# Cayin C9: Dual Nutube, Fully Balanced Class A/AB Portable HeadAmp



## Andykong (Jun 1, 2021)

*Cayin C9: TOTL Portable Headphone Amplifier*

Cayin was founded in 1993 and is one of the largest audio tube amplifier development and manufacturing facilities in the world.  We have developed over 400 products to date, ranging from CD players to speakers, all of which provide the same high-quality benchmark, but our amplifiers have been particularly well-received within the audio community.  That's why when we venture into Personal Audio back in 2013, we started with C5, a portable headphone amplifier, because amplifier is always our purest achievement.

The N8 DAP marked our milestone in Personal Audio and laid down the foundation for a flagship portable headphone amplifier.  The 2018  N8 was Cayin’s first cost-no-objective product in Personal Audio, but that does not mean we can ignore the scientific (physic and electronic engineering) constraints, so by the end of the N8 R&D, we pondered: what if we can find a way to relax the physical constraints?  What if when we have more space, more battery power, more room for heat dispersion, …., we know we need to apply the law of subtraction and take away some features in order to stay focused.  There were several ideas on the table: C8, C8DAC, ….etc, eventually we started off with C8 and today we delivered the C9.

As the model number has implied, C9 is the top model in Cayin product lineup.  When we develop N8, we decided to use “8” because that is a lucky number to Chinese and we also visualized that there might be technology advancement to DAP down the road.  For C9, we didn’t need to reserve that leeway because we know the analogue engineering inside out, it’s very mature and as far as Cayin’s concern, this is our ultimate.

The C9 will be available by  *20 January 2021* and the suggested retail price is *US$1999*.  Price and date might vary because of logistic and tax consideration.  Please consult your Cayin dealer for local availability and price.






*Highlights of Cayin C9 Portable Headphone Amplifier*

*1.* * Choice of Timber:* select between Vacuum Tube and Solid State timber on the faceplate.  This is no doubt the most attractive, most discussed, and most sought after feature of C9.

There are several portable tube headphone amplifier in the market, most of them are low power and with limited portability (microphonic effect from shock and vibration). C9 is a truly portable headphone amplifier, you can put it your backpack or hold it in your hand and walking around while listen to it.
C9 is designed around the KORG Nutube.  This is a new generation vacuum tube developed by KORG in Japan.  It is a Direct Heated Triode (DHT) but KORG replaced the traditional filament by LED technologies.  It offers some advantaged that makes it a very good candidate for portable audio applications (flat form factor, low power drain, generated very little heat, …), but it maintain the microphonic problem of DHT vacuum tube, so the Nutube was not widely adopted in portable application.
Cayin N8 DAP is the first successful implementation of the Nutube in portable music player.  We have developed a custom silicon housing and a spring-loaded suspension system to resolve the vibration, shock and impact, C9 has incurred the technologies from N8 (with modification).  On the other hand, Cayin N8 used only one piece of Nutube so you can only listen to the Nutube with 3.5mm single-ended headphone, this is an inevitable limitation of N8 given we need to operate it as a DAP, but  C9 has use a pair of Nutube so the Timber selection function is available to both single-end and balanced circuit, making C9 the first fully balanced portable tube headphone amplifier, to the best of our knowledge.
We didn’t overlook the important of Solid State option.  We designed a discrete audio circuit around two matched pair Toshiba 2SK209 JFET as the alternative to Nutube in the Timber Circuit.










*2.    State-of-the-Art analogue amplification: * C9 is probably the most sophisticated portable headphone amplifier for both earphones and headphones in the market.  Cayin firmly believe that when the amplifier excels in control and equipped with appropriate volume management, there is no such thing as over-powered.  Even IEMs will perform at a different level when we have ample power.   Unfortunately, from what we observed, most, if not all, high-end headphone amplifiers are designed with full size headphone in mind, portable amplifiers are mostly DAC/Amp with emphasis on the digital audio technologies.  Given the rapid development of high-end IEMs in recent years, Cayin believes there is a market for ultimate portable headphone amplifier that can bring out the best of these high-end IEMs, especially when they are equipped with demanding dynamic, planar magnetic and/or EST drivers, and yet versatile enough to cover a lot of full-size headphones in portable scenarios.

One of the very few fully Balanced portable headphone amplifier in the market
Dual Amplification Operation (DAO): allow users to switch between Pure Class A and Class AB
In-house developed Amplification circuit with discrete components, not IC or Op-Amp based
Selectable High/Low gain that is widely applicable to both input modes (LINE and PRE) and all amplification operation (Class A or Class AB), offer extra 6dB headroom when needed and enhance paring with different earphones and headphones.
High-precision and highly linear 130 steps volume control system that composes of a 4-channels ALPS potentiometer with a pair of MUSES72320  low noise, low distortion resistance ladder based stereo electronic volume.
High Power portable headphone amplifier (4,100mW to 2,600mW per channel at 16-32 Ohm loading, and same rating for both Class A or Class AB)
Special attention to make sure C9 can work with most, if not all, IEMs in the market satisfactory.  Design a premium high power amplifier requires engineering and experience, but is attainable in general, make it enjoyable with both IEM and headphones are way more challenging.








*3.    Dual input mode:* on top of regular LINE input mode, C9 can also operate in PRE-amp input mode (or known as pure power amplifier mode), with volume control disabled and all stages operate at full capacity.
•    When operate in LINE input mode, which we presume will be the primary input mode of C9, it will receive audio signal from the line level output of DAP, DAC, or from any reliable audio source.
•    The PRE-amp input mode is designed to work with variable level inputs (e.g PRE-amp or DAC with variable-level line out).
•    Alternatively, if you have a DAP with high quality low distortion phone out but no line out, you can use the phone out as PRE-amp output.  Switching between Line input and PRE-amp input is an unique feature, the first of its kind to the best of our knowledge.

*4.    Versatile input and output options:*  C9 supports 3.5mm single-ended and 4.4mm balanced for both input and output, the amplifier will also optimize balanced inputs to single-ended headphones, and from single-end input to balanced headphones.  The following interconnects are bundled in the C9 package:

Single-ended Portable Interconnect CS-35C35 (3.5mm to 3.5mm)
Balanced Portable Interconnect CS-44C44 (4.4mm to 4.4mm with GND)







*5.    Replaceable battery:* the removable battery module houses 4 x Sony US18650VTC6 (3000mAh 3.7V) lithium batteries.  You can charge the 18650 batteries while the battery module is attached to C9 or after you detached it from the amplifier.   The battery module supports standard, PD and QC3.0 battery charging through USB-C connector.

Users can acquire and replace the batteries conveniently to extend the battery duration when needed.
User can acquire extra set of battery module.
In case the original battery are run down after extensive used, user can replace the battery conveniently, making sure the C9 can serve a very long time without worrying the 500 charge cycle of lithium battery.
Changing to different make and specification of 18650 battery might  introduce small changes to the sound signature, audiophile can enjoy battery rolling as an additional tweak to their system.














*FAQ and Resources*

Charging and Protection Circuit
Burn in Setting
Gain Control, Volume Control and Input Sensitivity
Dual input mode: LINE input vs PRE-amp input
Powerful amplifier for sensitive IEM
Further explanation of C9 Protection Circuit
Input Sensitivity Explained

C9 Power Supply and Quick Charge Module


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## seanwee

Andykong said:


> Cayin has displayed a new portable headphone amplifier at an online new product showcase today.  The highlight features are as follows:
> 
> Choice of Vacuum Tube and Solid State Timbre
> DAO: Dual Amp. Operation Mode, enable instantly switch between Class A and Class AB
> ...


Is hoping for a 500-750 dollar price tag too much? 

The whole thing looks good but I feel like having square cutouts for the nutubes would have been more aesthetically fitting. 

Still, if it sounds good I wouldn't care


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## ahossam

This got me excited!


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## seamon

Not gonna lie. I am extremely hype!!!

I was severely disappointed by the Woo Audio WA11 and personally think it sounds like trash. Currently using a Oriolus BA300s mkii + BA20. I am hoping this would be better than my current setup.

Any hint of approximately how powerful it will be?


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## ChrisLN

Very exciting! Is it going to be powerful enough for those power hungry headphones?


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## ahossam

seamon said:


> Not gonna lie. I am extremely hype!!!
> 
> I was severely disappointed by the Woo Audio WA11 and personally think it sounds like trash. Currently using a Oriolus BA300s mkii + BA20. I am hoping this would be better than my current setup.
> 
> Any hint of approximately how powerful it will be?



Whoa! I was so close to get WA11 but change my mind getting DAP instead. Just curious why you so disappointed with WA11? What headphones you pair with it?


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## TheHighlander

Looks amazing.


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## audionewbi

Thank you Cayin audio.


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## seamon (Sep 24, 2020)

ahossam said:


> Whoa! I was so close to get WA11 but change my mind getting DAP instead. Just curious why you so disappointed with WA11? What headphones you pair with it?


My thoughts on the WA11 + Diana V2 pairing.

Basically it's not a transparent amp. It introduces low frequency distortions in the signal in a way that sounds bad.

I have an actual portable tube amp - Oriolus BA300s mkii and the way it distorts the midrange actually sounds good whereas WA11 distortions are louder/more audible and sounds bad.

They were probably trying to emulate tube sound in a SS amp and it ended up sounding like trash.


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## davidmolliere

Exciting! Sub’ed!


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## bluestorm1992

Count me in! This is soooo cool. Can’t wait for it to be released!


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## Barndoor

Andykong said:


> 4x18650 battery slot



Interesting battery choice.


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## ahossam

seamon said:


> My thoughts on the WA11 + Diana V2 pairing.
> 
> Basically it's not a transparent amp. It introduces low frequency distortions in the signal in a way that sounds bad.
> 
> ...



WA11 & Diana V2 was on my list too, but eventually I went to get DX200 MAX & Noble Sultan, happy that I did it. Anyway this C9 looks interesting for someone looking portable amps with tube sound, like me.


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## audionewbi

C9 is what I need for HM1000 and P6, I cannot wait to learn more about C9.


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## twister6

Barndoor said:


> Interesting battery choice.



And I assume probably replaceable too?


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## Nostoi

Never really seen tubes carries out successfully in a portable amp format other than the Fostex HP-V1, but this looks intriguing. Personally, I think the design is quite attractive. 

Eager to know the power output....


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## audionewbi

twister6 said:


> And I assume probably replaceable too?


Yes, the bottom part comes off, it contains a container for 4 of the batteries.


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## seamon

twister6 said:


> And I assume probably replaceable too?


The Abyss guys said that people like to roll 18650 batteries. Some of them have better SQ.



Nostoi said:


> Never really seen tubes carries out successfully in a portable amp format other than the Fostex HP-V1, but this looks intriguing. Personally, I think the design is quite attractive.
> 
> Eager to know the power output....


Check out Oriolus BA300s. Portable Tube amp.
I am using it as a Preamp in my setup.


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## Nostoi

seamon said:


> The Abyss guys said that people like to roll 18650 batteries. Some of them have better SQ.
> 
> 
> Check out Oriolus BA300s. Portable Tube amp.
> I am using it as a Preamp in my setup.


I had the BA300s and sold it (along with the ALO CV5). It was pretty nice and paired well with my WM1A, but I somehow didn't feel terribly attached to it. The idea of a fully balanced portable tube amp, however, is a great one and I really hope Cayin can pull it off.


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## Andykong (Sep 25, 2020)

Nostoi said:


> Never really seen tubes carries out successfully in a portable amp format other than the Fostex HP-V1, but this looks intriguing. Personally, I think the design is quite attractive.
> 
> Eager to know the power output....



Cayin has used vacuum tube in DAP, which IMHO is more demanding then portable amp application.

The C9 use KORG Nutube 6P1, a dual-channel Triode vacuum tube from Japan, this is a very different form factor from traditional vacuum tube and they use LED to replacement the filament in the tube, makes it more robust against shock and vibration, but the microphonic problem remain unchanged.   We have used this vacuum tube in our *N8 DAP* with very good result, check it out if you run into a N8 in a store or CanJam event.  We have designed a Spring-loaded Suspension System to eliminate the microphonic effect of the KORG Nutube 6P1 so that it can be used for portable application, and we have solved another dozen of technical problems before we can deliver a reference level implementation.

Our spring-loaded Suspension installation device to enable Nutube in portable application are further explained in *HERE* and *HERE*.

We have also installed a pair of JAN6418 into our N3Pro DAP, we can't eliminate the ringing and microphonic effect completely, but we can manage to make it work for typical on-the-go scenario such as.  You can check out the vacuum tube implementation of N3Pro *HERE*.


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## Andykong (Sep 25, 2020)

ChrisLN said:


> Very exciting! Is it going to be powerful enough for those power hungry headphones?



If power hungry headphones includes HiFiman HE6, Susvara, AB1266 Phi, AKG K1000, Audeze LCD4, ... sorry, we are not powerful enough for these. 

IEMs remain as the primary target of C9 portable headphone amp.


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## Nostoi

Andykong said:


> If power hungry headphones includes HiFiman HE6, Susvara, AB1266 Phi, AKG K1000, Audeze LCD4, ... sorry, we are not powerful enough for these.


What about something like a Beyer DT770 600ohm (which I find thrives on tubes).


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## Andykong

Nostoi said:


> What about something like a Beyer DT770 600ohm (which I find thrives on tubes).



In my personal experience, no portable amp can handle 600ohm headphones SATISFACTORY.  C9 probably is one of the better options, but the voltage swing of 600 ohm headphones are far from feasibly to battery driven amplifier.


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## seamon

Andykong said:


> If power hungry headphones includes HiFiman HE6, Susvara, AB1266 Phi, AKG K1000, Audeze LCD4, ... sorry, we are not powerful enough for these.
> 
> IEMs remain as the primary target of C9 portable headphone amp.


Abyss Diana V2?
42 ohms and 91dB/mW


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## Deferenz

Andykong said:


> IEMs remain as the primary target of C9 portable headphone amp.


I am new to this, but if the C9 is aimed at IEMs then how does that differ to just using IEMs out of the N8, N6ii or N3 Pro?


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## seamon

Deferenz said:


> I am new to this, but if the C9 is aimed at IEMs then how does that differ to just using IEMs out of the N8, N6ii or N3 Pro?


You get the added inconvenience of carrying a brick with you. Makes you look like a true audiophile, not like those posers with DAPs.


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## jmills8

Nostoi said:


> I had the BA300s and sold it (along with the ALO CV5). It was pretty nice and paired well with my WM1A, but I somehow didn't feel terribly attached to it. The idea of a fully balanced portable tube amp, however, is a great one and I really hope Cayin can pull it off.


This should easily be much better than the ALO and BA300.


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## Andykong

seamon said:


> Abyss Diana V2?
> 42 ohms and 91dB/mW



Should works alright with the exception of really demanding music.


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## Andykong (Sep 25, 2020)

Deferenz said:


> I am new to this, but if the C9 is aimed at IEMs then how does that differ to just using IEMs out of the N8, N6ii or N3 Pro?



if you heard the C9 and prefer the N3Pro, N6ii or N8, then yes, you are right.

Unfortunately, there is a long wait before anyone can hear the C9 in action, so this will remain a myrth for a while


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## twister6

Deferenz said:


> I am new to this, but if the C9 is aimed at IEMs then how does that differ to just using IEMs out of the N8, N6ii or N3 Pro?



It's another option to color the sound with a different tonality.  Amplifiers don't have to be used just to boost the output.  Especially when you have tubes involved, they could color the sound, add texture, give more analog tonality, and improve the overall pair up synergy of the source with your IEMs.


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## seamon

twister6 said:


> It's another option to color the sound with a different tonality.  Amplifiers don't have to be used just to boost the output.  Especially when you have tubes involved, they could color the sound, add texture, give more analog tonality, and improve the overall pair up synergy of the source with your IEMs.


Basically the color/texture/quality of the C9 sound would have to extraordinarily good to warrant carrying it over a TOTL DAP imo or maybe the Value for Money aspect of it. I still think this should have been for transportable headphones rigs.


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## Facta (Sep 26, 2020)

Cayin or cayin't isn't the question at Cayin anymore. C9 looks solid.


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## Jeffyue

Andykong said:


> Cayin has used vacuum tube in DAP, which IMHO is more demanding then portable amp application.
> 
> The C9 use KORG Nutube 6P1, a dual-channel Triode vacuum tube from Japan, this is a very different form factor from traditional vacuum tube and they use LED to replacement the filament in the tube, makes it more robust against shock and vibration, but the microphonic problem remain unchanged.   We have used this vacuum tube in our *N8 DAP* with very good result, check it out if you run into a N8 in a store or CanJam event.  We have designed a Spring-loaded Suspension System to eliminate the microphonic effect of the KORG Nutube 6P1 so that it can be used for portable application, and we have solved another dozen of technical problems before we can deliver a reference level implementation.
> 
> ...



Given C9 will use the same tube as N8, can we say the sound signature would be similar to that of N8 too?


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## 1TrickPony

.


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## davidmolliere

Deferenz said:


> I am new to this, but if the C9 is aimed at IEMs then how does that differ to just using IEMs out of the N8, N6ii or N3 Pro?



Also it opens Cayin sound to people owning other DAPs and don't want / can't afford N8... Having owned N6ii with E01 Class A/AB and tried N8 for several days, I see the C9 as an interesting combination of both A/AB amplification and Nutubes. I am betting on a very sweet sounding amp with the C9


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## Titienne

Very interested in this. Will subscribe for updates!


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## Facta (Sep 26, 2020)

davidmolliere said:


> Also it opens Cayin sound to people owning other DAPs and don't want / can't afford N8... Having owned N6ii with E01 Class A/AB and tried N8 for several days, I see the C9 as an interesting combination of both A/AB amplification and Nutubes. I am betting on a very sweet sounding amp with the C9




The way Cayin is doling out oodles of output power on its new devices, I won't be surprised if one could use C9 for even desktop amplification needs associated with full-size dynamic headphones of >250ohm. I just hope tube rolling would be made possible. I sure would love to know if this looks a promising enough alternative to Bottlehead Crack +Speedball especially for desktop use with Sennheiser HD6XX or Clear Professional. I never tried Bottlehead but heard it is not good for low impedance cans that might see bass getting rolled off.


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## seamon

Facta said:


> The way Cayin is doling out oodles of output power on its new devices, I won't be surprised if one could use C9 for even desktop amplification needs associated with full-size dynamic headphones of >250ohm. I just hope tube rolling would be made possible. I sure would love to know if this looks a promising enough alternative to Bottlehead Crack +Speedball especially for desktop use with Sennheiser HD6XX or Clear Professional. I never tried Bottlehead but heard it is not good for low impedance cans that might see bass getting rolled off.


I don't think anybody but Korg makes those NuTubes.


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## seanwee

davidmolliere said:


> Also it opens Cayin sound to people owning other DAPs and don't want / can't afford N8... Having owned N6ii with E01 Class A/AB and tried N8 for several days, I see the C9 as an interesting combination of both A/AB amplification and Nutubes. I am betting on a very sweet sounding amp with the C9


I just want the addictive sound and massive soundstage of the N8 lol.

If it beats the N8 with its balanced implementation then even better.


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## sensenonno

price??


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## seamon

sensenonno said:


> price??


Trust me, we all want to know this


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## musicinmymind

Facta said:


> The way Cayin is doling out oodles of output power on its new devices, I won't be surprised if one could use C9 for even desktop amplification needs associated with full-size dynamic headphones of >250ohm. I just hope tube rolling would be made possible. I sure would love to know if this looks a promising enough alternative to Bottlehead Crack +Speedball especially for desktop use with* Sennheiser HD6XX* or Clear Professional. I never tried Bottlehead but heard it is not good for low impedance cans that might see bass getting rolled off.



Target is only IEM, may not be powerful enough for >250ohm


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## andersos (Sep 27, 2020)




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## Giru

Give us a good DAC to stack this with and you can take my money right now😅. 
Can't wait. Subbed.


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## seamon

Giru said:


> Give us a good DAC to stack this with and you can take my money right now😅.
> Can't wait. Subbed.


Probably Cayin N8's Line Out


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## Giru

seamon said:


> Probably Cayin N8's Line Out


No I meant a dedicated DAC. Besides if this is the same price as the N8....I'll have to eat my words for giving away my money😂


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## seamon

Giru said:


> No I meant a dedicated DAC. Besides if this is the same price as the N8....I'll have to eat my words for giving away my money😂


I think you can use it as a USB DAC


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## audionewbi

I don't think C9 will be price the same as their Cayin desktop amp, their current competitors are pick audio origa, phatlab phabtsay II and none of the are balance in. 
If I was to take a guess, it will be priced between 1000-1500 USD.


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## Giru

seamon said:


> I think you can use it as a USB DAC


At that price there are better standalone dacs I guess.



audionewbi said:


> I don't think C9 will be price the same as their Cayin desktop amp, their current competitors are pick audio origa, phatlab phabtsay II and none of the are balance in.
> If I was to take a guess, it will be priced between 1000-1500 USD.


I really hope not. Fingers crossed. Although my guess would be in the 600-800 usd range.


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## PhilW

Giru said:


> Give us a good DAC to stack this with and you can take my money right now😅.
> Can't wait. Subbed.



yes the N6ii with A02 card. It ONLY has Pre Amp or Line Out mode, it's not for headphones


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## seanwee

Giru said:


> At that price there are better standalone dacs I guess.
> 
> 
> I really hope not. Fingers crossed. Although my guess would be in the 600-800 usd range.


Yeah on the second post I hoped it would be around 500-750. 

If it's 1000-1500 it should be a dac/amp or can drive high power headphones.


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## fukzen

seanwee said:


> Yeah on the second post I hoped it would be around 500-750.
> 
> If it's 1000-1500 it should be a dac/amp or can drive high power headphones.


agree. 
i love cayin product, but price over 700 would stop my desire for c9


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## audionewbi

I do hope it is priced around 700 USD, but that is all I can do, hope.


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## Jeffyue

audionewbi said:


> I do hope it is priced around 700 USD, but that is all I can do, hope.



I would guess it s around USD600. 
Similar to the level of ifi iDSD BL...


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## davidmolliere

Jeffyue said:


> I would guess it s around USD600.
> Similar to the level of ifi iDSD BL...



Optimistic... with class A/AB and NuTubes I really don't think this will happen. 
More along the lines of 800/900


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## Titienne

I agree with what was said by others. 500-600 USD would be a nice sweet spot. The fact that it can't really power full-sized headphones (like the micro BL can) makes it a bit less versatile.


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## DaYooper

Titienne said:


> The fact that it can't really power full-sized headphones



And how do you know this--for a fact?


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## seanwee

DaYooper said:


> And how do you know this--for a fact?





Andykong said:


> If power hungry headphones includes HiFiman HE6, Susvara, AB1266 Phi, AKG K1000, Audeze LCD4, ... sorry, we are not powerful enough for these.
> 
> *IEMs remain as the primary target of C9 portable headphone amp.*


Probably from this post. 

Personally I'm expecting 800mw/32ohm kind of power which should be sufficient for the vast majority of headphones.


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## DaYooper

I guess then it's a good thing none of the headphones I own can't be driven by about any of the daps I own. Except of course the 300 ohm HD800.
So i won't need to spend money on this or the new board either.


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## twister6

davidmolliere said:


> Optimistic... with class A/AB and NuTubes I really don't think this will happen.
> More along the lines of 800/900



I'm leaning more toward this as well.  Class A/AB and *dual* NuTubes or Solid State, fully balanced portable amp with replaceable rechargeable batteries.


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## Giru

Frankly I've tried using my large cans for portable use and it never really materialises. So I'm mostly looking for a portable amp/dac or a combo that will be good with iems. To that end this looks like a very good option.


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## PopZeus

Never wanted a portable amp before but this looks really cool. My fingers are crossed it can power the LCD-GX balanced. But also, we're gonna need more options for 4.4mm interconnects! Fast becoming a trend with new gear.


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## seamon

PopZeus said:


> Never wanted a portable amp before but this looks really cool. My fingers are crossed it can power the LCD-GX balanced. But also, we're gonna need more options for 4.4mm interconnects! Fast becoming a trend with new gear.


20ohms + 100 db/mW. LCD GX doesn't look particularly hard to drive. This should be more than enough.


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## headphonesaddict123

does anyone know if this cayin c9 amplifier has switchable opamps?


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## iFi audio

seamon said:


> LCD GX doesn't look particularly hard to drive



It's not from what I can tell


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## davidmolliere

The C9 will be my xMas self gift for sure, hot for it!


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## bluestorm1992

I am not sure whether this is a fair reference, but just want to provide more information. From the people who had the chance to listen to C9 in their first roadshow in Guangzhou, they said that the combo of N6ii and C9 sounds the same or even better than N8. Some people use this as a reference and conjecture that price should therefore be comparable, i.e., N6ii+C9 = N8.


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## seamon

bluestorm1992 said:


> I am not sure whether this is a fair reference, but just want to provide more information. From the people who had the chance to listen to C9 in their first roadshow in Guangzhou, they said that the combo of N6ii and C9 sounds the same or even better than N8. Some people use this as a reference and conjecture that price should therefore be comparable, i.e., N6ii+C9 = N8.


inb4 $1500 C9


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## davidmolliere

bluestorm1992 said:


> I am not sure whether this is a fair reference, but just want to provide more information. From the people who had the chance to listen to C9 in their first roadshow in Guangzhou, they said that the combo of N6ii and C9 sounds the same or even better than N8. Some people use this as a reference and conjecture that price should therefore be comparable, i.e., N6ii+C9 = N8.



IMHO this price reasoning is flawed, you can't compare the convenience of all in one package of the N8 to stacking with an amp...there is a price to that. N8 is a feat of engineering fitting all the components in that body, and remains a unique proposition. No doubt N9 will at some point take it even further and close the gap with C9.

Not surprised though about the report of C9 SQ... C9 being balanced and class A + AB it probably has more power both on the Tube and SS out and there is way more room for the amp design as well. You are not bound by the same constraints obviously allowing for better performance at a reasonable price. Just my 2 cents...


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## audionewbi

@Andykong When will the pre-orders take place? What are the chances of getting this before the Chrismas break?


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## 1TrickPony

audionewbi said:


> @Andykong When will the pre-orders take place? What are the chances of getting this before the Chrismas break?



Take everyone's money! Please!  And be nice!  Lmao


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## seanwee

1TrickPony said:


> Take everyone's money! Please!  And be nice!  Lmao


At a reasonable price sure


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## audionewbi

1TrickPony said:


> Take everyone's money! Please!  And be nice!  Lmao


I'm aware I'm drinking the poison


----------



## 1TrickPony

audionewbi said:


> I'm aware I'm drinking the poison



I'm with you brotha!  The more people share this heavy load,  the less poisonous it becomes!  Cmon @Andykong  give us a hard to resist pre sale discount.


----------



## Andykong (Oct 6, 2021)

I have the C9 engineering sample, I must stress again that this an engineering sample, a work in progress, there are dozen of things on the refinement list so don't go into fine prints when you look at the photos.

The first thing I checked out is the power management.  As you can see, the 4x18650 batteries are housed in a metal module. The 4 batteries are configured as 4 in series then in parallel, offering +/-8.4V power supply to the amplification circuit, this is much better then the regular 3.7V  lithium battery from sound quality perspective. 

it is secured by two screws only, one on each side.  If you remove the screws, you can slide out the battery module and replace the battery immediately, That means if you bought 1 or 2 extra set of 18650 batteries, you can ran the C9 continuously for 20 or 30 hours.  The 18650 battery comes with different brands, capacity and CDR (continuous discharge rating), it will influence to the sound signature of the C9 to certain extend, not significant but still worth taking into consideration.  In addition, the C9 battery module is a 18650 charger (Type-C input at back panel) on its own right and we are going to make it available as a C9 accessories.  If you purchase an addition battery module, you can actually slide it out and connect it to an USB charger and charge up the 18650 batteries separately while you are enjoying your C9 with your second battery module.

So you don't need to worry about battery duration and what happen if the batteries died, the 18650 are widely available so you can have peace of mind that the C9 will remain functional for a very long time


----------



## Andykong

audionewbi said:


> @Andykong When will the pre-orders take place? What are the chances of getting this before the Chrismas break?



We sure want to deliver the C9 before Christmas, and from the schedule I read, I am still optimistic about this schedule.


----------



## Andykong

PopZeus said:


> Never wanted a portable amp before but this looks really cool. My fingers are crossed it can power the LCD-GX balanced. But also, we're gonna need more options for 4.4mm interconnects! Fast becoming a trend with new gear.





seamon said:


> 20ohms + 100 db/mW. LCD GX doesn't look particularly hard to drive. This should be more than enough.



You need to consider the driver/transducer size and type before you estimate the driving requirements.  For example, even when all three drivers are rated at 20Ω, 100 db/mW, 10mm dynamic driver (IEM) vs 50mm dynamic driver (Full size Headphone) vs 100mm planar transducer represent very different loading requirements.   The LCD-GX happens to be 106mm large size planars, while it is not difficult to make it play loud, the current required to control and make it sound good is a very different matters, and current is, in many case, the bottleneck of portable amplifier

I expect C9 to perform quite decent with LCD-GX, but not necessarily as decent as a desktop amplifier at the same price.


----------



## Andykong

headphonesaddict123 said:


> does anyone know if this cayin c9 amplifier has switchable opamps?



C9 is  fully discrete Class A/AB amplifier, you can't roll op-amp because there we don't use them in C9.  If you are unfamiliar with discrete amplifier, check out *HERE*, *HERE *and *HERE*.


----------



## Andykong (May 31, 2021)

seanwee said:


> Probably from this post.
> 
> Personally I'm expecting 800mw/32ohm kind of power which should be sufficient for the vast majority of headphones.



We only build several engineering samples at this stage, so I don't have any measurements available.  The C9 offers many different options, tube vs SS, Class A vs Class AB, Standard mode vs Pure Power Amp mode, etc.  the power rating will probably end up as a fairly complicated table.  If we are referring to the maximum output setting, the the output of C9 should be way beyond 800mW@32Ω,  the E02 is discrete Class AB rated at 600mW@32Ω, The N3Pro is rated at 800mW@32Ω, the C9 is a lot more powerful then these two.

But all this probably might mean nothing to you because you can ignore the 800mW output rating of N3Pro and only look at the single-end vacuum tube output at 130mW.  So I assume the maximum output setting of C9 is irrelevant, right?

When I said "IEMs remain as the primary target of C9 portable headphone amp. ", I means we have to make sure C9 works well with most IEMs in the market. The last thing we want is for C9 to become overpowered for most IEMs, but at the same time, not as good as desktop headphone amplifier at similar price.  I did come across very well-received products that give me exactly this feeling,

On the other hand, the statement didn't really stated that C9 will not work well with full size headphones.  We just don't aimed at that, and we don't use full size headphone as the benchmark when we fine tune the audio performance of C9.


----------



## Andykong

Giru said:


> Frankly I've tried using my large cans for portable use and it never really materialises. So I'm mostly looking for a portable amp/dac or a combo that will be good with iems. To that end this looks like a very good option.



This is exactly our thinking.  If full size headphones are your number 1 priority, then please go for a desktop amplifier.  Portable amplifier, even as powerful as C9, will not outperform desktop amplifier at the same price, so why should we put full size headphone as primary priority? 

We are going to make C9 as good as it can with IEM, and in our experience, it will sound nice with a lot of headphones even when we are not aiming at them directly.


----------



## seanwee

Andykong said:


> We only build several engineering samples at this stage, so I don't have any measurements available.  The C9 offers many different options, tube vs SS, Class A vs Class AB, Standard mode vs Pure Power Amp mode, etc.  the power rating will probably end up as a fairly complicated table.  If we are referring to the maximum output setting, the the output of C9 should be way beyond 800mW@32Ω,  the E02 is discrete Class AB rated at 600mW@32Ω, The N3Pro is rated at 800mW@32Ω, the C9 is a lot more powerful then these two.
> 
> When I said "IEMs remain as the primary target of C9 portable headphone amp. ", I means we have to make sure C9 works well with most IEMs in the market. The last thing we want is for C9 to become overpowered for most IEMs, but at the same time, not as good as desktop headphone amplifier at similar price.  I did come across very well-received products that give me exactly this feeling,
> 
> On the other hand, the statement didn't really stated that C9 will not work well with full size headphones.  We just don't aimed at that, and we don't use full size headphone as the benchmark when we find tune the audio performance of C9.


If that is so I wouldn't feel mislead at all if it was claimed to be able to power full sized headphones haha. It should be outstanding as a portable amp.

Whats Pure Power Amp mode btw?


----------



## seanwee

Andykong said:


> This is exactly our thinking.  If full size headphones are your number 1 priority, then please go for a desktop amplifier.  Portable amplifier, even as powerful as C9, will not outperform desktop amplifier at the same price, so why should we put full size headphone as primary priority?


Define "same price"


----------



## Andykong

Giru said:


> Give us a good DAC to stack this with and you can take my money right now😅.
> Can't wait. Subbed.



Let's build a list for your question.

DAP with un-amplified "clean" balanced line out

Cayin N8
Cayin N6ii (E02)
Cayin N6ii (A02)
Hiby R8

Please add more options to the list, I only list items that I have first hand experience.


----------



## Andykong (Oct 7, 2020)

seanwee said:


> If that is so I wouldn't feel mislead at all if it was claimed to be able to power full sized headphones haha. It should be outstanding as a portable amp.
> 
> Whats Pure Power Amp mode btw?



Define full size headphones.
Define able to power.
How can I define full size headphones without involving models such as HE6, Susvara, K1000, AB-1266?  To what condition do I need to prove that an amplifier is able to power these amplifier? Play a particular note to a particular loudness?


----------



## seanwee

Andykong said:


> Define full size headphones.
> Define able to power.
> How can I define full size headphones without involving models such as HE6, Susvara, K1000, AB-1266?  To what condition do I need to prove that an amplifier is able to power these amplifier? Play a particular note to a particular loudness?


I would say it's ok to call it that if it can power reasonably demanding planar like the HE 1000. It'd be absurd to expect a portable amp to be able to power the most demanding headphones in the market wouldn't you agree 

And a reasonable loudness is what people consider a loud listening volume (90-95dba) +10% headroom so it doesn't clip. That seems to be the "powerful enough" standard at least.


----------



## Andykong (Oct 7, 2020)

seanwee said:


> I would say it's ok to call it that if it can power reasonably demanding planar like the HE 1000. It'd be absurd to expect a portable amp to be able to power the most demanding headphones in the market wouldn't you agree
> 
> And a reasonable loudness is what people consider a loud listening volume (90-95dba) +10% headroom so it doesn't clip. That seems to be the "powerful enough" standard at least.



Any comment?  If an amp can drive a headphone to 95dB at 1kHz without clipping, it is defined as powerful enough to drive the headphone already?

How can I measure 10% headroom?


----------



## Giru

Andykong said:


> This is exactly our thinking.  If full size headphones are your number 1 priority, then please go for a desktop amplifier.  Portable amplifier, even as powerful as C9, will not outperform desktop amplifier at the same price, so why should we put full size headphone as primary priority?
> 
> We are going to make C9 as good as it can with IEM, and in our experience, it will sound nice with a lot of headphones even when we are not aiming at them directly.


This is a very good decision in my opinion. Too many manufacturer's making jack-of-all-trades devices these days which end up being unusable for either application. 
Way to go cayin! You have my vote😁


----------



## Nostoi

Andykong said:


> This is exactly our thinking.  If full size headphones are your number 1 priority, then please go for a desktop amplifier.  Portable amplifier, even as powerful as C9, will not outperform desktop amplifier at the same price, so why should we put full size headphone as primary priority?
> 
> We are going to make C9 as good as it can with IEM, and in our experience, it will sound nice with a lot of headphones even when we are not aiming at them directly.


I'm excited for this amp and really appreciate all the honest info you're providing for it in advance. Very refreshing.


----------



## Ynot1

Christmas, Hd 560 S, and C9. Sounds like a good wishlist pairing.


----------



## quisxx

seanwee said:


> Define "same price"


🤣🤣🤣 nice one


----------



## seanwee

quisxx said:


> 🤣🤣🤣 nice one


Ah you noticed



Didn't get Andy to reveal anything though


----------



## twister6

seanwee said:


> Ah you noticed
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't get Andy to reveal anything though


----------



## Andykong

Facta said:


> The way Cayin is doling out oodles of output power on its new devices, I won't be surprised if one could use C9 for even desktop amplification needs associated with full-size dynamic headphones of >250ohm. I just hope tube rolling would be made possible. I sure would love to know if this looks a promising enough alternative to Bottlehead Crack +Speedball especially for desktop use with Sennheiser HD6XX or Clear Professional. I never tried Bottlehead but heard it is not good for low impedance cans that might see bass getting rolled off.



As someone has pointed out, you can't tube rolling with C9, we use a pair of KORG Nutube 6P1, it has very unique form factor so there isn't any substitute tube available.

The Focus Audio Clear or Clear Professional are not demanding headphones, the C9 should have no problem with them.  The HD6xx line is another matters, HD600 > HD650 > HD660 in terms of loading, so I would say C9 should handle HD660 alright, and HD600 is wait and see.


----------



## Titienne

Really looking forward to this. No hiss with the Andromeda and VE8 would be great !


----------



## Andykong (Oct 7, 2020)

Titienne said:


> Really looking forward to this. No hiss with the Andromeda and VE8 would be great !



I have tried Andromeda already, it hiss, but it sounds good.


----------



## Zachik

Andykong said:


> I have tried Andromeda already, it hiss, but it sounds good.


I think Andromeda is so sensitive that it hisses even when not plugged to anything...


----------



## Titienne

Zachik said:


> I think Andromeda is so sensitive that it hisses even when not plugged to anything...



Doesn't hiss out of my Lotoo Paw S1, which is a $160 dac/amp 🤷‍♂️


----------



## seamon

Please release this fast.


----------



## davidmolliere

seamon said:


> Please release this fast.



All good things come to those who wait


----------



## twister6 (Oct 9, 2020)

davidmolliere said:


> All good things come to those who wait



... and able to afford the new toy 

I was just talking to someone who said that he blew though his 2020 audio gear budget and can't buy anything else this year, but he just must have C9 even so he doesn't have need for it lol!!!!


----------



## davidmolliere

twister6 said:


> ... and able to afford the new toy  I was just talking to someone who said that he blew though his 2020 audio gear budget and can't buy anything else this year, but he just must have C9 even so he doesn't have need for it lol!!!!



That's what xMas is for 

Some of us are past budget anyway so, what's a C9 on top


----------



## runningwitit

davidmolliere said:


> That's what xMas is for
> 
> Some of us are past budget anyway so, what's a C9 on top


I think we all need to go to the rehab and try to kick this extremely pleasurable and disgusting habit... Lol...

I like this model myself and want to know how to use it with the Ibasso dx 200 max dap? 

The C9 is just and amp, meaning no player, correct? So, how would I connect these two amplifiers together?


----------



## Andykong

runningwitit said:


> I think we all need to go to the rehab and try to kick this extremely pleasurable and disgusting habit... Lol...
> 
> I like this model myself and want to know how to use it with the Ibasso dx 200 max dap?
> 
> The C9 is just and amp, meaning no player, correct? So, how would I connect these two amplifiers together?



The straight forward option is to connect DX220Max line out to C9 input.  Does DX220Max has unamp. balanced line out?


----------



## musicinmymind

Bass boost option would great on C9. Already it has many SQ options, but some IEM lack bass and it would be fun to have boost.


----------



## runningwitit

Andykong said:


> The straight forward option is to connect DX220Max line out to C9 input.  Does DX220Max has unamp. balanced line out?


Yes... The Max does have a 4.4 balanced line out.
An unamp? I know you can switch the dac off and on, the amp, don't know about that one


----------



## seamon

musicinmymind said:


> Bass boost option would great on C9. Already it has many SQ options, but some IEM lack bass and it would be fun to have boost.


Neutral or Bust!


----------



## musicinmymind

seamon said:


> Neutral or Bust!



Something like Headstage arrow amp does, boost subbass. Never heard an portable amp, which has clean subbass boost like arrow, it is phenomenal.


----------



## Whitigir

Interesting!! Perfect candidate for my DAT Walkman


----------



## feverfive

Looks terrific, and I presume will sound awesome as well.  Way beyond my decidedly mid-fi sensibilities these days, but I'll still admire from afar.


----------



## 1TrickPony

Just excited to see the return of the external portable amping...

Wait for that official pricing drop! 😅


----------



## Vitaly2017

How friendly is it with iems? Of course talking about noise floor and hiss...
Is it good like the N8?


----------



## 1TrickPony

Vitaly2017 said:


> How friendly is it with iems? Of course talking about noise floor and hiss...
> Is it good like the N8?



Read the thread... in case you missed it.  Or go a few post up.


----------



## Vitaly2017

1TrickPony said:


> Read the thread... in case you missed it.  Or go a few post up.




Great now lets wait and see if it will hiss,  even though it been mentioned andro did hiss 😅


----------



## PopZeus

Andykong said:


> You need to consider the driver/transducer size and type before you estimate the driving requirements.  For example, even when all three drivers are rated at 20Ω, 100 db/mW, 10mm dynamic driver (IEM) vs 50mm dynamic driver (Full size Headphone) vs 100mm planar transducer represent very different loading requirements.   The LCD-GX happens to be 106mm large size planars, while it is not difficult to make it play loud, the current required to control and make it sound good is a very different matters, and current is, in many case, the bottleneck of portable amplifier
> 
> I expect C9 to perform quite decent with LCD-GX, but not necessarily as decent as a desktop amplifier at the same price.



Totally fair answer. I will say, I'm impressed with how "decent" the GX can sound with my DAP, but my desktop rig takes it to another level. While I'm impressed with how far IEMs have come in the past few years, I still prefer over-ear, open-back headphones when I can use them even in portable situations.


----------



## seamon

@Andykong What's the Output Impedance like?


----------



## runningwitit

I would like a high power amp...
Lots of juice!!


----------



## Zachik

runningwitit said:


> I would like a high power amp...
> *Lots of juice!!*


----------



## Andykong

PopZeus said:


> Totally fair answer. I will say, I'm impressed with how "decent" the GX can sound with my DAP, but my desktop rig takes it to another level. While I'm impressed with how far IEMs have come in the past few years, I still prefer over-ear, open-back headphones when I can use them even in portable situations.



I am sure this is the natural understanding when you have solid experience of driving full size headphones with both portable and desktop amplifier.  The concept of driving ABC headphone to 90dB/100dB simply don't make any sense practically.  For the record, I have test the C9 engineering sample with Hifiman HE6, the C9 can drive it to very loud when I feed a 1kHz test tone, but when I play a music passage,  it is flat and congested, the separation and dynamic are seriously lacking, let alone the emotions and climates of the music content.


----------



## Andykong (Oct 11, 2020)

seamon said:


> @Andykong What's the Output Impedance like?


I can only tell when C9 complete the R&D process, full specifications should be available  around one month from now.


----------



## seanwee

Andykong said:


> I can only tell when C9 complete the R&D completely, full specifications should be avaulable  around one month from now.


I look forward to the full specs and price reveal


----------



## seamon

Andykong said:


> I can only tell when C9 complete the R&D completely, full specifications should be avaulable  around one month from now.


11 Nov?


----------



## Andykong

seamon said:


> 11 Nov?



Yes, roughly.


----------



## Whitigir

Andykong said:


> Yes, roughly.


Very nice!! When is order opened up ?


----------



## Raketen

Using standardized, modular batteries that you don't have to use a heat gun and a pry bar to access?!?! WHATt IS THIS MADNESS!!!!!!!!! 

Please let this be a trend.


----------



## Whitigir

Raketen said:


> Using standardized, modular batteries that you don't have to use a heat gun and a pry bar to access?!?! WHATt IS THIS MADNESS!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Please let this be a trend.


Agreed much!! Not to mention that different batteries has different impacts too!!


----------



## seamon

Whitigir said:


> Agreed much!! Not to mention that different batteries has different impacts too!!


Is there a guide to which 18650 batteries sound best?


----------



## PopZeus

Andykong said:


> I am sure this is the natural understanding when you have solid experience of driving full size headphones with both portable and desktop amplifier.  The concept of driving ABC headphone to 90dB/100dB simply don't make any sense practically.  For the record, I have test the C9 engineering sample with Hifiman HE6, the C9 can drive it to very loud when I feed a 1kHz test tone, but when I play a music passage,  it is flat and congested, the separation and dynamic are seriously lacking, let alone the emotions and climates of the music content.



I can hear what you're describing (though not to the extent of something as power hungry as the HE6), so perhaps I can pose the question differently... what kinds of full-size or non-IEM headphones do you think work better in portable situations? Are there even any you would even consider?


----------



## Vitaly2017

Can we connect unbalanced source and use the Balanced output on the C9? 😛😛😛 or vice versa...


----------



## seanwee

Vitaly2017 said:


> Can we connect unbalanced source and use the Balanced output on the C9? 😛😛😛 or vice versa...


Most likely, but you won't get the full sound benefit of balanced. But how it differs will depend on which config you're using.

unbalanced source => C9 => balanced out will affect sound less as you're still getting the benefits of balanced output of the C9 like higher output power, better dynamics etc

balanced source => C9 => unbalanced out will affect sound more as you're losing out on all the aformentioned benefits of using balanced output.


----------



## seamon

seanwee said:


> Most likely, but you won't get the full sound benefit of balanced. But how it differs will depend on which config you're using.
> 
> unbalanced source => C9 => balanced out will affect sound less as you're still getting the benefits of balanced output of the C9 like higher output power, better dynamics etc
> 
> balanced source => C9 => unbalanced out will affect sound more as you're losing out on all the aformentioned benefits of using balanced output.


You might not always want the Balanced Out from the C9 especially for sensitive IEMs.


----------



## seanwee

seamon said:


> You might not always want the Balanced Out from the C9 especially for sensitive IEMs.


There is a low gain option as well if i remember correctly.


----------



## Andykong

seanwee said:


> Most likely, but you won't get the full sound benefit of balanced. But how it differs will depend on which config you're using.
> 
> unbalanced source => C9 => balanced out will affect sound less as you're still getting the benefits of balanced output of the C9 like higher output power, better dynamics etc
> 
> balanced source => C9 => unbalanced out will affect sound more as you're losing out on all the aformentioned benefits of using balanced output.



Amazing, you are so confident like saying 1+1=2 on the technical detail of Cayin C9.
Apparantly you know so much about C9, a lot more than I do.  Do you have access to technical implementation of Single end to balanced coversion and balanced to single ended conversion of C9? Or you assume all conversions are the same? You know one, and you know it all?

You really are extraordinary.



seanwee said:


> There is a low gain option as well if i remember correctly.



Do you have any idea on the different between High gain and Low gain of C9? 6dB? 9dB? 12dB? 16dB?


----------



## ES_EF

@Andykong 

For desktop use with IEMs, would it make sense to use a normal desktop dac > xlr out > custom cable L/R Xlr to Male 4.4mm balanced > C9 

thanks


----------



## ES_EF

really excited about this Amp, have a few daps, "neutral" amps etc but would love to add an amp to the collection that offers "colored" sound option


----------



## Andykong

Vitaly2017 said:


> Can we connect unbalanced source and use the Balanced output on the C9? 😛😛😛 or vice versa...



Yes you can, both conversion are available 

Both conversion will cause downgrade in Dynamic, THD and S/N, I don't have the figures because these are the fine detail that we are still working with. 

We sure don't want to limit how you listen to music, so we enable all combinations.


----------



## seamon

Andykong said:


> Amazing, you are so confident like saying 1+1=2 on the technical detail of Cayin C9.
> Apparantly you know so much about C9, a lot more than I do.  Do you have access to technical implementation of Single end to balanced coversion and balanced to single ended conversion of C9? Or you assume all conversions are the same? You know one, and you know it all?
> 
> You really are extraordinary.
> ...


lol calm down.

As you mentioned in a previous post somewhere, there seems to be a overwhelming belief in Headfi that Balanced is always almost twice as good as SE which is not always the case especially in 2-ch systems. Can't really change the belief overnight even if you release a product that has better SE than BAL(which I am not saying C9 is)


----------



## seamon

ES_EF said:


> really excited about this Amp, have a few daps, "neutral" amps etc but would love to add an amp to the collection that offers "colored" sound option


Personally I am just excited to get a powerful Transportable Amp after getting heavily let down by the Woo Audio WA11


----------



## Vitaly2017

Well you got se and balanced so its all good 😁 you can play and decide wich one you like.

I personally like balanced in low gain as it sounds like Se hehe.
That's how it is on sony daps for me. On c9 it will.be something to test as well.

Se ussualy seems more natural and airy, while balanced has a blacker background and separation and imaging is better as the background is black 😄


----------



## seanwee

Andykong said:


> Amazing, you are so confident like saying 1+1=2 on the technical detail of Cayin C9.
> Apparantly you know so much about C9, a lot more than I do.  Do you have access to technical implementation of Single end to balanced coversion and balanced to single ended conversion of C9? Or you assume all conversions are the same? You know one, and you know it all?
> 
> You really are extraordinary.


Jesus christ chill out Andy, that is just generally what balanced output does, and that has been true for Cayin's devices so far.

If I was wrong, then please, do feel free to correct me.

No need for snide comments. 



Andykong said:


> Do you have any idea on the different between High gain and Low gain of C9? 6dB? 9dB? 12dB? 16dB?


You did say the C9 was meant for iems multiple times. Doesn't matter what the gain difference is between the two outputs, I trust Cayin will make the right decision.


----------



## Andykong (Oct 15, 2020)

PopZeus said:


> I can hear what you're describing (though not to the extent of something as power hungry as the HE6), so perhaps I can pose the question differently... what kinds of full-size or non-IEM headphones do you think work better in portable situations? Are there even any you would even consider?



Any headphones that claimed  portable friendly should be within our reach and performed well, examples are Meze Empyrean, Focal Stella, Clear, Clear Professional, Audio Technica ATH-AP2000Ti, Denon 7200/9200, AKG K872, Dan Clark Aeon2, ...

We can keep expanding the potential list but it become less important as we dig deeper.  To me, the real test are Abyss Diana V2 and HD800.  If C9 perform reasonably well with these two headphones, that would clear the doubt of a lot of potential customers.  The Diana is pretty compact by design, so make it portable physically but it is relatively power hungry, I personally are looking forward to a portable solution.  On the other hand, the HD800 is one of the benchmarks, if not the benchmark.  I hope  C9 can pass these two tests.

I have tried HD800 briefly, with C9 Engineering Sample in 4.4mm power amp mode and N6ii balanced pre out as source.  To be honest I have heard better HD800 in many occasions, even within $2000 DAC+Amp Solution (just a convenient amount, I have no intention to indicate the price of C9), but if I were to describe the problem of C9 Engineering Sample and N6ii combo with HD800, "not enough power" is not the number 1 or 2 concern.


----------



## seamon

Andykong said:


> Any headphones that claimed  portable friendly should be within our reach and performed well, examples are Meze Empyrean, Focal Stella, Clear, Clear Professional, Audio Technica ATH-AP2000Ti, Denon 7200/9200, AKG K872, Dan Clark Aeon2, ...
> 
> We can keep expanding the potential list but it become less important as we dig deeper.  To me, the real test are Abyss Diana V2 and HD800.  If C9 perform reasonably well with these two headphones, that would clear the doubt of a lot of potential customers.  The Diana is pretty compact by design, so make it portable physically but it is relatively power hungry, I personally are looking forward to a portable solution.  On the other hand, the HD800 is one of the benchmarks, if not the benchmark.  I hope  C9 can pass these two tests.
> 
> I have tried HD800 briefly, with C9 Engineering Sample in 4.4mm power amp mode and N6ii balanced pre out as source.  To be honest I have heard better HD800 in many occasions, even within $2000 DAC+Amp Solution (just a convenient amount, I have no intention to indicate the price of C9), but if I were to describe the problem of C9 Engineering Sample and N6ii combo, "not enough power" is not the number 1 or 2 concern.


Cayin C9 price $2000 confirmed.


----------



## seanwee

seamon said:


> Cayin C9 price $2000 confirmed.


What a madlad


----------



## noplsestar

Andykong said:


> Any headphones that claimed  portable friendly should be within our reach and performed well, examples are Meze Empyrean, Focal Stella, Clear, Clear Professional, Audio Technica ATH-AP2000Ti, Denon 7200/9200, AKG K872, Dan Clark Aeon2, ...
> 
> We can keep expanding the potential list but it become less important as we dig deeper.  To me, the real test are Abyss Diana V2 and HD800.  If C9 perform reasonably well with these two headphones, that would clear the doubt of a lot of potential customers.  The Diana is pretty compact by design, so make it portable physically but it is relatively power hungry, I personally are looking forward to a portable solution.  On the other hand, the HD800 is one of the benchmarks, if not the benchmark.  I hope  C9 can pass these two tests.
> 
> I have tried HD800 briefly, with C9 Engineering Sample in 4.4mm power amp mode and N6ii balanced pre out as source.  To be honest I have heard better HD800 in many occasions, even within $2000 DAC+Amp Solution (just a convenient amount, I have no intention to indicate the price of C9), but if I were to describe the problem of C9 Engineering Sample and N6ii combo, "not enough power" is not the number 1 or 2 concern.


Man, I value your honesty very high. Not that often in your business. Also kind of liked how you lost a bit your nerve in an earlier post, that showed you‘re still a human like us and not a sales robot 👍


----------



## seamon

Andykong said:


> Any headphones that claimed  portable friendly should be within our reach and performed well, examples are Meze Empyrean, Focal Stella, Clear, Clear Professional, Audio Technica ATH-AP2000Ti, Denon 7200/9200, AKG K872, Dan Clark Aeon2, ...
> 
> We can keep expanding the potential list but it become less important as we dig deeper.  To me, the real test are Abyss Diana V2 and HD800.  If C9 perform reasonably well with these two headphones, that would clear the doubt of a lot of potential customers.  The Diana is pretty compact by design, so make it portable physically but it is relatively power hungry, I personally are looking forward to a portable solution.  On the other hand, the HD800 is one of the benchmarks, if not the benchmark.  I hope  C9 can pass these two tests.
> 
> I have tried HD800 briefly, with C9 Engineering Sample in 4.4mm power amp mode and N6ii balanced pre out as source.  To be honest I have heard better HD800 in many occasions, even within $2000 DAC+Amp Solution (just a convenient amount, I have no intention to indicate the price of C9), but if I were to describe the problem of C9 Engineering Sample and N6ii combo, "not enough power" is not the number 1 or 2 concern.


On a serious note, here's my current transportable setup for the Diana V2:





Hoping C9 can surpass this especially in the transparency department.


----------



## seanwee

seamon said:


> On a serious note, here's my current transportable setup for the Diana V2:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How about enjoyability?


----------



## Jeffyue

seamon said:


> Cayin C9 price $2000 confirmed.



WA8 vs. C9 please?


----------



## noplsestar

Jeffyue said:


> WA8 vs. C9 please?


it isn’t released yet. But get your credit card ready. X-mas lies ahead anyways.


----------



## PopZeus

Andykong said:


> Any headphones that claimed  portable friendly should be within our reach and performed well, examples are Meze Empyrean, Focal Stella, Clear, Clear Professional, Audio Technica ATH-AP2000Ti, Denon 7200/9200, AKG K872, Dan Clark Aeon2, ...
> 
> We can keep expanding the potential list but it become less important as we dig deeper.  To me, the real test are Abyss Diana V2 and HD800.  If C9 perform reasonably well with these two headphones, that would clear the doubt of a lot of potential customers.  The Diana is pretty compact by design, so make it portable physically but it is relatively power hungry, I personally are looking forward to a portable solution.  On the other hand, the HD800 is one of the benchmarks, if not the benchmark.  I hope  C9 can pass these two tests.
> 
> I have tried HD800 briefly, with C9 Engineering Sample in 4.4mm power amp mode and N6ii balanced pre out as source.  To be honest I have heard better HD800 in many occasions, even within $2000 DAC+Amp Solution (just a convenient amount, I have no intention to indicate the price of C9), but if I were to describe the problem of C9 Engineering Sample and N6ii combo, "not enough power" is not the number 1 or 2 concern.



You're just trying to convince me to get the Empyrean! I know what you're up to!  (Just kidding, I just really want to get the Empyrean eventually.) I am also waiting to see what Audeze does with the closed-back version of the LCD-1. That one could be a decent alternative to the AFC or Panda.

Thanks for the response!


----------



## Andykong

seamon said:


> On a serious note, here's my current transportable setup for the Diana V2:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



A great system but I believe the full setup is a 5 piece suit.  You need a digital source to this transportable, you are using a phone for that? or a DAP?


----------



## Andykong

seamon said:


> lol calm down.
> 
> As you mentioned in a previous post somewhere, there seems to be a overwhelming belief in Headfi that Balanced is always almost twice as good as SE which is not always the case especially in 2-ch systems. Can't really change the belief overnight even if you release a product that has better SE than BAL(which I am not saying C9 is)



A lot of these impressions were based on devices that has a significantly weaker single ended audio circuit or implementation when compare to the balanced output, like $50 spend to build the balanced amplication circuit, the single ended option probably cost $25 only.  When you know your stuff and spend the same amount on both options, the impression can be very different.

The two major benefits of balanced driven is channel sepetation and more current, the former is preferred almost unanimously, but more current is not necessarily good, especially with highly sensitive BA IEMs.


----------



## Andykong

noplsestar said:


> Man, I value your honesty very high. Not that often in your business. Also kind of liked how you lost a bit your nerve in an earlier post, that showed you‘re still a human like us and not a sales robot 👍



Thanks for your support and appreciation.

I had the opportunity to try out HD820 with my engineering sample yesterday when visiting an audiophile friend, with the original 4.4mm cable from Senn, turns out the HD820 is a slightly easier load in practice and C9 can take advantage of that.  My friend described that as a very positive experience.


----------



## Andykong

I'll take a week off and away for a short trip,  I didn't take any dayoff during the National Anniversary holiday so its my turn now, in case anyone need urgent support, you can PM @CayinSupport.


----------



## seanwee (Oct 15, 2020)

Andykong said:


> A lot of these impressions were based on devices that has a significantly weaker single ended audio circuit or implementation when compare to the balanced output, like $50 spend to build the balanced amplication circuit, the single ended option probably cost $25 only.  When you know your stuff and spend the same amount on both options, the impression can be very different.


Definitely, the N8 and N3 pro is a testament to that.  

But given the C9 is a balanced amplifier with double nutube goodness wouldn't it be natural to expect it to be able to beat the single ended SQ of the N8


----------



## seamon

Andykong said:


> A great system but I believe the full setup is a 5 piece suit.  You need a digital source to this transportable, you are using a phone for that? or a DAP?


Laptop! Using this as a reference transportable monitoring station.


----------



## runningwitit (Oct 16, 2020)

seanwee said:


> Definitely, the N8 and N3 pro is a testament to that.
> 
> But given the C9 is a balanced amplifier with double nutube goodness wouldn't it be natural to expect it to be able to beat the single ended SQ of the N8


Personally, I would like for it to have the ability to utilze the advantages of me purchasing all these different balanced cables.

Whatever the result, I hope it will be priced where I can just jump on it when it's released!


----------



## runningwitit

[QUOWhat about the Max?TE="Whitigir, post: 15910125, member: 378966"]
Interesting!! Perfect candidate for my DAT Walkman
[/QUOTE]


----------



## vkenz

Can they put a DAC in as well?  Like the Hugo2.


----------



## twister6

vkenz said:


> Can they put a DAC in as well?  Like the Hugo2.



I'm sure they can add DACs, a display, storage, etc., and call it N9 , but to keep a fully balanced design with two NuTube modules and additional solid state amp ckt, the rest of analog circuits to go along with it, and removable rechargeable batteries in a compact footprint, this one has enough room only for amplifier design.  Nothing is going to change since this is a finished product, presumably ready for production soon.


----------



## seamon

Looks like the C9 comes default with Sony Murata VTC6 batteries
https://www.18650batterystore.com/Sony-18650-p/sony-vtc6.htm

They are recommended for high drain application. I wonder if there are better options


----------



## Barndoor

My Vape mod uses 18650. Sony batteries are highly regarded as one of the best in vape circles.


----------



## andersos

Is the price and specs reveal still happening at the end of October?


----------



## seamon

andersos said:


> Is the price and specs reveal still happening at the end of October?


From what I am hearing from the grapevine, its supposed to be this week.


----------



## someyoungguy

Saw this at the Shanghai SIAV 2020 expo today (http://sh.siav.com.cn). A few pics below. I'd actually never heard of it or seen this thread before so took me by surprise. They're not available for sale here yet either, but they had a few of them at the stands and advertising banners for it.

Can't say too much in depth about it as it was quick listen and in a show environment. It was being fed by an N6II, which I'm not so familiar with, but had my own microSD card loaded and hooked up my own earphones. Switching between the solid state/tube options didn't bring out a "tubey", in your face kind of change after a first listen, probably needs a better listening environment and longer time to appreciate the difference. The class switch had three stops too, so I figured it would be full class A, full AB, and then a step in between for dual class A/AB? All in all it looks pretty good and sounded good to boot. I felt the timbre/class switches altered the sound somewhat but weren't big jumps. They all sounded pretty sweet but would need more time to get a feel for.


----------



## Nostoi

someyoungguy said:


> Saw this at the Shanghai SIAV 2020 expo today (http://sh.siav.com.cn). A few pics below. I'd actually never heard of it or seen this thread before so took me by surprise. They're not available for sale here yet either, but they had a few of them at the stands and advertising banners for it.
> 
> Can't say too much in depth about it as it was quick listen and in a show environment. It was being fed by an N6II, which I'm not so familiar with, but had my own microSD card loaded and hooked up my own earphones. Switching between the solid state/tube options didn't bring out a "tubey", in your face kind of change after a first listen, probably needs a better listening environment and longer time to appreciate the difference. The class switch had three stops too, so I figured it would be full class A, full AB, and then a step in between for dual class A/AB? All in all it looks pretty good and sounded good to boot. I felt the timbre/class switches altered the sound somewhat but weren't big jumps. They all sounded pretty sweet but would need more time to get a feel for.


Love the form factor and design. Absolutely grabbing one when it comes out.


----------



## andersos

someyoungguy said:


> Saw this at the Shanghai SIAV 2020 expo today (http://sh.siav.com.cn). A few pics below. I'd actually never heard of it or seen this thread before so took me by surprise. They're not available for sale here yet either, but they had a few of them at the stands and advertising banners for it.
> 
> Can't say too much in depth about it as it was quick listen and in a show environment. It was being fed by an N6II, which I'm not so familiar with, but had my own microSD card loaded and hooked up my own earphones. Switching between the solid state/tube options didn't bring out a "tubey", in your face kind of change after a first listen, probably needs a better listening environment and longer time to appreciate the difference. The class switch had three stops too, so I figured it would be full class A, full AB, and then a step in between for dual class A/AB? All in all it looks pretty good and sounded good to boot. I felt the timbre/class switches altered the sound somewhat but weren't big jumps. They all sounded pretty sweet but would need more time to get a feel for.


No mention about price and specs?


----------



## Whitigir

someyoungguy said:


> Saw this at the Shanghai SIAV 2020 expo today (http://sh.siav.com.cn). A few pics below. I'd actually never heard of it or seen this thread before so took me by surprise. They're not available for sale here yet either, but they had a few of them at the stands and advertising banners for it.
> 
> Can't say too much in depth about it as it was quick listen and in a show environment. It was being fed by an N6II, which I'm not so familiar with, but had my own microSD card loaded and hooked up my own earphones. Switching between the solid state/tube options didn't bring out a "tubey", in your face kind of change after a first listen, probably needs a better listening environment and longer time to appreciate the difference. The class switch had three stops too, so I figured it would be full class A, full AB, and then a step in between for dual class A/AB? All in all it looks pretty good and sounded good to boot. I felt the timbre/class switches altered the sound somewhat but weren't big jumps. They all sounded pretty sweet but would need more time to get a feel for.


thanks for pics and impressions! We are 1 more week until “election”....errrgghhh, I meant until November! So when will the order begin ? Lol


----------



## arijitroy2

Oh boy I need one!!


----------



## runningwitit

Whitigir said:


> thanks for pics and impressions! We are 1 more week until “election”....errrgghhh, I meant until November! So when will the order begin ? Lol





Whitigir said:


> thanks for pics and impressions! We are 1 more week until “election”....errrgghhh, I meant until November! So when will the order begin ? Lol


End of November says Music Teck.


----------



## audionewbi

Nutube is not designed to sound like your old school tubes, they are all about midrange clarity, yet still remaining neutral.


----------



## seamon

I'm deciding between this and A2P TUR-06


----------



## audionewbi

seamon said:


> I'm deciding between this and A2P TUR-06


Well, that is a different beast altogether. That device is made to order, hand made to your liking. With that amp, the tube sound is really dependent on the tube you use.


----------



## seamon

audionewbi said:


> Well, that is a different beast altogether. That device is made to order, hand made to your liking. With that amp, the tube sound is really dependent on the tube you use.


They offer nutubes too


----------



## Andykong

seamon said:


> Looks like the C9 comes default with Sony Murata VTC6 batteries
> https://www.18650batterystore.com/Sony-18650-p/sony-vtc6.htm
> 
> They are recommended for high drain application. I wonder if there are better options



You have good eyes   

The design allows you to swap your 18650 batteries quickly, the primary objective is to offer doubled or tripled battery life when you bring one or two set of pre-charged 18650 batteries with you.  It also solve the problem of aged battery after 2-3 years of usage.  On the other hand, changing the batteries will alter the sound signature slightly.  I must emphasis that the change  is audible, but subtle.  We'll leave the final choice to users, I am sure we'll run into users who own a decent collections of 18650 batteries from other hobbies and they can share the experience and impression when C9 is publicly available.



Barndoor said:


> My Vape mod uses 18650. Sony batteries are highly regarded as one of the best in vape circles.



.... and fairly expensive, there are cheaper and still reliable options.


----------



## Andykong

vkenz said:


> Can they put a DAC in as well?  Like the Hugo2.



As a standalone product, yes, we can, but then C9 will be in a different market segment: slightly bigger in size, 40% increase in price, and *a much shorter product life*, nobody will buy a flagship product with outdated DAC chipset, right?  

This is especially the case when Cayin makes decent DAPs already, C9 mix and match with N8, N6ii and N3Pro offers upgrade paths and interesting chemistry among different products, we hope the completed portable product line will enhance the market awareness and recognition in general.


----------



## Andykong

someyoungguy said:


> Saw this at the Shanghai SIAV 2020 expo today (http://sh.siav.com.cn). A few pics below. I'd actually never heard of it or seen this thread before so took me by surprise. They're not available for sale here yet either, but they had a few of them at the stands and advertising banners for it.
> 
> Can't say too much in depth about it as it was quick listen and in a show environment. It was being fed by an N6II, which I'm not so familiar with, but had my own microSD card loaded and hooked up my own earphones. Switching between the solid state/tube options didn't bring out a "tubey", in your face kind of change after a first listen, probably needs a better listening environment and longer time to appreciate the difference. The class switch had three stops too, so I figured it would be full class A, full AB, and then a step in between for dual class A/AB? All in all it looks pretty good and sounded good to boot. I felt the timbre/class switches altered the sound somewhat but weren't big jumps. They all sounded pretty sweet but would need more time to get a feel for.



Thank you very much for sharing your impression from SIAV.  We have four set of C9 in Shanghai right now, 3 were used as demo, and 1 as backup.

The class switch will only has two stops: Class A and Class AB.  There won't be any choice beyond Class A and Class AB in C9.


----------



## dadracer2

Andykong said:


> Thank you very much for sharing your impression from SIAV.  We have four set of C9 in Shanghai right now, 3 were used as demo, and 1 as backup.
> 
> The class switch will only has two stops: Class A and Class AB.  There won't be any choice beyond Class A and Class AB in C9.


Hey Andy. Is there any news on availability and price yet please?


----------



## Andykong

dadracer2 said:


> Hey Andy. Is there any news on availability and price yet please?



No form dates or price is available yet.


----------



## runningwitit

Andykong said:


> Thank you very much for sharing your impression from SIAV.  We have four set of C9 in Shanghai right now, 3 were used as demo, and 1 as backup.
> 
> The class switch will only has two stops: Class A and Class AB.  There won't be any choice beyond Class A and Class AB in C9.


So no full power mode?


----------



## andersos

Yes, what about

Pure Power Amp. Mode, full power output without volume control
Has that feature been left out now?


----------



## seamon

andersos said:


> Yes, what about
> 
> Pure Power Amp. Mode, full power output without volume control
> Has that feature been left out now?


Isn't this the same as turning the volume knob all the way up or am I missing something?


----------



## runningwitit

seamon said:


> Isn't this the same as turning the volume knob all the way up or am I missing something?


LMAO!!


----------



## Andykong

runningwitit said:


> So no full power mode?



Mode is independent from Class, you have select Standard mode (aka line in) or Power Amp mode (aka Pre in) from the mode switch.  In other word, you can set the C9 to Class A Power Amp mode, Class AB Power Amp mode, Class A Standard mode, or Class AB Standard mode.  That's four combination with two switches.  If you add the Timbre switch into the formular, you'll have 8 different combinations.


----------



## Andykong (Oct 26, 2020)

seamon said:


> Isn't this the same as turning the volume knob all the way up or am I missing something?




First of all, you can either use a source with fixed level line out, and keep the C9 in Standard mode, or use a preamplifier as source and keep the C9 in power amp mode, they covers different scenarios and are not mean to replace one another.   The Power amp mode will expand the C9 to work with different sources.

If we use the same source to compare them, will the two modes sounds different?   So far, the only DAP that has both line out and Pre out is N6ii with A02, so this is not a situation that you'll run into very often, but I can tell you that if I were to use IEM, they don't make a lot of different, but when I use full size headphones like HD800, the N6ii (A02) as preamp and C9 as power amp is superior.   We can get back to this when we have the detail specification and sales guide.  It is a bit difficult to explain when we don't have all the necessary figures and most of the readers in this forum probably does not have first hand experience between integrated amplifiers and pre/power amplifiers.


----------



## andersos

Andykong said:


> We can get back to this when we have the detail specification and sales guide.


Will we see that this week? And the price.


----------



## runningwitit

It would be a cool feature to include upgradable boards , as like the N6, later with this amp also...

How many others would love to see that happen?

Any possibilities?


----------



## seamon

runningwitit said:


> It would be a cool feature to include upgradable boards , as like the N6, later with this amp also...
> 
> How many others would love to see that happen?
> 
> Any possibilities?


What will you be upgrading? Pretty sure its just a straightforward amp using the Nutube modules, not much to upgrade here. Upgrades to N6ii made sense since they are replacing the DAC chip. If you wanna channel your inner component swapper, you can try rolling some 18650 batteries.


----------



## twister6

Spotted on @DUNU-Topsound FB page


----------



## hmscott

Andykong said:


> ...The HD6xx line is another matters, HD600 > HD650 > HD660 in terms of loading, so I would say C9 should handle HD660 alright, and HD600 is wait and see.


What about the Beyerdynamic 600 ohm headphones?  Can the C9 drive those to "reasonable" listening levels?


----------



## Andykong (Feb 15, 2021)

runningwitit said:


> It would be a cool feature to include upgradable boards , as like the N6, later with this amp also...
> 
> How many others would love to see that happen?
> 
> Any possibilities?



The C9 is nothing but analogue headphone amplifier, if we adopt a "board" approach, the only thing that left behind is the 4x18650 batteries  

Beside, the C9 is controlled by mechanical switches, it doesn't has firmware to facilitate changing in features and UI.

So this is technically impossible with C9.


----------



## runningwitit

This will be the first Cayin product I've ever tried and I hope it lives up to my high expectations!


----------



## Andykong

hmscott said:


> What about the Beyerdynamic 600 ohm headphones?  Can the C9 drive those to "reasonable" listening levels?



Unlikely    

Since I consider 300 ohm as marginal in several posts, so quite obvious I won't recommend using 600 ohms headphones with C9, this really won't do justice for the Beyers. Its OK if you want to use the Beyer at portable situation very occasionally, but definitely not recommend as the main setup.  

On the other hand, the range of "reasonable" varies a lot among different audiophiles, so my "reasonable" level is not necessarily relevant to your reasonable level, so maybe we need more impression from different users before we can arrive at a consent.


----------



## seamon

Andykong said:


> Unlikely
> 
> Since I consider 300 ohm as marginal in several posts, so quite obvious I won't recommend using 600 ohms headphones with C9, this really won't do justice for the Beyers. Its OK if you want to use the Beyer at portable situation very occasionally, but definitely not recommend as the main setup.
> 
> On the other hand, the range of "reasonable" varies a lot among different audiophiles, so my "reasonable" level is not necessarily relevant to your reasonable level, so maybe we need more impression from different users before we can arrive at a consent.


Let's see this thing try to drive a pair of He6


----------



## hmscott (Oct 28, 2020)

Andykong said:


> Unlikely
> 
> Since I consider 300 ohm as marginal in several posts, so quite obvious I won't recommend using 600 ohms headphones with C9, this really won't do justice for the Beyers. Its OK if you want to use the Beyer at portable situation very occasionally, but definitely not recommend as the main setup.
> 
> On the other hand, the range of "reasonable" varies a lot among different audiophiles, so my "reasonable" level is not necessarily relevant to your reasonable level, so maybe we need more impression from different users before we can arrive at a consent.


The DT990 600 ohm and DT880 600 ohm both nearly demand full power from my FiiO M15, even with "over-ear headphone" mode enabled in H Gain.

That is my "reasonable" use case from the FiiO M15 support of both Beyerdynamic 600 ohm headphones.  I can listen to both and enjoy both on the FiiO M15 portably.

Which of the new "tube" portable models from Cayin - C9 and N3Pro - could I use in a similar fashion?  Which would do better in that role?  Which one has the most power output to high impedance headphones on 3.5mm / 4.4mm?

When I heard "tube" amps I assumed... high impedance headphone support.

Perhaps it would be best to wait for someone(s) with hands on testing to report back what they hear...


seamon said:


> Let's see this thing try to drive a pair of He6


Earlier...


Andykong said:


> If power hungry headphones includes HiFiman HE6, Susvara, AB1266 Phi, AKG K1000, Audeze LCD4, ... sorry, we are not powerful enough for these.
> 
> _*IEMs remain as the primary target of C9 portable headphone amp.*_





Andykong said:


> In my personal experience, no portable amp can handle 600ohm headphones SATISFACTORY.  C9 probably is one of the better options, but the voltage swing of 600 ohm headphones are far from feasibly to battery driven amplifier.





Andykong said:


> ...For the record, I have test the C9 engineering sample with Hifiman HE6, the C9 can drive it to very loud when I feed a 1kHz test tone, but when I play a music passage,  it is flat and congested, the separation and dynamic are seriously lacking, let alone the emotions and climates of the music content.


And, that would be an example of C9 not "reasonably" able to support the HE6.  I'm hoping the DT990/DT880 600 ohm will be "reasonably" supported.

Thank you for your helpful responses Andy, and I look forward to trying out the C9 / N3Pro when they are available.


----------



## runningwitit

Respectfully hoping for 1000 to 1500 mw!


----------



## vkenz

hmscott said:


> The DT990 600 ohm and DT880 600 ohm both nearly demand full power from my FiiO M15, even with "over-ear headphone" mode enabled in H Gain.
> 
> That is my "reasonable" use case from the FiiO M15 support of both Beyerdynamic 600 ohm headphones.  I can listen to both and enjoy both on the FiiO M15 portably.
> 
> ...



Will this work with HD800S?


----------



## hmscott (Nov 2, 2020)

vkenz said:


> Will this work with HD800S?


Here is the best answer so far for the unreleased C9:


Andykong said:


> Any headphones that claimed  portable friendly should be within our reach and performed well, examples are Meze Empyrean, Focal Stella, Clear, Clear Professional, Audio Technica ATH-AP2000Ti, Denon 7200/9200, AKG K872, Dan Clark Aeon2, ...
> 
> We can keep expanding the potential list but it become less important as we dig deeper.  To me, the real test are Abyss Diana V2 and HD800.  If C9 perform reasonably well with these two headphones, that would clear the doubt of a lot of potential customers.  The Diana is pretty compact by design, so make it portable physically but it is relatively power hungry, I personally are looking forward to a portable solution.  On the other hand, the HD800 is one of the benchmarks, if not the benchmark.  I hope  C9 can pass these two tests.





> *I have tried HD800 briefly, with C9 Engineering Sample in 4.4mm power amp mode and N6ii balanced pre out as source.  To be honest I have heard better HD800 in many occasions, even within $2000 DAC+Amp Solution (just a convenient amount, I have no intention to indicate the price of C9), but if I were to describe the problem of C9 Engineering Sample and N6ii combo with HD800, "not enough power" is not the number 1 or 2 concern.*


It may be an evolving situation as Cayin tests various headphones and tunes the C9 - IDK if they are set for production or are still in development.  This kind of customer interaction helps them get a feel for the current demand and headphones to test - most are likely obvious like the HD800(s) HD820, but some might be outliers that define a subset not tested.

So far no indication of the time to release either... I might get an N3Pro to play with and see how it responds, but the C9 is the one that will have the power to support more headphones and 4.4mm "tubey" sound.


----------



## Whitigir

And somewhere in November, I am still waiting for the news about C9


----------



## runningwitit (Nov 11, 2020)

Come on Andy and touch base with us..
Waiting! Waiting! Waiting!!


----------



## Andykong (Nov 18, 2020)

This is the Headphone output specification of C9 Portable headphone Amplifier.   We measure the figures out of our production candidate sample, so it should be final, but we reserve the right to fine tune the figures after trail production run.

We are performing the battery duration test right now, will take some time as there are a lot of combination to cover, but I can quote two preliminary data for your reference.  Both battery duration readings are achieved at low gain, volume at around 10 o'clock position, with 32ohm loading and standard line in signal (2V for single-ended, 4V for balanced).  Since users can swap the C9 battery with two screws only, you can carry an extra set of batteries (4x18650) and double the battery duration if long continuous playback hours is important to you.

3.5mm Single-ended phone out, Class AB, Solid state timbre, around 15  hours
4.4mm Balanced phone out, Class AB, Solid state timbre, around 10 hours

Cayin will demonstrate C9 portable headphone amplifier, together with complete portable product lineup, at Bejing ZOL 5th Z-HiFi Show starting tomorrow (19-22 November), we can expect more photo and show impression from Chinese social media during the weekend.


----------



## seamon

Andykong said:


> This is the Headphone output specification of C9 Portable headphone Amplifier.   We measure the figures out of our production candidate sample, so it should be final, but we reserve the right to fine tune the figures after trail production run.
> 
> We are performing the battery duration test right now, will take some time as there are a lot of combination to cover, but I can quote two preliminary data for your reference.  Both battery duration readings are achieved at low gain, volume at around 10 o'clock position, with 32ohm loading and standard line in signal (2V for single-ended, 4V for balanced).  Since users can swap the C9 battery with two screws only, you can carry an extra set of batteries (4x18650) and double the battery duration if long continuous playback hours is important to you.
> 
> ...


Banger Specs. Price?


----------



## Andykong

seamon said:


> Banger Specs. Price?



We are still waiting for feedback from Supply chain, we don't have BOM cost right now, so we can't set the retail price at this stage.

We have enough component to start a trail production run very soon, but the supply chain is chaotic because of all sorts of delays in logistic and volatile component price in last 6 months.


----------



## jambaj0e

Andykong said:


> Should works alright with the exception of really demanding music.



Hi Andy,
Where in Los Angeles can we demo Cayin products? I'm loving my HA-300 and think this would be great, too. If you can talk to Alan at The Source AV, that'd be a great place!


----------



## muths66

Andykong said:


> This is the Headphone output specification of C9 Portable headphone Amplifier.   We measure the figures out of our production candidate sample, so it should be final, but we reserve the right to fine tune the figures after trail production run.
> 
> We are performing the battery duration test right now, will take some time as there are a lot of combination to cover, but I can quote two preliminary data for your reference.  Both battery duration readings are achieved at low gain, volume at around 10 o'clock position, with 32ohm loading and standard line in signal (2V for single-ended, 4V for balanced).  Since users can swap the C9 battery with two screws only, you can carry an extra set of batteries (4x18650) and double the battery duration if long continuous playback hours is important to you.
> 
> ...


both tube/SS same power output??


----------



## normie610

Andykong said:


> This is the Headphone output specification of C9 Portable headphone Amplifier.   We measure the figures out of our production candidate sample, so it should be final, but we reserve the right to fine tune the figures after trail production run.
> 
> We are performing the battery duration test right now, will take some time as there are a lot of combination to cover, but I can quote two preliminary data for your reference.  Both battery duration readings are achieved at low gain, volume at around 10 o'clock position, with 32ohm loading and standard line in signal (2V for single-ended, 4V for balanced).  Since users can swap the C9 battery with two screws only, you can carry an extra set of batteries (4x18650) and double the battery duration if long continuous playback hours is important to you.
> 
> ...



Wow that’s a lot of power! Can’t wait for the pricing


----------



## davidmolliere

The Power listed in specs is in Class AB mode? Class A is also of interest to me


----------



## Andykong (Nov 18, 2020)

muths66 said:


> both tube/SS same power output??






davidmolliere said:


> The Power listed in specs is in Class AB mode? Class A is also of interest to me




Yes, in our circuit design, both Tube and Solid State, Class A and Class AB are having very similar power rating, the difference are very minor so we didn't extend into different rows.  There is a drawback here, the battery will drain very fast on demanding settings (and Class A will be run very hot), but you have to wait till we publish more information on our product design and battery duration table for full details.


----------



## Giru

Could you atleast give us a ball park figure of what to expect in terms of the pricing?


----------



## davidmolliere

Andykong said:


> Yes, in our circuit design, both Tube and Solid State, Class A and Class AB are having very similar power rating, the difference are very minor so we didn't extend into different rows.  There is a drawback here, the battery will drain very fast on demanding settings (and Class A will be run very hot), but you have to wait till we publish more information on our product design and battery duration table for full details.



Excellent thanks Andy!


----------



## arijitroy2

I need this now!


----------



## davidmolliere

arijitroy2 said:


> I need this now!



+1 getting one for sure...

This is some nice driving power especially in Tube mode, up to par with say Micro BL (and iDSD Signature) which was unexpected!


----------



## SQ13

looks like the power can drive a 300ohm headphone.


----------



## audionewbi

I've read that it is possible to tune the nutube to sound like the 300B.


----------



## muths66

audionewbi said:


> I've read that it is possible to tune the nutube to sound like the 300B.


what you mean? c9 is sound like 300b tube sound?


----------



## Dim666

We still have no idea of the price and the release date ? I am interested to compare it to my Cypher Labs Theorem720 whose battery still lasts more than 20 hours ... despite the years


----------



## davidmolliere

Dim666 said:


> We still have no idea of the price and the release date ? I am interested to compare it to my Cypher Labs Theorem720 whose battery still lasts more than 20 hours ... despite the years



Andy gave some answers to that a bit earlier :



Andykong said:


> We are still waiting for feedback from Supply chain, we don't have BOM cost right now, so we can't set the retail price at this stage. We have enough component to start a trail production run very soon, but the supply chain is chaotic because of all sorts of delays in logistic and volatile component price in last 6 months.


----------



## Dim666

Thank you David


----------



## ipaddy

Barndoor said:


> Interesting battery choice.



I think it's a great choice. It's a common battery used in higher end flashlights, easily chargeable, and it means that you don't have to ever worry that you are one day going to have to make a decision either to send it somewhere to have battery replaced, or just dump it for a new model.


----------



## ipaddy

Andykong said:


> If power hungry headphones includes HiFiman HE6, Susvara, AB1266 Phi, AKG K1000, Audeze LCD4, ... sorry, we are not powerful enough for these.
> 
> IEMs remain as the primary target of C9 portable headphone amp.


How much power does this put out?


----------



## SQ13

ipaddy said:


> How much power does this put out?



for 300ohm
Bal = 320mw 
SE = 80mw


----------



## ipaddy

seamon said:


> Neutral or Bust!



A 3D effect like the the iFi iDSD Black Label has would have been nice. It works on some songs.


----------



## seamon

ipaddy said:


> A 3D effect like the the iFi iDSD Black Label has would have been nice. It works on some songs.


No thanks!


----------



## iFi audio

ipaddy said:


> A 3D effect like the the iFi iDSD Black Label has would have been nice. It works on some songs.



Thanks


----------



## seamon

iFi audio said:


> Thanks


Damn...


----------



## twister6

seamon said:


> Damn...



Yeah, but that was a reply from iFi, not Andy/Cayin


----------



## AtomAmp

This or the Phatlab Chimera?


----------



## ES_EF

AtomAmp said:


> This or the Phatlab Chimera?



Exact question I'm facing 

Hoping for a January release, maybe that's too optimistic


----------



## AtomAmp

ES_EF said:


> Exact question I'm facing
> 
> Hoping for a January release, maybe that's too optimistic


The Chimera D has a built in DAC too.


----------



## runningwitit

AtomAmp said:


> This or the Phatlab Chimera?


Why not both?

😆


----------



## AtomAmp

runningwitit said:


> Why not both?
> 
> 😆


Yeah, why not?  Just for kicks.


----------



## runningwitit

AtomAmp said:


> Yeah, why not?  Just for kicks.


I'm going to stick with the C9 as it has the most power and to me, looks better built from the pictures.


----------



## AtomAmp

runningwitit said:


> I'm going to stick with the C9 as it has the most power and to me, looks better built from the pictures.



Yeah.  But the Chimera D has a built in DAC.


----------



## arijitroy2

Same, I'll go for C9 too, I'll be using the Hiby R8 as the DAC and source anyway! Also, I wanted a Nutube based amp, since I missed out on AMP9 on DX220!!


----------



## davidmolliere

arijitroy2 said:


> Same, I'll go for C9 too, I'll be using the Hiby R8 as the DAC and source anyway! Also, I wanted a Nutube based amp, since I missed out on AMP9 on DX220!!



My thoughts exactly!


----------



## AtomAmp

davidmolliere said:


> My thoughts exactly!


This is really tempting.  I guess we're only waiting to know price now.


----------



## davidmolliere

AtomAmp said:


> This is really tempting.  I guess we're only waiting to know price now.



Yeah that's the last piece of info missing, getting one anyway now price might make that earlier or later...


----------



## normie610

arijitroy2 said:


> Same, I'll go for C9 too, I'll be using the Hiby R8 as the DAC and source anyway! Also, I wanted a Nutube based amp, since I missed out on AMP9 on DX220!!



Yep, I’m also planning to do this. And perhaps add the D9200 as well


----------



## arijitroy2

normie610 said:


> Yep, I’m also planning to do this. And perhaps add the D9200 as well


Do that, you won't regret at all!


----------



## 1TrickPony

Black Friday.

James Brown:  I got the feeling.


----------



## Andykong

I am packing up for the Taipei Headphone festival, this is the first time ever we have C9 on display at a Headphone event outside mainland China, stay tune for more pictures after the event.

If anyone get stuck in Taiwan because of the COVID-19, drop by Taipei during the weekend.


----------



## Timoteew

seanwee said:


> Is hoping for a 500-750 dollar price tag too much?
> 
> The whole thing looks good but I feel like having square cutouts for the nutubes would have been more aesthetically fitting.
> 
> Still, if it sounds good I wouldn't care


I quite like the oval cutouts - reminds me of Chord aesthetics.


----------



## runningwitit

I thought this was the price announcement we've been waiting for..

Disappointed!!


----------



## quisxx

runningwitit said:


> I thought this was the price announcement we've been waiting for..
> 
> Disappointed!!


Seeing as that festival ends on the 29th, I predict all info on the 30th


----------



## audionewbi

@Andykong Will it be possible for the end user to adjust the voltage supply to the nutube internally?


----------



## davidmolliere

Quite eager to get this as well, but let's be patient!


----------



## 3dit0r

I’m in the market for one of these with a DAC built-in as I love the concept of a SS/Tube portable. Has to work seamlessly with Mac/iPhone/Tidal MQA (or ideally Roon) for me, though... anything in the pipeline from you guys please?


----------



## Zhang Enyuan

I look forward to trying it C9  can be used 
*Empyrean*


----------



## AtomAmp

3dit0r said:


> I’m in the market for one of these with a DAC built-in as I love the concept of a SS/Tube portable. Has to work seamlessly with Mac/iPhone/Tidal MQA (or ideally Roon) for me, though... anything in the pipeline from you guys please?


The Phatlab Chimera D has a built-in DAC.


----------



## runningwitit

Sitting on the edge of my seat!!


----------



## davidmolliere

Yeah same here it's hard to resist the BF deals to save up for the C9 but it will be worth it!


----------



## runningwitit

davidmolliere said:


> Yeah same here it's hard to resist the BF deals to save up for the C9 but it will be worth it!


I sit in the same position, it's REALLY hard!!


----------



## 3dit0r

AtomAmp said:


> The Phatlab Chimera D has a built-in DAC.



Thanks! That's an interesting product but I can't see any MQA support, etc.?

I've been following Cayin for a while, hoping they would produce a tubed portable with DAC (and Tidal Masters, or Roon support) when used with a laptop or iPhone. The DAPs they produce are very nice, but unfortunately, don't allow streaming or just DAC use for hi-res with Apple products, as Apple's blutooth codec support is crappy.

Now I have had a Tidal sub for a few years I don't buy much music to own (and MQA is hard to actually buy in my country even if I wanted to!).

Maybe we'll get a C9DAC, like they made the C5DAC... but updated to include support for the above - anyway, I hope!


----------



## Bosk

Do we have a ballpark pricing figure yet, and any indication towards availability?


----------



## quisxx

Bosk said:


> Do we have a ballpark pricing figure yet, and any indication towards availability?


Not yet.


----------



## runningwitit

quisxx said:


> Not yet.


I hope we are offered a Head-fi early bird discount of some sort as reward.

In all actuality, we will be of the very first group to be reviewing our C9 purchases!
😁😪😞😅😉💻😁


----------



## s6323859

3dit0r said:


> I’m in the market for one of these with a DAC built-in as I love the concept of a SS/Tube portable. Has to work seamlessly with Mac/iPhone/Tidal MQA (or ideally Roon) for me, though... anything in the pipeline from you guys please?



N6ii support MQA, but it is x8-x16 decode not fully decode depend on borders.
And it can install roon app


----------



## 3dit0r

s6323859 said:


> N6ii support MQA, but it is x8-x16 decode not fully decode depend on borders.
> And it can install roon app



Very cool. Is that a tube amp in that one?


----------



## s6323859

3dit0r said:


> Very cool. Is that a tube amp in that one?



I’m not sure what you want.
If you want all in one dap(dac + tube amp), N6ii is not for you.
If you accept combinations(dap + mobile tube amp), N6ii + C9 is good for you.

Sorry for my poor English


----------



## 3dit0r

s6323859 said:


> I’m not sure what you want.
> If you want all in one dap(dac + tube amp), N6ii is not for you.
> If you accept combinations(dap + mobile tube amp), N6ii + C9 is good for you.
> 
> Sorry for my poor English



Your English is fine, thank you for helping!

What I’m after is something like a portable one-box DAC/Amp with a tube stage (I just tend to like the sound of tubes) and with the ability to play Tidal, including MQA, in some way. But it must be Apple ecosystem compatible. Ideally it would be Roon friendly, but that's not a dealbreaker. It could also be a DAP, if it had the above combinations, but I'd rather have a DAC/amp if possible, just due to probably longer lifespan in terms of DAP software not being supported after a while, etc...

Completely ideally, it would be fed by USB and not just wireless/bluetooth.

I have no idea if any such thing exists, though!


----------



## seamon

3dit0r said:


> Your English is fine, thank you for helping!
> 
> What I’m after is something like a portable one-box DAC/Amp with a tube stage (I just tend to like the sound of tubes) and with the ability to play Tidal, including MQA, in some way. But it must be Apple ecosystem compatible. Ideally it would be Roon friendly, but that's not a dealbreaker. It could also be a DAP, if it had the above combinations, but I'd rather have a DAC/amp if possible, just due to probably longer lifespan in terms of DAP software not being supported after a while, etc...
> 
> ...


It does not.


----------



## 3dit0r

seamon said:


> It does not.



Thanks, that's helpful and saves me a lot of legwork looking!

So, firstly, I hope that Cayin might produce such a device in the future...

Second, if I had to use a 2-box approach, what would be the best way to 'feed' one of the Cayin tube amps with the above requirements, do you think? I guess a device would need a line-out at the very least, which rules out many portable DAC/amps on the market...?


----------



## seamon

3dit0r said:


> Thanks, that's helpful and saves me a lot of legwork looking!
> 
> So, firstly, I hope that Cayin might produce such a device in the future...
> 
> Second, if I had to use a 2-box approach, what would be the best way to 'feed' one of the Cayin tube amps with the above requirements, do you think? I guess a device would need a line-out at the very least, which rules out many portable DAC/amps on the market...?


I am currently using a 3-box approach: Oriolus BD20 DAC -> BA300s mkii Tube Preamp -> BA20 Amp


----------



## 3dit0r

seamon said:


> I am currently using a 3-box approach: Oriolus BD20 DAC -> BA300s mkii Tube Preamp -> BA20 Amp



Thanks, I'll check those out - although 3 boxes might be getting a little 'unportable' for my needs!


----------



## SQ13

3dit0r said:


> Thanks, I'll check those out - although 3 boxes might be getting a little 'unportable' for my needs!



why don’t you check out cayin n8, it’s a dap with tube. i assume you can use it as a usb dac and decode full MQA though i am sure of Tidal and Apple ecosystem


----------



## s6323859 (Dec 1, 2020)

3dit0r said:


> Your English is fine, thank you for helping!
> 
> What I’m after is something like a portable one-box DAC/Amp with a tube stage (I just tend to like the sound of tubes) and with the ability to play Tidal, including MQA, in some way. But it must be Apple ecosystem compatible. Ideally it would be Roon friendly, but that's not a dealbreaker. It could also be a DAP, if it had the above combinations, but I'd rather have a DAC/amp if possible, just due to probably longer lifespan in terms of DAP software not being supported after a while, etc...
> 
> ...



iBasso DX220 with amp9 probably is what you want!

http://www.ibasso.com/product/amp9

Amp9 is a tube amp, and DX220 can install tidal.

But I don't know what "Apple ecosystem compatible" means?


----------



## AtomAmp

3dit0r said:


> Your English is fine, thank you for helping!
> 
> What I’m after is something like a portable one-box DAC/Amp with a tube stage (I just tend to like the sound of tubes) and with the ability to play Tidal, including MQA, in some way. But it must be Apple ecosystem compatible. Ideally it would be Roon friendly, but that's not a dealbreaker. It could also be a DAP, if it had the above combinations, but I'd rather have a DAC/amp if possible, just due to probably longer lifespan in terms of DAP software not being supported after a while, etc...
> 
> ...


Tje


3dit0r said:


> Your English is fine, thank you for helping!
> 
> What I’m after is something like a portable one-box DAC/Amp with a tube stage (I just tend to like the sound of tubes) and with the ability to play Tidal, including MQA, in some way. But it must be Apple ecosystem compatible. Ideally it would be Roon friendly, but that's not a dealbreaker. It could also be a DAP, if it had the above combinations, but I'd rather have a DAC/amp if possible, just due to probably longer lifespan in terms of DAP software not being supported after a while, etc...
> 
> ...


The only thing that comes close, AFAIK, if the Phatlab Chimera D, though no MQA I guess.


----------



## seamon

AtomAmp said:


> Tje
> 
> The only thing that comes close, AFAIK, if the Phatlab Chimera D, though no MQA I guess.


No Balanced Line in and 9028 is a very old DAC chip


----------



## AtomAmp

3dit0r said:


> Your English is fine, thank you for helping!
> 
> What I’m after is something like a portable one-box DAC/Amp with a tube stage (I just tend to like the sound of tubes) and with the ability to play Tidal, including MQA, in some way. But it must be Apple ecosystem compatible. Ideally it would be Roon friendly, but that's not a dealbreaker. It could also be a DAP, if it had the above combinations, but I'd rather have a DAC/amp if possible, just due to probably longer lifespan in terms of DAP software not being supported after a while, etc...
> 
> ...


The only thing that


seamon said:


> No Balanced Line in and 9028 is a very old DAC chip


But it would be used as a DAC/AMP so the digital input will be used more.  As to the 9028, yes, old.  They're probably going to update this.


----------



## seamon

AtomAmp said:


> The only thing that
> 
> But it would be used as a DAC/AMP so the digital input will be used more.  As to the 9028, yes, old.  They're probably going to update this.


I'd probably buy it if they updated it to AK4499 or ES9038 and added USB C charging and Input


----------



## AtomAmp

seamon said:


> I'd probably buy it if they updated it to AK4499 or ES9038 and added USB C charging and Input


That would be perfect.


----------



## audionewbi

It appears voltage supplied to the nutube can be adjusted. This is great news


----------



## bluestorm1992

audionewbi said:


> It appears voltage supplied to the nutube can be adjusted. This is great news


I also spotted some more related pics from them.


----------



## seamon

That looks like a SATA connector, are they using that for connecting the amp to the batteries?


----------



## Whitigir

seamon said:


> That looks like a SATA connector, are they using that for connecting the amp to the batteries?


Those are probably for connecting the Nu-Tubes.

I think those pots are for adjusting the Biases of these Nu Tubes.  It is kinda a typical adjustment for any Tubes amps.  Therefore, I don’t think it is recommended to tweaking it!

The board look good with a lot of good caps


----------



## Whitigir

Oh, I just noticed that the volume Pots are connecting Via Ribbon cables
Some people may want to modify and upgrade that .


----------



## 3dit0r

Thanks guys, looking into those options


----------



## ES_EF




----------



## Andykong (Dec 8, 2020)

We are one step closer.

We just completed our trail production, these C9 will go through more testing after aging, and then we need to finalise the packaging, accessories and documentations.  

January looks feasible, but sorry, we can't make it for Christmas, the logistic and component prices are very volatile and is not showing any positive signs in foreseeable future.


----------



## seamon

Andykong said:


> We are one step closer.
> 
> We just completed our trail production, these C9 will go through more testing after aging, and then we need to finalise the packaging, accessories and documentations.
> 
> January looks feasible, but sorry, we can't make it for Christmas, the logistic and component prices are very volatile and is not showing any positive signs in foreseeable future.


how much?


----------



## karmazynowy

Do you plan a DAC version of this?


----------



## Whitigir

karmazynowy said:


> Do you plan a DAC version of this?


While you are at it, what DAC ?


----------



## karmazynowy (Dec 10, 2020)

Whitigir said:


> While you are at it, what DAC ?



New product C9 + onboard DAC, so combo DAC/AMP of this. Im asking Cayin do they have plans for something like it.


----------



## musicinmymind

Andykong said:


> We are one step closer.
> 
> We just completed our trail production, these C9 will go through more testing after aging, and then we need to finalise the packaging, accessories and documentations.
> 
> January looks feasible, but sorry, we can't make it for Christmas, the logistic and component prices are very volatile and is not showing any positive signs in foreseeable future.



Looks bulky, transportable....may not be portable


----------



## s6323859

Andykong said:


> We are one step closer.
> 
> We just completed our trail production, these C9 will go through more testing after aging, and then we need to finalise the packaging, accessories and documentations.
> 
> January looks feasible, but sorry, we can't make it for Christmas, the logistic and component prices are very volatile and is not showing any positive signs in foreseeable future.



Where is my C9？


----------



## Whitigir

karmazynowy said:


> New product C9 + onboard DAC, so combo DAC/AMP of this. Im asking Cayin do they have plans for something like it.


I meant what DAC chips do you want ? AKM ? Sabres ? ADC ? BB ? Cirrus ?? R2R ?? And what price point are you asking it to be .  So at least Cayin has a clue


----------



## Andykong

3dit0r said:


> Thanks! That's an interesting product but I can't see any MQA support, etc.?
> 
> I've been following Cayin for a while, hoping they would produce a tubed portable with DAC (and Tidal Masters, or Roon support) when used with a laptop or iPhone. The DAPs they produce are very nice, but unfortunately, don't allow streaming or just DAC use for hi-res with Apple products, as Apple's blutooth codec support is crappy.
> 
> ...





karmazynowy said:


> Do you plan a DAC version of this?



Cayin has no plan to add DAC capability to C9.  We have learn our lesson from C5/C5DAC, portable DAC/Amp has a shorter product life when compare to the analogue only headphone amplifier.


----------



## seamon

Andykong said:


> Cayin has no plan to add DAC capability to C9.  We have learn our lesson from C5/C5DAC, portable DAC/Amp has a shorter product life when compare to the analogue only headphone amplifier.


How about a high end dac with a similar form factor?


----------



## Andykong

s6323859 said:


> Where is my C9？



Soon, very soon.   
Trail production is build for evaluation, 3C certification, show and shop demos, ... definitely not recommended for regular users.


----------



## Andykong

seamon said:


> How about a high end dac with a similar form factor?



We don't have any plan for that either.


----------



## Andykong

audionewbi said:


> @Andykong Will it be possible for the end user to adjust the voltage supply to the nutube internally?



Nope, the complete circuit is not accessible to end users, and there is no user-controlled buttons or knob to adjust the voltage supply to Nutube.


----------



## Andykong

seamon said:


> I am currently using a 3-box approach: Oriolus BD20 DAC -> BA300s mkii Tube Preamp -> BA20 Amp



But you still need a source to your 3-box stack?  Oriolus 1795D Bluetooth Audio Receiver and your mobile phone?


----------



## seamon

Andykong said:


> But you still need a source to your 3-box stack?  Oriolus 1795D Bluetooth Audio Receiver and your mobile phone?


Source is laptop


----------



## Andykong

seamon said:


> Source is laptop



I see, so this is a compact desktop system, that will work fine.


----------



## immortalsoul

When is the price going to be revealed? On the first post is mentioned late October,  we are in December and still don't know the price.  I hope the price to be between 500-700. I really believe that it is the correct price if they want to have some decent sales


----------



## runningwitit

We all want to know the price. I read these on every alert hoping to know the price and when.


----------



## seamon

Let's make bets on what the price will be


----------



## runningwitit

$999.99


----------



## seamon

$699.69


----------



## immortalsoul

699.99$


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Dec 13, 2020)

Let me try to do a bit of analysis, and then make my guess. 

In an earlier post, I referred to a conjecture that the price of C9 will be the difference between N6ii and N8; this is based on some roadshow feedback that N6ii+C9 delivers (at least) the same level of experience as N8. This brings the estimate to be around $2000.

However, I think the price is highly unlikely to be this high. As some of you have pointed out, no one will buy C9 at this price - If I have to pay essentially the same price of N8, why don't I just get the N8 instead of this chunky combo. Of course, you can argue that this two-piece combo gives you extra flexibility and so on, but I still think that very few customers will be willing to pay for the C9 at such a price...

Hence, my guess is similar to some of yours: around $1000-1500, making it somewhat in part with the price of the N6ii.

It could be that Cayin is more ambitious about this and want to give an even lower price. However, the supply chain bill of material (BOM) volatility has clearly put a huge challenge for them, so the final price may need to include some additional markup to absorb this volatility. I will be very happy if they can price it at around $700-800. It will surely make a wave in the market, but I don't want to raise my expectation too high and disappoint myself later. 

------------------------------------------

Shoot, I just saw a potential leak that they are planning to price it at 15000 RMB（$2300). I guess I will have to say goodbye to C9 at this price. This price will be even higher than the Hugo 2 sold in mainland China. At this price, I would rather buy their desktop tube amp HA-6A...


----------



## normie610

bluestorm1992 said:


> Shoot, I just saw a potential leak that they are planning to price it at 15000 RMB（$2300). I guess I will have to say goodbye to C9 at this price. This price will be even higher than the Hugo 2 sold in mainland China.



Wow! I hope that’s not case  perhaps the bill of material for the dual Korg tube is what’s causing the price to be that high.


----------



## runningwitit

I thought I read somewhere that they would not price it that high as it will give the benefits of a desktop amp?


----------



## bluestorm1992

runningwitit said:


> I thought I read somewhere that they would not price it that high as it will give the benefits of a desktop amp?


Let’s hope that they would not indeed price it that high.


----------



## immortalsoul

If the price is more than 700-800 I don't know how many people are going to buy the amp when with the same amount of money you can buy a decent dap


----------



## bluestorm1992

immortalsoul said:


> If the price is more than 700-800 I don't know how many people are going to buy the amp when with the same amount of money you can buy a decent dap


Exactly, at this price you can buy almost any flagship DAP either brand new or mint second-hand. It it unclear to me who they will be targeting at this price. For N6ii users wanting a further upgrade, the C9 at this price would be twice as expensive as the N6.

Let’s hope that my information source is wrong, although I have seen people talking about this price in two different Chinese forums.


----------



## seamon

normie610 said:


> Wow! I hope that’s not case  perhaps the bill of material for the dual Korg tube is what’s causing the price to be that high.


A Korg Tube is like $50 and that's retail.



bluestorm1992 said:


> Shoot, I just saw a potential leak that they are planning to price it at 15000 RMB（$2300). I guess I will have to say goodbye to C9 at this price. This price will be even higher than the Hugo 2 sold in mainland China. At this price, I would rather buy their desktop tube amp HA-6A...


I'm out.


----------



## normie610

immortalsoul said:


> If the price is more than 700-800 I don't know how many people are going to buy the amp when with the same amount of money you can buy a decent dap



Totally agree. Even the DX220 Max and Hiby R8 cost less and they already have very good power output for a portable device. Let’s hope that the pricing info is not accurate.


----------



## Zambu (Dec 14, 2020)

Wasn't that "15 000 RMB" rumor in this thread like a month or two ago? At least I remember reading such thing in some screenshot translated from Chinese and checking it in currency converter. Didn't even bother pointing it out in this thread since...well, didn't want to give any ideas to price it highly


----------



## Giru

Anything over 649usd and I'm not buying. Not a new one anyway.
2300usd is just plain unjustifiable.


----------



## seanwee

seamon said:


> Let's make bets on what the price will be


First thing I did


seanwee said:


> Is hoping for a 500-750 dollar price tag too much?


----------



## Zachik

@Andykong should award 1 unit to the 1st person that guesses the exact price 
Also, if the price is indeed $2300 - that 1 free unit might be the ONLY unit leaving Cayin's warehouse... Just saying...


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Dec 14, 2020)

Zachik said:


> @Andykong should award 1 unit to the 1st person that guesses the exact price
> Also, if the price is indeed $2300 - that 1 free unit might be the ONLY unit leaving Cayin's warehouse... Just saying...


Then we will have that one unit in an audition tour for all the members in this thread. Just saying...


----------



## Dim666

Crazy price..


----------



## davidmolliere

Price is not confirmed yet, we're talking rumors here so let's give the time for the actual price to come out


----------



## seamon

davidmolliere said:


> Price is not confirmed yet, we're talking rumors here so let's give the time for the actual price to come out


But I already bought a Pitchfork.


----------



## runningwitit

I told myself $1399 is the highest I will go.


----------



## bluestorm1992

runningwitit said:


> I told myself $1399 is the highest I will go.


Same here. I really don’t think a lot of people will be interested in it any more if it is priced higher than DAPs like the Hiby R8.


----------



## musicinmymind

seamon said:


> But I already bought a Pitchfork.


What is Pitchfork?


----------



## CANiSLAYu

Implying he's ready when a high price is announced.


----------



## twister6

CANiSLAYu said:


> Implying he's ready when a high price is announced.



I guess everybody is assuming "when" rather than "if" ?


----------



## CANiSLAYu

twister6 said:


> I guess everybody is assuming "when" rather than "if" ?


@seamon is convinced since he already bought the pitchfork


----------



## seamon

CANiSLAYu said:


> @seamon is convinced since he already bought the pitchfork


And they charge 15% restocking fee to return it


----------



## Zachik

runningwitit said:


> I told myself $1399 is the highest I will go.





bluestorm1992 said:


> Same here. I really don’t think a lot of people will be interested in it any more if it is priced higher than DAPs like the Hiby R8.


OK... so my official guess is $1449


----------



## ES_EF

$750 + I'll get a Cayin tattoo, my final offer.


----------



## seamon

I offer tree fiddy and this bag of chips


----------



## jmills8

350 ? What ?


----------



## seamon

jmills8 said:


> 350 ? What ?


It's a South Park reference.


----------



## s6323859

I guess 1700 ~ 1800 USD
11000 ~ 13000 RMB
Haha


----------



## donaldm2k

I have a HiFiman Arya planar magnetic and I'm looking for quality portable amp. iFi micro iDSD has MQA but thinking I might not miss it
if I have a class A/B amp in the C9. Anyone with opinions on this ?


----------



## runningwitit

Can you come and tell us anything at all?
Guesstimate so we will have some kind of idea please?


----------



## Andykong

runningwitit said:


> Can you come and tell us anything at all?
> Guesstimate so we will have some kind of idea please?



Well, other then NCND "neither confirm nor deny" regarding the retail price of C9, there isn't much going on in past two weeks.   The trial production is all green light, we are still waiting for the bulk parts to arrive, there were a lot of delay, not until we have all the parts in place, we can't schedule a production timetable, and cannot confirm the release date.   

Once we confirmed the release date, we'll work backward on our marketing schedule.

If anyone have a question regarding the technical or application issues of C9, throw it out, I'll try my best to explain.


----------



## normie610

Andykong said:


> Well, other then NCND "neither confirm nor deny" regarding the retail price of C9, there isn't much going on in past two weeks.   The trial production is all green light, we are still waiting for the bulk parts to arrive, there were a lot of delay, not until we have all the parts in place, we can't schedule a production timetable, and cannot confirm the release date.
> 
> Once we confirmed the release date, we'll work backward on our marketing schedule.
> 
> If anyone have a question regarding the technical or application issues of C9, throw it out, I'll try my best to explain.



Any early estimate on what the battery life is going to be? Also, CMIIW, we need to toggle to “Pre” mode if we‘re going to use it as a headphone amp?


----------



## seanwee

Andykong said:


> Well, other then NCND "neither confirm nor deny" regarding the retail price of C9, there isn't much going on in past two weeks.   The trial production is all green light, we are still waiting for the bulk parts to arrive, there were a lot of delay, not until we have all the parts in place, we can't schedule a production timetable, and cannot confirm the release date.
> 
> Once we confirmed the release date, we'll work backward on our marketing schedule.
> 
> If anyone have a question regarding the technical or application issues of C9, throw it out, I'll try my best to explain.


Would you say that the C9 is a tuned and upgraded version of the tube section of the N8 or does it a completely new design philosophy altogether?

Perhaps a design that couldn't be fully realised in the N8 but is made possible with a transportable amp design that has more space and power.


----------



## bombmanxl

😂


----------



## s6323859

Andykong said:


> Well, other then NCND "neither confirm nor deny" regarding the retail price of C9, there isn't much going on in past two weeks.   The trial production is all green light, we are still waiting for the bulk parts to arrive, there were a lot of delay, not until we have all the parts in place, we can't schedule a production timetable, and cannot confirm the release date.
> 
> Once we confirmed the release date, we'll work backward on our marketing schedule.
> 
> If anyone have a question regarding the technical or application issues of C9, throw it out, I'll try my best to explain.



Is N6ii A02 big different with A01? Would you recommend N6ii(A01) user buy A02?

How long is C9 running with 100% battery in different mode?


----------



## Andykong

normie610 said:


> Any early estimate on what the battery life is going to be? Also, CMIIW, we need to toggle to “Pre” mode if we‘re going to use it as a headphone amp?



I just wrote the first draft of C9 user manual, and this is the section regarding PRE mode:






For battery duration, Vacuum tube option last between 5.5hours (Balanced, Class A) to 9.5 hours (Single-ended, Class AB).  Solid State last between 7 hours (Balanced, Class A) to 15 hours (Single-ended, Class AB).


----------



## Andykong (Feb 15, 2021)

s6323859 said:


> Is N6ii A02 big different with A01? Would you recommend N6ii(A01) user buy A02?
> 
> How long is C9 running with 100% battery in different mode?



I have provided rough figures in previous response, if you need detail breakdown in different mode/condition, you need to wait till the full announcement when C9 is available for sale.

So far I never recommend users to buy a Audio Motherboard because one is better then other, I don't  agree with this approach, none of our Audio Motherboard is an upgrade option to the other.

Regarding A02, I am not sure if there is any available in the market, we have sold out our A02 very quickly.  As soon as the AKM fire settle down, the retail price of the two AK4497 chipset is more expensive than the cost of A02 audio motherboard, so it is definitely impossible to make A02 Audio Motherboard again, and dealer just grab them ASAP.


----------



## normie610

Andykong said:


> I just wrote the first draft of C9 user manual, and this is the section regarding PRE mode:
> 
> 
> 
> For battery duration, Vacuum tube option last between 5.5hours (Balanced, Class A) to 9.5 hours (Single-ended, Class AB).  Solid State last between 7 hours (Balanced, Class A) to 15 hours (Single-ended, Class AB).



Thanks Andy. Is the toggle for “Line & Pre” is actually referring to the *input* rather than the output? So if we want to connect a DAP from its LO port and have the C9 function as a normal headphone amp, we should toggle to Line instead?


----------



## s6323859

Andykong said:


> So far I never recommend users to buy a Audio Motherboard because one is better then other, I don't  agree with this approach, none of our Audio Motherboard is an upgrade option to the other.



Yes, I agree that so I use "different" word. I asked the question because there is not any bundle of N6ii(A02) on taobao, A02 sell independent, and A02 is no phone out. it looks like it is specialized for C9.


----------



## Andykong

s6323859 said:


> Yes, I agree that so I use "different" word. I asked the question because there is not any bundle of N6ii(A02) on taobao, A02 sell independent, and A02 is no phone out. it looks like it is specialized for C9.



I'd say A02 is the most appropriate Audio Motherboard if you were to use N6ii with C9, but there are other application that initiate us to develop A02: using N6ii for deskfi with active speaker, serve as front-end for speaker-based home audio system, ...


----------



## Andykong

normie610 said:


> Thanks Andy. Is the toggle for “Line & Pre” is actually referring to the *input* rather than the output? So if we want to connect a DAP from its LO port and have the C9 function as a normal headphone amp, we should toggle to Line instead?



Well, C9 is a portable headphone amplifier, it only has one type of output: headphone. It is kind of strange to expect C9 offers line out and pre-amp output, be reminded that it doesn't has a DAC built-in and can only accept analogue audio input (i.e., line or preamp input).

You are correct, if you want to connect a DAP from its LO port and have the C9 function as a normal headphone amp, you should use the C9 in LINE input mode, which is the default operation mode of C9.    On the other hand, if your DAP has a high quality low-noise, low distortion phone out, maybe you can try using the phone out as "preamp" and connect to C9 in PRE-amp input mode.  This is particularly useful when someone is using a DAP without a balanced line out (i.e., over 90% of DAP products) but want to use C9 in fully balanced configuration.  

When you have the opportunity to audition C9, there is no harm to try both and find out which works better for what headphones, right?


----------



## runningwitit

Will it be possible to use the C9 as an in between? Clearly stating, for use between the source (dx220 max) to C9 to desktop dac/amp for utilization of tubes?


----------



## Andykong

runningwitit said:


> Will it be possible to use the C9 as an in between? Clearly stating, for use between the source (dx220 max) to C9 to desktop dac/amp for utilization of tubes?



How do you connect your DAP to your desktop DAC/Amp? by USB? Coaxial?   or have you bypassed the digital section of your DAC/Amp and connect them with a pair of RCA interconnect?

My educated guess is, when you connect your DAP to a desktop DAC/Amp, you are transmitting bitstream through a digital cable, you can only insert DDC type of equipment in between, you can't add any analogue device between your DAP and your desktop DAC/Amp.


----------



## andersos

Will the price be revealed this month?


----------



## Zyma

I have a reliable proof that price will be around 1,900-2,000 $ because in it's price announce is 64,900 THB in local currency or around 2,100 $.


----------



## s6323859

Zyma said:


> I have a reliable proof that price will be around 1,900-2,000 $ because in it's price announce is 64,900 THB in local currency or around 2,100 $.



Really? 64900THB is really really expensive... this is almost a high end desktop headphone amp price


----------



## seanwee

Zyma said:


> I have a reliable proof that price will be around 1,900-2,000 $ because in it's price announce is 64,900 THB in local currency or around 2,100 $.


Hopefully not. That'd be way too much for just a portable amp.


----------



## seamon

Zyma said:


> I have a reliable proof that price will be around 1,900-2,000 $ because in it's price announce is 64,900 THB in local currency or around 2,100 $.


Alright time to bring out my pitchfork


----------



## normie610

Zyma said:


> I have a reliable proof that price will be around 1,900-2,000 $ because in it's price announce is 64,900 THB in local currency or around 2,100 $.



Wow....I’m out then


----------



## jmills8

normie610 said:


> Wow....I’m out then


----------



## runningwitit

Definitely will be a while before I buy that amp if that really is the price range. Probably, and this is how it goes, a new one will be available at my time of purchase!

What an ugly game!!


----------



## Andykong

andersos said:


> Will the price be revealed this month?



I sure hope so.  Unfortunately, one critical part (the ALPS volume control) is still hanging around in the Northern part of China, there is no delivery date because of the lockdown in recent outbreak.  Until we receive all the parts and ready to build, we don't have a confirmed launch date, and formal product announcement, including price and complete technical details, will be on hold.


----------



## Bosk

A strange mental picture appears whenever I drop into this thread.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Cayin said they just got all the parts they need for production. The formal announcement for the launching time and price should happen in any moment. Would this be a moment of surprise or disappointment? Honestly I am not that positive for its price...


----------



## seamon

bluestorm1992 said:


> Cayin said they just got all the parts they need for production. The formal announcement for the launching time and price should happen in any moment. Would this be a moment of surprise or disappointment? Honestly I am not that positive for its price...


My Pitchfork is ready


----------



## bluestorm1992

seamon said:


> My Pitchfork is ready


Your pitchfork must have passed its return period now, so let’s use it anyway.


----------



## Zachik

bluestorm1992 said:


> Your pitchfork must have passed its return period now, so let’s use it anyway.


Amazon return period for any item bought after Oct. 1, 2020 has been extended to Jan. 31, 2021 - so possibly still within return period


----------



## Avian

Andykong said:


> I sure hope so.  Unfortunately, one critical part (the ALPS volume control) is still hanging around in the Northern part of China



Maybe, for a better global result, improving the value for money, i would suggest a DACT attenuator. There's no comparison


----------



## audionewbi

2799 SGD.


----------



## seanwee

audionewbi said:


> 2799 SGD.


Christ


----------



## bluestorm1992

audionewbi said:


> 2799 SGD.


So 2100 USD, well...


----------



## seanwee

@audionewbi source?


----------



## seamon

audionewbi said:


> 2799 SGD.


Where's my damn Pitchfork


----------



## audionewbi

Source was a brief post that was removed before I could screen cap. If you google cayin c9 preorder, the cache is still there.

Its clear C9 is going after WA8 and Phatlab Phantsay II. Those are both tube amp, albiet not exactly the same as C9. Both have transformer design, WA8 having a added bonus DAC feature, and those transfomers are not easy to design.


----------



## seanwee

audionewbi said:


> Source was a brief post that was removed before I could screen cap. If you google cayin c9 preorder, the cache is still there.
> 
> Its clear C9 is going after WA8 and Phatlab Phantsay II. Those are both tube amp, albiet not exactly the same as C9. Both have transformer design, WA8 having a added bonus DAC feature, and those transfomers are not easy to design.


Basically the C9 is grossly over priced then


----------



## seanwee

Well I'll be damned






Link


----------



## fukzen

2799 sgd. o wew.


----------



## seamon

seamon said:


> Cayin C9 price $2000 confirmed.


Oh damn I called it


----------



## Zachik

Hopefully, 50-60% off on BF21?


----------



## Dim666

Zachik said:


> Hopefully, 50-60% off on BF21?


You believe it...


----------



## Vitaly2017

Now there will be a dac soon to compliment the amp 😜🤩
So call it a 4 000$ transportable desktop on batteries?

I see in this cayin went a different route rather make a dmpz1 or dx 220max or M30. Cayin went with 2 units and made things splitted. I am more then sure a dac unit is on its way 🧐


----------



## bluestorm1992

Vitaly2017 said:


> Now there will be a dac soon to compliment the amp 😜🤩
> So call it a 4 000$ transportable desktop on batteries?
> 
> I see in this cayin went a different route rather make a dmpz1 or dx 220max or M30. Cayin went with 2 units and made things splitted. I am more then sure a dac unit is on its way 🧐


Still, spending $2000 on a standalone AMP is outside of most people's range. With a good DAP to serve as the source, the combo easily surpasses some ultra-high-end DAPs like LP P6 pro and LPGT Ti.


----------



## Vitaly2017

bluestorm1992 said:


> Still, spending $2000 on a standalone AMP is outside of most people's range. With a good DAP to serve as the source, the combo easily surpasses some ultra-high-end DAPs like LP P6 pro and LPGT Ti.




But thats the goal 🤩 the best sound 😃
I definitely would buy, add the small dap no need flagship and voila.


----------



## Vitaly2017

bluestorm1992 said:


> Still, spending $2000 on a standalone AMP is outside of most people's range. With a good DAP to serve as the source, the combo easily surpasses some ultra-high-end DAPs like LP P6 pro and LPGT Ti.




By the way, you can skip the dac lol buy M8 and the C9 this gonna be a bomb in sound!


----------



## Bosk

Interesting decision to bring out a dedicated portable amplifier in that price range. Performance will need to be through the roof to tempt anyone outside a very small niche.


----------



## twister6

or if you look at it that way, N6ii + A02 (or E02, considering you can buy N6ii with any default dac/amp board) + C9 will cost you as much or even less than N8 BB.  So, if the performance of that stack is better than N8 BB and also considering it will be android streaming stack, perhaps it will make sense to some?


----------



## bluestorm1992

twister6 said:


> or if you look at it that way, N6ii + A02 (or E02, considering you can buy N6ii with any default dac/amp board) + C9 will cost you as much or even less than N8 BB.  So, if the performance of that stack is better than N8 BB and also considering it will be android streaming stack, perhaps it will make sense to some?


I think this is exactly how they do the pricing. The thing is N8 is already incredibly expensive...


----------



## davidmolliere

Well, this is quite higher than expected honestly... at this price I'd have a long hard decision to make against something like iFi Audio Pro iCAN (which has tubes and SS also) a different beast altogether more desktop but still... that takes you into among the best desktop territory prices. Not saying I won't go C9 but still, this will delay my plans and make me think...


----------



## audionewbi

Not to go off topic, but that ifi diablo looks to be amazing value right now.


----------



## davidmolliere

audionewbi said:


> Not to go off topic, but that ifi diablo looks to be amazing value right now.



There is that as well although I stopped at teaser that didn't reveal much...


----------



## normie610

davidmolliere said:


> Well, this is quite higher than expected honestly... at this price I'd have a long hard decision to make against something like iFi Audio Pro iCAN (which has tubes and SS also) a different beast altogether more desktop but still... that takes you into among the best desktop territory prices. Not saying I won't go C9 but still, this will delay my plans and make me think...



Or might as well go for Shanling M30, it has Korg tubes as well


----------



## Xinlisupreme

davidmolliere said:


> Well, this is quite higher than expected honestly... at this price I'd have a long hard decision to make against something like iFi Audio Pro iCAN (which has tubes and SS also) a different beast altogether more desktop but still... that takes you into among the best desktop territory prices. Not saying I won't go C9 but still, this will delay my plans and make me think...



I Quote M30 but will be expensive and having M8 I will chose an amplifier maybe portable like Romi Audio BX2+ that provide almost 6W on 32ohm😜
Anyway C9 looks awesome😍


----------



## Zachik

Zachik said:


> Hopefully, 50-60% off on BF21?





Dim666 said:


> You believe it...


I do not believe it, but one can always hope...


----------



## seanwee

twister6 said:


> or if you look at it that way, N6ii + A02 (or E02, considering you can buy N6ii with any default dac/amp board) + C9 will cost you as much or even less than N8 BB.  So, if the performance of that stack is better than N8 BB and also considering it will be android streaming stack, perhaps it will make sense to some?


Way too expensive for most in this thread that were hoping to get it unfortunately.


----------



## runningwitit

At that price, I may save a little more and a ha 6.  Which I would probably like more?


----------



## Bosk

twister6 said:


> or if you look at it that way, N6ii + A02 (or E02, considering you can buy N6ii with any default dac/amp board) + C9 will cost you as much or even less than N8 BB.  So, if the performance of that stack is better than N8 BB and also considering it will be android streaming stack, perhaps it will make sense to some?


Hi twister6, I've loved reading your reviews for many years now.

I think you're right. My passion is single-DD earphones and no modern DAP I've heard has a high-enough quality headphone amp to drive them to their full potential. I've yet to hear the DX220MAX or Kann Alpha and imagine they'd have a bit more oomph than usual, but earphones particularly those with DDs can scale far better than people think and benefit enormously from the addition of an standalone amp, and that's without even bringing the magic of tubes into the conversation.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least to learn a N6ii/A02/C9 type system could sonically surpass an SP2000 alone (or equivalent) quite easily. Cayin's problem is you don't need to re-wire the brains of most humans to happily spend large amounts on flashy electronic devices with small screens because Apple & co. have done all the hard work for them. Convincing them to spend thousands on an analog amplifier when no shortage of community "experts" will tell them a DAP offers all the power they need is another story

Besides they may even be correct when it comes to all-BA earphones, or at the very least any money spent on an amp in that case probably won't yield full benefit just as cash spent on cables to feed single-DD earphones won't be as well-spent as if they were all-BA. Removing true enthusiasts from the equation, I also wonder how hard Covid has hit the luxury goods market and whether Cayin would've chosen to pursue this project had the pandemic arrived before they started.

Nonetheless I'm very earger to read future C9 impressions. Perhaps they can raise the bar of portable amp performance?


----------



## arijitroy2

Sad thing with the price is, I'll most likely end up buying it anyway!


----------



## MSA1133

Yeah, it's high unfortunately, but don't knock it till you hear it.  

Or at least read some feedback about the performance from trusted sources.


----------



## Zambu (Jan 13, 2021)

Yeah it's a hard sell for sure, when even a community like this is a bit hesitant or at least needs a whole lot of reviews to even consider it.
It's kind of peculiar that Cayins N3Pro (released few months back) is even considered somewhat underpriced maybe, and then there's these kind of luxury offerings (along with desktop tube amps and such).
I'll mostly keep my eye out for offerings in the 500-1200 dollar range. Until then, back to enjoying my cheaper portable tubes 
(regardless, this thread should be an interesting read once things move forward a bit more)


----------



## Whitigir

Zambu said:


> Yeah it's a hard sell for sure, when even a community like this is a bit hesitant or at least needs a whole lot of reviews to even consider it.
> It's kind of peculiar that Cayins N3Pro (released few months back) is even considered somewhat underpriced maybe, and then there's these kind of luxury offerings (along with desktop tube amps and such).
> I'll mostly keep my eye out for offerings in the 500-1200 dollar range. Until then, back to enjoying my cheaper portable tubes


Well said!


----------



## DarginMahkum

Anyone seen this?


----------



## DaYooper

DarginMahkum said:


> Anyone seen this?



I just want to know what are the screwdriver and spare screws for?


----------



## jmills8

DaYooper said:


> I just want to know what are the screwdriver and spare screws for?


Bet to open it and change tubes.


----------



## Jeffyue

jmills8 said:


> Bet to open it and change tubes.



Guess more likely for changing battery?

Anyway, I remember somebody (probably Andy) mentioned C9 is not meant for driving full-size headphones.  Just wonder for IEM users if there is need for such a powerful output.

We may say this is a portable amp, but I believe using a DX220MAX, N8 or SP2000 would give you a similar power output (at least for IEM user), without the need for an extra DAP.

And the price...🤦


----------



## DaYooper

Jeffyue said:


> Guess more likely for changing battery?


Now that I look through the gallery that seems to be it.


----------



## jmills8

Jeffyue said:


> Guess more likely for changing battery?
> 
> Anyway, I remember somebody (probably Andy) mentioned C9 is not meant for driving full-size headphones.  Just wonder for IEM users if there is need for such a powerful output.
> 
> ...


Im sure it can EASILY push most full size headphones. The SP2000 cannot push most full size headphones to their full potential.


----------



## arijitroy2

I'm hoping to use this as a preamp between R8 and BX2 Plus, hopefully that is achievable!!


----------



## Pictograms

arijitroy2 said:


> I'm hoping to use this as a preamp between R8 and BX2 Plus, hopefully that is achievable!!


Well at least it comes with all the accessories you need to use it... it does seem strange that given the price it was mentioned that a desktop amp would be better for full sized headphones (unless I’m remembering wrong)


----------



## arijitroy2

Pictograms said:


> Well at least it comes with all the accessories you need to use it... it does seem strange that given the price it was mentioned that a desktop amp would be better for full sized headphones (unless I’m remembering wrong)


I remember Andy saying it wasn't neant to drive hard to drive headphones. I have D9200 so it's easy to drive, but might get an open-back planar later hence the preamp option!


----------



## Pictograms

Andykong said:


> This is exactly our thinking.  If full size headphones are your number 1 priority, then please go for a desktop amplifier.  Portable amplifier, even as powerful as C9, will not outperform desktop amplifier at the same price, so why should we put full size headphone as primary priority?
> 
> We are going to make C9 as good as it can with IEM, and in our experience, it will sound nice with a lot of headphones even when we are not aiming at them directly.


Ah, this part... I guess it’s not that weird to say a desktop rig would be better


----------



## DarginMahkum

arijitroy2 said:


> I remember Andy saying it wasn't neant to drive hard to drive headphones. I have D9200 so it's easy to drive, but might get an open-back planar later hence the preamp option!



Any specs, though? I haven't seen any output power specs.


----------



## Pictograms

DarginMahkum said:


> Any specs, though? I haven't seen any output power specs.


Some were posted... just can’t find them right now


----------



## Pictograms

Pictograms said:


> Some were posted... just can’t find them right now





Andykong said:


> This is the Headphone output specification of C9 Portable headphone Amplifier.   We measure the figures out of our production candidate sample, so it should be final, but we reserve the right to fine tune the figures after trail production run.
> 
> We are performing the battery duration test right now, will take some time as there are a lot of combination to cover, but I can quote two preliminary data for your reference.  Both battery duration readings are achieved at low gain, volume at around 10 o'clock position, with 32ohm loading and standard line in signal (2V for single-ended, 4V for balanced).  Since users can swap the C9 battery with two screws only, you can carry an extra set of batteries (4x18650) and double the battery duration if long continuous playback hours is important to you.
> 
> ...



Here


----------



## arijitroy2

DarginMahkum said:


> Any specs, though? I haven't seen any output power specs.


I did see them in this thread some monthd back, let me search.


----------



## DarginMahkum (Jan 13, 2021)

Pictograms said:


> Here



2600 mW @ 32 ohm is more than plenty to properly drive 95% of HPs out there.


----------



## Pictograms

DarginMahkum said:


> 2600 mW @ 32 ohm is more than plenty to drive 95% of HPs out there.


Yea it’s more than my Ha-1a had 1400 vs 2600 @32ohm
So it’s interesting to have a qualifier that a desktop amp would be better with full sized phones


----------



## DarginMahkum

Pictograms said:


> Yea it’s more than my Ha-1a had 1400 vs 2600 @32ohm
> So it’s interesting to have a qualifier that a desktop amp would be better with full sized phones



Andy is either being humble or avoiding any nasty Susvara owners.


----------



## bluestorm1992

DarginMahkum said:


> Andy is either being humble or avoiding any nasty Susvara owners.


Imagine one day we will be able to properly drive Susvara with portable gears.


----------



## Pictograms

DarginMahkum said:


> Andy is either being humble or avoiding any nasty Susvara owners.


Lol could be, the biggest difference would be with high ohm headphones I would assume?


----------



## bluestorm1992

These discussions make me want the C9 so much now, even at this price. Maybe I should have withheld my purchase of Hugo 2 and buy this instead.


----------



## arijitroy2

DarginMahkum said:


> Andy is either being humble or avoiding any nasty Susvara owners.


You shouldn't be here!! You should be enjoying the awesome desktop setup you have


----------



## arijitroy2

bluestorm1992 said:


> Imagine one day we will be able to properly drive Susvara with portable gears.


That's the dream!


----------



## jmills8

bluestorm1992 said:


> These discussions make me want the C9 so much now, even at this price. Maybe I should have withheld my purchase of Hugo 2 and buy this instead.


Hugo2 is weak , weak for use with headphones. But a nice dac.


----------



## DarginMahkum

arijitroy2 said:


> You shouldn't be here!! You should be enjoying the awesome desktop setup you have



It is that horrible loop. The more I listen to it, the more music I would like to listen to. Then I start wondering if I can replicate it as a portable so the music never stops.


----------



## normie610

bluestorm1992 said:


> These discussions make me want the C9 so much now, even at this price. Maybe I should have withheld my purchase of Hugo 2 and buy this instead.



Well you can always sell Hugo 2 and get the C9 instead


----------



## bluestorm1992

normie610 said:


> Well you can always sell Hugo 2 and get the C9 instead


I want both.


----------



## normie610

bluestorm1992 said:


> I want both.



That’s easy then


----------



## Jeffyue

bluestorm1992 said:


> Imagine one day we will be able to properly drive Susvara with portable gears.





bluestorm1992 said:


> Imagine one day we will be able to properly drive Susvara with portable gears.



Maybe something like this?

SG$ 128.90 | E1DA  Susumu2000 edition 9038SG3 2.5mm balanced input USB DAC Headphone Amp with susumu precise 0.1% resistors
https://a.aliexpress.com/_ms17f8d

Heard that it has no problem driving even HD800. Have ordered one just for fun since it cost only 1/20 of a C9...


----------



## bluestorm1992

Jeffyue said:


> Maybe something like this?
> 
> SG$ 128.90 | E1DA  Susumu2000 edition 9038SG3 2.5mm balanced input USB DAC Headphone Amp with susumu precise 0.1% resistors
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_ms17f8d
> ...


That’s impressive! Small dongles are getting really good these days.


----------



## twister6

Jeffyue said:


> Maybe something like this?
> 
> SG$ 128.90 | E1DA  Susumu2000 edition 9038SG3 2.5mm balanced input USB DAC Headphone Amp with susumu precise 0.1% resistors
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_ms17f8d
> ...



Hang on, that dongle has output 340mW @ 32 ohm which roughly translates into 36 mW @ 300 ohm based on its 3.3V output.  And we are probably not even talking about a real measurement under a load, just a calculation on paper.  So, how is 36mW or even less be enough to drive efficiently 300 ohm HD800?


----------



## arijitroy2

twister6 said:


> Hang on, that dongle has output 340mW @ 32 ohm which roughly translates into 36 mW @ 300 ohm based on its 3.3V output.  And we are probably not even talking about a real measurement under a load, just a calculation on paper.  So, how is 36mW or even less be enough to drive efficiently 300 ohm HD800?


I think he was being sarcastic!!


----------



## twister6

arijitroy2 said:


> I think he was being sarcastic!!



As a reviewer I hear this every week, so I know some people really mean it lol!


----------



## dannyvstheworld

China MSRP was just announced - CNY 12999. Approximately USD 2000 (or should I say USD 1999).


----------



## Andykong (Jan 14, 2021)

*Cayin C9: TOTL Portable Headphone Amplifier*

Cayin was founded in 1993 and is one of the largest audio tube amplifier development and manufacturing facilities in the world. We have developed over 400 products to date, ranging from CD players to speakers, all of which provide the same high-quality benchmark, but our amplifiers have been particularly well-received within the audio community. That's why when we venture into Personal Audio back in 2013, we started with C5, a portable headphone amplifier, because amplifier is always our purest achievement.

The N8 DAP marked our milestone in Personal Audio and laid down the foundation for a flagship portable headphone amplifier. The 2018 N8 was Cayin’s first cost-no-objective product in Personal Audio, but that does not mean we can ignore the scientific (physic and electronic engineering) constraints, so by the end of the N8 R&D, we pondered: what if we can find a way to relax the physical constraints? What if when we have more space, more battery power, more room for heat dispersion, …., we know we need to apply the law of subtraction and take away some features in order to stay focused. There were several ideas on the table: C8, C8DAC, ….etc, eventually we started off with C8 and today we delivered the C9.

As the model number has implied, C9 is the top model in Cayin product lineup. When we develop N8, we decided to use “8” because that is a lucky number to Chinese and we also visualized that there might be technology advancement to DAP down the road. For C9, we didn’t need to reserve that leeway because we know the analogue engineering inside out, it’s very mature and as far as Cayin’s concern, this is our ultimate.

The C9 will be available by *20 January 2021* and the suggested retail price is *US$1,999*. Price and date might vary because of logistic and tax consideration. Please consult your Cayin dealer for local availability and price.

For detail design and specification of C9, please refer the updated opening post *HERE*.


----------



## arijitroy2

Andykong said:


> *Cayin C9: TOTL Portable Headphone Amplifier*
> 
> Cayin was founded in 1993 and is one of the largest audio tube amplifier development and manufacturing facilities in the world. We have developed over 400 products to date, ranging from CD players to speakers, all of which provide the same high-quality benchmark, but our amplifiers have been particularly well-received within the audio community. That's why when we venture into Personal Audio back in 2013, we started with C5, a portable headphone amplifier, because amplifier is always our purest achievement.
> 
> ...



Hi Andy, do you have any idea if any dealers from EU have them in Stock right now or would have shortly? Thanks!


----------



## Andykong

For the record, we finally received the ALPS potentiometer yesterday, so we make a short video clip immediately.  In fact the original order is still pending at Dalian, nothing is going in or coming out since 22 December.  We placed another order from Hong Kong dealer, but it takes several days to clear the custom, a lot longer than previous practise.  Fortunately the potentiometer arrived before the final deadline.  If we couldn't receive the package by this weekend, we might need to postpone the C9 to 1 March, after the long break of Chinese New year.


----------



## Andykong

arijitroy2 said:


> Hi Andy, do you have any idea if any dealers from EU have them in Stock right now or would have shortly? Thanks!



Definitely not right now, the first production batch was a small scale test-run, and all the units were used as safety licensing, show demos, and send to dealer as sample only, there isn't any retail unit available as of today, not even in China.  The first batch will be rolled out from our factory next week, on 20 January.  I don't have the sales allocation with me, that table changed everyday and it's outside my scope as consultant.


----------



## Vitaly2017

Andykong said:


> *Cayin C9: TOTL Portable Headphone Amplifier*
> 
> Cayin was founded in 1993 and is one of the largest audio tube amplifier development and manufacturing facilities in the world. We have developed over 400 products to date, ranging from CD players to speakers, all of which provide the same high-quality benchmark, but our amplifiers have been particularly well-received within the audio community. That's why when we venture into Personal Audio back in 2013, we started with C5, a portable headphone amplifier, because amplifier is always our purest achievement.
> 
> ...





Very impressive work Andy really looking into it, I am now torn between M8 + C9 or M30 hmmm

C9 has some amazing features, its nice to see that the market is going fully into ToTL iem arena. Perfect timing for C9!


----------



## arijitroy2

Vitaly2017 said:


> Very impressive work Andy really looking into it, I am now torn between M8 + C9 or M30 hmmm
> 
> C9 has some amazing features, its nice to see that the market is going fully into ToTL iem arena. Perfect timing for C9!


You cant use M30 as a preamp, and for me is where C9 wins, I can use BX2 plus as power amp then for heavy duty phones!! Although I am quite tempted by M30 but not sure what the output power is in that.


----------



## vkenz

bluestorm1992 said:


> I think this is exactly how they do the pricing. The thing is N8 is already incredibly expensive...


Yeah, and the N8 have these wonderfully sounding DAC + Music Player + digital connectivity etc etc.  + 2 AMPs (SS + Tube).  And this C9 is just the AMP portion of the N8 more or less.  Now, is it worth it?


----------



## Vitaly2017

arijitroy2 said:


> You cant use M30 as a preamp, and for me is where C9 wins, I can use BX2 plus as power amp then for heavy duty phones!! Although I am quite tempted by M30 but not sure what the output power is in that.




They said it will run any headphones even the hard to drive and the sensitive iems to.

But me I am using tia Fourté Noir and they barely require any power lol. But from my experience of trying different gears, a super high quality amp will still improve the sound quality experience by a lot even for small iems.... It improves details perception, atmospheric feel, open sound,  all sound get lifted with a better quality amplitude...


----------



## arijitroy2

Vitaly2017 said:


> They said it will run any headphones even the hard to drive and the sensitive iems to.
> 
> But me I am using tia Fourté Noir and they barely require any power lol. But from my experience of trying different gears, a super high quality amp will still improve the sound quality experience by a lot even for small iems.... It improves details perception, atmospheric feel, open sound,  all sound get lifted with a better quality amplitude...


I know, that's why I use Luna with BX2 plus on high gain  It's a treat!!


----------



## vkenz (Jan 14, 2021)

Bosk said:


> Hi twister6, I've loved reading your reviews for many years now.
> 
> I think you're right. My passion is single-DD earphones and no modern DAP I've heard has a high-enough quality headphone amp to drive them to their full potential. I've yet to hear the DX220MAX or Kann Alpha and imagine they'd have a bit more oomph than usual, but earphones particularly those with DDs can scale far better than people think and benefit enormously from the addition of an standalone amp, and that's without even bringing the magic of tubes into the conversation.
> 
> ...


Very doubtful it could.   But yeah, maybe it will be a welcome surprise.  Hehe.  The more you listen to the SP2000, the more it says to you why, it is the "one".


----------



## Vitaly2017

arijitroy2 said:


> I know, that's why I use Luna with BX2 plus on high gain  It's a treat!!




🙂😃
Unfortunately bx2 didn't work for me and I still found it was not 100% transparent, it have slightly minimally altered the sound or did not fully translated ir in its full original form....
Maybe it was romi interconect cable doing that?

Also bx2 had a volume problem, to strong so even i  low gain I was at maximum 1/4 and it had glitches and volume fade out due to channel disbalance in the potentiometer at very low volumes.

In my opinion C9 is the top new amp to go, it has a lot neet fetures


----------



## arijitroy2

Vitaly2017 said:


> 🙂😃
> Unfortunately bx2 didn't work for me and I still found it was not 100% transparent, it have slightly minimally altered the sound or did not fully translated ir in its full original form....
> Maybe it was romi interconect cable doing that?
> 
> ...


Weird, I have none of those issues! Infact I and other users who have got it discussed how transparent and clean it is. Does not color the sound, pure amplification. This makes me realize that R8's amps are bit on the warm side rather.

I do use the silver 4.4mm interconnect cable from Romi, but I also have one other from 3rd party both sound the same! Might be a faulty unit of yours I guess?

I always wanted a Korg NuTube based amp, didnt get to buy the AMP9 from Ibasso, but now C9 is here and most likely will go for it.


----------



## Vitaly2017

arijitroy2 said:


> Weird, I have none of those issues! Infact I and other users who have got it discussed how transparent and clean it is. Does not color the sound, pure amplification. This makes me realize that R8's amps are bit on the warm side rather.
> 
> I do use the silver 4.4mm interconnect cable from Romi, but I also have one other from 3rd party both sound the same! Might be a faulty unit of yours I guess?
> 
> I always wanted a Korg NuTube based amp, didnt get to buy the AMP9 from Ibasso, but now C9 is here and most likely will go for it.





Is it ibasso dx200 you have ? You seem to like clinical sterile sound 😅 I am the complet opposite.

Talking of R8 you said right, it has a small hint of warmth which makes it sound more life like and slightly less clinical. I have the R8 and M8 right now also ordered dx300. For me R8 is too lean and not musical. Its too natural and neutralish. I need coloration, vibes, waves and musical curves 😊🥰

R8 is a very good dap but not with what I am after.


----------



## jmills8

Vitaly2017 said:


> 🙂😃
> Unfortunately bx2 didn't work for me and I still found it was not 100% transparent, it have slightly minimally altered the sound or did not fully translated ir in its full original form....
> Maybe it was romi interconect cable doing that?
> 
> ...


I just leave volume on the Romi 80 % high and control volume from the dap.


----------



## Vitaly2017

jmills8 said:


> I just leave volume on the Romi 80 % high and control volume from the dap.




You then feed it with low current and dont have full sound advantages. You need to feed a min of 80% from source to the amp or your just killing all the dynamics and the volume...


----------



## jmills8

Vitaly2017 said:


> You then feed it with low current and dont have full sound advantages. You need to feed a min of 80% from source to the amp or your just killing all the dynamics and the volume...


Sure if you believe that. Modders and even Mass Kobo creator said to do it that way.


----------



## Vitaly2017

jmills8 said:


> Sure if you believe that. Modders and even Mass Kobo creator said to do it that way.




I would use it your way only if it eas out of convenience but being a purist in hardware sound I dont do it.

So bx2 is eliminated for me.


----------



## arijitroy2 (Jan 14, 2021)

Vitaly2017 said:


> Is it ibasso dx200 you have ? You seem to like clinical sterile sound 😅 I am the complet opposite.
> 
> Talking of R8 you said right, it has a small hint of warmth which makes it sound more life like and slightly less clinical. I have the R8 and M8 right now also ordered dx300. For me R8 is too lean and not musical. Its too natural and neutralish. I need coloration, vibes, waves and musical curves 😊🥰
> 
> R8 is a very good dap but not with what I am after.


I had the DX220 with AMP8EX, and it was amazing except the UI part and battery.

Yeah you have different tastes in DAP  I like my source to be without color, and then there's MSEB if I need to. I'd rather chose a different transducer for colored sound and keep the source clean.

Coming from RME, R8 to me is not that neutral


----------



## runningwitit

vkenz said:


> Yeah, and the N8 have these wonderfully sounding DAC + Music Player + digital connectivity etc etc.  + 2 AMPs (SS + Tube).  And this C9 is just the AMP portion of the N8 more or less.  Now, is it worth it?


?


----------



## Lu88

Cayin C9 pre-order is now opened on MusicTeck.
https://shop.musicteck.com/products...anced-class-a-ab-portable-headphone-amplifier


----------



## Pictograms

[UOTE="Lu88, post: 16108773, member: 529245"]
Cayin C9 pre-order is now opened on MusicTeck.
https://shop.musicteck.com/products...anced-class-a-ab-portable-headphone-amplifier
[/QUOTE]
Mentions IEMs a lot...will that mean it’s dead silent with even the most sensitive?


----------



## davidmolliere

I must say as excited as I am, the price is well above what I anticipated and at this price there is a long hard thinking required we're talking Pro iCAN territory there...


----------



## bluestorm1992

davidmolliere said:


> I must say as excited as I am, the price is well above what I anticipated and at this price there is a long hard thinking required we're talking Pro iCAN territory there...


Same here. Must be waiting for some early user impressions and then decide. Well, I hope someone will end up getting one lol.


----------



## Whitigir

davidmolliere said:


> I must say as excited as I am, the price is well above what I anticipated and at this price there is a long hard thinking required we're talking Pro iCAN territory there...





bluestorm1992 said:


> Same here. Must be waiting for some early user impressions and then decide. Well, I hope someone will end up getting one lol.


Price is a little higher than expected for sure, still a very interesting amp


----------



## davidmolliere

Whitigir said:


> Price is a little higher than expected for sure, still a very interesting amp



Of course it is but I have heard the Pro iCAN and while it's tied to a power cord and much bigger it's also super sounding this means at this price point this is a long hard think rather than an impulse buy


----------



## runningwitit

Too many options at this price. 

Agreed!!


----------



## Whitigir

davidmolliere said:


> Of course it is but I have heard the Pro iCAN and while it's tied to a power cord and much bigger it's also super sounding this means at this price point this is a long hard think rather than an impulse buy





runningwitit said:


> Too many options at this price.
> 
> Agreed!!


True! Now you have brought that up again.  It has been so long that I even forgot about the existence of Pro-Ican.

Even if it need to be tied to a Wall, it can take 15V-DC supplies.  You can always buy a battery packs for that voltage and make it transportable.  Just that it is so very large though lol


----------



## Jeffyue

Had a short session with C9 yesterday. Only spent around 35 mins with it so it may not be a good representation.  Just my impression.

Used only a HD800S provided by shop.  Happened to have a iFi Zen Can sitting on the table as well. So could focus on comparing the 2 amp.




N8 4.4 LO as source to C9 to drive 800S, A18t and Odin.. N8 3.5 tube as source for A18t and Odin for comparison.
C9 at Hi gain  and A class for 800S, and Low gain and AB class for IEMs. Just test the tube sound.

1. C9 can drive the 800S, but think there s not much advantage compared to Zen Can.  Powerful enough, and can show the soundstage capability of 800S, but not really outshine Zen Can by much. The advantage probably only on the tube sound option.  But when u think about the price difference, seems a bit hard to swallow.  

2. Then used A18t and Odin on the C9 balanced output low gain with tube.  Had a feeling it s pushing the bass too much, to an extent that the timbre and extension is no longer there.  Thought it s my hearing problem, but when I used back my N8 on tube (SE only), then can got back the high pitch clarity and extension. Maybe becoz both A18t and Odin are easy to drive, but to me I would prefer to use my N8 (or maybe even N3Pro) to enjoy the sound signature of A18t and Odin.

3. The size of C9 is not small, heard will be similar to the upcoming DX300. I can't imagine to carry a C9 and DAP for outdoor use. A N8 and N3Pro will do a better job for my IEMs. And I don't use HP outdoor at all.
If we talk about home use, then I would rather use a simple Zen Can, and add a WA8 if I want the tube sound.  Actually C9 does raise my interest on a proper desktop amp.  With its price there are loads of option out there.

Just a 35 mins test drive, so please take my impression with reservation...


----------



## jmills8

Jeffyue said:


> Had a short session with C9 yesterday. Only spent around 35 mins with it so it may not be a good representation.  Just my impression.
> 
> Used only a HD800S provided by shop.  Happened to have a iFi Zen Can sitting on the table as well. So could focus on comparing the 2 amp.
> 
> ...


N8 my favorite. Btw I once were walking with my N8 and it slide out of it case and flew 10 feet onto the sidewalk. Still working perfectly.


----------



## Whitigir

jmills8 said:


> N8 my favorite. Btw I once were walking with my N8 and it slide out of it case and flew 10 feet onto the sidewalk. Still working perfectly.


Getting your C9 ?


----------



## Whitigir (Jan 18, 2021)

Anyone is already looking toward batteries yet ?
https://www.orbtronic.com/18650-battery


----------



## Whitigir

I have a question across my mind.  Is there some short of indicators to tell what battery life is left ?


----------



## Pictograms (Jan 18, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> I have a question across my mind.  Is there some short of indicators to tell what battery life is left ?


There is a light on the power button, it probably changes colour with charge level

EDIT* I’m probably wrong


----------



## Barndoor

I've been following this thread since initial announcement as my headfi direction is for fully portable and I enjoy tubes.
However, the price is an issue for me, or more specifically my understanding of why this device technically justifies the price tag.
I have to admit I was expecting this to be sub $1k device.

I'm not particularly technical, so am obviously missing a lot, but my logic was to take the $500 N3Pro strip out the transport (touch screen, memory card, software, etc) and dac sections reducing cost. Add improved tubes (I'm sure I read somewhere these are circa $50), battery and amp circuitry.
Can someone explain to me (in simple terms) why the cost is quadrupled compared to N3pro despite those components being stripped out?


----------



## bluestorm1992

Barndoor said:


> I've been following this thread since initial announcement as my headfi direction is for fully portable and I enjoy tubes.
> However, the price is an issue for me, or more specifically my understanding of why this device technically justifies the price tag.
> I have to admit I was expecting this to be sub $1k device.
> 
> ...


@Andykong


----------



## CrocodileDundee

That's a hard to swallow price. Maybe Cayin can "explain" the price, but I don't think it will ever "justify". Pass for me.


----------



## runningwitit

Forget it. I'm going for the ha 300!
 Double the price with waaayyy more options!


----------



## Bosk

Barndoor said:


> Can someone explain to me (in simple terms) why the cost is quadrupled compared to N3pro despite those components being stripped out?


Technically a Ferrari is an SUV with five seats stripped out, so why are they so expensive? Exponentially higher parts quality, a more elaborate design with fewer compromises, much smaller production volume so cost per unit goes up for the manufacturer, need to raise profit margin per unit to justify R&D costs, and deliberately targeting a higher price bracket to give purchasers a feeling of exclusivity.


----------



## jmills8

Bosk said:


> Technically a Ferrari is an SUV with five seats stripped out, so why are they so expensive? Exponentially higher parts quality, a more elaborate design with fewer compromises, much smaller production volume so cost per unit goes up for the manufacturer, need to raise profit margin per unit to justify R&D costs, and deliberately targeting a higher price bracket to give purchasers a feeling of exclusivity.


----------



## Barndoor

Bosk said:


> Technically a Ferrari is an SUV with five seats stripped out, so why are they so expensive? Exponentially higher parts quality, a more elaborate design with fewer compromises, much smaller production volume so cost per unit goes up for the manufacturer, need to raise profit margin per unit to justify R&D costs, and deliberately targeting a higher price bracket to give purchasers a feeling of exclusivity.



Can you give some examples of "Exponentially higher parts quality" in the case on the C9 vs N3pro and an overview of what makes it a "more elaborate design".
Not being flippant or C9 bashing, just trying to improve my technical understanding.


----------



## s6323859

Barndoor said:


> I've been following this thread since initial announcement as my headfi direction is for fully portable and I enjoy tubes.
> However, the price is an issue for me, or more specifically my understanding of why this device technically justifies the price tag.
> I have to admit I was expecting this to be sub $1k device.
> 
> ...



I think the price is depend on the demand and the competitor. If a product is definitely for niche market, its price will be higher. 

Because the buyer on the market is definitely few, less price will not get more buyer. So the unit price will be high for the product cost.

Another factor of affect the unit price is the competitor product price. Maybe compare with other portable amp is more reasonable.


----------



## Whitigir (Jan 19, 2021)

Well, I have also been following and I have issues with the price also.  However, the way I take it is that this *C9 is a 4 devices in one.*

1/ Tube balanced Amp Class A
2/ Tube balanced Amp Class AB
3/ Solid State Balanced Amp Class A
4/ Solid State Balanced Amp Class AB

Take any recent portable amp product like the XB2 by itself, which is a $800 Amp.  _Now, makes that 4x the price due to the 4 devices built in as stated above, and the C9 is cheaper_

Or You can look at the _Korg Tube Amp products and make it 4X the price, and the C9 is still cheaper

You can also compare to Mass Kobo Amp which also have removable batteries but a lot lower Output power, and x4 it_

Together with this, the C9 also have a lot more features, given the ability to act as a “PreAmp”.  You have an additional

1/ Pre Amplified Line in (the ability to use any headphones out port properly to amplifications without having to technically double amping the signals)

2/ Using 18650 Batteries.  So you can leave 8-12 batteries charged, safely stored.  Then pull out and swap.  So your C9 is constantly operational without charging down time.

So then Those are the reason as of why it has convinced me to buy one.  On top of that, it look really neat!! The dimensions are about Iphone Pro Max 11 but with 27mm thickness.  I have preordered through @MusicTeck !! Can’t wait to have it !!
https://shop.musicteck.com/products...anced-class-a-ab-portable-headphone-amplifier


----------



## runningwitit (Jan 19, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> Well, I have also been following and I have issues with the price also.  However, the way I take it is that this *C9 is a 4 devices in one.*
> 
> 1/ Tube balanced Amp Class A
> 2/ Tube balanced Amp Class AB
> ...


I knew you were going to get one for sure. Me, may end up with one eventually...however, not at launch..
The wait time was more than I could bare and ended up making other moves..In essence, I screwed myself this time around.. Lol


----------



## Whitigir

runningwitit said:


> I knew you were going to get one for sure. Me, may end up with one eventually...however, not at launch..
> The wait time was more than I could bare and ended up making other moves..*In essence, I screwed myself this time around.. Lol*


Well, you are not alone !!


----------



## runningwitit

It still isn't doing a thing for my sickness, lol..

Be sure to tell how the match between the Max/C9 perpetuates..


----------



## arijitroy2

Whitigir said:


> Well, I have also been following and I have issues with the price also.  However, the way I take it is that this *C9 is a 4 devices in one.*
> 
> 1/ Tube balanced Amp Class A
> 2/ Tube balanced Amp Class AB
> ...


I most likely will be getting one too, hopefully by next month, might wait for few impressions first though!


----------



## Whitigir

I wonder if it has Silicon Bands in the box for stacking purposes ?


----------



## Lu88

Whitigir said:


> I wonder if it has Silicon Bands in the box for stacking purposes ?



No. Check out the unbox video below, and you will find what's in the box.
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1ET4y1K7Bf

BTW, today is the release date in China.


----------



## Whitigir (Jan 19, 2021)

Lu88 said:


> No. Check out the unbox video below, and you will find what's in the box.
> https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1ET4y1K7Bf
> 
> BTW, today is the release date in China.


How would you stack something on top of it ? Lol!!

today is release date in China, that means US stock won’t be available until 7-14 days eh ? Exciting


----------



## Nostoi

That was quick - https://headfonics.com/cayin-c9-review/


----------



## marcusd

Nostoi said:


> That was quick - https://headfonics.com/cayin-c9-review/



We aim to please


----------



## Nostoi

marcusd said:


> We aim to please


Solid review, very much appreciate the Hugo 2 comparison (which is what I'll be using the Cayin for). It's expensive, but also alluring. 

BTW: would you happen to have a photo of the Hugo 2 and Cayin stacked? I'd love to just get a sense of how transportable it would actually be around the house.


----------



## marcusd

Just did 2 quickies for you there now.


----------



## Makiah S

Andykong said:


> *Cayin C9: TOTL Portable Headphone Amplifier*
> 
> Cayin was founded in 1993 and is one of the largest audio tube amplifier development and manufacturing facilities in the world.  We have developed over 400 products to date, ranging from CD players to speakers, all of which provide the same high-quality benchmark, but our amplifiers have been particularly well-received within the audio community.  That's why when we venture into Personal Audio back in 2013, we started with C5, a portable headphone amplifier, because amplifier is always our purest achievement.
> 
> ...



I hope Cayin launched a desktop solution soon! The Apex Sangaku was one of if not the best hybrid Tube Amp I've heard and it ran the the Korg Nu Tubes, I'd love to see another desktop design built around it

Either way this looks like an astonishing portable!


----------



## Nostoi

marcusd said:


> Just did 2 quickies for you there now.


Thanks, looks good!


----------



## Whitigir

marcusd said:


> We aim to please


How hot does it get when you run it in Tube Class A ? Thanks mucho


----------



## marcusd

Whitigir said:


> How hot does it get when you run it in Tube Class A ? Thanks mucho



Nowhere near as hot as the old continental dual mono.


----------



## Whitigir

marcusd said:


> Nowhere near as hot as the old continental dual mono.


Still comfortable to stay in the pocket or backpack ?


----------



## marcusd

Whitigir said:


> Still comfortable to stay in the pocket or backpack ?



I am not entirely sure this can fit in any normal pocket. Backpack yes no issues.


----------



## ahossam

I definitely will getting C9 instead of new DAP, now I have to get A02 module for my N6ii.


----------



## Whitigir (Jan 20, 2021)

ahossam said:


> I definitely will getting C9 instead of new DAP, now I have to get A02 module for my N6ii.


that sounds like a good plan, but better and more robust DAP would improve the experiences for sure.  The implementations of power rails, supplies, and conversions would hugely be effecting the line out performances.  May be N8 ? Or other TOTL like SP2K, LP P6Pro...etc...


----------



## ahossam

Whitigir said:


> that sounds like a good plan, but better and more robust DAP would improve the experiences for sure.  The implementations of power rails, supplies, and conversions would hugely be effecting the line out performances.  May be N8 ? Or other TOTL like SP2K, LP P6Pro...etc...


How about MAX line out? N6ii + C9 will be more transportable though.


----------



## Whitigir

ahossam said:


> How about MAX line out? N6ii + C9 will be more transportable though.


Max is great but is going to be very heavy.  You are looking at 1,500Gr of stack.  The Dx300 is a better choice


----------



## DarginMahkum

ahossam said:


> How about MAX line out? N6ii + C9 will be more transportable though.





Whitigir said:


> Max is great but is going to be very heavy. You are looking at 1,500Gr of stack. The Dx300 is a better choice



Actually DX220 might be a good choice to pair with something like C9. It is light small and has a very good DAC implementation.


----------



## Whitigir (Jan 20, 2021)

DarginMahkum said:


> Actually DX220 might be a good choice to pair with something like C9. It is light small and has a very good DAC implementation.


Yes and that it does.  The dx300 still have a lot of newer technologies too though.  Both are good choices for sure. I think A02 will be fine since it is dedicated to line out only. 
*May be the N9 is incoming*


----------



## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> Yes and that it does.  The dx300 still have a lot of newer technologies too though.  Both are good choices for sure. I think A02 will be fine since it is dedicated to line out only.
> *May be the N9 is incoming*


N9+C9, a $6000 combo 🤯


----------



## Whitigir (Jan 20, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> N9+C9, a $6000 combo 🤯


Maybe more, you can see people pairing P6Pro with C9 already.  Ideally, an R2R discrete with Tube portable is some Ancient dirty desires .

Or, Sigma Delta IC conversions with tubes Buffers stages on the line out into the external Tubes Amplifications !!!


----------



## arijitroy2

I did read somewhere in a Chinese blog that the R8 and C9 is a pretty good combo! So definetly looking forward to getting the C9!


----------



## Whitigir (Jan 20, 2021)

arijitroy2 said:


> I did read somewhere in a Chinese blog that the R8 and C9 is a pretty good combo! So definetly looking forward to getting the C9!


Very much the same here ! I can not wait actually!

The ability to take Phone out from about any DAPs and then Pre-Line In before amplifications is awesome.  The flexibility/applications is limitless


----------



## arijitroy2

Whitigir said:


> Very much the same here ! I can not wait actually!
> 
> The ability to take Phone out from about any DAPs and then Pre-Line In before amplifications is awesome.  The flexibility is limitless


I also have the BX2 plus, which has a higher rater power output than C9, is there a way I can use C9 in the middle of the chain? Just checking if this is possible!


----------



## Whitigir (Jan 20, 2021)

arijitroy2 said:


> I also have the BX2 plus, which has a higher rater power output than C9, is there a way I can use C9 in the middle of the chain? Just checking if this is possible!


Oh nvm, that is Pre-Line in, not Pre-Out LOL.  Don’t try it


----------



## arijitroy2

Whitigir said:


> Oh nvm, that is Pre-Line in, not Pre-Out LOL.  Don’t try it


Ah shucks! so close


----------



## Zambu

ahossam said:


> How about MAX line out? N6ii + C9 will be more transportable though.



Oh I'd love to see someone casually rocking a MAX + C9 combo in the subway


----------



## Whitigir

Zambu said:


> Oh I'd love to see someone casually rocking a MAX + C9 combo in the subway


And you wouldn’t want to piss him off....imagine one brick per cheeks!


----------



## Whitigir

Have anyone been looking into “C9 Case” ? At all


----------



## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> Maybe more, you can see people pairing P6Pro with C9 already.  Ideally, an R2R discrete with Tube portable is some Ancient dirty desires .
> 
> Or, Sigma Delta IC conversions with tubes Buffers stages on the line out into the external Tubes Amplifications !!!


Here you go! P6 Pro + C9 + Oriolus Traillii.

Pic from LP China.


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> Here you go! P6 Pro + C9 + Oriolus Traillii.
> 
> Pic from LP China.


What is the  cables from interconnect ?


----------



## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> What is the  cables from interconnect ?


Actually I don’t know. It looks nice though.


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> Actually I don’t know. It looks nice though.


I have a plan to make something nice too , eagerly waiting my C9


----------



## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> I have a plan to make something nice too , eagerly waiting my C9


I believe C9 comes with two high quality interconnect, but of course something made by ourselves is always nicer.


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> I believe C9 comes with two high quality interconnect, but of course something made by ourselves is always nicer.


Nice in look, but it is OFC copper , and I have many more things that can be nicer lol


----------



## Bosk

marcusd said:


> We aim to please


Kudos on releasing a review so quickly Marcus!

Reading between the lines would I be right in surmising you weren't completely blown away by the C9's performance? You barely mentioned how it sounds in your Verdict and though you described it as being better across the board than the CDM & BA300S it doesn't sound like they were destroyed by comparison, as one would hope by such a comparatively expensive unit.

You did mention you now consider the C9 the best portable amp on the market (despite no comparisons with the WA8 or Phatlab Phantasy II for instance) and there will always be a market for any audio product offering incremental improvement over the previous "best" regardless of how many micrometers of superiority it offers, but given the rather lukewarm state of the portable amplifier market as I understand it, would it not be fair to suggest anything less than sonic stupendousness constitutes something of a missed opportunity for Cayin given the amount of eyebrows that've shot up over pricing?

I do not mean to be disrespect Cayin's commendable effort to bring a TOTL portable amp to market, in fact like many of us here I've been hoping it succeeds to help rejuvenate interest in portable amplification as I'm a big believer in more juice being required to drive earphones to their full potential. Perhaps its more fair to evaluate the C9 only as a product in its own right rather than one burdened with a greater role to play in the state of the portable, and yet I don't expect to be the only person tempted to do otherwise.


----------



## Jeffyue

Bosk said:


> Kudos on releasing a review so quickly Marcus!
> 
> Reading between the lines would I be right in surmising you weren't completely blown away by the C9's performance? You barely mentioned how it sounds in your Verdict and though you described it as being better across the board than the CDM & BA300S it doesn't sound like they were destroyed by comparison, as one would hope by such a comparatively expensive unit.
> 
> ...



Seems I have found somebody to share the same impression from the review...
Probably still need some time for the sound impression given the short time span on the review after the product release.

Thinking about it, I am actually good at doing similar talk... especially comes to the time when my wife asking me about the true cost of my toys... and I can talk for nights on the features, usage, pros and cons without touching on her core question...😅


----------



## bluestorm1992

Bosk said:


> Kudos on releasing a review so quickly Marcus!
> 
> Reading between the lines would I be right in surmising you weren't completely blown away by the C9's performance? You barely mentioned how it sounds in your Verdict and though you described it as being better across the board than the CDM & BA300S it doesn't sound like they were destroyed by comparison, as one would hope by such a comparatively expensive unit.
> 
> ...


Same feeling from reading the review as well. For the price difference between BA300 and C9, the performance gap is supposed to be significant...

From a slightly different angle, BGGY on YouTube once concluded that his Fiio M11 + BA300 combo sounds better than N8. If Cayin’s goal is to make the combo of N6ii+C9 to sound better than N8, this does not seem like a goal that is ambitious enough.


----------



## jmills8

bluestorm1992 said:


> Same feeling from reading the review as well. For the price difference between BA300 and C9, the performance gap is supposed to be significant...
> 
> From a slightly different angle, BGGY on YouTube once concluded that his Fiio M11 + BA300 combo sounds better than N8. If Cayin’s goal is to make the combo of N6ii+C9 to sound better than N8, this does not seem like a goal that is ambitious enough.


BA300 wasnt even good , soundwise. Price is good.


----------



## bluestorm1992

jmills8 said:


> BA300 wasnt even good , soundwise. Price is good.


Then... I am even more worried about the performance of C9 since Marcus does not seem to find a huge difference in performance between them.


----------



## Vitaly2017

Whitigir said:


> I have a plan to make something nice too , eagerly waiting my C9




Ohh C9 + Max = better then dmpz1? 🤔😝


----------



## Vitaly2017

bluestorm1992 said:


> Same feeling from reading the review as well. For the price difference between BA300 and C9, the performance gap is supposed to be significant...
> 
> From a slightly different angle, BGGY on YouTube once concluded that his Fiio M11 + BA300 combo sounds better than N8. If Cayin’s goal is to make the combo of N6ii+C9 to sound better than N8, this does not seem like a goal that is ambitious enough.




LOL LOL LOL

May ask if you ever heard N8 in tube mode?

Cause I did and I also owned ba300 + wm1z as pairing and you know what I think?

Ba300 is poop man!
N8 sounded way better in tube mode and cleaner, no vibrations and noises where heard threw it. While the ba300 just a simple shake would translate the noise into your ears....


----------



## bluestorm1992

Vitaly2017 said:


> LOL LOL LOL
> 
> May ask if you ever heard N8 in tube mode?
> 
> ...


Haha no I have not, just quoting the impression from someone else.


----------



## jmills8

bluestorm1992 said:


> Then... I am even more worried about the performance of C9 since Marcus does not seem to find a huge difference in performance between them.


Well guess it is or he needs more time with both.


----------



## arijitroy2

I have the BA300SJP, dont use it much at all nowadays since I got R8. With DX228EX, that paired really well, gave a very lush sound to it, doesn't do much with R8. Hope C9 is way ahead of this since the price is 10x higher!!


----------



## marcusd

DarginMahkum said:


> Actually DX220 might be a good choice to pair with something like C9. It is light small and has a very good DAC implementation.



I'm using the


Bosk said:


> Kudos on releasing a review so quickly Marcus!
> 
> Reading between the lines would I be right in surmising you weren't completely blown away by the C9's performance? You barely mentioned how it sounds in your Verdict and though you described it as being better across the board than the CDM & BA300S it doesn't sound like they were destroyed by comparison, as one would hope by such a comparatively expensive unit.
> 
> ...



_"Kudos on releasing a review so quickly Marcus!"_

You are most welcome. 

I am a fairly simple guy, no conspiracies, so no lines to read between, to be honest with you. We don't need to go into the sound in huge detail in a verdict because it's already described in detail on page 3. A verdict shouldn't need to repeat what is already said IMHO. Others may disagree.

_"You did mention you now consider the C9 the best portable amp on the market (despite no comparisons with the WA8 or Phatlab Phantasy II for instance)"_

I did not remember saying that, can you point to me where I said it is the best portable amp on the market? I would be happy to comment on that considering yes I do not have the WA8 or Phatlab to compare with but such is life, they might be great also. I do have about 40 other portable amps going back 12 years but none really compare or are long since discontinued. 

_"being better across the board than the CDM & BA300S it doesn't sound like they were destroyed by comparison"_

Better across the board is fairly destructive to me.

"Reading between the lines would I be right in surmising you weren't completely blown away by the C9's performance?"

Here is my surmising: " Some of my best analog gear or amps are years old and still sounds excellent today if well looked after. I cannot see how the Cayin C9 will be any different." 

_"Perhaps its more fair to evaluate the C9 only as a product in its own right rather than one burdened with a greater role to play in the state of the portable, and yet I don't expect to be the only person tempted to do otherwise."_

Good point.


----------



## marcusd

bluestorm1992 said:


> Then... I am even more worried about the performance of C9 since Marcus does not seem to find a huge difference in performance between them.



I did, audio timbre is not a performance issue for me, a preference issue. On everything else, slay on.


----------



## marcusd

Jeffyue said:


> Seems I have found somebody to share the same impression from the review...
> Probably still need some time for the sound impression given the short time span on the review after the product release.
> 
> Thinking about it, I am actually good at doing similar talk... especially comes to the time when my wife asking me about the true cost of my toys... and I can talk for nights on the features, usage, pros and cons without touching on her core question...😅



I had it for much longer than the release date.


----------



## marcusd

arijitroy2 said:


> I have the BA300SJP, dont use it much at all nowadays since I got R8. With DX228EX, that paired really well, gave a very lush sound to it, doesn't do much with R8. Hope C9 is way ahead of this since the price is 10x higher!!



I like lush also for vocals, but the C9 is way ahead.


----------



## Zambu (Jan 21, 2021)

Vitaly2017 said:


> Cause I did and I also owned ba300 + wm1z as pairing and you know what I think?
> 
> Ba300 is poop man!
> N8 sounded way better in tube mode and cleaner, no vibrations and noises where heard threw it. While the ba300 just a simple shake would translate the noise into your ears....



Not using the BA300S much at the moment since N3Pro is preferable (particularly in convenience) but I don't recognize the shaking noises you mention...I literally just made a quick check with stack of DX160 and BA300S (not even using those pads that attach them together), shaked (shook?) it basically as much as I could and can't recognize any effect in sound. Maybe I need to train my arm strength to shake harder but... can't compare to N8 in sound but I would hope that an 8-10 times more expensive device sounds way better.


----------



## Andykong

We have rolled out our first C9 shipment to local dealers in China already, and we'll start shipping to oversea dealers immediately.  Please check with your local dealer for availability starting early next week.


----------



## DarginMahkum

Andykong said:


> We have rolled out our first C9 shipment to local dealers in China already, and we'll start shipping to oversea dealers immediately.  Please check with your local dealer for availability starting early next week.




Great! Any plans to release a portable DAC only device to complement this?


----------



## newworld666 (Jan 21, 2021)

Zambu said:


> Not using the BA300S much at the moment since N3Pro is preferable (particularly in convenience)* but I don't recognize the shaking noises you mention*...I literally just made a quick check with stack of DX160 and BA300S (not even using those pads that attach them together), shaked (shook?) it basically as much as I could and can't recognize any effect in sound. Maybe I need to train my arm strength to shake harder but... can't compare to N8 in sound but I would hope that an 8-10 times more expensive device sounds way better.



+1 same here ..
I am using sometimes the BA300 (old one ) with my Sony WM1A to move a bit more and better the Sony Z7M2 or Ultrasone Ed15 Veritas when I am on the move ..
Till now, even in landing planes or trains => I have never caught any shaking noise.. I wonder how it can happen in real life.

I am looking for the Cayin C9 as I just hope to be free in my home and stay where I want to listen music. Till now, I couldn't get any DAP/Portable amps to move my HEDDphone as a simple THX887 of 400$ can do it, with real precise kicks in low and ultra low frequencies and ultra clear high frequencies too. My last item is the Kann Alpha which is the best portable item for my HEDDphone, but still quite far from the THX 887 when connected to the Alpha Kann or (WM1A, M11, R6pro, W10pro Sirius A).
I wonder if a 2K$ portable amp can do something without a "real" power supply. I am waiting these next days for a Centrance M8V2, but I doubt it will help even with 20V output peek power.


----------



## Whitigir (Jan 21, 2021)

Andykong said:


> We have rolled out our first C9 shipment to local dealers in China already, and we'll start shipping to oversea dealers immediately.  Please check with your local dealer for availability starting early next week.



Great!! Any ideas about silicone bands and leather case to carry it around in stackable style to a DAP?


----------



## ahossam

DarginMahkum said:


> Great! Any plans to release a portable DAC only device to complement this?



Doubtful, Cayin released A02 module for N6II, I think this module is the only product meant to complement C9 from Cayin.


----------



## Whitigir

ahossam said:


> Doubtful, Cayin released A02 module for N6II, I think this module is the only product meant to complement C9 from Cayin.


May be N9? Hmm


----------



## Adnan Firoze (Jan 21, 2021)

I am fairly new to topologies and this "pre" option kind of confuses me.

Anyway, I use a Hugo2 with an r6pro as a transport. Now, this is what I want to do. If I only use my Hugo2 DAC and feed the signal to the c9 (note that Hugo2 is single ended), so it makes sense to feed SE to the c9 here. But most of my gear are 4.4mm terminated. With this setup I mentioned, what comes out of the balanced phone out of the c9? Clearly, the input is not balanced, but can it output through the balanced socket to the headphone/IEM (I know theoretically it won't be balanced) but I am just doing my research before shelling out the money.


----------



## Whitigir (Jan 21, 2021)

Adnan Firoze said:


> I am fairly new to topologies and this "pre" option kind of confuses me.
> 
> Anyway, I use a Hugo2 with an r6pro as a transport. Now, this is what I want to do. If I only use my Hugo2 DAC and feed the signal to the c9 (note that Hugo2 is single ended), so it makes sense to feed SE to the c9 here. But most of my gear are 4.4mm terminated. With this setup I mentioned, what comes out of the balanced phone out of the c9? Clearly, the input is not balanced, but can it output through the balanced socket to the headphone/IEM (I know theoretically it won't be balanced) but I am just doing my research before shelling out the money.


The C9 is true Balanced Amplifier.  Of course it can take single ended input and output inverted phase into balanced out.

Therefore, you should be able to use it the way you just asked


----------



## Adnan Firoze

Whitigir said:


> The C9 is true Balanced Amplifier.  Of course it can take single ended input and output invested phase into balanced out.
> 
> Therefore, you should be able to use it the way you just asked



Awesome! Thanks so much for the quick help. Really appreciate it .


----------



## Whitigir (Jan 22, 2021)

@Andykong for the 18650 purposes, I assumes that the C9 can charge itself, so the best battery kind is the bare battery UnProtected right ? Flat ? Or button head ? 

Also , what is the Continuous Current Rating is the C9 drawing at Max ? Tubes balanced in/out class A

 Thanks much


----------



## Giru

Final specs do look good but the price is really


----------



## Whitigir

I am getting ready for my C9!!! The end game interconnect


----------



## normie610

Whitigir said:


> I am getting ready for my C9!!! The end game interconnect



I love those Furutechs.....may I ask what cable is it? Did you make it yourself?


----------



## Whitigir

normie610 said:


> I love those Furutechs.....may I ask what cable is it? Did you make it yourself?


Yes, DIY project, Cables is from Jade Audio Pure Gold Interconnect (remake into this ultimate end game for C9)


----------



## jmills8

Whitigir said:


> I am getting ready for my C9!!! The end game interconnect


I like these ,


----------



## Bosk (Jan 23, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> I am getting ready for my C9!!! The end game interconnect


Very nice! Those look like Furutech connectors? I'm interested to hear what sort of wire & solder you used.





jmills8 said:


> I like these ,


That Brimar interconnect looks super nice. It looks like the individual cores are spiraled around a some sort of plastic or teflon spacer?

I recently ordered a pair of 3.5mm mini-to-minis yet to arrive. An 8-core pure silver interconnect from CEMA, and a palladium-plated Penon Totem:
https://penonaudio.com/audio-cable/3.5mm-cable/penon-totem-audio-cable.html


----------



## Whitigir

Bosk said:


> Very nice! Those look like Furutech connectors? I'm interested to hear what sort of wire & solder you used.


Furutech rhodium plated plugs
Wires is from Jade Audio Pure Gold Interconnect
Solder Oyaide SS47


----------



## Bosk

Whitigir said:


> Furutech rhodium plated plugs
> Wires is from Jade Audio Pure Gold Interconnect
> Solder Oyaide SS47


That's some very expensive wire! Quick question though please - have you experienced much in the way of sonic differences between solders? I'm a believer in silver solder vs non-silver, beyond that don't know how much improvement the more exotic solders really make.


----------



## Whitigir

Bosk said:


> That's some very expensive wire! Quick question though please - have you experienced much in the way of sonic differences between solders? I'm a believer in silver solder vs non-silver, beyond that don't know how much improvement the more exotic solders really make.


Yes, and my choices of solders are based on all the trials&errors I did a while back.  I have been sticking with SS47 from then on, and not going to change soon


----------



## Bosk

Whitigir said:


> Yes, and my choices of solders are based on all the trials&errors I did a while back.  I have been sticking with SS47 from then on, and not going to change soon


Aha, cheers for that. So theoretically, if you re-soldered each joint in the signal path of a C9 with SS47 you would expect improved performance or at least a timbral shift?


----------



## Whitigir (Jan 23, 2021)

Bosk said:


> Aha, cheers for that. So theoretically, if you re-soldered each joint in the signal path of a C9 with SS47 you would expect improved performance or at least a timbral shift?


Maybe, yes, and also no.  The solder inside any of these devices are actually oven baked, and it depends on what solders the company used.  There are many different pastes in the market, and some of them are already with high silver contains.  I do not know which one was used, and also have not experienced with different pastes.  The one thing for sure is that those component have reflow limits.  If you dont have it done right, then you may have already degraded These components in sake of trying to improve it by solders.

everything is important, but there have to be priorities.  For example, if you would want to improve the C9 by modifications, then you may want to swap out Wima caps, or OSCons, or some FET, and re-balancing the amp as a whole.  However, I am not doing any of that, having 4 amps in one is enough to roll the dice, ontop of that, there is battery to roll.  I will be too busy to roll all that and don’t even want to bother.  Those are also the reasons why I jumped in for the C9


----------



## ahossam

My N6II is ready for C9


----------



## arijitroy2

Quality of interconnects is so imp, found out last week with the BX2 Plus. I have two, one I got with BA300S and the silver one from Romi.


----------



## Whitigir

arijitroy2 said:


> Quality of interconnects is so imp, found out last week with the BX2 Plus. I have two, one I got with BA300S and the silver one from Romi.


It is super duper Important !!!  

*Batteries:*
Technically, I have words confirming from Cayin that if you want the best for your C9 in batteries, go with *Higher Current Discharge Rating (CDR) and low Internal Resistance*.  *It effects headroom and transients*, and this is where the fun comes to!!!! We all hear things differently and our gears are different too!! So is sources and IC


----------



## Adnan Firoze

Whitigir said:


> I am getting ready for my C9!!! The end game interconnect



Nice! What are you planning to use as source(s)?


----------



## Whitigir

Adnan Firoze said:


> Nice! What are you planning to use as source(s)?


Probably Dx300 or MAX as both has dedicated battery and it own power supply for the analog signals.  I also have my DAT Walkman that I enjoy using it too


----------



## DarginMahkum

Adnan Firoze said:


> Nice! What are you planning to use as source(s)?



I am yet to find a DAP that could provide the transparent, deep and focused sound of a proper desktop DAC/amp like T+A HA200 and none of the DAPs I have tried (MAX, R8, SP2000) could reach that level to be "close" to desktop level source so far. Maybe Hugo2, but so far I am not hopeful about the DAPs after experiencing what a proper desktop device can deliver.

So I really wish for a matching portable DAC for C9.


----------



## bluestorm1992

DarginMahkum said:


> I am yet to find a DAP that could provide the transparent, deep and focused sound of a proper desktop DAC/amp like T+A HA200 and none of the DAPs I have tried (MAX, R8, SP2000) could reach that level to be "close" to desktop level source so far. Maybe Hugo2, but so far I am not hopeful about the DAPs after experiencing what a proper desktop device can deliver.
> 
> So I really wish for a matching portable DAC for C9.


Maybe N6ii+A02?


----------



## Whitigir

DarginMahkum said:


> I am yet to find a DAP that could provide the transparent, deep and focused sound of a proper desktop DAC/amp like T+A HA200 and none of the DAPs I have tried (MAX, R8, SP2000) could reach that level to be "close" to desktop level source so far. Maybe Hugo2, but so far I am not hopeful about the DAPs after experiencing what a proper desktop device can deliver.
> 
> So I really wish for a matching portable DAC for C9.


So, you basically just want “top desktop performances” but with “portable footprint” and ”affordable price” ?  Sizes do matter, and then portability also matter, just saying.  The technologies keep progressing, eventually we will get there, just like how back in floppy disk days and age, a 1Tb was a dream.

For now, C9 can satisfy a lot of aspects while being portable.  I will just upgrade DAP as it improved


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> Maybe N6ii+A02?


I doubt it, the battery and small package do have a lot of limitations to the architecture of the DAC.  Desktop has unlimited power from the AC and it regulated supplies.  Desktop also is not limited to sizes.  However it can not be taken on the go, in the backpack, and so on.  These systems are just like “tools”, you have to have the right tools for the right jobs.  You can not hammer a nail with rubber hammer, and you can not hammer a wood floor with Hatchet either.

People can always dream and desire, and that is how innovation come about.  We just need to be reasonable lol


----------



## DarginMahkum

Whitigir said:


> So, you basically just want “top desktop performances” but with “portable footprint” and ”affordable price” ?  Sizes do matter, and then portability also matter, just saying.  The technologies keep progressing, eventually we will get there, just like how back in floppy disk days and age, a 1Tb was a dream.
> 
> For now, C9 can satisfy a lot of aspects while being portable.  I will just upgrade DAP as it improved



Yeah, as "affordable" as R8, MAX and especially as SP2000 can be. Nowhere in my description any kind of limitation in size or price is mentioned. So I am not asking for any of it - just a DAC that performs better than a pocket portable screen device, in a matching size and "transportability" as the C9 itself. So no hammers or extra tools are part of the story.


----------



## MSA1133

DarginMahkum said:


> Yeah, as "affordable" as R8, MAX and especially as SP2000 can be. Nowhere in my description any kind of limitation in size or price is mentioned. So I am not asking for any of it - just a DAC that performs better than a pocket portable screen device, in a matching size and "transportability" as the C9 itself. So no hammers or extra tools are part of the story.



For what’s its worth, the DX300 + Romi BX-2 Plus sounds eerily close to my Chord HugoTT2 and Mscaler stack. The Chords are still better, but the former combo is a super enjoyable listen that you could take with you everywhere. 

Can’t wait to checkout some more C9 reviews as I want to try a portable Tube amp!


----------



## Whitigir

it is all subjective matters really.  For myself, I have been wanting a dedicated full blown portable amplifier like the C9 for so long.  The Mass KOBO was the closest I wanted to pull the trigger , but the gain and power is also too limited.  Now the C9 comes out even with Tubes and true balanced, the power is 2X as powerful than Burson Amp LOL


----------



## bluestorm1992

DarginMahkum said:


> Yeah, as "affordable" as R8, MAX and especially as SP2000 can be. Nowhere in my description any kind of limitation in size or price is mentioned. So I am not asking for any of it - just a DAC that performs better than a pocket portable screen device, in a matching size and "transportability" as the C9 itself. So no hammers or extra tools are part of the story.


Then I think it really has to be Hugo 2. After all, a lot of people use it as their desktop DAC.


----------



## DarginMahkum (Jan 24, 2021)

MSA1133 said:


> For what’s its worth, the DX300 + Romi BX-2 Plus sounds eerily close to my Chord HugoTT2 and Mscaler stack. The Chords are still better, but the former combo is a super enjoyable listen that you could take with you everywhere.
> 
> Can’t wait to checkout some more C9 reviews as I want to try a portable Tube amp!



Frankly speaking, both R8 and SP2000 with BX2+ sound really awesome as portables. My question was mainly this: "If we are going that far to have this kind of a portable amp, why not take also take the DAC section to the next step?"


----------



## MSA1133

DarginMahkum said:


> Frankly speaking, both R8 and SP2000 with BX2+ sound really awesome as portables. My question was mainly this: "If we are going that far to have this kind of a portable amp, why not take also take the DAC section to the next step?"



Yeah, I’ve also been hearing and reading good feedback regarding the Luxury & Precision P6 Pro DAP with a R2R Ladder DAC. All of my DAPs either have AKM or ESS DAC chips, with the DX300 having Cirrus Logic.

With the latest advancement in tech, I’m sure we will be getting an awesome all in one package in the future.


----------



## DarginMahkum (Jan 24, 2021)

MSA1133 said:


> Yeah, I’ve also been hearing and reading good feedback regarding the Luxury & Precision P6 Pro DAP with a R2R Ladder DAC. All of my DAPs either have AKM or ESS DAC chips, with the DX300 having Cirrus Logic.
> 
> With the latest advancement in tech, I’m sure we will be getting an awesome all in one package in the future.



I am not sure about going for C9 at the moment - at least not until I hear some impressions of improvement from the fellow BX2+ owners. My desktop system is still my main setup I listen to during working. So until then, I will just lay on my back and read the impressions of people that bought it.


----------



## normie610

Whitigir said:


> Now the C9 comes out even with Tubes and true balanced, the power is 2X as powerful than Burson Amp LOL



Which Burson amp though? I believe the Soloist 3XP @ 16 ohm can churn out 8W vs C9’s 4.1W on balanced out.


----------



## Whitigir (Jan 24, 2021)

Conductor 3P for example.  Not only the C9 is more powerful, but also have higher SNR

at 300Ohms load, take Sennheiser HD800S (300).  The C9 is 320mW with Signal to Noise 114 if Tubes, and Solid State is 123Db in the mean while the Burson is only 160mW and 95dB Signal to Noises Ratio.

Yes, we are not talking about sound performances, just pure paper specs comparison

Both C9 and Conductor can do 4W @16ohms, and specs as pictures below.  The more the load, the faster the power output specs dropped for Burson Amp

Now, take the Burson and multiply 4x factors for 4x timbres choices, C9 is still cheaper, also is on the go, portable


normie610 said:


> Which Burson amp though? I believe the Soloist 3XP @ 16 ohm can churn out 8W vs C9’s 4.1W on balanced out.




Now for Soloist, the Soloist is similar, very powerful with light load, but at 300Ohms load, the C9 still is slightly more powerful with higher SNR


----------



## normie610 (Jan 24, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> Conductor 3P for example.  Not only the C9 is more powerful, but also have higher SNR
> 
> at 300Ohms load, take Sennheiser HD800S (300).  The C9 is 320mW with Signal to Noise 114 if Tubes, and Solid State is 123Db in the mean while the Burson is only 160mW and 95dB Signal to Noises Ratio.
> 
> ...



Ah I see, I didn’t realize the numbers for higher loads and I know you have HD800S, so what matters for your case is the power output @ 300 ohm


----------



## Whitigir

normie610 said:


> Ah I see, I didn’t realize the numbers for higher loads and I know you have HD800S, so what matters for your case is the power output @300 ohm


I have always wanted to maximize the Hd800S as much as possible , and while I could be portable as much as possible.  I am probably the first one but...just saying

The Hd800S is one crazy headphones, it is opened back, but even when you go on a bike trip, the ways the housing is angled, the perforated protective metal, and everything, they just deflect winds away from your ears.  You can virtually enjoy the Hd800S on a bike trip with a portable stack in your backpack!

For sweating purposes, you can buy Dakoni lamb skins if you prefer, or buy 2 sets of stock pads and just hand wash them here and there.

I use other in ears buds such as IER-Z1R, and EX1000 and the winds noises are so crazy =/


----------



## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> I have always wanted to maximize the Hd800S as much as possible , and while I could be portable as much as possible.  I am probably the first one but...just saying
> 
> The Hd800S is one crazy headphones, it is opened back, but even when you go on a bike trip, the ways the housing is angled, the perforated protective metal, and everything, they just deflect winds away from your ears.  You can virtually enjoy the Hd800S on a bike trip with a portable stack in your backpack!
> 
> ...


Make sure you ride safely with the music on!


----------



## normie610

Whitigir said:


> I have always wanted to maximize the Hd800S as much as possible , and while I could be portable as much as possible.  I am probably the first one but...just saying
> 
> The Hd800S is one crazy headphones, it is opened back, but even when you go on a bike trip, the ways the housing is angled, the perforated protective metal, and everything, they just deflect winds away from your ears.  You can virtually enjoy the Hd800S on a bike trip with a portable stack in your backpack!
> 
> ...



Ha! I never imagined a full size hi-end headphone is used while riding a bike  I did use my i4 when I was cycling, but after I got airpods max, I use them instead of i4 

and you’re right, the wind noise is crazy!


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> Make sure you ride safely with the music on!


Oh I ride on a trail, and with the open back nature of the Hd800S, I can still be aware of the surrounding while listening to music, unless I cranked it to deafening level lol


normie610 said:


> Ha! I never imagined a full size hi-end headphone is used while riding a bike  I did use my i4 when I was cycling, but after I got airpods max, I use them instead of i4
> 
> and you’re right, the wind noise is crazy!


you should try the Hd800S, you will be pleasantly surprised


----------



## Bosk

DarginMahkum said:


> I am yet to find a DAP that could provide the transparent, deep and focused sound of a proper desktop DAC/amp like T+A HA200 and none of the DAPs I have tried (MAX, R8, SP2000) could reach that level to be "close" to desktop level source so far. Maybe Hugo2, but so far I am not hopeful about the DAPs after experiencing what a proper desktop device can deliver.
> 
> So I really wish for a matching portable DAC for C9.


Based on my ownership experience so far & expectations for future potential, a DX300 with a heavily-modified internal amp module (either the shockingly-good stock amp or a future Nu-tube amp) might go close to satisfying your needs or at least get as close as current technology allows. Sorry to mention a competitor's product in this thread!

After saying that I'm a believer in "more money spent on amplification is always better" which is why I've had high hopes for the C9. If all-BA earphone bass was enough to satistisfy me (admittedly haven't demoed a U12T but have read its surprisingly good in that regard) I might not think amplification was so important and might focus more on cables instead. No doubt in my mind that today's DAPs still don't have enough quality juice to power DDs to their full potential. The alternative viewpoint is how lucky are we that earphones scale so unbelievably well with desktop-quality gear?


----------



## Wiljen (Jan 26, 2021)

twister6 said:


> And I assume probably replaceable too?


Should be easily replaced if it is standard 18650s and the 18650 has the highest energy density of any of the Li cells as for years it was the most commonly used cell so a lot of development went into it.   LG, Sanyo and Samsung all make legit 3500 mAh 18650 cells but the rated current output of the Sony used here is higher than any of those so for high current applications like an amplifier so the CDR (discharge rate) was more important than overall capacity.     

I can vouch for this seller if you need to purchase cells as I've used them for flashlight and RC apps in times past.  https://www.batteryjunction.com/sony-vtc6-18650-3000-flat.html

For the record there are a ton of fakes out there of the higher priced cells so finding a reputable vendor is important.


----------



## Whitigir

I also use these two vendors, and they ship out extremely fast.  Orbtronic has the highest CDR, if that is what you look for.  It is made in Japan cells and 35-40A for CDR which is 2X of the Sony, also has 3100mAh
https://www.orbtronic.com/
https://www.imrbatteries.com/


----------



## twister6

Wiljen said:


> Should be easily replaced if it is standard 18650s and the 18650 has the highest energy density of any of the Li cells as for years it was the most commonly used cell so a lot of development went into it.   LG, Sanyo and Samsung all make legit 3500 mAh 18650 cells but the rated current output of the Sony used here is higher than any of those so for high current applications like an amplifier so the CDR (discharge rate) was more important than overall capacity.
> 
> I can vouch for this seller if you need to purchase cells as I've used them for flashlight and RC apps in times past.  https://www.batteryjunction.com/sony-vtc6-18650-3000-flat.html
> 
> For the record there are a ton of fakes out there of the higher priced cells so finding a reputable vendor is important.



I'm scratching my head about which of mine messages "And I assume probably replaceable too?" did you quote in your reply lol!!!  I even searched the whole thread for this quote under my name and can't find it   Trying to remember in what content and when I posted it.


----------



## Punslayer

twister6 said:


> I'm scratching my head about which of mine messages "And I assume probably replaceable too?" did you quote in your reply lol!!! I even searched the whole thread for this quote under my name and can't find it  Trying to remember in what content and when I posted it.



If you click your ID above the quote it will take you to the post.  It's #15 in the thread, so a little while ago.


----------



## twister6

Punslayer said:


> If you click your ID above the quote it will take you to the post.  It's #15 in the thread, so a little while ago.



Funny, didn't find it in search, but thanks for the pointer!  So many years on Head-fi and I learned something new today   Yes, I see it now, it was early on before we knew the spec.


----------



## Whitigir

twister6 said:


> Funny, didn't find it in search, but thanks for the pointer!  So many years on Head-fi and I learned something new today   Yes, I see it now, it was early on before we knew the spec.


at least you guessed it right, and I blame you for the reason I am buying one.....


----------



## twister6

Whitigir said:


> at least you guessed it right, and I blame you for the reason I am buying one.....



Try to explain this logic to your wife, Vince:  Alex guessed that C9 will have a replaceable battery, so now I have to buy this amplifier


----------



## Vitaly2017

twister6 said:


> Try to explain this logic to your wife, Vince:  Alex guessed that C9 will have a replaceable battery, so now I have to buy this amplifier



Well he sold dmp do you imagine how much cash buffer that brings in 😛 you can buy 2 C9!


----------



## Wiljen

twister6 said:


> I'm scratching my head about which of mine messages "And I assume probably replaceable too?" did you quote in your reply lol!!!  I even searched the whole thread for this quote under my name and can't find it   Trying to remember in what content and when I posted it.



You know you can click the little up arrow next to the name on quoted text and it takes you to the source right?


----------



## twister6

Wiljen said:


> You know you can click the little up arrow next to the name on quoted text and it takes you to the source right?


 
I do now


----------



## Whitigir

This is currently the best 18650 I have searched by far


----------



## DaYooper

Do we know yet which batteries are going to come with the amp? And if one orders a spare battery pack, wouldn't that have the same batteries or is it just a holder?


----------



## Whitigir (Jan 26, 2021)

DaYooper said:


> Do we know yet which batteries are going to come with the amp? And if one orders a spare battery pack, wouldn't that have the same batteries or is it just a holder?


It comes with  4 x Sony US18650VTC6 (3000mAh 3.7V) lithium batteries.

not sure about the modules question, but I will just buy batteries and chargers, then swap them out as needed.  I think for traveling purposes, the battery modules as a spare should have a full encased closure, so that you can fly safely with it ?


----------



## Andykong

The Cayin C9 product page is finally up and run, check it out if are interested in C9. 

I spend two weeks to adopt the Chinese product page into the current format, I must say some of the C9 details are beyond my reach even when the Engineer tried to explain to me.  Hopefully those are the more technical know-how that won't affect the usage or decision making of consumers.


----------



## Whitigir

Andykong said:


> The Cayin C9 product page is finally up and run, check it out if are interested in C9.
> 
> I spend two weeks to adopt the Chinese product page into the current format, I must say some of the C9 details are beyond my reach even when the Engineer tried to explain to me.  Hopefully those are the more technical know-how that won't affect the usage or decision making of consumers.


Can it be used as Preamp to output toward large stereos Amplifier ?


----------



## s6323859

Whitigir said:


> @Andykong for the 18650 purposes, I assumes that the C9 can charge itself, so the best battery kind is the bare battery UnProtected right ? Flat ? Or button head ?



Same question here. There are too many  different types of 18650. Which is suitable for C9?


----------



## Wiljen

Whitigir said:


> This is currently the best 18650 I have searched by far


my bet would be strip the casing off and that is either a Panasonic or LG cell - I have several of them too


----------



## Wiljen

s6323859 said:


> Same question here. There are too many  different types of 18650. Which is suitable for C9?



Based on the original spec, it is using Sony VTC6 cells which are unprotected flat tops.     Here's the spec sheet for the OEM cell:  https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0481/9678/0183/files/sony_vtc6_data_sheet.pdf?v=1605015770


----------



## Whitigir

Wiljen said:


> my bet would be strip the casing off and that is either a Panasonic or LG cell - I have several of them too


Interesting, does Panasonic or LG have 30-40A CDR?


Wiljen said:


> Based on the original spec, it is using Sony VTC6 cells which are unprotected flat tops.     Here's the spec sheet for the OEM cell:  https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0481/9678/0183/files/sony_vtc6_data_sheet.pdf?v=1605015770


I also think as long as it is unprotected, it doesn’t matter if it is flat or button top as they are similar in sizes ?


----------



## newworld666

It seems the C9 is with less than 10V output, around 2x1W for 42 Ohms (no idea if it's in both A or AB class). 
I am afraid the C9 should be a bit under powered for some headphones (like HEDD's one at least to help to get some real kicks in low and ultra low frequencies and stay clear and deep without being muddy).

The Centrance M8V2 can deliver in class A more or less 11V and 2x1.4W for 42 Ohms (20V peek power)
The iFi  diablo can deliver probably more than 12V and 2x1.8W for 42 ohms (Class AB probably ?)
Even the reference in transportable DAC Amps which is the DMP Z1 is 2x1.5W 16Ohms with good capacitors.. which can produce more or less 2x1.15W for 42Ohms (?).

I was expecting the C9 in a higher power class, like recent iFi's portable items.


----------



## Whitigir (Jan 27, 2021)

newworld666 said:


> It seems the C9 is with less than 10V output, around 2x1W for 42 Ohms (no idea if it's in both A or AB class).
> I am afraid the C9 should be a bit under powered for some headphones (like HEDD's one at least to help to get some real kicks in low and ultra low frequencies and stay clear and deep without being muddy).
> 
> The Centrance M8V2 can deliver in class A more or less 11V and 2x1.4W for 42 Ohms (20V peek power)
> ...


And you get all of this figures , how ?

This is CEntrance M8 V2, clearly states 360mW 47 ohms.  Even at 150ohms, the C9 is 647mW and at 300 ohms it is 320mW already


----------



## newworld666 (Jan 27, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> And you get all of this figures , how ?
> 
> This is CEntrance M8 V2, clearly states 360mW 47 ohms.  Even at 150ohms, the C9 is 647mW and at 300 ohms it is 320mW already



Those figures are calculated with what I can read from the specs on their website for the M8V2, I translate it to 2x1.4W with 11V at 42 ohms ? I am using the hot side with XLR4 connection.
The cold side with the 2.5mm balanced plug is claimed to be something only half of the amps activated of what are used for the hot side (XLR4).
The cold side is intended to be used with sensitive IEM or for much longer battery life (15h with stamina activated too).



As it is coherent with my A/B comparison with my A&K Kann Alpha which is far to give the volume and clear and deep impacts as the Centrance M8V2 can produce with my HEDDphones, I think I must not be very far from my approximate calculations.

And for the C9, it seems to be clearly indicated on their website to be at max 2.6W for 32ohms, so I calculated it should be less than 2x1W at 42ohms with 9.2V




But I accept I can be wrong in those figures.


----------



## Whitigir

It appears the CE have additional amp stage for XLR, otherwise it would make no senses.  However, I am not running any XLR but 4.4 and I would like my Korg Tubes with removable batteries.  Also for my need at 800S and 300 ohms, the C9 is totally my cup of tea


----------



## newworld666 (Jan 27, 2021)

As it was a huge size amp .. I was expecting some more power in class A for the C9.. 
For sure, I am a bit obsessed to be free to move in my home to listen to music where I want with my HEDDphone.. 
But with less than 2x1.5W at 42ohms there is for sure a real loss in the kicks the HEDDphone is able to give with low and ultra-low frequencies with clear, fast and deep impacts. Those kicks are even more impressive than my closed headphones like Ultrasone Ed15 veritas, Z7M2 and even my IEM IER-Z1R.

*But I understand as it is announced, the C9 must be a very nice Item for you and many others.*


----------



## Whitigir

newworld666 said:


> As it was a huge size amp .. I was expecting some more power in class A ..
> But I understand as it is announced, the C9 must be a very nice Item for you and many others.


The size is barely the width of an IPhone 12 Pro Max , also the length, not huge at all


----------



## kkklauy

Whitigir said:


> I am getting ready for my C9!!! The end game interconnect


Where did you order it ? May I know the price pls?


----------



## Andykong

Mshenay said:


> I hope Cayin launched a desktop solution soon! The Apex Sangaku was one of if not the best hybrid Tube Amp I've heard and it ran the the Korg Nu Tubes, I'd love to see another desktop design built around it
> 
> Either way this looks like an astonishing portable!



Unfortunately, we don't have any plan to use Nutube for desktop product.  We prefer to use transformer coupled designed for desktop tube amplifier and regular vacuum tube works better in this design.


----------



## Whitigir

Andykong said:


> Unfortunately, we don't have any plan to use Nutube for desktop product.  We prefer to use transformer coupled designed for desktop tube amplifier and regular vacuum tube works better in this design.


Does that mean you and Cayin are saying that Korg Tubes are bad and not worth it to put in the Desktop designs ? Or there are no Korg tubes designs that is worth it to be in desktop gears yet ?

I wonder why you don’t prefer to make Korg tubes in desktop at all


----------



## Andykong (Jan 27, 2021)

Adnan Firoze said:


> I am fairly new to topologies and this "pre" option kind of confuses me.
> 
> Anyway, I use a Hugo2 with an r6pro as a transport. Now, this is what I want to do. If I only use my Hugo2 DAC and feed the signal to the c9 (note that Hugo2 is single ended), so it makes sense to feed SE to the c9 here. But most of my gear are 4.4mm terminated. With this setup I mentioned, what comes out of the balanced phone out of the c9? Clearly, the input is not balanced, but can it output through the balanced socket to the headphone/IEM (I know theoretically it won't be balanced) but I am just doing my research before shelling out the money.



If  you look at the Functional Diagram of C9 in page 1, you probably noticed that C9 has built-in SE/BAL conversion function in the circuitry.  So its perfectly alright, from functional point of view to feed the single end line output from Hugo or Hugo2 to C9 and use 4.4mm balanced phone out from C9.






While this function make life a lot easier to users, you cannot assume the SE input > BAL output is as good as the BAL input > BAL output. Take a closer look at the specification table closely, you'll notice the Dynamic range and SNR will drop a few dB when conversion is involved, to the extend that SE>SE direct will outperform SE>BAL conversion by 6-7 dB.  The biggest different lies on Channel Separation of SE>BAL against BAL > BAL direct, 17dB and 20dB different respectively. 

So you can enjoy the full benefit of extra power and handling (current) from differential amplification after the conversion, and the convenience of using any input for any output,  but there is a small cost to pay for in dynamic range, and SNR.


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> Does that mean you and Cayin are saying that Korg Tubes are bad and not worth it to put in the Desktop designs ? Or there are no Korg tubes designs that is worth it to be in desktop gears yet ?
> 
> I wonder why you don’t prefer to make Korg tubes in desktop at all



You missed a key word here: transformer coupled tube amplifier design.  We prefer traditional vacuum tube when we need to use output transformer.  We didn't say Nutube is bad for desktop gears.


----------



## Andykong (Jan 27, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> that sounds like a good plan, but better and more robust DAP would improve the experiences for sure.  The implementations of power rails, supplies, and conversions would hugely be effecting the line out performances.  May be N8 ? Or other TOTL like SP2K, LP P6Pro...etc...





DarginMahkum said:


> Actually DX220 might be a good choice to pair with something like C9. It is light small and has a very good DAC implementation.





arijitroy2 said:


> I did read somewhere in a Chinese blog that the R8 and C9 is a pretty good combo! So definetly looking forward to getting the C9!



I also believe they are very good matches to C9.  Infact, any DAP with high quality line out can become a good source to C9.  


If I remember it right, R8, for example, have un-amped balanced line out but DX220 does not offer that option.  Therefor R8 is in a slightly better position in the matching game if you are using balanced phone out (based on my explanation of SE/BAL conversion function in previous post), but if you are using single-end phone out, that both DAP works find with C9.


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> Maybe more, you can see people pairing P6Pro with C9 already.  Ideally, an R2R discrete with Tube portable is some Ancient dirty desires .
> 
> Or, Sigma Delta IC conversions with tubes Buffers stages on the line out into the external Tubes Amplifications !!!



I certainly want to find out if there is any magic between R2R discrete with Tube amplification.  As you have put it, this a dream from the old school audiophiles.  I am not so sure about Sigma Delta IC conversion because I have seen very good result when matched with both tube or solid state amplification.  

By the way, is there any portable Delta-Sigma DAP or DAC that offers tube buffered stages on the line out?  I didn't recall seeing something like that.


----------



## Whitigir (Jan 27, 2021)

Andykong said:


> By the way, is there any portable Delta-Sigma DAP or DAC that offers tube buffered stages on the line out?  I didn't recall seeing something like that.


Nope, not to my knowledge, waiting for Cayin  lol.  I would love to see a dedicated high-end DAC-Line out alone with both High end SS and Tubes features.  It would be a wet dream portable system for many with the C9


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> Very much the same here ! I can not wait actually!
> 
> The ability to take Phone out from about any DAPs and then Pre-Line In before amplifications is awesome.  The flexibility/applications is limitless



Indeed, the PRE-amp input mode has opened up a new horizon to portable amplifier IMHO.

Make sure you also compare the DAP line out to C9 line input vs DAP phone out to C9 PRE-amp input.  If you have a low noise low power phone out, this will be a very fun exercise and  you might be surprised by the result.  Add this to your previous  "*4 devices in one"* proposition, you now have 3 variables (Input mode, Class, Timbre), that give you 8 combinations in total:

Tube balanced Amp Class A in Line input mode
Tube balanced Amp Class AB in Line input mode
Solid State Balanced Amp Class A in Line input mode
Solid State Balanced Amp Class AB in Line input mode
Tube balanced Amp Class A in PRE-amp input mode
Tube balanced Amp Class AB in PRE-amp input mode
Solid State Balanced Amp Class A in PRE-amp input mode
Solid State Balanced Amp Class AB in PRE-amp input mode


----------



## DarginMahkum

Andykong said:


> By the way, is there any portable Delta-Sigma DAP or DAC that offers tube buffered stages on the line out? I didn't recall seeing something like that.



Looks like you just found a hole in the market. 



Andykong said:


> R8, for example, have un-amped balanced line out



Then, is it direct DAC output? I wonder the case with SP2000 that you select the output voltage - is it amped or DAC controlled.


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> Great!! Any ideas about silicone bands and leather case to carry it around in stackable style to a DAP?



We tried silicone bands, it doesn't work very well. the C9 is quite a bit larger than our DAP, and the N6ii has a fairly high  screen-to-body ratio, so it looks ugly and inconvenience to operate when you have two silicon bands around N6ii.  We didn't include a leather case to bundle N6ii with C9 because if we do that, we'll pass a wrong message to the public.  C9 is not meant for N6ii exclusively. We expect C9 to have much longer product life than any DAP in the market, so custom make a DAP + C9 leather case is only a short-term solution.

I am looking at other options right now and I probably will go for reusable silicone pads.  I have ordered some samples and hopefully it will arrive within a week, will share my experience if this work out OK.


----------



## Zambu

Haha there was in Shark Tank some entrepreneurs with their pads that "let you stick your phone to a wall" and I was like why would anyone stick their phone to a wall but that might work for audio stacks


----------



## davidmolliere

Whitigir said:


> Great!! Any ideas about silicone bands and leather case to carry it around in stackable style to a DAP?



Best thing I have found is based on @lafeuill recommandation of 3M Dual Lock when I did stack it was pure bliss


----------



## Andykong

newworld666 said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I haven't tried C9+HEDDphone, but I don't have a lot of hope on this.  The HEDDphone  has a very low sensitivity, C9 probably will have enough power to play it OK, but lack of headroom and probably a bit congested. 

Based on my personal experience and the mix and match impression from Marcus C9 review, I think it is safe to predict C9 will work with headphone at 150ohm impedance or below, and sensitivity at  90dB or above.


----------



## Andykong (Feb 15, 2021)

ahossam said:


> I definitely will getting C9 instead of new DAP, now I have to get A02 module for my N6ii.





ahossam said:


> My N6II is ready for C9



Glad you have grap an A02 Audio Motherboard.  We have sold out already.  As of today, the market price of the two AK4497 DAC chipset probably cost more than the original A02 cost .



ahossam said:


> Doubtful, Cayin released A02 module for N6II, I think this module is the only product meant to complement C9 from Cayin.



The A02 is meant to enable the N6ii to a "wider" platform, to go beyond portable, to work with active monitor (DeskFi) and Power Amplifier (Home Audio).  The only common denominator between A02 and C9 is PREamp output, so they do work well as a portable pair, but I think they are not built for each other "technically".


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> @Andykong for the 18650 purposes, I assumes that the C9 can charge itself, so the best battery kind is the bare battery UnProtected right ? Flat ? Or button head ?
> 
> Also , what is the Continuous Current Rating is the C9 drawing at Max ? Tubes balanced in/out class A
> 
> Thanks much





Whitigir said:


> It comes with  4 x Sony US18650VTC6 (3000mAh 3.7V) lithium batteries.
> 
> not sure about the modules question, but I will just buy batteries and chargers, then swap them out as needed.  I think for traveling purposes, the battery modules as a spare should have a full encased closure, so that you can fly safely with it ?



The C9 use unprotected 18650 batteries. 

The C9 can charge itself, you don't need to buy a seperate 18650 battery charger for that purpose.  In fact, the removable battery module can continue to serve as a 18650 charger on its own, after detached from C9.  You can also purchase additional battery modules from Cayin, that would be very convenient when you want to change the C9 battery, just slip out your first battery module from C9, and then slip in your second battery module immediately, you can continue your listening and then charge your first battery module with a QC3.0 USB-C power bank.  Or if you want to AB compare the sound signature of two different set of 18650 batteries, you can perform fast switching when you have two battery modules.  In fact, for short term audition with C9 placed on a stable service, you can even left out the two screws that secure the battery module to C9 chassis TEMPORARILY. 



Whitigir said:


> It is super duper Important !!!
> 
> *Batteries:*
> Technically, I have words confirming from Cayin that if you want the best for your C9 in batteries, go with *Higher Current Discharge Rating (CDR) and low Internal Resistance*.  *It effects headroom and transients*, and this is where the fun comes to!!!! We all hear things differently and our gears are different too!! So is sources and IC



That's always applicable to battery powered amplifier, from performance point of view.  Sound signature is another issue.


----------



## Whitigir (Jan 27, 2021)

Andykong said:


> The C9 use unprotected 18650 batteries.
> 
> The C9 can charge itself, you don't need to buy a seperate 18650 battery charger for that purpose.  In fact, the removable battery module can continue to serve as a 18650 charger on its own, after detached from C9.  You can also purchase additional battery modules from Cayin, that would be very convenient when you want to change the C9 battery, just slip out your first battery module from C9, and then slip in your second battery module immediately, you can continue your listening and then charge your first battery module with a QC3.0 USB-C power bank.  Or if you want to AB compare the sound signature of two different set of 18650 batteries, you can perform fast switching when you have two battery modules.  In fact, for short term audition with C9 placed on a stable service, you can even left out the two screws that secure the battery module to C9 chassis TEMPORARILY.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the answers, a little late as I already bought 32x cells of 18650 LOL!!! I am glad it was unprotected.  Btw, your recommendations of 300ohms or below headphones for the C9 has just vastly limited the applications for the C9.  A lot of people don’t just search any further really.  For the HD800s, 300mW@300ohms is enough.  Or should I wait for the successor of C9 ? :/


----------



## newworld666

Andykong said:


> I haven't tried C9+HEDDphone, but I don't have a lot of hope on this.  The HEDDphone  has a very low sensitivity, C9 probably will have enough power to play it OK, but lack of headroom and probably a bit congested.
> 
> Based on my personal experience and the mix and match impression from Marcus C9 review, I think it is safe to predict C9 will work with headphone at 150ohm impedance or below, and sensitivity at  90dB or above.



Thank you for your answer.. 
I had some hopes till now, but this morning when I saw your English translation of the Cayin website, I was thinking "maybe with such specs, the C9 will fall a bit too short for my needs" due to the too low sensitivity of the HEDDphone.


----------



## Whitigir

The DMP Z1 is only 1/4 of the Cayin C9.  It is 16Ohms, the DMP is 1500mW where C9 is 4100mW


----------



## DarginMahkum

newworld666 said:


> Thank you for your answer..
> I had some hopes till now, but this morning when I saw your English translation of the Cayin website, I was thinking "maybe with such specs, the C9 will fall a bit too short for my needs" due to the too low sensitivity of the HEDDphone.



What you are looking for is a Romi BX2+.


----------



## DaYooper

Dang this place anyway. Now I went and pre-ordered the C9, _*AND *_bought an A02 board for my N6ii. I guess now I'll have to remove that dap from the market. But where would I purchase/order the spare battery module and does it come loaded with batteries?


----------



## Whitigir (Jan 27, 2021)

DarginMahkum said:


> What you are looking for is a Romi BX2+.


What is that thing specifications? Oh 600mW@300ohms.  That is 2X the C9 and 5900mW@32ohms .....nice!!! Now I need to know how to get Dual Korg tubes  in it too ...

Or wait for C9 successor


----------



## newworld666

Whitigir said:


> The DMP Z1 is only 1/4 of the Cayin C9.  It is 16Ohms, the DMP is 1500mW where C9 is 4100mW



I think that the DMP Z1 is 2x1500mw at 16 Ohms.. so 3000mw at 16Ohms to compare to the 4100mw at 16 Ohms of the C9..


----------



## Whitigir

Now I am a little more discouraged to get a C9 at this price, since 300ohms is not recommended (from @Andykong), and BX2 is a lot more powerful, also a DMP used can be found for less than 6K.  If you get C9, a DAP and interconnect, it is already 4-5K


----------



## bluestorm1992

DaYooper said:


> Dang this place anyway. Now I went and pre-ordered the C9, _*AND *_bought an A02 board for my N6ii. I guess now I'll have to remove that dap from the market. But where would I purchase/order the spare battery module and does it come loaded with batteries?


I should come in a perfect working condition - just plug and play.


----------



## DaYooper

Whitigir said:


> Now I am a little more discouraged to get a C9 at this price, since 300ohms is not recommended (from @Andykong), and BX2 is a lot more powerful, also a DMP used can be found for less than 6K.  If you get C9, a DAP and interconnect, it is already 4-5K


Woah there pardner, you haven't heard it yet. We drive the phones in question with far less than one watt so I'm thinkin 4 plus watts won't be any issue at all.


----------



## Wiljen (Jan 27, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> Interesting, does Panasonic or LG have 30-40A CDR?
> 
> I also think as long as it is unprotected, it doesn’t matter if it is flat or button top as they are similar in sizes ?



The trick on the high CDR cells is most have much lower capacity with the highest being about 38A but only 2000mAh.   The best LG cell at present is 30A if memory serves but only 2000 mAh.   Panasonic hasn't released a cell over 10A (also from memory) instead focusing on high cap as they were the first to break 3000, then 3100, then 3400 mAh

as for button top vs flat top - it sometimes makes a difference depending on the size and shape of the contact pad in the device.  if it is designed for a flat top, a button will usually work but those designed for a button may not work with flats as they fail to make a good contact.   (Seen that too many times).


----------



## Whitigir (Jan 27, 2021)

I am torn :/ did I make the right choice ?


----------



## DaYooper

Whitigir said:


> I am torn :/ did I make the right choice ?


Well, if you didn't then you'll be the first to have one in the used market?  I think it might just be a very nice device. I'm optimistic because I ordered one too.  I like it because it has a simple purpose: amplify.


----------



## EagleWings

Whitigir said:


> Thanks for the answers, a little late as I already bought 32x cells of 18650 LOL!!! I am glad it was unprotected.  Btw, your recommendations of 300ohms or below headphones for the C9 has just vastly limited the applications for the C9.  A lot of people don’t just search any further really.  For the HD800s, 300mW@300ohms is enough.  Or should I wait for the successor of C9 ? :/



Some of the highly recommended amps for HD800 or any 300ohm dynamic driver headphones for that matter, don’t even output 300mW at 300Ohm. So I think you should be good.


----------



## newworld666

I don't know exactly with HD800 and even less with C9, but as far I could see with google, the HD800 is 300Ohms *with 102db sensitivity* .. the Cayin C9 seems to provide much more power than what the HD800 will be able to bear at 300Ohms.

For the HD800 theoretically the max power should be less 70mw à 300Ohms ... so it looks like the C9 can produce far more power (double ?) than what the HD800 needs.
With my HEDDphone, it is a totally different story with 87Db sensitivity .. Required power is monstrous compared the HD800, the C9 is just falling too short for such low sentivity.


----------



## jmills8

newworld666 said:


> I don't know exactly with HD800 and even less with C9, but as far I could see with google, the HD800 is 300Ohms *with 102db sensitivity* .. the Cayin C9 seems to provide much more power than what the HD800 will be able to bear at 300Ohms.
> 
> For the HD800 theoretically the max power should be less 70mw à 300Ohms ... so it looks like the C9 can produce far more power (double ?) than what the HD800 needs.
> With my HEDDphone, it is a totally different story with 87Db sensitivity .. Required power is monstrous compared the HD800, the C9 is just falling too short for such low sentivity.


Fun to chit chat and socialize.


----------



## newworld666

jmills8 said:


> Fun to chit chat and socialize.


----------



## DarginMahkum

Whitigir said:


> What is that thing specifications? Oh 600mW@300ohms.  That is 2X the C9 and 5900mW@32ohms .....nice!!! Now I need to know how to get Dual Korg tubes  in it too ...
> 
> Or wait for C9 successor



That thing is too powerful, in fact Romi recommends using the high gain mode with headphones >150 ohms. It was reported that it can drive both 1266 TC and HEDDphone to very good levels. But for sure C9 will drive your HD800S much better than any DAP out there. I don't think you will not be satisfied with it. Or you can just buy them both and let us know.


----------



## Whitigir

newworld666 said:


> I don't know exactly with HD800 and even less with C9, but as far I could see with google, the HD800 is 300Ohms *with 102db sensitivity* .. the Cayin C9 seems to provide much more power than what the HD800 will be able to bear at 300Ohms.
> 
> For the HD800 theoretically the max power should be less 70mw à 300Ohms ... so it looks like the C9 can produce far more power (double ?) than what the HD800 needs.
> With my HEDDphone, it is a totally different story with 87Db sensitivity .. Required power is monstrous compared the HD800, the C9 is just falling too short for such low sentivity.


What happens to the recommendations of below 150ohms and higher than 90db sensitivity ?


----------



## newworld666 (Jan 28, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> What happens to the recommendations of below 150ohms and higher than 90db sensitivity ?



Of course Cayin People know far better than me what should sounds the best with the C9, but I wonder what can of issue with 300Ohms and 102db .. basically, there is a kind of compensation between sensitivity and resistance
this link gives an idea of what power is needed for a level of sound pressure Headphones Power Calculator (digizoid.com)

I just said, that with 102 db sensitivity, it should make the HD800 rather easy to drive even with 300ohms (compared to the HEDDphone).
It would be a surprise that the C9 will be "incompatible" with 300ohms headphones or sound somewhere altered.


----------



## Andykong

DarginMahkum said:


> Great! Any plans to release a portable DAC only device to complement this?





DarginMahkum said:


> I am yet to find a DAP that could provide the transparent, deep and focused sound of a proper desktop DAC/amp like T+A HA200 and none of the DAPs I have tried (MAX, R8, SP2000) could reach that level to be "close" to desktop level source so far. Maybe Hugo2, but so far I am not hopeful about the DAPs after experiencing what a proper desktop device can deliver.
> 
> So I really wish for a matching portable DAC for C9.





DarginMahkum said:


> Frankly speaking, both R8 and SP2000 with BX2+ sound really awesome as portables. My question was mainly this: "If we are going that far to have this kind of a portable amp, why not take also take the DAC section to the next step?"



We don't have any plan to release a portable DAC at the moment, its not on our 2021 product plan so you can assume it won't happen. 

Officially, on behalf of cayin, I should stop here.  

-------------------------------------

I do agree with you that desktop and portable DAC are not in the same line, and the most important different is power supply and components/circuit design we put in to accomplish the DAC Chipset.  We simply can't achieve the same standard with a single piece of 3.7V lithium battery.  For the same reason, even a portable DAC without Player and Amplifier function, it will still not solve the problem completely, better, but it won't be the same thing.  It's just like our C9, we firmly believe we have done our best to deliver one of the very best, if not the best, portable headphone amplifier in the market, but it is still not at the same level as a desktop DAC at the same price range.  On the bright side, C9 can aim at earphones and headphones that don't need the extra muscle of desktop amplifier, but a dedicated portable DAC doesn't have that kind of "selection" or exclusiveness.  

From commercial point of view, we don't expect to sell the C9 at the same volume as our N6ii or N8 DAP (per year), but the C9 can last for 8-10 years while  DAP only last for 1 year to 1.5 years.  This will justify the resource required to develop and produce  C9.  Unfortunately, a dedicated DAC will only last for 1-2 years, three years top, with the relatively low sales volume per year, I don't think this is a sustainable business project.


----------



## DarginMahkum

Andykong said:


> Unfortunately, a dedicated DAC will only last for 1-2 years, three years top, with the relatively low sales volume per year, I don't think this is a sustainable business project.



Thank you Andy for your honest opinions and insight into the business point. It is very much appreciated.

By the way, when will the C9 be delivered to EU dealers?


----------



## Whitigir (Jan 28, 2021)

kkklauy said:


> Where did you order it ? May I know the price pls?


It is DIY cables, and is a little expensive. How about a dedicated DAC that also run on 4-5 pieces of 18650 too @Andykong ? That would supplies upto 20V no problems


----------



## Andykong

Bosk said:


> Based on my ownership experience so far & expectations for future potential, a DX300 with a heavily-modified internal amp module (either the shockingly-good stock amp or a future Nu-tube amp) might go close to satisfying your needs or at least get as close as current technology allows. Sorry to mention a competitor's product in this thread!
> 
> After saying that I'm a believer in "more money spent on amplification is always better" which is why I've had high hopes for the C9. If all-BA earphone bass was enough to satistisfy me (admittedly haven't demoed a U12T but have read its surprisingly good in that regard) I might not think amplification was so important and might focus more on cables instead. No doubt in my mind that today's DAPs still don't have enough quality juice to power DDs to their full potential. The alternative viewpoint is how lucky are we that earphones scale so unbelievably well with desktop-quality gear?



You don't need to feel sorry because you have mentioned a competitor's product.  As long as you are sharing with an open heart, your honest opinion or experience, and don't mind reading a lot of Cayin stuff in due course, you are very welcome！   

I concur your viewpoint whole heartedly.  When I receive the first C9 Engineering sample, I dig out my "ancient" IE800 and give it a try, and I was completely floored.  My IE800 is re-cabled with ear hook but nothing fancy, and I only use 3.5mm single-ended all the way through. I had a lot of happy moment with this pair of IE800 back in the good old days (paired with Cayin N6, naturally) but now I think I am a fool when I read my previous impression.


----------



## Whitigir

So is the C9 in stock at US dealer yet ? I wonder when it will start shipping.  I am still thinking a D9 (DAC-9) will go together nicely with C9, just as long as it sport 4-5 18650.  Desktop normally run 12V-20V.  So I don’t see it being a limitations at all.  May be current consumptions and heat dissipation, but I am sure Cayin can be creative and work up something

Not to mention the new Gan-Fet technology, and the possibility to hook external DC voltage directly, aka external LPSU.  I see a huge market to go with C9


----------



## Andykong (Jan 28, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> I have always wanted to maximize the Hd800S as much as possible , and while I could be portable as much as possible.  I am probably the first one but...just saying
> 
> The Hd800S is one crazy headphones, it is opened back, but even when you go on a bike trip, the ways the housing is angled, the perforated protective metal, and everything, they just deflect winds away from your ears.  You can virtually enjoy the Hd800S on a bike trip with a portable stack in your backpack!
> 
> ...



The EX1000 is a beautify IEM, I have it twice: lost a pair, bought a replacement, and then lost again, so that tells how much I love it. 

The biggest problem of EX1000 is isolation, and because of the 16mm "large" dynamic driver, Sony need to make the shell "ported" to release the internal pressure, the ported shell act like a wind tunnel when you cycling,  so I think BA IEMS are probably a better choice for this scenario.

If you have the IER-Z1R, and EX1000, I am sure the C9 will work with them very well.  I tried Z1R and really likes it, and  I guess EX1000 will be in the same boat.

But honestly, I can't imagine wearing HD800 or HD800S on my bicycle.  It really works? Why not HD820?


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> Can it be used as Preamp to output toward large stereos Amplifier ?



No, you can't. The C9 only provided two output options: 3.5mm phone out and 4.4mm phone out, there is no line out feature in C9, and the output is too powerful to use as a pseudo Pre out.


----------



## Andykong

Wiljen said:


> Should be easily replaced if it is standard 18650s and the 18650 has the highest energy density of any of the Li cells as for years it was the most commonly used cell so a lot of development went into it.   LG, Sanyo and Samsung all make legit 3500 mAh 18650 cells but the rated current output of the Sony used here is higher than any of those so for high current applications like an amplifier so the CDR (discharge rate) was more important than overall capacity.
> 
> I can vouch for this seller if you need to purchase cells as I've used them for flashlight and RC apps in times past.  https://www.batteryjunction.com/sony-vtc6-18650-3000-flat.html
> 
> For the record there are a ton of fakes out there of the higher priced cells so finding a reputable vendor is important.





Wiljen said:


> The trick on the high CDR cells is most have much lower capacity with the highest being about 38A but only 2000mAh.   The best LG cell at present is 30A if memory serves but only 2000 mAh.   Panasonic hasn't released a cell over 10A (also from memory) instead focusing on high cap as they were the first to break 3000, then 3100, then 3400 mAh
> 
> as for button top vs flat top - it sometimes makes a difference depending on the size and shape of the contact pad in the device.  if it is designed for a flat top, a button will usually work but those designed for a button may not work with flats as they fail to make a good contact.   (Seen that too many times).



Wiljen is an expert in 18650 battery, you can tell by reading his very simple but right to the point posts on the subject.  

I am almost ignorant about 18650, so please, give me a hand, you are my life jacket.


----------



## svmusa

Andy - any plans for a desktop version of this? Will be a nice to have an amp with tube and SS timber together without the hassle of a traditional tube setup.


----------



## DarginMahkum

So, I reached out to the German distributor today. The price will be about €2200. They haven't received them yet but hopefully next week or so. I asked about his sound impressions (he already tried a demo unit) and he said "sounds like a more powerful N8", but it wasn't a detailed evaluation.


----------



## Whitigir

DarginMahkum said:


> So, I reached out to the German distributor today. The price will be about €2200. They haven't received them yet but hopefully next week or so. I asked about his sound impressions (he already tried a demo unit) and he said "sounds like a more powerful N8", but it wasn't a detailed evaluation.


Question of the day
What about an N8 + A more powerful N8 equal ?


----------



## DarginMahkum

Whitigir said:


> Question of the day
> What about an N8 + A more powerful N8 equal ?



N89C ?


----------



## s6323859

Andykong said:


> The C9 use unprotected 18650 batteries.
> 
> The C9 can charge itself, you don't need to buy a seperate 18650 battery charger for that purpose.  In fact, the removable battery module can continue to serve as a 18650 charger on its own, after detached from C9.  You can also purchase additional battery modules from Cayin, that would be very convenient when you want to change the C9 battery, just slip out your first battery module from C9, and then slip in your second battery module immediately, you can continue your listening and then charge your first battery module with a QC3.0 USB-C power bank.  Or if you want to AB compare the sound signature of two different set of 18650 batteries, you can perform fast switching when you have two battery modules.  In fact, for short term audition with C9 placed on a stable service, you can even left out the two screws that secure the battery module to C9 chassis TEMPORARILY.



Hi @Andykong where can buy battery module?


----------



## xand (Jan 29, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> I am torn :/ did I make the right choice ?



The way I like to determine the peak power a headphone requires, is to take the maximum impedance across 20-20k, and the lowest sensitivity across 20-20k, and put that into a calculator with an expected output of 115 dB SPL:

calculators e.g.
http://www.digizoid.com/headphones-power.html
https://www.headphonesty.com/headphone-power-calculator/

Using numbers for the HD 800 from https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/sennheiser-hd-800.php#rw2

The max impedance is a little difficult to determine, but it looks like maybe 610 ohms. Minimum sensitivity seems to be approx. 96 dB SPL/V.

These are the results:






I don't know what the C9 is rated at (or produces), at 610ohms, but if it does 320mW at 300ohms as rated, perhaps it'll do about half at 610ohms, which might be enough


----------



## Andykong

DarginMahkum said:


> Looks like you just found a hole in the market.
> 
> Then, is it direct DAC output? I wonder the case with SP2000 that you select the output voltage - is it amped or DAC controlled.



Yes, we just spotted a hole, but .... sustainable?    

The interesting thing with C9 is that you can AB compare the line out and phone out of SP2000 and pick the combination that you preferred.    If you like the sound signature of SP2000 a lot, then the PRE-amp input mode probably will have a higher chance because the final sound signature will leans toward SP2000 in this mode.  Alternatively, C9 will play a slightly more dominating role when you use Line input mode.


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> The DMP Z1 is only 1/4 of the Cayin C9.  It is 16Ohms, the DMP is 1500mW where C9 is 4100mW





newworld666 said:


> I think that the DMP Z1 is 2x1500mw at 16 Ohms.. so 3000mw at 16Ohms to compare to the 4100mw at 16 Ohms of the C9..



My goodness, this is a very innovative way to interpret our specification.  I have never come across any stereo amplifier manufacturer will quoted their power rating as TOTAL power of two channels in their specification table.  I have seen that happens with PMPO (Peak music power output, or something like that) or rated output level (in Vrms).  But I accept I can be wrong, so if you have seen something like that previously, please share with us, so I can learn to do a better job when I compile specification table.

By the way, on the C9 product page that you quoted previously, it stated clearly, on key vision page, that C9 will output 2600mW per channel @ 32 ohm.  Isn't that just logical that the output at 16 ohm loading is 4100mW per channel?


----------



## xand

Haha love the snark.


----------



## DaYooper

Still haven't seen any expected time frame when I'll be able to put all the watts on my head though.


----------



## xand

DaYooper said:


> Still haven't seen any expected time frame when I'll be able to put all the watts on my head though.



If it helps - my order left China yesterday (to my dealer), expected arrival at dealer is next Friday. 

I'm in Singapore.


----------



## Andykong

newworld666 said:


> It seems the C9 is with less than 10V output, around 2x1W for 42 Ohms (no idea if it's in both A or AB class).
> I am afraid the C9 should be a bit under powered for some headphones (like HEDD's one at least to help to get some real kicks in low and ultra low frequencies and stay clear and deep without being muddy).
> 
> The Centrance M8V2 can deliver in class A more or less 11V and 2x1.4W for 42 Ohms (20V peek power)
> ...






newworld666 said:


> Those figures are calculated with what I can read from the specs on their website for the M8V2, I translate it to 2x1.4W with 11V at 42 ohms ? I am using the hot side with XLR4 connection.
> The cold side with the 2.5mm balanced plug is claimed to be something only half of the amps activated of what are used for the hot side (XLR4).
> The cold side is intended to be used with sensitive IEM or for much longer battery life (15h with stamina activated too).
> 
> ...



I am not interested to compare rated power output at micro level. In my experience, the different between 10V and 11V or 12V output is insignificant unless other factors such as output impedance, current capability, responsiveness of power supply, ... etc etc are all equal.  Some of these parameters are not described from published information, let alone quantifiable and compare as if they are linear variables.  

To further illustrate my point, I'll prefer a 10V high current headphone amplifier over 15V moderated current headphone amplifier if I were to focus on low impedance headphones.  Different headphone designs have different driving and handling requirements.   Take a 50 Ohm double-sided magnetic arrays planar driver and compare it to 50 Ohm dynamic driver, the planar will consume more current by design, and you need a very responsive power supply to control the movement of the dynamic driver accurately.  

For the record, the rated output of C9 are the same in Class A and Class AB.  We don't lower the output at Class A because our power supply circuit can sustain the output in regardless of Class A or Class AB. The downside is, the inefficient nature of Class A will drain more power when the output remain the same as Class AB.  Take a closer look at the battery duration table in our specification if this is important to you.

Last but not least, your calculation/estimation are questionable.  As you have pointed out, 2.6W for 32ohms is roughly 9.2V, but 1W for 42ohm is nowhere near 9.2V, that's only 6.48V, something is missing in your calculation.


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> Thanks for the answers, a little late as I already bought 32x cells of 18650 LOL!!! I am glad it was unprotected.  Btw, your recommendations of 300ohms or below headphones for the C9 has just vastly limited the applications for the C9.  A lot of people don’t just search any further really.  For the HD800s, 300mW@300ohms is enough.  Or should I wait for the successor of C9 ? :/





Whitigir said:


> Now I am a little more discouraged to get a C9 at this price, since 300ohms is not recommended (from @Andykong), and BX2 is a lot more powerful, also a DMP used can be found for less than 6K.  If you get C9, a DAP and interconnect, it is already 4-5K





newworld666 said:


> I don't know exactly with HD800 and even less with C9, but as far I could see with google, the HD800 is 300Ohms *with 102db sensitivity* .. the Cayin C9 seems to provide much more power than what the HD800 will be able to bear at 300Ohms.
> 
> For the HD800 theoretically the max power should be less 70mw à 300Ohms ... so it looks like the C9 can produce far more power (double ?) than what the HD800 needs.
> With my HEDDphone, it is a totally different story with 87Db sensitivity .. Required power is monstrous compared the HD800, the C9 is just falling too short for such low sentivity.



Suddenly HD800 is all over the thread, I'll try to response them in one post.

Did I vastly limited the applications for the C9?  A lot of people don’t just search any further?  I don't really think so, but if this really happened, I'll continue without hesitation.  To be honest, I have shared similar thoughts previously (e.g. *HERE*), I am pretty consistent in steering people away from using HD800 for portable.  

To me, using HD800 with battery powered portable amplifier is workable, some portable amp are better then others for this scenario, but please accept the reality that there are limitation you can't solve by more money.  If you only listen to "simple"music, with one of two instrument that does not required a lot of dynamic (bot macro or micro), 

First of all, those who try to work out the power requirement of HD800 based on electrical engineering principles and specification, I can tell that you know nothing about HD800, or the real game of headphone/amplifier synergy.  The reality is, the formula only tell you how much power you need to make is sound loud, but that is not our requirements, right?  We want to hear it sing, not to hear how loud it can go.

The biggest problem with battery powered headphone amplifier and HD800 (or 300ohm headphones in general) is insufficient voltage swing.  The impedance ranges of HD800 swing between 340 and 650 ohms (*HERE*), to handle this kind of impedance swing, you amplifier must have very respectable voltage swing.  So what kind of voltage swing can you achieve if your amplifier is powered by one 3.7V lithium battery? Sure you incorporate DC to DC regulation circuit to boost the voltage to 10V, 20V, 30V, but experience amplifier builders will tells you that there are procs and cons in using booster circuit, especially when you are going for 20x or 30x voltage gain. The biggest question is, can the booster circuit response fast enough? will it compromise the transient of the playback?  In desktop implementation, we can install arrays of capacitors as buffer to support short-term power requirement, the capacitors are not expensive, nor are they difficult to implement, but they need space to start with, something that portable headphone amplifier are lacking. 

To certain extend, the power supply of C9 starts at a much better off situation. The four 18650 lithium batteries are connected as a ±8.4V (i.e., 16.8V) battery power supply, this is significantly higher than the commonly used 3.7V USB rechargeable lithium battery.  We don't incorporate any DC to DC regulation circuit in our power line, making sure the power supply is direct, extremely fast responding and noise-free.  

Yes, we are better than many portable alternatives, but still, when compare to  ±24V power supply with a dozen of 20000 uF electrolytic capacitors (just make up some numbers for comparison purpose, please don't take it specifically), C9 is in a very disadvantage position.

There are other factors that makes HD800 or HD800S difficult on portable environment than other 250 ohms or 300ohms headphones, for example, its unique sound signature, huge soundstage, and music genre that are frequently associated with them, ... just to name a few.  These   I don't want to turn this thread into a HD800 mix and match thread, so I'll stop here.  I hope I have make my point: the problem is not whether C9 has enough output power to drive HD800 to 96dB, its the voltage swing that matters, and low-voltage battery powered amplifier has a congenital defect on this issue.


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> So is the C9 in stock at US dealer yet ? I wonder when it will start shipping.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





DaYooper said:


> Still haven't seen any expected time frame when I'll be able to put all the watts on my head though.





xand said:


> If it helps - my order left China yesterday (to my dealer), expected arrival at dealer is next Friday.
> 
> I'm in Singapore.



To answer similar questions at that same time: we have send out C9 to international dealer already, if they have an confirmed order with us, the package is out.  However the actual delivery date might be different because of logistic arrangement, waiting period at custom office, and local freight control to lithium battery powered device.   We can't keep track of the dates because some of them are FOB transactions.  Your local dealer will know better then me.


----------



## Nostoi

Andykong said:


> Suddenly HD800 is all over the thread, I'll try to response them in one post.
> 
> Did I vastly limited the applications for the C9?  A lot of people don’t just search any further?  I don't really think so, but if this really happened, I'll continue without hesitation.  To be honest, I have shared similar thoughts previously (e.g. *HERE*), I am pretty consistent in steering people away from using HD800 for portable.
> 
> ...



Thank you; very much appreciate your candid and honest response on this thread. The fixation on driving the HD800/S via a portable amp - and when cycling no less - seems rather strange to me, to put it politely.


----------



## DaYooper

Andykong said:


> Suddenly HD800 is all over the thread, I'll try to response them in one post.
> 
> Did I vastly limited the applications for the C9?  A lot of people don’t just search any further?  I don't really think so, but if this really happened, I'll continue without hesitation.  To be honest, I have shared similar thoughts previously (e.g. *HERE*), I am pretty consistent in steering people away from using HD800 for portable.
> 
> ...


That clears things up for me, and politely. Thanks.


----------



## xand (Jan 29, 2021)

Andykong said:


> To certain extend, the power supply of C9 starts at a much better off situation. The four 18650 lithium batteries are connected as a ±8.4V (i.e., 16.8V) battery power supply, this is significantly higher than the commonly used 3.7V USB rechargeable lithium battery.  We don't incorporate any DC to DC regulation circuit in our power line, making sure the power supply is direct, extremely fast responding and noise-free.
> 
> Yes, we are better than many portable alternatives, *but still, when compare to  ±24V power supply with a dozen of 20000 uF electrolytic capacitors* (just make up some numbers for comparison purpose, please don't take it specifically), C9 is in a very disadvantage position.
> 
> There are other factors that makes HD800 or HD800S difficult on portable environment than other 250 ohms or 300ohms headphones, for example, its unique sound signature, huge soundstage, and music genre that are frequently associated with them, ... just to name a few.  These   I don't want to turn this thread into a HD800 mix and match thread, so I'll stop here.  I hope I have make my point: the problem is not whether C9 has enough output power to drive HD800 to 96dB, *its the voltage swing that matters*, and low-voltage battery powered amplifier has a congenital defect on this issue.



Emphasis mine, above.

I think you're saying that more voltage swing is always better - if so, are you saying that a desktop is always better?

Or are you saying that for SOME headphones, the C9 is as good as a desktop (i.e. actually there is a sufficient voltage swing depending on headphone)?

If you're saying the desktop is always better then.. okay? Not sure that's been the point of the discussion around the HD800, though.

If you're saying that for SOME headphones, the C9 is as good as a desktop, then the question for the HD800 is which side of the line it falls on, and with respect your argument is a straw man fallacy -  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man. You're of course right that the cited measurements/calculations are primarily based on the possible volume in decibels, but a headphone amplifier is all about what voltage and current the amplifier can deliver anyway?

Your choice of voltage as the reason is quite interesting because voltage tends to be linked to the dB SPL target. Using a lower sensitivity number than from Stereophile (I used the minimum sensitivity from  https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/sennheiser-hd-800.php#rw2) - 96 dB SPL/V, the question should be whether, at all relevant impedence values, there is sufficient power, voltage, and current? Happily, the voltage doesn't change much, and the power seems to be something the C9 is capable of: As long as the dB SPL target is 115, if we use that minimum sensitivity number (96 dB SPL/V), whether the impedence is 1 or 700, the required voltage is below 9 V.

If we use the Stereophile reported sensitivity number (102 dB SPL/V), which is what Sennheiser itself publishes (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/lit_files/150621.pdf) and a dB SPL target of 115, the voltage required is even lower - always below 4.5V.

Try it out yourself, https://www.headphonesty.com/headphone-power-calculator/. (Note that I also tried to find a efficiency number - which should be in dB(1mW)), but it seems elusive). 

I'm very happy to be corrected, by the way - by Andy or anyone else. I may very well be misunderstanding or have missed something. For example, trying to calculate what voltage swing is required using the method above might be wrong - by all means please describe how the required voltage swing (to determine whether the headphone can be driven by a certain amp) might be calculated? 

While I agree that using HD800 while cycling is... an interesting use case - one far more common use case is being able to listen to the HD800 all around a house (depending, for example, on the furniture in each room, whether it is nice outside on the balcony or in a garden chair, and how quiet it happens to be at the relevant time) - and surely you can agree this scenario is where something like a C9 has an advantage, even over something like the Sony DMP-Z1 (which is 2.5kg), or heaven forbid an amp which requires a mains plug.


----------



## DaYooper

All of that makes sense from both perspectives so it all boils down to individual use case then,. As I said in a private conversation, for me I've always been content to roam around my house with just the DAP on my person, or just listen to the speaker systems or sometimes use the poly/mojo to have the roon access. But in the case of the HD800/S there almost always seems to be a little more that it needs. So, I moved from the C9 as my intended tube amp to an HA-6A desktop. Maybe it's just the big glowing tubes that intrigues me, some guys just can't resist shiny things, or the amount of power (testosterone poisoning) but it seemed the best solution for my head-fi station.


----------



## xand

To change the topic a little, is it safe to say that the Utopia can be driven well by the C9?


----------



## xand (Jan 29, 2021)

DaYooper said:


> I moved from the C9 as my intended tube amp *to an HA-6A desktop*. Maybe it's just the big glowing tubes that intrigues me, some guys just can't resist shiny things, or the amount of power (testosterone poisoning) but it seemed the best solution for my head-fi station.



No no, you need the HA-300B. Obviously.


----------



## DaYooper

xand said:


> No no, you need the HA-300B. Obviously.


Maybe, but the $1500 will soothe my disappointment for a while.


----------



## Whitigir

Doesn’t seem that Cayin started shipment of C9 until today.  It is gonna be a while to wait....and I thought release date was 20th instead of 30th LOL


----------



## jonstatt (Jan 31, 2021)

xand said:


> I think you're saying that more voltage swing is always better - if so, are you saying that a desktop is always better?
> 
> Or are you saying that for SOME headphones, the C9 is as good as a desktop (i.e. actually there is a sufficient voltage swing depending on headphone)?
> 
> I'm very happy to be corrected, by the way - by Andy or anyone else. I may very well be misunderstanding or have missed something. For example, trying to calculate what voltage swing is required using the method above might be wrong - by all means please describe how the required voltage swing (to determine whether the headphone can be driven by a certain amp) might be calculated?



I think Andy is being misunderstood. He didn't say the voltage wasn't sufficient. I think he is saying its the speed at which the voltage can swing from one point to another. The bigger the voltage required the more rapidly the swing needed. At battery power you are at a disadvantage especially if you are boosting output voltage above the battery voltage itself. @Andykong I believe you were referring actually to the slew rate

The C9 will potentially sound as good as desktop amps for headphones and iems intended for portable use. I.e. less demanding such as an Audeze 4z vs a 4.

The HD800 varies in impedance substantially across its frequency range. The calculator and stats are based on the output and drive at one frequency point typically.


----------



## xand (Jan 31, 2021)

jonstatt said:


> I think Andy is being misunderstood. He didn't say the voltage wasn't sufficient. He said its the speed at which the voltage can swing from one point to another. The bigger the voltage required the more rapidly the swing needed. At battery power you are at a disadvantage especially if you are boosting output voltage above the battery voltage itself. @Andykong I believe you were referring actually to the slew rate
> 
> The C9 will potentially sound as good as desktop amps for headphones and iems intended for portable use. I.e. less demanding such as an Audeze 4z vs a 4.
> 
> The HD800 varies in impedance substantially across its frequency range. The calculator and stats are based on the output and drive at one frequency point typically.



Thanks - assuming that's so, apart from simply seeing if a demo sounds good, is there any generally available method to calculate the slew rate requirement (or to determine the slew rate specification of an amplifier)? I did try a quick Google but nothing seemed on point.

I should mention that generally the impedence and sensitivity are available for each frequency (and I used the minimum sensitivity, as that was the "hardest" tests based on the algorithms the  calculator was using).

Edit: reading a bit more about slew rate it doesn't seem to be power source dependent as much as component dependent see for example - it's simply an op amp spec: https://www.ti.com/product/TLV2774


----------



## jonstatt (Jan 31, 2021)

xand said:


> Thanks - assuming that's so, apart from simply seeing if a demo sounds good, is there any generally available method to calculate the slew rate requirement (or to determine the slew rate specification of an amplifier)? I did try a quick Google but nothing seemed on point.
> 
> I should mention that generally the impedence and sensitivity are available for each frequency (and I used the minimum sensitivity, as that was the "hardest" tests based on the algorithms the  calculator was using).
> 
> Edit: reading a bit more about slew rate it doesn't seem to be power source dependent as much as component dependent see for example - it's simply an op amp spec: https://www.ti.com/product/TLV2774



That's because TI are quoting it in relation to their op amp chipsets. A better article is this
https://mynewmicrophone.com/what-is-amplifier-slew-rate-does-it-affect-performance/

In portable amplifiers the effect on transients in particular should be noted because typically a portable amp is running much nearer its limits compared to a power amplifier for a surround sound system.


----------



## xand

Thanks - so perhaps headphone amp manufacturers should also be reporting the number - and that way maybe it'll be possible to figure out based on comparisons amongst various amps for a specific headphone, what the headphone "requires"?

Andy is that what you meant? 

Any chance of specs for say the C9 and the iHA-6?


----------



## DarginMahkum

A new video on Facebook:

https://fb.watch/3oJnFsuhBG/


----------



## cheznous

Any reputable dealers in the UK that will be selling this? 
I normally buy from Hifonix but they are not dealers for Cayin.


----------



## xand

cheznous said:


> Any reputable dealers in the UK that will be selling this?
> I normally buy from Hifonix but they are not dealers for Cayin.



WELCOME!


----------



## Taz777

cheznous said:


> Any reputable dealers in the UK that will be selling this?
> I normally buy from Hifonix but they are not dealers for Cayin.



Try contacting Audio Concierge: https://www.audioconcierge.co.uk

@PhilW is the owner of Audio Concierge and a member on here. I can wholeheartedly recommend buying from him simply for the excellent service.


----------



## Nostoi

cheznous said:


> Any reputable dealers in the UK that will be selling this?
> I normally buy from Hifonix but they are not dealers for Cayin.


https://www.audioconcierge.co.uk/portfolio/cayin-c9-portable-headphones-amplifier/
https://www.advancedmp3players.co.u...in_C9_Portable_Headphone_Amplifier.15461.html


----------



## cheznous

Nostoi said:


> https://www.audioconcierge.co.uk/portfolio/cayin-c9-portable-headphones-amplifier/
> https://www.advancedmp3players.co.u...in_C9_Portable_Headphone_Amplifier.15461.html


Thank you. 
Neither in stock yet but as Advanced MP3 are 200 pounds cheaper have asked them to let me when know actually in stock.


----------



## PhilW

cheznous said:


> Thank you.
> Neither in stock yet but as Advanced MP3 are 200 pounds cheaper have asked them to let me when know actually in stock.



I am now price matching that, thank you for the heads up. Stock is limited due to Chinese New Year. I can't wait for people to start getting their unit.


----------



## Andykong (Feb 2, 2021)

Andykong said:


> We tried silicone bands, it doesn't work very well. the C9 is quite a bit larger than our DAP, and the N6ii has a fairly high  screen-to-body ratio, so it looks ugly and inconvenience to operate when you have two silicon bands around N6ii.  We didn't include a leather case to bundle N6ii with C9 because if we do that, we'll pass a wrong message to the public.  C9 is not meant for N6ii exclusively. We expect C9 to have much longer product life than any DAP in the market, so custom make a DAP + C9 leather case is only a short-term solution.
> 
> I am looking at other options right now and I probably will go for reusable silicone pads.  I have ordered some samples and hopefully it will arrive within a week, will share my experience if this work out OK.



A quick recap on using  silicon pad to bundle a DAP with C9.




 

The silicon I received is 6cm x 7.5cm, I have no idea if this is a "Gripeez" as listed in the photo, probably not, but it works fine so far.  I can put the pad on C9, compress it to make sure the bubbles are removed as much as possible, and then I put my N6ii on the silicon pad and press it tightly.  I don't think you need to apply a lot of pressure, just let let it sit still for 1 hour.  It was a bit shaky in the very beginning, but it become very secure after 1 hour.  I can hold the N6ii with one hand, and let the silicon pad take the weight of C9 completely.

I have tried several mounting position with N6ii+C9, and right now I have settled with "back to back" and aligned to bottom.   I can take photo of N6ii and C9 without losing the N6ii screen or the C9 Nutube display window, and the bundle can stand upright on its own. I have also tried aligning the left edge and the right edge of player to C9, both method has their own merit.  As of now, I have the left side panel of N6ii aligned with C9 so that the bundle and sit horizontally on table.

I can separate N6ii from C9 without using brute force, and remove the silicon pad from C9 without leaving a trace.  When I reapply the silicon pad,  I need to use a plastic sheet to squeeze away the bubbles, so better keep the packing plastic sheet around for 1-2 days just in case.  The silicon pad is supposed to be resume its original bonding power if you wash it with water gently.


----------



## Andykong

PhilW said:


> I am now price matching that, thank you for the heads up. Stock is limited due to Chinese New Year. I can't wait for people to start getting their unit.



Sorry, second batch is March already.


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> Doesn’t seem that Cayin started shipment of C9 until today.  It is gonna be a while to wait....and I thought release date was 20th instead of 30th LOL



Most likely, the package has sit in the HK freight forwarder/agent warehouse for 1 week before register into their system.  That kind of logistic delays is considered "normal" in past 6 months.


----------



## Whitigir

Andykong said:


> Sorry, second batch is March already.


Cayin has no more stock until March ?


----------



## Andykong

jonstatt said:


> I think Andy is being misunderstood. He didn't say the voltage wasn't sufficient. I think he is saying its the speed at which the voltage can swing from one point to another. The bigger the voltage required the more rapidly the swing needed. At battery power you are at a disadvantage especially if you are boosting output voltage above the battery voltage itself. @Andykong I believe you were referring actually to the slew rate
> 
> The C9 will potentially sound as good as desktop amps for headphones and iems intended for portable use. I.e. less demanding such as an Audeze 4z vs a 4.
> 
> The HD800 varies in impedance substantially across its frequency range. The calculator and stats are based on the output and drive at one frequency point typically.



Thank you, I can't remember the term "slew rate" correctly, I know that in Chinese but failed to the word just slip my mind when I wrote the reply near midnight.

Yes and No.  What I mean is, you can have minimum slew rate problem but insufficient voltage swing, or you'll suffer from server slew rate problem but enough (without a lot of headroom) voltage swing.  I don't see how you can get away from both problem completely when you build an amplifier with low voltage Lithium battery.

The C9 will potentially sound "better" than desktop amps for iems intended for portable use, background noise is an issue, and most likely the gain circuit and volume control design of desktop amplifier will not serve IEMs particularly well.


----------



## Andykong

xand said:


> Emphasis mine, above.
> 
> I think you're saying that more voltage swing is always better - if so, are you saying that a desktop is always better?
> 
> ...



I start my post with one line, and that line defines the boundary of my arguments:
*Suddenly HD800 is all over the thread, I'll try to response them in one post.*

So everything I said in the post is related to HD800.  If you want to generalise my post to

more voltage swing is always better?
a desktop is always better?
for SOME headphones, the C9 is as good as a desktop?
Be my guest, you have your freedom to do that, but this is not my intention, and I am not going to response to any of  your generalised argument.

This is the kind of argument that drove brand representative away from discussion, because whatever I said, the more I said, there will be more room for generalisation, projection, deduction and speculation.


----------



## Whitigir

jonstatt said:


> That's because TI are quoting it in relation to their op amp chipsets. A better article is this
> https://mynewmicrophone.com/what-is-amplifier-slew-rate-does-it-affect-performance/
> 
> In portable amplifiers the effect on transients in particular should be noted because typically a portable amp is running much nearer its limits compared to a power amplifier for a surround sound system.


Now what if you drive the C9 directly with external supply ? Why did Cayin not incorporate a way to drive the amp directly by external supply like DMP Z1 ?


----------



## LabelH

They already in HK since last week. So far positive impression


----------



## xand

Andykong said:


> I start my post with one line, and that line defines the boundary of my arguments:
> *Suddenly HD800 is all over the thread, I'll try to response them in one post.*
> 
> So everything I said in the post is related to HD800.  If you want to generalise my post to
> ...



I wasn't aware that the HD800 was some special species of headphone such that voltage swing is only applicable to it. If you're just saying that you subjectively don't think the HD800 is driven well out of the C9, fine - but your post said more than that.

Pretty pathetic that you can dish it out but can't suck it up.


----------



## Whitigir

xand said:


> I wasn't aware that the HD800 was some special species of headphone such that voltage swing is only applicable to it. If you're just saying that *you subjectively don't think the HD800 is driven well out of the C9*, fine - but your post said more than that.
> 
> Pretty pathetic that you can dish it out but can't suck it up.


Cayin states “C9 is probably the most sophisticated portable headphone amplifier for both *earphones and headphones* in the market”

So, it was made to cater toward both *Headphones and Earphones* users groups !

If the C9 can only drive the like of HD800S, while sticking to some powerful DAP will just do similarly, then why should people compromises a 1 in all devices and stretch it just a little for $2K more and an uncomfortable Stack for portability ?


----------



## xand

Quoting exactly where your post was, in your OWN WORDS, a *general *comment as to voltage swing.



Andykong said:


> The biggest problem with battery powered headphone amplifier and HD800 (or *300ohm headphones in general*) is insufficient voltage swing.
> 
> Yes, *we are better than many portable alternatives*, but still, when compare to  ±24V power supply with a dozen of 20000 uF electrolytic capacitors (just make up some numbers for comparison purpose, please don't take it specifically), C9 is in a very disadvantage position.
> 
> I hope I have make my point: the problem is not whether C9 has enough output power to drive HD800 to 96dB, *its the voltage swing that matters, and low-voltage battery powered amplifier has a congenital defect on this issue.*


----------



## Andykong (Feb 2, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> Cayin has no more stock until March ?



You probably are not familiar with our routine of Chinese New Year.  

We'll stop our production line by end of this week,  start to deep clean our facilities (you can only do this once per year), and then lock up the facilities just before Chinese New year.  Workers will go back to their home town meeting up with their family. Over half of the working population will move around at the same time, check out *Chunyun* if you want to find out more.

The new year break is 7 days only "officially", but employees who come from very distance province such as Heilongjiang orXīnjiāng Province will start their journey earlier and come back late, so the more realistic schedule will be 14 - 18 days before we can resume production.

If you deduct 14-18 days from February, resume C9 production in March is an optimistic schedule, especially when Cayin are building over 70 products actively from our production line.  (15 CD players/DAC, 37 amplifiers, 19 Personal Audio products)


----------



## Whitigir

xand said:


> Quoting exactly where your post was, in your OWN WORDS, a *general *comment as to voltage swing.


Now you just made me want to cancel my purchase.  Instead of going half way like this for nothing or merely anything, I rather stay with desktops or portable only, no stacking


----------



## xand

Whitigir said:


> Now you just made me want to cancel my purchase.  Instead of going half way like this for nothing or merely anything, I rather stay with desktops or portable only, no stacking



Well, personally I've already ordered and will take delivery regardless of the responses in the thread ... but I had the chance to demo it first (Utopia/Zeus though).


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> Now what if you drive the C9 directly with external supply ? Why did Cayin not incorporate a way to drive the amp directly by external supply like DMP Z1 ?



Cayin developed C9 as a portable headphone amplifier, not a battery powered transportable headphone amplifier, we have our own definition of portable, and C9 is more or less the limit of that at 550g + DAP.

Beside, we never intend to make high impedance headphones as our primary target.  With the form factor and weight constraint, we have to narrow down our plan.  The fact is if we optimise C9 for HD800 or similar high impedance headphone, it is very likely that we need to give up a large portion of IEM market.


----------



## bye2

Honestly I really hope the c9 could have a desktop mode to switch to.


----------



## Whitigir

bye2 said:


> Honestly I really hope the c9 could have a desktop mode to switch to.


How and why ?


----------



## xand

Actually what I think it might be fun to do is to listen to the C9 in preamp mode out of a Naim Atom... The Atom kinda sucks as a headphone source because the built-in headphone amp is not great, and it cannot do a line output - but the C9's preamp mode kinda solves that.

I really don't want to be tempted to buy an Atom though, so I will not be doing that demo. 

However, I'm just leaving this here in case someone else wants to consider it...


----------



## bye2

Whitigir said:


> How and why ?



'cos I can't stop listening it on balanced tube mode and I can tell the measured battery life is quite accurate.


----------



## xand

bye2 said:


> 'cos I can't stop listening it on balanced tube mode and I can tell the measured battery life is quite accurate.



They have a solution for the battery life issue - buy a second battery tray.


----------



## bluestorm1992

bye2 said:


> 'cos I can't stop listening it on balanced tube mode and I can tell the measured battery life is quite accurate.


Quick question - sorry if I missed this from earlier posts - can you charge while you are listening?


----------



## LabelH

bye2 said:


> 'cos I can't stop listening it on balanced tube mode and I can tell the measured battery life is quite accurate.



the charging time also accurate


----------



## bye2

bluestorm1992 said:


> Quick question - sorry if I missed this from earlier posts - can you charge while you are listening?



 Think it would hurt?  Haven’t try as it (the manual) hasn’t explicitly said so.  It will drain the battery continuously and make it dies faster if there isn’t any protection.


----------



## Whitigir

xand said:


> They have a solution for the battery life issue - buy a second battery tray.


The tray better have expandable space so you can fit in more than 4 at the expenses of being thicker, and go for much longer


bye2 said:


> 'cos I can't stop listening it on balanced tube mode and I can tell the measured battery life is quite accurate.


Are you listening to any headphones at all ?


----------



## xand

Whitigir said:


> The tray better have expandable space so you can fit in more than 4 at the expenses of being thicker, and go for much longer



Haha I mean you have to stop listening, switch the tray, start listening, put the used tray to charge (rinse and repeat)...


----------



## Whitigir

xand said:


> Haha I mean you have to stop listening, switch the tray, start listening, put the used tray to charge (rinse and repeat)...


Pull the battery out and replace with freshly charged new battery ?


----------



## xand

Whitigir said:


> Pull the battery out and replace with freshly charged new battery ?



I just mean the item below, bolded and underlined, from the first post:



Andykong said:


> *5.    Replaceable battery:* the *removable battery module* houses 4 x Sony US18650VTC6 (3000mAh 3.7V) lithium batteries.  You can charge the 18650 batteries while the battery module is attached to C9 or after you detached it from the amplifier.   The battery module supports standard, PD and QC3.0 battery charging through USB-C connector.
> 
> Users can acquire and replace the batteries conveniently to extend the battery duration when needed.
> User can *acquire extra set of battery module*.
> ...


----------



## cheznous

Andykong said:


> You probably are not familiar with our routine of Chinese New Year.
> 
> We'll stop our production line by end of this week,  start to deep clean our facilities (you can only do this once per year), and then lock up the facilities just before Chinese New year.  Workers will go back to their home town meeting up with their family. Over half of the working population will move around at the same time, check out *Chunyun* if you want to find out more.
> 
> ...


And here in the UK we cannot even go to our local non essential shops. Roll on vaccinations and Summer hols.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 2, 2021)

Is there any official VRMS specs at 300 ohms @Andykong ?


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 2, 2021)

Order placed... couldn’t resist C9.

Curious to see how it will perform with my Diana V2. If it works well, it may replace my current desktop Amp the Broadway Amp. Let's see.

@Andykong 新年快乐！我在珠海渡过我大学的前两年（中大珠海校区），真的是个特别好的地方。希望疫情过去之后可以去珠海拜访你们～


----------



## normie610

bluestorm1992 said:


> Order placed... couldn’t resist C9.
> 
> Curious to see how it will perform with my Diana V2. If it works well, it may replace my current desktop Amp the Broadway Amp. Let's see.



Wow that’s a very bold move  

So is it going to be DAP -> C9 -> Diana V2 or Composer -> C9 -> Diana V2?


----------



## bluestorm1992

normie610 said:


> Wow that’s a very bold move
> 
> So is it going to be DAP -> C9 -> Diana V2 or Composer -> C9 -> Diana V2?


I am thinking DAP (LPG or Hugo 2) -> C9 -> V2. On paper C9 seems to be even more powerful than the Broadway Amp, which pushes 1.5w at 32 Ω.


----------



## xand (Feb 2, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> I am thinking DAP (LPG or Hugo 2) -> C9 -> V2. On paper C9 seems to be even more powerful than the Broadway Amp, which pushes 1.5w at 32 Ω.



The Broadway amp uses four 18650 batteries for "power filtering" so I won't be surprised if it is the type of amplifier @Andykong was thinking of when he described a "low-voltage battery powered amplifier"... with a "congenital defect on this issue" of "insufficient voltage swing", which is the "biggest problem" when used with "300 ohm headphones in general".

Hope the C9 works out awesome!

P.S.: Yes, this is just a dig against Andy - I suspect that given the Abyss Phi rating of 42 ohms it should be fine but who knows what the slew rate or voltage swing required is.. Hurhur.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 2, 2021)

xand said:


> The Broadway amp uses four 18650 batteries for "power filtering" so I won't be surprised if it is the type of amplifier @Andykong was thinking of when he described a "low-voltage battery powered amplifier"... with a "congenital defect on this issue" of "insufficient voltage swing", which is the "biggest problem" when used with "300 ohm headphones in general".
> 
> Hope the C9 works out awesome!
> 
> P.S.: Yes, this is just a dig against Andy - I suspect that given the Abyss Phi rating of 42 ohms it should be fine but who knows what the slew rate or voltage swing required is.. Hurhur.


The Broadway Amp is known for driving some power-hungry headphones quite well, including the 1266. I think this gives us some hope that C9 should drive power-hungry headphones at least equally well. 

On a related note, after using the Broadway Amp, I am really appreciating battery-powered devices, especially powerful amps made portable with batteries. It is just so convenient. I can take it upstairs and use it with my DAP as the source. I can even take it out for a short overnight trip and enjoy the excellent amp on-the-go.


----------



## xand

bluestorm1992 said:


> I am really appreciating battery-powered devices, especially powerful amps made portable with batteries. It is just so convenient. I can take it upstairs and use it with my DAP as the source. I can even take it out for a short overnight trip and enjoy the excellent amp on-the-go.



Me too!

I realise one reason I never previously used full size headphones much was just the amp I was stuck to.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 2, 2021)

xand said:


> Me too!
> 
> I realise one reason I never previously used full size headphones much was just the amp I was stuck to.


This is so true. I have my desktop setup in a corner of my living room. It turns out that because I am always moving around my house with my laptop, I rarely have the chance to sit there and listen to them. So, in fact, I don’t get to enjoy the full convenience of the battery amp (because my desktop dac needs to be there).

Now that C9 can be paired nicely with my DAPs, it should allow me to listen to my V2 much more often.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 2, 2021)

The question is as @xand said, would the C9 be able to have enough slewrate and swing aling aling ? Batteries like Tesla may Not even have enough current and burst discharge eh ? idk, I think I need an arc reactor


----------



## xand

Whitigir said:


> The question is as @xand said, would the C9 be able to have enough slewrate and swing aling aling ?



We may never know, given @Andykong 's position on how his generalised post was not, in fact, generalisable.

🤣

See: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...able-headphone-amplifier.943135/post-16150666


----------



## Whitigir

xand said:


> We may never know, given @Andykong 's position on how his generalised post was not, in fact, generalisable.
> 
> 🤣
> 
> See: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...able-headphone-amplifier.943135/post-16150666


Now one thing I may have to agree on is that while the C9 is awesome to have, it still doesn’t utilize the newest technologies, GAN! Pretty soon we will see them on the market for amplifications purposes, especially for dedicated hi-fi .  The question is who it going to be ? First ? Or last ?


----------



## xand

Whitigir said:


> GAN! Pretty soon we will see them on the market for amplifications purposes, especially for dedicated hi-fi .  The question is who it going to be ? First ? Or last ?



Oh i thought GaN was just about making smaller chargers - I imagine that someone is looking into it to see whether it sounds better too - any work on this you're aware of?


----------



## Whitigir

xand said:


> Oh i thought GaN was just about making smaller chargers - I imagine that someone is looking into it to see whether it sounds better too - any work on this you're aware of?


You should check this out 
https://epc-co.com/epc/Applications/ClassDAudio.aspx


----------



## xand

Whitigir said:


> You should check this out
> https://epc-co.com/epc/Applications/ClassDAudio.aspx



Yum. Tiny for the power. Hope it sounds good! Let's also hope it takes 8-10 years though so we can depreciate down the C9 cost haha.


----------



## Andykong (Feb 4, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> Order placed... couldn’t resist C9.
> 
> Curious to see how it will perform with my Diana V2. If it works well, it may replace my current desktop Amp the Broadway Amp. Let's see.
> 
> @Andykong 新年快乐！我在珠海渡过我大学的前两年（中大珠海校区），真的是个特别好的地方。希望疫情过去之后可以去珠海拜访你们～



What a coincident, this is my home office stack.  The Broadway is a very good amplifier, since you mentioned  1500 mW @ 32 ohms, so I assume we both have the same Balanced version.






You are in US right now?  Hopefully we can travel freely by 2022, so stay safe this year, and looking forward to run into each other in the future, who knows, maybe we'll cross path at a CanJam before you come to China again.




bluestorm1992 said:


> The Broadway Amp is known for driving some power-hungry headphones quite well, including the 1266. I think this gives us some hope that C9 should drive power-hungry headphones at least equally well.
> 
> On a related note, after using the Broadway Amp, I am really appreciating battery-powered devices, especially powerful amps made portable with batteries. It is just so convenient. I can take it upstairs and use it with my DAP as the source. I can even take it out for a short overnight trip and enjoy the excellent amp on-the-go.



Can't comment on a competitor product other than saying it is a very good amplifier.  Michael is a personal friend and we have a lot of social and professional exchanges.  One thing you should aware though, Broadway was designed for headphone usage while the single-end Broadway S was recommended for IEM applications.  C9, on the other hand, takes IEM as our primary coverage.


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> Is there any official VRMS specs at 300 ohms @Andykong ?



Based on my calculation, that will be 9.8V


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 2, 2021)

Andykong said:


> What a coincident, this is my home office stack.  The Broadway is a very good amplifier, since you mentioned  1500 mW @ 32 ohms, so I assume we both have the same Balanced version.
> 
> You are in US right now?  Hopefully we can travel freely by 2022, so stay safe this year, and looking forward to run into each other in the future, who knows, maybe we'll cross path at a CanJam before you come to China again.
> 
> ...


Yes still stuck in the US; hasn’t been back to China for more than 1 year.

Speaking of the Broadway Amp, have you been able to make some comparisons with C9? And, yes I have the balanced version to drive myV2, but it is way too powerful for IEMs.

Edit: OK I see. I guess it is then up to me to post some impressions here. I am sure both will work great.


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> Now you just made me want to cancel my purchase.  Instead of going half way like this for nothing or merely anything, I rather stay with desktops or portable only, no stacking



If HD800/HD800S is your primary headphone and you want to achieve the best performance per $ invested on amplifier, in regardless of portability, desktop is the way to go.  This probably is a bad idea for C9 promotion, but a sincerely advice from an audiophile.



DaYooper said:


> All of that makes sense from both perspectives so it all boils down to individual use case then,. As I said in a private conversation, for me I've always been content to roam around my house with just the DAP on my person, or just listen to the speaker systems or sometimes use the poly/mojo to have the roon access. But in the case of the HD800/S there almost always seems to be a little more that it needs. So, I moved from the C9 as my intended tube amp to an HA-6A desktop. Maybe it's just the big glowing tubes that intrigues me, some guys just can't resist shiny things, or the amount of power (testosterone poisoning) but it seemed the best solution for my head-fi station.



At $500 extra, the HA-6A will outperform C9 significantly with HD800/HD800S, literally to a different level.  You make a wise choice IMO.


----------



## Bosk (Feb 3, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> I am really appreciating battery-powered devices, especially powerful amps made portable with batteries. It is just so convenient. I can take it upstairs and use it with my DAP as the source. I can even take it out for a short overnight trip and enjoy the excellent amp on-the-go.


There must be a lot of us who appreciate high-quality transportable systems. It feels reminiscent of owning an iPad - its hard to be chained to a couch or desk once you can watch & listen anywhere with few restrictions!

If Cayin's calling the C9 a "portable" rather than transportable amp I'd love to meet their concept for a high-end transportable unit. Price might cause coronaries though.


----------



## Andykong

Bosk said:


> There must be a lot of us who appreciate high-quality transportable systems. It feels reminiscent of owning an iPad - its hard to be chained to a couch or desk once you can watch & listen anywhere with few restrictions!
> 
> If Cayin's calling the C9 a "portable" rather than transportable amp I'd love to meet their concept for a high-end transportable unit. Price might cause coronaries though.



From functional point of view, when you listen to the amplifier while you are walking around, waiting or travelling on underground or bus, this is a portable.  If the amplifier is designed to move and setup from one place to another place "conveniently" so that you can listen to the same amplifier at different locations, be it office, hotel, from study room to balcony and then bedroom, that is transportable.  

The functional perspective provides a rough guideline on the form factor and weight of the gears to be classified as portable or transportable.  To me, C9+N6ii is portable, Sony  DMP-Z1 is a transportable, but YMMV.  I am not surprised if someone consider C9 as "transportable" too.  So maybe we can share our view so that we can have a benchmark in our discussion.

Of course, there are always extreme cases, if we use this gentleman as example, he is using a portable system, right?

By the way,  miniaturisation is a very high cost concept, so the same processing power, a desktop PC is cheaper than a notebook computer, and a mobile phone that is only 1/10 of the weight of notebook computer will cost even more, per processing power.  So a high-end transportable unit is not necessarily more expensive than a high-end portable unit.


----------



## Whitigir

And that is why there is DMP-Z1.  Honestly, if the C9 cant drive HD800S well enough, then I don’t see the point of buying the C9.  I do have desktop system already Andy, just want to take it on the go.  That is why I have been torn between 2 extreme planes, either staying with portable and something powerful enough like the MAX, DMP-Z1, and or sticking to Desktop amp, avoiding Stack.

I sincerely thought C9 would be the game changer since it had so much power


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> And that is why there is DMP-Z1.  Honestly, if the C9 cant drive HD800S well enough, then I don’t see the point of buying the C9.  I do have desktop system already Andy, just want to take it on the go.  That is why I have been torn between 2 extreme planes, either staying with portable and something powerful enough like the MAX, DMP-Z1, and or sticking to Desktop amp, avoiding Stack.
> 
> I sincerely thought C9 would be the game changer since it had so much power



Unfortunately, "so much power" is not the critical success factor to HD800/HD800S, IMHO.

My sincere advice: wait till you have the opportunity to audition the C9 in person, or when there are more user impressions that you can align with.  The C9 is a better portable amplifier on many scenario, but high impedance headphone is not one of them. It will sound good and pleasant with HD800/HD800S, but will it qualify as an endgame or game changer with HD800?  I am not truly convinced myself, but YMMV.


----------



## xand

Whitigir said:


> ... if the C9 cant drive HD800S well enough,



There are other headphones.. 

Personally I'm pretty sure that for the price I could have gotten a superior amp, albeit not one which is as convenient/transportable, and I liked the demo enough. 

🤷‍♂️


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 3, 2021)

xand said:


> There are other headphones..
> 
> Personally I'm pretty sure that for the price I could have gotten a superior amp, albeit not one which is as convenient/transportable, and I liked the demo enough.
> 
> 🤷‍♂️


That is the problems, I can’t find any other headphones I like , and DMP Z1 drive it nicely.  So that is what I am talking about, if Sony can do it, and if the C9 can’t, then why should I stack it up ?  The DMP-Z1 runs on batteries and DC-External supplies when needed.  Nevertheless, it can drive HD800s in both instances....May be it has enough swing aling and slew bahews ?

It is not the matter of going desktop though, I just want to stay portable.


----------



## xand (Feb 3, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> That is the problems, I can’t find any other headphones I like , and DMP Z1 drive it nicely.  So that is what I am talking about, if Sony can do it, and if the C9 can’t, then why should I stack it up ?
> 
> It is not the matter of going desktop though, I just want to stay portable.



Well I picked my current solution because the Z1 has no streaming. If not I might already have the Z1 hahaha.

Also 1kg is better than 2.5 kg(!)

Edit: I did briefly consider a transport to the Z1 but the cost and weight.. Urgh.

Edit 2: what I kinda want now are some "open" customs...


----------



## Andykong

Since we have several C9 users showed up in the thread, I'll start to explain more operational side of C9.  Someone has asked whether you can charge while you are listening, so let me started here.

*Charging and Protection Circuit*

The 18650 is very different from the 3.7V Lithium battery that are commonly find in mobile phone. Overcharge and discharge of lithium-ion batteries will cause permanent damage to the positive and negative electrodes. Excessive discharge leads to the collapse of the negative carbon layer structure, and the collapse will cause the insertion of lithium ions in the charging process; overcharging will cause too much lithium ions to be inserted into the negative carbon structure, causing some of the lithium ions to no longer be released. (Extracted from *HERE*)

A fully charged 18650 is around 4.2V and a discharged battery should stay at around 3.0V. A deeply discharged cell has fallen below 2.75V, it goes into a sleep mode and the battery is essentially useless.

The Battery module and the C9 audio circuit did not share a common ground, so it is likely that there will be potential different between the two grounds. Therefore it is very important to charge the battery with a separate USB charger. Using the USB from connected audio source equipment (such as computer or media player) to charge up the C9 batteries will trigger the short circuit protection, and might even damage the device and/or connected source equipment.
In case your C9 (or the battery module) entered protection mode, you need to remove everything and connect C9 or the battery module to a charger, charge it for at least 10 seconds and the device or battery module will revoke from protection mode and resume normal operation.
After replacing or dismounting the battery, the battery module enters protective mode, you need to connect the battery module to a charger, charge it for at least 10 seconds, and the battery module will then revoke from protection mode and resume normal operation.
Do not charge and playback both C9 and the connected source (let’s assume that is a DAP) at the same time. The four pieces of 18650 batteries are connected as a +8.4V and -8.4V power supply for the amplification circuit, and there is a set of ground line in between and that is connected to the C9 chassis. The charging circuit via USB-C has its own reference Ground connected to the USB socket. Be reminded that these two Ground are completely independent. If C9 and the DAP are charge and play at the same time, the power supply Ground (C9 Chassis) and charging Ground (USB socket) will short circuit by the charging cable and interconnect between C9 and DAP. C9 will enter protected mode. You can revoke C9 from protection mode by disconnecting everything and charge it for 10 second.
You can charge and playback C9 at the same time before the batteries is fully charged. 18650 Lithium battery charge control is divided into two phases. The first phase is constant current charging. When the battery voltage is lower than 4.2 V, the charger will charge with a constant *current*. The second stage is the constant *voltage* charging stage, when the battery voltage reaches 4.2 V, due to the characteristics of the lithium battery, if the voltage is high, it will be damaged, the charger will fix the voltage at 4.2 V, and the charging current will gradually decrease. Therefore, if you charge and playback at the same time and your charging rate is faster than discharge rate, the 18650 batteries will reach 4.2V eventually. The problem is, when you continue to charge and playback at this moment, C9 power management cannot enter the constant voltage charge stage, this will put C9 into protection mode. You can revoke C9 from protection mode by disconnecting everything and charge it for 10 second. You are advised to disconnect C9 from charging when the fourth battery LED is flashing in these circumstances.
If you charge and playback C9 at the same time and your charging rate is slower than discharge rate, your battery will consume slowly. At certain point, the batteries will drop below 3V and triggered the protection circuit to power off the C9. . You can revoke C9 from protection mode by disconnecting everything and charge it for 10 second and charge up the 18650 batteries. Since deep discharge might damage your battery, you are advised to stop your playback and start to charge up C9 when only 1 charging LED remains flashing.
Please do not use USB charger from Huawei mobile device to charge up C9. Huawei has it own quick charge protocol that is not compatible with C9.


----------



## Whitigir

How about a conventional way by charging with 18650 dedicated charger, then pull out the batteries and replace for more hours ?


----------



## Whitigir

xand said:


> Well I picked my current solution because the Z1 has no streaming. If not I might already have the Z1 hahaha.
> 
> Also 1kg is better than 2.5 kg(!)
> 
> ...


Understandable, but since you are using Utopia , that is a little different.


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> How about a conventional way by charging with 18650 dedicated charger, then pull out the batteries and replace for more hours ?



This is what I am doing when I have four sets of 18650 but only 1 battery module.  Pick a 18650 charger that can regulate the charging current of four battery slot independently.


----------



## xand

Whitigir said:


> Understandable, but since you are using Utopia , that is a little different.



Andy's view might be that the Utopia isn't properly driven too.. Note it has a 300ohm + spike... 😁


----------



## Whitigir

Andykong said:


> This is what I am doing when I have four sets of 18650 but only 1 battery module.  Pick a 18650 charger that can regulate the charging current of four battery slot independently.


Yepe, already have everything ready, I just don’t know if I made the right call jumping into C9 for my needs


----------



## xand

Whitigir said:


> don’t know if I made the right call jumping into C9 for my needs



What's the cancellation/return policy you are subject to?


----------



## Whitigir

xand said:


> What's the cancellation/return policy you are subject to?


Idk, restocking fees and so on ? But as long as I have not received it, I should have no problem in cancelation


----------



## ahossam

Andykong said:


> Since we have several C9 users showed up in the thread, I'll start to explain more operational side of C9.  Someone has asked whether you can charge while you are listening, so let me started here.
> 
> *Charging and Protection Circuit*
> 
> ...



So does it mean you can't cooked C9 by plugged it into charger, play on a loop and leave it for days, like everyone does with their new DAP.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 4, 2021)

A new pic I spotted. The person in the post suggests that C9 has no problem driving HD 800S.


----------



## bluestorm1992

ahossam said:


> So does it mean you can't cooked C9 by plugged it into charger, play on a loop and leave it for days, like everyone does with their new DAP.


I am actually wondering whether burn-in is at all necessaryy for C9.


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> A new pic I spotted. The person in the post suggests that C9 has no problem driving D8000 Pro.


I see I am not the only one with 800S! Thanks for the pictures


----------



## twister6

bluestorm1992 said:


> I am actually wondering whether burn-in is at all necessaryy for C9.



Manufacturers recommend burn in of DAPs.  Here you got tube/solid state amp, don't see why not.


----------



## Whitigir

twister6 said:


> Manufacturers recommend burn in of DAPs.  Here you got tube/solid state amp, don't see why not.


Exactly! I would think the same.  The best burn in practice is to swap battery set as burn in go ?


----------



## twister6

Whitigir said:


> I see I am not the only one with 800S! Thanks for the pictures



I wish I would have HD800s so I can tell you how it sounds with C9, but the best I can do it with ATH-R70x (470ohm, 99dB sensitivity) which I have no problem driving out of many DAPs.  Of course, being able to raise the volume loud enough doesn't mean it is driven properly to its full potential.  I know I'm stepping into an unknown territory since I'm mostly into DAP/iems and personally not a fan of being tied up to a heavy-duty desktop setup which molds headphone sound into something different, subjective to user's personal taste.  It is a lot easier with IEMs, most could be driven properly from any source, and it is just a matter of pair up synergy and technical limitation of the source.

But while reading the last few pages of the thread, I think it will be hard to draw any conclusion based on reading spec numbers without someone actually trying and comparing it to other portable and desktop sources.  Right now it is only a speculation.


----------



## twister6

Whitigir said:


> Exactly! I would think the same.  The best burn in practice is to swap battery set as burn in go ?



I'm still trying to figure out the best burn in method.  Andy's explanation about battery charging and ckt ground explained a lot.  I have seen a few times where C9 was fully charged and I was using N6ii w/E02 LO (on a charger) connected to C9 (on a charger) and its overprotection ckt mechanism kicked in, so I as running off the battery even so C9 was plugged into the charger.  Then, my last burn in ran lasted 24+ hours but I started with C9 battery not fully charged and while charging up and being used at the same time it lasted a very long time since it was charging only a little bit faster than discharging.  But then, I plugged and unplugged usb-c charging cable and it is back for round 2 now.

But either way, I think what I'm reading and figuring out is that C9 is designed for a portable use, strap it to a dap and carry it around, it is rather small and portable (footprint is a little bit shorter than DX300).  If your really want to use it continuously as a desktop amp connected 24-7 to usb-c charger, I don't think it is a good idea, but feasible.  Desktop amps come with a powerful supplies and filters to clean up the noise.  Here with C9, charging battery base is plug'n'play, and if you don't move around you don't even need to secure screws.  I think you can get a spare one and use it as a standalone charger.  Keep one spare with 4 additional batteries, use one tray in C9 while charging the other tray and swap it in a matter of a few seconds when battery runs down.


----------



## Whitigir

I would just charge the 18650 on a dedicated charger, pull out the tray, swap the batteries and keep on going


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 3, 2021)

Andykong said:


> You can charge and playback C9 at the same time before the batteries is fully charged. 18650 Lithium battery charge control is divided into two phases. The first phase is constant current charging. When the battery voltage is lower than 4.2 V, the charger will charge with a constant *current*. The second stage is the constant *voltage* charging stage, when the battery voltage reaches 4.2 V, due to the characteristics of the lithium battery, if the voltage is high, it will be damaged, the charger will fix the voltage at 4.2 V, and the charging current will gradually decrease. Therefore, if you charge and playback at the same time and your charging rate is faster than discharge rate, the 18650 batteries will reach 4.2V eventually. The problem is, when you continue to charge and playback at this moment, C9 power management cannot enter the constant voltage charge stage, this will put C9 into protection mode. You can revoke C9 from protection mode by disconnecting everything and charge it for 10 second. You are advised to disconnect C9 from charging when the fourth battery LED is flashing in these circumstances


From this official specification.  Seems feasible that Building a dedicated Linear regulated Power supply and modify the C9 to have the ability to take the LPSU will solve it power supply issues.

Dual rails with ground split will allow it to have a dedicated dual rails of LPSU
However, battery is clean and have it own advantages


Andykong said:


> Do not charge and playback both C9 and the connected source (let’s assume that is a DAP) at the same time. The four pieces of 18650 batteries are connected as a +8.4V and -8.4V power supply for the amplification circuit, and there is a set of ground line in between and that is connected to the C9 chassis. The charging circuit via USB-C has its own reference Ground connected to the USB socket. Be reminded that these two Ground are completely independent. If C9 and the DAP are charge and play at the same time, the power supply Ground (C9 Chassis) and charging Ground (USB socket) will short circuit by the charging cable and interconnect between C9 and DAP. C9 will enter protected mode. You can revoke C9 from protection mode by disconnecting everything and charge it for 10 second


----------



## Bosk

Andykong said:


> From functional point of view, when you listen to the amplifier while you are walking around, waiting or travelling on underground or bus, this is a portable.  If the amplifier is designed to move and setup from one place to another place "conveniently" so that you can listen to the same amplifier at different locations, be it office, hotel, from study room to balcony and then bedroom, that is transportable.
> 
> The functional perspective provides a rough guideline on the form factor and weight of the gears to be classified as portable or transportable.  To me, C9+N6ii is portable, Sony  DMP-Z1 is a transportable, but YMMV.  I am not surprised if someone consider C9 as "transportable" too.  So maybe we can share our view so that we can have a benchmark in our discussion.
> 
> ...


Thanks Andykong for that post.

Yes those terms will mean different things to different people, depending on how much weight & bulk one considers reasonable to lug around. I suppose the point I'm making is that the C9 is rather big for a "portable" earphone amp, which perhaps helps make it an object of interest to many of us as I personally feel the "transportable" amp market has been neglected by manufacturers with a dearth of options out there. 

No doubt you guys know the market and its' opportunities better than we do, so its logical to think this reflects a comparative lack of demand for such products. Yet this surprises me slightly and I can't be the only one hoping the C9 fires consumer interest and manufacturer attention enough that we might see a wave of other high-end transportable amps in future.

After saying all that, I'm rather a hypocrite having recently purchased the DX300 which is very much akin to the C9 in the sense that it too is a "plus-size" portable offering, though in my defense I plan to use it only _as_ a transportable unit, much preferring the size of my A&K SR25 for on-the-go use. As that picture demonstrates though, we're all different..... and some of us more "different" than others.


----------



## xand

Frankly, all I hope is that it's a good long time before the C9 is clearly surpassed  (by others - given what andy has said about business case this may be the top Cayin portable/transportable amp for the next 3/4 years)


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> And that is why there is DMP-Z1.  Honestly, if the C9 cant drive HD800S well enough, then I don’t see the point of buying the C9.  I do have desktop system already Andy, just want to take it on the go.  That is why I have been torn between 2 extreme planes, either staying with portable and something powerful enough like the MAX, DMP-Z1, and or sticking to Desktop amp, avoiding Stack.
> 
> I sincerely thought C9 would be the game changer since it had so much power






Whitigir said:


> That is the problems, I can’t find any other headphones I like , and DMP Z1 drive it nicely.  So that is what I am talking about, if Sony can do it, and if the C9 can’t, then why should I stack it up ?  The DMP-Z1 runs on batteries and DC-External supplies when needed.  Nevertheless, it can drive HD800s in both instances....May be it has enough swing aling and slew bahews ?
> 
> It is not the matter of going desktop though, I just want to stay portable.



This is interesting.  Have you tried DMP Z1 with HD800? you like it enough? Is that your endgame/gamechanger for HD800? Have you tried DMP-Z1 with external power supply? Does it upgrade or downgrade the  audio performance of DMP-Z1/HA800 pair?


----------



## Andykong

ahossam said:


> So does it mean you can't cooked C9 by plugged it into charger, play on a loop and leave it for days, like everyone does with their new DAP.



Nope, you cannot plug in a charger for several days.  The protection circuit of 18650 is more specific than 3.7V Lithium battery commonly used in DAP and 3C mobile devices.

Start with a low battery capacity (1 out of 4 LED), charge your C9 and playback in Class AB, and feed with a source that does not connect to a USB charger. you should be able to charge and playback 24 hours non-stop, Alex has tried similar setting already, 



bluestorm1992 said:


> I am actually wondering whether burn-in is at all necessaryy for C9.



You do.  Discrete components requires more run-in time than Op-Amp based circuit.  If you only collect your C9 recently, maybe you should run it for 50 hours and see what happens.


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> I see I am not the only one with 800S! Thanks for the pictures



He is an early adapters, he bought A02 for his N6ii earlier on while "waiting" for the C9, and he shared several rounds of C9 photo in multiple Facebook Chinese headphone groups already. In one of FB group, he discussed the performance of HD800S, if you have friends who can understand Chinese, you can ask for their translation, but in short he is very please with the performance of C9 and HD800S, but please don't compare it with desktop setup.


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> From this official specification.  Seems feasible that Building a dedicated Linear regulated Power supply and modify the C9 to have the ability to take the LPSU will solve it power supply issues.
> 
> Dual rails with ground split will allow it to have a dedicated dual rails of LPSU
> However, battery is clean and have it own advantages



Technically possible, but not desirable form audio performance point of view.  A LPS will inevitably involve a transformer, be it EI, Toroidal or C-core, so the extension will be quite substantial in size.   On top of that, the power filtering network of AC based LPS is very different from lithium battery based power supply and you cannot bypass the power filtering network in C9 unless your modify the circuit board, which is a whole different game.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 4, 2021)

does anyone know if the power button is a hold/release kind ?


Andykong said:


> This is interesting.  Have you tried DMP Z1 with HD800? you like it enough? Is that your endgame/gamechanger for HD800? Have you tried DMP-Z1 with external power supply? Does it upgrade or downgrade the  audio performance of DMP-Z1/HA800 pair?



You bet! LPSU upgraded the performances.  Definitely an end game for on the go HD800S.  The only thing is that it is heavy!  *This is what giving me hope for C9*, to be similar, but can be paired with many other DAPS and a little more portable.  Am I hoping for nothing ?


----------



## Whitigir

Andykong said:


> Technically possible, but not desirable form audio performance point of view.  A LPS will inevitably involve a transformer, be it EI, Toroidal or C-core, so the extension will be quite substantial in size.   On top of that, the power filtering network of AC based LPS is very different from lithium battery based power supply and you cannot bypass the power filtering network in C9 unless your modify the circuit board, which is a whole different game.


You are right ! There are need to by pass the filter for batteries on the C9.  This stuff will need a whole schematic to tap into the traces!!! Only if C9 did allow an LPSU connection when the battery module is taken out


----------



## Andykong

Bosk said:


> Thanks Andykong for that post.
> 
> Yes those terms will mean different things to different people, depending on how much weight & bulk one considers reasonable to lug around. I suppose the point I'm making is that the C9 is rather big for a "portable" earphone amp, which perhaps helps make it an object of interest to many of us as I personally feel the "transportable" amp market has been neglected by manufacturers with a dearth of options out there.
> 
> ...



The problem with headphone hobby, from the perspective of amplifier manufacturer, is the wide spectrum of impedance, sensitivity and driver characteristics (BA, DD, EST in IEM, Dynamic, Planar, AMT, electrostatic in full size headphones), this creates handling requirements that is so wide spread that we have to compromise and define our target audience carefully otherwise our R&D and manufacturing resource will stretch too thin.

If you look at Cayin's product line, we have 15 "active" products in our Personal Audio line up (N3Pro, FIVE Audio Motherboards with N6ii, N8, C5, C9, iDAP-6/iDAC-6ii/iHA-6 stack, HA1AMK2, HA-6A, HA-300), I bet we have one of the longest "electronic" product line in the market, and yet, we can't fill up all the gap as you have suggested.  You can imagine when other manufacturers plan their product line, their priority probably will focused on items with larger or proven user base, and "transportable" become a very niche segment when compare to traditional desktop  and portable products. 

This is, to certain extend, reflected the Economic Inequality phenomenon: the richer will get more resource and become richer, the poorer will receive less resource and become poorer.  This is inevitable for developing market.


----------



## Andykong

xand said:


> There are other headphones..
> 
> Personally I'm pretty sure that for the price I could have gotten a superior amp, albeit not one which is as convenient/transportable, and I liked the demo enough.
> 
> 🤷‍♂️



That's what I try to convey: if you plan to use C9 with a demanding load, audition before you pay for it, or at least wait for reviewers or impression from early adapters.  



xand said:


> Frankly, all I hope is that it's a good long time before the C9 is clearly surpassed  (by others - given what andy has said about business case this may be the top Cayin portable/transportable amp for the next 3/4 years)



That I can confirm, to certain extend.  I have reviewed the 2021 R&D plan recently, our hands are full and yet we don't have any C9DAC, C9ii, C9Pro, C10 or whatever similar in our current R&D plan.  Even when C9 becomes a big hit and we decided to follow up with new product, it won't start until 2022, and probably will hit the market by early 2024.   In fact, the more realistic marketing plan is to develop a lower-tier product based on technologies and market awareness of C9.  Consumers probably don't aware that flagship product, while expensive per unit cost, is not very profitable because of low production volume.  Migrate the technologies of flagship products to mass market level is the way to go.


----------



## Bosk

Andykong said:


> The problem with headphone hobby, from the perspective of amplifier manufacturer, is the wide spectrum of impedance, sensitivity and driver characteristics (BA, DD, EST in IEM, Dynamic, Planar, AMT, electrostatic in full size headphones), this creates handling requirements that is so wide spread that we have to compromise and define our target audience carefully otherwise our R&D and manufacturing resource will stretch too thin.
> 
> If you look at Cayin's product line, we have 15 "active" products in our Personal Audio line up (N3Pro, FIVE Audio Motherboards with N6ii, N8, C5, C9, iDAP-6/iDAC-6ii/iHA-6 stack, HA1AMK2, HA-6A, HA-300), I bet we have one of the longest "electronic" product line in the market, and yet, we can't fill up all the gap as you have suggested.  You can imagine when other manufacturers plan their product line, their priority probably will focused on items with larger or proven user base, and "transportable" become a very niche segment when compare to traditional desktop  and portable products.
> 
> This is, to certain extend, reflected the Economic Inequality phenomenon: the richer will get more resource and become richer, the poorer will receive less resource and become poorer.  This is inevitable for developing market.


I and others appreciate the work your company is doing to satisfy the unsatisfiable ("eccentric" audiophiles like me) and drive the industry forward into new territory. After reading through your post, have you considered condensing your product lineup? 

I realize the irony of that question, that it might entail niche products like the C9 are first on the chopping block, but from what you wrote it sounds like Cayin may be faced with the dilemma many of us are these days - to cover as many bases as possible to an acceptable standard, or choose to sacrifice in some areas to perform better in others. Perhaps there is no simple answer but an ongoing dialogue in which community feedback and sales play their part.

My feeling is the high-end transportable market is under-represented but this is a purely anecdotal and non data-driven opinon. Sometimes it takes the right product to come along and fire consumer imagination for demand to really take off. I wonder what Apple's Airpods Max will do for the high-end headphone market for instance? Cannibalize sales of _genuinely_ high-end alternatives perhaps, or simply increase the overall size of the market as younger generations discover the joy of better sound for the first time.

Sorry I'm rambling here a little, but as a mere consumer in this industry its fascinating being given an insight into how audiophile manufacturers like yours decide which directions to persue. Much as I would love to see more high-priced transportable offerings, its easy to understand the economic realities that proven, more profitable product lines must be given precedence so the business can _afford_ the luxury of occasionally releasing something with more niche appeal. Much like Mazda with the MX-5 perhaps.


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> does anyone know if the power button is a hold/release kind ?
> 
> 
> You bet! LPSU upgraded the performances.  Definitely an end game for on the go HD800S.  The only thing is that it is heavy!  *This is what giving me hope for C9*, to be similar, but can be paired with many other DAPS and a little more portable.  Am I hoping for nothing ?
> ...



I tried  DMP-Z1 in several meets and shows, but never run into a setup with LPS upgrade, so I am very interested to find out more about that.

If you are happy with DMP-Z1 + HD800/HD800S, and expect C9+HD800/HD800S to perform at similar level, then indeed, you can remain positive and give it a try.  C9 is not an HD800 endgame/gamechager, but it will comparable to other high quality portable/transportable system.


----------



## Whitigir

That was why I asked “how come Cayin did not allow a DC input for C9”.  If the battery limitations was all that you said it was 

Yes, I understand your statement about Cayin perceiving the market, but as a consumers, they always love to have options.  Certainly it doesn’t hurt to have an outlet on the C9 chassis and as you said, by pass the battery filters for the supplying rails.


----------



## Andykong

Andykong said:


> What a coincident, this is my home office stack.  The Broadway is a very good amplifier, since you mentioned  1500 mW @ 32 ohms, so I assume we both have the same Balanced version.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I just notice that the picture I uploaded in one of the post disappeared, maybe I have make a silly mistake in the process.  uploaded again to rectify my mistake.


----------



## Andykong

Bosk said:


> I and others appreciate the work your company is doing to satisfy the unsatisfiable ("eccentric" audiophiles like me) and drive the industry forward into new territory. After reading through your post, have you considered condensing your product lineup?
> 
> I realize the irony of that question, that it might entail niche products like the C9 are first on the chopping block, but from what you wrote it sounds like Cayin may be faced with the dilemma many of us are these days - to cover as many bases as possible to an acceptable standard, or choose to sacrifice in some areas to perform better in others. Perhaps there is no simple answer but an ongoing dialogue in which community feedback and sales play their part.



If you have the opportunity to check out our complete product line,  you'll be amazed.  On top of the Personal Audio items I listed, we have 15 CD players/Streamer/DAC and 37 integrated/Pre/Power amplifier products, all actively moving in our R&D, production line or inventory. 



Bosk said:


> My feeling is the high-end transportable market is under-represented but this is a purely anecdotal and non data-driven opinon. Sometimes it takes the right product to come along and fire consumer imagination for demand to really take off. I wonder what Apple's Airpods Max will do for the high-end headphone market for instance? Cannibalize sales of _genuinely_ high-end alternatives perhaps, or simply increase the overall size of the market as younger generations discover the joy of better sound for the first time.
> 
> Sorry I'm rambling here a little, but as a mere consumer in this industry its fascinating being given an insight into how audiophile manufacturers like yours decide which directions to persue. Much as I would love to see more high-priced transportable offerings, its easy to understand the economic realities that proven, more profitable product lines must be given precedence so the business can _afford_ the luxury of occasionally releasing something with more niche appeal. Much like Mazda with the MX-5 perhaps.



The MX-5 is a very good example, I like that illustration, it explains the situation with a very simple example. 

If we are looking at per product base, then you are certain correct that niche products such as N8 and C9 will not see the light of day, but then, it depends on how you utilize your resource.  For example, we devoted a lot of resource to N8, but we have migrated the headphone amplifier implementation to A01 and T01 Audio Motherboard, and the Dual Timber system to N3Pro, including the skills involved to install vacuum tubes in a cramp DAP circuit board.  Hopefully C9 will also create new product opportunities for Cayin.


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> That was why I asked “how come Cayin did not allow a DC input for C9”.  If the battery limitations was all that you said it was
> 
> Yes, I understand your statement about Cayin perceiving the market, but as a consumers, they always love to have options.  Certainly it doesn’t hurt to have an outlet on the C9 chassis and as you said, by pass the battery filters for the supplying rails.



It wasn't in the design, we don't see the need.  The C9 has achieved way beyond our initial product plan already, we didn't please everyone, and we couldn't.


----------



## ahossam

Andykong said:


> Nope, you cannot plug in a charger for several days.  The protection circuit of 18650 is more specific than 3.7V Lithium battery commonly used in DAP and 3C mobile devices.
> 
> Start with a low battery capacity (1 out of 4 LED), charge your C9 and playback in Class AB, and feed with a source that does not connect to a USB charger. you should be able to charge and playback 24 hours non-stop, Alex has tried similar setting already,



Okay this might sound silly, do I have to burn in each input/output, each timbre SS/tube, and each class AB/A?


----------



## xand

ahossam said:


> Okay this might sound silly, do I have to burn in each input/output, each timbre SS/tube, and each class AB/A?



I would guess... No for inputs, no for SS/tube (because even tube uses the SS system) maybe yes for AB/A... (The B bits probably aren't used when A is selected).

🤣


----------



## LabelH (Feb 4, 2021)

ahossam said:


> Okay this might sound silly, do I have to burn in each input/output, each timbre SS/tube, and each class AB/A?



plus balance, unbalance 
IMO, they already sounds good out of the box. Transparent to the source and natural (mininum) colouration to my ears.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 4, 2021)

Andykong said:


> It wasn't in the design, we don't see the need.  The C9 has achieved way beyond our initial product plan already, we didn't please everyone, and we couldn't.


Honestly, you don’t have *to please *everyone, just consumers, and *consumers* always *love more options *than less, right ? Just an idea. Hard to swallow that “limitations existed and acknowledged”, but no options to get further
Anyways, I get your point.  Let’s see how this is going, and if I like it enough then I will look into further modifying for the LPSU


xand said:


> I would guess... No for inputs, no for SS/tube (because even tube uses the SS system) maybe yes for AB/A... (The B bits probably aren't used when A is selected).
> 
> 🤣


you would have to burn in each circuits alone
Tube, SS, Class A, Class AB
Don’t have to burn in input, only burn in what you needed most, but basically you also should too, because it can convert balances to single and single to balanced


----------



## twister6

Whitigir said:


> Honestly, you don’t have *to please *everyone, just consumers, and *consumers* always *love more options *than less, right ? Just an idea.  Anyways, I get your point.  Let’s see how this is going, and if I like it enough then I will look into further modifying for the LPSU
> ...
> you would have to burn in each circuits alone
> Tube, SS, Class A, Class AB
> Don’t have to burn in input, only burn in what you needed most, but basically you also should too, because it can convert balances to single and single to balanced



Vince, I think you just reinforced your own reply of "consumers love more options" with C9 giving you "Tube, SS, Class A, Class AB" options   And on top of that you can use it as amplifier or pre-amp.


----------



## Whitigir

twister6 said:


> Vince, I think you just reinforced your own reply of "consumers love more options" with C9 giving you "Tube, SS, Class A, Class AB" options   And on top of that you can use it as amplifier or pre-amp.


Yes, and I did (also the reasons why I bought into preorder before anything else ), though I don’t ask something unique and specific anyways.  If the C9 is good, then who wouldn’t love the options to be running continuously off the wall ? And then taken on the go with batteries ?  On top of that Cayin can even produce LPSU too


----------



## Andykong (Feb 4, 2021)

ahossam said:


> Okay this might sound silly, do I have to burn in each input/output, each timbre SS/tube, and each class AB/A?



Cayin has provided a fairly detail functional diagram, you can figure out the optimum burn in setting:


Input selection: that is a switching circuit, no need to burn in.
Timbre Circuit:  You need to burn in Vacuum tube and Solid State (discrete components) separately
SE/BAL conversion: SE/SE, BAL/BAL is direct pass through, SE to BAL involve an inverted phase amplifier, so I suggest you only burn in SE input BAL output.
Primary Gain Control:  Set to High Gain during burn in
Volume Control: Use Line in mode during burn in
Discrete Headphone Amplifier: Class A and Class AB are identical circuit at different operational mode, so there is no need to burn in Class A specifically, focus with Class AB is OK.
Summary: Set C9 to SE input, BAL output, high gain, Line input mode, and burn in Tube and SS timbre separately.


----------



## ahossam

Andykong said:


> Cayin has provided a fairly detail functional diagram, you can figure out the optimum burn in setting:
> 
> 
> Input selection: that is a switching circuit, no need to burn in.
> ...



Nice! Thank you.


----------



## twister6

I'm not at the point yet to share sound impressions since it is way too early, but a few people ping me with questions if I consider C9 to be portable or transportable.

As I mentioned before, I'm DAP/IEM guy, not into desktop setups or full size headphones.  Not because I don't care about it, but I just prefer portable setup on the go for the convenience of it.  I do have a few portable amps, but obviously C9 is not in the same category to be compared to its distant younger sibling C5 or any other pocket amps.  Something like Broadway S (I only have single ended version since it is more IEM friendly) is definitely not a portable amp, but also not in a category where you will carry it around.  It will be transportable to move from one desk to another without interrupting the playback since you are not plugged into the wall.  Romi Audio BX2 is a portable amp, though in comparison to C9 it is only solid state and Class A, very powerful, almost too powerful for IEMs which is an overkill.  But here is a thing, while it is shorter than C9, it also 10mm wider and a little thicker which puts it between portable and transportable.  For my own personal preference, the width of the stack up is one of the deciding factors between portable and transportable because it makes it easier to grip.  And for the reference, C9 footprint has the same width as DX300, just a little bit shorter.





And here are a few shots I just took.  Sorry for the quality, I only use my phone and typically at night with lights on in the kitchen pictures look sharper.  It is morning now and in a daylight pictures look "softer", but you get the idea   Very solid build and smooth volume control.  And as already mentioned, C9 offers Solid State and Tube timbre, Class A and AB so you can have SS Class A or SS Class AB and Tube Class A or Tube Class AB.  You also have H/L gain.  And can switch between AMP and Pre-AMP functionality where as AMP you are controlling the volume from C9, and as Pre-AMP the volume of C9 is fixed and you are controlling the input from your source (either if you have variable output Line Out like in R8/R6 2020 or LPGT, or double amping from headphone output).

   

Battery unit is easy to slide in/out and secured with 2 screws, and if you are not carrying C9 around you can leave it without screws attached to make it easier for a battery replacement.


----------



## bluestorm1992

twister6 said:


> I'm not at the point yet to share sound impressions since it is way too early, but a few people ping me with questions if I consider C9 to be portable or transportable.
> 
> As I mentioned before, I'm DAP/IEM guy, not into desktop setups or full size headphones.  Not because I don't care about it, but I just prefer portable setup on the go for the convenience of it.  I do have a few portable amps, but obviously C9 is not in the same category to be compared to its distant younger sibling C5 or any other pocket amps.  Something like Broadway S (I only have single ended version since it is more IEM friendly) is definitely not a portable amp, but also not in a category where you will carry it around.  It will be transportable to move from one desk to another without interrupting the playback since you are not plugged into the wall.  Romi Audio BX2 is a portable amp, though in comparison to C9 it is only solid state and Class A, very powerful, almost too powerful for IEMs which is an overkill.  But here is a thing, while it is shorter than C9, it also 10mm wider and a little thicker which puts it between portable and transportable.  For my own personal preference, the width of the stack up is one of the deciding factors between portable and transportable because it makes it easier to grip.  And for the reference, C9 footprint has the same width as DX300, just a little bit shorter.
> 
> ...


Wish mine will arrive sooner!

Any early impression for its comparison with Broadway S?


----------



## Nostoi

twister6 said:


> I'm not at the point yet to share sound impressions since it is way too early, but a few people ping me with questions if I consider C9 to be portable or transportable.
> 
> As I mentioned before, I'm DAP/IEM guy, not into desktop setups or full size headphones.  Not because I don't care about it, but I just prefer portable setup on the go for the convenience of it.  I do have a few portable amps, but obviously C9 is not in the same category to be compared to its distant younger sibling C5 or any other pocket amps.  Something like Broadway S (I only have single ended version since it is more IEM friendly) is definitely not a portable amp, but also not in a category where you will carry it around.  It will be transportable to move from one desk to another without interrupting the playback since you are not plugged into the wall.  Romi Audio BX2 is a portable amp, though in comparison to C9 it is only solid state and Class A, very powerful, almost too powerful for IEMs which is an overkill.  But here is a thing, while it is shorter than C9, it also 10mm wider and a little thicker which puts it between portable and transportable.  For my own personal preference, the width of the stack up is one of the deciding factors between portable and transportable because it makes it easier to grip.  And for the reference, C9 footprint has the same width as DX300, just a little bit shorter.
> 
> ...


Cheers, very interesting. Any initial impressions on how the SS mode compares between the BX2 and the C9 would be super welcome.


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> Wish mine will arrive sooner!
> 
> Any early impression for its comparison with Broadway S?


Did you opt for overnight ? Lol


----------



## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> Did you opt for overnight ? Lol


Nope, just regular shipping. Will take a while.


----------



## twister6

Just had a few minutes to run a quick test.  Using ATH-R70x, open back, 99dB sensitivity, 470ohm impedance, 3.5mm SE termination, my hardest to drive pair of cans.  Using N6ii w/E02 as my source and switching between C9, BX2, and Broadway S amps.  With C9 and BX2 I was using 4.4mm interconnect to N6ii, while with Broadway S which has RCA inputs I'm using AQ RCA split to 3.5mm cable and ddhifi single ended to 4.4mm adapter (the one which uses only L+/R+/GND side) to connect to E02.

Didn't spent too much time analyzing the sound, though I can hear BX2 being a little more transparent and colder while C9 (SS) and Broadway S being warmer with fuller body.  Switching C9 to Tube changes timbre to sound more analog, smoother.  Also, you can clearly hear the difference when switching C9 between _Class A_ and _Class AB_ where *AB* sounds tighter and faster with notes having cleaner edges, while *A* is smoother, more relaxed, with notes having longer decay.

Now, regarding the volume since it was a hot topic of previous discussion.  I have all three amps in *low gain* and approximating the volume % by looking at the volume knob.  So, under all these conditions and with ATH-R70x approximately volume matched, BX2 is at about 20%, C9 is at about 50%, and Broadways S is at about 75% volume.  Like I said before, BX2 is a power monster for full size headphones, while Broadway S (Single ended) was optimized for IEMs.  This puts C9 to be somewhere in the middle optimized for both IEMs and headphones.


