# Topping L30 - The new budget benchmark?



## iamwhoiam

Topping has finally released images of the L30 headphone amp to match their E30 DAC. It uses the same chips as the A90, with a ballpark cost of US$150.

Audio Precision measurements look very promising at ASR. It looks like it's going to set the new objective benchmark for budget-end amplification.

Very excited personally! Thought I'd start a thread to gather some thoughts?


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## trufunk

Sweet!! When will this be released?


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## iamwhoiam

Apparently in July-ish. This will be Topping's next amp before the A50S.


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## bahamot

Prototype measurement


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## Matoriv

looking forward to it and if it is as good as the hype, will get it + E30.
else magni heresy + modi 3


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## individual6891

There's no reason why this won't be the budget king. 

Some objective measurements posted now:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...asurement-of-topping-l30-headphone-amp.14252/


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## Makiah S

I mean does Heresey not measure just as cleanly? Not sure if it's putting out 2W tho,


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## individual6891

Mshenay said:


> I mean does Heresey not measure just as cleanly? Not sure if it's putting out 2W tho,


*Heresy*
THD+N - 0.000113%

*L30*
THD+N - 0.000063%

Obviously both outstanding.


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## Makiah S

individual6891 said:


> *Heresy*
> THD+N - 0.000113%
> 
> *L30*
> ...



Ahhh ehh ok better that's cool!


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## sajunky

I would also vote for L30 (if a price drop to $100). A reason is obvious, I think.

Use of TPA-6120 chip in a nested loopback configuration is inappropriate for the amp @ $500, but completely justified for a $100 product. See my comment: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/topping-a90.927412/post-15746300


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## shenzhenaudio

Topping released their budget DAC E30 months ago, and headphone amp matched with expected and concerned as well. Now L30 is approaching and on sale tomorrow at US$139.99! What's surprise will bring to us? 
At the same time, any problems are welcomed to consult at shenzhenaudio store.

Of course, there is a review before L30 pre-produce from audiosciencereview can be refer: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...asurement-of-topping-l30-headphone-amp.14252/ , we also will arrange more reviews for your reference.

Here pls refer more details:


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## sajunky

ASR "established experts" didn't pickup design fault in Topping A90. Also ASR measurements didn't show ground loops introduced by such a fault. It is despite of the fact that ground loops are typically a plaque of Amir's equipment (only when testing non-Topping products like TotalDAC). I bought Topping D30 (featuring the best measurements on ASR) and it produce trash, not a sound.

From my experience ASR measurements are cannot be trusted. Having said the above, L30 doesn't look bad and is worth trying. It doesn't have dual MeanWell SMPS outputs hoocked in series (so is free of A90 fault) and it doesn't cost $500. .LOL.

 I expected a price closer to $100, it is a real value of L30.


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## individual6891

sajunky said:


> ASR "established experts" didn't pickup design fault in Topping A90. Also ASR measurements didn't show ground loops introduced by such a fault. It is despite of the fact that ground loops are typically a plaque of Amir's equipment (only when testing non-Topping products like TotalDAC). I bought Topping D30 (featuring the best measurements on ASR) and it produce trash, not a sound.
> 
> From my experience ASR measurements are cannot be trusted. Having said the above, L30 doesn't look bad and is worth trying. It doesn't have dual MeanWell SMPS outputs hoocked in series (so is free of A90 fault) and it doesn't cost $500. .LOL.
> 
> I expected a price closer to $100, it is a real value of L30.



The E30 is $129 without wall adapter, so $139 is reasonable for a sister product.

There are plenty of designs and commercial products in service which use SMPS in series. You have already received replies in all the forums to this.


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## sajunky (Jul 27, 2020)

individual6891 said:


> There are plenty of designs and commercial products in service which use SMPS in series.


Well, such claim require a proof, please follow.


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## iamwhoiam (Jul 27, 2020)

sajunky said:


> Well, such claim require a proof, please follow.



The L30 has an external VAC adapter, therefore likely to use an internal linear rail (hypothesis).

Neurochrome HPA-1 used 2x SMPS in series. But that is beside the point. This is an L30 thread and nothing to do with the A90, which was predominantly designed to be used balanced.

The L30 performance as unbalanced for $140 looks phenomenal.

Please stop trying to hijack other Topping threads, it's not necessary.


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## sajunky

iamwhoiam said:


> Neurochrome HPA-1 used 2x SMPS in series. But that is beside the point. This is an L30 thread and nothing to do with the A90, which was predominantly designed to be used balanced.


A small butique developer. Tom Christiansen was forced to add a pair of LM317/337 linear regulators to deal with a problem. Still power supply noise is present on the FFT. It is why, but users did not complain. On the other side A90 is exceptional as Topping decided there was no need for linear regulators - there is absolutely no power supply noise. What we see on the FFT is an analyzer noise (as Amir says). .LOL. However users keep complaining, here is another case from the same forum: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../topping-a90-static-issues-help-please.14923/

I agree to one point, it is a time to stop talking about A90, Thank you very much.

It is good that L30 has no such problem. cheaper and so far no defects. That is! I wrote about in my pervious post confirming it. It was my finding, you are only repeating what I wrote already (a parrot speach not quoted).


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## Muataz

Mshenay said:


> I mean does Heresey not measure just as cleanly? Not sure if it's putting out 2W tho,



It measures way better for 50mw which will help with IEM. And can gives 3.5Watt


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## cel4145

Apos Audio announced  yesterday they are taking orders and will ship on the 31st

https://apos.audio/blogs/news/topping-l30-headphone-amp-coming-soon-on-apos-audio

Ordered!


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## dmac6419

sajunky said:


> ASR "established experts" didn't pickup design fault in Topping A90. Also ASR measurements didn't show ground loops introduced by such a fault. It is despite of the fact that ground loops are typically a plaque of Amir's equipment (only when testing non-Topping products like TotalDAC). I bought Topping D30 (featuring the best measurements on ASR) and it produce trash, not a sound.
> 
> From my experience ASR measurements are cannot be trusted. Having said the above, L30 doesn't look bad and is worth trying. It doesn't have dual MeanWell SMPS outputs hoocked in series (so is free of A90 fault) and it doesn't cost $500. .LOL.
> 
> I expected a price closer to $100, it is a real value of L30.


What have you tested, get real dude,if all you have is a hundred bucks get something for a hundred bucks or save 39 bucks, I have the A90 and ordered the L30 because I could, have had the A90 since day one,nary a problem.


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## individual6891 (Jul 28, 2020)

sajunky said:


> A small butique developer. Tom Christiansen was forced to add a pair of LM317/337 linear regulators to deal with a problem.



Forced you say? Errmm...Where is the LM317/337? He did use it in the older HP-1 amp to regulate to +/-18V (Meanwell don't supply this voltage). Obviously it would also help with ripple rejection, but not solve any of the issues you so mention. So no, he doesn't need to use it. There is no "forcing".










He may be boutique, but you asked the question and I replied accurately. You now have two tested commercial amps using SMPS in series with no issues.

Either you have deluded yourself to the point you can't sense your own inaccuracies, or I smell a troll.... Either way, you can (and should) stop now. Please.


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## bahamot (Aug 15, 2020)

I have put him on my ignored list.


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## dmac6419

bahamot said:


> I have put him on my igmored list.


Sajunky I assume


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## Makiah S

Hey guys heads up! Apos is doing a little sale on the L30/E30 Stack, with a pair of Topping RCA Interconnects included


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## bahamot

dmac6419 said:


> Sajunky I assume


Sure is. Just could not read his/her nonsense anymore.


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## sajunky (Jul 29, 2020)

individual6891 said:


> Forced you say? Errmm...Where is the LM317/337? He did use it in the older HP-1 amp to regulate to +/-18V (Meanwell don't supply this voltage). Obviously it would also help with ripple rejection, *but not solve any of the issues you so mention*. So no, he doesn't need to use it. There is no "forcing".


Sometimes truth comes unintentionally. You actually wrote that ground loops cannot be removed by adding linear regulators. This is correct. It may reduce, but not eliminate. *If you tried, you were a fool.* Once you allow multiple path entering the circuit (like it is done in this case), there is no easy way to go away with the problem. A basic design principle is to fight at the source and reduce loop area. A single grounding point is mandatory. There is no single grounding point with two FCC/EU certified SMPS's in series. Get this things right, then you don't have to promote defective designs.


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## iamwhoiam (Jul 29, 2020)

@sajunky - a kind request to stop troubling the thread please. You posted some questionable theory which has been countered. It ought to be over now.

There's now 3x amps using the same power topology and you're still arguing.

Here is a productive suggestion for you: Why not start your own thread and complain to John Yang and Tom Christiansen (@tomchr )  themselves.

....I'm sure they'd be absolutely thrilled.


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## sajunky

iamwhoiam said:


> @sajunky - a kind request to stop troubling the thread please. You posted some questionable theory which has been countered. It ought to be over now.
> [...]
> Here is a productive suggestion for you: Why not start your own thread and complain to John Yang and Tom Christiansen themselves.
> 
> ....I'm sure they'd be delighted.


I am not a person who is trying to defend defective design in a wrong thread.

As you have mentioned John Yang, it is unfair to link him to this kind of engineers. He posted a photo of his prototype and there was no power supply. He was using 9V batteries on his desk. Therefore I can't blame John Yang personally, as I am not sure. You make unfolded accusations.


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## iamwhoiam

bahamot said:


> I have put him on my igmored list.


I should have listened to you earlier.  . Lesson learnt.

Have had to report more off-topic nuisance, despite my polite request.


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## dmac6419

sajunky said:


> I am not a person who is trying to defend defective design in a wrong thread.
> 
> As you have mentioned John Yang, it is unfair to link him to this kind of engineers. He posted a photo of his prototype and there was no power supply. He was using 9V batteries on his desk. Therefore I can't blame John Yang personally, as I am not sure. You make unfolded accusations.


all this knowledge you claim to possess were is your state of the art product?


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## NA Blur

Have the E30 2004+ version and L30 amp coming for review and comparison against the D50s and Heresy stack. I'll update early next month ( August 2020 ) and give some impressions / observations.


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## sajunky

dmac6419 said:


> all this knowledge you claim to possess were is your state of the art product?


I wrote it already, but you didn't listen. I do actually like L30. The same technology as A90 at more affordable price and it doesn't suffer from the same design defect. More appropriate technology for this price range than $500 range. And such a comment was on topic. You were derailing this thread with a raw of off-topic attacks.


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## Racheski

dmac6419 said:


> all this knowledge you claim to possess were is your state of the art product?


Stop feeding it!


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## lantian

How do topping amps sound. Are they any good subjectively aswell. Measurements are all fine and well. But untill you hear it they mean pretty much nothing.
So far monoprice liqud spark seemed to be the best sounding of the small amps. Though more voltage for high impedence cans would be nice. Spec qise these seem amazing, but are they soundwise any better than say schiit magni3 or the liqud spark.


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## cel4145

lantian said:


> How do topping amps sound. Are they any good subjectively aswell. Measurements are all fine and well. But untill you hear it they mean pretty much nothing.
> So far monoprice liqud spark seemed to be the best sounding of the small amps. Though more voltage for high impedence cans would be nice. Spec qise these seem amazing, but are they soundwise any better than say schiit magni3 or the liqud spark.



Well, how can you describe what an amp sounds like without a reference standard for a neutral, no coloring added sounding amp?

I think it's fair to say that the L30 measures so freaking accurate, with SINAD of 122 and dynamic range of 132db with 4V input, that it can't sound like anything.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...asurement-of-topping-l30-headphone-amp.14252/

If you're looking for an amp with a sound, this is not the amp for you.


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## lantian (Aug 1, 2020)

cel4145 said:


> Well, how can you describe what an amp sounds like without a reference standard for a neutral, no coloring added sounding amp?
> 
> I think it's fair to say that the L30 measures so freaking accurate, with SINAD of 122 and dynamic range of 132db with 4V input, that it can't sound like anything.
> 
> ...


Not what i asked for. But guess wont get the answer here.
Thanks anyway.


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## sajunky (Aug 1, 2020)

@lantian. You can expect better SQ than A90 on SE connection. Essentially the same performance sans a nasty ground loops design defect. I think L30 will compete well with THX 789 (now a price 'drop' -ed to $299), giving a slight coloured sound in a direct comparison (which doesn't have to be a bad things). It the same extremely high nested loopback technology, so comparison is fair. If you want a real neutral sound, you can't get (for now) from a cheap loopback configuration, a price must be higher. Sometimes it is worth to read about higher priced products to understand value what you get for a price. Look at a review of A90: https://www.avforums.co.za/index.php/topic,88010.msg1006168.html#msg1006168

Remember that a balanced connection was used in this review and a main comparison was made with high-end sounding R28 (class A non-feedback discrete amp).

Be careful when pairing. The input impedance of L30 is only 2.5 kOhms (vs a typical 47 kOhms, it is how Topping has achieved top SINAD figures). It will drop an output level when pairing with a DACs with a passive output with an associated high frequency roll-off.


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## cel4145 (Aug 1, 2020)

lantian said:


> Not what i asked for. But guess wont get the answer here.
> Thanks anyway.



That is a good reply to your question.

If you don't believe you can rely on measurements to determine if an amp is neutral and distortion/noise free, then subjective evaluations like warm or bright or having great clarity only have meaning in reference to another amp. 

In other words, those terms are relative to someone's experience with other amps. In the same way that 90° F is a very hot day for me here in Michigan. But it is not considered hot for someone who lives in Las Vegas or Aswan, Egypt. Or in the same way that 40°F is not considered cold where I am, but is considered frigid in those other places.

Amp sound is relative to your experience and what you're used to.


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## sajunky

cel4145 said:


> If you don't believe you can rely on measurements to determine if an amp is neutral and distortion/noise free, then subjective evaluations like warm or bright or having great clarity only have meaning in reference to another amp.


How we can believe in measurements when our perception for objective measurements is subjective and in reverse.  

I mean that not everything we hear objectively is measured. Instead of developing new measurement methods a slogan came out claiming that measurements are objective and our hearing subjective.  What a lame definiion. 

Measurement methods didn't change over decades. Only a static sinewaves are analyzed. No dynamic response, even a simple square wave for testing overshots is not taken. But even the amps that do not show overshots do always suffer from a dead time. During such short period any input signal stops being amplified with a proper amplitude and phase, as a negative loopback is broken. Amps like THX, A90, L30 with a nested loopback and a strong open loop gain suffer from a longer dead time. It show as increasing sibilants when present in the recording or other artefacts.

I agree to the point that a direct listening comparison is the best.


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## cel4145

sajunky said:


> How we can believe in measurements when our perception for objective measurements is subjective and in reverse.
> 
> I mean that not everything we hear objectively is measured. Instead of developing new measurement methods a slogan came out claiming that measurements are objective and our hearing subjective.  What a lame definiion.
> 
> ...



Dude. I have no interest in engaging in a debate about objectivism versus subjectivism. This has been done to death on the web over the last dozen years or so, and you are welcome to go Google it and read about it if you want to learn more.

Rather, I was trying to point out that for you to get a subjective evaluation of how the L30 sounds, putting aside whether or not that's reliable, you need someone to compare it to an amp you are familiar with. It has nothing to do with objectivism.


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## Racheski

sajunky said:


> @lantian. You can expect better SQ than A90 on SE connection. Essentially the same performance sans a nasty ground loops design defect. I think L30 will compete well with THX 789 (now a price 'drop' -ed to $299), giving a slight coloured sound in a direct comparison (which doesn't have to be a bad things). It the same extremely high nested loopback technology, so comparison is fair. If you want a real neutral sound, you can't get (for now) from a cheap loopback configuration, a price must be higher. Sometimes it is worth to read about higher priced products to understand value what you get for a price. Look at a review of A90: https://www.avforums.co.za/index.php/topic,88010.msg1006168.html#msg1006168
> 
> Remember that a balanced connection was used in this review and a main comparison was made with high-end sounding R28 (class A non-feedback discrete amp).
> 
> Be careful when pairing. The input impedance of L30 is only 2.5 kOhms (vs a typical 47 kOhms, it is how Topping has achieved top SINAD figures). It will drop an output level when pairing with a DACs with a passive output with an associated high frequency roll-off.


Almost all of what you are saying is not accurate.  My suggestion for anyone looking for more information is to join ASR and talk to the actual person who engineered the product.


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## chaotic_angel (Aug 2, 2020)

Has anyone compare the sound VS the SMSL SP200? are both same in sound characteristics and linearity? I have E30 DAC + SP200 wondering if L30 will provide more benefits please..

Edit: correcting type


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## Light - Man

chaotic_angel said:


> Has anyone compare the sound VS the SMSL SP200? are both same in sound characteristics and linearity? I have A30 DAC + SP200 wondering if L30 will provide more benefits please..


Do you mean the Topping D30 DAC? If so I would lose it in favour of the Topping DX3 Pro which has much better dual DAC chips. The Topping D30 DAC is a very basic budget DAC in today's world that I would consider it obsolete.


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## cel4145

Light - Man said:


> Do you mean the Topping D30 DAC? If so I would lose it in favour of the Topping DX3 Pro which has much better dual DAC chips. The Topping D30 DAC is a very basic budget DAC in today's world that I would consider it obsolete.



I thought he was talking about the L30 amp since he was looking for a comparison with the SP200

FYI: The Topping DX3 Pro is a $219 DAC and headphone amp. The Topping E30 for $129 and new D10S for $99 are both better measuring DACs.


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## chaotic_angel

Light - Man said:


> Do you mean the Topping D30 DAC? If so I would lose it in favour of the Topping DX3 Pro which has much better dual DAC chips. The Topping D30 DAC is a very basic budget DAC in today's world that I would consider it obsolete.



ups my bad, I mean E30 DAC + SP200


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## Light - Man

cel4145 said:


> FYI: The Topping DX3 Pro is a $219 DAC and headphone amp.


Indeed only $219 and if it cost 3 times more it would sound much better to some peoples ears. 

BTW I have 2 of theTopping DX3 Pro and mainly use it as a DAC. Its bluetooth sounds fantastic which is another bonus. My previous DAC was the Chord 2Qute and I much prefer the Topping. In my main system I power it with a 12 volt car batter and it sounds wonderful. I really don't heed measurements that much. I wonder if they had measured it using battery power if it would make much difference.


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## Racheski

chaotic_angel said:


> ups my bad, I mean E30 DAC + SP200


If you need a pre out, have sensitive IEMs, or are annoyed by the parallelogram shape of the SP200 and want a cute looking stack, then I would change to L30.  Otherwise they will sound the same, albeit the SP200 should be able to get louder.


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## sajunky (Aug 2, 2020)

cel4145 said:


> Dude. I have no interest in engaging in a debate about objectivism versus subjectivism. This has been done to death on the web over the last dozen years or so, and you are welcome to go Google it and read about it if you want to learn more.


People don't do google, for 'objectivism', they put Topping in a search box. I don't need do it anymore, *Dude* . Good measurements are fine, but we have to trust our ears. This is an ultimate test, no matter how you call it.

The last time I trusted an 'objective' ASR review for a top measurements champion, I wasted $130 on the Topping D30. It did sound an absolute trash, it was also a complete cheat, a real 'objective' malpractice.


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## Light - Man

sajunky said:


> People don't do google, for 'objectivism', they put Topping in a search box. I don't need do it anymore, *Dude* . Good measurements are fine, but we have to trust our ears. This is an ultimate test, no matter how you call it.
> 
> The last time I trusted an 'objective' ASR review for a top measurements champion, I wasted $130 on the Topping D30. It did sound an absolute trash, it was also a complete cheat, a real 'objective' malpractice.


Hey Bro, indeed the Topping D30 does not sound good but you only spent $130 on it and surely you could return it or sell it on.

My advice is to not judge Topping on just one product. For instance I also had the Topping D50s and I much prefer the Topping DX3 Pro.


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## cel4145

sajunky said:


> People don't do google, for 'objectivism', they put Topping in a search box. I don't need do it anymore, *Dude* . Good measurements are fine, but we have to trust our ears. This is an ultimate test, no matter how you call it.
> 
> The last time I trusted an 'objective' ASR review for a top measurements champion, I wasted $130 on the Topping D30. It did sound an absolute trash, it was also a complete cheat, a real 'objective' malpractice.



Dude, what makes you think I want to debate this with you either. Don't think I haven't seen you repeatedly crap posting in this thread about Topping. 

In fact, I feel certain that almost no one in this thread wants to talk about Topping amps with you. While that is my subjective opinion, I'm sure it is as accurate as the L30 amp is.

That being said, for anyone fairly new to the hobby who might be lurking in this thread, it took me about 15,000 comments and many years on Head-Fi (check my profile) to learn that subjective opinions about DACs and amps are far less reliable than measurements. I wish I had learned it sooner.


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## cel4145

Light - Man said:


> Hey Bro, indeed the Topping D30 does not sound good but you only spent $130 on it and surely you could return it or sell it on.
> 
> My advice is to not judge Topping on just one product. For instance I also had the Topping D50s and I much prefer the Topping DX3 Pro.



The D50S does not have a headphone amp. If you were plugging headphones into it, then it makes sense that you would like the DX3 Pro better, without that reflecting at all on the quality of the D50S as a DAC.


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## Light - Man

cel4145 said:


> The D50S does not have a headphone amp. If you were plugging headphones into it, then it makes sense that you would like the DX3 Pro better, without that reflecting at all on the quality of the D50S as a DAC.


Sorry Bro but just to make myself very clear, I thought that the D50s sounds absolutely Shiiit on a good speaker system however it did not sound too bad with a headphone amp and good headphones. You may like it but you would need to pay me a lot of money to use it but as soon as I took your money it would be straight into the bin!


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## Light - Man

Hey Bro, get yourself back on topic for f-sake!

Sorry Man but I am more interested to know what people think of the l30 amp, have I missed some opinions on it?


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## cel4145

Light - Man said:


> Sorry Bro but just to make myself very clear, I thought that the D50s sounds absolutely Shiiit on a good speaker system however it did not sound too bad with a headphone amp and good headphones. You may like it but you would need to pay me a lot of money to use it but as soon as I took your money it would be straight into the bin!



Must have been something wrong with your unit. Not only does it measure extremely accurate, which does not reflect what you're saying, but I've seen lots of positive subjective reviews, too.

Not to mention, that I own it, and it definitely does not sound bad. In fact, it doesn't sound like anything


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## sajunky (Aug 2, 2020)

cel4145 said:


> Must have been something wrong with your unit. Not only does it measure extremely accurate,


It can be fauly unit, or coming with fake opamps. The later is more likely if it was a problem from the beginning. Topping has a poor record in this regard.


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## Racheski

sajunky said:


> People don't do google, for 'objectivism', they put Topping in a search box. I don't need do it anymore, *Dude* . Good measurements are fine, but we have to trust our ears. This is an ultimate test, no matter how you call it.
> 
> The last time I trusted an 'objective' ASR review for a top measurements champion, I wasted $130 on the Topping D30. It did sound an absolute trash, it was also a complete cheat, a real 'objective' malpractice.


Do you think it is fair to dismiss an entire online community because of 1 review from 2017 you disagreed with?


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## motberg (Aug 2, 2020)

Light - Man said:


> Sorry Bro but just to make myself very clear, I thought that the D50s sounds absolutely Shiiit on a good speaker system however it did not sound too bad with a headphone amp and good headphones. You may like it but you would need to pay me a lot of money to use it but as soon as I took your money it would be straight into the bin!


agree 100%
I have a D50 - acoustic guitar sounds like plastic, bass lines are homogeneous and sound like they were recorded with a cheap DI box...
Had a D70, OK tone but no dynamics (Gustard A20H, same tonality but with normal dynamics restored)
both these measure well, but I get the feeling Topping designs for measurements only. No more buying stuff at ASR recommendation for me... (interesting for reference though)
Since there are good subjective reviews for their gear also, I am hoping this L30 meets with some decent subjective reviews, but actually I will probably wait until they release the higher end preamp.


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## XERO1

To try to get this thread back on topic - I got an email from Apos a couple days ago saying that their first batch of L30 amps had been delayed until around the 10th.

I’m really looking forward to getting this amp because I definitely preferred the A90 over the 789 when I compared them, and the L30 should pretty much be a “A90 Jr“ for around 1/3 the price!


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## chaotic_angel

bump this thread. Just need to read impression is it a neutral, warm or else 
I am satisfied and enjoy my adventure with SP200, if L30 is good / as good as SP200, I might let others buy my SP200


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## Racheski

XERO1 said:


> To try to get this thread back on topic - I got an email from Apos a couple days ago saying that their first batch of L30 amps had been delayed until around the 10th.
> 
> I’m really looking forward to getting this amp because I definitely preferred the A90 over the 789 when I compared them, and the L30 should pretty much be a “A90 Jr“ for around 1/3 the price!


Some of the folks who ordered early (not me) had theirs ship 2 days ago, so hopefully some impressions soon...


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## iamwhoiam (Aug 3, 2020)

sajunky said:


> Topping has a poor record in this regard.


...here we go, again.

Anyways... No one has received a retail product as of yet.

Looks like US customers will get theirs soon from Apos as they use DHL Express and they shipped out before the weekend.

I ordered to UK from Aoshida on day 1 and here is my update:






I'm expecting it to sound completely neutral based on Topping's design philosophy.


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## cel4145

Racheski said:


> Some of the folks who ordered early (not me) had theirs ship 2 days ago, so hopefully some impressions soon...



I ordered my L30 in the AM the first day they were available to pre-order from Apos Audio. It was shipped on Friday and is currently sitting in US customs, according to DHL tracking.


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## cel4145 (Aug 3, 2020)

chaotic_angel said:


> bump this thread. Just need to read impression is it a neutral, warm or else
> I am satisfied and enjoy my adventure with SP200, if L30 is good / as good as SP200, I might let others buy my SP200



Based on measurements by different people at ASR, while the L30 may have  lower noise and distortion and more power with low impedance when comparing single-ended mode with SP200, it seems highly unlikely you would be able to distinguish a difference due to how accurate both of them are

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...d-measurements-of-smsl-sp200-thx-hp-amp.9242/

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...asurement-of-topping-l30-headphone-amp.14252/


----------



## escalibur

cel4145 said:


> Based on measurements by different people at ASR, while the L30 may have  lower noise and distortion and more power with low impedance when comparing single-ended mode with SP200, it seems highly unlikely you would be able to distinguish a difference due to how accurate both of them are
> 
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...d-measurements-of-smsl-sp200-thx-hp-amp.9242/
> 
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...asurement-of-topping-l30-headphone-amp.14252/


L30 probably has a better volume control.


----------



## Racheski

cel4145 said:


> I ordered my L30 in the AM the first day they were available to pre-order from Apos Audio. It was shipped on Friday and is currently sitting in US customs, according to DHL tracking.


Gotcha.  Cmon DHL!


----------



## chaotic_angel

cel4145 said:


> Based on measurements by different people at ASR, while the L30 may have  lower noise and distortion and more power with low impedance when comparing single-ended mode with SP200, it seems highly unlikely you would be able to distinguish a difference due to how accurate both of them are
> 
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...d-measurements-of-smsl-sp200-thx-hp-amp.9242/
> 
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...asurement-of-topping-l30-headphone-amp.14252/



thank you, TBH i am not good in numbers, my math is terrible, LOL. I am more into subjective ears judgement. Will patiently waiting for some one to do comparison.


----------



## Makiah S (Aug 3, 2020)

So I've had L30 for about 3 hours now and so far with my Ether CX I'm really enjoying it. For a quick comparison I pulled out my SMSL SP200 and used a Schiit Sys to swap between the two amps.

I had E30 as my Dac and did use the XLR out of SMSL SP200, overall I found L30 was;


Less Fatiguing
Improved Cohesion & Staging

With CX SP200 was a bit more aggressive on the top end and the stage was lacking a little bit of that sense of 3D dimension, almost sounded kinda flat. While I don't feel L30 matches the staging precision, size or cohesiveness of my nicer Tube Amps, I did enjoy it's linear presentation & envelope. I was also kinda surprised at the improvement to Dynamic contrast overall with L30.

I'll certainly spend more time listening and continue to explore it's performance but so far I'm rather impressed with this $140 unit.


----------



## volly

Mshenay said:


> So I've had L30 for about 3 hours now and so far with my Ether CX I'm really enjoying it. For a quick comparison I pulled out my SMSL SP200 and used a Schiit Sys to swap between the two amps.
> 
> I had E30 as my Dac and did use the XLR out of SMSL SP200, overall I found L30 was;
> 
> ...


Nice nice! Sounds like a great first impressions mate! 

I've just received the SP200 and I tell ya...I really love it! The L30/E30 combo looks to be the best bang for buck combo I feel!

Ahhhh...My OCD is killing me....black on silver....hahaha...jokes! 

Looking forward to hearing more details brother!


----------



## Makiah S

volly said:


> Nice nice! Sounds like a great first impressions mate!
> 
> I've just received the SP200 and I tell ya...I really love it! The L30/E30 combo looks to be the best bang for buck combo I feel!
> 
> ...



