquerator2

This is a very interesting article - http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-secret-developers-wii-u-the-inside-story
  
 When your three key features are low footprint, silent operation and low power consumption, it can't end any other way.
 Admittedly, the GPU is good, but if the Espresso microprocessor is what it is [a 3-core clocked at 1.3ghz] then it must be very difficult to utilize.
 The GPU might be as much as 2x powerful as the PS3/360s but if the processor bogs it down, what'd do you do?


----------



## thatBeatsguy

rc10mike said:


> I love Nintendo but I feel they are falling behind. I would love to see Nintendo produce something to DIRECTLY compete with the PS4 and XB One.


 
 It seems that their innovations are the only thing that is worthy of competing with the PS4 and XBOne. But then again, they really are falling behind in terms of pretty much eveyrthing else. They really need to change it up and give us something really good. It seems that technology really is conforming to the "tick-tock" rhythm of technology: Not so good during "tick," then takes a big leap on "tock."


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I know nintendo focuses on the experience rather than the visuals and power, but surely that sort of mentality isn't working for them in the long run. It comes at the cost of losing 3rd party support. Systems can't thrive on 1st party titles alone.

I believe that Nintendo now sees this, and their next effort will be a lot more ambitious in both experience as well as visual fidelity. Now, how long we have to wait for Nintendo to step up their game is up in the air. They simply can't pull a Sega by releasing new hardware so soon after the last one, but they're gonna have to start planning for one to release a lot sooner than the time span between the Wii and Wii U.

I would love to play Mario/Metroid/Zelda/Pokemon/etc on next gen, but I'm not going to buy a Wii U just for that alone. 3rd party support is absolutely essential.

If I were Nintendo, I'd do something crazy... like try merging with Sega. BOOM. Imagine Sonic and Mario as TRUE partners. A full fledged Mario and Sonic franchise. A triple A title with both worlds. Not just some cute sports game.


That'd turn some heads.

That would take away Sonic and all of Sega's franchises away from Sony and Microsoft. Things like this would put Nintendo back in the race.

Of course, they do incredibly well in the portable scene, but the portable scene is completely different from the console scene.


----------



## gamefreak054

mad lust envy said:


> I know nintendo focuses on the experience rather than the visuals and power, but surely that sort of mentality isn't working for them in the long run. It comes at the cost of losing 3rd party support. Systems can't thrive on 1st party titles alone.
> 
> I believe that Nintendo now sees this, and their next effort will be a lot more ambitious in both experience as well as visual fidelity. Now, how long we have to wait for Nintendo to step up their game is up in the air. They simply can't pull a Sega by releasing new hardware so soon after the last one, but they're gonna have to start planning for one to release a lot sooner than the time span between the Wii and Wii U.
> 
> ...


 
 I agree with most of what you just said. Especially with nintendo now seeing that the hardware is important. However I feel that the wii is incredibly underrated. Nobody knows about the slew of amazing sleeper 3rd party titles that hit the console. Madworld, No More Heroes 1&2, Xenoblade Chronicles, Last story, Pandoras Tower, Monster Hunter Tri, okami port,Tales of Symphonia sequel, and many more. I would say that the 3rd party support is lacking, but nearly not as non existent as people think it is. It is definitely hidden behind the loads of crap mini games developers were trying to exploit families into buying.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Almost if not all of those were Wii titles, not Wii U.

Wii U's 3rd party support is a fraction of what it was for the Wii.

The Wii U won't even come close, and is severely lagging behind the Wii's numbers.


----------



## gamefreak054

mad lust envy said:


> Almost if not all of those were Wii titles, not Wii U.
> 
> Wii U's 3rd party support is a fraction of what it was for the Wii.
> 
> The Wii U won't even come close, and is severely lagging behind the Wii's numbers.


 
 Yes I was mainly just trying to prove a point. I was relating the past to what could potentially happen in the future. The wii was vastly criticized for its 3rd party support yet so many people do not know how good it actually was, and it was incredibly slow when it first started. I think the Wii U still has a lot of potential. However it is not going to get the big budget 3rd party titles, but it will probably receive a bunch of games that will go under the radar again. Hell even one of the Wii Us best games is a 3rd party game. Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate is an amazing game, however it is not easily accessible to the public. On top of that it is supposed to receive a Xenoblade Chronicle sequel esque type thing (I forgot what was happening with that game).
  
 I also agree that it is not selling well, but it may pick up in the future. The 3ds had a horrid year or two, but now its one of the best handhelds of all time.


----------



## JeremyR

If I ran Nintendo, I would have done the same thing. Here is a list of the top selling Wii games:
  
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Wii_video_games
  
  
 You have to get to #16 before you get to a non Nintendo title, and only 2 of the top 25 are not Nintendo games. Nintendo lives or dies on Nintendo IP's. So really their console is just a platform to play their games. Why make a powerhouse system, when it's not required to make any of the Nintendo IP's? You would just be wasting money on every console you sold.
  
  
 This is why they are not part of this debate. I said it before and I will say it again. If you want to play Nintendo games, you just go buy a Wii U and play them. No debate. If you don't want to play Nintendo games, the PS4 and Xbox One should be the only consoles you consider.
  
 That being said, unless you really want to play a Sony or Microsoft exclusive, I would not buy either.


----------



## vlenbo

mad lust envy said:


> Oh, not saying the Wii U is terrible. Nintendo has been it's own thing basically since the first Wii. It's not worse, just...different. If I were to own multiple consoles, I'd definitely have the Wii U, since it's clearly different from the others, and more likely to have exclusives that I'd play. The PS4/XB1 are essentially the same damn thing.
> 
> I'm still mad that I won't get to play Bayonetta 2.




I completely agree. No worries, btw. I meant for people in general, that the wii U isnt terrible. If i didnt include that, some fanboys would think you or i are nintendo bashers. Though I do admit that i thought you didn't like the wii U. Thanks for clarifying. 

I wish the ps4 and one focused on innovations like nintendo. Luckily, the ps4 does have a similar feature as the wii u's. Too bad we pay an additional $220 for remoteplay. (Psvita)
The xbox was innovative though, with their kinect, too bad it wasn't good for its first version. Maybe that changed with the latest improvements?

Maybe when all the planets align, you will be able to play bayonetta 2!


----------



## JeremyR

vlenbo said:


> I wish the ps4 and one focused on innovations like nintendo.


 
  
 You don't think Kinect is an innovation


----------



## vlenbo

jeremyr said:


> You don't think Kinect is an innovation


 
 uhh...
  
 It's not that, it's just...
  
 What I meant to say is...
  
 ....Well, what about the ps move?
  
 Just joking, lol.
  
 I don't know, it was a great innovation, but executed poorly during the first version of the kinect. That's why I didn't bring it up, but if we have to state the ideas they put forth, the xbox, imo, was the best innovation out of the trio.
  
 I never heard anyone actually stating that the newest kinect is a lot better with latency and performance. If it is, I retract my statement!

 I'll fix it.


----------



## thatBeatsguy

jeremyr said:


> You don't think Kinect is an innovation


 
 I do, I do, and it's pretty good, yeah.
  
      I think the point is that they don't make it that prominent unlike the Wii U, where the very core of the console is the innovation. But then again, the Kinect was pretty well-advertised. I guess the manufacturers are still trying to get the balance between innvoation and raw technical power. And so far, I think only the XB1's gotten close, but still not yet.


----------



## vlenbo

thatbeatsguy said:


> I do, I do, and it's pretty good, yeah.
> 
> I think the point is that they don't make it that prominent unlike the Wii U, where the very core of the console is the innovation. But then again, the Kinect was pretty well-advertised. I guess the manufacturers are still trying to get the balance between innvoation and raw technical power. And so far, I think only the XB1's gotten close, but still not yet.


 
 I wanted to state that too, but I wanted to make sure of it.
  
 Listen to that beats guy, or else! (jk)
  
 ^ +1


----------



## JeremyR

thatbeatsguy said:


> I do, I do, and it's pretty good, yeah.
> 
> I think the point is that they don't make it that prominent unlike the Wii U, where the very core of the console is the innovation. But then again, the Kinect was pretty well-advertised. I guess the manufacturers are still trying to get the balance between innvoation and raw technical power. And so far, I think only the XB1's gotten close, but still not yet.


 
 Yea.
  
 Not sure I buy into the Kinect as a gaming controller. But that I guess is what innovation is all about. Pretty much anything going forward that's innovative, is going to look like a stupid idea at first.


----------



## thatBeatsguy

jeremyr said:


> Yea.
> 
> Not sure I buy into the Kinect as a gaming controller. But that I guess is what innovation is all about. Pretty much anything going forward that's innovative, is going to look like a stupid idea at first.


 
      Exactly. the Wii looked pretty crazy at first (I didn't think it was, though), but caught on fairly quickly. The Kinect did, too -- and it became pretty much the closest competitor to the Wii's motion control. But now, with the XB1 and the Kinect's supposed always-on thing...it creeps me out. I just hope owning an XB1 doesn't make your home a litttle recreation of 1984.
  
      I'm just going to leave my next statement on the Kinect in a spoiler, because I might get banned for it. Just do me a favor and leave me a sanity check, will you?
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



     Speaking of the Kinect 2 being the possible source to make your own home the venue for a tiny 1984, I'm also worried that the real plot to create an actual, world-wide 1984 could actually use the new Kinect to work as surveillance for each and every family who owns one. What plot am I talking about? PRISM (not Katy Perry's album), that's what I'm talking about.  
      There was a lot of controversy regarding those leaks by Snowden last year, as you may all know, but as I recall someone stated, it's not going to end yet. There's going to be more documents, year after year, showing just how far the government is willing to take their surevillance methods to "prevent a future 9/11," despite the fact that they haven't showed (or rather, there isn't) any evidence that their methods are actually working. Their methods involve having some of the largest companies on the internet to work with them and give all sorts of information about them and their users, which obviously invades with their Privacy Policies. 
  
      I might just be talking nonsense, but what Snowden says might actually be legit. "It [PRISM] doesn't make us more safe, it makes us less safe," he said in a recent appearance.


----------



## JeremyR

Your sanity check
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



I don't think you're crazy about the tech, and what the government is willing to do with it to collect information. Today I don't think you need to worry about how they will use the data they collect, but it's scary to know they have it.


----------



## gamefreak054

I personally do not see the kinect as an innovation at all. Playstation first had the idea with the Playstation 2 Eye, but never really capitalized on it. The kinect of course does have better technology, but besides that the Eye and Kinect both have the same basic function. Personally I see an innovation as something newly created, and has never been thought of before. The Wii was an innovation as it pretty much started the motion control wars, and it was a pretty unique controller that nobody really had before.


----------



## IPoopFrootLoops

Neither. I'd get the Wii U


----------



## thatBeatsguy

gamefreak054 said:


> I personally do not see the kinect as an innovation at all. *Sony first had the idea with the Playstation 2 Eye, but never really capitalized on it*. The kinect of course does have better technology, but besides that the Eye and Kinect both have the same basic function. Personally I see an innovation as something newly created, and has never been thought of before. *The Wii was an innovation as it pretty much started the motion control wars, and it was a pretty unique controller that nobody really had before. *


 
      Aw damn, I totally forgot about the PS Eye from the PS2...never got to own the Eye, since I thought it was garbage and a waste of money anyway. But you're right, it wasn't an innovation since the PS2 already got to it first...but the Kinect was better in performance and thus got itself more support. The Wii's motion control innovation is now one of the many legacies of gaming to me, and the impact that it left on gaming has pretty much given it its own spot in the timeline of gaming.
  


jeremyr said:


> Your sanity check
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'll wait and see if Razer can get the modular PC to become a real thing. That's what my money is waiting for.


----------



## vlenbo

thatbeatsguy said:


> Aw damn, I totally forgot about the PS Eye from the PS2...never got to own the Eye, since I thought it was garbage and a waste of money anyway. But you're right, it wasn't an innovation since the PS2 already got to it first...but the Kinect was better in performance and thus got itself more support. The Wii's motion control innovation is now one of the many legacies of gaming to me, and the impact that it left on gaming has pretty much given it its own spot in the timeline of gaming.
> 
> Thanks.


 
 That is why you forgot, lol. I forgot about that as well, I bet not many remember its okay qualities back then. 
  
 But hold on, you never got to demo the eye either? I'll tell you right now, it was the best thing since sliced bread!
  
 I remember using any object to interact with the games it came with. It was only ONE! It was the playstation eye game! YEAH!!!!


----------



## thatBeatsguy

vlenbo said:


> That is why you forgot, lol. I forgot about that as well, I bet not many remember its okay qualities back then.
> 
> *But hold on, you never got to demo the eye either?* I'll tell you right now, it was the best thing since sliced bread!
> 
> I remember using any object to interact with the games it came with. It was only ONE! It was the playstation eye game! YEAH!!!!


 
      I did. I was at a friend's house for a day (celebrating Christmas, I recall), and the party lasted all night long. I tell ya, they're really great hosts. The next morning, my friend fired up the PS2 (they had the really slim version, I owned the big one), and showed us a game with the PS Eye. We were sposed to copy gestures on-screen and stuff. My memory's pretty hazy on that, 'specially since they've moved to 'Murica about three years ago.


----------



## Accoun

Hah, I remember some party (Christmas as well, or some new year perhaps?) where my cousin brought his PS2 with EyeToy, that dancing game and we borrowed a projector. 

Was pretty fun, to say the least.


----------



## vlenbo

thatbeatsguy said:


> I did. I was at a friend's house for a day (celebrating Christmas, I recall), and the party lasted all night long. I tell ya, they're really great hosts. The next morning, my friend fired up the PS2 (they had the really slim version, I owned the big one), and showed us a game with the PS Eye. We were sposed to copy gestures on-screen and stuff. My memory's pretty hazy on that, 'specially since they've moved to 'Murica about three years ago.


 
 Awesome, sounds like you had an awesome Christmas, lucky you! I only had a good time with my family once, playing Mario partay 5 on the nintendo gamecube. 

 I wonder how the reactions came when everyone attempted to interact with the ps eye. I think the game is eyetoy, right?
  


accoun said:


> Hah, I remember some party (Christmas as well, or some new year perhaps?) where my cousin brought his PS2 with EyeToy, that dancing game and we borrowed a projector.
> 
> Was pretty fun, to say the least.


 
 Dang it, you two had the most fun during that christmas day. I'm surprised to hear that they had a dancing one for the eyetoy, though. Was it decent at least?


----------



## Accoun

vlenbo said:


> Was it decent at least?




I guess. Obviously, it wasn't great but playing with other people made it pretty fun. Also it had some kind of mode where you could add all kinds of special effects etc. so there was that, which added to coolness on the party.


----------



## vlenbo

accoun said:


> I guess. Obviously, it wasn't great but playing with other people made it pretty fun. Also it had some kind of mode where you could add all kinds of special effects etc. so there was that, which added to coolness on the party.


 
 Awesome! This is a christmas alright, just like the beats guy, lol. I hope there are more memorable christmas moments everyone can make.


----------



## Accoun

By the way:
  


vlenbo said:


> I think the game is eyetoy, right?


 

 IIRC EyeToy was the name of the camera (PS Eye was the camera for PS3) and  the games were EyeToy Play.


----------



## vlenbo

accoun said:


> By the way:
> 
> 
> IIRC EyeToy was the name of the camera (PS Eye was the camera for PS3) and  the games were EyeToy Play.


 
 Thanks for the correction, I had a feeling that I was missing a word or two. I liked EyeToy Play, but felt really awkward doing all those gestures lol.


----------



## thatBeatsguy

accoun said:


> By the way:
> 
> 
> IIRC *EyeToy was the name of the camera* (PS Eye was the camera for PS3) and  the games were EyeToy Play.


 
 Oh yeah, you're right. I totally forgot about that, lol.


----------



## JeremyR

The Kinect is far more then the EyeToy. If you want to really go back to the first motion controller for a console, it would be the Sega Activator from 1993.
  
 That does not make the Kinect less innovative.


----------



## gamefreak054

jeremyr said:


> The Kinect is far more then the EyeToy. If you want to really go back to the first motion controller for a console, it would be the Sega Activator from 1993.
> 
> That does not make the Kinect less innovative.


 
 Yes it does. The kinect uses the same principles as the eyetoy for motion gaming. It still uses a camera to detect motion. The kinect is an evolution in technology of the eyetoy, not an innovation to motion gaming. For it to be an innovation it would have to be an original idea. The eyetoy may not even be an innovation as I am not sure if the eyetoy is an original idea, but it was the first one to go mainstreamish.
  
 I would never would consider a modern combustion car as a innovation to automobiles as it is just an evolution of what was an original idea in the past. The individual parts of the car might be innovative, but an combustion car in general is just a evolution of the first car ever made.


----------



## JeremyR

gamefreak054 said:


> Yes it does. The kinect uses the same principles as the eyetoy for motion gaming. It still uses a camera to detect motion. The kinect is an evolution in technology of the eyetoy, not an innovation to motion gaming. For it to be an innovation it would have to be an original idea. The eyetoy may not even be an innovation as I am not sure if the eyetoy is an original idea, but it was the first one to go mainstreamish.
> 
> I would never would consider a modern combustion car as a innovation to automobiles as it is just an evolution of what was an original idea in the past. The individual parts of the car might be innovative, but an combustion car in general is just a evolution of the first car ever made.


 
  
 I think your definition of innovation is way to broad. In fact the delta between a modern car and the first one, is far larger then the first one and a horse and buggy, so by your standard the car is not even an innovation.
  
 The Kinect uses IR to track positions, and not a camera. It projects lots of little dots, and calculates the size of them to predict position. It's a completely different way to track motion.
  
 It's the difference between an electric car, and a gas one. Both cars take people places, they just do it completely differently. If you don't think the electric car is an innovation, I think you have an incorrect definition of innovation.


----------



## conquerator2

jeremyr said:


> The Kinect is far more then the EyeToy. If you want to really go back to the first motion controller for a console, it would be the Sega Activator from 1993.
> 
> That does not make the Kinect less innovative.




Nintendo Power Glove!!!


----------



## JeremyR

conquerator2 said:


> Nintendo Power Glove!!!


 
  
 lol, yea. However that was not a full body motion sensor. It was a controller you just wore.


----------



## Zombie_X

Yo,
  
 "I love the Power Glove. It's so bad"... ah The Wizard... memories! I still have a fully functional Power Glove. It's works like crap, heck none of them worked right half the time.


----------



## conquerator2

zombie_x said:


> Yo,
> 
> "I love the Power Glove. It's so bad"... ah The Wizard... memories! I still have a fully functional Power Glove. It's works like crap, heck none of them worked right half the time.




He is the... ;D


----------



## ASillyUsername

jeremyr said:


> The quality of the Kinect on the the One is unique, and the speed of the ram to the CPU in the PS4 is unique. However that's not really want I am saying. I am saying outside of those things, the hardware in these devices are at the same price point as the best hardware money can buy.
> 
> That makes them a next gen console. Why do you take issue with them being called as such?


 

As people previously posted the specs are better than last gen, and they are not on par with the one and ps4, thy are however, good enough for what Nintendo has planned for it. I am not trying to attack any xboxone or ps4 purchasers I am simply trying to involve the Wii U in the discussion. It is worthy of that IMO.


----------



## DADDYDC650

I purchased both consoles at launch and I've come to the conclusion that I either should have waited until there's an actual killer exclusive out for it or not have bought an Xbox One at all. The voice commands are not reliable at all and it's a pain in the @ss to watch TV when you have it connected to the Xbox One. The ports are best on PS4 and most of my buds own a PS4 simply because it's cheaper and has better graphics. The all in one BS is exactly that, BS. If I turn the console on, it will turn on my TV and DTV receiver. Problem is, it will turn them off if they are already on. If I turn that feature off, I'll have to sit through the long boot up process before I can watch TV. Sometimes it will give you a picture of a black screen with a picture of a TV and then an error which is a pain. I also found out last night that the damn console doesn't even support Dolby Digital at all via optical so no surround sound when using my headphones, only stereo. Last of all, whats up with all these 720p games? Even TitanFall is running at 720p and that game is running on a 10 year old source engine. I hope MS gets their crap together but I have my doubts.

I know that I took a risk buying the console at launch but some of these problems are inexcusable. :angry_face:


----------



## conquerator2

Makes sense.
The situation is flipped this time around.
Except MS doesn't have nearly as many first parties to back them up...


----------



## JeremyR

asillyusername said:


> As people previously posted the specs are better than last gen, and they are not on par with the one and ps4, thy are however, good enough for what Nintendo has planned for it. I am not trying to attack any xboxone or ps4 purchasers I am simply trying to involve the Wii U in the discussion. It is worthy of that IMO.


 
  
 The Wii U is a fine console, but it has no place in the PS4 vs One debate. If the type of games on these consoles is what you are after (racing sims, shooters, sports, horror, mature), then the Wii U, no matter how powerful, is just the wrong console.
  
 Just like the Wii before it, it's a platform to play Nintendo games. Nothing wrong with that, and they sell millions to people who want to play those games. But if you like games like Watchdogs, GTA5, BF4, NBA 2K14, Forza, GT6, The Last of Us, and dozens more like them, the Wii is the wrong choice.
  
 I recommend you make a Wii U appreciation thread, if you want to support the pros of the console. Coming into this thread and trying to make an argument that the Wii U should be part of this discussion is not going to get you very far.


----------



## gamefreak054

jeremyr said:


> The Wii U is a fine console, but it has no place in the PS4 vs One debate. If the type of games on these consoles is what you are after (racing sims, shooters, sports, horror, mature), then the Wii U, no matter how powerful, is just the wrong console.
> 
> Just like the Wii before it, it's a platform to play Nintendo games. Nothing wrong with that, and they sell millions to people who want to play those games. But if you like games like Watchdogs, GTA5, BF4, NBA 2K14, Forza, GT6, The Last of Us, and dozens more like them, the Wii is the wrong choice.
> 
> I recommend you make a Wii U appreciation thread, if you want to support the pros of the console. Coming into this thread and trying to make an argument that the Wii U should be part of this discussion is not going to get you very far.