----------



## bluestorm1992

twister6 said:


> Just had a few minutes to run a quick test.  Using ATH-R70x, open back, 99dB sensitivity, 470ohm impedance, 3.5mm SE termination, my hardest to drive pair of cans.  Using N6ii w/E02 as my source and switching between C9, BX2, and Broadway S amps.  With C9 and BX2 I was using 4.4mm interconnect to N6ii, while with Broadway S which has RCA inputs I'm using AQ RCA split to 3.5mm cable and ddhifi single ended to 4.4mm adapter (the one which uses only L+/R+/GND side) to connect to E02.
> 
> Didn't spent too much time analyzing the sound, though I can hear BX2 being a little more transparent and colder while C9 (SS) and Broadway S being warmer with fuller body.  Switching C9 to Tube changes timbre to sound more analog, smoother.  Also, you can clearly hear the difference when switching C9 between _Class A_ and _Class AB_ where *AB* sounds tighter and faster with notes having cleaner edges, while *A* is smoother, more relaxed, with notes having longer decay.
> 
> Now, regarding the volume since it was a hot topic of previous discussion.  I have all three amps in *low gain* and approximating the volume % by looking at the volume knob.  So, under all these conditions and with ATH-R70x approximately volume matched, BX2 is at about 20%, C9 is at about 50%, and Broadways S is at about 75% volume.  Like I said before, BX2 is a power monster for full size headphones, while Broadway S (Single ended) was optimized for IEMs.  This puts C9 to be somewhere in the middle optimized for both IEMs and headphones.


Thanks so much for your early impressions! Really appreciate your work. 

Out of curiosity, can you also spare some time to test how differences sources would impact C9’s performance? I am debating between whether I should get Hiby R6 or R8 for it as the source. Thanks so much!!!


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 4, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> Thanks so much for your early impressions! Really appreciate your work.
> 
> Out of curiosity, can you also spare some time to test how differences sources would impact C9’s performance? I am debating between whether I should get Hiby R6 or R8 for it as the source. Thanks so much!!!


Then your IC will also be very important 


twister6 said:


> Just had a few minutes to run a quick test.  Using ATH-R70x, open back, 99dB sensitivity, 470ohm impedance, 3.5mm SE termination, my hardest to drive pair of cans.  Using N6ii w/E02 as my source and switching between C9, BX2, and Broadway S amps.  With C9 and BX2 I was using 4.4mm interconnect to N6ii, while with Broadway S which has RCA inputs I'm using AQ RCA split to 3.5mm cable and ddhifi single ended to 4.4mm adapter (the one which uses only L+/R+/GND side) to connect to E02.
> 
> Didn't spent too much time analyzing the sound, though I can hear BX2 being a little more transparent and colder while C9 (SS) and Broadway S being warmer with fuller body.  Switching C9 to Tube changes timbre to sound more analog, smoother.  Also, you can clearly hear the difference when switching C9 between _Class A_ and _Class AB_ where *AB* sounds tighter and faster with notes having cleaner edges, while *A* is smoother, more relaxed, with notes having longer decay.
> 
> Now, regarding the volume since it was a hot topic of previous discussion.  I have all three amps in *low gain* and approximating the volume % by looking at the volume knob.  So, under all these conditions and with ATH-R70x approximately volume matched, BX2 is at about 20%, C9 is at about 50%, and Broadways S is at about 75% volume.  Like I said before, BX2 is a power monster for full size headphones, while Broadway S (Single ended) was optimized for IEMs.  This puts C9 to be somewhere in the middle optimized for both IEMs and headphones.


Thanks for the early impressions.  Maybe BX2 has a more of amplifications stages, but as Andy said, it may not have enough swing voltage/slew rate coming off the batteries ? So , C9 is a good choice here, low gain and 50% is enough.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> Then your IC will also be very important
> 
> Thanks for the early impressions.  Maybe BX2 has a more of amplifications stages, but as Andy said, it may not have enough swing voltage/slew rate coming off the batteries ? So , C9 is a good choice here, low gain and 50% is enough.


Any recommended IC products? 

So far I only have a 4.4 to 4.4 IC from Moon Audio. Works OK but I am not a fan of their huge end connectors with their brand name on it...


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> Any recommended IC products?
> 
> So far I only have a 4.4 to 4.4 IC from Moon Audio. Works OK but I am not a fan of their huge end connectors with their brand name on it...


Moon is great for the price , otherwise the best is DIY.  You can cater to every specific personal needs .  
The best right now for the money, practicality, and performances.  I would think an LC-RE splicing into an IC of 6” and the rest for another short MMCX with plugs of choice would be best ?  I love the LC-RE, especially the adaptable jacks and the analog signatures, soundstage performances, also the wires itself is ohhhhh sooo soft and reliable


----------



## twister6

bluestorm1992 said:


> Thanks so much for your early impressions! Really appreciate your work.
> 
> Out of curiosity, can you also spare some time to test how differences sources would impact C9’s performance? I am debating between whether I should get Hiby R6 or R8 for it as the source. Thanks so much!!!



Different sources means different DACs, and with LO you are taking internal amp section out of the equation.  So for example, tested with N6ii w/E02 and R6 2020, each one has dual ES9038Q2M and with C9 it sounds similar.  Maybe some subtle differences but it is close enough.  Then, I switched to R8 with its dual AK4497 and C9 pair up is a little different, slightly warmer and with a bit smoother treble response.  As expected, it will vary based on which DAC you are connecting it to.

If you really do care about the change in sound relative to LO and DAC selection, I think you are better off with N6ii since its modular design will give you a choice between AK4497, PCM1792A, ES9038Pro, and ES9038Q2M DACs, more sound shaping choices in addition to C9 solid state and tubes and class A and AB.


----------



## MusicTeck

The Cayin C9 is now in stock at MusicTeck!  The wait is finally over : )

https://shop.musicteck.com/products...1&_sid=a7233f2a0&_ss=r&variant=32712909619262


----------



## bluestorm1992

twister6 said:


> Different sources means different DACs, and with LO you are taking internal amp section out of the equation.  So for example, tested with N6ii w/E02 and R6 2020, each one has dual ES9038Q2M and with C9 it sounds similar.  Maybe some subtle differences but it is close enough.  Then, I switched to R8 with its dual AK4497 and C9 pair up is a little different, slightly warmer and with a bit smoother treble response.  As expected, it will vary based on which DAC you are connecting it to.
> 
> If you really do care about the change in sound relative to LO and DAC selection, I think you are better off with N6ii since its modular design will give you a choice between AK4497, PCM1792A, ES9038Pro, and ES9038Q2M DACs, more sound shaping choices in addition to C9 solid state and tubes and class A and AB.


Thanks so much! Really appreciate you taking your time to give feedback.


----------



## Whitigir

MusicTeck said:


> The Cayin C9 is now in stock at MusicTeck!  The wait is finally over : )
> 
> https://shop.musicteck.com/products...1&_sid=a7233f2a0&_ss=r&variant=32712909619262


thanks Andrew @MusicTeck ! Totally recommended


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 4, 2021)

OK, I finally decided to order the N6ii with A02 motherboard to complete this "default combo". Will report some thoughts here after getting it. I think it will be interesting to evaluate the impact of sources now that I have 4 very different gears: Lotoo PAW Gold, Cayin N6ii (A02), Burson Composer 3XP, and Hugo 2.

Will need to let go some gears.. Currently on my radar are the Burson Conposer DAC and the 2go.


----------



## lumdicks

Just received my C9 today. Need a bit burn in and audition to share in details but first impression is so amazing. Tube Class A is my favorite so far and I will spend some time on pairing it with my sources, IEMs and headphone for more sharing.


----------



## xand

Mine is delayed in HK.. 😭


----------



## jonstatt

lumdicks said:


> Just received my C9 today. Need a bit burn in and audition to share in details but first impression is so amazing. Tube Class A is my favorite so far and I will spend some time on pairing it with my sources, IEMs and headphone for more sharing.



Just received mine from Audio Concierge in the UK. Even without burn in, very favourable first impression . Listening with Thummim IEM.... stunning


----------



## jonstatt (Feb 5, 2021)

xand said:


> Mine is delayed in HK.. 😭



There are delays due to the last minute shipping rush before Chinese New Year. I had something else held up and the seller was badgering DHL multiple times to pull the item from the HK warehouse where things are held that are shipped from the mainland to HK first. my item sat for over a week there. In contrast DJI shipped me a li ion battery case for my Osmo pocket direct with DHL from Shenzhen to the UK and it was with me in 2 working days. It still went via HK but because it’s DHL end to end , it’s express all the way.

Hope you get your C9 soon!


----------



## Andykong

jonstatt said:


> There are delays due to the last minute shipping rush before Chinese New Year. I had something else held up and the seller was badgering DHL multiple times to pull the item from the HK warehouse where things are held that are shipped from the mainland to HK first. my item sat for over a week there. In contrast DJI shipped me a li ion battery case for my Osmo pocket direct with DHL from Shenzhen to the UK and it was with me in 2 working days. It still went via HK but because it’s DHL end to end , it’s express all the way.
> 
> Hope you get your C9 soon!



Product with Lithium battery installed will go through HK, DHL China won't take these order directly.

I did mentioned earlier that our first batch of C9 were hold up in HK for about a week.  They don't even log the item into the system during that period, untrackable like a black hole during that time.


----------



## jonstatt

Andykong said:


> Product with Lithium battery installed will go through HK, DHL China won't take these order directly.
> 
> I did mentioned earlier that our first batch of C9 were hold up in HK for about a week.  They don't even log the item into the system during that period, untrackable like a black hole during that time.



DJI manage to ship with batteries directly from China mainland with DHL. Maybe they have special arrangement as they are big company. If you are interested I can forward you the tracking for this battery case . The box had a Sticker on it saying cargo hold only and DHL did open and reseal the outer box to have a  look....they didn’t open the product box. It would be better if you could avoid the whole HK warehouse thing.


----------



## Whitigir

lumdicks said:


> Just received my C9 today. Need a bit burn in and audition to share in details but first impression is so amazing. Tube Class A is my favorite so far and I will spend some time on pairing it with my sources, IEMs and headphone for more sharing.


Ooohhh!!! So nice !! I am waiting for it here and will let my ears be the judge.  I have no doubt using LPGT Ti, and you would prefer Tube and class A


----------



## Whitigir

My apologies @Andykong , I looked into the internal pictures of C9 again and indeed you are right, Cayin made the C9 as small as possible, so fitting the additional outlet to allow direct AC and LPSU is not feasible, and not good looking 

I gotta admit that one of the first reason why I bought C9 is due to the small footprint as well


----------



## lumdicks

Whitigir said:


> Ooohhh!!! So nice !! I am waiting for it here and will let my ears be the judge.  I have no doubt using LPGT Ti, and you would prefer Tube and class A


Hope it works well with your HD800S.


----------



## twister6

Whitigir said:


> Then your IC will also be very important
> 
> Thanks for the early impressions.  Maybe BX2 has a more of amplifications stages, but as Andy said, it may not have enough swing voltage/slew rate coming off the batteries ? So , C9 is a good choice here, low gain and 50% is enough.



Another thing to keep in mind, my ATH-R70x is 3.5mm terminated, not balanced.  So, I was running C9 in low gain with a volume set to 50% from SE output.  If I would to run it off the BAL output, volume would have been much lower since:


----------



## Andykong (Feb 5, 2021)

twister6 said:


> Another thing to keep in mind, my ATH-R70x is 3.5mm terminated, not balanced.  So, I was running C9 in low gain with a volume set to 50% from SE output.  If I would to run it off the BAL output, volume would have been much lower since:



To quantify your explanation, when you switch from single-ended low gain to balanced high gain, you gained roughly 12dB headroom, that's quite an substantial improvement in driving and handling capability.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 5, 2021)

Holy Cow!!! He arrived !!!!

Here is how I stacked him up and I chose Max as my line out over other players after the auditioning

And a Pelican Case to carry this stack with me anywhere I would love to.

The stack still allows removable battery tray
The stack allows Max to be slipped out of his Case
The stack allows removable solution for each piece if needed
The Stack allows laying Max face down without worry as there is a case

The Stack solution can be purchased by Walgreen or DrugMart in the Picture hanging isle 

You will notice that I arranged my Pelican Case carefully to keep both the player and stack in place including the Interconnect.  The explanation is that this is my “EndGame” IC, the Furutech doesn’t like to be inserted and removed too many times.  So I carefully Matched up the other DAPS that I have on hands and chose the best to let it stays this way.  They are officially “Married”

What made this stack stands out with Max as a source ? Well, Soundstage, clarity and airiness, details, imaging are much better than other DAPs!!!

You may ask why am I using stock cables outlet on Hd800s, well because my main is the HD800S-Anniversary and so she stays home with the best cables I have had


----------



## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> Holy Cow!!! He arrived !!!!
> 
> Here is how I stacked him up and I chose Max as my line out over other players after the auditioning
> 
> ...


Now the most important question: How does it sound with your HD800s!


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> Now the most important question: How does it sound with your HD800s!


Plenty good Hah!!! I was worrying for nothing.  The C9 ain’t going anywhere


----------



## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> Holy Cow!!! He arrived !!!!
> 
> Here is how I stacked him up and I chose Max as my line out over other players after the auditioning
> 
> ...


Damn I am so jealous, mine would not arrive until early next week.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> Plenty good Hah!!! I was worrying for nothing.  The C9 ain’t going anywhere


Great that it works for you! Congrats! With burn-in the C9 should get even better.


----------



## Whitigir

The Nutubes takes about 20 minutes to really dishes out it whole performances


----------



## jonstatt

For those that received theirs,  when you remove the c9 from the box, underneath there is a square cutout , not very deep, as if a card or something should be there, but there is nothing in mine. Did anyone else notice this?


----------



## Whitigir

jonstatt said:


> For those that received theirs,  when you remove the c9 from the box, underneath there is a square cutout , not very deep, as if a card or something should be there, but there is nothing in mine. Did anyone else notice this?


I saw nothing in there


----------



## Whitigir

I attached some pads so I can also flip around the C9 and navigate the Max screen.  It doesn’t look all that bad


----------



## Bosk

Whitigir said:


> The Nutubes takes about 20 minutes to really dishes out it whole performances


Its very difficult to gauge one component from a piece of equipment's effect on performance, but are you able to comment on the character of nutubes compared with the sterotypical sound of real tubes? Very curious to know how close they come to the real thing.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 5, 2021)

Bosk said:


> Its very difficult to gauge one component from a piece of equipment's effect on performance, but are you able to comment on the character of nutubes compared with the sterotypical sound of real tubes? Very curious to know how close they come to the real thing.


Sweet and fluid vocal, mid.  It had vivid textures and the complexity...I would say that it has a faster transient than classic tubes, but still carry the tubes characteristic in the lower bass.  Somehow it also has very dynamic mid bass as well.  That could be due to many things and I think one of the reason is that it is input tube stage, rather than output.  It is fair to say that the Nutubes is a hybrid between solid and classic tubes in the C9.  The soundstage is less expansive than SS, also it is more intimidating than SS

this is by matching with a very neutral source , the MAX

if you ask me to judge the tier level of C9 tubes implementations, I would say that it is a very sophisticated highend sounding for a tube amplifiers


----------



## normie610

Whitigir said:


> Sweet and fluid vocal, mid.  It had vivid textures and the complexity...I would say that it has a faster transient than classic tubes, but still carry the tubes characteristic in the lower bass.  Somehow it also has very dynamic mid bass as well.  That could be due to many things and I think one of the reason is that it is input tube stage, rather than output.  It is fair to say that the Nutubes is a hybrid between solid and classic tubes in the C9.  The soundstage is less expansive than SS, also it is more intimidating than SS
> 
> this is by matching with a very neutral source , the MAX
> 
> if you ask me to judge the tier level of C9 tubes implementations, I would say that it is a very sophisticated highend sounding for a tube amplifiers



Congrats! Now you have the perfect setup for audiophile on a bike!   Glad the C9 work out for you man


----------



## Whitigir

normie610 said:


> Congrats! Now you have the perfect setup for audiophile on a bike!   Glad the C9 work out for you man


Except that it get pretty warmed up.  Probably not a good idea to run class A, tubes, and keeping it inside the backpack lol


----------



## normie610

Whitigir said:


> Except that it get pretty warmed up.  Probably not a good idea to run class A, tubes, and keeping it inside the backpack lol



Hahahaha....yes I forgot that class A can run pretty hot. Is there a major sound difference between A and AB tube?


----------



## Bosk

Whitigir said:


> Except that it get pretty warmed up.  Probably not a good idea to run class A, tubes, and keeping it inside the backpack lol


My old ALO CDM was the same, in fact it was pretty effective to use as a hot water bottle when listening in bed.


----------



## Whitigir

Eventhough I have the C9 warmed up by a lot when using Tube, Class A, Balanced all around.  I am very happy because I know that it is dissipating the heat very effectively through it small chassis 

Alien Eyes for the night !


----------



## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> Eventhough I have the C9 warmed up by a lot when using Tube, Class A, Balanced all around.  I am very happy because I know that it is dissipating the heat very effectively through it small chassis
> 
> Alien Eyes for the night !


More thoughts and impressions please!


----------



## Bosk

Whitigir said:


> Eventhough I have the C9 warmed up by a lot when using Tube, Class A, Balanced all around.  I am very happy because I know that it is dissipating the heat very effectively through it small chassis
> 
> Alien Eyes for the night !


It sounds superficial but Korg should work on tweaking the illumination color if the technology allows it. Nothing beats warm orange tube glow on a cold winter's night, except a real fire which I suppose it has the psychological effect of representing.


----------



## Zambu

Can we at some point get a picture of @Whitigir riding his bike with C9+MAX+HD800


----------



## jmills8

Zambu said:


> Can we at some point get a picture of @Whitigir riding his bike with C9+MAX+HD800


Or riding a unicorn.


----------



## Andykong (Feb 6, 2021)

twister6 said:


> Another thing to keep in mind, my ATH-R70x is 3.5mm terminated, not balanced.  So, I was running C9 in low gain with a volume set to 50% from SE output.  If I would to run it off the BAL output, volume would have been much lower since:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler



Since Twister6 has raised an interested topic regarding volume would have been much lower if run it off the BAL output (or maybe high gain will also cause similar effect), I'll take this opportunity to explain the volume and gain control of C9 in detail. This is one of the critical designs that facilitate C9 to work well with both IEMs and headphones and the implementation is way more complicated than we anticipated in the very beginning.

*Gain Control, Volume Control and Input Sensitivity*

The C9 volume control is divided into two parts. The front-end control is a high quality 4-channels ALPS potentiometer, this will provide a firm, reliable and familiar rotation control experience to our users. The back end of the volume control system is a PAIR of low distortion 130 steps resistance ladder stereo electronic volume, MUSES72320, this is a very high quality volume control chip, it is more sophisticated that then PGA2311A used in N8 DAP. The PGA2311A has internal op-amp that can’t be bypass and that will introduce a small amount of background noise and its own tonal characteristic to the circuit. The MUSES72320 integrated with our discrete headphone amplifier circuit completely, instead of relying on internal Op-Amp. Each MUSES72320 is equivalent to 4 potentiometers in one chip: 2 for stereo volume and 2 for stereo gain, we need to install a pair of them for fully balanced implementation.

​
Although it comes with its own gain circuit, we want to further enhance the gain control of C9, so we have added a preliminary gain control circuit before the MUSES72320 electronic volume control, and use a MCU to select between internal gain circuit and our own gain circuit according to the volume level setting. For the record, we have two MCU in C9, one for volume/gain control, and the other in Power management circuit.

The ALPS + 2xMUSES72320 in C9 delivers a volume control system that is very precise, highly linear, and extremely flexible so that you'll have enough "room" to adjust your volume from highly sensitive IEM to full size headphones. During the critical volume range (~63dB to -5dB), we offer 0.5dB attenuation per step, and that span across from slightly before 9 o'clock position to 4 o'clock position of the ALPS volume knob, roughly speaking.

​
Take Alex's little experiment for example. When you change from single-ended mode to balanced mode, the output power will indeed increase significantly, 4 times more at 150+ Ohms, or more than 3 times below 150 Ohm. However the volume position will not go down linearly to 1/3 or 1/4 of original position. That's because power vs dB is a logarithmic function, not a linear function. To quantify the dB vs power relationship, 4 times more power will increase volume by 6dB (check WiKi for detail explanation), and in C9 volume control, that will be 12 steps, or from 12 o'clock (61/130) to 11:15 o'clock (49/30)

Another factor that affects the relationship between gain control and output power is input level. We have documented that in the input sensitivity section of our specification table.

​
If you are in Line input mode, C9 can deliver the stated output power in low gain IF your front-end can meet the output level as stated in the Input Sensitivity of our specification table, that’s why didn’t list high or low gain setting as an variable in power rating. For instance, you only need 1.5V Single-ended and 3.0V Balanced in high gain for C9 to deliver the rated output power, but if you switch to low gain, you need 3.0V Single-ended and 6V balanced for C9 to deliver the same maximum rated output power.  Similarly, if you are using PRE-amp input mode and your preamp (or phone out) offers adequate output level (e.g., 8.4V from A02), you can achieve maximum output power at low gain.

The question is, do you need the extra power provided by high gain even when your output level does not meet the requirement as stated in the input sensitivity table? This is more a headroom issue, so you can consider high gain as extra 6dB headroom at difficult load rather than how many watts is needed to produce 100dB loudness at 1 kHz. On the other hand, headroom is a personal requirement because it also depends on music genre, dynamic range of music passage and/or person preference in music presentation.  In my person experience, if the sensitivity of my headphone is not too low (e.g, enough sound pressure before 3 o'clock position), then I should have enough headroom even at low gain. For your reference, from 3 o'clock position (step 109/130) to max volume is roughly 13dB. I prefer to stay in low gain all the way because low gain offers slightly better dynamic range and SNR over high gain (again, check the specification table for the exact different at different mode).


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> Then your IC will also be very important
> 
> Thanks for the early impressions.  Maybe BX2 has a more of amplifications stages, but as Andy said, it may not have enough swing voltage/slew rate coming off the batteries ? So , C9 is a good choice here, low gain and 50% is enough.



Alex was comparing to volume knob position which, in the case of C9, is dictated by a volume setting table we set arbitrarily to accommodate the IEM and headphone market at the same time.  We can alter the volume setting table to produce the same output at 20% instead of 50% volume setting, that will change the user impression completely, rating C9 as a very powerful amplifier, but then we can't offer enough adjustment for sensitive IEM.


----------



## Andykong (Feb 6, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> Holy Cow!!! He arrived !!!!
> 
> Here is how I stacked him up and I chose Max as my line out over other players after the auditioning
> 
> ...



Amazing.   

You use Pelican 1170,  that certainly will provide ample space for your stack, I was hoping that 1120 can work for me, but 7.3" seems very tight even when I use L-shape  4.4mm connectors.   I use a "softer" L-connector cable when I travel, I'll switch to the Sommer Excelsior Blue Water with Plussound Gold Plated 4.4mm connector at home/office, and Cayin stock cable at shows and events.  Can't have the luxury to "marry" a cable with C9, good for you.







Whitigir said:


> I attached some pads so I can also flip around the C9 and navigate the Max screen.  It doesn’t look all that bad



I am looking for round rubber feet like this, couldn't find it so far, only the circular but flat "bumper" feet available locally.


----------



## Andykong

*Cayin's Chinese New Year Holiday Announcement*

The Chinese New Year is around the corner, all teams in Cayin will be having their yearly holiday starting from this Sunday.

Holiday period: 7 Feb _2021 to 20 Feb 2021_

We'll resume office operation on 21 Feb 2021 

All members of Cayin wish everyone an amazing Year of the Ox.


----------



## Whitigir

Happy new year to Cayin and Andy


----------



## b0ssMax

jonstatt said:


> For those that received theirs,  when you remove the c9 from the box, underneath there is a square cutout , not very deep, as if a card or something should be there, but there is nothing in mine. Did anyone else notice this?



Nothing should be there, but there there is a pull down on the front (outside) and you slide out like a drawer the accessories. The cutout actually peeks into the area of that drawer. if that makes sense.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 6, 2021)

The C9 has a very precisely controlled volume wheels

*Ways better than DMP Z1
*Ways and Ways better than MAX alone

I gotta say that it allows *adjustments so finely* that listening to an IER-Z1R with a very powerful amp is very “*Enjoyable*”

_I previously was never able to enjoy the Z1R this way_, Eventhough I like the Z1R and always prefer to have more power to drive it, *neither DMP nor the Max is preferable*.  Why ? Because _I was never able to finely adjust the volume the ways I wanted_, it is *either too loud or too low*....and most of the time would have a _slight channel imbalances_ that throw the imaging and sound scape off balances

Cayin ! Congratulations!!! With the C9, you have demonstrated to me and my very personal experiences that you can do, and so is your C9, in my opinion, the finest Portable amplifier to date!!! Whether it is driving HD800S or my IeR Z1R


----------



## Whitigir

*Do I need an additional Amplifier for portable system if I only use In ear buds ?*
This has been the question forever for our folks.  Please allow me a moment to share my thoughts with everyone.

_First of all_, dedicated Amp are also into different segments, and mostly can be categorized into Mid and High end tier (2 tiers).  If you specifically speaking into C9, then C9 is the High-End tier, no doubt.

_Now, Practicality_, There is never enough power.  How so ? The density of the tonal body, the level of controls on each notes, plays, bridges, and then the textures, the details, the finesses.  All in all, an amplifier job is to amplify an analog signal to be more powerful and remain constant in it power distributions.  That is given the movements of your playback gears, the impedance changes according to all the frequencies, and so a good amplifications is ideally never starving out or lacking the power to amplify the signal to the level at any given specific frequencies.  It is easier said than done for anything in life.

*1/ Why an Amp* ? Because with a separate battery and power supply rails, the external amplifier will always have it own to run on, and technically speaking, that is already an improvement over any All in One solution.  The cross talks would improve.

*2/ Why not to stack up an Amp* ? Because it is a stack, and you will lose the ability to carry it around as you will need additional space, cables, charger, and the ability to pocket it 

*I am still confused....Do I need an amp ? *
It depends on what you are looking to achieve. Most of the time 80% of it, having an additional amp will almost always improve your playback experiences and performances.  But because you are into portability world, *the gain VS the practicality will be diminished on a scale*.  _Let’s look into the %20 of why you don’t need an Amp._

1/ If you have invested heavily into flagship players, and mostly Expensive one. Why ? 
Yes, I know the HiFiMan joke about it being expensive, it has to sound good. _But the fact is that, being expensive just means that the R&D to Production cost VS MSRP have to be sustainable in any business models_.  So, in the market where *Competitions are everywhere, there is no room for errors*.  Given the facts that when customers perceive a flaw in your execution of a product whether in Price/performances/support/reliability.  *Your reputation is damaged* and it is less likely that specific customer would return.
For those reasons alone, as a customer, you are almost guaranteed that an expensive products are always a good call to judge a company products 
So, once you have invested into a Flagship of a company DAP, for example, do you need an amp ?  The answer is that , _Yes you Do and also No you dont_

*A/ Yes*: It only makes senses to seek for a very high end and *flagship Amplifier to pair with* your flagship DAP.  *Why ? Because the implementations*, _the level of engineering, the cost to develope and produce such a niche Amplifier is substantial and that would mean that most of the time these Amplifier are very expensive_, but is also at the top top of the engineering scale.  And because form/size is always matter, together with being a dedicated device.  You are almost guaranteed to have an improvements.  _Howmuch % of improvement will you gain ? Whether it is worth it ? *That is your call, and I say let your ears be the judge*_

*B/ No, you don’t need an Amp:* _this is true when you only looking to amplify your system with a flagship DAP and a cheap Mid tier Amp_.  Why ? Because Even-though given it being dedicated, _the development and cost to productions were too low to guarantee a good engineering level for any company to perceive it as a substantial business model_.  In this case, most of the time, there will be degradations of sound as it would have to conduct through multiple connections.  _Though the fact that being a separated device, you would still benefit with an improved cross talk_.  *However*, you would be trading in for the *compromises of less Dynamic range* as the amplifiers were never invested in the degree to guarantee a constant power delivery for all frequencies, and sometimes even *Harmonic distortions* would hugely be degraded due to the architecture of an amplifiers.
_So in the case of looking for a low cost external amplifier ? For your high end DAPS ? *I would say No*, *because not worth it.  Not because you don’t benefit from it* _
What to look for when choosing an amplifier ? *Power output is one factor.  The most important is THD (total harmonic distortion) and (Dynamic Range).*

So why do I call *C9 as a being of a very high end portable Amplifie*r ? For Paper tiger fun alone.  _I challenge anyone to compare any other portable Amplifier on the market to outperform the C9 in *all 3 essential aspects: Power output, THD, Dynamic Range*_

Now, as I said, let one’s ears be the judge.  For my own experiences, the C9 stands as a top of this mountain, where proper amplifications and portability are counted for.  The performances is nothing short of breathes taking.  Your experiences will varies, and so please be your own judge.
Would C9 be a worthy investment ? *Yes! A huge Yes, especially if you are into portability.*  It can not get better than this at the moment....I can’t speak for the future.  But given the nature of the C9 as being a very sophisticated high end amplifier, the C9 can do your Source and gears justices Guaranteed, regardless if you are using mid tier DAPs as a source or high end DAPS.  The C9 will always show improvements for your systems..... and of course the better the source, the better the C9 will show it potentials.  For example, my Dx300-M8-Max, and Max clearly stood out 

Allow me to repeat, _one of the special feature of the C9 is that it was designed with In Ears and sensitive gears in mind._  The C9 *has flawless Volume controls*, Gain controls, and that level of Blackness in the Background !!!!


----------



## noplsestar

Whitigir said:


> *Do I need an additional Amplifier for portable system if I only use In ear buds ?*
> This has been the question forever for our folks.  Please allow me a moment to share my thoughts with everyone.
> 
> _First of all_, dedicated Amp are also into different segments, and mostly can be categorized into Mid and High end tier (2 tiers).  If you specifically speaking into C9, then C9 is the High-End tier, no doubt.
> ...


Here is a more technical post about why volume levels itself isn’t the problem but does the amp have enough current and are the dynamics of the headphone really being reveiled?
This is an interesting posting by @Liberatus if anyone wants to did deeper in that topic:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dia...byss-headphones.777618/page-172#post-15884384

Also @Whitigir concerning your „challenge“ to beat the C9. Do you by any chance have the possibility to compare the Romi Audio BX-2+ with the C9? Should be a fun TOTL portability amp shootout


----------



## jonstatt

Whitigir said:


> The C9 has a very precisely controlled volume wheels
> 
> *Ways better than DMP Z1
> *Ways and Ways better than MAX alone
> ...



What about the sound quality compared to the admittedly beautiful but quirky dmp-z1 ?


----------



## jonstatt

twister6 said:


> Another thing to keep in mind, my ATH-R70x is 3.5mm terminated, not balanced.  So, I was running C9 in low gain with a volume set to 50% from SE output.  If I would to run it off the BAL output, volume would have been much lower since:



Do you have a Thummim to try with the C9. I can't get over the synergy of this combination.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 6, 2021)

noplsestar said:


> Here is a more technical post about why volume levels itself isn’t the problem but does the amp have enough current and are the dynamics of the headphone really being reveiled?
> This is an interesting posting by @Liberatus if anyone wants to did deeper in that topic:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dia...byss-headphones.777618/page-172#post-15884384
> 
> Also @Whitigir concerning your „challenge“ to beat the C9. Do you by any chance have the possibility to compare the Romi Audio BX-2+ with the C9? Should be a fun TOTL portability amp shootout


The reasons why I did not invest into BX2 + Even-though it was cheaper

1/ It does a lot of LDO conversion to raise and boost the voltage rails from 3.7V into higher .  The C9 runs straight from 8.8V rails directly (Dual)

2/ BX2 + doesn’t have dual Korg, Pre in, Class A/AB

3/ BX2 have no removable 18650

Hence I said the C9 is a very sophisticated high end Amplifier.  Yes, the other specifications the BX2 + is very competitive.  But Power supply and the battery supplied voltage is the heart of every Battery devices.  The less conversions is the better.

Unfortunately, I don’t have raining $ into the pocket, So I don’t think I am going to invest into BX2 just for the sake of comparison.  For this purposes, I will take @twister6 impressions as is


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 6, 2021)

normie610 said:


> Hahahaha....yes I forgot that class A can run pretty hot. Is there a major sound difference between A and AB tube?


This is SS as timbres of choice.....Yes, class AB has faster transient and better controls where class A is almost tube like but at a better textures and resolutions than Korg Tubes timbres.  

The AB has more punches than Class A due to this better controls.  Very addictive with EDM kinda music , especially Daft


----------



## noplsestar

Whitigir said:


> The reasons why I did not invest into BX2 + Even-though it was cheaper
> 
> 1/ It does a lot of LDO conversion to raise and boost the voltage rails from 3.7V into higher .  The C9 runs straight from 8.8V rails directly
> 
> ...


But it is smaller 😜
Jokes aside, I get it. Though, specifications aside, the Romi Audio amp seems to deliver a more transparent signal, more true to the source, which might be a good thing, or might not, depending on the source/chain (i.e. cable) as well as of course the headphone itself. Alas Twister only has the BX-2, the older version of the BX-2+, but it’s better than nothing I guess


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 6, 2021)

noplsestar said:


> But it is smaller 😜
> Jokes aside, I get it. Though, specifications aside, the Romi Audio amp seems to deliver a more transparent signal, more true to the source, which might be a good thing, or might not, depending on the source/chain (i.e. cable) as well as of course the headphone itself. Alas Twister only has the BX-2, the older version of the BX-2+, but it’s better than nothing I guess


Should be an excellent choice for affordability while cutting off the timbres and classes of amp as an options.  But then again, if you want everything the C9 offers, you may want to 4x the price of the BX2+ .  Now that would also put the BX2 arguably into flagship design isn’t it ? Whether they can or not doing it is another matter.

Not sure if being more transparent is a better thing than having a fuller body and textures.  In my opinions and experiences, having compromises of the body density will yield a better airiness and transparency....but do I want my Organic guitar to sound like an Electric guitar ? Definitely Not

The one thing with KORG on C9 is that it takes at least 20 minutes to start to sound more refined.  This is the thing most of the sophisticated tubes amps do inherit though.


----------



## Deffy

This is gorgeous! Wish I could afford it right now but definitely something to save towards to 😁 Cayin makes beautiful stuff, top of the line and esthetically Pleasing!


----------



## Whitigir

Deffy said:


> This is gorgeous! Wish I could afford it right now but definitely something to save towards to 😁 Cayin makes beautiful stuff, top of the line and esthetically Pleasing!


Talk about aesthetically pleasing.  The design is flawless, symmetrical everywhere....even the perfections of weight distributions from side to side and front to back with batteries installed.  I would think that this weight distributions is a super car in design


----------



## Deffy

Whitigir said:


> Talk about aesthetically pleasing.  The design is flawless, symmetrical everywhere....even the perfections of weight distributions from side to side and front to back with batteries installed.  I would think that this weight distributions is a super car in design



And as far as I can tell by the way you described it in your posts it performs like one as well 😁 It seems very much that this is the item I should get and never want for anything else 😄


----------



## aaf evo

Okay so I have a stupid question. If I already have an ibasso dx220 max and 300, what benefit for my iems do I get for adding a Cayin C9 to the equation? I’m new to amps.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 6, 2021)

aaf evo said:


> Okay so I have a stupid question. If I already have an ibasso dx220 max and 300, what benefit for my iems do I get for adding a Cayin C9 to the equation? I’m new to amps.


From my experiences, my Z1R and EX1K have better soundstage, textures, dynamic and most importantly, the blackness of the back ground....from the stack of C9+Max

Additionally you have different timbres and amp classes to choose from , and the differences is obvious between them


----------



## aaf evo

Whitigir said:


> From my experiences, my Z1R and EX1K have better soundstage, textures, dynamic and most importantly, the blackness of the back ground....from the stack of C9+Max



Man, I can’t imagine a better stage than the Max. The  Traillii Max combo is already stunning as is.


----------



## Whitigir

aaf evo said:


> Man, I can’t imagine a better stage than the Max. The  Traillii Max combo is already stunning as is.


Oh, also the imaging and arrangement of positioning are improved


----------



## aaf evo

I’m going to see if musicteck has a demo.


----------



## bluestorm1992

aaf evo said:


> I’m going to see if musicteck has a demo.


I don’t think so right now, but yes please contact them.

Andrew told me that this batch is almost sold out. The next batch would not be available until late March.


----------



## Whitigir

aaf evo said:


> I’m going to see if musicteck has a demo.


Highly recommended MusicTeck and a Demo for sure.  Do it as soon as possible as there are stocks....it will be another 4-5 weeks for the next batch LOL!!!


----------



## aaf evo (Feb 6, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> I don’t think so right now, but yes please contact them.
> 
> Andrew told me that this batch is almost sold out. The next batch would not be available until late March.





Whitigir said:


> Highly recommended MusicTeck and a Demo for sure.  Do it as soon as possible as there are stocks....it will be another 4-5 weeks for the next batch LOL!!!



already got an email, amazing CS as always. They’re sold out of their first batch and they don’t have a demo.

edit: musicteck still has some left, I misunderstood.


----------



## bluestorm1992

aaf evo said:


> Okay so I have a stupid question. If I already have an ibasso dx220 max and 300, what benefit for my iems do I get for adding a Cayin C9 to the equation? I’m new to amps.


I don’t have either iBasso DAPs, but J have had LPGT so probably can share some related experience as well.

My simple motivation is that I want to experience what tube devices are like. I was originally thinking about WA8, but now the C9 seems to be a much better option for the money ($1500-2000). Also, I want something that is kind of portable and can drive my Diana V2; I am hopeful that C9 can achieve this.


----------



## Whitigir

aaf evo said:


> already got an email, amazing CS as always. They’re sold out of their first batch and they don’t have a demo.


That is to say how well the product is being received by the customers !!!! Quick!!! Join me!!! Head first


----------



## aaf evo

Whitigir said:


> That is to say how well the product is being received by the customers !!!! Quick!!! Join me!!! Head first



edited my original post, musicteck has stock. It’s just that Cayin sold out of their first production batch so they didn’t send a demo unit. I may buy one to see what it’s about.


----------



## eskamobob1

Andykong said:


> Since Twister6 has raised an interested topic regarding volume would have been much lower if run it off the BAL output (or maybe high gain will also cause similar effect), I'll take this opportunity to explain the volume and gain control of C9 in detail. This is one of the critical designs that facilitate C9 to work well with both IEMs and headphones and the implementation is way more complicated than we anticipated in the very beginning.
> 
> *Gain Control, Volume Control and Input Sensitivity*
> 
> ...



I just want you to know that this is the single coolest interaction I have _ever_ seen a company have with this community. Not only are you transparent with the functions and limitations of the device, but you make it extremely clear why you have made the decisions you did while educating on control schema. Really, really amazing post.


----------



## noplsestar

Whitigir said:


> Should be an excellent choice for affordability while cutting off the timbres and classes of amp as an options.  But then again, if you want everything the C9 offers, you may want to 4x the price of the BX2+ .  Now that would also put the BX2 arguably into flagship design isn’t it ? Whether they can or not doing it is another matter.
> 
> Not sure if being more transparent is a better thing than having a fuller body and textures.  In my opinions and experiences, having compromises of the body density will yield a better airiness and transparency....but do I want my Organic guitar to sound like an Electric guitar ? Definitely Not
> 
> The one thing with KORG on C9 is that it takes at least 20 minutes to start to sound more refined.  This is the thing most of the sophisticated tubes amps do inherit though.


Well I wouldn’t say that true transparency is something like you described. In fact I could also flip the coin to the other side and state that I wouldn’t want my electric guitar to sound like an organic guitar (because of the added warmth) 😜
But we both know this is all theoretic blabla. What matters is that the music we hear moves us. And it seems that the C9 does exactly that for you. That’s what’s important. Have fun listening to your new toy and keep us updated 👍


----------



## normie610

aaf evo said:


> Okay so I have a stupid question. If I already have an ibasso dx220 max and 300, what benefit for my iems do I get for adding a Cayin C9 to the equation? I’m new to amps.



With an excellent amp, you’ll have more expansive soundstage and headroom. Layering, imaging and instrument separation will also be improved.


----------



## normie610

noplsestar said:


> Well I wouldn’t say that true transparency is something like you described. In fact I could also flip the coin to the other side and state that I wouldn’t want my electric guitar to sound like an organic guitar (because of the added warmth) 😜
> But we both know this is all theoretic blabla. What matters is that the music we hear moves us. And it seems that the C9 does exactly that for you. That’s what’s important. Have fun listening to your new toy and keep us updated 👍



True, transparency doesn’t necessarily mean “thinner” or ”leaner”. It just doesn’t add any coloring to the sound of the source.


----------



## noplsestar (Feb 6, 2021)

normie610 said:


> True, transparency doesn’t necessarily mean “thinner” or ”leaner”. It just doesn’t add any coloring to the sound of the source.


Exactly! ... but of course that isn’t sounding „good“ for everyone. And rightly so. We all have different tastes and ears.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 6, 2021)

normie610 said:


> True, transparency doesn’t necessarily mean “thinner” or ”leaner”. It just doesn’t add any coloring to the sound of the source.


That is the right way to put transparency for an amp, but you see ? My post was regarding directly to @twister6 comparison between the BX2 and the C9.  The C9 was especially into the fuller body and textures.  That was why I posted the above....I would rather pick Fuller body and warmer rather than Colder and thinner and that is my preferences

Most of the time, equipments compromises body density to get that airiness and transparency.  We all know that there is no such thing as “perfection”.  So there will be no perfect transparency either.

Staying true to the source ? Now that is an interesting topic.

_Amplifications in essential is a conversion or modification_, and whenever there is a conversion happening, then that original signal is no longer original.  Now, you can color it, tune it, to get your desired result, but there is no perfect amplifications for the most true to the original signals.

I will always want to try to avoid “conversions” as much as possible, and that is another reason why I chose C9 for the stack, at least it is running directly from 8.8V positive rail and 8.8V negative rail with Ground references.  The BX2 + is *doing multiple boosts* to get it from 3.7V battery into 8.8V or higher.

We can debate whatever ways the C9 sound signature is, but the fact remains, technically speaking, *the less conversions is the better.*

Now comes preferences, *personal preferences will always be a thing and is the king of this hobby*

Listening to C9 in Solid State and Class AB, the C9 carrying the typical Cayin house sound that is similar to the N8 for sure.  This is why I paired up the C9 with the Max as a source with Max having that Neutral and colder signature already.  _This is where the beauty lie for being a dedicated Amp, once you understand your desires and the amp voicing, *you can pair up and match up whatever you want to get the results*....but you can not change how the Amp is running from the power supply that easy _


----------



## normie610

Whitigir said:


> _*you can pair up and match up whatever you want to get the results*_



Exactly. If I want to add more color or weight to my source, I’ll pair an amp that will bring exactly that.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 6, 2021)

normie610 said:


> Exactly. If I want to add more color or weight to my source, I’ll pair an amp that will bring exactly that.


Agreed, and in my case, I carefully chose the C9 due to it technicality and design as mentioned.  Then I will choose my source carefully later on.

I have found instances where when I use IER-Z1R, I flip into Class AB and SS, where HD800S will have Class A and Korg tubes, and most of the time I stay in these modes due to my genres collections.  But having the ability to swap around and matching my desires is something right at this moment only C9 can do 

I am sure I will be upgrading my DAPs more often than Amplifier


----------



## normie610

Whitigir said:


> Agreed, and in my case, I carefully chose the C9 due to it technicality and design as mentioned.  Then I will choose my source carefully later on.
> 
> I am sure I will be upgrading my DAPs more often than Amplifier



I can imagine C9 is the perfect match for Max. You must be having a blast with HD800S!


----------



## Whitigir

normie610 said:


> I can imagine C9 is the perfect match for Max. You must be having a blast with HD800S!


Oh I am loving it! I was never into any stack as I have large speakers, desktop solutions, but as life goes on, I found myself more on the move.  So I chose to stick with Hd800S , the regular at the office and the anniversary at home.  Then I either stay portable or desktop.  I was torn between buying the C9 or not.  Would it be worth it ?  I was especially torn when Andy was tossing around those “says”, that hit me really hard.  But I had high hope for the C9, and stayed the course.  I am very happy to stack it up at the moment.

I still can’t get over how good the volume control is on the C9 , and I should be more excited over the Korg tubes, but I am rather more fascinated by the volume control lol!  It allows me to listen to earbuds like I never did previously, and it does elevate the performances.


----------



## normie610

Whitigir said:


> Oh I am loving it! I was never into any stack as I have large speakers, desktop solutions, but as life goes on, I found myself more on the move.  So I chose to stick with Hd800S , the regular at the office and the anniversary at home.  Then I either stay portable or desktop.  I was torn between buying the C9 or not.  Would it be worth it ?  I was especially torn when Andy was tossing around those “says”, that hit me really hard.  But I had high hope for the C9, and stayed the course.  I am very happy to stack it up at the moment.
> 
> I still can’t get over how good the volume control is on the C9 , and I should be more excited over the Korg tubes, but I am rather more fascinated by the volume control lol!  It allows me to listen to earbuds like I never did previously, and it does elevate the performances.



How’s the stack compared to your desktop setup?

On the volume, I think Andy mentioned it uses the MUSES72320, which is the same one found in my Burson Soloist 3XP. Check out the attached chart from Burson’s website. It matches your experience with IEMs (the ”low” bar chart shows an IEM image)


----------



## eskamobob1

normie610 said:


> How’s the stack compared to your desktop setup?
> 
> On the volume, I think Andy mentioned it uses the MUSES72320, which is the same one found in my Burson Soloist 3XP. Check out the attached chart from Burson’s website. It matches your experience with IEMs (the ”low” bar chart shows an IEM image)



What even is the last headphone in that pic?


----------



## normie610

eskamobob1 said:


> What even is the last headphone in that pic?



No idea, I guess it’s just an illustration to show the hardest to drive headphones.


----------



## eskamobob1

normie610 said:


> No idea, I guess it’s just an illustration to show the hardest to drive headphones.



Haha. fair ehough! I was kinda suprised when I didnt even have a guess for it!




Whitigir said:


> I still can’t get over how good the volume control is on the C9 , and I should be more excited over the Korg tubes, but I am rather more fascinated by the volume control lol! It allows me to listen to earbuds like I never did previously, and it does elevate the performances.




I gotta be honest man. Your raving over the super fine volume control may sell this thing to me alone. Impercise volume control (and not being able to get quiet enough without channel imbalance without cans sounding super flat) has been an issue on every portable I have tried to this point


----------



## jonstatt (Feb 6, 2021)

I noticed a slight imperfection in my c9 at least. When outputting 6v balanced from either the sp2000 or n8 and listening with sensitive IEMs on low or high gain, there is slight sound leakage into the left channel when the volume is at zero. It doesn't seem to be volume pot related but a leakage on ground. Of course its harmless because its masked as soon as you turn the volume up but a quirk nevertheless

Listening to Erlkoenig this evening and blown away by how "live" saxophones sound! I swear it was in the room with me.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 6, 2021)

Doing some comparison to my desktop now as requested .  The amp is Mini Dynalo run


Listening to HD800S-Anniversary, the depth and imagining on the Desktop is obviously better, dynamic punches are also taken up a notch.  How much more ? About %10. 

Is the C9 worth stacking on the go ? Yes!!! Definitely.  I will trade this %10 for portability anytime.  If you wonder this Mini Dynalo.  This is a DIY version and miniature version of Mini GSX


----------



## normie610

Whitigir said:


> Doing some comparison to my desktop now as requested .  The amp is Mini Dynalo run
> 
> 
> Listening to HD800S-Anniversary, the depth and imagining on the Desktop is obviously better, dynamic punches are also taken up a notch.  How much more ? About %10.
> Is the C9 worth stacking on the go ? Yes!!! Definitely



Yep, 10% difference is enough for the stack to be worth it  excellent!!


----------



## bluestorm1992

In my case, adding tube to my collection has always been one of my goals. C9 being portable and having multiple sound signatures are really what makes it stand out to me.


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> In my case, adding tube to my collection has always been one of my goals. C9 being portable and having multiple sound signatures are really what makes it stand out to me.


Same here! I never lacked Tubes goodness, but I couldn’t deal with the funkiness of the classic tubes anymore.  I rather have Korg tubes as it is very reliable , and since the C9 has both, it is definitely one of the reason


----------



## Whitigir

My unboxing video


----------



## TheNameIsGerald

What store in the EU has the C9 in stock? (By now the Chinese New Year break is upon us, so if it's not already in stock it would take quite some time to arrive.)


----------



## Andykong (Feb 7, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> That is the right way to put transparency for an amp, but you see ? My post was regarding directly to @twister6 comparison between the BX2 and the C9.  The C9 was especially into the fuller body and textures.  That was why I posted the above....I would rather pick Fuller body and warmer rather than Colder and thinner and that is my preferences
> 
> Most of the time, equipments compromises body density to get that airiness and transparency.  We all know that there is no such thing as “perfection”.  So there will be no perfect transparency either.
> 
> ...



I have a slightly different view on the topic of transparency, personally.

To start with, there can be audio attributes that are not obvious in DAC line out stage but more likely to develop at amplification stage.  For example, texture.

Let's assume the sound system is composed of four modules: Transport, DAC, Preamp, and Power amplifier.  In my experience, I seldom audition a Transport, DAC or CD player and said "the texture is good", but I have audition Preamp, power amp or integrated amplifier and said "the texture is good".  Maybe "texture" is one of the thing that the information is there in the file or CD, but it won't develop a later stage of audio signal processing.  Therefore if you heard a DAC feeding to two different amplifiers, Amp1 offers excellent texture but Amp2 didn't, my logical thinking is Amp 1 can retrieve the hidden signal and "amplifier" it correctly so that it become obvious in the playback.  Alternatively, you can think that Amp1 is colored, it added texture to the playback that you can't find in Amp2.    

Since Whitigir was referring to an impression from @twister6, so I'll keep him in the loop of the discussion as well.

In addition, we can check out a very interesting observation from Stereophile audio glossary, transparency is described as:

A quality of sound reproduction that gives the impression of listening _through_ the system to the original sounds, rather than to a pair of loudspeakers.
Freedom from veiling, texturing, or any other quality which tends to obscure the signal. A quality of crystalline clarity.
So transparency is about an audio experience with reality instead of hearing it from two distinctive point source, or remove obstacles so that you can discover more.  It is not necessarily keeping everything upstream unchanged.  In fact, if we learn from graphical or video processing, there are "post-processing" that can ENHANCE the clarity of a picture (or video).  Enhance is not necessarily creating something from nothing. When you hear something that is not "there" originally, it can be coloring, but it can also be an enhanced effect through unveil or unmask something.

Recently I have attended a Sony VPL-VW790ES projector presentation and the heart of that was the introduction of their new DSP Engine "X1 for Projector" Processor that offers new features such as Super Resolution Reality Creation and  Dynamic HDR Enhancer.  Apparently videophiles accepts these "enhancing" technologies, but audiophiles will classify these enhancers as color or "conversion" as Whitigir has described.


----------



## Whitigir

Andykong said:


> I have a slightly different view on the topic of transparency, personally.
> 
> To start with, there can be audio attributes that are not obvious in DAC line out stage but more likely to develop at amplification stage.  For example, texture.
> 
> ...


Thanks Andy, and I totally agree.  That is why I always jump in, head first, when I hear “better textures and fuller body” .


----------



## jonstatt

I have been trying different sources and I found that with an SP2000 in line out mode, it causes distortion with certain tracks . I have to come out of line out and turn the volume manually.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 7, 2021)

jonstatt said:


> I have been trying different sources and I found that with an SP2000 in line out mode, it causes distortion with certain tracks . I have to come out of line out and turn the volume manually.


Could this be due to the interconnect? I know that for AK DAPs, you may need an adapter to connect the 4.4 with the  3.5 to use its ground; otherwise, you get noise.

Edit: add a pic of such an adapter.


----------



## jonstatt

bluestorm1992 said:


> Could this be due to the interconnect? I know that for AK DAPs, you may need an adapter to connect the 4.4 with the  3.5 to use its ground; otherwise, you get noise.
> 
> Edit: add a pic of such an adapter.



Sorry I should have said, I do have the DD Hifi adapter that taps both outputs


----------



## bluestorm1992

jonstatt said:


> Sorry I should have said, I do have the DD Hifi adapter that taps both outputs


Have you tried both 3.5 and 4.4 as LO, or perhaps just the 3.5 without the adapter. Maybe this will help.


----------



## noplsestar

bluestorm1992 said:


> Could this be due to the interconnect? I know that for AK DAPs, you may need an adapter to connect the 4.4 with the  3.5 to use its ground; otherwise, you get noise.
> 
> Edit: add a pic of such an adapter.


Maybe also because the SP2k doesn’t have a true line-out but just a „line-out mode“:
https://forum.headphones.com/t/aste...-digital-audio-player-official-thread/4016/16


----------



## bluestorm1992

noplsestar said:


> Maybe also because the SP2k doesn’t have a true line-out but just a „line-out mode“:
> https://forum.headphones.com/t/aste...-digital-audio-player-official-thread/4016/16


With this, I am thinking maybe to try the SP200 in its regular phone-out, and use C9’s pre-in. Andy mentioned that this should generate interesting results as well.

However, do be careful when you want to activate the pre-in mode. It will set the volume of C9 to the highest.


----------



## jonstatt (Feb 7, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> Have you tried both 3.5 and 4.4 as LO, or perhaps just the 3.5 without the adapter. Maybe this will help.



I have tried the 2.5mm on its own and it still distorts. Line out says 6V on the SP2000. I need to see if the C9 is meant to handle that

The N8 4.4 line out doesn't distort it seems.


----------



## jmills8

jonstatt said:


> I have tried the 2.5mm on its own and it still distorts. Line out says 6V on the SP2000. I need to see if the C9 is meant to handle that
> 
> The N8 4.4 line out doesn't distort it seems.


Cause the N8 is better.


----------



## LabelH

jonstatt said:


> I have been trying different sources and I found that with an SP2000 in line out mode, it causes distortion with certain tracks . I have to come out of line out and turn the volume manually.



Not sure if this the correct way, I run PRE mode without activating line out mode in AK SP2000, to my ears it sound clearer than using line-out mode


----------



## bluestorm1992

LabelH said:


> Not sure if this the correct way, I run PRE mode without activating line out mode in AK SP2000, to my ears it sound clearer than using line-out mode


I think this is the intended way to use the PRE mode.


----------



## jonstatt

LabelH said:


> Not sure if this the correct way, I run PRE mode without activating line out mode in AK SP2000, to my ears it sound clearer than using line-out mode



If you can, could you try in sp2k line out mode (make sure to switch back the c9) and play

Lianne la havas,  Good Goodbye

The whole album is brickwalled which is adding to the problems here but this track obviously distorts at several points during the track


----------



## Nostoi

Anyone able to test the C9 on a pair of ZMF Veritie Closed? I'd like to see if they can drive them with conviction (not expecting it to be the case but happy to hear otherwise).


----------



## Andykong (Feb 7, 2021)

jonstatt said:


> I have been trying different sources and I found that with an SP2000 in line out mode, it causes distortion with certain tracks . I have to come out of line out and turn the volume manually.



Can you describe your connection and setting?

SP2000 in Balanced line out, at 6V
2.5mm to 4.4mm adapter , 4.4mm to 4.4mm interconnect from SP2000 to C9
C9 set to line input mode, low gain?

If you look at Input Sensitivity in C9 specification, C9 can accept 6V line in at low gain.


----------



## Whitigir

Andykong said:


> Can you describe your connection and setting?
> SP2000 in Balanced line out, at 6V
> 2.5mm to 4.4mm adapter , 4.4mm to 4.4mm interconnect from SP2000 to C9
> C9 set to line input mode, low gain?


Oh now I need to test the Pre-In Mode! As the Max has dedicated Amp and it own power supply!  The C9 has too many features !! Lol


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 7, 2021)

*Damn it!!! I am such a noob but please don’t be like me*.  I was turning down the Max volume very low into 9 o’clock and into C9.

I flipped the Pre In and press the Pre on the side, it had such low volume and so I started cranking.

Then saw the Led next to the Pre button on the side.  I figured to hold it in for a few seconds and voila it turned on....

*I ended up blasting my ears for 2 seconds* before I quickly tapped the pause on Max.

I found a couple instances.

1/ Flip input to pre

2/ Hold down your Pre button on the side until Led light up

3/ *The volume on C9 is disabled and it is using the player volume and it is at MAXIMUM amping power *

*I don’t have volume leaks issues*, except I do have that low volume channel imbalances that comes from Max volume itself.


----------



## xand

Whitigir said:


> *I ended up blasting my ears for 2 seconds*



Hope you're OK!


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 7, 2021)

xand said:


> Hope you're OK!


Thanks, I am ok  as at least I was somewhat unconsciously kept everything down.  I was just not prepared for the instance where C9 is maximum power and the DAP is the one to control the volume.


----------



## jonstatt

Andykong said:


> Can you describe your connection and setting?
> 
> SP2000 in Balanced line out, at 6V
> 2.5mm to 4.4mm adapter , 4.4mm to 4.4mm interconnect from SP2000 to C9
> ...



Ah. I can't remember if I was in low gain. I will check.

I was trying different combinations to see what was influencing the sound leakage in the left channel. Then suddenly noticed the distortion too.

Thanks for the suggestion. I will report back.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 7, 2021)

So using the C9 under the Pre In mode, I am using the whole Max as a DAC and Preamplifier with the C9 acting as a Power-Amplifier.

This is basically my Max sound signatures Mixed up and amplified with C9 signatures together

This is good if you have *high end flagship DAP that you love the sound signatures but want to amplify it correctly* without double amping!!

When you see this LED ON, Please turn down your DAP volume to 0
It won’t be on until you hold it in for 5 seconds or so 
*You can go deaf if you don’t turn down your DAP volume *


----------



## eskamobob1

Nostoi said:


> Anyone able to test the C9 on a pair of ZMF Veritie Closed? I'd like to see if they can drive them with conviction (not expecting it to be the case but happy to hear otherwise).



Also currious about them driving arya. If the c9 can run arya and VC at anything even aproaching desktop levels, tbh, I think its kind of a no brain purchase for me.


----------



## eskamobob1

Whitigir said:


> So using the C9 under the Pre In mode, I am using the whole Max as a DAC and Preamplifier with the C9 acting as a Power-Amplifier.
> 
> This is basically my Max sound signatures Mixed up and amplified with C9 signatures together
> 
> ...



Wait. This confuses me. How are you not double Amping in this scenario?


----------



## bluestorm1992

eskamobob1 said:


> Also currious about them driving arya. If the c9 can run arya and VC at anything even aproaching desktop levels, tbh, I think its kind of a no brain purchase for me.


Do you think Diana V2 is at the same level of power requirement as these two? I should be able to test V2’s performance and compare it with the recommended desktop amp very soon.


----------



## eskamobob1

bluestorm1992 said:


> Do you think Diana V2 is at the same level of power requirement as these two? I should be able to test V2’s performance and compare it with the recommended desktop amp very soon.



Afaik. Diana V2 is tougher to run than arya (and they are powered in similar ways), but it won't work for the VC test due to very different driver power dynamics

Edit: when you do it, mind doing it with your desktop dac? Just for fewest variable possible


----------



## bluestorm1992

eskamobob1 said:


> Afaik. Diana V2 is tougher to run than arya (and they are powered in similar ways), but it won't work for the VC test due to very different driver power dynamics
> 
> Edit: when you do it, mind doing it with your desktop dac? Just for fewest variable possible


Sure. I happen to have an interconnect the can pair my Burson DAC with the C9.


----------



## eskamobob1

bluestorm1992 said:


> Sure. I happen to have an interconnect the can pair my Burson DAC with the C9.


Tyvm! I look forward to your review!


----------



## bluestorm1992

eskamobob1 said:


> Wait. This confuses me. How are you not double Amping in this scenario?


I think he is referring to that the “second amp” that is performed by C9 is not adding any coloring/extra to the original sound that is amped by the MAX; C9 just makes it louder and more powerful.


----------



## LabelH

bluestorm1992 said:


> I think this is the intended way to use the PRE mode.



Sorry, I was  misunderstood the context. Ignore what i said previously. 



jonstatt said:


> If you can, could you try in sp2k line out mode (make sure to switch back the c9) and play
> 
> Lianne la havas,  Good Goodbye
> 
> The whole album is brickwalled which is adding to the problems here but this track obviously distorts at several points during the track



Settings:
SE > BAL (Line Out 1.05V/3V), Low Gain, timbre SS + Class A and Spotify

Disclaimer: i don't have golden ears, take my finding as from noob 

- LO 1.05V/3V, sound brickwalled (thanks I learn something new), vocal seems louder than usual, there is distortion? at some point around 2:59-3:04
- Without LO, vocal loudness more balance than LO, distortion? at 2:59-3:04, less noticeable

It's already midnight here, I will try again with song that i familiar in the next morning


----------



## LabelH

Whitigir said:


> So using the C9 under the Pre In mode, I am using the whole Max as a DAC and Preamplifier with the C9 acting as a Power-Amplifier.
> 
> This is basically my Max sound signatures Mixed up and amplified with C9 signatures together
> 
> ...



The case reminds me of mouse weight reduction mod


----------



## jonstatt

jonstatt said:


> Ah. I can't remember if I was in low gain. I will check.
> 
> I was trying different combinations to see what was influencing the sound leakage in the left channel. Then suddenly noticed the distortion too.
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion. I will report back.



@Andykong you were right! I had it on high gain and it was distorting due to overload. Thank you.


----------



## jonstatt

LabelH said:


> Sorry, I was  misunderstood the context. Ignore what i said previously.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks for doing the experiment so late! I found I had high gain which was definitely overloading. Even on low gain though the N8 line out sounds better than SP2K. I am not so impressed here. Will try pre out mode without killing my ears like @Whitigir !!!


----------



## denis1976 (Feb 7, 2021)

jonstatt said:


> I have been trying different sources and I found that with an SP2000 in line out mode, it causes distortion with certain tracks . I have to come out of line out and turn the volume manually.


You have to check it out, because I have my sp2000 connected to my hi-fi home system has a source and with 3volts and never had any distortion, something is wrong...never tried 6volts.... My amp is not balanced


----------



## denis1976

eskamobob1 said:


> Wait. This confuses me. How are you not double Amping in this scenario?


Maybe the dx220Max has variable line out


----------



## eskamobob1 (Feb 7, 2021)

denis1976 said:


> Maybe the dx220Max has variable line out



Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't LO by defenition not variable?

EDIT: again. Please correct me if I'm wrong (sources are kinda new to me), I thought volume control was the whole difference between LO and pre-out (both of which bypass the amp stage and just use an attenuator, correct?)


----------



## Whitigir

eskamobob1 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't LO by defenition not variable?
> 
> EDIT: again. Please correct me if I'm wrong (sources are kinda new to me), I thought volume control was the whole difference between LO and pre-out (both of which bypass the amp stage and just use an attenuator, correct?)


Line Out can be variable if the Volume is digital, which most DAP are.  Many of them disguise themselves by just firmware controlling it to be at max volume instead to keeps the idea of (LO not variable)

Pre-out is as you said, but involves an analog attenuations instead of digital


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 7, 2021)

eskamobob1 said:


> Wait. This confuses me. How are you not double Amping in this scenario?



The C9 has Pre-In feature.  Read it in the first post.  Here is a screen shot.  Look at the top left corner of the C9



denis1976 said:


> Maybe the dx220Max has variable line out


no, max has only variable DAC volume.  Line out is totally by passing the amp, so analog attenuations will not work.  The DAC volume is adjustable


----------



## denis1976

So the volume is not controled by the volume knob but by the digital 0 to 150 dac volume setting?


----------



## Whitigir

denis1976 said:


> So the volume is not controled by the volume knob but by the digital 0 to 150 dac volume setting?


In the Max ? Max is a 2 devices in one, a DAC with it own battery (also has digital attenuations), and an Amp with it own battery and analog attenuations.  You can look at it as a system that consists a DAC and an Amp.  You you can always adjust the DAC volume alone, and then the Amp Volume alone.


----------



## denis1976

I know, I had one


----------



## bluestorm1992

Let me see if I understand the difference between line-in and pre-in correctly.

Line-in of C9: The volume is controlled by C9. The source (DAP) will have a fixed volume, and the AMP section in the DAP is completely bypassed. By doing this, we are mostly experiencing the sound signature of C9 as it is taking up the AMP job.

Pre-in of C9: The volume is controlled by the source (DAP), and both the DAC and AMP sections of the DAP are activated. In this case, C9 is like a power amp that "boosts" the signals that feed into it, without adding extra coloring to it. Hence, we are mostly experiencing the sound signature of the DAP.


----------



## denis1976

I was just thinking that it would be easier if the dac worked directly bypassing 100% the gain stage amp or the pré amp


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 7, 2021)

denis1976 said:


> I was just thinking that it would be easier if the dac worked directly bypassing 100% the gain stage amp or the pré amp


The Max has the gain stage and the Amp 100% Bypassed when using line out.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 7, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> Let me see if I understand the difference between line-in and pre-in correctly.
> 
> Line-in of C9: The volume is controlled by C9. The source (DAP) will have a fixed volume, and the AMP section in the DAP is completely bypassed. By doing this, we are mostly experiencing the sound signature of C9 as it is taking up the AMP job.
> 
> Pre-in of C9: The volume is controlled by the source (DAP), and both the DAC and AMP sections of the DAP are activated. In this case, C9 is like a power amp that "boosts" the signals that feed into it, without adding extra coloring to it. Hence, we are mostly experiencing the sound signature of the DAP.


The point of any Preamplifier is to Amplify a weak signals while influencing the signals with the Preamplifier sound signatures before it can then be amplified by the Power Amplifier and be influenced again by the power amplifier sound signatures.

So, you like your LPGT TI for example, but somehow you wished that you could have some Tube distortions.  Normally you would use
Line out from LPGT to external tube amp ?

What if you also like the tuning and voicing signature of the LPGT TI when it does amplifications from the Headphones out ? Just a touch of Tube signatures to perfection ? You can not do it properly because you will be facing double amplifications.  You will hear distortions, and deformity of soundstage Or imaging? Unless you could somehow treat the Phones out as a Preamplifier signal

The solution to this is to use C9 and tube timbres.  Then flip the switch to Pre-in and enable Preamplifier mode on the side

This is similar to any large speakers.  Normally you will see people set it up so all 3 pieces of : DAC-Preamp-PowerAmp to be synergized in the way they prefer the whole system to be

Of Course each piece of them 3 will carry their very own signatures.

This features was mainly aimed toward those players that has never offered a Line Out like Walkman WM 1Z for example

Now, how does Cayin get it done ? No one knows!  The C9 is the first of it kinds, unless Cayin feel like enlightening us, otherwise these are the use cases

It is also interesting that you can try Cayin N8 with Korg Tube SE as a Preamplifier into a C9 with Tube input stage for a power Amp !! Korg and Korg.  Both the N8 and C9 use Korg tube as Input amp stage as their blocks are showing.  This is the block of N8


----------



## DaYooper

Whitigir said:


> It is also interesting that you can try Cayin N8 with Korg Tube SE as a Preamplifier into a C9 with Tube input stage for a power Amp !! Korg and Korg.


Or...any iBasso with amp9


----------



## eskamobob1

No gunna lie. I still just dont get it. They say pre-in mode just sets volume on the amp to max. How is that any different than just turning the dial up?


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 7, 2021)

eskamobob1 said:


> No gunna lie. I still just dont get it. They say pre-in mode just sets volume on the amp to max. How is that any different than just turning the dial up?


This one *Bypass* the Volume control functions on C9, or set to 0db attenuation 

You can also utilize the volume control on C9 if you so preferred .  Just do not enable Pre button on the side.  It does the same thing, just that now you have 2 volume to control instead of one


----------



## eskamobob1

Whitigir said:


> This one *Bypass* the Volume control functions on C9, or set to 0db attenuation
> 
> You can also utilize the volume control on C9 if you so preferred .  Just do not enable Pre button on the side.  It does the same thing, just that now you have 2 volume to control instead of one



I just don't get why that is desirable over having 2 vol control


----------



## Whitigir

oh well, while the Pre-In and the Pre feature is actually exciting to have.  I was having a lot of fun to toy around, but I would gladly be doing real “line out” into C9 any given time.  There is a much more defined soundstage and imaging compared to the Pre-in features from phones out.  Beside, the Line Out has a much more blacker back-ground.  This alone is a winner.  I am glad to have Max as a source for the C9


----------



## newworld666

Unfortunately I won't buy this amp as I intended to use it with an HEDDphone .. 
I could temporarily find a way with the Centrance M8V2. It includes a DAC, so a different concept, but it's an intermediate way between moderate power amps (less than 2x1.4W) like this C9, the BX2/Less plus or the new iFi Diablo and the best I could get with a 2x6W THX887 amp.

But ! As I am a regular IER-Z1R user, I am a bit surprised that the C9 could be an improvement compared to the WM1A, as I couldn't catch till now any significant improvements with any external amps I used (out of any of my daps R6pro, M11, Kann Alpha, WM1A, Win10 +SMSL M500). 

With the HEDDphone, for sure, it's very easy to catch amazing improvements in low and ultra low frequencies as it becomes "clear" in this range with impressive fast impacts with or without passing through a 2x6W THX amp, though measurements (with a non pro system like miniDSP ears) doesn't show any noticeable difference in response curves (nearly flat from 20hz to 20kzh), I would say clearly the amp makes a difference to move the AMT drivers, but for IER-Z1R ??? .

If there is an improvement with such IEM, in which area can it be eared ? I think frequency response won't change at all, so ne need to measure, but where should I get some improvements that a simple 2x6W THX887 doesn't offer me compared to my WM1A ? Are my 60yo ears already out of the race ?


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 8, 2021)

newworld666 said:


> Unfortunately I won't buy this amp as I intended to use it with an HEDDphone ..
> I could temporarily find a way with the Centrance M8V2. It includes a DAC, so a different concept, but it's an intermediate way between moderate power amps (less than 2x1.4W) like this C9, the BX2/Less plus or the new iFi Diablo and the best I could get with a 2x6W THX887 amp.
> 
> But ! As I am a regular IER-Z1R user, I am a bit surprised that the C9 could be an improvement compared to the WM1A, as I couldn't catch till now any significant improvements with any external amps I used (out of any of my daps R6pro, M11, Kann Alpha, WM1A, Win10 +SMSL M500).
> ...


I am not much a stacking person , but this is good ! Dynamic, imaging, resolutions are all a notch up.


----------



## twister6

newworld666 said:


> Unfortunately I won't buy this amp as I intended to use it with an HEDDphone ..
> I could temporarily find a way with the Centrance M8V2. It includes a DAC, so a different concept, but it's an intermediate way between moderate power amps (less than 2x1.4W) like this C9, the BX2/Less plus or the new iFi Diablo and the best I could get with a 2x6W THX887 amp.
> 
> But ! As I am a regular IER-Z1R user, I am a bit surprised that the C9 could be an improvement compared to the WM1A, as I couldn't catch till now any significant improvements with any external amps I used (out of any of my daps R6pro, M11, Kann Alpha, WM1A, Win10 +SMSL M500).
> ...



I only tested IER-Z1R briefly 3 yrs ago at CanJam NYC, and WM1Z didn't have sufficient power to drive it properly, treble was quite splashy.  Z1R is a lower sensitivity IEM that scales up with more power.  WM1A/Z DAPs are rated at only *30mW* (@32ohm, 3.5mm SE) and *125mW* (@32ohm, 4.4mm BAL).  Just to put it in a perspective of comparison, C9 offers *700mW* (@32ohm, 3.5mm SE) and *2600mW* (@32ohm, 4.4mm BAL).  Of course, there is a lot more than just power, you are also dealing with tonality of ss vs tube, class A vs class AB, etc.  Thus, I'm curious why you are surprised that C9 would drive Z1R better than WM1A?


----------



## lumdicks

twister6 said:


> I only tested IER-Z1R briefly 3 yrs ago at CanJam NYC, and WM1Z didn't have sufficient power to drive it properly, treble was quite splashy.  Z1R is a lower sensitivity IEM that scales up with more power.  WM1A/Z DAPs are rated at only *30mW* (@32ohm, 3.5mm SE) and *125mW* (@32ohm, 4.4mm BAL).  Just to put it in a perspective of comparison, C9 offers *700mW* (@32ohm, 3.5mm SE) and *2600mW* (@32ohm, 4.4mm BAL).  Of course, there is a lot more than just power, you are also dealing with tonality of ss vs tube, class A vs class AB, etc.  Thus, I'm curious why you are surprised that C9 would drive Z1R better than WM1A?


I have WM1A, C9 and Z1R, and I agree every words above.


----------



## Whitigir

lumdicks said:


> I have WM1A, C9 and Z1R, and I agree every words above.


Substantial improvements with C9, not just little


----------



## lumdicks

Whitigir said:


> Substantial improvements with C9, not just little


Overall control, imaging, dynamics and high low extension are just in different league with any standalone DAP.


----------



## Andykong (Feb 8, 2021)

​*Dual input mode: LINE input vs PRE-amp input *

The Dual input mode in C9 is designed to widen the choice of front-end, not to serve as an alternative sound signature for the same DAP, but we are not surprised that this will also work out. When something is done right, it will enable a lot of possibilities.

When I wrote the C9 introduction, the first thing I put down was a brief summary of Cayin’s history: “We have developed over 400 products to date, ranging from CD players to speakers, all of which provide the same high-quality benchmark, but our amplifiers have been particularly well-received within the audio community.” We come with a long history in design and manufacturing audio amplifiers before we venture into headphone amplifier, and it’s just natural that when we want to develop a reference grade portable headphone amplifier, we refer to our experience in speaker amplifier design. If you ask an audiophile what is your options when you want to upgrade your amplifier? One of the answers that will come up very often is to upgrade from integrated amplifier to Pre-amp/Power Amp configuration. We know Pre/Power design is superior over integrated amplifier, so why can’t we implement a Pre/Power design in our flagship portable headphone amplifier? We have the expertise and experience, some of our integrated amp has pre-amp output (e.g., HA-1AMK2), and some of our high-power integrated amplifier has a pre-amp input to turn the amplifier into a pure power amplifier, and we decided to take the later route when we design the C9: to provide a PRE-amp input mode (aka. Pure power amp. mode) on top of integrated amplifier approach.


Pre-amp input in CS-150A, our latest high-power tube integrated amplifier​
So what exactly is a pre-amp? The explanation from *Wiki * is very user-friendly so I’ll quote that here for our reference:
_



			A preamplifier (preamp or "pre") is an electronic amplifier that converts a weak electrical signal into an output signal strong enough to be noise-tolerant and strong enough for further processing, or for sending to a power amplifier and a loudspeaker. Without this, the final signal would be noisy or distorted. …… In an audio system, they are typically used to amplify signals from analog sensors to line level. The second amplifier is typically a power amplifier (power amp). The preamplifier provides voltage gain (e.g., from 10 mV to 1 V) but no significant current gain. The power amplifier provides the higher current necessary to drive loudspeakers.
		
Click to expand...

_
While the level of voltage gain varied from brand to brand, and from model to model, but the idea is well-explained. To summarize, line output is a fixed level un-amplified output. In DAP, the common practice is to take the LPF output after DAC as-is, a more delicate implementation will add a line driver or a buffer to make sure the impedance and output level can reach the de facto level (2V single-ended, 4V or 4.4V balanced). A pre-amp output is a variable level output (i.e., volume controlled) with voltage gain. There shouldn’t be any current gain from preamp output. The headphone amplifier circuit in DAP will amplifier the signal at voltage and current, so that we can drive our headphone satisfactory. Most, if not all, headphone amplifier, portable or desktop, is an integrated amplifier for headphone application, so it will combine volume control, voltage gain and current gain in one box.

*PRE-amp vs Line input mode with maximum volume. *

When C9 operates in PRE-amp input mode, it is basically functioning as a power amplifier with volume control disable (set to 0dB attenuation) and all amplification circuit operate in full capacity. Theoretically if you use maximum volume in Line input mode and let your DAP control the volume, the signal processing will be the same as PRE-amp input mode, but my personal impression prefers PRE-amp input mode because I get better amplification control, the sound is tight and focused, and the music is more lively. It’s like a water supply system with 5 water taps installed in different location. Theoretically if I turn all water taps to fully open position, the water supply is in its full capacity, but will that be 100% equivalent to water supply when all water taps are removed? Ultimately, this is up to C9 users to experience the difference between the two input modes if you have an appropriate source that offer comparable Line out and Pre-out (e.g, A02, or line out/Pre out of DACs such as Cayin iDAC-6MK2)

It is important to understand the definition of Line output and Pre-amp output.  There are DAP that offers Line Out "mode" but the signal will go through the headphone amplifier circuit.  There are desktop DAC that offers Pre-amp "mode" but in fact it is only a digital attenuator.  Up to this point, the C9 implementation is very straight forward: you should use line output with C9 Line input mode, and pre-amp output with C9 Pre-amp input mode. The problem is, there isn’t any “portable” preamp source among DAP except A02 unless you want to use C9 as the headphone output of your desktop preamplifier. So what happen is we want to use to make good use of the Dual input mode of C9?

From here on, our discussion will go beyond the original design and product definition of Cayin, so everything is in my personal opinion.  I'll summarize the options for quick reference before I go into details:


Line output from DAP or desktop DAC: use LINE input mode of C9,  this is the default setting to use C9;
Pre-amp output from DAP, DAC and Pre-amplifier: use PRE-amp input mode of C9;  this is an alternative setting to use C9;
Phone output if your DAP don't have line out option: use PRE-amp input mode of C9. It might or might not work, depends on the level of current gain, but worth trying because you don't have other options;
Pseudo Line out or Line out mode: try both line out mode to C9 LINE input and phone out to C9 PRE-amp input;
Variable Line Out: use LINE input mode of C9 with digital volume set to maximum or maintain at a higher level.
Pseudo Pre-amp Output or Pre-amp mode: similar to (4), try both line out to C9 LINE input and Pre-amp mode to C9 PRE-amp input, theoretically, LINE out option is the default C9 setting and it should be superior

*Phone out as Pre-out?

If your DAP don’t have line out option*, that will limited your option to upgrade your system though an outboard headphone amplifier, using phone out as pre-out is probably the best bet. Theoretically, that should be better than turning the volume to maximum and use it as line out because you are operating your DAP at a lower distortion level and SNR. On the other hand, since pre-amp output is by definition voltage gain without current gain from line out, so phone output with smaller current gain will likely perform better than phone output with higher current gain; a phone out with lower output will likely work better then phone out with beefy output. The Sony WM1Z and WM1A probably is one of the best example of this scenario, please refer to Headphonic C9 review (https://headfonics.com/cayin-c9-review/3/) for more detail about this combination.

*Pseudo Line out or Line out mode?*

Now this is a funny terms but this is as close as what I can think of from audiophile point of view. Take A01 and T01 audio motherboard as example, the 3.5mm line out of these two audio motherboards are line level outputs that meet all the description we stated earlier on, but the balanced line out are fixed level output shared with phone out. In other word, when you set the 4.4mm output of these two audio motherboard to line out, the DAP will set a fixed level (4.4V) output from headphone output, this will functionally perform as a line out, but since the audio signal has gone through both voltage gain and current gain in the headphone amplification circuit, I’ll describe it as a pseudo line out in order to differentiate it from the “real” balanced line out of E02 and N8. You can use Pseudo line out with LINE input mode of C9, but in my humble opinion, since the signal has gone through the same headphone amplification circuit as phone out, so you might as well compare the phone out of these DAP to C9 in PRE-amp input mode against pseudo line out to LINE input mode and judge the final performance with our own earphones and headphones.

Some DAPs didn’t specify clearly that whether their line out is un-amped clean line out, or pseudo line out that didn't bypass the headphone amplification circuit, in these cases, you have to test and compare the two input modes of C9 and select your preferred connection. Don’t make any assumptions if you are uncertain, there is no cost to try it out when you have C9, and you should always trust your ear.

*Variable Line Out?*

This is a line output stage with digital volume control in DAC chipset. Electrically this is line out signal as long as there is no voltage gain or current gain after LPF. My personal choice is to set the digital volume to maximum and connect to C9 in Line input mode. This should preserve all the dynamic range of your DAC output and pass it to C9 amplifier with minimum lost. There is one added advantage of have an extra digital volume in the signal path: if you run into a very sensitive IEM and the C9 is overpowered (according to your impression), then you can lower the digital volume to provide more room for C9. I have tried Andromeda with N6ii + A02 line out + C9 in Balanced low gain and it works OK (background is not completely dark) but YMMV.


​
*Pseudo Pre-amp Output or Pre-amp mode*

Some desktop DAC offers Pre-amp "mode" but in fact it is only a digital attenuator that lower the output level of DAC line out, there is no voltage gain in the pre-amp function, only attenuation.  To certain extend this is desktop version of Variable line out in DAP, just a different name to fit into different scenario and user groups.  The original Cayin iDAC-6 is an example of this, and we have included a proper pre-amplifier circuit when we update to iDAC-6 MK2.  From functional point of view, you can use PRE-amp input mode in this scenario, but the result will unlikely superior over Line out from DAC to C9 in Line input mode because the attenuated signal from Pre-amp mode might lower the dynamic range or even resolution of the source signal, especially when you need to turn the volume all the way down to below 50% output level.

It is very important to follow the steps carefully when you switch from Line input mode to Pre-amp input mode, I hereby copy the complete paragraphs from User Guide for your reference.
--------------------
Since C9 is a very powerful headphone amplifier, so we must take appropriate precaution to make sure the PRE-amp input mode will not be activated “accidentally” or before the user has prepared his system properly.

The following 2-steps secure procedure will switch the C9 headphone amplifier form LINE input mode to PRE-amp input mode:

*Turn down the volume control of C9*, set the input MODE switch to PRE
Connect your PRE-amp music source to one of the input connector, we recommend you to *turn down the volume of your source equipment* at this point.
Connect your earphone or headphone to one of the output connector
PRESS and HOLD the Pre-amp Input Activator for 3 seconds.
You’ll hear a click sound when the switching kicks in, and the Pre input indicator will light up
The C9 is now operated in PRE-amp input mode. You can turn up the volume at the pre-amp music source (the volume control of C9 is disabled).
When input and/or output devices is disconnected, or when C9 is restarted, the amplifier will “deactivate” PRE-amp input mode and switch back to LINE input mode automatically despite the setting of input MODE switch, that’s why we remind you to turn down the volume of C9 before you use PRE-amp input mode.
When you change your music source or headphone, you need to activate PRE-amp input mode again by repeating step (4)
*WARNING:*

The PRE-amp input mode is designed to work with audio source device with Pre-amp output, or in technical terms, a variable voltage output with a user-controllable volume. You MUST NOT connect the Line Out of DAP, DAC or whatever source equipment without a Pre-amp output to C9 in PRE-amp input mode.


----------



## Whitigir

@Andykong while you are here, could you tell me more of how the C9 be able to utilize Amplified signals from PhonesOut to be PreAmp signals ? Does it have additional circuitry for that ?


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## Andykong (Feb 8, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> oh well, while the Pre-In and the Pre feature is actually exciting to have.  I was having a lot of fun to toy around, but I would gladly be doing real “line out” into C9 any given time.  There is a much more defined soundstage and imaging compared to the Pre-in features from phones out.  Beside, the Line Out has a much more blacker back-ground.  This alone is a winner.  I am glad to have Max as a source for the C9



If you have other DAPs around, try again, maybe it works differently.

Max is properly not a good source to compare the Line input mode vs phone out to PRE-amp input mode of C9 because the Phone out of Max is relatively more powerful when compare to other DAP.  When the current gain of the headphone amplifier circuit is substantial, it can't "stimulate"  a preamp output.

For the same reason, Cayin N8 phone out is not a good choice if you want ot compare Line out vs phone out to Preamp input.

Looks like my Chinese New Year holiday will start a few days later, as usual.


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## Whitigir

lumdicks said:


> Overall control, imaging, dynamics and high low extension are just in different league with any standalone DAP.


Yes! I can vouch for this, even Max won’t drive IER Z1R as well as C9 and Max stacked up


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## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> @Andykong while you are here, could you tell me more of how the C9 be able to utilize Amplified signals from PhonesOut to be PreAmp signals ? Does it have additional circuitry for that ?



No, there isn't any additional circuitry to facilitate that.  As I mentioned in the Dual input mode explanation, the PRE-amp input mode was designed for phone preamplifier specifically, it just happen to work with "some" phone out.  Some DAP phone out didn't involve a lot of current gain, so these phone out are indeed similar to Pre-amp electrically.


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## Whitigir

Andykong said:


> No, there isn't any additional circuitry to facilitate that.  As I mentioned in the Dual input mode explanation, the PRE-amp input mode was designed for phone preamplifier specifically, it just happen to work with "some" phone out.  Some DAP phone out didn't involve a lot of current gain, so these phone out are indeed similar to Pre-amp electrically.


Oh thanks for the clarification.  I don’t have anything with low output atm.  I tried with M8 and Dx300 and still the same result VS line out.  The Line out has much better soundstage definitions, better instrument locality and blacker background.  Nothing touches Max Line out Atm for C9 in my cases


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## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> Oh thanks for the clarification.  I don’t have anything with low output atm.  I tried with M8 and Dx300 and still the same result VS line out.  The Line out has much better soundstage definitions, better instrument locality and blacker background.  Nothing touches Max Line out Atm for C9 in my cases


Maybe something like a small dongle? I am planning to try the pre mode with my Lotoo S1. Also want to get the L&P W2 dongle to try out as well, which is more powerful than the S1.


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## lumdicks

Whitigir said:


> Oh thanks for the clarification.  I don’t have anything with low output atm.  I tried with M8 and Dx300 and still the same result VS line out.  The Line out has much better soundstage definitions, better instrument locality and blacker background.  Nothing touches Max Line out Atm for C9 in my cases


I have tried the phone out of my Romi modded  1A as Pre in to C9 and the result is not satisfactory. There was occasional noise between tracks and overall tonality is not impressive.


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## Whitigir

lumdicks said:


> I have tried the phone out of my Romi modded  1A as Pre in to C9 and the result is not satisfactory. There was occasional noise between tracks and overall tonality is not impressive.


Thanks for the info.  I think the Pre Feature mostly is not working out as intended.  Using Line out is much more preferable on DAPs that has it


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## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> Thanks for the info.  I think the Pre Feature mostly is not working out as intended.  Using Line out is much more preferable on DAPs that has it


Maybe it will work well with something like the 1Z that has a low-power phone out?


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## twister6 (Feb 8, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> Substantial improvements with C9, not just little



After recent testing, I can also say that N6ii w/E02 + C9 (tubes, Class AB) is an improvement over N8 (tubes, P+) with a wider soundstage, some improvement in micro-dynamics, and more analog tonality.  I have mentioned before about hearing C9 with fuller body and warmer mids; that creates a perception of a more analog textured sound without loosing resolution or retrieval of details.






i used ddhifi adapters for a cleaner picture without iems/headphones/cables since tubes won't engage until you plugin headphones


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## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> Maybe it will work well with something like the 1Z that has a low-power phone out?


Both 1A/Z should be the same for power output


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## Whitigir

twister6 said:


> After recent testing, I can also say that N6ii w/E02 + C9 (tubes, Class AB) is an improvement over N8 (tubes, P+) with a wider soundstage, some improvement in micro-dynamics, and more analog tonality.  I have mentioned before about hearing C9 with fuller body and warmer mids; that creates a perception of a more analog textured sound without loosing resolution or retrieval of details.
> 
> 
> 
> i used ddhifi adapters for a cleaner picture without iems/headphones/cables since tubes won't engage until you plugin headphones


Thanks for the impressions !! C9 is worth every penny IMO.  I am hypnotized by those bluish alien eyes.  I try not to imagine C10 with Dual Korg in and Dual Korg Out 😂


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## VancityDreaming

lumdicks said:


> I have WM1A, C9 and Z1R, and I agree every words above.


How does it sound if you use the wm1a with the c9 as an amp? Im curious


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## immortalsoul

twister6 said:


> After recent testing, I can also say that N6ii w/E02 + C9 (tubes, Class AB) is an improvement over N8 (tubes, P+) with a wider soundstage, some improvement in micro-dynamics, and more analog tonality.  I have mentioned before about hearing C9 with fuller body and warmer mids; that creates a perception of a more analog textured sound without loosing resolution or retrieval of details.
> 
> 
> 
> i used ddhifi adapters for a cleaner picture without iems/headphones/cables since tubes won't engage until you plugin headphones


How about N8 +C9 compared with E02 +C9? Thank you!


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## DaYooper

I think the post you quote answers that.


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## bluestorm1992

DaYooper said:


> I think the post you quote answers that.


I think twister is using N8 alone, while @immortalsoul is curious about N8+C9.


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## immortalsoul

bluestorm1992 said:


> I think twister is using N8 alone, while @immortalsoul is curious about N8+C9.


That is correct


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## DaYooper

Oh


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## Whitigir

Andykong said:


> *a more delicate implementation will add a line driver or a buffer to make sure the impedance and output level can reach the de facto level (2V single-ended, 4V or 4.4V balanced). *​


Thanks Andy, and that is why the MAX line out sound so good with the C9.

I meant I test line out from all DAPs, but somehow the MAX really stands out, and it depends on the Amplifier, the better the Amp, the better it stands out.
Also, thanks for the confirmation that the C9 doesn’t do anything special in Pre Mode.  It explains why the soundstage got deformed and imaging got confused.....double amplifications (LOL)!!! No wonder why the theory is good, but the performances were not....then it turned out this has no additional circuitry!
Anyways, that is why I always trust my ears first
Here is the Max 4.4 line out voltage 4.4!!!


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## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> Thanks Andy, and that is why the MAX line out sound so good with the C9.
> 
> I meant I test line out from all DAPs, but somehow the MAX really stands out, and it depends on the Amplifier, the better the Amp, the better it stands out.
> Also, thanks for the confirmation that the C9 doesn’t do anything special in Pre Mode.  It explains why the soundstage got deformed and imaging got confused.....double amplifications (LOL)!!! No wonder why the theory is good, but the performances were not....then it turned out this has no additional circuitry!
> ...



I try to summarized the scenarios as follows:

Line output from DAP or desktop DAC: use LINE input mode of C9, this is the default setting to use C9;
Pre-amp output from DAP, DAC and Pre-amplifier: use PRE-amp input mode of C9; this is an alternative setting to use C9;
Phone output if your DAP don't have line out option: use PRE-amp input mode of C9. It might or might not work, depends on the level of current gain, but worth trying because you don't have other options;
Pseudo Line out or Line out mode: try both line out mode to C9 LINE input and phone out to C9 PRE-amp input;
Variable Line Out: use LINE input mode of C9 with digital volume set to maximum or maintain at a higher level.
Pseudo Pre-amp Output or Pre-amp mode: similar to (4), try both line out to C9 LINE input and Pre-amp mode to C9 PRE-amp input, theoretically, LINE out option is the default C9 setting and it should be superior
It is important to understand the definition of Line output and Pre-amp output correctly. There are DAP that offers Line Out "mode" but the signal will go through the headphone amplifier circuit.  Both (1) and (2) are the official design application of Cayin C9, (3) to (6) are expanded scenario, it is not surprised that these scenario will be inferior to (1) and (2), but the point is, in reality, a lot of users were stuck with (3) or (4), they don't have a choice, and some users are confused by (5) and (6) 

In your case, you are comparing (1) and (3), and option (1) performs better then option (3), naturally.  When I suggest someone compare phone out vs line out, it belongs to option (4), when there is no information to confirm whether the line out is a clean, unamplified line out or its merely a fixed level output from headphone output.  

I have edited my previous Dual Input mode explanation to include this summary, and added another paragraph to accommodate option (6). Hopefully this will clarify various scenarios of dual input modes of C9.


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## Andykong

LabelH said:


> Sorry, I was  misunderstood the context. Ignore what i said previously.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sorry, can you clarify your setting for me? both "LO 1.05V/3V" and "Without LO" scenario is connected to C9 in Line input mode?  when you set SP2000 to "without LO", that is actually the phone output of the DAP?  So you have two volume control in place? Did you adjust two volume freely? or you fixed the volume control of SP2000 to a particular setting and use the volume control of C9 exclusively?


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## LabelH

Andykong said:


> Sorry, can you clarify your setting for me? both "LO 1.05V/3V" and "Without LO" scenario is connected to C9 in Line input mode?  when you set SP2000 to "without LO", that is actually the phone output of the DAP?  So you have two volume control in place? Did you adjust two volume freely? or you fixed the volume control of SP2000 to a particular setting and use the volume control of C9 exclusively?



LO 1.05V/3V means i tried Line Output at 1.05V (lowest) and 3V (highest) to C9 Line input mode, both are sound the same, volume control pure from C9 here.
Without LO, i turn off Line Output in DAP and connect to C9 Line input mode, I have 2 volume control from DAP + C9 here.

During the playing, I need to adjust the volume level to relatively match the loudness.
The "distortion" i heard, i think it's come from the song itself, i'm not sure about it, that's why i put (?) in my impression 
For my taste, LO in SP2000 sound aggressive compare to normal line input C9 or PRE mode.


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## LabelH

VancityDreaming said:


> How does it sound if you use the wm1a with the c9 as an amp? Im curious



@lumdicks I actually also curious LP P6 Pro pairing with C9. Could you share some comment?


----------



## lumdicks

LabelH said:


> @lumdicks I actually also curious LP P6 Pro pairing with C9. Could you share some comment?





P6 Pro is having variable LO and I have tried to connect to C9 via both Line in (option 5 as per @Andykong) and Preamp in (option 6). Both options further improve the power and imaging while preserving the tonality of P6 Pro, but I prefer option 5 as the background is darker and I can have better control on volume by using the C9.

The difference with standalone P6 Pro is even more obvious in driving CAN such as my Mr. Speakers Ether Flow Open.


----------



## LabelH

lumdicks said:


> P6 Pro is having variable LO and I have tried to connect to C9 via both Line in (option 5 as per @Andykong) and Preamp in (option 6). Both options further improve the power and imaging while preserving the tonality of P6 Pro, but I prefer option 5 as the background is darker and I can have better control on volume by using the C9.
> 
> The difference with standalone P6 Pro is even more obvious in driving CAN such as my Mr. Speakers Ether Flow Open.



Thanks for sharing. I really tempted to purchase another DAP and headphone now.


----------



## Andykong

lumdicks said:


> P6 Pro is having variable LO and I have tried to connect to C9 via both Line in (option 5 as per @Andykong) and Preamp in (option 6). Both options further improve the power and imaging while preserving the tonality of P6 Pro, but I prefer option 5 as the background is darker and I can have better control on volume by using the C9.
> 
> The difference with standalone P6 Pro is even more obvious in driving CAN such as my Mr. Speakers Ether Flow Open.



Just to recap:
5.  Variable Line Out: use LINE input mode of C9 with digital volume set to maximum or maintain at a higher level.
6.  Pseudo Pre-amp Output or Pre-amp mode: similar to (4), try both line out to C9 LINE input and Pre-amp mode to C9 PRE-amp input, theoretically, LINE out option is the default C9 setting and it should be superior

Glad to know your impression is in line with my "prediction".    

You have raised one interesting point: preserving the tonality of P6 Pro, is there any different between the two input modes along this line?


----------



## lumdicks

Andykong said:


> Just to recap:
> 5.  Variable Line Out: use LINE input mode of C9 with digital volume set to maximum or maintain at a higher level.
> 6.  Pseudo Pre-amp Output or Pre-amp mode: similar to (4), try both line out to C9 LINE input and Pre-amp mode to C9 PRE-amp input, theoretically, LINE out option is the default C9 setting and it should be superior
> 
> ...


Let me try both options again after working today and share more on this later.


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## runssical (Feb 9, 2021)

seamon said:


> My thoughts on the WA11 + Diana V2 pairing.
> 
> Basically it's not a transparent amp. It introduces low frequency distortions in the signal in a way that sounds bad.
> 
> ...



Have you noticed that both ALO and Oriolus have pulled out of the portable amp market? FiiO also discontinued their A5 amp and iBasso has stopped making dedicated amps. Cayin also discontinued their portable amps. With the Cayin C9 they're coming back to the market but only with a pricey boutique product that is sure to see extremely low sales volume. It's a shame that to see such nice device relegated to the status of prestiege product. I think this isattributed to declining demand for dedicated amps whcih may be the result of Apple and Samsung eliminating audio jacks from their smartphones. People are shifting to either AIO devices, DAC/AMP combo devices, or Bluetooth headphones. Otherwise I'm sure we would see more amazing products like the Cayin C9 and at much lower prices.

I hope other companies quickly reverse engineer the Cayin C9 and offer some alternatives at lower price points. Utilizing the ubiquitous18650 cells is a brilliant idea and ensures the amp will never go obsolete. This should be standard with portables.


----------



## seamon

runssical said:


> Have you noticed that both ALO and Oriolus have pulled out of the portable amp market? FiiO also discontinued their A5 amp and iBasso has stopped making dedicated amps. Cayin also discontinued their portable amps. With the Cayin C9 they're coming back to the market but only with a pricey boutique product that is sure to see extremely low sales volume. It's a shame that to see such nice device relegated to the status of prestiege product. I think this isattributed to declining demand for dedicated amps whcih may be the result of Apple and Samsung eliminating audio jacks from their smartphones. People are shifting to either AIO devices, DAC/AMP combo devices, or Bluetooth headphones. Otherwise I'm sure we would see more amazing products like the Cayin C9 and at much lower prices.
> 
> I hope other companies quickly reverse engineer the Cayin C9 and offer some alternatives at lower price points. Utilizing the ubiquitous18650 cells is a brilliant idea and ensures the amp will never go obsolete. This should be standard with portables.


Lol no. Oriolus just released a portable stack - BD20 DAC, BA20 Amp and BA300s mkii Tube amp. ALO is concentrating more on IEMs I think.


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## Andykong (Feb 9, 2021)

runssical said:


> Have you noticed that both ALO and Oriolus have pulled out of the portable amp market? FiiO also discontinued their A5 amp and iBasso has stopped making dedicated amps. Cayin also discontinued their portable amps. With the Cayin C9 they're coming back to the market but only with a pricey boutique product that is sure to see extremely low sales volume. It's a shame that to see such nice device relegated to the status of prestiege product. I think this isattributed to declining demand for dedicated amps whcih may be the result of Apple and Samsung eliminating audio jacks from their smartphones. People are shifting to either AIO devices, DAC/AMP combo devices, or Bluetooth headphones. Otherwise I'm sure we would see more amazing products like the Cayin C9 and at much lower prices.
> 
> I hope other companies quickly reverse engineer the Cayin C9 and offer some alternatives at lower price points. Utilizing the ubiquitous18650 cells is a brilliant idea and ensures the amp will never go obsolete. This should be standard with portables.



Apple and Samsung eliminating audio jacks from their smartphones has very little implication with portable headphone amplifier market because mobile phone users tends to look for DAC/Amp as their upgrade option with they want to use their mobile phone as source.  To start with, no mobile phone offers line out, audiophile are alway skeptical with double amping, and the quality of DAC function will become the inevitable bottleneck of the audio chain. DAC/Amp approach should relief the bottleneck conveniently.

Having said that, while Samsung and iphone rarely contributed to this market, LG and Vivo has frequently market their mobile phones as "HiFi quality". The Quad DAC of LG mobile phone has frequently quoted by some users as high quality phone output and comparable to a lot of DAPs.  Selected Vivo mobile phones has "HiFi mode", and they were the reason why ESS developed the famous ES9018K2M chipset that benefited a lot of DAP. I am interested to find out whether these HiFi quality mobile phone can be benefited by something like C9.

By the way, Cayin always prepared to share our expertise.  Check out the specification table and functional diagram of our DAP and C9 headphone amplifier, and the detail explanation of different features, including how we install the vacuum tubes into our portable devices.  We have provided a lot of detail information that you won't find in other brands.  I doubt you need to go through another round of reverse engineering if you are an well-trained electronic engineer with decent experience in related product R&D.


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## Whitigir (Feb 9, 2021)

I have tried all of Andy list to try from 1-6, and IMO I can clearly hear which one has a better line out implemented.  I kept saying that the Max somehow stood out with just Balanced Line out into C9 Line in (4).  The biggest differences is that it has a much more precise imaging, localization, definitive of staging and resolutions and cleaner backgrounds.  Then I read Andy post again and realized the Max has 4.4V line out, and also can confirm it has a true line out rather than Pseudo one.

Now, I think many other will be curious of this since N8 also offer a true line out, and I only know @twister6 to sport all of these.  What do you prefer between Max and N8 to C9 ?

I listen and test different line out from different DAP from time to time , realizing the differences but never had a clear understanding of their line out implementations.  Thanks @Andykong, I now can tell both the differences and the How.  In my opinion, the ability to reveal the source quality from the C9 is breathes taking from the open box experiences, and that is why I kept on saying that the C9 is worth every penny, and the proof of it being a sophisticated High End dedicated amp


----------



## runssical

Whitigir said:


> I have tried all of Andy list to try from 1-6, and IMO I can clearly hear which one has a better line out implemented.  I kept saying that the Max somehow stood out with just Balanced Line out into C9 Line in (4).  The biggest differences is that it has a much more precise imaging, localization, definitive of staging and resolutions and cleaner backgrounds.  Then I read Andy post again and realized the Max has 4.4V line out, and also can confirm it has a true line out rather than Pseudo one.
> 
> Now, I think many other will be curious of this since N8 also offer a true line out, and I only know @twister6 to sport all of these.  What do you prefer between Max and N8 to C9 ?
> 
> I listen and test different line out from different DAP from time to time , realizing the differences but never had a clear understanding of their line out implementations.  Thanks @Andykong, I now can tell both the differences and the How.  In my opinion, the ability to reveal the source quality from the C9 is breathes taking from the open box experiences, and that is why I kept on saying that the C9 is worth every penny, and the proof of it being a sophisticated High End dedicated amp



Are you the same guy who came up with the popular Z7 micropore tape and rewiring mods several years ago? Your username looks familiar.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 9, 2021)

runssical said:


> Are you the same guy who came up with the popular Z7 micropore tape and rewiring mods several years ago? Your username looks familiar.


I have been around for a while, and published a few DIY threads


----------



## lumdicks (Feb 9, 2021)

Andykong said:


> Just to recap:
> 5.  Variable Line Out: use LINE input mode of C9 with digital volume set to maximum or maintain at a higher level.
> 6.  Pseudo Pre-amp Output or Pre-amp mode: similar to (4), try both line out to C9 LINE input and Pre-amp mode to C9 PRE-amp input, theoretically, LINE out option is the default C9 setting and it should be superior
> 
> ...


According to Luxury and Precision, the variable LO of P6 Pro is implemented as follow:

_*Why is the LO volume of P6 and P6PRO adjustable?
The definition of LO is the analog audio signal directly output by the DAC after LPF (low pass filtering), without going through the headphone amplifier. The LO of most players cannot adjust the volume, such as the LO of L5, LP5, LP6 series, because the analog volume circuit is between the LPF and the amp circuit.

But then we found that the input level of many car audio is not standard. Once the input exceeds 1.5V, it will "clip the top", which will have a greater impact on the sense of hearing. Therefore, on the P6 and P6PRO, we deliberately put the analog volume circuit after the LPF. Before PO, the LO is connected behind the volume control circuit, which is convenient for the user to lower the level, so that the ideal distortion will be achieved when connected to the car audio. *_

With the above, would @Andykong please advise whether it can be regarded as real pre-out?

I have just tried both Line In and Preamp In of C9 with LO pf P6 Pro for a couple of songs, under tube mode and class AB with Unique Melody MEST and Satin Audio Zeus cable. Both modes have preserved the neutral, analog and effortless presentation of P6 Pro. For Line In mode, the background is darker and cleaner while for Pre In mode, the weight of notes is stronger with more reverb and stronger bass. Comparatively I enjoy the Pre In mode more upon more cautious audition but the volume control at C9 under Line In mode is more precise.

There are too many options of C9 for me to explore (Line / Pre In, balanced / SE, tube or solid state, class A or AB) with a number of DAPs that I own as sources (P6 Pro, LPGT Ti, DX300, Cayin N3 Pro and Sony 1A). As commented by @Whitigir, the C9 worths every penny and I found myself difficult to come back to standalone DAP setup without C9 when listening my music at home.


----------



## runssical

Andykong said:


> Apple and Samsung eliminating audio jacks from their smartphones has very little implication with portable headphone amplifier market because mobile phone users tends to look for DAC/Amp as their upgrade option with they want to use their mobile phone as source.  To start with, no mobile phone offers line out, audiophile are alway skeptical with double amping, and the quality of DAC function will become the inevitable bottleneck of the audio chain. DAC/Amp approach should relief the bottleneck conveniently.
> 
> Having said that, while Samsung and iphone rarely contributed to this market, LG and Vivo has frequently market their mobile phones as "HiFi quality". The Quad DAC of LG mobile phone has frequently quoted by some users as high quality phone output and comparable to a lot of DAPs.  Selected Vivo mobile phones has "HiFi mode", and they were the reason why ESS developed the famous ES9018K2M chipset that benefited a lot of DAP. I am interested to find out whether these HiFi quality mobile phone can be benefited by something like C9.
> 
> By the way, Cayin always prepared to share our expertise.  Check out the specification table and functional diagram of our DAP and C9 headphone amplifier, and the detail explanation of different features, including how we install the vacuum tubes into our portable devices.  We have provided a lot of detail information that you won't find in other brands.  I doubt you need to go through another round of reverse engineering if you are an well-trained electronic engineer with decent experience in related product R&D.



If we were to conduct a thorough cost/benifit analysis of your C9 product I think the result would be very disappointing. 

Regarding your comments on DAPs vs ESS's ES9018P Quad Dac SoC chip, which I believe is exclusively liscenced by LG, it's worth reviewing the measurements Amir at AudioScienceReview took of the LG G7 ThinQ and compare them against Sony's NW-WM1A, a top tier DAP ($1,299):

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...o-measurement-of-lg-g7-thinq-smartphone.4468/



https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ny-nw-wm1a-review-digital-audio-player.18099/

The G7 obliterates the Sony DAP in measurements. It's no contest. 

The Quad Dac does have an external device AUX mode. A few months ago I was asking around on the forums about the technical specifs of how the ES9018P handles volume and one person gave me a detailed explana7 which was positive and relived my concerns. He linked to a lengthy ESS working paper which was too dense with engineering jargon for me to understand but I could tell they had their s--- totgether. 

I do commend you for designing the CO around 18650 Li-Ion cells. Aroma did something similar with their obscure A100 amplifier. Hopefully more manufactures offer amps and DACs powered by this type of battery or 26650.


----------



## newworld666

runssical said:


> If we were to conduct a thorough cost/benifit analysis of your C9 product I think the result would be very disappointing.
> 
> Regarding your comments on DAPs vs ESS's ES9018P Quad Dac SoC chip, which I believe is exclusively liscenced by LG, it's worth reviewing the measurements Amir at AudioScienceReview took of the LG G7 ThinQ and compare them against Sony's NW-WM1A, a top tier DAP ($1,299):
> 
> ...


 
I didn't read carefully and went directly to the listening part. I wonder how serious can be such analysis as I don't understand what is related between measurements and listening results ? It looks rather surrealistic.

* LG G7 Listening Test*
I did some brief testing with two of my headphones. Using the HifiMan HE-400i,* the output was very anemic.* Its 35 ohm impedance forces the headphone amp to* clamp down resulting in too little power.* Switching to Sennheiser HD-650 results in a far more satisfying experience given its 300 ohm output. Mind you,* it is not super loud but good*. My Etymotic *ER4 SR produced decent levels too but still not loud enough*.  

*WM1A Listening Tests*
In high mode using balanced output, I was pleasantly surprised that* there was enough power to drive my inefficient Ether CX 25 ohm headphones.* *The sound was very clean and detailed with good bass*. Switching to Sennheiser HD-650 in* low gain mode was disappointing*. There was no dynamics and bass was suffering.* I did not try it in high mode but that should make a good difference. *


----------



## runssical

newworld666 said:


> I didn't read carefully and went directly to the listening part. I wonder how serious can be such analysis as I don't understand what is related between measurements and listening results ? It looks rather surrealistic.
> 
> * LG G7 Listening Test*
> I did some brief testing with two of my headphones. Using the HifiMan HE-400i,* the output was very anemic.* Its 35 ohm impedance forces the headphone amp to* clamp down resulting in too little power.* Switching to Sennheiser HD-650 results in a far more satisfying experience given its 300 ohm output. Mind you,* it is not super loud but good*. My Etymotic *ER4 SR produced decent levels too but still not loud enough*.
> ...



Of course, neither the LG or Sony device can properly drive a demanding headphone. The HD650 has a known impedance spike in the low frequency range that can get over 400 ohms. I'm referencing only their respective DAC performance, specifically SINAND.

 LG phones still have batter DAC measurements than what most companies can achieve. Not sure if any DAP from Cayin has been tested and measured by ASR.


----------



## xand

runssical said:


> I'm referencing only their respective DAC performance, specifically SINAND.
> 
> LG phones still have batter DAC measurements than what most companies can achieve.



Does it sound better if it has better measurements?


----------



## runssical

xand said:


> Does it sound better if it has better measurements?



Not necessarily. From what Amir at ASR has written you need a SINAND of 96dB or higher to fully encompass the dynamic range of  16bit PCM audio. Surprisingly, many DACs and Amps products fall short of this basic minimum threshold. Looks like that may include the $1,200 NW-WM1A. 

Most people probably can't hear the difference between a DAC that measures very well and another with middling performance. The bottom line is are you getting performance in line with the price you're paying or not.


----------



## xand (Feb 9, 2021)

runssical said:


> Not necessarily. From what Amir at ASR has written you need a SINAND of 96dB or higher to fully encompass the dynamic range of  16bit PCM audio. ... Most people probably can't hear the difference between a DAC that measures very well and another with middling performance.



Guess the measurement difference is irrelevant then. 

I assume that's your position since even if SINAND is 96dB or lower, "most people probably can't hear the difference".



runssical said:


> Surprisingly, many DACs and Amps products fall short of this basic minimum threshold. Looks like that may include the $1,200 NW-WM1A.



If the measurement difference is irrelevant, what's the relevance of the above?



runssical said:


> The bottom line is are you getting performance in line with the price you're paying or not.



No, the bottom line is whether you're happy with the purchase. Haven't you just said that the measurement difference is irrelevant...

In summary, if you care about measurements, please do look at the independent measurements and make sure they satisfy you. However, I'd still suggest demo-ing whatever it is you are buying (and not buying purely on measurements).


----------



## newworld666 (Feb 9, 2021)

runssical said:


> Of course, neither the *LG or Sony device can properly drive a demanding headphone*.



It's not exactly what I can read about his listening of the Sony WM1A ..
"I was pleasantly surprised that* there was enough power to drive my inefficient Ether CX 25 ohm headphones.* *The sound was very clean and detailed with good bass*. "

As I understood his unclear analysis .. with LG there is strictly no chance to enjoy a good headphone with it.

With WM1A, as he likes it with the inefficient Ehter CX and he didn't try with the powerful balanced output with the HD650 " *I did not try it in high mode but that should make a good difference.*" 
So I would say there is a good experience with music listening and the WM1A, though power is limited.

I imagine it would have been more interesting if by measurements *he could confirm what he can hear* by listening with proper headphones... It seems he can't confirm anything by measurements .. So, now, I am wondering what are his measurements related with ?


----------



## runssical

newworld666 said:


> It's not exactly what I can read about his listening of the Sony WM1A ..
> "I was pleasantly surprised that* there was enough power to drive my inefficient Ether CX 25 ohm headphones.* *The sound was very clean and detailed with good bass*. "
> 
> As I understood his unclear analysis .. with LG there is strictly no chance to enjoy a good headphone with it.
> ...



The explanation for this discrepancy can be attributed to the automatic current throttling of the Quad Dac chip. LG's implementation uses an impedance sensor for the 3.5mm flexjack. Sensor checks the impedance load of any connected cable plug when it's plugged in and sets the analog gain to one of three settings, Normal, High Impedance, and External Device. The threshold cutoff between 'Normal' and 'High impedance' is 50 ohms. Because of it's low impedance the Ether CX trips the normal gain mode. This mode is actually not "normal" as the name implies but instead an attenuation of the gain stage. This is not so much an issue with efficient EIMs but will deliver suboptimal power current to full sized power hungry headphones like the CX. The intention of LG engineers was to conserve battery power with lower impedance earphones with the assumption that they were ALL easy to drive. Obviously it was a mistake. But none of this impacts the External Mode which is for external amplifiers.

The chart below illustrates why the CX sounded underpowered out of the G7. Maximum power is 2.5mW for 50ohms but contrary to what we see with amplifiers output increases more than 5 fold for 300ohm loads. 








newworld666 said:


> As I understood his unclear analysis .. with LG there is strictly no chance to enjoy a good headphone with it.



This is untrue. I can't speak to the Ether CX synergy with an LG but Sony cans such as the Z7, Z7M2, and Z1R pair well. These headphones have high sensitivity and impedances that are just above the 50 ohm threshold of the Quad Dac sensor and are driven in High Gain mode. But I want to emphasize my original point that the ES9018 equipped LG phones are better than just about all DAPs. 

Amir's conclusion iabout the NW-WM1A, informed by both objective measurements and subjective listening was as unambiguous as you can get:



> You can do better with a used LG phone or many dongles


----------



## Whitigir

Isn’t microphone limited at 75DB dynamic range ?
Anyways, let’s get back to C9 before the train derailed too hard


----------



## runssical

@xand Measurements are important. Even Schiit publishes full Ap555 reports for their newer products. Has Cayin provided such transparency to justify the C9's price?


----------



## Whitigir

runssical said:


> @xand Measurements are important. Even Schiit publishes full Ap555 reports for their newer products. Has Cayin provided such transparency to justify the C9's price?


First page


----------



## lumdicks (Feb 9, 2021)

runssical said:


> @xand Measurements are important. Even Schiit publishes full Ap555 reports for their newer products. Has Cayin provided such transparency to justify the C9's price?


Should the price be determined by supply and demand, which is ultimately driven by customer need and satisfaction, instead of figures, graphs and specifications?

Anyone has the detailed comparison of accuracy, ease of use, fashionability between a G-Shock and Rolex Daytona, to justify the asking price of the latter?


----------



## Nostoi

Just pre-ordered a C9. I'll be happy to let people know how it compares to the BX2 Plus (which is a different version to the one @twister6 has) when I receive it. 

I'll be keeping one amp and selling the other. Stay tuned to find out who wins.


----------



## decur (Feb 9, 2021)

lumdicks said:


> P6 Pro is having variable LO and I have tried to connect to C9 via both Line in (option 5 as per @Andykong) and Preamp in (option 6). Both options further improve the power and imaging while preserving the tonality of P6 Pro, but I prefer option 5 as the background is darker and I can have better control on volume by using the C9.
> 
> The difference with standalone P6 Pro is even more obvious in driving CAN such as my Mr. Speakers Ether Flow Open.


i have my p6 pro arriving today,where did you get the clear case for it? and have you tried the p6pro/cayin c9 combo with abyss diana?


----------



## immortalsoul

Nostoi said:


> Just pre-ordered a C9. I'll be happy to let people know how it compares to the BX2 Plus (which is a different version to the one @twister6 has) when I receive it.
> 
> I'll be keeping one amp and selling the other. Stay tuned to find out who wins.


I am quite interested in this comparison. I can barely wait to hear from you how BX2+ fares against C9


----------



## Vitaly2017 (Feb 9, 2021)

@lumdicks 

Are those stock included from cayin interconect ? They look gold cables?


----------



## Nostoi

immortalsoul said:


> I am quite interested in this comparison. I can barely wait to hear from you how BX2+ fares against C9


I look forward to it, too. I think there's going to be a bit of wait, though, because of Chinese New Year and production demand. March I'm told is for the next batch. I continue to love the BX2+ it's a fantastically resolving amp, which drives my ZMF VC with ease (and even manages to push my 600ohm Beyers in the right direction). The C9 doesn't have the clout of the BX2+, but if it can drive the HD800, then I'm hopeful it can do the same with my ZMF. We'll see....


----------



## xand

runssical said:


> @xand Measurements are important. Even Schiit publishes full Ap555 reports for their newer products. Has Cayin provided such transparency to justify the C9's price?



So I guess you agree that better measurements doesn't mean better sound? Why are measurements important?


----------



## Vitaly2017

Nostoi said:


> I look forward to it, too. I think there's going to be a bit of wait, though, because of Chinese New Year and production demand. March I'm told is for the next batch. I continue to love the BX2+ it's a fantastically resolving amp, which drives my ZMF VC with ease (and even manages to push my 600ohm Beyers in the right direction). The C9 doesn't have the clout of the BX2+, but if it can drive the HD800, then I'm hopeful it can do the same with my ZMF. We'll see....




Do you find bx2+ a better amp then the previous bx2? How is fidelity and transparency? I found previous one to be slightly not as fidel


----------



## decur (Feb 9, 2021)

Nostoi said:


> Just pre-ordered a C9. I'll be happy to let people know how it compares to the BX2 Plus (which is a different version to the one @twister6 has) when I receive it.
> 
> I'll be keeping one amp and selling the other. Stay tuned to find out who wins.


yes,
i have romi bx2+ that i was using with my l&p p6 and now to be using it with the p6pro. the bx2+ is the most powerful portable(that also sounds excellent) it controls my abyss diana v2 like no other.


----------



## Nostoi

Vitaly2017 said:


> Do you find bx2+ a better amp then the previous bx2? How is fidelity and transparency? I found previous one to be slightly not as fidel


Yes, I found the BX2+ a notable upgrade to the previous one. Without wishing to underplay the first version, it felt a tad beta to me, at least in comparison to Plus. The Plus version has a much better channel balance, the volume control is far superior (and also there was a scratchiness on the non-Plus version), and the gain switch is more refined. There is some subtle expansion in soundstage, more headroom (Plus has more power), and a slightly better sense of detail. I found both to have good fidelity to the source to be honest. I think on that point, much depends on DAC and source, and use of line-out.


----------



## Nostoi

decur said:


> yes,
> i have romi bx2+ that i was using with my l&p p6 and now to be using it with the p6pro. the bx2+ is the most powerful portable(that also sounds excellent) it controls my abyss diana v2 like no other.


I agree, great amp. I missed your earlier posts - do you also have the C9 as a comparison already?


----------



## lumdicks

Vitaly2017 said:


> @lumdicks
> 
> Are those stock included from cayin interconect ? They look gold cables?


Yes it is a stock one. Seems that it is a copper wire.


----------



## twister6

runssical said:


> @xand Measurements are important. Even Schiit publishes full Ap555 reports for their newer products. Has Cayin provided such transparency to justify the C9's price?



Just a general comment, not even specific to C9.  You are right, measurements are important for some people.  But for many consumer audiophiles these type of measurements will only be confusing.  By no means am I discounting the effort ASR puts into their measurements or SoundExpert puts into their DF-measurements, and I'm not going to pretend that I understand most of it, I don't.  I review based on what I hear and feel when I hit the PLAY.  But I have noticed these measurements do create a lot of confusion for many people who don't understand it.  When you measure a number of devices, many people look at "numbers" as a ranking to determine which device sounds/performs better.  Just yesterday I replied to a similar post where someone shared a link to SoundExpert site.  I had people pinging me and asking what do I think about Hugo 2 and $90 shanling M0 being at the top of the list and A&K SP2000 and a free Apple lightning to 3.5mm dongle also having the same "DF measurement".  Literally, my readers are asking me if buying a high end DAP or DAC/amp is a waste of money because they measure the same as a free apple dongle that comes with their iPhone.  Sounds ridiculous, right?  But many people take such DAP measurements as a "review" and compare measurement results to determine which device will sound better and has a better value to justify the price.  Do you see my point? 

And btw, WM1Z/A doesn't have analog LO to really measure the output of their "dac", so I'm not even sure how these measurements work for a relative comparison to other players with a true LO.  And to get back on topic, I was testing WM1Z last night with C9 and found it to sound the best when setting C9 in Pre-amp mode and controlling the output with 1Z volume.


----------



## decur

Nostoi said:


> I agree, great amp. I missed your earlier posts - do you also have the C9 as a comparison already?


im considering c9, but after following some of the earlier posts here,im concerned that the c9 will not drive my abyss diana v2 properly.
i wish someone can chime in on c9/abyss pairings


----------



## Whitigir

lumdicks said:


> Yes it is a stock one. Seems that it is a copper wire.


Great looking stock cables, good flexibility, but still is an OFC, so there are improvements to be had if you want to squeeze the last drops.  I do recommend some real and good high end IC over stock for sure


----------



## Nostoi

decur said:


> im considering c9, but after following some of the earlier posts here,im concerned that the c9 will not drive my abyss diana v2 properly.
> i wish someone can chime in on c9/abyss pairings


I can't speak for the Diana, but I can let you know how far it pushes the ZMF VC. I will also likely try my 600ohm Beyers on it just for sh#ts and giggles.


----------



## lumdicks

Whitigir said:


> Great looking stock cables, good flexibility, but still is an OFC, so there are improvements to be had if you want to squeeze the last drops.  I do recommend some real and good high end IC over stock for sure


I have ordered an upgraded interconnect and waiting for delivery.


----------



## Vitaly2017

Nostoi said:


> Yes, I found the BX2+ a notable upgrade to the previous one. Without wishing to underplay the first version, it felt a tad beta to me, at least in comparison to Plus. The Plus version has a much better channel balance, the volume control is far superior (and also there was a scratchiness on the non-Plus version), and the gain switch is more refined. There is some subtle expansion in soundstage, more headroom (Plus has more power), and a slightly better sense of detail. I found both to have good fidelity to the source to be honest. I think on that point, much depends on DAC and source, and use of line-out.




Thats exactly it!  For me using it with iems primarily was a nightmare cause I was stuck using it in the range of 0 to 1/4 and that area is the weakest.... Half of it is channel imbalanced and then you got that scratchy itchy thing lol oh boy...





lumdicks said:


> Yes it is a stock one. Seems that it is a copper wire.




Nice good quality and its 8 wires right? Looks high quality stuff very neet!


----------



## bluestorm1992

Nostoi said:


> I can't speak for the Diana, but I can let you know how far it pushes the ZMF VC. I will also likely try my 600ohm Beyers on it just for sh#ts and giggles.


V2 owner here.  C9 is arriving today.


----------



## Nostoi

Vitaly2017 said:


> Thats exactly it!  For me using it with iems primarily was a nightmare cause I was stuck using it in the range of 0 to 1/4 and that area is the weakest.... Half of it is channel imbalanced and then you got that scratchy itchy thing lol oh boy...


Yep, they totally fixed that on the Plus version. That's why I say it felt a bit "beta" because they really should have fixed that before it was released. The Plus version works perfectly with IEMs on lo-gain.


----------



## bluestorm1992

lumdicks said:


> I have ordered an upgraded interconnect and waiting for delivery.


May I know which IC did you order?


----------



## Whitigir

Vitaly2017 said:


> Thats exactly it!  For me using it with iems primarily was a nightmare cause I was stuck using it in the range of 0 to 1/4 and that area is the weakest.... Half of it is channel imbalanced and then you got that scratchy itchy thing lol oh boy...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The C9 has such fine volume controls.  Just for the volume control and performances by itself, that is already worth $$$$ for IEMS IMO.


----------



## jonstatt

Whitigir said:


> Now, I think many other will be curious of this since N8 also offer a true line out, and I only know @twister6 to sport all of these.  What do you prefer between Max and N8 to C9 ?



N8 line out is far better than sp2k fake line out. Cleaner, better separation and soundstage. Bass heavy tracks become blurred on sp2k but retain instrument separation on n8.

I believe dx300 has true line out on 4.4 balanced with a very high 7v output


----------



## lumdicks

bluestorm1992 said:


> May I know which IC did you order?






Erua Tawa, a new brand from Taiwan which is quite popular in Asia recently. A mixed threads of Gold plated Silver and Paladium plated Silver on Litz Type 6.


----------



## bluestorm1992

lumdicks said:


> Erua Tawa, a new brand from Taiwan which is quite popular in Asia recently. A mixed threads of Gold plated Silver and Paladium plated Silver on Litz Type 6.


Thanks!!


----------



## Vitaly2017

jonstatt said:


> N8 line out is far better than sp2k fake line out. Cleaner, better separation and soundstage. Bass heavy tracks become blurred on sp2k but retain instrument separation on n8.
> 
> I believe dx300 has true line out on 4.4 balanced with a very high 7v output




Really sp2k is that bad? How did you test that out. I am just intrigued thought it was good.


----------



## runssical

Whitigir said:


> First page



Those specs are impressive but that's not what I meant. 

Is the BX2 Plus a  comparable alternative to the C9?


----------



## jonstatt

Vitaly2017 said:


> Really sp2k is that bad? How did you test that out. I am just intrigued thought it was good.



SP2k is a good DAP but what I am finding is in line out mode it starts to struggle because it has the amplifiers still in play. Essentially line out is just setting the volume to max. 

I use the DD hifi 2.5 and 3.5 double connection to 4.4 which essentially provides a ground but I also tried a 2.5 to 4.4 straight connect. There was no difference I could tell in blackness or sound quality.

It's not that bad, just the n8 is noticeably better I matched volume as best I could. The sp2k sounds great if you hear it first, but switch to n8 and a veil, is lifted. 

The problem with n8 is I don't like the interface and I do use streaming. 

I personally think sp2k is overpriced when you consider alternatives like dx300 are a third of the price in Europe


----------



## xand

You may have missed my message. 



runssical said:


> @xand Measurements are important. Even Schiit publishes full Ap555 reports for their newer products. Has Cayin provided such transparency to justify the C9's price?



So I guess you agree that better measurements doesn't mean better sound? Why are measurements important?



runssical said:


> Is the BX2 Plus a  comparable alternative to the C9?



I think you're going to get impressions from others in this thread - but what I can guarantee is that you won't find the answer by having ASR do measurements (although I think it'll be great if you do get both and send them both to ASR  ).


----------



## runssical (Feb 9, 2021)

xand said:


> So I guess you agree that better measurements doesn't mean better sound? Why are measurements important?



Measurements can help reveal design problems with an amplifier such as spotting 60hz mains noise from a poorly designed PSU circuit. I've seen other examples where measurements can spot channeling tracking issues, poor linearity, and of most importantnce for an amplifier is the basic distortion vs power measurement which can reveal whether an amp lives up to the power specs a manufacturer claims it does.

I would have never assumed that the Asgard 3 would struggle with lower impedance loads as ASR found.



Such information is useful for the audio equipment consumer. It would be helpful and brave of Cayin if they were to send a sample of the C9 to Amir for review.


----------



## lumdicks

decur said:


> i have my p6 pro arriving today,where did you get the clear case for it? and have you tried the p6pro/cayin c9 combo with abyss diana?


You can get the silicon case at below:

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/10050...5d29724a67e9a0d79e6Z.jpg_640x640Q90.jpg_.webp


----------



## Vitaly2017

jonstatt said:


> SP2k is a good DAP but what I am finding is in line out mode it starts to struggle because it has the amplifiers still in play. Essentially line out is just setting the volume to max.
> 
> I use the DD hifi 2.5 and 3.5 double connection to 4.4 which essentially provides a ground but I also tried a 2.5 to 4.4 straight connect. There was no difference I could tell in blackness or sound quality.
> 
> ...




Arrr okay I got the lineout issue will check that out but lol please dont bring dx300 vs sp2k 🤣😅


----------



## Whitigir

runssical said:


> Measurements can help reveal design problems with an amplifier such as spotting 60hz mains noise from a poorly designed PSU circuit. I've seen other examples where measurements can spot channeling tracking issues, poor linearity, and of most importantnce for an amplifier is the basic distortion vs power measurement which can reveal whether an amp lives up to the power specs a manufacturer claims it does.
> 
> I would have never assumed that the Asgard 3 would struggle with lower impedance loads as ASR found.
> 
> ...


With all due respects.  You can buy one and send as donate to Amir ? Even manufacturers need to make money.  Their samples to reviewers are not free, we are paying for it.  I rather trust my ears than any reviewers or graphs lol


----------



## xand

runssical said:


> Measurements can help reveal design problems with an amplifier such as spotting 60hz mains noise from a poorly designed PSU circuit. I've seen other examples where measurements can spot channeling tracking issues, poor linearity, and of most importantnce for an amplifier is the basic distortion vs power measurement which can reveal whether an amp lives up to the power specs a manufacturer claims it does.
> 
> I would have never assumed that the Asgard 3 would struggle with lower impedance loads as ASR found.
> 
> Such information is useful for the audio equipment consumer. It would be helpful and brave of Cayin if they were to send a sample of the C9 to Amir for review.



Oh is that your point, that Cayin should send their gear to be measured by a third party to see if the spec sheet is accurate? Sure, that's reasonable.

If that was actually your point, you kinda undermined it with your LG/WMZ example, which suggested you thought something which measures better sounds better - I'm glad you have entirely retracted that claim.

Good luck deciding on whether to acquire a C9 (really, demo it for yourself).


----------



## bluestorm1992

xand said:


> Oh is that your point, that Cayin should send their gear to be measured by a third party to see if the spec sheet is accurate? Sure, that's reasonable.
> 
> If that was actually your point, you kinda undermined it with your LG/WMZ example, which suggested you thought something which measures better sounds better - I'm glad you have entirely retracted that claim.
> 
> Good luck deciding on whether to acquire a C9 (really, demo it for yourself).


I have seen a lot of people with such tendency and it puzzles me a lot.

If they are interested in buying C9 and want to know whether it is good or not, nothing can replace doing a demo by themselves.


----------



## Whitigir

lumdicks said:


> Erua Tawa, a new brand from Taiwan which is quite popular in Asia recently. A mixed threads of Gold plated Silver and Paladium plated Silver on Litz Type 6.


What is the price of this IC ? It look good and durable as well


----------



## lumdicks

Whitigir said:


> What is the price of this IC ? It look good and durable as well


A bit less than USD200.


----------



## LabelH

lumdicks said:


> A bit less than USD200.



Can be up to USD300 with upgraded OFC connector


----------



## bluestorm1992

I wish Eletech can do interconnects as well, but the demand of such seems fairly small.


----------



## lumdicks

bluestorm1992 said:


> I wish Eletech can do interconnects as well, but the demand of such seems fairly small.


Exactly. I have a couple of Eletech cables and they are at top quality.


----------



## Whitigir

LabelH said:


> Can be up to USD300 with upgraded OFC connector


Doubt it! OFC connectors are minimum $90 a pop...and you need 2X, or well, you can do 1 OFC and 1 cheap one (kinda pointless )


----------



## Lu88

C9 user manual is available for download here. (It's written in multi-language including English.)
https://en.cayin.cn/download/?itemid=135


----------



## Whitigir

Lu88 said:


> C9 user manual is available for download here. (It's written in multi-language including English.)
> https://en.cayin.cn/download/?itemid=135


Thanks!! This saves me sometimes that I don’t need to dig out the paper manual each time I need lol


----------



## LabelH

Whitigir said:


> Doubt it! OFC connectors are minimum $90 a pop...and you need 2X, or well, you can do 1 OFC and 1 cheap one (kinda pointless )


If you select Erua OFC option the price will increase to HKD2,499 around USD320. I also consider this IC, but still explore bespoke option from other brand.

https://www.letsgoaudio.com/products/erua-audio-tawa-44-to-44-convertion-cable


----------



## Whitigir

LabelH said:


> If you select Erua OFC option the price will increase to HKD2,499 around USD320. I also consider this IC, but still explore bespoke option from other brand.
> 
> https://www.letsgoaudio.com/products/erua-audio-tawa-44-to-44-convertion-cable


Ohhhh not Pentaconn OFC! Got it!  Lately there are many good connectors and wires materials coming from China for sure.  But I tend to go with Pentaconn and Furutech where it counts lol


----------



## Vitaly2017

lumdicks said:


> A bit less than USD200.




Why faking it man I know you can do it!
Go all gold no plating! And make it usd 2000 hahaha

And use gold solder as well ! Full blast full Gold powers 😁😁😁


----------



## Whitigir

Vitaly2017 said:


> Why faking it man I know you can do it!
> Go all gold no plating! And make it usd 2000 hahaha
> 
> And use gold solder as well ! Full blast full Gold powers 😁😁😁


Are you talking about this ?


----------



## jmills8

Whitigir said:


> Are you talking about this ?


----------



## Lu88

bluestorm1992 said:


> I wish Eletech can do interconnects as well, but the demand of such seems fairly small.





lumdicks said:


> Exactly. I have a couple of Eletech cables and they are at top quality.



I asked them if they would accept custom orders for interconnect cables, and their answer was YES!
I recommend you to contact them after next Thursday (18th Feb), because they are closed until 17th for Chinese New Year Holiday.

I'm considering to order 4.4mm to 4.4mm Iliad and Socrates one. (I have a Socrates for my IEM.)


----------



## bluestorm1992

Lu88 said:


> I asked them if they would accept custom orders for interconnect cables, and their answer was YES!
> I recommend you to contact them after next Thursday (18th Feb), because they are closed until 17th for Chinese New Year Holiday.
> 
> I'm considering to order 4.4mm to 4.4mm Iliad and Socrates one. (I have a Socrates for my IEM.)


That’s so great! Thanks for sharing the info!!


----------



## ahossam

Any news regarding C9 case?


----------



## Whitigir

ahossam said:


> Any news regarding C9 case?


I am not sure what case is best for C9, it vents a lot of heat especially in Class AB and Tube mode.


----------



## Whitigir

jmills8 said:


>


Hmm what IC from ALO is that ?


----------



## Vitaly2017

Whitigir said:


> Are you talking about this ?




GLOWS 
🤩🤩🤩😍😍😍


----------



## Whitigir

I know it must have been Burn-In changes.  At the moment I am in love too much with *Class AB and Solid States*!!!

That dynamic, bass slams and punchiness, that soundstage, imaging, body, textures are all to die for!!! It is almost like I am listening to my desktop but I can stand up and walk around when needed!!

Also, the amp overall sound better after 20 minutes, not just KORG tubes LOL!!!  Don’t let that bother you though.  It just sound great as soon as it is cranked up, just better after some minutes


----------



## jmills8

Whitigir said:


> Hmm what IC from ALO is that ?


Yes


----------



## Whitigir

The C9 also uses Flat top and not button top kind of 18650.  You may be able to fit the button top in, but it may have a lot of resistance going in and out.  The easiest one is to use Flat top and unprotecTed


----------



## bluestorm1992

It is finally here!


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 9, 2021)

decur said:


> im considering c9, but after following some of the earlier posts here,im concerned that the c9 will not drive my abyss diana v2 properly.
> i wish someone can chime in on c9/abyss pairings


A very quick impression, C9 has more than enough power to drive V2. Half volume at high gain is already getting too loud for me.

Haven’t done any A/B with the Broadway Amp, but from my first impression, this pairing is already very enjoyable!

Edit: Do I still need my Hugo 2 anymore??  If you have the budget and want to get Hugo 2, don’t. Get C9 and pair it with a decent source and you are all good.


----------



## bluestorm1992

ahossam said:


> Any news regarding C9 case?


I feel that it’s build is so solid that there is really no need for a case. Plus, C9 heats up quite a bit, so probably not a good idea to get a tight case.


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> I feel that it’s build is so solid that there is really no need for a case. Plus, C9 heats up quite a bit, so probably not a good idea to get a tight case.


I was actually thinking about a heatsink LOL!


----------



## aaf evo

Still awaiting more impressions on the C9 before I pull the trigger.


----------



## normie610

bluestorm1992 said:


> A very quick impression, C9 has more than enough power to drive V2. Half volume at high gain is already getting too loud for me.
> 
> Haven’t done any A/B with the Broadway Amp, but from my first impression, this pairing is already very enjoyable!
> 
> Edit: Do I still need my Hugo 2 anymore??  If you have the budget and want to get Hugo 2, don’t. Get C9 and pair it with a decent source and you are all good.



Good enough to get rid of your Composer + Broadway combo?


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 9, 2021)

normie610 said:


> Good enough to get rid of your Composer + Broadway combo?


Almost I think! Need to do more testing first. I actually haven't had the time to even go back to my Broadway Amp; been too busy with IEM pairings.

Edit: I actually think that C9 is a no-brainer option if you want to enjoy V2 on-the-go. Hugo 2 is not even close to its power in driving full-size headphones.


----------



## runssical

There's no mention of the C9 on Cayin's Chinese website. Aren't they a Chinese company? This would be their main website:

www.en.cayin.cn






The website is also poorly formated. The "news" webpage unintendedly looks like a postmodern painting. I switched to desktop mode and reloaded and still no difference. They don't have a mobile version for their website either. Smh


----------



## bluestorm1992

runssical said:


> There's no mention of the C9 on Cayin's Chinese website. Aren't they a Chinese company? This would be their main website:
> 
> www.en.cayin.cn
> 
> ...


Their English website does not seem to be up-to-date. You can find most of the useful English information here as @Andykong is their official rep here.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 9, 2021)

A slight diverge in the discussion of C9. I try the Cayin N6ii with A02 motherboard (line-out specialized) and pair it with my Broadway Amp to drive Diana V2. WOW! Just as capable as my desktop Burson DAC, but different sound signature.

Next is to compare Broadway with C9.


----------



## xand (Feb 9, 2021)

runssical said:


> There's no mention of the C9 on Cayin's Chinese website. Aren't they a Chinese company? This would be their main website:
> 
> www.en.cayin.cn



https://en.cayin.cn/products_info?itemid=135



Also.. I suspect your news page issue is due to your custom font size setting... or some other weirdness. Just for transparency I used chrome on iOS 14.4 for all these screenshots.


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> A slight diverge in the discussion of C9. I try the Cayin N6ii with A02 motherboard (line-out specialized) and pair it with my Broadway Amp to drive Diana V2. WOW! Just as capable as my desktop Burson DAC, but different sound signature.
> 
> Next it to compare Broadway with C9.


You need those mittens to handle the C9 ? I don’t recall it being that hot


----------



## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> You need those mittens to handle the C9 ? I don’t recall it being that hot


Haha Nono, just happen to be on my table. It is in fact never too hot.


----------



## bluestorm1992

IC certainly plays an important role here. With my Silver dragon interconnect, the sound is more open and transparent.


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> IC certainly plays an important role here. With my Silver dragon interconnect, the sound is more open and transparent.


Oh!!! Very much so, hence I went all out for an End game !!!


----------



## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> Oh!!! Very much so, hence I went all out for an End game !!!


OK now I need a Iliad interconnect from Eletech.


----------



## runssical

@xand, I think it's a little bit of both. My accessibility settings were near maxed out on my phone. However, even after dropping my android Font setting down to medium and putting Chrome zoom back at 100% their webpage is still slightly distorted with overlapping text lines. Not as bad as before. I found that this rendering problem disappears when I rotate to landscape.


----------



## xand

runssical said:


> @xand, I think it's a little bit of both. My accessibility settings were near maxed out on my phone. However, even after dropping my android Font setting down to medium and putting Chrome zoom back at 100% their webpage is still slightly distorted with overlapping text lines. Not as bad as before. I found that this rendering problem disappears when I rotate to landscape.



Something for @Andykong to note! 

I did briefly try replicating what you saw in the first post with my iPhone (i changed the accessibility text size to maximum) and desktop (changed the font sizing up and down) and couldn't do it, could still be some android chrome interaction.


----------



## Nostoi

bluestorm1992 said:


> Almost I think! Need to do more testing first. I actually haven't had the time to even go back to my Broadway Amp; been too busy with IEM pairings.
> 
> Edit: I actually think that C9 is a no-brainer option if you want to enjoy V2 on-the-go. Hugo 2 is not even close to its power in driving full-size headphones.


Good to hear about the Hugo 2 synergy. Any more impressions of this pairing? Are you going via RCA or 3.5mm to 3.5mm IC?


----------



## jonstatt

bluestorm1992 said:


> I feel that it’s build is so solid that there is really no need for a case. Plus, C9 heats up quite a bit, so probably not a good idea to get a tight case.



It can still get scratched up. I am thinking a dignis style case with heatsink is needed


----------



## xand

jonstatt said:


> It can still get scratched up. I am thinking a dignis style case with heatsink is needed



Yes yes please work with Dignis to make this happen!


----------



## jonstatt

xand said:


> Yes yes please work with Dignis to make this happen!



@Andykong You have a working relationship with Dignis already. Can you send them a C9 shell so they can make a case?


----------



## ahossam

yes, maybe not full body case, just enough to protect from light bump and scratches.


----------



## TheNameIsGerald

TheNameIsGerald said:


> What store in the EU has the C9 in stock?


Any pointers? I couldn't find it at any of Cayin's official dealers.


----------



## Nostoi

TheNameIsGerald said:


> Any pointers? I couldn't find it at any of Cayin's official dealers.


I asked at both Son Video in France and Hifi Sound in Germany. Didn't hear back any from them. Ended up ordering from AMP3 in UK who are very responsive.


----------



## Whitigir

I am surprised no one seems to care about a good IC with real Furutech or Pentaconn OFC lol


----------



## LabelH

Whitigir said:


> I am surprised no one seems to care about a good IC with real Furutech or Pentaconn OFC lol



Between  Furutech  or Pentaconn OFC, which one provide wider soundstage?


----------



## Whitigir

LabelH said:


> Between  Furutech  or Pentaconn OFC, which one provide wider soundstage?


Furutech for sure, but Pentaconn has better reliability and denser tonal body


----------



## Whitigir

Small corner at home for a poor man just learning about music


----------



## normie610

Whitigir said:


> Small corner at home for a poor man just learning about music



Still learning after all these years?


----------



## Whitigir

normie610 said:


> Still learning after all these years?


😂the curves seem going on forever to be honest.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 10, 2021)

Nostoi said:


> Good to hear about the Hugo 2 synergy. Any more impressions of this pairing? Are you going via RCA or 3.5mm to 3.5mm IC?


I am doing it through 3.5 to 3.5 mm IC, and I have tried both the Pre-in mode and line-in mode of C9. The effects are quite similar: You get mostly Hugo 2 sound signature plus a lot more power in the output. The sound did become slightly more analytical, I think partly due to me using the SS mode of C9.

In addition, I have found that the degree C9 (even in line-in) changes the signature of the source vary from source to source. For example, I have always found Hugo 2 to have a dominant sound signature (in a good way), so what C9 does is mainly giving it more power. If I use a source like LPG, the change in sound signature is much more noticeable.


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> I am doing it through 3.5 to 3.5 mm IC, and I have tried both the Pre-in mode and line-in mode of C9. The effects are quite similar: You get mostly Hugo 2 sound signature plus a lot more power in the output. The sound did become slightly more analytical, I think partly due to me using the SS mode of C9.
> 
> In addition, I have found that the degree C9 (even in line-in) changes the signature of the source vary from source to source. For example, I have always found Hugo 2 to have a dominant sound signature (in a good way), so what C9 does is mainly giving it more power. If I use a source like LPG, the change in sound signature is much more noticeable.


Isn’t the 3.5mm the phone out ? RCA will be your true line out.  I think the differences of influences between sources that you observed is from the True line out on LPG vs the phone out ?


----------



## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> Isn’t the 3.5mm the phone out ? RCA will be your true line out.  I think the differences of influences between sources that you observed is from the True line out on LPG vs the phone out ?


I have checked this. Hugo 2's line-out mode is really just setting its volume/output power to max. RCA and phone out all share the same source in the back, just different output formats as I understand it.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 10, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> I have checked this. Hugo 2's line-out mode is really just setting its volume/output power to max. RCA and phone out all share the same source in the back, just different output formats as I understand it.


So it doesn’t have any Line out, and that is why the C9 influences it differently than LPG which I assumes having true line out

The C9 has the ability to expose the quality of line in performances from the source very well.  That is how I come to realize the Max has a true Balanced Out Vs others which has Pseudo Line Out and especially VS just phones out


----------



## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> So it doesn’t have any Line out, and that is why the C9 influences it differently than LPG which I assumes having true line out
> 
> The C9 has the ability to expose the quality of line in performances from the source very well.  That is how I come to realize the Max has a true Balanced Out Vs others which has Pseudo Line Out and especially VS just phones out


I think this is very true. From a different angle, this is not necessarily a bad thing for the combo of Hugo 2 + C9; I enjoyed its sound signature very much, but just have some complaint for its power in driving full-size headphones. Adding a C9 to it helps to address this.


----------



## Nostoi

bluestorm1992 said:


> I am doing it through 3.5 to 3.5 mm IC, and I have tried both the Pre-in mode and line-in mode of C9. The effects are quite similar: You get mostly Hugo 2 sound signature plus a lot more power in the output. The sound did become slightly more analytical, I think partly due to me using the SS mode of C9.
> 
> In addition, I have found that the degree C9 (even in line-in) changes the signature of the source vary from source to source. For example, I have always found Hugo 2 to have a dominant sound signature (in a good way), so what C9 does is mainly giving it more power. If I use a source like LPG, the change in sound signature is much more noticeable.


Thanks very much, good to hear. Yes, as you mention below, the Hugo 2 doesn't have a true line out - just a line level - so the "amp" section (even though there isn't one) can't be bypassed. That's fine for me, like you, the sound signature of the Hugo 2 suits me well. I'll mostly be using the C9 on a Lotoo Paw 6000, which of course does have a true line out.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 10, 2021)

Batteries rolling !! 1-4 from left to right



1/ Similar to Stock Sony but would have a lower rating with bass faster, not as energetic as Sony VCT6.
https://www.orbtronic.com/40a-18650-3120mah-button-top-battery-high-drain

2/ Worse sound performances, bass is like Non existed, no impacts, vocal slightly lacks body, though very good for trebles....probably because it didn’t have much ooohmms in mid and bass ? Avoid!!
https://www.imrbatteries.com/sanyo-...ource=yotpo&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=map

3/ Best batteries with blackest back ground, best sub bass and bass body, tube like transients overall, smoother trebles, great textures.  *Highly recommended *
https://www.orbtronic.com/3500mah-18650-imr-battery-high-drain-rechargeable-orbtronic-li-ion

4/ Stock batteries Sony VCT6.  Also one of the best sounding batteries, Very Neutral signatures, impactful bass,
https://www.orbtronic.com/sony-vtc6-18650-battery-flat-top


----------



## bluestorm1992

Nostoi said:


> Thanks very much, good to hear. Yes, as you mention below, the Hugo 2 doesn't have a true line out - just a line level - so the "amp" section (even though there isn't one) can't be bypassed. That's fine for me, like you, the sound signature of the Hugo 2 suits me well. I'll mostly be using the C9 on a Lotoo Paw 6000, which of course does have a true line out.


I think this will be an excellent choice! To me, you benefit from C9 the most when you are quite happy with the sound signature of the source, but find it lacking power in the output. That used to be my complaint for the LP6K, and even LPGT. I found that neither of them was able to drive my IER-Z1R (not to mention Diana V2) to a satisfactory level. If C9 existed back then, I would have kept these two players and just add a C9 to my system.


----------



## TheNameIsGerald

Nostoi said:


> I asked at both Son Video in France and Hifi Sound in Germany. Didn't hear back any from them. Ended up ordering from AMP3 in UK who are very responsive.


thank you for confirming! I'd rather avoid the UK though...


----------



## Nostoi (Feb 10, 2021)

TheNameIsGerald said:


> thank you for confirming! I'd rather avoid the UK though...


If you're concerned about customs tax, don't be - they'll take this into account. I've ordered from the before from UK to Vienna, no problems with UPS as courier.


----------



## Nostoi

bluestorm1992 said:


> I think this will be an excellent choice! To me, you benefit from C9 the most when you are quite happy with the sound signature of the source, but find it lacking power in the output. That used to be my complaint for the LP6K, and even LPGT. I found that neither of them was able to drive my IER-Z1R (not to mention Diana V2) to a satisfactory level. If C9 existed back then, I would have kept these two players and just add a C9 to my system.


Cheers, sounds good. Yep, the signature of both the LP6K and Hugo 2 suits me perfectly, so I think the C9 will be a great addition to them both.


----------



## andersos

Nostoi said:


> If you're concerned about customs tax, don't be - they'll take this into account. I've ordered from the before from UK to Vienna, no problems with UPS as courier.


Will they get it in stock in March?


----------



## Nostoi

andersos said:


> Will they get it in stock in March?


Seems to be the case.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Testing (while trying to grade homework lol).


----------



## DaYooper

Grade depend on the music?


----------



## bluestorm1992

DaYooper said:


> Grade depend on the music?


Then I will give A to all the homework!


----------



## lumdicks

lumdicks said:


> Erua Tawa, a new brand from Taiwan which is quite popular in Asia recently. A mixed threads of Gold plated Silver and Paladium plated Silver on Litz Type 6.






My IC arrived and it looks and sounds beautifully 😍.  Imaging further expanded with even better high low dynamics and clarity.


----------



## LabelH

Thank you @Whitigir for sharing useful information. Though, my previous question about connector were half-joking. 


Whitigir said:


> Furutech for sure, but Pentaconn has better reliability and denser tonal body





Whitigir said:


> Batteries rolling !! 1-4 from left to right
> 
> 
> 1/ Similar to Stock Sony but would have a lower rating with bass faster, not as energetic as Sony VCT6.
> ...





lumdicks said:


> My IC arrived and it looks and sounds beautifully 😍.  Imaging further expanded with even better high low dynamics and clarity.



@lumdicks maybe time for upgrade Pentaconn OFC


----------



## Andykong (Feb 11, 2021)

lumdicks said:


> According to Luxury and Precision, the variable LO of P6 Pro is implemented as follow:
> 
> _*Why is the LO volume of P6 and P6PRO adjustable?
> The definition of LO is the analog audio signal directly output by the DAC after LPF (low pass filtering), without going through the headphone amplifier. The LO of most players cannot adjust the volume, such as the LO of L5, LP5, LP6 series, because the analog volume circuit is between the LPF and the amp circuit.
> ...



Base on the description you provided, this is not a pre-amp output.  Apparently this is an attenuated LPF output so that you can used it in "alternative" scenario such as car audio.  No voltage gain is mentioned and is unlikely included based on the application they quoted.  I'll classify this as variable line out, IMHO.

I'll be looking forward to more impression from you on mix and match C9 with different source in different connection and in different setting/mode, arithmetically, you have over 50 combinations to deal with, if not 100.  

PS: I take 1 day off only, and we have 8 new  pages in this thread, ...  you guys just won't stop at all.


----------



## Andykong

runssical said:


> @xand Measurements are important. Even Schiit publishes full Ap555 reports for their newer products. Has Cayin provided such transparency to justify the C9's price?



I see, we need to JUSTIFY our price with a measurement report.  So Schiit sells more unit after they published the report? 30% increase in sales? or 3%? You got to give me some figure so that I can convince my management to take the risk of publishing something that a large percentage of worldwide consumers will be confused and misunderstood.


----------



## Andykong

jonstatt said:


> N8 line out is far better than sp2k fake line out. Cleaner, better separation and soundstage. Bass heavy tracks become blurred on sp2k but retain instrument separation on n8.
> 
> I believe dx300 has true line out on 4.4 balanced with a very high 7v output



7V line out?  that's the highest output level I have read so far,  please make sure your amplifier can accept line input at this level because you try it out, or at least try it at very low volume and move up gradually.

By the way, when I said "pseudo" line out, I thought I was very brave already.


----------



## Andykong

jonstatt said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...



May I suggest N6ii with A02, while stock last only.


----------



## lumdicks (Feb 11, 2021)

Andykong said:


> Base on the description you provided, this is not a pre-amp output.  Apparently this is an attenuated LPF output so that you can used it in "alternative" scenario such as car audio.  No voltage gain is mentioned and is unlikely included based on the application they quoted.  I'll classify this as variable line out, IMHO.
> 
> I'll be looking forward to more impression from you on mix and match C9 with different source in different connection and in different setting/mode, arithmetically, you have over 50 combinations to deal with, if not 100.
> 
> PS: I take 1 day off only, and we have 8 new  pages in this thread, ...  you guys just won't stop at all.


And I have 12 pairs of IEMs.
Too many combinations, too little time......
The sweetest pain of audiophile.


----------



## Andykong

bluestorm1992 said:


> I have seen a lot of people with such tendency and it puzzles me a lot.
> 
> If they are interested in buying C9 and want to know whether it is good or not, nothing can replace doing a demo by themselves.



Couldn't agree more.  If you are in doubt, please wait for a demo in person. That's always my advice to customer inquiries.  
Sadly, without CanJam, AXPONA, Munich high-end, HK High-end AV show, .... we have a very hard time to facilitate a demo, so my next suggestion is to wait for more reviews and user impression if you are in doubt.


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> I am not sure what case is best for C9, it vents a lot of heat especially in Class AB and Tube mode.



The Nutube won't generate a lot of heat during operation, but it will draw more current, and therefore heated up the circuit in Class AB mode when compare to Solid State mode.

Class A probably will generate more heat, in regardless tube or SS mode.


----------



## xand

Andykong said:


> I see, we need to JUSTIFY our price with a measurement report.  So Schiit sells more unit after they published the report? 30% increase in sales? or 3%? You got to give me some figure so that I can convince my management to take the risk of publishing something that a large percentage of worldwide consumers will be confused and misunderstood.



I suggest you don't bother. lol. I know about ASR and think it's great he exists, but I agree the only reason he's helpful is the independent measurements, and obviously I don't care enough to wait.


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> I know it must have been Burn-In changes.  At the moment I am in love too much with *Class AB and Solid States*!!!
> 
> That dynamic, bass slams and punchiness, that soundstage, imaging, body, textures are all to die for!!! It is almost like I am listening to my desktop but I can stand up and walk around when needed!!
> 
> Also, the amp overall sound better after 20 minutes, not just KORG tubes LOL!!!  Don’t let that bother you though.  It just sound great as soon as it is cranked up, just better after some minutes



The discrete components probably takes longer to enter optimum condition when compare to Op-amp based circuit.


----------



## xand (Feb 11, 2021)

Speaking of which - it's here!


----------



## Whitigir

xand said:


> Speaking of which - it's here!


Congratulations!! Welcome to the club!


----------



## Andykong

bluestorm1992 said:


> Almost I think! Need to do more testing first. I actually haven't had the time to even go back to my Broadway Amp; been too busy with IEM pairings.
> 
> Edit: I actually think that C9 is a no-brainer option if you want to enjoy V2 on-the-go. Hugo 2 is not even close to its power in driving full-size headphones.



I think headphone pairing is relatively straightforward, once we have impression with Utopia/Stella,  HD800, ZMF VC, Empyrean, Diana, HE1000v2, HEDDphone, ... we know what C9 the strength and limitation of C9 already.  It's the mix and match with different IEM (in different setting/mode) that remain a lot of uncertainties.

So please, share your observations with IEM paring, I am sure that will offer a lot of insight to the readers of this thread.


----------



## Andykong (Feb 11, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> I am doing it through 3.5 to 3.5 mm IC, and I have tried both the Pre-in mode and line-in mode of C9. The effects are quite similar: You get mostly Hugo 2 sound signature plus a lot more power in the output. The sound did become slightly more analytical, I think partly due to me using the SS mode of C9.
> 
> In addition, I have found that the degree C9 (even in line-in) changes the signature of the source vary from source to source. For example, I have always found Hugo 2 to have a dominant sound signature (in a good way), so what C9 does is mainly giving it more power. If I use a source like LPG, the change in sound signature is much more noticeable.



If you are using LPG in 3.5mm line out, your observations is kind of anticipated.  I believe Hugo 2 line out is a only a fixed voltage output from phone out, maybe with a different output impedance?  So this is more like a pseudo line out in my previous list, but the LPG 3.5mm line out is probably an unamplified clean line out.



bluestorm1992 said:


> I have checked this. Hugo 2's line-out mode is really just setting its volume/output power to max. RCA and phone out all share the same source in the back, just different output formats as I understand it.



Probably not setting volume or output power to max, just a predetermined output level.  

When you said different output format, do they share the same output impedance?  Did Chord provide any information along that line?


----------



## Andykong

lumdicks said:


> And I have 12 pairs of IEMs.
> Too many combinations, too little time......
> The sweetest pain of audiophile.



You better start with an Excel worksheet


----------



## jonstatt

Andykong said:


> May I suggest N6ii with A02, while stock last only.



I just ordered it from Audio Concierge!


----------



## Nostoi

jonstatt said:


> I just ordered it from Audio Concierge!


Did he give you an ETA on arrival?


----------



## jonstatt

Nostoi said:


> Did he give you an ETA on arrival?



It will ship as soon as @Andykong can arrange after Chinese New Year break


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 11, 2021)

Andykong said:


> If you are using LPG in 3.5mm line out, your observations is kind of anticipated.  I believe Hugo 2 line out is a only a fixed voltage output from phone out, maybe with a different output impedance?  So this is more like a pseudo line out in my previous list, but the LPG 3.5mm line out is probably an unamplified clean line out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info!

As for the output format of Hugo 2, I haven’t checked the impedance and I think I won’t bother to because the only useful connection to me is 3.5 to 3.5 to C9.


----------



## bluestorm1992

xand said:


> Speaking of which - it's here!


Congrats! I am sure you are busy testing now.


----------



## bluestorm1992

jonstatt said:


> I just ordered it from Audio Concierge!


A02 is fabulous - far exceeding my expectation. It is now replacing my desktop DAC to drive my Broadway Amp. Performance-wise my Burson DAC still wins, but N6ii + A02 gives close enough SQ to me while offering a lot more convenience.


----------



## runssical

Anyone think Cayin is using


Andykong said:


> I see, we need to JUSTIFY our price with a measurement report.  So Schiit sells more unit after they published the report? 30% increase in sales? or 3%? You got to give me some figure so that I can convince my management to take the risk of publishing something that a large percentage of worldwide consumers will be confused and misunderstood.



Maybe I'm too fixated on measurements. The C9 looks like an excellent amp and I love that it uses replaceable 18650s but it's out of my price range. Hopefully, if the C9 is successful Cayin will consider offering a more affordable option.


----------



## xand

bluestorm1992 said:


> Congrats! I am sure you are busy testing now.



Actually.. I hate testing, I'm now just listening to the music! 

(It helps that the DX300 alone was better than my old source/amp).

The following is real fun:


----------



## bluestorm1992

xand said:


> Actually.. I hate testing, I'm now just listening to the music!
> 
> (It helps that the DX300 alone was better than my old source/amp).
> 
> The following is real fun:



Absolutely! Enjoying music is the most important thing. Any early impressions?


----------



## KickAssChewGum (Feb 11, 2021)

I received my C9 from Musicteck yesterday (thanks Andrew for awesome service as always!) and I am super impressed. Much more so than I was expecting to be, if I'm being honest.

A&K SP2000 Cu (set to 6v balanced line out) > Effect Audio AK 4.4mm adapter > Penon Totem 4.4mm Interconnect > Cayin C9 (set to AB Tube) > Empire Ears Odin + 4.4mm adapter = a religious experience - pretty much my ideal sound signature.


----------



## xand

Well, compared to the DX300 alone - basically the C9 is significantly better. 

Separation is more apparent, everything is "fuller", there's more energy, more speed, vocals are sweeter, bass has more weight, it's more articulate, soundstage possibly has improved, placement has definitely improved. 

This is out of Utopia. 

I'll probably listen to my Zeus XR later (just had some cables re-terminated to balance) - but I much prefer the Utopia to the Zeus


----------



## Whitigir

The C9 is an excellent amplifier, especially the footprints is so compact with excellent aesthetics designs.

The C9 deserves everything high ends and sophisticated to support it, from good batteries to good interconnect and sources


----------



## ahossam

Is this good? ifi 4.4mm IC


----------



## bluestorm1992

ahossam said:


> Is this good? ifi 4.4mm IC


I also want to get this one! But the shipping to US is too long (Amazon expected data is like in March). I am thinking to get a custom-made one from Eletech.


----------



## ahossam

bluestorm1992 said:


> I also want to get this one! But the shipping to US is too long (Amazon expected data is like in March). I am thinking to get a custom-made one from Eletech.



Mine is on the way, guess I will find out soon.


----------



## Whitigir

ahossam said:


> Mine is on the way, guess I will find out soon.


Is there link to the descriptions?

The C9 gets hot with Class A and Tube, the hottest operation mode.


----------



## xand

I'm pretty sure I'm going to get a replacement IC - mostly because I want to be able to play with the DAP while the C9 is far away.

Do you think there's a limit as to length, after which there's a notable decrease in  performance?

I'm thinking 18 inches...

Also, the C9 does run pretty hot? More than I remember of the demo, but I wasn't really trying to carry the demo around. Pressing a finger to it becomes very uncomfortable after 3-4 seconds - is this your experience too?




Whitigir said:


> Is there link to the descriptions?


https://ifi-audio.com/products/4-4mm-to-4-4mm-cable/


----------



## Whitigir

xand said:


> I'm pretty sure I'm going to get a replacement IC - mostly because I want to be able to play with the DAP while the C9 is far away.
> 
> Do you think there's a limit as to length, after which there's a notable decrease in  performance?
> 
> ...


Ah SPC materials.  It depends, but that is an affordable solutions.  The C9 deserves more than just SPC.  Just listen to it for yourself.  The better the IC, the better the C9 will sing


----------



## bluestorm1992

xand said:


> I'm pretty sure I'm going to get a replacement IC - mostly because I want to be able to play with the DAP while the C9 is far away.
> 
> Do you think there's a limit as to length, after which there's a notable decrease in  performance?
> 
> ...


Just noticed you’ve changed your profile pic - a beautiful combo!


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> Just noticed you’ve changed your profile pic - a beautiful combo!


Thanks for the idea  just got mine Done!  The HD800S and C9 with Class A/Tubes is such a wonderful combo


----------



## ahossam

Whitigir said:


> Is there link to the descriptions?



https://ifi-audio.com/products/4-4mm-to-4-4mm-cable/


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 11, 2021)

For 18650 purposes.  I recommend this charger .  It allows 4 batteries, and has the ability to charge many others, but most importantly is to “Match the Internal resistances” of your batteries.  I may have a habit of matching stuff from my own DIY building and even tubes amp....so I always jump in for “matching stats”.  This feature is awesome and easy to use

I am using 4 matching of 22mOhms Internal resistances .  These will change as the batteries aged down, but at least they should be matched and staying in the range lol
https://www.orbtronic.com/battery-charger-21700-26650-18650-14500-li-ion-ni-mh-aa-aaa

Also, don’t forget to grab your set of batteries.  With this one, you will hear improvements in staging, bass, body, textures.
https://www.orbtronic.com/3500mah-18650-imr-battery-high-drain-rechargeable-orbtronic-li-ion



Since I have discovered the batteries and the chemicals that made it will also effect the sound quality. I am grabbing another kind of batteries to check out. Will report soon


----------



## twister6

Whitigir said:


> Thanks for the idea  just got mine Done!  The HD800S and C9 with Class A/Tubes is such a wonderful combo



Traillii and C9 with Class AB/Tubes for me!  Still deciding between the sources; I like MAX LO, N6ii E02 LO, R8 LO, and LPGT LO.


----------



## aaf evo

twister6 said:


> Traillii and C9 with Class AB/Tubes for me!  Still deciding between the sources; I like MAX LO, N6ii E02 LO, R8 LO, and LPGT LO.



I don’t want to read this


----------



## bye2

haha...  love to see this thread going.

Not much choice of mine, mostly I'm using Ropiee > Hogo 2 > C9 with either Ether 2 / IER-Z1R / Odin for the convenient desktop ready setup.  Between them, I like Tube A using 3.5 output in low gain with Odin for the warm, smoothness and energy.  Moving around, I will pick my wm1a with C9.

May try again with ta-zh1es preamp and New R6 variable lineout later, or the fake lineout of my broken SP1000.


----------



## bluestorm1992

aaf evo said:


> I don’t want to read this


Is this becoming too tempting for you to buy C9?


----------



## cheznous

Nostoi said:


> Did he give you an ETA on arrival?


I emailed asking about availability but had no reply. Mind you same nil response from Advanced MP3. I wish Hifonix stocked Cayin rather than the two who do.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 11, 2021)

twister6 said:


> Traillii and C9 with Class AB/Tubes for me!  Still deciding between the sources; I like MAX LO, N6ii E02 LO, R8 LO, and LPGT LO.


By far I am loving Max line out the best.  Hopefully I can get to hear A02 and N6ii later when the opportunity present itself, just for curiosity lol


----------



## immortalsoul

Whitigir said:


> By far I am loving Max line out the best.  Hopefully I can get to hear A02 and N6ii later when the opportunity present itself, just for curiosity lol


Is that the only motherboard for Cayin N6II that you want to try?


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 11, 2021)

immortalsoul said:


> Is that the only motherboard for Cayin N6II that you want to try?


Yes, only want to try a dedicated balanced true line out board


----------



## DaYooper

Whitigir said:


> By far I am loving Max line out the best.  Hopefully I can get to hear A02 and N6ii later when the opportunity present itself, just for curiosity lol


Too bad you don't live closer to me, I would lend it to you for trying.


----------



## iFi audio

ahossam said:


> Is this good? ifi 4.4mm IC



Looks like ours alright!


----------



## DaYooper

Whitigir said:


> Hopefully I can get to hear A02 and N6ii later when the opportunity present itself, just for curiosity lol


Actually, in comparison to the MAX I don't think you would gain anything other than ergonomics. The N6ii is smaller of course but the battery life is probably around the same and while they both sound very very nice I can't say one is better than the other. Take that as my opinion only which is completely pedestrian.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 11, 2021)

I really couldn’t go back to the original DAP alone after hearing it paired with C9. I feel like C9 is digging out the full potential of the DAP. N6ii + E02 sounds so mediocre compared to N6ii + E02 + C9, and this is with IEM (UM MEST/U18t).

How am I supposed to do any travel in the future with my DAP alone.  May need to carry C9 with me always.


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> I really couldn’t go back to the original DAP alone after hearing it paired with C9. I feel like C9 is digging out the full potential of the DAP. N6ii + E02 sounds so mediocre compared to N6ii + E02 + C9, and this is with IEM (UM MEST/U18t).
> 
> How am I supposed to do any travel in the future with my DAP alone.  May need to carry C9 with me always.


It will be very hard to carry the C9 portably as there are a couple issues.

1/ Dissipating heats.  If you are in SS and AB, then it is acceptable, but if you put it in the backpack, it would heat up very fast as well.  Now, if you are using Tube and class A, even just leaving it on the table, you can’t even touch it without tolerating the heat and clinching teeth’s 

2/ the interconnect  or plugs Protruding outward.  This can be fixed if you go with “L” connectors all around.

Unless you are willing to look into or customize a case that can host both the C9, the sources, with Active cooling fans that run on battery by itself, and an opening to access and browse the source....at this level of complications....


----------



## bluestorm1992

Great points! Then I think it is not a good idea to use it on-the-go. Probably just put it in a case and take it out after arriving in hotel rooms.


----------



## xand (Feb 12, 2021)

This is the case I'm getting for utopia + DX300 + C9....

Definitely not for listening on the go...




https://nanuk.com/products/nanuk-935?variant=37153345077408

I can't decide whether I should also get a focal headphone stand and also arrange for space within the foam for that... 🧐

Size indication from a random youtube video:


----------



## cheznous

Apparently none available in UK until March earliest. C9 as rare as PS5 it seems.


----------



## Whitigir

cheznous said:


> Apparently none available in UK until March earliest. C9 as rare as PS5 it seems.


The first batch was very little in number, I assume after Chinese New Year, the productions return and you will start seeing more being made


----------



## Nostoi

cheznous said:


> Apparently none available in UK until March earliest. C9 as rare as PS5 it seems.


That's what I heard, too. I'm on the pre-order list and eagerly awaiting March (and hoping it won't be later).


----------



## bluestorm1992

cheznous said:


> Apparently none available in UK until March earliest. C9 as rare as PS5 it seems.


Consider ordering from Musicteck and ship it to EU? A lot of people have done that before.


----------



## xand (Feb 12, 2021)

Added some feet... 

These:


----------



## lumdicks

xand said:


> Added some feet...
> 
> These:






What an coincidence, I also gave my C9 some height as well!


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 12, 2021)

xand said:


> Added some feet...
> 
> These:


You should use Sorbothane, pick the size you want
https://www.amazon.com/Sorbothane-N...eywords=sorbothane+feet&qid=1613141762&sr=8-3


----------



## Nostoi

bluestorm1992 said:


> Consider ordering from Musicteck and ship it to EU? A lot of people have done that before.


I ordered from Musicteck before - Andrew is excellent to deal with and the price was good, but I got hit with a hefty customs tax fee in Austria. Other Euro members might have better luck, though, depending on their country.


----------



## KickAssChewGum

Whitigir said:


> For 18650 purposes.  I recommend this charger .  It allows 4 batteries, and has the ability to charge many others, but most importantly is to “Match the Internal resistances” of your batteries.  I may have a habit of matching stuff from my own DIY building and even tubes amp....so I always jump in for “matching stats”.  This feature is awesome and easy to use
> 
> I am using 4 matching of 22mOhms Internal resistances .  These will change as the batteries aged down, but at least they should be matched and staying in the range lol
> https://www.orbtronic.com/battery-charger-21700-26650-18650-14500-li-ion-ni-mh-aa-aaa
> ...


Please keep us up to date with your findings re- batteries. Thanks!


----------



## KickAssChewGum

Nostoi said:


> I ordered from Musicteck before - Andrew is excellent to deal with and the price was good, but I got hit with a hefty customs tax fee in Austria. Other Euro members might have better luck, though, depending on their country.


Another recommend for Andrew at @MusicTeck from me too. Just ordered a Cayin 6ii plus all boards and the new UM 3DT IEMs from him. He’s literally the best I’ve encountered in the industry!


----------



## bluestorm1992

KickAssChewGum said:


> Another recommend for Andrew at @MusicTeck from me too. Just ordered a Cayin 6ii plus all boards and the new UM 3DT IEMs from him. He’s literally the best I’ve encountered in the industry!


So you will be getting A02 as well? Sweet!


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> So you will be getting A02 as well? Sweet!


I am also awaiting A02 and see if it can also pair with C9 better than Max.  Eventhough I love and love this combination, the weight is a little >_< ... heh


----------



## KickAssChewGum

bluestorm1992 said:


> So you will be getting A02 as well? Sweet!


Yes! To go with the C9.


----------



## Bosk

Whitigir said:


> Oh I am loving it! I was never into any stack as I have large speakers, desktop solutions, but as life goes on, I found myself more on the move.


RIP my speaker system that's has been collecting dust in a cupboard for years now. Now that technology allows us to listen _anywhere_ around the house or office without compromising fidelity (physical sensation of sub bass aside) it has become such an easy thing to embrace. I do sometimes miss the feeling of being viscerally overwhelmed by sheer waves of sound, but as someone who's always prioritized hearing every tiny nuance of every tiny instrument earphones & portable systems are a joy.

From a technical standpoint I guess the big advantage in terms of amplification would be not needing huge amounts of wattage to push massive drivers, making a battery-powered supply adequate. In fairness there's battery-powered speaker amps out there (IIRC Vinnie Rossi used to make them?) but I've read they lack dynamics. That's where I find something like the C9 is valuable, because even if you listen to IEMs directly out of a DAP and the dynamics seem fine, they can probably be improved substantially by adding an external amp. Pity audiophiles don't talk about dynamics more often as they're such a vital component (along with a black background) to great sound... but harder to quantify than something like soundstage width.

The other thing I've always found about having "too much" amplification is it makes you realize your DAP may be struggling to deal with complex passages, to the point where -and perhaps this is just me- you've found yourself subconsciously wincing when listening to a familiar track and you know one is coming up. That was always the big drawback of my AK380, a wimpy built-in headphone amp that would 'sag' whenever too much was happening in the music, yet sound completely dynamically-different on say girl/guitar albums where there was a lot less work for it to do. Things have come a long way, but I still don't have much faith in any DAP to deliver a cutting-edge dynamic performance using built-in amplfication alone - there simply isn't enough room for the circuitry! Full disclaimer though, I've yet to hear the DX220MAX or Kann Alpha and do recognize things are trending in the right direction. Probably less of an issue for anyone listening to all-BA earphones too.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Bosk said:


> RIP my speaker system that's has been collecting dust in a cupboard for years now. Now that technology allows us to listen _anywhere_ around the house or office without compromising fidelity (physical sensation of sub bass aside) it has become such an easy thing to embrace. I do sometimes miss the feeling of being viscerally overwhelmed by sheer waves of sound, but as someone who's always prioritized hearing every tiny nuance of every tiny instrument earphones & portable systems are a joy.
> 
> From a technical standpoint I guess the big advantage in terms of amplification would be not needing huge amounts of wattage to push massive drivers, making a battery-powered supply adequate. In fairness there's battery-powered speaker amps out there (IIRC Vinnie Rossi used to make them?) but I've read they lack dynamics. That's where I find something like the C9 is valuable, because even if you listen to IEMs directly out of a DAP and the dynamics seem fine, they can probably be improved substantially by adding an external amp. Pity audiophiles don't talk about dynamics more often as they're such a vital component (along with a black background) to great sound... but harder to quantify than something like soundstage width.
> 
> The other thing I've always found about having "too much" amplification is it makes you realize your DAP may be struggling to deal with complex passages, to the point where -and perhaps this is just me- you've found yourself subconsciously wincing when listening to a familiar track and you know one is coming up. That was always the big drawback of my AK380, a wimpy built-in headphone amp that would 'sag' whenever too much was happening in the music, yet sound completely dynamically-different on say girl/guitar albums where there was a lot less work for it to do. Things have come a long way, but I still don't have much faith in any DAP to deliver a cutting-edge dynamic performance using built-in amplfication alone - there simply isn't enough room for the circuitry! Full disclaimer though, I've yet to hear the DX220MAX or Kann Alpha and do recognize things are trending in the right direction. Probably less of an issue for anyone listening to all-BA earphones too.


Couldn’t agree more. Before getting C9 I have been listening under the assumption that TOTL DAPs should mostly likely have competent Amps, at least for IEMs. It was after getting C9 that I realized how much these DAPs are limited by their Amp section.

The improvement from C9 is far greater than what I expected. For example, the SE output from Lotoo PAW Gold has long been considered as one of the industry gold standards, even triumphing the SE from LPGT. I was surprised how much the improvement can be after pairing LPG with C9.


----------



## Bosk

bluestorm1992 said:


> Couldn’t agree more. Before getting C9 I have been listening under the assumption that TOTL DAPs should mostly likely have competent Amps, at least for IEMs. It was after getting C9 that I realized how much these DAPs are limited by their Amp section.
> 
> The improvement from C9 is far greater than what I expected. For example, the SE output from Lotoo PAW Gold has long been considered as one of the industry gold standards, even triumphing the SE from LPGT. I was surprised how much the improvement can be after pairing LPG with C9.


I've no doubt you're absolutely right about the C9. In fact it wouldn't surprise me to learn some TOTL desktop amps can push IEMs even further than it can. I think people assume because they're so small IEMs won't keep scaling with better sources & amps but I suspect one could spend many thousands on desktop electronics and hear their performance increase. Of course by that stage it may make more sense to simply plug in a TOTL headphone, which may be why most people wouldn't think to try it.

This could also explain why BA-based earphones have gained so much popularity, because DAPs are much more able to extract closer-to-full performance from them. Hybrids are also popular but their DDs are mostly used for sub bass so it doesn't matter how well they're driven to the same extent. What disappoints me is seeing people spend megabucks on cables for portable systems they only use at home, knowing if they put that money towards a C9 for example they'd probably be seeing MUCH more performance. I'm not saying that as a cable skeptic, but the capability of modern DAPs has almost created a culture of amp skeptics who falsely believe DAPs are giving their IEMs all the quality juice they could possibly need.


----------



## KickAssChewGum

bluestorm1992 said:


> Couldn’t agree more. Before getting C9 I have been listening under the assumption that TOTL DAPs should mostly likely have competent Amps, at least for IEMs. It was after getting C9 that I realized how much these DAPs are limited by their Amp section.
> 
> The improvement from C9 is far greater than what I expected. For example, the SE output from Lotoo PAW Gold has long been considered as one of the industry gold standards, even triumphing the SE from LPGT. I was surprised how much the improvement can be after pairing LPG with C9.


I’m in total agreement with this. I couldn’t believe the improvement with my SP2000 plugged into the C9 and absolutely wasn’t expecting it to be anywhere near as drastic as it is. I’d go as far to say that the C9 is actually the one component that I’ve ever bought that has the most significant effect on sound (for the better). I’m massively impressed by what Cayin have achieved here. The C9 has made me a Cayin devotee for life and it’s literally the first Cayin product I’ve ever bought. I cannot recommend the C9 enough!


----------



## MarkParity

Isn't the C9 going to generate a bigger interest in the A02? It already has, based on this thread.

I wouldn't want the A02 to become a product sold for 1000's on ebay, (see latest consoles or RTX graphics cards for examples)

Cayin, any plans to make more than 500 A02's now that you have made them a non-niche product, or should I buy all the available stock and put them on ebay and retire a very rich man.


----------



## xand

MarkParity said:


> Cayin, any plans to make more than 500 A02's now that you have made them a non-niche product, or should I buy all the available stock and put them on ebay and retire a very rich man.



There's something earlier in this thread about how the current market price of two AKM 4497 (due to fire shortages)is more than the price of A02....


----------



## MarkParity

xand said:


> There's something earlier in this thread about how the current market price of two AKM 4497 (due to fire shortages)is more than the price of A02....


Digikey have them for around 40 UK£ and that's end user price, Cayin will be paying a fair bit less than that so the price has not gone crazy. (yet)


----------



## Whitigir

MarkParity said:


> Digikey have them for around 40 UK£ and that's end user price, Cayin will be paying a fair bit less than that so the price has not gone crazy. (yet)


I think it is going to be just fine, already 6 months passed or so, AKM factory just be about to get up and running again.  



Bosk said:


> RIP my speaker system that's has been collecting dust in a cupboard for years now. Now that technology allows us to listen _anywhere_ around the house or office without compromising fidelity (physical sensation of sub bass aside) it has become such an easy thing to embrace. I do sometimes miss the feeling of being viscerally overwhelmed by sheer waves of sound, but as someone who's always prioritized hearing every tiny nuance of every tiny instrument earphones & portable systems are a joy.
> 
> From a technical standpoint I guess the big advantage in terms of amplification would be not needing huge amounts of wattage to push massive drivers, making a battery-powered supply adequate. In fairness there's battery-powered speaker amps out there (IIRC Vinnie Rossi used to make them?) but I've read they lack dynamics. That's where I find something like the C9 is valuable, because even if you listen to IEMs directly out of a DAP and the dynamics seem fine, they can probably be improved substantially by adding an external amp. Pity audiophiles don't talk about dynamics more often as they're such a vital component (along with a black background) to great sound... but harder to quantify than something like soundstage width.
> 
> The other thing I've always found about having "too much" amplification is it makes you realize your DAP may be struggling to deal with complex passages, to the point where -and perhaps this is just me- you've found yourself subconsciously wincing when listening to a familiar track and you know one is coming up. That was always the big drawback of my AK380, a wimpy built-in headphone amp that would 'sag' whenever too much was happening in the music, yet sound completely dynamically-different on say girl/guitar albums where there was a lot less work for it to do. Things have come a long way, but I still don't have much faith in any DAP to deliver a cutting-edge dynamic performance using built-in amplfication alone - there simply isn't enough room for the circuitry! Full disclaimer though, I've yet to hear the DX220MAX or Kann Alpha and do recognize things are trending in the right direction. Probably less of an issue for anyone listening to all-BA earphones too.


Even as good as Max, the C9 elevates the sound performances and that I have to stack it up now.  Previously, I wasn’t about to stack anything really, either staying DAP or swing a desktop, and speakers.  Until now with C9 and I can’t go without C9.  Therefore, a quality Line out is important to me.  Yes, Max by far has the best Line out there is and the synergies is like “perfectly made” for one another.

Since C9 is so good, and while I didn’t like the N8 before, now I suddenly have interests in Cayin, and hope that A02 may be able to shave down some weight while having a different sound signatures but compliment the Max as a Line out source....or May be just for curiosity lol!!!

Why is A02 limited at 386Khz and DSD256 though ?


----------



## cheznous

Nostoi said:


> I ordered from Musicteck before - Andrew is excellent to deal with and the price was good, but I got hit with a hefty customs tax fee in Austria. Other Euro members might have better luck, though, depending on their country.


Problem is that would add about 500 pounds once you add VAT any duty and current exchange rate. Nearer 2,000 pounds as opposed to 1,500 pounds.


----------



## Whitigir

cheznous said:


> Problem is that would add about 500 pounds once you add VAT any duty and current exchange rate. Nearer 2,000 pounds as opposed to 1,500 pounds.


I thought your dog has Korg tubes for eyes (in the avatar) lol! why don’t you wait a few weeks for new stocks in EU ? It would be time to look for cases and interconnect or so ?


----------



## xand

lumdicks said:


> What an coincidence, I also gave my C9 some height as well!



OOH. What are those TAOC feet?



Whitigir said:


> You should use Sorbothane, pick the size you want



Not some "proper" isolating feet, like maybe from TAOC if @lumdicks describes them? 


Bosk said:


> RIP my speaker system that's has been collecting dust in a cupboard for years now.



Omg. Your cupboards must be huge. 



Whitigir said:


> Even as good as Max, the C9 elevates the sound performances and that I have to stack it up now.



Absolutely! SO NOICE. 



Whitigir said:


> Why is A02 limited at 386Khz and DSD256 though ?



Actually this is a good question. That's not true of other Dual AK4497EQ DAPs, e.g. Hiby R8. 

If I had to guess, this is a function of the FPGA or USB chip in the N6ii (which isn't affected by motherboard).


----------



## lumdicks (Feb 13, 2021)

xand said:


> OOH. What are those TAOC feet?


It is a spike isolator from TAOC made of high carbon cast iron. Some idle stuff from my home audio setup.


----------



## gordec

Anyone tried the 4.4 LO of M15? I'm thinking about getting the C9 but don't want to go through the process of switching DAP.


----------



## Whitigir

gordec said:


> Anyone tried the 4.4 LO of M15? I'm thinking about getting the C9 but don't want to go through the process of switching DAP.


Then what would you do if the C9 improves the M15 , and also there are better line out source that can bring the C9 further but it isn’t the M15 ?


----------



## xand (Feb 13, 2021)

lumdicks said:


> It is a spike isolator from TAOC made of high carbon cast iron. Some idle stuff from my home audio setup.



Urgh - thanks and it looks awesome, sadly I don't think I can face the price lol.



Whitigir said:


> Then what would you do if the C9 improves the M15 , and also there are better line out source that can bring the C9 further but it isn’t the M15 ?



Personal, I'm probably not going to change anything hopefully for 3 years... Except maybe a DX300 amp module which is designed to give 4.4v LO, and has a separate, 4.4mm phone out.


----------



## bluestorm1992

gordec said:


> Anyone tried the 4.4 LO of M15? I'm thinking about getting the C9 but don't want to go through the process of switching DAP.


Although I no longer have M15 with me, I will tend to say that M15 should be a pretty good pairing with C9. 

In my memory, M15 had really good “analytical” ability in presenting the music, but it could become too “plain” and “boring” with some IEMs. C9 should help with improving both the sound signature as well as further extending its overall performance.


----------



## Whitigir

I don’t think M15 has true line out as I can’t even find it specifications.  But I could be wrong


----------



## FooFighter

Hi folks 
Any synergy experience with Denon Ah D9200 and Andromeda Gold?
Regarding the latter output impedance is a matter (8ohm sounding best at around 0,4 ohm amp-output balanced), hissing  very prominent?
Thx!


----------



## KickAssChewGum

Hey @Andykong, I’m keen to buy an additional set of batteries with spare charging tray for my C9. How can I do this?

Many thanks in advance!


----------



## Whitigir

KickAssChewGum said:


> Hey @Andykong, I’m keen to buy an additional set of batteries with spare charging tray for my C9. How can I do this?
> 
> Many thanks in advance!


I checked with MusicTeck previously, I don’t think battery tray will be available until March sometimes .  For now, best you can do is buying additional batteries and swap them


----------



## eskamobob1

I havent read the entire thread, but has max continuous current ever been mentioned? I know this isnt aimed at high ohmage cans like HD800S from a few pages ago, but I cant seem to find much talk on how this is for tough planars like Arya, Diana, and (long shot here, lol) Susvara


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 13, 2021)

eskamobob1 said:


> I havent read the entire thread, but has max continuous current ever been mentioned? I know this isnt aimed at high ohmage cans like HD800S from a few pages ago, but I cant seem to find much talk on how this is for tough planars like Arya, Diana, and (long shot here, lol) Susvara


Nah, Max can barely drive HD800S, and with an amplifier as C9, I can explore it DAC performances better while the amp provide driving power.  I doubt there is any DAP that can “Properly” drive hard to drive headphones Yet.... Unless you can compromise, and exactly howmuch you can compromise is going to be your own to judge, give it a listen and see ?


----------



## eskamobob1

Whitigir said:


> Nah, Max can barely drive HD800S, and with an amplifier as C9, I can explore it DAC performances better while the amp provide driving power.  I doubt there is any DAP that can “Properly” drive hard to drive headphones Yet.... Unless you can compromise, and exactly howmuch you can compromise is going to be your own to judge, give it a listen and see ?



I'm sorry if my comment wasn't clear. I dont expect it to run them to a desktop (say ahb2) level. My question is just, since this isn't aimed at high impedence dynamics and the batteries have a 1/2C discharge of dozens of amps, does it perform better than other portable amps currently on the market for hard to drive planars?

Edit: I would love to demo it tbf, but I can't find any place to do such in socal


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 13, 2021)

eskamobob1 said:


> I havent read the entire thread, but has max continuous current ever been mentioned? I know this isnt aimed at high ohmage cans like HD800S from a few pages ago, but I cant seem to find much talk on how this is for tough planars like Arya, Diana, and (long shot here, lol) Susvara


It works quite well with my Diana V2. I will post some thoughts latter.


----------



## Whitigir

eskamobob1 said:


> I'm sorry if my comment wasn't clear. I dont expect it to run them to a desktop (say ahb2) level. My question is just, since this isn't aimed at high impedence dynamics and the batteries have a 1/2C discharge of dozens of amps, does it perform better than other portable amps currently on the market for hard to drive planars?
> 
> Edit: I would love to demo it tbf, but I can't find any place to do such in socal



my bad, I thought you were asking about the MAX player!
The C9 drives HD800S beautifully and only %10 less than a very powerful mini dynalo desktop.  _I am happy to just sell the desktop and stick with C9.
_


----------



## eskamobob1

Whitigir said:


> my bad, I thought you were asking about the MAX player!
> The C9 drives HD800S beautifully and only %10 less than a very powerful mini dynalo desktop.  _I am happy to just sell the desktop and stick with C9.
> _


No worries. Have you run any more demanding planars on it? Being able to run a diana properly on a transportable is kind of a dream of mine


----------



## Whitigir

eskamobob1 said:


> No worries. Have you run any more demanding planars on it? Being able to run a diana properly on a transportable is kind of a dream of mine


That I have not, I think you should ask @bluestorm1992 more about this pairing


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 13, 2021)

So regarding batteries, and place to purchase from.  There are 3 vendors that ship very quickly

1/ https://www.imrbatteries.com/
2/ https://www.orbtronic.com/
3/ https://www.batteryjunction.com/

I totally recommend #1 and #2.  Batteries comes with cases, nicely packed, and cases are very durable

#3 on the list packs the batteries very lightly and some what careless, the cases are not durable and got damaged over the shipping.  *The batteries itself also has dents in it*, and the Internal resistances of 4 out of 12 has high internal resistances, typically 15mOhm but these 4 have 75-95mOhms.  No new batteries should have higher than 100mOhms btw and these numbers are ways too close to that


----------



## eskamobob1

Whitigir said:


> So regarding batteries, and place to purchase from.  There are 3 vendors that ship very quickly
> 
> 1/ https://www.imrbatteries.com/
> 2/ https://www.orbtronic.com/
> ...



Oof. Yah. Avoid battery junction. They are a larger scale supplier (not direct juncture scale, but lots of startups use them due to their massive supplies of well liked cells) and they have *massive* reject rates. I'm talking we used them at work for a 5k cell pack and had an almost 40% rejection rate with a 2% rejection rate for fully blown PTC (as in complete open circuit, dead battery, likely already thermaly failed to even blow the PTC in the first place). I pretyy highly suspect they sell "b-stock" (if I'm being kind)


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 13, 2021)

eskamobob1 said:


> Oof. Yah. Avoid battery junction. They are a larger scale supplier (not direct juncture scale, but lots of startups use them due to their massive supplies of well liked cells) and they have *massive* reject rates. I'm talking we used them at work for a 5k cell pack and had an almost 40% rejection rate with a 2% rejection rate for fully blown PTC (as in complete open circuit, dead battery, likely already thermaly failed to even blow the PTC in the first place). I pretyy highly suspect they sell "b-stock" (if I'm being kind)


They should change name to battery Junks LoL. 2 out of 12 has big dents and 4 out of 12 has too high IR.  So that is like 50% bad!!!


----------



## eskamobob1

Whitigir said:


> That I have not, I think you should ask @bluestorm1992 more about this pairing





bluestorm1992 said:


> It works quite well with my Diana V2. I will post some thoughts latter.




I look forward to it! Any chance you have the BX2+ to compair against btw? Know thats a long shot but figure its worth an ask.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 13, 2021)

*Cayin C9 - TOTL IEM/Headphone Portable Tube/Solid-State (SS) Amplifier Review (1/2)*

This is going to be a long review so I will break it into two parts: The first for C9's functionality and general performance (this post), and the second for its specific pairing with my various gears.

I think it will also be useful that I open this review by giving my conclusion of C9. It is a truly TOTL amplifier for IEMs and headphones. It has the ability to bring any DAPs one or two levels up in their performance. This is true not just for mid-tier DAPs, but even for TOTL DAPs like Lotoo PAW Gold and AK SP2000. The improvement is comprehensive. With it, the sound opens up, the veil is lifted, and the performance of both the DAP and the IEM is brought to their full potentials.

In general, I consider the combo of a decent DAP + C9 to be *at least* at the level of Hugo 2, which I considered as the king in driving IEMs.



*Some Background Info of Portable Amps*

_If you are quite familiar with portable amplifiers, please feel free to skip this section._

So what is a portable amp, and why do I need it? A portable amp is something that can be connected with your DAP (or any source component) to further enhance its performance. In a super general level, you can consider any DAP as doing two jobs simultaneous: (1) it has the DAC portion that helps to decode the music; (2) it has the Amp portion that takes the input from the DAC portion, amplifiers the input, and then delivers it as the output from the DAP.

Most modern DAPs have the line-out function which, if it works as intended, will bypass the Amp portion of the DAP and only outputs the signals from its DAC. With this function, the DAP can be connected with a dedicated amplifier to achieve a performance upgrade. C9 is such a dedicated amplifier. In principle, an additional, dedicated Amp should do a much better job in taking up the Amp job: It has an independent power supply, better components/circuit design, and potentially better functionalities.

*General Introduction of C9*

I want to start with a simple personal experience in my journey of DAPs. Back in the days, I got my first DAP from Lotoo: LP6K.  I really like its functionality and sound signature. However, I find that it could not really drive my LCD-i4 or IER-Z1R very well. So I thought, OK, let me upgrade the DAP to get better performance out of the two IEMs. I then sold the LP6K and got the LPGT. LPGT did have better performance and I was quite happy with it for a while, but I still have the feeling that there is still room for improvement. I then continue my journal of searching, go through a couple of other DAPs, and eventually come to Hugo 2 which I am finally happy with its performance in driving virtually any IEMs I have.

Does this experience sound familiar to some of you? I think a lot of people have had similar experiences. When C9 came out, I in fact don't really need it as I am quite satisfied with Hugo 2. But I keep thinking this: If C9 were available back in the days when I wanted to upgrade LP6K, maybe all I needed was to buy a C9. No more need for DAPs exploring, and I get to keep my favorite Lotoo sound signature. So, I bought the C9, and I am happy to report that it not only does such a job, but it accomplishes it extremely well.


*Functionality*

C9 is a tube/solid-state dual-mode portable amplifier. Besides these two modes, it has two classes as well: A and AB. Just from this, you can see that C9 gives you a lot of different sound signatures to explore. It takes both 3.5mm and 4.4mm input and outputs in both 3.5mm and 4.4mm - so again very flexible in how you want to connect your DAPs and IEMs/headphones to it.

An additional interesting point is that, unlike many portable amps that only take line-in signals, C9 can also take pre-amp signals. Its pre-amp mode is designed when your DAP does not really have a line-out function. In that case, you can simply use the regular headphone output and connect that with C9. C9 will then serve as a "power amp" that dramatically increases the power of the signals from your DAP. Unlike the regular line-in mode, where C9 takes up most of the job of delivering the sound signature of the output, in pre-mode the signature of the DAP is mostly preserved. This is ideal for DAPs like WM1Z, which has an excellent sound signature but has been known for its relatively weak output (in today's view). Then, the pre mode of C9 allows you to preserve the sound signature of the 1Z, but gives it a lot of power.

When I say C9 has a lot of power, don't worry, it works very well with sensitive IEMs. In fact, C9 is designed with such a goal in mind. In its low gain mode, C9 works well with virtually any IEMs. In its high gain mode, you get huge power that is enough to drive planars like Abyss Diana V2.


*Performance*

Here I am going to give an overview of C9's sound performance. Its pairing with my specific gears will be covered in the second part of the review (in a later, separate post). My source gears for this review include Cayin N6ii (E02/A02, both in line-out), Lotoo PAW Gold (line-out), and Hugo 2. My IEMs are Fir M5, UM Mest (with Iliad), and 64 U18t (with Socrates).



In its solid-state mode, I think the best term I can use to describe C9's performance is that it helps to *reveal *the music. With it, the sound is cleaner, the imaging and placing improve dramatically; you hear ALL the details of the music but in a nice and not "all in your face" manner. I think this is what impresses me the most. Different DAPs/sources I currently own could have different weaknesses in their sound. What C9 does (in line-in mode) is that it "reorganizes" the music and produces a well-rounded, comprehensive presentation of the music. I generally feel like the music coming out of C9 is what the music producers want it to be, and it is no longer limited by my DAPs.

In terms of general IEM pairing, it works really well with the three IEMs I own. I am happy to report that C9 does *not* work like Hugo 2 in giving a dominant sound signature such that different IEMs sound more or less the same (although in a good way). Instead, it helps to preserve the signature of the IEM rather well but pushes them to their full potential.

Meanwhile, I would say C9 does add some coloring to the music. I would say its signature is between LPG (which is extremely neutral IMO) and Hugo 2 (which is lush and pleasing). In SS mode it gets closer to the neutral end, and with tube mode, it gets closer to the lush/coloring end. I haven't had the time to compare Class A and Class AB. I mostly just go with Class A because it is my favorite, and it sounds fantastic. I did briefly try Class AB and it sounds almost as good, but it seems a bit softer to my ears than Class A.

*Detailed Pairing with DAPs and IEM/Headphone*

To be continued in a follow-up review post.

*Short Conclusion*

In my own experience, C9 is the single biggest improvement I have brought to my system. Before getting C9 I have been listening under the assumption that TOTL DAPs should most likely have competent Amps, at least for IEMs. It was after getting C9 that I realized how much these DAPs are limited by their Amp section. I also want to quote the feedback from @KickAssChewGum which I totally agree with.

"I’m in total agreement with this. I couldn’t believe the improvement with my SP2000 plugged into the C9 and absolutely wasn’t expecting it to be anywhere near as drastic as it is. I’d go as far to say that the C9 is actually the one component that I’ve ever bought that has the most significant effect on sound (for the better). I’m massively impressed by what Cayin have achieved here. The C9 has made me a Cayin devotee for life and it’s literally the first Cayin product I’ve ever bought. I cannot recommend the C9 enough!"

To me, if you are quite happy with your current DAP, but want to upgrade your listening experience, C9 is an excellent choice. You get to keep what you enjoy with your existing DAP, such as its functionality and sound signature; meanwhile, C9 helps you to transform it into a world-class listening system. You also benefit from the great versatility of C9 for its various modes and sound signatures - You can always find one that suits your need, and you will never get bored,



Finally, I am really pleased that Cayin builds C9 with the goal that it is built to last. The VP of Cayin said that Cayin wants C9 to last for 5-10 years. In this process, the technology, especially the functionality of DAPs, will likely evolve quite dramatically. Think about what we had 3 years ago for the Andriod DAPs and the DAPs we have today like DX300, R8 that are at the same level in system functionality as flagship smartphones. So, when you are upgrading your DAPs in the future, with C9 you don't have to go from one flagship to another flagship. You can simply focus on getting the one that has the best functionality and suits your daily needs, and be confident with the fact that when paired with C9, it will always bring you a world-class music experience. C9 has really solid built, removable batteries for easy replacement and future upgrades, and TOTL sound performance. If you have the chance in the coming months, I will strongly recommend to reach out to your local dealers and request a demo unit to try it out yourself. I am sure that a lot of you will be pleasantly surprised by how the C9 can help you bring your current favorite DAPs to the next level.


----------



## aaf evo

bluestorm1992 said:


> *Cayin C9 - TOTL IEM/Headphone Portable Tube/Solid-State (SS) Amplifier Review (1/2)*
> 
> This is going to be a long review so I will break it into two parts: The first for C9's functionality and general performance (this post), and the second for its specific pairing with my various gears.
> 
> ...



As I just said in Raz’s thread, I am still on the fence with the C9 but I think this may push me over the edge. Wouldn’t mind using it as a “desktop” type setup for when I am doing stationary listening at home.


----------



## KickAssChewGum

bluestorm1992 said:


> *Cayin C9 - TOTL IEM/Headphone Portable Tube/Solid-State (SS) Amplifier Review (1/2)*
> 
> This is going to be a long review so I will break it into two parts: The first for C9's functionality and general performance (this post), and the second for its specific pairing with my various gears.
> 
> ...


Great part 1 write-up @bluestorm1992 ! I look forward to part 2.


----------



## KickAssChewGum

aaf evo said:


> As I just said in Raz’s thread, I am still on the fence with the C9 but I think this may push me over the edge. Wouldn’t mind using it as a “desktop” type setup for when I am doing stationary listening at home.


Go for it! I’ve never made such an easy recommendation. I was also on the fence and bought it on a momentary whim. So glad I did!


----------



## Bosk

bluestorm1992 said:


> *Cayin C9 - TOTL IEM/Headphone Portable Tube/Solid-State (SS) Amplifier Review (1/2)*
> 
> This is going to be a long review so I will break it into two parts: The first for C9's functionality and general performance (this post), and the second for its specific pairing with my various gears.
> 
> ...


Great review! You've described the C9 sounding much as I'd expect it to. Quality amplification gives music a sense of ease & effortlessness yet you hear _everything_ without having to strain in the slightest, the soundstage is more solid & congealed and notes appear out of inky blackness, stunning you with their bite, precision and absence of metallic ringing that's only noticed once its gone. 

When I listen straight out of a DAP I struggle to remain engaged throughout an entire song, but with proper amplification music becomes an _event _and I struggle to focus on anything else. How do you know when you have a REALLY good system? When the music can literally move you to tears. Yet comically, you may even feel a spontaneous urge to applaud after a wonderful song is played, such is the deep emotional level on which your system allows you to connect with the performers. 

It sounds like you made a great purchase in the C9, you also have some really nice gear in your collection. Happy listening!


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 13, 2021)

Oh well. These 20S is supposedly Samsung most powerful, also as industrial leading cells.  It has a sustainable continuous discharge rate of 35A.  Buttt....

it doesn’t sound anything like that, it did sound like the Sanyo 3500mAh which I recommend to avoid before

I would say Avoid Samsung 20S

So, from all of my experiences, I highly recommend Orbtronic as a vendor

This one has the best sub bass, good Punches, slower transient which is very tube like, black back ground, great density all around (My favorite and best pick)
https://www.orbtronic.com/3500mah-18650-imr-battery-high-drain-rechargeable-orbtronic-li-ion

This one is similar to the Stock Sony VTC6, except with very slightly less meaty punches, but it has more of a solid state transient speed which is a little faster than the Sony

https://www.orbtronic.com/40a-18650-3120mah-button-top-battery-high-drain

Then finally we have the Sony stock here, which is fairly neutral with good density, speedy bass and excellent Punches.  The Orb-3120 is so close to the VCT-6 depends on personal preferences 
_I have to give Cayin extra credits for this, at least it isn’t easy to outperform Stock battery of choice.  This means Cayin had gone extra miles here and there to finalize the C9_

https://www.orbtronic.com/sony-vtc6-18650-battery-flat-top


----------



## Bosk

Whitigir said:


> Oh well. These 20S is supposedly Samsung most powerful, also as industrial leading cells.  It has a sustainable continuous discharge rate of 35A.  Buttt....
> 
> it doesn’t sound anything like that, it did sound like the Sanyo 3500mAh which I recommend to avoid before
> 
> ...


Those are really interesting findings! 

Is it really true that the brand/type of a battery can affect the performance of an amp circuit? I always assumed that without ripple & other AC noise/junk a battery was a battery so far as audio circuits are concerned and what really mattered was the quality of the voltage regulation after it... but it sounds like there's more to it than that. How pronounced are the sonic differences between those batteries?


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 13, 2021)

Bosk said:


> Those are really interesting findings!
> 
> Is it really true that the brand/type of a battery can affect the performance of an amp circuit? I always assumed that without ripple & other AC noise/junk a battery was a battery so far as audio circuits are concerned and what really mattered was the quality of the voltage regulation after it... but it sounds like there's more to it than that. How pronounced are the sonic differences between those batteries?


Yes, battery do affect the sound, you can try it out and see.  The differences are more than or equally to swapping out capacitors or changing an Opamp in a circuit lol!! If that makes any senses.
Cayin also states that details out as well, batteries will effect sound performances. That was why I purchased different set of batteries to test out.

I did contact Cayin and had some suggestions to look for High CDR and low internal resistant as guides.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> Yes, battery do affect the sound, you can try it out and see.  The differences are more than or equally to swapping out capacitors or changing an Opamp in a circuit lol!! If that makes any senses.


Fortunately, the batteries are generally not as expensive as Op Amps. I got 4 18650 LG batteries for $30 in total to be used with my Broadway as I recall.


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> Fortunately, the batteries are generally not as expensive as Op Amps. I got 4 18650 LG batteries for $30 in total to be used with my Broadway as I recall.


I would think the majority of OpAmps are cheaper, the expensive parts are the Discrete OpAmps upgrades ... or the soldering works to perform SMD swap, implant sockets to swap OpAmps 
These batteries are more fun to swap and roll with


----------



## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> I would think the majority of OpAmps are cheaper, the expensive parts are the Discrete OpAmps upgrades ... or the soldering works to perform SMD swap, implant sockets to swap OpAmps
> These batteries are more fun to swap and roll with


A pair of Burson or Sparkos dual Op Amp can easily costs $150.


----------



## Kiats (Feb 13, 2021)

@bluestorm1992 : thanks for the insightful review. And lovely Eletech cables. Eric does sterling work. 
Quick Q: how do you connect the Sony 1Z to the C9 - PO? Thanks!


----------



## bluestorm1992

Kiats said:


> @bluestorm1992 : thanks for the insightful review. And lovely Eletech cables. Eric does sterling work.
> Quick Q: how do you connect the SP2000 to the C9 - LO or PO? Thanks!


Thanks for your kind words! @KickAssChewGum knows more about the proper connection between SP2000 and C9.


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> A pair of Burson or Sparkos dual Op Amp can easily costs $150.


Definitely! Because those are discrete op-Amp


----------



## hmscott (Feb 15, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> Oh well. These 20S is supposedly Samsung most powerful, also as industrial leading cells.  It has a sustainable continuous discharge rate of 35A.  Buttt....
> 
> it doesn’t sound anything like that, it did sound like the Sanyo 3500mAh which I recommend to avoid before
> 
> ...


These are the Orbtronic 18650's I use daily:

*PANASONIC ORBTRONIC
18650 3500mAh Battery Protected Li-ion 3.7V Rechargeable High Performance 10A (Panasonic-Sanyo inside) Free Battery Case Included - $13.99*
https://www.orbtronic.com/18650-protected-battery-3500mah-lithium-ion

*Those ^^ specs look a lot like the Orbtronic 18650 model you show in the photo:

PANASONIC ORBTRONIC
3500mAh 18650 High Drain Hybrid IMR Rechargeable Battery 3.7V Flat Top Orbtronic - $10.75*
https://www.orbtronic.com/3500mah-18650-imr-battery-high-drain-rechargeable-orbtronic-li-ion

*IDK how those protection circuits would affect the sound...or if they would fit the same...the protection circuits and button tops add length, that's why I try to get the flat tops with protection circuits.

I do suggest the lithium ion batteries with extra protection built in to prevent battery fires and ruined batteries due to over-discharge and overheating:

Protection*:
Overcharge (Activated at 4.35V)
Over-discharge (Activated at 2.4V-2.5V)
Overcurrent (Activated at 10A)
Overheating, and dual short circuit protection (External, and Internal).

*For example*:
PROTECTED 3600mAh 18650 rechargeable battery Li-ion Orbtronic 3.7V (Panasonic inside).
Resettable Protection: Over-current (Activated at 10A), Over-charge (Activated at 4.29V) - Over-discharge (Activated at 2.4V-2.5V) - El. short circuit protection. Protection electronic circuit designed by Seiko. ICs made in Japan.
Best battery for High Power flashlight users, or for anyone who is looking for the longest run time.
Orbtronic 18650 battery is very safe to operate. This 18650 Li-ion protected cell will automatically cut off current flow if any of the following occur: Short circuit (dead short) - Extreme temperature, Abnormally high current, Overvoltage, Overcharge, Over-discharge.

*I was going to reorder those 3600mah 18650's I also use daily, but they are currently out of stock: *_*[Back in stock 2/15/2021]*_

*PANASONIC ORBTRONIC
3600mAh 18650 Battery Protected Li-ion Orbtronic (Panasonic inside) 3.7V Rechargeable Cell - For High Performance Flashlights - Dual Protection - $14.99*
https://www.orbtronic.com/3600mah-18650-li-ion-orbtronic-panasonic-rechargeable-battery

It would be nice if makers would start using the new 21700's, they are slim like the 18650 but hold 5000mah+ like the physically much bigger 26650's.  I have a few flashlights that use the 21700, but so far no other electronics I've seen use them.  21700 4x5000mah would be a nice bump up from 18650 4x3600mah 

We all live off of the batteries used by the big electric car companies - 18650->26650-> and the new Tesla 4860 (48600) cells are just a bit too big for pocketable portables, but great for big battery banks to recharge the C9 on the road.


----------



## KickAssChewGum

bluestorm1992 said:


> Thanks for your kind words! @KickAssChewGum knows more about the proper connection between SP2000 and C9.


Hey @Kiats i noticed that you edited your initial question to change it to the Sony rather than AK. Unfortunately I don’t have any experience with the Sony but do let me know if you still need any SP2000 connection advice and I’d be pleased to help.


----------



## michaelc

@bluestorm1992 nice review
Worth to add in C9 in between Hugo and ier-z1r?
Appreciate your opinion


----------



## Kiats

KickAssChewGum said:


> Hey @Kiats i noticed that you edited your initial question to change it to the Sony rather than AK. Unfortunately I don’t have any experience with the Sony but do let me know if you still need any SP2000 connection advice and I’d be pleased to help.



Haha! I wanted to ask both. I am terrible at editing. Yes, please. I would love to hear about SP2000 or SP1000 connections - the C9 would help me solve the issue of lack of power in all my older DAPs. Excellent but underpowered. Thanks @KickAssChewGum 🙏


----------



## bluestorm1992

michaelc said:


> @bluestorm1992 nice review
> Worth to add in C9 in between Hugo and ier-z1r?
> Appreciate your opinion


Thanks for your kind words. 

I plan to discuss this in my review part #2. My short conclusion is you will gain very little if you only use IEMs. I don’t own Z1R ATM but I believe Hugo 2 should still be sufficient. If your use case includes high impedance/ low sensitivity headphones, then C9 will benefit you quite a lot as Hugo 2 does not really have the power for those.


----------



## hmscott

bluestorm1992 said:


> Thanks for your kind words.
> 
> I plan to discuss this in my review part #2. My short conclusion is you will gain very little if you only use IEMs. I don’t own Z1R ATM but I believe Hugo 2 should still be sufficient. If your use case includes high impedance/ low sensitivity headphones, then C9 will benefit you quite a lot as Hugo 2 does not really have the power for those.


@bluestorm1992 - I would be most interested in the C9 performance with 600 ohm headphone, or hard to drive Planar Magnetics like the Hifiman HE6SE V2.


----------



## eskamobob1

hmscott said:


> @bluestorm1992 - I would be most interested in the C9 performance with 600 ohm headphone, or hard to drive Planar Magnetics like the Hifiman HE6SE V2.



6se is crazy crazy tough to drive, but he said he would post his thoughts on Diana's in pt2. As for the 600ohm, it was discussed earlier that unfortunately that was just outside of the designed load capacity, so while it will work, it won't be the best


----------



## hmscott (Feb 14, 2021)

eskamobob1 said:


> 6se is crazy crazy tough to drive, but he said he would post his thoughts on Diana's in pt2. As for the 600ohm, it was discussed earlier that unfortunately that was just outside of the designed load capacity, so while it will work, it won't be the best


I've been waiting for someone with a production unit to give a customer test review before giving up on the C9 altogether.  If not @bluestorm1992 then another customer with a production unit may be able to give us some insight as to how the C9 sounds with 600 ohm headphones, or hard to drive Planar Magnetic Headphones.

My Topping A90 can drive the HE6SE V2 at High Gain + 12 o'clock on the volume dial, and my Xduoo TA-20 at 85 out of 95 on the volume dial sounds much better - even though the A90 should be able to deliver more power the TA-20 sounds more full and forceful.

I'm waiting for a new custom cable 4.4mm to try my HE6SE V2 on my FiiO M15, which should do ok as my M15 drives my 600 ohm headphones with the "Over the Ear" setting enabled.

I would be surprised if the C9 can't out-do the FiiO M15's driving power...

And, I'd rather hear how actual customers find the C9 power delivery works with their headphones than judge the production C9 on pre-production tests.


----------



## eskamobob1 (Feb 14, 2021)

hmscott said:


> I've been waiting for someone with a production unit to give a customer test review before giving up on the C9 altogether.  If not @bluestorm1992 then another customer with a production unit may be able to give us some insight as to how it sounds.
> 
> My Topping A90 can drive the HE6SE V2 at High Gain + 12 o'clock on the volume dial, and my Xduoo TA-20 at 85 out of 96 on the volume dial sounds much better - even though the A90 should be able to deliver more power the TA-20 sounds more full and forceful.
> 
> ...



I wish it were as simple as that but unfortunately you just can't compair high impedence headphone with low impedence ones. They need different things (namely high impedence need voltage and low impedence need current). The HE6SE is 50 ohm at 83 db/mw. To be save with enough overhead, you are looking something like 5W @ 50 0hm. The c9 is a fraction of that. Hell, even the most powerful portable is only a fraction of that. The issue here all comes down to current limits. If the cayin rating is continuous power we may actualy be in a good shape, but if its true max powrr like normal I dont think we are even close

Edit: to put this into perspective. While the dt880 600ohm and HE6SE need similar voltage to reach the same SPL, at 120db, the DT880 pulls 22mA while the HE6SE pulls 300mA


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 14, 2021)

hmscott said:


> These are the Orbtronic 18650's I use daily:
> 
> *PANASONIC ORBTRONIC
> 18650 3500mAh Battery Protected Li-ion 3.7V Rechargeable High Performance 10A (Panasonic-Sanyo inside) Free Battery Case Included - $13.99*
> ...


I have a hard time fitting the button tops unprotected cells in the tray, and they are 67mm length at Max.  Flat top version of protected cells are at least 68.5mm *(Have you tried fitting protected cell yet?) *
The C9 tray has it own protection circuit built in.  So it uses Unprotected battery cells.

The differences between “Protected” and “Unprotected” cells are the Pulse currents.  This is the Burst Max current a cell can supply.  For example, the ORB-3500, the Pulse current is stated
Max Discharge capability - Pulse Current: 18A (18000mA)
You will get cut off at 10A with “protected version”.
You can find more details here
https://www.fenix-store.com/blog/wh...en-protected-and-unprotected-18650-batteries/

*Stock batteries are “unprotected”
US18650VTC6.  Because the C9 has it own protection circuits*.  For a more detailed statements on the protection circuits, I think we need to tag @Andykong here to ask whether the protected circuits on the cells can interfere and pose potential damages to the batteries management circuits on the C9 ? Or how would the Pulse currents effect the system
Using the Search function, you can see his earlier post to stated this


Andykong said:


> *The C9 use unprotected 18650 batteries.*


The hardest things about these “Unprotected cells” are the charging and safe storage of them.  Always store them in the protective cases and Always use a good charger such as
https://www.orbtronic.com/battery-charger-21700-26650-18650-14500-li-ion-ni-mh-aa-aaa


----------



## normie610 (Feb 14, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> *Cayin C9 - TOTL IEM/Headphone Portable Tube/Solid-State (SS) Amplifier Review (1/2)*
> 
> This is going to be a long review so I will break it into two parts: The first for C9's functionality and general performance (this post), and the second for its specific pairing with my various gears.
> 
> ...



Excellent write up buddy!! C9 will be on top of my list should one day I decide to build my portable system again  

Edit: just realize there’s part 2 coming, look forward to that!


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 14, 2021)

Fellow!

I just saw in Cayin’s Wechat group that the official C9 leather case will be available after CNY. The additional battery tray will be available for sale at the same time as well.


----------



## bluestorm1992

normie610 said:


> Excellent write up buddy!! C9 will be on top of my list should one day I decide to build my portable system again
> 
> Edit: just realize there’s part 2 coming, look forward to that!


Do it! Last night I was listening to my V2 with C9 and doing some comparisons with the Broadway. There are times that I honestly cannot tell the difference. C9 is really that good.


----------



## KickAssChewGum

bluestorm1992 said:


> Fellow!
> 
> I just saw in Cayin’s Wechat group that the official C9 leather case will be available after CNY. The additional battery tray will be available for sale at the same time as well.


Thanks for sharing the info. I will definitely be getting both!


----------



## normie610

bluestorm1992 said:


> Do it! Last night I was listening to my V2 with C9 and doing some comparisons with the Broadway. There are times that I honestly cannot tell the difference. C9 is really that good.



Do not tempt me to the dark side Lord Sidious!


----------



## KickAssChewGum (Feb 14, 2021)

Kiats said:


> Haha! I wanted to ask both. I am terrible at editing. Yes, please. I would love to hear about SP2000 or SP1000 connections - the C9 would help me solve the issue of lack of power in all my older DAPs. Excellent but underpowered. Thanks @KickAssChewGum 🙏


For the SP2000, I've found the best line out setting is to set it to is '3vSE/6vBAL' in the Line Out settings (Settings > Line Out > Output Options). NB you can set other voltages here too if desired. Make sure you have the latest firmware downloaded.

In the 'Line Out' Settings menu, make sure you have 'Line Out - Activate Line Out button on the Volume Panel' set to on.

Then either connect a 3.5mm interconnect between the SP2000 and the C9 (for either 1.5vSE or 3vSE) or a 4.4mm interconnect between the SP200 and the C9 using EA's AKA adapter (or equivalent) (for either 3vBLA or 6vBAL).

Then set the C9 to Line Input and whichever of the Timbre flavors you prefer. My preferred with the SP2000 and Odin would be AB/Tube but I found the MEST was better on A/Tube for my tastes. Both at Low Gain.

Finally, when starting to play a track, scroll the volume wheel a little and press the on-screen line out button. This will then output the desire line out voltage. (Be careful to keep the C9 volume to minimum until you have made this step to avoid hurting your ears/IEMs). Once the voltage displays on screen at the voltage setting you have chosen, then slowly increase the (very precise) volume control on the C9 until you reach the desired volume.

Please bear in mind that the quality of the interconnect will play a huge part in the sound you get from the combination of DAC/DAP and C9. The stock interconnect is not bad but I found the sound quality increased significantly when I used the Penon Totem 4.4mm interconnect (that is astoundingly good value at only around $80).

I hope that helps!


----------



## Kiats

KickAssChewGum said:


> For the SP2000, I've found the best line out setting is to set it to is '3vSE/6vBAL' in the Line Out settings (Settings > Line Out > Output Options). NB you can set other voltages here too if desired. Make sure you have the latest firmware downloaded.
> 
> In the 'Line Out' Settings menu, make sure you have 'Line Out - Activate Line Out button on the Volume Panel' set to on.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for the detailed notes! 🙏


----------



## Whitigir

Yes, the interconnect is very important, and especially for the C9.  Out of all of my experiences with different systems, the higher quality the devices, the more sensitive it is to the interconnect.  People can states the opposite otherwise such as “any good and properly designed devices should not be effected by the cables”, and I can tell you for sure that such person had never listened to either a high-end system or cables at all.  I can also say the same for people who thought “Oh pure gold is a bad conductor, not as good as copper, less silver”....such person had never listened to ”pure gold” as a materials


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 14, 2021)

Andykong said:


> ​
> 
> *PRE-amp vs Line input mode with maximum volume. *
> 
> When C9 operates in PRE-amp input mode, it is basically functioning as a power amplifier with volume control disable (set to 0dB attenuation) and all amplification circuit operate in full capacity. Theoretically if you use maximum volume in Line input mode and let your DAP control the volume, the signal processing will be the same as PRE-amp input mode, but my personal impression *prefers PRE-amp input mode because I get better amplification control, the sound is tight and focused, and the music is more lively*. It’s like a water supply system with 5 water taps installed in different location. Theoretically if I turn all water taps to fully open position, the water supply is in its full capacity, but will that be 100% equivalent to water supply when all water taps are removed? Ultimately, this is up to C9 users to experience the difference between the two input modes if you have an appropriate source that offer comparable Line out and Pre-out (e.g, A02, or line out/Pre out of DACs such as Cayin iDAC-6MK2)



So I have been reading up, playing around and come back at this again.  IMO, it is clear that C9 can distinct the differences between a Pseudo Line out, or a real buffered true line out.  Whether or not the maker would admit to the way they had designed their own DAP and Line Out, the C9 do have the ability to expose the differences between LO sources.

Next up is the Pre-Amp Input.  If I am not mistaken, for example, the A02 Pre-amp output is using Analog attenuations VS the C9 which is using 2 stages together.  IMO, the C9 2 stages of volume controls is very well implemented and that it permit me to use my in ears IER-Z1R as I have never heard of it before.

However, If taken the Line out into the Line In on C9, the A02 signals will have to go through the 2 stages that involves a digital attenuations VS where as when using A02 Pre-Amp out, there would be only 1 volume attenuation, and that is Analog attenuations by JRC as you stated previously in N6ii thread.  So, sticking with the less conversion is the better, I am not surprised that you prefer Pre-Amp out to take advantages of the A02 Attenuations.

I am waiting for A02 to come, and I love how Cayin is paying attentions to the Line and Pre out on A02, together with C9.  Theoretically speaking, AK4497-99EQ have digital attenuations by itself.  Some makers uses it to simplify the volume control , even on FlagShip players.  But here, Cayin does not skimp out on the proper way to control the volume while preserving the integrity of the converted signals!  Hats off to you again


----------



## eskamobob1

@Andykong I'm sorry if it was stated before since I can't find it. Are the power output specs of the C9 reported in the first post of this thread continuous power? Or peak power?


----------



## xand

bluestorm1992 said:


> Do it! Last night I was listening to my V2 with C9 and doing some comparisons with the Broadway. There are times that I honestly cannot tell the difference. C9 is really that good.



Actually I would be slightly sad if they're not within spitting distance (at least when both are battery powered) ... Unless of course you notice a huge difference between the Broadway S when battery vs mains powered...


----------



## hmscott (Feb 14, 2021)

eskamobob1 said:


> I wish it were as simple as that but unfortunately you just can't compair high impedence headphone with low impedence ones. They need different things (namely high impedence need voltage and low impedence need current). The HE6SE is 50 ohm at 83 db/mw. To be save with enough overhead, you are looking something like 5W @ 50 0hm. The c9 is a fraction of that. Hell, even the most powerful portable is only a fraction of that. The issue here all comes down to current limits. If the cayin rating is continuous power we may actualy be in a good shape, but if its true max powrr like normal I dont think we are even close
> 
> Edit: to put this into perspective. While the dt880 600ohm and HE6SE need similar voltage to reach the same SPL, at 120db, the DT880 pulls 22mA while the HE6SE pulls 300mA


See, this is a good example of how "specs" and "math" as applied theoretically don't necessarily match reality. 

My Xduoo TA-20 Tube/SS Hybrid Headphone AMP @ 32 ohm put's out 2000mW, and at 50 ohm puts out a bit less power, but the TA-20 drives the HE6SE much better than my Topping A90 that puts out 6.4w @ 32 ohms.  The sound from the TA-20 is fuller and more forceful at "rocking out" levels (85 out of 95 on volume dial).  Even at normal listening levels (65-75) the TA-20 has more filled out sound stage in comparison to the A90.

We want to listen to the end result, not just measure it.  Our ears are the best and most important measuring device as they are the end user of the result of the design effort, to provide human listening enjoyment.

The 600 ohm load and 50 ohm load have different demands to be sure, and are a good real world use case for the C9 as to how it drives those headphones.  That's what I use so that is what I need to see tested before I decide to purchase the C9 myself.

Thanks to @bluestorm1992 for his helpful assistance to those of us without a C9 (yet!?), to see if it will meet our needs too. 


eskamobob1 said:


> @Andykong I'm sorry if it was stated before since I can't find it. Are the power output specs of the C9 reported in the first post of this thread continuous power? Or peak power?


Here is what the C9 lists on the *Cayin product page*:

Fully balanced, fully discrete, 4-channels high-fidelity headphone amplifier delivers up to 4,100mW (at 16Ω) or 2600mW (at 32Ω) per channel.


----------



## hmscott (Feb 15, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> I have a hard time fitting the button tops unprotected cells in the tray, and they are 67mm length at Max.  Flat top version of protected cells are at least 68.5mm *(Have you tried fitting protected cell yet?) *
> The C9 tray has it own protection circuit built in.  So it uses Unprotected battery cells.
> 
> The differences between “Protected” and “Unprotected” cells are the Pulse currents.  This is the Burst Max current a cell can supply.  For example, the ORB-3500, the Pulse current is stated
> ...


I don't have a C9 yet, but that is why I get flat top protected batteries when I can as you are right the extra length can be a problem fitting in to some products.

That's what I was wondering, how the protection limits would affect the sound, if at all.  I would like to try protected and unprotected cells on the C9 to see how the unprotected vs protected cells current delivery affects the sound.

In general I don't want to use unprotected cells as you say when they find themselves outside of the protected device use, and need to be charged and stored safely

I use that *XTAR Dragon VP4 Plus* and the *Fenix ARE-A4* - it fits the longer 21700 cells that the VP4 Plus doesn't.

If you get a chance to try those unprotected cells in the C9 that would be great, and thank you!

I haven't seen Orbtronic offer the 18650 3600mah cells in an unprotected version...or in a flat top version, here are the physical specs from the Orbtronics website *3600mah 18650 product page*: _*[Back in stock 2/15/2021]*_

Diameter (mm): 18.6 mm (+/- 0.03mm)
Height (mm): 68.9 mm (+/- 0.03mm)
Weight (g): 47 g
In comparison here are the physical specs for the *High Drain 3500mah*:

Dimensions:
Flat Top version: 18.5mm x 65.6mm
Button Top version: 18.5mm x 66.6mm

*Update:*  IDK how far the C9 battery bay adjusts to fit cells...@ 67mm max is short of 68.9mm for the 3600mah protected cell length.  I'll ask Orbtronic if they can make a 3600mah unprotected for devices like the C9 that do their own internal protection.

@Andykong - what are the C9 battery protections?, I'm hoping not only overcharge protection but also setting an overall discharge limit as well as cell by cell balance to protect the longevity of the cells.  Is there also a temp limit on charging / discharging rate?

*Update: *Email sent to Orbtronic asking about a higher capacity unprotected battery for devices that have their own built in protection.  Devices that need high current draw.  Please DM me any additional parameters or questions you'd like me to inject next email.


Spoiler: Email sent



Hi!, I've found a product need you currently don't fill.  I buy protected cells from you and others to get flashlight protection and charging protection, but a new audiophile product the Cayin C9 has its own internal battery protection for charge / discharge - although I am not fully aware of all those protections provide.

Also, the high drain nature of high power portable audio has been found to benefit from high drain unprotected parameters vs protected - limited current drain - and so Cayin designed their new portable amp to use unprotected cells.

The highest unprotected cell that I've found Orbtronic make is this 3500mah battery:
https://www.orbtronic.com/3500mah-18650-imr-battery-high-drain-rechargeable-orbtronic-li-ion

I use the protected 3600mah model, and I don't see a 3600mah unprotected version with flat top - the Cayin C9 battery tray has a 67mm length limit, here is the protected cell I am referring to:
https://www.orbtronic.com/3600mah-18650-li-ion-orbtronic-panasonic-rechargeable-battery

Would you be interested in providing a 3600mah or higher density 18650 unprotected cell for products like the Cayin C9?

Here are some links from our current discussion on Head-Fi with Cayin representative Andrew Kong (I am hmscott there too):
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...dphone-amplifier.943135/page-78#post-16176883
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...able-headphone-amplifier.943135/post-16177091
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...able-headphone-amplifier.943135/post-16177292
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...able-headphone-amplifier.943135/post-16178322

Here is the Cayin Product page:
https://en.cayin.cn/products_info?itemid=135

Thank you for your consideration of our interest in higher capacity non-protected 18650 cells!, Sincerely Scott


Reply from Sal @ Orbtronic:


Spoiler: Orbtronic email response



Hi Scott,

I see VTC6 3000mAh 30A.
I do not know why 30A is needed but nothing wrong with VTC6.

3600mAh is very rare cell // our protected 3600mAh is probably the last production run for 2021//.
Very limited production run of the core cell. 3500mAh is here to stay - 3600mAh - probably not. Why? 21700 5000mAh +  will take over.

3500mAh is the extremely good cell, and I would highly recommend it. Probably the best for your device. Run time winner in medium to low powered devices.
We will stop with the flat top version soon (do not want vapers to use it).
I think that button top unprotected is still within your specs.

But of course, you know better what will work (you can see contact clearance in the battery compartment)

Regards
Sal
ORBTRONIC ®
www.orbtronic.com


*So the 3500mah unprotected is the maximum capacity from Orbtronic, and Sal mentions stopping the flat top version and switching to button top (see details in email).

Also the 3600mah protected batch that is now available @ Orbtronic is the last batch for 2021... not for C9 use, but I use it in other equipment.

Sal also mentions the industry moving to the 5000mah 21700 and away from 18650 for devices.*


----------



## eskamobob1

hmscott said:


> See, this is a good example of how "specs" and "math" as applied theoretically don't necessarily match reality.
> 
> My Xduoo TA-20 Tube/SS Hybrid Headphone AMP @ 32 ohm put's out 2000mW, and at 50 ohm puts out a bit less power, but the TA-20 drives the HE6SE much better than my Topping A90 that puts out 6.4w @ 32 ohms. The sound from the TA-20 is fuller and more forceful at "rocking out" levels. Even at normal listening levels the TA-20 has more filled out sound stage in comparison to the A90.



How sure are you that you are hearing actually ability to fully run the cans and not at all being swayed by tube tonality? Also, how does the ta-20 do in songs with high dynamic ranges? Lots of stuff will run demanding cans "well enough". Hell, the abyss guys even say you can run dianas on an xcan. That doesnt mean the can is being properly driven though. Something else to keep in mind as well is that desktop gear tends to have less amperage drop off as you run higher volatges for higher impedences. Since the TA20 only lists power at 32ohm and no one (that i can find) has measured continuous power output at a few loads, its possible that the TA20 is also just a bit more capable than the single stat would let on having a more steady current output across its gain range

Ultimately, if you want to try HE6 on the C9, just do it. I am just trying to tell you that high impedence loads and low impedence low senitivity loads dont behaving the same at all


----------



## bluestorm1992

xand said:


> Actually I would be slightly sad if they're not within spitting distance (at least when both are battery powered) ... Unless of course you notice a huge difference between the Broadway S when battery vs mains powered...


I am actually testing against the Broadway balanced version, which is way more powerful than the single-ended version. Broadway balanced is really designed to drive high impedance/low sensitivity headphones, and it is the default pairing of Diana V2/Phi. It even has enough power to drive 1266 quite nicely. That’s why I am a bit surprised that C9 can drive headphones like Diana V2 in a similar way as the Broadway balanced.


----------



## hmscott (Feb 14, 2021)

eskamobob1 said:


> How sure are you that you are hearing actually ability to fully run the cans and not at all being swayed by tube tonality? Also, how does the ta-20 do in songs with high dynamic ranges? Lots of stuff will run demanding cans "well enough". Hell, the abyss guys even say you can run dianas on an xcan. That doesnt mean the can is being properly driven though. Something else to keep in mind as well is that desktop gear tends to have less amperage drop off as you run higher volatges for higher impedences. Since the TA20 only lists power at 32ohm and no one (that i can find) has measured continuous power output at a few loads, its possible that the TA20 is also just a bit more capable than the single stat would let on having a more steady current output across its gain range
> 
> Ultimately, if you want to try HE6 on the C9, just do it. I am just trying to tell you that high impedence loads and low impedence low senitivity loads dont behaving the same at all


There is no "folding back" of the power or distortion in the sound driving the HE6E V2 from the TA-20 at 80-85 (out of 95) in any music genre I've tried over the last week, with "normal" listening levels at 65-75.  The TA-20 has a well designed power supply backing up the Tube/SS power delivery.

The Tube/SS tonality does help a lot, as the SS A90 can sound sterile, thin and wispy in comparison - I'm not enjoying the SS A90 as I used to now that I am comparing the TA-20 Tube/SS sound against it.  The A90 still sounds great, but I prefer the "tube" sound of the TA-20.

That is why I am looking at getting the Cayin Tube/SS C9, for a similar sound profile for mobile and portable use.


----------



## bluestorm1992

@Andykong I got you lol! You just liked my post.  

Happy lunar new year. You will have a lot to review in this thread now lol. I think there are now 20 new pages from the last time you read.


----------



## xand (Feb 15, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> I am actually testing against the Broadway balanced version, which is way more powerful than the single-ended version. Broadway balanced is really designed to drive high impedance/low sensitivity headphones, and it is the default pairing of Diana V2/Phi. It even has enough power to drive 1266 quite nicely. That’s why I am a bit surprised that C9 can drive headphones like Diana V2 in a similar way as the Broadway balanced.



Oh yeah, I meant to refer to the balanced version.

If I'm not wrong they can also be powered just with 4 of the same batteries as the C9, so the only "advantage" they have is a larger physical size (which is usually an advantage but hey...)

This is assuming, of course, that you don't hear a big difference between the Broadway depending on whether it's mains connected at the relevant time.

Happy lunar new year @Andykong and all


----------



## bluestorm1992

xand said:


> Oh yeah, I meant to refer to the balanced version.
> 
> If I'm not wrong they can also be powered just with 4 of the same batteries as the C9, so the only "advantage" they have is a larger physical size (which is usually an advantage but hey...)
> 
> ...


Understood. Yes for Broadway I did not hear any difference when the mains powered or not.

I think performance wise, C9 and Broadway are really close. What could be telling them apart is the tuning. The tuning of Broadway is done using the Diana, so by default it is the perfect pairing with it. C9, on the other hand, is intended to fit a wide range of IEMs and headphones, so comparing it (or really any Amp) with Broadway in terms of driving the Diana is really setting a high bar for it. Even in this, I would say C9 does an excellent job.


----------



## Andykong

xand said:


> I'm pretty sure I'm going to get a replacement IC - mostly because I want to be able to play with the DAP while the C9 is far away.
> 
> Do you think there's a limit as to length, after which there's a notable decrease in  performance?
> 
> ...



Unlike Digital cable (or I2S cable in particular), you can use long cables with analog interconnect.  When you connect C9 with your DAP in 3.5mm, the cable is in fact very similar to a pair of RCA interconnect, which 1m is consider "short" cable in home audio application, 1.5m is standard, and 3m is still acceptable.  If you run the connection in 4.4mm balanced, you can go for much longer length if the cable is properly shielded. 

Therefore 18" is definitely not a problem, you can literally custom make them in any length you need. the only worry is the weight of the cable might stress the soldering point at some point, so don't use heavy duty cable for that purpose.  For example, I used Wireworld Nano series when I DIY long interconnect with 3.5mm with ease, but when I converted a pair of Sommer Blue Water Excelsior XLR into 4.4mm, I have to strength the connection with 3 layers of heat-shrink tubes, it looks ugly, but that's how it takes to get it work when you play around with lone/heavy cable for portable connectors.


----------



## Andykong

bluestorm1992 said:


> @Andykong I got you lol! You just liked my post.
> 
> Happy lunar new year. You will have a lot to review in this thread now lol. I think there are now 20 new pages from the last time you read.






xand said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you for the new year greetings.   

You guys won't stop at all, but I like it.


----------



## xand

Andykong said:


> Unlike Digital cable (or I2S cable in particular), you can use long cables with analog interconnect.  When you connect C9 with your DAP in 3.5mm, the cable is in fact very similar to a pair of RCA interconnect, which 1m is consider "short" cable in home audio application, 1.5m is standard, and 3m is still acceptable.  If you run the connection in 4.4mm balanced, you can go for much longer length if the cable is properly shielded.
> 
> Therefore 18" is definitely not a problem, you can literally custom make them in any length you need. the only worry is the weight of the cable might stress the soldering point at some point, so don't use heavy duty cable for that purpose.  For example, I used Wireworld Nano series when I DIY long interconnect with 3.5mm with ease, but when I converted a pair of Sommer Blue Water Excelsior XLR into 4.4mm, I have to strength the connection with 3 layers of heat-shrink tubes, it looks ugly, but that's how it takes to get it work when you play around with lone/heavy cable for portable connectors.



Thanks very much. Yeah I think I'm going to go for it. Maybe 60cm... 

Will probably just use the same cables being used as headphone cables - 27AWG 4n silver litz, 4 cores, nylon core, a PVC coat, individual nylon sleeving (and braided). Please let me know if you think this is an issue at all.


----------



## Andykong

bluestorm1992 said:


> A02 is fabulous - far exceeding my expectation. It is now replacing my desktop DAC to drive my Broadway Amp. Performance-wise my Burson DAC still wins, but N6ii + A02 gives close enough SQ to me while offering a lot more convenience.



Sorry I forgot which Burson DAC are you comparing to ?  Is that a streamer + DAC or a DAC/Amp? Do you need a source (digital transport)  to your Burson DAC?  Maybe N6ii can serve as a common source in the comparison, and then you will be comparing A02 vs Burson DAC directly, with N6ii as a constant in the comparison.


----------



## Andykong

jonstatt said:


> It will ship as soon as @Andykong can arrange after Chinese New Year break



I can't take this credit because they were taken care by other excellent Cayin staff, I am just a small piece in the Cayin system that happens to be placed under spotlight.


----------



## Andykong

lumdicks said:


> What an coincidence, I also gave my C9 some height as well!


TAOC is excellent stuff, I used them with my desktop system, good choice indeed.

Any impression to compare with or without the TAOC?


----------



## bluestorm1992

Andykong said:


> Sorry I forgot which Burson DAC are you comparing to ?  Is that a streamer + DAC or a DAC/Amp? Do you need a source (digital transport)  to your Burson DAC?  Maybe N6ii can serve as a common source in the comparison, and then you will be comparing A02 vs Burson DAC directly, with N6ii as a constant in the comparison.


It is the Burson Composer 3XP. It is a pure DAC; no streaming function but can take coax or usb input. Yes at the moment I figure that the best use case is N6ii as the source for Coax-in to the Burson DAC.


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> It is the Burson Composer 3XP. It is a pure DAC; no streaming function but can take coax or usb input. Yes at the moment I figure that the best use case is N6ii as the source for Coax-in to the Burson DAC.


Why not A02 ? Not worth it ?


----------



## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> Why not A02 ? Not worth it ?


For comparison purpose only.


----------



## Andykong (Feb 15, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> I really couldn’t go back to the original DAP alone after hearing it paired with C9. I feel like C9 is digging out the full potential of the DAP. N6ii + E02 sounds so mediocre compared to N6ii + E02 + C9, and this is with IEM (UM MEST/U18t).
> 
> How am I supposed to do any travel in the future with my DAP alone.  May need to carry C9 with me always.



Carrying C9 around is not a big problem, it's quite robust and conveniently shaped, I just put it into a small travelling flannel bag and put them into one of the smaller compartment of my backpack.  Trying to listening to C9 while walking around or travelling on bus/underground is something I yet to solve myself.





Whitigir said:


> It will be very hard to carry the C9 portably as there are a couple issues.
> 
> 1/ Dissipating heats.  If you are in SS and AB, then it is acceptable, but if you put it in the backpack, it would heat up very fast as well.  Now, if you are using Tube and class A, even just leaving it on the table, you can’t even touch it without tolerating the heat and clinching teeth’s
> 
> ...



I have prepared myself almost exactly as you have said: a L-connector portable cable and I am willing to stick with SS Class AB when I am running around, but the C9 will still warm up quickly when placed into a bad ventilated environment such as backpack.  N6ii has the added advantage to offer remote manipulation through HiByLink, so I am all ready except a customized bag that can house C9 with any choice of DAP.  I have talked to Teddy san from Vannuys for advice, so this is something we need to solved down the road.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 15, 2021)

Andykong said:


> Carrying C9 around is not a big problem, it's quite robust and conveniently shaped, I just put it into a small travelling flannel bag and put them into one of the smaller compartment of my backpack.  Trying to listening to C9 while walking around or travelling on bus/underground is something I yet to solve myself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just get something like this , and May want to punch some vent holes on the traveling pouch, stuck it on and carry away
https://www.amazon.com/Flydigi-Cool...073b9&pd_rd_wg=zmGGZ&pd_rd_i=B07V1RHRC7&psc=1


----------



## lumdicks

Andykong said:


> TAOC is excellent stuff, I used them with my desktop system, good choice indeed.
> 
> Any impression to compare with or without the TAOC?


No snake oil here but I found the background cleaner with better micro dynamic, especially for the tube mide, which is a common change of improved shock insulation.


----------



## Andykong (Feb 15, 2021)

Bosk said:


> RIP my speaker system that's has been collecting dust in a cupboard for years now. Now that technology allows us to listen _anywhere_ around the house or office without compromising fidelity (physical sensation of sub bass aside) it has become such an easy thing to embrace. I do sometimes miss the feeling of being viscerally overwhelmed by sheer waves of sound, but as someone who's always prioritized hearing every tiny nuance of every tiny instrument earphones & portable systems are a joy.
> 
> From a technical standpoint I guess the big advantage in terms of amplification would be not needing huge amounts of wattage to push massive drivers, making a battery-powered supply adequate. In fairness there's battery-powered speaker amps out there (IIRC Vinnie Rossi used to make them?) but I've read they lack dynamics. That's where I find something like the C9 is valuable, because even if you listen to IEMs directly out of a DAP and the dynamics seem fine, they can probably be improved substantially by adding an external amp. Pity audiophiles don't talk about dynamics more often as they're such a vital component (along with a black background) to great sound... but harder to quantify than something like soundstage width.
> 
> The other thing I've always found about having "too much" amplification is it makes you realize your DAP may be struggling to deal with complex passages, to the point where -and perhaps this is just me- you've found yourself subconsciously wincing when listening to a familiar track and you know one is coming up. That was always the big drawback of my AK380, a wimpy built-in headphone amp that would 'sag' whenever too much was happening in the music, yet sound completely dynamically-different on say girl/guitar albums where there was a lot less work for it to do. Things have come a long way, but I still don't have much faith in any DAP to deliver a cutting-edge dynamic performance using built-in amplfication alone - there simply isn't enough room for the circuitry! Full disclaimer though, I've yet to hear the DX220MAX or Kann Alpha and do recognize things are trending in the right direction. Probably less of an issue for anyone listening to all-BA earphones too.



I also miss the feeling of being overwhelmed by waves of sound, but the biggest reason for me to go back to speaker setup is soundstage and layering IN FRONT OF me, that is still something that we can't replicate with headphone system. The closest I tried is A16 Realiser from Smyth Research and it works pretty well.  Let's hope this will work out in the future and we can enjoy our headphone system at next level. 

When I started this thread, I said something like there is no such thing as over-powered, even IEMs will perform at a different level when we have ample power.  I didn't have a lot of consent at that time, I hope C9 will prove Cayin's argument and more headfier will come to realise the important of good amplifier.   By the way, the recent trend of low-impedance high sensitivity multi-BA has lowered the amplification requirements, but that's not necessarily result of BA technologies in general. BA earphones can be demanding too.  The first IEM that started my journey to use desktop headphone amplifier with earphone was Etymotic ER4S, a single BA rated at 150 ohms if I remember it correctly, I was using a very powerful DAP (iBasso DX100) at that time but still I was not convinced that I heard explored the full potential of this earphone already.  I had plugged it to my YULONG DX200 and the different was almost night and day.


----------



## Andykong (Feb 15, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> Couldn’t agree more. Before getting C9 I have been listening under the assumption that TOTL DAPs should mostly likely have competent Amps, at least for IEMs. It was after getting C9 that I realized how much these DAPs are limited by their Amp section.
> 
> The improvement from C9 is far greater than what I expected. For example, the SE output from Lotoo PAW Gold has long been considered as one of the industry gold standards, even triumphing the SE from LPGT. I was surprised how much the improvement can be after pairing LPG with C9.





Bosk said:


> I've no doubt you're absolutely right about the C9. In fact it wouldn't surprise me to learn some TOTL desktop amps can push IEMs even further than it can. I think people assume because they're so small IEMs won't keep scaling with better sources & amps but I suspect one could spend many thousands on desktop electronics and hear their performance increase. Of course by that stage it may make more sense to simply plug in a TOTL headphone, which may be why most people wouldn't think to try it.
> 
> This could also explain why BA-based earphones have gained so much popularity, because DAPs are much more able to extract closer-to-full performance from them. Hybrids are also popular but their DDs are mostly used for sub bass so it doesn't matter how well they're driven to the same extent. What disappoints me is seeing people spend megabucks on cables for portable systems they only use at home, knowing if they put that money towards a C9 for example they'd probably be seeing MUCH more performance. I'm not saying that as a cable skeptic, but the capability of modern DAPs has almost created a culture of amp skeptics who falsely believe DAPs are giving their IEMs all the quality juice they could possibly need.





I want to quote a short passage from my C9 description on the opening post of this thread:


> _Cayin firmly believe that when the amplifier excels in control and equipped with appropriate volume management, there is no such thing as over-powered. Even IEMs will perform at a different level when we have ample power.  ...  Given the rapid development of high-end IEMs in recent years, Cayin believes there is a market for ultimate portable headphone amplifier that can bring out the best of these high-end IEMs, ....._



When I said C9 was designed with IEM as priority, everyone just assume C9 will be a low powered amplifier. The common consent is, that kind of power is irrelevant for IEM and no one will pay top dollars for a high power portable headphone amplifier designed for IEM products.  I am glad that your impressions have proven our point.  There is a market for something like C9, this is an unexplored territories in Personal Audio, and we can push the envelope of the industry and offer more room for IEM products down the road.  I am not sure if we have delivered a game changer at this point, we need more time to sustain this claim, but the Cayin management and R&D team are definitely excited to know we are heading to the right track.


----------



## xand

The C9 (and DX300) are too long to be positioned vertically - I'll probably put them in laterally (i.e. on their sides), but still - not a lot of spare space!


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The 384kHz and DSD256 is a limitation of the FPGA in N6ii.  The processing power from 384kHz to 768kHz and DSD256 to DSD512 is quite substantial, we decided to accept that limitation since the availability of 768kHz and DSD512 material was very low back in late 2018.


----------



## Kiats

xand said:


> The C9 (and DX300) are too long to be positioned vertically - I'll probably put them in laterally (i.e. on their sides), but still - not a lot of spare space!


Very nice! Especially if everyone is thinking you are carrying a briefcase of documents into the office. When it’s actually sonic bliss.


----------



## jonstatt

KickAssChewGum said:


> For the SP2000, I've found the best line out setting is to set it to is '3vSE/6vBAL' in the Line Out settings (Settings > Line Out > Output Options). NB you can set other voltages here too if desired. Make sure you have the latest firmware downloaded.
> 
> In the 'Line Out' Settings menu, make sure you have 'Line Out - Activate Line Out button on the Volume Panel' set to on.
> 
> ...



Agree with this. Its how I have my sp2k. Make sure to use low gain on the C9 with balanced 6V or overload will occur.

I do continue to affirm my opinion that the sp2k is not the best driver to the c9, probably due to the fact it has no real line out. The n8 performs notably better and I look forward to getting the n6ii a02. 

I also feel that the sp2k is now overpriced in a market of similarly performing alternatives at substantially lower cost.


----------



## Andykong

hmscott said:


> I've been waiting for someone with a production unit to give a customer test review before giving up on the C9 altogether.  If not @bluestorm1992 then another customer with a production unit may be able to give us some insight as to how the C9 sounds with 600 ohm headphones, or hard to drive Planar Magnetic Headphones.
> 
> My Topping A90 can drive the HE6SE V2 at High Gain + 12 o'clock on the volume dial, and my Xduoo TA-20 at 85 out of 95 on the volume dial sounds much better - even though the A90 should be able to deliver more power the TA-20 sounds more full and forceful.
> 
> ...



I have tried HiFiman HE6 with C9 briefly, you can refer to my previous sharing *HERE*.

I have also tried Beyer T1v2 with C9 at Taipei Headphone Festival 2020, a visitor brought his 4.4mm modded T1v2 to our booth and listened to C9 for half an hour.  I assume he liked the pair in general otherwise he won't stay that long.  At the end of his audition I listened to his T1v2 and he shared his impression with me briefly.  Based on what I heard and what he said, I offered my Empyrean and he left in misery because the Empyrean performed so much better (his word) with C9.  We knows Empyrean doesn't necessarily outperformed  T1v2 on every aspect, given the right amplifier, so this is a matter of synergy.

For the record, when I said C9 is not a good choice for heavy loads such as HE6 or 600 Ohms T1, I mean "Portable amplifier, even as powerful as C9, will not outperform desktop amplifier at the same price" (HERE),  so if these are your primary headphones, desktop system works better.  On the other hands, if you are happy with the audio performance of your 600 Ohm headphones with your current DAP, then you can have peace of mind that C9 will offer more driving power than current DAPs.


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> I would think the majority of OpAmps are cheaper, the expensive parts are the Discrete OpAmps upgrades ... or the soldering works to perform SMD swap, implant sockets to swap OpAmps
> These batteries are more fun to swap and roll with



How about OPA627SM or MUSES02 ?


----------



## lumdicks (Feb 15, 2021)

Andykong said:


> I want to quote a short passage from my C9 description on the opening post of this thread:
> 
> 
> When I said C9 was designed with IEM as priority, everyone just assume C9 will be a low powered amplifier. The common consent is, that kind of power is irrelevant for IEM and no one will pay top dollars for a high power portable headphone amplifier designed for IEM products.  I am glad that your impressions have proven our point.  There is a market for something like C9, this is an unexplored territories in Personal Audio, and we can push the envelope of the industry and offer more room for IEM products down the road.  I am not sure if we have delivered a game changer at this point, we need more time to sustain this claim, but the Cayin management and R&D team are definitely excited to know we are heading to the right track.


Agreed, I think the TOTL IEMs deserve a good Amp to unleash their full potential. All of my IEMs sing beautifully with C9 pairing with different sources, under different modes, with an objective to achieve the best synergy.

Time to test drive the big boy with C9 now.


----------



## hmscott

Andykong said:


> I have tried HiFiman HE6 with C9 briefly, you can refer to my previous sharing *HERE*.
> 
> I have also tried Beyer T1v2 with C9 at Taipei Headphone Festival 2020, a visitor brought his 4.4mm modded T1v2 to our booth and listened to C9 for half an hour.  I assume he liked the pair in general otherwise he won't stay that long.  At the end of his audition I listened to his T1v2 and he shared his impression with me briefly.  Based on what I heard and what he said, I offered my Empyrean and he left in misery because the Empyrean performed so much better (his word) with C9.  We knows Empyrean doesn't necessarily outperformed  T1v2 on every aspect, given the right amplifier, so this is a matter of synergy.
> 
> For the record, when I said C9 is not a good choice for heavy loads such as HE6 or 600 Ohms T1, I mean "Portable amplifier, even as powerful as C9, will not outperform desktop amplifier at the same price" (HERE),  so if these are your primary headphones, desktop system works better.  On the other hands, if you are happy with the audio performance of your 600 Ohm headphones with your current DAP, then you can have peace of mind that C9 will offer more driving power than current DAPs.





Andykong said:


> I am sure this is the natural understanding when you have solid experience of driving full size headphones with both portable and desktop amplifier.  The concept of driving ABC headphone to 90dB/100dB simply don't make any sense practically.  For the record, I have test the C9 engineering sample with Hifiman HE6, the C9 can drive it to very loud when I feed a 1kHz test tone, but when I play a music passage,  it is flat and congested, the separation and dynamic are seriously lacking, let alone the emotions and climates of the music content.


Thank you for the insights as to what might be possible with the production C9's, I think we should all give it a try!   

The newer Adorama "Special" Hifiman HE6SE V2 is supposed to be easier to drive.  And, my 600ohm Beyerdynamic headphones have a wide range of ease to drive,  the DT880 600 ohm responds the best of them.

I'm certainly enjoying them all with only 2000mW @ 50ohm via a Hybrid tube/SS Xduoo TA-20, so I am hoping the C9 tube/SS with 2600mW @ 32 ohm can also provide similar results.

It is all very exciting


----------



## Andykong

Bosk said:


> Great review! You've described the C9 sounding much as I'd expect it to. Quality amplification gives music a sense of ease & effortlessness yet you hear _everything_ without having to strain in the slightest, the soundstage is more solid & congealed and notes appear out of inky blackness, stunning you with their bite, precision and absence of metallic ringing that's only noticed once its gone.
> 
> When I listen straight out of a DAP I struggle to remain engaged throughout an entire song, but with proper amplification music becomes an _event _and I struggle to focus on anything else. How do you know when you have a REALLY good system? When the music can literally move you to tears. Yet comically, you may even feel a spontaneous urge to applaud after a wonderful song is played, such is the deep emotional level on which your system allows you to connect with the performers.
> 
> It sounds like you made a great purchase in the C9, you also have some really nice gear in your collection. Happy listening!



Wey well said.   

I think we can summarise your first paragraph in one keyword: headroom.  It is my persona belief that we can't judge the performance and feasibility of an amplifier with a particular headphone or speaker based on number of watts required to produce 90dB loudness, and even when we dig deeper to issues such as voltage swing and skew rate, we are still far from predicting the actual listening experience because headroom is not quantified and is subjective.


----------



## Andykong

KickAssChewGum said:


> Hey @Andykong, I’m keen to buy an additional set of batteries with spare charging tray for my C9. How can I do this?
> 
> Many thanks in advance!



I don't have a clue.   

We pick 18650 because it is widely available across different countries, @Whitigir has shared several source and I beg local users are more reliable than me when come to availability of 18650 batteries locally.


----------



## Andykong

xand said:


> Urgh - thanks and it looks awesome, sadly I don't think I can face the price lol.
> 
> 
> 
> Personal, I'm probably not going to change anything hopefully for 3 years... Except maybe a DX300 amp module which is designed to give 4.4v LO, and has a separate, 4.4mm phone out.



If you said you are not going to change anything for 3 months, I probably will applause your plan, but 3 years? seriously? that doesn't sound convincing at all.


----------



## Andykong

eskamobob1 said:


> @Andykong I'm sorry if it was stated before since I can't find it. Are the power output specs of the C9 reported in the first post of this thread continuous power? Or peak power?



Continuous power for sure.


----------



## Andykong

bluestorm1992 said:


> *Cayin C9 - TOTL IEM/Headphone Portable Tube/Solid-State (SS) Amplifier Review (1/2)*
> 
> This is going to be a long review so I will break it into two parts: The first for C9's functionality and general performance (this post), and the second for its specific pairing with my various gears.
> 
> ...



Thank you for taking our time to share your impression with us, this is way more comprehensive and positive that we can expect, we are flattered. I am looking forward to your Part 2, so take your time but please no more delays 

Just one reminder: I have resigned from my full-time capacity with Cayin back in mid 2019.  I serve as their freelance consultant ever since.  VP is not a good "qualifier" at this stage.


----------



## Andykong

lumdicks said:


> No snake oil here but I found the background cleaner with better micro dynamic, especially for the tube mide, which is a common change of improved shock insulation.



I have similar experience from my home audio system in general. In my experience, equipment that are unevenly distributed (in terms of weight) or those with a lot of free space inside the chassis will be benefited by these accessories, C9 is compact and weight only 550g, so I didn't expect these accessories will works so well.


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> Just get something like this , and May want to punch some vent holes on the traveling pouch, stuck it on and carry away
> https://www.amazon.com/Flydigi-Cool...073b9&pd_rd_wg=zmGGZ&pd_rd_i=B07V1RHRC7&psc=1



Well, I am a little skeptical to add something that spin or vibrate heavily with my DAP and C9, I'll stick with Solid State Class AB for the moment and look for other options.


----------



## Whitigir

Andykong said:


> Well, I am a little skeptical to add something that spin or vibrate heavily with my DAP and C9, I'll stick with Solid State Class AB for the moment and look for other options.


Hehe, when you carrying in the backpack, it is moving and vibrating still


----------



## Andykong

xand said:


> Thanks very much. Yeah I think I'm going to go for it. Maybe 60cm...
> 
> Will probably just use the same cables being used as headphone cables - 27AWG 4n silver litz, 4 cores, nylon core, a PVC coat, individual nylon sleeving (and braided). Please let me know if you think this is an issue at all.



Yes, this should works fine.  

In my experience, the longer your cable, the more important is the shielding design, maybe even more important than the material of the conductor at some point.   Litz cable with PCV coat should offer good shielding for 60 cm.  For complete peace of mind, you can look for four core cable with each conductor reussen shielded, or multi-strand cable with a braid shield, and then connect the shield to the GND pin of the two 4.4mm connector.


----------



## bye2

bluestorm1992 said:


> *Cayin C9 - TOTL IEM/Headphone Portable Tube/Solid-State (SS) Amplifier Review (1/2)*



Nice review!  Looking forward to part 2.  

Hugo 2 is interesting.  As you said, it's quite dominant over the gears.  May be so, I've found when combining with C9, it's still same sound of Hugo 2 (may be a bit warmer).  Really not a playing a great different unless when needed to drive something like HD800s.



jonstatt said:


> Agree with this. Its how I have my sp2k. Make sure to use low gain on the C9 with balanced 6V or overload will occur.
> 
> I do continue to affirm my opinion that the sp2k is not the best driver to the c9, probably due to the fact it has no real line out. The n8 performs notably better and I look forward to getting the n6ii a02.
> 
> I also feel that the sp2k is now overpriced in a market of similarly performing alternatives at substantially lower cost.





KickAssChewGum said:


> For the SP2000, I've found the best line out setting is to set it to is '3vSE/6vBAL' in the Line Out settings (Settings > Line Out > Output Options). NB you can set other voltages here too if desired. Make sure you have the latest firmware downloaded.
> 
> In the 'Line Out' Settings menu, make sure you have 'Line Out - Activate Line Out button on the Volume Panel' set to on.
> 
> ...



Different from you both, I've stayed on playing with the so-called "lineout" on my SP1000.  Instead, I set the C9 on preamp mode with both my wm1a and SP1000.  What I feel is: when using lineout (4V in SP1000), it's the sound of C9.  When using preamp mode C9, it's the clear sound of a powered SP1000 or warm sounded wm1a (with Project Z).  Funny things to have with the C9.  



lumdicks said:


> Agreed, I think the TOTL IEMs deserve a good Amp to unleash their full potential. All of my IEMs sing beautifully with C9 pairing with different sources, under different modes, with an objective to achieve the best synergy.
> 
> Time to test drive the big boy with C9 now.



It's my day 1 task with my Ether 2  


-----

I was busy swapping gears to play with C9 these days, run out of battery, and was always rotating the battery set of VTR6 as I focus on Tube A.   I start to wonder if the PCB of C9 battery connection will be have like the old Nintendo SFC cartridge...


----------



## Andykong

xand said:


> The C9 (and DX300) are too long to be positioned vertically - I'll probably put them in laterally (i.e. on their sides), but still - not a lot of spare space!



How about a crossed layout, with C9 in the bottom vertically, and DAP on top horizontally, and keeping 10mm gap between them?


----------



## bye2

Andykong said:


> How about a crossed layout, with C9 in the bottom vertically, and DAP on top horizontally, and keeping 10mm gap between them?



This is what I’m always doing these days...


----------



## gazzington

would this power a dt800 600ohm if im sat at my desk?


----------



## eskamobob1

Andykong said:


> If you said you are not going to change anything for 3 months, I probably will applause your plan, but 3 years? seriously? that doesn't sound convincing at all.



Hey now. Believing in the man is the least we can do. He is just saying the exact same thing I say when I buy an expensive new toy every month......


----------



## wgkwgk

I just read your C9 review. 
Would the C9 properly replace my Liquid Platinum?

Great review! BTW.


----------



## bluestorm1992

wgkwgk said:


> I just read your C9 review.
> Would the C9 properly replace my Liquid Platinum?
> 
> Great review! BTW.


Thank you for your kind words! May I know what headphones are you using with your Liquid Platinum?

Looking at pure output power, the Liquid Platinum is more powerful but C9 is not too far behind. Also, based on user feedback here, C9 can even drive 300 Ohm HD 800s quite nicely.


----------



## wgkwgk

bluestorm1992 said:


> Thank you for your kind words! May I know what headphones are you using with your Liquid Platinum?
> 
> Looking at pure output power, the Liquid Platinum is more powerful but C9 is not too far behind. Also, based on user feedback here, C9 can even drive 300 Ohm HD 800s quite nicely.



Grade GH2, ZMF Auteur and VC, Zach's Foster mod planers Blackwood.  Midteir Noble and Olivetti.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 15, 2021)

wgkwgk said:


> Grade GH2, ZMF Auteur and VC, Zach's Foster mod planers Blackwood.  Midteir Noble and Olivetti.


Nice collection of headphones!

I only have a Planar (Abyss Diana V2) with me, so I can best talk about C9's performance with it. Below I repost a reply I sent to another Head-fier about V2's pairing with C9.

"Yes C9 has no problem in driving V2 properly. I am not sure whether you have experienced a headphone that is “not driven properly”. I have tried V2 with some DAPs and some desktop gears, and sometimes the music is apparently plain, lacking dynamics, and no full body of the music. C9, on the other hand, has no such problem. With it, V2 is dynamic and pleasant.

However, I do want to say that there is room for improvement. When compared with Diana’s default Amp the Xiaudio Broadway (balanced), the Broadway has better overall presentation. With C9 SS, the sound from V2 is a bit too harsh and too intimate. With C9 Tube, the sound becomes too soft. With the Broadway Amp. You get the full dynamics and a wider soundstage. Feels like the perfect balance between C9’s SS and tube mode, with the addition of a wider sound stage.

Still, I give C9 enough credit for its performance in driving V2. I feel like you can get a very good idea of Diana V2’s performance with it."

Diana V2 is a very insensitive headphone, so given that C9 can drive it properly, it should have no problem in driving most Planars, unless we go to Abyss 1266 or Hifiman Susvara. Also, the Broadway Amp I mention here is the default pairing of Diana V2 - its tuning is done with the Diana. Therefore, it sets a really high bar in terms of driving V2. I am quite happy that C9 + V2 approaches the "default pairing" really close. Note also that the Broadway Amp is an even more expensive Amp (MSRP $2299).


----------



## markel

How does it compare to the iDSD Diablo? Sorry if this has already been asked.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 15, 2021)

markel said:


> How does it compare to the iDSD Diablo? Sorry if this has already been asked.


I think these two are quite different devices.  As I read from Diablo's description, it is a DAC/Amp intergraded device. C9, so I am more inclined to consider this as a DAP (that does not have a display).

As for the comparison, I don't own the Diablo and it will be inappropriate for me to conclude that C9 is better simply because it is more expensive. But, given that C9 is a dedicated Amp, and the fact that you can pair a very nice source component to it, I think C9 has a much greater potential to deliver a better sound.


----------



## Whitigir

Diablo also take input from USB interfaces only....where as many modern DAPS are using FPGA and communicate over I2S which is the best interfaces for Digital Audio .  For this technicalities alone, I would also say using a C9 with a properly designed DAP and Line out is a much better choice than any devices that only use USB interfaces


----------



## markel

I agree the Diablo and C9 have different use cases, but hopefully someone will be able to compare the sound quality at some point. Both have high powered amps in a portable size, which is why I think they are worth comparing. Maybe at some point I'll get the C9, since I already have the Diablo.


----------



## Whitigir

markel said:


> I agree the Diablo and C9 have different use cases, but hopefully someone will be able to compare the sound quality at some point. Both have high powered amps in a portable size, which is why I think they are worth comparing. Maybe at some point I'll get the C9, since I already have the Diablo.


Talk about Amp! The C9 is all discrete, and Diablo is Opamp based


----------



## markel

C9 should sound much better, especially with all its impressive specs, but still would be nice to know the difference. Another, maybe more relevant, question is how would it compare to something like the ZMF Pendant?


----------



## eskamobob1 (Feb 15, 2021)

markel said:


> I agree the Diablo and C9 have different use cases, but hopefully someone will be able to compare the sound quality at some point. Both have high powered amps in a portable size, which is why I think they are worth comparing. Maybe at some point I'll get the C9, since I already have the Diablo.



You are going to have to be way more specific if you want any kind of valid comparison. The C9 has no DAC at all and the diablo has no analogue input, so at the bare minimum we would need a dac you want paired with the C9. The Micro BL would be a much better comparison (as it takes line in) than the diablo or sig would be IMO. BX2+, BA300S, Chimera, WA8, HD8, stuff like that is a much more valid comparison as they all can operate as pure amps.

EDIT: Yah, IMO, the pendant is a far more valid comparison, but I wouldn't exactly expect much given the pendants price range and not having the portable limitations. I am personally quite curious how the C9 stacks up, purely in terms of resolution, against stuff like the A90, Dyanlo, and even GSX Mini (though that again is a pendant situation). No one seems to ever talk about the resolving capabilities of portable amps and i find it kind of annoying tbh. makes it very hard to judge just how good one is apart from feature list


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 15, 2021)

I will be receiving an audition unit of the VE Elysium over the weekend, so I will prospone the review part #2 a bit to include the impression with Elysium. 

Speaking of this, I am actually debating between Elysium and Verite closed as my next purchase. Both of them seem like a promising pairing with C9.


----------



## Bosk

Andykong said:


> Yes, this should works fine.
> 
> In my experience, the longer your cable, the more important is the shielding design, maybe even more important than the material of the conductor at some point.   Litz cable with PCV coat should offer good shielding for 60 cm.  For complete peace of mind, you can look for four core cable with each conductor reussen shielded, or multi-strand cable with a braid shield, and then connect the shield to the GND pin of the two 4.4mm connector.


Sorry it's dragging things slightly OT, but I'm currently using an unshielded non-litz 70cm silver 8-core 3.5mm interconnect between my DAP & amp. Do you think for a cable of this length there might be much benefit in adding a layer or two of shielding? I know braiding offers RFI rejection of sorts, but of course the really pricey analog interconnects out there (Nordost etc.) are generally shielded and often elaborately so. Very interested to get your thoughts.


----------



## xand (Feb 15, 2021)

markel said:


> How does it compare to the iDSD Diablo?



I was choosing between the Focal Arche and some DAP (or portable dac/amp), for Utopia. I demoed a bunch, including the Diablo (iPhone 12 pro, with purifier 3, Light Harmonic Lightspeed 1G, USB 3 apple CCK), iFi Signature (iPhone with USB 2 apple CCK), DX300,  and Focal Arche (iPhone, Lightspeed 1G, Naim powerline and stock XLR 4-pin balanced cable).

I was quite keen that whatever I bought be transportable, and it was important that it also be notably better than my existing gear (else why bother buying anything) - I have a Naim DAC-V1 and a Geek Pulse/LPS.

I ultimately bought the DX300 + C9. Note that the Arche was close, and better in some ways than the combination, but the transportability made the DX300 + C9 worth the extra cost. I did think the DX300 + C9 was much better than anything else I heard without the C9...

I really wanted to like the Diablo, and I did think it was better than the existing gear, but it wasn't even close to the DX300 + C9 combination. I didn't have the opportunity to try the Diablo into the C9 - different shop.

In hindsight, as I write this, and because I very slightly preferred the Signature  to the Diablo,  I realise there's a chance that a contributing factor to my choice could have been the headphone cables: I demoed the Diablo using the stock unbalanced cable (I didn't own and that shop didn't have a demo of a balanced 4.4mm -> Utopia cable, or a 4.4mm to XLR 4-pin converter so I could use the Utopia's stock XLR 4-pin balanced cable), but all of the rest using a balanced Ares Audio Twilight (silver) cable (which I eventually bought too) ... 



markel said:


> C9 should sound much better, especially with all its impressive specs...



I actually think the Diablo's specifications are somewhat more impressive given the size and price point...


----------



## DaYooper

So let me ask this about cables. Am I supposed to believe that a mediocre cable can turn an otherwise wonderful piece of equipment into a garbage can? or the other way  around that the Creator's gift to cables can make a garbage can sound like a heavenly choir?


----------



## xand

Andykong said:


> If you said you are not going to change anything for 3 months, I probably will applause your plan, but 3 years? seriously? that doesn't sound convincing at all.





eskamobob1 said:


> Hey now. Believing in the man is the least we can do. He is just saying the exact same thing I say when I buy an expensive new toy every month......



THANKS!!!

It's... somewhat(?) realistic, before Utopia, my last REAL personal audio purchase was the Zeus XR in 2016! (Okay, I have bought powerbeats pro, and both the Sony WH3 and XM3 inbetween, but they don't realllllly count right). Actually I've also bought speakers lol. 

I have bought other expensive toys, but generally not monthly...


----------



## xand (Feb 15, 2021)

Andykong said:


> How about a crossed layout, with C9 in the bottom vertically, and DAP on top horizontally, and keeping 10mm gap between them?



Good idea! Will consider.



Andykong said:


> In my experience, the longer your cable, the more important is the shielding design, maybe even more important than the material of the conductor at some point.   Litz cable with PCV coat should offer good shielding for 60 cm.  For complete peace of mind, you can look for four core cable with each conductor reussen shielded, or multi-strand cable with a braid shield, and then connect the shield to the GND pin of the two 4.4mm connector.



Ahh, can't find anything with this shielding easily ... will look around more, but do you have any particular suggestions (no DIY please)?



Bosk said:


> Sorry it's dragging things slightly OT, but I'm currently using an unshielded non-litz 70cm silver 8-core 3.5mm interconnect between my DAP & amp. Do you think for a cable of this length there might be much benefit in adding a layer or two of shielding? I know braiding offers RFI rejection of sorts, but of course the really pricey analog interconnects out there (Nordost etc.) are generally shielded and often elaborately so. Very interested to get your thoughts.



I would at least demo a balanced 4.4mm to 4.4mm connection - just compare what you're using to the stock 4.4mm cable the C9 ships with? While I don't generally think using balanced headphone cables is terribly important (but see my post on what I demoed, and note that this is assuming that the unbalanced amp output produces sufficient power), I think it's quite accepted than using a balanced connection between source and amp is beneficial.



DaYooper said:


> So let me ask this about cables. Am I supposed to believe that a mediocre cable can turn an otherwise wonderful piece of equipment into a garbage can? or the other way  around that the Creator's gift to cables can make a garbage can sound like a heavenly choir?



I don't believe that... Actually I'm not sure anyone does. The general guideline is cables should be 10% of system cost _at the most_ right?


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 15, 2021)

DaYooper said:


> So let me ask this about cables. Am I supposed to believe that a mediocre cable can turn an otherwise wonderful piece of equipment into a garbage can? or the other way  around that the Creator's gift to cables can make a garbage can sound like a heavenly choir?


Excellent questions but here is what I think

1/ Cables should be the last in the chain
2/ Well designed and good equipments will benefits from the cables, the better the cables, the better the last % will be squeezed out
3/ No expensive cables can make chicken poops into chicken soups....it means, no expensive cables can make your radio shack MP3 players to become a high-res and DSD512 capable ...lol



xand said:


> Good idea! Will consider.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


it depends on your desires, do you want to squeeze the 5% more ? Or do you want to squeeze 1% more out of your system ? LoL.  You gotta judge it based on an “auditions” though


----------



## KickAssChewGum (Feb 15, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> I will be receiving an audition unit of the VE Elysium over the weekend, so I will prospone the review part #2 a bit to include the impression with Elysium.
> 
> Speaking of this, I am actually debating between Elysium and Verite closed as my next purchase. Both of them seem like a promising pairing with C9.


Very keen to hear your thoughts on the Elysium pairing as I’m thinking about getting them too. Keep up the great work!


----------



## eskamobob1

xand said:


> I don't believe that... Actually I'm not sure anyone does. The general guideline is cables should be 10% of system cost _at the most_ right?



People 10,000% believe this.


----------



## xand

Whitigir said:


> Excellent questions but here is what I think
> 
> 1/ Cables should be the last in the chain
> 2/ Well designed and good equipments will benefits from the cables, the better the cables, the better the last % will be squeezed out
> ...



I want a 60cm cable which isn't materially worse than the stock cable....


----------



## markel (Feb 15, 2021)

\


xand said:


> I was choosing between the Focal Arche and some DAP (or portable dac/amp), for Utopia. I demoed a bunch, including the Diablo (iPhone 12 pro, with purifier 3, Light Harmonic Lightspeed 1G, USB 3 apple CCK), iFi Signature (iPhone with USB 2 apple CCK), DX300,  and Focal Arche (iPhone, Lightspeed 1G, Naim powerline and stock XLR 4-pin balanced cable).
> 
> I was quite keen that whatever I bought be transportable, and it was important that it also be notably better than my existing gear (else why bother buying anything) - I have a Naim DAC-V1 and a Geek Pulse/LPS.
> 
> ...



Adding the DX300 in the chain as a transport/DAC probably made a big difference.  When I connected the iPhone or Android phone to the Diablo as a transport it wasn't any where near as good as connecting a laptop with the purifier3 or connecting the Sony NW-WM1A (which sounded best).  I don't think cables have as much impact.


----------



## xand (Feb 15, 2021)

markel said:


> Adding the DX300 in the chain as a transport/DAC probably made a big difference.  When I connected the iPhone or Android phone to the Diablo as a transport it wasn't any where near as good as connecting a laptop with the purifier3 or connecting the Sony NW-WM1A (which sounded best).  I don't think cables have as much impact.



Ah - unfortunately I didn't own any DAP...

I did consider whether my source was poor actually - but the Naim was better out of the iPhone than my desktop (maybe my desktop is awful).... and ultimately I wanted something either phone or DAP driven for transportability.

Anyhow, hope that helped!

I think the bottom line is, if you're considering the C9, you should demo it. Since you have a 1A already, maybe try that as a source directly plus use the Diablo as a DAC? Then you can post your impressions and it might help someone else...

However as Andy has mentioned, it's possible that desktop tubes might do better - I'd consider these:
https://forum.headphones.com/t/im-sailing-away/5367/86

plus Feliks Euphoria (and the anniversary variant), Mcintosh mha200, Cayin HA6A and 300A...

Again, I suggest a demo...


----------



## brannigan

Just managed to take delivery of a brand new C9. Paired with my ibasso dx300 in LO mode. I do see that there is an underlying scratching sound across all tracks. I did try both tidal on Android and mango os on the ibasso. The c9 is linked to the Sony ier-z1r. Am I hearing amplified artefacts in the track itself or is it the c9 that’s faulty?


----------



## newworld666

I don't own the C9 nor the Dx300 .. but it was somewhere on my target for a high-end portable system.
I would say if you don't hear anything when the IER-Z1R is connected directly to the Dx300, that the C9 shouldn't be involved is cracks, and maybe, it can just prove the C9 helps to reveal details with IEM like the Z1R ?.
I would more imagine that probably the Dx300 is faulty somewhere as a DAC or transport functions  .. though I am not sure of anything.


----------



## Whitigir

brannigan said:


> Just managed to take delivery of a brand new C9. Paired with my ibasso dx300 in LO mode. I do see that there is an underlying scratching sound across all tracks. I did try both tidal on Android and mango os on the ibasso. The c9 is linked to the Sony ier-z1r. Am I hearing amplified artefacts in the track itself or is it the c9 that’s faulty?


Take out the interconnect, just C9 and the Z1R, is there noises ?
Plug Z1R into the 300, is there noises ?


----------



## jmills8

brannigan said:


> Just managed to take delivery of a brand new C9. Paired with my ibasso dx300 in LO mode. I do see that there is an underlying scratching sound across all tracks. I did try both tidal on Android and mango os on the ibasso. The c9 is linked to the Sony ier-z1r. Am I hearing amplified artefacts in the track itself or is it the c9 that’s faulty?


Its not the amp.


----------



## brannigan

Thanks. I do see that once I changed the ibasso line out to Low gain mode the problem seemed to disappear. 


Whitigir said:


> Take out the interconnect, just C9 and the Z1R, is there noises ?
> Plug Z1R into the 300, is there noises ?


----------



## MFHRaptor

Seeing as how bulky the Caying C9 is, for the sake of portability, would a dongle DAC like Lotoo PAW S1 be a good match to feed such a high-end portable AMP? or will that greatly undermine the Caying C9 capabilities?


----------



## brannigan

I just tried doing so. Way too much noise. Doesn’t work. 


MFHRaptor said:


> Seeing as how bulky the Caying C9 is, for the sake of portability, would a dongle DAC like Lotoo PAW S1 be a good match to feed such a high-end portable AMP? or will that greatly undermine the Caying C9 capabilities?


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 16, 2021)

@surfgeorge I try to answer your question here:



> I am finding it difficult though to follow the reasoning like " Unlike the regular line-in mode, where C9 takes up most of the job of delivering the sound signature of the output, in pre-mode the signature of the DAP is mostly preserved.”
> In my understanding an amplifier can never add anything to the signal it's receiving, it can only do 3 things - amplify the signal, modify the signal, and reduce the load on the source (DAC/DAP) which can help to get the best out of the DAC.


I think you are right that the Amp does not add anything to the signal - it however adjusts the signals in certain way, either amplifies it or modifies it. That’s why in the text I say it “delivers” the signature of the music.

If I were to expand this point a bit, I think a better term I would use it that the Amp “reorganizes” and “optimizes” the signals it receives, which is my exact experience with C9.

What I find is the C9 seems to be doing the following thing. It picks up the “ingredients” of the sound and optimizes it towards a target. For LPG, it is a really neutral DAP and it excels in presenting all the details of the track. However, some people find this a bit overwhelmed and sharp to their ears. After pairing with C9, I immediately notice that the sound “relaxes”. Vocals are pushed out a bit further, and the “detail in your face” kind of feeling goes away. Meanwhile, the fact that the sound is mostly neutral (with SS mode of C9) and full of details is preserved. The sound also continues to be somewhat sharp to my ears, and changing C9 to tube mode helps to solve this. What I try to convey in this example is that C9 is: (1) preserving characteristics of the source since it uses its DAC signals as the “ingredient”; (2) reorganizes the music. The process of the reorganization and optimization determines how the sound signature is “delivered”. With C9, I will much less likely to describe the sound of LPG to be “overwhelming”. It is now much more pleasant to listen to and I can enjoy LPG + C9 for hours without feeling fatigue. Some people may describe this change to be a change in sound signature.

In the pre-mode, on the other hand, I find that C9 is doing much less in changing the signature of the sound - it just makes the output a lot more powerful. I think this is not only due to how C9 works in the pre-mode, but also because we will need to feed headphone signals from the DAP to C9 which already features a strong signature of the music through the DAP’s own Amp.

I was going to share these thoughts in Review #2. Please let me know if this makes sense to you/answers your question.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 16, 2021)

@surfgeorge I accidentally hit the send bottom when I am still editing... Check back in a minute after I finish editing the previous post!

Edit: Update done!


----------



## Andykong (Feb 16, 2021)

brannigan said:


> Thanks. I do see that once I changed the ibasso line out to Low gain mode the problem seemed to disappear.



Did you set C9 to high gain?

DX300 line out is 3V Single ended and 6V Balanced at High gain, this is significantly higher than industrial standard 2V Single ended  and 4V Balanced.   When you use High gain line out of DX300, you need to set C9 to low gain, but when you use low gain line out of DX300, you can set to either low gain or high gain.


----------



## zen87192 (Feb 16, 2021)

Anyone linked the latest model Astell & Kern Alpha to a Cayin C9?
If so, were there any improvements or other notable differences?
Asking as the A&K Alpha already has a beefy Headphone Amplifier built in and seeking views if the investment of the C9 is worthwhile.
In addition, I believe the Line Out setting of the Alpha is still amplified and am needing a clarification of this fact and of it's effectiveness through the Cayin C9.
Many thanks to all.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 16, 2021)

Theoretically, the amp needs to amplify the signals only.  But that is a perfect ideal worlds.  Is there perfections that is existed ? NOPE!!!  Even OPAmps have their own Data that pulses, responds, raise times....etc are published, and they varied from each another (to claim and even think all amplifier sound the same is just ridiculous)

Once you amplify something, you are meant to change that something into something larger while trying to keep it as original as possible.  Try inflating a balloon and see if it stays the exact shape as when it wasn’t inflated ? Supposedly you only blow air into it ....

Why is the Line In and Pre In are so different on the C9 ? Because the C9 does amplifications so well, and I meant the Dynamic Range, SNR, the Crosstalk...etc... are super high...even higher than many Desktop amplifier.  So what does that mean ? It means the C9 is super duper sensitive to Source, period.  I realized this after listening to different Sources VS my desktop amp and reread the specifications again and again.

Line out in many sources as @Andykong stated, are blurry by the makers, some have a pseudo line out and some has true Line Out.  In some case that even volume controls would be effecting the quality of the sources as well...

trying To explain all this is very mind blowing .... sometimes I am lost in what I try to explains, but give the C9 a try and you will hear the differences.  *The C9 is just that mind blowing good*


----------



## jmills8

zen87192 said:


> Anyone linked the latest model Astell & Kern Alpha to a Cayin C9?
> If so, were there any improvements or other notable differences?
> Asking as the A&K Alpha already has a beefy Headphone Amplifier built in and seeking views if the investment is worthwhile.
> In addition, I believe the Line Out setting of the Alpha is still amplified and am needing a clarification of this fact and of it's effectiveness through the Cayin C9.
> Many thanks to all.


Beefy like 900 mw ?


----------



## twister6

brannigan said:


> I just tried doing so. Way too much noise. Doesn’t work.



I would guess you are using very sensitive IEMs, like Campfire Audio?  There is no way around it, Andromeda and Solaris will have a noticeable hissing.  I just tested with N6ii E02 (with LO set to low) going to C9 (low gain setting) and the hissing is quite loud regardless of SS or Tube or A or AB.  Doing the same with PAW S1, now you making it even worse because you are not connected to LO but a headphone output, thus you are double-amping your audio path.

Again, keep in mind, this is ONLY the issue with very sensitive IEMs like Andro/Solaris and some 64 Audio and Empire.  Those obviously don't need amplification.  They would benefit from NuTube coloring and when you are playing "busy" multi-layered tracks you won't hear hissing.  But if you are listening to instrumental or classical where a black background is important, I wouldn't recommend using sensitive IEMs with C9.


----------



## brannigan

Perhaps a trivial question. I see in all the marketing material that the power LED upfront in green in color. However in my unit it is white. Can anyone confirm that this is the way it should be ?


----------



## bluestorm1992

brannigan said:


> Perhaps a trivial question. I see in all the marketing material that the power LED upfront in green in color. However in my unit it is white. Can anyone confirm that this is the way it should be ?


It is white.


----------



## twister6 (Feb 16, 2021)

brannigan said:


> Perhaps a trivial question. I see in all the marketing material that the power LED upfront in green in color. However in my unit it is white. Can anyone confirm that this is the way it should be ?



White color


----------



## wgkwgk

I have a C9 incoming.  Bluestorm1992 deserves full blame!!!
I can't wait.  (R6 2020 as line out.)


----------



## bluestorm1992

wgkwgk said:


> I have a C9 incoming.  Bluestorm1992 deserves full blame!!!
> I can't wait.  (R6 2020 as line out.)


Welcome to her party and hope you will like it! Please share some thoughts after getting it. 

Also, mind sharing what gears you are planning to pair with C9 as well? Do you do IEMs or just headphones.


----------



## zen87192

Oooo... Sorry... Am I looking at some figures that are not the right ones to look at?


----------



## newworld666

After all these interesting pages, I am still in trouble as it is not very clear about the real benefit of a portable amp like the C9 with :
-> difficult headphones with less than 90db sensitivity or high impedance of more than 300ohms ( Like HEDDphone or Beyerdynamic )
-> rather sensitive IEM like Sony IER-Z1R or even higher sensitivity like Beyerdynamic Xelento
do I have to consider, the C9 is today near to be the best result as a portable Hires Music,* though many desktop amps or good DAP* (Sony or other brands) will still give "fuller, more power and faster kicks and maybe even more detailed" results as desktop items or more compact portable DAP.


----------



## bluestorm1992

newworld666 said:


> After all these interesting pages, I am still in trouble as it is not very clear about the real benefit of a portable amp like the C9 with :
> -> difficult headphones with less than 90db sensitivity or high impedance of more than 300ohms ( Like HEDDphone or Beyerdynamic )
> -> rather sensitive IEM like Sony IER-Z1R or even higher sensitivity like Beyerdynamic Xelento



Unfortunately I don’t have any of the gears you mentioned here. Perhaps someone else can share their impressions.



> do I have to consider, the C9 is today near to be the best result as a portable Hires Music,* though many desktop amps or good DAP* (Sony or other brands) will still give "fuller, more power and faster kicks and maybe even more detailed" results as desktop items or more compact portable DAP.



Can you further clarify your question please? Do you mean that would better DAPs alone give better sound compared to C9 + a mid-tier DAP?


----------



## wgkwgk

bluestorm1992 said:


> Welcome to her party and hope you will like it! Please share some thoughts after getting it.
> 
> Also, mind sharing what gears you are planning to pair with C9 as well? Do you do IEMs or just headphones.


Certainly.

Cans: ZMF Auteur, Blackwoods; Grado GH2. IEMs: midtier Noble and Orvetti.


----------



## LabelH (Feb 16, 2021)

newworld666 said:


> After all these interesting pages, I am still in trouble as it is not very clear about the real benefit of a portable amp like the C9 with :
> -> difficult headphones with less than 90db sensitivity or high impedance of more than 300ohms ( Like HEDDphone or Beyerdynamic )
> -> rather sensitive IEM like Sony IER-Z1R or even higher sensitivity like Beyerdynamic Xelento
> do I have to consider, the C9 is today near to be the best result as a portable Hires Music,* though many desktop amps or good DAP* (Sony or other brands) will still give "fuller, more power and faster kicks and maybe even more detailed" results as desktop items or more compact portable DAP.



difficult headphones should be outside C9 realm.


Andykong said:


> Any headphones that claimed  portable friendly should be within our reach and performed well, examples are Meze Empyrean, Focal Stella, Clear, Clear Professional, Audio Technica ATH-AP2000Ti, Denon 7200/9200, AKG K872, Dan Clark Aeon2, ...
> 
> We can keep expanding the potential list but it become less important as we dig deeper.  To me, the real test are Abyss Diana V2 and HD800.  If C9 perform reasonably well with these two headphones, that would clear the doubt of a lot of potential customers.  The Diana is pretty compact by design, so make it portable physically but it is relatively power hungry, I personally are looking forward to a portable solution.  On the other hand, the HD800 is one of the benchmarks, if not the benchmark.  I hope  C9 can pass these two tests.
> 
> I have tried HD800 briefly, with C9 Engineering Sample in 4.4mm power amp mode and N6ii balanced pre out as source.  To be honest I have heard better HD800 in many occasions, even within $2000 DAC+Amp Solution (just a convenient amount, I have no intention to indicate the price of C9), but if I were to describe the problem of C9 Engineering Sample and N6ii combo with HD800, "not enough power" is not the number 1 or 2 concern.



C9 still can benefit good portable DAP (for example SP2K). I'm not technical person but i agree with this post (bold sentence) as this is make sense. There are not enough room for proper discrete? amplification in portable DAP.


Bosk said:


> ...
> From a technical standpoint I guess the big advantage in terms of amplification would be not needing huge amounts of wattage to push massive drivers, making a battery-powered supply adequate. In fairness there's battery-powered speaker amps out there (IIRC Vinnie Rossi used to make them?) but I've read they lack dynamics. That's where I find something like the C9 is valuable, because even if you listen to IEMs directly out of a DAP and the dynamics seem fine, they can probably be improved substantially by adding an external amp. Pity audiophiles don't talk about dynamics more often as they're such a vital component (along with a black background) to great sound... but harder to quantify than something like soundstage width.
> 
> The other thing I've always found about having "too much" amplification is it makes you realize your DAP may be struggling to deal with complex passages, to the point where -and perhaps this is just me- you've found yourself subconsciously wincing when listening to a familiar track and you know one is coming up. That was always the big drawback of my AK380, a wimpy built-in headphone amp that would 'sag' whenever too much was happening in the music, yet sound completely dynamically-different on say girl/guitar albums where there was a lot less work for it to do. *Things have come a long way, but I still don't have much faith in any DAP to deliver a cutting-edge dynamic performance using built-in amplfication alone - there simply isn't enough room for the circuitry! *Full disclaimer though, I've yet to hear the DX220MAX or Kann Alpha and do recognize things are trending in the right direction. Probably less of an issue for anyone listening to all-BA earphones too.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 16, 2021)

newworld666 said:


> After all these interesting pages, I am still in trouble as it is not very clear about the real benefit of a portable amp like the C9 with :
> -> difficult headphones with less than 90db sensitivity or high impedance of more than 300ohms ( Like HEDDphone or Beyerdynamic )
> -> rather sensitive IEM like Sony IER-Z1R or even higher sensitivity like Beyerdynamic Xelento
> do I have to consider, the C9 is today near to be the best result as a portable Hires Music,* though many desktop amps or good DAP* (Sony or other brands) will still give "fuller, more power and faster kicks and maybe even more detailed" results as desktop items or more compact portable DAP.


If you are wondering whether C9 + a decent dap can outperform TOTL DAPs, the answer is a big yes. My Cayin N6ii (E02) + C9 gives at least the same level of performance as Hugo 2.

In fact, C9 can even further benefit TOTL DAPs. We have such reports from the users of LPG, SP2000, LP P6 Pro.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

wgkwgk said:


> I have a C9 incoming.  Bluestorm1992 deserves full blame!!!
> I can't wait.  (R6 2020 as line out.)


He got me to buy an R6 2020.   The siren is calling me on this C9.   I must resist.


----------



## wgkwgk

Resistance is futile.   (Old Star Trek, for you youngin's)


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 16, 2021)

Is it just me ? Classical and well recordings are much better with DSD from a good LP setup and carefully ADC converted...and they comes with scratching noises (very low, but it is there)...and I am talking strictly AAA recordings

But if you rather enjoy the clean and clear floor noises with remastered albums and trade off for the fluidity and cohesiveness, uniqueness of timbre resonances, then it probably is just me who like it that way. LOL


----------



## DaYooper

Whitigir said:


> then it probably is just me who like it that way. LOL


You mean _WITH _the scratches?


----------



## Whitigir

DaYooper said:


> You mean _WITH _the scratches?


I meant the quality of the recordings , and I would gladly be suffering the scratches


----------



## kwilkins

Whitigir said:


> *The C9 is just that mind blowing good*



Whitigir, I have read many of your post on the C9 as well as the DMP-Z1.  How would you compare sound quality of the Max/C9 to the DMP-Z1?  If you had to choose between the two which would you pick?


----------



## Whitigir

kwilkins said:


> Whitigir, I have read many of your post on the C9 as well as the DMP-Z1.  How would you compare sound quality of the Max/C9 to the DMP-Z1?  If you had to choose between the two which would you pick?


If all sound quality is what counted, then DMP-Z1, but if you want to be able to stay more portable and not losing too much in the sound quality, together with flexibility, then Max or A02 or decent source and C9.  The DMP-Z1 is still king on the Soundstage front and black background


----------



## Frankie D

Whitigir said:


> I meant the quality of the recordings , and I would gladly be suffering the scratches


And with TOTL tables and records, you will not hear any scratches.


----------



## Whitigir

Frankie D said:


> And with TOTL tables and records, you will not hear any scratches.


There will still be some as the needles dragging itself on the LP , but that is depend on the ADC stage, and this is a very important “guy” in the chain


----------



## Frankie D

Whitigir said:


> There will still be some as the needles dragging itself on the LP , but that is depend on the ADC stage, and this is a very important “guy” in the chain


If I can play the album and not hear any scratches ( or maybe a couple, there might always be one), then shouldn’t the conversion be just as quiet?


----------



## kwilkins

Whitigir said:


> If all sound quality is what counted, then DMP-Z1, but if you want to be able to stay more portable and not losing too much in the sound quality, together with flexibility, then Max or A02 or decent source and C9.  The DMP-Z1 is still king on the Soundstage front and black background



Thanks.  Have you paired the C9 with WM1Z?  I'm wondering if you can keep the Sony sound of the WM1Z but improve it with the C9.


----------



## Whitigir

Frankie D said:


> If I can play the album and not hear any scratches ( or maybe a couple, there might always be one), then shouldn’t the conversion be just as quiet?


That is the thing, if you playback an LP on a large speakers setup system, the clean records and good TT will exhibit very little dragging noises, unless you sit next to the speakers.  However, once you converted it by the digital stages, these noises with the headphones is more apparent, also even more with sensitive IEMS And equipments 


kwilkins said:


> Thanks.  Have you paired the C9 with WM1Z?  I'm wondering if you can keep the Sony sound of the WM1Z but improve it with the C9.


I have not as my 1Z is long gone .  But I am sure @lumdicks can provide some impressions on this


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

Would it benefit to purchase the C9 if you already have the Dx220 Max?


----------



## Whitigir

PeteSTRADAMUS said:


> Would it benefit to purchase the C9 if you already have the Dx220 Max?


Definitely do IMO/E


----------



## lumdicks (Feb 16, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> I have not as my 1Z is long gone .  But I am sure @lumdicks can provide some impressions on this


I have also sold my 1Z but my experience with my modded 1A to C9 is quite good via line in option, especially if you want to drive demanding IEMs such as Z1R and CANS. With preamp in there is a significant noise of interference but I am not sure whether it is caused by imperfect shielding on my modded unit.


----------



## Whitigir

lumdicks said:


> I have also sold my 1Z but my experience with my molded 1A to C9 is quite good via line in option, especially if you want to drive demanding IEMs such as Z1R and CANS. With preamp in there is a significant noise of interference but I am not sure whether it is caused by imperfect shielding on my molded unit.


I am not surprised by the noises when you do preamp.  It is the things that Walkman do, and it comes from S-Master, once you amplify the signals, you also amplify this noise which isn’t much apparent when you have it at lower volume.  But if it is enjoyable using phone out then you should be just fine .  Thanks for the feedbacks


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 16, 2021)

For anyone who is curious about C9 and A02 + N6ii.  The line out on this A02 is like a Black hole!!  Now, I know why Cayin has no plan for a dedicated DAC with line out, because it has already been made !!

A02 with many options in Low Pass Filters is also very enjoyable.  I happened to have found my favorite setting for PCM files, the greatest soundstage in X/Y/Z For A02

LPF ===> DSD or 3rd order

PCM Antialiasing filter (digital filters) ====> Short Delay Sharp Roll-Off

DSD Antialiasing Filters ======> Wide Bandwidth

Pregain: High

I also played around with Pre Out or Line out, and I gotta say that I do prefer Line out into C9, which contradicts what I read and researched between Andy personal preferences and A02 technical specs. I found the Line out to have better extensions on upper high, quick and decisive low but also very punchy with great controls. This especially shines with Class A + Korg
The A02 is also very light, can stack on the C9 so nicely, especially shaves off a lot of weight from Max.  This also preserves the Max to be a stand alone player by itself !! A very worthy additions.  To anyone who can’t or refuse to grab Max as a dedicated source to the C9, I dearly recommend the N6II A02
The A02 is also surprisingly very Neutral tuning for AKM chips, Vocal is surprisingly well placed together with mid, a little denser highs when compare to Max just typical AKM vs Sabres again here, but bass and mid is very well balanced and neutral enough that it has great synergies with C9 while having a little different signatures Vs Max just exactly the way AKM vs Sabres should be


----------



## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> For anyone who is curious about C9 and A02 + N6ii.  The line out on this A02 is like a Black hole!!  Now, I know why Cayin has no plan for a dedicated DAC with line out, because it has already been made !!
> 
> A02 with many options in Low Pass Filters is also very enjoyable.  I happened to have found my favorite setting for PCM files, the greatest soundstage in X/Y/Z For A02
> 
> ...


I have been holding my desire to use A02 with N6ii these days, for the purpose of writing the review. My experience is similar: N6ii with A02 is such a great source for C9, which will make me "overstate" the potential of this DAP (or from using Andriod DAPs). Still, even with the E02 motherboard, N6ii + C9 is giving excellent performance.


----------



## brannigan (Feb 17, 2021)

Cayin says that they expect amps to last for 10 years at least. What’s the process when the korg nutube busts up in a few years. I read that they have a 30k hour time to failure.


----------



## Frankie D

brannigan said:


> Cayin says that they expect amps to last for 10 years at least. What’s the process when the korg nutube busts up in a few years. I read that they have a 300k hour time to failure.


300,000 hours?  Check my math, I get over 100 years at 8 hours per day if that is true.


----------



## jmills8

Frankie D said:


> 300,000 hours?  Check my math, I get over 100 years at 8 hours per day if that is true.


So after 101years then what ?


----------



## Frankie D

jmills8 said:


> So after 101years then what ?


We come out of hibernation.


----------



## bluestorm1992

brannigan said:


> Cayin says that they expect amps to last for 10 years at least. What’s the process when the korg nutube busts up in a few years. I read that they have a 300k hour time to failure.


I think it should be 30k hours, which would translate into 10 years at 8 hrs per day.


----------



## kion

Are the tubes replaceable by the user? or serviceable by sending them back to Cayin?


----------



## bluestorm1992

kion said:


> Are the tubes replaceable by the user? or serviceable by sending them back to Cayin?


I am sure Cayin will take care of it in warranty. Beyond that, I think people will soon find ways to mod the device. Look at what they have done with DMP-Z1.


----------



## kion

That would be interesting, I like the idea of rolling mini tubes!

With a 30k-hour lifespan, the likelihood of it failing after the warranty (2 yrs?) is probably small but not negligible. I'd be more than happy to pay Cayin to replace the tubes though, not that it will happen, but it would be good to have some peace of mind before buying.

Hopefully Cayin can clarify.


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> I am sure Cayin will take care of it in warranty. Beyond that, I think people will soon find ways to mod the device. Look at what they have done with DMP-Z1.


Why wait for 1 year if there is something needed to be done ? Lol ?

Is there something that needed to be done ? The only thing I see so far is the IC cables, batteries, and that is it! Everything else is superb as it is.  If you are using Max or A02 or similar with true and good line out 

Yes! Again! That little cables IC (InterConnect) is so very super duper important


----------



## mattmc1228

Thank you fellow Headfiers for your input.
My new rig!
Couldn’t be happier!!


----------



## Whitigir

mattmc1228 said:


> Thank you fellow Headfiers for your input.
> My new rig!
> Couldn’t be happier!!


Congratulations!! Welcome to the club!!


----------



## aaf evo

mattmc1228 said:


> Thank you fellow Headfiers for your input.
> My new rig!
> Couldn’t be happier!!



Tell me more about the Traillii changes


----------



## bluestorm1992

mattmc1228 said:


> Thank you fellow Headfiers for your input.
> My new rig!
> Couldn’t be happier!!


Congratz and welcome to the club! Look forward to your impressions of the wonderful pairing.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Also just to add, I am getting a pair of Verite Closed very soon. Will see how it works out with C9.


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> Also just to add, I am getting a pair of Verite Closed very soon. Will see how it works out with C9.


If it can drive my 800S at this level of satisfaction, then I don’t think any dynamic headphones could give it “any sweats”, unless Orthos


----------



## bluestorm1992

aaf evo said:


> Tell me more about the Traillii changes


Looks like he is super busy with his listening now haha.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 17, 2021)

Tonight I spent sometime to do a quick test - whether and how C9 can scale up with a desktop dedicated DAC. I paired it with my Burson Composer DAC with silver Dragon interconnect. I did some quick comparisons between Composer as the source versus N6ii (E02), and the results are quite clear: C9 sounds quite a lot better with the Composer. The sound is more relaxed and more spacious but without sacrificing the details. The dynamics and overall control of the music are also both improved.

Interestingly, N6ii (E02) and the Composer use the exact same DAC chip -ESS9038Q2M. Of course, I was not expecting them to give the same performance give the huge difference in size, power supply, components used, among many others. But still, it is glad to confirm that C9’s performance can scale up with better DACs.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 17, 2021)

I also want to throw in some quick findings in case someone encounters similar situations.

I was testing the pairing of Hugo 2 and C9. Hugo 2 does not have a true line-out function, so I have to use its regular headphone output as the source to C9. When C9 is set to the line-in mode, I can hear small distortions here and there. Changing the mode to Pre-amp eliminates the issue.

I think someone mentioned a similar problem earlier with other DAPs that do not have a true line-out, and the solution was to change the gain level of C9. However, this does not really apply in my case since I am doing the test with Diana V2, which has to be driven in high gain.

In short, if the DAP does not have a true line-out function and you need power from it, C9's Pre-amp mode is a better choice.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 18, 2021)

brannigan said:


> Cayin says that they expect amps to last for 10 years at least. What’s the process when the korg nutube busts up in a few years. I read that they have a 30k hour time to failure.


Oh, you switch to SolidState and enjoy another 20 years.  If you keep it that long .


----------



## brannigan

Has anyone tried pairing the sundara with the C9?


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 18, 2021)

aaf evo said:


> Tell me more about the Traillii changes


Looks like I will be receiving a review unit of the Traillii soon . Will certainly write about its pairing with C9 and compare it with Hugo 2.   The Elysium is arriving today.

My own Verite Closed is also arriving next week.


----------



## aaf evo

bluestorm1992 said:


> Looks like I will be receiving a review unit of the Traillii soon . Will certainly write about its pairing with C9 and compare it with Hugo 2.   The Elysium is arriving today.
> 
> My own Verite Closed is also arriving next week.



I hope you have good will power over your wallet.


----------



## bluestorm1992

aaf evo said:


> I hope you have good will power over your wallet.


My wife doesn't know about all this (yet). 🤫


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> Looks like I will be receiving a review unit of the Traillii soon . Will certainly write about its pairing with C9 and compare it with Hugo 2.   The Elysium is arriving today.
> 
> My own Verite Closed is also arriving next week.


I love it.   Whenever my wife rolls her eyes because another package comes in, or I order another IEM before the last one even arrives, I am going to point her to this post and tell her not to complain because it gets a lot worse.   Haha.


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I love it.   Whenever my wife rolls her eyes because another package comes in, or I order another IEM before the last one even arrives, I am going to point her to this post and tell her not to complain because it gets a lot worse.   Haha.


Haha ok. I have developed the skill to receive the package without her noticing.


----------



## xand (Feb 18, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I love it.   Whenever my wife rolls her eyes because another package comes in, or I order another IEM before the last one even arrives, I am going to point her to this post and tell her not to complain because it gets a lot worse.   Haha.



What you need to do is show her this and tell her you're considering it: https://monochrome-watches.com/pate...-repeater-cathedral-gongs-review-sound-price/






Then all personal audio purchases will seem very affordable.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> Haha ok. I have developed the skill to receive the package without her noticing.


You are not going to be able to hide those Verite Closed from your wife.    They are so huge on my head, my wife came to me and said, "did you get another pair of headphones?   Is that Koa wood?"     I said no, but told her I would get her a pair once ZMF starts making them with Koa.  Also, don't buy bling bling looking IEMs.  They notice those too.


----------



## bluestorm1992

xand said:


> What you need to do is show her this and tell her you're considering it: https://monochrome-watches.com/pate...-repeater-cathedral-gongs-review-sound-price/
> 
> 
> 
> Then all personal audio purchases will seem very affordable.


It opens my eyes to know that people can review the sound of watches. 😲



> HOW DOES THE PATEK PHILIPPE 5178G SOUND?​Since I’ve started writing about watches, I had the chance to listen to probably 20 or 30 different minute repeaters. I must admit that it usually is a pleasure to see the hammers working on the back and to listen to the music produced by the gongs. However, few gave me as much pleasure as this Patek Philippe 5178G. On some, I found the sound to be quite poor (a lack of harmonics and reverberation). On some, it was the speed at which the hammers struck the gongs that was not well regulated (the tempo was too fast or too slow, or even differs when striking the hours or the quarters). On many, the sound was just not loud enough. However, this is all very personal and should be seen as a subjective opinion.


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> It opens my eyes to know that people can review the sound of watches. 😲


Watches certainly have different tick “sounds” ....don’t go there LMAO.  Also the mechanism behind it as well.....


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> You are not going to be able to hide those Verite Closed from your wife.    They are so huge on my head, my wife came to me and said, "did you get another pair of headphones?   Is that Koa wood?"     I said no, but told her I would get her a pair once ZMF starts making them with Koa.  Also, don't buy bling bling looking IEMs.  They notice those too.


Got it, then it seems there are some confess I need to make.  Probably should start to consider buying something for her to hopefully get away from this purchase.


----------



## xand

bluestorm1992 said:


> It opens my eyes to know that people can review the sound of watches. 😲



Minute repeaters are quite uncommon... (and quite horrendously pricey).

Maybe try an alarm complication to start you off on mechanical watches which make noise? 

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/jaeger-lecoultre-master-control-memovox-hands-on

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/a-week-on-the-wrist-vulcain-nautical-cricket


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

xand said:


> What you need to do is show her this and tell her you're considering it: https://monochrome-watches.com/pate...-repeater-cathedral-gongs-review-sound-price/
> 
> 
> 
> Then all personal audio purchases will seem very affordable.


One of my best friends just bought a Ferrari.   We used to travel together for tennis tournaments on the mainland, he likes to go to the track to test drive cars.   Audio is cheap relative to these other hobbies.    Me, I have a 10 year old car.   So I think I'll just keep it for a couple more years and spend the extra money on audio.


----------



## Whitigir

xand said:


> Minute repeaters are quite uncommon... (and quite horrendously pricey).
> 
> Maybe try an alarm complication to start you off on mechanical watches which make noise?
> 
> ...


Some of those mechanical ticks, rolls can induce better deep sleep stage unconsciously during the nights  but please, for your wallet sake. D O N O T get there


----------



## bluestorm1992

xand said:


> Minute repeaters are quite uncommon... (and quite horrendously pricey).
> 
> Maybe try an alarm complication to start you off on mechanical watches which make noise?
> 
> ...


I have considered buying watches before, but end up going to simply the Apple watch caused you cannot be that high profile at school. 

Anyway, many gears to arrive, so hopefully many things to share soon with the pairing of C9.


----------



## xand (Feb 18, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> One of my best friends just bought a Ferrari.   We used to travel together for tennis tournaments on the mainland, he likes to go to the track to test drive cars.   Audio is cheap relative to these other hobbies.    Me, I have a 10 year old car.   So I think I'll just keep it for a couple more years and spend the extra money on audio.



Ah but you want to use watches for this, because they're tiny, don't take much space, and - yes - the one I linked is more expensive than a 2021 Ferrari F8 Tributo OR a 2021 Ferrari 812 Superfast in the U.S. (depending on options of course)



bluestorm1992 said:


> I have considered buying watches before, but end up going to simply the Apple watch caused you cannot be that high profile at school.



Oh just stick to the big 3(or 4), no one will even know. Audemars Piguet, Vacheron Constantin, Patek Philippe, A. Lange & Söhne.




bluestorm1992 said:


> Anyway, many gears to arrive, so hopefully many things to share soon with the pairing of C9.



Awesome!

I kinda want to try a Verite Closed too, but I don't want to buy it so I'm going to limit myself to reading your thoughts on the pairing. HAHAHA.


----------



## Frankie D

bluestorm1992 said:


> Looks like I will be receiving a review unit of the Traillii soon . Will certainly write about its pairing with C9 and compare it with Hugo 2.   The Elysium is arriving today.
> 
> My own Verite Closed is also arriving next week.


Could be another Traillii sale.  My best to your wallet.


----------



## Bosk

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I love it.   Whenever my wife rolls her eyes because another package comes in, or I order another IEM before the last one even arrives, I am going to point her to this post and tell her not to complain because it gets a lot worse.   Haha.


Invest in a post office box and a suitcase.


----------



## Bosk

xand said:


> What you need to do is show her this and tell her you're considering it: https://monochrome-watches.com/pate...-repeater-cathedral-gongs-review-sound-price/
> 
> 
> 
> Then all personal audio purchases will seem very affordable.


Indeed! Difference is you can stick a Patek in a bank vault knowing it will increase in value. Sadly not many audio purchases are like that, the occasional iconic headphone perhaps like the Orpheus or Sony R10 perhaps. Depreciation for electronics is particularly bad, though something like the C9 should maintain value far better than a DAP.


----------



## normie610

xand said:


> What you need to do is show her this and tell her you're considering it: https://monochrome-watches.com/pate...-repeater-cathedral-gongs-review-sound-price/
> 
> 
> 
> Then all personal audio purchases will seem very affordable.



And we’re not talking about minute repeater with other complications, otherwise it could easily go up to above $1 mn territory  I was a fan of horology, but realize that I can’t get a simple minute repeater without sacrificing my house, so in the end, an apple watch (and a bunch of IEMs, headphones & cameras) would suffice


----------



## wgkwgk

OK everyone,

First, bluestorm1992 and to an extent Whitigir, you are both responsible for the attached:

I love this setup.  Auteurs burned in.  The rest WIP.

Note: my wife just does not understand.  Totally.  She doesn't even want to give the cans a go.

I'm in heaven.  (FLAC, Tidal)


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 18, 2021)

wgkwgk said:


> OK everyone,
> 
> First, bluestorm1992 and to an extent Whitigir, you are both responsible for the attached:
> 
> ...


Congrats and welcome to the club! Glad to know that they suit your taste.

Just let your wife try one of her favorite tracks. I am sure she will immediately understand! But what if she then becomes a frequent user of your gears and C9?


----------



## bluestorm1992

wgkwgk said:


> OK everyone,
> 
> First, bluestorm1992 and to an extent Whitigir, you are both responsible for the attached:
> 
> ...


I noticed that you seem to be using the Pre mode of C9. Do you prefer that to the Line mode?


----------



## Whitigir

wgkwgk said:


> OK everyone,
> 
> First, bluestorm1992 and to an extent Whitigir, you are both responsible for the attached:
> 
> ...


How is that vs Liquid Plat? Lol

Welcome to the club


----------



## wgkwgk

bluestorm1992 said:


> I noticed that you seem to be using the Pre mode of C9. Do you prefer that to the Line mode?


Hey,
I couldn't get the non-preamp LI to work, so I followed the owner manual recommendations.

Am I not understanding something?


----------



## bluestorm1992

wgkwgk said:


> Hey,
> I couldn't get the non-preamp LI to work, so I followed the owner manual recommendations.
> 
> Am I not understanding something?


Can you describe how you are setting up the line out from Hiby DAP? Based on my understanding, so long as your cable is plugged into the line-out of the Hiby DAP, it automatically changes to line-out mode. After that, changing C9 to the line mode should do it.

When doing the test, please make sure NOT to have your headphones on your ears until you have finished setting up and testing the volume.


----------



## wgkwgk

wgkwgk said:


> Hey,
> I couldn't get the non-preamp LI to work, so I followed the owner manual recommendations.
> 
> Am I not understanding something?





bluestorm1992 said:


> Can you describe how you are setting up the line out from Hiby DAP? Based on my understanding, so long as your cable is plugged into the line-out of the Hiby DAP, it automatically changes to line-out mode. After that, changing C9 to the line mode should do it.
> 
> When doing the test, please make sure NOT to have your headphones on your ears until you have finished setting up and testing the volume.


I'm plugged into Hiby balanced LO.


----------



## bluestorm1992

wgkwgk said:


> I'm plugged into Hiby balanced LO.


Then does C9 give no sound in LO mode? Or some other things happen.


----------



## bluestorm1992

wgkwgk said:


> I'm plugged into Hiby balanced LO.


I think I figured what the problem was. Hiby’s line-out is not fixed at max volume, so you have to somewhat turn the volume up even in line-out mode.

However, do be a bit careful and try not to turn it too high, otherwise, it may blow your ears when you switch back to using the DAP alone in the future.


----------



## mattmc1228

That is correct,
I am putting my R8 volume @90 (line out) and use the C9 volume starting at the lowest setting and go from there.
the R8 turbo and gain settings will become disabled as you are now using the C9.
Enjoy!!


----------



## Whitigir

So R8 still uses Digital volumes even in Line out ? Hah! Another reason to go with A02 or Max for line out


----------



## mattmc1228

Lol,
I’m done!!


----------



## mattmc1228

Well,
let me take that back, i’m done for now lol
i stream all my music so i prefer the speed and response from the Hiby also full MQA unfolding 
I believe the A02 and the R8 both have the AKM4497. So not sure what i would gain switching Dac’s again.


----------



## Whitigir

mattmc1228 said:


> Well,
> let me take that back, i’m done for now lol
> i stream all my music so i prefer the speed and response from the Hiby also full MQA unfolding
> I believe the A02 and the R8 both have the AKM4497. So not sure what i would gain switching Dac’s again.


A02 is a true line out.  It is a dedicated source.  It does MQA upto 8X though


----------



## bluestorm1992

mattmc1228 said:


> Well,
> let me take that back, i’m done for now lol
> i stream all my music so i prefer the speed and response from the Hiby also full MQA unfolding
> I believe the A02 and the R8 both have the AKM4497. So not sure what i would gain switching Dac’s again.