Right, the real question is how does E30 L30 compare to Modius x SP 200, as Modius is a different animal with the XLR outs vs it's RCAs


----------



## volly

Mshenay said:


> Right, the real question is how does E30 L30 compare to Modius x SP 200, as Modius is a different animal with the XLR outs vs it's RCAs


You could almost feel Schiit are coming up with a newer Jotuheim sometime soon to finish off the Modius. I love Schiit, I do, I am lucky to have a few of their amps but down here in Australia, it just isn't worth it anymore to buy from Schiit sadly  

The Aussie dollar is poor compared to the Amero ;D But all is not lost...SMSL and Topping down this end of the world is actually decently priced. 

L30/E30 stack looks damn nice on the table though!


----------



## Makiah S

volly said:


> You could almost feel Schiit are coming up with a newer Jotuheim sometime soon to finish off the Modius. I love Schiit, I do, I am lucky to have a few of their amps but down here in Australia, it just isn't worth it anymore to buy from Schiit sadly
> 
> The Aussie dollar is poor compared to the Amero ;D But all is not lost...SMSL and Topping down this end of the world is actually decently priced.
> 
> L30/E30 stack looks damn nice on the table though!



Right, I dig that Topping has this stack as I know Schiit products can be difficult to get a hold of outside the US! An thanks, I do like mah table


----------



## chaotic_angel

Mshenay said:


> So I've had L30 for about 3 hours now and so far with my Ether CX I'm really enjoying it. For a quick comparison I pulled out my SMSL SP200 and used a Schiit Sys to swap between the two amps.
> 
> I had E30 as my Dac and did use the XLR out of SMSL SP200, overall I found L30 was;
> 
> ...



wow thanks, i am enjoying the picture and the impression! - So, according to you the L30 is a upgrade from SP200 in terms of sound and technicaties?


----------



## Makiah S (Aug 3, 2020)

chaotic_angel said:


> wow thanks, i am enjoying the picture and the impression! - So, according to you the L30 is a upgrade from SP200 in terms of sound and technicaties?



With E30 and Ether CX yea I'd say L30 is better technically in terms of sound stage width, depth and overall cohesion, tho I will need to see how other DACS compare as well as listen with a few other other headphones. Before I can say anything more definitive

I also didn't really hone in on how the two differed in terms of tonality or more specifically envelope


----------



## chaotic_angel

Mshenay said:


> With E30 and Ether CX yea I'd say L30 is better technically in terms of sound stage width, depth and overall cohesion, tho I will need to see how other DACS compare as well as listen with a few other other headphones. Before I can say anything more definitive
> 
> I also didn't really hone in on how the two differed in terms of tonality or more specifically envelope



Sweet definitely waiting for your next posting. I am contemplating of taking L30 or Zen Can. I have E30 + Zen Dac already.


----------



## Makiah S

chaotic_angel said:


> Sweet definitely waiting for your next posting. I am contemplating of taking L30 or Zen Can. I have E30 + Zen Dac already.



What? E30 and Zen Dac? Zen Dac [which I also have for review this week go figure] is a Dac/Amp are you using just the analog in of Zen Dac?

An yea I can include Zen Dac as a Dac/Amp into the E30 L30 content


----------



## chaotic_angel

Mshenay said:


> What? E30 and Zen Dac? Zen Dac [which I also have for review this week go figure] is a Dac/Amp are you using just the analog in of Zen Dac?
> 
> An yea I can include Zen Dac as a Dac/Amp into the E30 L30 content



I am thinking to get either L30 or Zen Can to pair with E30 and my Zen Dac. 
For Zen Dac I use the headphone out, mostly the 4.4 BAL and use Zen Dac RCA out to my SP200.


----------



## Makiah S

chaotic_angel said:


> I am thinking to get either L30 or Zen Can to pair with E30 and my Zen Dac.
> For Zen Dac I use the headphone out, mostly the 4.4 BAL and use Zen Dac RCA out to my SP200.



Huh, what do you think of SP200 in relation to Zen Dac's 4.4 out? [I'll give my thoughts on both of those and L30 here shortly as well so It'll be nice to have your impressions of two pieces I'll be comparing L30 to as a reference point]


----------



## chaotic_angel

Mshenay said:


> Huh, what do you think of SP200 in relation to Zen Dac's 4.4 out? [I'll give my thoughts on both of those and L30 here shortly as well so It'll be nice to have your impressions of two pieces I'll be comparing L30 to as a reference point]



Currently still RCA out only to SP200 (due to my 4.4 Bal to XLR cable is still not yet finished), on my ears, SP200 maintain the original source thrown at it, Zen Dac sound neutral to warm and good details, and also I found RCA input on SP200 background sounds cleaner than the XLR one.


----------



## Makiah S

Yea I can see that, and honestly SMSL mentioned that RCA in XLR out was the most optimal way to run SP200 given how it's designed. 

An I'll have to fire up both now and give em a listen. I did get an XLR to 4.4mm BAL cable the other day,tho I'm US based so I was able to get one Prime shipped

Give me a moment and I'll give ya some thoughts of SP 200 RCA IN XLR out vs ZEN Dac & L30 with HD 600


----------



## chaotic_angel

Mshenay said:


> Yea I can see that, and honestly SMSL mentioned that RCA in XLR out was the most optimal way to run SP200 given how it's designed.
> 
> An I'll have to fire up both now and give em a listen. I did get an XLR to 4.4mm BAL cable the other day,tho I'm US based so I was able to get one Prime shipped
> 
> Give me a moment and I'll give ya some thoughts of SP 200 RCA IN XLR out vs ZEN Dac & L30 with HD 600



Sweet, I am patiently (but I lied) waiting hahaha


----------



## Makiah S (Aug 4, 2020)

So I'll be 100% honest, Zen DAC into L30 imo is not better than Zen Dac 4.4mm Out. L30 is kinda better than Zen Dac's 6.5mm out but not better than it's 4.4mm out

That balanced of Zen Dac is no joke man!!! Seriously impressive, tho I am using the iFi iPower 5V SWPS so the overall cost of ZenDac as I'm listening is... like $210, $50 for the clean PSU and $40 for the 4pin XLR to 4.4mm Bal

Now that said, E30 into L30... YEA that's imo a small but discernible step above Zen Dac 4.4, I've been listening thru the Chesky Demo Disc [90's Ultimate Speaker DEMO Disc] Rebecca Pigeon performing Spanish Harlem and Taylor Livingston doing Grandma's Hands were my go to tracks

both the 6.5mm of Zen DAC and Zen DAC RCA[Fixed] into L30 was kinda soft in the bass, gave HD 600 a slight soft excessively round veil in the lows I did NOT like.

How ever 4.4mm BAL of Zen and E30/L30 had a more taut bass response, the double bass had both it's proper reverb AND some power behind it.



Spoiler: Pics or it Didn't Happen


----------



## chaotic_angel

Mshenay said:


> So I'll be 100% honest, Zen DAC into L30 imo is not better than Zen Dac 4.4mm Out. L30 is kinda better than Zen Dac's 6.5mm out but not better than it's 4.4mm out
> 
> That balanced of Zen Dac is no joke man!!! Seriously impressive, tho I am using the iFi iPower 5V SWPS so the overall cost of ZenDac as I'm listening is... like $210, $50 for the clean PSU and $40 for the 4pin XLR to 4.4mm Bal
> 
> ...



thanks once again for your impression really helps a lot


----------



## qaz2004

Greetings,
I have been reading a while, I joined because I have some hopefully relevant input.  I received my L30 yesterday, I was looking for a replacement for my lexicon mc-1 preamp which had a stroke.  I was using a cheap 2 tube (with blue lights) headphone amp from China as a pinch hitter but it was flat and uninvolving.  System is Thiel 3.6, Adcom 5400 and a Cambridge Audio 540D disk player with a Schiit modi 2 added sometimes.  I read this thread and because it was $130 and a brand new release I thought I would give it a try.  Apos got it here yesterday and I've listened about 5 hours so far.  Initial impressions are awesome.  From the minute I turned it on, the system had that real sparkle to it that sucks me right in.  Definition, soundstage, timbre, pacing, all just right.  I really enjoy falling into the music, picking out details and interplay not usually noticed.  I'd say it's a little more involving than the mc-1 as a preamp.


----------



## tglodjo

qaz2004 said:


> Apos got it here yesterday and I've listened about 5 hours so far.  Initial impressions are awesome.  From the minute I turned it on, the system had that real sparkle to it that sucks me right in.  Definition, soundstage, timbre, pacing, all just right.  I really enjoy falling into the music, picking out details and interplay not usually noticed.  I'd say it's a little more involving than the mc-1 as a preamp.



Thanks for the impressions. I purchased the L30/E30 stack and am patiently waiting for them to arrive. Was given an expected shipping date of August 10, so I'm hoping to read some good impressions and reviews between now and then.


----------



## zenki

L30's a beast


----------



## Zuetsu (Aug 5, 2020)

I purchased the stack from Aoshida on AliExpress and it got here (The Netherlands) faster than expected. Also didn't have to pay any taxes luckily. First impressions with Utopia, it sounds really good for such a small stack. Another Topping product I have is the DX3Pro (V1) and I rate this higher than that one, especially in the bass as DX3Pro can be a little too soft sometimes. As for signature I'd say this is as neutral as it gets. 1 small question to other owners: Do you also have some little play with the volume knob before actually changing the volume?

Edit: read somewhere else this is normal and imo it isn't really troublesome


----------



## Muataz

Zuetsu said:


> I purchased the stack from Aoshida on AliExpress and it got here (The Netherlands) faster than expected. Also didn't have to pay any taxes luckily. First impressions with Utopia, it sounds really good for such a small stack. Another Topping product I have is the DX3Pro (V1) and I rate this higher than that one, especially in the bass as DX3Pro can be a little too soft sometimes. As for signature I'd say this is as neutral as it gets. 1 small question to other owners: Do you also have some little play with the volume knob before actually changing the volume?
> 
> Edit: read somewhere else this is normal and imo it isn't really troublesome



Thanks for sharing, which other DAC/amp you tried with utopia and you can compare it to L30


----------



## iamwhoiam

My L30 came today, but with a fairly fundamental issue for UK customers...

Plug supplied is EU with adaptor and it doesn't stay in place.


----------



## Muataz

iamwhoiam said:


> My L30 came today, but with a fairly fundamental issue for UK customers...
> 
> Plug supplied is EU with adaptor and it doesn't stay in place.


Get ifi power X with UK outlet


----------



## iamwhoiam (Aug 6, 2020)

Muataz said:


> Get ifi power X with UK outlet


Thanks but no thanks:

1) Topping L30 requires AC voltage.
2) The adapter you have mentioned costs 66% the cost of the amp itself. I could build a linear DC power supply with 2uV ripple (Die-Noizator schematic by Elvee) for about £20.
3) Topping L30 requires AC voltage.
4) I paid for a UK adapter. 





5) Topping L30 requires AC voltage.


----------



## sajunky

@iamwhoiam. Get better quality adaptor. Euro plug will come handy when you go back to EU. .LOL.


----------



## Cat Music

Interesting comparisons. Can anyone compare JDS Labs Atom Amp vs L30?


----------



## iamwhoiam (Aug 7, 2020)

sajunky said:


> @iamwhoiam. Get better quality adaptor. Euro plug will come handy when you go back to EU. .LOL.


I think they just sent the wrong plug in fairness. Contacted Topping and my seller, who is replacing it with UK plug (via FedEx too).


----------



## iamwhoiam

*Things I like about the L30:*

The output delay relays to protect from power transients, as well as the output selection relays rather than switches. The fact that the relay times aren't dependent on a "cold" or a "hot" start suggests it is IC controlled, rather than resistor/capacitor time constants. John the designer is much smarter than me though so he may have found a way to do this very simply. Very smart in the design specification to include that as it means Topping won't need to deal with any complaints of fried low impedance gear. Perhaps the transients weren't big enough to damage headphones, but it's nice to have a silent start and shutdown.
The size is perfect and the match with the E30 stack is overall lovely. I really quite like the gloss panels on both.
The VAC wall plug with internal regulation is my preference in terms of size/performance/cost, but as from other threads, this is somewhat subjective (although I suspect those others have not taken in all the technical and economical considerations). Just hope that Topping's distributors can sort out the geographical differences as I had a slight hitch with mine (nothing to do with Topping).
The pot on mine feels smooth, so not sure what others have experienced.
Gain levels of x0.33, x1, x3 is perfect and suits almost every scenario that I can think of. The input sensitivity is very generous which means good compatibility.
Things that I *personally* would have done differently (nb: all *subjective opinion and minor*):

The RCA E30+L30 stack alignment is off slightly, but it's much better than the Schiit stack.
The same is true of the front panel description text next to L30 / E30.
The headphone socket is too close to the volume knob for my fat fingers.
The "off" state of the LED could be a bit more obvious. Perhaps some tinting.
Just ran through some FLAC Adele albums with 32ohm (TYGR 300 R) and 300ohm (HD650). The sound is neutral, and power is more than adequate. I don't think any more adjectives are required about the sound. It's as transparent as you're going to get. Can I hear much difference between this and my Objective 2 built by me? Not really. But it matches my E30 and has silent power on and off / protection.

Overall *10/10* for the performance versus value. I'd really struggle to find any reason why you'd pay any more money for an unbalanced amp. Well done Topping / John.


----------



## tglodjo

Excellent impressions and points of feedback. Now I'm even more excited for mine to arrive! I only wish the E30 LED colors were changeable in order to coordinate with the L30's red and black.


----------



## cel4145

Cat Music said:


> Interesting comparisons. Can anyone compare JDS Labs Atom Amp vs L30?



I have both. Sound the same. 

L30 has more power and a toggle switch to go between headphone out or preamp out. Atom has two inputs with switch for it on the front.


----------



## XERO1

I've got a silver L30 or sale here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/topping-l30-silver.939264/


----------



## tglodjo

XERO1 said:


> I've got a silver L30 or sale here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/topping-l30-silver.939264/


Thoughts on it after you used it a bit? I see you have a Magni Heresy, which is what I have and am wondering what the L30 will bring to the table over it.


----------



## XERO1 (Aug 8, 2020)

tglodjo said:


> Thoughts on it after you used it a bit? I see you have a Magni Heresy, which is what I have and am wondering what the L30 will bring to the table over it.


I got my Lyr 3 around the same time as the L30, and I've been giving the majority of my attention to the Lyr cuz it just sounds so damn good! 

But I'll do a shootout between the Heresy and L30 in the next couple days and get back to you with my thoughts. 

But FYI, the reason why I'm keeping the Heresy over the L30 is simply becasue it fits perfectly in the space I needed an amp to fit into.


----------



## cel4145

tglodjo said:


> Thoughts on it after you used it a bit? I see you have a Magni Heresy, which is what I have and am wondering what the L30 will bring to the table over it.



Unless you need the additional power of the L30, you're unlikely to notice any sonic benefits from upgrading.


----------



## tglodjo

cel4145 said:


> Unless you need the additional power of the L30, you're unlikely to notice any sonic benefits from upgrading.


True, and I expect that. I'm just taking that in to consideration with the overall user experience. For example, having the pre-amp and headphone amp switch on the front and not having to unplug the jack like you do on the Heresy. I'm also not a fan of the Heresy's volume pot. I fixed the scratchiness, but I still don't care for the feel of its movement and texture. The sound, however, is great. And I definitely agree that I most likely won't hear much difference in the sound produced by the L30.


----------



## cel4145 (Aug 9, 2020)

tglodjo said:


> True, and I expect that. I'm just taking that in to consideration with the overall user experience. For example, having the pre-amp and headphone amp switch on the front and not having to unplug the jack like you do on the Heresy. I'm also not a fan of the Heresy's volume pot. I fixed the scratchiness, but I still don't care for the feel of its movement and texture. The sound, however, is great. And I definitely agree that I most likely won't hear much difference in the sound produced by the L30.



The volume knob is very solid. Has enough tension that it doesn't turn too easily. However, I have a headphone extension plugged in to the jack. I have an XL thumb, so the volume knob is a little too close. My thumb doesn't really fit in between the jack extension I have and the knob. I personally would be happier if the L30 used the D50S case shape so that things were spaced out a little more on the front and it could use bigger toggles.

The toggle switch is certainly nice for not having to unplug headphones to switch to preamp out. But they are so tiny they look like they were built for action figures, not human beings. I would rather have the switches like Audio GD units have or a little bit larger thicker toggles.

The swiches are solid to flip up and down. But if I apply a little pressure to the left or right I can tell there's a touch of play. Given their tiny size, I would wonder if this is not the primary point of failure for the amp for anyone who uses their headphone amp daily and switches a couple times back and forth between headphones and speakers. Hopefully, they're meant to be flipped 10,000 times.

The heavy adapter transformer on the end of the power cable is giant, as big and as heavy as they come, and will likely take up two spots or more on any power strip. I think the cord could be a little longer, as doubtful it would reach from one side of the desk to another to a power strip. And as a consequence, I hope no one wants to use this with a standing desk because that heavy adapter hanging in the air is going to pull on the connection into the amp.

I used to be a visual designer in a previous life, and the text on the front of the amp uses a light gray that has low visibility. The problem is compounded by the plexiglass which can pick up reflection. Of course, this is really only a usability issue when you first get it. I plugged it in the first time at night, so I used my phone flashlight to see which was the headphone and which was the preamp position. Someone's going to quickly memorize that. Still it bugs me as a designer as making the writing more visible is not hard.

And, I am worried about the plexiglass cover over the face as some plexiglass tends to scratch pretty easily. I've had plexiglass that scratches if you get a grain of sand on it and dust it off. I would have preferred not having that covering at all.


----------



## tglodjo

This is awesome, and exactly the kind of information I’ve been looking for. Thank you!


----------



## Celty

A new review and measurements at ASR today - this time on a production unit rather than the pre-production one reviewed earlier:
Topping L30 Headphone Amplifier Review

Got a "I can't recommend the Topping L30 strongly enough. It is superb engineering in small package and low cost. Get one and thank yourself that you live in this era and not a few years ago. " conclusion. That is high praise indeed.


----------



## Muataz

This is the purest amp ever made for any price. IEM owners must own this amp.


----------



## Francisk

Just purchased the Topping L30 yesterday night. Should arrive in 10 days or so. Can't wait to compare the L30 with my JDS Labs Atom


----------



## cel4145

Francisk said:


> Just purchased the Topping L30 yesterday night. Should arrive in 10 days or so. Can't wait to compare the L30 with my JDS Labs Atom



It's going to sound the same as the Atom. And based on audio science reviews recent measurements, the Atom has slightly more headphone amp power with most DACs, as the specs that Topping released depend on 9V DAC output.


----------



## sajunky

cel4145 said:


> It's going to sound the same as the Atom. And based on audio science reviews recent measurements, the Atom has slightly more headphone amp power with most DACs, as the specs that Topping released depend on 9V DAC output.


L30 has non-standard very low input impedance, similar to A90. It cause a lower output volume than nominal when driven by a high impedance device: DACs with a passive output (for example all Denafrips or SMSL M400) and it also can lead to a high frequency roll-off. I didn't see a review, but I bet, such scenario wasn't tested on ASR, it was rather driven by a standard RCA output which is well below 100 Ohms and it doesn't expose a problem.


----------



## Francisk

cel4145 said:


> It's going to sound the same as the Atom. And based on audio science reviews recent measurements, the Atom has slightly more headphone amp power with most DACs, as the specs that Topping released depend on 9V DAC output.


I've never used my Atom in high gain mode for my Sundara nor HD600 so it really doesn't bother me at all.


----------



## M3NTAL

Have any internal photos of the L30 been published yet?


----------



## Attalal

When you set this to off mode, does the output go to line level output/passthrough like the A50 does? Or is it just off?


----------



## XERO1 (Aug 13, 2020)

tglodjo said:


> Thoughts on it after you used it a bit? I see you have a Magni Heresy, which is what I have and am wondering what the L30 will bring to the table over it.


OK, I did a little A-B shootout between the L30 and the Schiit Heresy and long story short, in all but one catagory, I much prefered the sound of the L30 over the Heresy. 

The only catagory that the Heresy came out on top for me was the size of it's soundstage.  The L30 had a more compact soundstage when directly compared to the Heresy.

But with everything else, the L30 was definitely my favorite of the two.  It simply allowed more of the natural resolution of the music to come through, and it didn't get 'shouty' as the music became more dynamic and complex.  It kept everything well under control, whereas the Heresy would start to sound more 'in yer face' as the music got more complex and/or dynamically compressed. Bass response was pretty much a draw between the two. Of all the under-$150 amps I've owned so far (Liquid Spark, Magni 3+, Magni Heresy, L30), I'd have to say the L30 is my favorite of the bunch. For a $140 amp, the L30's did surprisingly little wrong and got quite a bit right. I was really impressed by it! 

Other bonuses - it has it's power switch on the front (what a concept!), it has 3 gain-level settings (I thought the High setting sounded the best), and it has a nice smooth-feeling volume knob.

Possible issues - the shiny plastic used on it's faceplate and volume knob are just _waiting_ to get scratched up, it runs pretty warm (so probably not a good idea to stack anything on top of it).

Overall, the L30 definitely gets a thumbs-up from me.  It's a great little amp, and perfect for anyone looking to get some really good SQ from a compact amp that won't take up much space on their desk.


----------



## tglodjo

XERO1 said:


> Overall, the L30 definitely gets a thumbs-up from me.  It's a great little amp, and perfect for anyone looking to get some really good SQ from a very compact amp that won't take up much space on their desk.



Thanks for the update. I received mine this afternoon, along with the E30. From a user experience point of view, the feel of the volume knob and the front-facing switches is enough for me to replace my Heresy with it lol.


----------



## BWythani (Aug 13, 2020)

Got this in... Btr5 and hd6xx. Seems comparatively quiet/lacking in power next to my zen can and magni 2. Hoping for different results when the e30 comes in.


----------



## chaotic_angel

BWythani said:


> Got this in... Btr5 and hd6xx. Seems comparatively quiet/lacking in power next to my zen can and magni 2. Hoping for different results when the e30 comes in.



 please keep us posted, curious comparation between Zen Can & L30 + E30


----------



## tglodjo

BWythani said:


> Got this in... Btr5 and hd6xx. Seems comparatively quiet/lacking in power next to my zen can and magni 2. Hoping for different results when the e30 comes in.



How loud do you listen? I have the HD6XX and can’t even max volume on 0dB (unity setting?), let alone high gain, before it’s too loud. Definitely not experiencing any issues in terms of power output.


----------



## Muataz

XERO1 said:


> OK, I did a little A-B shootout between the L30 and the Schiit Heresy and long story short, in all but one catagory, I much prefered the sound of the L30 over the Heresy.
> 
> The only catagory that the Heresy came out on top for me was the size of it's soundstage.  The L30 had a more compact soundstage when directly compared to the Heresy.
> 
> ...


What DAC you used with it ?


----------



## XERO1

Muataz said:


> What DAC you used with it ?


Bifrost 2


----------



## GunGrave

It sounds like the synergy between E30 and L30 is real.
I already have an E30 but not so sure if I should get the L30 as I am ordering a set of Hifiman Deva. On the one hand, it would benefit from an amp with better sound stage and warmth. On the other....a neutral stack like E30+L30 is probably more versatile and best in the long run.


----------



## BWythani (Aug 15, 2020)

tglodjo said:


> How loud do you listen? I have the HD6XX and can’t even max volume on 0dB (unity setting?), let alone high gain, before it’s too loud. Definitely not experiencing any issues in terms of power output.


I got a chance to use modi with it.  +9 at about halfway up the knob is my listening level, but it just sounds odd. Hard to describe.

It's fine at very low levels, but halfway up the soundstage gets smaller and everything gets muddled soundin- like a bad mp3. Clipping perhaps?

For comparison, magni2 is much clearer at the same volume.

Zen can sounds better than both at any volume. 

Also, I found it eats a lot of desk space. If I stack it near either of my dacs it picks up a lot of noise. If I keep it, I'll have to make a little stand so it can be on its side.


----------



## tglodjo

BWythani said:


> I got a chance to use modi with it.  +9 at about halfway up the knob is my listening level, but it just sounds odd. Hard to describe.
> 
> It's fine at very low levels, but halfway up the soundstage gets smaller and everything gets muddled soundin- like a bad mp3. Clipping perhaps?
> 
> ...


Weird. I have my L30 and Heresy and have no power/volume issues from either. And I don't get any noise from the L30 based on its placement on my desk. I have a monitor, Vanatoo T0 active speaker, Heresy and G6, E30, and PC case all near it. No noise. I have it at +0 and can't go past 12 o'clock with the HD6XX without it being too loud for me. Wonder if there's something defective with yours.


----------



## starence (Aug 15, 2020)

BWythani said:


> Got this in... Btr5 and hd6xx. Seems comparatively quiet/lacking in power next to my zen can and magni 2. Hoping for different results when the e30 comes in.


Is your DAC at 100 percent? Modi doesn't have a volume control, but whatever you have it hooked up to probably does.


----------



## jsmiller58

BWythani said:


> Got this in... Btr5 and hd6xx. Seems comparatively quiet/lacking in power next to my zen can and magni 2. Hoping for different results when the e30 comes in.


Just in case, make sure the volume on your source is turned up to full, then adjust up or down the volume on the BTR5.


----------



## BWythani

starence said:


> Is your DAC at 100 percent? Modi doesn't have a volume control, but whatever you have it hooked up to probably does.


Yes.


jsmiller58 said:


> Just in case, make sure the volume on your source is turned up to full, then adjust up or down the volume on the BTR5.


Yep it is.


----------



## GunGrave

Sounds like the L30 is highly dependent on the DAC output. That sounds quite disappointing...for something that can output 1W into 30ohms to ever sound quiet.
Also..am I the only one who noticed the measurements indicate 1W@30ohms while Topping advertises 2 X 2.2W@32ohm ?


----------



## starence (Aug 16, 2020)

My L30 was just delivered today. It has more than enough power for the HD 650 on medium gain, with a 2V RMS DAC. I have the dial at about 11 o'clock, so there's plenty of headroom. Unless you have some very inefficient planars, there should be plenty of juice.

Thank you Apos Audio for the free shipping upgrade, only took 4 days to get to the Western US from China.


----------



## cel4145

starence said:


> My L30 was just delivered today. It has more than enough power for the HD 650 on medium gain, with a 2V RMS DAC. I have the dial at about 11 o'clock, so there's plenty of headroom. Unless you have some very inefficient planars, there should be plenty of juice.
> 
> Thank you Apos Audio for the free shipping upgrade, only took 4 days to get to the Western US from China.



I agree. I was just running the L30 with a Tempotec Sonata HD Pro which has 2V output. 1:30 is about as loud as I like to listen on medium gain. Plenty of power.


----------



## NA Blur

My silver L30 arrived so I can do some E30, L30, Heresy, and 780 comparisons. Looks like a nice unit.


----------



## jsmiller58

NA Blur said:


> My silver L30 arrived so I can do some E30, L30, Heresy, and 780 comparisons. Looks like a nice unit.


Awesome!  Looking forward to the comparison between the Heresy and the L30.  I want to upgrade my Atom since it seems underpowered (particularly with my MrSpeakers CX) and will likely get one of those two.


----------



## cel4145 (Sep 8, 2020)

jsmiller58 said:


> Awesome!  Looking forward to the comparison between the Heresy and the L30.  I want to upgrade my Atom since it seems underpowered (particularly with my MrSpeakers CX) and will likely get one of those two.


Note that the output that Topping has specified in their literature is with a high DAC voltage input.

Most people probably have a standard 2V DAC. With that, the L30 and Atom have about the same output at 32 ohms, and the Atom has about twice as much output at 300 ohms. Check ASR's measurements of each.


----------



## chillysalsa

GunGrave said:


> Also..am I the only one who noticed the measurements indicate 1W@30ohms while Topping advertises 2 X 2.2W@32ohm ?


That may be because they are quoting different output power at different distortion % levels. 

Anyone open it up to see inside? This seems to have the same NFCA architecture as the A90, chances that it will look pretty similar inside, only a little cropped pictures of the transparent heatsinks shown on their website. I think having nearly everything integrated into one chip that can implement huge amounts of negative feedback is the only way to achieve such low distortion levels.


----------



## cel4145

chillysalsa said:


> That may be because they are quoting different output power at different distortion % levels.



No. See my post right before yours.

Those headphone amp output numbers are based upon using a DAC that has 9V output. Most of us have DACs that are 2V, so you're not going to get anywhere close to that.


----------



## NA Blur

UPDATE
I have been listening to the L30 for a few hours and comparing it against the Schiit Heresy. My stack consists of a Schiit Modius / Topping E30 DAC feeding either a Heresy or L30 amp. I also have a Drop AAA 789 for reference. My playlist is given at the end of the review. I also connect my DAC's to the PC using an optical cable to remove any unwanted USB issues.

The differences are:

L30 runs warmer ( not hot )
L30 has better gain control ( 3 settings vs the Heresy's 2 )
L30 does not make a buzzing sound when inserting RCA connectors into the input when the volume knob is turned up. The Heresy hums briefly.

Both amps supply ample power to my HE-400i planars. Both sound very clean with no discernable distortion. Both control bass very well and have low output impedances.
I can get the 400i to very loud levels on the 0dB setting ( middle gain ).

Suggestions:
I would wait to order an L30 to see if overheating or other issues arise in the first few months of production. This is a brand new product and I hate for you to invest in something that may get a few improvements soon.

If you own an Atom or Heresy there is NO reason to upgrade. All of these amps sound so similar if not identical that you are better putting your money into new headphones or music. If you are looking at a new headphone amp then the L30 is awesome for sure and stacks perfectly onto the E30 DAC from Topping.