 
 To be fair the poll does have a "neither option" and if you read the poll as someone that had to buy a console the only real decent next option would be the Wii U. Also while the Wii U is quite under powered, the main reason you are going to buy a console is for the games not the hardware.
  
 The Wii U has the most exclusives so far due to the early launch date. Also to act as the PS4 and XBONE are only for the "hardcore" is not 100% correct. Both the XBONE and PS4 will have games that will compete with the Nintendo first party games. To buy a PS4 or XBONE for the simpler games. The PS4 has knack, and I am sure microsoft will create some kind of platformer. Go back to the previous generation as there are just not many exclusives to compare at the moment the PS3 had Little Big Planet series, Puppeteer, Sly Cooper, Modnation Racers, Playstation All Stars Battle Royal, and more. The Wii had its fair share of hardcore games like Monster Hunter Tri, Xenoblade Chronicles, Last Story, No More Heroes, Madworld, Improved Resident Evil Remakes, Dead Space Extraction, Red Steel 2, and more. The Wii U already has Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate, in which is a series that has as strong as a fan base as you can get (stupid idiotic capcom does not support MH as well in the U.S. despite strong sales). The Wii U has a large advantage for games like Call of Duty that nobody really considers in which is the dual screen. Normally I hate COD, but allowing both me and my brother play together without split screen AND could play online ranked matches was pretty awesome.
  
 To basically sum up. In the past you could buy a Wii and get your fair share of hardcore titles, but you could also buy a PS3 to get your fair share of light hearted titles as well. The only thing that the Wii lacked in the past was sports based titles. It had its fair share of shooters albeit not as mainstream as others, and it had a whole slew of RPG and gory action adventure type titles. The Wii U should be brought into every next generation comparison, as it currently has the most exclusives, and will probably develop other great titles along the way. I would be almost shocked if the new generation of consoles did not follow these trends. It is not always an easy and direct comparison, but to almost write off the console in a next gen debate is almost unfair. 
  
 After all this is said, if you do want a big budget mainstream cross platform title you will have to buy one of the more powerful consoles. As developers have already shown lack of wanting to develop on the WII U, but you should still be comparing the games of all the consoles. Just because Activision and EA will not support the console as much, but that does not mean it is dead in the water. The Wii U will be no slouch this generation, but a lot of it admittedly will be Nintendo.


----------



## JeremyR

I am not saying the Wii U is not a next gen console, I am just saying if the consumer desires the kind of games that make them gravitate to the PS4 and One, then the Wii U is not for them.
  
 For example when GTA 5 came out, the most successful game of all time, it didn't come to the Wii U. the 32 Meg of video ram might have had something to do with that, but even if there was no technical limitation, they would have avoided it. The reason is the people with a Wii U either have no interest in GTA5, or if they do, they also have a PS3 or 360.
  
 I am not bashing the Wii U. Not all video game players are the same. Some like different style of games.
  
 It's like if I posted on a forum asking about what truck I should get, Chevy vs Ford, and someone comes back with the Tesla Model S. The laundry list of reasons why that's a bad choice has nothing to do with my opinion of the Tesla. It's an awesome car, just not the right tool for the job.
  
 Same with the Wii U. It's a great gaming console for those that wish to play the games it's great at. If that's what you are looking for, you would not have posted a thread about the PS4 vs One.


----------



## gamefreak054

jeremyr said:


> I am not saying the Wii U is not a next gen console, I am just saying if the consumer desires the kind of games that make them gravitate to the PS4 and One, then the Wii U is not for them.
> 
> For example when GTA 5 came out, the most successful game of all time, it didn't come to the Wii U. the 32 Meg of video ram might have had something to do with that, but even if there was no technical limitation, they would have avoided it. The reason is the people with a Wii U either have no interest in GTA5, or if they do, they also have a PS3 or 360.
> 
> ...


 
 I was more so arguing that leaving it out of a next gen discussion (which more or less what this thread has become) is wrong. This thread has expanded much farther than the OPs orginal question, while most of the content being off topic, though I find it fitting for a 6 month old question that could have been answered the same way 1000x. For how big this thread has become needs to go beyond the scope of the simple question of XBONE vs PS4 to avoid the same information to be repeated. 
  
 Anyways pretty much all the consoles will have elements of both worlds. It just depends on which games you see more fitting to your play style. In which is more or less agreeing with you again, with the exception that the Wii U will be locked into what only nintendo puts out (in which is what I have been getting from your comments).  I did agree on that if you wanted a more mainstream title (not to be taken negatively, as I am mostly relating to sales) that you would have to buy a PS4 or XBONE. I have stated this before, but once again relating to the past the original Wii had a lot of sleeper hits that should have been more popular. Its a shame for a game like No More Heroes 2 to be overlooked when its a very good game.
  
 Also GTA5 broke a lot of 24 hour records, but I am not sure how many more it has broken since then. I really would not call it the most successful game of all time until it has broken other long term records.


----------



## JeremyR

gamefreak054 said:


> Also GTA5 broke a lot of 24 hour records, but I am not sure how many more it has broken since then. I really would not call it the most successful game of all time until it has broken other long term records.


 
  
 Considering it's grossed over 1.8 billion so far, and has yet to be released on the PC, PS4, or One, I would be hard pressed to find a video game that has made it's publisher more money. There are many games that have sold more copies (GTA5 is up to 30.5 million), but they have either been bundled with consoles, or sold for a lot less money.
  
 EDIT: I take that back... there have not been many that have sold more... there have been 7. When it's all said and done, GTA5 could easily be in the second spot.
  
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games
  
 EDIT again: It's also the highest selling game ever on the 360 and the PS3 by a long shot.


----------



## gamefreak054

jeremyr said:


> Considering it's grossed over 1.8 billion so far, and has yet to be released on the PC, PS4, or One, I would be hard pressed to find a video game that has made it's publisher more money. There are many games that have sold more copies (GTA5 is up to 30.5 million), but they have either been bundled with consoles, or sold for a lot less money.
> 
> EDIT: I take that back... there have not been many that have sold more... there have been 7. When it's all said and done, GTA5 could easily be in the second spot.
> 
> ...


 
 Wow, I actually find that list quite shocking. I thought Halo 3 would still be on the list (I am not a halo fan by any means), but the list is still dominated by nintendo even when you ignore the pack in titles. I knew Wii Sports would be at the top though. 
  
 I honestly did not know GTA V was that highly sold, because if you look at the month of December the game is in only in the middle of the list. I personally do not follow these sales charts though as I have never felt that a quality game had to have amazing sales.


----------



## JeremyR

gamefreak054 said:


> but the list is still dominated by nintendo even when you ignore the pack in titles.


 
  
 Yep, and this is why Nintendo only needs to make a console for it's IP's. It's why 32mb of video ram was a smart move. It's also why I have said if you like Nintendo games, you don't make a thread like this asking what console to buy. You just buy a Wii U and go play.
  
 Take a look at the Wii chart:
 http://www.vgchartz.com/platform/2/wii/
  
 And the Wii U is looking to be the same. 9 of the top 10 games are from Nintendo.
 http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=&publisher=&platform=WiiU&genre=&minSales=0&results=200
  
 If you ran Nintendo, would you have made a more powerful console? I sure wouldn't. If you were a game publisher that's not Nintendo, would you be excited to make a game for the Wii U? I sure wouldn't.


----------



## conquerator2

jeremyr said:


> Yep, and this is why Nintendo only needs to make a console for it's IP's. _*It's why 32mb of video ram was a smart move.*_ It's also why I have said if you like Nintendo games, you don't make a thread like this asking what console to buy. You just buy a Wii U and go play.
> 
> Take a look at the Wii chart:
> http://www.vgchartz.com/platform/2/wii/
> ...


 
 Is that ever a smart move? As long as it's not battery powered.... I doubt it :]


----------



## JeremyR

conquerator2 said:


> Is that ever a smart move? As long as it's not battery powered.... I doubt it :]


 
  
 It is if it cost a lot more to put more in it, and in the end it makes no difference on how many consoles you sell, or how many games you sell.
  
 People buy consoles for games. Titanfall will move a lot of Ones, Infamous will move a lot of PS4s, and the latest Mario game moved a lot of Wii U's.
  
 No non-Nintendo games are going to move a lot of Wii U's, and no Nintendo games requires a lot of video ram.


----------



## kyuuketsuki

conquerator2 said:


> Is that ever a smart move? As long as it's not battery powered.... I doubt it :]


 
  
 Considering that Nintendo's profits in the gaming industry obliterate MS and Sony, I think they might possibly know what they are doing by now.
  
 In fact they know how to do things so well that Sony can't touch them in mobile, and Wii was the most sold console in the last generation. And I'm fairly certain they'll outsell XBone and PS4 this generation as well. Not saying that MS or Sony will go under any time soon, as they gain revenue from many other areas, but Nintendo knows their industry well and knows their fans. 
  
 Ninendo has been doing games since,oh... around 1889. That's going on 125 years. That's longer than Sony and Microsoft have been companies COMBINED let alone in the gaming industry (which we won't even start on). Nintendo is a juggernaut in gaming, and are basically untouchable. They know how to maximize profits and minimize losses. Their systems, as far as I know, have never yielded a negative return, while MS and Sony have both had red years with their consoles. Naturally they cannot compete with either MS or Sony in overall revenue, mainly because they are purely a game company and MS and Sony are both in many other industries, but considering that they have even a 1/10th of the overall profits focusing on one thing is darn impressive.


----------



## conquerator2

kyuuketsuki said:


> Considering that Nintendo's profits in the gaming industry obliterate MS and Sony, I think they might possibly know what they are doing by now.
> 
> In fact they know how to do things so well that Sony can't touch them in mobile, and Wii was the most sold console in the last generation. And I'm fairly certain they'll outsell XBone and PS4 this generation as well. Not saying that MS or Sony will go under any time soon, as they gain revenue from many other areas, but Nintendo knows their industry well and knows their fans.
> 
> Ninendo has been doing games since,oh... around 1889. That's going on 125 years. That's longer than Sony and Microsoft have been companies COMBINED let alone in the gaming industry (which we won't even start on). Nintendo is a juggernaut in gaming, and are basically untouchable. They know how to maximize profits and minimize losses. Their systems, as far as I know, have never yielded a negative return, while MS and Sony have both had red years with their consoles. Naturally they cannot compete with either MS or Sony in overall revenue, mainly because they are purely a game company and MS and Sony are both in many other industries, but considering that they have even a 1/10th of the overall profits focusing on one thing is darn impressive.


 
 I was not trying to criticize Nintendo, I merely posed a question. 
 Nintendo, as any company, has had its ups and downs and... Well, whatever 
 http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-secret-developers-wii-u-the-inside-story


----------



## kyuuketsuki

conquerator2 said:


> I was not trying to criticize Nintendo, I merely posed a question.
> Nintendo, as any company, has had its ups and downs and... Well, whatever
> http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-secret-developers-wii-u-the-inside-story


 
  
 Yes they have, so has every other company. All I said is that their consoles never yeided a negative return. In other words, they never lost what they put into one of their consoles post release. 
  
 According to that article, Nintendo has only lost money due to Wii U, no other console. However they've lost money on peripherals, and they seem to have corrected issues in those peripherals and rereleased them in the current age with varying success. The same will probably be true of Wii U if they can't turn it around. Nintendo's net profits aren't so far in the red that they'll go under anytime soon (at least from my cursory research). We'll see how this goes. I highly doubt they'll go the way of Sega.


----------



## conquerator2

kyuuketsuki said:


> Yes they have, so has every other company. All I said is that their consoles never yeided a negative return. In other words, they never lost what they put into one of their consoles post release.
> 
> According to that article, Nintendo has only lost money due to Wii U, no other console. However they've lost money on peripherals, and they seem to have corrected issues in those peripherals and rereleased them in the current age with varying success. The same will probably be true of Wii U if they can't turn it around. Nintendo's net profits aren't so far in the red that they'll go under anytime soon (at least from my cursory research). We'll see how this goes. I highly doubt they'll go the way of Sega.


 
 Who would want that?
 Even if I am not a Nintendo fan, they are certainly Sony's/Microsoft's rivals in the gaming industry.
 Competition is always good. It brings motivation.


----------



## barleyguy

conquerator2 said:


> Who would want that?
> Even if I am not a Nintendo fan, they are certainly Sony's/Microsoft's rivals in the gaming industry.
> Competition is always good. It brings motivation.




Nintendo is at absolutely zero risk of bankruptcy. They have $9 billion in cash, and profitable or barely not ($20 million loss or so) every year. At this rate they could stay in business for another century. I also doubt they'll become a software only company. Doing so would cause a massive reduction in size, and being a "family" company, they feel an obligation to their employees.

The most likely scenario is that they stay the course for a long time to come.


----------



## barleyguy

I was curious last night so I looked at Nintendo's balance sheet...

Along with their pile of cash, they also currently have $2 billion in unsold inventory reported (the split between products I don't know). Assuming most of that inventory is unsold Wii Us, if they did a major price cut along with a bundled must have game, they could raise about a billion dollars, and increase the install base of their console.

For example, if they cut the Wii U to $179, and put Mario 3D World in the box with it, they might be able to put themselves back in the black while simultaneously creating an install base for other games.

The disadvantage to that plan is that they'd be devaluing the console and putting its perceived price below their manufacturing cost (probably). So a short term sell through of existing inventory could result in a long term selling below cost.


----------



## gamefreak054

barleyguy said:


> I was curious last night so I looked at Nintendo's balance sheet...
> 
> Along with their pile of cash, they also currently have $2 billion in unsold inventory reported (the split between products I don't know). Assuming most of that inventory is unsold Wii Us, if they did a major price cut along with a bundled must have game, they could raise about a billion dollars, and increase the install base of their console.
> 
> ...


 
 If nintendo was going to do another price cut at most they should cut $50 off the price. I honestly think the Wii U might have a good shot at a comeback within the next couple of months. They have a couple of heavy hitters announced while both the XB1 and PS4 are at a bit of a standstill until the next exclusive is released. Besides the 3ds is doing so well it will keep them afloat pretty easily. So far I am curious as how the XB1 will do in the next couple of months as they are selling pretty slowly around here, and I am even seeing xb1 games, controllers, and accessories at goodwills and salvation army stores. Wii U has some stuff there as well, but its generally that wipeout game.


----------



## Tgtr0660

I have all three consoles.


----------



## JeremyR

gamefreak054 said:


> I honestly think the Wii U might have a good shot at a comeback within the next couple of months.


 
  
 I give you props for your optimism. Unfortunately, Nintendo does not share it. They cut there projection on the Wii U sales through March by almost 70%
  
 http://wiiudaily.com/2014/01/nintendo-reduces-wii-u-sales-projections-from-9-million-to-2-8-million/


----------



## thatBeatsguy

tgtr0660 said:


> I have all three consoles.


 
 Wow, lol. Which do you think is the best?


----------



## Tgtr0660

Each has its strength. PS4 is definitely powerful and all the non-exclusives will go there; the xbox one's system actually impressed me (I detest Windows 8 yet I like the Win8-flavored Xbox os) and its controller is awesome; and the Wii U, well... After ZombiU nothing really has shown what the bad idea of a controller can be good for but anyway, even if it's gaining dust several weeks of the year, two words suffice for me: Mario and Zelda. HD. Enough said.


----------



## thatBeatsguy

tgtr0660 said:


> Each has its strength. PS4 is definitely powerful and all the non-exclusives will go there; the xbox one's system actually impressed me (I detest Windows 8 yet I like the Win8-flavored Xbox os) and its controller is awesome; and the Wii U, well... After ZombiU nothing really has shown what the bad idea of a controller can be good for but anyway, even if it's gaining dust several weeks of the year, two words suffice for me: Mario and Zelda. HD. Enough said.


 
 LOL
 Never liked the tablet controller of the Wii U, though I can't really say for certain as I've never held one in my hands, but I dunno...
 It reminds me of a small Razer Edge.


----------



## gamefreak054

tgtr0660 said:


> Each has its strength. PS4 is definitely powerful and all the non-exclusives will go there; the xbox one's system actually impressed me (I detest Windows 8 yet I like the Win8-flavored Xbox os) and its controller is awesome; and the Wii U, well... After ZombiU nothing really has shown what the bad idea of a controller can be good for but anyway, even if it's gaining dust several weeks of the year, two words suffice for me: Mario and Zelda. HD. Enough said.


 
 Pfft if your looking for something to play buy Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (if you couldn't tell I am a fan). If you get past the 50 hour or so learning curve (not entirely exaggerating on this either) then you are down for another 250 hours of fun. I spent 300 hours in that game without even having to learn it, and there were still 1 or 2 monsters I did not get around to killing. I could have easily spent another 100-200 hours if I wanted to complete all the online quests. The game is huge and Its basically a game were all you do is fight ridiculous boss battles. The online makes the game so much easier for newcomers as well.
  
 I just wish capcom was not full of dumb people, and would import the 4th one already. It is just getting tiring not receiving these game by now. I swear ever since the early 2000's they decided they had a good run, and decided to screw everyone over.


----------



## JeremyR

gamefreak054 said:


> Pfft if your looking for something to play buy Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (if you couldn't tell I am a fan). If you get past the 50 hour or so learning curve (not entirely exaggerating on this either) then you are down for another 250 hours of fun. I spent 300 hours in that game without even having to learn it, and there were still 1 or 2 monsters I did not get around to killing. I could have easily spent another 100-200 hours if I wanted to complete all the online quests. The game is huge and Its basically a game were all you do is fight ridiculous boss battles. The online makes the game so much easier for newcomers as well.
> 
> I just wish capcom was not full of dumb people, and would import the 4th one already. It is just getting tiring not receiving these game by now. I swear ever since the early 2000's they decided they had a good run, and decided to screw everyone over.


 
  
 Two things that stuck me with this post:
  
 1. A good game involves a 50 hour learning curve?
 2. It's Capcom's fault that Nintendo didn't sell enough consoles to make it cost effective to port the game from 3DS to Wii U? I am not aware of a Monster Hunter 4 for Wii U anywhere to Import.


----------



## gamefreak054

jeremyr said:


> Two things that stuck me with this post:
> 
> 1. A good game involves a 50 hour learning curve?
> 2. It's Capcom's fault that Nintendo didn't sell enough consoles to make it cost effective to port the game from 3DS to Wii U? I am not aware of a Monster Hunter 4 for Wii U anywhere to Import.


 
 1. Its kind of hard to explain. There is so much going on in the game that you almost have to play through a lot of hours before you even get ok at the game. You have to learn all the monsters animations and twitches to properly dodge them, or even to run off to drink a potion or sharpen your blade. On top of that it has a Dark Souls type clumsiness to it, which is supposed to be like that. If they changed that it would be your normal action adventure game, and would decrease the value of some weapon classes. The game is also wicked tough, most monsters kill you in a couple of hits. The battles can easily take up to 30 min if you do not know what your doing. Truly learning this game is like truly learning a fighting game or a shoot em up (not using all the continues in the world). 
  
 You really have to get past all this, and when you do it is a truly enjoyable game. It is pretty much why you will never see a glowing review from a professional reviewer. If they do not play the game on their free time then they simply do not have enough hours to play through the game properly to do a review on it. 
  
 Also another major problem is that the majority of the MH fans have put countless hours to learn its toughness. To make the game too easy now would be like stabbing those fans in the back. The game needs to be tough, otherwise its not MH. Which kind of puts the developers in an awkward position of how to make it easily accessible without ruining the experience for the fans who stick by the series.
  
 2. I was talking about the 3DS version which has been out for like 6 months and they have yet to even confirm it was coming to the us yet. I was not talking about a port to the Wii U. The fans of the series have shown many times MH belongs here in the US but Capcom has yet to properly support it.


----------



## JeremyR

gamefreak054 said:


> 1. Its kind of hard to explain. There is so much going on in the game that you almost have to play through a lot of hours before you even get ok at the game. You have to learn all the monsters animations and twitches to properly dodge them, or even to run off to drink a potion or sharpen your blade. On top of that it has a Dark Souls type clumsiness to it, which is supposed to be like that. If they changed that it would be your normal action adventure game, and would decrease the value of some weapon classes. The game is also wicked tough, most monsters kill you in a couple of hits. The battles can easily take up to 30 min if you do not know what your doing. Truly learning this game is like truly learning a fighting game or a shoot em up (not using all the continues in the world).
> 
> You really have to get past all this, and when you do it is a truly enjoyable game. It is pretty much why you will never see a glowing review from a professional reviewer. If they do not play the game on their free time then they simply do not have enough hours to play through the game properly to do a review on it.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for clearing all that up


----------



## disaac

The only I reason I even considered the One is because I had some friends getting it instead of the PS4


----------



## safwanc

i had both consoles but i ended up keeping the xbox one because it has better games at the moment. i will probably pick up a ps4 in a couple of years time but there is nothing i want to play on the ps4 in 2014.


----------



## safwanc

oh i forgot to mention, i played titanfall a few months ago at an expo and it is freaking amazing!


----------



## JeremyR

safwanc said:


> oh i forgot to mention, i played titanfall a few months ago at an expo and it is freaking amazing!


 
  
 I am sure. However I plan to play the master race version .
  
 I would hope you would do. If you can drop a grand on gaming consoles, you can build a much better gaming PC.


----------



## conquerator2

jeremyr said:


> I am sure. However I plan to play the master race version .
> 
> I would hope you would do. If you can drop a grand on gaming consoles, you can build a much better gaming PC.


 
 I have a gaming PC but my gamer's platform of choice is still the Playstation for its amazing exclusives so... It's more of an editing/working PC now


----------



## JeremyR

conquerator2 said:


> I have a gaming PC but my gamer's platform of choice is still the Playstation for its amazing exclusives so... It's more of an editing/working PC now


 
  
 That's not quite the same. You play those on the PS because you have no choice. If you play BF4, AC4, COD, or any other cross platform, do you play them on the PS4?
  