I think R8 will be good enough for a long time. Your gain from moving to any other DAP, IMO, is not going to worth the extra money spent. Just my 2cents .


----------



## mattmc1228

If i come across a good deal on the threads, i might try it


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 18, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> I think R8 will be good enough for a long time. Your gain from moving to any other DAP, IMO, is not going to worth the extra money spent. Just my 2cents .


I don’t think A02 is a DAP, it is a source lol! And I have not come across anything that get close to the Max line out.  Only the A02 can compete to it and there are a couple reasons.  But in some specific instances, the A02 outperforms Max as well, and so there is also another reason.

one reason being is that Max still utilize digital attenuation coming straight off the DAC ES9028Pro and A02 does not.  But At the same time, by using a dedicated battery for the Amp , Max can supply the line out power separately and away from the main battery that runs in the main DAC

So I would disagree about the gains not being worthy.  IMO, if you have a C9, you won’t hear all of it performances without A02 or Max, and that is a substantial improvements over any other half-way decent done Line out Dap


mattmc1228 said:


> If i come across a good deal on the threads, i might try it


You should! I am sure the improvements by going with A02 will be very obvious, if you are going to pair it to C9.

I am a little different , having the C9 now has made me to be more picky in looking for a Source rather than a DAP anymore.  I am sure A02 and C9 will keep me away from DAP for a while, unless that DAP has a real good and dedicated line out then May be


----------



## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> I don’t think A02 is a DAP, it is a source lol! And I have not come across anything that get close to the Max line out.  Only the A02 can compete to it and there are a couple reasons.  But in some specific instances, the A02 outperforms Max as well, and so there is also another reason.
> 
> one reason being is that Max still utilize digital attenuation coming straight off the DAC ES9028Pro and A02 does not.  But At the same time, by using a dedicated battery for the Amp , Max can supply the line out power separately and away from the main battery that runs in the main DAC
> 
> ...


A lot of people will value the flexibility from having a “traditional” DAP that can work by itself. N6ii + A02 is such a specialized device and this is what makes it so great. For many other users, they wouldn’t want to go though the switching motherboard thing every time they want to just take the DAP with them. With this, I think R8 is a great source that offers lots of flexible use cases.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 18, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> A lot of people will value the flexibility from having a “traditional” DAP that can work by itself. N6ii + A02 is such a specialized device and this is what makes it so great. For many other users, they wouldn’t want to go though the switching motherboard thing every time they want to just take the DAP with them. With this, I think R8 is a great source that offers lots of flexible use cases.


I agree about A02 being specific applications only.  However, I disagree the claim that it isn’t worth it to get.  It is worth every penny as much as C9.

The way I see it, while I could do what you just mentioned , a DAP that do half decent into C9 and a DAP that stand alone don’t even drive the Earbuds as decent as the C9 .  Instead of doing this , I rather have an A02 for C9, and then another DAP that can serve me alone by itself.  For example, I drive Z1R from Max, and even C9 can show a great benefit over Max....but stacking isn’t the way to pocket it and go, so Max can be pocketable and still does better than many other DAP.  But if I have to stack it up, I would do A02 and C9, while having Max idling on the side 

So this way I maximize the C9 performances (show me another setup that surpass this pairing and I will buy that source !!! Or DAP.). Then if I want to go portable, I will pick up another DAP


----------



## KickAssChewGum

Whitigir said:


> I agree about A02 being specific applications only.  However, I disagree the claim that it isn’t worth it to get.  It is worth every penny as much as C9.
> 
> The way I see it, while I could do what you just mentioned , a DAP that do half decent into C9 and a DAP that stand alone don’t even drive the Earbuds as decent as the C9 .  Instead of doing this , I rather have an A02 for C9, and then another DAP that can serve me alone by itself.  For example, I drive Z1R from Max, and even C9 can show a great benefit over Max....but stacking isn’t the way to pocket it and go, so Max can be pocketable and still does better than many other DAP.  But if I have to stack it up, I would do A02 and C9, while having Max idling on the side
> 
> So this way I maximize the C9 performances (show me another setup that surpass this pairing and I will buy that source !!! Or DAP.). Then if I want to go portable, I will pick up another DAP


I just bought the N6ii/A02 to pair with my C9 and, yes, even compared to the already very impressive SP2000/C9 pairing, this new combo really is something very special. The cleanliness of A02’s line out is extraordinary. Adding the C9 into my collection has been a total game changer. Bar none, the best audio purchase I have ever made!


----------



## xand

Whitigir said:


> So this way I maximize the C9 performances (show me another setup that surpass this pairing and I will buy that source !!! Or DAP.). Then if I want to go portable, I will pick up another DAP



Must it be portable...


----------



## Whitigir

xand said:


> Must it be portable...


Must, for sure .  Otherwise I can throw my desktop DAC at it lol


----------



## bluestorm1992

KickAssChewGum said:


> I just bought the N6ii/A02 to pair with my C9 and, yes, even compared to the already very impressive SP2000/C9 pairing, this new combo really is something very special. The cleanliness of A02’s line out is extraordinary. Adding the C9 into my collection has been a total game changer. Bar none, the best audio purchase I have ever made!


I am pleasantly surprised by N6ii + A02 as well.  IMO Cayin has turned a mid-tier DAP into a top-class source gear.


----------



## Whitigir

There! Welcome to the club


----------



## wgkwgk

Well, I had the N6ii (4-pack) ordered to A/B with my R6 2020.  I cancelled and bought the C9.  I liked my old R6 and the 2020 even more.  The C9 gives me tube portability.  My Liquid Platinum, which I dearly love, is my desktop amp.  Downside: not experiencing the N6. 
I'm  at my grail audio. That is after my ZMF VCs arrive...


----------



## bluestorm1992

wgkwgk said:


> Well, I had the N6ii (4-pack) ordered to A/B with my R6 2020.  I cancelled and bought the C9.  I liked my old R6 and the 2020 even more.  The C9 gives me tube portability.  My Liquid Platinum, which I dearly love, is my desktop amp.  Downside: not experiencing the N6.
> I'm  at my grail audio. That is after my ZMF VCs arrive...


I think you made the right move.  

BTW, have you been able to get the line mode working?


----------



## Whitigir

wgkwgk said:


> Well, I had the N6ii (4-pack) ordered to A/B with my R6 2020.  I cancelled and bought the C9.  I liked my old R6 and the 2020 even more.  The C9 gives me tube portability.  My Liquid Platinum, which I dearly love, is my desktop amp.  Downside: not experiencing the N6.
> I'm  at my grail audio. That is after my ZMF VCs arrive...





bluestorm1992 said:


> I think you made the right move.
> 
> BTW, have you been able to get the line mode working?


I agreed! The right move for sure.  If you want to get in portability and hifi , start out with 

1/ C9
2/ Source or DAP

I don’t know if there is anything like a USB Dongle that offer line out only and not amped out ? But IMO, C9 is the first and foremost important piece


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

wgkwgk said:


> Well, I had the N6ii (4-pack) ordered to A/B with my R6 2020.  I cancelled and bought the C9.  I liked my old R6 and the 2020 even more.  The C9 gives me tube portability.  My Liquid Platinum, which I dearly love, is my desktop amp.  Downside: not experiencing the N6.
> I'm  at my grail audio. That is after my ZMF VCs arrive...


I think you the person who can tell me what I want to know.   I have an R6 2020, a bottlehead crack OTL tube amp and a ZMF Verite closed headphone.   I love them all.   I've been pairing my R6 with my Hugo 2.

I am in the market for a portable tube amp because it's not practical to travel with my BHC even though I did it last summer.    How does the tube amp of the C9 compare to a full size tube amp?    I'd like to travel with my VC, but my favorite way to listen to them is with my BHC.    Does the C9 sound like a full size desktop tube amp?

I'd also like to see what the tube sound does to my IEMs.  Since the BHC is OTL, I can't drive them with it.


----------



## xand

Whitigir said:


> Must, for sure .  Otherwise I can throw my desktop DAC at it lol



Yeah I love portables.

So nice to listen in bed.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 19, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> I agreed! The right move for sure.  If you want to get in portability and hifi , start out with
> 
> 1/ C9
> 2/ Source or DAP
> ...


I totally agree with your ordering of importance.

In my test, C9 is kind of like the “equalizer” that removes the differences between TOTL DAPs and mid-tier DAPs. My N6ii (E02)’s performance as an independent DAP is nowhere near Lotoo PAW Gold or Hugo 2. However, the pairing of N6ii (E02) + C9 versus LPG + C9 gives really close performance, but with different sound signatures; and both of these pairings are at least as good as Hugo 2 to me in terms of sound quality, and much better than Hugo 2 in terms of output power.

From a complementary angle, this "equalizing effect" makes sense because after connecting DAPs with C9, only the DAC function in the DAPs is affecting the comparisons. It turns out that the difference in DAC function between different (decent) DAPs is not that big and seems to be much less noticeable than the difference in their AMPs function (which is now replaced by C9 as the Amp).


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> I totally agree with your ordering of importance.
> 
> In my test, C9 is kind of like the “equalizer” that removes the differences between TOTL DAPs and mid-tier DAPs. My N6ii (E02)’s performance as an independent DAP is nowhere near Lotoo PAW Gold or Hugo 2. However, the pairing of N6ii (E02) + C9 versus LPG + C9 gives really close performance, but with different sound signatures; and both of these pairings are at least as good as Hugo 2 to me in terms of sound signature, and much better than Hugo 2 in terms of output power.
> 
> From a complementary angle, this "equalizing effect" makes sense because after connecting DAPs with C9, only the DAC function in the DAPs is affecting the comparisons. It turns out that the DAC function between different (decent) DAPs is not that big and seems to be much less noticeable than the difference in their AMPs function (which is now replaced by C9 as the Amp).


How does the C9 sound with your R3 Pro?


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> How does the C9 sound with your R3 Pro?


I sold it a while ago, unfortunately. I got a Hugo 2 COAX Cable to be used between N6ii and Hugo 2 so the R3 pro is no longer needed.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 19, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> I totally agree with your ordering of importance.
> 
> In my test, C9 is kind of like the “equalizer” that removes the differences between TOTL DAPs and mid-tier DAPs. My N6ii (E02)’s performance as an independent DAP is nowhere near Lotoo PAW Gold or Hugo 2. However, the pairing of N6ii (E02) + C9 versus LPG + C9 gives really close performance, but with different sound signatures; and both of these pairings are at least as good as Hugo 2 to me in terms of sound signature, and much better than Hugo 2 in terms of output power.
> 
> From a complementary angle, this "equalizing effect" makes sense because after connecting DAPs with C9, only the DAC function in the DAPs is affecting the comparisons. It turns out that the DAC function between different (decent) DAPs is not that big and seems to be much less noticeable than the difference in their AMPs function (which is now replaced by C9 as the Amp).


My takes is that the differences between DAPs are all laying within the Amplifications stages.  Even their signatures are mainly contributed by the amplifications architecture and then the LPF choices of the tuning, and then choices of components and acoustic tuning.

But the main important factors is the Amp that was built into it.

So when you have a C9, you will considerably trim down your desires for any new DAP at all.  You will be like me, shifting the priorities toward Source!!! Luckily the A02 will answer all your needs.  *With 4 Amps features in one in C9 and 10 filters options in A02....your fun is almost boundless*

(2 LPF, 2 DSD filters, 6 digital filters) on A02.  The craziest things is that they do bring observable changes unlike other DAPs with AKM...I meant even SP2K didn’t bring about the observable differences as much as the king of the hill DMP Z1.  But I can tell you that A02 and the optional filters is about as observable as DMP

*This is your portable DMP Z1 stacks* that can even drive IEMS as well as HD800S ...*Streaming* as well
A02 + C9


----------



## wgkwgk

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I think you the person who can tell me what I want to know.   I have an R6 2020, a bottlehead crack OTL tube amp and a ZMF Verite closed headphone.   I love them all.   I've been pairing my R6 with my Hugo 2.
> 
> I am in the market for a portable tube amp because it's not practical to travel with my BHC even though I did it last summer.    How does the tube amp of the C9 compare to a full size tube amp?    I'd like to travel with my VC, but my favorite way to listen to them is with my BHC.    Does the C9 sound like a full size desktop tube amp?
> 
> I'd also like to see what the tube sound does to my IEMs.  Since the BHC is OTL, I can't drive them with it.


Does the C9 sound like a full-sized desktop tube amp?  Likely not.  But along with the obvious portability the C9 does sound really, really good.  Better than my Liquid Platinum?  Probably not.  As others have/will mention the C9 with the N6ii would be tube setup of choice.  Now, I've not used the heavy lifting tube amps that light up the whole neighborhood requirinf additional AC, but I've rolled enough tubes to say it's a huge rat hole and money pit.  I learned tons but I don't miss rolling.  It gets to be like "I just spent $600 on a  matched set of NOS Orange Globes and boy can I tell the difference."  Real or perceived, one had _better_ sense a difference (hopefully positive) after dropping $600!  But wait?!!!  Those Telefunkens are supposed to be more detailed and laidback--you know the ones made in that special factory in Heerling (or whatever).  Used in WWII radio equipment?  How cool is that!

You get the idea.  But as I said earlier I learned a _ton_!

My US$0.03


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

wgkwgk said:


> Does the C9 sound like a full-sized desktop tube amp?  Likely not.  But along with the obvious portability the C9 does sound really, really good.  Better than my Liquid Platinum?  Probably not.  As others have/will mention the C9 with the N6ii would be tube setup of choice.  Now, I've not used the heavy lifting tube amps that light up the whole neighborhood requirinf additional AC, but I've rolled enough tubes to say it's a huge rat hole and money pit.  I learned tons but I don't miss rolling.  It gets to be like "I just spent $600 on a  matched set of NOS Orange Globes and boy can I tell the difference."  Real or perceived, one had _better_ sense a difference (hopefully positive) after dropping $600!  But wait?!!!  Those Telefunkens are supposed to be more detailed and laidback--you know the ones made in that special factory in Heerling (or whatever).  Used in WWII radio equipment?  How cool is that!
> 
> You get the idea.  But as I said earlier I learned a _ton_!
> 
> My US$0.03


I spent more on tubes than I did on my Bottlehead Crack, but the sound with the ZMF Verite Closed is unbelievable.


----------



## Nostoi

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I spent more on tubes than I did on my Bottlehead Crack, but the sound with the ZMF Verite Closed is unbelievable.


I missed a bunch of posts. You have the C9 with VC? This is one reason I've preordered a C9. Can you share more impressions? I love the VC with my BX2 Plus, but if the C9 is able to successfully drive the VC, then I may just sell the BX2 Plus now.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Nostoi said:


> I missed a bunch of posts. You have the C9 with VC? This is one reason I've preordered a C9. Can you share more impressions? I love the VC with my BX2 Plus, but if the C9 is able to successfully drive the VC, then I may just sell the BX2 Plus now.


My VC is also arriving next week. Will be able to share some impressions afterwards.


----------



## Nostoi

bluestorm1992 said:


> My VC is also arriving next week. Will be able to share some impressions afterwards.


Excellent, look forward to it. Which type of VC did you get?


----------



## bluestorm1992

Nostoi said:


> Excellent, look forward to it. Which type of VC did you get?


I got an LNIB one - the seller said it was from a recent batch, but I am not sure which type it is.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> I got an LNIB one - the seller said it was from a recent batch, but I am not sure which type it is.


they are usually identified by the wood type and wood treatment (e.g. stabilized). Do you know the wood type?


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> they are usually identified by the wood type and wood treatment (e.g. stabilized). Do you know the wood type?


I will take a look at the pic sent by the seller.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Feb 19, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> I will take a look at the pic sent by the seller.


ZMF is currently selling Monkeypod.  This is what I have.

Or, you could get a custom stabilized version which is the ultimate turning lemons into lemonade process where ZMF takes imperfect wood, treats it and makes a completely custom, one-off product.

https://shop.zmfheadphones.com/products/verite-closed-stabilized-batch-2


----------



## wgkwgk

bluestorm1992 said:


> I noticed that you seem to be using the Pre mode of C9. Do you prefer that to the Line mode?


I'm now using the line mode.  Thanks!


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Whitigir said:


> I agreed! The right move for sure.  If you want to get in portability and hifi , start out with
> 
> 1/ C9
> 2/ Source or DAP
> ...


Sounds right.    What I like about it is if you like a sound signature of a product, you can scale it up with the C9.    I really love my Lotoo PAW S1, but it is really underpowered for my full sized headphones.   I'd love to get that sound signature.


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Sounds right.    What I like about it is if you like a sound signature of a product, you can scale it up with the C9.    I really love my Lotoo PAW S1, but it is really underpowered for my full sized headphones.   I'd love to get that sound signature.


I think Lotoo PAW 6K will work really well with C9. S1 should be OK but it does not have a dedicated line-out.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> I think Lotoo PAW 6K will work really well with C9. S1 should be OK but it does not have a dedicated line-out.


S1 and C9 pairing would be really weird.


----------



## Whitigir

Here is some thoughts on C9 .  More will come later.  If you have any questions, leave some comments there.  Thanks for watching


----------



## Nostoi

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> S1 and C9 pairing would be really weird.


I also have S1 and Paw 6K. Out of interest, I tried the S1 with my BX2 Plus the other day and it sounded superb. I'll be curious to see how it pairs with the C9 when I get it.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Nostoi said:


> I also have S1 and Paw 6K. Out of interest, I tried the S1 with my BX2 Plus the other day and it sounded superb. I'll be curious to see how it pairs with the C9 when I get it.


Whoa.    If I could get the S1 sound signature and tube amp sound on my ZMF VC when I travel, I'll have to buy a C9.   I'll wait for the impressions on both pairings.


----------



## Whitigir

This is one of the reason why I love being portable.  Great music everywhere and anytime


----------



## gazzington

I’m thinking of getting one of these to pair with my dx300. Hopefully it will be a good pairing


----------



## Bosk

wgkwgk said:


> Does the C9 sound like a full-sized desktop tube amp?  Likely not.  But along with the obvious portability the C9 does sound really, really good.  Better than my Liquid Platinum?  Probably not.  As others have/will mention the C9 with the N6ii would be tube setup of choice.  Now, I've not used the heavy lifting tube amps that light up the whole neighborhood requirinf additional AC, but I've rolled enough tubes to say it's a huge rat hole and money pit.  I learned tons but I don't miss rolling.  It gets to be like "I just spent $600 on a  matched set of NOS Orange Globes and boy can I tell the difference."  Real or perceived, one had _better_ sense a difference (hopefully positive) after dropping $600!  But wait?!!!  Those Telefunkens are supposed to be more detailed and laidback--you know the ones made in that special factory in Heerling (or whatever).  Used in WWII radio equipment?  How cool is that!
> 
> You get the idea.  But as I said earlier I learned a _ton_!
> 
> My US$0.03


That's so true. Tube rolling can be one of the most fun aspects of the hobby and people who haven't experienced NOS tubes might be surprised how much they can change the character of an amp (not just performance) which lets you to improve synergy. It can be fairly cheap with smaller/less-well-known tube types but if you're collecting something like vintage 300Bs I hope you own a dental practice!


----------



## bluestorm1992

gazzington said:


> I’m thinking of getting one of these to pair with my dx300. Hopefully it will be a good pairing


I believe @xand has this pairing with his Utopia.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 19, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> I believe @xand has this pairing with his Utopia.


I still take A02 with C9.  The 300 is nice to stay idling on the side for portability though


----------



## twister6

Whitigir said:


> I still take A02 with C9.  The 300 is nice to stay idling on the side for portability though



The only thing to keep in mind, N6ii is on Android 8.x and some of the apps (and their latest updates) are optimized to work better with Android 9/10.  But that is only if you are doing mostly streaming.  I don't have A02, but have been using N6ii w/E02 and R8 a lot lately for pair up with C9.


----------



## wgkwgk

twister6 said:


> The only thing to keep in mind, N6ii is on Android 8.x and some of the apps (and their latest updates) are optimized to work better with Android 9/10.  But that is only if you are doing mostly streaming.  I don't have A02, but have been using N6ii w/E02 and R8 a lot lately for pair up with C9.


Hey,

Do you think the R8 is an upgrade to the R6 2020?


----------



## woodcans

twister6 said:


> The only thing to keep in mind, N6ii is on Android 8.x and some of the apps (and their latest updates) are optimized to work better with Android 9/10.  But that is only if you are doing mostly streaming.  I don't have A02, but have been using N6ii w/E02 and R8 a lot lately for pair up with C9.




I spent several hours today with the iFi iDSD Signature via RCA out to the C9, driving UM MEST. What has been said about this amp is also true for me - the single biggest improvement in sound in my transportable setup so far. The difference in sound quality, in every respect, is just on another level. I am quite stunned at the experience. For those interested, the RCA outs on the iFi seem to be a true line out, bypassing volume control and 3d/xbass.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 19, 2021)

woodcans said:


> I spent several hours today with the iFi iDSD Signature via RCA out to the C9, driving UM MEST. What has been said about this amp is also true for me - the single biggest improvement in sound in my transportable setup so far. The difference in sound quality, in every respect, is just on another level. I am quite stunned at the experience. For those interested, the RCA outs on the iFi seem to be a true line out, bypassing volume control and 3d/xbass.


Congrats on getting the C9! I share the same experience that C9 really brings MEST to the next level. UM themselves is recommending this pairing. In fact, UM and Cayin are from the same city and have lots of collaborations. MEST is  among my favorites, so I am really glad that C9 can help to bring out its full potential.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

wgkwgk said:


> Hey,
> 
> Do you think the R8 is an upgrade to the R6 2020?


It would be interesting to compare R6 2020 + C9 vs R8.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 19, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> It would be interesting to compare R6 2020 + C9 vs R8.


I don’t think R8 is going to be close to the pairing of R6 + C9, but I will let the people with these gears draw the conclusion.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> I don’t think R8 is going to be close to the pairing of R6 + C9, but I will let the people with these gears draw the conclusion.


I hear the Siren's call of the C9.    I must resist.....


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 19, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I hear the Siren's call of the C9.    I must resist.....


If R8 did sound at the same level of LPGT, then my N6ii + C9 is WAY better than LPGT, so... 

Edit: let me try the VC first. Don’t want to be overhyped for C9.


----------



## michaelc

@Whitigir how is the synergy btw a02+C9 with Z1r?

Genuinely considering this combo if this is way better than LPGT or even Hugo2


----------



## Whitigir

michaelc said:


> @Whitigir how is the synergy btw a02+C9 with Z1r?
> 
> Genuinely considering this combo if this is way better than LPGT or even Hugo2


Pretty good, the Z1R dynamic is very strong, and soundstage is huge, the sound signatures has great synergies with one another.  Remember to have a Silver cables to complete the synergies btw.  I can’t speak for Hugo 2, but I am sure A02 + C9 will do better than LPGT alone for Z1R

though, the LPGT is a portable dap and the C9 with A02 is a stack.  So you need to take that into account


----------



## bluestorm1992

michaelc said:


> @Whitigir how is the synergy btw a02+C9 with Z1r?
> 
> Genuinely considering this combo if this is way better than LPGT or even Hugo2


In fact, not being able to drive Z1R very well was one of the reason that I sold my LPGT... Believe it or not, its 4.4 output does not do the justice to drive Z1R to its full potential.


----------



## michaelc (Feb 19, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> Pretty good, the Z1R dynamic is very strong, and soundstage is huge, the sound signatures has great synergies with one another.  Remember to have a Silver cables to complete the synergies btw.  I can’t speak for Hugo 2, but I am sure A02 + C9 will do better than LPGT alone for Z1R
> 
> though, the LPGT is a portable dap and the C9 with A02 is a stack.  So you need to take that into account


Many thanks.
I'm currently looking for a streaming DAP..seems like N6ii is a better option for CX300 now....

The "sound card" option give a better flexibility for n6ii


----------



## xand (Feb 19, 2021)

gazzington said:


> I’m thinking of getting one of these to pair with my dx300. Hopefully it will be a good pairing



I like it! As @bluestorm1992 mentioned I have this combo. It's brill.

Some brief impressions vs other contenders here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...dphone-amplifier.943135/page-84#post-16180708

@Whitigir - I would not even now consider the N6ii - apart from the dx300, I would only consider R6 2020 or R8 - for interface speed. But I want streaming and I know you don't...

The dx300 actually sounds slightly better in mango OS... And I only ever tested it briefly haha.

Edit: look at the entertaining stuff you can stream (but I would never buy)!


----------



## immortalsoul

Has any of you tried the Woo audio wa8? How do the two compare? Thank you!


----------



## Whitigir

xand said:


> I like it! As @bluestorm1992 mentioned I have this combo. It's brill.
> 
> Some brief impressions vs other contenders here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...dphone-amplifier.943135/page-84#post-16180708
> 
> ...


Oh for sure the MangoOS is what I am in on Ibasso for


----------



## michaelc

bluestorm1992 said:


> In fact, not being able to drive Z1R very well was one of the reason that I sold my LPGT... Believe it or not, its 4.4 output does not do the justice to drive Z1R to its full potential.



Then I will skip audition LPGT Ti...lol
I'm waiting to demo C9 unit but need to wait till end of March 2021....


----------



## twister6

Quite a few questions here.  Don't want to spend too much time in Cayin thread talking about Hiby DAPs, but R6 2020 (updated version of R6 Pro) is mid-fi level DAP while R8 is their flagship.  A company will not be taken seriously if they sell a flagship at a premium price without it being an upgrade of their mid-fi level product 

If you are comparing R6 2020 w/C9 to R8 w/C9 where the internal amp section of either DAPs is taken out of the equation, then main focus of comparison will be your preference between ES9038Q2M (R6 2020) and AK4497 (R8) DACs.

And yes, adding C9 will be an upgrade to both R6 2020 and R8.  I will even go as far as to say that adding C9 to N8 will be an upgrade over the N8 tube output


----------



## Whitigir

twister6 said:


> The only thing to keep in mind, N6ii is on Android 8.x and some of the apps (and their latest updates) are optimized to work better with Android 9/10.  But that is only if you are doing mostly streaming.  I don't have A02, but have been using N6ii w/E02 and R8 a lot lately for pair up with C9.


You know Alex ? I am happily waiting for the successor N9 with similar modular design and has a true line out source that can run Snapdragon 880 and maybe dual AK9944EQ


----------



## bluestorm1992

michaelc said:


> Then I will skip audition LPGT Ti...lol
> I'm waiting to demo C9 unit but need to wait till end of March 2021....


I have heard that LPGT Ti is quite a lot better than LPGT, but of course, I did not own it so cannot confirm. Maybe it will be good for Z1R. However, LPGT Ti is almost as expensive as R8 + C9, and more expensive than DX300 + C9.

Also, if you only want one DAP, I would recommend DX300 over N6ii for its more flexible use cases. N6ii is great for its combo with A02, but otherwise, it is a mediocre DAP for both OS and sound quality in today's standard.


----------



## xand

Whitigir said:


> You know Alex ? I am happily waiting for the successor N9 with similar modular design and has a true line out source that can run Snapdragon 880 and maybe dual AK9944EQ



I predict that by the time even snapdragon 865 daps are out, 4499 won't be totl at akm.. 🤣


----------



## twister6

xand said:


> I predict that by the time even snapdragon 865 daps are out, 4499 won't be totl at akm.. 🤣



... and also after AKM factory fire, some will think twice about putting all their eggs in one "dac manufacturer" basket


----------



## lumdicks

bluestorm1992 said:


> If R8 did sound at the same level of LPGT, then my N6ii + C9 is WAY better than LPGT, so...
> 
> Edit: let me try the VC first. Don’t want to be overhyped for C9.


Indeed none of my TOTL DAPs come in close to my modded 1A (with @MrWalkman new midnight FW) with C9, on a standalone basis, with all my IEMs and CANs.

Agreed with @Whitigir that owning C9 will diminish the want and need of DAP upgrade. Damn I have once owned N6-ii and seems that I need to get it back with A02 as the designated source pairing with my C9.


----------



## lumdicks

bluestorm1992 said:


> In fact, not being able to drive Z1R very well was one of the reason that I sold my LPGT... Believe it or not, its 4.4 output does not do the justice to drive Z1R to its full potential.


LPGT Ti is better in this regard, but still behind the performance of the stack of C9. The AMP does make the key difference here!


----------



## Vitaly2017

twister6 said:


> ... and also after AKM factory fire, some will think twice about putting all their eggs in one "dac manufacturer" basket




I like akm I think its one of the best dac. Name me one better? Ess and akm are dominating the market


----------



## bluestorm1992

lumdicks said:


> Indeed none of my TOTL DAPs come in close to my modded 1A (with @MrWalkman new midnight FW) with C9, on a standalone basis, with all my IEMs and CANs.
> 
> Agreed with @Whitigir that owning C9 will diminish the want and need of DAP upgrade. Damn I have once owned N6-ii and seems that I need to get it back with A02 as the designated source pairing with my C9.


Thanks for confirming how the C9 stack compares with other (standalone) TOTL DAPs!

Also, it will be great if Cayin will release N7ii soon and can still have A02 work with it, but so far no report of this...


----------



## xand

Vitaly2017 said:


> I like akm I think its one of the best dac. Name me one better? Ess and akm are dominating the market



Well iFi Diablo uses Ti/burr brown and DX300 uses Cirrus Logic..

I am pretty sure implementation matters more than chip - for example just look at the C9 comparisons between R6 2020 and R8, and with a desktop dac...

Also, "current end game" is hilarious.


----------



## Vitaly2017

xand said:


> Well iFi Diablo uses Ti/burr brown and DX300 uses Cirrus Logic..
> 
> I am pretty sure implementation matters more than chip - for example just look at the C9 comparisons between R6 2020 and R8, and with a desktop dac...
> 
> Also, "current end game" is hilarious.




There is a reason why akm is widely used in daps and also why dmp z1 using it...

The other dacs offer not as smooth sound like the velvety of the akm.

I heard them all pretty much and so far I find akm the best sounding.


----------



## masahito24@chart

Been doing some DAP rolling. I don’t have A02 module but the A01. Out of these id pick either the P6 pro or 1Z for on the go and the N6ii strictly for streaming. So far so good, the C9 has surpassed expectations👍🏼


----------



## Vitaly2017

masahito24@chart said:


> Been doing some DAP rolling. I don’t have A02 module but the A01. Out of these id pick either the P6 pro or 1Z for on the go and the N6ii strictly for streaming. So far so good, the C9 has surpassed expectations👍🏼





I would pick dmp and call it a day for ever 😅😃


----------



## masahito24@chart

Vitaly2017 said:


> I would pick dmp and call it a day for ever 😅😃


I agree, but its a beast to carry around. While the C9 stack might be a bit much, its manageable


----------



## xand (Feb 19, 2021)

masahito24@chart said:


> I agree, but its a beast to carry around. While the C9 stack might be a bit much, its manageable



Does the c9 add anything to the dmpz1? 🤣

(if so, sorry for adding to the weight.. 🤣)

Oh and if it makes you feel better, the case I use for carrying my setup from home to office to etc. is 5kg alone (without anything inside it.. and I have a bunch of foam and a divider inside)...


----------



## masahito24@chart

xand said:


> Does the c9 add anything to the dmpz1? 🤣
> 
> (if so, sorry for adding to the weight.. 🤣)


LOL, I actually haven't spent much time with the C9/DMP, its mostly been tied to the P6 Pro and my Diana Phi. I accidently got in the P6 Pro, C9, N6ii, MDR-Z1R all this past week. I think I made a huge mistake since it's been a week of mixing and matching. I need to break them in before I really sit down and take a listen.


----------



## bluestorm1992

masahito24@chart said:


> LOL, I actually haven't spent much time with the C9/DMP, its mostly been tied to the P6 Pro and my Diana Phi. I accidently got in the P6 Pro, C9, N6ii, MDR-Z1R all this past week. I think I made a huge mistake since it's been a week of mixing and matching. I need to break them in before I really sit down and take a listen.


I hear you. Plus, you potentially want to try different modes of C9 in your pairings to find the best match, so this is one more thing in the equation to consider.   I am rolling 3 DAPs for its pairing with C9 and it is already a lot of work, but a lot of fun as well.


----------



## Whitigir

masahito24@chart said:


> LOL, I actually haven't spent much time with the C9/DMP, its mostly been tied to the P6 Pro and my Diana Phi. I accidently got in the P6 Pro, C9, N6ii, MDR-Z1R all this past week. I think I made a huge mistake since it's been a week of mixing and matching. I need to break them in before I really sit down and take a listen.


Just get an A02  lol


bluestorm1992 said:


> Thanks for confirming how the C9 stack compares with other (standalone) TOTL DAPs!
> 
> Also, it will be great if Cayin will release N7ii soon and can still have A02 work with it, but so far no report of this...


would be nice to have the A02 module swappable into an N6III with upgraded processor main body


----------



## xand

Whitigir said:


> Just get an A02  lol
> 
> would be nice to have the A02 module swappable into an N6III with upgraded processor main body



Not really.

What you/we really want is an N9 with LO, 4499, 7"(?) screen, Snapdragon 765 or better. Should be doable under USD 4k (retail)


----------



## masahito24@chart

bluestorm1992 said:


> I hear you. Plus, you potentially want to try different modes of C9 in your pairings to find the best match, so this is one more thing in the equation to consider.   I am rolling 3 DAPs for its pairing with C9 and it is already a lot of work, but a lot of fun as well.


Haha, right! Taking my time and figuring out which setup pairs the best. I did take a sneak peak though and they all play nicely with the C9 which is awesome. 


Whitigir said:


> Just get an A02  lol
> 
> would be nice to have the A02 module swappable into an N6III with upgraded processor main body


Dang, ok ok. The A02 is on the list for the next purchase, hopefully within the next week or two.


----------



## Ojisan

Whitigir said:


> Just get an A02  lol
> 
> would be nice to have the A02 module swappable into an N6III with upgraded processor main body



Just saw your review video, nice! So a 3-way or what ever is in order N6ii/A02 or MAX or M8 for source?


----------



## Whitigir

M8 doesn’t have good synergies with C9.  Max and A02 is highly recommended


----------



## Ojisan

Whitigir said:


> M8 doesn’t have good synergies with C9.  Max and A02 is highly recommended


Too much lower bloat or lack of clarity with M8?


----------



## Whitigir

Ojisan said:


> Too much lower bloat or lack of clarity with M8?


It is kinda a warm on warm thing and became a little too much ?


----------



## Ojisan

Whitigir said:


> It is kinda a warm on warm thing and became a little too much ?


Thanks, thought that might be the case.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 20, 2021)

Ojisan said:


> Thanks, thought that might be the case.


It is the same as Dx300 .  The max and or A02 are like matches in heaven for C9.  I am surprised that Cayin given release of these 2 separately (A02-C9) and seems not related to each another, but they are defintely aimed to enhance one another in a combination .  Definitely is the case of carefully “in house designed and engineered for one another”

This is the tip top of the ability to produce Hi-End portable system from and by Cayin.  It is jaw dropping good and mind blowing addictive.

You can’t go wrong with either A02 or Max.  A02 is a more dedicated source than Max though


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 20, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> It is the same as Dx300 .  The max and or A02 are like matches in heaven for C9.  I am surprised that Cayin given release of these 2 separately (A02-C9) and seems not related to each another, but they are defintely aimed to enhance one another in a combination .  Definitely is the case of carefully “in house designed and engineered for one another”
> 
> This is the tip top of the ability to produce Hi-End portable system from and by Cayin.  It is jaw dropping good and mind blowing addictive.
> 
> You can’t go wrong with either A02 or Max.  A02 is a more dedicated source than Max though


They originally tried to release them together. In fact, A02 and C9 were announced in the same event hosted by Cayin. It is just that the production of C9 got seriously delayed because some parts (the volume control unit) arrived much later than expected.  

Attached is a pic from their official Weibo. Looking really good for the combo. Glad that I have them both now.


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> They originally tried to release them together. In fact, A02 and C9 were announced in the same event hosted by Cayin. It is just that the production of C9 got seriously delayed because some parts (the volume control unit) arrived much later than expected.
> 
> Attached is a pic from their official Weibo. Looking really good for the combo. Glad that I have them both now.


Oh no wonder why !! Lol !!! I am glad my ears still work, but at the same time I am sad for my wallet


----------



## wgkwgk

With you guys praising the A02+C9, I  feel rather left out with my (lowly) R6 2020+C9!!!


----------



## Ojisan

Whitigir said:


> It is the same as Dx300 .  The max and or A02 are like matches in heaven for C9.  I am surprised that Cayin given release of these 2 separately (A02-C9) and seems not related to each another, but they are defintely aimed to enhance one another in a combination .  Definitely is the case of carefully “in house designed and engineered for one another”
> 
> This is the tip top of the ability to produce Hi-End portable system from and by Cayin.  It is jaw dropping good and mind blowing addictive.
> 
> You can’t go wrong with either A02 or Max.  A02 is a more dedicated source than Max though



No doubt A02-C9 is meant to go together!

So instead of waiting for N7, maybe DX300 USB out -> N6ii/A02 - C9? lol


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 20, 2021)

Ojisan said:


> No doubt A02-C9 is meant to go together!
> 
> So instead of waiting for N7, maybe DX300 USB out -> N6ii/A02 - C9? lol


Why USB out ? You meant streaming ?  If you are using USB out and streaming, why not IPhone 12 Pro  ?


----------



## Ojisan

Whitigir said:


> Why USB out ? You meant streaming ?  If you are using USB out and streaming, why not IPhone 12 Pro  ?


lol yeah, phone would do. I figured DX300's interface without phone/txt interrupt might be desirable  Heck of a stack in any case!


----------



## Whitigir

Ojisan said:


> lol yeah, phone would do. I figured DX300's interface without phone/txt interrupt might be desirable  Heck of a stack in any case!


Just don’t put a sim into it , or buy a data only sim LOL


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

wgkwgk said:


> With you guys praising the A02+C9, I  feel rather left out with my (lowly) R6 2020+C9!!!


That's a great combination.    Why do you fell that way?    I'm thrilled with my R6 2020 + Hugo 2.

I feel the C9 is just catching up those in the DAP world to the portable DAC/Amp world.    Hopefully the competition will force Chord to come up with a Hugo 3 or transportable Chord TT2 and improve their software.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 20, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> That's a great combination.    Why do you fell that way?    I'm thrilled with my R6 2020 + Hugo 2.
> 
> I feel the C9 is just catching up those in the DAP world to the portable DAC/Amp world.    Hopefully the competition will force Chord to come up with a Hugo 3 or transportable Chord TT2 and improve their software.


I don’t think C9 is catching up anything.  DAC/Amp stack in portable world hasn’t been worth it for me for a long time.

Losing the ability to portably moving around, also dealing with Interconnect and not having a real performances gain that is worth the trade offs.  Also typically these stack are either too low level to drive IEMs *only* or high power but can’t drive IEMS (too loud bad volume control, hisses).  If I had to do this, I would stick to desktop systems

C9 is the first Amp that allows the use case of both IEMS due to the volume control and the power to drive headphones and can be portable.  With removable batteries

C9 isn’t playing any catching up game, it is leading both the sections of DAC/Amp world and also shining the way for the DAP folks to explore better performances.  It satisfy both IEMS users and headphones alike.  You are looking at 4000mW at 16ohms and 123 SNR


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 20, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> That's a great combination.    Why do you fell that way?    I'm thrilled with my R6 2020 + Hugo 2.
> 
> I feel the C9 is just catching up those in the DAP world to the portable DAC/Amp world.    Hopefully the competition will force Chord to come up with a Hugo 3 or transportable Chord TT2 and improve their software.


I would agree with this assessment, especially when driving IEM, but also noted that DAP + Hugo 2 is not really portable while DAP + C9 is. The other advantages this DAP + C9 combo offers is the Android interface and the flexibility I pairing the DAP to change the sound signature of the combo.


----------



## xand

Whitigir said:


> C9 isn’t playing any catching up game, it is leading both the sections of DAC/Amp world and also shining the way for the DAP folks to explore better performances.  It satisfy both IEMS users and headphones alike.  You are looking at 4000mW at 16ohms and 123 SNR



You're basing your numbers on the manufacturer claims? I think you should be aware that the manufacturer claim for the iFi Diablo (which is a DAC/Amp) is 4,980 mW (@ 32 Ohm) and 120 SNR...  (and it's also  less than half the price)... 

This doesn't mean the Diablo is better (I demoed it and I don't think it's better ), but ... not sure the stats make a convincing argument.

And actually, while I don't think Cayin (or iFi) is intentionally being inaccurate, I would wait for an independent third party to publish measurements before making any stats based claim.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 20, 2021)

xand said:


> You're basing your numbers on the manufacturer claims? I think you should be aware that the manufacturer claim for the iFi Diablo (which is a DAC/Amp) is 4,980 mW (@ 32 Ohm) and 120 SNR...  (and it's also  less than half the price)...
> 
> This doesn't mean the Diablo is better (I demoed it and I don't think it's better ), but ... not sure the stats make a convincing argument.
> 
> And actually, while I don't think Cayin (or iFi) is intentionally being inaccurate, I would wait for an independent third party to publish measurements before making any stats based claim.


Well, at least that is what I do when I make decisions to buy.  I don’t buy Diablo not because it is Cheaper or the specs isn’t impressive.  The post above were so say that I don’t agree to call C9 is catching up in any game, the C9 is leading the games for dedicated portable amplifier, period.  I buy C9 blindly , or jump in head first because .

1/ C9 is true balanced tubes amp with balanced out regardless of source

2/ it can drive both IEMS and Headphones alike

3/ I need analog input and I don’t need built in DAC.  I want dedicated Amp

4/ I want to utilize both Class A and class AB

5/ I am a fan of discrete , I DIY discrete PSU, amplifier and modifying DAC stages with discrete ...etc...I freaking love discrete components

6/ Removable batteries.  Yeah, I want to be able to use my amp 20 years from now with batteries that I can swap out myself

Those are why I am here....and everyone should know that I was never in for Cayin.  Since I was never a fan of N8, and their customer services, and that was from a couple years back.   Now, Musicteck has made it easier for services, and act as customer services, so I gave Cayin another chance and.....hell, they have made me a fan


----------



## xand (Feb 20, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> Well, at least that is what I do when I make decisions to buy.  I don’t buy Diablo not because it is Cheaper or the specs isn’t impressive.  The post above were so say that I don’t agree to call C9 is catching up in any game, the C9 is leading the games for dedicated portable amplifier, period.



Ah, so what you mean is:

1. DAPs alone were already better than DAC/Amps (and you're not actually commenting on the C9?); and

2, C9 amplification is better than any other portable DAC/Amp?


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> I would agree with this assessment, especially when driving IEM, but also noted that DAP + Hugo 2 is not really portable while DAP + C9 is. The other advantages this DAP + C9 combo offers is the Android interface and the flexibility I pairing the DAP to change the sound signature of the combo.



To me, portable is iPhone + Lotoo paw S1 + iem.   

You plan to walk around with c9 + dap?   What kind of case do you have for that?

Not disagreeing.   I think we have different definitions of portable.


----------



## xand

I think most would agree that DMP-Z1 +C9 is the limit of portable..

Hmm but DAP + Hugo 2 then is also portable.

Hmm.

lollolo


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 20, 2021)

xand said:


> Not sure there's much scope to disagree with that claim (there's only the BX200 Plus, and Oriolus BA300S currently purchasable?) - but are you also saying that it's better than all portable DAC/Amps?
> 
> @HiFiHawaii808 said "C9 is catching up those in the DAP world to the portable DAC/Amp world"...
> 
> *Edit*: Actually - you ARE claiming that? So isn't what HifiHawaii808 said by definition accurate? lol.


No, C9 is not only here to show the people that they need to stack it up to benefits.  Even though stacking up will benefit for sure.

My idea is that “is it worth it to stack up” ? _It has never been “worth it”_ _previously_ IME, and there are more than just Oriolus , BX2, there are many more portable amplifier available and had been for a while.

The C9 is here to show both, it is “Worth it to stack up” and that “stacking up is beneficial”

So , no, C9 isn’t for people from DAP users to catch-up the game with DAC/Amp portable users.  The C9 is top of the chain for DAC/Amp Portable users (drive both IeMS and headphones), and because of that, it is totally Worth it to stack it up even if you have always been so diverted between either DAP alone or Desktop alone, no stacking up, and this was me for a long time.

I have come to the point that If I now have to tether at a desk and sit still for a headphone system, I rather sit on my couch and slam my speakers. *Headphones should be able to follow you wherever you go.*  The C9 has now further stretching these marks and allowing the goals to be closer

Technically a dedicated Amp + a dedicated Source is better than DAC/Amp.  As I mentioned a while ago

1/ *Cross talk*: technically using separated power sources (separate batteries) and having separated power regulators and power rails (separated power supplies), will always have better crosstalk , measurable, than having both running from the same batteries and supplies.  This is why the large speakers people will always be chasing dedicated single pieces....like Single piece Amp, pre amp, DaC, digital or analog source.  *The better the cross talk is the better the soundstage and imaging*

2/ *shielding matter*:  by using separated chassis, the shielding is improved, and that keeps the floor noise so much more cleaned, given that everything is engineered and implemented correctly

3/ *Boost and conversions matters*: having DAC/Amp together, you need to boost up the voltage from 3.7V packs to at least 6V or 8V for the amplifier.  The C9 is directly 8V from the batteries without boost and conversions.  _So, the less boost and conversions is the better_
Those are technical reasons for why being single piece and dedicated is much better than integrated

Now, also another reason....I freaking dislike USB digital audio as an interfaces (the real word is HATE).  My desktop is using I2S as an interfaces, and I would use Coax or Optical as much as possible, definitely never Digital USB audio.  It took me a lot of time and money to realize it, but this is why I am here and jumping in for a dedicated C9 amplifier

some people asked “why not including a DAC” on the C9, and I will say this “I would not buy the C9 , if it did have a DAC”. Why ? Because I would never use it, unless it can take in I2S or Optical but then, I rather use analog interconnect and we are again back at “dedicated amp only” for all the reasons I have been stating out


----------



## KickAssChewGum

I have to say that I am constantly amazed by the N6ii/A02 + C9 combo. It sounds absolutely incredible with my ‘go to’ Odins and LegendXs but has also seemingly ‘unlocked’ the potential of some of the older IEMs I have that I haven’t listened to in a while, like the Noble Audio Katanas, Kaiser Encores and Campfire Audio Andromedas (OG).

One thing I’m curious about, and haven’t read anything about, is how the Hugo 2 paired with the C9 sounds (obviously the transport source would be somewhat irrelevant here). As I don’t own a Hugo 2, I can’t test it myself so I’d love to hear from any C9 owners who’ve tried that pairing. Does the Hugo 2 offer anything that the N6ii/A02 can’t?


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Feb 20, 2021)

xand said:


> I think most would agree that DMP-Z1 +C9 is the limit of portable..
> 
> Hmm but DAP + Hugo 2 then is also portable.
> 
> ...


I think there is portable and there is transportable.

Portable to me is what you take outside to walk around with.   Since I take a 2 hour walk every day, I don't want a lot of weight.   I don't even bring my DAP because carrying an iPhone and a DAP is too heavy.    So, I carry my iphone and either Lotoo Paw S1 + UM Mest or iphone with Fiio UTWS3 + Blessing 2 Dusk.    Those options are truly portable and you can take them anywhere you go and it will work.

If I am in a really good cell coverage area (I mostly stream with Tidal and it really needs great LTE or the music buffers), I can carry my DAP and use my Apple watch/Airpods Pro for phone calls.   But, around Diamond Head where I live, the cell coverage is bad, so that option doesn't work well for me.

Transportable means a desktop that you can travel with.    And, it must be able to drive full sized headphones and the whole set up must fit into a backpack including the headphones.   The Hugo 2 + R6 2020 serves that purpose for me.    I am interested in picking up the C9 potentially to add tube sound to my transportable set up.   The C9 is an advancement beyond the Hugo 2 for me.   It has the sound quality (I believe) plus the option of other sound signatures like tube amp and more power.  Plus it enables all of the great DAP features.    So, it is a leapfrog and Chord must respond or become irrelevant.

My comment about catching up just means the reaction many on this thread experienced with the C9 and the sound quality improvement it provided over their current DAPs.    I already had that aha moment when I first got my Hugo 2.    I am sure the C9 will sound great based on the reviews of trustworthy reviewers.  But, I don't expect to get that same OMG moment I had when I first heard the Hugo 2 because sound quality wise they are in the same league.


----------



## xand

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Portable to me is what you take outside to walk around with.   Since I take a 2 hour walk every day, I don't want a lot of weight.   I don't even bring my DAP because carrying an iPhone and a DAP is too heavy.    So, I carry my iphone and either Lotoo Paw S1 + UM Mest or iphone with Fiio UTWS3 + Blessing 2 Dusk.    Those options are truly portable and you can take them anywhere you go and it will work.



Good stuff. Maybe think about it as exercising more if you carry the DAP 

Doesn't the R6 2020 sound much better than the Paw S1? 

By the way, for many many years I used the DF Red -> Zeus, so I know exactly what you mean by "portable" in this sense. 



HiFiHawaii808 said:


> If I am in a really good cell coverage area (I mostly stream with Tidal and it really needs great LTE or the music buffers), I can carry my DAP and use my Apple watch/Airpods Pro for phone calls.   But, around Diamond Head where I live, the cell coverage is bad, so that option doesn't work well for me.



Question: Why don't you just use the offline feature of Tidal? Does that not work with the R6 2020?

My DAP doesn't have data at least half the time.


----------



## wgkwgk

OK kiddies, play nicely.

My comment re: lowly R6 2020 + C9 was just a wink to those loving the N6ii+C9.  Truth be told, I had an N6ii on order then cancelled once I fell in love with R6 2020+C9.

I'll start using jk, lol, etc.  Sarcasm and text don't go well together. 

Just to reiterate, the guy with the stupid spyglass character has dry, sometimes in-perceptible, humor.


----------



## xand (Feb 20, 2021)

woodcans said:


> I spent several hours today with the iFi iDSD Signature via RCA out to the C9, driving UM MEST. What has been said about this amp is also true for me - the single biggest improvement in sound in my transportable setup so far. The difference in sound quality, in every respect, is just on another level. I am quite stunned at the experience. For those interested, the RCA outs on the iFi seem to be a true line out, bypassing volume control and 3d/xbass.





bluestorm1992 said:


> In my own experience, C9 is the single biggest improvement I have brought to my system.



OMG. Okay I did think that both of the comments above were a little bit hyperbolic, but I've (finally) gotten around to listening to my Zeus XR from the DX300 -> C9 - and it's absolutely true that the improvement is phenomenal.

Maybe one way to put it is: I bought the Utopia because I thought it was a 30% (ish) improvement over the Zeus. However, with the DX300 -> C9, the gap has SERIOUSLY narrowed - the Utopia is still perceptibly superior, but maybe 10% or so. I might even have skipped buying the Utopias if this was the difference.

Another way to put it is: I'm probably going to be buying a Dignis Hako so I can use the C9 with the Zeus. (For a truly portable setup, I still have noble lightning cable into JH16 CIEMS - which I still use sometimes while in a gym).

Okay, to be fair, Utopia being 30% better was before I re-terminated the Zeus cables into balanced, and previously the Zeus was powered by a DF Red (and a whole bunch of different handphones) ... but that was mostly because my old desktop DAC/amps were not a good match for the Zeus (didn't prefer them), I really liked using it portably, and I hated the UI of basically all DAPs I tried (except old iPods - but the DF Red was better than any of the more recent iPods and before this I hadn't looked at DAPs for about three years).

I suppose when I say the improvement is phenomenal - well - it should be. I'm still really surprised though - and see below on a comparison with just the DX300.

Oh and it does hiss a (very) little, but I'm entirely fine with the level of hiss.

CONGRATULATIONS Cayin, the C9 is really an excellent product for its stated purpose.

*DX 300 into Zeus alone*

The DX300 alone - it's better than I recall the DF Red being, but I'd still say the Utopia is ~25% better, so it's very fair to attribute the main improvement to the C9.

I also had in the last year been finding the Zeus to be a little fatiguing, and I still find them slightly fatiguing out of the DX300 - so well done C9 (not fatiguing at all)!

Finally, note that I don't mean to say the Utopia isn't awesome when driven by the C9 - I specifically purchased it because the demo showed the combination to be close enough to the Focal Arche (+/- various things) that I would be happy enough, and comparing the Utopias from the DX300 with and without the C9, the C9 is a noticeable improvement, but the SCALE of the improvement of the Zeus is ridiculously (and unexpectedly) significant. 

I didn't even plan on using the Zeus out of the C9 at the point I bought the C9 - I re-terminated the cables because of the DX300.


----------



## bluestorm1992

wgkwgk said:


> With you guys praising the A02+C9, I  feel rather left out with my (lowly) R6 2020+C9!!!


Haha, well to be honest R6 is one generation ahead in its OS and other features. To me N6ii gains all my attention purely because of the A02. In every other aspect, R6 is just a better DAP.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 20, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> That's a great combination.    Why do you fell that way?    I'm thrilled with my R6 2020 + Hugo 2.





HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I feel the C9 is just catching up those in the DAP world to the portable DAC/Amp world.    Hopefully the competition will force Chord to come up with a Hugo 3 or transportable Chord TT2 and improve their software.


Hugo 2 would have been sufficient if the 2go were working as intended. Now, whenever I want to listen to my Hugo 2 while not being with my Mac, I have to take my DAP with me. Compared to this, DAP + C9 is a bit more convenient in this regard. It is not that DAP + Hugo 2 is not doable, just that I prefer DAP + C9 stack when I need to walk around. Plus, this stack can drive my Diana nicely while Hugo 2 is a bit lacking in the power.

Actually, everything seem to work out pretty nicely for me now. I have DAP for casual listening, DAP + C9 is I want good SQ and move around, and Hugo 2 is now my desktop DAC/Amp. I am very happy with such arrangements.


----------



## Frankie D

Whitigir said:


> Technically a dedicated Amp + a dedicated Source is better than DAC/Amp. As I mentioned a while ago


I would say not necessarily.  Considering a DAC is essentially a single chip today (I am sure it could be more, but my point is the DAC is tiny) it des not use much power.  So it is easy to put both together and receive an improvement in sound quality as a tethering cable is now removed from the equation.  

This debate even goes on in 2 channel audio in DAC only kit.  Berkeley believes in clock, DAC, etc in one chassis while DCS preaches a separate Clock, DAC etc for their TOTL  Vivaldi.  

Personally, I think it can be done I await the N8 successor which will hopefully improve on the N8 dac while incorporating all of the C9.  Hopefully not a dream.


----------



## bluestorm1992

KickAssChewGum said:


> I have to say that I am constantly amazed by the N6ii/A02 + C9 combo. It sounds absolutely incredible with my ‘go to’ Odins and LegendXs but has also seemingly ‘unlocked’ the potential of some of the older IEMs I have that I haven’t listened to in a while, like the Noble Audio Katanas, Kaiser Encores and Campfire Audio Andromedas (OG).
> 
> One thing I’m curious about, and haven’t read anything about, is how the Hugo 2 paired with the C9 sounds (obviously the transport source would be somewhat irrelevant here). As I don’t own a Hugo 2, I can’t test it myself so I’d love to hear from any C9 owners who’ve tried that pairing. Does the Hugo 2 offer anything that the N6ii/A02 can’t?


Review coming soon.  I am getting too many gears and want to release the review with everything all together.

The short answer to your question is, I find Hugo 2 and C9 stack to be good for different IEMs. Don’t get me wrong, both pair really nicely with all the IEMs I have tried. But because Hugo 2 and the stack has different sound signatures, it is perhaps not surprising that they have different advantages. For example, for MEST I will absolutely take the C9 stack over Hugo 2. For U18t both are really good. For Fir M5 I take Hugo 2 over C9 stack.

One thing to note is that this comparison result can potentially change when I change the DAP with C9. Perhaps other DAPs can bring in a different sound signature, making the C9 stack a better choice for M5 (I suspect P6 Pro can do the trick as its organic and sweet sound signature could really benefit M5).


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 20, 2021)

Frankie D said:


> I would say not necessarily.  Considering a DAC is essentially a single chip today (I am sure it could be more, but my point is the DAC is tiny) it des not use much power.  So it is easy to put both together and receive an improvement in sound quality as a tethering cable is now removed from the equation.
> 
> This debate even goes on in 2 channel audio in DAC only kit.  Berkeley believes in clock, DAC, etc in one chassis while DCS preaches a separate Clock, DAC etc for their TOTL  Vivaldi.
> 
> Personally, I think it can be done I await the N8 successor which will hopefully improve on the N8 dac while incorporating all of the C9.  Hopefully not a dream.


You forgot that for portable devices, there are batteries.  The Voltage required for DAC is lower than Amplifier, and so they all use one single pack of 3.7 volt and then boost up.  The C9 as I mentioned is running directly from the batteries without boost.  Technically it is better than any integrated amp/DaC with batteries unless the Amp/DaC also have 2 batteries and solve this issues

You can not technically squeeze C9 into a DAP, unless you make it so big as a C9 stacking with a DAP.

Discrete components take up spaces.  Dual Korg tubes will take up spaces, and so will removable batteries

You want something like that, look into Shanling M30, though I don’t know how it will sound, but you can not possibly remain small while having all the C9 features with a DAP

The Dx300 is already trying to haul away with 2 batteries packs to try and have both units in one: Amp and DAC....and it is one huge phablet already....the same as Max.  Dreaming is ok though

Technically, there are many limitations for “integrated vs dedicated”, but to debate against technical reasons for the sake of subjective sound performances isn’t what I would like to engage.  Because my friend already do it to me in real life with ear pod pro to be better than whatever I have.  I agree every time when he comes up with such comparison


----------



## xand

Frankie D said:


> I await the N8 successor which will hopefully improve on the N8 dac while incorporating all of the C9.  Hopefully not a dream.



I think it can be done, but only using Class D. I'm actually not sure why anyone has not released a DAP like this - I suspect it doesn't sound good (yet - hopefully).

While you're waiting, if you're using C/IEMS, do demo the C9.

I actually tried my CIEMS (switched from full size headphones) out of my C9 because of all the posts above about how the C9 was SO AMAZING. I like my C9, but I really wasn't seeing the reason for the absolute love from @Whitigir et al...

2-3 hours on, I'm STILL listening through my CIEMS. As I've been listening to them for 4 years I obviously like the signature, and they have never sounded so good!


----------



## Frankie D

Whitigir said:


> You forgot that for portable devices, there are batteries.  The Voltage required for DAC is lower than Amplifier, and so they all use one single pack of 3.7 volt and then boost up.  The C9 as I mentioned is running directly from the batteries without boost.  Technically it is better than any integrated amp/DaC
> 
> You can not technically squeeze C9 into a DAP, unless you make it so big as a C9 stacking with a DAP.
> 
> ...


My point was the dac section is so tiny today, it can be added to the C9 and use the same power source if desired. Maybe even make it a bit larger and provide a separate battery for the dac only.  There are many ways to do it.


----------



## DaYooper

Frankie D said:


> There are many ways to do it.


Like interconnect cables and stuff.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 20, 2021)

Class D involves an additional stages that converts Analog waves into PWM , and once again, additional conversions is not good, the less is the better.

However, there are newer design with Class D and Gan FET.  The Gan FET is so amazing that it could convert without too much deformations and or being noisy, and also being very effective vs Sic Fet.  You can look up Sony SA-Z1 system.  It is using the digital processor from S-Master and Gan FET for class D amplifications....ain’t cheap though

The wonderful thing is that we have Modular players now, such as Dx300 and N6ii, just so long as they are given the green light to production, then we may see it.  These Gan Fet are already everywhere in Chargers
*ugh love what?*



xand said:


> I think it can be done, but only using Class D. I'm actually not sure why anyone has not released a DAP like this - I suspect it doesn't sound good (yet - hopefully).
> 
> While you're waiting, if you're using C/IEMS, do demo the C9.
> 
> ...


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 20, 2021)

Frankie D said:


> There are many ways to do it.


It is always easier said than Done.

Allow me to agree to disagree here


----------



## Frankie D

Whitigir said:


> It is always easier said than Done.
> 
> Allow me to agree to disagree here


If it was easy everyone would do it, the “hard” is what makes it special.   Sorry, just had to throw that in!  I do realize there will certainly be a high degree of difficulty.  I just hope it is possible as I would rather not have multiple C9 sized units.  It will be interesting to see what Cayin does this year.  Tks.


----------



## Whitigir

I see no one have made anything like the C9, and that is to me, the C9 is special enough.  I show my support by buying it.  You should show some support as well, so that way they have the motivations to keep doing the “harder” stuff


----------



## DaYooper

But what you seem to be missing, frankie d,  is the design idea of being able to "roll" all the daps you have with the C-9 so you can experience the different flavors of sound made possible. Start including an on board dac in the c-9 then there is nothing special from any other TOTL dap.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 20, 2021)

DaYooper said:


> But what you seem to be missing, frankie d,  is the design idea of being able to "roll" all the daps you have with the C-9 so you can experience the different flavors of sound made possible. Start including an on board dac in the c-9 then there is nothing special from any other TOTL dap.


While we are at it, why don’t we ask Cayin to allow DAC to be modular and so we can roll DAC , and even the SOC interfaces as well ?

Oh..I think that is N6ii and A02 or T01 or E02....it is already available.  Don’t know when N6 Mark III will come out though lol

Just interconnect and cables and stuff.  Then any other DAP with proper line out can stack up too!


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 20, 2021)

xand said:


> I think it can be done, but only using Class D. I'm actually not sure why anyone has not released a DAP like this - I suspect it doesn't sound good (yet - hopefully).
> 
> While you're waiting, if you're using C/IEMS, do demo the C9.
> 
> ...


The improvement with certain IEMs I have tried is really, well, at a ridiculous level. I have the hypothesis that C9 is going to benefit mid-tier IEMs more so than with TOTL IEMs, and perhaps this is the case for headphones as well.

I think C9 opens up my interest to explore a lot more mid-tier IEMs in the future, just to see how much they can approach TOTL ones when driven to their full potentials.


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> The improvement with certain IEMs I have tried is really, well, at a ridiculous level. I have the hypothesis that C9 is going to benefit mid-tier IEMs more so than with TOTL IEMs; seems like this is the case for headphones as well.
> 
> I think C9 opens up my interest to explore a lot more mid-tier IEMs in the future, just to see how much they can approach TOTL ones when driven to their full potentials.


Is HD800S considered TOTL ?  or is it mid-tier ?


----------



## bluestorm1992

Is HD800S considered TOTL ?  or is it mid-tier ?
Definitely TOTL in soundstage based on all the feedback.   Need to try it out to see other aspects.


----------



## Frankie D

DaYooper said:


> But what you seem to be missing, frankie d,  is the design idea of being able to "roll" all the daps you have with the C-9 so you can experience the different flavors of sound made possible. Start including an on board dac in the c-9 then there is nothing special from any other TOTL dap.


Ha!  Yes, but you already have your C9.  I would also like an all-in-one.


----------



## DaYooper

Frankie D said:


> Ha!  Yes, but you already have your C9.  I would also like an all-in-one.


I almost had one but I went for the bigger real tubes Cayin HA-6A. I don't need to go portable. But reading what has been said about the C-9 I might just have to have one sooner than later.


----------



## mungster (Feb 20, 2021)

👍


----------



## justsomesonyfan

starting to wonder how the c9 will pair with the r2r2000, anyone has any experience with that combo?


----------



## bluestorm1992

justsomesonyfan said:


> starting to wonder how the c9 will pair with the r2r2000, anyone has any experience with that combo?


I have seen people done that and reported quite favorable results. No detailed review though.


----------



## justsomesonyfan

bluestorm1992 said:


> I have seen people done that and reported quite favorable results. No detailed review though.


that's the 5k hm1000 isn't it? christ i was thinking on something .ore budget friendly like my r2r2000 red or even the budget hm1000 models


----------



## bluestorm1992

justsomesonyfan said:


> that's the 5k hm1000 isn't it? christ i was thinking on something .ore budget friendly like my r2r2000 red or even the budget hm1000 models


Ah OK. I did not own any Hifiman players so cannot tell apart different players.   Will let you know if I can spot one in the future.


----------



## justsomesonyfan

bluestorm1992 said:


> Ah OK. I did not own any Hifiman players so cannot tell apart different players.   Will let you know if I can spot one in the future.


thanks mate!


----------



## TheNameIsGerald

Whitigir said:


> I see no one have made anything like the C9, and that is to me, the C9 is special enough.  I show my support by buying it.  You should show some support as well, so that way they have the motivations to keep doing the “harder” stuff


I think Cayin could make buying the C9 much easier by either selling it themselves or by linking to the web stores of all their authorised dealers (instead of listing their phone numbers!, with every dealer hidden away on their own web page  )


----------



## Whitigir

TheNameIsGerald said:


> I think Cayin could make buying the C9 much easier by either selling it themselves or by linking to the web stores of all their authorised dealers (instead of listing their phone numbers!, with every dealer hidden away on their own web page  )


Ouch! I understand the frustration.  I got lucky when I saw Musicteck link up, and grabbed it ASAP lol


----------



## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> Ouch! I understand the frustration.  I got lucky when I saw Musicteck link up, and grabbed it ASAP lol


First post in page #100!


----------



## Luhar

Any pairing impressions with SP1K?


----------



## decur

masahito24@chart said:


> LOL, I actually haven't spent much time with the C9/DMP, its mostly been tied to the P6 Pro and my Diana Phi. I accidently got in the P6 Pro, C9, N6ii, MDR-Z1R all this past week. I think I made a huge mistake since it's been a week of mixing and matching. I need to break them in before I really sit down and take a listen.


I have been using my p6pro with c9 + Diana v2
with incredible results(tube mode)
just keep on burning it in


----------



## masahito24@chart

decur said:


> I have been using my p6pro with c9 + Diana v2
> with incredible results(tube mode)
> just keep on burning it in


I've been listening to the C9+P6 Pro so much I'll be needing to get 2 more sets of batteries.


----------



## lumdicks

decur said:


> I have been using my p6pro with c9 + Diana v2
> with incredible results(tube mode)
> just keep on burning it in


Are you using Line in or Pre-amp in of C9 with P6-Pro?


----------



## nelava17

This is my first post, and I am not exactly sure how the site works yet.  However, I received my Cayin C9 Amp about 10 days ago, and wanted to share some thoughts.
I took several pictures to illustrate my various set-ups...but don't yet know how to post pictures to the site, and I also read that there is some rule that new members aren't allowed to post pictures anyway.  So I will have to make do with text only, until I can figure out how to upload images.

I also want to say sincere thanks to everyone who has posted thoughts and ideas related to the C9 Amp in this thread, as I have read the entire thread and tried out many of your suggestions or recommendations.  These really helped me in trying to obtain the best sound from the gear that I have!  

I have been using the Cayin C9 Amp with 2 of my DAPS (Cayin N6ii with A01 & A02 boards;  and iBasso DX220 Max).  Haven't tried the C9 Amp yet with my Sony WM1A or my iBasso DX220.  The Cayin N6ii is a really versatile DAP to have in your collection...I can use it as a stand-alone DAP (with A01), or a high-quality analog source (with A02), or a digital source for my desktop DAC and Amp.  I also think the iBasso DX220 Max is just outstanding, either stand-alone or using the 4.4mm analog-out going to the Cayin C9 Amp.  I preferred the overall sound when using the C9 as the amp, and the DX220 as the source (rather than the DX220 stand-alone)...at least with the headphones I have tried so far.

I don't own any IEMs, just full-size headphones.  So far I have tried 5 of my headphones with the Cayin C9 Amp:  Meze Empyrean;  DCA Ether 2;  ZMF Verite-Closed;  Audeze LCD3; and Focal Clear.  I thought the C9 Amp performed very well with all 5 of them.  I was somewhat surprised with ZMF VC, as I didn't expect the C9 Amp to drive it very well (since it is a 300 ohm headphone), but it sounded really nice to me.  Note - I am using the Auteur solid suede pads on the ZMF VC.  At this point in my testing, the DCA Ether 2 (with suede pads) is my favorite headphone when using the C9 Amp.  However, I want to do more comparisons, and also compare the C9 Amp with my Woo Audio WA11 Amp (also an excellent transportable Tube Amp).

That's all I have for now...thanks for your time!


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 22, 2021)

nelava17 said:


> This is my first post, and I am not exactly sure how the site works yet.  However, I received my Cayin C9 Amp about 10 days ago, and wanted to share some thoughts.
> I took several pictures to illustrate my various set-ups...but don't yet know how to post pictures to the site, and I also read that there is some rule that new members aren't allowed to post pictures anyway.  So I will have to make do with text only, until I can figure out how to upload images.
> 
> I also want to say sincere thanks to everyone who has posted thoughts and ideas related to the C9 Amp in this thread, as I have read the entire thread and tried out many of your suggestions or recommendations.  These really helped me in trying to obtain the best sound from the gear that I have!
> ...


Congrats and welcome to the club! 

Eagerly waiting for my Verite Closed ATM. With your input, now I am confident that C9 and VC will sound excellent together!

As for uploading pics, can you try just drag the pic to the text input box? Alternatively, you can try use the “attached file” function right below the text input box.


----------



## bye2

Luhar said:


> Any pairing impressions with SP1K?



Just a short comment.  It's quite interesting.

It adds the warmth and organic to SP1k, and it adds the clear and precise resolution to C9.  If you use preamp mode, it will be more on the clear side, while using normal line in with SP1k's 4V lineout, it's on the warmth.

It's not sure if SP1k is already too warm for you, but it's nice to me to add the interesting colors.

For your reference, I'm using copper version of SP1k and only use Tube A mode of SP1k, with Odin or IEM-z1r.  Ether 2 is too good to the sound having power on, not to mentioned, especially on the high gain with lineout mode.


----------



## Whitigir

nelava17 said:


> This is my first post, and I am not exactly sure how the site works yet.  However, I received my Cayin C9 Amp about 10 days ago, and wanted to share some thoughts.
> I took several pictures to illustrate my various set-ups...but don't yet know how to post pictures to the site, and I also read that there is some rule that new members aren't allowed to post pictures anyway.  So I will have to make do with text only, until I can figure out how to upload images.
> 
> I also want to say sincere thanks to everyone who has posted thoughts and ideas related to the C9 Amp in this thread, as I have read the entire thread and tried out many of your suggestions or recommendations.  These really helped me in trying to obtain the best sound from the gear that I have!
> ...


Congratulation and welcome to the club !


----------



## KickAssChewGum

nelava17 said:


> This is my first post, and I am not exactly sure how the site works yet.  However, I received my Cayin C9 Amp about 10 days ago, and wanted to share some thoughts.
> I took several pictures to illustrate my various set-ups...but don't yet know how to post pictures to the site, and I also read that there is some rule that new members aren't allowed to post pictures anyway.  So I will have to make do with text only, until I can figure out how to upload images.
> 
> I also want to say sincere thanks to everyone who has posted thoughts and ideas related to the C9 Amp in this thread, as I have read the entire thread and tried out many of your suggestions or recommendations.  These really helped me in trying to obtain the best sound from the gear that I have!
> ...


Welcome to Head-Fi and thanks for all your thoughts! And welcome to the C9 club too!


----------



## zen87192

May I ask if someone can give me a very short review or recommendation notes on the combo of Hiby R6 2020 and the Cayin C9 please?
Thanking you in advance.


----------



## DarginMahkum

justsomesonyfan said:


> that's the 5k hm1000 isn't it? christ i was thinking on something .ore budget friendly like my r2r2000 red or even the budget hm1000 models


Or is it the 5k HM1000 that was called back with supply problems?


----------



## decur (Feb 22, 2021)

lumdicks said:


> Are you using Line in or Pre-amp in of C9 with P6-Pro?


I’m using line in,I have not tried the preamp feature yet...


----------



## KickAssChewGum

masahito24@chart said:


> I've been listening to the C9+P6 Pro so much I'll be needing to get 2 more sets of batteries.


I’m the same! @Andykong where can we get extra battery packs (ie charging tray and batteries)? Also I heard they may be a case coming. Is this true and, if so, where will we be able to buy it from. Thanks! (Typed whilst listening to my C9. I love this amp SO much!)


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 22, 2021)

Someone mentioned earlier that whether the pairing of Lotoo S1 and C9 can deliver good results. I briefly tried this myself and the result was no good. The S1 does not have line-out. Its PO is great, but still not enough to be a good source for C9’s pre-mode.

Well, L&P’s new small dongle W2 might do the trick. It is way more powerful than S1, has a much lower distortion, and delivers L&P’s house sound of excellent clarity with a touch of sweet. Some early report suggests that it pairs very well with C9 in driving the MEST. I have my eyes on it for a long time, and will surely get one from Musicteck when it launches to try out its pairing with C9.


----------



## brannigan

Seeking some advice from experienced members here. I have been using the C9 in a particularly warm environment (30-35C) and it gets way too hot. Any recommendations for a good soft thermal conductor mat to place the C9 on ?


----------



## bye2

brannigan said:


> Seeking some advice from experienced members here. I have been using the C9 in a particularly warm environment (30-35C) and it gets way too hot. Any recommendations for a good soft thermal conductor mat to place the C9 on ?



I always think the heat is the part of the sound - if your device is not on that temperature, the signature is different.

May we can go for some water cooling system like this?    
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000453636461.html


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## Whitigir (Feb 23, 2021)

brannigan said:


> Seeking some advice from experienced members here. I have been using the C9 in a particularly warm environment (30-35C) and it gets way too hot. Any recommendations for a good soft thermal conductor mat to place the C9 on ?


Get Thermal glued like this.  If you want it to stay on permanently.
https://www.amazon.com/Easycargo-Th...=nvme+cooling+with+glue&qid=1614084340&sr=8-9
Then get some NVME cooling fins like this. You may need to Dremel trim some what for better look, or leave it as is for more cooling
Coolant and double side tape

Or get something like this and rubber strap it on.  If you don’t like something that stay on almost permanently ?
https://www.amazon.com/Aluminum-Hea...nvme+cooling+with+glue&qid=1614084340&sr=8-10

Alternatively, you can use this dual side tape for sticking the coolant on as well


This one on the second links already has dual side sticker, no need for permanent glues.
This one needs 2X and would fit best on the 2 sides.  It is short, though if you use more than 2X _*May need to modify some to allow the Battery screw holes and battery compartment sliding in/out, also the Pre button holes.*_


----------



## DaYooper

Didn't Cayin test this machine for thermal performance and suitability for it's use scenario?


----------



## Whitigir

DaYooper said:


> Didn't Cayin test this machine for thermal performance and suitability for it's use scenario?


They did, and due to the choices of different options.  The best use case for Portability and staying in a backpack or pocket , or case would be Class AB and Solid State.  Definitely can not use Class A and Tube as this heats up the most , even in open air.


----------



## Whitigir

*More Detailed review in IER-Z1R and C9*
Excellent with Z1R! The powerful authorities of C9 is so well balanced and fine that it drives Z1R like nothing out there I have came through, except the DMP Z1. 
Dare I say that it actually is on par with DMP Z1 when driving Z1R IER, but with the options to switch timbres

What is so good about it ?
Most of the time Z1R is V shaped and having some what muffled or veiled upper mid and lower high, together with a lot of lower bass and sub bass, soundstage is open but....

By using C9 or DMP Z1, the soundstage is vastly expanded in all axis.

The important facts is that the bass dynamic, punches, slams, are crazily energetic....it vibrates in my canals and it is so well controlled that my brains cries in happiness....I am not a bass head, but this level of bass beats my brain into submission!!!! Good bass is always desirable !!!!

Now, the vocal is still some what recessed but ohh so detailed, fine, textures, well defined, a little more forward than if you were to use it from DAP alone, the high frequencies and especially upper mid, lower high definitions and textures are so well controlled, portrayed, and the upper high extensions is great!!! Like a veil has been lifted off

If you are a fan of Z1R IEM, you have to have C9, and better yet A02! 
I am using FiiO LC-RE cables, which is cheap, affordable, at real quality.  Excellent for even larger staging and Bass quality.  There is also cheaper cables that has Litz Silver from FiiO and this one have further definitions and resolutions at some compromises of stages Vs the LC-RC

You will not regret investing into C9.


----------



## Shecky504

Is it possible my C9 blew the amp on my DX300? All of the sudden everything sounded distorted through the C9 through line out and Pre mode and then I  went and plugged directly into my DX300 to check it and I could barely hear anything on phone output and high gain. After cranking the volume it just sounds garbled and I tried restarting to both Mango and Android modes. Not happy this happened as both units are new.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Shecky504 said:


> Is it possible my C9 blew the amp on my DX300? All of the sudden everything sounded distorted through the C9 through line out and Pre mode and then I  went and plugged directly into my DX300 to check it and I could barely hear anything on phone output and high gain. After cranking the volume it just sounds garbled and I tried restarting to both Mango and Android modes. Not happy this happened as both units are new.


This is strange because C9 should bypass the Amp portion of DX300 completely. Is C9 itself working properly when paired with other sources?


----------



## xand

Shecky504 said:


> Is it possible my C9 blew the amp on my DX300? All of the sudden everything sounded distorted through the C9 through line out and Pre mode and then I  went and plugged directly into my DX300 to check it and I could barely hear anything on phone output and high gain. After cranking the volume it just sounds garbled and I tried restarting to both Mango and Android modes. Not happy this happened as both units are new.


Eek. Tell us what happened!


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 23, 2021)

Shecky504 said:


> Is it possible my C9 blew the amp on my DX300? All of the sudden everything sounded distorted through the C9 through line out and Pre mode and then I  went and plugged directly into my DX300 to check it and I could barely hear anything on phone output and high gain. After cranking the volume it just sounds garbled and I tried restarting to both Mango and Android modes. Not happy this happened as both units are new.


I doubt the C9 is at faults.  More like DX300 is defect.  If anything, the C9 is an amp that is amplifying the input signals.  If the input signals is too powerful, the C9 will start clipping and distorts and then damaged.

What I am saying is that in most of the cases, the one that do damages would be the upper chain devices ...aka , sources, DAP!

There is almost no possible way for any amplifier to damage the guy upper chain, unless the Interconnect were wired incorrectly, but even so...it is rare but possible


----------



## twister6

Shecky504 said:


> Is it possible my C9 blew the amp on my DX300? All of the sudden everything sounded distorted through the C9 through line out and Pre mode and then I  went and plugged directly into my DX300 to check it and I could barely hear anything on phone output and high gain. After cranking the volume it just sounds garbled and I tried restarting to both Mango and Android modes. Not happy this happened as both units are new.



Do the factory reset of DX300, see if it comes back to life.  Also, make sure you are running the latest DX300 fw.  And I do agree with others, C9 shouldn't be a culprit of this failure.  Plus, I assume you switched to Line Out on your DX300 when testing with C9?


----------



## michaelc

Whitigir said:


> *More Detailed review in IER-Z1R and C9*
> Excellent with Z1R! The powerful authorities of C9 is so well balanced and fine that it drives Z1R like nothing out there I have came through, except the DMP Z1.
> Dare I say that it actually is on par with DMP Z1 when driving Z1R IER, but with the options to switch timbres
> 
> ...



Z1r fan here...time to sell my H2 for Z1 territory!!


----------



## Shecky504

twister6 said:


> Do the factory reset of DX300, see if it comes back to life.  Also, make sure you are running the latest DX300 fw.  And I do agree with others, C9 shouldn't be a culprit of this failure.  Plus, I assume you switched to Line Out on your DX300 when testing with C9?


Thanks everyone, I mainly use Line Out with DX300 but I also tested using Preamp mode with Phone out on the DX300. 20 minutes after I first got the C9 on Saturday I noticed a similar distortion and thought I had a faulty C9. The next day it was back to normal. Then yesterday it happened again and when I plugged back into the DX300 to check it, the issue was clearly with the DX300. Currently when using Line Out mode with the C9 I can hear the music fine but it sounds like a speaker is blown (with different IEMs, same issue so it's not the IEM). I reached out to Paul at iBasso and I will try a factory reset in the meantime. At least the amp is interchangeable on the DX300 so perhaps they could send a replacement and I could try that if all else fails.


----------



## Whitigir

Shecky504 said:


> Thanks everyone, I mainly use Line Out with DX300 but I also tested using Preamp mode with Phone out on the DX300. 20 minutes after I first got the C9 on Saturday I noticed a similar distortion and thought I had a faulty C9. The next day it was back to normal. Then yesterday it happened again and when I plugged back into the DX300 to check it, the issue was clearly with the DX300. Currently when using Line Out mode with the C9 I can hear the music fine but it sounds like a speaker is blown (with different IEMs, same issue so it's not the IEM). I reached out to Paul at iBasso and I will try a factory reset in the meantime. At least the amp is interchangeable on the DX300 so perhaps they could send a replacement and I could try that if all else fails.


Pre In mode with Phone Out on the Dx300, the Dx300 has a very powerful output, and as you mentioned, it clips and distorted.  You need to tone down the gain on 300 to low gain and even get away from the Pre mode altogether.

Even as Line Out source, the Dx300 should be used as Low gain and also Low gain on C9 as well

How is the C9 now ? Is it ok with other sources ?


----------



## xand

Eh I prefer mid gain line out to my c9 from the dx300. Balanced. High gain on the c9. 

Haven't had an issue...

I would guess it's just something wonky with the dx300. Try the c9 out of something else...


----------



## Shecky504

I will be able to try the C9 with another source later tonight. I prefer the dynamics of high gain on the DX300 but will try low gain on the DX300 with high gain on the C9 if I can recover after a factory reset.


----------



## Shecky504

Unfortunately, a factory reset did not help. I am in touch with iBasso about it. I will try the single ended output on the DX300 later tonight when I return home.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Shecky504 said:


> Unfortunately, a factory reset did not help. I am in touch with iBasso about it. I will try the single ended output on the DX300 later tonight when I return home.


Hopefully C9 works fine with your other DAPs, so you can still have something to use while the DX300 is under repair.


----------



## Shecky504

bluestorm1992 said:


> Hopefully C9 works fine with your other DAPs, so you can still have something to use while the DX300 is under repair.


Thanks, I'm waiting on a battery for the DX160 so all I have left is the ZX300 with no line out. I will try that when I return home though.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Shecky504 said:


> Thanks, I'm waiting on a battery for the DX160 so all I have left is the ZX300 with no line out. I will try that when I return home though.


You may try the Pre-mode of C9, but just be really careful of not putting the IEMs on your ear when testing that mode. Also, as you have mentioned, trying the SE line-out mode of the DX300 could be a good idea.


----------



## eskamobob1

decur said:


> I have been using my p6pro with c9 + Diana v2
> with incredible results(tube mode)
> just keep on burning it in



I would love to hear further impressions on how well the C9 handles diana. I already have a P6P an diana and C9 are on my short list for sure, but I was worried about powering them propperly with teh C9 (and even with the BX2+ for that matter)


----------



## eskamobob1

masahito24@chart said:


> I've been listening to the C9+P6 Pro so much I'll be needing to get 2 more sets of batteries.



Lol. Didnt realize we had so many P6P users here. 



lumdicks said:


> Are you using Line in or Pre-amp in of C9 with P6-Pro?





decur said:


> I’m using line in,I have not tried the preamp feature yet...



You should use the Pre-amp mode at least for a try. The P6P has the volume attenuation between the dac and the amp (the internal amp is a pure power amp) giving it a true passive pre-out



nelava17 said:


> This is my first post, and I am not exactly sure how the site works yet.  However, I received my Cayin C9 Amp about 10 days ago, and wanted to share some thoughts.
> I took several pictures to illustrate my various set-ups...but don't yet know how to post pictures to the site, and I also read that there is some rule that new members aren't allowed to post pictures anyway.  So I will have to make do with text only, until I can figure out how to upload images.
> 
> I also want to say sincere thanks to everyone who has posted thoughts and ideas related to the C9 Amp in this thread, as I have read the entire thread and tried out many of your suggestions or recommendations.  These really helped me in trying to obtain the best sound from the gear that I have!
> ...



Awesome writeup! TYV for the info



Shecky504 said:


> Is it possible my C9 blew the amp on my DX300? All of the sudden everything sounded distorted through the C9 through line out and Pre mode and then I  went and plugged directly into my DX300 to check it and I could barely hear anything on phone output and high gain. After cranking the volume it just sounds garbled and I tried restarting to both Mango and Android modes. Not happy this happened as both units are new.



Were you charging both the DX300 and the C9 when it happened? Cayin put out a statement that this can cause a short bewteen the player and the amp


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## Whitigir (Feb 23, 2021)

eskamobob1 said:


> Were you charging both the DX300 and the C9 when it happened? Cayin put out a statement that this can cause a short bewteen the player and the amp


The short between the player and the amp is only going to *trigger the C9 to be into protection mode*.  It will *just stop charging*, until the battery tray is removed and charged alone for at least 10 seconds

*This is actually not a “short”*, it is more like a references for “protection mechanism” that was placed in due to the battery of 18650 being unprotected and Ofcourse for user replacement

It only happened when both is on and operating.  I have been charging both C9 and A02 together from one wall charger while both is off, no problem at all


----------



## Shecky504

eskamobob1 said:


> Were you charging both the DX300 and the C9 when it happened? Cayin put out a statement that this can cause a short bewteen the player and the amp


Oh I was only charging the DX300 when the issue started. The C9 seems fine, the DX300 is what has been affected.


----------



## Whitigir

Shecky504 said:


> Oh I was only charging the DX300 when the issue started. The C9 seems fine, the DX300 is what has been affected.


Just as I though. Where did you buy 300 from ? May ask them for warranty on the whole player or the amp Module ?


----------



## decur

eskamobob1 said:


> I would love to hear further impressions on how well the C9 handles diana. I already have a P6P an diana and C9 are on my short list for sure, but I was worried about powering them propperly with teh C9 (and even with the BX2+ for that matter)


I really enjoy Diana with c9 in tube(timber) mode. the Diana’s and all the abyss’s in general are on the slightly bright side of the spectrum.
in timber mode,I find it takes the edge off,and is more musical. The c9 has more than eneough  power for Diana V2’s tho not as much as 
my romi bx2+,ifi Idsd sig... the xi audio broadway about the same power,but the Broadway has a wider soundstage(by a little)
while the romi bx2+ is an excellent value for the money,it is not in the same league as xi Broadway and cabin c9


----------



## Whitigir

Would you pick BX2 over C9 ? If given 2 instances, cost-performances is a factor, or Cost is no objection ? Why ?


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 23, 2021)

decur said:


> I really enjoy Diana with c9 in tube(timber) mode. the Diana’s and all the abyss’s in general are on the slightly bright side of the spectrum.
> in timber mode,I find it takes the edge off,and is more musical. The c9 has more than eneough  power for Diana V2’s tho not as much as
> my romi bx2+,ifi Idsd sig... the xi audio broadway about the same power,but the Broadway has a wider soundstage(by a little)
> while the romi bx2+ is an excellent value for the money,it is not in the same league as xi Broadway and cabin c9


I also find the Broadway and C9 to be in the same league for driving the Diana V2. Broadway may edge C9 a slight bit in its tuning and soundstage that is done specifically with the Diana, but they are really close.


----------



## decur

Whitigir said:


> Would you pick BX2 over C9 ? If given 2 instances, cost-performances is a factor, or Cost is no objection ? Why ?


So,as far as cost performance,you can pick up romi bx2+ for $745.00 on Ali express. For a class A,great sounding high powered portable that does not get real hot,light as a feather,not bad battery life. Not sure any thing can touch it at this price.with my my Diana V2’s I cannot get past 1pm. past 1pm and my head will explode. The c9 to me is absolutely worth 2k. Discrete,class a,tubes,long battery life,(a lot more transportable than my xi Broadway).
when comparing bx2+ to c9 the 1st thing that sticks out to me is,bx2+ has that opamp sound vs that clean smooth discrete sound of c9.
c9 is  more detailed than the romi,and the tube/timbre of c9 is the icing on the cake.
I think c9 is not over priced,nor is it under priced.just my opinion.
both are great amps


----------



## Shecky504

Whitigir said:


> Just as I though. Where did you buy 300 from ? May ask them for warranty on the whole player or the amp Module ?


From Hifi Go, I am in touch with Paul for now so hopefully he can send a replacement amp module if need be.


----------



## decur

bluestorm1992 said:


> I also find the Broadway and C9 to be in the same league for driving the Diana V2. Broadway may edge C9 a slight bit in its tuning and soundstage that is done specifically with the Diana, but they are really close.


I find the Broadway sounds better than the c9 in class a non timbre mode.
the c9in class a timber/tube mode is where it is at for me! It makes my Diana’s sound so sweet.


----------



## nelava17

bluestorm1992 said:


> Congrats and welcome to the club!
> 
> Eagerly waiting for my Verite Closed ATM. With your input, now I am confident that C9 and VC will sound excellent together!
> 
> As for uploading pics, can you try just drag the pic to the text input box? Alternatively, you can try use the “attached file” function right below the text input box.


OK...thank you...I appreciate it!  I think you will like the VC and the C9 Amp together.  ZMF also sells several different types of pads, that will allow you to somewhat tailor the sound to what you like.


----------



## bluestorm1992

nelava17 said:


> OK...thank you...I appreciate it!  I think you will like the VC and the C9 Amp together.  ZMF also sells several different types of pads, that will allow you to somewhat tailor the sound to what you like.


Just got my VC today, and it sings really well with C9 in tube mode!


----------



## eskamobob1 (Feb 23, 2021)

decur said:


> I really enjoy Diana with c9 in tube(timber) mode. the Diana’s and all the abyss’s in general are on the slightly bright side of the spectrum.
> in timber mode,I find it takes the edge off,and is more musical. The c9 has more than eneough  power for Diana V2’s tho not as much as
> my romi bx2+,ifi Idsd sig... the xi audio broadway about the same power, but the Broadway has a wider soundstage(by a little)
> while the romi bx2+ is an excellent value for the money,it is not in the same league as xi Broadway and cabin c9



Holy crap. Is that a LP6 TI _and_ a P6 Pro? Impressions please! Ive been super curious how they stack up but there are like 0 English reviews of the LP6 TI. Also, just in general, holy hell is that the holy land of portables...... Basically the only sumit-fi source I can even _think_ of not on that desk if the HM1000 and you have an r2r2k using the same chips....

Pure curiosity, maybe you have said elsewhere, how do you like the C9 and/or BX2+ with Susvara? TBH, I really want to pick up a pair, but I can't expect I will be able to actually power them since I am only portable.



Whitigir said:


> Would you pick BX2 over C9 ? If given 2 instances, cost-performances is a factor, or Cost is no objection ? Why ?



Well posed questions!



bluestorm1992 said:


> I also find the Broadway and C9 to be in the same league for driving the Diana V2. Broadway may edge C9 a slight bit in its tuning and soundstage that is done specifically with the Diana, but they are really close.



That's really intriguing. Having a viable way to power diana V2s portable will be quite nice. You dont feel you are loosing out on dynamics going with the C9?



decur said:


> So,as far as cost performance,you can pick up romi bx2+ for $745.00 on Ali express. For a class A,great sounding high powered portable that does not get real hot,light as a feather,not bad battery life. Not sure any thing can touch it at this price.with my my Diana V2’s I cannot get past 1pm. past 1pm and my head will explode. The c9 to me is absolutely worth 2k. Discrete,class a,tubes,long battery life,(a lot more transportable than my xi Broadway).
> when comparing bx2+ to c9 the 1st thing that sticks out to me is,bx2+ has that opamp sound vs that clean smooth discrete sound of c9.
> c9 is  more detailed than the romi,and the tube/timbre of c9 is the icing on the cake.
> I think c9 is not over priced,nor is it under priced.just my opinion.
> both are great amps



If you have a C9, do you think there is any reason to get the BX2+? This is kind of my main question right now. If I get the C9, will I still want the BX2+? Or be fine with _just_ the C9 (running off of a P6 Pro FWIW)

EDIT: Anyone with higher end desktop tube experience mind commenting on how the nutubes compair?


----------



## nelava17

Whitigir said:


> Congratulation and welcome to the club !


Thank you...I appreciate it!  I have ordered the Orbtronic batteries that you recommended earlier in this thread, but haven't received them yet.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 23, 2021)

eskamobob1 said:


> Holy crap. Is that a LP6 TI *and* a P6 Pro? Impressions please! Ive been super curious how they stack up but there are like 0 English reviews of the LP6 TI. Also, just in general, holy hell is that the holy land of portables...... Basically the only sumit-fi source I can even _think_ of not on that desk if the HM1000 and you have an r2r2k using the same chips....
> 
> Pure curiosity, maybe you have said elsewhere, how do you like the C9 and/or BX2+ with Susvara? TBH, I really want to pick up a pair, but I can't expect I will be able to actually power them since I am only portable.
> 
> ...


Absolutely no loss in dynamics to my ears when moving from the Broadway to C9. Sound stage and tuning are what changes somewhat to me. In SS mode V2 sounds a bit sharp, in tube mode V2 is more smooth. Broadway is the perfect balance in-between, but they are again really close.


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> Absolutely no loss in dynamics to my ears when moving from the Broadway to C9. Sound stage and tuning are what changes somewhat to me. In SS mode V2 sounds a bit sharp, in tube mode V2 is more smooth. Broadway is the perfect balance in-between, but they are again really close.


Don’t forget that you can tune some what with interconnect and cables as well as batteries with C9 .  Every little bit count


----------



## nelava17

bluestorm1992 said:


> Just got my VC today, and it sings really well with C9 in tube mode!


Agree with you there...I think you are probably going to be up late listening to it!


----------



## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> Don’t forget that you can tune some what with interconnect and cables as well as batteries with C9 .  Every little bit count


Iliad and Plato interconnects are already on the way!


----------



## bluestorm1992

nelava17 said:


> Agree with you there...I think you are probably going to be up late listening to it!


Absolutely!


----------



## nelava17

KickAssChewGum said:


> Welcome to Head-Fi and thanks for all your thoughts! And welcome to the C9 club too!


Thank you...I appreciate it!  When I first saw the price of the C9 Amp I was surprised that is was $2K (as I was expecting around $1.5K or so).  But after receiving it, I understand why as this is a really nice amp that can be used in multiple configurations.


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> Iliad and Plato interconnects are already on the way!


What are those ? May I see the links


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 23, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> What are those ? May I see the links


Interconnects to-be-realeased from Eletech. I have their headphone cables and they are marvelous. No pics for the interconnects yet, but I expect them to be similar to their headphone cables. In the attached pic, the one on the right is Iliad, and the one in the middle is another cable the Socrates.

Link to Iliad here: https://bloomaudio.com/collections/...iad-gold-silver-cable-for-headphones-and-iems


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> Interconnects to-be-realeased from Eletech. I have their headphone cables and they are marvelous. No pics for the interconnects yet, but I expect them to be similar to their headphone cables. In the attached pic, the one on the right is Iliad, and the one in the middle is another cable the Socrates.
> 
> Link to Iliad here: https://bloomaudio.com/collections/...iad-gold-silver-cable-for-headphones-and-iems


Fancy enough !! Now batteries!!


----------



## KickAssChewGum

bluestorm1992 said:


> Interconnects to-be-realeased from Eletech. I have their headphone cables and they are marvelous. No pics for the interconnects yet, but I expect them to be similar to their headphone cables. In the attached pic, the one on the right is Iliad, and the one in the middle is another cable the Socrates.
> 
> Link to Iliad here: https://bloomaudio.com/collections/...iad-gold-silver-cable-for-headphones-and-iems


Excellent cables!


----------



## nelava17

eskamobob1 said:


> Lol. Didnt realize we had so many P6P users here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you!  I will need some time to do this, but want to really compare the C9 to my other semi-portable amps (the Woo Audio WA8 and WA11) to see how the sound differs with various headphones.  I do think that the WA8 (tube amp) sounds noticeably better than the WA11 (solid state), but the C9 gives you both options in one amp.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Was doing some quick comparison tonight between the C9 stack and Hugo 2 (alone) in driving the Verite Closed. Both can do the job, but the C9 stack is obviously better (by quite a lot). The dynamics, clarity, and body of the sound all improves.  This is perhaps not too surprising given that Hugo 2 is not really very powerful for its amp section, but I think this further confirms C9’s ability in power hungry headphones.


----------



## bluestorm1992

nelava17 said:


> Thank you!  I will need some time to do this, but want to really compare the C9 to my other semi-portable amps (the Woo Audio WA8 and WA11) to see how the sound differs with various headphones.  I do think that the WA8 (tube amp) sounds noticeably better than the WA11 (solid state), but the C9 gives you both options in one amp.


I had the WA11 before and was not impressed by its performance. I have heard good things about WA8, especially in driving headphones.

I think the advantages C9 has over the WA8 are that C9 is designed to work with both IEMs and headphones and has a balanced output; it is also less bulky than WA8.


----------



## michaelc

brannigan said:


> Seeking some advice from experienced members here. I have been using the C9 in a particularly warm environment (30-35C) and it gets way too hot. Any recommendations for a good soft thermal conductor mat to place the C9 on ?



So it's impossible to hold with hands?
Is it ok to stack DAP on top of it?


----------



## jmills8

Whitigir said:


> *More Detailed review in IER-Z1R and C9*
> Excellent with Z1R! The powerful authorities of C9 is so well balanced and fine that it drives Z1R like nothing out there I have came through, except the DMP Z1.
> Dare I say that it actually is on par with DMP Z1 when driving Z1R IER, but with the options to switch timbres
> 
> ...





Shecky504 said:


> Thanks, I'm waiting on a battery for the DX160 so all I have left is the ZX300 with no line out. I will try that when I return home though.


So now both iBassos daps you have have issues ?


----------



## nelava17

bluestorm1992 said:


> I had the WA11 before and was not impressed by its performance. I have heard good things about WA8, especially in driving headphones.
> 
> I think the advantages C9 has over the WA8 are that C9 is designed to work with both IEMs and headphones and has a balanced output; it is also less bulky than WA8.


Agree, the C9 is much more versatile and seems to have more 'driving capability'...I have the volume control quite a bit lower on the C9 than on the W8 to achieve the same volume level with the same headphone.  Also my C9 weighs 560 grams, and my WA8 weighs 1230 grams.


----------



## eskamobob1

nelava17 said:


> Agree, the C9 is much more versatile and seems to have more 'driving capability'...I have the volume control quite a bit lower on the C9 than on the W8 to achieve the same volume level with the same headphone.  Also my C9 weighs 560 grams, and my WA8 weighs 1230 grams.


Wow. I didn't realize the wa8 was so chunky


----------



## Shecky504

I finally returned home and tried the single ended output on the DX300 and that works. Line out to the C9 works via single ended as well. I also tried the 2.5mm balanced PO on the DX300 and that has the same issue as the 4.4mm balanced out. It sounds like the balanced portion of the amp is blown. I'm hoping to get a replacement amp from iBasso to see if that fixes the issue.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Shecky504 said:


> I finally returned home and tried the single ended output on the DX300 and that works. Line out to the C9 works via single ended as well. I also tried the 2.5mm balanced PO on the DX300 and that has the same issue as the 4.4mm balanced out. It sounds like the balanced portion of the amp is blown. I'm hoping to get a replacement amp from iBasso to see if that fixes the issue.


Glad that you can at least use the SE line-out while waiting for the amp replacement.


----------



## KevP

Whitigir said:


> Thanks for the info.  I think the Pre Feature mostly is not working out as intended.  Using Line out is much more preferable on DAPs that has it


I’m not sure I agree from my own experience. I tried the pre setting on the C9, fed by the R8 last night. It was an amazing transformation from line out to line in on the C9


----------



## Nostoi

decur said:


> I really enjoy Diana with c9 in tube(timber) mode. the Diana’s and all the abyss’s in general are on the slightly bright side of the spectrum.
> in timber mode,I find it takes the edge off,and is more musical. The c9 has more than eneough  power for Diana V2’s tho not as much as
> my romi bx2+,ifi Idsd sig... the xi audio broadway about the same power,but the Broadway has a wider soundstage(by a little)
> while the romi bx2+ is an excellent value for the money,it is not in the same league as xi Broadway and cabin c9


Sick collection, as the kids say. I have a BX2 Plus and am waiting on a C9. Was going to do a comparison, but I'm happy someone else is doing it. 

Beyond power output, can you let me know if the C9 in SS mode competes with the BX2 Plus in terms of technicalities - i.e., imaging, speed, detail, etc? Thanks.


----------



## Nostoi

bluestorm1992 said:


> Was doing some quick comparison tonight between the C9 stack and Hugo 2 (alone) in driving the Verite Closed. Both can do the job, but the C9 stack is obviously better (by quite a lot). The dynamics, clarity, and body of the sound all improves.  This is perhaps not too surprising given that Hugo 2 is not really very powerful for its amp section, but I think this further confirms C9’s ability in power hungry headphones.


This is good to hear. Really looking forward to getting my C9! How much headroom does the C9 have when driving the VC via the Hugo 2?


----------



## Whitigir

KevP said:


> I’m not sure I agree from my own experience. I tried the pre setting on the C9, fed by the R8 last night. It was an amazing transformation from line out to line in on the C9


I am still not sure if the R8 is a true line out.  Trusting your ears is the only way to know


----------



## Bosk

nelava17 said:


> Thank you!  I will need some time to do this, but want to really compare the C9 to my other semi-portable amps (the Woo Audio WA8 and WA11) to see how the sound differs with various headphones.  I do think that the WA8 (tube amp) sounds noticeably better than the WA11 (solid state), but the C9 gives you both options in one amp.


I'm particularly keen to hear your WA8 vs C9 impressions.


----------



## Shawnb

I just discovered this a few days ago. Omg I so want one now. Balanced Nutubes is what I’ve wanted since I head the AMP9. Just gotta figure out how to afford it.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 24, 2021)

Nostoi said:


> This is good to hear. Really looking forward to getting my C9! How much headroom does the C9 have when driving the VC via the Hugo 2?


I am at high gain on C9, volume 40-50%. Anything above 50% will be too loud for me. The source N6ii A02 is in medium gain.

Edit: Oh I haven’t tried the Hugo 2 + C9 pairing with VC, but I suspect it will be the same: 50% of volume in high gain should be enough.


----------



## Shawnb

Debating ordering this or a pair of Code 51 headphone cables. Damaged the 2.5mm connector on my old cables so need new ones no matter what. Decisions, decisions.....


----------



## Whitigir

Shawnb said:


> Debating ordering this or a pair of Code 51 headphone cables. Damaged the 2.5mm connector on my old cables so need new ones no matter what. Decisions, decisions.....


With C9 that only offer 4.4mm...you can’t possibly damage the 4.4 “Accidentally”!

With 2.5mm broken, you gotta train yourself in “fishing” to fish it out of the socket if plugged in ....”fishing” not “trolling”


----------



## Shawnb

Whitigir said:


> With C9 that only offer 4.4mm...you can’t possibly damage the 4.4 “Accidentally”!
> 
> With 2.5mm broken, you gotta train yourself in “fishing” to fish it out of the socket if plugged in ....”fishing” not “trolling”


 
I was using the 4.4” to 2.5” adapter with my Max and yanked in the cable by accident. Appears I only damaged the prong on the 2.5” connector. I think I’m better off getting the C9 and then either repair my cable with a 4.4” or get a new one with a 4.4”.
The Code 51 cable would be 2.5” so I’d run into the same issue of potentially damaging it again.


----------



## Whitigir

Shawnb said:


> I was using the 4.4” to 2.5” adapter with my Max and yanked in the cable by accident. Appears I only damaged the prong on the 2.5” connector. I think I’m better off getting the C9 and then either repair my cable with a 4.4” or get a new one with a 4.4”.
> The Code 51 cable would be 2.5” so I’d run into the same issue of potentially damaging it again.


Yeah, I avoid 2.5 at all costs .  Looking forward to new member in the club !!


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 24, 2021)

Shawnb said:


> Debating ordering this or a pair of Code 51 headphone cables. Damaged the 2.5mm connector on my old cables so need new ones no matter what. Decisions, decisions.....


The improvement you are going to get from C9 is MUCH bigger than what you will get from a cable. My Iliad is almost at the same price as C9. It helps me to smooth out some harshness in my UM MEST, but I bought and keep it mainly because it looks great. C9, on the other hand, completely releases the potential of MEST. The harshness is smoothed out, the details and imaging are further improved. It basically transforms my MEST and elevates it to a new level.


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> The improvement you are going to get from C9 is MUCH bigger than what you will get from a cable. My Iliad is almost at the same price as C9. It helps me to smooth out some harshness in my UM MEST, but I bought and keep it mainly because it looks great. C9, on the other hand, completely releases the potential of MEST. The harshness is smoothed out, the details and imaging are further improved. It basically transforms my MEST and elevates it to a new level.


Cables alone, the C9 is the best improvements from any DAPs


----------



## Shawnb

My only concern is how I’m going to lug the Max abs C9 around. Might need to find a custom case I can clip to my belt that’ll fit both. Otherwise am very much looking forward to getting one.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 24, 2021)

Shawnb said:


> My only concern is how I’m going to lug the Max abs C9 around. Might need to find a custom case I can clip to my belt that’ll fit both. Otherwise am very much looking forward to getting one.


Clipping to the belt but to do what exactly ? Walk in the park ? Biking ? Moving from room to room, I just hold it in my hand


----------



## lumdicks (Feb 24, 2021)

Just got a new partner for my C9 and it really rocks!


----------



## Shawnb

Whitigir said:


> Clipping to the belt but to do what exactly ? Walk in the park ? Biking ? Moving from room to room, I just hold it in my hand



Walk around with it. Going to and from work on transit mostly. I’ll figure something out


----------



## Whitigir

Shawnb said:


> Walk around with it. Going to and from work on transit mostly. I’ll figure something out


I go to and from work by having it in a case, so I use it as semi transportable


----------



## michaelc

lumdicks said:


> Just got a new partner for my C9 and it really rocks!


 What is the differences for C9 pairing with either p6p and LPGT Ti?


----------



## lumdicks

michaelc said:


> What is the differences for C9 pairing with either p6p and LPGT Ti?


With Pre-amp in to C9 from both, I found the sound of LPGT Ti is having more dynamic and fuller body, and having very good micro-details, while P6-Pro is more analogue with darker background.


----------



## eskamobob1

lumdicks said:


> With Pre-amp in to C9 from both, I found the sound of LPGT Ti is having more dynamic and fuller body, and having very good micro-details, while P6-Pro is more analogue with darker background.



Interesting on the LPGT vs p6p. Tyvm.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> The improvement you are going to get from C9 is MUCH bigger than what you will get from a cable. My Iliad is almost at the same price as C9. It helps me to smooth out some harshness in my UM MEST, but I bought and keep it mainly because it looks great. C9, on the other hand, completely releases the potential of MEST. The harshness is smoothed out, the details and imaging are further improved. It basically transforms my MEST and elevates it to a new level.


Funny you mentioned that.   I buy cables mostly for how they look, too.  If they make my IEMs or Headphones sound better, that's a bonus.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Shawnb said:


> Debating ordering this or a pair of Code 51 headphone cables. Damaged the 2.5mm connector on my old cables so need new ones no matter what. Decisions, decisions.....


Just get the cable repaired and buy the C9.    I've never owned a cable over $1000, so I don't know what it sounds like, but it would be hard for me to imagine it outperforming the C9 in improving your sound.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

lumdicks said:


> Just got a new partner for my C9 and it really rocks!


Very nice.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> Was doing some quick comparison tonight between the C9 stack and Hugo 2 (alone) in driving the Verite Closed. Both can do the job, but the C9 stack is obviously better (by quite a lot). The dynamics, clarity, and body of the sound all improves.  This is perhaps not too surprising given that Hugo 2 is not really very powerful for its amp section, but I think this further confirms C9’s ability in power hungry headphones.


Okay, that does it   The C9 is in my future.  But, I don't need it yet.   I am currently listening to my Hugo 2 with my VC and they sound fantastic.


----------



## mammal

Interested in this as well, to pair it with my Hugo 2 as a DAC and compare to BX2-Plus to see what's more important (quality over raw power) to drive my Diana V2. However, where are you buying this from? Any store in Europe, somehow can't find anyone who has it on stock.


----------



## Shawnb

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Just get the cable repaired and buy the C9.    I've never owned a cable over $1000, so I don't know what it sounds like, but it would be hard for me to imagine it outperforming the C9 in improving your sound.



Yeah I'm going with the C9 and going to get the cable repaired. At least at some point, don't need it yet either. Contacted Light Harmonic to get the cable repaired. It'll be interesting to see if I get any support since it's LH and not LHL but as much as they claim it's two separate companies they aren't so I wait a few weeks and get someone else to repair them.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

mammal said:


> Interested in this as well, to pair it with my Hugo 2 as a DAC and compare to BX2-Plus to see what's more important (quality over raw power) to drive my Diana V2. However, where are you buying this from? Any store in Europe, somehow can't find anyone who has it on stock.


Interesting idea.   Although if you are going in that direction, I might go for a full sized balanced headphone amp and use the Hugo 2 like a Qutest.


----------



## mammal

@HiFiHawaii808 kinda need something battery powered and transportable, unfortunately. Forgot to call that requirement our, sorry!


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Feb 24, 2021)

mammal said:


> @HiFiHawaii808 kinda need something battery powered and transportable, unfortunately. Forgot to call that requirement our, sorry!


What are you going to use as source?   Laptop or DAP or other USB device like an iPhone?     The biggest issue I see with pairing the Hugo 2 with the C9 is that you still need a source and 3 devices in a chain is tough to lug around.   The Hugo 2 is a great DAC, but the use case with a separate DAC, AMP and source may pass the point of diminishing returns except maybe in a true desktop system with Roon.


----------



## eskamobob1

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> What are you going to use as source?   Laptop or DAP or other USB device like an iPhone?     The biggest issue I see with pairing the Hugo 2 with the C9 is that you still need a source and 3 devices in a chain is tough to lug around.   The Hugo 2 is a great DAC, but the use case with a separate DAC, AMP and source may pass the point of diminishing returns except maybe in a true desktop system with Roon.


would be fine with a 2go. I use my h2g as a true portable all the time.


----------



## KevP (Feb 27, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> Consider ordering from Musicteck and ship it to EU? A lot of people have done that before.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 27, 2021)

Edited**


----------



## KevP (Feb 27, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> 3 days and only $50 is much better than waiting for a month lol


----------



## cheznous

KevP said:


> Agreed. Not complaining. I was lucky to get one with the two UK dealers out of stock.


But will you not get hit by VAT and customs duty making it very expensive. Though Sterling is doing rather well against the dollar at the moment. 
when i looked at this it added around 400 /500 pounds to UK cost.


----------



## mammal

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> What are you going to use as source?   Laptop or DAP or other USB device like an iPhone?     The biggest issue I see with pairing the Hugo 2 with the C9 is that you still need a source and 3 devices in a chain is tough to lug around.   The Hugo 2 is a great DAC, but the use case with a separate DAC, AMP and source may pass the point of diminishing returns except maybe in a true desktop system with Roon.


Exactly that, I use Roon and have a RPi4 as a Roon Bridge to Hugo 2. I basically need to move between the office or living room, depending on where I work from that day. Hugo is easy to carry downstairs, as is raspberry pi (and power bank), or alternatively the laptop I work on (which can also be a bridge for Roon) connecting via usb to Hugo 2. I am sure you are now thinking I could as easy move my desktop gear downstairs)as long as it’s not as big as Holo May or Schiit Yggdrasil, but Hugo and an amp with rpi or a laptop works for me. I thought of using dap instead, but none of them support Roon directly and would downsample with Android mixer.


----------



## kwilkins (Feb 24, 2021)

A few posts have asked about the C9 compared to the Woo WA8 and I can share my impressions, I’ve had the WA8 for 2 months and the C9 for a week.

A quick background on my experience to manage your expectations of this comparison. I got into headphones at the end of last year and have enjoyed them tremendously and really jumped in the deep end, probably before I was ready to. I’m fortunate to be able to get some good gear but am still very much a novice and haven’t yet developed the audiophile “language” to give proper reviews like so many on Head-Fi do. So, if some of what I say is rudimentary or just flat out wrong it is because I’m still learning.

My current gear includes Utopia, Stellia, Susvara, MDR-Z1R and IER-Z1R. Chord TT2, M-Scaler, Mojo/Poly, Woo WA8, Cayin C9, Focal Arche. AK Kann Alpha and SP2000, Sony WM1Z and DMP-1Z. I have a few upgraded cables but nothing high end, a couple Dragon Cables from Moon and a used wireworld cable. Some of this gear I will soon be selling as I’ve upgraded and don’t use it anymore.

As I compare gear I’ve come to think about sound quality improvements in 3 stages.

1 – I don’t notice a difference, sound signatures may be somewhat different but overall sound quality is similar. As an example I find the AK SP2000 and the Sony WM1Z to have compareable sound quality even though they sound different from each other. The AK Kann Alpha on the other hand does not sound as good as either the AK SP2000 or the WM1Z.

2 – There is an improvement in sound quality but I need to listen for it. I experienced this the first time I used the Wireworld Nano Platinum Eclipse Cable with the Focal Utopia. My first impression was “I think this sounds better” and then after doing back to back comparisons with the Wireworld and the Black Dragon using the same song I could pick up on improvements with the Wireworld cable, but I had to somewhat pay attention to notice and appreciate the improvement.

3 – There is an immediate clearly noticeable improvement in sound quality. As an example, I had been listing to the WM1Z when the DMP-Z1 arrived. The first song I listened to on the Z1 I had just listened to on the WM1Z and I immediately heard a noticeable improvement in sound quality. There is obviously a scale to how significant the “immediate and noticeable” improvement is depending on the gear I am comparing. The difference going form the AK Kann Alpha with the MDR-Z1R to the TT2/M-Scaler with the Susvara is dramatic. With other comparisons improvements are very noticeable but not as dramatic.

When comparing the C9 to the Woo WA8 I find the WA8 to fall into category 3 and “to me” the WA8 has noticeably better sound quality. It is not a night and day difference and I really like the C9 but the WA8 with the same source and headphones does sound better. Tighter and stronger base, more details can be heard, a somewhat wider sound stage, and better separation. Again, I’m early in my experience curve and don’t yet have the right language to describe it better than that. I compared them with the C9 using tube, solid state, A and A/B, line out and pre-amp modes.

This is not to say the Woo WA8 is “better” than the C9. The WA8 is tube only, unbalanced, much larger and heavier, doesn’t have the A – A/B option. The C9 is much more flexible, provides more options, and is way more portable. Also, some have mentioned the C9 gets hot, I can tell you the WA8 gets much much hotter than the C9.

Anyway, I hope this is helpful to those wondering about C9 vs WA8.  I also understand others may feel differently about the comparison, if there is one thing I've learned form these forums debate and disagreement is alive and well.  I look forward to learning more and improving my ability to compare and review gear. I have learned a tremendous amount from the Head-Fi community and appreciate all of the expert advice and debate that you all contribute to the forum.


----------



## bluestorm1992

kwilkins said:


> A few posts have asked about the C9 compared to the Woo WA8 and I can share my impressions, I’ve had the WA8 for 2 months and the C9 for a week.
> 
> A quick background on my experience to manage your expectations of this comparison. I got into headphones at the end of last year and have enjoyed them tremendously and really jumped in the deep end, probably before I was ready to. I’m fortunate to be able to get some good gear but am still very much a novice and haven’t yet developed the audiophile “language” to give proper reviews like so many on Head-Fi do. So, if some of what I say is rudimentary or just flat out wrong it is because I’m still learning.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for sharing this! Really helpful for people considering between these two amps.

So it appears to me that it is not an easy choice one can make when choosing between them. With WA8 you get better sound, with C9 you get the portability and versatility in functionalities.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

kwilkins said:


> A few posts have asked about the C9 compared to the Woo WA8 and I can share my impressions, I’ve had the WA8 for 2 months and the C9 for a week.
> 
> A quick background on my experience to manage your expectations of this comparison. I got into headphones at the end of last year and have enjoyed them tremendously and really jumped in the deep end, probably before I was ready to. I’m fortunate to be able to get some good gear but am still very much a novice and haven’t yet developed the audiophile “language” to give proper reviews like so many on Head-Fi do. So, if some of what I say is rudimentary or just flat out wrong it is because I’m still learning.
> 
> ...


I didn't even get past the 2nd paragraph before I knew with absolute certainty that you need to adopt me.   I'm a bit old, but if you need an heir who will take great care of your cornucopia of audio gear, that's me.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

kwilkins said:


> A few posts have asked about the C9 compared to the Woo WA8 and I can share my impressions, I’ve had the WA8 for 2 months and the C9 for a week.
> 
> A quick background on my experience to manage your expectations of this comparison. I got into headphones at the end of last year and have enjoyed them tremendously and really jumped in the deep end, probably before I was ready to. I’m fortunate to be able to get some good gear but am still very much a novice and haven’t yet developed the audiophile “language” to give proper reviews like so many on Head-Fi do. So, if some of what I say is rudimentary or just flat out wrong it is because I’m still learning.
> 
> ...


In all seriousness, I have also been contemplating a WA8 because I have a Bottlehead Crack OTL Tube amp and I love it.    I was looking for a real portable tube amp option.  I liked the features of the C9, but I wondered if it could deliver the tube amp sound.     Seems that the WA8 may be a more complementary amp for me since I already have a Hugo 2.    I need to hear them to know for sure, but it's good to know someone has actually compared them.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

mammal said:


> Exactly that, I use Roon and have a RPi4 as a Roon Bridge to Hugo 2. I basically need to move between the office or living room, depending on where I work from that day. Hugo is easy to carry downstairs, as is raspberry pi (and power bank), or alternatively the laptop I work on (which can also be a bridge for Roon) connecting via usb to Hugo 2. I am sure you are now thinking I could as easy move my desktop gear downstairs)as long as it’s not as big as Holo May or Schiit Yggdrasil, but Hugo and an amp with rpi or a laptop works for me. I thought of using dap instead, but none of them support Roon directly and would downsample with Android mixer.


Got it.  The solution is clear.  You need 2 systems.    One for upstairs and one for downstairs.


----------



## Bosk

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Funny you mentioned that.   I buy cables mostly for how they look, too.  If they make my IEMs or Headphones sound better, that's a bonus.


Then may I introduce you to this little beauty, haven't heard it myself so can't comment on how it sounds - but that's not important right?  


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Feb 24, 2021)

Bosk said:


> Then may I introduce you to this little beauty, haven't heard it myself so can't comment on how it sounds - but that's not important right?
> 
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_


Yes, that is a beautiful cable.    I was only half kidding about the looks of a cable.   I am in the camp that cables make a difference in sound quality.   I've A/B tested several higher end cables and I like them for different purposes.    It's mostly that I am too cheap to pay over $400 for a cable even though I did it once.   The sweet spot for me is definitely under $400 depending on what I am pairing it with, but with the median in the $100-200 range.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 24, 2021)

Bosk said:


> Then may I introduce you to this little beauty, haven't heard it myself so can't comment on how it sounds - but that's not important right?
> 
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_


This cables isn’t cheap, I have the materials to make the exact same cables but it is going to cost some pretty penny.  Finally, nothing good is cheap....lol

WA8 won’t drive your In ears the way C9 will do.  My IER-Z1R bass slam drills into my brains and massages my eardrums.  That is how good it is.  It also can play at such low volume that I can speak to my wife next to me wearing and listening to IER-Z1R!

I love the Z1R more than ever!!!! This earbuds ain’t only about Bass and V-shape.  It is the most dynamic buds I have ever had, but that only shows with C9.  *But I can not drive the Z1R with any other things than the C9+A02 now.  Once you get captured by this level of dynamic from Z1R, you will forever be spoiled.....Be warned*


----------



## kwilkins

bluestorm1992 said:


> Thanks so much for sharing this! Really helpful for people considering between these two amps.
> 
> So it appears to me that it is not an easy choice one can make when choosing between them. With WA8 you get better sound, with C9 you get the portability and versatility in functionalities.


Yes, thanks for saying in a few words what took me paragraphs to get to


----------



## bluestorm1992

kwilkins said:


> Yes, thanks for saying in a few words what took me paragraphs to get to


Your detailed information and comparisons are extremely valuable! Thanks again for that.


----------



## kwilkins

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I didn't even get past the 2nd paragraph before I knew with absolute certainty that you need to adopt me.   I'm a bit old, but if you need an heir who will take great care of your cornucopia of audio gear, that's me.


I'm fortunate to have money for my hobbies but on the flip side I work an awful lot to produce the money and that doesn't leave enough time to enjoy the hobby as much as I would like.  For sure a good problem to have but as you can see adoption isn't in the cards just now.  Sorry son.


----------



## Whitigir

Well the C9 is only %10 away from a real desktop amp, but the portability and the way it drives in ears is Crazy.  It is definitely a winner in my book.

I would advise everyone to invest in the C9 if they could, and then worry about DAP, Sources later.  They can swap and upgrade DAP or sources, but the C9 will be there for a long while!!


----------



## Whitigir

kwilkins said:


> I'm fortunate to have money for my hobbies but on the flip side I work an awful lot to produce the money and that doesn't leave enough time to enjoy the hobby as much as I would like.  For sure a good problem to have but as you can see adoption isn't in the cards just now.  Sorry son.


You are already at the top of the chain , hat off to you


----------



## DarginMahkum

Whitigir said:


> C9 is only %10 away from a real desktop amp


Which one?


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 24, 2021)

DarginMahkum said:


> Which one?


Mini Dynalo.  If you are not familiar with it, it is almost similar to GSX family


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 24, 2021)

The little bird has arrived! First impression is very very good.  It has a really unique, intoxicated sound signature. It is natural, fluid, balanced, detailed.

My friend is trying out VC with the C9 stack right now.   Will be a dedicated Traillii listener for the next couple of days.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 24, 2021)

Some more quick impressions for anyone that is interested.


For the Traillii, now that I hear it a bit more, it actually reminds me of the mids of the Elysium, but done in the right way (my preferred way anyway). It is much more natural to me.

Ely is so much mid-focused and it strikes me as being somewhat unnatural. The mids of the Traillii has the wonderful texturing and layering of the Ely, without sacrificing all the other aspects of the music.

I am thinking the value of the Traillii. On the one hand you get this perfect blend of several TOTL IEMs, on the other hand it is not really unique in any of the aspect. This kind of reminds me of a review I have seen with the Susvara. It is not the super king in any specific dimension, like some people may say that its soundstage is not as expansive as HD800s; but, when putting everything together, it is just a wonderful package.

If you asks me whether you should consider getting the Traillii, my answer is if you could own just one IEM, then this is the one.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> Some more quick impressions for anyone that is interested.
> 
> 
> For the Traillii, now that I hear it a bit more, it actually reminds me of the mids of the Elysium, but done in the right way (my preferred way anyway). It is much more natural to me.
> ...


So are you going to buy one?


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 24, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> So are you going to buy one?


Maybe after I get my tax return!


----------



## immortalsoul

That is a big tax return,  nice


----------



## masahito24@chart

New toys just arrived in the mail from Musictek. 👍🏼


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

KevP said:


> Yes, I ordered from MusicTeck to the UK. Arrived in three days. Excellent, though it did cost 50USD for delivery


Don't feel bad.  I live in the USA and Musicteck treats Hawaii like it's an international location with the $50 shipping charge.   I end up having them ship things to my office on the mainland and have them ship it to me.


----------



## Whitigir

masahito24@chart said:


> New toys just arrived in the mail from Musictek. 👍🏼


Welcome to the club! You will love it!! I totally Do!!


----------



## masahito24@chart

Whitigir said:


> Welcome to the club! You will love it!! I totally Do!!


Thanks for the advice, It'll take me a few days to go through the rotation of headphones/IEMs. lol


----------



## michaelc

Whitigir said:


> This cables isn’t cheap, I have the materials to make the exact same cables but it is going to cost some pretty penny.  Finally, nothing good is cheap....lol
> 
> WA8 won’t drive your In ears the way C9 will do.  My IER-Z1R bass slam drills into my brains and massages my eardrums.  That is how good it is.  It also can play at such low volume that I can speak to my wife next to me wearing and listening to IER-Z1R!
> 
> I love the Z1R more than ever!!!! This earbuds ain’t only about Bass and V-shape.  It is the most dynamic buds I have ever had, but that only shows with C9.  *But I can not drive the Z1R with any other things than the C9+A02 now.  Once you get captured by this level of dynamic from Z1R, you will forever be spoiled.....Be warned*



Did you try any other DAP with C9 to Z1R?


----------



## Whitigir

michaelc said:


> Did you try any other DAP with C9 to Z1R?


Hmm...strange questions lol.  I didn’t try any DAP that I didn’t have for sure.


----------



## michaelc

Whitigir said:


> Hmm...strange questions lol.  I didn’t try any DAP that I didn’t have for sure.



Coz I am currently 'upgrading' my source + amp part....
Targetting C9 but I'm not sure about the source
The C9 demo unit will arrive around the end of Mar'21 in my area....


----------



## jmills8

kwilkins said:


> A few posts have asked about the C9 compared to the Woo WA8 and I can share my impressions, I’ve had the WA8 for 2 months and the C9 for a week.
> 
> A quick background on my experience to manage your expectations of this comparison. I got into headphones at the end of last year and have enjoyed them tremendously and really jumped in the deep end, probably before I was ready to. I’m fortunate to be able to get some good gear but am still very much a novice and haven’t yet developed the audiophile “language” to give proper reviews like so many on Head-Fi do. So, if some of what I say is rudimentary or just flat out wrong it is because I’m still learning.
> 
> ...


Nice write up , but which music track or tracks did you use ?


----------



## eskamobob1

michaelc said:


> Coz I am currently 'upgrading' my source + amp part....
> Targetting C9 but I'm not sure about the source
> The C9 demo unit will arrive around the end of Mar'21 in my area....



Whats your budget? P6 pro is badicaly the best portable LO SQ you can but, but it is 3500 usd


----------



## michaelc

eskamobob1 said:


> Whats your budget? P6 pro is badicaly the best portable LO SQ you can but, but it is 3500 usd



Tentatively targetting a used LPGT Ti (I got an offer at USD3k) or a new N6ii E02+A02
Yes. The price gap is there....and the diminishing return of the final 5%-10% might not worth it for some


----------



## Whitigir

eskamobob1 said:


> Whats your budget? P6 pro is badicaly the best portable LO SQ you can but, but it is 3500 usd


Why is that so ? How is it Line Out implemented ?  Have you compared it to others true line out source ? Because that was a very strong claim


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 24, 2021)

*Performance parameters of line output*

Distortion + noise: ﹤ 0.0004%

Signal to noise ratio: ﹥ 126.5dB (single-ended)

Frequency response: 20Hz-20kHz ± -0.5dB

Channel separation: ﹥ 98dB 10k load

Line output level: 3.5Vrms / 1.8Vrms / 0.9Vrms switchable design
*This below is A02 statements


Now, let’s base on the Claimed Specs alone.  The LP6TI has higher Dynamic range and lower floor noise but also lower channel separations or soundstage, where as the A02 is less in Dynamic range and higher in THD+N but also Higher Channel separations.

This below is P6Pro.  It does have the same THD as A02 and slightly better in Dynamic range, also higher channel separations*
3.5mm single-ended line output part performance parameters

S/N ratio: >123db (single-ended) Dynamic range: >118db (single-ended) Distortion and noise: <0.003% Frequency response: 20Hz-20KHz +/- 0.8db Channel separation:> 98db 10K load single-ended line Output level: 2.45Vrms/1.55Vrms/ switchable design



4.4mm balanced line output performance parameters

S/N ratio: >123.5db (balanced) Dynamic range: >118.5db (balanced) Distortion plus noise: <0.003% Frequency response: 20Hz-20KHz +/- 0.8db Channel separation:> 115db 10K load single-ended line Output level: 4.9Vrms/3.1Vrms/ switchable design

But the real questions is...*How is it implemented?* Is it True line out ? Resistors pulled Line out ? Or Pseudo Line out ? *Does it get effected by the Digital volume controls* , which can crush the bit and significantly impacting the dynamic range and channel separations ? Last and not least, does it have LPF Low Pass Filter options ? DSD filter options as A02 ?
A02 is True line out, does not use digital attenuations from the AKM Chips unless using preamp out which uses NJC electrical attenuations, also has plenty of Filters to play with.  It is an Android, open to streaming....etc
I will be curious to try out the P6Pro or LP6Ti, but I am not going to have all that money to afford them all ATM.  *The best Line out I have is my Desktop DAC, Max and A02, and I prefer A02 all day long with my C9.  So that to me is enough *


----------



## bluestorm1992

If I may intervene, just want to drop a nice pic of the Traillii and C9.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 24, 2021)

I have been looking into venting the heat out more efficiently to cool the C9.  It looks like the Heat is generated from the 2 sides toward the front at the Korg tubes of the C9 from this picture.  It also feel very warm at those sections as well.  I will tape on some cooling fin at the two sides for cooling purposes


----------



## Shecky504 (Feb 25, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> This cables isn’t cheap, I have the materials to make the exact same cables but it is going to cost some pretty penny.  Finally, nothing good is cheap....lol
> 
> WA8 won’t drive your In ears the way C9 will do.  My IER-Z1R bass slam drills into my brains and massages my eardrums.  That is how good it is.  It also can play at such low volume that I can speak to my wife next to me wearing and listening to IER-Z1R!
> 
> I love the Z1R more than ever!!!! This earbuds ain’t only about Bass and V-shape.  It is the most dynamic buds I have ever had, but that only shows with C9.  *But I can not drive the Z1R with any other things than the C9+A02 now.  Once you get captured by this level of dynamic from Z1R, you will forever be spoiled.....Be warned*


Since my balanced out is blown on my DX300 I tried the Z1R through single ended line out but really had to crank the C9 volume (in high gain, Class AB, Tube). The DX300 got very hot pretty quick. Does your DX300 exhibit the same heat in single ended line out to C9 with the Z1R? In general the DX300 wasn't getting very hot at all in balanced mode so I'm not sure if single ended requires more power or what it is.


----------



## RTodd

Whitigir said:


> *Performance parameters of line output*
> 
> Distortion + noise: ﹤ 0.0004%
> 
> ...


Thought the P6 and P6P use a bunch of relays for volume control in the chain after the digital processing and in the analog output amplification circuit?


----------



## Whitigir

Shecky504 said:


> Since my balanced out is blown on my DX300 I tried the Z1R through single ended line out but really had to crank the C9 volume (in high gain, Class AB, Tube). The DX300 got very hot pretty quick. Does your DX300 exhibit the same heat in single ended line out to C9 with the Z1R? In general the DX300 wasn't getting very hot at all in balanced mode so I'm not sure if single ended requires more power or what it is.


No, your Dx300 has problem.  I would recommend to stop using it before further damages


----------



## kwilkins

jmills8 said:


> Nice write up , but which music track or tracks did you use ?


alt-J - Breezeblocks
Miles Davis - So What
Pink Floyd - Paranoid Eyes
Supertramp - School


----------



## eskamobob1

Whitigir said:


> Why is that so ? How is it Line Out implemented ?  Have you compared it to others true line out source ? Because that was a very strong claim



P6 Pro uses a digital controlled analoge atentuatior. Further, this volume control is actualy between the dac stage and the amp stage (amp is a pure powrr amp) giving you a true passive preout.

Plus, with all the talk in the post below the one I'm quoting, I feel like you are completely ignoring the SQ of the dac imimentation. H2 has long been considered to outperform basicaly any dap in existence in terms of dac resolution, separation, and stage. The P6P beats the H2 in everything except for pure stage width (and it makes up for it with a much more dynamic and lifelike stage) by quite a margin. If there is some dap I am forgetting that beats the h2, please let me know, but I know for sure the sp2k, LPGT, and totl android ones just dont.


----------



## eskamobob1

ToddR said:


> Thought the P6 and P6P use a bunch of relays for volume control in the chain after the digital processing and in the analog output amplification circuit?


They do. The p6p output is a true passive preout.


----------



## eskamobob1

Whitigir said:


> I have been looking into venting the heat out more efficiently to cool the C9.  It looks like the Heat is generated from the 2 sides toward the front at the Korg tubes of the C9 from this picture.  It also feel very warm at those sections as well.  I will tape on some cooling fin at the two sides for cooling purposes



Be careful cooling too far. You can significantly decrease component life. Before modding the cooling on yours you should probabaly reach out to cayin and find out the optimal opporating temperature. The heat very well may be by design


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 25, 2021)

eskamobob1 said:


> P6 Pro uses a digital controlled analoge atentuatior. Further, this volume control is actualy between the dac stage and the amp stage (amp is a pure powrr amp) giving you a true passive preout.
> 
> Plus, with all the talk in the post below the one I'm quoting, I feel like you are completely ignoring the SQ of the dac imimentation. H2 has long been considered to outperform basicaly any dap in existence in terms of dac resolution, separation, and stage. The P6P beats the H2 in everything except for pure stage width (and it makes up for it with a much more dynamic and lifelike stage) by quite a margin. If there is some dap I am forgetting that beats the h2, please let me know, but I know for sure the sp2k, LPGT, and totl android ones just dont.


SQ is subjective and even Ibasso Dx220Max can be said to outperform H2 in some people preferences.  I never ignore anything as I am very picky in buying my stuff.  Resistor ladders has it pros and cons, the best there is technically is still going to be IC Chips....not even FPGA based like Chord can outperform that technically and on paper.  That is why the only marvelous thing from LP brand is really the LP6Gold and LP6Ti .  You can read more into Resistor tolerances and Silicon Wafer based with Lazer trim technology in an IC chip and it tolerances (precision tolerances).  Then also take into consideration about Error corrections and why Resistor ladders have to use FPGA for that.

Speaking of which, AK4497EQx2 is two desktop IC level  already.

Have you tried the A02 VS P6Pro to claim P6Pro line out as the best and advising other people ?


----------



## Whitigir

eskamobob1 said:


> Be careful cooling too far. You can significantly decrease component life. Before modding the cooling on yours you should probabaly reach out to cayin and find out the optimal opporating temperature. The heat very well may be by design


Please .... I am not a 3 years old kid in these matters (building amplifier and so on...).  The only “heat ambient by design” should be used for Discrete resistors ladder on P6P and it doesn’t even use anything of such.

Try searching MSB R2R boards VS P6P board. You will see the MSB is encased within a Brass-gold casing specifically for that purposes


----------



## eskamobob1 (Feb 25, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> SQ is subjective and even Ibasso Dx220Max can be said to outperform H2 in some people preferences.  I never ignore anything as I am very picky in buying my stuff.  Resistor ladders has it pros and cons, the best there is technically is still going to be IC Chips....not even FPGA based like Chord can outperform that technically and on paper.  That is why the only marvelous thing from LP brand is really the LP6Gold and LP6Ti .  You can read more into Resistor tolerances and Silicon Wafer based with Lazer trim technology in an IC chip and it tolerances (precision tolerances).  Then also take into consideration about Error corrections and why Resistor ladders have to use FPGA for that.
> 
> Speaking of which, AK4497EQx2 is two desktop IC level  already.
> 
> Have you tried the A02 VS P6Pro to claim P6Pro line out as the best and advising other people ?



Is max better SQ because it has a better dac implementation? Or because it just has a better amp? The LPGT Ti poops all over the LPGT, but the _only_ difference is the fact it has a better/more powerful amp. As an AIO, a fantastic amp is crazy valuable even on a crappy dac (let's not forget amps tend to effect SQ far more than DACs until you get to much higher end than even the C9). But we aren't talking AIO. We are talking as a LO source (and if the amp isn't bypassed its not actualy LO). 

As for your last point. You heard the p6p? I was pretty sure you have stated you haven't, but you have been heartily recommending the A02 for weeks here. We all have blind spots in our listening. From people who's ears i trust, the H2 just poops all over the 6ii with any board they have tried and the p6p beats the H2, hence my recommendation. I would quite love for anyonr in here with both the A02 on the 6ii and the P6P to compair though. 

As for price to performance, to be dead honest, im not realy sure why we are talking about it in this thread. This is a thread about a 2k portable amp that people are pairing with hi-fi gear at a minimum, and far more commonly, with sumit-fi gear (VCs litteraly being "cheap" compaired to half the transducers posted here). Price to performance went out the window like $1600 ago on this amp.

Edit: I just realized you are one of the guys reqing expensive cables. How do you put that much emphasis on measurements in one post and then req cables based on material and not measurements?


----------



## eskamobob1

Whitigir said:


> Please .... I am not a 3 years old kid in these matters (building amplifier and so on...).  The only “heat ambient by design” should be used for Discrete resistors ladder on P6P and it doesn’t even use anything of such.
> 
> Try searching MSB R2R boards VS P6P board. You will see the MSB is encased within a Brass-gold casing specifically for that purposes



👍


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 25, 2021)

eskamobob1 said:


> Is max better SQ because it has a better dac implementation? Or because it just has a better amp? The LPGT Ti **** all over the LPGT, but the _only_ difference is the fact it has a better/more powerful amp. As an AIO, a fantastic amp is crazy valuable even on a crappy dac (let's not forget amps tend to effect SQ far more than DACs until you get to much higher end than even the C9). But we aren't talking AIO. We are talking as a LO source (and if the amp isn't bypassed its not actualy LO).
> 
> As for your last point. You heard the p6p? I was pretty sure you have stated you haven't, but you have been heartily recommending the A02 for weeks here. We all have blind spots in our listening. From people who's ears i trust, the H2 just **** all over the 6ii with any board they have tried and the p6p beats the H2, hence my recommendation. I would quite love for anyonr in here with both the A02 on the 6ii and the P6P to compair though.
> 
> ...


Have not heard P6P and never stated or recommended A02 over the P6P because no comparison had been done in my sides

Also I have stated A02 is the best Lineout I have known for Portable.  It certainly is better than Max Line out.  You would never see me claiming “H2” or MSB is the best DAC I have known ...because I never listened to it

I am pretty sure the forum regulations explicitly stated that, you could only advise and state your claims with what you have owned or experienced with.

Anyways, It would be a lot better place when we stick to the regulations for some matters that is already confusing and subjective as it is.


----------



## eskamobob1

Lol. No comments on my question about cables?


----------



## michaelc

For me...I appreciated all comments, impression and opinions here.

That's give me the general idea or direction where should I go. For now, I will definitely wanna try out C9 + A02 if the combo is available for audition coz it's highly recommended by few forumer here.

IMHO, measurement or spec = statement by the company on what they can do. So, nothing wrong to compare those. At least, I will check the spec after I see the product design then proceed to "listen"....lol

Just my 2 cents


----------



## eskamobob1 (Feb 25, 2021)

michaelc said:


> For me...I appreciated all comments, impression and opinions here.
> 
> That's give me the general idea or direction where should I go. For now, I will definitely wanna try out C9 + A02 if the combo is available for audition coz it's highly recommended by few forumer here.
> 
> ...



100% agree. Imo, measurements are quite useful to show if a product is just poorly performing, but once we hit a kinda of requisite level (taht idk I have seen any hi-fi marketed portables miss) its the intangibles that start playing a bigger roll. Honestly, the A02 seems like a solid move and is a great deal cheaper than the p6p (I think a02+C9 is the same price as P6P alone). No reason you won't be satisfied with it from the reviews here unless you get the upgrade itch. 

I was just giving my take that comparing very high THD vs extremely high THD to say something isn't better is disingenuous directly after recommending something

Edit: btw, anyone know how to like a post on mobile? Wont seem to pop the button up for me that can't be measured

Edit2: I just realized you have a p6k. Currious to see what you think of it vs the a02 give it has true LO and, from what I have seen, is reported to be top of its tier sub 1k portables


----------



## michaelc

eskamobob1 said:


> 100% agree. Imo, measurements are quite useful to show if a product is just poorly performing, but once we hit a kinda of requisite level (taht idk I have seen any hi-fi marketed portables miss) its the intangibles that start playing a bigger roll. Honestly, the A02 seems like a solid move and is a great deal cheaper than the p6p (I think a02+C9 is the same price as P6P alone). No reason you won't be satisfied with it from the reviews here unless you get the upgrade itch.
> 
> I was just giving my take that comparing very high THD vs extremely high THD to say something isn't better is disingenuous directly after recommending something
> 
> ...


I just sold my p6k yesterday...lol
Tentatively using H2 only...I'm going to get LPGT Ti hopefully tomorrow.

Both A02 and LPGT are using 4497 chip. 

However, C9 is out of stock everywhere in my country. They don't even have a demo unit. Hopefully I can test it by end of next month with A02, if available.


----------



## DarginMahkum

Damn this hobby! My consciousness tells me "don't be an idiot, you're only doing home office, you don't even go out to a park, it is anyway winter, and you already have an $8000 desktop device, HA200 which is way above and beyond any portable setup, on top of that you have two powerful DAPs, DX300 and W1 that can drive your headphones pretty well, what the $#! do you need another device for???"

but then enters my itch

"don't be an idiot, this looks like a cool device, you still have cash left and if aliens invade the earth tomorrow it won't be worth anything, life is short and your ears are degrading, you must try this, if you think it is not needed you can easily sell it"

Who else is there!!?!?!?

Fortunately it is sold out.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 25, 2021)

My cooling fins has arrived and I am using it here where Cayin also uses the Thermal Sheets internally toward the chassis.  So using at this section will help it the most.  For now it will cover up the Pre-button on the side.  If it does well enough, I will buy more and cut it to custom a bit for battery screws and the Preamp button

So far it helps gripping the C9 more securely due to the fins structures and also they heats up more than the chassis.  That means they are working pretty well

They are pre tapes, just peel and apply directly, the glue is super strong, and on the sides, you can easily fit 2X per sides, but need to have opening for Pre-buttons and battery screw holes

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B08HJ6JMLG?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title


----------



## mammal

What does the preamp button do anyway? Isn't there already a switch that does line/preamp mode? I am missing something


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 25, 2021)

mammal said:


> What does the preamp button do anyway? Isn't there already a switch that does line/preamp mode? I am missing something


Preamp button is to enable the volume control bypass.  The switch is the 1st step to trigger the C9 into preamp mode, but it needs the 2nd step to by pass the volume....that means it will be a *power amp, always at full output power*.  So, you need to hold the pre button for 4-5 seconds every time you plug and unplug or power cycle on/off


----------



## bluestorm1992

mammal said:


> What does the preamp button do anyway? Isn't there already a switch that does line/preamp mode? I am missing something


This two-step measure prevents you from hitting the mode switch accidentally and blow your ears.


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> This two-step measure prevents you from hitting the mode switch accidentally and blow your ears.


Also your headphones or earbuds....it was so hard to trigger that I almost really blow off my ears LOL!!!!


----------



## MarkParity

bluestorm1992 said:


> This two-step measure prevents you from hitting the mode switch accidentally and blow your ears.


PARDON?


----------



## Whitigir

MarkParity said:


> PARDON?


Here, read my post a couple posts above 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...able-headphone-amplifier.943135/post-16201468


----------



## DaYooper

So I see Musicteck no longer has the A02 board listed. Does that mean I have successfully resisted the temptation?


----------



## Whitigir

DaYooper said:


> So I see Musicteck no longer has the A02 board listed. Does that mean I have successfully resisted the temptation?


You probably just did ? Lol....but you already have Captain China in your arsenal! The LP6Ti


----------



## MarkParity

Whitigir said:


> Here, read my post a couple posts above
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...able-headphone-amplifier.943135/post-16201468


It was an attempt at humour, poor I know, I quoted without the lockout it may damage your ears I said PARDON? But once I had to explain it... Perhaps I should have put a


----------



## eskamobob1

DarginMahkum said:


> Damn this hobby! My consciousness tells me "don't be an idiot, you're only doing home office, you don't even go out to a park, it is anyway winter, and you already have an $8000 desktop device, HA200 which is way above and beyond any portable setup, on top of that you have two powerful DAPs, DX300 and W1 that can drive your headphones pretty well, what the $#! do you need another device for???"
> 
> but then enters my itch
> 
> ...



Hahahaha. I think we all get that itch. I have a P6P and predominantly use Mests and am _extraordinarily_ happy with my music listening experience. But then I go "but what if I get C9 and a diana..."



Whitigir said:


> Here, read my post a couple posts above
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...able-headphone-amplifier.943135/post-16201468



He was making a joke about blowing his ears out



DaYooper said:


> So I see Musicteck no longer has the A02 board listed. Does that mean I have successfully resisted the temptation?



Hahaha. The saver of wallets: stock issues


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 25, 2021)

DaYooper said:


> So I see Musicteck no longer has the A02 board listed. Does that mean I have successfully resisted the temptation?


When I was buying it, Andrew told me that there were only 3 A02 left. Cayin also has no future plans to make more, so I think A02 is genuinely sold out.


----------



## eskamobob1

DaYooper said:


> So I see Musicteck no longer has the A02 board listed. Does that mean I have successfully resisted the temptation?



Oh damn, another LP6 Ti owner? Mind posting impressions against the regular /LPGT? I've been drooling over the LP6Ti tbh, bit I can't find any English impressions of it realy.

Also, that ibasso SR2 m8. I was super underwhelmed out of the box. Then I realized its because it does nothing wrong. Realy serious can for the like $350 I see it on sale for from time to time


----------



## eskamobob1

bluestorm1992 said:


> When I was buying it, Andrew told me that there were only 3 A02 left. Cayin also has no future plans to make more, so I think A02 is genuinely sold out.



Thats interesting. Winder if they are dropping a new dap soon to replace it seeing as LO module seems like a natural choice when you just brought out the C9


----------



## bluestorm1992

eskamobob1 said:


> Thats interesting. Winder if they are dropping a new dap soon to replace it seeing as LO module seems like a natural choice when you just brought out the C9


I think Cayin themselves were not thinking that they can sell that many A02... They were also surprised by the sales volume of C9.


----------



## DaYooper

Several other motherboards also do line out. And as for comparing the LP6Ti, well let's just say it's the only one I connect to my HA-6A now.


----------



## Whitigir

eskamobob1 said:


> bluestorm1992 said:
> 
> 
> > I think Cayin themselves were not thinking that they can sell that many A02... They were also surprised by the sales volume of C9.


I think the same, both C9 and A02 is such a huge success!!! Very affordable and price/performances ratio is Excellent


----------



## Whitigir

The C9 and the cooling fins are great.  It helps cooling a little more but the most important point is that it allow grabbing the C9 Stack with better grips and also it won’t be too hot to the touch due to the fins that helps venting the heats.  So at least after 3 hours listening or so, you won’t have problem holding it in your hand while gripping the sides that has the heat sink attached.

I think 2 of them are good enough, because the back of the chassis is only empty spaces.  May be using 2 more on the top is ok, but that will interfere with holding the C9 and or flipping around to browse the player.


----------



## eskamobob1

bluestorm1992 said:


> I think Cayin themselves were not thinking that they can sell that many A02... They were also surprised by the sales volume of C9.



Haha. That is very very possible



DaYooper said:


> Several other motherboards also do line out. And as for comparing the LP6Ti, well let's just say it's the only one I connect to my HA-6A now.



Hot damn. I've got a line on one and I am pretty tempted, but ive already got a P6P. Just need to find someone who can compare the two (especially on LO)


----------



## Andykong (Feb 27, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If we need to explore the limit of C9 in terms of hard-to-drive planars, I think we we can add HEDDphone in between Diana and AB1266/Susvara/HE6.  I don't think C9 can handle HEDDphone properly but worth checking out.   

By the way, there are two closed back planars that I really want to check out: LCD-X and DCA Ether-C Flow.   Given the portable nature of C9, closed back headphone has a functional synergy, and there isn't a lot of choice when come to closed back planars.  These two planars are no where near portable-friendly in my experience,  so I hope someone can provide a quick impression of C9 with these two closed-back down the road.


----------



## Whitigir

Andykong said:


> If we need to explore the limit of C9 in terms of hard-to-drive planars, I think we we can add HEDDphone in between Diana and AB1266/Susvara/HE6.  I don't think C9 can handle HEDDphone properly but worth checking out.
> 
> By the way, there are two closed back planars that I really want to check out: LCD-X and DCA Ether-C Flow.   Given the portable nature of C9, closed back headphone has a functional synergy, and there isn't a lot of choice when come to closed back planars.  These two planars are no where near portable-friendly in my experience,  so I hope someone can provide a quick impression of C9 with these two closed-back down the road.


Now for such thing like that, you should as Cayin to send sample to HeadFi Supremus member who uses headphones as main uses and have those in their Arsenal 

Anyways, if Cayin so want to, they can be innovative and create something for those users to need their demands.  At least in my opinion, Cayin has been proven and able to do such.  I am looking forward to Cayin future plans


----------



## bluestorm1992

Andykong said:


> If we need to explore the limit of C9 in terms of hard-to-drive planars, I think we we can add HEDDphone in between Diana and AB1266/Susvara/HE6.  I don't think C9 can handle HEDDphone properly but worth checking out.
> 
> By the way, there are two closed back planars that I really want to check out: LCD-X and DCA Ether-C Flow.   Given the portable nature of C9, closed back headphone has a functional synergy, and there isn't a lot of choice when come to closed back planars.  These two planars are no where near portable-friendly in my experience,  so I hope someone can provide a quick impression of C9 with these two closed-back down the road.


Andy you are back! Now we have 40 new pages and tons for you to reply.


----------



## eskamobob1 (Feb 26, 2021)

Andykong said:


> If we need to explore the limit of C9 in terms of hard-to-drive planars, I think we we can add HEDDphone in between Diana and AB1266/Susvara/HE6.  I don't think C9 can handle HEDDphone properly but worth checking out.
> 
> By the way, there are two closed back planars that I really want to check out: LCD-X and DCA Ether-C Flow.   Given the portable nature of C9, closed back headphone has a functional synergy, and there isn't a lot of choice when come to closed back planars.  These two planars are no where near portable-friendly in my experience,  so I hope someone can provide a quick impression of C9 with these two closed-back down the road.



Something tells me you aren't in socal, but if yiu are, I would be happy to meet you and lend you both. As for the XC, honestly, its fairly easy to drive. The current spikes are obviously an issue, but my micro BL has absalitely 0 issues so I can't imagine the C9 will either.

Edit: I agree with above though. If you create a portable capable of fully pushing susvara under 2k ill insta buy


----------



## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> Now for such thing like that, you should as Cayin to send sample to HeadFi Supremus member who uses headphones as main uses and have those in their Arsenal
> 
> Anyways, if Cayin so want to, they can be innovative and create something for those users to need their demands.  At least in my opinion, Cayin has been proven and able to do such.  I am looking forward to Cayin future plans


Doing a demo unit tour will be a great thing for Cayin! Especially in EU where C9 does not seem to be widely available just yet.


----------



## Whitigir

The A02 also needs burn in.  The more burn in the A02 has, the better the bass articulations and textures fidelity becomes as the most obvious evolving proofs.  The A02 when new has a very dry and solid state like timbres, super fast transient, Bass energy, density and decays were too quickly dissipated, ripples are weak and quickly decay away.  It takes about 50 hours and the A02 is now much better in those areas.  So addictive.

So, just a head up, if you are not satisfied with A02 out of the box, let her burn in for a little.  Or else you can PM me, I will grab her for possible modifications project


----------



## mammal

eskamobob1 said:


> Edit: I agree with above though. If you create a portable capable of fully pushing susvara under 2k ill insta buy


Wouldn't BX2 Plus suffice? It puts out 5900mW into 32Ohm in balanced. I am mentioning this as I would like to compare C9 to BX2 with my Dianas. So far I read BX2 Plus is more powerful, but less resolving than C9.


----------



## eskamobob1

mammal said:


> Wouldn't BX2 Plus suffice? It puts out 5900mW into 32Ohm in balanced. I am mentioning this as I would like to compare C9 to BX2 with my Dianas. So far I read BX2 Plus is more powerful, but less resolving than C9.



Susvara need more like something along the lines of 5w at 60ohm if not a bit more


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 26, 2021)

eskamobob1 said:


> Susvara need more like something along the lines of 5w at 60ohm if not a bit more


Susvara needs 200W @ 8 ohms.  Yes, you read that right, hook it up into the speakers out on the Large stereos speakers....no jokes!

When I realized that was not a joke, I sat down on my couch and slam my large speakers instead, and now the jokes is on me


----------



## Nostoi

Anyone know where I can get a mini rack system like this one?


----------



## Whitigir

Nostoi said:


> Anyone know where I can get a mini rack system like this one?


That look nice , but why not just stack them up instead


----------



## Nostoi

Whitigir said:


> That look nice , but why not just stack them up instead


I guess for cooling and also to keep them scuff free? Looks neater, too, especially on a desktop.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 26, 2021)

Nostoi said:


> I guess for cooling and also to keep them scuff free? Looks neater, too, especially on a desktop.


I never get any scuff if I stack with picture hangers.  I can take them places as well.  Also easy to split apart if needed


----------



## eskamobob1

Nostoi said:


> Anyone know where I can get a mini rack system like this one?



Lol at using a 3k dap as a pure coax source. Looks nice as well though. A little jelly. Good news is that isnt hard to make at all. Just stand offs and some laser cut lexan


----------



## eskamobob1

Whitigir said:


> Susvara needs 200W @ 8 ohms.  Yes, you read that right, hook it up into the speakers out on the Large stereos speakers....no jokes!
> 
> When I realized that was not a joke, I sat down on my couch and slam my large speakers instead, and now the jokes is on me


I realy wish I could find an impedance curve for susvara. The 1k impedance of 83db/mw gives you like 5W continuous to safely reach 120db for good dynamics, but everyone I know with a pair goes "yah, I do 25W into 60 ohm, but if you can go 200W into 60ohm, just go for it. It keeps getting better"


----------



## DaYooper

Nostoi said:


> Anyone know where I can get a mini rack system like this one?


Seems to me I saw those in some other thread and it was said they were 3D printed or something like that.


----------



## Lu88

Nostoi said:


> Anyone know where I can get a mini rack system like this one?


It's available on amazon.co.jp.  Though I’m not sure if they will ship internationally.
https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B07NDRD2PT/
https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B07NDRF6JN/


----------



## Nostoi (Feb 26, 2021)

Lu88 said:


> It's available on amazon.co.jp.  Though I’m not sure if they will ship internationally.
> https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B07NDRD2PT/
> https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B07NDRF6JN/


Perfect, thank you! They do ship to Austria. 

I put in an order - should be here next week.


----------



## RTodd

eskamobob1 said:


> Lol at using a 3k dap as a pure coax source. Looks nice as well though. A little jelly. Good news is that isnt hard to make at all. Just stand offs and some laser cut lexan


Exactly what I was thinking.


----------



## Nostoi

Another pic of the two-tier rack:


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 26, 2021)

Nostoi said:


> Another pic of the two-tier rack:


The heat sink under the C9 will not do it job properly.  The underneath is Plexi glass plate and with Vinyl protector.  They are not thermal conductive.  To better dissipating the heats away from the C9, the heat sink better be placed on the sides of the C9 and next place is the top side.  They are anodized aluminum and can help dissipate the heat much better than the plexi glass underneath or ...plastic plate

Nice looking though, but seems to stay on top of the desk setup, why not desktop instead :/ ?


----------



## Andykong

xand said:


> Good idea! Will consider.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





xand said:


> I want a 60cm cable which isn't materially worse than the stock cable....



I can think of several options but you'll need to buy the bare cable and DIY the 4.4mm connectors.  If you are not going to DIY and a 60cm 4.4mm to 4.4mm interconnect is not really an off-the-shelf item, maybe the easiest way is to check with your local cable shop to custom make a cable for you.   Tell them what you need and I am sure they'll come up with something within your budget. 



Bosk said:


> Sorry it's dragging things slightly OT, but I'm currently using an unshielded non-litz 70cm silver 8-core 3.5mm interconnect between my DAP & amp. Do you think for a cable of this length there might be much benefit in adding a layer or two of shielding? I know braiding offers RFI rejection of sorts, but of course the really pricey analog interconnects out there (Nordost etc.) are generally shielded and often elaborately so. Very interested to get your thoughts.



Yes, I think a 70cm cable should be shielded because our listening environment is get more RF interference than before.  When you stretch the interconnect between DAP and C9 into a straight line, it will become an RF antenna. 

If you look for quad-core  audio cable from Pro brands such as Gotham or Sommer, you should find a lot of budgeted choice.  Gotham 11301 probably requires a lot of work if you want to squeeze it into a 4.4mm connection, but I have very good experience with Sommer Epilogue (unfortunately I can buy bulk Epilogue in HK but can't find it from eBay or US retail) or Excelsior BlueWater. 

Alternatively you can add a shield with braided sleeving.  Just insert your current cable into the metallic sleeve and the wrap it with a layer of nylon sleeve, and connect the metallic sleeve to the 4.4mm ground pin.


----------



## Andykong

bluestorm1992 said:


> Andy you are back! Now we have 40 new pages and tons for you to reply.


Well,  yes, horrible, I left at page 83, exactly 40 pages away in 2 weeks.   Don't worry, I'll get there, slowly and gradually.


----------



## Nostoi

Whitigir said:


> The heat sink under the C9 will not do it job properly.  The underneath is Plexi glass plate and with Vinyl protector.  They are not thermal conductive.  To better dissipating the heats away from the C9, the heat sink better be placed on the sides of the C9 and next place is the top side.  They are anodized aluminum and can help dissipate the heat much better than the plexi glass underneath or ...plastic plate
> 
> Nice looking though, but seems to stay on top of the desk setup, why not desktop instead :/ ?


I just saw this on Twitter, so can't speak of the motivation for putting the heat sink below. 

It seems fairly transportable to me. Would seem to make a good stand for one's beside table as well as a desktop. Optional to have either way.


----------



## Andykong (Feb 27, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> My wife doesn't know about all this (yet). 🤫





bluestorm1992 said:


> Got it, then it seems there are some confess I need to make.  Probably should start to consider buying something for her to hopefully get away from this purchase.



I guess we all have this problem.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 26, 2021)

Nostoi said:


> I just saw this on Twitter, so can't speak of the motivation for putting the heat sink below.
> 
> It seems fairly transportable to me. Would seem to make a good stand for one's beside table as well as a desktop. Optional to have either way.


If you want to move it around with that exact stack, you will need to have some meaning to attach and a fix them on to the shelves , like Velcro and so on.  Otherwise, it will slip away if you attempt to carry it just from room to room ?  If you have to use something like that then just stacking one on top another using picture hangers and carry away.  You can even walk the dog and around the park if you wanted to
Also, if you attempt to transport that shelves stacks from work to homes, you will need to take them apart, plugging and unplugging ...etc...unless using Velcro again.  But if that is the way you preferred .  It look good though

I am also trying to find some meanings to better carrying the C9 around with me


----------



## Andykong

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I think you the person who can tell me what I want to know.   I have an R6 2020, a bottlehead crack OTL tube amp and a ZMF Verite closed headphone.   I love them all.   I've been pairing my R6 with my Hugo 2.
> 
> I am in the market for a portable tube amp because it's not practical to travel with my BHC even though I did it last summer.    How does the tube amp of the C9 compare to a full size tube amp?    I'd like to travel with my VC, but my favorite way to listen to them is with my BHC.    Does the C9 sound like a full size desktop tube amp?
> 
> I'd also like to see what the tube sound does to my IEMs.  Since the BHC is OTL, I can't drive them with it.



The C9 doesn't sound like a full size desktop tube amplifier because it is a Hybrid: the final output stage is a fully discrete amplification circuit, not tube amplification form start to end.  The Nutube doesn't offer enough current to draw even regular IEMs, so we can't implement a tube headphone amp on its own.

By the way, wander why you can't use OTL with IEM?  The noise floor is very high?


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> A02 is a true line out.  It is a dedicated source.  It does MQA upto 8X though



R8 offers 16x MQA, we need to give credit to the R8 if MQA is a deal breaker.


----------



## Nostoi

Whitigir said:


> If you want to move it around with that exact stack, you will need to have some meaning to attach and a fix them on to the shelves , like Velcro and so on.  Otherwise, it will slip away if you attempt to carry it just from room to room ?  If you have to use something like that then just stacking one on top another using picture hangers and carry away.  You can even walk the dog and around the park if you wanted to
> Also, if you attempt to transport that shelves stacks from work to homes, you will need to take them apart, plugging and unplugging ...etc...unless using Velcro again.  But if that is the way you preferred .  It look good though
> 
> I am also trying to find some meanings to better carrying the C9 around with me


I'll give it a whirl when it arrives. I really don't transport any of my gear around outside, so I'm sure it can makes the voyage from my desk to the lounge without issue.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 26, 2021)

Andykong said:


> R8 offers 16x MQA, we need to give credit to the R8 if MQA is a deal breaker.


Mezhhh, MQA is ok, but I always prefer real Hi-Res whether PCM 192Khz or DSD of anything.

A lot of modern music is now shifting from recording and publishing at the least of 24/48Khz or higher...ooh, some of them is MP3 recorded and upsampled as well....But I believe MQA is trying to not drowning itself desperately
Just give me more Line out source like A02 with better builds or whatever , dedicated Operating System, and also Android 10 as an options with super SOC for UI and I am cool.  I mean, not like Cayin can’t pull off an N6iii with Snapdragon 880, 6Gb Ram, dual MicroSD, A02 compatible, and further modular possibilities 

Ok, I stop dreaming!  I love A02 as is, not playing video games on it

*** I wouldn’t mind*** A03 with N6iii mentioned above and Dual AK4499EQ either, but given that AKM is having problems in their factory, toss me ES9038Pro 2X 😺 (call it E-Pro)....yeah, still dreaming


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> Why USB out ? You meant streaming ?  If you are using USB out and streaming, why not IPhone 12 Pro  ?



Exactly my thought, but I'll suggest a decent Android phone instead of iPhone.   iPhone has locked the USB Audio output, you need to add a camera adapter or something like that otherwise you won't receive any digital audio bitstream.  Android is a lot more  audiophile-friendly relatively.


----------



## Andykong

Frankie D said:


> I would say not necessarily.  Considering a DAC is essentially a single chip today (I am sure it could be more, but my point is the DAC is tiny) it des not use much power.  So it is easy to put both together and receive an improvement in sound quality as a tethering cable is now removed from the equation.
> 
> This debate even goes on in 2 channel audio in DAC only kit.  Berkeley believes in clock, DAC, etc in one chassis while DCS preaches a separate Clock, DAC etc for their TOTL  Vivaldi.
> 
> Personally, I think it can be done I await the N8 successor which will hopefully improve on the N8 dac while incorporating all of the C9.  Hopefully not a dream.





Frankie D said:


> If it was easy everyone would do it, the “hard” is what makes it special.   Sorry, just had to throw that in!  I do realize there will certainly be a high degree of difficulty.  I just hope it is possible as I would rather not have multiple C9 sized units.  It will be interesting to see what Cayin does this year.  Tks.



As usual, I can't discuss features or timing of new products, but we can touch base on this one.  

We have a lot of new products schedule for 2021 launch because there are several new products originally scheduled for 2020, but we need to delay them to 2021 for obvious reason.  

Unfortunately, adding DAC to C9 is not on the list.  In fact, it is not even on the current R&D list.   It is not related to degree of difficulty, its a decision based on our market segment and positioning strategy.   We have discussed this topic thoroughly when we formulate C9 and rejected this option.  We have explained our process in the opening post of C9:


> _The N8 DAP marked our milestone in Personal Audio and laid down the foundation for a flagship portable headphone amplifier. The 2018 N8 was Cayin’s first cost-no-objective product in Personal Audio, but that does not mean we can ignore the scientific (physic and electronic engineering) constraints, so by the end of the N8 R&D, we pondered: what if we can find a way to relax the physical constraints? What if when we have more space, more battery power, more room for heat dispersion, …., we know we need to apply the law of subtraction and take away some features in order to stay focused. There were several ideas on the table: C8, C8DAC, ….etc, eventually we started off with C8 and today we delivered the C9._


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Nostoi said:


> Another pic of the two-tier rack:


I love this rack.  Great job.    I was thinking yesterday that I actually need a case for my IEMs.   My son and I were talking about hotwheels which I used to collect as a kid.   What we need is a hotwheels like case for IEMs.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Whitigir said:


> If you want to move it around with that exact stack, you will need to have some meaning to attach and a fix them on to the shelves , like Velcro and so on.  Otherwise, it will slip away if you attempt to carry it just from room to room ?  If you have to use something like that then just stacking one on top another using picture hangers and carry away.  You can even walk the dog and around the park if you wanted to
> Also, if you attempt to transport that shelves stacks from work to homes, you will need to take them apart, plugging and unplugging ...etc...unless using Velcro again.  But if that is the way you preferred .  It look good though
> 
> I am also trying to find some meanings to better carrying the C9 around with me


It doesn't matter how good that sounds.  There is no way I am walking around with that set up.


----------



## Andykong (Feb 26, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> The improvement with certain IEMs I have tried is really, well, at a ridiculous level. I have the hypothesis that C9 is going to benefit mid-tier IEMs more so than with TOTL IEMs, and perhaps this is the case for headphones as well.
> 
> I think C9 opens up my interest to explore a lot more mid-tier IEMs in the future, just to see how much they can approach TOTL ones when driven to their full potentials.



I agree with that wholeheartedly.  

I have also spend a lot of time to revisit some of the "older" IEM.    Right now I am listening to my Ocharaku (音茶楽) Flat4-Akazakura Plus (緋櫻Plus) which I acquired back in 2016, it was priced at around ¥100K JPY so probably a mid-tier by today's standard.  I am a big fan of this boutique brand but I don't have any DAP to handle it correctly because the two isobaric 10mm dynamic drivers drain too much current from its 3.5mm connection, the C9 has resurrected this IEM completely.


----------



## zen87192

Andykong said:


> As usual, I can't discuss features or timing of new products, but we can touch base on this one.
> 
> We have a lot of new products schedule for 2021 launch because there are several new products originally scheduled for 2020, but we need to delay them to 2021 for obvious reason.
> 
> Unfortunately, adding DAC to C9 is not on the list.  In fact, it is not even on the current R&D list.   It is not related to degree of difficulty, its a decision based on our market segment and positioning strategy.   We have discussed this topic thoroughly when we formulate C9 and rejected this option.  We have explained our process in the opening post of C9:


Hi Andy,
Are you going to make any more A02 modules?
They're sold out around the world......


----------



## Whitigir

zen87192 said:


> Hi Andy,
> Are you going to make any more A02 modules?
> They're sold out around the world......


Time to get your alternative, Cayin N8.  Don’t wait til it is sold out , still using AK4497EQ 2X


----------



## eskamobob1

Whitigir said:


> Time to get your alternative, Cayin N8.  Don’t wait til it is sold out , still using AK4497EQ 2X



If we are talking 3k+ there are a ton of options. Sp2K, P6P, and H2 being the most notable


----------



## Andykong

brannigan said:


> Cayin says that they expect amps to last for 10 years at least. What’s the process when the korg nutube busts up in a few years. I read that they have a 30k hour time to failure.



Let me quote my statement (*HERE*) again:
From commercial point of view, we don't expect to sell the C9 at the same volume as our N6ii or N8 DAP (per year), but the C9 can last for 8-10 years while DAP only last for 1 year to 1.5 years. This will justify the resource required to develop and produce C9.

Clearly you have misunderstand what I said.  Cayin expect to SELL Co for 8-10 years, that's why we can justify the R&D resource to develop this product.  We didn't make any claim that each and every C9 will operate 10 years.  It might last that long, or it might not, this is depends on the usage and care taking during operation. 

The Nutube can last 30K hours.  The fact is, some of the electronic components will start to age after 10K hours, and by the time you reached 30K hours, the Nutube is probably not the only components that you need to worry about.   C9 is not unique in this accord, quite a lot of high-end amplifier will also run into aging problem at similar or shorter timeframe.




kion said:


> Are the tubes replaceable by the user? or serviceable by sending them back to Cayin?





kion said:


> That would be interesting, I like the idea of rolling mini tubes!
> 
> With a 30k-hour lifespan, the likelihood of it failing after the warranty (2 yrs?) is probably small but not negligible. I'd be more than happy to pay Cayin to replace the tubes though, not that it will happen, but it would be good to have some peace of mind before buying.
> 
> Hopefully Cayin can clarify.



Yes, you can send your C9 back to Cayin for repair.  

Cayin has a big advantage over other brands in this area.  We built our product in-house, we didn't outsource our manufacturing process.  The Cayin headquarter is a four-story purposely build manufacturing facilities with 140+ full-time staff.   Production is one of our core-competence, so we can support our products over a very long period.  We have provide maintenance service to tube amplifier after 10, 15  years of operation, and we have replace lithium battery for the original N6 after 5 years of operation,  I think we have pretty good track record on repair and support service.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 26, 2021)

eskamobob1 said:


> If we are talking 3k+ there are a ton of options. Sp2K, P6P, and H2 being the most notable


I was half joking, what makes the A02 special can’t not be found in even the N8.  
That is why I love C9!! Whatever the DAP is, can always benefit from C9

Oh by the way, here is the C8


----------



## eskamobob1

Whitigir said:


> I was half joking, what makes the A02 special can’t not be found in even the N8



haha. fair. I thought maybe the N8 had a good true LO seeing as Ive never realy looked into it


----------



## aaf evo

Can’t wait for musicteck to get more in stock. Really looking forward to trying this out.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 26, 2021)

eskamobob1 said:


> haha. fair. I thought maybe the N8 had a good true LO seeing as Ive never realy looked into it


It does, but the A02 offers more , take shielding for one example.  The A02 has multiple Chassis housing.  One is for the Main SOC and the modular chassis that separates the processing away from the analog converters...etc.  Then Low Pass filter and DsD Filters options.


aaf evo said:


> Can’t wait for musicteck to get more in stock. Really looking forward to trying this out.


Waiting for the C9 ?


----------



## DaYooper

zen87192 said:


> Hi Andy,
> Are you going to make any more A02 modules?
> They're sold out around the world......


Just so you know, if Cayin were to need consumer votes to decide to restart production on A02, I vote yes, please do. I would probably purchase my third N6ii in order to get/have one.


----------



## aaf evo

Whitigir said:


> It does, but the A02 offers more , take shielding for one example.  The A02 has multiple Chassis housing.  One is for the Main SOC and the modular chassis that separates the processing away from the analog converters...etc.  Then Low Pass filter and DsD Filters options.
> 
> Waiting for the C9 ?



yes, musicteck should have more stock next month.


----------



## Andykong

zen87192 said:


> Hi Andy,
> Are you going to make any more A02 modules?
> They're sold out around the world......



Nope, we have make it clear that we only make 1 production batch of A02 when we announce the Audio Motherboard (*HERE*):  


> In view of specialized features, the A02 aims at a very niche market and we'll only commit one production batch of 500 units. The suggested retail price of A02 is US$419 and available by mid-October 2020.



Given the shortage of AKM DAC chipset worldwide, we can't make another production batch even when there is a demand.


----------



## Whitigir

Andykong said:


> Nope, we have make it clear that we only make 1 production batch of A02 when we announce the Audio Motherboard (*HERE*):
> 
> 
> Given the shortage of AKM DAC chipset worldwide, we can't make another production batch even when there is a demand.


*Make us the E-Pro *
Dual ES9038Pro for Line out....no need preamp...just all out in Power supplying the ES9038, LPF and discrete components

The Demand for a true line out and dedicated line out will be blowing up your headquarter roof, trust me


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> The improvement with certain IEMs I have tried is really, well, at a ridiculous level. I have the hypothesis that C9 is going to benefit mid-tier IEMs more so than with TOTL IEMs, and perhaps this is the case for headphones as well.
> 
> I think C9 opens up my interest to explore a lot more mid-tier IEMs in the future, just to see how much they can approach TOTL ones when driven to their full potentials.


Interesting.  What do you consider mid tier?

Sony IER-Z1R
UM Mest
Thieaudio Monarch and Clairvoyance
Moondrop S8

How would high quality lower tier IEMs do?

Moon drop Blessing 2 Dusk
UM 3DT


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 26, 2021)

These cooling heat sinks are so nice to have! I have another pair on top for better dissipation as well.  Beside, it helps gripping the C9 with more security.  These 4 spots are where most of the heat are being generated and dissipating away.  So these little heat sinks are perfect fit as well


----------



## Whitigir

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Interesting.  What do you consider mid tier?
> 
> Sony IER-Z1R
> UM Mest
> ...


I think if I take his statement, then IER Z1R will be Mid-Tier.  Because these little guys literally has transformed themselves into the minds that I have never heard before....I am addicted


----------



## kion

Andykong said:


> Yes, you can send your C9 back to Cayin for repair.
> 
> Cayin has a big advantage over other brands in this area. We built our product in-house, we didn't outsource our manufacturing process. The Cayin headquarter is a four-story purposely build manufacturing facilities with 140+ full-time staff. Production is one of our core-competence, so we can support our products over a very long period. We have provide maintenance service to tube amplifier after 10, 15 years of operation, and we have replace lithium battery for the original N6 after 5 years of operation, I think we have pretty good track record on repair and support service.


That's reassuring - thank you.


----------



## Bosk

Whitigir said:


> If you want to move it around with that exact stack, you will need to have some meaning to attach and a fix them on to the shelves , like Velcro and so on.  Otherwise, it will slip away if you attempt to carry it just from room to room ?  If you have to use something like that then just stacking one on top another using picture hangers and carry away.  You can even walk the dog and around the park if you wanted to
> Also, if you attempt to transport that shelves stacks from work to homes, you will need to take them apart, plugging and unplugging ...etc...unless using Velcro again.  But if that is the way you preferred .  It look good though
> 
> I am also trying to find some meanings to better carrying the C9 around with me


Not sure I'd be brave enough to carry a rig like that through airport security, certainly not while chanting religious messages.


----------



## eskamobob1

Bosk said:


> Not sure I'd be brave enough to carry a rig like that through airport security, certainly not while chanting religious messages.



Just make sure you have 1266s on and you will be fine


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Feb 26, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Interesting.  What do you consider mid tier?
> 
> Sony IER-Z1R
> UM Mest
> ...


In my own purchase, a mid-tier IEM is around $300-1200. Like Dunu Zen or UM 3DT. MEST might be a mid-tier based on money but, as many reviewers have said, it significantly outperforms many more expensive gear.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 26, 2021)

Oh man, I love these heat sinks too!!! Only take 4 of them at these spots.  The C9 don’t even heat up as much anymore.  Usually after 3 hours it would be very warm to the touch and a bit scary with class A and tubes.  Now I have no problem at all as it is only slightly warm.  Especially toward the bottom of the unit where the batteries are, it is only very slightly warm and not warm warm as previously.

This is sitting atop the desk with open air

going everywhere with it


----------



## bigbeans

Purchased C9 based on @Whitigir comments. He has great taste as can be expected, my gear has never sounded so good. I'm using Hiby R8 with Cayin C9, but I am unsure whether stacking them will cause damage or overheat each other. Is it ok to stack DAP on top of it, I noticed when running C9 in AB mode with Tube it gets warm (without stacking yet). Any advice appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## bluestorm1992

bigbeans said:


> Purchased C9 based on @Whitigir comments. He has great taste as can be expected, my gear has never sounded so good. I'm using Hiby R8 with Cayin C9, but I am unsure whether stacking them will cause damage or overheat each other. Is it ok to stack DAP on top of it, I noticed when running C9 in AB mode with Tube it gets warm (without stacking yet). Any advice appreciated. Thanks.


I usually just stack my N6ii right on top of C9. No issue so far.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 26, 2021)

bigbeans said:


> Purchased C9 based on @Whitigir comments. He has great taste as can be expected, my gear has never sounded so good. I'm using Hiby R8 with Cayin C9, but I am unsure whether stacking them will cause damage or overheat each other. Is it ok to stack DAP on top of it, I noticed when running C9 in AB mode with Tube it gets warm (without stacking yet). Any advice appreciated. Thanks.


Congratulations! Welcome to the club!! Buy the picture hanger and stick the DAP with leather case to the back and buy some cooling fins for the sides and top 
Very easy to stick on and pull off!!
https://www.amazon.com/Command-Pict...383477275&psc=1&ref=&adgrpid=90730998621&th=1


----------



## bigbeans (Feb 26, 2021)

Ah ha! Thank you for the advice, much appreciated. Good to know it can be used upside down as well as stacked on top (with glass facing up). Heatsinks give the C9 a 'gamer' appearance, I will give that a try. Thanks.

EDIT: @Andykong When can we expect the DAP+Van Nuys case


----------



## Whitigir

bigbeans said:


> Ah ha! Thank you for the advice, much appreciated. Good to know it can be used upside down as well as stacked on top (with glass facing up). Heatsinks give the C9 a 'gamer' appearance, I will give that a try. Thanks.


You can find these stuff at walgreen, Walmart, drugmart...they are everywhere.  I see Amazon buyers mentioned that Amazon may have bad stuff ? I got mine from Drugmart, and it works very well.  So I recommend going to your local store for those

The heat sinks are amazing with the C9. I am very happy with them


----------



## bigbeans

Whitigir said:


> You can find these stuff at walgreen, Walmart, drugmart...they are everywhere.  I see Amazon buyers mentioned that Amazon may have bad stuff ? I got mine from Drugmart, and it works very well.  So I recommend going to your local store for those
> 
> The heat sinks are amazing with the C9. I am very happy with them



So I use these picture strips to attach DAP onto the backside of C9. So the DAP screen lays flat on table. Then I apply the heatsinks onto the sides and top of C9.

Interesting, ok thank you!


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 26, 2021)

bigbeans said:


> So I use these picture strips to attach DAP onto the backside of C9. So the DAP screen lays flat on table. Then I apply the heatsinks onto the sides and top of C9.
> 
> Interesting, ok thank you!


That is exactly what I do , with the leather case to protect the dap in the back, you can lay the dap downward and have the leather case used as stands and the screen wouldn’t be laying onto any things at all.  Then you can cool the C9 and look at the tubes glows.  When you want to browse around, just flip it.

Of course these stickers are reusable too, pull them off and then press again to fit them on.


----------



## bigbeans

Whitigir said:


> That is exactly what I do , with the leather case to protect the dap in the back, you can lay the dap downward and have the leather case used as stands and the screen wouldn’t be laying onto any things at all.  Then you can cool the C9 and look at the tubes glows.  When you want to browse around, just flip it.
> 
> Of course these stickers are reusable too, pull them off and then press again to fit them on.


Hold on @Whitigir do I see that correctly? Is that a qdc Dragon Skin cable? What IEM do you have that connected to if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## Whitigir

bigbeans said:


> Hold on @Whitigir do I see that correctly? Is that a qdc Dragon Skin cable? What IEM do you have that connected to if you don't mind me asking?


It is actually FiiO LC-RE cables  and is with my IER-Z1R


----------



## bluestorm1992

Not directly related to C9: N6ii’s official new leather case just arrived. Matches quite well with C9. Hopefully C9’s leather case will be released all .


----------



## twister6

Here you go, just finished my next novel... I mean, C9 review is done!  Lots of design details and pair up (IEMs/headphones/DAPs) examples.  Enjoy the read!


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

twister6 said:


> Here you go, just finished my next novel... I mean, C9 review is done!  Lots of design details and pair up (IEMs/headphones/DAPs) examples.  Enjoy the read!


Nice review.   The part I found the most useful was the various pairings.  thank you!


----------



## bigbeans

IER M9, balanced, AB, Tube mode is a top class combination. C9 is a great fit with these power hungry iems. 

@twister6 was right, Odin is a disappointing combination with C9.


----------



## IgeNeLL

bigbeans said:


> IER M9, balanced, AB, Tube mode is a top class combination. C9 is a great fit with these power hungry iems.
> 
> @twister6 was right, Odin is a disappointing combination with C9.


What wrong?


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 27, 2021)

IgeNeLL said:


> What wrong?


He said it was hissing with C9+N8 ? I am not surprised, since the amplifier does the amplifications, so if the source has any hissing at all, it would be also amplified as well.
Did Odin hiss alone with C9 without plugging in any source ? Was there any differences between Class A/AB ? SS/Tubes ?

Oh well, back to my new found addictions A02+C9+Z1R | HD800S


----------



## bigbeans

DAP Hiby R8
Odin + Hiby R8 (low gain, 3.5mm) = low hiss, very hard to hear
Moving beyond this setting (into medium and high gain) makes hiss distracting for me. Forget 4.4mm balanced haha

Cayin C9
On C9, I tested with only Class AB mode, LO gain (Tube and Solid State timbre). As my Odin is custom terminated in 3.5mm Furutech, I can't use balanced mode. In 3.5mm on C9 I can actually hear the volume potentiometer feedback and hiss is indeed audible and distracting. 

Using Odin out of my source (R8, 3.5mm, lo gain) is the only way I can use it. I'm trying to decide if I should make the jump to Oriolus Trailli given hiss issues on other IEMs. It's hard to justify a purchase right now as my IEM collection is fairly large at this point (IER M9, Odin, DUNU Luna and LCDi4).


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 27, 2021)

bigbeans said:


> DAP Hiby R8
> Odin + Hiby R8 (low gain, 3.5mm) = low hiss, very hard to hear
> Moving beyond this setting (into medium and high gain) makes hiss distracting for me. Forget 4.4mm balanced haha
> 
> ...


Odin is too high-end for the little peasant C9....king can’t walk side by side with a peasant 

that was a joke btw

Did you find Luna hissing as well ?


----------



## bigbeans (Feb 27, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> Odin is too high-end for the little peasant C9....king can’t walk side by side with a peasant
> 
> that was a joke btw



Haha! Actually because C9 is so versatile with headphones, I'm considering getting a desktop DAC like SMSL SU9 and hooking it to the Cayin C9 as my desktop amp. C9 stack can potentially serve dual purpose.

Edit: Regarding Luna, haven't tried that yet, will update with these findings tomorrow.


----------



## bigbeans (Feb 27, 2021)

Aight @Whitigir I have IEMs strewn all over my desk, I blame you lol

DUNU Luna is similar situation to Odin, I can hear the potentiometer feedback through the volume increase. However the background noise isn't as bad as Odin, but still...distracting for me. @twister6 is bang on the money

tldr: Use your source for Odin/Luna. Don't bother with C9 on these IEMs if you're sensitive to hiss like me.


----------



## bluestorm1992

bigbeans said:


> Haha! Actually because C9 is so versatile with headphones, I'm considering getting a desktop DAC like SMSL SU9 and hooking it to the Cayin C9 as my desktop amp. C9 stack can potentially serve dual purpose.
> 
> Edit: Regarding Luna, haven't tried that yet, will update with these findings tomorrow.


Desktop DAC will give very good results with C9. I posted some pages back that pairing a Burson Composer 3XP DAC gives a nice result with C9.


----------



## jmills8

bigbeans said:


> DAP Hiby R8
> Odin + Hiby R8 (low gain, 3.5mm) = low hiss, very hard to hear
> Moving beyond this setting (into medium and high gain) makes hiss distracting for me. Forget 4.4mm balanced haha
> 
> ...


Iems fault , dynamic drivers are better.


----------



## jmills8

bigbeans said:


> Aight @Whitigir I have IEMs strewn all over my desk, I blame you lol
> 
> DUNU Luna is similar situation to Odin, I can hear the potentiometer feedback through the volume increase. However the background noise isn't as bad as Odin, but still...distracting for me. @twister6 is bang on the money
> 
> tldr: Use your source for Odin/Luna. Don't bother with C9 on these IEMs if you're sensitive to hiss like me.


Yes , less power needed on hearing aid intended drivers.


----------



## Whitigir

The strange thing is Luna is a single DD isn’t it ? Only that it has 113db sensitivity


----------



## IgeNeLL

Whitigir said:


> He said it was hissing with C9+N8 ? I am not surprised, since the amplifier does the amplifications, so if the source has any hissing at all, it would be also amplified as well.
> Did Odin hiss alone with C9 without plugging in any source ? Was there any differences between Class A/AB ? SS/Tubes ?
> 
> Oh well, back to my new found addictions A02+C9+Z1R | HD800S


It is strange. The electrostatic tweeter with a proper design is immuned to hiss.
Does Odin + C9 meet hiss problem with other DAP?
If yes then the problem might be in C9 only.
If no then the problem is N8. And it will be the problem of noise not hiss.
Why constant noise and induce when connect N8 to C9? It is hard to answer.


----------



## Andykong

bluestorm1992 said:


> @surfgeorge I try to answer your question here:
> 
> 
> I think you are right that the Amp does not add anything to the signal - it however adjusts the signals in certain way, either amplifies it or modifies it. That’s why in the text I say it “delivers” the signature of the music.
> ...



Amp does not add anything to the signal?  To be honest, I only see this in textbook, and if this is the basic criteria to select an amplifier, please avoid vacuum tube, it just contradict to this ideal amplifier assumption.

Regarding the proportion of sound signature between line input mode vs pre-amp input mode, I use similar explanation in many occasions, but if we have to go into detail, the question I want to ask is, maybe that's because we don't know the sound signature of the Line Out of your DAP previously.  Most users will be familiar with the phone output of their DAP because (1) they listen to the phone out most of the time (90%?); (2)  they tried the phone output with different earphone/headphones combinations, so they have accumulated numerous impression and developed an thorough understanding on sound signature of phone out, our understanding of the line out sound signature is only preliminary.


----------



## Andykong (Feb 27, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> No, C9 is not only here to show the people that they need to stack it up to benefits.  Even though stacking up will benefit for sure.
> 
> My idea is that “is it worth it to stack up” ? _It has never been “worth it”_ _previously_ IME, and there are more than just Oriolus , BX2, there are many more portable amplifier available and had been for a while.
> 
> ...



Your rave review and support to C9 design flatters us, we appreciate sincerely.

Just one soft reminder.  The power supply of C9 is described as ± 8.4V, that is equivalent to 16.8V if we want to compare with the 3.7V based lithium battery used in DAP such as N8 or N6ii.

I received a lot of request/suggestion: if C9 is so good, why can't you include all the technologies and features of C9 and make it N8ii.  C9 is not about new technologies, its about refinement and implementation. Dual Timbre, Dual Operation Mode, fully discrete circuit and even Dual input mode can nowhere claim as new technologies because we have been using these in our DAPs and desktop amplifier already. Its easy enough to introduce all these into our DAP products down the road, but that is not C9-equivalent, and to start with, building a DAP with 16.8V power supply will introduce a lot of difficulties at both charging and power management already.


----------



## Andykong

bluestorm1992 said:


> Thanks for confirming how the C9 stack compares with other (standalone) TOTL DAPs!
> 
> Also, it will be great if Cayin will release N7ii soon and can still have A02 work with it, but so far no report of this...



From N6ii to N7ii, without going through N7?  Your product coding system is very interesting.


----------



## Andykong

bluestorm1992 said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is something we want to tell our DAP customers long time ago, but general consumers are more sensitive with DAC chipset, bit and highest sampling frequency, more technical mind customers will talk about DR/SNR of the chipset, but at the end of the day, its the analogue circuit (and power supply system) that makes the biggest difference.  At least that's what we have experienced in our long history of HiFi product development.


----------



## xand

Andykong said:


> C9 is not about new technologies, its about refinement and implementation. Dual Timbre, Dual Operation Mode, fully discrete circuit and even Dual input mode can nowhere claim as new technologies.



Unless you rake a leaf from Apple...


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 27, 2021)

Andykong said:


> This is something we want to tell our DAP customers long time ago, but general consumers are more sensitive with DAC chipset, bit and highest sampling frequency, more technical mind customers will talk about DR/SNR of the chipset, but at the end of the day, its the analogue circuit (and power supply system) that makes the biggest difference.  At least that's what we have experienced in our long history of HiFi product development.


Completely agreed, it is all about the analog signals.  One more vote from me and my experiences from years of tinkering.  The most important thing is Power supply and Power distributions


----------



## Kiats

Andykong said:


> Your rave review and support to C9 design flatters us, we appreciate sincerely.
> 
> Just one soft reminder.  The power supply of C9 is described as ± 8.4V, that is equivalent to 16.8V if we want to compare with the 3.7V based lithium battery used in DAP such as N8 or N6ii.
> 
> I received a lot of request/suggestion: if C9 is so good, why can't you include all the technologies and features of C9 and make it N8ii.  C9 is not about new technologies, its about refinement and implementation. Dual Timbre, Dual Operation Mode, fully discrete circuit and even Dual input mode can nowhere claim as new technologies, its easy enough to introduce all these into our DAP products down the road, but that is not C9-equivalent, and to start with, building a DAP with 16.8V power supply will introduce a lot of difficulties at both charging and power management already.


Well said, @Andykong. As with most things audio, it’s about the refinement and implementation: how to do it better.


----------



## twister6

Just curios, are we talking about C9 + EE Odin because people want to color the sound? Obviously, you need very little power to drive these. And even in my other reviews, like R8, I mentioned you better off turning Turbo off and switching from bal to se with Odin.

I will try later iematch and let everyone know. But aside from that, there are many other iems that pair up great with C9. It is hard to cover everything in one review, thus I picked examples to give you a balanced view of C9 performance. Also, encourage more people to share their iem pair up impressions with C9, seems there are more focus on headphone pair ups


----------



## bluestorm1992

twister6 said:


> Just curios, are we talking about C9 + EE Odin because people want to color the sound? Obviously, you need very little power to drive these. And even in my other reviews, like R8, I mentioned you better off turning Turbo off and switching from bal to se with Odin.
> 
> I will try later iematch and let everyone know. But aside from that, there are many other iems that pair up great with C9. It is hard to cover everything in one review, thus I picked examples to give you a balanced view of C9 performance. Also, encourage more people to share their iem pair up impressions with C9, seems there are more focus on headphone pair ups


This is the fun part of C9 - it gathers IEM people and headphone people in one thread.   It also opens up the door for the two groups of people to explore a different category (sorry for your wallet).


----------



## Andykong

bluestorm1992 said:


> This is the fun part of C9 - it gathers IEM people and headphone people in one thread.   It also opens up the door for the two groups of people to explore a different category (sorry for your wallet).


 ..... and it gathered all DAP brands into one thread.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Andykong said:


> ..... and it gathered all DAP brands into one thread.


Oh haha yes! How could I forget to mention that. There will also be accessories discussion that involve cable brands for interconnects and brands like LG and Panasonic for batteries.  

I am actually getting two interconnects from Eletech soon. Want to see if they do anything more than aesthetic usages.


----------



## Whitigir

I am in love very much here!!! With the IER-Z1R, I get the soundstage, dynamic, imagings, isolations when needed, out of this stack
I have never enjoyed my IER-Z1R as much as I do now.  I have had it for almost 2 years, and all it had been was just collecting dusts or used for reviews here and there

Now I truly can enjoy it


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 27, 2021)

Also, I have some people asked me about why I said that the C9 has the ability to expose the Source Line out, whether it is True line out or pseudo and so on ?

So, a disclaimer first, I am not an expert, just have been experiencing with stuff here and there.  I am always learning as each day going by btw, and my wallet always disagree with my ambition

True line out player and devices in my opinions are providing a much better : Imagings and Soundstages, where as Pseudo line out usually has smeared and confused imagings, there are also distortions at complex passages.  That is what the C9 is performing from various DAPs IME

So, from @Andykong explanations, I was able to learn that “Double amping” even at the littlest and nuanced level, it will still effect the performances, and hence he called it Pseudo-Line out.

There are more into Line Out and why it is so important that I recommended A02 and C9. I will post along as I keep posting here, but the one thing for sure is that the C9 is Cheaper than a lot of the so called “high-end” cables, but it will be the most important piece in anyone who loves portable audio. At least out of all of my experiences, *the C9 is the must, and should be the first serious piece to get if you are serious about Portable audio.*

I also think that when it comes to IEMS, there are too much variations, so as Alex stated it out, you should really demo the C9 to hear the “hisses” and see if the C9 will benefit it ?

I have always thought to myself that “iems that hisses” should be avoided, doesn’t matter if people keep saying that it is “too sensitive”.  The way I see it is that

A/ if it isn’t from big brands who have had decades of experiences and hisses ? Then it is a No go, except if they are from Sony or Sennheiser

B/ if an equipment only has 1 iems that hisses with it while beautifully playing with the other 10, then I will eliminate the 1 that hisses

*So, I will still recommend the C9 as the priority pieces and then you build the rest of your chain around it, starting next is the IEMS and then source .*


----------



## michaelc

Whitigir said:


> I am in love very much here!!! With the IER-Z1R, I get the soundstage, dynamic, imagings, isolations when needed, out of this stack
> I have never enjoyed my IER-Z1R as much as I do now.  I have had it for almost 2 years, and all it had been was just collecting dusts or used for reviews here and there
> 
> Now I truly can enjoy it



So you enjoy this setup more than DMP-Z1?


----------



## LabelH

I remember some people use copper coin for absorb laptop heat. Maybe someone can give it a try to C9. The only copper I have is SP2K which only add heat into heat 



source: https://twitter.com/youichi_itou/status/1310438398264446976?s=20


----------



## IgeNeLL

Whitigir said:


> I am in love very much here!!! With the IER-Z1R, I get the soundstage, dynamic, imagings, isolations when needed, out of this stack
> I have never enjoyed my IER-Z1R as much as I do now.  I have had it for almost 2 years, and all it had been was just collecting dusts or used for reviews here and there
> 
> Now I truly can enjoy it


Thís eartip is terrible !!!!!!


----------



## Whitigir

michaelc said:


> So you enjoy this setup more than DMP-Z1?


The biggest downfalls of DMP Z1 and Z1R is that I don’t listen to Z1R too loud...and the channel imbalances is a killer at such low level volumes....it deforms the staging and imaging IMO.  Unless I cranked it up so loud, but at that level, I use HD800S


----------



## Whitigir

IgeNeLL said:


> Thís eartip is terrible !!!!!!


Xelatecs has a terrible attraction to dusts.  Doesn’t matter how much you clean the ears, unless you clean it on the audiologist level of flushing twice a day LOL!!!!


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 27, 2021)

LabelH said:


> I remember some people use copper coin for absorb laptop heat. Maybe someone can give it a try to C9. The only copper I have is SP2K which only add heat into heat
> 
> source: https://twitter.com/youichi_itou/status/1310438398264446976?s=20


If this is a joke ? I will leave it there

If it isn’t a joke, these cooling and heat sinks are 99.9% coppers with graphemes coatings.  Only take 4 to considerably lowered the generated heats from Class A-tubes, the most demanding mode from C9

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B08HJ6JMLG?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title


----------



## michaelc (Feb 27, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> The biggest downfalls of DMP Z1 and Z1R is that I don’t listen to Z1R too loud...and the channel imbalances is a killer at such low level volumes....it deforms the staging and imaging IMO.  Unless I cranked it up so loud, but at that level, I use HD800S


Agree.
I find Hugo2(H2) push Z1r well when I push the volume to > green colour with SPDIF converter in btw my laptop. I adjust my laptop output volume, increase H2 volume to get the stunning imaging and sound staging.

I'm deaf if I use that volume level with my DAP to H2.

Glad to hear that thr C9 can do it even in low volume.


----------



## RTodd

Whitigir said:


> If this is a joke ? I will leave it there
> 
> If it isn’t a joke, these cooling and heat sinks are 99.9% coppers with graphemes coatings.  Only take 4 to considerably lowered the generated heats from Class A-tubes, the most demanding mode from C9
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B08HJ6JMLG?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title


How hot does the C9 get over 105F?


----------



## Whitigir

RTodd said:


> How hot does the C9 get over 105F?


Never took a temp on the C9, but it gets as hot as that you don’t want to hold it in your hands after 3 hours of class A/Korg mode.  It is fine with the heat sinks


----------



## Andykong

KickAssChewGum said:


> I’m the same! @Andykong where can we get extra battery packs (ie charging tray and batteries)? Also I heard they may be a case coming. Is this true and, if so, where will we be able to buy it from. Thanks! (Typed whilst listening to my C9. I love this amp SO much!)



 Pretty soon, stay tuned.  We have promised battery tray as optional accessories when we launch C9, we'll try our best to deliver ASAP.


----------



## TheNameIsGerald

Whitigir said:


> These cooling heat sinks are so nice to have! I have another pair on top for better dissipation as well.  Beside, it helps gripping the C9 with more security.  These 4 spots are where most of the heat are being generated and dissipating away.  So these little heat sinks are perfect fit as well


this is starting to look like a cyborg insect 🐜


----------



## red12391 (Feb 27, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> 내가 개입 할 수있는 권한 Traillii와 C9의 멋진 사진을 찍고 싶을뿐입니다.





bluestorm1992 said:


> 내가 개입 할 수 있다면 Traillii와 C9의 멋진 사진을 찍고 싶을뿐입니다.


Traillii에 사용하는 이어팁은 어떤 제품입니까?


----------



## Andykong

eskamobob1 said:


> Be careful cooling too far. You can significantly decrease component life. Before modding the cooling on yours you should probabaly reach out to cayin and find out the optimal opporating temperature. The heat very well may be by design



I try to clarify.   

The C9 aluminum chassis is part of the heat management equation, it is designed to work as heatsink,  and we have advised our users to use C9 at a well-ventilated area (in the user manual).  Therefore adding more heatsink to a heatsink should never cause "cooling too far" effect.  This will merely increase the efficiency of the heatsink.


----------



## bluestorm1992

red12391 said:


> Traillii에 사용하는 이어팁은 어떤 제품입니까?


AZLA SednaEarfitLight


----------



## red12391

bluestorm1992 said:


> AZLA SednaEarfitLight


Thank you. I'm Korean, but I didn't know it was a Korean product.


----------



## Andykong (Feb 27, 2021)

bigbeans said:


> Haha! Actually because C9 is so versatile with headphones, I'm considering getting a desktop DAC like SMSL SU9 and hooking it to the Cayin C9 as my desktop amp. C9 stack can potentially serve dual purpose.
> 
> Edit: Regarding Luna, haven't tried that yet, will update with these findings tomorrow.



May I suggest you consider a DAC with a "real" pre-amp built-in?  That will allow you to use C9 in both line input and Pre-amp input mode. 

If the DAC has a tube buffer, offering dual timbre to its line out and pre-amp output, that would be even better.


----------



## eskamobob1

Andykong said:


> I try to clarify.
> 
> The C9 aluminum chassis is part of the heat management equation, it is designed to work as heatsink,  and we have advised our users to use C9 at a well-ventilated area (in the user manual).  Therefore adding more heatsink to a heatsink should never cause "cooling too far" effect.  This will merely increase the efficiency of the heatsink.



Good to know! My audio sourc experience is still lacking but I know over cooling is a major issue in product life with industrial inverters so I figured we should as you!


----------



## Whitigir

Andykong said:


> May I suggest you consider a DAC with a "real" pre-amp built-in?  That will allow you to use C9 in both line input and Pre-amp input mode.
> 
> If the DAC has a tube buffer, offering dual timbre to its line out and pre-amp output, that would be even better.


I want the tube timbres choices from a portable devices  for sure, from a Line out source


----------



## Andykong

bigbeans said:


> Ah ha! Thank you for the advice, much appreciated. Good to know it can be used upside down as well as stacked on top (with glass facing up). Heatsinks give the C9 a 'gamer' appearance, I will give that a try. Thanks.
> 
> EDIT: @Andykong When can we expect the DAP+Van Nuys case



I have no idea at all, I talked to Tada san of Vannuys and send him a C9 mockup for feasibility study, I am waiting for good news but I guess that'll take a while.


----------



## bigbeans

@Andykong Interesting, didn't see this before.


Andykong said:


> May I suggest you consider a DAC with a "real" pre-amp built-in?  That will allow you to use C9 in both line input and Pre-amp input mode.
> 
> If the DAC has a tube buffer, offering dual timbre to its line out and pre-amp output, that would be even better.



I see what you did there, recc'ing a Cayin product for my Cayin product  Interesting, this DAC has tubes! Thanks for the heads up.

What's the advantage of using both line input and pre amp input modes?


----------



## xand (Feb 27, 2021)

Oh.. I think i should show here, my Utopia vs CIEM carrying solutions lol.

The Utopia case is really a little overkill but... Well.


----------



## bigbeans

xand said:


> Oh.. I think i should show here, my Utopia vs CIEM carrying solutions lol.
> 
> The Utopia case is really a little overkill but... Well.



Is that TWO Cayin C9's??

Edit: I'm an idiot, those are two separate pictures lol


----------



## xand

bigbeans said:


> Is that TWO Cayin C9's??



Eh no it's the same C9 lol.


----------



## Whitigir

TheNameIsGerald said:


> this is starting to look like a cyborg insect 🐜


Giving it some muscular looking , love it !!
Literally walking around with it.

@Andykong , do you happen to know what is the line in buffer input on the C9 ? I am curious.  Also, is the batteries filters staying on the battery tray itself ? Seems that way ?


----------



## Frankie D

Andykong said:


> Your rave review and support to C9 design flatters us, we appreciate sincerely.
> 
> Just one soft reminder.  The power supply of C9 is described as ± 8.4V, that is equivalent to 16.8V if we want to compare with the 3.7V based lithium battery used in DAP such as N8 or N6ii.
> 
> I received a lot of request/suggestion: if C9 is so good, why can't you include all the technologies and features of C9 and make it N8ii.  C9 is not about new technologies, its about refinement and implementation. Dual Timbre, Dual Operation Mode, fully discrete circuit and even Dual input mode can nowhere claim as new technologies, its easy enough to introduce all these into our DAP products down the road, but that is not C9-equivalent, and to start with, building a DAP with 16.8V power supply will introduce a lot of difficulties at both charging and power management already.


Okay, so Cayin will not make an “N9” so to speak. However, will Cayin instead make an all out top Portable Dac to use with the C9?  Tks.


----------



## Andykong

Shawnb said:


> My only concern is how I’m going to lug the Max abs C9 around. Might need to find a custom case I can clip to my belt that’ll fit both. Otherwise am very much looking forward to getting one.



My daily walk-around shoulder bag happen to have a small compartment that can house the C9 perfectly,   I might do some minor mod to make it a C9+DAP carrying bag.


----------



## bigbeans

From what I've read on this post (catching up through the pages), I can assume a C9 can NOT be hooked up to wall power and be used?

Thanks!


----------



## RTodd

Andykong said:


> My daily walk-around shoulder bag happen to have a small compartment that can house the C9 perfectly,   I might do some minor mod to make it a C9+DAP carrying bag.


Need a link to that bag love it.


----------



## xand (Feb 27, 2021)

bigbeans said:


> From what I've read on this post (catching up through the pages), I can assume a C9 can NOT be hooked up to wall power and be used?
> 
> Thanks!



See: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...dphone-amplifier.943135/page-48#post-16152883

But quick answer:

You can charge and playback C9 at the same time before the batteries is fully charged. If you charge and playback at the same time and your charging rate is faster than discharge rate, the 18650 batteries will reach 4.2V eventually.

[However, if you are still playing,] C9 power management cannot enter the constant voltage charge stage, [and will instead] put C9 into protection mode.

You can revoke C9 from protection mode by disconnecting everything and charge it for 10 second.

Personally, because I like Tube/A best, I never charge C9 while playing because the entire thing is so hot, it really can't be good for battery charging - usually Li-ion shouldn't be charged above 45 degrees, and I guarantee that the C9 is above 45 degrees. 

I actually worry whether it's above 60 degrees(!)


----------



## bigbeans

xand said:


> See: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...dphone-amplifier.943135/page-48#post-16152883
> 
> But quick answer:
> 
> ...




Ahhhh thanks so much! This clears it up, Andy was very thorough in this response. Excellent.


----------



## Frankie D

Whitigir said:


> Also, I have some people asked me about why I said that the C9 has the ability to expose the Source Line out, whether it is True line out or pseudo and so on ?
> 
> So, a disclaimer first, I am not an expert, just have been experiencing with stuff here and there.  I am always learning as each day going by btw, and my wallet always disagree with my ambition
> 
> ...


Maybe, maybe not.  An opposing viewpoint could be that the dac and amp should be noise free and that the sensitive IEM/HP are only showing you the noise in your system.

I realize system matching comes into play, but shouldn’t the Luna/Odin have less hiss with the better amp....meaning the C9 should be quieter than the N8?  Or is the issue the N8 output?   Tks.


----------



## bigbeans

Whitigir said:


> If this is a joke ? I will leave it there
> 
> If it isn’t a joke, these cooling and heat sinks are 99.9% coppers with graphemes coatings.  Only take 4 to considerably lowered the generated heats from Class A-tubes, the most demanding mode from C9
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B08HJ6JMLG?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title



Question regarding the picture hanging tape you use to affix DAP and Cayin C9. Is it easy to remove DAP from C9 or is it a 'permanent solution'. Before I buy these picture hanging strips, want to make sure it can do what I need (need to remove DAP a couple of times a day from the stack).

Edit: Just ordered those copper heatsinks, thanks for linking them!


----------



## Whitigir

bigbeans said:


> Question regarding the picture hanging tape you use to affix DAP and Cayin C9. Is it easy to remove DAP from C9 or is it a 'permanent solution'. Before I buy these picture hanging strips, want to make sure it can do what I need (need to remove DAP a couple of times a day from the stack).
> 
> Edit: Just ordered those copper heatsinks, thanks for linking them!


super easy to taken apart like Velcro , push in to attach and pull out with some efforts to separate.  Don’t buy these guys from Amazon, go to your local store


----------



## bigbeans

Whitigir said:


> super easy to taken apart like Velcro , push in to attach and pull out with some efforts to separate.  Don’t buy these guys from Amazon, go to your local store



Cheers, thanks! Will buy at my local Walgreens. Amazon reviews do not look good.


----------



## Andykong

eskamobob1 said:


> I realy wish I could find an impedance curve for susvara. The 1k impedance of 83db/mw gives you like 5W continuous to safely reach 120db for good dynamics, but everyone I know with a pair goes "yah, I do 25W into 60 ohm, but if you can go 200W into 60ohm, just go for it. It keeps getting better"



The impedance of planar headphone is purely resistive, it is not frequency dependent, so the impedance curve should be a straight line at the rated impedance.


----------



## twister6

Just for confirmation since I was discussing this with another reviewer, anybody else with C9 and either EE Odin or Campfire Andro/Solaris sensitive IEMs who can comment on the hissing?


----------



## twister6

Andykong said:


> Pretty soon, stay tuned.  We have promised battery tray as optional accessories when we launch C9, we'll try our best to deliver ASAP.



Wanted to add, for those who missed it in my review since I had a few people ask me about it already, the tray by itself works as a standalone charger.  So if you get a spare one you can charge it separately w/batteries and just swap modules.  Here, I have it connected to external battery charger:


----------



## bigbeans

twister6 said:


> Just for confirmation since I was discussing this with another reviewer, anybody else with C9 and either EE Odin or Campfire Andro/Solaris sensitive IEMs who can comment on the hissing?



Hi. Yes, I can CONFIRM hissing on EE Odin unbalanced, low gain in both modes. I can hear the volume potentiometer as well. It seems Odin directly from R8 (3.5mm) is the best way to go.


----------



## Andykong (Feb 27, 2021)

eskamobob1 said:


> Something tells me you aren't in socal, but if yiu are, I would be happy to meet you and lend you both. As for the XC, honestly, its fairly easy to drive. The current spikes are obviously an issue, but my micro BL has absalitely 0 issues so I can't imagine the C9 will either.
> 
> Edit: I agree with above though. If you create a portable capable of fully pushing susvara under 2k ill insta buy



No where near SoCal, unfortunately.   Maybe I'll be there in next CanJam SoCal.  

I also think Ether-C and LCD-X are not as demanding as Abyss Diana (40 Ohm, 91dB), so there is good chance that C9 can cover these two closed back planars.

Let's work out the mathematics.  If we can modify the design of C9 to drive Susvara satisfactory, which headphone users groups will "add" to existing C9 customer profile?  Most likely we can add AB1266 (47Ohms, 88dB), HEDDphone (42 Ohms, 84dB), HE6se (50 Ohms, 83dB), and Susvara (60 Ohms, 83dB) eventually, and maybe a significant proportion of these users (let's ay 50%) will prefer a portable amplifier over desktop amplifier.

Let's forget about the different between 40 Ohms and 60 Ohms for the moment. To extend our reach for extra 8dB (from 91dB to 83dB), we need to increase our power by more than 6 times, or 6.31x to be exact according to the formula dB= 10log(P1/P2).  Now let's ASSUME it is technically feasible to increase the C9 to 6 times more powerful within the same size, weight and battery duration, but that will also increase the noise floor (or SNR), and we need to pretty much give up at least 90% of IEM markets segment.

So is this an attractive business proposal? To trade 90% of IEM market segment with 50% of AB1266/HEDDphone/HE6/Susvara user groups?   

PS.  This is only a rough calculation, but I guess I illustrated our decision making considerations already.  We have spend a lot of time to study and define the market segment of new product such as C9.  We did our homework to make sure our new flagship portable headphone amplifier can push the envelope of the industry, serve the largest group of users, and take the lowest risk.


----------



## bigbeans

To add to Andy's post, headphone manufactures are transitioning to more efficient designs as well, even for flagship tier. There are increasing amount of audiophiles with efficient headphones. For instance, I have HER10-P, Stellia, MDR Z1R and ESX900. These are perfectly served by C9.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

twister6 said:


> Wanted to add, for those who missed it in my review since I had a few people ask me about it already, the tray by itself works as a standalone charger.  So if you get a spare one you can charge it separately w/batteries and just swap modules.  Here, I have it connected to external battery charger:


This is a fantastic feature.    It's the same idea for why I have 2 Apple Watches.   I just charge one and when the power gets to a certain level, I just swap watches and my iPhone recognizes both.   For anyone who uses the exercise features of the Apple watch, this is a superb feature for not losing work outs if you need to repair your Apple watch for something like a cracked screen.


----------



## bigbeans

@Andykong , can we convince you to allow a wall only power card for Cayin C9?


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Andykong said:


> No where near SoCal, unfortunately.   Maybe I'll be there in next CanJam SoCal.
> 
> I also think Ether-C and LCD-X are not as demanding as Abyss Diana (40 Ohm, 91dB), so there is good chance that C9 can cover these two closed back planars.
> 
> ...


I've just recently discovered you on this forum., but I must say, you quite possibly could be the smartest person I've encountered in my short audiophile experience.   I would love to mind meld with you some day.


----------



## Andykong

DarginMahkum said:


> Damn this hobby! My consciousness tells me "don't be an idiot, you're only doing home office, you don't even go out to a park, it is anyway winter, and you already have an $8000 desktop device, HA200 which is way above and beyond any portable setup, on top of that you have two powerful DAPs, DX300 and W1 that can drive your headphones pretty well, what the $#! do you need another device for???"
> 
> but then enters my itch
> 
> ...



This is a good one. 
I enjoy reading your post and really like the way you portrait the "to be or not to be" C9 warfare.  To make sure we have more chapters from you, shall I make an arrangement with your local dealer so that you'll be well informed when C9 is available again?


----------



## eskamobob1

Andykong said:


> The impedance of planar headphone is purely resistive, it is not frequency dependent, so the impedance curve should be a straight line at the rated impedance.



Oh? I was under the (apparently mistaken?) impression that while impedance spikes weren't as pronounced as they typically are on dynamics, you still have frequency dependent inductance in the traces as well as damping issues caused by the traces moving in the magnetic field that need to be damped (both of which I thought affected effective inductance)



Andykong said:


> No where near SoCal, unfortunately.   Maybe I'll be there in next CanJam SoCal.
> 
> I also think Ether-C and LCD-X are not as demanding as Abyss Diana (40 Ohm, 91dB), so there is good chance that C9 can cover these two closed back planars.
> 
> ...



FWIW, I didnt propose the idea cause I thought it was a lucrative market. I just am only portable and want to be able to run susvara 😂


----------



## DarginMahkum

Andykong said:


> This is a good one.
> I enjoy reading your post and really like the way you portrait the "to be or not to be" C9 warfare.  To make sure we have more chapters from you, shall I make an arrangement with your local dealer so that you'll be well informed when C9 is available again?


 
For sure, there can be more chapters but I talk too much, can you guarantee you won't ban me? I was banned before and it didn't feel good.  The arrangement would be good, for sure. I lose my sleep over those photos people keep sending. I am afraid I can't go to sleep before I smell that "fresh out of production" smell of a new C9.


----------



## Andykong (Feb 27, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> Now for such thing like that, you should as Cayin to send sample to HeadFi Supremus member who uses headphones as main uses and have those in their Arsenal
> 
> Anyways, if Cayin so want to, they can be innovative and create something for those users to need their demands.  At least in my opinion, Cayin has been proven and able to do such.  I am looking forward to Cayin future plans



That really depends because our hands are full in next 2-3 years already, so you are correct to say that this is a resource problem rather then a technical know-how problem.

A C9 tour is not completely impossible, but we need to plan this out carefully and it probably won't happen in near future.  The C9 is seriously back ordered and we are trying our best to fulfil the paid order from our local and international dealers ASAP.  On the other hand, I have lost a DAP in a tour when a "reviewer" disappeared completely after he collected the tour sample, and recently a tour reviewer kept the tour package for 2 months and I need to ask forum administrator to contact him on our behalf before he get back to me (and delayed another month before he send the package back), so I need to figure out a plan to minimise our risk (and follow-up workload).


----------



## Whitigir

Andykong said:


> A C9 tour is not completely impossible, but we need to plan this out carefully and it probably won't happen in near future.  *The C9 is seriously back ordered and we are trying our best to fulfil the paid order from our local and international dealers ASAP*.  On the other hand, I have lost a DAP in a tour when a "reviewer" disappeared completely after he collected the tour sample, and recently a tour reviewer kept the tour package for 2 months and I need to ask forum administrator to contact him on our behalf before he get back to me (and delayed another month before he send the package back), so I need to figure out a plan to minimise our risk (and follow-up workload).


LOL!!! Yeah, such things are foreseeable.

Anyways!!!! Have the demands for true line out source like A02 been blowing up your headquarter roof yet ?

I know it must have been !!!! I will take that the E02 is selling well.  At least it is the closest to the A02 technically


----------



## DaYooper

Andykong said:


> when C9 is available again?


UHmm, you had to know that question was coming.


----------



## Nostoi

Andykong said:


> That really depends because our hands are full in next 2-3 years already, so you are correct to say that this is a resource problem rather then a technical know-how problem.
> 
> A C9 tour is not completely impossible, but we need to plan this out carefully and it probably won't happen in near future.  The C9 is seriously back ordered and we are trying our best to fulfil the paid order from our local and international dealers ASAP.  On the other hand, I have lost a DAP in a tour when a "reviewer" disappeared completely after he collected the tour sample, and recently a tour reviewer kept the tour package for 2 months and I need to ask forum administrator to contact him on our behalf before he get back to me (and delayed another month before he send the package back), so I need to figure out a plan to minimise our risk (and follow-up workload).


Any update on when the next production is going to hit international dealers?


----------



## Andykong (Feb 27, 2021)

nelava17 said:


> This is my first post, and I am not exactly sure how the site works yet.  However, I received my Cayin C9 Amp about 10 days ago, and wanted to share some thoughts.
> I took several pictures to illustrate my various set-ups...but don't yet know how to post pictures to the site, and I also read that there is some rule that new members aren't allowed to post pictures anyway.  So I will have to make do with text only, until I can figure out how to upload images.
> 
> I also want to say sincere thanks to everyone who has posted thoughts and ideas related to the C9 Amp in this thread, as I have read the entire thread and tried out many of your suggestions or recommendations.  These really helped me in trying to obtain the best sound from the gear that I have!
> ...



Welcome to the club.   

This is a fantastic sharing.  You know what you like, what you are looking for, and you have an open mind to share  your passion and experience with other users. These are the ingredient that makes this forum better.  It is our honour to have you onboard Cayin C9 fellowship.

By the way, you have DCA Ether 2 and LCD3?  We didn't have a lot of information regarding C9 with these two cans so far, we are looking forward to your impression on these two headphones with C9.   Take your time but please come back for these.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

eskamobob1 said:


> Oh? I was under the (apparently mistaken?) impression that while impedance spikes weren't as pronounced as they typically are on dynamics, you still have frequency dependent inductance in the traces as well as damping issues caused by the traces moving in the magnetic field that need to be damped (both of which I thought affected effective inductance)
> 
> 
> 
> FWIW, I didnt propose the idea cause I thought it was a lucrative market. I just am only portable and want to be able to run susvara 😂


Perhaps you should consider being slightly less portable or start enjoying headphones that are easier to drive than a nuclear power plant.


----------



## Andykong

kwilkins said:


> A few posts have asked about the C9 compared to the Woo WA8 and I can share my impressions, I’ve had the WA8 for 2 months and the C9 for a week.
> 
> A quick background on my experience to manage your expectations of this comparison. I got into headphones at the end of last year and have enjoyed them tremendously and really jumped in the deep end, probably before I was ready to. I’m fortunate to be able to get some good gear but am still very much a novice and haven’t yet developed the audiophile “language” to give proper reviews like so many on Head-Fi do. So, if some of what I say is rudimentary or just flat out wrong it is because I’m still learning.
> 
> ...



This is extremely helpful, you have provided the missing link that we are all looking forwards to, sincerely appreciated.   

Someone has mentioned Susvara earlier on,  suggesting to "create a portable capable of fully pushing susvar".  Since you have Susvara, C9, WA9 and Chord HugoTT2 (mind you, this is a battery operated DAC/Amp), maybe you can share with us in more detail regarding Susvara with these three battery power amplifier?   I didn't try C9 with Susvara but I believe C9 don't have enough juice to handle this headphone properly, but it's nice to have someone who actually heard these combinations with us.


----------



## eskamobob1

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Perhaps you should consider being slightly less portable or start enjoying headphones that are easier to drive than a nuclear power plant.



No point in keeping reasonable when you are just dreaming anyways 👍

But realy, my main chain right now is mest on P6P. I dont want to give up the realness of the sound here but would like a little better layering and better detail. Susvara seems to be the end game of those fields but I don't have a permanent desk for an amp for them or I would have already jumped


----------



## bluestorm1992

For anyone who is interested, the N6ii with A02 pre-installed is back on sale at Musicteck.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> For anyone who is interested, the N6ii with A02 pre-installed is back on sale at Musicteck.


Dang.  Andrew must be following closely.   That will be sold out quickly.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> For anyone who is interested, the N6ii with A02 pre-installed is back on sale at Musicteck.


I almost bought it, but I want to try the LP6K and pair it with the C9.   I love the Lotoo sound.


----------



## bigbeans

That N6ii with A02 is mighty tempting. However I think the Cayin DAC will be more useful transforming the C9 into a desktop amp.

I should feel content with my R8!


----------



## Andykong (Feb 27, 2021)

twister6 said:


> Just for confirmation since I was discussing this with another reviewer, anybody else with C9 and either EE Odin or Campfire Andro/Solaris sensitive IEMs who can comment on the hissing?



I just searched the C9 thread and have located several impressions that involves C9,   bigbeans has come forth already so I'll copy and paste the other impression for our reference:

@bye2 : Not much choice of mine, mostly I'm using Ropiee > Hogo 2 > C9 with either Ether 2 / IER-Z1R / Odin for the convenient desktop ready setup. Between them, I like Tube A using 3.5 output in low gain with Odin for the warm, smoothness and energy. Moving around, I will pick my wm1a with C9.  (*HERE, *also *HERE*)

@Jeffyue : Then used A18t and Odin on the C9 balanced output low gain with tube. Had a feeling it s pushing the bass too much, to an extent that the timbre and extension is no longer there. Thought it s my hearing problem, but when I used back my N8 on tube (SE only), then can got back the high pitch clarity and extension. Maybe becoz both A18t and Odin are easy to drive, but to me I would prefer to use my N8 (or maybe even N3Pro) to enjoy the sound signature of A18t and Odin. (*HERE*)

@KickAssChewGum : A&K SP2000 Cu (set to 6v balanced line out) > Effect Audio AK 4.4mm adapter > Penon Totem 4.4mm Interconnect > Cayin C9 (set to AB Tube) > Empire Ears Odin + 4.4mm adapter = a religious experience - pretty much my ideal sound signature. (*HERE*)
Then set the C9 to Line Input and whichever of the Timbre flavors you prefer. My preferred with the SP2000 and Odin would be AB/Tube but I found the MEST was better on A/Tube for my tastes. Both at Low Gain.(*HERE*)


----------



## twister6

​
Here you go!  @iFi audio iEMatch to the rescue!!!  Just wish they would release 4.4mm version, but considering EE Odin comes with 2.5mm terminated PWA 1960 cable, this works.  Totally free of any hissing and a great sound!


----------



## bigbeans

twister6 said:


> ​
> Here you go!  @iFi audio iEMatch to the rescue!!!  Just wish they would release 4.4mm version, but considering EE Odin comes with 2.5mm terminated PWA 1960 cable, this works.  Totally free of any hissing and a great sound!
> 
> ​



Excellent to hear this. Now if I can just find a 3.5mm IEMatch in stock online haha


----------



## Frankie D

twister6 said:


> ​
> Here you go!  @iFi audio iEMatch to the rescue!!!  Just wish they would release 4.4mm version, but considering EE Odin comes with 2.5mm terminated PWA 1960 cable, this works.  Totally free of any hissing and a great sound!
> 
> ​


Do you know how it works?  Tks


----------



## twister6 (Feb 27, 2021)

Frankie D said:


> Do you know how it works?  Tks



iEMatch is a sort of an impedance adapter.  Handy to have for sensitive IEMs, and the adapter itself offers 2 levels of adjustment.  iFi micro iDSD units have it built in, actually, but awhile back iFi released it as a separate 'dongle' adapter.  I do want to mention that impedance adapter can affect the tonality, but then anybody who wants to use sensitive EE Odin with a vacuum tube amp already asking for it


----------



## bigbeans

Since IEMatch is unavailable, would EarBuddy work just as well?


----------



## Bosk

Whitigir said:


> True line out player and devices in my opinions are providing a much better : Imagings and Soundstages, where as Pseudo line out usually has smeared and confused imagings, there are also distortions at complex passages.


Reading that makes me hope for a true line out DX300 amp module even more.


----------



## twister6

bigbeans said:


> Since IEMatch is unavailable, would EarBuddy work just as well?



it is the same, just 3.5mm and without high/ultra switch, thus only $20.  Definitely should work.  Btw, I just saw audio46 store has one in stock, balanced iematch.


----------



## zen87192 (Feb 27, 2021)

Thanks Bluestorm1992 for the heads up on the N6ii with A02 deal at Musicteck. Just placed my order! Yay!I
C9 next....


----------



## DaYooper

zen87192 said:


> Thanks Bluestorm1992 for the heads up on the N6ii with A02 deal at Musicteck. Just placed my order! Yay!I
> C9 next....


yeah, me too


----------



## immortalsoul

Man, quit doing this because it is contagious and it makes me pull the trigger and buy


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

DaYooper said:


> yeah, me too


Please everyone, buy these out so that I no longer have the temptation of buying one.    The new ZMF Pendant is also on sale this weekend.  Can you believe that full sized tube amp is cheaper than the C9?


----------



## Whitigir

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Please everyone, buy these out so that I no longer have the temptation of buying one.    The new ZMF Pendant is also on sale this weekend.  Can you believe that full sized tube amp is cheaper than the C9?


Because you can’t go portable ... like there are nearfield monitor that is cheaper than some headphones....just u can’t wear on your head and walk around with


----------



## Frankie D

twister6 said:


> iEMatch is a sort of an impedance adapter.  Handy to have for sensitive IEMs, and the adapter itself offers 2 levels of adjustment.  iFi micro iDSD units have it built in, actually, but awhile back iFi released it as a separate 'dongle' adapter.  I do want to mention that impedance adapter can affect the tonality, but then anybody who wants to use sensitive EE Odin with a vacuum tube amp already asking for it


Tks Alex.  What size is the female connector?  I see the male is 2.5, so an adapter would be needed to connect to a 4.4 amp output.  But I did not see what size the female end is?  Tks.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Whitigir said:


> Because you can’t go portable ... like there are nearfield monitor that is cheaper than some headphones....just u can’t wear on your head and walk around with


I travelled all last summer to different cities with my Bottlehead Crack.    Where there is a will, there is a way.     Don't get me wrong, I want a C9 and a LP6K, but I also wants a ZMF Pendant and a Chord Hugo TT2.    But, those won't be in my possession for a while.  Only in my dreams.


----------



## bigbeans

Phew. Literally got the last 3.5mm IEMatch from B&H Photo. Should be quite useful with the DUNU Luna and Odin!


----------



## twister6

Frankie D said:


> Tks Alex.  What size is the female connector?  I see the male is 2.5, so an adapter would be needed to connect to a 4.4 amp output.  But I did not see what size the female end is?  Tks.



2.5mm in (female) 2.5mm out (male) - balanced iEMatch.


----------



## IgeNeLL

Whitigir said:


> Xelatecs has a terrible attraction to dusts.  Doesn’t matter how much you clean the ears, unless you clean it on the audiologist level of flushing twice a day LOL!!!!


The other type of alza is awesome ) this clear type is terrible ) just for take photo )


----------



## brannigan (Feb 27, 2021)

Dear fellow C9 owners, I am on a lookout for a desktop USB DAC with balanced 4.4 line out for feeding the C9. Anyone tried to pair it with the ifi zen dac? Any other alternatives that you’d recommend I try out or consider ? I am quite partial to burr brown sound signature.


----------



## bluestorm1992

brannigan said:


> Dear fellow C9 owners, I am on a lookout for a desktop USB DAC with balanced 4.4 line out for feeding the C9. Anyone tried to pair it with the ifi zen dac? Any other alternatives that you’d recommend I try out or consider ?


You can also get a dual XLR to 4.4 cable. I got mine from Moon Audio.


----------



## bigbeans (Feb 27, 2021)

brannigan said:


> Dear fellow C9 owners, I am on a lookout for a desktop USB DAC with balanced 4.4 line out for feeding the C9. Anyone tried to pair it with the ifi zen dac? Any other alternatives that you’d recommend I try out or consider ? I am quite partial to burr brown sound signature.



I'm in the same position. I started considering iFi Zen DAC signature, but Andykong recc's the Cayin iDAC6 MK2 (using 4.4mm to dual XLR cable) as it has a TUBE mode (with real tubes) and a pre amplifier. I'm also considering Denafrips Ares II as I don't have an R2R.


----------



## Kiats

Andykong said:


> That really depends because our hands are full in next 2-3 years already, so you are correct to say that this is a resource problem rather then a technical know-how problem.
> 
> A C9 tour is not completely impossible, but we need to plan this out carefully and it probably won't happen in near future.  The C9 is seriously back ordered and we are trying our best to fulfil the paid order from our local and international dealers ASAP.  On the other hand, I have lost a DAP in a tour when a "reviewer" disappeared completely after he collected the tour sample, and recently a tour reviewer kept the tour package for 2 months and I need to ask forum administrator to contact him on our behalf before he get back to me (and delayed another month before he send the package back), so I need to figure out a plan to minimise our risk (and follow-up workload).



Good problem to have: being badly back ordered.  But it’s OK. All will come to those who are patient. And if it is that good, it will be worth the wait.


----------



## decur

Whitigir said:


> Batteries rolling !! 1-4 from left to right
> 
> 
> 1/ Similar to Stock Sony but would have a lower rating with bass faster, not as energetic as Sony VCT6.
> ...


A big thank you to whitigir for the recommendation.
I just battery rolled in the Orbtronic 3500mah battery’s, they opened up the soundstage on my Diana V2’s noticeably
smoother,Blacker background,and less fatiguing.
really great👍


----------



## Whitigir

C9 and you 😂


----------



## decur

😊😊 very addicting for sure


----------



## wgkwgk

Andykong said:


> ..... and it gathered all DAP brands into one thread.


Andykong/all,
Given the excellent C9 I have the iDAC6 incoming. Not seemingly popular in forums.  I'm excited!


----------



## DaYooper

wgkwgk said:


> Andykong/all,
> Given the excellent C9 I have the iDAC6 incoming. Not seemingly popular in forums.  I'm excited!


I would have one as well, IF it were Roon ready.


----------



## bluestorm1992

DaYooper said:


> I would have one as well, IF it were Roon ready.


Speaking of (expensive) Roon-ready DACs, how about Auralic Vega G1.   

A bit off the topic of C9 sorry.  Just want to call out this product because I have always wanted it.


----------



## DaYooper

A Cambridge Audio CXN V2 is a quarter of that price


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 28, 2021)

Something fantastic you said  !!!!

Gotta love my new found love !!


----------



## zen87192

I've placed my order for a C9 and would like to have some spare batteries with spare battery trays. I see that Orbtronic batteries are recommended but which version of 'top' do I buy?  Is it the Flat Top or Button Top version of the 18650 ORB3500 model?


----------



## zen87192

Got it... Flat Top Unprotected... Just got to page 68 and saw it. I'm in the process of reading the whole C9 thread after reading all of the N6ii thread. Got a headache now from all that reading 😵


----------



## bluestorm1992

zen87192 said:


> Got it... Flat Top Unprotected... Just got to page 68 and saw it. I'm in the process of reading the whole C9 thread after reading all of the N6ii thread. Got a headache now from all that reading 😵


Relax and take a cup of tea.  You still have some time before C9 arrives, and it is good to have something to read for the time in between.


----------



## zen87192

But..... Only two left in stock!!! I'd like to buy eight to make up two sets. I'll have to wait on for stocks to arrive.


----------



## bigbeans

Heat sinks are applied. Just need to get some Velcro to attach the DAP to C9. Going to try Velcro as the picture strips don’t work.


----------



## Whitigir

bigbeans said:


> Heat sinks are applied. Just need to get some Velcro to attach the DAP to C9. Going to try Velcro as the picture strips don’t work.


Nice looking .  How did the picture hanger did not work ?


----------



## bigbeans (Feb 28, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> Nice looking .  How did the picture hanger did not work ?



The R8 Limited Edition leather case is recessed (in the metal part) and doesn't allow full contact. I did try to use more force, but it was taking too much effort and I didn't want to damage the unit. Perhaps velcro will work better. 

I am getting thicker double sided tape to compensate for the gap (https://www.amazon.com/Nano-Double-Sided-Tape-Tape，Washable/dp/B07VNSXY31/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=double+sided+tape&qid=1614552476&sr=8-6) then will put adhesive velcro on it.


----------



## Whitigir

bigbeans said:


> The R8 Limited Edition leather case is recessed (in the metal part) and doesn't allow full contact. I did try to use more force, but it was taking too much effort and I didn't want to damage the unit. Perhaps velcro will work better.


Right!!! Need a full leather case lol or try too and bottom from the leather case ?


----------



## bigbeans

Whitigir said:


> Right!!! Need a full leather case lol or try too and bottom from the leather case ?



I don't want to damage my precious Dignis Leather  

Getting Diginis R8 Leather case isn't available to my knowledge. It was a limited edition.

Worst case scenario, I can find a generic leather case on eBay and use that.


----------



## bigbeans

ESX900 Pearl White on the C9 + R8 stack is sublime!!

All I need to do now is decide between my desktop DAC to use with C9. Bifrost 2, Cayin iDAC6 MK2, or Soncoz SGD1? I think I’m leaning towards Bifrost 2 🤔


----------



## wgkwgk

After tons of searching I have the iDAC6 MK2 incoming.  I'm so impressed with the C9 that going with another Cayin seemed right.

I can let you know in a few weeks.

BTW, just finished listening with Hiby R6 2020 > C9.  Absolutely excellent.


----------



## Shawnb

zen87192 said:


> But..... Only two left in stock!!! I'd like to buy eight to make up two sets. I'll have to wait on for stocks to arrive.



Where has stock? Everywhere I'm finding is still pre-order or out of stock


----------



## bigbeans

Shawnb said:


> Where has stock? Everywhere I'm finding is still pre-order or out of stock



He’s referring to Orbtronic batteries, which at time of posting had two in stock.


----------



## Shawnb

bigbeans said:


> He’s referring to Orbtronic batteries, which at time of posting had two in stock.



Ah k makes sense.


----------



## ScubaDrunk

@Andykong 

Any idea when these will be available in the UK or anywhere else in the world?

I cannot seem to find any in stock anywhere

Thanks


----------



## Whitigir

@Andykong .  According to this block, the C9 can take 3.5mm from single ended player into 4.4mm balanced input . It will goes through a differential stage. So theoretically I can make one cables that is 3.5 into 4.4mm .
Please verify


----------



## Andykong (Mar 1, 2021)

Nostoi said:


> Any update on when the next production is going to hit international dealers?





Shawnb said:


> Where has stock? Everywhere I'm finding is still pre-order or out of stock





ScubaDrunk said:


> @Andykong
> 
> Any idea when these will be available in the UK or anywhere else in the world?
> 
> ...



I don't have access to production schedule, so I don't know the date exactly, but I was told we'll roll out second batch of C9 by mid-March if all components will arrived as schedule.  Yes, we are still waiting for parts before we can commence production.


----------



## xand

Whitigir said:


> @Andykong .  According to this block, the C9 can take 3.5mm from single ended player into 4.4mm balanced input . It will goes through a differential stage. So theoretically I can make one cables that is 3.5 into 4.4mm .



Just for my knowledge - what's the benefit in 3.5 to 4.4 when you could just do 3.5 to 3.5 and obtain the same effect (i.e. it will emerge from C9 as balanced)?

I don't see how a 3.5mm to 4.4mm cable might b e better?


----------



## kwilkins

Andykong said:


> This is extremely helpful, you have provided the missing link that we are all looking forwards to, sincerely appreciated.
> 
> Someone has mentioned Susvara earlier on, suggesting to "create a portable capable of fully pushing susvar". Since you have Susvara, C9, WA9 and Chord HugoTT2 (mind you, this is a battery operated DAC/Amp), maybe you can share with us in more detail regarding Susvara with these three battery power amplifier? I didn't try C9 with Susvara but I believe C9 don't have enough juice to handle this headphone properly, but it's nice to have someone who actually heard these combinations with us.


The C9 and the Woo WA8 do not drive the Susvara well and I wouldn't use them.  The HugoTT2 is not battery operated but it handles the Susvara beautifully.  I don't think there is a battery powered unit that will handle the Susvara.


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> I want the tube timbres choices from a portable devices  for sure, from a Line out source





Frankie D said:


> Okay, so Cayin will not make an “N9” so to speak. However, will Cayin instead make an all out top Portable Dac to use with the C9?  Tks.



As usual, I can't discuss features or timing of new products, but I though we have discussed the infeasibility of portable DAC?


----------



## Andykong

eskamobob1 said:


> Oh? I was under the (apparently mistaken?) impression that while impedance spikes weren't as pronounced as they typically are on dynamics, you still have frequency dependent inductance in the traces as well as damping issues caused by the traces moving in the magnetic field that need to be damped (both of which I thought affected effective inductance)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well, check this out *HERE*.


----------



## Andykong

bigbeans said:


> @Andykong , can we convince you to allow a wall only power card for Cayin C9?



I am not sure if I get it right completely, do you mean a module to replace the battery tray so that you can use the AC power supply directly? 

In short, we can't offer that option.  If you want to replace the battery tray with something that have an IEC C8 socket, the limited space will only allow switching power supply and that will definitely downgrade the C9 performance.   Alternative option will be DC inlet for an external power supply, @Whitigir  has suggested Linear Power Supply option previous and we have discussed the feasibility briefly *HERE.*


----------



## DaYooper

Andykong said:


> I am not sure if I get it right completely, do you mean a module to replace the battery tray so that you can use the AC power supply directly?
> 
> In short, we can't offer that option.  If you want to replace the battery tray with something that have an IEC C8 socket, the limited space will only allow switching power supply and that will definitely downgrade the C9 performance.   Alternative option will be DC inlet for an external power supply, @Whitigir  has suggested Linear Power Supply option previous and we have discussed the feasibility briefly *HERE.*


I actually like the design the way it is. And as I wait for mine to arrive I'm also waiting to hear about additional battery trays.


----------



## Andykong

Frankie D said:


> Maybe, maybe not.  An opposing viewpoint could be that the dac and amp should be noise free and that the sensitive IEM/HP are only showing you the noise in your system.
> 
> I realize system matching comes into play, but shouldn’t the Luna/Odin have less hiss with the better amp....meaning the C9 should be quieter than the N8?  Or is the issue the N8 output?   Tks.



"dac and amp should be noise free", iF the amp is better, it should have less noise, that's what you imply? 

This is quite different from my understanding of high quality amplification. Even at discussion at specification level exclusively, I always put dynamic range and low distortion before Signal to Noise ratio, and the point is, even when two amplifier are measured at the same SNR, the amplifier with higher output power will have more noise, so does that mean smaller power amplifier is always better then higher power amplifier?


----------



## Andykong

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I've just recently discovered you on this forum., but I must say, you quite possibly could be the smartest person I've encountered in my short audiophile experience.   I would love to mind meld with you some day.



I am flattered.  Thank you.   

Someone had said that Cayin has a feature that can't be copied by other brands, and that feature is called "Andy Kong", my CEO has a good laugh on that joke.  

Stay in this forum for another six months,  I am sure you'll run into many brilliant people and learned a lot of valuable knowledge and experience from them.


----------



## bigbeans

Andykong said:


> I am not sure if I get it right completely, do you mean a module to replace the battery tray so that you can use the AC power supply directly?
> 
> In short, we can't offer that option.  If you want to replace the battery tray with something that have an IEC C8 socket, the limited space will only allow switching power supply and that will definitely downgrade the C9 performance.   Alternative option will be DC inlet for an external power supply, @Whitigir  has suggested Linear Power Supply option previous and we have discussed the feasibility briefly *HERE.*


Hi Andy

Yes, I was referring to external linear power supply. I have HDPLEX300 which I use with DMPZ1, was curious if there could be compatibility with that in future.

But it seems not possible. No worries, thanks!


----------



## Whitigir

bigbeans said:


> Hi Andy
> 
> Yes, I was referring to external linear power supply. I have HDPLEX300 which I use with DMPZ1, was curious if there could be compatibility with that in future.
> 
> But it seems not possible. No worries, thanks!


HDPlex is a single rail PSU.  In order to supply the C9, it will need to be Dual rails with Mirror feedbacks as the C9 is running on Dual rails from 8.4V - and +
I have looked into this direction for a while...I still don’t think it is a viable options for all the works, expenses VS gains.  Staying with batteries is the way it should be


----------



## bigbeans

Whitigir said:


> HDPlex is a single rail PSU.  In order to supply the C9, it will need to be Dual rails with Mirror feedbacks as the C9 is running on Dual rails from 8.4V



So you're saying to buy another HD Plex, then place C9 in the middle. 

Standing on shoulder of giants.


----------



## Whitigir

bigbeans said:


> So you're saying to buy another HD Plex, then place C9 in the middle.
> 
> Standing on shoulder of giants.


LOL!!! Noooo, you need Mirror feedbacks so they don’t sag .  That means building a new PSU dual rails from scratches


----------



## Andykong

RTodd said:


> Need a link to that bag love it.



The bag is no longer available, but if you search "leather chest bag" or "leather crossbody bag" in Aliexpress, you probably will find something that works similarly.  For example I have another shoulder bag that work like this if I use it with C9




You can find variation of this bag HERE and HERE.


----------



## xand

Has anyone heard the C9 with  with Tia Fourte or Nio? @Bax1020 wants to know (more specifically as compared to a DX300 but I suspect there just isn't anyone with that combo - at least searching this thread didn't help).


----------



## Frankie D

Andykong said:


> "dac and amp should be noise free", iF the amp is better, it should have less noise, that's what you imply?
> 
> This is quite different from my understanding of high quality amplification. Even at discussion at specification level exclusively, I always put dynamic range and low distortion before Signal to Noise ratio, and the point is, even when two amplifier are measured at the same SNR, the amplifier with higher output power will have more noise, so does that mean smaller power amplifier is always better then higher power amplifier?


I was not implying one measurement over another.  I was saying if there is noise, the higher sensitivity IEM’s magnify it.  High power amps can be made to be low in noise based on high end amps  in 2-channel audio ( Boulder as an example, this is SS and not tubes).  Is there a reason why this cannot be the case with IEM’s?  I realize tubes are usually noisier, but there is also the SS output.  Tks.


----------



## bluestorm1992

xand said:


> Has anyone heard the C9 with  with Tia Fourte or Nio? @Bax1020 wants to know (more specifically as compared to a DX300 but I suspect there just isn't anyone with that combo - at least searching this thread didn't help).


I believe @lumdicks has the Nio.


----------



## Shawnb

I'm going to look at a fanny pack when I get my C9.


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> Giving it some muscular looking , love it !!
> Literally walking around with it.
> 
> @Andykong , do you happen to know what is the line in buffer input on the C9 ? I am curious.  Also, is the batteries filters staying on the battery tray itself ? Seems that way ?



Sorry, I have no idea about the circuitry inside the battery tray. 

Cayin don't disclose the component we used in our product unless the component has some features or audio characteristic that might enhance users' understanding of our design, or when it is too obvious to avoid (e.g, the WIMA capacitors).  We spend a lot of effort to explain our design and technical consideration, but very little coverage on the "material" we used.


----------



## Andykong

bigbeans said:


> @Andykong Interesting, didn't see this before.
> 
> 
> I see what you did there, recc'ing a Cayin product for my Cayin product  Interesting, this DAC has tubes! Thanks for the heads up.
> ...



To start with, iDAC-6ii used 6H16B miniature vacuum tube, although it is double triode like the Nutube 6P1, they have different sound signature.   Imagine when you use iDAC-6ii as source to your C9, you can have different level of vacuum tube flavour from the following combinations:

Solid State sound signature (iDAC6ii in SS, C9 in SS)
6H16B Vacuum Tube sound signature (iDAC6ii in Tube, C9 in SS)
6P1 Vacuum Tube sound signature (iDAC6ii in SS, C9 in Tube)
6H16B + 6P1 Vacuum Tube sound signature (iDAC6ii in Tube, C9 in Tube)
Does this sound convincing to you?


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> @Andykong .  According to this block, the C9 can take 3.5mm from single ended player into 4.4mm balanced input . It will goes through a differential stage. So theoretically I can make one cables that is 3.5 into 4.4mm .
> Please verify



The block diagram is not probably not as rigorous as you like it to be, when I draw this diagram, I didn't considered this possibility, so the answer is I don't know even you can interpret the diagram under that assumption.  

I can check with Engineer, but can you tell me the scenario that lead to this very special 3.5 into 4.4mm single end input? I know my Engineer will ask me this question for sure.


----------



## Whitigir

Andykong said:


> The block diagram is not probably not as rigorous as you like it to be, when I draw this diagram, I didn't considered this possibility, so the answer is I don't know even you can interpret the diagram under that assumption.
> 
> I can check with Engineer, but can you tell me the scenario that lead to this very special 3.5 into 4.4mm single end input? I know my Engineer will ask me this question for sure.


For example, a swappable plug at one end, and 4.4mm balanced plug at another end.  Thanks for checking with the engineers , or tell them to give me the schematic , and all question is ended (just kidding, of course you won’t disclose it lol, no one would)

Now, these swappable and adaptable plugs are very widely produced in China, Dunu, Fiio are using them....and DIY-er.  There are also player that is able to differentiate by itself, for example the Ibasso Dx220Max, and so 4.4mm line out into 3.5mm single ended is a thing.  I do have this cables from the Max, but I want to make an adaptable Interconnect, so I thought I should check with you first, given that I don’t see the schematic


----------



## Andykong

bigbeans said:


> ESX900 Pearl White on the C9 + R8 stack is sublime!!
> 
> All I need to do now is decide between my desktop DAC to use with C9. Bifrost 2, Cayin iDAC6 MK2, or Soncoz SGD1? I think I’m leaning towards Bifrost 2 🤔



Wow, this is beautiful. I have heard the red and sapphire blue  TH900 and TH909, but not this pearl white version, do they sound very different?   

High-end closed back headphone is functionally ideal for C9, excited to find out this sounds good with C9.


----------



## Andykong

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Please everyone, buy these out so that I no longer have the temptation of buying one.    The new ZMF Pendant is also on sale this weekend.  Can you believe that full sized tube amp is cheaper than the C9?



Haha, can you believe full size desktop computer is cheaper then notebook computer (for the same processing power)?  Can you believe iPad is cheaper than iPhone?


----------



## bigbeans (Mar 1, 2021)

Andykong said:


> Wow, this is beautiful. I have heard the red and sapphire blue  TH900 and TH909, but not this pearl white version, do they sound very different?
> 
> High-end closed back headphone is functionally ideal for C9, excited to find out this sounds good with C9.



The Pearl White and Sapphire Blue TH900 have the same tunings, both of which are different from the stock Red tuning.

However, I found the treble on the Pearl White TH900 sharp, so I had it modded to ESX900 by E_Schaaf (contact him via SBAF or Discord, you can PM me for his details). This resulting headphone, Pearl White ESX900, is Sonic BLISS!!

*ESX900 Mod*






*Stock Pearl White Tuning:*


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Mar 1, 2021)

Andykong said:


> Haha, can you believe full size desktop computer is cheaper then notebook computer (for the same processing power)?  Can you believe iPad is cheaper than iPhone?


True, but what this reinforces is that idea that it makes absolutely no sense to purchase a transportable device if what you really need is a desktop solution because you will get far better price/performance by purchasing the devices with the larger form factor because you are not paying for the high price of portability.

Me, I need both, so the point it moot.


----------



## Whitigir

Andykong said:


> Haha, can you believe full size desktop computer is cheaper then notebook computer (for the same processing power)?  Can you believe iPad is cheaper than iPhone?


A laptop is cheaper than an iPhone lol!


HiFiHawaii808 said:


> True, but what this reinforces is that idea that it makes absolutely no sense to purchase a transportable device if what you really need is a desktop solution because you will get far better price/performance by purchasing the devices with the larger form factor because you are not paying for the high price of portability.
> 
> Me, I need both, so the point it moot.


desktop what ? If I had to sit still, it will be speakers and not headphones


----------



## Andykong

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> True, but what this reinforces is that idea that it makes absolutely no sense to purchase a transportable device if what you really need is a desktop solution because you will get far better price/performance by purchasing the devices with the larger form factor because you are not paying for the high price of portability.
> 
> Me, I need both, so the point it moot.



I actually provided similar advice at the *earlier date* of this thread, a bad salesman you can call me.


----------



## Andykong

Frankie D said:


> I was not implying one measurement over another.  I was saying if there is noise, the higher sensitivity IEM’s magnify it.  High power amps can be made to be low in noise based on high end amps  in 2-channel audio ( Boulder as an example, this is SS and not tubes).  Is there a reason why this cannot be the case with IEM’s?  I realize tubes are usually noisier, but there is also the SS output.  Tks.



If you are not implying measurement, then how do you define quality of amplification?  Shall we define "better amp" before we can discuss "shouldn’t the Luna/Odin have less hiss with the better amp".

Is Boulder better then Gryphon, Goldmund, Mark Levinson, Viola, Pass Lab, ...  because it is quieter?   It would be a very interesting topic if you can define "quality of amplification" and then provide some technical explanation to clarify the relation between noise level and quality of amplification as you have claimed.


----------



## lumdicks

xand said:


> Has anyone heard the C9 with  with Tia Fourte or Nio? @Bax1020 wants to know (more specifically as compared to a DX300 but I suspect there just isn't anyone with that combo - at least searching this thread didn't help).


For me Nio plays well with DX300 with its mid emphasis and a bit warm SQ. I usually listen to Nio with FiR 13dB Atom Module of which it balances the bass and airy mid. Nio is not difficult to drive but improvement with C9 is still phenomenal. On DX300 and C9 stack, the most obvious improvement is deeper bass, more holographic soundstage and better micro details. I usually not listen to my Nio for Classical genre as I find the imaging is not at top league with less sparkle treble compared to U18t and Dita Dream XLS. On C9 Nio does have better extension of high and low with improved imaging and sounds better with all genres.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Mar 1, 2021)

Cayin’s official Weibo just posted a Chinese review. After reading it, I think it is an excellent, unbiased review and covers a lot of ground I am planning to discuss in my review #2. If you are interested, you can use google translate to give it a read. Let me know if you find the contents interesting but difficult to read; I may consider doing a translation of it.



Spoiler: Chinese Review



一、关于耳放的辩证论

话说天下大事，分久必合、合久必分。世事的道理莫不如此。我们都知道，一个音频系统总是由解码和放大等几个部分组成。在我们随身播放器的范畴里，这两部分内容是应该集成在一起，还是应该各自分立，始终是烧友们莫衷一是的问题。多年以前，捆绑耳放是随身听烧友的主流HiFi方式，各种便携耳放如雨后春笋一般地出现在烧友的面前。无论是国外品牌还是国产品牌，各种各样的便携耳放都被烧友们用胶皮材质的捆绑带捆在了播放器的背后。各种材质的对录线、DOCK头、独立线电等配套设施在烧友的手里都是如数家珍一般。甚至切断耳机端口输出，以提升线性数据的质量的极端玩法都能够成为圈子里的主流发烧思路。更有一些播放器，在设计的时候就直接是以线性输出端口的质量和水平作为标榜的卖点，被卖家直接搭配耳放，以套餐的形式出售。而随着国砖时代的到来，播放器的体积越来越大，声音整体素质水平、输出的内容稳定性、硬件调音的空间及能力，乃至于驱动力和控制力都得到了长足发展，取得了很大的进步和提升。烧友们也都逐渐告别了捆绑带和对录线的束缚，一体化成为了随身播放器的趋势。毕竟，在那个国砖蓬勃发展的时代，砖头的声音水平总体上已经可以满足当时的绝大多数耳塞的前端需求了。但是随着时间的推移，“贪得无厌”的烧友自然不可能满足原有的声音和设备。于是越来越高素质、高水平、需要更强驱动能力的耳塞应运而生；头戴耳机的便携需求越来越高，甚至于原本很多只适用于台式系统的大耳机也逐渐被希望采用随身播放器来驱动……随身播放器的声音水平、硬调空间以及驱动、控制能力无法满足烧友日益增长的耳机搭配需求，成为了随身听领域的主要矛盾之一。时至今日，这样的整体趋势仍在进一步发展。一方面，更高素质水平以及更难以驱动的耳机不断出现；另一方面随着社会生活节奏越来越快，更多人没有时间和精力组建和使用台式系统，而把对大耳机的前端需求转嫁到随身播放器上来。从历史的发展规律中，我们可以看见。更好的声音素质、调音水平、放大能力的设备成为每一个烧友心中迫切寻求的愿望，也是随身听领域突破瓶颈、向更高层次迈进的必由之路。在这种背景情况下，单纯地增大随身播放器的体积、调整供电方式，已经不能完全满足这一部分烧友的需求。所以，当我们再次梳理问题、寻求解决方案的时候，便携耳放就又一次出现在我们的视野里。





二、客观部分

关于C9这个耳放的很多技术性内容，在官方的介绍中都已经比较明确了，我这里不需要赘述太多。本文仅就一些大家感兴趣的以及与使用体验密切相关的内容进行一部分简单介绍。





1、Cayin C9是一个纯耳放。也就是说，C9不具备解码功能，仅能够与播放器（或其它解码设备）的线性输出端口（LO）进行连接。所以说，C9从定位上来讲，就是一个专门给发烧友设计的放大设备，需要有一款具备足够解码能力的前端作为播放载体，而不是目前市面上比较流行的解码耳放一体结构作为手机的音频外设。

2、Cayin C9的外观尺寸为16cm×8cm×2.8cm，应该说这个体积在便携耳放界属比较大的，同时重量也十分可观。我觉得C9如果搭载一个适配等级的播放器所组成的捆绑重量，可能也很难作为随身出街的设备来使用。C9其实更适合作为一个可以便携的“背包设备”，在固定场景下使用。

3、C9具有单端、平衡两组输入输出方式，可以满足各种不同的前端、耳机的适配使用方式，也可以体验到两种不同的声音效果。当然，C9在各种输入、输出模式之间可以进行自由切换，最大程度地满足使用场景需求，而且是自动识别，不需要手工切换。

4、前面板上四个功能选择键依次分别为“后级模式”、“增益等级”、“电子管-晶体管”和“放大类别”模式的选择切换。其实，后面几个功能键我们都很熟悉，不需要太多介绍。“后级模式”是一个随身耳放领域里的新功能，也就是耳放作为纯后级来使用，这当然需要具备前级输出功能的设备（如Cayin N6ii的A02主板），前后级耳放分列当然有很多声音方面的优势，虽然在随身设备中刚刚开始应用，但对于未来而言，我觉得应该是一个很有前瞻性和启发性的设计和构思。

5、耳放的续航方面，各种信号模式和放大模式下的续航情况不尽相同。我试验了一下，按照电子管+平衡模式（也就是耗电最大的情况），实际续航大概为5-6个小时，而其它模式下大约是10小时左右，与官方标称数值基本相符。

6、原机配件包括3.5单端、4.4平衡对录线各一条、备用螺丝一套、工具螺丝刀一个、充电数据线一条。对于一个耳放来讲，这样的配件已经是很齐全了。配件中，我没有发现捆绑带，当然，我也不太认为这个耳放适合用来和播放器真的捆在一起，更多的时候还是应该都摆在桌面上来使用吧。

三、声音概述

1、推力我想，对于一个耳放而言，推力肯定是最不能不谈的一个问题。C9的推力水平在随身设备领域中，笔者个人认为具备了最顶级的放大水平。即便是与很多数千价位的正规台式耳放相比，也并不逊色。任何耳塞，在C9的驱动下，都可以基本完满地发挥出其声音的最高水平；多数大耳机在C9的驱动下，都能够正常、稳定地发挥声音的水平和特点；而对于一些非常难推的旗舰级大耳机，C9也可以保证驱动到一个比较好的声音状态。我觉得基本上，C9的驱动能力大概可以达到一个中等水平的台式耳放的水平。对于很多烧友而言，这样的驱动能力，基本上就可以满足绝大多数的需求了。

2、声音推力其实更多的是一个大概的框架和概念的轮廓，评价一个设备，自然还是得看其声音的具体表现。C9给我最直观的感觉就是在其强大的推力的框架下，更具备了声音的稳定性、层次感和独特的韵味感。稳定性方面很容易理解，主要体现在声音在高驱动状态下所表现出来的流畅的线条感、自然真实的音色状态、相对较小的失真状态。C9所推出来的声音，无论是大耳机还是耳塞，都能够保持一个非常稳定、均衡、柔韧、自然的声音表现，并不会把声音表现得非常极端，或者变形、变味。打个比方，就像是足球运动员在高速跑动状态下，仍然可以灵活自如地掌控足球。所以C9的声音，给人一种举重若轻的感觉，也就是我们常说的“控制力”极佳。层次感方面，C9所体现出来的声音的层次感，不仅仅是空间位置的层次感，而更多是各级频段音准、多元化的音色多展现出来的差异化所带来的层次感。通常在高驱动状态下，声音元素的音准往往会拔高、音色在比较激烈的状态下会呈现出趋同化的状态。而C9则将声音有条不紊地展开，让声音更具多样性和差别性，以更好地表现出音乐的感官和状态。韵味感则更加是Cayin的专长。我觉得C9某种程度上来讲，其韵味感相对更加内敛，相对Cayin便携播放器的更加醇厚、暖润的味道而言，C9在保持了同样的温和、润泽的风格的前提下，相对要均衡、宽松一些。应该说，C9某种程度上在Cayin比较传统的调音味道上，进行了一定程度的调整，让声音更加平和、耐听。而如果相比其它市面上绝大多数便携耳放，C9的声音还是比较温润、松弛的，而且具有一点染色，让声音更富于乐感，也让C9在声音风格上具有更加广泛的搭配性。





3、搭配在前端的搭配问题上，我觉得应该尽量给C9搭配具有高水平解码能力的播放器或解码器作为前端，因为C9这个耳放基本上在随身领域中，属于“放end”等级的放大器了，搭配一个高解码水平的前端才能更好地发挥其能力水平。就我所尝试搭配过的播放器而言，我觉得海贝R8是一个非常理想的搭配组合，而Cayin自家的N8和N6ii这两个播放器作为“西装组合”，效果也自不必多说，其它播放器我觉得万元级别或以上的播放器搭配C9都有不错的效果。当然N6ii的前级输出接C9的纯后级是一个相当有趣的玩法，如果有兴趣可以试试。头戴耳机方面，我觉得C9可以搭配绝大多数大耳机。至少从推力角度来讲，C9可以把大多数大耳机推到一个比较正常的工作状态，即便是旗舰级别的大耳机或以难推著称的一些耳机，也都不在话下。耳塞方面则是C9最让人惊喜的地方。C9对耳塞的兼容度非常的好，往往一些容易“推过”的耳塞，在C9的驱动下，反而是张弛有度、井井有条，完全没有过激的反应和变形的声音，让耳塞得到了更高水平驱动的声音效果，而又没有受到其影响，声音具有非常好的稳定度和自然度。而对于一些以“难推”而著名的耳塞和一些高阻平头塞，C9则是让我们听到了这些耳机真正的实力和潜力，可以说，这一次C9让我对自己手里的几条“难推”耳塞，甚至有了一个新的认识。





4、模式耳放面板上有几个选择实体键，可以切换各种工作模式。我简单地对比了一下。高低增益模式的差别，基本上可以看作是电平调节切换。高增益模式下，驱动力更大一些，但是声音也略微毛躁一点；低增益模式下，驱动输出较小，而声音则会更加细腻一些。两个模式的声音整体框架及稳定性基本一致，只是在驱动力和声音的细节有所差别，可以根据不同耳机来进行切换。电子管——晶体管模式，二者主要是在声音的饱满度和音色上有所差别，因为胆放和石放的问题在HiFi领域属于争论了几十年的悬案，我自然也不能妄言优劣。只是觉得和大多数烧友的看法类似，电子管模式下的声音更温润细腻，而晶体管模式下的声音更加均衡大气。这当然就更是听者根据自己的喜好来选择了，当然，对于我来讲，我更喜欢C9的电子管，一方面是因为随身领域电子管的应用还比较少，这样的声音很难得；另一方面，我觉得C9的电子管搭配大多数耳机更加耐听。放大类别方面，我觉得A类和AB类在我直观感受上来讲，差别不是很大。不过确实能感觉到A类耳放的输出要更大一些。至于纯后级模式，我用N6ii试验了一下，觉得确实挺有趣，只是手边没有其它合适的前级输出，没有办法对比，就不太多介绍了。

四、耳机适配体验

长期以来，我们几乎已经习惯性地认为大耳机需要与台式机搭配才是正常的声音效果，加上大耳机本身的结构，并不适合用来随身出街，所以一直就并不被看好用便携系统来驱动。近年来随着播放器逐渐“扩大化”，发烧友们开始尝试用随身听来直推大耳机，虽然取得了一定程度的进步和初步的效果，普遍意义上认为可以达到“可以听”的程度，但其实与这些大耳机的真实实力仍有一定差距。C9作为一款这样的“极致体验”级别的便携耳放，其推力下的大耳机又有怎样的表现呢？我们选择了几个不同品牌且具有代表性的大耳机进行了试听。

森海塞尔HD600（旧版）

这款耳机的经典程度我不需赘述，可以说在一定程度上代表了一个大耳机的时代，那种扎实、厚重、极具厅堂感的声音可以说是扎根在很多烧友心目中的一个声音符号和品牌味道。当然，HD600其实也是一个并不太容易“伺候”的耳机，推力不足往往是会造成过于“暖、糊”的声音状态，甚至场面感上也会比较混乱。很大程度上，这也是用随身听甚至一部分入门台机来驱动HD600的一个通病。Cayin C9驱动下的HD600（原线平衡），声音中正稳重，保留HD600自身厚实、暖味的基础上，也同样具备了通透、细致的声音质感和状态。以我比较熟悉的《柴可夫斯基第一钢琴协奏曲》（里赫特版）为例，通常我用HD600听这支曲子的时候，往往会觉得力度、场面有余而细致不足，且稍显混乱，会觉得更像一支交响曲而不是钢协，钢琴的声音一定程度地被掩盖在了整体的声音之内，而C9驱动下的HD600则具有明显的改观和提升，钢琴和提琴部、管乐部的主次关系和位置关系处理得井井有条，且声音质感细致通透，具有非常明显的整体提升和音乐表达效果。





AKG K501

说到AKG，可能很多朋友会比较喜欢“大手办”K701，但我一直对其之前的这两个型号K501和K601更加情有独钟。K501的清丽和K601的旖旎都是我心目中AKG的真实模样。相对而言，很多人认为K501更容易驱动一些，但我觉得不然。K501确实是在很多较小驱动力的状态下，也能够取得不错的整体架构和质感，但是K501在驱动不足的时候，往往会表现得声音过于直白，甚至显得单薄、干涩。C9驱动K501的声音表现，就需要电子管对声音的润色和升温。因而K501在C9的驱动下，不但具有完整的框架，而且音色中多了几分润泽与温度，甚至在体量上都表现得更具厚度和纵深，让声音更稳、质感也更经推敲。试音曲目选用了《胡桃夹子》中的《花之圆舞曲》和《糖果仙子舞曲》。其实以前我用K501来听《胡桃夹子》的时候总是又爱又恨，爱是因为K501通透、亮丽的音色和曲目中甜美的童话仙境具有很高的契合度，而恨的理由则是，K501在随身听或一些便携耳放的驱动下，显得声音偏于单薄且干涩，让曲中的高频内容，特别是钢片琴的音色更显得过于直白甚至略带刺激的感觉。C9电子管驱动的K501在保留了整体框架和整体风格走向的同时，更是对声音线条进行了一定程度的柔化和打磨，同时也让声音稍微沉稳了一点，色泽稍微调暗了一点，这样的声音演绎出的《胡桃夹子》更具那种“柔和的美感”，让声音更加甜润、温和，因而更符合曲目中的意境和内容。





拜亚动力DT1990PRO

应该说DT1990PRO是一款中正、直白的耳机。这个耳机在推力不足的情况下，反而可能会有一定程度的刺激；同时如果搭配的前端也是这种比较直白的风格，则声音就会显得有些乏味。C9电子管模式驱动下的DT1990PRO，不但在推力与控制力方面拿捏得很到位，让声音具有一个非常稳定、扎实的声音表现，同时C9给了DT1990PRO一个恰到好处的染色，让DT1990PRO的声音在高素质的框架下，同时具有了更具乐感的音色和质感。我们以DT1990PRO并不擅长的女声——叶倩文《珍重》为例，应该说直推状态下的DT1990PRO的声音框架也比较完整，但是人声会显得比较生硬、直白，甚至带了点冲劲。而C9电子管模式驱动下的DT1990PRO则对声音进行了比较细致的打磨和润色，不但让人声听起来更加细致、柔和，甚至也让人声的音色质感更贴近于真实，具备了更高的还原度。相对而言，我觉得C9在驱动DT1990PRO的时候，相比于台机，在能量感方面还或多或少地略有不足，但作为随身来讲，已经很好了。





C9给我们带来的体验感绝不仅仅在大耳机领域，在与耳塞搭配上的体验也同样让人惊喜。近年来，随着随身听领域技术及材料的更新和发展，耳塞对于前端的推力需求越来越高，固有的“塞子随便就能推”的传统思想被打破，越来越多的耳塞产品的驱动性能被更多地认知和考量。

音特美ER4S

把小四放在这里，实在是因为我个人太爱这条塞子了。早年间有这么句话,叫做“小四推好，塞子到头”。当然这样的戏言一方面是因为早年间高端耳塞的水平和数量没有现在这样的水准和规模，另一方面也确实反映出来，ER4这条塞子的上限是很高的。作为一个忠实的“小四爱好者”，我前前后后折腾过六七条ER4，各个版本都非常认真地研究过，最后选择了这条“进可攻、退可守”的ER4S版。其实很多人对ER4有一个比较大的误区，就是觉得ER4这条耳机“推得好”的标准是推出低频，我用不少台机试验过，其实ER4推好的标准并不是低频，而是更加宽松又扎实的声音线条，与很多耳机不同的是，ER4这条塞子推得越好，声音反而越稳重、端正。C9驱动下的ER4S，声音就比较明显地呈现出了这样的质感和趋势，中频具备了一定的厚度和更高的密度，且声音听起来不再是通常状态下的那种直白，而更多地变得柔韧，再加之电子管模式下，声音线条感也呈现出柔化的趋势，让音乐的表达更富于内容感。特别是在C9的驱动下，ER4的声场空间倏然开阔，相比很多旗舰级耳塞的声场都并不逊色，而且架构明晰、空间通透。可以说，ER4在C9的驱动下取得了脱胎换骨的效果，让这条富于传奇色彩的耳塞，更上层楼。

老人家 山鹂

山鹂是一款具备多种单元类型的耳塞，是一个集动圈、动铁和静电单元的综合体，而且是一个具备高声音素质、高调音水准的旗舰级耳塞。对这样的一个耳机的搭配和驱动，是对耳放的一个综合性的考量，既要展现出高水平的素质和调音，同时还要让每一种单元类型的音色协调、契合，可以说是个很具有难度的搭配。实际上，C9与山鹂的搭配效果是能够让人满意的。首先，C9还是最大程度上地保证了山鹂的素质和声音水准，同时也能够让山鹂的细节和韵味原汁原味地展现出来。同时，得益于C9的驱动效果，山鹂所表现出来的声音框架更加丰富、立体，声音线条感更加明显，静电单元和动圈单元的潜能得到进一步发挥的同时，动铁单元并没有出现声音的变形和激化。这样的推力与控制力的相互统一，对于一款耳放产品来讲，是很难的。虽然我们通常认为山鹂这条耳塞，并不是一条对驱动力要求特别高的耳塞，但是在C9的驱动和润色下，这条以“韵味”见长的耳塞的韵味得到了进一步的发酵和升华，让声音更富于通透性和质感。

高阻平头耳塞

近年来高阻平头得到长足发展，这种以电路阻抗、振膜特性以及针对性调音为方式，用驱动力换取声音的稳定性和场面感的耳塞，逐步取得了很多烧友的认可。我个人也非常认同这样的产品类型，此次我选取其中比较有代表的三条平头塞来对C9进行评测。宇音PK1是高阻耳塞的鼻祖，多年来一直是平头耳塞的标杆和活化石；微翼zen2.0则是一个具有320欧的超高阻抗耳塞；而舜仕01bu系列虽然阻抗仅为一百欧左右，但实际上是最难推好的平头耳塞。这几款耳塞在声音方面具有很多共性，所以我们也统一来一起介绍。这几款平头塞在驱动不足的情况下，往往会偏向一个相对暗、闷的声音走向，而且在声场和动态打不开的情况下，声音整体框架是有一点走形的。如果用旗舰级随身播放器来驱动的话，声音基本能够达到正常水平，但是鲜活感和张弛度明显不足，声音会相对呆板、平面化。C9驱动下的这几款高阻平头塞，框架感相比旗舰级随身播放器，具有更进一步的扩展和提升，声音的空间感和力道以及整体布局，基本上可以初步达到大耳机的水平，具有明显的脱塞感和自然感。与此同时，声音的内容更加完整，很多在推力不足情况下所一抹带过的内容和细节，都清晰地在音乐背景中展现出来，同时，声音具有了色泽感和光线感，亮度大幅提升，基本上能够达到耳机设计时所预期的最佳效果。无论是小提琴协奏曲的线条和音色，还是交响乐的宏大场面和磅礴气势，都可以很明白、很完整地表现出来，甚至在一部分人声和流行类器乐的演绎中，也具备了很强的适应性，且独具韵味。 其实，参与评测的耳机还有很多，无论是驱动力、控制力、音色的协调性、调音的针对性等方面，总体上来讲都取得了比较理想的驱动效果。而且，特别是在一些比较“易推”的耳机上，C9所表现出来的控制力和声音的质感体现，更是这个耳放让人惊喜之处。受篇幅所限，就不能一一介绍了。

五、整体评价

Cayin C9这款耳放是一款具备很高的设计水准和声音水准的耳放，在驱动力、控制力以及搭配性上，在便携耳放的历史长河中可以说独领风骚、一骑绝尘。当然，如果与万元级别的台式耳放相比，C9确实还存在一定程度的差距，主要体现在能量感和稳定性方面。当然，这样的比较本身也是并不公允的，所以我们不必强求。同时，C9还具备了非常优秀的控制力和兼容性，不仅仅是可以让那些“难推”的耳机具有更好的驱动水平，而且对大多数常规的耳机，也具备了很高的兼容性，不会因为过大的驱动强度而导致常规耳机的声音变形、失真，而是能够让这些耳机也能够在一个比较稳定的声音表现中，取得更好的音质体现。Cayin C9在声音的处理上，也融入了很多独具韵味的理解和调试，其温和、宽松的声音风格，既有Cayin传统的味道，又有很多突破和创新，使得器材拥有了独具音乐乐感的表现力。这一点甚至是很多声音直白的台式耳放所不能具备的。





对于C9，我觉得对于很多发烧友而言，都是一个非常好的升级设备。特别是在播放器和耳机具备了一定水平之后的烧友，C9耳放是突破现有随身系统瓶颈的最佳选择，是一个可以带来音质上最直观、最真实，也是最大收益的一个环节；同时，C9耳放也是随身发烧友在进一步向大耳机系统迈进，而又不方便组建台式系统的情况下，一个具有真实意义的阶段性进阶的器材；C9也是一个从捆绑时代一路走来的老烧友，重温岁月的一个经典的打开方式。从目前随身领域的整体技术水平和市场情况来看，C9也是一个一劳永逸的方式，可以安心听很多年不需要升级。甚至玩家们可以通过自行更换原件的方式来寻求进一步突破和自己喜欢的声音。不过也不得不说，C9是一个比较具有用户针对性的设备，它更倾向于是在其他设备达到一定高度以后，再向上进一步突破瓶颈的设备。而纯耳放这个设备的属性，又位于随身系统的中间段落，如果前后两端的设备水平有限，那么C9所能够发挥的空间和作用也会打一定的折扣，所以我觉得C9还是更适合具备一些发烧经验和水平相当的配套设备的玩家来使用，才能最大程度发挥效果。

六、新的

多年以来，随身播放器的水平越来越高，声音也越来越好、越来越成熟。应该说，我觉得现在的发烧友是幸福的，在这样一个澎湃发展的年代里，发烧友们感受到随身HiFi领域日新月异的飞速发展，也能够更容易地获得更好的声音。但是，如果以我的角度，从时间发展的纵轴方向来看，我觉得今天的发烧友也是不幸的，因为播放器产品向智能平台靠拢，而导致趋同化；而越来越多的元素引入到了随身HiFi领域中来，也让发烧友的注意力开始分散，甚至不再把声音和音乐放在最重要的心理位置。当然这不能说是发烧友的问题，音源平台、多媒体共享、智能操作、全屏界面这些元素原本是好东西，也是这个行业、这个领域里的大势所趋。作为其中一员的我们，当然是顺应时代和潮流，在这个大背景下，再次去寻找我们真正的追求和目的。所以，我觉得Cayin C9这一次提出的这个“纯粹”，是特别具有深意的。这不仅仅是代表C9耳放对于声音的纯粹，更加是我们所追求的HiFi的纯粹，是我们在音乐中寻求内心片刻安宁、享受情感交流的纯粹。C9耳放对于我们，不仅仅是声音上所寻求的突破，更加是我们对于声音和音乐所倾注的感情和寄托。耳放和捆绑式便携播放系统，看上去是一个“怀古”的情怀，实则是新的环境、新的时代下，我们所寻求的新的突破和期望，是我们重拾初心、再次上路的里程碑和警世钟。如果我们读懂了Cayin C9的真正意义，并将这种传统的“HiFi”方式投射在新的时代中，我们才能明白，这个“纯粹”的真正含义。


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## bigbeans

Just finished adding Velcro to my R8 case. It’s a very DIY solution, not as pretty as @Whitigir. There’s a reason why I’m not showing the screen side 😂

Introducing...THE THICC STACK


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## bluestorm1992 (Mar 1, 2021)

Also, some earlier posts asked about the pairing between C9 and Oriolus Traillii. I have the pleasure to experience this pairing for the past week, and wrote a review of Traillii based on this pairing. I am reposting it here for those of you who might be interested. 



Spoiler: Oriolus Traillii Review done with Cayin C9



*Oriolus Traillii - The Summit-Fi IEM*

The Oriolus Traillii is the most expensive, and yet the absolute best IEM I have ever tried. I feel comfortable calling it the Summit-fi in the IEM world. If you do not completely agree with me in its sound, at least you will agree with me for its price - it retails for a shocking $6000. In this impression, I will try to use my own experience with the Traillii to explain what makes it stand out among all the TOTL IEMs. Whether it is worth the price tag? I hope my review can help you draw your own conclusion.

*Disclaimer*

This unit is sent to me by @MusicTeck in exchange for my honest opinion.

*Packaging and Accessories*

The packaging of the Traillii is among the simplest I have ever seen. You get a Van Nuys protective case, a bag of ear tips, a twin-tube double sleeve (in red) to keep the earpieces separated in travel, and the Traillii itself. I was not impressed by its packaging at all, as I was clearly expecting more for an ultra-high-end IEM. However, after using it for a couple of days, I find that these accessories are exactly all I need. The case is large enough to comfortably put the Traillii inside it (my Eletech leather case is in fact not big enough). The case looks and feels very durable and low-profile - perfect for traveling with such an expensive item. The red double sleeve is also very useful in keeping the Trailli protected on the way.





*The Build of the IEM and Cable*

Traillii is a gorgeous IEM. It has a darker red faceplate (just like the little bird Traillii) and a transparent shell on the other side that allows you to clearly see all the units inside and the internal wires. The Traillii is also very comfortable to have on. It is slightly bigger than my 64 Audio U18t, but smaller than UM MEST. I also don't need to push the Traillii all the way in to get a good seal - it just comfortably sits in my ears and delivers a nice fit. I use the AZLA SednaEarfitLight as recommended by some other Traillii users, but the stock tips work just fine.







The cable is a collaborative one with PW Audio - a custom-made one from PW 1960 4-wired terminated in 4.4mm. The cable is soft, durable, and aesthetically paring very well with the earpieces. Tuning-wise, Oriouls says the cable is specially tuned to optimize its synergy with the Traillii. I did not bother to do cable swapping as I feel that they two work really work together.







*General Sound Analysis*

The source I have been using the Traillii with is Cayin N6ii (A02) + C9 in tube mode (class A). The sound signature of this source is relatively warm and smooth. I also have an LP P6 Pro coming in a couple of days and will be able to add a quick section to discuss the pairing afterward. 80% of my listening is done with vocals, with the others being some rock and classical music (orchestra).







Traillii is the most balanced and natural IEM I have listened to. When listening to it, you feel the smooth flow of music delivering to you. The bass is tight and fast. The mid is smooth with great textures. The treble has a nice extension. I rarely hear sharpness in any part of the music, and the details and clarity of the music are always there. The soundstage is the highlight of Traillii as it is expansive and well-organized. It surely gives me the feeling of listening to my headphones. Because of its excellent balance in sound, the Traillii is a very non-fatiguing IEM and I can easily enjoy my music with it for hours and hours.

If I want to better explain what "balanced" means for the Traillii, it is that none of the bass, mids, or treble is too forward; nor are they too recessed. And, this is accompanied by an expansive sound stage. From reading this, you may say "Sure! Isn't this what all the (good) IEMs do?" However, this is not the case based on my experience with several TOTL IEMs. For each of the IEM I have experienced, there are always parts of the music that the IEM emphasizes. I tend not to cheat this as deficiencies. Instead, I think these emphases are what give the IEM a characteristic that appeals to a certain group of customers. Just to give a quick example, to me the Sony IER Z1R excels in its expansive sound stage, clarity of the music, and outstanding treble. These characteristics are what keep me engaged when listening to this IEM and drive what I choose to listen to with this IEM. Meanwhile, some of these characteristics come with tradeoffs. Again for the IER-Z1R, some people have found its finds to be a bit recessed, and this is what makes me move away from it eventually.

For the Traillii, I don't find it to put a particular emphasis on any part of the music. However, it is able to deliver different aspects of the music really well and keep me engaged throughout. The soundstage and layering of the music are excellent as I get to enjoy the depth of the music. It is overall a very 3D listening experience with a balanced, natural tuning that I have not experienced in any other IEMs.

*Selected Comparisons*

I am able to compare the Traillii side-by-side with my two most-used IEMs: 64 Audio U18t and UM Mest. I also had a short demo of the VE Elysium and had some interesting comparison results.

Traillii and U18t (with Eletech Socrates)

Both are quite neutral with respect to the sound. The details and imaging are on the same level. There are two major differences: (1) U18t is a more imtimate, or some may say more "engaging" IEM, than the Traillii. The vocals from U18t are noticiably closer to you. This could be very enjoyable when you want to dance with the music, so I like it very much with fast songs. The vocals in Traillii, on the other hand, is further away but without being recessed, so it is more enjoyable for long listening sessions. (2) The soundstage is also better for the Traillii. I can more clearly recognize what is happening in the background, and those information does not distract me away from the vocals I listen to.

Traillii and UM MEST (with Eletech Iliad)

I find both of them to have a similar size in sound stage. The position of vocals are also similar. The biggest difference between them is the smootheness in sound. N6ii + C9 already helps the MEST to smooth out most of its edges, but the the smoothes and rich textures in the sound from Traillii are at the next level, making the vocals truly enjoyable. The details and imaging are also better with the Traiill.

Traillii and VE Elysium

I find the mids and vocals between them to share lots of similarities. The textures and richness in sound are all there and are the best I have ever listened to. However, as has been mentioned by many users, the Ely is a very mid-focused IEM. Threfore, when compared to Traillii, I do not get as much from other parts of the music. The Ely somewhat strike me as being a not-so-balanced IEM while the Traillii is able to maintain and deliver all the aspects of the music in addition to its intoxicated mids. Overall, if you are a big fan of mid-focused IEMs, you are going to enjoy both of them immersely.

*Source Comparison*

To be added after I receive the P6 Pro. 


*Verdict*

Listening to and writing the review of Traillii reminds me of how a reviewer (Josh) describes the TOTL headphone HiFiMan Susvara. The Susvara is able to achieve at least 90% of the very best in the market for every dimension it is evaluated at. However, if you narrow down to a specific angle, you could find a "winner" that slightly outperforms the Susvara in that specific region, such as HD800s's advantage in soundstage. What makes Susvara a truly summit-fi headphone is that it is able to pack all of these excellency into one headphone and delivers it to the user. I find this description applies to the Traillii in the IEM world as well.

Would the Traillii be a good fit for your need? I think it really depneds on your "habit" in collecting and using IEMs. For some of the users, we would like to have a collection of IEMs and we can enjoy the diversity form these IEMs with different characteristics. For some others, they primarily use 1 IEM to listen to all kinds of music, and it is for this group of listeners that I think the Traillii could be a good fit, especially if you are into vocals like I am. In my own experience, if I can only own one IEM, then Traillii is the one.


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## bigbeans

bluestorm1992 said:


> Also, some earlier posts asked about the pairing between C9 and Oriolus Traillii. I have the pleasure to experience this pairing for the past week, and wrote a review of Traillii based on this pairing. I am reposting it here for those of you who might be interested.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## michaelc

bluestorm1992 said:


> Also, some earlier posts asked about the pairing between C9 and Oriolus Traillii. I have the pleasure to experience this pairing for the past week, and wrote a review of Traillii based on this pairing. I am reposting it here for those of you who might be interested.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice review. 
I think you can create 1 topic specifically for your review. 
You have enough resources and skills to do that.


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## bluestorm1992

michaelc said:


> Nice review.
> I think you can create 1 topic specifically for your review.
> You have enough resources and skills to do that.


Thank you and I might! Meanwhile, I don’t really have much time to do lots of reviews. Just doing the ones that I really like.


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## twister6

bluestorm1992 said:


> Also, some earlier posts asked about the pairing between C9 and Oriolus Traillii. I have the pleasure to experience this pairing for the past week, and wrote a review of Traillii based on this pairing. I am reposting it here for those of you who might be interested.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Indeed, great pair up of C9 + Traillii.  Though I have azla xelastec eartips in that review picture, I switched it now to CP145, much better to my ears, and use it more often with R8 since I don't have to switch between HO and LO (when using w/N6ii & E02) and interface is superfast.


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## bluestorm1992

twister6 said:


> Indeed, great pair up of C9 + Traillii.  Though I have azla xelastec eartips in that review picture, I switched it now to CP145, much better to my ears, and use it more often with R8 since I don't have to switch between HO and LO (when using w/N6ii & E02) and interface is superfast.


Alex, your collection is SICK. I am so jealous of you!   I have learned a lot from your past reviews.


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## Frankie D

Andykong said:


> If you are not implying measurement, then how do you define quality of amplification?  Shall we define "better amp" before we can discuss "shouldn’t the Luna/Odin have less hiss with the better amp".
> 
> Is Boulder better then Gryphon, Goldmund, Mark Levinson, Viola, Pass Lab, ...  because it is quieter?   It would be a very interesting topic if you can define "quality of amplification" and then provide some technical explanation to clarify the relation between noise level and quality of amplification as you have claimed.


I think we are getting into semantics.  I am talking about how quiet an amp can be.  You tell me how to measure it.  However, if I hear hiss or noise through my IEM or speaker without music playing, then it is not quiet.  This may not be necessarily make it bad, as it may still sound better to you vs amp B, I am asking can it be silent?  This would allow for a darker background during the pianissimo parts of a recording.  I mention Boulder as an example as it is silent, no matter the speaker I have heard their top amps connected.  I am asking if this level of quiet background can be replicated with an IEM amp?  Please realize I own your N8 BB and like it very much. I am asking out of interest.  Tks.


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## bigbeans (Mar 1, 2021)

How many of you guys put your DAPs on top of the C9 (tube window) like @twister6 ? Won't that overheat your players?

R8 is already quite warm (almost hot) attached on the undercarriage in Class AB transistor, balanced.


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## DaYooper

bigbeans said:


> How many of you guys put your DAPs on top of the C9 (tube window) like @twister6 ? Won't that overheat your players?
> 
> R8 is already quite warm (almost hot) attached on the undercarriage in Class AB transistor, balanced.


That's part of the reason when I get my C9 the interconnects will be .5 meter. Then they can sit side by side instead of stacked.


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## bigbeans

DaYooper said:


> That's part of the reason when I get my C9 the interconnects will be .5 meter. Then they can sit side by side instead of stacked.


Where did you find them? Can't find any decent quality ones unless I go on aliexpress.


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## Andykong

Frankie D said:


> I think we are getting into semantics.  I am talking about how quiet an amp can be.  You tell me how to measure it.  However, if I hear hiss or noise through my IEM or speaker without music playing, then it is not quiet.  This may not be necessarily make it bad, as it may still sound better to you vs amp B, I am asking can it be silent?  This would allow for a darker background during the pianissimo parts of a recording.  I mention Boulder as an example as it is silent, no matter the speaker I have heard their top amps connected.  I am asking if this level of quiet background can be replicated with an IEM amp?  Please realize I own your N8 BB and like it very much. I am asking out of interest.  Tks.


Thank you for your clarification. 
Can we design an amp to sound quieter?  Certainly we can.
Will it sound better? Not necessarily, and most likely it will sound better with several very high sensitive earphones, but downgraded to large number of IEMs and headphones
Will it make the amp better than other?  No way.

When you quote the experience of speaker based system to HeadFi application, you have neglected one issue: variation of speaker/headphone characteristic.

First of all, impedance loading.  Most modern speakers are rated between 4 Ohm to 8 Ohms, if any speaker drop to 2 ohm, that immediately raise a red flag to a lot of amplifier.  For HeadFi application, we are looking at IEM rated at 3 Ohm nominal (Empire Odin) to 600 Ohm.  In other word, speaker amplifier are designed with a very narrow impedance span when compare to headphone amplifier.  For instance, if we only design an headphone amplifier to driver 32 Ohm to 64 Ohm headphones, and user and industry can accept 16 ohm is the lowest possible impedance, and 128 Ohm is as high as we should go for, it will be relatively straightforward to design an headphone that is very quiet with so called everything.

Secondly, sensitivity.  In headphone application, the need to deal with a very wide sensitivity range, much much wider than speaker based application. If you do some homework on the speaker sensitivity, you probably will notice that most speaker amplifier are dealing with speakers between 85dB to 100dB only.  Any speaker below 85dB will consider very inefficient and required special consideration when you select an amplifier.  Likewise, any speaker beyond 100dB will required special attention and most likely very small power amplifier (something like 2A3 tube amplifier at 2.5Wpc) will be used with these speakers.  In other word, most amplifier will only target at around 10dB sensitivity range, amplifier that can work effectively with 15dB sensitivity range are consider very versatile already.

In HeadFi hobby, Susvara and HE6SE is rated at 83dB, Diana V2 that frequently quoted in C9 thread is 91dB, and there are many IEM (and a few headphone) that go beyond 120dB.  That is around 40dB sensitivity range, and something like C9 need to deal with around 25-30dB sensitive range effectively.  

Last but not least, you are listening to your speaker at 2 meters away, so you have a very "quiet" experience.  Try to listen to your speaker at 30cm and you probably will have a very different experience regarding the quietness of the speaker.  

So maybe we should discuss the topic of noise and quietness of amplifier within headphone application only, instead of quoting speaker amplifier application as reference.


----------



## Frankie D (Mar 2, 2021)

Andykong said:


> Thank you for your clarification.
> Can we design an amp to sound quieter?  Certainly we can.
> Will it sound better? Not necessarily, and most likely it will sound better with several very high sensitive earphones, but downgraded to large number of IEMs and headphones
> Will it make the amp better than other?  No way.
> ...


Thank you for that explanation. So It looks like the answer is no.  Too bad, but thank you for explaining it.  Tks.


----------



## jmills8

bigbeans said:


> How many of you guys put your DAPs on top of the C9 (tube window) like @twister6 ? Won't that overheat your players?
> 
> R8 is already quite warm (almost hot) attached on the undercarriage in Class AB transistor, balanced.


The warmer the better the sound , his sounds double plus good.


----------



## Nostoi

I received the mini-rack from Amazon Japan mentioned earlier on this thread. I don't yet - of course - have the C9, but here it is with the BX2 Plus. Works very nicely both as trans-portable (i.e., room to room) and desktop set-up where I'm driving both the BX2 Plus and my Sparkos Aries from the Hugo 2. Look forward to stacking the C9 in this mix when it comes.


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> For example, a swappable plug at one end, and 4.4mm balanced plug at another end.  Thanks for checking with the engineers , or tell them to give me the schematic , and all question is ended (just kidding, of course you won’t disclose it lol, no one would)
> 
> Now, these swappable and adaptable plugs are very widely produced in China, Dunu, Fiio are using them....and DIY-er.  There are also player that is able to differentiate by itself, for example the Ibasso Dx220Max, and so 4.4mm line out into 3.5mm single ended is a thing.  I do have this cables from the Max, but I want to make an adaptable Interconnect, so I thought I should check with you first, given that I don’t see the schematic



You have explained HOW to achieve a 3.5mm to 4.4mm interconnect, which we have no doubt that is feasible technically, but we suggest you to check with the cable manufacturer for this particular combination before you use it real life.  It can be done physically does not imply the the 3.5mm connector will extract the right signal from 4.4mm to create a legitimate single-ended adapter cable.  From what I observed, cable with interchangeable connectors are designed as headphone cables with which you can only change the 2.5/3.5/4.4 connectors on one side, maybe I didn't follow up with the cable market close enough, I didn't see any factory design interconnect that allow users to change the connectors on both end freely.

On the other hand, while you can make a legitimate 3.5mm to 4.4mm interconnect, but why don't we stick with 3.5mm to 3.5mm interconnect when you want to connect your DX220MAX to C9?  What is the advantage of 3.5mm to 4.4mm interconnect over 3.5mm to 3.5mm interconnect if we assume C9 will detect the input as single-end correctly and then go through SE/BAL conversion when needed internally?


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 2, 2021)

Andykong said:


> You have explained HOW to achieve a 3.5mm to 4.4mm interconnect, which we have no doubt that is feasible technically, but we suggest you to check with the cable manufacturer for this particular combination before you use it real life.  It can be done physically does not imply the the 3.5mm connector will extract the right signal from 4.4mm to create a legitimate single-ended adapter cable.  From what I observed, cable with interchangeable connectors are designed as headphone cables with which you can only change the 2.5/3.5/4.4 connectors on one side, maybe I didn't follow up with the cable market close enough, I didn't see any factory design interconnect that allow users to change the connectors on both end freely.
> 
> On the other hand, while you can make a legitimate 3.5mm to 4.4mm interconnect, but why don't we stick with 3.5mm to 3.5mm interconnect when you want to connect your DX220MAX to C9?  What is the advantage of 3.5mm to 4.4mm interconnect over 3.5mm to 3.5mm interconnect if we assume C9 will detect the input as single-end correctly and then go through SE/BAL conversion when needed internally?


Less plug/unplug on the 4.4mm socket on the C9 ? I just need one end to be adaptable.

Beside that, making or buying 2 dedicated Interconnect can be *costly*, especially when you are using top of the line cables materials.


----------



## lumdicks

Nostoi said:


> I received the mini-rack from Amazon Japan mentioned earlier on this thread. I don't yet - of course - have the C9, but here it is with the BX2 Plus. Works very nicely both as trans-portable (i.e., room to room) and desktop set-up where I'm driving both the BX2 Plus and my Sparkos Aries from the Hugo 2. Look forward to stacking the C9 in this mix when it comes.






I have also received mine today but I just installed 2 layers to accommodate my DAP and C9. In case you do not know, you can peel off the protective sheets on both sides of the separators to make it fully transparent.


----------



## Nostoi

lumdicks said:


> I have also received mine today but I just installed 2 layers to accommodate my DAP and C9. In case you do not know, you can peel off the protective sheets on both sides of the separators to make it fully transparent.


Nice.


----------



## twister6

bigbeans said:


> How many of you guys put your DAPs on top of the C9 (tube window) like @twister6 ? Won't that overheat your players?
> 
> R8 is already quite warm (almost hot) attached on the undercarriage in Class AB transistor, balanced.



That's not how I use it   It was only for the picture.  I usually have it on my desk, side by side, while I'm working.  And since I have it in Low Gain and Class AB, it doesn't get too hot.  Maybe warm, but not hot.


----------



## Ohmboy

kwilkins said:


> I don't think there is a battery powered unit that will handle the Susvara


Has anyone tried the ROMI Audio BX2+ with the Sus?


----------



## Whitigir

Ohmboy said:


> Has anyone tried the ROMI Audio BX2+ with the Sus?


for a moment , I thought this isn’t the C9 thread , until I scroll up to read the title.  Your questions is better asked in BX2 and Susvara thread instead


----------



## eskamobob1

Whitigir said:


> for a moment , I thought this isn’t the C9 thread , until I scroll up to read the title.  Your questions is better asked in BX2 and Susvara thread instead



Those threads probably fit the question more, but only this thread has a pic of someone running a susvara off of a bx2+ (and the user isn't active in either other thread)


----------



## bigbeans

lumdicks said:


> I have also received mine today but I just installed 2 layers to accommodate my DAP and C9. In case you do not know, you can peel off the protective sheets on both sides of the separators to make it fully transparent.



Where are you getting these high quality interconnects?
I'm looking at iFi's 4.4 interconnect, but if there's a better option I'm always open to that.


----------



## bluestorm1992

bigbeans said:


> Where are you getting these high quality interconnects?
> I'm looking at iFi's 4.4 interconnect, but if there's a better option I'm always open to that.


Eletech is launching their interconnects. You can PM @Eric Chong for more details. I should receive mine in these two weeks.


----------



## bigbeans

bluestorm1992 said:


> Eletech is launching their interconnects. You can PM @Eric Chong for more details. I should receive mine in these two weeks.



thanks, I just sent him a message.


----------



## Nostoi

bigbeans said:


> Where are you getting these high quality interconnects?
> I'm looking at iFi's 4.4 interconnect, but if there's a better option I'm always open to that.


Plussound do excellent high end interconnects.


----------



## twister6

bluestorm1992 said:


> Eletech is launching their interconnects. You can PM @Eric Chong for more details. I should receive mine in these two weeks.



Ditto!  Waiting for one from Eric as well.  Also, the trick here is not just interconnect of L+/L-/R+/R- but also a separate ground connection between TRRRS 4.4mm plugs.  A lot of the times when you see 4 wire IC cables it could mean that ground will not be connected between plugs, while some partition it with a separate GND connection.


----------



## masahito24@chart

twister6 said:


> Ditto!  Waiting for one from Eric as well.  Also, the trick here is not just interconnect of L+/L-/R+/R- but also a separate ground connection between TRRRS 4.4mm plugs.  A lot of the times when you see 4 wire IC cables it could mean that ground will not be connected between plugs, while some partition it with a separate GND connection.


Same here, I inquired about the added ground option but decided to go with the traditional setup (L+/L-/R+/R-) since only my WM1Z is able to utilize it. 

@Andykong - Does the C9 utilize the 5th pole?


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 2, 2021)

the WM1Z doesn’t use any ground for a reason .

Stock 4.4 Ic has no ground connected.  There are also high end system that don’t use shielding for a reason.  However, it will come down to the personal preferences.  If you hear the differences ? What do You prefer ?

I personally prefer (Non ground, Non shielded) on these Interconnect, even heapdhones cables....unless it is longer than 50ft


----------



## twister6

Whitigir said:


> the WM1Z doesn’t use any ground for a reason .
> 
> Stock 4.4 Ic has no ground connected.  There are also high end system that don’t use shielding for a reason.  However, it will come down to the personal preferences.  If you hear the differences ? What do You prefer ?
> 
> I personally prefer (Non ground, Non shielded) on these Interconnect, even heapdhones cables....unless it is longer than 50ft



Wait a minute, DIY interconnect cable aficionado such as yourself uses ICs without proper grounding?  Vince, I'm going to report you to head-fi sound science police, man!   But seriously, I'm really curious about it because I heard that Eletech (@Eric Chong ) will be using 6W cables for this IC to have a proper TRRRS to TRRRS connection.


----------



## Whitigir

LOL!! Even those sciences police won’t be able to change my mind.  Technically speaking, balanced connections with inverted phases can already cancel out the voltage differences between 2 polarities.  The inverted phases with twisted braiding geometry can already cancel it in a short distances.  There is no reasons to use shielded version for any of these cables unless it is 50ft in length.

My decision to not use shielded cables is just because my hearings prefer the non shielded versions ...


----------



## masahito24@chart

I think the only reason I used the GND option was due to the recommended configuration of the Mass Kobo 428. For now, I'll use the non GND cables since they've been working fine for me.


----------



## iFi audio

twister6 said:


> iEMatch is a sort of an impedance adapter.



A sort of   

https://ifi-audio.com/faqs/the-iematch-is-not-an-impedance-adapter/


----------



## twister6

Whitigir said:


> LOL!! Even those sciences police won’t be able to change my mind.  Technically speaking, balanced connections with inverted phases can already cancel out the voltage differences between 2 polarities.  The inverted phases with twisted braiding geometry can already cancel it in a short distances.  There is no reasons to use shielded version for any of these cables unless it is 50ft in length.
> 
> My decision to not use shielded cables is just because my hearings prefer the non shielded versions ...



Shielding, if properly done, is good so you don't turn your IEMs/cable into antenna picking up EMI noise, in theory, that is


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 2, 2021)

twister6 said:


> Shielding, if properly done, is good so you don't turn your IEMs/cable into antenna picking up EMI noise, in theory, that is


Here, I am gonna give you a properly shielded version 


Back to the C9, so even as we speak, the productions is still awaiting parts ? That means there is no current batch shipped out from China yet ? Are we gonna face another shortage after this batch ?


----------



## bluestorm1992

New toy to play with C9 - MMR Gae Bolg.

OOTB impression: this is a dynamic, intimate IEM with a mid focus. Sound stage is also surprisingly good under C9.


----------



## bigbeans (Mar 3, 2021)

Thanks @bluestorm1992 for pointing me out to Eletech. Just secured an order of Iliad GND 4.4 interconnect, shipped out in 2 weeks. Thanks @Eric Chong for an excellent and prompt experience. C9 deserves the best!


----------



## IgeNeLL

Whitigir said:


> LOL!! Even those sciences police won’t be able to change my mind.  Technically speaking, balanced connections with inverted phases can already cancel out the voltage differences between 2 polarities.  The inverted phases with twisted braiding geometry can already cancel it in a short distances.  There is no reasons to use shielded version for any of these cables unless it is 50ft in length.
> 
> My decision to not use shielded cables is just because my hearings prefer the non shielded versions ...


It depends on the configuration of the system. Prefer shielding ( Right shielding ) )


----------



## Eric Chong

bigbeans said:


> Thanks @bluestorm1992 for pointing me out to Eletech. Just secured an order of Iliad GND 4.4 interconnect, shipped out in 2 weeks. Thanks @Eric Chong for an excellent and prompt experience. C9 deserves the best!



And Eletech will join the C9 #Fam when it gets back in stock!


----------



## masahito24@chart

Just saw this on twitter from a site in japan, says coming soon...


----------



## jmills8

masahito24@chart said:


> Just saw this on twitter from a site in japan, says coming soon...


Nice , helps keeps the heat inside.


----------



## Whitigir

jmills8 said:


> Nice , helps keeps the heat inside.


Look good, but exactly what I just thought LOL!! The heat dissipated is too much to even wrap the C9 in anything at all when C9 is at it best (Class A+ Tubes).  Heat sinks is ok but nothing else .  The case look good, but those vents are not going to conduct the thermal as supposed, because you will need something to conduct thermally between surfaces, not just sitting on them


----------



## DaYooper

Also, it doesn't look to have access to change the battery tray without removing from case.


----------



## RTodd

Imagining a split case where one side sticks on with fins across much of the surface and the other half folds over and surrounds.


----------



## mammal

Looks pretty so maybe it is targeted at increasing sales, for those who simply do not know that it will ever become too hot to use it.


----------



## Whitigir

I have tested, the C9 has 5th Sleeve on the 4.4mm Line In side is connected to chassis ground.  To anyone who is curious


----------



## bluestorm1992

Some more pics for the official leather case. 

Ships in mainland China from March 10th. MSRP 498 RMB ($75).


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> Some more pics for the official leather case.
> 
> Ships in mainland China from March 10th. MSRP 498 RMB ($75).


Look very nice, but the problem is that even as much heat as it would be trapped in, you won’t be able to feel much of it due to the leather case.  However, the internal components will feel it


----------



## bluestorm1992

The storage bag from DiDi HiFi fits C9 quite nicely for traveling purposes.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> Some more pics for the official leather case.
> 
> Ships in mainland China from March 10th. MSRP 498 RMB ($75).


Look very space age vs. old school.

Can you fit your DAP in the same case as the C9?


----------



## Whitigir

I still wonder howmuch it would be for the spare battery module


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Look very space age vs. old school.
> 
> Can you fit your DAP in the same case as the C9?


I think the case is just for C9, although they have made another case for N6ii in matching style.


----------



## iFi audio

masahito24@chart said:


> Just saw this on twitter from a site in japan, says coming soon...



That's very cool!


----------



## Whitigir

Quiet contradictory to Andy claims about batteries vs AC...Shanling has a very different point of view on batteries operated devices


----------



## xand

Whitigir said:


> Quiet contradictory to Andy claims about batteries vs AC...Shanling has a very different point of view on batteries operated devices



Well I'd guess that Shanling doesn't do stuff like wind their own transformers?


----------



## DaYooper

You're just trying to get me to trade in my HA-6A for the HA-300?


----------



## xand

DaYooper said:


> You're just trying to get me to trade in my HA-6A for the HA-300?



Well. Cayin makes the same claim regarding HA-6A..


----------



## DaYooper (Mar 3, 2021)

Yup, I know. I read all that before I bought it. It was a very good purchase too. My S.S. Sennheiser is feeling very lonely these days. Lately I've been using the Utopia with it and really enjoying that but tonight I finally plugged in the Klipsch HP-3 and was immediately drenched with the awesome bass, and not muddy or bloated bass either, just that stuff that makes me so glad I have them phones bass.

A guy has to do something while he waits for his C9.


----------



## bluestorm1992

While we are waiting for the second batch, let me share a pic of how Chinese users of C9 have been "protecting it".


----------



## jmills8

bluestorm1992 said:


> While we are waiting for the second batch, let me share a pic of how Chinese users of C9 have been "protecting it".


Yeah , water proof so their wet bed wont damage the c9.


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 4, 2021)

xand said:


> Well I'd guess that Shanling doesn't do stuff like wind their own transformers?


Transformer winding isn’t hard.  Now, making it with Silver instead of copper is something I rarely see .

However, batteries for clean power is true.  But I am with Cayin here, AC is unlimited power where as batteries will have it pros and cons.

Having both will be the ideal world.  The shanling M30 is able to run off external power supplies .  I will be trying to do so with C9 lol

Can someone help me find out howmuch the MSRP for the battery module will be in the C9? Thank you


----------



## xand

Audio Note, and DNA (using Audio Note transformers )

M30 uses five 18650s.. but I gave up on it immediately because the interface was going to be equivalent to the M8 (same chip and Android 7). 

I'm likely going to listen to a HA-300 soon though - but I think that is only a possible purchase after CV-19 ends entirely, I might put it in the office then... hahahha.


----------



## Whitigir

xand said:


> Audio Note, and DNA (using Audio Note transformers )
> 
> M30 uses five 18650s.. but I gave up on it immediately because the interface was going to be equivalent to the M8 (same chip and Android 7).
> 
> I'm likely going to listen to a HA-300 soon though - but I think that is only a possible purchase after CV-19 ends entirely, I might put it in the office then... hahahha.


There are devices that uses those transformers for sure .  The M30 can take DC-in as well, and you are right on, the stock module will be about an M8.  Why not an M8 with a C9 already lol?

Now what the C9 needs will be a way to run off the wall AC —LOL!!  But it gotta be Balanced Linear Regulated PSU


----------



## DaYooper

Whitigir said:


> Now what the C9 needs will be a way to run off the wall AC


It does, charging up the spare batteries while listening and discharging the installed batteries. Simple eh? Now what we need is for Cayin to tell us about the spare battery trays or even to ship the pre-ordered amps.


----------



## Whitigir

DaYooper said:


> It does, charging up the spare batteries while listening and discharging the installed batteries. Simple eh? Now what we need is for Cayin to tell us about the spare battery trays or even to ship the pre-ordered amps.


Just seems Cayin and Andy has been busy lately.  I am really curious about how much this battery tray is going to be


----------



## bluestorm1992

DaYooper said:


> It does, charging up the spare batteries while listening and discharging the installed batteries. Simple eh? Now what we need is for Cayin to tell us about the spare battery trays or even to ship the pre-ordered amps.


They are back ordered for around 300 units of C9 currently... Will take a while to just complete these orders, but Cayin has made it quite clear that this is their current priority.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Basically the situation was Cayin prepared enough parts for 500 units of C9 for the first batch of production, and they expected this to be enough for at least half a year’s demand. The pre-launch market response was not so good back then when they announced the price. Cayin said they basically were persuading some of their dealers to stock a few C9.

However, to everyone’s surprise, they sold the entire first batch in less than a month.


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> Basically the situation was Cayin prepared enough parts for 500 units of C9 for the first batch of production, and they expected this to be enough for at least half a year’s demand. The pre-launch market response was not so good back then when they announced the price. Cayin said they basically were persuading some of their dealers to stock a few C9.
> 
> However, to everyone’s surprise, they sold the entire first batch in less than a month.


LOL!!!! That was nice right ? Now we need more True Line Out source

If Cayin don’t have parts for C9, then they should have Battery tray available ?


----------



## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> LOL!!!! That was nice right ? Now we need more True Line Out source
> 
> If Cayin don’t have parts for C9, then they should have Battery tray available ?


The problem is they may not have all the parts for the battery tray either. Their current plan is to do the production all-together: both C9 and the battery tray.


----------



## Shawnb

bluestorm1992 said:


> Basically the situation was Cayin prepared enough parts for 500 units of C9 for the first batch of production, and they expected this to be enough for at least half a year’s demand. The pre-launch market response was not so good back then when they announced the price. Cayin said they basically were persuading some of their dealers to stock a few C9.
> 
> However, to everyone’s surprise, they sold the entire first batch in less than a month.



I was reading through all that and had to laugh. People saying under $1000 is the Max and no way this would sell at this price only for this to happen.
So if 300 are back ordered that means they sold 800 in the first month? Damn that’s good


----------



## DaYooper

See what a couple good reviews can do?


----------



## DaYooper

How many post does it take to become supremious?


----------



## bluestorm1992

DaYooper said:


> How many post does it take to become supremious?


1500. You are getting close.


----------



## Whitigir

DaYooper said:


> How many post does it take to become supremious?


More like how many gears to be Gears supremious ?  you should get that title first

The title should be “pocket holes supremious”...I am sure all supremious have had many holes in it LOL


----------



## DaYooper

Especially if I count the ones ordered but not received yet.


----------



## DaYooper

See, like the on
es these are for.


----------



## Whitigir

DaYooper said:


> See, like the ones these are for.


Oh wow!! You are getting ready for it already.  When is it incoming ? Any given estimates yet ?


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

DaYooper said:


> How many post does it take to become supremious?


The better question is how many posts does it take to empty your bank account?


----------



## Whitigir

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> The better question is how many posts does it take to empty your bank account?


I can assure you that @DaYooper doesnt post much, but his bank account is either unlimited or has already been emptied a few times.  Just take a couple serious minutes going through his inventory listed and you will realize it


----------



## Nostoi

Whitigir said:


> Oh wow!! You are getting ready for it already.  When is it incoming ? Any given estimates yet ?


I got an ETA today for my pre-order from a UK dealer that they should have it by end of month....


----------



## DaYooper

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> The better question is how many posts does it take to empty your bank account?


All of them.


----------



## Whitigir

Nostoi said:


> I got an ETA today for my pre-order from a UK dealer that they should have it by end of month....


Very nice!!! I hope you are ready for it !!

A02 and some MQA test with Neutron


----------



## Nostoi

Whitigir said:


> Very nice!!! I hope you are ready for it !!
> 
> A02 and some MQA test with Neutron


Very much ready. Not yet on battery rolling, but I may get some TAOC Spike plates in advance to see how they pair with the C9.


----------



## jmills8

Whitigir said:


> Very nice!!! I hope you are ready for it !!
> 
> A02 and some MQA test with Neutron


----------



## newworld666

I follow this thread for a while now, but I am not sure to clearly understand if :
-> a WM1A or a WM1Z can feed correctly the C9 with their 4.4mm balanced input, as there is no line out available on such Sony's dap.
-> if it's possible to use with very good sound results an headphone 4.4mm output, can a WM1A with headphone output still get better results than DAPs with a real/proper line out (like R6pro V1, Fiio F11, KannAlpha). 

Actually, as far I can compare all of these DAP through their headphone balanced output, the best results through some external amp like the monolith THX887 is definitely the WM1A. For sure there is an improvement through that little amp for all my DAP via 4.4MM to 2 x XLR connection.
Basically, with the C9, can a proper line out (ex : KannAlpha with 4 available line out voltage 1.4V, 2V, 2.5V, 4V) outperform a WM1A (restricted/limited with 4.4mm output) ?  or is it better to wait Cayin produce a more or less dedicated DAP for the C9 (with some PEQ adjustments available ?) as none of my actual DAPs will correctly feed the "expansive" C9.

I intend to use a IER-Z1R/Ultrasone Ed15 Veritas or Z7M2 .. and waiting to find a alternative of a more portable and easier to drive HEDDphone


----------



## xand

newworld666 said:


> I follow this thread for a while now, but I am not sure to clearly understand if :
> -> a WM1A or a WM1Z can feed correctly the C9 with their 4.4mm balanced input, as there is no line out available on such Sony's dap.
> -> if it's possible to use with very good sound results an headphone 4.4mm output, can a WM1A with headphone output still get better results than DAPs with a real/proper line out (like R6pro V1, Fiio F11, KannAlpha).



The C9 can do this - look at the preamp function.



I've been listening (in bed hehe) to my old Fostex TH600 (which I bought over the TH900 at the time)...

The Utopia is so markedly superior, when compared directly out of a DX300, that the TH600 is basically unusable. I slightly regret even listening to this, I only did it because I forgot to bring the interconnect upstairs and was lazy to walk downstairs. I lasted half a song before I decided to walk downstairs. 

However, out of the C9 the improvement is so substantial that - although it's never better than the Utopia - I guess I'll keep it just for a different signature. Quite a fun signature!


----------



## wgkwgk

I just got Campfire Solaris 2020. With the C9. I litterly dropped my jaw. Amazing.  

Also, just got the iDac 6 mk2.  Another fantastic piece of equipment.  And this is only using Pre out to amped speakers. (Interconnects coming tomorrow) Then, via Liquid Platinum, then the  ZMFs come out...  (My wife and daughter simply don't understand.)

Now, this is all because of you guys that I'm spending all this money!  <grin>  That, and I was very fortunate having a successful consulting practice and the ability to start decreasing my work hours.  Work hard, don't be an a-hole to others, and you will reap the benefits (if you haven't already).


----------



## bluestorm1992

wgkwgk said:


> I just got Campfire Solaris 2020. With the C9. I litterly dropped my jaw. Amazing.
> 
> Also, just got the iDac 6 mk2.  Another fantastic piece of equipment.  And this is only using Pre out to amped speakers. (Interconnects coming tomorrow) Then, via Liquid Platinum, then the  ZMFs come out...  (My wife and daughter simply don't understand.)
> 
> Now, this is all because of you guys that I'm spending all this money!  <grin>  That, and I was very fortunate having a successful consulting practice and the ability to start decreasing my work hours.  Work hard, don't be an a-hole to others, and you will reap the benefits (if you haven't already).


Congrats! Looks like we have one more Cayin fan here. I have certainly become one myself with C9.


----------



## Whitigir

wgkwgk said:


> I just got Campfire Solaris 2020. With the C9. I litterly dropped my jaw. Amazing.
> 
> Also, just got the iDac 6 mk2.  Another fantastic piece of equipment.  And this is only using Pre out to amped speakers. (Interconnects coming tomorrow) Then, via Liquid Platinum, then the  ZMFs come out...  (My wife and daughter simply don't understand.)
> 
> Now, this is all because of you guys that I'm spending all this money!  <grin>  That, and I was very fortunate having a successful consulting practice and the ability to start decreasing my work hours.  Work hard, don't be an a-hole to others, and you will reap the benefits (if you haven't already).


Congratulations and welcome to the club 


bluestorm1992 said:


> Congrats! Looks like we have one more Cayin fan here. I have certainly become one myself with C9.


Agreed! I am kinda worried about what Cayin is brewing ... I don’t want to reach in the pocket lol


----------



## Whitigir

Some MQA to follow the trends , why not ?
N6ii and A02 is also pretty good with MQA.
Who cares about the format anyways ? It is all about the music and the artist itself.


----------



## zen87192

Well... I've got my C9 pre-order in for end of March delivery ... got my heatsinks at the ready.... waiting for the battery case release.... but can't find any batteries!


----------



## Whitigir

I am waiting for battery tray as well :/


----------



## DaYooper

zen87192 said:


> but can't find any batteries!


Maybe I bought the last 4 that Orbitronic had in stock?