PLAYLIST
https://music.amazon.com/user-playl...musicTerritory=US&marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER


----------



## BWythani (Aug 17, 2020)

Well I have the E30 in the stack now. Hd580 sounds great at 10:00 0db.  it doesn't seem to have the same problems that it did with the BTR5 or the modi dac.

It doesn't pick up any interference noise from the E30 either like it did with my other dacs.

I'm pretty satisfied with the whole thing as a unit at this point. Im excited to see how ir does with my lcd-gx coming on Thursday


----------



## starence

Hey dudes, I created a new thread to discuss the E30 DAC. Check it out.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/topping-e30-dac-preamp.940093/


----------



## GunGrave (Aug 18, 2020)

New review channel and the L30 is the first review:

Looks like thermals might be an issue for longer listening sessions. 
The big question is....will there be degradation over time.


----------



## Muataz

Thermal is not an issue. this is how it operates


----------



## GunGrave

Well...since he observed some channel signal issues after the unit got hotter, it does not sound to me as normal.


----------



## Josz27 (Aug 18, 2020)

Hi, Seems that L30 performance may vary from the dac you have, it is only about power or it affects sound qualuty?


cel4145 said:


> No. See my post right before yours.
> 
> Those headphone amp output numbers are based upon using a DAC that has 9V output. Most of us have DACs that are 2V, so you're not going to get anywhere close to that.







So if I have a HRT Mircrostreamer DAC that has 2.25V RMS at full scale (http://www.highresolutiontechnologies.com/support/uS.pdf) I would not take adventage of topping L30? Apart from loudness, would I be missing something in Sound quality from the L30?


----------



## cel4145

Josz27 said:


> Hi, Seems that L30 performance may vary from the dac you have, it is only about power or it affects sound qualuty?
> 
> 
> 
> So if I have a HRT Mircrostreamer DAC that has 2.25V RMS at full scale (http://www.highresolutiontechnologies.com/support/uS.pdf) I would not take adventage of topping L30? Apart from loudness, would I be missing something in Sound quality from the L30?



Almost no one has a DAC that can put out 9V and take full advantage of the L30's potential power.

As to whether or not you can fully take advantage of the L30, that depends on your headphones. A lot of people don't need any more power than it can generate with 2V input.


----------



## Rhin0z

I have been listening to the l30 e30 combo since July 10.  I have never turned them off.  The l30 gets really warm but not hot because I can hold my hand on it. No issues with volume knob. All music played through pc>optical>amazon music hd. E30 reads 192khz.  The headphone out and preamp switch is the best feature for me, so during the day I listen through the adam t5v  and late night akg712 and t50rp.  I am pleased with the width, depth and imaging. cymbals  sound like cymbals.  I did not change any of the filters. I cannot tell the difference anyway.
The only thing missing for me is the holographic presentation so im going to put a valhalla 2 between e30 and l30 if it works this will be end game form me.  The presentation for large  complex orchestra music was not good and sounded lost, just asking too much from this combo.

I mostly listen to female vocals. small jazz quartets quintets, solo cello and piano

vanessa rubin--        whatever happens
nnenna freelon--       the tears of a clown
kandace springs- -     new york minute
rachelle ferrell--          you dont know what love is (live montruex)
sasha masakowski--  skyfall ( live at new orleans jazz play house)


----------



## NA Blur

Heat issues are definitely something to keep an eye out with the L30 amp as they ran into heat issues during the initial design phases. Looks like they mostly resolved them though. I tested my L30 for an hour on high gain with a pair of planars with no channel issues, but having a higher impedance headphone and running at even higher volumes may be a stronger test.


----------



## GunGrave

DMS initial impressions.

I am really starting to think that there is not much substance after the hype.
Mediocre soundstage, modest bass, gentle highs, not more powerful than existing options but more expensive than some.


----------



## Francisk (Aug 20, 2020)

GunGrave said:


> DMS initial impressions.
> 
> I am really starting to think that there is not much substance after the hype.
> Mediocre soundstage, modest bass, gentle highs, not more powerful than existing options but more expensive than some.



Lol....DMS is describing the sound quality of the DAC or his headphone, not the L30 amp


----------



## XERO1 (Aug 20, 2020)

cel4145 said:


> Note that the output that Topping has specified in their literature is with a 9V DAC input.




This is refering to the input sensitivity of the amp.  As the gain level is reduced, a higher voltage input level is required to allow the amp to reach it's output clipping point.

So in the case of the L30, in order for it to reach it's clipping point, it needs 3V at High gain, 9V and Medium gain, and 25V at Low gain.

Some DACs have a higher than 2V output level (at 0dBFS), but it is extremely rare for any DAC to have an output level over 3V from its RCA outputs. So even at High gain, it will be unlikely that you can cause this amp to clip, even if you have the volume knob turned all the way to its maximum endpoint.


----------



## Arniesb

GunGrave said:


> DMS initial impressions.
> 
> I am really starting to think that there is not much substance after the hype.
> Mediocre soundstage, modest bass, gentle highs, not more powerful than existing options but more expensive than some.



This guy have very limited  knowledge so i dont take his words seriously. He have as much knowledge and Zeos...


----------



## cel4145

XERO1 said:


> This is refering to the input sensitivity of the amp.  As the gain level is reduced, a higher voltage input level is required to allow the amp to reach it's output clipping point.
> 
> So in the case of the L30, in order for it to reach it's clipping point, it needs 3V at High gain, 9V and Medium gain, and 25V at Low gain.
> 
> Some DACs have a higher than 2V output level (at 0dBFS), but it is extremely rare for any DAC to have an output level over 3V from its RCA outputs. So even at High gain, it will be unlikely that you can cause this amp to clip, even if you have the volume knob turned all the way to its maximum endpoint.



Good to know.

So the maximum output from the L30 that Topping has listed of 2300mw at 32 ohms happens at 3V on high gain? Or is it 5V on medium gain?

I know that Amir's measurements at ASR, the one that shows the L30 performs the same as the Atom at 32 ohms and less at 300 ohms on high gain, is using the standard 2V.


----------



## Rhin0z

Rhin0z said:


> I have been listening to the l30 e30 combo since July 10.  I have never turned them off.  The l30 gets really warm but not hot because I can hold my hand on it. No issues with volume knob. All music played through pc>optical>amazon music hd. E30 reads 192khz.  The headphone out and preamp switch is the best feature for me, so during the day I listen through the adam t5v  and late night akg712 and t50rp.  I am pleased with the width, depth and imaging. cymbals  sound like cymbals.  I did not change any of the filters. I cannot tell the difference anyway.
> The only thing missing for me is the holographic presentation so im going to put a valhalla 2 between e30 and l30 if it works this will be end game form me.  The presentation for large  complex orchestra music was not good and sounded lost, just asking too much from this combo.
> 
> I mostly listen to female vocals. small jazz quartets quintets, solo cello and piano
> ...




YMMV  The beautiful width depth and imaging described above  with t5v akg712 and t50rp were all with the amp on high gain.  when I switched to zero or low gain all of that dissappeared very flat and one dimensional sound not pleasing at all.  engineers can figure this one out.  Its just what I heard.


----------



## oldmate (Aug 22, 2020)

Nevermind.


----------



## starence

My L30 has quite a loose headphone jack, there's very little resistance when plugging in or unplugging headphones. Do you guys have the same experience, or is my amp possibly defective?


----------



## Francisk (Aug 24, 2020)

I received my L30 a few days ago and did an AB comparison volume matched by ear with my JDS Labs Atom set to low gain and L30 at 0dB gain setting. My comparison was done with the DX3 Pro (1st Gen) running in DAC mode and HifiMan Sundara headphone. After a few days of comparison, I've found that the Atom is slightly more powerful with a slightly wider soundstage. The L30 seems to add a little more decay on the upper lows or lower mids area which adds a little more body to that frequency range whereas the Atom has less decay and gives a tighter response in that region with nice low frequency extension.

As for the high frequencies, it's the direct opposite with the L30 producing shorter decay whereas the Atom produces a little more decay making it sound more airy in high frequency region. The Atom also reproduce instrument separation much more clearly though it's not night and day's difference, you can definitely tell the difference especially with the Sundara headphone. Fast percussive transients are reproduced equally well on both amps and mid frequency region is on par with both amps too.

My conclusion after few days of listening is that both the L30 and Atom are very good headphone amps at super affordable price so I'm keeping both. I'll most likely use the L30 with brighter headphones and the Atom will be my preference when I want a more transparent sound. This is of course not a full review of the L30 but just my own personal experience with both the L30 and Atom....YMMV.


----------



## Cat Music

Francisk said:


> I received my L30 a few days ago and did an AB comparison volume matched by ear with my JDS Labs Atom set to low gain and L30 at 0dB gain setting. My comparison was done with the DX3 Pro (1st Gen) running in DAC mode and HifiMan Sundara headphone. After a few days of comparison, I've found that the Atom is slightly more powerful with a slightly wider soundstage. The L30 seems to add a little more decay on the upper lows or lower mids area which gives a little more body to that frequency range whereas the Atom has less decay and gives a tighter response in that region with nice low frequency extension...tight and extended.
> 
> As for the high frequencies, it's the direct opposite with the L30 producing shorter decay whereas the Atom produces a little more decay making it sound more airy in high frequency region. The Atom also reproduce layers of instrumentation much more clearly though it's not night and day's difference, you can definitely tell the difference especially with the Sundara headphone. Fast percussive transients are reproduced equally well on both amps and mid frequency region is about on par with both amps too.
> 
> My conclusion after few days of listening is that both the Atom and L30 are very good headphone amps at super affordable price so I'm keeping both. I'll most likely use the L30 with brighter headphones and the Atom will be the preference when I want a more transparent sound. This is of course not a full review of the L30 but just my own personal experience with both the L30 and Atom....YMMV.


Interesting comparison, a lot of new information that I did not know. I would have liked that in your tests, I also used an IEM to know which of the two handles the noise problem with sensitive IEMs, well in my case I have an IMR R2 Aten, and I don't know which one could be better for my headphones, since I wouldn't want to hear the buzz from the demanding power these two amps produce, but I guess with low gain there should be no problem, hopefully you'll broaden your experience if you have IEMs available to test


----------



## cel4145

Cat Music said:


> Interesting comparison, a lot of new information that I did not know. I would have liked that in your tests, I also used an IEM to know which of the two handles the noise problem with sensitive IEMs, well in my case I have an IMR R2 Aten, and I don't know which one could be better for my headphones, since I wouldn't want to hear the buzz from the demanding power these two amps produce, but I guess with low gain there should be no problem, hopefully you'll broaden your experience if you have IEMs available to test



I would get the L30 for sensitive, low impedance IEMs like that. The low gain sitting on the L30 is -9db, where as it is 0db on the Atom and the Schiit Magni series. Low output impedence is 0.5db, so you are good there, too.

So much better suited for your IEMs.


----------



## Francisk (Aug 24, 2020)

Cat Music said:


> Interesting comparison, a lot of new information that I did not know. I would have liked that in your tests, I also used an IEM to know which of the two handles the noise problem with sensitive IEMs, well in my case I have an IMR R2 Aten, and I don't know which one could be better for my headphones, since I wouldn't want to hear the buzz from the demanding power these two amps produce, but I guess with low gain there should be no problem, hopefully you'll broaden your experience if you have IEMs available to test


Both the L30 (-9dB gain) and Atom (low again) as cel4145 pointed out above have no noise issues with low impedance IEMs. For this test I used my Fitear TG334 at 16 ohm impedance and Dynamic Motion DM200H at 24 ohm impedance.


----------



## FYFL

starence said:


> My L30 has quite a loose headphone jack, there's very little resistance when plugging in or unplugging headphones. Do you guys have the same experience, or is my amp possibly defective?


Yes. Poor quality and execution. Volume knob also has its issues. And I am a little worry about long term use of those toggle switches.


----------



## Cat Music

FYFL said:


> Yes. Poor quality and execution. Volume knob also has its issues. And I am a little worry about long term use of those toggle switches.


but the knob can be replaceable or not?


----------



## FYFL

Cat Music said:


> but the knob can be replaceable or not?


I don’t think so. But it’s not the knob per se, it’s the pot itself. Topping is aware of this and says that it’s “normal”. When moving the knob slightly in both direction there’s a bit of a play. Meaning, no volume change. Not a deal breaker but it’s there. There are few other things that I’ve notice but I won’t get into it now.


----------



## cel4145

FYFL said:


> Yes. Poor quality and execution. Volume knob also has its issues. And I am a little worry about long term use of those toggle switches.



The volume knob on my L30 is fine.

I definitely noticed a slight bit of play in the toggle switches. Because they're so tiny, invariably one is likely to put a slight bit of left or right pressure on them when using them. How's that going to work out after 1,000 flips of that switch? Seems like the most likely point of failure on the amp.

I'm actually returning my L30. It doesn't really benefit me over the Atom that I have other than the tiny toggle switch option for switching between headphones and speakers. That, and as a formal visual designer, I'm not particularly excited about the entire design of the front interface.

So it doesn't seem worth keeping it between returning the L30 cost minus shipping vs. selling the Atom for a good bit less than I paid for it plus PayPal fees and shipping.  Either way I'm out shipping, and then I'm likely paying $65 to $70 more for the L30.


----------



## FYFL

cel4145 said:


> The volume knob on my L30 is fine.
> 
> I definitely noticed a slight bit of play in the toggle switches. Because they're so tiny, invariably one is likely to put a slight bit of left or right pressure on them when using them. How's that going to work out after 1,000 flips of that switch? Seems like the most likely point of failure on the amp.
> 
> ...


I don’t know if that volume pot play is plague affecting every single unit or not but bunch of ppl complained about it. As far as toggle switchers go......... I am also not a fan. I love toggle switches but, good ones run anywhere between $5-10 and I doubt L30 switches are even close to that kind of quality. I’m swapping between 5 headphones and that could be a potential failure point. I’ve asked designer about that as well and he assured me that they are fine. Also, when you take a closer look at those switches from the inside, you will see that they’re mounted with some sort of epoxy or glue. That’s worrisome. I guess we will see. Performance wise, it’s a nice, clean little amp that drives all my headphones with ease. So no real complaints there. Not as refined as my reference amp but it’s like comparing apples to oranges. Two completely different topologies.


----------



## cel4145

FYFL said:


> I’ve asked designer about that as well and he assured me that they are fine.



Well, the L30 designer over at ASR also said at first that he didn't see why consumers needed the 2V DAC input headphone output specs, but he has since changed his mind. So I would not have a lot of confidence in those switches unless they give us MTTF type specs.


----------



## FYFL (Aug 25, 2020)

cel4145 said:


> Well, the L30 designer over at ASR also said at first that he didn't see why consumers needed the 2V DAC input headphone output specs, but he has since changed his mind. So I would not have a lot of confidence in those switches unless they give us MTTF type specs.


Good point. And yes, I’ve read that little camp fire debate. I use toggle switches in all my portable BT “boom boxes” and love it. But I have to replace all those toggle switches that come with my preferred circuit board (optional with wiring package) with my own. Cheap ones, always fail. I can fix them but who has the time for that BS.


----------



## cel4145

FYFL said:


> Good point. And yes, I’ve read that little camp fire debate. I use toggle switches in all my portable BT “boom boxes” and love it. But I have to replace all those toggle switches that come with my preferred circuit board (optional with wiring package) with my own. Cheap ones, always fail. I can fix them but who has the time for that BS.



Admittedly, I was spoiled at one point by the Audio-GD NFB-11 toggle switches. They are awesome:


----------



## FYFL

cel4145 said:


> Admittedly, I was spoiled at one point by the Audio-GD NFB-11 toggle switches. They are awesome:



Nice. I like toggle switches on my Dragon as well. Heavy duty.
Here is the inside pic of L30 mounted switches. Tell me if you see an issue with that? Usually toggle switches are threaded with a nut screw to secure it with. Not here.


----------



## sajunky (Aug 25, 2020)

FYFL said:


> Also, when you take a closer look at those switches from the inside, you will see that they’re mounted with some sort of epoxy or glue. That’s worrisome. I guess we will see.


This epoxy glue is typically used to reduce mechanical vibration on solder joints. The main support comes from the metal bracket (as seen on the photo) also soldered to the PCB. To work reliable such switch has to operate with a little force. Switching currents are small, so reliability is determined by the make, not a switching force.

I have similar switches on Topping D30 (praised on Head-Fi), switches are not a reason it is left in a drawer.


----------



## FYFL

sajunky said:


> This epoxy glue is typically used to reduce mechanical vibration on solder joints. The main support comes from the metal bracket (as seen on the photo) also soldered to the PCB. To work reliable such switch has to operate with a little force. Switching currents are small, so reliability is determined by the make, not a switching force.
> 
> I have similar switches on Topping D30 (praised on Head-Fi), switches are not a reason it is left in a drawer.



I see it now. Still, I’m not convinced. If I was sporadically using those switches, I would be a little less paranoid. Without going in circles, I would just end it with that I’m not thrilled about it.
L30 is getting a lot of hype as well. Maybe it’s justified. I don’t know. I just bought it to have some point of reference as my preference gravitates towards tube base gear. Trying solid SS amp with my cans was also a consideration (give the praises it received).


----------



## cel4145

FYFL said:


> Nice. I like toggle switches on my Dragon as well. Heavy duty.
> Here is the inside pic of L30 mounted switches. Tell me if you see an issue with that? Usually toggle switches are threaded with a nut screw to secure it with. Not here.



That's interesting.

I'd be more worried about the internal mechanics of the switch itself. Say someone uses the power headphone pre out toggle five times in one day, five times in one week. That's 1,300 times in a year. But let's just make it a thousand times in a year.

I'm having difficulty imagining the toggle designer thinking, "This toggle tiny switch is going to get a lot of use. We got to make it last through thousands of flips."


----------



## sajunky

cel4145 said:


> I'm having difficulty imagining the toggle designer thinking, "This toggle tiny switch is going to get a lot of use. We got to make it last through thousands of flips."


Topping should disclose what make of the switch is used. This would allow users to build a confidence based on the datasheet and reputation of the manufacturer.


----------



## FYFL

To change the subject from toggle switch. How do you guys think it compares to other amps in that price range?


----------



## Francisk

FYFL said:


> To change the subject from toggle switch. How do you guys think it compares to other amps in that price range?


I received my L30 a few days ago and did an AB comparison volume matched by ear with my JDS Labs Atom set to low gain and L30 at 0dB gain setting. My comparison was done with the DX3 Pro (1st Gen) running in DAC mode and HifiMan Sundara headphone. After a few days of comparison, I've found that the Atom is slightly more powerful with a slightly wider soundstage. The L30 seems to add a little more decay on the upper lows or lower mids area which adds a little more body to that frequency range whereas the Atom has less decay and gives a tighter response in that region with nice low frequency extension.

As for the high frequencies, it's the direct opposite with the L30 producing shorter decay whereas the Atom produces a little more decay making it sound more airy in high frequency region. The Atom also reproduce instrument separation much more clearly though it's not night and day's difference, you can definitely tell the difference especially with the Sundara headphone. Fast percussive transients are reproduced equally well on both amps and mid frequency region is on par with both amps too.

My conclusion after few days of listening is that both the L30 and Atom are very good headphone amps at super affordable price so I'm keeping both. I'll most likely use the L30 with brighter headphones and the Atom will be my preference when I want a more transparent sound. This is of course not a full review of the L30 but just my own personal experience with both the L30 and Atom....YMMV.


----------



## FYFL (Aug 26, 2020)

Francisk said:


> I received my L30 a few days ago and did an AB comparison volume matched by ear with my JDS Labs Atom set to low gain and L30 at 0dB gain setting. My comparison was done with the DX3 Pro (1st Gen) running in DAC mode and HifiMan Sundara headphone. After a few days of comparison, I've found that the Atom is slightly more powerful with a slightly wider soundstage. The L30 seems to add a little more decay on the upper lows or lower mids area which adds a little more body to that frequency range whereas the Atom has less decay and gives a tighter response in that region with nice low frequency extension.
> 
> As for the high frequencies, it's the direct opposite with the L30 producing shorter decay whereas the Atom produces a little more decay making it sound more airy in high frequency region. The Atom also reproduce instrument separation much more clearly though it's not night and day's difference, you can definitely tell the difference especially with the Sundara headphone. Fast percussive transients are reproduced equally well on both amps and mid frequency region is on par with both amps too.
> 
> My conclusion after few days of listening is that both the L30 and Atom are very good headphone amps at super affordable price so I'm keeping both. I'll most likely use the L30 with brighter headphones and the Atom will be my preference when I want a more transparent sound. This is of course not a full review of the L30 but just my own personal experience with both the L30 and Atom....YMMV.


Thanks.  That was very helpful. The reason I asked is bc L30 is my first SS headphone amp that seems to match THX performance from technical point of view. At least on paper. So it was more of a curiosity purchase then anything else. From your description tho, Atom’s characteristics would probably suite my taste in presentation a little better. I am also curious how good class A amp (like Roger) compares to Topping/THX amps?
I’ll keep L30 for sure but I am still looking for what would be considered a SS reference amp. Preferably with XLRs and in $500 or less range.

As a side note I only compared L30 to my crappy smsl ad18 and my IHA-1 Dragon Inspire tube amp. Obviously it kills smsl but I would never replace my IHA-1 with L30. But it does some things better on some music, sometimes. Lol


----------



## Griz145389

Does anyone know how it would work with 600 ohm headphones?  I haven't seen any specs on this related to 600 ohms.


----------



## GunGrave

Measured performance is 117MW@300:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...topping-l30-headphone-amplifier-review.15226/
It should drop to something like 70mw@600 which should be enough.


----------



## Bboy500

Griz145389 said:


> Does anyone know how it would work with 600 ohm headphones?  I haven't seen any specs on this related to 600 ohms.



I use it on my T1.2 and it works fine on high gain


----------



## gatorengineer

Love My Geshelli Erish..... I believe its about the best you can get under $200.


----------



## 801evan

Is it possible to op-amp roll with the l30?


----------



## cel4145

801evan said:


> Is it possible to op-amp roll with the l30?



The L30 is so finely optimized to be as accurate as it is, changing the op amps could bork the sound. Doesn't seem like it would be possible to make it more accurate by experimenting with op amps.


----------



## GunGrave

Another review:


----------



## 801evan

cel4145 said:


> The L30 is so finely optimized to be as accurate as it is, changing the op amps could bork the sound. Doesn't seem like it would be possible to make it more accurate by experimenting with op amps.


I think so too. But I guess another way to ask is.... Are the op-amps soldered in or setup in a way to roll op-amps?


----------



## sajunky (Aug 30, 2020)

801evan said:


> I think so too. But I guess another way to ask is.... Are the op-amps soldered in or setup in a way to roll op-amps?


Please don't even attempt to do so. It is a nested loopback configuration, things that became a trend for getting good measurements since THX789 was born. Anything you do will make it worse, as you don't have a necessary equipment nor experience to do it properly. I agree with @cel4145.


----------



## 801evan

I reckon so as well. Thanks.


----------



## frogmeat69 (Aug 30, 2020)

GunGrave said:


> Another review:



Unlike what the review mentions, the L30 does not work with the P50 power supply, clearly says 15VAC, not DC. And the designer of the L30 does not recommend using anything but the PS that comes with it. Just a heads up in case anyone was wondering.


----------



## Dramlin

Tested the L30 against an S.M.S.L SP200 with a difficult to drive headphone (Hifiman Arya, 35ohm, 90db @ 1mW). The sound difference between the L30 & SP200 _to me _is:

SP200 pushes the main sound stage forward, as if you are observing it in front of you. The L30 stage is all around you, as if you are in the middle of the music.
SP200 has a wider and deeper sound stage, but somehow it doesn't seem correct. Almost as if sounds are being split _too far_ apart. You lose some ambience compared to the L30. The L30 stage seems correct as-is.
SP200 sounds slightly thinner/less full compared to the L30. Due to this the SP200 has a little less detail, and again less ambience
Both are excellent amps, but for my tastes the L30 sounds better. Well.. not only better but the L30 doesn't have any downsides at all that I can find. At "only" 1 watt to the Arya's, I can't find anything missing compared to the higher powered SP200.


----------



## MCCare (Sep 2, 2020)

Dramlin said:


> Tested the L30 against an S.M.S.L SP200 with a difficult to drive headphone (Hifiman Arya, 35ohm, 90db @ 1mW). The sound difference between the L30 & SP200 _to me _is:
> 
> SP200 pushes the main sound stage forward, as if you are observing it in front of you. The L30 stage is all around you, as if you are in the middle of the music.
> SP200 has a wider and deeper sound stage, but somehow it doesn't seem correct. Almost as if sounds are being split _too far_ apart. You lose some ambience compared to the L30. The L30 stage seems correct as-is.
> ...


I've used the SMSL SP200 & the E30 dac. Never had a single issue with the sound stage, nor did it sound thinner or like it had less detail even when compared to the A90. I'm starting to wonder if it's the headphones or the amp just isn't a good pair with planars.


----------



## Cat Music

Dramlin said:


> Tested the L30 against an S.M.S.L SP200 with a difficult to drive headphone (Hifiman Arya, 35ohm, 90db @ 1mW). The sound difference between the L30 & SP200 _to me _is:
> 
> SP200 pushes the main sound stage forward, as if you are observing it in front of you. The L30 stage is all around you, as if you are in the middle of the music.
> SP200 has a wider and deeper sound stage, but somehow it doesn't seem correct. Almost as if sounds are being split _too far_ apart. You lose some ambience compared to the L30. The L30 stage seems correct as-is.
> ...


and with which Dac were you pairing both amps?


----------



## Dramlin (Sep 2, 2020)

MCCare said:


> I've used the SMSL SP200 & the E30 dac. Never had a single issue with the sound stage, nor did it sound thinner or like it had less detail even when compared to the A90. I'm starting to wonder if it's the headphones or the amp just isn't a good pair with planars.



To clarify my generic wording on less detail and a bit thinner, it's a _very _subtle difference. The SP200 & L30 are very close to each other in terms of the sound they produce-- both great. The L30, to me, is able to pick up more nuances in the pluck of a guitar string, or someones breath hitting the top side of a flute. The sound is fully fleshed out, giving it a closer to natural sound. The SP200 still has those same sounds, but they are a little flatter with less fullness, blending more into the overall sound. Overall the L30 just sounds a little bit closer to reality, at least with my specific setup.

As for differences in our impressions, there's way too many variables at play. Could easily be that something in my chain is thinning out the sound upstream and that the L30 is warmer than the SP200. Could also be that my mind is tricking me in some way. I can typically trust my ears, but you never know.



Cat Music said:


> and with which Dac were you pairing both amps?



E30. Full chain is..

iBasso DX120 (Transport) via coax > E30 > L30/SP200 connected to the E30 by 'Worlds Best Cables Mogami 2497' > Hifiman Arya


----------



## escalibur

Couldn't resist the temptation of this amp and I've just ordered one with D10s DAC _(due to that I don't need E30's extra features)_. 

Impressions whenever I receive it considering these strange times.


----------



## Focux

Any L30 owners here w Utopia?


----------



## bogi (Sep 17, 2020)

deleted, wrong thread


----------



## baskingshark

Hi friends, anybody here tried a Khadas Tone Board DAC with the Topping L30? How's the synergy?


----------



## Mightygrey

baskingshark said:


> Hi friends, anybody here tried a Khadas Tone Board DAC with the Topping L30? How's the synergy?


No, but I'm sure it's perfectly transparent.


----------



## wolfstar76

According to DMS's review of L30, he had reservation on L30's capability to drive Hifiman Sundara fully. Anyone has first-hand experience?


----------



## cel4145

wolfstar76 said:


> According to DMS's review of L30, he had reservation on L30's capability to drive Hifiman Sundara fully. Anyone has first-hand experience?



It has as much output for low impedance headphones as the Atom does. Plenty of people use the Atom with Sundaras. I have no problem driving them with my Atom.

Unless you're going to add a lot of bass EQ boost, doesn't seem like it should be a problem.


----------



## wolfstar76

Thank you for the info!


----------



## Francisk

wolfstar76 said:


> According to DMS's review of L30, he had reservation on L30's capability to drive Hifiman Sundara fully. Anyone has first-hand experience?


My L30 can definitely drive my Sundara to ear splitting level at highest gain on the amp. If that's still not loud enough then I think DMG must be having a serious hearing problem.


----------



## Dramlin

The L30 drives my Arya's fully, which are harder to drive than the Sundaras. Wonderful little amp.


----------



## bogi

With planars it is mostly not only about max. volume level, but also about quality of bass reproduction. Try with recordings which really contain big bass, because it transfers the most of energy and needs also be reproduced without distortion. L30 is able to drive my HiFiMan HE-500 well, but it helped a bit when I shorted the green DC coupling caps near RCA input connectors.


----------



## jshaevitz (Oct 6, 2020)

I have the Topping E30/L30. Sometimes I hear a low rumble in the headphone output from the L30. It's not the E30 as I can unplug the input on the L30 and it is still there. If I switch off the L30 or change from HPA to PRE and back it goes away. Any ideas?

Edit - Seems to have gone away when I changed cables.


----------



## baskingshark (Oct 13, 2020)

Just bought the Topping L30.