 (NBA2K excluded, as that's a different and better game on the consoles)


----------



## conquerator2

jeremyr said:


> That's not quite the same. You play those on the PS because you have no choice. If you play BF4, AC4, COD, or any other cross platform, do you play them on the PS4?
> 
> (NBA2K excluded, as that's a different and better game on the consoles)


 
 I do... I dunno, it just feels different, like I am using the same 24" monitor for both my PC and consoles but... playing games on my PC.... I dunno, it feels weird for some reason.
 Also, I am into trophies a lot so, that's partially to blame too.
  
 Said that, I occasionally play games on the PC, but very rarely.


----------



## safwanc

jeremyr said:


> I am sure. However I plan to play the master race version .
> 
> I would hope you would do. If you can drop a grand on gaming consoles, you can build a much better gaming PC.


 
  
 i am going to play it on the x1. i just prefer to play on consoles than pc. i  prefer to have a light and portable laptop to take to classes and a console to game on.
  
 he pc version of titanfall will support 4k, so depending on your rig, you can make it look insanely good.


----------



## JeremyR

safwanc said:


> i am going to play it on the x1. i just prefer to play on consoles than pc. i  prefer to have a light and portable laptop to take to classes and a console to game on.
> 
> he pc version of titanfall will support 4k, so depending on your rig, you can make it look insanely good.


 
  
 I have a rig that can play it at 4K, but I don't have a 4K monitor yet. When a 4K G-Sync is released, I will buy it.


----------



## conquerator2

jeremyr said:


> I have a rig that can play it at 4K, but I don't have a 4K monitor yet. When a 4K G-Sync is released, I will buy it.


 
 Your specs man?
 I am curios how far behind I am.


----------



## JeremyR

conquerator2 said:


> Your specs man?
> I am curios how far behind I am.


 
  
 Two GTX 780's is really all that matters, I have pretty high end ram, cpu, ssd, and the like, but really it's all the GPU's


----------



## conquerator2

jeremyr said:


> Two GTX 780's is really all that matters, I have pretty high end ram, cpu, ssd, and the like, but really it's all the GPU's


 
 Hmph, certainly an overkill for now, but future-proof/4K ready.
 I bet there aren't many with specs like you. I am rocking a 7950 Vapor-X and 8350K, coupled with 16 gigs of RAM and a mixture of SSD for Win and a fast raid-0 HDD for the rest. Still in the upper echelons easily IMO, but certainly not capable of smooth 4K with highest details...
  
 Then again, I am a console guy


----------



## JeremyR

conquerator2 said:


> Hmph, certainly an overkill for now, but future-proof/4K ready.
> I bet there aren't many with specs like you. I am rocking a 7950 Vapor-X and 8350K, coupled with 16 gigs of RAM and a mixture of SSD for Win and a fast raid-0 HDD for the rest. Still in the upper echelons easily IMO, but certainly not capable of smooth 4K with highest details...
> 
> Then again, I am a console guy


 
  
 Mine I am sure can't run 4K with the highest details with every game. That's why I want G-Sync 
  
 2560x1440 is great though 
  
 EDIT: I hear the PS4 can support 4K, so my guess is before its life is over, they will release 4K support, and someone will make a 4K game for it.


----------



## conquerator2

jeremyr said:


> Mine I am sure can't run 4K with the highest details with every game. That's why I want G-Sync
> 
> 2560x1440 is great though


 
 Whatever floats your boat mate :]
 The important thing is, that we're both happy with what we are going for :]


----------



## gamefreak054

jeremyr said:


> Mine I am sure can't run 4K with the highest details with every game. That's why I want G-Sync
> 
> 2560x1440 is great though
> 
> EDIT: I hear the PS4 can support 4K, so my guess is before its life is over, they will release 4K support, and someone will make a 4K game for it.


 
 I doubt the PS4 will ever play a 4k game. They specifically said that the 4k support is for pictures, and movies. On top of that I think the resolution gets worse as time goes on. As they are trying to push the limits of it graphically not necessarily resolution wise. For example better textures, colors, more objects on screen, and more. The PS3 had way more 1080P games in the beginning of it but now most of the games released for it are 720P.


----------



## Tgtr0660

By the way there should be a "both" option in this poll...


----------



## JeremyR

gamefreak054 said:


> I doubt the PS4 will ever play a 4k game. They specifically said that the 4k support is for pictures, and movies. On top of that I think the resolution gets worse as time goes on. As they are trying to push the limits of it graphically not necessarily resolution wise. For example better textures, colors, more objects on screen, and more. The PS3 had way more 1080P games in the beginning of it but now most of the games released for it are 720P.


 
  
 I don't expect a 4K BF6 or anything, but a lot of the indie games, like Resogun, could be done in 4K.
  
 The life of the consoles should be around 7 years, so no clue what's going to happen over that time. What I do know with complete certainty, is the PS4 and the One will be completely different beasts by the time the next console comes out.


----------



## butter30

I'm going buy a lenovo y50 with 4k display pwn your punny screens WUHAHAHAHA


----------



## SammyJr

I regret buying any of them (I bought both, and returned the Xbox). The PS4 had an issue and I had to send it to Sony. I got it back and haven't even hooked it up yet. With school I just don't feel I have the time to game like I used to. Plus, I still have to beat 3 games on the 360 before I play Ps4 (dark souls, skyrim dlc, and witcher 2). Those 3 games will take a very long time for me to beat, esp since I only play in the summer, maybe 1 hour a day lol.


----------



## martin vegas

Two 780s will struggle with 4k..i have two amd 7990s that can play 4k with a 4770k i7 sabertooth z87 with 16gb ram and a Samsung 840 evo ssd corsair ax1200i noctua fans overclocked to 4.8ghz..the only bad thing about them is the coil whine..i got a NZXT H630 with added sound dampening to get rid of the whining noise!


----------



## martin vegas




----------



## thisissparta

What kind of features does PS4 have and don't have compared to XBOX ONE?


----------



## thisissparta

I still have a lot of games to play in PS3. LOL


----------



## Godflight

Playstation #4. My cousin has it, and my brother's has forced his way to have it, so PS4 is for me. Also, I'm just used to Playstation #3, and I doubt Playstation #4 is different, not included different GUI, graphics, touch pad interface and more. And the really useful thing with PS4 is that its' controller comes with a 3.5mm Jack... which is able to connect to my future DT 770s... 
  
 But still, I think both consoles are fair game, just the fact the Sony has headphone compatibility right out of the box really just wins it for me. Goodbye, Astro A40s! Can't wait to get my Beyers.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You have another thing coming if you think the ps4 controller will power the DT770 even moderately okay.


----------



## martin vegas




----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What does that have to do with what I said? And from what I've heard, BF4 runs at 60fps for both consoles, so I dunno where you got that from. Even if it were true, ps4 runs most multiplat games better. The new Metal Gear will run at 1080p/60fps on ps4, 720 for XB1. Tomb Raider almost always runs at 60, while its 30 or less on XB1. Yeah, I'll stick with the ps4.

http://bf4central.com/2013/11/battlefield-4-running-ps4-60-fps-video/

BF4 video at 60fps on PS4... (keep the vid windowed )


----------



## martin vegas

mad lust envy said:


> What does that have to do with what I said? And from what I've heard, BF4 runs at 60fps for both consoles, so I dunno where you got that from. Even if it were true, ps4 runs most multiplat games better. The new Metal Gear will run at 1080p/60fps on ps4, 720 for XB1. Tomb Raider almost always runs at 60, while its 30 or less on XB1. Yeah, I'll stick with the ps4.
> 
> http://bf4central.com/2013/11/battlefield-4-running-ps4-60-fps-video/
> 
> BF4 video at 60fps on PS4... (keep the vid windowed )


 

 Ok, my bad don't bite my head off!


----------



## Rhino73

Dreamcast FTW!


----------



## martin vegas

Can I still use my arcam r dac over optical with a ps4? my dac has no decoders and will only accept a stereo signal!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes. All you have to do is set the PS4 to digital stereo.


----------



## Zombie_X

martin vegas,
  
 Yeah you can use your DAC with the PS4. Set the audio output to LPCM and set the output device as Optical. Tried with my V800 DAC and it worked fine.
  
 I got my Fidelio X1's in and they are great. They are good as a gaming headphone as well. Paired them with a V-Moda mic cable and all is well.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Kinda like an easier to listen DT990, right? A lot less treble peak, open, bassy.


----------



## rc10mike

Both next gen consoles are a complete joke IMO. Sure, you get slightly improved graphics, and a new controller, but one would expect Next Gen to be able to do EVERYTHING the last gen could do and THEN some.
  
 Not the case this time, both next gen consoles lack even simple features that previous gen had. Its a shame IMO.


----------



## Zombie_X

rc10mike said:


> Both next gen consoles are a complete joke IMO. Sure, you get slightly improved graphics, and a new controller, but one would expect Next Gen to be able to do EVERYTHING the last gen could do and THEN some.
> 
> Not the case this time, both next gen consoles lack even simple features that previous gen had. Its a shame IMO.


 
  
 I feel you man. The PS4 is missing a lot of functionality that the PS3 had. Can't believe Sony thought we didn't want CD playback or media servers... not to mention video/audio file playback...
  
 MLE, I find it to be nothing like the DT990. I find the DT990 to be superior in terms of detail and transparency, but it's not as intimate and involving as the X1. The X1 also had more midbass and it's more defined and controlled. What I like most is the upfront midrange. Not thin or hollowed, nice and full. Kamelot sounds really goo on this headphone.
  

  
 The X1 is really good and is kinda like the HD650, but a ton less muddy and hazy sounding, so I like it more than the HD650. It has just enough treble energy to sound energetic while not being strident or harsh, the perfect balance! It's much better than I expected. Makes me want to try the L1 now and have that for portable use.
  
 SORRY TO DERAIL!!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, I don't mean it sounds like the DT990, but that it does similar things:

Open, airy, mid bass emphasized, energetic treble (though way less than the 990). I say it makes the 990 obsolete, really. The 990 is more refined, but much more polarizing and least likely to please the general population.

I guess I would say it's a middle ground between the 990 and the 650. The 3 bassy open dynamics. Not many of those out there.


----------



## Zombie_X

I could easily agree with it being the middle ground. It has aspects of each. More like all the strengths of each. I prefer it's sonic tone/presentation to either of those, but not dethroning either.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, that's exactly how I feel. The 990 and 650 are 'more' than the X1, but the X1's balance and middle ground characteristics of both make it more appealing than either.


----------



## martin vegas

What do I need to get a ps4 online and play bf4, apart from the game and premium?


----------



## FlipE

Such a hard choice.. I think PS4 cause I've had the Xbox for so long. I hear bad things about Microsoft now, though I still love the Xbox, haha.


----------



## 1337rice

martin vegas said:


> What do I need to get a ps4 online and play bf4, apart from the game and premium?


 
 Playstation Plus subscription 
  
 But seriously, I bought a PS4 and it's just been collecting dust. I've used it more for Crackle than playing games. Heck, I turn on the PS3 more often than the PS4. Just because your friends have one, there's seriously no pressure if you don't have a PS4 or even a Xbox One, there isn't anything worth buying these consoles.


----------



## martin vegas

1337rice said:


> Playstation Plus subscription
> 
> But seriously, I bought a PS4 and it's just been collecting dust. I've used it more for Crackle than playing games. Heck, I turn on the PS3 more often than the PS4. Just because your friends have one, there's seriously no pressure if you don't have a PS4 or even a Xbox One, there isn't anything worth buying these consoles.


 

 Be mainly for ps4..thanks for your reply!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's true. As of right now, neither systems are worth getting. By the end of this year is when it will be the right time for them. I have my ps4, and I'm just looking for a reason to play it. My ps3 is about to get a LOT more use. Gotta love the support it's getting. I just wish the ps4 was backwards compatible, so I could sell the ps3.


----------



## gamefreak054

I have been enjoying my PS4 recently. I cannot decide if it was completely worth it or not. Outlast was enjoyable for the short time it lasted. I put a decent amount of time into BF4, and am playing KZ Shadow Fall a decent amount. I also will probably pick up NFS Rivals soon and that will hold me off until infamous comes out. So I will put some use into mine, but I still feel like its nothing that I have to have. There are some decent games out there, but a lot of them have been multiplatform 
  
 I think what bums me out this release so far is the lack of options. Everything I run into seems severely limited to something stupid. I had this problem with the Wii U as well.


----------



## martin vegas

Microsoft has cut the price of the Xbox One in the UK to £400. The new price will kick in on Friday February 28th. Also announced is a new bundle including an Xbox One and the Titanfall game, also for £400. This is available for pre-order from today. The Titanfall offer comes with special edition Titanfall packaging and includes an Xbox One console, Kinect sensor, standard Xbox One wireless controller, standard Xbox One Chat Headset, one month of Xbox Live Gold membership and a digital copy of Titanfall from Respawn Entertainment and Electronic Arts. Sounds like a decent deal, then. Harvey Eagle, Marketing Director, Xbox UK said: "At Xbox, we believe there’s never been a better time to join the new console generation. "To help our fans do just that, Xbox One will be available at the new UK estimated retail price (ERP) of £399.99 from February 28th." The Xbox One is currently being outsold in no small way by the PS4, even though the PS4 only went on sale in its native Japan last Saturday. So it's easy to see the price cut as a simple attempt to boost sales of the new Xbox. And we can drink to that. If you want to pre-order the Xbox One Titanfall bundle, you can do so here


----------



## AxelCloris

martin vegas said:


> Microsoft has cut the price of the Xbox One in the UK to £400. The new price will kick in on Friday February 28th. Also announced is a new bundle including an Xbox One and the Titanfall game, also for £400. This is available for pre-order from today. The Titanfall offer comes with special edition Titanfall packaging and includes an Xbox One console, Kinect sensor, standard Xbox One wireless controller, standard Xbox One Chat Headset, one month of Xbox Live Gold membership and a digital copy of Titanfall from Respawn Entertainment and Electronic Arts. Sounds like a decent deal, then. Harvey Eagle, Marketing Director, Xbox UK said: "At Xbox, we believe there’s never been a better time to join the new console generation. "To help our fans do just that, Xbox One will be available at the new UK estimated retail price (ERP) of £399.99 from February 28th." The Xbox One is currently being outsold in no small way by the PS4, even though the PS4 only went on sale in its native Japan last Saturday. So it's easy to see the price cut as a simple attempt to boost sales of the new Xbox. And we can drink to that. If you want to pre-order the Xbox One Titanfall bundle, you can do so here


 
  
 Citing Martin's post. Plagiarism is an issue.
  
 http://www.whathifi.com/news/xbox-one-uk-price-cut-to-%C2%A3400


----------



## rc10mike

I always thought having the thumbsticks in the same spot made sense. To me the PS4 controller feels "natural" where as the XBones controller is sort of strange. Our hands are the same on both sides, why does Microsoft feel the thumbsticks need to be in different places!?!?!  The 360 always made my hands hurt after a while..


----------



## gamefreak054

I agree the Playstation controls have always been more comfortable to me. The Wii U Pro controller is pretty comfortable as well once you get used to it. It starts off being very awkward with having all the face buttons below the sticks.
  
 Also on the xbone, I think the price drop in the US would not be that shocking to me at all. The xbones around me are selling like crap. They are in stock everywhere and companies are posting signs up saying they are in stock all around the store. I do not think Titanfall is going to be the saving grace everybody is thinking it is going to be. It looks very overhyped imo. Granted I have not played it. but after watching videos it does not look anything special. It looks more of the range of Starhawk/Warhawk quality. In that it will be a really fun game, but only a select group will really love it and enjoy it for what it is. Not a system seller they are pushing it to be. On top of that it is also on PC which does not help.


----------



## nanaholic

rc10mike said:


> I always thought having the thumbsticks in the same spot made sense. To me the PS4 controller feels "natural" where as the XBones controller is sort of strange. Our hands are the same on both sides, why does Microsoft feel the thumbsticks need to be in different places!?!?!  The 360 always made my hands hurt after a while..


 
  
 Actually the 360 layout (which was derived from the Dreamcast controller) makes more sense and is arguably more ergonomic.  
  
 Ever since the the original Nintendo, controllers were designed such that you spend the majority of the time with your left thumb controlling movements while the majority of the time of your right thumb hitting buttons, so already both thumbs do different things so that it actually doesn't makes sense to have a symmetrical layout where both thumb sticks on the same level like the PlayStation one because your thumbs won't be placed level the majority of the time in such a layout.  This is especially true now that more and more games uses the analog stick over the D-pad for movement, so the D-pad should become the secondary input instead of the primary, and the more natural thumb position is up high, not stretch low.  
  
 Also don't forget the DualShock was originally just the PlayStation controller with the thumb sticks tacked on at the botton during the middle of the lifespan of the original PlayStation so it was a stop gap solution that got stuck due to familiarity and not because it was actually designed well.  It actually makes less sense that Sony never bothered to improve the layout as the console generation moved on and still insist on having the less used D-pad in the primary position.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I agree. My perfect controller would be the Dualshock 4 with the 360 analog layout.


----------



## martin vegas

mad lust envy said:


> I agree. My perfect controller would be the Dualshock 4 with the 360 analog layout.


 

 That's what putting me off the ps4..i am used to the layout of the 360 controller..it's just the bf4 720 resolution that's putting me off the xbox one, imagine what bf5 will be like if it can't do 4 at 1080p!


----------



## conquerator2

I don't find any issues with either... I've arguably spent more time with the PS controllers but own both and have no problems switching whatsoever...
Does really anyone find it problematic? What does it matter if the joysticks are next to each other or not...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That being said, the PS4 I have zero issues with, even if I prefer the left analog and dpad switched.

It's much better than the PS3 controller.

I actually prefer the 360 controller over the XB1s which I feel is shaped oddly.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I got my A30s in. Definitely better. It no longer sounds completely anemic and one sided. Still I'd take the Slyr over the A30s any day of the week. The A30s don't even remotely come close to the DNA On Ear, which is basically a huge improvement in every single aspect, from what I'm hearing. Still, it's gonna take me some time to get to reviewing these. I'll be starting my DNA On Ear review soon.

Now having the BoomPro, the DNA just makes a clear choice over the A30s for me. Obviously completely different price ranges, but there's no reason for me to own the A30s. They work, and I'll probably sell them for cheap.


----------



## martin vegas




----------



## rc10mike

nanaholic said:


> Actually the 360 layout (which was derived from the Dreamcast controller) makes more sense and is arguably more ergonomic.
> 
> Ever since the the original Nintendo, controllers were designed such that you spend the majority of the time with your left thumb controlling movements while the majority of the time of your right thumb hitting buttons, so already both thumbs do different things so that it actually doesn't makes sense to have a symmetrical layout where both thumb sticks on the same level like the PlayStation one because your thumbs won't be placed level the majority of the time in such a layout.  This is especially true now that more and more games uses the analog stick over the D-pad for movement, so the D-pad should become the secondary input instead of the primary, and the more natural thumb position is up high, not stretch low.
> 
> Also don't forget the DualShock was originally just the PlayStation controller with the thumb sticks tacked on at the botton during the middle of the lifespan of the original PlayStation so it was a stop gap solution that got stuck due to familiarity and not because it was actually designed well.  It actually makes less sense that Sony never bothered to improve the layout as the console generation moved on and still insist on having the less used D-pad in the primary position.


 
  
 Modern 3D games use two sticks that your thumbs will be on 90% of the time. I fail to see your logic in your argument. On top of that, old-school (NES, SNES)controllers paced your thumbs in the same spot. It doesnt matter what they were doing, but they were symmetrical.


----------



## nanaholic

rc10mike said:


> Modern 3D games use two sticks that your thumbs will be on 90% of the time. I fail to see your logic in your argument. On top of that, old-school (NES, SNES)controllers paced your thumbs in the same spot. It doesnt matter what they were doing, but they were symmetrical.


 
  
 You need to play more games - only modern FPS has you using both thumb sticks at the same time for the majority of the time.  3D action games for example don't.
  
 The old school controllers aren't symmetrical like the Dualshock - that's the entire point which seems to have flew over your head.


----------



## thisissparta

I'd buy PS4 after I finish playing all the games that I like to finish in PS3. Anyone here would like to keep their PS3's after they buy PS4? 'Cause I'm keeping all my Playstations. HAHA!


----------



## gamefreak054

I am keeping my ps3 for a long time, but I am a video game collector. I am surprised at the amount of people I talk to who pack away their old console the second they buy the new one. 
  
 Hell I still have to play Dark Souls 2 when that is released. Though I may wait a bit to see if a PS4 port comes out.


----------



## martin vegas

thisissparta said:


> I'd buy PS4 after I finish playing all the games that I like to finish in PS3. Anyone here would like to keep their PS3's after they buy PS4? 'Cause I'm keeping all my Playstations. HAHA!


 

 If you could play old gen games on your next gen, it would make a lot of people stick to the same console brand..i am still debating over xbox one or ps4..i want to play dead rising 3 and killer instinct but not forza(project gotham racing it isn't)..not really a game on ps4 I want to play yet, but want to play what's new from the team who made the last of us!


----------



## nanaholic

martin vegas said:


> .i am still debating over xbox one or ps4..i want to play dead rising 3 and killer instinct but not forza(project gotham racing it isn't)..not really a game on ps4 I want to play yet, but want to play what's new from the team who made the last of us!


 
  
 Buy the X1 first and play those games which you can play now, then get the PS4 when it has the games you want.  Problem solved.
  
 I don't get this fanboy tendency to just stick with one brand for a console - it's like irrationally sticking to only one brand of headphones.  I mean I "get" it - I used to be like that when I was a high school kid wanting to be in the "cool group", but ever since I earn my living I just buy all the consoles which has games I want to play.  If it has the games you want to play, then freaking save the money to buy it!


----------



## martin vegas

nanaholic said:


> Buy the X1 first and play those games which you can play now, then get the PS4 when it has the games you want.  Problem solved.
> 
> I don't get this fanboy tendency to just stick with one brand for a console - it's like irrationally sticking to only one brand of headphones.  I mean I "get" it - I used to be like that when I was a high school kid wanting to be in the "cool group", but ever since I earn my living I just buy all the consoles which has games I want to play.  If it has the games you want to play, then freaking save the money to buy it!