----------



## twister6

Regarding the heatsink, are you guys running in High Gain, Class A, NuTubes, and over 50% volume or something like that?  For most of my IEMs in Low Gain, Class AB, and Tubes it could get warm after extended listening session, but nowhere near where it needs a heatsink   Unless people are doing this as part of accessory decoration?


----------



## Whitigir

twister6 said:


> Regarding the heatsink, are you guys running in High Gain, Class A, NuTubes, and over 50% volume or something like that?  For most of my IEMs in Low Gain, Class AB, and Tubes it could get warm after extended listening session, but nowhere near where it needs a heatsink   Unless people are doing this as part of accessory decoration?


Alex, Class A and Korg Tubes

Regardless of gain or volume, you will feel the heat


----------



## bigbeans (Mar 5, 2021)

twister6 said:


> Regarding the heatsink, are you guys running in High Gain, Class A, NuTubes, and over 50% volume or something like that?  For most of my IEMs in Low Gain, Class AB, and Tubes it could get warm after extended listening session, but nowhere near where it needs a heatsink   Unless people are doing this as part of accessory decoration?



I use heatsink to protect the other components in the unit and increase longevity.

Edit: I'm selling my Founders Odin for $2400 if anyone's interested PM me.


----------



## xand

twister6 said:


> are you guys running in High Gain, Class A, NuTubes, and over 50% volume



Yes...

So hot! 

I haven't gotten heatsinks though. Am waiting for my 60cm silver I/C.


----------



## zen87192

Do you think this battery a good option? Until Orbtronic get more stocks in...


----------



## Whitigir

zen87192 said:


> Do you think this battery a good option? Until Orbtronic get more stocks in...


Did you check out the Blue Orbtronic yet ? It is button too, so you need to have some strong fingers, but it also sound wonderful.

The battery you asked, I have not tried it, so I can’t tell.  I know orbtronic uses Panasonic for the red one as they disclosed it, which exact cell is it ? I have no clues


----------



## bluestorm1992

bigbeans said:


> I use heatsink to protect the other components in the unit and increase longevity.
> 
> Edit: I'm selling my Founders Odin for $2400 if anyone's interested PM me.


Are you getting the little bird?


----------



## bigbeans

bluestorm1992 said:


> Are you getting the little bird?


----------



## bluestorm1992

bigbeans said:


>


Congrats! To me, C9 + Traillii is the combo to beat. A truly summit-fi experience.


----------



## zen87192

I see that the supplied batteries for the C9 are Sony 3000mAh 3.7v 15A High Discharge versions.
What would happen if I placed batteries in with a 35A discharge?


----------



## gonzfi

When using this amp in a desktop setting, can I take a balanced output from an amplifier (such as a violectric v281) and feed into the c9?


----------



## eskamobob1

gonzfi said:


> When using this amp in a desktop setting, can I take a balanced output from an amplifier (such as a violectric v281) and feed into the c9?



Its a pure amp. It will take any analogue balanced input, but why would you want to double amp?


----------



## Whitigir

zen87192 said:


> I see that the supplied batteries for the C9 are Sony 3000mAh 3.7v 15A High Discharge versions.
> What would happen if I placed batteries in with a 35A discharge?


Theoretically, The higher the discharge, the better .  But hearing it is believing, you gotta roll em and see how you like em


----------



## gonzfi

Wouldn't you put it in pre amp mode and control the volume from the desktop amp? Doing it that means I havent got to unplug sources already connected.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Mar 5, 2021)

Oops, wrong thread sorry.


----------



## bigbeans

bluestorm1992 said:


> Also, Oriolus is launching a new and quite unique DAP: DPS-L2. MSRP 12800 RMB (1970 USD). It is inspired by Sony’s legendary Walkman TPS-L2.  Of course, the tap is just a nice animation.



Wow!! That’s so interesting and unconventional design.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Mar 5, 2021)

bigbeans said:


> Wow!! That’s so interesting and unconventional design.


Wrong post sorry, was intended to post in Oriolus Traillii's discussion thread.

Now that I have posted it here and In case someone C9 users are interested, Oriolus is launching a new DAP that is inspired by Sony's legendary Walkman TPS-L2. Could be a cool pairing with C9.


----------



## Shawnb

Very cool looking. Though I prefer the yellow Walkman, never had one in this color scheme


----------



## bluestorm1992

Shawnb said:


> Very cool looking. Though I prefer the yellow Walkman, never had one in this color scheme


I think this is way better than what Sony makes for their Walkman 40-year anniversary.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> Wrong post sorry, was intended to post in Oriolus Traillii's discussion thread.
> 
> Now that I have posted it here and In case someone C9 users are interested, Oriolus is launching a new DAP that is inspired by Sony's legendary Walkman TPS-L2. Could be a cool pairing with C9.


dang.  I had an original Sony Walk man when I went college in the early 80s.   This so reminds me of them.   It had those on ear headphones though.


----------



## bigbeans

Waiting for the China exclusive version, dipped in gold 😂


----------



## Whitigir

bigbeans said:


> Waiting for the China exclusive version, dipped in gold 😂


Nah, give me my C9 made out of silver chassis dipped in gold and I will take it.  I care for no Walkman


----------



## bigbeans

Whitigir said:


> Nah, give me my C9 made out of silver chassis dipped in gold and I will take it.  I care for no Walkman


Whitigir is true Asian, confirmed.


----------



## Whitigir

bigbeans said:


> Whitigir is true Asian, confirmed.


Lmao ? I don’t get it ? Is it because of the silver dipped in good thing ?  That has to do with sound quality though


----------



## bigbeans

Whitigir said:


> Lmao ? I don’t get it ? Is it because of the silver dipped in good thing ?  That has to do with sound quality though



Oh, Asians (Indian, Chinese etc) loving anything to do with gold. Also Russian oligarchs haha


----------



## Bosk

Whitigir said:


> More like how many gears to be Gears supremious ?  you should get that title first
> 
> The title should be “pocket holes supremious”...I am sure all supremious have had many holes in it LOL


Titles should be suff like "Greenhorn: Thinks he'll never pay for TOTL gear", "Veteran: Anti-spousal gear smuggler" and "Greybeard: On his 3rd Head-Fi related divorce".


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bigbeans said:


> Oh, Asians (Indian, Chinese etc) loving anything to do with gold. Also Russian oligarchs haha


Tell me about it.   Gold is literally a character in my name.


----------



## zen87192 (Mar 6, 2021)

So.... I spent the evening searching for batteries and have purchased the following for some 'Battery Rolling' and spares in the C9.
Samsung 30Q 18650 3000mAh 20A 3.6V/4.2V IMR High Drain Battery
LG HG2 Brown 18650 3000mAh 20A 3.6V/4.2V INR High Drain Battery
Efest 18650 3000mAh 35A 3.6V/3.7V IMR High Drain Battery
All Flat Top and unprotected.


----------



## bigbeans

@Whitigir is the type of guy to buy a Tesla so he can battery roll C9


----------



## lumdicks (Mar 5, 2021)

zen87192 said:


> Do you think this battery a good option? Until Orbtronic get more stocks in...


Yes it is from Panasonic. Sound is more punchy with better dynamics compared to the stock one in my experience.


----------



## justanut

Hi, sorry if it has been mentioned, can anyone peg the C9 to a comparative desktop amp / tube amp SQ wise? For me to better understand how much of an amp or tube amp one can get out of the C9.


----------



## xand

justanut said:


> Hi, sorry if it has been mentioned, can anyone peg the C9 to a comparative desktop amp / tube amp SQ wise? For me to better understand how much of an amp or tube amp one can get out of the C9.


Just go listen to it yourself.. Your local store has a HA300 demo (I've checked)...


----------



## justanut

xand said:


> Just go listen to it yourself.. Your local store has a HA300 demo (I've checked)...


Haha long queue............ maybe next year when covid over and I'm more free...


----------



## Andykong

justanut said:


> Hi, sorry if it has been mentioned, can anyone peg the C9 to a comparative desktop amp / tube amp SQ wise? For me to better understand how much of an amp or tube amp one can get out of the C9.



May I suggest you name a few desktop amplifiers as examples so that we know what you have in mind?  For example, the Schiit Ragnarok II is similarly priced (slightly cheaper) then C9, will you consider that as comparative desktop amp? 

And maybe you should also provide examples of headphones or earphones that you are going to use.  If over 50% of your listening time are IEM based, the comparison might swing to a very different direction when you only use power hungry full size headphones. 

IMHO, selecting an amplifier that meet your need and preference is far more important than comparing which are a better amplifier.


----------



## Andykong

zen87192 said:


> Well... I've got my C9 pre-order in for end of March delivery ... got my heatsinks at the ready.... waiting for the battery case release.... but can't find any batteries!





Whitigir said:


> I am waiting for battery tray as well :/



Given the current schedule, battery module will roll out immediately after we fulfilled the outstanding C9 orders, not before.


----------



## Whitigir

Andykong said:


> May I suggest you name a few desktop amplifiers as examples so that we know what you have in mind?  For example, the Schiit Ragnarok II is similarly priced (slightly cheaper) then C9, will you consider that as comparative desktop amp?
> 
> And maybe you should also provide examples of headphones or earphones that you are going to use.  If over 50% of your listening time are IEM based, the comparison might swing to a very different direction when you only use power hungry full size headphones.
> 
> IMHO, selecting an amplifier that meet your need and preference is far more important than comparing which are a better amplifier.


I agreed, most of the time and more than often, people *overlook and underestimated how important an amplifier is .*  The amplifier is so important that it is the essential piece in the chains, given that the source such as transport and DAC are at minimal implementations.  The better the amp, the better the performances.  If I had to rate the 2 primary pieces of a system, then it would be Amplifier and the headphones, then DAC, then digital source, and finally interconnect and AC cords

Now, you know why I jumped in head first with C9 ? And seriously, I jaw drop everytime admiring the little guy sitting on my palm.  Once again, if Cayin did in fact tossed in a DAC, I wouldn’t budge.....because as you mentioned earlier, the different architects to satisfy the different voltages to feed DAC and amp...._it is no longer a dedicated amp, which I don’t care for_


----------



## Andykong

zen87192 said:


> I see that the supplied batteries for the C9 are Sony 3000mAh 3.7v 15A High Discharge versions.
> What would happen if I placed batteries in with a 35A discharge?


 I can confirm the C9 won't explode with battery at 35A discharge.    

I have tried Sony VTC5A 18650 2600mah 35A, the different is minimum when compare to the C9 stock battery.


----------



## Whitigir

Andykong said:


> Given the current schedule, battery module will roll out immediately after we fulfilled the outstanding C9 orders, not before.


That is sad....it means probably a couple months if we are lucky =/


----------



## DaYooper

Whitigir said:


> That is sad....it means probably a couple months if we are lucky =/


 Oh, I think we both have enough toys to occupy us until then.


----------



## Andykong

gonzfi said:


> When using this amp in a desktop setting, can I take a balanced output from an amplifier (such as a violectric v281) and feed into the c9?





gonzfi said:


> Wouldn't you put it in pre amp mode and control the volume from the desktop amp? Doing it that means I havent got to unplug sources already connected.



It works but not desirable.  I have explained the different between Pre-amp out and headphone output, and also compared between Pre-amp input and using phone out as substitute as pre-amp in *HERE*.   The keyword in your case is "level of current gain".  In my explanation, I have said:

Phone output if your DAP don't have line out option: use PRE-amp input mode of C9. It might or might not work, depends on the level of current gain, but worth trying because you don't have other options;
since pre-amp output is by definition voltage gain without current gain from line out, so phone output with smaller current gain will likely perform better than phone output with higher current gain;
If some of the DAP headphone output offers current gain that is too high for Pre-amp input mode of C9, then your V281 is definitely not within acceptable range IMO.


----------



## Andykong

DaYooper said:


> That's part of the reason when I get my C9 the interconnects will be .5 meter. Then they can sit side by side instead of stacked.



Thanks to HiByLink, I can put my DAP side by side with C9 via a 15cm short interconnect and maintain full control to my music library.


----------



## Andykong

masahito24@chart said:


> Same here, I inquired about the added ground option but decided to go with the traditional setup (L+/L-/R+/R-) since only my WM1Z is able to utilize it.
> 
> @Andykong - Does the C9 utilize the 5th pole?



Both 4.4mm sockets, input and output, have the 5th GND pole connected.


----------



## Andykong

DaYooper said:


> Also, it doesn't look to have access to change the battery tray without removing from case.



Maybe it  works better for some.  If you developed a good habit with your C9 case, maybe (and I am not taking any responsibilities, so don't quote me on this) you can install the battery tray in the case without the two mounting screws on each side.  Taking C9 out from the protective case and swap your batteries probably is faster then unscrewed the two mounting screws > change the batteries > put back the mounting screws.


----------



## Andykong

Shawnb said:


> I was reading through all that and had to laugh. People saying under $1000 is the Max and no way this would sell at this price only for this to happen.
> So if 300 are back ordered that means they sold 800 in the first month? Damn that’s good



$1000 is the higher guess already, I have seen lower offers, and someone even said Cayin is making a big mistake if we ask for more.


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> Quiet contradictory to Andy claims about batteries vs AC...Shanling has a very different point of view on batteries operated devices





Whitigir said:


> Transformer winding isn’t hard. Now, making it with Silver instead of copper is something I rarely see .
> 
> However, batteries for clean power is true.  But I am with Cayin here, AC is unlimited power where as batteries will have it pros and cons.
> 
> ...



I don't think we are contradictory, we are only looking at the same issue from different perspective.   I am convinced AC has their edge when we are dealing with very low sensitivity (90dB or below) and high (and non-flat) impedance loading, but beyond these limitation, battery based can works pretty well, and that doesn't imply battery is better then AC either, it depends on implementation to a large extend.


----------



## eskamobob1

Andykong said:


> Maybe it  works better for some.  If you developed a good habit with your C9 case, maybe (and I am not taking any responsibilities, so don't quote me on this) you can install the battery tray in the case without the two mounting screws on each side.  Taking C9 out from the protective case and swap your batteries probably is faster then unscrewed the two mounting screws > change the batteries > put back the mounting screws.



If you guys do a V2 of the C9 a tool-less system for the battery would be an awesome addition. IMO

Also, took me a couple days to get back to you. TYVM for the info on planar impedence curves. Sent me on a several day reading spree that was crazy interesting! TYVM.


----------



## zen87192 (Mar 6, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> That is sad....it means probably a couple months if we are lucky =/


Thankfully I ordered a Battery Charger at the same time so 'rolling' Batteries will be 'hot swappable'
I will see how the C9 acts without screws to the battery tray as I'm concerned about easy disconnection if moved slightly. Not sure if it clicks into place initially giving one level of security but will judge this when received. Otherwise, one screw will suffice whilst listening to all batteries. Now looking at 4.4mm Balanced Interconnects....


----------



## eskamobob1

Andykong said:


> $1000 is the higher guess already, I have seen lower offers, and someone even said Cayin is making a big mistake if we ask for more.



LOl. Yup. Common mistake in this hobby. Just because a 2k+ passive preamp makes 0 sense to you doesnt mean it wont be massively valued by some. Plus, tbh, I dont realy get why people are acting like 2k is new territory for a portable amp. Before we got the BX2+ and similar, 1k+ was the norm for portables.


----------



## eskamobob1

Andykong said:


> I can confirm the C9 won't explode with battery at 35A discharge.
> 
> I have tried Sony VTC5A 18650 2600mah 35A, the different is minimum when compare to the C9 stock battery.



Dead currious since im not the most knowledgeable about amp topology. If you significantly increase the discharge rate of the battery does the circuit just utilize the higher limit now? Or is there some form of current limit protection built in? Changing battery voltage is probably a missive no-go I would assume, but would you actualy get benefit in hard to drive panars from higher discharge batteries?

Also, there are a number of chemistries that give voltage output in the C9 designed range. Is your SOC calculation chemistry dependent (I would assume it is)?


----------



## Whitigir

The rules of thumbs is that Voltage can not be changed, current is drawn as needed regardless of the supplied currents.  If the supplied current is less than demand, the devices will just shutdown due to inadequate power or become very slows, sluggish.


----------



## Shawnb

What's a good length for the interconnect if stacking the Max and C9?


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 6, 2021)

Shawnb said:


> What's a good length for the interconnect if stacking the Max and C9?


Stacking it up ? About as long as stock length is ok.  That is about 6”-7” from end to end, if I recalled correctly


----------



## eskamobob1 (Mar 6, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> The rules of thumbs is that Voltage can not be changed, current is drawn as needed regardless of the supplied currents.  If the supplied current is less than demand, the devices will just shutdown due to inadequate power or become very slows, sluggish.



Yes, but circuitry can absalutely be overdrawn. Thats why I was asking about an amperage limit. Its common place as a safety measure in inverters so I wasnt sure if amps generaly had a similar system


----------



## Shawnb

Whitigir said:


> Stacking it up ? About as long as stock length is ok.  That is about 6”-7” from end to end, if I recalled correctly



K thanks. Looking at getting a custom set and trying to figure out a good length. Likely will stack the C9 and Max together for max portability


----------



## RTodd (Mar 6, 2021)

eskamobob1 said:


> Yes, but circuitry can absalutely be overdrawn. Thats why I was asking about an amperage limit. Its common place as a safety measure in inverters so I wasnt sure if amps generaly had a similar system


Isn’t the current limit on the output on inverters?


----------



## eskamobob1 (Mar 6, 2021)

RTodd said:


> Isn’t the current limit on the output on inverters?



depends on the kind of inverter. On lots of 3-phase stuff you have both current input and output control. Especially on DC -> 3-phase where you have a current draw limit built into your BMS as well as an output stage current limit to protect your motor

EDIT: It all comes down to the kind of power source and load. Most of the stuff I work with uses an input current control but I also do a lot of battery stuff. If you are working with mains power (and especialy mains 3-phase), yes, current control is on output because your source will be sized such that you dont have to worry about overdrawing. The thing with battery sources is battery lifetime is a major concern and battery failure can propagate quite easily so you have to be very very careful. Typicaly, high power battery systems are highly specific (even to the point where a BMS may need to be changed for a different supplier of the same spec battery). This is especially true for coulomb counting SOC calculations (which are needed in most modern large scale battery packs as most designs nowadays utilize chemestries with super flat voltage curves), though SOC is more important for general battery life as individual batteries can rarely be replaces in EV packs as opposed to avoiding critical failure that overdrawing can cause.


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 6, 2021)

overdrawing current only happen upon conditions.  When you understand these conditions, you are handy enough to fix all kind of circuitry given that it was blown due to current overdrawn .

So then again, voltage is the rule of thumbs for any *working devices*, and under fed of current = underpowered


----------



## eskamobob1

Whitigir said:


> When you understand these conditions, you are handy enough to fix all kind of circuitry given that it was blown due to current overdrawn



Honestly I have no idea wat you are trying to say here. If you are using a PCB the internal traces tend to be what get damaged by a current over draw without any current limiters in place. That is pretty rarely something tat can be fixed without full replacement.


----------



## zen87192

Andykong said:


> I can confirm the C9 won't explode with battery at 35A discharge.
> 
> I have tried Sony VTC5A 18650 2600mah 35A, the different is minimum when compare to the C9 stock battery.


Hi Andy,
would you mind expanding on how the Battery operation regarding Ampage discharge and any internal C9 protections and limiters that are in place work please?


----------



## eskamobob1 (Mar 6, 2021)

zen87192 said:


> Hi Andy,
> would you mind expanding on how the Battery operation regarding Ampage discharge and any internal C9 protections and limiters that are in place work please?



Dead honest, with the operating voltages at play here, I suspect it was pretty easy for them to just size traces and components enough it is a non-issue. 35A discharge is already massive for the 18650 formfactor (given most 18650 cells are ~3.7V nominal and 4.3V max to keep interchangeability a bit higher). If it handes those dont realy worry about it. Its just nice to have explicet confirmation when possible. By the timer higher discharge sources with adequate lifecycles are avaible we will probably be wanting a different amp anyways


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 6, 2021)

Dude, I am confused by you question...wait... what ? Traces being damaged by current over*drawn *and so on ?

Common man...Current is DRAWN, NOT PUSHED




eskamobob1 said:


> Yes, but circuitry can absalutely be *overdrawn*. Thats why I was asking about an amperage limit. Its common place as a safety measure in inverters so I wasnt sure if amps generaly had a similar system



Only defective devices do overdrawn and damaged itself.  Yes, burned traces could happen but that only happened when the circuit is defective and failed engineering circuits

We are not designing a circuit here


----------



## zen87192 (Mar 6, 2021)

eskamobob1 said:


> Dead honest, with the operating voltages at play here, I suspect it was pretty easy for them to just size traces and components enough it is a non-issue. 35A discharge is already massive for the 18650 formfactor (given most 18650 cells are ~3.7V nominal and 4.3V max to keep interchangeability a bit higher). If it handes those dont realy worry about it. By the timer higher discharge sources with adequate lifecycles are avaible you will probably be wanting a different amp anyways


Good point on which I agree with declared handling by Andy. It's already been confirmed by Andy that 35A is not an issue.
My way of thinking is 3.6V/3.7V is the standard battery power output to the C9. Straightforward. Whatever the Ampage output declared by the Battery manufacturer, be it 10A, 15A, 20A or 35A, is what the battery will work up to, not at the fixed declared Ampage? Have I understood that correctly? Or is it the other way 'round? The Battery is fixed at those Ampages and  the unit will only 'take/claim' what it needs? Either way works... so long as it's reliable 😆


----------



## bluestorm1992

Traveling on a flight right now with my C9 stack. First time in a year.


----------



## Lu88

Andykong said:


> Both 4.4mm sockets, input and output, have the 5th GND pole connected.



Hi @Andykong ,
It says "Balanced Portable Interconnect CS-44C44 (4.4 to 4.4 with GND)" on the C9 product page below. (in "What's in the BOX?" section at the bottom)
https://en.cayin.cn/products_info?itemid=135

I believe this means the CS-44C44 is all 5 poles connected including GND.  Is it correct?
I'm asking because mine is NOT GND connected. (I have checked the continuity with an electric tester.)


----------



## RTodd

Whitigir said:


> Dude, I am confused by you question...wait... what ? Traces being damaged by current over*drawn *and so on ?
> 
> Common man...Current is DRAWN, NOT PUSHED
> 
> ...


When there is a phase imbalance or a large voltage spike on the input side at least for inverters holes can get blown right through a pc board. Anyway this is battery power. Are the cells in series or parallel in the C9?


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 6, 2021)

zen87192 said:


> Good point on which I agree. It's already been confirmed by Andy that 35A is not an issue.
> My way of thinking is 3.6V/3.7V is the standard power output to the C9. Straightforward. Whatever the Ampage output declared by the Battery manufacturer, be it 10A, 15A, 20A or 35A, is what the battery will work up to, not at the fixed declared Ampage? Have I understood that correctly? Or is it the other way 'round? The Battery is fixed at those Ampages and  the unit will only 'take/claim' what it needs? Either way works... so long as it's reliable 😆


LOL, you are being confused! So am I.  The current is Drawn, not pushed.  So unless your amplifier or C9 in this case is shorted out by something inside, the current can’t be overdrawn

In order for any working circuit to work, they have to abide the Ohm Law and engineered accordingly.  So, any unintentional load that can overdrawn current is a defective instances, and under these instances, you either failed at engineering or you have already accounted them in, for example tubes amp with surge current designed in mind, using a wrong rated fuse will blow the fuse and the amp stopped working

In any working devices, current is drawn and not pushed....unless you are talking about designing a circuit by yourself...that is a different story

The higher CDR is the better theoretically


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 6, 2021)

RTodd said:


> When there is a phase imbalance or a large voltage spike on the input side at least for inverters holes can get blown right through a pc board. Anyway this is battery power. Are the cells in series or parallel in the C9?


Both, pairs in parallel and 2 in series.  That brings it to 3.7-4.2 x 2 per rail.


----------



## RTodd (Mar 6, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> Both, 2 in parallel and 2 in series.  That brings it to 3.7-4.2 x 2 per rail.


Roughly 8V rails one for left and one for right channels. Is that correct?


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 6, 2021)

RTodd said:


> Roughly 8V rails on for left and one for right channels. Is that right?


That is correct.  I also think that they are regulated to 8.4V rails by the battery tray before feeding into the amp....

So theoretically speaking, if the battery tray is what it is.  Then Cayin can make an AC battery tray which consists of bare minimum circuitry for external regulated DC intake.

Then Cayin can also start selling L-PSU as well 

That way, you have option of battery module or AC main module ? Who knows...Andy may try to deny it as long as he can.


----------



## eskamobob1

zen87192 said:


> Good point on which I agree with declared handling by Andy. It's already been confirmed by Andy that 35A is not an issue.
> My way of thinking is 3.6V/3.7V is the standard battery power output to the C9. Straightforward. Whatever the Ampage output declared by the Battery manufacturer, be it 10A, 15A, 20A or 35A, is what the battery will work up to, not at the fixed declared Ampage? Have I understood that correctly? Or is it the other way 'round? The Battery is fixed at those Ampages and  the unit will only 'take/claim' what it needs? Either way works... so long as it's reliable 😆




Correct. The only worry of damage would be if the battery its self was used as a limiter (which would be a piss poor design). My question was if we would even see any benefit.


----------



## eskamobob1

Whitigir said:


> Dude, I am confused by you question...wait... what ? Traces being damaged by current over*drawn *and so on ?
> 
> Common man...Current is DRAWN, NOT PUSHED
> 
> ...




We are clearly talking past eachother. This is all else i will respond with for this topic. It is standard design practice to include current limiters when working with batteries to prevent overdrawing them. On top of this, tracing will be designed with certain voltage and current limits in mind. My question was simply if the c9 has limiters designed for the production cells that would get in the way of a higher discharge cell.


----------



## CANiSLAYu

Hello, I’m getting read to pull the trigger on the C9, but have some questions about how I intend to use it and what’s the best setting, etc. 

Desktop: I have a Topping D90/A90 stack connected via XLR. I believe I could have two options: 1) D90 RCA output to C9 3.5mm input and use C9 in line mode, then volume controlled on C9. 2) A90 XLR preamp output to C9 4.4mm input in Pre mode, then volume is controlled on A90.  Are both of those correct? Would one be better than the other in terms of sound quality?

Transportable 1: iFi Micro iDSD Signature RCA output to C9 3.5mm input. I believe the Signature can only be used as fixed output on the RCA out, so Direct would be the only option. That one seems straight forward.

Transportable 2: I’m in between DAPs and currently leaning towards Shanling M8. Does anyone know if the M8 has a true line out?  Would I use Direct or Pre with M8 for the best pairing?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## zen87192

oooo.... that would be nice.... L-PSU linked to a purpose made battery insert to the C9.... Yes please.... Andy?


----------



## bluestorm1992

CANiSLAYu said:


> Hello, I’m getting read to pull the trigger on the C9, but have some questions about how I intend to use it and what’s the best setting, etc.
> 
> Desktop: I have a Topping D90/A90 stack connected via XLR. I believe I could have two options: 1) D90 RCA output to C9 3.5mm input and use C9 in line mode, then volume controlled on C9. 2) A90 XLR preamp output to C9 4.4mm input in Pre mode, then volume is controlled on A90.  Are both of those correct? Would one be better than the other in terms of sound quality?
> 
> ...


As for your desktop setup, I think you are correct on both. Regarding the sound, you will get different signatures. With line-in you get the tube/SS Cayin sound. With the pre-in you get the topping clean sound. I would personally recommend the line-in setup as you should be quite familiar with the topping sound, and could benefit from having the new C9 sound.

I think your transportable setup is also good, and now it is just a matter of which DAP would work best for you. Besides N6ii, I have seen people using Hiby R8 as well and it pairs very well with C9.


----------



## twister6

Lu88 said:


> Hi @Andykong ,
> It says "Balanced Portable Interconnect CS-44C44 (4.4 to 4.4 with GND)" on the C9 product page below. (in "What's in the BOX?" section at the bottom)
> https://en.cayin.cn/products_info?itemid=135
> 
> ...



GND of TRRRS connectors in CS-44C44 is *not* connected.  You can use multimeter and check IC, the ground ring between IC ends is not connected.  But, the ground of C9 jacks inside the amp is connected.


----------



## Whitigir

twister6 said:


> GND of TRRRS connectors in CS-44C44 is *not* connected.  You can use multimeter and check IC, the ground ring between IC ends is not connected.  But, the ground of C9 jacks inside the amp is connected.


Yes, I can confirm this.


----------



## Whitigir

eskamobob1 said:


> We are clearly talking past eachother. This is all else i will respond with for this topic. It is standard design practice to include current limiters when working with batteries to prevent overdrawing them. On top of this, tracing will be designed with certain voltage and current limits in mind. My question was simply if the c9 has limiters designed for the production cells that would get in the way of a higher discharge cell.


Oh, I see what you meant now LOL! Ok, that makes senses.  It is the current limits of the battery tray and if it has 30A limit, then using 35A limits battery would not bring benefits.  Agreed, definitely a good question for @Andykong .  I am still waiting for the answer on the 4.4mm socket line in.  Will it go into differential stages if single ended was to connected into it, or is Differential stage applicable only toward the 3.5mm


----------



## twister6

Whitigir said:


> Yes, I can confirm this.


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 6, 2021)

twister6 said:


>


Correct, and that was why I said previously that even stock IC has no ground connected.  It is a matter of preferences really.  If we are talking about the properly shielding and the right shielding then It won’t be necessary until the cables is about 50ft in length.  If you are over worrying then 25ft in length minimum LOL....and as I mentioned, the *balanced design itself* was engineered for this purposes, and it is to resist interferences, it also pushing 2X as much the power as well.

Sound preferences aside, To use shielding or not shielding for short IC will also be another point of preferences (some people like to see the fancy wires for example)

However, the C9 input 4.4/3.5mm are grounded.  *The 4.4 output is not grounded*.  The A02 4.4mm is grounded.


----------



## twister6

Whitigir said:


> Correct, and that was why I said previously that even stock IC has no ground connected.  It is a matter of preferences really.  If we are talking about the properly shielding and the right shielding then It won’t be necessary until the cables is about 50ft in length.  If you are over worrying then 25ft in length minimum LOL....and as I mentioned, the *balanced design itself* was engineered for this purposes, and it is to resist interferences, it also pushing 2X as much the power as well.
> 
> Sound preferences aside, To use shielding or not shielding for short IC will also be another point of preferences (some people like to see the fancy wires for example)
> 
> However, the C9 input 4.4/3.5mm are grounded.  *The 4.4 output is not grounded*.  The A02 4.4mm is grounded.



Did you confirm it not being grounded or was it posted somewhere?  I was planning to sacrifice an old cable with 4.4mm termination, to have wires stripped so I can measure what is going on inside the jack lol!!!


----------



## Whitigir

twister6 said:


> Did you confirm it not being grounded or was it posted somewhere?  I was planning to sacrifice an old cable with 4.4mm termination, to have wires stripped so I can measure what is going on inside the jack lol!!!


I confirmed that the IC cables that comes with C9 is not shielded and not grounded.  You have a lot of works to upkeep , I don’t mind you have missed my previous posts


----------



## DarginMahkum

Anyone in UK willing to preorder...here is a small gift for you (if it was before Brexit, for sure I would also preorder one).


----------



## zen87192 (Mar 6, 2021)

This looks good. Not saying it resolves the heat issue but one can use it for transport and short periods of listening before heat build up?

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi...igned-for-portable-dacs.956477/#post-16222449

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08XW8DGRG


----------



## Whitigir

How about something like this ?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B08BFGB53J?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title


----------



## Shawnb

Whitigir said:


> How about something like this ?
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B08BFGB53J?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title



I like that.


----------



## nelava17

CANiSLAYu said:


> Hello, I’m getting read to pull the trigger on the C9, but have some questions about how I intend to use it and what’s the best setting, etc.
> 
> Desktop: I have a Topping D90/A90 stack connected via XLR. I believe I could have two options: 1) D90 RCA output to C9 3.5mm input and use C9 in line mode, then volume controlled on C9. 2) A90 XLR preamp output to C9 4.4mm input in Pre mode, then volume is controlled on A90.  Are both of those correct? Would one be better than the other in terms of sound quality?
> 
> ...


I also have a desktop DAC and Amp connected via XLR cables...so if I want to use the C9 as my amp in this set-up, I connect the DAC's RCA output to the C9's 3.5mm input, and set the C9 to 'Line In' (and just use the volume control on the C9).  That way I don't need to disconnect the XLRs from the DAC (and change cables).  I also use the C9 with 2 DAPs, and so far I like the 'Line In' better because the volume control on the C9 is very precise.  I'll attempt to post some pictures of my set-ups...photography is not my strength, so the pictures are not that great!


----------



## xand (Mar 7, 2021)

Interesting - I found today that the level of improvement provided by the c9 can be significantly affected by the headphone cable.

Out of a DX300 a EE Zeus XR was very significantly improved when listening through a PWAudio copper cable - using a DHC silver cable there was still improvement, but noticeably less.

Out of a DX300 the DHC was a significant improvement compared to the PWAudio.

Out of the C9, I wouldn't say the DHC cable is a significant improvement over the PWAudio - just a different signature.

Quite hilarious. Of course this could all be placebo, I didn't bother trying to A/B double blind (as I don't own the DHC and based on the above I don't plan on getting it).

----

In separate news, I do think C9 buyers might want to acquire a better interconnect than what's packaged with the C9.



I like my new 60cm Ares Audio Twilight - it's not on their site, was a custom order, but you can probably contact them (or Zepplin - who I ordered through and am happy with).

(To be clear to those who don't have a C9 - it's the grey cable, the black cable is the Twilight headphone cable - there could be some choice of colors).


----------



## Shecky504

Well, I received a replacement amp for my DX300 last week and all was back to normal using my C9 with 4.4mm balanced output. Until today  The same issue occurred where the amp is blown again. @Andykong Any thoughts on what keeps blowing the DX300 amp? I am using the DX300 in High Gain using Line Out to a Cayin C9 in High Gain on 4.4mm balanced output and after 1 week the DX300 amp sounds blown and unusable. I may be forced to sell my C9 unfortunately since the DX300 is my daily driver.


----------



## xand

Shecky504 said:


> Well, I received a replacement amp for my DX300 last week and all was back to normal using my C9 with 4.4mm balanced output. Until today  The same issue occurred where the amp is blown again. @Andykong Any thoughts on what keeps blowing the DX300 amp? I am using the DX300 in High Gain using Line Out to a Cayin C9 in High Gain on 4.4mm balanced output and after 1 week the DX300 amp sounds blown and unusable. I may be forced to sell my C9 unfortunately since the DX300 is my daily driver.



This is kinda stressful since I have the same setup - except I'm using medium gain (I prefer it)...


----------



## Shecky504

xand said:


> This is kinda stressful since I have the same setup - except I'm using medium gain (I prefer it)...


I've experimented with low and medium gain as well over the past week. Not sure if keeping both units in high gain is the cause but I've informed Paul at iBasso as well that their team may want to test this combo to see what's causing the issue.


----------



## xand

Shecky504 said:


> I've experimented with low and medium gain as well over the past week. Not sure if keeping both units in high gain is the cause but I've informed Paul at iBasso as well that their team may want to test this combo to see what's causing the issue.



I'm actually also mostly  using high gain on the C9 (using medium gain on the DX300).

What headphones are you using? Any adaptor?

Using the Cayin supplied interconnect between the DX300 and C9?


----------



## bluestorm1992

Shecky504 said:


> Well, I received a replacement amp for my DX300 last week and all was back to normal using my C9 with 4.4mm balanced output. Until today  The same issue occurred where the amp is blown again. @Andykong Any thoughts on what keeps blowing the DX300 amp? I am using the DX300 in High Gain using Line Out to a Cayin C9 in High Gain on 4.4mm balanced output and after 1 week the DX300 amp sounds blown and unusable. I may be forced to sell my C9 unfortunately since the DX300 is my daily driver.


I wonder if any other users have experienced similar issues. Mine N6ii works fine with both E02 and A02.


----------



## Shecky504

xand said:


> I'm actually also mostly  using high gain on the C9 (using medium gain on the DX300).
> 
> What headphones are you using? Any adaptor?
> 
> Using the Cayin supplied interconnect between the DX300 and C9?


I am using the Cayin supplied 4.4mm interconnect with no adaptor. IEMs only - Odin, Erlkonig, Legend X and Z1R.


----------



## xand (Mar 7, 2021)

Shecky504 said:


> IEMs only - Odin, Erlkonig, Legend X and Z1R.



What cables do you use to connect each of these IEMs? Any adaptors?

Actually I'm quite shocked you're using high/high gain with these (!) I would expect it to be far too loud...

When you LO out of the DX300 you're at 100 volume right?

Directly PO to the IEMs out of the DX300 what gain and volume are you at?

Maybe your C9 is faulty...


----------



## Shecky504

xand said:


> What cables to these IEMs?
> 
> Actually I'm quite shocked you're using high/high gain with these (!) I would expect it to be far too loud...
> 
> Maybe your C9 is faulty...


I know, I went back and forth between gain options, I actually prefer low gain on the C9 with the LX. The vocals and dynamics come across better to my ears with the other IEMs on high gain (although sometimes I will switch to medium gain on the DX300, but there's a low end presence that can dominate the signature which is less noticeable when switching to high gain). I'm using Horus Octa with the Erl, Iliad with the Odin, Socrates with the LX and the stock cable with the Z1R.


----------



## xand (Mar 7, 2021)

All headphone cables are 4.4mm or 3.5mm terminated?

Actually the only thing I can imagine is that somehow it's an adaptor issue, but it seems highly unlikely that an adaptor at the headphone output of the C9 would negatively affect the DX300 (and you've already said you're just using the supplied IC between DX300 and C9).

There's a small chance that if you're using some faulty adaptor with one of these headphones, and have TRIED it with the DX300, that's what killed the amp of the DX300 - can you exclude that possibility? Given that the DX300 has 4.4, 2.5, and 3.5, I actually doubt you even used any adaptors with the DX300.

Apart from that I'd suspect a C9 flaw rather than anything else... but I will certainly provide feedback on this thread if my DX300 dies.


----------



## jmills8

Shecky504 said:


> Well, I received a replacement amp for my DX300 last week and all was back to normal using my C9 with 4.4mm balanced output. Until today  The same issue occurred where the amp is blown again. @Andykong Any thoughts on what keeps blowing the DX300 amp? I am using the DX300 in High Gain using Line Out to a Cayin C9 in High Gain on 4.4mm balanced output and after 1 week the DX300 amp sounds blown and unusable. I may be forced to sell my C9 unfortunately since the DX300 is my daily driver.


Weird , so the portable amp is braking the amp which isnt being used in your dap?


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 7, 2021)

jmills8 said:


> Weird , so the portable amp is braking the amp which isnt being used in your dap?


It isn’t weird...it is “impossible”.

The amplifier is the end chain that only job is amplifications.  It will amplify or it will not, period.  It doesn’t draw power, and it doesn’t push anything backward toward the source either.

I kept telling the guy that his DX300 is a defect, but he decided to ask for an amplifier module replacement instead.  Now with a new module and it is blown again, you are blaming the C9 ? Nooo...it is your DX300 that is keeping on blowing the amp modules of it own

Your DX300 Amp module will draw power from it own main Dx300, and it will even blow itself it there is something funky going on within itself as despite it being modular, it is still a one device...If there is some short or defect, it will be damaged.  

However, go ahead and list the C9 for sale, a lot of happy customer will pick it up (plenty are waiting).  I still urge you to replace your Dx300  player, you don’t want to have the window to run out of “replacement” but getting to the point of “shipping out, waiting for repair and shipping back”


----------



## xand (Mar 7, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> It isn’t weird...it is “impossible”.
> 
> The amplifier is the end chain that only job is amplifications.  It will amplify or it will not, period.  It doesn’t draw power, and it doesn’t push anything backward toward the source either.
> 
> ...


Oh this makes sense lol.

*Edit*: To elaborate, I guess that any failure of the C9 which could break the DX300 would probably also mean that the C9 isn't working at all (e.g. a short). Does seem very unlikely (or impossible) for the C9 to generally work, but sometimes kill the source.

*Edit 2*: This also makes me feel much better, as I'm pretty sure my DX300 and C9 are both working (since I've basically compared my DX300 to a friends DX300, and my C9 to a demo C9 lol).


----------



## Whitigir

The C9 is not only with the ability to scale tremendously with headphones cables, but it also scale very well with upgraded InterConnect.

The stock IC isn’t bad, but it could be better as there are better quality out there.  It could be a little expensive though, but will be worth it


----------



## xand (Mar 7, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> The C9 is not only with the ability to scale tremendously with headphones cables, but it also scale very well with upgraded InterConnect.



As I listen more and more to my new setup.. Jeez this is true.

The improvement I'm seeing isn't as obvious as from just adding C9 into the chain though, it's more subtle - but becomes more and more obvious as I listen to more of my playlist.

*Edit*: Okay one very obvious side effect of changing the IC is I like Taylor Swift again lol. SO WIERD (I know I've been posting alot about cables, but actually I don't believe in cables...)


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 7, 2021)

Now I can carry the C9+A02 stack with me wherever I want.  There are a couple keys that I want to confirm

*With HeatSinks 4X and Class AB Solid State*

The C9 can only get warmed enough while staying inside like this after a couple hours or so.  Therefore, the C9 under this arrangement can be taken on a bike ride , a walk in the park, or walking the dog while enjoying music like you have never had done before.

There are so many different ways to carry it, but most importantly would be to find a shoulder bag that fit your style. *I had to slightly cut the opening more open on this Case* style.  It is $40 or so, and is totally worth it.  You may want to get a little larger one of you don’t prefer cutting the Zipper out of the new case
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B08BFGB53J?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_image


----------



## mungster

Whitigir said:


> Now I can carry the C9+A02 stack with me wherever I want.  There are a couple keys that I want to confirm
> 
> *With HeatSinks 4X and Class AB Solid State*
> 
> ...



Damn whitiger!  Looking cool and hip as always!  👍


----------



## RTodd (Mar 7, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> The C9 is not only with the ability to scale tremendously with headphones cables, but it also scale very well with upgraded InterConnect.
> 
> The stock IC isn’t bad, but it could be better as there are better quality out there.  It could be a little expensive though, but will be worth it


What would happen to the 300 if the line out was shorted? Is there built in protection for that within the 300 output circuit?


----------



## Whitigir

RTodd said:


> What would happen to the 300 if the line out was shorted? Is there built in protection for that within the 300 output circuit?


Now that is something to think about.  The Dx300 uses one buffer for amplifier and also act as a differential when needed for Single ended and Line out with the firmware controls.  Essentially speaking, _I don’t think you can short the Output of the Dx300_.  However, the Power supply is on the amp module itself and what would happened if the power sources has some bad management ? Idk, I don’t have the schematic of Dx300 and haven’t looked into it too much.


----------



## RTodd

Whitigir said:


> Now that is something to think about.  The Dx300 uses one buffer for amplifier and also act as a differential when needed for Single ended and Line out with the firmware controls.  Essentially speaking, _I don’t think you can short the Output of the Dx300_.  However, the Power supply is on the amp module itself and what would happened if the power sources has some bad management ? Idk, I don’t have the schematic of Dx300 and haven’t looked into it too much.


Not sure I understand the answer, just thinking if the pre-out was shorted that it would pull the max current through the circuit until something breaks. That is if there was no protection built in, which I would think there would be, as that would be easy to do with a bad cable for example, one the cat got a hold of.


----------



## xand

RTodd said:


> Not sure I understand the answer, just thinking if the pre-out was shorted that it would pull the max current through the circuit until something breaks. That is if there was no protection built in, which I would think there would be, as that would be easy to do with a bad cable for example, one the cat got a hold of.


But would the c9 work if there was such a short? Presumably not?


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 7, 2021)

RTodd said:


> Not sure I understand the answer, just thinking if the pre-out was shorted that it would pull the max current through the circuit until something breaks. That is if there was no protection built in, which I would think there would be, as that would be easy to do with a bad cable for example, one the cat got a hold of.


A bad cables with L+ and R+ shorted would possibly be damaging the Dx300 amp....but that it would also damage the C9....and you wouldn’t be hearing music lol
Common mistakes happened when L- and R- are shorted to ground because the user mistakenly plugged Balanced out into a cables that has single ended end.  But this can not happen on Dx300 stock amp as the Dx300 can differentiate and enable SE line out

**I never seen L+ and R+ to be shorted, unless possibly some mistake in DIY cables that wired 2.5mm into 3.5 mm under a wrong polarities** ? That would be some thing very special and unique instances though

I do not think there is any amplifier that has built in protections for shorting out the signals


----------



## RTodd (Mar 7, 2021)

xand said:


> But would the c9 work if there was such a short? Presumably not?


Not during the short but I think it would work after with a different working source, and if it was the same cable you either got lucky with how it was bent and did not produce the short, would definitely recommend a continuity check of the unconnected cable, if no meter available any low voltage device could be used like a battery and a flashlight bulb to check the interconnect cable for shorts. If this shorted line out is what happened than it could have happened inside the DX300. Whitgr does not think it is even possible to short the pre-out, and I do not doubt his experience.


----------



## RTodd

Whitigir said:


> A bad cables with L+ and R+ shorted would possibly be damaging the Dx300 amp....but that it would also damage the C9....and you wouldn’t be hearing music lol
> Common mistakes happened when L- and R- are shorted to ground because the user mistakenly plugged Balanced out into a cables that has single ended end.  But this can not happen on Dx300 stock amp as the Dx300 can differentiate and enable SE line out
> 
> **I never seen L+ and R+ to be shorted, unless possibly some mistake in DIY cables that wired 2.5mm into 3.5 mm under a wrong polarities** ? That would be some thing very special and unique instances though
> ...


I guess both channels would have to be shorted to ground to blow both channels in the line out circuit. No getting around, the 300 should be sent back for evaluation and repair.


----------



## zen87192

May I ask if someone could give their views on these 4.4mm to 4.4mm  interconnects to connect a C9 to an N6ii A02 please? Not many to choose from out there unless one custom makes them which then gets very expensive. if you have any recommendations of your own please let me know. Thanks for your time.

https://penonaudio.com/penon-totem-audio-cable.html

https://zeppelinandco.com/products/...player-tws-hum-tara-ic?variant=29593493209160

https://www.lazada.sg/products/44mm...ect-cable-by-infinite-cables-i1449040483.html

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08KTJ4...colid=24PFG2R6A5UX&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-4mm-Ma...&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&redirect=mobile

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audiocra...trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851&redirect=mobile


----------



## xand

I just listened for apparently 5 hours..

I need to buy a second battery set >.<


----------



## zen87192

Then there are these that I've just found on the 'tinternet.... Whoa! 😲

http://qdc-music.com/han-sound-audio-hs-i44bg-interconnect-4-4-to-4-4-with-gnd/

https://www.romiaudio.com/product-page/encryption-series-sensation-male-to-male-audio-cable


----------



## DaYooper

I looked at that Romi Audio page recently too, had to go change my shorts.


----------



## xand

DaYooper said:


> I looked at that Romi Audio page recently too, had to go change my shorts.


Too much male to male sensation?


----------



## Shecky504

The DX300 ran fine for over a month. The week I start using the C9 the DX300 amp blew. Got the new amp and the DX300 worked fine again. I started using the C9 and again the amp blew within a week. It seems to be an issue with the C9 but I don’t know for sure. Paul from iBasso said it is possible that the C9 is grounding the negative side of the balanced circuit, which would blow the op amps for the negative side.


----------



## RTodd

Shecky504 said:


> The DX300 ran fine for over a month. The week I start using the C9 the DX300 amp blew. Got the new amp and the DX300 worked fine again. I started using the C9 and again the amp blew within a week. It seems to be an issue with the C9 but I don’t know for sure. Paul from iBasso said it is possible that the C9 is grounding the negative side of the balanced circuit, which would blow the op amps for the negative side.


C9 and 300 both need repair than?
That sucks. Is Paul having you return the C9 to have it checked.


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 7, 2021)

Shecky504 said:


> The DX300 ran fine for over a month. The week I start using the C9 the DX300 amp blew. Got the new amp and the DX300 worked fine again. I started using the C9 and again the amp blew within a week. It seems to be an issue with the C9 but I don’t know for sure. Paul from iBasso said it is possible that the C9 is grounding the negative side of the balanced circuit, which would blow the op amps for the negative side.


Grounding the Negative side of the Ibasso ? That would mean the L- and R- would also be shorted to ground on the C9.  If that is the case, then the C9 itself would be damaged too, not just DX300

Still doesn’t make sense to me.  If the C9 shorted itself from L- or R- to ground then you would not have any sound on 1 channel that is shorted


----------



## bigbeans (Mar 7, 2021)

hmmmm potentially silly question

So would a prospective consumer of C9 know what equipment is safe and what isn't? I shudder to think if my R8 and Cayin C9 got damaged due to a mismatch.

Edit: Clarified below.


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 7, 2021)

bigbeans said:


> hmmmm potentially silly question
> 
> So would a prospective consumer of C9 know what equipment is safe and what isn't? I shudder to think if my R8 and Cayin C9 got damaged due to a mismatch.


I repeat this again, the C9 is an amplifier.  It *CAN NOT Damage the source*.  If any potential problems, you will be able to tell right away

1/ If the source is too powerful, the C9 will clip and distort.

2/ If the source is shorted to ground, You have no sound from a channel or both...there is no freaking way to get around it


To believe the C9 can damage your source is just plain silly, period.


----------



## bigbeans

Gotcha, thanks! Sorry whitigir, it seemed strange flagship from iBasso had issue, hence my silly question haha.


----------



## mungster

bigbeans said:


> hmmmm potentially silly question
> 
> So would a prospective consumer of C9 know what equipment is safe and what isn't? I shudder to think if my R8 and Cayin C9 got damaged due to a mismatch.


If any one device is shorted it will be only a isolated incident with that device. That doesn't mean people have to worry about if a device will be a mismatched and if there is potential damage to their equipment.  Sometimes you will have a defective device that is shorted due to a QC issue.


----------



## twister6

Shecky504 said:


> The DX300 ran fine for over a month. The week I start using the C9 the DX300 amp blew. Got the new amp and the DX300 worked fine again. I started using the C9 and again the amp blew within a week. It seems to be an issue with the C9 but I don’t know for sure. Paul from iBasso said it is possible that the C9 is grounding the negative side of the balanced circuit, which would blow the op amps for the negative side.



I see you have other sources in your sig, did you use any other DAP with C9 and have you seen any issues with it?

I have been using DX300 w/C9 during my C9 review without a problem, and now prepping for DX300 review and using it more with C9, still all good.


----------



## Whitigir

bigbeans said:


> Gotcha, thanks! Sorry whitigir, it seemed strange flagship from iBasso had issue, hence my silly question haha.


Flagship or not, defective happens.  That is why we have warranty .


----------



## Shecky504

twister6 said:


> I see you have other sources in your sig, did you use any other DAP with C9 and have you seen any issues with it?
> 
> I have been using DX300 w/C9 during my C9 review without a problem, and now prepping for DX300 review and using it more with C9, still all good.


I have but only briefly. I don’t want to risk damaging anything else at this point.


----------



## twister6

Shecky504 said:


> I have but only briefly. I don’t want to risk damaging anything else at this point.



Maybe a good time for Andy to step in with his take on this.


----------



## bluestorm1992

twister6 said:


> Maybe a good time for Andy to step in with his take on this.


@Andykong and @Paul - iBasso are not too far away from each other. (Zhuhai and Shenzhen), perhaps they can send out demo units to each other to test this out.


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 7, 2021)

Unless @twister6 has his dx300 damaged as well by connecting to the C9, then they need to check it out.  I have used Dx300 line out with C9 and I am fine.  So do others.

I can not think of any specific instances where any working amplifier can damage the source ? Unless using bad cables, which would damage both.


----------



## KickAssChewGum (Mar 7, 2021)

zen87192 said:


> May I ask if someone could give their views on these 4.4mm to 4.4mm  interconnects to connect a C9 to an N6ii A02 please? Not many to choose from out there unless one custom makes them which then gets very expensive. if you have any recommendations of your own please let me know. Thanks for your time.
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/penon-totem-audio-cable.html
> 
> ...


I can attest to the Penon Totem interconnect being a great match between the N6ii/A02 and C9.


----------



## Whitigir

Ok, honestly, I have used all DAPs line out or phones out (including DMP Z1) to amplifiers of all kinds including 950V Stax amplifiers, my Yamaha A-S3000 amplifier, my DIY amplifiers...If working amplifier can damage the source such as DAC or DAP with properly made cables, then I am either very stupid .... or very lucky

I can not think of any instances that when properly connecting between pieces, you can potentially damage the source by the amplifier at all


----------



## twister6

Whitigir said:


> Unless @twister6 has his dx300 damaged as well by connecting to the C9, then they need to check it out.  I have used Dx300 line out with C9 and I am fine.  So do others.
> 
> I can not think of any specific instances where any working amplifier can damage the source ? Unless using bad cables, which would damage both.



Nothing is damaged, except for almost damaging my ears after I forgot to switch back to PO from LO after using DX300 w/C9 and plugging in IEMs the next day


----------



## Whitigir

twister6 said:


> Nothing is damaged, except for almost damaging my ears after I forgot to switch back to PO from LO after using DX300 w/C9 and plugging in IEMs the next day


Same here LOL... that damn Neutron auto play on plugged detection


----------



## Andykong

Shecky504 said:


> Well, I received a replacement amp for my DX300 last week and all was back to normal using my C9 with 4.4mm balanced output. Until today  The same issue occurred where the amp is blown again. @Andykong Any thoughts on what keeps blowing the DX300 amp? I am using the DX300 in High Gain using Line Out to a Cayin C9 in High Gain on 4.4mm balanced output and after 1 week the DX300 amp sounds blown and unusable. I may be forced to sell my C9 unfortunately since the DX300 is my daily driver.





Whitigir said:


> I repeat this again, the C9 is an amplifier.  It *CAN NOT Damage the source*.  If any potential problems, you will be able to tell right away
> 
> 1/ If the source is too powerful, the C9 will clip and distort.
> 
> ...





twister6 said:


> Maybe a good time for Andy to step in with his take on this.



My limited technical understanding agree with Whitigir, I can't think of any scenario that an amplifier can damage its source equipment when there is no feedback loop in the signal path.  The fact that Shecky504 can used his DX300 with C9 for several days also ruled out a short circuit problem in C9.  If the C9 is having a short circuit when connected to his DX300, it shouldn't last beyond 10 minutes.

We have borrowed a set of DX300 and conduct some test in our factory after we received Shecky502's email complaint.  So far our testing set is working perfectly alright.  Will report after we have complete our test.


----------



## Shecky504

Andykong said:


> My limited technical understanding agree with Whitigir, I can't think of any scenario that an amplifier can damage its source equipment when there is no feedback loop in the signal path.  The fact that Shecky504 can used his DX300 with C9 for several days also ruled out a short circuit problem in C9.  If the C9 is having a short circuit when connected to his DX300, it shouldn't last beyond 10 minutes.
> 
> We have borrowed a set of DX300 and conduct some test in our factory after we received Shecky502's email complaint.  So far our testing set is working perfectly alright.  Will report after we have complete our test.


Thanks, Andy. Please make sure to test with the DX300 in High Gain as well as the C9 in High Gain. I use line out on the DX300 with volume set to 100.


----------



## Shawnb

zen87192 said:


> May I ask if someone could give their views on these 4.4mm to 4.4mm  interconnects to connect a C9 to an N6ii A02 please? Not many to choose from out there unless one custom makes them which then gets very expensive. if you have any recommendations of your own please let me know. Thanks for your time.
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/penon-totem-audio-cable.html
> 
> ...



Im looking at Eletech Iliad interconnects for when I get the C9. May be a bit more then you want to spend 
Not out yet so give to contact them directly.


----------



## MarkParity

Does the DX300's AMP11 module implement the ground internally? Is the ground done properly, if it isn't that may be the cause of the issue. 

A similar thing happens with the e1da 9038s it has no ground at all as it uses a 2.5mm TRRS connector. Some users have connected theirs to an amplifier and damaged the output stage, as there is no ground some large stray voltages can occur there is nowhere for them to go, some op-amps just don't like that and let out the magic audio smoke.


----------



## DarginMahkum (Mar 8, 2021)

Review (Chinese):
https://post.smzdm.com/p/a7do3qmo/

With Google translate:
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=https://post.smzdm.com/p/a7do3qmo/

*III. Sound overview

1. Power*
I think that for an headphone amplifier, power is definitely one of the most important issues to be discussed.

The power level of the C9 is, in my opinion, one of the top amplification levels in the field of portable devices. Even when compared to many regular desktop headphone amplifiers in the thousands price range, it is no less impressive.

The C9 can drive any earbud to its highest level of sound basically perfectly; most big headphones can play their sound level and characteristics normally and stably under the C9's drive; and for some flagship big headphones that are very difficult to drive, the C9 can also guarantee to drive them to a relatively good sound state.

I think that basically, the C9's driving ability can probably reach the level of a medium level desktop headphone amplifier amplifier. For many audiophiles, this kind of driving ability is basically enough to meet most of the needs.

*2. Sound*
The power is actually more of a general framework and a conceptual outline, and it is natural to evaluate a device by its sound performance.

The C9 gives me the most intuitive feeling that it has a strong power framework, but also has a sense of sound stability, layering and a unique sense of rhythm.

The C9's sound is very stable, balanced, supple and natural, and does not become extreme, distorted or distorted. To use an analogy, it's like a football player running at high speed and still being able to control the football with agility and ease. This is why the C9's sound gives a sense of weightlessness, or "control" as we often call it.

In terms of layering, the C9's sound is not only layered in terms of spatial position, but also in terms of the differences between the various levels of pitch and timbre. Normally, in a high drive state, the pitch of the sound elements tends to rise and the timbre tends to homogenise in a more intense state. The C9, on the other hand, unfolds the sound methodically, giving it more variety and differentiation to better express the senses and state of the music.

The sense of rhythm is more the Cayin's forte. I found the C9 to be somewhat more restrained in its sense of flavour. Compared to the more mellow, warm flavour of the Cayin portable players, the C9 is more balanced and relaxed while maintaining the same gentle, moist style. It should be said that the C9 somehow tweaks the Cayin's more traditional tuning flavour to a certain extent, making the sound more subdued and listenable.

And if compared to most other portable headphone amplifiers on the market, the C9 still has a warmer, relaxed sound with a bit of colouring that makes the sound more musical and gives the C9 a wider range of compatibility in terms of sound style.

*3. Matching*
In terms of front-end pairing, I think we should try to pair the C9 with a player or decoder that has a high quality of decoding capability as a front-end, because the C9 is basically an "end" amplifier in the on-the-go segment, and a front-end with a high quality of decoding capability is the best way to make the best use of its capabilities. As far as the players I've tried to pair with it, I think the R8 is an ideal combination, while the Cayin N8 and N6ii are two players that work well as a "suit combo", and all other DAP at $10K (RMB) or above will offer very good result when paired with C9.

Of course the N6ii's preamp output connected to the C9's pure power amp mode is a rather interesting way to play, so if you're interested you could try it out.

In terms of headphones, I think the C9 will work with most big headphones. At least from a driving point of view, the C9 can drive most big headphones to a more normal working condition, even the flagship level big headphones or some headphones that are known to be difficult to drive.

The IEMs are the most surprising aspect of the C9; the C9 is very compatible with IEMs, and often those that are easy to "drive through" are driven by the C9 in a measured, well-organised manner, with no over-reaction or distortion at all, allowing the IEMs to be driven at a higher level without being affected by the sound. The sound is very stable and natural.

The C9 is a great way to hear the true strength and potential of some of the "hard to drive" IEMs and some of the high resistance flat headphones.

*4. Modes*
The headphone amplifier panel has a couple of selective hardware buttons to switch between various modes of operation. I briefly compared them.

The difference between high and low gain modes can basically be seen as a level adjustment switch. In high gain mode, the drive is a little more powerful, but the sound is also slightly more fidgety; in low gain mode, the drive output is smaller, while the sound is a little more delicate. The overall framework and stability of the sound is basically the same in both modes, but there are only differences in the drive and detail of the sound, which can be switched depending on the different headphones.

The tube - transistor mode, the two mainly in the fullness of sound and tone differences, because the issue of bile and stone amplification in the HiFi field belongs to the debate for decades, I naturally can not presume to say the advantages and disadvantages. I just think that, similar to most audiophiles, the sound in tube mode is more warm and delicate, while the sound in transistor mode is more balanced and atmospheric. Of course, for me, I prefer the C9's tubes because, on the one hand, the use of tubes is still relatively rare in the portable world and such a sound is rare; on the other hand, I find the C9's tubes more listenable with most headphones.

In terms of amplification categories, I don't think there is much difference between Class A and Class AB in terms of my intuition. However, I do feel that the output of the Class A amplifiers is a bit greater.

As for the pure post-amp mode, I experimented with the N6ii and found it quite interesting, but I don't have any other suitable pre-amp outputs on hand, so I won't go into too much detail.

*IV. Headphone adaptation experience*
For a long time, we have almost been accustomed to the idea that large headphones need to be paired with a desktop computer for normal sound effects, plus the structure of the large headphones themselves, and not suitable for use on the street, so it has not been looked at with portable systems to drive. In recent years, as players have gradually 'expanded', audiophiles have begun to experiment with using their Walkmans to drive big headphones, and although some progress has been made and initial results have been achieved, in the general sense that they can be considered 'listenable', there is still a certain amount of difference between the real power of these big headphones and the real power of these headphones. The C9 is a portable amplifier of this "ultimate experience" level, but how does it perform with big headphones? We have selected a few big headphones from different brands that are representative of the C9.

*Sennheiser HD600 (old version)*
I do not need to elaborate on the classic degree of this headset, it can be said that to a certain extent represents an era of big headphones, that solid, heavy, very hall sound can be said to be rooted in the minds of many enthusiasts a sound symbol and brand taste. Of course, the HD600 is actually a not too easy to "serve" headphones, the lack of power is often the result of too "warm, muddy" sound state, and even the sense of field can be confusing. To a large extent, this is also a common problem with HD600s driven by Walkmans and even some entry-level desktop units.

With the Cayin C9, the HD600 (balanced on the original line) has a neutral and stable sound, retaining the HD600's own thick, warm flavour, but with the same transparent and detailed sound quality and condition. Take my familiar Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto No. 1 (Richter version) as an example, usually when I listen to this piece with the HD600, I tend to feel that the intensity and spectacle is more than enough and the detail is not enough, and it is slightly confusing, it will feel more like a symphony than a steel concerto, the piano sound is to some extent covered up within the overall sound, while the HD600 under the C9 drive has obvious The HD600 with the C9 driver has a markedly improved and enhanced sound, with the piano, violin and wind sections being well organised in terms of priority and position, and with a detailed and transparent sound quality that has a very clear overall enhancement and musical expression.

(...)

The C9 brings us a sense of experience not only in the realm of large headphones, but also in the pairing of IEMs. In recent years, as technology and materials in the field of Walkman have been updated and developed, the demand for more and more power from the front end of the IEMs has been increasing. The traditional idea that "just any plug will do" has been broken and the driving performance of more and more earbud products is being more and more recognized and considered.

*Etymotic Research ER4S*
I am putting the ER4S here because I personally love these plugs so much. In the early days, there was a saying that "if you drive the Little Four well, the plug will end up in your head". Of course, this is a joke because the level and number of high-end IEMs in the early years were not of the same standard and scale as they are now, but on the other hand, it does reflect that the ceiling of the ER4 is very high. As a devoted "Little Four enthusiast", I have tossed around half a dozen ER4s and studied each version very carefully before finally choosing this one, the ER4S version, which is "both aggressive and defensible".

In fact, many people have a big misconception about the ER4, that is, the ER4 headphones "good" standard is to drive out the low frequency, I have used a number of bench test, in fact, the ER4 drive good standard is not low frequency, but more loose and solid sound line, unlike many headphones, the ER4 plug drive the better, the more stable and proper sound.

The ER4S driven by the C9, the sound is more obvious to show such texture and trend, the midrange has a certain thickness and higher density, and the sound is no longer the usual state of the straightforward, but more become soft, coupled with the electronic tube mode, the sense of sound line also shows a softening trend, so that the expression of the music is more rich in a sense of content. Especially with the C9 driving, the soundstage space of the ER4 opens up abruptly and is not inferior to that of many flagship IEMs, with clear architecture and spatial transparency. It's fair to say that the ER4 has been transformed by the C9, taking this legendary earbud to the next level.

*Oriolus Percivali*
The Oriolus Percivali is an earbud with multiple unit types, a combination of moving coil, moving iron and electrostatic units, and a flagship earbud with high sound quality and high tuning standards. To match and drive such a headphone is a comprehensive consideration of the headphone amplifier amplifier, which has to show a high level of quality and tuning, and at the same time make the sound of each unit type harmonious and compatible, which can be a very difficult match.

In fact, the C9 and the Oriole are a satisfactory match. Firstly, the C9 guarantees the quality and sound level of the Oriole to the greatest extent possible, while allowing the details and flavour of the Oriole to come through in their original form. At the same time, thanks to the driving effect of the C9, the sound framework of the Oriolus Percivali is richer and more three-dimensional, with a more pronounced sense of sound lines. While the potential of the electrostatic and moving coil units is further exploited, the moving iron units do not show any distortion or intensification of sound. Such a mutual unity of power and control is difficult to achieve with an headphone amplifier product. Although we don't normally think of the Oriole as a particularly demanding earbud, with the C9's drive and embellishment, the rhythm of these IEMs, which are renowned for their "rhythm", is further fermented and sublimated, making the sound more transparent and textured.

*High impedance flat IEMs*
In recent years, the high impedance flat head has developed considerably. This kind of earbud, which uses circuit impedance, diaphragm characteristics and targeted tuning as a way to exchange the driving force for sound stability and a sense of field, has gradually gained the recognition of many enthusiasts. I personally agree with this type of product, and this time I have chosen three of the more representative flat-head plugs to review the C9.

The Unyin PK1 is the originator of high resistance IEMs and has been the benchmark and living fossil of flathead IEMs for many years; the Micro Wing zen 2.0 is a super high impedance earbud with 320 ohms; and the Suns 01bu series is actually the most difficult flathead earbud to drive well, although the impedance is only about a hundred ohms. These IEMs have a lot in common in terms of sound, so let's also unite them together.

When underdriven, these flatheads tend to have a relatively dark, muffled sound, and when the soundstage and dynamics don't work, the overall frame of the sound is a little out of shape. If driven by a flagship portable player, the sound is basically at a normal level, but the vibrancy and looseness is noticeably lacking, and the sound can be relatively dull and flat.

With the C9 driving these high-resistance flathead plugs, the sense of frame is further extended and enhanced compared to the flagship Walkman, and the sense of space and force of the sound, as well as the overall layout, is basically primed to reach the level of the big headphones, with a distinct sense of deconfusion and naturalness. At the same time, the sound is much more complete, with much of the content and detail that would have been passed over with insufficient power clearly revealed in the musical context, while the sound has a sense of colour and light, with a significant increase in brightness, essentially achieving the optimum effect expected when the headphones were designed.

Both the lines and timbre of the violin concerto and the grand scenes and majesty of the symphony are clearly and fully expressed, and even in some vocal and pop-like instrumental interpretations, they are highly adaptable and unique.

In fact, there are many other headphones in the review that, in general, have achieved more than satisfactory driving results in terms of drive, control, tonal harmony and tuning relevance. The C9's control and the quality of the sound, especially on the more "driveable" headphones, are what make this amplifier such a surprise. Due to space constraints, I can't go into all the details.

*V. Overall evaluation*
The Cayin C9 is an headphone amplifier with a high level of design and sound quality. In terms of drive, control and compatibility, it can be said that it is a leader in the long history of portable headphone amplifiers. Of course, when compared to a $10,000 desktop amplifier, the C9 does still fall short to a certain extent, mainly in terms of energy and stability. Of course, this is not a fair comparison in itself, so we don't need to force it.

At the same time, the C9 has excellent control and compatibility, not only for those "hard to drive" headphones with a better level of drive, but also for most conventional headphones, with a high degree of compatibility, not because of excessive drive intensity that causes distortion and distortion of the sound of conventional headphones, but also to allow these headphones to achieve a better sound quality in a more stable performance.

The Cayin C9 also incorporates a lot of unique rhythmic understanding and tuning in the processing of the sound, with its gentle, loose sound style that is both traditional to Cayin, but also has a lot of breakthroughs and innovations, making the equipment have a unique musical sense of expression. This is something that even many straightforward sounding desktop headphones cannot offer.

For the C9, I think it is a great upgrade device for many audiophiles. The C9 is the best choice to break through the bottleneck of the existing portable system, especially for those who have a certain level of player and headphones, and it is the most intuitive, realistic and profitable aspect in terms of sound quality. The C9 is also a classic way to revisit the years of an old enthusiast who has come all the way from the bundle era.

Judging by the current state of the overall technology and market in the on-the-go sector, the C9 is also a once-and-for-all way to listen with peace of mind for many years without needing to upgrade. Even players can seek further breakthroughs and their preferred sound by replacing the originals themselves.

However, it has to be said that the C9 is a more user-specific device, preferring to be a device that breaks the bottleneck further upwards after other devices have reached a certain height. If the level of equipment at the front and back of the system is limited, then the C9 will be able to play a certain amount of space and role, so I think the C9 is still more suitable for players with some audiophile experience and a comparable level of supporting equipment to use, in order to maximize the effect.

*VI. New*
Over the years, the standard of Walkman players has gotten higher and higher, and the sound has gotten better and more sophisticated. I should say that I feel that audiophiles are now happy to be in an era of such surging development, where audiophiles feel the rapid development of the on-the-go HiFi field day by day and are able to get better sound more easily.

However, if I look at it from my perspective, in the direction of the longitudinal development, I think that today's audiophiles are also unfortunate, because the convergence of player products towards smart platforms has led to a convergence; and the introduction of more and more elements into the field of on-the-go HiFi has also started to distract audiophiles from even putting sound and music in the most important psychological position.

Of course this can't be said to be a problem for audiophiles; audio platforms, multimedia sharing, intelligent operation and full-screen interfaces are elements that were originally good things and are the general trend in this industry and in this field. As one of them, we are of course following the times and trends, and once again going for our true pursuit and purpose in this general context.

Therefore, I think the "purity" that Cayin C9 is proposing this time is particularly meaningful. It is not only the purity of sound that we seek in the C9 headphones, but also the purity of HiFi, the purity of our search for a moment of inner peace in music, the purity of our emotional communication, the purity of the C9 headphones for us, not only the breakthrough we seek in sound, but also the emotion and trust we put into sound and music.

The headphone amplifiers and the bundled portable playback system seem to be a "nostalgic" sentiment, but in fact they are a new breakthrough and expectation in a new environment and era, a milestone and a wake-up call for us to regain our originality and go on the road again.

If we understand the true meaning of the Cayin C9 and project this traditional "HiFi" approach into the new era, we will understand the true meaning of this "purity".


----------



## Andykong

Shecky504 said:


> Thanks, Andy. Please make sure to test with the DX300 in High Gain as well as the C9 in High Gain. I use line out on the DX300 with volume set to 100.


I thought we have clarified that this is not recommended for DX300, so we have intentionally skipped this setting.  The high gain balanced line out of DX300 is rated at 8V, while the de facto line out in audio industry is 4V to 4.4V.


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 8, 2021)

According to the sheets here, the C9 input sensitivity is 6V max for balanced in where the Dx300 is listing @ 7.1V maximum.

There were some user mentioning that the C9 was clipping and distorted previously before Andy and others have agreed that the powerful line out voltage was triggering the distortions






brannigan said:


> Just managed to take delivery of a brand new C9. Paired with my ibasso dx300 in LO mode. I do see that there is an underlying scratching sound across all tracks. I did try both tidal on Android and mango os on the ibasso. The c9 is linked to the Sony ier-z1r. Am I hearing amplified artefacts in the track itself or is it the c9 that’s faulty?





jmills8 said:


> Its not the amp.





brannigan said:


> Thanks. I do see that once I changed the ibasso line out to Low gain mode the problem seemed to disappear.





Andykong said:


> Did you set C9 to high gain?
> 
> DX300 line out is 3V Single ended and 6V Balanced at High gain, this is significantly higher than industrial standard 2V Single ended  and 4V Balanced.   When you use High gain line out of DX300, you need to set C9 to low gain, but when you use low gain line out of DX300, you can set to either low gain or high gain.





bluestorm1992 said:


> I was testing the pairing of Hugo 2 and C9. Hugo 2 does not have a true line-out function, so I have to use its regular headphone output as the source to C9. When C9 is set to the line-in mode, I can hear small distortions here and there. Changing the mode to Pre-amp eliminates the issue.
> 
> I think someone mentioned a similar problem earlier with other DAPs that do not have a true line-out, and the solution was to change the gain level of C9. However, this does not really apply in my case since I am doing the test with Diana V2, which has to be driven in high gain.
> 
> In short, if the DAP does not have a true line-out function and you need power from it, C9's Pre-amp mode is a better choice.


----------



## Shawnb

So just to confirm before I order some interconnects, they do not need to be grounded?


----------



## Whitigir

Shawnb said:


> So just to confirm before I order some interconnects, they do not need to be grounded?


That is correct!  I am using mine none grounded.  The 4.4-4.4 stock that comes with the C9 is Non grounded


----------



## Shawnb

Whitigir said:


> That is correct!  I am using mine none grounded.  The 4.4-4.4 stock that comes with the C9 is Non grounded



Thanks! Saves me a few dollars on the cable


----------



## Andykong

zen87192 said:


> Thankfully I ordered a Battery Charger at the same time so 'rolling' Batteries will be 'hot swappable'
> I will see how the C9 acts without screws to the battery tray as I'm concerned about easy disconnection if moved slightly. Not sure if it clicks into place initially giving one level of security but will judge this when received. Otherwise, one screw will suffice whilst listening to all batteries. Now looking at 4.4mm Balanced Interconnects....



Officially, I have to tell you that you need to apply the screws as described in the user manual. TBH, when I audition my C9 with different batteries, I put the C9 flat on table without the screws and they are fairly secured, but when you put the C9 in vertical placement, or when you hold the C9 and walking around while listening, the mounting screws are definitely necessary.


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> That is correct.  I also think that they are regulated to 8.4V rails by the battery tray before feeding into the amp....
> 
> So theoretically speaking, if the battery tray is what it is.  Then Cayin can make an AC battery tray which consists of bare minimum circuitry for external regulated DC intake.
> 
> ...





zen87192 said:


> oooo.... that would be nice.... L-PSU linked to a purpose made battery insert to the C9.... Yes please.... Andy?



I suppose you know the answer, but I'll make your day.  

We don't have any plan to design or produce an AC module to replace the C9 battery tray.


----------



## Andykong

Lu88 said:


> Hi @Andykong ,
> It says "Balanced Portable Interconnect CS-44C44 (4.4 to 4.4 with GND)" on the C9 product page below. (in "What's in the BOX?" section at the bottom)
> https://en.cayin.cn/products_info?itemid=135
> 
> ...



Correct, we make a mistake in our description, we'll correct that ASAP.

The 4.4mm sockets (both input and output) of C9 are grounded, but the supplied CS-44C44 short interconnect is not grounded.

Sorry for our mistakes and we apology for all the inconvenience caused.


----------



## Andykong

CANiSLAYu said:


> Hello, I’m getting read to pull the trigger on the C9, but have some questions about how I intend to use it and what’s the best setting, etc.
> 
> Desktop: I have a Topping D90/A90 stack connected via XLR. I believe I could have two options: 1) D90 RCA output to C9 3.5mm input and use C9 in line mode, then volume controlled on C9. 2) A90 XLR preamp output to C9 4.4mm input in Pre mode, then volume is controlled on A90.  Are both of those correct? Would one be better than the other in terms of sound quality?
> 
> ...



Once again, please DO NOT use phone output of desktop headphone amplifier as source to C9  Pre-amp input mode.  We must remember the basic different between pre-amp output and phone output.  Pre-amp output is by definition voltage gain without current gain.  You likely will end up with a lot of background noise or even distortion if you use high-power phone output here. 

I'll quote my own explanation regarding *Phone out as Pre-out**:*


> *
> If your DAP don’t have line out option*, that will limited your option to upgrade your system though an outboard headphone amplifier, using phone out as pre-out is probably the best bet. Theoretically, that should be better than turning the volume to maximum and use it as line out because you are operating your DAP at a lower distortion level and SNR. On the other hand, since pre-amp output is by definition voltage gain without current gain from line out, so phone output with smaller current gain will likely perform better than phone output with higher current gain; a phone out with lower output will likely work better then phone out with beefy output. The Sony WM1Z and WM1A probably is one of the best example of this scenario, please refer to Headphonic C9 review (https://headfonics.com/cayin-c9-review/3/) for more detail about this combination.



In other word, only DAP phone output with relatively "smaller" current gain can be used as a substitution to Pre-amp input.  If some of the DAP phone output are consider too beefy for this application, then we can almost certain that the phone out of desktop headphone amplifier is not going to work.


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> Now I can carry the C9+A02 stack with me wherever I want.  There are a couple keys that I want to confirm
> 
> *With HeatSinks 4X and Class AB Solid State*
> 
> ...



I am kind of worry that the zipper will scratch the C9 chassis when you put it in or take it out of the pocket. 

The amazon link suggested that this is a leg bag, which mean you can wear the bag on your waist, and then tie the lower belt of the bag around your leg.  I assume this is not a good design for cycling but if someone want to use it for hiking or when you want to left both hand (and shoulder) available while jogging, a leg bag that warp around your waist maybe a good idea.  By the way, my leg bag (photo below" is bigger than yours, suddenly I feel proud.


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I checked with our Engineers, the SE to BAL conversion circuit is designed to work with the input detection mechanism.  C9 will detect whether you have inserted 3.5mm or 4.4mm connectors as input and output, and invoke appropriate conversion when needed.  The detection involves applying a very low level signal to the Ground contact area (for both input and output 4.4mm socket, that will be the Sleeve of TRRRS).  We cannot detect whether there is an active signal in L- or R- because that will involve applying a very low level signal to these two "rings" and this will introduce background noise that might be audible at low output level.  

For these reasons, we always assume the input signal is a balanced signal when we plug a 4.4mm connector into the balanced input of C9.  We cannot detect the absence of L- and R- signal and therefore cannot support a 3.5mm to 4.4mm adapter cable as C9 input properly.


----------



## Andykong

eskamobob1 said:


> Dead currious since im not the most knowledgeable about amp topology. If you significantly increase the discharge rate of the battery does the circuit just utilize the higher limit now? Or is there some form of current limit protection built in? Changing battery voltage is probably a missive no-go I would assume, but would you actualy get benefit in hard to drive panars from higher discharge batteries?
> 
> Also, there are a number of chemistries that give voltage output in the C9 designed range. Is your SOC calculation chemistry dependent (I would assume it is)?





eskamobob1 said:


> Correct. The only worry of damage would be if the battery its self was used as a limiter (which would be a piss poor design). My question was if we would even see any benefit.





eskamobob1 said:


> We are clearly talking past eachother. This is all else i will respond with for this topic. It is standard design practice to include current limiters when working with batteries to prevent overdrawing them. On top of this, tracing will be designed with certain voltage and current limits in mind. My question was simply if the c9 has limiters designed for the production cells that would get in the way of a higher discharge cell.




Theoretically, you can use the 18650 battery as a limiter if you use protected version battery, but since C9 use unprotected version of 18650, we have to develop our own version of current limiter for safety consideration.  The current limiter is a fixed ampere design applied to all impedance loading, and when the output current has exceed this value, we will disconnect the amplifier circuit from the power supply subsystem.

The detail parameters are consider internal design detail, we don't have any plan to disclose such detail to public.


----------



## Lu88

Andykong said:


> Correct, we make a mistake in our description, we'll correct that ASAP.
> 
> The 4.4mm sockets (both input and output) of C9 are grounded, but the supplied CS-44C44 short interconnect is not grounded.
> 
> Sorry for our mistakes and we apology for all the inconvenience caused.


Thanks for the clarification. The 4.4mm socket on my DAP is also grounded, so I'll try a grounded interconnect.

(I'm waiting for the Eletech Socrates IC 4.4 to 4.4 with GND to be delivered.)


----------



## zen87192

By the looks of things I may have to revert to something like this as a travel bag/portable listening option.
Has the space, not massive, and I can also pack for all IC's, Batteries, Charger, IEM's with the C9 and DAP when going away. Sorry.... going well off thread with talks of bags/luggage.


----------



## Whitigir

Andykong said:


> I checked with our Engineers, the SE to BAL conversion circuit is designed to work with the input detection mechanism.  C9 will detect whether you have inserted 3.5mm or 4.4mm connectors as input and output, and invoke appropriate conversion when needed.  The detection involves applying a very low level signal to the Ground contact area (for both input and output 4.4mm socket, that will be the Sleeve of TRRRS).  We cannot detect whether there is an active signal in L- or R- because that will involve applying a very low level signal to these two "rings" and this will introduce background noise that might be audible at low output level.
> 
> For these reasons, we always assume the input signal is a balanced signal when we plug a 4.4mm connector into the balanced input of C9.  We cannot detect the absence of L- and R- signal and therefore cannot support a 3.5mm to 4.4mm adapter cable as C9 input properly.


Thank you very much for your confirmations


----------



## Whitigir

Andykong said:


> Correct, we make a mistake in our description, we'll correct that ASAP.
> 
> The 4.4mm sockets (both input and output) of C9 are grounded, but the supplied CS-44C44 short interconnect is not grounded.
> 
> Sorry for our mistakes and we apology for all the inconvenience caused.


I actually do not think the ground on the output 4.4mm is grounded.  The input definitely do.

A02 is also grounded on both output


----------



## Andykong

zen87192 said:


> Hi Andy,
> would you mind expanding on how the Battery operation regarding Ampage discharge and any internal C9 protections and limiters that are in place work please?





eskamobob1 said:


> Dead honest, with the operating voltages at play here, I suspect it was pretty easy for them to just size traces and components enough it is a non-issue. 35A discharge is already massive for the 18650 formfactor (given most 18650 cells are ~3.7V nominal and 4.3V max to keep interchangeability a bit higher). If it handes those dont realy worry about it. Its just nice to have explicet confirmation when possible. By the timer higher discharge sources with adequate lifecycles are avaible we will probably be wanting a different amp anyways



Will *THIS *serve your purpose?  

There are always new battery technologies round the corners, we get that every month at the end of 6 o'clock news or gadget magazines.   Unfortunately these reports only looks at new technologies at laboratory level.   It will take ages for any of these technologies to become feasible for mass production, and take forever before it can be certified to use at consumer level such as flight, hospital, or mass transit system. I remember when I join Cayin back in 2015, fuel cell was a hot topic and it was supposed to be  "round the corner".  The question is, do you think there will be a  battery-tray based fuel-cell portable headphone amplifier  when you "wanting a different amp"?


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> According to the sheets here, the C9 input sensitivity is 6V max for balanced in where the Dx300 is listing @ 7.1V maximum.
> 
> There were some user mentioning that the C9 was clipping and distorted previously before Andy and others have agreed that the powerful line out voltage was triggering the distortions


 
Did iBasso stated the output level of DX300 line out in their specification?  Someone said upto 8V, and you have quoted 7.1V maximum.


----------



## Whitigir

Andykong said:


> Did iBasso stated the output level of DX300 line out in their specification?  Someone said upto 8V, and you have quoted 7.1V maximum.


Yes, it is stated in their user manual pdf


----------



## twister6

Lu88 said:


> Thanks for the clarification. The 4.4mm socket on my DAP is also grounded, so I'll try a grounded interconnect.
> 
> (I'm waiting for the Eletech Socrates IC 4.4 to 4.4 with GND to be delivered.)



and speaking of that, @Eric Chong just posted a few teasers of Eletech upcoming IC cables and leather storage cases.  I think it will be perfect to match some of your man-purses   Actually, it is kind of fascinating that their new product was driven by the demand from C9 owners.


----------



## Whitigir

twister6 said:


> and speaking of that, @Eric Chong just posted a few teasers of Eletech upcoming IC cables and leather storage cases.  I think it will be perfect to match some of your man-purses   Actually, it is kind of fascinating that their new product was driven by the demand from C9 owners.


Let me guess, the one up top is grounded, which is one single wire running from Sleeve to sleeve (ground) and not a complete (right shield  ), because I counted 5 wires.  The one below is non grounded


----------



## twister6

Whitigir said:


> Let me guess, the one up top is grounded, which is one single wire running from Sleeve to sleeve (ground) and not a complete (right shield  ), because I counted 5 wires.  The one below is non grounded



Yes, I think he mentioned before that top one, their flagship Iliad cable, will use 6 conductors and the ground between Pentaconn plugs will be interconnected.  Will it make any perceived difference in sound?  I don't know, can't tell without having the identical setup with the same IC wires where one is grounded and another one is not.


----------



## zen87192

I'm a bit confused. Should I be buying grounded IC's or ungrounded IC's.
I see both being purchased or recommended.
Thick person (within electronic topology) making this question I'm afraid... sorry.


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> A bad cables with L+ and R+ shorted would possibly be damaging the Dx300 amp....but that it would also damage the C9....and you wouldn’t be hearing music lol
> Common mistakes happened when L- and R- are shorted to ground because the user mistakenly plugged Balanced out into a cables that has single ended end.  But this can not happen on Dx300 stock amp as the Dx300 can differentiate and enable SE line out
> 
> **I never seen L+ and R+ to be shorted, unless possibly some mistake in DIY cables that wired 2.5mm into 3.5 mm under a wrong polarities** ? That would be some thing very special and unique instances though
> ...



I did come across a short circuit between R- and GND of 4.4mm connectors back in January. A tour reviewer didn't push in his 4.4mm phone jack into the amplifier completely, so R- ring of the headphone jack get into contacted with the GND sleeve of the 4.4mm socket. the amplifier last for 5 minutes and he can hear distortion after that, and the a complete dark out.

I am still trying to figure out the consequence of "C9 is grounding the negative side of the balanced circuit".  Unfortunately my ignorance limited my imagination.


----------



## RTodd

Andykong said:


> I did come across a short circuit between R- and GND of 4.4mm connectors back in January. A tour reviewer didn't push in his 4.4mm phone jack into the amplifier completely, so R- ring of the headphone jack get into contacted with the GND sleeve of the 4.4mm socket. the amplifier last for 5 minutes and he can hear distortion after that, and the a complete dark out.
> 
> I am still trying to figure out the consequence of "C9 is grounding the negative side of the balanced circuit".  Unfortunately my ignorance limited my imagination.


I was wondering about that, sounds like it could be the culprit to me.


----------



## Shawnb

zen87192 said:


> I'm a bit confused. Should I be buying grounded IC's or ungrounded IC's.
> I see both being purchased or recommended.
> Thick person (within electronic topology) making this question I'm afraid... sorry.



Sane confusion here. Not sure what to buy either.


----------



## Whitigir

twister6 said:


> Yes, I think he mentioned before that top one, their flagship Iliad cable, will use 6 conductors and the ground between Pentaconn plugs will be interconnected.  Will it make any perceived difference in sound?  I don't know, can't tell without having the identical setup with the same IC wires where one is grounded and another one is not.


Yeah, that is only ground connection and not a Shield (Not a proper shield or the right shield)


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 8, 2021)

Andykong said:


> I did come across a short circuit between R- and GND of 4.4mm connectors back in January. A tour reviewer didn't push in his 4.4mm phone jack into the amplifier completely, so R- ring of the headphone jack get into contacted with the GND sleeve of the 4.4mm socket. the amplifier last for 5 minutes and he can hear distortion after that, and the a complete dark out.
> 
> I am still trying to figure out the consequence of "C9 is grounding the negative side of the balanced circuit".  Unfortunately my ignorance limited my imagination.


Yes, when not pushed in far enough, the R- can be shorted to ground.  Thus will definitely burn out the Opamp buffer on the Dx300 side.  But then, this will fall under “user errors” rather than the faults of either devices

Now I am curious if the C9 would also be damaged as well


----------



## MarkParity

Whitigir said:


> Yes, when not pushed in far enough, the R- can be shorted to ground.  Thus will definitely burn out the Opamp buffer on the Dx300 side.  But then, this will fall under “user errors” rather than the faults of either devices


That is an expensive "user error" for the price of these items I would expect some kind of output protection. If the output of the DX300 isn't protected then I would recommend that nobody uses it with an external amp at least with AMP 11 anyway, the risk is simply too large.


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 8, 2021)

MarkParity said:


> That is an expensive "user error" for the price of these items I would expect some kind of output protection. If the output of the DX300 isn't protected then I would recommend that nobody uses it with an external amp at least with AMP 11 anyway, the risk is simply too large.


To be fair, I have not Seen any amps that have protection circuits in output/input stages (for the shorts problems).  The most it has would be plug detections.  Both the Dx300 and C9 has built in plug detections.  It would take some special kind of 4.4mm plugs to trigger the plug detection circuit to enable the Amplifier circuitry.  I have used different plugs, and the one so far that I have had problem with would be Eidolic 4.4mm plugs.

This is one of the protective mechanisms for these 4.4mm plugs.  It turns off the circuitry when plugs are not detected.  For any good 4.4mm plugs, you can’t enable the plug detectors to turns on when it isn’t fully plugged in

However, this is the nature of 4.4mm, hence there are people who is not really into 4.4mm yet.  It is definitely better than 3.5mm balanced or 3.5mm pro.....but for a proper balanced connections, it should really be XLR or mini XLR or, LEMO, or Amphenol


----------



## Andykong

DarginMahkum said:


> Review (Chinese):
> https://post.smzdm.com/p/a7do3qmo/
> 
> With Google translate:
> ...



Thank you for sharing the C9 review from smzdm.com, I read the Chinese version directly.  The Google translation is kind of  .... misleading.  I'll just add a few remarks here to avoid readers getting confused and give up immediately.


earphone = headphone amplifier 
_This is the biggest mistake that appear all over the translation, for example, the first sentence of Section 3.1 should read" I think that for an *headphone amplifier*, output power is definitely one of the most important issues to be discussed."_

earbuds = IEM

flat earbud = flat head = earbud
big headphones = full size headphones
The sense of rhythm or rhythmic = timbre ??
(C9 still has a warmer) looser sound = relax sound
 high level of decoding = high quality of decoding
"end" amplifier = "endgame" amplifier
and I don't need to say anything about the other players = all other DAP at $10K (RMB) or above will offer very good result when paired with C9
C9's pure reamp = C9 pure power amp mode
pushing/push = driving/drive
solid keys =hardware buttons
ToneMed ER4S = Etymotic Research ER4S
The Old Man's Oriole or Mountain Oriole = Oriolus Percivali
vertical axis of time development = longitudinal development


----------



## DaYooper

Good thing for me it's too late for reviews, already ordered. I wouldn't want to be any more confused than my natural state.  Just not sure when it will arrive?


----------



## xand

DaYooper said:


> Good thing for me it's too late for reviews, already ordered. I wouldn't want to be any more confused than my natural state.  Just not sure when it will arrive?



Hmm so you have the C9 and the HA-6A.. You just need the HA300 and you'll have caught them all (for the moment)...


----------



## DarginMahkum

Andykong said:


> Thank you for sharing the C9 review from smzdm.com, I read the Chinese version directly.  The Google translation is kind of  .... misleading.  I'll just add a few remarks here to avoid readers getting confused and give up immediately.
> 
> 
> earphone = headphone amplifier
> ...


Thanks Andy. I did the corrections - hopefully caught most of them.


----------



## Andykong

Shawnb said:


> So just to confirm before I order some interconnects, they do not need to be grounded?





zen87192 said:


> I'm a bit confused. Should I be buying grounded IC's or ungrounded IC's.
> I see both being purchased or recommended.
> Thick person (within electronic topology) making this question I'm afraid... sorry.



Need:  yes, they don't need to be grounded, both options CAN work fine for short interconnect with C9

Better: IMHO, grounding is NOT the deciding factor in selecting a short interconnect to meet your personal preference, you better start  your shortlisting from other criteria. 

IMHO, IMHO, IMHO.  This is the important part, so I'll repeat this three times.


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> I actually do not think the ground on the output 4.4mm is grounded.  The input definitely do.
> 
> A02 is also grounded on both output



The 4.4mm phone output of C9 is grounded.


----------



## DaYooper

xand said:


> Hmm so you have the C9 and the HA-6A.. You just need the HA300 and you'll have caught them all (for the moment)...


Would I be able to get the Showroom discount?


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> Yes, when not pushed in far enough, the R- can be shorted to ground.  Thus will definitely burn out the Opamp buffer on the Dx300 side.  But then, this will fall under “user errors” rather than the faults of either devices
> 
> Now I am curious if the C9 would also be damaged as well



Now we are getting somewhere. 
So this could be a problem when the 4.4mm connectors of our balanced short interconnect is having some problem with DX300 4.4mm output connector, making it "difficult" to plug in completely, and causing a short circuit in DX300?


----------



## Andykong

xand said:


> Hmm so you have the C9 and the HA-6A.. You just need the HA300 and you'll have caught them all (for the moment)...



Wander what will be his next step after that?  Buy a pair of speaker to fully utilize the HA-300, and then start to explore our tube speaker amplifiers?


----------



## zen87192

Andykong said:


> Need:  yes, they don't need to be grounded, both options CAN work fine for short interconnect with C9
> 
> Better: IMHO, grounding is NOT the deciding factor in selecting a short interconnect to meet your personal preference, you better start  your shortlisting from other criteria.
> 
> IMHO, IMHO, IMHO.  This is the important part, so I'll repeat this three times.


OK. Thank you.
They can be grounded but they don't need to be grounded....
Shortlisting from other criteria.... what may these be please?


----------



## Whitigir

Andykong said:


> Now we are getting somewhere.
> So this could be a problem when the 4.4mm connectors of our balanced short interconnect is having some problem with DX300 4.4mm output connector, making it "difficult" to plug in completely, and causing a short circuit in DX300?


Under these instances, it would be the plugs.  I have used many kinds of plugs 4.4mm.  But I only have such resistance to push in all the way with one kind, and that is Eidolic.

The stock 4.4-4.4 that comes with C9 has no such thing.  Unless intentionally


----------



## Andykong

zen87192 said:


> OK. Thank you.
> They can be grounded but they don't need to be grounded....
> Shortlisting from other criteria.... what may these be please?



Start talking to @Eric Chong


----------



## CANiSLAYu

Andykong said:


> Once again, please DO NOT use phone output of desktop headphone amplifier as source to C9  Pre-amp input mode.  We must remember the basic different between pre-amp output and phone output.  Pre-amp output is by definition voltage gain without current gain.  You likely will end up with a lot of background noise or even distortion if you use high-power phone output here.
> 
> I'll quote my own explanation regarding *Phone out as Pre-out**:*
> 
> ...


Hi Andy,

Just to confirm, I'm talking about using the XLR pre-amp outputs on the rear of the A90, not the headphone outputs in the front.  My understanding is the XLR pre-amp output is the same as the headphone out, but with an extra 40 ohm resistor.  Would this still not be suitable to use with C9 in Pre mode?  Thank you.


----------



## Whitigir

zen87192 said:


> OK. Thank you.
> They can be grounded but they don't need to be grounded....
> Shortlisting from other criteria.... what may these be please?


It will start out with “sound differences shielded vs non shielded interconnects”.

My preferences and hint is that, non shielded is preferable, and I am all for that soundstage, details extensions


----------



## DaYooper

xand said:


> Hmm so you have the C9 and the HA-6A.. You just need the HA300 and you'll have caught them all (for the moment)...


Uhm, come to think of it, wouldn't that be "double amp-ing"?


----------



## DaYooper

Andykong said:


> Wander what will be his next step after that?  Buy a pair of speaker to fully utilize the HA-300, and then start to explore our tube speaker amplifiers?


CONSPIRACIES!!


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 8, 2021)

Talk about End game interconnects.  This is end game for a friend ! Length is about 0.5m with TOTL OCC silver inner core Ultra Pure Gold plating Litz 37x Core for a total 26Awg per element.  Hakugei Titanium Copper Alloy Plugs.  Solder is SS-47 Oyaide

Why “End game” ? Because C9 is totally “End Game” portable amplifier IMO
May be going to make “properly shielding” Interconnects for another kind of End-Game.  So ATM, I have “Ultra flexible End game” and “Solid core Pure Gold conductor” end game, the last of it kind should be a properly shielded “end game” ? May be ? May be not lol


----------



## bigbeans

Whitigir said:


> Talk about End game interconnects.  This is end game for a friend ! Length is about 0.5m with TOTL OCC silver inner core Ultra Pure Gold plating Litz 37x Core for a total 26Awg per element.  Hakugei Titanium Copper Alloy Plugs
> 
> Why “End game” ? Because C9 is totally “End Game” portable amplifier IMO


Damn that's nice. You built this?


----------



## Whitigir

bigbeans said:


> Damn that's nice. You built this?


Thank you  , and yes sir!


----------



## DaYooper

Can you say "gorgeous"? Man, that is a thing of beauty.


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 8, 2021)

Adaptable ends 2.5mm to 4.4mm


----------



## DarginMahkum

Whitigir said:


> Adaptable ends 2.5mm to 4.4mm



Oh, nice. What connector (set) is this?


----------



## Whitigir

2 of my different kind of endgame IC


----------



## Marat Sar

Sooo... will this improve my sp2000 with iems? 

I'm sure it's been discussed here plenty of times, but I swear I used search and didn't find a good clear answer. I've had my sp2000 for a year now but I'm always looking to squeeze more SQ out of my chain -- and, also, I love stacks! I used to have a stack back in 2013 when I started with hifi (cayin c5 / fiio x3 -- loved that c5!) so I'm nostalgic to look like a mad scientist again...

But the question is: will it improve on the sp2000 soundstage and detail? Any sp2000 owners out there ready to share impressions?


----------



## aaf evo

Marat Sar said:


> Sooo... will this improve my sp2000 with iems?
> 
> I'm sure it's been discussed here plenty of times, but I swear I used search and didn't find a good clear answer. I've had my sp2000 for a year now but I'm always looking to squeeze more SQ out of my chain -- and, also, I love stacks! I used to have a stack back in 2013 when I started with hifi (cayin c5 / fiio x3 -- loved that c5!) so I'm nostalgic to look like a mad scientist again...
> 
> But the question is: will it improve on the sp2000 soundstage and detail? Any sp2000 owners out there ready to share impressions?



Taken directly from @twister6 review.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Mar 8, 2021)

Marat Sar said:


> Sooo... will this improve my sp2000 with iems?
> 
> I'm sure it's been discussed here plenty of times, but I swear I used search and didn't find a good clear answer. I've had my sp2000 for a year now but I'm always looking to squeeze more SQ out of my chain -- and, also, I love stacks! I used to have a stack back in 2013 when I started with hifi (cayin c5 / fiio x3 -- loved that c5!) so I'm nostalgic to look like a mad scientist again...
> 
> But the question is: will it improve on the sp2000 soundstage and detail? Any sp2000 owners out there ready to share impressions?


I believe @KickAssChewGum is the first user of SP2000 and C9 here, and he reports a significant improvement. I quote him:

“I received my C9 from Musicteck yesterday (thanks Andrew for awesome service as always!) and I am super impressed. Much more so than I was expecting to be, if I'm being honest.

A&K SP2000 Cu (set to 6v balanced line out) > Effect Audio AK 4.4mm adapter > Penon Totem 4.4mm Interconnect > Cayin C9 (set to AB Tube) > Empire Ears Odin + 4.4mm adapter = a religious experience - pretty much my ideal sound signature.”

"I’m in total agreement with this. I couldn’t believe the improvement with my SP2000 plugged into the C9 and absolutely wasn’t expecting it to be anywhere near as drastic as it is. I’d go as far to say that the C9 is actually the one component that I’ve ever bought that has the most significant effect on sound (for the better). I’m massively impressed by what Cayin have achieved here. The C9 has made me a Cayin devotee for life and it’s literally the first Cayin product I’ve ever bought. I cannot recommend the C9 enough!"


----------



## Whitigir

DarginMahkum said:


> Oh, nice. What connector (set) is this?


Hakugei Metal Titanium Copper Alloy


----------



## xand (Mar 8, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> The stock 4.4-4.4 that comes with C9 has no such thing.  Unless intentionally



I think it depends on familiarity with 4.4mm.

I've never used 4.4mm before the dx300/C9, and both me and a friend have unintentionally not fully plugged into (can't remember which but either the dx300 or c9) with the cayin interconnect.

Diagnosis wasn't hard though, because in each case there was no sound, and it hasn't caused a problem...

Now I know that more insertion force is required than for 3.5mm, and to check if the plug has been fully inserted.

*Edit*: @Andykong , I don't think the cayin interconnect is special in this regard, I've tried it with the three other 4.4mm plugs I have (two interconnect plugs, and the headphone plug, all provided by Ares Audio but visibly different), and while in terms of insertion pressure needed they're not absolutely identical they're similar enough that I expect the error mentioned above would have occurred.


----------



## Whitigir

xand said:


> I think it depends on familiarity with 4.4mm.
> 
> I've never used 4.4mm before the dx300/C9, and both me and a friend have unintentionally not fully plugged into (can't remember which but either the dx300 or c9) with the cayin interconnect.
> 
> ...


Yes, there wouldn’t be any sound by both or one channel.


----------



## Whitigir

Andykong said:


> Theoretically, you can use the 18650 battery as a limiter if you use protected version battery, but since C9 use unprotected version of 18650, we have to develop our own version of current limiter for safety consideration.  The current limiter is a fixed ampere design applied to all impedance loading, and when the output current has exceed this value, we will disconnect the amplifier circuit from the power supply subsystem.
> 
> The detail parameters are consider internal design detail, we don't have any plan to disclose such detail to public.


Would be nice to know the Upper limit of the current limiter, like 55A or so ? So we know which to stop by the CDR on buying batteries lol


----------



## KickAssChewGum

Marat Sar said:


> Sooo... will this improve my sp2000 with iems?
> 
> I'm sure it's been discussed here plenty of times, but I swear I used search and didn't find a good clear answer. I've had my sp2000 for a year now but I'm always looking to squeeze more SQ out of my chain -- and, also, I love stacks! I used to have a stack back in 2013 when I started with hifi (cayin c5 / fiio x3 -- loved that c5!) so I'm nostalgic to look like a mad scientist again...
> 
> But the question is: will it improve on the sp2000 soundstage and detail? Any sp2000 owners out there ready to share impressions?


If you like to eke out as much sound quality as possible from the SP2000 then you will not be disappointed pairing it with the C9. Make sure that you’re using a good interconnect and headphones/IEMs though in order to get the best out of it. Good luck!


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 8, 2021)

That is why I value the C9 so much.  Given that you are not driving anything overly sensitive (well, even if you do, IeMs tech as found by @twister6, will work).  The C9 will improve any DAPs That offers line out.  It only a matter of preferences and synergies, and remember, the better the Line out, the better the quality.  Dx300 as a source ? Yes! Again, just a matter of synergies


----------



## Shawnb

xand said:


> I think it depends on familiarity with 4.4mm.
> 
> I've never used 4.4mm before the dx300/C9, and both me and a friend have unintentionally not fully plugged into (can't remember which but either the dx300 or c9) with the cayin interconnect.
> 
> ...



I’ve done the same plugging in my 2.5mm into a 4.4mm adapter. Was easy to tell as I had no sound in one channel but it’s easy mistake to make. Hopefully I didn’t damage anything.


----------



## Whitigir

Shawnb said:


> I’ve done the same plugging in my 2.5mm into a 4.4mm adapter. Was easy to tell as I had no sound in one channel but it’s easy mistake to make. Hopefully I didn’t damage anything.


If you only run it for a few seconds to couple minutes, then you should be just fine.  The 2.5mm is easier to also be shorted to ground and once it is shorted, the sound will be cut off or intermittent.


----------



## Shawnb

Whitigir said:


> If you only run it for a few seconds to couple minutes, then you should be just fine.  The 2.5mm is easier to also be shorted to ground and once it is shorted, the sound will be cut off or intermittent.



Yeah it only got a few seconds and all sounds fine now. Just an easy mistake to make.


----------



## greenmac

Anyone paired C9 with LPGT ?

would be interested in outcome 

thanks


----------



## DaYooper

greenmac said:


> Anyone paired C9 with LPGT ?
> 
> would be interested in outcome
> 
> thanks


I might try that, as soon as it arrives that is. I have the LPGT-Ti and I expect it to sound pretty fabulous with the C9 as it does with the Cayin tube desktop HA-6A.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Mar 9, 2021)

Latest update from Cayin: C9 will be in stock by the end of this month.

(The guy in the pic is Cayin’s general manager in an event introducing C9)


----------



## Whitigir

I thought he was the CEO ? Or CFO ?


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Mar 9, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> I thought he was the CEO ? Or CFO ?


I think he is basically the guy in charge.


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> I think he is basically the guy in charged.


Ok, you better tell him that we need more A02 or better LO source LoL!!!


----------



## twister6

greenmac said:


> Anyone paired C9 with LPGT ?
> 
> would be interested in outcome
> 
> thanks



I covered that in DAP pair up section of my write up, please scroll down my review.


----------



## DaYooper

twister6 said:


> I covered that in DAP pair up section of my write up, please scroll down my review.


Whew, I'm off the hook now.


----------



## Andykong

CANiSLAYu said:


> Hi Andy,
> 
> Just to confirm, I'm talking about using the XLR pre-amp outputs on the rear of the A90, not the headphone outputs in the front.  My understanding is the XLR pre-amp output is the same as the headphone out, but with an extra 40 ohm resistor.  Would this still not be suitable to use with C9 in Pre mode?  Thank you.



The 40ohm resistor will make it safe for pre-amp function, so you can use it with C9.  

However the signal path of A90 involve both hefty voltage and current gain, and in our experience, this will introduce background noise and possibly distortion when connect to C9 as Pre-amp input.  

If C9 and A90 are lying around, by all means give it a try since it won't cost  you anything (maybe the dual XLR to 4.4mm cable), but please keep the A90 at low gain, and turn up the A90 volume really slowly.  For your reference, the A90 balanced line out is rated upto 49Vpp and that is equivalent to 17Vrms, a fairly high output level for pre-amp output.


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 9, 2021)

Please allow me to share *some thing I just collectively found.*

We have all found that the 4.4mm input on the C9 is connected toward ground in the sleeve.

By design, when unplugging, the R- toward the ground will be momentarily shorted before the detector can disconnect the circuitry.  This momentarily short during the amplifier being live is no good.

*So I recommend to turn the C9 off before any unplugging*

The same thing as the A02, make sure you turn off “auto plug and play”.  Then turn off the playing app before you “unplug”


----------



## utdeep

Don’t know what that means, but it sounds dangerous.  Maybe there is something to equipment getting damaged when used with the C9?


----------



## Whitigir

utdeep said:


> Don’t know what that means, but it sounds dangerous.  Maybe there is something to equipment getting damaged when used with the C9?


Just turn off before unplugging and that is that.


----------



## RTodd

Whitigir said:


> Just turn off before unplugging and that is that.


Andy perhaps that should be added to the instructions as a caution. I remember reading these kind of cautions when changing lenses on my Nikon camera, to switch the camera off before changing lenses.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

twister6 said:


> I covered that in DAP pair up section of my write up, please scroll down my review.


I have a Hiby R6 2020.   What do you think the pairing would be like for that DAP with the C9 vs the R8?    Would it be similar?


----------



## aaf evo

Looks like I’ll be snagging this with the C9 when musicteck has it all available.


----------



## twister6

aaf evo said:


> Looks like I’ll be snagging this with the C9 when musicteck has it all available.



Looks cool and will prevent "naked" C9 from sliding across smooth/glass table surfaces


----------



## bigbeans

I’m just concerned about if this will dissipate the heat effectively...


----------



## Frankie D

Whitigir said:


> Please allow me to share *some thing I just collectively found.*
> 
> We have all found that the 4.4mm input on the C9 is connected toward ground in the sleeve.
> 
> ...


Does this also mean the amp can damage the source?


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 10, 2021)

Frankie D said:


> Does this also mean the amp can damage the source?


*No amp can damage the source*, a bad cables will and it had happened before.

*Most of the time when a bad cables happened, you can always tell*.  No sound from one channel or both, lowered volume or intermittent sound, distorted or clipping

If you are plugging and unplugging the input when the amp is “Live or On stage”.  You will be risking damage toward both the source and the Amp.  *This is due to the 4.4mm Nature of design with it cylindrical body.  Again, not the Amplifier 

The Pentaconn 4.4mm is newly adopted *and Sony started it first with Walkman.  We are seeing it everywhere now for portable devices.  *It is much better alternative than 2.5mm*.  However, to properly have the *safe interconnect and Grounding*, the interface better be XLR or Mini XLR like Kann.  This way no pins can be shorting out momentarily to ground because all pins are separated and plugged or pulled at the same time.  *The output of any headphones out do not need to be grounded, and so this risk won’t happen with 4.4mm.  *None of Sony has Line out and their 4.4 are never grounded. So this thought escaped my mind previously

_*Also, I have tested it , the A02 has grounded Sleeve on 4.4mm and the C9 headphones out has no ground connected to its sleeve.  So then by the design of 4.4mm.  I also recommend to stop the music, turn off the amp before you plug and unplug the A02 as a source.  This thought caught my attentions since I am looking into making a properly shielded Interconnect for A02 and C9 .  If you use Neutron, turn off the auto plug and play feature *_


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 10, 2021)

bigbeans said:


> I’m just concerned about if this will dissipate the heat effectively...


Doubt it!!! Look good though, and if you are running Class AB with Solid State constantly, then this will be a good buy as the Amp does not heat up as much.  The vents ok the sides, too, bottom are likely enough to dissipate heat under this circumstances

If you are using Class A and Tube mode, the heat is about 2X generated.  Given that Class A by itself can generate a lot of heat by design, and the tubes, and the fact that the battery life is cut in half from a rated 10 hours down to 5 hours.  If you are using the C9 under this mode, you are recommended to have it laying out on the table in open air (Do not put or wrap anything over the top).  More effectively, be using heat sinks to help the C9 to dissipate the heat

I have seen question, did Cayin think of this heat during the engineering process ? Definitely did, and I am sure of it.  It just that it worries us and of course when touching it surface being this hot will further worry us.

These components within the C9 is rated to work upto 150 Celsius for example this Input differential LSK489.  Most of the time these modern components will have it efficiency throttled under severe heat starting from 75 Celsius or 167f which isn’t safe to touch.

Anyways, the cooler is the better.


----------



## Whitigir

Dx300 with Line Out and *High Gain*, perhaps has distortions.  Low gain and Medium gain is ok.

I advise to not use Dx300 as a source with High gain enabled


----------



## xand

Using a stand can help!


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

xand said:


> Using a stand can help!


This is the one I use with my iPHone and R6 2020.  It folds up so I can travel with it.

https://www.amazon.com/Nulaxy-Folda...s=iphone+stand+foldable&qid=1615400728&sr=8-3


----------



## bigbeans

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> This is the one I use with my iPHone and R6 2020.  It folds up so I can travel with it.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Nulaxy-Folda...s=iphone+stand+foldable&qid=1615400728&sr=8-3


I want to get that, but aren't the ports blocked on the R6?


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bigbeans said:


> I want to get that, but aren't the ports blocked on the R6?


I tend to use it most connected to my Hugo 2 which uses a USB-C to Coax interconnect.  The USB-C port is centered on the R6.     If I am using it in DAP mode, I just lay it on a flat surface.   You can also orient the DAP in landscape rather than portrait and that would free up the ports.


----------



## greenmac

I seem to recall someone posting a 15% discount code for AMP3 website but can’t locate now

anyone out there help ?


----------



## newworld666

greenmac said:


> I seem to recall someone posting a 15% discount code for AMP3 website but can’t locate now
> 
> anyone out there help ?


It was "mum21" should work till 15 th, I think ..


----------



## zen87192

newworld666 said:


> It was "mum21" should work till 15 th, I think ..


I can confirm: MUM21
Currently valid until 15th March 2021


----------



## utdeep

Have you guys read this thread on another forum?
https://forum.headphones.com/t/cayin-c9-portable-amp/10716/42

Something about the power for this product doesn’t seem right to me.  I don’t think I saw anything similar for the WA8 or WA11.  I’m going to wait for more info before I push 2K on it.


----------



## bluestorm1992

utdeep said:


> Have you guys read this thread on another forum?
> https://forum.headphones.com/t/cayin-c9-portable-amp/10716/42
> 
> Something about the power for this product doesn’t seem right to me.  I don’t think I saw anything similar for the WA8 or WA11.  I’m going to wait for more info before I push 2K on it.


The simultaneous charging thing? Andy clarified that from a very early time point. Several members here (including myself) also reiterate this several times, must have been buried by the huge amount of discussions here.

Regarding the reason behind this charging requirement, as some members have pointed out, this is related to the properties of 18650 batteries so cannot be “fixed”.


----------



## Whitigir

18650 isn’t your typical batteries, period, and for safety reason, Cayin does what need to be done


----------



## bigbeans

Whitigir said:


> 18650 isn’t your typical batteries, period, and for safety reason, Cayin does what need to be done



When's that Tesla x C9 x Whitigir collab?


----------



## xand (Mar 10, 2021)

utdeep said:


> Have you guys read this thread on another forum?
> https://forum.headphones.com/t/cayin-c9-portable-amp/10716/42
> I’m going to wait for more info before I push 2K on it.



What info do you want?

The C9 gets so hot in tube/A config that I think it's best not to charge until it cools down.

This means that if you want, you can charge the source continually and when the C9 gets low, you must disconnect, use a fan on it for a few minutes, then charge it.

If you want to listen while charging, you need to be in SS/AB mode, and I'd charge the source to full, disconnect, then charge the C9, and switch as required.

This hasn't been a problem for me at all, with a DAP as source ... If I've been listening for 5 hours straight (i have), probably better to take a break anyhow.

I can imagine it's more painful with a laptop as source.


----------



## Whitigir

xand said:


> What info do you want?
> 
> The C9 gets so hot in tube/A config that I think it's best not to charge until it cools down.
> 
> ...


I always listen for a bit, turn off for charging and take a break.  It is kinda a normal thing to do for any system really, except desktop that plugged to the wall AC


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 10, 2021)

Since user error could be a factor @Andykong a question for you, does the C9 have any protective in the main body when the user out in battery with wrong polarity and turn on the C9 ?

normally the protective circuit would be within the battery module, I would think. So if battery were inserted in reverse, the Battery module would blow and the C9 would not turn on as there won’t be any power supply to it ?

Though I would want to ask you to make sure if understood that correctly

Also, in reality, batteries are depleted and hence the voltage rated is Nominal voltage , and for 18650, the battery is rated at 3.7-4.2V.  In order to output 8.4V by a pair in parallel.  *I would think that the battery module is regulating the power rails* to keep voltage constants at +/-8.2 or 8.4


----------



## newworld666

utdeep said:


> Have you guys read this thread on another forum?
> https://forum.headphones.com/t/cayin-c9-portable-amp/10716/42
> 
> Something about the power for this product doesn’t seem right to me.  I don’t think I saw anything similar for the WA8 or WA11.  I’m going to wait for more info before I push 2K on it.



I was going to pull the trigger for it, though it seems not to be able to give enough juice to my HEDDphone.. 
But as I understand the situation is not really clear with the C9 :
1) You must stop the C9 before plugin or unplug any source or headphone ?
2) the charging procedure seems to be rather painful and risky (I know what overcharge or discharge of a battery can really kill it, as it happened quite often with some of my chinese items)
3) maybe the Dx300 issue (killed ?) is maybe due to one of these two limitations too ?.

I wanted to buy it with the 15% discount to AMP3 and buy another high end headphone... but I will wait some more.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Mar 11, 2021)

newworld666 said:


> I was going to pull the trigger for it, though it seems not to be able to give enough juice to my HEDDphone..
> But as I understand the situation is not really clear with the C9 :
> 1) You must stop the C9 before plugin or unplug any source or headphone ?
> 2) the charging procedure seems to be rather painful and risky (I know what overcharge or discharge of a battery can really kill it, as it happened quite often with some of my chinese items)
> ...


You can find some really easy way to arrangement the charging. Never bothers me.

In my case, I have 1 usbc charger. After a day’s use, I will charge C9 before I go to bed, and it is ready tomorrow morning. My player N6ii has pretty good battery life, so I usually charge it on the day time using the same charger when I am not listening to music.

The only thing you really need to stay away from is charging C9 while playing it. Even with that, technically you can perfectly do it when the battery is not full. I rarely do this because charging and playing C9 together gets very hot, and I do not really need to do this since I charge C9 every night.


----------



## bluestorm1992

newworld666 said:


> I was going to pull the trigger for it, though it seems not to be able to give enough juice to my HEDDphone..
> But as I understand the situation is not really clear with the C9 :
> 1) You must stop the C9 before plugin or unplug any source or headphone ?
> 2) the charging procedure seems to be rather painful and risky (I know what overcharge or discharge of a battery can really kill it, as it happened quite often with some of my chinese items)
> ...


For the turning C9 off before unplugging sources/headphones, technically, you should do this for ANY amp you use, including desktop amps. However, most “modern” amps (especially portable amps) have the added circuit design that prevents this from damaging the device. I have done source and IEM rolling frequently with C9 on, and there has not been any issue.

Just an added suggestion, if you are using a desktop amp, it may or may not has this added circuit design. So, for those desktop amps, please make sure to turn it off or turn the volume to 0 before unplugging the headphone from it!


----------



## mammal

I read the other forum, but I am still confused. Can someone answer if I can do the following?

Use macbook that is connected to wall with its apple charger (so constantly being charged). Then use Chord Hugo 2 (battery powered DAC) which is connected to the macbook with two USB cables (one for audio, one for charging). Then use C9 to play music, while being connected to Hugo via an interconnect, plus to Macbook via USB to keep it charged.

From what I understand there are at least 4 issues with my setup. 1) C9 potentially overheating 2) C9 potentially over charging (if discharge is slower) 3) C9 potentially under charging (if discharge is faster) and 4) C9 potentially short cuircuting (since it has two separate grounds for audio and charging, and connected DAC is being charged at the same time).

I understand that some people plan to use C9 as portable amp, charging only when not in use. However, for me (and I am sure some others) C9 seems to be a nice transportable amp option, so a setup similar to mine (charging while playing) isn't that unthinkable.


----------



## newworld666

bluestorm1992 said:


> For the turning C9 off before unplugging sources/headphones, technically, you should do this for ANY amp you use, including desktop amps. However, most “modern” amps (especially portable amps) have the added circuit design that prevents this from damaging the device. I have done source and IEM rolling frequently with C9 on, and there has not been any issue.
> 
> Just an added suggestion, if you are using a desktop amp, it may or may not has this added circuit design. So, for those desktop amps, please make sure to turn it off or turn the volume to 0 before unplugging the headphone from it!


I understand the theory without any trouble.

But, As I am using mainly one headphone and I am rather active while listening musing, I often switch from a M500+THX887 desktop combo near my sofa and just plug unplug my headphone (HEDD) and my source from the desktop to my (Fiio M11 or WM1A) + Centance V2 or a Kann Alpha.
I am using intensively all my sources in a DLNA mode to access most of my Synology servers (through wifi or Bluetooth wia foobar2000)
The Kann Alpha is also connected to the A&K CD Ripper/Player (source for the desktop for CD or Flac) and to the SMSL M500 via toslink fiber.

Sometimes, I like to go from my sofa to my working place, room, garden by just unplugging the headphone from the THX889 and plug it to the Kann Alpha... 

So basically I have no "level/power" issue as all my items are more or less set at the same sound pressure for my ears .. and all my items are on USB-C dockStations permanently plugged to power. 
When I am travelling (train or planes) I don't switch between items, but they are plugged when there are any sources of juice with the "SAME" compact USB-C charger (3 usb-c and 2 usb-a output 65 to 100W).

For years now, I had no issue with many items => R6pro, M9, M11, WM1A Kann alpha, xduoo-xd05+, Centrance M8V2,  ..
I had a battery power issue with some like the Kingsound portable M03 (Stax SR-03MKII) and a miniDSP HA-DSP =>I don't want to have the same issue with a C9.
I understand it can not a proper way to use portable items, but it's too risky for me to trust just on my behavior not to destroy an item and not charge on the same charge my portable items.


----------



## Whitigir

newworld666 said:


> I was going to pull the trigger for it, though it seems not to be able to give enough juice to my HEDDphone..
> But as I understand the situation is not really clear with the C9 :
> 1) You must stop the C9 before plugin or unplug any source or headphone ?
> 2) the charging procedure seems to be rather painful and risky (I know what overcharge or discharge of a battery can really kill it, as it happened quite often with some of my chinese items)
> ...


1/ yes, it is always recommended to turn Off the amp before plug and unplug source of headphones, not only C9.  It is just that the C9 has plug detections and sometime people get lazy, so I put it as a reminder 

2/ charging isn’t risky or painful.  Just don’t charge while listening.  The C9 can go on with 5 hours minimum to 10 hours or so.  You can also swap batteries.  So, if you listen for less than hours a session, you charge it when it is off.  If you listen for more than that, you swap batteries and go on .....risk ? What risk ?

3/ I never had issues with my dx300, and I am using medium gain.  To what I know, the dx300 get damages could be due to the bad cables, or the plugs are not fully plugged, and neither of those are related to any limitations .... more like 4.4mm flaws by design


----------



## Whitigir

newworld666 said:


> I understand the theory without any trouble.
> 
> But, As I am using mainly one headphone and I am rather active while listening musing, I often switch from a M500+THX887 desktop combo near my sofa and just plug unplug my headphone (HEDD) and my source from the desktop to my (Fiio M11 or WM1A) + Centance V2 or a Kann Alpha.
> I am using intensively all my sources in a DLNA mode to access most of my Synology servers (through wifi or Bluetooth wia foobar2000)
> ...


I charge my DAP and C9 together from the same charger since the day it arrived....risk ? What risk ? As I said, just don’t charge it while it is at the On-stage


----------



## mammal

Whitigir said:


> 2/ charging isn’t risky or painful. Just don’t charge while listening. The C9 can go on with 5 hours minimum to 10 hours or so. You can also swap batteries. So, if you listen for less than hours a session, you charge it when it is off. If you listen for more than that, you swap batteries and go on .....risk ? What risk ?



Are we really expecting users to be fiddling with screws to swap the batteries out, if they want to listen for a longer time? I am sorry, but "just don't charge while listening" does not sound like good user experience and if something as simple (and common) as charging while listening can damage your equipment, some could argue it is bad implementation and the product need a revision to address this.


----------



## newworld666 (Mar 11, 2021)

Which is not clear ... concerning AndyKong post is this assertion






So Ok I understand, the C9 has clearly a protected mode for this issue..But, I am not sure to understand (lack of knowledge for sure) what happens to the DAP (like the ibasso DX300, but also a Kann  Alpha or WM1A) if by a "user's mistake" both are connected and used at the same time on a laptop or charger.

Actually I use (less by COVID19 this last year, but it will restart soon) a Kann Alpha for full day job with 2 x 3/4 hours mixing trains or underground.
For sure, anytime of the day I find an electric plug, I charge my portable devices *as none can really be used around 5 to 6 hours between 6AM to 8 or 9PM*. That's the fact with my smartphone (Galaxy Z Fold 2, WM1A or Kann Alpha, Qudelix 5K) .. So I use such type of USB-C device even in the train while listening to my music (mainly to my upnp server or qobuz via 4K accesspoint to my smartphone).






I would love to use my Kann Alpha with a C9 amp every place during the day, I have a pair of hours sitting somewhere with a Z7M2/Ultrasone Ed15 veritas or even IER-Z1R (which is mostly used in underground or walking with Qdelix 5K so C9 shouldn't be involved in this combo).


----------



## Whitigir

mammal said:


> Are we really expecting users to be fiddling with screws to swap the batteries out, if they want to listen for a longer time? I am sorry, but "just don't charge while listening" does not sound like good user experience and if something as simple (and common) as charging while listening can damage your equipment, some could argue it is bad implementation and the product need a revision to address this.


It is ok , you can move on to other Amplifier which will need battery services after 2 years

I and other users are super happy with the 18650 batteries that I can swap out anytime and day I want like flash light

The world is not perfect, and there is always 2 sides to the coin 

So I will be seeing you around


----------



## mammal

Don't take me wrong, I like having an option to change batteries when they are old for a new set. I also never said I wouldn't buy C9, I as well as may. I like what I am reading here, except for the fact, that I should not be charging while playing.


----------



## Shawnb

mammal said:


> Don't take me wrong, I like having an option to change batteries when they are old for a new set. I also never said I wouldn't buy C9, I as well as may. I like what I am reading here, except for the fact, that I should not be charging while playing.



They aren’t saying you CAN’T charge while playing, they are saying you shouldn’t due to the heat caused. Specially if in pure tube mode as it really generates heat. 
Again for the most part you should be fine playing and charging due to parts being rated up to 150 degrees BUT it’s not recommended.

It was the same with my Max, burning it while charging and it got really hot, didn’t damage anything as far as I know but likely wasn’t good for it.


----------



## mammal (Mar 11, 2021)

Shawnb said:


> They aren’t saying you CAN’T charge while playing, they are saying you shouldn’t due to the heat caused.


Heat is just one thing I am concerned about. On the other forum there is a post that shares the charging warning. I am attaching a screenshot here. As you can see there, overcharging/under running/short circuiting are the other concerns, alongside of the heat produced.


----------



## Shawnb

mammal said:


> Heat is just one thing I am concerned about. On the other forum there is a post that shares the charging warning. I am attaching a screenshot here. As you can see there, overcharging/under running/short circuiting are the other concerns, alongside of the head produced.



Damn didn’t see that part. Seems like a very complicated device to use. Basically to charge it we have to remove the batteries or tray at least. Sounds like it’ll be a PIA.
Glad I didn’t order one as now I’m reconsidering.
Though I guess this problem would be partially solved by an external charger and only charge that way. Makes me wish it was a bit easier to remove the batteries if we have to do this every time we charge it.
Also going to make burning it in a pain if have to burn in each stage separately


----------



## DaYooper

I didn't read that removing the batteries was required for charging.


----------



## RTodd

Whitigir said:


> It is ok , you can move on to other Amplifier which will need battery services after 2 years
> 
> I and other users are super happy with the 18650 batteries that I can swap out anytime and day I want like flash light
> 
> ...


It is a nice feature, could have been implemented better though. Should not need screws some kind of a latch would have been welcome. Surprises me a little as Cayin could have made it a custom module and made more money selling them, so there is that; the screws and tray saved us some money, at the cost of a little convenience.


----------



## twister6

mammal said:


> Heat is just one thing I am concerned about. On the other forum there is a post that shares the charging warning. I am attaching a screenshot here. As you can see there, overcharging/under running/short circuiting are the other concerns, alongside of the heat produced.



The charging strategy is very simple, when you start playback with a full battery (4 lights solid lot), don't keep C9 plugged into a charger. Depending on your use, like for example tube with class ab should last you 10hrs or so (off top of my head), once you see the battery down to one lit light, plug it in. I only found the issue, which is explained by design, when battery is fully charged and you keep the charger on, the protection circuit will kick in and you are running off battery while plugged into a charger. 

It is really not the end of the world and you can get many hours of use this way.


----------



## twister6

Shawnb said:


> Damn didn’t see that part. Seems like a very complicated device to use. Basically to charge it we have to remove the batteries or tray at least. Sounds like it’ll be a PIA.
> Glad I didn’t order one as now I’m reconsidering.
> Though I guess this problem would be partially solved by an external charger and only charge that way. Makes me wish it was a bit easier to remove the batteries if we have to do this every time we charge it.
> Also going to make burning it in a pain if have to burn in each stage separately


Absolutely not, you don't need to remove batteries to charge it.


----------



## mammal

twister6 said:


> The charging strategy is very simple, when you start playback with a full battery (4 lights solid lot), don't keep C9 plugged into a charger.


I agree that this is doable, as long as the user cannot break the amp/their source by forgetting about this. If the protection circuit (for both over-charing and over-discharging) works, then we don't have an issue here. Based on re-reading the other forum, it seems that C9 is protected in every single scenario (including short circuiting if charging and playing from the same source, like a macbook), as can be read in:



> The Battery module and the C9 audio circuit did not share a common ground, so it is likely that there will be potential different between the two grounds. Therefore it is very important to charge the battery with a separate USB charger. Using the USB from connected audio source equipment (such as computer or media player) to charge up the C9 batteries will trigger the short circuit protection, and might even damage the device and/or connected source equipment.



And



> Do not charge and playback both C9 and the connected source (let’s assume that is a DAP) at the same time. The four pieces of 18650 batteries are connected as a +8.4V and -8.4V power supply for the amplification circuit, and there is a set of ground line in between and that is connected to the C9 chassis. The charging circuit via USB-C has its own reference Ground connected to the USB socket. Be reminded that these two Ground are completely independent. If C9 and the DAP are charge and play at the same time, the power supply Ground (C9 Chassis) and charging Ground (USB socket) will short circuit by the charging cable and interconnect between C9 and DAP. C9 will enter protected mode. You can revoke C9 from protection mode by disconnecting everything and charge it for 10 second.



What concerns me though is *"and might even damage the device and/or connected source equipment"*, is this just lawyer talk, or can my macbook be actually damaged by playing/charging C9 with it? This is exactly what I do with my Chord Hugo 2, I charge from one USB port and play from another USB port. To keep it charged.

Please understand that I am just trying to educate myself and perhaps provide feedback to the product team, so that they can make it more clear to their users (who do not read this forum) that C9 has a protection mode and what are exact rules on operating it. We all know that users do not always follow best practices and it would be bad if charging/playing at the same time would results in breaking your source.


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 11, 2021)

You don’t need to remove battery to charge

Just don’t charge while playing

_*There is no short circuiting or anything*_.  *Just when the charger is connected while listening, the battery may just kick in protective mode for your safety*.  However it is triggered who cares ? One of the way to trigger protection circuit is by listening and charging together, so I recommend not to.

Oh, and Buy a proper charger and not charging by PC or Mcbook, or Laptop, or out of your Ipad

Now, if you are concerned about 18650, you shouldn’t buy C9 at all.  Because there are heavy warning that you “*have to handle 18650 with cares, or serious injury or DEATH will occur*”!!!


----------



## mammal

In my particular case, I wouldn't be using Macbook's audio out, but my Hugo's. This means that the charger for C9 would be the Macbook, where as playback source would be Hugo 2. So no short circuiting there either. I am just surprised that we are even talking about how to charge a device in 2021. I would have assumed this to be "do whatever, charge it or not, play or not, we built the system to be safe and bulletproof". I guess the fact that it uses 18650 (which I don't know enough about) changes things.


----------



## RTodd

Whitigir said:


> You don’t need to remove battery to charge
> 
> Just don’t charge while playing
> 
> ...


Death by portable Amp, ouch.


----------



## Shawnb

My bad. Not sure where I got removing the batteries from.


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 11, 2021)

RTodd said:


> Death by portable Amp, ouch.


Not portable amp, but by not handling 18650 battery cells the correct way

So, if you feel that you can’t be responsible enough to handle 18650 batteries and complain about the protection circuit of the device which handles it, then the device is not for you


----------



## LabelH

Personally, I tried to avoid charging and play at same time because of background noise and more apparent during song move to next track


----------



## RTodd

Whitigir said:


> Not portable amp, by not handling 18650 battery cells the correct way
> 
> So, if you feel that you can’t be responsible enough to handle 18650 batteries and complain about the protection circuit of the device which handles it, then the device is not for you


Just joking with comment, with you sir, use common sense. Oh wait, no such thing only learned sense.


----------



## lumdicks

1. Charge your C9 until full when not using. I usually charge it overnight as I trust the protective circuit. 
2. Buy 4 spare 18650 batteries with a standalone charger. 
3. Use your C9 without charging it. If batteries run out after hours, just power off it and replace the batteries.
4. Charge the batteries taken out with the charger.
5. Charge your C9 after using.

Life is that simple, isn’t it?

Life is too short for worrying. Relax and just enjoy your music.


----------



## Frankie D

Whitigir said:


> I charge my DAP and C9 together from the same charger since the day it arrived....risk ? What risk ? As I said, just don’t charge it while it is at the On-stage


What folks are saying is that it is a pain to have to charge the C9 only when not in use.  This is recommended for my N8 as well.  I have been able to charge it when also being used and it is fine, but I do not do this every day and it is also a different device.  I do wish Cayin would make these devices allowing for simultaneous charging and listening.  But they did not.

I wonder if anyone has actually been doing it simultaneously without issue?  What will happen if you charge while using?  Tks.


----------



## xand (Mar 11, 2021)

Frankie D said:


> What folks are saying is that it is a pain to have to charge the C9 only when not in use.  This is recommended for my N8 as well.  I have been able to charge it when also being used and it is fine, but I do not do this every day and it is also a different device.  I do wish Cayin would make these devices allowing for simultaneous charging and listening.  But they did not.
> 
> I wonder if anyone has actually been doing it simultaneously without issue?  What will happen if you charge while using?  Tks.



You can charge it while using it.

From: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...dphone-amplifier.943135/page-48#post-16152883



Andykong said:


> You can charge and playback C9 at the same time before the batteries is fully charged. 18650 Lithium battery charge control is divided into two phases. The first phase is constant current charging. When the battery voltage is lower than 4.2 V, the charger will charge with a constant *current*. The second stage is the constant *voltage* charging stage, when the battery voltage reaches 4.2 V, due to the characteristics of the lithium battery, if the voltage is high, it will be damaged, the charger will fix the voltage at 4.2 V, and the charging current will gradually decrease. Therefore, if you charge and playback at the same time and your charging rate is faster than discharge rate, the 18650 batteries will reach 4.2V eventually. The problem is, when you continue to charge and playback at this moment, C9 power management cannot enter the constant voltage charge stage, this will put C9 into protection mode. You can revoke C9 from protection mode by disconnecting everything and charge it for 10 second. You are advised to disconnect C9 from charging when the fourth battery LED is flashing in these circumstances.





Andykong said:


> If you charge and playback C9 at the same time and your charging rate is slower than discharge rate, your battery will consume slowly. At certain point, the batteries will drop below 3V and triggered the protection circuit to power off the C9. . You can revoke C9 from protection mode by disconnecting everything and charge it for 10 second and charge up the 18650 batteries. Since deep discharge might damage your battery, you are advised to stop your playback and start to charge up C9 when only 1 charging LED remains flashing.


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 11, 2021)

xand said:


> You can charge it while using it.
> 
> From: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...dphone-amplifier.943135/page-48#post-16152883
> 
> ...


_Yepe, that is too complicated for anyone who doesn’t take 18650 batteries seriously enough.  You should go read E-Cigarettes catastrophes due to 18650 being misused._

Basically, you can charge C9 while playing, but you have to take off the charger when the 4th led is flashing....this means it is going to the lat phase of voltage calibration and trigger charging and most importantly is for multiple cells at the same time.  So it may enter protection mode

Also, you should not charge the C9 by the same source that is charging your DAP ....If charging and playing together is a thing you prefer....then use 2 separate Chargers

Even myself can’t be bothered enough to charge and watch the damn 4th LED....now unless you are using class A and Tubes which constantly drain it down so quickly, faster than it can replenish....but that would generate so much heat....and your 18650 can only be so efficient at given temperatures, and they started throttling down from 40celsius or so depends on the cells

So, if you can not accept the responsibilities to handle 18650 cells then don’t buy the C9.  No one want to see you burning down your house or such.

For anyone who is curious, if you carry 18650 cells as spare to quickly swap out...*Please keep them in protective case these cells are UNPROTECTED kinds, even key chain or anything that can conduct, it will short and burn you down 

Keep in the case as picture or similar 
*


----------



## xand

Whitigir said:


> _Yepe, that is too complicated for anyone who doesn’t take 18650 batteries seriously enough.  You should go read E-Cigarettes catastrophes due to 18650 being misused._



https://www.nbcnews.com/health/heal...gerous-deadly-e-cigarette-explosions-n1032901


> In May 2018, Wake D'Elia was at home using an electronic cigarette when the device's battery malfunctioned and exploded, killing him instantly. He was 38.



https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/8/22221366/vape-battery-explosions-warning-fires-death-injury-cpsc


> Consumers should not buy or use individual, loose 18650 lithium-ion battery cells without protection circuits due to possible fire risk, according to a warning just issued by the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC).




https://www.fda.gov/tobacco-product...nents/tips-help-avoid-vape-battery-explosions


> Tips to Help Avoid "Vape" Battery Explosions



Holy crap.

Oh well, I'm not worried, I don't use+charge. Sound quality is wurf.


----------



## Whitigir

And that is why I am thankful for the C9 to have protective circuit to properly charge multiple cells in a device

hell, with unprotected cells, a bad charger can burn down your house as it doesn’t calibrate and trigger charge evenly across all cells and C9 has 4 cells


xand said:


> https://www.nbcnews.com/health/heal...gerous-deadly-e-cigarette-explosions-n1032901
> 
> 
> https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/8/22221366/vape-battery-explosions-warning-fires-death-injury-cpsc
> ...


----------



## LabelH

xand said:


> https://www.nbcnews.com/health/heal...gerous-deadly-e-cigarette-explosions-n1032901
> 
> 
> https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/8/22221366/vape-battery-explosions-warning-fires-death-injury-cpsc
> ...


Sound like C4 instead of C9


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 11, 2021)

LabelH said:


> Sound like C4 instead of C9


LMAO, if you mishandle your GF, she could also be an Atomic Bomb 


LabelH said:


> Personally, I tried to avoid charging and play at same time because of background noise and more apparent during song move to next track


yes, totally agree


----------



## bluestorm1992

I think charging becomes a concern if you plan to use C9 as a PURE desktop amp. In this use case, you will most likely want it to be charging the whole time, just like any other desktop devices.

However, what C9 is intended for is a transportable device. So long as you will take it away from your desk to use it, naturally you will disconnect the device from charging and then you will be all good.

In my personal use case, for example, even in this work-from-home situation, I take C9 with me to the living room when I take a short break during work, or to my bedroom at night. During the day I never charge it, and I put it to charge before I go to bed.

I think some of you are over-concerning about the charging requirement. Meanwhile, I should certainly note that if you are planning to use C9 as a PURE desktop device, then charging could get inconvenient. However, If you have some transportable use for it, then charging would not be inconvenient at all, just like many of the users have stated here.


----------



## newworld666

LabelH said:


> Personally, I tried to avoid charging and play at same time because of background noise and more apparent during song move to next track


 
It's already a long time I didn't buy any desktop or portable amps giving some background noise. 
They are all 100% noiseless even when pushed at 100% of volume while charging them or not. This is trough even, connected to my laptop, workstation and even with smartphones as DLNA source while charging wirelessly QI or Iphone ? 

Do you mean the C9 have some background noise in some situations with IEM like Sony's Z1R or Closed Headphones ?


----------



## bigbeans

I use C9 in both desktop and transport mode. On the desktop side, I have it plugged in to iFi Zen DAC Signature. On the DAP side, I use R8. 

All I need to do is charge each night, disconnect when I wake up, and everything is good.


----------



## zen87192

Batteries and Charger at the ready. N6ii Case received today. N6ii with A02 arrives tomorrow and C9 before the end of this month. Getting excited!


----------



## zen87192

And yes Whitigir... I will get cases for those four LG Brown Batteries... I was actually surprised they were only sent in cardboard boxes inside a padded jiffy bag! Not a great way to send but another money saving company!


----------



## bluestorm1992

newworld666 said:


> It's already a long time I didn't buy any desktop or portable amps giving some background noise.
> They are all 100% noiseless even when pushed at 100% of volume while charging them or not. This is trough even, connected to my laptop, workstation and even with smartphones as DLNA source while charging wirelessly QI or Iphone ?
> 
> Do you mean the C9 have some background noise in some situations with IEM like Sony's Z1R or Closed Headphones ?


I can say that no noise when with my headphones (Diana V2, Verite Closed) or IEMs (U18t, MEST, Fir M5, MMR Gar Bolg, Audeze iSine 10/20, Traillii). I have also done charging while playing and no noise issue so far.

I have not tried C9 with ultra-sensitive IEMs, but people seem to be fine with it and Odin, and also now you can get the iFi IEM match (advertisement on the front page of head-Fi currently...) and you should be all good.


----------



## newworld666 (Mar 11, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> I think some of you are over-concerning about the charging requirement. Meanwhile, I should certainly note that if *you are planning to use C9 as a PURE desktop device,* then charging could get inconvenient. However, If you have some transportable use for it, then charging would not be inconvenient at all, just like many of the users have stated here.



Not as a pure desktop player, but as it is transportable, I intended to use for some travel of course, but mostly, as it should have been a very good power amp (theoretically better than my actual Desktop MonolithTHX887) between my home and my office.. getting plugged when arriving somewhere and charging it all day long or night playing music or not.. And from time to time moving in my home somewhere without charging just playing (Garden, Room, Sofa)...

As of now, I gave up the idea of buying the C9 for 2 issues in my case (not compatible with the too low sensitivity of my HEDDphone, and not a secured Desktop function) I will stop to post.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Mar 11, 2021)

newworld666 said:


> Not as a pure desktop player, but as it is transportable, I intended to use for some travel of course, but mostly, as it should have been a very good power amp (theoretically better than my actual Desktop MonolithTHX887) between my home and my office.. getting plugged when arriving somewhere and charging it all day long or night playing music or not.. And from time to time moving in my home somewhere without charging just playing (Garden, Room, Sofa)...
> 
> As of now, I gave up the idea of buying the C9 for 2 issues in my case (not compatible with the too low sensitivity of my HEDDphone, and not a secured Desktop unction) I will stop to post.


Yeah, I think you make the right move. Apparently, C9 does not fit well with your intended use case very well.


----------



## LabelH

newworld666 said:


> It's already a long time I didn't buy any desktop or portable amps giving some background noise.
> They are all 100% noiseless even when pushed at 100% of volume while charging them or not. This is trough even, connected to my laptop, workstation and even with smartphones as DLNA source while charging wirelessly QI or Iphone ?
> 
> Do you mean the C9 have some background noise in some situations with IEM like Sony's Z1R or Closed Headphones ?


I use SP2K while charging to C9 (no charge), with IEM, it pick up some noise during changing track.
If I charge C9 with SP2K (no charge), the noise is not apparent.


----------



## bigbeans (Mar 11, 2021)

The beauty of C9 is if you have modern flagship headphones and IEMs in your collection.

I have Z1R, Stellia, HER10 P and ESX900 (Google this, very interesting).
IEMS: IER M9, Traillii, Legend X, Dunu Luna

The C9 allows you to use this amp in both desktop context and transportable context. Granted connecting power while charging isn't advised, so theoretically the MINIMUM time you can listen on C9 is 5 hours (Class A Tube). I don't know about you, but I don't have 5 hours available to me for a listening session. I generally switch modes anyway. IF you are lazy, you can simply swap batteries and you don't need to fiddle with a screwdriver. The Screw is only for securing the model incase you turn C9 UPSIDE DOWN or excessive G force. As C9 is on a desk, and I don't throw my C9 around, screw isn't needed.

When you are finished with a listening session on your computer, you turn C9 OFF leave it in charging, C9 doesn't care. I use a 10 port USB charger that is charges my DAP, iPad, iPhone, and various electronics all at SAME TIME.

You can also take your desktop amplifier with you as C9 is transportable. This is a killer feature. It's sad to C9 being criticized as those who actually own it understand there isn't a big deal.

The downside of C9, which was addressed, is how it plays with sensitive IEMS. It needs IEM Match, but this is really the only real downside I perceive. If I didn't need IEM Match, that would be an improvement as no dongle is needed.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Mar 11, 2021)

bigbeans said:


> The beauty of C9 is if you have modern flagship headphones and IEMs in your collection.
> 
> I have Z1R, Stellia, HER10 P and ESX900 (Google this, very interesting).
> IEMS: IER M9, Traillii, Legend X, Dunu Luna
> ...


Agree. The C9 charging thing sounds complicated, but once people actually get their hands on it, they will see that it is not that complicated at all.

To me, it is just like charging my phone. I obviously do not always have it being charged during the day when I am using it, and I put it back to the charger at night before I go to bed. It is just as simple as that.

I feel like I am repeating myself, but once more, for either (1) power safety issue, or (2) heat issue, try to avoid charging C9 while playing. If your use case makes you strongly prefer charging C9 while playing it, then C9 does NOT fit your use case. Maybe something like WA8 will be a good choice.


----------



## zen87192

Just need those Battery Trays to make an appearance.... But this won't happen until most of the C9 orders have been made and shipped to all retailers to satisfy demand. I only hope that the Battery Trays will not be an extortionate price! Really only one more is needed to replace or 'roll' batteries as they are charged, but one is always wanting to be ready at a moment's notice to 'lock 'n load'!


----------



## bluestorm1992

newworld666 said:


> Not as a pure desktop player, but as it is transportable, I intended to use for some travel of course, but mostly, as it should have been a very good power amp (theoretically better than my actual Desktop MonolithTHX887) between my home and my office.. getting plugged when arriving somewhere and charging it all day long or night playing music or not.. And from time to time moving in my home somewhere without charging just playing (Garden, Room, Sofa)...
> 
> As of now, I gave up the idea of buying the C9 for 2 issues in my case (not compatible with the too low sensitivity of my HEDDphone, and not a secured Desktop function) I will stop to post.


Sorry for keep quoting you... But it just occurred to me that Woo Audio WA8 may work very well with your intended use case; worth checking it out.


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 11, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> Agree. The C9 charging thing sounds complicated, but once people actually get their hands on it, they will see that it is not that complicated at all.
> 
> To me, it is just like charging my phone. I obviously do not always have it being charged during the day when I am using it, and I put it back to the charger at night before I go to bed. It is just as simple as that.
> 
> I feel like I am repeating myself, but once more, for either (1) power safety issue, or (2) heat issue, try to avoid charging C9 while playing. If your use case makes you strongly prefer charging C9 while playing it, then C9 does NOT fit your use case. Maybe something like WA8 will be a good choice.


EXACTLY!!!! Thanks for a good comparison




zen87192 said:


> Just need those Battery Trays to make an appearance.... But this won't happen until most of the C9 orders have been made and shipped to all retailers to satisfy demand. I only hope that the Battery Trays will not be an extortionate price! Really only one more is needed to replace or 'roll' batteries as they are charged, but one is always wanting to be ready at a moment's notice to 'lock 'n load'!


I also hope so as well.  The case is also a battery charger.  So I would be expecting $75-100 like any other sophisticated 18650 charger on the market.  Given that the Battery modules is built dedicated for audio performances with regulators, then I would expect about $200 top!  But at least that is what I am hoping to see


----------



## xand (Mar 11, 2021)

newworld666 said:


> As of now, I gave up the idea of buying the C9 for 2 issues in my case (not compatible with the too low sensitivity of my HEDDphone, and not a secured Desktop function) I will stop to post.



If you want a desktop amp, not even Andy (the cayin rep) thinks you should get the C9...

The HA-6A perhaps, if you want to try a cayin?

*Edit*: Whoops, you did want a transportable. Erh, demo the C9. Of course demo the WA8 too, but that only has 5 hours battery life always...


----------



## Shawnb (Mar 11, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> Agree. The C9 charging thing sounds complicated, but once people actually get their hands on it, they will see that it is not that complicated at all.
> 
> To me, it is just like charging my phone. I obviously do not always have it being charged during the day when I am using it, and I put it back to the charger at night before I go to bed. It is just as simple as that.
> 
> I feel like I am repeating myself, but once more, for either (1) power safety issue, or (2) heat issue, try to avoid charging C9 while playing. If your use case makes you strongly prefer charging C9 while playing it, then C9 does NOT fit your use case. Maybe something like WA8 will be a good choice.



It’s not so much the C9 but the batteries. We just have to get used to the idea that these batteries require a bit more care when charging. Once we get used to that and learn to have a spare set ready to go all will be fine.
Just something new we have to adjust to


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 11, 2021)

Back to the C9 and the source .  I am comparing the Dx300 against the T01 Line out.

Both is pseudo line out, at least I can tell as much because both has smeared imaging

However, the T01 does better than Dx300 Line out due to these followings

1/ better textures, and more focused on imagings

2/ less diffused and smeared of imagings and there seems to be a constant “reverberations” that is a little too artificial so on the Dx300.

3/ Due to the #2, the Dx300 seems to have larger soundstages but the layering , separations and placements are not as well lay out as T01

4/ All in all, the T01 has an even warmer lower bass, density, but with better focusing, imagings, textures, placements, the T01 seems more enjoyable IMO

The A02 and the T01 both share similar traits , except the A02 is more neutral and taking imagings, textures a little further, together with larger soundstage, though still not as large as Dx300.  But the fact that A02 is so clear, with very focused fidelity is not an easy source to take lightly

I have to give DX300 the credit for being such large soundstage.  It is on par with Dx220Max, and only with different sound signatures

However, for the best imagings and textures, I will take A02 primarily....Because...what is soundstage  if placements and textures are smeared ? T01 next please 




Spoiler: T01



though it is worth to mention that I did play around with T01 a little by swapping out the POS into Rubycon EE caps for 4.4 output decoupling 
Probably will have more fun later on 😝


----------



## immortalsoul

Whitigir said:


> Back to the C9 and the source .  I am comparing the Dx300 against the T01 Line out.
> 
> Both is pseudo line out, at least I can tell as much because both has smeared imaging
> 
> ...


Thank you for impressions. Now that I have the T01, I guess I don't have to really struggle to buy the A02. That is nice to know because T01 is the motherboard I like the best


----------



## Whitigir

immortalsoul said:


> Thank you for impressions. Now that I have the T01, I guess I don't have to really struggle to buy the A02. That is nice to know because T01 is the motherboard I like the best


Yes, I am glad you found it helpful , and there are real differences when switching DSD filters options on the T01 is also very enjoyable.  I listen to Jazz , pop, classical mainly and so I preferred (DSD Fir3) and (Slow RollOff)


----------



## Shawnb

So A02 over the Max as well?


----------



## bluestorm1992

Just spotted this pic. Oriolus’s new DAP with two C9.


----------



## bigbeans

bluestorm1992 said:


> Just spotted this pic. Oriolus’s new DAP with two C9.


WOW

That would bring me straight to the Cayin/Oriolus booth if I saw this at a CanJam!!

Stacking C9...can’t be good for thermals though.


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> Back to the C9 and the source .  I am comparing the Dx300 against the T01 Line out.
> 
> Both is pseudo line out, at least I can tell as much because both has smeared imaging
> 
> ...




In my opinion, T01 single-end line out to C9 with 3.5mm phone out is the best setting for T01, and it'll work well for a lot of IEM and some portable-friendly headphones, but I can understand user will want to keep the balanced option wide open, so maybe a thorough comparison of T01 single-end line out to C9 with SE to BAL conversion inside C9, against T01 balanced line out to C9 is a worthwhile exploration.


----------



## DaYooper (Mar 11, 2021)

Andykong said:


> In my opinion, T01 single-end line out to C9 with 3.5mm phone out is the best setting for T01, and it'll work well for a lot of IEM and some portable-friendly headphones, but I can understand user will want to keep the balanced option wide open, so maybe a thorough comparison of T01 single-end line out to C9 with SE to BAL conversion inside C9, against T01 balanced line out to C9 is a worthwhile exploration.


Of course you did the "playing around" thing with the T01, how could you help yourselfe my tinker addicted friend? I noticed in the other photo you had the mode to pre. Are you using the T01 that way?

Oops, I thought I was replying to Whitigir's post.


----------



## bigbeans

DaYooper said:


> Of course you did the "playing around" thing with the T01, how could you help yourselfe my tinker addicted friend? I noticed in the other photo you had the mode to pre. Are you using the T01 that way?
> 
> Oops, I thought I was replying to Whitigir's post.


 
AndyKong is our addictive friend


----------



## Andykong (Mar 11, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> Please allow me to share *some thing I just collectively found.*
> 
> We have all found that the 4.4mm input on the C9 is connected toward ground in the sleeve.
> 
> ...





Whitigir said:


> Just turn off before unplugging and that is that.





RTodd said:


> Andy perhaps that should be added to the instructions as a caution. I remember reading these kind of cautions when changing lenses on my Nikon camera, to switch the camera off before changing lenses.



Thank you Whitigir for taking the time to warn fellow C9 about the potential risk of 4.4mm connector.  In fact I have also mentioned a similar case previously (*HERE*), that was a YULONG desktop All-in-one, and I have to stop the tour and relocate the reviewers to another group because of that, so indeed 4.4mm will cause short circuit situation that won't happens with XLR based connectors.

However, the risk is, at least theoretically, not unique to 4.4mm connectors.  It will also happens with 6.35mm, and 3.5mm connectors.  this is a design problem to all cylinder shaped audio connectors with ground connection, but 4.4mm has a higher rate of occurrence. 

I spend sometime to tackle the 4.4mm short circuit problem after the YULONG tour sample instance, I won't call these comprehensive, and definitely not exhaustive analysis of the problem, but I think this will be a good start.

1.  Don't insert 4.4mm connectors to your DAP output when your DAP is active (i.e, in the middle of playback).  While it is correct to say that the ground sleeve will be momentarily shorted by R- when you insert or unplug the 4.4mm connectors, but if the circuitry is in idle condition, the momentarily shorted circuit should not toast your circuitry.  However, if your DAP is in the middle of playback when you insert the 4.4mm connector, the momentarily shorted circuit will have a much bigger chance to cause damage to the circuitry.   In other word, you should always STOP your playback before you insert or unplug a connector, be it 6.35mm, 3.5mm or 4.4mm.

2.  The detection mechanism of N6ii will stop the playback when the 4.4mm (or 3.5mm) connector is pulled out by 1mm.  We find this adequate in protecting the player from short circuit when unplug a connector during playback, but we certainly agree that stop your playback before you unplug your connector is a good habit.  On the other hand, if your DAP does not have similar detection mechanism, this become a necessary operation habit.

3.  When you connect A02 or E02 to C9, always connect the short 4.4mm cable to C9 first, this will also reduce the risk of short circuit.

4.  The much bigger risk happens when you didn't plug in your 4.4mm connector completely, didn't aware that, and start playback.  This is almost certain that the circuit will be blown sooner or later.  In the worst case, the amplification will blow within several seconds.  Circuit designed with overload protection can last longer, maybe 1-2 minutes, maybe 4-5 minutes.  To better describe the problem, I can quote case (with reviewer ID removed) for your reference:


> Hi Andy,
> 
> i have the Yulong but there is a problem: I plugged my earphones into the 4.4 socket, but I could not hear music...it turns out the plug was not pushed in all the way, it clicked in, but there is no music playing... I checked the fuse, and it is fine, but I smelled a faint "burnt smell' coming from the uinit, and it does not play music. Tried the 1/4" output but same thing.





> Hi Andy,
> 
> This is unfortunate. So to my memory what happened was I plugged my 4.4 in, got no sound, pressed the 4.4 plug more firmly, and it clicked in. Then i tried to listen to music and there was no sound, still, but if I turn the volume knob all the way full, I could very faintly hear music, but that is it. At that moment I got a faint whiff of burnt wire or something, then immediately turned off the unit, unplugged it and checked the fuse, which was fine. I have to put my nose right against a vent to get that smell, so it is not strong. I plugged everything in 1 last time, still nothing, then I just packed it away and emailed you.



5.  Short circuit of 4.4mm cable can also happens in accident.  When you carry N6ii + C9 to a road trip,  if something pull or hook up with the interconnect and dislocate the connectors slightly, it might also trigger the R- and Ground short circuit.  Likewise, if your leave the N6ii and C9 on a table during playback, someone walked around and his hand swipe across your stack and dislocate the connectors slightly, short circuit can happen.

6.  The Cayin CS-44CSS is a 4.4mm cable with L+, L-, R+, R- connected but the ground sleeves are not wired.  However even with cables like this can still trigger short circuit described previously. So it doesn't matter whether the cables are rounded or not-ground, when improperly connected,  the connector itself can also caused short circuit.

Before I go to bed, I want to emphasise again that theoretically, cylinder shaped audio connectors with ground connection, such as 6.35mm and 3.5mm connectors, will suffer similar risk, so develop good habit to minimise short circuit is always recommended.

I can add this post to the FAQ links below the opening post of this thread, and I can add some related content to PDF version of N6ii or C9 user manual, but based on our experience, warning in user manaul didn't get a lot of attention.


----------



## Andykong

DaYooper said:


> Of course you did the "playing around" thing with the T01, how could you help yourselfe my tinker addicted friend? I noticed in the other photo you had the mode to pre. Are you using the T01 that way?
> 
> Oops, I thought I was replying to Whitigir's post.


Yes, I tried every combinations with different audio motherboards, T01 didn't work very well with Pre-amp input mode, so I didn't mention this combination when I discuss T01 with C9.


----------



## immortalsoul

Hi, I have a question for you guys, and I am sorry but is not related to this thread but I believe the most knowledgeable people are in this thread so, here we go. Do any of you guys know what type of cable is the one in the picture? Thank you!


----------



## bigbeans

immortalsoul said:


> Hi, I have a question for you guys, and I am sorry but is not related to this thread but I believe the most knowledgeable people are in this thread so, here we go. Do any of you guys know what type of cable is the one in the picture? Thank you!



looks like a SATIN AUDIO cable.


----------



## immortalsoul

bigbeans said:


> looks like a SATIN AUDIO cable.


It looks that you are correct. Thank you!


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 11, 2021)

Andykong said:


> In my opinion, T01 single-end line out to C9 with 3.5mm phone out is the best setting for T01, and it'll work well for a lot of IEM and some portable-friendly headphones, but I can understand user will want to keep the balanced option wide open, so maybe a thorough comparison of T01 single-end line out to C9 with SE to BAL conversion inside C9, against T01 balanced line out to C9 is a worthwhile exploration.





DaYooper said:


> Of course you did the "playing around" thing with the T01, how could you help yourselfe my tinker addicted friend? I noticed in the other photo you had the mode to pre. Are you using the T01 that way?
> 
> Oops, I thought I was replying to Whitigir's post.


Yes, I gotta make use of the Balanced 

Definitely the 3.5mm LO bypass the volume controls and pseudo amp but it will render the features of Dual DAC useless as it goes through differential stages.  True line out but only SE configuration according to the blocks.

The 4.4mm L/O is a pseudo L/O but according to the blocks, the T01 line out enabled or Pre by selecting Headphones out will utilize Both DAC without the differential stages.

Yeah, it doesn’t do as well as A02 for sure, but it isn’t Bad/Bad LoL!!! Perhaps Andy doesn’t like the PCM-1792 much .  The 4.4mm Certainly still provide great performances as a source and to those who love this DAC-PCM1792


----------



## immortalsoul

Whitigir said:


> Yes, I gotta make use of the Balanced
> 
> Definitely the 3.5mm LO bypass the volume controls and pseudo amp but it will render the features of Dual DAC useless as it goes through differential stages.  True line out but only SE configuration according to the blocks.
> 
> ...


So, you are saying that is better to go balanced even if you have a different amp,  for example I have the BX-2 plus amp


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 11, 2021)

immortalsoul said:


> So, you are saying that is better to go balanced even if you have a different amp,  for example I have the BX-2 plus amp


Yes, Balanced DAC is fully working with balanced out.  By using 3.5mm, you are not taking advantage of the 2X DAC implemented

Perhaps the next module that has true Balanced LO that bypass the Amp architecture would be E02, but I have been spending too much LOL

I still can’t bring myself to really slapping the Dx300 on the C9 for too long...both T01 and A02 deserves the stockings for sure.  I think it is because I am into imagings and textures just as much as soundstage.  So when soundstage is Huge and Vast but imagings are smeared .... it degrades the overall performances.  So I think IMO, I values imagings and textures a little more than soundstage alone

**BTW** due to the signature of the T01, the C9 will do best with Class AB and Solid States as under this mode, the tonal balances are not all out of whack while still being musical with great details


----------



## DaYooper

Whitigir said:


> Yes, Balanced DAC is fully working with balanced out.  By using 3.5mm, you are not taking advantage of the 2X DAC implemented
> 
> Perhaps the next module that has true Balanced LO that bypass the Amp architecture would be E02, but I have been spending too much LOL
> 
> I still can’t bring myself to really slapping the Dx300 on the C9 for too long...both T01 and A02 deserves the stockings for sure.  I think it is because I am into imagings and textures just as much as soundstage.  So when soundstage is Huge and Vast but imagings are smeared .... it degrades the overall performances.  So I think IMO, I values imagings and textures a little more than soundstage alone


Maybe I'm not seeing it right but it looks to me that each of the two dacs is for one, either right or left, channel each. If that's the case then 3.5 line out should still be using both dacs, right?


----------



## Whitigir

DaYooper said:


> Maybe I'm not seeing it right but it looks to me that each of the two dacs is for one, either right or left, channel each. If that's the case then 3.5 line out should still be using both dacs, right?


You are seeing it correctly.  However, in order to output Single Ended to 3.5mm.  The L- and R- active signals have to be pulled to ground , and hence wasted.  It does so by the differential stages


----------



## Andykong (Mar 11, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> Yes, I gotta make use of the Balanced
> 
> Definitely the 3.5mm LO bypass the volume controls and pseudo amp but it will render the features of Dual DAC useless as it goes through differential stages.  True line out but only SE configuration according to the blocks.
> 
> ...



The single-end of T01 utilise dual DAC.  The PCM1792A are set to mono mode, so each DAC will take care of one channel, and you have Left PCM1792A and Right PCM1792A in the signal path, and offers better Dynamic range and SNR when compare to using one DAC for both Left and right channel.


----------



## Whitigir

Listening to T01 , C9, and telling myself

How did I became a Cayin believer ? Thank you C9!!!


----------



## aaf evo

Whitigir said:


> Listening to T01 , C9, and telling myself
> 
> How did I became a Cayin believer ? Thank you C9!!!



Is there any moment where you use your N6ii alone without the C9 or do you keep that as a stack for the C9 and use your Max/300 for DAP use alone?


----------



## Whitigir

aaf evo said:


> Is there any moment where you use your N6ii alone without the C9 or do you keep that as a stack for the C9 and use your Max/300 for DAP use alone?


I do use T01 alone with IER Z1R, but I prefer it stacking with C9.  Somehow the Dx300 doesn’t do it to my satisfaction when paired with C9.  I leave dx30 and max on the sides for Stand alone when needed 

But recently it is all about C9 and N6ii time


----------



## aaf evo

Whitigir said:


> I do use T01 alone with IER Z1R, but I prefer it stacking with C9.  Somehow the Dx300 doesn’t do it to my satisfaction when paired with C9.  I leave dx30 and max on the sides for Stand alone when needed
> 
> But recently it is all about C9 and N6ii time



I’ll be selling my Max when I get a decent offer, I am tempted to pick up a N6ii and all the motherboards along with the C9.


----------



## Whitigir

aaf evo said:


> I’ll be selling my Max when I get a decent offer, I am tempted to pick up a N6ii and all the motherboards along with the C9.


Great values for the price to performances For sure


----------



## immortalsoul

Whitigir said:


> I do use T01 alone with IER Z1R, but I prefer it stacking with C9.  Somehow the Dx300 doesn’t do it to my satisfaction when paired with C9.  I leave dx30 and max on the sides for Stand alone when needed
> 
> But recently it is all about C9 and N6ii time


I am listening to Cayin N6ii with T01 as I am typing and I realize that I enjoy this motherboard more and more. I have yet to try it with an amplifier but it sounds good as it is. I believe the dac in this motherboard is implemented really nice and I enjoy it more than the E01 motherboard that I sold already because it didn't move me like T01. Sometimes a newer dac doesn't necessarily mean better sound


----------



## nb1970

> immortalsoul said:
> 
> 
> > I am listening to Cayin N6ii with T01 as I am typing and I realize that I enjoy this motherboard more and more. I have yet to try it with an amplifier but it sounds good as it is. I believe the dac in this motherboard is implemented really nice and I enjoy it more than the E01 motherboard that I sold already because it didn't move me like T01. Sometimes a newer dac doesn't necessarily mean better sound



This is all good to hear! Hoping to get a C9 next week and possibly an A02 with it, if available. I fell in love with the E01 straight away on the N6ii and prefer the sound of this to most of my other sources with IEMs. I have the T01 too so good to know this works perfectly well with the C9 just in case the A02 isn't available.

And I agree a newer DAC doesn't necessarily mean better (I really should give up on that chase!) - I still have the LPG which though of limited UI functionality is a great playback device.


----------



## immortalsoul

I just tried the 4.4 and yes it sounds impressive compared to 3.5. Thank you Witigir for the tip


----------



## Whitigir

immortalsoul said:


> I just tried the 4.4 and yes it sounds impressive compared to 3.5. Thank you Witigir for the tip


I am glad you are enjoying it  as much as I do


----------



## Shawnb

Andykong said:


> Thank you Whitigir for taking the time to warn fellow C9 about the potential risk of 4.4mm connector.  In fact I have also mentioned a similar case previously (*HERE*), that was a YULONG desktop All-in-one, and I have to stop the tour and relocate the reviewers to another group because of that, so indeed 4.4mm will cause short circuit situation that won't happens with XLR based connectors.
> 
> However, the risk is, at least theoretically, not unique to 4.4mm connectors.  It will also happens with 6.35mm, and 3.5mm connectors.  this is a design problem to all cylinder shaped audio connectors with ground connection, but 4.4mm has a higher rate of occurrence.
> 
> ...




Thank you for this. Wasn't aware of any of this. I've done #1 multiple times on my Max unaware it was even an issue. Won't be doing that again.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Mar 12, 2021)

I think it is useful to note that the “pause your DAP before plugging/unplugging your interconnect” suggestion is a generally good practice in keeping your DAP in good shape, and is NOT caused by the design flaw of C9. If you use some other external amps, the same procedure should be followed to protect your DAP.


----------



## lumdicks (Mar 12, 2021)

Damn! I have suffered from Headphone Fever after getting my C9, and just got a pair of Stellia after the Empyrean......

I promised it is my last purchase this year........ hopefully as I do not have much motive now to buy or replace any DAP or IEM, as everything of my collection sounds beautifully with C9 already.


----------



## greenmac

lumdicks said:


> Damn! I have suffered from Headphone Fever after getting my C9, and just got a pair of Stellia after the Empyrean......
> 
> I promised it is my last purchase this year........ hopefully as I do not have much motive now to buy or replace any DAP or IEM, as everything of my collection sounds beautifully with C9 already.


Love the stand, do you have a link please ?


----------



## xand

lumdicks said:


> Damn! I have suffered from Headphone Fever after getting my C9, and just got a pair of Stellia after the Empyrean......



Awesome!



lumdicks said:


> I promised it is my last purchase this year........ hopefully as I do not have much motive now to buy or replace any DAP or IEM, as everything of my collection sounds beautifully with C9 already.



I suggest demoing a Utopia..  (especially if you like the Stellia very much).


----------



## lumdicks

greenmac said:


> Love the stand, do you have a link please ?


Got it from a China seller on Taobao but sadly it won't ship international.

There are a number of similar products in Aliexpress as below:

https://m.aliexpress.com/wholesale/headphone+stand.html?osf=auto_suggest


----------



## lumdicks (Mar 12, 2021)

xand said:


> Awesome!
> 
> 
> 
> I suggest demoing a Utopia..  (especially if you like the Stellia very much).


Utopia is stunning but I look for a close back one in complement with my Empyrean, and seems that Stellia is a good choice of it.


----------



## zen87192

If anybody in the UK would like to buy an A02 Motherboard on its own I see that npaudio has them in stock. 
https://www.npaudio.uk/cayin-n6ii-a02-audio-module-in-stock


----------



## RTodd

lumdicks said:


> Damn! I have suffered from Headphone Fever after getting my C9, and just got a pair of Stellia after the Empyrean......
> 
> I promised it is my last purchase this year........ hopefully as I do not have much motive now to buy or replace any DAP or IEM, as everything of my collection sounds beautifully with C9 already.


It is only March right? That is going to take a commitment to not buy any of the new stuff that comes out this year.


----------



## Whitigir

RTodd said:


> It is only March right? That is going to take a commitment to not buy any of the new stuff that comes out this year.


That what I thought..I think he is still chasing that rabbit lol, and at full speed


----------



## DaYooper (Mar 12, 2021)

The big white rabbit? 
About six feet tall, smokes a hookah?


----------



## DaYooper

DaYooper said:


> The big white rabbit?
> About six feet tall, smokes a hookah?


I got that one wrong, it was a hookah-smoking caterpillar. Had to go listen to Grace sing it. See what y'all are doing? sending me into flashback mode.


----------



## RTodd

DaYooper said:


> I got that one wrong, it was a hookah-smoking caterpillar. Had to go listen to Grace sing it. See what y'all are doing? sending me into flashback mode.


Set your controls for the heart of the sun.


----------



## Shawnb

DaYooper said:


> I got that one wrong, it was a hookah-smoking caterpillar. Had to go listen to Grace sing it. See what y'all are doing? sending me into flashback mode.




One pill makes you larger
And one pill makes you small,
And the ones that mother gives you
Don't do anything at all.
Go ask Alice
When she's ten feet tall.
And if you go chasing rabbits
And you know you're going to fall,
Tell 'em a hookah smoking caterpillar
Has given you the call.
Call Alice
When she was just small.
When the men on the chessboard
Get up and tell you where to go
And you've just had some kind of mushroom
And your mind is moving low.
Go ask Alice
I think she'll know.
When logic and proportion
Have fallen sloppy dead,
And the White Knight is talking backwards
And the Red Queen's "off with her head!"
Remember what the dormouse said:
"Feed your head. Feed your head. Feed your head"


----------



## RTodd

Shawnb said:


> One pill makes you larger
> And one pill makes you small,
> And the ones that mother gives you
> Don't do anything at all.
> ...


Does anyone wright lyrics like this anymore?


----------



## DaYooper

RTodd said:


> Does anyone wright lyrics like this anymore?


Just the ones who made it to the bottom of the rabbit hole.


----------



## zen87192

Are there any negatives if I was to use a 3.5mm SE headphone cable converted to a 4.4mm Balanced via an adaptor or adaptor lead in to the C9?


----------



## bluestorm1992

zen87192 said:


> Are there any negatives if I was to use a 3.5mm SE headphone cable converted to a 4.4mm Balanced via an adaptor or adaptor lead in to the C9?


As I understand it, you should NEVER convert a SE cable to a balanced one. It will short the player/amp and damage it.


----------



## zen87192

Interesting.... As there are many converters on the market. Glad I checked to make sure. Thanks bluestorm1992.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

zen87192 said:


> Are there any negatives if I was to use a 3.5mm SE headphone cable converted to a 4.4mm Balanced via an adaptor or adaptor lead in to the C9?


This is one of the top DO NOT DO THIS recommendations on Head fi.    You can go from a balanced cable to a single end output, but not vice-versa due to the ground loop issue.   You will end up putting your amps at risk of shorting out.    I've never tried it for this warning, but it makes sense.


----------



## bluestorm1992

zen87192 said:


> Interesting.... As there are many converters on the market. Glad I checked to make sure. Thanks bluestorm1992.


Sure. You can always safely convert a balanced cable to a SE one. I believe there are most of the adapters for.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

zen87192 said:


> Interesting.... As there are many converters on the market. Glad I checked to make sure. Thanks bluestorm1992.


If you want to use a balanced source, get a balanced cable.    Most balanced terminations are different connector sizes so you can't make a mistake on accident.  But, there is a 3.5mm SE and 3.5mm balanced.  Using that connector incorrectly is where you are going to potentially go awry.    As a result, I never buy anything with 3.5mm balanced.   I either have 3.5mm or 6.3mm single end or 4-pin XLR, 2.5mm and 4.4mm balanced.   And, I have adapters to go from 4-pin XLR to 6.3mm, 3.5mm single end, 2.5mm and 4.4mm balanced.     Also,  I have adapters to go from 2.5mm => 3.5mm single end or 4.4mm balanced.

To stay out of trouble, only terminate unbalanced cables to 6.3mm or 3.5mm single end.   Balanced cables can be used for any termination with the correct adapter and they are plentiful.


----------



## zen87192

No probs.... I've just changed my IEM & cable order from 3.5mm SE to 2.5mm Balanced. Then ordered a 2.5mm to 4.4mm Balanced adaptor. Thanks to all!


----------



## Whitigir

It is interesting that the Battery modules has a dual rails mirror feedbacks regulator inside itself, and that the C9 will not turn on if it can not see the Battery modules.

So at the moment, there is potentials to modify the battery modules to take in possibly larger battery cells at the same nominal voltage as 18650 in it own housing by using the module and let it regulate the rails as needed.  

External power supply may not be possible due to the way this is setup


----------



## zen87192

Shame they only had a 2.5mm Balanced option available on this particular IEM kit. But at least my C9 &/or IEM won't fry!


----------



## RTodd

zen87192 said:


> Shame they only had a 2.5mm Balanced option available on this particular IEM kit. But at least my C9 &/or IEM won't fry!


When A&K gives up on 2.5 maybe it will start to become even more uncommon. 3.5SE is real common to. 4.4 balanced for IEMs seems like it is really gaining traction, my preference for portable.


----------



## zen87192

RTodd said:


> When A&K gives up on 2.5 maybe it will start to become even more uncommon. 3.5SE is real common to. 4.4 balanced for IEMs seems like it is really gaining traction, my preference for portable.


Yes. I agree. I did think it was pretty weird only offering this size (other than the 3.5mm SE). I also bought another IEM cable from the same retailer terminated with a 4.4mm Balanced plug as an upgrade to the one supplied... now 2.5mm Balanced... cable.


----------



## RTodd

zen87192 said:


> Yes. I agree. I did think it was pretty weird only offering this size (other than the 3.5mm SE). I also bought another IEM cable from the same retailer terminated with a 4.4mm Balanced plug as an upgrade to the one supplied... now 2.5mm Balanced... cable.


Was it Elysium?


----------



## zen87192 (Mar 12, 2021)

Oh gosh! No. Nowhere near that calibre yet. I've spent so much in the last three weeks with the N6ii with A02 then C9 Amp. Add to this a number of 18650 Batteries, Charger, Case, IEM and additional cable and IC's......
No.... I've only ordered my first wired IEM's from Penon to keep me going. The Orb. Added to that was a Penon Leo Plus 4.4mm Balanced IEM lead as an upgrade. I'm also saving for the Empire Ears Valkyrie MK II at the moment but am keeping my options open to others in this bracket. Also currently running a HiFiman Sundara.


----------



## bigbeans

Until my custom Corpse Cable 4.4mm cable comes in, this’ll have to do! Listening on Trailli (via ZEN DAC Signature), it gets overwhelmed by the power on balanced. What you see is close to maximum listening level for me. May need a 3.5mm retermination or just get a new cable.  

Don’t get me wrong, this sounds glorious!!


----------



## bluestorm1992

bigbeans said:


> Until my custom Corpse Cable 4.4mm cable comes in, this’ll have to do! Listening on Trailli (via ZEN DAC Signature), it gets overwhelmed by the power on balanced. What you see is close to maximum listening level for me. May need a 3.5mm retermination or just get a new cable.
> 
> Don’t get me wrong, this sounds glorious!!


Great set up! Have you tried to adjust the gain of the DAC? I am worried that a desktop DAC may be way too powerful.


----------



## bigbeans

bluestorm1992 said:


> Great set up! Have you tried to adjust the gain of the DAC? I am worried that a desktop DAC may be way too powerful.



I haven't actually. The desktop DAC is at max level (which I guess is line out?). Would it be ok to adjust the gain on the DAC in addition to using C9 volume?


----------



## bluestorm1992

bigbeans said:


> I haven't actually. The desktop DAC is at max level (which I guess is line out?). Would it be ok to adjust the gain on the DAC in addition to using C9 volume?


That's what I do. For example, even for DAPs, N6ii with A02 has different line-out gain levels, and changing it will dramatically change how loud the gear sounds. I have always kept it in medium gain instead of high gain when listening with IEMs as it will otherwise get too loud.


----------



## bigbeans

bluestorm1992 said:


> That's what I do. For example, even for DAPs, N6ii with A02 has different line-out gain levels, and changing it will dramatically change how loud the gear sounds. I have always kept it in medium gain instead of high gain when listening with IEMs as it will otherwise get too loud.


Hmmmm ok. It seems 12 oclock on the ZEN is perfect. I can get to 10 o'clock on C9. Thanks!


----------



## zen87192

Whoa! Look what's just arrived today! My spanking new N6ii + A02. Finally! It's absolutely awesome. Just connected it to my Tube Amp on low gain streaming Tidal and.... Yup.... that's what I was expecting. Absolute joy of sounds! All I need now is for time to fly until the C9 arrives. Until then... Tube Amp driven it is...


----------



## bigbeans

zen87192 said:


> Whoa! Look what's just arrived today! My spanking new N6ii + A02. Finally! It's absolutely awesome. Just connected it to my Tube Amp on low gain streaming Tidal and.... Yup.... that's what I was expecting. Absolute joy of sounds! All I need now is for time to fly until the C9 arrives. Until then... Tube Amp driven it is...



Is it fair to say...

"You'll Never Be The Same Again"?

aight...I'll see myself out


----------



## Whitigir

bigbeans said:


> Is it fair to say...
> 
> "You'll Never Be The Same Again"?
> 
> aight...I'll see myself out


I am never the same again, for the first time in a long time that I am eagerly awaiting Cayin new products announcements which never happened before.  Also, I don’t care much for newer DAP anymore lol...except Cayin ? Wait....how ?


----------



## bigbeans (Mar 13, 2021)

Update on Traillii with C9 (Balanced 4.4mm)

It seems there's a limit to how much amping the Traillii can take, regardless of how the DAC gain is set. If you go past 12 o'clock on C9, you will start to hear a series of blips as you move the volume wheel past 12, and you can even hear the feedback from the wheel (this occurred on Empire Odin as well).
In addition, if you start approaching 12 o'clock on C9 increase there is increase in background noise.

C9 does allow for fine adjustments, so not a huge deal, but still something to keep in mind. What I have done is revert back to maxing out gain on DAC, and adjust VERY finely on C9 for best audio performances. @Andykong explained how C9 has electronics to allow fine grain adjustments, so I will take advantage of this.

Edit: This happens with my TH900 as well.


----------



## RTodd (Mar 13, 2021)

bigbeans said:


> Update on Traillii with C9 (Balanced 4.4mm)
> 
> It seems there's a limit to how much amping the Traillii can take, regardless of how the DAC gain is set. If you go past 12 o'clock on C9, you will start to hear a series of blips as you move the volume wheel past 12, and you can even hear the feedback from the wheel (this occurred on Empire Odin as well).
> In addition, if you start approaching 12 o'clock on C9 increase there is increase in background noise.
> ...


Wonder if it is something related to the estat transformer and pushing the voltage over its design threshold? Do the blips sound like coming from the stats?


----------



## bigbeans

RTodd said:


> Wonder if it is something related to the estat transformer and pushing the voltage over its design threshold? Do the blips sound like coming from the stats?



Ive tried this with my TH900, get the same effect. It seems after 12 o’clock on balanced, it crosses some threshold

I’ve purchased a Cayin 4.4 to 3.5 adapter and see what results I get https://bit.ly/3rKfny5


----------



## Whitigir

bigbeans said:


> Ive tried this with my TH900, get the same effect. It seems after 12 o’clock on balanced, it crosses some threshold
> 
> I’ve purchased a Cayin 4.4 to 3.5 adapter and see what results I get https://bit.ly/3rKfny5


Over 12 o’clock on balanced high gain or in both gain ? You hear the Blips ?


----------



## bigbeans (Mar 13, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> Over 12 o’clock on balanced high gain or in both gain ? You hear the Blips ?



In low gain balanced.

Edit: Happens on MDR Z1R (little less pronounced), TH900.


----------



## Whitigir

It is true that I never turned the volume alone without music over 12:00 o’clock.  Mine is blipping over 1:00 or so with HD800s.  I think it is the volume control at works, and it stops when I stop rolling the wheel


----------



## bigbeans

Whitigir said:


> It is true that I never turned the volume alone without music over 12:00 o’clock.  Mine is blipping over 1:00 or so with HD800s.  I think it is the volume control at works, and it stops when I stop rolling the wheel


Exactly, that's what happens to my gear. Glad to see I'm not the only one. Not sure what causes this.


----------



## bluestorm1992

bigbeans said:


> Exactly, that's what happens to my gear. Glad to see I'm not the only one. Not sure what causes this.


Now that you have mentioned this, I recall similar experience with my gears as well. I considered this as a way of letting me fine-tune the volume. I think this is especially useful to prevent myself unintentionally adjusting the volume to be too high.


----------



## Whitigir

Oh well, trust me, this blips isn’t as bad as some “scratching noises” when turning the wheels


----------



## KevP

twister6 said:


> Just for confirmation since I was discussing this with another reviewer, anybody else with C9 and either EE Odin or Campfire Andro/Solaris sensitive IEMs who can comment on the hissing?


Yes. Odins/C9 quite noisy with hiss and you can hear when volume knob is turned sometimes. Getting a longer infer-connect, so the player can be held further away from the C9, seems to help on some of the noise.


----------



## xand

FWIW I can't hear any blips on utopia and dx300 to C9 even up to 2, and I have a 60cm interconnect but this is true even if I put the dx300 on top of the C9.


----------



## lumdicks

KevP said:


> Yes. Odins/C9 quite noisy with hiss and you can hear when volume knob is turned sometimes. Getting a longer infer-connect, so the player can be held further away from the C9, seems to help on some of the noise.







I found the occasional noise from some pairing improved a lot after using the rack to physically separate the source and the AMP.


----------



## xand

lumdicks said:


> I found the occasional noise from some pairing improved a lot after using the rack to physically separate the source and the AMP.



Oh time to put you back on the hook! How's the C9 compared to HA-6A?


----------



## lumdicks

xand said:


> Oh time to put you back on the hook! How's the C9 compared to HA-6A?


HaHa, luckily I do not have HA-6A.


----------



## xand

lumdicks said:


> HaHa, luckily I do not have HA-6A.


Ahhh. @DaYooper ! Looking forward to your impressions... 

Maybe if you get in a ha300 too...


----------



## Whitigir

I think I know why some units has the blips and some doesn’t, but I also think that it is commons.  The volume attenuations on the C9 is 2 stages, first of all, it is an analog Alp potentiometers, and secondly that it also has electrical attenuations.  The blip is likely from the analog pot


----------



## zen87192

What happens when you add an N6ii with an E01 Motherboard with has Class A/AB to a C9 with Class A/AB?
Does this double up the A/AB sound?
If we set Class A on the N6ii and Class AB on the C9 what happens? Just asking so I know in advance when my C9 arrives what I could be listening to and why/how.


----------



## immortalsoul

zen87192 said:


> What happens when you add an N6ii with an E01 Motherboard with has Class A/AB to a C9 with Class A/AB?
> Does this double up the A/AB sound?
> If we set Class A on the N6ii and Class AB on the C9 what happens? Just asking so I know in advance when my C9 arrives what I could be listening to and why/how.


The E01 doesn't have line out


----------



## Whitigir

That can only be used as Pre-amp in.  I don’t see it having line out.

If so, then yes, class A preamp into Class A power amp is a double class A system.  It is pretty common on large speakers.


----------



## twister6

Whitigir said:


> That can only be used as Pre-amp in.  I don’t see it having line out.
> 
> If so, then yes, class A preamp into Class A power amp is a double class A system.  It is pretty common on large speakers.



Wait, I thought if you connect Class A to Class A, it will cancel each other out, making it *totally classless*? 

_Sorry, my Monday afternoon humor, carried over from the "bird" thread LOL!!_!

But jokes aside, this will be one serious double-amping?!


----------



## Whitigir

twister6 said:


> Wait, I thought if you connect Class A to Class A, it will cancel each other out, making it *totally classless*?
> 
> _Sorry, my Monday afternoon humor, carried over from the "bird" thread LOL!!_!
> 
> But jokes aside, this will be one serious double-amping?!


Wait until you have triple A  (AAA)


----------



## zen87192 (Mar 15, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> That can only be used as Pre-amp in.  I don’t see it having line out.
> 
> If so, then yes, class A preamp into Class A power amp is a double class A system.  It is pretty common on large speakers.


No probs. I've decided to go for an E02 as an option with my A02. The 4.4mm and Line Out is much more useful as well as listening to a dual ES9038Q2M DAC as a sound signature change from the Dual AK4497EQ in the A02. Really looking forward to listening soon. In addition, I am able to use the N6ii on its own when fitted with the E02 without the C9.


----------



## bluestorm1992

A night to play with new interconnects from @Eric Chong !


----------



## masahito24@chart

bluestorm1992 said:


> A night to play with new interconnects from @Eric Chong !


Any impressions? I got a Iliad and Socrates ordered, hopefully they'll arrive soon.


----------



## bluestorm1992

masahito24@chart said:


> Any impressions? I got a Iliad and Socrates ordered, hopefully they'll arrive soon.


So far so good. The Iliad makes certain parts of the vocals less “in your face” in the tracks I have tried. It is certainly different from the stock cooper cable, but I am still processing the best way to describe it.

The Plato is much easier to identify: It brings extra clarity to the sound with a touch of sweet in vocals.


----------



## masahito24@chart

bluestorm1992 said:


> So far so good. The Iliad makes certain parts of the vocals less “in your face” in the tracks I have tried. It is certainly different from the stock cooper cable, but I am still processing the best way to describe it.
> 
> The Plato is much easier to identify: It brings extra clarity to the sound with a touch of sweet in vocals.


Nice to hear, the Iliad may pair well with the Diana Phi. I was actually thinking about trying all the different offerings from Eletech and I may stray down that path sooner than later. Gotta taste all the colors of the rainbow lol


----------



## bluestorm1992

masahito24@chart said:


> Nice to hear, the Iliad may pair well with the Diana Phi. I was actually thinking about trying all the different offerings from Eletech and I may stray down that path sooner than later. Gotta taste all the colors of the rainbow lol


That would be a good idea! I am also exploring their whole collection as well. Also, they are planning to launch a series of headphone cables later this year.

A quick additional note, the Iliad seems to improve the imaging compared to the stock IC, and yes it is a strange “combo effect” but with a wonderful outcome: I can feel that the vocals are less “in my face” but the imaging or emotion conveyed by the vocals are better.


----------



## masahito24@chart

bluestorm1992 said:


> That would be a good idea! I am also exploring their whole collection as well. Also, they are planning to launch a series of headphone cables later this year.
> 
> A quick additional note, the Iliad seems to improve the imaging compared to the stock IC, and yes it is a strange “combo effect” but with a wonderful outcome: I can feel that the vocals are less “in my face” but the imaging or emotion conveyed by the vocals are better.


Headphone cables!? I'll have to keep a close eye to see how that develops. My MDR-Z1R and HD800 will need one in the near future.


----------



## bluestorm1992

masahito24@chart said:


> Headphone cables!? I'll have to keep a close eye to see how that develops. My MDR-Z1R and HD800 will need one in the near future.


Yup! Should see some updates in the second half of this year.


----------



## twister6

Been going back and forth between IC cables tonight.  In my original review I compared stock cable to DHC Silver and Romi Audio Sensation IC cables.  Today, received @Eric Chong Eletech Iliad 6W cable, full TRRRS connection including GND.  It is hard to judge the benefit of ground connection if you are not comparing 4W vs 6W versions, but in theory a ground interconnect wire between plugs which is twisted/wrapped around signal wires should give you some EMI shielding.

What I do hear is DHC Silver making the sound denser and warmer (as I mentioned in my C9 review).  Romi Audio IC makes sound brighter, more revealing. Iliad is closer to Romi Audio in tonality, though a little more natural/organic.  But one difference that I'm hearing, and will check again tomorrow with fresh ears, is more depth with Iliad cable.  C9 widens the sound, I heard that with every source I paired up this amp with.  But this short interconnect cable also gives sound a little more depth.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I earlier today posted our C9 review on HFN

https://www.headfonia.com/cayin-c9-review/



Let me know if you have any questions or remarks


----------



## gonzfi

Ultrainferno said:


> I earlier today posted our C9 review on HFN
> 
> https://www.headfonia.com/cayin-c9-review/
> 
> ...


When you used the V590 as a pre amp into the C9 did you have to change the gain settings?

Top review by the way👌


----------



## Ultrainferno

No, it's not necessary, even with the highest output gain on the V590, there's no problem. But, you can play with it if you want more "range".
And thank you!


----------



## bluestorm1992

After seeing that the AK SP2000 has become Roon compatible, I placed an order of it and I am planning to sell my Hugo 2.  

I should receive it over the weekend. I know that some users of C9 own SP2000 and have shared their thoughts, but I may still share some of my own thoughts especially in its comparison with N6ii (A02) when paired with C9.


----------



## DaYooper

I was so glad to see Roon on the DAP that I upgraded my Tidal subscription to Super Dooper stuff.


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 16, 2021)

So, I have decided to make my 3rd and final end-game Interconnect.  *This is properly shielded*, not only Coaxial, but also taped, and with Litz Copper by Cardas as well 

Connectors are Furutech indisputable Rhodium plated

Solder Is Oyaide Indisputable SS-47

Ofcourse OCC Litz copper by Cardas and 24Awg per conductor


----------



## bigbeans

Burning in Cayin C9 with iFi Zen DAC Signature. The 4.4mm output on the Zen DAC is made for the C9, thanks ifi!

Also: Preamp mode in C9 makes Zen DAC TWICE as useful. Can use the smooth knob on the Zen to adjust volume, excited to try this out.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Mar 16, 2021)

bigbeans said:


> Burning in Cayin C9 with iFi Zen DAC Signature. The 4.4mm output on the Zen DAC is made for the C9, thanks ifi!
> 
> Also: Preamp mode in C9 makes Zen DAC TWICE as useful. Can use the smooth knob on the Zen to adjust volume, excited to try this out.


Saw your WA7 in the background. Do you prefer Zen+C9 over it?

The sizes of Zen and C9 fit quite nicely together! I have tried C9 with full-size DACs and that somewhat looks odd.


----------



## bigbeans

bluestorm1992 said:


> Saw your WA7 in the background. Do you prefer Zen+C9 over it?
> 
> The sizes of Zen and C9 fit quite nicely together! I have tried C9 with full-size DACs and that somewhat looks odd.


WA7 has more tubey sound, C9 sounds a little faster. But C9 is slightly more sweeter focused sound. WA7 just kinda envelopes you.
It depends on the listening session to be honest, I’ve been selecting C9 more because it’s a tad tighter.

If I need to be lulled, with a richer sound I’ll choose WA7.


----------



## nelava17

bigbeans said:


> Burning in Cayin C9 with iFi Zen DAC Signature. The 4.4mm output on the Zen DAC is made for the C9, thanks ifi!
> 
> Also: Preamp mode in C9 makes Zen DAC TWICE as useful. Can use the smooth knob on the Zen to adjust volume, excited to try this out.


Looks really nice...now you've got me wanting to try this combination...thanks!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I tried Roon yesterday on the SP2000, but honestly the only use I see for it is you use the SP2K in your home setup as a dac with the LO.
How are you guys planning to use it?


----------



## mammal

I considered to buy it as a replacement to 2go to make my Hugo 2 "wireless", and then feed it from SP1K/SP2K via USB out.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Ultrainferno said:


> I tried Roon yesterday on the SP2000, but honestly the only use I see for it is you use the SP2K in your home setup as a dac with the LO.
> How are you guys planning to use it?


This is exactly my intended use case for it.


----------



## DaYooper (Mar 17, 2021)

I dunno, I kinda like being able to stick my Roon stream in my pocket and walk the 30 feet or so to refill my coffee cup. Maybe even take my headphones into the water closet.

That would be more difficult when stacked.


----------



## mammal

@DaYooper you are not alone, people have been asking about this since 2017.


----------



## bigbeans

To Empy Owners with C9.

I'm thinking of getting an Empyrean at some point (the headphone that got away). How does C9 fair with it (balanced mode)? Do you use hi or low gain? Thanks.


----------



## Ultrainferno (Mar 17, 2021)

bigbeans said:


> To Empy Owners with C9.
> 
> I'm thinking of getting an Empyrean at some point (the headphone that got away). How does C9 fair with it (balanced mode)? Do you use hi or low gain? Thanks.


This


----------



## bluestorm1992

bigbeans said:


> To Empy Owners with C9.
> 
> I'm thinking of getting an Empyrean at some point (the headphone that got away). How does C9 fair with it (balanced mode)? Do you use hi or low gain? Thanks.


I believe @lumdicks just acquired this pairing.


----------



## lumdicks

bigbeans said:


> To Empy Owners with C9.
> 
> I'm thinking of getting an Empyrean at some point (the headphone that got away). How does C9 fair with it (balanced mode)? Do you use hi or low gain? Thanks.


C9 pairs perfectly with Empy and I usually play it at high gain at a volume around 12 o'clock. Throughout all modes I prefer Tube Mode at Class AB. Get it and you will never be regret with this pairing.


----------



## bluestorm1992

lumdicks said:


> C9 pairs perfectly with Empy and I usually play it at high gain at a volume around 12 o'clock. Throughout all modes I prefer Tube Mode at Class AB. Get it and you will never be regret with this pairing.


You are up at 4am in Hong Kong, or you have not slept yet?


----------



## bigbeans

lumdicks said:


> C9 pairs perfectly with Empy and I usually play it at high gain at a volume around 12 o'clock. Throughout all modes I prefer Tube Mode at Class AB. Get it and you will never be regret with this pairing.


Cheers, thanks. Exactly the push I need hahaha


----------



## lumdicks (Mar 17, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> You are up at 4am in Hong Kong, or you have not slept yet?


UEFA Champions League night.........with my Stellia and Topping DX7 Pro.


----------



## feverfive

lumdicks said:


> UEFA Champion League night.........with my Stellia and Topping DX7 Pro.


_Dang...nice setup for listening to soccer telecast_ 














yea, I am kidding


----------



## nelava17

bigbeans said:


> To Empy Owners with C9.
> 
> I'm thinking of getting an Empyrean at some point (the headphone that got away). How does C9 fair with it (balanced mode)? Do you use hi or low gain? Thanks.


I also have the Empyrean, and think it is an excellent match-up with the C9.  I use High Gain, Tube Mode, and Class A.  You can also switch between the leather and cloth pads on the Empyrean to see what you like (I have settled on the leather pads when using with the C9).


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Mar 18, 2021)

Cayin C9 and ZMF VC scheduled to go to Chris @ Bad Guy Good Audio Review. Let us see how Chris thinks and get more people to know Cayin C9. 

Edit: probably won’t happen now. Just found out that he is in Japan...


----------



## Joseph Lin

Can someone point me to the right direction of where to purchase C9? I am in US, MusicTek and Audio46 are offering pre-oreder but I will travel soon. Thanks.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Joseph Lin said:


> Can someone point me to the right direction of where to purchase C9? I am in US, MusicTek and Audio46 are offering pre-oreder but I will travel soon. Thanks.


How long will be you traveling? C9 won’t be back in stock until the end of this month.


----------



## iFi audio

bigbeans said:


> Burning in Cayin C9 with iFi Zen DAC Signature. The 4.4mm output on the Zen DAC is made for the C9, thanks ifi!



Sure, our pleasure, enjoy


----------



## twister6

Joseph Lin said:


> Can someone point me to the right direction of where to purchase C9? I am in US, MusicTek and Audio46 are offering pre-oreder but I will travel soon. Thanks.


They are on pre-order because the first production batch was sold out right away, thus Cayin authorized retailers are waiting now for the second batch.


----------



## Joseph Lin

bluestorm1992 said:


> How long will be you traveling? C9 won’t be back in stock until the end of this month.


In a month. I do not want to pre-order but not being able to receive it while I am away. I won't be back until end of August.


----------



## decur

What are you guys using for a case for c9? for tossing into a backpack for on the go...


----------



## bluestorm1992

decur said:


> What are you guys using for a case for c9? for tossing into a backpack for on the go...


The official case should be released very soon. Right now I am using a DDHifi storage case.


----------



## decur

bluestorm1992 said:


> The official case should be released very soon. Right now I am using a DDHifi storage case.


Looks great,
do you have the link for this case?


----------



## bluestorm1992

decur said:


> Looks great,
> do you have the link for this case?


I just checked it and it seems to be sold out. The ifi itraveller seems to be an alternative option.


----------



## bluestorm1992

decur said:


> Looks great,
> do you have the link for this case?


Found it. They’ve made a new one. Just search “DDHifi storage bag” on Amazon and you will find it.


----------



## Andykong

Joseph Lin said:


> Can someone point me to the right direction of where to purchase C9? I am in US, MusicTek and Audio46 are offering pre-oreder but I will travel soon. Thanks.



Hopefully we can roll out our second production batch by next week.


----------



## bigbeans




----------



## bluestorm1992 (Mar 19, 2021)

Posting some impressions of SP2000 and C9. Most of them have been mentioned by fellow C9 users, but just want to add one more data point.

SP2000 can benefit from adding a C9 to the chain, even in terms of driving IEMs. Essentially all the aspects of the music improve: The bass is higher, mids with better textures, and trebles further extend. Soundstage and overall clarity improve. Put it simply, with SP2000 alone, IEM still listens like an IEM. With C9, the boundary between IEM and full-size headphones becomes blurry to me.
SP2000 is a super convenient source to pair with C9 if you are a Roon user. Tidal/Spotify works very well without saying.
N6ii + A02 and SP2000 as the source sound differently. N6ii +A02 seems to have better clarity, and the two offer different sound signatures. Will need more time to be able to talk about the exact differences.


----------



## Shawnb

Andykong said:


> Hopefully we can roll out our second production batch by next week.



Those will be sold out in a month, if not already from “pre-orders”. Nice!


----------



## bluestorm1992

Shawnb said:


> Those will be sold out in a month, if not already from “pre-orders”. Nice!


True, and I think these are not even enough for the 300 pre-order/back-ordered units. Cayin needs to make and stock more!!


----------



## LabelH

bluestorm1992 said:


> Posting some impressions of SP2000 and C9. Most of them have been mentioned by fellow C9 users, but just want to add one more data point.
> 
> SP2000 can benefit from adding a C9 to the chain, even in terms of driving IEMs. Essentially all the aspects of the music improve: The bass is higher, mids with better textures, and trebles further extend. Soundstage and overall clarity improve. Put it simply, with SP2000 alone, IEM still listens like an IEM. With C9, the boundary between IEM and full-size headphones becomes blurry to me.
> SP2000 is a super convenient source to pair with C9 if you are a Roon user. Tidal/Spotify works very well without saying.
> N6ii + A02 and SP2000 as the source sound differently. N6ii +A02 seems to have better clarity, and the two offer different sound signatures. Will need more time to be able to talk about the exact differences.


I personally use standard phone out at 80/140 and C9 around 1-2 'clock. I prefer this rather line out


----------



## decur

Thank you


----------



## kwilkins

LabelH said:


> I personally use standard phone out at 80/140 and C9 around 1-2 'clock. I prefer this rather line out


What do you prefer about this method?  Any downsides?


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> True, and I think these are not even enough for the 300 pre-order/back-ordered units. Cayin needs to make and stock more!!


I am waiting for battery module LOL!!


----------



## Whitigir

So @Andykong , today I have let my C9 go without charging or turning on for 24 hours or so.  It just simply won’t turn on, until I connect the usb C charger and the LED is blinking.  Then I can unplug and turn it on ?
Is this some kind of operation mode that isn’t in the manual ?


----------



## zen87192 (Mar 19, 2021)

Ready and waiting to 'lock 'n load' batteries. Looking forward to the battery modules as well Whitigir. I just hope they won't cost too much.


----------



## DaYooper

Whitigir said:


> So @Andykong , today I have let my C9 go without charging or turning on for 24 hours or so.  It just simply won’t turn on, until I connect the usb C charger and the LED is blinking.  Then I can unplug and turn it on ?
> Is this some kind of operation mode that isn’t in the manual ?


Isn't that the protection mode?


----------



## Whitigir

DaYooper said:


> Isn't that the protection mode?


Good question! I think the protection mode only happened when listening and charging ? I never did that.


----------



## bigbeans

The C9 is preemptively protecting itself against Whitigir. It’s only a matter of time until he cracks it open and modifies it


----------



## DaYooper

bigbeans said:


> The C9 is preemptively protecting itself against Whitigir. It’s only a matter of time until he cracks it open and modifies it


----------



## LabelH

kwilkins said:


> What do you prefer about this method?  Any downsides?


It's having more control in high volume and less aggressive sounding than line-out to my preference.
The downsides, line-out seems have blacker background and clarity than phone out.


----------



## Shawnb

bigbeans said:


> The C9 is preemptively protecting itself against Whitigir. It’s only a matter of time until he cracks it open and modifies it



I'm actually shocked he's gone this long without modding it in some way. Is there any gear he owns that he hasn't modded?


----------



## kwilkins

LabelH said:


> It's having more control in high volume and less aggressive sounding than line-out to my preference.
> The downsides, line-out seems have blacker background and clarity than phone out.


Thanks, I'll give it a try.


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 19, 2021)

Shawnb said:


> I'm actually shocked he's gone this long without modding it in some way. Is there any gear he owns that he hasn't modded?


I have been modding it all along including, heat sinks, new batteries, new interconnects....  just no invasive processes yet.

I think this protective mode happens due to the Ground-shield-Ground on this 3rd interconnect Kind.  The so called the right kind of shield by @twister6 .

It wouldn’t turn on eventhough the battery is inside and full.  Unless the Power connector is plugged in on the C9 itself and the LeD start charging, until then I can unplug and turn it on.  However, when I turned off the C9, connected both A02+C9 to a charger and it wouldn’t even charge.  All LED shows full and the batteries are not fully charged. 
Until I Either remove the IC or only charge one device A02 Or C9 alone

It is interesting to see why Ground are implemented on both the A02 and the C9 but then can easily trigger protection mode on the C9.  Why ?

**So far, using regular no ground IC is no problems by far....never had protection engaged unless listening and charging together


----------



## iFi audio

bluestorm1992 said:


> I just checked it and it seems to be sold out. The ifi itraveller seems to be an alternative option.



Yup, that's ours


----------



## gonzfi

So can I just check... is there any issue using a c9 and a dx300 with a 4.4mm balanced line out connection?


----------



## MarkParity

gonzfi said:


> So can I just check... is there any issue using a c9 and a dx300 with a 4.4mm balanced line out connection?


Somebody up there ^ broke a DX300 doing just that. I wouldn't do it myself, I know from experience sometimes warranties look good on paper but actually claiming for damage may be a different matter.


----------



## Whitigir

gonzfi said:


> So can I just check... is there any issue using a c9 and a dx300 with a 4.4mm balanced line out connection?





MarkParity said:


> Somebody up there ^ broke a DX300 doing just that. I wouldn't do it myself, I know from experience sometimes warranties look good on paper but actually claiming for damage may be a different matter.


I use this combo of C9 and dx300 from time to time and I am fine.  There are others as well


----------



## twister6

gonzfi said:


> So can I just check... is there any issue using a c9 and a dx300 with a 4.4mm balanced line out connection?


Not, as long as you don't set dx300 line out to high gain; better keep it on low gain.


----------



## Shawnb

twister6 said:


> Not, as long as you don't set dx300 line out to high gain; better keep it on low gain.



I assume the same would be true of the Max? Keep it low gain just to be safe.


----------



## Whitigir

Shawnb said:


> I assume the same would be true of the Max? Keep it low gain just to be safe.


Yes, and it sounds best in low gain with max anyways


----------



## MFHRaptor

So.. Right now, I'm between 2 choices; either go with:

1) *Lotoo PAW 6000* + *Cayin C9*
                 or
2)* Lotoo PAW Gold Touch* alone and be done with it!

My only concern is sound quality alone. You can tell I like Lotoo stuff and would like to have their "house sound".

Can someone help?


----------



## RTodd (Mar 21, 2021)

MFHRaptor said:


> So.. Right now, I'm between 2 choices; either go with:
> 
> 1) *Lotoo PAW 6000* + *Cayin C9*
> or
> ...


Sound wise the Touch by a significant margin. For me 2 out of 10 songs I hear the benefit of the touch on macro and micro detail. Busy music benefits. Both have the house sound. I am not sure about this, do not believe the C9 is going to correct that. The P6K wins for convenience and I like the design better it is cleaner smaller lighter not as gaudy. Comes down to your library, demo all three if you can.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Mar 21, 2021)

MFHRaptor said:


> So.. Right now, I'm between 2 choices; either go with:
> 
> 1) *Lotoo PAW 6000* + *Cayin C9*
> or
> ...


Based on my general experience, DAP+C9 will usually surpass ANY standalone DAP in SQ. For me, I even slightly prefer N6i + C9 over LP P6 Pro.

I have owned and sold LP6K and LPGT. I think the difference between them in SQ is noticeable but not day and night. Adding a C9 is day and night.


----------



## RTodd (Mar 21, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> Based on my general experience, DAP+C9 will usually surpass ANY standalone DAP in SQ. For me, I even slightly prefer N6i + C9 over LP P6 Pro.
> 
> I have owned and sold LP6K and LPGT. I think the difference between them in SQ is noticeable but not day and night. Adding a C9 is day and night.


That said if you do not want to stack on the go. And decide not to add the C9, which would you prefer. Agree not night and day, the P6K sounds great really, when the music gets real complicated or there is a dramatic building of a wall of sound throughout the tune, all next level daps sound better for that than P6K. I typed wrong above P6P instead of P6K sorry for the confusion, fixed it. That said I chose the L&P because it sounded better to me than the Lotoo touch and the design, but it was real close. I kept my P6K and use it often.


----------



## jonstatt

bluestorm1992 said:


> Found it. They’ve made a new one. Just search “DDHifi storage bag” on Amazon and you will find it.



Carful with this as they make several cases that look similar with different configuration.  The DD2021 is almost a perfect fit for the C9 but no room for a DAP. The 2020 is larger but I don't have one to try if it can take c9 and a dap.


----------



## jonstatt

bluestorm1992 said:


> Posting some impressions of SP2000 and C9. Most of them have been mentioned by fellow C9 users, but just want to add one more data point.
> 
> SP2000 can benefit from adding a C9 to the chain, even in terms of driving IEMs. Essentially all the aspects of the music improve: The bass is higher, mids with better textures, and trebles further extend. Soundstage and overall clarity improve. Put it simply, with SP2000 alone, IEM still listens like an IEM. With C9, the boundary between IEM and full-size headphones becomes blurry to me.
> SP2000 is a super convenient source to pair with C9 if you are a Roon user. Tidal/Spotify works very well without saying.
> N6ii + A02 and SP2000 as the source sound differently. N6ii +A02 seems to have better clarity, and the two offer different sound signatures. Will need more time to be able to talk about the exact differences.


Ah! Now you see what I said about 50 pages back is true, that the SP2000 loses clarity in line out mode. This was clear to see with the N8 comparison and also A02.


----------



## kwilkins

jonstatt said:


> Ah! Now you see what I said about 50 pages back is true, that the SP2000 loses clarity in line out mode. This was clear to see with the N8 comparison and also A02.


What mode are you using the SP2000 in?


----------



## nelava17

Shawnb said:


> I assume the same would be true of the Max? Keep it low gain just to be safe.


I have used the DX220 Max - 4.4mm Line Out on High Gain (I am assuming the High Gain setting impacts the Line Out and the Phone Out, but not sure on this)...and also had the C9 set to High Gain...with no issues.  I did have the DAC volume on the DX220 Max set to 135 (of 150), so 90% of the DAC volume.


----------



## jonstatt

kwilkins said:


> What mode are you using the SP2000 in?



Balanced 4.4 line out setting at 6v. The issue is simply the sp2k does not have dedicated line out circuitry. This result is expected. SP2k still sounds great with C9 , its just not the best as a line out source.


----------



## MSA1133

Guys, anyone has the C9 and the Romi BX-2 Plus that could compare their Class A amps? Other than the difference in power, I haven’t read any comparisons. 

The Korg Tubes are a definite plus for the C9, but it’s something to think about when comparing a $700 USD vs a $2000 USD portable amps.


----------



## jmills8

MSA1133 said:


> Guys, anyone has the C9 and the Romi BX-2 Plus that could compare their Class A amps? Other than the difference in power, I haven’t read any comparisons.
> 
> The Korg Tubes are a definite plus for the C9, but it’s something to think about when comparing a $700 USD vs a $2000 USD portable amps.


Buy both then sale one , then sale the other then buy both versions 2 then repeat.


----------



## Nostoi

MSA1133 said:


> Guys, anyone has the C9 and the Romi BX-2 Plus that could compare their Class A amps? Other than the difference in power, I haven’t read any comparisons.
> 
> The Korg Tubes are a definite plus for the C9, but it’s something to think about when comparing a $700 USD vs a $2000 USD portable amps.


I have the BX2 Plus and the C9 on pre-order. Will gladly provide a comparison when it comes.


----------



## MSA1133

Nostoi said:


> I have the BX2 Plus and the C9 on pre-order. Will gladly provide a comparison when it comes.



Thank you! Really appreciate it! You’d be doing me and many other readers a great favor!


@jmills8


----------



## bluestorm1992

Just saw this from Cayin: The second batch of C9 will start shipping *tomorrow* to pre-order customers!


----------



## Nostoi

bluestorm1992 said:


> Just saw this from Cayin: The second batch of C9 will start shipping *tomorrow* to pre-order customers!


Excellent news, thanks for this.


----------



## zen87192

bluestorm1992 said:


> Just saw this from Cayin: The second batch of C9 will start shipping *tomorrow* to pre-order customers!


Gosh! That's great news! I hope I'm one of the lucky ones on the list! I have everything ready but this.... Fingers crossed!


----------



## zen87192

I think I need to join Face'ache to get these updates! Sometimes it seems to be useful.


----------



## twister6

MSA1133 said:


> Guys, anyone has the C9 and the Romi BX-2 Plus that could compare their Class A amps? Other than the difference in power, I haven’t read any comparisons.
> 
> The Korg Tubes are a definite plus for the C9, but it’s something to think about when comparing a $700 USD vs a $2000 USD portable amps.



I covered it in my C9 review, scroll down to comparison section, I have brief notes in there.


----------



## MSA1133

twister6 said:


> I covered it in my C9 review, scroll down to comparison section, I have brief notes in there.



Oh wow, thank you! I'll check it out. 

But, I'll hide my wallet first!


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Mar 23, 2021)

With the approval from Cayin, I am sharing a pic of the current production line of C9. It is a semi-automated machine to install the back glass/cover of C9. This machine is developed by Cayin themselves. It has also been used to install and secure the displays in other Cayin devices.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Mar 23, 2021)

Some more pics to follow. The production of C9 is at full speed now. Pre-order units have started to be shipped out since yesterday. It is expected that all the 300 pre-order units can be made and shipped out by next Wednesday.


----------



## CANiSLAYu

Are the leather cases being shipped out as well?


----------



## bluestorm1992

CANiSLAYu said:


> Are the leather cases being shipped out as well?


Very soon! The leather case has been launched in China already. I think it is more a matter of time for Andrew to receive them.

Also, the battery tray will be available very soon, right after the pre-order units have all been shipped out.


----------



## bigbeans

When can we expect “Member of Trade: Cayin” badge next to your profile @bluestorm1992


----------



## bluestorm1992

bigbeans said:


> When can we expect “Member of Trade: Cayin” badge next to your profile @bluestorm1992


I have been lurking in several Hifi groups, not just Cayin.   Happy to keep everyone posted.


----------



## bigbeans

bluestorm1992 said:


> I have been lurking in several Hifi groups, not just Cayin.   Happy to keep everyone posted.


Haha yes, I’ve seen you in the Luxury Precision W2 thread. Just teasin’ 

Thanks for helping and supporting the community, we all appreciate your generosity!


----------



## lumdicks

bluestorm1992 said:


> Very soon! The leather case has been launched in China already. I think it is more a matter of time for Andrew to receive them.
> 
> Also, the battery tray will be available very soon, right after the pre-order units have all been shipped out.





Got my leather case last week. Perfect fit with top class workmanship, and the heat dissipator works well too.


----------



## zen87192

lumdicks said:


> Got my leather case last week. Perfect fit with top class workmanship, and the heat dissipator works well too.


May I ask where you sourced your leather case from please?


----------



## lumdicks

zen87192 said:


> May I ask where you sourced your leather case from please?


It is being sold by major dealers in Hong Kong so can get it quite easily here.


----------



## zen87192

lumdicks said:


> It is being sold by major dealers in Hong Kong so can get it quite easily here.


Ok. Thanks. I will try to locate the major dealers in Hong Kong and see if they can ship to the UK.


----------



## Whitigir

lumdicks said:


> Got my leather case last week. Perfect fit with top class workmanship, and the heat dissipator works well too.


How does the heat dissipate if it isn’t being conducted from an anodized surface to another metal surface by an efficient thermal conductor like thermal paste ?

I logically think it would be more trapped inside rather than dissipating, and the case is just for looking pretty.  Now if you take this and put in your backpack then it is another heat accumulation instance as well

Ofcourse with the powerful heat being generated on my hand in class A and Tube combo, it would try to vent and dissipate itself as much as possible.  The proof is that after 2 hours under this mode, the chassis toward the battery tray is Also heated up.  So when using the case and seeing “a little heat” doesn’t mean this much heat is being vented out, but rather being trapped in and it is just trying to get out.

Anyways, this case will work if you peel away the aluminum fins, put the case over and then thermal paste heat sinks in replacements to the aluminum fins.  However, by using thermal paste and heat sinks alone would be a much better alternative for heat dissipation.....except it doesn’t have that nice looking of the case

When can I expect my battery module ? And how much ? @bluestorm1992


----------



## lumdicks

Whitigir said:


> How does the heat dissipate if it isn’t being conducted from an anodized surface to another metal surface by an efficient thermal conductor like thermal paste ?
> 
> I logically think it would be more trapped inside rather than dissipating, and the case is just for looking pretty.  Now if you take this and put in your backpack then it is another heat accumulation instance as well
> 
> ...


Shall try to perform some experiment by using my infra red thermometer (a must have under COVID time) for operating temperature with and without the case.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> How does the heat dissipate if it isn’t being conducted from an anodized surface to another metal surface by an efficient thermal conductor like thermal paste ?
> 
> I logically think it would be more trapped inside rather than dissipating, and the case is just for looking pretty.  Now if you take this and put in your backpack then it is another heat accumulation instance as well
> 
> ...


I would say early next month. The price is not going to be too cheap as the tray will include the complete protective circuit.


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> I would say early next month. The price is not going to be too cheap as the tray will include the complete protective circuit.


Yeah, hopefully it ain’t $700


----------



## zen87192

Whitigir said:


> Yeah, hopefully it ain’t $700


I ain't going to be impressed with Cayin if it costs anywhere near that! I would consider that 'milking' us just because the C9 is popular rather than thinking that the Battery Case is a necessity to its current and future owners.


----------



## Levanter

Anyone using the C9 with Auteur?


----------



## bluestorm1992

Levanter said:


> Anyone using the C9 with Auteur?


I have C9 with ZMF Verite Closed. Very enjoyable experience.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Whitigir said:


> Yeah, hopefully it ain’t $700


If it's $700, some entrepreneur in Hong Kong will make it for $350.


----------



## twister6

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> If it's $700, some entrepreneur in Hong Kong will make it for $350.



Why stop at $700? 

OK, let me do the fuzzy logic math.  C9 is 160mm in length and cost $2k.  The battery tray is 82mm in length, half of it, thus should be priced no less than $1k.  Makes sense? 

When C9 was announced, people were lowballing the price.  With a charging battery tray, I think we are going in the opposite direction


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

twister6 said:


> Why stop at $700?
> 
> OK, let me do the fuzzy logic math.  C9 is 160mm in length and cost $2k.  The battery tray is 82mm in length, half of it, thus should be priced no less than $1k.  Makes sense?
> 
> When C9 was announced, people were lowballing the price.  With a charging battery tray, I think we are going in the opposite direction


Not sure if we are talking about the same thing.  I was commenting on a $700 battery module.   There is no way that a battery module should cost $700 on a $2000 product.  And, battery technology is sufficiently well understood that it can be made such that a nice profit is possible at a $350 price point.    Even a Tesla replacement battery is $3000-7000 and that is on a car that costs in excess of $50000.   You aren't going to be able to charge more than 10-15% of the product cost for a replacement battery.    I would call that business math.


----------



## bigbeans

Crosspost from the Eletech thread, but I thought some of you would like to see my new arrangement. Thanks to the fellow C9 owner who posted the link to the rack.


----------



## Andykong (Mar 25, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> I am waiting for battery module LOL!!





zen87192 said:


> Ready and waiting to 'lock 'n load' batteries. Looking forward to the battery modules as well Whitigir. I just hope they won't cost too much.





Whitigir said:


> Yeah, hopefully it ain’t $700





twister6 said:


> Why stop at $700?
> 
> OK, let me do the fuzzy logic math.  C9 is 160mm in length and cost $2k.  The battery tray is 82mm in length, half of it, thus should be priced no less than $1k.  Makes sense?
> 
> When C9 was announced, people were lowballing the price.  With a charging battery tray, I think we are going in the opposite direction





HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Not sure if we are talking about the same thing.  I was commenting on a $700 battery module.   There is no way that a battery module should cost $700 on a $2000 product.  And, battery technology is sufficiently well understood that it can be made such that a nice profit is possible at a $350 price point.    Even a Tesla replacement battery is $3000-7000 and that is on a car that costs in excess of $50000.   You aren't going to be able to charge more than 10-15% of the product cost for a replacement battery.    I would call that business math.



I am sure Whitigir and Twister6 was trying to make a joke on me only, they enjoy doing that when I can't provide the details. 

Anyway, the battery module will be around $100, I won't call it a low-cost item when compare to other 18650 chargers, but you need to have volume before you can drive the manufacturing cost down, and a custom-make HiFi accessories won't have the kind of volume when compare to standalone 18650 chargers. 

We are building up our C9 battery module inventory and working on the packaging and user manual already, it will be available sometimes in April, hopefully sooner than I expect.


----------



## Andykong

CANiSLAYu said:


> Are the leather cases being shipped out as well?



The C9 leather cases is available, we shipped this to oversee dealers already, but I guess most over dealers will group the C9 leather cases and their next C9 order into one shipment to drive the logistic cost down.


----------



## Andykong

bluestorm1992 said:


> True, and I think these are not even enough for the 300 pre-order/back-ordered units. Cayin needs to make and stock more!!





bluestorm1992 said:


> Just saw this from Cayin: The second batch of C9 will start shipping *tomorrow* to pre-order customers!





zen87192 said:


> Gosh! That's great news! I hope I'm one of the lucky ones on the list! I have everything ready but this.... Fingers crossed!



I would like to clarify our situation.  We didn't ship to pre-order customers directly.  The 300 back order units was orders placed by our dealers, they are not equivalent to 300 pre-order customers either.  To illustrate my point, when dealer A received 6 reservations or pre-orders, he probably will place an order of 10 units with us (or more, depends on his promotion plan, logistic, cash flow and other administrative overhead), and then he starts to promote the unit to sell more before he receive the items.  Besides that 300 back order number has been increased since bluestorm1992 last enquired.  So our back order number is dynamic, and the availability  (excluding pre-orders) of C9 is also a dynamic number that changed everyday.

The good news is, our current production batch will fulfil all dealer back orders (as of today), so if your dealer has placed an order, they'll receive their C9  for sure.



Joseph Lin said:


> In a month. I do not want to pre-order but not being able to receive it while I am away. I won't be back until end of August.



MusicTeck is a reliable dealer, I have know Andrew since I join Cayin and he is trustworthy definitely.  Looks like he'll receive his next batch of C9 before you start your journey.  However if you haven't pre-order with him, then it will depends whether he has extra stock after he fulfilled all his pre-order customers.


----------



## Andykong (Mar 25, 2021)

gonzfi said:


> So can I just check... is there any issue using a c9 and a dx300 with a 4.4mm balanced line out connection?





Whitigir said:


> I use this combo of C9 and dx300 from time to time and I am fine.  There are others as well





twister6 said:


> Not, as long as you don't set dx300 line out to high gain; better keep it on low gain.



An amplifier cannot damage a source equipment unless there is a voltage level feedback loop from the amplifier to the source.  This is a scientific observation that can't be disproved till now.

I can understand the convenient to NOT disabling the digital volume of DAC chipset with Line Out, but I can't understand the reason behind adding "Gain" or whatever amplification to line out.  "Amplified" line out is a new idea to me, and it is dangerous if the "amplified" line output does not have adequate overload protection.


----------



## zen87192 (Mar 25, 2021)

Excellent!! Around $100 for the Battery Module! I was hoping for 'up to' $100 but I'm a bit happier now!


----------



## Andykong (Mar 25, 2021)

gonzfi said:


> When you used the V590 as a pre amp into the C9 did you have to change the gain settings?
> 
> Top review by the way👌





Shawnb said:


> I assume the same would be true of the Max? Keep it low gain just to be safe.





nelava17 said:


> I have used the DX220 Max - 4.4mm Line Out on High Gain (I am assuming the High Gain setting impacts the Line Out and the Phone Out, but not sure on this)...and also had the C9 set to High Gain...with no issues.  I did have the DAC volume on the DX220 Max set to 135 (of 150), so 90% of the DAC volume.





bluestorm1992 said:


> That's what I do. For example, even for DAPs, N6ii with A02 has different line-out gain levels, and changing it will dramatically change how loud the gear sounds. I have always kept it in medium gain instead of high gain when listening with IEMs as it will otherwise get too loud.



Maybe it's easier to communicate when we quote the actual rated output level because the work High gain or High level can means different setting to different brands.

Take Cayin as example, our "High" level is basically the standard line out level while Mid and Low are attenuated output for amplifier with very high gain or speaker/earphone with very high sensitivity.   The following line out specification will explain that in detail.





Therefore if you are using Cayin DAP line out as source, you should start at HIGH level and then work your way down for different presentation or if the loading light of your amplifier is flashing.  

Other vendor might adopt a different approach, such as using Mid as standard and then step up the output voltage to 3V/6V for SE and BAL respectively.  So the best practise is to check out the rated output level instead of comparing  "Low" or "High" in line out across different brands.

For Pre-amp output, the variation is even bigger, so find out the rated output level is even more important.  I have seen Balanced Pre-amp output from 4V max to 20V+ max, so the word "High" can means completely different things in pre-amp., better watch out for that.


----------



## Andykong

zen87192 said:


> What happens when you add an N6ii with an E01 Motherboard with has Class A/AB to a C9 with Class A/AB?
> Does this double up the A/AB sound?
> If we set Class A on the N6ii and Class AB on the C9 what happens? Just asking so I know in advance when my C9 arrives what I could be listening to and why/how.





Whitigir said:


> That can only be used as Pre-amp in.  I don’t see it having line out.
> 
> If so, then yes, class A preamp into Class A power amp is a double class A system.  It is pretty common on large speakers.



Quite true, when you use E01 with C9, you are using the E01 phone out as a Class A preamp, consider the E01 noise level is the lowest among all N6ii Audio Motherboards, this might worth trying, especially if you are using an single-ended IEM or headphone.  Unfortunately I have borrowed my E01 to a friend before I receive my C9, so I haven't try this combination so far.  If someone have this combination, please share your impression with us.


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> Listening to T01 , C9, and telling myself
> 
> How did I became a Cayin believer ? Thank you C9!!!





Whitigir said:


> I am never the same again, for the first time in a long time that I am eagerly awaiting Cayin new products announcements which never happened before.  Also, I don’t care much for newer DAP anymore lol...except Cayin ? Wait....how ?



We are flattered, and we didn't expect C9 becomes so influential.  N8 was a milestone in our portable audio technologies, C9 is the benchmark of our implementation, they are both TOTL products in our line up.  We are glad that C9 has covered the unfinished business of N8 in terms of brand building and expanding our supporter community.


----------



## Andykong

immortalsoul said:


> I am listening to Cayin N6ii with T01 as I am typing and I realize that I enjoy this motherboard more and more. I have yet to try it with an amplifier but it sounds good as it is. I believe the dac in this motherboard is implemented really nice and I enjoy it more than the E01 motherboard that I sold already because it didn't move me like T01. Sometimes a newer dac doesn't necessarily mean better sound



T01 is an underrated Audio Motherboard.  When we introduce T01, we received very mixed response and a lot of users think the T01 offers same output (and therefore assumed same audio performance) with A01 but with inferior digital capability, so not a very good sign as that time.  Maybe we are trying too hard to demonstrate the different between changing DAC while other modular DAPs changes the headphone amp. circuit, so the decision to change DAC circuit but keeping the same final stage headphone amplification circuit as A01 didn't appeal to users at 2019.  Glad the C9 has offered another chance to T01.


----------



## Andykong

bluestorm1992 said:


> I think it is useful to note that the “pause your DAP before plugging/unplugging your interconnect” suggestion is a generally good practice in keeping your DAP in good shape, and is NOT caused by the design flaw of C9. If you use some other external amps, the same procedure should be followed to protect your DAP.



Well, when we change speakers, even with banana plugs that are fairly easy to operate, we'll definitely remember to turn down the volume, or even turn off the amplifier.  We didn't do that with our IEMs or headphones.  

So yes, I strongly suggest we pick up this habit, this is not new suggestion, just a reminder to an forgotten good practise.


----------



## Andykong

lumdicks said:


> Damn! I have suffered from Headphone Fever after getting my C9, and just got a pair of Stellia after the Empyrean......
> 
> I promised it is my last purchase this year........ hopefully as I do not have much motive now to buy or replace any DAP or IEM, as everything of my collection sounds beautifully with C9 already.



You have mixed of open and closed-back, dynamic and planar, so the next step is .... an AMT-based headphone? 

HEDDphone probably is out of reach for C9, but oBravo HAMT-3 should work fine, relatively low cost and sound very good in its price range.


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> So, I have decided to make my 3rd and final end-game Interconnect.  *This is properly shielded*, not only Coaxial, but also taped, and with Litz Copper by Cardas as well
> 
> Connectors are Furutech indisputable Rhodium plated
> 
> ...



Can you tell me the model number of this Cardas cable?  Is it stiff or too heavy if I were to use it as headphone cable or longer (12-24 inches) 4.4mm interconnect?  Can I find this cable on Cardiff website?  I am a fan of Cardiff cable, I would love to include a Cardas alternative on my headphone cable and short interconnect collection.



Whitigir said:


> So @Andykong , today I have let my C9 go without charging or turning on for 24 hours or so.  It just simply won’t turn on, until I connect the usb C charger and the LED is blinking.  Then I can unplug and turn it on ?
> Is this some kind of operation mode that isn’t in the manual ?





Whitigir said:


> I have been modding it all along including, heat sinks, new batteries, new interconnects....  just no invasive processes yet.
> 
> I think this protective mode happens due to the Ground-shield-Ground on this 3rd interconnect Kind.  The so called the right kind of shield by @twister6 .
> 
> ...



So far majority of our protected mode instance report are coming from charging related issues.  I can't think of any reason why a grounded 4.4mm interconnect can trigger protection mode in C9.  I have three sets of 4.4mm short interconnects, two grounded and one ungrounded, and the two grounded cable takes up 80% of my usage (roughly) and I didn't experience non-charging-related protection mode so far.  I am not trying to falsify your experience, I just couldn't figure out an explanation or even hypothesis.  If the protection mode continue to appear in your setup, drop me a PM and I'll forward your case to our engineer for further study.


----------



## lumdicks

Andykong said:


> You have mixed of open and closed-back, dynamic and planar, so the next step is .... an AMT-based headphone?
> 
> HEDDphone probably is out of reach for C9, but oBravo HAMT-3 should work fine, relatively low cost and sound very good in its price range.


What a good idea Andy.


----------



## bluestorm1992

lumdicks said:


> What a good idea Andy.


I remember someone saying that focal (or the topping) would be his last purchase of the year.


----------



## zen87192 (Mar 25, 2021)

Here's the first C9 official leather case I've found for sale if anyone would like one quickly.

https://www.dma-audio.com/products/cayin-c9-leather-case

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002282912543.html

HKD$699.00 / USD$90.00 / GBP£65.00


----------



## decur

my c9 gets boiling hot in tube mode
i would not dare to strap a case on it,holding the heat in


----------



## jmills8

decur said:


> my c9 gets boiling hot in tube mode
> i would not dare to strap a case on it,holding the heat in


Can you cook an egg on it ?


----------



## CANiSLAYu

Question for HiBy R8 users: when you're using the 4.4 LO to C9, what settings do you have on both the R8 (gain, volume level, turbo on or off) and the C9 (direct or pre)?  New R8 user and I don't have anything to test the LO out on yet and preparing for my C9 to get here at some point soon   Thanks in advance!


----------



## zen87192

decur said:


> my c9 gets boiling hot in tube mode
> i would not dare to strap a case on it,holding the heat in


Only really recommended for travel protection whilst powered off and/or very short term listening whilst 'on the go. Otherwise use your C9 'Bere' for full ventilation.


----------



## bigbeans (Mar 25, 2021)

CANiSLAYu said:


> Question for HiBy R8 users: when you're using the 4.4 LO to C9, what settings do you have on both the R8 (gain, volume level, turbo on or off) and the C9 (direct or pre)?  New R8 user and I don't have anything to test the LO out on yet and preparing for my C9 to get here at some point soon   Thanks in advance!


Hi fellow R8 owner! I have been in an email exchange with Andrew from Musicteck regarding this.

Essentially, Hiby R8 has a fixed line out. The turbo only engages in conjunction with headphone amplifier (phone out jacks).

Therefore, it shouldn’t make any difference whether you pick Low/Middle/High Gain when you use either Line Out jack on R8. Turbo can’t be engaged when using Line Out mode.

You should only use (imho) the 4.4mm Line Out as this achieves 4.1 Vrms which is close to N6ii 4.2 Vrms. Note, volume should be between 90-100. My settings are R8 (low gain, volume 100) via 4.4mm BAL LO to Cayin C9 (line out mode, Low gain).


----------



## twister6

bigbeans said:


> Hi fellow R8 owner! I have been in an email exchange with Andrew from Musicteck regarding this.
> 
> Essentially, Hiby R8 has a fixed line out. The turbo only engages in conjunction with headphone amplifier (phone out jacks).
> 
> ...



You have both R8 and C9, right?  That is also a great combo.  You can try switching gain and will see that it doesn't change the output of LO, only affects PO.  But volume wheel will change LO output, assuming max will set it to 4.1 Vrms.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Mar 25, 2021)

Trying the new MEST MKii with C9 tonight, and I am (once again) shocked by the improvement C9 can bing to this already wonderful IEM. Two biggest improvements I have noticed are (1) the soundstage becomes much more 3D; (2) the vocals becomes much more natural; feels like having a front-row seat and listening to the singer in the recording room.

Still don’t understand how Cayin is able to do this with its C9 magic, and I continue to be amazed by the performance of every single IEM I pair with it.

PS: I am sorry to say this, but my SP2000 alone is not even close to the C9 stack.


----------



## bigbeans

twister6 said:


> You have both R8 and C9, right?  That is also a great combo.  You can try switching gain and will see that it doesn't change the output of LO, only affects PO.  But volume wheel will change LO output, assuming max will set it to 4.1 Vrms.


I did try different gains, didn’t reveal an audible difference. My Mac Mini is back from repair! New setup!


----------



## bluestorm1992

bigbeans said:


> I did try different gains, didn’t reveal an audible difference. My Mac Mini is back from repair! New setup!


You can finally try the complete C9 “portable” stack! Is it good? I almost got a R8 instead of N6ii as the streaming DAP. I know many Chinese C9 users use R8 as the source too.


----------



## bigbeans

bluestorm1992 said:


> You can finally try the complete C9 “portable” stack! Is it good? I almost got a R8 instead of N6ii as the streaming DAP. I know many Chinese C9 users use R8 as the source too.


This stack is simply incredible, I can't fault the sound at all. Classical music is especially satisfying. I was listening to one of my favorites, _Murray Perahia plays Mozart - The Piano Concertos. _The detail and spaciousness pushed the technical abilities of the R8 to a level I didn't know it could do. Hiby did a very good job on the amp section, but it seems weak compared to C9. And this is the Hiby R8 we're talking about, it's imho the best DAP I've used. I never realized how good the DAC on the R8 is until now. This transforms any flagship DAP into DMP territory. Yes, I say that as a DMP owner.

Will I keep DMP? Absolutely, the sound is so unique and imho is the best I've heard ever. It's the ultimate version of Sony sound, I can't give that up for a second.

 But in the same situation, with 8.5k to burn on C9+DAP (and bonus money left) or DMP, I'd choose the former. And be happy.


----------



## blackgreen15

Hi, can anyone help me with questions about batteries... Is the LG HG2 pretty much the battery of choice?  Is anything else comparable? Is there a recommended source for these?


----------



## bigbeans (Mar 26, 2021)

blackgreen15 said:


> Hi, can anyone help me with questions about batteries... Is the LG HG2 pretty much the battery of choice?  Is anything else comparable? Is there a recommended source for these?



I would advise to focus on your cables and interconnects than be concerned with battery rolling. The provided Sony batteries that the unit ships are excellent. Upgrading your cables, optimizing your DAP will realize far greater changes than rolling batteries.

Assuming you have already done this, I think @Whitigir has had good luck with Orbtronic batteries. He wrote a brief writeup on it in the thread, just search for it (Post 1164).


----------



## blackgreen15

bigbeans said:


> I would advise to focus on your cables and interconnects than be concerned with battery rolling. The provided Sony batteries that the unit ships are excellent. Upgrading your cables, optimizing your DAP will realize far greater changes than rolling batteries.
> 
> Assuming you have already done this, I think @Whitigir has had good luck with Orbtronic batteries. He wrote a brief writeup on it in the thread, just search for it.


I guess I was not really so much trying to upgrade with the batteries, as trying to identify what would be good to buy as a spare set.  If I'm going to buy another set, it makes sense to me to buy the best


----------



## lumdicks

Andykong said:


> You have mixed of open and closed-back, dynamic and planar, so the next step is .... an AMT-based headphone?
> 
> HEDDphone probably is out of reach for C9, but oBravo HAMT-3 should work fine, relatively low cost and sound very good in its price range.







Thanks for your kind suggestion and I have just got the Obravo HAMT-3 MKII. It had a very unique tonality of high and low with its hybrid AMT and dynamic.

2 open and 2 closed, planar, AMT and dynamic, made in US, Europe and Asia. It completed my collection well.


----------



## bluestorm1992

lumdicks said:


> Thanks for your kind suggestion and I have just got the Obravo HAMT-3 MKII. It had a very unique tonality of high and low with its hybrid AMT and dynamic.
> 
> 2 open and 2 closed, planar, AMT and dynamic, made in US, Europe and Asia. It completed my collection well.


And C9 +Topping is the powerhouse to these all.   

Your collection is absolutely amazing!


----------



## lumdicks

bluestorm1992 said:


> And C9 +Topping is the powerhouse to these all.
> 
> Your collection is absolutely amazing!


Thanks pal, you are one of those pushing me down the Rabbit Hole............


----------



## bluestorm1992

lumdicks said:


> Thanks pal, you are one of those pushing me down the Rabbit Hole............


And I will gladly take the blame.


----------



## bigbeans

lumdicks said:


> Thanks for your kind suggestion and I have just got the Obravo HAMT-3 MKII. It had a very unique tonality of high and low with its hybrid AMT and dynamic.
> 
> 2 open and 2 closed, planar, AMT and dynamic, made in US, Europe and Asia. It completed my collection well.



Do you use the Topping (as a DAC) with the C9? Or is that separate?


----------



## lumdicks

bigbeans said:


> Do you use the Topping (as a DAC) with the C9? Or is that separate?


I switched between Topping and C9 for testing. The HAMT-3 has very special and well extended high and it paired very well with C9 on Tube mode.
Shall get a XLR to 4.4 cable for pairing of the Topping and C9.


----------



## xand

lumdicks said:


> It completed my collection well.


Now all you need are some desktop amps... 😬


----------



## bluestorm1992

xand said:


> Now all you need are some desktop amps... 😬


Followed by a TOTL R2R DAC. I have some pretty juicy options I can recommend.


----------



## lumdicks

bluestorm1992 said:


> Followed by a TOTL R2R DAC. I have some pretty juicy options I can recommend.


How about this?


----------



## VancityDreaming

Does the WM1A pair well with this amp? Thanks


----------



## bluestorm1992

VancityDreaming said:


> Does the WM1A pair well with this amp? Thanks


I believe @lumdicks is using this pairing.


----------



## bigbeans

bluestorm1992 said:


> I believe @lumdicks is using this pairing.



I thought he was using LP P6 Pro and Lotoo Titanium?


----------



## bluestorm1992

bigbeans said:


> I thought he was using LP P6 Pro and Lotoo Titanium?


I thought he used the 1A at a point with C9.


----------



## bigbeans

bluestorm1992 said:


> I thought he used the 1A at a point with C9.


It seems @lumdicks has all the DAPs these days


----------



## bluestorm1992

bigbeans said:


> It seems @lumdicks has all the DAPs these days


He is missing a N6ii + A02 though!


----------



## blackgreen15

How does R8 compare to N6ii A02 with C9 just on sound quality alone?


----------



## lumdicks

VancityDreaming said:


> Does the WM1A pair well with this amp? Thanks


It works well by line in mode. As 1A does not have line out, you need to set a the volume at maximum and it is a good way to drive demanding IEMs or CAN while preserving the house Walkman sound. In my experience, it does not work at pre-out in with significant hiss and interference but not sure whether it is a specific issue as my 1A is extensively hardware modded.


----------



## lumdicks

bluestorm1992 said:


> He is missing a N6ii + A02 though!


Yes. I owned N6ii once with A01, T01 and E02 boards but sold all out. Otherwise it may be a perfect pairing with the A02 board. 😁


----------



## DaYooper

It is near perfect and this will do until C9 arrives.


----------



## lumdicks

DaYooper said:


> It is near perfect and this will do until C9 arrives.


Lovely! How is the HA-6A?


----------



## lumdicks

bigbeans said:


> It seems @lumdicks has all the DAPs these days


Damn it makes me a bit guilty.................


----------



## bluestorm1992

lumdicks said:


> Damn it makes me a bit guilty.................


You haven’t had the Traillii! Let us push you further down the rabbit hole.


----------



## xand

@twister6 how does the C9 go with Odin? Additional bonus points if this is with the dx300!

Oh and FYI for everyone:
https://empireears.com/collections/custom/products/odin-custom


----------



## fiascogarcia

xand said:


> @twister6 how does the C9 go with Odin? Additional bonus points if this is with the dx300!
> 
> Oh and FYI for everyone:
> https://empireears.com/collections/custom/products/odin-custom


He covers the Odin on his C9 review, which you can access from the home page.  Doesn't seem like the best pairing, as apparently there is some hissing.


----------



## bluestorm1992

I think Alex also mentioned that ifi’s new IEM Match is a potential solution to this.


----------



## bigbeans

fiascogarcia said:


> He covers the Odin on his C9 review, which you can access from the home page.  Doesn't seem like the best pairing, as apparently there is some hissing.


He did note IEMatch address all issues regarding hissing.

Edit: I use DUNU Luna (which hisses on C9) with a IEMatch, and zero issues whatsoever.


----------



## aaf evo

Got my C9 pre order in! Hopefully I’ll have it this week if musicteck gets their stock soon.


----------



## DaYooper

aaf evo said:


> Got my C9 pre order in! Hopefully I’ll have it this week if musicteck gets their stock soon.


I would like to see that too.


----------



## bluestorm1992

aaf evo said:


> Got my C9 pre order in! Hopefully I’ll have it this week if musicteck gets their stock soon.


Welcome to the club! Hope you will get it soon and enjoy it. Have you decided which DAP to use to pair with it?


----------



## aaf evo

bluestorm1992 said:


> Welcome to the club! Hope you will get it soon and enjoy it. Have you decided which DAP to use to pair with it?



For now just DX300, I know it doesn’t have the best LO so I’ll be exploring other options too depending on my initial thoughts with the C9. 

Looking into the HiBy R8 again though.


----------



## bluestorm1992

aaf evo said:


> For now just DX300, I know it doesn’t have the best LO so I’ll be exploring other options too depending on my initial thoughts with the C9.
> 
> Looking into the HiBy R8 again though.


Just found out from your signature that the SP2000 is once again (and again) gone.


----------



## aaf evo

bluestorm1992 said:


> Just found out from your signature that the SP2000 is once again (and again) gone.



Went to its new owner this morning 😂


----------



## Nostoi

Got heads-up that UK stockists should be getting their C9 loads by the end of this week; meaning us pre-order customers should have it next week.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Nostoi said:


> Got heads-up that UK stockists should be getting their C9 loads by the end of this week; meaning us pre-order customers should have it next week.


Congrats! I think the wait is worth it. Make sure to try it with both your headphones and IEMs!


----------



## Nostoi

bluestorm1992 said:


> Congrats! I think the wait is worth it. Make sure to try it with both your headphones and IEMs!


I think I ordered early Feb, so definitely a bit of wait. Anticipation is high.... I've bought a few new headphones since then, including a pair of Fostex TH900, which I'm especially keen to hear with the C9.


----------



## lucasratmundo

Nostoi said:


> Got heads-up that UK stockists should be getting their C9 loads by the end of this week; meaning us pre-order customers should have it next week.


I pre-ordered from Audio Concierge a few days ago. They told me the C9s are flying in from Cayin and should be available in a few days. Can’t wait!


----------



## bluestorm1992

lucasratmundo said:


> I pre-ordered from Audio Concierge a few days ago. They told me the C9s are flying in from Cayin and should be available in a few days. Can’t wait!


Congrats and welcome to the club! Hope you will receive it soon.


----------



## zen87192

Yes!!!!! Just been advised that my C9 has been picked and is being packaged now for despatch. The C9's look to have landed in the UK now so all UK customers on the first pre-order list 'should' see theirs delivered this week. I think US customers will see theirs delivered early next week. A big Hooray for everyone who is on board from this new delivery. I look forward to hearing all of your thoughts. 🎧


----------



## Nostoi

zen87192 said:


> Yes!!!!! Just been advised that my C9 has been picked and is being packaged now for despatch. The C9's look to have landed in the UK now so all UK customers on the first pre-order list 'should' see theirs delivered this week. I think US customers will see theirs delivered early next week. A big Hooray for everyone who is on board from this new delivery. I look forward to hearing all of your thoughts. 🎧


Just got the same notification myself.


----------



## lumdicks (Apr 8, 2021)

Pairing my new Chord Hugo 2 as designated source of C9, with an aim to create a semi desktop system with portability, streamed from my music server by iMac via Roon.

Thanks @bluestorm1992 for the advice and sharing. The combo works extremely well with Chord signature of airy and musical presentation and Cayin signature of excellent control, dark background and my favorite tube A mode.


----------



## lucasratmundo

zen87192 said:


> Yes!!!!! Just been advised that my C9 has been picked and is being packaged now for despatch. The C9's look to have landed in the UK now so all UK customers on the first pre-order list 'should' see theirs delivered this week. I think US customers will see theirs delivered early next week. A big Hooray for everyone who is on board from this new delivery. I look forward to hearing all of your thoughts. 🎧



Mine is being sent tomorrow. Yay!


----------



## Joseph Lin

Is MusicTeck shipping C9 this week?


----------



## bluestorm1992

Joseph Lin said:


> Is MusicTeck shipping C9 this week?


Next week I believe.


----------



## DaYooper

bluestorm1992 said:


> Next week I believe.


That's what I heard as well.


----------



## fiascogarcia

bluestorm1992 said:


> Next week I believe.


Can't come soon enough!  I've been waiting for an amp that could best utilize the sq of my WM1Z firmware (which doesn't have a dedicated LO), and it sounds like the pre amp mode on the C9 is just the ticket.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

lumdicks said:


> Pairing my new Chord Hugo 2 as designated source of C9, with an aim to create a semi desktop system with portability, streamed from my music server by iMac via Roon.
> 
> Thanks @bluestorm1992 for the advice and sharing. The combo works extremely well with Chord signature of airy and musical presentation and Cayin signature of excellent control, dark background and my favorite tube A mode.


How does it sound?    Basically using the Hugo 2 DAC and the C9 amp.    Inquiring minds want to know.


----------



## lumdicks

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> How does it sound?    Basically using the Hugo 2 DAC and the C9 amp.    Inquiring minds want to know.


Hugo 2 is able to drive all of my IEMs and headphones (please see my signature) but I observe 2 issues. The first is the relative high noise floor that I hear small hiss with more sensitive IEMs such as FiR M5. Besides, while it is loud enough, I find that it lacks a bit control and authority in driving my CANs.

So I use the RCA to 3.5mm cable to connect my H2 to C9 via Preamp In and wow! The whole imaging, resolution, dynamics and micro details reach the next level. The background is completely black without any hiss and noise. H2 is among the best DACs in portable or even desktop world, so pairing with C9 gives me the best of both worlds.

Strangely that H2 does not pair well with C9 via line in. Not sure whether because of the relative high 3v RMS line level of H2 that I used but it sounds a bit muddy and congested. With preamp in the sound is much more transparent, musical and engaging.


----------



## bluestorm1992

lumdicks said:


> Hugo 2 is able to drive all of my IEMs and headphones (please see my signature) but I observe 2 issues. The first is the relative high noise floor that I hear small hiss with more sensitive IEMs such as FiR M5. Besides, while it is loud enough, I find that it lacks a bit control and authority in driving my CANs.
> 
> So I use the RCA to 3.5mm cable to connect my H2 to C9 via Preamp In and wow! The whole imaging, resolution, dynamics and micro details reach the next level. The background is completely black without any hiss and noise. H2 is among the best DACs in portable or even desktop world, so pairing with C9 gives me the best of both worlds.
> 
> Strangely that H2 does not pair well with C9 via line in. Not sure whether because of the relative high 3v RMS line level of H2 that I used but it sounds a bit muddy and congested. With preamp in the sound is much more transparent, musical and engaging.


Thanks for sharing! I have the same experience in pairing H2 with C9. The line-in mode is not so appealing, potentially due to the double amp issue (H2 does not have a true line out, only a line level). The pre-mode of C9 pairs with it perfectly.

For my Diana V2, H2 can drive it but it was not so satisfactory especially at high volume. I usually listen quite loud, and at that volume H2's control is a bit off and I occasionally hear some distortions/noise. With the pre-mode of C9, I can keep H2 at a relatively low and comfortable volume.


----------



## 111MilesToGo (Mar 31, 2021)

lumdicks said:


> Hugo 2 is able to drive all of my IEMs and headphones (please see my signature) but I observe 2 issues. The first is the relative high noise floor that I hear small hiss with more sensitive IEMs such as FiR M5. Besides, while it is loud enough, I find that it lacks a bit control and authority in driving my CANs.
> 
> So I use the RCA to 3.5mm cable to connect my H2 to C9 via Preamp In and wow! The whole imaging, resolution, dynamics and micro details reach the next level. The background is completely black without any hiss and noise. H2 is among the best DACs in portable or even desktop world, so pairing with C9 gives me the best of both worlds.
> 
> Strangely that H2 does not pair well with C9 via line in. Not sure whether because of the relative high 3v RMS line level of H2 that I used but it sounds a bit muddy and congested. With preamp in the sound is much more transparent, musical and engaging.





bluestorm1992 said:


> Thanks for sharing! I have the same experience in pairing H2 with C9. The line-in mode is not so appealing, potentially due to the double amp issue (H2 does not have a true line out, only a line level). The pre-mode of C9 pairs with it perfectly.
> 
> For my Diana V2, H2 can drive it but it was not so satisfactory especially at high volume. I usually listen quite loud, and at that volume H2's control is a bit off and I occasionally hear some distortions/noise. With the pre-mode of C9, I can keep H2 at a relatively low and comfortable volume.


Please, how are you running your Hugo 2 / C9 combo, precisely? H2 should not be run in fixed-volume RCA Output mode (purple volume indicator, i.e. 3 V RMS) - that’s what you say. Rather it should be run on the H2 volume control (to what color approx.)? C9 in Pre-Amp mode, i.e. bypassing the C9 volume control. Did I understand you correctly? Thanks in advance.

Now, how about running the H2 at lower than purple volume and using the C9 in Line-Input mode, i.e. doing the volume control on the C9? @lumdicks, you said the pairing is bad in this setting with H2 at purple volume. Does it get better with the H2 turned down?

Side remark: For my full-size cans (HD 800S, T1.2) I do find the same as you. Things get to open up to full potential and gain musical authority when using the H2 with an external headphone amp, like Violectric V281. The wins then are much bigger than the losses. With V281, the H2 is in fixed-volume mode (purple), and I use the input attenuation of the V281. Volume controlled by V281 pot.


----------



## lumdicks

111MilesToGo said:


> Please, how are you running your Hugo 2 / C9 combo, precisely? H2 should not be run in fixed-volume RCA Output mode (purple volume indicator, i.e. 3 V RMS) - that’s what you say. Rather it should be run on the H2 volume control (to what color approx.)? C9 in Pre-Amp mode, i.e. bypassing the C9 volume control. Did I understand you correctly? Thanks in advance.
> 
> Now, how about running the H2 at lower than purple volume and using the C9 in Line-Input mode, i.e. doing the volume control on the C9? @lumdicks, you said the pairing is bad in this setting with H2 at purple volume. Does it get better with the H2 turned down?



Depends on different headphone. On Obravo HAMT3 MKII I run H2 at green colour volume, pre in to C9 at high gain. For Empyrean, Ether Flow Open and Stellia, the volume at H2 is lower in between yellow and green.

For line in, sound quality does improve if I dial down the volume of H2, but overall speaking it works better at pre in.


----------



## syke (Mar 31, 2021)

I've managed to listen to the C9 paired with the WM1Z and Z1R today. I am pleased with the increased dynamics, depth and improved sound signature especially on vocals with line in, tube and class A activated. With pre in, I was hearing more or less the same straight out of the WM1Z, Unfortunately, the listening environment was a little noisy, so I might have missed the subtle nuances that might further highlight the differences.

It is nice to have in one device so many tones and modes to choose from. However, with the setup that I have, I reckon the choices would be somewhat narrowed down.

Portability wise, the footprint of this amp isn't small. A stack like this would not be something I would consider taking out of the house. But as a device moving from one room to another, I think it will be great. Then begs the question, wouldn't a desktop amp or maybe a DMP-Z1 be better? Possibly...

If I deem the sound of the C9 with the above setup as refined, the ifi Diablo must be more along the lines of brutish.

我喜欢光溜溜的白虎


----------



## xand

syke said:


> 我喜欢光溜溜的白虎


?!?!


----------



## syke

xand said:


> ?!?!


I am sure you like it too. 😉


----------



## zen87192

Good Day to everyone, a joyous day today! My C9 has just been delivered!
Time for some fun and great listening!
🎶🎧🎶


----------



## Kiats

I hear that the SG stores should be receiving the pre-ordered stock tomorrow from the distributor. This will be good.


----------



## Whitigir

zen87192 said:


> Good Day to everyone, a joyous day today! My C9 has just been delivered!
> Time for some fun and great listening!
> 🎶🎧🎶


Congratulations!! Welcome to the club


----------



## xand (Mar 31, 2021)

Kiats said:


> I hear that the SG stores should be receiving the pre-ordered stock tomorrow from the distributor. This will be good.



Already here.. 👍

(Friend who ordered picked up today.)


----------



## lumdicks

Lights of path to heaven at night.


----------



## zen87192

A very short two hours of listening to the C9 connected to an N6ii with E02 Board and LO. Only stayed on LO, High Gain, Timbre off and Class AB on the C9 for now. Wow! That's really nice playing though my Sundara's. Then, after one hour, swapped over to the A02 Board.... OMG! That's totally different! Bliss! So clear, pure and powerfull, and I've only just started! Later tonight I'll swap over to IEM's. How exciting!


----------



## lumdicks

zen87192 said:


> A very short two hours of listening to the C9 connected to an N6ii with E02 Board and LO. Only stayed on LO, High Gain, Timbre off and Class AB on the C9 for now. Wow! That's really nice playing though my Sundara's. Then, after one hour, swapped over to the A02 Board.... OMG! That's totally different! Bliss! So clear, pure and powerfull, and I've only just started! Later tonight I'll swap over to IEM's. How exciting!


Welcome to the Club and I am sure that you are having many sleepless nights ahead.


----------



## bluestorm1992

zen87192 said:


> A very short two hours of listening to the C9 connected to an N6ii with E02 Board and LO. Only stayed on LO, High Gain, Timbre off and Class AB on the C9 for now. Wow! That's really nice playing though my Sundara's. Then, after one hour, swapped over to the A02 Board.... OMG! That's totally different! Bliss! So clear, pure and powerfull, and I've only just started! Later tonight I'll swap over to IEM's. How exciting!


Enjoy! They may surprise you even more with IEMs.


----------



## Whitigir

zen87192 said:


> A very short two hours of listening to the C9 connected to an N6ii with E02 Board and LO. Only stayed on LO, High Gain, Timbre off and Class AB on the C9 for now. Wow! That's really nice playing though my Sundara's. Then, after one hour, swapped over to the A02 Board.... OMG! That's totally different! Bliss! So clear, pure and powerfull, and I've only just started! Later tonight I'll swap over to IEM's. How exciting!


Yepe!!! The A02 is the best of the bliss from Cayin .  Good buy for sure.  However, if you like to collect Motherboard, there is nothing like N6ii


----------



## Kiats

xand said:


> Already here.. 👍
> 
> (Friend who ordered picked up today.)


Haha! That’s good. No issues. Will likely get mine tomorrow. And the C9 cover I ordered from TaoBao on Sunday has arrived today and is at the distribution centre. Perhaps delivery tomorrow as well.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

zen87192 said:


> A very short two hours of listening to the C9 connected to an N6ii with E02 Board and LO. Only stayed on LO, High Gain, Timbre off and Class AB on the C9 for now. Wow! That's really nice playing though my Sundara's. Then, after one hour, swapped over to the A02 Board.... OMG! That's totally different! Bliss! So clear, pure and powerfull, and I've only just started! Later tonight I'll swap over to IEM's. How exciting!


You have some fantastic amps.    I auditioned that Primaluna EVO 400 this week with my ZMF Verite Closed headphones and it was the best full sized headphone experience I've ever had.


----------



## zen87192

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> You have some fantastic amps.    I auditioned that Primaluna EVO 400 this week with my ZMF Verite Closed headphones and it was the best full sized headphone experience I've ever had.


Thanks very much! The EVO has a bonus really as its got a fantastic headphone amp driven directly by the Tubes but also drives and sound matches my Forte III speakers extremely well.


----------



## DaYooper

zen87192 said:


> Forte III speakers


I've been eyeing these for the new two channel room when the addition is finished.


----------



## zen87192

DaYooper said:


> I've been eyeing these for the new two channel room when the addition is finished.


Yes. They really are stupendous. Bere in mind also that the new Forte IV has just been released but is currently somewhat 'expensive'... but apparently sound even better due to a new midrange arrangement. 
Apologies in advance to all for going slightly off thread with this one.


----------



## zen87192

So... four hours passes this evening in a flash with my new C9 set up... I changed over from the Sundara's to my Penon Orb IEM with Leo Plus cable with the C9 on a different setting of High Gain, Tubes and Class A.
Crikey! That was a revelation! Absolutely crystal clear and tight bass with everything in the background much more vivid and evident. Very holographic with voices floating in front of me and instruments sounding all around me. All this from the (mid range?) Orb's which shows that the C9 is exemplary in what it can do. Dread to think what Odin's or Mest MK2 would sound like! Awesome most probably! Listened to loads of music, Royal Blood, Foo Fighters, Depeche Mode, Zara Larsson, Ibiza Rave, Eric Clapton, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra to test all genre's.... All absolutely fantastic! Got to go to bed now though! 😪


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Mar 31, 2021)

zen87192 said:


> So... four hours passes this evening in a flash with my new C9 set up... I changed over from the Sundara's to my Penon Orb IEM with Leo Plus cable with the C9 on a different setting of High Gain, Tubes and Class A.
> Crikey! That was a revelation! Absolutely crystal clear and tight bass with everything in the background much more vivid and evident. Very holographic with voices floating in front of me and instruments sounding all around me. All this from the (mid range?) Orb's which shows that the C9 is exemplary in what it can do. Dread to think what Odin's or Mest MK2 would sound like! Awesome most probably! Listened to loads of music, Royal Blood, Foo Fighters, Depeche Mode, Zara Larsson, Ibiza Rave, Eric Clapton, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra to test all genre's.... All absolutely fantastic! Got to go to bed now though! 😪


I was wondering about: (1) why you have been silent the whole night; (2) when will you be able to go to bed.   

Edit: I am thinking MEST MKii is generally a safer bet if you do not have a super strong preference for a very specific kind of music, and it has a really good synergy with C9. In fact, Cayin and UM are from the same city and their employees have a very good relationship. I wouldn’t be surprised if the tuning of MEST is done with Cayin’s products. (Attached pic is from UM’s official Weibo).


----------



## Kiats

The C9 case has arrived from TaoBao. Delivery is so quick that it has overtaken delivery of the C9 for me.


----------



## jonstatt

Aesthetic bliss


----------



## Kiats

Here we are...


----------



## Kiats

I was really enjoying the C9 and it's driving power until I switched to tube... as you can see the tube on one side doesn't come on thereby only there's music only on one channel. Sigh... 

@Andykong pretty disappointing to wait a couple of months on pre-order and then it fails... Now I have to wait yet again...


----------



## zen87192 (Apr 2, 2021)

A simple little fix for me to do today. Noticed after a few hours of use the C9 and N6ii became warm.
So I affixed four small self adhesive clear rubber pads on each unit to lift the N6ii up and to the bottom of the C9. This allows air movement to the two units and also protects the units from scratching each other.
In addition, this prevents small movements when stacked causing the units to slip off. It's ideal and now I can listen without worrying about the slightest of movements bringing the units crashing down.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Kiats said:


> I was really enjoying the C9 and it's driving power until I switched to tube... as you can see the tube on one side doesn't come on thereby only there's music only on one channel. Sigh...
> 
> @Andykong pretty disappointing to wait a couple of months on pre-order and then it fails... Now I have to wait yet again...


Ah that’s sad. Can you try switching modes or to charge it and see if the tube comes back?


----------



## Kiats (Apr 1, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> Ah that’s sad. Can you try switching modes or to charge it and see if the tube comes back?


I did. Switched modes and back again. It never came on. I was listening on solid state. Decided to try tube. And one channel was completely dead.

Singapore stores are out of stock again. Who knows when new stock will arrive... But bitterly disappointing experience... Obviously, I shouldn't assume all have been properly QCed all because my Cayin N8 has served me well .


----------



## RTodd

Kiats said:


> I did. Switched modes and back again. It never came on. I was listening on solid state. Decided to try tube. And one channel was completely dead.
> 
> Singapore stores are out of stock again. Who knows when new stock will arrive... But bitterly disappointing experience... Obviously, I shouldn't assume all have been properly QCed all because my Cayin N8 has served me well .


Something must have come lose in transit.
Surely Cayin is doing QC testing before packing. Wonder if it could just be pushed back in?


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 1, 2021)

So, the protection and charging circuits are all within the battery tray.  It uses TI chips at minimal required implementations specifically to balances and regulate output of 8.2 or 8.4V rails

Following is the data sheets for this Chip
https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/bq77915.pdf?ts=1616026050607&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ti.com%2Fstore%2Fti%2Fen%2Fp%2Fproduct%2F%3Fp%3DBQ7791501PWR

The current discharge for the tray seems to be 6A and anything drawn over 8A will shut it down.  Given that the C9 never been shut down, it simply means that the current being used and drawn by the C9 is always less than 6A

The back of the C9 also indicates that 9V/5A is the max requirements

For all of this mentioned, I doubt that building any LPSU will be beneficials as the 18650 packs can have burst power so fast without noises.

So, based on this finding, people who seeks for batteries performances *should consider a few facts*

1/ brands (chemicals will have specific influences on the discharge) and that will influence the sounds.  *By far Panasonic and Sony are great*, no Samsung or Sanyo.  Hi-IMR

2/ mAh, the higher is the longer that it last

3/ CDR rate can be anything higher than 7A (now this will open up a lot more possibilities) rather than going for the highest CDR (high drain) situations

4/ The lower Internal resistances is the better

These are just based on the finding of the chip, the implementations and the data sheets


----------



## Whitigir

Also found that this Chip has reverse voltage protections, over current/voltage in charge and discharge, load detections and so on 

So basically if the Tray does not see the load from the amp, then it will not discharge and the amp will not turn on.  This throw and assumption that using an external LPSU can be tapped directly into the correct supplied terminals and have the amp turn on ?

Keep in mind that both of these posts are from visual inspections and nothing from an engineered databases or schematics


----------



## bluestorm1992

Kiats said:


> I did. Switched modes and back again. It never came on. I was listening on solid state. Decided to try tube. And one channel was completely dead.
> 
> Singapore stores are out of stock again. Who knows when new stock will arrive... But bitterly disappointing experience... Obviously, I shouldn't assume all have been properly QCed all because my Cayin N8 has served me well .


I think it shouldn’t take that long this time. The delay last time was due to both CNY and an unexpectedly high demand for the first batch. Now that Cayin has all the parts they need, this shouldn’t take that long.


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> I think it shouldn’t take that long this time. The delay last time was due to both CNY and an unexpectedly high demand for the first batch. Now that Cayin has all the parts they need, this shouldn’t take that long.


There are still chips shortage problems global wise


----------



## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> There are still chips shortage problems global wise


Yeah, but my understanding is that Cayin has ordered enough parts not just enough to full fill the backorders but more. Will need @Andykong to provide more info and/or to help that user out.


----------



## Jeffyue

Time for new toy....
Think it helps me to bring out SP1K & DPX1 from the drawer....


Touchwood so far so good, but wanna check on one thing.

I played with the tray and battery before I started, and found that after plugging the tray back to the unit I needed to plug in the USBC charging cable before I could start the unit.
Is it the way the protective circuit of the tray to work please?


----------



## bluestorm1992

Jeffyue said:


> Time for new toy....
> Think it helps me to bring out SP1K & DPX1 from the drawer....
> 
> 
> ...


Congrats! And yes I believe that’s the way the tray is supposed to work, but others  please provide more info on this.


----------



## Andykong

Kiats said:


> I was really enjoying the C9 and it's driving power until I switched to tube... as you can see the tube on one side doesn't come on thereby only there's music only on one channel. Sigh...
> 
> @Andykong pretty disappointing to wait a couple of months on pre-order and then it fails... Now I have to wait yet again...


Sorry to know that your C9 is not working properly, please contact your dealer and have this exchange.  Zepp is a very helpful dealer, I am sure he'll take care of you and we'll expedite the process to shorten your wait.   



bluestorm1992 said:


> Yeah, but my understanding is that Cayin has ordered enough parts not just enough to full fill the backorders but more. Will need @Andykong to provide more info and/or to help that user out.


Don't worry, we have stock in our inventory.


----------



## Andykong

Jeffyue said:


> Time for new toy....
> Think it helps me to bring out SP1K & DPX1 from the drawer....
> 
> 
> ...



Looks like your battery module have entered protective mode, it should be revoke to normal operation by connecting the unit to a USB charger for 10 seconds.   In most of the case I encountered, protective mode only kicks in on charging related situation, so hopefully this won't happen again in your regular usage.


----------



## Kiats (Apr 2, 2021)

Andykong said:


> Sorry to know that your C9 is not working properly, please contact your dealer and have this exchange.  Zepp is a very helpful dealer, I am sure he'll take care of you and we'll expedite the process to shorten your wait.
> 
> 
> Don't worry, we have stock in our inventory.


@Andykong Yes, please do expedite. It has already been a long wait for this. You can imagine my utter disappointment. The faulty C9 is, as we speak, on its way over to Zepp. I hope Cayin is NOT going to delay sending out the replacement unit until you receive the faulty item from Zepp. That would only cause undue delay and further deterioration in my customer experience. I had visions of enjoying the C9 with my DAP collection this long Easter weekend. Alas! That is no longer possible.


----------



## Jeffyue

Andykong said:


> Looks like your battery module have entered protective mode, it should be revoke to normal operation by connecting the unit to a USB charger for 10 seconds.   In most of the case I encountered, protective mode only kicks in on charging related situation, so hopefully this won't happen again in your regular usage.


Thanks Andy for your info.

Also find it is covered by the user manual.  Just for all the new user who enjoy playing with your new toy without time to read the manual...


----------



## Andykong

lumdicks said:


> Thanks for your kind suggestion and I have just got the Obravo HAMT-3 MKII. It had a very unique tonality of high and low with its hybrid AMT and dynamic.
> 
> 2 open and 2 closed, planar, AMT and dynamic, made in US, Europe and Asia. It completed my collection well.



Glad you like your new headphone.  Cayin and oBravo had hosted joined events in Hong Kong sometime ago, and David Teng , founder of oBravo,  likes out DAPs and amplifiers very much, he bought a set of N8 as his reference player right after we launch our TOTL DAP and we exchanged hardwares at several audio shows, so I am not surprised that oBravo earphones and headphones sound great on Cayin amplifier.


----------



## Andykong

bluestorm1992 said:


> Trying the new MEST MKii with C9 tonight, and I am (once again) shocked by the improvement C9 can bing to this already wonderful IEM. Two biggest improvements I have noticed are (1) the soundstage becomes much more 3D; (2) the vocals becomes much more natural; feels like having a front-row seat and listening to the singer in the recording room.
> 
> Still don’t understand how Cayin is able to do this with its C9 magic, and I continue to be amazed by the performance of every single IEM I pair with it.
> 
> PS: I am sorry to say this, but my SP2000 alone is not even close to the C9 stack.



I have tried the new UM MEST at the Taipei Headphone Festival back in November last year, was absolutely stunned by C9+MEST, it was definitely the best portable setup I heard at that show, so I am not surprised that you had a very good time after you put on the MEST with C9.  The MEST is  sitting on the top of my C9 demo list after the show, till now.


----------



## michaelc

Finally I have a chance to demo a C9 around 1.5 hours with my iems. Few thoughts:
1.) It's as good as, if not better, than Hugo2
2.) The C9 is warm, not as hot as I thought around 1.5hours usage with tube & AB mode.
3.) The build is solid and classy 

Will test further if I have time tomorrow. It's a new unit without burn in yet. Does the sound quality improve further after burn in?


----------



## zen87192 (Apr 2, 2021)

zen87192 said:


> A simple little fix for me to do today. Noticed after a few hours of use the C9 and N6ii became warm.
> So I affixed four small self adhesive clear rubber pads on each unit to lift the N6ii up and to the bottom of the C9. This allows air movement to the two units and also protects the units from scratching each other.
> In addition, this prevents small movements when stacked causing the units to slip off. It's ideal and now I can listen without worrying about the slightest of movements bringing the units crashing down.





jmills8 said:


> The warmer the better it sounds , but if you prefer less hot and less great sound then feeling better is better.




Is this possibly true. I'm now beginning to think the same way as my home Tube Amp works in the same way.... The N6ii and C9 still warm up nicely but do not get overly hot which has been an item of concern with the C9.


----------



## zen87192

Dwelling on this in my non professional mind.... They N6ii and C9 would always reach their optimal temperatures of operation after an amount of time. My solution allows for this optimal temperature to be kept constant without allowing the units to overheat excessively. Just my mad five minutes of thought and OCD coming in to play 😂


----------



## DaYooper

zen87192 said:


> and OCD coming in to play


CDO, has to be in alphabetical order.


----------



## lumdicks (Apr 2, 2021)

michaelc said:


> Finally I have a chance to demo a C9 around 1.5 hours with my iems. Few thoughts:
> 1.) It's as good as, if not better, than Hugo2
> 2.) The C9 is warm, not as hot as I thought around 1.5hours usage with tube & AB mode.
> 3.) The build is solid and classy
> ...


Agreed on the amp part. C9 is way better but the beauty of Hugo is the DAC part, so it may not be an apple to apple comparison.


----------



## zen87192 (Apr 2, 2021)

DaYooper said:


> CDO, has to be in alphabetical order.



Nice one! This hobby will put me in that CDO position if I'm not careful as well DaYooper! It's costing an arm and a leg to get to the sounds I've been looking for. I'm almost there though... Yup.... 😂


----------



## RTodd (Apr 2, 2021)

zen87192 said:


> Nice one! This hobby will put me in that CDO position if I'm not careful as well DaYooper! It's costing an arm and a leg to get to the sounds I've been looking for. I'm almost there though... Yup.... 😂


That last yard is elusive $$$$s.


----------



## michaelc

lumdicks said:


> Agreed on the amp part. C9 is way better but the beauty of Hugo is the DAC part, so it may not be an apple to apple comparison.


I seldom use H2 after I got my LPGT Ti. Hence, I sold it. Do you recommend to get a H2 pair with C9?


----------



## lumdicks

michaelc said:


> I seldom use H2 after I got my LPGT Ti. Hence, I sold it. Do you recommend to get a H2 pair with C9?


Yes. I think the 2 are perfectly matched. I use my H2 as desktop DAC only and for portability, I agree that DAPs such as LPGT Ti is a much better choice.


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 2, 2021)

The C9 is only overly hot with

*Class A and Tube *

The longer it is on in this mode, the hotter it will get.  The class AB is only warm and not hot


----------



## michaelc

Whitigir said:


> The C9 is only overly hot with
> 
> *Class A and Tube *
> 
> The longer it is on in this mode, the hotter it will get.  The class AB is only warm and not hot



What is the differences btw class A and AB?


----------



## Whitigir

michaelc said:


> What is the differences btw class A and AB?


You can search for it.  The topic is a big one.  Here is an example
https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/class-vs-class-ab-guitar-amps/


----------



## zen87192

bluestorm1992 said:


> Edit: I am thinking MEST MKii is generally a safer bet if you do not have a super strong preference for a very specific kind of music, and it has a really good synergy with C9. In fact, Cayin and UM are from the same city and their employees have a very good relationship. I wouldn’t be surprised if the tuning of MEST is done with Cayin’s products. (Attached pic is from UM’s official Weibo).



bluestorm1992, I have now made up my mind of the UM Mest MK2.... Now just need to gather the nerve to drop 1500 on IEM's! My most expensive IEM so far is 300 😂


----------



## RTodd

zen87192 said:


> bluestorm1992, I have now made up my mind of the UM Mest MK2.... Now just need to gather the nerve to drop 1500 on IEM's! My most expensive IEM so far is 300 😂


----------



## zen87192

Yup... I'm walking a 'Rocky' road! 😂


----------



## DaYooper

I was trying to come up with some sort of clever response but the rocks in my head aren't really warmed up yet.


----------



## zen87192

😁 yeah...one needs to be 'Boxing' clever in this Audio 'Ring'! 

I'll get my coat...


----------



## RTodd

zen87192 said:


> 😁 yeah...one needs to be 'Boxing' clever in this Audio 'Ring'!
> 
> I'll get my coat...


*Adrian*


----------



## Whitigir

Class A is amplifying the original as is, and class AB trade off some of those original amplification for engineering voodoo hoodoo to gain more efficiency.

this voodoo engineering is the implementations of the architecture, the sound will be effected.  Because sound is subjective , some people may like AB and some people will prefer class A.  There is no right or wrong 

regardless, the fact remains, that Class A is wasting a lot of power but it fully amplifying the original signals as is, where AB has some “cheats” to gain efficiency


----------



## lucasratmundo

Delivered yesterday! I'm still going through my headphone and IEM collection with it but it's a noticeable upgrade from SP2000 for my IEMs (especially the MEST and Z1R) in terms of soundstage. It can drive all my headphones (Clear, Arya and Diana V2) super well. My preferred default mode is Tube + Class A so far, but I'm still exploring.


----------



## bluestorm1992

zen87192 said:


> bluestorm1992, I have now made up my mind of the UM Mest MK2.... Now just need to gather the nerve to drop 1500 on IEM's! My most expensive IEM so far is 300 😂


Go for it! C9 is such a great source and it deserves the best.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

zen87192 said:


> bluestorm1992, I have now made up my mind of the UM Mest MK2.... Now just need to gather the nerve to drop 1500 on IEM's! My most expensive IEM so far is 300 😂


Dude, go for it.     You have the best AMPs in the market.   You have no idea what is in store for you.   The MEST MKII is just the first step in a long journey toward sonic bliss.  With that purchase, you are just scratching the surface of what is possible with IEMs.

Next, you need to try a ZMF Verite Closed with that Primaluna EVO 400.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Just to add, MEST could be a really good choice because: (1) it is priced much more reasonably than many 3k IEMs while delivering a TOTL experience especially if you are into holographic soundstage; (2) it can really benefit from C9. Not all TOTL IEMs pair well with C9 (although I have found most of them do).


----------



## zen87192

ooooooo..... I see they are in stock at MusicTeck and 4.4mm is available.... twiddle fingers.... twiddle figers.... 😱💸


----------



## bigbeans

zen87192 said:


> ooooooo..... I see they are in stock at MusicTeck and 4.4mm is available.... twiddle fingers.... twiddle figers.... 😱💸


...well?


----------



## LabelH

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> @bluestorm1992 has the type of effect on people.   I gotta stop talking to him.  Every time he talks to me, I end up buying something.


this should be pinned


----------



## greenmac

Anyone using C9 with either :

Audeze LCD-2 Classic Closed or Dan Clark Adio Aeon 2 Noire​
would welcome impressions/comparison /pictures

thanks


----------



## Whitigir

The dx300 Amp11 , or stock Amp, _*does not have Ground connected*_

So, if you are using the Line out features, you don’t have to pay for a shielded (the right shield or the imitate shield), it would be wasted


----------



## zen87192

So... Whilst listening to this wonderful C9 I took the opportunity in some organisation of my gear. It was all over the place and I always seemed to be on the hunt for something all of the time. So I took an old cutlery box and dismantled the interior then lined it with nice soft carpet tiles cut to size. At least now all I need to do  is open and place atop the lid and listen. The C9 stays in place nicely thanks to the rubber pads underneath and all secure in one place for once. All my spares, batteries, charging cables and IEM's are in the clear segregated box. During this time of reorganisation I listened to a lot of electronic dance music and I must say that The C9 really takes command. Real solid sounds and beautiful treble coming through.


----------



## Kiats

@Andykong Thanks to you and your team at Cayin for making it possible to quickly send out a replacement C9 for my DOA one. Much appreciated. 🙏


----------



## michaelc (Apr 3, 2021)

michaelc said:


> Finally I have a chance to demo a C9 around 1.5 hours with my iems. Few thoughts:
> 1.) It's as good as, if not better, than Hugo2
> 2.) The C9 is warm, not as hot as I thought around 1.5hours usage with tube & AB mode.
> 3.) The build is solid and classy
> ...



I have spend another 2.5 hours demo C9. 1st 30mins for C9 to "warm up". 1 hour for z1r, another 1 hour for Traillii with LPGT Ti.
My setting with C9: line in, low gain, tube, class a.
I A/B few songs this time. Listen to my DAP 1st, then set line-out, listen to C9, vise versa.
Impression for IER-Z1r: LPGT Ti quite close to C9.
Impression for Traillii: Obvoius improvements. Bigger soundstage left & right, more 'vivid' positioning, more 'immersive experience'. I can't use the word "3D" coz I can't hear sound from behind but it pretty close to "3D"

Seems like BA drivers IEM is benefit more than dynamic driver iem from C9.


----------



## zen87192 (Apr 3, 2021)

Received my ISN USB Type - C to 4.4mm today.Wow! This is a quality item. Box and presentation is very good for a small low cost I.C. 
I have this as a back up so I can connect my mobile phone to the C9. Just connected it and crikey! That's a sound I wasn't expecting! Playing through Tidal (am aware it will be straight through, no MQA unfolding etc) on the phone to the C9 on High Gain, Solid State, AB...
It's amazing! This C9 can do nothing wrong! WOW!


----------



## zen87192

On another aspect. Do you think I can use this Rechargeable Battery to charge the C9? It's technically a Jump Start Vehicle Backup, but as you can see it has USB sockets, and if you see the detailed outputs on the back, I think it could be used. Any thoughts please?


----------



## Joseph Lin

Has anyone is US received updates from MusicTeck about the C9 pre-order? I have been on the waiting list and I have not heard anything from them yet.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Joseph Lin said:


> Has anyone is US received updates from MusicTeck about the C9 pre-order? I have been on the waiting list and I have not heard anything from them yet.


Just email them again and Andrew should give you a quick update.


----------



## DaYooper

bluestorm1992 said:


> Just email them again and Andrew should give you a quick update.


Expected arrival next week. As per email from Andrew.


----------



## Joseph Lin

bluestorm1992 said:


> Just email them again and Andrew should give you a quick update.


Thank you! I'll do exactly like what you suggested.


----------



## Tanalasta

Have any reviewers done a comparison with this and the WA11? I'm wondering if it is worth the upgrade (noting that there is no DAC in the C9.


----------



## Kiats

Chaps, quick Q: when you use the SP2000 or SP1000 LO into the C9, do you choose a lower output level? Just wondering what yields better sonics: lower output on the AKs, and higher gain output on the C9 or higher output on the AKs and low gain on the C9?


----------



## jmills8

Kiats said:


> Chaps, quick Q: when you use the SP2000 or SP1000 LO into the C9, do you choose a lower output level? Just wondering what yields better sonics: lower output on the AKs, and higher gain output on the C9 or higher output on the AKs and low gain on the C9?


You asking the professionals ?


----------



## Kiats

jmills8 said:


> You asking the professionals ?


Checking on any experiences with this.


----------



## LabelH

Kiats said:


> Chaps, quick Q: when you use the SP2000 or SP1000 LO into the C9, do you choose a lower output level? Just wondering what yields better sonics: lower output on the AKs, and higher gain output on the C9 or higher output on the AKs and low gain on the C9?





jonstatt said:


> Balanced 4.4 line out setting at 6v. The issue is simply the sp2k does not have dedicated line out circuitry. This result is expected. SP2k still sounds great with C9 , its just not the best as a line out source.


I have tested before with lower output LO doesn't make any difference. Remember to keep C9 with low gain.
But it's better if you try all available options, so you can decide yourself. Happy listening


----------



## Kiats

LabelH said:


> I have tested before with lower output LO doesn't make any difference. Remember to keep C9 with low gain.
> But it's better if you try all available options, so you can decide yourself. Happy listening



thanks for your thoughts @LabelH. Look forward to experimenting with this once I get my hands on the C9.


----------



## zen87192 (Apr 4, 2021)

Had a bit of a panic last night when using the C9 over many hours to sample what it has to offer. Battery life was extremely good but towards the end of battery life I found it a bit confusing. Those battery indicator lights seemed to have a life of their own and 'updated' only when the unit was switched off then back on. 'Updates' via the battery lights didn't seem to be true whilst in operation. My unit arrived fully charged in a sealed box and lasted just over 12 hours playing music and left on stand by! Not bad on the first run using a combo of settings! The lights began to disappear down to one, in a very short space of time, then the unit didn't switch on. Obviously,  I'm presuming very low battery power, so the unit may have refused to operate for protection? I recharged and it is now turning back on, displaying all battery lights and working. So today, I will run another series of listening sessions and keep an eye on the battery status including turning the C9 on and off and various intervals to see what happens.
Anybody else encountering battery issues or performance related things?


----------



## bluestorm1992

Kiats said:


> Chaps, quick Q: when you use the SP2000 or SP1000 LO into the C9, do you choose a lower output level? Just wondering what yields better sonics: lower output on the AKs, and higher gain output on the C9 or higher output on the AKs and low gain on the C9?


I used medium or high LO on SP2000. Both seem fine.


----------



## michaelc

Kiats said:


> thanks for your thoughts @LabelH. Look forward to experimenting with this once I get my hands on the C9.


How does the C9 drive your headphones collections?


----------



## bluestorm1992

Tanalasta said:


> Have any reviewers done a comparison with this and the WA11? I'm wondering if it is worth the upgrade (noting that there is no DAC in the C9.


I did, and I ended up selling the WA11. 

Having a busy weekend and will be able to share more thoughts on this topic later. Hit me up if I forget.


----------



## Kiats

michaelc said:


> How does the C9 drive your headphones collections?



unfortunately I was still experimenting with my FitEar customs when I realised that one channel of the nutube was not working when I switched to try tube. Will post my views once I get the replacement C9 in. I am likely to try it with Utopia, Sonorous X, D8000 and TH900. The other cans are too challenging even for the C9 I suspect.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

I just punched in an order for a C9 with Andrew.  I am joining the family!    @lumdicks pairing the C9 with his Hugo 2 was the deciding factor as I will be doing the same thing.    I also plan on testing it with the W2 and my iPhone and with my Hiby R6 2020.    I was going to do this last week, but I auditioned the Chord Hugo TT2 and M scaler and I almost went that direction instead.   I decided to postpone going in that direction until at least next year because I would have also had to purchase a high end tube amp and it wouldn't give me tube sound with my IEMs.    Maybe I'll get an m scaler to see what it does with the Hugo 2 + C9.    Woo hoo!


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 4, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I just punched in an order for a C9 with Andrew.  I am joining the family!    @lumdicks pairing the C9 with his Hugo 2 was the deciding factor as I will be doing the same thing.    I also plan on testing it with the W2 and my iPhone and with my Hiby R6 2020.    I was going to do this last week, but I auditioned the Chord Hugo TT2 and M scaler and I almost went that direction instead.   I decided to postpone going in that direction until at least next year because I would have also had to purchase a high end tube amp and it wouldn't give me tube sound with my IEMs.    Maybe I'll get an m scaler to see what it does with the Hugo 2 + C9.    Woo hoo!


Congrats and welcome to the club!!

Edit: I think you will benefit from your current step-by-step upgrade approach. TT2+MScaler is such a huge financial investment. With that much money stocked in those gears, you may not be able to explore the world of IEMs before your curiosity is fully satisfied.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> Congrats and welcome to the club!!
> 
> Edit: I think you will benefit from your current step-by-step upgrade approach. TT2+MScaler is such a huge financial investment. With that much money stocked in those gears, you may not be able to explore the world of IEMs before your curiosity is fully satisfied.


Agreed.   I am heading back for a second audition of the Legend X tomorrow with Josh at Empire Ears.


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Agreed.   I am heading back for a second audition of the Legend X tomorrow with Josh at Empire Ears.


That’s wonderful! So you are in Atlanta now? 

Also consider the Noble Sultan as well. I got one without a high expectation for it but it turned out to be my favorite. Best tuned mid-range I have heard. Not beating the bird, but just very much suits my taste when paired with SP2000. Although I should also note that since it is easy to drive, it does not benefit so much from C9.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> That’s wonderful! So you are in Atlanta now?
> 
> Also consider the Noble Sultan as well. I got one without a high expectation for it but it turned out to be my favorite. Best tuned mid-range I have heard. Not beating the bird, but just very much suits my taste when paired with SP2000. Although I should also note that since it is easy to drive, it does not benefit so much from C9.


@mvvRAZ said something similar about the Sultan.   Would love to hear it some day.    Now that CanJam Chicago is postponed until 2022, need to wait until CanJam Socal which I definitely plan on attending.     

I am looking forward to tube sound with my IEMs and seeing what the C9 can do with the Z1Rs which are very hard to drive.


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> @mvvRAZ said something similar about the Sultan.   Would love to hear it some day.    Now that CanJam Chicago is postponed until 2022, need to wait until CanJam Socal which I definitely plan on attending.
> 
> I am looking forward to tube sound with my IEMs and seeing what the C9 can do with the Z1Rs which are very hard to drive.


I think they can do home audition too. Just shoot them an email. 

Look forward to your impressions with C9 and your various gears!


----------



## zen87192

Focal Mg en route to me...🎧
Should be a good pairing with C9 and N6ii...


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> I think they can do home audition too. Just shoot them an email.
> 
> Look forward to your impressions with C9 and your various gears!


Noble Audio provides demo units?  Where are they located?   I thought the owner lived in Thailand.


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Noble Audio provides demo units?  Where are they located?   I thought the owner lived in Thailand.


Texas.  Yes I have seen people receiving audition units in their discussion thread.


----------



## lumdicks

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I just punched in an order for a C9 with Andrew.  I am joining the family!    @lumdicks pairing the C9 with his Hugo 2 was the deciding factor as I will be doing the same thing.    I also plan on testing it with the W2 and my iPhone and with my Hiby R6 2020.    I was going to do this last week, but I auditioned the Chord Hugo TT2 and M scaler and I almost went that direction instead.   I decided to postpone going in that direction until at least next year because I would have also had to purchase a high end tube amp and it wouldn't give me tube sound with my IEMs.    Maybe I'll get an m scaler to see what it does with the Hugo 2 + C9.    Woo hoo!


Congratulations and please share your view on the H2 and C9 pairing. To me it is kind of end-game at the moment for my desktop setup (despite I am tempting to get the Mcintosh MHA200.....) and I enjoy the pairing so much.

If I had not got the C9 in the first hand, I might also go along the path of Chord TT2. Now I am happy to save a big buck of money and enjoy my music day and night.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

zen87192 said:


> Focal Mg en route to me...🎧
> Should be a good pairing with C9 and N6ii...


Did you get the Clear or Clear Pro MG?     I got to hear them both.  That is such a great headphone.    They are easy to drive and sound good with everything.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

lumdicks said:


> Congratulations and please share your view on the H2 and C9 pairing. To me it is kind of end-game at the moment for my desktop setup (despite I am tempting to get the Mcintosh MHA200.....) and I enjoy the pairing so much.
> 
> If I had not got the C9 in the first hand, I might also go along the path of Chord TT2. Now I am happy to save a big buck of money and enjoy my music day and night.


I listened to my EE Odin and Sony IER-Z1R with the Chord Hugo TT2 and that was something special.   I want to A/B test the H2+C9 vs TT2.


----------



## bluestorm1992

With the work-from-home thing ending and traveling becoming a possibility again, I think people will see even further usages of C9. Put it in the office or bring it on the trip, and you will have TOTL sound anywhere you want.


----------



## lumdicks

Sleeping is not an option.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

lumdicks said:


> Hugo 2 is able to drive all of my IEMs and headphones (please see my signature) but I observe 2 issues. The first is the relative high noise floor that I hear small hiss with more sensitive IEMs such as FiR M5. Besides, while it is loud enough, I find that it lacks a bit control and authority in driving my CANs.
> 
> So I use the RCA to 3.5mm cable to connect my H2 to C9 via Preamp In and wow! The whole imaging, resolution, dynamics and micro details reach the next level. The background is completely black without any hiss and noise. H2 is among the best DACs in portable or even desktop world, so pairing with C9 gives me the best of both worlds.
> 
> Strangely that H2 does not pair well with C9 via line in. Not sure whether because of the relative high 3v RMS line level of H2 that I used but it sounds a bit muddy and congested. With preamp in the sound is much more transparent, musical and engaging.


Question about your connection between H2 and C9.    You are using RCA to 3.5mm.    Is there a reason you did not go RCA to 4.4m?


----------



## xand

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Question about your connection between H2 and C9.    You are using RCA to 3.5mm.    Is there a reason you did not go RCA to 4.4m?


RCA is single ended?


----------



## lumdicks

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Question about your connection between H2 and C9.    You are using RCA to 3.5mm.    Is there a reason you did not go RCA to 4.4m?


Hugo 2 does not have balanced analogue out so the RCA to 3.5mm is the only choice.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

xand said:


> RCA is single ended?


I thought that might be the case, but on Amazon there are a ton of cables from RCA to 4.4mm

https://www.amazon.com/4-4mm-Balanc...1&keywords=rca+to+4.4mm&qid=1617548621&sr=8-3


----------



## zen87192

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Did you get the Clear or Clear Pro MG?     I got to hear them both.  That is such a great headphone.    They are easy to drive and sound good with everything.


Sorry, my Tablet has a mind of its own and removes words when it feels like it.
I pre ordered the Focal Clear Mg a while ago and have just been notified of it arriving at the dealer.


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I thought that might be the case, but on Amazon there are a ton of cables from RCA to 4.4mm
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/4-4mm-Balanc...1&keywords=rca+to+4.4mm&qid=1617548621&sr=8-3


Likely to burn C9 with this cable because, as I understand it, there is no way for H2 to produce balanced signals.

Also, I don’t notice any auditable difference between 3.5 in and 4.4 in.  Both are excellent. C9’s 3.5-in to 4.4-out conversion is very good especially after burn in.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> Likely to burn C9 with this cable because, as I understand it, there is no way for H2 to produce balanced signals.
> 
> Also, I don’t notice any auditable difference between 3.5 in and 4.4 in.  Both are excellent. C9’s 3.5-in to 4.4-out conversion is very good especially after burn in.


Thanks.  I am very happy I asked the question before I bought any cables.


----------



## CANiSLAYu

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I thought that might be the case, but on Amazon there are a ton of cables from RCA to 4.4mm
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/4-4mm-Balanc...1&keywords=rca+to+4.4mm&qid=1617548621&sr=8-3


Those are to go from 4.4mm output to RCA input. Like connecting your DAP to a single ended amp. 

You can go BAL to SE, but never the other way around.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Apr 4, 2021)

CANiSLAYu said:


> Those are to go from 4.4mm output to RCA input. Like connecting your DAP to a single ended amp.
> 
> You can go BAL to SE, but never the other way around.


Got it.   I was just wondering why there were so many cables out there with 4.4mm.   Your explanation clarifies the issue.

edited to note:   I am going to avoid those cables with RCA and balanced terminations.   Same reason I avoid anything with 3.5mm balanced.    I can see my son looking at the plugs and trying it because it fits.    I try to avoid any combinations that could accidentally cause ground problems.


----------



## zen87192

Does anyone know if the white power light on the button changes to a different colour at any time to indicate something? Or does it just stay white when powered?


----------



## bluestorm1992

zen87192 said:


> Does anyone know if the white power light on the button changes to a different colour at any time to indicate something? Or does it just stay white when powered?


Just stayed white all the time for me. Does yours change to a different color?


----------



## zen87192

No... 🤣 Just asking in case I get a coronery seeing the C9 displaying a different fault code colour... like to be prepared.


----------



## lucasratmundo

I'm getting some background hissing with U12t in the C9. Any other U12t owners experiencing the same?


----------



## bluestorm1992

lucasratmundo said:


> I'm getting some background hissing with U12t in the C9. Any other U12t owners experiencing the same?


What is your source? I know that if you use SP2000 and with high gain of C9, you are likely to get hiss with IEMs. Switching C9 to low gain solves the issue.


----------



## lucasratmundo

bluestorm1992 said:


> What is your source? I know that if you use SP2000 and with high gain of C9, you are likely to get hiss with IEMs. Switching C9 to low gain solves the issue.


Yes, this is exactly my setup: SP2000 + C9. Using low gain solved the issue. Thanks!


----------



## lucasratmundo

bluestorm1992 said:


> What is your source? I know that if you use SP2000 and with high gain of C9, you are likely to get hiss with IEMs. Switching C9 to low gain solves the issue.


@bluestorm1992 Do you know if low gain stops the Odin from hissing too? I'm considering getting an Odin soon but I've been reading some mixed experiences with the Odin and C9.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 4, 2021)

lucasratmundo said:


> @bluestorm1992 Do you know if low gain stops the Odin from hissing too? I'm considering getting an Odin soon but I've been reading some mixed experiences with the Odin and C9.


Better to consult Alex @twister6 about this. Also, @HiFiHawaii808 is getting C9 soon and he has Odin as well. I remember Alex mentioned that the iFi IEMatch will help the pairing with Odin.

Edit: I can also report that Sultan is not a great pairing with C9, while SP2000 alone is an extremely good pairing with it. Not about the hiss issue, just the synergy.

Traillii is a very very good pairing with C9; it benefits so much from it. I am gonna try out MMR’s new flagship and QDC V14 as well. V14 had reported to be a very good pairing with C9.


----------



## Whitigir

CANiSLAYu said:


> Those are to go from 4.4mm output to RCA input. Like connecting your DAP to a single ended amp.
> 
> You can go BAL to SE, but never the other way around.


No, even the DAP with balanced, it just can not automatically go from balanced to single ended.  You will essentially short out the Negatives L and R toward ground.  It is only possible to use it this way if and only when the DAP itself has a differential stages that can automatically switch from balanced out to SE out when it detects a short.  I know the Ibasso Dx220Max can do so, and by far is the only DAP


----------



## Kiats

Kiats said:


> @Andykong Thanks to you and your team at Cayin for making it possible to quickly send out a replacement C9 for my DOA one. Much appreciated. 🙏


Quick Q, @Andykong : any ETA for the replacement C9? Zepp has been asked but no response. Guess they’re too busy with shoppers over the Easter weekend. Thanks!


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 5, 2021)

Tanalasta said:


> Have any reviewers done a comparison with this and the WA11? I'm wondering if it is worth the upgrade (noting that there is no DAC in the C9.


Got some time to give you a quick reply.

I will say C9 is a significant upgrade from WA11. To me C9 has  three clear advantages over WA11:

C9 can deliver wonderful performance with both IEMs and headphones. WA11 is not really designed to be used with IEMs.
C9 has a much better versatility. It has two timbre (tube!/SS) and two classes (A/AB) and has both 3.5 and 4.4 for input and output. On the other hand, WA11 is relatively restrictive as it only has one mode (SS) and only has a 4.4 output.
Even for the SS mode alone, C9 performs better than WA11. I used to have WA11 to drive Diana V2. Although it had plenty of power, the background distortion of WA11 was so significant. (This is with LPGT as the dedicated source). I ended up selling it to get a Broadway Amp which is a significant step up. I hold on to the Broadway Amp until I acquired C9. I found the performance between C9 and Broadway to be almost identical in driving the V2, so I sold the Broadway and have been keeping C9 as the driver for V2.
A final quick point is that the DAC in WA11 is really bad based on both my subjective listening experience and measurements. So, unless you really cherish the ability to have an all-in-one device, I don’t think WA11 will be able to compete with C9. Of course, C9 is also more expensive, so this is something to consider.


----------



## infinitejustice

lucasratmundo said:


> @bluestorm1992 Do you know if low gain stops the Odin from hissing too? I'm considering getting an Odin soon but I've been reading some mixed experiences with the Odin and C9.


Odin is my go to iem, and I use SP2k ss (also have cu but ss is my daily driver), and C9.

sp2k is aready amazing with Odin, no hiss. I use C9 with it usually in tube+class A mode, low gain, 6v LO from sp2k ss, I don’t hear any hiss. (Odin+stormbreaker cable)

As for improvement, to be honest Odin pairing with sp2k is already excellent. Adding C9 does not improve stage or detail or anything like that I do it for the change in tonality, the tube in c9 makes it a little more smooth and a tad warmer. Low end, bass, mid bass hits a little harder.

C9 effect is much more prominent with other iem, but for Odin, only slightly. More like changing flavor, to an already excellent highly detail and transparent pairing.


----------



## Whitigir

C9 is worth every pennies


----------



## xand

bluestorm1992 said:


> Better to consult Alex @twister6 about this. Also, @HiFiHawaii808 is getting C9 soon and he has Odin as well. I remember Alex mentioned that the iFi IEMatch will help the pairing with Odin.



I suggest you try Odin... 😁


----------



## xand

CANiSLAYu said:


> Those are to go from 4.4mm output to RCA input. Like connecting your DAP to a single ended amp.
> 
> You can go BAL to SE, but never the other way around.



Actually I'm not even sure it's safe to do this, pretty sure that connecting a dap balanced output to a single ended cable will cause a short.

It may be possible to go from a single ended output to a 4.4mm input, but there's no advantage...


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 5, 2021)

xand said:


> Actually I'm not even sure it's safe to do this, pretty sure that connecting a dap balanced output to a single ended cable will cause a short.
> 
> It may be possible to go from a single ended output to a 4.4mm input, but there's no advantage...


Even as a source and toward an amp, you can not simply go from SE source into Balanced input Amp, unless you are so sure that the Amplifier has the ability to differentiate the Negative signals L- and R-, otherwise it will be shorted within the amplifier balanced stages, and you may ended up burning your input stage

The Balanced toward single ended is only applicable toward Headphones and it adaptor only as the headphones is just a mechanism that make sounds from the signals.  When you are talking about electrical devices, it no longer applied , the devices have to have the ability or was designed for such purposes

Usually, if an amp can take SE input and output balanced, then it can and is more likely to be able to differentiate SE sources into Balanced input on it ports as the input stage is usually sharing the same circuit.  However, there are also amplifier that separate them and dedicatedly feeding the amp.  

you have to make sure what your amp is capable of by contacting your amp manufacturer


----------



## Joseph Lin

Does anyone auditioned DX300 and N6ii with C9 before? Can you share your thought? I am debating whether to get Dx 300 or N6ii to pair with C9.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 5, 2021)

Joseph Lin said:


> Does anyone auditioned DX300 and N6ii with C9 before? Can you share your thought? I am debating whether to get Dx 300 or N6ii to pair with C9.


Not having DX300 for a comparison, but got N6ii, and if you want to buy it, make sure you get the A02 motherboard version.


----------



## Whitigir

Joseph Lin said:


> Does anyone auditioned DX300 and N6ii with C9 before? Can you share your thought? I am debating whether to get Dx 300 or N6ii to pair with C9.


N6ii and A02 is my preferred choice over dx300 for C9


----------



## xand (Apr 5, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> The Balanced toward single ended is only applicable toward Headphones and it adaptor only as the headphones is just a mechanism that make sounds from the signals.  When you are talking about electrical devices, it no longer applied , the devices have to have the ability or was designed for such purposes



Isn't it a really bad idea to plug a 4.4mm male to 3.5mm (single ended) female adaptor into a balanced PO? Thought that would kill it..

It's of course fine to do 3.5 (single ended) male to 4.4 mm female, then plug headphones with 4.4mm male plug into the 4.4mm female..

We might be talking about the same thing.. haha.

---

Oh any anyone who has a EE Zeus XR, before you consider changing headphones, listen to it out of C9 first.

While to me the Utopia is superior (A/B, long term comfort, less fatigue from pressure), while both are from DX300 (balanced) -> C9 (balanced), I'm perfectly happy with the Zeus, at least for 1.5 hours.

---


Whitigir said:


> N6ii and A02 is my preferred choice over dx300 for C9



Just to confirm that this is the case even for offline use (i.e. Mango OS for DX300)?

@Joseph Lin Most impressions I've seen indicate that N6ii with A02 is the best portable source of them all, for C9 - at the moment. May not be the case for long - see: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/iba...rmware-2-6-2021.943221/page-349#post-16279580


----------



## xand

OMG iBasso has confirmed that a dedicated LO is coming to DX300!

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/iba...rmware-2-6-2021.943221/page-349#post-16279580



Paul - iBasso said:


> Yes, we will have a dedicated LO coming fairly soon.


----------



## bluestorm1992

xand said:


> OMG iBasso has confirmed that a dedicated LO is coming to DX300!
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/iba...rmware-2-6-2021.943221/page-349#post-16279580


Wow that’s great!! Seems like DX300 is the option going forward.


----------



## Joseph Lin

bluestorm1992 said:


> Wow that’s great!! Seems like DX300 is the option going forward.


Why do you think it is the case? Is DX300 technically better?


----------



## bluestorm1992

Joseph Lin said:


> Why do you think it is the case? Is DX300 technically better?


N6ii’s UI is a bit outdated and laggy. Cayin should be planning to launch a new Android DAP soon, although that could now take a while cue to the global chip shortage.


----------



## Whitigir

xand said:


> Isn't it a really bad idea to plug a 4.4mm male to 3.5mm (single ended) female adaptor into a balanced PO? Thought that would kill it..
> 
> It's of course fine to do 3.5 (single ended) male to 4.4 mm female, then plug headphones with 4.4mm male plug into the 4.4mm female..
> 
> ...


To clarify, if your headphones is terminated for Balanced, you can use an adaptor that is female balanced into SE male plug.  So you can use it with SE output player, *and that is the only scenario* that you can versatile doing balanced to SE


----------



## RTodd (Apr 5, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> To clarify, if your headphones is terminated for Balanced, you can use an adaptor that is female balanced into SE male plug.  So you can use it with SE output player, *and that is the only scenario* that you can versatile doing balanced to SE


I found a caution on Moon Audio that may be helpful;

https://www.moon-audio.com/balanced-adaptors-caution

You may need to type it in, for some reason the link did not work for me, it has not moved though.


----------



## xand

Whitigir said:


> To clarify, if your headphones is terminated for Balanced, you can use an adaptor that is female balanced into SE male plug.  So you can use it with SE output player, *and that is the only scenario* that you can versatile doing balanced to SE



I think this is right.

However, I think I know how 4.4mm to RCA can work - for example: 

From: https://store.hifiman.com/index.php/r2r2000-hd-streaming-audio-device.html






The source NEEDS to connect ground though, which is not always the case (for example, I'm reasonably sure that the 4.4mm balanced output of the DX300 Amp 11/Amp11 MK2 doesn't connect ground, as tested by @Whitigir). The Hifiman r2r2000 apparently does...


----------



## gazzington

I’m thinking of buying a c9 to partner a hiby r8 or shanling m8. What iems or headphones have people found to have the biggest wow moment with the c9?


----------



## michaelc

gazzington said:


> I’m thinking of buying a c9 to partner a hiby r8 or shanling m8. What iems or headphones have people found to have the biggest wow moment with the c9?


Oriolus Traillii, aka, the bird


----------



## jmills8

michaelc said:


> Oriolus Traillii, aka, the bird


6,000 usd , bet its not better than a used TH900.


----------



## michaelc

jmills8 said:


> 6,000 usd , bet its not better than a used TH900.



I haven't try TH900 with C9 yet. Will update if I have the opportunity to test this combo.


----------



## Nostoi

michaelc said:


> I haven't try TH900 with C9 yet. Will update if I have the opportunity to test this combo.


I should be getting my C9 this week and will also give it a whirl with my TH900 if helpful.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 6, 2021)

gazzington said:


> I’m thinking of buying a c9 to partner a hiby r8 or shanling m8. What iems or headphones have people found to have the biggest wow moment with the c9?


In my own experience:

MEST
MMR Gae Bolg
Traillii
U18t
Dita XLS

Some other positive pairings I have seen/will try:
Dunu Zen, Luna, 112, QDC V14, LCD i4, Sony IER-Z1R.

Headphones:
Abyss Diana V2, ZMF Verite Closed, Meze Empyrean.


----------



## Kiats

bluestorm1992 said:


> In my own experience:
> 
> MEST
> MMR Gae Bolg
> ...


I recall reading someone rave about the A8000? 

My Empy has landed. Now just waiting for the replacement C9 to arrive.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> In my own experience:
> 
> MEST
> MMR Gae Bolg
> ...


We need a way to update this list and track the various pairings.

I am surprised that Odin didn't fair well with the C9.    When I paired it with the Chord Hugo TT2, it really was able to separate itself from the rest of what I own with everything except the Z1Rs which has the most benefit.


----------



## gazzington

Kiats said:


> I recall reading someone rave about the A8000?
> 
> My Empy has landed. Now just waiting for the replacement C9 to arrive.


I can imagine the c9 making the a8000 a bit less peaky if you use tubes


----------



## xand (Apr 6, 2021)

gazzington said:


> I’m thinking of buying a c9 to partner a hiby r8 or shanling m8. What iems or headphones have people found to have the biggest wow moment with the c9?



EE Zeus with a PW Audio copper cable is MUCH MUCH better with a C9 than directly out of a DX300. The improvement is not as obvious with a different cable but there's still an improvement.

Utopia is noticeably better out of a C9 than directly out of a DX300, enough so that I was happy to buy the C9 over a Focal Arche. 

TH600 (which I preferred to a TH900 at time of purchase) is pretty good out of the DX300->C9 (with the Grado adaptor) - it's better than a Naim DAC-V1 anyway. Haven't bothered trying the TH600 directly out of the DX300. Since I have Utopia and Zeus (which both do very well in my chain) the TH600 rarely gets any time nowadays. 



iFi audio said:


> A sort of
> 
> https://ifi-audio.com/faqs/the-iematch-is-not-an-impedance-adapter/



Could you confirm that this is actually what iematch is?

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...asurements-of-ifi-ear-buddy-and-iematch.4707/






(It's really not an impedence adaptor.)


----------



## Whitigir

The IEmatch is a voltage divider.  It really is a wonderful addition to tame hiss as it is not an adaptor


----------



## Kiats

Kiats said:


> Quick Q, @Andykong : any ETA for the replacement C9? Zepp has been asked but no response. Guess they’re too busy with shoppers over the Easter weekend. Thanks!


@Andykong Hey Andy! Don’t suppose Cayin has any visibility on ETA of the replacement for the DOA C9? Thanks! 🙏


----------



## jmills8

Kiats said:


> @Andykong Hey Andy! Don’t suppose Cayin has any visibility on ETA of the replacement for the DOA C9? Thanks! 🙏


----------



## Kiats

Nah... just happy anticipation


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 7, 2021)

Cayin’s general manager made a teaser in C9’s user group yesterday that Cayin will have a new product release event in May (not an April fool’s announcement lol). It is very likely to be a new player as it begins with “N”.

Edit: If you are a C9 user and wish to join the C9 user WeChat group, shoot me a PM.


----------



## Kiats

Interestingly, one week on from my DOA C9, I am still getting mixed signals from the Singapore AD on what is happening to my replacement C9. 

@Andykong I've sent you a PM. Please respond. Thanks!


----------



## Nostoi

Just arrived. Impressions to follow. First thoughts: I was *very* lucky not to pay a massive customs fee on this, after importing it from AMP3 in UK. Second: build quality is phenomenal! Wow. Impressive in the hand. 

I literally just received it, but quickly tested out my ZMF VC and am thrilled with the sound. Drives them with ease, plenty of headspace. 

More to come.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Kiats said:


> Interestingly, one week on from my DOA C9, I am still getting mixed signals from the Singapore AD on what is happening to my replacement C9.
> 
> @Andykong I've sent you a PM. Please respond. Thanks!


AFAIK, Cayin will/has already sent a new shipment of C9 to SG. Perhaps yours is on this shipment? Cayin has units in stock, so the supply should not take too long hopefully.


----------



## Kiats (Apr 8, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> AFAIK, Cayin will/has already sent a new shipment of C9 to SG. Perhaps yours is on this shipment? Cayin has units in stock, so the supply should not take too long hopefully.


Thanks @bluestorm1992 . Well, the store I got them from was informed by the AD the replacement unit was shipped out last Friday because it was a DOA. But today when the AD was asked again, the reply was it was just sent out and will arrive soon. So what happened to the unit which was allegedly shipped out last Friday?  Hence you can understand why I am vexed. Whilst I do appreciate what Cayin is doing in this space, if the customer experience is so bad when I need help, then perhaps I wonder if it is worth the grief. Sigh...


----------



## bluestorm1992

Kiats said:


> Thanks @bluestorm1992 . Well, the store I got them from was informed but the AD the replacement unit was shipped out last Friday because it was a DOA. But today when the AD was asked again, the reply was it was just sent out and will arrive soon. So what happened to the unit which was allegedly shipped out last Friday?  Hence you can understand why I am vexed.


Hmm that’s indeed mixed up, but the good news is that yours should have been sent out already. I also know that SG AD did request and get two shipments of C9.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Nostoi said:


> Just arrived. Impressions to follow. First thoughts: I was *very* lucky not to pay a massive customs fee on this, after importing it from AMP3 in UK. Second: build quality is phenomenal! Wow. Impressive in the hand.
> 
> I literally just received it, but quickly tested out my ZMF VC and am thrilled with the sound. Drives them with ease, plenty of headspace.
> 
> More to come.


Congrats! Seems that C9 is worth the wait. I also think it pairs very well with VC.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Nostoi said:


> Just arrived. Impressions to follow. First thoughts: I was *very* lucky not to pay a massive customs fee on this, after importing it from AMP3 in UK. Second: build quality is phenomenal! Wow. Impressive in the hand.
> 
> I literally just received it, but quickly tested out my ZMF VC and am thrilled with the sound. Drives them with ease, plenty of headspace.
> 
> More to come.


Please give us detailed impressions.    I have a ZMF VC and the tube timbre is one of the reasons I bought the C9.


----------



## Nostoi

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Please give us detailed impressions.    I have a ZMF VC and the tube timbre is one of the reasons I bought the C9.


Will do. 

Just been on a trip pairing my TH900 with the C9 via Hugo 2 - outstanding mix! I wasn't expecting the Hugo 2/C9 to be ideal, because of the lack of line out, but it actually pairs beautifully - generating a hefty but controlled bottom and making the overall presentation far more authoritative. 

I was just comparing the C9 with my Sparkos Aires desktop amp, and the C9 easily holds its ground - indeed, technically they're about on the same level, give or take. 

So far, enjoying the tube timbre with class a option - combines warmth with technical excellence, and not in any sense "lush," which is good news. 

Will give ZMF VC report soon.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Nostoi said:


> Will do.
> 
> Just been on a trip pairing my TH900 with the C9 via Hugo 2 - outstanding mix! I wasn't expecting the Hugo 2/C9 to be ideal, because of the lack of line out, but it actually pairs beautifully - generating a hefty but controlled bottom and making the overall presentation far more authoritative.
> 
> ...


I am excited about H2 + C9 pairing.   The Hugo 2 DAC out performs a lot of full sized desktop DACs.    Great transportable DAC paired with great transportable and feature rich AMP.  Perfect together on paper.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Nostoi said:


> Will do.
> 
> Just been on a trip pairing my TH900 with the C9 via Hugo 2 - outstanding mix! I wasn't expecting the Hugo 2/C9 to be ideal, because of the lack of line out, but it actually pairs beautifully - generating a hefty but controlled bottom and making the overall presentation far more authoritative.
> 
> ...


Looks quite promising in your setup! For H2 + C9, you may also try the pre-mode from C9 as recommended by @lumdicks, but please be VERY careful the first time you operate it. Make sure not to have your IEMs/headphones on your ears when testing the pre mode.


----------



## zen87192 (Apr 8, 2021)

Welcome to the owners club Nostoi. You are in for a real treat!


----------



## Nostoi

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I am excited about H2 + C9 pairing.   The Hugo 2 DAC out performs a lot of full sized desktop DACs.    Great transportable DAC paired with great transportable and feature rich AMP.  Perfect together on paper.