Really very good amp for the money (running it from a Khadas Tone Board DAC). Transparent and quite neutralish, dark background with no hiss.
I really like the 3 gain switches, it can run stuff like high impedance cans to highly sensitive multi BA type IEMs.

Does get a bit warm with use, but not hot.


----------



## Magic77

baskingshark said:


> Just bought the Topping L30.
> 
> Really very good amp for the money (running it from a Khadas Tone Board DAC). Transparent and quite neutralish, dark background with no hiss.
> I really like the 3 gain switches, it can run stuff like high impedance cans to highly sensitive multi BA type IEMs.
> ...


This amp looks very interesting. Got an excellent review on audio science review. Where did you purchase yours, if you don’t mind me asking.


----------



## baskingshark

Magic77 said:


> This amp looks very interesting. Got an excellent review on audio science review. Where did you purchase yours, if you don’t mind me asking.



I bought mine from Hifigo. They shipped it pretty fast, got it in about a week (considering it was some week long China holiday last week).

One thing to note is that the power supply to the Topping L30 varies by your country, so if u are interested, you will need to inform them about which version of power supply is suited for your country.


----------



## Fabdube

I have been using the L30 since Sunday and it barely becomes hotter than room temperature ? About 21c here. Maybe they fixed the heat issue? 🤷🏼‍♂️


----------



## jmwant

How does it compare with the FiiO A5? I know these two are totally different things, but I'd love the luxury of Using the amp while im in bed.


----------



## baskingshark

Fabdube said:


> I have been using the L30 since Sunday and it barely becomes hotter than room temperature ? About 21c here. Maybe they fixed the heat issue? 🤷🏼‍♂️



What's the weather like in your country? I stay in a tropical region (where the baseline temperature is about 32 deg celcius). The L30 does get warmer than that, I estimate maybe near 40 deg with use, espeically when the higher gain switch is used, or with longer listening sessions. Still not as hot as any tube amp, I guess just leave it in an open area and don't stack anything on top of it.


----------



## Fabdube

baskingshark said:


> What's the weather like in your country? I stay in a tropical region (where the baseline temperature is about 32 deg celcius). The L30 does get warmer than that, I estimate maybe near 40 deg with use, espeically when the higher gain switch is used, or with longer listening sessions. Still not as hot as any tube amp, I guess just leave it in an open area and don't stack anything on top of it.



It's already -0 right now haha. In the summer it can get hot but rarely above 30c. We'll see?
The amazon seller I bought this from last friday had a 1 day $30 off sale this week so I ordered another one and returned my unit!


----------



## nicknack40 (Oct 17, 2020)

How would the L30 and E30 stack work with the Audeze LCD-2C Currently using Magni 3 with a Musical fidelity V90


----------



## Viper Necklampy

baskingshark said:


> What's the weather like in your country? I stay in a tropical region (where the baseline temperature is about 32 deg celcius). The L30 does get warmer than that, I estimate maybe near 40 deg with use, espeically when the higher gain switch is used, or with longer listening sessions. Still not as hot as any tube amp, I guess just leave it in an open area and don't stack anything on top of it.


40 degrees Celcius is kinda human skin temperature, to me is warmer than my hands, i would say at least 50, 55+. Is that normal?


----------



## Vruksha

Hey guys anyone using the L30 with Sundara? Does L30 have enough power to drive sundara to its full potential?  I am hoping they have more than enuff power. I don't want them to barely make it to power these, I've been told so hence asking here.


----------



## Francisk

Vruksha said:


> Hey guys anyone using the L30 with Sundara? Does L30 have enough power to drive sundara to its full potential?  I am hoping they have more than enuff power. I don't want them to barely make it to power these, I've been told so hence asking here.


The L30 can definitely drive the Sundara to ear damaging level on +9dB gain.


----------



## escalibur

Francisk said:


> The L30 can definitely drive the Sundara to ear damaging level on +9dB gain.


I don't think you would even need +9dB gain to drive them loud enough.


----------



## Vruksha

Thanks for the replys, I am planning to get the L30+E30 combo for Sundara, would this be a right choice?


----------



## Mightygrey

To answer the question by the original poster, yes I do think that the L30 is _the _new budget benchmark. 

My full impressions are posted here.


----------



## cel4145

Mightygrey said:


> To answer the question by the original poster, yes I do think that the L30 is _the _new budget benchmark.
> 
> My full impressions are posted here.



You wrote in your article, "The allows the L30 to combine an impressively high maximum power output of 3.5 Watts at 16 ohms with a dynamic range of 141dB, all the while keeping Total Harmonic Distortion and Noise (THD+N) to a paltry <0.00006%."

Except it does not come close to that power output with the E30, or most other DACs with the fairly standard 2V DAC output. It would help your readers to know that the headphone amp power output is more akin to the Atom with the DACs most people are buying to use with it. 

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...topping-l30-headphone-amplifier-review.15226/


----------



## Mightygrey

cel4145 said:


> You wrote in your article, "The allows the L30 to combine an impressively high maximum power output of 3.5 Watts at 16 ohms with a dynamic range of 141dB, all the while keeping Total Harmonic Distortion and Noise (THD+N) to a paltry <0.00006%."
> 
> Except it does not come close to that power output with the E30, or most other DACs with the fairly standard 2V DAC output. It would help your readers to know that the headphone amp power output is more akin to the Atom with the DACs most people are buying to use with it.
> 
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...topping-l30-headphone-amplifier-review.15226/


Interesting - I'm going from the manufacturer's quoted specs here, I don't have the ability to measure this myself. Has Topping acknowledged or replied to what this guy found during his measurements?


----------



## cel4145 (Oct 26, 2020)

Mightygrey said:


> Interesting - I'm going from the manufacturer's quoted specs here, I don't have the ability to measure this myself. Has Topping acknowledged or replied to what this guy found during his measurements?



Yes. It has been discussed on ASR. Topping knew about this. They knew exactly what they were doing. They had someone else measure it pre-release with a higher voltage input
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...asurement-of-topping-l30-headphone-amp.14252/

And there was a big discussion in one of those two threads about it. One of the L30 designers regularly participates in the two threads. It was suggested he should share 2V measurements with consumers, and he didn't want to do it. At first. Supposedly Topping may provide the 2V output numbers to vendors, but the vendors aren't necessarily going to put it up.

Edit: I should also add that if you know how to read all of those measurements they provide, it is possible to tease out that is not the 2V DAC performance. Although I can't do it. I've been told that by others.


----------



## escalibur

Vruksha said:


> Thanks for the replys, I am planning to get the L30+E30 combo for Sundara, would this be a right choice?


That would be pretty much end game solution. If you want to save a few extra bucks, consider D10s as a DAC if you don't need E30's extra features.


----------



## Vruksha

escalibur said:


> That would be pretty much end game solution. If you want to save a few extra bucks, consider D10s as a DAC if you don't need E30's extra features.


I'm not trying to get into a debate or offend anyone but I've been told by one set of users that D10s is bright and e30 is warm. On the other end I have users claiming DAC's are not supposed to colour the sound and they can't spot any sonic difference btw both. I am not on any side, I just want a decent amp that  has enuff power to drive power hungry cans to sensitive ba iem's + a decent dac that goes well with it. Only requirement for me is that they should work flawlessly and not die on me anytime soon.


----------



## escalibur

Vruksha said:


> I'm not trying to get into a debate or offend anyone but I've been told by one set of users that D10s is bright and e30 is warm. On the other end I have users claiming DAC's are not supposed to colour the sound and they can't spot any sonic difference btw both. I am not on any side, I just want a decent amp that  has enuff power to drive power hungry cans to sensitive ba iem's + a decent dac that goes well with it. Only requirement for me is that they should work flawlessly and not die on me anytime soon.


I also don't have strong opinions on that, that's why I went with D10s regardless of it's sound characteristics, assuming they actually exist.


----------



## cel4145

Vruksha said:


> I'm not trying to get into a debate or offend anyone but I've been told by one set of users that D10s is bright and e30 is warm.* On the other end I have users claiming DAC's are not supposed to colour the sound and they can't spot any sonic difference btw both.* I am not on any side, I just want a decent amp that  has enuff power to drive power hungry cans to sensitive ba iem's + a decent dac that goes well with it. Only requirement for me is that they should work flawlessly and not die on me anytime soon.



That's not accurate. And almost no one says that other than those that think all DACs have a sound signature in order to discredit the scientific point of view. 

Rather, the scientific explanation is that DACs that measure noise and distortion free outside the range of human hearing should sound the same. E30 and D10S arguably meet that criteria for use with headphones. But not every DAC measures that accurate.

That being said, a much less accurate DAC would be noise and distortion and free with speakers, as speakers have to compete with a room's noise floor.


----------



## bogi

I thought we are on head-fi and not on ASR. 
Sonic differences can be found between most of DACs. The differences in sound can be caused for example by intermodulation distortion - it's the way how noise from higher than fs/2 frequencies can affect sound in audible frequency range.
I didin't listen to D10s but I own E30. I wouldn't call it warm but its sonic signature is not bright and is on relaxed side. No peaky, harsh or aggressive  trebles. Quite typical sound of current AKM chips. It si quite expected that Sabre based D10s has brighter sonic signature than E30.


----------



## Vruksha

bogi said:


> I thought we are on head-fi and not on ASR.
> Sonic differences can be found between most of DACs. The differences in sound can be caused for example by intermodulation distortion - it's the way how noise from higher than fs/2 frequencies can affect sound in audible frequency range.
> I didin't listen to D10s but I own E30. I wouldn't call it warm but its sonic signature is not bright and is on relaxed side. No peaky, harsh or aggressive  trebles. Quite typical sound of current AKM chips. It si quite expected that Sabre based D10s has brighter sonic signature than E30.


I totally agree. I am very new to desktop setup but have owned few daps and USB DAC's with Saber/AKM. I always find saber to be brighter and more analytical while AKM tends to be more smooth and maybe since I'm more used to saber sound, I find AKM more warmer. 
From my experience, I just don't understand how it can be completely colourless when it comes to desktop dac/amps? Are these not the same DAC chip or what? I can differentiate the sound of saber and akm from my daps, maybe not CS and Akm but anyways when I go Tru forums,  it gets me confused looking external dacs. Am I missing something here? 
I just ordered a L30/E30 combo. Getting them for my Sundara(yet to receive) which is brighter (from the reviews) so should be a good pairing. Exited to get them on hand and I trust my ears more so I'll find this out very soon.


----------



## bogi

I think Sundara will pair perfectly with E30 + L30.

Standard set of measurements is  not able to explain all sonic differences we perceive. Standard measurements are usually done only in frequency domain and don't reflect gear reaction to dynamic changes like very deep bass attack. They are usually done only in audible range and don't consider level and intermodulation effect of noise from higher frequency areas.

No audio device is perfect and additional effects arise from chaining devices from digital source to headphones. So the best audio chain is that which adds the least of coloration to sound. L30 is near perfect in this regard. You will barely notice in the sound it is here expect that it does its amplification/attenuation work.


----------



## stavros.m

Hello i am very new to amp / dacs just curious would the  E30 + L30 pair good with the dt 990s 250 ohms. i really only use the headphones for casual gaming and i don't really care for pinpointing footsteps i most care about hearing the sounds and atmosphere in a single player game. I was also debating on the liquid spark stack since i hear the liguid spark stack does a better job for the dt 990's since it  rolls off the treble and adds warmth(bass and deep tones

thanks for any advice


----------



## Vruksha

stavros.m said:


> Hello i am very new to amp / dacs just curious would the  E30 + L30 pair good with the dt 990s 250 ohms. i really only use the headphones for casual gaming and i don't really care for pinpointing footsteps i most care about hearing the sounds and atmosphere in a single player game. I was also debating on the liquid spark stack since i hear the liguid spark stack does a better job for the dt 990's since it  rolls off the treble and adds warmth(bass and deep tones
> 
> thanks for any advice


I am by no means experienced in this scene but I was looking for the best budget dac/amp and L30+E30 is more than enough for everything, I use iem's as well and the L30 having the toggle switch makes it perfect for both high impedance hd as well as sensitive iem's. I just ordered mine couple days back. You can't go wrong with this


----------



## stavros.m

Vruksha said:


> I am by no means experienced in this scene but I was looking for the best budget dac/amp and L30+E30 is more than enough for everything, I use iem's as well and the L30 having the toggle switch makes it perfect for both high impedance hd as well as sensitive iem's. I just ordered mine couple days back. You can't go wrong with this



awesome thank for the comment i was worried that it would make the dt990's sound off since they are very neutral


----------



## wowyahoo

I have gen 1 schiit stack modi/magni, would the topping l30/e30 stack be a noticeable upgrade? I'm using elegia headphones.


----------



## ShangriLa (Oct 31, 2020)

A rave review of the Topping L30. Including comparison with the Drop THX 789 and Burson Soloist SL.

TLDR version:
- almost identical to Topping A90.
- richer/more refined/more 3D than THX789.
- at least equal to, may be better than, Burson Soloist SL.


----------



## Wyville

I recently received the L30/E30 stack for a review courtesy of @shenzhenaudio and while I have not yet been able to play around with it more seriously, I was able to do a nice test for my review of the Campfire Audio Ara. The Ara are very sensitive IEMs (8.5 Ohms, 94 dB SPL) and I went through a number of sources to test for hiss. Surprisingly, the L30/E30 stack had no noticeable hiss to my ears even on high gain (reducing the volume on my transport to avoid injury ).

The stack itself looks great and has a lot of versatility to it for the price. In terms of sound (only having used the Ara for now, so take it for what it is) the stack seems to have some warmth to it, quite smooth and very enjoyable with the Ara. Will start to do more serious testing in the coming days and will have some fun trying it out with my PS4 as well.


----------



## Vruksha (Nov 6, 2020)

Hey guys so I got my first amp/dac L30+E30. They are connected to my laptop and works fine super happy with them. I want to connect my DAP to the setup as the source now how do I do that? I am very new to this so any help would be great!
Thanks!


----------



## Wyville

Vruksha said:


> Hey guys so I got my first amp/dac L30+E30. They are connected to my laptop and works fine super happy with them. I want to connect my DAP to the setup as the source now how do I do that? I am very new to this so any help would be great!
> Thanks!


Depends on your DAP. Which one do you have? I have the Lotoo PAW6000 and I can connect that via USB, which worked fine. All I needed was an adapter because the Lotoo has USB-C.


----------



## Josz27 (Nov 6, 2020)

XERO1 said:


> Bifrost 2





XERO1 said:


> OK, I did a little A-B shootout between the L30 and the Schiit Heresy and long story short, in all but one catagory, I much prefered the sound of the L30 over the Heresy.
> 
> The only catagory that the Heresy came out on top for me was the size of it's soundstage.  The L30 had a more compact soundstage when directly compared to the Heresy.
> 
> ...


What headphones you used?
I find L30 somewhat bright or at least brighter compared to my HRT microstreamer and LG V30.
I have not tried atom but I'm interested in how warm is the liquid spark compared to the L30


----------



## Vruksha

Wyville said:


> Depends on your DAP. Which one do you have? I have the Lotoo PAW6000 and I can connect that via USB, which worked fine. All I needed was an adapter because the Lotoo has USB-C.


Thanks for the reply, I have a Plenue D2 as well as Hiby R3Pro Saber.


----------



## Wyville

Vruksha said:


> Thanks for the reply, I have a Plenue D2 as well as Hiby R3Pro Saber.


I think the Hiby has an output for coaxial that you could use and digital through its USB-C connection, so that should work as a transport.


----------



## Vruksha

Wyville said:


> I think the Hiby has an output for coaxial that you could use and digital through its USB-C connection, so that should work as a transport.


Thankyou for the help, I've connected via USB and works like a charm.


----------



## bifcake

Does anyone find the L30 running a bit warm?  I played it for a few hours and I touched it and it's pretty warm.  Not super hot, but toasty.  Is that within spec?


----------



## baskingshark

bifcake said:


> Does anyone find the L30 running a bit warm?  I played it for a few hours and I touched it and it's pretty warm.  Not super hot, but toasty.  Is that within spec?



Yes it does get warm for me, especially on high gain and longer listening sessions. Though it still isn't as hot as tube amps in general.

I now use the L30 in an air conditioned room or with a small desktop fan pointing at it, fixes the warm issue.


----------



## jwong

Well, I got an L30 and it sounded great for about 20 minutes... then promptly died on me. It produced nothing but a horrible buzzing sound, and then after unplugging for a good while and plugging back in it just sits there with the power light blinking. Joy.


----------



## bifcake

baskingshark said:


> Yes it does get warm for me, especially on high gain and longer listening sessions. Though it still isn't as hot as tube amps in general.
> 
> I now use the L30 in an air conditioned room or with a small desktop fan pointing at it, fixes the warm issue.


Thanks.  It's good to know this is normal behavior.


----------



## FYFL

Seems like some quality control issue. A lot of users report on this elevated temperature issue. Not really sure if those reports are a bit blown out of proportion or not but if you need a fan to cool a unit down than there’s some serious thermal issue. And Topping should address this problem. However, the only thing I’ve heard from Topping on this matter is, that this is a normal behavior. Take it for what it is. My unit is left ON overnight with no issues. Operating temperature appears to be what I would consider  “normal”. Warmish but within reason.


----------



## bifcake

FYFL said:


> Seems like some quality control issue. A lot of users report on this elevated temperature issue. Not really sure if those reports are a bit blown out of proportion or not but if you need a fan to cool a unit down than there’s some serious thermal issue. And Topping should address this problem. However, the only thing I’ve heard from Topping on this matter is, that this is a normal behavior. Take it for what it is. My unit is left ON overnight with no issues. Operating temperature appears to be what I would consider  “normal”. Warmish but within reason.



I can't say that it's hot, it's not so hot that I can't touch it or hold it in my hand for an extended period of time, but it's definitely warmer than I would expect a solid state amp to be. If that's normal behavior,  then I'm fine with it.


----------



## cel4145

FYFL said:


> Seems like some quality control issue. A lot of users report on this elevated temperature issue. Not really sure if those reports are a bit blown out of proportion or not but if you need a fan to cool a unit down than there’s some serious thermal issue. And Topping should address this problem. However, the only thing I’ve heard from Topping on this matter is, that this is a normal behavior. Take it for what it is. My unit is left ON overnight with no issues. Operating temperature appears to be what I would consider  “normal”. Warmish but within reason.



My understanding, based on what one of the designer said, is it's supposed to run warmer.

It's not like it gets Class A hot. So not sure what the concern is.


----------



## FYFL

cel4145 said:


> My understanding, based on what one of the designer said, is it's supposed to run warmer.
> 
> It's not like it gets Class A hot. So not sure what the concern is.


I am not sure either. Yes, it’s warm but nothing out of ordinary. Someone said that they use a fan to  cool it down so maybe there are cases of real concern. I often forget to turn my unit off and its temperature is exactly the same as it was after first 10min.


----------



## limaaa

Hi guys,

Is this amp good enough for HD6XX? If I pair it with E30 it can produce only 50% of power?

Thanks!


----------



## escalibur

limaaa said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Is this amp good enough for HD6XX? If I pair it with E30 it can produce only 50% of power?
> 
> Thanks!


It definitely is. You will have plenty of power to drive HD6XX.


----------



## limaaa

escalibur said:


> It definitely is. You will have plenty of power to drive HD6XX.


I don't understand why would E30 be a good DAC for L30 because with that DAC L30 can produce only 50% of it's power? I don't get it


----------



## bifcake

limaaa said:


> I don't understand why would E30 be a good DAC for L30 because with that DAC L30 can produce only 50% of it's power? I don't get it


You have to set the E30 as a DAC, not a PREamp.  That way, it will output 100% of power


----------



## limaaa

bifcake said:


> You have to set the E30 as a DAC, not a PREamp.  That way, it will output 100% of power


Thanks for the reply! I'm looking for amp for HD6XX. I have HRT Music Streamer II DAC. I don't know should I buy L30 with E30/D10 or some more powerfull amp to go with my HRT and latter on maybe some other DAC?


----------



## limaaa

limaaa said:


> Thanks for the reply! I'm looking for amp for HD6XX. I have HRT Music Streamer II DAC. I don't know should I buy L30 with E30/D10 or some more powerfull amp to go with my HRT and latter on maybe some other DAC? I'm worried will L30 drive HD6xx to full potential?


----------



## Vruksha (Nov 30, 2020)

limaaa said:


> Thanks for the reply! I'm looking for amp for HD6XX. I have HRT Music Streamer II DAC. I don't know should I buy L30 with E30/D10 or some more powerfull amp to go with my HRT and latter on maybe some other DAC?


L30+E30 is a really nice combo. You have more than enuff power to drive 6xx + other powerhungry headphones. It works really well with low impedance iem's as well.  If you want a cheaper dac D10 is good, I use the L30+E30 combo and really happy with it.


----------



## rick88

Is the L30 dead silent when turning the volume knob with no music playing? 

I received a Schiit Magni Heresy yesterday and returned it today because of the whooshing/scratchy sound from about 12 o'clock to the upper limit of the control. I was well aware of this known issue with the Heresy before ordering it, but rolled the dice in hopes I would get a quiet one so it would match/stack well with my Modi 3 DAC. A noisy volume control is unacceptable to me, even it is not noticeable with music playing.


----------



## Vruksha

rick88 said:


> Is the L30 dead silent when turning the volume knob with no music playing?
> 
> I received a Schiit Magni Heresy yesterday and returned it today because of the whooshing/scratchy sound from about 12 o'clock to the upper limit of the control. I was well aware of this known issue with the Heresy before ordering it, but rolled the dice in hopes I would get a quiet one so it would match/stack well with my Modi 3 DAC. A noisy volume control is unacceptable to me, even it is not noticeable with music playing.


I hear no sound from mine, it's silent and smooth to operate


----------



## Magic77

rick88 said:


> Is the L30 dead silent when turning the volume knob with no music playing?
> 
> I received a Schiit Magni Heresy yesterday and returned it today because of the whooshing/scratchy sound from about 12 o'clock to the upper limit of the control. I was well aware of this known issue with the Heresy before ordering it, but rolled the dice in hopes I would get a quiet one so it would match/stack well with my Modi 3 DAC. A noisy volume control is unacceptable to me, even it is not noticeable with music playing.


I have the Heresy also, and yes, it has that same noise as you mentioned. I have the Asgard 3 as well, and it has the same issue also. But, like you said; once the music plays, no noise or scratchy sound is heard. Don’t know what is causing that, but I understand your wanting everything to be dead silent. That’s the way it should be.


----------



## mocenigo

Well, it's a benchmark, full stop. Not just a budget benchmark. It is stunningly transparent, and unless you need a LOT of power or you buy in the balanced can hype, a definitive headamp.


----------



## mocenigo

sajunky said:


> I bought Topping D30 (featuring the best measurements on ASR) and it produce trash, not a sound.



Can you expand on your "to produce trash" with at least a shred of an argument?


----------



## rick88 (Dec 1, 2020)

Funny how things work out sometimes. I was initially torn between a Modi 3/Heresy or a E30/L30 combo, turns out I'll likely have a mixture of Schiit/Topping instead.

I bought a Modi 3 to try out first and liked it a lot right from the start. I then decided to try an E30 to compare. Both were tested with a Fiio A5 amp and Westone W20 IEMs and AKG K371s. To my ears the E30 was a bit brighter with my amp/headphones.

I also began experiencing odd behavior from the E30 after a couple of weeks. The auto-off feature started working only intermittently. I do not use USB or PC audio, I use the optical input for TV sound and the coaxial input for music/movies from a Sony UBP-X800 4K Ultra BD player. The auto-off worked fine from the start, but after a couple of weeks I'd get up in the morning and the display of the E30 would be flashing "ERR". I tried resetting it and/or unplugging for a bit several times, and it would be fine for a few days then the issue returned. Even though it had a remote and I could just turn it off that way (it was 8' away), I expect things to work as they are supposed to, so I returned it. Plus I slightly preferred the sound of the Modi 3.

Now, after the noisy volume control in the Heresy, I'll probably order an L30 to go with my Modi 3. Just goes to show that any manufacturer can have QC issues


----------



## rick88

Well, I just pulled the trigger on the L30 (in silver) through Amazon. I had enough $$ on my Amazon gift card balance to cover it, though I now wish I'd ordered it during the Black Friday weekend price of $118. Can't wait to try it out!


----------



## bifcake (Dec 2, 2020)

rick88 said:


> Well, I just pulled the trigger on the L30 (in silver) through Amazon. I had enough $$ on my Amazon gift card balance to cover it, though I now wish I'd ordered it during the Black Friday weekend price of $118. Can't wait to try it out!


I've found that you have to do a bit of configuration acrobatics for it to sound its best, but once you've done it, it's glorious.

EDIT: Ooops, sorry. I thought this was the E30 thread. The L30 is awesome! Just plug it in and go.


----------



## runssical (Dec 4, 2020)

Deleted


----------



## rick88 (Dec 4, 2020)

Deleted.


----------



## rick88

runssical said:


> Deleted



Oops. While I was replying to your message you deleted it.


----------



## runssical

rick88 said:


> Oops. While I was replying to your message you deleted it.



Yes, I had second thoughts. I prefer to avoid potential drama with the Shitt occultists but these continued issues with scratchy volume pots is ridiculous. I'm sour on that company because of their poor reputation for product design, DAC measurements (which only improved recently), build quality, and post-sale customer service.


----------



## cel4145

runssical said:


> Yes, I had second thoughts. I prefer to avoid potential drama with the Shitt occultists but these continued issues with scratchy volume pots is ridiculous. I'm sour on that company because of their poor reputation for product design, DAC measurements (which only improved recently), build quality, and post-sale customer service.



I always shake my head when the overly ardent Schiit fans declare the Atom amp to have poor build quality because of the polymer case, even though that does not affect the functionality for a desktop amp. While they neglect to mention purchasing a Magni series amp puts one in the scratchy volume pot lottery. Somehow, a lightweight metal case is way more important for functionality of a headphone amp than a decent potentiometer. lol


----------



## enomiss

Would a E30 + L30 be able to drive an Argon T60RP or MK3?
This guy  Argon MK3 - REVIEW - YouTube  says it needs like 6W? E30 can do 3,5W? Or am I reading numbers wrong?


----------



## runssical

enomiss said:


> Would a E30 + L30 be able to drive an Argon T60RP or MK3?
> This guy  Argon MK3 - REVIEW - YouTube  says it needs like 6W? E30 can do 3,5W? Or am I reading numbers wrong?



Keep in mind that most youtube reviewers are no-nothing shills. They pump out review after review in exchange for free product and ad revenue from YT.


----------



## enomiss

runssical said:


> Keep in mind that most youtube reviewers are no-nothing shills. They pump out review after review in exchange for free product and ad revenue from YT.


Your point being?


----------



## rick88 (Dec 12, 2020)

My L30 arrived today. I cut a piece of red pinstripe tape to put on the volume knob to make it easier to see the level. I'm temporarily using it in the living room watching TV and soon I'll watch a movie. Later on I'll listen to some music with it.


----------



## bogi

limaaa said:


> I don't understand why would E30 be a good DAC for L30 because with that DAC L30 can produce only 50% of it's power? I don't get it


With 2V RMS output of E30 in DAC mode the L30 provides enough power for my orthodynamic HE-500 on the middle gain. It is clearly stated here and on other forums that for example HD600/650 are also well driven. Yes, if DAC would provide higher voltage output, L30 would provide yet more power. But ... What for headphones do you own?

With my HE-500 it helped for bass reproduction to short the green input caps near the input RCAs. But that has nothing to do with L30 gain level.


----------



## bogi

rick88 said:


> Is the L30 dead silent when turning the volume knob with no music playing?


My experience si also that E30 is dead silent and I find such experience on other forums too. But as usual, you find also some people facing with ground loop issues or noise from graphic card.


----------



## rick88

bogi said:


> My experience si also that E30 is dead silent and I find such experience on other forums too. But as usual, you find also some people facing with ground loop issues or noise from graphic card.



Thanks. I've been using mine everyday for a week and indeed it is dead silent, and it sounds great!


----------



## Diable

cel4145 said:


> I always shake my head when the overly ardent Schiit fans declare the Atom amp to have poor build quality because of the polymer case, even though that does not affect the functionality for a desktop amp. While they neglect to mention purchasing a Magni series amp puts one in the scratchy volume pot lottery. Somehow, a lightweight metal case is way more important for functionality of a headphone amp than a decent potentiometer. lol



Fanboys get upset when something comes along and schiits all over their beloved product, franchise or politician. And in the case of the Atom it knocked Schiit into the schiiter. It exposed all of the flaws in the Magni amps that people had ignored because of its price and where it was made ("it's gonna have flaws cause it's cheap product made in the USA"). The fact that Schiit had to make their own version of the Atom was proof that it hit them where it hurts, in the pocket. The release of the L30 is bound to hurt them even more and I hope it's success pushes them to ditch the schiity design of the Magni 3 and release an amp that competes in bulid quality, sound quality and specs with the L30 and JDSLabs follow up to the Atom.


----------



## sajunky

Diable said:


> The fact that Schiit had to make their own version of the Atom was proof that it hit them where it hurts, in the pocket. The release of the L30 is bound to hurt them even more and I hope it's success pushes them to ditch the schiity design of the Magni 3 and release an amp that competes in bulid quality, sound quality and specs with the L30 and JDSLabs follow up to the Atom.