 

 The thing is I live in England and have a ps3 in new York that I haven't even turned on..i bought the ps3 just to play the last of us, but djing for three days at electric zoo and having hang overs(sauna in east village with plenty of water then back out on the beer again) has stopped me from playing it.trying to get to new York for a full 6 weeks and should hopefully finish the game!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My PS3 will stay with me until they stop making JRPGs for it.


----------



## martin vegas

mad lust envy said:


> My PS3 will stay with me until they stop making JRPGs for it.


 
 Tokyos the place to get a load of them for cheap mate!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Considering I can't speak or read japanese...


----------



## Seifer01

I'd buy the PS4. I've always had Playstations ever since the game changing, arcade killing, PS1  
I've owned many consoles in the past. I had an X Box, I loved it for Ninja Gaiden, Doom 3 etc. I didn't get an X360 because of the RROD, and disc scratching. Besides, I've been happy with my PS3 for the past few years, it's served me very well, and has been rock solid reliability wise.
My gaming days are coming to an end anyway I reckon, I don't play as much as I used to.
So yeah, PS4. The Xbox One seemed to be some kind of fascist Orwellian control console lol, more focussed on trying to kill the used game market, and being a media hub, stuff like that, rather than a games machine.
Part of me would like to see a new dawn for Nintendo, another golden age, like the SNES/N64 days


----------



## martin vegas

seifer01 said:


> I'd buy the PS4. I've always had Playstations ever since the game changing, arcade killing, PS1
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I went the N64 then dreamcast xbox and xbox 360 route..still debating over ps4 or xbox one..i think it's going to be sony this time though!


----------



## Seifer01

martin vegas said:


> I went the N64 then dreamcast xbox and xbox 360 route..still debating over ps4 or xbox one..i think it's going to be sony this time though!




Amstrad CPC 464
Commodore Amiga A500+
Sega Megadrive 
Super Nintendo
Nintendo 64
Sega Saturn
Playstation
Sega Dreamcast
Playstation 2
Nintendo Gamecube
Xbox
Playstation 3

Are the games machines I've owned, but not all at the same time lol.
I've done a lot of gaming over the years  I've also played my mates arcade boards, classics like Rastan Saga, Vulcan Venture, Final fight, etc. Ah, good times.


----------



## Change is Good

In my lifetime (31 years)

Atari 2600
Nintendo ES
Sega Genesis
Super Nintendo
Sega Saturn
Sony PlayStation
Sony Playstation 2
XBox 360 (ROD)
Sony Playstation 3
Sony Playstation 4

Memories...


----------



## thisissparta

It's always to stay on the line for the next gen consoles. Because not only you can brag your friends about it, but you can play the latest games available in the market. PS4 is what I would buy and not XBOX One, but if I have a chance to have 1grand/month I would definitely buy both of them. LOL! Last of Us 2 FTW!


----------



## nanaholic

What I've owned:
Famicom (Japanese Nintendo) + disk drive system
NEC PC-Engine
Super Nintendo (still have this)
Gameboy
Sony PlayStation 
Sega Saturn (still have this)
Bandai Wonder Swan (still have this)
Gameboy Advance
Sega Dreamcast (still have this, 2 in fact as one is a limited edition)
Neo Geo Pocket (still have this)
Gamecube
PlayStation 2
Nintendo DS (still have this)
Playstation Portable (still have this)
Nintendo Wii (still have this)
XBox 360 (still have this)
PlayStation 3 (still have this)
Playstation Vita (still have this)
Nintendo 3DS (still have this)
XBox One (yeah still have this)

yeah I play A LOT of consoles - for the games - which is why I find rooting for a particular console/brand a terrible and stupid concept which I realised around the PS/Saturn era. If a system has the game I want to play, I saved the money to buy it.


----------



## martin vegas

seifer01 said:


> Amstrad CPC 464
> Commodore Amiga A500+
> Sega Megadrive
> Super Nintendo
> ...


 

 I started with the Atari Amstrad CPC 664 Master system megadrive (nearly bought a Atari jaguar)Super Nintendo Nintendo 64 Dreamcast Xbox N-gage Xbox360 Wii Ps3(not played yet) Gaming pc and Hyperspin arcade cabinet..my mates had C64s Amigas and Saturns!


----------



## martin vegas

I remember playing this every Friday around my mates house..i still play this in arcades if I see it!


----------



## martin vegas




----------



## Seifer01

Ah Sega Rally :bigsmile_face: I bought a Saturn pretty much because of that game. After the disappointing conversion of Daytona USA, I was leaning towards the Playstation, but then I saw Sega Rally on a UK tv show called Bad Influence and it was thus decided, I needed a Saturn.
I played that game for weeks, loved it. What a great time for games the 90's was, gamings golden decade. The leap from 2D to 3D, sprites to polygons. It had everything the 90's, lol.
I remember seeing Ridge Racer on an import Playstation in a shop, and just being utterly blown away, life changing moment haha.
Another life changing moment was being in a games shop playing Street Fighter II the coin op with my mate and the SNES version was running at the same time behind the counter. "Oh my god! it's exactly the same as the arcade!!". It wasn't, lol, but still it was incredible that such a good conversion was even on a home console. 
Anyway I could waffle on about games all day lol. I'm going to do a spot of gaming tonight I reckon.


----------



## conquerator2

martin vegas said:


>




Titanfall and 792p ;D


----------



## Seifer01

nanaholic said:


> yeah I play A LOT of consoles - for the games - which is why I find rooting for a particular console/brand a terrible and stupid concept which I realised around the PS/Saturn era. If a system has the game I want to play, I saved the money to buy it.




This. I'm a fan of good quality, well made games, I don't care what machine they're on. 
Nice to see all the games machines you peeps own/have owned. I wish I still had all mine, lol.


----------



## Seifer01

martin vegas said:


> (nearly bought a Atari jaguar)




I literally sucked air between my teeth then said "ooooooo" then grimaced, when I read that. Close call  The poor Jag was hideously underpowered, developers weren't really interested. It just couldn't live with the big boys. And THAT control pad... holy s**t... One of the big console failures along with the 3DO and the Philips CDI.


----------



## martin vegas

seifer01 said:


> I literally sucked air between my teeth then said "ooooooo" then grimaced, when I read that. Close call
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 When it was released I went around every game shop in London and they were either sold out or they didn't stock them..i ended up in enfield town the only shop that had them in was a pay monthly shop..the man behind the counter said I could have one but not for cash just on a pay monthly thing..I think the retail price was about three hundred quid and he worked It out on his computer how much it would cost me on this pay monthly crap and it was about nine hundred pound..i just went to the nearest game shop and got myself a snes!


----------



## gamefreak054

martin vegas said:


>


 
 Don't forget the amazing DAYTONAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
  

  
 I still play all the old consoles despite some of them being before my time. The genesis is probably my fave and its one hell of a console. Too bad its often overshadowed by the popularity of the SNES.


----------



## martin vegas

gamefreak054 said:


> Don't forget the amazing DAYTONAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
> 
> 
> 
> I still play all the old consoles despite some of them being before my time. The genesis is probably my fave and its one hell of a console. Too bad its often overshadowed by the popularity of the SNES.




 The music on this at the time was unbelievable..it still sounds good now!


----------



## thisissparta

What does XBOX One's features have that PS4 don't? Does PS4 also have voice control?


----------



## gamefreak054

thisissparta said:


> What does XBOX One's features have that PS4 don't? Does PS4 also have voice control?


 
 Yes the PS4 has some voice control. The Xbone has that tv junk on it (I forget what it actually includes).
  
 Sadly in this day in age both still lack Blast Processing.


----------



## thatBeatsguy

gamefreak054 said:


> Yes the PS4 has some voice control. The Xbone has that tv junk on it (I forget what it actually includes).
> 
> Sadly in this day in age both still lack Blast Processing.


 
 The PS4 includes voice control, but apparently only as an optional thing on their PS Eye.
 The XBOne has voice control _from the get-go_, thanks to its Kinect 2.0. As for the 'TV junk' that you mentioned, the XBOne can connect to your set-top box so that it pretty much gives you your TV from there.
  
 Not saying this in favor of the XBOne -- I hate that thing a lot, though the 360 was pretty good.


----------



## martin vegas

Will I be able to get sound from the ps4's blue ray player over optical if my dac is stereo without any decoders..need to know this, I am buying the new console next week..it's either a ps4 or xbox one but I really want a ps4, if I can't get sound with a ps4 but can with the xbox one it will have to be a xbox one.my monitor has no speakers so I won't be able to get any sound only through my dac amp speakers and headset!


----------



## conquerator2

martin vegas said:


> Will I be able to get sound from the ps4's blue ray player over optical if my dac is stereo without any decoders..need to know this, I am buying the new console next week..it's either a ps4 or xbox one but I really want a ps4, if I can't get sound with a ps4 but can with the xbox one it will have to be a xbox one.my monitor has no speakers so I won't be able to get any sound only through my dac amp speakers and headset!




Pretty sure you will if you select the right settings.


----------



## gamefreak054

thatbeatsguy said:


> The PS4 includes voice control, but apparently only as an optional thing on their PS Eye.
> The XBOne has voice control _from the get-go_, thanks to its Kinect 2.0. As for the 'TV junk' that you mentioned, the XBOne can connect to your set-top box so that it pretty much gives you your TV from there.
> 
> Not saying this in favor of the XBOne -- I hate that thing a lot, though the 360 was pretty good.


 
 Yeah, I forgot to mention that it needed the PS Eye. No offense to the other person, but I think voice control is useless. I also did not mean the tv stuff in a negative way initially, but I did not know what to call it. Personally I think that is kind of useless as well. It takes me like 2 presses of a button to get back to tv. Granted I do not know the ins and outs of what the tv stuff actually does.


----------



## thatBeatsguy

gamefreak054 said:


> Yeah, I forgot to mention that it needed the PS Eye. No offense to the other person, but I think voice control is useless. I also did not mean the tv stuff in a negative way initially, but I did not know what to call it. Personally I think that is kind of useless as well. It takes me like 2 presses of a button to get back to tv. _Granted I do not know the ins and outs of what the tv stuff actually does._


 
 Tbh I don't know either, but all it does is make you really lazy since you could switch from games to the TV faster than you could say "let me see he damned news." That's pretty much all there is to it. It's useless for those who use cable TV, though.


----------



## Croozer

No Titanfall on PS4 :mad:

Luckily I'm a member of the PC Gaming Master Race


----------



## SammyJr

I made the mistake of getting both at launch. I luckily returned the X1, but still have a ps4 and haven't even touched it b/c of school. And once I get out of school, I will be needing a job, and want to finish my 360 games first. I really could've used that extra $400 lol


----------



## AxelCloris

Xbox One Titanfall bundle is $450 at Walmart and Best Buy. $50 cheaper than the console by itself and with Titanfall included, that makes it cheaper than the PS4 and a game.


----------



## Change is Good

Grrrr... you are making me want an XB1 just for Titanfall, now lol


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Grrrr... you are making me want an XB1 just for Titanfall, now lol


 
  
 Ha, content my butt.


----------



## Change is Good

Content enough headphone wise, at least lol

This isn't anything new, however, in regards to the Xbox and me. I contemplated for years buying a 360 again (after the first ROD) just for Halo and Gears of War. 

Never did it... 

DICE needs to stop playing and give us BF: 2143. I think EA screwed us, there, and gave us BF4 so it wouldn't interfere with Titanfall.


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Content enough headphone wise, at least lol
> 
> This isn't anything new, however, when regards to the Xbox and me. I contemplated for years buying a 360 again (after the first ROD) just for Halo and Gears of War.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Oh man, I would pay pools of money for a great battlefield 2142 sequel. Especially now that the Battlefield franchise is getting more recognition than it did when 2142 came out. It was weird, Battlefield 2 was crazy popular, then only a year later 2142 came out and was awesome but still had issues selling.


----------



## conquerator2

change is good said:


> Content enough headphone wise, at least lol
> 
> This isn't anything new, however, in regards to the Xbox and me. I contemplated for years buying a 360 again (after the first ROD) just for Halo and Gears of War.
> 
> ...


 
 2x 360s did that on me in the span of one year....
 Regardless, Titanfall also available on PC [and 360].
 Then again, for me the MS exclusives don't hold much importance in contrast with Sony's [save for Alan Wake, which I enjoyed immensely, and some Halo and obviously the classics like Gears and Forza are rgeat, but I've already enjoyed those on the 360]
 My fat PS3 recently died on me but decided to get a Super Slim still and PS4 later...
 Greatness Awaits me


----------



## Change is Good

conquerator2 said:


> 2x 360s did that on me in the span of one year....
> Regardless, Titanfall also available on PC [and 360].
> Then again, for me the MS exclusives don't hold much importance in contrast with Sony's [save for Alan Wake, which I enjoyed immensely, and some Halo and obviously the classics like Gears and Forza are rgeat, but I've already enjoyed those on the 360]
> My fat PS3 recently died on me but decided to get a Super Slim still and PS4 later...
> Greatness Awaits me




My ROD 360 was covered under warranty, but I ended up selling the replacement when I got a PS3 

Never got around to buying another one, after... no matter how much I wanted one for Halo and Gears.


----------



## martin vegas

When my first xbox360 died I got a wii just for the resi games..bought a xbox360 again for the xbox live arcade games..getting a ps4 next week,i am  looking forward to it!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Alan Wake is on PC, lol. The only Xbox exclusives I care for are Gears of War and...some XBL exclusives like Shadow Complex. Not a huge Halo fan, though they're playable.


----------



## Accoun

Even better, the X360 "exclusives" that would interest me the most are... ports of Japanese arcade games, like Shmups and Tetris Grand Master (hence the quoting). Of course, they're almost all Japan-only and region locked, so I would have to import an NTSC-J console or mod one from the beginning. :-/


----------



## martin vegas

Looking forward to this!


----------



## gamefreak054

accoun said:


> Even better, the X360 "exclusives" that would interest me the most are... ports of Japanese arcade games, like Shmups and Tetris Grand Master (hence the quoting). Of course, they're almost all Japan-only and region locked, so I would have to import an NTSC-J console or mod one from the beginning. :-/


 
 Dodonpachi is not region locked though if your into shmups. Though I read somewhere you made need an old xbox or something. I know you can get soukygurentai on PS3 with no region problems.


----------



## Zombie_X

Yo,
  
 I don't know if anyone has tried, but USB DAC's work on the PS4 from the USB outputs. The PS4 see's the DAC as a headphone. I tried with my Headstreamer and V800, both worked great. In fact it sounds cleaner than using optical.


----------



## conquerator2

zombie_x said:


> Yo,
> 
> I don't know if anyone has tried, but USB DAC's work on the PS4 from the USB outputs. The PS4 see's the DAC as a headphone. I tried with my Headstreamer and V800, both worked great. In fact it sounds cleaner than using optical.




What???!!! That's great news.
So can we like use DSD USB DACs with it or maybe just regular ones for music.
Will a USB capable Dolby Headphone DAC work?
This would be a great advantage for some, as it'd enable the manufacturers to make some USB DACs or some users to use these.
Could be a significant advantage over the One if it can't do that...


----------



## Zombie_X

Indeed. It works perfectly fine, though the Headstreamer is quite as it lacks a physical potentiometer. I tried with the Audioengine D1 and DragonFly. Both worked great. The Headstreamer and DragonFly didn't get that loud though. Skip running from optical, this method is way better. Pair the PS4 with a good USB DAC and you're in the money.
  
 USB will only output stereo of course but a Dolby DAC would work, you just won't have a 5.1 or 7.1 signal being fed to the DAC.
  
 So using the Schiit Modi/Magni is a reality on this bad boy. I haven't tested it myself, but I believe it will work. All USB DAC's should work fine.
  
 Right now I have my V200 and V800 next to my PS4 and I was using it while playing Infamous. The V800+V200 gets loud as hell and sounds darned good.


----------



## martin vegas

zombie_x said:


> Indeed. It works perfectly fine, though the Headstreamer is quite as it lacks a physical potentiometer. I tried with the Audioengine D1 and DragonFly. Both worked great. The Headstreamer and DragonFly didn't get that loud though. Skip running from optical, this method is way better. Pair the PS4 with a good USB DAC and you're in the money.
> 
> USB will only output stereo of course but a Dolby DAC would work, you just won't have a 5.1 or 7.1 signal being fed to the DAC.
> 
> ...


 

 Have you tried watching a blue ray film through your dac..if so, did you get sound?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Pretty sure the usb sound output is as generic as can be. Probably 16bit/44khz. The ps4 won't read what it is, or allow the devices drivers to be installed. It will de I ault to geberic sound drivers. 

Wisest choice would be using a dac with an optical input, for those that are against gaming devices.


----------



## Zombie_X

martin vegas said:


> Have you tried watching a blue ray film through your dac..if so, did you get sound?


 
  
 Hey,
  
 Yes, audio output works perfectly fine. I watched Underworld 2 and The Wolfman. I got sound from both. Even though The Wolfman was outputting in DTS, the Headstreamer still decoded it fine, though I recommend LPCM output for this.
  
 I believe the PS4 uses a generic driver, like Windows. It does sound really good though. I get 44k, 48k, and 96k (on Nordic Sound Blu-Ray). 
  
 Try it before you knock it. I can't stress it enough that an amp is essential when using a DAC with no physical POT. The Headstreamer is quite while the V800 is loud.


----------



## Petes67bird

Thanks 

Sent from my LG-E980 using Tapatalk


----------



## martin vegas

zombie_x said:


> Hey,
> 
> Yes, audio output works perfectly fine. I watched Underworld 2 and The Wolfman. I got sound from both. Even though The Wolfman was outputting in DTS, the Headstreamer still decoded it fine, though I recommend LPCM output for this.
> 
> ...


 

 Got myself a ps4 today, it came with infamous second son..everything works fine with my dac..I am impressed with the ps4..it's simple to use..good graphics and sound and the controllers rechargeable.. p.s called mrmartinvegas on psn if anyone wants to add me!


----------



## martin vegas




----------



## maxipad

I love my PS4 and its hardware power.  I already owned a Vita so it made sense as well.  The controller is most of what swayed me.  The 1080p vs 900p of the xbox one doesn't really matter to me since I normally play on a 720p tv.


----------



## thatBeatsguy

maxipad said:


> I love my PS4 and its hardware power.  I already owned a Vita so it made sense as well.  The controller is most of what swayed me.  The 1080p vs 900p of the xbox one doesn't really matter to me since I normally play on a 720p tv.


 
 LOL. You're missing out on all the wonders of Full HD!


----------



## maxipad

thatbeatsguy said:


> LOL. You're missing out on all the wonders of Full HD!


 
 Haha.  Hooked it up to my 1080p computer monitor via a HDMI-DVI adapter and used the optical out to use my HD800s with it.  Can't really tell much if any difference.


----------



## thatBeatsguy

maxipad said:


> Haha.  Hooked it up to my 1080p computer monitor via a HDMI-DVI adapter and used the optical out to use my HD800s with it.  *Can't really tell much if any difference.  *


 
 LOL. Well, "good for you!" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 'Least you aren't swayed by FHD or UHD...unlike my dad who bought a 55-inch 4K smart TV which isn't really 'smart' in the general sense. Thanks to the now-massive screen size, I can't play on the HTPC properly anymore. Thanks Dad.


----------



## maxipad

thatbeatsguy said:


> LOL. Well, "good for you!"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Haha that's hilarious.  I had a guy at best buy try and sell me a 4K tv, but I asked him if he thought content providers will ever have the bandwidth to be able to broadcast 4k, and he said quietly "no, but that's not really a selling point"  It's really cool if you have a 4k camcorder though.  I'm sure it's putting a HTPC through the wringer though.


----------



## thatBeatsguy

maxipad said:


> Haha that's hilarious.  I had a guy at best buy try and sell me a 4K tv, but I asked him if he thought content providers will ever have the bandwidth to be able to broadcast 4k, and he said quietly "no, but that's not really a selling point"  *It's really cool if you have a 4k camcorder though.  I'm sure it's putting a HTPC through the wringer though.*


 
 I heard that the Galaxy Note 3 is capable of recording 4K video (but I don't think it's capable of *playing it*). So far, that's the only thing I know that could record 4K video. But in my case, playing 4K video on the HTPC wouldn't put it "through the ringer," considering it's got some pretty nasty specs (which I cannot disclose at the moment). Since I use it for gaming (as well as playing movies on 1080p Bluray), I guess I would call it an HGTPC, if you catch my drift.


----------



## Kneel2Galvatron

Spec's are nothing without good games. Xbox One seems to have the better titles.


----------



## Change is Good

For now...


----------



## Kneel2Galvatron

I just don't think the PS4 has enough exclusives. If the E3 rumors are true about the PS4 lineup, then Xbox should still have the advantage with game titles.


----------



## Change is Good

Yea... in 720p...


----------



## Kneel2Galvatron

Tomb Raider looked good and BF4 but Titan Fall looks like a 360 game. I'm def disappointed so far with the graphics. Gaming with my friends was the most important thing for me and exclusive titles. So I will just have to over look the resolution for now. If I was gaming alone then a PS4 would have been my choice.


----------



## conquerator2

I predict PS4 will have a lot more exclusives in the long run. It has many 1st party studios to back them up. It's been like that in the Last Gen too.


----------



## martin vegas

kneel2galvatron said:


> Tomb Raider looked good and BF4 but Titan Fall looks like a 360 game. I'm def disappointed so far with the graphics. Gaming with my friends was the most important thing for me and exclusive titles. So I will just have to over look the resolution for now. If I was gaming alone then a PS4 would have been my choice.


 

 I think titanfall looked like that because it's coming out on the xbox360..dead rising 3 looked good with all them zombies on screen at once..i have a ps4 but will probably get a xbox one aswell in the future!


----------



## thisissparta

I don't see any reason to buy an XBone. Lol. After PS4 slim is released of before it's going to be released in the market I'll probably buy one.


----------



## Zombie_X

I'll only buy an Xbox One once it has appealing titles and the system itself is cheaper.