First impressions of C9 and ZMF VC:

1. Oodles of power. I never have to turn it beyond 13:00 to achieve maximum listening level. So, there is no question whatsoever of the C9's power potential.
2. Again, I'm A'B'ing with my Sparkos Aries, which is my default amp for the VC. With the Hugo 2 as source, the C9 gives the VC an authoritative clout, with excellent control and impressive technical merits. Imaging, seperation, and micro-details are all stellar.
3. Running through my "audiophile reference" playlist, the overall impression is of an immersive presentation with impressive 3D like quality (currently listening to Morph the Cat by Donald Fagan). The timbre is also very engaging; incredibly natural and lifelike without at all being fatiguing. The Sparkos Aries also shares this character, but it's a more revealing and more unforgiving amplifier. 
4. Even with tube mode on, I don't sense any significant colouring to the point it overpowers the source. The Hugo 2 is still present, but enhanced in every sense. BTW: I find the Hugo 2 picky when it comes to amp pairing. I've tried it with a few tube amps, and it never worked. Here, it works supremely well. Kudos to Cayin. 
5. I'm almost tempted to say I prefer the C9 with the VC over the Sparkos. It has an incredibly satisfying sense of "oomph," as though there was more air passing through the VC.  The VC also sound _fast _with the C9. This is definitely not a sloppy or mushy pairing. Metal (at least classic metal from 1982-1992) sounds outstanding. Tight, punchy, outstanding clarity, impressive resolution. 
6. On pure class a, SS mode - you gain some sense of transparency, a little more air, with a slightly more precise imaging. 

In sum, VC and C9 - winning combo. I can't imagine anyone not hearing this combo and feeling satisfied. 

I'll go through my other headphones soon (curious to see what the C9 does with my 600ohm Beyers, just out of interest).


----------



## Nostoi

A brief thought on the C9 vs BX2 Plus, as a few people were curious. 

There's no doubt to me that the C9 drives the ZMF VC as well as the BX2 Plus, despite having less output power than the BX2 Plus. I think ultimately the choice would come down to budget and taste. The BX2 Plus has a more linear tuning - a reference tuning. The C9's SS mode seems to have a little more weight to it. Ostensibly, the C9 is "better" on all fronts (technically, in terms of implementation, build, features, etc), but it should be at the price. That said, as a SS portable amp, the BX2 Plus remains a fantastic amp.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Nostoi said:


> First impressions of C9 and ZMF VC:
> 
> 1. Oodles of power. I never have to turn it beyond 13:00 to achieve maximum listening level. So, there is no question whatsoever of the C9's power potential.
> 2. Again, I'm A'B'ing with my Sparkos Aries, which is my default amp for the VC. With the Hugo 2 as source, the C9 gives the VC an authoritative clout, with excellent control and impressive technical merits. Imaging, seperation, and micro-details are all stellar.
> ...


Awesome.  Do you have a full sized tube amp?  Wondering how the C9 compares.


----------



## Nostoi

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Awesome.  Do you have a full sized tube amp?  Wondering how the C9 compares.


I don't have one to hand but I've owned and demo'd various tube amps before. It definitely outclasses something like the Pathos Aurium (which is a great amp). I'd say the C9 is a little closer to the microZOTL MZ2 (another great amp). I had most of the other portable tube amps, and they're not even in the same discussion as the C9 (tbh, I'd consider them more of novelty tube amps).


----------



## kwilkins

Hi, I am hoping someone can give me advice on paring the Hugo 2 with the C9.  I've had the C9 for a while and love it, I just received the Hugo 2.  Comparing the two (sound quality wise) I find them in the same league as each other, just with different sound signatures.  I was hoping adding the H2 to the C9 would give a nice leap in sound quality but was a bit disappointed in my first listen.

I've put the H2 in 3v RMS line level mode and connected to the C9 via a cheap RCA to 3.5mm cable.  I had one of these $5 cables and know I should get something better but wanted to give it a try.  I was using Tube A mode to listen to a few songs on the Utopia's, that is the only HP I have tried so far because I was pressed for time.  Things sounded fine but I didn't notice a significant improvement in SQ from just using the C9 or the H2 on their own.

I see from some posts a few people are very impressed with the H2 and C9.  Can you share with me what cables you are using and how you have that stack setup?  Maybe the cheap RCA cable was limiting things more than I thought it would.  The H2 has so many connection options that I'm not sure which I should be using to get the very best SQ when paired with the C9.  I'm happy to purchase high quality cables, I just want to be sure I'm getting the right ones.  

Thanks for any advice you can give me.  I'm fairly new to this hobby and still have a lot to learn.


----------



## Nostoi

BTW, fits very neatly into a Peli 1170 case plus DAP, though I need to re-foam mine:


----------



## Whitigir

Nostoi said:


> BTW, fits very neatly into a Peli 1170 case plus DAP, though I need to re-foam mine:


Nice and neatly packed, but do you plug and unplug often ?


----------



## Nostoi (Apr 8, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> Nice and neatly packed, but do you plug and unplug often ?


It all depends. I have a 2 year old toddler and live in an old Viennese apartment, which is prone to dust, so some precautions have to be made at the expensive of ease-of-use.

I don't ever see me using the C9 out and about to be honest. It's heavy, nicely heavy - but heavy. And hot. Travelling to hotels/conferences, yes. Long train journeys, sure. I'll put it in the Peli case. But going about my daily life, no way.

Edit - taking it to a cafe/library is feasible, though in a cafe I'd be paranoid about spillages.


----------



## Nostoi

bluestorm1992 said:


> Looks quite promising in your setup! For H2 + C9, you may also try the pre-mode from C9 as recommended by @lumdicks, but please be VERY careful the first time you operate it. Make sure not to have your IEMs/headphones on your ears when testing the pre mode.


Just tried this, and glad I read the manual carefully before doing so, because even when I thought I turned all volumes down, it still blasted out (headphones were not on at the time). Indeed, there is a nice elevation in detail retrieval and dynamics in pre-mode. Listening to my Audio-Technica ATH-AWKT, which are sounding great - terrific slam with excellent control.


----------



## Nostoi

kwilkins said:


> Hi, I am hoping someone can give me advice on paring the Hugo 2 with the C9.  I've had the C9 for a while and love it, I just received the Hugo 2.  Comparing the two (sound quality wise) I find them in the same league as each other, just with different sound signatures.  I was hoping adding the H2 to the C9 would give a nice leap in sound quality but was a bit disappointed in my first listen.
> 
> I've put the H2 in 3v RMS line level mode and connected to the C9 via a cheap RCA to 3.5mm cable.  I had one of these $5 cables and know I should get something better but wanted to give it a try.  I was using Tube A mode to listen to a few songs on the Utopia's, that is the only HP I have tried so far because I was pressed for time.  Things sounded fine but I didn't notice a significant improvement in SQ from just using the C9 or the H2 on their own.
> 
> ...


I think you're limiting yourself with a $5 cable. I use this 3.5mm IC, which currently has a *massive* reduction, so grab while you can. For RCA, I use this Kimber cable, but many other people can offer other recommendations. 

Switching between line/pre mode, as suggested above, may also prove fruitful.


----------



## michaelc

kwilkins said:


> Hi, I am hoping someone can give me advice on paring the Hugo 2 with the C9.  I've had the C9 for a while and love it, I just received the Hugo 2.  Comparing the two (sound quality wise) I find them in the same league as each other, just with different sound signatures.  I was hoping adding the H2 to the C9 would give a nice leap in sound quality but was a bit disappointed in my first listen.
> 
> I've put the H2 in 3v RMS line level mode and connected to the C9 via a cheap RCA to 3.5mm cable.  I had one of these $5 cables and know I should get something better but wanted to give it a try.  I was using Tube A mode to listen to a few songs on the Utopia's, that is the only HP I have tried so far because I was pressed for time.  Things sounded fine but I didn't notice a significant improvement in SQ from just using the C9 or the H2 on their own.
> 
> ...


 You may check with @lumdicks or @bluestorm1992


----------



## bluestorm1992

kwilkins said:


> Hi, I am hoping someone can give me advice on paring the Hugo 2 with the C9.  I've had the C9 for a while and love it, I just received the Hugo 2.  Comparing the two (sound quality wise) I find them in the same league as each other, just with different sound signatures.  I was hoping adding the H2 to the C9 would give a nice leap in sound quality but was a bit disappointed in my first listen.
> 
> I've put the H2 in 3v RMS line level mode and connected to the C9 via a cheap RCA to 3.5mm cable.  I had one of these $5 cables and know I should get something better but wanted to give it a try.  I was using Tube A mode to listen to a few songs on the Utopia's, that is the only HP I have tried so far because I was pressed for time.  Things sounded fine but I didn't notice a significant improvement in SQ from just using the C9 or the H2 on their own.
> 
> ...


Me and @lumdicks prefer using the pre mode of C9 when paired with H2. To do that, reset your H2 to be the *regular* mode first. Then, follow the user manual to turn on the pre mode of C9, and make sure NOT to have your headphone on your ears while testing this.

As for the IC, just use the stock 3.5 mm IC and the regular headphone out from H2.


----------



## lumdicks

kwilkins said:


> Hi, I am hoping someone can give me advice on paring the Hugo 2 with the C9.  I've had the C9 for a while and love it, I just received the Hugo 2.  Comparing the two (sound quality wise) I find them in the same league as each other, just with different sound signatures.  I was hoping adding the H2 to the C9 would give a nice leap in sound quality but was a bit disappointed in my first listen.
> 
> I've put the H2 in 3v RMS line level mode and connected to the C9 via a cheap RCA to 3.5mm cable.  I had one of these $5 cables and know I should get something better but wanted to give it a try.  I was using Tube A mode to listen to a few songs on the Utopia's, that is the only HP I have tried so far because I was pressed for time.  Things sounded fine but I didn't notice a significant improvement in SQ from just using the C9 or the H2 on their own.
> 
> ...


Interconnect apart, try not using the the 3V RMS of H2 with C9. Instead, just use H2 as a Pre-amp to C9 with the Pre In mode. As such, the C9 will act as a power amp with maximum output, and you can control the volume via H2. As reminded by @bluestorm1992, please turn your volume of H2 to minimum first to prevent accidentally trigger the pre mode with unbearable high volume, which may be damage to you CAN or your hearing. With this pairing, you can preserve the sound quality of H2 at maximum, and at the same time enjoy the driving power and timbre (tube or SS, Class A or AB) of C9.


----------



## lumdicks

Nostoi said:


> First impressions of C9 and ZMF VC:
> 
> 1. Oodles of power. I never have to turn it beyond 13:00 to achieve maximum listening level. So, there is no question whatsoever of the C9's power potential.
> 2. Again, I'm A'B'ing with my Sparkos Aries, which is my default amp for the VC. With the Hugo 2 as source, the C9 gives the VC an authoritative clout, with excellent control and impressive technical merits. Imaging, seperation, and micro-details are all stellar.
> ...


A bit off-topic here - knowing that you originally wanted to get the Audio-Technica AT-BHA100 but in vain, and bought the Sparkos Aries instead. Just want to share that I have just got the Audio-technica and it is amazing! I enjoy pairing my Hugo 2 to both of the C9 and the Audio-technica so let's audition it if you have chance.


----------



## bluestorm1992

lumdicks said:


> A bit off-topic here - knowing that you originally wanted to get the Audio-Technica AT-BHA100 but in vain, and bought the Sparkos Aries instead. Just want to share that I have just got the Audio-technica and it is amazing! I enjoy pairing my Hugo 2 to both of the C9 and the Audio-technica so let's audition it if you have chance.


Man do you get new toys on a weekly basis? 🤯


----------



## Whitigir

Nostoi said:


> It all depends. I have a 2 year old toddler and live in an old Viennese apartment, which is prone to dust, so some precautions have to be made at the expensive of ease-of-use.
> 
> I don't ever see me using the C9 out and about to be honest. It's heavy, nicely heavy - but heavy. And hot. Travelling to hotels/conferences, yes. Long train journeys, sure. I'll put it in the Peli case. But going about my daily life, no way.
> 
> Edit - taking it to a cafe/library is feasible, though in a cafe I'd be paranoid about spillages.


The reason I asked is that with Pelicans case, you can stack it up, and that will avoid the plugging and unplugging of the IC each time you take it out and put it back in.  I use it this way and almost always paired with A02


----------



## lumdicks

bluestorm1992 said:


> Man do you get new toys on a weekly basis? 🤯


I must stop........... should stay here for a while...............hopefully.


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> Man do you get new toys on a weekly basis? 🤯


Lol! Do you have the time to enjoy them all ?


----------



## noplsestar (Apr 8, 2021)

Nostoi said:


> I think you're limiting yourself with a $5 cable. I use this 3.5mm IC, which currently has a *massive* reduction, so grab while you can. For RCA, I use this Kimber cable, but many other people can offer other recommendations.
> 
> Switching between line/pre mode, as suggested above, may also prove fruitful.


thanks for that tip with the interconnect cable. I have about 10 right now, but for this price I grabbed the ALO in an instant


----------



## bluestorm1992

lumdicks said:


> I must stop........... should stay here for a while...............hopefully.


I hear you man. Last week I got the Sultan, was very happy with it, and thought I could stop in the search of IEMs for a while (well, until QDC V14 comes out). This week, I am looking at my headphone and contemplating Empyrean and Final D8000 Pro...

C9 opens up so many possibilities. Now I am down in two rabbit holes at the same time:  IEMs and headphones.


----------



## lumdicks

Whitigir said:


> Lol! Do you have the time to enjoy them all ?


I am trying my best. Working from home helps a lot and I listen to different gears while not having any Zoom Meeting.

When I go to office, I bring along my DAPs and IEMs. When I stay at home, I use my desktop setup and CANS.

Luckily I do not have another hobby currently......


----------



## lumdicks

bluestorm1992 said:


> I hear you man. Last week I got the Sultan, was very happy with it, and thought I could stop in the search of IEMs for a while (well, until QDC V14 comes out). This week, I am looking at my headphone and contemplating Empyrean and Final D8000 Pro...
> 
> C9 opens up so many possibilities. Now I am down in two rabbit holes at the same time:  IEMs and headphones.


I have already gone through both and believe me, it is painful but sweet.


----------



## bluestorm1992

lumdicks said:


> I am trying my best. Working from home helps a lot and I listen to different gears while not having any Zoom Meeting.
> 
> When I go to office, I bring along my DAPs and IEMs. When I stay at home, I use my desktop setup and CANS.
> 
> Luckily I do not have another hobby currently......


People here have discussed hobbies like watches and vintage cars. Compared to them, audio gears are VERY affordable.

Yes, this is how I have been comforting myself.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> I hear you man. Last week I got the Sultan, was very happy with it, and thought I could stop in the search of IEMs for a while (well, until QDC V14 comes out). This week, I am looking at my headphone and contemplating Empyrean and Final D8000 Pro...
> 
> C9 opens up so many possibilities. Now I am down in two rabbit holes at the same time:  IEMs and headphones.


What is most impressive is not even the purchases of multiple products that do the same thing.   What's most impressive is the rationale we use to justify those purchases.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> People here have discussed hobbies like watches and vintage cars. Compared to them, audio gears are VERY affordable.
> 
> Yes, this is how I have been comforting myself.


This is exactly what I meant by my last post.   Haha.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Nostoi said:


> BTW, fits very neatly into a Peli 1170 case plus DAP, though I need to re-foam mine:


Wow you guys are having such a great protection for them. When I was traveling with C9, I just put it in a small storage bag and put in it my backpack.


----------



## Nostoi

lumdicks said:


> A bit off-topic here - knowing that you originally wanted to get the Audio-Technica AT-BHA100 but in vain, and bought the Sparkos Aries instead. Just want to share that I have just got the Audio-technica and it is amazing! I enjoy pairing my Hugo 2 to both of the C9 and the Audio-technica so let's audition it if you have chance.


Thanks, this is good to hear. I had the BHA 100 on preorder from Jaben but it was taking a while, so I got the Sparkos instead. Still very interested in hearing it, though I gather it's still only available on import from Asia. Glad to hear it pairs well with the Hugo 2.


----------



## michaelc

lumdicks said:


> Interconnect apart, try not using the the 3V RMS of H2 with C9. Instead, just use H2 as a Pre-amp to C9 with the Pre In mode. As such, the C9 will act as a power amp with maximum output, and you can control the volume via H2. As reminded by @bluestorm1992, please turn your volume of H2 to minimum first to prevent accidentally trigger the pre mode with unbearable high volume, which may be damage to you CAN or your hearing. With this pairing, you can preserve the sound quality of H2 at maximum, and at the same time enjoy the driving power and timbre (tube or SS, Class A or AB) of C9.


Can we use pre-amp mode with a DAP?


----------



## lumdicks

michaelc said:


> Can we use pre-amp mode with a DAP?


yes, but the outcome may vary. To fully utilize this function you should use DAP with real pre- out such as N6ii with A02. I have used both P6 Pro and LPGT Ti with C9 with Pre In with satisfactory result.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

lumdicks said:


> yes, but the outcome may vary. To fully utilize this function you should use DAP with real pre- out such as N6ii with A02. I have used both P6 Pro and LPGT Ti with C9 with Pre In with satisfactory result.


how can you tell the difference between real pre-out and fake pre-out vs. real line out vs. fake line out?    Some times the jacks are the same.


----------



## zen87192

Past (2010) meets the future... Fully operational iPod 5.5 iMod by Red Wine Audio with true Line Out with the Neco Amp playing through an ALO LOD I.C. Those were the days..... 🎧


----------



## CANiSLAYu

If anyone else is eagerly awaiting their C9 from MusicTeck, I got an update from Andrew.  Their shipment from Cayin is scheduled to arrive next Tuesday 4/13, then MusicTeck will begin shipping out from there.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

CANiSLAYu said:


> If anyone else is eagerly awaiting their C9 from MusicTeck, I got an update from Andrew.  Their shipment from Cayin is scheduled to arrive next Tuesday 4/13, then MusicTeck will begin shipping out from there.


Fantastic.   Perfect timing for me.


----------



## fiascogarcia

lumdicks said:


> yes, but the outcome may vary. To fully utilize this function you should use DAP with real pre- out such as N6ii with A02. I have used both P6 Pro and LPGT Ti with C9 with Pre In with satisfactory result.


Just curious, but with the N6ii, which has a true line out, are you finding any advantage using the C9 pre-amp mode versus just going into the C9 line in and using the C9 volume pot?  I was under the impression that the C9 pre-amp mode was more geared for sources that don't have a true line out.  Thanks!


----------



## kwilkins

lumdicks said:


> Interconnect apart, try not using the the 3V RMS of H2 with C9. Instead, just use H2 as a Pre-amp to C9 with the Pre In mode. As such, the C9 will act as a power amp with maximum output, and you can control the volume via H2. As reminded by @bluestorm1992, please turn your volume of H2 to minimum first to prevent accidentally trigger the pre mode with unbearable high volume, which may be damage to you CAN or your hearing. With this pairing, you can preserve the sound quality of H2 at maximum, and at the same time enjoy the driving power and timbre (tube or SS, Class A or AB) of C9.


Thanks so much all.  I appreciate the advice and will give this a shot tonight.  I'm eager to see how the Utopia, Stellia, and Traillii sound with this setup.  

I'm also going to pair the H2 with the Woo WA8 to see how they sound together.


----------



## immortalsoul

kwilkins said:


> Thanks so much all.  I appreciate the advice and will give this a shot tonight.  I'm eager to see how the Utopia, Stellia, and Traillii sound with this setup.
> 
> I'm also going to pair the H2 with the Woo WA8 to see how they sound together.


It would be nice if you can provide a comparison between WA8 and C9. Thank you


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

kwilkins said:


> Thanks so much all.  I appreciate the advice and will give this a shot tonight.  I'm eager to see how the Utopia, Stellia, and Traillii sound with this setup.
> 
> I'm also going to pair the H2 with the Woo WA8 to see how they sound together.


Please let us know how the C9 comparesto the WA8.  I am interested in that device.


----------



## aaf evo

So with the C9 arriving hopefully within the next week or two, should I be looking into interconnects? I use the Traillii 99% of the time which uses a customized version of the PW Audio 1960s 4 wire, would getting a 1960s 4 wire interconnect be the wise thing to do here or does that not really matter? I have been keeping an eye on Eletech’s interconnects also.


----------



## bluestorm1992

aaf evo said:


> So with the C9 arriving hopefully within the next week or two, should I be looking into interconnects? I use the Traillii 99% of the time which uses a customized version of the PW Audio 1960s 4 wire, would getting a 1960s 4 wire interconnect be the wise thing to do here or does that not really matter? I have been keeping an eye on Eletech’s interconnects also.


I would say stick with the stock IC first, although if you do want an upgrade/slightly different sound signature, Eletech's IC is definitely worth considering. I would personally choose their Plato 4.4mm IC as I find it to bring further clarity to the sound and adds a slight touch of sweet to the mids.


----------



## aaf evo

bluestorm1992 said:


> I would say stick with the stock IC first, although if you do want an upgrade/slightly different sound signature, Eletech's IC is definitely worth considering. I would personally choose their Plato 4.4mm IC as I find it to bring further clarity to the sound and adds a slight touch of sweet to the mids.



Okay noted, yay, another rabbit hole to fall into. Lol.


----------



## bluestorm1992

aaf evo said:


> Okay noted, yay, another rabbit hole to fall into. Lol.


Indeed! Fortunately, Eletech’s ICs are priced quite fairly IMO. Their Plato IC is like $229.


----------



## aaf evo

bluestorm1992 said:


> Indeed! Fortunately, Eletech’s ICs are priced quite fairly IMO. Their Plato IC is like $229.



Yeah I was just looking at that, doesn’t seem too crazy. I will wait first and see how I like the C9 and then go from there. Fully expecting to love it, will come more down to how much I use it since I think I prefer just a DAP instead.


----------



## bluestorm1992

aaf evo said:


> Yeah I was just looking at that, doesn’t seem too crazy. I will wait first and see how I like the C9 and then go from there. Fully expecting to love it, will come more down to how much I use it since I think I prefer just a DAP instead.


I think this is ultimately driven by how much of the difference you experience with and without C9 for the IEM you use (Traillii in your case). In my own use case, Sultan is now my favorite and my daily driver, and I find SP2000 alone to be a perfect match with it. Before I get the Sultan, I mostly use MEST. Because the performance difference with and without C9 is so big, I cannot really listen to my MEST for a long period of time before I go back and re-attach C9 to my SP2000.


----------



## aaf evo

bluestorm1992 said:


> I think this is ultimately driven by how much of the difference you experience with and without C9 for the IEM you use (Traillii in your case). In my own use case, Sultan is now my favorite and my daily driver, and I find SP2000 alone to be a perfect match with it. Before I get the Sultan, I mostly use MEST. Because the performance difference with and without C9 is so big, I cannot really listen to my MEST for a long period of time before I go back and re-attach C9 to my SP2000.



For sure, Traillii seems to scale very well but it also sounds fantastic from literally anything I have tried to use as a source. So I guess time will tell, haha.


----------



## Currawong (Apr 9, 2021)

kwilkins said:


> Hi, I am hoping someone can give me advice on paring the Hugo 2 with the C9.  I've had the C9 for a while and love it, I just received the Hugo 2.  Comparing the two (sound quality wise) I find them in the same league as each other, just with different sound signatures.  I was hoping adding the H2 to the C9 would give a nice leap in sound quality but was a bit disappointed in my first listen.
> 
> I've put the H2 in 3v RMS line level mode and connected to the C9 via a cheap RCA to 3.5mm cable.  I had one of these $5 cables and know I should get something better but wanted to give it a try.  I was using Tube A mode to listen to a few songs on the Utopia's, that is the only HP I have tried so far because I was pressed for time.  Things sounded fine but I didn't notice a significant improvement in SQ from just using the C9 or the H2 on their own.
> 
> ...



You don't need to put the Hugo 2 in 3v output mode -- just adjust the volume to whatever level is suitable for the C9. With some devices that don't use a volume control on the input (but after a gain stage) you can overload them sending out 3V and you'll get worse sound quality.

With high-end IEMs and headphones, you'll start to notice differences in interconnects. I tend to say that something better than basic made by one of the cable companies/people here will do the job nicely.



lumdicks said:


> I must stop........... should stay here for a while...............hopefully.



This is why my account image says "Sorry about your wallet" in Latin. 



HiFiHawaii808 said:


> how can you tell the difference between real pre-out and fake pre-out vs. real line out vs. fake line out?    Some times the jacks are the same.



There's no such thing as a "fake pre-out". Line level and normal headphone driving level are pretty close. Line level is 2V SE, and 4V balanced and headphone amps tend to go higher than that. Headphone amps tend to have a low output impedance and both a current and voltage gain stage, whereas the output impedance from a dedicated line out from a stereo hi-fi component would be a great deal higher, at 100 Ohms or more. A line out is simpler as they are only driving a simple load, usually 100 kOhms or so and don't require a high current.  The Chord Hugo 2 is an exception to this as it has a completely different DAC/amp set-up compared to everything else, allowing it to work perfectly for most headphones as well as a line out.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Currawong said:


> You don't need to put the Hugo 2 in 3v output mode -- just adjust the volume to whatever level is suitable for the C9. With some devices that don't use a volume control on the input (but after a gain stage) you can overload them sending out 3V and you'll get worse sound quality.
> 
> With high-end IEMs and headphones, you'll start to notice differences in interconnects. I tend to say that something better than basic made by one of the cable companies/people here will do the job nicely.
> 
> ...


Hi Currawong,

Thanks for your thorough explanations! Any plan to do a C9 review on your channel?


----------



## kwilkins

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Please let us know how the C9 comparesto the WA8.  I am interested in that device.


I was able to spend some time pairing the H2 to the C9 in pre-mode and as suggested it improved things a lot, thanks again for the recommendations.

To my ears adding the C9 to the H2 improves sound quality over just using the H2, somewhat and usually but not always. For some perspective on my background and experience with this hobby please see Post #1,592 of this thread.

I have learned a bit more about describing my impressions on SQ, but just a bit, I’m still a novice and learning. With the C9 added to the H2 in pre-mode using Tube A I hear the C9 advantages as:

Stronger and deeper base
Wider soundstage
Vocals a bit more forward
A bit warmer sound overall

The advantages I hear with just the H2 are:

Crisper and tighter base
More separation and defined layering of instruments
Blacker background – _The C9 has a slight hiss when activating pre-mode_

I tested with Utopia and Traillii

I mostly preferred the sound with the C9 added but with some complex songs the separation and tight-cleanness of the H2 on its own was preferable. As I’m exploring more gear and music I am learning that the type of music/song and quality of recording really influence which gear it sounds better on.

Just after comparing the H2 with and without the C9 I switched over to using the Hugo TT2 with M Scaler (headphones directly into the TT2) and listen to the same songs comparing them with the Headonia 2A3, being fed by the TT2 M Scaler. In this case everything I listened to sounded notably better connected to the Headonia versus straight to the TT2. I didn’t have to listen closely or think about which I preferred, it was clear and obvious. The C9 did not add THAT kind of improvement to the H2, but overall, I did prefer it most of the time.

I didn’t get a chance to use the H2 with the Woo WA8 but will try to over the weekend. I did provide my thoughts on the C9 and the WA8 without the H2 in post #1,592.


----------



## lumdicks (Apr 9, 2021)

kwilkins said:


> I was able to spend some time pairing the H2 to the C9 in pre-mode and as suggested it improved things a lot, thanks again for the recommendations.
> 
> To my ears adding the C9 to the H2 improves sound quality over just using the H2, somewhat and usually but not always. For some perspective on my background and experience with this hobby please see Post #1,592 of this thread.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the impression. You may try to keep apart the H2 and the C9 by a bit (with a longer interconnect of course) and the hiss should be much improved.

For those complex songs, try using SS mode with Class AB of your C9. It may surprise you again.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

kwilkins said:


> I was able to spend some time pairing the H2 to the C9 in pre-mode and as suggested it improved things a lot, thanks again for the recommendations.
> 
> To my ears adding the C9 to the H2 improves sound quality over just using the H2, somewhat and usually but not always. For some perspective on my background and experience with this hobby please see Post #1,592 of this thread.
> 
> ...


Outstanding overview!   Don't underestimate your own hearing.  You did great.    Also, you tested everything I own or want to own.    I love it.


----------



## kwilkins

lumdicks said:


> Thanks for the impression. You may try to keep apart the H2 and the C9 by a bit (with a longer interconnect of course) and the hiss should be much improved.
> 
> For those complex songs, try using SS mode with Class AB of your C9. It may surprise you again.


Thanks for the tips, I'll try both.


----------



## DarginMahkum (Apr 9, 2021)

If anyone is looking for a Cayin A02 board, they have 3 pieces here and they send worldwide:

https://www.myheadfi.com/product/cayin-n6ii-a02-replaceable-audio-motherboard/


----------



## Bax1020

Do i have to adjust the volume on DX300 when using line out with C9? I’m using medium gain and sounds like i’m not getting it loud enough, like i’m at 2 o clock using Fourte


----------



## xand

Bax1020 said:


> Do i have to adjust the volume on DX300 when using line out with C9? I’m using medium gain and sounds like i’m not getting it loud enough, like i’m at 2 o clock using Fourte


DX300 should be set at line out, 100% volume, low gain.

Medium might be okay but not sure what voltage it produces.


----------



## Bax1020

xand said:


> DX300 should be set at line out, 100% volume, low gain.
> 
> Medium might be okay but not sure what voltage it produces.


Thank you, will try that out


----------



## michaelc (Apr 11, 2021)

I still haven't decide on C9 mainly due to the sound of "line-in" mode presentation is "to your face" type, quite similar to the Hugo2 presentation. "Depth" is missing in certain songs (example: studio recording or live concert...my favorite) compare to LPGT Ti.

I have my 3rd C9 audition after I learned about the "pre-in" mode from previous posts. I have spend 2.5 hours, focus with Traillii. My impression after the 3rd audition:
1.) I am comparing both 3.5 & 4.4 connectors this time
2.) I am comparing both "line-in" and "pre-in" mode
3.) My other setting for C9: low gain, tube, class A.
4.) My LPGT Ti settings: LO when I pair with C9 "line-in" mode, H/P out when I pair with "pre-in" mode. I change H/p out to low gain. I can hear noise with high gain.
5.) My focus this round is the "pre-in" mode.
6.) With "pre-in" mode, I can finally hear the LPGT Ti one of the main sound characteristic. The depth 🥰
7.) To my ears, the LPGT Ti 4.4 sound more relax, bigger soundstage left to right but less "focus". 3.5 sound more focus but it has smaller soundstage. These characteristics show in C9 in pre-in mode presentation but both 4.4 and 3.5 connector have identical wide soundstage.
8.) The LPGT Ti sound characteristic is not obvious in both 4.4 and 3.5 connector with "Line-in" mode. Both sound identical to me.

These concluded that the C9 is a very transparent amp. I can still hear the "Lotoo sound" with pre-in mode. On the other hand, it's a fun device too. I can "tune" the sound based on my mood and albums. Pre-in vs line-in vs tube vs ss vs class a vs class ab 😳

Going to order 1 next week


----------



## lumdicks

michaelc said:


> I still haven't decide on C9 mainly due to the sound of "line-in" mode presentation is "to your face" type, quite similar to the Hugo2 presentation. "Depth" is missing in certain songs (example: studio recording or live concert...my favorite) compare to LPGT Ti.
> 
> I have my 3rd C9 audition after I learned about the "pre-in" mode from previous posts. I have spend 2.5 hours, focus with Traillii. My impression after the 3rd audition:
> 1.) I am comparing both 3.5 & 4.4 connectors this time
> ...


congrats!


----------



## Lu88

michaelc said:


> I still haven't decide on C9 mainly due to the sound of "line-in" mode presentation is "to your face" type, quite similar to the Hugo2 presentation. "Depth" is missing in certain songs (example: studio recording or live concert...my favorite) compare to LPGT Ti.
> 
> I have my 3rd C9 audition after I learned about the "pre-in" mode from previous posts. I have spend 2.5 hours, focus with Traillii. My impression after the 3rd audition:
> 1.) I am comparing both 3.5 & 4.4 connectors this time
> ...


You have one more option to try.
LPGT-Ti: LO with "Unfixed" volume & C9: pre-in mode.

This is my favorite settings.


----------



## michaelc

Lu88 said:


> You have one more option to try.
> LPGT-Ti: LO with "Unfixed" volume & C9: pre-in mode.
> 
> This is my favorite settings.


What is "unfixed" volume?


----------



## xand (Apr 10, 2021)

Deleted [I was wrong].


----------



## Lu88

michaelc said:


> What is "unfixed" volume?


It's a variable volume mode for LO.  You can adjust LO volume on LPGT-Ti.

First, select "Line out" under Settings>Output setting>Output type on LPGT-Ti,
then you will see Settings>Output setting>Line out, and select "Unfixed."


----------



## Kiats

The C9 arrived at last yesterday evening. Was trying it out with the Final A8000 and the FitEar DC. The A8000 is given a much fuller and richer sonics. Though I will have to say that it is much easier to drive that the FitEar DC which I had on LO high from the M15 and high output on the C9 on balanced. Not being used to it, I simply unplugged the FitEar DC and plugged in the A8000 without any changes and almost blew out my ears.  

Will try out the Focal Utopia today for which I have the same Tianwaitian cable from CEMA on AliExpress which is an alloy cable of copper, silver, palladium and gold.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Kiats said:


> The C9 arrived at last yesterday evening. Was trying it out with the Final A8000 and the FitEar DC. The A8000 is given a much fuller and richer sonics. Though I will have to say that it is much easier to drive that the FitEar DC which I had on LO high from the M15 and high output on the C9 on balanced. Not being used to it, I simply unplugged the FitEar DC and plugged in the A8000 without any changes and almost blew out my ears.
> 
> Will try out the Focal Utopia today for which I have the same Tianwaitian cable from CEMA on AliExpress which is an alloy cable of copper, silver, palladium and gold.


Congrats! Glad that you finally get back your new toy and in a good working shape. 

Also just for the record, when paired with IEMs I almost always leave my C9 in low gain. I find this to be sufficient for all the IEMs I am using and helps to remove some background noise.


----------



## Kiats

At the same time, I will be trying out the Phatlab Chimera which sounds promising as well. Choice of SS and tube output. And with high/low gain. Much lighter than the C9. Only difference is it only has SE input and lacks a pre-amp function. But half the price of the C9. So it may work for some people.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Kiats said:


> At the same time, I will be trying out the Phatlab Chimera which sounds promising as well. Choice of SS and tube output. And with high/low gain. Much lighter than the C9. Only difference is it only has SE input and lacks a pre-amp function. But half the price of the C9. So it may work for some people.


Wait I just realized: Did you stay up all night to play with C9?


----------



## Kiats

bluestorm1992 said:


> Congrats! Glad that you finally get back your new toy and in a good working shape.
> 
> Also just for the record, when paired with IEMs I almost always leave my C9 in low gain. I find this to be sufficient for all the IEMs I am using and helps to remove some background noise.


Heheh! Something to remember. 🙏 Though to be fair, the FitEar DC did benefit from the added power. 😆


----------



## Kiats

bluestorm1992 said:


> Wait I just realized: Did you stay up all night to play with C9?


Heheh! Not at all. I received around 8/9 pm. And was experimenting until about 1am. Woke early cos the shingles I'm labouring under made it uncomfortable to sleep too long. So woke up at 6ish this morning. Thank goodness for the C9 and Chimera to keep me company.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Kiats said:


> Heheh! Not at all. I received around 8/9 pm. And was experimenting until about 1am. Woke early cos the shingles I'm labouring under made it uncomfortable to sleep too long. So woke up at 6ish this morning. Thank goodness for the C9 and Chimera to keep me company.


If you use WeChat, PM me and I will add you to the C9 user group.  We have a lot of fun talking about Hifi stuff and all other things there.

Also, anyone else interested please let me know.


----------



## aaf evo

bluestorm1992 said:


> If you use WeChat, PM me and I will add you to the C9 user group.  We have a lot of fun talking about Hifi stuff and all other things there.
> 
> Also, anyone else interested please let me know.



Me please!!


----------



## bluestorm1992

aaf evo said:


> Me please!!


PM you!


----------



## bigbeans

bluestorm1992 said:


> If you use WeChat, PM me and I will add you to the C9 user group.  We have a lot of fun talking about Hifi stuff and all other things there.
> 
> Also, anyone else interested please let me know.


Me too!


----------



## bluestorm1992

bigbeans said:


> Me too!


PM you! All text in Chinese tough... It is a greater China user group.


----------



## Kiats

bluestorm1992 said:


> If you use WeChat, PM me and I will add you to the C9 user group.  We have a lot of fun talking about Hifi stuff and all other things there.
> 
> Also, anyone else interested please let me know.


Done! Sent you my handle and QR Code.  Look forward to it!


----------



## bluestorm1992

Kiats said:


> Done! Sent you my handle and QR Code.  Look forward to it!


PM you!


----------



## michaelc

bluestorm1992 said:


> If you use WeChat, PM me and I will add you to the C9 user group.  We have a lot of fun talking about Hifi stuff and all other things there.
> 
> Also, anyone else interested please let me know.


PM me pls


----------



## Kiats

bluestorm1992 said:


> PM you! All text in Chinese tough... It is a greater China user group.


Heheh! I used to have to use DingTalk for work... The consolation was that I loved the now demised Xiami. I was one sad man when it was shut down...


----------



## Jeffyue

bluestorm1992 said:


> If you use WeChat, PM me and I will add you to the C9 user group.  We have a lot of fun talking about Hifi stuff and all other things there.
> 
> Also, anyone else interested please let me know.


Pm please! Tks tks


----------



## Hanyong

bluestorm1992 said:


> 如果您使用微信，请PM我和我将您添加到C9用户组。 关于Hifi内容以及那里的所有其他内容，我们很有趣。
> 
> 另外，其他感兴趣的人也请告诉我。


我可以参加吗？我昨天刚买了C9


----------



## jmills8

Hanyong said:


> 我可以参加吗？我昨天刚买了C9


The times are changing.


----------



## lucasratmundo

bigbeans said:


> How many of you guys put your DAPs on top of the C9 (tube window) like @twister6 ? Won't that overheat your players?
> 
> R8 is already quite warm (almost hot) attached on the undercarriage in Class AB transistor, balanced.



I put small rubber feet on top of the C9 so that I can safely stack my SP2000 on top of it.


----------



## Kiats

lucasratmundo said:


> I put small rubber feet on top of the C9 so that I can safely stack my SP2000 on top of it.


Actually, for the past day or so, I’ve just stacked the DAP on the C9. Though the C9 is in its official case. The supplied IC is too short to have the DAP and C9 alongside each other in most cases.


----------



## zen87192

Nice one lucasratmundo! I had the same idea which works well.


----------



## zen87192

bluestorm1992 said:


> If you use WeChat, PM me and I will add you to the C9 user group.  We have a lot of fun talking about Hifi stuff and all other things there.
> 
> Also, anyone else interested please let me know.


May I join in please? Thank you!


----------



## lucasratmundo

zen87192 said:


> Nice one lucasratmundo! I had the same idea which works well.


Excellent!


----------



## lucasratmundo

Tried TT2+M-Scaler with the C9 in line-in vs pre-in mode today and I actually prefer line-in. In pre-in, bass gets a bit too bloomy for me. Z1R with Tube and Class A from TT2 line-in is _great_.


----------



## xand

Kiats said:


> The supplied IC is too short to have the DAP and C9 alongside each other in most cases.



I agree. Can get an ic made.. Mine is 60cm.


----------



## hybridnut

bluestorm1992 said:


> If you use WeChat, PM me and I will add you to the C9 user group.  We have a lot of fun talking about Hifi stuff and all other things there.
> 
> Also, anyone else interested please let me know.


Me please


----------



## hybridnut

Bird with P6p + C9 
Like a headphone sound 😆


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

lucasratmundo said:


> Tried TT2+M-Scaler with the C9 in line-in vs pre-in mode today and I actually prefer line-in. In pre-in, bass gets a bit too bloomy for me. Z1R with Tube and Class A from TT2 line-in is _great_.


This is the combination I want to hear mainly for the tube sound.    If we are just talking solid state and not tube timbre, how does the TT2 + M scaler sound vs. being paired with the C9?    I am wondering how the Amp in the TT2 compares to the C9.     I hear that the TT2 actually benefits from the pairing with a separate transparent amp like the THX AAA 789.

Most IEMs are too low impedance to pair with a full sized tube amp even with transformer on the output.  The Z1R is the exception to that rule.   I want to try it on a ZMF Pendant since it has an output impedance option for 10 ohms which should be perfect for the 40 ohm Z1R.


----------



## lucasratmundo

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> This is the combination I want to hear mainly for the tube sound. If we are just talking solid state and not tube timbre, how does the TT2 + M scaler sound vs. being paired with the C9?


My early impression is that the TT2 + MScaler sound as a DAC is a great source for the C9. The synergy with the TT2 amp will really depend on the headphone. For example, the TT2 amp is definitely my favourite pairing for the Clear i.e. the transparency and bass depth is breathtaking in my experience. However, pairing the TT2 amp with the Diana v2 and Arya has been good but not great. I prefer them on the C9.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Apr 11, 2021)

lucasratmundo said:


> My early impression is that the TT2 + MScaler sound as a DAC is a great source for the C9. The synergy with the TT2 amp will really depend on the headphone. For example, the TT2 amp is definitely my favourite pairing for the Clear i.e. the transparency and bass depth is breathtaking in my experience. However, pairing the TT2 amp with the Diana v2 and Arya has been good but not great. I prefer them on the C9.


That's great insight.   Thank you.    I got to demo the TT2 + Mscaler 2 weeks ago and I loved it.   I almost bought one, but I decided to wait a while to stay focused on my current mission of IEM bliss.     I got to hear the Focal Clear OG and Clear MG with this set up and it was fantastic.   I don't think I've ever heard anything with as good a punch and slam as that combination.   I prefer the OG to the MG Clear so I bought one as part of the Headphones.com close out.    It also did wonders for my EE Odin and Sony IER-Z1Rs.     It did not sound good at all with my ZMF Verite Closed which pairs better with tube amps.


----------



## xand

@twister6 

What do you think of adding a C9 to amp a MEST2?

Bonus question, my good friend @justanut might be persuaded to acquire an Odin - his main IEM now is a MEST2. What do you think of the MEST2 vs Odin?


----------



## twister6

xand said:


> @twister6
> 
> What do you think of adding a C9 to amp a MEST2?
> 
> Bonus question, my good friend @justanut might be persuaded to acquire an Odin - his main IEM now is a MEST2. What do you think of the MEST2 vs Odin?



C9 and Mest MKII?  As long as you can tolerate _hissing_ in this particular pair up (low gain, tube, AB), it stretches MKII soundstage width to its limit and adds more texture to the sound.

Mest MKII and Odin have a different sound sig/tuning and different technical performance.  MKII is mildly U-shaped with more emphasis on bass and lower treble while Odin's sig is more mid-forward due to its bass being relatively neutral in quantity.  Technically, Odin will have wider soundstage, better separation of sounds, and more expanded dynamics, and it also cost 2x as much   But together, their tuning complements each other without overlapping.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Just a heads up: C9 is finally back-in-stock at Musicteck.

They also have N6ii (with A02 installed), and the leather case for C9 in stock now.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> Just a heads up: C9 is finally back-in-stock at Musicteck.
> 
> They also have N6ii (with A02 installed), and the leather case for C9 in stock now.


Yep.  I saw that.   Means my C9 will be shipping this week.  Woo hoo!


----------



## aaf evo

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Yep.  I saw that.   Means my C9 will be shipping this week.  Woo hoo!



They should be shipping today


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

xand said:


> @twister6
> 
> What do you think of adding a C9 to amp a MEST2?
> 
> Bonus question, my good friend @justanut might be persuaded to acquire an Odin - his main IEM now is a MEST2. What do you think of the MEST2 vs Odin?


It bears repeating.   Resistance is futile.


----------



## bigbeans

I'm happy other folks will be able to experience C9 as well. We can share our experiences!


----------



## Kiats

Today I was listening to the C9 and a strange thing happened: the left side suddenly started clicking and there was no music out of it. Just to give full context: I was using a 2.5mm into 4.4mm adapter. No issues for 4.4mm plugs. I switched off the C9 and all seemed fine again. Wonder if it is the adapter that is not giving full contact between the 2.5mm plug and the adaptor. Puzzling. Any thoughts or experiences would be appreciated. 🙏


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 13, 2021)

Kiats said:


> Today I was listening to the C9 and a strange thing happened: the left side suddenly started clicking and there was no music out of it. Just to give full context: I was using a 2.5mm into 4.4mm adapter. No issues for 4.4mm plugs. I switched off the C9 and all seemed fine again. Wonder if it is the adapter that is not giving full contact between the 2.5mm plug and the adaptor. Puzzling. Any thoughts or experiences would be appreciated. 🙏


That happened to me before too, and it turned out to be an adapter issue. In my case, I did not insert the adapter deep enough into C9 for proper contact. It may also be worth checking the contact between the adapter and your IEM/headphone as well.

Edit: If you are using the DDHifi adapter then most likely it is it. Its 4.4 is a bit hard to insert so I occasionally end up leaving a part of it un-inserted into C9.


----------



## bluestorm1992

I also ordered the Dunu EST 112 (and the leather case for C9 of course..). Fellows in the C9 user group said it is a great pairing for C9. Glad to see that Dunu is able to make a hybrid IEM at such an affordable price.


----------



## Kiats

bluestorm1992 said:


> That happened to me before too, and it turned out to be an adapter issue. In my case, I did not insert the adapter deep enough into C9 for proper contact. It may also be worth checking the contact between the adapter and your IEM/headphone as well.
> 
> Edit: If you are using the DDHifi adapter then most likely it is it. Its 4.4 is a bit hard to insert so I occasionally end up leaving a part of it un-inserted into C9.



Ah.... It was indeed the DDHifi adapter. Thanks @bluestorm1992 ! You can imagine my heart almost failed considering that the last C9 also had one channel failing on me. I ordered a Cayin right angle adapter from Taobao and just arrived today. Let’s see if that one works better or at least more consistently. Thanks for giving me peace of mind.


----------



## Kiats

bluestorm1992 said:


> I also ordered the Dunu EST 112 (and the leather case for C9 of course..). Fellows in the C9 user group said it is a great pairing for C9. Glad to see that Dunu is able to make a hybrid IEM at such an affordable price.



Will go have a look. You ordered from the Dunu flagship store on Taobao?


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 13, 2021)

Kiats said:


> Ah.... It was indeed the DDHifi adapter. Thanks @bluestorm1992 ! You can imagine my heart almost failed considering that the last C9 also had one channel failing on me. I ordered a Cayin right angle adapter from Taobao and just arrived today. Let’s see if that one works better or at least more consistently. Thanks for giving me peace of mind.


You are welcome! Why don’t you get an adapter from Eric as well. 



Kiats said:


> Will go have a look. You ordered from the Dunu flagship store on Taobao?


I got it from Musicteck here.   Are there Dunu authorized dealers in SG?

Edit: I saw that you have Cayin N8. As I recall, there is a 2.5 to 4.4 adapter included in the box. Not 100% sure but worth checking.


----------



## Kiats

bluestorm1992 said:


> You are welcome! Why don’t you get an adapter from Eric as well.
> 
> 
> I got it from Musicteck here.   Are there Dunu authorized dealer in SG?



I don’t think Eric does adapters currently. Though he will start doing pig tail ones, I recall. Good idea. 

I suspect there is in Singapore. Though most times we just order directly from Taobao. Like I did for the C9 case cos the AD in Singapore didn’t have an ETA at that stage.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 13, 2021)

Kiats said:


> I don’t think Eric does adapters currently. Though he will start doing pig tail ones, I recall. Good idea.
> 
> I suspect there is in Singapore. Though most times we just order directly from Taobao. Like I did for the C9 case cos the AD in Singapore didn’t have an ETA at that stage.


They literally just launched their pigtail adapters haha (last week). Worth checking with him.





I saw that you have Cayin N8. As I recall, there is a 2.5 to 4.4 adapter included in the box. Not 100% sure but worth checking.


----------



## xand

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> It bears repeating.   Resistance is futile.


----------



## bluestorm1992

xand said:


>


Congrats! Does it have good synergy with C9 from your angle?


----------



## xand

bluestorm1992 said:


> Congrats! Does it have good synergy with C9 from your angle?


No no I just took a photo.. Resist! 

😬


----------



## Kiats

bluestorm1992 said:


> They literally just launched their pigtail adapters haha (last week). Worth checking with him.
> 
> 
> I saw that you have Cayin N8. As I recall, there is a 2.5 to 4.4 adapter included in the box. Not 100% sure but worth checking.



Indeed... Will go hunt that down. I picked it up when I was recovering from double eye surgery. As you can imagine, everything from that period was a bit hazy. Heheh!


----------



## fiascogarcia

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Yep.  I saw that.   Means my C9 will be shipping this week.  Woo hoo!


Mine too!  Getting excited now!


----------



## zen87192

Great to hear there will be many more C9 owners shortly. Really looking forward to reading your thoughts and ideas and exchanging views with you all. This is a great hobby! Loving it!


----------



## DaYooper

"Your order is on the way"


----------



## Whitigir

zen87192 said:


> Great to hear there will be many more C9 owners shortly. Really looking forward to reading your thoughts and ideas and exchanging views with you all. This is a great hobby! Loving it!


Nice Interconnect with Furutech there.  Be careful with the Furutech though, while it offers excellent performances, the plating is easily stripped or damaged if plug/unplug too many times without care.  
When plug/unplug, make sure you do it slowly and no side to side forces, keep pulling it out straight and slow, so it minimize the forces upon the contacts and prolong the IC


----------



## zen87192

Whitigir said:


> Nice Interconnect with Furutech there.  Be careful with the Furutech though, while it offers excellent performances, the plating is easily stripped or damaged if plug/unplug too many times without care.
> When plug/unplug, make sure you do it slowly and no side to side forces, keep pulling it out straight and slow, so it minimize the forces upon the contacts and prolong the IC


Will do. Thanks for the info. It was the very first interconnect I bought even before I bought the C9. Used it with my mobile phone via a USB C Pigtail adaptor into my Tube Amp. Now goes in to the C9 and is great. I'm very careful once unplugging and tend to 'squeeze' it out of the socket.


----------



## Whitigir

zen87192 said:


> Will do. Thanks for the info. It was the very first interconnect I bought even before I bought the C9. Used it with my mobile phone via a USB C Pigtail adaptor into my Tube Amp. Now goes in to the C9 and is great. I'm very careful once unplugging and tend to '*squeeze*' it out of the socket.


That is what I do ! Squeeze it carefully and slowly.  I am thinking about the Oils that Furutech offers as well.  Apparently, all the efforts are better than resoldering both Furutech lol


----------



## kwilkins

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Please let us know how the C9 comparesto the WA8.  I am interested in that device.


This weekend I spent a fair amount of time comparing the Hugo 2 paired with the C9 and with the Woo WA8.  Both combinations sound fantastic, for most songs I did prefer the H2 and WA8 over the H2 and C9.  To my ears that WA8 has a stronger base, better separation and a warmer sound.  I think the WA8 is more "tubey" sounding and works particularly well on songs with a lot of treble that the H2 on it's own is too bright for me.  The C9 in tube mode also tames songs like that but not as much as the WA8.

As I mentioned before the C9 is a lot more versatile than the WA8, the battery lasts a lot longer, the C9 doesn't get nearly as hot as the WA8 and the C9 is much more portable.  When it comes just to sound quality and the warm tube sound the WA8 sounds better to me.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

kwilkins said:


> This weekend I spent a fair amount of time comparing the Hugo 2 paired with the C9 and with the Woo WA8.  Both combinations sound fantastic, for most songs I did prefer the H2 and WA8 over the H2 and C9.  To my ears that WA8 has a stronger base, better separation and a warmer sound.  I think the WA8 is more "tubey" sounding and works particularly well on songs with a lot of treble that the H2 on it's own is too bright for me.  The C9 in tube mode also tames songs like that but not as much as the WA8.
> 
> As I mentioned before the C9 is a lot more versatile than the WA8, the battery lasts a lot longer, the C9 doesn't get nearly as hot as the WA8 and the C9 is much more portable.  When it comes just to sound quality and the warm tube sound the WA8 sounds better to me.


That's it.  I'm convinced.   I am buying one.


----------



## aaf evo

Will have my C9 and leather case tomorrow, can’t wait! It’s been a long wait hahah.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

aaf evo said:


> Will have my C9 and leather case tomorrow, can’t wait! It’s been a long wait hahah.


Looking forward to your impressions.    I wouldn't be surprised if it had tremendously positive impact on sound quality.


----------



## aaf evo

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Looking forward to your impressions.    I wouldn't be surprised if it had tremendously positive impact on sound quality.



Let’s hope so! This thing wasn’t cheap. XD


----------



## kwilkins

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> That's it.  I'm convinced.   I am buying one.


I'd be interested to hear your thoughts after you receive the WA8.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

kwilkins said:


> I'd be interested to hear your thoughts after you receive the WA8.


Not sure when I will get it, but I'll post my impressions when I do.    I am a huge tube amp fan.   I own a Bottlehead crack and cut my teeth with tubes with that amp.    I spent more money on tubes than on the amp itself.    My goals are to get tube amp timbre with the C9 for my IEMs.   It's usually not practical to drive IEMs with a full sized tube amp because the output impedances tend to be way too high.  So, you need a hybrid option for that.  But, for full sized headphones tubes amps are great, especially with high impedance cans like the ZMF and Sennheiser.    The WA8 has a transformer on the output, so it can drive lower impedance headphones like The Focal Clears which I recently bought.


----------



## immortalsoul

Hi guys,  I was really excited and interested in purchasing the Cayin C9 because of all the features that it comes with and the easy replaceable battery. I have the Woo Audio WA8 and today I had the chance to try the Cayin C9 and compare it with the WA8. Suffice to say that I am glad that I had the chance to try before buying it,  I almost did it but I am happy that I was patient and they didn't have it in stock because I am relieved now that I don't have to buy it. I like the sound of WA8 more, plus I have the Cayin n8. The sound of WA8 is grander than C9 and the bass goes deeper and the soundstage and instrument separation is better on WA8 even though it is a bit warmer than Cayin C9 in tube and class A mode. Both amps are transportable,  not portable with C9 having an advantage here because it is lighter. I hope this helps for those of you that are not yet decided what amp to buy. Cayin C9 is a great product but I just like the WA8 more,  plus I bought the upgrade tube for it and that enhances the sound even more


----------



## bigbeans

Nice to see fellow Woo Amp owners!! I have a WA7 TP which I also upgraded last year to new motherboard and new sets of tubes. I think the WA7TP (and by extension WA8) the perfect companion to C9. C9 I've noticed is a tad more energetic, closer to natural. WA7 is more warm, enveloping and pleasurable.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 13, 2021)

immortalsoul said:


> Hi guys,  I was really excited and interested in purchasing the Cayin C9 because of all the features that it comes with and the easy replaceable battery. I have the Woo Audio WA8 and today I had the chance to try the Cayin C9 and compare it with the WA8. Suffice to say that I am glad that I had the chance to try before buying it,  I almost did it but I am happy that I was patient and they didn't have it in stock because I am relieved now that I don't have to buy it. I like the sound of WA8 more, plus I have the Cayin n8. The sound of WA8 is grander than C9 and the bass goes deeper and the soundstage and instrument separation is better on WA8 even though it is a bit warmer than Cayin C9 in tube and class A mode. Both amps are transportable,  not portable with C9 having an advantage here because it is lighter. I hope this helps for those of you that are not yet decided what amp to buy. Cayin C9 is a great product but I just like the WA8 more,  plus I bought the upgrade tube for it and that enhances the sound even more


Thanks for the comparison. The WA8 and C9 comparison sort of reminds me of my debate between Broadway and C9. I was intended to keep the Broadway to drive my Diana V2. The Broadway is also transportable and it never gets hot. It also drives V2 better than C9.

However, after keeping them simultaneous for a while, I found myself rarely use the Broadway anymore. I think this is mainly due to my listening habits. I like to switch between IEM and headphone listening. While C9 can drive both beautifully, my Broadway was not a good fit for IEMs at all. And, after all, C9’s size and weight are also better than the Broadway. So I ended up selling the Broadway.

In the purchase of audio gears, I have found myself repeatedly end up preferring usability and versatility over pure SQ. I love the sound from P6 Pro, but SP2000’s versatility makes me rely on it. I can also see myself in the future to pursue the DAPs with even better usability, such as DX300 or Hiby R8.


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 13, 2021)

immortalsoul said:


> Hi guys,  I was really excited and interested in purchasing the Cayin C9 because of all the features that it comes with and the easy replaceable battery. I have the Woo Audio WA8 and today I had the chance to try the Cayin C9 and compare it with the WA8. Suffice to say that I am glad that I had the chance to try before buying it,  I almost did it but I am happy that I was patient and they didn't have it in stock because I am relieved now that I don't have to buy it. I like the sound of WA8 more, plus I have the Cayin n8. The sound of WA8 is grander than C9 and the bass goes deeper and the soundstage and instrument separation is better on WA8 even though it is a bit warmer than Cayin C9 in tube and class A mode. Both amps are transportable,  not portable with C9 having an advantage here because it is lighter. I hope this helps for those of you that are not yet decided what amp to buy. Cayin C9 is a great product but I just like the WA8 more,  plus I bought the upgrade tube for it and that enhances the sound even more


That is surprising and yet not surprising as audio performances are subjective.  The C9 is technically better than the WA8 in it engineering, especially the Dual Rails of independent +/-8.4 Volt directly.  Also it was built for Amplification alone and nothing that tapped away from multiple LDO regulators to feed other stuff like DAC , buffers and so on 

Anyways, I am glad I purchased the C9 for sure


----------



## immortalsoul

Whitigir said:


> That is surprising and yet not surprising as audio performances are subjective.  The C9 is technically better than the WA8 in it engineering, especially the Dual Rails of independent +/-8.4 Volt directly.  Also it was built for Amplification alone and nothing that tapped away from multiple LDO regulators to feed other stuff like DAC , buffers and so on
> 
> Anyways, I am glad I purchased the C9 for sure


I was hopping the new technology to sound better but unfortunately it wasn't the case for me. Also WA8 uses real tubes and you can upgrade the tubes to enchance the sound even more. Anyway, the Cayin C9 is a great amp in its own rights and you guys should be happy with your purchase, for me I am happy that I had the chance to try it without buy it


----------



## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> That is surprising and yet not surprising as audio performances are subjective.  The C9 is technically better than the WA8 in it engineering, especially the Dual Rails of independent +/-8.4 Volt directly.  Also it was built for Amplification alone and nothing that tapped away from multiple LDO regulators to feed other stuff like DAC , buffers and so on
> 
> Anyways, I am glad I purchased the C9 for sure


You remember the early days where @Andykong tried to talk you out of buying C9 and go for desktop gears instead?  

I have no doubt that Amps like HA-6A or even just the bottleneck crack with upgraded tubes will sound better than C9, but I would happily trade that SQ difference for the enormous versatility brought by C9.


----------



## bigbeans

C9 as my desktop rig with WA7. Anyone else put a premium on desk space?


----------



## immortalsoul

bluestorm1992 said:


> You remember the early days where @Andykong tried to talk you out of buying C9 and go for desktop gears instead?
> 
> I have no doubt that Amps like HA-6A or even just the bottleneck crack with upgraded tubes will sound better than C9, but I would happily trade that SQ difference for the enormous versatility brought by C9.


The difference here is that WA8 is as transportable/ portable and almost as versatile as Cayin C9 because WA8 has the option to change the sound by switching between two and three tubes,  the only thing missing is solid state but it also have a Dac. In the case of HA-6A that amp is not transportable by any means


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 13, 2021)

immortalsoul said:


> The difference here is that WA8 is as transportable/ portable and almost as versatile as Cayin C9 because WA8 has the option to change the sound by switching between two and three tubes,  the only thing missing is solid state but it also have a Dac. In the case of HA-6A that amp is not transportable by any means


Have you tried that with IEMs? Wonder how that works.

Edit: Also I don’t think I can use WA8 on-the-go due to its size and heat. A few weeks ago I took C9 and the DAP with me in a long distance flight and was able to enjoy them on the way. Put them right into my backpack.


----------



## immortalsoul

I am iem guy.  Most of my listening is with iems.  I should have mentioned that I tried both amps with Jh audio Roxanne,  Lola and Layla. The WA8 is really good with iems,  black background and no his


----------



## xand (Apr 13, 2021)

Hurhur this is the C9 being "portable"... (Used it for about 40 minutes - it ended up warm but not hot, solid state and AB).








immortalsoul said:


> I am iem guy.  Most of my listening is with iems.  I should have mentioned that I tried both amps with Jh audio Roxanne,  Lola and Layla. The WA8 is really good with iems,  black background and no his


You were using C9 3.5mm rather than 4.4mm I guess?


----------



## Whitigir

immortalsoul said:


> I am iem guy.  Most of my listening is with iems.  I should have mentioned that I tried both amps with Jh audio Roxanne,  Lola and Layla. The WA8 is really good with iems,  black background and no his


Hiss is easily solved with IFI dongle


----------



## immortalsoul

xand said:


> Hurhur this is the C9 being "portable"... (Used it for about 40 minutes - it ended up warm but not hot, solid state and AB).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was using both the 3.5 and 4.4. Unfortunately the WA8 is only 3.5, but for me the most important thing is the sound and not if is balanced or not. Bear in mind that I have the Cayin n8 and I was curious how much difference is when you go balanced with the Korg tubes. I like the sound of C9 but it is not that different from the N8 and for me the WA8 add more tube goodness to the sound plus you can upgrade the tubes. I only have an upgrade tube but I noticed that on Woo website they have more options now. The sound of C9 is more in line with the sound of WA8 when you choose two tubes,  unfortunately in that case the WA8 is doesn't have the driving power of C9 but for less demanding headphones is great if you like more neutral sound


----------



## immortalsoul

Whitigir said:


> Hiss is easily solved with IFI dongle


I have the ifi iematch and is a good but not great device.  Indeed you don't have the hiss problem anymore but you lose some dynamics in the sound,  it alters the sound a bit, luckily for me I sold the Andromeda and other hiss monsters


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 13, 2021)

immortalsoul said:


> I was using both the 3.5 and 4.4. Unfortunately the WA8 is only 3.5, but for me the most important thing is the sound and not if is balanced or not. Bear in mind that I have the Cayin n8 and I was curious how much difference is when you go balanced with the Korg tubes. I like the sound of C9 but it is not that different from the N8 and for me the WA8 add more tube goodness to the sound plus you can upgrade the tubes. I only have an upgrade tube but I noticed that on Woo website they have more options now. The sound of C9 is more in line with the sound of WA8 when you choose two tubes,  unfortunately in that case the WA8 is doesn't have the driving power of C9 but for less demanding headphones is great if you like more neutral sound


Thanks for sharing. I may end up getting a WA8 as well to try this out. My worry is that it is a 2016 product and is due for an upgrade. Don’t want to buy it at its retail price now. Otherwise it seems like a strong product too.

Also, for some IEMs I end up preferring the SS mode of C9. Does WA8 have that mode or just pure tube?


----------



## immortalsoul

I was very fortunate to get the WA8 in a trade and I am really happy with it,  I still miss the headphones that I traded for it but it is one of the best things I tried in this hobby. For example I am a dap lover and I tried many daps and I was really disappointed with many and to my ears Calyx m and Acoustic research ar-m2, both released in 2015 sound better than Shanling M8, Fiio m15 and even Cayin n8. I already sold the Fiio M15 and Shanling M8, I will keep the Cayin n8 for the tubes, I ended up realizing that the technology advances are not always related with better sound,  better user experience yes, but not better sound.


----------



## Whitigir

immortalsoul said:


> The difference here is that WA8 is as transportable/ portable and almost as versatile as Cayin C9 because WA8 has the option to change the sound by switching between two and three tubes,  the only thing missing is solid state but it also have a Dac. In the case of HA-6A that amp is not transportable by any means


I agree , Sound is subjective, and as you said, from the engineering points of views, better specifications and technicalities do not equal better sounds.  The case in point is that Tubes distortions and it efficiency is ways worse than a transistors, yet.....tubes gears are wonderful to listen to.  The same as Analog systems vs Digital system...etc... 


immortalsoul said:


> I was very fortunate to get the WA8 in a trade and I am really happy with it,  I still miss the headphones that I traded for it but it is one of the best things I tried in this hobby. For example I am a dap lover and I tried many daps and I was really disappointed with many and to my ears Calyx m and Acoustic research ar-m2, both released in 2015 sound better than Shanling M8, Fiio m15 and even Cayin n8. I already sold the Fiio M15 and Shanling M8, I will keep the Cayin n8 for the tubes, I ended up realizing that the technology advances are not always related with better sound,  better user experience yes, but not better sound.


----------



## xand (Apr 13, 2021)

immortalsoul said:


> I was using both the 3.5 and 4.4. Unfortunately the WA8 is only 3.5, but for me the most important thing is the sound and not if is balanced or not. Bear in mind that I have the Cayin n8 and I was curious how much difference is when you go balanced with the Korg tubes. I like the sound of C9 but it is not that different from the N8 and for me the WA8 add more tube goodness to the sound plus you can upgrade the tubes. I only have an upgrade tube but I noticed that on Woo website they have more options now. The sound of C9 is more in line with the sound of WA8 when you choose two tubes,  unfortunately in that case the WA8 is doesn't have the driving power of C9 but for less demanding headphones is great if you like more neutral sound



Oh great.

The C9 is significantly better balanced (based on my zeus XR and two identical cables - one terminated with an oxyaide right angle 3.5 and the second with some unknown 4.4), enough so that I prefer 4.4 even though it hisses more than 3.5.

I did survey the market before I bought the C9 - I dismissed the WA8 without even bothering to demo because it was old, single ended, I hated the WA5 demo some years ago (which was very sad as I really wanted to like it), and I was buying for utopia.

Maybe I should have demoed! If you're reading this you should probably demo if you can, especially if you're looking to power iems.

@bluestorm1992 the WA8 is pure tube, single ended only (6.35 and 3.5), with claimed power of 250mW @32Ω/120mW@300Ω. It's  1.1 kg, and has a built in ESS 9018 DAC.


----------



## RTodd

Whitigir said:


> I agree , Sound is subjective, and as you said, from the engineering points of views, better specifications and technicalities do not equal better sounds.  The case in point is that Tubes distortions and it efficiency is ways worse than a transistors, yet.....tubes gears are wonderful to listen to.  The same as Analog systems vs Digital system...etc...


Can’t help but think about digital photography has now surpassed the resolution capable from film negative emulsions. Is digital better well it depends on what you like to look at. Is digital easier to use. Think there is a parallel here.


----------



## immortalsoul (Apr 13, 2021)

xand said:


> Oh great.
> 
> The C9 is significantly better balanced (based on my zeus XR and two identical cables - one terminated with an oxyaide right angle 3.5 and the second with some unknown 4.4), enough so that I prefer 4.4 even though in a very quiet room it hisses a little.
> 
> ...


I was about to buy the Cayin C9 without listening to it,  luckily it wasn't in stock. I am glad that I had the chance to try it before buying because I realized that I already had what I need but in this hobby it is always the chase for the next new hopefuly better thing


----------



## xand (Apr 13, 2021)

immortalsoul said:


> I was about to buy the Cayin C9 without listening to it,  luckily it wasn't in stock. I am glad that I had the chance to try it before buying because I realized that I already had what I need but in this hobby it is always the chase.



Oh i don't really recommend buying anything in the totl price range without a demo.

Given what you have though, maybe what you should try are some new IEMs. 

Empire Ears Odín has just been released in custom form.. 😁

There's also a new hybrid Jolene from JH Audio which have what looks like a really awesome build: https://headfonics.com/jh-audio-jolene-review/


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 13, 2021)

xand said:


> Oh great.
> 
> The C9 is significantly better balanced (based on my zeus XR and two identical cables - one terminated with an oxyaide right angle 3.5 and the second with some unknown 4.4), enough so that I prefer 4.4 even though it hisses more than 3.5.
> 
> ...


I briefly compared C9 3.5 vs. 4.4 with my MEST MKii. My MEST is terminated at 2.5mm and I was able to use two DDHifi adapters to try it with the 3.5 and 4.4 outputs from C9. Same volume and same songs.

Long story short, the 4.4 output from C9 is indeed significantly better. The sound from 3.5mm is softer and lacking the impact from music. If I dial up the volume when using 3.5mm, it can achieve a similar level of impact but the music comes out as a bit too in my face and still lacking the details.

Edit: @immortalsoul perhaps take a shot and try the 4.4 out from C9? The difference is really noticeable to me.


----------



## immortalsoul

xand said:


> Oh i don't really recommend buying anything in the totl price range without a demo.
> 
> Given what you have though, maybe what you should try are some IEMs. Empire Ears Odín has just been released in custom form.. 😁


He,  he. Today I realized that I am in a good place with what I already have.  I have four daps to play with ( Acoustic research ar-m2,  Calyx m,  Cayin n8 and Cayin N6II) three amps (Woo Audio WA8,  Romi Audio BX2 plus and the Headstage arrow) and many iems (Jh audio Roxanne performance series,  Jh audio Lola,  Jh audio Layla Titanium version, Noble Audio K10 and many more). The only iem that is on my radar is the Jh audio Jolene


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

RTodd said:


> Can’t help but think about digital photography has now surpassed the resolution capable from film negative emulsions. Is digital better well it depends on what you like to look at. Is digital easier to use. Think there is a parallel here.


I think what is missing from this discussion is that full tube amp sound is different than hybrid tube amp.   Our friend prefers the tube sound.    Nothing wrong with that.   I purchased a c9 and I am sure to be happy with it.   I’ll probably also by a wa8 and like it too as a complementary product.


----------



## immortalsoul

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I think what is missing from this discussion is that full tube amp sound is different than hybrid tube amp.   Our friend prefers the tube sound.    Nothing wrong with that.   I purchased a c9 and I am sure to be happy with it.   I’ll probably also by a wa8 and like it too as a complementary product.


I would have bought the cayin C9 myself if I wouldn't have the Cayin n8 already,  but since I have the N8 I realized that I am covered. Don't get me wrong,  the C9 is a great sounding amp and you guys own a great amp, plus it is easy to change the battery in it and it has the option to modify the sound a bit by choosing between tube and solid state


----------



## RTodd

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I think what is missing from this discussion is that full tube amp sound is different than hybrid tube amp.   Our friend prefers the tube sound.    Nothing wrong with that.   I purchased a c9 and I am sure to be happy with it.   I’ll probably also by a wa8 and like it too as a complementary product.


I do not hear Korg NuTubes to be that tube like. Just a little bit tube like. For some they will not be enough of what they are looking for.


----------



## immortalsoul

The Korg tubes to my ears sound more like a solid state combined with the 3D imaging capabilities of the tubes but it is not as warm and natural sounding as the real tubes


----------



## Whitigir

immortalsoul said:


> The Korg tubes to my ears sound more like a solid state combined with the 3D imaging capabilities of the tubes but it is not as warm and natural sounding as the real tubes


Korg tubes is like a hybrid of solid states and some tubes distortions.  It is different than the classic tubes for sure


----------



## jmills8

kwilkins said:


> This weekend I spent a fair amount of time comparing the Hugo 2 paired with the C9 and with the Woo WA8.  Both combinations sound fantastic, for most songs I did prefer the H2 and WA8 over the H2 and C9.  To my ears that WA8 has a stronger base, better separation and a warmer sound.  I think the WA8 is more "tubey" sounding and works particularly well on songs with a lot of treble that the H2 on it's own is too bright for me.  The C9 in tube mode also tames songs like that but not as much as the WA8.
> 
> As I mentioned before the C9 is a lot more versatile than the WA8, the battery lasts a lot longer, the C9 doesn't get nearly as hot as the WA8 and the C9 is much more portable.  When it comes just to sound quality and the warm tube sound the WA8 sounds better to me.


What were the artists , tracks you used ?


----------



## jmills8

bigbeans said:


> C9 as my desktop rig with WA7. Anyone else put a premium on desk space?


Looks very ocd.


----------



## bigbeans

jmills8 said:


> Looks very ocd.


Haha thanks...I guess?

I try to keep my desk clean, leaves more room for headphones


----------



## Jeffyue

xand said:


> @bluestorm1992 the WA8 is pure tube, single ended only (6.35 and 3.5), with claimed power of 250mW @32Ω/120mW@300Ω. It's  1.1 kg, and has a built in ESS 9018 DAC.


I think there is a switch on the WA8 that is used to switch the tubes on and off.  So if u turn the tube off, it should be sounding like a SS amp.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Jeffyue said:


> I think there is a switch on the WA8 that is used to switch the tubes on and off.  So if u turn the tube off, it should be sounding like a SS amp.


Thanks! BTW you guys are so silent in the WeChat group except for @bigbeans and @Zhang Enyuan.


----------



## DaYooper

jmills8 said:


> Looks very ocd.


It's CDO (alphabetical order)


----------



## MusicTeck

The Cayin C9 is back in stock at MusicTeck! Cases are also available for purchase 

C9: https://shop.musicteck.com/products...2&_sid=385bfe0a7&_ss=r&variant=32712909619262

C9 case: https://shop.musicteck.com/products...1&_sid=f06649a35&_ss=r&variant=39320779489342


----------



## Dietmar Görtz

bigbeans said:


> C9 as my desktop rig with WA7. Anyone else put a premium on desk space?



Can you send me a link where you can buy the rack.
That looks great!!!

Best 
Dietmar from Germany


----------



## Lu88

Dietmar Görtz said:


> Can you send me a link where you can buy the rack.
> That looks great!!!
> 
> Best
> Dietmar from Germany


Here:
https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B07NDRD2PT/
https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B07NDRF6JN/


----------



## Dietmar Görtz

THANK´S!


----------



## xand (Apr 14, 2021)

Jeffyue said:


> I think there is a switch on the WA8 that is used to switch the tubes on and off.  So if u turn the tube off, it should be sounding like a SS amp.



The WA8 switch is between 2-tube and 3-tube modes - it switches a 6021 tube on and off. A pair of 6S31B tubes are always on.

Edit: I've been reading reviews. I kinda like the look of the gold color variant. hahaha.

--

Actually, speaking of alternatives to the C9 - has anyone heard the Analog Squared Paper TU-05? https://www.analog2p.com/product/tu05.html

4.4mm and 100% tube, and can be ordered with a 4.4mm.

https://www.headfonia.com/analog-squared-paper-tu-05/


----------



## brannigan (Apr 14, 2021)

@Andykong to test out my laptop audio, I connected the 3.5 aux out from a relatively new ThinkPad laptop to the 3.5 input of the C9. The C9 was charging from a usb c port from the same laptop. The moment I plugged in the 3.5 to the C9, heard a high pitched sound from the laptop follows by an instant shut down. Upon restart the laptop audio is fried including internal microphone and speakers. Is this a grounding issue of the C9 or a phantom power that fried the laptop audio.
The C9 seems to have escaped unscathed from this incident.


----------



## xand (Apr 14, 2021)

brannigan said:


> @Andykong to test out my laptop audio, *I connected the 3.5 aux out from a relatively new ThinkPad laptop to the 3.5 input of the C9. The C9 was charging from a usb c port from the same laptop.* The moment I plugged in the 3.5 to the C9, heard a high pitched sound from the laptop follows by an instant shut down. Upon restart the laptop audio is fried including internal microphone and speakers. Is this a grounding issue of the C9 or a phantom power that fried the laptop audio.
> The C9 seems to have escaped unscathed from this incident.



The bolded bits are directly against user instructions in the manual and what @Andykong has posted.

The C9 escaped because it's protection mode activated.

Edit: Link to manual: https://en.cayin.cn/down1/show?id=13620

Excerpt from manual, page 15 - *might even damage the device and/or connected source equipment*.


----------



## brannigan

xand said:


> The bolded bits are directly against user instructions in the manual and what @Andykong has posted.
> 
> The C9 escaped because it's protection mode activated.
> 
> ...


Appreciate the response. Totally my mess up here.


----------



## xand

brannigan said:


> Appreciate the response. Totally my mess up here.



Hope you can treat the destroyed laptop just an excuse to replace the laptop hahahaha.


----------



## brannigan

xand said:


> Hope you can treat the destroyed laptop just an excuse to replace the laptop hahahaha.


Fortunately it’s a work laptop. They’re replacing it with a spanking new X1 carbon. Not complaining.


----------



## xand

brannigan said:


> Fortunately it’s a work laptop. They’re replacing it with a spanking new X1 carbon. Not complaining.



Not a bad time to get it replaced - hope the X1 has a 11th gen proc! 

Remember not to charge the C9 with the source and see other tips here (link to earlier in the thread):

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...dphone-amplifier.943135/page-48#post-16152883


----------



## michaelc

brannigan said:


> Fortunately it’s a work laptop. They’re replacing it with a spanking new X1 carbon. Not complaining.


I know how to request a new laptop now...thanks for the tip!!!


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 14, 2021)

That is funny, and I asked over Facebook to Cayin directly, to whoever claimed to be Cayin engineer, and got a respond from Cayin *that we tried many scenarios, and there were no damages to the sources that is related to the C9 protective mode.*

I originally asked about this because I was investigating the possibility of this scenarios in relations to the possibility of making a linear power supply for the C9.  It seems that the Chips on the source that is taken care of the separate virtual ground to control and manage the battery would be fried due to this short which triggers the C9 protection mode.  While something is as simple as this, it may be very hard to fix, unless you can tell exactly what is going on, and the parts that are damaged by the laptop, also the ability to order this parts and the ability to fix it yourself.  *Otherwise, you may end up killing your very expensive Source, whatever that may be.*

So, there are only 2 possibilities:

1/ dont buy into the C9 if you are not ready for this
2/ if you adore the C9, then always make sure to charge it with it own charger and into a separated outlet.  Why did Cayin, I assume, fully aware of this, having @Andykong to post about this, and yet to not include the charger with the expensive purchase is beyond me

I have triggered the C9 protective modes a few times, and I can tell it as much as this .  If your source, that has a connected ground, and charged together with the same charger that also use the same ground.....you will trigger the protective mode and it will end your good day.

These following are the scenarios by far

1/ using any 3.5mm, or single ended connection.  You are basically having ground connected on the 3.5mm from the source, for example a laptop, a DAP, a PC.  If connected to the C9 input, this 3.5mm ground will connect to C9 ground, to do the job that the Single Ended is supposed to do.  *If you then charge the C9 out from any USB outlet of this very same source,* the DAP, Laptop, PC, you will short the Ground controls of the C9 charging/protecting circuitry into the DAP/PC/Laptop together to the Single Ended ground for sound.  You will end up frying something beautifully. *Now, to make it clear, please don’t be confused between usb outlet from the source VS AC outlet from the same AC socket that connects the source.  You can use another charger, and plug it into the same AC wall outlet of your Source just fine.  I am talking strictly ABOUT UsB outlet from your Laptop/DAP/DAC/PC*

2/ Using Balanced connection by 4.4mm and whatever the source offer.  *If the source has a ground chassis connected for the so called (The right shielding)*.  Then you also use the Interconnect that has ground connected (The right shielding), that connects both the Source chassis, and the C9 Chassis.  Then you are using the very same charger that has it own Power control such as Anker with multiple USB outlets, then your C9 will enter protective mode.

This protective mode, either leave the C9 not powering on, until you remove the tray or charge the C9 alone for 10 seconds, or it could fry your Source, your charger......don’t know about the C9 being fried much, but I don’t want to risk it until Cayin starts making the tray available separately

*So, my advices is that, you do not charge the C9 if using the 3.5mm interconnect from the same laptop/pc/DAC outlet that connects the 3.5mm into the C9.
Also, use interconnect that has no ground connected for balanced connections of all kinds.  You do not need this kind of shielding, unless you are connecting a 25 Feets length apart, which I would think you better have a real desktop system instead.

Except, if you know what you are getting into, and Adore the right shielding ideas, then be my guesT*.  By the way, as long as the grounds are connected, you will thread upon the #2 listed above, and that mean that it doesn’t have to be the right shielding to trigger it.....just as long as it is connected. ....You have been warned.  Oh, and top that off with the cylindrical coaxial design of the 4.4mm or balanced plugs that can momentarily short R- and Ground....oh hoh hoh, it will not be pretty.  So, please, do not use any balanced IC that has ground connected


----------



## jmills8

L


Whitigir said:


> That is funny, and I asked over Facebook to Cayin directly, to whoever claimed to be Cayin engineer, and got a respond from Cayin *that we tried many scenarios, and there were no damages to the sources that is related to the C9 protective mode.*
> 
> I originally asked about this because I was investigating the possibility of this scenarios in relations to the possibility of making a linear power supply for the C9.  It seems that the Chips on the source that is taken care of the separate virtual ground to control and manage the battery would be fried due to this short which triggers the C9 protection mode.  While something is as simple as this, it may be very hard to fix, unless you can tell exactly what is going on, and the parts that are damaged by the laptop, also the ability to order this parts and the ability to fix it yourself.  *Otherwise, you may end up killing your very expensive Source, whatever that may be.*
> 
> ...


"Be my GUEST"


----------



## xand

Whitigir said:


> Why did Cayin, I assume, fully aware of this, having @Andykong to post about this, and yet to not include the charger with the expensive purchase is beyond me



It comes down to one word: Courage.

https://techcrunch.com/2016/09/07/courage/


----------



## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> That is funny, and I asked over Facebook to Cayin directly, to whoever claimed to be Cayin engineer, and got a respond from Cayin *that we tried many scenarios, and there were no damages to the sources that is related to the C9 protective mode.*
> 
> I originally asked about this because I was investigating the possibility of this scenarios in relations to the possibility of making a linear power supply for the C9.  It seems that the Chips on the source that is taken care of the separate virtual ground to control and manage the battery would be fried due to this short which triggers the C9 protection mode.  While something is as simple as this, it may be very hard to fix, unless you can tell exactly what is going on, and the parts that are damaged by the laptop, also the ability to order this parts and the ability to fix it yourself.  *Otherwise, you may end up killing your very expensive Source, whatever that may be.*
> 
> ...


I guess people can also just follow the simple rule of do not charge C9 while using it. Basically, cheat C9 like your phone. Use it without charging it on the day, and plug it to a dedicated charger at night.


----------



## Jeffyue

Just happen to put WA8 & C9 together for a comparison of size... Size is comparable but WA8 way heavier.  I would use both only indoor.

Sound-wise WA8 still have a more refined tube size compared to C9. In whiskey term, it s 21-year against 18-year. From time to time I prefer a 12-year aka N3Pro.  So different people (or even the same person) can have different sound preference.... No right or wrong answer here...


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> I guess people can also just follow the simple rule of do not charge C9 while using it. Basically, cheat C9 like your phone. Use it without charging it on the day, and plug it to a dedicated charger at night.


This is important! The protection would kick in regardless if you are or not using the C9.  It happens as long as you plugging both into the same charger and instances as I mentioned previously


----------



## xand

Jeffyue said:


> Just happen to put WA8 & C9 together for a comparison of size... Size is comparable but WA8 way heavier.  I would use both only indoor.


It's okay to use the C9 portably, in a bag - although I would suggest avoiding tube/A. I'm doing it right now.

WA8 is hilarious, the user manual says: "Do not use the amplifier in a bag".

What I think Cayin needs to do next, @Andykong, is perhaps to build a bag for the C9 such as the following.





(The tube amp pictured is the TU-05, which is 1kg, and manufacturer makes and sells the bag, and also allows for customisation of the "dap pocket" size... haha)



Jeffyue said:


> Sound-wise WA8 still have a more refined tube size compared to C9. In whiskey term, it s 21-year against 18-year. From time to time I prefer a 12-year aka N3Pro.  So different people (or even the same person) can have different sound preference.... No right or wrong answer here...


Oh absolutely. Andy himself has said, even before launch, that the C9 was designed within a certain performance envelope.


----------



## lumdicks

Enjoying music at night.
Roon → Lumin U1 Mini → Chord Hugo 2 → Cayin C9 → Meze Empyrean


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Jeffyue said:


> Just happen to put WA8 & C9 together for a comparison of size... Size is comparable but WA8 way heavier.  I would use both only indoor.
> 
> Sound-wise WA8 still have a more refined tube size compared to C9. In whiskey term, it s 21-year against 18-year. From time to time I prefer a 12-year aka N3Pro.  So different people (or even the same person) can have different sound preference.... No right or wrong answer here...


I love the idea of being able to hold a tube amp in my hand.    too bad you can't tube roll with it.  Can you imagine having 2-3 tube sockets on the outside of that bad boy to swap out tubes?


----------



## Whitigir

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I love the idea of being able to hold a tube amp in my hand.    too bad you can't tube roll with it.  Can you imagine having 2-3 tube sockets on the outside of that bad boy to swap out tubes?


You better stop giving Cayin ideas...the last thing I want to see is a C4 with swappable tubes in the form of a C9 or slightly larger

My pocket ain’t ready


----------



## bigbeans

Whitigir said:


> You better stop giving Cayin ideas...the last thing I want to see is a C4 with swappable tubes in the form of a C9 or slightly larger
> 
> My pocket ain’t ready


C4...I see what you did there haha


----------



## xand

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I love the idea of being able to hold a tube amp in my hand.    too bad you can't tube roll with it.  Can you imagine having 2-3 tube sockets on the outside of that bad boy to swap out tubes?



You know the TU-05 allows swappable tubes right (and the tubes are apparently still cheap). 

Sorry I don't know why I'm so fixated on the TU-05 hahahhaa.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

xand said:


> You know the TU-05 allows swappable tubes right (and the tubes are apparently still cheap).
> 
> Sorry I don't know why I'm so fixated on the TU-05 hahahhaa.


never heard of it.   How does it compare to the WA8?


----------



## immortalsoul

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> never heard of it.   How does it compare to the WA8?


There is a review of the Wa8 where the person compare the two amps. In his opinion Wa8 sound better than TU-05. You can check the review here on head-fi


----------



## jmills8

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> never heard of it.   How does it compare to the WA8?


2 hours of battery life.


----------



## xand (Apr 14, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> never heard of it.   How does it compare to the WA8?





immortalsoul said:


> There is a review of the Wa8 where the person compare the two amps. In his opinion Wa8 sound better than TU-05. You can check the review here on head-fi



The review immortalsoul is thinking of is here: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/wooaudio-wa8-eclipse.21468/reviews - search "HUGO".

It's quite funny - the reviewer:

1. preferred the TU-05 to the WA8 amplification section when both were used purely as amplifiers, with the Hugo (1) as a source; however, they

2. preferred the WA8 as a DAC+AMP over Hugo->TU-05 combination.

Given the current state of how the Hugo (1) ranks as a DAC, I'm not sure it's a really good idea to take conclusion 2 as being accurate over conclusion 1. Frankly I think it needs to be demoed.

Unfortunately, there have only been 111 or so TU-05s ever made , and there have been improvements made to the TU-05 since it was first released (look at the manufacturer facebook), so this may need to be a blind purchase, which is.. GAH.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Apr 14, 2021)

lumdicks said:


> Enjoying music at night.
> Roon → Lumin U1 Mini → Chord Hugo 2 → Cayin C9 → Meze Empyrean


Interesting desktop set up.    I think I'll test out my Bluesound Node 2i streamer with the Hugo 2 and C9.   It supports tidal connect, so I can use my iPhone as controller.   I was planning to just use a DAP or USB to my laptop as a source, but the streamer might work great as a desktop set up.

Actually, maybe I'll try alternating my Bottlehead Crack with the C9 in my tube amp set up:

Node 2i > Schiit Bifrost 2 > C9 > IEMs and headphones.   The Bifrost 2 has balanced XLR output.  That might sound pretty good.


----------



## lumdicks

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Interesting desktop set up.    I think I'll test out my Bluesound Node 2i streamer with the Hugo 2 and C9.   It supports tidal connect, so I can use my iPhone as controller.   I was planning to just use a DAP or USB to my laptop as a source, but the streamer might work great as a desktop set up.
> 
> Actually, maybe I'll try alternating my Bottlehead Crack with the C9 in my tube amp set up:
> 
> Node 2i > Schiit Bifrost 2 > C9 > IEMs and headphones.   The Bifrost 2 has balanced XLR output.  That might sound pretty good.


I found the difference of sound quality between using my iMac and designated streamer as source is very huge. The cleanliness, micro details and imaging are much improved. Computer is well considered as a noisy source but I have not imagined the margin of difference until I got my Lumin U1 Mini.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

lumdicks said:


> I found the difference of sound quality between using my iMac and designated streamer as source is very huge. The cleanliness, micro details and imaging are much improved. Computer is well considered as a noisy source but I have not imagined the margin of difference until I got my Lumin U1 Mini.


Oh, I agree.  That's why I moved to streamers.  After the improvement I experienced with the Node 2i streamer, I bought a Chord Poly for my Mojo and a 2go for my Hugo 2.    The reason why I use USB is to access Equalizer APO since it is the best Equalizer I've encountered.   I hear the Roon EQ is fantastic.  So, I am most likely over time moving to Roon.    I am just at the early stages of learning how to EQ to various target curves so that I can determine my own preference curve.    So, I think the best test tool is Equalizer APO on the laptop and once I get the right parametric EQ settings, I can move them to Roon to get the best overall sound quality.


----------



## immortalsoul

xand said:


> The review immortalsoul is thinking of is here: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/wooaudio-wa8-eclipse.21468/reviews - search "HUGO".
> 
> It's quite funny - the reviewer:
> 
> ...


Yes,  you are correct,  that is the review and like you mentioned he preferred the whole package dac+amp. People sometimes forget that WA8 is not just an Amp, it is a dac+amp and a great one, the dac included in the amp is integrated really well


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Apr 14, 2021)

Has anyone tried to pair a DX160 + C9 and compare it either with DX300 + C9 or DX300 alone?    I am trying to get a sense of the sound quality of the DX160 in relation to the various pairings.    I just bought a DX160 to see if I like it better than my current R 6 2020 as a stand alone DAP and I am wondering how much improvement to the sound the C9 can do to the DX160.    As we wait for the dedicated Line Out module for the DX300, I thought I'd do some A/B testing of various pairings.

I forgot to mention, I am going to test the PEQ capabilities of the DX160, too.   I am finding that it's PEQ or bust.   I don't like any of the EQ variaents I've encountered like MSEB or genre specific EQ presets.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 14, 2021)

I was looking for a 1DD IEM to complete my collection, and I got recommend this from the C9 user group: Etymotic ER2SE.

I got it today and after a couple of hours with it, I am really impressed by its synergy with C9. It is not just a value-for-money thing, it is simply REALLY good. Quite interestingly, pairing the ER2SE with SP2000 alone was not nearly as good as with C9. The music is way too soft and the bass is completely gone. People from the C9 user group told me that ER2SE require a lot of power and a very good amp to drive properly, and C9 turns out to be a really good match with it.

The ER2SE is quite affordable from Amazon ($79). If you are somewhat interested in 1DD IEM and have a C9, I genuinely recommend you to try this out.






Edit: The ER2SE has a really low sensitivity (96db). To put this into perspective, MEST has a sensitivity of 118db. This may explain why it can benefit so much from pairing with C9.


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> I was looking for a 1DD IEM to complete my collection, and I got recommend this from the C9 user group: Etymotic ER2SE.
> 
> I got it today and after a couple of hours with it, I am really impressed by its synergy with C9. It is not just a value-for-money thing, it is simply REALLY good. Quite interestingly, pairing the ER2SE with SP2000 alone was not nearly as good as with C9. The music is way too soft and the bass is completely gone. People from the C9 user group told me that ER2SE require a lot of power and a very good amp to drive properly, and C9 turns out to be a really good match with it.
> 
> ...


Loving my EX1K from Sony.  It has aged like fine wine


----------



## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> Loving my EX1K from Sony.  It has aged like fine wine


Indeed, it is amazing how good these “old” gears can sound like.

This reminds me of a comment on the tech development in IEMs. One reviewer said that a lot of recent engineering effort has been put to the “efficiency” side of an IEM, I.e., how to make an IEM be able to achieve excellent performance with some less “powerful” devices, or even with a regular phone. The ER2SE has a very mediocre performance even from SP2000, and I believe that the latest 1DD IEMs should have a much better performance with SP2000 and even with just phones or small dongles


----------



## Kiats

bluestorm1992 said:


> I was looking for a 1DD IEM to complete my collection, and I got recommend this from the C9 user group: Etymotic ER2SE.
> 
> I got it today and after a couple of hours with it, I am really impressed by its synergy with C9. It is not just a value-for-money thing, it is simply REALLY good. Quite interestingly, pairing the ER2SE with SP2000 alone was not nearly as good as with C9. The music is way too soft and the bass is completely gone. People from the C9 user group told me that ER2SE require a lot of power and a very good amp to drive properly, and C9 turns out to be a really good match with it.
> 
> ...


Good taste in music @bluestorm1992


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 14, 2021)

Kiats said:


> Good taste in music @bluestorm1992


I am a huge fan of Yanzi Sun. 

I used to put her as my WeChat background, and was ordered to take it down by my wife. Now I put her as the wallpaper of my DAP.


----------



## Kiats

bluestorm1992 said:


> I am a huge fan of Yanzi Sun.
> 
> I used to put her as my WeChat background, and was ordered to take it down by my wife. Now I put her as the wallpaper of my DAP.


Haha! My wife is a big fan too. And I spy Lala Hsu too. Great composer-singer.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Kiats said:


> Haha! My wife is a big fan too. And I spy Lala Hsu too. Great composer-singer.


Yes I like her too! Almost all my listening is done with Chinese female singers from mainland China, Taiwan, HK, and SG. I listen to both mando pop and cantopop.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> Yes I like her too! Almost all my listening is done with Chinese female singers from mainland China, Taiwan, HK, and SG. I listen to both mando pop and cantopop.


My wife is a huge BTS fan.    She attends paid online concerts.    And she is taking a Korean language class while watching lots of Korean programming on Netflix.


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> My wife is a huge BTS fan.    She attends paid online concerts.    And she is taking a Korean language class while watching lots of Korean programming on Netflix.


My wife likes Korean girl groups like Black Pink. I fell asleep every time she started to talk about the history and rumor for those groups...


----------



## aaf evo

C9 and the case is finally here, will report back after I spent some time with it


----------



## bigbeans

I can imagine @bluestorm1992 reading C9 reviews.

Some reviewer: "The Cayin C9 offers the user a glimpse into a true concert hall venue. The decay of the violin and the expanded soundstage reminds us of the live venues we once visited. It seems Beethoven has come alive in this glorious private concert for one, and I advise anyone to try orchestral music to plumb the depths of this amplifier."

@bluestorm1992 *nods head*, *puts on Black Pink*


----------



## bluestorm1992

bigbeans said:


> I can imagine @bluestorm1992 reading C9 reviews.
> 
> Some reviewer: "The Cayin C9 offers the user a glimpse into a true concert hall venue. The decay of the violin and the expanded soundstage reminds us of the live venues we once visited. It seems Beethoven has come alive in this glorious private concert for one, and I advise anyone to try orchestral music to plumb the depths of this amplifier."
> 
> @bluestorm1992 *nods head*, *puts on Black Pink*


Haha! Speaking of this, I actually use my V2+C9 to try out live recordings for those girl groups with my wife. The main goal is to try to identify the "true" live recordings versus those pre-recorded/heavily edited recordings. It is really hard to tell when just listening through iPhones, but the difference becomes so obvious with V2+C9.


----------



## bigbeans

bluestorm1992 said:


> Haha! Speaking of this, I actually use my V2+C9 to try out live recordings for those girl groups with my wife. The main goal is to try to identify the "true" live recordings versus those pre-recorded/heavily edited recordings. It is really hard to tell when just listening through iPhones, but the difference becomes so obvious with V2+C9.


...where can you find such live recordings...


----------



## bluestorm1992

bigbeans said:


> ...where can you find such live recordings...


Just YouTube videos and from Bilibili (a Chinese website)z


----------



## Kiats

bluestorm1992 said:


> Yes I like her too! Almost all my listening is done with Chinese female singers from mainland China, Taiwan, HK, and SG. I listen to both mando pop and cantopop.


So do you rip from CDs or streaming service?


----------



## bluestorm1992

Kiats said:


> So do you rip from CDs or streaming service?


Both. For Yanzi I have her complete CD collections. For some singers it is impossible to get their CDs in the US so I do streaming.


----------



## Kiats

bluestorm1992 said:


> Both. For Yanzi I have her complete CD collections. For some singers it is impossible to get their CDs in the US so I do streaming.


Ah OK. Tidal has both Stefanie Sun and Lala Hsu now. Stefanie in MQA. both listed as Stefanie Sun and majority as Sun Yanzi.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Kiats said:


> Ah OK. Tidal has both Stefanie Sun and Lala Hsu now. Stefanie in MQA. both listed as Stefanie Sun and majority as Sun Yanzi.


Ah thanks! I have found Spotify to have almost all the music I want, but too bad that they still haven’t released a Hifi script ion. The good news is that it should finally be available within this year.


----------



## bluestorm1992

aaf evo said:


> C9 and the case is finally here, will report back after I spent some time with it


You may have a sleepless night ahead.   Looking forward to your impressions!


----------



## aaf evo (Apr 15, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> You may have a sleepless night ahead.   Looking forward to your impressions!



I’m honestly super tired but giving myself some 6000 + C9 + Traillii time. So far I’m very impressed, that’s all I have to say for now. It’ll be a while before I gather any solid impressions but I’m enjoying everything I am hearing.


----------



## bluestorm1992

aaf evo said:


> I’m honestly super tired but giving myself some 6000 + C9 + Traillii time. So far I’m very impressed, that’s all I have to say for now. It’ll be a while before I gather any solid impressions but I’m enjoying everything I am heading.


Probably more sleepless nights awaiting you.


----------



## bluestorm1992

aaf evo said:


> I’m honestly super tired but giving myself some 6000 + C9 + Traillii time. So far I’m very impressed, that’s all I have to say for now. It’ll be a while before I gather any solid impressions but I’m enjoying everything I am hearing.


Oh yes, just one quick tip. If you want to fully enjoy the Lotoo sound signature, you may want to try out C9's pre-mode. But, don't experiment with that when you are tired. Probably wait until the weekend and you have more time. Read the manual carefully and make sure to have your IEMs *off your ears* when trying this mode for the first time, and maybe do that with some less-expensive IEMs first.


----------



## aaf evo

bluestorm1992 said:


> Oh yes, just one quick tip. If you want to fully enjoy the Lotoo sound signature, you may want to try out C9's pre-mode. But, don't experiment with that when you are tired. Probably wait until the weekend and you have more time. Read the manual carefully and make sure to have your IEMs *off your ears* when trying this mode for the first time, and maybe do that with some less-expensive IEMs first.



Gotcha, will definitely check the manual out. I’m brand new to AMPs so I probably will mess something up if I don’t understand it all, and maybe my ears. Lol. Right now with the 6000 + C9 + Traillii (solid state, class A) the biggest difference I can notice over any other portable setup I’ve used is how good the imaging is. I do obviously hear a wider and more open stage too but the imaging is what is getting me the most impressed here. The notes come from pure blackness. The Traillii is incredible in that aspect regardless of source but it is a totally different level here, something that you sort of need to hear to believe it.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 15, 2021)

aaf evo said:


> Gotcha, will definitely check the manual out. I’m brand new to AMPs so I probably will mess something up if I don’t understand it all, and maybe my ears. Lol. Right now with the 6000 + C9 + Traillii (solid state, class A) the biggest difference I can notice over any other portable setup I’ve used is how good the imaging is. I do obviously hear a wider and more open stage too but the imaging is what is getting me the most impressed here. The notes come from pure blackness. The Traillii is incredible in that aspect regardless of source but it is a totally different level here, something that you sort of need to hear to believe it.


Indeed, the improvement in imaging is so significant. Many users are shocked by that their TOTL IEMs can become even better, and the mid-tier IEM like the MEST can have such an incredible potential. Have to hear it to believe it.


----------



## decur

is traillii considered the best iem on the market today? i think it is the most expensive? i have always been a jh audio fan
and currently have custom lola. i wonder how much better something like traillii is.


----------



## bluestorm1992

decur said:


> is traillii considered the best iem on the market today? i think it is the most expensive? i have always been a jh audio fan
> and currently have custom lola. i wonder how much better something like traillii is.


Traillii users unite! We have quite a lot of them here.


----------



## RTodd (Apr 15, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> Traillii users unite! We have quite a lot of them here.


Thought Mest was the Best. In Jest.
Traillii is spectacular what does it matter which is the best. There is so much user preference in that choice and not too many of us have heard and lived with everything.

Decur There is a thread for Traillii that you could spend some time on if you are considering it.


----------



## aaf evo

Oh man, the C9 is working wonders for the A18s. While it isn’t a closed sounding IEM by any means and has great soundstage width, it is a bit more intimate in the mid range than the Traillii and the changes here are quite noticeable with the A18s. It sounds far more open to me, kinda getting towards that “holographic” area. I love this thing!

Really looking forward to the dedicated LO from AMP 12 for the DX300 also.


----------



## bluestorm1992

decur said:


> is traillii considered the best iem on the market today? i think it is the most expensive? i have always been a jh audio fan
> and currently have custom lola. i wonder how much better something like traillii is.


Maybe I can also weigh in here. If you check my signature you can see what IEMs I have had. To me I strictly prefer Traillii to all of them except for Sultan perhaps. Again as RTodd said this is a very much preference-dependent thing, but what is amazing about the bird is that the owners of it all seem to be very satisfied with it.


----------



## bluestorm1992

aaf evo said:


> Oh man, the C9 is working wonders for the A18s. While it isn’t a closed sounding IEM by any means and has great soundstage width, it is a bit more intimate in the mid range than the Traillii and the changes here are quite noticeable with the A18s. It sounds far more open to me, kinda getting towards that “holographic” area. I love this thing!
> 
> Really looking forward to the dedicated LO from AMP 12 for the DX300 also.


Yup, C9 has that magic.  

I was looking back to the list of IEMs that can benefit from C9, MEST, Traillii, U18t... and many more, and it seems that C9 particularly benefits the aspect of sound covered by the BA units of those IEMs.


----------



## jmills8 (Apr 15, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> Maybe I can also weigh in here. If you check my signature you can see what IEMs I have had. To me I strictly prefer Traillii to all of them except for Sultan perhaps. Again as RTodd said this is a very much preference-dependent thing, but what is amazing about the bird is that the owners of it all seem to be very satisfied with it.


The style of music you prrfer is important. Where you came from such as : floor standing speakers ,  self speakers , car audio , headphones , culrure , upbring , hearing weaknesses and strengths , Brought up attending live shows , did one listen with other people or alone in a room .


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

aaf evo said:


> Oh man, the C9 is working wonders for the A18s. While it isn’t a closed sounding IEM by any means and has great soundstage width, it is a bit more intimate in the mid range than the Traillii and the changes here are quite noticeable with the A18s. It sounds far more open to me, kinda getting towards that “holographic” area. I love this thing!
> 
> Really looking forward to the dedicated LO from AMP 12 for the DX300 also.


That's great to hear.    Maybe you should keep them.   They were literally made just for you.


----------



## aaf evo

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> That's great to hear.    Maybe you should keep them.   They were literally made just for you.



Heh, not having much luck selling them so I may not really have a choice. Not really the end of the world.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> Yup, C9 has that magic.
> 
> I was looking back to the list of IEMs that can benefit from C9, MEST, Traillii, U18t... and many more, and it seems that C9 particularly benefits the aspect of sound covered by the BA units of those IEMs.


Interesting observation.   C9 improves BA drivers?     I have to wait 2 weeks before I can hear mine since I am travelling and can't get to it until then.  I can't wait to find out myself.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 15, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Interesting observation.   C9 improves BA drivers?     I have to wait 2 weeks before I can hear mine since I am travelling and can't get to it until then.  I can't wait to find out myself.


That’s my observation so far. And, this is not to say that C9 cannot benefit the DD driver. I have seen positive reports from Zen and Dita XLS users. It is just that the way C9 improves the two drivers seem to be different, which is reasonable because these two drives themselves are very different.

As I understand it, BA drivers have the features of being fast, accurate, but can be found to be a bit “thin” and lacking impact. With BA driver, C9 seems to improve the body of sound and adds a bit “emotion” and impact to the sound


----------



## RTodd

bluestorm1992 said:


> That’s my observation so far. And, this is not to say that C9 cannot benefit the DD driver. I have seen positive reports from Zen and Dita XLS users. It is just that the way C9 improves the two drivers seem to be different, which is reasonable because these two drives themselves are very different.
> 
> As I understand it, BA drivers have the features of being fast, accurate, but can be found to be a bit “thin” and lacking impact. With BA driver, C9 seems to improve the body of sound and adds a bit “emotion” and impact to the sound


U12T any thoughts with C9. It is nice as is but lacks in dramatics, so can seem kind of forgettable or lack luster. Would C9 change that, based on the last couple posts sounds possible?


----------



## bluestorm1992

aaf evo said:


> Heh, not having much luck selling them so I may not really have a choice. Not really the end of the world.


I guess C9 gives you the reason/option to pick them up from time to time before you are able to sell them (if you still want to lol).


----------



## bluestorm1992

RTodd said:


> U12T any thoughts with C9. It is nice as is but lacks in dramatics, so can seem kind of forgettable or lack luster. Would C9 change that, based on the last couple posts sounds possible?


Yes I think so. Based off my memory, C9 definitely made the U18t more enjoyable especially in long listening sessions. Meanwhile, I have also found the impact of the source to scale up with C9. That is, if you have found a DAP that can complement U12t in their sound signature, then C9 is going to make that complementarity even better.


----------



## decur

bluestorm1992 said:


> Maybe I can also weigh in here. If you check my signature you can see what IEMs I have had. To me I strictly prefer Traillii to all of them except for Sultan perhaps. Again as RTodd said this is a very much preference-dependent thing, but what is amazing about the bird is that the owners of it all seem to be very satisfied with it.


yeah,been thinking about asking andrew@musicteck for a demo,but squirming at the thought of spending 6k for iems
funny tho, i just recently pre ordered a pair of abyss ab1266 tc for 5k. just wondering if the extra spend is worth it for them


----------



## RTodd

decur said:


> yeah,been thinking about asking andrew@musicteck for a demo,but squirming at the thought of spending 6k for iems
> funny tho, i just recently pre ordered a pair of abyss ab1266 tc for 5k. just wondering if the extra spend is worth it for them


I have always heard it is best to eat before you go to the grocery store. May be best to listen to something that you have and like for a couple hours before the demo of the Traillii.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 15, 2021)

New toys arrived just now: Dunu EST 112 and the leather case for C9. 






First impression is that it is an IEM with thick and engaging sound, maybe a bit dark? Quite enjoyable with C9. Not as detailed and analytical as flagship, but has the feeling of surrounding sound. Maybe even a bit like Verite Closed.


----------



## decur

RTodd said:


> I have always heard it is best to eat before you go to the grocery store. May be best to listen to something that you have and like for a couple hours before the demo of the Traillii.


I miss going to can jam,where you can go from table to table testing headphones and iems with your own amp/dap or both.


----------



## bluestorm1992

decur said:


> I miss going to can jam,where you can go from table to table testing headphones and iems with your own amp/dap or both.


Hopefully SoCal Canjam is not too far away.


----------



## Kiats

bluestorm1992 said:


> New toys arrived just now: Dunu EST 112 and the leather case for C9.
> 
> 
> 
> First impression is that it is an IEM with thick and engaging sound, maybe a bit dark? Quite enjoyable with C9. Not as detailed and analytical as flagship, but has the feeling of surrounding sound. Maybe even a bit like Verite Closed.



Congrats @bluestorm1992 ! The case for the C9 makes a lot of sense. Something that should have been launched at the same time as the C9 itself. Look forward to hearing more about the EST112.


----------



## aaf evo

So what’s everyone’s favorite source to use for the C9 that isn’t the Max, A02, or SP2000? 👀


----------



## Kiats

aaf evo said:


> So what’s everyone’s favorite source to use for the C9 that isn’t the Max, A02, or SP2000? 👀



Thus far, it has been the M15 and the DX300. I use streaming services like Tidal, QQ Music and KKBox most of the time. So, M15 allows up sample to DSD and so it’s great for redbook songs. M15 also has a real LO. DX300 unfolds MQA 8X. So, it does depend on what I am listening to. I do love my SP2000Cu but the sluggish UI can be a bit frustrating.


----------



## tawmizzzz

Just put an order in for the C9. Damn you all!!!!!

Time to make the Traillii _really_ sing.


----------



## bluestorm1992

tawmizzzz said:


> Just put an order in for the C9. Damn you all!!!!!
> 
> Time to make the Traillii _really_ sing.


Congrats and welcome to the club!!!


----------



## DaYooper

C9 here today. Tube, high gain, balanced in class A balanced out so far the Klipsch HP-3 sounds best out of three phones tried (Utopia, SR2, HP-3) with N6ii/A02 source. I'm guessin a little more than 60 minutes burn in needed but really good for now about 11:00 on the juice dial.


----------



## RTodd

decur said:


> I miss going to can jam,where you can go from table to table testing headphones and iems with your own amp/dap or both.


I am so new to this that I never attended any. I started my journey last year, now I cannot wait till I can go to the next Can Jam in NYC. 
It will be epic.


----------



## bluestorm1992

DaYooper said:


> C9 here today. Tube, high gain, balanced in class A balanced out so far the Klipsch HP-3 sounds best out of three phones tried (Utopia, SR2, HP-3) with N6ii/A02 source. I'm guessin a little more than 60 minutes burn in needed but really good for now about 11:00 on the juice dial.


Congrats and enjoy!


----------



## Joseph Lin

Just received C9 this afternoon and have been testing it since then. Below is my initial impression.

The battery after 4 hours of test are still going strong but I was A/Bing it with WA8 and other amps so it is not constantly on. C9 by itself sounds great, great power, great dynamic and great extension. WA8 is still better though. C9 mix SS sound with a hint of Tube but still not as organic and smooth as WA8. Well, it is not a fair comparison as WA8 is a very expensive pure tube design. Both amps are heavy, but WA8 is "very" heavy. 

I also compared C9 with my "lesser" amps, C9 of course is much better than rest of them. iFi Macro sounds harsh when compared with C9 but it is also several times less expensive. The extension of both ends is excellent on C9 but the SS sound signature is similar to the rest of my portable amps(Fiio Q5, iFi...). WA8 on the other hand is way different than the rest especially lower end. it extends so deep...

I'll take both for my Summer vacation. I used Stellia this afternoon.


----------



## immortalsoul

Joseph Lin said:


> Just received C9 this afternoon and have been testing it since then. Below is my initial impression.
> 
> The battery after 4 hours of test are still going strong but I was A/Bing it with WA8 and other amps so it is not constantly on. C9 by itself sounds great, great power, great dynamic and great extension. WA8 is still better though. C9 mix SS sound with a hint of Tube but still not as organic and smooth as WA8. Well, it is not a fair comparison as WA8 is a very expensive pure tube design. Both amps are heavy, but WA8 is "very" heavy.
> 
> ...


I am happy to read that my impression are the same as yours findings. I too found the WA8 sounding better than C9


----------



## twister6

RTodd said:


> I am so new to this that I never attended any. I started my journey last year, now I cannot wait till I can go to the next Can Jam in NYC.
> It will be epic.



Going to CanJam is like being a kid in a candy store... where you can taste every candy   You will know what I mean next year in Feb


----------



## bluestorm1992

twister6 said:


> Going to CanJam is like being a kid in a candy store... where you can taste every candy   You will know what I mean next year in Feb


I think SoCal Canjam this year should be able to happen?  I mean an “actual” event.


----------



## Joseph Lin

immortalsoul said:


> I am happy to read that my impression are the same as yours findings. I too found the WA8 sounding better than C9


Looks like pure tube design with good sound and portable is still a dream. I'll keep hoping.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Joseph Lin said:


> Looks like pure tube design with good sound and portable is still a dream. I'll keep hoping.


I guess heat dissipation is still a major issue. I read from other impressions that WA8 can get a lot hotter than C9, and C9 in tube +class A is already kind of hot...


----------



## Joseph Lin

bluestorm1992 said:


> I guess heat dissipation is still a major issue. I read from other impressions that WA8 can get a lot hotter than C9, and C9 in tube +class A is already kind of hot...


It does get pretty hot.


----------



## Kiats

twister6 said:


> Going to CanJam is like being a kid in a candy store... where you can taste every candy   You will know what I mean next year in Feb


Leave your credit cards behind...


----------



## DaYooper (Apr 16, 2021)

DaYooper said:


> C9 here today. Tube, high gain, balanced in class A balanced out so far the Klipsch HP-3 sounds best out of three phones tried (Utopia, SR2, HP-3) with N6ii/A02 source. I'm guessin a little more than 60 minutes burn in needed but really good for now about 11:00 on the juice dial.


Update: HD800S Anniversary Edition is just peachy (as in sweet and tasty) with this little gem.
More info: All the headphone cables are https://lqicables.com/products/esprit-up-occ-silver-plated-copper. Interconnect custom made gold/silver,voodoo magic.


----------



## jmills8

DaYooper said:


> Update: HD800S Anniversary Edition is just peachy (as in sweet and tasty) with this little gem.


Tracks you used to believe this statement ?


----------



## DaYooper

jmills8 said:


> Tracks you used to believe this statement ?


I just put the N6ii on random from 22k+ tracks. granted, some sound better than others as expected. But since I'm an old fart there is a lot of old guy rock, plus all manner of newer music too (no Daft Punk though) and classical would be Yes, Kansas, and the like. Blues too. And did I mention, blues?


----------



## jmills8

DaYooper said:


> I just put the N6ii on random from 22k+ tracks. granted, some sound better than others as expected. But since I'm an old fart there is a lot of old guy rock, plus all manner of newer music too (no Daft Punk though) and classical would be Yes, Kansas, and the like. Blues too. And did I mention, blues?


Seen Bad Comp in 76 and Queen in 79.


----------



## DaYooper

jmills8 said:


> Seen Bad Comp in 76 and Queen in 79.


Yeah, it's been a very long time since I was at a real concert. That was the 1994 Chicago Blues Festival. The headliner was Clarence "Gatemouth" Brown. The night before he played at Buddy Guy's Legends club. That was quite a spectacular event to have his whole 13 piece band in a night club. Before that I was at the last concert for Stevie Ray Vaughn.


----------



## Whitigir

DaYooper said:


> Update: HD800S Anniversary Edition is just peachy (as in sweet and tasty) with this little gem.
> More info: All the headphone cables are https://lqicables.com/products/esprit-up-occ-silver-plated-copper. Interconnect custom made gold/silver,voodoo magic.


I can totally confirm 800s-Anniversary with your impressions .  welcome to the club, such a long wait!


----------



## RTodd (Apr 16, 2021)

DaYooper said:


> Yeah, it's been a very long time since I was at a real concert. That was the 1994 Chicago Blues Festival. The headliner was Clarence "Gatemouth" Brown. The night before he played at Buddy Guy's Legends club. That was quite a spectacular event to have his whole 13 piece band in a night club. Before that I was at the last concert for Stevie Ray Vaughn.


Quick story.

I was in NYC New Year’s Eve 1989.
A couple years earlier I had escaped from NYC, but still returned most weekends and crashed on friend’s coaches to hang out. I was with my friend George around 1:00 PM in the Village and we were hungry and thirsty.

There was a bar/restaurant called Boxers back then (great Bloody Mary), I had a crush on one of the waitresses so I frequented the establishment and was working on her. So we went, she came to our table and said “Todd you like music right, I have two extra VIP seats at the Ritz for Stevie Ray tonight you want them.”

George and I were so lucky.

The show was the last set of New Years Eve and seating started around 1:30AM we made our way up to the Ritz and there was an enormous line. But not for us we had VIP seats. We went directly in, our seats were two rows from the front of the balcony. With a waitress to bring drinks. The way the Ritz was laid out on the Balcony you ended up eye to eye with the performers.

The only “fly in the ointment” the Boxer’s waitress was sitting next to me holding hands with her boyfriend on the other side of her. Fortunately the boyfriend fell asleep 30 seconds into the first song, and they left.

I remember Stevie coming out and the first thing he said was “I am so happy to be here, I am clean from drug abuse, and so glad to play for you tonight” and then he ripped into the first song; The House Is Rockin’.

What a night.


----------



## bluestorm1992

RTodd said:


> Quick story.
> 
> I was in NYC New Year’s Eve 1989.
> A couple years earlier I had escaped from NYC, but still returned most weekends and crashed on friend’s coaches to hang out. I was with my friend George around 1:00 PM in the Village and we were hungry and thirsty.
> ...


Wow, what a piece of memory.


----------



## RTodd

bluestorm1992 said:


> Wow, what a piece of memory.


Just don’t ask me what I had for dinner last night. No worries I will eventually run out of stories...


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> Korg tubes is like a hybrid of solid states and some tubes distortions.  It is different than the classic tubes for sure


KORG Nutube is  identical to a triode tube electrically, so its a real tube from audio design point of view.  Unfortunately the current output is fairly weak and you cannot use it to drive a headphone or earphone directly, so we either use it as a tube buffer, or a hybrid design with Nutube as first amplification stage only, In either case, it is not a tube amplification all the way.   I have no idea if we can pair Nutube with a tube based second amplification stage, this should be theoretically possible, but I bet users will assume the "tubey" sound comes from the tube based second amplification stage anyway.


----------



## xand

I listened to my C9 until the battery died - again. 

I think I should probably stop doing that... >.<


----------



## bluestorm1992

xand said:


> I listened to my C9 until the battery died - again.
> 
> I think I should probably stop doing that... >.<


@Andykong we want the battery trays!


----------



## Andykong

bluestorm1992 said:


> I briefly compared C9 3.5 vs. 4.4 with my MEST MKii. My MEST is terminated at 2.5mm and I was able to use two DDHifi adapters to try it with the 3.5 and 4.4 outputs from C9. Same volume and same songs.
> 
> Long story short, the 4.4 output from C9 is indeed significantly better. The sound from 3.5mm is softer and lacking the impact from music. If I dial up the volume when using 3.5mm, it can achieve a similar level of impact but the music comes out as a bit too in my face and still lacking the details.
> 
> Edit: @immortalsoul perhaps take a shot and try the 4.4 out from C9? The difference is really noticeable to me.



Can you tell me what is your source to C9?  with 3.5mm or 4.4mm?  

Please be reminded that when C9 convert SE input to BAL or vice versa, but the conversion will downgrade audio performance slightly, so if you want to compare the SE and BAL output of C9, you might need to change the input connection as well: use SE input for 3.5mm phone out and BAL input for 4.4mm phone out.

If you look at the specification table closely, you''ll notice the different.  I have highlight two figures for your reference.  If you are  using BAL input to C9, you lost 9dB dynamic and SNR when switch from 4.4mm phone out to 3.5mm phone out.


----------



## Whitigir

Andykong said:


> KORG Nutube is  identical to a triode tube electrically, so its a real tube from audio design point of view.  Unfortunately the current output is fairly weak and you cannot use it to drive a headphone or earphone directly, so we either use it as a tube buffer, or a hybrid design with Nutube as first amplification stage only, In either case, it is not a tube amplification all the way.   I have no idea if we can pair Nutube with a tube based second amplification stage, this should be theoretically possible, but I bet users will assume the "tubey" sound comes from the tube based second amplification stage anyway.


There! You got the idea! Designing a Korg stage I and Tubes like N3 ii ? Stage 2 ?
May be a larger DAP ? Or a weaker amplifier that will also focused toward sensitive earbuds instead ? Who knows !!! Lol

Yeah, the C9 is surprisingly giving each mode a little differences in sound signatures.  But Of course all the output stages are Solid stage...unless.... swapping out the Toshiba FET for other of the same kinds (giggling*)   May need to retune the Biases a little by taking out the current senses resistors, turn the Pots, and put back the current senses resistors ?

Anyways, I should stop having ideas now


----------



## aaf evo (Apr 16, 2021)

Interesting , so if running SE on one side it’s best if possible to use SE for the other, and same with balanced?


----------



## aaf evo (Apr 16, 2021)

Man.... the sound coming from this combo is something I didn’t even know was possible from an IEM setup. This.. is.. stunning. Can’t wait to see how much more this can scale with a better LO (Lotoo paw 6000 pictured)


----------



## xand (Apr 16, 2021)

Andykong said:


> Please be reminded that when C9 convert SE input to BAL or vice versa, but the conversion will downgrade audio performance slightly, so if you want to compare the SE and BAL output of C9, you might need to change the input connection as well: use SE input for 3.5mm phone out and BAL input for 4.4mm phone out.
> 
> If you look at the specification table closely, you''ll notice the different.  I have highlight two figures for your reference.  If you are  using BAL input to C9, you lost 9dB dynamic and SNR when switch from 4.4mm phone out to 3.5mm phone out.



Wow thanks for this - never noticed.

Looking at the specifications, with the above in mind it seems like the best specifications will be achieved through: BAL->BAL, low gain, up to 6V line input?


----------



## Andykong

immortalsoul said:


> The difference here is that WA8 is as transportable/ portable and almost as versatile as Cayin C9 because WA8 has the option to change the sound by switching between two and three tubes,  the only thing missing is solid state but it also have a Dac. In the case of HA-6A that amp is not transportable by any means



Just curious, can you hear microphonic effect when you hold, shake or knock on WA8? The portability of an tube amplifier is not just size and weight, one of the difficult implementation is to eliminate microphonic caused by impact or vibration. 



xand said:


> Oh great.
> 
> The C9 is significantly better balanced (based on my zeus XR and two identical cables - one terminated with an oxyaide right angle 3.5 and the second with some unknown 4.4), enough so that I prefer 4.4 even though it hisses more than 3.5.
> 
> ...



If WA8 is transformer-coupled designed, so don't underestimate the power rating, 250mW@32Ω doesn't look impressive, but the real deal is the output transformer.


----------



## Joseph Lin

Andykong said:


> KORG Nutube is  identical to a triode tube electrically, so its a real tube from audio design point of view.  Unfortunately the current output is fairly weak and you cannot use it to drive a headphone or earphone directly, so we either use it as a tube buffer, or a hybrid design with Nutube as first amplification stage only, In either case, it is not a tube amplification all the way.   I have no idea if we can pair Nutube with a tube based second amplification stage, this should be theoretically possible, but I bet users will assume the "tubey" sound comes from the tube based second amplification stage anyway.


That makes sense. I can hear a hint of tubey sound but not as obvious as WA8. It adds some interesting flavor to the sound though.


----------



## twister6

aaf evo said:


> Man.... the sound coming from this combo is something I didn’t even know was possible from an IEM setup. This.. is.. stunning. Can’t wait to see how much more this can scale with a better LO (Lotoo paw 6000 pictured)



What LO voltage did you set in PAW6k Line Out setting?  You can have it "unfixed" so you can adjust with volume wheel when in Line mode (C9) or Pre-amp mode of C9, sort of like a pre-gain adjustment from the DAP.  Or you can set it fixed between 0.77Vrms, 1.2Vrms, 2Vrms, or 4Vrms when C9 is in Line mode.  But with higher LO voltage you might loose some headroom in C9 volume adjustment, so play around.  It was a lot of fun doing that, when you are in full control of all these adjustments 

And indeed, C9 takes Traillii to a whole new level.  When you think the birdie sounds 3D from any source, then you connect to C9 and it expands even further while adding more texture to the sound when Tubes/Class AB are on.


----------



## aaf evo (Apr 16, 2021)

twister6 said:


> What LO voltage did you set in PAW6k Line Out setting?  You can have it "unfixed" so you can adjust with volume wheel when in Line mode (C9) or Pre-amp mode of C9, sort of like a pre-gain adjustment from the DAP.  Or you can set it fixed between 0.77Vrms, 1.2Vrms, 2Vrms, or 4Vrms when C9 is in Line mode.  But with higher LO voltage you might loose some headroom in C9 volume adjustment, so play around.  It was a lot of fun doing that, when you are in full control of all these adjustments
> 
> And indeed, C9 takes Traillii to a whole new level.  When you think the birdie sounds 3D from any source, then you connect to C9 and it expands even further while adding more texture to the sound when Tubes/Class AB are on.



So i have the line out on +8.24dBu(2Vrms) and then the C9 volume wheel (low gain) about 10 o’clock. Class A mode Solid State.

Yeah, it was definitely one of those things that I was like... “How can the Traillii sound even larger and more open?” But here we are...


----------



## Andykong

DaYooper said:


> C9 here today. Tube, high gain, balanced in class A balanced out so far the Klipsch HP-3 sounds best out of three phones tried (Utopia, SR2, HP-3) with N6ii/A02 source. I'm guessin a little more than 60 minutes burn in needed but really good for now about 11:00 on the juice dial.



Great, so you can compare C9 vs HA-6A, and then draw a decision tree to tell us how should we make up our mind when we have $2000 to spare.   Looking forward to your sharing.


----------



## xand

Andykong said:


> If WA8 is transformer-coupled designed, so don't underestimate the power rating, 250mW@32Ω doesn't look impressive, but the real deal is the output transformer.



Yeah I'm seriously considering demoing it(!).

Or maybe just buying a cheap secondhand one.

The competitive set seems to only be the Analog Squared Paper TU-05 - which is almost definitely going to be a blind buy if I get it.


----------



## Andykong

decur said:


> I miss going to can jam,where you can go from table to table testing headphones and iems with your own amp/dap or both.



Yes, Yes, Yes, I used to attend 4 to 5 CanJam/Audio Shows per year, that become part of my life in past few years.     I really miss that.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Andykong said:


> Just curious, can you hear microphonic effect when you hold, shake or knock on WA8? The portability of an tube amplifier is not just size and weight, one of the difficult implementation is to eliminate microphonic caused by impact or vibration.
> 
> 
> 
> If WA8 is transformer-coupled designed, so don't underestimate the power rating, 250mW@32Ω doesn't look impressive, but the real deal is the output transformer.


As reported by some WA8 users, you will hear some tinkle sound when you touch/hit the exterior of WA8. I guess that is fine for most WA8 users since it is heavy and hot to be used on-the-go, but I can totally see it as a great complement to C9 in a desktop setup.


----------



## Andykong

bluestorm1992 said:


> Indeed, the improvement in imaging is so significant. Many users are shocked by that their TOTL IEMs can become even better, and the mid-tier IEM like the MEST can have such an incredible potential. Have to hear it to believe it.



MEST is a mid-tier IEM.  
Where I came from, IE800 was the TOTL flagship IEM.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Andykong said:


> MEST is a mid-tier IEM.
> Where I came from, IE800 was the TOTL flagship IEM.


After you get the bird, you get used to the idea that a mid-tier IEM is around $2000...


----------



## Andykong

bluestorm1992 said:


> I was looking for a 1DD IEM to complete my collection, and I got recommend this from the C9 user group: Etymotic ER2SE.
> 
> I got it today and after a couple of hours with it, I am really impressed by its synergy with C9. It is not just a value-for-money thing, it is simply REALLY good. Quite interestingly, pairing the ER2SE with SP2000 alone was not nearly as good as with C9. The music is way too soft and the bass is completely gone. People from the C9 user group told me that ER2SE require a lot of power and a very good amp to drive properly, and C9 turns out to be a really good match with it.
> 
> ...


 C9 user group didn't recommend Fantasy to you?  I must file a complaint about this. Hahahaha.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Andykong said:


> C9 user group didn't recommend Fantasy to you?  I must file a complaint about this. Hahahaha.


They did! Ask Andrew to stock it soon and I may buy one as well!


----------



## Andykong (Apr 16, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Has anyone tried to pair a DX160 + C9 and compare it either with DX300 + C9 or DX300 alone?    I am trying to get a sense of the sound quality of the DX160 in relation to the various pairings.    I just bought a DX160 to see if I like it better than my current R 6 2020 as a stand alone DAP and I am wondering how much improvement to the sound the C9 can do to the DX160.    As we wait for the dedicated Line Out module for the DX300, I thought I'd do some A/B testing of various pairings.
> 
> I forgot to mention, I am going to test the PEQ capabilities of the DX160, too.   I am finding that it's PEQ or bust.   I don't like any of the EQ variaents I've encountered like MSEB or genre specific EQ presets.



I can't comment on DX160 vs DX300 even with C9 in the formula, so let me use N3Pro + C9 vs N6ii + C9 vs N6ii to illustrate my observation.

When we develop budget-concerned DAP, we need to ...... inevitably cut some corners in order to deliver all the functions and yet remain at satisfactory performance level.  At audio circuitry level,  the three biggest cost items are digital, analog and power supply.  When we skim on digital, users will probably aware of that because a lot of them are quantifiable.  When we skim on analog (amplifier), users didn't pay that much attention other then rated output, and they are more accommodative,  so its easier to cut cost at this part.  Power supply can be the biggest different between an high performance DAP and a budget-concerned DAP, because most DAP didn't provide a lot of detail on Power Management design, so users probably won't know anything about that.

Base on these assumptions, adding C9 to budget-concerned DAP such as A3Pro will provide bigger impact/improvement than adding C9 to high performance DAP such as N6ii.  This is particularly true if the budget-concerned DAP has a real line out feature that by pass the headphone amp circuit completely  (and hence removed the cut-corner factor), and leave more power supply headroom to the digital audio circuit.

WOW, 200 pages ...  the pace of C9 thread is really impressive.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Andykong said:


> I can't comment on DX160 vs DX300 even with C9 in the formula, so let me use N3Pro + C9 vs N6ii + C9 vs N6ii to illustrate my observation.
> 
> When we develop budget-concerned DAP, we need to ...... inevitably cut some corners in order to deliver all the functions and yet remain at satisfactory performance level.  At audio circuitry level,  the three biggest cost items are digital, analog and power supply.  When we skim on digital, users will probably aware of that because a lot of them are quantifiable.  When we skim on analog (amplifier), users didn't pay that much attention other then rated output, and they are more accommodative,  so its easier to cut cost at this part.  Power supply can be the biggest different between an high performance DAP and a budget-concerned DAP, because most DAP didn't provide a lot of detail on Power Management design, so users probably won't know anything about that.
> 
> ...


Thanks.   I was hoping that would be true.   I appreciate the technical detail too.


----------



## Andykong

xand said:


> It's okay to use the C9 portably, in a bag - although I would suggest avoiding tube/A. I'm doing it right now.
> 
> WA8 is hilarious, the user manual says: "Do not use the amplifier in a bag".
> 
> ...



Work in progress by a friend (i.e., not Cayin),  Early prototype stage only, so please stay tune.


----------



## Andykong

lucasratmundo said:


> Tried TT2+M-Scaler with the C9 in line-in vs pre-in mode today and I actually prefer line-in. In pre-in, bass gets a bit too bloomy for me. Z1R with Tube and Class A from TT2 line-in is _great_.



Is this your regular source for C9?  This is exotic.  Maybe I should raise my expectation to  this community and expect a Dave + C9 as the next milestone.


----------



## Andykong

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> how can you tell the difference between real pre-out and fake pre-out vs. real line out vs. fake line out?    Some times the jacks are the same.



I have written some basic explanation on line out and pre-out* HERE*.


----------



## Andykong

Currawong said:


> You don't need to put the Hugo 2 in 3v output mode -- just adjust the volume to whatever level is suitable for the C9. With some devices that don't use a volume control on the input (but after a gain stage) you can overload them sending out 3V and you'll get worse sound quality.
> 
> With high-end IEMs and headphones, you'll start to notice differences in interconnects. I tend to say that something better than basic made by one of the cable companies/people here will do the job nicely.
> 
> ...



Some desktop DAC offers Pre-amp "mode" but in fact it is only a digital attenuator that lower the output level of DAC line out, there is no voltage gain in the pre-amp function, only attenuation.  The original Cayin iDAC-6 is an example of this, and I called that pseudo pre-amp output when I explain the feature to users at CanJam and Audio Shows.


----------



## Kiats

The FitEar DC is a hybrid custom with 2 Fostex 9mm dynamic drivers with one EST tweeter. It is not easy to drive. Common complaints is that it is dark. Actually when run out of sufficiently powerful DAPs and here out of the C9 on high gain, the FitEar DC really soars with a really 3D soundstage. It has a nice deep layered soundstage. Line in from the FiiO M15 upsampling the QQ Music stream to DSD. Eletech Illiad cable from @Eric Chong. Saturday morning listening.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Kiats said:


> The FitEar DC is a hybrid custom with 2 Fostex 9mm dynamic drivers with one EST tweeter. It is not easy to drive. Common complaints is that it is dark. Actually when run out of sufficiently powerful DAPs and here out of the C9 on high gain, the FitEar DC really soars with a really 3D soundstage. It has a nice deep layered soundstage. Line in from the FiiO M15 upsampling the QQ Music stream to DSD. Eletech Illiad cable from @Eric Chong. Saturday morning listening.


Wonderful setup! Happy weekend listening.


----------



## michaelc

Andykong said:


> Work in progress by a friend (i.e., not Cayin),  Early prototype stage only, so please stay tune.


Hope it's a 2 separate compartment with adjustable height for DAP


----------



## Andykong

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Dude, go for it.     You have the best AMPs in the market.   You have no idea what is in store for you.   The MEST MKII is just the first step in a long journey toward sonic bliss.  With that purchase, you are just scratching the surface of what is possible with IEMs.
> 
> Next, you need to try a ZMF Verite Closed with that Primaluna EVO 400.


 He need to try a ZMF Vérité Closed with Cayin HA-300.    

At $3999, the HA-300 offers the 300B dream tube and outboard power supply,  definitely the tube headphone amplifier to check out if someone is looking for an amplifier at this price range.


----------



## Hanyong

Give c9 a thumbs up, as a portable amplifier, it has enough power to drive HEDDphone.


----------



## Andykong

zen87192 said:


> Received my ISN USB Type - C to 4.4mm today.Wow! This is a quality item. Box and presentation is very good for a small low cost I.C.
> I have this as a back up so I can connect my mobile phone to the C9. Just connected it and crikey! That's a sound I wasn't expecting! Playing through Tidal (am aware it will be straight through, no MQA unfolding etc) on the phone to the C9 on High Gain, Solid State, AB...
> It's amazing! This C9 can do nothing wrong! WOW!



This is interesting, something I have in mind since I brainstorm C9 marketing plan.  Let's hope there will be a mini DAC/Amp with "real" line out down the road, that's my dream DAC/Amp dongle for mobile phone.


----------



## Andykong

zen87192 said:


> On another aspect. Do you think I can use this Rechargeable Battery to charge the C9? It's technically a Jump Start Vehicle Backup, but as you can see it has USB sockets, and if you see the detailed outputs on the back, I think it could be used. Any thoughts please?



This should work, but apparently this Rechargeable battery don't support  QC3.0, so it will be very slow when you want to charge up the C9.


----------



## Andykong

zen87192 said:


> Had a bit of a panic last night when using the C9 over many hours to sample what it has to offer. Battery life was extremely good but towards the end of battery life I found it a bit confusing. Those battery indicator lights seemed to have a life of their own and 'updated' only when the unit was switched off then back on. 'Updates' via the battery lights didn't seem to be true whilst in operation. My unit arrived fully charged in a sealed box and lasted just over 12 hours playing music and left on stand by! Not bad on the first run using a combo of settings! The lights began to disappear down to one, in a very short space of time, then the unit didn't switch on. Obviously,  I'm presuming very low battery power, so the unit may have refused to operate for protection? I recharged and it is now turning back on, displaying all battery lights and working. So today, I will run another series of listening sessions and keep an eye on the battery status including turning the C9 on and off and various intervals to see what happens.
> Anybody else encountering battery issues or performance related things?



If this is  your brand new C9 and you are still in the first charging cycle, maybe the situation will get better after several rounds of charging?  Capacity estimation of new Lithium batteries can have a very big error margin.


----------



## Andykong

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I thought that might be the case, but on Amazon there are a ton of cables from RCA to 4.4mm
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/4-4mm-Balanc...1&keywords=rca+to+4.4mm&qid=1617548621&sr=8-3


 
These cables are legitimate if use it to convert 4.4mm output to 2x RCA single-ended IF the original 4.4mm socket is grounded, and definitely not recommended to use it the other way round.  If anyone bought this type of cable, please label the 4.4mm connector as Source or Input clearly.


----------



## Andykong

bluestorm1992 said:


> @Andykong we want the battery trays!



Soon... looks like my promise to release the battery tray within April is still on track.


----------



## Andykong

aaf evo said:


> Interesting , so if running SE on one side it’s best if possible to use SE for the other, and same with balanced?



Yes, if you care about audio performance to that level that you perform AB comparison to check out the different, you should do that.   The SE/BAL conversion is convenient, but that is not a lossless  conversion.   The implication to tube modes are smaller, but still meaningful IMHO.



xand said:


> Wow thanks for this - never noticed.
> 
> Looking at the specifications, with the above in mind it seems like the best specifications will be achieved through: BAL->BAL, low gain, up to 6V line input?



Not surprised, most users will only check out the rated output from the specification table.  

These are my recommendations:

BAL-> BAL is the best, SE -> SE is also very good and better then SE-> BAL, so don't assume BAL output is always better.
Always stick with low gain unless your input source is less then 2V SE or 4V Balanced and you have a fairly difficult so you need the extra 6dB headphone from high gain.  
Input sensitivity tells you the rated input level required to achieve rated power output.  Do you notice the high gain and low gain of C9 are having the same power rating?  While the amplification circuit can deliver that power, the input level might stop you from getting there, that's where input sensitivity comes into play.  At High-gain, you only need 3V in Balanced line in to achieve the max rated power, but you need 6V when you switch to low gain.  This does not affect the Dynamic range or SNR, but it will affect headroom of your playback, so this depends on the headphone loading.


----------



## Andykong

Joseph Lin said:


> That makes sense. I can hear a hint of tubey sound but not as obvious as WA8. It adds some interesting flavor to the sound though.



The tube implication is bigger than a tube buffer, but less than a full-tube implementation.


----------



## Andykong (Apr 17, 2021)

xand said:


> Yeah I'm seriously considering demoing it(!).
> 
> Or maybe just buying a cheap secondhand one.
> 
> The competitive set seems to only be the Analog Squared Paper TU-05 - which is almost definitely going to be a blind buy if I get it.



As an audiophile, I definitely recommend a thorough audition if you like C9 and has prepared your system around a "high performance portable headphone amplifier".  The C9 are WA8 have their own merit, they probably belong to the same product category but offers a very different total package.


----------



## Andykong

bluestorm1992 said:


> As reported by some WA8 users, you will hear some tinkle sound when you touch/hit the exterior of WA8. I guess that is fine for most WA8 users since it is heavy and hot to be used on-the-go, but I can totally see it as a great complement to C9 in a desktop setup.



Thank you for your information.  So this can be a deal breaker if mobility is a concern.  I guess COVID-19 has locked us in our house and changed our pattern of life, mobility is not really an issue as long as it is transportable.


----------



## Andykong (Apr 17, 2021)

Hanyong said:


> Give c9 a thumbs up, as a portable amplifier, it has enough power to drive HEDDphone.


Finally someone comes up with a HEDDphone + C9 impression.    
I was being conservative about this combo, glad to have someone prove me wrong.


----------



## Andykong

For those who are looking for a high quality closed back headphone to pair with C9 on-the-go, Kennerton has announced a closed back planar *ROGNIR* that might fit the bill.  Rated at 42 Ohm and 100dB, this should well within the reach of C9.  I have used Kennerton Odin and Thror to demonstrate Cayin amplifiers in many shows and events, including the Taipei Headphone Festival 2020 last November when we debut C9 internationally.   The synergy between Cayin and Kennerton are among the best and I have a lot of faith that Rognir will work well with C9.   Unfortunately I can't check out this combo in person until the CanJam or audio shows will resume.  If you happen to live in a city where Kennerton demo is available, please bring your C9 to the shop and give it a try, and then come back to share your impression with us.


----------



## Hanyong

Andykong said:


> For those who are looking for a high quality closed back headphone to pair with C9 on-the-go, Kennerton has announced a closed back planar *ROGNIR* that might fit the bill.  Rated at 42 Ohm and 100dB, this should well within the reach of C9.  I have used Kennerton Odin and Thror to demonstrate Cayin amplifiers in many shows and events, including the Taipei Headphone Festival 2020 last November when we debut C9 internationally.   The synergy between Cayin and Kennerton are among the best and I have a lot of faith that Rognir will work well with C9.   Unfortunately I can't check out this combo in person until the CanJam or audio shows will resume.  If you happen to live in a city where Kennerton demo is available, please bring your C9 to the shop and give it a try, and then come back to share your impression with us.


Wow, tomorrow I may go to zeppelin to test the combination of adx5000 and c9, I will try odin thorr if I have the opportunity.


----------



## xand

Hanyong said:


> Wow, tomorrow I may go to zeppelin to test the combination of adx5000 and c9, I will try odin thorr if I have the opportunity.


You should try the verite open/closed and rad-0 too...


----------



## Hanyong (Apr 17, 2021)

。


----------



## Hanyong

xand said:


> You should try the verite open/closed and rad-0 too...


Okay, I will try it together if there is enough time.👌


----------



## lucasratmundo

Andykong said:


> Is this your regular source for C9?  This is exotic.  Maybe I should raise my expectation to  this community and expect a Dave + C9 as the next milestone.


High expectations indeed Actually, I use SP2000+C9 as my transportable bedside/living room system most of the time. I only use TT2+C9 when I want to use my IEMs by my desk because why not?


----------



## Andykong

Hanyong said:


> Wow, tomorrow I may go to zeppelin to test the combination of adx5000 and c9, I will try odin thorr if I have the opportunity.


This should be an interesting cross comparison, but I am not sure if Zepp carries Kennerton right now.


----------



## Hanyong

Andykong said:


> This should be an interesting cross comparison, but I am not sure if Zepp carries Kennerton right now.


I also saw the two headsets sold on its website. Tomorrow I will ask to see if there are any prototypes for trial listening.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 17, 2021)

I got so into the synergy between DD IEMs and C9 from using Dunu EST 112 and Etymotic ER2SE that I think I will have to try out then new flagship from the collaboration between Dita and Final. 🤤

Too bad that I sold my Dita XLS almost at the time I acquired C9. Now, I shall be able to re-analyze C9’s impact on DD drivers.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> I got so into the synergy between DD IEMs and C9 from using Dunu EST 112 and Etymotic ER2SE that I think I will have to try out then new flagship from the collaboration between Dita and Final. 🤤
> 
> Too bad that I sold my Dita XLS almost at the time I acquired C9. Now, I shall be able to re-analyze C9’s impact on DD drivers.


I did something similar when I purchased a Unique Melody 3DT.  It's a 3 dynamic driver IEM that has great tonality for those who love DD timbre.    The issue with it, though its that it does not scale up as well as I hoped.  I'll try it with my C9 to see what it does.    It just arrived, but I am not home to try it.


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I did something similar when I purchased a Unique Melody 3DT.  It's a 3 dynamic driver IEM that has great tonality for those who love DD timbre.    The issue with it, though its that it does not scale up as well as I hoped.  I'll try it with my C9 to see what it does.    It just arrived, but I am not home to try it.


From the two DD IEMs I have tried, they both have mediocre performance with SP2000. In fact, the ER2SE is not much better than my iPhone stock IEMs there... BUT, both of them jump several leagues with C9 and I was so surprised.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Andykong said:


> I can't comment on DX160 vs DX300 even with C9 in the formula, so let me use N3Pro + C9 vs N6ii + C9 vs N6ii to illustrate my observation.
> 
> When we develop budget-concerned DAP, we need to ...... inevitably cut some corners in order to deliver all the functions and yet remain at satisfactory performance level.  At audio circuitry level,  the three biggest cost items are digital, analog and power supply.  When we skim on digital, users will probably aware of that because a lot of them are quantifiable.  When we skim on analog (amplifier), users didn't pay that much attention other then rated output, and they are more accommodative,  so its easier to cut cost at this part.  Power supply can be the biggest different between an high performance DAP and a budget-concerned DAP, because most DAP didn't provide a lot of detail on Power Management design, so users probably won't know anything about that.
> 
> ...


I just got my DX160 and iBasso has made the right technical trade offs for my needs.   I am very very happy with it.    

Here's why:

It's cheap, it's light weight and it sounds great.    Those features make it a great solution for walking around the house.    If I want to get higher end desktop sound, I can pair it with the C9 and I believe it will be stellar.   I'll find out in 2 weeks when I meet up with my C9 that just arrived.    I don't know if the DX160 has a true line out.  I honestly still don't fully understand what that is.   I will find out soon enough.

The battery does not last that long.   My guess is that one of the reasons why it is so light is because the battery is small (3-4 hours max).    But, for a few hour listening session, this is fine because its weight is so perfect for walking around.

I A/B tested the DX160 against my iPhone + W2.   I'd say that the iPhone + W2 may be 3-5% better because the bass the digs a little bit deeper and has slightly better clarity.  But to me the big picture is that they are equivalently good.   Great sound.

The wifi is terrible as using Tidal, many tracks wouldn't play at all.    Evidently, this is a known problem with the DX160 that I didn't know until I tried it.   But, I was able to solve it by downloading music to a micro SD card.

The PEQ features require use of the Mango player.  So, I will need to download some music to do that.   Slightly disappointed that it isn't system wide.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> From the two DD IEMs I have tried, they both have mediocre performance with SP2000. In fact, the ER2SE is not much better than my iPhone stock IEMs there... BUT, both of them jump several leagues with C9 and I was so surprised.


This gives me hope.


----------



## Kiats

bluestorm1992 said:


> I got so into the synergy between DD IEMs and C9 from using Dunu EST 112 and Etymotic ER2SE that I think I will have to try out then new flagship from the collaboration between Dita and Final. 🤤
> 
> Too bad that I sold my Dita XLS almost at the time I acquired C9. Now, I shall be able to re-analyze C9’s impact on DD drivers.



Yes, it looks really gorgeous. Though someone I know who also owns the A8000 tired it yesterday and described it as the A8000 with warmer cables. He didn’t seem to think it was a compelling buy if you already have the A8000. That would be disappointing since the Dita x Final was supposed to be tuned to be more relaxed as compared to the A8000.


----------



## Kiats

bluestorm1992 said:


> From the two DD IEMs I have tried, they both have mediocre performance with SP2000. In fact, the ER2SE is not much better than my iPhone stock IEMs there... BUT, both of them jump several leagues with C9 and I was so surprised.



Agree with @bluestorm1992 : there is lots of chatter about how the SP2000 has enough driving power for DD and full sized cans. Whilst it is certainly more powerful than the SP1000, the reason why I have in the past year picked up DAPs like M15 or DX3000 is because they drive DDs so much better. They now scale up even more with portable amps like the C9 (as well as the Phatlab Chimera). The soundstage opens up and the nuances are much more evident. Heck! The A8000 sounds so rich with the DX300 and even more so with portable amps like the C9. In fact, that’s one of the reasons why I found the Phatlab RASA so attractive - it comes with a 4.4mm socket so I can run my IEMs out on low gain.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Kiats said:


> Yes, it looks really gorgeous. Though someone I know who also owns the A8000 tired it yesterday and described it as the A8000 with warmer cables. He didn’t seem to think it was a compelling buy if you already have the A8000. That would be disappointing since the Dita x Final was supposed to be tuned to be more relaxed as compared to the A8000.


That must be from Eddie right?   Since I don’t own A8000 and have always wanted to get one, maybe it is a great time for me to get this.



Kiats said:


> Agree with @bluestorm1992 : there is lots of chatter about how the SP2000 has enough driving power for DD and full sized cans. Whilst it is certainly more powerful than the SP1000, the reason why I have in the past year picked up DAPs like M15 or DX3000 is because they drive DDs so much better. They now scale up even more with portable amps like the C9 (as well as the Phatlab Chimera). The soundstage opens up and the nuances are much more evident. Heck! The A8000 sounds so rich with the DX300 and even more so with portable amps like the C9. In fact, that’s one of the reasons why I found the Phatlab RASA so attractive - it comes with a 4.4mm socket so I can run my IEMs out on low gain.


Indeed, sometimes people look at the DAP output power numbers and question the need for an external amp. The only thing I can say is they need to try it to believe it.


----------



## Kiats

bluestorm1992 said:


> That must be from Eddie right?   Since I don’t own A8000 and have always wanted to get one, maybe it is a great time for me to get this.
> 
> 
> Indeed, sometimes people look at the DAP output power numbers and question the need for an external amp. The only thing I can say is they need to try it to believe it.



Yup yup! Eddie had a listen when the DITA folks invited him for a session. He actually posted his views on his FB page. Haha! Yes, now that you have the C9, it is time to ponder the A8000 (though do get the balanced cable with the 4.4mm plug) . Another option, the Phatlab Chimera, also sings with the A8000 especially on the tube side. I agree with Eddie that the A8000 is so transparent you get to enjoy the flavours of the source and the amplification.

Indeed. Yes, adequate and full potential are sometimes quite far apart. But that’s the wonderful thing about this hobby, isn’t it? As long as we enjoy what we have or want, that is good.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 18, 2021)

For anyone who is interested, the C9 leather case is pretty good. Seems to help with heat dissipation.

I am not doing any rigorous temperature measurement, but from my daily use of tube + class A, I can surely confirm that C9 with the case does NOT get hotter than using it without the case. If anything, I actually feel it to be cooler with the case... One key reason I have found is that the case creates a space between C9 and my table so it helps the heat dissipation from the back of C9 very much.

@nimorose maybe you can consider getting the case as well.


----------



## Trunkmonkey44

For connecting AK SP2000 to the C9, what is the difference between using something like the Effect Audio 4.4mm AK adapter or a Penon Totem 2.5mm to 4.4 cable for line out? I can currently do the 2.5mm to 4.4mm, but see others using the adapter that uses both 3.5mm and 2.5mm on the dap.


----------



## xand

Trunkmonkey44 said:


> For connecting AK SP2000 to the C9, what is the difference between using something like the Effect Audio 4.4mm AK adapter or a Penon Totem 2.5mm to 4.4 cable for line out? I can currently do the 2.5mm to 4.4mm, but see others using the adapter that uses both 3.5mm and 2.5mm on the dap.


It provides a grounded 4.4mm output which could be a good thing. 

Probably unnecessary as long as your interconnect is short.


----------



## Trunkmonkey44

xand said:


> It provides a grounded 4.4mm output which could be a good thing.
> 
> Probably unnecessary as long as your interconnect is short.



Makes sense, thanks.


----------



## Hanyong




----------



## Hanyong




----------



## Hanyong




----------



## greenmac

Great photos

How is the synergy of the C9 with the Kennerton ?


----------



## Hanyong

greenmac said:


> Great photos
> 
> How is the synergy of the C9 with the Kennerton ?


The favorite of the three combinations is the most full and three-dimensional. The first one I tried was adx5k. The sound was thin, and there was no problem with the bright and partial resolution mentioned in the evaluation. The sound was not so three-dimensional. The second one I tried was thorr. , I was attracted by the sound.


----------



## Hanyong

It is indeed a good match.👍


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 18, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> For anyone who is interested, the C9 leather case is pretty good. Seems to help with heat dissipation.
> 
> I am not doing any rigorous temperature measurement, but from my daily use of tube + class A, I can surely confirm that C9 with the case does NOT get hotter than using it without the case. If anything, I actually feel it to be cooler with the case... One key reason I have found is that the case creates a space between C9 and my table so it helps the heat dissipation from the back of C9 very much.
> 
> @nimorose maybe you can consider getting the case as well.


Honestly speaking, even with the heat sinks I have on mine now, class A tubes don’t get much cooled.  I am skeptical that the case helps that much since it covers everywhere and barely some cut outs for ventilations without thermal tapes/paste.  The case look beautiful though, and if you are using it with Class AB SS, it should be fine

I don’t think you can judge if by touching the case because of the leather, you will feel that it is not heating up as much, but in fact they are trapped inside.  Try turning it on class A tube for 3 hours continuously and then taken it out of the case and touch it.  That will tell you the real story ?


----------



## gazzington

Andykong said:


> MEST is a mid-tier IEM.
> Where I came from, IE800 was the TOTL flagship IEM.


Lol you and me both. I still use the ie800s a lot. Sounds great plus comfortable


----------



## orifiel

Andykong said:


> Cayin has provided a fairly detail functional diagram, you can figure out the optimum burn in setting:
> 
> 
> Input selection: that is a switching circuit, no need to burn in.
> ...


Hi!!

Can i use this cable to connect the balanced to the AUX port of an active speaker (Klipsch One) and do the burn in in this manner?




or this Balanced to unbalanced cable do any harm to the amplifier or the speaker?

I think that going from unbalanced to balanced is harmful but i don’t know the other way around...🤔🤔


----------



## fiascogarcia (Apr 18, 2021)

Another satisfied customer!  Mr. Walkman's custom firmware was quite a game changer for me with the WM-1Z sound signature, and now to be able to enhance the dynamics of that sound with little coloration, the C9 is just what the doctor ordered.  The C9 adds air, detail, soundstage, and a sub bass punchiness that the DAP alone doesn't quite achieve.  The C9 is quite a gem, and a really versatile little amp!


----------



## bluestorm1992

fiascogarcia said:


> Another satisfied customer!  Mr. Walkman's custom firmware was quite a game changer for me with the WM-1Z sound signature, and now to be able to enhance the dynamics of that sound with little coloration, the C9 is just what the doctor ordered.  The C9 adds air, detail, soundstage, and a sub bass punchiness that the DAP alone doesn't quite achieve.  The C9 is quite a gem, and a really versatile little amp!


Congrats! Lovely gears you have!


----------



## Andykong

Kiats said:


> Yup yup! Eddie had a listen when the DITA folks invited him for a session. He actually posted his views on his FB page. Haha! Yes, now that you have the C9, it is time to ponder the A8000 (though do get the balanced cable with the 4.4mm plug) . Another option, the Phatlab Chimera, also sings with the A8000 especially on the tube side. I agree with Eddie that the A8000 is so transparent you get to enjoy the flavours of the source and the amplification.
> 
> Indeed. Yes, adequate and full potential are sometimes quite far apart. But that’s the wonderful thing about this hobby, isn’t it? As long as we enjoy what we have or want, that is good.



From logic deduction point of view, those who heard the full potential (or at lest something significantly better) and then comment this is adequate to him/her, then that is very like what it means, adequate.  Those who didn't heard better and then claim this is adequate, that is likely a speculation only.


----------



## Andykong

Hanyong said:


> The favorite of the three combinations is the most full and three-dimensional. The first one I tried was adx5k. The sound was thin, and there was no problem with the bright and partial resolution mentioned in the evaluation. The sound was not so three-dimensional. The second one I tried was thorr. , I was attracted by the sound.





Hanyong said:


> It is indeed a good match.👍



The Odin with stabilized wood looks fantastic.  

ADX5K is 420 Ohm if I remember it right, maybe the high impedance loading become a bottleneck.  Glad  you like the Kennerton and Cayin synergy, they really are good match to each other, unfortunately we don't have a lot of chance to work together closely.

Just out of curiosity, which one do you prefer between Odin and Thror?


----------



## Andykong (Apr 4, 2022)

orifiel said:


> Hi!!
> 
> Can i use this cable to connect the balanced to the AUX port of an active speaker (Klipsch One) and do the burn in in this manner?
> 
> ...



Not sure if I understand it correctly.  That is an 4.4mm male to 2.5mm female adapter, and then you have a 2.5mm balanced to 3.5mm custom make cable?  I don't think this is going to work because the 4.4mm to 2.5mm adapter has lifted the ground connection, and I can't see how you can achieve a 3.5mm stream out of 2.5mm balanced unless you use the L- or R- as ground, this is not something I can recommend.  In fact I'll describe that as dangerous attempt.


If your objective is to burn in the C9 fully balanced amplification circuit, you need to engage all four terminations (L+, L-, R+, R-) with loading, there is no way you can achieve that with a 3.5mm connection.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Andykong said:


> The Odin with stabilized wood looks fantastic.


I just ordered a Custom LX with stabilized wood.   Can't wait to see it.   Really hope is sounds good with the C9.


----------



## bigbeans

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I just ordered a Custom LX with stabilized wood.   Can't wait to see it.   Really hope is sounds good with the C9.


Congrats!! LX is really a supreme IEM, nothing else like it. Custom is really nice too with those exotic materials. Once you pair LX with Traillii, you've got the end game combo imho.


----------



## orifiel

Andykong said:


> Not sure if I understand it correctly.  That is an 4.4mm male to 2.5mm female adapter, and then you have a 2.5mm balanced to 3.5mm custom make cable?  I don't think this is going to work because the 4.4mm to 2.5mm adapter has lifted the ground connection, and I can't see how you can achieve a 3.5mm stream out of 32.5mm balanced unless you use the L- or R- as ground, this is not something I can recommend.  In fact I'll describe that as dangerous attempt.
> 
> 
> If your objective is to burn in the C9 fully balanced amplification circuit, you need to engage all four terminations (L+, L-, R+, R-) with loading, there is no way you can achieve that with a 3.5mm connection.



ok, thanks for the explanation...

then i have this:
N8 connected to C9 via line out 4,4mm, C9 in line mode, high gain, AB tube mode, and 3,5 aux cable (unbalanced) conected to my speaker...
With this i burn in only the tubes and SE output, and i need different burn in for balanced mode?


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bigbeans said:


> Congrats!! LX is really a supreme IEM, nothing else like it. Custom is really nice too with those exotic materials. Once you pair LX with Traillii, you've got the end game combo imho.


lalalalala......   I can't hear you.     Lalalalalalaa.     I didn't hear what you just said.    lalalalalaala.........

Don't get me in trouble.


----------



## bluestorm1992

The bird is singing and watching. 🎶


----------



## xand

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I just ordered a Custom LX with stabilized wood.   Can't wait to see it.   Really hope is sounds good with the C9.



Wait. That's some new option right?! It's not on the EE website? The stabilized wood looks like the JH wood stuff?!

Any photos?!


----------



## bigbeans

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> lalalalala......   I can't hear you.     Lalalalalalaa.     I didn't hear what you just said.    lalalalalaala.........
> 
> Don't get me in trouble.


Price is going up to 6600 in May...

just saying


----------



## Andykong

orifiel said:


> ok, thanks for the explanation...
> 
> then i have this:
> N8 connected to C9 via line out 4,4mm, C9 in line mode, high gain, AB tube mode, and 3,5 aux cable (unbalanced) conected to my speaker...
> With this i burn in only the tubes and SE output, and i need different burn in for balanced mode?



Correct, but you can switch between tube and Solid state during the burn in period, that will allow you to burn in the tube and SS of SE output.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

xand said:


> Wait. That's some new option right?! It's not on the EE website? The stabilized wood looks like the JH wood stuff?!
> 
> Any photos?!


It's not a new option.  It's a custom custom.   One of a kind.

I'll post a picture when I get it in June.


----------



## asifur

Andykong said:


> *Cayin C9: TOTL Portable Headphone Amplifier*
> 
> Cayin was founded in 1993 and is one of the largest audio tube amplifier development and manufacturing facilities in the world.  We have developed over 400 products to date, ranging from CD players to speakers, all of which provide the same high-quality benchmark, but our amplifiers have been particularly well-received within the audio community.  That's why when we venture into Personal Audio back in 2013, we started with C5, a portable headphone amplifier, because amplifier is always our purest achievement.
> 
> ...


really nice!


----------



## Hanyong

Andykong said:


> The Odin with stabilized wood looks fantastic.
> 
> ADX5K is 420 Ohm if I remember it right, maybe the high impedance loading become a bottleneck.  Glad  you like the Kennerton and Cayin synergy, they really are good match to each other, unfortunately we don't have a lot of chance to work together closely.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, which one do you prefer between Odin and Thror?


I haven't tried odin due to lack of time. I will try it next time I have a chance. Damn now I am wondering if I want to buy Thror.🤦


----------



## tawmizzzz (Apr 19, 2021)

New toys! Reminder to self: don’t sleep in to nurse a hangover on a rainy Saturday morning when a Musicteck package is expected to arrive.

By the time my delirious self found flip flops to run downstairs, UPS man said bye bye. Had to wait 53 hours (who’s counting?) due to business day to pick it up officially


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 19, 2021)

Edit: *gone*


----------



## CANiSLAYu

One more new member of the family here as well. Patiently waiting for a full charge.


----------



## bluestorm1992

CANiSLAYu said:


> One more new member of the family here as well. Patiently waiting for a full charge.


Congrats and welcome to the club! Have you tried the sound of it yet?


----------



## DaYooper

CANiSLAYu said:


> One more new member of the family here as well. Patiently waiting for a full charge.


Could someone kindly remind me how to get one of those nice little rack things?


----------



## Nostoi

DaYooper said:


> Could someone kindly remind me how to get one of those nice little rack things?


The above looks like a slightly larger version, but here's one - https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B07NDRD2PT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## zen87192

Whitigir said:


> If anyone want an *endgame* 4.4-4.4 Interconnect with Goldplated silver wires.  Let me know.  I have one that is laying around



Yes please!


----------



## DaYooper

Nostoi said:


> The above looks like a slightly larger version, but here's one - https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B07NDRD2PT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Thank You. Done


----------



## Zambu (Apr 20, 2021)

Joining the C9 crew! Got mine yesterday and very impressed this morning with my listening sessions. So far I've been using N3Pro from 4.4. LO, Thieaudio Clairvoyance and at C9 end tubes at Class A. I do have some settings (such as pre-mode) and gear to test, but most importantly I just want to listen to my library of great music   Looking forward to many years with this hot brick and also interesting to read about synergies with IEMs, DAPs etc.

Took a while with the shipment... of course the few weeks of pre-order wait was expected (could have been more), but the package spent three weeks on the way (mostly just inefficient customs/post at my end and the Easter holidays). Here's an accurate depiction of the last couple of weeks of wait time:


Spoiler


----------



## bluestorm1992

Zambu said:


> Joining the C9 crew! Got mine yesterday and very impressed this morning with my listening sessions. So far I've been using N3Pro from 4.4. LO, Thieaudio Clairvoyance and at C9 end tubes at Class A. I do have some settings (such as pre-mode) and gear to test, but most importantly I just want to listen to my library of great music   Looking forward to many years with this hot brick and also interesting to read about synergies with IEMs, DAPs etc.
> 
> Took a while with the shipment... of course the few weeks of pre-order wait was expected (could have been more), but the package spent three weeks on the way (mostly just inefficient customs/post at my end and the Easter holidays). Here's an accurate depiction of the last couple of weeks of wait time:
> 
> ...


Congrats and welcome to the club!


----------



## Zambu

The C9 seems to fit really well in the DDHifi case 2019 ( https://www.headphonesty.com/2019/10/review-ddhifi-carry-case-c-2019/ ). Of course, now I need to find another case for the DAPs and stuff...anyway, anyone with both the C9 leather case and that DDHifi 2019 to say if C9 still fits with case on?


----------



## bluestorm1992

Zambu said:


> The C9 seems to fit really well in the DDHifi case 2019 ( https://www.headphonesty.com/2019/10/review-ddhifi-carry-case-c-2019/ ). Of course, now I need to find another case for the DAPs and stuff...anyway, anyone with both the C9 leather case and that DDHifi 2019 to say if C9 still fits with case on?


Will check for you later today.


----------



## Jeffyue

Zambu said:


> The C9 seems to fit really well in the DDHifi case 2019 ( https://www.headphonesty.com/2019/10/review-ddhifi-carry-case-c-2019/ ). Of course, now I need to find another case for the DAPs and stuff...anyway, anyone with both the C9 leather case and that DDHifi 2019 to say if C9 still fits with case on?


I prefer the ifi itraveler which gives a bit more space for IC.  I tried to put my C9 in the DDHifi 2019, but cannot close the cover if I put a couple of IC in the pocket.


----------



## lumdicks (Apr 20, 2021)

C9 scales up amazingly with the source. I have paired my Chord Hugo TT2 under preamp mode to C9 with Pre In, and the result is astonishing! TT2 is a powerful headphone amp by itself with transparent and neutral sound but with C9 under Tube A mode, the overall improvement is surprisingly obvious with more holographic soundstage, better control and wonderful dynamics, while the Chord signature sound is well preserved.

Roon --> Lumin U1 Mini (Transport) --> Chord Hugo TT2 (Dac and Preamp) --> Cayin C9 (power amp) --> Focal Stellia = Heaven of Music


----------



## bluestorm1992

lumdicks said:


> C9 scales up amazingly with the source. I have paired my Chord Hugo TT2 under preamp mode to C9 with Pre In, and the result is astonishing! TT2 is a powerful headphone amp by itself with transparent and neutral sound but with C9 under Tube A mode, the overall improvement is surprisingly obvious with more holographic soundstage, better control and wonderful dynamics, while the Chord signature sound is well preserved.
> 
> Roon --> Lumin U1 Mini (Transport) --> Chord Hugo TT2 (Dac and Preamp) --> Cayin C9 (power amp) --> Focal Stellia = Heaven of Music


Congrats on the new toy!! Amazing setup and pic from you as always.

Hmm, a new toy again, and we haven’t reached May.


----------



## Hanyong

lumdicks said:


> C9 scales up amazingly with the source. I have paired my Chord Hugo TT2 under preamp mode to C9 with Pre In, and the result is astonishing! TT2 is a powerful headphone amp by itself with transparent and neutral sound but with C9 under Tube A mode, the overall improvement is surprisingly obvious with more holographic soundstage, better control and wonderful dynamics, while the Chord signature sound is well preserved.
> 
> Roon --> Lumin U1 Mini (Transport) --> Chord Hugo TT2 (Dac and Preamp) --> Cayin C9 (power amp) --> Focal Stellia = Heaven of Music


I think so too, c9 should be more compatible with desktop decoders, not limited to dap.


----------



## Whitigir

lumdicks said:


> C9 scales up amazingly with the source. I have paired my Chord Hugo TT2 under preamp mode to C9 with Pre In, and the result is astonishing! TT2 is a powerful headphone amp by itself with transparent and neutral sound but with C9 under Tube A mode, the overall improvement is surprisingly obvious with more holographic soundstage, better control and wonderful dynamics, while the Chord signature sound is well preserved.
> 
> Roon --> Lumin U1 Mini (Transport) --> Chord Hugo TT2 (Dac and Preamp) --> Cayin C9 (power amp) --> Focal Stellia = Heaven of Music


I agree about the sources and the scaling! The power of the C9 is huge! For the form factors


----------



## lumdicks

It drives my Stellia to its full potential and I have heard the best from it with C9.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Perhaps not as good as Hugo TT2, but back then when I had my desktop gears, pairing C9 with my desktop DAC Burson Composer is a significant step up from DAPs as well.


----------



## lumdicks

bluestorm1992 said:


> Congrats on the new toy!! Amazing setup and pic from you as always.
> 
> Hmm, a new toy again, and we haven’t reached May.


With all the new toys, I shall never keep apart from my C9.


----------



## lumdicks

bluestorm1992 said:


> Perhaps not as good as Hugo TT2, but back then when I had my desktop gears, pairing C9 with my desktop DAC Burson Composer is a significant step up from DAPs as well.


wow! A great pairing and Composer is undoubtedly an amazing DAC!


----------



## Whitigir

lumdicks said:


> With all the new toys, I shall never keep apart from my C9.


Why ? You no longer seek Shaling M30 ?


----------



## lumdicks

Whitigir said:


> Why ? You no longer seek Shaling M30 ?


No, I have enough gears indeed. May save up a bit for the M Scaler later and that's all of my setup.


----------



## soundblast75

Arriving tomorrow, lets see how much it'll beat BX2plus with iems mostly 🤔😉


----------



## bluestorm1992

soundblast75 said:


> Arriving tomorrow, lets see how much it'll beat BX2plus with iems mostly 🤔😉


Congrats! What is your pairing source?

I would say synergy between IEMs and C9/BX2 is important. The good thing is that C9 has so many modes to explore: line vs. pre, tube vs. SS, and class A vs. AB; 8 possible combos here already.  So hopefully you can find the mode that best suits your taste.


----------



## Hanyong

soundblast75 said:


> Arriving tomorrow, lets see how much it'll beat BX2plus with iems mostly 🤔😉



I have bx2. For driving HEDDphone, c9 is much better than bx2. This is better than bx2.


----------



## soundblast75

bluestorm1992 said:


> Congrats! What is your pairing source?
> 
> I would say synergy between IEMs and C9/BX2 is important. The good thing is that C9 has so many modes to explore: line vs. pre, tube vs. SS, and class A vs. AB; 8 possible combos here already.  So hopefully you can find the mode that best suits your taste.


I have P6Pro, some use it that way i see, but somehow I'm begging to think Kann Alpha might be a better line out source, A&K have always been better at LO than most, very clean. 
Mest 2 becomes a little muddied (stronge word) with BX2plus vs Direct from P6Pro, yet it does add a good lower end body too, so hoping I'll get a better result with C9, for the money it should take me for Michelin Meal too lol


----------



## Whitigir

Hanyong said:


> I have bx2. For driving HEDDphone, c9 is much better than bx2. This is better than bx2.


As expected! Thanks! So far the WA-8 is holding it own game 


lumdicks said:


> No, I have enough gears indeed. May save up a bit for the M Scaler later and that's all of my setup.


Very nice! And here I don’t know why I am so curious about M30 lol


----------



## soundblast75

Whitigir said:


> As expected! Thanks! So far the WA-8 is holding it own game
> 
> Very nice! And here I don’t know why I am so curious about M30 lol


So WA8 better than C9?
I have W11, i think its great, but will prob sell it now


----------



## bluestorm1992

soundblast75 said:


> I have P6Pro, some use it that way i see, but somehow I'm begging to think Kann Alpha might be a better line out source, A&K have always been better at LO than most, very clean.
> Mest 2 becomes a little muddied (stronge word) with BX2plus vs Direct from P6Pro, yet it does add a good lower end body too, so hoping I'll get a better result with C9, for the money it should take me for Michelin Meal too lol


P6 Pro is an excellent source for C9! I know I have shared this pic multiple times, but why not once more. 




If you enjoy P6 Pro’s sound signature, make sure you also try C9’s pre mode as well; it preserves the DAP’s sound signature and significantly elevates it from there.  Of course, the exploration will start from the standard line mode.


----------



## soundblast75 (Apr 20, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> P6 Pro is an excellent source for C9! I know I have shared this pic multiple times, but why not once more.
> 
> If you enjoy P6 Pro’s sound signature, make sure you also try C9’s pre mode as well; it preserves the DAP’s sound signature and significantly elevates it from there.  Of course, the exploration will start from the standard line mode.


Super, thanks for the tip, can't wait to get higher😁☝️🍻
Any special advice on charging?


----------



## Kiats

bluestorm1992 said:


> Congrats on the new toy!! Amazing setup and pic from you as always.
> 
> Hmm, a new toy again, and we haven’t reached May.



Heheh! Well done! How is the Focal Stella ?


----------



## bluestorm1992

soundblast75 said:


> Super, thanks for the tip, can't wait to get higher😁☝️🍻
> Any special advice on charging?


Use a dedicated charger for it. That’s the simplest way to protect C9 and your source.

Generally, I have used C9 pretty much like my Phone. In the day I use it without charging it at the same time; C9 gets kind of hot when both using and charging it. At night before I go to sleep, I set it up with a dedicated charger.


----------



## soundblast75

This thread shows in Ignored content for me, anybody know how can i put that back to normal?
Thanks


----------



## bluestorm1992

Kiats said:


> Heheh! Well done! How is the Focal Stella ?


I think you want to quote @lumdicks.


----------



## soundblast75

bluestorm1992 said:


> Use a dedicated charger for it. That’s the simplest way to protect C9 and your source.
> 
> Generally, I have used C9 pretty much like my Phone. In the day I use it without charging it at the same time; C9 gets kind of hot when both using and charging it. At night before I go to sleep, I set it up with a dedicated charger.


Understood and thanks 👍


----------



## Joseph Lin

soundblast75 said:


> So WA8 better than C9?
> I have W11, i think its great, but will prob sell it now


I would say WA8 is warmer, lively, fluid and smoother than C9. The bass extends deeper. Typical tube amp sound. But the attack and resolution of C9 is better than WA8.  C9 still sounds a bit SS sound and amplifies the faults of the source. WA8 would smooth edgy sound of bad sources. I EQed C9 around 30hz by 6db and 60hz to 1~2 db to make it sound similar to WA8. After EQ, C9 sounds very very good, sometimes better than WA8. WA8 is warmer and I am used to WA8 sound so I am biased.


----------



## Kiats

bluestorm1992 said:


> I think you want to quote @lumdicks.


Ooops! Indeed! How is the Stella @lumdicks ?


----------



## Kiats

Joseph Lin said:


> I would say WA8 is warmer, lively, fluid and smoother than C9. The bass extends deeper. Typical tube amp sound. But the attack and resolution of C9 is better than WA8.  C9 still sounds a bit SS sound and amplifies the faults of the source. WA8 would smooth edgy sound of bad sources. I EQed C9 around 30hz by 6db and 60hz to 1~2 db to make it sound similar to WA8. After EQ, C9 sounds very very good, sometimes better than WA8. WA8 is warmer and I am used to WA8 sound so I am biased.



Yes, choice is a nice thing to have.  That’s why I am keeping the Phatlab Chimera. Nice complement.


----------



## soundblast75

Joseph Lin said:


> I would say WA8 is warmer, lively, fluid and smoother than C9. The bass extends deeper. Typical tube amp sound. But the attack and resolution of C9 is better than WA8.  C9 still sounds a bit SS sound and amplifies the faults of the source. WA8 would smooth edgy sound of bad sources. I EQed C9 around 30hz by 6db and 60hz to 1~2 db to make it sound similar to WA8. After EQ, C9 sounds very very good, sometimes better than WA8. WA8 is warmer and I am used to WA8 sound so I am biased.


Sounds similar to W11, it has its own flavour, always pleasant sound, but it doesn't pair optimally with all headphones.
It's also good to hear C9 is punchier and not too smoothed out, love old school British sq but sometimes lamps have shortcomings too


----------



## lumdicks

Kiats said:


> Ooops! Indeed! How is the Stella @lumdicks ?


I think Stellia is one of the best closed end headphones which is very resolving, mid-forward with sparkled treble. Imaging is good and soundstage is even more wider than many open-ended headphones. But I think it is not very musical and not always able to draw myself to the emotion of the music. From other users it needs a rather long period of break-in so I hope it will keep improving. For me, Empyrean is way more musical and engaging, and is my favourite now.

The Obravo HAMT3 MKII is also very enjoyable with smooth and extended treble from its AMT unit and at the same time deep and strong bass from its DD. At its price level it is a steal for me.


----------



## Joseph Lin

lumdicks said:


> I think Stellia is one of the best closed end headphones which is very resolving, mid-forward with sparkled treble. Imaging is good and soundstage is even more wider than many open-ended headphones. But I think it is not very musical and not always able to draw myself to the emotion of the music. From other users it needs a rather long period of break-in so I hope it will keep improving. For me, Empyrean is way more musical and engaging, and is my favourite now.
> 
> The Obravo HAMT3 MKII is also very enjoyable with smooth and extended treble from its AMT unit and at the same time deep and strong bass from its DD. At its price level it is a steal for me.


How's Empyrean's treble? I heard several comments on the trouble of treble in the Youtube reviews. Does C9 pair it better than Stellia? I am considering buying Empyrean.


----------



## jmills8

lumdicks said:


> I think Stellia is one of the best closed end headphones which is very resolving, mid-forward with sparkled treble. Imaging is good and soundstage is even more wider than many open-ended headphones. But I think it is not very musical and not always able to draw myself to the emotion of the music. From other users it needs a rather long period of break-in so I hope it will keep improving. For me, Empyrean is way more musical and engaging, and is my favourite now.
> 
> The Obravo HAMT3 MKII is also very enjoyable with smooth and extended treble from its AMT unit and at the same time deep and strong bass from its DD. At its price level it is a steal for me.


Wished I found the Stellia like that. I just found it average.


----------



## lumdicks

Joseph Lin said:


> How's Empyrean's treble? I heard several comments on the trouble of treble in the Youtube reviews. Does C9 pair it better than Stellia? I am considering buying Empyrean.


With such expensive CAN I always recommend audition before purchase. For me the Empyrean is sounding very good in all bands and I have not encountered any trouble in treble. On individual area Empyrean may not be the best performing one but all in all, it is very musical and engaging. It pairs well with C9 and indeed it is quite an  easy partner for a variety of sources.


----------



## Joseph Lin

jmills8 said:


> Wished I found the Stellia like that. I just found it average.


When the cost of a CAN is that high, it automatically makes it sound excellent psychologically. Kidding aside, I feel like Stellia does not worth the price tag. Sometimes I feel my HD650 out performs it when driving it with a proper amp. But the tricky part is that you can drive Stellia with almost any source and it is a closed back phone.


----------



## tawmizzzz

So I wanted to preface these initial impressions with this: although I am no stranger to DAP and cable rolling, this is my first endeavor into LO/pre-AMPing. So many thanks to those who walked me through the noob questions! @bluestorm1992 & @aaf evo especially

Firstly-I was semi-disappointed after LO'ing the R8 into C9 with the Trailllii. I was expecting a somewhat large difference, but to my surprise, it was very subtle. Perhaps a touch more space for the notes to breath, and definitely a tighter, rich bass, but soundstage was relatively the same (which to be fair, Bird from R8 Turbo is already so massive so not sure what else more I was expecting).

I tried the same synergy with Infinity and also did not really notice anything too different-and I'd like to think I have pretty discerning ears (maybe no after all???). Then it took me a while to realize that I wanted to preserve the sound signature of the DAC, whether R8 or M8, so I recently experimented with the pre-mode (pictured above) and found an excellent synergy with the Infinity Mk2. M8 Turbo + Pre C9; adds a sweet, warmth and doubles down on Inf2's already incredible soundstage and imaging. 

So mumbo jumbo aside, it's still early days as I experiment with some other synergies (haven't tried the Elixir, for example, which probably has good scalability potential). But so far, R8 LO hasn't been as noticeable as I'd hope, yet the pre-mode is starting to hit the sweet spots, especially with the M8.

For what it is worth, with my brief DX300 "LO" with C9, I noticed a larger improvement all around compared to R8 LO. And I prefer the SS and Class AB the most so far.


----------



## bluestorm1992

tawmizzzz said:


> So I wanted to preface these initial impressions with this: although I am no stranger to DAP and cable rolling, this is my first endeavor into LO/pre-AMPing. So many thanks to those who walked me through the noob questions! @bluestorm1992 & @aaf evo especially
> 
> Firstly-I was semi-disappointed after LO'ing the R8 into C9 with the Trailllii. I was expecting a somewhat large difference, but to my surprise, it was very subtle. Perhaps a touch more space for the notes to breath, and definitely a tighter, rich bass, but soundstage was relatively the same (which to be fair, Bird from R8 Turbo is already so massive so not sure what else more I was expecting).
> 
> ...


Glad that you can find a mode that works for your taste. Look forward to your more impressions! 

BTW, @xand mentioned earlier that C9’s impact on IEM seems cable-dependent too, which is quite surprising. Check with the Iliad and see if you can find anything interesting.


----------



## bluestorm1992

I think some of you know this already. I put down an order for the new UM Mason FS. Arriving in May. Will report back how it pairs with C9.


----------



## Kiats

Trying out the pre-amp function of the C9 today. After I figured out the 3 sec hold of the pre-amp button, works like a charm. And now my WM1Z can drive my FitEar DC nicely.  

One question though @Andykong: the C9 manual states that the pre-amp light will come on once the pre-amp switch is engaged: which light would this be? Thanks!


----------



## Lu88 (Apr 21, 2021)

Kiats said:


> Trying out the pre-amp function of the C9 today. After I figured out the 3 sec hold of the pre-amp button, works like a charm. And now my WM1Z can drive my FitEar DC nicely.
> 
> One question though @Andykong: the C9 manual states that the pre-amp light will come on once the pre-amp switch is engaged: which light would this be? Thanks!


There is a small white indicator on the left of the Pre button. You don't see it because it's covered by the leather case.


----------



## Kiats

Thanks @Lu88 ! At least I know I'm not losing my mind...


----------



## So11rek

Just received my C9, it gives a lot of effect on the sound if compared to the centrance m8 v2 without C9, but later tonight I will test it with my Meze Empyrean, I'm looking forward! For now, I can only say that the C9 deserves every dollar I paid for it, imo!


----------



## soundblast75

To say that i am completely blown away by C9 would be an understatement.
I honestly didn't expect this, wow, just f##king wow👏👏👏


----------



## Nostoi

Only the best music for the C9....


----------



## Hanyong

Nostoi said:


> Only the best music for the C9....


How does it match with awkt?


----------



## Nostoi

Hanyong said:


> How does it match with awkt?


Really well. Adds some needed "weight" to the AWKT, giving a more robust sense of body. Male vocals also have authority. The tube mode also slightly smooths the top end without losing any of the amazing detail of the AWKT. I think it's one headphone where the C9 really shines.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 21, 2021)

I just learn that the second batch of C9 is close to being sold out... get one while you can.

The third batch could take quite some time to arrive.


----------



## jmills8

Nostoi said:


> Only the best music for the C9....


Nice , Metal , great way to test gear.


----------



## Nostoi

jmills8 said:


> Nice , Metal , great way to test gear.


Yep, metal for life. Got this Manowar badge when I was 12 years old (several decades ago). My music "taste" hasn't evolved since.


----------



## Hanyong

Nostoi said:


> Really well. Adds some needed "weight" to the AWKT, giving a more robust sense of body. Male vocals also have authority. The tube mode also slightly smooths the top end without losing any of the amazing detail of the AWKT. I think it's one headphone where the C9 really shines.



Thank you, I tried adx5k a few days ago, the sound is a bit thin, it may be related to my use of a02 pre out, I will try it when I have a chance.


----------



## iFi audio

Jeffyue said:


> I prefer the ifi itraveler which gives a bit more space for IC.  I tried to put my C9 in the DDHifi 2019, but cannot close the cover if I put a couple of IC in the pocket.



Whoa, that Cayin really is big!


----------



## cheznous

Well DPD guy just delivered this baby. Anyone in the UK looking for a C9 then I believe Hifonix have got some in stock.


----------



## soundblast75

cheznous said:


> Well DPD guy just delivered this baby. Anyone in the UK looking for a C9 then I believe Hifonix have got some in stock.


Not for long by the sound of it, i got mine there too👍🍻


----------



## cheznous

It is big!!
Will leave case off until I have read the book. 
Odins and some Jon Dee Graham for starters.


----------



## Nostoi

Hanyong said:


> Thank you, I tried adx5k a few days ago, the sound is a bit thin, it may be related to my use of a02 pre out, I will try it when I have a chance.


I haven't tried out the ADx5k (though would love to) but I have a few of the brighter AT headphones, and they all sound very good on the C9 - all provided with more bottom end (and in the case of the WP900, more texture in the mids).


----------



## zen87192

Mest MK2 has landed with me today. Got to go to work now but will have a listen later today with and without the C9. Can't wait!


----------



## bluestorm1992

soundblast75 said:


> To say that i am completely blown away by C9 would be an understatement.
> I honestly didn't expect this, wow, just f##king wow👏👏👏





Nostoi said:


> Only the best music for the C9....


Mind if I share these pics with Cayin? Looking great.

Edit: If you have nice pairing pics, don’t hesitate to post here or let me know haha.


----------



## Nostoi

bluestorm1992 said:


> Mind if I share these pics with Cayin? Looking great.
> 
> Edit: If you have nice pairing pics, don’t hesitate to post here or let me know haha.


By all means, do feel free to share.


----------



## fuhransahis

Kiats said:


> Yes, choice is a nice thing to have.  That’s why I am keeping the Phatlab Chimera. Nice complement.



If you have a moment (or maybe you have tested already), do you mind sharing your thoughts on the C9 vs the Chimera (in tube mode, I have the Sassy GT and it's similar to the Chimera in tube mode!) using the Empyrean and DX300?


----------



## wgkwgk

wgkwgk said:


> Does the C9 sound like a full-sized desktop tube amp?  Likely not.  But along with the obvious portability the C9 does sound really, really good.  Better than my Liquid Platinum?  Probably not.  As others have/will mention the C9 with the N6ii would be tube setup of choice.  Now, I've not used the heavy lifting tube amps that light up the whole neighborhood requirinf additional AC, but I've rolled enough tubes to say it's a huge rat hole and money pit.  I learned tons but I don't miss rolling.  It gets to be like "I just spent $600 on a  matched set of NOS Orange Globes and boy can I tell the difference."  Real or perceived, one had _better_ sense a difference (hopefully positive) after dropping $600!  But wait?!!!  Those Telefunkens are supposed to be more detailed and laidback--you know the ones made in that special factory in Heerling (or whatever).  Used in WWII radio equipment?  How cool is that!
> 
> You get the idea.  But as I said earlier I learned a _ton_!
> 
> My US$0.03


Hello!

The previous R6 sounded really good, IMHO.  The R6 202 had more I/O options, so I upgraded.  (BTW: Prior R6 for sale)  The Cayin C9 is simply amazing.  Not to bore you but I did R6 2020 with/without C9.  Huge difference.  Sound stage, clarity, depth and detail were huge differences with the C9.  This was using a mid-tier Orvetti and mid-tier Nobel iems.  _Then_, I purchased Campfire Audio Solaris.  At the first listen I actually shouted "Are you f'ing kidding me???"  It sings!  Simply amazing.   So, C9=absolutely.  (The Woo Audio comparable, from what I've read, has QC problems.)

I sometimes question whether I need both a great portable setup along with a good desktop system.   I don't _need_ a desktop system but hey, toys!!  Could I be totally happy with only having the R6 2020/C9 combo??? Absolutely.  No question.

Best,

Bill


----------



## soundblast75

bluestorm1992 said:


> Mind if I share these pics with Cayin? Looking great.
> 
> Edit: If you have nice pairing pics, don’t hesitate to post here or let me know haha.


It'd be my pleasure too👍🍻


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

wgkwgk said:


> Hello!
> 
> The previous R6 sounded really good, IMHO.  The R6 202 had more I/O options, so I upgraded.  (BTW: Prior R6 for sale)  The Cayin C9 is simply amazing.  Not to bore you but I did R6 2020 with/without C9.  Huge difference.  Sound stage, clarity, depth and detail were huge differences with the C9.  This was using a mid-tier Orvetti and mid-tier Nobel iems.  _Then_, I purchased Campfire Audio Solaris.  At the first listen I actually shouted "Are you f'ing kidding me???"  It sings!  Simply amazing.   So, C9=absolutely.  (The Woo Audio comparable, from what I've read, has QC problems.)
> 
> ...


Awesome!    That's exactly what I have.   I get to see my R6 2020 and new C9 next Tuesday.   In this case, it has arrive.  I am going to meet it and so look forward to hearing them together.

Give me a head start.    Which of the 8 modes sounds best?


----------



## soundblast75

Fits with the case in a case😁


----------



## bigbeans (Apr 21, 2021)

I took delivery of DUNU ZEN today and had a very interesting experience that I would like to share. Thank you @bluestorm1992 in advance for being part of this journey with me and sharing his knowledge and experience with these audio gears. It's amazing what C9 can do for some iems.

Cayin C9 is designed for IEMs but I admit, I purchased it to serve double duty for my efficient headphones (Stellia, Z1R, Empyrean, HER10P). Until today, I haven’t appreciated the difference an amp like C9 can do for an iem. Many reviewers classify ZEN as a ‘sensitive’ iem. This leads many to believe that ZEN sips power and all you need is a dongle for them. This couldn’t be farther from the truth in my experience.





Upon first arrival, I unpacked Zen, attached the 3.5mm connector and plugged into my Hiby R8. Upon first listen, I was a bit disappointed. While I could sense INCREDIBLE energy in the mids, the bass just wasn’t there. I quickly played with Hiby’s MSEB and arrived a tuning that was quite a bit better. I quickly discovered ZEN responds very very well to EQ.

I chatted with @bluestorm1992 , I told him ZEN sounds like ‘poking the beast’ but beast was still half asleep. I did respect the tuning direction, very new and I liked the preview I was getting. He asked me to try with C9 as @lumdicks liked C9+Zen pairing. I didn’t see much point at first given the sensitivity of ZEN and low gain on R8 (40 volume) ZEN was plenty loud. But no harm in trying 

Attaching 4.4mm ZEN connector, hooking up Eletech Iliad Interconnect (thanks @Eric Chong ) to R8 and I started with the same electronic test track.





*HOLY.

MOLY.

MOTHER.

OF.

BALLS.*

What???? Everything just clicked. The bass went from ok to electrifying. The power! Treble response was greatly enhanced too and matched the mid energy. The DD’s were pushing so much energy I honestly couldn’t believe it. I had to check if MSEB was active several times throughout my session. MSEB was off, and ZEN was giving me LCD4 levels of energy. The downside. You need something like C9 for this.

What team at @DUNU-Topsound tuned this??? It’s hard to believe the same company that came out with the refinement of Luna has released this RAW unrestrained iem. Why on earth is this called ZEN?? I am definitely not at ease or calm listening to this. This is something else. I still can’t process the sheer energy of what I’m hearing. This is no beast. This is a demon slayer.

_*“Rip and tear, until it is done.”*_


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bigbeans said:


> I took delivery of DUNU ZEN today and had a very interesting experience that I would like to share. Thank you @bluestorm1992 in advance for being part of this journey with me and sharing his knowledge and experience with these audio gears. It's amazing what C9 can do for some iems.
> 
> Cayin C9 is designed for IEMs but I admit, I purchased it to serve double duty for my efficient headphones (Stellia, Z1R, Empyrean, HER10P). Until today, I haven’t appreciated the difference an amp like C9 can do for an iem. Many reviewers classify ZEN as a ‘sensitive’ iem. This leads many to believe that ZEN sips power and all you need is a dongle for them. This couldn’t be farther from the truth in my experience.
> 
> ...


Awesome.  That Iliad Interconnect is something else.   I've got to get me one of those!


----------



## bluestorm1992

bigbeans said:


> I took delivery of DUNU ZEN today and had a very interesting experience that I would like to share. Thank you @bluestorm1992 in advance for being part of this journey with me and sharing his knowledge and experience with these audio gears. It's amazing what C9 can do for some iems.
> 
> Cayin C9 is designed for IEMs but I admit, I purchased it to serve double duty for my efficient headphones (Stellia, Z1R, Empyrean, HER10P). Until today, I haven’t appreciated the difference an amp like C9 can do for an iem. Many reviewers classify ZEN as a ‘sensitive’ iem. This leads many to believe that ZEN sips power and all you need is a dongle for them. This couldn’t be farther from the truth in my experience.
> 
> ...


This is a cross post from the Dunu thread, but I figured I can share my thoughts here as well. 


It now seems quite comfier that C9 has the ability to elevate DD IEM’s performance as well. For the right pairing, the improvement can be huge, and this does not have to be with flagship DD IEM.

My Dunu EST112 also sounds amazing with C9, and I have found myself using it more often than Sultan actually.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 21, 2021)

Now that we are on this topic, I figure I can share a bit more about the engineering idea behind C9's performance and capability.

A while ago, I had a discussion in Michael's thread with gler about why there is the need to have C9 for IEMs. The common argument is any modern DAP will have plenty of power to drive most of the IEMs, so a better, even independent Amp is no need. However, this certainly does not explain why we see the performance differences between TOTL DAPs and mid-tier DAPs, even from the same brand. Hiby R8 performs better than R6 2020, even though on paper R6 has plenty of power. Also, this difference is clearly not just a tuning thing, but rather an elevation in lots of technical aspects such as soundstage, details, imaging, among many others.

So, I brought this question to Cayin's Wechat group: Why does C9 work with IEMs? If it is not just power, why can a better amp/DAP improve IEM performance? I posted these questions in the group and requested an answer in a non-technical language so that I can understand. I got warm feedback from both their general manager Mr. Liang and several engineers from other brands who happen to be in that group, and I think they explained this well. 

According to Mr. Liang, in designing a good amp (or the amp inside a DAP), the focus is no longer just on increasing the max power. Instead, it is in managing *transient. *What does this mean? He gave an example using cars. So, now the focus is no longer on increasing the max horsepower from the car. Instead, it is in controlling the speed of the car, such that it can accelerate/decelerate precisely as we command. In driving an IEM, the key in music reproduction is those *drivers should move in a manner exactly as we want them to be*. Achieving this is difficult and requires lots of engineering effort, and this is the design goal behind C9: managing the trainset in a better way.

This in fact may explain why C9 can work with ultra-sensitive IEMs like Andromeda and Zen. For those sensitive IEMs, as I understand it, it is very easy that those units are moving in an undesirable manner (because they are just so sensitive to power). When the units are not moving in the way/frequency we want, the sound gets messed up and the clarity in the music is destroyed.

This also explains why "driving it loud' is NOT the same as "driving it well" -  again, it is not about the max output power, but about managing the transient. For this point, I also refer to an excellent explanation offered by another sound engineer @Liberatus in a post in Diana V2's discussion thread.

Certainly, there is still an element of synergy among C9, the source gear, and IEMs. Not all IEMs and DAPs can benefit from C9, although I have found most of them do. Here I just want to offer some interesting background for the design idea behind C9.


----------



## aaf evo

The Lotoo PAW 6000 + Cayin C9 is better than any standalone DAP I have heard (obviously tonality preferences have to match here too), and it surpasses the iBasso DX220 Max on technicalities in terms of staging, layering, and separation, imo. 

So yeah, it’s definitely not a thing about just having more power from my discovery as well.


----------



## RTodd

bluestorm1992 said:


> Now that we are on this topic, I figure I can share a bit more about the engineering idea behind C9's performance and capability.
> 
> A while ago, I had a discussion in Michael's thread with @gLer about why there is the need to have C9 for IEMs. The common argument is any modern DAP will have plenty of power to drive most of the IEMs, so a better, even independent Amp is no need. However, this certainly does not explain why we see the performance differences between TOTL DAPs and mid-tier DAPs, even from the same brand. Hiby R8 performs better than R6 2020, even though on paper R6 has plenty of power. Also, this difference is clearly not just a tuning thing, but rather an elevation in lots of technical aspects such as soundstage, details, imaging, among many others.
> 
> ...


This is helpful.
I have always thought transients were describing the very beginning of the sound, the start of the attack, which is than followed by the sustain, and ended by the decay. Managing the power through careful circuit design to control the voltage level and the current flow, with repeated attacks throughout the track must be very well done in this amp otherwise the group of perceptive listeners here would not be so happy with the C9. At least that is my take.

Quick question;
I am joining you all with a C9 this weekend, I will have to use the stock interconnect at first, is everyone upgrading that for good reason?


----------



## aaf evo

I honestly have no desire to upgrade my IC just yet. I am going to wait and see how the use plays out for now. It’s early stages for me and I love the C9 and it’s quite portable so I’m not seeing myself getting around to selling it. I still grab my DAPs for stand-alone use quite often though as I’m moving around the house. If the C9 is here to stay I may look into better IC’s.


----------



## Whitigir

People really “underestimated” how much a good “Interconnect” can do for the C9.  ...just saying


----------



## aaf evo

Whitigir said:


> People really “underestimated” how much a good “Interconnect” can do for the C9.  ...just saying



I have no doubts it’ll improve the performance. I just want to make sure I plan to keep this for a long time before investing $100’s into a cable for it.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 21, 2021)

RTodd said:


> This is helpful.
> I have always thought transients were describing the very beginning of the sound, the start of the attack, which is than followed by the sustain, and ended by the decay. Managing the power through careful circuit design to control the voltage level and the current flow, with repeated attacks throughout the track must be very well done in this amp otherwise the group of perceptive listeners here would not be so happy with the C9. At least that is my take.
> 
> Quick question;
> I am joining you all with a C9 this weekend, I will have to use the stock interconnect at first, is everyone upgrading that for good reason?


Congrats and welcome to the club!

Same as @aaf evo suggested, I think you can hold on for a while and see if C9 works for you. If so, upgrading the IC will be the next natural move.


----------



## bluestorm1992

OK I am cross-posting from the N6ii thread.

A teaser from Cayin. What could this be?  

A new motherboard, or a new DAP with a similar motherboard design?


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> OK I am cross-posting from the N6ii thread.
> 
> A teaser from Cayin. What could this be?
> 
> A new motherboard, or a new DAP with a similar motherboard design?


Look to me like a new motherboard

But with @Andykong stating that Cayin wasn’t interest in making anymore modules for N6ii .  Together with a tease of another N device .  Then the picture look like a module 

I say this module is interchangeable toward N6ii alone, and is also made for the next generation N6iii.

 I also highly suggest a winner in guessing/predictions should be getting a free unit LOL


----------



## Hanyong

bluestorm1992 said:


> OK I am cross-posting from the N6ii thread.
> 
> A teaser from Cayin. What could this be?
> 
> A new motherboard, or a new DAP with a similar motherboard design?


R2r ?😂


----------



## cheznous

The fitted Sony 18650 battery is pretty much impossible to get hold of at present in the UK. Maybe a combination of supply chain issues and popularity with Vapors?
Any suggestions for alternative or perhaps maybe even better spec as a back up?


----------



## bluestorm1992

cheznous said:


> The fitted Sony 18650 battery is pretty much impossible to get hold of at present in the UK. Maybe a combination of supply chain issues and popularity with Vapors?
> Any suggestions for alternative or perhaps maybe even better spec as a back up?


Check out this post.

Post in thread 'Cayin C9: Dual Nutube, Fully discrete Fully Balanced Class A/AB Portable Headphone Amplifier'
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...able-headphone-amplifier.943135/post-16176883


----------



## cheznous

bluestorm1992 said:


> Check out this post.
> 
> Post in thread 'Cayin C9: Dual Nutube, Fully discrete Fully Balanced Class A/AB Portable Headphone Amplifier'
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...able-headphone-amplifier.943135/post-16176883


Thank you but Orbtronic are not available in the UK. Most popular seems to be the Molicel.
Also I note the second one is a button top and I thought C9 used Flat tops?


----------



## cheznous

cheznous said:


> Thank you but Orbtronic are not available in the UK. Most popular seems to be the Molicel.
> Also I note the second one is a button top and I thought C9 used Flat tops?


Sorry I do have another question. Does it matter if the batteries are 10A rather than 20A?


----------



## piercer

My C9 arrives today - will pair with an N8. Interested to compare a fully balanced route with a half unbalanced route

N8 balanced SS -> C9 -> balanced tube
N8 unbalanced tube -> C9 -> balanced tube

I'll let you know how I get on.


----------



## zen87192 (Apr 22, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> OK I am cross-posting from the N6ii thread.
> 
> A teaser from Cayin. What could this be?
> 
> A new motherboard, or a new DAP with a similar motherboard design?


A Tube Motherboard 😄


----------



## soundblast75 (Apr 22, 2021)

[QUOTE="RTodd, post: 16310687, member: 538470"

Quick question;
I am joining you all with a C9 this weekend, I will have to use the stock interconnect at first, is everyone upgrading that for good reason?
[/QUOTE]

I like the stock cable a lot, been comparing to this Romi Zero Aka £150 i got the other day and difference is on the imaginable side, stock is very crisp sounding and not a step down in any way, i don't tend to notice things like how it changes F or M vocals, so maybe i some will say its night and day, but to me i don't see the point, 
Beautiful Romi though, flexible and smooth, resolving for sure

Edit :
On further listening it seems to me Romi sounds warmer and fuller, very smooth yet resolving whilst stock IC is a edgier amd dryer somehow


----------



## Whitigir

cheznous said:


> Sorry I do have another question. Does it matter if the batteries are 10A rather than 20A?


Nope! The control circuit is limited at 5A rated anyways.  The chemistry within a battery will effect the sound though


----------



## zen87192

Does anyone know of where I can buy the official C9 Leather Case please? I'm having trouble locating one as I'd like to use one for transport protection inside my small rucksack.


----------



## bluestorm1992

zen87192 said:


> Does anyone know of where I can buy the official C9 Leather Case please? I'm having trouble locating one as I'd like to use one for transport protection inside my small rucksack.


I bought it from Musicteck.


----------



## zen87192

I tried Andrew but he is only selling the case with New C9 purchases. Thanks for the recommendation though.


----------



## bluestorm1992

zen87192 said:


> I tried Andrew but he is only selling the case with New C9 purchases. Thanks for the recommendation though.


@Nostoi has the case as well.


----------



## Kiats

zen87192 said:


> I tried Andrew but he is only selling the case with New C9 purchases. Thanks for the recommendation though.


AliExpress and Taobao have stock. Picked mine up from Taobao.


----------



## piercer

So - its arrived. For now all I'm saying is WOW! 

Its a really well made piece of kit - oozes quality. Ooodles of power into my Laylas. 

I am a valve-head, but the class A solid state is pretty ****ing epic! A much more grown-up solid state sound than I am used to from other portable gear. Think portable Krell!

Really really strong sound. I am impressed.

Getting back to testing while I work.

I'll try to formulate some basic impressions later.


----------



## Nostoi (Apr 22, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> @Nostoi has the case as well.


Yup, I got mine with Andrew. Don't know if he changed his policy, though.


----------



## piercer

It gets warm! 🔥


----------



## piercer (Apr 22, 2021)

This is really working for me.

Cayin dudes - a question for you. What would be the recommended way to connect from the tube output of the N8 to the C9?


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 22, 2021)

piercer said:


> This is really working for me.
> 
> Cayin dudes - a question for you. What would be the recommended way to connect from the tube output of the N8 to the C9?


Don't own N8, but I can imagine that line and pre mode of C9 should be giving very different results.

Alex also gives an excellent discussion for N8+C9 in his extensive review of C9. 

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/cayin-c9-totl-tube-solid-state-portable-amplifier.24966/reviews


----------



## piercer

So, Cayin, I now need a matching case for my N8. I have the Dignis black one for it currently but it is getting pretty tatty. Is it possible to buy one that matches the C9 case?


----------



## bluestorm1992

piercer said:


> So, Cayin, I now need a matching case for my N8. I have the Dignis black one for it currently but it is getting pretty tatty. Is it possible to buy one that matches the C9 case?


I think N8 does not have a matching case, N6ii has one though. Musicteck has brand new Dignis case for N8 available.


----------



## soundblast75

Back on the topic of IC, oh boy, i have to say I've started hearing bigger and bigger gap b/n Romi and stock one.
Bass is deeper, vocals and elements are clearer and distinctive, holographic feel much more present, yet, never ever a harsh note. Most of all its quieter, blacker than Stock one, it makes everything lusher and sweeter. 
Opens another dimension, very 3D.
Impressive!


----------



## twister6

piercer said:


> This is really working for me.
> 
> Cayin dudes - a question for you. What would be the recommended way to connect from the tube output of the N8 to the C9?



We all heard of double-amping, but double-tubing?  That would be a new one   I mean, it doesn't hurt to experiment, but typically people use external amp to replace the internal one, to color the sound differently.  Thus you would want to connect LO of the DAP to something like C9.  In that case, use balanced line out into balanced input of C9.


----------



## piercer

twister6 said:


> We all heard of double-amping, but double-tubing?  That would be a new one   I mean, it doesn't hurt to experiment, but typically people use external amp to replace the internal one, to color the sound differently.  Thus you would want to connect LO of the DAP to something like C9.  In that case, use balanced line out into balanced input of C9.


You've never heard of a tube pre-amp and a tube power-amp  I am trying to recreate that in a portable format?

From my one experiment today: N8 3.5mm P+ Low Gain SE tube output -> 3.5mm input on C9 -> balanced class a tube output, I think I may have glimpsed something magical! However both volume controls were engaged, which is not ideal. I don't think you can set line out on the tube output of the n8, but I might be wrong. Therefore I will have to put the C9 into pure power amp mode where the volume is controlled by the N8, however the one time I did that today it was a bit noisy. I'll try again tomorrow.


----------



## bluestorm1992

piercer said:


> You've never heard of a tube pre-amp and a tube power-amp  I am trying to recreate that in a portable format?
> 
> From my one experiment today: N8 3.5mm P+ Low Gain SE tube output -> 3.5mm input on C9 -> balanced class a tube output, I think I may have glimpsed something magical! However both volume controls were engaged, which is not ideal. I don't think you can set line out on the tube output of the n8, but I might be wrong. Therefore I will have to put the C9 into pure power amp mode where the volume is controlled by the N8, however the one time I did that today it was a bit noisy. I'll try again tomorrow.


If you are driving IEMs, try put C9 into low gain. This maybe solve the noise issue.


----------



## zen87192

Kiats said:


> AliExpress and Taobao have stock. Picked mine up from Taobao.



Would you have the link to the C9 case as I searched on Taobao with no luck?

Its amazing how everyone has sold out of the C9 cases.


----------



## zen87192

I'd better jump on the Battery Trays once they are released shortly if thats how stocks run out in record time. Seems Cayin have underestimated the C9 and its accessories greatly.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 22, 2021)

zen87192 said:


> I'd better jump on the Battery Trays once they are released shortly if thats how stocks run out in record time. Seems Cayin have underestimated the C9 and its accessories greatly.


Here you go.

https://m.tb.cn/h.4KdkQca?sm=76ed48 

AFAIK, Cayin have actually made lots of C9 cases and have them ready in stock. It seems to me that Andrew only ordered an equal amount of cases as his order for C9, so now it turns out to be a bit insufficient.

Edit: let me talk to Cayin and see if they can make the case available in Aliexpress.


----------



## soundblast75

Do we know if they will offer batteries or just the tray, so hard to find any now😅


----------



## bluestorm1992

soundblast75 said:


> Do we know if they will offer batteries or just the tray, so hard to find any now😅


Just the tray, no batteries.


----------



## Kiats (Apr 22, 2021)

zen87192 said:


> Would you have the link to the C9 case as I searched on Taobao with no luck?
> 
> Its amazing how everyone has sold out of the C9 cases.


6.0，omU6X2leGOk啊 https://m.tb.cn/h.4p5GFYK?sm=25897c  Cayin凯音斯巴克C9皮套耳放 斯巴克

0👈啊zqDCX2lfayc， https://m.tb.cn/h.4qsYkn8?sm=1af7e4  斯巴克Cayin凯音C9皮套官方真皮保护套定制耳放配件贴合散热套子

here you go. Just input Cayin C9 in the search field and the amp as well as the covers pop up.


----------



## Kiats

bluestorm1992 said:


> Here you go.
> 
> https://m.tb.cn/h.4KdkQca?sm=76ed48
> 
> ...



Curious. Just searched on AliExpress. The Cayin Flagship Store was carrying them when I last looked a few weeks back. But it seems to be gone.


----------



## twister6

piercer said:


> You've never heard of a tube pre-amp and a tube power-amp  I am trying to recreate that in a portable format?
> 
> From my one experiment today: N8 3.5mm P+ Low Gain SE tube output -> 3.5mm input on C9 -> balanced class a tube output, I think I may have glimpsed something magical! However both volume controls were engaged, which is not ideal. I don't think you can set line out on the tube output of the n8, but I might be wrong. Therefore I will have to put the C9 into pure power amp mode where the volume is controlled by the N8, however the one time I did that today it was a bit noisy. I'll try again tomorrow.



Though I'm aware of desktop audio components, tbh, I'm more comfortable with DAPs   In a desktop component setup, matched pre-amp and tube power-amp building blocks should yield a better pair up synergy, but take a look at N8 design diagram below.  If you look at the cleaner LO path vs a more convoluted internal dual amplifier stage, and add tube amp on top of that, you don't know what you are going to get unless you experiment 

But, yeah, switch C9 to Pre-Amp mode (the front panel switch and a side button to activate it) and you should get better results!


----------



## bluestorm1992

Kiats said:


> Curious. Just searched on AliExpress. The Cayin Flagship Store was carrying them when I last looked a few weeks back. But it seems to be gone.


They probably took it down because some dealers have complaint. I am asking them about this right now.


----------



## bluestorm1992

zen87192 said:


> I'd better jump on the Battery Trays once they are released shortly if thats how stocks run out in record time. Seems Cayin have underestimated the C9 and its accessories greatly.


Just spoke with Cayin. They have put it back on their Aliexpress.


US $84.55  5％ Off | Cayin C9 Leather Case Brown Color
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mOqCVZt

The UK authorized deal should be getting new stocks for the case as well very soon. The shipment is already on its way. You can either buy from Aliexpress or wait a bit to buy from them.


----------



## Joseph Lin

Just took out my ancient Cayin i5 from closet with bloated battery. The back plate was pushed open by the battery. I replaced the battery and is curious if it will pair well with C9. First try with HD650 and it is amazing. Taylor Siwft's new album (don't judge me...) Fearless's first few seconds' drum is so realistic I was shocked. WA8's drum is deeper but C9 is more realistic and the treble is so crisp and clean. I am very surprised C9 can turn my i5 into a high end DAP! I abandoned it many years ago because I do not like its warm sound, but C9 makes it sound so good, I am shocked. I then switched to use KZ Zax iem(low end disposable earbud) and it sounds even better, better than HD650! I cannot believe KZ Zax can sound this good. It is a very easy to drive IEM but C9 makes it sound like a mid/high range IEM.

One interesting find is pairing C9 with DX300 does not really improve much, tried many combinations and the result is the same. Dx300 sounds cleaner than DX300+C9. If you also have this combo, please share how to make DX300 sound better with C9.

Looks like C9 pairs really good with mid-range/old DAPs and mid/old headphones.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 22, 2021)

Joseph Lin said:


> Just took out my ancient Cayin i5 from closet with bloated battery. The back plate was pushed open by the battery. I replaced the battery and is curious if it will pair well with C9. First try with HD650 and it is amazing. Taylor Siwft's new album (don't judge me...) Fearless's first few seconds' drum is so realistic I was shocked. WA8's drum is deeper but C9 is more realistic and the treble is so crisp and clean. I am very surprised C9 can turn my i5 into a high end DAP! I abandoned it many years ago because I do not like its warm sound, but C9 makes it sound so good, I am shocked. I then switched to use KZ Zax iem(low end disposable earbud) and it sounds even better, better than HD650! I cannot believe KZ Zax can sound this good. It is a very easy to drive IEM but C9 makes it sound like a mid/high range IEM.
> 
> One interesting find is pairing C9 with DX300 does not really improve much, tried many combinations and the result is the same. Dx300 sounds cleaner than DX300+C9. If you also have this combo, please share how to make DX300 sound better with C9.
> 
> Looks like C9 pairs really good with mid-range/old DAPs and mid/old headphones.


Thanks for sharing! I can confirm that C9 indeed works very well with several relatively affordable IEMs I have owned, such as EST 112, and turns them into a truly high-end product. In an earlier post, I share a bit about why C9 can benefit some east-to-drive IEMs - because it manages the transient so well.

As for DAP pairing, I totally agree that C9 seems to work best for low/mid-tier IEMs. As @Andykong mentioned earlier, when companies are creating such a product, they usually cut back from their TOTL DAPs, and very often the most cut-back place is the Amp function of the DAP. With this, it is understandable that low/mid-tier DAP can truly benefit from C9 as C9 now serves that Amp function.

More generally, I have found the synergy between C9 and DAPs to be a somewhat user-dependent experience. @xand uses DX300 with C9 to drive Utopia and reported a much better result compared to DX300 alone. We also have many users with ultra-high-end DAPs like LPGT Ti and LP P6 Pro to benefit greatly from C9. In many of these cases, the users are majorly using headphones, so I am wondering maybe that’s why they can see a big difference even with their TOTL DAPs.


----------



## xand

Joseph Lin said:


> One interesting find is pairing C9 with DX300 does not really improve much, tried many combinations and the result is the same. Dx300 sounds cleaner than DX300+C9. If you also have this combo, please share how to make DX300 sound better with C9.



Hmm. I really much prefer adding the c9 when using Utopia (which you have listed) - try that? 

The difference isn't subtle, and it's immediate. 

I'm using a different IC now but I don't think that was it. One thing to note is that while the C9 does balance/se switching from source to output, you really want to do se/se or balance/balance.


----------



## Joseph Lin

xand said:


> Hmm. I really much prefer adding the c9 when using Utopia (which you have listed) - try that?
> 
> The difference isn't subtle, and it's immediate.
> 
> I'm using a different IC now but I don't think that was it. One thing to note is that while the C9 does balance/se switching from source to output, you really want to do se/se or balance/balance.


I tried it already. I like Utopia pairs with WA8 than with C9 by a lot. I have not tried Utopia with DX300 yet, I just received it yesterday or the day before it. Like I said before, WA8 adds warmth to Utopia and Stellia and I like the way it sounds. I cannot stand HD650 with WA8 though. HD650 sounds like Beats with WA8 but sounds great with C9. T1 sounds better with WA8 as well, it removes all the edgy treble from the sound and replaced it with very organic/fluid treble. I have not tried IER-Z1R yet. Too many toys....

I think we all have different taste...


----------



## xand

Joseph Lin said:


> I tried it already. I like Utopia pairs with WA8 than with C9 by a lot.


Shhh!! I don't want to try/buy more stuff haha.



Joseph Lin said:


> I have not tried Utopia with DX300 yet, I just received it yesterday or the day before it.


Ah okay. My comment is purely regarding dx300 to uptoia, vs dx300 to c9 to utopia.


----------



## jmills8

Joseph Lin said:


> I tried it already. I like Utopia pairs with WA8 than with C9 by a lot. I have not tried Utopia with DX300 yet, I just received it yesterday or the day before it. Like I said before, WA8 adds warmth to Utopia and Stellia and I like the way it sounds. I cannot stand HD650 with WA8 though. HD650 sounds like Beats with WA8 but sounds great with C9. T1 sounds better with WA8 as well, it removes all the edgy treble from the sound and replaced it with very organic/fluid treble. I have not tried IER-Z1R yet. Too many toys....
> 
> I think we all have different taste...


Because the Utopia lacks sub bass pairing it to a warmer amp helps it.


----------



## DaYooper

jmills8 said:


> Because the Utopia lacks sub bass pairing it to a warmer amp helps it.


That's why I seem to end up with the Klipsch on my head. It has the bass for sure being V-shaped. Pairs nice with the DX220MAX-EX and C9 though.


----------



## cheznous

Whilst I appreciate adapters are easy enough to find, is it not possible to get a good cable with male 4.4mm to 2.5mm make balanced. Must be many other SP2000 owners with C9s.


----------



## piercer

twister6 said:


> Though I'm aware of desktop audio components, tbh, I'm more comfortable with DAPs   In a desktop component setup, matched pre-amp and tube power-amp building blocks should yield a better pair up synergy, but take a look at N8 design diagram below.  If you look at the cleaner LO path vs a more convoluted internal dual amplifier stage, and add tube amp on top of that, you don't know what you are going to get unless you experiment
> 
> But, yeah, switch C9 to Pre-Amp mode (the front panel switch and a side button to activate it) and you should get better results!


Yes, you are absolutely right. The 4.5mm balanced line out would seem to be the obvious choice for connecting the C9. That is probably why I've had the best results so far using it!

TBH I have never got on with the 4.5 balanced SS from the N8, but have alway adored the 3.5 SE valve output. With the C9 I find the solid state implementation a lot more palatable.


----------



## Zambu

cheznous said:


> Whilst I appreciate adapters are easy enough to find, is it not possible to get a good cable with male 4.4mm to 2.5mm make balanced. Must be many other SP2000 owners with C9s.


Is there some degradation of SQ with the adapters? I've been using stock 2.5-->4.4 and 2.5 --> 3.5. of my Clairvoyance (since it came with 2.5 cable) to handle my various use cases but I guess now I might just replace it with a 4.4mm cable since I'll probably be listening mostly from C9 in the coming months... (and use some other IEM at 3.5 when I'm only listening to N3Pro tubes).
Though I've also considered getting better adapters, such as Penon Totem maybe?


----------



## piercer

So - I just realised what I want. I want a portable DAC with line out only. No money spent on internal amplifiers, just an extremely well made DAC with TOTL chips and a game-ending line-out.

It could be in a similar form factor to a DAP and have Android for streaming and sending music from the SD card.

Does anything like this exist?


----------



## gazzington

Gulp, just ordered one from hifonix about 10 mins ago. Going to partner it with dx300, wm1z and n8. What closed backs have great synergy with the c9?


----------



## bluestorm1992

piercer said:


> So - I just realised what I want. I want a portable DAC with line out only. No money spent on internal amplifiers, just an extremely well made DAC with TOTL chips and a game-ending line-out.
> 
> It could be in a similar form factor to a DAP and have Android for streaming and sending music from the SD card.
> 
> Does anything like this exist?


Then you have come to the only and best option: Cayin N6ii with A02 motherboard. A02 is a LO only motherboard and its purity and control of music blows me away every time, (much) better than SP2000’s LO in my own use case.


----------



## soundblast75

So i got the Sony Murata batteries, i don't think i understand, i can't use them until i have the tray or can i charge them independently like with this and change one by one in the existing tray? Thanks
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B08R3DRFLB?ref=ppx_pt2_mob_b_prod_image


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 23, 2021)

gazzington said:


> Gulp, just ordered one from hifonix about 10 mins ago. Going to partner it with dx300, wm1z and n8. What closed backs have great synergy with the c9?


I tried ZMF Verite Closed and it was good. If you go back a few pages, you can see @Andykong recommends a Planar closed back.

Post in thread 'Cayin C9: Dual Nutube, Fully discrete Fully Balanced Class A/AB Portable Headphone Amplifier'
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...able-headphone-amplifier.943135/post-16301846


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 23, 2021)

soundblast75 said:


> So i got the Sony Murata batteries, i don't think i understand, i can't use them until i have the tray or can i charge them independently like with this and change one by one in the existing tray? Thanks
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B08R3DRFLB?ref=ppx_pt2_mob_b_prod_image


Yes you can charge them independently using a charger list you have listed and then just swap them in. I have not done this myself but some others have and should be able to offer more details.

One small caveat, as I recall, is that whenever you remove and reinsert the battery module, it will trigger the protective mode of C9. To activate C9, just plug the usb-c charger to it for a second and it should be ready to go. You can double confirm this later.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 23, 2021)

cheznous said:


> Whilst I appreciate adapters are easy enough to find, is it not possible to get a good cable with male 4.4mm to 2.5mm make balanced. Must be many other SP2000 owners with C9s.


You can probably ask @Eric Chong to make one for you. Shoot him a PM for further inquiry.

I generally want to keep things consistent by having a 4.4 to 4.4 IC cable, and use a 4.4 adapter with SP2000.


----------



## soundblast75

bluestorm1992 said:


> Yes you can charge them independently using a charger list you have listed and then just swap them in. I have not done this myself but some others have and should be able to offer more details.
> 
> One small caveat, as I recall, is that whenever you remove and reinsert the battery module, it will trigger the protective mode of C9. To activate C9, just plug the usb-c charger to it for a second and it should be ready to go. You can double confirm this later.


Thank you, will try it when it arrives, hope i don't do some damage😅


----------



## soundblast75

soundblast75 said:


> Thank you, will try it when it arrives, hope i don't do some damage😅


Well, as it turns out you can't get these batteries anywhere, just got a call from the vendor and he was laughing, said, no idea whats happening, no one's got them..
For now i will have a charger though 😆


----------



## piercer

bluestorm1992 said:


> Then you have come to the only and best option: Cayin N6ii with A02 motherboard. A02 is a LO only motherboard and its purity and control of music blows me away every time, (much) better than SP2000’s LO in my own use case.


OMG that board looks amazing - and exactly what I was looking for. AKM dacs too


----------



## zen87192

piercer said:


> OMG that board looks amazing - and exactly what I was looking for. AKM dacs too


Be quick... only a few A02 Boards left for sale as they were made in low quantity from Cayin. No more will be manufactured now.


----------



## zen87192

Astell and Kern have just released details of their new DAP, SE180, with interchangeable Boards and the DX300 has a dedicated Line Out Board coming out shortly.


----------



## jmills8

soundblast75 said:


> Well, as it turns out you can't get these batteries anywhere, just got a call from the vendor and he was laughing, said, no idea whats happening, no one's got them..
> For now i will have a charger though 😆


Vape shops


----------



## zen87192

bluestorm1992 said:


> Just spoke with Cayin. They have put it back on their Aliexpress.
> 
> 
> US $84.55  5％ Off | Cayin C9 Leather Case Brown Color
> ...


Thanks Bluestorm1992! I've just placed an order for the official C9 case as well as the N6ii case on the Cayin site within Aliexpress today. Thanks for asking them to release more C9 cases on their site. Looking forward to them.


----------



## piercer

So, my wallet is hating me right now. Just bought and N6ii and A02 - What is wrong with me 

I think the A02 is a genius move by Cayin.


----------



## zen87192

piercer said:


> So, my wallet is hating me right now. Just bought and N6ii and A02 - What is wrong with me
> 
> I think the A02 is a genius move by Cayin.



You'll love it! Welcome to the club! 😁🎧


----------



## greenmac

C9 ordered with delivery due on Monday

Hope this lives up to all the hype


----------



## Nostoi (Apr 23, 2021)

gazzington said:


> Gulp, just ordered one from hifonix about 10 mins ago. Going to partner it with dx300, wm1z and n8. What closed backs have great synergy with the c9?


Congrats. Pretty much all of my closed backs sound good on it. TH900 is especially good and it does an excellent job with the ZMF VC.


----------



## Nostoi

I recently re-foamed my Peli 1170 case for the C9 and DAP, and I have to say anyone looking for a protective case, I highly recommend it. Fits perfectly, secures them well, and looks pretty. More storage at bottom for cables/IC, but I prefer it as it is.


----------



## cheznous

soundblast75 said:


> Well, as it turns out you can't get these batteries anywhere, just got a call from the vendor and he was laughing, said, no idea whats happening, no one's got them..
> For now i will have a charger though 😆


I managed to get them from a Vape shop here in the UK. Most out of stock but i got lucky I guess.


----------



## gazzington

Nostoi said:


> Congrats. Pretty much all of my closed backs sound good on it. TH900 is especially good and it does an excellent job with the ZMF VC.


Ace, I have a th900


----------



## Nostoi

gazzington said:


> Ace, I have a th900


I'm also listening to the WP900 now, which I think you have, and this sounds very good, too - the tube mode slightly eases out the top end without taking away the attack/bite. It's such a versatile amp you can "tune" it to different headphones. 

I'm waiting on a balanced cable for TH900, which I think will sound even better on the C9 than in SE mode....


----------



## cheznous

cheznous said:


> I managed to get them from a Vape shop here in the UK. Most out of stock but i got lucky I guess.


I got them from:
https://steameliquid.co.uk/shop/mods-batteries/vtc6-18650/
But alas I must have had last four.


----------



## soundblast75

jmills8 said:


> Vape shops


Yeah apparently noone's got it🤣


----------



## gazzington

I’m wondering whether the c9 tubes would help tame the top end of a beyer t1


----------



## soundblast75

gazzington said:


> I’m wondering whether the c9 tubes would help tame the top end of a beyer t1


Wouldn't have thought so, it's still forward sounding amp with lots of frequency extensions both ends, it's not gonna smooth out anything, i might be wrong, hope someone mire knowledgeable chimes in


----------



## Whitigir

Toys after toys and after toys!! My wallets need to ban me from accessing it 
The battles of 2 Titans: Modulars, Dual Korg tubes, and 18650 batteries


----------



## Nostoi

soundblast75 said:


> Wouldn't have thought so, it's still forward sounding amp with lots of frequency extensions both ends, it's not gonna smooth out anything, i might be wrong, hope someone mire knowledgeable chimes in


I wouldn't say it tames top end, but on my bright headphones it smooths any hint of sibilance without losing detail, at least on tube mode. Not sure about T1. I had the T1 for a while and found it had one of the strangest tunings I've ever heard in a headphone. I could see the 1770/1990 working really nicely, tho, with the C9.


----------



## cheznous

cheznous said:


> I got them from:
> https://steameliquid.co.uk/shop/mods-batteries/vtc6-18650/
> But alas I must have had last four.


Amazon UK do have the EFEST in stock
EFEST 3.5K mah 20A IMR High Drain Flat Top Single​


----------



## Jeffyue (Apr 23, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> Then you have come to the only and best option: Cayin N6ii with A02 motherboard. A02 is a LO only motherboard and its purity and control of music blows me away every time, (much) better than SP2000’s LO in my own use case.


Actually wanna ask if anyone can give a comparison between N6ii+A02 vs. E02 when LO to C9.

I have seen lots of posts talking about the nice sound from A02, but seems nothing much from E02.  The only one I can find seems to be in the Twister6 C9 review..

If the sound of E02 is not that far behind from A02, I may wanna go to the E02 as I will have a DAP for daily usage when I don't want to bring the C9 along.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 23, 2021)

Jeffyue said:


> Actually wanna ask if anyone can give a comparison between N6ii+A02 vs. E02 when LO to C9.
> 
> I have seen lots of posts talking about the nice sound from A02, but seems nothing much from E02.  The only one I can find seems to be in the Twister6 C9 review..
> 
> If the sound of E02 is not that far behind from A02, I may wanna go to the E02 as I will have a DAP for daily usage when I don't want to bring the C9 along.


The LO from E02 is OK, but lacking in both soundstage size and clarity in sound compared to A02.

Honestly, if you are just going to buy a new N6ii with E02, there are better options with a similar LO quality but better UI, such as DX300. From today’s angle, a new N6ii is worth it only when paired with A02 IMHO.


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> The LO from E02 is OK, but lacking in both soundstage size and clarity in sound compared to A02.
> 
> Honestly, if you are just going to buy a N6ii with E02, there are better options with a similar LO quality but better UI, such as DX300. *From today’s angle, a new N6ii is worth it only when paired with A02 IMHO.*


I have to totally agree


----------



## soundblast75

cheznous said:


> Amazon UK do have the EFEST in stock
> EFEST 3.5K mah 20A IMR High Drain Flat Top Single​


Why is this a good one?
They have several..


----------



## lumdicks

Whitigir said:


> Toys after toys and after toys!! My wallets need to ban me from accessing it
> The battles of 2 Titans: Modulars, Dual Korg tubes, and 18650 batteries


WOW! Share your view as soon as possible please!


----------



## lumdicks

My setup completed finally. Time to stop buying and enjoy. As I shared previously, C9 scales up excellently with source so after adding the M Scaler in my chain, the sound from C9 further improves on imaging, layering and high low extension.

Roon → Lumin U1 Mini (transport) → Chord M Scaler (upsampling) → Chord Hugo TT2 (Preamp and DAC) → Cayin C9 (Poweramp)


----------



## bluestorm1992

lumdicks said:


> My setup completed finally. Time to stop buying and enjoy. As I shared previously, C9 scales up excellently with source so after adding the M Scaler in my chain, the sound from C9 further improves on imaging, layering and high low extension.
> 
> Roon → Lumin U1 Mini (transport) → Chord M Scaler (upsampling) → Chord Hugo TT2 (Preamp and DAC) → Cayin C9 (Poweramp)


Man you have such a wonderful setup, congrats!

Time to let them sit for a while and enjoy them indeed, but who knows, maybe you will get dragged into another purchase one day after visiting HF.


----------



## Andykong (Apr 23, 2021)

piercer said:


> Yes, you are absolutely right. The 4.5mm balanced line out would seem to be the obvious choice for connecting the C9. That is probably why I've had the best results so far using it!
> 
> TBH I have never got on with the 4.5 balanced SS from the N8, but have alway adored the 3.5 SE valve output. With the C9 I find the solid state implementation a lot more palatable.




If you look at the timbre circuit of N8, we used an OPA series op-amp as alternative to Nutube 6P1, so the different is fairly obvious.  With C9, we have designed a discrete component based Solid State audio circuit based on two matched pairs of high quality low noise Toshiba 2SK209 JFET as alternative to Nutube, so the solid state of C9 is indeed comparable to the vacuum tube timbre.


----------



## Whitigir

Andykong said:


> If you look at the timbre circuit of N8, we used an OPA series op-amp as alternative to Nutube 6P1, so the different is fairly obvious.  With C9, we have designed a discrete component based Solid State audio circuit based on two matched pairs of high quality low noise Toshiba 2SK209 JFET as alternative to Nutube, so the solid state of C9 is indeed comparable to the vacuum tube timbre.


I can second this, Toshiba JFET has always had that reputation of being more fluid and tubes like


----------



## Andykong

gazzington said:


> I’m wondering whether the c9 tubes would help tame the top end of a beyer t1



But T1 is 600 Ohm, unless you just bought the latest T1 v3.  This is marginally to battery based C9.


----------



## Andykong

bluestorm1992 said:


> The LO from E02 is OK, but lacking in both soundstage size and clarity in sound compared to A02.
> 
> Honestly, if you are just going to buy a new N6ii with E02, there are better options with a similar LO quality but better UI, such as DX300. From today’s angle, a new N6ii is worth it only when paired with A02 IMHO.



LO quality of DX300 is better then N6ii with E02? as of today?


----------



## Whitigir

Andykong said:


> LO quality of DX300 is better then N6ii with E02? as of today?


Afraid not, the upcoming module with dedicated line out possibly ? Because it also has modular design, so the possibilities are there.  It just has a very beefy processing main unit


----------



## bluestorm1992

Andykong said:


> LO quality of DX300 is better then N6ii with E02? as of today?


I guess it is the similar? I did not check it myself. At least I can say that A02’s LO is a lot better than E02’s. The difference is especially noticeable in long listening sessions.

UI-wise DX300 is better though.


----------



## Andykong

piercer said:


> So, Cayin, I now need a matching case for my N8. I have the Dignis black one for it currently but it is getting pretty tatty. Is it possible to buy one that matches the C9 case?




Sorry, we didn't make N8 case with that color/pattern, and we'll unlikely make a new case for N8..


----------



## DaYooper

Andykong said:


> Sorry, we didn't make N8 case with that color/pattern, and we'll unlikely make a new case for N8..


Uhm, I don't need a case for N8, But I do wonder about a battery tray for C9 ??


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> Afraid not, the upcoming module with dedicated line out possibly ? Because it also has modular design, so the possibilities are there.  It just has a very beefy processing main unit


I am just surprised.  I understand DX300 is modular design so everything is possible down the road, but as-of-today, I am just surprised.


----------



## Andykong

DaYooper said:


> Uhm, I don't need a case for N8, But I do wonder about a battery tray for C9 ??



Working on the user manual already, stay tune.


----------



## gazzington

Andykong said:


> But T1 is 600 Ohm, unless you just bought the latest T1 v3.  This is marginally to battery based C9.


Whoops, yeah your right the 2nd gen is 600ohm. Thought it was just the first one.


----------



## Andykong

cheznous said:


> Thank you but Orbtronic are not available in the UK. Most popular seems to be the Molicel.
> Also I note the second one is a button top and I thought C9 used Flat tops?





cheznous said:


> Sorry I do have another question. Does it matter if the batteries are 10A rather than 20A?



Yes, C9 uses flat top "unprotected" version 18650

Electrically, 10A is a lot already, it will work fine.  20A will only have advantage in terms of headroom, which is not easy to identify.


----------



## Andykong

Hanyong said:


> Thank you, I tried adx5k a few days ago, the sound is a bit thin, it may be related to my use of a02 pre out, I will try it when I have a chance.



That probably because he used C9 with ATH-AWKT rated at 48 Ohm, 102 dB/mW, a much easier load for C9.  AD5000K is a high impedance can rated at 420 Ohm, so totally different power and handling requirements.


----------



## fuhransahis (Apr 23, 2021)

Dear @Andykong ,

My birthday is in May, and if you want to give me a C9 as a present I would not be angry with you at all.

Yours truly,
fuhransahis

(Picture on the cake is of course Andy)


----------



## piercer

Andykong said:


> If you look at the timbre circuit of N8, we used an OPA series op-amp as alternative to Nutube 6P1, so the different is fairly obvious.  With C9, we have designed a discrete component based Solid State audio circuit based on two matched pairs of high quality low noise Toshiba 2SK209 JFET as alternative to Nutube, so the solid state of C9 is indeed comparable to the vacuum tube timbre.


It's really noticable. I never listen to the solids state implementation of the N8, but today I listened to the solid state side of the C9 for many hours. It's really good! It was driven by the 4.4 Balanced LO of the n8. I am looking forward to comparing that to the 4.4 Balanced LO of the A02.


----------



## Andykong

Zambu said:


> Joining the C9 crew! Got mine yesterday and very impressed this morning with my listening sessions. So far I've been using N3Pro from 4.4. LO, Thieaudio Clairvoyance and at C9 end tubes at Class A. I do have some settings (such as pre-mode) and gear to test, but most importantly I just want to listen to my library of great music   Looking forward to many years with this hot brick and also interesting to read about synergies with IEMs, DAPs etc.
> 
> Took a while with the shipment... of course the few weeks of pre-order wait was expected (could have been more), but the package spent three weeks on the way (mostly just inefficient customs/post at my end and the Easter holidays). Here's an accurate depiction of the last couple of weeks of wait time:
> 
> ...



If you are using 3.5mm phone out from C9, I definitely recommend 3.5mm line out from N3Pro to C9.

If you are using 4.4mm phone out from C9, worth comparing 3.5mm true line out vs 4.4mm shared line out from N3Pro.  I do suspect 4.4mm shared line out will work better in this case, but since its free, so better check it out just in case.


----------



## Andykong

Hanyong said:


> I have bx2. For driving HEDDphone, c9 is much better than bx2. This is better than bx2.



Another big surprised, and this is a happy one.  Must find an opportunity to check out HEDDphone with C9, this is surprisingly exciting.


----------



## Andykong

Joseph Lin said:


> How's Empyrean's treble? I heard several comments on the trouble of treble in the Youtube reviews. Does C9 pair it better than Stellia? I am considering buying Empyrean.



I read a lot of comment saying Empyrean is lacking behind on technicality, that's quite true if you AB compare it with other TOTL headphone that is very strong on resolution. IMHO, Empyrean is not lacking behind, Meze just adopted a different take here.  Antonio spend a lot of effort to design Empyrean as THE most comfortable headphone to wear on, and that is an important building block to make Empyrean enjoyable for long hours of listening.  To achieve the later, Empyrean is tuned to sound natural (instead of neutral), musical, slightly warm, and pleasant enough to continue even after several hour of listening. 

As a result of that, the high frequency of Empyrean will be labelled as mellow, non-sparkling and maybe lack of energy base on 10-20 minutes of intensive listening.  To me, a totalling different story if I listen to Empyrean after 2-3 hours.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Andykong said:


> I read a lot of comment saying Empyrean is lacking behind on technicality, that's quite true if you AB compare it with other TOTL headphone that is very strong on resolution. IMHO, Empyrean is not lacking behind, Meze just adopted a different take here.  Antonio spend a lot of effort to design Empyrean as THE most comfortable headphone to wear on, and that is an important building block to make Empyrean enjoyable for long hours of listening.  To achieve the later, Empyrean is tuned to sound natural (instead of neutral), musical, slightly warm, and pleasant enough to continue even after several hour of listening.
> 
> As a result of that, the high frequency of Empyrean will be labelled as mellow, non-sparkling and maybe lack of energy base on 10-20 minutes of intensive listening.  To me, a totalling different story if I listen to Empyrean after 2-3 hours.


Now you make me want to try Empyrean. I almost bought it previously, but picked up the Mason FS instead. Perhaps Empyrean should be on my future purchase list again.


----------



## Zambu

Andykong said:


> If you are using 3.5mm phone out from C9, I definitely recommend 3.5mm line out from N3Pro to C9.
> 
> If you are using 4.4mm phone out from C9, worth comparing 3.5mm true line out vs 4.4mm shared line out from N3Pro.  I do suspect 4.4mm shared line out will work better in this case, but since its free, so better check it out just in case.



Most of my listening is with 4.4.mm phone out from C9 and so far I've just gone with full balanced with 4.4 LO from N3Pro. I don't recall if there was much of comparing lineouts (I'll probably do some more later) but that one feels right and I also like how the 4.4 LO is quite clear at N3Pro end with the menu switch and the pop-up message for entering LO. 
I'll probably also use some occasional 3.5mm phones so I'll remember to go full SE-->SE for those cases.


----------



## RTodd (Apr 23, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> Now you make me want to try Empyrean. I almost bought it previously, but picked up the Mason FS instead. Perhaps Empyrean should be on my future purchase list again.


It really is a beautiful design, do not know if you saw the machining video for it, it is cool.


----------



## Whitigir

Zambu said:


> Most of my listening is with 4.4.mm phone out from C9 and so far I've just gone with full balanced with 4.4 LO from N3Pro. I don't recall if there was much of comparing lineouts (I'll probably do some more later) but that one feels right and I also like how the 4.4 LO is quite clear at N3Pro end with the menu switch and the pop-up message for entering LO.
> I'll probably also use some occasional 3.5mm phones so I'll remember to go full SE-->SE for those cases.


Just remember if you are using SE...Do not charge the devices from the same outlet or same sources.  It will trigger protection mode and May damage the sources 

I recommend using 4.4mm without ground connected


----------



## gazzington

Andykong said:


> I read a lot of comment saying Empyrean is lacking behind on technicality, that's quite true if you AB compare it with other TOTL headphone that is very strong on resolution. IMHO, Empyrean is not lacking behind, Meze just adopted a different take here.  Antonio spend a lot of effort to design Empyrean as THE most comfortable headphone to wear on, and that is an important building block to make Empyrean enjoyable for long hours of listening.  To achieve the later, Empyrean is tuned to sound natural (instead of neutral), musical, slightly warm, and pleasant enough to continue even after several hour of listening.
> 
> As a result of that, the high frequency of Empyrean will be labelled as mellow, non-sparkling and maybe lack of energy base on 10-20 minutes of intensive listening.  To me, a totalling different story if I listen to Empyrean after 2-3 hours.


I agree. The empyrean gets slated on several YouTube channels. Yes it’s not as detailed as say an utopia but after a couple of hours I’d rather keep the empyrean on my head


----------



## bluestorm1992

With my recent listening experience, I have acknowledged the importance of having a comfortable and not-so-detailed IEM/headphone in my collection. 

For IEMs, like Traillii or headphones like Diana V2, they are so high-res and will draw all of your attention into the music. Very good for music appreciation but "bad" for me when I want to do some work while listening to music. I have found myself using EST112 for this reason as DD IEMs are nowhere as resolving but have the smooth timbre comfortable in long listening sessions. I can see that Empyrean can do the same job as well.


----------



## Andykong

Joseph Lin said:


> Just took out my ancient Cayin i5 from closet with bloated battery. The back plate was pushed open by the battery. I replaced the battery and is curious if it will pair well with C9. First try with HD650 and it is amazing. Taylor Siwft's new album (don't judge me...) Fearless's first few seconds' drum is so realistic I was shocked. WA8's drum is deeper but C9 is more realistic and the treble is so crisp and clean. I am very surprised C9 can turn my i5 into a high end DAP! I abandoned it many years ago because I do not like its warm sound, but C9 makes it sound so good, I am shocked. I then switched to use KZ Zax iem(low end disposable earbud) and it sounds even better, better than HD650! I cannot believe KZ Zax can sound this good. It is a very easy to drive IEM but C9 makes it sound like a mid/high range IEM.
> 
> One interesting find is pairing C9 with DX300 does not really improve much, tried many combinations and the result is the same. Dx300 sounds cleaner than DX300+C9. If you also have this combo, please share how to make DX300 sound better with C9.
> 
> Looks like C9 pairs really good with mid-range/old DAPs and mid/old headphones.



Your i5 is still working alright after you changed the battery? i5 is the a very warm sounding DAP. more so than any other Cayin DAP. It might be lacking behind on digital audio performance, its analog circuit is actually very good even by today standard (well, with the exception of single-ended only).  The line out is properly implemented and bypassed the headphone amp circuit completely, so it didn't share the warm sound signature.


----------



## Zambu (Apr 23, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> Just remember if you are using SE...Do not charge the devices from the same outlet or same sources.  It will trigger protection mode and May damage the sources
> 
> I recommend using 4.4mm without ground connected


I don't understand all the details, so I just charge my Cayin devices with a separate charger and only when I'm not using them. Not a big issue since I listen like 2-3 hours in a day max (with earphones/headfi, listening with speakers might be more sometimes...)


----------



## bluestorm1992

Zambu said:


> I don't understand all the details, so I just charge my Cayin devices with a separate charger and only when I'm not using them. Not a big issue since I listen like 2-3 hours in a day max.


Indeed, this is the simplest and best practice to protect C9 and your source gears.


----------



## Joseph Lin

Andykong said:


> Your i5 is still working alright after you changed the battery? i5 is the a very warm sounding DAP. more so than any other Cayin DAP. It might be lacking behind on digital audio performance, its analog circuit is actually very good even by today standard (well, with the exception of single-ended only).  The line out is properly implemented and bypassed the headphone amp circuit completely, so it didn't share the warm sound signature.


It is still working great!  I replaced the battery by cutting the old battery out and installed a new one. It is a very easy process because the backplate was pushed out by the bloated battery. I did not glue the backplate on but a transparent tape is holding them together. Now I can replace battery whenever I want. It is working like a modern new DAP using LO to C9. The sound is comparable to DX300. The PO on i5 is really not my taste.


----------



## Andykong

soundblast75 said:


> Well, as it turns out you can't get these batteries anywhere, just got a call from the vendor and he was laughing, said, no idea whats happening, no one's got them..
> For now i will have a charger though 😆



Maybe this is short-term shortage?  18650 was widely used in many countries, can't imagine they were sold out and inventory not refilled.  In fact, we picked 18650 because it is widely available worldwide.


----------



## Andykong

lumdicks said:


> C9 scales up amazingly with the source. I have paired my Chord Hugo TT2 under preamp mode to C9 with Pre In, and the result is astonishing! TT2 is a powerful headphone amp by itself with transparent and neutral sound but with C9 under Tube A mode, the overall improvement is surprisingly obvious with more holographic soundstage, better control and wonderful dynamics, while the Chord signature sound is well preserved.
> 
> Roon --> Lumin U1 Mini (Transport) --> Chord Hugo TT2 (Dac and Preamp) --> Cayin C9 (power amp) --> Focal Stellia = Heaven of Music





lumdicks said:


> I think Stellia is one of the best closed end headphones which is very resolving, mid-forward with sparkled treble. Imaging is good and soundstage is even more wider than many open-ended headphones. But I think it is not very musical and not always able to draw myself to the emotion of the music. From other users it needs a rather long period of break-in so I hope it will keep improving. For me, Empyrean is way more musical and engaging, and is my favourite now.
> 
> The Obravo HAMT3 MKII is also very enjoyable with smooth and extended treble from its AMT unit and at the same time deep and strong bass from its DD. At its price level it is a steal for me.





lumdicks said:


> My setup completed finally. Time to stop buying and enjoy. As I shared previously, C9 scales up excellently with source so after adding the M Scaler in my chain, the sound from C9 further improves on imaging, layering and high low extension.
> 
> Roon → Lumin U1 Mini (transport) → Chord M Scaler (upsampling) → Chord Hugo TT2 (Preamp and DAC) → Cayin C9 (Poweramp)



Completely final?

Since you like  Obravo HAMT3 MKII a lot, maybe you should check out HAMT2? or even HAMT1?

By the way, I am very excited to know from you that C9 is an upgrade from the amp section of HugoTT.  This is unexpected, and probably no one will expect until you shared your impression.


----------



## Andykong

lumdicks said:


> C9 scales up amazingly with the source. I have paired my Chord Hugo TT2 under preamp mode to C9 with Pre In, and the result is astonishing! TT2 is a powerful headphone amp by itself with transparent and neutral sound but with C9 under Tube A mode, the overall improvement is surprisingly obvious with more holographic soundstage, better control and wonderful dynamics, while the Chord signature sound is well preserved.
> 
> Roon --> Lumin U1 Mini (Transport) --> Chord Hugo TT2 (Dac and Preamp) --> Cayin C9 (power amp) --> Focal Stellia = Heaven of Music





lumdicks said:


> I think Stellia is one of the best closed end headphones which is very resolving, mid-forward with sparkled treble. Imaging is good and soundstage is even more wider than many open-ended headphones. But I think it is not very musical and not always able to draw myself to the emotion of the music. From other users it needs a rather long period of break-in so I hope it will keep improving. For me, Empyrean is way more musical and engaging, and is my favourite now.
> 
> The Obravo HAMT3 MKII is also very enjoyable with smooth and extended treble from its AMT unit and at the same time deep and strong bass from its DD. At its price level it is a steal for me.





lumdicks said:


> My setup completed finally. Time to stop buying and enjoy. As I shared previously, C9 scales up excellently with source so after adding the M Scaler in my chain, the sound from C9 further improves on imaging, layering and high low extension.
> 
> Roon → Lumin U1 Mini (transport) → Chord M Scaler (upsampling) → Chord Hugo TT2 (Preamp and DAC) → Cayin C9 (Poweramp)



Completely final?

Since you like  Obravo HAMT3 MKII a lot, maybe you should check out HAMT2? or even HAMT1?

By the way, I am very excited to know from you that C9 is an upgrade from the amp section of HugoTT.  This is unexpected, and probably no one will expect until you shared your impression.


----------



## immortalsoul

Andykong said:


> Sorry, we didn't make N8 case with that color/pattern, and we'll unlikely make a new case for N8..


Your answer let me believe that soon we are going to have a N8 succesor and the Cayin think of N8 as a product that belong to the past


----------



## soundblast75

I have to ask again sorry, is Efest brand tried by anyone, doesn't look like something that'll be great sounding 🙄😅


----------



## gazzington

immortalsoul said:


> Your answer let me believe that soon we are going to have a N8 succesor and the Cayin think of N8 as a product that belong to the past


The n8 will always sound great, even if a new flagship gets released


----------



## Andykong

piercer said:


> So - its arrived. For now all I'm saying is WOW!
> 
> Its a really well made piece of kit - oozes quality. Ooodles of power into my Laylas.
> 
> ...





piercer said:


> It gets warm! 🔥





piercer said:


> This is really working for me.
> 
> Cayin dudes - a question for you. What would be the recommended way to connect from the tube output of the N8 to the C9?





piercer said:


> You've never heard of a tube pre-amp and a tube power-amp  I am trying to recreate that in a portable format?
> 
> From my one experiment today: N8 3.5mm P+ Low Gain SE tube output -> 3.5mm input on C9 -> balanced class a tube output, I think I may have glimpsed something magical! However both volume controls were engaged, which is not ideal. I don't think you can set line out on the tube output of the n8, but I might be wrong. Therefore I will have to put the C9 into pure power amp mode where the volume is controlled by the N8, however the one time I did that today it was a bit noisy. I'll try again tomorrow.



Thank you for your WOW impression 

Offically, we don't recommend to connect from N8 tube output to C9, you are using the 3.5mm tube mode phone out from N8 as pre-amp, technically feasible but not desirable.  If you look at the following functional diagram, the green line represent the 3.5mm line out, 4.4mm line out is basically identical to that in terms of processes that you need to go through.  The Red line is path of the tube 3.5mm line out.  It is obvious that the Red line go through a lot more amplification process.  This very different form tube pre-amp.


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> Look to me like a new motherboard
> 
> But with @Andykong stating that Cayin wasn’t interest in making anymore modules for N6ii .  Together with a tease of another N device .  Then the picture look like a module
> 
> ...



Well, my original wording was:
_We do not have any Audio Motherboard in our development plan after A02, so unless a very innovative and feasible idea comes up down the road, this is it._

And I said this on Sep 26, 2020, a lot of things happens after 7 months.


----------



## Whitigir

Andykong said:


> Well, my original wording was:
> _We do not have any Audio Motherboard in our development plan after A02, so unless a *very innovative and feasible *idea comes up down the road, this is it._
> 
> And I said this on Sep 26, 2020, a lot of things happens after 7 months.


Alright!!!! 
That means An R2R Modules Mahahaha


----------



## RTodd

Whitigir said:


> Alright!!!!
> That means An R2R Modules Mahahaha


----------



## Andykong

bigbeans said:


> I took delivery of DUNU ZEN today and had a very interesting experience that I would like to share. Thank you @bluestorm1992 in advance for being part of this journey with me and sharing his knowledge and experience with these audio gears. It's amazing what C9 can do for some iems.
> 
> Cayin C9 is designed for IEMs but I admit, I purchased it to serve double duty for my efficient headphones (Stellia, Z1R, Empyrean, HER10P). Until today, I haven’t appreciated the difference an amp like C9 can do for an iem. Many reviewers classify ZEN as a ‘sensitive’ iem. This leads many to believe that ZEN sips power and all you need is a dongle for them. This couldn’t be farther from the truth in my experience.
> 
> ...



Another very exciting impression.  Thank you. 

When I said "IEMs remain as the primary target of C9 portable headphone amp.", typical response was like THIS or THIS. When we read endorsement from satisfying customer, saying C9 worth the price we asked for, and even IEM users will agree with that, we feel good, really good.


----------



## cheznous

soundblast75 said:


> I have to ask again sorry, is Efest brand tried by anyone, doesn't look like something that'll be great sounding 🙄😅


The spec is very similar to the Sony VTC6. They are also available unlike the Sony. Yes they work.


----------



## soundblast75

cheznous said:


> The spec is very similar to the Sony VTC6. They are also available unlike the Sony. Yes they work.


Working i don't doubt, but i only buy them if they sound as good, i thought somebody has reported that earlier amd i missed it, thanks😆


----------



## Andykong (Apr 23, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> Now that we are on this topic, I figure I can share a bit more about the engineering idea behind C9's performance and capability.
> 
> A while ago, I had a discussion in Michael's thread with gler about why there is the need to have C9 for IEMs. The common argument is any modern DAP will have plenty of power to drive most of the IEMs, so a better, even independent Amp is no need. However, this certainly does not explain why we see the performance differences between TOTL DAPs and mid-tier DAPs, even from the same brand. Hiby R8 performs better than R6 2020, even though on paper R6 has plenty of power. Also, this difference is clearly not just a tuning thing, but rather an elevation in lots of technical aspects such as soundstage, details, imaging, among many others.
> 
> ...



Indeed, a lot of users assumes rated power output is the main or even the only factor that matters when come to predict whether a particular amplifier can drive a particular pair of headphone or speaker satisfactory, but the story is far from that. 

I don't know the original wording from Liang, but I can figure out a lot of them because we have numerous exchanges along this line in past few year.  However my choice of wording might be different, I'll try to share my view in the simplified terms.

To me, DYNAMIC is the most important factor to judge whether a particular amplifier can drive a particular pair of headphone satisfactory.  I totally don't believe the calculation that you need x watt to drive a pair of headphone at y db/w sensitivity to certain loudness.   The biggest part is whether you can hear all the dynamic of your music passage has called for when your headphone is driven by that particular amplifier.   If the dynamic is compress or congested,  the amp. is not "strong" enough for that pair of headphone. 

So what is transient?  To me, this is the ability to reproduce rapidly changing dynamics (electronically, changes in voltage).  This is an important but frequently neglected aspects of dynamic.  When we talk about dynamic, a lot of audiophiles will look for kickdrum or Taiko in their music collection, that's macro dynamic.  However micro dynamic such as the bow movement of a violin is the attribute that "put your right there", and transient is, in many cases carry emotion from the music notes to your heart.  So yes, to get the transient right is a very important benchmark in the assessment.

What about "drivers should move in a manner exactly as we want them to be"?  Of course that is important, this is the basic conditions to reproduce  macro dynamic, micro dynamic and transient of your music correctly.  I describe this as control:, whether an amplifier can control a pair of headphone properly.  Improper control can be related to  electrical characteristic of your amplifier, or it can be a synergy issue (phone out with high output impedance paring with low impedance headphone).  It will not only affect dynamic but also affect sound signature to certain extend.  The 30Hz square rate and 300Hz square wave curve adopted by Tyll are very good tools to understand this concept (HERE):




I hope this can explain why we enjoy powerful amp like C9 with highly sensitive IEM such as Campfire Solaris and Oriolus Traillii, it has nothing to do with loudness, its all about dynamics.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Andykong said:


> Indeed, a lot of users assumes rated power output is the main or even the only factor that matters when come to predict whether a particular amplifier can drive a particular pair of headphone or speaker satisfactory, but the story is far from that.
> 
> I don't know the original wording from Liang, but I can figure out a lot of them because we have numerous exchanges along this line in past few year.  However my choice of wording might be different, I'll try to share my view in the simplified terms.
> 
> ...


Awesome.   So micro and macro dynamics are more important criteria for determining the quality of an amp than power.   That actually makes sense.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Andykong said:


> Indeed, a lot of users assumes rated power output is the main or even the only factor that matters when come to predict whether a particular amplifier can drive a particular pair of headphone or speaker satisfactory, but the story is far from that.
> 
> I don't know the original wording from Liang, but I can figure out a lot of them because we have numerous exchanges along this line in past few year.  However my choice of wording might be different, I'll try to share my view in the simplified terms.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for your explanation Andy!!! Greatly appreciate this.



HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Awesome.   So micro and macro dynamics are more important criteria for determining the quality of an amp than power.   That actually makes sense.


Indeed. I think part of the challenge is that power rating is something that can be easily measured and is usually available for most of the products, while the ability to manage dynamics does not seem to be something that can be easily measured or reflected by the numbers. Maybe there is such a measure that I just don't know about? If that is the case it will be aweson, cause this means that we should now expand the set of things we look at when considering purchasing an Amp.


----------



## Whitigir

Andykong said:


> Indeed, a lot of users assumes rated power output is the main or even the only factor that matters when come to predict whether a particular amplifier can drive a particular pair of headphone or speaker satisfactory, but the story is far from that.
> 
> I don't know the original wording from Liang, but I can figure out a lot of them because we have numerous exchanges along this line in past few year.  However my choice of wording might be different, I'll try to share my view in the simplified terms.
> 
> ...


I have to totally agree


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> Thanks so much for your explanation Andy!!! Greatly appreciate this.
> 
> 
> Indeed. I think part of the challenge is that power rating is something that can be easily measured and is usually available for most of the products, while the ability to manage dynamics does not seem to be something that can be easily measured or reflected by the numbers. Maybe there is such a measure that I just don't know about? If that is the case it will be aweson, cause this means that we should now expand the set of things we look at when considering purchasing an Amp.


I feel like my audiophile IQ went up by 2 points after this discussion.   It makes up for the 2 points I lost in the cables discussion.


----------



## cheznous

soundblast75 said:


> Working i don't doubt, but i only buy them if they sound as good, i thought somebody has reported that earlier amd i missed it, thanks😆


They are very similar spec batteries and sound the same in my opinion. 
I remain sceptical different batteries with the same spec sound better or worse. 
No doubt some will argue they do and no doubt the most expensive will sound the best.


----------



## bluestorm1992

cheznous said:


> They are very similar spec batteries and sound the same in my opinion.
> I remain sceptical different batteries with the same spec sound better or worse.
> No doubt some will argue they do and no doubt the most expensive will sound the best.


Fortunately, 18650 batteries are generally not expensive (aside from the current availability issue), so it may be part of the fun to “roll batteries” if one gets curious.  This is much more affordable compared to something like rolling Op Amps or cables.


----------



## soundblast75

cheznous said:


> They are very similar spec batteries and sound the same in my opinion.
> I remain sceptical different batteries with the same spec sound better or worse.
> No doubt some will argue they do and no doubt the most expensive will sound the best.


What charger do you have?


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 23, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> Fortunately, 18650 batteries are generally not expensive (aside from the current availability issue), so it may be part of the fun to “roll batteries” if one gets curious.  This is much more affordable compared to something like rolling Op Amps or cables.


Or rolling tubes and records.

Same values capacitors with different constructions don’t sound the same by the way.  In facts, their Datasheets will be different as well


----------



## Marat Sar (Apr 23, 2021)

Just got my c9 yesterday. Been experimenting all day, and felt like I need to share my impressions. Someone said in a review that the c9 is the single biggest leap forward they've ever made to their chain. And they had very impressive IEMs and DAPS to show.

Some of it might be new toy shine, but I feel the same now. Not even going from my Shure 535 to JH Audio Layla in 2015 impressed me so immediately, as when I finally got my SP2000 DAP balanced out into C9, and then a balanced Iliad cable running into my u18t. I went from:
SP2000 -- Iliad -- u18t
to
SP2000 -- *c9 *-- Iliad -- u18t

And that's the most dramatic jump in sound quality I've heard to date. Sounds like what I expected high quality desktop amps to sound like. Mind you, I've never listened to my IEMs out of a desktop solution, or anything with tubes either. Strictly (trans)portable for me up until this. And solid state. And now the c9 gives me that SQ update... plus tube magic! I did not understand how constricted I was by the tiny amps in my portable DAPs until now. And how much that tube euphonic quality adds.

The soundstage is so, so much larger. Dramatically. Like plus 60% in height, width and depth. Compared to naked SP2000. Everything sounds so much more imposing, and there's so much more detail too. But not only that -- there's improved dynamics, tube euphonics... I feel like all the previous audio chains I've listened to -- with their tiny portable amps -- have basically played me quirky but likeable mistakes. Some more enjoyable, some less, but all mistakes none the less. Congested, truncated, harsh, unnatural. And just now I'm beginning to hear the actual sounds like they were meant to be. I'm also beginning to understand why people in the hifi scene are so obsessed with amps. Some have 500.000 amps the size of a fridge. Paradoxically, the better (and often BIGGER) the amp is the more it gets out of the way. I'd heard about this, of course, but I didn't quite understand what people mean. Because even in the SP2000, I'd never heard a really good amp yet.

The c9 is really really good. It's almost single-handedly brought back stacks -- and MEGA-STACKS, too. (Since it's so big.) I understand why everyone is getting one -- it's very hard to go back from this. The ease, the smoothness, the vast, majestic grandness of the music. I also got the case and it says, in typical ostentatious copy: NEVER BE THE SAME AGAIN. Pretty intimidating.

I'm beginning to thing Cayin weren't kidding when they said that. Can't see myself going back to amps below The Majesty of C9.

Honestly, 2000 is kinda cheap for what it does.

Tl;dr I'm a happy puppy. Music is glory.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Marat Sar said:


> Just got my c9 yesterday. Been experimenting all day, and felt like I need to share my impressions. Someone said in a review that the c9 is the single biggest leap forward upgrade they've ever made to their chain. And they had like sp2000, and very impressive IEMs to show.
> 
> Some of it is certainly new toy shine, but I feel the same. Not even going from Shure 535 to JH Audio Layla IEM impressed me so immediately, as when I finally got my SP2000 balanced out into the C9 and then a balanced Iliad cable running into my u18t. I went from
> 
> ...


Congrats and welcome to the club! Glad to know that you have found C9 working well in your gears.


----------



## RTodd

Marat Sar said:


> Just got my c9 yesterday. Been experimenting all day, and felt like I need to share my impressions. Someone said in a review that the c9 is the single biggest leap forward they've ever made to their chain. And they had very impressive IEMs and DAPS to show.
> 
> Some of it might be new toy shine, but I feel the same now. Not even going from my Shure 535 to JH Audio Layla in 2015 impressed me so immediately, as when I finally got my SP2000 DAP balanced out into C9, and then a balanced Iliad cable running into my u18t. I went from:
> SP2000 -- Iliad -- u18t
> ...


Really making me anxious for tomorrow. 
I need to hear this C9 orgasmifier.


----------



## aaf evo

RTodd said:


> Really making me anxious for tomorrow.
> I need to hear this C9 orgasmifier.



IMO, it is awesome. However, going from PAW 6000 and adding the C9 also almost makes the Traillii TOO large/open, it’s actually incredible how much the sound expands. I will crank the volume a bit more to compensate but my god, what a damn listen it is.


----------



## Whitigir

Marat Sar said:


> *Honestly, 2000 is kinda cheap for what it does.*


Pretty much TOTL and pretty much agreed with this statement


----------



## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> Pretty much TOTL and pretty much agreed with this statement


And its value scales up even more for users with both IEMs and headphones... just pure magic and great value.


----------



## bluestorm1992

RTodd said:


> Really making me anxious for tomorrow.
> I need to hear this C9 orgasmifier.


Probably shouldn’t raise your expectation too high as there is ultimately an element of sound preference in it. Just wait until tomorrow and you will be able to hear it yourself.


----------



## fuhransahis

Marat Sar said:


> Honestly, 2000 is kinda cheap for what it does.










Whitigir said:


> Pretty much TOTL and pretty much agreed with this statement


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> Probably shouldn’t raise your expectation too high as there is ultimately an element of sound preference in it. Just wait until tomorrow and you will be able to hear it yourself.


Sound preferences aside, good sound performances is ... “good sound performances” 

Now, the source .... Even as good as SP2K....it still has pseudo LO....ooohhh


----------



## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> Sound preferences aside, good sound performances is ... “good sound performances”
> 
> Now, the source .... Even as good as SP2K....it still has pseudo LO....ooohhh


My SP2000 would have been gone by now if it does not have Roon support.


----------



## blackgreen15 (Apr 23, 2021)

So here is my little innovation for carrying the stack.  I really only use it indoors,  I am one of those people who doesn't sit in one spot for long, and this way I don't have to interrupt my listening.  This is actually very comfortable.


----------



## twister6

RTodd said:


> Really making me anxious for tomorrow.
> I need to hear this C9 orgasmifier.



Sounds like you have a date with Andrew tomorrow   But seriously, when you think Traillii soundstage can't expand any more, C9 pushes it further, definitely a great synergy.


----------



## RTodd

twister6 said:


> Sounds like you have a date with Andrew tomorrow   But seriously, when you think Traillii soundstage can't expand any more, C9 pushes it further, definitely a great synergy.


It will be great to see him last time  was back in January. I will be trying a few things and plan to just buy the C9 and case. Also take care of the P6 Pro issue I have been having, it has to be a hardware issue it just will not hold its memory for settings and will not scan a library no matter how small or how perfect. Still sounds incredible, directory use only, and reset control, display time, sequence, and other settings every time I turn it on. Another person posted similar issues and said it was a known fault in some units. I got one from the very first batch. Early adopters risk realized.


----------



## Marat Sar

My god all this talk of the trailli's soundstage has me worried. I can also imagine how it might get too wide with the c9... But, still doesn't put me off wanting it -- no such thing as too wide a soundstage. Just like there's no such thing as too much money. I do really like the u18t's intimate treble against the soft glowing distance of the c9's AB+tube setting, suuuper combo. U18t is so incredibly incisive and immediate and the warmth and width of c9 is great for it. 

Also, guys -- snob-dumping on sp2000's "pseudo" line out? What does this mean?  It means I have to get the PAW gold or that green-cased L&P pro, doesn't it, because their line out is somehow magically better, right? 

Guess I'll just stop paying rent, get all that and sleep on the sidewalk with an f-n amazing HARD CORE TRUE LINE OUT.


----------



## aaf evo

Marat Sar said:


> My god all this talk of the trailli's soundstage has me worried. I can also imagine how it might get too wide with the c9... But, still doesn't put me off wanting it -- no such thing as too wide a soundstage. Just like there's no such thing as too much money. I do really like the u18t's intimate treble against the soft glowing distance of the c9's AB+tube setting, suuuper combo. U18t is so incredibly incisive and immediate and the warmth and width of c9 is great for it.
> 
> Also, guys -- snob-dumping on sp2000's "pseudo" line out? What does this mean?  It means I have to get the PAW gold or that green-cased L&P pro, doesn't it, because their line out is somehow magically better, right?
> 
> Guess I'll just stop paying rent, get all that and sleep on the sidewalk with an f-n amazing HARD CORE TRUE LINE OUT.



I wouldn’t say the C9 necessarily makes things “too wide”, don’t get me wrong, it will expand the width of your iem, the beauty of the C9 lies in how it layers and separates notes. They have much more room to breathe in their own space.


----------



## Whitigir

aaf evo said:


> I wouldn’t say the C9 necessarily makes things “too wide”, don’t get me wrong, it will expand the width of your iem, the beauty of the C9 lies in how it layers and separates notes. They have much more room to breathe in their own space.


Agreed, pretty top tier in imagings


----------



## RTodd

Marat Sar said:


> My god all this talk of the trailli's soundstage has me worried. I can also imagine how it might get too wide with the c9... But, still doesn't put me off wanting it -- no such thing as too wide a soundstage. Just like there's no such thing as too much money. I do really like the u18t's intimate treble against the soft glowing distance of the c9's AB+tube setting, suuuper combo. U18t is so incredibly incisive and immediate and the warmth and width of c9 is great for it.
> 
> Also, guys -- snob-dumping on sp2000's "pseudo" line out? What does this mean?  It means I have to get the PAW gold or that green-cased L&P pro, doesn't it, because their line out is somehow magically better, right?
> 
> Guess I'll just stop paying rent, get all that and sleep on the sidewalk with an f-n amazing HARD CORE TRUE LINE OUT.


I don’t think so. I skipped the SP2000 because I did not like the physical design, and no 4.4, I listened to it and the sound was great. People have indicated high level results using all types of players as sources for the C9.


----------



## lumdicks

Andykong said:


> Completely final?
> 
> Since you like  Obravo HAMT3 MKII a lot, maybe you should check out HAMT2? or even HAMT1?
> 
> By the way, I am very excited to know from you that C9 is an upgrade from the amp section of HugoTT.  This is unexpected, and probably no one will expect until you shared your impression.


Personally I do not enjoy much on the amplification section of both Hugo 2 and Hugo TT2. I found it lack of emotion and authority. May be it needs a long break in but out of the box, sound from C9 and Audio-technica AT-BHA 100 are much fuller and musical. However, Chord does make the best DAC here and the M Scaler is magical. In my opinion, Chord is at the pinnacle of digital music with its DAC and upsampling technology.

I have already auditioned HAMT1 Signature but luckily I found my HAMT3 suits my taste more. The HAMT1 has unbelievable dynamic and the best high high low extension but it makes the mid a bit recessed.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 23, 2021)

Marat Sar said:


> My god all this talk of the trailli's soundstage has me worried. I can also imagine how it might get too wide with the c9... But, still doesn't put me off wanting it -- no such thing as too wide a soundstage. Just like there's no such thing as too much money. I do really like the u18t's intimate treble against the soft glowing distance of the c9's AB+tube setting, suuuper combo. U18t is so incredibly incisive and immediate and the warmth and width of c9 is great for it.
> 
> Also, guys -- snob-dumping on sp2000's "pseudo" line out? What does this mean?  It means I have to get the PAW gold or that green-cased L&P pro, doesn't it, because their line out is somehow magically better, right?
> 
> Guess I'll just stop paying rent, get all that and sleep on the sidewalk with an f-n amazing HARD CORE TRUE LINE OUT.


My understanding is that a true LO completely bypasses the amp function of the original DAP, therefore allowing you to fully enjoy the amp signature of C9. This also usually comes with the benefit of a cleaner, less distorted signal from the DAP that feeds into C9.

For pseudo LO, the amp function of the DAP is still involved, and the DAP is just offering that output with a much higher voltage.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Also, just want to note again that the second batch of C9 is expected to be sold out soon. The third batch could take a long time to arrive due to potential part shortages... Try audition one now and grab one if it works for you.


----------



## Zambu

bluestorm1992 said:


> My understanding is that a true LO completely bypasses the amp function of the original DAP, therefore allowing you to fully enjoy the amp signature of C9. This also usually comes with the benefit of a cleaner, less distorted signal from the DAP that feeds into C9.
> 
> For pseudo LO, the amp function of the DAP is still involved, and the DAP is just offering that output with a much higher voltage.


How do you know for sure which it is in a given DAP?


----------



## Zambu

bluestorm1992 said:


> Also, just want to note again that the second batch of C9 is expected to be sold out soon. The third batch could take a long time to arrive due to potential part shortages... Try audition one now and grab one if it works for you.


Has there been information about total batch amounts (batch 1 and 2)?


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 23, 2021)

Zambu said:


> How do you know for sure which it is in a given DAP?


Good question and I don’t know. I can only tell from past user experience. Lotoo’s DAPs seem all to be true LO. Even for N6ii, only E02 and A02 offer true LO. R6 and R8 are true LO. DX300 with  the current amp card is not (but a new one with true LO is on the way). SP2000 is not.

Please correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Zambu said:


> Has there been information about total batch amounts (batch 1 and 2)?


Do you mean the total amount sold or?


----------



## Zambu

bluestorm1992 said:


> Do you mean the total amount sold or?


Well I mean like total amount made. Which is the same as sold pretty soon apparently.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 23, 2021)

Zambu said:


> Well I mean like total amount made. Which is the same as sold pretty soon apparently.


500 for the first batch. The second batch includes around 400 pre-ordered units, so I guess at least 500 for the second batch and could be many more.

So, my estimate is a total of 1000-1500 have been sold globally.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 24, 2021)

Zambu said:


> Well I mean like total amount made. Which is the same as sold pretty soon apparently.


I see that you have N3 Pro. Its 3.5 is true LO while 4.4 is pseudo LO. But, just want to emphasize that it is not necessarily the case that pseudo LO will not give good performance; it is just that a true LO is generally preferable.

More importantly, in using C9, it is essential to remain consistency in your audio chain for the best audio performance: BAL-in to BAL-out, and SE-in to SE-out. The BAL/SE convertor works fine, but it seems to require serious burn-in.


----------



## Zambu (Apr 24, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> I see that you have N3 Pro. Its 3.5 is true LO while 4.4 is pseudo LO. But, just want to emphasize that it is not necessarily the case that pseudo LO will not give good performance; it is just that a true LO is generally preferable.
> 
> More importantly, in using C9, it is essential to remain consistency in your audio chain for the best audio performance: BAL-in to BAL-out, and SE-in to SE-out. The BAL/SE convertor works fine, but it seems to require serious burn-in.



Thanks, good points. I tested again with the 3.5 LO of N3Pro, 3.5 ICs (stock) and 3.5 out at C9 end (and then with 4.4 shared/pseudo LO from N3Pro, 4.4 stock IC and 4.4 out at C9). And it all so sounds good so what do I know   (test track: Blade Runner end credits FLAC). No burn in involved aside from just listening.
(and I have to use Clairvoyance with stock adapters from 2.5 cable to 3.5 or 4.4, don't know if this is an issue. Don't have any particularly good earphones with 3.5mm cable).
Of course, my next DAP purchase will be with C9 synergy in mind, though preferably next year to get more use of my current toys. N6ii successor being on wish list, wink wink.


----------



## piercer

Can I have an A03 card with dual AK4499EQ DACs - please

...pretty please


----------



## xand (Apr 24, 2021)

Let's have an N7(?) stackable with C9.

I'll buy one for sure lol.

Amoled, snapdragon 765 and Android 11 pls. 3k is fine.


----------



## greenmac

So the LPGT 4.4 is true line out ?


----------



## bluestorm1992

greenmac said:


> So the LPGT 4.4 is true line out ?


Yes I believe so.


----------



## cheznous

soundblast75 said:


> What charger do you have?


I’m a bit of a Torch collector so I have a few chargers. The Foxnovo F4s is pretty good.


----------



## zen87192

I haven't posted very much since I received my C9 as I've been listening to it whenever I can and also working various shifts to pay back what I've spent over the last three months! 🤣 
All I can say is WOW! I'm a happy Chappy! I listened with my N6ii with A02 through Sundara's and Orb's. Crikey it's good! But then I bought the UM Mest MK2 (thanks Bluestorm1992 for using your Jedi mind tricks on me!) and all hell broke loose! The total match of components now is so great I'm flabbergasted! It really is an awesome set up for almost all genre of music. I've never heard nor enjoyed listening so much and have even now listened to what goes on in the background that it immerses me so much that hours fly by before I know it. Thanks to everyone's input on all sections of Head-Fi I've been able to achieve my current destination.  Cheers to all of you who posted and chimed in on my questions and posts! Happy listening to all! 🍻


----------



## gazzington

Mine is arriving this afternoon. I’m thinking of using it with the hugo 2. Cue up Solaris, MEST v1, andromeda 2019, ier z1r and th900


----------



## xand

The C9 (against DX300 Mk1 amp 11) improves the Fostex TH600. 

There's far more control, a sense of effortlessness, and I quite like it (and generally would be pretty happy) - except that I must not A/B with Utopia else its shortcomings become too apparent.


----------



## Zambu

gazzington said:


> Mine is arriving this afternoon. I’m thinking of using it with the hugo 2. Cue up Solaris, MEST v1, andromeda 2019, ier z1r and th900


This thing is probably pretty great if you have a big collection of quality gear (which you certainly have). I don't since I came to the hobby a year ago, but that's not a problem either   Just don't try to do it all at once


----------



## gazzington

Zambu said:


> This thing is probably pretty great if you have a big collection of quality gear (which you certainly have). I don't since I came to the hobby a year ago, but that's not a problem either   Just don't try to do it all at once


You have a very good collection from being in the hobby only a year. 😀


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 24, 2021)

I guess I am way too crazy and have gone way too fast.   I started last summer and looked at my signature...

Fortunately for me, I met everyone here at the C9 thread.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

gazzington said:


> Mine is arriving this afternoon. I’m thinking of using it with the hugo 2. Cue up Solaris, MEST v1, andromeda 2019, ier z1r and th900


Please let us know how the Z1R sounds.   I have 3 more days until I can hear this combo.


----------



## piercer

zen87192 said:


> I haven't posted very much since I received my C9 as I've been listening to it whenever I can and also working various shifts to pay back what I've spent over the last three months! 🤣
> All I can say is WOW! I'm a happy Chappy! I listened with my N6ii with A02 through Sundara's and Orb's. Crikey it's good! But then I bought the UM Mest MK2 (thanks Bluestorm1992 for using your Jedi mind tricks on me!) and all hell broke loose! The total match of components now is so great I'm flabbergasted! It really is an awesome set up for almost all genre of music. I've never heard nor enjoyed listening so much and have even now listened to what goes on in the background that it immerses me so much that hours fly by before I know it. Thanks to everyone's input on all sections of Head-Fi I've been able to achieve my current destination.  Cheers to all of you who posted and chimed in on my questions and posts! Happy listening to all! 🍻


I received an N6ii and an A02 today. Plugged the combo into my C9. Just tried out a couple of tracks. It is better than the N8 balanced line out into the C9. Its actually a bit like an N8 on Steroids! Very similar sound signature but bigger, cleaner and just plain better. I will try to give a more serious review/impressions later this week when I have had more time with it. (iems I use are original A&K branded JHA Laylas).


----------



## zen87192

The most fabulous set up... for me.... so far. The match of all components is awesome!


----------



## piercer

zen87192 said:


> The most fabulous set up... for me.... so far. The match of all components is awesome!


What music player are you using?


----------



## bluestorm1992

zen87192 said:


> The most fabulous set up... for me.... so far. The match of all components is awesome!


Man these are such great pairings. Trust me, what you are hearing out of the C9 + MEST pairing is well beyond some 3,4K IEMs driven from a standalone DAP. Enjoy!


----------



## Whitigir

IMO, Chinese products have been such innovations that even AK and Japan are left in the dusts.

Both of the newest brands products from Cayin and Shanling are crazily good , C9 and M30

Look at AK SE180 now!!! 🤣


----------



## zen87192

piercer said:


> What music player are you using?


Cayin N6ii with A02 Motherboard


----------



## DaYooper

Whitigir said:


> Both of the newest brands products from Cayin and Shanling are crazily good , C9 and M30


So sound wise do you think the M30 and C9 are on par with one another? Curious minds want to know. Also, does the M30 have a thread since the release besides the Announcement thread? I'm not seeing anybody posting over there.


----------



## Marat Sar (Apr 24, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> I see that you have N3 Pro. Its 3.5 is true LO while 4.4 is pseudo LO. But, just want to emphasize that it is not necessarily the case that pseudo LO will not give good performance; it is just that a true LO is generally preferable.
> 
> More importantly, in using C9, it is essential to remain consistency in your audio chain for the best audio performance: BAL-in to BAL-out, and SE-in to SE-out. The BAL/SE convertor works fine, but it seems to require serious burn-in.



I have an ibasso dx200 titanium with an amp card (amp3) that offers 2.5 line out -- a rare thing, apparently. The 200ti is a very holographic source and a big step up from the regular dx200, with special soldering and better capacitors. It's not quite as wide or detailed as SP2000 but isn't far off either. I can try that vs my SP2000 tonight, to see the difference between SP2000 pseudo LO and dx200 true LO. That should put my heart to rest for a while...

But for now, I can tell that yes, double-amping is clearly taking place between SP2000 and C9 4.4 (the amp has not been totally bypassed) but! First, it's nice to control the volume on my sp2000 and not the scary "BLOW YOUR IEMs" power-wheel of the C9. And second, the ear is the king -- and the combo sounds absolutely incredible. More importantly, not at all like my SP2000. The SP2000 output is ultra-detailed, clinical, huge soundstrage -- but a bit too neutral. When I add the C9 I not only get an even bigger soundstage and more musicality -- I also get more details. The improved layering reveals new things and I also get more timbre information than on the SP2000. Every little bell and whistle has its own timbre, and I'm often surprised to hear them. The SP2000 did not reveal this information to me. So, double-amping or not, I hear don't hear too much of the SP2000s characteristics (and bottlenecks) in the C9 output. Layering is improved, timbre information is improved -- it doesn't seem like the amp is getting in the way.

Anyway, I'll know more once I compare it to the dx200ti's LO, but for now I can say the SP2000 is a very very good match for the C9 indeed. I'm talking _boundless _soundstage with an incredible marriage of the SP2000s clinical details and the C9s musicality.

Also, doesn't hurt that they look very handsome together. Profiles match nicely 






BTW, would love to hear from someone who's rolled the SP2000 and L&P LP6 pro (The green one -- I'm thinkin it probably has true LO in 4.4?) or some other true LO source...


----------



## Whitigir

DaYooper said:


> So sound wise do you think the M30 and C9 are on par with one another? Curious minds want to know. Also, does the M30 have a thread since the release besides the Announcement thread? I'm not seeing anybody posting over there.


Official thread here I think 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/int...desktop-hi-fi-streaming-player.952808/page-18

Yes, they are on Par, at least with clean Lo like A02

The C9 may be a little complicated in charging , but the M30 is just plug in and forget it


----------



## gazzington

I’ve done some initial listening with dx300-c9-Solaris og/th900. Mainly using tubes and class a at the moment. Very impressed. Solaris felt like it opened up further than normal and the th900 felt authoritative but smoother. Will keep listening
By the way a very well built unit. I love the volume wheel


----------



## twister6

greenmac said:


> So the LPGT 4.4 is true line out ?



I never got a defenitive answer about this one because it has selectable voltage outputs and variable output in LO mode. So, I'm not 100% sure if it is a truly direct output due to that variable output control. The same with R8 and R6 2020.


----------



## bluestorm1992

twister6 said:


> I never got a defenitive answer about this one because it has selectable voltage outputs and variable output in LO mode. So, I'm not 100% sure if it is a truly direct output due to that variable output control. The same with R8 and R6 2020.


Lotoo got a lot of praise in Asian audio shows for the LO quality, so I believe it should be.


----------



## xand

Whitigir said:


> Official thread here I think
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/int...desktop-hi-fi-streaming-player.952808/page-18
> 
> Yes, they are on Par, at least with clean Lo like A02



I wish the M30 wasn't stuck with a M8 equivalent UI, or without a screen covering it's full size.

Both wasted opportunities, the first will be fixed but not sure the second is possible.

Maybe there will be a M30Screen


----------



## piercer

zen87192 said:


> Cayin N6ii with A02 Motherboard


I meant the software  It does not look like the cayin music player.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

blackgreen15 said:


> So here is my little innovation for carrying the stack.  I really only use it indoors,  I am one of those people who doesn't sit in one spot for long, and this way I don't have to interrupt my listening.  This is actually very comfortable.


You have about as much chance of convincing me that is very comfortable as you do of convincing me that my huge beer belly is also comfortable.


----------



## Andykong

bluestorm1992 said:


> Now you make me want to try Empyrean. I almost bought it previously, but picked up the Mason FS instead. Perhaps Empyrean should be on my future purchase list again.



You really should, at least give it a serious audition.  The Empyrean is quite different from other premium headphone at this price range, it is a very refined product that exhibits quality in all perspective.



gazzington said:


> I agree. The empyrean gets slated on several YouTube channels. Yes it’s not as detailed as say an utopia but after a couple of hours I’d rather keep the empyrean on my head



There is a fine line between music appreciation and music demonstration, and for those who invested in a headphone system to enjoy music, they know this is the way to go.


----------



## DaYooper

Whitigir said:


> The C9 may be a little complicated in charging


That will be helped when Cayin make spare tray available.


----------



## soundblast75

Otherwise..


----------



## blackgreen15

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> You have about as much chance of convincing me that is very comfortable as you do of convincing me that my huge beer belly is also comfortable.


comfort is relative, but for me I can walk around and tidy the house while listening, I don't notice it at all.  Honestly I also used to be quite the portly little fellow.  Everything in life is more comfortable now.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

blackgreen15 said:


> comfort is relative, but for me I can walk around and tidy the house while listening, I don't notice it at all.  Honestly I also used to be quite the portly little fellow.  Everything in life is more comfortable now.


It works for you.  That's really all that matters.    For me, I've decided that all solutions are trade offs.   The biggest one is the trade off between sound quality and convenience.   When I go for sound quality, I have to put up with some inconvenience.    I usually connect to my desktop and when I need to get up, I pause the music and unplug the cable, do my thing and then restart.   Carrying around a rig like yours probably won't work for me.    Lately, I have been very happy with the DX160 and Fiio UTWS3 bluetooth options.   I definitely lose sound quality, but I can keep the music playing and it's seamless.


----------



## bluestorm1992

piercer said:


> I meant the software  It does not look like the cayin music player.


I think that is Tidal.


----------



## DaYooper

soundblast75 said:


> Otherwise..





soundblast75 said:


> Otherwise..


Yup, did that too. Swapped in the Orbtronic, then left the screw out too. Extra tray will be even easier to do...slide out, slide in.


----------



## gazzington

Anybody know when the new cayin dynamic driver iems are coming out?


----------



## Andykong

Joseph Lin said:


> It is still working great!  I replaced the battery by cutting the old battery out and installed a new one. It is a very easy process because the backplate was pushed out by the bloated battery. I did not glue the backplate on but a transparent tape is holding them together. Now I can replace battery whenever I want. It is working like a modern new DAP using LO to C9. The sound is comparable to DX300. The PO on i5 is really not my taste.



Back in the time of i5, most DAP didn't take lineout seriously.  Cayin started off with home audio system, and as of today, personal audio has higher growth but home audio still offers higher sale revenue. Maybe this is why we have always put line out as a very important feature, and we always test our DAP line out with our own amplifiers, in our reference audition room.


----------



## blackgreen15

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> It works for you.  That's really all that matters.    For me, I've decided that all solutions are trade offs.   The biggest one is the trade off between sound quality and convenience.   When I go for sound quality, I have to put up with some inconvenience.    I usually connect to my desktop and when I need to get up, I pause the music and unplug the cable, do my thing and then restart.   Carrying around a rig like yours probably won't work for me.    Lately, I have been very happy with the DX160 and Fiio UTWS3 bluetooth options.   I definitely lose sound quality, but I can keep the music playing and it's seamless.


Completely agree with you.  I just can't bear popping out of bubble when I'm really in it.  I look at some expensive desktop stuff kind of wistfully, but I know for me it would be kind of wasteful.


----------



## bluestorm1992

gazzington said:


> Anybody know when the new cayin dynamic driver iems are coming out?


Andy has created a thread for it. Looks like by late April, which is... very soon?   

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cayin-fantasy-beryllium-plated-single-dynamic-iem.956762/


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

blackgreen15 said:


> Completely agree with you.  I just can't bear popping out of bubble when I'm really in it.  I look at some expensive desktop stuff kind of wistfully, but I know for me it would be kind of wasteful.


Hopefully in 10 years, we can get a Traillii quality IEM with a bluetooth adapter that sounds as good as a Chord Mscaler and TT2 with a C9 Amp or a Primaluna EVO 400 tube amp in a 3 oz package.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> Andy has created a thread for it. Looks like by late April, which is... very soon?
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cayin-fantasy-beryllium-plated-single-dynamic-iem.956762/


Nice.  Interesting design and price point.   Interested in learning how it compares to Monarch and 3DT.    If it's comparable, I will buy it.


----------



## Andykong

immortalsoul said:


> Your answer let me believe that soon we are going to have a N8 succesor and the Cayin think of N8 as a product that belong to the past



And you come to this conclusion because we didn't want to develop a new leather case for N8?  You probably have no idea the minimum quantity we need to commit when we develop a new leather case.


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> Alright!!!!
> That means An R2R Modules Mahahaha



Well, that sentence was 7 months ago, so anything is possible.


----------



## Andykong

blackgreen15 said:


> So here is my little innovation for carrying the stack.  I really only use it indoors,  I am one of those people who doesn't sit in one spot for long, and this way I don't have to interrupt my listening.  This is actually very comfortable.



This is a wonderful design, can I share these photo to Cayin Facebook?


----------



## Joseph Lin

Andykong said:


> Back in the time of i5, most DAP didn't take lineout seriously.  Cayin started off with home audio system, and as of today, personal audio has higher growth but home audio still offers higher sale revenue. Maybe this is why we have always put line out as a very important feature, and we always test our DAP line out with our own amplifiers, in our reference audition room.


Sigh, I thought C9 is able to transform "all" old DAPs to a new level, but I was wrong. i5 is an exception. It sounds so great with LO to C9, almost to the level of DX300. I almost threw it to bin last month and I am glad I did not. Other old DAPs like Opus #2 still sounds off with C9, and even Kann & DX300 do not gain much from C9. Maybe both of them are good enough to begin with and not much more can C9 add to them. Looks like C9 likes quality LO and when it does, it shines.


----------



## Marat Sar

Sadly, it seems my honeymoon with the C9 is over due to a charging issue: the battery indicator says it's fully charged but the unit switches off as if it's empty. I charge until the lights say it's fully charged, then disconnect the charger -- suddenly it goes dead. When I connect the charger to recharge it, the charging starts from 0, as if it didn't have any juice.

Very strange behaviour.

Might be I could avoid doing a months-long warranty boogie by buying new rechargable batteries? Does anyone have any link to a good pair of the kind C9 takes?


----------



## bluestorm1992

Marat Sar said:


> Sadly, it seems my honeymoon with the C9 is over due to a charging issue: the battery indicator says it's fully charged but the unit switches off as if it's empty. I charge until the lights say it's fully charged, then disconnect the charger -- suddenly it goes dead. When I connect the charger to recharge it, the charging starts from 0, as if it didn't have any juice.
> 
> Very strange behaviour.
> 
> Might be I could avoid doing a months-long warranty boogie by buying new rechargable batteries? Does anyone have any link to a good pair of the kind C9 takes?


Is your C9 connected to any other device while you are charging? In particular, are you connecting it to a DAP that is also being charged at the same time, and potentially even from the same source (like both being charged from a PC)?


----------



## xand

Marat Sar said:


> Sadly, it seems my honeymoon with the C9 is over due to a charging issue: the battery indicator says it's fully charged but the unit switches off as if it's empty. I charge until the lights say it's fully charged, then disconnect the charger -- suddenly it goes dead. When I connect the charger to recharge it, the charging starts from 0, as if it didn't have any juice.



Try a different charger...


----------



## bluestorm1992

Marat Sar said:


> Sadly, it seems my honeymoon with the C9 is over due to a charging issue: the battery indicator says it's fully charged but the unit switches off as if it's empty. I charge until the lights say it's fully charged, then disconnect the charger -- suddenly it goes dead. When I connect the charger to recharge it, the charging starts from 0, as if it didn't have any juice.
> 
> Very strange behaviour.
> 
> Might be I could avoid doing a months-long warranty boogie by buying new rechargable batteries? Does anyone have any link to a good pair of the kind C9 takes?


Although it is not recommended (mainly because C9 can get quite hot), you can charge it while playing it. BUT, please do not charge your DAP at the same time, especially not from the same source. Can you try this and see what happens?


----------



## Marat Sar (Apr 24, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> Is your C9 connected to any other device while you are charging? In particular, are you connecting it to a DAP that is also being charged at the same time, and potentially even from the same source (like both being charged from a PC)?



Indeed it was connected to sp2000 which was also charging from the same wall wart charger.

Trying charging it alone now. It's gone from 1 to 2. I'll let it get to 3 and see if the charge remains this time.



xand said:


> Try a different charger...



Trying that too


----------



## xand

Marat Sar said:


> Indeed it was connected to sp2000 and it was also charging from the same wall wart charger.
> 
> 
> 
> Trying that right now, without anything else connected to the c9, just c9 alone.



Oh then what you described is expected behaviour; someone apparently killed their laptop (which was a source) by charging the c9 using the laptop, so... Don't charge the source and the c9 from the same power.

I'll guess that you were using a 3.5mm interconnect, or a pwaudio style 2.5+3.5 adaptor into 4.4...


----------



## bluestorm1992

Marat Sar said:


> Indeed it was connected to sp2000 and it was also charging from the same wall wart charger.
> 
> Trying charging it alone now. It's gone from 1 to 2. I'll let it get to 3 and see if the charge remains this time.
> 
> ...


Let’s do this. First, try your DAP alone and see if it works. If so, then connect it to C9 (don’t charge the DAP) and try playing music from C9. You don’t need C9 to be fully charged.


----------



## Frankie D

bluestorm1992 said:


> Although it is not recommended (mainly because C9 can get quite hot), you can charge it while playing it. BUT, please do not charge your DAP at the same time, especially not from the same source. Can you try this and see what happens?


Why can’t you charge the C9 while playing it? Tks.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Frankie D said:


> Why can’t you charge the C9 while playing it? Tks.


You can, it just gets hot.

Actually, the main reason is to prevent people from accidentally shorting it... So many people keep their DAP charging all the time. So, when they also charge C9 and then play, it will go to the undesirable condition of both being charged. When they happen to be charged from the same source, this creates a closed loop and will short the devices.


----------



## Andykong

Marat Sar said:


> Just got my c9 yesterday. Been experimenting all day, and felt like I need to share my impressions. Someone said in a review that the c9 is the single biggest leap forward they've ever made to their chain. And they had very impressive IEMs and DAPS to show.
> 
> Some of it might be new toy shine, but I feel the same now. Not even going from my Shure 535 to JH Audio Layla in 2015 impressed me so immediately, as when I finally got my SP2000 DAP balanced out into C9, and then a balanced Iliad cable running into my u18t. I went from:
> SP2000 -- Iliad -- u18t
> ...



Wow, another exciting impression, and I can feel your passion and appealing emotion when you heard the improvement of your system.  We said the C9 will push the envelop of portable audio and it will extend the performance benchmark of the industry to another level.  Well, believing in such a bold statement is one thing, seeing this happened and recognised by users is something far more excited that we can anticipated.   

Thank you for sharing your C9 experience with us, we sincerely appreciate your endorsement.


----------



## Marat Sar

Oh thank Sweet Bejeesus it works. DAP was fully charged and operational, hadn't blown. And the C9 also appears to keep its charge. Connected the two, music played correctly.

So, in the future, can I charge my SP2000 and C9 from the same wall wart, *IF I FIRST DISCONNECT THE TWO*, meaning: I pull the 2.5 to 4.4 interconnect from them? (And perhaps also power both down just in case...) Or should I charge them DISCONNECTED *and* from a different source (another wall wart)?

Also, big thanks to the helpful folk here


----------



## Andykong

Marat Sar said:


> Sadly, it seems my honeymoon with the C9 is over due to a charging issue: the battery indicator says it's fully charged but the unit switches off as if it's empty. I charge until the lights say it's fully charged, then disconnect the charger -- suddenly it goes dead. When I connect the charger to recharge it, the charging starts from 0, as if it didn't have any juice.
> 
> Very strange behaviour.
> 
> Might be I could avoid doing a months-long warranty boogie by buying new rechargable batteries? Does anyone have any link to a good pair of the kind C9 takes?



Disconnect all the input and output cable from C9, charge it again and see what happens.  If it is still not working probably, remove the battery tray and the batteries, this will force the C9 power management entering protection mode,  reinstall the battery and battery tray and now charge it up again with a standalone USB charger (or USB battery pack) to revoke it from protection mode.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Marat Sar said:


> Oh thank Sweet Bejeesus it works. DAP was fully charged and operational, hadn't blown. And the C9 also appears to keep its charge. Connected the two, music played correctly.
> 
> So, in the future, can I charge my SP2000 and C9 from the same wall wart, *IF I FIRST DISCONNECT THE TWO*, meaning: I pull the 2.5 to 4.4 interconnect from them? (And perhaps also power both down just in case...) Or should I charge them DISCONNECTED *and* from a different source (another wall wart)?
> 
> Also, big thanks to the helpful folk here


Thank god you are using a 2.5 to 4.4 IC cable! It does not have a ground. Otherwise, your SP2000 would have been blown. 

If you charge them while they are disconnected, in principle it should be fine. But, I think the easier approach is just not charge both of them while playing them.

Actually, can you say a bit more about your previous situation? Do you still have both of them being charged while you try to play them?


----------



## Andykong

Marat Sar said:


> Oh thank Sweet Bejeesus it works. DAP was fully charged and operational, hadn't blown. And the C9 also appears to keep its charge. Connected the two, music played correctly.
> 
> So, in the future, can I charge my SP2000 and C9 from the same wall wart, *IF I FIRST DISCONNECT THE TWO*, meaning: I pull the 2.5 to 4.4 interconnect from them? (And perhaps also power both down just in case...) Or should I charge them DISCONNECTED *and* from a different source (another wall wart)?
> 
> Also, big thanks to the helpful folk here



If you removed the interconnect between SP2000 and C9, you can charge them from the same wall wart, but I do recommend you to develop a pattern to NOT charging them from the same charger.


----------



## gazzington

I’m using it with an n8 and th900 now. It’s kind of like an n8 made even more amazing. I’m a big fan of the n8. I’m going to buy the N6ii again with a02. Also tried it with MEST, and it really lifted it to another level. Really pleased I got it. I need a bag or something to be able to use it portably


----------



## bluestorm1992

BTW, now I get why the 4.4 IC does not have a ground, but I just want to confirm with @Andykong. If the IC does not have a ground, does this mean that even if the devices are shorted, the source would not be damaged? Thanks!

The previous user who damaged their PC (used as a source) was using a 3.5 IC, which contains a ground.


----------



## bluestorm1992

gazzington said:


> I’m using it with an n8 and th900 now. It’s kind of like an n8 made even more amazing. I’m a big fan of the n8. I’m going to buy the N6ii again with a02. Also tried it with MEST, and it really lifted it to another level. Really pleased I got it. I need a bag or something to be able to use it portably


Glad to know that C9 is working well with your gears! I see that you have a great collection of all sorts of gears, and with both IEMs and headphones. You should have plenty of playtime with C9 and re-explore your gears.


----------



## Joseph Lin

Andykong said:


> If you removed the interconnect between SP2000 and C9, you can charge them from the same wall wart, but I do recommend you to develop a pattern to NOT charging them from the same charger.


I think a fool proof design is required from Cayin, you cannot expect all users to know not not to charge DAP and C9 from the same source while playing.


----------



## gazzington

bluestorm1992 said:


> Glad to know that C9 is working well with your gears! I see that you have a great collection of all sorts of gears, and with both IEMs and headphones. You should have plenty of playtime with C9 and re-explore your gears.


I’m quite surprised at how much impact it has on iems that don’t need much power. To be honest I didn’t appreciate that an amp alone, could have such a big impact on the sound


----------



## bluestorm1992

gazzington said:


> I’m quite surprised at how much impact it has on iems that don’t need much power. To be honest I didn’t appreciate that an amp alone, could have such a big impact on the sound


Indeed! If you are interested in knowing a bit more of the technical background behind this, check out my previous post and a follow-up post from Andy.


----------



## xand

gazzington said:


> I’m quite surprised at how much impact it has on iems that don’t need much power. To be honest I didn’t appreciate that an amp alone, could have such a big impact on the sound


I feel exactly the same way (you're not going crazy).

I demoed the c9 in the specific chain I was going to use it, with the specific hesdphone; so the performance of that chain was quite a known quantity.

I was still surprised, because after I received it eventually I tried my CIEMs out, and the improvement was flabbergasting.


----------



## blackgreen15

Andykong said:


> This is a wonderful design, can I share these photo to Cayin Facebook?


I would be quite honored.  Please do.


----------



## greenmac

So is it best for the 4.4mm IC to be grounded or not grounded ?


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 24, 2021)

greenmac said:


> So is it best for the 4.4mm IC to be grounded or not grounded ?


Not grounded, and the stock 4.4 IC is not grounded (while the 3.5 IC is grounded).


----------



## xand

greenmac said:


> So is it best for the 4.4mm IC to be grounded or not grounded ?


It's safer if it is not grounded.

I'm not sure anyone has specifically done listening tests, but from a pure physics perspective a short cable wouldn't particularly benefit from grounding.

There are many unintuitive things about audio though.

Note that as long as you charge separately always there's no issue using a grounded cable. 

You have to also make sure your source is grounded if you're planning to test it.


----------



## Andykong

bluestorm1992 said:


> Good question and I don’t know. I can only tell from past user experience. Lotoo’s DAPs seem all to be true LO. Even for N6ii, only E02 and A02 offer true LO. R6 and R8 are true LO. DX300 with  the current amp card is not (but a new one with true LO is on the way). SP2000 is not.
> 
> Please correct me if I am wrong.


I assume you are listing DAP with balanced line out. 

I can only clarify the line out features of Cayin DAPs.

N3Pro: dedicated (true) 3.5mm SE line out, but 4.4mm BAL line out is shared with phone out.
A01 and T01: dedicated (true) 3.5mm SE line out, but 4.4mm BAL line out is shared with phone out.
E01: no line out 
E02: dedicated 4.4mm BAL line out
A02: dedicated 3.5mm SE and 4.4mm BAL line out
N8: dedicated 3.5mm SE and 4.4mm BAL line out

Not all Line Out are equals in quality. For instance, the A01 and T01 3.5mm line out are not as good as the N8 3.5mm line out?  For the record, shared line out in Cayin DAP are fixed voltage line out from headphone output.  We have optimized the output for line out application, and will perform better than adjusting the volume of phone out arbitrarily and use it as line out.


----------



## Andykong

gazzington said:


> Mine is arriving this afternoon. I’m thinking of using it with the hugo 2. Cue up Solaris, MEST v1, andromeda 2019, ier z1r and th900



Your source and all you headphones are reported as very good match with C9 previously, looks like you are going to have a lot of fun.


----------



## RTodd (Apr 24, 2021)

Just got home, and you people have been busy.

The game begins. Thummin on couple day loan, C9 and case mine now.


----------



## Andykong

Joseph Lin said:


> I think a fool proof design is required from Cayin, you cannot expect all users to know not not to charge DAP and C9 from the same source while playing.



It is clearly written in the user guide and we have repeated in warning and instruction in several pages already.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 24, 2021)

RTodd said:


> Just got home, and you people have been busy.
> 
> The game begins. Thummin on couple day loan, C9 and case mine now.


Wow congrats! So C9 has passed your listening test?  

BTW, why am I also seeing a Thummim? You got it as well? 🤯

Edit: Ah just saw the loan info. NVM. But, you may still get it eventually lol. Curious how it works with C9.


----------



## xand (Apr 24, 2021)

Andykong said:


> It is clearly written in the user guide and we have repeated in warning and instruction in several pages already.



Sure - but maybe for a C9s or something.

Not that I will be buying that if this power thing is the only improvement, but there clearly have been problems.

Edit: The C9 power situation has even been a reason not to buy: e.g. https://forum.headphones.com/t/cayin-c9-portable-amp/10716/44


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 24, 2021)

xand said:


> Sure - but maybe for a C9s or something.
> 
> Not that I will be buying that if this power thing is the only improvement, but there clearly have been problems.


Agree. Maybe there can be another version of C9 WITHOUT the replaceable batteries but with a Li battery power supply and allows for simultaneous charging.

As I understand it, the power shorting thing is unavoidable with a 18650 battery design. But for me, for example, I don’t remove the batteries at all, so it could work for me to purchase a version that allows for simultaneous charging.


----------



## Andykong

bluestorm1992 said:


> BTW, now I get why the 4.4 IC does not have a ground, but I just want to confirm with @Andykong. If the IC does not have a ground, does this mean that even if the devices are shorted, the source would not be damaged? Thanks!
> 
> The previous user who damaged their PC (used as a source) was using a 3.5 IC, which contains a ground.



The ground connection can be enabled by the metal cable chassis/ring.

In another occasion, I have discussed how the R- can short circuit with GND of 4.4mm connectors.  The problem is even when 99% headphone cables does not have dedicated ground connection, you can still toss your amplifier if you didn't plug in the 4.4mm connectors correctly.


----------



## RTodd (May 2, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> Wow congrats! So C9 has passed your listening test?
> 
> BTW, why am I also seeing a Thummim? You got it as well? 🤯


Thummin on loan.

Did not bother testing C9 pretty sure I will like it.

I spent a couple hours in my car with
MEST MKII, LX, Odin, Thummin, I had my Bird and the M8. Contrasting and comparing using a couple bass heavy tracks.

Odin really pretty set, nice sound, not enough bass for me, and Traillii will win every time if I am grabbing a set to listen to for musicality and detail. Odin may be more detailed not sure, but not enough to make me grab it.

LX not impressed, just like last time.

MEST2 is really great sounding, lots of bass.
Need to listen to my MEST OG again, I am using it almost never now so I was just curious to see. The first MEST did the same thing so much sound in the bass and the highs, and strangely sounds live. Very unique set as far as I am concerned, could be endgame for many, great hopes for Mason.

Thummin clearly more bass than Trailllii, highs sounded also exaggerated, this is different enough. Need to use for a bunch of hours to see if it really is something that scratches that bass treble recessed mids itch, and if I can tolerate all the sharp edges. Also want to see if I hear the reported stage. The double flange did not work for me it lost all its special sauce. Sedna on it now.


----------



## Andykong

xand said:


> Sure - but maybe for a C9s or something.
> 
> Not that I will be buying that if this power thing is the only improvement, but there clearly have been problems.
> 
> Edit: The C9 power situation has even been a reason not to buy: e.g. https://forum.headphones.com/t/cayin-c9-portable-amp/10716/44





bluestorm1992 said:


> Agree. Maybe there can be another version of C9 WITHOUT the replaceable batteries but with a Li battery power supply and allows for simultaneous charging.
> 
> As I understand it, the power shorting thing is unavoidable with a 18650 battery design. But for me, for example, I don’t remove the batteries at all, so it could work for me to purchase a version that allows for simultaneous charging.



There is no need to speculate.  The problem is NOT replaceable batteries, it is an operation issue with 18650 batteries.  So even we make the battery tray non-replaceable, as long as we use the 18650 in series, it will still have the same problem.  Can we design another portable amplifier with 3.7V lithium battery like those we have in mobile phone? Yes, this will solve the problem, but it won't perform anywhere near the current C9.

Is there a way out of this? Yes, give up the Type-C charging port, use a standard circular charging connector instead, and provided a dedicated DC transformer to charge the C9.  This will avoid the the condition of charging the C9 and your source from the same USB charging point.  

The link you quoted is a very different story from what we have here.  Marat Sar run into problem because he didn't aware of the charging requirement.  The link you quoted is for someone who rejected the requirement.


----------



## soundblast75

DaYooper said:


> Yup, did that too. Swapped in the Orbtronic, then left the screw out too. Extra tray will be even easier to do...slide out, slide in.


I've been waiting like 4 hours and it doesn't seem it'll stop charging any time soon🤔


----------



## RTodd (Apr 24, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> Edit: Ah just saw the loan info. NVM. But, you may still get it eventually lol. Curious how it works with C9.



Not sure I have enough time for a proper C9 burn in. And no idea how many hours might be on Andrew’s Thummim demo set.

I will try it along with everything else I have over the next week and report back.

I had to start P6 Pro burn in all over again with a new unit, mine was one of two with an apparent hardware issue. It is probably the best source for C9 I have and it will not deliver great bass and resolution until at least 200 hours. Have it on now and definitely not as impressive as my first unit which had over a thousand hours on it. Problem was it played but lost its memory every time it was turned off and it would not scan libraries.

Have not heard much about M8 as source, with dual 99 chips doing the conversion I would think it could be good.


----------



## zen87192

soundblast75 said:


> I've been waiting like 4 hours and it doesn't seem it'll stop charging any time soon🤔



You could try charging two batteries - one on channel one and one on channel four as this will give you a 1 amp charge instead of a half amp charge on all four batteries at once.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 24, 2021)

Marat Sar said:


> I also got the case and it says, in typical ostentatious copy: *NEVER BE THE SAME AGAIN*. Pretty intimidating.
> 
> I'm beginning to thing Cayin weren't kidding when they said that. Can't see myself going back to amps below The Majesty of C9.



@Andykong It just occurred to me that Cayin’s English slogan may not be the best translation of its Chinese slogan. 🤣

The Chinese slogan is: 好听，从此不一样。I think a better translation is: Never *hear* the same again.


----------



## bluestorm1992

RTodd said:


> Not sure I have enough time for a proper C9 burn in. And no idea how many hours might be on Andrew’s Thummin demo set.
> 
> I will try it along with everything else I have over the next week and report back.
> 
> ...


Gotcha. Maybe ATM you can use your 6K as the source as @aaf evo recommends it very much.


----------



## RTodd

bluestorm1992 said:


> Gotcha. Maybe ATM you can use your 6K as the source as @aaf evo recommends it very much.


It is an underrated amazing machine.


----------



## gazzington

I just grabbed my old ie800s to try with the c9. Biggest shock so far. I don’t think I’ve ever heard them powered properly before.


----------



## RTodd (Apr 24, 2021)

First Listen U12T new P6Pro Wes, A Day In The Life. U12T sounds better than it ever did. Stunning


----------



## soundblast75

zen87192 said:


> You could try charging two batteries - one on channel one and one on channel four as this will give you a 1 amp charge instead of a half amp charge on all four batteries at once.


Yes, will try that too thanks 👍


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 24, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> BTW, now I get why the 4.4 IC does not have a ground, but I just want to confirm with @Andykong. If the IC does not have a ground, does this mean that even if the devices are shorted, the source would not be damaged? Thanks!
> 
> The previous user who damaged their PC (used as a source) was using a 3.5 IC, which contains a ground.


No, if the IC has no ground then there is no way for the C9 virtual ground and Amp ground to short out

The 3.5mm or Single Ended of any IC of any Kinds, including RCA, are all with Ground.  Because in SE world, Ground is the return Path!!!

So, All SE Interconnect will have the chance to get shorted out from using the same charger, or charging from the source USB outlets


----------



## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> No, if the IC has no ground then there is no way for the C9 virtual ground and Amp ground to short out


Thanks Vince, so your No means the source would NOT be damaged in this case?


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> Thanks Vince, so your No means the source would NOT be damaged in this case?


That is technically correct, but Of course asking the engineers team for confirmations would be best @Andykong

Anyways, I recommend using balanced IC without ground


----------



## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> That is technically correct, but Of course asking the engineers team for confirmations would be best @Andykong
> 
> Anyways, I recommend using balanced IC without ground


Thanks Vince. I guess I will just restate the things here since there have been multiple iterations in this communication.

Technically speaking, if your IC does NOT have a ground, then even if you happen to short your devices in charging, your source will not be damaged.

The stock 4.4 IC has no ground. The stock 3.5 IC has ground. So, for the best possible chance to reduce the risk, and also to ensure a better SQ when your IEM/headphone is also balanced, using the 4.4 IC is recommended.


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> Thanks Vince. I guess I will just restate the things here since there have been multiple iterations in this communication.
> 
> Technically speaking, if your IC does NOT have a ground, then even if you happen to short your devices in charging, your source will not be damaged.
> 
> The stock 4.4 IC has no ground. The stock 3.5 IC has ground. So, for the best possible chance to reduce the risk, and also to ensure a better SQ when your IEM/headphone is also balanced, using the 4.4 IC is recommended.


Yes, 4.4mm IC is recommended, and any upgraded IC should not have ground

Also, try to practice 1 husband/ 1 wife policy.  So 1 C9 / 1 charger for itself , and do not let it share


----------



## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> Yes, 4.4mm IC is recommended, and any upgraded IC should not have ground
> 
> Also, try to practice 1 husband/ 1 wife policy.  So 1 C9 / 1 charger for itself , and do not let it share


I have one dedicated charger and it either chargers my DAP or C9. In this case, I will never run into trouble.


----------



## lucasratmundo

bluestorm1992 said:


> I have one dedicated charger and it either chargers my DAP or C9. In this case, I will never run into trouble.


Same here!


----------



## zen87192 (Apr 24, 2021)

So, my C9 automatically shutdown as Battery power was getting low. I was having such a great time I wasn't paying attention to battery power remaining! 
I presume auto cut out was in action to preserve the batteries draining completely. The manual states about six hour charge on a normal charger and about three hours charge on a super duper charger. I charged my C9 from its shut down state to full in one hour twenty minutes using a Samsung Note 21 Ultra 5G Fast Charger. This is fast and the battery indicator shows fully charged on the C9... but.... should I leave it plugged in and charging even though it shows a full charge? The charging time i encountered is nowhere near the three hours quoted by Cayin?


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 24, 2021)

zen87192 said:


> So, my C9 automatically shutdown as Battery power was getting low. I was having such a great time I wasn't paying attention to battery power remaining!
> I presume auto cut out was in action to preserve the batteries draining completely. The manual states about six hour charge on a normal charger and about three hours charge on a super duper charger. I charged my C9 from its shut down state to full in one hour twenty minutes using a Samsung Note 21 Ultra 5G Fast Charger. This is fast and the battery indicator shows fully charged on the C9... but.... should I leave it plugged in and charging even though it shows a full charge? The indicated time by Cayin is nowhere near the three hours quoted?


I got pretty long listening time: definitely more than 3hr. Are you using it in high gain or low gain?

Actually, now with the case, I am less worried about the overheating thing while charging. @Kiats did an experiment of the heat dispatch with and without the case, and he pulled out the machine for an accurate temperature measurement. In his measure, C9 is much cooler with the case on (like 10 degrees cooler).

So, I would recommend you to experiment leaving it charged while using it and see if the heat works for you. And, definitely try this when the case arrives.


----------



## zen87192 (Apr 24, 2021)

I got long listening hours. No problems there. I'm querying the recharge times. I managed to recharge the C9 in one hour twenty minutes from low battery shut off. The indicated times in the manual are six hours or three hours dependant on which charger one uses. My recharging time is half the indicated recharge time with a "different version" charger. I'm not complaining about fast recharge though but am mystified about speed of recharge and if, what I'm experiencing, is common, or if I need to use a more appropriate charger.


----------



## RTodd

Switched to the MMR Thummim 4.4 still P6Pro line out 4.4, tube class A. Player on random and first track was Toni Childs The Woman’s Boat, Womb, starts out with a sub bass pounding and then some synth tones, Toni starts singing gently but with building force, showing her range and power. The Thummim has some hiss but not much, the bass is strong and as the song progresses high notes occasionally intrude. The mids do not sound scooped. A siren, and a really interesting synth surge repeats, all kinds of samples, dogs barking, birds chirping, ending with a baby crying. All the time the stage was about 6 inches to the left and right of my ears, Toni remained in the middle of my head.


----------



## bluestorm1992

RTodd said:


> Switched to the MMR Thummim 4.4 still P6Pro line out 4.4, tube class A. Player on random and first track was Toni Childs The Woman’s Boat, Womb, starts out with a sub bass pounding and then some synth tones, Toni starts singing gently but with building force, showing her range and power. The Thummim has some hiss but not much, the bass is strong and as the song progresses high notes occasionally intrude. The mids do not sound scooped. A siren, and a really interesting synth surge repeats, all kinds of samples, dogs barking, birds chirping, ending with a baby crying. All the time the stage was about 6 inches to the left and right of my ears, Toni remained in the middle of my head.