Schiit do not make their own version of Atom and I hope they will not follow the trend of building nested feedback amps similar to JDSLabs/Topping. Having said this, my entry level would be Asgard pairing with multibit DAC upgrade or Bitfrost 2.


----------



## Diable (Dec 20, 2020)

By their version of a Atom I meant a amp that was designed to measure as well as the Atom. I'm sure Schiit has the engineering chops to design a amp that's not only low in distortion but sounds great. If not they'll continue to loose mind and market share to JDSLabs, Topping and others.


----------



## sajunky (Dec 19, 2020)

Diable said:


> By there version of a Atom I meant a amp that was designed to measure as well as the Atom. I'm sure Schiit has the engineering chops to design a amp that's not only low in distortion but sounds great. If not they'll continue to loose mind and market share to JDSLabs, Topping and others.


You didn't mean I would purchase Shiit Asgard if it wouldn't sound well (not better than Atom, L30), did you?


----------



## Diable

Noy at all.


----------



## limaaa

bogi said:


> With 2V RMS output of E30 in DAC mode the L30 provides enough power for my orthodynamic HE-500 on the middle gain. It is clearly stated here and on other forums that for example HD600/650 are also well driven. Yes, if DAC would provide higher voltage output, L30 would provide yet more power. But ... What for headphones do you own?
> 
> With my HE-500 it helped for bass reproduction to short the green input caps near the input RCAs. But that has nothing to do with L30 gain level.


I only have NAD Viso HP50, and HD6XX ordered. I'm looking for an amp for HD6xx


----------



## cel4145

limaaa said:


> I only have NAD Viso HP50, and HD6XX ordered. I'm looking for an amp for HD6xx


 
The L30/E30 works great with those headphones.


----------



## limaaa

cel4145 said:


> The L30/E30 works great with those headphones.


I was little worried if L30 will have enough power for HD6xx. 

The second option was A50s but then I need to buy balanced cable


----------



## cel4145

limaaa said:


> I was little worried if L30 will have enough power for HD6xx.
> 
> The second option was A50s but then I need to buy balanced cable



You likely won't even have to use high gain on the L30 with the HD6XX.


----------



## bifcake

The L30 is a REALLY good amp.  Very clean, no noise, no distortion, lots of power.  What's not to like?


----------



## sajunky

bifcake said:


> The L30 is a REALLY good amp.  Very clean, no noise, no distortion, lots of power.  What's not to like?


No *harmonic* distortions. Measured a steady sine wave. Music is not static.


----------



## bifcake

sajunky said:


> No *harmonic* distortions. Measured a steady sine wave. Music is not static.


So, are you saying that it exhibits a different type of distortion?


----------



## sajunky

bifcake said:


> So, are you saying that it exhibits a different type of distortion?


Full of dominant tones, sterile dark background, very little of music. It not only applies to L30, but all current Topping, JDSLabs, SMSL, FiiO production with nested loopback amp design. THX 789 leads them all.


----------



## FYFL

Wonder if anyone could tell a difference between 0.0005%THD and 1% distortion? There are countless examples of amps that I have heard that exceed 1% THD yet still sound fantastic. Some people listen to numbers, others just enjoy music I guess.


----------



## bifcake

sajunky said:


> Full of dominant tones, sterile dark background, very little of music. It not only applies to L30, but all current Topping, JDSLabs, SMSL, FiiO production with nested loopback amp design. THX 789 leads them all.



What do you mean by "sterile dark background?"  Either the background is dark or it isn't.  Either there's noise when no music playing or there isn't.  I don't quite understand how background with no noise can be sterile... or not sterile for that matter.


----------



## sajunky

bifcake said:


> What do you mean by "sterile dark background?"  Either the background is dark or it isn't.  Either there's noise when no music playing or there isn't.  I don't quite understand how background with no noise can be sterile... or not sterile for that matter.


When music stops there is a silence, it is measured, but it doesn't matter for a listener.


----------



## bifcake

sajunky said:


> When music stops there is a silence, it is measured, but it doesn't matter for a listener.


It matters in that when there is silence, there is actual silence without background noise because the background noise affects your listening experience.


----------



## sajunky

bifcake said:


> It matters in that when there is silence, there is actual silence without background noise because the background noise affects your listening experience.


I don't talk about noise, there are some who measure noise very well. I talk about music, so it is obvious I don't talk about moments where music stops. I think it is clear.


----------



## cel4145

bifcake said:


> What do you mean by "sterile dark background?"  Either the background is dark or it isn't.  Either there's noise when no music playing or there isn't.  I don't quite understand how background with no noise can be sterile... or not sterile for that matter.



I don't see it as contradictory.I would say that sterile is redundant, since it implies totally clean, no noise.


----------



## sajunky

cel4145 said:


> I don't see it as contradictory.I would say that sterile is redundant, since it implies totally clean, no noise.


Sterile means clean, no noise when applied to the distortions. "Sterile dark" when applies to the music means that something is missing in the low level presentation.


----------



## bifcake

sajunky said:


> Sterile means clean, no noise when applied to the distortions. "Sterile dark" when applies to the music means that something is missing in the low level presentation.


You used "sterile" as a description of silence. I think this is where all the confusion stems from. Either silence is silent or it's not and contains noise. I'm not clear if you prefer silent passages in music not to be silent, but to contain noise or if you prefer to hear noise while playing music or both.  I don't understand "sterile" as it pertains to silence.


----------



## cel4145

sajunky said:


> Sterile means clean, no noise when applied to the distortions. "Sterile dark" when applies to the music means that something is missing in the low level presentation.



Not to me it doesn't. lol

That is the problem with these adjectives used to describe sound. They are fuzzy.


----------



## Light - Man

Sterile describes the L30 for me. It just sounds dull and uninvolving to me, not to mention its lack of musicality.

It just goes to show you that measurements mean little to how things sound when playing real music.

The experience has left me cold, clinical as well as cynical................ 

BTW, glad so see that some people like it and that is all that counts!


----------



## bifcake

Light - Man said:


> Sterile describes the L30 for me. It just sounds dull and uninvolving to me, not to mention its lack of musicality.
> 
> It just goes to show you that measurements mean little to how things sound when playing real music.
> 
> ...


It doesn't sound that way to me at all. I find it quick, powerful, resolving, doesn't smudge neither bass nor highs and it doesn't impose its own sound signature on the music. Isn't that what an amplifier should do?


----------



## cel4145

Light - Man said:


> Sterile describes the L30 for me. It just sounds dull and uninvolving to me, not to mention its lack of musicality.
> 
> It just goes to show you that measurements mean little to how things sound when playing real music.
> 
> ...



The L30 is very accurate. It is easily arguable that it is noise and distortion-free within the range of human hearing. The highest-fidelity someone can perceive. 

So maybe you might want to look for a tube amp for its pleasing audible distortion, instead of highest fidelity sound reproduction.


----------



## Light - Man

bifcake said:


> It doesn't sound that way to me at all. I find it quick, powerful, resolving, doesn't smudge neither bass nor highs and it doesn't impose its own sound signature on the music. Isn't that what an amplifier should do?


Glad you like it.

Compare it to a Little Bear B4 and draw your own conclusions.

BTW, I much prefer the B4 to the B4-X, so newer is not necessarily better.


----------



## FYFL

There are plenty of ways to introduce noise into a system. Regardless what your component’s measurements are, those are not spects that I would be most concern about. Also, as much as adding ton of negative feedback as well as excessive filtering on PS input/output stage (or other techniques) to lower noise-floor might seem the right approach, benefits of it might vary. It’s all about compromises. There’s no free lunch. And if you think $140 amp that appears to measure “well” is the all-be-all, than I won’t stop your numbers joy ride. All I’m saying is that there’s more to it then that. If it wasn’t, all of us would purchase the same crap, based on spects sheet. I would rather listen and hear it for myself. In my system, with my components and take it from there.


----------



## bifcake

Light - Man said:


> Glad you like it.
> 
> Compare it to a Little Bear B4 and draw your own conclusions.
> 
> BTW, I much prefer the B4 to the B4-X, so newer is not necessarily better.





FYFL said:


> There are plenty of ways to introduce noise into a system. Regardless what your component’s measurements are, those are not spects that I would be most concern about. Also, as much as adding ton of negative feedback as well as excessive filtering on PS input/output stage (or other techniques) to lower noise-floor might seem the right approach, benefits of it might vary. It’s all about compromises. There’s no free lunch. And if you think $140 amp that appears to measure “well” is the all-be-all, than I won’t stop your numbers joy ride. All I’m saying is that there’s more to it then that. If it wasn’t, all of us would purchase the same crap, based on spects sheet. I would rather listen and hear it for myself. In my system, with my components and take it from there.


Measurements not withstanding, I find it subjectively, sonically to be a really nice amp. I haven't encountered any flaws in it. At least, not yet.


----------



## enomiss

Guys, what would on average be the best sample rate in Windows 10 for using with the E30? Can you share your settings?
I noticed that some programs don't work with anything above 192kHz at 16/24/32bit.
I know for ASIO playback it doesn't matter because it overwrites it.


----------



## bifcake

enomiss said:


> Guys, what would on average be the best sample rate in Windows 10 for using with the E30? Can you share your settings?
> I noticed that some programs don't work with anything above 192kHz at 16/24/32bit.
> I know for ASIO playback it doesn't matter because it overwrites it.


I find that using pcm to dsd upsampling up to the max sounds the best. However, I can only do that with  Jriver. I hear crackling noises if I use that setting with foobar, so I have to bring it down to 5.6 dsd upsampling. For non Asio players, I find that 24/96 sounds best.


----------



## Makiah S

I found L30 to be mostly sterile it's got a touch of softness which can be pleasent, compared to a no cost no object design like the Bricasti M3H it lacks a level of definition for transient response and overall detail. But comparing a $140 amp to a $7,000 all in one is a bit un fair. 

My point it offers a nice clean presentation which works well with headphones that are very musical and involved I feel, I my self enjoyed my HE 4XX and my HD 600. 

That said tho if you didn't know Apos Audio is hosting a giveaway for L30!!  

https://apos.audio/blogs/news/enter-our-giveaway-to-win-a-topping-l30-amp


----------



## enomiss

bifcake said:


> I find that using pcm to dsd upsampling up to the max sounds the best. However, I can only do that with  Jriver. I hear crackling noises if I use that setting with foobar, so I have to bring it down to 5.6 dsd upsampling. For non Asio players, I find that 24/96 sounds best.



I mean general in Windows for things you have no control over like YouTube, games, etc...


----------



## cel4145

FYFL said:


> There are plenty of ways to introduce noise into a system. Regardless what your component’s measurements are, those are not spects that I would be most concern about. Also, as much as adding ton of negative feedback as well as excessive filtering on PS input/output stage (or other techniques) to lower noise-floor might seem the right approach, benefits of it might vary. It’s all about compromises. There’s no free lunch. And if you think $140 amp that appears to measure “well” is the all-be-all, than I won’t stop your numbers joy ride. All I’m saying is that there’s more to it then that.* If it wasn’t, all of us would purchase the same crap, based on spects sheet. *I would rather listen and hear it for myself. In my system, with my components and take it from there.



Actually, a lot of us don't buy based on spec sheets, but do buy based on independent measurements. Just sayin'.


----------



## bifcake

enomiss said:


> I mean general in Windows for things you have no control over like YouTube, games, etc...


Open the Windows control panel, under Sound, select Mange audio devices.  Select Topping USB Dac and click on Properties.  Go to the Advanced tab and select 24bit, 96000hz and click Apply.

That will be the setting for Youtube, windows, etc. I find that the 24/96 sounds best in non-Asio apps.


----------



## bifcake

Mshenay said:


> I found L30 to be mostly sterile it's got a touch of softness which can be pleasent, compared to a no cost no object design like the Bricasti M3H it lacks a level of definition for transient response and overall detail. But comparing a $140 amp to a $7,000 all in one is a bit un fair.
> 
> My point it offers a nice clean presentation which works well with headphones that are very musical and involved I feel, I my self enjoyed my HE 4XX and my HD 600.
> 
> ...


The fact that you would even bother to compare it to a $7,000 amp speaks volumes about the sound quality of the L30


----------



## sajunky

bifcake said:


> Open the Windows control panel, under Sound, select Mange audio devices.  Select Topping USB Dac and click on Properties.  Go to the Advanced tab and select 24bit, 96000hz and click Apply.
> 
> That will be the setting for Youtube, windows, etc. I find that the 24/96 sounds best in non-Asio apps.


So you put windows mixer in the audio chain? Not a good advice. You should perhaps try asio4all.


----------



## bifcake

sajunky said:


> So you put windows mixer in the audio chain? Not a good advice. You should perhaps try asio4all.


My understanding is that the OP wanted to know how to set the bit rate on the E30 without installing ASIO.


----------



## sajunky

bifcake said:


> My understanding is that the OP wanted to know how to set the bit rate on the E30 without installing ASIO.


You should always offer the best advice, no matter what user is asking for. A person may be not aware that better option do exist.


----------



## bifcake

sajunky said:


> You should always offer the best advice, no matter what user is asking for. A person may be not aware that better option do exist.


Is that what I should do? Or should I just answer the question that has been asked?


----------



## sajunky

bifcake said:


> Is that what I should do? Or should I just answer the question that has been asked?


OP was asking for something different and your suggestion was heading OP in the wrong direction on one side and did not answer main question on the other. In other words trolling, I believe (to your defense) unintentional. Now please stop bickering.


----------



## bifcake

sajunky said:


> OP was asking for something different and your suggestion was heading OP in the wrong direction on one side and did not answer main question on the other. In other words trolling, I believe (to your defense) unintentional. Now please stop bickering.



_"Guys, what would on average be the best sample rate in Windows 10 for using with the E30? Can you share your settings?
I noticed that some programs don't work with anything above 192kHz at 16/24/32bit.
I know for ASIO playback it doesn't matter because it overwrites it." _

Learn to read.  He already knows about ASIO, so he doesn't need me or you to tell him about it.  He's asking specifically about settings outside of ASIO.


----------



## sajunky (Dec 22, 2020)

bifcake said:


> _"Guys, what would on average be the best sample rate in Windows 10 for using with the E30? Can you share your settings?
> I noticed that some programs don't work with anything above 192kHz at 16/24/32bit.
> I know for ASIO playback it doesn't matter because it overwrites it." _
> 
> Learn to read.  He already knows about ASIO, so he doesn't need me or you to tell him about it.  He's asking specifically about settings outside of ASIO.


Nope.
He knows about alternative Windows interface some application can use (ASIO excluded), he is asking about it.
Did you ever hear about?
He knows about Direct Sound (system mixer) 192kHz limitation, you didn't.


----------



## bifcake

sajunky said:


> Nope.
> He knows about alternative Windows interface some application can use (ASIO excluded), he is asking about it.
> Did you ever hear about?
> He knows about Direct Sound (system mixer) 192kHz limitation, you didn't.


You know, you're presumptuous little c... man.  For some reason, you think it's ok for you to tell people how they should or should not respond to posts, you think it's ok stick your self righteous p... nose into a conversation that has nothing to do with you and then you don't know when to let it go.  I have been a member of Head-Fi for almost 20 years and I have NEVER put ANYONE on my ignore list.  Congratulations!  You've broken that cherry.  Bam!  Zoom!


----------



## sajunky

bifcake said:


> You know, you're presumptuous little c... man.  For some reason, you think it's ok for you to tell people how they should or should not respond to posts, you think it's ok stick your self righteous p... nose into a conversation that has nothing to do with you and then you don't know when to let it go.  I have been a member of Head-Fi for almost 20 years and I have NEVER put ANYONE on my ignore list.  Congratulations!  You've broken that cherry.  Bam!  Zoom!



Good move. It helps clever people to separate from dumb people (somehow).


----------



## Makiah S

bifcake said:


> The fact that you would even bother to compare it to a $7,000 amp speaks volumes about the sound quality of the L30



Don't put words in my mouth, I compare everything to it as I find it's an absolute reference outside of me playing my own instruments

But L30 is enough, I found it a bit better than atom and more consistent than SP200, but it's no where near realistic enough to be 100% transparent and lifelike like the Bricasti, tho for a lot of people it'll be wonderful especially in the price point it's at


----------



## bifcake

Mshenay said:


> Don't put words in my mouth, I compare everything to it as I find it's an absolute reference outside of me playing my own instruments
> 
> But L30 is enough, I found it a bit better than atom and more consistent than SP200, but it's no where near realistic enough to be 100% transparent and lifelike like the Bricasti, tho for a lot of people it'll be wonderful especially in the price point it's at



I agree.  I think it's a wonderful amp and it's probably the end game in terms of amplifiers for many, many people.


----------



## Light - Man

I would say to people who may be curious about the L30, not to bother trying it if they already have anything decent.

Just wait for the next hype train to arrive, as there is usually another train waiting around the corner.

Amusing stuff guys, but don't get too heavy because all our posts could get deleted by the Mods.


----------



## bifcake

Light - Man said:


> I would say to people who may be curious about the L30, not to bother trying it if they already have anything decent.
> 
> Just wait for the next hype train to arrive, as there is usually another train waiting around the corner.
> 
> Amusing stuff guys, but don't get too heavy because all our posts could get deleted by the Mods.


I bought it and I'm quite happy with it.  Hype or no hype.  I'm not the type of a  person who changes their equipment every 5 minutes.  Once I'm satisfied with something, I keep it.  I still have my HD580 headphones, that I've had for over 20 years.  I changed my DAC/Amp just recently after using it for about 15 years.  So, I do a lot of research and I try out stuff whenever I can and if there's something that does the job the way I want it to, then I buy it and I keep it.  The L30 is a definite keeper.


----------



## enomiss (Dec 22, 2020)

Hi bifcake and sajunky, I thank you both for your insights!

In my opinion bifcake did nothing wrong by answering what I was asking for. If I would have gotten only your answer about asio4all I wouldn't have been satisfied. I was specifically interested in the best compromise solution within Windows 10.

Your insights could be described as supplementary information, that doesn't make it less valuable though. I really appreciate it. Also I understand your point that you can attempt to estimate the lack of knowledge and offer the best advice possible, but disregarding the original question completely is never recommend I think.

However you cannot force other members to think and act the same as you do. You have that quality described above to add supplementary information, but not everyone has it or sees the added value of it.

@bifcake, do you choose '2 channels, 24 bits', or '2 channels, 32 bits' within the topping driver? I feel like '24 bit, 96000 hz' within Windows 10 doesn't match nice with that Topping setting. So I was thinking about setting '32 bit, 96000 hz' in Windows and  '2 channels, 32 bits' in the Topping driver... so at leats the 32 bit matches... or doesn't this make sense?

@sajunky, I do wonder now, how should you use asio4all together with the ASIO capability already within the Topping driver? Sometimes I want to have music in the background while playing a game for example. To my understanding asio4all would not allow the ingame audio to come through... therefore I was thinking about using the best Windows setting for usage where audio quality is less important (YouTube, games, random appilcations), and use Foobar with the Topping ASIO driver to listen to music when I feel dedicated to enjoy the best audio possible. If asio4all can help me with this usecase I'm all ears.

Btw, I hope you two forgive each other!


----------



## bifcake

enomiss said:


> Hi bifcake and sajunky, I thank you both for your insights!
> 
> In my opinion bifcake did nothing wrong by answering what I was asking for. If I would have gotten only your answer about asio4all I wouldn't have been satisfied. I was specifically interested in the best compromise solution within Windows 10.
> 
> ...


I have tried 32 bit 96k setting and I thought the 24 bit was the same, perhaps just a smudge better.  Another thing is that I haven't been able to get ASIO4All to recognize Topping.  I'll play with it to see if I can get it resolved, but ASIO4All has always been a royal pain with regard to getting it to work in the first place and stability thereafter.


----------



## enomiss

bifcake said:


> I have tried 32 bit 96k setting and I thought the 24 bit was the same, perhaps just a smudge better.  Another thing is that I haven't been able to get ASIO4All to recognize Topping.  I'll play with it to see if I can get it resolved, but ASIO4All has always been a royal pain with regard to getting it to work in the first place and stability thereafter.



So you have  '2 channels, 24 bits' as output within the topping driver?


----------



## sajunky

enomiss said:


> @sajunky, I do wonder now, how should you use asio4all together with the ASIO capability already within the Topping driver? Sometimes I want to have music in the background while playing a game for example. To my understanding asio4all would not allow the ingame audio to come through... therefore I was thinking about using the best Windows setting for usage where audio quality is less important (YouTube, games, random appilcations), and use Foobar with the Topping ASIO driver to listen to music when I feel dedicated to enjoy the best audio possible. If asio4all can help me with this usecase I'm all ears.
> 
> Btw, I hope you two forgive each other!


It is obvious that silly bickering must stop before getting any serious discussion. Once the respondent stops trying to correct my posts  (which appear it will happen) we can continue.

I did write about asio4all in response to your comment that not all application recognise ASIO driver. It installs virtual device driver that emulate any driver name you like and redirect output to the ASIO driver.

You also wanted to go above 192kHz, so now I think it is clear that Direct Sound driver stack (Windows mixer) hit the wall. If you are happy with ASIO, then fine, but there is an alternative. To be honest, I haven't try it yet, having only few tracks 192kHz in my library and nothing above, but you can try. It is called WASAPI. Application must be designed to use this interface. Foobar does. At the moment more and more application use WASAPI, it can be a way to break 192kHz barrier, but as I said on the beginning, I didn't try.

There are two modes of WASAPI: exclusive and shared. The latest version of Foobar use WASAPI shared by default. It is a hook to the Direct Sound, so I think it will hit the same barrier. The only chance to jump above 192kHz is by using WASAPI exclusive mode. It is also the best option for a maximum sound quality (bit-perfect transfers), similar to ASIO, it is now a recommended output. It has to be enabled in the Windows Control Panel for your sound device to enable application to grab exclusive control over device. On the application side too. I think Foobar still needs to load WASAPI exclusive mode extension, check it out.

I didn't go carefully through your latest update, but it is clear that if you want to hear some music while playing games, WASAPI shared is the way to go. When you want listen with a maximum sound quality, enable WASAPI exclusive mode playback in the application. Windows settings for enabling application to take exclusive access (along with maximum priority) should be always enabled.


----------



## bifcake

enomiss said:


> So you have  '2 channels, 24 bits' as output within the topping driver?


Yes, you have to go through the control panel settings I outlined in my initial post.


----------



## enomiss (Dec 22, 2020)

bifcake said:


> Yes, you have to go through the control panel settings I outlined in my initial post.



No I mean under the Topping settings.

@sajunky, I'll reply tomorrow.


----------



## bifcake

Under the topping setting, you can only change it with the topping asio driver for a particular player.


----------



## enomiss

bifcake said:


> Under the topping setting, you can only change it with the topping asio driver for a particular player.



Do you mean all those Topping settings under the system tray are only active for Football or JRiver output? All other sound is using windows settings?


----------



## bifcake

enomiss said:


> Do you mean all those Topping settings under the system tray are only active for Football or JRiver output? All other sound is using windows settings?


The Topping settings under the system tray don't allow me to change the upsampling rate. When I use Foobar or Jriver, I use the asio driver for those apps.


----------



## enomiss (Dec 23, 2020)

bifcake said:


> The Topping settings under the system tray don't allow me to change the upsampling rate. When I use Foobar or Jriver, I use the asio driver for those apps.



True, sample rate comes from Windows, see below screenshot where ASIO is active with Foobar. Just not sure if I should have safe mode turned on?





But looks like you can chance between 24 bits and 32 bits for the output, see below. So I'm keeping that the same as in Windows.




My windows settings:




Are below Foobar settings okay?


----------



## bifcake

enomiss said:


> True, sample rate comes from Windows, see below screenshot where ASIO is active with Foobar. Just not sure if I should have safe mode turned on?
> 
> 
> But looks like you can chance between 24 bits and 32 bits for the output, see below. So I'm keeping that the same as in Windows.
> ...


My topping control panel looks different, but the Foobar looks the same.

For Foobar playback, I prefer to set PCM to DSD Method: SDM Type C
FS: DSD 512. If that doesn't work well, set the FS: to 128


----------



## rick88 (Dec 23, 2020)

There is a lot of discussion in the last few pages of this thread on the E30 DAC. I come to this thread to read comments on the L30 amp and it is a bit mucked up with off topic posts. Why not discuss the E30 in the thread for it in the dedicated source components section? Not trying to be a jerk, I promise...  

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/topping-e30-dac-preamp.940093/


----------



## bifcake

rick88 said:


> There is a lot of discussion in the last few pages of this thread on the E30 DAC. I come to this thread to read comments on the L30 amp and it is a bit mucked up with off topic posts. Why not discuss the E30 in the thread for it in the dedicated source components section? Not trying to be a jerk, I promise...
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/topping-e30-dac-preamp.940093/


I think people post here accidentally about the E30, thinking that this is an E30 forum and then the discussion takes a life of its own..

BTW, the L30 is great! I love it! That's all you need to know!


----------



## MMeirolas (Dec 23, 2020)

Hello everyone

I'm on the verge of pulling the trigger on the e30/l30 stack, which i will use to drive the sennheiser hd6xx (are on it's way).

Now i am not a very savvy person, so i have a few questions regarding connection and operation, which maybe someone can answer 

Connecting the 2 is with rca cables. Are there any specific cables i should buy, or any will do?

I want to use it with a Linux PC/Server which is always turned on. Playing on mopidy mostly flacs/dsd and spotify premium and tidal: how long is the included usb cable that connects to the PC?

Are there any known issues with noise/hissing when connected to PC?

To connect the Smartphone i need a cable like this right?  https://www.amazon.com/-/de/dp/B08J...rds=usb+c+usb+b+b+cable&qid=1608767456&sr=8-6

Sorry about all the questions and thanks a lot


----------



## enomiss (Dec 23, 2020)

MMeirolas said:


> Connecting the 2 is with rca cables. Are there any specific cables i should buy, or any will do?


If you stack them I would buy RCA cables max 20 cm long. I got Straight wire cables, very nice. Schiit sells them too: Schiit Audio: Audio Products Designed and Built in California I also know a shop in the Netherlands that sells them:  Straightwire rca set - Hifi Studio 79



MMeirolas said:


> I want to use it with a Linux PC/Server which is always turned on. Playing on mopidy mostly flacs/dsd and spotify premium and tidal: how long is the included usb cable that connects to the PC?


Cable from E30 to PC is about 1 meter I would guess.



MMeirolas said:


> Are there any known issues with noise/hissing when connected to PC?


Zero noise here. Absolute darkness.



MMeirolas said:


> To connect the Smartphone i need a cable like this right?  https://www.amazon.com/-/de/dp/B08J...rds=usb+c+usb+b+b+cable&qid=1608767456&sr=8-6


DAC has USB Type-B input and your phone probably USB Type-C. If you're in doubt: Identifying your USB connector | CMD (cmd-ltd.com)


----------



## MMeirolas (Dec 23, 2020)

enomiss said:


> If you stack them I would buy RCA cables max 20 cm long. I got Straight wire cables, very nice. Schiit sells them too: Schiit Audio: Audio Products Designed and Built in California I also know a shop in the Netherlands that sells them:  Straightwire rca set - Hifi Studio 79
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thx, i will look into it those cables. Some people are complaining that the devices get a bit hot, so probably buying longer cables.

1m is enough i think and good to know that there are no noise issues 

Yes it's a usb-c smartphone

if i want to connect speakers as well i need to buy powered rca connected speakers, or are there rca to xlr adapters?

Is the included l30 power brick compatible for EU plugs?

Thx a lot


----------



## enomiss

Depends where you order the L30. Be careful. Check with the shop if it's EU.
Doesn't matter if they get warm for as I know... non issue, unless you plan to put them in a closet where the heat can't get away.


----------



## Heyyoudvd

This may be an odd question but can a headphone amp like the L30 power a set of computer speakers?

I currently have an old 5.1 set of crappy Logitech speakers (Z-5300) which I have hooked up to the Xonar DX sound card in my PC.

The way the system works is that there are three 3.5 mm cables going from the Xonar to the Logitech subwoofer (front, center, rear), and then the subwoofer has 5 female outputs, which the 5 satellite speakers are plugged into (they look like RCA connectors, but I’m not sure if it’s some proprietary thing).

What I’m wondering is if it’s possible to plug the L30 into my sound card, take the two front speakers and plug them into the L30 preamp, and then I’ll have a selector between headphones and computer speakers, all working off my Xonar, via the Topping L30.

Is that possible?


----------



## enomiss

I think that subwoofer has a build in amp with volume control? Then you can probably connect it to the L30. You need active speakers to connect to L30. Check if they are active.


----------



## Heyyoudvd

enomiss said:


> I think that subwoofer has a build in amp with volume control? Then you can probably connect it to the L30. You need active speakers to connect to L30. Check if they are active.



Yeah, it’s rated at 280 watts, which seems massive for mediocre computer speakers. Each speaker is 35.3 watts, with the center being 39 and the sub being 100. That seems like an awful lot of power for what this is.

My above proposed setup was that I’d just get rid of the sub, center, and two rear speakers, and just use the front L and R. But what you’re saying makes more sense. After all, it’s specifically a _pre_amp in the L30.

So how would that work, 3.5 to RCA from the Xonar to L30 and then RCA to 3.5 from the L30 preamp to Logitech subwoofer (amp)?