----------



## martin vegas

zombie_x said:


> I'll only buy an Xbox One once it has appealing titles and the system itself is cheaper.


 

 I agree, but dead rising 3 looks good..i wish it was on the ps4!


----------



## Change is Good

martin vegas said:


> I agree, but *dead rising 3* looks good..*i wish it was on the ps4*!


 
  
 Xbox can keep Dead Rising 3...
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






  
  
 Nuff said...


----------



## thisissparta

I heard that Sony is making Last of Us 2


----------



## thatBeatsguy

thisissparta said:


> I heard that Sony is making Last of Us 2


 
 It's about time. I saw playthroughs of the original game and the DLC side-story, and I have to say, I'm impressed. Sad to say it's an exclusive game since I'm not much of a console gamer...


----------



## martin vegas




----------



## Accoun

http://news.xbox.com/2014/05/xbox-delivering-more-choices

Welp, so much for Kinect being "an important part of Xbox One". 
Also, (some) media apps will be usable without Gold and Games With Gold on Xbone will need an active subscription to be played.


----------



## martin vegas

The watchdogs looks better on xbox one or ps4 debate..first video is a xbox one 1080p video which is darker and the second one is a ps4 720p video which is a lot brighter..i have been watching different videos on the two systems all day..it looks good on xbox one with the darker visuals but the ps4 is just a lot smoother and a lot less blurry and doesn't draw things from a distance or a have problems drawing shadows from a distance or have any screen tear like the xbox one does..saying that i would happily play on either one of them. they even did a good job of the last gen versions of watchdogs!


----------



## conquerator2

^ well, no surprises there!
Looking forward to digital foundry


----------



## martin vegas

conquerator2 said:


> ^ well, no surprises there!
> Looking forward to digital foundry


 
 Xbox 360 version looks decent!


----------



## Silent Xaxal

PS4, because it has just enough things (In terms of function, hardware, and games) to set it apart from the XONE (Which I feel is pretty much a gaming PC with a custom OS and Xbox Branding.)


----------



## Accoun

So, watching E3? If anyone asked me,
  
 (quote from another thread)
  


> Originally Posted by *Accoun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> [....] the conference wasn't great. Sunset Overdrive didn't look that great gameplay-wise, but it had a great trailer.
> That
> ...


----------



## conquerator2

Not too bad but wasn't all that impressed. Some interesting games.I'd give it a 7. Above average but not amazing either.


----------



## martin vegas

The only game I am bothered about is the division but it's not coming out until 2015!


----------



## Change is Good

I'm hyped about Mortal Kombat X.... sschiiiiiiit!


----------



## Silent Xaxal

change is good said:


> Xbox can keep Dead Rising 3...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
 Not enough of a justification. Besides, one is mindless fun and the other is supposed to be compelling storytelling, and there is a place for both.


----------



## Sense

I picked up an Xbox one for the TV pass through and the media features as well as games. 

I use to be a big gamer but now that I'm in my 30s I need a system to be more than just a game machine to justify the purchase. 

Me and my fiancé use the voice commands to change channels, pause shows, fast forward shows etc etc. it's also nice to have Skype right there in your living room and it's pretty cool how it zooms in and pans around to follow the person who is talking on video calls. 

Outside of that, it plays games. Most of the games on PS4 are also on Xbox and I personally don't see any real difference in the graphics between the two. I am about 3-4 feet further than I should be from a 65 inch TV...but all the games seem to look really good. 

All that said...I don't think either system represents a big enough leap over last generation. Hopefully in a few years we'll get to see some games that last gen wouldn't have been able to handle.


----------



## conquerator2

I was under the assumption that most people choose their console based on the exclusive games it has. At least I do, multiplatforms are just a nice bonus for me!


----------



## martin vegas

sense said:


> I picked up an Xbox one for the TV pass through and the media features as well as games.
> 
> I use to be a big gamer but now that I'm in my 30s I need a system to be more than just a game machine to justify the purchase.
> 
> ...


 

 You can control the ps4 by voice aswell..it was the 1080p games that swayed me over to the ps4..i couldn't see the point of having a pass through, I have my ps4 with my monitor and my virgin media box through my tv, both in the bedroom..i have a pc for Skype.. I think the ps4 is a big enough leap over last gen with 1080p games running at 60fps..last gen games ran at 720p at 30fps! P.s Outlast is on xbox one now!


----------



## Sense

martin vegas said:


> sense said:
> 
> 
> > I picked up an Xbox one for the TV pass through and the media features as well as games.
> ...




Different use cases. I have my system in a family room. It's my all in one box to control everything entertainment and the voice control does just that, controls everything. 

Viewing distance to be able to see 1080p on a 65 inch tv is about 10-12 feet max distance from the TV. Max viewing distance to see the benefits if 1080p on a 42 inch tv is 6-8 feet away. 

For me personally...I'm too far away from the TV to enjoy all that it can do visually. To me, so far this generation is a resolution bump that most people can't physically see from their viewing distance and a frame rate jump. Overall visual presentation of the games just isn't the jump that was PS2-PS3 or xbox to 360. 

We can talk about FPS and resolution till the cows come home...that doesn't change the fact that it's a benchmark for this generation that will be irrelevant once all games on all systems run at those frame rates and resolution. That will take time for devs to get use to making games on both systems....but these things will still be lost on most people due to their set up and viewing distance. 

I still use the Xbox more to control my family room media needs rather then to play games. I guess I'm old...I don't have time to play games as much anymore. That's why I choose the Xbox one...I needed more functionality to justify paying for another game system.


----------



## Sense

Hmmm just watched a video for Outlast...never heard of it before. I might have to check it out.

To add to what I wrote above...looking at The Division gameplay videos...you can already see that next year is the year we are going to appreciate what these next gen systems can do more so than this year.


----------



## Lazyboy420x

PS4. Better hardware is the selling point for me. This will show down the line,and even shows now. Also like the exclusives. And how pretty they look. Nothing on the Xbox One really interests me now. But I'll for sure get it down the line to play games like Halo. But for the time being PS4 has the better version of multiplats and there are few games out now,or coming out soon that I'm dying to play. I do really want the upcoming Halo Master Chief Collection though. And Quantum Break. Those can wait though.


----------



## NickLondon

Went with the PS4 because everyone I know plays on it, and because of the superior hardware.


----------



## Sense

nicklondon said:


> Went with the PS4 because everyone I know plays on it.




That's the best reason I've ever heard to pick one over another


----------



## kyuuketsuki

sense said:


> That's the best reason I've ever heard to pick one over another


 
  
 I will be getting a PS4 and Wii U next year. Why? PS4 has all the games I want coming on it. (Mostly JRPGs, like the newest Tales game) and the Wii U for Shin Megami Tensei v Fire Emblem. At this point I buy systems for games, nothing more. All the games I'd want on XBone I can get on PC...


----------



## Lazyboy420x

nicklondon said:


> Went with the PS4 because everyone I know plays on it, and because of the superior hardware.



Also looking forward to VR.


----------



## Amish

I bought both at release. Of the two I think The PS4 is the better gaming console but I'm happy with both units. Neither one of them see much use with the lack of quality games that have released so far.


----------



## martin vegas

amish said:


> I bought both at release. Of the two I think The PS4 is the better gaming console but I'm happy with both units. Neither one of them see much use with the lack of quality games that have released so far.


 

 I agree,we should be playing drive club now..end up just going back to bf4..even the last of us is a month away!


----------



## Lazyboy420x

martin vegas said:


> I agree,we should be playing drive club now..end up just going back to bf4..even the last of us is a month away!



I don't like Battlefield for some reason. However I love COD Ghosts. Guess I just have bad tastes in games..


----------



## martin vegas

lazyboy420x said:


> I don't like Battlefield for some reason. However I love COD Ghosts. Guess I just have bad tastes in games..


 

 Some people do like cod over battlefield..i have been playing battlefield since bad company 2, the last call of duty I enjoyed was call of duty 4 modern warfare..you will probably like destiny then!


----------



## Lazyboy420x

martin vegas said:


> Some people do like cod over battlefield..i have been playing battlefield since bad company 2, the last call of duty I enjoyed was call of duty 4 modern warfare..you will probably like destiny then!



I might. Halo is okay. Same type of game,made from the same people. But I'll have to play it when it comes out for sure. Besides there aren't very many games out yet for the PS4 so it's gonna be better than nothing


----------



## Amish

The one game I can't wait for is one I already played and finished on the ps3 and I'm buying it next month for the ps4 and can't wait. The last of us.


----------



## Amish

martin vegas said:


> I agree,we should be playing drive club now..end up just going back to bf4..even the last of us is a month away!


 

 Drive club is the reason I wanted the ps4 at release. I was bummed when they delayed it.


----------



## Lazyboy420x

amish said:


> Drive club is the reason I wanted the ps4 at release. I was bummed when they delayed it.



I was hoping we'd get The Order soon than later too.


----------



## scott5526

The Xbone has most of the games I want.  There's a few on the ps4 that I'd want to try like the Order, but I'm more bothered by all the exclusive content universal games get on the ps4. i.e. diablo 3 content and destiny early beta access.


----------



## Change is Good

Two words:

Finish Him!


----------



## Lazyboy420x

change is good said:


> Two words:
> 
> Finish Him!



Three words and a letter!

MORTAL KOMBAT X


----------



## thatBeatsguy

lazyboy420x said:


> Three words and a letter!
> 
> MORTAL KOMBAT X


 
 That's actually *two* words and a letter.
  
HEYYEYAAEYAAAEYAEYAA


----------



## Lazyboy420x

Whoops that's totally what I meant too :|


----------



## rhinech

If I had the money I will buy both. Otherwise I will go for the PS4 first because of the Naughty Dog!


----------



## NNate

After being an XBox user since the original, I think I'm ready for a change.  I'm a little tired of Halo at this point and I can't think of too many exclusive brands that MS has that'll keep me around.


----------



## nito

PS4 because of the Titles and familiarity with the controller.


----------



## martin vegas




----------



## Change is Good

I have two Destiny Beta codes for the PS4 if anyone is interested. *Must have a US account*


----------



## Riza Hawkeye

I'd get a PS4, mainly because of familiarity as well as the fact that non of the Xbox exclusives interest me that much.


----------



## Lazyboy420x

The Xbox One has 792p games. Never has there once been a 792p PS4 game. #pcmasterdouche


----------



## Axeslinger0u812

I got the XB1, and aside from the lack of games (for both), I've been pleased. Granted, I went from the 360 to the One, because I didn't want to get a new PS network bill. Lol. I'm excited as a whole for the next decade of console gaming. The Destiny beta is great fun, with intense "boss" battle moments for me already. Imagining what the next Fallout/Elder Scrolls games are like is crazy. Can't wait for Arkham Knight, the next CoD, The Witcher... So much greatness on the horizon.


----------



## jimador48

I have had both since launch day, I must say I use the xb1 a lot more then the ps4. I was a heavy ps3 user but after picking up the xb1 controller it just felt right. Right now both systems don't have any great games to brag about, I'm excited for halo collections, and next Gen gta5. I'd personally wait till later this year because I have a feeling Both will probably get a redesign if you haven't Bought one.


----------



## Change is Good

Four words:

The Last of Us


----------



## jimador48

Never played it on the ps3, but was thinking about it. I'm a big fps player.


----------



## Change is Good

Sorry to burst your bubble, but The Last of Us is NOT a first person shooter. 

What rock have you been living under? LoL

I kid, I kid,


----------



## jimador48

change is good said:


> Sorry to burst your bubble, but The Last of Us is NOT a first person shooter.
> 
> What rock have you been living under? LoL
> 
> I kid, I kid,




Lol 

I don't like story games that much, that's what I was trying to say haha

I just started the destiny beta 2mins ago


----------



## Change is Good

Ah! Gotcha lol

Destiny is, how can I say...

AAWWEESSOOMMEE!!


----------



## jimador48

change is good said:


> Ah! Gotcha lol
> 
> Destiny is, how can I say...
> 
> AAWWEESSOOMMEE!!




It's not that bad for an alpha build, it's fun with friends so far.


----------



## Lazyboy420x

jimador48 said:


> I have had both since launch day, I must say I use the xb1 a lot more then the ps4. I was a heavy ps3 user but after picking up the xb1 controller it just felt right. Right now both systems don't have any great games to brag about, I'm excited for halo collections, and next Gen gta5. I'd personally wait till later this year because I have a feeling Both will probably get a redesign if you haven't Bought one.



I kinda felt like they took a step back with the Xbox One controller. It just feels really cheap,the thumb sticks are microscopic and it's just not as good as the 360 controller IMO.
Of course I only demoed it in a store. There were two. One was about to fall apart. I guess it would get a lot of use in the store. But then again someone who plays a lot would be using it a lot more than that. Hope they all aren't that cheap. Haven't gotten to use a PS4 controller yet but I'm getting mine next month,hopefully it's more solid than the PS3 controller and XB1 controller and built tough like the 360.


----------



## Axeslinger0u812

lazyboy420x said:


> I kinda felt like they took a step back with the Xbox One controller. It just feels really cheap,the thumb sticks are microscopic and it's just not as good as the 360 controller IMO.
> Of course I only demoed it in a store. There were two. One was about to fall apart. I guess it would get a lot of use in the store. But then again someone who plays a lot would be using it a lot more than that. Hope they all aren't that cheap. Haven't gotten to use a PS4 controller yet but I'm getting mine next month,hopefully it's more solid than the PS3 controller and XB1 controller and built tough like the 360.




Agreed. The controller feels cheaper. While getting my ass handed to me on KI online, I gripped the controller super hard, and the controller shut off. This has happened three times, so it wasn't a fluke. Always during killer instinct, too. I don't play it much anymore. Lol.


----------



## p321p

PSN+ is cheaper compare to XBL Gold. Specs on the Ps4 is a bit better than the Xbox One. Sony has studios that can produce great 1st party games for them.


----------



## Replicant187

i'm gonna get Xbox One (comes out on Sep 4th in Japan) mostly because non of the PS exclusives interest me much but i really wannna play some X1 exclusives.


----------



## p321p

replicant187 said:


> i'm gonna get Xbox One (comes out on Sep 4th in Japan) mostly because non of the PS exclusives interest me much but i really wannna play some X1 exclusives.


 
 Yeah I get you. The Master Chief Collection is gonna be awesome! I had the Xbox 360 before my ps4, and Halo 3 got me introduced of the world of online multiplayer.


----------



## Change is Good

replicant187 said:


> i'm gonna get Xbox One (comes out on Sep 4th in Japan) mostly because *non of the PS exclusives interest me much* but i really wannna play some X1 exclusives.




I can say the same about the opposition...


----------



## martin vegas

change is good said:


> I can say the same about the opposition...


 

 I am looking forward to driveclub!


----------



## Replicant187

oh and EA Access thing seems very attractive, that's one of the many reasons i'll get X1.


----------



## Change is Good

martin vegas said:


> I am looking forward to driveclub!




Yesssss!


----------



## Lazyboy420x

change is good said:


> Yesssss!



Also looking forward to it! But when Gran Turismo 7 comes out I think people will forget all about it.


----------



## Lazyboy420x

axeslinger0u812 said:


> Agreed. The controller feels cheaper. While getting my ass handed to me on KI online, I gripped the controller super hard, and the controller shut off. This has happened three times, so it wasn't a fluke. Always during killer instinct, too. I don't play it much anymore. Lol.



Buttons and layout feel a bit weird too. IF it ain't broken don't fix it! Should have added the option to use the 360 controller with it.


----------



## martin vegas

lazyboy420x said:


> Also looking forward to it! But when Gran Turismo 7 comes out I think people will forget all about it.


 
 Driveclub looks like it's better to play than Gran turismo!


----------



## martin vegas

None of the next gen consoles can handle bf4 like a gaming pc can, sorry but a gaming pc is the only way to play bf4!


----------



## Lazyboy420x

martin vegas said:


> None of the next gen consoles can handle bf4 like a gaming pc can, sorry but a gaming pc is the only way to play bf4!



It's all a matter of how much you wanna spend.


----------



## goober-george

PS4. Playstation Plus is an amazing service and provides great value for Playstation owners. I own the PS4 and PS Vita and the PS Plus deals you get, more then exceeds the value for the 1 year membership you get for $50.


----------



## Zombie_X

Well I got all "next-gen" systems now (PS4, Xbox One, Wii U). They are all good with both their strengths and weaknesses. 
  
 Oh and Change hates me now. Most of my PS4 friends hate me because I bought an Xbone. You know what? I wanted the system for the games. So what if the hardware is inferior, the games matter more. Well what mainly pushed me is the Master Chief Collection... all teh Haloz in won disk..... To many game!


----------



## martin vegas

zombie_x said:


> Well I got all "next-gen" systems now (PS4, Xbox One, Wii U). They are all good with both their strengths and weaknesses.
> 
> Oh and Change hates me now. Most of my PS4 friends hate me because I bought an Xbone. You know what? I wanted the system for the games. So what if the hardware is inferior, the games matter more. Well what mainly pushed me is the Master Chief Collection... all teh Haloz in won disk..... To many game!


 
 I think you would love one of these!


----------



## martin vegas

A bit of resi news!


----------



## Change is Good

zombie_x said:


> Well I got all "next-gen" systems now (PS4, Xbox One, Wii U). They are all good with both their strengths and weaknesses.
> 
> Oh and Change hates me now. Most of my PS4 friends hate me because I bought an Xbone. You know what? I wanted the system for the games. So what if the hardware is inferior, the games matter more. Well what mainly pushed me is the Master Chief Collection... all teh Haloz in won disk..... To many game!




I don't hate you... I miss you... 

Stupid homewrecker Xbone... grrrr...


----------



## AxelCloris

Picked up a PS4 recently. It'll be here tomorrow. I'm joining the console owners club once again. Still prefer PC gaming to console but many friends only play on PS4 so it made sense to grab one for a few games. Gonna get my Destiny on next month and probably BF4 for the time being.


----------



## conquerator2

Don't forget adding more friends ppl. 
More friends to play with is always good.
ID: conquerator3


----------



## Zombie_X

Well I bought Premium for the Xbone version of BF4... $100 FOR BOTH SYSTEMS... Should be cross-buy!


----------



## Stillhart

Well, I've owned an Xbone since day one and a PS4 for a week.  So far, I can honestly say that I like the Xbone significantly better.  I am trying to think of a way to enumerate it without sounding like a "fanboy".  
  
 I think it's the little things that make the system just more fun and easier to use.  The main menu on the Xbone is much better looking and easier to navigate than the PS4 one.  The voice commands through the Kinect is amazingly useful, as is the auto-sign-in.  The multitasking works really well.  The snapping of apps is super handy.  I also like the controller better, as far as the start/select button layout and the triggers/bumpers.  Twitch implementation is much better on Xbone.  Oh and did I mention that turning my Xbox on (and off) also turns on (and off) my TV and AVR?  Holy hell, that's awesome.
  
 The PS4 does some things better, of course.  You don't need to spend extra money for an adapter to use a headset.  You can have chat through USB so you're not tethered to the controller.  Preloading/ordering games doesn't exist yet on Xbone.  The thumbsticks on the PS4 are a little better than the Xbone.
  
 Overall, it feels to me like the PS4 is very much a gaming-oriented device.  While you CAN do other things on it, it's not a great experience.  That includes major things like usability of the XMB.
  
 The Xbone, on the other hand, doesn't feel like it games any worse.  I know the PS4 is objectively more powerful, but it just doesn't seem noticeably better.  What the Xbox does do is make the whole user-experience much more pleasurable.  Updates have come like clockwork, once per month, and every one introduced noticeable QoL improvements.  
  
 Of course I don't regret owning either.  They both have their strengths and it'll be nice to pick the system that best suits a given title. The Xbox makes a much better living-room box and the PS4 is a better man-cave box.  If I had to pick one again on its own merits (disregarding what my friends are using), I'd pick the Xbox (with Kinect) easily.


----------



## martin vegas

stillhart said:


> Well, I've owned an Xbone since day one and a PS4 for a week.  So far, I can honestly say that I like the Xbone significantly better.  I am trying to think of a way to enumerate it without sounding like a "fanboy".
> 
> I think it's the little things that make the system just more fun and easier to use.  The main menu on the Xbone is much better looking and easier to navigate than the PS4 one.  The voice commands through the Kinect is amazingly useful, as is the auto-sign-in.  The multitasking works really well.  The snapping of apps is super handy.  I also like the controller better, as far as the start/select button layout and the triggers/bumpers.  Twitch implementation is much better on Xbone.  Oh and did I mention that turning my Xbox on (and off) also turns on (and off) my TV and AVR?  Holy hell, that's awesome.
> 
> ...


 

 Try infamous second son you will see what the ps4 is capable of..you can use voice commands on the ps4 aswell..you get used to the controller on the ps4!


----------



## adisib

Voted for PS4 before I realized the third option said neither. I would like to change my vote to neither.


----------



## Stillhart

martin vegas said:


> Try infamous second son you will see what the ps4 is capable of..you can use voice commands on the ps4 aswell..you get used to the controller on the ps4!


 
 Yeah, I really didn't like the first Infamous so I don't have much interest in Second Son.  I'll probably play it in a year when it's free on PS+ tho.  
  
 I have to say, as an older fellow who remembers playing text-only games, crazy graphics without fun game-play don't do anything for me.  Infamous and Ryze both have the same problem in my eyes.
  
 Thanks, I'll look into the voice commands on the PS4.  I assumed you needed the camera thing.
  
 And no.  I will not get used to the cheap feeling of the triggers or the HORRIBLE placement (and size) of the start button.  I'm sure I'd get used to it if I weren't swapping back and forth between the xbox controller, but as is... just no.


----------



## martin vegas

Not sure if you need the camera or not stillhart..I just use the controller for everything!


----------



## Eugguy

I'm thinking of buying a PS4 just so I can play one game. MLB THE SHOW. Everything else I don't mind on xbox.