Looks like a good pairing with Thummim!

For the hiss issue, turning C9 to low gain or turning down the LO level in P6 Pro (if that is an option) should help.


----------



## RTodd

bluestorm1992 said:


> Looks like a good pairing with Thummim!
> 
> For the hiss issue, turning C9 to low gain or turning down the LO level in P6 Pro (if that is an option) should help.


I am in Low Gain on P6 Pro and on C9 now back on Wes Montgomery When I Look In Your Eyes, I did not change anything, think it is just replaying what is in the recordings. This song is more mids and treble. Now random to A Perfect Circle Magdalena, this setup was made for this type of song. Deep deep bass notes and sharp drum hits, good energy, vocals do sound a bit recessed, best of all no hiss. I also here no hiss between songs. This is far from balanced, but funner than fun. Got a go Neko Case just started chirping.


----------



## zen87192 (Apr 24, 2021)

oopppss.... I take back all I said previously about the extremely fast charge of my C9. Terribly sorry. The fourth battery light has just started to flash again, even though it stopped and displayed full charge after one hour twenty minutes, and is now recharging as we speak. Luckily, I left it plugged in and charging whilst writing these posts. I will confirm soon once completed as to how much longer it took. I seem to have a bit of an issue with my charge lights if you relate to my previous posts, especially as to how little power I used after four hours of listening. It was a false reading and corrected itself after powering down and restarting. I hope these lights will somehow correct themselves accordingly.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 24, 2021)

RTodd said:


> I am in Low Gain on P6 Pro and on C9 now back on Wes Montgomery When I Look In Your Eyes, I did not change anything, think it is just replaying what is in the recordings. This song is more mids and treble. Now random to A Perfect Circle Magdalena, this setup was made for this type of song. Deep deep bass notes and sharp drum hits, good energy, vocals do sound a bit recessed, best of all no hiss. I also here no hiss between songs. This is far from balanced, but funner than fun. Got a go Neko Case just started chirping.


Very interesting impressions!

Should be fun to try the bird for the same song and compare it with Thummim, since the bird is known for being balanced yet musical.


----------



## RTodd (Apr 24, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> Very interesting impressions!
> 
> Should be interested to try the bird for the same song to compare it with Thummim, since the bird is known for being balanced yet musical.


Stinkfist Tool right now. Horowitz playing Mozart before that, random can be so much fun.

Yes more careful comparisons between sets, but 2 hours today doing that. Just want no work now, while these things burn in. Saving the Traillii for last, as..., well you know...


----------



## Zambu

bluestorm1992 said:


> @Andykong It just occurred to me that Cayin’s English slogan may not be the best translation of its Chinese slogan. 🤣
> 
> The Chinese slogan is: 好听，从此不一样。I think a better translation is: Never *hear* the same again.


That sounds a bit too much like someone who went overboard with the volume control on his brand new C9


----------



## Zambu (Apr 25, 2021)

Couple of pictures, first one with my usual setup of N3Pro + Clairvoyance + C9.
Second one with Ikko OH1. This was quite a surprise for me that this one is back in use  It was my first IEM that kind of got me started but it didn't feel right in balance and sound signature after I got some other IEMs that I preferred, and it didn't sound proper with any standalone DAP that I have. But C9 raised it to a whole new level, seems to have a good synergy and I'll explore it some more in the future. Which is great, since I felt like I didn't quite "get my moneys worth" from it originally as I replaced it after a month or so.


----------



## cheznous

soundblast75 said:


> I've been waiting like 4 hours and it doesn't seem it'll stop charging any time soon🤔


I did a discharge test on the EFEST batteries and the Sony batteries that came with the C9. 
To my surprise the EFEST hold more power, 3,345 mah compared to the Sony at only 2,855 mah. 
I have some UK purchased Sony to test later but EFEST seem pretty good to me.


----------



## soundblast75

cheznous said:


> I did a discharge test on the EFEST batteries and the Sony batteries that came with the C9.
> To my surprise the EFEST hold more power, 3,345 mah compared to the Sony at only 2,855 mah.
> I have some UK purchased Sony to test later but EFEST seem pretty good to me.


I'm just about to test them, but they took like 10 hours to charge, so i ordered 2 slot fast charger instead. 
So, once they are charged, they stay charged till you use them?


----------



## cheznous

soundblast75 said:


> I'm just about to test them, but they took like 10 hours to charge, so i ordered 2 slot fast charger instead.
> So, once they are charged, they stay charged till you use them?


Your charger may be doing a full discharge and charge hence the long time. Normal charge just does a top up and even when low should take 3 hours approx. Normal charge only shows me top up mah not full capacity. Hence my test. Full discharge and charge shows true capacity. 
My charger allows me to do a full discharge and charge though this is not default. I was just interested in capacity. This does take many hours so I do overnight. 
They keep their charge pretty well but I won’t keep topping them up until I use them. 
I am now testing my new Sony batteries but won’t know until ten hours I guess.


----------



## soundblast75

cheznous said:


> Your charger may be doing a full discharge and charge hence the long time. Normal charge just does a top up and even when low should take 3 hours approx. Normal charge only shows me top up mah not full capacity. Hence my test. Full discharge and charge shows true capacity.
> My charger allows me to do a full discharge and charge though this is not default. I was just interested in capacity. This does take many hours so I do overnight.
> They keep their charge pretty well but I won’t keep topping them up until I use them.
> I am now testing my new Sony batteries but won’t know until ten hours I guess.


You are right i believe, but do you think this is the first time only and it'll just be a top up since? No way to change anything, i just put the Sonys in, they show as 4V, the Efest being 4.2.
It's going slowly so assuming I'll leave them long time again, tho they were already charged in the amp before i put them in Xtar charger.

Anyways, sound with Efest is different for sure, bright, more brittle and wider, going out now, but will have to listen mire, let me know what you think 👍


----------



## zen87192

Recharge fully completed in three hours seventeen minutes. Not a bad recharge time at all bearing in mind that it was a Samsung Note 21 5G Charger that is one of those 'super quick' chargers. Not sure why the C9 indicated a full charge completed after one hour twenty minutes but then when on to continue to charge thereafter? Only the fourth LED went back and continued to blink whilst charging. Could be to do with battery conditioning? I'll keep an eye on these lights and hope they will become more accurate next time round. All is well so far though and I'm back to listening bliss with my awesome setup.


----------



## RTodd

This mornings plan.


----------



## fiascogarcia

I like to keep my gear in an audio cabinet when not in use, and this little jewelry tray made this setup a little more transportable.  Bonus is preventing excess strain on jacks.


----------



## blackgreen15

RTodd said:


> This mornings plan.


+1 for Mahavishnu!


----------



## RTodd

fiascogarcia said:


> I like to keep my gear in an audio cabinet when not in use, and this little jewelry tray made this setup a little more transportable.  Bonus is preventing excess strain on jacks.


Have not tried my Ely yet, how did C9 do?


----------



## Whitigir

fiascogarcia said:


> I like to keep my gear in an audio cabinet when not in use, and this little jewelry tray made this setup a little more transportable.  Bonus is preventing excess strain on jacks.


Oh man! Even Lion King will have to stop face palm to see your set up...I am talking about your avatar


----------



## Zambu

blackgreen15 said:


> +1 for Mahavishnu!


And for the Ozric Tentacles   That album cover looks Gong-like


----------



## fiascogarcia

RTodd said:


> Have not tried my Ely yet, how did C9 do?


I think the Elysium has a really high ceiling for scaling up to the level your amp will provide.  There has been discussion about the lack of good sub bass with them, but the C9 completely eliminates that question.  Especially in SS mode, the bass is balanced and taut, very natural decay, and no bleeding into the lower mids.  C9 also seems to do well with electrostatic tweeters. IMO


----------



## fiascogarcia

zen87192 said:


> Recharge fully completed in three hours seventeen minutes. Not a bad recharge time at all bearing in mind that it was a Samsung Note 21 5G Charger that is one of those 'super quick' chargers. Not sure why the C9 indicated a full charge completed after one hour twenty minutes but then when on to continue to charge thereafter? Only the fourth LED went back and continued to blink whilst charging. Could be to do with battery conditioning? I'll keep an eye on these lights and hope they will become more accurate next time round. All is well so far though and I'm back to listening bliss with my awesome setup.


Yep, a little over 3 hours with a QC3.0 wall wart.  Nice.  My charge lights seem to flash and go solid in sequence as it charges.


----------



## Marat Sar

Adventures In Charging continue-- the C9 seems to lose its charge overnight. I turn everything off, the DAP and the amp, the amp has a good 2 pips left on it, go to sleep. In the morning it's down to one pip and then goes dark after two tracks. Could this be somehow connected to the charging stuff? Like "disconnect units overnight?", meaning remove interconnect? I need to do some more experimenting to get to the bottom of what's happening, just asking up front, if losing the charge might be connected to some behaviour I don't yet understand...


----------



## bluestorm1992

Marat Sar said:


> Adventures In Charging continue-- the C9 seems to lose its charge overnight. I turn everything off, the DAP and the amp, the amp has a good 2 pips left on it, go to sleep. In the morning it's down to one pip and then goes dark after two tracks. Could this be somehow connected to the charging stuff? Like "disconnect units overnight?", meaning remove interconnect? I need to do some more experimenting to get to the bottom of what's happening, just asking up front, if losing the charge might be connected to some behaviour I don't yet understand...


This is strange. I have always had the IC and DAP connected to C9 and have not observed this. What room temperature are you keeping C9? Is it just regular room temperature?


----------



## bluestorm1992

Marat Sar said:


> Adventures In Charging continue-- the C9 seems to lose its charge overnight. I turn everything off, the DAP and the amp, the amp has a good 2 pips left on it, go to sleep. In the morning it's down to one pip and then goes dark after two tracks. Could this be somehow connected to the charging stuff? Like "disconnect units overnight?", meaning remove interconnect? I need to do some more experimenting to get to the bottom of what's happening, just asking up front, if losing the charge might be connected to some behaviour I don't yet understand...


A simple “fix” could be to get 4 new 18650 batteries. Most likely this will solve the issue you have, if any.


----------



## RTodd

bluestorm1992 said:


> A simple “fix” could be to get 4 new 18650 batteries. Most likely this will solve the issue you have, if any.


Starting to think he may have a defective unit.


----------



## lucasratmundo

Anyone who tried the Eletech Iliad grounded vs ungrounded version with the C9? Any difference in sound quality?


----------



## Marat Sar

bluestorm1992 said:


> A simple “fix” could be to get 4 new 18650 batteries. Most likely this will solve the issue you have, if any.



Was thinkin the same. Would appreciate any names (or even links!) to good batteries. 

You know, good hi-fi batteries. With great treble 



RTodd said:


> Starting to think he may have a defective unit.



Same here -- but before I give it away for a three month trip to Korea and back, might as well try the batteries trick.


----------



## bluestorm1992

RTodd said:


> Starting to think he may have a defective unit.


Could be. Another possibility I am thinking is since he has previously shorted the device, the batteries may have been damaged. If this is the case, the fix is actually quite simple - just some new batterirs


----------



## bluestorm1992

Marat Sar said:


> Was thinkin the same. Would appreciate any names (or even links!) to good batteries.
> 
> You know, good hi-fi batteries. With great treble
> 
> ...


Calling out our battery master @Whitigir.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Marat Sar said:


> Was thinkin the same. Would appreciate any names (or even links!) to good batteries.
> 
> You know, good hi-fi batteries. With great treble
> 
> ...


Just check out a way to restore the battery capacity after being shorted - to run full charging cycles 3-4 times.

That is, use up your C9’s battery (by listening to music lol). Then, *fully recharge* C9. Repeat this cycle 3-4 times and the battery capacity should resume to its 80-90%.


----------



## RTodd

Right now going back and forth between the Traillii and the Thummim on Mahavishnu, track Dawn, Class A, Tube, P6K line out. I prefer Thummim, more engaging.


----------



## RTodd (Apr 25, 2021)

RTodd said:


> Right now going back and forth between the Traillii and the Thummim on Mahavishnu, track Dawn, Class A, Tube, P6K line out. I prefer Thummim, more engaging.


Just tried same with track The Dance Of Maya, in SS. And prefer Traillii. More detail, seems like a trade off bass vs detail, with SS.

The tube punches up the Thummim and at least on this music it elevates over SS. Pushing it differently than it does the Traillii.

Two synergies in the same Orgasmifier!


----------



## zen87192 (Apr 25, 2021)

fiascogarcia said:


> I like to keep my gear in an audio cabinet when not in use, and this little jewelry tray made this setup a little more transportable.  Bonus is preventing excess strain on jacks.


Yep.. Best way. I've converted a cutlery gift box which was solid beech into my 'audio hideaway'


----------



## gazzington

I love what this amp does to dynamic driver iems. The ie800s and ex1000 sound incredible on it. Has anybody tried the a8000 or the Luna?


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 25, 2021)

gazzington said:


> I love what this amp does to dynamic driver iems. The ie800s and ex1000 sound incredible on it. Has anybody tried the a8000 or the Luna?


@bigbeans has the Luna and Zen, and I may get the new Dita x Final 1DD flagship SK, which is a variation to the A8000.

So far I have been enjoying C9 with Dunu EST112 as well, which is mainly a DD IEM.

Edit: Add a pic of the SK.


----------



## RTodd

bluestorm1992 said:


> I may get the new Dita x Final 1DD flagship SK, which is a variation to the A8000.
> Edit: Add a pic of the SK.


Love the design of this one. Hope you do, want to know what it is like.


----------



## Nostoi

bluestorm1992 said:


> @bigbeans has the Luna and Zen, and I may get the new Dita x Final 1DD flagship SK, which is a variation to the A8000.
> 
> So far I have been enjoying C9 with Dunu EST112 as well, which is mainly a DD IEM.
> 
> Edit: Add a pic of the SK.


Dang, that looks sweet.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 25, 2021)

Why don’t I share some more pics here if you guys are interested. 

First for the SK. 














Next, another new 1DD from Dita: Project 71 Sakura.










Finally, Oriolus’s new 1DD Isabellae


----------



## bluestorm1992

I have some more IEM eye candies I can share, and some with the combo of C9 if you guys are interested in.


----------



## RTodd

bluestorm1992 said:


> I have some more IEM eye candies I can share, and some with the combo of C9 if you guys are interested in.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 25, 2021)

OK,  now maybe some QDC V14 pics. Some of them have been posted in Nick’s thread.


----------



## bluestorm1992

lucasratmundo said:


> Anyone who tried the Eletech Iliad grounded vs ungrounded version with the C9? Any difference in sound quality?


I have the Iliad 4.4 non-grounded IC and it works great. For better protecting your gears, I recommend going for the non-grounded version just like the stock IC.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> OK,  now maybe some QDC V14 pics. Some of them have been posted in Nick’s thread.


Can you post a link to your review?


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Can you post a link to your review?


Oh sorry I made a typo. These are the pics from a C9 user. 

I do have seen one Chinese review.


Spoiler: V14 Chinese Review



QDC的VX在推出后相当一段时间都是均衡大气的旗舰耳塞的代表，而且2*2*2多达8种音色变化（组合）可以适配很多不同种类的音乐，当然也适合搭配不同的播放器，而今年推出的V14还增加了4个静电单元和多一组可调节开关（并不是简单叠加，哪怕动铁单元完全一样，改了分频区别还是很大的），达到了最多16种组合，其中基准两档为“全开”的“流行模式”和“全关”的“标准”模式。

先不考虑外观的改变，V14比起VX一耳朵，就是直白的变强，无论声场还是两端延伸，而中频部分感觉变化不太大，依然还是清淡忠实的监听风格（是比较真实而耐听那种，不是又寡又“白”那种假“监听”）。











*奇妙的开关组合*

因为评测要考虑耳塞的搭配性等问题，不可能只基于两种模式做测试的。而测试的最简单方法就是一个个开关进行尝试：

官方提出的4个开关的定义：低频、中频、高频、极高频(静电)。

一般对于低频的定义无太多争议，但是中频、高频的区分结点存在比较明显的争议，而极高频一般指16k以上，但一般对于难以区分的很高的频率（没达到16k）我们叫“超高频”或者“超高音”。











个人的评价则是：低频是纯净的低频改变，对人声几乎没变化；中频则有待商榷，但确实覆盖到男声的几乎完整主音和泛音区，不能完全覆盖女声；高频开关则覆盖了很多乐器细节和女声的明亮度和泛音细节，少数男声也会受到这个开关影响；极高频开关则对人声音色带来微妙变化，但部分“难以区分”的细节并没达到16k。所以如果让我命名，我会叫“低音”“男声”“女声和乐器”“超高音”开关。

单独拨动每个开关的结果：

低音开关：低频下潜小幅增强（因为拨下低音下潜也完全没影响，只是量大听起来更明显）、量感较大幅度增强，增幅应该在5db左右。

中频开关：男声变化最明显，其次女声的厚度和乐器的形体，变化预计在3db左右。

高频开关：女声的变化最明显，尤其明亮度和“甜度”，其实是乐器细节和层次感，大部分男声几乎无变化（齿音控制比较好，因此没有出现不适当的齿音增强）变化应该也是3db左右。

超高频开关：高频明亮度和延伸感、声场向上的开度，少数乐器的泛音，还包含了一些较难辨认的高频细节（10K以上），变化幅度向越高频率逐渐增加（官方给出的图示，正常耳朵听智能分辨多少有变化，无法量化），预计增幅基准在5db左右。



























*我更喜欢的开关组合或特定组合的表现：*

“流行模式”（全开，即全部开关打上）素质非常凸显，声场非常宏大，可以用气势恢宏形容，尤其低音规模和极高频延伸带来的声场拓展非常明显，但是，就个人偏好而言，低频稍稍有点轰头。

“标准模式”（全关）最均衡，所有乐器和人声的音色都比较中性，声场和层次感略微不如流行模式，人声更显醇厚感，速度感略慢。

只关闭低音开关：我觉得相当不错的一个模式，保持低频在一个合理但略少的范围，突出人声和大部分乐器的表现，同样适合流行音乐和大部分其他音乐。

关闭低音和中频：对女声和弦乐的表现很有帮助，能够听到甜而不过分的女声听感。

关闭低音和高频：获得醇厚人声表现，同时进一步削减齿音。

只开启极高频：享受极高频带来的空气感和层次感。





















*对了，为什么除了“标准”都不关闭极高频？*

这里需要加入一些个人见解：其实，4个开关并不是给你搭配选歌的，因为大多数用户听的音乐类型比较集中，真正“杂食”的用户很少，大部分“杂食”用户都是在2到3种大类里面的细分而已。

但是，如果用这四个开关搭配播放器意义就完全不一样了，例如：搭配部分低频速度很快，量感不足是，使用低频开关而抑制其他频段；高频比较毛躁且量多的就适合单独关闭极高频开关；而部分播放器人声表现比较干瘪/过于厚重的，就可以用中频和高频控制做最佳适配。

个人建议则是在“能忍受”范围内，打开极高频开关，毕竟极高频对于声场和层次感存在正面的变化，而可能带来的负面影响，必须是对超高频非常敏感且辨识力超群的极少数才能分辨的。











*当然，考虑用户需求也是很大的点*

很多时候，用户购买中低端耳机的时候，会希望产品更有特色而不是“更全面”，毕竟对于那个档次产品，“样样精通”就等于样样疏松（我的记忆中被森海MX760支配的恐惧）。但是到了一定位置，我们就会以“全面性”来要求产品，但毕竟众口难调，真的很难覆盖所有用户的需求。而这次，QDC合理设计的4个开关就考虑到尽可能多的用户偏好和尽可能搭配不同音源，可以说QDC  V14这款产品几乎做到了全面的“合情合理”。

作为超旗舰，QDC给V14的配线虽然是12股编制铜银线但线身还是很柔软的，到了这个预算，大部分用户都会选择说更换不同升级线来进一步调和自己的听音风格。



























最重要的事情，当然是来雷音实体店试听啦，样机已经到位啦！

讲了这么多还是自己来听才有感觉。听了才会发现☟

嗯，真香！！！​


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 25, 2021)

Finally, a 1DD flagship IEM that I really like but never gets any attention outside of China: Simphonio VR1.

Widely considered to be the best 1DD for vocals among Chinese C9 users. It is quite on the contrary to A8000 as A8000 is somewhat lean and sharp, while VR1 is rich and thick.


----------



## zen87192

All of these IEM's are beginning to look like real high class Jewellery pieces! They are all awesome looking! Put them in a Jewellery box and the Wife would never know they are IEM's. 🤣


----------



## cheznous

Marat Sar said:


> Was thinkin the same. Would appreciate any names (or even links!) to good batteries.
> 
> You know, good hi-fi batteries. With great treble
> 
> ...


EFEST 3.5K mah 20A IMR High Drain Flat Top Single Battery​These have a higher capacity than the Sony as supplied. 
Plus Sony are pretty impossible to get at present. 
I am using the EFEST at the moment and they are pretty good. I get a longer battery life and no discernible difference in the sound.


----------



## Marat Sar

cheznous said:


> EFEST 3.5K mah 20A IMR High Drain Flat Top Single Battery​These have a higher capacity than the Sony as supplied.
> Plus Sony are pretty impossible to get at present.
> I am using the EFEST at the moment and they are pretty good. I get a longer battery life and no discernible difference in the sound.



Oh, thank you!

Are these the ones? 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08KW4JT43?psc=1&smid=A35X5TUGHR3RZZ&ref_=chk_typ_imgToDp

(wouldn't wanna, I don't know, make my amp EXPLODE coz it says 2.0k mah and not 3.5k mah )


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 25, 2021)

You can easily replace 18650 batteries in the C9 by simply having it at full charge before swapping it in/out

Rolling batteries isn’t cheap either, and different brands, chemical, will result in different sound signatures.


----------



## Marat Sar

Whitigir said:


> You can easily replace 18650 batteries in the C9 by simply having it at full charge before swapping it in/out
> 
> Rolling batteries isn’t cheap either, and different brands, chemical, will result in different sound signatures.



Ooh, very interesting... do you have an article somewhere, or a list of _suggested batteries _that you can link to, dear Venerable Impressario Whitigir?


----------



## Whitigir

Marat Sar said:


> Ooh, very interesting... do you have an article somewhere, or a list of _suggested batteries _that you can link to, dear Venerable Impressario Whitigir?


One of the earlier post here
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...able-headphone-amplifier.943135/post-16169866


----------



## greenmac

C9 out for delivery this morning ....

Will I need to charge it on arrival and if so for how long ?


----------



## bluestorm1992

greenmac said:


> C9 out for delivery this morning ....
> 
> Will I need to charge it on arrival and if so for how long ?


As I recall, it has good remaining battery on arrival. I suggest you try it out first to make sure everything is OK out of the box. After that, do a full recharge of it.


----------



## cheznous

Marat Sar said:


> Oh, thank you!
> 
> Are these the ones?
> 
> ...


Yes these are the ones I am using currently. 
Work fine for me with a slightly longer battery life.


----------



## cheznous

Whitigir said:


> One of the earlier post here
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...able-headphone-amplifier.943135/post-16169866


Orbtronic do not seem available in the UK and Sony all sold out hence my recommendation of the alternative. So far I am impressed with the EFEST.


----------



## soundblast75

cheznous said:


> Yes these are the ones I am using currently.
> Work fine for me with a slightly longer battery life.


+1,I'm using them too. Sound seems fine, so far


----------



## Tanalasta

Lithium batteries prefer being in a state of partial charge when stored (i.e. not full nor empty). And that is how they should ideally drive.


----------



## greenmac

Arrived and testing now

What are peoples preferred settings ?

Have LGPT and C9 on high output

Solid State
A

What type of music will warrant Tube mode ?


----------



## DaYooper

greenmac said:


> What type of music will warrant Tube mode ?


It's your ears that determine if you like tube mode.


----------



## RTodd (Apr 26, 2021)

greenmac said:


> Arrived and testing now
> 
> What are peoples preferred settings ?
> 
> ...


Trying to get up to speed with all that myself.
So far line out, non amped, from Lotoo and L&P seems great.

If you are double amping because the player does not have true line out, than low gain not high gain or turbo. The only way I want to test that theory is with the M8 as it would be double amping, it is the only player I own that does not have a non amped line out.

I think tube mode is not so much the music genre it is more about the driver types and tuning and how you hear that IEM or HP.


----------



## fiascogarcia

greenmac said:


> Arrived and testing now
> 
> What are peoples preferred settings ?
> 
> ...


Maybe just my imagination, but with iems, I seem to get more balanced sound and natural timbre with low gain on C9.


----------



## bluestorm1992

fiascogarcia said:


> Maybe just my imagination, but with iems, I seem to get more balanced sound and natural timbre with low gain on C9.


Indeed, @Andykong recommended low gain when possible for its lower noise floor. I have always used low gain for IEMs.


----------



## bigbeans

To add what @bluestorm1992 says, I always use high gain for headphones.


----------



## piercer

OK - I would like to know if anybody else has noticed this.

The other day I stated that N6ii A02 balance 4.4 output into the C9 was better than N8 Balanced SS 4.4 output into C9.

This morning I am back to working from home and ready to go for a day of listening to this amazing combo! But noooooooooooo - it sounds pretty bad - very harsh and sibilant even on tube class-a. Hmmmm. I switch back to the N8 and confirm that this is now much nicer and not hurtung my ears at al - pretty amazing in fact.

Curious and disappointing.

So, I try an experiment. Reconnect the N6ii and switch the C9 to High gain (it was at low gain). All of a sudden balance is restored in the world and it again sounds amazing. Switching to low gain and I am back in sibilant harshness.

Can anybody explain this - its like the High gain has a slightly different signature to the Low gain.

Could this be an impedance mismatch???

As always I am using original A&K JHA Laylas.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 26, 2021)

piercer said:


> OK - I would like to know if anybody else has noticed this.
> 
> The other day I stated that N6ii A02 balance 4.4 output into the C9 was better than N8 Balanced SS 4.4 output into C9.
> 
> ...


Just to confirm, you feel harshness when you use: A02 -> 4.4 IC -> C9 low gain. Is your IEM end 4.4 or 3.5?


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 26, 2021)

piercer said:


> OK - I would like to know if anybody else has noticed this.
> 
> The other day I stated that N6ii A02 balance 4.4 output into the C9 was better than N8 Balanced SS 4.4 output into C9.
> 
> ...


I just chatted with the fellows in the Chinese C9 user group, and the answer seems to be pretty interesting: your Layla’s is not powered properly in low gain. In this case, the typical outcome is what you have experienced here: thin and harsh sound. Pushing C9 to high gain will solve this.

Meanwhile, you can try to address this from the source. A02 has three gain levels for its LO. Set A02 to high gain and see if this helps. Andy recommends always setting the LO power to high such that you can keep C9 in low gain when possible.


----------



## piercer

bluestorm1992 said:


> Just to confirm, you feel harshness when you use: A02 -> 4.4 IC -> C9 low gain. Is your IEM end 4.4 or 3.5?





bluestorm1992 said:


> I just chatted with the fellows in the Chinese C9 user group, and the answer seems to be pretty interesting: your Layla’s is not powered properly in low gain. In this case, the typical outcome is what you have experienced here: thin and harsh sound. Pushing C9 to high gain will solve this.
> 
> Meanwhile, you can try to address this from the source. A02 has three gain levels for its LO. Set A02 to high gain and see if this helps. Andy recommends always setting the LO power to high such that you can keep C9 in low gain when possible.


Thanks - am using 4.4 balanced out for Laylas.
Will try adjusting gain on the A02 - it is set to low!
I'll get back to you.


----------



## bluestorm1992

piercer said:


> Thanks - am using 4.4 balanced out for Laylas.
> Will try adjusting gain on the A02 - it is set to low!
> I'll get back to you.


Great! So most likely it is it: Your source output is too low. I have had my A02 in medium gain most of the time and has so far worked fine for IEMs.


----------



## xand (Apr 26, 2021)

Looking at the C9 specifications chart, theoretically C9 in low gain should work best - with source line voltage at 6V.

I would suggest trying that as a baseline then adjusting to taste.





Edit: credit to Andy for this. He mentioned this sometime back in this thread which is the only reason I noticed.


----------



## gazzington

My dx300 doesn’t sound as good without the c9 now. Waiting for the c9 to charge after using it loads today. I’ve got a N6ii with all available boards arriving in the next few days. 
So far and I know this sounds crazy with what iems I own, I just love it with the ie800s!


----------



## xand

gazzington said:


> My dx300 doesn’t sound as good without the c9 now. Waiting for the c9 to charge after using it loads today. I’ve got a N6ii with all available boards arriving in the next few days.
> So far and I know this sounds crazy with what iems I own, I just love it with the ie800s!



The way to do it is to make sure you stop listening to music for awhile before just using the dx300 alone.

If I listen to dx300 to c9 then immediately switch to dx300 then I tend to think the dx300 sucks, but if I just listen to the dx300 fresh it doesn't sound bad.


----------



## aaf evo

gazzington said:


> My dx300 doesn’t sound as good without the c9 now. Waiting for the c9 to charge after using it loads today. I’ve got a N6ii with all available boards arriving in the next few days.
> So far and I know this sounds crazy with what iems I own, I just love it with the ie800s!



Yep, it’s basically ruined all standalone daps for me. lol.


----------



## soundblast75

aaf evo said:


> Yep, it’s basically ruined all standalone daps for me. lol.


Yeah, totally, even the P6Pro🤣😅


----------



## bluestorm1992

aaf evo said:


> Yep, it’s basically ruined all standalone daps for me. lol.


Same for me haha.


gazzington said:


> My dx300 doesn’t sound as good without the c9 now. Waiting for the c9 to charge after using it loads today. I’ve got a N6ii with all available boards arriving in the next few days.
> So far and I know this sounds crazy with what iems I own, I just love it with the ie800s!


That’s exciting! Also, just to let you know that Cayin has just confirmed a new motherboard for N6ii - CSS based C01. Available in May.


----------



## Marat Sar (Apr 26, 2021)

Damn. Might've damaged either my c9 or my sp2000 -- or both -- because I charged them while connected after all. Odd behaviour from both units. My SP2000 somehow outputs volume levels 20% higher than before, like it's stuck on high gain (I don't have LO on and even did a full system reset). Hard to say if something is wrong with the sound -- in addition to the volume issue -- but it feels there might be. And the C9 just doesn't sound good any more. Congested and blurry, soundstage feels smaller and details are missing. Like it was in single ended or something... Tried with new batteries too, doesn't seem to make much of a difference.

Damn, I'm the guy in the celebration thread with the gloomy technical difficulties ain't I? I hate that guy, hogging up the conversation!  Worst thing is, I can't tell if it's the amp or DAP malfunctioning. Or if I'm just losing my mind. Might be that too. You know how illusive it is when hifi is malfunctions? You can't trust your ears (or maybe head) any more.

Maybe I'm just imagining it...

Feels like I should get out of the hobby. maybe. Bring out my old Fiio x3, hook up my Shure 535s and "just listen to the music" like "normal people do". What a precipitous dall! Just three days ago I was Hifigod, now I'm going asleep on 6000 pounds of audio gear malfunctioning.

Any suggestions on the inevitable gloomy morning?


----------



## bluestorm1992

Marat Sar said:


> Damn. Might've damaged either my c9 or my sp2000 -- or both -- because I charged them while connected after all. Odd behaviour from both units. My SP2000 somehow outputs volume levels 20% higher than before, like it's stuck on high gain (I don't have LO on and even did a full system reset). Hard to say if something is wrong with the sound -- in addition to the volume issue -- but it feels there might be. And the C9 just doesn't sound good any more. Congested and blurry, soundstage feels smaller and details are missing. Like it was in single ended or something... Tried with new batteries too, doesn't seem to make much of a difference.
> 
> Damn, I'm the guy in the celebration thread with the gloomy technical difficulties ain't I? I hate that guy, hogging up the conversation!  Worst thing is, I can't tell if it's the amp or DAP malfunctioning. Or if I'm just losing my mind. Might be that too. You know how illusive it is when hifi is malfunctions? You can't trust your ears (or maybe head) any more.
> 
> ...


First off, does your C9 ever enter the protection mode, where it does not turn on until you disconnect it from the charger and then reconnect it? If it does not, then you may not have caused anything.


----------



## RTodd (Apr 26, 2021)

Marat Sar said:


> Damn. Might've damaged either my c9 or my sp2000 -- or both -- because I charged them while connected after all. Odd behaviour from both units. My SP2000 somehow outputs volume levels 20% higher than before, like it's stuck on high gain (I don't have LO on and even did a full system reset). Hard to say if something is wrong with the sound -- in addition to the volume issue -- but it feels there might be. And the C9 just doesn't sound good any more. Congested and blurry, soundstage feels smaller and details are missing. Like it was in single ended or something... Tried with new batteries too, doesn't seem to make much of a difference.
> 
> Damn, I'm the guy in the celebration thread with the gloomy technical difficulties ain't I? I hate that guy, hogging up the conversation!  Worst thing is, I can't tell if it's the amp or DAP malfunctioning. Or if I'm just losing my mind. Might be that too. You know how illusive it is when hifi is malfunctions? You can't trust your ears (or maybe head) any more.
> 
> ...


Charging together from the same USB charger?

Assuming you used the stock interconnects that came with the C9 so ungrounded, if that was what was connected no one has said that would cause issues yet, only a grounded interconnect was not recommended, to leave connected.

Do you have another source you could use?
Sounds a little bit to me like the SP2000 output could be the issue from the way you describe it.


----------



## Marat Sar (Apr 26, 2021)

RTodd said:


> Charging together from the same USB charger?
> connected by the interconnect? 3.5 or 4.4?



balanced, 2.5 to 4.4



bluestorm1992 said:


> First off, does your C9 ever enter the protection mode, where it does not turn on until you disconnect it from the charger and then reconnect it? If it does not, then you may not have caused anything.



yup, all that happened. it went to protection mode. I shared the trouble a couple of pages back in this thread. seemed I might not have taken any damage at first but now it appears: not so lucky.

protection mode sometimes happens at random moments too, like when I changed new batteries just now. 

beginning of my first vacation in seven years, folks. wanted to get all the equipment here so I can enjoy it in time.

gotta say: *it's definitely my fault, not Cayin. I stopped reading the user manual at PRECISELY at the moment charging info started. *Got too excited with how good everything was sounding. Man that glorious soundstage... Did not know this can happen. I remember charging my cayin c5 and fiio x3 from the same source back then, connected...


----------



## bluestorm1992

Marat Sar said:


> balanced, 2.5 to 4.4
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The protection mode will be activated when changing the battery; this is by design.

Still, I tend to think that you may not have caused any serious trouble, especially to your DAP.

Now when doing the check, I also recommend you from SP2000. Give it a listening time and see if it sounds good to you. Then, you move to C9.

When commenting on the sound as congested, are you using the exact same setup as before, I.e., LO from SP2000 to C9, not regular PO?


----------



## Marat Sar (Apr 26, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> The protection mode will be activated when changing the battery; this is by design.
> 
> Still, I tend to think that you may not have caused any serious trouble, especially to your DAP.
> 
> ...



Yes, same setting as before (2.5 balanced line out to 4.4 input). I've felt something is strange with the sound for a few days now, ever since the loading accident happened. The worst thing is, I might have accidentally REPEATED the loading accident later. Because it didn't sound bad after the first loading accident. But started sounding bad a day and a half later. And I remember I might have plugged them both in like that again.

Super scatterbrained from work I guess. 

After that, when it was suddenly sounding bad the next morning, I rested my ears first, for the whole day yesterday. Didn't listen to music, thought maybe my hearing is just a little tired. (Actually even washed them ). Plugged everything in today, still a oddly blurry and congested, not the same sound I heard the first day. Then I tried -- as a comparison -- what my sp2000 alone sounds like. Then I noticed it's ear splittingly loud at the volume I usually listen to it.

I'm gonna give it a night's rest and all that, but it feels like something is very off.


----------



## twister6

Marat Sar said:


> Damn. Might've damaged either my c9 or my sp2000 -- or both -- because I charged them while connected after all. Odd behaviour from both units. My SP2000 somehow outputs volume levels 20% higher than before, like it's stuck on high gain (I don't have LO on and even did a full system reset). Hard to say if something is wrong with the sound -- in addition to the volume issue -- but it feels there might be. And the C9 just doesn't sound good any more. Congested and blurry, soundstage feels smaller and details are missing. Like it was in single ended or something... Tried with new batteries too, doesn't seem to make much of a difference.
> 
> Damn, I'm the guy in the celebration thread with the gloomy technical difficulties ain't I? I hate that guy, hogging up the conversation!  Worst thing is, I can't tell if it's the amp or DAP malfunctioning. Or if I'm just losing my mind. Might be that too. You know how illusive it is when hifi is malfunctions? You can't trust your ears (or maybe head) any more.
> 
> ...



Were you using 2.5mm to 4.4mm adapter or one of those 2.5mm/3.5mm to 4.4mm adapters (EA AKA or similar one from PWA?), and what did you set LO on SP2k, variable or fixed and which fixed voltage level?  Then, were you using Line In or Pre-Amp input on C9?  Also, do yo have any other sources to check with C9?


----------



## bluestorm1992

Marat Sar said:


> Yes, same setting as before. I've felt something is strange with the sound for a few days now, ever since the loading accident. Rested my ears first, for the whole day yesterday. Didn't listen to music, thought maybe my hearing is just a little tired. (Actually even washed them ). Plugged everything in today, still a bit blurry and congested, not the same sound I heard the first day. Then I tried -- as a comparison -- what my sp2000 alone sounds like. Then I noticed it's ear splittingly loud at the volume I usually listen to it.
> 
> I'm gonna give it a night's rest and all that, but it feels like something is very off.


I would also recommend @RTodd and @twister6 said, try a different source with C9. It may not be as good as SP2000, but will let you know if C9 has any trouble. Even your old Fiio DAP could do the job.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 26, 2021)

Marat Sar said:


> Yes, same setting as before (2.5 balanced line out to 4.4 input). I've felt something is strange with the sound for a few days now, ever since the loading accident happened. The worst thing is, I might have accidentally REPEATED the loading accident later. Because it didn't sound bad after the first loading accident. But started sounding bad a day and a half later. And I remember I might have plugged them both in like that again.
> 
> Super scatterbrained from work I guess.
> 
> ...


OK, I just spoke with Mr. Liang at Cayin. According to him, it is highly unlikely that you have damaged either of your devices, by the design of C9. Most likely to be your mind effect...

With this being said, it is vital for you to reset C9. Take the following steps:

Disconnect everything.
Remove the battery tray.
Charge the battery tray for at least 10 seconds.
Put it back. Since you have just removed the battery tray,  C9 is still in protective mode. Charge it for 1 sec to activate it.
Restart C9.


----------



## Marat Sar

twister6 said:


> Were you using 2.5mm to 4.4mm adapter or one of those 2.5mm/3.5mm to 4.4mm adapters (EA AKA or similar one from PWA?), and what did you set LO on SP2k, variable or fixed and which fixed voltage level?  Then, were you using Line In or Pre-Amp input on C9?  Also, do yo have any other sources to check with C9?



1) yes, I was using a 2.5 to 4.4 mm adpter. a single adapter, not the EA AKA / PWA double-one.
2) sadly, I don't know what "variable" and "fixed" mean for LO value in SP2000. my options menu only displays "output options", with choices from "unbalanced1.05V/balanced 2.1V" to "unbalanced 3V/balanced6V". I remember having the penultimate one chosen at the time (checked this when first connecting SP2000 to C9) but now when I checked it had become the last one (balanced 6). It really feels like SP2000 is stuck on that, even when I take LO out, yes.
3) I was using Line In.
4) I sadly have no other sources with me but can try my gf's dx200ti later this week. But the dx200s DAC is not as good as SP2000 so won't it sound worse to me because of that? Anyway, of course a necessary experiment to run and I wish I could do it now but don't have that gear with me as she's away.


----------



## Marat Sar

bluestorm1992 said:


> OK, I just spoke with Mr. Liang at Cayin. According to him, it is highly unlikely that you have damaged either of your devices, by the design of C9. Most likely to be your mind effect...
> 
> With this being said, it is vital for you to reset C9. Take the following steps:
> 
> ...



So kind of you. Will try now,


----------



## xand

@Marat Sar try these directions from earlier in the thread (after resetting the C9 as bluestorm suggested)?

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...dphone-amplifier.943135/page-80#post-16177806


----------



## Marat Sar

Okay, so mystery is getting close to be solved. Since it's night I turned on my bright ceiling light. While following the advice to take out tray and load for 10 sec -- in the bright light (I previously always work in dim light) -- I noticed something off with the charging hole.

Could this be the problem? That's caused the damage and weird behaviour?


----------



## Whitigir

Marat Sar said:


> Okay, so mystery is getting close to be solved. Since it's night I turned on my bright ceiling light. While following the advice to take out tray and load for 10 sec -- in the bright light (I previously always work in dim light) -- I noticed something off with the charging hole.
> 
> Could this be the problem? That's caused the damage and weird behaviour?


Look like a burned out port! If so, definite gonna gave burn smell...

what does it smell like ?


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 26, 2021)

Marat Sar said:


> Okay, so mystery is getting close to be solved. Since it's night I turned on my bright ceiling light. While following the advice to take out tray and load for 10 sec -- in the bright light (I previously always work in dim light) -- I noticed something off with the charging hole.
> 
> Could this be the problem? That's caused the damage and weird behaviour?


Most likely the charging module is broken... Mr. Liang said you are most advised to contact your dealer for a repair.

SP2000 itself should still be fine, but you can do a bit more listening yourself to see.


----------



## Marat Sar (Apr 26, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> Most likely the charging module is broken... Mr. Liang said you are most advised to contact your dealer for a repair.
> 
> SP2000 itself should still be fine, but you can do a bit more listening yourself to see.



There's still the problem that the SP2000 is stuck on high gain setting (super loud suddenly) -- it's adjusted added-current LO setting. Maybe Twister6 has some advice on that, hope I provided him with all the info. Like... a factory reset maybe?


----------



## Marat Sar (Apr 26, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> Look like a burned out port! If so, definite gonna gave burn smell...
> 
> what does it smell like ?



Doesn't have a clear burned smell to me. But I do smell light plasticky smell. Hard to tell if it's burnt or just broke. Not gonna plug it back in to see if it "works". Seems to be doing something. It loads the batteries for example, but not exactly in a a trustworthy way


----------



## jmills8

Marat Sar said:


> Damn. Might've damaged either my c9 or my sp2000 -- or both -- because I charged them while connected after all. Odd behaviour from both units. My SP2000 somehow outputs volume levels 20% higher than before, like it's stuck on high gain (I don't have LO on and even did a full system reset). Hard to say if something is wrong with the sound -- in addition to the volume issue -- but it feels there might be. And the C9 just doesn't sound good any more. Congested and blurry, soundstage feels smaller and details are missing. Like it was in single ended or something... Tried with new batteries too, doesn't seem to make much of a difference.
> 
> Damn, I'm the guy in the celebration thread with the gloomy technical difficulties ain't I? I hate that guy, hogging up the conversation!  Worst thing is, I can't tell if it's the amp or DAP malfunctioning. Or if I'm just losing my mind. Might be that too. You know how illusive it is when hifi is malfunctions? You can't trust your ears (or maybe head) any more.
> 
> ...


535 and x3 is still enjoyable.


----------



## Marat Sar

LOL, yeah, I mean they did have a nice dry and mid-centric sound. Guitars were amazing. Probably would add the old Cayin c5 amp too, that's been collecting dust. Good soundstage has always been Cayin's purview.

Now if I could only forget the C9/SP2000 combo sounded like God exploding into Sidereal Space and Everything I Ever Wanted 

UPDATE: I've contacted my local seller and have asked for warranty/repairs stuff. Hopefully I'll get my SP2000 off that weird high gain setting tomorrow, somehow. Totally boggles the mind how that happened...


----------



## twister6

Marat Sar said:


> There's still the problem that the SP2000 is stuck on high gain setting (super loud suddenly) -- it's adjusted added-current LO setting. Maybe Twister6 has some advice on that, hope I provided him with all the info. Like... a factory reset maybe?



Absolutely, factory reset would be the number one suggestion, but I thought you already tried that?  But never hurts to do it again.  Btw, do you have the latest fw loaded on your SP2k?  I didn't realize they had an update, though it has been a while since I updated mine lol!!!

With LO setting on SP2k, by default when you enable it, the line out is variable where you can adjust the output with a volume wheel.   This is useful with Pre-Amp setting of C9 when its gain is fixed and you adjust the pre-amp input.  Just don't forget to hit Pre button on the left side until blue light is on to activate it.  Otherwise, when LO is enabled on SP2k, as you adjust it with a volume wheel you will see Line Out button in the middle of the screen, click it to activate fixed voltage LO and then OK to confirm it.  Depending on LO voltage setting (in Settings under Line Out option) you can change it to different fixed voltage output.  6V balanced should be OK, but maybe to be on a safe side use Balanced 3V.  On C9 make sure you have Line mode.  With SP2k 3V LO output you have more room to play around with C9 adjustment at low volume.

Regarding difference in volume you hear listening to SP2k now, are you sure you didn't have EQ enabled before?  In SP2k, as well as many other DAPs, when you enable the EQ the volume drops by 3-6dB to give you more headroom so there is no clipping when you boost the bands.  Sometimes people forget EQ is enabled, especially in SP2k where its semi parametric EQ is very subtle, and later when you reset the DAP which turns EQ off, suddenly the volume is higher.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 26, 2021)

@Marat Sar  My hypotheses is exactly as what Alex suggested above: you might have previously enabled your EQ. Now, with the factory reset, that setting is gone so you hear it differently...

If everything is unchanged other than the sound, than most likely this is it. And, try enable the EQ setting and see if you get things back.


----------



## Marat Sar (Apr 26, 2021)

twister6 said:


> Absolutely, factory reset would be the number one suggestion, but I thought you already tried that?  But never hurts to do it again.  Btw, do you have the latest fw loaded on your SP2k?  I didn't realize they had an update, though it has been a while since I updated mine lol!!!
> 
> With LO setting on SP2k, by default when you enable it, the line out is variable where you can adjust the output with a volume wheel.   This is useful with Pre-Amp setting of C9 when its gain is fixed and you adjust the pre-amp input.  Just don't forget to hit Pre button on the left side until blue light is on to activate it.  Otherwise, when LO is enabled on SP2k, as you adjust it with a volume wheel you will see Line Out button in the middle of the screen, click it to activate fixed voltage LO and then OK to confirm it.  Depending on LO voltage setting (in Settings under Line Out option) you can change it to different fixed voltage output.  6V balanced should be OK, but maybe to be on a safe side use Balanced 3V.  On C9 make sure you have Line mode.  With SP2k 3V LO output you have more room to play around with C9 adjustment at low volume.
> 
> Regarding difference in volume you hear listening to SP2k now, are you sure you didn't have EQ enabled before?  In SP2k, as well as many other DAPs, when you enable the EQ the volume drops by 3-6dB to give you more headroom so there is no clipping when you boost the bands.  Sometimes people forget EQ is enabled, especially in SP2k where its semi parametric EQ is very subtle, and later when you reset the DAP which turns EQ off, suddenly the volume is highe



Ah ok so that's how it's turned on. Thanks for the explanation. Turns out yeah I didn't have that on. Good to know for the future then! Turning it on and off didn't fix the stuck volume problem, sadly.

And yeah, I'm sure I didn't have EQ on. Also even with EQ on the volume is still high. I could easily listen on 80 with my u18t's. Now it's 60 max.

I'll do a factory reset tomorrow, I guess. Once I've transferred all the files off the SP2000. I keep most of my music on the hard drive there. Unfortunately


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

OMG.    I just got my C9 after midnight and I had to hook it up to the first thing I could.    Tidal > DX160 > C9 > Thieaudio Monarch.     This is an absolutely unbelievable sound.   The sound stage expanded tremendously and so did separation along with it.     I had to see what it could do with the Sony IER-Z1R and it sounds fantastic without EQ.    Deep rumble.     I am so happy I bought this Amp.


----------



## Zambu (Apr 27, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> OMG.    I just got my C9 after midnight and I had to hook it up to the first thing I could.    Tidal > DX160 > C9 > Thieaudio Monarch.     This is an absolutely unbelievable sound.   The sound stage expanded tremendously and so did separation along with it.     I had to see what it could do with the Sony IER-Z1R and it sounds fantastic without EQ.    Deep rumble.     I am so happy I bought this Amp.


Nice  Do you use line-mode or pre-mode at C9 end? I kind of asked about the 4.4 output at at the DX160 thread but no replies...since there's no LO/PO switch for it in settings that I can see. And yeah, looks like I'm understanding lyrics more than before...


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Zambu said:


> Nice  Do you use line-mode or pre-mode at C9 end? I kind of asked about the 4.4 output at at the DX160 thread but no replies...since there's no LO/PO switch for it in settings that I can see. And yeah, looks like I'm understanding lyrics more than before...


I am using the 4.4mm to 4.4mm interconnect that is in the C9 box.   I tried both line out and pre out.  I prefer line out.

My IEMs are lighting up.     I tried it with my ZMF Verite Closed and it doesn't sound that great.   Very weak bass response.   Will try again tomorrow.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Apr 27, 2021)

dang.    It is after 4 am and I am still listening.   I am listening to C9 with Hugo 2.

Tidal on laptop > Hugo 2 > C9 > Odin.

I have the C9 in pre-amp and tubes timbre.   This is glorious sound.   It has just enough tube sound to get a nice reverb going.   Never got to hear this with IEMs before.  I love the sound.

I am not sure what problems others have had with the Odin pairing with the C9.  I think it sounds great.   I don't hear any hissing.    The bass is really full and impactful while sounding very balanced with the rest of the frequency response.


----------



## Nostoi

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I am using the 4.4mm to 4.4mm interconnect that is in the C9 box.   I tried both line out and pre out.  I prefer line out.
> 
> My IEMs are lighting up.     I tried it with my ZMF Verite Closed and it doesn't sound that great.   Very weak bass response.   Will try again tomorrow.


That's intresting about the ZMF VC. I find the VC really satisfying with the C9. Bass is tight and punchy.  Bags of headroom. You've tried Hugo 2/C9/VC?


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Apr 27, 2021)

Nostoi said:


> That's intresting about the ZMF VC. I find the VC really satisfying with the C9. Bass is tight and punchy.  Bags of headroom. You've tried Hugo 2/C9/VC?


that was with the DX160.  I just plugged in the VC into the C9 with the Hugo 2.   This sounds fantastic.    Pre-amp and tube timbre.   I can't wait until I get home and I replace the USB with my streamer.   I probably need to get an mscaler.

My ZMF Verite Closed are very picky about what it pairs with.    It sounded bad with a Chord Hugo TT2.    Now that I have the Hugo 2 feeding the C9 and the C9 delivering tube timbre, it is an outstanding sound.   I can only make the VC sound good with the Hugo 2 standalone when I use EQ.   This is without EQ.


----------



## Nostoi

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> that was with the DX160.  I just plugged in the plugged in the VC into the C9 with the Hugo 2.   This sounds fantastic.    Pre-amp and tube timbre.


That sounds about right. I find the VC source dependent. It sounds okayish with my Lotoo/C9, but on the Hugo 2/C9, it's outstanding. Pre-amp is the way to go with the VC, I think.


----------



## piercer

So here goes!

I have been using my Layla IEMs for about 5 years now. I love them and currently have no other IEMs/headphones at all. However, if I was to change to a different set of IEMs or (god forbid) buy some headphones to go with the C9 what woul you all recommend?

I think I am a bit of a basshead, but love neutral too.

I await any suggestions at any budget. Thanks


----------



## LabelH

Got new friends for C9 today. IC 2.5 - 4.4 and QDC V14 finally arrive in HK today


----------



## Nostoi

Anyone by chance got a pair of HA-FW10000 that they can pair with the C9 for impressions?


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Apr 27, 2021)

I learned a lot today.    The quality of the source definitely matters in pairing it with the C9.    It's true that it will make just about any source sound better.  But, the optimal pairing will depending on the quality of the source and the C9 together.

I paired the C9 with the W2 and it didn't sound that great.   The DX160 sounded good with IEMs, but not great with my ZMF VC.    I wonder if there is a pairing that is better than the Hugo 2 + C9?   That might be transportable end game for me.


----------



## Whitigir

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I learned a lot today.    The quality of the source definitely matters in pairing it with the C9.    It's true that it will make just about any source sound better.  But, the optimal pairing will depending on the quality of the source and the C9 together.
> 
> I paired the C9 with the W2 and it didn't sound that great.   The DX160 sounded good with IEMs, but not great with my ZMF VC.    I wonder if there is a pairing that is better than the Hugo 2 + C9?   That might be transportable end game.


Try an N6ii + A02 ?


----------



## soundblast75

P6Pro


----------



## jmills8

piercer said:


> So here goes!
> 
> I have been using my Layla IEMs for about 5 years now. I love them and currently have no other IEMs/headphones at all. However, if I was to change to a different set of IEMs or (god forbid) buy some headphones to go with the C9 what woul you all recommend?
> 
> ...


TH900


----------



## soundblast75

This i will know today 😉


----------



## zen87192

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I learned a lot today.    The quality of the source definitely matters in pairing it with the C9.    It's true that it will make just about any source sound better.  But, the optimal pairing will depending on the quality of the source and the C9 together.
> 
> I paired the C9 with the W2 and it didn't sound that great.   The DX160 sounded good with IEMs, but not great with my ZMF VC.    I wonder if there is a pairing that is better than the Hugo 2 + C9?   That might be transportable end game.



Agree with Whitigir.. N6ii + A02 with my personal choice of IEM.... The UM Mest MK2. Fabulous combo which all work in unison and harmony !


----------



## Tanalasta

I’ve seen a lot of love for this amp. Has anyone compares the SS amp to the WA11? And will it adequately power Susvara (I suspect not) or He1000SE (suspect yes) close to their full potential.

If one didn’t yet have a full sized amp, this or something else ...


----------



## gazzington

Tanalasta said:


> I’ve seen a lot of love for this amp. Has anyone compares the SS amp to the WA11? And will it adequately power Susvara (I suspect not) or He1000SE (suspect yes) close to their full potential.
> 
> If one didn’t yet have a full sized amp, this or something else ...


susvara no chance, he1000se yes i would think


----------



## bluestorm1992

Nostoi said:


> Anyone by chance got a pair of HA-FW10000 that they can pair with the C9 for impressions?


A few Chinese C9 users have FW10000 and love the pairing. They said it can really benefit from C9’s power and timbre.


----------



## Nostoi

bluestorm1992 said:


> A few Chinese C9 users have FW10000 and love the pairing. They said it can really benefit from C9’s power and timbre.


That's great to hear. I was just sifting through the FW10000 thread and it does seem it benefits from more power. I'll probably take a plunge soon.


----------



## bluestorm1992

piercer said:


> So here goes!
> 
> I have been using my Layla IEMs for about 5 years now. I love them and currently have no other IEMs/headphones at all. However, if I was to change to a different set of IEMs or (god forbid) buy some headphones to go with the C9 what woul you all recommend?
> 
> ...


Bass head but neutral... a bit hard to find the good balance.

64 Nio and EE LX are for bass head I think; not necessarily very neutral.

MMR Thummim: excellent bass and mids. However, its timbre is not for everyone.

Last for the best, the absolute true king: Traillii. Perfect bass, very natural timbre, the way to go with no budget limit. Check out its dedicated thread and you will find many C9 users there, too.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ori...c-hybrid-iem-discussion-thread.956460/page-61


----------



## SMOoth Operator

Need a 2.5mm male to 4.4mm male balanced cable to go from my AK SE200 to the C9, also need a 2.5mm male to 2.5mm balanced male for similar purpouse. I really like the quality of the interconnect cables that came with the C9. Is there anywhere I can find these under $150? The only ones I could find are $15 cheap garbage or $650, I find that price is insane. Is there a happy medium between cheap garbage and psycho high DAP/AMP interconnect cables?


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 27, 2021)

SMOoth Operator said:


> Need a 2.5mm male to 4.4mm male balanced cable to go from my AK SE200 to the C9, also need a 2.5mm male to 2.5mm balanced male for similar purpouse. I really like the quality of the interconnect cables that came with the C9. Is there anywhere I can find these under $150? The only ones I could find are $15 cheap garbage or $650, I find that price is insane. Is there a happy medium between cheap garbage and psycho high DAP/AMP interconnect cables?


Yes, the interconnect from Eletech.
They seem to be sold out ATM. You can PM @Eric Chong for more details.

https://elementechnology.com/collections/all


----------



## RTodd (Apr 27, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> Bass head but neutral... a bit hard to find the good balance.
> 
> 64 Nio and EE LX are for bass head I think; not necessarily very neutral.
> 
> ...


Hey to add to this great advice a little, I just added the Thummim and it is definitely a controversial sound, the issue to my ears is the bass is a little slow to let go, and can bleed a bit into the mids. The mids and the highs are top level to my hearing no shrillness. The set is bass head, and exactly what I was looking for. I am not 100% sure, still debating but I think the C9 in tube mode solves some of that bass bleed issue, which makes it a great pairing.

I have been listening with the Traillii for  going on 5 months, and it is on a whole other level than the Thummim, which is for me more of a mood set. Both are engaging, in different ways.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Apr 27, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> Try an N6ii + A02 ?


Perhaps.   I'll need to try some additional options including other higher end DAPs and a WA8.  I edited my post to say "end game for me."     I didn't mean to sound like I was speaking about everyone's end game choice.    My original plan was to pair the C9 with a midfi DAP thinking it would give me TOTL sound.    This was going to replace my usage with the Hugo 2.    The pairing of C9 + Hugo 2 was so good and unexpected that I couldn't contain my exuberance when I realized that the C9 would improve upon the Hugo 2 which has been my favorite sound of all my sources..


----------



## lafeuill (Apr 27, 2021)

SMOoth Operator said:


> Need a 2.5mm male to 4.4mm male balanced cable to go from my AK SE200 to the C9, also need a 2.5mm male to 2.5mm balanced male for similar purpouse. I really like the quality of the interconnect cables that came with the C9. Is there anywhere I can find these under $150? The only ones I could find are $15 cheap garbage or $650, I find that price is insane. Is there a happy medium between cheap garbage and psycho high DAP/AMP interconnect cables?


Bought a Totem IC at Penon for 85usd, for an LPG / ALO Continental v5 combo. It replaced an 8w YY Pro pure copper IC, with benefits in clarity / resolution / control. In short, it sounds better.  






Check out @davidmolliere 's review of the Totem IEM cable.


----------



## cheznous

bluestorm1992 said:


> Bass head but neutral... a bit hard to find the good balance.
> 
> 64 Nio and EE LX are for bass head I think; not necessarily very neutral.
> 
> ...


I also had the Layla and found the Odin improved on what still is an admittedly fine IEM.


----------



## bluestorm1992

I was going to post some product info here but accidentally did that in the Cayin Fantasy IEM thread... NVM, let me repost the info here once more.

For anyone who are interested in other Cayin products and especially DAPs, Cayin’s May announcement event will cover two new products: A new motherboard C01 for N6ii, and something special.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 27, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Perhaps.   I'll need to try some additional options including other higher end DAPs and a WA8.  I edited my post to say "end game for me."     I didn't mean to sound like I was speaking about everyone's end game choice.    My original plan was to pair the C9 with a midfi DAP thinking it would give me TOTL sound.    This was going to replace my usage with the Hugo 2.    The pairing of C9 + Hugo 2 was so good and unexpected that I couldn't contain my exuberance when I realized that the C9 would improve upon the Hugo 2 which has been my favorite sound of all my sources..


Sounds like a good purchase for you after all.   Also, don’t forget to get a case for C9; it offers a solid protection and good heat dissipation.

I think if you were to get a WA8, maybe save up a little bit more to get a full-size one like the Pedant? That will ensure a different use case from C9.


----------



## twister6

bluestorm1992 said:


> I was going to post some product info here but accidentally did that in the Cayin Fantasy IEM thread... NVM, let me repost the info here once more.
> 
> For anyone who are interested in other Cayin products and especially DAPs, Cayin’s May announcement event will cover two new products: A new motherboard C01 for N6ii, and something special.



Do you know when in May?


----------



## bluestorm1992

twister6 said:


> Do you know when in May?


I think soon, but will be after the Labor Day holiday for sure (first week of May).

Cayin’s general manager Liang said he has been going over his textbooks and other stuff to make sure he will get all the technical details right in the event.  🤣  🤣


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> I think soon, but will be after the Labor Day holiday for sure (first week of May).
> 
> Cayin’s general manager Liang said he has been going over his textbooks and other stuff to make sure he will get all the technical details right in the event.  🤣  🤣


LOL!!! Now that will be interesting


----------



## gazzington

My N6ii with a02 has arrived. I’m blown away. It’s incredible with the ie800s. I think this may be the best I’ve ever heard


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> Sounds like a good purchase for you after all.   Also, don’t forget to get a case for C9; it offers a solid protection and good heat dissipation.
> 
> I think if you were to get a WA8, maybe save up a little bit more to get a full-size one like the Pedant? That will ensure a different use case from C9.


Good point.   I am planning to meet Robo on the Big Island to hear his new Pendant SE and Chord Hugo TT2.  I’ll bring my C9 and Hugo 2 to A/B test


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Good point.   I am planning to meet Robo on the Big Island to hear his new Pendant SE and Chord Hugo TT2.  I’ll bring my C9 and Hugo 2 to A/B test


Make sure you try TT2 + C9.


----------



## bigbeans

My listening setup for the moment. I like to switch between different sound signatures, although growing anxious for ifi 4.4mm IEMatch @Sebastien Chiu 
PWAudio does offer 4.4 variable impedance adapter...but for 525 dollars. eek

FYI, for those with *M1 Mac*. You can use Hiby Music on M1 Mac due to iOS app compatibility. No need to crane my neck to use R8, can keep it tucked on bottom shelf of rack!


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Okay.   I used @bluestorm1992 best practices for battery management and I ran out of power right in the middle of a great listening session with my now perfectly tuned ZMF Verite Closed + Hugo 2.     Can I charge it while I listen?  Or, do I need to wait several hours before resuming my session?    Or do I need to get a second battery tray and batteries?


----------



## Whitigir

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Okay.   I used @bluestorm1992 best practices for battery management and I ran out of power right in the middle of a great listening session with my now perfectly tuned ZMF Verite Closed + Hugo 2.     Can I charge it while I listen?  Or, do I need to wait several hours before resuming my session?    Or do I need to get a second battery tray and batteries?


Get a second set of batteries, a charger for 18650.  Have the. Batteries in the charger, listen to C9.  When power is depleted or 50% down, then pull it out, swap batteries


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 27, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Okay.   I used @bluestorm1992 best practices for battery management and I ran out of power right in the middle of a great listening session with my now perfectly tuned ZMF Verite Closed + Hugo 2.     Can I charge it while I listen?  Or, do I need to wait several hours before resuming my session?    Or do I need to get a second battery tray and batteries?


Edit: after reading some more related materials, I am still quite concerned about the risk for both charging and using C9 at the same time. Each charge will keep C9 working for 6 hours. If your listening session is longer than this, get another set of batteries and a charger is the easiest way.


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 27, 2021)

Well, there is another way to charge your C9 while listening.

1/ Only use Balanced IC cables **without Ground**

2/ Abide the 1 husband/1 wife policy.  That means, charge your Source by one charger, and C9 by it own charger.  Both can be plugged into 1 Wall AC outlet

There is a note that when the 4th Led is blinking, you stop the charger.  But I don’t usually do this though, and when I do, I make sure to monitor it lol


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> Actually you can, so long as you remember not to charge your DAP at the same time. People are really likely to forget that.
> 
> Maybe I can slightly update my practice now:
> 
> ...


Right now I am not using a DAP.   I am using Hugo 2 which is in desktop mode using a dedicated charger.

I have a dedicated charger on C9


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 27, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Right now I am not using a DAP.   I am using Hugo 2 which is in desktop mode using a dedicated charger.
> 
> I have a dedicated charger on C9


Hold on. Let me ask.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> At the very least, if you want to be super cautious, you can charge them both with two dedicated chargers, and they are NOT from the same power strip. I think this should be fine.


Great.  I got them on 2 different chargers plugged into 2 different outlets.    This just sounds so great.   I can't wait to A/B test it against full sized tube amp.

Hugo 2 + C9 vs Hugo TT2 + Pendant SE.


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Great.  I got them on 2 different chargers plugged into 2 different outlets.    This just sounds so great.   I can't wait to A/B test it against full sized tube amp.
> 
> Hugo 2 + C9 vs Hugo TT2 + Pendant SE.


OK I just asked Liang. He still said you’d better don’t do this... C9 could run into the protection mode even if you are using two different outlets.

Maybe just don’t charge Hugo 2?


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> OK I just asked Liang. He still said you’d better don’t do this... C9 could run into the protection mode even if you are using two different outlets.
> 
> Maybe just don’t charge Hugo 2?


Okay.  I will only charge one device at a time.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Where can we get the back up battery tray and batteries?


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Okay.  I will only charge one device at a time.


Yes, the absolutely best way to protect your device is to charge them one at a time.

C9 gets hot when you are both using it and charging it. In my experience, getting the case helps with heat dissipation quite a bit. Still, watch for the temperature.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 27, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Where can we get the back up battery tray and batteries?


The tray will soon be available very soon. Batteries can be purchased separately online. Plenty of vendors sell a variety of 18650 batteries.

Indeed, having an extra battery tray will come in handy. And, you may not need the C9 battery tray. Just 4 batteries plus any charger should work. Swap-in and swap-out. Very easy.


----------



## bluestorm1992

We may have some complaints for how C9 charges. Mr. Liang thank the users here for your understanding, and point out that the 18650 battery design is the key behind C9’s magical performance and sound quality.  

We can try out best to protect C9 and our DAPs and be able to always enjoy the good sound.


----------



## RTodd

bluestorm1992 said:


> We may have some complaints for how C9 charges. Mr. Liang thank the users here for your understanding, and point out that the 18650 battery design is the key behind C9’s magical performance and sound quality.
> 
> We can try out best to protect C9 and our DAPs and be able to always enjoy the good sound.


Small price to pay. Easy instructions, if not obvious. Some people do not ever read manuals or for that matter even warning stickers. Fully expect there will be people making this mistake, too bad, there was not a safer way to design this to not cause issues.


----------



## bluestorm1992

RTodd said:


> Small price to pay. Easy instructions, if not obvious. Some people do not ever read manuals or for that matter even warning stickers. Fully expect there will be people making this mistake, too bad, there was not a safer way to design this to not cause issues.


Yes indeed. Maybe the capacity of 18650 will increase in the next few years such that they can last for much longer per charge. Then, the current design will have its advantage: we just update our batteries!

I notice that back in a couple of pages, some users have already identified a kind of battery with identical performance but larger capacity. Perhaps that’s worth trying.


----------



## RTodd

bluestorm1992 said:


> Yes indeed. Maybe the capacity of 18650 will increase in the next few years such that they can last for much longer per charge. Then, the current design will have its advantage: we just update our batteries!
> 
> I notice that back in a couple of pages, some users have already identified a kind of battery with identical performance but larger capacity. Perhaps that’s worth trying.


Current audio bliss.
P6PRO 4.4 C9 Tube A Thummim Neko Case Deep Red Bells. It is that simple.


----------



## bluestorm1992

After reading some more related materials, I am still quite concerned about the risk for both charging and using C9 at the same time.

Each charge will keep C9 working for 6 hours. If your listening session is longer than this, get another set of batteries and a battery charger is the easiest way.


----------



## RTodd

bluestorm1992 said:


> After reading some more related materials, I am still quite concerned about the risk for both charging and using C9 at the same time.
> 
> Each charge will keep C9 working for 6 hours. If your listening session is longer than this, get another set of batteries and a battery charger is the easiest way.


After playing through out a box power. Charging fully. I only got 5 hours of play time on my first not 6. On the second charge now still 4 lights about an hour in. Long day at work today, yesterday I ran the full charge listening session that lasted 5 hours till no power. Took really long to charge using an IPAD charger, like 6 hours. Going to get a different charger was wondering what is the specification for a fast charge solution, the Apple charger is great for all the DAPs but slow for the C9.


----------



## bluestorm1992

RTodd said:


> After playing through out a box power. Charging fully. I only got 5 hours of play time on my first not 6. On the second charge now still 4 lights about an hour in. Long day at work today, yesterday I ran the full charge listening session that lasted 5 hours till no power. Took really long to charge using an IPAD charger, like 6 hours. Going to get a different charger was wondering what is the specification for a fast charge solution, the Apple charger is great for all the DAPs but slow for the C9.


Do you use the old or new Apple charger, Like the 5V one or the 12V one?


----------



## bluestorm1992

RTodd said:


> After playing through out a box power. Charging fully. I only got 5 hours of play time on my first not 6. On the second charge now still 4 lights about an hour in. Long day at work today, yesterday I ran the full charge listening session that lasted 5 hours till no power. Took really long to charge using an IPAD charger, like 6 hours. Going to get a different charger was wondering what is the specification for a fast charge solution, the Apple charger is great for all the DAPs but slow for the C9.


I saw that @zen87192 uses a Samsung quick charger to charge the device in around 3hrs, so I assume that a quick charger can indeed benefit C9's charging time.


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 28, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> Yes indeed. Maybe the capacity of 18650 will increase in the next few years such that they can last for much longer per charge. Then, the current design will have its advantage: we just update our batteries!
> 
> I notice that back in a couple of pages, some users have already identified a kind of battery with identical performance but larger capacity. Perhaps that’s worth trying.


It already can , some of them are 4000mAh now.  It is just that a higher CDR is harder to come by.  However, I feel that the C9 isn’t draining more than 5A per cell anyways.  So higher discharge rate may not even help.  I tried previously, the Samsung 1800 was the highest CDR but indeed the performances was subpar than orbtronic And Sony


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 28, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> It already can , some of them are 4000mAh now.  It is just that a higher CDR is harder to come by.  However, I feel that the C9 isn’t draining more than 5A per cell anyways.  So higher discharge rate may not even help.  I tried previously, the Samsung 1800 was the highest CDR but indeed the performances was subpar than orbtronic And Samsung


I remember that the stock ones are 3000mAh. So, in theory, do the 4000mAh ones give 1/3 more listening time?


----------



## fiascogarcia

RTodd said:


> After playing through out a box power. Charging fully. I only got 5 hours of play time on my first not 6. On the second charge now still 4 lights about an hour in. Long day at work today, yesterday I ran the full charge listening session that lasted 5 hours till no power. Took really long to charge using an IPAD charger, like 6 hours. Going to get a different charger was wondering what is the specification for a fast charge solution, the Apple charger is great for all the DAPs but slow for the C9.


Look at Amazon, which carries a few "Quick Charge 3.0" wall warts.  Mine charges in a little over 3 hours.


----------



## soundblast75

Very careful with buying batteries guys, it's apparently world shortages and factories in flames rushing to produce fakes.
I ended up getting some from Amazon that are good and charged them in a fast charger with 2 slots only, works really well,but swapping them is a minor pain.


----------



## gazzington

soundblast75 said:


> Very careful with buying batteries guys, it's apparently world shortages and factories in flames rushing to produce fakes.
> I ended up getting some from Amazon that are good and charged them in a fast charger with 2 slots only, works really well,but swapping them is a minor pain.


I think I’ll just carry on with recharging my unit at night time. It lasts me most of my work day


----------



## soundblast75

gazzington said:


> I think I’ll just carry on with recharging my unit at night time. It lasts me most of my work day


Yeah for normal use the rest is very optional imo, charging separately overnight or whenever should be sufficient


----------



## piercer

So, having the N6ii+A02 in high output and the C9 in low gain (all 4.4 balanced) tube class A is creating a very good sound.

The N6ii+A02 does sound excellent attached to this amp. When comparing listening to my 24/96 version of 'A Farewell to Kings' by Rush between my C9 and N6ii+A02 I have the following impressions: The mid-bass is incredibly detailed (more detailed), Geddy Lee sounds very 'in the room'. There is quite a bit more low bass than I am used to, it sounds good but is slightly more bloomy, probably due to the tubes. The highs are very clear, more of them (and very occasionally a fraction too much depending on the recording), but my ears are adjusting. The mids are the usual smooth tubiness and lush.

Like other people here, it will be hard to go back to just a DAP after this.


----------



## SMOoth Operator

bigbeans said:


> My listening setup for the moment. I like to switch between different sound signatures, although growing anxious for ifi 4.4mm IEMatch @Sebastien Chiu
> PWAudio does offer 4.4 variable impedance adapter...but for 525 dollars. eek
> 
> FYI, for those with *M1 Mac*. You can use Hiby Music on M1 Mac due to iOS app compatibility. No need to crane my neck to use R8, can keep it tucked on bottom shelf of rack!


Just curious why you need the IFI Match coming out of the C9? You have a $300 interconnect there and then a cheap IFI degrading the signal IMO.  I used my andro golds straight out of the amp with no problems...Admitedly I do not know much about IFI Match, am I missing something??


----------



## Zambu

piercer said:


> Like other people here, it will be hard to go back to just a DAP after this.


I still seem to enjoy stand-alone N3Pro, sure it's not up to the C9 combo in terms of things like details, soundstage and power. But with nice tubes it's a relaxed option for sure. And once summer gets going and Covid hopefully subsides, there will be more opportunities for actual portable audio and as such the C9 is quite a brick to lug around (it's actually funny how light a simple mid-tier DAP now feels  ).
Also the C9 sets pretty clear parameters for DAP purchases, no point buying a 1000+ dollar thing unless it's got proper LO and good synergy with C9.
Unless there's tubes


----------



## RTodd

Zambu said:


> I still seem to enjoy stand-alone N3Pro, sure it's not up to the C9 combo in terms of things like details, soundstage and power. But with nice tubes it's a relaxed option for sure. And once summer gets going and Covid hopefully subsides, there will be more opportunities for actual portable audio and as such the C9 is quite a brick to lug around (it's actually funny how light a simple mid-tier DAP now feels  ).
> Also the C9 sets pretty clear parameters for DAP purchases, no point buying a 1000+ dollar thing unless it's got proper LO and good synergy with C9.
> Unless there's tubes


Lotoo PAW6K is close to the $1,000 target, probably used no problem. Works terrific with C9. Very portable great UI for times of carry less and still have very nice audio with you.


----------



## cheznous (Apr 28, 2021)

SMOoth Operator said:


> Just curious why you need the IFI Match coming out of the C9? You have a $300 interconnect there and then a cheap IFI degrading the signal IMO.  I used my andro golds straight out of the amp with no problems...Admitedly I do not know much about IFI Match, am I missing something??


I wasn’t aware IFI Match did a 4.4m version.
I do have the 2.5m version but honestly it is not needed with the C9 and AK2000 and Odins for example.


----------



## Whitigir

piercer said:


> So, having the N6ii+A02 in high output and the C9 in low gain (all 4.4 balanced) tube class A is creating a very good sound.
> 
> The N6ii+A02 does sound excellent attached to this amp. When comparing listening to my 24/96 version of 'A Farewell to Kings' by Rush between my C9 and N6ii+A02 I have the following impressions: The mid-bass is incredibly detailed (more detailed), Geddy Lee sounds very 'in the room'. There is quite a bit more low bass than I am used to, it sounds good but is slightly more bloomy, probably due to the tubes. The highs are very clear, more of them (and very occasionally a fraction too much depending on the recording), but my ears are adjusting. The mids are the usual smooth tubiness and lush.
> 
> Like other people here, it will be hard to go back to just a DAP after this.


The bass is from Class A amplification.  You just switch to class A/B and it is gone.

However, do notice that Class A is the most original amplification, and other classes are .... cheating a little.


----------



## Zambu

Whitigir said:


> The bass is from Class A amplification.  You just switch to class A/B and it is gone.
> 
> However, do notice that Class A is the most original amplification, and other classes are .... cheating a little.



Do you have a recommendable internet source about differences between class A and Class AB (or if you want to explain your view?)? I mean I can just google and I have, but it's been pretty random stuff and I probably haven't learned anything. It doesn't help that the naming is as boring as it gets


----------



## RTodd

Zambu said:


> Do you have a recommendable internet source about differences between class A and Class AB (or if you want to explain your view?)? I mean I can just google and I have, but it's been pretty random stuff and I probably haven't learned anything. It doesn't help that the naming is as boring as it gets


There was a couple good videos on YouTube if I remember right. PS Audio something like that.


----------



## Whitigir

You can try it here for some ideas
https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/class-vs-class-ab-guitar-amps/


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 28, 2021)

so to simplify the view (it is a lot more complicated), class A is amplifying the whole sine waves as is at 360 or 180/180 degree 1 cycle.  Trade off is that it is an constantly operation state, so it wastes a lot of energies.  But it is also the most original to the source.

Class AB is amplifying with a little cheat as it doesn’t do a complete sine waves, but rather carrying it onto the next phase as is and of something like Class AB is amplifying at 2/3 the wave and the 1/3 is carried onto the next phase.  So class AB is more efficient due to this principal.  It doesn’t need to be on constantly and wasting energy (180/360) 2 cycles

However, sound is subjective, even artists, some prefer class AB, and some prefer Class A, some prefer tubes in different stages, and some prefer hybrids.....you know how we are .  But between amplifications, class A is the most original to the source, where the class AB cheats a little

Class AB

https://www.electronics-lab.com/article/class-ab-amplifiers/

Class A

https://www.electronicsforu.com/resources/class-a-amplifier-working


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 28, 2021)

While we are here, the differences between tubes vs transistors are also similar.  Transistors are either On/Off, where as Tubes is always on.  So the tubes waste energy, but it doesn’t get fried by EMP where transistors will.  Some people simplify the view of tubes like Electron cloud as a water fall movements.  The electron cloud moves a little in negligible way or it moves a lot but it is a constant on operation.  However, some people also counter that there is downfall to Tubes, which is true as there is nothing perfect....and so the topic of debates carry on 

However, preferences will always be a part of us, just being human.  Then C9 is taking our human desires and lay them out on them knobs, just switch them to your liking .  All hails the C9!


----------



## twister6

cheznous said:


> I wasn’t aware IFI Match did a 4.4m version.
> I do have the 2.5m version but honestly it is not needed with the C9 and AK2000 and Odins for example.



They don't, only 3.5mm and 2.5mm versions.  For now it is just a wishful thinking.  Regarding the use of it, we all hear things differently, have different sound tolerance, listen to different music, some people have tinnitus which masks the hissing, etc.  We are not talking about strong hissing that makes the sound unlistenable.   We are talking about a very faint background waterfall type of hissing you might hear between the songs before music starts to play or when you are listening at a very low volume or in some parts of the song where the track is not busy with layered instruments, with one playing at a time so you can pickup that type of faint hissing.  If that bothers you, iEMatch helps.  For example, I use Agnes Obel "The curse" for hiss testing, first 10-15sec of the intro at normal listening volume.  And I can usually hear it with most of the Campfire Audio iems and some of the 64 audio and Empire Ears.  But that is just how I hear it, and tbh, it doesn't bother me much when it goes into the first verse of the song.  Plus, don't hear it with any of the EDM/pop songs I mostly listen to.


----------



## greenmac

Tip rolling this afternoon


----------



## jmills8

greenmac said:


> Tip rolling this afternoon


EQing


----------



## bigbeans

SMOoth Operator said:


> Just curious why you need the IFI Match coming out of the C9? You have a $300 interconnect there and then a cheap IFI degrading the signal IMO.  I used my andro golds straight out of the amp with no problems...Admitedly I do not know much about IFI Match, am I missing something??


Actually nearly $500 interconnect 

I use ifi rematch IEMatch because it gets me closer to sonic excellence. My reference point is DMP Z1, which does not produce any hiss for any earphone I own. Cayin C9 however is not built to such an exacting standard, so there are impedance issues with some earphones like DUNU Luna. 

As I listen to classical music and have sensitive hearing, the hiss is unbearable on C9 and disqualifies any possible listening session. The IEMatch allows me to listen to music on DUNU Luna.


----------



## jmills8

bigbeans said:


> Actually nearly $500 interconnect
> 
> I use ifi rematch IEMatch because it gets me closer to sonic excellence. My reference point is DMP Z1, which does not produce any hiss for any earphone I own. Cayin C9 however is not built to such an exacting standard, so there are impedance issues with some earphones like DUNU Luna.
> 
> As I listen to classical music and have sensitive hearing, the hiss is unbearable on C9 and disqualifies any possible listening session. The IEMatch allows me to listen to music on DUNU Luna.


The dmp is very warm sounding not really neutral.


----------



## Whitigir

jmills8 said:


> The dmp is very warm sounding not really neutral.


It is not exactly “very warm”.  It is warmer than what I used to know back when it was released.  However, the recent releases are all aiming toward warmer directions, and up until now, I am not sure if calling DMP Z1 to be “very warm” would be a precise word.

All of newer releases form all other makers are heading toward warmer signatures, the C9 is also warm, then the Shanling M30, and the Ibasso Dx300


----------



## Tristy

hey @SMOoth Operator how does the SE200 play with the C9? Thinking either the C9 or Hugo 2 will be my next purchase (yeah I know, not an apples to apples type scenario).


----------



## jmills8

Whitigir said:


> It is not exactly “very warm”.  It is warmer than what I used to know back when it was released.  However, the recent releases are all aiming toward warmer directions, and up until now, I am not sure if calling DMP Z1 to be “very warm” would be a precise word.
> 
> All of newer releases form all other makers are heading toward warmer signatures, the C9 is also warm, then the Shanling M30, and the Ibasso Dx300


Ok warm


----------



## Whitigir

C9 + A02 is a tough beast to beat.  I gotta bring in A02 because as of this moment...I don’t know if any dedicated DAC alone that offers similar LO performances like A02

The performances ain’t easy to outperform on this stack.  If the M30 is advertised to be a Desktop piece then this C9 Stack is also a desktop piece that you can carry around LOL


----------



## piercer

Just to throw more wood on the fire of tubes vs transistors. Tube amp distortion is stronger in the 2nd order harmonic whereas transistor distortion tends to be stronger in the 3rd order harmonic. So even where distortion is present the tube distortion will sound less harsh.


----------



## Whitigir

piercer said:


> Just to throw more wood on the fire of tubes vs transistors. Tube amp distortion is stronger in the 2nd order harmonic whereas transistor distortion tends to be stronger in the 3rd order harmonic. So even where distortion is present the tube distortion will sound less harsh.


Agreed, tubes distortions is actually desirables rather than transistors lol.


----------



## SMOoth Operator

bigbeans said:


> Actually nearly $500 interconnect
> 
> I use ifi rematch IEMatch because it gets me closer to sonic excellence. My reference point is DMP Z1, which does not produce any hiss for any earphone I own. Cayin C9 however is not built to such an exacting standard, so there are impedance issues with some earphones like DUNU Luna.
> 
> As I listen to classical music and have sensitive hearing, the hiss is unbearable on C9 and disqualifies any possible listening session. The IEMatch allows me to listen to music on DUNU Luna.


What do you mean by "impedence issues"? I listened to it straight out with Campfire Audio Andromedas, with zero hiss, those are about as sensitive for hiss as it gets. I do not follow you about the impedence issue thing though, please explain?


----------



## SMOoth Operator

Whitigir said:


> Agreed, tubes distortions is actually desirables rather than transistors lol.


I love tubes, will always choose tubes over solid state any day. Too bad the NOS is all drying up, or becoming prohibitively expensive.


----------



## SMOoth Operator (Apr 28, 2021)

Tristy said:


> hey @SMOoth Operator how does the SE200 play with the C9? Thinking either the C9 or Hugo 2 will be my next purchase (yeah I know, not an apples to apples type scenario).


Waiting on some balanced interconnects for that currently, going to be a while having them built. Have not had the desire to run it SE unbalanced. With that being said, the C9 is a fantastic amp! I need to spend more time comparing it to my Continental Duel Mono's, but so far I feel the C9 might be the better sounding amp.


----------



## SMOoth Operator

Size comparison


----------



## twister6

SMOoth Operator said:


> What do you mean by "impedence issues"? I listened to it straight out with Campfire Audio Andromedas, with zero hiss, those are about as sensitive for hiss as it gets. I do not follow you about the impedence issue thing though, please explain?



Consider yourself a lucky one if Andromeda or Solaris (or Odin or Luna) sound dead silent to your ears when connected directly to C9.


----------



## SMOoth Operator

twister6 said:


> Consider yourself a lucky one if Andromeda or Solaris (or Odin or Luna) sound dead silent to your ears when connected directly to C9.


I am curious about this impedence matching thing though, I have seen some info on it, way more complicated than I want to get into. So basically what happens when yoir amp impedence is too high for your headphones, does it make them over trebly? I recently purchased a HiBy headphone impedence adapter that adds 10ohms, is this essentially the same as the IFI Match, or is that technology different?? When he says there are "impedence" issues with his Dunu Luna, what does he mean..?? Very curious if someone could explain this to me in a easily digestable way?


----------



## twister6

SMOoth Operator said:


> I am curious about this impedence matching thing though, I have seen some info on it, way more complicated than I want to get into. So basically what happens when yoir amp impedence is too high for your headphones, does it make them over trebly? I recently purchased a HiBy headphone impedence adapter that adds 10ohms, is this essentially the same as the IFI Match, or is that technology different?? When he says there are "impedence" issues with his Dunu Luna, what does he mean..?? Very curious if someone could explain this to me in a easily digestable way?



I forgot where it was mentioned, but I think someone did iEMatch teardown or maybe just measurements and found it to act like a simple voltage divider which attenuates down the signal and the noise floor, and at the same time lowers the output impedance.  Don't quote me on that.  There is a sound science thread on HF, people love to talk numbers.  And numbers and graphs sometimes do make sense, but in some cases it makes sense to treat a piece of gear like a black box, and just analyze what it does and how *you* hear it 

Btw, I tried that Hiby impedance adapter and it didn't do anything to hissing; so to my ears it is not like iEMatch.


----------



## SMOoth Operator (Apr 28, 2021)

twister6 said:


> I forgot where it was mentioned, but I think someone did iEMatch teardown or maybe just measurements and found it to act like a simple voltage divider which attenuates down the signal and the noise floor, and at the same time lowers the output impedance.  Don't quote me on that.  There is a sound science thread on HF, people love to talk numbers.  And numbers and graphs sometimes do make sense, but in some cases it makes sense to treat a piece of gear like a black box, and just analyze what it does and how *you* hear it
> 
> Btw, I tried that Hiby impedance adapter and it didn't do anything to hissing; so to my ears it is not like iEMatch.


What confuses me is this, the C9 has an output impedence of 50m ohm, which is 50milliohms, which is 0.005 of an ohm. The output impedence is as low as it gets, so why in the world would he need an IFi match for that and why would it have "impedence issues"? From my limited understanding, I thought as long as your output impedence is significantly lower than your IEM impedence that you are fine? His Lunu Duna is 16ohms and the C9 output imp is 0.005 of an ohm, how could there be "impedence issues"? So what exactly happens when the amp impedence is to high, does it add extra treble or something??


----------



## Frankie D

bigbeans said:


> Actually nearly $500 interconnect
> 
> I use ifi rematch IEMatch because it gets me closer to sonic excellence. My reference point is DMP Z1, which does not produce any hiss for any earphone I own. Cayin C9 however is not built to such an exacting standard, so there are impedance issues with some earphones like DUNU Luna.
> 
> As I listen to classical music and have sensitive hearing, the hiss is unbearable on C9 and disqualifies any possible listening session. The IEMatch allows me to listen to music on DUNU Luna.


Interesting as I do not find there to be any issue driving the Luna from the N8.  Do you have this issue in tube mode only, or on 4.4mm SS as well?   Tks.


----------



## bigbeans

Frankie D said:


> Interesting as I do not find there to be any issue driving the Luna from the N8.  Do you have this issue in tube mode only, or on 4.4mm SS as well?   Tks.


I don't own N8 anymore, but regarding C9 I do have hiss issue on both tube and SS on 3.5mm and 4.4mm.

R8 doesn't need ifi on 3.5mm connection, however via 4.4mm too much hiss for me.


----------



## jmills8

bigbeans said:


> I don't own N8 anymore, but regarding C9 I do have hiss issue on both tube and SS on 3.5mm and 4.4mm.
> 
> R8 doesn't need ifi on 3.5mm connection, however via 4.4mm too much hiss for me.


Hiss from dynamic driver headphone ?


----------



## bigbeans

jmills8 said:


> Hiss from dynamic driver headphone ?


From Luna and Zen.
LX is dead silent (on R8), on C9 I don’t remember hearing anything to cause issues.


----------



## jmills8

bigbeans said:


> From Luna and Zen.
> LX is dead silent (on R8), on C9 I don’t remember hearing anything to cause issues.


Iems fault


----------



## aaf evo

Love this thing.


----------



## zen87192

A new set of IEM's arrived today. Tripowin TC-01 which are apparently pretty good for the price. Looking forward to seeing what it's like with and without the C9 on my N6ii.


----------



## zen87192

Crikey they're small!!


----------



## soundblast75

Wrong thread no?


----------



## zen87192

Opppss. Wrong thread.. you're correct. I was viewing notifications and thought I was on the right one. Apologies..


----------



## soundblast75

zen87192 said:


> Opppss. Wrong thread.. you're correct. I was viewing notifications and thought I was on the right one. Apologies..


No worries, I'm not usually the police, 
Im sure those would be great with 9, let us know 👍


----------



## iFi audio

SMOoth Operator said:


> Admitedly I do not know much about IFI Match, am I missing something??



It was designed to combat hiss and expand headroom on sensitive IEMs, so is a situational item for those who suffer these issues.


----------



## iFi audio

Whitigir said:


> Agreed, tubes distortions is actually desirables rather than transistors lol.



That's one of reasons why we like tubes so much


----------



## Whitigir

iFi audio said:


> It was designed to combat hiss and expand headroom on sensitive IEMs, so is a situational item for those who suffer these issues.





iFi audio said:


> That's one of reasons why we like tubes so much


You really are everywhere !!!! Lol!!


----------



## Nostoi

Can someone kindly provide an impression of the C9 with the IER Z1R? Cheers.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Nostoi said:


> Can someone kindly provide an impression of the C9 with the IER Z1R? Cheers.


@Whitigir and @HiFiHawaii808 have this pairing I believe.


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> @Whitigir and @HiFiHawaii808 have this pairing I believe.


Yes, I do and I am loving it.  I posted a while ago, and lately I haven’t been using this combo yet.  Been busy listening to M30 lol


----------



## Nostoi

Whitigir said:


> Yes, I do and I am loving it


Ok, good to know. I just ordered a pair of FW1K, but I wonder if the sound profile of the Z1R will suit me better. The major reservation I have is comfort. Have your ears "settled" into them?


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 29, 2021)

Nostoi said:


> Ok, good to know. I just ordered a pair of FW1K, but I wonder if the sound profile of the Z1R will suit me better. The major reservation I have is comfort. Have your ears "settled" into them?


I own both at a time, and they have very different sound profiles.

The major thing that put me off and sold the Z1R is its fit. Never got a good fit for me. The sound is perfect otherwise. But, from today’s viewpoint, I would say UM MEST MKii offers lots of good things similar to the Z1R but is much much more comfortable to me.


----------



## Nostoi

bluestorm1992 said:


> I own both at a time, and they are very different sound profiles.
> 
> The major thing that put me off to sell the Z1R is its fit. Never got a good fit for me. The sound is perfect otherwise. But, from today’s viewpoint, I would say UM MEST MKii offers lots of good things similar to the Z1R but is much much more comfortable to me.


Cheers, I was also looking at the MEST MKii, as well. 

With the FW1K, would you say they're mid-centric or mid-forward? This is what concerns me. 

The sound profile on the Z1R does look ideal, but if there's any kind of fit/comfort issue, it's a dead-end.


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 29, 2021)

Nostoi said:


> Ok, good to know. I just ordered a pair of FW1K, but I wonder if the sound profile of the Z1R will suit me better. The major reservation I have is comfort. Have your ears "settled" into them?


I use Xelastec or whatever the name of them tips are.

What I do is that I pushed it very hard into the nozzles, so the tips are almost flush to the nozzle entrances.  Then I am able to fit it into my ears without problems

Yes, fitting is complicated in Z1R.  But if you have the C9 to drive it, it is great!!

Pardon this picture, the tips catches a lot of dirts , but I am pretty hygiene lol.  Just wanted to illustrate how I fit it into my ears comfortably


----------



## Nostoi

Whitigir said:


> I use Xelastec or whatever the name of them tips are.
> 
> What I do is that I pushed it very hard into the nozzles, so the tips are almost flush to the nozzle entrances.  Then I am able to fit it into my ears without problems
> 
> Yes, fitting is complicated in Z1R.  But if you have the C9 to drive it, it is great!!


Any chance you can take a photo of the tip/nozzle just so I can get a sense of how it looks?


----------



## bluestorm1992

Nostoi said:


> Cheers, I was also looking at the MEST MKii, as well.
> 
> With the FW1K, would you say they're mid-centric or mid-forward? This is what concerns me.
> 
> The sound profile on the Z1R does look ideal, but if there's any kind of fit/comfort issue, it's a dead-end.


The FW10000’s mids, as I recall, is definitely not forward. It is overall not a mid-centric IEM. I believe it is know for its excellent treble extension, really really enjoyable with violins and cello like from Yo-Yo Ma.


----------



## Whitigir

Nostoi said:


> Any chance you can take a photo of the tip/nozzle just so I can get a sense of how it looks?


Done, just edited the last post with pic


----------



## Nostoi

bluestorm1992 said:


> The FW10000’s mids, as I recall, is definitely not forward. It is overall not a mid-centric IEM. I believe it is know for its excellent treble extension, really really enjoyable with violins and cello like from Yo-Yo Ma.


OK, thanks. That's reassuring, but also a testament to variance in subjective interpretations. I'm a big fan of Japanese tuning with a leaning toward bright but natural tonality. I could see that working well with the C9 in terms of adding body.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Nostoi said:


> OK, thanks. That's reassuring, but also a testament to variance in subjective interpretations. I'm a big fan of Japanese tuning with a leaning toward bright but natural tonality. I could see that working well with the C9 in terms of adding body.


Yes its mid is indeed a bit thin as I recall, and some people will say the FW10000 is bright.


----------



## Nostoi

Whitigir said:


> Done, just edited the last post with pic


Thanks, good to see, though it looks the casing would also be flush with your ear.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Apr 29, 2021)

Nostoi said:


> Can someone kindly provide an impression of the C9 with the IER Z1R? Cheers.


I am listening to this pairing right now as I type this message.   I think that the C9 is a perfect match for the Z1Rs.    Let me tell you why.    The Z1R has the reputation of having great bass, great treble and great sound stage with a v-shaped sound signature that needs a lot of power and scales well with source.   Everything the Z1R does well, the C9 enhances.

The C9 in tube mode delivers a warmth similar to the Chord Mojo, but with a nice touch of tube distortion and much better detail, stage and transparency.    My favorite pairing with the Z1R for tuning purposes is the Chord Mojo because the warmer signature lifts the mids and enhances the bass which corrects the v-shape signature and turns it into a warm frequency response.   The C9 in tube mode presents similarly.   When I pair the Z1R with the Hugo 2 the mids are too recessed so I need to EQ them to sound right.    No such EQ is required with the C9.

In addition, one of the things that the C9 does to sound is significantly increases the sound stage.   So, the already large stage of the Z1R is enhanced in a good way.   In addition, it presents very cleanly and transparently with a rich sound.    Plus it has really tight, deep and clean bass that should satisfy any bass head.  When I am not thinking and just listening, I have to remind myself that I am listening to IEMs and not full sized headphones because you get that out of head experience with the C9 and IEMs in a similar way to the full sized headphones with the largest sound stage like the HD800S.

As far power, I am listening at about 75-80 db right now and the C9 is in about 10 o'clock position.  Plenty of headroom even with the Z1R.   People on this thread say the C9 has more authority in driving their IEMs.   The way I explain it is "easy power."    In tennis, a player is said to have "easy power" when their technique is so good that they effortlessly hit the ball with pace and authority.  This is what the C9 does.   It delivers the power that your headphones or IEMs needs when it needs it.   High volume, low volume, it doesn't matter.   It fills all of the space in the frequency response like syrup covering every square on a waffle. There is no gap in the sound at any gain level.


----------



## Whitigir

Now you just made me crack out the Z1R to listen to M30 LOL! Surprisingly it volume control is also as great as C9.


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 29, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I am listening to this pairing right now as I type this message.   I think that the C9 is a perfect match for the Z1Rs.    Let me tell you why.    The Z1R has the reputation of having great bass, great treble and great sound stage with a v-shaped sound signature that needs a lot of power and scales well with source.   Everything the Z1R does well, the C9 enhances.
> 
> The C9 in tube mode delivers a warmth similar to the Chord Mojo, but with a nice touch of tube distortion and much better detail, stage and transparency.    My favorite pairing with the Z1R for tuning purposes is the Chord Mojo because the warmer signature lifts the mids and enhances the bass which corrects the v-shape signature and turns it into a warm frequency response.   The C9 in tube mode presents similarly.   So, when I pair the Z1R with the Hugo 2 the mids are too recessed so I need to EQ them to sound right.    No such EQ is required with the C9.
> 
> ...


The dynamic level of the Z1R out of C9 and M30 are not easily achieved, then you need to top that off with the Bass and the soundstage

It isn’t easy to get all 3 in an in ears, because each of them will be fighting another

I witnessed this performances out of DMP, but I couldn’t deal with DMP during late night listening as it has channel imbalances at low attenuation and I listen very low during late night or early morning.  But both the M30 and C9 will allow it


----------



## Nostoi

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I am listening to this pairing right now as I type this message.   I think that the C9 is a perfect match for the Z1Rs.    Let me tell you why.    The Z1R has the reputation of having great bass, great treble and great sound stage with a v-shaped sound signature that needs a lot of power and scales well with source.   Everything the Z1R does well, the C9 enhances.
> 
> The C9 in tube mode delivers a warmth similar to the Chord Mojo, but with a nice touch of tube distortion and much better detail, stage and transparency.    My favorite pairing with the Z1R for tuning purposes is the Chord Mojo because the warmer signature lifts the mids and enhances the bass which corrects the v-shape signature and turns it into a warm frequency response.   The C9 in tube mode presents similarly.   So, when I pair the Z1R with the Hugo 2 the mids are too recessed so I need to EQ them to sound right.    No such EQ is required with the C9.
> 
> ...


Inspiring! What's choice of music for this session? I also have the Mojo/Hugo 2 with my C9. 

And in terms of fit issues?

It looks like my FW1K have shipped, but if they don't excite me, likely I'll return for the Z1R, at least for a trial.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Nostoi said:


> Inspiring! What's choice of music for this session? I also have the Mojo/Hugo 2 with my C9.
> 
> And in terms of fit issues?
> 
> It looks like my FW1K have shipped, but if they don't excite me, likely I'll return for the Z1R, at least for a trial.


I have very eclectic music taste.  I listen to modern pop, classical, jazz, 80s, classic rock.   Not much EDM, country, hip/hop or rap.  Today, I've been listening to modern pop since it is so well recorded.

I don't have fit issues with the Z1R.   I have huge elephant ears so I've never had a fit problem with IEMs.    It took me about a week to get used to the angle the Z1Rs sit in my ears.  It did cause some pain in a similar way an exercise bike causes pain in your tail until you get used to it.    I just ordered some custom ear tips from ADV to correct the angle of insertion.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Whitigir said:


> The dynamic level of the Z1R out of C9 and M30 are not easily achieved, then you need to top that off with the Bass and the soundstage
> 
> It isn’t easy to get all 3 in an in ears, because each of them will be fighting another
> 
> I witnessed this performances out of DMP, but I couldn’t deal with DMP during late night listening as it has channel imbalances at low attenuation and I listen very low during late night or early morning.  But both the M30 and C9 will allow it


I completely agree.   I don't know how I can get that level of bass while maintaining sound stage and transparency.


----------



## bigbeans

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I have very eclectic music taste.  I listen to modern pop, classical, jazz, 80s, classic rock.   Not much EDM, country, hip/hop or rap.  Today, I've been listening to modern pop since it is so well recorded.
> 
> I don't have fit issues with the Z1R.   I have huge elephant ears so I've never had a fit problem with IEMs.    It took me about a week to get used to the angle the Z1Rs sit in my ears.  It did cause some pain in a similar way an exercise bike causes pain in your tail until you get used to it.    I just ordered some custom ear tips from ADV to correct the angle of insertion.


Ah don't remind me about exercise bike... I've been using treadmill to avoid it haha

It's never any fun, I don't know how people like this exercise. Running is much better


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bigbeans said:


> Ah don't remind me about exercise bike... I've been using treadmill to avoid it haha
> 
> It's never any fun, I don't know how people like this exercise. Running is much better


I used to be a marathon and 1/2 marathon runner.    My legs hurt all the time.    Now, I am a long distance walker.  No pain at all.    I don't think I can do long distance running anymore, so I am thinking about taking up triathlon.


----------



## bigbeans

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I used to be a marathon and 1/2 marathon runner.    My legs hurt all the time.    Now, I am a long distance walker.  No pain at all.    I don't think I can do long distance running anymore, so I am thinking about taking up triathlon.


Nice!! I've only run 1/2 marathon once, but that was several years ago. Trying to get back to that shape, stretching is probably the hardest part of the regime. Can be painful sometimes, but worth it.

I do love a long walk though, I've found long walking can be more demanding than running.


----------



## gazzington

Nostoi said:


> Can someone kindly provide an impression of the C9 with the IER Z1R? Cheers.


Love this combo, in matter of fact I’m going to use that now!


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Apr 29, 2021)

bigbeans said:


> Nice!! I've only run 1/2 marathon once, but that was several years ago. Trying to get back to that shape, stretching is probably the hardest part of the regime. Can be painful sometimes, but worth it.
> 
> I do love a long walk though, I've found long walking can be more demanding than running.


The foam roller is the most important tool for long distance running.   Long walks does take training.    I am thinking about walking the Honolulu Marathon.   I was going to do it last year, but they cancelled it due to covid.  I was doing 3.5 hour training walks and it is not easy.    Your back starts hurting if your posture is bad.    So, you need a light source with a good battery in order to make it work.   Definitely not doing it with the C9.   Any walk over 6 miles requires you to carry water.

https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-foam-rollers/


----------



## bigbeans

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> The foam roller is the most important tool for long distance running.   Long walks does take training.    I am thinking about walking the Honolulu Marathon.   I was going to do it last year, but they cancelled it due to covid.  I was doing 3.5 hour training walks and it is not easy.    Your back starts hurting if your posture is bad.    So, you need a light source with a good battery in order to make it work.   Definitely not doing it with the C9.   Any walk over 6 miles requires you to carry water.
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-foam-rollers/


I could see @Whitigir hire a pacing car to carry his Shanling M30 or C9 for him while he uses HD800S during a marathon. 
Stop for water? Nah, he stops to roll batteries.


----------



## Nostoi

gazzington said:


> Love this combo, in matter of fact I’m going to use that now!


Goos to hear. How's metal on this combo? Any fit issues with you?


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bigbeans said:


> I could see @Whitigir hire a pacing car to carry his Shanling M30 or C9 for him while he uses HD800S during a marathon.
> Stop for water? Nah, he stops to roll batteries.


that's funny.


----------



## gazzington

Nostoi said:


> Goos to hear. How's metal on this combo? Any fit issues with you?


Metal slams with this combo. Listening to some new gojira now.
The fit is fine for me but they are definitely not there most comfortable


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

I think this Cayin C9 might be the best product I own.   It makes everything it touches better and it touches everything.


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I think this Cayin C9 might be the best product I own.   It makes everything it touches better and it touches everything.


Same here.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> Same here.


I must admit, I was skeptical at first.    I am afraid to listen to the Traillii with this set up.    It's a really good thing that Andrew's demo unit was already out.     I cant' believe it makes IEMs sound like full sized headphones.  The punch and slam is amazing.

I was thinking about picking up an iBasso DX300 since I love the DX160 sound.    But, if the new Cayin DAP is made to work well with the C9, this may end up being end game sound.


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I must admit, I was skeptical at first.    I am afraid to listen to the Traillii with this set up.    It's a really good thing that Andrew's demo unit was already out.     I cant' believe it makes IEMs sound like full sized headphones.  The punch and slam is amazing.
> 
> I was thinking about picking up an iBasso DX300 since I love the DX160 sound.    But, if the new Cayin DAP is made to work well with the C9, this may end up being end game sound.


Indeed. I am so into Cayin products now.   

I will patiently wait a bit now since I am very happy with N6ii + A02 and see what Cayin offers. If the new release is an Android DAP I will buy it with a heartbeat.


----------



## SMOoth Operator (Apr 29, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I must admit, I was skeptical at first.    I am afraid to listen to the Traillii with this set up.    It's a really good thing that Andrew's demo unit was already out.     I cant' believe it makes IEMs sound like full sized headphones.  The punch and slam is amazing.
> 
> I was thinking about picking up an iBasso DX300 since I love the DX160 sound.    But, if the new Cayin DAP is made to work well with the C9, this may end up being end game sound.


The Shanling M8 and C9 combo is a game changer. Best I have heard so far, might be my personal end game.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> Indeed. I am so into Cayin products now.
> 
> I will patiently wait a bit now since I am very happy with N6ii + A02 and see what Cayin offers. If the new release is an Android DAP I will buy it with a heartbeat.


It will be interesting to see.  Actually, I am willing to give up on features if they can give me TOTL sound in a package the size of the DX160.  Sound quality, size and pairing with C9 is what matters most to me.   But, I think they will optimize to the market which will probably want Android and all the features and weight that entails.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bigbeans said:


> I could see @Whitigir hire a pacing car to carry his Shanling M30 or C9 for him while he uses HD800S during a marathon.
> Stop for water? Nah, he stops to roll batteries.


@bigbeans    Where do you get those stackable component shelves?   I need to get some for my C9.


----------



## greenmac

Anyone using/used a portable charging block on C9 ?

Just wondering what specs would be safest

Thanks


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 29, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> @bigbeans    Where do you get those stackable component shelves?   I need to get some for my C9.


Here you go.

https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B07NDRD2PT/

Edit: Shoot it is sold out. Probably search for something similar as shown in its title?

Try this on Aliexpress.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> Here you go.
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B07NDRD2PT/
> 
> ...


I found it here

https://apos.audio/products/topping-acrylic-rack

I just bought one.   Perfect size as I just measured it.   I need to figure out the interconnects and cabling, but that's next.


----------



## bigbeans

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I found it here
> 
> https://apos.audio/products/topping-acrylic-rack
> 
> I just bought one.   Perfect size as I just measured it.   I need to figure out the interconnects and cabling, but that's next.


Congrats! I would look at either ifi 4.4mm for cost effective, or Eletech (Plato or Iliad as fancy option haha) if you want all the best sound from the C9.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bigbeans said:


> Congrats! I would look at either ifi 4.4mm for cost effective, or Eletech (Plato or Iliad as fancy option haha) if you want all the best sound from the C9.


I don't mind fancy cables, but I have a rule.    The cables cannot cost more than the products they are connecting.    It's best to be 33% or less of the product cost.   So, $2000 product has to have cables less than $600.    To me cables are mostly for bling.  If they sound better, that's a bonus.


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I don't mind fancy cables, but I have a rule.    The cables cannot cost more than the products they are connecting.    It's best to be 33% or less of the product cost.   So, $2000 product has to have cables less than $600.    To me cables are mostly for bling.  If they sound better, that's a bonus.


Perhaps Iliad 6-wired grounded cable? About $550. Optimized SQ as an IC, but because it is grounded so be careful to strictly follow the charging requirement (one device at a time). Chat with @Eric Chong if you are interested and want to know more.


----------



## SMOoth Operator

iFi audio said:


> It was designed to combat hiss and expand headroom on sensitive IEMs, so is a situational item for those who suffer these issues.


I believe someone mentioned these are not yet available in 4.4 balanced, any plans in the near future to do so @iFi audio  ??


----------



## bluestorm1992

My bad, it is actually $449 for the grounded Iliad IC. Comes with a nice leather case, too.

https://elementechnology.com/products/proadapt-series-interconnects?variant=39308592709731


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 29, 2021)

Grounded is not needed for Cayin C9, and especially for super short length of less than 50 feet’s.

Grounded with only connections from one plug to another will serve no purposes, except being there to just being there.  If Andy called a Line Out being Pseudo Line Out, *then a ground that does not have a proper means to Coaxially shielding the internal wirings* will also be Pseudo Ground.

However, using dedicated IC with Grounds will be a little more complicated with elevated risk

*not rocking anyone boat* just saying the truth


----------



## RTodd

Whitigir said:


> Grounded is not needed for Cayin C9, and especially for super short length of less than 50 feet’s.
> 
> Grounded with only connections from one plug to another will serve no purposes, except being there to just being there.  If Andy called a Line Out being Pseudo Line Out, then a ground that does not have a proper means to Coaxially shielding the internal wirings will also be Pseudo Ground.
> 
> ...


That what I was thinking to, we should recommend ungrounded interconnect for C9 use.


----------



## Whitigir

RTodd said:


> That what I was thinking to, we should recommend ungrounded interconnect for C9 use.


That is what I have been saying for a while now.  Using balanced 4.4-4.4 non grounded is a much better choices

Avoid 3.5 to 3.5 as it also isn’t as high performances as Balanced and also grounding issues with potential risks

I would try to build all of my systems which resolve around the C9 to be Balanced with no grounds as much as I could


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Whitigir said:


> That is what I have been saying for a while now.  Using balanced 4.4-4.4 non grounded is a much better choices
> 
> Avoid 3.5 to 3.5 as it also isn’t as high performances as Balanced and also grounding issues with potential risks
> 
> I would try to build all of my systems which resolve around the C9 to be Balanced with no grounds as much as I could


Wow.  These are issues I wasn't aware of.    What are the stock interconnects provided with the C9?


----------



## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> Grounded is not needed for Cayin C9, and especially for super short length of less than 50 feet’s.
> 
> Grounded with only connections from one plug to another will serve no purposes, except being there to just being there.  If Andy called a Line Out being Pseudo Line Out, *then a ground that does not have a proper means to Coaxially shielding the internal wirings* will also be Pseudo Ground.
> 
> ...


Yeah this piece puzzles me as Alex seems to be getting better results from his grounded Iliad IC.

Anyhow, I got the ungrounded version and have been pretty happy with it. And, I totally agree with Vince here that the 4.4, ungrounded IC provides the best protection for your gears.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 29, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Wow.  These are issues I wasn't aware of.    What are the stock interconnects provided with the C9?


Stock 4.4  IC is not grounded. The 3.5 IC is grounded (caused it has to be).


----------



## bigbeans

Oh no! Does this mean I need to get another IC? I haven't had any issues with my GND 6wire Iliad so far.


----------



## Whitigir

bigbeans said:


> Oh no! Does this mean I need to get another IC? I haven't had any issues with my GND 6wire Iliad so far.


You are fine! It is just that you have more risks that way lol!!!


----------



## SMOoth Operator (Apr 29, 2021)

@CayinSupport I heard a rumer about distributers having problems getting the C9 into the USA for import problems, possibly political or customs related. Bloom audio has had an order in for a while now and says they have been held at the port indefinitely. Supposedly the only reason Musicteck has them, is because they have a special relationship with Cayin and managed to find an "alternative method" of getting them into the country...Can you comment on this and elaborate on what is going on with the situation?


----------



## bigbeans

Whitigir said:


> You are fine! It is just that you have more risks that way lol!!!


Ah ha, cheers my friend. I like a little risk sometimes


----------



## bluestorm1992

SMOoth Operator said:


> @CayinSupport I heard a rumer about distributers having problems getting the C9 into the USA for import problems, possibly political or customs related. Bloom audio has had an order in for a while now and says they have been held at the port indefinitely. Supposedly the only reason Musicteck has them, is because they have a special relationship with Cayin and managed to find an "alternative method" of getting them into the country...Can you comment on this and elaborate on what is going on with the situation?


I think many dealers carry Cayin's products as well, like audio 46 and headphone.com, and they don't seem to have a problem with stocking Cayin products.


----------



## fuhransahis

Hey folks, might be a silly question but would it be OK to use a Macbook Pro charger for the C9? Is it built so that it throttles any voltage that's higher than it requires? I.e. using a higher powered charger won't damage it?


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 29, 2021)

fuhransahis said:


> Hey folks, might be a silly question but would it be OK to use a Macbook Pro charger for the C9? Is it built so that it throttles any voltage that's higher than it requires? I.e. using a higher powered charger won't damage it?


I would not do that out of caution. Do you have like a iPad or iPhone charger? If not, an Anker fast charger should work.

Edit: I think if you go to a regular convenience store, any of those brick chargers should work just fine as well.


----------



## fuhransahis

bluestorm1992 said:


> I would not do that out of caution. Do you have like a iPad or iPhone charger? If not, an Anker fast charger should work.
> 
> Edit: I think if you go to a regular convenience store, any of those brick chargers should work just fine as well.


Thanks! I had just ordered the Anker QC 3.0 right before asking this but the charger nearest me happened to be the Macbook one. So far so good luckily but I figured I'd stop and ask once it felt like it was warming up a bit.


----------



## bluestorm1992

fuhransahis said:


> Thanks! I had just ordered the Anker QC 3.0 right before asking this but the charger nearest me happened to be the Macbook one. So far so good luckily but I figured I'd stop and ask once it felt like it was warming up a bit.


Yeah for now probably don’t leave it like that all night. Unplug it as soon as it gets fully charged.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 29, 2021)

fuhransahis said:


> Thanks! I had just ordered the Anker QC 3.0 right before asking this but the charger nearest me happened to be the Macbook one. So far so good luckily but I figured I'd stop and ask once it felt like it was warming up a bit.


Hey! I just asked Liang, and he said a computer charger should work just fine. 

Still, it is best to avoid using it while charging. Also, always remember don't charge your source at the same time... We have a user who uses the laptop as the source and charges both the laptop and C9; ended up frying the PC's soundcard.


----------



## RTodd

bluestorm1992 said:


> Yeah for now probably don’t leave it like that all night. Unplug it as soon as it gets fully charged.


I would be interested to know how long the charge cycle was.


----------



## Whitigir

And the reason why I am adoring the M30 is that it also uses 18650 X 5, and it has the ability to charge upon %.  It can be plugged in all the time, and only trigger charging if you set it at 70% or 20%.  Whenever it is down lower than your set limit, it will charge and stop once it reach the 100% mark

It doesn’t have the ability to take in balanced input, except RCA and digital, but it also doesn’t have the potential risks of Shorting the ground lol, because it uses it own Laptop charger


----------



## fuhransahis

bluestorm1992 said:


> Hey! I just asked Liang, and he said a computer charger should work just fine.
> 
> Still, I guess it is best to avoid using it while charging.


Thanks again! And will do.

One more question on that point - is it OK to leave it charging overnight regardless of the adapter (i.e. assuming I use a QC3.0 one vs a computer charger)?

Thought I read somewhere that cause of the 18650 batteries, once fully charged we should stop charging. 🤔


----------



## bluestorm1992

fuhransahis said:


> Thanks again! And will do.
> 
> One more question on that point - is it OK to leave it charging overnight regardless of the adapter (i.e. assuming I use a QC3.0 one vs a computer charger)?
> 
> Thought I read somewhere that cause of the 18650 batteries, once fully charged we should stop charging. 🤔


Yes, I always leave it charging overnight. No problem.

The issue you described happens when you use it while charging it. Then, C9 will stop working when it reaches fully charged.


----------



## bigbeans

fuhransahis said:


> Thanks again! And will do.
> 
> One more question on that point - is it OK to leave it charging overnight regardless of the adapter (i.e. assuming I use a QC3.0 one vs a computer charger)?
> 
> Thought I read somewhere that cause of the 18650 batteries, once fully charged we should stop charging. 🤔


I leave my C9 plugged in while off for several days at a time. No issues.


----------



## RTodd

fuhransahis said:


> Thanks again! And will do.
> 
> One more question on that point - is it OK to leave it charging overnight regardless of the adapter (i.e. assuming I use a QC3.0 one vs a computer charger)?
> 
> Thought I read somewhere that cause of the 18650 batteries, once fully charged we should stop charging. 🤔


Hope not that would not fit my lifestyle.


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 29, 2021)

I don’t think keeping the C9 plugged in would pose any problems.  However, Cayin has stated it out loud in the Manual, that you do not connect the charger when it is full or so..... so, Cayin stated it out (they are safe), and if you burn down your house (it ain’t their)....LoL!

Anyways, I would adhere strictly toward Cayin recommendations regarding this matter.  I unplug as soon as it is full.  Sometimes I forgot overnight, but then I would unplug as soon as I pick it up and listen anyways.  Unless I prepare to leave it for a few days then I would just leave it as is, without charging


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 29, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> I don’t think keeping the C9 plugged in would pose any problems.  However, Cayin has stated it out loud in the Manual, that you do not connect the charger when it is full or so..... so, Cayin stated it out (they are safe), and if you burn down your house (it ain’t their)....LoL!
> 
> Anyways, I would adhere strictly toward Cayin recommendations regarding this matter.  I unplug as soon as it is full.  Sometimes I forgot overnight, but then I would unplug as soon as I pick it up and listen anyways.  Unless I prepare to leave it for a few days then I would just leave it as is, without charging


Hey Vince, I don't seem to have found the part that says to unplug it when fully charged in their user manual...

I also just asked Liang. Keep it charging all time is fine because they have protective circuits built-in. It is generally not a recommended behavior indeed, but they have built-in safety features.


----------



## aaf evo

I also charge mine overnight then just unplug in the morning.


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> Hey Vince, I don't seem to have found the part that says to unplug it when fully charged in their user manual...
> 
> I also just asked Liang. Keep it charging all time is fine because they have protective circuits built-in. It is generally not a recommended behavior indeed, but they have built-in safety features.


Number 4 ?


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 29, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> Number 4 ?


I was looking at their user manual on their website, and it does not have this part.   I guess they updated it recently? We got it so early, and the latest user manual is updated on Feb 5th. 

https://en.cayin.cn/download/?itemid=

Anyhow, seems fine doing so overall.


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> I was looking at their user manual on their website, and it does not have this part.
> 
> https://en.cayin.cn/download/?itemid=
> 
> Anyhow, seems fine doing so overall.


Should be at charging and then safety precautions

it should be fine, but Cayin states it out, and so they are safe , the rest is your responsibility.  So I advise yo stay adhered to Cayin advises


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Apr 29, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> Should be at charging and then safety precautions
> 
> it should be fine, but Cayin states it out, and so they are safe , the rest is your responsibility.  So I advise yo stay adhered to Cayin advises


OK, I saw that. Liang said it is generally fine doing so, but thanks for pointing this out!

Ah I got where the disconnection is from.

In the corresponding part, the Chinese is: 长期不使用本机时，请把充电插头拔掉。

The best translation is: *If you do not use the device for an extended period of time, please unplug the charger.*


----------



## fiascogarcia

Whitigir said:


> Number 4 ?


I also see I cannot use it in the shower!


----------



## RTodd

fiascogarcia said:


> I also see I cannot use it in the shower!


Hot tub or bathtub okay though?


----------



## fuhransahis

This combo...





I'm anxiously awaiting the dedicated LO module for the DX300.

In the meanwhile though, I just switched to try out the Pre-Amp mode... immediately became more spacious and clean and retained its detailed smoothness. Sticking to this mode until then!


----------



## Jeffyue (Apr 29, 2021)

Hi guys, come across this when wandering on Amazon...  Anybody knows if this would fit a C9 stack with, say, N6ii / DX300?

The spec is 175mm*100mm and the depth is adjustable...

https://www.vannuys.co.jp/official/new_item/ve192/


----------



## SMOoth Operator

Jeffyue said:


> Hi guys, come across this when wandering on Amazon...  Anybody knows if this would fit a C9 stack with, say, N6ii / DX300?
> 
> The spec is 175mm*100mm and the depth is adjustable...
> 
> https://www.vannuys.co.jp/official/new_item/ve192/


No way! Dx300 and C9 are two Chonkey Bois!


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> Number 4 ?



My understanding of extended period of time are counting in days or weeks, not hours, but English is not my mother languages, so I might be wrong here. 

I did advise users to unplug from charger as soon as the amplifier is fully charge but that was when you charge and playback at the same time (*HERE*):


> You can charge and playback C9 at the same time before the batteries is fully charged. 18650 Lithium battery charge control is divided into two phases. The first phase is constant current charging. When the battery voltage is lower than 4.2 V, the charger will charge with a constant current. The second stage is the constant voltage charging stage, when the battery voltage reaches 4.2 V, due to the characteristics of the lithium battery, if the voltage is high, it will be damaged, the charger will fix the voltage at 4.2 V, and the charging current will gradually decrease. Therefore, if you charge and playback at the same time and your charging rate is faster than discharge rate, the 18650 batteries will reach 4.2V eventually. The problem is, when you continue to charge and playback at this moment, C9 power management cannot enter the constant voltage charge stage, this will put C9 into protection mode. You can revoke C9 from protection mode by disconnecting everything and charge it for 10 second. You are advised to disconnect C9 from charging when the fourth battery LED is flashing in these circumstances.



If you are charging the C9 at idle, the battery module will enter the second stage correctly and protect the battery properly.  So charging the C9 overnight is perfectly safe.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Andykong said:


> My understanding of extended period of time are counting in days or weeks, not hours, but English is not my mother languages, so I might be wrong here.
> 
> I did advise users to unplug from charger as soon as the amplifier is fully charge but that was when you charge and playback at the same time (*HERE*):
> 
> ...


Thanks Andy!

The original Chinese is: 长期不使用本机时，请把充电插头拔掉。


----------



## Andykong

Jeffyue said:


> Hi guys, come across this when wandering on Amazon...  Anybody knows if this would fit a C9 stack with, say, N6ii / DX300?
> 
> The spec is 175mm*100mm and the depth is adjustable...
> 
> https://www.vannuys.co.jp/official/new_item/ve192/


This one probably won't fit C9 and DAP together, but check THIS out, this might be the one that you are looking for.


----------



## Andykong

bluestorm1992 said:


> Thanks Andy!
> 
> The original Chinese is: 长期不使用本机时，请把充电插头拔掉。



Well, to be fair, Whitigir quoted the English user manual which should also consider original content, we can't dismiss the important of correct English content and shouldn't expect users to read the Chinese manual in order to pursue the original meaning.


----------



## bigbeans

Real audiophiles learn Chinese by reading the original Cayin manuals.

"Do you know directions to nearest amplification stage?"
"what type of Class are you?"--> that would have a whole different meaning in India lol


----------



## bluestorm1992

Andykong said:


> Well, to be fair, Whitigir quoted the English user manual which should also consider original content, we can't dismiss the important of correct English content and shouldn't expect users to read the Chinese manual in order to pursue the original meaning.


Thanks Andy! I feel like the English manual here may be slightly updated to better define what an “extended period of time” means which, based on your explanation just now, should be in days or even in weeks.


----------



## LabelH

Today, I tried C9 + V14 after listening V14 standalone for understanding and burn-in. To be honest, I almost give up on V14 
But I could say C9 save V14, soundstage become wider, tone also become more pleasant. Highly recommended V14 with C9.


----------



## Andykong

bluestorm1992 said:


> Thanks Andy! I feel like the English manual here may be slightly updated to better define what an “extended period of time” means which, based on your explanation just now, should be in days or even in weeks.


Thank you for your suggestion but I don't find any discrepancy here.  Extended period of time is the correct translation,  one can also argued that overnight charging is not recommended after reading thr chinese manual, and when you try to provide ”the best translation”, you also resorted to ”extended period of time", right?


----------



## SMOoth Operator

Has anyone found better batteries yet, that hold charge for a longer period of time??


----------



## Whitigir

SMOoth Operator said:


> Has anyone found better batteries yet, that hold charge for a longer period of time??


Authentic 18650 can hold charge for A very long time, if you don’t use them


----------



## cheznous

SMOoth Operator said:


> Has anyone found better batteries yet, that hold charge for a longer period of time??


EFEST 3.5K mah​Very impressed so far.


----------



## soundblast75

cheznous said:


> EFEST 3.5K mah​Very impressed so far.


They are tops, i have used over 2 charges now, swapping with Sonys, no problems


----------



## soundblast75

bigbeans said:


> Real audiophiles learn Chinese by reading the original Cayin manuals.
> 
> "Do you know directions to nearest amplification stage?"
> "what type of Class are you?"--> that would have a whole different meaning in India lol


Haha, im no real audiophile, so thanks for English Manual 🤣😅


----------



## Kiats

Enjoying the Shanling M8 LO into the C9. Using the Eletech 4.4mm Plato ICs. Love the voicing of the M8. Though truth be told, it is still trumped by the Shanling M30. By a fair margin.


----------



## soundblast75

Kiats said:


> Enjoying the Shanling M8 LO into the C9. Using the Eletech 4.4mm Plato ICs. Love the voicing of the M8. Though truth be told, it is still trumped by the Shanling M30. By a fair margin.


And M8 c9 vs M30?


----------



## Kiats

soundblast75 said:


> And M8 c9 vs M30?



For me, the M30. Especially love its implementation of the Korg Nutube. Of course the M30 is meant to be a desktop, rather than portable.


----------



## Whitigir

Kiats said:


> Enjoying the Shanling M8 LO into the C9. Using the Eletech 4.4mm Plato ICs. Love the voicing of the M8. Though truth be told, it is still trumped by the Shanling M30. By a fair margin.


The only way to get better than M8 is by using the M30.  The pairing of the C9 rely heavily upon the source, and by far, I have only found either a dedicated desktop DAC, or N6ii/A02 to be able to bring forth the performances that can be on par with M30.  The other modules from N6ii that Has dedicated line out is probably E02, which I never tried.

The M8 + C9 is behind M30 ,that is due to the reason that the LO on the M8 isn’t dedicated line out, and Shanling has confirmed that it would be double amping.  I found that the M8 double amping were great with some amps, and not with others.  I think it is based on the impedances of the amplifier input and M8 output.  I can only tell for sure is that the C9, for some reasons, can tell you which has a true line out and which has not.  I tell by listening of course, the imaging will not be as definitive, the placements of instruments are confusing, and the timbres may not at all be Accurate (likely to have it own signatures).

The M30 has a very clean and high performances in the “Bypass Mode”, and until now, I don’t even know what it “bypass” exactly.  But in this mode alone, it is like an M8 in all it glory plus powerful output and finesses of desktop setup, similar to N6/A02 + C9 Class AB and SS.  The Transistors mode is like N6/A02 + C9 class A and tubes .  The Tubes mode is a little more emphasized into the warmth, the slow transients, the liquidity, the reverberated ambients, it is different than C9 at any modes and sound much closer to classic tubes amps.  At this point, it is safe to say that the Tube on M30 is very different than C9, one is classic and the other is modern hybrid....given that both of them are hybrid

Both systems deserves it own place in your arsenal.  Each will have it own pros and cons, and You can’t go wrong with either one.... the only thing wrong is that A02nis no longer available *shrug*


----------



## RTodd

Whitigir said:


> The only way to get better than M8 is by using the M30.  The pairing of the C9 rely heavily upon the source, and by far, I have only found either a dedicated desktop DAC, or N6ii/A02 to be able to bring forth the performances that can be on par with M30.  The other modules from N6ii that Has dedicated line out is probably E02, which I never tried.
> 
> The M8 + C9 is behind M30 ,that is due to the reason that the LO on the M8 isn’t dedicated line out, and Shanling has confirmed that it would be double amping.  I found that the M8 double amping were great with some amps, and not with others.  I think it is based on the impedances of the amplifier input and M8 output.  I can only tell for sure is that the C9, for some reasons, can tell you which has a true line out and which has not.  I tell by listening of course, the imaging will not be as definitive, the placements of instruments are confusing, and the timbres may not at all be Accurate (likely to have it own signatures).
> 
> ...


Have you tried any other true line out players?
Such as Lotoo or L&P with the C9, wondering how that compares to N6ii/A02 and if the same applies to the M30 comparison and still being worth it.


----------



## Whitigir

RTodd said:


> Have you tried any other true line out players?
> Such as Lotoo or L&P with the C9, wondering how that compares to N6ii/A02 and if the same applies to the M30 comparison and still being worth it



I have not, I gotta be a lot more sensible with my hobby currently.  I can tell you a for sure thing that even Ibasso Max and dedicated line out won’t be as good as A02 and C9.  They are very close, but A02 pulls ahead in nitpicking standoff


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Man, I am using this C9 so much that I need 2 full charges per day for my current usage.   I read the discussion about batteries and decided to get the Sony replacement batteries because I didn't want to get the EFEST batteries from the UK and the shipping delay that would entail.  So, I got 4 of them along with protective cases for safe storage while not in use.   Plus I got a so called fast charger from Amazon.   Should have everything by early next week.  Total cost including tax and expedited shipping for everything was about $75.

 I haven't opened up the C9.   Is it easy?    Just use the tool included and swap out the batteries like a remote control?    Any best practice recommendations for battery charging and management using an external charger?    I am thinking charging C9 and external batteries over night.  Use C9 until it runs out of power, swapping batteries and charging discharged batteries.  Rinse and repeat.    Is there anything more than that?


----------



## piercer

Whitigir said:


> Authentic 18650 can hold charge for A very long time, if you don’t use them


I'll second that my old A2P TU-05 uses the same batteries and I can leave it for months at a time, come back and they still have charge.


----------



## Whitigir

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Man, I am using this C9 so much that I need 2 full charges per day for my current usage.   I read the discussion about batteries and decided to get the Sony replacement batteries because I didn't want to get the EFEST batteries from the UK and the shipping delay that would entail.  So, I got 4 of them along with protective cases for safe storage while not in use.   Plus I got a so called fast charger from Amazon.   Should have everything by early next week.  Total cost including tax and expedited shipping for everything was about $75.
> 
> I haven't opened up the C9.   Is it easy?    Just use the tool included and swap out the batteries like a remote control?    Any best practice recommendations for battery charging and management using an external charger?    I am thinking charging C9 and external batteries over night.  Use C9 until it runs out of power, swapping batteries and charging discharged batteries.  Rinse and repeat.    Is there anything more than that?


Very easy to replace battery cells in C9.  The included tool is all you need


----------



## fuhransahis

(Making sure I'm reading the below chart correctly)

While using PRE mode in C9:
- with C9 in low gain, the input voltage can be up to 8.4V
- with C9 in high gaih, the input voltage can be up to 4.2V

(?)


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Whitigir said:


> You can easily replace 18650 batteries in the C9 by simply having it at full charge before swapping it in/out
> 
> Rolling batteries isn’t cheap either, and different brands, chemical, will result in different sound signatures.


Batteries change the sound signature?   I am skeptical.


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Batteries change the sound signature?   I am skeptical.


The discharge rate (CDR) will affect the device's performance. The stock ones are pretty top-notched on this aspect,  but there are some batteries that do not do a good job.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> The discharge rate (CDR) will affect the device's performance. The stock ones are pretty top-notched on this aspect,  but there are some batteries that do not do a good job.


Are the Sony batteries stock?  That is what I bought.


----------



## twister6 (Apr 30, 2021)

Kiats said:


> For me, the M30. Especially love its implementation of the Korg Nutube. Of course the M30 is meant to be a desktop, rather than portable.



What IEM is at the end of that Eletech cable? 

Regarding M30 with its dual NuTube vs C9, for my personal taste I prefer C9.  I'm not used to desktop type of gear, more familiar with a portable setup, and M30 w/NuTubes has a warmer and thicker tube sound with a narrow and more intimate soundstage.  C9 w/NuTubes has a noticeably wider soundstage and more transparent, detailed, and cleaner sound.  Tbh, I actually like SS output of M30 better than its NuTube, but again, all is a matter of a personal taste and preference, especially since I'm not used to desktop type of gear with warmer tube distortion and narrower soundstage.   Maybe that is a reason some prefer WA8 over C9 because they want a more tubey type of sound, while I find C9 to be the best alternative for me.  I can only dream of the next Cayin flagship DAP with the same dual NuTube implementation as C9


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Are the Sony batteries stock?  That is what I bought.


There are different Sony 18650 batteries. Which ones are you getting?

https://www.orbtronic.com/sony-vtc6-18650-battery-flat-top

These are the stock ones I believe.


----------



## Kiats

twister6 said:


> What IEM is at the end of that Eletech cable?


It's the FitEar DC.


----------



## Whitigir

twister6 said:


> What IEM is at the end of that Eletech cable?
> 
> Regarding M30 with its dual NuTube vs C9, for my personal taste I prefer C9.  I'm not used to desktop type of gear, more familiar with a portable setup, and M30 w/NuTubes has a warmer and thicker tube sound with a narrow and more intimate soundstage.  C9 w/NuTubes has a noticeably wider soundstage and more transparent, detailed, and cleaner sound.  Tbh, I actually like SS output of M30 better than its NuTube, but again, all is a matter of a personal taste and preference, especially since I'm not used to desktop type of gear with warmer tube distortion and narrower soundstage.   Maybe that is a reason some prefer WA8 over C9 because they want a more tubey type of sound, while I find C9 to be the best alternative for me.  I can only dream of the next Cayin flagship DAP with the same dual NuTube implementation as C9


I agree with all that you said.  I do also prefer the Bypass and SS more on the M30, but their tubes are also very good, depends on preferences.  I can see people who seek for more tubes sound from the C9 to be enjoying M30 tubes.

the latest Hifi releases by China are getting crazily good !!!


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Apr 30, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> There are different Sony 18650 batteries. Which ones are you getting?
> 
> https://www.orbtronic.com/sony-vtc6-18650-battery-flat-top
> 
> These are the stock ones I believe.


Yes.  Same ones.   Same part number from a US battery wholesaler.   Slightly better price.    Just got a notice that my batteries have already shipped.

https://liionwholesale.com/collecti...at-top-wholesale-discount?variant=28023263057

I want to note that this wholesaler claims to do testing of the batteries to ensure that they are real.   They also have the other Sony 18650 with lower capacity.  They are cheaper but also mostly sold out.   When I purchased them, it warned me of the potential fire hazard with these batteries and they offered cheap battery holders.   They also have chargers, but I just got one from Amazon.


----------



## SMOoth Operator

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Yes.  Same ones.   Same part number from a US battery wholesaler.   Slightly better price.    Just got a notice that my batteries have already shipped.
> 
> https://liionwholesale.com/collecti...at-top-wholesale-discount?variant=28023263057


I do not understand, so you are replacing the batteries with the same ones that are stock, or are you replacing with different batteries??


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Apr 30, 2021)

SMOoth Operator said:


> I do not understand, so you are replacing the batteries with the same ones that are stock, or are you replacing with different batteries??


I am not replacing the batteries.   I am getting extra batteries that I can charge while I am listening so that I don't have to wait 2-3 hours between charges to pause my listening or change my source.

This is so I do not have to charge my C9 while listening to it especially since my main source is a Hugo 2 which is best operated in desktop mode meaning it is always plugged in.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Question for @lumdicks.     Where did you get your RCA to 3.5mm interconnect for your Hugo 2 to C9?     I've searched everywhere and I can only find 0.6 meter cables with this configuration.    I need a 6 inch cable.    I found a cheap one on Amazon which I will use until I can find the right cable.   I am hoping you found a good one somewhere in the world.


----------



## SMOoth Operator

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I am not replacing the batteries.   I am getting extra batteries that I can charge while I am listening so that I don't have to wait 2-3 hours between charges to pause my listening or change my source.
> 
> This is so I do not have to charge my C9 while listening to it especially since my main source is a Hugo 2 which is best operated in desktop mode meaning it is always plugged in.


Is it easy to hot swap batteries like this in the C9? If so I might try that too, but seems like it might be unnecessary ware on components, no.....??


----------



## Whitigir

SMOoth Operator said:


> Is it easy to hot swap batteries like this in the C9? If so I might try that too, but seems like it might be unnecessary ware on components, no.....??


There is no hot swap.  You turn off the C9. Unscrew the tray, then slide it out, take out the cells, and put the new cells in.  You just need to be careful of the polarity to make sure that you don’t mess up (which is pretty easy to be messed up btw)

Then put back in, and turn in those screws as a lock


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

SMOoth Operator said:


> Is it easy to hot swap batteries like this in the C9? If so I might try that too, but seems like it might be unnecessary ware on components, no.....??


I am going to find out.    The biggest wear and tear will likely be the screws on the C9 that allows you to open up the case.


----------



## SMOoth Operator

Whitigir said:


> Authentic 18650 can hold charge for A very long time, if you don’t use them


I meant batteries with a longer play time than the stock ones...?


----------



## SMOoth Operator

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I am going to find out.    The biggest wear and tear will likely be the screws on the C9 that allows you to open up the case.


Sounds like a bad idea, doing that constantly is not how the Amp was designed, you are going to end up stripping something out or worse. Better to just find some batteries with a longer MilliAmpHour rating.


----------



## Whitigir

SMOoth Operator said:


> I meant batteries with a longer play time than the stock ones...?


3500mAH and 3600mAH are the highest at this moment, whatever else is probably fake.  Orbtronic has some 3500mAH that also has good performances too


----------



## SMOoth Operator

Whitigir said:


> 3500mAH and 3600mAH are the highest at this moment, whatever else is probably fake.  Orbtronic has some 3500mAH that also has good performances too


Out of the best ones you have seen, which ones do you recommend? I trust your judgement, so am just going to get the ones you recommend...?


----------



## Whitigir

SMOoth Operator said:


> Out of the best ones you have seen, which ones do you recommend? I trust your judgement, so am just going to get the ones you recommend...?


This is the one I recommend 
https://www.orbtronic.com/3500mah-18650-imr-battery-high-drain-rechargeable-orbtronic-li-ion


----------



## RTodd

Whitigir said:


> This is the one I recommend
> https://www.orbtronic.com/3500mah-18650-imr-battery-high-drain-rechargeable-orbtronic-li-ion


Out of stock. Must have been a lot of C9s sold unless these are used by vapors.


----------



## masahito24@chart

Whitigir said:


> This is the one I recommend
> https://www.orbtronic.com/3500mah-18650-imr-battery-high-drain-rechargeable-orbtronic-li-ion


Picked up 2 sets of 4, and I agree that these are a step up from the stock Sony batteries.


----------



## SMOoth Operator

Whitigir said:


> This is the one I recommend
> https://www.orbtronic.com/3500mah-18650-imr-battery-high-drain-rechargeable-orbtronic-li-ion


What is the "MaH" of the batteries that come stock? I have not opened my amp yet...


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

SMOoth Operator said:


> What is the "MaH" of the batteries that come stock? I have not opened my amp yet...


3000


----------



## iFi audio

Whitigir said:


> You really are everywhere !!!! Lol!!


----------



## SMOoth Operator

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> 3000


Cool, so those 3500's should add atleast another solid hour.


----------



## lumdicks

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Question for @lumdicks.     Where did you get your RCA to 3.5mm interconnect for your Hugo 2 to C9?     I've searched everywhere and I can only find 0.6 meter cables with this configuration.    I need a 6 inch cable.    I found a cheap one on Amazon which I will use until I can find the right cable.   I am hoping you found a good one somewhere in the world.




It is a QED cable that I got it from a local dealer in Hong Kong. I found the same one with an online shop in UK as above so you can check.


----------



## szore

seanwee said:


> Is hoping for a 500-750 dollar price tag too much?
> 
> The whole thing looks good but I feel like having square cutouts for the nutubes would have been more aesthetically fitting.
> 
> Still, if it sounds good I wouldn't care


Yeah the oval windows look a little chincy


----------



## cheznous

Got my Custom Cans cable yesterday. Better fit than the adapter.


----------



## Whitigir

cheznous said:


> Got my Custom Cans cable yesterday. Better fit than the adapter.


Nice! But what is the 4.4 Jack ? I see Furutech for ground or is it ?


----------



## DaYooper

Whitigir said:


> Nice! But what is the 4.4 Jack ? I see Furutech for ground or is it ?


It's doing the same thing as the PW adaptor  and others, do for the A&K daps. But in my view it defeats the purpose of those one piece adapters, that is to stabilize the wimpy and easy to break 2.5 connection.


----------



## RTodd (May 1, 2021)

Saturday morning with P6K C9 Thummim Chesky in Tube A.
Yesterday there was a lot of Prog talk so last night late blew the dust off of Floyd Meddle with the lights out.
This is such an awesome pairing for this kind of music.


----------



## cheznous

DaYooper said:


> It's doing the same thing as the PW adaptor  and others, do for the A&K daps. But in my view it defeats the purpose of those one piece adapters, that is to stabilize the wimpy and easy to break 2.5 connection.


I have yet to break a 2.5mm connection and you have to play the hand you are dealt with re the SP2000. I prefer the cable to the adapter as it is one piece and to me more aesthetically pleasing.


----------



## DaYooper

cheznous said:


> I have yet to break a 2.5mm connection and you have to play the hand you are dealt with re the SP2000. I prefer the cable to the adapter as it is one piece and to me more aesthetically pleasing.


Lucky you then. Many have. As for the ground use of the 3.5 connection, it seems to me sort of a red herring. Not needed.  simple 2.5 to 4.4 adapter is all that is required to get the music out.


----------



## Whitigir

DaYooper said:


> Lucky you then. Many have. As for the ground use of the 3.5 connection, it seems to me sort of a red herring. *Not needed*.  simple 2.5 to 4.4 adapter is all that is required to get the music out.


Exactly ! Same as the C9 and it 4.4


----------



## Whitigir

M30 and C9/A02 side by side for comparisons 

C9 is as small as 1 module of the M30, but it needs a source and when you count in a reasonable source IC then it could be as long as M30!  With A02 N6ii, it get thicker than M30.  It is at least %50 lighter than M30 as a stack


----------



## jmills8

Whitigir said:


> M30 and C9/A02 side by side for comparisons
> 
> C9 is as small as 1 module of the M30, but it needs a source and when you count in a reasonable source IC then it could be as long as M30!  With A02 N6ii, it get thicker than M30.  It is at least %50 lighter than M30 as a stack


Is your dmp still in rotation or is it placed on a self ?


----------



## ian91

I am currently trying very hard not to sell of my headphones/desktop amp and go all in with a C9 and live the portable/IEM life.


----------



## bluestorm1992

ian91 said:


> I am currently trying very hard not to sell of my headphones/desktop amp and go all in with a C9 and live the portable/IEM life.


I did that and it has made my music enjoyment a lot easier. Only keeping the Diana V2 and have let go all of my desktop gears. Both me and my wife are a lot happier now; me for the portability and she for not having so much space occupied.


----------



## fiascogarcia

Whitigir said:


> M30 and C9/A02 side by side for comparisons
> 
> C9 is as small as 1 module of the M30, but it needs a source and when you count in a reasonable source IC then it could be as long as M30!  With A02 N6ii, it get thicker than M30.  It is at least %50 lighter than M30 as a stack


Wow, the M30 is larger than I thought!  Not sure if it warrants comparison with the C9 or with full blown desk top components.  I guess its modular design makes it a little more tidy, and I suppose the price keeps it in the lower range of desk top pricing when you consider it is a soup to nuts package.


----------



## ian91

bluestorm1992 said:


> I did that and it has made my music enjoyment a lot easier. Only keeping the Diana V2 and have let go all of my desktop gears. Both me and my wife are a lot happier now; me for the portability and she for not having so much space occupied.



This is definitely part of the appeal. However, something that I didn't expect was preferring the presentation of sound offered by IEMs vs headphones. I never got drastically high up the headphone ladder (stopping at the Arya), and although it has a lot of bombast and power there's sometimes something lacking from the whole experience...


----------



## cheznous

DaYooper said:


> Lucky you then. Many have. As for the ground use of the 3.5 connection, it seems to me sort of a red herring. Not needed.  simple 2.5 to 4.4 adapter is all that is required to get the music out.


Can you quantify “many”. Not one of my acquaintances have had an issue. 
So perhaps more unlucky you I think. 
With regard the cable it was easier to get with the 3.5 than without in cable form.


----------



## bluestorm1992

ian91 said:


> This is definitely part of the appeal. However, something that I didn't expect was preferring the presentation of sound offered by IEMs vs headphones. I never got drastically high up the headphone ladder (stopping at the Arya), and although it has a lot of bombast and power there's sometimes something lacking from the whole experience...


Same for me. IEM has that intimacy and details. When pushed from C9, they reach the same level of holographic soundstage and even resolution as my Diana V2.


----------



## ian91 (May 1, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> Same for me. IEM has that intimacy and details. When pushed from C9, they reach the same level of holographic soundstage and even resolution as my Diana V2.



You're not helping me avoid spending more money! Haha!

Edit: also completely agree - the intimacy and detail of a good IEM seem to allow it to place the stage in what feels like a more realistic dimension for me.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (May 1, 2021)

Today, I am pairing my Hiby R6 2020 with the C9.    It is another fantastic pairing.   It sounds significantly better than the DX160 + C9.    Not sure why.   Maybe because it has separate Line out capabilities.    The L&P W2 didn't sound good with the C9 either. maybe for the same reason.     Line in sounds better than Pre-amp mode.   And, it does a great job as transport for my ZMF VC in tube mode.    I A/B/C tested it paired with C9 vs Hugo 2 and DX160.   It sounds a lot better than the DX160 and much closer to the Hugo 2 than I expected.  I still prefer the Hugo 2, but I am not going to nitpick because the sound is really really good.   

I need to make sure I am not hearing things that aren't there.   I need to A/B/C test the W2, DX160 and R6 2020 because on a standalone basis, I thought that I preferred the W2 and DX160 over the R6 2020.    With the C9, I prefer the R6 2020 over the DX160 and W2.   I need to reset my brain and listen again to confirm or update my preferences and eliminate any expectation bias.


----------



## bluestorm1992

ian91 said:


> You're not helping me avoid spending more money! Haha!
> 
> Edit: also completely agree - the intimacy and detail of a good IEM seem to allow it to place the stage in what feels like a more realistic dimension for me.


Actually, I end up “saving” some money from buying C9 since I was able to sell all my desktop gears for like $3K.


----------



## bigbeans

bluestorm1992 said:


> Actually, I end up “saving” some money from buying C9 since I was able to sell all my desktop gears for like $3K.


Stop making me feel guilty


----------



## RTodd (May 1, 2021)

Wanted to make sure I understand the Line vs Pre Mode switch. Think I got it but just in case.

The standard mode is Line, regardless of the switch position when you power up the C9, you will be in Line.

Line; you really want a source where the output to the C9 is pre the sources volume control and the amplification components of the source, full power out from the source, you than use the C9 volume control not the sources. In this mode make sure to set the C9 volume control to zero before connecting the headphones than raise the volume using the C9.

Pre; you need to be careful, the source volume control is what you will be using to control volume. The C9 volume control is no longer in the circuit. The C9 is quite powerful and it would  in this mode be outputting at its max level to your drivers. You start by turning the sources volume all the way down and than once the mode is engaged on the C9 you can carefully increase the volume on the source.

I was imagining that depending on which item the C9 or the Source has the best volume control may drive the choice to use Pre. To me though I am not really seeing the use case for Pre?


----------



## fuhransahis (May 1, 2021)

RTodd said:


> Wanted to make sure I understand the Line vs Pre Mode switch. Think I got it but just in case.
> 
> The standard mode is Line, regardless of the switch position when you power up the C9, you will be in Line.
> 
> ...


I'm using the Pre mode with DX300 since it doesn't have true Line Out at the moment (until their LO module comes out soon) but I wouldn't just use it for that sole reason if I heard no improvements. I'm getting better staging and resolution as well.

Similarly, the use case would be to get a bit of the flavor from the amp section of the source you're using, combined with a final bit of flavor from the C9 amp modes, for a little bit of a musical stew.

Related question on my end: when in PRE mode, should the input voltage to the C9 be limited to no more than 4.2V when then C9 is in high gain, and no more than 8.4V when the C9 is in low gain?

I.e. I shouldn't use the balanced output of the DX300 (7.1V or so) into the C9 in PRE mode with the C9 in high gain?


----------



## bluestorm1992

RTodd said:


> Wanted to make sure I understand the Line vs Pre Mode switch. Think I got it but just in case.
> 
> The standard mode is Line, regardless of the switch position when you power up the C9, you will be in Line.
> 
> ...


Exactly as @fuhransahis said, the benefit from the pre mode is that you also get the flavor of the amp from the source. Although this is a bit of the double amping (both the source’s amp and C9), it could sometimes get desirable outcomes depending on your preference.

In some cases like with 1Z, you don’t really have a choice since it does not have a true LO and its output power is pretty weak. And, so many people have been enjoying the wonderful Sony sound signature from 1Z, so the pre-mode is the natural choice.


----------



## Whitigir

Except, Premode is such a hassle with the switch, and the risk of blowing one eardrums lol


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Today, I am pairing my Hiby R6 2020 with the C9.    It is another fantastic pairing.   It sounds significantly better than the DX160 + C9.    Not sure why.   Maybe because it has separate Line out capabilities.    The L&P W2 didn't sound good with the C9 either. maybe for the same reason.     Line in sounds better than Pre-amp mode.   And, it does a great job as transport for my ZMF VC in tube mode.    I A/B/C tested it paired with C9 vs Hugo 2 and DX160.   It sounds a lot better than the DX160 and much closer to the Hugo 2 than I expected.  I still prefer the Hugo 2, but I am not going to nitpick because the sound is really really good.
> 
> I need to make sure I am not hearing things that aren't there.   I need to A/B/C test the W2, DX160 and R6 2020 because on a standalone basis, I thought that I preferred the W2 and DX160 over the R6 2020.    With the C9, I prefer the R6 2020 over the DX160 and W2.   I need to reset my brain and listen again to confirm or update my preferences and eliminate any expectation bias.


I think this just says how good the DAC implementation of R6 really is.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Whitigir said:


> Except, Premode is such a hassle with the switch, and the risk of blowing one eardrums lol


Yes.   I did that this week with the DX160.  It was very painful.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (May 1, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> I think this just says how good the DAC implementation of R6 really is.


or how much its amp sucks.   Haha.

Anyway, now I want to A/B test the R8 + C9 vs R6 2020 + C9.     The latter is so much a better value.  But, it doesn't sound as good standalone, so you lose that use case.


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> or how much its amp sucks.   Haha.


Hahah indeed.

Well it is like $1000 cheaper than R8 as I remember? We can now say where part of that cost saving comes from.


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> or how much its amp sucks.   Haha.
> 
> Anyway, now I want to A/B test the R8 + C9 vs R6 2020 + C9.     The latter is so much a better value.  But, it doesn't sound as good standalone, so you lose that use case.


Andrew has an audition unit of R8 if you ever get interested.


----------



## bluestorm1992

fuhransahis said:


> I'm using the Pre mode with DX300 since it doesn't have true Line Out at the moment (until their LO module comes out soon) but I wouldn't just use it for that sole reason if I heard no improvements. I'm getting better staging and resolution as well.
> 
> Similarly, the use case would be to get a bit of the flavor from the amp section of the source you're using, combined with a final bit of flavor from the C9 amp modes, for a little bit of a musical stew.
> 
> ...


I imagine if the input voltage is too high, with C9’s pre mode, it can get way too loud.

If you don’t hear it loud or any distortion, it should be fine I think.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (May 1, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> Andrew has an audition unit of R8 if you ever get interested.


On paper, the R6 2020 + C9 pairing looks like a good match for sound, features and price-performance.    I am relieved that it turns to work well and sound good in reality..    For a standalone DAP for walking outside, the DX160 is fine because it is light, cheap and sounds really good if not TOTL but good enough.   The R6 2020 + C9 sounds so good, I may not need to bring the Hugo 2 when I travel.   Just leave it home as a desktop solution.

I think I am going to be much more prudent on my next DAP purchase.   There are so many possibly good choices.   I want to hear them first and make sure that I am getting something I don't get now.    On paper, I like the DX300, but I can't rule out the new Cayin DAP either.


----------



## cheznous

Having had the C9 for a few weeks now and having spent many happy hours, listening to the various permutations, I currently favour vacuum tube and AB setting. This surprised me as I thought it would be Tube but Class A. 
Still the extended battery life is a pleasant upside of this.


----------



## Whitigir

cheznous said:


> Having had the C9 for a few weeks now and having spent many happy hours, listening to the various permutations, I currently favour vacuum tube and AB setting. This surprised me as I thought it would be Tube but Class A.
> Still the extended battery life is a pleasant upside of this.


The joys of having so many different packages in one


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

cheznous said:


> Having had the C9 for a few weeks now and having spent many happy hours, listening to the various permutations, I currently favour vacuum tube and AB setting. This surprised me as I thought it would be Tube but Class A.
> Still the extended battery life is a pleasant upside of this.


I just tried this and I prefer Class A with Tube.   To me, it has a richer sound.


----------



## RTodd (May 1, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I just tried this and I prefer Class A with Tube.   To me, it has a richer sound.





cheznous said:


> Having had the C9 for a few weeks now and having spent many happy hours, listening to the various permutations, I currently favour vacuum tube and AB setting. This surprised me as I thought it would be Tube but Class A.
> Still the extended battery life is a pleasant upside of this.



Same question for both of you what HP/IEM are you using? I am on the fence. Wondering if you hear it that way regardless of type of drivers?


----------



## Whitigir

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I just tried this and I prefer Class A with Tube.   To me, it has a richer sound.


Yepe! And as far as Korg tubes goes, the richer and creamier sound would be the M30


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (May 1, 2021)

RTodd said:


> Same question for both of you what HP/IEM are you using? I am on the fence. Wondering if you hear it that way regardless of type of drivers?


Sony IER-Z1R.    These IEMs really soar with the C9.    Same with the ZMF Verite Closed.

The bass line in any great jazz recording is the most live sounding I've heard with the Z1R and C9 using either R6 2020 or Hugo 2 as source.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (May 1, 2021)

I've been listening to the R6 2020 + C9 for most of the day.  This pairing really works.   I noticed that for masters recordings, the sampling rate is 768khz.   This must have something to do with the sound quality I am experiencing.    For apples to apples, I'll need to use my Bluesound Node 2i streamer and an mscaler with the Hugo 2.    I think that is what @lumdicks is doing.   I need to get me an mscaler and put it in this chain with the streamer to get rid of USB.    But then, this is no longer transportable.


----------



## Whitigir

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I've been listening to the R6 2020 + C9 for most of the day.  This pairing really works.   I noticed that for masters recordings, the sampling rate is 768khz.   This must have something to do with the sound quality I am experiencing.    For apples to apples, I'll need to use my Bluesound Node 2i streamer and an mscaler with the Hugo 2.    I think that is what @lumdicks is doing.   I need to get me an mscaler and put it in this chain with the streamer to get rid of USB.    But then, this is no longer transportable.


You have master recording at 768Khz ?


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Whitigir said:


> You have master recording at 768Khz ?


I don't know if what I am looking at is real.  Here is a picture of my R6 2020 playing "Sunday Morning" by Maroon 5.  It's streaming from Tidal.   Click on picture and look at the upper right hand corner next to battery level.


----------



## Kiats

Enjoyed a bit of time with the FiiO M15 and the C9, driving the FitEar DC, with Eletech Iliad 3.5mm IC and Iliad cable to the IEM with a Eletech Plato 4.4mm>2.5mm pigtail adapter. Thanks to @Eric Chong for sending the IC and adapter across on Friday to make it possible for a great listening weekend!


----------



## RTodd (May 1, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Sony IER-Z1R.    These IEMs really soar with the C9.    Same with the ZMF Verite Closed.
> 
> The bass line in any great jazz recording is the most live sounding I've heard with the Z1R and C9 using either R6 2020 or Hugo 2 as source.


Yes that jazz bass on C9 is incredible to me. Scott LaFaro on Sunday at the Village Vanguard  with Bill Evans, as many times as I have heard that, I never heard it like that, could hear the wood crackling.


----------



## CANiSLAYu

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I don't know if what I am looking at is real.  Here is a picture of my R6 2020 playing "Sunday Morning" by Maroon 5.  It's streaming from Tidal.   Click on picture and look at the upper right hand corner next to battery level.


That’s just the MQA 16x unfold on the R6 2020.


----------



## Whitigir

CANiSLAYu said:


> That’s just the MQA 16x unfold on the R6 2020.


That is what I thought, it is just simply MQA.  I don’t think studios would ever release 768Khz or even 384Khz


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Whitigir said:


> That is what I thought, it is just simply MQA.  I don’t think studios would ever release 768Khz or even 384Khz


Whatever it is, it sounds great.


----------



## Whitigir

Lol, I just came across this picture from Cayin website 
Can you spot what is going on ? 0_0


----------



## Jeffyue

Whitigir said:


> Lol, I just came across this picture from Cayin website
> Can you spot what is going on ? 0_0


x1 or x2?


----------



## cheznous

RTodd said:


> Same question for both of you what HP/IEM are you using? I am on the fence. Wondering if you hear it that way regardless of type of drivers?


AKSP2000 and EE Odins. 
I mainly listen to Indie rock and Americana but not exclusively. 
I think AB has a little more clarity but it is all personal of course.


----------



## SMOoth Operator

@Whitigir is it better to set power amp at full volume and adjust overall gain from the DAP, or is it better to set the DAP at full volume and adjust overall volume from the amp? When I do the former, sometimes I get distortion/clipping, when I do the latter I get hiss. Just wondering from your perspective, or anyone else that wants to weigh in, what is ideal....??


----------



## DaYooper (May 2, 2021)

Why not just use the line out from source? I wouldn't use full volume on either to be honest.


----------



## Whitigir

SMOoth Operator said:


> @Whitigir is it better to set power amp at full volume and adjust overall gain from the DAP, or is it better to set the DAP at full volume and adjust overall volume from the amp? When I do the former, sometimes I get distortion/clipping, when I do the latter I get hiss. Just wondering from your perspective, or anyone else that wants to weigh in, what is ideal....??


It is easier to use The DAP volume at 80-95 or so.  Usually with digital attenuations, there is a premium range where you get maximized dynamic range  without clipping and distortions, that usually is %75-95 range


----------



## SMOoth Operator

DaYooper said:


> Why not just use the line out from source? I wouldn't use full volume on either to be honest.


Because 99% of the dap's on the market have no true line out. It is all double amping, despite what the DAP says in settings.


----------



## SMOoth Operator

Whitigir said:


> It is easier to use The DAP volume at 80-95 or so.  Usually with digital attenuations, there is a premium range where you get maximized dynamic range  without clipping and distortions, that usually is %75-95 range


Low gain, or high gain mode?


----------



## Whitigir

SMOoth Operator said:


> Low gain, or high gain mode?


That usually depends on the dap.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

After a week with the C9, I've figure out the best transportable set up for me.    My favorite pairing is R6 2020 + C9 because the sound is great, the usability features are near perfect (e.g. just need to hit the pause button to talk to my wife), it's easy to charge (one USB cable can buddy breath) and I can carry the whole set up to warm up my coffee or lay down on the sofa without having to unplug and turn off the music.   In addition, it fits really nicely into the IFI carrying case I recently purchased.    I will use my Hugo 2 in a permanent desktop set up at home.    I will use that when I EQ which is quite frequently.   On the topping rack, I'll have the Hugo 2 on the bottom, the C9 in the middle and the Hiby R6 2020 on top.   Just need to finish it off with cables and interconnects.


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> After a week with the C9, I've figure out the best transportable set up for me.    My favorite pairing is R6 2020 + C9 because the sound is great, the usability features are near perfect (e.g. just need to hit the pause button to talk to my wife), it's easy to charge (one USB cable can buddy breath) and I can carry the whole set up to warm up my coffee or lay down on the sofa without having to unplug and turn off the music.   In addition, it fits really nicely into the IFI carrying case I recently purchased.    I will use my Hugo 2 in a permanent desktop set up at home.    I will use that when I EQ which is quite frequently.   On the topping rack, I'll have the Hugo 2 on the bottom, the C9 in the middle and the Hiby R6 2020 on top.   Just need to finish it off with cables and interconnects.


The carrying solution looks really convenient! I should get one of that iFi case too.


----------



## SMOoth Operator

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> After a week with the C9, I've figure out the best transportable set up for me.    My favorite pairing is R6 2020 + C9 because the sound is great, the usability features are near perfect (e.g. just need to hit the pause button to talk to my wife), it's easy to charge (one USB cable can buddy breath) and I can carry the whole set up to warm up my coffee or lay down on the sofa without having to unplug and turn off the music.   In addition, it fits really nicely into the IFI carrying case I recently purchased.    I will use my Hugo 2 in a permanent desktop set up at home.    I will use that when I EQ which is quite frequently.   On the topping rack, I'll have the Hugo 2 on the bottom, the C9 in the middle and the Hiby R6 2020 on top.   Just need to finish it off with cables and interconnects.


I find that rather than using the pause function on the dap, you get better sound quality if you just install a "mute" button directly on the Wife Unit.....😁


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> The carrying solution looks really convenient! I should get one of that iFi case too.


Yeah, it's a great case.    You can even play it while in the case, but I do not intend to do that.


----------



## RTodd

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Yeah, it's a great case.    You can even play it while in the case, but I do not intend to do that.


With this solution if you are listening while C9 is in the case you would have to use the players volume control. If I did this than it would be the P6-PRO since in line out the volume control on the P6 still adjusts the volume.

Wonder about trapping heat and what would happen after a few hours.


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Yeah, it's a great case.    You can even play it while in the case, but I do not intend to do that.


Order placed.


----------



## fiascogarcia

SMOoth Operator said:


> I find that rather than using the pause function on the dap, you get better sound quality if you just install a "mute" button directly on the Wife Unit.....😁



My wife unit doesn't have a mute button;  just a volume up button!


----------



## bluestorm1992

RTodd said:


> With this solution if you are listening while C9 is in the case you would have to use the players volume control. If I did this than it would be the P6-PRO since in line out the volume control on the P6 still adjusts the volume.
> 
> Wonder about trapping heat and what would happen after a few hours.


Actually the Lotoo 6K can also adjust its LO volume by changing a setting.


----------



## RTodd

fiascogarcia said:


> My wife unit doesn't have a mute button;  just a volume up button!


My wife and I use sign language.


----------



## RTodd

bluestorm1992 said:


> Actually the Lotoo 6K can also adjust its LO volume by changing a setting.


Interesting does not surprise me their software is so well thought out. 

I like how you can flip the display so when sitting on top of the C9 you have access to the C9 switches and volume control and are not upside down on the player while doing that.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

RTodd said:


> With this solution if you are listening while C9 is in the case you would have to use the players volume control. If I did this than it would be the P6-PRO since in line out the volume control on the P6 still adjusts the volume.
> 
> Wonder about trapping heat and what would happen after a few hours.


The R6 2020 allows you to adjust the line out gain.  It defaults to 100%, but it can be adjusted.    I finally found the utility of having separate Line out and Phone out ports.   You don't have the accidental volume explosion when you forget to reduce the gain off of 100% when switching from line out to phone out.   It turns out this is a very important feature for me.    You can listen with the C9 in the case, but I am worried about too much heat build up and I'll just use standalone DAP for outside of the house and just use the IFI case for travelling only, not playback.


----------



## Nostoi

SMOoth Operator said:


> I find that rather than using the pause function on the dap, you get better sound quality if you just install a "mute" button directly on the Wife Unit.....😁


Can I get that firmware update please? Can you also include the option for reducing sibilance? 🙏🏼


----------



## Whitigir

SMOoth Operator said:


> I find that rather than using the pause function on the dap, you get better sound quality if you just install a "mute" button directly on the Wife Unit.....😁


Just “Bypass”


----------



## DaYooper

Whitigir said:


> Just “Bypass”


I am so blessed.


----------



## lucasratmundo

Tried using the SP2000 as a USB DAC with my PC while connected to the C9 in line-out mode. Kinda puzzling results. A few things that I noticed:

When I connect the SP2000 and C9 with the stock 3.5mm IC, I hear a _very _subtle humming, barely noticeable.
When I connect the SP2000 and C9 with the stock 4.4mm IC (with ddHifi's DJ44K), the humming starts OK but then it would get much louder if I touched the volume control in the SP2000 or the cable jack. The C9 occasionally enter battery protection mode.
Connecting the IEM directly in the SP2000 while in DAC mode has no humming at all.
I tried using different line-out voltages in the SP2000 and a different IC+adapter but they don't seem to make a difference. Is the fact that the 3.5mm IC is grounded the main difference here? Is this not a supported case by the C9?


----------



## bluestorm1992

lucasratmundo said:


> Tried using the SP2000 as a USB DAC with my PC while connected to the C9 in line-out mode. Kinda puzzling results. A few things that I noticed:
> 
> When I connect the SP2000 and C9 with the stock 3.5mm IC, I hear a _very _subtle humming, barely noticeable.
> When I connect the SP2000 and C9 with the stock 4.4mm IC (with ddHifi's DJ44K), the humming starts OK but then it would get much louder if I touched the volume control in the SP2000 or the cable jack. The C9 occasionally enter battery protection mode.
> ...


What is your gain in C9? You will hear a louder noise with high gain, especially when using IEMs.


----------



## DaYooper

lucasratmundo said:


> Tried using the SP2000 as a USB DAC with my PC while connected to the C9 in line-out mode. Kinda puzzling results. A few things that I noticed:
> 
> When I connect the SP2000 and C9 with the stock 3.5mm IC, I hear a _very _subtle humming, barely noticeable.
> When I connect the SP2000 and C9 with the stock 4.4mm IC (with ddHifi's DJ44K), the humming starts OK but then it would get much louder if I touched the volume control in the SP2000 or the cable jack. The C9 occasionally enter battery protection mode.
> ...


It would be my guess that having it connected to your computer through the SP2K is the source of the problem.


----------



## lucasratmundo

bluestorm1992 said:


> What is your gain in C9? You will hear a louder noise with high gain, especially when using IEMs.


Low gain on C9. The humming is even louder in high gain.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (May 2, 2021)

lucasratmundo said:


> Tried using the SP2000 as a USB DAC with my PC while connected to the C9 in line-out mode. Kinda puzzling results. A few things that I noticed:
> 
> When I connect the SP2000 and C9 with the stock 3.5mm IC, I hear a _very _subtle humming, barely noticeable.
> When I connect the SP2000 and C9 with the stock 4.4mm IC (with ddHifi's DJ44K), the humming starts OK but then it would get much louder if I touched the volume control in the SP2000 or the cable jack. The C9 occasionally enter battery protection mode.
> ...


I guess your PC/laptop is charging? In this case, by touching C9’s metal frame, you create a closed loop and make C9 to enter into the production mode.

I suspect you hear humming  because of this potential shorting behavior. If you are using a laptop, try unplug it from the charger and see if this helps.


----------



## lucasratmundo

bluestorm1992 said:


> I guess your PC/laptop is charging? In this case, by touching C9’s metal frame, you create a closed loop and make C9 to enter into the production mode.
> 
> I suspect you hear humming  because of this potential shorting behavior. If you are using a laptop, try unplug it from the charger and see if this helps.


Yeah, I'm connecting the SP2000 to a traditional desktop PC so it's definitely plugged in. I was hopping that the SP2000's USB DAC mode wouldn't behave as a "charging" scenario and would work fine with the C9. It seems I was wrong.


----------



## bluestorm1992

lucasratmundo said:


> Yeah, I'm connecting the SP2000 to a traditional desktop PC so it's definitely plugged in. I was hopping that the SP2000's USB DAC mode wouldn't behave as a "charging" scenario and would work fine with the C9. It seems I was wrong.


Yeah I think it still charge SP2000. Interestingly, I have used the W2 dongle as the dac to pair with C9. Because it is only a small dongle rather than a player, it does not run into this problem.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

lucasratmundo said:


> Tried using the SP2000 as a USB DAC with my PC while connected to the C9 in line-out mode. Kinda puzzling results. A few things that I noticed:
> 
> When I connect the SP2000 and C9 with the stock 3.5mm IC, I hear a _very _subtle humming, barely noticeable.
> When I connect the SP2000 and C9 with the stock 4.4mm IC (with ddHifi's DJ44K), the humming starts OK but then it would get much louder if I touched the volume control in the SP2000 or the cable jack. The C9 occasionally enter battery protection mode.
> ...


Your post inspired me to test the USB-DAC capabilities of my R6 2020.    There is no documentation for the R6 2020, so I had to go through a discovery process to get it to work.    There is no additional driver required for Windows 10, but there is an option that you need to set.   The default it to not allow data transfer.   Once I configured the R6 correctly, I was able to set up the R6 2020 as a headphone on my laptop through the Peace software and Equalizer APO so that I can add EQ whenever needed.     I probably will not do this very much because there is a noticeable drop off in sound quality due to the USB interface.   This was before I even applied any EQ.   The good news is that it's possible and works.   The bad news is that is sounds worse than direct streaming from the R6.


----------



## cheznous

Not really a C9 issue but someone may have an answer. I noticed with some adapter/cables between my AK2000 and the C9 when playing dsf files no sound is heard. AK to headphones work fine and other adapters to C9 work fine. 
Why on earth would this be the case?


----------



## jwbrent

RTodd said:


> Love the design of this one. Hope you do, want to know what it is like.



My understanding is it’s a warmer A8000. I don’t know if this means its notable transparency has been impacted, hopefully not. Andrew told me he got 10 sets in.


----------



## iFi audio

Whitigir said:


>



Are those... radiators?


----------



## jmills8

iFi audio said:


> Are those... radiators?


Celine Dion music makes amps over work.


----------



## ian91

jmills8 said:


> Celine Dion music makes amps over work.



Her heart will not go on without those thermal fins...


----------



## jmills8

ian91 said:


> Her heart will not go on without those thermal fins...


----------



## ian91

lucasratmundo said:


> Yeah, I'm connecting the SP2000 to a traditional desktop PC so it's definitely plugged in. I was hopping that the SP2000's USB DAC mode wouldn't behave as a "charging" scenario and would work fine with the C9. It seems I was wrong.



Check out the linked post from the first page 'Charging and Protection Circuit'. I'm not sure if this is related to the problem you've encountered but theres certainly some points to be aware of for future. 
Apologies if you've already seen the post.


----------



## Nostoi

Just got the FW1K for the C9. Like what I hear so far, though keen to see how they open up with burn in and a cable change. Right now, they sound impressive with an excellent timbre, though slightly restrained. 

Would ideally like to compare with IER-Z1R and EAH-TZ700....


----------



## iFi audio

jmills8 said:


> Celine Dion music makes amps over work.


I can understand that


----------



## ian91

Andykong said:


> Work in progress by a friend (i.e., not Cayin), Early prototype stage only, so please stay tune.



Is work progressing on this front? @Andykong


----------



## xand

lucasratmundo said:


> Tried using the SP2000 as a USB DAC with my PC while connected to the C9 in line-out mode. Kinda puzzling results. A few things that I noticed:
> 
> When I connect the SP2000 and C9 with the stock 3.5mm IC, I hear a _very _subtle humming, barely noticeable.
> When I connect the SP2000 and C9 with the stock 4.4mm IC (with ddHifi's DJ44K), the humming starts OK but then it would get much louder if I touched the volume control in the SP2000 or the cable jack. The C9 occasionally enter battery protection mode.
> ...



I don'treally understand the issue.. You're not charging the C9 right?

I don't have any issues charging my DX300 while its connected to the C9 (C9 is only connected to headphones and line in.. Not charging), which is identical to the scenario above?

I can hear the charging happening I guess..


HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Your post inspired me to test the USB-DAC capabilities of my R6 2020.    There is no documentation for the R6 2020, so I had to go through a discovery process to get it to work.    There is no additional driver required for Windows 10, but there is an option that you need to set.   The default it to not allow data transfer.   Once I configured the R6 correctly, I was able to set up the R6 2020 as a headphone on my laptop through the Peace software and Equalizer APO so that I can add EQ whenever needed.     I probably will not do this very much because there is a noticeable drop off in sound quality due to the USB interface.   This was before I even applied any EQ.   The good news is that it's possible and works.   The bad news is that is sounds worse than direct streaming from the R6.



I have tested the dx300 usb dac capability, it's a similar result - quality much worse than native stream. Choice between great sound and small (large for a portable but my pc has a 40") screen, or great screen and kinda meh sound (my computer speakers are.. Computer speakers).


----------



## bluestorm1992

xand said:


> I don'treally understand the issue.. You're not charging the C9 right?
> 
> I don't have any issues charging my DX300 while its connected to the C9 (C9 is only connected to headphones and line in.. Not charging), which is identical to the scenario above?
> 
> ...


Yeah I very often charge my SP2000 and N6ii while using C9 (C9 is not charging) and have no issue at all so far. Not sure if the USB DAC mode itself is doing something here.


----------



## RTodd (May 3, 2021)

Traveling for the first time with C9, 
this is going to be fun.


----------



## zen87192

RTodd said:


> Traveling for the first time with C9,
> this is going to be fun.


Beautiful Rangefinder! I'm using the M6 (Panda) Your sights as well as sounds are sorted! 📷 🎧


----------



## ThanatosVI

I'm don't know anything about portable devices yet, is this the best portable Tube amp currently on the market?
What competition is there?
Are there comparable tube daps?

Those Nutube 6p1 have only one Type, right?
So no tube Rolling here


----------



## RTodd

zen87192 said:


> Beautiful Rangefinder! I'm using the M6 (Panda) Your sights as well as sounds are sorted! 📷 🎧


M240, had to trim down on lenses to fit the C9.


----------



## RTodd

ThanatosVI said:


> I'm don't know anything about portable devices yet, is this the best portable Tube amp currently on the market?
> What competition is there?
> Are there comparable tube daps?
> 
> ...


No tube rolling on C9. Not a traditional Tube, Korg used a vacuum display design, special mount.
Woo Audio has a potable, I never heard it but think you can roll tubes.
There are at least two other lower cost options as well, that I never heard.
Let someone else who has speak to those options.


----------



## ThanatosVI

RTodd said:


> No tube rolling on C9. Not a traditional Tube, Korg used a vacuum display design, special mount.
> Woo Audio has a potable, I never heard it but think you can roll tubes.
> There are at least two other lower cost options as well, that I never heard.
> Let someone else who has speak to those options.


No tube Rolling is not necessarily a Bad thing. 
Curious about those other options.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (May 3, 2021)

ThanatosVI said:


> No tube Rolling is not necessarily a Bad thing.
> Curious about those other options.


Woo Audio WA8 (a portable tube amp)
Romi Audio BX2 (a portable SS amp).


----------



## ThanatosVI

bluestorm1992 said:


> Woo Audio WA8 (a portable tube amp)
> Romi Audio BX2 (a portable SS amp).


Thx, Can you also tell me how these compare? (in case you know)


----------



## bluestorm1992

ThanatosVI said:


> Thx, Can you also tell me how these compare? (in case you know)


Actually I have never tried either of them. If you search within this thread, you will find quite some comparison impressions.


----------



## fuhransahis

ThanatosVI said:


> Thx, Can you also tell me how these compare? (in case you know)



Phatlab Chimera and Phatlab Phantasy II are competitors as well.

Not many impressions in the US outside of the Sassy (latter's predecessor) and Chimera, but the Chimera has both a solid state and tube SET mode, and single-ended and 4.4mm output as well.

I own the Phatlab Sassy GT which is not far off from the C9 but it doesn't have the same versatility.


----------



## ThanatosVI

fuhransahis said:


> Phatlab Chimera and Phatlab Phantasy II are competitors as well.
> 
> Not many impressions in the US outside of the Sassy (latter's predecessor) and Chimera, but the Chimera has both a solid state and tube SET mode, and single-ended and 4.4mm output as well.
> 
> I own the Phatlab Sassy GT which is not far off from the C9 but it doesn't have the same versatility.


Thank you I will take a look


----------



## ThanatosVI

bluestorm1992 said:


> Actually I have never tried either of them. If you search within this thread, you will find quite some comparison impressions.


Thanks I will search the thread


----------



## szore

ian91 said:


> I am currently trying very hard not to sell of my headphones/desktop amp and go all in with a C9 and live the portable/IEM life.


Personally I cant stand how headphones feel on my head, I only play with IEMs...


----------



## RTodd

bluestorm1992 said:


> Woo Audio WA8 (a portable tube amp)
> Romi Audio BX2 (a portable SS amp).


Wasn’t there something like Little Bear?


----------



## bluestorm1992

RTodd said:


> Wasn’t there something like Little Bear?


I didn’t know about that.


----------



## RTodd

Not too shabby.


----------



## SMOoth Operator

bluestorm1992 said:


> Woo Audio WA8 (a portable tube amp)
> Romi Audio BX2 (a portable SS amp).


Phatlab Chimera


----------



## RTodd

bluestorm1992 said:


> I didn’t know about that.


Real cheap, probably not to great.
On Amazon.

Brand: Little Bear
4.1 out of 5 stars 188Reviews

Little Bear B4-X Portable Dual-Mono Vacuum Tube Headphone Amplifier; Mini Balanced Audio Headphone Amp B4 Upgrade​


----------



## Whitigir

RTodd said:


> Real cheap, probably not to great.
> On Amazon.
> 
> Brand: Little Bear
> ...


The B4 isn’t a real balanced Amp.  The socket is a pseudo Balanced.  The 2.5mm actually has a shared Ground to L- and R-.


----------



## RTodd

Whitigir said:


> The B4 isn’t a real balanced Amp.  The socket is a pseudo Balanced.  The 2.5mm actually has a shared Ground to L- and R-.


Looked like junk to me, Z did a YouTube review a while back.


----------



## SMOoth Operator

Anybody who can get their hands on a Phatlab Chimera, I would be interested in hearing your opinions and comparison to the C9?


----------



## bluestorm1992

SMOoth Operator said:


> Anybody who can get their hands on a Phatlab Chimera, I would be interested in hearing your opinions and comparison to the C9?


I think @Kiats has it, and the general impression is (please correct me if I am wrong) the Chimera is more on the "tube-ish" side while C9 is on the analytical side.


----------



## SMOoth Operator

bluestorm1992 said:


> I think @Kiats has it, and the general impression is (please correct me if I am wrong) the Chimera is more on the "tube-ish" side while C9 is on the analytical side.


Well im a Tubehead, so this sounds promising! Tubes are FTW!!


----------



## Whitigir

SMOoth Operator said:


> Well im a Tubehead, so this sounds promising! Tubes are FTW!!


M30 from shanling also is very tube like


----------



## SMOoth Operator

Whitigir said:


> M30 from shanling also is very tube like


Very interested, but I prefer to stay more with the mobile setups. M30 seems more like a small desk rig to me, no.....?


----------



## twister6

SMOoth Operator said:


> Very interested, but I prefer to stay more with the mobile setups. M30 seems more like a small desk rig to me, no.....?



over 6 lbs in weight, but then people turn dmp-z1 5.5 lbs into transportable so I guess there is no limit to what some consider as mobile setup


----------



## Whitigir

twister6 said:


> over 6 lbs in weight, but then people turn dmp-z1 5.5 lbs into transportable so I guess there is no limit to what some consider as mobile setup


That is true to me


----------



## Zambu (May 4, 2021)

ThanatosVI said:


> I'm don't know anything about portable devices yet, is this the best portable Tube amp currently on the market?
> What competition is there?
> Are there comparable tube daps?
> 
> ...



There are some very relevant factors (aside from sound quality of course) like actual portability and your budget. Something like OriolusBA300S is pretty nice for learning if you enjoy "portable tubes" as it's very light and on the more inexpensive side (<400$), balanced 4.4mm and fits smaller DAPs in terms of size (somewhat underpowered though). Then again, Cayin N3Pro is similar in sound yet it's an all-in-one DAP so it's very handy for doing some actually portable listening. Because I think something like Woo WA8 is pretty much a transportable/desktop thing, C9 is kind of borderline but more towards transportable, and those Phatlab options kind of similar I suppose.
And one more option is to look for Cayin N8 which is TOTL stand-alone DAP with tubes (it's not new, so you could look for used ones if interested).


----------



## ThanatosVI

Zambu said:


> There are some very relevant factors (aside from sound quality of course) like actual portability and your budget. Something like OriolusBA300S is pretty nice for learning if you enjoy "portable tubes" as it's very light and on the more inexpensive side (<400$), balanced 4.4mm and fits smaller DAPs in terms of size (somewhat underpowered though). Then again, Cayin N3Pro is similar in sound yet it's an all-in-one DAP so it's very handy for doing some actually portable listening. Because I think something like Woo WA8 is pretty much a transportable/desktop thing, C9 is kind of borderline but more towards transportable, and those Phatlab options kind of similar I suppose.
> And one more option is to look for Cayin N8 which is TOTL stand-alone DAP with tubes (it's not new, so you could look for used ones if interested).


Thanks for the input.
How would the N8 compare to the N6ii + C9 combo ?


----------



## Zambu

ThanatosVI said:


> Thanks for the input.
> How would the N8 compare to the N6ii + C9 combo ?


Oh I've never tried those. But just check this (particularly pages 4 and 5 have such comparisons)
https://twister6.com/2021/02/26/cayin-c9/


----------



## Craftsman1511

My C9 is finally on the way! I'm sure it's been discussed widely by now, but does anyone hear a significant discernable difference with upgrading the interconnects? Im a fan of IEM cables sure, but im not too sure of interconnects.


----------



## cheznous

Craftsman1511 said:


> My C9 is finally on the way! I'm sure it's been discussed widely by now, but does anyone hear a significant discernable difference with upgrading the interconnects? Im a fan of IEM cables sure, but im not too sure of interconnects.


Well for speaker cables maybe impedance makes a difference but for source to C9 then I would say no. The cables you get are just fine assuming you do not need an adapter. 
Others may disagree of course and your money your choice.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Craftsman1511 said:


> My C9 is finally on the way! I'm sure it's been discussed widely by now, but does anyone hear a significant discernable difference with upgrading the interconnects? Im a fan of IEM cables sure, but im not too sure of interconnects.


As usual I'd say cables are the finishing touch. 
So depending on what your source is, you could get a bigger improvement investing into that.

If your source is already top notch, then go for the Interconnect.


----------



## Kiats

bluestorm1992 said:


> I think @Kiats has it, and the general impression is (please correct me if I am wrong) the Chimera is more on the "tube-ish" side while C9 is on the analytical side.



Sorry chaps. Been a crazy day. Yes. guilty as charged. Yes, the Chimera is a more traditional tube amp. Or rather it’s a hybrid because it also has a FET side, but still relatively on the sweet luscious side. Not at all analytical amp. Other thing i love about it is I can use my mobile or iPad with it since it has a inbuilt DAC too.


----------



## Kiats

SMOoth Operator said:


> Well im a Tubehead, so this sounds promising! Tubes are FTW!








 There you go...


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (May 4, 2021)

Now that I showed you my case for the C9 and R6 2020, I just found the perfect case for my IEMs.   There are 3 slots left.   One is for my Custom Legend X.    2 slots left.    Everthing else fits into my backpack that I carry on the plane for travel.    Cables, amps and IEMs.   Even a pocket router.


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Now that I showed you my case for the C9 and R6 2020, I just found the perfect case for my IEMs.   There are 3 slots left.   One is for my Custom Legend X.    2 slots left.    Everthing else fits into my backpack that I carry on the plane for travel.    Cables, amps and IEMs.   Even a pocket router.


Organizing master.


----------



## lucasratmundo

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Now that I showed you my case for the C9 and R6 2020, I just found the perfect case for my IEMs.   There are 3 slots left.   One is for my Custom Legend X.    2 slots left.    Everthing else fits into my backpack that I carry on the plane for travel.    Cables, amps and IEMs.   Even a pocket router.



This is awesome!


----------



## SMOoth Operator

Kiats said:


> Sorry chaps. Been a crazy day. Yes. guilty as charged. Yes, the Chimera is a more traditional tube amp. Or rather it’s a hybrid because it also has a FET side, but still relatively on the sweet luscious side. Not at all analytical amp. Other thing i love about it is I can use my mobile or iPad with it since it has a inbuilt DAC too.


What country are you in? Any idea where to get them in the USA?


----------



## SMOoth Operator (May 4, 2021)

Craftsman1511 said:


> My C9 is finally on the way! I'm sure it's been discussed widely by now, but does anyone hear a significant discernable difference with upgrading the interconnects? Im a fan of IEM cables sure, but im not too sure of interconnects.


The cables that Cayin provides are of very good quality IMO. Getting a custom one made to the same quality would cost you about $100. As far as cables go, about the $100-200 dollar range is the sweetspot for IEM and interconnect cables. That will get you quality components, with careful soldering jobs. I know allot of people will scoff at me, but I was an Aerospace Electrician for the Air Force for 20 years and worked in the Pro Audio Department of Guitar Center for 5 years. With that being said, getting a more expensive cable than that will NOT improve the sound to an audible degree IMO. Expensive cables are a combination of OCD and placebo effect, all psychological IMO. Now with that being said, THERE IS a difference in sound between materials, copper will have a slight different sound than silver and gold. Gold just happens to be expensive, so in that case yes it will cost you more, but we are talking about different sound signatures, not one is better than the other. I like the sound of copper and gold, but hate silver. Since I believe +$300 for a cable that short is mental, I just stick with copper and it sounds great to me. However, if you have a $100 copper cable and compare it to a $1,000 copper cable of the same length and claim to hear a difference, I believe it is just psychological and not based in reality. Some people just like the bling and the placebo effect justifies their purchase for them. I have used many different cables and cenerios to record musicians, so have spent quite a bit of time in comparison of all kinds of components.


----------



## bluestorm1992

SMOoth Operator said:


> The cables that Cayin provides are of very good quality IMO. Getting a custom one made to the same quality would cost you about $100. As far as cables go, about the $100-200 dollar range is the sweetspot for IEM and interconnect cables. That will get you quality components, with careful soldering jobs. I know allot of people will scoff at me, but I was an Aerospace Electrician for the Air Force for 20 years and worked in the Pro Audio Department of Guitar Center for 5 years. With that being said, getting a more expensive cable than that will NOT improve the sound to an audible degree IMO. Expensive cables are a combination of OCD and placebo effect, all psychological IMO. Now with that being said, THERE IS a difference in sound between materials, copper will have a slight different sound than silver and gold. Gold just happens to be expensive, so in that case yes it will cost you more, but we are talking about different sound signatures, not one is better than the other. I like the sound of copper and gold, but hate silver. Since I believe +$300 for a cable that short is mental, I just stick with copper and it sounds great to me. However, if you have a $100 copper cable and compare it to a $1,000 copper cable of the same length and claim to hear a difference, I believe it is just psychological and not based in reality. Some people just like the bling and the placebo effect justifies their purchase for them. I have used many different cables and cenerios to record musicians, so have spent quite a bit of time in comparison of all kinds of components.


I quite agree with you. I buy cables for two things: (1) material, which to me (slightly) alters the sound signature; (2) how the cable looks. I will not buy an ugly-looking cable. If it helps to deliver a sound signature that I like, then that is a bonus to me.

With this being said, I buy an extra IC for C9 because it looks pretty. It does change the sound signature but the magnitude is even less so than IEM cables.


----------



## Whitigir (May 4, 2021)

Oh well, the more expensive a cables is, that is due to the more expensive the materials are.  It used to be that the hi-fi metallurgy makers were far and a few.  Just 5 years ago, you would hardly be able to find Hi-Fi cables for DIY.  Now, it seems that these makers are not stopping in their motions to keep innovating.  While there are cheaper and lower end makers that also coming from China, are copying and mimicking the real hi-end stuff, however, the real and authentic makers would also poured/invested a great deal of resources into producing the newer and ground breaking materials.

For example, for a while, many DIY enthusiasts would take that Solid Core is very high performances wires and should be everywhere.  Then one of the China maker (high quality Hi-end) have discovered that using Litz constructions, the more counts of the strands, the better the sound is.  Amazingly, this discover have contradicted the skin-effects of the general high powered electricity conduction.  But in practicality, for people to listen to it and judge it, it really did perform better.  Even Neotech would follow suits and have started producing similar.

Anyways, not to let carried away, my points is that, these materials are expensive to research, and even more to produce in newer technology.  So these high-end makers have already been opened up toward DIY suppliers, and this is the reason why you will keep seeing “new brands popping out everywhere”.  Comes with that is a reduction in price, because the more competitions.

Now, at this point, you can’t really get too much better than the like of Fiio, and or Cayin, Dunu cables, unless you spend multiple folds....and even so, could you tell the differences ?  I would disagree that statements about ”you can’t get better than Cayin stock IC”, because in reality “You can, but not for 100-200 more”, period.... 2x furutech 4.4mm with shipping is already setting you back at $120-150 for materials alone as an example


----------



## SMOoth Operator

Whitigir said:


> Oh well, the more expensive a cables is, that is due to the more expensive the materials are.  It used to be that the hi-fi metallurgy makers were far and a few.  Just 5 years ago, you would hardly be able to find Hi-Fi cables for DIY.  Now, it seems that these makers are not stopping in their motions to keep innovating.  While there are cheaper and lower end makers that also coming from China, are copying and mimicking the real hi-end stuff, however, the real and authentic makers would also poured/invested a great deal of resources into producing the newer and ground breaking materials.
> 
> For example, for a while, many DIY enthusiasts would take that Solid Core is very high performances wires and should be everywhere.  Then one of the China maker (high quality Hi-end) have discovered that using Litz constructions, the more counts of the strands, the better the sound is.  Amazingly, this discover have contradicted the skin-effects of the general high powered electricity conduction.  But in practicality, for people to listen to it and judge it, it really did perform better.  Even Neotech would follow suits and have started producing similar.
> 
> ...


I agree with you on allot of things Whitigir, but not when it comes to justifying outrageously expensive cables.

 I have been having this same expensive cable debate since my days working at Guitar Center in the Studio and the pro expensive argument usually ends up becoming absurd. I definitely agree there is such thing as garbage cables, especially under $50, but once you are in the $100-200 range the diminishing returns far outweigh any incrimental benefits in sound.... There is only so far OCC copper can be improved, as well as silver and gold. It is an element that can only be purified, but it can only be purified so far. There are only a handful of ways the wire can be extruded. There are only so many ways you can coat copper with gold or silver. There is no real "technology" behind it.... The technology reached its zenith in the 1980's..... Since then the US Airforce has done multiple studies on multi use wires, to include high altitude temperature effect and electromagnetic radiation from the sun. They found little to no difference between expensive manufactuers vs moderately priced wire. They even found that upon inspection both the high dollar wire and low dollar wire was being sourced from the same handful of oversease factories using the exact same extrusion methods for both, only difference was the purity of the billets. So the Air Force uses the moderate to cheap electrical wire on even the most expensive airplanes and drones.

There is a point in the Audiophile world where we are teetering on the fine line of absurdity, especially regarding high dollar cables. When you are squeezing 1%, to 0.1%, to 0.0000001% for $500, $1,000 to $5,000 dollar cables. That money could be much better served when put towards better headphones, better DAP's, better Amp's or even more important components like nicer capacitors.

I know there are certain camps of people who deny sound difference for many things, I am not one of those skeptical people. I do not believe just because I cannot hear something that someone else cant either, I think that mind frame is very narrow minded. However, when we are talking about high dollar cables, the difference in sound is so microscopic and miniscule that the absurd prices just become an unhealthy obsession similar to gambling. 

There are much better things in the audio chain to put that extra money into and cables is at the very bottom of that priority chain IMO. 

Now once we start getting futuristic and talking about the pros of using "Super Conductors" for cables, maybe then ill get on board, when there is an actual significant measurable improvement in performance.

The reason cables cost so much in the HiFi community, is simply because there are people gullible enough to fall for clever marketing. I remember the day about 15 years ago that I tracked down the price of a driver on a "Bose Surround System". They were sourcing drivers from China for $0.10 a piece, then turning around and selling them in a plastic housing for hundreds of dollars a piece. The cable scenario is identical, in that it is a very clever marketing scheme.

What's more off putting is that it emboldens wire makers to charge ever increasing prices, for unmeasurable gains and god forbid for the exact same wire that everybody sources from China. It is a form of product inflation that has taken off at absurd rate in the Audiophile community. In other words, they charge the prices, because people are just plain foolish enough to pay them.

So at what point does it become unreasonable for price vs measurable improvement? Where does someone consciously draw the line? I would say for a 3ft long cable or shorter, anything over $200...

But then there are some people who are just so filthy rich that they have to have the best of everything, but that does not mean the money they spent does what the maker claims. Clever marketing can make you psychologically believe anything, if it capitalizes on human psychological weakness well enough.

But hey, if you are that rich and you just want to have it all, I am not hating on you.  But I do have some Machina Dynamica Brilliant Pebbles I would like to sell you. 

http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm


----------



## Whitigir

Diminishing returns will happen in every corner of this universe.  But it doesn’t mean that you can not break over the barrier.  You can get better than Cayin stock Interconnect, so let me just spell out the materials.

Cayin interconnect is OCC (claimed), in a sense, it is copper (whatever ways they made it...copper get extruded, and silver are grown...etc...). Anyways, copper is less conductive than Silver.  So, let’s just say, if you go for OCC-Silver cables, technically you are having a better cables, and even better if it is Litz type.  Then the plugs on Cayin is Brass base metal with gold plating, now, if you are going for Furutech which utilizes a more expensive Brass Alloy, cryogenically treated, and Rhodium plated, it is going to conduct better, and is technically more expensive.  So, take this for an example, 2x Furutech is going to cost your $130 average, the supplies for soldering, the required skills, and the acquisition of Ultra Pure Silver crystal cables (furthermore with authentic brands).  You are looking for more than $200, and that is DIY.

So, if you are looking for an already purchased, made, a finished products that can out perform Cayin interconnect for $100-200 ? That is likely not going to happen, unless you DIY.  I speak from DIY experiences, and while I don’t have golden ears, or a way to measure these atomic movements, or electron cloud behaviors, I can tell you that coming from my experiences, diminishing return is a real thing, and it is a BICH in all industry, and every corners of the universe.  Apparently, all the mass products for sciences, experiments are bound by financial means, so they have to stop at the equilibrium of (performance : pricing ratios).  *But once you are not bound by the equilibrium, even the moon landing back in the 50th where the majority of the technology were based on Vacuum Tubes would be “Possible”, and that many decades later, many people would find it hard to believe *

Anyways @SMOoth Operator , I will agree to disagree.  I will say what I keep saying, I am happy that you found your happy mediums.  Many people, even not rich, are not happy, and such is a plague in this hobby.  Enjoy your music and the C9.


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## SMOoth Operator (May 4, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> Diminishing returns will happen in every corner of this universe.  But it doesn’t mean that you can not break over the barrier.  You can get better than Cayin stock Interconnect, so let me just spell out the materials.
> 
> Cayin interconnect is OCC (claimed), in a sense, it is copper (whatever ways they made it...copper get extruded, and silver are grown...etc...). Anyways, copper is less conductive than Silver.  So, let’s just say, if you go for OCC-Silver cables, technically you are having a better cables, and even better if it is Litz type.  Then the plugs on Cayin is Brass base metal with gold plating, now, if you are going for Furutech which utilizes a more expensive Brass Alloy, cryogenically treated, and Rhodium plated, it is going to conduct better, and is technically more expensive.  So, take this for an example, 2x Furutech is going to cost your $130 average, the supplies for soldering, the required skills, and the acquisition of Ultra Pure Silver crystal cables (furthermore with authentic brands).  You are looking for more than $200, and that is DIY.
> 
> ...


Im just saying, that I think the HIFi cable makers are extorting their customers in general and that money could be better spent elsewhere in the audio chain. I do not have the same kind of trust in manufacturing costs, and find most marketing to be shady business in general.

I am not arguing that "better" cannot be done. Im just saying in this particular area of the audio chain, is it really worthwhile to put that much money into that component, with such small gains...?

I love all those old tubes BTW, Id take old 1950's tubes over modern transisisters any day of the week. I guess im old school like that, newer technology does not sound better to me in that area.

Anyways, im not going to keep spamming the thread about it, I added my 2 cents for all its worth. I do respect your opinion on allot of subject and I was just poking fun at you with the Brilliant Pebbles. Unless you already own Brilliant Pebbles, then we need to see about getting you help... Friends dont let friends buy Brilliant Pebbles.


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## Whitigir

well, to be honest, many vinyl records by 50-60th in A-A-A are still a master piece , and so are those tubes 

If Cayin could make something like the C9, but instead of Korg tubes, allow you to have real classic tubes, where you may be able to roll tubes.  Man! That would also be a killer


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## SMOoth Operator

Whitigir said:


> well, to be honest, many vinyl records by 50-60th in A-A-A are still a master piece , and so are those tubes
> 
> If Cayin could make something like the C9, but instead of Korg tubes, allow you to have real classic tubes, where you may be able to roll tubes.  Man! That would also be a killer


Yeh, I really love the C9 though. I have not listened to my Continental Duel Mono's since I got the C9 in. I have 3 CDM's and was even considering selling one, but I need to do more comparisons first. Each one of my CDM's has a different pair of tubes rolling in it, so trying to figure which flavor to give up. I am also really curious about the Phatlab Chimara, wondering if the tube can be rolled easily.....


----------



## bluestorm1992

SMOoth Operator said:


> Yeh, I really love the C9 though. I have not listened to my Continental Duel Mono's since I got the C9 in. I have 3 CDM's and was even considering selling one, but I need to do more comparisons first. Each one of my CDM's has a different pair of tubes rolling in it, so trying to figure which flavor to give up. I am also really curious about the Phatlab Chimara, wondering if the tube can be rolled easily.....


It doesn’t look like you can easily roll the tubes in Chimara. However, it is not a super expensive device anyway so maybe worth a shot.


----------



## Marat Sar

Man, had to send my c9 back for a spot of warranty/repairs (the seller will send a replacement unit asap, thank god!) and I'm stuck listening to my sp2000 without the c9. And oooooh buy is it boring compared to the C9 in the chain. The shrunken soundstage feels so ordinary. No tube hue, everything's so cold. The organization of elements into the soundstage is boring too. None of the grandiosity of the c9 where some sounds appear to come from an entirely different room. No -- everything's in this one box. 

The c9 has totally ruined single unit DAPs for me. Can't wait til I get it back. 

In positive news, I got the Oriolus Trailli. The decisive factor was someone on this thread saying the soundstge with c9 and trailli is "almost too large." F yeah! That's what I've been looking for. A soundstage that's TOO LARGE. That's me.


----------



## SMOoth Operator

Marat Sar said:


> Man, had to send my c9 back for a spot of warranty/repairs (the seller will send a replacement unit asap, thank god!) and I'm stuck listening to my sp2000 without the c9. And oooooh buy is it boring compared to the C9 in the chain. The shrunken soundstage feels so ordinary. No tube hue, everything's so cold. The organization of elements into the soundstage is boring too. None of the grandiosity of the c9 where some sounds appear to come from an entirely different room. No -- everything's in this one box.
> 
> The c9 has totally ruined single unit DAPs for me. Can't wait til I get it back.
> 
> In positive news, I got the Oriolus Trailli. The decisive factor was someone on this thread saying the soundstge with c9 and trailli is "almost too large." F yeah! That's what I've been looking for. A soundstage that's TOO LARGE. That's me.


I have been running tube amps on all my dap's from the begining. Once you get a taste for that Sweet Tube Mojo, there is no going back, it is like Audio Porn.


----------



## jmills8

Marat Sar said:


> Man, had to send my c9 back for a spot of warranty/repairs (the seller will send a replacement unit asap, thank god!) and I'm stuck listening to my sp2000 without the c9. And oooooh buy is it boring compared to the C9 in the chain. The shrunken soundstage feels so ordinary. No tube hue, everything's so cold. The organization of elements into the soundstage is boring too. None of the grandiosity of the c9 where some sounds appear to come from an entirely different room. No -- everything's in this one box.
> 
> The c9 has totally ruined single unit DAPs for me. Can't wait til I get it back.
> 
> In positive news, I got the Oriolus Trailli. The decisive factor was someone on this thread saying the soundstge with c9 and trailli is "almost too large." F yeah! That's what I've been looking for. A soundstage that's TOO LARGE. That's me.


Sp2000 is way overrated.


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## aaf evo

Marat Sar said:


> Man, had to send my c9 back for a spot of warranty/repairs (the seller will send a replacement unit asap, thank god!) and I'm stuck listening to my sp2000 without the c9. And oooooh buy is it boring compared to the C9 in the chain. The shrunken soundstage feels so ordinary. No tube hue, everything's so cold. The organization of elements into the soundstage is boring too. None of the grandiosity of the c9 where some sounds appear to come from an entirely different room. No -- everything's in this one box.
> 
> The c9 has totally ruined single unit DAPs for me. Can't wait til I get it back.
> 
> In positive news, I got the Oriolus Trailli. The decisive factor was someone on this thread saying the soundstge with c9 and trailli is "almost too large." F yeah! That's what I've been looking for. A soundstage that's TOO LARGE. That's me.



Heh, I think that was me who said it. C9 Traillii is great though.


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## SMOoth Operator

jmills8 said:


> Sp2000 is way overrated.


Agreed! Astell & Kern is way overrated in general...... Glad I found Shanling and finally stopped drinking the A&K KoolAid....


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## Kiats

SMOoth Operator said:


> What country are you in? Any idea where to get them in the USA?


I am in Singapore. Phatlab is a Taiwanese company. http://www.phatlabaudio.com/. 

Jaben Singapore carries the Phatlab range. https://store.jaben.com/collections/vendors?q=phatlab


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## Kiats

SMOoth Operator said:


> Agreed! Astell & Kern is way overrated in general...... Glad I found Shanling and finally stopped drinking the A&K KoolAid....



I think the issue is that AK decided to continue to develop in a particular direction which now seems to be out of touch with what consumers desire. And I suspect they got complacent.


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## Kiats

SMOoth Operator said:


> Yeh, I really love the C9 though. I have not listened to my Continental Duel Mono's since I got the C9 in. I have 3 CDM's and was even considering selling one, but I need to do more comparisons first. Each one of my CDM's has a different pair of tubes rolling in it, so trying to figure which flavor to give up. I am also really curious about the Phatlab Chimara, wondering if the tube can be rolled easily.....


Drop a line to the contact email at Phatlab. The owner, Eric, is a nice chap. He will be able to provide guidance.


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## ThanatosVI

SMOoth Operator said:


> Friends dont let friends buy Brilliant Pebbles.


That is signature worthy 😁


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## Whitigir

SMOoth Operator said:


> Agreed! Astell & Kern is way overrated in general...... Glad I found Shanling and finally stopped drinking the A&K KoolAid....


Yepe! I couldn’t stand SP2K for a week.  I still struggle to see why it is as overrated as is ....


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## HiFiHawaii808

Marat Sar said:


> Man, had to send my c9 back for a spot of warranty/repairs (the seller will send a replacement unit asap, thank god!) and I'm stuck listening to my sp2000 without the c9. And oooooh buy is it boring compared to the C9 in the chain. The shrunken soundstage feels so ordinary. No tube hue, everything's so cold. The organization of elements into the soundstage is boring too. None of the grandiosity of the c9 where some sounds appear to come from an entirely different room. No -- everything's in this one box.
> 
> The c9 has totally ruined single unit DAPs for me. Can't wait til I get it back.
> 
> In positive news, I got the Oriolus Trailli. The decisive factor was someone on this thread saying the soundstge with c9 and trailli is "almost too large." F yeah! That's what I've been looking for. A soundstage that's TOO LARGE. That's me.


By far, my favorite sound is with the C9.   Whenever I am in the house, I use the C9 + R6 2020 pairing.   I can listen at the desktop and carry it around the house when I need to warm up my coffee.   That said, I still listen without any problem to my W2+ iPhone or DX160.    As long as the sound is greater than a minimum level,  I am fine with the sound from a standalone DAP.   I rotate IEMs 2-3 times per day.   So, I am constantly varying what I am listening to.


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## cheznous

jmills8 said:


> Sp2000 is way overrated.


If people love it then that is their prerogative surely. 
So it is not overrated to those that enjoy it. Who made you the arbiter of all that is good and great. 
Personally I prefer AK to say Shanling but that is my taste.


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## jmills8

cheznous said:


> If people love it then that is their prerogative surely.
> So it is not overrated to those that enjoy it. Who made you the arbiter of all that is good and great.
> Personally I prefer AK to say Shanling but that is my taste.


My expert opinion. You can believe what you desire.


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## Tanalasta

You’re entitled to your opinion just as others are to theirs.

From a technical perspective, the SP2000 DAC/Amp implementation is still superb. It’s significantly better than many DAPs and for steamers is Roon ready. And the Roon implementation works very well.

On topic, what desktop amp would the C9 compare closest to. And is it as good as say a Moon 230HAD? Or a desktop amp of the same price point?

im contemplating options to go with Trailli and Utopia


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## bluestorm1992

Tanalasta said:


> You’re entitled to your opinion just as others are to theirs.
> 
> From a technical perspective, the SP2000 DAC/Amp implementation is still superb. It’s significantly better than many DAPs and for steamers is Roon ready. And the Roon implementation works very well.
> 
> ...


I compare it with Xiaudio Broadway amp, the default amp to drive Diana V2. The two are basically the same in quality. Not timbre-wise, just the overall performance in driving V2.


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## bluestorm1992

C9 has a new companion - Mason FS.


----------



## Tanalasta

Lol it’s almost midnight where I am other side of the world. I’m very relaxed.

Following this thread to contemplate whether the C9 will pair well with Hugo 2. Is there much difference between the SE and balanced sound quality? And can you use the SE input (eg. Out of thr Hugo 2) and plug a headphone into the balanced 4.4 or do you have to match input to output.

Had to choose between the bird or the cactus wood and went with the former. So how is the $6000 IEM out of the C9.


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## szore

ian91 said:


> You're not helping me avoid spending more money! Haha!
> 
> Edit: also completely agree - the intimacy and detail of a good IEM seem to allow it to place the stage in what feels like a more realistic dimension for me.


I just can't stand the weight of the headphones sitting on my head.....


----------



## ian91

szore said:


> I just can't stand the weight of the headphones sitting on my head.....


I don't mind some weight personally and actually gravitated towards overears initially because I didn't like the idea of having something in my ear canals. However I quickly got over that and what keeps bringing me back to IEMs is the presentation of sound and the isolation.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Tanalasta said:


> Lol it’s almost midnight where I am other side of the world. I’m very relaxed.
> 
> Following this thread to contemplate whether the C9 will pair well with Hugo 2. Is there much difference between the SE and balanced sound quality? And can you use the SE input (eg. Out of thr Hugo 2) and plug a headphone into the balanced 4.4 or do you have to match input to output.
> 
> Had to choose between the bird or the cactus wood and went with the former. So how is the $6000 IEM out of the C9.


I can confirm that the C9 pairs well with the Hugo 2.    The sound quality is fantastic even USB to my laptop.  The problem with it is usability.   The Hugo 2 needs to be plugged in all the time to preserve the battery and keeping it in desktop mode.   But, you can't charge the C9 at the same time, so you need to sacrifice either battery life on the Hugo 2 or sacrifice listening time with the C9.     The C9 is built to pair with a DAP most efficiently.

I think if you are willing to go all out with it like @lumdicks did, you can really get a killer sound with the Hugo 2 and C9, but it will be more a permanent desktop solution.

For me, I am considering the following set up with my Hugo 2 and C9

Bluesound Node 2i streamer running Tidal Connect > mscaler > Hugo 2 > C9 > IEMs and Headphones.     I just need to find a good deal on a mscaler.


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## DaYooper

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I can confirm that the C9 pairs well with the Hugo 2.    The sound quality is fantastic even USB to my laptop.  The problem with it is usability.   The Hugo 2 needs to be plugged in all the time to preserve the battery and keeping it in desktop mode.   But, you can't charge the C9 at the same time, so you need to sacrifice either battery life on the Hugo 2 or sacrifice listening time with the C9.     The C9 is built to pair with a DAP most efficiently.
> 
> I think if you are willing to go all out with it like @lumdicks did, you can really get a killer sound with the Hugo 2 and C9, but it will be more a permanent desktop solution.
> 
> ...


Is he with the longest gear chain the winner?


----------



## Marat Sar (May 5, 2021)

Now now, the SP2000 is an excellent DAP. The soundstage, separation and imaging are at the very top, outdone only by two competitors of which one is almost twice the price -- and the other is also more expensive. Nor does any other DAP have anything close to the C9's soundstage and desktop level performance. Remember -- it's literally the size of a brick too. No dumping on AK on my watch  Their products are comfy to use, have streaming, mature Ui, the SP2000 is Roon ready too. And they're also easy to buy -- available from many sellers, local sellers included, in the US and EU (a lot of asian DAPs are hard to buy). And they look better than any competitor too. There's nothing complacent about the SP2000 which outputs detail levels on par with the Hugo2, yet also has a screen and a UI. And is an excellent source for the C9. The SP2000 was a significant jump up from the SP1000 too, remember.

You can say it sounds too neutral, cold and unmusical -- many people do. That's its characteristic. You can also say it lacks "true LO" but from my short research into it after getting the C9 -- almost every other DAP also lacks "true LO". From the end game ones, the ones that compete with SP2000, only the Lotoo flagship has true LO, I hear. (You can correct me on this. If I'm wrong please do, the LO research was patchy and hard to do, companies are very sneaky about this feature. Everyone says they sorta have it, then forums disagree. Even posters here have disagreed as to which flagship DAP has it and which hasn't, so hence my confusion)

I still really miss my C9 though


----------



## Whitigir (May 5, 2021)

Tanalasta said:


> You’re entitled to your opinion just as others are to theirs.
> 
> *From a technical perspective, the SP2000 DAC/Amp implementation is still superb*. It’s significantly better than many DAPs and for steamers is Roon ready. And the Roon implementation works very well.
> 
> ...


And you know this how ? They, AK, doesn’t even disclose anything specifics about their implementations. 

Regardless of implementations, if the users can not hear it, then it just doesn’t work.  However, sound is subjective, and on this front, everyone is right as @jmills8 said.  I have seen some people being head over heels on AK Line Out and spending big money for adapter and Interconnect, while technically the SP2K doesn’t have a true dedicated line out, where some users have degraded quality when connected toward the C9.  So you are entitled to your own subjective opinions.  But when talking about technically advantages, how is AK SP2K being more advanced than a Shanling M8 that has an FPGA to help in digital processing as an example ? Does SP2K even have any dedicated FPGA ? Even N6ii have it, and I will say it again, the A02 will shame many thing out there as a dedicated source

PS: I am not saying that SP2K is bad. It is good, but it is OverPriced and Overrated.  Yes, you buy it for the luxurious experiences of it, but AK customer services is one of the most horrid in the whole industry, especially when compared to other brands from China


----------



## Marat Sar

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I can confirm that the C9 pairs well with the Hugo 2.    The sound quality is fantastic even USB to my laptop.  The problem with it is usability.   The Hugo 2 needs to be plugged in all the time to preserve the battery and keeping it in desktop mode.   But, you can't charge the C9 at the same time, so you need to sacrifice either battery life on the Hugo 2 or sacrifice listening time with the C9.     The C9 is built to pair with a DAP most efficiently.
> 
> I think if you are willing to go all out with it like @lumdicks did, you can really get a killer sound with the Hugo 2 and C9, but it will be more a permanent desktop solution.
> 
> ...



But... then why the C9? There are full size desktop amps out there that are better than the C9, also better for IEMS. And you don't have to recharge them all the time and mess with all that.

This reminds me of when I discovered that the Cayin c5 amp and Chord Mojo (then recently released) are a godly combination of detailed 3D soundstage and raw warm musicality. And then I had to strap an AK100 DAP to them, because the Mojo, being the Mojo, didn't have a UI. I ended up carrying around this ungainly mishmash of bricks. Ended up listening to it very rarely, but it made for a cool "look at me, I'm a mad headfier" pic for the portable pic thread. Cayin amps and Chord DACs together produce incredible SQ, but it's just impossible to turn them into anything resembling a smooth portable rig.


----------



## Marat Sar (May 5, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> And you know this how ? They, AK, doesn’t even disclose anything specifics about their implementations.



Sorry, I probably used the word "technical" wrong. When I say it I mean some kind of vague sense of details and stuff like that, how "advanced" things sound to me. I'm not  a tech guy at all and yeah, FPGAs tend to sound more advanced to my ears too, than AKM implementations. Really thinkin of getting the N6ii with that A02 module everyone's talking about here (you included). Or an L6 pro, though the line out quality on that is still an open question to me...

Can still attest that to my ears the SP2000 + c9 sound simply amazing. Just very interested in DAP rolling it a bit, since I have some spare cash.

And yeah, I can definitely agree that AK's standing in the head fi world is something that warrants scrutiny. They've done cool stuff lately, though. Added DAC filter options, and the new A&Futura lines seem very forward thinking. the SP190 with its modules especially. But I defa see where people are coming from with the criticisms too.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Marat Sar said:


> But... then why the C9? There are full size desktop amps out there that are better than the C9, also better for IEMS. And you don't have to recharge them all the time and mess with all that.
> 
> This reminds me of when I discovered that the Cayin c5 amp and Chord Mojo (then recently released) are a godly combination of detailed 3D soundstage and raw warm musicality. And then I had to strap an AK100 DAP to them, because the Mojo, being the Mojo, didn't have a UI. I ended up carrying around this ungainly mishmash of bricks. Ended up listening to it very rarely, but it made for a cool "look at me, I'm a mad headfier" pic for the portable pic thread. Cayin amps and Chord DACs together produce incredible SQ, but it's just impossible to turn them into anything resembling a smooth portable rig.


Because I am an audiophile and I have to know what it sounds like.

I also bought a THX AAA 789 amp.   I am going to swap out the C9 with it to see how it sounds.   And, I am going to swap out the Hugo 2 with my Bifrost 2 to see how it sounds.   Then, I'll ultimately swap out the THX AAA 789 with a Chord Hugo TT2 to see how it sounds.    Then, I'll buy either a ZMF Pendant SE or a Primaluna EVO 100 to see how it sounds.   And I'll have the ultimate desktop solution for my needs after going through an audiophile discovery process known as the rabbit hole.


----------



## Whitigir

Marat Sar said:


> Sorry, I probably used the word "technical" wrong. When I say it I mean some kind of vague sense of details and stuff like that, how "advanced" things sound to me. I'm not  a tech guy at all and yeah, FPGAs tend to sound more advanced to my ears too, than AKM implementations. Really thinkin of getting the N6ii with that A02 module everyone's talking about here. Or an L6 pro, though the line out quality on that is still an open question to me.


I am still curious about L6 Pro line out.  Usually, a “Shared port” toward the headphones output indicates of a “non-dedicated LO”

Volume attenuations is not any indications of a dedicated line out or not.

The reason is that most Modern DAC Chips nowadays has the digital attenuation stages, and in most DAP, it is enabled to control volumes.  However, Shared port Headphones/LO is not possible to have a dedicated line out without going through all of the other amplifier components, and that makes it a Pseudo Line Out at most

So, does L6Pro has a dedicated LO port ?


----------



## Marat Sar

bluestorm1992 said:


> C9 has a new companion - Mason FS.



DUUUUUDE! How is the Mason? Any premature evaluations to share? Especially compared to Trailli...


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

ian91 said:


> I don't mind some weight personally and actually gravitated towards overears initially because I didn't like the idea of having something in my ear canals. However I quickly got over that and what keeps bringing me back to IEMs is the presentation of sound and the isolation.


I completely agree.   In addition, the C9 has really made me love IEMs.    The increased sound stage and improved macro dynamics and transient attack makes me forget that I am not listening to full sized headphones.   Plus, I retain the micro dynamics and sound isolation inherent with IEMs.


----------



## ian91

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I completely agree.   In addition, the C9 has really made me love IEMs.    The increased sound stage and improved macro dynamics and transient attack makes me forget that I am not listening to full sized headphones.   Plus, I retain the micro dynamics and sound isolation inherent with IEMs.


Here here! 

On another note, I demo'ed the C9 today. Think I'm going to take the dive and get one. There's just too much versatility to pass up.


----------



## ThanatosVI

ian91 said:


> Here here!
> 
> On another note, I demo'ed the C9 today. Think I'm going to take the dive and get one. There's just too much versatility to pass up.


Where did you get the opportunity to demo one?


----------



## ian91

ThanatosVI said:


> Where did you get the opportunity to demo one?



Local shop in the UK. Quite serendipitous to be honest. Theres nothing else as exciting near to me.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Marat Sar said:


> DUUUUUDE! How is the Mason? Any premature evaluations to share? Especially compared to Trailli...


We are having lots of discussions in its dedicated thread ATM.


----------



## SMOoth Operator (May 5, 2021)

Marat Sar said:


> Now now, the SP2000 is an excellent DAP. The soundstage, separation and imaging are at the very top, outdone only by two competitors of which one is almost twice the price -- and the other is also more expensive. Nor does any other DAP have anything close to the C9's soundstage and desktop level performance. Remember -- it's literally the size of a brick too. No dumping on AK on my watch  Their products are comfy to use, have streaming, mature Ui, the SP2000 is Roon ready too. And they're also easy to buy -- available from many sellers, local sellers included, in the US and EU (a lot of asian DAPs are hard to buy). And they look better than any competitor too. There's nothing complacent about the SP2000 which outputs detail levels on par with the Hugo2, yet also has a screen and a UI. And is an excellent source for the C9. The SP2000 was a significant jump up from the SP1000 too, remember.
> 
> You can say it sounds too neutral, cold and unmusical -- many people do. That's its characteristic. You can also say it lacks "true LO" but from my short research into it after getting the C9 -- almost every other DAP also lacks "true LO". From the end game ones, the ones that compete with SP2000, only the Lotoo flagship has true LO, I hear. (You can correct me on this. If I'm wrong please do, the LO research was patchy and hard to do, companies are very sneaky about this feature. Everyone says they sorta have it, then forums disagree. Even posters here have disagreed as to which flagship DAP has it and which hasn't, so hence my confusion)
> 
> I still really miss my C9 though


I disagree with pretty much 99% of what was said here. All opinion and very little fact..... Oh and last I tried to stream A&K's app was broken, still waiting a month later for the fix. And dont even get me started on A&K useless EQ, it is like a really unfunny joke... How does that A&K KoolAid taste, Mmmm yummy?! Shanling destroys everything A&K poops out and at a fraction of the price. But Shanling is also not the "Prestige Cult" that A&K is, so I dont get cool points for owning one.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Guys, don't turn here into a AK fighting thread.  Agree to disagree.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

SMOoth Operator said:


> I disagree with pretty much 99% of what was said here. All opinion and very little fact..... Oh and last I tried to stream A&K's app was broken, still waiting a month later for the fix. And dont even get me started on A&K useless EQ, it is like a really unfunny joke... How does that A&K KoolAid taste, Mmmm yummy?! Shanling destroys everything A&K poops out and at a fraction of the price. But Shanling is also not the "Prestige Cult" that A&K is, so I dont get cool points for owning one.


What was the 1% you agreed with?


----------



## SMOoth Operator (May 5, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> What was the 1% you agreed with?


The part about hardly anyone having a true Line Out and the Roon implementation. Ok, ok, I disagree with about 98% of what was said there. @bluestorm1992 is right though, lets steer it back on topic. I already had my massive A&K rant on the SP2000 thread, no need to rehash it here.


----------



## gazzington

At one point I owned the Sp2k, wm1z, lpgt and n8. The Sp2k had lovely build quality but sound wise was just ok. Preferred all the other daps. Now, in own the n8 and wm1z


----------



## RTodd

gazzington said:


> At one point I owned the Sp2k, wm1z, lpgt and n8. The Sp2k had lovely build quality but sound wise was just ok. Preferred all the other daps. Now, in own the n8 and wm1z


I often root for the underdog.
Sony is the Big dog and A&K is right behind as far as name and market.
Besides that personally not a fan of the designs.
On demo A&K did not wow me.

People can love these or hate these but no excuse for terrible customer service and not releasing technical data. Non open tech is exactly why some people hate Apple products.


----------



## Tanalasta

To clarify, “technical” I was referring to the sound (as in how we would describe a headphone sound signature)’ not the hardware technology. It’s well discussed that we have no transparency as to the amp implementation in the SP2K. I concur it’s expensive but the Trailli does pair very well with it if you enjoy the neutral presentation.

As to line out… I just send the analogue headphone signal out rather than activate line out mode specifically.

I can’t find anyone with the C9 to demo. Which desktop amps would work better with IEM’s and headphones?


----------



## Whitigir (May 6, 2021)

Well, even the Neutral signature ore representations are an elusive points of references or subjective.  What is exactly neutral ? A respond that is Flat ? Well, all of these devices are sweeping measured and all of them have Flat respond LOL!

Then may be the artists would say that as long as the instrument they are playing are being rendered exactly as they would feel it in (pitch perfect senses), then what about the rest of other instruments ? May be a Bassist would say that, oh, this is the Bass pitches that I have been craving for, but then the other Brass guy would be like, Oh man...this is too warmth, and not exactly what I would want reproduced.

The one thing for sure that I have been observing is that , and I talked to artist who would agree....many Audiophiles would associate “Stereo sound“ to be ”Neutral and references”

What is Stereos sound that I just mentioned ? Well, the sounds of panning effects, the separated by channels, regardless of cohesiveness or fluidity, all the details to count how many instruments being in a concerts, but none of them sound organic or realistic enough.

But hey, life is an imperfection by itself, and reality is reality.  Just when we want to reproduce something, it can artificially be enhanced, or be closer to reality, but it can never be the perfect exact replica anyways.

So, the conclusion ? Each of us have our own preferences, and I wouldnt be here to post this if you simply said “In My Opinion, SP2K is better than everything I have heard, including MSB Desktop system”.....as an example, that is fine by me  .  Subjectively, we are all right in our minds, but we need to know when we are speaking out of our behinds, and we accept that it is our behind and not others

Now, back to the C9 and to keep it on track.  The C9 is warmer than what the common audiophiles would say “neutral or references”.  However, the C9 is more ”neutral and references” than Shanling M8, and Shanling M30.  Neither of them are bad, but to me, the M30 Korg tubes is really Tube like, where the C9 is more SS hybrid....Strange thing is that they complement each other so well.  It would be expensive to keep both and maintain both though


----------



## Tanalasta

Agreed above ! Neutral reference - DCS Bartok perhaps?  All very subjective. 

The warm coloration of the C9 May work well in my current chain and headphone choices. I’m wary however of changes to sound quality or detail retrieval in other areas so don’t want to commit without audition. I have the wa11 for instance which was much hyped. It provides a lovely warm coloration. But despite being Class A  can have issues with distortion/noise especially with highly resolving headphones. The burr to synthesised piano notes can be  unpleasantly accentuated on the Utopia, less so wirh Hd800S. I’m hopeful C9 doesn’t have these issues.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Tanalasta said:


> Agreed above ! Neutral reference - DCS Bartok perhaps?  All very subjective.
> 
> The warm coloration of the C9 May work well in my current chain and headphone choices. I’m wary however of changes to sound quality or detail retrieval in other areas so don’t want to commit without audition. I have the wa11 for instance which was much hyped. It provides a lovely warm coloration. But despite being Class A  can have issues with distortion/noise especially with highly resolving headphones. The burr to synthesised piano notes can be  unpleasantly accentuated on the Utopia, less so wirh Hd800S. I’m hopeful C9 doesn’t have these issues.


WA11's distortion is so high that I don't want to include it in my past gear list... C9 is much better in this regard.


----------



## Marat Sar

Gonna be interesting listening to the Oriolus Trailli with the C9 once I get it back. Not only because the insane soundstage of the IEM and the insane soundstage of the amp are gonna be double-insane most likely. But, also, I think this is where I'll need that versatility from C9. I love what I'm hearing from the Trailli now from my Sp2000 but the bass can get a bit overwhelming for my tastes. And it's an already warm and musical IEM. So, when I listened to the u18t I liked tube / AB. Thinkin I might need the SS / A setting to get the Trailli more linear and lean down the bass a bit.


----------



## Zambu

I'll just say that a proper QC 3.0 charger is pretty nice with C9 haha...don't be like me, I used the first couple of weeks with an old Samsung charger so it took like way over 10 hours, I actually never saw "all lights steady and none blinking" while loading, even after a full night charging. Anyway, the proper 3 hours now for a full charge. It was just a bit weird how it went from empty battery (I wanted to test) to "third light blinking already" in less than 30 minutes but I suppose it's kind of recalibrating.


----------



## ian91

Just looking back through the thread try to establish what the carry case options are for the C9. ifi Traveller and the DDHifi case. Any other recommendations? 

Cheers!


----------



## greenmac

This solution seems to work well for me at the moment, imported from Japan (What!)


----------



## Tanalasta

Oh ... very nice. 
Are there any distributors in Australia? I couldn't find a distributor listing. Otherwise, I could order from the US or will take a recommendation.


----------



## ian91

greenmac said:


> This solution seems to work well for me at the moment, imported from Japan (What!)


Lovely case, man.


----------



## ThanatosVI

greenmac said:


> This solution seems to work well for me at the moment, imported from Japan (What!)


Nice, why does everything fit so well in?


----------



## Nostoi

greenmac said:


> This solution seems to work well for me at the moment, imported from Japan (What!)


That is nice. Got a link?


----------



## Nostoi

ian91 said:


> Just looking back through the thread try to establish what the carry case options are for the C9. ifi Traveller and the DDHifi case. Any other recommendations?
> 
> Cheers!


I use a Peli 1140 case, though it's hefty and mostly designed for maximum protection rather than portability.

I also have the DDHifi case and wouldn't really recommend it for the C9 - not enough protection and the fit is tight.


----------



## zen87192

Joined the case club a bit late but got a real bargain on these brand new ones via A.E. 
Just placed an order for one of these as well....

https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/Water...21f93&pd_rd_wg=xyeHO&pd_rd_i=B086TWFRSN&psc=1


----------



## greenmac

Nostoi said:


> That is nice. Got a link?



https://www.e-earphone.jp/product/search/list/?category_id=221


----------



## greenmac

ThanatosVI said:


> Nice, why does everything fit so well in?



See 4th picture.

Internal dividers are Velcro so you can move things around. Everything seems snug with room for 

Cables
Tips
Spare cables
Spare tips
DAP
C9

Etc etc


----------



## ThanatosVI

Nostoi said:


> I use a Peli 1140 case, though it's hefty and mostly designed for maximum protection rather than portability.
> 
> I also have the DDHifi case and wouldn't really recommend it for the C9 - not enough protection and the fit is tight.


Thats my favourite so far


----------



## Nostoi

ThanatosVI said:


> Thats my favourite so far


It's definitely a necessity if you have young children who love gadgets.


----------



## LabelH

Seems will be a good friend for C9 later 

https://www.facebook.com/PSoundASIA/photos/a.121747046172591/356684139345546/?type=3&theater


----------



## Tanalasta

Is it just me of the first thing my eyes were drawn to was the bottle of Hennessy. 

I might just grab a glass right now. 

Has anyone who has a Moon 230HAD or A90 compared the amp section in sound quality and tonality from the C9? I'm pretty stoked with how my Trailli sound out of the SP2000 already so any improvement would have to be meaningful.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Tanalasta said:


> Is it just me of the first thing my eyes were drawn to was the bottle of Hennessy.
> 
> I might just grab a glass right now.
> 
> Has anyone who has a Moon 230HAD or A90 compared the amp section in sound quality and tonality from the C9? I'm pretty stoked with how my Trailli sound out of the SP2000 already so any improvement would have to be meaningful.


Don’t want to be pushy, but Liang from Cayin said to expect an official “sold out” announcement from Cayin very soon, due to part shortages. Retailers around the globe seem to still have stocks ATM, but likely those will be the only ones left in the next couple of months.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (May 6, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> Don’t want to be pushy, but Liang from Cayin said to expect an official “sold out” announcement from Cayin very soon, due to part shortages. Retailers around the globe seem to still have stocks ATM, but likely those will be the only ones left in the next couple of months.


Sold out of C9?

btw, did the May surprise happen yet?  What was the special product announcement?


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Sold out of C9?
> 
> btw, did the May surprise happen yet?  What was the special product announcement?


Yes. Cayin's third batch of C9 has an unknown ETA due to part shortages.

Yes the May announcement is still happening. Right now is the labor day holiday in China, and we shall see some more info from them soon.


----------



## RTodd

Picked up my fresh Thummim today with 4.4.
Andrew has his demo back.
Sitting here marveling at C9 PAW6K and Haken Virus, the instrumental version. That extra bass lift makes this incredibly slamming. Put Traillii in and it kind of falls apart. Switching to SS Traillii is real good, still not as good though, at least to my ears. This is Metal with a healthy dose of Prog.


----------



## Tanalasta

bluestorm1992 said:


> Yes. Cayin's third batch of C9 has an unknown ETA due to part shortages.
> 
> Yes the May announcement is still happening. Right now is the labor day holiday in China, and we shall see some more info from them soon.


Any hints on a May announcement?
My hesitation with the C9 is really that I need a desktop solution. But finally found an Australian distributor (who hasn’t replied). Wish there was a digital in.


----------



## RTodd

Tanalasta said:


> Any hints on a May announcement?
> My hesitation with the C9 is really that I need a desktop solution. But finally found an Australian distributor (who hasn’t replied). Wish there was a digital in.


That would be cool, but then it would need to convert that to analog. Could be one of the advantages of the stack is keeping those two realms isolated from each other.


----------



## gazzington

Absolutely love the c9. To be honest before I bought it, I wasn’t sure if I’d get much use out of it. lol I’ve been using it every day while working and am always sad when it’s battery runs low. It makes all my Iems sound better plus my focal elex. Best audio purchase ever. I use it with N6ii and a02


----------



## Zambu

gazzington said:


> To be honest before I bought it, I wasn’t sure if I’d get much use out of it.


Yeah I had bit of the same as the rest of my gear isn't TOTL. But I guess the main selling point was that even in 5 years if I buy some new DAP or new IEM I will probably want to try and use it with C9 more or less.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Cayin will have a new product announcement event on May 15-16 in the Chengdu international headphone show. Stayed tuned!


----------



## gazzington

Is that a copper n8?


----------



## jmills8

gazzington said:


> Is that a copper n8?


Hope N9.


----------



## gazzington

jmills8 said:


> Hope N9.


Me too, not that I can afford one!


----------



## bluestorm1992

gazzington said:


> Is that a copper n8?


The copper N8 has been announced already so I think this should be something more.


----------



## LabelH

LabelH said:


> Seems will be a good friend for C9 later
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/PSoundASIA/photos/a.121747046172591/356684139345546/?type=3&theater


From what I found this one is N8 LE (only 30 units according to PSA)
See: https://weibo.com/3578602913/KedEexiW2


bluestorm1992 said:


> Cayin’s general manager made a teaser in C9’s user group yesterday that Cayin will have a new product release event in May (not an April fool’s announcement lol). It is very likely to be a new player as it begins with “N”.
> 
> Edit: If you are a C9 user and wish to join the C9 user WeChat group, shoot me a PM.


Maybe @bluestorm1992 can ask the insider contact, if there is more "N" coming


----------



## Tanalasta

Phew. Not another amp! Because I just bought the C9. Just waiting on it to arrive


----------



## ThanatosVI

Tanalasta said:


> Phew. Not another amp! Because I just bought the C9. Just waiting on it to arrive


We can always use more Cayin headamps


----------



## Tanalasta

Has anyone driven the HD800S out of the Cayin C9 to comment? I've seen a few posts to suggest it is 'okay'. At the moment, my portable setup is the WA11 Topaz which works well enough.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Tanalasta said:


> Has anyone driven the HD800S out of the Cayin C9 to comment? I've seen a few posts to suggest it is 'okay'. At the moment, my portable setup is the WA11 Topaz which works well enough.


Driving HD800 was the intention of our first user here @Whitigir, and he reported very favorable results.


----------



## Tanalasta

bluestorm1992 said:


> Driving HD800 was the intention of our first user here @Whitigir, and he reported very favorable results.



Fabulous.

I have a feeling Hugo2/2Go or SP2000 -> C9 with my Utopia, Empyrean, HD800S and Trailli will be a very fine time indeed. I can't wait for it to arrive.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Tanalasta said:


> Fabulous.
> 
> I have a feeling Hugo2/2Go or SP2000 -> C9 with my Utopia, Empyrean, HD800S and Trailli will be a very fine time indeed. I can't wait for it to arrive.


I am confident that this pairing should work great with your CANS based on what other people said.

BTW, make sure to try your Traillii with C9. Could be an even bigger surprise.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Tanalasta said:


> Has anyone driven the HD800S out of the Cayin C9 to comment? I've seen a few posts to suggest it is 'okay'. At the moment, my portable setup is the WA11 Topaz which works well enough.


When I get home later this month, I will try to pair up my HD800S with my Hugo 2 + C9.    Right now, I am using this set up for driving my ZMF Verite Closed headphones and it is fantastic.     I use R6 2020 + C9 for driving IEMs.    Hugo 2 + C9 is better for driving my VC.   Need to test it with my other full sized headphones, but I expect these optimal pairings to hold.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

I got my battery charger from Amazon and the replacement Sony batteries.  Charging them up was easy and there is a good display on the charger monitoring data such as percentage charged of each battery.    I listened to my C9 until it got to 1 bar and I opened up the C9 case with the tool provided and swapped the batteries.    Very easy to do.  The only issue I encountered is that it took a while for the C9 to recognize the new batteries.   Not sure what I did, but it did eventually occur.   I am thinking that it might be okay to leave the screws out and stored in a safe place if lots of battery swapping is required to prevent unintentional loss of screw or stripping of the head.    Anyway, since I have since decided to pair my C9 primarily with my R6 2020, there is less of a need for battery swapping.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (May 7, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I got my battery charger from Amazon and the replacement Sony batteries.  Charging them up was easy and there is a good display on the charger monitoring data such as percentage charged of each battery.    I listened to my C9 until it got to 1 bar and I opened up the C9 case with the tool provided and swapped the batteries.    Very easy to do.  The only issue I encountered is that it took a while for the C9 to recognize the new batteries.   Not sure what I did, but it did eventually occur.   I am thinking that it might be okay to leave the screws out and stored in a safe place if lots of battery swapping is required to prevent unintentional loss of screw or stripping of the head.    Anyway, since I have since decided to pair my C9 primarily with my R6 2020, there is less of a need for battery swapping.


Every time you pull out and replace batteries, C9 automatically enters into the protection mode. You need to charge it for a sec after you put things back.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> Every time you pull out and replace batteries, C9 automatically enters into the protection mode. You need need to charge it for a sec after you put things back.


Thanks.  That's actually what I did and must be what engaged it.


----------



## So11rek (May 7, 2021)

I tried several options, but now I think the c9 is best suited for neutral dap / dac with high sound resolution and great detail possibilities. Warm and smooth DAPs / DACs fits poorly, imo. I use P6 pro + C9 with both UM Mest and Empyrean. After a while I finally found the perfect combination for myself.


----------



## Andykong

I have explained the Charging and Protection Circuit of C9 previously, given the latest experience and concern, I would like to spend some time to explain the C9 protection mechanism in more detail, but please read through the previous explanation before you move on.

First of all, let me restate the two typical conditions that will result in shorting the ground circuit and triggered the C9 protection mechanism:

When C9 is connected to a source device  (e.g., DAP) with interconnect, and both devices are charged through USB charger at the same time.
When C9 is connected to your computer with interconnect, and using the USB from the computer to charge up C9.

The C9 battery module has two independent grounding system, the reference ground for audio power supply (aka Audio Ground) and reference ground for USB Charger (aka Charger Ground).  Since the C9 power amplification circuit requires positive and negative voltage concurrently, we have designed the battery module to connect four pieces of 18650 lithium battery in series.  The design will deliver a high quality ±8.4V power supply without needing a complicated DC/DC power regulation circuit, one of the critical success factor to maintain excellent transient current in C9 power supply.    However, to achieve +8.4V and -8.4V power supply, we need a 0 reference point, and that is the audio ground.  

In C9 implementation, the Audio Ground is connected to the chassis in order to shield the circuit from external interference.  The Charger Ground is connected to the chassis of USB-C connector, and they are independent from each other.  Their absolute voltage should always different from each other by two pieces of 18650 battery in the C9 battery module (i.e, somewhere between 6V to 8.4V) 

When condition (1) or (2) exist, the Audio Ground of C9  will connect to the Audio Ground of the source (DAP or computer) through the 3.5mm or 4.4mm interconnect.  If the Audio Ground and Charger Ground of the source equipment are common ground instead of independent from each other (which is very likely), when you charge up C9 and Source equipment at the same time, The Audio Ground of your source equipment will connected to the C9 Charging Ground directly, via the charging ground of the source equipment.  This is why we end up with a shorted ground circuit in the system.

C9 Audio Ground => Interconnect => Source Audio Ground = Source Charger Ground => C9 Charging Ground

When the Audio Ground and Charger Ground of C9 is shorted, the current will go up instantly and trigger the protection mechanism of C9, and put C9 into protection mode immediately.

Base on these explanation, we can now examine the questions (and observations) from C9 users:



Whitigir said:


> Well, there is another way to charge your C9 while listening.
> 
> 1/ Only use Balanced IC cables **without Ground**
> 
> ...



Yes, we have tested the C9 with N6ii as source, connecting with the C9 stock 4.4mm interconnect.  When we connect both N6ii and C9 to the same USB charger, it won't trigger the protection mechanism.   We can check this video for reference (sorry for the quality of the video, it was taken by an engineer in our R&D lab as internal discussion material, I'll remove the video by end of May)

On the other hand, in contrast to our previous understanding, even when using dedicated USB charger for C9 and DAP separately, there is still a chance that  C9 Audio Ground and Charger Ground can linked up if you look at the signal path carefully, so for safety sake, do not charge C9 and source equipment at the same time.

My recommendation is to stick with ONE USB CHARGER for C9 and DAP stack.  With this practise, you can charge the DAP or C9 but not both.  For example, even when both device are in relatively low battery reading, you can charge the DAP for 20 minutes and then unplug it and charge the C9 for an hour.  Since Lithium battery prefer swallow charging cycle and there is no memory effect, you can charge them anytime instead of waiting till the last 10% battery (or when the last C9 battery LED is blinking).



Marat Sar said:


> Damn. Might've damaged either my c9 or my sp2000 -- or both -- because I charged them while connected after all. Odd behaviour from both units. My SP2000 somehow outputs volume levels 20% higher than before, like it's stuck on high gain (I don't have LO on and even did a full system reset). Hard to say if something is wrong with the sound -- in addition to the volume issue -- but it feels there might be. And the C9 just doesn't sound good any more. Congested and blurry, soundstage feels smaller and details are missing. Like it was in single ended or something... Tried with new batteries too, doesn't seem to make much of a difference.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Marat's case is still a mystery to us.  He used a 4.4mm to 2.5mm adapter cable as interconnect between C9 and SP2000, the interconnect is not grounded, so based on our experiment, even charging them together with the same charger won't trigger protective mechanism.  Unfortunately, Marat triggered the C9 protection mechanism and to the level that the USB-C port of his C9 battery module is damaged.  We need to examine the damaged C9 before we can arrive at any conclusion so we are waiting for the unit to fly back to Zhuhai from his dealer.  We do not exclude the possibility that this particular C9 is having some circuitry problem and we apology for all inconvenience caused.

On the other hand, even when the short circuit was more severe than we expect, the SP2000 resume normal operation after the EQ setting is resumed.  



brannigan said:


> @Andykong to test out my laptop audio, I connected the 3.5 aux out from a relatively new ThinkPad laptop to the 3.5 input of the C9. The C9 was charging from a usb c port from the same laptop. The moment I plugged in the 3.5 to the C9, heard a high pitched sound from the laptop follows by an instant shut down. Upon restart the laptop audio is fried including internal microphone and speakers. Is this a grounding issue of the C9 or a phantom power that fried the laptop audio.
> The C9 seems to have escaped unscathed from this incident.



Theoretically when condition (1) or (2) existed, the C9 protection mechanism will kick in and power off immediately.  We have conduct numerous protection mechanism tests with our DAPs during the R&D and QC process, and the protection mechanism will always responds very quickly and our DAPs were not damaged.  So far this is the only instance that the source equipment was damaged when the C9 Protection Mechanism was triggered.  We suspect that the grounding system of a computer is more complicated and fragile than the grounding system of a DAP because the common ground of a computer is designed to share by many internal devices and external peripherals.  We don't pretend to know the reason for sure based on the short description of the instance, but we want to remind our users who plan to connect their computer headphone output to C9, please proceed with extra care.



bluestorm1992 said:


> Agree. Maybe there can be another version of C9 WITHOUT the replaceable batteries but with a Li battery power supply and allows for simultaneous charging.
> 
> As I understand it, the power shorting thing is unavoidable with a 18650 battery design. But for me, for example, I don’t remove the batteries at all, so it could work for me to purchase a version that allows for simultaneous charging.



The protection mechanism is not related to the replaceable battery design.  We need to have the protection mechanism in place because the four pieces of 18650 batteries are connected as a +8.4V and -8.4V power supply for the amplification circuit and introduced an Audio Ground that is independent from the Charger Ground.

I hope this will help us to understand the protection mechanism and preferred charging practise of C9.  I'll add more explanation if there are new issues arise related these topics.


----------



## DaYooper

Andykong said:


> protection mechanism and preferred charging practise of C9


Gee, follow the instructions? What's the problem?


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

So11rek said:


> I tried several options, but now I think the c9 is best suited for neutral dap / dac with high sound resolution and great detail possibilities. Warm and smooth DAPs / DACs fits poorly, imo. I use P6 pro + C9 with both UM Mest and Empyrean. After a while I finally found the perfect combination for myself.


This is probably why the C9 pairs so well with the Hugo 2.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

DaYooper said:


> Gee, follow the instructions? What's the problem?


Not everyone reads the instructions.   Products need to be made to be idiot proof.    Some products like my Hiby R6 2020 don't even have an owner's manual.


----------



## DaYooper

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Not everyone reads the instructions.   Products need to be made to be idiot proof.    Some products like my Hiby R6 2020 don't even have an owner's manual.


LOL, sounds like every mechanic I ever worked with. I think their problems were related to testosterone poisoning though. It only took me about a year to figure out I was NOT smarter than the shop manual.


----------



## Whitigir

DaYooper said:


> LOL, sounds like every mechanic I ever worked with. I think their problems were related to testosterone poisoning though. It only took me about a year to figure out I was NOT smarter than the shop manual.


Actually, Mechanic principal rule of thumbs is .... wait for it.....

*Read the Manual and follow the manual *


----------



## Joseph Lin

Tanalasta said:


> Fabulous.
> 
> I have a feeling Hugo2/2Go or SP2000 -> C9 with my Utopia, Empyrean, HD800S and Trailli will be a very fine time indeed. I can't wait for it to arrive.


How do you compare Utopia and Empyrean out of C9? If you can keep one only, which one will you keep?


----------



## Joseph Lin (May 7, 2021)

Repeated, sorry.


----------



## So11rek

Joseph Lin said:


> How do you compare Utopia and Empyrean out of C9? If you can keep one only, which one will you keep?


In my opinion It is almost impossible to directly compare utopia vs empyrean, due to the difference in sound signature


----------



## So11rek (May 7, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> This is probably why the C9 pairs so well with the Hugo 2.


I call it magic, because I do not really like the L&P P6 pro or Hugo 2 as a standalone device, but in combination with the C9 it becomes an end game set-up


----------



## CANiSLAYu

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Not everyone reads the instructions.   Products need to be made to be idiot proof.    Some products like my Hiby R6 2020 don't even have an owner's manual.



R6 2020 Manual


----------



## fiascogarcia

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Not everyone reads the instructions.   Products need to be made to be idiot proof.    Some products like my Hiby R6 2020 don't even have an owner's manual.


Manuals? Manuals?  We don't need no stinking manuals!


----------



## RTodd

fiascogarcia said:


> Manuals? Manuals?  We don't need no stinking manuals!


Funny, I was just combing through mine.


----------



## bluestorm1992

@RTodd better to echo your C9 comments here instead of in the Traillii thread. Lol

If you use some 3500 mAh batteries, you can theoretically extend the battery life for a solid hour. Vince recommends the following but it is mostly sold out ATM. I will keep an eye on it and report here when they had the stock back.

https://www.orbtronic.com/3500mah-18650-imr-battery-high-drain-rechargeable-orbtronic-li-ion


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

CANiSLAYu said:


> R6 2020 Manual


Have you read it?   It's crap.


----------



## RTodd

bluestorm1992 said:


> @RTodd better to echo your C9 comments here instead of in the Traillii thread. Lol
> 
> If you use some 3500 mAh batteries, you can theoretically extend the battery life for a solid hour. Vince recommends the following but it is mostly sold out ATM. I will keep an eye on it and report here when they had the stock back.
> 
> https://www.orbtronic.com/3500mah-18650-imr-battery-high-drain-rechargeable-orbtronic-li-ion


Like asking for a hit on 14. That would be taking someone’s card.

In too many threads at the same time, and I get confused easily.

Yes, replacing batteries is a good idea, an hour would help  a lot in my case.


----------



## bluestorm1992

RTodd said:


> Like asking for a hit on 14. That would be taking someone’s card.
> 
> In too many threads at the same time, and I get confused easily.
> 
> Yes, replacing batteries is a good idea, an hour would help  a lot in my case.


This is also recommended by @cheznous as an alternative to stock Sony batteries. Added an extra hour and without altering the sound signature.

I just ordered a set myself and will see how they perform.

https://mabdelectronics.com/product...w1kmVc0oY_9CUzOhljPA4uyI7cMHuUjgaArLBEALw_wcB


----------



## Kiats

Tanalasta said:


> Any hints on a May announcement?
> My hesitation with the C9 is really that I need a desktop solution. But finally found an Australian distributor (who hasn’t replied). Wish there was a digital in.


If you want a more desktop solution, perhaps you can ponder the Shanling M30. Lotsa flexibility and options with that one. Only question is whether you like the sound signature. But it does have 3 options to choose from: bypass, resistor or tube.


----------



## Tanalasta (May 7, 2021)

Kiats said:


> If you want a more desktop solution, perhaps you can ponder the Shanling M30. Lotsa flexibility and options with that one. Only question is whether you like the sound signature. But it does have 3 options to choose from: bypass, resistor or tube.


Looking for something with the sound signature of the DCS Bartok. But with the footprint of a Moon 230 or Topping A90. Don’t need the fancy DAC or network streamer as can connect the Hugo2/2Go to it.

Don’t ask for much do I? If the C9 will do the trick I’ll be a happy camper. Distributor has to order in stock so it’s a 2 week wait!

Trailli and SP2K comes close


----------



## Tanalasta

xand said:


> Actually what I think it might be fun to do is to listen to the C9 in preamp mode out of a Naim Atom... The Atom kinda sucks as a headphone source because the built-in headphone amp is not great, and it cannot do a line output - but the C9's preamp mode kinda solves that.
> 
> I really don't want to be tempted to buy an Atom though, so I will not be doing that demo.
> 
> However, I'm just leaving this here in case someone else wants to consider it...



I would wait and see whether they update their unit. The Naim is a fantastic 'all in one' on paper and really needs a decent Headphone Amp. 

What tier of desktop amp would the C9 compare to? I suppose for easy to drive IEM's and headphones (e.g. Utopia ; Stellia) the C9 should have more than enough headroom.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (May 8, 2021)

I removed the screws from the C9 and put then into a protective case for storage in my C9 bag along with the screw driver.   The C9 case holds the battery tray in place very nicely as it sits in the back.    This will make changing the batteries a lot easier.  I am going to try this for a while to see what happens.    Anyone see any big negatives to operating the C9 in this way?


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I removed the screws from the C9 and put then into a protective case for storage in my C9 bag along with the screw driver.   The C9 case holds the battery tray in place very nicely as it sits in the back.    This will make changing the batteries a lot easier.  I am going to try this for a while to see what happens.    Anyone see any big negatives to operating the C9 in this way?


Seems to me like a great solution


----------



## ian91 (May 8, 2021)

Just some initial impressions from a few hours with my new purchase of the C9, paired with the Shanling M8:

Line in vs Pre (Tube/Class A) 

Pre – warmer, less detail esp in harmonics and tonal nuance, mild hiss

Line – cooler, larger & deeper stage, more detail, blacker background

My preference with M8: Line out mode, Low gain (M8), Low gain (C9) - _line in to C9 is a clear winner. _

Timbre/Amp

Class A/B – impact, Class A – less aggressive

Tube – more transparent & forward mids, slower attack – greater decay

SS – balanced presentation

Tonal accuracy hard to choose, Tubes have slight advantage

My preference with M8: Tube / Class A for the majority of my music

Shanling M8 (high gain) + MEST MK2 vs Shanling M8 LO mode (low gain) – Cayin C9 (Tube/A/low gain) + MEST MK2 

With C9

Bass tighter, reaches deeper
Mids brought forward (towards my preferred signature!)
Deeper & more spherical staging
Greater transparency
_Possibly_ blacker background (may be due to the deeper staging and tighter dynamics giving the impression of greater contrast?)
Without C9

Looser macrodynamics / ‘smoother’ presentation
Mids lacking body (for my preference)
Shallower & less spherical stage / greater intimacy
Less detail (but not necessarily in a bad way at times; can make for easier listening)
Less transparent

Overall, several steps up for both the 3DT + MESTMK2. My concern prior to purchase was producing a warm-on-warm signature that would detract from things (due to a lack of true LO on the M8). While we all have our preferences and point at which things may become ‘too warm’, I certainly haven’t reached that point – thankfully! In fact, there was an almost immediate appreciation that things sounded less congested, more transparent and more detailed with the C9 which, I feel, has offset any cumulative effect of double amp’ing in this scenario that could risk warming things too far.

What’s clear in the few hours of listening is that the line in (and line in mode on the M8) is superior in presenting the technical ability of the IEM when compared to the preamp function. For those pairing M8’s, ensure that when you switch to line out mode that you then alter the gain to low gain as it defaults to ‘turbo’.

Another point is that my MEST MK2 has seemed to benefit more from this upgrade than the cheaper 3DT, likely because the C9 helps it work to its strengths, seeing an improvement in technicalities which were clearly hamstrung to a degree with M8 alone.

Obviously take my initial impressions with a pinch of salt, but its all good so far! Thanks for all the help and advice along the way guys.


----------



## bluestorm1992

ian91 said:


> Just some initial impressions from a few hours with my new purchase of the C9, paired with the Shanling M8:
> 
> Line in vs Pre (Tube/Class A)
> 
> ...


Congrats! Glad to know that you enjoy it!

I am also thinking to try the M8.


----------



## ian91

bluestorm1992 said:


> Congrats! Glad to know that you enjoy it!
> 
> I am also thinking to try the M8.


Thanks man. Certainly don't regret the purchase.

The M8 is great, it really is, even without the C9 it has a character to it, as if its trying to seduce you! It definitely isn't a clinical listen.


----------



## bluestorm1992

ian91 said:


> Thanks man. Certainly don't regret the purchase.
> 
> The M8 is great, it really is, even without the C9 it has a character to it, as if its trying to seduce you! It definitely isn't a clinical listen.


Indeed. My current SP2000 is clean but a bit clinical. Want to try out something new.


----------



## FooFighter (May 8, 2021)

Any Elysium impressions with C9 and M8?
That'll be possibly some trigger for me after the positive MEST MKII review though I still cannot help thinking: what if I saved all that money to get a Traillii right away...


----------



## ian91

FooFighter said:


> Any Elysium impressions with C9 and M8?
> That'll be possibly some trigger for me after the positive MEST MKII review though I still cannot help thinking: what if I saved all that money to get a Traillii right away...


That's a tough one mate.  Traillii with M8 would probably be incredible. Maybe get the 3DT to compliment the MK2 and save for the Traillii? 3DT has some of the lovely DD mids.. .

I highly recommend 3DT with the M8 to compliment the MK2.


----------



## FooFighter

Anyway yet got a used Elysium but won't be able to listen before coming back home in 1 week


----------



## bluestorm1992

FooFighter said:


> Anyway yet got a used Elysium but won't be able to listen before coming back home in 1 week


I would say to gradually walk you way up is a good idea. Start with Elysium and (hopefully) enjoy it for some period of time first.  Going directly to Traillii is both a huge financial investment and also would destroy all other IEMs for you.


----------



## ian91

bluestorm1992 said:


> I would say to gradually walk you way up is a good idea. Start with Elysium and (hopefully) enjoy it for some period of time first.  Going directly to Traillii is both a huge financial investment and also would destroy all other IEMs for you.



As you've already secured an elysium, I would agree with this. Sit back and enjoy some music with what will be a damn fine setup.


----------



## FooFighter

Anyway didn't want to spam C9 thread but the thought is striking and discussable Imho 
a) get a C9 and bring your IEMs closer to Traillii level 
b) get a L&P W2 and connect a Traillii and get the same experience if not better thus saving lots of bucks previously spent on DAPs and amps...

I am just painting the scenario black-white here for the sake of discussion without ever having listened to either C9 or Traillii...


----------



## RTodd

FooFighter said:


> Anyway didn't want to spam C9 thread but the thought is striking and discussable Imho
> a) get a C9 and bring your IEMs closer to Traillii level
> b) get a L&P W2 and connect a Traillii and get the same experience if not better thus saving lots of bucks previously spent on DAPs and amps...
> 
> I am just painting the scenario black-white here for the sake of discussion without ever having listened to either C9 or Traillii...


That is logical, though it is definitely not black and white because of preferences.


----------



## FooFighter

RTodd said:


> That is logical, though it is definitely not black and white because of preferences.


Didn't want to put the flashlight on you but I think you belong to the limited audience who can actually comment my statement as you re owning the mentioned devices...


----------



## RTodd

bluestorm1992 said:


> Going directly to Traillii is both a huge financial investment and also would destroy all other IEMs for you.


Kind of wish this had been true for me.
I am listening daily to three IEMs so Traillii did not kill everything else in my case. I found it needed partners.


----------



## ian91

RTodd said:


> That is logical, though it is definitely not black and white because of preferences.



Indeed. Also, I think the C9 is a good value proposition to have on your audio journey.  And scenario 2) assumes you stop at the Traillii and never have an interest in further purchases in future.


----------



## RTodd (May 8, 2021)

FooFighter said:


> Didn't want to put the flashlight on you but I think you belong to the limited audience who can actually comment my statement as you re owning the mentioned devices...


I have S1s I gave to two of my kids, but not W2, the rest yes.


----------



## Andykong

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I removed the screws from the C9 and put then into a protective case for storage in my C9 bag along with the screw driver.   The C9 case holds the battery tray in place very nicely as it sits in the back.    This will make changing the batteries a lot easier.  I am going to try this for a while to see what happens.    Anyone see any big negatives to operating the C9 in this way?



I have been doing that since I receive my C9 case.  Just make sure you switch off the C9 before  you pull it out from the case, once you developed this habit, it is quite safe to use C9 without the two screws that lock the battery module.


----------



## aaf evo

FooFighter said:


> Anyway didn't want to spam C9 thread but the thought is striking and discussable Imho
> a) get a C9 and bring your IEMs closer to Traillii level
> b) get a L&P W2 and connect a Traillii and get the same experience if not better thus saving lots of bucks previously spent on DAPs and amps...
> 
> I am just painting the scenario black-white here for the sake of discussion without ever having listened to either C9 or Traillii...



@tawmizzzz can help here


----------



## RTodd

ian91 said:


> Indeed. Also, I think the C9 is a good value proposition to have on your audio journey.  And scenario 2) assumes you stop at the Traillii and never have an interest in further purchases in future.


You could just have the Traillii and be very happy. Just have to select 1 pairing and your all set. And if I had a $7,000 budget and had to live within that, it would be very close to as good as it gets. I would pair with PAW6K, and call it done, I am sure Andrew could meet that 7K or a little less for you.

I would than miss out on M8 and Elysium
P6P and Traillii
PAW6K and C9 with Thummim

This is the three every day pairings for me.
They are significantly different sounding. 
And all amazing in their own way.

These pairings are all very personal choices, so by no means should anyone think to simply copy any of them, it took me trying lots of things before arriving at this. And to be honest I am still new to this and have not tried as much as many of you have, even amongst what I have I have not tried everything with everything else. 
So take it at face value please.


----------



## 425455

RTodd said:


> Kind of wish this had been true for me.


It kind of was true for me - I was lurking here umming and ahhing about the Trailli for a while a month or so back.

But seeing as I've never had a headphone amp/headphone before thought I'd spend my Trailli money on a TOTL amp/hp instead.

Skipped a bunch of headphones and amps I think and I'm very pleased with the result.

But I am an impatient sort.


----------



## RTodd

drlorks said:


> It kind of was true for me - I was lurking here umming and ahhing about the Trailli for a while a month or so back.
> 
> But seeing as I've never had a headphone amp/headphone before thought I'd spend my Trailli money on a TOTL amp/hp instead.
> 
> ...


Confused a little bit, I read this a couple times.
You are using headphone not IEM correct?
Cannot tell from your signature?
Are you saying you used the money you could have spent on a Traillii and purchased a high end desk top amp instead?

What are you impatiently waiting for?


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

ian91 said:


> Just some initial impressions from a few hours with my new purchase of the C9, paired with the Shanling M8:
> 
> Line in vs Pre (Tube/Class A)
> 
> ...


Nice review.    I have a UM 3DT and I observed the same thing.  The UM 3DT did not improve much with the C9.   It's already optimized for what it can do with lower tier sources.


----------



## FooFighter (May 8, 2021)

Staying with my initial post what I find amazing is that C9 can actually scale IEMs up in order to come to a Traillii level with their own signatures and in these areas even surpass it such as Thummim + C9 (just speculating as I haven't listened myself).
For some it works better than others (see: 3dt)
So actually I want to get a feeling of where money is invested in a future proof way and at the same time come to a maximum possible listening experience.
I guess that's something many of us are after right?

Edit: what I am starting to understand is that Traillii is maybe the best Allrounder there is but not surpassing the best IEMs in their specific categories.
That possibility to taste different flavours scaled to their maximum capabilities is I guess a strong argument for C9


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

RTodd said:


> Kind of wish this had been true for me.
> I am listening daily to three IEMs so Traillii did not kill everything else in my case. I found it needed partners.


I am the same way.   I like different experiences.   No matter how good the Traillii is, I will want to enjoy something else with it.   It's like having a favorite restaurant.    I don't want to go there every day as variety is important.  But, when I am there, It's a total treat.    This is probably the main reason I didn't get the Traillii yet.  If I got it now, I would have to forgo other options for a longer while.   I am not ready to do that yet.   Ironically, I have crossed the threshold of wanting one now.   I think I will own one sooner or later, just not right now.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (May 8, 2021)

FooFighter said:


> Staying with my initial post what I find amazing is that C9 can actually scale IEMs up in order to come to a Traillii level with their own signatures and in these areas even surpass it such as Thummim + C9 (just speculating as I haven't listened myself).
> For some it works better than others (see: 3dt)
> So actually I want to get a feeling of where money is invested in a future proof way and at the same time come to a maximum possible listening experience.
> I guess that's something many of us are after right?


Quality is not linear.    In other words, in audio, products don't get a number representing its quality and if one product has a higher number, that means it's better than another product with a lower number.    IEMs and Headphones have many dimensions.   Usability, fit, comfort, beauty are all important dimensions as well.   Even within sound, there are many dimensions such as sound stage, resolution, detail retrieval,  macro and micro dynamics, timbre, etc  and no headphone or IEM can be better than all other choices in every dimension.    So, I don't think of levels the way you are thinking about it.

What I can say is that the C9 improves every product I've paired with it. Some more than others.    The biggest thing it has done is made my IEMs sound more like my full sized headphones to the point that I don't miss them anymore.  In fact, I feel that I am losing isolation when I put on the full sized cans.    I think with the C9, I could almost live without full sized headphones.   I may not travel with them anymore and use them only at home.


----------



## RTodd

FooFighter said:


> Staying with my initial post what I find amazing is that C9 can actually scale IEMs up in order to come to a Traillii level with their own signatures and in these areas even surpass it such as Thummim + C9 (just speculating as I haven't listened myself).
> For some it works better than others (see: 3dt)
> So actually I want to get a feeling of where money is invested in a future proof way and at the same time come to a maximum possible listening experience.
> I guess that's something many of us are after right?


Okay clarify my earlier comments Thummim with C9 is no match for Traillii with P6PRO that is what my ears tell me. My heart on the other hand is much more engaged with the former. Hope that makes sense.


----------



## FooFighter

RTodd said:


> Okay clarify my earlier comments Thummim with C9 is no match for Traillii with P6PRO that is what my ears tell me. My heart on the other hand is much more engaged with the former. Hope that makes sense.


😂not making decisions easier


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Quality is not linear.    In other words, in audio, products don't get a number representing its quality and if one product has a higher number, that means it's better than another product with a lower number.    IEMs and Headphones have many dimensions.   Usability, fit, comfort, beauty are all important dimensions as well.   Even within sound, there are many dimensions such as sound stage, resolution, detail retrieval,  macro and micro dynamics, timbre, etc  and no headphone or IEM can be better than all other choices in every dimension.    So, I don't think of levels the way you are thinking about it.
> 
> What I can say is that the C9 improves every product I've paired with it. Some more than others.    The biggest thing it has done is made my IEMs sound more like my full sized headphones to the point that I don't miss them anymore.  In fact, I feel that I am losing isolation when I put on the full sized cans.    I think with the C9, I would almost live without full sized headphones.   I may not travel with them anymore and use them only at home.


Same for me... No finding full-size cans too much better now while losing that convenience.


----------



## 425455

RTodd said:


> Confused a little bit, I read this a couple times.
> You are using headphone not IEM correct?
> Cannot tell from your signature?
> Are you saying you used the money you could have spent on a Traillii and purchased a high end desk top amp instead?
> ...


Sorry for not being clearer...

I've been on the iem upgrade path for a while so I thought a change is as good as a rest.

So instead of buying a trailli + amp I bought a t+a ha200 amp and their solitaire p hp. 

I've never had cans before.  

Using my cans and iems every day.


----------



## RTodd

FooFighter said:


> 😂not making decisions easier


Yep, you have to hear it that is the only way, I have tried Odin and LX both five times now, and I still do not hear what other people do, and I feel like I am alone in that inability to appreciate them.

Is C9 worth it, is Traillii worth it, I think on both of those we can say with a very high degree of certainty, for anyone thinking about them yes, do it if you can.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Speaking of the fun after getting C9, I am now starting to explore 1DD IEMs as they work EXTREMELY WELL with C9's power and timbre.

SK from Final x Dita on the way from Andrew.


----------



## RTodd

bluestorm1992 said:


> Speaking of the fun after getting C9, I am now starting to explore 1DD IEMs as they work EXTREMELY WELL with C9's power and timbre.
> 
> SK from Final x Dita on the way from Andrew.


Awesome, patiently waiting on your assessment. Sound profile, and is that cable serviceable?


----------



## bluestorm1992

RTodd said:


> Awesome, patiently waiting on your assessment. Sound profile, and is that cable serviceable?


I don’t think so... I have a OG Oslo cable and will probably just swap that in. Will also get an adaptor for my Iliad to try out the pairing. If it works, I will send it to @Eric Chong for a retermination. Gold cable + gold faceplate IEM.


----------



## RTodd

FooFighter said:


> Edit: what I am starting to understand is that Traillii is maybe the best Allrounder there is but not surpassing the best IEMs in their specific categories.
> That possibility to taste different flavours scaled to their maximum capabilities is I guess a strong argument for C9


+1


----------



## ian91 (May 8, 2021)

Totally feel the same where headphones are concerned. My Arya gets very little air time now. It's a bit of a shame as it's a very good headphone, but I just get so much more from both my IEMs.

Also, the fact the 3DT doesn't improve to the degree the MK2 does just shows what a stellar job they did with the 3DT. I'm seeing a cleaner performance from the 3DT out of the C9. The note weight is better and tonality is still on point.

As other posters have commented - the leather case does a great job taking some of the heat away from the case into its metal frame. Very happy camper right now .


----------



## bluestorm1992

FooFighter said:


> Staying with my initial post what I find amazing is that C9 can actually scale IEMs up in order to come to a Traillii level with their own signatures and in these areas even surpass it such as Thummim + C9 (just speculating as I haven't listened myself).
> For some it works better than others (see: 3dt)
> So actually I want to get a feeling of where money is invested in a future proof way and at the same time come to a maximum possible listening experience.
> I guess that's something many of us are after right?
> ...


Yes, I came to the same conclusion in my Traillii review regarding Traillii being an excellent all rounder, but you can find IEMs that surpass it in a specific category.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/oriolus-traillii-jp.24343/reviews#review-25433


----------



## RTodd

My audio universe


----------



## tawmizzzz

FooFighter said:


> Anyway didn't want to spam C9 thread but the thought is striking and discussable Imho
> a) get a C9 and bring your IEMs closer to Traillii level
> b) get a L&P W2 and connect a Traillii and get the same experience if not better thus saving lots of bucks previously spent on DAPs and amps...
> 
> I am just painting the scenario black-white here for the sake of discussion without ever having listened to either C9 or Traillii...


Not sure which other IEMs you have, but Option B for me all day (as I’m mostly a 1-2 IEM only guy). Traillii, as mentioned, pairs well with just about everything. C9 pairing is incredibly technical but to my ears, at expense of musicality due to such large staging.

Traillii + w2 is better than any other pairing I’ve heard with other TOTL IEMs with TOTL DAPs (e.g; Inf2/Odin with R8 or Thummim with R8)-Traillii is so technical by nature that the more forward upper mids and subbass from W2, while retaining summit-fi layering and detail/staging makes it an ideal balance of enjoyment while still in a league of itself. The C9 did wonders for my Elixir and played nicely off pre-amp with Infinity 2, but still doesn’t touch T + W2. 

I also agree Traillii is the best all-rounder but that doesn’t do it full justice. It’s still the best treble and bass I’ve heard to date, and top 3-4 in mids, so specialists in some regards and still great versatility for a “safe” option.

Not sure if that’s what your question was but hope it helps lol


----------



## Tanalasta

Comments on Dap -> C9 and full sized cans?


----------



## fuhransahis (May 8, 2021)

Tanalasta said:


> Comments on Dap -> C9 and full sized cans?


Pairs excellently with the DX300 and Empyrean! Can imagine it'll only be better with the DX300's dedicated LO module that'll hopefully be released soon.

Best part of C9 is its versatility, where you can tweak to suit your your tastes and mood.


----------



## DaYooper

My own little bit of the universe


----------



## Rockwell75

This C9 is starting to seem very tempting...I'm wondering what sort of magic it may work with my Elysium and M8.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (May 8, 2021)

Rockwell75 said:


> This C9 is starting to seem very tempting...I'm wondering what sort of magic it may work with my Elysium and M8.


There was a new user @ian91 with M8 reporting just a couple pages back.

Edit: @fiascogarcia uses 1Z + C9 + Elysium.


----------



## Zambu

bluestorm1992 said:


> Speaking of the fun after getting C9, I am now starting to explore 1DD IEMs as they work EXTREMELY WELL with C9's power and timbre.
> 
> SK from Final x Dita on the way from Andrew.


That's nice since I was planning for my next IEM purchase to be 1DD even before getting C9. But that might go until autumn or early next year... something within a 500-1000$ budget most likely.


----------



## RTodd

bluestorm1992 said:


> There was a new user @ian91 with M8 reporting just a couple pages back.
> 
> Edit: @fiascogarcia uses 1Z + C9 + Elysium.


I need to try that for you @Rockwell75, sorry I am so slow to do it. It is going to be interesting as M8 Ely already ++Aces. Maybe it will add some bass? 
I question my ability to hear low frequency bass though.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Andykong said:


> I have been doing that since I receive my C9 case.  Just make sure you switch off the C9 before  you pull it out from the case, once you developed this habit, it is quite safe to use C9 without the two screws that lock the battery module.


Awesome.   Now I have double the battery capacity and I don't have any charging problems with the C9.    My DAP is the problem now.   I don't want to plug it in while listening because I want to be able to get up and walk around untethered.    Also, I don't want to use my DX160 because it doesn't have line out and I risk blowing my ears out by not turning the volume down.    Might need to get another DAP.   Haha.    We audiophiles come up with every excuse in the book to by more gear.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Rockwell75 said:


> This C9 is starting to seem very tempting...I'm wondering what sort of magic it may work with my Elysium and M8.


Once you get the C9 and start listening to your IEMs with it, taking it away is like giving up your Queen in a game of chess before the start of the game to your opponent.    I think the C9 is the most important component in an IEM chain because it makes everything sound better.   If you have a C9, you don't need a high end DAP.   Midfi DAP is sufficient for TOTL sound.   But, it can also make your TOTL DAP sound even better.   It makes a Hugo 2 sound better.


----------



## Rockwell75

RTodd said:


> I need to try that for you @Rockwell75, sorry I am so slow to do it. It is going to be interesting as M8 Ely already ++Aces. Maybe it will add some bass?
> I question my ability to hear low frequency bass though.





HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Once you get the C9 and start listening to your IEMs with it, taking it away is like giving up your Queen in a game of chess before the start of the game to your opponent.    I think the C9 is the most important component in an IEM chain because it makes everything sound better.   If you have a C9, you don't need a high end DAP.   Midfi DAP is sufficient for TOTL sound.   But, it can also make your TOTL DAP sound even better.   It makes a Hugo 2 sound better.



I'm curious to hear the C9 but it's really a crazy thing to consider given how little of my listening is done while I'm stationary.  The Shanling M8 is presently the upper limit of what I'd really consider pocketable/portable...but it would still be nice to have an option like the C9 around the house "just because".  I wonder how much it could really add to M8 + Elysium.  The thing that always gets me at this point that my search is no longer about ironing out imperfections in what I have-- Ely + M8 leaves nothing to be desired to me while I'm listening to it...so I know that I could be totally happy without adding anything to it.  It's more about tweaks and refinements at this point.  Heck in the past few days I've had nothing but a Andro 2020 and my M8 and that pairing has left me wanting nothing...if society collapsed tomorrow and all I had was what I have on me now audio wise I'd be just fine.  This just serves to emphasize the power of curiosity and love of variety that characterizes this hobby.


----------



## Tanalasta (May 9, 2021)

Rockwell75 said:


> .  Heck in the past few days I've had nothing but a Andro 2020 and my M8 and that pairing has left me wanting nothing...if society collapsed tomorrow and all I had was what I have on me now audio wise I'd be just fine.  This just serves to emphasize the power of curiosity and love of variety that characterizes this hobby.


I’d be interested to see how the C9 improves the Andro2020 out of a SP2000.
Listening to this pairing without the c9 now and just posted on the Trailii thread. The detail, layering, airy separation, accurate bass and treble extension are a significant step up on the bird. In comparison my andromeda’s sound muddy and congested which are not adjectives usually associated with the Andro.
Listening to Sarah Alainn. Now we are free.
Edit: I am aware of the entirely different price tier


----------



## Andykong

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Awesome.   Now I have double the battery capacity and I don't have any charging problems with the C9.    My DAP is the problem now.   I don't want to plug it in while listening because I want to be able to get up and walk around untethered.    Also, I don't want to use my DX160 because it doesn't have line out and I risk blowing my ears out by not turning the volume down.    Might need to get another DAP.   Haha.    We audiophiles come up with every excuse in the book to by more gear.



If you are after true balanced line out, the choice is limited, and most of them are using premium DAC that consumes battery like I drink Coke in the hot summer day, even with line out.


----------



## Rockwell75 (May 9, 2021)

Tanalasta said:


> I’d be interested to see how the C9 improves the Andro2020 out of a SP2000.
> Listening to this pairing without the c9 now and just posted on the Trailii thread. The detail, layering, airy separation, accurate bass and treble extension are a significant step up on the bird. In comparison my andromeda’s sound muddy and congested which are not adjectives usually associated with the Andro.
> Listening to Sarah Alainn. Now we are free.



Andromeda sounds divine out of the M8-- it's like a super charged PAW S1 with the same inky black background.  I've heard from a few that tube sources synergize very well with Andro and on that account I've also been eyeing Cayin's n3pro (that comes with an Andro green case no less) as a portable source.

Edit:  Also-- do you still find yourself listening to Andro given that it has to compete with the almighty Bird for your time?  I would have thought that the Andromeda is one IEM that the Trailli would render totally redundant.  It would add a notable spring to my step to hear that's not the case, however.


----------



## Tanalasta (May 9, 2021)

Andykong said:


> If you are after true balanced line out, the choice is limited, and most of them are using premium DAC that consumes battery like I drink Coke in the hot summer day, even with line out.



I’m sure a few people at a desktop just use a portable power bank. I do - have an Anker 20000mAH with an USB-A to multi-adapter to charge anything from the Hugo to my SP2000.

I don’t use the USB-C on my powerbank as at 60W I don’t trust the power management not to fry anything.

edit- yes the Andro is now redundant. It’s not even a competition. I use it mostly in bed or when I cannot be bothered delicately extricating the bird from the Van Nuys case and putting it away again. I wouldn’t want my toddler finding them in the morning.


----------



## Rockwell75

Tanalasta said:


> I wouldn’t want my toddler finding them in the morning.



I don't even have kids but that thought gave me a cold shudder.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Andykong said:


> If you are after true balanced line out, the choice is limited, and most of them are using premium DAC that consumes battery like I drink Coke in the hot summer day, even with line out.


Well, you convinced me that I need a true balanced line out, so that is what I am going to get.   I'll wait to see what Cayin releases and then make a choice.    I like the iBasso sound, so the DX300 with the upcoming line out feature is the front runner right now.   I would love to see you knock them out of contention.


----------



## Rockwell75

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Well, you convinced me that I need a true balanced line out, so that is what I am going to get.   I'll wait to see what Cayin releases and then make a choice.    I like the iBasso sound, so the DX300 with the upcoming line out feature is the front runner right now.   I would love to see you knock them out of contention.



The n6ii + A02 is rumoured to be one of the best pure line outs in the game


----------



## Tanalasta

Rockwell75 said:


> I don't even have kids but that thought gave me a cold shudder.


She found my andro’s one morning on the bedside table. Thankfully on an extensive listen they’re fine …


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (May 9, 2021)

Rockwell75 said:


> I'm curious to hear the C9 but it's really a crazy thing to consider given how little of my listening is done while I'm stationary.  The Shanling M8 is presently the upper limit of what I'd really consider pocketable/portable...but it would still be nice to have an option like the C9 around the house "just because".  I wonder how much it could really add to M8 + Elysium.  The thing that always gets me at this point that my search is no longer about ironing out imperfections in what I have-- Ely + M8 leaves nothing to be desired to me while I'm listening to it...so I know that I could be totally happy without adding anything to it.  It's more about tweaks and refinements at this point.  Heck in the past few days I've had nothing but a Andro 2020 and my M8 and that pairing has left me wanting nothing...if society collapsed tomorrow and all I had was what I have on me now audio wise I'd be just fine.  This just serves to emphasize the power of curiosity and love of variety that characterizes this hobby.


The C9 + R6 2020 is pretty easy to carry around the house in one hand.   This is very convenient and provides an untethered use case.   You can also put it into a transportable case for listening on the road.   Pictures below show its profile and fit into an IFI Traveller case.

But, what it also does is improves full sized headphone use cases.    I am currently travelling and I brought my monstrous ZMF Verite Closed headphones.    These headphones are very finnicky and do not sound great with most amps.   Even with the Hugo 2 it needs EQ.    I did not like how the VC sounded with a Chord Hugo TT2 (I heard it in a hifi shop so I couldn't equalize them).    The VC sounds best when paired with a tube amp.    The VC Still do not sound that great with the R6 2020 + C9.  But, when I pair the VC with the Hugo 2 + C9, it sounds  fantastic without EQ.      I am running C9 in preamp and Tube timbre mode.    So, Cayin's experience in building tube amps was employed in making the C9 and it really makes a difference to both IEMs and full sized headphones that sound best with tubes.     I think those who haven't spent a lot of time with full sized tube amps don't have as good of an appreciation for this feature of the C9.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Rockwell75 said:


> The n6ii + A02 is rumoured to be one of the best pure line outs in the game


Until Cayin replaces it later this month.   Since the Amp2 has been rumored to be MD.   This is what many think the May surprise is.


----------



## Andykong

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Once you get the C9 and start listening to your IEMs with it, taking it away is like giving up your Queen in a game of chess before the start of the game to your opponent.    I think the C9 is the most important component in an IEM chain because it makes everything sound better.   If you have a C9, you don't need a high end DAP.   Midfi DAP is sufficient for TOTL sound.   But, it can also make your TOTL DAP sound even better.   It makes a Hugo 2 sound better.



Looks like more users start to recognise that the amplifier is the more important in the music playback chain.  We used to believe Digital Audio/DAC is the most important link and run after latest DAC chipset or ask for Dual DAC architecture, C9 thread probably is the only place in HeadFi forum that will encourage Midfi DAP + amplifier over TOTL DAP with better DAC/decoding capability in most cases.


----------



## aaf evo

Andykong said:


> Looks like more users start to recognise that the amplifier is the more important in the music playback chain.  We used to believe Digital Audio/DAC is the most important link and run after latest DAC chipset or ask for Dual DAC architecture, C9 thread probably is the only place in HeadFi forum that will encourage Midfi DAP + amplifier over TOTL DAP with better DAC/decoding capability in most cases.



Not that I consider it mid fi but it’s price places it there… but the Lotoo PAW 6000 + C9 produces the best sound I have heard to date over any standalone DAP.


----------



## Tanalasta

Andykong said:


> Looks like more users start to recognise that the amplifier is the more important in the music playback chain.  We used to believe Digital Audio/DAC is the most important link and run after latest DAC chipset or ask for Dual DAC architecture, C9 thread probably is the only place in HeadFi forum that will encourage Midfi DAP + amplifier over TOTL DAP with better DAC/decoding capability in most cases.


Agreed it’s definitely not the chipset alone but the implementation of the entire source. TOTL DAPs tend to have turned their DAC and headphone internal amp output.

Of course some of us here are pairing TOTL DAPs with C9 and $6000 IEM 

I’m looking forward to seeing how the C9 + Fiio m11 pro compares to the C9 + SP2K when my C9 arrives.

And also if there is much difference between 4.4mm in or 3.5mm in and mixing SE and Balanced input/output?


----------



## Andykong (May 9, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Well, you convinced me that I need a true balanced line out, so that is what I am going to get.   I'll wait to see what Cayin releases and then make a choice.    I like the iBasso sound, so the DX300 with the upcoming line out feature is the front runner right now.   I would love to see you knock them out of contention.





Rockwell75 said:


> The n6ii + A02 is rumoured to be one of the best pure line outs in the game



Unfortunately the A02 is sold out in many countries, and we didn't have any immediate plan to develop a line-out priority DAP solution.  Maybe we'll revisit this topic down the road.  On the other hand, I have explained our thoughts in another thread, we are very ambitious with C9: we want C9 to decouple with N6ii. The C9 must aim at a much larger customer group than N6ii users base in order to reach economic efficiency, Therefore C9 must be marketed as a cross-brand product in order to reach out to its target customers.

For your reference, the product life cycle of Cayin DAP is relatively long when compare to our competitors. It takes 9-15 months of R&D to develop a new DAP in our practise, and then 4-6 weeks to transfer the R&D prototype to a mass manufacturable product (including the time to develop supply chain), and the time required for second part is getting longer and longer because of the global shortage of semiconductor components and logistic delays.  In other word, if we want to develop a new DAP to take advantage of the surprisingly well-received C9,  it won't be available till late 2022. In other word, whatever comes out in next few months, is something we planned all the way back in 2020, or even further back.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Andykong said:


> Unfortunately the A02 is sold out in many countries, and we didn't have any immediate plan to develop a line-out priority DAP solution.  Maybe we'll revisit this topic down the road.  On the other hand, I have explained our thoughts in another thread, we are very ambitious with C9, we want C9 to work well with every DAP brands instead of the perfect to Cayin DAP.
> 
> For your reference, the product life cycle of Cayin DAP is relatively long when compare to our competitors. It takes 9-15 months of R&D to develop a new DAP in our practise, and then 4-6 weeks to transfer the R&D prototype to a mass manufacturable product (including the time to develop supply chain), and the time required for second part is getting longer and longer because of the global shortage of semiconductor components and logistic delays.  In other word, if we want to develop a new DAP to take advantage of the surprisingly well-received C9,  it won't be available till late 2022. In other word, whatever comes out in next few months, is something we planned all the way back in 2020, or even further back.


Thank you.   I finally got you to preannounce news even if it isn't the news I wanted to hear.   I should have been a reporter.    Now I can feel more confident buying the DX300.


----------



## Andykong

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Thank you.   I finally got you to preannounce news even if it isn't the news I wanted to hear.   I should have been a reporter.    Now I can feel more confident buying the DX300.



Well, it's not really preannounce news, more an explanation, and I have updated my response to further clarify my intention to bring up these issues: we want C9 to decouple with N6ii.


----------



## RTodd

Rockwell75 said:


> I'm curious to hear the C9 but it's really a crazy thing to consider given how little of my listening is done while I'm stationary.  The Shanling M8 is presently the upper limit of what I'd really consider pocketable/portable...but it would still be nice to have an option like the C9 around the house "just because".  I wonder how much it could really add to M8 + Elysium.  The thing that always gets me at this point that my search is no longer about ironing out imperfections in what I have-- Ely + M8 leaves nothing to be desired to me while I'm listening to it...so I know that I could be totally happy without adding anything to it.  It's more about tweaks and refinements at this point.  Heck in the past few days I've had nothing but a Andro 2020 and my M8 and that pairing has left me wanting nothing...if society collapsed tomorrow and all I had was what I have on me now audio wise I'd be just fine.  This just serves to emphasize the power of curiosity and love of variety that characterizes this hobby.


Yes I agree, I think I may have a solution for carrying the C9 around and still having hands free. It is a lot to carry though no matter what.

It is transportable though and sitting in my office  and doing administrative stuff, or writing and reading emails it can sit on my desk and I can listen to that extra something.

I took it on the last flights I took and in my Hadley Pro Camera bag it fit no problem, that is a shoulder bag, and small but still larger than you would need. I kept the tunes going in the terminal and during boarding and exiting the planes. Once at my seat and after we reached the altitude I took it out of the bag so it would not overheat. It was fine and not that much extra. For an IEM like Traillii I would not bother, it just does not do much to make that a more engaging experience than it already is. For the Thummim though big difference to my ears.


----------



## Andykong

Tanalasta said:


> Agreed it’s definitely not the chipset alone but the implementation of the entire source. TOTL DAPs tend to have turned their DAC and headphone internal amp output.
> 
> Of course some of us here are pairing TOTL DAPs with C9 and $6000 IEM
> 
> ...



or C9 + M11Pro compares to SP2K, they are in the similar price range in terms of total price?


----------



## RTodd

aaf evo said:


> Not that I consider it mid fi but it’s price places it there… but the Lotoo PAW 6000 + C9 produces the best sound I have heard to date over any standalone DAP.


+1 

Lotoo I think understands that the DAC choice itself and a balanced approach prior to and through the DAC process is not as important as the amplification choices in terms of sound. 
A single DAC chip is good enough, decode in stereo and isolate the channels after they are analog, staying balanced through amplification. From what I hear Lotoo is getting great results with this approach.

If you add the C9 to the PAW6K it may actually achieve as good or really close to as good as its big more expensive brother/s can.


----------



## Andykong

RTodd said:


> +1
> 
> Lotoo I think understands that the DAC choice itself and a balanced approach prior to and through the DAC process is not as important as the amplification choices in terms of sound.
> A single DAC chip is good enough, decode in stereo and isolate the channels after they are analog, staying balanced through amplification. From what I hear Lotoo is getting great results with this approach.
> ...



That's a very good point.    

Just out of curiosity, if we compare PAW6K with N3Pro via 3.5mm line out to C9, how significant the different will be? Given both DAP will use dual AK4493, if we excluded the analog amplification section, will they perform closer to each other?


----------



## bluestorm1992

RTodd said:


> +1
> 
> Lotoo I think understands that the DAC choice itself and a balanced approach prior to and through the DAC process is not as important as the amplification choices in terms of sound.
> A single DAC chip is good enough, decode in stereo and isolate the channels after they are analog, staying balanced through amplification. From what I hear Lotoo is getting great results with this approach.
> ...


To me LP6K + C9 blows away LPGT.  

(Lotoo fanboys don’t throw bricks on me; I used to own Lotoo’s entire product line.)


----------



## gazzington

Andykong said:


> Well, it's not really preannounce news, more an explanation, and I have updated my response to further clarify my intention to bring up these issues: we want C9 to decouple with N6ii.


Lol I totally understand why you would be keen to decouple the c9 from the N6ii but damn it sounds so good


----------



## jwilliamhurst

bluestorm1992 said:


> To me LP6K + C9 blows away LPGT.
> 
> (Lotoo fanboys don’t throw bricks on me; I used to own Lotoo’s entire product line.)


What about LPGT with C9?


----------



## bluestorm1992 (May 9, 2021)

jwilliamhurst said:


> What about LPGT with C9?


The difference may not be too big. Although they use different chips, but I think that the difference in their DAC function would not be huge.

Of course, with LPGT you are getting the extra value of using it as a standalone DAP. It is still a noticeably better standalone DAP compared to 6K.


----------



## jwilliamhurst

bluestorm1992 said:


> The difference may not be too big. Although they use different chips, but I suspect that the difference in their DAC function would not be huge.
> 
> Of course, with LPGT you are getting the extra value of using it as a standalone DAP. It is still a noticeably better standalone DAP compared to 6K.


Thank you! I’m most curious what the c9 will do to my calyx m


----------



## bluestorm1992

jwilliamhurst said:


> Thank you! I’m most curious what the c9 will do to my calyx m


That will be interesting too! I keep hearing good things for the sound of Calyx M, even today.

I have also heard that it is a warm-sounding DAP, so I think the SS mode of C9 may pair better with it; you may also want to try out the pre mode of C9 in this pairing to preserve the sound signature of the Calyx M.


----------



## RTodd (May 9, 2021)

Andykong said:


> That's a very good point.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, if we compare PAW6K with N3Pro via 3.5mm line out to C9, how significant the different will be? Given both DAP will use dual AK4493, if we excluded the analog amplification section, will they perform closer to each other?


What does the Cayin team say about that?
Did they do some testing with competitors DAPs?

With the C9 on the amplification does the DAC generation or dual DAC chips make a difference that we can hear?

Or is it like you hinted at, just a numbers game for marketing purposes, with little actual sonic improvements?

Considering there are more parts to the equation here, and the entire product is designed as a whole, it is difficult to isolate down to DAC and DAC circuit choices, not to mention the quality of the clock being used and the software.


----------



## jwilliamhurst

bluestorm1992 said:


> That will be interesting too! I keep hearing good things for the sound of Calyx M, even today.
> 
> I have also heard that it is a warm-sounding DAP, so I think the SS mode of C9 may pair better with it; you may also want to try out the pre mode of C9 in this pairing to preserve the sound signature of the Calyx M.


It’s a wonderful sounding dap. It is warm but very dynamic. I’ve paired with my schiit lyr 3 hybrid tube amp and it really opened up. So I’m curious what the C9 will do once I get it.
Thank you for that suggestion, I’m excited to try out all the different modes of the C9.


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> I am still curious about L6 Pro line out.  Usually, a “Shared port” toward the headphones output indicates of a “non-dedicated LO”
> 
> Volume attenuations is not any indications of a dedicated line out or not.
> 
> ...



Shared port Headphones/LO is not possible to have a dedicated line out without going through all of the other amplifier components, and that makes it a Pseudo Line Out at most?  Not necessarily.  N8 offers genuine line out form a shared 4.4mm output port.  The circuit "branch" from a buffer after LPF, and then we added a line driver to enhance the line out.

So we can't rule out whether L6Pro has a dedicated line out simply by looking at the port arrangement.


----------



## Andykong

RTodd said:


> What does the Cayin team say about that?
> Did they do some testing with competitors DAPs?



Nope we don't, that what I am curious about that, because I don't know.



RTodd said:


> With the C9 on the amplification does the DAC generation or dual DAC chips make a difference that we can hear?



Yes, when  AK4493 is implemented in mono mode, it will enhance the dynamic and SN Ratio, and these quality are important (and will be amplified) when connect to C9 as source.



RTodd said:


> Or is it like you hinted at, just a numbers game for marketing purposes, with little actual sonic improvements?
> 
> Considering there are more parts to the equation here, and the entire product is designed as a whole, it is difficult to isolate down to DAC and DAC circuit choices, not to mention the quality of the clock being used and the software.



Don't be too sensitive, sometime my audiophile sense will drive me crazy and want to try things out that is way beyond my job.


----------



## RTodd

Andykong said:


> Nope we don't, that what I am curious about that, because I don't know.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Fair enough, at the end of the day all we have to go by is our ears and hearts.


----------



## Whitigir (May 9, 2021)

Andykong said:


> Shared port Headphones/LO is not possible to have a dedicated line out without going through all of the other amplifier components, and that makes it a Pseudo Line Out at most?  Not necessarily.  N8 offers genuine line out form a shared 4.4mm output port.  The circuit "branch" from a buffer after LPF, and then we added a line driver to enhance the line out.
> 
> So we can't rule out whether L6Pro has a dedicated line out simply by looking at the port arrangement.


Definitely agreed, it is just that not everyone would display a schematic like Cayin is doing, which clears a lot of things up.  So I say just go with the logic lol.  I stand corrected too, should have said “Most” and not “impossible”


----------



## SBranson

Headfi enthusiasm strikes again..  I have ordered a C9..  I am very much looking forward to the pairing with my Elysium and M8.


----------



## bluestorm1992

SBranson said:


> Headfi enthusiasm strikes again..  I have ordered a C9..  I am very much looking forward to the pairing with my Elysium and M8.


Congrats! Look forward to your impressions. I am also at the edge of adding M8 to my collection.


----------



## SBranson

I find it hard to believe that the Elysium/M8 pairing could get much better but from all accounts I'm prepared to be stunned..
I may not surface for a week..


----------



## ian91 (May 10, 2021)

SBranson said:


> I find it hard to believe that the Elysium/M8 pairing could get much better but from all accounts I'm prepared to be stunned..
> I may not surface for a week..


Also waiting for your impressions! Be careful with Pre mode, don't want to blow those beauties up!

The 'triple-threat-trio':


----------



## SBranson

ian91 said:


> Also waiting for your impressions! Be careful with Pre mode, don't want to blow those beauties up!
> 
> The 'triple-threat-trio':



Thanks..  I saw your post a few pages back.  I'll be reading the thread more while waiting for it to arrive..


----------



## Andykong

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Until Cayin replaces it later this month.   Since the Amp2 has been rumored to be MD.   This is what many think the May surprise is.



13 May Thur evening (our time)


----------



## Tanalasta

Not long now.

What's the advantage of using Pre-Mode rather than traditional line in?


----------



## jmills8

Tanalasta said:


> Not long now.
> 
> What's the advantage of using Pre-Mode rather than traditional line in?


Test with your ear , not your eyes.


----------



## Tanalasta

jmills8 said:


> Test with your ear , not your eyes.


That's the plan when I get the C9. It hasn't arrived yet. Whether it has to do with differences in gain or a noticeable difference, I will find out.

I am a lot more comfortable running line-out from a DAP/DAC (e.g. Hugo 2/2Go is my plan) than in "pre-mode". My intention with the C9 is that adjusting the Timbre will hopefully make improvements & round out the sound signature synergistically. I'm planning to use the C9 with Utopia ; HD800S and Empyrean rather than IEM's.

Being the same price as the Moon 230HAD ; also plan to do a head-to-head at some point. When time allows.


----------



## Tanalasta

Can I plug an unbalanced or not completely grounded input into the 4.4
Ie. have a PWA adapter from the RCA of the Hugo 2 to a 4.4mm. If I used the 4.4mm interconnect technically the RCA red and white are not balanced so will it short the C9.

I imagine safer to just use the 3.5 mm interconnect


----------



## gazzington

The genius of the c9 is that unlike daps it won’t get out of date. I know whatever dap I’m using, the c9 will make it loads better


----------



## Andykong (May 10, 2021)

ian91 said:


> Just some initial impressions from a few hours with my new purchase of the C9, paired with the Shanling M8:
> 
> Line in vs Pre (Tube/Class A)
> 
> ...



Thank you, and hopefully  you'll like your C9 more today.  The C9 circuit is build with discrete components, it'll take slightly more time to run-in when compare to highly integrated Op-Amp based circuit.

One thing I feel peculiar, I have read a lot of discussion about UM 3DT, but how about QDC Dmagic 3D? It is significantly more expensive the UM 3DT, but at current discounted price from MusicTeck, it is nowhere near expensive when compare to many IEM discussed in this thread.  Let's hope someone will check this out and I have a feeling that C9 will scale this multi-DD earphones very well.


----------



## gazzington

I’ve been using mine with the focal elex this morning. Sounds bloody awesome


----------



## Andykong

Tanalasta said:


> Can I plug an unbalanced or not completely grounded input into the 4.4
> Ie. have a PWA adapter from the RCA of the Hugo 2 to a 4.4mm. If I used the 4.4mm interconnect technically the RCA red and white are not balanced so will it short the C9.
> 
> I imagine safer to just use the 3.5 mm interconnect



The 2RCA to 4.4mm single end to balanced adapter is not recommended for C9.


----------



## ian91

Andykong said:


> Thank you, and hopefully  you'll like your C9 more today.  The C9 circuit is build with discrete components, it'll take slightly more time to run-in when compare to highly integrated Op-Amp based circuit.
> 
> One thing I feel peculiar, I have read a lot of discussion about UM 3DT, but how about QDC Dmagic 3D? It is significantly more expensive the UM 3DT, but at current discounted price from MusicTeck, it is nowhere near expensive when compare to many IEM discussed in this thread.  Let's hope someone will check this out and I have a feeling that C9 will scale this multi-DD earphones very well.



Thank you - I'll put some more hours into it today! 

I did look into the DMagic but I've been so impressed by the 3DT that it hasn't left me wanting much...at least not enough to warrant another purchase. The 3DT does scale probably 30% (very arbitrary number there >.<) with the C9, but it was already so good to begin with, to the extent I would have paid the asking price of the DMagic! The C9 tighten's the performance across the FR. I lean more towards the SS circuit with the 3DT as the natural warmth of the 3DT+C9+M8 needs offsetting slightly.

 Here's to hoping someone in the future can pair the C9 and Dmagic and let us know how it scales.


----------



## RTodd

Tanalasta said:


> Not long now.
> 
> What's the advantage of using Pre-Mode rather than traditional line in?


For the two modes the part you have to be really careful with is realizing which one the DAP or the C9 will adjust volume. The default setting, which is what the C9 will be in every time you power up, the C9 volume control is in the circuit. Depending on your DAP it’s volume control may also be functioning because either that DAP does not have a line out or you kept the DAP set to headphone out.

The questions around double amping, double volume control, you can use your ears to decide, remembering how to control volume is very important to protect your hearing. A good habit to be in is to lower the volume control of the device in control of volume before you put the drivers in or on your ears.


----------



## 111MilesToGo (May 11, 2021)

@Andykong: Thanks for your detailed explanatory posts which go into much more detail than the printed manual.

I‘d like to ask two questions regarding battery care, just to make sure.

1. Is the C9 protected against overcharging, when leaving the charger connected beyond the continuous four lights, e.g. overnight? (C9 most of the time - actually always - switched off when I charge it.)

2. What about deep discharging? At what point does the C9 go off when the battery runs lower and lower while playing? Is it protected against deep discharging?

Item 2 happens every once in a while, especially while burning in. Should I be watching the battery lights while playing? Should I switch it off myself when the last one light starts flashing? That would be an outdated method ...

Thanks for clarifying, even when these questions might have been addressed before. (I read the a.m. posts, but did not exactly find yes/no answers to what I am asking here, maybe I am mistaken.)


----------



## Tanalasta

quick question for owners.

Can I confirm that one can use any of the outputs regardless of input. Ie. If the input is unbalanced 3.5 I can use either of the output jacks


----------



## Zambu

Tanalasta said:


> quick question for owners.
> 
> Can I confirm that one can use any of the outputs regardless of input. Ie. If the input is unbalanced 3.5 I can use either of the output jacks



Yes you can, you can find the technical specs in first post/page 1 (SE-->BAL etc.). 
It's just not an ideal way.


----------



## DaYooper

Tanalasta said:


> quick question for owners.
> 
> Can I confirm that one can use any of the outputs regardless of input. Ie. If the input is unbalanced 3.5 I can use either of the output jacks


Best way to tell is just go ahead and plug in _*your*_ stuff and see how _*you*_ like it.


----------



## Tanalasta (May 11, 2021)

I would - except I’m still waiting on it the distributor hasn’t sent me a tracking number even yet

Have read the first post again - thanks. Explains it very well and the various specs for each combination. The question arises as I'm used to not mixing SE and balanced inputs/outputs.

I’m looking forward to testing this with the SP2000 and Hugo 2 with my IEM and  and comparing it to desktop sized amps in the same price bracket. The Moon 230HAD comes to mind. And my WA11 although I suspect the C9 will be the superior option.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Do we have some 1DD fans here interested in the IE900?


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> Do we have some 1DD fans here interested in the IE900?


It seems interesting.   I'd like to see some reviews first to figure out where it fits in a collection of IEMs.


----------



## bigbeans

I want to order one....

But not sure how it fits in with my collection Dunu Luna, Dunu ZEN, Legend X and the Bird.

Help my rationalize my addiction! haha


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bigbeans said:


> I want to order one....
> 
> But not sure how it fits in with my collection Dunu Luna, Dunu ZEN, Legend X and the Bird.
> 
> Help my rationalize my addiction! haha


And the Fantasy.   I like how the Fantasy looks better.


----------



## bluestorm1992

bigbeans said:


> I want to order one....
> 
> But not sure how it fits in with my collection Dunu Luna, Dunu ZEN, Legend X and the Bird.
> 
> Help my rationalize my addiction! haha


Just saw some comments saying that its bass blows away Odin and M5. Sounds promising. Should be really good with C9.


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> And the Fantasy.   I like how the Fantasy looks better.


Yeah the Fantasy looks real nice. We should ask @Andykong to prioritize us C9 users in the tour!


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (May 11, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> Just saw some comments saying that its bass blows away Odin and M5. Sounds promising. Should be really good with C9.


Okay.   Now I am interested.  I read the review that was posted and it was actually quite meh.

I am a big fan of single or all dynamic driver IEMs.   I own the 3DT and I love it because I love dynamic driver timbre.    I am interested in owning an IEM at the level of Odin with all dynamic drivers.


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Okay.   Now I am interested.  I read the review that was posted and it was actually quite meh.


I will also wait for more review... seems like a controversial product.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> Yeah the Fantasy looks real nice. We should ask @Andykong to prioritize us C9 users in the tour!


We can be all in the same review group.


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> We can be all in the same review group.


Indeed. For many of these 1DD IEMs, with and without C9 makes a huge difference.


----------



## Tanalasta

Single dynamic drivers - are perhaps best made of 40mm of Beryllium in a full sized can 

I’m really looking forward to experimenting with my pseudoDAP (2go/Hugo2) and the C9 with the Utopia. Between the C9 timbre/amp selections and the H2 filters should open up a world of musical options.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (May 11, 2021)

Tanalasta said:


> Single dynamic drivers - are perhaps best made of 40mm of Beryllium in a full sized can
> 
> I’m really looking forward to experimenting with my pseudoDAP (2go/Hugo2) and the C9 with the Utopia. Between the C9 timbre/amp selections and the H2 filters should open up a world of musical options.


I pair my C9 with Hugo 2 and it is a fantastic combination.    For IEMs I prefer pairing the C9 with my Hiby R6 2020 because it better fits the transportable use case.  But, the Hugo 2 + C9 is perfect for my ZMF Verite Closed.    I listened to this pairing last night a 2 am until I fell asleep.   It was so good.   Pre-amp and tube timbre.    I think it will be great with the Utopia.  I just bought a CLEAR OG and should get them next week.  I can't wait for that pairing either.

I also have a 2go at home, but I will more likely pair it with my Bluesound Node 2i at home since it sounds better than the 2go and it supports Tidal connect.


----------



## newworld666

As I have really annoying issues with A&K which is a real pain to use, I am wondering if a Cayin N6II + E02 and C9 can make be more versatile and still as good as Cayin N6II + A02 and C9 ?
It seems easy to get N6II + E02.. But, is the E02 board with a real pre-out comparable to the A02 when connected to the C9 ? or still better to get the A02 Board ?


----------



## bigbeans

newworld666 said:


> As I have really annoying issues with A&K which is a real pain to use, I am wondering if a Cayin N6II + E02 and C9 can make be more versatile and still as good as Cayin N6II + A02 and C9 ?
> It seems easy to get N6II + E02.. But, is the E02 board with a real pre-out comparable to the A02 when connected to the C9 ? or still better to get the A02 Board ?


Since you have N6ii, just get A02. Our friend @Whitigir notes that A02+C9 is Shanling M30 equivalent. Seeing that you can still get A02 (https://hifigo.com/products/cayin-a...herboard-for-n6ii?_pos=2&_sid=f4b448432&_ss=r)

I say it is no brainer to get A02 given performance you can unlock for only 400 bucks compared to several thousand. Also you already have C9, just go for it.


----------



## newworld666

bigbeans said:


> Since you have N6ii, just get A02. Our friend @Whitigir notes that A02+C9 is Shanling M30 equivalent. Seeing that you can still get A02 (https://hifigo.com/products/cayin-a...herboard-for-n6ii?_pos=2&_sid=f4b448432&_ss=r)
> 
> I say it is no brainer to get A02 given performance you can unlock for only 400 bucks compared to several thousand. Also you already have C9, just go for it.


Sorry I don't have the N6II .. I intend to buy the N6II+*E02* and I am wondering if the A02 is still necessary ?
I could see Whitgir is even thinking that N6II+A02+C9 has still some little advantages compared to the M30. But does E02 have the same real line out as A02 ?


----------



## bluestorm1992

newworld666 said:


> Sorry I don't have the N6II .. I intend to buy the N6II+*E02* and I am wondering if the A02 is still necessary ?
> I could see Whitgir is even thinking that N6II+A02+C9 has still some little advantages compared to the M30. But does E02 have the same real line out as A02 ?


E02 does have the true LO. A02 has better LO quality but E02 is also OK.


----------



## bluestorm1992

newworld666 said:


> Sorry I don't have the N6II .. I intend to buy the N6II+*E02* and I am wondering if the A02 is still necessary ?
> I could see Whitgir is even thinking that N6II+A02+C9 has still some little advantages compared to the M30. But does E02 have the same real line out as A02 ?


BTW, wait till Thursday. Cayin may release a new DAP and a N6ii new motherboard.


----------



## bigbeans

bluestorm1992 said:


> BTW, wait till Thursday. Cayin may release a new DAP and a N6ii new motherboard.


Seems like a good time to announce I have a Cayin N6ii and A02 coming my way


----------



## Whitigir

N6 and A02 is damn clean


----------



## greenmac

Better than LPGT ?


----------



## DaYooper

greenmac said:


> Better than LPGT ?


 dunno, I have listened to a lot of DSD files on LPGT-Ti into C9 and I would not call the A02 better than that, but close fer sure.


----------



## soundblast75

Nice additions to the joy that is C9, stand and Oracle


----------



## ian91

soundblast75 said:


> Nice additions to the joy that is C9, stand and Oracle



All you could want on your desk / at your side...! Enjoy.


----------



## Nostoi

File under "unusual pairings." The C9 with the Sony WM-D6C. This is one of the few high-end Sony Walkmans of the classic era with a true line-out (and line-in), so it's perfect for external amps. Sounds surprisingly good - warm and smooth, but with a good sense of dynamics. 

Have to say, listening to the ZMF VC on my old AC/DC, Maiden, Metallica tapes from adolescence is a bit of a thrill. The C9 and D6C are also big beasts, and their dimensions suit each other nicely.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Nostoi said:


> File under "unusual pairings." The C9 with the Sony WM-D6C. This is one of the few high-end Sony Walkmans of the classic era with a true line-out (and line-in), so it's perfect for external amps. Sounds surprisingly good - warm and smooth, but with a good sense of dynamics.
> 
> Have to say, listening to the ZMF VC on my old AC/DC, Maiden, Metallica tapes from adolescence is a bit of a thrill. The C9 and D6C are also big beasts, and their dimensions suit each other nicely.


Wow, thanks for sharing. So classic and beautiful. Mind if I share them with Liang from Cayin?


----------



## jwilliamhurst

Nostoi said:


> File under "unusual pairings." The C9 with the Sony WM-D6C. This is one of the few high-end Sony Walkmans of the classic era with a true line-out (and line-in), so it's perfect for external amps. Sounds surprisingly good - warm and smooth, but with a good sense of dynamics.
> 
> Have to say, listening to the ZMF VC on my old AC/DC, Maiden, Metallica tapes from adolescence is a bit of a thrill. The C9 and D6C are also big beasts, and their dimensions suit each other nicely.


This is Siiiiickkkk!!! So very cool


----------



## RTodd (May 12, 2021)

Nostoi said:


> File under "unusual pairings." The C9 with the Sony WM-D6C. This is one of the few high-end Sony Walkmans of the classic era with a true line-out (and line-in), so it's perfect for external amps. Sounds surprisingly good - warm and smooth, but with a good sense of dynamics.
> 
> Have to say, listening to the ZMF VC on my old AC/DC, Maiden, Metallica tapes from adolescence is a bit of a thrill. The C9 and D6C are also big beasts, and their dimensions suit each other nicely.


So So Cool.
Does it sound real analog?
Extra warm and fuzzy?


----------



## Nostoi

bluestorm1992 said:


> Wow, thanks for sharing. So classic and beautiful. Mind if I share them with Liang from Cayin?


Of course!


----------



## Nostoi

RTodd said:


> So So Cool.
> Does it sound real analog?
> Extra warm and fuzzy?


Absolutely. No two ways about it, there's an intimacy and warmth with tapes you can't get anywhere else. The internal amp of the Sony is also surprisingly powerful, but the line out is so clean it just works super well with the C9. Dang, if only the Sony build quality remained on this level. This thing is a tank.


----------



## soundblast75

Nostoi said:


> File under "unusual pairings." The C9 with the Sony WM-D6C. This is one of the few high-end Sony Walkmans of the classic era with a true line-out (and line-in), so it's perfect for external amps. Sounds surprisingly good - warm and smooth, but with a good sense of dynamics.
> 
> Have to say, listening to the ZMF VC on my old AC/DC, Maiden, Metallica tapes from adolescence is a bit of a thrill. The C9 and D6C are also big beasts, and their dimensions suit each other nicely.


I haven't gone round to it yet, but thanks for sharing this, great to see others that know where truth lies 😉👍😊🍻


----------



## 425455

Nostoi said:


> File under "unusual pairings." The C9 with the Sony WM-D6C. This is one of the few high-end Sony Walkmans of the classic era with a true line-out (and line-in), so it's perfect for external amps. Sounds surprisingly good - warm and smooth, but with a good sense of dynamics.
> 
> Have to say, listening to the ZMF VC on my old AC/DC, Maiden, Metallica tapes from adolescence is a bit of a thrill. The C9 and D6C are also big beasts, and their dimensions suit each other nicely.



That's so awesome

I got the original blue one for my 15th birthday when they had just come out...

Wish I still had it..  still got the tapes!


----------



## Nostoi

soundblast75 said:


> I haven't gone round to it yet, but thanks for sharing this, great to see others that know where truth lies 😉👍😊🍻


Dude! That is badass. Those 80s/90s Aiwa players are super underrated and easily compete with the Sonys. Lovely collection.


----------



## Nostoi

drlorks said:


> That's so awesome
> 
> I got the original blue one for my 15th birthday when they had just come out...
> 
> Wish I still had it..  still got the tapes!


They still pop up on Ebay, but a few of them have shot up in price because of things like Stranger Things and Guardians of the Galaxy, which I think features the original blue one. Iconic, indeed.


----------



## soundblast75

Nostoi said:


> Dude! That is badass. Those 80s/90s Aiwa players are super underrated and easily compete with the Sonys. Lovely collection.


The Aiwa is great, but as good tapes are hard to come by the Sony does a better job at driving, will try with amp later👍👍🍻🍻🍻


----------



## Nostoi

soundblast75 said:


> The Aiwa is great, but as good tapes are hard to come by the Sony does a better job at driving, will try with amp later👍👍🍻🍻🍻


Id be curious to hear how it pairs with the Discman, too. Can't have a Walkman without a Discman, after all.


----------



## bigbeans

Only a matter of time until we start seeing C9+ Turntable setups here lol


----------



## soundblast75

Nostoi said:


> Id be curious to hear how it pairs with the Discman, too. Can't have a Walkman without a Discman, after all.


My life goal has been to achieve what this Discman does, nothing in the digital realm has managed to sound as convincing over the years. This is the reason i splashed the big bucks on an R2R dac and it is as good if not a tiny bit better, but the price to pay is excruciating.
C9 on the other hand is a rare precious  device that fits well with the legacy, its a must😊👍


----------



## soundblast75

bigbeans said:


> Only a matter of time until we start seeing C9+ Turntable setups here lol


Haha, you asked for it😉


----------



## Nostoi

soundblast75 said:


> My life goal has been to achieve what this Discman does, nothing in the digital realm has managed to sound as convincing over the years. This is the reason i splashed the big bucks on an R2R dac and it is as good if not a tiny bit better, but the price to pay is excruciating.
> C9 on the other hand is a rare precious  device that fits well with the legacy, its a must😊👍


Relatable!


----------



## elira

soundblast75 said:


> My life goal has been to achieve what this Discman does, nothing in the digital realm has managed to sound as convincing over the years. This is the reason i splashed the big bucks on an R2R dac and it is as good if not a tiny bit better, but the price to pay is excruciating.
> C9 on the other hand is a rare precious  device that fits well with the legacy, its a must😊👍


What DAC is in that Discman?


----------



## Whitigir

Nostoi said:


> Dude! That is badass. Those 80s/90s Aiwa players are super underrated and easily compete with the Sonys. Lovely collection.


Aiwa! It was even better than Sony.  I loved it so much!!! The recent digital stuff that sound resembling Aiwa house sound is Shanling stuff !!!


----------



## soundblast75

Whitigir said:


> Aiwa! It was even better than Sony.  I loved it so much!!! The recent digital stuff that sound resembling Aiwa house sound is Shanling stuff !!!


Oh that's great to know, do you mean from M8 onwards and upwards only?


----------



## soundblast75

elira said:


> What DAC is in that Discman?


You see, this is the problem with the whole business and why we all spend 1000s but don't listen to anything remotely decent (looking at you Chord) It is an irrelevant question. The dac was the simplest Philips long gone now and yet with 4 times oversampling as the biggest deal put on top of the unit, Sony managed a sound that Hugo2 can only dream to sound like, totally wrong direction..