I don’t know a lot about cables. Do I have to worry about sound degradation or can I grab any $10 RCA cables from Amazon?


----------



## MMeirolas (Dec 24, 2020)

enomiss said:


> Depends where you order the L30. Be careful. Check with the shop if it's EU.
> Doesn't matter if they get warm for as I know... non issue, unless you plan to put them in a closet where the heat can't get away.



Thx for your help 

One more thing:

I just got my HD6xx delivered. Running them with my LG V40, Tidal MQA sounds way way better than Spotify Premium. Even tho i updated my Phone to Android 10 and MQA is no longer native... Tried for example with Roberta Flack's "The first time ever i saw your face".

On Spotify it's like she's singing in the far corner of the Hall. Her voice is really thin sounding. On Tidal it's like she's in my head. LOL her voice has more "body"?

The old recording noise which is characteristic is greater or Spotify too.

Btw, i cannot max the Volume on Tidal, cuz my ears would blow out, but i still think the hd6xx are npt playing to it's full potential and the L30 would help.

My question is: the L30/E30 Stack has no MQA support... Will i lose out on quality, or will it still sound better than Spotify because songs have a higher bitrate on Tidal?

Thx


----------



## Makiah S

Just got an email, Apos has L30 and E30 in blue and red! Excited to see new colors finally


----------



## MMeirolas

QUOTE="Mshenay, post: 16058597, member: 292497"]



Just got an email, Apos has L30 and E30 in blue and red! Excited to see new colors finally
[/QUOTE]

The red one looks sexy as hell 

Let's hope Amazon get's those too. Not eager to pay import duties over Apos


----------



## chaotic_angel

hi L30 users,

Anyone use it with Tin P1 or p2, look forward to hear your impression please. And, does it also sting small electricity in your ear?


----------



## bifcake

I feel no shock in my ear. Although, sometimes I use my phones as a defibrillator,  but only on special occasions.


----------



## chaotic_angel

bifcake said:


> I feel no shock in my ear. Although, sometimes I use my phones as a defibrillator,  but only on special occasions.



at which vol position the P1 / P2 can be driven on your experience?
Wait.... "I use my phones as a defibrillator" I dont understand this..


----------



## bifcake

chaotic_angel said:


> at which vol position the P1 / P2 can be driven on your experience?
> Wait.... "I use my phones as a defibrillator" I dont understand this..


----------



## hottyson (Jan 15, 2021)

*I purchased my Topping E30 / Topping L30 stack November 10, from Amazon from seller SHENZHENAUDIO. The Topping L30 amplifier amplifier was only $118.99 on sale. However, I had to return my Topping L30 amplifier to Amazon today. It malfunctioned and destroyed the drivers in my Sony headphones. The headphone drivers were making crackling and popping noises on my ears. I unplugged them but too late and now they are fried. This is a darned shame because the Topping L30 made most every headphone sound very good compared to many other $100 amps. The Topping L30 made my Sony MDR-CD780 sound better than any headphone I have ever heard in my life. No other amp has ever done this. I am tempted to get another or possibly try get the Topping A90. (Stay FAR away from Chi-Fi!) This is not the first time I have been burned by buying poorly made Chinese electronics. I once purchased a $500 DAC that only lasted three months. Luckily the Topping E30 DAC still functions and sounds great. (Returned this cheap Chi-Fi as well.)*
*

*


----------



## enomiss

hottyson said:


> *I purchased my Topping E30 / Topping L30 stack November 10, from Amazon from seller SHENZHENAUDIO. The Topping L30 amplifier amplifier was only $118.99 on sale. However, I had to return my Topping L30 amplifier to Amazon today. It malfunctioned and destroyed the drivers in my Sony headphones. The headphone drivers were making crackling and popping noises on my ears. I unplugged them but too late and now they are fried. This is a darned shame because the Topping L30 made most every headphone sound very good compared to many other $100 amps. The Topping L30 made my Sony MDR-CD780 sound better than any headphone I have ever heard in my life. No other amp has ever done this. I am tempted to get another or possibly try get the Topping A90. This is not the first time I have been burned by buying poorly made Chinese electronics. I once purchased a $500 DAC that only lasted three months. Luckily the Topping E30 DAC still functions and sounds great.*



So how can this happen? Didn't you just have the volume too loud?


----------



## hottyson (Jan 7, 2021)

enomiss said:


> So how can this happen? Didn't you just have the volume too loud?


*I don't know the cause. I think it was just poor quality electronics.*


----------



## M3NTAL

Same thing happened to my L30 just recently. Smells of chlorine - so one or many of the internals are toasted.  No built in protection I guess.  APOS can't find me as a customer and I can't find my purchase e-mail. Basically writing it off, but the headphones it took.... dealing with that now also.


----------



## enomiss (Dec 30, 2020)

M3NTAL said:


> Same thing happened to my L30 just recently. Smells of chlorine - so one or many of the internals are toasted.  No built in protection I guess.  APOS can't find me as a customer and I can't find my purchase e-mail. Basically writing it off, but the headphones it took.... dealing with that now also.



No built in protection for what exactly? Overvoltage? Any chance you guys are using some cheap power source?


----------



## chaotic_angel

hottyson said:


> *I purchased my Topping E30 / Topping L30 stack November 10, from Amazon from seller SHENZHENAUDIO. The Topping L30 amplifier amplifier was only $118.99 on sale. However, I had to return my Topping L30 amplifier to Amazon today. It malfunctioned and destroyed the drivers in my Sony headphones. The headphone drivers were making crackling and popping noises on my ears. I unplugged them but too late and now they are fried. This is a darned shame because the Topping L30 made most every headphone sound very good compared to many other $100 amps. The Topping L30 made my Sony MDR-CD780 sound better than any headphone I have ever heard in my life. No other amp has ever done this. I am tempted to get another or possibly try get the Topping A90. This is not the first time I have been burned by buying poorly made Chinese electronics. I once purchased a $500 DAC that only lasted three months. Luckily the Topping E30 DAC still functions and sounds great.*


 hi, can you compare L30 vs Liquid Spark (LS) on the general sound wise please?
And sorry to hear your experience..


----------



## hottyson (Jan 7, 2021)

chaotic_angel said:


> hi, can you compare L30 vs Liquid Spark (LS) on the general sound wise please?
> And sorry to hear your experience..


*Yes, I would be happy to compare them for you.*
*


The Liquid Spark headphone amplifier is the best deal out there for $100 amps right now. It is such a good deal that I own three of them. It plays VERY well with Beyerdynamics if you like that sort of sound. Violins and french horns have a certain texture to their sound that can usually only be reproduced with high end rigs. The Liquid Spark amp is able to reproduce this texture through Beyerdynamic headphones such as the DT-880 and DT-990. No other budget amp that I have heard is able to accomplish this. The shrill Beyerdynamic highs are tamed quite a bit by the Liquid Spark amp but it is still there if that sort of thing bothers you. If you own the Philips X2HR headphone, it also sounds very good with the Liquid Spark amp. But then again, the Philips X2HR sounds pretty much good on any other amp, including the Topping L30.
.
Now if you are looking to pair the Liquid Spark with the Sennheiser HD6XX, it does not do so well as it makes the sound too thick. On the other hand the Topping L30 amp was the second best of the bunch with the Sennheiser HD6XX if you want to play them loud. The Schiit Magni 3 amp (not plus) is the number one best sounding amp for the Sennheiser HD6XX out of the bunch including the new Magni Heresy. However, the Magni Heresy will play louder and it still sounds pretty darn good. With the Schiit Magni 3/Sennheiser HD6XX pair, there is an upper midrange coloring that brings vocals forward, making the Sennheiser HD6XX much more pleasing to my ears. However, the Schiit Magni 3/Sennheiser HD6XX pair also does not play loud enough for most listeners. I never listen to music loudly. So, I can use the Schiit Magni 3 for my Sennheiser HD6XX without any complaints about the low volume.
.
As I had mentioned in an earlier post, the Topping L30 made my Sony MDR-CD780 sound better than any headphone I have ever heard in my life. However, the Sony MDR-CD780 is a vintage headphone that is not easily available. I had ordered some Fostex headphones to see if I could reproduce this magical experience but sadly the L30 died before the headphones have even arrived. So, perhaps the Topping A90 is in my future. I am dying to have that magical sound once again with the Sony. I can't stop thinking about it. Overall, the Topping L30 will play well with almost every headphone whereas the Liquid Spark headphone amplifier will sound too thick with some headphones like I mentioned earlier with the Sennheiser.
.
One major negative about the Liquid Spark amp is that if you want the matching stack you will get a HORRIBLE DAC. The Liquid Spark DAC cannot even compete with $20 sound cards that I own. I tried to live with the sound three different times over a few months and I just did not enjoy my music anymore with the Liquid Spark DAC. If you go with the Liquid Spark amp, get a Topping E30 DAC or a Schiit Modi 3 DAC and it will sound great. They each sound good in different ways.
.*
*If you get the Topping L30 amp, you can get the matching E30 DAC since it looks great stacked and it is an AWESOME sounding dac for the money. I got mine through Amazon during the holiday sales for only $110.49. It sounds just as good and sometimes better than my $400 Emotiva XDA-2 DAC. Although the Emotiva has many digital inputs and balanced outputs.*


----------



## Heyyoudvd

This is an odd question but will an L30 power a Diana V2?

That’s well above my budget right now, but it’s something I’d like to strive for in the next few years, so I’m curious if the L30 I just ordered will power it.

I suppose if I do end up spending $3000 on headphones, I’ll be able to afford a more expensive amp than an L30, but I’m just curious as a sort of thought exercise if the L30, with all its critical acclaim, would actually be sufficient for the Abyss Diana V2.


----------



## tmb821

Just got a E30/L30 stack.  So far I am loving it! I am coming from a Fiio k3/Schiit Heresy combo. While I loved that combo, I find the new one to be a little cleaner for my taste. Setting the E30 to dac only mode and running 24bit 96kHz makes all my headphones and iems sound fantastic! And it looks cool to match!


----------



## 529128

tmb821 said:


> Just got a E30/L30 stack.  So far I am loving it! I am coming from a Fiio k3/Schiit Heresy combo. While I loved that combo, I find the new one to be a little cleaner for my taste. Setting the E30 to dac only mode and running 24bit 96kHz makes all my headphones and iems sound fantastic! And it looks cool to match!


Funny you find the Topping to sound cleaner as the Heresy is very clean indeed. And the dac should not be a significant difference.


----------



## cel4145

hottyson said:


> *Yes, I would be happy to compare them for you.
> The Liquid Spark headphone amplifier is the best deal out there for $100 amps right now. It is such a good deal that I own three of them. It plays VERY well with Beyerdynamics if you like that sort of sound. Violins and french horns have a certain texture to their sound that can usually only be reproduced with high end rigs. The Liquid Spark amp is able to reproduce this texture through Beyerdynamic headphones such as the DT-880 and DT-990. No other budget amp that I have heard is able to accomplish this. The shrill Beyerdynamic highs are tamed quite a bit by the Liquid Spark amp but it is still there if that sort of thing bothers you. If you own the Philips X2HR headphone, it also sounds very good with the Liquid Spark amp. But then again, the Philips X2HR sounds pretty much good on any other amp, including the Topping L30.
> .
> Now if you are looking to pair the Liquid Spark with the Sennheiser HD6XX, it does not do so well as it makes the sound too thick. On the other hand the Topping L30 amp was the second best of the bunch with the Sennheiser HD6XX if you want to play them loud. The Schiit Magni 3 amp (not plus) is the number one best sounding amp for the Sennheiser HD6XX out of the bunch including the new Magni Heresy. However, the Magni Heresy will play louder and it still sounds pretty darn good. With the Schiit Magni 3/Sennheiser HD6XX pair, there is an upper midrange coloring that brings vocals forward, making the Sennheiser HD6XX much more pleasing to my ears. However, the Schiit Magni 3/Sennheiser HD6XX pair also does not play loud enough for most listeners. I never listen to music loudly. So, I can use the Schiit Magni 3 for my Sennheiser HD6XX without any complaints about the low volume.
> ...



Just some friendly feedback. The smaller blue font you are using is a little hard to read on my phone. It's a combination of the size of the font and the contrast against the background color. Not everyone has 25-year-old eyes


----------



## rick88

cel4145 said:


> Just some friendly feedback. The smaller blue font you are using is a little hard to read on my phone. It's a combination of the size of the font and the contrast against the background color. Not everyone has 25-year-old eyes



Glad it's not just me.


----------



## rick88 (Dec 31, 2020)

3 weeks in with my L30 and I'm liking it a lot. Plenty of good clean power and great sound for the buck. I had previously ordered a Schiit Magni Heresy to have a matching stack with my Modi 3 DAC, but unfortunately I returned it the day after receiving it. It sounded very good but it had the infamous noisy volume control that plagues some of Schiit's headphone amps. I don't care if it is _only _noticeable while turning when the music is paused, it was/is completely unacceptable to me.


----------



## cel4145 (Dec 31, 2020)

rick88 said:


> Glad it's not just me.



I'm sure it's not just you and me. I used to do a lot of UI work, and this color and size combination would negatively affect the readability for a lot of people who are not under 40 with good eyesight.


----------



## rick88 (Dec 31, 2020)

cel4145 said:


> I'm sure it's not just you and me. I used to a lot of UI work, and this color and size combination would negatively affect the readability for a lot of people who are not under 40 with good eyesight.



Yeah I had to zoom in quite a bit on my cellphone to be able to read it, but even then it was not easy with the font color and lack of contrast to the background.


----------



## bifcake

tmb821 said:


> Just got a E30/L30 stack.  So far I am loving it! I am coming from a Fiio k3/Schiit Heresy combo. While I loved that combo, I find the new one to be a little cleaner for my taste. Setting the E30 to dac only mode and running 24bit 96kHz makes all my headphones and iems sound fantastic! And it looks cool to match!



I have that stack as well and it sounds really great with my Senns 580.  It sounds nice at 24/96 and it sounds even better with JRiver upsampled to DSD at 512.


----------



## tmb821

Anybody else notice that the L30 runs warm? Is it just mine? I can have it just sitting there powered on, nothing playing and it’s warm, not hot but on the warmer side of warm. Normal? I used to be able to leave my heresy on for days at a time and it never got warm like this. Not a big deal to shut it off, just curious if it’s normal for it to run warm.


----------



## bifcake

tmb821 said:


> Anybody else notice that the L30 runs warm? Is it just mine? I can have it just sitting there powered on, nothing playing and it’s warm, not hot but on the warmer side of warm. Normal? I used to be able to leave my heresy on for days at a time and it never got warm like this. Not a big deal to shut it off, just curious if it’s normal for it to run warm.


It definitely runs more than warm.  It's toasty.  I've had it for about a month and so far, it doesn't seem to be an issue.


----------



## tmb821

bifcake said:


> It definitely runs more than warm.  It's toasty.  I've had it for about a month and so far, it doesn't seem to be an issue.



Thanks. I figured it was probably normal.


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## enomiss (Dec 31, 2020)

tmb821 said:


> Thanks. I figured it was probably normal.



It's a feature, keeps your coffee warm!
Personally I've not experienced it getting really warm, and I have the E30 on top of it. The whole package is just nice warm, but not hot at all.


----------



## Claypole

I’ve been considering a desktop headphone amp for a while, but have had my doubts as to whether it would be worth it with my current headphones.

I have an old set Grado SR125i, which are relatively low impedance and sound fine out of my Fiio M6 (with the volume cranked up a bit more than with iems). Would the Grados benefit from an amp like this? 

I also have Westone UM Pro 30, which are about 56 ohms, and quite sensitive. I have no problem driving these from anything I plug them into. Some people think because they are so sensitive, they don’t benefit from an amp, whilst I have also read that multiple balanced armatures do benefit from an amp.

The Topping L30 has piqued my interest because it has the -9db low gain setting, which is supposed to suit sensitive/low impedance iems. It also seems to be able to drive much more demanding headphones.

The plan would be to connect the Fiio M6 to the L30 using the line out function. Would this set up improve the sound of my phones, or would it just give me nothing more than an unneeded increase in volume?


----------



## bifcake

I used my IEMs with the L30. The reason I did that was because I needed to amplify them, but because this was the way to listen to my DAC and bypass the sound card and the headphone output from my PC.


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## Lalerfy (Jan 1, 2021)

Has anyone seen a comparison between the L30 and the $149 Zen-Can Amp yet ??
►https://Amazon.com/dp/B08F39N9J1


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## cel4145

hottyson said:


> *I purchased my Topping E30 / Topping L30 stack November 10, from Amazon from seller SHENZHENAUDIO. The Topping L30 amplifier amplifier was only $118.99 on sale. However, I had to return my Topping L30 amplifier to Amazon today. It malfunctioned and destroyed the drivers in my Sony headphones. The headphone drivers were making crackling and popping noises on my ears. I unplugged them but too late and now they are fried. This is a darned shame because the Topping L30 made most every headphone sound very good compared to many other $100 amps. The Topping L30 made my Sony MDR-CD780 sound better than any headphone I have ever heard in my life. No other amp has ever done this. I am tempted to get another or possibly try get the Topping A90. This is not the first time I have been burned by buying poorly made Chinese electronics. I once purchased a $500 DAC that only lasted three months. Luckily the Topping E30 DAC still functions and sounds great.*





enomiss said:


> So how can this happen? Didn't you just have the volume too loud?



Over at ASR, people suspect that the amp may be subject to failing from ESD. And the Topping engineer who participates in the L30 measurements thread has _not_ denied that ESD could be killing L30 amps. If Topping knew they were immune to this kind of damage from ESD, I would think that they would say something. But who knows for sure?

Just to be safe, you guys better be careful this winter with your L30s. If you live somewhere that static shock is common, ground yourself by touching a metal part of your desktop computer chassis before touching the L30.


----------



## enomiss (Jan 4, 2021)

cel4145 said:


> Over at ASR, people suspect that the amp may be subject to failing from ESD. And the Topping engineer who participates in the L30 measurements thread has _not_ denied that ESD could be killing L30 amps. If Topping knew they were immune to this kind of damage from ESD, I would think that they would say something. But who knows for sure?
> 
> Just to be safe, you guys better be careful this winter with your L30s. If you live somewhere that static shock is common, ground yourself by touching a metal part of your desktop computer chassis before touching the L30.



How many units have been sold? Thousands at least I guess, and there are like 2 or 3 people who reported this? Bad experiences always find their way to the internet. I guess it's exagerated and those units already had faults in them.

But I'm curious what Topping will report after doing research.


----------



## cel4145

enomiss said:


> How many units have been sold? Thousands at least I guess, and there are like 2 or 3 people who reported this? Bad experiences always find their way to the internet. I guess it's exagerated and those units already had faults in them.
> 
> But I'm curious what Topping will report after doing research.



So far there have been only a few people. But this product was only released in August, and winter has just arrived. EDS causing failure is very common with electronics. Makes good sense to be careful of EDS if one frequently experiences static discharge in their lives during the winter. And don't sit at your computer in wool socks, no shoes, on carpet. lol


----------



## Claypole

If static is an issue where your kit is located, a nice leafy pot plant or two can help.


----------



## cel4145

A regular contributor over at ASR has just confirmed that his L30 took out a pair of Audio Technica W5000. 

The static shock to the amp occurred the day before when the user was powering down the amp without headphones plugged in. There was no indication that the amp had failed. 

The next day when he powered it on and inserted the headphones, the headphones were damaged. He could smell the damage to the headphones. 

Best to take this seriously, guys.


----------



## enomiss

cel4145 said:


> A regular contributor over at ASR has just confirmed that his L30 took out a pair of Audio Technica W5000.
> 
> The static shock to the amp occurred the day before when the user was powering down the amp without headphones plugged in. There was no indication that the amp had failed.
> 
> ...



Does anyone know what actually happens - in such a case - that damaged the headphones? is the voltage regulator damaged due to EDS and it sends too much voltage? Don't have some headphones protection for this? How to know?


----------



## cel4145

enomiss said:


> Does anyone know what actually happens - in such a case - that damaged the headphones? is the voltage regulator damaged due to EDS and it sends too much voltage? Don't have some headphones protection for this? How to know?



Check out the L30 review thread at ASR. They have been discussing it.


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## jimbob54 (Jan 6, 2021)

cel4145 said:


> Check out the L30 review thread at ASR. They have been discussing it.



That would be me. Just to clarify, its the amp that I could smell. Once I realised it had an issue I disconnected and removed from the rack. Then sniffed it- definite acrid component burn smell- but no fireworks or smoke the night before. But the godawful crackle/ bangs on inserting the headphone jack were nasty. At zero volume by the way.  A cheap second pair of headphones did the same - so something in the amp is fried- but it wasnt "dead". I didnt even try to play anything through it. It's my (not illogical) supposition rather than any electrical knowledge I have that the ESD on shut down caused it.


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## rick88 (Jan 6, 2021)

I decided to return mine before the return window at Amazon expired. All this talk about the ESD issue has me concered about the overall long-term reliability of the L30. Also I have experienced the occasional crackling/static sound that I have narrowed down to the L30, and the headphone jack is pretty loose as well.

It's disappointing because I really liked the sound, and I had ordered it to replace a Schiit Magni Heresy that I returned the day after it arrived due to the noisy volume control that was/is unacceptable to me.


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## Heyyoudvd

Do we know if this is a common thing or if it was just bad luck for one or two people?

I just received my L30 yesterday and I’m not sure whether I should keep it or not.

All electronics have lemons. That’s the nature of producing thousands of something. So the question is whether this is actually a common phenomenon or whether it’s just a couple cases of bad luck that are getting a ton of attention.


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## enomiss

Heyyoudvd said:


> Do we know if this is a common thing or if it was just bad luck for one or two people?
> 
> I just received my L30 yesterday and I’m not sure whether I should keep it or not.
> 
> All electronics have lemons. That’s the nature of producing thousands of something. So the question is whether this is actually a common phenomenon or whether it’s just a couple cases of bad luck that are getting a ton of attention.



Same thing I've been pointing out. If I look at all the hardware in my house that is working fine, for every piece of hardware there are horror stories on the internet. So far I think it's only 1 or 2 people.


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## baskingshark (Jan 7, 2021)

It seems from the forum complaints, it appears to be possibly ESD causing the sudden death of the Topping L30 amps? Maybe grounding the metal casing can help prevent this? Do most of the cases of the amp dying happen in winter locations?

Hmm FWIW, I've been using it daily for 3 months now, few hours daily, haven't experienced this issue before. I've been using highly sensitive IEMs all the way to power hungry headphones on different gain settings too. But I stay in a humid country so less chance of static compared to winter areas?

The L30 does get warm with longer sessions though.


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## hottyson (Jan 8, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> It seems from the forum complaints, it appears to be possibly ESD causing the sudden death of the Topping L30 amps? Maybe grounding the metal casing can help prevent this?


*This is a really good question. I also wonder if anyone knows if this or some other way that would help. Living in the Las Vegas desert, I most often get a small electronic static shock each time I reach for a knob on my headphone amplifiers. All of my electronics usually survive except for my Topping L30 of course. Is there a setup of some sort to reduce the shock to the audio equipment by running a wire to somewhere from each device to somewhere???*


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## baskingshark (Jan 7, 2021)

hottyson said:


> *This is a really good question. I am also wonder if anyone knows if this or some other way that would help. Living in the Las Vegas desert, I most often get a small electronic static shock each time I reach for a knob on my headphone amplifiers. All of my electronics usually survive except for my Topping L30 of course. Is there a setup of some sort to reduce the shock to the audio equipment by running a wire to somewhere from each device to somewhere???*



Theoretically, u can ground the device by running an earth wire elsewhere. Or use some antistatic techniques like touching a metal object (to discharge) before touching the Topping L30. Or I've seen some folks use moisturizers/humidifiers to increase humidity or they even use antistatic sprays and remove woollen carpets/clothing so as to minimize static.

But as consumers, we shouldn't be needing to do these stuff, there's no excuse for modern technology to not incorporate ESD prevention isn't it? I hope they investigate this issue and let us know.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

I haven't seen anything that would point to ESD tbh. As far as I remember some one brought it up and everyone jumped on the train. But maybe I'm missing the one post that explains it all. Anyway I don't own the amp, just interested from an engineering perspective. @hottyson Did you incorporate any usb isolators, ifi defender, etc in your chain?


----------



## hottyson

DuncanDirkDick said:


> I haven't seen anything that would point to ESD tbh. As far as I remember some one brought it up and everyone jumped on the train. But maybe I'm missing the one post that explains it all. Anyway I don't own the amp, just interested from an engineering perspective. @hottyson Did you incorporate any usb isolators, ifi defender, etc in your chain?


*No usb isolators. I am running all of my DACs through optical S/PDIF inputs.*


----------



## cel4145

DuncanDirkDick said:


> I haven't seen anything that would point to ESD tbh. As far as I remember some one brought it up and everyone jumped on the train. But maybe I'm missing the one post that explains it all. Anyway I don't own the amp, just interested from an engineering perspective. @hottyson Did you incorporate any usb isolators, ifi defender, etc in your chain?



If it's not ESD, then that's potentially worse. It means the amps are randomly failing and then blowing up headphones. At least if it's with ESD, it's potentially controllable by the user by avoiding static shocks to the amp. Ground yourself to metal on your computer chassis immediately before touching the amp.

Anyway, the ESD has and is being discussed in the L30 review thread over at ASR. You can check it out over there if you want to learn more.


----------



## M3NTAL

"Let me do my anti-static dance before I turn on my music and dance" - Head-Fi 2021


----------



## MazeFrame

There are some pictures of blown apart voice coils and more interesting to me, the fried Op-Amp in the L30.
Looking at the pictures of the burnt Op-Amp (of whatever make and model it may be, the markings were sanded down), there was quite some power flowing through the poor chip. I don't have an L30 to realy check, so take the following with a grain of salt:
- There is no protection in the L30 to dissipate Overcurrent or Overvoltage. No fuse on the input, no NTCs, nothing.
- There is also no fuse after the two LDOs (LM317 and LM337) providing the power rails, so under fault conditions, you could see 1.5A (in bursts higher) flowing.
- Next to the LM337 is a circuit around an 5532, the PCB-label suggests a DC-detection. Question is if that directly controlls relays (similar to the AMB-Labs epsilon12) or just reports to the ST-branded uController (?) between gain switch and headphone jack.

The lack of any OCP is a problem in my eyes since the combined 9mF or capacitors in there will turn a small fault (like an Op-Amp damaged by ESD) into magic smoke. Just like a Fuse on a Graphicscard may not save the device itself, it may save connected gear liked headphones.

I am new here and don't know how the picture posting works yet


----------



## baskingshark

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...e-amplifier-review.15226/page-124#post-630733

Seems like in the above post, John Yang the Topping rep/engineer has something to say about probable ESD in the Topping L30 sets that died.


----------



## kilonewt

I returned my L30 back to Amazon after reading all the posts at Audiosciencereview regarding the potential ESD issue. I have a metal feet on my desk to help it ground to earth, but I am not taking chances with that thing going up in smoke or damaging my headphones.


----------



## rick88 (Jan 9, 2021)

It's a shame the issue has shown up with the L30. Oh well, at least I was fortunate that I heard about it while I could still return mine for a refund. While mine didn't fail or ruin my headphones, I didn't like how loose the headphone jack was on it, and didn't feel confident in it's long-term reliability. On a side note, when I went to Amazon to start the process I noticed the price went up to $149.99.

I've had really bad luck with gear in the last couple months. I bought and returned an E30, then a Schiit Magni Heresy, and now the L30. At least my two Schiit Modi 3 DACs have been trouble free.

I am now considering trying an ifi Zen Can Launch Edition. I'm back to using my trusty and great sounding Fiio A5 portable amp. In all honesty to me it sounds as good as the L30 or Heresy, but I wanted a desktop amp as to try and preserve the battery on the A5.


----------



## cel4145

baskingshark said:


> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...e-amplifier-review.15226/page-124#post-630733
> 
> Seems like in the above post, John Yang the Topping rep/engineer has something to say about probable ESD in the Topping L30 sets that died.



In a previous post, it seems he's basing the probability on number of units he knows about, versus total number sold.

Given that ESD in the home increases dramatically in the dead of winter in many cold climates versus a couple of months ago, such data would seem to be an unreliable predictor of the probable risk for those in cold climates.

But sure. If someone lives in a humid, tropical climate all year round, then the risk is likely very, very low.

For those of us who live in places where ESD in the home goes from a rare occasion in the fall, to multiple times a day right now, you can imagine how Topping sales versus failure data could be off by a couple of orders of magnitude or more as a predictor.


----------



## baskingshark

cel4145 said:


> In a previous post, it seems he's basing the probability on number of units he knows about, versus total number sold.
> 
> Given that ESD in the home increases dramatically in the dead of winter in many cold climates versus a couple of months ago, such data would seem to be an unreliable predictor of the probable risk for those in cold climates.
> 
> ...



Agree with you, I do hope Topping at least allows a refund preemptively before more users get affected. Or allow a 1:1 exchange for new L30s with built in protection. It's a big pity, the Topping L30 really sounds good, but those living in colder climates may have a ticking time bomb in their audio setup! More so if some folks have expensive gear! I really do hope Topping can at least provide good CS for everyone, it is about their future reputation too.