----------



## conquerator2

stillhart said:


> Yeah, I really didn't like the first Infamous so I don't have much interest in Second Son.  I'll probably play it in a year when it's free on PS+ tho.
> 
> I have to say, as an older fellow who remembers playing text-only games, crazy graphics without fun game-play don't do anything for me.  *Infamous and Ryze both have the same problem in my eyes.*
> 
> ...


 
 I agree to a point. They both feel mor tech demoy than game but I'd never go as far as to compare them directly. Ryse is a bloody QTE fest that practically is a tech demo. Having played Infamous just now, at least gameplay wise, it's like comparing apples to oranges. Not the best story ever but not terrible either and the graphics are phenomenal.
 Bottom line is that Infamous manages being a game [story/gameplay/graphics] much better than Ryse and comparing them is kinda ridiculous, IMO...


----------



## Stillhart

conquerator2 said:


> I agree to a point. They both feel mor tech demoy than game but I'd never go as far as to compare them directly. Ryse is a bloody QTE fest that practically is a tech demo. Having played Infamous just now, at least gameplay wise, it's like comparing apples to oranges. Not the best story ever but not terrible either and the graphics are phenomenal.
> Bottom line is that Infamous manages being a game [story/gameplay/graphics] much better than Ryse and comparing them is kinda ridiculous, IMO...


 
 My point wasn't to directly compare them in any way except one:  I feel they're both mostly style over substance.  I only say that about Infamous because I just don't enjoy the gameplay.  
  
 I can see how you'd disagree if you enjoy the gameplay.  Whatever floats your boat.


----------



## conquerator2

stillhart said:


> My point wasn't to directly compare them in any way except one:  I feel they're both mostly style over substance.  I only say that about Infamous because I just don't enjoy the gameplay.
> 
> I can see how you'd disagree if you enjoy the gameplay.  Whatever floats your boat.


 
 Oh, I got the wring idea then.
 It seemed to me like you were comparing them more directly than you meant to.
 I'll say that gameplay wise, the series have not evolved all that much but it's nowhere repetitive as other games could be [or rehashed].
 If I had to rate them, Infamous 2 [9] would be at the top, then Infamous [8.5] and then Second Son [8].
 Then again, TLoU spoiled me story wise :/


----------



## martin vegas

conquerator2 said:


> I agree to a point. They both feel mor tech demoy than game but I'd never go as far as to compare them directly. Ryse is a bloody QTE fest that practically is a tech demo. Having played Infamous just now, at least gameplay wise, it's like comparing apples to oranges. Not the best story ever but not terrible either and the graphics are phenomenal.
> Bottom line is that Infamous manages being a game [story/gameplay/graphics] much better than Ryse and comparing them is kinda ridiculous, IMO...


 

 Infamous moves at sonic the hedgehog speed and still looks gaming pc quality..fogging and lighting effects are top notch..watchdogs could have been so much better on ps4..still think some ps4 games are held back by being on last gen platforms aswell!


----------



## Zombie_X

Well I'll say the Xbox One has a better UI front end and is far more media focused than the PS4. This is a plus for the Xbox. It feels smooth and responsive, while the PS4 feels more bogged at times (scrolling through games). I've been on the Xbox more because of it's multimedia capabilities, namely CD playback. Hack even Blu-rays looks better.
  
 But for games I am still far more of a Sony guy, but hot darn is Titanfall addicting! Ryse isn't that bad either (ended up buying it for $15 off GameFly). Ryse really shows the Xbox is more than capable but I blame lazy developers for not taking more time to iron out the working of their code on the system. That may expalin why some games run at a lower resolution on the system. Is this bad though? Heck no! The games are what matters.
  
 I submit, for your approval, the Game Room:


----------



## Change is Good

Nice setup, Zombie!
  
 Well, I'll be without my PS4 for about 2 weeks or so. I went ahead and opened a return authorization to get my HDMI port fixed, along with the left analogue stick on both controllers. Gotta' get all of this taken care of before Destiny comes out!


----------



## Zombie_X

I've been telling you it's not the HDMI man, it's a compatibility issue with your system and your TV. I know a few people who have this issue on one of their TV's, but on another TV the PS4 is fine. You shouldn't have sent it in as they'll send you a different PS4 back, not your original system. You'll have to redownlaod everything and install everything again. Plus there's no guarantee the issue will be fixed.
  
 Sony's repair service is bad like Microshafts. They send out tons of faulty system from their repair centers.


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Nice setup, Zombie!
> 
> Well, I'll be without my PS4 for about 2 weeks or so. I went ahead and opened a return authorization to get my HDMI port fixed, along with the left analogue stick on both controllers. Gotta' get all of this taken care of before Destiny comes out!


 
  
 So right when I get the console you send yours away. I see how it is. Maybe Zombie loves me enough to play some games.


----------



## Change is Good

I'll have to test it out on someone else's TV then. Still, both controllers need to go.

Double xp weekend on bf4. Bring ya asses!


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> I'll have to test it out on someone else's TV then. Still, both controllers need to go.
> 
> *Double xp weekend on bf4.* Bring ya asses!


 
 Damn youuuuuu!


----------



## Zombie_X

I'll be getting on BF4 PS4 soon. Just got done with an epic match on the X1. Went 27-4... my best yet on Conquest Hardcore.
  
 Axel, just add me. I'll play with ya.


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> Damn youuuuuu!


 
  

  


zombie_x said:


> I'll be getting on BF4 PS4 soon. Just got done with an epic match on the X1. Went 27-4... my best yet on Conquest Hardcore.
> 
> Axel, just add me. I'll play with ya.


 
  
 I forget your PSN ID, otherwise I would have.


----------



## martin vegas

zombie_x said:


> Well I'll say the Xbox One has a better UI front end and is far more media focused than the PS4. This is a plus for the Xbox. It feels smooth and responsive, while the PS4 feels more bogged at times (scrolling through games). I've been on the Xbox more because of it's multimedia capabilities, namely CD playback. Hack even Blu-rays looks better.
> 
> But for games I am still far more of a Sony guy, but hot darn is Titanfall addicting! Ryse isn't that bad either (ended up buying it for $15 off GameFly). Ryse really shows the Xbox is more than capable but I blame lazy developers for not taking more time to iron out the working of their code on the system. That may expalin why some games run at a lower resolution on the system. Is this bad though? Heck no! The games are what matters.
> 
> I submit, for your approval, the Game Room:


 

 I dj in Shibuya Tokyo and when I am there I check these places out it's paradise for game collectors, I have a mame arcade cabinet so don't really collect them. though I should..I stay at Maruyamacho Shibuya Ku they are buildings full of arcade machines all around that area!


----------



## martin vegas

zombie_x said:


> I'll be getting on BF4 PS4 soon. Just got done with an epic match on the X1. Went 27-4... my best yet on Conquest Hardcore.
> 
> Axel, just add me. I'll play with ya.


 
 I had a decent game last night but died a few times!


----------



## Zombie_X

Martin,
  
 I have a ton of Super Famicom games but my original Famicom library is small. I only recently started collecting Famicom but so far I have:
  

Akumajou Supeshiaru: Boku Dorakyura-kun
Akumajou Densetsu
Akumajou Dorakyura
Super Mario Bros.
Super Mario 3
  
 Thanks to the Retron5 I don't need to buy an AV Famicom, but I'd like one for collectors sake. It's an Android based emulation machine that uses the original carts.
  
 Axel, my PSN is SaiyanElite87


----------



## martin vegas

I think i will get myself one of these the next time I am in Tokyo.i have never owned a gamecube..I will buy a Japanese gamecube game every time I am in Tokyo,i want fzero all the resi games and that suda 51 game (can't remember the name), it can play copied games aswell!


----------



## Replicant187

haven't played BF4 yet. may check it out via EA Access once i got my X1.


----------



## AxelCloris

zombie_x said:


> Axel, my PSN is SaiyanElite87


 
  
 Request sent, my friend. I should be on tonight around 1:30AM EDT, as will Stillhart.


----------



## Zombie_X

martin vegas said:


> I think i will get myself one of these the next time I am in Tokyo.i have never owned a gamecube..I will buy a Japanese gamecube game every time I am in Tokyo,i want fzero all the resi games and that suda 51 game (can't remember the name), it can play copied games aswell!




  IMO those PanasonicQ Gamecubes are a mixed bag. They have tons of functionality but are expensive. You can buy a normal Gamecube and install a XenoGC chip for under $50.


----------



## martin vegas

zombie_x said:


> IMO those PanasonicQ Gamecubes are a mixed bag. They have tons of functionality but are expensive. You can buy a normal Gamecube and install a XenoGC chip for under $50.


 

 I already have a wii, i might just get something to play Japanese gamecube games on the wii..I know you can buy a disc that does this called the Datel FreeLoader but it's supposed to be a bit hit and miss!


----------



## Zombie_X

Th Freeloader no longer works on the Wii since they patched it out a long while back. Same goes for Action Replay.


----------



## Axeslinger0u812

martin vegas said:


> Infamous moves at sonic the hedgehog speed and still looks gaming pc quality..fogging and lighting effects are top notch..watchdogs could have been so much better on ps4..*still think some ps4 games are held back by being on last gen platforms aswell!*




That bold part is exactly my idea as well, but with all new-gen consoles. When I heard they were making a "next-gen only" assassins creed, I got a lot more excited than I did with the next tomb raider supposedly being available on last-gen also. 

Of course, then I saw what they were doing with Camille Luddington (the Lara croft actress) in regards to new motion-capture tech and thought...that game will be fine. Lol. Can't wait for that one.


----------



## superjawes

_Watch_Dogs_ is definitely being held back by old platforms...and that includes the XBOne and PS4!

/PCMasterRace

Kidding aside, it's pretty clear that the PC version of _Watch_Dogs_ suffered because the game was being touted for PS4/XBOne. I think part of it was unintentional (using settings to cope with console hardware), and part of it was intentional (like disabling the E3-demonstration graphics). I can't really blame them, though. The game was one of the first "next-gen" titles, and it wouldn't have helped Sony or Microsoft if the PC version looked significantly better.

As for the thread's overall conversation, I'm only considering is PS4, and that's primarily for _inFAMOUS_. Anything interesting for XBOne is available on PC. I still need a few more reasons before I can justify a PS4, though.


----------



## martin vegas

superjawes said:


> _Watch_Dogs_ is definitely being held back by old platforms...and that includes the XBOne and PS4!
> 
> /PCMasterRace
> 
> ...


 
 Heres another reason!


----------



## superjawes

Not a fan of racing games.


----------



## conquerator2

TLoU:R. There. Along with Infamous and there's more goodies coming.


----------



## Stillhart

superjawes said:


> _Watch_Dogs_ is definitely being held back by old platforms...and that includes the XBOne and PS4!
> 
> /PCMasterRace
> 
> ...


 
 I agree that the PS4 isn't particularly compelling right now.  The only reason I got one is that I got a fantastic deal on a used unit ($216).  For that price, it was worth it so I could play Destiny with my PS4 friends (I have more PS4 friends playing Destiny than Xbone friends) and play TLOU.  Eventually there will be more games making it interesting, but for now it's kinda meh.  No Man's Sky maybe... tho I think that's coming to PC too.


----------



## martin vegas

Quantum break looks good!


----------



## Stillhart

martin vegas said:


> Quantum break looks good!


 
 Full 8 minutes of gameplay here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGYnnd3E7jQ
  
 Also:  The next Tomb Raider is Xbox One exclusive.  :-O


----------



## martin vegas

stillhart said:


> Full 8 minutes of gameplay here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGYnnd3E7jQ
> 
> Also:  The next Tomb Raider is Xbox One exclusive.  :-O


 

 Thanks, I will watch it later..watching the ps4 gamescom now! p.s day z is coming to ps4, destiny comes to ps4 3 weeks early, a couple of limbo type games and a game called wild that looks good and a serial killer horror type game called pt ,not much else really!


----------



## Accoun

stillhart said:


> Also:  The next Tomb Raider is Xbox One exclusive.  :-O




I don't know how much the rest of you know about gaming culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in Hollywood where you can become successful by being an ***hole. If you screw someone over in gaming, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance. 

 What this means is the PlayStation public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase Rise of the Tomb Raider for Xbox One, nor will they purchase any of Square's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Square has alienated an entire market with this move.

 Square, publicly apologize and announce Rise of the Tomb Raider for PS4 or you can kiss your business goodbye.


----------



## superjawes

accoun said:


> I don't know how much the rest of you know about gaming culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in Hollywood where you can become successful by being an ***hole. If you screw someone over in gaming, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.
> 
> What this means is the PlayStation public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase Rise of the Tomb Raider for Xbox One, nor will they purchase any of Square's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Square has alienated an entire market with this move.
> 
> Square, publicly apologize and announce Rise of the Tomb Raider for PS4 or you can kiss your business goodbye.


1. I think you're putting waaaay too much emphasis on this. Gamers might not like it, but some will just wait and others will get it on XBOne. I doubt many will follow through on a boycott of all Square Enix products. Square was putting games on different consoles long before they signed exclusivity to Sony, and that agreement ended some time ago.

2. I don't know what the split is, but I have a feeling that _Tomb Raider_ is probably a bigger deal in Western markets. If they announced XBOne exclusivity for a _Final Fantasy_ game, that would be a different story.

3. Gamers get screwed over _all the time_ and continue to make the same mistakes. Ask anyone who preordered _SimCity_ or _Aliens: Colonial Marines_...


----------



## Stillhart

accoun said:


> I don't know how much the rest of you know about gaming culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in Hollywood where you can become successful by being an ***hole. If you screw someone over in gaming, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.
> 
> What this means is the PlayStation public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase Rise of the Tomb Raider for Xbox One, nor will they purchase any of Square's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Square has alienated an entire market with this move.
> 
> Square, publicly apologize and announce Rise of the Tomb Raider for PS4 or you can kiss your business goodbye.


 
 I think you put way too much stock in the PS vs Xbox thing.  Anyone who really wants to play this game will have well over a year to save up for an Xbox.  This ******** console war is ridiculous.  Get both and this isn't an issue.  
  
 Boycotting all Square Enix games because it's not exclusive to the console you own is ridiculous.  Are you boycotting Bungie for only having the Destiny alpha on PS4?  No?  Is that because you have a PS4?  How is this any different?


----------



## Change is Good

Bloodborne


----------



## conquerator2

Yeah Destiny Alpha is the key word... If it was Tomb Raider Alpha/demo that would have been a whole different thing... But it's a buyout of a whole game that's part of a series... I still call it scum


----------



## Change is Good

And scum it is, very much. Save up my money for a year to get an Xbox just to play Tomb Raider? Even if I did want to play it, I would pass. No way would I fall into the trap of what Microsoft is trying to do, which is force fans of certain gaming markets to buy their product. If one were to support that strategy, it only opens it up for the rest of the other companies to follow suit. Hell no... wait... Hell *** no...


----------



## Change is Good

I wonder how many Xbox supporters there would still be if Microsoft stuck to its original strategy. People criticized, and Microsoft were the ones forced to make changes.


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> I wonder how many Xbox supporters there would still be if Microsoft stuck to its original strategy. People criticized, and Microsoft were the ones forced to make changes.


 
  
 I preferred the One before the changes. The next gen had better have a completely disc-less option for people like myself who don't want the physical media. I could probably save some money not paying for the Blu-Ray player that's built in to the current consoles, or at least get a larger hard drive in exchange. The biggest thing about the Xbox One that I liked was the family sharing feature. If the PS4 changes coming in the 2.0 update are as I imagine, the PS4 will take a huge leap over the Xbox in my book.
  
 If only the PS4 controller was a bit smaller. It gets a tad uncomfortable after a while. Not so much that I have to stop, but enough to make it obvious that it's irritating.


----------



## superjawes

change is good said:


> And scum it is, very much. Save up my money for a year to get an Xbox just to play Tomb Raider? Even if I did want to play it, I would pass. No way would I fall into the trap of what Microsoft is trying to do, which is force fans of certain gaming markets to buy their product. If one were to support that strategy, it only opens it up for the rest of the other companies to follow suit. Hell no... wait... Hell *** no...


Has everyone seriously forgotten the long run of Square Enix titles that were only available for PlayStation? How about Capcom? How about a little third party title called _Metal Gear Solid 4_?

Third-party exclusives is nothing new, but apparently now that Microsoft has one it's a big f-ing deal...


----------



## Change is Good

superjawes said:


> Has everyone seriously forgotten the long run of Square Enix titles that were only available for PlayStation? How about Capcom? How about a little third party title called _Metal Gear Solid 4_?
> 
> Third-party exclusives is nothing new, but apparently now that Microsoft has one it's a big f-ing deal...




Third party exclusives is an issue when a SERIES gets turned into an exclusive. How would you feel if, let's say, Sony bought exclusive rights to Assassin's Creed? Riiiiight... all hell would break loose.

*disclaimer* I am no fan of either series


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> And scum it is, very much. Save up my money for a year to get an Xbox just to play Tomb Raider? Even if I did want to play it, I would pass. No way would I fall into the trap of what Microsoft is trying to do, which is force fans of certain gaming markets to buy their product. If one were to support that strategy, it only opens it up for the rest of the other companies to follow suit. Hell no... wait... Hell *** no...


 
 What?  You think by xmas next year TR will be the only reason to have an Xbox?  Comon... this post makes no sense.  This isn't the first exclusive in the history of gaming, guys.  It's not a scum move, it's just one more in a laundry list of exclusives.  Remember when Final Fantasy was exclusive to PS for three generations?  What makes TR different from that?


----------



## superjawes

change is good said:


> Third party exclusives is an issue when a SERIES gets turned into an exclusive. How would you feel if, let's say, Sony bought exclusive rights to Assassin's Creed? Riiiiight... all hell would break loose.
> 
> *disclaimer* I am no fan of either series


I'd say that's business, and if I really wanted to play _Assassin's Creed_, I'd get a PS4. Also, it makes more sense for a SERIES to be turned into an exclusive so customers don't have to buy a whole new console for a one-off exclusive.

And gamers would whine for a while, but again, the vast majority will either lose interest or buy the console anyway. We're also talking about two series that have been around for some time, so it's safe to assume that a core audience has the cash to buy both systems if they "need" to.

EDIT: And on the topic of _Tomb Raider_ specifically, the last title seems to have sold more copies in the UK and US than in Japan...those are two big markets where consumers are more likely to own Microsoft systems than Sony ones. What a horrible business move :rolleyes:


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> What?  You think by xmas next year TR will be the only reason to have an Xbox?  Comon... this post makes no sense.  This isn't the first exclusive in the history of gaming, guys.  It's not a scum move, it's just one more in a laundry list of exclusives.  Remember when Final Fantasy was exclusive to PS for three generations?  What makes TR different from that?




Read prior post


----------



## Change is Good

superjawes said:


> I'd say that's business, and if I really wanted to play _Assassin's Creed_, I'd get a PS4. Also, it makes more sense for a SERIES to be turned into an exclusive so customers don't have to buy a whole new console for a one-off exclusive.
> 
> And gamers would whine for a while, but again, the vast majority will either lose interest or buy the console anyway. We're also talking about two series that have been around for some time, so it's safe to assume that a core audience has the cash to buy both systems if they "need" to.




My argument is that if it is a multi-platform series, leave it the *** the way it is. No one-off exclusive, no series turnover.

I, for one, will not "need" to get both. End of story...


----------



## conquerator2

change is good said:


> Read prior post




+1. Should have either been exclusive from the start or not at all.
But no M$ felt like throwing money and boy a lot of money that must have been, considering that Tomb Raider definitive edition looked, ran and sold better on the PS4...


----------



## Stillhart

conquerator2 said:


> +1. Should have either been exclusive from the start or not at all.
> But no M$ felt like throwing money and boy a lot of money that must have been, considering that Tomb Raider definitive edition looked, ran and sold better on the PS4...


 
 I'm having this discussion in multiple places.  I honestly don't understand how there's some distinction between TR as an exclusive and any other exclusive.  I hear what you're saying (because you assume it wasn't exclusive then it became exclusive) but I don't understand it (since any exclusive game is bad for people who don't have that platform, whether it was or wasn't before).
  
 The easy solution to this is to own both (or all, if you count Wii U and PC) platforms.  Any single one will lock you out of options and you'll always find a reason to be pissed about something.  I think it's great that they gave more than a year's notice on this move.  That way people really can save up.  There are plenty of great Xbox exclusives already that will make owning one worthwhile.  By this time next year, there will be even more.  By the time TR comes out, it'll be a no-brainer.
  
 And I know not everyone can afford multiple systems.  I get it.  But saving $30/mo will get you a new Xbox in just over a year.  That's not really all that much...


----------



## Change is Good

Stillhart,

 The point here is that Microsoft is trying to force sales of their product onto the fans of the Tomb Raider series, which was multiplatform to begin with and arguably more popular on PlayStation platform.

 Some of us look at it as a scum move on their part, because they basically had to pay a ridiculous amount to do so. You don't see it that way? Okay, so be it... we respectfully disagree.


----------



## conquerator2

I was also looking at it from the story perspective. 
You don't cut it off halfway through only to continue on just one single platform... 
That just prevents everyone who started it on PS4/PC from finishing it.


----------



## Axeslinger0u812

As a huge fan of the Tomb Raider series, I'm both relieved that I already have an xb1, and sad at the same time. I dislike console exclusivity in general. While the optimization will be as good as it can be sticking with one console, and consoles always have exclusives, it's still something that bothers me. I get it if the consoles can't handle the port, such as ps/x360-wii was, but come on. 

Still...beyond stoked for the next tomb raider, lol. I might've bought a PS4 for it.


----------



## Change is Good

axeslinger0u812 said:


> As a huge fan of the Tomb Raider series, I'm both relieved that I already have an xb1, and sad at the same time. I dislike console exclusivity in general. While the optimization will be as good as it can be sticking with one console, and consoles always have exclusives, it's still something that bothers me. I get it if the consoles can't handle the port, such as ps/x360-wii was, but come on.
> 
> Still...beyond stoked for the next tomb raider, lol. I might've bought a PS4 for it.