----------



## Whitigir

soundblast75 said:


> Oh that's great to know, do you mean from M8 onwards and upwards only?


The M8 and M30 are resembling Aiwa house sound, definitely


----------



## Marat Sar

What type of interconnect would be closest to the sound of the one Cayin supplies with the c9? I'm looking to connect 2.5 to 4.4 (SP2000 user for now) and would like as close to that cayin sound as possible, as I've noticed the Cayin cable sounds great -- just sucks having to use an adapter, as I know they downgrade and change the sound. Price is not an object here.

I'm looking at what plussound has to offer, for example. And I'm stuck deciding on the material... 






Super open to other cable makers too. Price is not a problem, I just want a good interconnect -- and I gotta say I'm a little lost. I get wildly different results from the stock plus different 2.5 to 4.4 adapters. And I have an Iliad 2.5 to 4.4, which isn't quite what I was looking for. (Soundstage gets smaller than the stock plus adapter, strangely enough.)

Any help and experiences welcome!


----------



## bluestorm1992 (May 12, 2021)

Marat Sar said:


> What type of interconnect would be closest to the sound of the one Cayin supplies with the c9? I'm looking to connect 2.5 to 4.4 (SP2000 user for now) and would like as close to that cayin sound as possible, as I've noticed the Cayin cable sounds great -- just sucks having to use an adapter, as I know they downgrade and change the sound. Price is not an object here.
> 
> I'm looking at what plussound has to offer, for example. And I'm stuck deciding on the material...
> 
> ...


PW is making a new line of IC based on Orpheus. Andrew does not have them on their website yet, but I guess you can email him to request them.


----------



## Marat Sar

Very cool option for the future. Sounds a liiitle hassle-ish now, and I think I might make that orpheus 4.4 to 4.4 for futureproofing... Probably gonna be havin 4.4 sources in the future.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (May 12, 2021)

Marat Sar said:


> Very cool option for the future. Sounds a liiitle hassle-ish now, and I think I might make that orpheus 4.4 to 4.4 for futureproofing... Probably gonna be havin 4.4 sources in the future.


Although this is a C9 thread, now that you are on the topic of a new DAP (with a 4.4 output), I would highly recommend you to consider LP P6 Pro. The UI is a bit painful to use, but it sounds GOD LIKE with *both Traillii and FS*. It pairs extremely well with C9 too.


----------



## LabelH (May 13, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> PW is making a new line of IC based on Orpheus. Andrew does not have them on their website yet, but I guess you can email him to request them.


Actually, all of their cable are available to custom upon request same like other brand.
The price is around HK$6,180 (~ USD795), which is quite expensive and almost half price of C9.
https://www.carousell.com.hk/p/pw-audio-orpheus-屏蔽過機線-1076297187/

Bonus, they also have this AK adapter but kind of limited edition. 
https://www.facebook.com/praesto.hk/posts/1810997022397656?__tn__=-R


----------



## SBranson

My C9 arrived today...  Quickly determined that it’s LO on low gain for the M8, and Class A tube.  I’ll see after some time about exploring more.

Four songs in...



The whisper is so delicate, the piano and violin as full and “real” sounding.  I had to do a quick comparison to my usual turbo gain and this amp is amazing out of the box.  At first I could only sense that it was subtle in parts but cumulatively a significant improvement.
The Elysium can’t handle the thunderstorm and can only imagine this on full sized headphones.
On other tracks though I couldn’t believe how powerful the bass is.

Going back to listening..  see ya...


----------



## soundblast75

SBranson said:


> My C9 arrived today...  Quickly determined that it’s LO on low gain for the M8, and Class A tube.  I’ll see after some time about exploring more.
> 
> Four songs in...
> 
> ...



Congrats on getting the C9, it makes all music and gear better. 
Good one on Max, it is a cello and piano, possibly played by my friend Ian, i also work with Max on several projects, enjoy 👍🍻🎶


----------



## bluestorm1992 (May 13, 2021)

WHAT THE???!!

Cayin is doing the new product release ATM. Two new products.

The first one: N6ii Ti, limited edition,* R2R*. Compatible with previous motherboards.


A screenshot of this R2R Ti motherboard.


----------



## Andykong

While the new N6ii Audio Motherboards is not related to C9 directly, N6ii users (or potential users) can check out the details of our new Audio Motherboard and N6ii-R2R (Titanium Limited Edition) in N6ii Official Thread (*HERE*)


----------



## soundblast75

Phew 😅so far my wallet is safe.
Let's see the other one🙄


----------



## Marat Sar

What's the other one? (N9 please...)


----------



## bluestorm1992

Marat Sar said:


> What's the other one? (N9 please...)


Ah so the two new products are just these two:

N6ii Ti, with R2R motherboard.
R01 R2R motherboard.


----------



## decur

no LO in ro1,no go for me


----------



## SBranson

soundblast75 said:


> Congrats on getting the C9, it makes all music and gear better.
> Good one on Max, it is a cello and piano, possibly played by my friend Ian, i also work with Max on several projects, enjoy 👍🍻🎶


That's pretty high in the cello's register.. I'm going to have to listen again with that in mind..
That's very cool that you work with Max Richter..  He is one of my very favourites.


----------



## Nostoi

soundblast75 said:


> Congrats on getting the C9, it makes all music and gear better.
> Good one on Max, it is a cello and piano, possibly played by my friend Ian, i also work with Max on several projects, enjoy 👍🍻🎶


That's interesting. I don't know him myself, but maybe you know Gazelle Twin who he has worked with, I think, and who is a friend of mine.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> Ah so the two new products are just these two:
> 
> N6ii Ti, with R2R motherboard.
> R01 R2R motherboard.


Bummer.   I can't use either of those products.   Need to wait until 2022 to get the new and improved companion for C9.


----------



## RTodd (May 13, 2021)

The tube mode on the C9 nails it on acoustic stand up bass. And on this recording using the Thummim as the drivers, the horns and piano are all represented well. Mids are a little recessed to my ears, piano seems pushed back a bit. Bass and horn are like anchor and sail.

edit Listening again to track 1, piano is not recessed. It is, when the recoding engineer probably meant it to be.


----------



## SBranson (May 13, 2021)

I notice that the C9 gets quite warm.  Are others using some kind of feet to get some airflow underneath?


----------



## bluestorm1992 (May 13, 2021)

SBranson said:


> I notice that the C9 gets quite warm.  Are others using some kind of feet to get some airflow underneath?


The stock case works pretty well in heat dispassion, if you haven't received one.


----------



## SBranson

bluestorm1992 said:


> The stock case works pretty well in head dispassion, if you haven't received one.


I didn’t buy it to save a few dollars as this isn’t really intended to be transportable for my usage..  maybe I will get the case later.


----------



## bluestorm1992

SBranson said:


> I didn’t buy it to save a few dollars as this isn’t really intended to be transportable for my usage..  maybe I will get the case later.


There is this nice two-layer case you can buy. You should see the pic of it if you go back a few pages here.


----------



## RTodd

bluestorm1992 said:


> The stock case works pretty well in heat dispassion, if you haven't received one.


+1 completely solves it for me. Just keep it uncovered as much as possible. 10 minutes or so in a bag was also okay.


----------



## soundblast75

Nostoi said:


> That's interesting. I don't know him myself, but maybe you know Gazelle Twin who he has worked with, I think, and who is a friend of mine.


That would not be in UK im guessing, only do some sessions with him in London🇬🇧😊🍻👍


----------



## ian91

Glad to hear you're enjoying it @SBranson. 



bluestorm1992 said:


> PW is making a new line of IC based on Orpheus. Andrew does not have them on their website yet, but I guess you can email him to request them.



I'm scientific by nature and like to think I'm rational but there's something deep inside telling me that thicker = better. Would love to try the Orpheus...cable or I/C.


----------



## gazzington

Weirdly I’ve had the c9 for about 2 weeks but today was my first use with the wm1z. I set it as pre amp and used the volume on the wm1z. Flippin loved it. Nice anologue sound. The c9 pushes every day up a level


----------



## ian91

RTodd said:


> The tube mode on the C9 nails it on acoustic stand up bass. And on this recording using the Thummim as the drivers, the horns and piano are all represented well. Mids are a little recessed to my ears, piano seems pushed back a bit. Bass and horn are like anchor and sail.
> 
> edit Listening again to track 1, piano is not recessed. It is, when the recoding engineer probably meant it to be.



What magic does C9 work with Thummim?


----------



## RTodd

ian91 said:


> What magic does C9 work with Thummim?



It does seem like magic. I can hear the air volume inside the instrument, feel the wood, hear it crackling. Where bass can on the Thummim straight from my daps bleed a bit into the mids that sounds better controlled.

To my ears, in an engaging way this is as good as I have heard so far for this music.

You already have the C9 let it warm up for 20 minutes and demo the Thummim and see what it does for you. Using the M8 could make it to warm I need to try that.


----------



## ian91

RTodd said:


> It does seem like magic. I can hear the air volume inside the instrument, feel the wood, hear it crackling. Where bass can on the Thummim straight from my daps bleed a bit into the mids that sounds better controlled.
> 
> To my ears, in an engaging way this is as good as I have heard so far for this music.
> 
> You already have the C9 let it warm up for 20 minutes and demo the Thummim and see what it does for you. Using the M8 could make it to warm I need to try that.



Sounds great! From what I've read the Thummin sounds like a trip, so if the C9 tightens the bass up a bit, even better!


----------



## fiascogarcia

SBranson said:


> I notice that the C9 gets quite warm.  Are others using some kind of feet to get some airflow underneath?


I do.  In fact, I actually put rubber feet on the case, assuming that if the heat causes them to leave any adhesive residue, I'd rather replace a case than mar the finish on the C9.


----------



## Whitigir

N6ii Titanium will be competing against AK SE180 I think ?

This is interesting as a Known Lixurious brand has brought itself down a few levels to compete to Cayin, or Cayin has brought itself up a few levels to compete against AK.  Could be both

However, it is very interesting to see the direction this hobby is heading toward


----------



## bigbeans

Can't play Angry Birds with my Dunu Lunas on Astell and Kern DAP. 

AK is already behind.


----------



## bluestorm1992

bigbeans said:


> Can't play Angry Birds with my Dunu Lunas on Astell and Kern DAP.
> 
> AK is already behind.


DAPs like DX300 are beats in terms of functionality.


----------



## fuhransahis

SBranson said:


> I notice that the C9 gets quite warm.  Are others using some kind of feet to get some airflow underneath?





fiascogarcia said:


> I do.  In fact, I actually put rubber feet on the case, assuming that if the heat causes them to leave any adhesive residue, I'd rather replace a case than mar the finish on the C9.


I put furniture feet on the bottom of mine, they go on top of the protector film that's still on so there's no adhesive residue leftover when/if I get a case later on (just remove the film).

Also doubled-up command strips to create space between the amp and DAP and keep airflow there. These also hold really well and leave literally no residue when removed.

Seems ghetto for the gear but Empy + C9 = no money left for fancy leather case 🤪

All jokes aside it does actually work well and neatly. I'll have to swap those white command strips in the middle for black ones so my OCD doesn't go too crazy.


----------



## CANiSLAYu

Whitigir said:


> N6ii Titanium will be competing against AK SE180 I think ?
> 
> This is interesting as a Known Lixurious brand has brought itself down a few levels to compete to Cayin, or Cayin has brought itself up a few levels to compete against AK.  Could be both
> 
> However, it is very interesting to see the direction this hobby is heading toward


FiiO had an interesting and honest post a few months back about their strategy/roadmap as relates to DAPs.

To summarize it very crudely, there’s basically no margin for manufacturers and little consumer interest in low/mid-fi DAPs. That market has been completely taken over by dongles and Bluetooth DAC/amps where you get a much better user experience on your smartphone versus a crappy SOC/screen on a cheap DAP.

So DAP manufacturers are forced to move upstream where the margins are better and there’s more consumer interest.  FiiO is abandoning all DAPs under the M11 going forward as a result.

I wouldn’t be surprised if most DAP manufacturers will be in the same boat if a brand like FiiO which made its name in the  budget/value arena is going to focus strictly on the high end.


----------



## SBranson

fuhransahis said:


> I put furniture feet on the bottom of mine, they go on top of the protector film that's still on so there's no adhesive residue leftover when/if I get a case later on (just remove the film).
> 
> Also doubled-up command strips to create space between the amp and DAP and keep airflow there. These also hold really well and leave literally no residue when removed.
> 
> ...



I bought some cupboard bumpers but I think I might get something a little taller.

I wish the cable was a as bit longer as my M8 has the jack on the top.


----------



## RTodd (May 13, 2021)

SBranson said:


> I bought some cupboard bumpers but I think I might get something a little taller.
> 
> I wish the cable was a as bit longer as my M8 has the jack on the top.


I was thinking of ordering a longer cable to.

On the heat issue recommending one of the Cayin cases. The bumpers will not be needed if heat is why you added them. The case does an excellent job dissipating the heat.

It is open with gaps between the metal fins that effectively radiate the heat fast so there is little temperature build up even after hours of listening.

Not sure what material it is made out of, the parts that touch the C9 (the black part) around the edges seems to effectively transfer the heat to the metal fins.

The fins have space for air flow around them.

Whatever is going on here it works and the whole package stays only slightly warm.


----------



## SBranson (May 13, 2021)

RTodd said:


> I was thinking of ordering a longer cable to.
> 
> On the heat issue recommending one of the Cayin cases. The bumpers will not be needed if heat is why you added them. The case does an excellent job dissipating the heat.
> 
> ...



Hmm, I listened for about 1 1/2  hours last night on tube mode and it was quite warm..  hopefully that’s normal.  I’ve had lots of tube amps in the past in 2 channel so I know they can run quite hot.


----------



## RTodd (May 13, 2021)

SBranson said:


> Hmm, I listened for about 1 1/2  hours last night on tube mode and it was quite warm..  hopefully that’s normal.  I’ve had lots of tube amps in the past in 2 channel so I know they can run quite hot.


I am using tube mode as well class AB which may cause difference for amount of heat compared with class A. Are you using one of the cases?


----------



## SBranson (May 13, 2021)

RTodd said:


> I am using tube mode as well class AB which may cause difference for amount of heat compared with class A. Are you using one of the cases?


No I’m not using the case.  I kinda figure that at that price it should have been included but it was already a stretch for me to buy the C9 and the bump over $2k with the case just psychologically threw me off.. ha ha..

You’re probably right that the Class A is part of the heat thing.  I’ll try AB and see.


----------



## aaf evo

I’ve used mine Tube mode class AB for hours at a time, with a case on, and haven’t had any issues with heat.


----------



## RTodd

P


SBranson said:


> No I’m not using the case.  I kinda figure that at that price it should have been included but it was already a stretch for me to buy the C9 and the bump over $2k with the case just psychologically threw me off.. ha ha..
> 
> You’re probably right that the Class A is part of the heat thing.  I’ll try AB and see.


You need a case, it is worth the extra money.

Class A could run hotter. I have used A also and the case still did the job.

The sound was really close between A and AB so I have been using AB to get a little more play time. 5 hours many days is not enough while I am in the office working. Eventually I will try the batteries that give an extra hour. Class A sounds a tiny bit better to me.


----------



## decur

for me,
class a + tube mode sounds much better than a/b + tube mode
class a + tube mode gets boiling hot,im too scared to wrap my c9 in a case while listening


----------



## jmills8

decur said:


> for me,
> class a + tube mode sounds much better than a/b + tube mode
> class a + tube mode gets boiling hot,im too scared to wrap my c9 in a case while listening


Hot = sounds better.


----------



## RTodd

decur said:


> for me,
> class a + tube mode sounds much better than a/b + tube mode
> class a + tube mode gets boiling hot,im too scared to wrap my c9 in a case while listening


Will try it again today with case and see, I did that last week and on my recent flights, and I do not think it was any hotter with the case than AB. I agree with you A does sound better, not much though to my ears. 

Can you describe a bit more what you hear that makes it much better in A, particularly is that specific to a frequency range or across the board, is it just in the handling of the transients?


----------



## Whitigir (May 14, 2021)

RTodd said:


> Will try it again today with case and see, I did that last week and on my recent flights, and I do not think it was any hotter with the case than AB. I agree with you A does sound better, not much though to my ears.
> 
> Can you describe a bit more what you hear that makes it much better in A, particularly is that specific to a frequency range or across the board, is it just in the handling of the transients?


For me, the transients is a tad slower and the bass is rounder, fuller, extending better, but also may be more blooming where the AB is tighter and faster.  It should just be personal preferences. However, they don’t sound like night and days differences.

Class A + Tubes should fry an egg after 3-4 hours operation, even without any cases....Hence I have heatsinks on mine lol

Anyways, by 3-4 hours, stock batteries should be almost drained.  So you don’t have to worry if you only listen for a short period and charge it up.  Unless you go for larger capacity batteries and listen longer


----------



## RTodd

Whitigir said:


> For me, the transients is a tad slower and the bass is rounder, fuller, extending better, but also may be more blooming where the AB is tighter and faster.  It should just be personal preferences. However, they don’t sound like night and days differences.
> 
> Class A + Tubes should fry an egg after 3-4 hours operation, even without any cases....Hence I have heatsinks on mine lol
> 
> Anyways, by 3-4 hours, stock batteries should be almost drained.  So you don’t have to worry if you only listen for a short period and charge it up.  Unless you go for larger capacity batteries and listen longer



Finding the Cayin case solves the fry an egg issue, unless you need to fry an egg than that is a good thing.

There is something well done going on here with how Cayin designed that case. No leather here, the black material must be an excellent conductor of energy. Seems it is allowing the heat sink metal of the case to dissipate the heat at a rate that keeps up with its generation on the surface of the C9s housing. I think this is just material science and attention to detail at work here.


----------



## soundblast75

I switch Tubes off and stay on A to regulate heat occasionally , there is a difference, but its not huge for me, also once i was long time on AB and thought i was in A, when i switched back it was better in a very subtle way.
As someone once said
"there's a very subtle difference, but it's an essential one" 😉😅


----------



## fiascogarcia

Found the tallest pads I could. Great fit on the case and leaves plenty of circulation space underneath.


----------



## jmills8

fiascogarcia said:


> Found the tallest pads I could. Great fit on the case and leaves plenty of circulation space underneath.


Next make an amp hammock.


----------



## RTodd

fiascogarcia said:


> Found the tallest pads I could. Great fit on the case and leaves plenty of circulation space underneath.


Nice, looks like an amazing view out your window?


----------



## fiascogarcia

RTodd said:


> Nice, looks like an amazing view out your window?


Thanks!  Yes, we love our property.  We're lucky enough to live on 35 acres with a 1 acre back yard.


----------



## RTodd

fiascogarcia said:


> Thanks!  Yes, we love our property.  We're lucky enough to live on 35 acres with a 1 acre back yard.


Makes me want to do a landscape painting. 
Very lush.


----------



## fiascogarcia

jmills8 said:


> Next make an amp hammock.


I'll get on that project right away!


----------



## Trunkmonkey44

fiascogarcia said:


> Found the tallest pads I could. Great fit on the case and leaves plenty of circulation space underneath.


Those ice cubes will definitely help manage the heat.


----------



## RTodd

Ran 3 hours on A tube, low gain, it is definitely hotter than AB. With the case on not uncomfortable to touch, without the case bordering on hot.


----------



## Whitigir

RTodd said:


> Ran 3 hours on A tube, low gain, it is definitely hotter than AB. With the case on not uncomfortable to touch, without the case bordering on hot.


And you have taken it out of the case to make sure that it is cooler with the case on ?


----------



## RTodd

Whitigir said:


> And you have taken it out of the case to make sure that it is cooler with the case on ?


Yes a lot cooler touching the case vs the C9. 
What I do not know is how much heat is reduced by the case providing separation from vs dissipating heat, likely both going on here.


----------



## Whitigir

RTodd said:


> Yes a lot cooler touching the case vs the C9.
> What I do not know is how much heat is reduced by the case providing separation from vs dissipating heat, likely both going on here.


Yeah, I would think the case would insulate some thermal between the C9 body and the outer leather itself ?


----------



## RTodd

Whitigir said:


> Yeah, I would think the case would insulate some thermal between the C9 body and the outer leather itself ?


There is no leather in that case that I can see or smell. Most of it is metal, around the outer edges is some kind of semi hard composite material.


----------



## 425455

I'm stalking here...

I really want (not need) a Cayin C9! 

Does anyone have any experience of battery life on this with full size cans?


----------



## bigbeans

drlorks said:


> I'm stalking here...
> 
> I really want (not need) a Cayin C9!
> 
> Does anyone have any experience of battery life on this with full size cans?


I would look into getting a C9 soon...the production has stopped for now. Who knows when next batch will be produced.


----------



## 425455 (May 14, 2021)

bigbeans said:


> Who knows when next batch will be produced.



Yes - just like my mountain bikes this year ...! doh

Battery life? I do have a good stock of 18650's... Battery rolling.. now there's a thing!


----------



## Tanalasta

lucasratmundo said:


> High expectations indeed Actually, I use SP2000+C9 as my transportable bedside/living room system most of the time. I only use TT2+C9 when I want to use my IEMs by my desk because why not?


Has anyone paired the Dave to the C9?

wondering if it would be a worthwhile step up to the hugo2


----------



## Marat Sar

So, is the N6ii Ti + A02 now the official "best cleanest line out feeder" of c9? Or is it LPGT Ti? I take it these are the two "true LO" heroes in the room?

Getting a P6 Pro and I already have SP2000...  LOL. Just can't seem to get a purist LO in my DAP arsenal. Trying to figure out if there's a widely acknowledged "best" I'm missing here...


----------



## Whitigir

Marat Sar said:


> So, is the N6ii Ti + A02 now the official "best cleanest line out feeder" of c9? Or is it LPGT Ti? I take it these are the two "true LO" heroes in the room?
> 
> Getting a P6 Pro and I already have SP2000...  LOL. Just can't seem to get a purist LO in my DAP arsenal. Trying to figure out if there's a widely acknowledged "best" I'm missing here...


Doesn’t need to be N6ii TI and A02.  You just need C6ii and A02.  The TI is just limited model at the end of it cycle I believe.  There are no changes that Cayin mentioned at all for the TI Vs regular C6ii


----------



## bigbeans

Marat Sar said:


> So, is the N6ii Ti + A02 now the official "best cleanest line out feeder" of c9? Or is it LPGT Ti? I take it these are the two "true LO" heroes in the room?
> 
> Getting a P6 Pro and I already have SP2000...  LOL. Just can't seem to get a purist LO in my DAP arsenal. Trying to figure out if there's a widely acknowledged "best" I'm missing here...


Andy Kong from Cayin confirmed N6ii Ti is ONLY a chassis change. The chipsets, innards and so on are identical. There is no functional difference between Ti and non Ti N6ii. You can check out on N6ii thread for more info


----------



## bluestorm1992

Marat Sar said:


> So, is the N6ii Ti + A02 now the official "best cleanest line out feeder" of c9? Or is it LPGT Ti? I take it these are the two "true LO" heroes in the room?
> 
> Getting a P6 Pro and I already have SP2000...  LOL. Just can't seem to get a purist LO in my DAP arsenal. Trying to figure out if there's a widely acknowledged "best" I'm missing here...


A lot of people said P6 Pro is the best pairing with C9 for a DAP. Many Chinese/Asian Traillii users do this combo.


----------



## RTodd (May 14, 2021)

Marat Sar said:


> So, is the N6ii Ti + A02 now the official "best cleanest line out feeder" of c9? Or is it LPGT Ti? I take it these are the two "true LO" heroes in the room?
> 
> Getting a P6 Pro and I already have SP2000...  LOL. Just can't seem to get a purist LO in my DAP arsenal. Trying to figure out if there's a widely acknowledged "best" I'm missing here...


You could save some $s and go with a Lotoo PAW6000 it sounds great with the C9 has a true line out, easy to use software, it will even flip the screen so it is facing the right way when sitting on top the C9.

If someone has the C9, LPGT and the PAW and compared them we could find out if there is a big improvement.

Likewise a comparison between the N6ii A02 to the PAW6K or LPGT these are the only three DAP options with a true line out, (I think).

L&P products may still qualify as true line out, with these the DAPs volume control is still in the chain so not sure.

On the P6Pro volume control is relay based with all relays on (I think) in line out mode when you engage it. I can say it sounds great as a source with the C9.
I have heard an opinion that it was the best combination for a DAP with C9 available today.

Anyone please feel free to correct any of this if my assumptions are incorrect.


----------



## Marat Sar

bluestorm1992 said:


> A lot of people said P6 Pro is the best pairing with C9 for a DAP. Many Chinese/Asian Traillii users do this combo.





RTodd said:


> You could save some $s and go with a Lotoo PAW6000 it sounds great with the C9 has a true line out, easy to use software, it will even flip the screen so it is facing the right way when sitting on top the C9.
> 
> If someone has the C9, LPGT and the PAW and compared them we could find out if there is a big improvement.
> 
> ...



Ooh, interesting stuff, thank you all very much. Suddenly I'm even giddier for that P6 Pro to arrive. Consensus great (or even top) source for the C9 _and _an amazing direct DAP for my Mason FS. Good times! 

Tiny note -- there's also an iBasso amp module, amp3, their 2.5 one. Probably long out of date now, but it has 2.5 balanced LO -- true as true can get. That turns dx200, dx200Ti and dx220 into true LO sources too. Can add them to your list with amp3. I just so happen to have one too, but don't currently have access to my dx200Ti (gave it to my gf). I'm getting more and more interested to hear it with the C9. The dx200Ti had a very cold and pristine sound with a great "all around you" soundstage. Might be a nice exotic combo I'm missing out on... 

Darn girlfriends!


----------



## RTodd

Marat Sar said:


> Ooh, interesting stuff, thank you all very much. Suddenly I'm even giddier for that P6 Pro to arrive. Consensus great (or even top) source for the C9 _and _an amazing direct DAP for my Mason FS. Good times!
> 
> Tiny note -- there's also an iBasso amp module, amp3, their 2.5 one. Probably long out of date now, but it has 2.5 balanced LO -- true as true can get. That turns dx200, dx200Ti and dx220 into true LO sources too. Can add them to your list with amp3. I just so happen to have one too, but don't currently have access to my dx200Ti (gave it to my gf). I'm getting more and more interested to hear it with the C9. The dx200Ti had a very cold and pristine sound with a great "all around you" soundstage. Might be a nice exotic combo I'm missing out on...
> 
> Darn girlfriends!


Girlfriends how many do you have, you lucky dawg.


----------



## Marat Sar

RTodd said:


> Girlfriends how many do you have, you lucky dawg.



I have five: the bird, the mason, the tzar, the noir and Layla


----------



## Trunkmonkey44

Marat Sar said:


> So, is the N6ii Ti + A02 now the official "best cleanest line out feeder" of c9? Or is it LPGT Ti? I take it these are the two "true LO" heroes in the room?
> 
> Getting a P6 Pro and I already have SP2000...  LOL. Just can't seem to get a purist LO in my DAP arsenal. Trying to figure out if there's a widely acknowledged "best" I'm missing here...


I have an SP2000 and bought the P6Pro too. Love both out of the C9, but there is something special about the P6Pro. It just sounds so smooth to me. Probably not the right description, but my tunes just sound right to my ears. 

Forget where I read it, maybe @twister6 posted it, but setting the line out voltage on the SP2000 by adjusting the volume wheel and hitting the button made my experience much better with the SP2000 + C9 combo.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Trunkmonkey44 said:


> I have an SP2000 and bought the P6Pro too. Love both out of the C9, but there is something special about the P6Pro. It just sounds so smooth to me. Probably not the right description, but my tunes just sound right to my ears.
> 
> Forget where I read it, maybe @twister6 posted it, but setting the line out voltage on the SP2000 by adjusting the volume wheel and hitting the button made my experience much better with the SP2000 + C9 combo.


Indeed, using the LO feature of SP2000 has made its pairing with C9 much better to me as well.


----------



## SBranson (May 15, 2021)

Geez..  this C9 continues to amaze me.  Listening to this and even a YouTube mp3 sounds fantastic,



PS...  I’ll consult the manual tomorrow but can the C9 be used while charging from an external battery or does the power need to be off?


----------



## jmills8

SBranson said:


> Geez..  this C9 continues to amaze me.  Listening to this and even a YouTube mp3 sounds fantastic,
> 
> 
> 
> PS...  I’ll consult the manual tomorrow but can the C9 be used while charging from an external battery or does the power need to be off?



No


----------



## lucasratmundo

Tanalasta said:


> Has anyone paired the Dave to the C9?
> 
> wondering if it would be a worthwhile step up to the hugo2


Hey @Tanalasta, do you see any fundamental difference in sound quality between Hugo 2 + 2go vs SP2000 when used with the C9 (and in general)?


----------



## bluestorm1992

SBranson said:


> Geez..  this C9 continues to amaze me.  Listening to this and even a YouTube mp3 sounds fantastic,
> 
> 
> 
> PS...  I’ll consult the manual tomorrow but can the C9 be used while charging from an external battery or does the power need to be off?



It is always more advised to have your C9 off when charging it, regardless of your charging source.


----------



## Tanalasta

lucasratmundo said:


> Hey @Tanalasta, do you see any fundamental difference in sound quality between Hugo 2 + 2go vs SP2000 when used with the C9 (and in general)?


I am yet to receive my C9 … our local distributor has had stock delays.

Though if comparisons between the SP2K and Hugo 2 which have similar power outputs direct into Trailli are to go by, I imagine there will be an intrinsic difference. The Hugo 2 is lusher, with more body, dynamic and warmth whereas the SP2K can be somewhat clinical. Enjoyable none the less. I can imagine going Tube A with the SP2K.


----------



## SBranson (May 15, 2021)

I tried searching but does anyone have a suggestion for a decent longer interconnect?  I like to listen while lying in bed and the short IC just isn’t working out so well.  I can order a custom one but I’m still reeling a bit from the cost of the C9 so I’m trying to stay at $200’ish as a max..


----------



## bigbeans

SBranson said:


> I tried searching but does anyone have a suggestion for a decent longer interconnect?  I like to listen while lying in bed and the short IC just isn’t working out so well.  I can order a custom one but I’m still reeling a bit from the cost of the C9 so I’m trying to stay at $200’ish as a max..


Corpse Cable. Send them an email, price approx 170.


----------



## lucasratmundo

Tanalasta said:


> I am yet to receive my C9 … our local distributor has had stock delays.
> 
> Though if comparisons between the SP2K and Hugo 2 which have similar power outputs direct into Trailli are to go by, I imagine there will be an intrinsic difference. The Hugo 2 is lusher, with more body, dynamic and warmth whereas the SP2K can be somewhat clinical. Enjoyable none the less. I can imagine going Tube A with the SP2K.


Yeah, the SP2K works really well with the C9’s Tube A mode. I’ve been wondering how much of an upgrade the Hugo 2 + C9 would be over the SP2K + C9. Please share your impressions once you receive your C9


----------



## fuhransahis

SBranson said:


> I tried searching but does anyone have a suggestion for a decent longer interconnect?  I like to listen while lying in bed and the short IC just isn’t working out so well.  I can order a custom one but I’m still reeling a bit from the cost of the C9 so I’m trying to stay at $200’ish as a max..


Norne Audio, can provide whatever configs you want and will give honest recommendations for what materials to go with, and very reasonable pricing for what you get. Might need to wait a week or two for the build but quality is impeccable.


----------



## fiascogarcia

SBranson said:


> I tried searching but does anyone have a suggestion for a decent longer interconnect?  I like to listen while lying in bed and the short IC just isn’t working out so well.  I can order a custom one but I’m still reeling a bit from the cost of the C9 so I’m trying to stay at $200’ish as a max..





fuhransahis said:


> Norne Audio, can provide whatever configs you want and will give honest recommendations for what materials to go with, and very reasonable pricing for what you get. Might need to wait a week or two for the build but quality is impeccable.


I'm using a Norne Silvergarde S4, and compared with the stock IC, it boosts and tightens the bass and sub bass, and brings forward the upper mids and treble, with greater detail. IMO


----------



## lucasratmundo

The Iliads look awesome together with the SP2000+C9 combo


----------



## AEIOU9

Anyone have experience or thoughts with these batteries?

https://www.orbtronic.com/18650-battery-3500mah-li-ion-high-drain-panasonic-sanyo


----------



## CayinSupport

SMOoth Operator said:


> @CayinSupport I heard a rumer about distributers having problems getting the C9 into the USA for import problems, possibly political or customs related. Bloom audio has had an order in for a while now and says they have been held at the port indefinitely. Supposedly the only reason Musicteck has them, is because they have a special relationship with Cayin and managed to find an "alternative method" of getting them into the country...Can you comment on this and elaborate on what is going on with the situation?



Hi sir,

Apologize for this very late reply.

After communicating with our colleagues, we haven't experienced any export/import problem as you mentioned recently.

We have two official authorized distributors in the US, RSM COMM and MusicTeck.

While RSM COMM hasn't imported the product of C9, MusicTeck is the only one who introduced C9 in the US market and imported the model with DHL through regular import channels. If our customers in the US want to purchase C9, the best way is to contact MusicTeck.

We are not sure whether Bloom Audio is a dealer of RSM or not and where they tried to import C9. We are not supplying Bloom Audio directly. Please make sure you are inquiring with the Authorized Distributor or Dealers so that you can get the precise information you want to know about.  

Best regards,

Cayin


----------



## Andykong

111MilesToGo said:


> @Andykong: Thanks for your detailed explanatory posts which go into much more detail than the printed manual.
> 
> I‘d like to ask two questions regarding battery care, just to make sure.
> 
> ...



Yes, the protection circuit of C9 battery module has overcharge and over-discharge protection, but if you charge and playback at the same time, you'll defeat the protection circuit because the playback has dictated the current output.



111MilesToGo said:


> Item 2 happens every once in a while, especially while burning in. Should I be watching the battery lights while playing? Should I switch it off myself when the last one light starts flashing? That would be an outdated method ...
> 
> Thanks for clarifying, even when these questions might have been addressed before. (I read the a.m. posts, but did not exactly find yes/no answers to what I am asking here, maybe I am mistaken.)


 
If you are not charge and playback at the same time, this should be OK, the protection circuit will stop the power supply before the batteries drain to dangerous level.  However if you were to charge and playback at the same time and your playback consume battery faster than the charging, this might pose a risk.


----------



## Andykong

Tanalasta said:


> Single dynamic drivers - are perhaps best made of 40mm of Beryllium in a full sized can
> 
> I’m really looking forward to experimenting with my pseudoDAP (2go/Hugo2) and the C9 with the Utopia. Between the C9 timbre/amp selections and the H2 filters should open up a world of musical options.



Interesting, why 40mm? why not 50mm for full size can?

Did you receive your C9 already?  I am looking forward to your pseudo DAP impression.


----------



## Andykong

newworld666 said:


> As I have really annoying issues with A&K which is a real pain to use, I am wondering if a Cayin N6II + E02 and C9 can make be more versatile and still as good as Cayin N6II + A02 and C9 ?
> It seems easy to get N6II + E02.. But, is the E02 board with a real pre-out comparable to the A02 when connected to the C9 ? or still better to get the A02 Board ?





newworld666 said:


> Sorry I don't have the N6II .. I intend to buy the N6II+*E02* and I am wondering if the A02 is still necessary ?
> I could see Whitgir is even thinking that N6II+A02+C9 has still some little advantages compared to the M30. But does E02 have the same real line out as A02 ?



E02 has clean, unamplified balanced line out, but the output stage (e.g., dynamic range) of the DAC chipset in E02 is not as good as A02, so it is a good line out, but not as good as A02.

A02 is the only Audio Motherboard that offers pre-amp feature, that is one of the feature that makes N6ii unique in current DAP market, I have not aware of any DAP offers pre-amp output (voltage gain without current gain).


----------



## Andykong

Nostoi said:


> File under "unusual pairings." The C9 with the Sony WM-D6C. This is one of the few high-end Sony Walkmans of the classic era with a true line-out (and line-in), so it's perfect for external amps. Sounds surprisingly good - warm and smooth, but with a good sense of dynamics.
> 
> Have to say, listening to the ZMF VC on my old AC/DC, Maiden, Metallica tapes from adolescence is a bit of a thrill. The C9 and D6C are also big beasts, and their dimensions suit each other nicely.



This is interesting. The D6C was a professional recorder commonly used by reporters and journalist in the good old day, it is equipped with line out and line in, a rare feature with cassette player.  If you can overcome the maintenance problem of cassette tape, this will be a very interesting music system.  Hong Kong and most part of SE Asia is not a friendly place for magnetic tape, unfortunately.


----------



## Andykong (May 18, 2021)

bigbeans said:


> Only a matter of time until we start seeing C9+ Turntable setups here lol



If you can mute the pop sound when you drop or lift the cartridge, this would be very interesting.  C9 will definitely shine with LP as source.


----------



## fuhransahis

@Andykong a question if I might - the manual shows that in Pre mode the C9 was tested with a 4.2V input in High gain and 8.4V in Low, would there be any issue in using a higher voltage (around 7V) for input when in High gain mode? Not sure if these specs were just how it was tested or if they are the recommended max figures.


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> N6ii Titanium will be competing against AK SE180 I think ?
> 
> This is interesting as a Known Lixurious brand has brought itself down a few levels to compete to Cayin, or Cayin has brought itself up a few levels to compete against AK.  Could be both
> 
> However, it is very interesting to see the direction this hobby is heading toward



I have shared my hard feeling regarding the global shortage of electronic and electrical components.  With that in mind, supply chain might become the biggest battlefield.  Company with strong engineering but weak supply chain will suffer.

Unfortunately, supply chain of Chinese boutique brands is quite often the weaker link in their system.


----------



## Andykong

SBranson said:


> Hmm, I listened for about 1 1/2  hours last night on tube mode and it was quite warm..  hopefully that’s normal.  I’ve had lots of tube amps in the past in 2 channel so I know they can run quite hot.



For classical tube amplifier, the heat from the vacuum tube is substantial.  The Nutube in C9 uses LED to replace the filament, so it basically run cold, the extra heat of tube mode is originated by extra current required by Nutube over the alternative Solid State timbre circuit, so it does run warmer but the different is not as significant as normal vacuum tube vs solid state amplifier.


----------



## Andykong

RTodd said:


> Finding the Cayin case solves the fry an egg issue, unless you need to fry an egg than that is a good thing.
> 
> There is something well done going on here with how Cayin designed that case. No leather here, the black material must be an excellent conductor of energy. Seems it is allowing the heat sink metal of the case to dissipate the heat at a rate that keeps up with its generation on the surface of the C9s housing. I think this is just material science and attention to detail at work here.





RTodd said:


> Yes a lot cooler touching the case vs the C9.
> What I do not know is how much heat is reduced by the case providing separation from vs dissipating heat, likely both going on here.





Whitigir said:


> Yeah, I would think the case would insulate some thermal between the C9 body and the outer leather itself ?



Whitigir is correct, the case makes the C9 more "practical" because you are not touching the metal chassis directly, so you can hold it in your hand comfortably when you playback.  The temperature of the the C9 chassis will increase slightly when it is operated inside the case, but only by a few degree C, it should well within the recommended operation condition of C9.  Be reminded that the components are build to last much higher temperature than we feel comfortable to touch.  For example,  50°C is consider burning hot when you touch the equipment chassis, but 50°C is well-acceptable for PCB and electronic components.


----------



## Andykong

RTodd said:


> You could save some $s and go with a Lotoo PAW6000 it sounds great with the C9 has a true line out, easy to use software, it will even flip the screen so it is facing the right way when sitting on top the C9.
> 
> If someone has the C9, LPGT and the PAW and compared them we could find out if there is a big improvement.
> 
> ...



These are the only three DAP options with a true line out?  I assume you are referring to balanced line out.  For the record, Cayin N8, N6ii(E02) and N6ii (A02) offers unamplified dedicated line out, so we have three entries under one brand already.

Both R8 and new R6 from HiBy also offer DAP with true balanced line out. 

The XLR5 output of AK Kann Cube also offered true balanced line out, but you need to make the right cable for that purpose.

Not sure about other models, I'll be grateful if someone can compile a complete list and I'll pin this to the bottom of the opening post of this thread.


----------



## Andykong

SBranson said:


> Geez..  this C9 continues to amaze me.  Listening to this and even a YouTube mp3 sounds fantastic,
> 
> 
> 
> PS...  I’ll consult the manual tomorrow but can the C9 be used while charging from an external battery or does the power need to be off?




Officially we don't recommend charge and playback at the same time because you might defeat the overcharging protection circuit when you do that.  Other then that, short-term charging and playback under a well-ventilation condition is not a problem. When I run in my C9, I'll charge and playback at the same time occasionally, with that I set an alarm clock in my mobile phone to alert me after 60-90 minutes, depends on the battery status indicator,  and I'll stop charging when the fourth LED start to blink.  Last but not least, your amplifier will run hotter when you charge and playback at the same time, so ventilation is very important.  

If you are not listening to headphone when you charge your C9, please turn off the C9 during charging.  C9 is a pure analog device, there is no boot time delay so there is no point to keep it running when you are not using it.


----------



## Andykong

fuhransahis said:


> @Andykong a question if I might - the manual shows that in Pre mode the C9 was tested with a 4.2V input in High gain and 8.4V in Low, would there be any issue in using a higher voltage (around 7V) for input when in High gain mode? Not sure if these specs were just how it was tested or if they are the recommended max figures.




I believe you are referring to the figures in Input Sensitivity of the specification table.  That figures might server different purpose from what you anticipated. 

First of all, C9 is a headphone amplifier with split-voltage power supply,  the 4x18650 batteries provides stable, rapid transient response, low internal resistance bipolar voltage to C9 without needing DC to DC regulation circuit.  That's why the C9 can offer maximum rated output at high or low gain, at Class A or Class AB.

However, while C9 is capable of delivering the same maximum rated power output in regardless of High or Low gain setting, it does required a higher input level in order to deliver that power output, and that's where input sensitivity kicks in.   Let's take a look at the table:






For balanced line in, if you set C9 to High Gain, then your line input must be rated at 3.0V (or above) otherwise C9 cannot deliver the maximum rated output power as specified.  Likewise, if you set C9 to Low Gain, then your line input must be rated at 6.0V (or above).  For instance, if your  balanced line is rated at 4V, you need to set the amplifier to High Gain IF  YOU NEED full power output of C9.  

Similarly, for balanced Preamp input, if you set C9 to High Gain, then your line preamp must be rated at 3.0V (or above).  If you set C9 to Low Gain, then your Preamp input must be rated at 6.0V (or above).  This is less of a problem relatively because preamp should have voltage gain, so 6V is very common and you can stick with low gain even when you need all the power of C9.  

What happen if we use 4.4V balanced line input or 7V balanced preamp input to C9 when we set C9 to high gain?  That's quite OK, you can reach full power at a earlier volume setting, but if you continue to turn up the volume after that, you might end up with higher distortion, so as long as you use the volume control of C9 (or your source in case of Pre-amp input mode), you are perfectly OK.


----------



## Andykong

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> And the Fantasy.   I like how the Fantasy looks better.





bluestorm1992 said:


> Yeah the Fantasy looks real nice. We should ask @Andykong to prioritize us C9 users in the tour!



There is still a lot of opening in the tour, so whoever joined the tour with C9 in his equipment list, the chance is very good.

Just in case other readers are not family with this top, Cayin is planning a tour on our Fantasy IEM. If you are interested in checking out our latest Beryllium-plated single DD IEM, please sign up *HERE*.


----------



## RTodd (May 18, 2021)

Andykong said:


> These are the only three DAP options with a true line out?  I assume you are referring to balanced line out.  For the record, Cayin N8, N6ii(E02) and N6ii (A02) offers unamplified dedicated line out, so we have three entries under one brand already.
> 
> Both R8 and new R6 from HiBy also offer DAP with true balanced line out.
> 
> ...


Hello Andy,

Sorry about leaving out Cayin products trying to clarify what true line out options there are and what qualifies a DAP or source to be included as true line out.

When using line out on the DAP/source if the answer to both of these questions is yes, does that qualify as true line out?
Or is there a third question?

First is the volume control off the DAP/source no longer in the output circuit?

Second is the amplification circuit of the DAP/source no longer in the output circuit?

There is potentially a third question, related to the gain setting of the DAP/source if that setting only raises/lowers the voltage level would having that setting “not” disqualify the DAP/source from meeting the true line out classification?

The third question may be;

Third does the gain setting of the DAP/source only effect the voltage level of the output?

If we can clarify the questions I think we will have a black and white answer that could be used to create a list of DAP/sources, or at least clarify what to look for when choosing a DAP/source to best pair with an amplifier.


----------



## elira

Is the C9 good for full size headphones or just for IEMs?


----------



## bluestorm1992

elira said:


> Is the C9 good for full size headphones or just for IEMs?


Full size friendly too. People here have paired it with Diana V2, ZMF VC, HD800s, various ATH models, and so on.


----------



## elira

I’ve just ordered a C9, I hope it lives up to the expectations. I’ve had bad experiences with portable amps, in specific the WA11 and the Romi BX2(+). The C9 seems to have great features and I like the replaceable batteries. Let’s see how it goes.


----------



## Nostoi

elira said:


> Is the C9 good for full size headphones or just for IEMs?


Yes, sir. Closed back fiend here and it responds marvellously to them all, from the modest MSR7B to the lofty ZMF VC and all in-between.


----------



## Nostoi

elira said:


> I’ve just ordered a C9, I hope it lives up to the expectations. I’ve had bad experiences with portable amps, in specific the WA11 and the Romi BX2(+). The C9 seems to have great features and I like the replaceable batteries. Let’s see how it goes.


I had the BX2 Plus and never had any issues with it - great amp, in fact. But the build quality on the C9 is in a different league.


----------



## Andykong

RTodd said:


> Hello Andy,
> 
> Sorry about leaving out Cayin products trying to clarify what true line out options there are and what qualifies a DAP or source to be included as true line out.
> 
> ...



I can only comment on Cayin's approach to line out, for obvious reason.  

To certain extend, there won't be any black and white answer because there is no standard in DAP line out, everyone is doing their own version of line out.  Line out in home audio has a fairly standardize practise,  I prefer to stick with that standard if possible.  

In home audio, line out is fixed level un-amplified output from your source: CD player, DAC, phono amp, ...  etc.  Single-ended line out should be 2V to 2.2V, Balanced line out should be 4V - 4.4V.  There shouldn't be any "gain" control in line out because they are supposed to be unamplified signal.   There shouldn't be volume control because they are supposed to be fixed level signal.

Cayin implements the line out of our DAP under the same principles.   Unless we stated the line out as shared line out or shared output with phone out, it will be fixed level un-amplified output from the DAC circuit (buffered output from LPF).  The only feature that we added to our line out was choice of L, M, L level.  In order to allow our DAP to pair with headphone amplifier with very  high gain, we have attenuated our line output level to around 50% and 75% of the standard line output level. 

If you have following our previous discussion along on this subject (*HERE*), you probably aware that there are a lot of "variation" of line out from DAP.  C9 is flexible enough to work with most of them satisfactory, but if you are searching for an ideal line out source for C9, I'll suggested you start with something that is UNAMPLIFIED (i.e., no gain in the signal) and FIXED LEVEL. (i.e., no volume control).


----------



## RTodd

Andykong said:


> I can only comment on Cayin's approach to line out, for obvious reason.
> 
> To certain extend, there won't be any black and white answer because there is no standard in DAP line out, everyone is doing their own version of line out.  Line out in home audio has a fairly standardize practise,  I prefer to stick with that standard if possible.
> 
> ...


Thanks Andy that helps me understand better.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Seems that I have reached the endpoint of my IEM journey with my recent purchases (Mason FS, P6 Pro, SK...), except perhaps getting the Traillii sometime in the future. Getting a bit bored and then pick up my Diana V2 + C9, now with the new mate P6 Pro as the R2R DAC source. WOW!

Maybe time to (re)explore the second rabbit hole - headphones. C9 is the enabler.


----------



## SQ13

bluestorm1992 said:


> Seems that I have reached the endpoint of my IEM journey with my recent purchases (Mason FS, P6 Pro, SK...), except perhaps getting the Traillii sometime in the future. Getting a bit bored and then pick up my Diana V2 + C9, now with the new mate P6 Pro as the R2R DAC source. WOW!
> 
> Maybe time to (re)explore the second rabbit hole - headphones. C9 is the enabler.



maybe checkout the new closed back planar from Kennerton, Rognir. i have not heard it yet but looks good.


----------



## bluestorm1992

SQ13 said:


> maybe checkout the new closed back planar from Kennerton, Rognir. i have not heard it yet but looks good.


Thanks! That’s on my radar too.


----------



## soundblast75

bluestorm1992 said:


> Thanks! That’s on my radar too.


Should be getting them if everything goes according to plan🔜🍻


----------



## bluestorm1992

soundblast75 said:


> Should be getting them if everything goes according to plan🔜🍻


Nice!!! Look forward to your impressions. Especially interested in their pairing with C9.

Here in the US, it will take 1-6 weeks from order to receive one.


----------



## soundblast75

bluestorm1992 said:


> Nice!!! Look forward to your impressions. Especially interested in their pairing with C9.
> 
> Here in the US, it will take 1-6 weeks from order to receive one.


Yeah, my story with this is complicated lol
But should be shipped directly from them in St Peters.
I am waiting to hear about 4.4 adapter


----------



## xand

Andykong said:


> Interesting, why 40mm? why not 50mm for full size can?





Tanalasta said:


> Single dynamic drivers - are perhaps best made of 40mm of Beryllium in a full sized can



Focal Utopia use 40mm beryllium drivers:

https://www.focal.com/sites/www.foc...ent/utopia_specification-sheet-newpack_en.pdf


----------



## jmills8

xand said:


> Focal Utopia use 40mm beryllium drivers:
> 
> https://www.focal.com/sites/www.foc...ent/utopia_specification-sheet-newpack_en.pdf


Looked great , but sounded average.


----------



## Andykong

xand said:


> Focal Utopia use 40mm beryllium drivers:
> 
> https://www.focal.com/sites/www.foc...ent/utopia_specification-sheet-newpack_en.pdf


ZMF is 50mm.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Hi everyone. My first time on this thread. I have recently reviewed the iFi Hip DAC, if it's of interest to anyone. I have a brief comparison to the DF Cobalt here. 

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ifi-audio-hip-dac.24211/reviews#review-25877

Please do share feedback if any since I am starting out with reviews! 

Reviewing mostly for fun.


----------



## SBranson

Almost a week into my C9 and no matter what I listen to I am just utterly amazed at what this does to my Elysium/M8/Eletech.

Tonight digging through the almost 800bg on my card, I had a listen to two versions of "Hide an Seek" by Imogen Heap.

This one by a local a capella quintet:



Such beautiful harmonies and with the C9 they are rendered so perfectly that the timbre of each voice and how they combine is so clear and sweet.  I can follow any of the singers individual lines and then pull focus back to hear them harmonize and just play with the music..

Then of course the original:



I have never really heard what's actually going on here.  I had thought it was a vocal track with some synth in the back but hearing it tonight that I heard that it's all vocal tracks that have been manipulated..  Just amazing hearing all the layers and tones and timbres.  Just phenomenal..

I really feel like I've finally arrived...


----------



## xand

Andykong said:


> ZMF is 50mm.



Yep, but ZMF verite drivers aren't made of beryllium - they instead use beryllium vapor deposed onto a plastic/polymer driver.

Sound pretty good to me too.


----------



## SBranson

bluestorm1992 said:


> Seems that I have reached the endpoint of my IEM journey with my recent purchases (Mason FS, P6 Pro, SK...), except perhaps getting the Traillii sometime in the future. Getting a bit bored and then pick up my Diana V2 + C9, now with the new mate P6 Pro as the R2R DAC source. WOW!
> 
> Maybe time to (re)explore the second rabbit hole - headphones. C9 is the enabler.



Please no more talk about the Diana V2...  I just managed to keep myself from chasing that so I don't want to hear how good it sounds... please..


----------



## woodcans

SBranson said:


> Almost a week into my C9 and no matter what I listen to I am just utterly amazed at what this does to my *Elysium*/M8/Eletech.



The C9 really helps the Ely shine. I am surprised this combo isn't mentioned more often.


----------



## Nostoi

My Lotoo Paw6000 has undergone major trauma and no longer works (pending repair, hopefully).

I don't really keep up with the DAP wars but what's the next go-to DAP with a genuine line out to replace the Lotoo and pair with the C9? I don't stream and I prefer to avoid Android.


----------



## Andykong

Non-Android with high quality balanced line out? Cayin N8 probably is one of the few choice.  If you can find one brand new, they might be in discount too.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (May 19, 2021)

Nostoi said:


> My Lotoo Paw6000 has undergone major trauma and no longer works (pending repair, hopefully).
> 
> I don't really keep up with the DAP wars but what's the next go-to DAP with a genuine line out to replace the Lotoo and pair with the C9? I don't stream and I prefer to avoid Android.


There are not many good non-Android options these days. Except for Lotoo, the other one is the Luxury & precision’s P6 Pro. An R2R DAP; extremely good sound but with a snappy UI. Also quite expensive...

I would actually recommend to look into Hiby R8. It is an Android DAP and it offers a true LO. Its UI is also probably the best out there.

Edit: Oh yes of course, N8 too. I was going to recommend N6ii + A02, but it is too dedicated and also it is kind of impossible to buy a A02 ATM.


----------



## Whitigir

I think N6ii and A02 has just been a collector item lol


----------



## Nostoi

bluestorm1992 said:


> There are not many good non-Android options these days. Except for Lotoo, the other one is the Luxury & precision’s P6 Pro. An R2R DAP; extremely good sound but with a snappy UI. Also quite expensive...
> 
> I would actually recommend to look into Hiby R8. It is an Android DAP and it offers a true LO. Its UI is also probably the best out there.
> 
> Edit: Oh yes of course, N8 too. I was going to recommend N6ii + A02, but it is too dedicated and also it is kind of impossible to buy a A02 ATM.


Cheers, thanks. A bit off-topic, but given E02 is more available, how does it compare to the A02?


----------



## bluestorm1992

Nostoi said:


> Cheers, thanks. A bit off-topic, but given E02 is more available, how does it compare to the A02?


I think it is pretty decent and it offers a true LO. Not as impressive as A02 but still good enough.


----------



## Nostoi

bluestorm1992 said:


> I think it is pretty decent and it offers a true LO. Not as impressive as A02 but still good enough.


Thanks. Will also look into Hilby R8.

Out of interest, anyone paired the C9 with the AK Kann Alpha? Not really a fan of AK, but does seem to have genuine line out.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Nostoi said:


> Thanks. Will also look into Hilby R8.
> 
> Out of interest, anyone paired the C9 with the AK Kann Alpha? Not really a fan of AK, but does seem to have genuine line out.


Does the Kann Alpha still have access to streaming services?
Older A&Ks seem to suffer hard here


----------



## Nostoi

ThanatosVI said:


> Does the Kann Alpha still have access to streaming services?
> Older A&Ks seem to suffer hard here


From what I gather, they never seem to work properly, but that's fine as I never stream.


----------



## Nostoi

Nostoi said:


> From what I gather, they never seem to work properly, but that's fine as I never stream.


Edit - I think the Kann Cube rather than Alpha is the one with a physical line out.


----------



## soundblast75

Nostoi said:


> Thanks. Will also look into Hilby R8.
> 
> Out of interest, anyone paired the C9 with the AK Kann Alpha? Not really a fan of AK, but does seem to have genuine line out.


I have, its somewhat cleaner sounding than P6Pro, i tried it briefly as i am selling the Alpha


----------



## Whitigir

Recently Apple Music has enabled 24/48Khz streaming.  This when paired with A02 as an external DAC into C9 is an awesome stack

What can you beat a dedicated Smartphone interface of the newest IPhone 12Pro Max ? The cleanliness of A02 and dedications of C9 ? With IOS on top of that 

All 3 devices have it own batteries of course


----------



## aaf evo

Whitigir said:


> Recently Apple Music has enabled 24/48Khz streaming.  This when paired with A02 as an external DAC into C9 is an awesome stack
> 
> What can you beat a dedicated Smartphone interface of the newest IPhone 12Pro Max ? The cleanliness of A02 and dedications of C9 ? With IOS on top of that
> 
> All 3 devices have it own batteries of course



i don’t believe their high res is available yet. June 2021.


----------



## Whitigir

aaf evo said:


> i don’t believe their high res is available yet. June 2021.


Yeah, just saying , so there is still time to collect your A02 lol


----------



## hybridnut

I have used P6pro + C9 in Pre-amp mode listening Trailli. I notice that there is always "Click" sound when starting the new track. Does anyone face the same problem with me? Is it normal?


----------



## fiascogarcia

hybridnut said:


> I have used P6pro + C9 in Pre-amp mode listening Trailli. I notice that there is always "Click" sound when starting the new track. Does anyone face the same problem with me? Is it normal?


Yes, I've noticed a tiny click, almost like a little static spark, starting a new track. And it seems to come from the left channel.  Nothing when the track plays, and not loud enough to cause any concern, but it's there.  I have different equipment than you, but it is in the pre-amp mode.


----------



## Whitigir

hybridnut said:


> I have used P6pro + C9 in Pre-amp mode listening Trailli. I notice that there is always "Click" sound when starting the new track. Does anyone face the same problem with me? Is it normal?


Click could be an indication of a switching of some transistors....so far as statics....isn’t that from the digital interfaces of switching data points ? Firmware could fix that, like inject a 0.5 seconds silence or mute to mitigate that


fiascogarcia said:


> Yes, I've noticed a tiny click, almost like a little static spark, starting a new track. And it seems to come from the left channel.  Nothing when the track plays, and not loud enough to cause any concern, but it's there.  I have different equipment than you, but it is in the pre-amp mode.


----------



## jmills8

hybridnut said:


> I have used P6pro + C9 in Pre-amp mode listening Trailli. I notice that there is always "Click" sound when starting the new track. Does anyone face the same problem with me? Is it normal?


Normal


----------



## 111MilesToGo (May 20, 2021)

hybridnut said:


> I have used P6pro + C9 in Pre-amp mode listening Trailli. I notice that there is always "Click" sound when starting the new track. Does anyone face the same problem with me? Is it normal?





fiascogarcia said:


> Yes, I've noticed a tiny click, almost like a little static spark, starting a new track. And it seems to come from the left channel.  Nothing when the track plays, and not loud enough to cause any concern, but it's there.  I have different equipment than you, but it is in the pre-amp mode.





Whitigir said:


> Click could be an indication of a switching of some transistors....so far as statics....isn’t that from the digital interfaces of switching data points ? Firmware could fix that, like inject a 0.5 seconds silence or mute to mitigate that


What do you think to be the source of that click? The L&P P6Pro or the C9? I suppose - or hope - it is the P6Pro. Thx.


----------



## jmills8

111MilesToGo said:


> What do you think to be the source of that click? The L&P P6Pro or the C9? Thx.


Dap


----------



## 111MilesToGo

I went through all combinations of C9 with N6ii (E02, A02) and Hugo 2 by now, if not in depth for some. Using HD800S (even this one!) and Xelento, the latter being not up to the state of everything else.

What a great world opened up to me! Impressive, both regarding SQ and enjoying my music as well as the sheer number of possibilities.

Really nitpicking: Only technical flaw with the C9 - actually it’s stock case - is that the pre-amp mode indicator light isn‘t visible when the C9 is in its case ... just sayin‘.


----------



## Nostoi

bluestorm1992 said:


> There are not many good non-Android options these days. Except for Lotoo, the other one is the Luxury & precision’s P6 Pro. An R2R DAP; extremely good sound but with a snappy UI. Also quite expensive...
> 
> I would actually recommend to look into Hiby R8. It is an Android DAP and it offers a true LO. Its UI is also probably the best out there.
> 
> Edit: Oh yes of course, N8 too. I was going to recommend N6ii + A02, but it is too dedicated and also it is kind of impossible to buy a A02 ATM.


I was just able to score a new N6ii + A02 (and A01) new at a fairly good price. Look forward to hearing what all the fuss is about (and also wonder how this pairing competes with the Hugo 2 + C9 combo).


----------



## RTodd (May 20, 2021)

111MilesToGo said:


> Really nitpicking: Only technical flaw with the C9 - actually it’s stock case - is that the pre-amp mode indicator light isn‘t visible when the C9 is in its case ... just sayin‘.


It may be easy to punch a hole there with a leather punch. just need to cut a block of hardwood to the C9 size to act as the anvil, and measure and mark the outside of the case.

So far I have not even tested that pre amp mode.
So many combinations testing all takes a real long time and a lot of listening. Different modes for the DAP many combinations on the C9 not to mention different drivers different DAPs. Fun and exhausting.

I found a couple combinations I like a lot, lazy or just want to listen and enjoy music is slowing this discovery process down.


----------



## bluestorm1992

There is a new C9 review by @Wiljen. 

Looks like C9 is on a review tour now.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ca...portable-amplifier.24966/reviews#review-25911


----------



## Wiljen

bluestorm1992 said:


> There is a new C9 review by @Wiljen.
> 
> Looks like C9 is on a review tour now.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ca...portable-amplifier.24966/reviews#review-25911



Beat me to it.   I was just headed this way to add a link.    All good - free publicity


----------



## Wiljen

RTodd said:


> It may be easy to punch a hole there with a leather punch. just need to cut a block of hardwood to the C9 size to act as the anvil, and measure and mark the outside of the case.
> 
> So far I have not even tested that pre amp mode.
> So many combinations testing all takes a real long time and a lot of listening. Different modes for the DAP many combinations on the C9 not to mention different drivers different DAPs. Fun and exhausting.
> ...


Gotta agree it took awhile to sort all the modes out and really get a solid compare between them.  For me, Line-in mode, Tube, AB is my preference.   I found in pre-in I seemed to lose a little bit of the dynamics that line in offered, AB gives better bass punch and I'm a tube guy, always have been.


----------



## ian91

Wiljen said:


> Gotta agree it took awhile to sort all the modes out and really get a solid compare between them.  For me, Line-in mode, Tube, AB is my preference.   I found in pre-in I seemed to lose a little bit of the dynamics that line in offered, AB gives better bass punch and I'm a tube guy, always have been.



Line in for the win!


----------



## Wiljen

ian91 said:


> Line in for the win!



Hard to nitpick the C9, its a win in just about every mode.   Not a bad choice in the lot, just some slightly better than others.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Wiljen said:


> Gotta agree it took awhile to sort all the modes out and really get a solid compare between them.  For me, Line-in mode, Tube, AB is my preference.   I found in pre-in I seemed to lose a little bit of the dynamics that line in offered, AB gives better bass punch and I'm a tube guy, always have been.


Great Review.
Guess as soon as I need a portable amp I should get one.

Currently I am still hoping that Cayin releases a R2R + Tube DAP until the pandemic is over


----------



## fuhransahis

Does anyone have any thoughts on what sorts of desktop amps the C9 compares to, form-factor and versatility aside, whether SS or Tube?


----------



## gazzington

Evening relaxation. Damn this combo sounds good


----------



## gazzington

gazzington said:


> Evening relaxation. Damn this combo sounds good


The c9 turns the n8 in to an n8 pro or something!


----------



## bluestorm1992 (May 20, 2021)

fuhransahis said:


> Does anyone have any thoughts on what sorts of desktop amps the C9 compares to, form-factor and versatility aside, whether SS or Tube?


I have previously owned the Broadway amp from Xiaudio. They performance almost the same with my Abyss Diana V2. Not sonic/timbre-wise, just the overall performance.


----------



## bluestorm1992

I am very aware that the V2 is not easy to drive. The popular Topping A90 may have just enough juice for it, but sonic-wise it is not a good match and it makes V2 sounded flat.

So, I guess this exercise says that there is really very limited benefit to buy a 1K desktop amp after getting C9. The Broadway amp is a 2K battery amp, and I don’t think it outperforms C9 either.


----------



## Nostoi

fuhransahis said:


> Does anyone have any thoughts on what sorts of desktop amps the C9 compares to, form-factor and versatility aside, whether SS or Tube?


I'd say it's at least as dynamic as the Pro iCan (and to my ears more engaging than the former).


----------



## Wiljen

fuhransahis said:


> Does anyone have any thoughts on what sorts of desktop amps the C9 compares to, form-factor and versatility aside, whether SS or Tube?


I found the C9 in tube AB mode was similar to the Auris Euterpe tonally.  In solid-state class A I thought the other amps that were closest to it are probably the Pass HPA-1 and the SparkOS Aries.


----------



## fuhransahis

Wiljen said:


> I found the C9 in tube AB mode was similar to the Auris Euterpe tonally.  In solid-state class A I thought the other amps that were closest to it are probably the Pass HPA-1 and the SparkOS Aries.



Thanks that's a nice set of amps to compare to, glad to see the C9 stacking favorably against relatively expensive desktop amps without sacrificing performance for portability 

Only desktop amp I've had was the Feliks Echo but that was paired with the Auteur, neither of which I have any longer so couldn't compare there.


----------



## fuhransahis

Update on semi-rigging the C9 for hopefully better airflow - got some black rubber conical feet to let the bottom breathe, and some command strips to allow for breathing room between the DAP, they also make it easier to pick up the stack when using a short IC cable.

Oh also ended up buying the C9's case, I think @RTodd was right in stating it seems to help dissipate heat with its metal frames.

Quite nifty for my purposes!


----------



## xand

fuhransahis said:


> Oh also ended up buying the C9's case, I think @RTodd was right in stating it seems to help dissipate heat with its metal frames.



The case means your C9 runs hotter, it just insulates you from the C9 better. 

This would be expected by casual observation and has been confirmed by Andy (see below).

However the C9 is probably still within specification when used with its case.

From: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...phone-amplifier.943135/page-281#post-16360140


Andykong said:


> Whitigir is correct, the case makes the C9 more "practical" because you are not touching the metal chassis directly, so you can hold it in your hand comfortably when you playback.  The temperature of the the C9 chassis will increase slightly when it is operated inside the case, but only by a few degree C, it should well within the recommended operation condition of C9.  Be reminded that the components are build to last much higher temperature than we feel comfortable to touch.  For example,  50°C is consider burning hot when you touch the equipment chassis, but 50°C is well-acceptable for PCB and electronic components.


----------



## fuhransahis

xand said:


> The case means your C9 runs hotter, it just insulates you from the C9 better.
> 
> This would be expected by casual observation and has been confirmed by Andy (see below).
> 
> ...



I'd rather pretend the $80 case works some cooling magic thank you very much 😛


----------



## RTodd (May 21, 2021)

fuhransahis said:


> I'd rather pretend the $80 case works some cooling magic thank you very much 😛


That is what I was thinking to,
it does have fins after all.
Let us have our own beliefs.

There are a lot of holes in that case not believing much heat is getting trapped. 
And a lot holes in my theory apparently.

Defer to the expert, and just pretend I did not hear that.


----------



## fuhransahis

RTodd said:


> That is what I was thinking to, it does have fins after all. Let us have our own beliefs.
> 
> There are a lot of holes in that case not believing much heat is getting trapped. And a lot holes in my theory apparently.
> 
> Defer to the expert, and just pretend I did not here that.



Those metal fins clearly redirect the heat from the core of the C9 to special cells within the unique material the case is made of. That is then stored energy that the case uses to charge the C9 safely during playback.

#science right?


----------



## RTodd

fuhransahis said:


> Those metal fins clearly redirect the heat from the core of the C9 to special cells within the unique material the case is made of. That is then stored energy that the case uses to charge the C9 safely during playback.
> 
> #science right?


Well this morning I had my C9 running with the case on and no matter how long I waited the egg would not cook. Ended up late for work.
No choice I had to take the case off.


----------



## fuhransahis

RTodd said:


> Well this morning I had my C9 running with the case on and no matter how long I waited the egg would not cook. Ended up late for work.
> No choice I had to take the case off.



Seems like a defective unit, part of the reason the fins are metal is they should act like a rippled frying pan. Hmm...


----------



## RTodd

fuhransahis said:


> Seems like a defective unit, part of the reason the fins are metal is they should act like a rippled frying pan. Hmm...


I’ll call Andrew tomorrow.


----------



## fuhransahis

RTodd said:


> I’ll call Andrew tomorrow.



You may want to experiment with egg rolling.

Once you match the right egg, the case lets you expand the C9's versatility by matching your egg burn-in style to your music genre. From pg 4 of the case's nonexistent manual:

Sunny side up: Pop
Over-easy: Lounge
Scrambled: Rock/Metal
Soft boiled: Hip Hop
Hard boiled: Rap
Poached: Classical
Omelette: Salsa
Overcooked and tasteless: Auto-tune, Justin Bieber, Current-form of Coldplay

Bargain for what it gives you, actually.


----------



## RTodd (May 20, 2021)

fuhransahis said:


> You may want to experiment with egg rolling.
> 
> Once you match the right egg, the case lets you expand the C9's versatility by matching your egg burn-in style to your music genre. From pg 4 of the case's nonexistent manual:
> 
> ...


My favorites;
Thousand Year Old: Willie Nelson
Frittata: Tania Maria
Quiche: Bee Gees
Desert;
Flan: Dream Theater


----------



## Andykong

bluestorm1992 said:


> There is a new C9 review by @Wiljen.
> 
> Looks like C9 is on a review tour now.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ca...portable-amplifier.24966/reviews#review-25911



Its amazing you can beat Wiljen on this,  well done.

I don't have enough C9 sample to host a proper tour, so I contacted several US reviewers from N6ii tour for a mini tour.


----------



## Andykong

Wiljen said:


> Gotta agree it took awhile to sort all the modes out and really get a solid compare between them.  For me, Line-in mode, Tube, AB is my preference.   I found in pre-in I seemed to lose a little bit of the dynamics that line in offered, AB gives better bass punch and I'm a tube guy, always have been.



That's why I set a longer reviewer time when compare to other DAP or IEM tour, C9 is versatile and ADDICTIVE, quite often I can listen to C9 for 2 hours before I "wake" up and continue my work.  

By the way, did you try any not-so-sensitive IEM with C9?


----------



## Andykong

ThanatosVI said:


> Great Review.
> Guess as soon as I need a portable amp I should get one.
> 
> Currently I am still hoping that Cayin releases a R2R + Tube DAP until the pandemic is over



I can't discuss future product, or non-existence of future product, so let's skip that and jump to the second part of your statement.  Do you think pandemic is over soon?  By end of 2021? or end of 2022?  One of the collateral damage of the pandemic is worldwide shortage in electrical and electronic components, This has caused serious stress to our Supply Chain and new product development is suffering.


----------



## decur

Not only supply chain issues with electronics,
But in home construction,automotive and many many more industries...


----------



## Wiljen

Andykong said:


> That's why I set a longer reviewer time when compare to other DAP or IEM tour, C9 is versatile and ADDICTIVE, quite often I can listen to C9 for 2 hours before I "wake" up and continue my work.
> 
> By the way, did you try any not-so-sensitive IEM with C9?



I did and it did a great job with the Hifiman Re2000 Silver and the Dunu Zen so it just needs the ie-match if using things like Andros that are a bit hyper sensitive.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Andykong said:


> I can't discuss future product, or non-existence of future product, so let's skip that and jump to the second part of your statement.  Do you think pandemic is over soon?  By end of 2021? or end of 2022?  One of the collateral damage of the pandemic is worldwide shortage in electrical and electronic components, This has caused serious stress to our Supply Chain and new product development is suffering.


To be honest, I Don't think the pandemic will be over any time soon.

I don't even expect so see the office again this year or for the gyms to reopen in my country.

Therefore I don't need a DAP any time soon and can play the waiting game.
By the time the daily life is mostly back to a pre pandemic Status, maybe my dream device is released. 
And if not there is the Fallback of N6ii +R01 + C9.
However step one of receiving what you want, is to make your need known


----------



## Whitigir (May 21, 2021)

decur said:


> Not only supply chain issues with electronics,
> But in home construction,automotive and many many more industries...


Agreed, virtually in every corner of life.  It goes so far that makes you realizes that the society will not just move on it own.  Especially humans, no one will be moving by themselves, unless and otherwise having some clear goals in mind.

In the States, the majority of older and experienced workers have realized that they have burned away their life dedicated to works and labors, and Covid makes them realize that life is more than that.  So they left a void to be filled in.  The younger generations is about similar that they were either enabled or having the same mind set of working just enough to cover the expenses.  So they care less about working and being productive.

There are many places, entities, companies, offering high paying wages to hope to get the economy flowing, the businesses to get up and going, but they just won’t be motivated enough.

So, we have a lot going on than just Covid.  I think that we are going to come to the point where when you have money, you may not be able to find the things you want either.  ..  .. lol


----------



## RTodd (May 23, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> Agreed, virtually in every corner of life.  It goes so far that makes you realizes that the society will not just move on it own.  Especially humans, no one will be moving by themselves, unless and otherwise having some clear goals in mind.
> 
> In the States, the majority of older and experienced workers have realized that they have burned away their life dedicated to works and labors, and Covid makes them realize that life is more than that.  So they left a void to be filled in.  The younger generations is about similar that they were either enabled or having the same mind set of working just enough to cover the expenses.  So they care less about working and being productive.
> 
> ...


Bit of a Sunday morning ramble, apologizing in advance.

Like the point that COVID influenced many to think more about passions, and what really matters to get the most out of what time they have left. Causing an increase in demand for some product categories. There were no doubt some winners and many losers. I was talking with the owner of a local pizza shop and he proclaimed the best year he has ever had.

Our shared passion for the music and the hardware to get the most out of it, is impacted, the music is safe, artists will always produce even if they live on the street, poor as dirt. The current supply chain issues are temporary.

The US culture is different than anywhere else I have been, not better, Americans tend to prioritize their lives in this order Career, Family, Vacation. Where vacation will often give way if needed.

I do not think that COVID has fundamentally changed the US culture to now prioritize leisure activities above productive careers.


----------



## DaYooper

RTodd said:


> Bit of a Sunday morning ramble, apologizing in advance.
> 
> Like the point that COVID influenced many to think more about passions, and what really matters to get the most out of what time they have left. Causing an increase in demand for some product categories. There were no doubt some winners and many losers. I was talking with the owner of a local pizza shop and he proclaimed the best year he has ever had.
> 
> ...


Fortunately, real life is far more complicated than these, uhm, views.


----------



## RTodd

RTodd said:


> It may be easy to punch a hole there with a leather punch. just need to cut a block of hardwood to the C9 size to act as the anvil, and measure and mark the outside of the case.
> 
> So far I have not even tested that pre amp mode.
> So many combinations testing all takes a real long time and a lot of listening. Different modes for the DAP many combinations on the C9 not to mention different drivers different DAPs. Fun and exhausting.
> ...


Took a close look at the case and the Pre indicator light is almost lined up with the start of the vent slots on the side. It feels like the metal strip is inside where that hole would be needed. It is not going to be as easy as I thought to simply punch a hole.

Best to leave it be, likely not going to look very good as the hole would overlap the existing gap in the case. A leather punch is likely not going to cut through that metal, so a drill or something would also have to be used.


----------



## fiascogarcia

RTodd said:


> Took a close look at the case and the Pre indicator light is almost lined up with the start of the vent slots on the side. It feels like the metal strip is inside where that hole would be needed. It is not going to be as easy as I thought to simply punch a hole.
> 
> Best to leave it be, likely not going to look very good as the hole would overlap the existing gap in the case. A leather punch is likely not going to cut through that metal, so a drill or something would also have to be used.


Yeah, and besides that, the light is so tiny it's almost undetectable anyway.


----------



## Tybot

Howdy all.  Soon to be new C9 owner.  Question...I have previously used a PWAudio 3.5+4.4 to 4.4 pigtail with Sony WM1A to Woo Audio WA11.  If I recall correctly, the pigtail was highly recommended to prevent causing damage to the WA11 because of Sony's grounding or lack there of the 4.4 output.  Is there ANY reason to use or not to use the pigtail with the Sony to the C9?  

Same question but with the C9 and a Hiby R8 using 3.5+4.4 out to 4.4 in.  Will it help, do nothing or cause a big explosion?  

Thanks for any help.


----------



## fiascogarcia

Tybot said:


> Howdy all.  Soon to be new C9 owner.  Question...I have previously used a PWAudio 3.5+4.4 to 4.4 pigtail with Sony WM1A to Woo Audio WA11.  If I recall correctly, the pigtail was highly recommended to prevent causing damage to the WA11 because of Sony's grounding or lack there of the 4.4 output.  Is there ANY reason to use or not to use the pigtail with the Sony to the C9?
> 
> Same question but with the C9 and a Hiby R8 using 3.5+4.4 out to 4.4 in.  Will it help, do nothing or cause a big explosion?
> 
> Thanks for any help.


I'm using a WM1Z without a pigtail, using the Pre mode, with no problems.  With a short interconnect, C9 will work with grounded or ungrounded, as I recall AndyKong stating in a previous post.


----------



## Tanalasta (May 24, 2021)

My C9 arrived today.

Holy ***


ROON -> 2Go/Hugo 2-> C9. Don't use the H2 line-out mode (well, all it does is turn the output to max -> it's too much for the Cayin C9 and resulted in horrid distortion). Simply dialled it back a notch to blue on the volume control. Line mode. High gain required for the HD800S. Low gain results in not quite  enough dynamic attack.

The sound is so beautifully clean. So it damn well should be out of the Hugo 2. But that Class A, Tube goodness paired to the HD800S. They've totally given these headphones a new lease of life. Warm, tube-ey Class A with the wide soundstage, separation and detail from the HD800S. Vocals are just soooo smooth and musical. That musicality I normally associate from the Empyrean but in the HD800S?

I am enjoying it so much I haven't even gotten around to plugging in the Utopia/Empyrean/Trailli.

Spend money improving the source => +++ Very happy audiophile.


----------



## Tanalasta

I should also add that the replacement MacBook Rubber feet (easily available on iFixit ; Amazon etc) are the perfect feet to stick to the bottom fo the C9


----------



## bluestorm1992 (May 24, 2021)

Fellows! Cayin just released their C9 battery tray module (does NOT come with the batteries). The price is around $100.

Link to the Chinese post with some more pics: https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/LAdqR3_oSouBlpwATBAgQw


----------



## Tybot (May 24, 2021)

fiascogarcia said:


> I'm using a WM1Z without a pigtail, using the Pre mode, with no problems.  With a short interconnect, C9 will work with grounded or ungrounded, as I recall AndyKong stating in a previous post.


Thank you!

Just so I fully understand. The pigtail is not at all needed but it would be ok to use it since I already have it?


----------



## Andykong (May 25, 2021)

The *C9 battery module* is available now.  The suggested retail price is US$99, it might take a short while before it arrive your local dealer, so please contact them for local availability.


----------



## fiascogarcia

Tybot said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Just so I fully understand. The pigtail is not at all needed but it would be ok to use it since I already have it?


Should be OK, but you could try the stock I/C and see if you hear any difference.


----------



## Tybot

fiascogarcia said:


> Should be OK, but you could try the stock I/C and see if you hear any difference.


I'm 99% sure I won't be able to hear any difference.


----------



## jmills8

Tybot said:


> I'm 99% sure I won't be able to hear any difference.


If you believe you wont then you wont.


----------



## Zambu

jmills8 said:


> If you believe you wont then you wont.


But there's several layers to it and much of it is subconscious so, you may believe that you don't believe but actually you believe that you believe that you don't or that you believe that you believe that you believe that you do (or don't )


----------



## slumberman

any suggestion on where to find a C9 for sale in Europe? would love to purchase one, thanks!


----------



## 425455 (May 24, 2021)

drlorks said:


> Does anyone have any experience of battery life on this with full size cans?



Anyone ..? more specifically planars like the Solitaire P?



slumberman said:


> any suggestion on where to find a C9 for sale in Europe? would love to purchase one, thanks!



not quite europe but may be close enough?

https://www.hifonix.co.uk/detail/cayin-c9-reference-portable-headphone-amplifier


----------



## fuhransahis

drlorks said:


> Anyone ..? more specifically planars like the Solitaire P?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm using with Empy and pretty much goes by the listed battery specs. I'm usually on SS/A mode, so around 7hrs or so - if I listen all day during work, I'll charge it during lunch time, then get back on it and it'll make it through the work day.


----------



## jmills8

Zambu said:


> But there's several layers to it and much of it is subconscious so, you may believe that you don't believe but actually you believe that you believe that you don't or that you believe that you believe that you believe that you do (or don't )


Yep , if you want to buy something then you believe , later you dont want to spend so you now do not believe.


----------



## slumberman

drlorks said:


> Anyone ..? more specifically planars like the Solitaire P?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I’d rather not pay import taxes but thanks anyway!


----------



## Mej35

Tanalasta said:


> My C9 arrived today.
> 
> Holy ***
> 
> ...


Let me know how they sound on the Mezes. Thinking about getting this for my LCD4z.


----------



## Nostoi

slumberman said:


> I’d rather not pay import taxes but thanks anyway!


I ordered from AMP3 in the UK. They subtracted the VAT when sending to EU in anticipation of import taxes (about £300), but in fact when I received it here in Vienna, there was no fee at all, so I ended up getting a very good price for me, albeit with some good luck (plus there was a mother's day discount during that month, which was an additional 10% off, I think). 

Otherwise, Son Video stock it at full RRP: https://www.son-video.com/article/haute-fidelite-amplificateurs-amplis-casque/cayin/c9


----------



## ThanatosVI

Nostoi said:


> I ordered from AMP3 in the UK. They subtracted the VAT when sending to EU in anticipation of import taxes (about £300), but in fact when I received it here in Vienna, there was no fee at all, so I ended up getting a very good price for me, albeit with some good luck (plus there was a mother's day discount during that month, which was an additional 10% off, I think).
> 
> Otherwise, Son Video stock it at full RRP: https://www.son-video.com/article/haute-fidelite-amplificateurs-amplis-casque/cayin/c9


In both cases you won't have manufacturer warranty tho, and should check the dealers International warranty terms. 

Son-video offers some Cayin products at good prices (compared to most of europe) but Cayin only grants warranty to the initial buyer in the country of sale.


----------



## Nostoi (May 24, 2021)

ThanatosVI said:


> In both cases you won't have manufacturer warranty tho, and should check the dealers International warranty terms.
> 
> Son-video offers some Cayin products at good prices (compared to most of europe) but Cayin only grants warranty to the initial buyer in the country of sale.


From what I gather, AMP3 have international warranty, just as MusicTeck do, and many other major stockists.

I've had things sent back to Paris with Son Video for repairs before and found them very efficient to deal with, so would be confident with ordering from them (I have a Cayin N6II + A02 on its way presently from them).

BTW: given that there's only a handful of EU stockists of Cayin goods - and none in Austria as far as I can tell - it would seem odd if they didn't offer warranty service if bought from another EU country.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Nostoi said:


> I've had things sent back to Paris with Son Video for repairs before and found them very efficient to deal with, so would be confident with ordering from them (I have a Cayin N6II + A02 on its way presently from them).


That's interesting, their site states that they don't offer International warranty.
Glad if they do, then I might purchase from them agsin if I decide to get a Cayin DAP


----------



## Nostoi

ThanatosVI said:


> That's interesting, their site states that they don't offer International warranty.
> Glad if they do, then I might purchase from them agsin if I decide to get a Cayin DAP


They fixed my Fostex HP-V1 - long since discontinued but once available through Son-Video - without any quibbles. When I lived in Paris, I also bought a Mojo from them and they also fixed that when I moved to Vienna soon after. The Fostex was only last year, so unless they've changed their policy, it should be ok.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Nostoi said:


> They fixed my Fostex HP-V1 - long since discontinued but once available through Son-Video - without any quibbles. When I lived in Paris, I also bought a Mojo from them and they also fixed that when I moved to Vienna soon after. The Fostex was only last year, so unless they've changed their policy, it should be ok.


Thanks for sharing your experience here.
This might really influence future purchases for me


----------



## Nostoi

ThanatosVI said:


> Thanks for sharing your experience here.
> This might really influence future purchases for me


I think so long as it's bought through the website, then you have same rights as if living in France:

"Le présent contrat ne s'applique qu'aux appareils achetés sur le site Internet ou dans les boutiques Son-Vidéo.com et donnant lieu à une prise en charge sur le territoire de la France métropolitaine."


----------



## Nostoi

Andykong said:


> The *C9 battery module* is available now.  The suggested retail price is US$99, it might take a short while before it arrive your local dealer, so please contact them for local availability.


This is good to see, thanks. Can I ask: is there any danger in using a 40W QC supply to charge the batteries? I assume the 40W charger will convert to 18W but just want to be sure...


----------



## buson160man

Wow very sexy design. A real looker and looks to be very well built. Bet it sounds like a honey.


----------



## chrisgtl

Can I use my L&P W2 feeding the Cayin C9?


----------



## Nostoi

Just got the N6II/A02 for my C9 and I'm happy to confirm: the hype is real! Lovely combo from such a small package. The A02 also scales *super* well, sounding top notch from my Sparkos Aries Lab SS amp and easily rivalling a desktop DAC. Well played, Cayin. Look forward to trying out the R2R module when it comes.


----------



## Tanalasta

buson160man said:


> Wow very sexy design. A real looker and looks to be very well built. Bet it sounds like a honey.


The Class A, Tube comes close!


----------



## bluestorm1992

chrisgtl said:


> Can I use my L&P W2 feeding the Cayin C9?


It can and the performance is OK, certainly not as good as from a DAP though; the dap does not need to be very high-end. A Hiby R6 can do the job well.


----------



## Mej35

My audio needs are about 75% desktop 25% portable. There are a lot of things I'm liking about this amp but it would have been great if Cayin made a swappable module that replaces the battery tray that would allow you to run this amp plugged in without any concerns.


----------



## Nostoi

Mej35 said:


> My audio needs are about 75% desktop 25% portable. There are a lot of things I'm liking about this amp but it would have been great if Cayin made a swappable module that replaces the battery tray that would allow you to run this amp plugged in without any concerns.


Very good idea. Count me in. Something like Hugo 2's desktop mode would be most welcome.


----------



## bigbeans

An incredibly kind HeadFi member allowed me to procure one of these. I'll never be the same again   
When my N6ii comes back from repair, I will be privy to the highly lauded C9+A02 stack!!


----------



## ian91

Consistently impressed by the C9. Just for fun I decided to try my BLON BL-01 powered by the C9 (4.4 bal in, 3.5 unbal out, Class A, tube). Previously I had only run the BL-01 via a dongle. While they aren't spectacular in any particular regard, they have really come alive on the C9 and the value proposition is insane (provided you have a C9!)

I have to be totally honest - the tuning reminds me of the Traillii in many ways, and gets a significant distance of the way there, which is incredible. Obviously technicalities are a different matter.

Anyone have any other fun or suprising pairings they've discovered?


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

ian91 said:


> Consistently impressed by the C9. Just for fun I decided to try my BLON BL-01 powered by the C9 (4.4 bal in, 3.5 unbal out, Class A, tube). Previously I had only run the BL-01 via a dongle. While they aren't spectacular in any particular regard, they have really come alive on the C9 and the value proposition is insane (provided you have a C9!)
> 
> I have to be totally honest - the tuning reminds me of the Traillii in many ways, and gets a significant distance of the way there, which is incredible. Obviously technicalities are a different matter.
> 
> Anyone have any other fun or suprising pairings they've discovered?


I hear that if you pair a BL01 with the C9 and this cable

https://shop.musicteck.com/collecti...orpheus-with-shielding?variant=39425732018238

that it will sound better than the Traillii.   It's a miracle.


----------



## MarkParity

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I hear that if you pair a BL01 with the C9 and this cable
> 
> https://shop.musicteck.com/collecti...orpheus-with-shielding?variant=39425732018238
> 
> that it will sound better than the Traillii.   It's a miracle.


 it will but what if I use that cable with the Trailli? Other than me being more than 10 grand poorer.


----------



## chrisgtl

Got one on the way along with a P6Pro. Can't wait! 😁


----------



## bluestorm1992

ian91 said:


> Consistently impressed by the C9. Just for fun I decided to try my BLON BL-01 powered by the C9 (4.4 bal in, 3.5 unbal out, Class A, tube). Previously I had only run the BL-01 via a dongle. While they aren't spectacular in any particular regard, they have really come alive on the C9 and the value proposition is insane (provided you have a C9!)
> 
> I have to be totally honest - the tuning reminds me of the Traillii in many ways, and gets a significant distance of the way there, which is incredible. Obviously technicalities are a different matter.
> 
> Anyone have any other fun or suprising pairings they've discovered?


My best discoveries are from “affordable” (around $500) 1DD IEMs with C9. Really elevates their performance for several leagues there.


----------



## ThanatosVI

bluestorm1992 said:


> My best discoveries are from “affordable” (around $500) 1DD IEMs with C9. Really elevates their performance for several leagues there.


I'm curious how the following IEMS perform with C9:
Shure Se846 
HIFIMAN re2000 silver 
Meze Rai Penta


----------



## bigbeans

ian91 said:


> Consistently impressed by the C9. Just for fun I decided to try my BLON BL-01 powered by the C9 (4.4 bal in, 3.5 unbal out, Class A, tube). Previously I had only run the BL-01 via a dongle. While they aren't spectacular in any particular regard, they have really come alive on the C9 and the value proposition is insane (provided you have a C9!)
> 
> I have to be totally honest - the tuning reminds me of the Traillii in many ways, and gets a significant distance of the way there, which is incredible. Obviously technicalities are a different matter.
> 
> Anyone have any other fun or suprising pairings they've discovered?


Dunu Zen with C9 is a fabulous pairing that takes it to LCD4 intensity. I think any C9 owner should experience Zen at least once with C9, not to do so is missing out on something great.


----------



## ian91

bigbeans said:


> Dunu Zen with C9 is a fabulous pairing that takes it to LCD4 intensity. I think any C9 owner should experience Zen at least once with C9, not to do so is missing out on something great.



Going to look a bit closer at Dunu Zen and other DDs when I have the funds. DDs have the most scaling potential for sure.



bluestorm1992 said:


> My best discoveries are from “affordable” (around $500) 1DD IEMs with C9. Really elevates their performance for several leagues there.



Love it! Also, just seen your signature and you've got the 3DT on the way. Make sure you join us over in the 3DT thread!


----------



## bigbeans

ian91 said:


> Going to look a bit closer at Dunu Zen and other DDs when I have the funds. DDs have the most scaling potential for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> Love it! Also, just seen your signature and you've got the 3DT on the way. Make sure you join us over in the 3DT thread!


I would advise iematch by ifi. I use the C9 4.4 from ZEN DAC Signature, then 3.5mm plug on Zen. The real breakthrough will be when ifi releases 4.4mm IEMatch..come on guys  @iFi audio


----------



## ian91

bigbeans said:


> I would advise iematch by ifi. I use the C9 4.4 from ZEN DAC Signature, then 3.5mm plug on Zen. The real breakthrough will be when ifi releases 4.4mm IEMatch..come on guys  @iFi audio



I have the 3.5 iematch, but I haven't needed to use it much with the C9, the background has been black enough in most cases. Good little device!


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (May 26, 2021)

I just got home last night after a long trip away.    So, the first thing I wanted to do is try out my C9 with all of my full sized cans.     After spending so much time with IEMS over the last few weeks, it's really nice to hear full sized headphones again.    First and foremost, the C9 pairs the best with the Hugo 2 for full sized headphones.    My Hiby R6 2020 isn't high quality enough to really achieve their full potential and it is very striking how much so.    I need to find a DAP that pairs with the C9 as well as the Hugo 2.   Any recommendations?

Anyway, I've been listening to HD 800S, ZMF Verite Closed, Hifiman Ananda and Focal Clear.    All headphones benefited significantly from the pairing with the C9.  The HD800S gets a better bass response to go along with the huge sound stage and overall clarity.  Still can't beat them for Classical Music and Jazz.    Bass response isn't good enough for other genre relative to the alternatives.   

ZMF VC really gets to the next level with the C9 + Hugo 2 as I reported before.   I had family and friends listen to the VC and they all universally said this was the best headphones they have ever heard.   They wanted to know it's price to get one for themselves.   They took a pause when I told them.   The detail and richness and 3D  presentation of the sound is really striking.  My friend said he had never heard guitar plucks before in the songs he listened to.

The Hifiman Ananda really saw a big improvement in sound quality.   I love the tonality and sound signature of the Anandas, but the problem I've had with them is the bass response and the timbre.    The bass showed a remarkable improvement in level and texture.  Still short on punch and slam, but great overall improvement.   I was going to sell them, but the improvement was good enough to keep them.

I just picked up a Focal Clear from the close out at Headphones.com of the OG Clear.   I must admit, I am a bit disappointed in the Clear OG relative to the others on this list.    I loved it standalone and they sound great if I don't listen to anything else.  But, when I A/B test them against all of the above, they come out last.    They are new, so maybe they need to burn in.   I decided to get a Utopia to replace the Clears in my full sized headphone line up.

All and all, I love the Hugo 2 + C9 pairing for full sized headphones.   I think this is not an obvious set up that can be on anyone's list as their permanent desktop system for a TOTL system.    You can get a full sized desk top set up, but with the Hugo 2 + C9, you have both a transportable and a desktop all in one.

Edited to note:    The C9 does a really good job at accentuating what a given set of headphones is good at.    When listening to all 4 of these headphones, they all sound distinctly different.    You need to spend time listening to a lot of music to determine which version of the music you prefer.   To me, it's like having 4 favorite restaurants that I can sample any time I feel the urge for that specific flavor.


----------



## Nostoi

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I just got home last night after a long trip away.    So, the first thing I wanted to do is try out my C9 with all of my full sized cans.     After spending so much time with IEMS over the last few weeks, it's really nice to hear full sized headphones again.    First and foremost, the C9 pairs the best with the Hugo 2 for full sized headphones.    My Hiby R6 2020 isn't high quality enough to really achieve their full potential and it is very striking how much so.    I need to find a DAP that pairs with the C9 as well as the Hugo 2.   Any recommendations?
> 
> Anyway, I've been listening to HD 800S, ZMF Verite Closed, Hifiman Ananda and Focal Clear.    All headphones benefited significantly from the pairing with the C9.  The HD800S gets a better bass response to go along with the huge sound stage and overall clarity.  Still can't beat them for Classical Music and Jazz.    Bass response isn't good enough for other genre relative to the alternatives.
> 
> ...


Agree with you about the Hugo 2/C9/VC combo - magical. 

You asked about DAP alternatives, like many people here, I find the N6ii/A02 + C9 a stellar combo. It doesn't quite have the technical prowess of the Hugo 2 (though is close) but it's incredibly musical and immensely satisfying.


----------



## greenmac

Would love to see pictures of your set up, C9 + Hugo2 + ZMF Verite

Any chance ?




HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I just got home last night after a long trip away.    So, the first thing I wanted to do is try out my C9 with all of my full sized cans.     After spending so much time with IEMS over the last few weeks, it's really nice to hear full sized headphones again.    First and foremost, the C9 pairs the best with the Hugo 2 for full sized headphones.    My Hiby R6 2020 isn't high quality enough to really achieve their full potential and it is very striking how much so.    I need to find a DAP that pairs with the C9 as well as the Hugo 2.   Any recommendations?
> 
> Anyway, I've been listening to HD 800S, ZMF Verite Closed, Hifiman Ananda and Focal Clear.    All headphones benefited significantly from the pairing with the C9.  The HD800S gets a better bass response to go along with the huge sound stage and overall clarity.  Still can't beat them for Classical Music and Jazz.    Bass response isn't good enough for other genre relative to the alternatives.
> 
> ...


----------



## Nostoi (May 26, 2021)

greenmac said:


> Would love to see pictures of your set up, C9 + Hugo2 + ZMF Verite
> 
> Any chance ?


Here's one


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

greenmac said:


> Would love to see pictures of your set up, C9 + Hugo2 + ZMF Verite
> 
> Any chance ?


Sure, I'll need to set up my topping rack.    I don't have everything to complete the set up yet including proper interconnects, but the sound is really really good.   I"ll do it when I catch up from being away for so long.     By the way, I am going set it up with my 2go again.   Now that it doesn't need EQ, I am going to take advantage of the streaming capabilities of the 2go.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Nostoi said:


> Here's one


Dang.  Beat me to it.     That is exactly how I am going to set mine up with the DAP on top and the Hugo 2 on the bottom.   What are you using as the interconnect between the Hugo 2 and C9?   I am going RCA out to 3.5mm in.


----------



## Nostoi

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Dang.  Beat me to it.     That is exactly how I am going to set mine up with the DAP on top and the Hugo 2 on the bottom.   What are you using as the interconnect between the Hugo 2 and C9?   I am going RCA out to 3.5mm in.


More photos the merrier! That's an Alo Ref 8 interconnect. I also tried connecting via kimber cable RCA to 3.5mm (with an Audio quest RCA to 3.5mm adapter) and it sounded great, though it's more for stationary use as my RCA cables are too long for transportable.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Nostoi said:


> More photos the merrier! That's an Alo Ref 8 interconnect. I also tried connecting via kimber cable RCA to 3.5mm (with an Audio quest RCA to 3.5mm adapter) and it sounded great, though it's more for stationary use as my RCA cables are too long for transportable.


That's why I asked.   I couldn't find anything shorter than .6m or 22 inches in a high quality cable.   I bought an audioquest .6m cable which is nice, but way too long.  I did find a 6" cable from Amazon that I use.   Perfect size, but looks cheap.


----------



## Nostoi

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> That's why I asked.   I couldn't find anything shorter than .6m or 22 inches in a high quality cable.   I bought an audioquest .6m cable which is nice, but way too long.  I did find a 6" cable from Amazon that I use.   Perfect size, but looks cheap.


If you're talking RCA rather than 3.5mm, then you can get a high end kimber RCA here for that length https://www.kimber.de/alle-produktkategorien/xlr-analogkabel/Kimber-Kable-Topgun-All-Clear-1-detail

Of course, options for 3.5mm are plentiful.


----------



## Trunkmonkey44

chrisgtl said:


> Got one on the way along with a P6Pro. Can't wait! 😁


This is my favorite setup. I like it better than any of my other C9 combos, including the Hugo 2, which I know some people here really like.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Trunkmonkey44 said:


> This is my favorite setup. I like it better than any of my other C9 combos, including the Hugo 2, which I know some people here really like.


I was hoping for something in the $1500-2000 price range.   Any DAP with that sound quality in that price range?


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I was hoping for something in the $1500-2000 price range.   Any DAP with that sound quality in that price range?


LP6K?


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Nostoi said:


> If you're talking RCA rather than 3.5mm, then you can get a high end kimber RCA here for that length https://www.kimber.de/alle-produktkategorien/xlr-analogkabel/Kimber-Kable-Topgun-All-Clear-1-detail
> 
> Of course, options for 3.5mm are plentiful.


I just checked out the Kimber cable site, but I did not see an option for 15 cm which is about 6 inches.   Did I miss it?


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> LP6K?


Yes.  That is on my radar.   How does LP6K + C9 compare to Hugo 2 + C9 in pure sound quality?   I don't care about features.


----------



## fuhransahis (May 26, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Yes.  That is on my radar.   How does LP6K + C9 compare to Hugo 2 + C9 in pure sound quality?   I don't care about features.


I can't compare vs Hugo 2 but in the sub-$2k the DX300 should be in consideration as well - the Amp module with dedicated LO should be announced/released this week supposedly, or in any case soon, which should only improve things even further.

@twister6 has a DAP pair up section near the end of his C9 review that might provide some better relative insight.


----------



## RTodd (May 26, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Yes.  That is on my radar.   How does LP6K + C9 compare to Hugo 2 + C9 in pure sound quality?   I don't care about features.


Do not know because I do not have a Hugo 2 to compare. But can still add some color here.

The LP6K uses a single DAC chip, and has good amplification. If you use line out you skip the amplification and C9 takes care of that better than the LP6K amplification does, what I hear is a narrowing of the gap in sound quality between the LP6K the M8 and the P6Pro I also have, when the C9 is added.

The combination of the LP6K and the C9 is affordable in this echelon and really is not slumming it in anyway.

If you are after the bare no expense best you can have, probably not this player.

I too would like to hear a few comparisons between the Hugo2 C9 and LP6K C9.

Even more interested in a comparison using the C9 between Hugo 2 and the P6Pro and L&Ps other flagship LP6.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

RTodd said:


> Do not know because I do not have a Hugo 2 to compare. But can still add some color here.
> 
> The LP6K uses a single DAC chip, and has good amplification. If you use line out you skip the amplification and C9 takes care of that better than the LP6K amplification does what I hear is a narrowing of the gap in sound quality between the LP6K the M8 and the P6Pro I also have, when the C9 is added.
> 
> ...


I really don't want to spend $4000 on a DAP.   I would rather buy a Traillii.


----------



## aaf evo

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I really don't want to spend $4000 on a DAP.   I would rather buy a Traillii.



The DAP they’re talking about is Lotoo PAW 6000. MSRP of like $1200? Great dap.

Edit: nvm may have mis read.


----------



## bigbeans (May 26, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I really don't want to spend $4000 on a DAP.   I would rather buy a Traillii.


Musicteck is offering the LP6K for 999 USD

https://bit.ly/3bUi9eg


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bigbeans said:


> Musicteck is offering the LP6K for 999 USD
> 
> https://bit.ly/3bUi9eg


Will it get me close to c9 + hugo 2?


----------



## aaf evo

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Will it get me close to c9 + hugo 2?



Don’t think I’ve heard any standalone DAP that can get close to what the C9 is capable of, tbh.


----------



## Nostoi

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Will it get me close to c9 + hugo 2?


I have the Paw6000 alongside my Hugo2. It's a fantastic DAP in and of itself. Very linear sounding with excellent detail retrival and imaging. It's neutral but not in any sense boring. I'd say it's within the ballpark of the Hugo2 tonally though not on that level technically. Fantastic pairing with the C9 for sure.


----------



## bigbeans (May 26, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Will it get me close to c9 + hugo 2?


Concept alone, of course not haha

Kind of an impossible question, asking if a DAP (which already has to compromise the amplification stage for battery/DAC space) under 2k can compete with C9+Hugo2. I think you will need to up your budget quite a bit or be ok with compromising the sound a bit.

Thing is, I don't like Chord house sound. However I can recc for you to look at Shanling M8 which I recently purchased. This is the best house sound imho. Offers fantastic low end and veers to the left of C9 house sound. This would complement the 'accurate' Hugo2+C9 well imho.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

fuhransahis said:


> I can't compare vs Hugo 2 but in the sub-$2k the DX300 should be in consideration as well - the Amp module with dedicated LO should be announced/released this week supposedly, or in any case soon, which should only improve things even further.
> 
> @twister6 has a DAP pair up section near the end of his C9 review that might provide some better relative insight.


Yes.   So far the front runners for my next dap are DX 300 and LP6K


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bigbeans said:


> Concept alone, of course not haha
> 
> Kind of an impossible question, asking if a DAP (which already has to compromise the amplification stage for battery/DAC space) under 2k can compete with C9+Hugo2. I think you will need to up your budget quite a bit or be ok with compromising the sound a bit.
> 
> Thing is, I don't like Chord house sound. However I can recc for you to look at Shanling M8 which I recently purchased. This is the best house sound imho. Offers fantastic low end and veers to the left of C9 house sound. This would complement the 'accurate' Hugo2+C9 well imho.


Sorry, I miscommunicated.   I want a Dap when paired with C9 has comparable sound quality as Hugo 2 + C9.

In other words,   DX300 + C9 vs Hugo 2 + C9 or LT6K + C9 vs Hugo 2 + C9.    I thought my R6 2020 would do it and it isn't even close.


----------



## Nostoi

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Sorry, I miscommunicated.   I want a Dap when paired with C9 has comparable sound quality as Hugo 2 + C9.
> 
> In other words,   DX300 + C9 vs Hugo 2 + C9 or LT6K + C9 vs Hugo 2 + C9.    I thought my R6 2020 would do it and it isn't even close.


Paw6000 with C9 is heading in that direction but not on same level as Hugo 2 and C9. If you like Chord house sound, you'll probably like the Lotoo. 

You should also check out N6ii with A02 amp for C9. I recently got it and am super impressed. Slightly different tuning to Chord and Lotoo but retains clarity and transparency. Perfect synergy with C9, and the A02 module scales exceptionally well.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Nostoi said:


> Paw6000 with C9 is heading in that direction but not on same level as Hugo 2 and C9. If you like Chord house sound, you'll probably like the Lotoo.
> 
> You should also check out N6ii with A02 amp for C9. I recently got it and am super impressed. Slightly different tuning to Chord and Lotoo but retains clarity and transparency. Perfect synergy with C9, and the A02 module scales exceptionally well.


For Cayin, I am going to wait until they replace the N6ii maybe at the end of next year.    I really love the Lotoo sound.   I might just get it.   I am looking for a more portable pairing with my C9 than the Hugo 2.


----------



## RTodd (May 27, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> For Cayin, I am going to wait until they replace the N6ii maybe at the end of next year.    I really love the Lotoo sound.   I might just get it.   I am looking for a more portable pairing with my C9 than the Hugo 2.


For $1,000.00 it is a great deal. I love mine over a year and never any issues, no software freezes, no card issues, no issues at all, completely dependable. Learning curve is very short, turn it on and you are listening to what you searched for in seconds.

Plug it into the C9 you become a bit less portable still easy to take with you, and the quality of the sound you hear is a lot more engaging.

Stand alone on a walk or something still awesome.


----------



## Nostoi

RTodd said:


> i For $1,000.00 it is a great deal. I love mine over a year and never any issues, no software freezes, no card issues, no issues at all, completely dependable. Learning curve is very short, turn it on and you are listening to what you searched for in seconds.
> 
> Plug it into the C9 you become a bit less portable still easy to take with you, and the quality of the sound you hear is a lot more engaging.
> 
> Stand alone on a walk or something still awesome.


I agree, 1k is a good price. I also had no issues with my Paw6K until about a week ago when the balanced output suddenly and randomly stopped working. Andrew from MusicTeck is taking care of it, thanks to his excellent service, and probably it was some kind of freak occurrence. 

As you say, 2 second power on, instant scan of SD card, minimal but effective OS all adds up to a great user experience. I'd also add, the amp portion on the Paw6K is very good. I had a WM1A prior to the Lotoo, and moving to the Paw6k felt like a considerable upgrade despite being the same price.


----------



## Zambu

I would probably be very interested in buyin Shanling M8 if it had a lineout that's ideal for C9 as well. I would also probably enjoy it just as stand-alone. But for now I think I'll just wait a year or so to see what Shanling, Cayin, Ibasso etc. come up with in the future.


----------



## ian91

Zambu said:


> I would probably be very interested in buyin Shanling M8 if it had a lineout that's ideal for C9 as well. I would also probably enjoy it just as stand-alone. But for now I think I'll just wait a year or so to see what Shanling, Cayin, Ibasso etc. come up with in the future.



YMMV, but I am very satisfied with M8 to C9. I took a chance with the C9 at the time of purchase as I didn't know if the warm signature of the M8 would suit the warm leaning C9 but if anything the C9 ups the ante on the detail and staging and improves dynamics.  Keeps things tight but musical and not overly warm.


----------



## Zambu

ian91 said:


> YMMV, but I am very satisfied with M8 to C9. I took a chance with the C9 at the time of purchase as I didn't know if the warm signature of the M8 would suit the warm leaning C9 but if anything the C9 ups the ante on the detail and staging and improves dynamics.  Keeps things tight but musical and not overly warm.



Right yes, I forgot to write that the sound signature in itself might be excellent. Just a tough purchase decision to make, since obviously one would also like a dedicated balanced lineout for C9. Demoing (incl. with my own C9) would be great, but I don't have that option, at least not where I live...


----------



## Wiljen

A word of caution when picking up new batteries if you do buy an extra tray.

1.) Buy sets of 4 from the same lot and do not mix and match used and new ever.  
Lithium batteries will recharge each other so if one drains faster than the others, the others will work to keep it in balance and create a ton of excess heat.  For this reason using matching cells is always best.

2.) buy from a reputable dealer.  (Not aliexpress, wish etc as most are fakes on these sites)
There are a ton of fakes on the market (especially of the VTC6) that are laptop or industrial pulls that have been relabeled.   Learn how to spot a fake (solder marks on top or bottom, printing on label instead of on canister, etc.)

Here is a good video to help you learn how to spot fakes:


----------



## Tanalasta

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Sorry, I miscommunicated.   I want a Dap when paired with C9 has comparable sound quality as Hugo 2 + C9.
> 
> In other words,   DX300 + C9 vs Hugo 2 + C9 or LT6K + C9 vs Hugo 2 + C9.    I thought my R6 2020 would do it and it isn't even close.


The SP2000 and C9 does … and sounds less warm, more neutral actually than the Hugo 2 to C9. It’s a stunning pairing. Widens the soundstage, adds that delicious organic tonality. I find it very musical and relaxing.

On Class A / Tube and Trailli.

I don’t think you can get that much better. I was listening to the Trailli out of the Naim headphone edition. And the SP2K - C9 sounds both technically and subjectively better.


----------



## Whitigir

The C9 is pretty amazing and can easily compete with Miniaturized Dynalo desktop amplifier (DIY Project).  For people who isn’t aware of that desktop amp, it mass produced variant is Mini-GSX from Headamps.

Now, when you count in the Korg Tubes technologies , switchable amplification modes, and portable form factor

The C9 is just a clear winner in so many ways


----------



## DaYooper

I wonder, can the battery tray be purchased with the OEM batteries?


----------



## CANiSLAYu

C9 on sale at MusicTeck for Memorial Day.  10% off ($1,799) if anyone’s been waiting to pick one up.


----------



## utdeep

With the sale, I join this flavor of the year club. 

I have a Hiby R8 but anyone have a suggest for a small dac only unit I could use with the C9?


----------



## RTodd (May 28, 2021)

utdeep said:


> With the sale, I join this flavor of the year club.
> 
> I have a Hiby R8 but anyone have a suggest for a small dac only unit I could use with the C9?


If you can find one that uses R2R I bet that would be awesome with the C9.


----------



## utdeep

Could the Luxury & Precision W2 be used as a source?  I'm assuming it can't be a good one because there is no line out mode, but if you guys have any thoughts, I would love to hear them.  A Phone -> W2 -> C9 seems like a semi-decent idea although I'm more likely to get a standalone DAC or a DAP with line-out.


----------



## Whitigir

The Dx300 is going to have a dedicated amp module Amp12 with dedicated LO that has Ground connected, 4.1V

the Dynamic Range is 128Db (which is pretty much desktop specs)

THD is -116dB!!

The C9 look to have another potential killer source


----------



## fuhransahis

This combo omg


----------



## bluestorm1992

fuhransahis said:


> This combo omg


Congrats! So you managed to get a pair of VC? Nice!


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

utdeep said:


> Could the Luxury & Precision W2 be used as a source?  I'm assuming it can't be a good one because there is no line out mode, but if you guys have any thoughts, I would love to hear them.  A Phone -> W2 -> C9 seems like a semi-decent idea although I'm more likely to get a standalone DAC or a DAP with line-out.


I tried it.  It sucks.


----------



## Nostoi

fuhransahis said:


> This combo omg


Agreed, VC sounds great out of the C9. And it looks like you also have the Camphor Burl Ltd.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

fuhransahis said:


> This combo omg


I completely agree.    Is that a DX300 as your source?


----------



## fuhransahis (May 29, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> Congrats! So you managed to get a pair of VC? Nice!



Yep! Just got them today, got lucky with snagging a pair pre-Classifieds listing (looks like I've lucked out 2x in a row there, once with the C9 (thanks in part to you!) and now the VC).



Nostoi said:


> Agreed, VC sounds great out of the C9. And it looks like you also have the Camphor Burl Ltd.



I see you have one too! Zach's work never fails to be stunning, definitely feel lucky to have one of these.



HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I completely agree.    Is that a DX300 as your source?



Yessir it is. It seems to be playing along fantastically with this chain, and it should even improve further now that the dedicated LO module for the DX300 just released.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (May 31, 2021)

Now that I am home, I am able to mix and match my gear to see what happens.    I had such good luck with Hugo 2 + C9 via USB set up to my laptop that I just had to try it with my Bluesound Node 2i streamer.   As expected, getting rid of USB really raised the level of the Hugo 2 + C9.   I connect the Node 2i via optical input.   The sound stage increased and the bass response deepened.  The sound is more 3D.    Punch and slam improves quite a bit.   The best part of it is that the Node 2i supports Tidal Connect, so I can control the music with my iPhone either using the BluOS app or the Tidal app directly.    I haven't tried it with my 2Go yet.   This set up is just so perfect.

As a side exercise, I bought a THX AAA 789 amp to see how well it pairs with my Schiit Bifrost 2 DAC.   Wow.   This set up rocks and it's a matter of preference which set up is better.  

Node 2i + Bifrost 2 + THX AAA 789 vs.  Node 2i + Hugo 2 + C9.    The full sized desktop solution  is way cheaper with a retail price of $549 + $699 + $320 vs $549 + $2495 + $1995 or $1568 vs $5039.     The THX solution has far greater power, sound stage and transparency.    The C9 solution is warmer and has tube sound.    So, depending on your headphones, you may prefer one over the other.    For instance, for my Custom LX, the C9 solution is better because I can put it into tube mode and get that really deep sub bass rumble.     The THX solution is far better with the Focal Clear headphones.    The greater sound stage compensates for the lack of sound stage with these headphones.  And, since the Clears are already warm, it doesn't lose much pairing with a more transparent source.   I was finally able to make the Clears sound good with the Hugo 2 + C9, but it required significant EQ.   On the Hugo 2 + C9, the Clears take on an L-shaped sound signature with overloaded bass and really recessed treble and stage.   So, EQing them to Harmon corrected this and the sound great with it

Here are the Parametric settings I used.   Notice the significant boost in the treble.

Preamp: -6.3 dB
Filter 1: ON PK Fc 24 Hz Gain 6.1 dB Q 1.03
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 2277 Hz Gain 3.8 dB Q 2.35
Filter 3: ON PK Fc* 4658 Hz Gain 7.0 dB Q 1.46*
Filter 4: ON PK Fc *9687 Hz Gain 8.8 dB Q 0.54*
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 14961 Hz Gain -7.6 dB Q 0.06
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 178 Hz Gain -2.5 dB Q 1.16
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 588 Hz Gain 1.0 dB Q 1.44
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 5373 Hz Gain 1.5 dB Q 5.50
Filter 9: ON PK Fc 6010 Hz Gain -2.3 dB Q 3.77
Filter 10: ON PK Fc 6832 Hz Gain 2.1 dB Q 5.80

Fortunately, this is not required with the THX solution.

After initial testing, I am concluding that for full sized headphones, the C9 can sufficiently drive them and make them sound good, but a true desktop solution provides the better overall performance both absolutely and from a price-performance point of view.    I think the best use case for the C9 is transportable solution for mainly IEMs and some headphones.   But, to drive full sized headphones, full desktop solution is the way to go.   The full desktop solution is likely to blow away the C9 solution when I add a full sized tube amp like a ZMF Pendant SE.  And, at a retail price of $1995, it will still be significantly cheaper than the transportable C9 solution.  There is a significant cost of portability.    Your use cases will determine if the price difference is worth it to you.


----------



## utdeep

Hmm. So I just got the Sennheiser IE900 and the Cayin C9 this weekend.  I have an LCD-3 non-fazor as my only full-sized headphone and it is hard to drive.

I wasn't expecting much from the Cayin despite it's high price tag.  To be honest, it seemed like the flavor of the last few months in head-fi.  It doesn't have a DAC which means you have to stack it with something else.  It's being pushed as a solution for IEMs, but IEMs don't usually require much power.  So, I expected that it would be a quick return.   There were certain aspects of it that I liked a lot - the replaceable batteries are a rarity in today's market.  I LOVE tubes.

My first impressions were on appearance alone.  It.is.huge.  I've had the WA11, Diablo, and many other large portable amps from Ray Samuels and hifi m8.  This feels like a brick.  So many inputs, outputs, and switches.  I couldn't see myself taking it anywhere.

I tried it with the Sennheiser IE900 and the Hiby R8 and it sounded slightly better that just the R8 but not life-changing.  However, when I tried it with the LCD-3 on High Gain, I was blown away.  Literally, nothing I've heard (including fully upgraded WA7 + WA7TP) sounded as good.  Bass hit deeper, the soundstage was expansive, and there was power and control in the volume pot.  

I immediately looked for the case and ordered it on eBay.  This will be in my collection for a long, long time.  I know this post contradicts the last written assessment, but clearly I found some synergy between my favorite headphone and the C9.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (May 31, 2021)

utdeep said:


> Hmm. So I just got the Sennheiser IE900 and the Cayin C9 this weekend.  I have an LCD-3 non-fazor as my only full-sized headphone and it is hard to drive.
> 
> I wasn't expecting much from the Cayin despite it's high price tag.  To be honest, it seemed like the flavor of the last few months in head-fi.  It doesn't have a DAC which means you have to stack it with something else.  It's being pushed as a solution for IEMs, but IEMs don't usually require much power.  So, I expected that it would be a quick return.   There were certain aspects of it that I liked a lot - the replaceable batteries are a rarity in today's market.  I LOVE tubes.
> 
> ...


Congrats!

Just a short note, the source plays an important role in the overall synergy. In my listening session with @tawmizzzz, we tried out C9 with Traillii with two DAPs: R8 and N6ii (A02); according to @tawmizzzz, R8 as the source makes the sound “too grand”, but A02 gives the right balance of being musical, engaging, and the huge soundstage.

Not trying to sell A02 of course; R8 is a great DAP and many C9 users choose it as the source. Just trying to note that on the synergy between C9 and the IEM/headphone, the signature of the DAP plays a huge role as well. It seems that R8 is exactly the source you need to pair with LCD3.


----------



## bluestorm1992

A further note on driving full-size headphone from C9; my experience is mostly based on Abyss Diana V2 and I want to talk about it’s synergy as well. Before C9 I was using the Xiaudio Broadway Amp (balanced version). This is recommended by Abyss themselves to be THE BEST pairing with Diana, and I was also extremely satisfied with the performance of this pairing. Note that the Broadway is even more expensive than C9 (it retails for $2250) and also runs on 18650 batteries.

I got C9 without the intention to replace the Broadway amp, but rather to just add a transportable solution. However, upon careful A/B between C9 and the Broadway amp, I could not tell a big performance difference between the two. Surely the timbre between the two amps are different, but in terms of the overall performance in driving V2, they are remarkably closed. So the decision was simple for me, I sold the Broadway amp and the pairing desktop dac.

Not trying to approve or disapprove any points here, but simply to share my (limited) headphone pairing experience with C9. Apparently, synergy is important, and when you get it right C9 gives an extremely rewarding experience for both IEMs and headphones.


----------



## bigbeans (May 31, 2021)

utdeep said:


> Hmm. So I just got the Sennheiser IE900 and the Cayin C9 this weekend.  I have an LCD-3 non-fazor as my only full-sized headphone and it is hard to drive.
> 
> I wasn't expecting much from the Cayin despite it's high price tag.  To be honest, it seemed like the flavor of the last few months in head-fi.  It doesn't have a DAC which means you have to stack it with something else.  It's being pushed as a solution for IEMs, but IEMs don't usually require much power.  So, I expected that it would be a quick return.   There were certain aspects of it that I liked a lot - the replaceable batteries are a rarity in today's market.  I LOVE tubes.
> 
> ...


I have found the C9 to be excellent with my headphones: MDR Z1R, Empyrean and Stellia. It’s an excellent companion for both iems and efficient headphones.

What I found interesting is Sony optimized MDR Z1R for TAZH1ES and DMPZ1 which are both less powerful than C9. At CanJam 2019, I saw ifi demo Stellia with a ifi Nano black label to demonstrate that it is plenty for Stellia despite having far more powerful gear at their show table.

I think devices like Shanling M30 (and EM5 as well) and C9 represent two new future approaches. A premium all in one system or something more modular like C9 that can scale and change based on the DAP you pair it with.

While I could get more performance with a full desktop amp, I have been looking to simplify my desktop setup and focus on gear that can serve multiple needs. As headphones are moving to becoming more efficient I think the C9 will become can be a versatile gear for many years to come.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bigbeans said:


> I have found the C9 to be excellent with my headphones: MDR Z1R, Empyrean and Stellia. It’s an excellent companion for both iems and efficient headphones.
> 
> What I found interesting is Sony optimized MDR Z1R for TAZH1ES and DMPZ1 which are both less powerful than C9. At CanJam 2019, I saw ifi demo Stellia with a ifi Nano black label to demonstrate that it is plenty for Stellia despite having far more powerful gear at their show table.
> 
> ...


That's the key choice.    Do you want one system that can support IEMs and Headphones and is transportable with tube sound?    If the answer is yes, then building a system around a C9 makes a lot of sense.    That's how you maximize the utility and value of the C9.    If you want the best price-performance for each use case, C9 is still worth it for the transportable use case, but you can get better truly portable or desktop solutions to go along with it.    Or, you can skip the C9 altogether and get a full desktop solution and a full portable solution.   These are the choices people are discussing and they all make sense.  So, to make the right choice, you need to consider your entire set of use cases and how you want to optimize them.


----------



## DarginMahkum

bluestorm1992 said:


> Surely the timbre between the two amps are different, but in terms of the overall performance in driving V2, they are remarkably closed.


What is the difference in timbre?


----------



## lucasratmundo

I continue to love the C9 but I really wish it had a “desktop mode” that allowed me to have it continuously plugged on the wall.


----------



## soundblast75

My 2 cents here is that C9 will never ever be the weak link in your chain😉


----------



## Andykong

Nostoi said:


> This is good to see, thanks. Can I ask: is there any danger in using a 40W QC supply to charge the batteries? I assume the 40W charger will convert to 18W but just want to be sure...



Although 99% QC compatible USB charger are QC3.0 based, you must clarify this before we move on.  

QC3.0 supports  3.6V~12V, maximum 18W quick charge, C9 adopts 9V/2A which is a fairly common option in QC3.0.  Theoretically all properly implemented QC3.0 charger will support 9V/2A devices, but on the safe side, please check the user manual or your supplier just in case.

So where is the 40W comes from?  That would mean your charger has multiple USB connectors and can charge up several USB devices concurrently and can provide up to 40W maximum charging power.  In other word, the maximum charger power to ONE QC3.0 device is 18W, but you can charge TWO QC3.0 device or ONE QC3.0 plus TWO 5V/2A device at the same time.


----------



## Andykong

DaYooper said:


> I wonder, can the battery tray be purchased with the OEM batteries?



We cannot bundle 18650 batteries with the battery module as an factory option, that would complicated the logistic dramatically. If we ship the battery module with lithium battery, the international shipping cost will increase 3-4 times.   So unless your local Cayin dealer sells 18650 batteries in their shop and they can make a bundle for you, you have to order the battery separately.


----------



## Andykong

utdeep said:


> Could the Luxury & Precision W2 be used as a source?  I'm assuming it can't be a good one because there is no line out mode, but if you guys have any thoughts, I would love to hear them.  A Phone -> W2 -> C9 seems like a semi-decent idea although I'm more likely to get a standalone DAC or a DAP with line-out.



I'll quote this answer for your reference.


----------



## Nostoi (Jun 1, 2021)

Andykong said:


> Although 99% QC compatible USB charger are QC3.0 based, you must clarify this before we move on.
> 
> QC3.0 supports  3.6V~12V, maximum 18W quick charge, C9 adopts 9V/2A which is a fairly common option in QC3.0.  Theoretically all properly implemented QC3.0 charger will support 9V/2A devices, but on the safe side, please check the user manual or your supplier just in case.
> 
> So where is the 40W comes from?  That would mean your charger has multiple USB connectors and can charge up several USB devices concurrently and can provide up to 40W maximum charging power.  In other word, the maximum charger power to ONE QC3.0 device is 18W, but you can charge TWO QC3.0 device or ONE QC3.0 plus TWO 5V/2A device at the same time.


Thanks for the reply. Here's a close up photo with the specs on. Actually says, total output of 63W. It can certainly charge my laptop, and doesn't seem to have any issues with my C9 or my phone. Haven't tried my N6II on it yet, but wanted to make sure there's no risk.

Info:

The top port offers a lower power of 18 watts.
The bottom port offers  60W.
If two ports connected, bottom port is throttled to 45w.

Basically my question is: is it okay to charge the C9 via 60W? 

The precise model is AUKEY PA-D5.:


----------



## Andykong

Tybot said:


> Howdy all.  Soon to be new C9 owner.  Question...I have previously used a PWAudio 3.5+4.4 to 4.4 pigtail with Sony WM1A to Woo Audio WA11.  If I recall correctly, the pigtail was highly recommended to prevent causing damage to the WA11 because of Sony's grounding or lack there of the 4.4 output.  Is there ANY reason to use or not to use the pigtail with the Sony to the C9?
> 
> Same question but with the C9 and a Hiby R8 using 3.5+4.4 out to 4.4 in.  Will it help, do nothing or cause a big explosion?
> 
> Thanks for any help.





fiascogarcia said:


> I'm using a WM1Z without a pigtail, using the Pre mode, with no problems.  With a short interconnect, C9 will work with grounded or ungrounded, as I recall AndyKong stating in a previous post.





Tybot said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Just so I fully understand. The pigtail is not at all needed but it would be ok to use it since I already have it?



You can use the pigtail if you wanted to, but it is not required technically.  I suggest you try your C9 and  Sony WM1A without the pigtail for several days, when the sound of your system become stable and you are very familiar with it, add the pigtail to find out which is the better connection to your ear.


----------



## Andykong

Nostoi said:


> Thanks for the reply. Here's a close up photo with the specs on. Actually says, total output of 63W. It can certainly charge my laptop, and doesn't seem to have any issues with my C9 or my phone. Haven't tried my N6II on it yet, but wanted to make sure there's no risk.
> 
> Info:
> 
> ...



This is NOT a QC3.0 charger, this is PD charger, a different charging protocol and is NOT compatible with QC3.0.  The USB-C Out 1 supports PD 18W, not QC3.0 18W.  I don't recommend this charge for C9.


----------



## Nostoi

Andykong said:


> This is NOT a QC3.0 charger, this is PD charger, a different charging protocol and is NOT compatible with QC3.0.  The USB-C Out 1 supports PD 18W, not QC3.0 18W.  I don't recommend this charge for C9.


Oh OK. Good job I I asked. I'll change it. Could it have done damage?


----------



## Andykong

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I just got home last night after a long trip away.    So, the first thing I wanted to do is try out my C9 with all of my full sized cans.     After spending so much time with IEMS over the last few weeks, it's really nice to hear full sized headphones again.    First and foremost, the C9 pairs the best with the Hugo 2 for full sized headphones.    My Hiby R6 2020 isn't high quality enough to really achieve their full potential and it is very striking how much so.    I need to find a DAP that pairs with the C9 as well as the Hugo 2.   Any recommendations?
> 
> Anyway, I've been listening to HD 800S, ZMF Verite Closed, Hifiman Ananda and Focal Clear.    All headphones benefited significantly from the pairing with the C9.  The HD800S gets a better bass response to go along with the huge sound stage and overall clarity.  Still can't beat them for Classical Music and Jazz.    Bass response isn't good enough for other genre relative to the alternatives.
> 
> ...





HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Now that I am home, I am able to mix and match my gear to see what happens.    I had such good luck with Hugo 2 + C9 via USB set up to my laptop that I just had to try it with my Bluesound Node 2i streamer.   As expected, getting rid of USB really raised the level of the Hugo 2 + C9.   I connect the Node 2i via optical input.   The sound stage increased and the bass response deepened.  The sound is more 3D.    Punch and slam improves quite a bit.   The best part of it is that the Node 2i supports Tidal Connect, so I can control the music with my iPhone either using the BluOS app or the Tidal app directly.    I haven't tried it with my 2Go yet.   This set up is just so perfect.
> 
> As a side exercise, I bought a THX AAA 789 amp to see how well it pairs with my Schiit Bifrost 2 DAC.   Wow.   This set up rocks and it's a matter of preference which set up is better.
> 
> ...



Thanks you so much for sharing your C9 journey with us, this is very helpful.

Your sharing reminded me of the earlier day when we announced C9 but the product is not available yet.  I had stated that in several occasions that C9 will not be able to compete against desktop amplifier at the same price.  For some difficult headphones (for example, HE6 or HD800), even our iHA-6 can outperform C9.  So unless portability is your primary consideration, desktop system is still an irreplaceable alternative.  

Having said that, I am surprised that Focal Clear is the one that become the centre of attention in this discussion.  I would have thought HD 800S and ZMF VC are the headphones that demonstrated the limitation of C9.  If HD800S and VC sounds good in your setup but not Focal Clear, that probably means synergy is the issue rather than limitation of C9.  In fact, I have run into similar situation but with a different scenario:  Ultrasone Edition 5 sounds better on C9 than our iHA-6 or HA-6A (N6ii+A02 as source), that definitely suggest synergy is a surprise factor and there is no safe way to completely predict that outcome other then checking it out with our own ear.


----------



## Andykong

Nostoi said:


> Oh OK. Good job I I asked. I'll change it. Could it have done damage?


I am not familiar with PD protocol, not sure if it will include the standard 5V2A USB charging in their support list.  You have to consult the supplier for that matter.


----------



## Nostoi

Andykong said:


> I am not familiar with PD protocol, not sure if it will include the standard 5V2A USB charging in their support list.  You have to consult the supplier for that matter.


It supports 5V3A. I haven't noticed any issues so far but I'll move to 18w QC just to be sure.


----------



## Andykong

bigbeans said:


> I have found the C9 to be excellent with my headphones: MDR Z1R, Empyrean and Stellia. It’s an excellent companion for both iems and efficient headphones.
> 
> What I found interesting is Sony optimized MDR Z1R for TAZH1ES and DMPZ1 which are both less powerful than C9. At CanJam 2019, I saw ifi demo Stellia with a ifi Nano black label to demonstrate that it is plenty for Stellia despite having far more powerful gear at their show table.
> 
> ...



I am not surprised that your have a different observation.  I tried Empyrean with every Cayin amplifier: C9, iHA-6, HA-1Amk2, HA-6A and HA-300, they all sound very good to me.  I have also mentioned that there are  headphones that are designed to sound better with portable gears than desktop amplifier and I am not surprised that Stella is one of that. 

The low impedance norm in full size headphones  and the development of high-end IEM market segment are inevitable,
we have examined these closely when we plan for C9.  Those are definitely part of the equation when we formula the technologies and benchmark for C9.  I hope we have played the game correctly and C9 can take advantage of these development in next few years.  I have put out a very bold statement when we announce C9: I expect "C9 can last for 8-10 years", and this is what we are hoping for.


----------



## Andykong

utdeep said:


> Hmm. So I just got the Sennheiser IE900 and the Cayin C9 this weekend.  I have an LCD-3 non-fazor as my only full-sized headphone and it is hard to drive.
> 
> I wasn't expecting much from the Cayin despite it's high price tag.  To be honest, it seemed like the flavor of the last few months in head-fi.  It doesn't have a DAC which means you have to stack it with something else.  It's being pushed as a solution for IEMs, but IEMs don't usually require much power.  So, I expected that it would be a quick return.   There were certain aspects of it that I liked a lot - the replaceable batteries are a rarity in today's market.  I LOVE tubes.
> 
> ...



I am alarmed, and slightly disappointed "personally".  I have IE800 in my collection and I was totally surprised by the performance of IE800 can C9: I almost dropped my jaw when I heard that.  I was hoping that IE900 will offer similar level of surprise, and I almost order the IE900 blindly with that anticipation.  Your impression saved me from that and I definitely will not make any move until I get to hear the IE900 and C9 in person.    

I would love to read more impression about IE900 and C9.

On the other hand, I am one of the minority that like LCD-3 more than LCD-4 in the Audeze line-up.  The LCD-4 definitely win on all technical aspect, its high resolution with stellar dynamic that LCD-3 is lacking, but LCD-3 offers the best Audeze sound signature IMHO, you know this is an Audeze headphone right away. With LCD-4, I know I am listening to a very high quality planar headphones but I probably can't nail it down as an Audeze flagship immediately.  In addition, the LCD-4 is a very difficult headphone, C9 definitely won't do it justice.  So if you are blown away by C9 + LCD3, I am very looking forward to that combo.


----------



## Tanalasta

soundblast75 said:


> My 2 cents here is that C9 will never ever be the weak link in your chain😉



I'm going to disagree ... Whilst it is among the _very best_ of the portable solutions it isn't necessarily something I would plug into a dedicated desktop summit-fi level DAC unless I was specifically wanting to experiment with the sound signature.


----------



## Nostoi (Jun 1, 2021)

Received the IE900 for the C9 and N6II/A02 this morning - I pleased to report it's a most excellent pairing: well defined bass with excellent extension, textured and detailed mids, airy treble with outstanding sparkle. Technically, very impressive grasp of micro-detail, large soundstage for IEM, and precise imaging. Timbre is also very appealing - fairly natural, but also basically quite energetic. Not really "reference" tuning, but also not overly exaggerated in any sense. All helped by the fact that comfort is peerless and fit is without issue. Cable is not great, but I have another on the way. I've only A/B'd between this set-up and my desktop set-up. Both are great. Definitely pairs very nicely with the C9. Keepers.


----------



## Andykong

ThanatosVI said:


> To be honest, I Don't think the pandemic will be over any time soon.
> 
> I don't even expect so see the office again this year or for the gyms to reopen in my country.
> 
> ...





decur said:


> Not only supply chain issues with electronics,
> But in home construction,automotive and many many more industries...



To a large extended, everything is related.  This can be a text book case of butterfly effect.  When supply chain of electronics corrupted, automotive industry runs out of chips, so reduced production  + deep cut in profit margin.  When 3C, consumer electronic and automotive industries slowed down, no body is buying new house or they are struggling with existing mortgage, so real estate business started to stressed, and construction project become part of the chain reaction.  

This is just one branch of the butterfly effect.  There are other branches: because schools are locked down, parents need to take care of the children and that will cut down their productivity even when they are work for home; When Hollywood stop movie making ....; When banquets and dine-in are no longer the cash-cow service in F&B industries, .....

Or the biggest implication in this forum: When we don't have any CanJam since March 2020, ....

On the bright side, while our productivity are slowed down and run into new difficulties everyday, 2020 is a good  year to Cayin in term of business revenue.  We have noticed a slight shift in our business profile.  For personal audio, desktop products has a bigger share because people are staying at home instead of travelling or commuting, and ThanatosVI has explained that dilemma already.  Home Audio is coming back too because our customers has more time to enjoy their music at home.


----------



## Lu88

Andykong said:


> This is NOT a QC3.0 charger, this is PD charger, a different charging protocol and is NOT compatible with QC3.0.  The USB-C Out 1 supports PD 18W, not QC3.0 18W.  I don't recommend this charge for C9.



On page 15 of the C9 user manual, it says "it also supports PD and QC3.0..."
Which one should I believe in? You or the manual?


----------



## Tybot

Andykong said:


> You can use the pigtail if you wanted to, but it is not required technically.  I suggest you try your C9 and  Sony WM1A without the pigtail for several days, when the sound of your system become stable and you are very familiar with it, add the pigtail to find out which is the better connection to your ear.


Thanks Andy!


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Tanalasta said:


> I'm going to disagree ... Whilst it is among the _very best_ of the portable solutions it isn't necessarily something I would plug into a dedicated desktop summit-fi level DAC unless I was specifically wanting to experiment with the sound signature.


Why not?    First time I heard a Chord Hugo TT2, my ZMF Verite Closed headphones did not sound that great with it.   But, the VC sounds great with a Hugo 2 + C9.   First of all, I'd like to confirm those initial impressions and then try the pairing with the TT2 and C9.    It may not work well, but it is definitely worth a listen.


----------



## Andykong

Lu88 said:


> On page 15 of the C9 user manual, it says "it also supports PD and QC3.0..."
> Which one should I believe in? You or the manual?



Definitely the manual, obviously I make a mistake here.   

@Nostoi  I send your *question* to seek clarification from our support.  From what we can observed, the USB-C Out 1 of your charge is PD Profile 2, and USB-C Out 1 is Profile 4.  C9 and battery module only support PD Profile 2, therefore y ou can use USB-C Out 1 to charge C9 but not USB-C Out 2 unless Out-2 of your charger is fully backward compatible.  You have to consult your supplier for that detail.

Great, I learn something new about PD today.


----------



## Lu88

Andykong said:


> Definitely the manual, obviously I make a mistake here.
> 
> @Nostoi  I send your *question* to seek clarification from our support.  From what we can observed, the USB-C Out 1 of your charge is PD Profile 2, and USB-C Out 1 is Profile 4.  C9 and battery module only support PD Profile 2, therefore y ou can use USB-C Out 1 to charge C9 but not USB-C Out 2 unless Out-2 of your charger is fully backward compatible.  You have to consult your supplier for that detail.
> 
> Great, I learn something new about PD today.


@Andykong Thanks so much for your clarification!


----------



## Nostoi

Andykong said:


> Definitely the manual, obviously I make a mistake here.
> 
> @Nostoi  I send your *question* to seek clarification from our support.  From what we can observed, the USB-C Out 1 of your charge is PD Profile 2, and USB-C Out 1 is Profile 4.  C9 and battery module only support PD Profile 2, therefore y ou can use USB-C Out 1 to charge C9 but not USB-C Out 2 unless Out-2 of your charger is fully backward compatible.  You have to consult your supplier for that detail.
> 
> Great, I learn something new about PD today.


Great, good to hear thanks. And happy it was a learning opportunity for you, too 😉


----------



## Tanalasta

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Why not?    First time I heard a Chord Hugo TT2, my ZMF Verite Closed headphones did not sound that great with it.   But, the VC sounds great with a Hugo 2 + C9.   First of all, I'd like to confirm those initial impressions and then try the pairing with the TT2 and C9.    It may not work well, but it is definitely worth a listen.


Mostly semantics so I may clarify. TT2 already has a very capable amp and power output. So a C9 isn’t necessarily the strongest link in the chain. 

So pairing the C9 isn’t really a strong or weak link per se but simply altering/tuning the sound signature to your personal preference. There are some headphones that I feel sound just perfect out of the Hugo2 or TT2 alone. And others, particular when paired to a DAP where that Class A tube lushness Is desirable.

The C9 is a very capable and versatile amp. I enjoy it greatly. Although I just admit as I have a number of perfectly capable desktop solutions that I don’t stack as often as I could.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Okay.  So, after testing all of my headphones with the C9, I decided that the Focal Clear didn't fit well into my collection without help and decided to get a Focal Utopia.   Today, I got to hear them for the first time.    All I can say is OMG.   This is what end game sound is supposed to be like.   If this isn't end game, I don't know what is.   It sounds fantastic with the C9, but they sound great with every source I own and with every genre of music.    I think I found the perfect headphone for me.   I realize that there is always something better coming along, but if this were my last pair of headphones ever, I would not be upset.     Now, I can't wait to hear the Traillii.    So many others seem to have the same experience that I just described with the bird.  Soon, I will be able to compare the experience.


----------



## jmills8

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Okay.  So, after testing all of my headphones with the C9, I decided that the Focal Clear didn't fit well into my collection without help and decided to get a Focal Utopia.   Today, I got to hear them for the first time.    All I can say is OMG.   This is what end game sound is supposed to be like.   If this isn't end game, I don't know what is.   It sounds fantastic with the C9, but they sound great with every source I own and with every genre of music.    I think I found the perfect headphone for me.   I realize that there is always something better coming along, but if this were my last pair of headphones ever, I would not be upset.     Now, I can't wait to hear the Traillii.    So many others seem to have the same experience that I just described with the bird.  Soon, I will be able to compare the experience.


From bad to worse.


----------



## Tanalasta (Jun 2, 2021)

By popular demand. Yes, it does pair well. Normally, I use -30 low gain (green) on the TT2 into to the Cayin C9. I hadn't quite dialled it in when I took this photo.
It comes down to whether you prefer the incisive neutral dynamics, clarity and airy presentation on the TT 2 or the lusher, tube-ey C9. In pure Class A, SS mode I wouldn't say the amplification implementation or SQ is quite up to that on the TT2. We're not exactly comparing like with like here. The TT2 is a desktop level DAC/Amp that is end-game for many. The Hugo 2 -> C9 is a fairer comparison. And yes, I stand by my statement that in this particular match-up the C9 is the weaker part of the chain. That and the interconnect perhaps.

The bird will quite happily sing with both.


----------



## soundblast75

jmills8 said:


> From bad to worse.


Just buy the most expensive thing there is and all will be well with the world 😉😂


----------



## ThanatosVI

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Okay.  So, after testing all of my headphones with the C9, I decided that the Focal Clear didn't fit well into my collection without help and decided to get a Focal Utopia.   Today, I got to hear them for the first time.    All I can say is OMG.   This is what end game sound is supposed to be like.   If this isn't end game, I don't know what is.   It sounds fantastic with the C9, but they sound great with every source I own and with every genre of music.    I think I found the perfect headphone for me.   I realize that there is always something better coming along, but if this were my last pair of headphones ever, I would not be upset.     Now, I can't wait to hear the Traillii.    So many others seem to have the same experience that I just described with the bird.  Soon, I will be able to compare the experience.


I'm a little confused about these decisions.
Focal Clear and Utopia are basically "more of the same"

In other words, if you like the clear the Utopia is usually a good upgrade, but if you didn't like the first you're better off getting something else.

And you decided the clear doesn't fit your System and Taste but still got the Utopia 🤔


----------



## SBranson

I love my C9/M8…. But, I was thinking of getting an N6ii with A02(if I can find one) to pair with my C9 but it occurs to me that that is pretty much the price of the M30. Would the M30 be an improvement in sound quality? I am enjoying the M8/C9 but … well … you know…. the “hobby” and all that.,.


----------



## bigbeans

SBranson said:


> I love my C9/M8…. But, I was thinking of getting an N6ii with A02(if I can find one) to pair with my C9 but it occurs to me that that is pretty much the price of the M30. Would the M30 be an improvement in sound quality? I am enjoying the M8/C9 but … well … you know…. the “hobby” and all that.,.


M30 is absolutely an improvement to M8 in sound quality...just look at past @Whitigir posts in the M30 thread.


----------



## SBranson

bigbeans said:


> M30 is absolutely an improvement to M8 in sound quality...just look at past @Whitigir posts in the M30 thread.



Sure but an improvement with the C9 s as well..?
Sorry, I didn’t see the M30 thread but maybe it was buried when I did the search..


----------



## Whitigir (Jun 2, 2021)

bigbeans said:


> M30 is absolutely an improvement to M8 in sound quality...just look at past @Whitigir posts in the M30 thread.


Agreed! M8/C9 won’t outperform the M30.  Part of the reasons is because as Shanling clarified, the M8 doesn’t offer true line out, so you are using it as double amplification.  It isn’t anything bad, but just can’t be as good as a true LO when connected to C9.  The A02/C9 is comparable to M30 with different practicalities standpoints and signatures


SBranson said:


> Sure but an improvement with the C9 s as well..?
> Sorry, I didn’t see the M30 thread but maybe it was buried when I did the search..


----------



## SBranson

Thanks


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

ThanatosVI said:


> I'm a little confused about these decisions.
> Focal Clear and Utopia are basically "more of the same"
> 
> In other words, if you like the clear the Utopia is usually a good upgrade, but if you didn't like the first you're better off getting something else.
> ...


I bought the Clear thinking it would be good enough.  It wasn't so I bought the Utopia.   Now I am going to sell the Clears.   Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## Whitigir

SBranson said:


> Thanks


Also keeps in mind the sound signatures of the M30 and M8 are very similar with better power delivery and finesses.

Up until now, I can’t find anything to offer the dedicated LO source that carries the signatures of M8 and can be hooked into C9 to really be something that can compete against M30.  This is why I will stay with what I said before, there is only one way to get a better M8, and that is the M30.

remember, the M30 itself is also modulars


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Tanalasta said:


> By popular demand. Yes, it does pair well. Normally, I use -30 low gain (green) on the TT2 into to the Cayin C9. I hadn't quite dialled it in when I took this photo.
> It comes down to whether you prefer the incisive neutral dynamics, clarity and airy presentation on the TT 2 or the lusher, tube-ey C9. In pure Class A, SS mode I wouldn't say the amplification implementation or SQ is quite up to that on the TT2. We're not exactly comparing like with like here. The TT2 is a desktop level DAC/Amp that is end-game for many. The Hugo 2 -> C9 is a fairer comparison. And yes, I stand by my statement that in this particular match-up the C9 is the weaker part of the chain. That and the interconnect perhaps.
> 
> The bird will quite happily sing with both.


Nice.   I want to hear that pairing with my VC.   I did not like the TT2 with the VC.   I think I will like it with this pairing.  The point is moot because a) I don't own a TT2 and b) I would probably pair it with a tube amp like a ZMF Pendent SE to get the full tube sound.    The ZMF VC sound best with tubes.    The C9 isn't a full tube implementation, but provides enough distortion to soften the edges for the VC.


----------



## jmills8

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I bought the Clear thinking it would be good enough.  It wasn't so I bought the Utopia.   Now I am going to sell the Clears.   Sorry for the confusion.


Two Utopias went on sale in the classified section.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

jmills8 said:


> Two Utopias went on sale in the classified section.


There have been quite a few of them over the past 3 months, but they have been snapped up quickly.   Now I know why.   I actually thought I would like the Clear better, but after I did my A/B testing with my other headphones, they came out in last place.   I thought the Utopia would be incrementally better.  But, they are a lot better.


----------



## Whitigir (Jun 2, 2021)

*Line Out:* from a flagship player into the C9 ?  What can be as dedicated as Dx300amp at this moment ?

DAC and SOC are having it own batteries in digital unit

Analog Line Out is having it own buffers, circuitry, discrete voltage, and it own Batteries

when paired with C9, it quickly gave me the impressions that it is truly a dedicated LO and not pseudo. The sound signatures is very neutral, much more than expected. Because it is more neutral than any amp modules, and also allows the C9 with different modes to sound closely to what the C9 does the best.

The placements and separations are mind staggeringly good, the differences between digital filters are excellent , Black back ground !!

So, you love Cirrus Chips ?

You also love the Cayin C9 ?

You also have IeMs + Headphones ?

The Amp12 just transformed the Dx300 into the exact Flagship Line Out source that you would need

*Oh, Do you also love NOS ? Non-Over-Sampling digital filter ?*


----------



## SBranson

Whitigir said:


> *Line Out:* from a flagship player into the C9 ?  What can be as dedicated as Dx300amp at this moment ?
> 
> DAC and SOC are having it own batteries in digital unit
> 
> ...



This is a promising option…


----------



## Whitigir

Not only the Dx300 and Amp12 dedicated Line Out is awesome, the proportions of both devices stacking on top one another is pretty neat


----------



## bigbeans

Can't even keep up with @Whitigir anymore haha

One day it's A02 love, now it's DX300. When my N6ii comes back from repair I'll finally be able to have the Whitigir approved setup he touted...months ago lol


----------



## Whitigir

bigbeans said:


> Can't even keep up with @Whitigir anymore haha
> 
> One day it's A02 love, now it's DX300. When my N6ii comes back from repair I'll finally be able to have the Whitigir approved setup he touted...months ago lol


Lol! What is going on with your N6ii ?


----------



## bigbeans

Whitigir said:


> Lol! What is going on with your N6ii ?


SD Card slot kinda 'ate' my 1tb card. Couldn't get it out so I shipped it back to China for repairs.


----------



## Whitigir

bigbeans said:


> SD Card slot kinda 'ate' my 1tb card. Couldn't get it out so I shipped it back to China for repairs.


What? You couldn’t fish it out ? Because shipping back to China can be quiet costly


----------



## bigbeans

Whitigir said:


> What? You couldn’t fish it out ? Because shipping back to China can be quiet costly


I tried for 20 min with tweezers, rain dance and verbal negotiation. Andrew at Musicteck is taking care of it for me, the N6ii I bought off Headfi was purchased from him and still has warranty luckily.


----------



## Whitigir (Jun 2, 2021)

bigbeans said:


> I tried for 20 min with tweezers, rain dance and verbal negotiation. Andrew at Musicteck is taking care of it for me, the N6ii I bought off Headfi was purchased from him and still has warranty luckily.


Andrew is a great person to have businesses with! I am glad you are covered!!

LOL!! Verbal negotiations with the stuck MicroSD? 😂


----------



## SBranson

Now I’m completely lost…. C9/N6ii/A02(if possible), C9/DX300/amp12 or dump it all and go M30…. All about the same price..


----------



## bigbeans

SBranson said:


> Now I’m completely lost…. C9/N6ii/A02(if possible), C9/DX300/amp12 or dump it all and go M30…. All about the same price..


Here's the possibilities;
1. N6ii--> Modularity with R2R board option (but no LO). Portable. A02 True LO board is near impossible to get.
2. DX300--> Less board options, but still modular with available True LO board. Portable. Flagship modern Android experience.
3. Shanling M30--> Who cares about portability, I want the Ferrari, even if it means putting up with Shanling software. Best Shanling house sound, warmer than C9.


----------



## Whitigir

SBranson said:


> Now I’m completely lost…. C9/N6ii/A02(if possible), C9/DX300/amp12 or dump it all and go M30…. All about the same price..


Or get them all like I am doing ? Eventually I will trim down, but I can’t stand selling any pieces at the moment ..... are you primarily a headphones users or iems ?


----------



## DaYooper

Whitigir said:


> Or get them all like I am doing ? Eventually I will trim down, but I can’t stand selling any pieces at the moment ..... are you primarily a headphones users or iems ?


I was there but I finally got treatment, now I'm in remission.


----------



## Whitigir

DaYooper said:


> I was there but I finally got treatment, now I'm in remission.


You are too much to handle 😩.  Your Arsenal is literally out of this world already


----------



## decur

SBranson said:


> Now I’m completely lost…. C9/N6ii/A02(if possible), C9/DX300/amp12 or dump it all and go M30…. All about the same price..


Yes,c9/n6ii/a02 vs c9/dx300/amp12
i wonder how they compare....


----------



## Whitigir

decur said:


> Yes,c9/n6ii/a02 vs c9/dx300/amp12
> i wonder how they compare....


Different signatures , both are excellent sources for C9.  The Amp12 offers excellent fidelity and dynamic where A02 offers cleanliness and better sound stages.  The Amp12 is also a little warmer and more musical than A02

The M30 is a little more than that.  It has larger soundstage presentations, but it takes a long burn-in time though, like 800 hours or so.  However, burning in the M30 is pretty easy, it can be set to only charge when battery drops below 70%.  Then that is what it will do while you are having it permanently plugged in.

For those who are curious to whether be buying M30 or C9 stacks of either Dx300 or A02 as a source.  The first and foremost questions to answers would be

1/ how important is soundstage width/depth for you ? If it is a must then M30 !!

2/ how important is dynamic and resolutions, resolves are for you ? If it is most important , then C9 stacks

3/ how important is the form factor for you ? Would you be comfortable with which one ? A palm sizes or an IPad Pro sizes ? If Palm sizes, the C9 stacks.  If IPad Pro sizes is ok, then M30

The one thing that is tearing me apart is that I am using both IEMS occasionally and Headphones mostly.  I love soundstage the most and M30 wins most of the time.  But whenever I am using in ears, the C9 stacks can be brought with me around the house and sit wherever I want comfortably, the M30 would need a good tables to set a top.  So, if I am using IEMS, the C9 wins.  Even when M30 has a better soundstage, the hardship of carrying it around will take all the joys out of it, unless I am using HD800S.


----------



## DaYooper

Whitigir said:


> Amp12


Is that actually Amp11 Mk2?


----------



## fuhransahis

DaYooper said:


> Is that actually Amp11 Mk2?


Nope, new Amp12 module, non-stock. Has 4.4mm PO and 4.4mm dedicated LO


----------



## DaYooper

fuhransahis said:


> Nope, new Amp12 module, non-stock. Has 4.4mm PO and 4.4mm dedicated LO


Thanks. But I will resist. I sold my DX300 a short while after burning it in. It just didn't thrill me. Maybe because I laid my claim to things like LPGT Ti and LP6 and LP6 Ti and now C9 and for the second N6ii/A02. Now I'm just waiting for the N6ii Ti to I hope complete my collecting while I build a new house. My wallet is in total revolt!


----------



## fuhransahis

DaYooper said:


> Thanks. But I will resist. I sold my DX300 a short while after burning it in. It just didn't thrill me. Maybe because I laid my claim to things like LPGT Ti and LP6 and LP6 Ti and now C9 and for the second N6ii/A02. Now I'm just waiting for the N6ii Ti to I hope complete my collecting while I build a new house. My wallet is in total revolt!



Sure...

But...

Did you try the DX300 with Amp12?


----------



## DaYooper

Nope. Resist, resist, I must resist. I'm fairly certain I would like it but....


----------



## fuhransahis

DaYooper said:


> Nope. Resist, resist, I must resist. I'm fairly certain I would like it but....



Apparently it pairs AMAZINGLY with the C9... that dedicated LO and greater power...


----------



## SBranson

I finally made a decision to try to track down an A02 and then all this chatter about the amp12... stop.. please..


----------



## Nostoi

Of interest to some, Van Nuys dedicated case for C9 & DAP: https://www.vannuys.co.jp/official/new_item/ve291/

I, for one, am all over this.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Nostoi said:


> Of interest to some, Van Nuys dedicated case for C9 & DAP: https://www.vannuys.co.jp/official/new_item/ve291/
> 
> I, for one, am all over this.


Wow nice, thanks to the heads up!


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Jun 3, 2021)

Nostoi said:


> Of interest to some, Van Nuys dedicated case for C9 & DAP: https://www.vannuys.co.jp/official/new_item/ve291/
> 
> I, for one, am all over this.


Not bad.   Certainly makes it much more usable than the IFI case I use.    The only thing I don't like is the rubber bands.  I have those for my Mojo and I don't like them.    I think a strap with a buckle might be more useable.   

edited to note:   How do you change tracks?    Do you need to take it out of the case?    It would argue for pairing the C9 with a W2 so that you can use an Apple watch to control music.   Too bad the W2 doesn't sound good with the C9.


----------



## Nostoi

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Not bad.   Certainly makes it much more usable than the IFI case I use.    The only thing I don't like is the rubber bands.  I have those for my Mojo and I don't like them.    I think a strap with a buckle might be more useable.


I have them myself for the Mojo, though obviously they're optional. Wouldn't use them myself. 

All the Van Nuys cases I have are well thought out and very well built, so I think this should be good for C9 users.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Jun 3, 2021)

On that same site, I found this very nice multiple IEM case.    I like this layout better than what I got from Amazon which was designed for watches.   This is clearly designed for IEMs so that the pockets are the right size.

https://www.vannuys.co.jp/official/new_item/vd892_03/


----------



## Nostoi

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Not bad.   Certainly makes it much more usable than the IFI case I use.    The only thing I don't like is the rubber bands.  I have those for my Mojo and I don't like them.    I think a strap with a buckle might be more useable.
> 
> edited to note:   How do you change tracks?    Do you need to take it out of the case?    It would argue for pairing the C9 with a W2 so that you can use an Apple watch to control music.   Too bad the W2 doesn't sound good with the C9.


About changing tracks, it's a good point - I guess it depends on your usage. I think the Hilby app can be controlled through different sources.

I will say, one of things I *really* miss from the Cayin/Lotoo DAPs is the Sony remote control (RMT-NWS20) one uses for their WM1A/1Z. I found that incredibly helpful when out and about. Maybe there's a 3rd party remote I don't know about that can be used for other DAPs.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Jun 3, 2021)

Nostoi said:


> About changing tracks, it's a good point - I guess it depends on your usage. I think the Hilby app can be controlled through different sources.
> 
> I will say, one of things I *really* miss from the Cayin/Lotoo DAPs is the Sony remote control (RMT-NWS20) one uses for their WM1A/1Z. I found that incredibly helpful when out and about. Maybe there's a 3rd party remote I don't know about that can be used for other DAPs.


I think you can control the Cayin dap from your phone using the app Hiby link.

Edit: found this video from Musicteck.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> I think you can control the Cayin dap from your phone using the app Hiby link.


Can I control my Hiby DAP with Hiby Link?      I was probably going to buy this case anyway, but if the answer is yes, then I am definitely buying it.


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Can I control my Hiby DAP with Hiby Link?      I was probably going to buy this case anyway, but if the answer is yes, then I am definitely buying it.


Seems yes, I just updated a link in the post above.


----------



## bigbeans

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Can I control my Hiby DAP with Hiby Link?      I was probably going to buy this case anyway, but if the answer is yes, then I am definitely buying it.


I can even control my Hiby Music App using my M1 Mac mini. The iPhone app support emulation on M1 Macs allows this to work.


----------



## Nostoi

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Can I control my Hiby DAP with Hiby Link?      I was probably going to buy this case anyway, but if the answer is yes, then I am definitely buying it.


Pretty sure you can. I used to control my Shanling DAP from my phone.


----------



## Lu88

VanNuys carrying case for Cayin C9 + DAP is available now in Japan.  The price is about US$110.
They don't ship overseas directly, but you can get it via forwarding service such as tenso.com or tensojapan.com.

Official product page in Japanese:
https://www.vannuys.co.jp/official/new_item/ve291/


----------



## Andykong

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Can I control my Hiby DAP with Hiby Link?      I was probably going to buy this case anyway, but if the answer is yes, then I am definitely buying it.



A quick explanation of HiByLink.

HiByLink is a resource sharing duplex bluetooth codec developed by HiBy Music, it is far more sophisticated than a phone-based remote control.  Regular Bluetooth control app allow you to issue commands such as Play/Pause, Previous/Next from mobile to DAP, at this point the connection is simplex: from mobile to DAP. The HiByLink is far more sophisticated. Once connected, your music resources on DAP will be shared with the HiByMusic App by allowing the App to read the file headers and metadata of the DAP local storage. The App on your mobile phone will manipulated the content, and control the DAP operation such as sorting,  synchronise album art and playback progress bar, creating playlist, ... . It can even offer user operations that are not originally available on your DAP because you are using the HiBy Music App on your mobile phone to playback the resource on your DAP.  

The feature is embedded inside HiBy Music Player, so to use this feature, you need to install HiBy Music App in your mobile phone, and your DAPs are compatible to HiBy Music application.  All HiBy and Cayin DAPs are HiByLink ready, there are other DAP also compatible with HiByLink  but I'll leave you to find out.  

HiByLink is available on both Android and iOS based HiBy Music App, but he Android implementation is smoother than the iOS options.


----------



## Nostoi

Lu88 said:


> VanNuys carrying case for Cayin C9 + DAP is available now in Japan.  The price is about US$110.
> They don't ship overseas directly, but you can get it via forwarding service such as tenso.com or tensojapan.com.
> 
> Official product page in Japanese:
> https://www.vannuys.co.jp/official/new_item/ve291/


Deja Vu  

Thanks for the additional shipping info. Since you're from Japan, would be good to know if you recommend one service in particular?

In time, all the Van Nuys stuff tends to appear on Ebay by official outlets, but that tends to take a little time and we all know that audiophiles are not the strongest in terms of being patient.


----------



## Zambu

Not a big fan of the "boring black camera case aesthetic" but seems robust in any case  Guess I'll be looking for something a bit more fitting to my style/preference but then it's of course bit of a getting-lucky-with-measurements game  Then again, not even sure how much I'll be carrying it around as a true portable but plenty of years to find out hopefully...


----------



## Zambu

Any of you guys tried C9 with Dethonray DTR1? It's 3.5mm LO but still a bit intrigued since it has a new version (DTR1+) coming out soon (?).


----------



## Lu88

Nostoi said:


> Deja Vu
> 
> Thanks for the additional shipping info. Since you're from Japan, would be good to know if you recommend one service in particular?
> 
> In time, all the Van Nuys stuff tends to appear on Ebay by official outlets, but that tends to take a little time and we all know that audiophiles are not the strongest in terms of being patient.


Oh, I missed it...

I just found it listed on Amazon.co.jp. Have you checked if it will be shipped overseas?
https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B096MG223R/

Unfortunately, I have no experience in forwarding services from Japan to overseas.
I mentioned tenso.com and tensojapan.com because they were introduced as reference on VanNuys website.


----------



## Nostoi

Lu88 said:


> Oh, I missed it...
> 
> I just found it listed on Amazon.co.jp. Have you checked if it will be shipped overseas?
> https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B096MG223R/
> ...


I've had a lot of good experiences with Amazon Japan, but alas, Van Nuys don't deliver to Europe via Amazon Japan. A shame because it's otherwise so convenient. 

I'll explore the other options, thanks.


----------



## newworld666 (Jun 6, 2021)

Nostoi said:


> About changing tracks, it's a good point - I guess it depends on your usage. I think the Hilby app can be controlled through different sources.
> 
> I will say, one of things I *really* miss from the Cayin/Lotoo DAPs is the Sony remote control (RMT-NWS20) one uses for their WM1A/1Z. I found that incredibly helpful when out and about. Maybe there's a 3rd party remote I don't know about that can be used for other DAPs.


I have 3 of this remote (One for  office, One in my bag, One in my room)  .. It's a pure Bluetooth Remote and I can use them with a Sony WM1A, R6pro, M15, Kann Alpha and galaxy Z Fold2 ... no issue at all.
Clearly the best remote control for any BT DAPs on the way (I haven't seen so tiny BT remote anywhere).


----------



## zen87192

Spare Battery Modules for the C9 are now available to pre order from Musicteck. Excellent!!


----------



## Nostoi

A02 users - is there a difference between LO and PO when paired with the C9? I just A/B'd myself and couldn't hear any notable difference, so just wondering when PO comes in handy.


----------



## Whitigir

Nostoi said:


> A02 users - is there a difference between LO and PO when paired with the C9? I just A/B'd myself and couldn't hear any notable difference, so just wondering when PO comes in handy.


A02 has a phones out ?


----------



## Nostoi

Whitigir said:


> A02 has a phones out ?


Pre-out.


----------



## aaf evo

If anyone in the states is after a mint C9 + leather case I have listed mine for sale. As much as I love this piece of gear I just do too much portable listening to justify keeping it.


----------



## utdeep

I am definitely struggling with this purchase after getting it in the Musictech sale recently.  I think it sounds good - with both my LCD-3 and IE-900.  I am not loving the tubes, even though that was a major reason why I bought it since I loved the stock tubes (another type of tube) in the WA7.  I like the fact that it has replaceable batteries. 

It's definitely not portable.  You have to have a nice DAP with line out (I have Hiby R8) or DAC (Zen Signature).  I'm going to give it more time, but I might have hit my threshold on the magical triangle of value, pleasure, and convenience.


----------



## Andykong

Nostoi said:


> A02 users - is there a difference between LO and PO when paired with the C9? I just A/B'd myself and couldn't hear any notable difference, so just wondering when PO comes in handy.


Generally, when you use Pre-amp input mode, the sound signature of the source (DAP in most cases) will be more dominated then using Line input mode.


----------



## SBranson

I just got in my N6ii with A02 and wondered what others’ preferred settings are with the C9.


----------



## bluestorm1992

SBranson said:


> I just got in my N6ii with A02 and wondered what others’ preferred settings are with the C9.


Do you mean C9’s setting with N6ii A02 as the source? I usually do tube class A.


----------



## Nostoi

SBranson said:


> I just got in my N6ii with A02 and wondered what others’ preferred settings are with the C9.


I'm a tube + class a/b man myself. Where did you score the A02 from in the end?


----------



## SBranson (Jun 10, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> Do you mean C9’s setting with N6ii A02 as the source? I usually do tube class A.



Yeah..  plus there’s gain on the C9 and I thought I noticed a gain setting on the N6ii/A02 which kind of confused me if its  line out.  But it was dark and I was in bed without my glasses..  I’ll read the manuals and get a sense of all the setting options.


----------



## SBranson

Nostoi said:


> I'm a tube + class a/b man myself. Where did you score the A02 from in the end?


A friend found it for me out of a shop in China.


----------



## bluestorm1992

SBranson said:


> Yeah..  plus there’s gain on the C9 and I thought I noticed a gain setting on the N6ii/A02 which kind of confused me if its  line out.  But it was dark and I was in bed with my glasses..  I’ll read the manuals and get a sense of all the setting options.


As I understand it, it is best to use medium/high gain on N6ii so that you can use low gain on C9 with IEMs to reduce the noise.

I usually do medium gain on N6ii and low gain on C9. Works for all of my IEMs.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Also, yes N6ii A02 can also adjust gain levels. It is just changing the voltage of the output power. You can understand it as having three “volume levels”, and this does not conflict with the fact that it is a true LO.


----------



## soundblast75

utdeep said:


> I am definitely struggling with this purchase after getting it in the Musictech sale recently.  I think it sounds good - with both my LCD-3 and IE-900.  I am not loving the tubes, even though that was a major reason why I bought it since I loved the stock tubes (another type of tube) in the WA7.  I like the fact that it has replaceable batteries.
> 
> It's definitely not portable.  You have to have a nice DAP with line out (I have Hiby R8) or DAC (Zen Signature).  I'm going to give it more time, but I might have hit my threshold on the magical triangle of value, pleasure, and convenience.


Its all just in your head, don't sweat it, its a perfect amp, believe it👍😊🍻


----------



## Whitigir

you amped up, I amped up, we are all amped up!!! A perfect Amp !! or so they said


----------



## utdeep

Amp needs a home:
https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds...class-a-ab-portable-headphone-amplifier.5926/


----------



## Whitigir

utdeep said:


> Amp needs a home:
> https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds...class-a-ab-portable-headphone-amplifier.5926/


Sweet price!!! Wooo


----------



## Andykong

SBranson said:


> Yeah..  plus there’s gain on the C9 and I thought I noticed a gain setting on the N6ii/A02 which kind of confused me if its  line out.  But it was dark and I was in bed without my glasses..  I’ll read the manuals and get a sense of all the setting options.



If you are unfamiliar with the concept of Line Out, please check our previous discussion for a quick recap *HERE*.  

A02 offers three different fixed voltage line output, you can switch between Low, Mid and High line out setting.  We don't call it "gain" because line out should not be amplified, and the word GAIN will associate with amplified signal .

If  you look at the specification table of A02, you'll notice High LO level of 3.5mm is 2.1V, and 4.4mm balanced out is 4.2V.  This is the defactor industry standard for home audio, so we always recommend users to start with High LO level with Cayin DAP.  Only when your headphone amplifier (or integrated amp in home audio setup) has a very high gain and you can hear clipping or distortion, then you should try Mid LO level or Low LO level for better matching.   







The variable line out level was a reasonably new feature to Cayin, we always stick with somewhere around 2V and 4V in our Line Out previously, but then we received a lot of feedback that some of the portable headphone amplifiers have adopted extremely high gain design to achieve higher power output as their selling point, and it makes our LO sounds "bad" even when we stick with the common engineering practise, so instead of starting a heated debate, we provides variable line out level as a quick solution to our users.

The same applied to the variable line out feature of 3.5mm line out of A01 and T01, 4.4mm line out of E02, N3Pro and N8.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Cross-posting from the N6ii thread.

A very cool video: How the electronic components are assembled with automated machines for R01.

https://m.weibo.cn/3578602913/4646916971042186


----------



## xand

DaYooper said:


> Nope. Resist, resist, I must resist. I'm fairly certain I would like it but....



If it helps, I just got it... No brainer if you get a DX300 again


----------



## SBranson

Andykong said:


> If you are unfamiliar with the concept of Line Out, please check our previous discussion for a quick recap *HERE*.
> 
> A02 offers three different fixed voltage line output, you can switch between Low, Mid and High line out setting.  We don't call it "gain" because line out should not be amplified, and the word GAIN will associate with amplified signal .
> 
> ...



Thanks for the explanation.  So according to your design does that mean the N6ii should be on high LO and the C9 on low gain?


----------



## Whitigir

SBranson said:


> Thanks for the explanation.  So according to your design does that mean the N6ii should be on high LO and the C9 on low gain?


It is all depend upon your gears and how you like the sound performances.

The C9 and A02 were designed to be compatible upto A02 High-gain into C9 High-gain

Use whichever sounded best to you.


----------



## Andykong (Jun 11, 2021)

SBranson said:


> Thanks for the explanation.  So according to your design does that mean the N6ii should be on high LO and the C9 on low gain?



Yes, that would be the ideal setting with N6ii(A02) + C9.  In fact, we always advice our customers to use low gain with C9 and move to high gain only when you need the extra 6dB headroom with difficult headphones.


----------



## Whitigir

Andykong said:


> Yes, that would be the ideal setting with N6ii(A02) + C9.  In fact, we always advice our customers to use low gain with C9 and move to high gain only when you need the extra 6dB headroom with difficult headphones.


Understandably, but High-gain yield the most dynamic punches for my instances .


----------



## SBranson

Whitigir said:


> It is all depend upon your gears and how you like the sound performances.
> 
> The C9 and A02 were designed to be compatible upto A02 High-gain into C9 High-gain
> 
> Use whichever sounded best to you.



Yes, I realize that in the end it’s up to my own ears to decide but I was just curious how the designers approached this..




Andykong said:


> Yes, that would be the ideal setting with N6ii(A02) + C9.  In fact, we always advice our customers to use low gain with C9 and move to high gain only when you need the extra 6dB headroom with difficult headphones.



Thanks..


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> Understandably, but High-gain yield the most dynamic punches for my instances .


On the expenses of 6dB dynamic range and SNR (DR and SNR at High Gain Vacuum Tube is 114dB, at Low Gain Vacuum Tube is 120dB)


----------



## Whitigir

Andykong said:


> On the expenses of 6dB dynamic range and SNR (DR and SNR at High Gain Vacuum Tube is 114dB, at Low Gain Vacuum Tube is 120dB)


I am in solid state , so I am ok 👍 and class AB as well.  This is the best C9 sound with Dx300 Low gain and Amp12 LO


----------



## xand

Whitigir said:


> I am in solid state , so I am ok 👍 and class AB as well.  This is the best C9 sound with Dx300 Low gain and Amp12 LO



I prefer solid state for DX300 AMP12 into Utopia, but tube is still better for EE Zeus. 

I preferred tube/A for DX300 AMP11mk1 (both outputs).

No big difference between A/AB for AMP12.

I wonder why the difference...


----------



## John Massaria (Jun 12, 2021)

with all my IEMs and headphones so far I keep preferring the Class A SS settings on the C9. Everything else sounds less linear and less focused. I do love the sound nearly as much as my RSA Apache desk top -which is saying a lot for the Cayin but the RSA is better in nearly every category but the closest I have come to with any portable- and that sound from the Cayin can go anywhere I want making it so tempting. I much more prefer the Cayin C9 to the Topping A90 for sure... And I prefer the Cayin C9 to my Pass Class A WHAMMY Headphone Amp as it has a much wider sound stage and more detail.  However I should mention the C9 does get really warm after listening for a few hours though and for portable use it's really not small to carry at all... wish they would make a Class A without tubes identical but slimmer version the size of an iphone 7plus maybe no bigger... skip the tube and AB amps all together.


----------



## bluestorm1992

John Massaria said:


> with all my IEMs and headphones so far I keep preferring the Class A SS settings on the C9. Everything else sounds less linear and less focused. I do love the sound nearly as much as my RSA Apache desk top -which is saying a lot for the Cayin but the RSA is better in nearly every category but the closest I have come to with any portable- and that sound from the Cayin can go anywhere I want making it so tempting. I much more prefer the Cayin C9 to the Topping A90 for sure... And I prefer the Cayin C9 to my Pass Class A WHAMMY Headphone Amp as it has a much wider sound stage and more detail.  However I should mention the C9 does get really warm after listening for a few hours though and for portable use it's really not small to carry at all... wish they would make a Class A without tubes identical but slimmer version the size of an iphone 7plus maybe no bigger... skip the tube and AB amps all together.


Is this the Kennerton closed version? Been thinking about getting one as Andy recommends it too.


----------



## John Massaria

bluestorm1992 said:


> Is this the Kennerton closed version? Been thinking about getting one as Andy recommends it too.


this is the GH50JM Edition and the one you speak of I think is the Rognir which is on order for me... one is dynamic and the other planar both closed backs - both amazing


----------



## bluestorm1992

John Massaria said:


> this is the GH50JM Edition and the one you speak of I think is the Rognir which is on order for me... one is dynamic and the other planar both closed backs - both amazing


Thanks!! Been intrigued by the idea of closed back planners for some time. May just go ahead and order one.


----------



## John Massaria

bluestorm1992 said:


> Thanks!! Been intrigued by the idea of closed back planners for some time. May just go ahead and order one.


there is a thread for them and I think everyone said they are their favs over even Phi TS and other high end tiers - starts around here --- https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ken...hror-discussion.732814/page-327#post-16338237


----------



## bluestorm1992

John Massaria said:


> there is a thread for them and I think everyone said they are their favs over even Phi TS and other high end tiers - starts around here --- https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kennerton-odin-magister-vali-magni-gjallarhorn-rögnir-thridi-wodan-thekk-and-thror-discussion.732814/page-327#post-16338237


Thanks! Really appreciate this. May go ahead and order one as they are currently in stock in audio46.


----------



## twister6 (Jun 12, 2021)

Since we often bring up carrying and storage cases for amps, daps, iems, I figured to share it here.  Was just playing with new MITER multi carrying case, at least their stuff is available to buy directly from amazon, and arranged the partitions to fit perfectly Cayin goodies, C9, N6ii, both of their IEMs, IC cables, plus ddhifi adapters.  Actually, a nice storage/carrying case, comes with 2 long and 3 short velcro partitions you can arrange into 6 3"x3" sections for iems, or any other DAP/iem combo you want to.  In the middle, it has collapsible magnetic stand, and also comes with 2 leather IEM cable straps/organizers.  Nice material on outside, some Italian artificial leather.

Can also be useful for C9, N6ii, and N6ii modules


----------



## chrisgtl

It arrived!


----------



## Nostoi

chrisgtl said:


> It arrived!


On top of a VHS box, no less. 📼


----------



## chrisgtl (Jun 15, 2021)

Nostoi said:


> On top of a VHS box, no less. 📼


A good sense of technological advancements.


----------



## Nostoi

chrisgtl said:


> A good sense of technological advancements.


I'm all about the old and the new. 👌


----------



## utdeep

Just received the case from Hong Kong a few days after I returned the amp.  Help me out!

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/cayin-c9-case.6142/


----------



## bigbeans

This is unlike anything I’ve experienced before, such a novel feeling on C9! Love this amp.


----------



## twister6 (Jun 15, 2021)

bigbeans said:


> This is unlike anything I’ve experienced before, such a novel feeling on C9! Love this amp.



Have you tried other sources with this combo?  Just curious since M8 doesn't have a true LO, so probably contributing to additional coloring of the sound.


----------



## woodcans

bigbeans said:


> This is unlike anything I’ve experienced before, such a novel feeling on C9! Love this amp.



Uncanny synergy, C9+FS.


----------



## bigbeans

twister6 said:


> Have you tried other sources with this combo?  Just curious since M8 doesn't have a true LO, so probably contributing to additional coloring of the sound.


I have not, waiting for N6ii to come back from repair. I am eager to try A02 soon.


----------



## Andykong (Jun 16, 2021)

Received the *VE291* C9 carrying case from Vannuys, the final product was slightly larger then their prototype, allowing air to vent out from both side.  I have tested the setup with Empyrean, Class AB, Tube, Low Gain, volume at slightly over 1 o'clock.  I played 24/96 for an hours, the whole setup is comfortable to wear on jeans, and the C9 is only slightly hotter than putting in its own protective case, roughly 5 degree C higher.  I think this is totally acceptable, and it is so much better then putting the whole stack into a backpack.  I didn't try Class A mode, the short battery light and extra heat due to the inefficiency of Class A amplification suggested it is not an ideal mode for on-the-go application.


----------



## Nostoi

Andykong said:


> Received the C9 carrying case from Vannuys, the final product was slightly larger then their prototype, allowing air to vent out from both side.  I have tested the setup with Empyrean, Class AB, Tube, Low Gain, volume at slightly over 1 o'clock.  I played 24/96 for an hours, the whole setup is comfortable to wear on jeans, and the C9 is only slightly hotter than putting in its own protective case, roughly 5 degree C higher.  I think this is totally acceptable, and it is so much better then putting the whole stack into a backpack.


Nice! Thanks for the share. Looks good. 

Still trying to figure the best way to ship it from Japan to EU.


----------



## 111MilesToGo

Uhh, I am experiencing a very disconcerting humming issue in my setup consisting of N6ii, C9 and Beyerdynamic Xelento. For now, let me briefly say just this:

1. How it sounds: Like a mains hum, plus sizzling noise when touching any metal cases or the N6ii screen(!). Important to know: No connection whatsoever of any device to any mains wall wart, all on battery. No computer involved. Sounds a bit like what musicians on stage create by touching cable plugs or sockets.

2. I tested a whole bunch of combinations. Single-ended and balanced from N6ii to C9 with the C9 stock cables. Xelento on single-ended and balanced. Switched N6ii modules. Used some old Sony MP3 Walkman earbuds instead of the Xelento. Tested with my Sennheiser HD 800S instead of the Xelento. Brought my Hugo 2 in, too.

I will report on the findings from all that later. As tempting as it might be to describe things now, and as tempted as you might be to ask for specifics, for the time being I‘d like to just ask one question only:

I checked my cables with a multimeter. There is one puzzling finding for the *4.4 mm stock interconnect cable that came with the C9: Out of the five TRRRS connections from one plug to the other one, the S (sleeve) connection has infinite resistance. @Andykong, please, is this correct? There is no sleeve (=ground) wire in that cable?* Everything else is 0 Ohms for identical ones TRRR to TRRR, and any two non-identical connections like e.g. T to R correctly show infinite resistance.

Thanks for helping me to clarify this one thing up front. In case that particular cable of mine is good, I will for sure return with more specifics and questions.


----------



## Andykong

111MilesToGo said:


> Uhh, I am experiencing a very disconcerting humming issue in my setup consisting of N6ii, C9 and Beyerdynamic Xelento. For now, let me briefly say just this:
> 
> 1. How it sounds: Like a mains hum, plus sizzling noise when touching any metal cases or the N6ii screen(!). Important to know: No connection whatsoever of any device to any mains wall wart, all on battery. No computer involved. Sounds a bit like what musicians on stage create by touching cable plugs or sockets.
> 
> ...


Yes, the stock balanced short interconnect does not have ground connection.   It only have 4 wires, connecting L+, L-, R+, R-, the ground is not connected.  I thought we have mentioned this several times in this thread already.


----------



## 111MilesToGo

Andykong said:


> Yes, the stock balanced short interconnect does not have ground connection.   It only have 4 wires, connecting L+, L-, R+, R-, the ground is not connected.  I thought we have mentioned this several times in this thread already.


Thanks for this clarification - so I will need to get into the details tomorrow.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Jun 16, 2021)

Got a M30 audition unit from Andrew today (excellent service as always!!).

Quick listening impression is that it is NOT a step-up sound wise compared to C9 stack. Source pairing in C9 will be the key to get the right synergy with your IEM/headphone, but it is also the fun part.


----------



## jwilliamhurst

bluestorm1992 said:


> Got a M30 audition unit from Andrew today (excellent service as always!!).
> 
> Quick listening impression is that it is NOT a step-up sound wise compared to C9 stack. Source pairing in C9 will be the key to get the right synergy with your IEM/headphone, but it is also the fun part.


That thing is massive! Sheesh. I’ve been curious about this tho….look forward to your impressions


----------



## fuhransahis

If anyone is interested there are 6 of these left in stock as of this posting, they were out of stock each time I checked before now:

https://www.orbtronic.com/3500mah-18650-imr-battery-high-drain-rechargeable-orbtronic-li-ion


----------



## bluestorm1992

fuhransahis said:


> If anyone is interested there are 6 of these left in stock as of this posting, they were out of stock each time I checked before now:
> 
> https://www.orbtronic.com/3500mah-18650-imr-battery-high-drain-rechargeable-orbtronic-li-ion


Thanks!!! Order placed


----------



## fiascogarcia

fuhransahis said:


> If anyone is interested there are 6 of these left in stock as of this posting, they were out of stock each time I checked before now:
> 
> https://www.orbtronic.com/3500mah-18650-imr-battery-high-drain-rechargeable-orbtronic-li-ion


Thanks for the update!  They were already short on inventory when I tried to order 4.  Rats!


----------



## fuhransahis

bluestorm1992 said:


> Thanks!!! Order placed


----------



## fuhransahis (Jun 17, 2021)

fiascogarcia said:


> Thanks for the update!  They were already short on inventory when I tried to order 4.  Rats!



Sorry you couldn't make it!

Who'd have thunk the next hardest thing to get after a PS5 is a set of Orbitronic batteries


----------



## Tanalasta

jwilliamhurst said:


> That thing is massive! Sheesh. I’ve been curious about this tho….look forward to your impressions


Oh wow. A Sony DMP-Z1 competitor perhaps.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Tanalasta said:


> Oh wow. A Sony DMP-Z1 competitor perhaps.


This thing is huge, but sound wise I don’t think it beats C9 + a decent musical source.


----------



## RTodd

bluestorm1992 said:


> This thing is huge, but sound wise I don’t think it beats C9 + a decent musical source.


Isn’t there going to be different modules in the future?


----------



## bluestorm1992

RTodd said:


> Isn’t there going to be different modules in the future?


I think it will, and Shanling’d better deliver some good ones, otherwise it is hard to keep M30 competitive.


----------



## Kiats

bluestorm1992 said:


> Got a M30 audition unit from Andrew today (excellent service as always!!).
> 
> Quick listening impression is that it is NOT a step-up sound wise compared to C9 stack. Source pairing in C9 will be the key to get the right synergy with your IEM/headphone, but it is also the fun part.



Nice @bluestorm1992 ! What I do like about it the organic sound signature. And how the Nutube implementation sounds different. Of course the inter connectivity with my current desktop set up is excellent. Enjoy!


----------



## 111MilesToGo

111MilesToGo said:


> Uhh, I am experiencing a very disconcerting humming issue in my setup consisting of N6ii, C9 and Beyerdynamic Xelento. For now, let me briefly say just this:
> 
> 1. How it sounds: Like a mains hum, plus sizzling noise when touching any metal cases or the N6ii screen(!). Important to know: No connection whatsoever of any device to any mains wall wart, all on battery. No computer involved. Sounds a bit like what musicians on stage create by touching cable plugs or sockets.
> 
> ...





Andykong said:


> Yes, the stock balanced short interconnect does not have ground connection.   It only have 4 wires, connecting L+, L-, R+, R-, the ground is not connected.  I thought we have mentioned this several times in this thread already.





111MilesToGo said:


> Thanks for this clarification - so I will need to get into the details tomorrow.


Okay, I have posted a detailed description of my electrical noise issues over in the N6ii thread now:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...ly-modularized-smart-dap.904153/post-16412182

I would be grateful if you folks here would visit the N6ii thread and help me out over there.

Just an effort to get the answers into one place, please! Thanks.


----------



## Whitigir (Jun 17, 2021)

111MilesToGo said:


> Okay, I have posted a detailed description of my electrical noise issues over in the N6ii thread now:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...ly-modularized-smart-dap.904153/post-16412182
> 
> I would be grateful if you folks here would visit the N6ii thread and help me out over there.
> ...


Well, I will try to answer it from a point of view by C9 as an external amplifier.  There are only 2 possible scenarios where the C9 would cause noises

1/ Ground loops, it is due to the ground connections between the source into the C9 and the possibilities of the battery modules active ground being burned out or bad.  This is just theory as I have not seen it

2/ the source itself is defective, where as it would have noises and HiMD, crackles...etc, which could range from many instances, for example, touching it or sitting next to a phone ....etc

Fortunately, the only thing that complicate the ownership of the C9 is just the charging together with turning on.  This can trigger the protective behaviors

So then again, for your scenarios, I suggest that your N6ii is defective.  You need to send it into the place you purchased it from

Beside that, I don’t know what else I can think of that can technically explain in details of what you are experiencing.  There are a plethoras of possibilities for electrical devices to be defective.  Many of them just won’t happen right away, and that some devices can be working and passing Quality Control , then to stop working just a couple weeks or months later.  That is why we are having warranty

As a consumers, if you are facing hardship at your dealer regarding warranty or trading for new devices, then  consider to stop purchasing from them.  It is a common practice that for a good dealer, if someone complain about their N6ii, and demand to trade for another N6ii, the dealer lose nothing, just turn in for Cayin and logged down the trade for warranty.  The responsibility of warranty is upon Cayin and not the dealer.  So there is no such Bullish as “we can’t replicate XXYY”

Good luck!!

Now, to clarify, I have modified N6ii T01 and I have A02 with C9.  I also have all kinds of IC cables.  I do not have noises as you mentioned


----------



## MarkParity

fiascogarcia said:


> Thanks for the update!  They were already short on inventory when I tried to order 4.  Rats!


Check again, now showing 18 in stock when I visited the link.


----------



## fuhransahis

fiascogarcia said:


> Thanks for the update!  They were already short on inventory when I tried to order 4.  Rats!





MarkParity said:


> Check again, now showing 18 in stock when I visited the link.



Yeah still showing 18, go go go!


----------



## bluestorm1992

Just got the D8000 Pro in. 

Short listening impression: P6 Pro is such an excellent source & R2R sound is hard to beat.


----------



## jmills8

bluestorm1992 said:


> Just got the D8000 Pro in.
> 
> Short listening impression: P6 Pro is such an excellent source & R2R sound is hard to beat.


My favorite , slightly better than the Abyss TC.


----------



## bluestorm1992

jmills8 said:


> My favorite , slightly better than the Abyss TC.


It is really good! I am shocked at how much it is better than my V2…


----------



## 111MilesToGo

bluestorm1992 said:


> Just got the D8000 Pro in.
> 
> Short listening impression: P6 Pro is such an excellent source & R2R sound is hard to beat.





jmills8 said:


> My favorite , slightly better than the Abyss TC.





bluestorm1992 said:


> It is really good! I am shocked at how much it is better than my V2…


Just a short question on D8000 versus D8000 Pro: I am reading the Pro is designed towards higher volume levels as used by audio engineers. The Pro is supposed to cater a bit better for rock and pop, while the regular model is a bit leaning towards classical and jazz. Would you guys think so, too?


----------



## jmills8

111MilesToGo said:


> Just a short question on D8000 versus D8000 Pro: I am reading the Pro is designed towards higher volume levels as used by audio engineers. The Pro is supposed to cater a bit better for rock and pop, while the regular model is a bit leaning towards classical and jazz. Would you guys think so, too?


The Pro much more neutral , more details , more details in the bass.  Non pro warmer more audeze sound. Pro not lean , not bright while can be bright if the recording was recorded to be bright. Pro has great bass depth.


----------



## 111MilesToGo

jmills8 said:


> The Pro much more neutral , more details , more details in the bass.  Non pro warmer more audeze sound. Pro not lean , not bright while can be bright if the recording was recorded to be bright. Pro has great bass depth.


Thank you! Sounds promising regarding the Pro.


----------



## decur

bluestorm1992 said:


> It is really good! I am shocked at how much it is better than my V2…


in which way is it better? just curious,your thoughts....


----------



## bluestorm1992

decur said:


> in which way is it better? just curious,your thoughts....


Some quick listening impressions is that it gives a more coherent and more sophisticated presentation compared to my Diana V2.


----------



## bigbeans

Wow this is rare, A02 for sale (not by me haha)

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/cayin-a02-lo-module-for-n6ii.6329/


----------



## Currawong

111MilesToGo said:


> Just a short question on D8000 versus D8000 Pro: I am reading the Pro is designed towards higher volume levels as used by audio engineers. The Pro is supposed to cater a bit better for rock and pop, while the regular model is a bit leaning towards classical and jazz. Would you guys think so, too?


I'd say the opposite. I have a D8000 video review coming out when I have time to shoot it. Basically, the D8000 is slightly v-shaped in sound, but a bit more closed-in-sounding, with the mids pushed back a bit. The D8000 Pro is close to flat, but with a drop at ~4kHz which prevents it from sounding too forward as a result. It is arguably better with vocals and instruments as they are more forward. 

Before you ask.. unobtanium, as the company long stopped making them, but here's a set-up I've been playing with: Hugo 2 to the 4.4 input of the C9 with a balanced transformer doing the conversion. I felt this was better than using the SE input directly with the D8000 Pro.


----------



## nycdoi

excuse for my laziness, i have yet to read this thread. could somebody please answer does the 4.4mm balanced output use tube or solid state? are the tubes limited to 3.5mm like the n8? 
Thanks


----------



## bluestorm1992

nycdoi said:


> excuse for my laziness, i have yet to read this thread. could somebody please answer does the 4.4mm balanced output use tube or solid state? are the tubes limited to 3.5mm like the n8?
> Thanks


No it does not. Regardless of the input to C9, you can choose either tube or SS mode, and you can use either 3.5 or 4.4 in its audio output.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Morning listening.


----------



## jmills8

bluestorm1992 said:


> Morning listening.


I prefer its Silver cable.


----------



## bluestorm1992

jmills8 said:


> I prefer its Silver cable.


Planning to get the 4.4 silver cable soon.


----------



## infinitejustice

bluestorm1992 said:


> Morning listening.


Does it pair well?  When I first tried D8000 Pro at the shop, I tried it with C9.  I thought it sounded good, but felt something was missing.  I then tried it on a desktop amp at the shop, and it opens up quite a bit, so I concluded that while C9 was able to drive it, not to its maximum potential.  Curious what you think.


----------



## bluestorm1992

infinitejustice said:


> Does it pair well?  When I first tried D8000 Pro at the shop, I tried it with C9.  I thought it sounded good, but felt something was missing.  I then tried it on a desktop amp at the shop, and it opens up quite a bit, so I concluded that while C9 was able to drive it, not to its maximum potential.  Curious what you think.


I think it is quite good, but I am only competing it with M30, another all-in-one device. Will report back when I get Naim HE. Will definitely want to have a decent desktop setup later on, but right now I need to keep my setup neat.

One thing I do notice is that the source matters sooo much. A02 + C9 is good but no better than M30. P6 Pro + C9 is wayyyy better.


----------



## infinitejustice

bluestorm1992 said:


> I think it is quite good, but I am only competing it with M30, another all-in-one device. Will report back when I get Naim HE. Will definitely want to have a decent desktop setup later on, but right now I need to keep my setup neat.
> 
> One thing I do notice is that the source matters sooo much. A02 + C9 is good but no better than M30. P6 Pro + C9 is wayyyy better.


Yes, D8000 Pro needs good source, but also C9.  I also find source matter a lot for C9 too, for example I just tried the new Cayin N6ii R01 module, didn't find that impressive with C9, it's good, but not amazing.  R01 module itself has very interesting sound, but that gets muted a bit coming through tube class A mode of C9, which I was surprise given that it's both from Cayin.  (Although I don't think R01 has a LO mode, so maybe this is what happen with you double amp, sounds get colored a bit)


----------



## bluestorm1992

infinitejustice said:


> Yes, D8000 Pro needs good source, but also C9.  I also find source matter a lot for C9 too, for example I just tried the new Cayin N6ii R01 module, didn't find that impressive with C9, it's good, but not amazing.  R01 module itself has very interesting sound, but that gets muted a bit coming through tube class A mode of C9, which I was surprise given that it's both from Cayin.  (Although I don't think R01 has a LO mode, so maybe this is what happen with you double amp, sounds get colored a bit)


Indeed. I enjoy R2R sound so much that it is kind of a must for my future desktop gears to be R2R. Thinking about the Holo May DAC + a decent amp, but that’s a large investment and I will need time to do more research.


----------



## Tanalasta

I can’t remember if I posted this but C9 also pairs very well with the technical ability of the Hugo2


----------



## Andykong

bluestorm1992 said:


> Indeed. I enjoy R2R sound so much that it is kind of a must for my future desktop gears to be R2R. Thinking about the Holo May DAC + a decent amp, but that’s a large investment and I will need time to do more research.


If you wanted to stick with R-2R source, you should find an opportunity to audition TotalDAC, dCS, and MSB, especially dCS. The MSB is probably a far fetched financially, but ring DAC is R-2R and Bartok is a relatively affordable fully integrated modern digital source.  Total DAC was the R-2R   star just before the Holo May, so definitely worth checking out.

By the way, I have to add this last suggestion, all these DAC works perfectly well with our HA-6A or HA-300, so don't miss this part in your future plan.


----------



## infinitejustice

Andykong said:


> If you wanted to stick with R-2R source, you should find an opportunity to audition TotalDAC, dCS, and MSB, especially dCS. The MSB is probably a far fetched financially, but ring DAC is R-2R and Bartok is a relatively affordable fully integrated modern digital source.  Total DAC was the R-2R   star just before the Holo May, so definitely worth checking out.
> 
> By the way, I have to add this last suggestion, all these DAC works perfectly well with our HA-6A or HA-300, so don't miss this part in your future plan.


I second this. I got a rare opportunity to try dcs bartok with HA300 with Susvara, bartok by itself was ready awesome sound, amping it through HA300 creates antirr
ely new emotion. I wouldn't say better, I'd say different.  Some song becomes very dreamy smooth holographic.

I already own HA300 and Susvara and it's a dream combination, bartok would have taken it to the next level. I didn't pull the trigger though because of the price, for something that expensive I have to think a bit more, hoping bartok comes back later for me to try some more.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Andykong said:


> If you wanted to stick with R-2R source, you should find an opportunity to audition TotalDAC, dCS, and MSB, especially dCS. The MSB is probably a far fetched financially, but ring DAC is R-2R and Bartok is a relatively affordable fully integrated modern digital source.  Total DAC was the R-2R   star just before the Holo May, so definitely worth checking out.
> 
> By the way, I have to add this last suggestion, all these DAC works perfectly well with our HA-6A or HA-300, so don't miss this part in your future plan.





infinitejustice said:


> I second this. I got a rare opportunity to try dcs bartok with HA300 with Susvara, bartok by itself was ready awesome sound, amping it through HA300 creates antirr
> ely new emotion. I wouldn't say better, I'd say different.  Some song becomes very dreamy smooth holographic.
> 
> I already own HA300 and Susvara and it's a dream combination, bartok would have taken it to the next level. I didn't pull the trigger though because of the price, for something that expensive I have to think a bit more, hoping bartok comes back later for me to try some more.


Thanks for all these great suggestions! Seems that a Cayin HA-6A or HA-300 is a must for me as a next step.  🥰


----------



## Nostoi

infinitejustice said:


> Yes, D8000 Pro needs good source, but also C9.  I also find source matter a lot for C9 too, for example I just tried the new Cayin N6ii R01 module, didn't find that impressive with C9, it's good, but not amazing.  R01 module itself has very interesting sound, but that gets muted a bit coming through tube class A mode of C9, which I was surprise given that it's both from Cayin.  (Although I don't think R01 has a LO mode, so maybe this is what happen with you double amp, sounds get colored a bit)


From what I gather, C9 and R01 are not designed or recommended to pair together because of the lack of a LO and the potential for noise.

Any more impressions of the R01 on its own? (I'm expecting mine next week...)


----------



## jmills8

Nostoi said:


> From what I gather, C9 and R01 are not designed or recommended to pair together because of the lack of a LO and the potential for noise.
> 
> Any more impressions of the R01 on its own? (I'm expecting mine next week...)


Not recommended for OCD people who listens to Celine Dion.


----------



## Nostoi

jmills8 said:


> Not recommended for OCD people who listens to Celine Dion.


So it's not a problem for Cannibal Corpse listeners?


----------



## jmills8

Nostoi said:


> So it's not a problem for Cannibal Corpse listeners?


Its not a problem unless one wants to create a problem inorder to have an excuse to buy something new. I heard great sounds coming from double amping.


----------



## jmills8

Pat Matheny and Stanley Clarke sounds great.


----------



## Nostoi

jmills8 said:


> Its not a problem unless one wants to create a problem inorder to have an excuse to buy something new. I heard great sounds coming from double amping.


For sure, me too (Hugo2 and C9 not least), but I was paraphrasing from the horse's mouth (@Andykong) that the C9 isn't really suited for R01. I'll find out soon enough, though.


----------



## infinitejustice

Nostoi said:


> From what I gather, C9 and R01 are not designed or recommended to pair together because of the lack of a LO and the potential for noise.
> 
> Any more impressions of the R01 on its own? (I'm expecting mine next week...)


I'd say R01 is among the most interesting DAP I've tried recently.  It is the first DAP I tried that sounds sufficiently distinct from my daily driver SP2k, (Although I've never tried LP stuff... heard those are good too, just never found them as they're not carried by shop I frequent in Singapore).

R01 strength is in very tight and impactful bass, clear and transparent, slightly forward mid.  I'd think it will do really well for bright leaning iem (most of mines are as I prefer brighter sounds), yet I think bass head will like them because they should have very good deep impact on low end as well.  (I did try LX with R01 on that sitting, but it was my first time ever trying LX, and bass is just everywhere, I prefer Odin, so I ended up getting LXSE instead)

I'd say R01 lose out to SP2k where SP2k is strong (detail, stage) but it excels in very different way that is worthy of being alternative/second favorite source.  My second daily driver is Cayin N8, for the tube sound, but since I got C9, N8 has been delegate to alternate option on days I want something different, R01 might take N8's place on days I don't plan on taking C9 out with me for ultimate portable option when I want different sound from SP2k.


----------



## Nostoi

infinitejustice said:


> I'd say R01 is among the most interesting DAP I've tried recently.  It is the first DAP I tried that sounds sufficiently distinct from my daily driver SP2k, (Although I've never tried LP stuff... heard those are good too, just never found them as they're not carried by shop I frequent in Singapore).
> 
> R01 strength is in very tight and impactful bass, clear and transparent, slightly forward mid.  I'd think it will do really well for bright leaning iem (most of mines are as I prefer brighter sounds), yet I think bass head will like them because they should have very good deep impact on low end as well.  (I did try LX with R01 on that sitting, but it was my first time ever trying LX, and bass is just everywhere, I prefer Odin, so I ended up getting LXSE instead)
> 
> I'd say R01 lose out to SP2k where SP2k is strong (detail, stage) but it excels in very different way that is worthy of being alternative/second favorite source.  My second daily driver is Cayin N8, for the tube sound, but since I got C9, N8 has been delegate to alternate option on days I want something different, R01 might take N8's place on days I don't plan on taking C9 out with me for ultimate portable option when I want different sound from SP2k.


Excellent, thanks for detailed impressions.


----------



## infinitejustice

Nostoi said:


> Excellent, thanks for detailed impressions.


Yup, already put in my order, they say they will have it Tuesday, so waiting for that now.  Brought Custom Odin and LXSE home instead while waiting.


----------



## xand

infinitejustice said:


> ..., bartok would have taken it to the next level. I didn't pull the trigger though because of the price, for something that expensive I have to think a bit more, hoping bartok comes back later for me to try some more.



You should try the Rossini. 

I'd wait a little if you have your heart set on the vivaldi though.


----------



## Nostoi

infinitejustice said:


> Yup, already put in my order, they say they will have it Tuesday, so waiting for that now.  Brought Custom Odin and LXSE home instead while waiting.


My preorder is also in place. Hoping to receive next week. As you say, it sounds as though the R01 is sufficiently distinctive enough to be a good alternative.


----------



## 425455

chrisgtl said:


> A good sense of technological advancements.


nice bike too


----------



## MusicTeck

The Cayin C9 battery module is now in stock at MusicTeck!

https://shop.musicteck.com/products...2&_sid=500c5ae00&_ss=r&variant=39468441731134


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

MusicTeck said:


> The Cayin C9 battery module is now in stock at MusicTeck!
> 
> https://shop.musicteck.com/products...2&_sid=500c5ae00&_ss=r&variant=39468441731134


$99.   Good price.    Battery charger is about 1/2 that price.    But this has the advantage of not having to remove the batteries.  Just keep them in the tray as you charge it.


----------



## fuhransahis (Jun 21, 2021)

MusicTeck said:


> The Cayin C9 battery module is now in stock at MusicTeck!
> 
> https://shop.musicteck.com/products...2&_sid=500c5ae00&_ss=r&variant=39468441731134



Silly question but double-checking, this is the stock battery module but now available to purchase separately?


----------



## bluestorm1992

fuhransahis said:


> Silly question but double-checking, this is the stock battery module but now available to purchase separately?


I believe so. Note that this does NOT come with batteries.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Jun 22, 2021)

BTW, anyone interested in getting new batteries should consider this, as has been recommended several times here. I have used them for a couple of days now. Longer battery life and even cleaner sound.

https://www.orbtronic.com/3500mah-18650-imr-battery-high-drain-rechargeable-orbtronic-li-ion


----------



## bigbeans

bluestorm1992 said:


> BTW, anyone interested in getting new batteries should consider this, as has been recommended several times here. I have used them for a couple of days now. Longer battery life and even cleaner sound.
> 
> https://www.orbtronic.com/3500mah-18650-imr-battery-high-drain-rechargeable-orbtronic-li-ion


Ordered a couple, why not lol


----------



## masahito24@chart

bluestorm1992 said:


> BTW, anyone interested in getting new batteries should consider this, as has been recommended several times here. I have used them for a couple of days now. Longer battery life and even cleaner sound.
> 
> https://www.orbtronic.com/3500mah-18650-imr-battery-high-drain-rechargeable-orbtronic-li-ion


I picked these up a while back and agree that they do sound cleaner. I threw the 2 sets into the rotation and have been using them more often than the sony. For me the Sony sounded a tad muddy in the low end and almost veiled up top.


----------



## bluestorm1992

masahito24@chart said:


> I picked these up a while back and agree that they do sound cleaner. I threw the 2 sets into the rotation and have been using them more often than the sony. For me the Sony sounded a tad muddy in the low end and almost veiled up top.


Agree. These orbtronic ones sound calmer to me with better clarity.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> Agree. These orbtronic ones sound calmer to me with better clarity.


Are you kidding me?   Now I have to worry about what batteries I use?


----------



## Whitigir

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Are you kidding me?   Now I have to worry about what batteries I use?


You don’t have to, the stock batteries already sound great.  It is just for people who would love to maximize their system potentials into the “*last drop*” of %


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Are you kidding me?   Now I have to worry about what batteries I use?


No you don’t have to. The stock ones are fine. As Vince said, this is really just the last 1%. I will rec it mostly because of its extra capacity.


----------



## fuhransahis

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Are you kidding me?   Now I have to worry about what batteries I use?





Whitigir said:


> You don’t have to, the stock batteries already sound great.  It is just for people who would love to maximize their system potentials into the “*last drop*” of %





bluestorm1992 said:


> No you don’t have to. The stock ones are fine. As Vince said, this is really just the last 1%. I will rec it mostly because of its extra capacity.



Narrator: And yet they all knew that yes... yes indeed @HiFiHawaii808 had to worry, and it would only be a matter of time until he purchased some for himself.


----------



## jmills8

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Are you kidding me?   Now I have to worry about what batteries I use?


You also have to worry about the room temperature. It will sound best if you listen/test your music in a walk in freezer or place your gear in a regular freezer and gently close the freezer door on your cable. Another worry is ear wax best is to remove the wax in the center of your ear canal and leave the wax coating your ear canal walls. Actually if you can freeze this wax it will allow the treble to travel much easier into your ear drums. Epic conditions.


----------



## Nostoi

bluestorm1992 said:


> BTW, anyone interested in getting new batteries should consider this, as has been recommended several times here. I have used them for a couple of days now. Longer battery life and even cleaner sound.
> 
> https://www.orbtronic.com/3500mah-18650-imr-battery-high-drain-rechargeable-orbtronic-li-ion


Anyone know where these can be ordered in EU? Shipping batteries from the US doesn't seem possible.


----------



## MarkParity

Nostoi said:


> Anyone know where these can be ordered in EU? Shipping batteries from the US doesn't seem possible.


Not that I can find, but if you search for Panasonic 18650 3500mAh you will (most likely) get the same cell as these are again, most likely just the same Panasonic cells with a branding shrink wrap applied.


----------



## Nostoi

MarkParity said:


> Not that I can find, but if you search for Panasonic 18650 3500mAh you will (most likely) get the same cell as these are again, most likely just the same Panasonic cells with a branding shrink wrap applied.


Thanks, I did indeed find these though no idea about their quality. Not so much interested in alerting tonality, but if they run a little longer than stock Sony ones, then winning.


----------



## MarkParity

Nostoi said:


> Thanks, I did indeed find these though no idea about their quality. Not so much interested in alerting tonality, but if they run a little longer than stock Sony ones, then winning.


They look OK, The NCR18650GA part number was a number I kept seeing when searching for these too.


----------



## chrisgtl

Had a week now with the C9. Really happy with everything. Great buy! 

Tube class A is my preference. This thing has oodles of power.


----------



## bluestorm1992

My goodness, the Kennerton Rognir is GOOD with C9.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

MarkParity said:


> Not that I can find, but if you search for Panasonic 18650 3500mAh you will (most likely) get the same cell as these are again, most likely just the same Panasonic cells with a branding shrink wrap applied.


Yeah, but the Panasonic label has a much richer bass response.  Haha.


----------



## 111MilesToGo

111MilesToGo said:


> Okay, I have posted a detailed description of my electrical noise issues over in the N6ii thread now:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...ly-modularized-smart-dap.904153/post-16412182
> 
> I would be grateful if you folks here would visit the N6ii thread and help me out over there.
> ...



Well, this issue has been clarified and resolved now. Please follow up here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...ly-modularized-smart-dap.904153/post-16422925


----------



## nimorose

hi all

need your help here, 
I bought a c9 just 3-4 months ago, used it a few times, but now when I press the power button, it stays for a few seconds and shuts down. the green lamps do not even light. 
the c9 is connected to the power line, 4 batteries in, and on the battery indicator it is showing 4 orange lights while plugged to electricity however shows no indicator at all when I plug out of electricity.
I tried to charge the batteries with a charger I have, It shows they are full, but once I put insert them into the c9 it shows not signs of battery. 
I think I used the c9 about 10 times until this happened. Does anybody know this error?

thanks.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

nimorose said:


> hi all
> 
> need your help here,
> I bought a c9 just 3-4 months ago, used it a few times, but now when I press the power button, it stays for a few seconds and shuts down. the green lamps do not even light.
> ...


Did you try to turn on the C9 when not plugged into AC?


----------



## nimorose

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Did you try to turn on the C9 when not plugged into AC?


Yes. 
Nothing happens, not even a battery indicator


----------



## nimorose

It's apparently defected. I have contacted musicteck. Will update here.


----------



## aaf evo

Shameless plug but this deserves to go to a good home 

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/cayin-c9-leather-case.5517/


----------



## fuhransahis

aaf evo said:


> Shameless plug but this deserves to go to a good home
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/cayin-c9-leather-case.5517/



I'm truly surprised it's still available... I'd think just not enough people know how good the C9 is, especially for full-sized HPs


----------



## Whitigir

fuhransahis said:


> I'm truly surprised it's still available... I'd think just not enough people know how good the C9 is, especially for full-sized HPs


Exactly !!! And the ability to have 4 different tastes of technologies in one !!! Not easy to outperform C9 with a good source like A02 or Dx300/12


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

fuhransahis said:


> I'm truly surprised it's still available... I'd think just not enough people know how good the C9 is, especially for full-sized HPs


I think we need to realize that we are a small segment of a small segment in the audio world.   For $500 or less, you can get a spectacular desktop amp.

That said, I just bought a DX300 and Amp 12 to pair with my C9.   I am expecting something magical to occur.   Now if they only sold those Van Nuys cases in the USA.


----------



## Whitigir

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I think we need to realize that we are a small segment of a small segment in the audio world.   For $500 or less, you can get a spectacular desktop amp.
> 
> That said, I just bought a DX300 and Amp 12 to pair with my C9.   I am expecting something magical to occur.   Now if they only sold those Van Nuys cases in the USA.


Case ? What case ? It is palm sizes !!! And cool down better too !!!


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Whitigir said:


> Case ? What case ? It is palm sizes !!! And cool down better too !!!


This case
https://www.vannuys.co.jp/official/new_item/ve291/


----------



## Whitigir

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> This case
> https://www.vannuys.co.jp/official/new_item/ve291/


That case actually do look good!!! You can also have the C9 with cooling fins and it will still work to cool down the C9 too!!
While on the move, may want to just do SS class AB to minimize heat being generated as well


----------



## Jeffyue

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I think we need to realize that we are a small segment of a small segment in the audio world.   For $500 or less, you can get a spectacular desktop amp.
> 
> That said, I just bought a DX300 and Amp 12 to pair with my C9.   I am expecting something magical to occur.   Now if they only sold those Van Nuys cases in the USA.



I used the Tenso forwarding service, and is expecting the package next week.  Pretty straight forward to Dela with Tenso as they do communicate in English.

https://www.tensojapan.com/

See if you guys would like to give it a try...


----------



## Whitigir

Cayin C9 !!! You came and you changed my world !!! Our love’s so brand new 

Ibasso Amp12!! You came and you changed me girl!!

Dx300/12 is such an emotionally evoking source of LO into a such high quality C9!!


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Jeffyue said:


> I used the Tenso forwarding service, and is expecting the package next week.  Pretty straight forward to Dela with Tenso as they do communicate in English.
> 
> https://www.tensojapan.com/
> 
> See if you guys would like to give it a try...


Roughly how much did they charge?


----------



## Jeffyue

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Roughly how much did they charge?



Mine is only ~yen 1,500, but it s only to Singapore.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Jeffyue said:


> Mine is only ~yen 1,500, but it s only to Singapore.


I can't figure out what to do.   I go to the Van Nuys site and there is no product page and shopping cart function.    This is way too hard.     If they aren't going to make an effort for me to shop, I'm going to pass.


----------



## Jeffyue

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I can't figure out what to do.   I go to the Van Nuys site and there is no product page and shopping cart function.    This is way too hard.     If they aren't going to make an effort for me to shop, I'm going to pass.



If you are using Android phone, try to turn on the Google translate, and it translates all Japanese to English...





Scroll all the way down from top... And click on this cart button


And even the cart is in English...


Hope this helps...


----------



## Jeffyue

Jeffyue said:


> If you are using Android phone, try to turn on the Google translate, and it translates all Japanese to English...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sorry, forget to paste the link...

https://www.vannuys.co.jp/official/new_item/ve291/


----------



## masahito24@chart

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I can't figure out what to do.   I go to the Van Nuys site and there is no product page and shopping cart function.    This is way too hard.     If they aren't going to make an effort for me to shop, I'm going to pass.


I'll be placing an order in about a week or so, let me know if you want piggyback with mines.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

masahito24@chart said:


> I'll be placing an order in about a week or so, let me know if you want piggyback with mines.


Absolutely. I'll send you a PM.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Cross posting this because the C9 is playing a fantastic role in creating great sound with the DX300.   Can certainly advance the discussion here.

Just got the DX300 yesterday and spent all day listening and comparing it to my Hiby R6 2020 and Chord Hugo 2 mostly with IEMs. The DX300 is fantastic. Relative to the R6 and Hugo 2, it is a very clear and transparent DAP with great resolution while still delivering a satisfying bass response. I would consider it more of a reference sound than either the Hugo 2 or R6. The DX300 is a better sounding DAP than the R6 especially in the treble region. The Hugo 2 has a wider sound stage and has great resolution and a colored sound signature similar to what you would expect from a tube amp without being a tube amp. I preferred some music with the Hugo 2 and other with the DX300. I consider them equals but with a different signature.

Given the clarity and transparency of the DAP, I decided to try it with my HD800S. Wow. This is a fantastic pairing of headphones that don't play well with many Amps. It's still not the best all around headphones in this pairing, but Classical music and Jazz is really good with it. Where it really takes off is when you pair it with a C9. The bass really fills out and you get a richness and depth that are hard to achieve with the HD800S. I don't even have the Amp 12 yet and still this is such a fantastic pairing. I can't wait until I get the true line out.

Finally, I paired up the DX300 (with Amp 11 mk1) + C9 + Traillii. Wow. This is end game material. This is definitely an S+ experience. It is so good that I can't even come up with the right words to describe it. I guess the best thing I can say about it is that it sounds "life like". Analog, not digital. Full and complete. Crisp and clean. Huge stage bass and treble extend forever. Hard hitting and fast. Truly glorious sound. I am loving it.


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Cross posting this because the C9 is playing a fantastic role in creating great sound with the DX300.   Can certainly advance the discussion here.
> 
> Just got the DX300 yesterday and spent all day listening and comparing it to my Hiby R6 2020 and Chord Hugo 2 mostly with IEMs. The DX300 is fantastic. Relative to the R6 and Hugo 2, it is a very clear and transparent DAP with great resolution while still delivering a satisfying bass response. I would consider it more of a reference sound than either the Hugo 2 or R6. The DX300 is a better sounding DAP than the R6 especially in the treble region. The Hugo 2 has a wider sound stage and has great resolution and a colored sound signature similar to what you would expect from a tube amp without being a tube amp. I preferred some music with the Hugo 2 and other with the DX300. I consider them equals but with a different signature.
> 
> ...


Back in my demo, Traillii is just fantastic with A02 + C9. Can’t wait to try it when I receive it.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> Back in my demo, Traillii is just fantastic with A02 + C9. Can’t wait to try it when I receive it.


With the DX300 plus amp12, I think I am good for a while.   I really love this sound.   The DX300 is a bit bulky for walking around outside.  But, inside the house, it's fine.   I'll use the R6 2020 for outside walking.    The magic occurs when paired with the C9.    I hope I can be patient enough to wait for Cayin to launch a DAP that specifically pairs perfectly with the C9.


----------



## Nostoi

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I hope I can be patient enough to wait for Cayin to launch a DAP that specifically pairs perfectly with the C9.


Isn't that already the N6ii?


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Nostoi said:


> Isn't that already the N6ii?


No, Andy said that they were surprised by the success of the C9 and that all DAP and DAP mods being released now were on the product roadmap prior to the understanding of how well received the C9 would be.  Therefore, any products that would directly take advantage of the strengths of the C9 would be released no sooner than 2022.  It doesn't mean that their products don't work well with the C9, it's just they weren't proactively designed to be.


----------



## Nostoi

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> No, Andy said that they were surprised by the success of the C9 and that all DAP and DAP mods being released now were on the product roadmap prior to the understanding of how well received the C9 would be.  Therefore, any products that would directly take advantage of the strengths of the C9 would be released no sooner than 2022.  It doesn't mean that their products don't work well with the C9, it's just they weren't proactively designed to be.


Oh OK, good to hear new goodies ahead.


----------



## utdeep

If anyone wants to get a brand new case (never opened) at a substantial discount:
https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/cayin-c9-case.6142/

Glad folks are having a better experience with the C9 than I did!


----------



## di5mal

Andykong said:


> *Cayin C9: TOTL Portable Headphone Amplifier*
> 
> Cayin was founded in 1993 and is one of the largest audio tube amplifier development and manufacturing facilities in the world.  We have developed over 400 products to date, ranging from CD players to speakers, all of which provide the same high-quality benchmark, but our amplifiers have been particularly well-received within the audio community.  That's why when we venture into Personal Audio back in 2013, we started with C5, a portable headphone amplifier, because amplifier is always our purest achievement.
> 
> ...


what a beast im a fan of the way cayin stuff looks i might end up buying an iha6


----------



## CANiSLAYu (Jun 27, 2021)

Not mad at this pairing 



Curiously I get a hum at low volume (that does increase with volume) when using the stock 4.4mm interconnect, but not the pictured iFi one or a cheapie 4.4mm I picked up off eBay. No hum issues with the stock cable when used with my HiBy R8. Any thoughts?


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

CANiSLAYu said:


> Not mad at this pairing
> 
> 
> Curiously I get a hum at low volume (that does increase with volume) when using the stock 4.4mm interconnect, but not the pictured iFi one or a cheapie 4.4mm I picked up off eBay. Any thoughts?


Looks like a diablo.  How does it sound paired with the C9?


----------



## CANiSLAYu

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Looks like a diablo.  How does it sound paired with the C9?


It is. Just got it so it’s only been a handful of songs, but overall I’m happy so far. My first impressions are very natural/organic.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

CANiSLAYu said:


> It is. Just got it so it’s only been a handful of songs, but overall I’m happy so far. My first impressions are very natural/organic.


The Diablo already has a pretty powerful AMP.   I loved it paired with my Focal Clear when I had them.   Punch and slam all day long.


----------



## 111MilesToGo (Jun 28, 2021)

CANiSLAYu said:


> Not mad at this pairing
> 
> 
> Curiously I get a hum at low volume (that does increase with volume) when using the stock 4.4mm interconnect, but not the pictured iFi one or a cheapie 4.4mm I picked up off eBay. No hum issues with the stock cable when used with my HiBy R8. Any thoughts?


I had been experiencing a humming with my N6ii/C9 combo, just with the C9 stock 4.4 interconnect. At first sight, maybe similar to yours.

My reports start here
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...ly-modularized-smart-dap.904153/post-16412182
and end here with the iFi grounded 4.4 IC entering the game
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...ly-modularized-smart-dap.904153/post-16422925
plus some more follow-ups starting here
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...ly-modularized-smart-dap.904153/post-16426669

Maybe you want to check into my story on the N6ii thread for parallels. On the C9 thread, I ended it here
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...able-headphone-amplifier.943135/post-16422940

Sorry to read about your problem.

EDIT: The words ”solved“, ”ended“ etc imply that the problem of course returns when the Cayin stock 4.4 is used again.


----------



## utdeep

@CANiSLAYu - The Diablo was what I replaced the C9 with.  I thought that the C9 performed poorly with non-IEM headphones.  The Diablo performs poorly with IEMs (too powerful, limited range on volume pot, imbalance at lower levels) and I figured that would be fixed with an IEMatch.

I never thought about combining the two.  Interesting idea!


----------



## CANiSLAYu

utdeep said:


> @CANiSLAYu - The Diablo was what I replaced the C9 with.  I thought that the C9 performed poorly with non-IEM headphones.  The Diablo performs poorly with IEMs (too powerful, limited range on volume pot, imbalance at lower levels) and I figured that would be fixed with an IEMatch.
> 
> I never thought about combining the two.  Interesting idea!


That was my thought too, kind of have the best of both worlds (C9 for IEMs and Diablo for full size) in compact, transportable packages. Only tried one IEM with Diablo so far (MEST MKII) and it’s definitely too powerful even in Eco mode with too little usable range on the volume wheel with the channel imbalance right when you turn it on. I can get it where it’s balanced, but it ends up just a notch higher volume than I’d care for with normal/prolonged listening. IER-Z1R might prove a better pairing. I do hope iFi comes out with a 4.4mm IEMatch to have another flavor available.


----------



## FooFighter

Interesting point in the discussion here as I wanted to place a similar question how to use C9 as jack-of-all trades (desktop amp necessary for Full size cans but not IEMs) but not in a mobile but in a desktop setup.

So idea is to use 
1. Desktop DAC (Pontus II) + XLR to Pentacon interconnect + C9 + Traillii 
2. Desktop DAC (Pontus II) + XLR to Pentacon interconnect + C9 + 4,4mm to XLR interconnect into e.g A90 + Denon AH-D9200 

Anyone tried using C9 as a preamp in such a desktop setup?
Any concerns besides the massive cabling effort?


----------



## Shecky504

Has anyone traveled with their C9 on an airplane yet in the US? Any issues at security with bringing it on a plane due to the large lithium ion batteries?


----------



## RTodd

Shecky504 said:


> Has anyone traveled with their C9 on an airplane yet in the US? Any issues at security with bringing it on a plane due to the large lithium ion batteries?


Yes twice no issues.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Shecky504 said:


> Has anyone traveled with their C9 on an airplane yet in the US? Any issues at security with bringing it on a plane due to the large lithium ion batteries?


I have done this multiple times; no issue at all. Just the regular take-it-out thing when going through TSA.


----------



## Andykong

FooFighter said:


> Interesting point in the discussion here as I wanted to place a similar question how to use C9 as jack-of-all trades (desktop amp necessary for Full size cans but not IEMs) but not in a mobile but in a desktop setup.
> 
> So idea is to use
> 1. Desktop DAC (Pontus II) + XLR to Pentacon interconnect + C9 + Traillii
> ...



C9 won't perform well as preamp, it is high current amplification by design, and pre-amp is supposed to be voltage gain only (without current gain).

I am not sure if C9 can outperform A90 with Denon AH-D9200, but if you use C9 as preamp connecting to A90, then better stick with either C9 or A90, not together.


----------



## Jeffyue

Jeffyue said:


> I used the Tenso forwarding service, and is expecting the package next week.  Pretty straight forward to Dela with Tenso as they do communicate in English.
> 
> https://www.tensojapan.com/
> 
> See if you guys would like to give it a try...



Finally got this from Japan directly...







Think sooner or later we will see Vannuys case for HA6a soon...🤪


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

utdeep said:


> @CANiSLAYu - The Diablo was what I replaced the C9 with.  I thought that the C9 performed poorly with non-IEM headphones.  The Diablo performs poorly with IEMs (too powerful, limited range on volume pot, imbalance at lower levels) and I figured that would be fixed with an IEMatch.
> 
> I never thought about combining the two.  Interesting idea!


I don't think you can make that generalization.    I think it depends on the pairings.   My C9 pairs great with my Hugo 2 to drive my ZMF Verite closed headphones.    It also pairs great with a DX300 to drive my HD800S.    The Focal Utopia did not sound that great.  It sounded better directly on the DX300, but I haven't yet tried the amp12 line out.  

I have heard the Diablo drive Focal Clear headphones and I thought that was a fantastic pairing.

Now, my full sized desktop system is better than my transportable system, but I can take the C9 with me on a several month trip.  I can't do that with my desktop system.


----------



## bluestorm1992

C9 also drives my V2 very well - as good as its recommended desktop amp from the manufacturer (Xiaudio Broadway). It also pairs wonderfully with my recently acquired Kennerton Rognir.

With D8000 Pro, I do feel that there’s potential from the headphone unexplored, but I certainly would not say that C9 did not do a good job - it is a pretty satisfactory listening experience.


----------



## Tanalasta

The C9 also drove my HD800S with the stock cable very well in high gain, tube class A mode. I actually enjoyed my Utopia out of them also. I found it a very versatile amp and useful for colouring the sound especially as a counterpoint to the Hugo2

It doesn’t quite have the dynamic drive or power of a decent 2k desktop amp. Nor would I expect it to. There are always compromises to be had with a portable setup. I preferred sound and versatility over the Diablo I auditioned.

That said, I often do drive straight out of my source without having to add the C9


----------



## MusicTeck

Our Fourth of July sales have kicked off! Celebrate the weekend with BBQ, fireworks, and new gear from MusicTeck!

https://shop.musicteck.com/collections/holiday-sale


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

How long does it take for the Eletech Plato interconnects to be shipped and delivered to the USA from Eletech?     I am going to order one.


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> How long does it take for the Eletech Plato interconnects to be shipped and delivered to the USA from Eletech?     I am going to order one.


They ship through DHL, so I would say in less than a week. Mine arrive in 3 days iirc.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bluestorm1992 said:


> They ship through DHL, so I would say in less than a week. Mine arrive in 3 days iirc.


Wow.  That's fast.   Contrast that with Aliexpress which takes 1-2 months to get anything shipped.   It takes them a week to even know they have an order.


----------



## zen87192

Verum 1's finally en route to me after three months on the waiting list! Yay! Can't wait to hook these in to the C9 and N6ii/A02.


----------



## John Blackshear

Just picked up the last C9 Audio 46 had in stock. Let’s the wait begin!


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

John Blackshear said:


> Just picked up the last C9 Audio 46 had in stock. Let’s the wait begin!


Awesome.  What are you pairing it with?


----------



## John Blackshear

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Awesome.  What are you pairing it with?


DX300, Aksp2k, U18T and the focal lineup


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

John Blackshear said:


> DX300, Aksp2k, U18T and the focal lineup


Wow.  You are in for a treat.  Did you get the Amp 12 for your DX300?    I am waiting to meet up with mine.


----------



## John Blackshear

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Wow.  You are in for a treat.  Did you get the Amp 12 for your DX300?    I am waiting to meet up with mine.


I did get the amp 12 and I’m stoked to see where this thing goes!


----------



## FooFighter

Now the real fun can start...


----------



## bluestorm1992

FooFighter said:


> Now the real fun can start...


Congrats buddy! Look forward to your impressions.


----------



## IgeNeLL

Just got
Lots of thing to setup


----------



## IgeNeLL (Jul 10, 2021)

I finnaly setup the combo like this:
- The orb mini clear force is better than Heimdall2.
- The 3.5 ouput of Hugo2(DAC mode-Line out mode) is better than SE lineout from Sp2000.


----------



## Burakk

IgeNeLL said:


> I finnaly setup the combo like this:
> - The orb mini clear force is better than Heimdall2.
> - The 3.5 ouput of Hugo2(DAC mode) is better than SE lineout from Sp2000.


It seems, there is double amping in your setup. Does it effect sound signature? Did you try to start Hugo2 line out mode  ?


----------



## IgeNeLL (Jul 10, 2021)

Burakk said:


> It seems, there is double amping in your setup. Does it effect sound signature? Did you try to start Hugo2 line out mode  ?


Yes start in DAC mode. It just set the volume to maximum.
I have check with hugo2 alone(1st picture) and see no different in sound signature, it just add more power handling.


----------



## Nostoi

IgeNeLL said:


> Yes start in DAC mode. It just set the volume to maximum.
> I have check with hugo2 alone and see no different in sound signature, it just add more power handling.


There is a line level mode for Hugo 2 but no line out. You need to consult manual, maxing out the volume isn't the way to do it.


----------



## IgeNeLL

Nostoi said:


> There is a line level mode for Hugo 2 but no line out. You need to consult manual, maxing out the volume isn't the way to do it.


No, I start it in the line level mode ( I call it DAC mode). I have setup it multiple times through 3 years hehe. I have mini Nordost Heimdall2 ( 3.5 to RCA) and can compare it latter to see if any different between 2 output the DAC mode.
If you maximize the Hugo2 in headphone mode, it will get noise at near max level.


----------



## Burakk

Yes I meant line level. You’re right. Not like regular line out. It just makes the volume maximum. it might be better to try pre amp function with Hugo 2. But I couldn’t success. On pre function volume pot of c9 still active.


----------



## Burakk

Moreover, I have background noise and hiss issue with my Odin on really low level volume of hugo2go. I have the same issue with c9 as well. The interesting part , I don’t have this issue on Diablo even though it’s quite powerful.


----------



## Nostoi

IgeNeLL said:


> No, I start it in the line level mode ( I call it DAC mode). I have setup it multiple times through 3 years hehe. I have mini Nordost Heimdall2 ( 3.5 to RCA) and can compare it latter to see if any different between 2 output the DAC mode.
> If you maximize the Hugo2 in headphone mode, it will get noise at near max level.


No matter what you call it, line level mode is not max volume. Line level is something like the standard of 3v. Max volume by contrast is highly likely to introduce distortion if not clipping with any amp. I do not recommend it.


----------



## Nostoi

Burakk said:


> Yes I meant line level. You’re right. Not like regular line out. It just makes the volume maximum. it might be better to try pre amp function with Hugo 2. But I couldn’t success. On pre function volume pot of c9 still active.


Not max volume, see my post below.


----------



## IgeNeLL

Burakk said:


> Yes I meant line level. You’re right. Not like regular line out. It just makes the volume maximum. it might be better to try pre amp function with Hugo 2. But I couldn’t success. On pre function volume pot of c9 still active.


I have read the manual, you should to hold the pre button at the right side of C9 for 3 second to active the pre mode ( in which C9 will operate at maximum gain and you will change the volume from the input device). Could you retry on your device.
Remember when operate the the max gain, it will be very dangerous and you should connect the phone then turn on the C9 and do 2 step to active pre mode.
If you disconnect the device, it will disable the pre mode and you have to active it again. Please be careful to use this mode. Short circuit when connect/disconnect the phone might be dangerous too.

I have not try and compare, might be it will be a topic to evaluate.


----------



## IgeNeLL (Jul 10, 2021)

Nostoi said:


> No matter what you call it, line level mode is not max volume. Line level is something like the standard of 3v. Max volume by contrast is highly likely to introduce distortion if not clipping with any amp. I do not recommend it.


Sorry, I just meant that the DAC mode-lineout mode of Hugo2 is simply maximize (fixed) voltage of output of the Hugo2. It does not have dedicated lineout.
I just use the line level when setup.

Might the the output impedance is difference between the 3.5 HP output and RCA output.
Anyone have the information about:

the input impedance of C9


----------



## jmills8

Burakk said:


> It seems, there is double amping in your setup. Does it effect sound signature? Did you try to start Hugo2 line out mode  ?


Double can be double plus good.


----------



## Burakk

Is there any consensus on use case with hugo2 like pre or line ?


----------



## bluestorm1992

Burakk said:


> Is there any consensus on use case with hugo2 like pre or line ?


I quite prefer using C9’s pre mode than line mode when paired with Hugo 2.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

IgeNeLL said:


> Sorry, I just meant that the DAC mode-lineout mode of Hugo2 is simply maximize (fixed) voltage of output of the Hugo2. It does not have dedicated lineout.
> I just use the line level when setup.
> 
> Might the the output impedance is difference between the 3.5 HP output and RCA output.
> ...


the Hugo 2 should be set at Purple level for line out.  That is 3V.   It's not max volume.


----------



## IgeNeLL

bluestorm1992 said:


> I quite prefer using C9’s pre mode than line mode when paired with Hugo 2.


Thanks, I will try it and give my impression. Could you tell more detail in comparison between 2 mode.


----------



## bluestorm1992

IgeNeLL said:


> Thanks, I will try it and give my impression. Could you tell more detail in comparison between 2 mode.


For some reason, I get distortion in the line mode when paired with Hugo 2, and I never have the issue in pre-mode.


----------



## IgeNeLL

bluestorm1992 said:


> For some reason, I get distortion in the line mode when paired with Hugo 2, and I never have the issue in pre-mode.


Which connector do you use on Hugo2.
I have read the manual, the input voltage limit of C9 is 3V/6V with SE/BAL.
The output voltage of Hugo2 is 3V, theoretically, clipping should not happen.


----------



## bluestorm1992

IgeNeLL said:


> Which connector do you use on Hugo2.
> I have read the manual, the input voltage limit of C9 is 3V/6V with SE/BAL.
> The output voltage of Hugo2 is 3V, theoretically, clipping should not happen.


Just the regular 3.5mm output.


----------



## Andykong

IgeNeLL said:


> Which connector do you use on Hugo2.
> I have read the manual, the input voltage limit of C9 is 3V/6V with SE/BAL.
> The output voltage of Hugo2 is 3V, theoretically, clipping should not happen.



Are you referring to the figures under Input Sensitivity section?

Check out our previous discussion on this topic *HERE*, that should clear some of your doubt about these figures.


----------



## IgeNeLL (Jul 13, 2021)

Andykong said:


> Are you referring to the figures under Input Sensitivity section?
> 
> Check out our previous discussion on this topic *HERE*, that should clear some of your doubt about these figures.


Thanks for your advice, this information is useful. In my case, I use SE input and Low gain then the distortion does not occur on both Hugo2(Line Mode) - 3V and SP2000(LineOut) - 3V

Do anyone compared between SE and Bal lineout from a device? 

@bluestorm1992 which gain setting did you use.


----------



## John Blackshear

Jeffyue said:


> Finally got this from Japan directly...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think I ordered this. Payment went through, now I am just waiting for...something, I guess. LOL


----------



## IgeNeLL

I find the information of the dedicated lineout of Hiby R8, which have the impedance of 10k Ohm, just as I think about the difference between true lineout and phone line out mode.
Do anyone use it and see any different?


----------



## No Deal

Lu88 said:


> VanNuys carrying case for Cayin C9 + DAP is available now in Japan.  The price is about US$110.
> They don't ship overseas directly, but you can get it via forwarding service such as tenso.com or tensojapan.com.
> 
> Official product page in Japanese:
> https://www.vannuys.co.jp/official/new_item/ve291/


Is there a step-by-step anywhere to order this case from Japan?


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

No Deal said:


> Is there a step-by-step anywhere to order this case from Japan?


There is, but the steps didn't work for me so I gave up.   Another head fier was putting in an order and we combined them.   That was a few weeks ago and it still hasn't shipped yet.     I ordered the C9 case and an IEM carrying case.


----------



## John Blackshear

No Deal said:


> Is there a step-by-step anywhere to order this case from Japan?


I ordered earlier this week and it is quite the process. Wow. VN ships to address given to you by tenso. Then tenso ships to you. The kicker is setting up the us shipping account with tenso, then sending Japan address to VN. Not an easy process l.


----------



## No Deal

John Blackshear said:


> I ordered earlier this week and it is quite the process. Wow. VN ships to address given to you by tenso. Then tenso ships to you. The kicker is setting up the us shipping account with tenso, then sending Japan address to VN. Not an easy process l.


I finally stumbled my way through it.  I was a little bit hesitant to send them the ID but...  Now I am waiting for the id verification.  They say that you can go ahead and order but I would like to be sure that all is well.  Ordered the C9 this morning. The Van Nuys case looks like it may be an option for transport to and from work so I am going to try it.  I wish that I could have purchased from a US retailer but it is what it is.


----------



## fuhransahis

Shameless plug here but I'm regrettably selling the C9, wish I had funds to keep it!

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/cayin-c9-case-orbtronic-batteries.7901/


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

John Blackshear said:


> I ordered earlier this week and it is quite the process. Wow. VN ships to address given to you by tenso. Then tenso ships to you. The kicker is setting up the us shipping account with tenso, then sending Japan address to VN. Not an easy process l.


When tenso rejected my drivers license, i quit because it was only going to get worse


----------



## John Blackshear

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> When tenso rejected my drivers license, i quit because it was only going to get worse


they rejected your license!??


----------



## No Deal

Is there a good DAP out there without a final amplifier and decent line out options (SE and balanced)?


----------



## No Deal

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> When tenso rejected my drivers license, i quit because it was only going to get worse


Unbelievable!


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

John Blackshear said:


> they rejected your license!??


Yes.    I literally could not believe it.


----------



## feverfive

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Yes.    I literally could not believe it.


I believe it because they did the same to me a few months ago.  Saved me some coin, they did, hahahaha.


----------



## bluestorm1992

No Deal said:


> Is there a good DAP out there without a final amplifier and decent line out options (SE and balanced)?


Cayin N6ii with A02 motherboard.


----------



## Nostoi

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Yes.    I literally could not believe it.


Exactly same with me, except they rejected my passport. Gave up in the end. Too much hassle.


----------



## Whitigir

No Deal said:


> Is there a good DAP out there without a final amplifier and decent line out options (SE and balanced)?


Ibasso dx300 and amp12 !!! Though no SE, only balanced


----------



## Jeffyue

Nostoi said:


> Exactly same with me, except they rejected my passport. Gave up in the end. Too much hassle.


Well I uploaded my driving license and got rejected as there was no registered address on my license. I just sent a utility bill showing my residential address and then all was good....

Just to share if that s how some of you were stuck in the registration process .


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Jeffyue said:


> Well I uploaded my driving license and got rejected as there was no registered address on my license. I just sent a utility bill showing my residential address and then all was good....
> 
> Just to share if that s how some of you were stuck in the registration process .


My driver's license has my home address.   Not sure how providing a utility bill would help.    I understand that there are international laws that need to be followed.   But I can definitely say that Van Nuy's stance on shipping product over seas by using a freight forwarder is the most effective sales prevention vehicle I've seen in this industry.


----------



## IgeNeLL (Jul 19, 2021)

Just recieved the cable, big improvement.
GND or not haha


----------



## jmills8

IgeNeLL said:


> Just recieved the cable, big improvement.


Each year more and more realizes cables do.


----------



## Whitigir

jmills8 said:


> Each year more and more realizes cables do.


Why not ? Cables can hang, and that would be a significant changes


----------



## No Deal

I am beginning to question my priorities.


----------



## bluestorm1992

No Deal said:


> I am beginning to question my priorities.


You probably do pick ups a lot.


----------



## fuhransahis

No Deal said:


> I am beginning to question my priorities.



Clearly... get it together man. Why is there only 1 wine bottle??


----------



## No Deal

fuhransahis said:


> Clearly... get it together man. Why is there only 1 wine bottle??


  Going out for more today.

Thoroughly enjoying this amplifier.


----------



## 425455

No Deal said:


> I am beginning to question my priorities.


I love this!


----------



## Currawong

Spoiler: Off-topic about forwarders






HiFiHawaii808 said:


> My driver's license has my home address.   Not sure how providing a utility bill would help.    I understand that there are international laws that need to be followed.   But I can definitely say that Van Nuy's stance on shipping product over seas by using a freight forwarder is the most effective sales prevention vehicle I've seen in this industry.


You have to understand, Van Nuys does not care at all about selling to customers outside of Japan.  Some small companies here will refuse shipment to known forwarders even.  By not selling direct to customers overseas, it absolves them of all responsibility for dealing with any issues, which would take up too much of their time. 

My wife works for a small company that sells a large variety of goods. For a while, they were selling Japanese stationary to people in the US via Amazon. Even before COVID, due to how messed up delivery is in the US from weather and other events, they had to have dedicated staff to deal with the complaints about products not arriving the next day (even though the shipping was stated as being a couple of weeks at least) and the A-Z guarantee, which even failed with products fulfilled by Amazon. So, in the end, they gave up and stuck to selling inside Japan only.

About the address issue when using a forwarder: We had a scammer here some years ago who was clever, and would ask people for ID, such as a passport, which he would then use to scam others! So, proving your address matches prevents that.


----------



## ian91

I haven't been to this thread in a long time but the C9 is still by my side, months after purchase, making everything I plug into it sound several times better. Earbuds have become a new interest of mine and the higher impedance ones really sound nice from the C9 in Tube mode. 

I have recently also found an incredible synergy with the Geek Wold GK10 IEM, which is only $45 dollars, but with an incredibly low impedance and high power requirement to shine the C9 is a life saver. If anyone wants to treat themselves to a cheap IEM that punches well above its price point with a good C9 synergy - go for it! I'm in no way affiliated to the sellers of this IEM by the way, I've just spent the last 3 days in awe of the sound this and the C9 produces. A stellar combo!


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Currawong said:


> Spoiler: Off-topic about forwarders
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If they don't care about selling to people outside of Japan, then the should stop allowing their products to be sold outside of Japan.   They endorse the freight forwarders and the experience in using them stinks.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

ian91 said:


> I haven't been to this thread in a long time but the C9 is still by my side, months after purchase, making everything I plug into it sound several times better. Earbuds have become a new interest of mine and the higher impedance ones really sound nice from the C9 in Tube mode.
> 
> I have recently also found an incredible synergy with the Geek Wold GK10 IEM, which is only $45 dollars, but with an incredibly low impedance and high power requirement to shine the C9 is a life saver. If anyone wants to treat themselves to a cheap IEM that punches well above its price point with a good C9 synergy - go for it! I'm in no way affiliated to the sellers of this IEM by the way, I've just spent the last 3 days in awe of the sound this and the C9 produces. A stellar combo!


the thing I really love about the C9 is that I can plug into it to get better sound or unplug from it to get better mobility.    And, if you get a product with true line out, the sound signature is the same, just enhanced.


----------



## ian91

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> the thing I really love about the C9 is that I can plug into it to get better sound or unplug from it to get better mobility.    And, if you get a product with true line out, the sound signature is the same, just enhanced.



Exactly! It's a great amplifier. I need to invest in some batteries to keep this guy alive. Oh and a DAP with a true LO, eventually. For now though, I'm enjoying myself.


----------



## Whitigir

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> If they don't care about selling to people outside of Japan, then the should stop allowing their products to be sold outside of Japan.   They endorse the freight forwarders and the experience in using them stinks.


I guess that would be a wrong statement.  I think atm they just don’t have the capabilities to deal with foreigners ? Like communications, so and on ?


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Whitigir said:


> I guess that would be a wrong statement.  I think atm they just don’t have the capabilities to deal with foreigners ? Like communications, so and on ?


Well, I was just reacting to @Currawong 's statement that they don't care about selling outside of Japan.


----------



## jmills8

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Well, I was just reacting to @Currawong 's statement that they don't care about selling outside of Japan.


I never used any case period.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

jmills8 said:


> I never used any case period.


How do you store or travel with you iems?


----------



## Whitigir

jmills8 said:


> I never used any case period.


No cases and no protections FTW!!!


----------



## jmills8

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> How do you store or travel with you iems?


Back pack or big pockets or small waist pouch.


----------



## Currawong

Back to the C9 though (which is why I'm subscribed to this thread) I have shot a video about it which I'll try and finish editing tomorrow.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Currawong said:


> Back to the C9 though (which is why I'm subscribed to this thread) I have shot a video about it which I'll try and finish editing tomorrow.


Awesome, can you provide a teaser on what you include in the video?   I am mostly interested in the pairings you tested.


----------



## Auricon (Jul 26, 2021)

Been enjoying the DX312 (112 hrs of burn in) + Cayin C9 (84 hrs of use) desktop/home stack for the past 3 weeks. Eletech Illiad 4.4mm-4.4mm ProAdapt interconnect arrived today (23 days from ordering) and on initial listen, provided noticeable sound improvement with more air and sparkle - C9 settings on vacuum tube and AB amplification. I was also amazed how much the C9 improved the Fiio M11 Plus LTD stock sound and signature that it made me reconsider unloading it.

Wondering what an Electech Socrates 4.4mm-4.4mm interconnect match up would sound like, LOL.

Big thanks to Andrew @MusicTeck for making the C9 and UM an impulsive purchase, @Andrew DiMarcangelo at Bloom - DX312 + Socrates for best head-fi investments I've made. Also sincerest thanks goes out to @Eric Chong at Eletech with his guidance and amazing customer service.


----------



## Currawong




----------



## gazzington

Found my fav set up. n6ii a02 - empire ears legend x.  Sounds amazing


----------



## No Deal (Jul 27, 2021)

Any thoughts on the review from Currawong?


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

No Deal said:


> Any thoughts on the review from Currawong?


What were his main conclusions?


----------



## No Deal

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> What were his main conclusions?


I do not know that there were any.


----------



## jmills8

No Deal said:


> I do not know that there were any.


Sort of like an presentation ?


----------



## No Deal

jmills8 said:


> Sort of an presentation ?


That sums it up.


----------



## bluestorm1992

I want to direct everyone’s attention to three recently published excellent reviews on C9. 

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/cayin-c9-totl-tube-solid-state-portable-amplifier.24966/reviews


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> I want to direct everyone’s attention to three recently published excellent reviews on C9.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/cayin-c9-totl-tube-solid-state-portable-amplifier.24966/reviews


Wait, there was a review “tour” in the us for the C9 ?


----------



## bluestorm1992

Whitigir said:


> Wait, there was a review “tour” in the us for the C9 ?


Yessir. I believe those are the reviews coming of the tour.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Any feedback on how well the z1r pairs with the Cayin C9? Any experience you can share will be very helpful. Thank you


----------



## jmills8

srinivasvignesh said:


> Any feedback on how well the z1r pairs with the Cayin C9? Any experience you can share will be very helpful. Thank you


Its great pairing.


----------



## Currawong

No Deal said:


> I do not know that there were any.


What to conclude from my reviews is up to the viewer. It's not me who is going to be spending money on it.


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> Wait, there was a review “tour” in the us for the C9 ?



Yes, I have organised a small scale US tour by invitation.  I have invited 7 US reviewers based on their previous tour participation.  My shortlisting criteria is fairly simple:  I want to work with effective tour reviewers.  By effective, I am referring to those who consistently shared a reasonable detail review in my tour without requiring any reminder and sending out the tour package to next reviewer promptly.  Minimal delay or interference to other tour members is an important issue in tour management.

By the way, the tour is about to complete, I am planning a C9 Europe tour immediately after this, will go through my tour record and shortlist Europe tour members this weekend.   If someone is interested to get involved in the Europe C9 tour, you can drop me a PM but you need to describe your previous tour participation.


----------



## No Deal

Currawong said:


> What to conclude from my reviews is up to the viewer. It's not me who is going to be spending money on it.


Hmmm.  O.K.


----------



## Nostoi

No Deal said:


> Hmmm.  O.K.


Some reviews are like complex works of art, the interpretation of which is dependent wholly on the viewer/listener. It's very postmodern. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Whitigir

Nostoi said:


> Some reviews are like complex works of art, the interpretation of which is dependent wholly on the viewer/listener. It's very postmodern. 🤷‍♂️


There are different reviewers, and all of them are criticized LOL

A/ You should be getting this and not that....here is why
B/ This is what I think, and this is what you should do.....though, I am Not sure, it is your choice
C/ After experiencing with the devices, this is what it does best IMO.  However, it is best to go experience it yourself 

All of them is just exactly as what you said “the interpretation of which is dependent wholly on the viewer/listener”


----------



## Nostoi

Whitigir said:


> There are different reviewers, and all of them are criticized LOL
> 
> A/ You should be getting this and not that....here is why
> B/ This is what I think, and this is what you should do.....though, I am Not sure, it is your choice
> ...


I was being a bit facetious with my comment above, though I basically agree - it's a fine line between being overly prescriptive/dogmatic in reviews and being overly ambiguous. After all, reviewing audio gear isn't as easily quantifiable as reviewing Black & Decker dustbusters (a pet subject of mine).


----------



## fiascogarcia

Whitigir said:


> There are different reviewers, and all of them are criticized LOL
> 
> A/ You should be getting this and not that....here is why
> B/ This is what I think, and this is what you should do.....though, I am Not sure, it is your choice
> ...


Good points, and I feel Currawong's review falls into category C.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

fiascogarcia said:


> Good points, and I feel Currawong's review falls into category C.


Great.   Can someone describe what he paired it with and what he thought it was good at?    From there, I'll decided if I want to invest the time in listening to it.     I already own one, so I was trying to see if he had any interesting new insight that we haven't discussed yet.    If so, I'll give it a listen.


----------



## fuhransahis

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Great.   Can someone describe what he paired it with and what he thought it was good at?    From there, I'll decided if I want to invest the time in listening to it.     I already own one, so I was trying to see if he had any interesting new insight that we haven't discussed yet.    If so, I'll give it a listen.



No real insight impressions-wise for current owners, but I did learn from his discussion on crosstalk separation and how big of a difference there was in the SE vs BAL outputs, and is something to keep a lookout for (to me) going forward in certain products. Basically the C9 performs best using its balanced output by a noticeable amount. That might not be the case in all products for sure, but here it is.

Otherwise the review states its a versatile, smartly built amp that can get you good desktop performance in a transportable package.


----------



## No Deal

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Great.   Can someone describe what he paired it with and what he thought it was good at?    From there, I'll decided if I want to invest the time in listening to it.     I already own one, so I was trying to see if he had any interesting new insight that we haven't discussed yet.    If so, I'll give it a listen.


My sentiments exactly.


----------



## Currawong

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Great.   Can someone describe what he paired it with and what he thought it was good at?    From there, I'll decided if I want to invest the time in listening to it.     I already own one, so I was trying to see if he had any interesting new insight that we haven't discussed yet.    If so, I'll give it a listen.


Why not just watch the review? I'm sure that you've spent way more than it's 20 or so minutes length reading and writing posts in this thread alone.


----------



## RTodd (Jul 29, 2021)

Currawong said:


> Why not just watch the review? I'm sure that you've spent way more than it's 20 or so minutes length reading and writing posts in this thread alone.


I appreciated your review, it is more for someone that does not already have a C9, well at least for me, as everything you covered I knew well already. The C9 is great for my use case as I do not use any desk top style hardware. My Thummim and C9, love it.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

fuhransahis said:


> No real insight impressions-wise for current owners, but I did learn from his discussion on crosstalk separation and how big of a difference there was in the SE vs BAL outputs, and is something to keep a lookout for (to me) going forward in certain products. Basically the C9 performs best using its balanced output by a noticeable amount. That might not be the case in all products for sure, but here it is.
> 
> Otherwise the review states its a versatile, smartly built amp that can get you good desktop performance in a transportable package.


Thanks.  That's all I wanted to know.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Currawong said:


> Why not just watch the review? I'm sure that you've spent way more than it's 20 or so minutes length reading and writing posts in this thread alone.


Because at the moment, I can't stand YouTube because I had to cancel my YouTube Premium membership.   So, I have to watch commercials to watch anything.   I am trying to avoid that


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

I just picked up a Chord Hugo TT2.   Been listening to it all day.    I did audition it first, so I knew what to expect.   It really does pair up with the Focal Utopia spectacularly.   It really highlights just how resolving the Utopia is.   The Arya did not sound as good relatively speaking until I paired it with the C9.    Direct to the TT2, the Arya was pretty feeble in the bass.  The C9 really gave the bass more depth and texture.     The C9 does make a complementary addition to the built in AMP of the TT2.   In solid state mode, it brings more transparency and clarity to the sound.   With tube mode, it takes off some edges to the highs of the Ayra at the same time it brings warmth to the bass.   I was interested in the TT2 + C9 pairing after I had such good luck with the Hugo 2 + C9.


----------



## fuhransahis

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I just picked up a Chord Hugo TT2.   Been listening to it all day.    I did audition it first, so I knew what to expect.   It really does pair up with the Focal Utopia spectacularly.   It really highlights just how resolving the Utopia is.   The Arya did not sound as good relatively speaking until I paired it with the C9.    Direct to the TT2, the Arya was pretty feeble in the bass.  The C9 really gave the bass more depth and texture.     The C9 does make a complementary addition to the built in AMP of the TT2.   In solid state mode, it brings more transparency and clarity to the sound.   With tube mode, it takes off some edges to the highs of the Ayra at the same time it brings warmth to the bass.   I was interested in the TT2 + C9 pairing after I had such good luck with the Hugo 2 + C9.



I'm surprised you're not exploring more desktop tube amps that are upgrades to the BHC to pair with the VC, do you prefer it with more solid state/neutral-ish pairings?


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Jul 29, 2021)

fuhransahis said:


> I'm surprised you're not exploring more desktop tube amps that are upgrades to the BHC to pair with the VC, do you prefer it with more solid state/neutral-ish pairings?


I am going to add a new tube amp to pair with the TT2.   I will probably buy one right after CanJamSoCal.   I am leaning toward a Forge, but might get either a Pendant SE or Primaluna Evo 100.   This will be primarily for the VC, but I a trying to get a tube amp that can drive most of my full sized headphones.


----------



## 14christ

Sure do wish I could find one of these on sale or in the forums.


----------



## Andykong

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I am going to add a new tube amp to pair with the TT2.   I will probably buy one right after CanJamSoCal.   I am leaning toward a Forge, but might get either a Pendant SE or Primaluna Evo 100.   This will be primarily for the VC, but I a trying to get a tube amp that can drive most of my full sized headphones.



You need the speaker output of EVO 100?


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Jul 29, 2021)

Andykong said:


> You need the speaker output of EVO 100?


Sorry, I should have been more specific.  I am considering specifically the Primaluna Evo 100 Integrated AMP.    It has an integrated headphone AMP and 6.3mm output.

https://www.primaluna-usa.com/primaluna-evo-100-tube-integrated

The speaker output is not important to me right now.    The primary reason I am considering the EVO 100 is because I was so stunned by the pairing of the EVO 100 tube DAC and EVO 400.  That is over kill for my needs, so I wanted to see how good the EVO 100 integrated AMP is relative to the Forge and Pendant SE.   All of these AMPs are in the $2250-2750 price bracket.


----------



## fuhransahis

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I am going to add a new tube amp to pair with the TT2.   I will probably buy one right after CanJamSoCal.   I am leaning toward a Forge, but might get either a Pendant SE or Primaluna Evo 100.   This will be primarily for the VC, but I a trying to get a tube amp that can drive most of my full sized headphones.



The Pendant indeed would be a good option there. It's pure magic with the VC but also friendly towards Planars.

The quality and impressiveness of the C9 is funnily what drove me to wonder what a dedicated desktop tube amp could do.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

fuhransahis said:


> The Pendant indeed would be a good option there. It's pure magic with the VC but also friendly towards Planars.
> 
> The quality and impressiveness of the C9 is funnily what drove me to wonder what a dedicated desktop tube amp could do.


I am so glad you decided not to sell your Pendant.   You have a matching set, too.    Have you heard the Forge yet?    I told Justin my requirements and based on what I told him, he suggested the Forge.


----------



## Andykong

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Sorry, I should have been more specific.  I am considering specifically the Primaluna Evo 100 Integrated AMP.    It has an integrated headphone AMP and 6.3mm output.
> 
> https://www.primaluna-usa.com/primaluna-evo-100-tube-integrated
> 
> The speaker output is not important to me right now.    The primary reason I am considering the EVO 100 is because I was so stunned by the pairing of the EVO 100 tube DAC and EVO 400.  That is over kill for my needs, so I wanted to see how good the EVO 100 integrated AMP is relative to the Forge and Pendant SE.   All of these AMPs are in the $2250-2750 price bracket.



If speaker output is not important and you buy this amplifier primarily for VC, I would say the Pendant or ampsandsound are your first choice.  Zack is a tube amp. collector,  in one of the Axpona show at Chicago (Hometown for ZMF), he bought his whole collection to the show, it was a very impressive line up and his preference to ampsandsound is something you must consider if ZMF VC is your main headphone.

On the other hand, Cayin HA-6A has similar tube topology as EVO100 but we offer 3 impedance setting for both balanced and single-ended output, this should be a more versatile option if you want a tube amp that can drive most of your full sized headphones, current and future included.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Jul 30, 2021)

Andykong said:


> If speaker output is not important and you buy this amplifier primarily for VC, I would say the Pendant or ampsandsound are your first choice.  Zack is a tube amp. collector,  in one of the Axpona show at Chicago (Hometown for ZMF), he bought his whole collection to the show, it was a very impressive line up and his preference to ampsandsound is something you must consider if ZMF VC is your main headphone.
> 
> On the other hand, Cayin HA-6A has similar tube topology as EVO100 but we offer 3 impedance setting for both balanced and single-ended output, this should be a more versatile option if you want a tube amp that can drive most of your full sized headphones, current and future included.


Where are you US dealers for this AMP?    I would love the hear it.

edited to note:    I see that MusicTeck carries it.   I agree that the specs look like it better fits my need than the Evo 100.   I've been wanting to visit Andrew in New Jersey.   Only problem is Newark Airport is undergoing some required renovations and lots of flights are getting cancelled.

The PrimaLuna tube amps don't have much flexibility in impedances.   I am only considering it because I was so blown away by the 400.


----------



## Andykong

Currawong said:


> What to conclude from my reviews is up to the viewer. It's not me who is going to be spending money on it.





RTodd said:


> I appreciated your review, it is more for someone that does not already have a C9, well at least for me, as everything you covered I knew well already. The C9 is great for my use case as I do not use any desk top style hardware. My Thummim and C9, love it.



I for one am grateful to Currawong's C9 review.  He provides a very thorough walkthrough of C9 design and operation, this is very helpful to potential customers, especially to new comers of this hobby who didn't have first hand experience with portable amplifier or stacks.    If you are looking for mix and match impressions, written reports probably will be more efficiency.  Video based review has a different strength,  and the video presentation in this Youtube review is a good example of that.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

jmills8 said:


> Its great pairing.


Hi, thanks, what configuration do you use it with? Do you mind sharing more impressions?


----------



## Whitigir

I tested the preamp/bypass output into the C9. It suffered once again the overwhelming warmth and compromises in details and imagings. _*I do not know why*_ but in my honest opinions, _I don’t recommend the C9 to pair with M8 and M30 *specifically*_. _Not that it is because of the double amplifications_ or not a true line out kinda things, but I just don’t find it enjoyable. However, I do love M8 and M30 preamp out into the other systems such as my large stereos and mini Dynalo amplifier


----------



## antdroid

I posted my review of the Cayin C9 tube amp here on Head-Fi and on my Audio Discourse blog.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

antdroid said:


> I posted my review of the Cayin C9 tube amp here on Head-Fi and on my Audio Discourse blog.


Interesting pairing.   Mojo/Poly + C9 + Susvara.    I am going to read the review.   Wondering if there is enough power to drive it properly.


----------



## antdroid

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Interesting pairing.   Mojo/Poly + C9 + Susvara.    I am going to read the review.   Wondering if there is enough power to drive it properly.



I unfortunately was only able to test with 3.5mm single-ended as that's the only cable I had with me this week. My 4.4mm balanced cable is at work and I haven't been into work for a number of reasons in over a week. I have XLR balanced cables but I don't have an XLR to 4.4mm adapter (ironically, I have 4 adapters going the other direction). If I have time, I'll grab my 4.4mm cable from my work office early this week, and update my review on balanced. Due to work travel, I wanted to get this out on a timely basis, since the unit needs to be shipped out.


----------



## Whitigir

I have made a decision to list my stack up for sale, so I can better focus my resources into other needs.  You can find the classified here.  Thank you


----------



## Nostoi

Whitigir said:


> I have made a decision to list my stack up for sale, so I can better focus my resources into other needs.  You can find the classified here.  Thank you


There are other needs?


----------



## Whitigir

Nostoi said:


> There are other needs?


Always are  lol


----------



## DaYooper

Whitigir said:


> I have made a decision to list my stack up for sale, so I can better focus my resources into other needs.  You can find the classified here.  Thank you


Good luck with that sale. Actually I think you're selling too cheap but that's just my opinion. And if I didn't have most of that stuff it would be gone already


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 3, 2021)

DaYooper said:


> Good luck with that sale. Actually I think you're selling too cheap but that's just my opinion. And if I didn't have most of that stuff it would be gone already


Thank you! This is the setup that brings the C9 to it prime atm. I am hoping to move it quickly


----------



## DaYooper

Whitigir said:


> This is the setup that brings the C9 to it prime atm.


 Totally agree. I have to say though that the N6ii-Ti straight out to the Denon A9200 is pretty sweet.. I haven't been able to tear that one off my ears yet.


----------



## antdroid (Aug 3, 2021)

i did try the susvara on balanced 4.4mm with the C9. I got it plenty loud at 11 oclock on the dial on high gain. For me personally, there are better pairings than these two, as I did find the low end to be too bloomy and mushy and lacking a little bit of control for my liking.

It works well with my other gear though, and i wasnt too surprised i didnt like sus synergy. i do want to try out the cayin iha6 one day as a relatively cheap amp for planars. its on my to try lists but i havent had an opportunity yet.


----------



## jmills8

antdroid said:


> i did try the susvara on balanced 4.4mm with the C9. I got it plenty loud at 11 oclock on the dial on high gain. For me personally, there are better pairings than these two, as I did find the low end to be too bloomy and mushy and lacking a little bit of control for my liking.
> 
> It works well with my other gear though, and i wasnt too surprised i didnt like sus synergy. i do want to try out the cayin iha6 one day as a relatively cheap amp for planars. its on my to try lists but i havent had an opportunity yet.


Could you name few of the tracks you were listening to ?


----------



## Whitigir

jmills8 said:


> Could you name few of the tracks you were listening to ?


Celine Dion “My heart will go on”


----------



## Andykong (Aug 3, 2021)

antdroid said:


> i did try the susvara on balanced 4.4mm with the C9. I got it plenty loud at 11 oclock on the dial on high gain. For me personally, there are better pairings than these two, as I did find the low end to be too bloomy and mushy and lacking a little bit of control for my liking.
> 
> It works well with my other gear though, and i wasnt too surprised i didnt like sus synergy. i do want to try out the cayin iha6 one day as a relatively cheap amp for planars. its on my to try lists but i havent had an opportunity yet.



The single end C9 definitely won't work for Susvara. I tried the balanced output of C9 with Susvara once, barely OK, I won't call it a good match with 4.4mm, and I'll consider 3.5mm as a failed pairing.

I think Abyss Diana is the limit of C9.  I want to try HEDDphone with C9 because a C9 users said they works quite well.


----------



## Whitigir

Andykong said:


> The single end C9 definitely won't work for Susvara.  I tried the balanced output once, barely OK, I won't call it a good match even with 4.4mm, and I'll consider 3.5mm as a failed pairing.


Well said Andy! Perhaps out of all the representatives in this industry are all focused toward moving and selling their products, you are the only one that are enthusiastic about the performances and technicalities of different systems, together with good advises


----------



## antdroid

jmills8 said:


> Could you name few of the tracks you were listening to ?



My normal playlists are jazz-trios, progressive bluegrass, indie rock, and alternative rock music. For my short time with the Sus, I used various tracks Bill Laurence's Live at Ronny Scott's, Crooked Still's Some Strange Country, and Of Monsters and Men's Beneath the Skin albums.



Whitigir said:


> Celine Dion “My heart will go on”


How did you know??


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> Well said Andy! Perhaps out of all the representatives in this industry are all focused toward moving and selling their products, you are the only one that are enthusiastic about the performances and technicalities of different systems, together with good advises


Thanks you, I am flattered.  When I started to do this few years back, my teammates were skeptical about my practise,  but I insisted and we started to see positive effect around 6 months later.  In fact, this is the kind of dialogue I used to maintain when I was a new comer to this hobby 20 years back.  I did share my story with Cayin all the way back when I first joined Cayin, and I have the same passion in me since that day.


----------



## Andykong

Someone started a Kennerton *Rognir tour*  

This is a closed back TOTL planar headphone and is portable friendly, I have recommended this headphone with C9 based on my previous experience with Kennerton headphone (*HERE*), and a C9 users has shared his impression with Rognir to concur my prediction.

Check it out if you are looking for a TOTL closed back headphone to pair with C9.


----------



## DarginMahkum (Aug 6, 2021)

Andykong said:


> Someone started a Kennerton *Rognir tour*
> 
> This is a closed back TOTL planar headphone and is portable friendly, I have recommended this headphone with C9 based on my previous experience with Kennerton headphone (*HERE*), and a C9 users has shared his impression with Rognir to concur my prediction.
> 
> Check it out if you are looking for a TOTL closed back headphone to pair with C9.


Find the little C9 and Rögnir in this photo.  I tried the C9 at last today with Kennerton Thekk and I am impressed with the clarity.


----------



## Nostoi

DarginMahkum said:


> Find the little C9 and Rögnir in this photo.  I tried the C9 at last today with Kennerton Thekk and I am impressed with the clarity.


Nice. And agreed - the Rögnir also sounds truly incredible with the C9/A02. Such a satisfying pairing. 

Off topic - like that RME and Broadway pairing, too.


----------



## FooFighter

anyone encountered partial tube failure on C9?
Device is 1 month old...


----------



## RTodd

FooFighter said:


> anyone encountered partial tube failure on C9?
> Device is 1 month old...


First time I’ve seen this. Mine has around 2000 hours now, no issues. Leaves you only SS and need to have repaired, or replaced?


----------



## Whitigir

RTodd said:


> First time I’ve seen this. Mine has around 2000 hours now, no issues. Leaves you only SS and need to have repaired, or replaced?


I wonder what happened ? From the pictures, there are not much to tell


----------



## DarginMahkum

Whitigir said:


> I wonder what happened ? From the pictures, there are not much to tell


FooFighter shipped it to me, I switched to tube mode and the left one is not coming up. Maybe something during shipment. Andy recommended handling it via warranty.


----------



## Kiats

It can happen. When I first got my C9 on 1 April, this was what I found when I was listening on the SS output and then had this surprise when I switched to tube output. This was out of the box...


----------



## jmills8

Kiats said:


> It can happen. When I first got my C9 on 1 April, this was what I found when I was listening on the SS output and then had this surprise when I switched to tube output. This was out of the box...


Good positive posting with the intention of ?


----------



## Whitigir

Kiats said:


> It can happen. When I first got my C9 on 1 April, this was what I found when I was listening on the SS output and then had this surprise when I switched to tube output. This was out of the box...





jmills8 said:


> Good positive posting with the intention of ?


Defect happens, and hence the warranty !! This picture look better than the last one lol


----------



## FooFighter

Just to update, Andrew will take the defective C9 back for inspection/exchange.
Only issue is the horrible shipping policies from Europe back to USA, specifically if Lithium batteries are involved.
Sending a device like C9 with batteries attached within one week via e.g. UPS will cost you more than 300 Eur...
Potentially now sending without batteries...


----------



## Whitigir

FooFighter said:


> Just to update, Andrew will take the defective C9 back for inspection/exchange.
> Only issue is the horrible shipping policies from Europe back to USA, specifically if Lithium batteries are involved.
> Sending a device like C9 with batteries attached within one week via e.g. UPS will cost you more than 300 Eur...
> Potentially now sending without batteries...


Yepe!! The same as USA going out atm.  You better take out the battery, and declare it for repair and parts as in nonfunctional.  Otherwise, it would be hell!!!
Here we have @MusicTeck to take care and tackles of small defects like a lose connectors and so on in the states!!


----------



## Kiats

Whitigir said:


> Defect happens, and hence the warranty !! This picture look better than the last one lol



Indeed! Once it came back, touch wood, the nutubes have been going strong... So @FooFighter, I’m sure Andrew @MusicTeck can easily take care of it.


----------



## DarginMahkum

Whitigir said:


> Yepe!! The same as USA going out atm.  You better take out the battery, and declare it for repair and parts as in nonfunctional.  Otherwise, it would be hell!!!
> Here we have @MusicTeck to take care and tackles of small defects like a lose connectors and so on in the states!!


I actually would love to open it myself and check for any lose connections, but I guess that would void the warranty.


----------



## Whitigir

DarginMahkum said:


> I actually would love to open it myself and check for any lose connections, but I guess that would void the warranty.


That is what I would do, but I also would need confirmations from someone like Andy to give a green light first.  Because there could be more, like the tubes works but… the switching transistors is dead , then that would be another story. So, if it is this circumstance, you will need warranty or service schematics to know which one to trace down and repair, which wouldn’t happen LOL


----------



## Andykong

FooFighter said:


> Just to update, Andrew will take the defective C9 back for inspection/exchange.
> Only issue is the horrible shipping policies from Europe back to USA, specifically if Lithium batteries are involved.
> Sending a device like C9 with batteries attached within one week via e.g. UPS will cost you more than 300 Eur...
> Potentially now sending without batteries...



Send it out without the lithium battery.  The battery is definitely not part of the problem.

Lithium battery will increase the shipping cost significantly.


----------



## DarginMahkum

Andykong said:


> Send it out without the lithium battery.  The battery is definitely not part of the problem.
> 
> Lithium battery will increase the shipping cost significantly.


Does it have to go through the dealer, I mean, can it be directly sent to Cayin? Also can I open it up myself and check for any lose connections before sending without voiding the warranty?


----------



## Whitigir

DarginMahkum said:


> Does it have to go through the dealer, I mean, can it be directly sent to Cayin? Also can I open it up myself and check for any lose connections before sending without voiding the warranty?


Usually if the manufacturer approve such, you need to be capable and will be an isolated approval …. Well, just IME


----------



## Kiats

Since the M11Plus LTD arrived, have not brought it out for a spin with the C9. The Difference with the M15 is the M11Plus comes with a balanced LO as well. The M15 had a good SE LO. Thus far, in the short listen, so does the M11 Plus with the balanced LO.


----------



## Andykong

DarginMahkum said:


> Does it have to go through the dealer, I mean, can it be directly sent to Cayin? Also can I open it up myself and check for any lose connections before sending without voiding the warranty?



Yes, you need to send it back to dealer.  If you send it to us directly, there is good chance that you have to pay 20% import tax.  Dealer knows the system and they have the original import document to prove that this is a returned item.  It doesn't matter how you declare on your waybill, if the Chinese custom office decided to charge you, you don't have an appeal channel.

Yes, if you open the chassis, you'll void the warranty.


----------



## 111MilesToGo (Aug 9, 2021)

To @Andykong, and also @Whitigir and @DarginMahkum: You have been discussing the ”one of the L/R Nutube channels failed completely“ issue. This reminded me of a fact with my C9:

Right out of the box on day one, the brightness of the Nutube greenish-blueish illuminations has been different for L and R. The enclosed photograph tries to capture this, but the brightness difference is larger to the eye than the image shows. The Nutube on the right hand size of the image glows less than the l.h.s.

I cannot hear differences between L and R. A mono signal is dead center, and there are no audible L/R differences e.g. in dynamics or perceived tonality.

I didn‘t worry at all until I read about @FooFighter ‘s channel failure. And I want to keep on without worries.

Anybody out there with an illumination difference?

My C9 is 3.5 months old, purchased new directly from the German importer.


----------



## Whitigir

111MilesToGo said:


> To @Andykong, and also @Whitigir and @DarginMahkum: You have been discussing the ”one of the L/R Nutube channels failed completely“ issue. This reminded me of a fact with my C9:
> 
> Right out of the box on day one, the brightness of the Nutube greenish-blueish illuminations has been different for L and R. The enclosed photograph tries to capture this, but the brightness difference is larger to the eye than the image shows. The Nutube on the right hand size of the image glows less than the l.h.s.
> 
> ...


If the brightness is visually inspected, you should take it to the dealer and ask them ?


----------



## ssriram2791

I have been reading through threads about the dangers of not carefully using 18650 batteries. 

I have few questions and hope folks in this thread could educate me on this (baby steps)

I am assuming I have a C9 fully charged and then run through worst case battery loading (Class A, Tubes. 4.4 mm) for about 4 hours and my battery indicator comes to 25%

1. By this time, it would be quite hot being ran at worst case load. Should I wait for an hour or so for it to cool down before charging back to full ? 

2. Lets say, I have a spare battery module with 4 batteries. Can I charge the spare module separately without keeping it inserted in C9 during charging ?  

3. Considering the situation as presented in #1, where the C9 frame/chassis is hot from usage, could I just remove the existing module and replace it fully charged spare module, without C9 need to be cooled down. Would the chassis heat affect the spare module batteries if I hot swap ?

4. If I buy say 8-12 orbtronic batteries, will it be ok to fully charge 4 of them using battery module and then keep them in their protective case until I need to swap batteries ? Will it be safe to leave a fully charged 3500 mAh battery in the protective case ? 

I would like to receive kind feedback from members on this thread. Thank you !


----------



## RTodd

ssriram2791 said:


> I have been reading through threads about the dangers of not carefully using 18650 batteries.
> 
> I have few questions and hope folks in this thread could educate me on this (baby steps)
> 
> ...


No expert, have been using my C9 for many months now so think I can add some value here for you.

1) I have never had an issue charging immediately after power runs out, after several hours in tube A mode.

2) Do not have a separate module so I leave the battery module in when charging. I do believe you can remove it to charge it if you wish.
I will note when down to just one of the four lights on, I do not think that represents 25% time remaining at least for my unit, when down to one light on, it does not last more than 30 minutes.

3) Never actually tried this, guessing there would be no issue putting a replacement fully charged power module into a C9 that is warm from listening with the former now exhausted power module.

4) Fairly sure I read here earlier, this is okay, just be careful not to mix batteries.
Same batch of 4 stays together, charged together, installed together.
And okay to keep the batteries in the spare power module until needed.

Hope that helps a little.


----------



## DaYooper

Just remember, when you swap the battery module out the C9 goes into protection mode. When putting a battery module back in you still need to plug the cable in to reset and wake up the C9. It only takes like 10 seconds so no big deal


----------



## ssriram2791

@DaYooper  Yes. I read that as well in the threads. Thanks for reiterating that. Sometimes the message can be lost. 

@RTodd Thanks for responding to each and every point. Given you have not tried spare module per se, I am requesting anyone in possession of spare battery modules to give me some feedback (questions #2 and #3)


----------



## bigbeans (Aug 10, 2021)

FYI my C9 is for sale, a fully loaded bundle
https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/cayin-c9-fully-loaded-bundle.9148/

Edit: Also selling A02 https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/cayin-a02-n6ii-board.9150/


----------



## jmills8

bigbeans said:


> FYI my C9 is for sale, a fully loaded bundle
> https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/cayin-c9-fully-loaded-bundle.9148/
> 
> Edit: Also selling A02 https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/cayin-a02-n6ii-board.9150/


What new gear you planning to buy ?


----------



## bigbeans

jmills8 said:


> What new gear you planning to buy ?


Luxury and Precision LP6 has spoiled me and LP7 is on the horizon. For anyone not willing to shell out for it, C9 (especially with A02) is tremendous value.


----------



## davidmolliere

jmills8 said:


> What new gear you planning to buy ?



Given the number of C9 / A02 going since the N8ii announcement my bet would be people looking for the all in one solution that N8ii provides discrete amp, nutubes like C9 and a faster DAP with better DAC than N6ii/A02


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

bigbeans said:


> Luxury and Precision LP6 has spoiled me and LP7 is on the horizon. For anyone not willing to shell out for it, C9 (especially with A02) is tremendous value.


Thank God that these DAPs don't support streaming.


----------



## jmills8

bigbeans said:


> Luxury and Precision LP6 has spoiled me and LP7 is on the horizon. For anyone not willing to shell out for it, C9 (especially with A02) is tremendous value.


I had L&P Ti.


----------



## Nostoi

davidmolliere said:


> Given the number of C9 / A02 going since the N8ii announcement my bet would be people looking for the all in one solution that N8ii provides discrete amp, nutubes like C9 and a faster DAP with better DAC than N6ii/A02


Yes, except that C9 will likely have much longer life than many of these DAPs and can be added to any existing DAP. I'll also be interested to see if N8II can compete in terms of output. 

It's true, tho - some people aren't into stacking.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Aug 10, 2021)

Nostoi said:


> Yes, except that C9 will likely have much longer life than many of these DAPs and can be added to any existing DAP. I'll also be interested to see if N8II can compete in terms of output.
> 
> It's true, tho - some people aren't into stacking.


Great point.   Separating the DAC and AMP prevents an owner from having to keep repurchasing amps over and over again instead of just investing in one great one.

I love stacking because you can separate from the mothership and get 2 use cases.    Those huge bricks are not good for listening outside anyway.


----------



## Nostoi

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Great point.   Separating the DAC and AMP prevents an owner from having to keep repurchasing amps over and over again instead of just investing in one great one.
> 
> I love stacking because you can separate from the mothership and get 2 use cases.    Those huge bricks are not good for listening outside anyway.


I agree. I'm a big believer in external portable amps for any DAP. They tend to have a variation of uses and even in the top-tier DAPS, I find a decent external amp generally performs better than the DAP's amp.  Plus - especially with the C9 - the fact that you have replaceable batteries means longevity. 

That said, if the N8ii's amp stage can compete with the C9, then that would be quite the result.


----------



## jmills8

Nostoi said:


> Yes, except that C9 will likely have much longer life than many of these DAPs and can be added to any existing DAP. I'll also be interested to see if N8II can compete in terms of output.
> 
> It's true, tho - some people aren't into stacking.


Or buy two new N8s


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 10, 2021)

davidmolliere said:


> Given the number of C9 / A02 going since the N8ii announcement my bet would be people looking for the all in one solution that N8ii provides discrete amp, nutubes like C9 and a faster DAP with better DAC than N6ii/A02


If that is what people is hoping for, sure. The all in one solution just can not be technically brought about like that.  First of all, digital processors are running on 5.5V rails, lithium packs are 3.6V or 7.2V if in parallel.  Then they would need to be separated out with different conversions.  Giving that the C9 as a discrete and dedicated piece which still gives off considerable warmth in operation with dual tubes modes together with the power that it is consuming, I don’t see it possible for Cayin to do it better with any all in one piece.  So something will have to give

My take is that, if power isn’t what you are aiming for, and compromises somewhat from the C9/A02 stacks then the N8ii will satisfy it, otherwise, I don’t see it happening

Especially for my needs, I am sticking with my M30 , and I possibly be looking for an all in one that I can compromise and also have tubes , so either the new AK SP2KT or N8ii , but shanling M9 is also on the list since I love shanling house sound.  The C9/A02 is currently topping any portable system in a compact form, if anyone want to be better than that, they would have to go either M30 in form or DMP Z1, but that is just IME.  In the shades of all the new releases, the C9 stacks has a huge advantage, that you can also pair any of the new DAP toward the C9, and that the C9 batteries are easily swappable.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Aug 10, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> If that is what people is hoping for, sure. The all in one solution just can not be technically brought about like that.  First of all, digital processors are running on 5.5V rails, lithium packs are 3.6V or 7.2V if in parallel.  Then they would need to be separated out with different conversions.  Giving that the C9 as a discrete and dedicated piece which still gives off considerable warmth in operation with dual tubes modes together with the power that it is consuming, I don’t see it possible for Cayin to do it better with any all in one piece.  So something will have to give
> 
> My take is that, if power isn’t what you are aiming for, and compromises somewhat from the C9/A02 stacks then the N8ii will satisfy it, otherwise, I don’t see it happening
> 
> Especially for my needs, I am sticking with my M30 , and I possibly be looking for an all in one that I can compromise and also have tubes , so either the new AK SP2KT or N8ii , but shanling M9 is also on the list since I love shanling house sound.  The C9/A02 is currently topping any portable system in a compact form, if anyone want to be better than that, they would have to go either M30 in form or DMP Z1, but that is just IME.  In the shades of all the new releases, the C9 stacks has a huge advantage, that you can also pair any of the new DAP toward the C9, and that the C9 batteries are easily swappable.


All that for portability.  If you really want to do it right, you should go full desktop.   Once you do that, the upside potential is significantly raised and price/performance really improves a lot.


----------



## Whitigir

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> All that for portability.  If you really want to do it right, you should go full desktop.


Already got desktop, but I want something that I can bring around with me and not have to sit still stationary lol!!!


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Whitigir said:


> Already got desktop, but I want something that I can bring around with me and not have to sit still stationary lol!!!


If you are going to carry around an M30, you may as well carrying around a TT2.


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 10, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> If you are going to carry around an M30, you may as well carrying around a TT2.


Thought about it, but the M30 has so much more features , especially it being modular with true balanced architecture.  The main thing is that I love shanling house sound even more than Sony, and between Chord/Sony I would pick Sony lol


----------



## utdeep

Friends - what's the best small DAP or USB Dongle that can act as a decent source for the Cayin C9?  I have the L&P W2 but I don't think it has a line out mode.  I have been eying the Hiby R5 Saber and the Shanling M3X.

I had a Hiby R8, but I didn't love the combination with the Cayin C9.


----------



## RTodd

utdeep said:


> Friends - what's the best small DAP or USB Dongle that can act as a decent source for the Cayin C9?  I have the L&P W2 but I don't think it has a line out mode.  I have been eying the Hiby R5 Saber and the Shanling M3X.
> 
> I had a Hiby R8, but I didn't love the combination with the Cayin C9.


I like the PAW6000 with the C9. True line out, screen inverts as an option, lifts the P6K to 3K$ plus sound quality in my opinion.

If you want streaming than not the best choice, as you would have to USB or Bluetooth for that into the PAW.


----------



## bigbeans

If you want to use a DAP with greater flexibility in placement, I'm selling a Gravedigger 1.5m interconnect (https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/4-4mm-interconnect-corpse-grave-digger-1-5m.9179/). 

You can mount a DAP on a stand like this (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08CXGQ57S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and interact with easily. I've attached an example, it's like your own private listening station!


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Aug 10, 2021)

utdeep said:


> Friends - what's the best small DAP or USB Dongle that can act as a decent source for the Cayin C9?  I have the L&P W2 but I don't think it has a line out mode.  I have been eying the Hiby R5 Saber and the Shanling M3X.
> 
> I had a Hiby R8, but I didn't love the combination with the Cayin C9.


I would get a good Dac or Dap.   My experience is the C9 performs better with better Dacs.   Get something with a true line out too


----------



## bluestorm1992

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I would get a good Dac or Dap.   My experience is the C9 performs better with better Dacs.   Get something with a true line out too


I would second this suggestion. You get totally different experience with different levels of DAPs. In my own experience, M8+C9=M30 level of sound, while P6 Pro +C9 is a much improvement from that.


----------



## Auricon

Special delivery arrived from Japan post today. Was looking for a DAP + C9 carrying case and read that Van Nuys Japan made a custom one for the C9. Having collected G-Shocks from Japan over the years made this relatively easy, or so I thought. Van Nuys made it challenging ordering from them directly even with a Tenso/FromJP forwarding service and Rakuten JP accounts. Decided to hit Amazon Japan and order from there, used my Tenso info and checkout was a breeze.

Received a note back from Van Nuys saying there a delay in delivery due to demand - order Jul 18, expected stock Aug 3-12. Got a charge notice on the Aug 3, delivery from Van Nuys to Tenso, then overseas trip to WDC.

Overall quality is quite nice, padded, meshed, great detailing - expensive but worth $120. Able to fit my DX312 and C9 in their respective cases - snug fit with some room. The handle strap makes it nice to lug the stack around the house. I'll probably use it for more portable carrying case than use it for playback, case it's a bit of work to remove the DAP and adjust music selection.


----------



## Whitigir

bluestorm1992 said:


> I would second this suggestion. You get totally different experience with different levels of DAPs. In my own experience, M8+C9=M30 level of sound, while P6 Pro +C9 is a much improvement from that.


Agreed that the C9 will scale tremendously with the sources!!!


----------



## bigbeans

Nice Iliad Interconnect, my Iliad 6W GND version is available  (https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/eletech-iliad-6w-gnd.9189/)

Although I am quite impressed with the stock IC, Cayin didn't skimp the one in the box!


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Auricon said:


> Special delivery arrived from Japan post today. Was looking for a DAP + C9 carrying case and read that Van Nuys Japan made a custom one for the C9. Having collected G-Shocks from Japan over the years made this relatively easy, or so I thought. Van Nuys made it challenging ordering from them directly even with a Tenso/FromJP forwarding service and Rakuten JP accounts. Decided to hit Amazon Japan and order from there, used my Tenso info and checkout was a breeze.
> 
> Received a note back from Van Nuys saying there a delay in delivery due to demand - order Jul 18, expected stock Aug 3-12. Got a charge notice on the Aug 3, delivery from Van Nuys to Tenso, then overseas trip to WDC.
> 
> Overall quality is quite nice, padded, meshed, great detailing - expensive but worth $120. Able to fit my DX312 and C9 in their respective cases - snug fit with some room. The handle strap makes it nice to lug the stack around the house. I'll probably use it for more portable carrying case than use it for playback, case it's a bit of work to remove the DAP and adjust music selection.


Awesome.  I just got mine this week too.   It's at home though.  I won't meet up with it until the end of the month.


----------



## Whitigir

I have done a bit of comparisons and shared it Here, including C9! Enjoy it guys


----------



## Andykong

111MilesToGo said:


> To @Andykong, and also @Whitigir and @DarginMahkum: You have been discussing the ”one of the L/R Nutube channels failed completely“ issue. This reminded me of a fact with my C9:
> 
> Right out of the box on day one, the brightness of the Nutube greenish-blueish illuminations has been different for L and R. The enclosed photograph tries to capture this, but the brightness difference is larger to the eye than the image shows. The Nutube on the right hand size of the image glows less than the l.h.s.
> 
> ...



As an experienced vacuum tube amplifier manufacturer, we have developed a list of test to examine the condition of a vacuum tube before we used it in our amplifier.  We are quite sure our QA list is very effective given we are using hundred thousands of tubes per year, but brightness of a vacuum tube is not one of the test items. The filament must be light up and visually recognisable,  but we don't need to evaluate the brightness of filament even with matched pair design.

Likewise, we have a list of tests to examine the condition of a Nutube 6P1 before we install it into N8 or C9, but brightness of LED (filament) is not one of our test items.  The Nutube will perform exactly as designed even when the LED intensity are varied.  On the other hand, the LED technologies are significantly more uniform than the filament of traditional vacuum tube, so inbalanced LED intensity between left and right Nutube in C9 is not common.


----------



## Andykong

ssriram2791 said:


> I have been reading through threads about the dangers of not carefully using 18650 batteries.
> 
> I have few questions and hope folks in this thread could educate me on this (baby steps)
> 
> ...



1.  No, you don't need to wait for the amplifier to cool down,  you can charge the C9 immediately after you stop playback.  

2.  Yes, the battery module is a power supply and QC3.0 18650 charger 2in1.  you can charge your second set of battery in the battery module seperately.

3.  Yes, and that's the whole point of allowing users to buy second battery module: facilitate non-stop (almost) playback.  You don't need to cool down the amplifier, just plug in a fully charge module and continue your music session immediately.

4.  Yes, you can have several set of 4x18650 batteries and swap them out anytime, the only requirements is to replace all 4 battery at the same time.  Don't replace one or two batteries.  You can do that with a torch but you must not do that with C9 because the battery are connect in series, not parallel.   In fact, you can do this with any 18650 charger.  I use three sets of 4x18650 batteries before the spare battery module are available separately.  You can get a decent 4-slot 18650 charger at around $30, which is a lot cheaper if you don't want to swap the battery instantly like (3) 

Be reminded when the chassis of C9 reached 50 degree C, it become uncomfortably hot to hold in your hand, but it is still a very safe operation temperature for the  C9 circuitry. (and components).


----------



## Whitigir

50c will barely warm up when the winter reaches -20


----------



## ssriram2791

Andykong said:


> 1.  No, you don't need to wait for the amplifier to cool down,  you can charge the C9 immediately after you stop playback.
> 
> 2.  Yes, the battery module is a power supply and QC3.0 18650 charger 2in1.  you can charge your second set of battery in the battery module seperately.
> 
> ...


This is excellent advice Andy ! That is why you are awesome !

I am getting XTAR VC4s 4slot 18650 charger from Orbtronic in addition to 8 orbtronic 3500 mAh batteries so that I can charge them and keep them in protective case and swap them out when needed. 

I will be having some followup questions to ask on interconnects as well later today, though currently workung in office.

Thanks once again !


----------



## DaYooper

Whitigir said:


> I have done a bit of comparisons and shared it Here, including C9! Enjoy it guys


And nicely done.


----------



## Andykong

davidmolliere said:


> Given the number of C9 / A02 going since the N8ii announcement my bet would be people looking for the all in one solution that N8ii provides discrete amp, nutubes like C9 and a faster DAP with better DAC than N6ii/A02



N8ii will be smaller then C9, and it will carry a lot of non-amplification components such as screen, MCU, DAC, BT/WiFi, ....

N8ii will use one piece of 3.7V lithium battery to power everything in the DAP, C9 use 4x18650 (in series) to provide  +/- 8.4V non-regulated power supply to the amplification circuit only.  

If N8ii headphone amplification can compete with C9 back to back, it would be ideal and amazing, but engineering are bounded by physics, and from what I have just said, the physic is on C9's side.


----------



## davidmolliere

Andykong said:


> N8ii will be smaller then C9, and it will carry a lot of non-amplification components such as screen, MCU, DAC, BT/WiFi, ....
> 
> N8ii will use one piece of 3.7V lithium battery to power everything in the DAP, C9 use 4x18650 (in series) to provide  +/- 8.4V non-regulated power supply to the amplification circuit only.
> 
> If N8ii headphone amplification can compete with C9 back to back, it would be ideal and amazing, but engineering are bounded by physics, and from what I have just said, the physic is on C9's side.


Yeah sure not arguing there just saying depending on your priorities and gear you plug it could prove a very acceptable “compromise” 

This being said even IEMs enjoy headroom and authority I look forward to my time with C9.

I am sure getting N8ii, C9 on top why the hell not if my bonus alllows


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 11, 2021)

davidmolliere said:


> Yeah sure not arguing there just saying depending on your priorities and gear you plug it could prove a very acceptable “compromise”
> 
> This being said even IEMs enjoy headroom and authority I look forward to my time with C9.
> 
> I am sure getting N8ii, C9 on top why the hell not if my bonus alllows


Everyone is missing the point!!! The point is to get N8II with DAC + Tubes True LINE OUT + C9 = Ultimate Tubes essentials needs and the power to drive most IEMS/Buds, some easy to drive full sizes as well

Oh, and if you are in for Cayin house sound, you would be indulged by such


----------



## ssriram2791

Andykong said:


> 1.  No, you don't need to wait for the amplifier to cool down,  you can charge the C9 immediately after you stop playback.
> 
> 2.  Yes, the battery module is a power supply and QC3.0 18650 charger 2in1.  you can charge your second set of battery in the battery module seperately.
> 
> ...


 @Andykong 

I have few questions on interconnects based on some reading within the threads

1. Cayin provides two of them - 4.4 mm to 4.4 mm (without ground) and 3.5 mm to 3.5 mm (with ground ??). Now I have multiple DAPs including Cayin's flagship N8. Some of these DAPs especially the modular amp DAPs like Ibasso and Astell & Kern have 2.5 mm lineouts. *My question here is can I add a 2.5 mm adapter to one end of the 4.4 mm interconnect and plug it into 2.5 mm lineout ? * (other end 4.4 mm would go to Cayin C9 obviously) The one I am talking about looks like the one in the link below 

https://audio46.com/products/dd-ddh...m-female-to-2-5mm-male-headphone-jack-adapter

2. Following up on #1 (assuming the answer is yes to the question) , does it matter if 4.4 mm interconnect is grounded or not to connect it to 2.5 mm lineout via adapter ? 

3. I also have another tube amp "Oriolus BA300S" (it works only on preamp inputs, no line in) which I have read on Headfi threads that I can connect 3.5 mm phone out directly to 4.4 mm balanced input (by either using the adapter in the link below or an interconnect that is 3.5 mm to 4.4 mm). 

https://audio46.com/products/dd-ddh...m-female-to-3-5mm-male-headphone-jack-adapter

My question is : *Would I be able to connect say 3.5 mm phone out of Cayin N8 to 4.4 mm balanced input of Cayin C9 (Assuming I am operating in preamp in mode)  using the adapter above or interconnect method ? *


----------



## Andykong

Whitigir said:


> Everyone is missing the point!!! The point is to get N8II with DAC + Tubes True LINE OUT + C9 = Ultimate Tubes essentials needs and the power to drive most IEMS/Buds, some easy to drive full sizes as well
> 
> Oh, and if you are in for Cayin house sound, you would be indulged by such



Tube true line out?    C9 is a tube integrated amplifier, wouldn't tube based lineout become excessive, even when technically feasible.  Its like cooking a dish, you need to add some salt to bring out the flavour, but adding too much salt does not make the food more tasty.  IMHO, this is not really a  good option.  

Maybe if you stack a DAP with a regular solid state amplifier, adding a tube buffer in the line out is a good selling point, but please be reminded that the Nutube based dual timbre circuit in N8 used the tube as first stage amplification, not a buffer.


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 12, 2021)

Andykong said:


> Tube true line out?    C9 is a tube integrated amplifier, wouldn't tube based lineout become excessive, even when technically feasible.  Its like cooking a dish, you need to add some salt to bring out the flavour, but adding too much salt does not make the food more tasty.  IMHO, this is not really a  good option.
> 
> Maybe if you stack a DAP with a regular solid state amplifier, adding a tube buffer in the line out is a good selling point, but please be reminded that the Nutube based dual timbre circuit in N8 used the tube as first stage amplification, not a buffer.


Oh, believe me, there are people who loves overly sweetened donuts!!! Same as tubes!! The more tubes, the better .  Yes, I am aware of the N8 tubes that can’t answer it this way, and so I am *hopping* the N8ii possibly be using the tubes at the buffer stage. 

I do honestly look forward to this N8ii development, and salivating at any news that you may toss at me . I would think that it would make a lot of senses this way, _and since I think Cayin developments are very logical_, I have a good chance that the N8ii will be as I hoped


----------



## Andykong (Aug 12, 2021)

ssriram2791 said:


> @Andykong
> 
> I have few questions on interconnects based on some reading within the threads
> 
> ...



(1) I can't comment on the validity of the 2.5mm to 4.4mm adapter you mentioned.  We cannot certify a third party accessories unless we have tested it ourselves.   Connection 2.5mm balanced line out to 4.4mm input of C9 is fairly straight forward, as long as you have aligned the L+, L-, R+ and R- connection correctly and it should work. It can be a custom make cable, or an adapter that conform the pin definition of your 2.5mm output to the standard 4.4mm pin definition.






2.  From functional point of view, the connection is workable with or without ground.  There is no clear answer which one is superior over the other, and if you read through this thread, you can find supporter of grounded interconnect and ungrounded interconnect at the same time.   I cannot offer a black and white answer on this subject.  You have to try it out yourself to determine your personal preference.  I can tell you that I prefer grounded interconnect.  I have three 4.4mm short interconnect in my collection, 2 grounded and 1 ungrounded, and I tends to use the two grounded interconnects more often.  This is my personal preference.

3.  I cannot comment on Oriolus BA300S, I'll leave it to others.  We do not recommend 3.5mm DAP output to 4.4mm input with C9.  This will violate our input detection and we have explained this in previous discussion. (*HERE*)

What exactly do you plan to use with C9?  Why do you want to connect 3.5mm DAP output to 4.4mm balanced input when C9 has build in conversion circuit for that purpose already?   Try not to complicate yourself.


----------



## ssriram2791

@Andykong 

I was interested to try my Calyx M with C9. I understand now that this is not acceptable for device safety. Hence I will not pursue that option. I will use 3.5 mm to 3.5 mm connection for preamp in and line in modes for Calyx M (which has only PO) and other DAPs which do have true 3.5 mm lineouts. 

I am going to give a shot with 2.5 mm lineout with that adapter to 4.4 mm. I presume if I can make the lineout work, I should be able to make 2.5 mm phone out work as well. Hope everything goes fine.


----------



## Whitigir

The reason why Cayin C9 is so versatile

DAT Walkman with Line Out into C9 that does Class A and Tubes

Yepe! Portably bring all of your Nostalgia Hi-Fi and Love back to life, no doubts !! All of these stuff back then have dedicated LO


----------



## Andykong

ssriram2791 said:


> @Andykong
> 
> I was interested to try my Calyx M with C9. I understand now that this is not acceptable for device safety. Hence I will not pursue that option. I will use 3.5 mm to 3.5 mm connection for preamp in and line in modes for Calyx M (which has only PO) and other DAPs which do have true 3.5 mm lineouts.
> 
> I am going to give a shot with 2.5 mm lineout with that adapter to 4.4 mm. I presume if I can make the lineout work, I should be able to make 2.5 mm phone out work as well. Hope everything goes fine.



The Calyx M probably is not a good source for C9.  From what I recall, its phone out is high current Class A, it is very powerful with a warmish sound signature.  In general, high current and high power output are attributes that are unfavourable to preamp input mode.  Even if you can use the 3.5mm to 4.4mm adapter, it won't make any different since the C9 offers single-ended input for balanced output anyway.


----------



## Whitigir

a sexy stack of C9 is still awaiting for the next owner with price lowered.  Pm if interested


----------



## utdeep

The stack is cool, but you realize it’s not really usable unless someone buys a Cayin N6ii?  Any chance that is part of your sale @Whitigir ?


----------



## jmills8

utdeep said:


> The stack is cool, but you realize it’s not really usable unless someone buys a Cayin N6ii?  Any chance that is part of your sale @Whitigir ?


What ? You can use any dap you like.


----------



## ssriram2791

utdeep said:


> The stack is cool, but you realize it’s not really usable unless someone buys a Cayin N6ii?  Any chance that is part of your sale @Whitigir ?


I also agree with @jmills8  above

I too have a lot of high end DAPs (Cayin N8, Ibasso 220Max, Hiby R8) which are way better than stock N6ii (that comes with A01) - This is just my perspective and this will not be universally acceptable as everyone's tastes are different. I simply feel C9 is here to give more interesting sound signatures with each of the DAPs based on synergy. 

I  have seen enough comments here to see "N6ii+A02+C9 is godly" or "DX300+Amp12+C9 is godly" or something else. Does this mean someone need to purchase those 2 DAPs for the sake of pairing with C9 ? 

Lets all enjoy the music ! Having a portable amp like C9 with variety of sound signatures it offers gives you option to play DAPs years from now regardless how they are priced. I am happy to see something of this kind exists.


----------



## xand

I think the source obviously needs to be a DX300 Max Titanium.


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 14, 2021)

utdeep said:


> The stack is cool, but you realize it’s not really usable unless someone buys a Cayin N6ii?  Any chance that is part of your sale @Whitigir ?


My stack is *Cayin C9+ N6ii+A02+T01 modified + Pure gold interconnect + Orbtronic batteries + Pelican carrying case + N6ii Dignis case + I2S cables in this transaction*

Should there be something else ? Unless you meant a second N6ii to go with that T01 in order to use both at the same time LOL 

anyways, shoot me PM if anyone is seriously interested


----------



## utdeep

You’re right!  It actually includes the Cayin N6ii.  @Whitigir - ignore.  This is an incredible combo


----------



## utdeep

Selling a battery module with Orbitronic batteries:
https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/cayin-c9-battery-module-with-orbtronic-batteries.9375/


----------



## chojeongsik

When I listened to it in Vacuum Mode, the warm air fills the space with a slight reverberation. Some amps have a strong tube-like feel, which reduces sound clarity, but the C9's resolution is quite good.


----------



## Whitigir

chojeongsik said:


> When I listened to it in Vacuum Mode, the warm air fills the space with a slight reverberation. Some amps have a strong tube-like feel, which reduces sound clarity, but the C9's resolution is quite good.


Pretty much agreed


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

chojeongsik said:


> When I listened to it in Vacuum Mode, the warm air fills the space with a slight reverberation. Some amps have a strong tube-like feel, which reduces sound clarity, but the C9's resolution is quite good.


I agree with you.


----------



## No Deal (Aug 18, 2021)

Just picked up my Van Nuys carrying case.  Trying out a pair of the belt hangers. Not bad.  It might be a bit much to wear in the office though.


----------



## fuhransahis

No Deal said:


> Just picked up my Van Nuys carrying case.  Trying out a pair of the belt hangers. Not bad.  It might be a bit much to wear in the office though.



Wowowow there's a lady magnet if I ever saw one


----------



## Whitigir

No Deal said:


> Just picked up my Van Nuys carrying case.  Trying out a pair of the belt hangers. Not bad.  It might be a bit much to wear in the office though.


That actually look so freaking good!!!


----------



## TheHelper1964

fuhransahis said:


> Wowowow there's a lady magnet if I ever saw one


That put a smile on my face this morning....thank you lol


----------



## nuhor68

Hello! Has anyone tried SP1000 with C9? Thank you!


----------



## srinivasvignesh

nuhor68 said:


> Hello! Has anyone tried SP1000 with C9? Thank you!


Would like this pairing thoughts!!  Along with IER-Z1R !


----------



## DarginMahkum (Aug 19, 2021)

...and in the meanwhile, my (!) C9 with a dead tube is waiting to be shipped to US, and be sent back to me -  process that would take 2 to 3 months. Of course, they also have to send it to China. Apparently the original buyer had no problem and it got broken during shipment and a C9 with a dead tube landed on my table - which sucks big time. I learned from the dealer that there was one more person that had a similar issue.

Did you guys experience any repairs from US to China? How long did it take for you?


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 20, 2021)

Edited: check out my signature


----------



## kmmbd

I always chuckled at those people who had those huge DAP + Amp stacks and a bunch of other things tied together for carrying around everywhere. As luck would have it, I'm now doing something like that on my own and can't let go of it.

The Dunu Zen sounds absolutely grand on the Lotoo PAW 6000 + Cayin C9 combo. The transparency level is off the charts and the Cayin C9 reminds me of a more refined Cayin iHA-6 (one of my most favorite desk amps under $1000). It doesn't have the raw power of the iHA-6 but the refinement is very noticeable with IEMs, and the dynamism on display is very addictive. 

Overall, I've mostly stuck with the class-A circuit (solid state mode). Tried the tube mode but on the Zen and Final Sonorous III it wasn't that good a match. Perhaps with some other IEMs. So far, the Cayin C9 has won me over. Definitely an end-game portable amp. I will compare against the iFi iDSD Signature and the iDSD Diablo in the full review.


----------



## Whitigir

Alright Fam, I have the A02 module listed up as the last piece in my Stack.  If anyone is calling for it, you better do it now before it is gone


----------



## utdeep (Sep 1, 2021)

delete


----------



## 111MilesToGo

I revisited the English Cayin website for the C9 today. Somehow I stumbled over the word ”REDESIGNED“ in caps where the tube timbre circuit is presented, cf. the enclosed image.

I do wonder whether this word has been there from the first day of the C9, and what it means - redesigned as compared to what?

Actually, I just want to make sure that all C9‘s are created equal, i.e. that there has not been a design change at some serial number.


----------



## Whitigir

111MilesToGo said:


> I revisited the English Cayin website for the C9 today. Somehow I stumbled over the word ”REDESIGNED“ in caps where the tube timbre circuit is presented, cf. the enclosed image.
> 
> I do wonder whether this word has been there from the first day of the C9, and what it means - redesigned as compared to what?
> 
> Actually, I just want to make sure that all C9‘s are created equal, i.e. that there has not been a design change at some serial number.


It had always been there, and it probably meant that this redesign is coming from the N8 printed circuit NuTube, this is the successor of the design from N8


----------



## jsawmusic

What you guys think about this stack? Is it too crazy?


----------



## Whitigir

jsawmusic said:


> What you guys think about this stack? Is it too crazy?


Awesomeness!


----------



## jsawmusic

Whitigir said:


> Awesomeness!


what's your setting to connect from DX220 Max to Cayin C9? both gear settings.


----------



## Whitigir

jsawmusic said:


> what's your setting to connect from DX220 Max to Cayin C9? both gear settings.


Low gain-low gain on both pieces, and I use pure gold interconnect.  I just couldn’t deal with the stacking anymore so I slide my C9.  I am hopefully waiting on Titanium Max


----------



## jsawmusic

Whitigir said:


> Low gain-low gain on both pieces, and I use pure gold interconnect.  I just couldn’t deal with the stacking anymore so I slide my C9.  I am hopefully waiting on Titanium Max


Awesome! What's the pure gold interconnect brand and model?


----------



## DaYooper

Just listed my C9 in the for sale thread. Have a look if your interested.

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/cayin-c9-plus.10185/


----------



## jmills8

DaYooper said:


> Just listed my C9 in the for sale thread. Have a look if your interested.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/cayin-c9-plus.10185/


Joy lasted 3 months ?


----------



## Whitigir

jmills8 said:


> Joy lasted 3 months ?


Oh man, you would be surprised at how many toys he has laying around…. Lol!!!


----------



## DaYooper

jmills8 said:


> Joy lasted 3 months ?


The joy continues my friend. Just now I have N6ii-Ti so it's easier to carry around.


----------



## IgeNeLL

DaYooper said:


> The joy continues my friend. Just now I have N6ii-Ti so it's easier to carry around.


Haha, I see some cases when efficiency win.


----------



## brannigan

Bedroom stack. Rocking the lotoo paw6k-> C9 -> AT adx5000


----------



## Nostoi

brannigan said:


> Bedroom stack. Rocking the lotoo paw6k-> C9 -> AT adx5000


Nice. How's the ADX5000 sound with this combo?


----------



## alavenue

Hi! 

Can C9 batteries be bypassed while plugged in with the power cable? How does that work? Is it bad to keep it plugged in 24/7?


----------



## DaYooper

alavenue said:


> Hi!
> 
> Can C9 batteries be bypassed while plugged in with the power cable? How does that work? Is it bad to keep it plugged in 24/7?


Cannot be bypassed. Can be left plugged in I guess. I don't know anyone who has said otherwise anyway. But hey, I never unplug my laptop and it's battery seems just fine. I actually left it unplugged yesterday and it lasted until late today.


----------



## Andykong

alavenue said:


> Hi!
> 
> Can C9 batteries be bypassed while plugged in with the power cable? How does that work? Is it bad to keep it plugged in 24/7?



The C9 batteries cannot be bypassed, it is always active when you connect the C9 to a charger, and you cannot wire a power cord to the circuit bypassing the battery module.  

You cannot plug in the C9 24/7, the protection mechanism of 18650 lithnium battery will power off automatically and enter sleep mode to prevent overcharge.  Be reminded that you must not charge the C9 and the signal source (connected DAP in most cases) at the same time. For more detail, please read our explanation on C9's 18650 power protection feature in *HERE *and *HERE*.


----------



## DaYooper

Ooops, guess I was wrong. Thanks for the clear answer Andykong.


----------



## utdeep

Selling fully loaded C9! 
https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/cayin-c9-fully-loaded.10074/


----------



## Spawn300Z

Well I just received the Cayin C9 today. Just in time for my vacation. Paired it with the Chord Mojo, iPad Pro and Diana V2. It was a very good pairing. I think this is going to be a great portable setup when away and vacationing. 

I have to order the 4.4 balanced adapter for my Diana V2s to really test this baby out. But so far so good.


----------



## alavenue

Hi! 

I know it's not a fair comparison but I'm curious can C9 compete with desktop amps in the 1k-2k range? 

I just ordered one and very excited to have something portable for my nomadic job  
Planning on pairing it with Fiio M15, SMSL M400 dac and might even try my Fiio btr5 haha

Also have a ZMF VC and HE1000V2 on the way to potentially replace my Empyrean and D8000 pro. Curious to see how well the C9 will power the HE1000V2, I'm sure it will do a great job with 2600mw 🤯


----------



## kmmbd

alavenue said:


> I know it's not a fair comparison but I'm curious can C9 compete with desktop amps in the 1k-2k range?


Well, to me, the C9 sounds better than the Cayin iHA-6 and performs at a similar level to the Headamp GSX-Mini. It also pretty much blows every other portable DAC/Amp I've used till date (including WooAudio WA11 Topaz the Chord Hugo 2). I will share more such comparisons in my full review which shall be published later in the day.


----------



## Nostoi

alavenue said:


> Hi!
> 
> I know it's not a fair comparison but I'm curious can C9 compete with desktop amps in the 1k-2k range?
> 
> ...


I'm currently using my C9 as an amp for my Chord Qutest, and it's not too far from the LTA MZ2, which is high praise. I've said it before, but if I only had the C9 as a "desktop amp" (in a hypothetical world where it acted as a desktop amp), then I'd be happy.


----------



## kmmbd (Sep 5, 2021)

I finished my review of the Cayin C9, and it is pretty much one of the, if not _the _best portable/transportable amp out there. It plays along with the big boys like Headamp GSX Mini and the ifi Pro iCAN (in terms of absolute sound quality), and the only amps that I found better than the C9 for headphones are desk ones like Cayin HA-6A and the likes of Accuphase E-380 (that's beyond overkill).

However, the C9 is primarily meant for IEMs and not-so-inefficient headphones. Taking that into account, it becomes pretty much the endgame for me. Even TOTL DAPs that otherwise have excellent sonic ability gets a boost in dynamism and transparency when used in conjunction with the C9. The Lotoo PAW Gold Touch, the A&K SE200, the Sony WM1Z - they all get improve noticeably.

Single dynamic driver IEMs like Dunu Zen/Final A8000 and EST hybrids like UM MEST are the ones that got the largest _boost _in performance. So if you own IEMs like those and want every last bit of performance out of them: Cayin C9 deserves an audition.

The best praise I can heap upon the Cayin C9 is that I looked forward to listening to it every single day during the review period. Very few gears evoke such feelings, and the Cayin C9 is one of those rarities.

The full review can be read here, and I shall post it on head-fi shortly.


----------



## DaYooper

I gotta stop reading this thread or I'll change my mind about selling mine.


----------



## Andykong

kmmbd said:


> I finished my review of the Cayin C9, and it is pretty much one of the, if not _the _best portable/transportable amp out there. It plays along with the big boys like Headamp GSX Mini and the ifi Pro iCAN (in terms of absolute sound quality), and the only amps that I found better than the C9 for headphones are desk ones like Cayin HA-6 and the likes of Accuphase E-380 (that's beyond overkill).
> 
> However, the C9 is primarily meant for IEMs and not-so-inefficient headphones. Taking that into account, it becomes pretty much the endgame for me. Even TOTL DAPs that otherwise have excellent sonic ability gets a boost in dynamism and transparency when used in conjunction with the C9. The Lotoo PAW Gold Touch, the A&K SE200, the Sony WM1Z - they all get improve noticeably.
> 
> ...



Thank you very much for your raving review on C9, this is a very interesting review,  When the reviewer said he was looked forward to listening to it every single day during the review period and  plan on getting one down the road, that's the best endorsement of our product already. 

On your sound analysis section, you have focused on the Solid State timbre of the C9.  That is something I have been looking forward to.  Majority of the reviews are focused on the Nutube timbre, we have always want to add a few review that focused on the Solid State timbre of C9 to balance thing out.  We have put in a lot of effort to improve the solid state timbre when almost all reviews have discard the N8 solid state single end option completely.   

Quick suggestion, you have mentioned HA-6 in the beginning of the review, with the i missing, since we have iHA-6 and HA-6A in our line up, this can be a bit ambitious to readers.


----------



## kmmbd

Andykong said:


> Majority of the reviews are focused on the Nutube timbre, we have always want to add a few review that focused on the Solid State timbre of C9 to balance thing out. We have put in a lot of effort to improve the solid state timbre when almost all reviews have discard the N8 solid state single end option completely.


I guess for a lot of people the novelty of tubes in a miniature form-factor makes the solid state mode seem _less interesting_, and that's understandable. However, I was so smitten by the class-A solid state timbre that I kept missing the transparency in other modes.


Andykong said:


> Quick suggestion, you have mentioned HA-6 in the beginning of the review, with the i missing, since we have iHA-6 and HA-6A in our line up, this can be a bit ambitious to readers.


Yes, it would be the HA-6A, forgot to put the A at the end. I went to audition one recently and that is pretty much one of the desktop _endgame _amps I've tried so far (the other being Accuphase E380). I'd put the HA-6A over the likes of PrimaLuna Evo 400 and the Passlabs HPA-1, and they are great amps in their own right. These are products of entirely different class, price category, and size/power demand but they are the only ones I could think of as truly an _upgrade _over the C9, which speaks volumes.

The comparison against iHA-6 is already in the review, I have one and it was very interesting to A/B them on the course of the review.


----------



## iFi audio

kmmbd said:


> I finished my review of the Cayin C9, and it is pretty much one of the, if not _the _best portable/transportable amp out there. It plays along with the big boys like Headamp GSX Mini and the ifi Pro iCAN (in terms of absolute sound quality), and the only amps that I found better than the C9 for headphones are desk ones like Cayin HA-6A and the likes of Accuphase E-380 (that's beyond overkill).
> 
> However, the C9 is primarily meant for IEMs and not-so-inefficient headphones. Taking that into account, it becomes pretty much the endgame for me. Even TOTL DAPs that otherwise have excellent sonic ability gets a boost in dynamism and transparency when used in conjunction with the C9. The Lotoo PAW Gold Touch, the A&K SE200, the Sony WM1Z - they all get improve noticeably.
> 
> ...



Lovely read, and thanks for some words about one of our own as well


----------



## MusicTeck

Tuesday is the last day of our Labor Day Sale! Don't miss the chance to get your hands on a C9 before our sale ends!

https://shop.musicteck.com/collections/holiday-sale


----------



## alavenue

Hi!