I live near the equator and hardly encounter ESD. FWIW, I will still be using the Topping L30 for now, but with lowend cheap IEMs/earbuds, and I'll try to see if I can ground my unit.


----------



## Heyyoudvd

I just received my L30 and set it up. I’ve only listened for short while so far but I’m not sure what I think.

Coming from no amp, this seems harsh to me. The sound may be a little fuller but it also seems shrill and tires out my ears.

I’ll have to listen a lot more before coming to any conclusions.

For reference, the two sources I’ve used are the Xonar DX card in my PC and the Apple dongle connected to my iPhone.

And I’ve only really tested with my A900 and a tiny bit with my M50. My 6XX should arrive next week.


----------



## tmb821 (Jan 10, 2021)

Heyyoudvd said:


> I just received my L30 and set it up. I’ve only listened for short while so far but I’m not sure what I think.
> 
> Coming from no amp, this seems harsh to me. The sound may be a little fuller but it also seems shrill and tires out my ears.
> 
> ...




It is very clean and detailed. That may come off as shrill. It’ll take time for your ears to adjust. The 6xx is a great pairing with the L30.


----------



## cel4145

Heyyoudvd said:


> I just received my L30 and set it up. I’ve only listened for short while so far but I’m not sure what I think.
> 
> *Coming from no amp, this seems harsh to me. The sound may be a little fuller but it also seems shrill and tires out my ears.*
> 
> ...



There might be improved sound quality which is causing you to hear the deficiences in a recording or your existing headphones. For example, could be that dynamic peaks in the treble were clipped with your previous source device. Now the treble peaks are lounder/stronger.


----------



## cel4145

Update on the L30 and ESD. The designer of the Topping L30 over at ASR has now advised someone to stop using his L30 if his serial number is below 2012xxxx, until they can investigate further. Models newer than that had a component change to improve voltage regulation, so it is believed the newer units will not kill the headphones if the amp fails. 

Topping has ordered some ESD testing gear so that they can investigate further whether that is the issue. But as pointed out in the ASR thread, if this was a result of a bad batch of op-amps on boards with the older voltage regulation, they'll have trouble pinning down the problem further as to specific serial numbers affected.


----------



## baskingshark

cel4145 said:


> Update on the L30 and ESD. The designer of the Topping L30 over at ASR has now advised someone to stop using his L30 if his serial number is below 2012xxxx, until they can investigate further. Models newer than that had a component change to improve voltage regulation, so it is believed the newer units will not kill the headphones if the amp fails.
> 
> Topping has ordered some ESD testing gear so that they can investigate further whether that is the issue. But as pointed out in the ASR thread, if this was a result of a bad batch of op-amps on boards with the older voltage regulation, they'll have trouble pinning down the problem further as to specific serial numbers affected.



John Yang has also said some news of their investigation will come out in the next 1 - 2 days: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...e-amplifier-review.15226/page-133#post-633329

But it is disappointing DROP and other shops are still selling the L30 without any warning about this potential ESD issue. It is like business as normal and only those that are deep in these forums know about the issue. A lot of layconsumers will still be buying it unwittingly sigh.


----------



## cel4145

baskingshark said:


> John Yang has also said some news of their investigation will come out in the next 1 - 2 days: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...e-amplifier-review.15226/page-133#post-633329



If you read the recent comments around that post, I think he was talking about Topping's policy for how they would handle returns. But I could be wrong.



baskingshark said:


> But it is disappointing DROP and other shops are still selling the L30 without any warning about this potential ESD issue. It is like business as normal and only those that are deep in these forums know about the issue. A lot of layconsumers will still be buying it unwittingly sigh.



What also concerns me is the fact that the voltage regulation was improved with the 2012xxxx releases. This makes me wonder if Topping didn't realize amp failures could result in headphone destruction with the old voltage regulation? If so, then L30 owners have kind of been left in the dark about how safe the older amps are.


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## baskingshark (Jan 12, 2021)

cel4145 said:


> If you read the recent comments around that post, I think he was talking about Topping's policy for how they would handle returns. But I could be wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> What also concerns me is the fact that the voltage regulation was improved with the 2012xxxx releases. This makes me wonder if Topping didn't realize amp failures could result in headphone destruction with the old voltage regulation? If so, then L30 owners have kind of been left in the dark about how safe the older amps are.



Agreed. As u say, the sneaky thing is Topping was aware of the possible ESD fault and stealthily released a "fixed" version in the 2012 series. I'm not sure if it is common in the industry to release a fix without letting the older consumers know, but I'm not gonna be buying Topping products from now on.

I do hope they let us existing customers get a refund, or at least do a 1: 1 exchange for the fixed versions.


----------



## cel4145

baskingshark said:


> Agreed. As u say, the sneaky thing is Topping was aware of the possible ESD fault and stealthily released a "fixed" version in the 2012 series. I'm not sure if it is common in the industry to release a fix without letting the older consumers know, but I'm not gonna be buying Topping products from now on.
> 
> I do hope they let us existing customers get a refund, or at least do a 1: 1 exchange for the fixed versions.



That's not exactly what I meant.

ESD killing the amp is one issue. And it hasn't been proven that is causing amp failure.

The problem with DC voltage protection is another issue, the reason why headphones are being killed once the amp fails.


----------



## Heyyoudvd

Update from Topping:

https://www.facebook.com/topping2008


I don’t like the language. If you have a unit below the new 2012**** serial number, you can exchange with the dealer “should you feel so inclined”. That’s pretty vague.

My L30 has been great so far. Is it a ticking time bomb? Is the issue rare and this recall is just for peace of mind, or is this a widespread issue that really demands an exchange? Topping’s response is extremely vague, so I don’t know whether I should send a seemingly-fine unit across the continent to get an exchange from headphones.com or not.


----------



## baskingshark

Heyyoudvd said:


> Update from Topping:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/topping2008
> 
> ...



I've emailed HIFIGO (where I bought my set) to enquire about exchanging it for the new 2012 series. I'm not sure how much the returns cost will be to China but will update if they reply.


----------



## acbarn

Heyyoudvd said:


> Update from Topping:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/topping2008
> 
> ...


I’d say that you should opt for a replacement precisely because their statement is so vague.


----------



## cel4145

Heyyoudvd said:


> Update from Topping:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/topping2008
> 
> ...



They're probably purposely being vague to avoid liability for blown up headphones. 

As well as potential ear damage. One person at ASR described his IEM as sounding like it was exploding inside his ear

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds/sequential-damage.19003/page-8#post-634026


----------



## cel4145

baskingshark said:


> I've emailed HIFIGO (where I bought my set) to enquire about exchanging it for the new 2012 series. I'm not sure how much the returns cost will be to China but will update if they reply.



Some Chinese vendors are apparently offering the purchaser the opportunity to destroy the amp, rather than ship it back.


----------



## sennfan83261 (Jan 13, 2021)

Heyyoudvd said:


> Update from Topping:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/topping2008
> 
> ...


So, Topping admits that a certain batch of L30's is at fault for damaging a number of L30 owner's headphones/iems. However, Topping provides no word in their announcement regarding compensation, or initiating some kind of compensation process, to those owners except for a replacement L30. Doesn't this seem wrong to anyone else here?


----------



## Heyyoudvd

So it seems the 2012***** serial number fixes the headphone issue but not the ESD issue.

According to John Yang (Topping’s engineer) posting on AudioScienceReview, the ESD issue was finally just replicated in their labs, so they’re now implementing a fix for a future version. But that could take a couple months.

The 2012***** variant will protect your headphones, though, but not the unit itself. So if something happens to the unit, they’ll replace it (it has a 1 year warranty), but at least your headphones are safe.

What a strange situation.

I don’t know whether I should send in a seemingly-working amp for a replacement that’s only half fixed...


----------



## baskingshark

baskingshark said:


> I've emailed HIFIGO (where I bought my set) to enquire about exchanging it for the new 2012 series. I'm not sure how much the returns cost will be to China but will update if they reply.



I contacted HIFIGO, and they have kindly submitted my serial no. and details to Topping, and promise to send a replacement L30. Though they say the Topping side may need some time to produce the newer series L30 with the fixes, so delivery date is still pending. Good service from HIFIGO, no complaints from myself on this aspect.


----------



## enomiss

sennfan83261 said:


> So, Topping admits that a certain batch of L30's is at fault for damaging a number of L30 owner's headphones/iems. However, Topping provides no word in their announcement regarding compensation, or initiating some kind of compensation process, to those owners except for a replacement L30. Doesn't this seem wrong to anyone else here?



No, that would trigger a whole lot of users abusing the compensation procedure. They have said over at ASR that individual cases will be handled. So if you HP or ears have been blown to pieces, just contact them. No need for them to dump all kinds of hypothetical problems on the internet with potential solutions.



Heyyoudvd said:


> According to John Yang (Topping’s engineer) posting on AudioScienceReview, the ESD issue was finally just replicated in their labs, so they’re now implementing a fix for a future version. But that could take a couple months.



It is probably a very minor fix in practice, I don't imagine it to take months, I think ESD fixed units wil be rolling out within 2 weeks. But that's just my guess.


----------



## sennfan83261 (Jan 14, 2021)

enomiss said:


> No, that would trigger a whole lot of users abusing the compensation procedure. They have said over at ASR that individual cases will be handled. So if you HP or ears have been blown to pieces, just contact them. No need for them to dump all kinds of hypothetical problems on the internet with potential solutions.


Since when did John_Yang speak for the company? Mr. Yang's statement, which was non-committal, came before the official announcement, the latter which being silent as to any type channel or process being made available for owners whose gear that the faulty L30's damaged or destroyed. So, his superiors may have changed their mind on that issue or Mr. Yang spoke out of turn. 

As to abusing the compensation procedure, I would imagine Topping would require users to send their damaged gear to Topping for inspection to determine whether any damage was likely caused by a faulty L30. For example, I cannot imagine someone who owns an L30 sending back an Elex with a dead driver if the problem was previously caused by Focal's already known crappy solder joint that may lead to breakage of the voice coil rather than a burnt voice coil from excessive ESD/DC damage.


----------



## enomiss (Jan 14, 2021)

sennfan83261 said:


> Since when did John_Yang speak for the company? Mr. Yang's statement, which was non-committal, came before the official announcement, the latter which being silent as to any type channel or process being made available for owners whose gear that the faulty L30's damaged or destroyed. So, his superiors may have changed their mind on that issue or Mr. Yang spoke out of turn.



He is the link between the company and the consumers. It's in his and Topping's interest that he is not spreading false information.
You don't need a public procedure for a problem that happened to a handful of people. Obviously they will have their specific procedure for those cases.
The public replacement procedure is obviously for people with a _functioning _L30, which is the majority.


----------



## sennfan83261

enomiss said:


> He is the link between the company and the consumers. It's in his and Topping's interest that he is not spreading false information.
> You don't need a public procedure for a problem that happened to a handful of people. Obviously they will have their specific procedure for those cases.
> The public replacement procedure is obviously for people with a _functioning _L30, which is the majority.


So, he a representative of Topping? So, anything he says may be construed as an admission by Topping such as the lack of ESD testing equipment prior to the news of the L30's destroying gear and potentially injuring the hearing of L30 users? Hmmm, this can expose Topping US assets (I doubt they have any) and its US-based partners and sellers like Apos to product liability lawsuits if someone suffered any injury that can be traced to a faulty L30 unit.


----------



## enomiss (Jan 14, 2021)

sennfan83261 said:


> So, he a representative of Topping? So, anything he says may be construed as an admission by Topping such as the lack of ESD testing equipment prior to the news of the L30's destroying gear and potentially injuring the hearing of L30 users? Hmmm, this can expose Topping US assets (I doubt they have any) and its US-based partners and sellers like Apos to product liability lawsuits if someone suffered any injury that can be traced to a faulty L30 unit.



Such an unpleasant attitude... not trying to generalize, but why do Americans have the word lawsuit in every second paragraph? It's such a tiring attitude. Chill down, you're getting a replacement. They're obviously doing their best to solve this matter. Some guy(s) might be working over nights because of this.
(43) Topping L30 Headphone Amplifier Review | Page 124 | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum


----------



## sennfan83261 (Jan 15, 2021)

enomiss said:


> Such an unpleasant attitude... not trying to generalize, but why do Americans have the word lawsuit in every second paragraph? It's such a tiring attitude. Chill down, you're getting a replacement. They're obviously doing their best to solve this matter. Some guy(s) might be working over nights because of this.
> (43) Topping L30 Headphone Amplifier Review | Page 124 | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum


That's the reality of the situation. If it were only L30's blowing up or damaging themselves and nothing else, then I doubt there would be as much rancor other than yet another example of QC issues plaguing Topping products. However, here we have L30's damaging other property and possibly causing injury to users due to a faulty product design admitted by Topping. That's when the situation gets more serious. They were selling L30's without a headphone output protect until this past December (didn't they learn anything from Schitt(?!) who just so happens to be a frequent target of Mr. Yang's ire on ASR), and just a few days ago, Topping finally obtained ESD testing equipment. Did this amp pass any safety certifications? If their US sellers were selling this defective product and it caused property damage and injury (worse), then they too can be exposed to liability and left holding the bag (unless there was an indemnification clause in the contract between Topping and those sellers with Topping helping out to foot the bill).


----------



## hottyson (Jan 15, 2021)

*I was the second person in to report the Topping L30 amplifier destroying headphones. The first person did not "cooperate" as it was put by JohnYang1997 at audiosciencereview. I am thankful that I bought this piece of garbage through Amazon as I was able to get my money back for the Topping L30 amplifier. However, JohnYang1997 said to contact the sellers to deal with headphone compensation on an individual basis. My attempt to communicate with the seller for headphone compensation was a complete fail. I think any attempt to collect ANY compensation on headphones destroyed by Topping will be denied and will likely only waste your time.

I explained the situation back and forth through Amazon messaging system and this was the final response.*
From: SHENZHENAUDIO   22:46 01/14
Hi, you did not contact me when your earphone defective. It was pass a half month, the factory can not accept this matter. Thanks for your understanding.

*So, if Topping did not destroy your headphones on a date they like, don't bother. Typical Chi-Fi electronics that will destroy your headphones. I should have known better than to buy Chi-Fi. I once bought a Chinese DAC for $500 that sounded AMAZING but died after only three months. I should have learned my lesson then. Well, I sure have learned to stay away from Chi-Fi now.*
*.
I have a Ray Samuels XP-7 amplifier made in the USA that I purchased in 2003 or 2004. It still works flawlessly today and is the best amp I own. Heck, Ray would even sell you one today as they are still available on his website after seventeen years!  Quality components and USA made is worth the money. 
.*
*You all need to do yourself a really big favour and buy American. If you can't afford a Ray Samuels or other American amp, get a USA made $99 Schiit Magni 3+ or $99 Schiit Heresy. Ultimately, stay away from the Chi-Fi crap. That way you don't have a disposable amp that you will have to throw in the trash. So what if it sounds good for two weeks. You won't have a working amp after that and now even this craziness of Chi-Fi now killing our cherished headphones.



*


----------



## Arniesb

hottyson said:


> *I was the second person in to report the Topping L30 amplifier destroying headphones. The first person did not "cooperate" as it was put by JohnYang1997 at audiosciencereview. I am thankful that I bought this piece of garbage through Amazon as I was able to get my money back for the Topping L30 amplifier. However, JohnYang1997 said to contact the sellers to deal with headphone compensation on an individual basis. My attempt to communicate with the seller for headphone compensation was a complete fail. I think any attempt to collect ANY compensation on headphones destroyed by Topping will be denied and will likely only waste your time.
> 
> I explained the situation back and forth through Amazon messaging system and this was the final response.*
> From: SHENZHENAUDIO   22:46 01/14
> ...


Òh please, Schiit had its problems too and its a Usa company!
There is ton of companies that had problems.
Most important thing is to a responsibility and Topping did take responsibility.
i have Topping dac/amp for 3 years and it works great.


----------



## cel4145 (Jan 15, 2021)

enomiss said:


> Such an unpleasant attitude... not trying to generalize, but why do Americans have the word lawsuit in every second paragraph? It's such a tiring attitude.



I think you might be used to the consumer protections in the EU. In the US, it often takes a big fuss with companies, both in direct conversation and on social media, to get companies to take action.




enomiss said:


> Chill down, you're getting a replacement. They're obviously doing their best to solve this matter. Some guy(s) might be working over nights because of this.



As @sennfan83261 pointed out, they haven't put out a public statement policy for replacing damaged headphones yet. Which suggests to me that they're not. Anyone with damaged headphones is probably going to have to make a big fuss on social media and in private dialogue with Topping to get any kind of action on that.

Also, the replacement process doesn't seem to be going well for everyone. Someone over at ASR reported their vendor wanted to wait until they got a bunch of L30s returned before they would get a batch of replacements. So send it back in and wait. And wait.

On the other hand, some vendors are making it easy by asking that people destroy them, avoiding the issue the hassle and cost of return shipping. However, I have not heard if they're asking for photographic evidence that the flawed L30 units have been destroyed. Those might just end up back on the used market.

So there's quite a bit here that could be handled better.


----------



## jestercow

"As you might have heard, besides the DC protection design improvement on the L30 (serial number 2012 or higher), TOPPING has also further refined the L30 to address the ESD concern in rare instances. I am happy to let you know that the replacement unit you are entitled to will include all the latest revisions."

Working with my seller (Apos) to get my unit exchanged. Mine had not exhibited any strange behavior but I was worried about losing not just an amp, but any headphones I had plugged in. CJ over at Apos worked with me to get a replacement set up, as he seems to understand the gravity of the situation. I've removed the L30 from my signal chain and am currently just waiting for a replacement from the aforementioned updated batches. I cannot speak highly enough of the folks at Apos, they've always been understanding and have worked with me quickly to resolve any issues I had.


----------



## jestercow

https://apos.audio/blogs/news/update-on-topping-l30-amp

January 14, 2021Apos Updates
*Update on TOPPING L30 Amp*
We want to start by thanking everyone who’s bought a TOPPING L30 Headphone Amp from Apos Audio. We’re incredibly proud to sell this high-performing amp, and it seems that the Apos community loves it as much as we do. 
We understand that some community members are concerned that their TOPPING L30 could potentially damage their headphones or IEMs. Our team has taken note of all concerns and is actively helping our customers. We want to clear the air and share with you what steps we’re taking to ensure the performance of the TOPPING products we sell and the longevity of your headphones and other gear. 
The concern is about a terminal electrical breakdown in the amp that could potentially compromise headphones in rare circumstances. Although it’s statistically unlikely for you to encounter this issue with your L30, we want to do everything we can to ensure the issue is alleviated.
As a precautionary measure, TOPPING identified an opportunity to further improve the efficacy of the DC protection built into the L30. Since December 2020, TOPPING implemented improvements to the protection circuit in the L30. These improvements will further protect any headphone or IEM plugged into the L30 from unintended damage, even in the most extreme of failure scenarios. All L30s that include these improvements can be identified by a serial number starting with “2012”.
As of Monday, January 11, all TOPPING L30s sold on Apos Audio will have a serial number beginning with “2012” or higher. This serial number denotes the new batch of units, in which more safety measures have been implemented. If you own a TOPPING L30 with a serial number beginning with “2011” or lower and are concerned about the operability of the unit, please feel free to reach out to our Support Team.


----------



## escalibur (Jan 19, 2021)

jestercow said:


> https://apos.audio/blogs/news/update-on-topping-l30-amp
> 
> January 14, 2021Apos Updates
> *Update on TOPPING L30 Amp*
> ...



2012 has DC fix only. ESD problem is fixed at the *third version* only. 2012 might not be the third version.

from the ASR:

*1. Topping L30 (serial number 2011 or lower)*
- Has the DC problem
- Has the ESD problem
- In this condition, in rare cases, your L30 can fail and damage your headphone as well.

*2. Topping L30 (serial number 2012 or higher)*
- Has an updated DC protection system
- Has the ESD problem
- In this condition, in rare cases, your L30 can fail, but your headphone will be protected.
*if your L30 fails and it is within the warranty period, Topping will replace it.

*3. [In the future] Topping L30 (serial number 20XX or higher)*
- Will have an updated DC protection system
- Will have an updated ESD protection system
- In this condition, your L30 will be very safe ...


----------



## jestercow

Thanks for the clarification on the S/N changes! According to CJ they will only be shipping out the 20XX version (with ESD fix). I got a little hasty with my copypasta and just didn't read it thoroughly enough. I just want my updated (safe) L30 back lol


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## BowWazoo (Jan 20, 2021)

Delete pls


----------



## Heyyoudvd

Are most people getting 2012****** replacements or are they waiting for the February update?

The vendor I bought from told me they’re shipping me a new unit, so I’m guessing that means it’s one of the current ones that fixes the DC issue but not the ESD issue.

I’m not sure whether to go with that or if I should ask to wait for the next revision.


----------



## cel4145

Heyyoudvd said:


> Are most people getting 2012****** replacements or are they waiting for the February update?
> 
> The vendor I bought from told me they’re shipping me a new unit, so I’m guessing that means it’s one of the current ones that fixes the DC issue but not the ESD issue.
> 
> I’m not sure whether to go with that or if I should ask to wait for the next revision.



I think you have to decide how prone you would be to shock it with ESD in the wintertime. 

You might also want to check if the warranty is on the original date of purchase, or the date you receive the replacement.


----------



## baskingshark

Heyyoudvd said:


> Are most people getting 2012****** replacements or are they waiting for the February update?
> 
> The vendor I bought from told me they’re shipping me a new unit, so I’m guessing that means it’s one of the current ones that fixes the DC issue but not the ESD issue.
> 
> I’m not sure whether to go with that or if I should ask to wait for the next revision.



If u don't get ESD much in your location (eg if your country is more humid), then u can take the risk to just get the DC fix. But I suppose if Topping can get an ESD fix in for their february batch, why not wait a month just to get the latest fixed L30?


----------



## SkyZippr

A dumb question regarding the HPA/PRE switch. Does it switch the output between headphone and RCA?
I want to connect both my headphone and speaker, and want to switch between them without having to disconnect the headphone every time.


----------



## Heyyoudvd

SkyZippr said:


> A dumb question regarding the HPA/PRE switch. Does it switch the output between headphone and RCA?
> I want to connect both my headphone and speaker, and want to switch between them without having to disconnect the headphone every time.



That’s exactly what it does. It’s great. I have my 6XX always plugged into the headphone jack and my powered PC speakers plugged into the RCA in the back, and it’s just a flick of a switch to go between them.


----------



## FYFL

Desperate times call for desperate measures. 








Won’t be using my pricier cans with this amp for sure. Moved to basement. Ground it and placed it near fire extinguisher.


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## Lalerfy (Jan 23, 2021)

Would the 5V "DC" that's used on something like the►iFi Zen-Can Amp
damage headphones the way the L30 does with it's 15V "AC" when this fault occurs.


----------



## FYFL

Lalerfy said:


> Would the 5V DC that's used on other Amps
> damage headphones the way the L30 does with it's 15V AC when the fault occurs.


I’m not an expert but probably not. What’s it,..... a portable?


----------



## Lalerfy

FYFL said:


> I’m not an expert but probably not. What’s it,..... a portable?


Something like the other desktop Amps►iFi Zen-Can that put out similar power but have "DC" 5V


----------



## FYFL

Lalerfy said:


> Something like the other desktop Amps►iFi Zen-Can that put out similar power but have "DC" 5V


As long as they have some protection build in. Never heard of iFi having this kind of problem but I really wouldn’t be the person to ask.
Shame that Topping put out a product that blows up cans with such a low distortion. Lmao


----------



## sennfan83261

FYFL said:


> As long as they have some protection build in. Never heard of iFi having this kind of problem but I really wouldn’t be the person to ask.
> Shame that Topping put out a product that blows up cans with such a low distortion. Lmao






lol


----------



## hawk01

i just held off online purchase of the topping L30 after digging deeper into this issue. otherwise the vendor would have sold me an amp form the defective lot. i sent him the topping message to which he replied the new revised unit shall be avail in 1-2wks.


----------



## kalijaga

Just received my L30 replacement via DHL..directly from China (bypassing my distributor). Tested and noticed it doesn't get hot as fast and and high as the previous one. overall impressive response by Topping, which I did not put much hope initially .... I am happy.


----------



## baskingshark

kalijaga said:


> Just received my L30 replacement via DHL..directly from China (bypassing my distributor). Tested and noticed it doesn't get hot as fast and and high as the previous one. overall impressive response by Topping, which I did not put much hope initially .... I am happy.



Congrats! I'm still waiting for my replacement. Is your serial number starting with 2012?


----------



## kalijaga

baskingshark said:


> Congrats! I'm still waiting for my replacement. Is your serial number starting with 2012?


Yes, 20126XXXXX. and yes, after leaving it on for some hours... it is still not hot (like the old one) .. maybe warmish... i wonder what have they changed?


----------



## MazeFrame

Lalerfy said:


> Would the 5V "DC" that's used on something like the►iFi Zen-Can Amp
> damage headphones the way the L30 does with it's 15V "AC" when this fault occurs.


Depends on the headphone.
Into 30 Ohm, you would see 150mA (= 0.8 W). That could cook the voice coil.
Into 300 Ohms a 10th of the current (and power), which is probably negligible.


----------



## baskingshark

I got my replacement L30 (serial number 2012) today, sent via DHL from HIFIGO and Topping.

No issues so far with one hour of usage, sounds quite similar to the older L30. I used to have a slight channel imbalance with my older L30 at low volumes, seems to be fixed in the new release.


----------



## estreeter

I voted with my wallet despite the warnings - the L30 is cheaper than both the Atom and the Heresy here in Oz. The reseller has assured me that their stock are 'brand new' from Topping, and given the impact CNY has on deliveries from sources outside Australia, I wasn't about to argue. Delivery times are a crapshoot here in the Top End, but 27 deg C and our sole active COVID case is a US Marine on deployment - on balance, it could be worse.


----------



## estreeter

(Android phone -> LDAC -> BTR5 -> L30 -> DT880-250)

6 hours in and I'm happy so far - about the only initial impression is that the word 'smooth' in other folks' posts is exactly what I'm hearing. Its a cool day here but the L30 is barely even warm to the touch - I doubt that I would have been so fortunate if I had plumbed for the Heresy. No question that a more powerful source would coax more output from the L30 but right now I just want to get to the point where it's just another benign electronic device in my bedroom.


----------



## estreeter

Rough estimate is now around the 50 hour mark - as a HPA and a pre into my little speaker amp - and I have zero complaints so I'll return to logging in every few months just to see where the goalposts are in this crazy hobby


----------



## lacedup

estreeter said:


> I voted with my wallet despite the warnings - the L30 is cheaper than both the Atom and the Heresy here in Oz. The reseller has assured me that their stock are 'brand new' from Topping, and given the impact CNY has on deliveries from sources outside Australia, I wasn't about to argue. Delivery times are a crapshoot here in the Top End, but 27 deg C and our sole active COVID case is a US Marine on deployment - on balance, it could be worse.


I paid $180 AUD from JDS for my Atom last year - how much did you pay for the L30? Am waiting for the blue one I think


----------



## estreeter

lacedup said:


> I paid $180 AUD from JDS for my Atom last year - how much did you pay for the L30? Am waiting for the blue one I think



https://tinyurl.com/2xrv48jb

219 AUD shipped seems steep but I'm happy - ordered Monday and had it by Friday (express shipping), well packed and I've had zero problems to date. By contrast, I'm still waiting for the geniuses at Amazon UK to ship a pair of headphones I ordered 2 weeks ago - I swore I'd never use them again after my last month-long wait but the price was too good to ignore. Going with the local retailer gives me someone I can contact if there is a problem with the amp and it was a no-brainer given that I ordered the amp while most of China was on holiday. FWIW, the ATA markup on Topping is a lot more reasonable than the AUD prices they slap on Schiit gear - their stance is that you're paying for an Australian warranty, so I'll leave it there. If I can give ATA and Minidisc a plug for those who cant get past the prices, both are first class when it comes to answering queries from potential customers re stock or whatever. Many overseas vendors I've dealt with take 48 hours+ to respond and that gets old very quickly.


----------



## lacedup

estreeter said:


> https://tinyurl.com/2xrv48jb
> 
> 219 AUD shipped seems steep but I'm happy - ordered Monday and had it by Friday (express shipping), well packed and I've had zero problems to date. By contrast, I'm still waiting for the geniuses at Amazon UK to ship a pair of headphones I ordered 2 weeks ago - I swore I'd never use them again after my last month-long wait but the price was too good to ignore. Going with the local retailer gives me someone I can contact if there is a problem with the amp and it was a no-brainer given that I ordered the amp while most of China was on holiday. FWIW, the ATA markup on Topping is a lot more reasonable than the AUD prices they slap on Schiit gear - their stance is that you're paying for an Australian warranty, so I'll leave it there. If I can give ATA and Minidisc a plug for those who cant get past the prices, both are first class when it comes to answering queries from potential customers re stock or whatever. Many overseas vendors I've dealt with take 48 hours+ to respond and that gets old very quickly.