 
  
 It's all good. I'm just glad I'm not a fan, because then it definitely would not sit well with me. I would then be one of those who would be forced to buy the other console, just to continue my TR experience.
  
 EIther way, I'm stoked for one PS exclusive, in particular, due out in March...
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## conquerator2

change is good said:


> It's all good. I'm just glad I'm not a fan, because then it definitely would not sit well with me. I would then be one of those who would be forced to buy the other console, just to continue my TR experience.
> 
> EIther way, I'm stoked for one PS exclusive, in particular, due out in March...
> 
> ...




Seems like the next Silent Hill, codeveloped by Kojima-san might be a PS4 exclusive too.
I never played any Silent Hill but damn if I won't this time ;P


----------



## Axeslinger0u812

conquerator2 said:


> Seems like the next Silent Hill, codeveloped by Kojima-san might be a PS4 exclusive too.
> I never played any Silent Hill but damn if I won't this time ;P




Yeah. That's a game I'll be sad to not be able to play. Maybe getting del toro involved will gain some interest in a third movie, with him at the helm. I thought the first movie was vastly underrated. The second one was pretty bad, but had some moments here and there. If he made one though.... It couldn't be bad. There's too much there for him to play with.


----------



## Stillhart

Everyone can un-bunch their panties:  Tomb Raider timed exclusive confirmed.


----------



## martin vegas

stillhart said:


> Everyone can un-bunch their panties:  Tomb Raider timed exclusive confirmed.


 

 Will you be buying it at launch or waiting for the ps4 version?


----------



## Stillhart

martin vegas said:


> Will you be buying it at launch or waiting for the ps4 version?


 
  
 TR is a great example of a game where there's no reason to buy it right away.  It's single player, there's no falling behind your friends levels or missing out on fun co-op action.  Buy it when you're ready and the experience will be the exact same.
  
 So unless I'm really bored and have no games to play when it comes out, I'll likely be waiting for it to go on sale.  Probably the Steam Summer Sale.  If I'm going to wait to play it, I'll play it on the best platform:  PC.


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> Everyone can un-bunch their panties:  Tomb Raider timed exclusive confirmed.




Woop woooop!

*yawn*


----------



## Music Alchemist

PS4, definitely. I've been a PlayStation guy since 1997 and have only played an Xbox for a few minutes in my life.
  
 The only reason I would get the Xbox One is for the exclusive games - like Killer Instinct!


----------



## Replicant187

change is good said:


> Stillhart,
> 
> The point here is that Microsoft is trying to force sales of their product onto the fans of the Tomb Raider series, which was multiplatform to begin with and arguably more popular on PlayStation platform.
> 
> Some of us look at it as a scum move on their part, because they basically had to pay a ridiculous amount to do so. You don't see it that way? Okay, so be it... we respectfully disagree.


 
   
 Sony did the same thing back then but i guess it's ok because it's Sony.
  
 Quote:


> In September 1997, Sony Computer Entertainment America signed a deal with Eidos to make console releases for the Tomb Raider franchise exclusive to the PlayStation, preventing the Sega Saturn or the Nintendo 64 from having any _Tomb Raider_ game released for it until 2000, a deal that would prove very beneficial to Sony both in terms of revenue dollars and also in further cementing the PlayStation's growing reputation as the go-to system for must-have exclusive titles.


----------



## Change is Good

^Oh snap! Shame on Sony! 

Site your source, BTW


----------



## Replicant187

change is good said:


> ^Oh snap! Shame on Sony!
> 
> Site your source, BTW


 
  
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Sony+Computer+Entertainment+America+Signs+Exclusive+Deal+with+Eidos...-a019760956
  
  
 Tomb Raider series was multiplatform to begin with and became more popular on PlayStation platform because Sony forced sales of their product onto the fans of the Tomb Raider series.
  
 the simple truth is that if this all went down with "Xbox" replaced by "PlayStation", the media and reactions would be completely different and poeple would be sharing completely different convictions. it's why i just don't bother much anymore with the stupidity.


----------



## Change is Good

I was unaware that Sony pulled such a move, but maybe the failure of the N64 may have had much to do with it?

In all honesty, I'm a simple gamer. I don't need much to keep me happy. Give me a shooter, a crime sandbox, an RPG, a horror game, and maybe a sports game or two. And, oh yeah, a high speed racing game too!

A handful of games should be more than enough for me. Last gen, I had a backlog of about 25-30 games that I never got around to playing.


----------



## alv4426

N64 was NOT a failure


----------



## Change is Good

I'm talking about how it failed to meet Nintendo's standards in sales... not the quality of the console, itself. Isn't that when Nintendo began to take a back seat in the conslole war? Resulting in major failure, by their own standards set by the SNES?


----------



## Change is Good

If true, it would make sense why they didn't get into a bidding war with Sony .

Edit: Please correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm only speaking off memory (which isn't quite what it used to be), not research.


----------



## conquerator2

The reason why everyone is down on M$ is because they tried to pull the whole DRM thing.... That was a dicky move IMO and even though I didn't like M$ before, I now like them even less. Hardware specs and exclusives notwithstanding.


----------



## superjawes

conquerator2 said:


> The reason why everyone is down on M$ is because they tried to pull the whole DRM thing.... That was a dicky move IMO and even though I didn't like M$ before, I now like them even less. Hardware specs and exclusives notwithstanding.


If you're older than 10, please stop using "M$" to refer to Microsoft.

More importantly, the DRM idea is going to come back to consoles. Microsoft sees it coming, I see it coming, anyone who has dealt with the BS on PC sees it coming, and I'm sure Sony sees it coming, too. MS was just too soon on presenting their plan, IMO, and actually, they added a bunch of useful features to digital distribution that would have allowed sharing games within families. When they dropped the online requirements, I remember several people being upset about losing those additional features.

Yes, it was too soon for the market, especially since disks are still king, but there's no reason to continue crucifying a company for a policy that they changed.


----------



## conquerator2

A policy they had to change, otherwise Xbone would have been a total flop 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 M$ has a nice zing to it and I like it so.... No, sorry


----------



## Change is Good

superjawes said:


> If you're older than 10, please stop using "M$" to refer to Microsoft.




Really?!? LoL


----------



## Army-Firedawg

Way late to the whole thing but I would and did purchase the PS4. Not because of a slightly faster IPU or whatever but because I had a 360 and PS3 only thing I used the 360 for really was for Netflix etc... so I let my Gold membership expire then I learned I had to have that just to watch the services I pay for BS next day I traded everything xbox related in for a PS4 (I'm aware they NOW no longer require gold to watch your services but much to late for me). Also other than that garbage I really didn't care to much for Microsofts interface though I did love the avatar aspect the blocks really didn't work for me. Next and prob. the second largest factor was my friends. A vast majority of the people I know/hangout with were also getting the PS4 so that worked out nicely.
 Now that the consoles have been out for almost a year I really love my PS4 had a few connectivity problems early on but that quickly got fixed. I LOVE the simplicity and ease of use for the chat feature all my friends can talk to each other even though we're playing different game I love that. The same feature is on XBOX but is for some reason way more complicated (A youtuber I watch, Drift0r, did a exact representation on this in one of his videos). Also the PS4 was way easier to place being not necessarily more erginomical but slimmer I suppose than the blocky one. The cameras between the two systems are about exactly the same to me. But this is my 2 cents I've really enjoyed the 4 and have zero regrets with my purchase. ALSO on a side note I love that I can plug ANY headphones into the controller of my 4 and voila way better soundstage than the marketing gaming headphones claim they have, on the xbox's you have to have a stupid adaptor piece.


----------



## Lazyboy420x

stillhart said:


> Full 8 minutes of gameplay here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGYnnd3E7jQ
> 
> Also:  The next Tomb Raider is Xbox One exclusive.  :-O



It's only a timed exclusive. It'll be on PS4 eventually


----------



## Axeslinger0u812

superjawes said:


> If you're older than 10, please stop using "M$" to refer to Microsoft.
> 
> More importantly, the DRM idea is going to come back to consoles. Microsoft sees it coming, I see it coming, anyone who has dealt with the BS on PC sees it coming, and I'm sure Sony sees it coming, too. MS was just too soon on presenting their plan, IMO, and actually, they added a bunch of useful features to digital distribution that would have allowed sharing games within families. When they dropped the online requirements, I remember several people being upset about losing those additional features.
> 
> Yes, it was too soon for the market, especially since disks are still king, but there's no reason to continue crucifying a company for a policy that they changed.




100% agree. DRM is coming. I thought a lot of the ideas they scrapped were actually decent ideas. I'm sure we'll see them incorporated eventually, more or less.


----------



## kyuuketsuki

axeslinger0u812 said:


> 100% agree. DRM is coming. I thought a lot of the ideas they scrapped were actually decent ideas. I'm sure we'll see them incorporated eventually, more or less.


 
 Ideas were good, implementation and timing were not. They should have made the online requirement optional if you had stable internet.


----------



## Music Alchemist

One thing I am disappointed at about the PS4 is Sony's failed "everything everywhere" philosophy. They wanted to make all PlayStation titles (PS1, PS2, PS3, PS4, PSP, PS Vita) available and playable on PS4 and PS Vita. That would have been amazing...but it seems like they more or less gave up on the plan.


----------



## kyuuketsuki

music alchemist said:


> One thing I am disappointed at about the PS4 is Sony's failed "everything everywhere" philosophy. They wanted to make all PlayStation titles (PS1, PS2, PS3, PS4, PSP, PS Vita) available and playable on PS4 and PS Vita. That would have been amazing...but it seems like they more or less gave up on the plan.


 
 They are still in the beta testing phase of the streaming service. When that becomes available to the masses it will presumably have all the PS titles for any system able to run it.


----------



## Music Alchemist

kyuuketsuki said:


> They are still in the beta testing phase of the streaming service. When that becomes available to the masses it will presumably have all the PS titles for any system able to run it.


 
  
 Oh, so it wasn't scrapped? Yay!


----------



## AxelCloris

music alchemist said:


> Oh, so it wasn't scrapped? Yay!


 
  
 PlayStation Now. You pay a rental fee per game and it's time based. If it were a monthly subscription model I'd be all over it.


----------



## Music Alchemist

axelcloris said:


> PlayStation Now. You pay a rental fee per game and it's time based. If it were a monthly subscription model I'd be all over it.


 
  
 Dang. Well, if it actually does have every PlayStation title ever, I'm still in!


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


>


 
  
  


music alchemist said:


>


 
  
 Axel, is your icon a spoof of his icon???
  

  
 (Photo added for posterity!)


----------



## Music Alchemist

stillhart said:


> Axel, is your icon a spoof of his icon???
> 
> 
> 
> (Photo added for posterity!)


 
  
 Yes, it is. Someone made the image in another thread and he was so amused by it that he decided to use it as his avatar temporarily.


----------



## AxelCloris

music alchemist said:


> Yes, it is. Someone made the image in another thread and he was so amused by it that he decided to use it as his avatar temporarily.


----------



## Stillhart

I had to google that.  It says "forever" apparently.


----------



## Music Alchemist

axelcloris said:


>


 
  
 Should've posted this:
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







  
 ...How long _do_ you intend on keeping it, my dear Axel?


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> I had to google that.  It says "forever" apparently.




Never watched Sandlot before?


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> Never watched Sandlot before?


 
 Apparently not!


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> Apparently not!


----------



## kyuuketsuki

axelcloris said:


> PlayStation Now. You pay a rental fee per game and it's time based. If it were a monthly subscription model I'd be all over it.


 
  
 I actually talked to a Sony PlayStation rep. Apparently the word in the pipeline is that that is only a temporary thing. It will apparently be, ideally matriculated into PlayStation Plus service. They might have limits, but it will not be the current beta pricing. At least I hope not because those prices are insane. Like I could buy a PS2 and buy whatever game on EBay for less than it would take me to play through some of the games I'd want to rent from that service.
  
 So if what the Sony rep told me is true, it will actually be a fantastic value. If it is released with the current pricing structure it will die a quick death. I'm not sure who would play /that/ price.


----------



## AxelCloris

music alchemist said:


> Should've posted this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




  
 I dunno. Maybe next week once I'm back from Cali?


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> I dunno. Maybe next week once I'm back from Cali?


 
  
 Sorry but this came to mind, just now LoL


----------



## Rewkie

http://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/   ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)


----------



## Longtime Lurker

rewkie said:


> http://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/   ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)


 

 the console port beggar race ruined CoD with hacking like they always do and have to wait a year and 3 months to play GTA V. not to mention the communities are smaller and there are no games to play that aren't already on consoles.


----------



## Change is Good

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/ps4-the-year-one-review/1100-6422875/
  
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/xbox-one-the-year-one-review/1100-6423669/


----------



## Accoun

So... apparently some digital games and apps (like even the Blu-ray player) on the Xbone are stopping working because of problems with Xbox LIVE. 

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=939535

*sigh*


----------



## boxofrain88

I have the seemingly unpopular opinion (at least based on sales since they released) in favor of the Xbox one. Here is where I am coming from:

Previous generation, I had a 360 I bought from a friend. I had never done any online gaming prior. It had no wifi, and the adapter was Hella expensive. I lived at my parents house at the time, and I was on the second floor, and the modem and router was in the basement. So since my parents weren't on board with me drilling several holes in their walls to take a cat5 cable between floors and rooms (and it just seemed like of much work) and it seemed a waste of money to buy an xbl subscription on top of a hundred dollar wifi adapter, plus the cost of games (just to try online gaming, that is) it seemed a waste of money, so I sold it again a desire even made some proffit. A year or so later I did research and found out the pay offered a built in wifi receiver and would allow psn access for free, I decided to get a ps3. I loved it and was happy, even though everyone hated psn.

Now, you can't play anything on psn for free. That cut out a key selling point for me. I have always heard xbl has a better community, I have always found Xbox to make the best controllers (so much more comfortable!)... so AL of those greatly influenced my choice. However perhaps the biggest selling point is the exclusive games Microsoft has. I missed out on Halo 3 and 4, Gears of War, and now there is titanfall for the Xbox one. This generation, for me, it just didn't make any sense to get a ps4 and every amount to get the Xbox one. But they are both great consoles, it all boils down to preference.


----------



## sjsu26

boxofrain88 said:


> I have the seemingly unpopular opinion (at least based on sales since they released) in favor of the Xbox one. Here is where I am coming from:
> 
> Previous generation, I had a 360 I bought from a friend. I had never done any online gaming prior. It had no wifi, and the adapter was Hella expensive. I lived at my parents house at the time, and I was on the second floor, and the modem and router was in the basement. So since my parents weren't on board with me drilling several holes in their walls to take a cat5 cable between floors and rooms (and it just seemed like of much work) and it seemed a waste of money to buy an xbl subscription on top of a hundred dollar wifi adapter, plus the cost of games (just to try online gaming, that is) it seemed a waste of money, so I sold it again a desire even made some proffit. A year or so later I did research and found out the pay offered a built in wifi receiver and would allow psn access for free, I decided to get a ps3. I loved it and was happy, even though everyone hated psn.
> 
> Now, you can't play anything on psn for free. That cut out a key selling point for me. I have always heard xbl has a better community, I have always found Xbox to make the best controllers (so much more comfortable!)... so AL of those greatly influenced my choice. However perhaps the biggest selling point is the exclusive games Microsoft has. I missed out on Halo 3 and 4, Gears of War, and now there is titanfall for the Xbox one. This generation, for me, it just didn't make any sense to get a ps4 and every amount to get the Xbox one. But they are both great consoles, it all boils down to preference.


 
 The previous generation was so clear-cut in favor of Xbox 360 IMHO (better controller and online experience), but the current generation not so much. I've been on the fence for awhile between the two and am still waiting to see how it plays out. The controller is a major sticking point for me. I believe the Xbox 360 was hands-down the best controller ever made. I actually use the Dualshock 4 on my PS3 right now and it is pretty good as well. The verdict is still out for the Xbox One controller as I haven't had time with it. I only got to mess around with it at BestBuy for a little bit. I'm really curious to find out what the slim version of the Xbox One will look like.


----------



## Sharingan

Honestly, I am waiting for all my buddies to finish choosing, so I can just play with them, but if it was up to just choosing a console right now, I would pick the PS4 as it apparently looks better than the Xbox One on most of the games that aren't exclusives, and also for the much wider range of exclusives (God of War 4 anyone?)    Unfortunately, you have to pay for PSN now and that was the winning factor for me getting a ps3.


----------



## eskimo

Venting my frustration:
  
 I have so far found no positives to the Xbox One so far. I own Destiny and MCC, i played Destiny for a month, and MCC maybe 5 hrs total since release. The WHOLE UI is just soo bad, it's slow, it hangs, navigation goes in circles, snapping is awful and never snaps off properly. IF it played 360 games i'd be more patient, but it doesn't and i will live with that as it's sat on my 360 atm. The controller is also, bad. What's up with the awkward shoulder bumpers? Other people have also said it's like giving yourself arthritis that much quicker. 
  
 If PS4 has voice communication working well + all the PS3 features, then PS4 > XB1. Right now, Xbox Live really has take a downfall, on 360 is was solid, who knows why they broke it.


----------



## sepansk4

I have owned both consoles since they launched, I won PS4 via Taco Bell promo and "won" the Xbox One via the Doritos and Mtn Dew promo.
  
 My Xbox One is my online gaming system and the PS4 is for RPG's. 
  
 Both systems have glaring faults and they will not be resolved for at least another year if we are lucky. 
  
 I use my Xbox One for media apps (Netflix and HBO Go etc) as well because I like the interface better. Do I believe the system is better? No
  
 The PS4 has a lot of potential but it comes down to where your gaming friends are and what you value in a gaming console.


----------



## Croozer

I currently own the Xbone.

The PS4 will be in my near future since they now have a exclusive on my favorite game.


----------



## sjsu26

sepansk4 said:


> I have owned both consoles since they launched, I won PS4 via Taco Bell promo and "won" the Xbox One via the Doritos and Mtn Dew promo.
> 
> My Xbox One is my online gaming system and the PS4 is for RPG's.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've been holding off on making a decision for either console and will probably play the waiting game for awhile. However, I was just curious what glaring faults you found with both of them that may or may not be resolved over time?


----------



## sepansk4

sjsu26 said:


> I've been holding off on making a decision for either console and will probably play the waiting game for awhile. However, I was just curious what glaring faults you found with both of them that may or may not be resolved over time?


 
  
 Sorry for the delayed reply... See below.
  
 PS4:
 Online gaming community not nearly as mature (meaning quantity of gamers not age group)
 Exclusive titles are not that intriguing, Little Big Planet is considered one of their big exclusives for 2014, REALLY? Some decent ones lined up for 2015 (were supposed to be out in 2014 **cough**The Order**cough**
 User interface seems bland to me. I am a GUI lover PS4 dashboard seems more command line feel.
 PS4 camera is pointless, don't waste your money.
  
 Xbox One:
 Go ahead and jump into the graphics conversation because its glaring to someone who cares about that stuff. Xbox lacks here. Maybe this will change with the recent developer SDK announced.
 Media apps are a little kludgey (Netflix app cannot remember which episode I recently watched)
 Unfinished headline titles seems to be the new fad. Halo MCC issues are still not resolved and its been a month and a half.
 Kinect voice commands are hit or miss depending on the time of month for the kinect, if you can read into my inuendo.
 Hardware problems seem to be more prevalent with the Xbox One than PS4, going off of their respective sub-reddits.


----------



## martin vegas

sepansk4 said:


> Sorry for the delayed reply... See below.
> 
> PS4:
> Online gaming community not nearly as mature (meaning quantity of gamers not age group)
> ...


 

 I think the only game that showed you what the ps4 is capable of was infamous second son, not that impressed by anything else really!


----------



## bretemm

With the Xbox One and the HDMI input, if I put my Apple TV to it, is it actually ok to use the Xbox as a "pass through" for a Apple TV? As in, couldn't the constant use end up overheating the Xbox?


----------



## eskimo

It's only a pass through, but given xbox's reputation you never know.

But the pass through should work with the console powered down i suspect, as it's designed to sit in a on-standby state.
But don't quote me on it.


----------



## boblt29

PS4 vs Xbox One? Well I've bought both 2 months ago, i'll just break both up into paragraphs:
  
 PS4: My first impression was WOW! Controller is fantastic and very easy to use (can't say the same for XBOX ONE.. or Nintendo 64 for that matter). Easy to use, didn't take long to get any apps, 
  
 XBOX ONE: My first impression was curious, I opened up the box and it looked promising. Started to play a couple different games, and I gotta say the overall experience was great, it had more inputs in the back.. check that out.. the xbox one gives more options for audio and video, and storage media. 
  
 So, XBOX ONE was an ok console, but I just felt like PS4 had WAAAY more of an "all-in-one" experience. PS4 prices overall are cheaper, and Playstation doesn't screw it's customers with Xbox Live fees, or any of that type. It took 3 weeks before I decided I wanted to definitely get rid of my XBOX ONE, so that should say something about which one is my favorite console! Still have my PS4 of course and LOVING IT!!


----------



## gammage0

I own both, and lately I've been wondering why. There are more and more console games getting ported to PC nowadays I might as well sell them both. If I had to choose, I would pick PS4 because Sony has actually put out exclusives I care about. PS3 had so many great exclusives and new IP's that if PS4 can have half as many it will be worth owning. The Microsoft exclusives that I actually care about seem few and far between. I used to play halo 1+2 somewhat competitively and they are still probably my most played games but I just don't like the direction of the new ones, the only other exclusive of theirs I like is Forza but there are plently of other options for racing sims.
  
 TL;DR 
  
 PC>>>>PS4>Xbone (IMO)


----------



## gammage0

At the end of the day I don't think it matters that much. Don't misunderstand me here, your point is valid but graphics shouldn't count for that much. It should be more about the game itself (story, gameplay mechanics.. etc) Xbox could easily overcome it's hardware deficiency by coming out with great exclusives. In this day and age though its so risky for companies to put a lot of money in developing a game and only have it come out on one console. I think we are going to see the cross platform trend continue and become even more prevalent in the current and future generations.