Yeah the Schiit tax is insane I was looking at Lyr3 but ugh, I currently have an Atom amp/Topping D30 DAC but possibly may upgrade since I have some pretty high end headphones now.. (Focal Clear and Denon AH-D9200)


----------



## sajunky (Mar 10, 2021)

lacedup said:


> Yeah the Schiit tax is insane I was looking at Lyr3 but ugh, I currently have an Atom amp/Topping D30 DAC but possibly may upgrade since I have some pretty high end headphones now.. (Focal Clear and Denon AH-D9200)


True. Being outside US there are better options, also from China. I upgraded from D30 in emergency soon after receiving it to a $42 Nobsound 8x TDA1387 DAC/HPA. It is portable device, the amp is very basic, but RCA output is surprisingly competent.  It gives R2R type of sound, it is important for the music played on acoustic instruments to hear timbre and texture, as it gives a comfort of listening and true enjoyement.

Prices of R2R DACs start higher than Topping supermarket type products. Bifrost 2 is probably the lowest priced Schiit product I am talking about, it pairs well with Lyr3, but considering Australian condition I would rather climb up for Denafrips Ares II ($750) or Audio GD-R-1 ($889). The later one has I2S interface, it allows an important upgrade path when using PC as a source. My current gear is a Nobsound on the road and Audio GD R2R-11 on my desk driving HD600. For $350 you can't find better value DAC/HPA. When upgrading it would be probably R-28.


----------



## lacedup

sajunky said:


> True. Being outside US there are better options, also from China. I upgraded from D30 in emergency soon after receiving it to a $42 Nobsound 8x TDA1387 DAC/HPA. It is portable device, the amp is very basic, but RCA output is surprisingly competent.  It gives R2R type of sound, it is important for the music played on acoustic instruments to hear timbre and texture, as it gives a comfort of listening and true enjoyement.
> 
> Prices of R2R DACs start higher than Topping supermarket type products. Bifrost 2 is probably the lowest priced Schiit product I am talking about, it pairs well with Lyr3, but considering Australian condition I would rather climb up for Denafrips Ares II ($750) or Audio GD-R-1 ($889). The later one has I2S interface, it allows an important upgrade path when using PC as a source. My current gear is a Nobsound on the road and Audio GD R2R-11 on my desk driving HD600. For $350 you can't find better value DAC/HPA. When upgrading it would be probably R-28.


Yeah I was eyeing the 28, but also something like an ifi micro for on the go


----------



## Dobrescu George

I made a full viddy review about the L30  

Pretty much liked it, but my unit did have some hiss with IEMs. Not sure if this holds true for everyone (?)


----------



## sajunky

Poor quality control and it can blow your expensive heaphones. I wouldn't review such things even if someone pays for a job. Not on my headpphones.


----------



## dmac6419

lacedup said:


> Yeah I was eyeing the 28, but also something like an ifi micro for on





sajunky said:


> Poor quality control and it can blow your expensive heaphones. I wouldn't review such things even if someone pays for a job. Not on my headpphones.


That was fixed,you must not remember when schitt was frying schitt


----------



## sajunky

dmac6419 said:


> That was fixed,you must not remember when schitt was frying schitt


Explain, what was fixed?


----------



## Dobrescu George

sajunky said:


> Explain, what was fixed?



I reviewed it becuase as far as I got response from the company and everyone around, units with a new serial number have no issues. 

I also still have my unit up and running, and I did add a disclaimer in the viddy description too 

I was considering wehter I should post it or not, but just a heads-up, I filmed the video way before the first person ever had issues with their unit.


----------



## sajunky (Mar 13, 2021)

Dobrescu George said:


> I reviewed it becuase as far as I got response from the company and everyone around, units with a new serial number have no issues.
> 
> I also still have my unit up and running, and I did add a disclaimer in the viddy description too
> 
> I was considering wehter I should post it or not, but just a heads-up, I filmed the video way before the first person ever had issues with their unit.


Fair enough, thanks. I must add that a company claim of "no issues" is not acceptable. They should clearly state whether updated L30 have built-in ESD protection and DC output protection and how this protection is implemented.


----------



## Racheski

sajunky said:


> Fair enough, thanks. I must add that a company claim of "no issues", is not acceptable. They should clearly state whether updated L30 has built-in ESD protection and DC output protection and how this protection is implemented.


They did, it is on ASR.


----------



## sebadenied

jmwant said:


> How does it compare with the FiiO A5? I know these two are totally different things, but I'd love the luxury of Using the amp while im in bed.


Could you make the comparison? Thank you


----------



## Progressive J (Apr 14, 2021)

Hi guys, I ordered a Topping L30+D10s stack through AliExpress, which I was planning to use with the AKG K712 Pro that I plan to buy soon. I went with the D10s because I have no need of the extra features of the E30, thought it would be essentially the same and is 30€ cheaper, but apparently the E30 has better soundstage and can sound better with a 5V power supply. So now I am wondering if I screwed this up and what would be the best course of action. Keep the L30 while somehow getting rid of the D10s and search a E30 elsewhere? Add something else to improve this combo? Purchase different headphones?


----------



## Melting735

Had this little guy with e30 for a short while. The performance at this price is like wth. The combo was not too far away from my ares2 + elise


----------



## overhaze

Are these safe to buy now? Has the exploding headphone issue been fixed?


----------



## hottyson

overhaze said:


> Are these safe to buy now? Has the exploding headphone issue been fixed?


Topping is always a poor choice. Some might be lured thinking they are saving money at first but Topping are not well designed nor well built. Down the road when your Topping dies you will wish that you had bought a better brand. Why buy a Ford Pinto when you could get a Toyota?


----------



## overhaze

hottyson said:


> Topping is always a poor choice. Some might be lured thinking they are saving money at first but Topping are not well designed nor well built. Down the road when your Topping dies you will wish that you had bought a better brand. Why buy a Ford Pinto when you could get a Toyota?


So what are the alternatives here in Ireland where Schiit is too expensive to be viable?


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## Lalerfy (Apr 29, 2021)

overhaze said:


> So what are the alternatives here in Ireland where Schiit is too expensive to be viable?


This is a great sounding Amp, lush and warm. £149
https://Amazon.co.uk/dp/B08DD71B3N


----------



## Melting735

I think topping already fix the issue. I had my replaced unit. It sound really good at this price.


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## hottyson (Apr 29, 2021)

overhaze said:


> So what are the alternatives here in Ireland where Schiit is too expensive to be viable?


Depending on the headphone used, the other alternatives in this price range that I own are JDS Labs Atom, Monolith Liquid Spark, and Schiit Magni.

Otherwise the next large step up from there are used amplifiers from eBay like the Beyerdynamic A20 that can be had for $200 here in the states.

Or if you want tube amplification, and one of the best value purchases I have ever made, is the Darkvoice 336se at $200 new here in the states.


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## BlueScorpion33 (May 25, 2021)

Hi,
I've recently got Topping D30 DAC and L30 headphone amp.
The D30 is working fine and the L30 is also working.

However, I have noticed that the 6.35mm (1/4 Inch) jack port of my L30 has a slight give to it when inserting a headphone into the amp or if I push the headphone jack a bit.

What I mean is that the headphone port doesn't seem to be solidly attached to the case and is a bit springy or soft and the jack port goes in about 1mm inside when pushed and then comes back to normal position.

Here is a very short video of the headphone jack movement I have uploade to OneDrive:
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AipIT1N1Kpg_ixzgDOCWfS4LKJl9?e=YJMPKx

There is no disruption or noise on the audio when the jack is pushed but I am not sure of the jack pot is supposed to be like this.

So does anyone else’s 6.35mm (1/4 Inch) jack port do this on their L30 or should I ask for mine to be replaced?


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## malfario (Jun 3, 2021)

BlueScorpion33 said:


> Hi,
> I've recently got Topping D30 DAC and L30 headphone amp.
> The D30 is working fine and the L30 is also working.
> 
> ...



Hey, I own two L30 units and both have this "feature", I'd say it's normal.


----------



## BlueScorpion33

malfario said:


> Hey, I own two L30 units and both have this "feature", I'd say it's normal.


Yeah, people at another forum also mentioned thiers also the same.

Furthermore I had a real close look now at the jack port and port itself or the its housing is not moving.
The only thing that moves is the actual 6.35mm plug of the headphone.
Seems like the plug doesn't go all the way in and there is like a 0.5-0.7mm gap between the shiny ring of port and the plug's hilt (no sure what else to call it lol) so there is still a tiny bit more left of the plug that can be pushed inside which gets push out by the metal strip inside the port.
The same thing happens with the included 3.5mm to 6.35mm adapter plug.

So it doesn't look like the 6.35mm port itself is moving but looked like it was due to the shadow from the plug being moved in caused the shiny ring on the port to appear as if it was moving but only the plug itself it moving in a bit when pushed. 

It seems that the port is securely attached to the PCB and thus no defect I think.


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## chongky

hottyson said:


> Depending on the headphone used, the other alternatives in this price range that I own are JDS Labs Atom, Monolith Liquid Spark, and Schiit Magni.
> 
> Otherwise the next large step up from there are used amplifiers from eBay like the Beyerdynamic A20 that can be had for $200 here in the states.
> 
> Or if you want tube amplification, and one of the best value purchases I have ever made, is the Darkvoice 336se at $200 new here in the states.


Why recommend Schiit when they have a track record for frying headphones too?


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## hottyson (Jun 14, 2021)

Why?


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## hottyson

chongky said:


> Why recommend Schiit when they have a track record for frying headphones too?


You are referring to eleven years ago with NwAvGuy leading the way. Do you know about Schiit amplifiers frying headphones since then? Please share.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...robable-start-up.701900/page-52#post-10463052

To answer your question, I will give you three reasons.

1. Schiit has improved on their amplifiers.
The quality is pretty good for what you pay. If you change the knob on your Topping amplifier it removes the potentiometer from the board and breaks your amplifier.

2. Schiit has someone that you can communicate with if you have a problem.
Topping does not have anyone to speak with. Instead Topping only has someone on another forum that claims that he is only an intern when things go bad. And, then when they don't like what you say on said forum, they delete and censor your posts.
Here is Jude's take on censorship: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...preciation-thread.584763/page-11#post-8144761

3. Schiit also has a track record of taking care of the customers that had headphones fried.
I tried to get compensation for my headphones when Topping fried them with their poorly designed and poorly made ampliFire. It was a nightmare and the worst experience I have ever had with any product period. Topping is my least favorite brand.

As you can see, Topping is nowhere near what you get from Schiit. I have around forty or fifty headphone amplifiers right now and six of them are Schiit. They are of decent quality and were well worth every cent that I paid for them. I will never purchase anything Topping now that I have had to live the nightmare of dealing with them. I would instead recommend other brands such as Schiit, Ray Samuels, Headamp, Beyerdynamic, JDS Labs, Monoprice, Singxer, Little Dot, DarkVoice or pretty much anything else over Topping.


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## chongky (Jun 14, 2021)

Fair enough.

I can recommend JDS Atom though, it has really good customer service, in fact I'm listening to it right now. But Schiit products...  are not something I would recommend. Heard too many reports of headphones being fried, but to Schiit's credit they do reimburse the headphones if you can prove that.


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## hottyson (Jul 29, 2021)

chongky said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> I can recommend JDS Atom though, it has really good customer service, in fact I'm listening to it right now. But Schiit products... not something I would recommend.


THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THAT LINK! I had no idea that had transpired as I have been staying away from that forum after they censored all of my posts criticizing Topping.
.
I too had a problem with Schiit Heresy burning up a pair of cheap headphones early when the amplifier first came out but I wrote it off as a freak accident. I did not hear of anyone else having a problem with the Schiit Heresy. I contacted Schiit and Schiit said that they would look at it but I that I would have to pay for shipping. It did not seem worthwhile on a cheap $100 amplifier to pay $20 shipping. And, I bought it B-stock so they would not let me upgrade anyway. Plus, why would anyone send in an amplifier to get the same amp if it has a problem burning up headphones? So in the end I just forgot about the whole thing. I do appreciate that they at least offered to look at it.

*Update: Schiit HAS paid for my shipping the amplifier back to them and a refund IS on it’s way back to me. I take back all that I said about their customer service.*

When I shared a link from that same forum that criticized Topping here on Head-fi, it was deleted/censored. The reason given was that I am not allowed to post things about what happens in other forums. This is very convenient for Topping as they don't have to address issues with their customers by hiding behind this as they use that forum for dealing with their customers. This is a very shady underhanded way of dealing with customers. I am shocked by the way they get away with this.


----------



## sajunky

hottyson said:


> When I shared a link from that same forum that criticized Topping here on Head-fi, it was deleted/censored. The reason given was that I am not allowed to post things about what happens in other forums. This is very convenient for Topping as they don't have to address issues with their customers by hiding behind this as they use that forum for dealing with their customers. This is a very shady underhanded way of dealing with customers. I am shocked by the way they get away with this.


It was your mistake, so mods took it as an excuse. I didn't made such mistake, so my posts with technical details about A90 being defective were censored with explanation "no one else makes such claim".

Toping is a sponsor and mods are frequently in difficult situation, I do understand. Moderation is there, but civilised. On the other (strictly technical) forum, my arguments were understood clearly, so in result the entire thread titled like this: "Topping dual sealed SMPS for symmetric power good or wrong?" had been deleted without any notification. It is just a digression.

Coming back to a topic. You should understand what makes Topping amps fail. With such knowledge you can find out whether they are working on fixing a problem, or just trying to surpress a criticism. In this case, safety check up points are:

1. ESD protection of all inputs. Present or missing? If missing, then it is sensitive to a failure. The internal IC protection is insufficient, it must be supplemented with external devices. A failure can trigger what is described in #2.

2. DC protection of outputs. Present or missing? If missing, then a failure of one IC can damage your headphones. Some might argue: "nope, these opamps have individual output protection". This is true somehow, but in the case of individual opamps. In these designs (A90/L30) multiple amp chips are coupled together, individual chip protection do not work anymore. If you don't see external DC protection devices on the PCB, stay away, stay safe.


----------



## banda

Can anyone advise me on what I can do to reduce the risk of my L30 killing my headphones?


----------



## sajunky

banda said:


> Can anyone advise me on what I can do to reduce the risk of my L30 killing my headphones?


Never hot plug RCA cables. Power off your source device and your amp (L30/A90) before connecting or disconnecting cables, reducing volume is not enough. If you have lightning in your area, power it off (it is also valid for any audio equipment). If you have power outages in your area, Topping is a risk.


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## banda

sajunky said:


> Never hot plug RCA cables. Power off your source device and your amp (L30/A90) before connecting or disconnecting cables, reducing volume is not enough. If you have lightning in your area, power it off (it is also valid for any audio equipment). If you have power outages in your area, Topping is a risk.


Thanks! No other measures to be taken/anything else to be aware of?


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## cel4145

banda said:


> Can anyone advise me on what I can do to reduce the risk of my L30 killing my headphones?



What serial number is yours? If 2012 or higher, you have nothing to worry about. 

If your serial number is lower and you bought from an authorized reseller, they can exchange for you. Contact them.


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## banda

cel4145 said:


> What serial number is yours? If 2012 or higher, you have nothing to worry about.
> 
> If your serial number is lower and you bought from an authorized reseller, they can exchange for you. Contact them.


Mine is secondhand. That's why I'm here to ask for help.


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## FYFL

banda said:


> Can anyone advise me on what I can do to reduce the risk of my L30 killing my headphones?


Older L30’s (including my own) could be a problem and concern.   Basically, something as silly as static build-up/discharge could cause damage. In my case, I grounded L30’s enclosure to outlet’s ground terminal for some peace of mind. I could return it…… but it will stay here to remind me why I should stay clear from these “measurements overachievers”. Lol


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## sajunky (Jun 26, 2021)

cel4145 said:


> What serial number is yours? If 2012 or higher, you have nothing to worry about.


I don't know what they told you, but there is still no ESD /DC-out protection.
Lets say, it was very bad, but it is no good.


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## PowerCycles

Do you guys think Topping will be releasing a new reiteration of L30 anytime soon? Probably an L30s?


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## Mightygrey

PowerCycles said:


> Do you guys think Topping will be releasing a new reiteration of L30 anytime soon? Probably an L30s?


Probably not. The L30 does everything a budget, simple device needs to do (aside from the whole headphone-frying thing on early units).


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## cel4145

PowerCycles said:


> Do you guys think Topping will be releasing a new reiteration of L30 anytime soon? Probably an L30s?



What's there to improve? It is easily arguable to be noise and distortion-free within the range of human hearing. And it will drive 99% of headphones. And people looking to drive one of those few rare headphones it won't are probably not looking for a device in this budget range.


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## estreeter

I doubt that there will be a refresh, but I'm sure ShenzhenAudio will keep us in the loop. Mine is still working perfectly, and that's all I ask of it - I've been down the rabbit hole too many times with incremental upgrades that have been hyped to death on HF and elsewhere.


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## GeekySimar

Did someone compare Topping L30 and JDS Lab Amp+. I am planning to buy a one. In a fix between these two. Can someone help me out?


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## john2000

PowerCycles said:


> Do you guys think Topping will be releasing a new reiteration of L30 anytime soon? Probably an L30s?


Doubt it


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## hottyson

GeekySimar said:


> Did someone compare Topping L30 and JDS Lab Amp+. I am planning to buy a one. In a fix between these two. Can someone help me out?


I have owned the JDS Labs Atom and the Topping L30. I now own two JDS Labs Atom amplifiers because it is well made. I returned the Topping because I don't like to keep garbage.

JDS Labs Atom characteristics that still apply to the plus.
You can upgrade the knob.
It sounds clean and powerful.
JDS Labs is an honest company and a pleasure to communicate with.
The Atom has two switchable inputs.

Topping L30 
If you upgrade the knob, you have likely destroyed the circuit board.
It makes loud popping noises as your headphone driver burns up.
The company is the worst to deal with and is deceitful.
Topping makes garbage.

I won't call others dumb that purchase ampliFires made by Topping. 
At least not in front of them. 
I will wait until they leave the room.


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## dmac6419

hottyson said:


> I have owned the JDS Labs Atom and the Topping L30. I now own two JDS Labs Atom amplifiers because it is well made. I returned the Topping because I don't like to keep garbage.
> 
> JDS Labs Atom characteristics that still apply to the plus.
> You can upgrade the knob.
> ...


You make no sense,


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## dmac6419

hottyson said:


> You are referring to eleven years ago with NwAvGuy leading the way. Do you know about Schiit amplifiers frying headphones since then? Please share.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...robable-start-up.701900/page-52#post-10463052
> 
> To answer your question, I will give you three reasons.
> ...


They stilled fried them,1 year 10 years make no difference, you make no sense, now if you have a preference  than cool.


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## estreeter

My Topping has served me flawlessly in the6 orso months that I've owned it but the original Atom was also a Giant killer fwir - flip a coin


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## sajunky

hottyson said:


> Topping L30
> If you upgrade the knob, you have likely destroyed the circuit board.
> It makes loud popping noises as your headphone driver burns up.
> The company is the worst to deal with and is deceitful.
> Topping makes garbage.


Deceitful company, true. Had my own experience with a DAC.
As for a knob, it was assembled using a vice or hammer. A pot bearing is already damaged during the assembly, it is why it has a free play. This is a comment from the hourse mouth on the ASR.


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## harry501501

Is this still a competitive priced AMP for £150? Pairing with smsl Sanskrit 10th mk2. Don't need balanced mode


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## baskingshark

harry501501 said:


> Is this still a competitive priced AMP for £150? Pairing with smsl Sanskrit 10th mk2. Don't need balanced mode



It is an analytical amp which is quite neutral. Measurements are stellar, but measurements are of course not everything. I like the L30 personally, as it is good for assessing gear without coloring the music, but there are definitely more "musical" amps out there.

It has 3 gain switches so it is suitable for highly sensitive multi BA IEMs all the way to power hungry planars. The earlier batches had a non grounded amp where ESD could potentially damage connected headphones/IEMs, but they have fixed it since the january 2021 batches.


----------



## escalibur

harry501501 said:


> Is this still a competitive priced AMP for £150? Pairing with smsl Sanskrit 10th mk2. Don't need balanced mode


Yes.


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## sajunky

baskingshark said:


> The earlier batches had a non grounded amp where ESD could potentially damage connected headphones/IEMs, but they have fixed it since the january 2021 batches.


There is still no ESD protection and output DC protection (inside TPA chip) can be defeated. It means that it can still blew your expensive HP's. Extremely low input impedance do not replace ESD protection devices and give interconnectivity problems.


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## hottyson

Yeah, don't be fooled by Topping. This and their other amplifires are garbage. Spend a little more and get an amp brand that doesn't suck. I recommend RebelAmp if you can afford it $500.


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## harry501501 (Sep 9, 2021)

In


sajunky said:


> There is still no ESD protection and output DC protection (inside TPA chip) can be defeated. It means that it can still blew your expensive HP's. Extremely low input impedance do not replace ESD protection devices and give interconnectivity problems.


Interesting. I thought the fault had been fixed for serial numbers from 2011 down? It's what put me off before tbh. I've bought a set of akg k701 which I got cheap on Amazon warehouse as I've been wanting to try them for years... Turns out I love them. I've been using a Music Fidelity AMP which drives them easily but it's a bit too coloured. I was after something more neutral.

I've set £150 as budget.

I was tempted to get the iFi Audio Zen Can too


----------



## sajunky

harry501501 said:


> Interesting. I thought the fault had been fixed for serial numbers from 2011 down? It's what put me off before tbh.


This is what they say. Good you found a different amp.


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## harry501501

sajunky said:


> This is what they say. Good you found a different amp.


So stay clear of it then!!!

I haven't found a different amp yet. That's why I'm asking bout it.


----------



## bifcake

I have the L30 and it works really well.  It's clear, neutral and it drives my 580s with aplomb.  Whatever problems there were with the first batches, I haven't experienced them and I've had mine for almost a year.


----------



## cel4145

harry501501 said:


> In
> 
> Interesting. I thought the fault had been fixed for serial numbers from 2011 down? It's what put me off before tbh. I've bought a set of akg k701 which I got cheap on Amazon warehouse as I've been wanting to try them for years... Turns out I love them. I've been using a Music Fidelity AMP which drives them easily but it's a bit too coloured. I was after something more neutral.
> 
> ...


The problem has been fixed.

But there are some people on this form who seem to have a personal grudge against Topping


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## Themilkman46290

Trying to choose between the L30 and the Magni 3 heresy, in my area they both cost about 140-150 new and about 120 used so I will probably end up getting it new.

Have the problems with the L30 been fixed?
How is the sound between them?
 I have some modded m565c and he4xx
Planning on getting a pair of hd600 and k701 in the next year or 2 and for now I plan on running it off my ibasso or zishan DAP but in the near future I will get a d10s, e30 or modi depending on wich has better sound and lower price locally

Any links about topping stating they have fixed it would be much appreciated, thanks in advance

According to the info I have found when I thought about getting some schiit gear a couple years ago, they also have some issues but seem to have addressed them but topping seems to measure a wee bit better


----------



## hottyson (Sep 20, 2021)

cel4145 said:


> But there are some people on this form who seem to have a personal grudge against Topping


I am one such person that has a personal grudge against Topping. Topping is garbage. They press fit their knobs onto the potentiometer thereby damaging many of them. That is why so many complain of play in the volume knobs. This is also why when they remove the knob they often have a broken amplifier. I keep repeating all of these stories yet for some reason people are still saying to trust Topping. What is wrong with people? Don't they read the forums and all of the poor design choices and poor quality built into Topping. Stay far away from Topping.



Themilkman46290 said:


> Trying to choose between the L30 and the Magni 3 heresy,



I currently own over fifty headphone amplifiers. *The only two headphone amplifiers that have ever burned my headphones were the the Topping L30 and the Schiit Magni 3 Heresy*. If you are truly interested in safety, why would you go with either one of these?

However, while Topping gave me nothing but lies and tried to cheat me out of money and waste my time, Schiit actually listened to me. Schiit refunded my money for my Schiit Magni Heresy. Schiit paid for shipping back the Heresy. Schiit offered to pay for my burnt headphones. So, now seven of my headphone amplifiers are Schiit, because it is a quality product my experience with them was golden. The only other brand that I own more headphone amplifiers of are Little Dot but that is because I slowly collected them for the last fifteen years. The seven Schiit headphone amplifiers were all purchased in the last two years.

So, go with the Schiit ieMagni model if you want safety. It has the built in protection that you desire. Or, go with the JDS Labs Atom. I own two of the Atoms and they are linear if that is your thing. (linear is not my thing) Or, if you have Beyerdynamic headphones, go with the Monoprice Liquid Spark. These three options that I suggest are all $100 amps just like the two that you were considering and would likely be much safer if you are wanting to avoid headphone fire.


----------



## bifcake

Themilkman46290 said:


> Trying to choose between the L30 and the Magni 3 heresy, in my area they both cost about 140-150 new and about 120 used so I will probably end up getting it new.
> 
> Have the problems with the L30 been fixed?
> How is the sound between them?
> ...


The problem with the L30 has been fixed.  I haven't had any problems with the pot or the volume knob.  I also didn't have a problem with Topping's support.  I contacted them about the amp because its serial number was within the batch that had the problem.  Even though I never had a problem, Topping told me to that they worked with the sellers, so that I could contact the seller and have the amp exchanged and/or fixed.  I contacted the seller and he was aware of the issues and offered an exchange.  So, I've never had any of the problems described by others.

I haven't heard Schiit Heresy, but I imagine that the Heresy and the L30 sound pretty much the same.  If there are any differences, I think they would be minor.


----------



## AJCxZ0

Modified Thieaudio Phantom (and BLON BL-30),
Monoprice Monolith cable for the Phantom,
Topping L30 with gain at -9 dB and volume at 12:00,
Jelly Tang 3' RCA Cable (a matching fabric wrapped double-Y cable for $8.99),
Topping E30 in dAC mode,
USB A to B male cable,
PC running Fedora sending 192 kHz 24 bit (for fun) with PipeWrire through EasyEffects using Calf Studios Bass Enhancer and Jmeier crossfeed plugins.






It sounds awesome and looks good, too. The red finish of the Toppings is a metallic crimson which doesn't show up well in most photos but you can see contrasted here with the plain red plastic of the PC case even under warm artificial light.
The headphone stands are ROCCAT Modulok which I picked up from NewEgg for $25.43 and the deep, angled, PU leather with super-soft velour pads are NULLKEAI Replacement Thicken Earpads For Monolith M1060 Headphones Earmuff Cover Cushion Cups, three pairs of which were delivered from China for $25.06.


----------



## MetaLchesH

Hello friends. I am currently using SMSL SP200. While it performs great for power-hungry headphones, the SP200 is unfortunately not very compatible with IEMs. I'm looking for an amp for IEMs that costs 150 Euros or less. Would you still recommend L30 in 2022?


----------



## baskingshark

MetaLchesH said:


> Hello friends. I am currently using SMSL SP200. While it performs great for power-hungry headphones, the SP200 is unfortunately not very compatible with IEMs. I'm looking for an amp for IEMs that costs 150 Euros or less. Would you still recommend L30 in 2022?



The L30 measures very well, but measurements aren't everything of course.

It is quite analytical and sterile and cold, so it doesn't really colour the music much. It has 3 gain settings so it is quite suited for high sensitivity IEMs all the way to more power hungry transducers. Previous batches had an electostatic discharge issue that may blow up connected gear, but it seems to have been fixed with later iterations. 

For 150 euros, I would recommend the Schiit Asgard 3 though. It also has gain settings and is a bit warmer than the L30, but it sounds more musical and less sterile.


----------



## Josz27

baskingshark said:


> The L30 measures very well, but measurements aren't everything of course.
> 
> It is quite analytical and sterile and cold, so it doesn't really colour the music much. It has 3 gain settings so it is quite suited for high sensitivity IEMs all the way to more power hungry transducers. Previous batches had an electostatic discharge issue that may blow up connected gear, but it seems to have been fixed with later iterations.
> 
> For 150 euros, I would recommend the Schiit Asgard 3 though. It also has gain settings and is a bit warmer than the L30, but it sounds more musical and less sterile.


I agree with this, I have A3 and had l30 and I think A3 is a much better sounding amp.
Right now I have burson 3XP and I think A3 is a extremely good value


----------



## MetaLchesH

baskingshark said:


> The L30 measures very well, but measurements aren't everything of course.
> 
> It is quite analytical and sterile and cold, so it doesn't really colour the music much. It has 3 gain settings so it is quite suited for high sensitivity IEMs all the way to more power hungry transducers. Previous batches had an electostatic discharge issue that may blow up connected gear, but it seems to have been fixed with later iterations.
> 
> For 150 euros, I would recommend the Schiit Asgard 3 though. It also has gain settings and is a bit warmer than the L30, but it sounds more musical and less sterile.


Thank you very much for your reply. I'm not as good with amps as you. I've only used JDS Atom before. I am currently using SP200. When buying an amp, I usually look at the measurements and get it. I prefer a flat/natural sound. I often listen to genres such as Melodic Death Metal, Thrash Metal, Technical/Brutal Death Metal, Deathcore, Metalcore. 70's/80's Rock etc.

The problem with the L30 seems to have been resolved in later productions. The store on Aliexpress promised to send me new stock.

Unfortunately it seems impossible for me to get Schiit Asgard 3. Because the totalitarian government in our country forbade us to import products over 150 Euros. The tax-free price of this amp is currently $250. We also pay 50% customs duty for products under 150 Euros.

In this case, I have to look at amps of 150 Euros and below.

If you have any suggestions other than Schiit Asgard 3, I'd be happy to hear.


----------