----------



## gammage0

That happened because PS4 started out cheaper. It's also do to the fact that from the beginning Sony was focusing more on the games while Microsoft was busy showing off its "entertainment console". The exact same thing happened in reverse last console gen. It's the same reason 360 outsold PS3.


----------



## oqvist

So far neither. PC is superior in every single way so the only thing that make me buy consoles is if there is any exclusives I really want to play. Performance really doesn´t matter. Wii had better exclusives then PS 3 and Xbox 360.


----------



## gammage0

head-fi user972 said:


> PC is a joke. Sure there's more options,but 90% of them pirate their games and I Definitely do not support that.


 
 That's not even remotely related to the argument, people pirate console games too.


----------



## kyuuketsuki

head-fi user972 said:


> PC is a joke. Sure there's more options,but 90% of them pirate their games and I Definitely do not support that.


 
  
 Really...? Have you seen the Steam community? Not everything is about pirating. And Steam with it's constant barrage of sales has probably done more to stop pirating than anything else. People who want to pirate will pirate.


----------



## thatBeatsguy

head-fi user972 said:


> PC is a joke. Sure there's more options,but *90% of them pirate their games* and I Definitely do not support that.


 
 You clearly aren't a PC gamer.


----------



## kyuuketsuki

head-fi user972 said:


> Proud console gamer ever since the Sega


 
  
 That's ironic since pirating is what killed Sega with the Dreamcast.


----------



## kyuuketsuki

head-fi user972 said:


> Can't wait for PC gaming to die off then. Considering 90% of game sales are on console I could see some developers ditching bad PC ports. Cause that's all you get. Bad ports.


 
  
 You really have no idea what you are talking about. Steam is a HUGE business. And PC sales have started eclipsing Console sales within the few years, last year they officially overtook console sales on a global scale. Steam alone has a multibillion dollar revenue (and that is without full disclosure since Valve is a privately owned and operated company), and most PC gamers I know use that rather than torrents. Why? Because it is cheap and legal, and it allows them to hop computers easily. I still like console gaming, but to even suggest that developers are ditching PC for console is ridiculous. Know how you can tell that is BS? Just look at the architectures of PS4 and XBone. They use PC architecture, because Devs find it easier to develop for that than the myriad of different setups that consoles used to have. PC Sales are on the rise and console is actually on the decline (comparatively speaking). 

 http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/04/analyst-pc-gaming-now-brings-in-more-money-than-console-gaming/

 http://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/YAKms/2005-2012-pc-vs-console-gaming-population-growth-rates


----------



## gammage0

head-fi user972 said:


> Can't wait for PC gaming to die off then. Considering 90% of game sales are on console I could see some developers ditching bad PC ports. Cause that's all you get. Bad ports.


 
 Not only are you being hateful for no reason, you are also completely misinformed


----------



## Fernandd

I would choose PS4, in fact, mine is arriving tomorrow   2nd hand martket makes a bid difference and some exclusives games plus a most powerful harware takes away microsoft this gen.


----------



## Fernandd

Do not buy it from ebay there are scammers everywhere :S


----------



## Change is Good

Hey guys, I've been streaming a lot, as of late, and will be continuing to do so. I could use the extra support, especially from my fellow head-fiers. So, please click the Twitch link on my signature and follow my channel!


----------



## Itbesandrodoe1

xbox one, just because of halo


----------



## bvbz

gammage0 said:


> I own both, and lately I've been wondering why. There are more and more console games getting ported to PC nowadays I might as well sell them both. If I had to choose, I would pick PS4 because Sony has actually put out exclusives I care about. PS3 had so many great exclusives and new IP's that if PS4 can have half as many it will be worth owning. The Microsoft exclusives that I actually care about seem few and far between. I used to play halo 1+2 somewhat competitively and they are still probably my most played games but I just don't like the direction of the new ones, the only other exclusive of theirs I like is Forza but there are plently of other options for racing sims.
> 
> TL;DR
> 
> PC>>>>PS4>Xbone (IMO)


 

 I tend to agree on having both. Most of the time both sit there and just collect dust when a title is out on PC. I go back and forth on PC/console.
  
 For me though, I'd keep my Xbox solely because the games I tend toward are Forza and Halo. Nothing better than friends over with booze and Halo coop or Gears coop or Borderlands coop. If I'm playing single-player I usually turn on PC unless it's just to relax.
  
 So, I'd go PC >>>XBone>=PS4 but only because of game preference.
  
 I prefer PS4's UI and the DLNA player is very crisp. Absent XBone games that I like PS4 would win.


----------



## redrising98

itbesandrodoe1 said:


> xbox one, just because of halo


 

 yep... just picked up a xbox one in preparation.  Otherwise PC >> all.
  
 Have found the xbone media features somewhat useful though.  Nice to be able to have the cable, netflix/streaming, video games, and video player all in one unit.


----------



## Vividcard

As an owner of all 3 current consoles AND a PC. I can say that I feel completely unbiased in all shapes. But I'm willing to share my two cents as to why I like my PS4 over the Xbox.
  
 For me, both systems have there benefits and drawbacks. I will be excluding game lineup from my selection. But just hardware and UI. For me I like the controller of the Xbox more, mainly because of the joystick feel. But the UI on the system is one step from deplorable for me. If you do not have Kinect the system is a chore to figure out what goes where. I have had a chance to use the system, and it does make it loads better to navigate. But I should not have to buy a piece of equipment to navigate the menus. And as a special side note: PARTY CHAT IS HORRENDOUS.
  
 As for the PS4, The UI is much more fluid, and I feel that the system is intuitive in where it goes and how to navigate it. I do feel that the controller is lackluster. It is far better than the PS3. But, just like sixaxxis, I think they through in a gimmick that will be unused for most of the consoles life with the touchpad. But I could be wrong.
  
 The games play practically the same, Most games are on both systems, so its not an contest of which performs better like it used to be. These are just my quick two cents though. I'm sure there will be more than enough people to contradict or disagree with me. As this is the internet you know


----------



## Jodlar

PC > all ofc.
  
 And PS4 > xbox, because it has way better exclusives imo


----------



## redrising98

Not trying to start anything but having never been in the Sony ecosystem what exclusives are better for the ps4? Only one I'm aware of is the dark souls sequel.


----------



## Vividcard

redrising98 said:


> Not trying to start anything but having never been in the Sony ecosystem what exclusives are better for the ps4? Only one I'm aware of is the dark souls sequel.


 
 It's all good. Xbox gets em too. For me, The top examples would be The Last of us, Infamous Series, Uncharted. I had hoped for The Order, but with the short gameplay it fell... well... short.


----------



## redrising98

Interesting. Funny how being stuck in either ecosystem almost makes you blind to the others. Probably explains quite a bit of fanboi-ing.


----------



## Vividcard

redrising98 said:


> Interesting. Funny how being stuck in either ecosystem almost makes you blind to the others. Probably explains quite a bit of fanboi-ing.


 
 It's pretty easy to only have one system and when you hear an annoucement of a game and hear EXCLUSIVELY FOR X SYSTEM and you go "Meh, dont care"


----------



## martin vegas

The games look much better on the ps4.just saying!


----------



## Vividcard

martin vegas said:


> The games look much better on the ps4.just saying!


 
 I think this all depends on the game TBH. Some games get downscaled and such. But the specs between the two consoles are nearly identical... What games do you feel look better?


----------



## bvbz

martin vegas said:


> The games look much better on the ps4.just saying!


 
  


vividcard said:


> I think this all depends on the game TBH. Some games get downscaled and such. But the specs between the two consoles are nearly identical... What games do you feel look better?


 
  
 I think in all cases it is not so bad that it would draw one out of the narrative. If the possibility that another system may have some slightly better graphics could ruin a gaming experience for someone ... well, consoles aren't for them.


----------



## martin vegas

vividcard said:


> I think this all depends on the game TBH. Some games get downscaled and such. But the specs between the two consoles are nearly identical... What games do you feel look better?


 

 Metal gear solid 5 looks much better on ps4 even destiny and bf4 do and loads more games..some of the games on the ps4 couldn't be done on the xbox one like infamous second son, the speed it was moving and still having all the detail just showed you what the ps4 is capable of..xbox one hasn't got the same hardware as the ps4..ps4 has got better particle effects and shaders and much better lighting effects!


----------



## conquerator2

Slightly beefier specs, hence slightly better looking games :}
 First party Sony games tend to look amazeballs IMO.
 I had an X360 but then I bought the PS3 and stayed til the PS4, which I now also have.
 Like the exclusives better [Heavy Rain, The Last of Us, Uncharted, etc.]


----------



## Jodlar

redrising98 said:


> Not trying to start anything but having never been in the Sony ecosystem what exclusives are better for the ps4? Only one I'm aware of is the dark souls sequel.


 
  
 Uncharted, The Last of Us, Bloodborne, Until Dawn,... and I could go on. Just because of these few games I would never buy xbone over ps4


----------



## martin vegas

jodlar said:


> Uncharted, The Last of Us, Bloodborne, Until Dawn,... and I could go on. Just because of these few games I would never buy xbone over ps4


 

 Only bad thing about the ps4 is the left thumbstick splits and the controllers don't charge after so long..mine won't charge anymore!


----------



## Vividcard

martin vegas said:


> Only bad thing about the ps4 is the left thumbstick splits and the controllers don't charge after so long..mine won't charge anymore!


 
 I won't argue with some of this. But I will clarify. The thumbstick issue was resolved. was an issue with early controllers. Plastic has been changed, issue resolved. Charging I will agree with. But I avoid this using a cradle style charger that charges it from the front.


----------



## yaymee

PS4 though I do like how Microsoft been handling things with their Xbox line integrating windows into the ecosystem.


----------



## nickisnoob

PS4 because i like JRPGs (they rarely go to XB1 as far as i know)


----------



## martin vegas

Got myself some good black Friday deals on a ps4 controller and charge dock and thumb grips..glad I waited now!


----------



## Supa Mint

It's difficult for me to recommend Xbox One when they don't even support FLAC.  
  
 I would love to be able to use Xbox One to play my music collection; however, it won't even recognize FLAC format.  Hello? Microsoft?  It's 2016, not 1996.


----------



## ryanellison009

Xbone due to its exclusives! Been a fan of Halo since the beginning along with Forza Motorsports!


----------



## conquerator2

That's about all the exclusives there are! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Sorry


----------



## Pootis

PC.


----------



## Ben Che

Personally, the PS4, but I could see where you could be better off with an xbone.


----------



## karloil

Xbox One S!!! hope it gets released soon in Singapore. Decided not to get a gaming PC and wait for this instead. Halo just keeps pulling me back to Xbox. (Even if I'm already confused with the story line)


----------



## DirtySnackage

Three words. 4k. Blu-Ray. Player.


----------



## sti23

I've been a Playstation lover since the first one, but this time, I bought the One and not the PS4. The reason was because I bought it brand new from my buddy that won one at an auction.  I saved about $150! 
 Having played it, it's a pretty awesome machine. I love the Windows integration. Most of the games I play are available on both platforms, so I'm not really affected by the platform exclusive games. In the end, I would probably purchase the machine that gave me the best deal!


----------



## shaisalem15

Using a pc
 but if I must choose then I'd choose ps4 more friend I know have it + as far as I know better games and such


----------



## Rompe

I'm also using PC so I don't really need gaming console.
 However, if the next Xbox (Project Scorpio) or Playstation (PS5?) included good 4K UHD Bluray player with support for all/most HDR formats (HDR10, DolbyVision HDR etc.) and most audio formats (Dolby Atmos, DTS:X etc.) and lots of good streaming apps (Netflix, Amazon, HBO etc.). I could consider getting one with the best specs and stability. Still I would probably do most of the gaming with PC.
 It's rather expensive to upgrade PC just to get 4K UHD Bluray support if you are on older platform, e.g. Haswell or Skylake. UHD bluray DRM requires upgrading to KabyLake CPU and latest 200 series chipset => new motherboard, RAM and maybe also GPU. And there aren't many 4K UHD bluray drives for PC yet (Pioneer the only one currenty).


----------



## ibage

This is a tough one. I got my Xbone because I had friends on there and while I'm not a big FPS fan, I like Halo. I like reading classic sci fi and lets be honest here, Halo ripped off Ringworld. Further more, the 360 is one of my favorite consoles. 
  
 Conversely, I enjoy me some RPGs and the JRPG genre lives almost solely on Playstation consoles in the west. Ultimately, I think I'd stick with the Xbone regardless. I do absolutely HATE what they did to Windows10, merging it with XBL. But that's a company issue, not one with the console itself. Project Scorpio has me interested though. It sounds like a souped up Xbone.
  
 Objectively though, the PS4 is a better machine, technically speaking


----------



## ousooner15

I prefer Xbox just because I have always gamed on that console. My friend has a PS4 though and I am quickly starting to lean that direction just because the majority of my friends have the playstation now. After reading through some of the older replies it looks like PS4 definitely has the edge here.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

I just came across this thread,Question i have a old racing set up that includes PS3,ButtKicker and logitech G27 mounted on a DIY rig with RACTIVE Racing seat that is collecting dust somewhere in the Garden shed does the G27 works with the PS4 now?Thanks!


----------



## doktorkarate

As I owned both for quite a time I would say go for a PS4. I ended up selling my X1 as I simply did not use it anymore. 
Just go for the platform you like the exclusives more ( bear in mind that X1 exclusives are coming to pc also)


----------



## Nidus123

PS4 has more exclusives so i'd go with that. With Windows Anywhere (or was it Xbox Anywhere) you can play Xbox games on your PC... so there's pretty much no contest


----------



## Whitigir

PS4 also has VR capability  and that Resident Evil Vii is to die for


----------



## Nidus123

With Xbox Scorpio now announced (Xbox One X)... there is still no competition if you have a PC available that can play the announced games. PS4 if you want consoles, stick with PC-MASTER-RACE for the rest


----------



## Rompe

Nidus123 said:


> With Xbox Scorpio now announced (Xbox One X)... there is still no competition if you have a PC available that can play the announced games. PS4 if you want consoles, stick with PC-MASTER-RACE for the rest


There's currently at least one thing that can make Xbox One S/X compelling even for many PC users (at least for me). Most PCs can't play 4K UHD blurays or stream 4K content even if they run games much better than Xbox One S or X. You'll need specific hardware components and software (Kaby Lake, Geforce 10 series, PowerDVD, 4K UHD bluray drive etc.) to do so. Updating most of your already powerful enough hardware components (motherboard, RAM etc.) just to get this one feature can be much more expensive than just getting the Xbox. Xbox One S/X natively has 4K UHD bluray playback and 4K streaming apps. Dedicated 4K UHD bluray player (like Panasonic DMP-UB700) could also be option especially if you have good surround speaker setup. But it can be as expensive as Xbox One S/X and you won't get the gaming capability and as good app support, e.g. Dolby Atmos app, which enables Dolby Atmos tracks from blurays (and games) to be processed into 2-channel virtual surround for your headphones.


----------



## kyuuketsuki

Honestly, I do not believe at all that there will be true 4K gaming on either system. I believe it will be like the previous generation and upscale from a lower resolution to minimize power consumption on the budget parts necessary to keep costs down. As of right now, even the newest 1080Ti struggles with true 4K gaming. It can do it with some games, but the far more expensive Titan X is still king with its 11teraflops. The Xbox1X is a 6 teraflop system. To be clear, that is lower than the GTX1070 (which is 6.5), and that struggles greatly with 4K, but can more or less put out 1440. Now streaming and playing 4K content is another matter entirely. I can currently stream 4K with ease, and I can invest in a 4K bluray burner for $130 if I so desired. Just by a numbers game, neither system has the guff to pull off total 4K graphics. It just isn't in the cards for a $500 system.


----------



## Rompe

kyuuketsuki said:


> I can invest in a 4K bluray burner for $130 if I so desired.


You could, but currently you still wouldn't be able to play 4K UHD bluray movies. For that you would also need to upgrade your CPU to Kaby Lake and get the latest PowerDVD software. You would also need to disable the GTX 1070 and use the integrated GPU on the Kaby Lake CPU instead. Even then it might not work because your motherboard also needs to have SGX and HDCP 2.2 implemented (with HDMI 2.0a output) for the integrated GPU.
http://www.cyberlink.com/support/faq-content.do?id=19144
The Geforce 10 series just got 4K streaming support on May, but they still don't have 4K bluray playback support. Hopefully next gen GPU's (AMD Vega/GF Volta) can handle all 4K content DRM alone without any other hardware (CPU/motherboard) involvement.
For now, 4K content streaming/playback has been made very difficult for PC users who don't want to spend big bucks upgrading their system. Therefore Xbox One S or dedicated 4K bluray player may be better option for those that need the feature now.


----------



## kyuuketsuki

Rompe said:


> You could, but currently you still wouldn't be able to play 4K UHD bluray movies. For that you would also need to upgrade your CPU to Kaby Lake and get the latest PowerDVD software. You would also need to disable the GTX 1070 and use the integrated GPU on the Kaby Lake CPU instead. Even then it might not work because your motherboard also needs to have SGX and HDCP 2.2 implemented (with HDMI 2.0a output) for the integrated GPU.
> http://www.cyberlink.com/support/faq-content.do?id=19144
> The Geforce 10 series just got 4K streaming support on May, but they still don't have 4K bluray playback support. Hopefully next gen GPU's (AMD Vega/GF Volta) can handle all 4K content DRM alone without any other hardware (CPU/motherboard) involvement.
> For now, 4K content streaming/playback has been made very difficult for PC users who don't want to spend big bucks upgrading their system. Therefore Xbox One S or dedicated 4K bluray player may be better option for those that need the feature now.



As of Skylake many have SGX but it is disabled by default (post 4th Qtr 2015). You can enable it if you know what you are doing. It would be very easy for me to make my computer run 4K bluray if I so desired. I don't since I don't have a 4k display at the moment. 

http://www.techspot.com/news/62324-intel-enable-sgx-technology-future-skylake-cpus.html

At worst I might have to upgrade my MoBo, if I need to do that it will still be around half of the cost of buying an Xbox1X.


----------



## David Lucman

I prefer the PS4 exclusives but I would still love to have both consoles


----------



## Rompe

kyuuketsuki said:


> As of Skylake many have SGX but it is disabled by default (post 4th Qtr 2015). You can enable it if you know what you are doing. It would be very easy for me to make my computer run 4K bluray if I so desired. I don't since I don't have a 4k display at the moment.
> 
> http://www.techspot.com/news/62324-intel-enable-sgx-technology-future-skylake-cpus.html
> 
> At worst I might have to upgrade my MoBo, if I need to do that it will still be around half of the cost of buying an Xbox1X.


Maybe you are an exception then, but as I stated, for most PC users Xbox One S (~$250) or dedicated 4K bluray player can be cheaper option for those that need the feature now. Xbox One X isn't even out yet, so the situation is probably different then (AMD Vega/GF Volta could maybe alone handle 4K bluray DRM). Many PC users still have older chipset (e.g. Haswell, Ivy Bridge etc.) and the minor performance improvements aren't worth the upgrade to Skylake/Kaby Lake. For pure gaming performance, putting money on new GPU is much more sensible route.


----------



## kyuuketsuki

Rompe, they released their specs, and they said clearly 6 teraflops. Destiny 2 will be played at 30fps. And they aren't going to change the GPU drastically like that (From Polaris to Vega). That would be the dumbest thing they could do. If they do that, the architecture of the GPU is different and thus all old games would be not optimized, that means either one of two things... 1) They need to patch EACH AND EVERY game in their library for the new architecture or 2) force their customers to play older games or games designed for their other system in a less than ideal way (read unoptimized). It will use the same architecture. Also, as I recall the Vega is looking to be in the 11-12TFLOP range, which is double the slated FLOPS in the XB1X. So yeah, an Xbox 1 S is the cheapest 4K bluray player you can buy (unless you have a system that can just be upgraded to a 4k bluray drive), but there is literally no reason to spend the $500 on the Xbox1X. You can more than likely upgrade your current system to better specs for the same or less than the price.


----------



## Rompe

kyuuketsuki said:


> Rompe, they released their specs, and they said clearly 6 teraflops. Destiny 2 will be played at 30fps. And they aren't going to change the GPU drastically like that (From Polaris to Vega). That would be the dumbest thing they could do. If they do that, the architecture of the GPU is different and thus all old games would be not optimized, that means either one of two things... 1) They need to patch EACH AND EVERY game in their library for the new architecture or 2) force their customers to play older games or games designed for their other system in a less than ideal way (read unoptimized). It will use the same architecture. Also, as I recall the Vega is looking to be in the 11-12TFLOP range, which is double the slated FLOPS in the XB1X.


I don't think these teraflops, Destiny 2 30fps and other gaming capabilities or whatever you are trying to tell me here really affects 4K streaming or bluray playback, so I don't see how they would concern or interest me in any way. I do my gaming on PC.



kyuuketsuki said:


> So yeah, an Xbox 1 S is the cheapest 4K bluray player you can buy (unless you have a system that can just be upgraded to a 4k bluray drive), but there is literally no reason to spend the $500 on the Xbox1X. You can more than likely upgrade your current system to better specs for the same or less than the price.


$500 for a console is definitely too much. So Xbox One S is clearly better option unless, as I already speculated, Vega or Volta (one of which I'm planning to get this year/beginning of next year) would bring standalone support for 4K bluray playback, in which case I would only need 4K bluray drive + player software.


----------



## kyuuketsuki

Rompe said:


> I don't think these teraflops, Destiny 2 30fps and other gaming capabilities or whatever you are trying to tell me here really affects 4K streaming or bluray playback, so I don't see how they would concern or interest me in any way. I do my gaming on PC.
> 
> 
> $500 for a console is definitely too much. So Xbox One S is clearly better option unless, as I already speculated, Vega or Volta (one of which I'm planning to get this year/beginning of next year) would bring standalone support for 4K bluray playback, in which case I would only need 4K bluray drive + player software.



They don't. My point was against the new XB1X. The XB1S is actually a really good deal for a 4K Bluray player, but still only a mediocre gaming machine. The XB1X is just a waste of money.


----------