Has anyone paired the HE1000V2 with Cayin C9? Id like to know if they pair well and if it's enough power


----------



## MACyaner

alavenue said:


> Hi!
> 
> Has anyone paired the HE1000V2 with Cayin C9? Id like to know if they pair well and if it's enough power


I recently compared the HE1000V2 with the HE1000SE again at my dealer with my new audio-chain.
And in contrast to the last time, without the C9, this time I liked the V2 better than the SE - so yes, “in my opinion” the C9 has enough power for the V2.

New test - audio-chain: SACDs - Cayin N8 - Cayin C9 - 4.4mm Pentaconn-plug cable - V2 and SE
Test old - audio-chain: SACDs - Questyle QPM - 4.4mm Pentaconn-plug cable - V2 and SE

Back then, I decided on the Utopia after I was allowed to test other high-end headphones at home over a longer period of time. The Utopia is “for me” the best “DAP” headphone.

And now I was amazed how well the C9 can drive the V2


----------



## DaYooper

I had my C9 on the market but since I had no interest expressed I unboxed it and am enjoying it again!!


----------



## Whitigir

DaYooper said:


> I had my C9 on the market but since I had no interest expressed I unboxed it and am enjoying it again!!


feed it DX300Max Titanium for the giggles


----------



## DaYooper

Whitigir said:


> feed it DX300Max Titanium for the giggles


It's most certainly in the plan my friend.


----------



## Auricon (Sep 9, 2021)

Desktop double stacking


----------



## lucasratmundo

The Meze Elite pair very well with the C9 btw: deeper bass, lots of detail.


----------



## Whitigir (Sep 10, 2021)

If anyone here is looking for the C9 Premium quality Interconnect cables.  I have mine for sale .  I built these for the best experiences with Cayin C9, but I no longer have it, and so they just lay around.  I rather free up some funds even at losses to invest in other experiments

Also listing up is Cayin A02 as seen in my picture


----------



## Andykong

I want to draw your attention to two new "potential" sources of Cayin C9.

*HiBy RS6*

A lot of users feel regret that Cayin R01 didn't provide a line out option, making it less ideal when pair with C9.  The HiBy RS6 might be an alternative that fill this need perfectly.  For those who want to check out streaming ready R2R source with C9, you should put HiBy RS6 into your audition list. 





*Lotoo PSW S2*

Correct if I am wrong, this is the first USB/DAC dongle that offer single-ended and balanced line out.  For users want to use their mobile phone as streaming source to C9, the S2 will be a convenient and cost-effective tool to do that.



I didn't have the chance to check them out with C9 so I didn't know more than  you do.  I have provided HeadFi link to both, if you are have any question regarding the DAC and line out capability of these devices, you can drop you question at the related HeadFi thread.


----------



## twister6

Andykong said:


> I want to draw your attention to two new "potential" sources of Cayin C9.
> 
> *HiBy RS6*
> 
> ...



Now, this is interesting. I didn't see LO spec in the initial S2 announcement, or maybe I missed it. I will ping Lotoo to get more details, good catch! But either way, looking forward to test both sources with C9 very soon!


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

alavenue said:


> Hi!
> 
> Has anyone paired the HE1000V2 with Cayin C9? Id like to know if they pair well and if it's enough power


I was just listening to Cayin C9 with HE1000SE and HE1000v1 today.   Plenty of power to drive them.


----------



## IgeNeLL

Andykong said:


> I want to draw your attention to two new "potential" sources of Cayin C9.
> 
> *HiBy RS6*
> 
> ...


Why the 3.5 LO is quite same as 4.4?

Wondering about comparison with R8.


----------



## twister6

IgeNeLL said:


> Why the 3.5 LO is quite same as 4.4?
> 
> Wondering about comparison with R8.



A good question for Lotoo about their S2 design, but keep in mind, this is a just a thumb-drive size usb/dac dongle without its own internal battery/supply after all.


----------



## lucasratmundo (Sep 12, 2021)

I'm selling my C9 with a nice discounted price in the UK, if you're interested in getting one soon. I love it but I haven't been using it much given my current music listening routine, mostly at my desk. I'm also selling my Iliad 4.4mm interconnect. See my signature for a link the classified listing.


----------



## Andykong (Sep 15, 2021)

IgeNeLL said:


> Why the 3.5 LO is quite same as 4.4?
> 
> Wondering about comparison with R8.





twister6 said:


> A good question for Lotoo about their S2 design, but keep in mind, this is a just a thumb-drive size usb/dac dongle without its own internal battery/supply after all.



Very valid point, technically. To keep the line out at 4V, the power consumption will be significantly higher, and that can be a problem when the dongle draw their power from the mobile phone. So keeping the balanced line out at a lower level will probably keep the dongle away from the "accessory uses too much power" warning.


----------



## raylu

did anyone tried the sp2000 plus c9 combo ? I recently just got a like new c9 from a someone and I'm wondering if anyone have the same combo as well.


----------



## John Blackshear

raylu said:


> did anyone tried the sp2000 plus c9 combo ? I recently just got a like new c9 from a someone and I'm wondering if anyone have the same combo as well.


I have that combo. Sounds great!


----------



## lucasratmundo

raylu said:


> did anyone tried the sp2000 plus c9 combo ? I recently just got a like new c9 from a someone and I'm wondering if anyone have the same combo as well.


I used to have this combo which I paired with an Iliad interconnect. Sounds awesome.


----------



## alavenue (Sep 22, 2021)

.


----------



## alavenue (Sep 24, 2021)

What portable dacs with line out would you guys recommend or have worked with C9? I don't want to use a dap, instead just a portable dac between my phone and the C9.


----------



## raylu

guys I recently just got my yatono mini le interconnect cable, which compare to the original c9 cable it's just amazing. darker background great resolution and deeper bass, with my Odin and PW metropolis, ft50 shielding cable it's just amazing. I didn't know the interconnect cable changed the sound that much until now...


----------



## fiascogarcia

alavenue said:


> What portable dacs with line out would you guys recommend or have worked with C9? I don't want to use a dap, instead just a portable dac between my phone and the C9.


I generally use my L&P P6 Pro, but I've seen a fair number of users on this thread using the L&P W2 with very positive results.  Relatively inexpensive and compact.


----------



## IgeNeLL

raylu said:


> guys I recently just got my yatono mini le interconnect cable, which compare to the original c9 cable it's just amazing. darker background great resolution and deeper bass, with my Odin and PW metropolis, ft50 shielding cable it's just amazing. I didn't know the interconnect cable changed the sound that much until now...


Could you try connect and disconnect GND


----------



## searchingtom

lumdicks said:


> I found the occasional noise from some pairing improved a lot after using the rack to physically separate the source and the AMP.


I just purchased a C9 and love it.  Might you tell me where you purchased the mini audio rack that you have it on ?  Thanks !!!


----------



## lumdicks

searchingtom said:


> I just purchased a C9 and love it.  Might you tell me where you purchased the mini audio rack that you have it on ?  Thanks !!!


I got it from Amazon Japan:

https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B07NDRD2PT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## searchingtom

Thank you !


----------



## NJoyzAudio

searchingtom said:


> I just purchased a C9 and love it.  Might you tell me where you purchased the mini audio rack that you have it on ?  Thanks !!!


Searchingtom

APOS Audio out of San Jose CA also has it but it ships from China.  Took about 5 days to get it.
But I did not have to worry about Yen to $ conversion and such.
Just remember to uncheck the email me info box if you do not want to get emails weekly about specials…

This Little rack works well with the C9 and accessories you’ll probably want to have. (I have several different IC cables that I’m trialing as it makes a huge difference in one of the lower tiers - once done burning in the different cables will be posting some thoughts here)
I lean my PAW6K DAP against the rack since it does Preamp line out and it allows me to adjust the volume via its touch panel when standing up, as well as read the screen easily, yet still reach the C9’s controls to choose amp and timbre choices.  Well worth the cost.  Highly recommended item!


----------



## searchingtom

Thank you NJoyzAudio !


----------



## jwbrent

searchingtom said:


> Thank you NJoyzAudio !



You get a like for your picture of Alan Watts, one of my favorite philosophers. 👍


----------



## jwbrent

John Blackshear said:


> I have that combo. Sounds great!



My last two AK daps had stainless steel chassises, and I found this adds a bit of midrange energy to the sound. I’m going to buy a C9 during the holiday sales, but I was wondering what would you say is the defining change with your AK dap and the C9. Also, do you have a favorite setting(s) for sound?


----------



## jwbrent (Oct 4, 2021)

Hi guys,

So I’ve decided to buy a C9 during the holidays to take advantage of sale pricing, but before I do, are there any irregularities in the fit and finish, e.g., (wiggly volume knob) or operation that I should know about? I’ve never owned a Cayin product before although I’m familiar with the brand, and fit and finish is extremely important to me. The C9 looks nicely made, and I like the symmetrical layout of its front panel, and of course, I’m excited to hear the Nutubes on my setup.

Thanks for any comments!


----------



## DaYooper

No worries sir, just get one.


----------



## searchingtom

The C9 is beautifully made.  I have it displayed as the star in my portable set up !


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Finally got my Van Nuys case for my C9.   It's wonderful.   Thanks to @masahito24@chart for helping me with the order.   I met with him yesterday to pick up my case and he has some outrageous gear.

I want to see if I can actually listen to it in the case.   I recall a discussion about HIBY Link.   Anyone have instructions on how to set up it so that I can control my DX300 with my iPhone or Apple watch?


----------



## armstrj2

Hey folks, would be good if I could some info/advice from you regarding the C9.

I recently purchased the C9 and I am pairing it with a DX312.

I have read back through the whole thread and noted in a few places where people mentioned that when using the Amp11 the gain should be set to low to prevent damage to the DX300. 

Considering the Amp12 has a dedicated line out is the recommendation the same? 

I have tried testing at different gains and to my ears, there is a noticeable difference to the sound signature when using low gain vs high with the AMP12, even when you increase the output of the C9 to compensate for the lower gain input.

Any input on what I should or shouldn't be doing here for the safety of the gear would be welcome. If it should be low gain then I'll leave it there and move on with that. Thanks.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

armstrj2 said:


> Hey folks, would be good if I could some info/advice from you regarding the C9.
> 
> I recently purchased the C9 and I am pairing it with a DX312.
> 
> ...


I have DX312 and use it to pair with C9.    Plug the interconnect to the line out 4.4mm port (left side) and 4.4mm input for the C9.    DX300 should be MAX volume.

This shouldn't effect the PO output on your DX300.  So, if you want to directly connect to it with your IEMs or headphones, you don't need to worry about blowing out your ears. But, since i have been burned many times, I almost always check gain before plugging in out of habit.

This is a glorious pairing, especially with full sized headphones.


----------



## armstrj2

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I have DX312 and use it to pair with C9.    Plug the interconnect to the line out 4.4mm port (left side) and 4.4mm input for the C9.    DX300 should be MAX volume.
> 
> This shouldn't effect the PO output on your DX300.  So, if you want to directly connect to it with your IEMs or headphones, you don't need to worry about blowing out your ears. But, since i have been burned many times, I almost always check gain before plugging in out of habit.
> 
> This is a glorious pairing, especially with full sized headphones.


Hey, thanks for the reply. What I was asking was about what gain setting the DX312 should be set to when connected to the C9? From what I can gather by reading back through the thread it seems that the DX312 outputs too high voltage in high gain so it can cause damage. Sometimes too many options is a bad thing and I don't want to damage anything through a lack of familiarity with the unit. 

Really enjoying the C9 so far. Amazing the difference an amp can make.


----------



## Auricon

Ja, it’s fine and I keep keep my DX312 gain output either medium or low to C9 and use avoid high per previous recommendations.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

armstrj2 said:


> Hey, thanks for the reply. What I was asking was about what gain setting the DX312 should be set to when connected to the C9? From what I can gather by reading back through the thread it seems that the DX312 outputs too high voltage in high gain so it can cause damage. Sometimes too many options is a bad thing and I don't want to damage anything through a lack of familiarity with the unit.
> 
> Really enjoying the C9 so far. Amazing the difference an amp can make.


I don't have any trouble with the DX300 at max gain.    I haven't followed this thread that closely.  What does Andy Kong say?


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Oct 4, 2021)

Auricon said:


> Ja, it’s fine and I keep keep my DX312 gain output either medium or low to C9 and use avoid high per previous recommendations.


Oh, I see.   H, M or L gain setting.   Why would LO output voltage which is meant to be fixed vary with PO gain setting?   Unless you are plugging your C9 into your PO port, shouldn't line out voltage remain the same?

I have my DX300 at medium gain unless I am driving full sized headphones which I do a lot since it can drive them well.


----------



## armstrj2

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I don't have any trouble with the DX300 at max gain.    I haven't followed this thread that closely.  What does Andy Kong say?


There were a lot comments back when people were using the AMP11 to say not to use high gain. The recommendation was to use low gain on the DX311 and high gain on the C9 if required. I presume that is the same with AMP12 as it is even more powerful but I just wanted to get people's input as it's an area I know little about.


----------



## armstrj2

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Oh, I see.   H, M or L gain setting.   Why would LO output voltage which is meant to be fixed vary with PO gain setting?   Unless you are plugging your C9 into your PO port, shouldn't line out voltage remain the same?
> 
> I have my DX300 at medium gain unless I am driving full sized headphones which I do a lot since it can drive them well.


You can change the gain for LO and PO.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Oct 4, 2021)

armstrj2 said:


> You can change the gain for LO and PO.


I only have one gain setting for my AMP12.

Are you talking about AMP11?   I think we discussed this before.   IIFC, the AMP11 has 2 gain settings.    TBH, the AMP11 Line out feature sucks.   I stopped using it when I moved to AMP12.


----------



## armstrj2

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I only have one gain setting for my AMP12.
> 
> Are you talking about AMP11?   I think we discussed this before.   IIFC, the AMP11 has 2 gain settings.    TBH, the AMP11 Line out feature sucks.   I stopped using it when I moved to AMP12.


That's odd. I have the H,M,L for both. Different Firmware maybe? (using AMP12)


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

armstrj2 said:


> That's odd. I have the H,M,L for both. Different Firmware maybe? (using AMP12)


Why would a Line out port need a gain setting?


----------



## armstrj2

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Why would a Line out port need a gain setting?


I can't answer that as I don't know or understand the inner workings of the AMP12 but the option is there. I can only guess it is to allow you to decrease the output for circumstances where the full output would be too much for what you are connecting to.


----------



## twister6 (Oct 4, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Why would a Line out port need a gain setting?



That's how it is by design in DX300, Gain changes the output voltage level of both LO and PO.  You probably haven't noticed because you have it in Medium gain.  With LO connected to C9, try switching to Low gain, and you will hear a drop in volume level.

Following was the issue.  DX300 default amp11 card didn't have a dedicated LO and its pseudo LO output has a spec of 7.1Vrms (in BAL, assuming in High Gain) which is a bit too high, and there was someone who damaged their C9 due to high voltage input from DX300 amp11 card.  When you switch gain to med or low, 7.1Vrms voltage will drop, making it "safer" for C9 input.  Amp12 card has a dedicated clean LO with a max output voltage of 4.1Vrms (in BAL, assuming in High Gain).  For C9 this is a more ideal input voltage.

So, when using DX300 with amp11 and balanced LO to C9, better use low or med gain.  When using amp12 card and C9, LO and high gain are OK.

And, in DX300 MAX, the dedicated LO also has max output voltage of 4.4Vrms (in high gain), which is OK as well when connected to C9.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

twister6 said:


> That's how it is by design in DX300, Gain changes the output voltage level of both LO and PO.  You probably haven't noticed because you have it in Medium gain.  With LO connected to C9, try switching to Low gain, and you will hear a drop in volume level.
> 
> Following was the issue.  DX300 default amp11 card didn't have a dedicated LO and its pseudo LO output has a spec of 7.1Vrms (in BAL, assuming in High Gain) which is a bit too high, and there was someone who damaged their C9 due to high voltage input from DX300 amp11 card.  When you switch gain to med or low, 7.1Vrms voltage will drop, making it "safer" for C9 input.  Amp12 card has a dedicated clean LO with a max output voltage of 4.1Vrms (in BAL, assuming in High Gain).  For C9 this is a more ideal input voltage.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the clarification.  This is helpful.


----------



## ssriram2791

twister6 said:


> That's how it is by design in DX300, Gain changes the output voltage level of both LO and PO.  You probably haven't noticed because you have it in Medium gain.  With LO connected to C9, try switching to Low gain, and you will hear a drop in volume level.
> 
> Following was the issue.  DX300 default amp11 card didn't have a dedicated LO and its pseudo LO output has a spec of 7.1Vrms (in BAL, assuming in High Gain) which is a bit too high, and there was someone who damaged their C9 due to high voltage input from DX300 amp11 card.  When you switch gain to med or low, 7.1Vrms voltage will drop, making it "safer" for C9 input.  Amp12 card has a dedicated clean LO with a max output voltage of 4.1Vrms (in BAL, assuming in High Gain).  For C9 this is a more ideal input voltage.
> 
> ...


Is DX300 AMP11 the only DAP that has Pseudo Line out with such high voltage output ? Most of the DAPs I have owned or read about have with balanced lineout voltage to be less than 4.5 Volts. Clarification on this would be much appreciated !


----------



## armstrj2

twister6 said:


> That's how it is by design in DX300, Gain changes the output voltage level of both LO and PO.  You probably haven't noticed because you have it in Medium gain.  With LO connected to C9, try switching to Low gain, and you will hear a drop in volume level.
> 
> Following was the issue.  DX300 default amp11 card didn't have a dedicated LO and its pseudo LO output has a spec of 7.1Vrms (in BAL, assuming in High Gain) which is a bit too high, and there was someone who damaged their C9 due to high voltage input from DX300 amp11 card.  When you switch gain to med or low, 7.1Vrms voltage will drop, making it "safer" for C9 input.  Amp12 card has a dedicated clean LO with a max output voltage of 4.1Vrms (in BAL, assuming in High Gain).  For C9 this is a more ideal input voltage.
> 
> ...


Fantastic. That's exactly the info I was looking for. Probably should have asked first. It would have saved me reading through 300 pages 😂 but some great info in there. Thanks


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

armstrj2 said:


> Fantastic. That's exactly the info I was looking for. Probably should have asked first. It would have saved me reading through 300 pages 😂 but some great info in there. Thanks


Bottom line is that using AMP12, there should be no problem with whatever gain setting you use.

To me, this says that AMP11 was poorly designed to support Line Out.    Not surprising since it sucks.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

I am travelling again this week and I brought my DX300 and C9 with my new Van Nuys case.    I remembered that Spotify Connect allows me to control playback on different devices.  So, I loaded Spotify on my DX300 and now I can control music from either my Apple Watch or iPhone.   Totally cool.   Just need Spotify to finally launch Spotify Hiifi and I will be all set.


----------



## twister6

twister6 said:


> That's how it is by design in DX300, Gain changes the output voltage level of both LO and PO.  You probably haven't noticed because you have it in Medium gain.  With LO connected to C9, try switching to Low gain, and you will hear a drop in volume level.
> 
> Following was the issue.  DX300 default amp11 card didn't have a dedicated LO and its pseudo LO output has a spec of 7.1Vrms (in BAL, assuming in High Gain) which is a bit too high, and there was someone who damaged their C9 due to high voltage input from DX300 amp11 card.  When you switch gain to med or low, 7.1Vrms voltage will drop, making it "safer" for C9 input.  Amp12 card has a dedicated clean LO with a max output voltage of 4.1Vrms (in BAL, assuming in High Gain).  For C9 this is a more ideal input voltage.
> 
> ...



I have to clarify this, actually in high gain LO with DX300/amp11 and C9, amp11 card was damaged, not C9.  And I remember the person damaged amp11, replaced it with another amp11 and damaged it again.  C9 was OK.


----------



## Andykong

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Finally got my Van Nuys case for my C9.   It's wonderful.   Thanks to @masahito24@chart for helping me with the order.   I met with him yesterday to pick up my case and he has some outrageous gear.
> 
> I want to see if I can actually listen to it in the case.   I recall a discussion about HIBY Link.   Anyone have instructions on how to set up it so that I can control my DX300 with my iPhone or Apple watch?



Can you control your DX300 with HiByLink on y our iphone?  I was under the impression that HiByLink only compatible wiht HiBy based soluton.


----------



## Andykong

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I don't have any trouble with the DX300 at max gain.    I haven't followed this thread that closely.  What does Andy Kong say?



Can't comment on the design of DX300. Forum rules.  


twister6 said:


> That's how it is by design in DX300, Gain changes the output voltage level of both LO and PO.  You probably haven't noticed because you have it in Medium gain.  With LO connected to C9, try switching to Low gain, and you will hear a drop in volume level.
> 
> Following was the issue.  DX300 default amp11 card didn't have a dedicated LO and its pseudo LO output has a spec of 7.1Vrms (in BAL, assuming in High Gain) which is a bit too high, and there was someone who damaged their C9 due to high voltage input from DX300 amp11 card.  When you switch gain to med or low, 7.1Vrms voltage will drop, making it "safer" for C9 input.  Amp12 card has a dedicated clean LO with a max output voltage of 4.1Vrms (in BAL, assuming in High Gain).  For C9 this is a more ideal input voltage.
> 
> ...





twister6 said:


> I have to clarify this, actually in high gain LO with DX300/amp11 and C9, amp11 card was damaged, not C9.  And I remember the person damaged amp11, replaced it with another amp11 and damaged it again.  C9 was OK.


Thank you Alex for your recap and explanation.   I can only advice from C9 perspective.  

The C9 is designed to accept 4.4mm (BAL) Line level input at around 4V.  If we used E02 Audio Motherboard as reference, the recommended setting is High LO level in E02






Unfortunately, there is no specific rules or guideline on output level from DAP line out.  If a DAP decided to offer output level at High LO level = 6V, Mid LO level = 4V, Low LO level - 2V, that is perfectly legitimate.  Therefore the correct approach is NOT to make a choice based on verbal description such as High or Mid or Low level.  The most sensible approach is to find out the output level behind the High, Mid and Low description.  

Once you find out the rated output level, just start with the setting that is closest to 4V.  established your base line, then you can try different line out level setting for exploration.  

How far can be deviated from the 4V line out level recommendation?

If we are talking about 10% different (i.e., 3.6V to 4.4V), that is perfectly alright.
If we are talking about 20%, 30% different (i.e., 2.8V to 5.2V), that is still within the normal operation range of C9.
If we are talking about 50% different (i.e, upto 6V), and I still claim that we are still in perfectly good condition, don't you think this is a bit non-precise for high fidelity application?  Technically this is still safe, don't  think anything will blow up, but if there is other choice that is closer to the designed value, maybe we should go for that instead.

For the record, Amp 11 High Line Out level delivers 7.1V at full volume, C9 didn't have much problem to pair with that.  At lease one user said this combo/setting sounds very good.  Unfortunately, the Amp 11 failed twice.  Several experienced users explained that an amplifier cannot damaged upstream equipment because there is no feedback signal path, so there is no way C9 can cause any damage to Amp 11, but we still go blamed in that instance.


----------



## Spawn300Z

On the. Cruise with my portable setup.


----------



## jwbrent

Spawn300Z said:


> On the. Cruise with my portable setup.



There’s a rumor that Chord is releasing the successor to the Mojo early next year, and that’s what I plan to use with my C9 after I buy it. I liked the Mojo, I liked it better than the Hugo I also had.

We are of the same mind, gotta have music on our travels. 👍


----------



## Spawn300Z (Oct 11, 2021)

jwbrent said:


> There’s a rumor that Chord is releasing the successor to the Mojo early next year, and that’s what I plan to use with my C9 after I buy it. I liked the Mojo, I liked it better than the Hugo I also had.
> 
> We are of the same mind, gotta have music on our travels. 👍


Yes, I heard. That’s what I’m waiting for. I have access to a great deal on Hugo 2. But waiting on the Mojo 2 1st


----------



## twister6

jwbrent said:


> There’s a rumor that Chord is releasing the successor to the Mojo early next year, and that’s what I plan to use with my C9 after I buy it. I liked the Mojo, I liked it better than the Hugo I also had.
> 
> We are of the same mind, gotta have music on our travels. 👍



or, get the upcoming N8ii flagship DAP which going to have dual NuTube, similar to C9.  Instead of carrying 3 separate devices, _source_, _usb dac_, _portable amp_, you can carry just one DAP.


----------



## jwbrent

twister6 said:


> or, get the upcoming N8ii flagship DAP which going to have dual NuTube, similar to C9.  Instead of carrying 3 separate devices, _source_, _usb dac_, _portable amp_, you can carry just one DAP.



Let’s see what the N8ii looks like, its predecessor was a bit garish for my taste. I agree, though, it certainly would simplify things which I like a lot.


----------



## Kiats

jwbrent said:


> Let’s see what the N8ii looks like, its predecessor was a bit garish for my taste. I agree, though, it certainly would simplify things which I like a lot.


Agree. The UI and responsiveness needs to step up since it’s been about 3 years since the original N8 came out.


----------



## ThanatosVI

twister6 said:


> or, get the upcoming N8ii flagship DAP which going to have dual NuTube, similar to C9.  Instead of carrying 3 separate devices, _source_, _usb dac_, _portable amp_, you can carry just one DAP.


Are there announcements already?
Which DAC does it use?


----------



## twister6

ThanatosVI said:


> Are there announcements already?
> Which DAC does it use?



Don't think that info was shared yet, but as I mentioned in Nic's thread, when Cayin adds "ii" suffix, it usually means... like in N6ii, instead of N3pro and N8. So, let's hope they will follow the same logic to answer what interface/OS to expect


----------



## ThanatosVI

twister6 said:


> Don't think that info was shared yet, but as I mentioned in Nic's thread, when Cayin adds "ii" suffix, it usually means... like in N6ii, instead of N3pro and N8. So, let's hope they will follow the same logic to answer what interface/OS to expect


Cayin R2R with Nutube... RIP my wallet.


----------



## twister6

ThanatosVI said:


> Cayin R2R with Nutube... RIP my wallet.



Wishful thinking or confirmed rumors?


----------



## jwbrent

Since R2R daps are the soup de jour these days at the high end, I would be surprised if the N8ii doesn’t employ this design. We’ll see. ✌️


----------



## ThanatosVI

twister6 said:


> Wishful thinking or confirmed rumors?


Wishfull thinking.
However they have an incredibly successful R2R Module for the N6ii and a new R2R dongle DAC.

It seems to be their answer to the AKM shortage.


----------



## xand

armstrj2 said:


> Hey folks, would be good if I could some info/advice from you regarding the C9.
> 
> I recently purchased the C9 and I am pairing it with a DX312.
> 
> ...



You should use High gain with a DX312.

The AMP 12 LO specification is a max 4.1v:





via: https://ibasso.com/product/amp12/


----------



## qua2k

Curious if anyone has paired the C9 with the LPGT and have any thoughts? Thinking this may be my portable/desktop/et al end game. Heard good things with the
PAW6000.

Thanks.


----------



## Andykong

xand said:


> You should use High gain with a DX312.
> 
> The AMP 12 LO specification is a max 4.1v:
> 
> ...



Is there another version stated that the MAXIMUM rated output level is 4.1Vrms?  It didn't stated MAX output voltage level in your link, nor described that the rated output level of 4.1Vrms is achieved at Low gain or high gain.


----------



## Andykong

jwbrent said:


> Since R2R daps are the soup de jour these days at the high end, I would be surprised if the N8ii doesn’t employ this design. We’ll see. ✌️



As per to my previous post on this subject (*HERE*), I have stated that the "N8ii is designed around a pair of current mode DAC chipset that we have never used before. To the best of our knowledge, this DAC chipset has never been used by any portable DAP so far."  Clearly N8ii is not R-2R based when I said we used dual DAC chipset in the new player.


----------



## jwbrent

Andykong said:


> As per to my previous post on this subject (*HERE*), I have stated that the "N8ii is designed around a pair of current mode DAC chipset that we have never used before. To the best of our knowledge, this DAC chipset has never been used by any portable DAP so far."  Clearly N8ii is not R-2R based when I said we used dual DAC chipset in the new player.



Thank you for the clarification. ✌️


----------



## xand

Andykong said:


> Is there another version stated that the MAXIMUM rated output level is 4.1Vrms?  It didn't stated MAX output voltage level in your link, nor described that the rated output level of 4.1Vrms is achieved at Low gain or high gain.



Well, 8.3 VRMS for the PO is also maximum, no?


----------



## Andykong

xand said:


> Well, 8.3 VRMS for the PO is also maximum, no?



I don't know, it didn't specify.


----------



## Ichos

This C9 class A tube mode is so addicting, can't stop listening to it...
I have been neglecting everything else in my stash!


----------



## Ichos

Today I have switched to Class A ss and Elite to the alcantara pads.


Thrilling...


----------



## NJoyzAudio (Oct 16, 2021)

Before I start want to pass on "Thank You's" to the early contributors to this thread and especially to Andy Kong for all of his info and transparency of what is the C9, all of you have posted great info and insights that made me want to go and buy one and now I am just enjoying the c9 thoroughly!  Also want to pass on Thank You's to Christian at PlusSound Audio and Eric Chong at Eletech for their input and advise for upgraded interconnects which have made a difference and the subject of my post today.

I know the topic of cables and the associated costs have launched many religious wars here on Head-Fi.  Many consider it snake oil, but I view cables as the "final" tuning that can be done to IEM's or even source devices.  IF the sound signature you are seeking is close with the HW you've purchased, and your already using high bit rate MP3's or preferably FLAC files, then eeking out that last bit of enjoyment can be found in changing cables.  Will it convert HW that is overly dark or bright into the perfect system, NO.  but if it is close, and you like what your HW is presenting to you, it makes sense to save your investment in said HW and tweak on it with cables, and this is my opinion and a philosophy I follow.
I don't consider myself a reviewer, just someone who enjoys audio and has been around the block a few times, and likes to share info.  Please understand what I write below is IMO and that YMMV.
Also all of these cables were purchased, nothing was provided to me by any of the OEM's mentioned, nor am I getting anything in return for what I am writing below.
I'm just another audio enthusiast like most everyone else here at Head-fi.

I just want to share info today about interconnects and how I think it affects the quality/enjoyment of the sound as while early on there were a few posts about interconnects making a difference, haven't seen more on the topic
I've allowed the C9 to have well over the 50+ hours of  burn in as recommended by many on this thread, as well as on the various IC's I've procured or commissioned.
As "Ichos" mentions above, the Class "A" / Tube Timbre is so addicting and easy to listen to that for all of the listening/testing I did for the interconnects, I used the Tube Timbre and mostly Class A amplification, but some Class AB amplification on the Cayin C9 for critical back to back listening,  I did do some work with the Solid State Amplification but the changes in sound were much more pronounced between the interconncets that for this write up, will stick to notes I made for Tube/Class A.

Source was my Lotoo PAW 6000 in variable line out mode, and the C9 in Pre Input/Pure Amplification Mode bypass all of the Cayin's preamp sections.
This combination is REALLY good, and to me is a much fuller sound than any other sources I borrowed or tired during the several months I have taken to get to this write up!
This included even the Cayin N6ii with a A02 Module.  The N6ii/A02 preout combo was close, but for my tastes I preferred the PAW6K/C9 combo with the PAW6K being a true preamp contolling the volume. The sound was just clear, and with the C9 in Pure Amp/tube/class A mode very analog, full, rich and warm regardless of genre of music! - Again IMO
I also only listened to the 4.4mm Balanced input for the most part.  While the Single Ended 3.5m was nice, the Balanced input seem to have a wider soundstage and with some cables a deeper front to back presence.  Again just my preference as this is not meant to be an end all be all write up.
IEM used were my new (but well over 200 hours of time on them) JH Audio Jolene's (dynamic bass and low mids drivers and BA high mids and high for a total of 12 drivers per side) going through a Palladium Plated Copper/Silver Hybrid cable
Source material was all mostly FLAC recordings which included original Master Recording modern Jazz, Older Rock including many with lots of 3 part harmony, Standards Jazz and Classical/full Orchestra with some Acid Jazz Club music as source material.

I'm going to score the interconnect cables discussed below on a 1-10 scale
Also I borrowed or tired as many different interconnects I could use, but will concentrate on 4 for this write up and may briefly mention the few that I did not own as I could not provide full burn in time/knew how burn in they had, and well for me did not measure up to the 4 interconnects I'm going to concentrate on below

Cayin's provided 8 wire Copper Interconnect with the C9. (Approx $45 by itself from Cayin/Cayin resellers)
Using the Stock Copper 8 wire cable that Cayin provided is the baseline for the 4 interconnects since most will have this as their primary cable.
The cable build is of great quality and much better than cables often provided by other OEM's.
It was good, nice balanced sound but highs seemed to be a little veiled and sub bass was a little muddy
Very narrow soundstage, sound is in my head and not extending out
I'd give the Cayin stock cable a 4+/5 out of 10
Most will be able to live with this interconnect and be happy not spending more, but others will blame the C9 for not sounding as good as they expected, and here is where changing out the interconnect should be explored.
But let me say this.
It was better than some less expensive "plastic" throw in or supposed OCC copper or SPC 4.4mm balanced cables  as well as some of the really inexpensive interconnects on Amazon or similar stores in the $35-$75 range that are supposed to be SPC (but not sure as it sure did not sound like it) that others let me try who were using for a variety of other 4.4mm input amps/dac-amps they were using.  I'd give these cables a 1-3 at tops.
So yes the Cayin is much better then inexpensive cables that are out there


Plus Sound X8, 8 wire custom interconnect using OCC Silver Platted Copper and OCC Silver+Gold alloy wires and PlusSound Rhodium Platted 4.4mm TRRRS termination (Approx $350-400 depending on options chosen and shipping)
Speaking with Christian at PlusSound and wanting to take baby steps, he and I settled on a the combination above since he felt a straight copper or even SPC 8 wire probably would not give me much more than the stock Cayin cable. Adding the Silver + Gold alloy wires to the SPC would help with extending the highs and still keep the bass signature I was hearing
This cable proved to be much better than the stock Cayin cable.  It had an greater quantity of bass and was less muddy to my ears, more clarity in the mids, highs much better and little more extended, but still seem to be a slight veil on them
Sound stage is still in my head but there was MUCH more space between instruments and vocals.
I give this combo a solid "6" as slightly better than the stock cable but there can be more done to clear the highs and add more depth and width to the sound

Also as a note: I also had this cable made in a 12" length
Even though the Lotoo PAW6K has a setting to flip the screen 180' allowing the use of a short interconnect vs the input locations, having the little extra length allowed me more flexibility, without having to flip the UI.  I did not perceive any loss of SQ for the extra 6" in length but gained much more usability and was not putting any extra stain on the connectors. Anyone not using a DAP or Source that allows you to move the interface getting a 12" cable is highly recommended for the minimal cost change.
As to using the Rhodium Platted terminations.  There has been many write ups on various pages here on Head-Fi (in The Effect Audio Thread and several others) that over gold or even straight copper TRRS/TRRRS plugs, the Rhodium platted plugs (Like PlusSounds, Effect Audio's, Eidolic or Furutech's) seem to add a little more smoothness to the sound.  Also these plugs seem to wear much better than other platings I've tried, just as another bonus.


Eletech Iliad 4 wire 4.4mm Interconnect (Combination of Silver+gold Alloy, Pure Silver and Palladium Platted Silver 24 AWG wires) $329 + Shipping from Singapore)
Vs the SPC+/Silver+Gold cable mentioned above with the Iliad it started to move the sound out of my head, and started to give me better front to back (not completely but more so than the previous 2 cables which were definitely still in my head)
The veil on the highs are gone. Some nice Sub Bass rumble now there. Highs are nice and smooth but that might be because the mid highs are now clear, but I did notice with the Iliad there was a little less extension to the highs that the PlusSound Cable above
In general the cable is warm, inviting and VERY easy to listen to. the Iliad initially sound smoother, as it’s a little more “Mid Forward”
This interconnect has decent bass control and extension into the sub bass, and the highs are smooth and easy to listen to.
Many will stop here as going anywhere else will be a serious investment of money
I think the Iliad because of its use of larger diameter of the wires (24AWG vs 26 AWG) it does NOT loose anything to an 8 wire.
I was contemplating buying one of Eletech's 6 wire Iliad Interconnects (True ground on 2 wires) but seeing some of the comments early on in this C9 thread, saved the money and just went with the 4 wire.
The Iliad is a 8 (initially thought a “9” but looking to do  a 12" wire it led me to the interconnect below that well blew the Iliad away, leaving it with an 8 rating)

But having tried a 12" interconnect and enjoying the benefits, I reached out to Eric about the cost of doing a 12" interconnect, and well given COVID and I guess some other projects they are backed up on, it just did not come to be, which led me to try another combination below


PlusSound X8, 8 wire custom 4.4mm interconnect using 4 wires of their Tri-Silver (Gold Platted Silver, Pure Silver, Palladium Platted Silver) and 4 wires of their Palladium Platted Hybrid (Palladium Platted Copper + Palladium Platted Silver) ($900-1200 depending on options and shipping)
Vs. the Iliad it has an clear cleaner soundstage that is now completely outside of my head
The effect on the sound for this cable I feel like I’m just sitting on stage as a guest of the performers. The Iliad I’m in the first 5 rows but not onstage,
Definitely extension on the highs that are clear and never goes to sibliance/shrill, and the sub bass now has an authoritative rumble, deep and clear
I think what I heard initially is the Iliad sounds smoother, but when you really start listening the clarity and pinpoint accuracy of this hybrid is what makes it a little more accurate but in turn maybe a little more "clinical" vs the Iliad, hence the difference in sound, but hands down a MUCH wider and deeper soundstage
There is quite a bit more Bass/Sub bass, and almost subwoofer like. Compared to the Iliad, NO CONTEST, there is just MUCH MORE Bass, and its tighter and clearer.
The mids are definitely less upfront/in your face than the Iliad, and I think the extra Mids is what makes the Iliad initially sound smoother.
But as I started listening for specific items, this Hybrid PPH/Tri-Silver is MUCH cleaner in the mids, much sharper. I can pinpoint specific sounds where in the Iliad they sometimes just get jumbled to the back. And like the first PlusSound cable above, just more air between/amongst the instruments and vocals.
The highs again are much clearer and much more focused and are really fun to listen to
Soundstage is JUST incredible. At least 1.5 to 2X wider than the Iliad left to right. Front to back HANDS DOWN much better.
The clarity I’m hearing is more “live sound” than a recording, I expect this will be the right investment for the Cayin C9 to reach fill potential
I give this a 9+ rating.  Is there room for improvement?  Well there always is so I've yet to hear what I think is a 10

It’s just the price that I’d say will make people pause with this interconnect, and what feeds the religious wars about cables.
If the Iliad is 90% there, will someone want to pay the extra to get to 100%? because of the costs I'll be selling the Iliad and the first PlusSound Cable to try and recover some investment
I think for some if they get a chance to listen to it, some will pull the trigger. but for most, nope, they can't justify the ROI.  Again this is all In My Opinion (IMO) and  Your Milage May Vary (YMMV)

the only other cable I was able to borrow but I do not know how much burn in time it had so did not want to give a full write up, is the iFi 4.4mm Interconnect
Its more expensive than the cheaper $25-45 interconncets out there, but it is listed as pure OCC- silver cable.
It is reasonably priced (less than $90 on Amazon in the US) but again since I did not know if the cable has burned in I don't want to give it a rating but during my time with it, had nice bass, a little more controlled, and decent mids, but there seem to be a peak in the Mid highs and again in the highs that on some tracks went to being sibilant and caused me to cringe a little.  I honestly think this cable will sound good with burn in time/brain burn in, but for me having the other cables on hand, I just stopped listening to it.

For the Cayin C9 reviews if memory serves me correctly only Twister 6 did a small review within his review of the C9 about interconnects and how it influenced the end sound. (He used a Eletech Iliad, a Romy Audio Encryption Series Sensation IC Cable (Talk about a price heart attack) and DHC Silver)

If you've made it this far, thanks for reading and again this is what I hear and is just my opinion, but I hope it helps those who like their Cayin C9 but thought there should be more.  There can be with a little time and investment.  I'm thoroughly enjoying my investments and for now just sitting back and enjoying the sound

Pictures of the 4 interconnects


----------



## ssriram2791

NJoyzAudio said:


> Before I start want to pass on "Thank You's" to the early contributors to this thread and especially to Andy Kong for all of his info and transparency of what is the C9, all of you have posted great info and insights that made me want to go and buy one and now I am just enjoying the c9 thoroughly!  Also want to pass on Thank You's to Christian at PlusSound Audio and Eric Chong at Eletech for their input and advise for upgraded interconnects which have made a difference and the subject of my post today.
> 
> I know the topic of cables and the associated costs have launched many religious wars here on Head-Fi.  Many consider it snake oil, but I view cables as the "final" tuning that can be done to IEM's or even source devices.  IF the sound signature you are seeking is close with the HW you've purchased, and your already using high bit rate MP3's or preferably FLAC files, then eeking out that last bit of enjoyment can be found in changing cables.  Will it convert HW that is overly dark or bright into the perfect system, NO.  but if it is close, and you like what your HW is presenting to you, it makes sense to save your investment in said HW and tweak on it with cables, and this is my opinion and a philosophy I follow.
> I don't consider myself a reviewer, just someone who enjoys audio and has been around the block a few times, and likes to share info.  Please understand what I write below is IMO and that YMMV.
> ...


I enjoyed reading this thread. I am sure there is always a considerable number of consumers to pay nearly the price of the amplifier for an interconnect cable to reach 100% sound quality (or whatever according to the standards set by the consumers themselves). Not debating this at all. 

Just to make one clarification about the Eletech Illiad interconnect cable. The one you tested is not the one I think @twister6 tested. 

Here is an excerpt from his website

*Cayin to Eletech Iliad 6W* – the improvement is also noticeable with sound having more air and sparkle, bass deeper, but overall tonality was still natural and organic.  One interesting observation which I confirmed multiple times is that in addition to improvement in width I also hear some improvement in depth.  This is the only interconnect cable I have with a proper wiring that has both signal pairs and GND connected between the plugs.

*The one he discussed in the review costs $449*, not $329. The cost increase has a lot to do with grounding I believe and is a different interconnect by itself.

Cayin C9 enhances/expands good qualities of the source that is connected to.  LOTOO PAW 6000 is a TOTL DAP in terms of its sheer transparency/resolution and connecting it to C9 through Preamp-input only makes the sound become even more wonderful,joyful, etc. you know the adjectives  . 

Kudos to @Andykong and his team at Cayin for coming up with one of the best portable tube/SS hybrid amplifier in the market. The combinations of Pre/Line outs, Class A/AB, Tube/SS make this one stop shop for whatever way you like to listen to music. 

They somehow seem to not get enough credit for their solid state mode of amplification (Cayin N8 4.4 mm case in point) and even in the case of C9. It is awesome and if not better than Tube itself.


----------



## NJoyzAudio

ssriram2791 said:


> I enjoyed reading this thread. I am sure there is always a considerable number of consumers to pay nearly the price of the amplifier for an interconnect cable to reach 100% sound quality (or whatever according to the standards set by the consumers themselves). Not debating this at all.
> 
> Just to make one clarification about the Eletech Illiad interconnect cable. The one you tested is not the one I think @twister6 tested.
> 
> ...


Ssriram2791

Thank you for the kind words.

As to Twister6 & the Iliad IC.
Yes you are correct, Twister6 did test the 6 wire and it is quite a bit more expensive. 
I gave the $329 pricing as what I wrote about is the 4 Wire Iliad that I own and tested. Sorry for the confusion. 
I was just pointing out only a few have mentioned how interconnects can make a difference and of the pro reviewers I think it’s Twister6 and maybe one other.

And fully agree with Andy Kong and his complete transparency and keeping us all informed. Big thumbs up.

Thanks again!


----------



## jwbrent (Oct 16, 2021)

NJoyzAudio said:


> Before I start want to pass on "Thank You's" to the early contributors to this thread and especially to Andy Kong for all of his info and transparency of what is the C9, all of you have posted great info and insights that made me want to go and buy one and now I am just enjoying the c9 thoroughly!  Also want to pass on Thank You's to Christian at PlusSound Audio and Eric Chong at Eletech for their input and advise for upgraded interconnects which have made a difference and the subject of my post today.
> 
> I know the topic of cables and the associated costs have launched many religious wars here on Head-Fi.  Many consider it snake oil, but I view cables as the "final" tuning that can be done to IEM's or even source devices.  IF the sound signature you are seeking is close with the HW you've purchased, and your already using high bit rate MP3's or preferably FLAC files, then eeking out that last bit of enjoyment can be found in changing cables.  Will it convert HW that is overly dark or bright into the perfect system, NO.  but if it is close, and you like what your HW is presenting to you, it makes sense to save your investment in said HW and tweak on it with cables, and this is my opinion and a philosophy I follow.
> I don't consider myself a reviewer, just someone who enjoys audio and has been around the block a few times, and likes to share info.  Please understand what I write below is IMO and that YMMV.
> ...



I really enjoyed reading your post, thank you for sharing your experience. 👍

A couple questions: did you feel using the volume control on your Lotoo produced a better sound than using the Cayin volume control, or did you hook it up this way for better usage for your setup? Second, do you feel 50 hours of burn in on the C9 was enough? I wonder if through the cable evaluation some of the better differences heard might also be attributed to the C9 getting more burn-in time.

Your comment about class A operation with the tubes on thrills me on what to expect when I buy my C9 at the end of the year. 🤪

I agree with your assessment that desirable changes can occur even with really short cables. I think I’ll check out PlusSound since they are in CA, so easy for me to do business with.

Oh, one other thing … the C9 will convert a 3.5mm input to balanced from what I’ve read. You mentioned you liked the 4.4mm connection better, so I guess there is a sonic hit with this conversion. I’m going to be using my SA700 which doesn’t have a 4.4mm output. Of course, if I decide to buy a Plus Sound cable, I’ll order it as a 2.5mm to 4.4mm version.


----------



## xand

Andykong said:


> I don't know, it didn't specify.


FYI all on high gain line out voltage from DX300 AMP 12.


----------



## NJoyzAudio

jwbrent said:


> I really enjoyed reading your post, thank you for sharing your experience. 👍
> 
> A couple questions: did you feel using the volume control on your Lotoo produced a better sound than using the Cayin volume control, or did you hook it up this way for better usage for your setup? Second, do you feel 50 hours of burn in on the C9 was enough? I wonder if through the cable evaluation some of the better differences heard might also be attributed to the C9 getting more burn-in time.
> 
> ...


jwbrent

Hey thank you for the kind words in your response.
I’ve enjoyed reading your posts across Head-Fi but didn’t have anything I could add so apologies this is the first time we are connecting!

50hrs was just when I started doing serious listening, based on other C9 users feedback and Andy Kong’s recommendations on this thread.
Quite a bit more hours than this on the C9.  I’ve purchased an extra battery tray and replaced the Sony 3000 mah batteries with Orbtronic 3500 mah 18650’s in both trays to get a little more run time as Class A /tube timbre has the shortest run time (been getting between 5.5-6.5 hours)
I was burning in another 4.4mm device for a friend so was able to get the additional interconnects burned in before doing the head to head testing on the C9. (So the head to head listening I tried to equalize the variables as much as possible as the C9 just gives you so many options to play with!)
Sorry just a long winded way of saying going north of 100-125 hours on the C9 you’l still hear changes, but as you get near 150-160 hours it seemed to level out, both cables and amp.

Yes being in CA, it is just so easy to work with Christian at PlusSound.  He’s really easy to work with and highly recommended with you being also a CA resident.  
Damn Covid has messed with logistics so much I’ve had items get bogged down in shipping from outside and even inside the US.  But have to say Eric at Eletech seems to have his logistics working despite Covid.  Really was thinking of having a cable made by Satin Audio, but Covid shut them down for I think over a month which shut that idea down.
But back to PlusSound, great cables, really sound advice from Christian, solid builds, lots of choice in cable types and connector options, I’ve really enjoyed getting and using cables from them, and have seen really good impressions from the pro reviewers.  Doing a 2.5mm to 4.4mm for them would not be a problem, but have you considered one of the adapters from Effect Audio, PW or even DD-Hifi? On AK daps, they all use the 3.5mm port to ground and convert 2.5 to 4.4, and there has been much written on Head-fi with users saying they can be fairly transparent.  Only mention as so many (even AK in their newer releases) have moved their balanced connections to 4.4mm and could force you to reterminate the cable later.
Yes the C9 can do the conversion of single ended to balanced and visa versa but I thought there was a sonic hit for my ears.  Might be OK for some, just not for me, rather go balanced natively.

And your question of why use the Lotoo PAW 6000 for volume over the C9’s really nice digital volume control?
I guess for me I think I hear a little difference for the positive using the C9 in pure amp mode vs letting it be pre amp/amp, as I really do like the Lotoo house sound and it really comes through when the C9 is used as amp only.
But the icing on the cake for me using the DAP for volume control as you have to use it’s screen to mange what is playing that it is just much more intuitive to also control the volume from the same device.

Sorry for the long reply but hope it all helps, and I really think you will not be disappointed when you do pull the trigger on the C9.


----------



## jwbrent

NJoyzAudio said:


> jwbrent
> 
> Hey thank you for the kind words in your response.
> I’ve enjoyed reading your posts across Head-Fi but didn’t have anything I could add so apologies this is the first time we are connecting!
> ...



Thank you for your very nice reply, good to meet you!

Did I miss you can’t connect to power and charge the batteries at the same time? Yeah, I figured a couple hundred hours to seal the deal.

Thank you for recommending Christian, he certainly sounds like the type of person I like to do business with. And I’m glad you like the quality, both sound and build, since I’m a huge fan of nicely built audio gear.

I want to replace the SA700 with a player that has a 4.4mm jack as well as being a step up in overall performance. In addition, the SA700 has a bumped up midrange which I have to eq for, so I’d prefer a dap that has a warmer tone. I really like the Lotoo PAW S1, it completely changed my thinking on how affordable great sound can be. My only pause with the Lotoo daps is that they use only one dac. I find that odd, especially with the LPGT.

Anyway, nice chatting, and I’ll see you around on the threads … ✌️


----------



## NJoyzAudio (Oct 17, 2021)

jwbrent said:


> Thank you for your very nice reply, good to meet you!
> 
> Did I miss you can’t connect to power and charge the batteries at the same time? Yeah, I figured a couple hundred hours to seal the deal.
> 
> ...


Jwbrent

Charging.
Yup if you look back through this thread Andy Kong has stated specifics as to charging
1) don’t charge your source and the C9 from the same charger or device, ie use a laptop that is charging to charge the C9. A Head-Fier burned up his laptops audio section doing this. Another may have fried their DAP by using a single charger that had 2 usb outs and charged both from this.
2) He did not recommend charging and playing at the same time but if you must, he had specifics to follow.
That info was pretty early in this thread.  Hope this helps

As to the Lotoo house sound
I just sold my PAW S1 to get the new PAW S2 that will have line out support allowing me a quick way to use a phone, an iPad or laptop with the C9.
As to a single DAC, it’s how Lotoo implements it circuitry that others including reviewers like Twister6 and Deezle177 have mentioned it’s not the number of DACs but how they are implemented and integrated that makes the difference.
I’ll have to agree in that the PAW6K, PAW Touch Gold, and even the S1/S2 that I’ve all listened to sound smoother and better than other dual DAC DAP I’ve owned or listened to, to this point.
Do if you can take a listen, as if your happy with the S1’s sound the PAW 6000 and the LGPT will surprise you.

Anyways now I’m preaching so will stop here as everyone has that sound signature they are chasing.  I’ve found mine to date, but always open to listening to see if that changes.
Hope you find that sound your chasing!

See you around!


----------



## jwbrent

NJoyzAudio said:


> Jwbrent
> 
> Charging.
> Yup if you look back through this thread Andy Kong has stated specifics as to charging
> ...



Thank you for the warning about charging. ✌️

Yes, I understand the DAC implementation has a large influence on sound, I suppose when I say odd, it’s just I’ve been trained by my past experience that separate dacs for each channel was best for better s/n ratio, especially for balanced circuits. But no matter, the proof is in the pudding as some would say.

Thanks again for your comments. 😁


----------



## Wildcatsare1

twister6 said:


> or, get the upcoming N8ii flagship DAP which going to have dual NuTube, similar to C9.  Instead of carrying 3 separate devices, _source_, _usb dac_, _portable amp_, you can carry just one DAP.



Will it Stream?


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Andykong said:


> Can you control your DX300 with HiByLink on y our iphone?  I was under the impression that HiByLink only compatible wiht HiBy based soluton.


I did not try HibyLink.


----------



## Andykong

xand said:


> FYI all on high gain line out voltage from DX300 AMP 12.



That's very helpful, thank you for your clarification.


----------



## Ichos

Today I have switched to the Heddphone, it can run it pretty loud, high gain from the balanced output but I don't hear the same control as from a beefy desktop amplifier.
Bass is very good but upper mids - treble is kinda of thin.


----------



## ssriram2791

Ichos said:


> Today I have switched to the Heddphone, it can run it pretty loud, high gain from the balanced output but I don't hear the same control as from a beefy desktop amplifier.
> Bass is very good but upper mids - treble is kinda of thin.


HEDDphone needs lot of current and voltage (because of low sensitivity and low impedance) and C9 is not designed to handle it.


----------



## Ichos

ssriram2791 said:


> HEDDphone needs lot of current and voltage (because of low sensitivity and low impedance) and C9 is not designed to handle it.


That is what I am saying...
But still very respectable for such a battery powered amp.


----------



## IgeNeLL

Ichos said:


> That is what I am saying...
> But still very respectable for such a battery powered amp.


C9 is a very interesting device, I'm still looking forward to a desktop solution using battery too.

That solves the problem of power source, which sometimes cannot be solved in some situation.


----------



## Whitigir

IgeNeLL said:


> C9 is a very interesting device, I'm still looking forward to a desktop solution using battery too.
> 
> That solves the problem of power source, which sometimes cannot be solved in some situation.


Shanling M30 Is a Desktop Battery powered Device


----------



## MACyaner

IgeNeLL said:


> C9 is a very interesting device, I'm still looking forward to a desktop solution using battery too.
> 
> That solves the problem of power source, which sometimes cannot be solved in some situation.


Sony DMP-Z1 Is a Desktop Battery powered Device


----------



## IgeNeLL

MACyaner said:


> Sony DMP-Z1 Is a Desktop Battery powered Device





MACyaner said:


> Sony DMP-Z1 Is a Desktop Battery powered Device


Sony is not my cup of tea hehe


----------



## alavenue

If I was wanting to keep my C9 plugged in, is it best to use a low wattage power brick? For example 15w vs 60w?


----------



## Whitigir

alavenue said:


> If I was wanting to keep my C9 plugged in, is it best to use a low wattage power brick? For example 15w vs 60w?


What power brick ? How do you connect ?


----------



## alavenue (Oct 24, 2021)

If I was wanting to keep my C9 plugged in, is it best to use a low wattage power brick? For example 15w vs 60w?


Whitigir said:


> What power brick ? How do you connect ?


By power brick I just meant charger. I have different ones that I use for laptop, phone tablet ect. (100w, 60w, 30w, 15w). Maybe I'm over thinking it but just thought a lower powered charger would be better to reduce heat when I keep the C9 plugged in 24/7 and minimize other issues, but I'm not sure.

 Sorry for the confusion Mr. Whitigir 😅😝


----------



## DaYooper

Hasn't it been fairly well discussed that keeping the C9 plugged in is a no-good-to-do thing? Just get extra batteries and tray. A little inconvenient but a ten second plug it in so it will reset isn't much.


----------



## kmmbd

jwbrent said:


> I want to replace the SA700 with a player that has a 4.4mm jack as well as being a step up in overall performance. In addition, the SA700 has a bumped up midrange which I have to eq for, so I’d prefer a dap that has a warmer tone. I really like the Lotoo PAW S1, it completely changed my thinking on how affordable great sound can be. My only pause with the Lotoo daps is that they use only one dac. I find that odd, especially with the LPGT.


I have the LP6K and I've also extensively auditioned the SA700. The SA700's midrange coloration is very evident and sounds excellent with some pairings but yes it's not as universal as the LP6K. 

However, I would not call the LP6K to have a _warm _tone per se. It's more on the neutral side with somewhat accentuated low-end (mostly around the sub-bass region).  I find no coloration in the mids/treble compared to, say, Cayin N6ii+E01, which has a really tastefully done _warm _signature.

The LPGT is a different case though as it's warmer than the LP6K (though less warm than the N6ii+E01) and has better microdynamics (mostly due to the amp section, I'd say DAC section of both LPGT/LP6K is as good as it gets). 

A bit of preamble regarding the dual-DAC part: so far only Cowon and A&K dual-DAC designs have impressed me due to their dual-mono implementation (which has noticeable improvement in separation and staging). However, I find the LP6K more resolving than any Cowon/A&K DAPs I've tried so far. It's as resolving as similarly priced desktop DACs which is astonishing in a sense. The amp section of the LP6K is its Achilles' heel but with the C9 that becomes a moot point. 

I think the LP6K will surprise you with its transparency when paired with C9 (and the PEQ is also great if you need that for some pairings). Though I personally kept the DAC/Pre-amp side with fixed voltage and controlled the volume on the amp/C9 side (this usually leads to the best dynamic range).


----------



## jwbrent

kmmbd said:


> I have the LP6K and I've also extensively auditioned the SA700. The SA700's midrange coloration is very evident and sounds excellent with some pairings but yes it's not as universal as the LP6K.
> 
> However, I would not call the LP6K to have a _warm _tone per se. It's more on the neutral side with somewhat accentuated low-end (mostly around the sub-bass region).  I find no coloration in the mids/treble compared to, say, Cayin N6ii+E01, which has a really tastefully done _warm _signature.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your feedback on the Lotoo daps. I’m still up in the air on what to buy primarily because I’m anticipating Sony coming out with its WM1A/Z replacements sometime early next year, or at least I hope so. But if I were to choose a new dap today, I think the LPGT would be the way I would go. We’ll see. ✌️


----------



## RTodd (Oct 25, 2021)

kmmbd said:


> I have the LP6K and I've also extensively auditioned the SA700. The SA700's midrange coloration is very evident and sounds excellent with some pairings but yes it's not as universal as the LP6K.
> 
> However, I would not call the LP6K to have a _warm _tone per se. It's more on the neutral side with somewhat accentuated low-end (mostly around the sub-bass region).  I find no coloration in the mids/treble compared to, say, Cayin N6ii+E01, which has a really tastefully done _warm _signature.
> 
> ...


Nicely written.
Wow exactly what my experience is with LP6K and C9.
As for dual DACs the Lotoo implementation of a single DAC chip (to my ears) shows that it is not necessary to have dual chips to reach a very high resolution level.


----------



## immortalsoul

Hi, if any of you have a Cayin C9 that want to trade for other goods please shot me a PM. Thank you!


----------



## JBOOGIE86

Can the C9 be a good pairing for the Verite Closed?


----------



## Spawn300Z

Yes, would make nice portable setup.


----------



## Ichos

And not only portable.


----------



## Nostoi

JBOOGIE86 said:


> Can the C9 be a good pairing for the Verite Closed?


Yes outstanding, I use this combo often.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

JBOOGIE86 said:


> Can the C9 be a good pairing for the Verite Closed?


Absolutely.    DX300 + amp12 + C9 = perfect for ZMF Verite Closed.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

NJoyzAudio said:


> Before I start want to pass on "Thank You's" to the early contributors to this thread and especially to Andy Kong for all of his info and transparency of what is the C9, all of you have posted great info and insights that made me want to go and buy one and now I am just enjoying the c9 thoroughly!  Also want to pass on Thank You's to Christian at PlusSound Audio and Eric Chong at Eletech for their input and advise for upgraded interconnects which have made a difference and the subject of my post today.
> 
> I know the topic of cables and the associated costs have launched many religious wars here on Head-Fi.  Many consider it snake oil, but I view cables as the "final" tuning that can be done to IEM's or even source devices.  IF the sound signature you are seeking is close with the HW you've purchased, and your already using high bit rate MP3's or preferably FLAC files, then eeking out that last bit of enjoyment can be found in changing cables.  Will it convert HW that is overly dark or bright into the perfect system, NO.  but if it is close, and you like what your HW is presenting to you, it makes sense to save your investment in said HW and tweak on it with cables, and this is my opinion and a philosophy I follow.
> I don't consider myself a reviewer, just someone who enjoys audio and has been around the block a few times, and likes to share info.  Please understand what I write below is IMO and that YMMV.
> ...


This is the cable I use from Audiophile Ninja.    $35.   Strong and sturdy.
.
https://www.audiophileninja.com/product/4-4mm-balanced-interconnect/


----------



## Ichos

Till now I was using the DX300(12) line out at maxed level and controlled the volume from the C9.
Today I switched to C9 pre mode to use it as a power amp and control the volume from the iBasso.
Much better sound quality and driving grip, with the AMP12 this mode is a great match.
After listening for a while with all the available flavors, I have to admit that Tube Class A is by far my beloved one.
Addicting!


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Ichos said:


> Till now I was using the DX300(12) line out at maxed level and controlled the volume from the C9.
> Today I switched to C9 pre mode to use it as a power amp and control the volume from the iBasso.
> Much better sound quality and driving grip, with the AMP12 this mode is a great match.
> After listening for a while with all the available flavors, I have to admit that Tube Class A is by far my beloved one.
> Addicting!


I'll have to try that.    Are you still plugged into the DX300 line out port?   IE. the left side?


----------



## Ichos

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I'll have to try that.    Are you still plugged into the DX300 line out port?   IE. the left side?


Yes LO at the left, gain set to high and be careful with the volume, start from low setting not to blow your headphones!


----------



## Spawn300Z

Ichos said:


> Till now I was using the DX300(12) line out at maxed level and controlled the volume from the C9.
> Today I switched to C9 pre mode to use it as a power amp and control the volume from the iBasso.
> Much better sound quality and driving grip, with the AMP12 this mode is a great match.
> After listening for a while with all the available flavors, I have to admit that Tube Class A is by far my beloved one.
> Addicting!


That’s how I use my C9 iPad Pro to the Chord Mojo to the C9 in PreAmp mode using the mojo for volume control. This amp is sick with my Diana V2s.


----------



## Ichos

Damnit, I have the HD8XX but I am waiting for a 4.4mm cable and I am dying to test the combination.
I hope that I can combine the time lines.


----------



## Spawn300Z (Nov 5, 2021)

I just recieved my Black Dragon 4.4mm cable and just upgraded to the new iPad Pro 12.9 with the M1 chipset. I will be testing it out this weekend. I think it’s going to be great for movie watching too.can’t wait to hear the difference with balanced output.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Ichos said:


> Damnit, I have the HD8XX but I am waiting for a 4.4mm cable and I am dying to test the combination.
> I hope that I can combine the time lines.


I have the HD800S and I pair it with DX312 + C9 and it sounds really great.


----------



## NJoyzAudio

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> This is the cable I use from Audiophile Ninja.    $35.   Strong and sturdy.
> .
> https://www.audiophileninja.com/product/4-4mm-balanced-interconnect/


HiFiHawaii808  (PS love the handle name!)

Thanks for that information
I did try other copper based cables, with mixed results
Glad you found one you liked
but seeing your post on other forums here in Head-Fi, want to just pass on this as it may interest you as I know your also chasing a specific sound signature!

Just like with Headphones/IEM's, the different cable material does have an impact on timbre and soundstage.
I know you enjoy a specific sound, and would encourage if you can borrow or buy different Interconnects as I found it did make a difference but it is in that additional 10%-20% sound change realm.
The question as I mentioned is how far does a person chase that elusive final 10%-20% of sound difference?

For me it was the "Return On Investment" (ROI) on my time, not having to burn in a new set of earphones or other HW and going beyond what I really like already.
I really liked the sound out of my Lotoo HW.  But having seen a lot of the posts early on in this thread made me wonder so I rolled the dice and got the C9
While I was not disappointed with what I got, I felt there was only a marginal improvement and KNEW there was more to be had, so why I started tuning with the interconnect.
Is going to the extent I did with interconnect cables for everyone?  Admittedly NO.  but for me, it literally is the difference between staying with HW I like or having to pump even larger $'s into something like a Triallii with Aeneid or Centurion, or as you have moving to a Susvara or LCD-5 and then still a cable change, and then another amp.
no for me I've reached a place I enjoy what I'm hearing and know to eek out "just a little more sound" is even MORE higher $'s so again it is maximizing my ROI. 

The only other thing I'll comment on as I also see from other posts you enjoy better ergonomics, that moving to a longer cable than the typical 4" or 6" length on the on the interconnect can allow you to position the source player comfortably without putting strain on the connectors, and really has no impact on sonics (shorter is better but staying around 12" is negligible for length from my own testing over the years)

Hope this information helps


----------



## Ichos

Spawn300Z said:


> I just recieved my Black Dragon 4.4mm cable and just upgraded to the new iPad Pro 12.9 with the M1 chipset. I will be testing it out this weekend. I think it’s going to be great for movie watching too.can’t wait to hear the difference with balanced output.


It is going to be a great weekend!


----------



## Spawn300Z

NJoyzAudio said:


> The only other thing I'll comment on as I also see from other posts you enjoy better ergonomics, that moving to a longer cable than the typical 4" or 6" length on the on the interconnect can allow you to position the source player comfortably without putting strain on the connectors, and really has no impact on sonics (shorter is better but staying around 12" is negligible for length from my own testing over the years)
> 
> Hope this information helps


Your exactly right. I got a longer cable to connect my iPhone and iPad to the mojo. So I can hold it or sit it there. Makes it so much more convenient.


----------



## newkid7

A silly question,
I don't use DAP often, how can I enjoy C9 with my MacBook, connect to a DAC with 4.4 output?


----------



## Spawn300Z

newkid7 said:


> A silly question,
> I don't use DAP often, how can I enjoy C9 with my MacBook, connect to a DAC with 4.4 output?


I use my iPad to Chord Moji to my C9. I can do the same with my MacBook Pro.


----------



## gazzington

I sold my c9 a few months back, but then ended up missing it a lot so have just bought another!


----------



## gazzington

I've now got every module for the n6ii also.  Lots of experiments coming up.  I'm also keen to try the c9 wit my ibasso dx300max.  Exciting


----------



## zen87192

gazzington said:


> I've now got every module for the n6ii also.  Lots of experiments coming up.  I'm also keen to try the c9 wit my ibasso dx300max.  Exciting


Hi, I tried that combo a while ago with my 3MAX SS through my C9. It offers a very slightly higher wall of sound but little else. I felt that the 3MAX was very capable on its own. Same with the Ti whereas in addition to the higher wall of sound the treble got a bit excitable. You can of course start playing about with Class A/AB and Tubes to warm the sound somewhat. Overall 3MAX is great on its own.


----------



## gazzington

zen87192 said:


> Hi, I tried that combo a while ago with my 3MAX SS through my C9. It offers a very slightly higher wall of sound but little else. I felt that the 3MAX was very capable on its own. Same with the Ti whereas in addition to the higher wall of sound the treble got a bit excitable. You can of course start playing about with Class A/AB and Tubes to warm the sound somewhat. Overall 3MAX is great on its own.


Thanks for letting me know. No matter I know it pairs great with my N6ii and wm1z.  Anybody know how the final a8000 or acoustune iems do with the c9?


----------



## zen87192

gazzington said:


> Thanks for letting me know. No matter I know it pairs great with my N6ii and wm1z.  Anybody know how the final a8000 or acoustune iems do with the c9?


Definitely.... N6ii/A02 is the benchmark match for the C9. Although I did play my Fiio M11+ SS through it and that was brilliant! Different chips though so gave a completely different sound signature. Very precise sound and tight Bass.


----------



## Nostoi

gazzington said:


> I sold my c9 a few months back, but then ended up missing it a lot so have just bought another!


Good move. I've had my since it came out and continue to love it, especially via N6ii/A02. I can't really think of anything that didn't sound fantastic on it.

Been listening to DT1990 Pro via TT2 & C9 this morning - another great sounding set-up.


----------



## RTodd (Nov 9, 2021)

gazzington said:


> I sold my c9 a few months back, but then ended up missing it a lot so have just bought another!


Listening to mine right now Roxy Music For Your Pleasure, with the Thummim and sounds awesome. Brings the bass forward quite a bit and the NuTubes are adding to that nostalgic feeling I used to have in front of tower speakers cranked up. I have to take this in small 2 hour doses, what a great way to get the day started.

Glad for you coming back to the C9.


----------



## DaYooper

gazzington said:


> I sold my c9 a few months back, but then ended up missing it a lot so have just bought another!


I feel so justified now for pulling the ad on my C9 within a few days of posting it. I would have suffered a bad case of seller's remorse.


----------



## gazzington

DaYooper said:


> I feel so justified now for pulling the ad on my C9 within a few days of posting it. I would have suffered a bad case of seller's remorse.


Yeah, keep it. Basically makes all daps sound better


----------



## gazzington

I notice when I charge it, it shouts from 2 lights to four. When in use it, after a few mins it drops from 4 lights to 2. Is this to do with battery conditioning?


----------



## gazzington

Nostoi said:


> Good move. I've had my since it came out and continue to love it, especially via N6ii/A02. I can't really think of anything that didn't sound fantastic on it.
> 
> Been listening to DT1990 Pro via TT2 & C9 this morning - another great sounding set-up.


I’ve wondered about getting a dt1990 pro with this set up. Did you change the foam to reduce the treble peaks?


----------



## armstrj2

gazzington said:


> I notice when I charge it, it shouts from 2 lights to four. When in use it, after a few mins it drops from 4 lights to 2. Is this to do with battery conditioning?


When I got mine first it used to stay on 4 lights for hours and then the battery would start to die quickly. I let it run down completely and then fully charged it and the indicators work better now so it may help you too. It was recommended somewhere else in this thread to fix it.


----------



## gazzington

armstrj2 said:


> When I got mine first it used to stay on 4 lights for hours and then the battery would start to die quickly. I let it run down completely and then fully charged it and the indicators work better now so it may help you too. It was recommended somewhere else in this thread to fix it.


Cool, I thought that was the case. I’ll use it until it runs out tomorrow and then recharge it. Thanks 😀


----------



## Andykong (Nov 9, 2021)

gazzington said:


> I sold my c9 a few months back, but then ended up missing it a lot so have just bought another!



Haha, so you once was lost, but now you found ......
Just make sure you won't lost it again.    



gazzington said:


> I've now got every module for the n6ii also. Lots of experiments coming up. I'm also keen to try the c9 wit my ibasso dx300max. Exciting



The N6ii seems to get a lot of love after we launch R01, this is so encouraging.


----------



## Andykong

gazzington said:


> I notice when I charge it, it shouts from 2 lights to four. When in use it, after a few mins it drops from 4 lights to 2. Is this to do with battery conditioning?



Should be battery problem, if this is your first cycle after you acquired the C9 again, maybe not all 4 batteries are in full charge, so the overall voltage drop quickly once they reach certain point.  Discharge and recharge normally can rectify the problem.


----------



## Andykong

Nostoi said:


> Good move. I've had my since it came out and continue to love it, especially via N6ii/A02. I can't really think of anything that didn't sound fantastic on it.
> 
> Been listening to DT1990 Pro via TT2 & C9 this morning - another great sounding set-up.



The TT2 should be more than capable to handle DT1990 pro, wonder what mode did  you use in C9? I assume you want to add a warmer presentation to your DT1990 Pro?


----------



## gazzington

Andykong said:


> Should be battery problem, if this is your first cycle after you acquired the C9 again, maybe not all 4 batteries are in full charge, so the overall voltage drop quickly once they reach certain point.  Discharge and recharge normally can rectify the problem.


Thanks Andy, I’ll do that today 😀


----------



## Nostoi

Andykong said:


> The TT2 should be more than capable to handle DT1990 pro, wonder what mode did  you use in C9? I assume you want to add a warmer presentation to your DT1990 Pro?


Exactly. Not a question of power but a question of colour. I find the C9 slightly "tames" the peaks on the DT1990 without in any sense augmenting the technical presentation. Generally I use the TT2 on its own, but it's nice to have the option for a different tonality.


----------



## Nostoi

gazzington said:


> I’ve wondered about getting a dt1990 pro with this set up. Did you change the foam to reduce the treble peaks?


I didn't. This is actually the 4th time I've owned the 1990Pro and i generally use Dekoni velour elite pads for any peakiness but I find it's not necessary with the C9. It's a fantastic pairing.


----------



## gazzington

Andykong said:


> Should be battery problem, if this is your first cycle after you acquired the C9 again, maybe not all 4 batteries are in full charge, so the overall voltage drop quickly once they reach certain point.  Discharge and recharge normally can rectify the problem.


I just discharged it completely and then started to charge it again. It seems to charge properly for the first two lights and then just jumps straight to 4th light. I’ve taken the batteries out and puts them back in. Same result


----------



## 111MilesToGo

gazzington said:


> Thanks for letting me know. No matter I know it pairs great with my N6ii and wm1z.  Anybody know how the final a8000 or acoustune iems do with the c9?


+1. I would also like to hear about any impressions of the final A8000 with the C9, mainly for a bit of coloring. More, I would like to hear about the A8000 on the N6ii, any module(s) you have. Thanks!


----------



## Ichos

The C9 is just amazing with everything I have tested so far.
Tonight I am greatly enjoying it with the Focal Clear MG pro.
Very holographic and dynamic.
Till with all my headphones I haven't reached for the high gain.


----------



## IgeNeLL

Have anyone paired C9 with HF suvanra.
I know it cannot drive suvanra properly but hope that it can temporary match .


----------



## Mithrandir1980

I just got my C9 and can't get it to turn on.  I put it to charge and the 4 LEDs turn orange but the device does not turn on even with the battery at maximum ...

 I need help!


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Mithrandir1980 said:


> I just got my C9 and can't get it to turn on.  I put it to charge and the 4 LEDs turn orange but the device does not turn on even with the battery at maximum ...
> 
> I need help!


Did you open up the unit to charge the batteries?    If so, you need to plug it in again once you close the C9.  Then, it will turn on.   This is a safety feature.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

IgeNeLL said:


> Have anyone paired C9 with HF suvanra.
> I know it cannot drive suvanra properly but hope that it can temporary match .


Yes, I just got a Susvara after having owned the C9 all year.    Andy Kong said it wouldn't drive it properly and I can confirm that the sound is very bad.   It sounds very compressed.    I only have the gain set to about 2 pm, but it really sounds bad.


----------



## Mithrandir1980

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Did you open up the unit to charge the batteries?    If so, you need to plug it in again once you close the C9.  Then, it will turn on.   This is a safety feature.


No, as I took it out of the box I tried to turn it on and it did nothing so I put it to charge and the 4 LEDs are fixed as if the battery was full but it does not turn on when I press the button ...


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Mithrandir1980 said:


> No, as I took it out of the box I tried to turn it on and it did nothing so I put it to charge and the 4 LEDs are fixed as if the battery was full but it does not turn on when I press the button ...


Did you buy it new?   Are the batteries properly oriented in the unit?   Are they seated properly?    It's possible you have a bad unit.


----------



## Mithrandir1980

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Did you buy it new?   Are the batteries properly oriented in the unit?   Are they seated properly?    It's possible you have a bad unit.


Yes, it is new I just received it from the store.  The batteries are oriented correctly I do not understand p it does not turn on they are supposed to be charged ...


----------



## DaYooper

Mithrandir1980 said:


> Yes, it is new I just received it from the store.  The batteries are oriented correctly I do not understand p it does not turn on they are supposed to be charged ...


i would...remove the battery tray, wait a couple moments. Re-insert the tray, plug in the charger for 10 seconds or more then try it.


----------



## Mithrandir1980

DaYooper said:


> i would...remove the battery tray, wait a couple moments. Re-insert the tray, plug in the charger for 10 seconds or more then try it.


Nothing, I have tried to connect it to two different chargers, with several cables, directly to a strip usb, remove the batteries and leave it for 10 minutes, change places, plug it in for 10 seconds and either ...


----------



## IgeNeLL

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Yes, I just got a Susvara after having owned the C9 all year.    Andy Kong said it wouldn't drive it properly and I can confirm that the sound is very bad.   It sounds very compressed.    I only have the gain set to about 2 pm, but it really sounds bad.


That seems low efficient HP is different case.
May  be we need the C99 desktop version haha


----------



## Chill iLL

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Finally got my Van Nuys case for my C9.   It's wonderful.   Thanks to @masahito24@chart for helping me with the order.   I met with him yesterday to pick up my case and he has some outrageous gear.
> 
> I want to see if I can actually listen to it in the case.   I recall a discussion about HIBY Link.   Anyone have instructions on how to set up it so that I can control my DX300 with my iPhone or Apple watch?


Any info on which case this is?


----------



## masahito24@chart

Here's a link to the case: https://www.vannuys.co.jp/official/new_item/ve291/


----------



## Ichos (Nov 25, 2021)

I bought a balanced cable for the HD8XX.




First time I needed high gain.
I have to push volume above halfway to enjoy classical music.
Strangely enough I didn't like the tube mode nor solid state class A.
There is some kind of harshness, roughness, edge to the sound.
I prefer the solid state AB.


----------



## Chill iLL

Has anyone experienced any cackling/noise when using the DX312 LO to C9 using PRE? I get random cackling/have to move things around to get it to go away- almost like interference. Wondering what it's coming from. I've got a new interconnect on the way since the stock is a little too short, but I'm curious if this is a known thing or solvable?


----------



## Ichos

Chill iLL said:


> Has anyone experienced any cackling/noise when using the DX312 LO to C9 using PRE? I get random cackling/have to move things around to get it to go away- almost like interference. Wondering what it's coming from. I've got a new interconnect on the way since the stock is a little too short, but I'm curious if this is a known thing or solvable?


I have used this combination quite a few times without experiencing such an issue.
Both with stock and iFi interconnect.


----------



## Chill iLL

Ichos said:


> I have used this combination quite a few times without experiencing such an issue.
> Both with stock and iFi interconnect.


Thanks! Yeah, it's odd...I sometimes get issue where the pre turns off too and I have to hold the button down to turn it back on.


----------



## Mithrandir1980

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Finally got my Van Nuys case for my C9.   It's wonderful.   Thanks to @masahito24@chart for helping me with the order.   I met with him yesterday to pick up my case and he has some outrageous gear.
> 
> I want to see if I can actually listen to it in the case.   I recall a discussion about HIBY Link.   Anyone have instructions on how to set up it so that I can control my DX300 with my iPhone or Apple watch?


What is the price of that case?


----------



## Mithrandir1980

I have just received the replacement of the defective unit and when I take it out of the box it does not turn on either ... I have had it charging for 3 hours the LEDs appear fixed as the charge is already complete and when pressing the button it does nothing ...

 I have called my distributor and he tells me that it is very rare that they have sold several and they have not had a problem and 2 in a row they do not turn on ...

 I don't know if something escapes me ...

 I need help!  😓
😓


----------



## jmills8

Mithrandir1980 said:


> I have just received the replacement of the defective unit and when I take it out of the box it does not turn on either ... I have had it charging for 3 hours the LEDs appear fixed as the charge is already complete and when pressing the button it does nothing ...
> 
> I have called my distributor and he tells me that it is very rare that they have sold several and they have not had a problem and 2 in a row they do not turn on ...
> 
> ...


Maybe this and you are not meant to be.


----------



## Andykong (Dec 1, 2021)

Mithrandir1980 said:


> I just got my C9 and can't get it to turn on.  I put it to charge and the 4 LEDs turn orange but the device does not turn on even with the battery at maximum ...
> 
> I need help!





Mithrandir1980 said:


> Nothing, I have tried to connect it to two different chargers, with several cables, directly to a strip usb, remove the batteries and leave it for 10 minutes, change places, plug it in for 1
> I have just received the replacement of the defective unit and when I take it out of the box it does not turn on either ... I have had it charging for 3 hours the LEDs appear fixed as the charge is already complete and when pressing the button it does nothing ...
> 
> I have called my distributor and he tells me that it is very rare that they have sold several and they have not had a problem and 2 in a row they do not turn on ...
> ...



This is not good.  Please accept our apology for the inconvenience caused.    

Tor two brand new C9 failed one after the other, the most likely outcome will be over-discharge batteries since the batteries are stored inside the C9 for the same period, if one set is over-discharged, its most likely that the other set is also having the same problem.

If you have a multimeter in your house, please check the cell voltage of the 18650 batteries in your C9, a regular discharged battery should hold its voltage at 3V.  If the cell voltage of your 18650 batteries dropped to or below 2.75V, the battery enters sleep mode, and the C9 battery charge will not be able to charge the battery at all.  I have send you the instruction and photo of multimeter setting, hopefully we can clarify whether this is a hibernated battery issue as we have guessed, or its a double failure on battery modules.


----------



## Andykong

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Yes, I just got a Susvara after having owned the C9 all year.    Andy Kong said it wouldn't drive it properly and I can confirm that the sound is very bad.   It sounds very compressed.    I only have the gain set to about 2 pm, but it really sounds bad.



Well , Andy is a honest person, relatively at least.


----------



## Andykong

IgeNeLL said:


> That seems low efficient HP is different case.
> May  be we need the C99 desktop version haha


Well, we have desktop version vacuum tube headphone amplifier readily available, the HA-6A is a good start for Susvara.

If you want something smaller, IHA-6 is a steal for HE6 and Susvara, one of the low cost options that are well-received in many shows and events demo.  Need a touch of vacuum tube like C9? add iDAC-6MK2 to the chain, the tube output buffer will add the tube magic to your system. 

See, all worked out and readily available.


----------



## Mithrandir1980

Andykong said:


> This is not good.  Please accept our apology for the inconvenience caused.
> 
> Tor two brand new C9 failed one after the other, the most likely outcome will be over-discharge batteries since the battery are stored inside the C9 for the same period, if one set is over-discharged, its most likely that the other set is also having the same problem.
> 
> If you have a multimeter in your house, please check the cell voltage of the 18650 batteries in your C9, a regular discharged battery should hold its voltage at 3V.  If the cell voltage of your 18650 batteries dropped to or below 2.75V, the battery enters sleep mode, and the C9 battery charge will not be able to charge the battery at all.  I have send you the instruction and photo of multimeter setting, hopefully we can clarify whether this is a hibernated battery issue as we have guessed, or its a double failure on battery modules.


Thank you very much for the help ... if according to you the batteries go into hibernation mode, would there be any way to recover them?

 I think I have another set of batteries at home and an extra charger. I'm going to try to see if I'm lucky ...


----------



## Mithrandir1980

I think I have found the problem ...

 The batteries are dead ...


----------



## Whitigir

Mithrandir1980 said:


> I think I have found the problem ...
> 
> The batteries are dead ...


You can recover the batteries from over discharged with some specific equipments.  Highly risky 

You can revive the C9 with a new set of 4X batteries of 18650 cells


----------



## Andykong (Dec 1, 2021)

Mithrandir1980 said:


> I think I have found the problem ...
> 
> The batteries are dead ...



Yes, unfortunately the batteries are dead.  On the bright side, we have probably identified the source of your problem, and this is a relatively simple situation when compare to failure battery tray or failure C9 Main circuit board.



Whitigir said:


> You can recover the batteries from over discharged with some specific equipments.  Highly risky
> 
> You can revive the C9 with a new set of 4X batteries of 18650 cells



Google "revive hibernated 18650 battery", there are quite a lot of information available online (e.g., *HERE *or *HERE*), and some of the specialised 18650 battery charge are equipped with special charging mode to revive hibernated battery.

Since we'll arrange replacement battery for @Mithrandir1980, we don't recommend any of these procedures unless someone want to perform a little experiment for fun.


----------



## Whitigir

Andykong said:


> Yes, unfortunately the batteries are dead.  On the bright side, we have probably identified the source of your problem, and this is a relatively simple situation when compare to failure battery tray or failure C9 Main circuit board.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is very thoughtful of you !!! So much that I want to hold a Cayin DAP in my hands….Please tell me some informations about the N8ii


----------



## Mithrandir1980

Thanks to @Andykong we managed to find the problem!

 I just tried a set of batteries that I had at home and I have gotten the device to work and turn on and the batteries that were dead I have put them in a battery charger and I think they have revived because the voltage has started to rise above 2.6 V!

 Tonight I will finally be able to enjoy the device after 15 days suffering
😭


----------



## Andykong

Mithrandir1980 said:


> Thanks to @Andykong we managed to find the problem!
> 
> I just tried a set of batteries that I had at home and I have gotten the device to work and turn on and the batteries that were dead I have put them in a battery charger and I think they have revived because the voltage has started to rise above 2.6 V!
> 
> ...



Once again, I am terribly sorry for all the inconvenience caused, I'll write up an article to remind users to check cell voltage when they run into similar problem. Hopefully the new comers can identify the problem promptly.


----------



## Mithrandir1980

Andykong said:


> Once again, I am terribly sorry for all the inconvenience caused, I'll write up an article to remind users to check cell voltage when they run into similar problem. Hopefully the new comers can identify the problem promptly.


I am glad to have detected the problem because I even thought about returning it and it completely took away the trust I had placed in the brand, it was unthinkable that such expensive devices would have these problems.

 The truth is that both Zococity and @Andykong have been concerned from the first moment in solving the problem and that is appreciated.

 I will buy again without hesitation, you have reinforced my confidence in your brand!

 Thanks for everything.

 Now to enjoy it!


----------



## armstrj2

Mithrandir1980 said:


> I am glad to have detected the problem because I even thought about returning it and it completely took away the trust I had placed in the brand, it was unthinkable that such expensive devices would have these problems.
> 
> The truth is that both Zococity and @Andykong have been concerned from the first moment in solving the problem and that is appreciated.
> 
> ...


The level of support on the Cayin threads from Andy (and others) is second to non in my opinion. Thankfully I've had no issues like your own but it is nice to know the support will be here if needed.


----------



## Mithrandir1980

Esto ya es otro nivel 🤤


----------



## twister6

Mithrandir1980 said:


> Esto ya es otro nivel 🤤



First of all, Alan Walker RULES!   And, since you are driving C9 with DX300 w/amp11, keep DX300 LO output set to low gain to avoid damaging amp11


----------



## Mithrandir1980 (Dec 2, 2021)

twister6 said:


> First of all, Alan Walker RULES!   And, since you are driving C9 with DX300 w/amp11, keep DX300 LO output set to low gain to avoid damaging amp11


It is not Amp11 but amp12 for LO.  I have the volume at 100 I don't know if it should be lowered to 80 90 and the gain is High.

 If you recommend another configuration, if this could damage the amp12 ...

And another thing ... do you recommend changing the 4.4 cable that comes with the Cayin for someone else or is that good?


----------



## Ichos

Mithrandir1980 said:


> It is not Amp11 but amp12 for LO.  I have the volume at 100 I don't know if it should be lowered to 80 90 and the gain is High.
> 
> If you recommend another configuration, if this could damage the amp12 ...
> 
> And another thing ... do you recommend changing the 4.4 cable that comes with the Cayin for someone else or is that good?


You should try it with the C9 as power amp and control the volume from the DX300.


----------



## twister6

Mithrandir1980 said:


> It is not Amp11 but amp12 for LO.  I have the volume at 100 I don't know if it should be lowered to 80 90 and the gain is High.
> 
> If you recommend another configuration, if this could damage the amp12 ...
> 
> And another thing ... do you recommend changing the 4.4 cable that comes with the Cayin for someone else or is that good?



If you have amp12, then you are all good.  Amp11 LO in high gain has too high output voltage.  With amp12, even in high gain and at max volume you are not exceeding 4.1Vrms going into C9, thus you are OK.


----------



## Mithrandir1980

Any period of burning?

 Because since you can't have it plugged in and turned on at the same time, how do you do it so that it doesn't run out of battery while you burn it?


----------



## jmills8

Mithrandir1980 said:


> Any period of burning?
> 
> Because since you can't have it plugged in and turned on at the same time, how do you do it so that it doesn't run out of battery while you burn it?


No burn in , just turn it on and listen. Simple as that.


----------



## NJoyzAudio

Mithrandir1980 said:


> It is not Amp11 but amp12 for LO.  I have the volume at 100 I don't know if it should be lowered to 80 90 and the gain is High.
> 
> If you recommend another configuration, if this could damage the amp12 ...
> 
> And another thing ... do you recommend changing the 4.4 cable that comes with the Cayin for someone else or is that good?


Mithrandir1980

Sorry to jump in as I know you asked the question to Twister6 but if I may (and hopefully do not start a cable/interconnect war of words) but IMO yes changing from the stock but good 8 wire copper Cayin 4.4 to 4.4mm Interconnect to another does change the sound, and is something you can do to "tune" to your liking similar to cable rolling on headphones/IEM's (which is just as controversial on Head-Fi).
I posted my impressions earlier in this thread on Interconnects I purchased and tried and ended up with a combo that while to me it sounds excellent, it might not be another's choice, and the ROI on cable is VERY subjective and what I ended up with some may think is not worth it.
Long story short I made sure the interconnect was NOT the weak link or reason the sound had a color that made the C9 suspect, when it should not be.
As such just REALLY enjoying the C9 and now can play with confidence between Class A and AB amp and Tube and SS timbre being the only variables now.
Keeping one/two of the Interconnects I tested and the rest are up for sale, but interconnects as I said can be very subjective and polarizing in comments so what I'm passing on is IMO, and YMMV.

Hope this info helps


----------



## Mithrandir1980

I have just received an email from my official distributor to make me a refund of the set of batteries that I have ordered to replace the ones that were bad.
Now my Isabellae sound like angels ...
We will continue testing it.
Thank you very much @Andykong for all the involvement and help received!


----------



## immortalsoul

Any of you guys have or heard Fiio M17? I am trying to decide if to get C9 or M17. Thank you


----------



## jmills8

immortalsoul said:


> Any of you guys have or heard Fiio M17? I am trying to decide if to get C9 or M17. Thank you


Get both then you will know , then sell one . Later sell the other , then buy more.


----------



## twister6

jmills8 said:


> Get both then you will know , then sell one . Later sell the other , then buy more.



You mean, "... then buy N8ii"


----------



## zen87192

twister6 said:


> You mean, "... then buy N8ii"


Then Shanling M9!! 🤪


----------



## immortalsoul

I have the N8, so why not N8ii..he, he


----------



## immortalsoul

I kinda had some trials before,  bought and sold Fiio M15, Shanling M8,  Cayin N8 just to buy it again but the dap that I like the best is Acoustic Research M2


----------



## jmills8

twister6 said:


> You mean, "... then buy N8ii"


Yes


----------



## qua2k

Picked up a C9 from a fellow board member, should hopefully have it late next week. Looking forward to the LPGT pairing. I will spend the weekend getting up to speed with this thread. Looking forward to being a part of the group.


----------



## Nostoi

immortalsoul said:


> I kinda had some trials before,  bought and sold Fiio M15, Shanling M8,  Cayin N8 just to buy it again but the dap that I like the best is Acoustic Research M2


Cayin C9 will survive them all because it enhances everything it's paired with and it's highly unlikely any DAP can have an amp section as good as the C9.


----------



## immortalsoul

Nostoi said:


> Cayin C9 will survive them all because it enhances everything it's paired with and it's highly unlikely any DAP can have an amp section as good as the C9.


I also have Romi BX2+ that I like a lot that is why I am thinking of buying the C9. The reason why I asked about M17 is because it already has a powerful amplifier.  I need to mention that I tried C9 before when I had Woo Audio WA8 and at that time I liked the Woo more but since then I sold the Woo because it was kinda inconvenient as portable


----------



## armstrj2

Nostoi said:


> Cayin C9 will survive them all because it enhances everything it's paired with and it's highly unlikely any DAP can have an amp section as good as the C9.


Completely agree.


----------



## Mithrandir1980

Nostoi said:


> Cayin C9 will survive them all because it enhances everything it's paired with and it's highly unlikely any DAP can have an amp section as good as the C9.


With the C9 it sounds good even the headphones you get on trains 🤣


----------



## immortalsoul

To be fair with C9, when I tried it it was only for 30 minutes out of Cayin N6II with T01 , maybe with a different motherboard on Cayin or a different dap the result might be different


----------



## Nostoi

immortalsoul said:


> I also have Romi BX2+ that I like a lot that is why I am thinking of buying the C9. The reason why I asked about M17 is because it already has a powerful amplifier.  I need to mention that I tried C9 before when I had Woo Audio WA8 and at that time I liked the Woo more but since then I sold the Woo because it was kinda inconvenient as portable


Woo is definitely more tubey. C9 has a very clean quite refined presentation. BX2 also great, of course. M17 looks interesting but I find the THX amps fairly sterile.


----------



## Nostoi

immortalsoul said:


> To be fair with C9, when I tried it it was only for 30 minutes out of Cayin N6II with T01 , maybe with a different motherboard on Cayin or a different dap the result might be different


You really need to pair with A02 or E02. I've yet to hear a better transportable combo than C9 and A02.


----------



## immortalsoul

Yeah,  the C9 sounds more like my N8 than is why at the time when I tried it I thought that since I have the N8 I can skip the C9 but I thinking that combined with N8 to increase the sound


----------



## zen87192

Nostoi said:


> Cayin C9 will survive them all because it enhances everything it's paired with and it's highly unlikely any DAP can have an amp section as good as the C9.


Spot on!! Totally agree!!


----------



## Nostoi

immortalsoul said:


> Yeah,  the C9 sounds more like my N8 than is why at the time when I tried it I thought that since I have the N8 I can skip the C9 but I thinking that combined with N8 to increase the sound


Would be a fantastic combo, I'm sure.


----------



## immortalsoul

That is what I am hoping


----------



## qua2k

I asked this a few pages back but did not get a response... maybe there is no one out there that has the set up... but I was curious how it pairs with the LPGT/Lotoo hi-end players. Hopefully should be receiving a C9 next week.


----------



## DaYooper

qua2k said:


> I asked this a few pages back but did not get a response... maybe there is no one out there that has the set up... but I was curious how it pairs with the LPGT/Lotoo hi-end players. Hopefully should be receiving a C9 next week.


I have paired it with my LPGT-Ti many times and the pairing is sublime because the LPGT-Ti makes it that way


----------



## Andykong

immortalsoul said:


> Yeah,  the C9 sounds more like my N8 than is why at the time when I tried it I thought that since I have the N8 I can skip the C9 but I thinking that combined with N8 to increase the sound


Interested to know your setup.  T01 to C9 in single-ended or balanced?  C9 to your headphone in 3.5mm or 4.4mm?


----------



## qua2k (Dec 3, 2021)

DaYooper said:


> I have paired it with my LPGT-Ti many times and the pairing is sublime because the LPGT-Ti makes it that way


Great thank you! I have heard there are little differences between the Ti vs regular version... I know I am looking forward to the pairing! I am looking into also getting a custom 4.4 to 4.4 instead of the stock cable.... hoping FAW will be able to custom make one.


----------



## immortalsoul

Andykong said:


> Interested to know your setup.  T01 to C9 in single-ended or balanced?  C9 to your headphone in 3.5mm or 4.4mm?


T01 in balanced mode and the headphones were JH Audio Roxanne with a 4.4 Moon Audio Black Dragon cable


----------



## Andykong

immortalsoul said:


> T01 in balanced mode and the headphones were JH Audio Roxanne with a 4.4 Moon Audio Black Dragon cable


I see.  Please be reminded that 4.4mm line out of T01 Audio Motherboard is shared line out, a fixed level output after phone amplification.  The 3.5mm line out of T01 is a real deal because it is a line driver after LPF, bypassed the headphone amplification circuit.


----------



## immortalsoul

Andykong said:


> I see.  Please be reminded that 4.4mm line out of T01 Audio Motherboard is shared line out, a fixed level output after phone amplification.  The 3.5mm line out of T01 is a real deal because it is a line driver after LPF, bypassed the headphone amplification circuit.


Thank you for taking the time to write me this information. I will definitely use the 3.5 from now on from my T01 because I still enjoy this motherboard


----------



## Mithrandir1980

Would there be a problem of damaging any of the devices by using DX300 in high gain and 100% bolumen and C9 high gain and controlling the volume from the latter?


----------



## twister6

Mithrandir1980 said:


> Would there be a problem of damaging any of the devices by using DX300 in high gain and 100% bolumen and C9 high gain and controlling the volume from the latter?


What are you driving that requires so much power? In theory it should be fine as long as you use amp12. If you are using amp11 you will damage it when set to high gain LO (too high output voltage); this was reported by someone in dx300 thread who damaged his amp11 card twice doing that.


----------



## Mithrandir1980

twister6 said:


> What are you driving that requires so much power? In theory it should be fine as long as you use amp12. If you are using amp11 you will damage it when set to high gain LO (too high output voltage); this was reported by someone in dx300 thread who damaged his amp11 card twice doing that.


If it's because of LO on the Amp12 ... maybe I miss when I went to clubs and I like the forceful sound 🤣


----------



## scotty59

Today my C9 arrived. But i suspect, i may have received a fake one. First it was DIY (assembly needed). Second it came with 2 op amps (JRC4580D and MUSES01). The sound seems ok, but no word about class A or AB.

Next i will have to find good sounding alkalines.


----------



## qua2k

scotty59 said:


> Today my C9 arrived. But i suspect, i may have received a fake one. First it was DIY (assembly needed). Second it came with 2 op amps (JRC4580D and MUSES01). The sound seems ok, but no word about class A or AB.
> 
> Next i will have to find good sounding alkalines.


That is from Korg: https://www.korg.com/us/products/audio/ha_s/

Not sure what made you think this is a Cayin C9, it does not even remotely resemble it visually? I am confused.


----------



## scotty59

qua2k said:


> That is from Korg: https://www.korg.com/us/products/audio/ha_s/
> 
> Not sure what made you think this is a Cayin C9, it does not even remotely resemble it visually? I am confused.


You stepped my trap


----------



## qua2k (Dec 8, 2021)

scotty59 said:


> You stepped my trap


I had a feeling it was something like that but then i saw 'New Head Fier" so figured i would educate, never know anymore. Gj... i guess


----------



## scotty59

qua2k said:


> I had a feeling it was something like that but then i saw 'New Head Fier" so figured i would educate, never know anymore. Gj... i guess


It was a joke only. But there is a Cayin C9 on the way to my door. From user lafeuill


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Quick question. From my DAP (sp1k), will there be a difference feeding the c9 from the SE LO or the BAL LO? I intend to use the 4.4 PO from the C9.

Thanks


----------



## qua2k

scotty59 said:


> It was a joke only. But there is a Cayin C9 on the way to my door. From user lafeuill


I have one on the way as well


----------



## jmills8

scotty59 said:


> Today my C9 arrived. But i suspect, i may have received a fake one. First it was DIY (assembly needed). Second it came with 2 op amps (JRC4580D and MUSES01). The sound seems ok, but no word about class A or AB.
> 
> Next i will have to find good sounding alkalines.


Good joke , C9 for a hundred dollars.


----------



## scotty59

I ordered a nice case for my Cayin C9 and DX300Max. Not as bulky as the peli case 1170. It is only 53mm inside height. Everything fits like a glove. I am very happy with it.

If anybody is interested: TAF case 103


----------



## scotty59




----------



## qua2k

scotty59 said:


> I ordered a nice case for my Cayin C9 and DX300Max. Not as bulky as the peli case 1170. It is only 53mm inside height. Everything fits like a glove. I am very happy with it.
> 
> If anybody is interested: TAF case 103


Very nice!, i like that a lot. I have one of those larger Miter cases on order... heard good things about them.


----------



## greenmac (Dec 9, 2021)

Looks good


----------



## scotty59

greenmac said:


> Are you able to share picture with C9 and dx300 in situ ?
> 
> Thanks


Look at post #5100


----------



## qua2k

scotty59 said:


> Look at post #5100


Is there a way to order them if you are not EU based? (US based here)


----------



## scotty59

qua2k said:


> Is there a way to order them if you are not EU based? (US based here)


I am in EU, so i do not know about export. Seems only germany and austria. But in the US there must be weapon cases this size.


----------



## scotty59

I found the same TAF Case 103 on amazon.com for the US users:

Amazon weapon case


----------



## Mithrandir1980

scotty59 said:


> I found the same TAF Case 103 on amazon.com for the US users:
> 
> Amazon weapon case


Yes, but still not avalible...


----------



## scotty59

or direct from Florida:

Elephant cases


----------



## scotty59

@Mithrandir1980 one up


----------



## qua2k (Dec 10, 2021)

scotty59 said:


> I found the same TAF Case 103 on amazon.com for the US users:
> 
> Amazon weapon case


Great thanks for that, added to my list. will give it a shot if the Miter turns out to not fit the C9 with the case... dimensions of both are 80mm without the case so we will see. i have a custom Pelican for my IEM currently that is exactly like this weapons case, pretty indestructible it seems.

i just received the C9 yesterday and the LPGT pairing is pure bliss imo.


----------



## qua2k

Plug question, does anyone have a good lead on good fitting/quality silicone plugs for the 4.4/3.5mm? i have purchased 2 different sets from Chinese sellers on eBay and neither fit as well as the ones included with the old Sony ZX507 DAP.


----------



## scotty59 (Dec 10, 2021)

qua2k said:


> Great thanks for that, added to my list. will give it a shot if the Miter turns out to not fit the C9 with the case... dimensions of both are 80mm without the case so we will see. i have a custom Pelican for my IEM currently that is exactly like this weapons case, pretty indestructible it seems.
> 
> i just received the C9 yesterday and the LPGT pairing is pure bliss imo.


I think the miter case will fit. The 6 inner compartments are 80 by 80mm but you can remove the small dividers and move the long dividers a bit. That should give a snug fit with amp and dap cases. But the elephant case also holds everything in place even upside down in a backpack.


----------



## qua2k (Dec 10, 2021)

scotty59 said:


> But the elephant case also holds everything in place even upside down in a backpack.


Yes, this is what is leaning me towards that one, seems like it would fit pretty well in a laptop sleeve for ex and the snap closure a bit more secure than magnet. Miter is via Amazon so i can always return it if i need to.


----------



## scotty59 (Dec 10, 2021)

qua2k said:


> Plug question, does anyone have a good lead on good fitting/quality silicone plugs for the 4.4/3.5mm? i have purchased 2 different sets from Chinese sellers on eBay and neither fit as well as the ones included with the old Sony ZX507 DAP.


You may ask @lafeuill He sent me two 3,5mm plugs with the C9 which fit excellent.


----------



## kleimart

scotty59 said:


> You may ask @lafeuill He sent me two 3,5mm plugs with the C9 which fit excellent.


These looking very nice!


----------



## kleimart

scotty59 said:


> I ordered a nice case for my Cayin C9 and DX300Max. Not as bulky as the peli case 1170. It is only 53mm inside height. Everything fits like a glove. I am very happy with it.
> 
> If anybody is interested: TAF case 103


Are you happy with the 300Max and C9 combo?


----------



## scotty59

kleimart said:


> Are you happy with the 300Max and C9 combo?


Very much so. I am not the audiophile guy, who can pinpoint the finest changes in all the audiophile terms. I only hear music and want it to sound great in my ears. The 300Max is excellent all alone, but the C9 sometimes gives the music an extra kick. Even some really cheap cans (planars under 200€) sound really good with the C9.

Am I happy? You bet i am.


----------



## scotty59

I tested the miter case for DAPs (see amazon):





Unfortunately it is not fitting the C9 with its case by a millimeter or two in height. Without the case its a snug fit, but you can't get the C9 out of its compartment without removing the dividers. Thats a bummer, because the miter looks much nicer than the elephantcase. But i will stay with elephantcase for now. The miter case is going back.


----------



## qua2k (Dec 14, 2021)

scotty59 said:


> I tested the miter case for DAPs (see amazon):
> 
> 
> Unfortunately it is not fitting the C9 with its case by a millimeter or two in height. Without the case its a snug fit, but you can't get the C9 out of its compartment without removing the dividers. Thats a bummer, because the miter looks much nicer than the elephantcase. But i will stay with elephantcase for now. The miter case is going back.


Way ahead of me there. looks like i will be returning mine once it arrives and getting the indestructible one.. about half the price of the Miter as well.


----------



## scotty59

qua2k said:


> Way ahead of me there. looks like i will be returning mine once it arrives and getting the indestructible one.. about half the price of the Miter as well.


I think its the best idea right now. Miter has good quality, worth the price, but too small.


----------



## qua2k

scotty59 said:


> I think its the best idea right now. Miter has good quality, worth the price, but too small.


This is similar to Miter and the Van Nuys cases.. unsure of how to order it since i am US based...

https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?s...454165191&rn=bc1dd9a1c49641cf0ecd50a7374f5071


----------



## IgeNeLL

Finnaly I complete my setup after waiting for 4 months.
I choose "telescopic" ( connect one GND) shield implementation for my IC and I think it is OK now. Nightmare about connecting GND is gone now. Haha


----------



## kleimart

IgeNeLL said:


> Finnaly I complete my setup after waiting for 4 months.
> I choose "telescopic" ( connect one GND) shield implementation for my IC and I think it is OK now. Nightmare about connecting GND is gone now. Haha


Wow nice setup!


----------



## Mithrandir1980

IgeNeLL said:


> Finnaly I complete my setup after waiting for 4 months.
> I choose "telescopic" ( connect one GND) shield implementation for my IC and I think it is OK now. Nightmare about connecting GND is gone now. Haha


What is that IC wire?


----------



## qua2k (Dec 15, 2021)

i can definitely see why people want longer IC cables for the C9... unit runs rather hot, especially hot when running when the batteries are charging (obv). hot enough where i lay my LPGT to the side of it. makes a nice dual purpose hand warmer for these colder office days but yes, i will be looking into a longer IC cable... FAW likely.


----------



## IgeNeLL

qua2k said:


> i can definitely see why people want longer IC cables for the C9... unit runs rather hot, especially hot when running when the batteries are charging (obv). hot enough where i lay my LPGT to the side of it. makes a nice dual purpose hand warmer for these colder office days but yes, i will be looking into a longer IC cable... FAW likely.


haha use a mini fan as passive cooling and it will be OK.


----------



## IgeNeLL

Mithrandir1980 said:


> What is that IC wire?


Made from Nordost Odin2 Interconnect cable.


----------



## NJoyzAudio

qua2k said:


> i can definitely see why people want longer IC cables for the C9... unit runs rather hot, especially hot when running when the batteries are charging (obv). hot enough where i lay my LPGT to the side of it. makes a nice dual purpose hand warmer for these colder office days but yes, i will be looking into a longer IC cable... FAW likely.


Qua2k

Yes, most Interconnects of quality IMO are too short. 
Example, the Eletech Iliad I have (and selling because it’s short and no longer want to use it) the cable portion is just a shade over 4”, and overall length is just short of 6”.
I had several interconnects made at 12” (30.5 cm) and it’s a nice length for the cable portion of an Interconnect.
Not too long that I think it’s introducing a new variable or change in electrical resistance (changing the sound quality) due to too long of a cable, but long enough that you can position the Lotoo DAPs without having to flip the screen in the settings menu ( I use the lotoo PAW 6000, that has the same config settings as your LPGT).  Also the extra length allows you to make gentler curves when positioning, and even allows you to stand up your Lotoo DAP for easier control via the touch screen and not put extra strain on connection ends.

Having an high quality interconnect does make a difference with the C9.

Sorry this is not meant to be a plug for the different Interconnects I have up for sale, but rather wanted to just confirm to you having a longer interconnect on the C9 makes a difference of usability on the C9 with the Lotoo DAPS.


----------



## qua2k

NJoyzAudio said:


> Qua2k
> 
> Yes, most Interconnects of quality IMO are too short.
> Example, the Eletech Iliad I have (and selling because it’s short and no longer want to use it) the cable portion is just a shade over 4”, and overall length is just short of 6”.
> ...


Yes I certainly agree with you there. I have flipped the screen on my LPGT for easier navigation but do agree also that longer than 6" is preferable for exactly those reasons you mentioned. I love FAW and will likely get a IC made by Matt soon.


----------



## ihyan2

Just got a gently used C9 today. Loving it!! Paired with HiBy RS6 & Audeze Euclid. Considering getting the Audeze LCDi4 as well. 

Gonna be using it more of a compact bedside/desktop amp to drive my iems, headphone wise I do have my decade old AKG 601 Pro & Alessandros.

My main big headphone system is Estat - HifiMan Shangri-La Jr


----------



## lafeuill

qua2k said:


> i can definitely see why people want longer IC cables for the C9... unit runs rather hot, especially hot when running when the batteries are charging (obv). hot enough where i lay my LPGT to the side of it. makes a nice dual purpose hand warmer for these colder office days but yes, i will be looking into a longer IC cable... FAW likely.


The Totem IC is excellent but short indeed. Here's how I used my setup, with a tall smartphone stand.






Convenient, smaller footprint on the desk and optimized for cooling.


----------



## Nostoi

qua2k said:


> i can definitely see why people want longer IC cables for the C9... unit runs rather hot, especially hot when running when the batteries are charging (obv). hot enough where i lay my LPGT to the side of it. makes a nice dual purpose hand warmer for these colder office days but yes, i will be looking into a longer IC cable... FAW likely.


I'm getting in a FAW Noir IC with 4.4mm Furutech plugs each end probably next week, so can let you know how it pairs. I also recommend Plussound. Christian there will do you an IC at any length you want. Excuse the phone photo, but you get the idea:


----------



## NJoyzAudio

Nostoi said:


> I'm getting in a FAW Noir IC with 4.4mm Furutech plugs each end probably next week, so can let you know how it pairs. I also recommend Plussound. Christian there will do you an IC at any length you want. Excuse the phone photo, but you get the idea:


Nostoi

Can definitely recommend Christian @ PlusSound, as that is who I worked with to make my longer IC's.
I've always got really good and to the point recommendations from Christian, and built my 2 X8 8 wires IC's mixing cable types, and at least for me and IMO, was well worth the cost as I'm really hearing a difference from the various Interconnects I tried.  I have a post earlier in this (Cayin C9 thread) going over the various IC's I tried and what I landed at from PlusSound, and maybe not something everyone will end with, I'm very happy with the results

My current setup when using the C9


----------



## Nostoi

NJoyzAudio said:


> Nostoi
> 
> Can definitely recommend Christian @ PlusSound, as that is who I worked with to make my longer IC's.
> I've always got really good and to the point recommendations from Christian, and built my 2 X8 8 wires IC's mixing cable types, and at least for me and IMO, was well worth the cost as I'm really hearing a difference from the various Interconnects I tried.  I have a post earlier in this (Cayin C9 thread) going over the various IC's I tried and what I landed at from PlusSound, and maybe not something everyone will end with, I'm very happy with the results
> ...


Nice. Looks like we're both using same cables - X8 silver plated copper? Christian is great, indeed. His cables sound spectacular - not overly coloured but very refined - and they're probably the most aesthetically pleasing ones out there.


----------



## NJoyzAudio

Nostoi said:


> Nice. Looks like we're both using same cables - X8 silver plated copper? Christian is great, indeed. His cables sound spectacular - not overly coloured but very refined - and they're probably the most aesthetically pleasing ones out there.


Nostoi

Actually, selling a X8 cable I had Christian make that was 4 wires of Silver Platted Copper + 4 wires of Silver and Gold alloy.  I really enjoyed the sound signature, but then the wild side took over and I discussed a X8 cable using 4 wires of Tri-Silver (silver, silver gold alloy and Palladium Platted silver in each wire) + 4 wires of the Palladium Platted Hybrid (Palladium Platted Copper and Palladium Platted Silver in the same wire) with Christian and that is the cable I've settled on as my go to with the C9. that is what was in the attached photo.
Terminated both cables with Christian's really nice Rhodium Platted 4.4mm Balanced connectors and the sound quality that came out of the C9 was just really enjoyable. The later cable really extended the sound stage front to back as well as side to side.

Agree with the aesthetics of the PlusSound cable, and the build quality has just been rock solid.
Probably spent more than I should have but during the Covid Lockdown, it was my welcomed escape...

Cheers!


----------



## 111MilesToGo

Nostoi said:


> I'm getting in a FAW Noir IC with 4.4mm Furutech plugs each end probably next week, so can let you know how it pairs. I also recommend Plussound. Christian there will do you an IC at any length you want. Excuse the phone photo, but you get the idea:


+1. Yes, please let us us about the Forza Audio Works cable, shopping and delivery experience. It is one of the few custom cable makers in Europe, not much choice here, in particular not in Germany.


----------



## scotty59

This is a nice IC cable from a small manufacturer in germany. Length 26 cm (cable only). 8 x 63 core OFHC silver plated. Highly flexible and long enough. Very good sounding.


----------



## 111MilesToGo

scotty59 said:


> This is a nice IC cable from a small manufacturer in germany. Length 26 cm (cable only). 8 x 63 core OFHC silver plated. Highly flexible and long enough. Very good sounding.


Would you share the name, please? Thanks.


----------



## scotty59

111MilesToGo said:


> Would you share the name, please? Thanks.


Sure. It is Rotmann's Cables (slawa.k@freenet.de) or on ebay.de (rotmanns.cables)


----------



## qua2k

IgeNeLL said:


> haha use a mini fan as passive cooling and it will be OK.


bought one of these mini internal fan's to use as a usb/desktop for air cooling. does a decent amount of air movement that doesnt hit my hands 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071W93333


----------



## Mithrandir1980 (Dec 21, 2021)

When you charge the batteries in the external charger, what amperage do you select?

 If I charge to 2.0A will it damage the batteries or better to charge it slowly to 0.5A?


----------



## armstrj2

Mithrandir1980 said:


> When you charge the batteries in the external charger, what amperage do you select?
> 
> If I charge to 2.0A will it damage the batteries or better to charge it slowly to 0.5A?


I think chargers like these usually automatically select the amperage based on the battery's capacity. When you turn it on first what does it set to?


----------



## Ufanco

I think charging wise it’s best with multi battery to use the same set of 4 and always charge and discharge as a matched sets. There’s a lot of Counterfeit and rewraps batteries of this type since there also widely used in vaporize. I would avoid buying batteries on amazon.
Definitely do some research on these type of batteries and buy from somewhere you trust. 
I have used https://www.imrbatteries.com/ in the past.


----------



## scotty59 (Dec 23, 2021)

I think, i have found my dream combo at last:

Ibasso DX300Max
Rotland IC Connect cable
Cayin C9
Tripowin 4,4mm balanced
Audeze iSine 20

(please excuse the dust )


----------



## Andykong

scotty59 said:


> I think, i have found my dream combo at last:
> 
> Ibasso DX300Max
> Rotland IC Connect cable
> ...



In HeadFi, End Game is a short-term status.  it can be a week, or a month, or a year.  However, in this particular case, if his statement last for 1 week, it will be equivalent to 1 month or 1 year already.   

Shall we suggest some planar IEM options to Scotty?  Maybe we can encourage him to break his endgame before end of 2021? 

Let me throw the first punch:

Audeze Euclid


----------



## scotty59

Andykong said:


> In HeadFi, End Game is a short-term status.  it can be a week, or a month, or a year.  However, in this particular case, if his statement last for 1 week, it will be equivalent to 1 month or 1 year already.
> 
> Shall we suggest some planar IEM options to Scotty?  Maybe we can encourage him to break his endgame before end of 2021?
> 
> ...


No, i have an Over-Ear Planar already. But the ease of wearing the iSine 20 and the sound coming out of them, that is my (personell) end-game for now, this year and the next, as long as it lasts.

End-game is such a nasty word. Maybe the DAP or the AMP may change, but why the IEMs, when you found the right ones.


----------



## ctaxxxx

scotty59 said:


>


Where did you purchase the little rack? I just recently got the C9 to pair with my DX300, and I'm interested in something similar. Having trouble finding such things on Amazon.


----------



## Mithrandir1980 (Dec 23, 2021)

ctaxxxx said:


> Where did you purchase the little rack? I just recently got the C9 to pair with my DX300, and I'm interested in something similar. Having trouble finding such things on Amazon.


Amazon Japan I have got one too.
Amazon Rack


----------



## scotty59 (Dec 23, 2021)

ctaxxxx said:


> Where did you purchase the little rack? I just recently got the C9 to pair with my DX300, and I'm interested in something similar. Having trouble finding such things on Amazon.


I found it on aliexpress.

Aliexpress

There are other dimensions available. Look for "acrylic rack"


----------



## NJoyzAudio

ctaxxxx said:


> Where did you purchase the little rack? I just recently got the C9 to pair with my DX300, and I'm interested in something similar. Having trouble finding such things on Amazon.


ctaxxxx

Amazon Japan as noted above.
But since you too are in the US, and want IF you want to avoid the international shipping and such, I found the same rack at APOS Audio in CA, online
https://apos.audio/products/topping-acrylic-rack?_pos=1&_sid=c178eba91&_ss=r
Have only purchased the rack from them, and nothing else, but the transaction for the rack was pretty painless.
Enjoy using it with my C9 and Lotoo PAW 6K
Hope this helps


----------



## ctaxxxx

NJoyzAudio said:


> ctaxxxx
> 
> Amazon Japan as noted above.
> But since you too are in the US, and want IF you want to avoid the international shipping and such, I found the same rack at APOS Audio in CA, online
> ...


That's perfect! I just placed an order. Thanks everyone!


----------



## zen87192

Merry Christmas Everyone! 🎅 
Wishing you all Happy Holidays and hoping Santa brought you all you needed for Happy Listening 🎶  
Enjoy 🎄


----------



## soundblast75

Just discovered an issue with C9, I’ve always used it balanced to balanced, but when i tried 3.5 from dx240, it gives channel imbalance if listening from balanced headphones, its ok if i listen via 3.5, but as soon as i cross unbalanced signal with balanced cans left channel dips.
Anyone experienced this?


----------



## jlemaster1957 (Dec 27, 2021)

Hello friends
I am considering to purchase C9. I have a particular use case and would love the advise of those who have been posting but especially @bluestorm1992, @Whitigir and @Andykong. I read the first 284 pages of this thread and my question was not asked in them- if it has been asked in the last 50 pages pls forgive me and point me to that post.

I own R8 and will plan to separately charge R8 and C9, never at the same time. I am interested to stream Roon via the signal chain hooked up like this; Google Wifi point (dc powered by its own adapter) -> RJ45 to Sonore MicroRendu, DC powered by LPS 1.2 (7 V input, 1 Amp) —> R8 via USB data (acting as a DAC not charging)—> 4.4 LO balanced to line in C9 —> iems via C9  3.5 mm or 4.4 mm PO ports.

Is there danger of triggering protective mode of C9 and damaging R8 because R8 is connected by USB (for data not charging) to the Sonore MicroRendu that is itself powered by DC current?


----------



## jlemaster1957

Here is my second use case for C9:
Google Wifi point (dc powered by its own adapter) -> RJ45 to Sonore MicroRendu (DC powered by LPS 1.2 (7 V input, 1 Amp) —> USB data input only to iFi micro i DSD (this device is NOT charging when playing) —> RCA R and L line out SE via dual RCA (male) to 3.5 mm (male) adapter —> SE 3.5 mm line in to C9 —> iems out either 3.5 mm SE or 4.4 mm PO ports. 

Similar to my other use case, Is there danger of triggering protective mode of C9 and damaging Ifi micro IDSD because iDSD is connected by USB (for data not charging) to the Sonore MicroRendu that is itself powered by DC current?


----------



## jlemaster1957 (Dec 26, 2021)

Final use case
What about connecting a (DC) powered DAC -say an IFI Zen Dac V2 - to the C9. ZenDac V2 has a balanced 4.4 mm dedicated line out. What if I connect that LO via a non grounded 4.4 MM IC cable to 4.4 mm line in of C9 —is the fact that Zen DAC is a powered Dac a danger to activate the protective mode of C9 and short/damage the powered DAC?

Any difference if I connect the Zen DAC V2 via dual RCA to 3.5 mm SE adapter (acting as a DAC) to 3.5 mm line in of C9?

Thanks in advance for ANY AND ALL advice.


----------



## Andykong

Headfonics named our C9 as Best Portable Amplifier 2021.  We are grateful that our product is well recognised by reviewers and users.

Marcus described the Cayin C9 as our _"most refined version yet of their DOA and timbre technology inside their portable audio gear. Not only that, but it also revitalizes tubes on the go, a traditional niche in our hobby that seems to be forgotten in the head-long rush to find that one DAP on steroids."_
Announcement of Headfonics *Top Gear Awards for 2021*

Check out Headfonic's *C9 full review* if you want to find out more detail.


----------



## zen87192

Congratulations! A well deserved award as I can also conclude that the C9 is an amazing Portable Amplifier that can be matched with many DAPs producing outstanding results. Many Congratulations again to you.  Keep up the fantastic work that you all do!


----------



## NJoyzAudio

Andykong said:


> Headfonics named our C9 as Best Portable Amplifier 2021.  We are grateful that our product is well recognised by reviewers and users.
> 
> Marcus described the Cayin C9 as our _"most refined version yet of their DOA and timbre technology inside their portable audio gear. Not only that, but it also revitalizes tubes on the go, a traditional niche in our hobby that seems to be forgotten in the head-long rush to find that one DAP on steroids."_
> Announcement of Headfonics *Top Gear Awards for 2021*
> ...


@andykang

Congratulations to you and the C9 team and Cayin!
But lots of credit to you Andy for being responsive and transparent here.  Can't speak for all C9 owners, but following your posts and information here helped and confirmed to me, getting a C9 should be in my arsenal of audio gear.  Have been enjoying since.
Thank you!


----------



## ctaxxxx

NJoyzAudio said:


> ctaxxxx
> 
> Amazon Japan as noted above.
> But since you too are in the US, and want IF you want to avoid the international shipping and such, I found the same rack at APOS Audio in CA, online
> ...





scotty59 said:


> I found it on aliexpress.
> 
> Aliexpress
> 
> There are other dimensions available. Look for "acrylic rack"


Is the stock interconnect too short for the rack? Was looking to buy a better interconnect, but not sure if I need to order a custom length.

Penon Totem seems too short, but the Eletech ones seem to be the same length as the stock?


----------



## scotty59

ctaxxxx said:


> Is the stock interconnect too short for the rack? Was looking to buy a better interconnect, but not sure if I need to order a custom length.
> 
> Penon Totem seems too short, but the Eletech ones seem to be the same length as the stock?


The stock IC cable length is ok for the rack. And yes the Penon is very short.


----------



## NJoyzAudio

ctaxxxx said:


> Is the stock interconnect too short for the rack? Was looking to buy a better interconnect, but not sure if I need to order a custom length.
> 
> Penon Totem seems too short, but the Eletech ones seem to be the same length as the stock?


ctaxxxx

The Stock and Eletech Interconnects might be OK depending on where you place your DAP/Source. IMO.
Because my Lotoo PAW 6K allows the C9 to be placed into a true amp only mode (Pre In), with volume control coming from the PAW 6K (IE using the PAW to control volume, instead of using the volume knob on the C9). While the Stock and Eletech Interconnects when using the Acrylic rack allowed me to stand the dap and use the DAP's functions, it did not allow me to have it side by side without having to flip the UI. 

I've had longer IC's made, so I would not have to use the screen flip function (turn the UI 180') 
To give me the most flexibilty (standing the DAP, or place it on the side of the C9 or stacking on top of, when not using the rack) I sought the advice of cable makers and found going to a 12" long Interconnect should not change the signals, or would have minimal change to the sound quality/timbre.  
Having the extra length gave me more options including placing the DAP on another shelf when not needing to adjust the volume/track being played.
But it is personal choice, and there is cost in doing interconnects that are NOT off the shelf in length.

But this is all personal choice, and yes you can use the Eletech or Stock Interconnects as is but I can definitely recommend longer interconnects for more options and ease of use.
From what others have said (I have not had a chance to try the Penon Interconnects) they are shorter than the Interconnects that come with the C9, and to me that would be too short for how I use the C9 with my DAP or other source hardware.

Hope this information helps, but YMMV depending on how you use the C9 in regards to your source HW.


----------



## ctaxxxx

NJoyzAudio said:


> ctaxxxx
> 
> The Stock and Eletech Interconnects might be OK depending on where you place your DAP/Source. IMO.
> Because my Lotoo PAW 6K allows the C9 to be placed into a true amp only mode (Pre In), with volume control coming from the PAW 6K (IE using the PAW to control volume, instead of using the volume knob on the C9). While the Stock and Eletech Interconnects when using the Acrylic rack allowed me to stand the dap and use the DAP's functions, it did not allow me to have it side by side without having to flip the UI.
> ...


Thanks! I managed to find the ifi 4.4mm interconnect both in stock and on sale (it was sold out everywhere else...). These are almost 12in according to the specs, so I should have more than enough room.


----------



## NJoyzAudio

ctaxxxx said:


> Thanks! I managed to find the ifi 4.4mm interconnect both in stock and on sale (it was sold out everywhere else...). These are almost 12in according to the specs, so I should have more than enough room.


Ctaxxxx::
I'm glad you found the IC you were looking for
I did try a friends ifi silver 4.4mm to 4.4mm Interconnect cable when I did my write up, and not knowing how much burn in it already had did not include in my personal testing, 
But I did include some impressions in my Interconnect "write up" earlier in this C9 thread
IF like myself, changing the interconnect led to a lot of continued testing/auditioning as changing the Interconnect did have quite a bit of influence on the final sound and timbre
I will fully admit, most would have stopped long before the level I went to with Interconnect cable make up, but I can tell you for me it was well worth the change in Sound Quality and Timbre.

I hope you find the sound signature your chasing!


----------



## Chianti (Dec 29, 2021)

I received my Ifi ieMatch 4.4mm today (Amazon.com finally got some stock) -- would highly recommend purchase to all fellow Cayin C9 owners:
Driving the C9 from my AK SP2000, the ieMatch resolves "thin" tonality with Oriolus Traillii and provides better range on the volume dial.
Currently enjoying C9 in pre-amp mode/low gain/tube/class AB, SP2k at volume 66, ieMatch "high" (not ultra) -- listening to Genesis "I can't Dance" remaster, Apple Music lossless (APK on SP2k). Peter Gabriel's "In Your Eyes" has the same weight and corpus as with my full sized cans. Imaging is very precise and lateral extension of the stage is quite satisfactory.


----------



## Andykong

Chianti said:


> I received my Ifi ieMatch 4.4mm today (Amazon.com finally got some stock) -- would highly recommend purchase to all fellow Cayin C9 owners:
> Driving the C9 from my AK SP2000, the ieMatch resolves "thin" tonality with Oriolus Traillii and provides better range on the volume dial.
> Currently enjoying C9 in pre-amp mode/low gain/tube/class AB, SP2k at volume 66, ieMatch "high" (not ultra) -- listening to Genesis "I can't Dance" remaster, Apple Music lossless (APK on SP2k). Peter Gabriel's "In Your Eyes" has the same weight and corpus as with my full sized cans. Imaging is very precise and lateral extension of the stage is quite satisfactory.



Where did  you apply the ieMatch 4.4mm? At the 4.4mm ouptut of C9 or 4.4mm input of C9?  I assume  you are using it in the output but I guess a little clarification won't harm.


----------



## raylu

Guys I'm selling my Brise audio YATONO le interconnect cable for AK(2.5mm 3.5mm to 4.4mm) in a really good price, pm if you are interested  its a really good interconnect cable to pair up, dark background and smooth mid-bass really a great fit for c9


----------



## caustic386

Sorry if it's already in this thread, it's grown quite long.  Has anyone found independent bench tests showing power vs distortion at full output?  Ty


----------



## Chianti

Andykong said:


> Where did  you apply the ieMatch 4.4mm? At the 4.4mm ouptut of C9 or 4.4mm input of C9?  I assume  you are using it in the output but I guess a little clarification won't harm.


Using it on the output of the C9


----------



## zen87192

🎉 Wishing all my fellow Head-Fi’ers a very Happy New Year! May 2022 bring all of you ongoing Good Health, Good Fortune and very Happy Listening Sessions! Stay safe and watch those listening volumes 🎧 🔊 Wishing each and everyone of you all the very best for 2022! 🎉


----------



## Spawn300Z

I was hoping someone has done this already.  I wanted to get a case that will hold my Cayin C9, Chord Mojo and a set of Headphones (usually carry the Diana V2).  But i also would like it to fit into my carry on bag.  Please let me know if you have any ideas.

Thanks


----------



## jlemaster1957 (Jan 2, 2022)

jlemaster1957 said:


> Hello friends
> I am considering to purchase C9. I have a particular use case and would love the advise of those who have been posting but especially @bluestorm1992, @Whitigir and @Andykong. I read the first 284 pages of this thread and my question was not asked in them- if it has been asked in the last 50 pages pls forgive me and point me to that post.
> 
> I own R8 and will plan to separately charge R8 and C9, never at the same time. I am interested to stream Roon via the signal chain hooked up like this; Google Wifi point (dc powered by its own adapter) -> RJ45 to Sonore MicroRendu, DC powered by LPS 1.2 (7 V input, 1 Amp) —> R8 via USB data (acting as a DAC not charging)—> 4.4 LO balanced to line in C9 —> iems via C9  3.5 mm or 4.4 mm PO ports.
> ...


I posted this about 2 weeks ago and received no response from anyone on this thread. I did receive a response from Musicteck that sells the C9, that each of my 3 use cases, as they involve a DC power source to a streaming device or DAC, could trigger the C9 protective response and so C9 would not work properly with them. This suggests - and I posit that it is the case- that the C9 should only be operated with other battery powered devices ( many posts have noted the risk of a short circuit if either the C9 or the source is charging while the two are connected, but it was not clear to me what would happen if the source was itself a DC powered DAC or a battery powered source was connected by USB (for audio) to an upstream DC powered streamer - it seems that this is not safe and should not be done). If this is incorrect, Cayin /electrical engineers pls correct me- certainly I will now NOT purchase one as my use case will not — as I understand it — will not be safe for my sources.


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## qua2k (Jan 3, 2022)

jlemaster1957 said:


> I posted this about 2 weeks ago and received no response from anyone on this thread. I did receive a response from Musicteck that sells the C9, that each of my 3 use cases, as they involve a DC power source to a streaming device or DAC, could trigger the C9 protective response and so C9 would not work properly with them. This suggests - and I posit that it is the case- that the C9 should only be operated with other battery powered devices ( many posts have noted the risk of a short circuit if either the C9 or the source is charging while the two are connected, but it was not clear to me what would happen if the source was itself a DC powered DAC or a battery powered source was connected by USB (for audio) to an upstream DC powered streamer - it seems that this is not safe and should not be done). If this is incorrect, Cayin /electrical engineers pls correct me- certainly I will now NOT purchase one as my use case will not — as I understand it — will not be safe for my sources.


To add to the conversation, I have used my C9 only with 1 source, LPGT. With using these two, I have used them with the C9 being charged, the LPGT not... the C9 being charged and the LPGT in DAC computer mode via USB (this also charges the LPGT at the same time)... also not charged while the LPGT is in DAC computer mode and also both not being charged. I have had zero issues with all cases. Sounds like I should stop having the LPGT charging while using the C9, would hate to damage either?

Would like to hear other experiences or input @Andykong


----------



## NJoyzAudio

qua2k said:


> To add to the conversation, I have used my C9 only with 1 source, LPGT. With using these two, I have used them with the C9 being charged, the LPGT not... the C9 being charged and the LPGT in DAC computer mode via USB (this also charges the LPGT at the same time)... also not charged while the LPGT is in DAC computer mode and also both not being charged. I have had zero issues with all cases. Sounds like I should stop having the LPGT charging while using the C9, would hate to damage either?
> 
> Would like to hear other experiences or input @Andykong





jlemaster1957 said:


> I posted this about 2 weeks ago and received no response from anyone on this thread. I did receive a response from Musicteck that sells the C9, that each of my 3 use cases, as they involve a DC power source to a streaming device or DAC, could trigger the C9 protective response and so C9 would not work properly with them. This suggests - and I posit that it is the case- that the C9 should only be operated with other battery powered devices ( many posts have noted the risk of a short circuit if either the C9 or the source is charging while the two are connected, but it was not clear to me what would happen if the source was itself a DC powered DAC or a battery powered source was connected by USB (for audio) to an upstream DC powered streamer - it seems that this is not safe and should not be done). If this is incorrect, Cayin /electrical engineers pls correct me- certainly I will now NOT purchase one as my use case will not — as I understand it — will not be safe for my sources.


Jiemaster1957 and Qua2k

Don't know if this helps but on this Forum for the C9 around March of 2021, @Andykong had left a lot of information on when the C9 can be connected and when it can't be, to devices that are charging.
From his comments during that time, I would not say it's a design defect, and more of a design decision to not introduce electrical distortion to the sound, and Andy did leave a lot of information on this forum/the site.
I could only find this link for now (and I do not want to speak for anyone who should be responding to your question), but if it helps you, there was a pretty long running thread and will leave it for @Andykong to reply with the correct answer, but if it helps, this is around when the thread of charging was discussed
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...dphone-amplifier.943135/page-48#post-16152883

If this helps also, in the Orient the time leading up to New Years is when many take off of work, and are with family.
New Years is a bigger holiday there than our combined Thanksgiving and Christmas Break, and I know on other theads here on Head-Fi I'm on several where responders have apologized for not responding sooner because of this.
Not making any excuses for anyone, just putting that fact out there, as usually people are VERY quick to respond here on head-fi, but the holidays have all seemed to have put people behind the 8ball in responding.

Again would wait for @ AndyKong to reply, but maybe the link above will help you


----------



## jlemaster1957 (Jan 3, 2022)

NJoyzAudio said:


> Jiemaster1957 and Qua2k
> 
> Don't know if this helps but on this Forum for the C9 around March of 2021, @Andykong had left a lot of information on when the C9 can be connected and when it can't be, to devices that are charging.
> From his comments during that time, I would not say it's a design defect, and more of a design decision to not introduce electrical distortion to the sound, and Andy did leave a lot of information on this forum/the site.
> ...


Unfortunately the link provided does not address the issue. It addresses various situations which occur during charging of the C9 while playing, in which the C9 protective mode is invoked. I had read these posts. In most cases already addressed in this thread, the issue is that C9 is being charged WHILE the source is also being charged.  The difference in the use cases under consideration here is that the C9 is not being charged, nor is there any directed connection to the C9 charging circuit/USB. The only connection to the C9 is via Line in or Phone in. It is the SOURCE that is connected to DC current (in the case of a powered DAC) OR the streamer upstream from the source (in the case of a DC powered streamer connected to stream audio to the source when the source is not being charged). In none of the use cases is C9 being charged. It would seem from Qua2K's experience, that my use cases will NOT provoke the C9 protective mode, but this needs to be answered directly and clearly by @Andykong or from someone else at Cayin before -I myself- would dare to purchase a C9.

BTW (just to be clear) when I write "DC powered" above, I mean "a DC current supplied to a unit by an AC powered powerblock" of some sort- not via a 12 V battery though (imo) that probably would not matter, except that the amount of voltage supplied to the DC powered unit could vary. In the case of the Sonore MicroRendu streamer, it is 7V at continuous 1 A (so 7W input). I think iFi Zen Dac V2 uses a 5V input @ 2 A (so 10W). At any rate, it seems these voltages would be enough to trigger the C9 protective mode if a short occurred- but that is the question.


----------



## alavenue

Hello everyone!

I'm selling a Cayin C9, please let me know if you are interested 

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds...headphone-amplifier-cayin-leather-case.17212/


----------



## Andykong

jlemaster1957 said:


> I posted this about 2 weeks ago and received no response from anyone on this thread. I did receive a response from Musicteck that sells the C9, that each of my 3 use cases, as they involve a DC power source to a streaming device or DAC, could trigger the C9 protective response and so C9 would not work properly with them. This suggests - and I posit that it is the case- that the C9 should only be operated with other battery powered devices ( many posts have noted the risk of a short circuit if either the C9 or the source is charging while the two are connected, but it was not clear to me what would happen if the source was itself a DC powered DAC or a battery powered source was connected by USB (for audio) to an upstream DC powered streamer - it seems that this is not safe and should not be done). If this is incorrect, Cayin /electrical engineers pls correct me- certainly I will now NOT purchase one as my use case will not — as I understand it — will not be safe for my sources.



MusicTeck is correct, the setup will trigger C9 protective mechanism, we do not recommend this setup for C9.  In fact, MusicTeck has consulted our engineers before they confirm with you.  The topic were dicussed internally, and finally we decided local dealer is the best feedback channel for very specific setup, instead of handle this as a public discussion, that's why I did't response to your question. 

To certain extend, my participation in public forum should remain at product level explanation.  I am not suppose to handle inquiry or service support at personal level.  This will cause unnecessary interrup to local dealers, or become a worldwide bottleneck accidentially.


----------



## jlemaster1957 (Jan 4, 2022)

Andykong said:


> MusicTeck is correct, the setup will trigger C9 protective mechanism, we do not recommend this setup for C9.  In fact, MusicTeck has consulted our engineers before they confirm with you.  The topic were dicussed internally, and finally we decided local dealer is the best feedback channel for very specific setup, instead of handle this as a public discussion, that's why I did't response to your question.
> 
> To certain extend, my participation in public forum should remain at product level explanation.  I am not suppose to handle inquiry or service support at personal level.  This will cause unnecessary interrup to local dealers, or become a worldwide bottleneck accidentially.


Thanks for your response. I was satisfied with the service and advice I received from Musicteck, and thank you for consulting with them; however, I brought these use cases to the public forum because imo other potential users with similar use cases may be considering to purchase C9 and need to be warned that it will not work well for them either. The point is: C9 should not be used while connected upstream to “live” DC powered devices.At least - users should consult their dealer or service provider for this kind of use case before purchasing and/or with the intent to use it that way.


----------



## ssriram2791

@Andykong 

I typically have Cayin C9 and all my DAPs disconnected from power sources when they are working in tandem. 

I use Roon from my Windows laptop and based on comments I am seeing above, I just want to re-confirm what works and what does not

WINDOWS 10 LAPTOP --> CAYIN N8 (USB-DAC) --> CAYIN C9  *Yes or No ?*

WINDOWS 10 LAPTOP --> CAYIN N6ii A02 (USB DAC) --> CAYIN C9* Yes or No ?*

From what I understand, if we are connected to laptop in USB-DAC mode, the laptop should not be charging the device (in this case the DAP) while it is connected to Cayin C9 *Yes or No ?*

I love all my Cayin stuff and cannot afford to lose any of them.


----------



## ihyan2

Highly enjoying this setup whilst I do work - from home.


----------



## dadracer2

Just took delivery of my C9 this afternoon and have had a short listen via my N6ii with A02 module. So far and despite no burn in time it is a remarkable result. I thought the N6ii with R01 module was amazing but this now adds scale which I normally only expect from my main system. The bass in particular seems more thunderous and the imaging is wider and deeper. I will have more of play with different settings and music later and see what that brings. Huzzah!


----------



## zen87192

Sometimes one just cannot beat adding a C9 to a DAP with L.O. Never ceases to amaze me even with todays MAX300 or M17 etc.. C9 with N6ii/A02 was always a match made in heaven.


----------



## Nostoi

zen87192 said:


> Sometimes one just cannot beat adding a C9 to a DAP with L.O. Never ceases to amaze me even with todays MAX300 or M17 etc.. C9 with N6ii/A02 was always a match made in heaven.


100% - A02/C9. Pure synergy distilled in a (trans)portable format.


----------



## dadracer2

I guess that part of it is you are separating the digital and the analogue components which I think can be quite beneficial. Most of all though the C9 appears to offer a top quality full size headphone amp in a portable format (despite having valves) which is a big sound upgrade. The sound of different dacs is less of factor in deciding the overall sound quality result than the amp to my ear at least.


----------



## Tristy (Jan 6, 2022)

I've just ordered a C9 and plan to use it mostly with the Hugo 2 and occasionally with the SE200 via 4.4 balanced PW audio adapter and included interconnect. I have a 3.5mm reference 8 interconnect here to pair with the Hugo 2 but is there any consensus on which interconnect works well with the C9 / Hugo 2? Also, I have read mixed things regarding sources and DAC's connected to a DC while the C9 is running off of batteries, are there users that are using this setup without triggering the C9's safety mechanisms? I always run my Hugo 2 in desktop mode.

Can't wait to hear how EXT, Odin and Z1R react to the C9!

EDIT - Just seen @Andykong response above.... a bit of a bummer.


----------



## Nostoi

Tristy said:


> I've just ordered a C9 and plan to use it mostly with the Hugo 2 and occasionally with the SE200 via 4.4 balanced PW audio adapter and included interconnect. I have a 3.5mm reference 8 interconnect here to pair with the Hugo 2 but is there any consensus on which interconnect works well with the C9 / Hugo 2? Also, I have read mixed things regarding sources and DAC's connected to a DC while the C9 is running off of batteries, are there users that are using this setup without triggering the C9's safety mechanisms? I always run my Hugo 2 in desktop mode.
> 
> Can't wait to hear how EXT, Odin and Z1R react to the C9!


I had the Hugo 2/C9 combo for a while - another beautiful pairing - also with the same ALO Ref 8 interconnect (and also via a Plussound 3.5mm IC). No problems running from DC/battery or on occasion from an RCA to 3.5mm cable. All good, though if you have the Hugo 2 in desktop mode, then I'd leave the C9 unplugged (this is how I use it with my TT2).


----------



## Tristy

Nostoi said:


> I had the Hugo 2/C9 combo for a while - another beautiful pairing - also with the same ALO Ref 8 interconnect (and also via a Plussound 3.5mm IC). No problems running from DC/battery or on occasion from an RCA to 3.5mm cable. All good, though if you have the Hugo 2 in desktop mode, then I'd leave the C9 unplugged (this is how I use it with my TT2).


Great news! Thanks for the response. I plan on keeping the Hugo 2 in desktop mode to preserve battery and using the C9's battery. When it comes time to charge I'll just listen the the Hugo 2 alone. Did you compare the Ref 8 interconnect against the supplier 3.5mm and if so, did you hear any improvement?


----------



## armstrj2

Tristy said:


> I've just ordered a C9 and plan to use it mostly with the Hugo 2 and occasionally with the SE200 via 4.4 balanced PW audio adapter and included interconnect. I have a 3.5mm reference 8 interconnect here to pair with the Hugo 2 but is there any consensus on which interconnect works well with the C9 / Hugo 2? Also, I have read mixed things regarding sources and DAC's connected to a DC while the C9 is running off of batteries, are there users that are using this setup without triggering the C9's safety mechanisms? I always run my Hugo 2 in desktop mode.
> 
> Can't wait to hear how EXT, Odin and Z1R react to the C9!
> 
> EDIT - Just seen @Andykong response above.... a bit of a bummer.


I haven't followed exactly what people were asking above but I did read through the whole thread when I bought my C9. 

I'm not sure if this helps you, but my take from reading the thread was not to charge the C9 and your connected DAP from the same power brick/ charger. 

I never charge my C9 while using it. I often charge my DAP while in use with the C9 though. I bought a second set of batteries for the C9 which I can swap in but in truth the only time I have ever need to use them is if I'm listening to something in Class A & Tube for a prolonged period as this kills the battery quickly. 

For Solid State and Class AB use the battery lasts longer than any of my listening sessions so I just plug it into charge once finished. 

Hope that helps.


----------



## Tristy

armstrj2 said:


> I haven't followed exactly what people were asking above but I did read through the whole thread when I bought my C9.
> 
> I'm not sure if this helps you, but my take from reading the thread was not to charge the C9 and your connected DAP from the same power brick/ charger.
> 
> ...


Great, thanks for your input! I figure I'll be using Class A and Tubes mostly so it might be worth investing in another battery pack. I will just be extremely weary when using C9 and ensure that I don't have it charging while using a DC connected source.... Hopefully this will save me from any unpleasantries.


----------



## Nostoi

Tristy said:


> Great news! Thanks for the response. I plan on keeping the Hugo 2 in desktop mode to preserve battery and using the C9's battery. When it comes time to charge I'll just listen the the Hugo 2 alone. Did you compare the Ref 8 interconnect against the supplier 3.5mm and if so, did you hear any improvement?


To be honest, I've never used the stock Cayin ICs because I already had 3rd party cables that match my headphone cables. But, as ever, people hear a wide range of things on varying interconnects and cables, and only you can decide if there's a difference.


----------



## armstrj2 (Jan 6, 2022)

Tristy said:


> Great, thanks for your input! I figure I'll be using Class A and Tubes mostly so it might be worth investing in another battery pack. I will just be extremely weary when using C9 and ensure that I don't have it charging while using a DC connected source.... Hopefully this will save me from any unpleasantries.


Probably better off, that's pretty much what I've done myself. If you don't charge it while in use, you shouldn't have any issues.

Tubes with Class AB works really well with Odin imo. The tubes smoothen things out while Class AB still gives it more power to show what it can do. I'd imagine it will be great with EXT too.


----------



## Tristy

armstrj2 said:


> Probably better off, that's pretty much what I've done myself. If you don't charge it while in use, you shouldn't have any issues.
> 
> Tubes with Class AB works really well with Odin imo. The tubes smoothen things out while Class AB still gives it more power to show what it can do. I'd imagine it will be great with EXT too.


Do you prefer Odin with Tubes and A or AB? Very curious to hear how Tubes effect Odin's sound! Been looking forward to it for a while. EXT is really power hungry so I can see any of the modes being beneficial.


----------



## armstrj2

Tristy said:


> Do you prefer Odin with Tubes and A or AB? Very curious to hear how Tubes effect Odin's sound! Been looking forward to it for a while. EXT is really power hungry so I can see any of the modes being beneficial.


For Odin I prefer Tubes and AB. Class A robs it of too much power and Solid State can make it harsh at times but that is all obviously to my ears. 

For most hybrid IEMS what I try first is if I am listening to EDM I will pick Class AB and Solid State. You get slam, a huge stage and sparkle in the highs. For music with instruments or vocals I pick Tubes with Class A or AB depending on the iem. 

My experience with all BA iems is that it is different for every set so it's just experimentation to see what you like. 

Be careful though, when you hear how EXT sounds using C9 you might never hear it the same again and just using a DAP might be a let down 😂


----------



## Tristy

armstrj2 said:


> ... Be careful though, when you hear how EXT sounds using C9 you might never hear it the same again and just using a DAP might be a let down 😂


Haha I hope so! I can't say I use IEM's much when I'm out and about unless I'm at a coffee shop so it suits my listening style fine. It sounds like the C9 has so many options! Can't wait to get experimenting with it.


----------



## armstrj2

Tristy said:


> Haha I hope so! I can't say I use IEM's much when I'm out and about unless I'm at a coffee shop so it suits my listening style fine. It sounds like the C9 has so many options! Can't wait to get experimenting with it.


It's a fantastic piece of kit and has improved every source I have connected to it.

You also have high gain and low gain to utilize so there's a setting for every use case for me and there's very few IEMs that I haven't felt were improved as a result. If you are someone who likes  cable or tip rolling then this brings a whole extra level of options to try out.


----------



## qua2k

armstrj2 said:


> Be careful though, when you hear how EXT sounds using C9 you might never hear it the same again and just using a DAP might be a let down 😂


I can attest to this.. using the LPGT as a source, it bring much needed warmth and bass response from my TRI Starlights as well as over the hear ZMF Eikons. hard listening straight from the DAP now when i need to charge both lol


----------



## Andykong (Jan 8, 2022)

ssriram2791 said:


> @Andykong
> 
> I typically have Cayin C9 and all my DAPs disconnected from power sources when they are working in tandem.
> 
> ...



If you can make sure you'll not charge DAP and C9 at the same time, you won't trigger the safety mechanism of your C9. Charging C9 during playback is safe in your setup.  In fact, if you have been doing this in the past already, you have proved by action already.

However, we recommend you to disconnect C9 from the system when you charge C9.  We designed C9 as a portable device, there is no desktop mode in C9, charging and using C9 at the same time will downgrade C9 performance and stressed on the power-related components, as well as unnecessarily hassles to  take care of various do's and don't in charging.  We go all the way to design C9 with replaceable battery module, something uncommon among current portable players and headphone amplifiers.  From our point of view, get 1 or 2 spare set of 18650 batteries and a decent battery charger works better than charging C9 during playback.  If you buy another C9 battery module, the swaping is even more trouble-free.  You don't need to install the battery modules without the two screws when you use the C9 in desktop arrangement.



Tristy said:


> I've just ordered a C9 and plan to use it mostly with the Hugo 2 and occasionally with the SE200 via 4.4 balanced PW audio adapter and included interconnect. I have a 3.5mm reference 8 interconnect here to pair with the Hugo 2 but is there any consensus on which interconnect works well with the C9 / Hugo 2? Also, I have read mixed things regarding sources and DAC's connected to a DC while the C9 is running off of batteries, are there users that are using this setup without triggering the C9's safety mechanisms? I always run my Hugo 2 in desktop mode.
> 
> Can't wait to hear how EXT, Odin and Z1R react to the C9!
> 
> EDIT - Just seen @Andykong response above.... a bit of a bummer.



Using C9 with Hugo2 Desktop mode is not a problem, it definitely can work out very well.  However we don't know whether the battery is comletely offlined at desktop mode.  For this reason, we don't recommend charging C9 during playback when connecting to Hugo2 in desktop mode.   It might trigger the C9 protection mechanism.  

Our recommendation to ssriram2791 is applicable to you IMHO.  Take advantge of the replaceable battery design.


----------



## Andykong (Jan 8, 2022)

jlemaster1957 said:


> Thanks for your response. I was satisfied with the service and advice I received from Musicteck, and thank you for consulting with them; however, I brought these use cases to the public forum because imo other potential users with similar use cases may be considering to purchase C9 and need to be warned that it will not work well for them either. The point is: C9 should not be used while connected upstream to “live” DC powered devices.At least - users should consult their dealer or service provider for this kind of use case before purchasing and/or with the intent to use it that way.









We disagree that our recommendation to your setup can be generalise to "C9 should not be used while connected upstream to “live” DC powered devices.".

We do not recommend you to use C9 in this setup as desktop amplifier with USB-charing plug in continuously.  C9 is a protable headphone amplfier, and using C9 as a portable amplfier in your system is PERFECTLY safe.

We do not recommend you to charge C9 during playback in your system because we are uncertain about the grouding network in your setup.  It looks very complicated with a lot of uncertainties when we don't know anything about the audio ground and power management design of Google WiFi and the Sonore combo.  In fact, we have mixed opinion regarding your setup.  At least one engineer holds the opinion that you won't trigger C9 protection mechanism if you charge C9 or R8 seperately.  However, other engineers has suggestion "possibilties" that if the grounding of the upstreaming equipment is not isolated properly, there is still a risk to trigger C9 protection mechanism, that's why we decided to recommend you not to charge C9 during playback in this setup.   So the recommendation is based on your system specifically, not in generalised term.

In fact, ssriram2791 uses Roon from his Windows laptop and we confirmed that it won't trigger C9 protection even when we charge C9 during playback.  The different is we have tested different laptops and confirmed that charging C9 during playback will not trigger protection mechanism, even when we remove the battery from the laptop and run it by the supplied AC adapter.   We can't do that when we evaluate your system.

Once again, I want to restate our recommendaton clearly.  You can use C9 in the chain without any problem, its chaging during playback that is "uncertain" and risky.   If you offline C9 during charging, that will be perfectly alright.  Althernatively, if you acquire another set of 18650 batteries, or another *C9 battery module *and batteries, you can swap the batteries instead of charging them during playback.    Since we do not recommend customers to use C9 as a a desktop amplifier since our product launch, this recommendation is in line with our long term guideline.


----------



## jlemaster1957 (Jan 8, 2022)

Andykong said:


> We disagree that our recommendation to your setup can be generalise to "C9 should not be used while connected upstream to “live” DC powered devices.".
> 
> We do not recommend you to use C9 in this setup as desktop amplifier with USB-charing plug in continuously.  C9 is a protable headphone amplfier, and using C9 as a portable amplfier in your system is PERFECTLY safe.
> 
> ...


Thank you for this very clear and reasonable explanation. I see now. Before connecting C9 to upstream ‘powered’ devices while charging and playing C9, one would be wise to do due diligence to fully understand whether there is clear and certain separation between the audio ground and the grounding of the ‘power in’ line in those upstream devices. In the use case illustrated above, this is uncertain for the Sonore MicroRendu or the Google Wifi units, both of which are powered. This will vary across use cases but it seems that there is a clear message for potential buyers and users. For my own use, I will investigate with Google and Sonore to understand if the appropriate ground separation exists; however, if I understand @Andykong correctly, the system illustrated by him above is safe AS LONG AS C9 is not being charged, only connected to the upstream DAC (R8) by analogue/audio connections.

While C9 was developed as a portable device, in circumstances where users have a use case like mine, C9 is still very desirable but may require careful thought and a little research before using in this way.


----------



## Tristy (Jan 10, 2022)

Freshhh.... Very pleased so far with this! Sounds great paired with the Hugo 2 (line out) and EXT.


----------



## Andykong

jlemaster1957 said:


> Thank you for this very clear and reasonable explanation. I see now. Before connecting C9 to upstream ‘powered’ devices while charging and playing C9, one would be wise to do due diligence to fully understand whether there is clear and certain separation between the audio ground and the grounding of the ‘power in’ line in those upstream devices. In the use case illustrated above, this is uncertain for the Sonore MicroRendu or the Google Wifi units, both of which are powered. This will vary across use cases but it seems that there is a clear message for potential buyers and users. For my own use, I will investigate with Google and Sonore to understand if the appropriate ground separation exists; however, if I understand @Andykong correctly, the system illustrated by him above is safe AS LONG AS C9 is not being charged, only connected to the upstream DAC (R8) by analogue/audio connections.
> 
> While C9 was developed as a portable device, in circumstances where users have a use case like mine, C9 is still very desirable but may require careful thought and a little research before using in this way.



Yes, the system illustrated above is safe AS LONG AS C9 is not being charged, only connected to the upstream DAC (R8) by analogue/audio connections.  In fact, if you have the system on hand, you can try to charge C9 to validate our speculation. With you setup, the safe mode will response promptly and won't cause any damage.  If you proved us wrong, you have more flexibility in using the system.


----------



## ctaxxxx

The Topping acrylic rack finally arrived. My work from home setup is complete. Had to make space on my cluttered work desk. I might remove the middle rack to have more room to adjust the volume and such.

The only downside is the ifi interconnect. For some reason the handles near the plugs are gigantic. Can't even use the case on the DX300 due to their size...


----------



## greenmac

It’s upside down pal


----------



## zen87192

greenmac said:


> It’s upside down pal


Yup… I concur…. It’s upside down… 🤪


----------



## Nostoi

zen87192 said:


> Yup… I concur…. It’s upside down… 🤪


Fixed it, you're welcome 👍🏻


----------



## Tristy (Jan 12, 2022)

I was gonna get the topping rack but the price seemed a little steep for a couple of pieces of acrylic. I decided to get an acrylic stand and drill some holes for the relevant interconnects / cables. Works a treat and £25 saved.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Tristy said:


> I was gonna get the topping rack but the price seemed a little steep for a couple bits of acrylic. Decided to get a stand and drill some holes for the relevant interconnects / cables. Works a treat and £25 saved.


Awesome.   Tell me about what you hear.  How do you like the Hugo 2 and C9 combo?


----------



## qua2k

Wish i had some woodworking equipment as i have ideas for a stand for myself. would love to incorporate a small noctua fan into the stand somehow instead of just setting it behind the units for cooling.


----------



## Tristy (Jan 12, 2022)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Awesome.   Tell me about what you hear.  How do you like the Hugo 2 and C9 combo?


I'm really loving it! Literally so musical without losing much in terms of technicalities with the Hugo 2. It's made it infinitely more enjoyable for my tastes. For Odin though the hiss is too much with Pre mode, I have to use it through the line in and put the Hugo 2 to line level 3V. That combo sounds very nice, I absolutely love tubes with Odin. The EXT has seen the most benefit though, I honestly didn't think the sound could get much better than with Hugo 2 alone but its just opened it up, soundstage is better, dynamics are better, vocal timbre is so soo nice and treble sounds so natural and even more extended. I can use the EXT with the Pre mode and this really seems to help the soundstage? Its strange but with Line in with the EXT combo the soundstage seems more bottlenecked. I still need some time to fully evaluate all of the modes and combinations but so far I'm really enjoying it. Its also given the ESS side of my SE200 a new lease of life! It seems that side of the SE200 is severely underpowered.


----------



## qua2k

Tristy said:


> I'm really loving it! Literally so musical without losing much in terms of technicalities with the Hugo 2. It's made it infinitely more enjoyable for my tastes. For Odin though the hiss is too much with Pre mode, I have to use it through the line in and put the Hugo 2 to line level 3V. That combo sounds very nice, I absolutely love tubes with Odin. The EXT has seen the most benefit though, I honestly didn't think the sound could get much better than with Hugo 2 alone but its just opened it up, soundstage is better, dynamics are better, vocal timbre is so soo nice and treble sounds so natural and even more extended. I can use the EXT with the Pre mode and this really seems to help the soundstage? Its strange but with Line in with the EXT combo the soundstage seems more bottlenecked. I still need some time to fully evaluate all of the modes and combinations but so far I'm really enjoying it. Its also given the ESS side of my SE200 a new lease of life! It seems that side of the SE200 is severely underpowered.


Thank you for this insight. i may be adding an EXT or Odin to my portable rig this year, so this helps. any other insights for these two i am very much interested in.. esp with the C9.


----------



## ctaxxxx

zen87192 said:


> Yup… I concur…. It’s upside down… 🤪



Oh wow lol. I guess I had something else in mind when assembling the rack


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Tristy said:


> I'm really loving it! Literally so musical without losing much in terms of technicalities with the Hugo 2. It's made it infinitely more enjoyable for my tastes. For Odin though the hiss is too much with Pre mode, I have to use it through the line in and put the Hugo 2 to line level 3V. That combo sounds very nice, I absolutely love tubes with Odin. The EXT has seen the most benefit though, I honestly didn't think the sound could get much better than with Hugo 2 alone but its just opened it up, soundstage is better, dynamics are better, vocal timbre is so soo nice and treble sounds so natural and even more extended. I can use the EXT with the Pre mode and this really seems to help the soundstage? Its strange but with Line in with the EXT combo the soundstage seems more bottlenecked. I still need some time to fully evaluate all of the modes and combinations but so far I'm really enjoying it. Its also given the ESS side of my SE200 a new lease of life! It seems that side of the SE200 is severely underpowered.


Yeah, the C9 adds a nice warmth to the highly analytical Hugo 2 giving you the best of both worlds.

For Odin, I am loving the pairing with the RU6.


----------



## Tristy

qua2k said:


> Thank you for this insight. i may be adding an EXT or Odin to my portable rig this year, so this helps. any other insights for these two i am very much interested in.. esp with the C9.


From the listening I've done so far, EXT works well with all of the modes but I've found I like some more than others depending on the genre I'm listening to. With metal, techno and EDM I enjoy the AB mode as this seems more dynamic with more of a bass punch. With Acoustic and vocals I really enjoy EXT with Class A and Tubes. Class A seems to be a little more laid back than AB but slightly more detailed while the tubes just works wonders for vocal timbre. For Odin I love the smoothness that Class A and Tube mode gives. Again, Class A and Solid state works well with electronic on Odin. I need more listening time to fully evaluate what Im hearing but so far the various options offer different flavours with all modes adding some musicality to the sometimes sterile signature of the Hugo 2.


----------



## qua2k

Tristy said:


> From the listening I've done so far, EXT works well with all of the modes but I've found I like some more than others depending on the genre I'm listening to. With metal, techno and EDM I enjoy the AB mode as this seems more dynamic with more of a bass punch. With Acoustic and vocals I really enjoy EXT with Class A and Tubes. Class A seems to be a little more laid back than AB but slightly more detailed while the tubes just works wonders for vocal timbre. For Odin I love the smoothness that Class A and Tube mode gives. Again, Class A and Solid state works well with electronic on Odin. I need more listening time to fully evaluate what Im hearing but so far the various options offer different flavours with all modes adding some musicality to the sometimes sterile signature of the Hugo 2.


Thank you! Now I must decide which one I need to start saving pennies for.

Similarly, I use Line, Class AB from my LPGT with my Starlights. Low gain on the LPGT but high gain on the C9 gives me just the perfect volume I want at about 60% on the C9 and 85 on the LPGT.


----------



## jlemaster1957 (Jan 14, 2022)

Andykong said:


> Yes, the system illustrated above is safe AS LONG AS C9 is not being charged, only connected to the upstream DAC (R8) by analogue/audio connections.  In fact, if you have the system on hand, you can try to charge C9 to validate our speculation. With you setup, the safe mode will response promptly and won't cause any damage.  If you proved us wrong, you have more flexibility in using the system.


Will soon see- have placed my order with Musicteck! I must confess that I may not be so bold as to test the system as you suggest - I will be content to have it working as described. All your hard work on this with me @Andykong is much appreciated. Here’s to a long and enjoyable future of audiophile listening with C9!


----------



## soundblast75

Please can someone try feeding the amp 3.5 source and listen via 4.4 and see if channels are funny(in my case it shifts to the right, left dips?
All balanced no issues
Big thanks


----------



## Spawn300Z

soundblast75 said:


> Please can someone try feeding the amp 3.5 source and listen via 4.4 and see if channels are funny(in my case it shifts to the right, left dips?
> All balanced no issues
> Big thanks


I don’t have this issue. I currently use iPad Pro 12.9 or iPhone 12 Pro Max to Chord Mojo (3.5mm) to Cayin C9 to Abyss Diana V2 (4.4mm) and have great results.


----------



## jlemaster1957 (Jan 15, 2022)

Spawn300Z said:


> I don’t have this issue. I currently use iPad Pro 12.9 or iPhone 12 Pro Max to Chord Mojo (3.5mm) to Cayin C9 to Abyss Diana V2 (4.4mm) and have great results.


@soundblast75, what is your source/DAP? Might the balance problem lie there? Another idea- Also check your interconnect.


----------



## Spawn300Z

jlemaster1957 said:


> @soundblast75, what is your source/DAP? Might the balance problem lie there? Another idea- Also check your interconnect.


I use the iPad Pro or iPhone. To my chord Mojo DAC to the C9


----------



## soundblast75 (Jan 15, 2022)

jlemaster1957 said:


> @soundblast75, what is your source/DAP? Might the balance problem lie there? Another idea- Also check your interconnect.


Not the interconects, have several, dx240, I've sent it back to dealer


----------



## dadracer2

On the subject of interconnects I have been trying out the ifi Audio 4.4 to 4.4 cable this week between my N6ii/A02 and C9. The cable is a hybrid copper and silver stranded litz design and I expected it to give a brighter sound or at least a more lit up treble. Well so far not the case, but it has brought a much greater depth to the soundstage and gives a more defined placement of voices or instruments in the mix. Given the price of many of these can be well into 3 figures I think then at £69 it's a decent bargain.

Anyway, for what its worth.


----------



## Chianti

dadracer2 said:


> On the subject of interconnects I have been trying out the ifi Audio 4.4 to 4.4 cable this week between my N6ii/A02 and C9. The cable is a hybrid copper and silver stranded litz design and I expected it to give a brighter sound or at least a more lit up treble. Well so far not the case, but it has brought a much greater depth to the soundstage and gives a more defined placement of voices or instruments in the mix. Given the price of many of these can be well into 3 figures I think then at £69 it's a decent bargain.
> 
> Anyway, for what its worth.


Same here - using the iFi 4.4 interconnect cable with my C9; bought it because the one in the box was too short; seems to be well constructed and liking the sound


----------



## frankraindog

+1 for the ifi 4.4 interconnect here


----------



## srinivasvignesh

frankraindog said:


> +1 for the ifi 4.4 interconnect here



May I ask how it compares sonically to the stock IC? Also with some of the higher end expensive ICs? 

Thanks


----------



## DaYooper

srinivasvignesh said:


> May I ask how it compares sonically to the stock IC? Also with some of the higher end expensive ICs?
> 
> Thanks


More smoke, less mirrors?


----------



## dadracer2

srinivasvignesh said:


> May I ask how it compares sonically to the stock IC? Also with some of the higher end expensive ICs?
> 
> Thanks


Just as I mentioned above. It does not seem to have changed the tonal character but certainly did improve the soundstage. I cannot comment on any other ICs as these are the only 2 I have tried.


----------



## DaYooper

DaYooper said:


> More smoke, less mirrors?


And, I heard that the cable that's lubed up before it goes into the insulation is extra smooth, you know, 'cause the oil of snake makes it so!


----------



## dadracer2

DaYooper said:


> And, I heard that the cable that's lubed up before it goes into the insulation is extra smooth, you know, 'cause the oil of snake makes it so!


Ok as you wish, I don't have the time or the crayons to explain how wrong you are....


----------



## DaYooper

dadracer2 said:


> Ok as you wish, I don't have the time or the crayons to explain how wrong you are....


it's ok, I have gold plated silver interconnect cables for my C9. I kinda get it.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

I made the following post in the watercooler thread, but I thought it would be better placed here.

---------------------------------------

I made a specific directional choice for my DAPs and I am not sure I made the right one and almost nobody can provide sufficient impressions to verify it because hardly anyone seems to be in both camps at the same time.

I decided that I was going to standardize on midfi DAPs enhanced by C9 rather than investing in TOTL DAPs. I did that for a number of reasons.

1) Midfi DAPs tend to be much more mobile since their AMP sections are much smaller and more portable.
2) I have invested into high quality Desktop gear that I believe out performs the TOTL DAPs. So, I thought a TOTL DAP would be somewhat unecessarily redundant.
3) C9 would scale up the midfi DAPs to near TOTL DAP quality and add tube sound.

Here is what I have actually learned and still need to verify.

1) Midfi DAPs are indeed more portable. This makes mobility very good. For walking around outside, I still use both dongles and midfi DAPs so the use case for mobility is still competitive.
2) C9 really does significantly improve the sound quality of a midfi DAP. And, the tube sound does a good job of warming up the sound and rounding off the sharp edges of some IEMs that need it. However, the tube sound is not competitive with a true tube amp. It's only a minor, but noticeable change in timbre. To compare it to tubes really does an injustice to tube amps. It's not a tubey sound at all. Since I love the tube sound, I recently purchased a WA8.
3) The C9 really does a great job at driving full sized headphones. In fact, it might do a better job with full sized headphones than IEMs. The C9 when paired with a DAP with a dedicated Line Out like the DX300 with AMP12 is a truly great sound. If I were limited in space, I could use this as my permanent desktop solution. It can drive all of my headphones except for Susvara. HE1000v2 sounds fantastic with it and that combo sounds better than all of my IEMs.
4) A dedicated line out make a material difference to sound quality. When I had the R6 2020, since it has a dedicated line out, it sounded great with C9. The DX300 with AMP11 mki and mkii did not sound that good. With AMP12, it's magic. The RU6 sounds terrible with the C9.
5) That said, I am still tempted by TOTL DAPs. DX300 MAX, M17 and M9 are singing their siren's song and my head is spinning. What I found is that C9 improves everything I pair with it. So, my guess is even a TOTL DAP will sound better, but I haven't tested it.

What I really want to know is this. How does a DX312 + C9 compare to DX300 Max. The only A/B test I have heard of is from Auricon who seems to prefer DX300 Max. When I get home, I will test RS6 + C9. Same question. How does that compare with R8 or future RS8? Maybe @twister6 can help out here.


----------



## jlemaster1957 (Jan 19, 2022)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I made the following post in the watercooler thread, but I thought it would be better placed here.
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> 
> ...


@twister6 performed this comparison ie DX300 alone vs DX300 + C9  (plus several other DAPS and a few IC comparisons) in his excellent review  here. He does not specify in that review what Amp module he used, I would suggest to PM him or (if he is reading this) perhaps he can weigh in.

Btw I have Hiby R8 (a TOTL DAP) and have just ordered C9 so  after I have some experiences I will give an impression, as Twister’s impression (R8 alone vs R8 + C9) is quite brief, by necessity given how comprehensive was his review.


----------



## Chianti

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I made the following post in the watercooler thread, but I thought it would be better placed here.
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> 
> ...


Lots of good insights. I would tweak the dedicated line out statement a bit: You can shift that burden to the C9 by running it in power amp mode and using volume control on your mid fi DAC. C9 pa mode significantly clears up signal quality, and you avoid double pre-amping (to your point).


----------



## Ichos

I am also using the iFi interconnect.


----------



## twister6

jlemaster1957 said:


> @twister6 performed this comparison ie DX300 alone vs DX300 + C9  (plus several other DAPS and a few IC comparisons) in his excellent review  here. He does not specify in that review what Amp module he used, I would suggest to PM him or (if he is reading this) perhaps he can weigh in.
> 
> Btw I have Hiby R8 (a TOTL DAP) and have just ordered C9 so  after I have some experiences I will give an impression, as Twister’s impression (R8 alone vs R8 + C9) is quite brief, by necessity given how comprehensive was his review.



Thank you for the kind words!!! (as promised, I will paypal you $20 later   j/k)

In my DX300 review I was talking about amp11 because it was published before amp12 came out.  With DX300 and amp11 you have to be in "low gain" which sets LO output to lower voltage, and with C9 the sound scaled up using IEMs (like Traillii).  I might have to revisit and update the review using a cleaner LO of AMP12.  Another thing to keep in mind is pair up synergy and personal preference.  Perhaps amp11 + C9 sounded great with something like Traillii to my ears, but it will sound better with full size demanding headphones to someone else with amp12 + C9.  I tested RU6 set at max volume + C9 using R70x, and found no issues (no distortion due to double amping), but doesn't mean it was the best pair up, and I don't expect everybody to like it when they can use another source with a dedicated LO


----------



## iFi audio

frankraindog said:


> +1 for the ifi 4.4 interconnect here





dadracer2 said:


> On the subject of interconnects I have been trying out the ifi Audio 4.4 to 4.4 cable this week between my N6ii/A02 and C9. The cable is a hybrid copper and silver stranded litz design and I expected it to give a brighter sound or at least a more lit up treble. Well so far not the case, but it has brought a much greater depth to the soundstage and gives a more defined placement of voices or instruments in the mix. Given the price of many of these can be well into 3 figures I think then at £69 it's a decent bargain.
> 
> Anyway, for what its worth.





Chianti said:


> Same here - using the iFi 4.4 interconnect cable with my C9; bought it because the one in the box was too short; seems to be well constructed and liking the sound



Thanks folks, it's cool seeing that our 4.4mm IC got some love from you


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Chianti said:


> Lots of good insights. I would tweak the dedicated line out statement a bit: You can shift that burden to the C9 by running it in power amp mode and using volume control on your mid fi DAC. C9 pa mode significantly clears up signal quality, and you avoid double pre-amping (to your point).


I think I know what you mean.    I have a Chord Hugo TT2 that I pair with an Ampsandsound Rockwell.   Given the high noise floor on the high impedance tap, it is very helpful to run the TT2 in preamp mode to gain match it with the tube amp.    So, for volume control, I am using the TT2 instead of the POT on the tube amp and I turn the tube amp volume as high as possible to improve its signal to noise ratio.  This works great to control noise and since the TT2 has such a nice volume control, it works well.

I think that this also works well when I use the dedicated line out on the R6 which has preamp control on the line out.    This still maintains high quality.  I am not sure why this happens technically.  Perhaps someone can explain it for me.   I do know that there is a significant improvement in sound when the so called double amping of a pseudo line out amp is eliminated.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

twister6 said:


> Thank you for the kind words!!! (as promised, I will paypal you $20 later   j/k)
> 
> In my DX300 review I was talking about amp11 because it was published before amp12 came out.  With DX300 and amp11 you have to be in "low gain" which sets LO output to lower voltage, and with C9 the sound scaled up using IEMs (like Traillii).  I might have to revisit and update the review using a cleaner LO of AMP12.  Another thing to keep in mind is pair up synergy and personal preference.  Perhaps amp11 + C9 sounded great with something like Traillii to my ears, but it will sound better with full size demanding headphones to someone else with amp12 + C9.  I tested RU6 set at max volume + C9 using R70x, and found no issues (no distortion due to double amping), but doesn't mean it was the best pair up, and I don't expect everybody to like it when they can use another source with a dedicated LO


Alex, have you done a comparison of the DX300 Max to the DX312 + C9?   I would be very interested in your professional opinion of those 2 alternatives.


----------



## twister6

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Alex, have you done a comparison of the DX300 Max to the DX312 + C9?   I would be very interested in your professional opinion of those 2 alternatives.



I just did, and wow!  DX300 MAX is good, but DX312 (amp12 LO, med gain, volume 100 - max LO voltage at med gain) + C9 (tubes, AB class) is on a whole other level with Traillii when it comes to soundstage expansion and holographic imaging as well as layering of the sounds and a pitch black background (tested with Traillii and FT cable).  I don't hear a drastic change in tonality or sound sig, but technical performance is definitely superior in DX312+C9 over DX300 MAX SS.  And to add to that, I also just tried DX311 (amp11 LO, med gain, volume 100) + C9, and it is NOT the same performance as DX312+C9.  The soundstage is narrower, the imaging has sounds closer to the center, and not the same level of layering.  So, if you do want to use C9 with DX300 dap, I would recommend amp12 which has a clean dedicated LO over amp11 which has a shared pseudo LO.

The only thing, both DX300 MAX and a regular DX300 are discontinued (no more AK4499 dac and supply issues with CS dacs).  So, either you got it or will have to look for a 2nd hand used one.  Another option, though I never tried A02 card, heard only great impressions about N6ii w/A02 for a seriously good LO, especially with C9.


----------



## justanut

twister6 said:


> I just did, and wow!  DX300 MAX is good, but DX312 (amp12 LO, med gain, volume 100 - max LO voltage at med gain) + C9 (tubes, AB class) is on a whole other level with Traillii when it comes to soundstage expansion and holographic imaging as well as layering of the sounds and a pitch black background (tested with Traillii and FT cable).  I don't hear a drastic change in tonality or sound sig, but technical performance is definitely superior in DX312+C9 over DX300 MAX SS.  And to add to that, I also just tried DX311 (amp11 LO, med gain, volume 100) + C9, and it is NOT the same performance as DX312+C9.  The soundstage is narrower, the imaging has sounds closer to the center, and not the same level of layering.  So, if you do want to use C9 with DX300 dap, I would recommend amp12 which has a clean dedicated LO over amp11 which has a shared pseudo LO.
> 
> The only thing, both DX300 MAX and a regular DX300 are discontinued (no more AK4499 dac and supply issues with CS dacs).  So, either you got it or will have to look for a 2nd hand used one.  Another option, though I never tried A02 card, heard only great impressions about N6ii w/A02 for a seriously good LO, especially with C9.


I'm surprised to hear you say that the C9 can help the DX312 overcome the technical differences with the 300Max and be the superior pair. The C9 must be something magical at this rate.


----------



## twister6

justanut said:


> I'm surprised to hear you say that the C9 can help the DX312 overcome the technical differences with the 300Max and be the superior pair. The C9 must be something magical at this rate.



with Traillii, that is.  The results could be different in other pair ups.  C9 takes DX312/311 internal amp out of the equation to do its own sound coloring.  I just went back and forth multiple times, and I don't hear a drastic change in terms of sound sig and tonality of Traillii in that comparison.  But what stood out for me was improvement in technical performance.   And I'm not surprised, because even in my C9 review from last year that was my main conclusion while describing different pair ups, C9 scales up the technical performance of many DAPs.


----------



## Ichos

@Andykong 

I think that Cayin should make a high end DAC in the form factor of the C9.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

twister6 said:


> I just did, and wow!  DX300 MAX is good, but DX312 (amp12 LO, med gain, volume 100 - max LO voltage at med gain) + C9 (tubes, AB class) is on a whole other level with Traillii when it comes to soundstage expansion and holographic imaging as well as layering of the sounds and a pitch black background (tested with Traillii and FT cable).  I don't hear a drastic change in tonality or sound sig, but technical performance is definitely superior in DX312+C9 over DX300 MAX SS.  And to add to that, I also just tried DX311 (amp11 LO, med gain, volume 100) + C9, and it is NOT the same performance as DX312+C9.  The soundstage is narrower, the imaging has sounds closer to the center, and not the same level of layering.  So, if you do want to use C9 with DX300 dap, I would recommend amp12 which has a clean dedicated LO over amp11 which has a shared pseudo LO.
> 
> The only thing, both DX300 MAX and a regular DX300 are discontinued (no more AK4499 dac and supply issues with CS dacs).  So, either you got it or will have to look for a 2nd hand used one.  Another option, though I never tried A02 card, heard only great impressions about N6ii w/A02 for a seriously good LO, especially with C9.



Fantastic.    Now, I feel I do not need to purchase the DX300 Max.    I have been using the DX300 with AMP 12 in exactly the same configuration you documented and it blows me away, especially with full sized headphones.

I just bought an RS6 and will try that with the C9 next week when I get home.   I am hoping for R2R magic.    I also bought an N6ii Ti even though I said I wouldn't, so I do need to find an A02 amp.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Ichos said:


> @Andykong
> 
> I think that Cayin should make a high end DAC in the form factor of the C9.


I would be surprised if they do not make one.  It's just timing.


----------



## armstrj2

twister6 said:


> Another option, though I never tried A02 card, heard only great impressions about N6ii w/A02 for a seriously good LO, especially with C9.


I'd be very interested to hear other people's impressions of this pairing. Sound interesting.


----------



## zen87192 (Jan 21, 2022)

armstrj2 said:


> I'd be very interested to hear other people's impressions of this pairing. Sound interesting.


A very high grade pairing. N6ii with A02 is exemplary. The A02 board just lets everything musical through which is then amplified by the C9 which makes things even better. Added to the fact that you can start to play about with the sound using the C9’s A or A\B setting then Tubes or a combination of all of them. It’s very possible to tune your musical sound preference to your Headphones and personal hearing tastes as well.


----------



## dadracer2

zen87192 said:


> A very high grade pairing. N6ii with A02 is exemplary. The A02 board just lets everything musical through which is then amplified by the C9 which makes things even better. Added to the fact that you can start to play about with the sound using the C9’s A or A\B setting then Tubes or a combination of all of them. It’s very possible to tune your musical sound preference to your Headphones and personal hearing tastes As well.


Yes indeed. I think as an overall package it is very close to full size desktop systems. I would consider using the C9 as a headphone amp in a full separates system. It really is outrageously good.


----------



## dadracer2

Oh and just to say if you are trying to find a travel case for your C9, or indeed one that will take your C9, N6ii DAP, IC and charging cables then I found this from ifi Audio. It's quite snug but then nothing will be rattling around.


----------



## jlemaster1957 (Jul 31, 2022)

dadracer2 said:


> Oh and just to say if you are trying to find a travel case for your C9, or indeed one that will take your C9, N6ii DAP, IC and charging cables then I found this from ifi Audio. It's quite snug but then nothing will be rattling around.


Nice- link to buy please? Is it iFi iTraveller – Multi-Purpose Travel case for Porta... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08XW8DGR...t_i_B7W01BP77P56B2VNZKT0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1 I wonder if it fits with the C9 case on?


----------



## twister6

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Fantastic.    Now, I feel I do not need to purchase the DX300 Max.    I have been using the DX300 with AMP 12 in exactly the same configuration you documented and it blows me away, especially with full sized headphones.
> 
> I just bought an RS6 and will try that with the C9 next week when I get home.   I am hoping for R2R magic.    I also bought an N6ii Ti even though I said I wouldn't, so I do need to find an A02 amp.



I don't have a crystal ball, but I see in exactly 5 weeks you standing next to Musicteck table at CanJam NYC, placing a deposit after auditioning N8ii


----------



## twister6

Ichos said:


> @Andykong
> 
> I think that Cayin should make a high end DAC in the form factor of the C9.



IMHO, and considering the uncertainty in DAC market over the last 2 years and possibly moving forward another year or two, I think it's a bad idea   DAP and dongle manufacturers scrambling to recover from factory fires, discontinued devices, supply chain issues, and so on.  Why give yourself a headache when you can make a high quality portable amp that is independent of these variables, and enjoy selling it for years without a worry of redesign/upgrade because you can't source a DAC or need to be mqa compatible or compatibility issues with different OS, etc.


----------



## dadracer2

jlemaster1957 said:


> Nice- link to buy please? I wonder if it fits with the C9 case on?


Not sure if a link to Amazon UK is a help for you. Maybe try Amazon.com? where do you generally get ifi Audio products from? I don't have a case on my C9 but from what I have seen they don't add much onto the length or width. There is a small amount of space lengthwise which I am sure should accommodate the extra for the case. The width will be fine as you can see in the photo I have a set of IC cables and the Velcro bumper up the side of the C9.


----------



## Ichos

twister6 said:


> IMHO, and considering the uncertainty in DAC market over the last 2 years and possibly moving forward another year or two, I think it's a bad idea   DAP and dongle manufacturers scrambling to recover from factory fires, discontinued devices, supply chain issues, and so on.  Why give yourself a headache when you can make a high quality portable amp that is independent of these variables, and enjoy selling it for years without a worry of redesign/upgrade because you can't source a DAC or need to be mqa compatible or compatibility issues with different OS, etc.


Well maybe a NOS R2R DAC that is future proof for the fans of the design principle? (like me...)


----------



## dadracer2

Hmm, well Cayin have got quite a few items forthcoming but I cannot see them going for a standalone portable dac. It feels as if it would be a very niche product right now.


----------



## Andykong

Ichos said:


> @Andykong
> 
> I think that Cayin should make a high end DAC in the form factor of the C9.



We don't have any plan to release a portable DAC at the moment, ... wait a minute, I wrote something like this before,  its *HERE*.

The A02 is the *closest option* to dedicated portable DAC in current lineup, so should I say ex-line-up because this Audio Motherboard sold out already.


----------



## Andykong

Ichos said:


> Well maybe a NOS R2R DAC that is future proof for the fans of the design principle? (like me...)



Well, the design principle of R2R DAC is a classic, you can call it future proof, but look at the high-end R-2R DAC brands such as MBS, dCS, TotalDAC, denafrips, ...  if they can develop wide range of models at different price point, and keep them updated over the years.

There are always upgrade optoins, including  NOS R2R DAC.  
​


----------



## Andykong

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Fantastic.    Now, I feel I do not need to purchase the DX300 Max.    I have been using the DX300 with AMP 12 in exactly the same configuration you documented and it blows me away, especially with full sized headphones.
> 
> I just bought an RS6 and will try that with the C9 next week when I get home.   I am hoping for R2R magic.    I also bought an N6ii Ti even though I said I wouldn't, so I do need to find an A02 amp.



You also bought an N6ii Ti even though you said you wouldn't?


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Andykong said:


> You also bought an N6ii Ti even though you said you wouldn't?


Yeah, a friend offered it to me for a good price, so I had to do it.


----------



## armstrj2

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Yeah, a friend offered it to me for a good price, so I had to do it.


Not too many A02 motherboards about though so this one looks like it's going to be hard to try out.


----------



## Ichos

Andykong said:


> Well, the design principle of R2R DAC is a classic, you can call it future proof, but look at the high-end R-2R DAC brands such as MBS, dCS, TotalDAC, denafrips, ...  if they can develop wide range of models at different price point, and keep them updated over the years.
> 
> There are always upgrade optoins, including  NOS R2R DAC.
> ​


The working principle is the same so it is not like the crazy delta sigma race.
The newer models focus on power supply, analog stages and clocks.
I have owned three Denafrips DACs and the sonic changes from the lower to higher models well less related to the digital principle but rather in the rest of the design.
So considering ones budget, they are quite future proof.
Anyway just pondering here.


----------



## dadracer2

armstrj2 said:


> Not too many A02 motherboards about though so this one looks like it's going to be hard to try out.


I think I'm right in saying they only had one production run of about 500 globally so getting a new one now is going to be tricky. There might be some on the for sale site at Head Fi. Otherwise the E02 might be an option?


----------



## dadracer2

dadracer2 said:


> I think I'm right in saying they only had one production run of about 500 globally so getting a new one now is going to be tricky. There might be some on the for sale site at Head Fi. Otherwise the E02 might be an option?


Actually one here...https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/rare-cayin-a02-module-for-n6ii.15914/


----------



## armstrj2

dadracer2 said:


> I think I'm right in saying they only had one production run of about 500 globally so getting a new one now is going to be tricky. There might be some on the for sale site at Head Fi. Otherwise the E02 might be an option?


Cheers. Was having a look through the classifieds there. Can't imagine too many will come up but there does seem to be more E02 about alright. That one you linked to is sold, unfortunately.


----------



## dadracer2

armstrj2 said:


> Cheers. Was having a look through the classifieds there. Can't imagine too many will come up but there does seem to be more E02 about alright. That one you linked to is sold, unfortunately.


Oh sorry. Here is the place I got mine in the UK https://www.npaudio.uk/accessories/cayin-n6ii-a02-audio-module-sold-out It does say sold out but maybe drop Steve an email and check if he any coming in as he seems to have stuff arriving all the time.


----------



## Auricon

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Fantastic.    Now, I feel I do not need to purchase the DX300 Max.    I have been using the DX300 with AMP 12 in exactly the same configuration you documented and it blows me away, especially with full sized headphones.
> 
> I just bought an RS6 and will try that with the C9 next week when I get home.   I am hoping for R2R magic.    I also bought an N6ii Ti even though I said I wouldn't, so I do need to find an A02 amp.



Re-listening to DX312 + C9, using Twister's settings, and Indigo and I found it very holographic with great soundstage and layered details. When I listen to Indigo + DX300MAX SS, I didn't notice a drastic shift in sound but I noted a slight bass density, texture and euphoric thump - MAX SS envelops me with it's bassy warmth - silly right? I don't have the hearing at my age to discern all the technical details but C9 elevates the DX312 to DX300MAX and probably exceeds it in some aspects, but I have a more emotional connection with my music with the MAX... the M17 in Enhanced over-ear headphone DC mode comes in a very close second.

Hunkered down in bed with the flu and my bricks.


----------



## zen87192

Auricon said:


> Hunkered down in bed with the flu and my bricks


Get some good rest and some easy ‘tunes’ 🎧 Get well soon….🤒


----------



## qua2k

If anyone is looking for the best case out there in my opinion, look no further than Van Nuys. This is their VD892-00. Fits the C9 with plenty of room for comfort and everything else I need. Pretty expensive for a case but worth it.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

qua2k said:


> If anyone is looking for the best case out there in my opinion, look no further than Van Nuys. This is their VD892-00. Fits the C9 with plenty of room for comfort and everything else I need. Pretty expensive for a case but worth it.


this is my favorite


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

dadracer2 said:


> I think I'm right in saying they only had one production run of about 500 globally so getting a new one now is going to be tricky. There might be some on the for sale site at Head Fi. Otherwise the E02 might be an option?


If it shows up on the resale market, I'll buy it.  If not, I'll just use the N6ii Ti as a standalone DAP.  It's supposed to be pretty good.


----------



## armstrj2

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> If it shows up on the resale market, I'll buy it.  If not, I'll just use the N6ii Ti as a standalone DAP.  It's supposed to be pretty good.


 I managed to pick up an N6ii with A02 last night from another Head-Fi user. I'll report back on how it compares to my other sources when it arrives.


----------



## dadracer2

armstrj2 said:


> I managed to pick up an N6ii with A02 last night from another Head-Fi user. I'll report back on how it compares to my other sources when it arrives.


Congratulations.


----------



## 51days

Not really a newcomer in the portable audio world here, although my financial situation only has allowed me to dream about such a device like the C9 so far. A few weeks ago, I broke the bank and got an AK SR25 MK2 to go with the few IEMs I have. For some reason, destiny knocked at the door a few days later and suddenly the perspective of purchasing a C9 to stack with the AK player became real. I pulled the trigger yesterday and saying that my excitement waiting for the amp to arrive is high would be an understatement. 

I did not bought the official case yet, because I was wondering if they are other options available. Nothing wrong with the official case, but something fancier would be welcomed. Internet wasn't helpful so far in that regard. Do you guys know if they are cases available for the C9?


----------



## jlemaster1957

51days said:


> Not really a newcomer in the portable audio world here, although my financial situation only has allowed me to dream about such a device like the C9 so far. A few weeks ago, I broke the bank and got an AK SR25 MK2 to go with the few IEMs I have. For some reason, destiny knocked at the door a few days later and suddenly the perspective of purchasing a C9 to stack with the AK player became real. I pulled the trigger yesterday and saying that my excitement waiting for the amp to arrive is high would be an understatement.
> 
> I did not bought the official case yet, because I was wondering if they are other options available. Nothing wrong with the official case, but something fancier would be welcomed. Internet wasn't helpful so far in that regard. Do you guys know if they are cases available for the C9?


As per @Andykong earlier in this feed (if I recall correctly) the official case helps with heat dissipation so has design advantages that another might not. I have not in any case seen another different aftermarket case for the C9. Some who are using C9 as a transportable not a portable have advocated getting stick on feet to protect the glass on the undersurface which could also help with heat dissipation though would not improve the appearance. What don’t you like about the official case?


----------



## 51days

jlemaster1957 said:


> As per @Andykong earlier in this feed (if I recall correctly) the official case helps with heat dissipation so has design advantages that another might not. I have not in any case seen another different aftermarket case for the C9. Some who are using C9 as a transportable not a portable have advocated getting stick on feet to protect the glass on the undersurface which could also help with heat dissipation though would not improve the appearance. What don’t you like about the official case?


Thanks for your detailed answer. As stated in my previous post, nothing wrong with the official case, I just would have liked something fancier, but I will order it anyway now, based on your explanation.


----------



## Nostoi

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> If it shows up on the resale market, I'll buy it.  If not, I'll just use the N6ii Ti as a standalone DAP.  It's supposed to be pretty good.


I'd second that. If you can't track down the A02, then the E02 is a perfectly viable alternative with the C9.


----------



## Spawn300Z

Nostoi said:


> I'd second that. If you can't track down the A02, then the E02 is a perfectly viable alternative with the C9.


I have read an article and my dealer said the E02 was better than the A02. What has you guys perfecting the A02. I plan on getting a N6ii in near future.


----------



## Nostoi

Spawn300Z said:


> I have read an article and my dealer said the E02 was better than the A02. What has you guys perfecting the A02. I plan on getting a N6ii in near future.


They have a different timbre, but I wouldn't say one is better than the other. E02 is very forward with terrific impact/slam, A02 is more refined with a very natural timbre, and overall fairly smooth. E02 is definitely a bit underrated in my opinion. Both pair beautifully with the C9.


----------



## ssriram2791

Nostoi said:


> They have a different timbre, but I wouldn't say one is better than the other. E02 is very forward with terrific impact/slam, A02 is more refined with a very natural timbre, and overall fairly smooth. E02 is definitely a bit underrated in my opinion. Both pair beautifully with the C9.


To add, E02 line out has greater battery life (22 hours) vs A02 line out (about 11 hours) if that is something that matters. Not sure how Cayin pulls that off with E02 though. 

Also agree with the differences mentioned between A02 and E02. A02+C9 is pretty close to Cayin N8 (it also uses same AKM4497) flagship in terms of technical performance.


----------



## Spawn300Z

Thanks for your take. I’ve been using my C9 with the mojo and iPad 12.9 or iPhone 12 max. So you think I will have encreased performance with the N6ii


----------



## ssriram2791

Spawn300Z said:


> Thanks for your take. I’ve been using my C9 with the mojo and iPad 12.9 or iPhone 12 max. So you think I will have encreased performance with the N6ii


I think N6ii USP (ultimate selling point) is one device that can have different sound signatures based on the motherboards chosen. If mojo doesnt satisy your needs, you can very well go with N6ii, but that is a decision that rests with you. C9 is wonderful with any source you throw at it. Better the source, better technical performance you will get.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Nostoi said:


> I'd second that. If you can't track down the A02, then the E02 is a perfectly viable alternative with the C9.


Thanks!  That's nice to know since I can get a E02.


----------



## dadracer2

ssriram2791 said:


> I think N6ii USP (ultimate selling point) is one device that can have different sound signatures based on the motherboards chosen. If mojo doesnt satisy your needs, you can very well go with N6ii, but that is a decision that rests with you. C9 is wonderful with any source you throw at it. Better the source, better technical performance you will get.


I think the N6ii also gives you an option of having music streaming and when coupled with the C9 you can still have balanced output with the Nutubes.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Nostoi said:


> I'd second that. If you can't track down the A02, then the E02 is a perfectly viable alternative with the C9.


I think I am going to buy an E02 module.    I read this review from Alex and he seems to like the E02 more than A01.

*E02 vs A01* – E02 soundstage is a little wider.  Overall tonality is similar, but there are some differences I’m picking up.  E02 bass has more rumble and more analog texture.  Mids are similarly smooth, but E02 has more organic layered natural texture.  I went back and forth many times comparing these, focusing specifically on mids, and that texture and better layering and separation is what makes E02 stand out, especially when it comes to vocals.  Also, E02 treble has a little more sparkle and airiness.  Overall, E02 sounds like it has more analog texture, better layering, and improved sound dynamics in this comparison.


----------



## ssriram2791 (Jan 24, 2022)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I think I am going to buy an E02 module.    I read this review from Alex and he seems to like the E02 more than A01.
> 
> *E02 vs A01* – E02 soundstage is a little wider.  Overall tonality is similar, but there are some differences I’m picking up.  E02 bass has more rumble and more analog texture.  Mids are similarly smooth, but E02 has more organic layered natural texture.  I went back and forth many times comparing these, focusing specifically on mids, and that texture and better layering and separation is what makes E02 stand out, especially when it comes to vocals.  Also, E02 treble has a little more sparkle and airiness.  Overall, E02 sounds like it has more analog texture, better layering, and improved sound dynamics in this comparison.


It was not compared to A02. A01 does not have dedicated 4.4 mm lineout like A02 or E02.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

ssriram2791 said:


> It was not compared to A02


A02 is my first choice, but I may not be able to get one.


----------



## armstrj2

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I think I am going to buy an E02 module.    I read this review from Alex and he seems to like the E02 more than A01.
> 
> *E02 vs A01* – E02 soundstage is a little wider.  Overall tonality is similar, but there are some differences I’m picking up.  E02 bass has more rumble and more analog texture.  Mids are similarly smooth, but E02 has more organic layered natural texture.  I went back and forth many times comparing these, focusing specifically on mids, and that texture and better layering and separation is what makes E02 stand out, especially when it comes to vocals.  Also, E02 treble has a little more sparkle and airiness.  Overall, E02 sounds like it has more analog texture, better layering, and improved sound dynamics in this comparison.


I think you might be mixing up the different modules? The A02 and A01 are two different modules. A02 is the one you need to compare with E02 for use with the C9


----------



## ssriram2791

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> A02 is my first choice, but I may not be able to get one.


E02 is pretty good. Not denying that, but comparison was off. Good choice if you cant find A02 for sure.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Jan 24, 2022)

armstrj2 said:


> I think you might be mixing up the different modules? The A02 and A01 are two different modules. A02 is the one you need to compare with E02 for use with the C9


I understand the difference.   I bought the N6ii Ti because it has the R01 R2R DAC for use directly with my IEMs.    In addition, I want to pair the N6ii with my C9.   I can do it with the A02 or E02.   I can buy the E02 now.  I cannot buy the A02 unless I find someone willing to sell it to me.    Alex compared the E02 with the A01 and it appears he likes it better in phone out.    If I pair the N6ii with E02 and use it line out to the C9, it should sound even better than the E02 in phone out mode.


----------



## armstrj2

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I understand the difference.   I bought the N6ii Ti because it has the R01 R2R DAC for use directly with my IEMs.    In addition, I want to pair the N6ii with my C9.   I can do it with the A02 or E02.   I can buy the E02 now.  I cannot buy the A02 unless I find someone willing to sell it to me.    Alex compared the E02 with the A01 and it appears he likes it better in phone out.    If I pair the N6ii with E02 and use it line out to the C9, it should sound even better than the E02 in phone out mode.


Ah no worries, I thought you were thinking Alex had compared the A02 to the E02 there. Sounds like the E02 will do the job nicely.


----------



## ssriram2791

armstrj2 said:


> Ah no worries, I thought you were thinking Alex had compared the A02 to the E02 there. Sounds like the E02 will do the job nicely.


If @HiFiHawaii808  has IER-Z1R (IEMs with dynamic driver bass), he is going to have some good time with E02+C9


----------



## Nostoi

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I understand the difference.   I bought the N6ii Ti because it has the R01 R2R DAC for use directly with my IEMs.    In addition, I want to pair the N6ii with my C9.   I can do it with the A02 or E02.   I can buy the E02 now.  I cannot buy the A02 unless I find someone willing to sell it to me.    Alex compared the E02 with the A01 and it appears he likes it better in phone out.    If I pair the N6ii with E02 and use it line out to the C9, it should sound even better than the E02 in phone out mode.


Am I right in thinking you like the Hugo2 with the C9? If so, you'll definitely like the E02 with the C9 as they have a very similar tonality and timbre - the E02 is very forward with a super engaging presentation.

Obviously the E02 sounds far superior with line out to the C9, but it also sounds fantastic in phone out mode even with IEMs. 

On the A01, it sounds very different to both the A02 and E02. I personally found it quite soft and underwhelming, and sold it soon after I received it.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Nostoi said:


> Am I right in thinking you like the Hugo2 with the C9? If so, you'll definitely like the E02 with the C9 as they have a very similar tonality and timbre - the E02 is very forward with a super engaging presentation.
> 
> Obviously the E02 sounds far superior with line out to the C9, but it also sounds fantastic in phone out mode even with IEMs.
> 
> On the A01, it sounds very different to both the A02 and E02. I personally found it quite soft and underwhelming, and sold it soon after I received it.


Yes, I really like the Hugo2 + C9.  If the E02 is that good, then it's phenomenal.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

ssriram2791 said:


> If @HiFiHawaii808  has IER-Z1R (IEMs with dynamic driver bass), he is going to have some good time with E02+C9


Nice.   I do have a Z1R.


----------



## Nostoi (Jan 25, 2022)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Yes, I really like the Hugo2 + C9.  If the E02 is that good, then it's phenomenal.


It's not as good technically - imaging and layering aren't as precisely defined, but it's not too far off. Certainly in terms of timbre, it's very close. Aside from Hugo2, E02/C9 is the only portable source that works with ZMF VC in my opinion.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Nostoi said:


> It's not as good technically - imaging and layering aren't as precisely defined, but it's not too far off. Certainly in terms of timbre, it's very close. Aside from Hugo2, E02/C9 is the only portable source that works with ZMF VC in my opinion.


Have you tried DX300 with Amp12 + C9?   That works very well for ZMF VC


----------



## Nostoi

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Have you tried DX300 with Amp12 + C9?   That works very well for ZMF VC


Haven't tried that combo but heard very good things about it. I was on the fence between buying the DX300 and Amp 12 as a back-up unit or the M17, and went for the M17 because of its versatility. That said, E02 to my ears has better synergy with VC than M17.


----------



## 51days

In love at first sight, what a beast…and what a lovely sound presentation. I am floored.


----------



## Andykong

All members in Cayin will start our Chinese New Year holiday today. During the holiday, all orders, inquires and after sales service will be processed immediately when we resume office on 10th February. 2022.

Thanks for all the support and we wish everyone to stay safe, healthy, and to have a wonderful Year of Tiger.





PS. Unlike previous years, I'll will take a break during the Chinese New Year vacation. I'll only check on forum occasionally. Please pardon me if I didn't resposne to your exchanges or PM promptly.


----------



## Tanalasta

Wishing you and all a prosperous and good fortune for the Chinese New Year.

Decided a splash of red (2Go/Hugo2 to Cayin C9) with the Oriolus Trailii would be most appropriate for the season.


----------



## 14christ

Could someone comment on c9 with dx300 and mest mk2? How does the c9 improve the signature?


----------



## 14christ

Nevermind. I started reading on page 200 and got all the info I need. Thank you all for the info.


----------



## 51days

Four days with the C9. Four days experimenting with IEMs, sources and C9's settings. Cables also. This machine runs hot but makes me sweat. 5 million Scoville units of love.


----------



## dadracer2

51days said:


> Four days with the C9. Four days experimenting with IEMs, sources and C9's settings. Cables also. This machine runs hot but makes me sweat. 5 million Scoville units of love.


Have you reached a consensus? Do you have favourite settings and cables?


----------



## 51days (Jan 29, 2022)

dadracer2 said:


> Have you reached a consensus? Do you have favourite settings and cables?


It requires a few more weeks to reach that level. For the time being, I am enjoying the solid state/class A mode with most of my IEMs via 4.4mm output. Stock interconnects are very good, but I use my Plussound Exo6 GPC with satisfaction at the moment.

Winning combo so far: the Oriveti OV800 and the 7HZ Timeless.


----------



## Mithrandir1980

14christ said:


> Could someone comment on c9 with dx300 and mest mk2? How does the c9 improve the signature?


I have the DX312 and definitely the C9 improves a lot and complements it.

 In the end you will fall...😜


----------



## Mithrandir1980

51days said:


> It requires a few more weeks to reach that level. For the time being, I am enjoying the solid state/class A mode with most of my IEMs via 4.4mm output. Stock interconnects are very good, but I use my Plussound Exo6 GPC with satisfaction at the moment.
> 
> Winning combo so far: the Oriveti OV800 and the 7HZ Timeless.


How about the timeless I've been wanting to try it for a long time...is the bass really that impressive?


----------



## 51days

Mithrandir1980 said:


> How about the timeless I've been wanting to try it for a long time...is the bass really that impressive?


It depends from where you are coming from speaking about bass and what are your expectations in that regard. As a reference, I define myself as a mild bass-head, who can enjoy a neutral signature well-implemented. Yes, I find the 7Hz bass very enjoyable with the right amount of "oompf" and reverb while being tight enough, thus avoiding invasion all over the FR-range. The Timeless are much more than just bass. Check the thread and foster your own opinion or even better, pull the trigger. These are worth the gamble.


----------



## cgriess

Hi,

I have the C9 since a few days and would like to connect it balanced with my A&K SP2K, but not via an adapter 2.5 to 4.4 but directly via interconnect cable male 2.5 to male 4.4.

Especially for the A&K I found this cable: Brise Audio Yatono mini LE 2.5 3.5 to 4.4 mm, but this is hard to get in Europe and not cheap either.

Do I need the combination 2.5/3.5 on the side of my A&K or does it also do a direct interconnect cable male 2.5 to male 4.4?

If so I have not found such an interconnect cable male 2.5 to male 4.4.

Does anyone know a good cable, not too expensive, preferably with a source of supply in Germany/Europe or who makes such a cable on order?

I hope you understand my problem. My English is not so good and have not read through the whole thread. That would take days with my English.

I would be happy if someone could help me.

Thanks
Claus


----------



## armstrj2 (Feb 1, 2022)

cgriess said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have the C9 since a few days and would like to connect it balanced with my A&K SP2K, but not via an adapter 2.5 to 4.4 but directly via interconnect cable male 2.5 to male 4.4.
> 
> ...


Hi I use this setup when connecting my SP2K to the C9:

ifi 4.4mm interconnect cable:

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/cables-jack-jack/ifi-audio-jack-44mm-cable-ofhc-copper-silver-shielding-30cm-p-14844.html?search_query=ifi 4.4&fast_search=fs

PW Audio 4.4mm adapter for AK players:

https://shop.musicteck.com/collecti...alanced-female-adapter?variant=39412295270462

I haven't seen too many direct cables that don't need an adapter available off the shelf so you will probably need to get one made bespoke but others here may have come across one.


----------



## cgriess

Thanks' for your answer.

Yes I also use such a similar adapter from PS-Audio with the standard cable from the C9. Also works well.

But I mean that a direct connection with an interconnect cable could / should be better?


----------



## dadracer2

You could try Forza Audio Works. They are in Poland and Matt is very helpful. They will make you an IC  cable to your specification and they are good value.


----------



## cgriess

Thanks for the tip. I did not know yet. I was looking for something like that.

I have just looked around on the website. Sounds good at reasonable prices.

I will write Matt an email...


----------



## Nostoi

cgriess said:


> Thanks for the tip. I did not know yet. I was looking for something like that.
> 
> I have just looked around on the website. Sounds good at reasonable prices.
> 
> I will write Matt an email...


Have to agree with @dadracer2 here - if you're in EU, Forza is the way to go. I just received a Hybrid Noir 0.5m IC with Furutech plugs for my C9/N6ii, and I couldn't be happier. Notable upgrade from stock. Recommended!


----------



## iFi audio

armstrj2 said:


> ifi 4.4mm interconnect cable:
> 
> https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/cables-jack-jack/ifi-audio-jack-44mm-cable-ofhc-copper-silver-shielding-30cm-p-14844.html?search_query=ifi 4.4&fast_search=fs



If I may ask, how does it work for you? Are you happy?


----------



## cgriess

Nostoi said:


> Have to agree with @dadracer2 here - if you're in EU, Forza is the way to go. I just received a Hybrid Noir 0.5m IC with Furutech plugs for my C9/N6ii, and I couldn't be happier. Notable upgrade from stock. Recommended!



very nice photo, really cool..... and thanks for sharing your experience.

I'll definitely check with Forza.

You also have your headphone cable from Forza? Also satisfied with it?

Do you also have experience with the Forza USB cable? I would also need one.


----------



## armstrj2

iFi audio said:


> If I may ask, how does it work for you? Are you happy?


Works very well. I picked it up as it was reasonably priced but thinking I'd end up upgrading to something more expensive. Hasn't happened. Very noticeable upgrade in sound over the included cable that came with the C9.


----------



## dadracer2

armstrj2 said:


> Works very well. I picked it up as it was reasonably priced but thinking I'd end up upgrading to something more expensive. Hasn't happened. Very noticeable upgrade in sound over the included cable that came with the C9.


I didn't find a lot of tonal difference with the ifi 4.4 cable over the Cayin C9 standard cable but the soundstage was significantly improved. It seems like really great value when you see the pricing on some 4.4 IC cables.


----------



## IgeNeLL

cgriess said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have the C9 since a few days and would like to connect it balanced with my A&K SP2K, but not via an adapter 2.5 to 4.4 but directly via interconnect cable male 2.5 to male 4.4.
> 
> ...


Actually, you don't need the GND from the 3.5 pole. Just 2.5 to 4.4 can work.
In my experience, when connecting the GND it has the impact that cannot judge is better/worse.
But for AK product line, line out through phone out is not the optimal way to input for C9, other device with proper lineout option is better.


----------



## Tanalasta

cgriess said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have the C9 since a few days and would like to connect it balanced with my A&K SP2K, but not via an adapter 2.5 to 4.4 but directly via interconnect cable male 2.5 to male 4.4.
> 
> ...


I would still recommend the use of an adapter. For two reasons. One is that if you have a short interconnect it is easy to stress the cable connection when you move either the C9 or the DAP. And 2.5mm plugs can be somewhat fragile.

The A&K adapter is rather useful as it also allows for 4.4mm IEMs should you go down that path in the future.


----------



## iFi audio

armstrj2 said:


> Works very well. I picked it up as it was reasonably priced but thinking I'd end up upgrading to something more expensive. Hasn't happened. Very noticeable upgrade in sound over the included cable that came with the C9.



That's very good to hear, thanks for your feedback!



cgriess said:


> You also have your headphone cable from Forza? Also satisfied with it?



We do, a bunch of them in fact. FAW is our go-to company as far as headphone cables go. Very good price-to-performance ratio and very comfy non-microphonic products (Noir) in general.


----------



## cgriess

IgeNeLL said:


> Actually, you don't need the GND from the 3.5 pole. Just 2.5 to 4.4 can work.
> In my experience, when connecting the GND it has the impact that cannot judge is better/worse.
> But for AK product line, line out through phone out is not the optimal way to input for C9, other device with proper lineout option is better.



Thanks for your experience with GND from the 3.5 pole. It is interesting. I think it makes it easier just to get a 2.5 to 4.4.

Yes I know line out is not the best connection. I started with the SP2K 2 years ago and didn't know where it was going then.  But I need/needed a powerful amplifier for my SP2K.


----------



## IgeNeLL (Feb 2, 2022)

cgriess said:


> Thanks for your experience with GND from the 3.5 pole. It is interesting. I think it makes it easier just to get a 2.5 to 4.4.
> 
> Yes I know line out is not the best connection. I started with the SP2K 2 years ago and didn't know where it was going then.  But I need/needed a powerful amplifier for my SP2K.


If you want to keep the sp2k, I think you should use it as a source to output the digital signal, pair with chord TT2 for example.

As my experience, If your IC have shield, does not connecting both, connect the shield to the GND pole of the 4.4 connector only.


----------



## qua2k

Andykong said:


> Yes, the system illustrated above is safe AS LONG AS C9 is not being charged, only connected to the upstream DAC (R8) by analogue/audio connections.  In fact, if you have the system on hand, you can try to charge C9 to validate our speculation. With you setup, the safe mode will response promptly and won't cause any damage.  If you proved us wrong, you have more flexibility in using the system.


I can confirm no issues with my setup. I use the LPGT in USB/DAC mode via USB-C to a computer which charges the LPGT during USB-C use connected to the C9 not charged. I have had no issues with this. To be honest, I did use the C9 a handful of times with this setup plus being charged with no issues but stopped charging the C9 simultaneously due to the posts/recommendations in this thread.


----------



## cgriess

I have written to Forza, let's see what comes out...

Thanks already for your tips.....


----------



## dadracer2

cgriess said:


> I have written to Forza, let's see what comes out...
> 
> Thanks already for your tips.....


Matt is also on the forum as Matez, so you can even PM him.


----------



## cgriess

If no answer comes I can write to him directly. 

Thanks for the hint


----------



## iFi audio

cgriess said:


> If no answer comes I can write to him directly.



A while ago in his own thread he did say that it's far better for him to receive mails rather than PMs. Actually, when it comes down to mails he's quite responsive.


----------



## raydenray

I just bought the replacement batteries for my C9. Just saw they are 30A... will that cause issues?


----------



## 14christ

I believe that is the correct battery. I know its a sony VTC series however it might be the VTC 5 series that comes with it.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

dadracer2 said:


> I didn't find a lot of tonal difference with the ifi 4.4 cable over the Cayin C9 standard cable but the soundstage was significantly improved. It seems like really great value when you see the pricing on some 4.4 IC cables.


I am amazed that people hear any differences in interconnect cables.   I use them interchangeably as if they make no difference at all.    The biggest improvement I found is using an 18 inch interconnect vs a 3 inch one.  Then, I can put my DAP on a stand.   I got the cable from Amazon.com for $6.


----------



## Slim1970

I jsut took delivery of the C9. I haven't fired it up yet, but it a beauty to look at! I was listening to the Verite's on a different setup, so I guess they'll be my first listen on the C9.


----------



## qua2k (Feb 4, 2022)

raydenray said:


> I just bought the replacement batteries for my C9. Just saw they are 30A... will that cause issues?



I use these from Orbtronic, known for being very good for rechargeable batteries... very well reviewed among vapers (if that helps lol). Higher capacity than the stock ones. No issues, have 4 in the unit and another 4 as alternates.

https://www.orbtronic.com/3500mah-18650-imr-battery-high-drain-rechargeable-orbtronic-li-ion


----------



## Mithrandir1980

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I am amazed that people hear any differences in interconnect cables.   I use them interchangeably as if they make no difference at all.    The biggest improvement I found is using an 18 inch interconnect vs a 3 inch one.  Then, I can put my DAP on a stand.   I got the cable from Amazon.com for $6.


Could you put the link to take a look at it?


----------



## blackgreen15

did my tube just burn out?


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Mithrandir1980 said:


> Could you put the link to take a look at it?


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NO73IN2?ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details&th=1

I bought a 3.5m interconnect because I just purchased a Woo Audio WA8 and it only has 3.5mm input.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Slim1970 said:


> I jsut took delivery of the C9. I haven't fired it up yet, but it a beauty to look at! I was listening to the Verite's on a different setup, so I guess they'll be my first listen on the C9.


Beautiful headphones.


----------



## elira

blackgreen15 said:


> did my tube just burn out?


Looks likely, does it still work?


----------



## blackgreen15

elira said:


> Looks likely, does it still work?


yes, still works


----------



## jmills8

blackgreen15 said:


> yes, still works


Maybe its just a light and not really the tube ?


----------



## 14christ

jmills8 said:


> Maybe its just a light and not really the tube ?


That's what it looks like to me. Simply a burned out LED


----------



## Slim1970

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Beautiful headphones.


Thank you! They sound absolutely phenomenal on the C9. Suprisingly, I'm liking the Verite's in solid state timbre, class AB mode with the Hifi-M8 V2 as the source until my Mojo 2 comes.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Slim1970 said:


> Thank you! They sound absolutely phenomenal on the C9. Suprisingly, I'm liking the Verite's in solid state timbre, class AB mode with the Hifi-M8 V2 as the source until my Mojo 2 comes.


I prefer tube timbre and Class A when paired with DX300 AMP 12 with my Verite Closed.

I am thinking about picking up either a Verite Open or Auteur.     Maybe Auteur to get something different.


----------



## 14christ

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I prefer tube timbre and Class A when paired with DX300 AMP 12 with my Verite Closed.
> 
> I am thinking about picking up either a Verite Open or Auteur.     Maybe Auteur to get something different.


Do you like mest mk2 with dx312 and c9?


----------



## Slim1970

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I prefer tube timbre and Class A when paired with DX300 AMP 12 with my Verite Closed.
> 
> I am thinking about picking up either a Verite Open or Auteur.     Maybe Auteur to get something different.


I can see that being the case. The VC are slightly brighter in the treble region than the VO's. Plus, the Hifi-M8 V2 is a warmer sounding source. In either case, the C9 is so good. It sounds better than some desktop amps I've owned.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

14christ said:


> Do you like mest mk2 with dx312 and c9?


I never heard the MEST mk2 with my C9.    But, my favorite pairing with the Indigo is my RS6 with no C9.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

I recall early in this thread there was some discussion of the C9 vs the Woo Audio WA8.    Well, I have since purchase one and have my impressions of how they are different.    I would say that they are similar in that they are both transportable devices meaning that you can take it with you when you travel.   But, the C9 is more portable.   You can carry it with you in a room when you are listening to it.    The WA8 gets way too hot to carry and it is quite a bit heavier anyway.  If it weren't as hot, you could carry it around a little bit like when you want to reheat your coffee.

Sound wise, they are quite a bit different as well.   The C9 is fundamentally a solid state device.   The WA8 is a tube amp and a dark one at that.  If anything, the C9 and WA8 are very complimentary devices.   Both can drive full sized headphones and IEMs alike.    The C9 can up the quality of the sound to any DAP.   The WA8 will add color to any sound.   It is a very tubey and dark sound.   It has a very nice sound stage that is holographic and 3D and the bass is very deep and rich.   It will take any IEM and add color or musicality to it.   For instance, you take a reference tuned IEM like the Monarch mkii and pair it with the WA8 and it gets very deep bass and out of head imaging and it is no longer reference sounding.   It's a wild and cool experience.

With full sized headphones, the WA8 does a lot better.   ZMF and HD800S really become bassy headphones.    It can actually drive Susvara to a decent level.   Not perfect, but definitely listenable.  I think the distortion it adds removes the compressed sound that I experience with the C9.  This may be an artificial sound, but it somehow works.   I am as happy with the WA8 as I am with the C9.   I plan to travel with both of them.   Maybe not together, but with at least one of them when I go.   My next trip will include CanJam NYC, so I will bring both with me in case anyone is there who wants to hear it.


----------



## Slim1970

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I recall early in this thread there was some discussion of the C9 vs the Woo Audio WA8.    Well, I have since purchase one and have my impressions of how they are different.    I would say that they are similar in that they are both transportable devices meaning that you can take it with you when you travel.   But, the C9 is more portable.   You can carry it with you in a room when you are listening to it.    The WA8 gets way too hot to carry and it is quite a bit heavier anyway.  If it weren't as hot, you could carry it around a little bit like when you want to reheat your coffee.
> 
> Sound wise, they are quite a bit different as well.   The C9 is fundamentally a solid state device.   The WA8 is a tube amp and a dark one at that.  If anything, the C9 and WA8 are very complimentary devices.   Both can drive full sized headphones and IEMs alike.    The C9 can up the quality of the sound to any DAP.   The WA8 will add color to any sound.   It is a very tubey and dark sound.   It has a very nice sound stage that is holographic and 3D and the bass is very deep and rich.   It will take any IEM and add color or musicality to it.   For instance, you take a reference tuned IEM like the Monarch mkii and pair it with the WA8 and it gets very deep bass and out of head imaging and it is no longer reference sounding.   It's a wild and cool experience.
> 
> With full sized headphones, the WA8 does a lot better.   ZMF and HD800S really become bassy headphones.    It can actually drive Susvara to a decent level.   Not perfect, but definitely listenable.  I think the distortion it adds removes the compressed sound that I experience with the C9.  This may be an artificial sound, but it somehow works.   I am as happy with the WA8 as I am with the C9.   I plan to travel with both of them.   Maybe not together, but with at least one of them when I go.   My next trip will include CanJam NYC, so I will bring both with me in case anyone is there who wants to hear it.


I've been contemplating about owning a WA8 since hearing it with ZMF headphones at a local meet. It definitely fairs very well the VC's and VO's. Very nice comparison.

I'm interested in your comment about the "compressed sound " you're hearing with the C9. Can you elaborate?


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Slim1970 said:


> I've been contemplating about owning a WA8 since hearing it with ZMF headphones at a local meet. It definitely fairs very well the VC's and VO's. Very nice comparison.
> 
> I'm interested in your comment about the "compressed sound " you're hearing with the C9. Can you elaborate?


the compressed sound is when the C9 is driving the Susvara.    The Hifiman Susvara is a notoriously hard to drive headphone.  People use speaker amps to drive it.   

I wondered what how the Susvara would sound with the C9.   On a scale of 1-10 where 1 is unlistenable.   10 is a perfect amp.   And 5 is minimally listenable, the DX312+C9 combination is about 4.5-5.  Some music sounds okay, but most music sounds compressed.  This means the sound stage is dramatically narrowed and the sound in thin.

With the VC, it sounds great.  Same with HD800S and Hifiman HE1000SE and v2.


----------



## Slim1970

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> the compressed sound is when the C9 is driving the Susvara.    The Hifiman Susvara is a notoriously hard to drive headphone.  People use speaker amps to drive it.
> 
> I wondered what how the Susvara would sound with the C9.   On a scale of 1-10 where 1 is unlistenable.   10 is a perfect amp.   And 5 is minimally listenable, the DX312+C9 combination is about 4.5-5.  Some music sounds okay, but most music sounds compressed.  This means the sound stage is dramatically narrowed and the sound in thin.
> 
> With the VC, it sounds great.  Same with HD800S and Hifiman HE1000SE and v2.


Oh okay, yes the Susvara’s are a pain in the but to drive. They are excellent headphones when driven properly. I sold my set because I got tired of trying to build a setup around one headphone. To be honest, my headphone listening experience has gotten a lot better because of it. 

I’m thinking about reacquiring the HEK V2’s. I like their tone a little bit better the HEKse’s, which I also owned.


----------



## Jeffyue

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I recall early in this thread there was some discussion of the C9 vs the Woo Audio WA8.    Well, I have since purchase one and have my impressions of how they are different.    I would say that they are similar in that they are both transportable devices meaning that you can take it with you when you travel.   But, the C9 is more portable.   You can carry it with you in a room when you are listening to it.    The WA8 gets way too hot to carry and it is quite a bit heavier anyway.  If it weren't as hot, you could carry it around a little bit like when you want to reheat your coffee.
> 
> Sound wise, they are quite a bit different as well.   The C9 is fundamentally a solid state device.   The WA8 is a tube amp and a dark one at that.  If anything, the C9 and WA8 are very complimentary devices.   Both can drive full sized headphones and IEMs alike.    The C9 can up the quality of the sound to any DAP.   The WA8 will add color to any sound.   It is a very tubey and dark sound.   It has a very nice sound stage that is holographic and 3D and the bass is very deep and rich.   It will take any IEM and add color or musicality to it.   For instance, you take a reference tuned IEM like the Monarch mkii and pair it with the WA8 and it gets very deep bass and out of head imaging and it is no longer reference sounding.   It's a wild and cool experience.
> 
> With full sized headphones, the WA8 does a lot better.   ZMF and HD800S really become bassy headphones.    It can actually drive Susvara to a decent level.   Not perfect, but definitely listenable.  I think the distortion it adds removes the compressed sound that I experience with the C9.  This may be an artificial sound, but it somehow works.   I am as happy with the WA8 as I am with the C9.   I plan to travel with both of them.   Maybe not together, but with at least one of them when I go.   My next trip will include CanJam NYC, so I will bring both with me in case anyone is there who wants to hear it.


If you have chance, try the Millard tube as well... Sounds fuller and fantastic compared to the stock tube...


----------



## Nostoi

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I recall early in this thread there was some discussion of the C9 vs the Woo Audio WA8.    Well, I have since purchase one and have my impressions of how they are different.    I would say that they are similar in that they are both transportable devices meaning that you can take it with you when you travel.   But, the C9 is more portable.   You can carry it with you in a room when you are listening to it.    The WA8 gets way too hot to carry and it is quite a bit heavier anyway.  If it weren't as hot, you could carry it around a little bit like when you want to reheat your coffee.
> 
> Sound wise, they are quite a bit different as well.   The C9 is fundamentally a solid state device.   The WA8 is a tube amp and a dark one at that.  If anything, the C9 and WA8 are very complimentary devices.   Both can drive full sized headphones and IEMs alike.    The C9 can up the quality of the sound to any DAP.   The WA8 will add color to any sound.   It is a very tubey and dark sound.   It has a very nice sound stage that is holographic and 3D and the bass is very deep and rich.   It will take any IEM and add color or musicality to it.   For instance, you take a reference tuned IEM like the Monarch mkii and pair it with the WA8 and it gets very deep bass and out of head imaging and it is no longer reference sounding.   It's a wild and cool experience.
> 
> With full sized headphones, the WA8 does a lot better.   ZMF and HD800S really become bassy headphones.    It can actually drive Susvara to a decent level.   Not perfect, but definitely listenable.  I think the distortion it adds removes the compressed sound that I experience with the C9.  This may be an artificial sound, but it somehow works.   I am as happy with the WA8 as I am with the C9.   I plan to travel with both of them.   Maybe not together, but with at least one of them when I go.   My next trip will include CanJam NYC, so I will bring both with me in case anyone is there who wants to hear it.


I've sometimes contemplated getting a WA8 as a compliment to the C9, so this is interesting to read. What's your preference for driving the VC?


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Slim1970 said:


> Oh okay, yes the Susvara’s are a pain in the but to drive. They are excellent headphones when driven properly. I sold my set because I got tired of trying to build a setup around one headphone. To be honest, my headphone listening experience has gotten a lot better because of it.
> 
> I’m thinking about reacquiring the HEK V2’s. I like their tone a little bit better the HEKse’s, which I also owned.


I've owned Ananda, Arya, HE1000v2, HE1000SE and Susvara.   I liked them all for slightly different reasons and decided to keep only Susvara and HE1000v2 for the following reasons.   First, the Susvara is one of the best headphones I have ever heard.   The only one that competes with it is the Abyss 1266 Phi TC.   So, it's currently my number 1 headphone.   It's hard to drive, but worth the effort and limitations to get that sound.  Second, since the Sus is hard to drive, I can't travel with it.  Since I love the Hifiman sound, I decided to choose the HE1000v2 due to its superior tuning to the HE1000SE.  I find the SE to be too bright.   However, when I EQ the SE, I prefer it to the v2 as I find it much more technically competent.   But, since it is for travel and the v2 does not require EQ, I decided to keep it instead of the SE.  Third, there was too much overlap in the sound to keep all of them.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Feb 5, 2022)

Nostoi said:


> I've sometimes contemplated getting a WA8 as a compliment to the C9, so this is interesting to read. What's your preference for driving the VC?


With the VC in particular, I prefer the WA8 because as you know, the VC sounds better with tubes.    The WA8 provides more bass impact on the low end frequencies and the tube sound enhances the VC reverberant house sound.     The main difference between the C9 and WA8 is that the C9 is the more transparent amp whereas the WA8 is the warmer alternative.    They turn out to be more complementary than I expected.   I think it is worth owning both.   If I could only have one, I would probably pick the C9 because it will most likely hit more musical preferences across music genre and sources since it provides a more transparent sound.   But, what the WA8 does well, it does very well.

As an aside, when comparing the WA8 to my Ampsandsound Rockwell, the Rockwell is obviously much richer and more resolving and it is most noticeable in the midrange and treble frequencies.  However, given its warmer presentation, the WA8 actually has more bass impact than the Rockwell.   So, it adds a nice bass oriented tube sound to my collection.

I got to audition the WA5 and WA7 and I much prefer the WA8 sound.    You could use it as your only tube amp.   It is a real tube amp giving you tube distortion as opposed to a solid state hybrid tube amp.


----------



## Slim1970

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I've owned Ananda, Arya, HE1000v2, HE1000SE and Susvara.   I liked them all for slightly different reasons and decided to keep only Susvara and HE1000v2 for the following reasons.   First, the Susvara is one of the best headphones I have ever heard.   The only one that competes with it is the Abyss 1266 Phi TC.   So, it's currently my number 1 headphone.   It's hard to drive, but worth the effort and limitations to get that sound.  Second, since the Sus is hard to drive, I can't travel with it.  Since I love the Hifiman sound, I decided to choose the HE1000v2 due to its superior tuning to the HE1000SE.  I find the SE to be too bright.   However, when I EQ the SE, I prefer it to the v2 as I find it much more technically competent.   But, since it is for travel and the v2 does not require EQ, I decided to keep it instead of the SE.  Third, there was too much overlap in the sound to keep all of them.


Agreed, that's why I got rid of the HEKse's and kept the Susvara's because of the overlap in sound. They are close, but the Susvara's tuning is far superior. I just got tired of fiddling around with amps for the Susvara's. I was always trying to get the best sound out of them. So I was always exploring different amps for them and never really enjoying them for what they were.

I'm with you about EQ'ing the HEKse's. They become a different animal with EQ and they are the more technical headphone in comparison to the HEK V2.  What the HEK V2 has over the HEKse's is tone. The HEK V2's  have incredible tonality and is more musically pleasing than the HEKse's. Both are great headphones!


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Slim1970 said:


> Agreed, that's why I got rid of the HEKse's and kept the Susvara's because of the overlap in sound. They are close, but the Susvara's tuning is far superior. I just got tired of fiddling around with amps for the Susvara's. I was always trying to get the best sound out of them. So I was always exploring different amps for them and never really enjoying them for what they were.
> 
> I'm with you about EQ'ing the HEKse's. They become a different animal with EQ and they are the more technical headphone in comparison to the HEK V2.  What the HEK V2 has over the HEKse's is tone. The HEK V2's  have incredible tonality and is more musically pleasing than the HEKse's. Both are great headphones!


I completely agree.


----------



## 51days

@Nostoi I see you own M17 and C9/L6K. Any short statement about how both « setups » compare to each other (soundwise only)?


----------



## soundblast75

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I never heard the MEST mk2 with my C9.    But, my favorite pairing with the Indigo is my RS6 with no C9.


Mest2 are one of the reasons i keep C9, beasts with it


----------



## Nostoi

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> With the VC in particular, I prefer the WA8 because as you know, the VC sounds better with tubes.    The WA8 provides more bass impact on the low end frequencies and the tube sound enhances the VC reverberant house sound.     The main difference between the C9 and WA8 is that the C9 is the more transparent amp whereas the WA8 is the warmer alternative.    They turn out to be more complementary than I expected.   I think it is worth owning both.   If I could only have one, I would probably pick the C9 because it will most likely hit more musical preferences across music genre and sources since it provides a more transparent sound.   But, what the WA8 does well, it does very well.
> 
> As an aside, when comparing the WA8 to my Ampsandsound Rockwell, the Rockwell is obviously much richer and more resolving and it is most noticeable in the midrange and treble frequencies.  However, given its warmer presentation, the WA8 actually has more bass impact than the Rockwell.   So, it adds a nice bass oriented tube sound to my collection.
> 
> I got to audition the WA5 and WA7 and I much prefer the WA8 sound.    You could use it as your only tube amp.   It is a real tube amp giving you tube distortion as opposed to a solid state hybrid tube amp.


Thank you, this is super informative and very promising. Do you use the WA8 with your TT2?


----------



## Nostoi (Feb 5, 2022)

51days said:


> @Nostoi I see you own M17 and C9/L6K. Any short statement about how both « setups » compare to each other (soundwise only)?


I owned the L6K in the past but swapped for N6ii and its various modules. Basically, the M17 is the best standalone DAP I've heard in terms of its ability to fully drive headphones but the N6ii (E02 & A02) with C9 outclasses it in terms of dynamics and resolution. It's not night and day, but the C9 is a step ahead.


----------



## 51days

Nostoi said:


> I owned the L6K in the past but swapped for N6ii and its various modules. Basically, the M17 is the best standalone DAP I've heard in terms of its ability to fully drive headphones but the N6ii (E02 & A02) with C9 outclassees it in terms of dynamics and resolution. It's not night and day, but the C9 is a step ahead.


Thanks, short and clear answer.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Nostoi said:


> Thank you, this is super informative and very promising. Do you use the WA8 with your TT2?


No.   My TT2 is paired with the Rockwell.   It is by far the best set up I own.   It is my main listening system for all of my headphones.

The WA8 is great with IEMs as it gives full tube sound to IEMs.   I haven't heard anything else drive IEMs in this way.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Nostoi said:


> I owned the L6K in the past but swapped for N6ii and its various modules. Basically, the M17 is the best standalone DAP I've heard in terms of its ability to fully drive headphones but the N6ii (E02 & A02) with C9 outclasses it in terms of dynamics and resolution. It's not night and day, but the C9 is a step ahead.


This is good to know.   I am still waiting for my N6ii Ti to show up.  I did purchase an E02 module.  Still looking for an A02.    I should find it at some point in the future.  For now, I will have the R01 and E02.


----------



## Nostoi (Feb 5, 2022)

51days said:


> Thanks, short and clear answer.


I have a far lengthier two stage comparison of the M17 vs (and with) the C9 on the M17 thread if it's helpful, but what I mentioned above is basically the conclusion.

Edit here https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...d-in-2022-01-25.954441/page-133#post-16753350


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Nostoi said:


> I have a far lengthier two stage comparison of the M17 vs (and with) the C9 on the M17 thread if it's helpful, but what I mentioned above is basically the conclusion.
> 
> Edit here https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...d-in-2022-01-25.954441/page-133#post-16753350


How did the M17 + C9 sound?


----------



## 51days (Feb 5, 2022)

Nostoi said:


> I have a far lengthier two stage comparison of the M17 vs (and with) the C9 on the M17 thread if it's helpful, but what I mentioned above is basically the conclusion.
> 
> Edit here https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...d-in-2022-01-25.954441/page-133#post-16753350


Thanks for the extra input and the link. Your conclusion maybe is what I only need, will read the whole text, though.

Not really a newcomer in the portable audio world here, but I am now looking for building a totl transportable system around some different kind of IEMs with specific signatures and tunings (planar, single DD and BAs). The C9 is the swiss knife I needed to start this process.

Even if I am very satisfied with the AK SR25 MK2 (also as a standalone device), the next step is upgrading the DAP. N8II and Dethonray DTR1+ on the radar.


----------



## Nostoi

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> How did the M17 + C9 sound?


Weirdly enough, a bit underwhelming. I'm not sure if it's a synergy thing or if it's something to do with the line out on the M17, but it just wasn't there in the way it is with N6ii (and TT2). M17 generally sounds better on its own.


----------



## Nostoi

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> This is good to know.   I am still waiting for my N6ii Ti to show up.  I did purchase an E02 module.  Still looking for an A02.    I should find it at some point in the future.  For now, I will have the R01 and E02.


E02 is superb. If you can somehow track down the A02, too, then you'll have the best of both worlds in terms of timbre.


----------



## dadracer2

Nostoi said:


> E02 is superb. If you can somehow track down the A02, too, then you'll have the best of both worlds in terms of timbre.


What would you say your preference is between the A02 and E02 when combined with the C9 and via your HD800s? Does one give better soundstaging than the other and how do they differ in their handling of vocals?


----------



## Nostoi

dadracer2 said:


> What would you say your preference is between the A02 and E02 when combined with the C9 and via your HD800s? Does one give better soundstaging than the other and how do they differ in their handling of vocals?


For HD800s, I think A02 is probably a better pairing because it adds a little warmth/heft in the lower mids. The E02 has incredible dynamics, but it's also ever so slightly v-shaped, and that's less of a fit for HD800s (though for ZMF VC, works a great). Soundstage and general technicalities about the same, I'd say for vocals, A02 works exceptionally well across the range, but with E02 female vocals are especially striking.


----------



## dadracer2

Thanks that was how I felt it might be from your previous threads. I’d love to have had the option of a line out on the R01 as that would have been the one DAC to rule them all….


----------



## gazzington

This amp certainly makes the final a8000 so much better. Impressive amp


----------



## Nostoi (Feb 7, 2022)

gazzington said:


> This amp certainly makes the final a8000 so much better. Impressive amp



Agreed. I've been listening to E02/C9 this morning with the Kennerton Rognir Planar. I can't imagine a transportable set-up sounding better. If I "only" had this as my main set-up, I'd be more than happy. M17 is good, but doesn't compete with N6ii/C9 as a source.

My only quibble about the C9 is that I wish I could leave it permanently plugged in on some kind of desktop mode, as it pairs so nicely with the TT2, too.


----------



## Slim1970 (Feb 7, 2022)

Nostoi said:


> Agreed. I've been listening to E02/C9 this morning with the Kennerton Rognir Planar. I can't imagine a transportable set-up sounding better. If I "only" had this as my main set-up, I'd be more than happy. M17 is good, but doesn't compete with N6ii/C9 as a source.
> 
> My only quibble about the C9 is that I wish I could leave it permanently plugged in on some kind of desktop mode, as it pairs so nicely with the TT2, too.


A desktop mode would be insane on the C9. It’s funny that you mentioned hooking it up to your TT2. I was thinking about doing the same with my Dave, haha! Overkill, yes but would it fun to see how it performs, heck yes!!


----------



## Nostoi

Slim1970 said:


> A desKoop mode would be insane on the C9. It’s funny that you mentioned hooking it up to your TT2. I was thinking about doing the same with my Dave, haha! Overkill, yes but would it fun to see how it performs, heck yes!!


I was already surprised with how good it sounds with the TT2 both on RCA and XLR, so I can only imagine it'll also sound great with Dave. It's a testament to the quality of the C9 that it can scale so much!


----------



## dadracer2

Nostoi said:


> Agreed. I've been listening to E02/C9 this morning with the Kennerton Rognir Planar. I can't imagine a transportable set-up sounding better. If I "only" had this as my main set-up, I'd be more than happy. M17 is good, but doesn't compete with N6ii/C9 as a source.
> 
> My only quibble about the C9 is that I wish I could leave it permanently plugged in on some kind of desktop mode, as it pairs so nicely with the TT2, too.


Maybe something for Cayin to consider for the C9ii?????


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Nostoi said:


> Agreed. I've been listening to E02/C9 this morning with the Kennerton Rognir Planar. I can't imagine a transportable set-up sounding better. If I "only" had this as my main set-up, I'd be more than happy. M17 is good, but doesn't compete with N6ii/C9 as a source.
> 
> My only quibble about the C9 is that I wish I could leave it permanently plugged in on some kind of desktop mode, as it pairs so nicely with the TT2, too.


I bought the battery module and keep my second set of batteries in it.  So, when the C9 runs out of juice, I can just swap the battery module and plug in the drained module.   This works very well and it has a small profile so it is easy to travel with.    This mostly mitigates the issue of not having a desktop mode for the C9.


----------



## DaYooper

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I bought the battery module and keep my second set of batteries in it.  So, when the C9 runs out of juice, I can just swap the battery module and plug in the drained module.   This works very well and it has a small profile so it is easy to travel with.    This mostly mitigates the issue of not having a desktop mode for the C9.


I agree. Still has to be plugged into a charger for about ten seconds to take out of protective mode. A minor inconvenience.


----------



## Nostoi

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I bought the battery module and keep my second set of batteries in it.  So, when the C9 runs out of juice, I can just swap the battery module and plug in the drained module.   This works very well and it has a small profile so it is easy to travel with.    This mostly mitigates the issue of not having a desktop mode for the C9.


I have that 2nd battery module, too, though somehow hardly use it, which is odd. But, indeed, thanks for reminding me about this.


----------



## Nostoi

dadracer2 said:


> Maybe something for Cayin to consider for the C9ii?????


I think it was mentioned earlier in this thread, and for one reason or another, didn't seem an option for Cayin. Can't remember why....


----------



## dadracer2

Nostoi said:


> I think it was mentioned earlier in this thread, and for one reason or another, didn't seem an option for Cayin. Can't remember why....


Maybe not enough space on the boards? The extra battery pack sounds like a good option though.


----------



## Slim1970

Nostoi said:


> I have that 2nd battery module, too, though somehow hardly use it, which is odd. But, indeed, thanks for reminding me about this.


Where did you get the extra battery modules from?


----------



## armstrj2

Slim1970 said:


> Where did you get the extra battery modules from?


MusicTeck were selling them for $99 but I can't seem to find them on the site now to share a link. Possibly out of stock.


----------



## Slim1970

armstrj2 said:


> MusicTeck were selling them for $99 but I can't seem to find them on the site now to share a link. Possibly out of stock.


I'm looking on the web to find one. I'm having no luck.


----------



## armstrj2

Slim1970 said:


> I'm looking on the web to find one. I'm having no luck.


MusicTeck was the only place in the western world I could find one before. This is the archived product page link from when it was available. Maybe give MusicTeck a shout tomorrow and see if they can source another one for you.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

armstrj2 said:


> MusicTeck were selling them for $99 but I can't seem to find them on the site now to share a link. Possibly out of stock.


Whoa, you are right.  I just saw it on the Musicteck site recently.  I guess they are sold out.   Glad I have one.


----------



## Slim1970

Dang. I guess that's what I get for being late to the party on obtaining a C9, haha!


----------



## armstrj2

Slim1970 said:


> Dang. I guess that's what I get for being late to the party on obtaining a C9, haha!


You can buy generic chargers and a spare set of batteries. It's not as neat or as quick but still effective. Something like this.


----------



## Slim1970

armstrj2 said:


> You can buy generic chargers and a spare set of batteries. It's not as neat or as quick but still effective. Something like this.


I have a good charger. The battery module would let me swap out the battery packs on the go if needed be to keep listening. I guess it's not that big of a concern since the C9 has pretty good battery life.


----------



## jlemaster1957

Andrew at Musicteck will take care of you. 

This is the first and last most important lesson.

I ordered the C9 from Musicteck “like new” (which is ‘open box’). They arrived a few days later with all original accoutrements , but I could not get it to switch on. Lo and behold the batteries were not within. No worries, Andrew  sent them out to me. They arrived a few days later, but still no life from the C9. I had ordered a backup set of new 18650’s for the extra charger (which I had ordered from Andrew when he still had some in stock). Finally they arrived today and all is well. Andrew was ready for me to return the C9 for testing to Musicteck. I have no doubt he would have exchanged it had it been defective. 

This all took the better part of a month to sort out. 

Here is the end of the saying: (St.) Andrew will take care of you. You must not panic. You must work the problem. It will be alright. When the C9 light comes on, sing for joy. 

Btw Class A + tubes all the way! Halo infinite via Monarch Mk2s 4.4 mm in and out. Mmmm— I have been waiting for this, it’s sooo goooood….


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

jlemaster1957 said:


> Andrew at Musicteck will take care of you.
> 
> This is the first and last most important lesson.
> 
> ...


Andrew is fantastic.   Good thing he supports so many audio products.   We can always count on great service from him.

My favorite pairing for driving Monarch mkii is Hiby RS6 + C9, class A, tube timbre


----------



## jlemaster1957 (Feb 8, 2022)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Andrew is fantastic.   Good thing he supports so many audio products.   We can always count on great service from him.
> 
> My favorite pairing for driving Monarch mkii is Hiby RS6 + C9, class A, tube timbre


My DAP is the R8. I think you were very wise to go with RS6, as @twister6 said in his C9 review, the R8 is itself already very, very good but costs >$1000 more. But I affirm the bigger stage and greater detail/separation adding C9. I appreciate all the comments about N6ii + C9, one day I may be tempted to diversify in that direction. But for now I have reached the point where I should stop and just enjoy what I have. And be thankful. I am aware I am the recipient of something very special.


----------



## Nostoi

Slim1970 said:


> Where did you get the extra battery modules from?


Also from Musicteck. But maybe worth asking @Andykong if there's any surplus stock...


----------



## Slim1970

Nostoi said:


> Also from Musicteck. But maybe worth asking @Andykong if there's any surplus stock...


Got call! I’ll get in contact with Andy, thanks!


----------



## jlemaster1957

Slim1970 said:


> Got call! I’ll get in contact with Andy, thanks!


Btw current source for Sony VTC6 18650 batteries in stock- www.BatteryMart.com. They have been difficult to source and until recently were on back order. Musicteck does NOT stock these you must get them externally and be careful as there are a lot of fakes on the market, see


----------



## ctaxxxx

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Andrew is fantastic.   Good thing he supports so many audio products.   We can always count on great service from him.
> 
> My favorite pairing for driving Monarch mkii is Hiby RS6 + C9, class A, tube timbre



Seeing that you have both the WA8 and the RS6, which do you prefer if someone wanted a warmer sound than the C9 (Class A, Tube)? 

I've been thinking of trying a R2R dap, but your post on the WA8 is interesting too. 

Has anyone heard the Oriolus BA300S portable tube amp as well? This seems like the cheapest option to me.


----------



## jmills8

ctaxxxx said:


> Seeing that you have both the WA8 and the RS6, which do you prefer if someone wanted a warmer sound than the C9 (Class A, Tube)?
> 
> I've been thinking of trying a R2R dap, but your post on the WA8 is interesting too.
> 
> Has anyone heard the Oriolus BA300S portable tube amp as well? This seems like the cheapest option to me.


The ba300s is meh , not detailed nor tubey.


----------



## Mithrandir1980

jlemaster1957 said:


> Andrew at Musicteck will take care of you.
> 
> This is the first and last most important lesson.
> 
> ...


I had the same problem with my distributor in Spain Zococity.

 I bought a new sealed C9 and it wouldn't turn on.

 I talked to them and they sent me a replacement that I also used for the first time and it didn't turn on either.

 Noa contacted Cayin, both them and I each on our own without knowing that @Andykong was solving it and in the end and thanks to his help I bought an external battery charger and extracted and charged them outside the C9 since it did not turn on and it did not load

 A couple of hours later the batteries had been resurrected and they continue to fight to this day.

 They were so discharged that the C9 was unable to recharge them.

 Now I'm happy with my brick and my DX300 😜


----------



## jlemaster1957 (Feb 9, 2022)

Mithrandir1980 said:


> I had the same problem with my distributor in Spain Zococity.
> 
> I bought a new sealed C9 and it wouldn't turn on.
> 
> ...


Yes - I think what is happening is that some of the new C9s are sitting on a shelf, and the batteries in them are gradually self-discharging and losing the capacity to be recharged. After they sit too long they may become irrecoverable.

I’m interested to learn what external battery charger you used to recover your ‘dead’ lithium batteries? The C9 battery charging unit does not seem to do the job- the dead batteries I have  just flash the 4th light for a few seconds then 4 solid lights- but they are not charged up by leaving them in the charger connected for a longer time. It seems to me that to recover them, if they can be recovered, may require a charger with sufficient voltage that I would be nervous to do it without taking advice from someone that is more expert in electrics than me.

For a new buyer I recommend before deciding that your new C9 is defective and sending it back- buy a new set of 18650 batteries, test them to be sure they are themselves not deeply discharged (as they too may have sat on a shelf for too long) and then try the C9 again after you install them. And keep using your C9 -by frequently charging and discharging these batteries (between tbe first and fourth lights) will maintain capacity for a long time  A good electrical multi-meter - to check on battery health- costs about $10.USD- probably a good investment fellow C9’ers!


----------



## Mithrandir1980

jlemaster1957 said:


> Yes - I think what is happening is that some of the new C9s are sitting on a shelf, and the batteries in them are gradually self-discharging and losing the capacity to be recharged. After they sit too long they may become irrecoverable.
> 
> I’m interested to learn what external battery charger you used to recover your ‘dead’ lithium batteries? The C9 battery charging unit does not seem to do the job- the dead batteries I have  just flash the 4th light for a few seconds then 4 solid lights- but they are not charged up by leaving them in the charger connected for a longer time. It seems to me that to recover them, if they can be recovered, may require a charger with sufficient voltage that I would be nervous to do it without taking advice from someone that is more expert in electrics than me.
> 
> For a new buyer I recommend before deciding that your new C9 is defective and sending it back- buy a new set of 18650 batteries, test them to be sure they are themselves not deeply discharged (as they too may have sat on a shelf for too long) and then try the C9 again after you install them. And keep using your C9 -by frequently charging and discharging these batteries (between tbe first and fourth lights) will maintain capacity for a long time  A good electrical multi-meter - to check on battery health- costs about $10.USD- probably a good investment fellow C9’ers!


Sure, I bought a multimeter and found that the charge was quite low.

So I ordered this charger from Amazon:
Intelligent Charger, Snado LCD...

And putting it to low amperage in 2 or 3 hours the batteries revived.

 Since then I have been using them and they have not given me any problems.


----------



## Nostoi

jmills8 said:


> The ba300s is meh , not detailed nor tubey.


Agreed. Very underwhelming.


----------



## jlemaster1957

Mithrandir1980 said:


> Sure, I bought a multimeter and found that the charge was quite low.
> 
> So I ordered this charger from Amazon:
> Intelligent Charger, Snado LCD...
> ...


Perfect! Thanks will also try that. 
JL


----------



## woodcans

Selling my C9 with extra batteries, extra battery tray/charger & case. 

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/cayin-c9-combo-case-battery-tray-extra-batteries.19780/


----------



## jlemaster1957

woodcans said:


> Selling my C9 with extra batteries, extra battery tray/charger & case.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/cayin-c9-combo-case-battery-tray-extra-batteries.19780/


Why are you selling it, if I may ask?


----------



## jlemaster1957

Has anyone else noticed that the C9 seems to improve the SQ of low-mid FI IEMs more than higher end? I am definitely hearing a lot better imaging and wider/deeper staging in my UM 3DTs and Ikko OH-10s, as well as better micro-dynamics, which has surprised me. The Monarch Mk2 is better too, but it was already pretty great. I’m listening from an R8 DAP source.


----------



## ECKHUAAA

Andykong said:


> As per to my previous post on this subject (*HERE*), I have stated that the "N8ii is designed around a pair of current mode DAC chipset that we have never used before. To the best of our knowledge, this DAC chipset has never been used by any portable DAP so far."  Clearly N8ii is not R-2R based when I said we used dual DAC chipset in the new player.


This new DAC for the N8 ii would yield an even better more detailed and natural organic sound than the R-2R that you currently feature on the extremely successful N6 II?


----------



## dadracer2

ECKHUAAA said:


> This new DAC for the N8 ii would yield an even better more detailed and natural organic sound than the R-2R that you currently feature on the extremely successful N6 II?


I think you will not hear anything additional about the N8ii until after the Chinese New Year...


----------



## jlemaster1957

dadracer2 said:


> I think you will not hear anything additional about the N8ii until after the Chinese New Year...


Yes @Andykong said they are all away for that. They should be back after the middle of the month.


----------



## 51days

THE amp at work. N8ii, we are waiting for you!


----------



## twister6

51days said:


> THE amp at work. N8ii, we are waiting for you!



So, what's going to happen to your C9 when N8ii is released?


----------



## 51days

twister6 said:


> So, what's going to happen to your C9 when N8ii is released?


It never will leave my house that’s for sure    🤫😁


----------



## jlemaster1957 (Feb 12, 2022)

51days said:


> It never will leave my house that’s for sure    🤫😁


My question is: would not the C9 be superfluous if one bought N8ii?- if, for instance, the N8 included the same DAC chip as the old N8 but all the C9 amplification possibilities, and a true LO (if…) would LO from that device to the C9 not give the same SQ as the N8ii on its own (listening via PO)?  And if one has the C9, why then buy such an N8ii? Why not a DAP that has the same DAC chip (and similar implementation) and a true LO, with much lower-Fi amplification and go on using it with the C9. For me, the ideal next step would be for Cayin to produce and distribute more A02 boards for the N6ii. I might be enticed to go for an N6ii then instead…and keep the C9.


----------



## 51days

jlemaster1957 said:


> My question is: would not the C9 be superfluous if one bought N8ii?- if, for instance, the N8 included the same DAC chip as the old N8 but all the C9 amplification possibilities, and a try LO (if…) would LO from that device to the C9 not give the same SQ as the N8ii on its own (listening via PO)?  And if one has the C9, why then buy such an N8ii? Why not a DAP that has the same DAC chip (and similar implementation) and a true LO, with much lower-Fi amplification and go on using it with the C9. For me, the ideal next step would be for Cayin to produce and distribute more A02 boards for the N6ii. I might be enticed to go for an N6ii then instead…and keep the C9.


The C9 cannot be superfluous, given the several flavors available via the different settings. Moreover, the N8ii is not the only DAP I will own, so the C9 still will be relevant until proved otherwise. Finally, owning both devices is cool and Audio is not about being reasonable.

But yes, I get your point and I agree with it for the most part.


----------



## Nostoi

jlemaster1957 said:


> My question is: would not the C9 be superfluous if one bought N8ii?- if, for instance, the N8 included the same DAC chip as the old N8 but all the C9 amplification possibilities, and a true LO (if…) would LO from that device to the C9 not give the same SQ as the N8ii on its own (listening via PO)?  And if one has the C9, why then buy such an N8ii? Why not a DAP that has the same DAC chip (and similar implementation) and a true LO, with much lower-Fi amplification and go on using it with the C9. For me, the ideal next step would be for Cayin to produce and distribute more A02 boards for the N6ii. I might be enticed to go for an N6ii then instead…and keep the C9.


The N8ii offers a different DAC architecture than A02, so there's no overlap here. N8 OG and A02 with C9 - yes, you don't need both. I will absolutely keep keeping my C9 when the N8ii arrives, as the C9 has such a versatile range of uses to it.

I do agree that mid-fi DAP with well implemented line out and a decent DAC chip is the best use for the C9.


----------



## dadracer2

Nostoi said:


> The N8ii offers a different DAC architecture than A02, so there's no overlap here. N8 OG and A02 with C9 - yes, you don't need both. I will absolutely keep keeping my C9 when the N8ii arrives, as the C9 has such a versatile range of uses to it.
> 
> I do agree that mid-fi DAP with well implemented line out and a decent DAC chip is the best use for the C9.


Yes I agree about the new DAC chipset for the N8ii as it is new for any DAP as far as I know and so that will be the major difference. The amp section of the N8ii might also be a little different to the C9, but who knows (only Cayin!).

The N6ii (with E02) plus C9 was compared head to head with the N8 by Twister6 and it seems like he preferred the N6ii combo so it is going to be an interesting time when the N8ii does break cover.

It is good to live in interesting times...


----------



## twister6

dadracer2 said:


> Yes I agree about the new DAC chipset for the N8ii as it is new for any DAP as far as I know and so that will be the major difference. The amp section of the N8ii might also be a little different to the C9, but who knows (only Cayin!).
> 
> The N6ii (with E02) plus C9 was compared head to head with the N8 by Twister6 and it seems like he preferred the N6ii combo so it is going to be an interesting time when the N8ii does break cover.
> 
> It is good to live in interesting times...



Noted, N6ii/E02+C9 vs N8ii (LO)+C9 vs N8ii...


----------



## Nostoi

twister6 said:


> Noted, N6ii/E02+C9 vs N8ii (LO)+C9 vs N8ii...


Did you ever demo/review the A02 with the C9? I can't see any mention on your site. Along with E02, this is where the C9 really sings, if you ask me.


----------



## dadracer2

Nostoi said:


> Did you ever demo/review the A02 with the C9? I can't see any mention on your site. Along with E02, this is where the C9 really sings, if you ask me.


I'm pretty sure he didn't as the A02 was the only module he did not try/review.....sadly. Unless he has done so subsequently or someone has lent him one.


----------



## twister6

Nostoi said:


> Did you ever demo/review the A02 with the C9? I can't see any mention on your site. Along with E02, this is where the C9 really sings, if you ask me.



Sorry, don't have any experience with A02.


----------



## Nostoi

twister6 said:


> Sorry, don't have any experience with A02.


A shame that someone didn't send you one for review. Would do it myself were it not for the fact I'm in Europe.


----------



## dadracer2

Nostoi said:


> A shame that someone didn't send you one for review. Would do it myself were it not for the fact I'm in Europe.


Maybe @Andykong could lend him one????


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Feb 13, 2022)

Nostoi said:


> Did you ever demo/review the A02 with the C9? I can't see any mention on your site. Along with E02, this is where the C9 really sings, if you ask me.


I bought an N6ii Ti and an E02 module.    Since I am travelling, I didn’t get a chance to extensively A/B test it, but my initial impressions are as follows:

1.  I slightly preferred N6ii Ti R01 over RS6.
2.  N6ii with E02 is comparable to DX312 with C9.
3.  RS6 + C9 blows away N6ii + E02 + C9.    So much so, that I don’t need the E02 anymore.
4.  I need to find an A02 module.

Since I can pair my midfi DAPs with C9 or WA8, I don’t feel a need to buy N8ii.

RS6 really meets all of my needs.   Perfect size for portability.   Fast OS.   Built in line out that sounds and works great.   The only thing I don’t like is the volume control.

It doesn’t bother me that N6ii runs Android 8.1.   It’s fast enough.    I don’t like needing to swap modules.


----------



## Nostoi

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I bought an N6ii Ti and an E02 module.    Since I am travelling, I didn’t get a chance to extensively A/B test it, but my initial impressions are as follows:
> 
> 1.  I slightly preferred N6ii Ti R01 over RS6.
> 2.  N6ii with E02 is comparable to DX312 with C9.
> ...


This is very interesting, thanks. Must check out the RS6 given its role here. 

Did you try the E02 with the WA8 yet? This is the pairing I had in mind when I ordered the WA8 (BTW: I mentioned to you before that E02 has similar timbre to Hugo 2 - would you agree?)

I basically share your outlook - mid-fi DAP with C9/WA8 is the way to go. As to N8ii, let's see how price is. If it's crazy money (3.5k upwards, then no for me).


----------



## dadracer2

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I bought an N6ii Ti and an E02 module.    Since I am travelling, I didn’t get a chance to extensively A/B test it, but my initial impressions are as follows:
> 
> 1.  I slightly preferred N6ii Ti R01 over RS6.
> 2.  N6ii with E02 is comparable to DX312 with C9.
> ...


I apologise if you have mentioned this before but what are your sound criteria for preferring one device over another? Is is tonal balance, soundstage, dynamics or something else?  I realise it will be individual preference for some things but it would be good to know how you rate these characteristics and what matters most to you.


----------



## jmills8

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I bought an N6ii Ti and an E02 module.    Since I am travelling, I didn’t get a chance to extensively A/B test it, but my initial impressions are as follows:
> 
> 1.  I slightly preferred N6ii Ti R01 over RS6.
> 2.  N6ii with E02 is comparable to DX312 with C9.
> ...


In time everything that is "the best sounding" is knocked down. Later on they become great again.


----------



## jlemaster1957

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I bought an N6ii Ti and an E02 module.    Since I am travelling, I didn’t get a chance to extensively A/B test it, but my initial impressions are as follows:
> 
> 1.  I slightly preferred N6ii Ti R01 over RS6.
> 2.  N6ii with E02 is comparable to DX312 with C9.
> ...


Agree here about the excellence of Hiby DAPs. I only have the R8, which @twister6 also reviewed +\- C9. The added benefit I have discovered for the extra cost of this TOTL DAP is that the amp in it is truly excellent, and it is easily portable — so I take it with me wherever I go. The C9 feels like more of a transportable due to just that little bit extra weight and size, so I am mostly using it as a desktop amp  so far. Something Alex didn’t do in his review was try the R8-high gain-turbo +C9 in Pre mode. This opens up a whole additional suite of possibilities, given that all 4 C9 modes can be invoked. This approach allows C9 to add the the amplification segment of the R8 which I believe is missing when connected in line mode.


----------



## jlemaster1957 (Feb 13, 2022)

jlemaster1957 said:


> Agree here about the excellence of Hiby DAPs. I only have the R8, which @twister6 also reviewed +\- C9. The added benefit I have discovered for the extra cost of this TOTL DAP is that the amp in it is truly excellent, and it is easily portable — so I take it with me wherever I go. The C9 feels like more of a transportable due to just that little bit extra weight and size, so I am mostly using it as a desktop amp  so far. Something Alex didn’t do in his review was try the R8-high gain-turbo +C9 in Pre mode. This opens up a whole additional suite of possibilities, given that all 4 C9 modes can be invoked. This approach allows C9 to add the the amplification segment of the R8 which I believe is missing when connected in line mode.


One extra impression- listened to the Final A4000 tonight, really have always found these very mediocre but with R8 in Turbo —> pre-amp into C9 (tubes + AB) the bass is fast but impactful, the normally very forward vocals step back in the stage depth (out of my head), instrument separation and detail retrieval improves- as I’ve noted before, I’m finding that C9 elevates lower-mid tier IEMS a lot. It’s like they are finally being driven properly. I’ve found the same with the Ikko OH-10s and UM 3DTs. It’s wonderful finally hearing these sets performing to their fullest potential.


----------



## Nostoi

For anyone interested, a discussion of C9 vs WA8 can be found here and here.


----------



## Slim1970

Nostoi said:


> For anyone interested, a discussion of C9 vs WA8 can be found here and here.


Nice review! I'm thinking about the WA8, even thought the C9 has tube modes. I like the solid state timbre more after A/B'ing them. 

On a side note, what version of the Plussound X8 cable do you have on your HD800S's?


----------



## Nostoi

Slim1970 said:


> Nice review! I'm thinking about the WA8, even thought the C9 has tube modes. I like the solid state timbre more after A/B'ing them.
> 
> On a side note, what version of the Plussound X8 cable do you have on your HD800S's?


That's silver-plated copper X8. I have it also on my Rognir and find it's very natural sounding - doesn't change the tone of the headphone to any notable degree, but offers more clarity/resolve. 

Definitely recommend the WA8 as a nice pairing to the C9. I also lean tend to toward SS & class A/B on the C9 - it so amazingly resolving. The tube mode on the WA8 is very different indeed from the C9 tubes.


----------



## cgriess

cgriess said:


> I have written to Forza, let's see what comes out...
> 
> Thanks already for your tips.....


So I have now ordered from Matt the IC without GRD and a USB cable. Took a little while because Matt seems to be very busy. Let's see when it arrives......


----------



## Slim1970

Nostoi said:


> That's silver-plated copper X8. I have it also on my Rognir and find it's very natural sounding - doesn't change the tone of the headphone to any notable degree, but offers more clarity/resolve.
> 
> Definitely recommend the WA8 as a nice pairing to the C9. I also lean tend to toward SS & class A/B on the C9 - it so amazingly resolving. The tube mode on the WA8 is very different indeed from the C9 tubes.


Thanks, why not go with an all copper for the HD800S’s?


----------



## Nostoi

Slim1970 said:


> Thanks, why not go with an all copper for the HD800S’s?


To be honest, mostly aesthetic reasons: I already have a SPC X8 for my Rognir, as well as SPC X8 4.4mm IC and a 6.35mm/4.4mm adaptor. Having a pure copper X8 in that would irk my OCD (I also have the equivalent interconnects as a Forza Noir Hybrid set-up...). 




But also - I tend to lean toward a more neutral tuning in any case. The only time I really valued a pure copper cable was on the Meze Liric. Because the HD800s is now paired with the WA8, I find any upper energy that would have come with a SPC cable has been mitigated.


----------



## Slim1970

Nostoi said:


> To be honest, mostly aesthetic reasons: I already have a SPC X8 for my Rognir, as well as SPC X8 4.4mm IC and a 6.35mm/4.4mm adaptor. Having a pure copper X8 in that would irk my OCD (I also have the equivalent interconnects as a Forza Noir Hybrid set-up...).
> 
> 
> 
> But also - I tend to lean toward a more neutral tuning in any case. The only time I really valued a pure copper cable was on the Meze Liric. Because the HD800s is now paired with the WA8, I find any upper energy that would have come with a SPC cable has been mitigated.


Beautiful cable!


----------



## Nostoi

Slim1970 said:


> Beautiful cable!


Thanks, buddy. Plussound do a really good job - and absolutely excellent service, too. 

The only thing I need/want now is a decent silver 3.5mm interconnect for the WA8. Thinking maybe Silver Dragon or Lavricables Ultimate Silver - since you have both, any leanings?


----------



## jlemaster1957

Nostoi said:


> That's silver-plated copper X8. I have it also on my Rognir and find it's very natural sounding - doesn't change the tone of the headphone to any notable degree, but offers more clarity/resolve.
> 
> Definitely recommend the WA8 as a nice pairing to the C9. I also lean tend to toward SS & class A/B on the C9 - it so amazingly resolving. The tube mode on the WA8 is very different indeed from the C9 tubes.


Hi how are you pairing C9 and WA8? Are you connecting WA8 to C9 as input or from C9 as output to WA8 in the chain? Any noise/hiss doing so with more sensitive IEMS? Thanks


----------



## Nostoi

jlemaster1957 said:


> Hi how are you pairing C9 and WA8? Are you connecting WA8 to C9 as input or from C9 as output to WA8 in the chain? Any noise/hiss doing so with more sensitive IEMS? Thanks


Ah, I can see what I've written is misleading - when I say "pairing" I mean they pair together as a complementary duo. But I'm not actually connecting them or pairing them up! Although I guess that's possible.


----------



## Slim1970

Nostoi said:


> Thanks, buddy. Plussound do a really good job - and absolutely excellent service, too.
> 
> The only thing I need/want now is a decent silver 3.5mm interconnect for the WA8. Thinking maybe Silver Dragon or Lavricables Ultimate Silver - since you have both, any leanings?


The Lavricables is a warmer sounding silver cable in comparison to silver dragon. I like the silver dragon cable more with warmer sounding, loose bass headphones like the Spirit Torino Radiante’s, Quad Era 1’s. It really transforms those headphone. The Lavricables can be paired with neutral or warmer headphones since it does have a hint of warmth to their sound without the loss of any details. I had the Lavricables grand on my HEKse’s, Z1R’s and they were great with both. Build quality easily goes to the Lavricables.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Swapped the iFi interconnect with a Norne Fusion interconnect. Can actually use my DX300 case now! Pictures for anyone wanting to compare the sizes. I'll be listing my iFi for sale...


----------



## wizard1126

Tristy said:


> I was gonna get the topping rack but the price seemed a little steep for a couple of pieces of acrylic. I decided to get an acrylic stand and drill some holes for the relevant interconnects / cables. Works a treat and £25 saved.


How do you compare Hugo 2 as stand alone DAC/AMP vs C9 + DAP?


----------



## jlemaster1957 (Mar 10, 2022)

Andykong said:


> Yes, the system illustrated above is safe AS LONG AS C9 is not being charged, only connected to the upstream DAC (R8) by analogue/audio connections.  In fact, if you have the system on hand, you can try to charge C9 to validate our speculation. With you setup, the safe mode will response promptly and won't cause any damage.  If you proved us wrong, you have more flexibility in using the system.


Hello Fellow C9 users,
This message is for @Andykong, but is of importance for all C9 and POTENTIAL OR ACTUAL Cayin RU-6 R2R DAC users, and relates to post #5201 in this thread, and also post #5198 just prior to that. At that time, @Andykong stated that C9 may be connected safely via analogue interconnnect IN to C9 from Hiby R8,  while Hiby R8 itself is connected by USB to a Sonore microRendu that is powered by an LPS 1.2 clean power source, and receiving an audio source signal from an RJ45 network cable (in this case, transmitting a signal from Roon). I have confirmed that this is indeed safe and does not trigger the C9 protective mode (and the sound is divine BTW). There is a very nice graphic that @Andykong created in #5198 so I won't replicate that here.

Now then, this post refers to the review of @twister6 on the Cayin RU-6 here, in which the reviewer describes connecting RU-6 via interconnect analogue cable into the C9, i..e.

Source [macbook OR iPhone OR...] -->USB into RU-6 --> 4.4. or 3.5 interconnect out--> into C9 --> IEMS out of C9

@twister6 does not state that the protective mode of C9 is triggered; however, RU-6 is not battery operated, it must therefor receive its power to operate from the source battery, be it macbook or iPhone etc. Here are my questions:

a) if the SOURCE is a Macbook, and that Macbook is being charged at the time of playback  (by a USB charging cable supplied by a Macbook charger)  in the above configuration with RU-6 in the chain, but the C9 is NOT ITSELF being charged, will the C9 protective mode be triggered?
b) If the SOURCE is an iPhone, and that iPhone is being charged (by a wireless induction charger, i.e. non-wired) at the time of playback  in the above configuration with RU-6 in the chain, but the C9 is NOT ITSELF being charged, will the C9 protective mode be triggered?
c) If the SOURCE is another type of POWERED DAC such as the iFi Zen Dac V2, that is powered by a DC source or another USB cable, and is feeding a SOURCE audio signal via USB to the RU6 with playback in the above configuration with RU-6 in the chain, but the C9 is NOT ITSELF being charged, will the C9 protective mode be triggered?

This is important to me as I have myself now also purchased (and am enjoying very much thank you) a Cayin RU-6, and want to be sure I do not damage it, or my iPhone, or my Macbook Pro, or any other upstream powered DAC.

My assumption, given the message from @Andykong that I cited above, is that AS LONG AS C9 is not itself being charged at the time of playback, for any of these situations, neither will the C9 protective mode be triggered, nor will the RU-6 be damaged.

@Andykong, I thought about posting this also in the RU-6 thread, but it is much more pertinent to C9 users, so only posted it here. I can post a very short message over there to refer other C9 users to read your response here in this thread, if recommended; otherwise please indicate your preference.


----------



## Whitigir

ctaxxxx said:


> Swapped the iFi interconnect with a Norne Fusion interconnect. Can actually use my DX300 case now! Pictures for anyone wanting to compare the sizes. I'll be listing my iFi for sale...


Bottomed out huh ? That is naughty


----------



## jlemaster1957 (Mar 10, 2022)

wizard1126 said:


> How do you compare Hugo 2 as stand alone DAC/AMP vs C9 + DAP?


Pls see the C9 review of @twister6 here. The reviewer does not, unfortunately, directly compare Hugo 2 alone vs Hugo 2 + C9, but compares a large number of other DAPs in this way. @Currawong in his review of C9 here, starting about 12:30 into this excellent YouTube video review DOES directly inspect the performance of the Hugo2 + C9, though not to Hugo2 on its own (not A/B compared anyway).


----------



## ctaxxxx

Whitigir said:


> Bottomed out huh ? That is naughty


Was a pet peeve I guess. I use my DX300 from the stack and on-the-go. iFi cable is perfectly fine otherwise. Especially since the Norne cost me over twice as much...


----------



## wizard1126

Whitigir said:


> I think if I take his statement, then IER Z1R will be Mid-Tier.  Because these little guys literally has transformed themselves into the minds that I have never heard before....I am addicted


----------



## qua2k (Mar 13, 2022)

jlemaster1957 said:


> My assumption, given the message from @Andykong that I cited above, is that AS LONG AS C9 is not itself being charged at the time of playback, for any of these situations, neither will the C9 protective mode be triggered, nor will the RU-6 be damaged.


Having used my C9 with my LPGT player in a variety of manner, I would agree with this.

I must also admit that I have used it with being charged with the LPGT player and being fine but have since stopped having the C9 being charged while in use after reading of potential issues in this thread.

I also use Orbtronic high drain 18650 batteries instead of the stock Sony batteries.


----------



## Whitigir

Nah, as long as you are using 2 different chargers, one for C9 and 1 for the DAP, the protective circuit should not be triggered


----------



## orifiel

The C9 really improves dynamics and soundstage of almost every IEM, specially the hybrid electrostatic ones, it’s an excellent adition to every portable setup


----------



## Nostoi

After a period of homesickness, I'm so happy to reunite Hugo2Go with the C9. Along with the A02/C9 combo, the Hugo2/C9 pairing exemplifies the meaning of synergy _par excellence_. Never will I prise these two apart again....


----------



## dadracer2

Nostoi said:


> After a period of homesickness, I'm so happy to reunite Hugo2Go with the C9. Along with the A02/C9 combo, the Hugo2/C9 pairing exemplifies the meaning of synergy _par excellence_. Never will I prise these two apart again....


That's a nice rack. What is it please?


----------



## Nostoi

dadracer2 said:


> That's a nice rack. What is it please?


It's one that has been mentioned a few times on this thread. I got mine from Amazon Japan, but probably there's a local equivalent. 

https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/aw/d/B07NDRD2PT/ref=ppx_yo_mob_b_inactive_ship_o3_img?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## dadracer2

Nostoi said:


> It's one that has been mentioned a few times on this thread. I got mine from Amazon Japan, but probably there's a local equivalent.
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/aw/d/B07NDRD2PT/ref=ppx_yo_mob_b_inactive_ship_o3_img?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Many thanks


----------



## AnalogandDigital

Anyone running the Cayin C9 with a AK Kann Alpha ... 🤔


----------



## bgillis (Mar 16, 2022)

Hi head-fiers,

Does anyone know if there are any advantages to couple Cayin RU6 with Cayin C9 ?
What are the main disadvantages ? Should double-amping be avoided at any cost ?
Should I use Cayin RU6 or Cayin C9 alone instead ? Why ?

I will mainly use this combo with my

Sennheiser HD660s,
DCA Aeon Noire,
Dunu SA6.
Thanks to you all for your input 

PS: I have posted the same questions in the Cayin RU6 thread; if any one is following one or the other Cayin product thread only.


----------



## dadracer2

bgillis said:


> Hi head-fiers,
> 
> Does anyone know if there are any advantages to couple Cayin RU6 with Cayin C9 ?
> What are the main disadvantages ? Should double-amping be avoided at any cost ?
> ...


Hiya, not sure I understand why you'd want to do that. Unless are you using a mobile as a streaming source?


----------



## gazzington

hiby r8 line out to c9 with final a8000 is blowing my mind this morning with some ambient music


----------



## bgillis (Mar 16, 2022)

dadracer2 said:


> Hiya, not sure I understand why you'd want to do that. Unless are you using a mobile as a streaming source?



Yes indeed my Android smartphone will be the streaming source (Qobuz through UAPP).

What's wrong to use this combo with a laptop ?


----------



## dadracer2

bgillis said:


> Yes indeed my Android smartphone will be the streaming source (Qobuz through UAPP).
> 
> What's wrong to use this combo with a laptop ?


I think the RU6 would be the better choice then. I didn't say anything about a laptop but if you have a Qobuz account then you will be able to stream from the laptop with the RU6. The only thing you might want to add to that chain is some kind of noise/jitter/interference suppression of the Audioquest or ifi Audio sort to give the RU6 it's best chance.  I think the C9 comes into its own when being fed from a mid range or above DAP so it has a purer sound signal so to speak. But these are just my thoughts.


----------



## bgillis

dadracer2 said:


> I think the RU6 would be the better choice then. I didn't say anything about a laptop but if you have a Qobuz account then you will be able to stream from the laptop with the RU6. The only thing you might want to add to that chain is some kind of noise/jitter/interference suppression of the Audioquest or ifi Audio sort to give the RU6 it's best chance. I think the C9 comes into its own when being fed from a mid range or above DAP so it has a purer sound signal so to speak. But these are just my thoughts.


Sorry for the misunderstanding.

At home, I have a Topping stack (A90 and D90SE). So RU6 is mainly used on my

smartphone (Qobuz through UAPP in bit perfect mode)
at the office
on the move

laptop (Qobuz through ASIO driver)
at the office

I'm just wondering what will be the pros & cons of using the RU6 with a C9 added to the chain... or using a C9 only instead. 
I never intend to use a DAP. So a C9 might be useful to have a different sound signature only.
Maybe I don't understand the purpose or usage of a C9 at all


----------



## dadracer2

bgillis said:


> Sorry for the misunderstanding.
> 
> At home, I have a Topping stack (A90 and D90SE). So RU6 is mainly used on my
> 
> ...


No problem, and a lot depends on how you will use your devices. The C9 is an amp only so no dac involved whereas the RU6 has both a dac and an amp. If you want to have real mobility then the C9 might not be for you as it is transportable as opposed to portable I would say. If you were going to use it as a desktop amp then fine, but you already have one and by all accounts a good one. I am not sure there is a benefit to adding a C9 to the RU6 so you are effectively using the RU6 as a dac. Does the Ru6 have a line out or is it purely headphone out? I thought it was only headphone out so then you are double amping which is less ideal. 

Don't get me wrong as I think the C9 is a fabulous thing but I am not certain it fits into what you are using and offers you a benefit over the RU6. Does that help? Please just bear in mind this is just my opinion and is not what someone else might think or suggest.


----------



## bgillis

dadracer2 said:


> Does the Ru6 have a line out or is it purely headphone out? I thought it was only headphone out so then you are double amping which is less ideal.


That's correct. The RU6 is headphone out only. So double amping couldn't be avoided indeed when RU6 is paired up with the C9.



dadracer2 said:


> Don't get me wrong as I think the C9 is a fabulous thing but I am not certain it fits into what you are using and offers you a benefit over the RU6. Does that help?



Definitely!

So I'm just wondering now what is the main usage of the C9. 
To be coupled to a DAP only ?

Maybe I don't need a C9 after all 

PS: twister6 reviewed the paring of the RU6 to the C9 in his RU6 review: External AMP pair up.


----------



## cgriess

bgillis said:


> So I'm just wondering now what is the main usage of the C9.



I use my C9 as an amp on my SP2K to drive DCA Stealth mobile. The SP2K alone does not make it


----------



## dadracer2

bgillis said:


> That's correct. The RU6 is headphone out only. So double amping couldn't be avoided indeed when RU6 is paired up with the C9.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes I know, but I don't think he was really recommending it as an option. Primarily yes, I'd say so, but of course you could use it as your main system headphone amp (it's good enough) if your main system amp didn't have a headphone out. Or for an office based system from a dac/streamer it would work well as many people like to keep digital and analogue devices separate.


----------



## jlemaster1957

gazzington said:


> hiby r8 line out to c9 with final a8000 is blowing my mind this morning with some ambient music


Similar for out to the Legend X. With Turbo and high gain on, in Pre-Amp mode.


----------



## wizard1126

Just placed an order for Cayin C9. Can't wait!


----------



## AnalogandDigital

wizard1126 said:


> Just placed an order for Cayin C9. Can't wait!


Did you ?
Congrats ... 👌
I'm so close but have my AK Kann Alpha arriving
Want to see how I like it since I also have the Lotoo PAW6000 in mind 
And pair one of both


----------



## Slim1970

wizard1126 said:


> Just placed an order for Cayin C9. Can't wait!


I think you’re going to love it. It rivals some desktop systems in many areas. I really enjoy my C9. Best purchase I made in a long time.


----------



## wizard1126

Slim1970 said:


> I think you’re going to love it. It rivals some desktop systems in many areas. I really enjoy my C9. Best purchase I made in a long time.


Looking forward to it! This thread nudge me over the fence haha. Cayin seems to be doing a lot of things right


----------



## jlemaster1957

Slim1970 said:


> I think you’re going to love it. It rivals some desktop systems in many areas. I really enjoy my C9. Best purchase I made in a long time.


Me too - best addition ever to my home sound chain. Do read through the first half of tbis thread though (at least) - lots to learn about batteries, charging, avoiding shorting out connected equipment. All very do-able. Congrats 🎉!


----------



## Slim1970

jlemaster1957 said:


> Me too - best addition ever to my home sound chain. Do read through the first half of tbis thread though (at least) - lots to learn about batteries, charging, avoiding shorting out connected equipment. All very do-able. Congrats 🎉!


Thanks, I did read the thread beforehand and I've purchased the Orbtronic batteries with a extra charging module. So I'm all set and I believe I'm maximizing the sound of my C9.


----------



## DaYooper

OK, I still have my C9 with lots of extras listed. Now I've added theN6ii-TI to the package. An opportunity to get the whole kit-n-kaboodle including AO2, and EO2.
https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/cayin-c9-plus-n6ii-ti-ao2-eo2.10185/


----------



## AnalogandDigital

Done !
Just bought a Cayin C9 ... 👊👊👊


----------



## jlemaster1957 (Mar 20, 2022)

AnalogandDigital said:


> Done !
> Just bought a Cayin C9 ... 👊👊👊


Congratulations- you will not be sorry! Grooving to Jazz on the Autobahn by the Felice Bros right now on my C9 with my EE Legend X’s (source :UAPP on Hiby R8; mode on C9 Tubes + AB)


----------



## AnalogandDigital

jlemaster1957 said:


> Congratulations- you will not be sorry! Grooving to Jazz on the Autobahn by the Felice Bros right now on my C9 with my EE Legend X’s (source :UAPP on Hiby R8; mode on C9 Tubes + AB)


My first Cayin audio 'toy' actually
Don't have any EE but arriving are :
Dunu Zen
64 Audio U6T & U12T
Unique Melody Mest Mk II
And a AK Kann Alpha


----------



## wizard1126

New toy just arrived 
Pairing it with Sony IER-Z1R through 4.4mm balanced mode. The soundstage has been expanded drastically. Minutiae detail has been magnify in a good way. Will update more about my impression after some playing time.


----------



## AnalogandDigital

wizard1126 said:


> New toy just arrived
> Pairing it with Sony IER-Z1R through 4.4mm balanced mode. The soundstage has been expanded drastically. Minutiae detail has been magnify in a good way. Will update more about my impression after some playing time.


Awesome and congrats
And ... enjoy ... 👌


----------



## gops2116 (Mar 25, 2022)

The Cayin C9 fits the bill perfectly for someone like me who is over invested in IEMs, and under invested in quality amplification. I will say it is the best investment I have made in the audio chain.

The RS6 (VE EXT IEM profile) + C9 SS Timbre + Class A amp + VE EXT combo is just sublime 👌🏼


----------



## Xinlisupreme

Tempted me also because I own RS6 and I think C9 should be a great upgrade to my dap, but I’m not sure it’s comfy to use at home on sofa…😅


----------



## gops2116

Xinlisupreme said:


> Tempted me also because I own RS6 and I think C9 should be a great upgrade to my dap, but I’m not sure it’s comfy to use at home on sofa…😅


The C9 gets pretty toasty !


----------



## jlemaster1957

gops2116 said:


> The C9 gets pretty toasty !


I use it at home mostly. I don’t sit with it in my lap but with the case on it’s quite portable inside the house. It does get warm but never hot. I’ve found with the IFI 4.4 mm to 4.4 mm interconnect that is a little longer this is a bit easier to manage. I pair it usually with Hiby R8 (with which the sound is also sublime especially on Legend X) and inevitably I want to change or skip a song and that little extra bit of cable helps immensely.


----------



## AnalogandDigital

gops2116 said:


> The Cayin C9 fits the bill perfectly for someone like me who is over invested in IEMs, and under invested in quality amplification. I will say it is the best investment I have made in the audio chain.
> 
> The RS6 (VE EXT IEM profile) + C9 SS Timbre + Class A amp + VE EXT combo is just sublime 👌🏼


I have a AK Kann Alpha arriving
But actually I was looking at the RS6 yesterday


----------



## wizard1126

AnalogandDigital said:


> I have a AK Kann Alpha arriving
> But actually I was looking at the RS6 yesterday


Pairing it with AK SR25MKII, no complaints so far. Listening to vocal jazz/Diana Krall with tube and class A amp is sublime.


----------



## AnalogandDigital

wizard1126 said:


> Pairing it with AK SR25MKII, no complaints so far. Listening to vocal jazz/Diana Krall with tube and class A amp is sublime.


Hope I like it with the Kann Alpha
If not ... a new search begins


----------



## wizard1126

AnalogandDigital said:


> Hope I like it with the Kann Alpha
> If not ... a new search begins


haha I really want to try N6II + A02/E02 line out to C9..... going down rabbit hole now


----------



## AnalogandDigital

wizard1126 said:


> haha I really want to try N6II + A02/E02 line out to C9..... going down rabbit hole now


That's another great option
RS6 is R2R as well ...


----------



## NJoyzAudio

Wizard1126

Yes the N6ii/A02 was a great combo when I tired it but was too slow to act to get that combo.  When it does come up for sale here on the classifieds they are gone just as quick as they are listed.

Alternately, I'm seeing some comments on the N8ii thread that some who own the C9 and just purchased the N8ii are starting to pair the N8ii with its ROHM DAC via Line Out to the C9.
While they say for the improvement they hear over the NuTube/A/AB installed in the N8ii might not warrant the cost of someone purchasing the n8ii and the C9 together new, there are comments being made it is an improvement and if someone already owns a C9 or is willing to get one, they might want to consider, given the A02 modules are all gone for the N6ii

I love the sound form my Lotoo PAW6000 Variable Line Out with the C9 as it allows me to have the C9 be a "pure" amp only, and its making me hesitant to pull the trigger on an N8ii, as I'm not sure just how much better sound I'll get and the C9 still holds an edge on power output over the N8ii as I can't use P+ Power setting with Class A and Tubes on the N8ii (my favorite setting so far on the C9), as well as when I travel I don't need the C9, but do miss the Tube / Class A of the C9 when traveling that the n8ii can somewhat provide......sigh.....

Gotta love this hobby except what it does to my wallet....


----------



## AnalogandDigital

NJoyzAudio said:


> Wizard1126
> 
> Yes the N6ii/A02 was a great combo when I tired it but was too slow to act to get that combo.  When it does come up for sale here on the classifieds they are gone just as quick as they are listed.
> 
> ...


Having the same thoughts here
Now I did buy a AK Kann Alpha that arrives tomorrow with some luck
But the Cayin N6ii with A02 module is a great combo
That's why I am also looking at the HiBy RS6 since it's R2R as well ...
Lastly options there are if the money is available and if we want to spent it 
Would love to own a N8ii as well but than we are talking about a  $ 5,720.00 combo in my case


----------



## wizard1126

AnalogandDigital said:


> Having the same thoughts here
> Now I did buy a AK Kann Alpha that arrives tomorrow with some luck
> But the Cayin N6ii with A02 module is a great combo
> That's why I am also looking at the HiBy RS6 since it's R2R as well ...
> ...


I think A02 is not a R2R dac. Correct me if I’m wrong. But nevertheless I’ve heard/read good reviews when paired with C9. 

Curious what’s your favorite IEM/headphones to go with C9? 

I’m really liking Z1R with it. The soundstage and bass is really pushed to the next levels


----------



## armstrj2

AnalogandDigital said:


> Having the same thoughts here
> Now I did buy a AK Kann Alpha that arrives tomorrow with some luck
> But the Cayin N6ii with A02 module is a great combo
> That's why I am also looking at the HiBy RS6 since it's R2R as well ...
> ...


A02 uses AK4497 DACs


----------



## AnalogandDigital

armstrj2 said:


> A02 uses AK4497 DACs


I know but that's finally preference
Some swear by AKM while others ESS ...


----------



## armstrj2

AnalogandDigital said:


> I know but that's finally preference
> Some swear by AKM while others ESS ...


There seemed to be some confusion there about whether it is R2R or not. The AK4497 is a delta-sigma DAC and not R2R.


----------



## AnalogandDigital

armstrj2 said:


> There seemed to be some confusion there about whether it is R2R or not. The AK4497 is a delta-sigma DAC and not R2R.


Aaah need to look into this ...


----------



## lil BANE

I’m nearing the point where a new DAP is on the horizon.  Because I have the C9, I think I want to look outside the Cayin ecosystem and was thinking about the LP P6 Pro…but Cayin appears to have knocked it out of the park with the N8ii.  Sigh…


----------



## jlemaster1957 (Mar 25, 2022)

lil BANE said:


> I’m nearing the point where a new DAP is on the horizon.  Because I have the C9, I think I want to look outside the Cayin ecosystem and was thinking about the LP P6 Pro…but Cayin appears to have knocked it out of the park with the N8ii.  Sigh…


Consider HIBY R8 or RS6. R8 is delta-sigma but has Turbo and dual  AKM4497EQ chipS and the latter is an R2R - both have true LO. I have the R8. Turbo which increases power output (more important for headphones that need a bit more power). Pairs very well with C9 in all modes, but more to the point is a true portable with sublime sound on its own and is easy to travel with and enjoy all but the most sensitive iems on its own. Full set of Head-fi R8 reviews here.


----------



## justanut

jlemaster1957 said:


> Consider HIBY R8 or RS6. R8 is delta-sigma but has Turbo and dual  AKM4497EQ chipS and the latter is an R2R - both have true LO. I have the R8. Turbo which increases power output (more important for headphones that need a bit more power). Pairs very well with C9 in all modes, but more to the point is a true portable with sublime sound on its own and is easy to travel with and enjoy all but the most sensitive iems on its own. Full set of Head-fi R8 reviews here.


Hiby and Cayin are like Oppo and OnePlus...


----------



## AnalogandDigital

justanut said:


> Hiby and Cayin are like Oppo and OnePlus...


Really or just a comparison you 'made' here


----------



## justanut

AnalogandDigital said:


> Really or just a comparison you 'made' here


My bad. Oppo and OnePlus have the same parent company now. Hiby and Cayin have a lot of collaboration (Hiby Music primarily?) but they are still 2 separate entities. Still, if Bane wanted something distinctly not Cayin, he could probably look farther out.


----------



## lil BANE

justanut said:


> My bad. Oppo and OnePlus have the same parent company now. Hiby and Cayin have a lot of collaboration (Hiby Music primarily?) but they are still 2 separate entities. Still, if Bane wanted something distinctly not Cayin, he could probably look farther out.


I’m primarily focusing on DAPs that have a true LO - that’s a pretty small pool.  But I’m also not in a rush, so suggestions are always appreciated!


----------



## jlemaster1957 (Mar 26, 2022)

justanut said:


> My bad. Oppo and OnePlus have the same parent company now. Hiby and Cayin have a lot of collaboration (Hiby Music primarily?) but they are still 2 separate entities. Still, if Bane wanted something distinctly not Cayin, he could probably look farther out.


I concede the point. I only wrote from my experience with the pairing. There are very active threads on Head-fi re the Hiby products, and they do have true LO. This topic has been raised before also on this thread - entering “true LO” in the search bar on this thread produces 2 pages of hits (easier than reading thru 367 pages of entries). Good luck @lil BANE!


----------



## Andykong (Mar 26, 2022)

AnalogandDigital said:


> Having the same thoughts here
> Now I did buy a AK Kann Alpha that arrives tomorrow with some luck
> But the Cayin N6ii with A02 module is a great combo
> That's why I am also looking at the HiBy RS6 since it's R2R as well ...
> ...


Does the Kann Alpha come with 5-pin XLR output?  If this available, it probably is a better line source to C9 than using the 4.4mm output.

A02 uses dual AK4497 DAC, so it is a delta-sigma DAC design. They are difficult to locate now, only available from second hand market.  If you want a balanced line out from N6ii, the E02 can also serve the purpose. The line out of E02 is still a tag behind A02, but close enough and it is widely available.


----------



## NJoyzAudio

lil BANE said:


> I’m primarily focusing on DAPs that have a true LO - that’s a pretty small pool.  But I’m also not in a rush, so suggestions are always appreciated!


Lil BANE

Just putting this out there for you
Aside from the Cayin Products you've asked about, Lotoo's PAW6000 and PAW Gold Touch both have true LO, including Variable Line Out that will allow you to control the volume from the DAP and if your amp has a "pre input" mode (like the C9) it will bypass the volume control on the amp, allowing it to just be an amp, with cleaner sound.
Others out there do this (and a few mentioned by others above) but wanted to throw out there the Lotoo products that I've had good success with and why I'm having a hard time just pulling the trigger on Cayin's new N8ii, just really enjoy using and the sound out of the Lotoo DAP's
Only downside is if your a streaming user, you'll have to use another source into the DAP via USB-C connections for streaming sources.

Hope this information helps


----------



## Andykong

lil BANE said:


> I’m primarily focusing on DAPs that have a true LO - that’s a pretty small pool.  But I’m also not in a rush, so suggestions are always appreciated!



I don't pretend I know that all, but based on the sharing from other users in this thread.  Other than Cayin, Hiby and Lotoo which have been suggested by others,  EX300+Amp12 and 5-pin XLR form Kann Cube offer un-amplified balanced line out as well.


----------



## ssriram2791

Andykong said:


> Does the Kann Alpha come with 5-pin XLR output?  If this available, it probably is a better line source to C9 than using the 4.4mm output.
> 
> A02 uses *dual AK4499 DAC*, so it is a delta-sigma DAC design. They are difficult to locate now, only available from second hand market.  If you want a balanced line out from N6ii, the E02 can also serve the purpose. The line out of E02 is still a tag behind A02, but close enough and it is widely available.


A02 uses dual AK4497 not AK4499.. small correction


----------



## Andykong

ssriram2791 said:


> A02 uses dual AK4497 not AK4499.. small correction



Thanks, I stand corrected.  I was reading "someone's" N8ii review at 1am when I wrote that reply, not a good idea.


----------



## qua2k

edited.


----------



## qua2k (Mar 26, 2022)

NJoyzAudio said:


> Lil BANE
> 
> Just putting this out there for you
> Aside from the Cayin Products you've asked about, Lotoo's PAW6000 and PAW Gold Touch both have true LO, including Variable Line Out that will allow you to control the volume from the DAP and if your amp has a "pre input" mode (like the C9) it will bypass the volume control on the amp, allowing it to just be an amp, with cleaner sound.
> ...


With your PlusSound X8 cable, the LPGT+C9 combo is as perfect as can be for my use cases. While the N8ii is an amazing piece of equipment, I cannot and will not do Android for a DAP (yep, I am one of those people ). Streaming is not a necessity for me and Lotoo really has both going on for equipment plus OS in my opinion. Similar to you, I keep the Lotoo in LO, low gain, and do everything on the C9 for amplification, works extremely well.


----------



## dadracer2

Andykong said:


> Thanks, I stand corrected.  I was reading "someone's" N8ii review at 1am when I wrote that reply, not a good idea.


Does that "someone" have a member name starting with a T?


----------



## NJoyzAudio

qua2k said:


> With your PlusSound X8 cable, the LPGT+C9 combo is as perfect as can be for my use cases. While the N8ii is an amazing piece of equipment, I cannot and will not do Android for a DAP (yep, I am one of those people ). Streaming is not a necessity for me and Lotoo really has both going on for equipment plus OS in my opinion. Similar to you, I keep the Lotoo in LO, low gain, and do everything on the C9 for amplification, works extremely well.


Qua2k

Glad to hear the cable you got form me is working well for you
Agree, Mobile the Lotoo PAW6K for me is the right size, good battery life, EXCELLENT sound, and lightning fast UI with is Linux based OS.
When stationary, the lotoo DAPs' matched with the C9 with the newer PlusSound X8 IC I had made (PPH/Tri-silver combo) and using the Variable Line Out/Pre In combo with the C9, it is perfect!.
I think its a little bit of upgradeidis on my part, and I too am not a streamer, or when I do need to stream, I use my Lotoo PAW S2 into the PC for those occasions, and occasionally hook the PAW S2 form the PC into the C9 and again, just perfect!

And I too prefer to use DAP's that don't use Android, but just seeing so many great comments about the N8ii.  Oh well Guess I'll just enjoy what I have....
Maybe your helping me save some $'s here and stay the course, or maybe wait to see what Lotoo does for 2023?  
Oh well like I said above, enjoy this hobby, just hate what it does to my wallet.


----------



## DaYooper

Hey, thanks for reminding me about my LPGT-Ti. It's loaded with 679 DSD512 tracks and line out to C9 is just super sweet.


----------



## McCol

Bought a used C9 which arrived today, paired it this evening with AK SP2000T and Senn 660s

Stunning


----------



## Slim1970

McCol said:


> Bought a used C9 which arrived today, paired it this evening with AK SP2000T and Senn 660s
> 
> Stunning


Nice, how does the C9 sound to you?


----------



## AnalogandDigital

McCol said:


> Bought a used C9 which arrived today, paired it this evening with AK SP2000T and Senn 660s
> 
> Stunning


Double tubes ... 👌
Hope my C9 arrives later today but FedEx isn't what it used to be 
Already delayed


----------



## McCol

Slim1970 said:


> Nice, how does the C9 sound to you?



Only used for an hour or so, used ab mode with tube mode enabled.  
It's hard to describe the sound so soon into using but I'd say it adds a layer of depth, detail and smoothness that I've not heard using my 660s before.


----------



## Slim1970

McCol said:


> Only used for an hour or so, used ab mode with tube mode enabled.
> It's hard to describe the sound so soon into using but I'd say it adds a layer of depth, detail and smoothness that I've not heard using my 660s before.


Yes, the C9 has an incredible musical tone while still being able to sound very detailed and clear. It reminds me of the Luxman P-750u I used to own in this regard.


----------



## Xinlisupreme

C9 is coming even here 🥳


----------



## gops2116

McCol said:


> Bought a used C9 which arrived today, paired it this evening with AK SP2000T and Senn 660s
> 
> Stunning


Congrats! This is a great pair.


----------



## F700 (Mar 29, 2022)

Xinlisupreme said:


> C9 is coming even here 🥳


Welcome to the club ✌️👏

Enjoying my LP6K/C9/IER-Z1R while writing these lines. You will love this amp.


----------



## Xinlisupreme

Thank you J, should arrive tomorrow or Thursday… DHL says on 31/3


----------



## F700

Xinlisupreme said:


> Thank you J, should arrive tomorrow or Thursday… DHL says on 31/3


Believe me, you are going next level.


----------



## xenithon

Hey all. New C9 user here. Wanted to ask a couple questions in regard to safety when using the C9:

- should headphones be plugged in before switching the C9, or after, or doesn’t it matter?
- any precautions when switching between class A and AB (eg. disconnect headphones, switch, reconnect)?
- similarly, any precautions needed when switching gain and timbre?

Many thanks in advance! Just want to ensure optimum safety for both the amp and the transducers.


----------



## Xinlisupreme

F700 said:


> Believe me, you are going next level.


I understood what you said🥹
Totally another level


----------



## AnalogandDigital

Xinlisupreme said:


> I understood what you said🥹
> Totally another level


Bought a RS6 as well
Cayin C9 arrived
Soon we'll hear the same ... 👌


----------



## Xinlisupreme

Congrats @AnalogandDigital !
C9 is a Swiss knife, I’m enjoying a lot of jazz in class A, solid state amp stage and high gain


----------



## AnalogandDigital (Mar 30, 2022)

Xinlisupreme said:


> Congrats @AnalogandDigital !
> C9 is a Swiss knife, I’m enjoying a lot of jazz in class A, solid state amp stage and high gain


My new Cayin after many years
First was a N3


----------



## soundblast75

UK folks, just listed a mint new C9
https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/uk-cayin-c9-plus-case-new.23141/


----------



## lil BANE

xenithon said:


> Hey all. New C9 user here. Wanted to ask a couple questions in regard to safety when using the C9:
> 
> - should headphones be plugged in before switching the C9, or after, or doesn’t it matter?
> - any precautions when switching between class A and AB (eg. disconnect headphones, switch, reconnect)?
> ...


1. I believe it was recommended a while back in the thread to have all cables plugged in - especially with the 4.4 plug.  Something about the polarities touching when removing a cable.
2. I switch between amps on the fly all the time!  No issues ever…
3. When switching from Line to Pre, be very careful!  Most likely you’ll have set you DAP to line out (max volume) - Pre does the same thing with the amp which means max volume from both devices!  You can expect damage to the IEM’s and your eardrums!  When using Pre, you control the volume through the source.


----------



## jlemaster1957

xenithon said:


> Hey all. New C9 user here. Wanted to ask a couple questions in regard to safety when using the C9:
> 
> - should headphones be plugged in before switching the C9, or after, or doesn’t it matter?
> - any precautions when switching between class A and AB (eg. disconnect headphones, switch, reconnect)?
> ...


Suggest to search this thread for all entries by @Andykong - should tell you all you need to know on safety with C9


----------



## Andykong

xenithon said:


> Hey all. New C9 user here. Wanted to ask a couple questions in regard to safety when using the C9:
> 
> - should headphones be plugged in before switching the C9, or after, or doesn’t it matter?
> - any precautions when switching between class A and AB (eg. disconnect headphones, switch, reconnect)?
> ...





lil BANE said:


> 1. I believe it was recommended a while back in the thread to have all cables plugged in - especially with the 4.4 plug.  Something about the polarities touching when removing a cable.
> 2. I switch between amps on the fly all the time!  No issues ever…
> 3. When switching from Line to Pre, be very careful!  Most likely you’ll have set you DAP to line out (max volume) - Pre does the same thing with the amp which means max volume from both devices!  You can expect damage to the IEM’s and your eardrums!  When using Pre, you control the volume through the source.



Thanks @lil BANE 

Yes, I do advice we connected all the cables first and make sure all connection are secured before we power on the amplfieir.  It is particaularly important to make sure the 4.4mm connector is fully pushed in, otherwise it can cause short circuit between R- and GND of 4.4mm connector.  The short circuit won't happen instantly when you power on, it'll take a minute or two, depends on the voltage level between the short circit.  Normally unplug is not a problem because the short circuit will only last less than a second when you unplug the connector, but if you plug the conenctor into the amplifier, without realise that you didn't push it completely and left the short circuit to contiue during you playback, and wandering why it didn't sound right today, the short cricuit will damage the amplifier before you find out the problem.   You can check out our previous discussion on this subject *HERE*, *HERE *and *HERE*.

On the othe hand, you are safe to switch between Amplificaton mode (Class A and Class AB), Timbre (Tube and Solid State) and Gain level, there is no need to turn down the volume or power off the amplifier.  The gain control will increase 6dB from L to H, not really a big deal at loudness level, there are ample time to turn down the volume when you feel the H gain is too loud.

Using the Pre-amp input mode will require more caution.  Check *THIS* out if you haven't read the Pre-amp explanation before.


----------



## Andykong

jlemaster1957 said:


> Suggest to search this thread for all entries by @Andykong - should tell you all you need to know on safety with C9



This a very supportive recongition of my work, thank you and sincerely appreciated.  

I have compliled a *FAQ and Resources *for C9, please check scroll to the bottom of the openiong post at Page 1, and you find several links, that should provide a good starting point AFTER you read the content of opening post.


----------



## jlemaster1957

Andykong said:


> This a very supportive recongition of my work, thank you and sincerely appreciated.
> 
> I have compliled a *FAQ and Resources *for C9, please check scroll to the bottom of the openiong post at Page 1, and you find several links, that should provide a good starting point AFTER you read the content of opening post.


Thank YOU sir for your kind and consistent commitment to us users. C9 is the gem of the portable amplifier world. The detail on pushing in the 4.4 mm inter-connect snugly had escaped me in prior reading of the thread so this was VERY GOOD to learn.


----------



## gLer

Hey guys, I'm entertaining the idea of joining the C9 Club. Has anyone here paired one with the original Sony WM1Z, and if so, what's your experience of the combo? I'm a bit concerned the WM1Z doesn't have a true LO, but I'm told using the C9 in preamp mode fixes that issue. Would welcome any insight or advice.


----------



## Whitigir

gLer said:


> Hey guys, I'm entertaining the idea of joining the C9 Club. Has anyone here paired one with the original Sony WM1Z, and if so, what's your experience of the combo? I'm a bit concerned the WM1Z doesn't have a true LO, but I'm told using the C9 in preamp mode fixes that issue. Would welcome any insight or advice.


I recommend True LO source for the C9, unless you “have to have” Sony and S-Master, in which case, you have no option as far as portability go


----------



## Nostoi

gLer said:


> Hey guys, I'm entertaining the idea of joining the C9 Club. Has anyone here paired one with the original Sony WM1Z, and if so, what's your experience of the combo? I'm a bit concerned the WM1Z doesn't have a true LO, but I'm told using the C9 in preamp mode fixes that issue. Would welcome any insight or advice.


Tried it with WM1A and didn't really like the results, but then I was never entirely enamoured with the WM1A itself. An actual LO DAP would be likely make better use of the C9 IMO (although having said that, Hugo 2 and C9 pair together marvellously...so maybe it's more a question of synergy).


----------



## Ichos

gLer said:


> Hey guys, I'm entertaining the idea of joining the C9 Club. Has anyone here paired one with the original Sony WM1Z, and if so, what's your experience of the combo? I'm a bit concerned the WM1Z doesn't have a true LO, but I'm told using the C9 in preamp mode fixes that issue. Would welcome any insight or advice.


The C9 has excellent pre-amp input, I am using it with FiiO players that don't have a dedicated line out.
So don't worry at all.


----------



## gLer

Thanks for the feedback guys. Yes, WM1Z is non-negotiable. I'll be testing the C9 in the not-too-distant future, so just wanted to gather some shared experience meanwhile. Will report back here once I do.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

In fact, my results using pre-amp mode in C9 are better than using the LO from AKSp1k (yes, it may not be true).


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 7, 2022)

srinivasvignesh said:


> In fact, my results using pre-amp mode in C9 are better than using the LO from AKSp1k (yes, it may not be true).


That is logic, because SP1K doesn’t have true Line Out , and at the least, your ears are not fooling you.  You should start trusting it more.  If one day I can’t trust my ears anymore, I will call it quit, and save myself a fortune. Lol


----------



## Tybot

gLer said:


> Hey guys, I'm entertaining the idea of joining the C9 Club. Has anyone here paired one with the original Sony WM1Z, and if so, what's your experience of the combo? I'm a bit concerned the WM1Z doesn't have a true LO, but I'm told using the C9 in preamp mode fixes that issue. Would welcome any insight or advice.



Absolutely love the combo. WM1Z + C9 is my portable desktop end game.


----------



## gLer

Tybot said:


> Absolutely love the combo. WM1Z + C9 is my portable desktop end game.


Thanks, do you use the C9 in preamp mode as advised for the Sony players without dedicated LO? Also, what would you say is improved, sound wise, with the C9 (vs direct from the 1Z with custom FW)?


----------



## karloil (Apr 9, 2022)

Hi everyone, I have the C9 on order and I have read the "FAQ and Resources" of @Andykong. Of course I want to learn from past mistakes and here's what I learned so far:

1. Don't charge the C9 and DAP at the same time
2. IF I want to charge both C9 and DAP at the SAME time - use 2 different chargers (1 for C9, 1 for DAP) BUT NEVER on the same charger
3. Connect all cable, interconnect 1st before turning C9 ON
4. Make sure interconnects are pushed all the way in before turning C9 ON
5. Turn OFF C9 1st before unplugging any interconnect, cable

Did I miss anything?


----------



## jlemaster1957 (Apr 9, 2022)

gLer said:


> Thanks for the feedback guys. Yes, WM1Z is non-negotiable. I'll be testing the C9 in the not-too-distant future, so just wanted to gather some shared experience meanwhile. Will report back here once I do.


Prior reviews have compared the WM1Z to Hiby R8 that does have a true LO and found the characteristics and performance of the two (R8 and 1Z) to be quite comparable. R8 and C9 pairing is excellent, and has the advantage that when connected by LO, one can keep R8 in low gain and non-Turbo mode and still get the full SQ benefits of C9 in its various tube/SS modes, (since C9 controls the volume and gain too); as well as prolonging R8 battery discharge (longer playback time without recharging)


----------



## gLer

jlemaster1957 said:


> Prior reviews have compared the WM1Z to Hiby R8 that does have a true LO and found the characteristics and performance of the two (R8 and 1Z) to be quite comparable. R8 and C9 pairing is excellent, and has the advantage that when connected by LO, one can keep R8 in low gain and non-Turbo mode and still get the full SQ benefits of C9 in its various tube/SS models, (since C9 controls the volume and gain too); as well as prolonging R8 battery discharge (longer playback time without recharging)


What I'd be looking for in the WM1Z/C9 combo is refinement, stage expansion, and an overall improvement of control over individual elements. I'd also like to see how the combination of Class A/tube amplification synergises with the Sony House sound. I'm actually _not_ after extra power output, even though that's one of the C9's selling points. The WM1Z has more than enough power for the IEMs/headphones I use with it.


----------



## jlemaster1957 (Apr 9, 2022)

karloil said:


> Hi everyone, I have the C9 on order and I have read the "FAQ and Resources" of @Andykong. Of course I want to learn from past mistakes and here's what I learned so far:
> 
> 1. Don't charge the C9 and DAP at the same time
> 2. IF I want to charge both C9 and DAP at the SAME time - use 2 different chargers (1 for C9, 1 for DAP) BUT NEVER on the same charger
> ...


One additional item- C9 is really meant to be connected to a battery powered DAP. If connected to a powered DAC or computer or a laptop that is charging (via 3.5 mm aux, for example), you may also create a short circuit- especially if C9 is also charging at the same time. If the upstream DAC is battery powered you should be safe, eg I have connected it to an IFi micro iDSD signature that is battery powered (via RCA out from the Signature) without problem - even though the upstream signal source was USB from a DC-powered streamer (Sonore MicroRendu). I have still avoided charging C9 while doing so- just to be safe.


----------



## Tybot

gLer said:


> Thanks, do you use the C9 in preamp mode as advised for the Sony players without dedicated LO? Also, what would you say is improved, sound wise, with the C9 (vs direct from the 1Z with custom FW)


Yep.  Preamp mode.  I run it in pre on A/B with high gain.  With the C9 the obvious addition is oomph/head room.  It adds warmth while keep the highs crystal clear.  The sound envelops you.  I think the IEMs I'm using (EVO, Traillii) are helped greatly by the power. 

If it helps, I also have DX300Max.  I like it better than WM1Z on it's own but like the WM1Z+C9 better than DX300Max and even DX300Max+C9.  So yeah...I don't think the WM1Z lack of line out negatively affects it one iota.


----------



## karloil (Apr 14, 2022)

jlemaster1957 said:


> One additional item- C9 is really meant to be connected to a battery powered DAP. If connected to a powered DAC or computer or a laptop that is charging (via 3.5 mm aux, for example), you may also create a short circuit- especially if C9 is also charging at the same time. If the upstream DAC is battery powered you should be safe, eg I have connected it to an IFi micro iDSD signature that is battery powered (via RCA out from the Signature) without problem - even though the upstream signal source was USB from a DC-powered streamer (Sonore MicroRendu). I have still avoided charging C9 while doing so- just to be safe.



Oh yeah, also saw this somewhere in this thread, Thank you for the reminder! I also plan to use it occasionally with the Gryphon. Will add this to my reminder 

1. Don't charge C9 and DAP at the same time - when in use
2. IF I want to charge both C9 and DAP at the SAME time (when in use) - use 2 different chargers (1 for C9, 1 for DAP) BUT NEVER on the same charger
3. Connect all cable, interconnect 1st before turning C9 ON
4. Make sure interconnects are pushed all the way in before turning C9 ON
5. Turn OFF C9 1st before unplugging any interconnect, cable
6. Don't charge C9 when it's connected to any A/C powered DAC - battery power DACs are acceptable.


----------



## karloil

@Andykong 

I have a technical question regarding the recommended 18650 to be used on the C9. 

Is there a recommened Discharge rate that you/your engineers recommend for the 18650 battery? 

I understand that you use Sony VTC6 (by default) which has a maximum discharge rate of 15A-30A. Users here recommended Orbtronic which has a max discharge rate of 10A (Unfortunately, Orbtronic doesn't ship to my country.)

Now I'm looking at other 18650 with higher capacity (mAh) - I just like confirmation of your recommended Amperage discharge rate.


----------



## jlemaster1957 (Apr 10, 2022)

karloil said:


> @Andykong
> 
> I have a technical question regarding the recommended 18650 to be used on the C9.
> 
> ...


I’m not sure that there is any way to control discharge rate on tbe C9 while using it other than the mode you use. SS discharges (uses less power) slower than tubes and class AB slower than Class A. So if you are playing back, you will discharge the battery faster with Tubes +Class A than SS+ class AB. Of course the slowest is not to use it at all, that will be much slower. The important thing is not to overcharge (charge till  the 4th light is no longer blinking) nor to over discharge (let it discharge till C9 shuts down). This will all shorten battery life.  Also, don’t leave in a fully discharged state for a long time- eventually it will lose the capacity to recharge. Better to re charge (till 4th light is blinking) as soon as it is discharged. If you don’t use then for a few days it will discharge some but not much.

I have both the Orbotronics and the VTC6s. Contrary to expectation, I find the Orbotronics discharge faster, but that may be because of the 10 A limitation. The C9 is probably pulling the max current that they can deliver, while the VTC6 has a bit of headroom in terms of max amperage.


----------



## karloil

jlemaster1957 said:


> I’m not sure that there is any way to control discharge rate on tbe C9 while using it other than the mode you use. SS discharges (uses less power) slower than tubes and class AB slower than Class A. So if you are playing back, you will discharge the battery faster with Tubes +Class A than SS+ class AB. Of course the slowest is not to use it at all, that will be much slower. The important thing is not to overcharge (charge till  the 4th light is no longer blinking) nor to over discharge (let it discharge till C9 shuts down). This will all shorten battery life.  Also, don’t leave in a fully discharged state for a long time- eventually it will lose the capacity to recharge. Better to re charge (till 4th light is blinking) as soon as it is discharged. If you don’t use then for a few days it will discharge some but not much.
> 
> I have both the Orbotronics and the VTC6s. Contrary to expectation, I find the Orbotronics discharge faster, but that may be because of the 10 A limitation. The C9 is probably pulling the max current that they can deliver, while the VTC6 has a bit of headroom in terms of max amperage.



Yes, I understand this but I just want to know if the Engineers at Cayin has a recommended discharge rate for 18650 batteries. 

Doing a quick research, only VTC6 can discharge at 15A-30A. The next one I know is the 30Q which discharges at 15A - although both are at 3000mAh capacity

I'm looking at various 3500mAh capacities and their discharge rates are at 10A. Some 5A, some 2A.

So not sure @Andykong if this question is even valid. I just want to make sure that I'm not starving the C9 of it's needed Amp usage. (My apologies as my ECE101/electronics knowledge is quite rusty)


----------



## Andykong

F700 said:


> Welcome to the club ✌️👏
> 
> Enjoying my LP6K/C9/IER-Z1R while writing these lines. You will love this amp.



I am thinking of buying a set of IER-Z1R next week as personal reference. I have heard it with N8 and N6ii (A01), but I haven't heard it with later Audio Motherboards, N8ii or C9.  I assumed you have tried a lot of pairings with Z1R, do you think Z1R and C9 is a recommended pair? one of the best you tried?


----------



## Andykong

gLer said:


> What I'd be looking for in the WM1Z/C9 combo is refinement, stage expansion, and an overall improvement of control over individual elements. I'd also like to see how the combination of Class A/tube amplification synergises with the Sony House sound. I'm actually _not_ after extra power output, even though that's one of the C9's selling points. The WM1Z has more than enough power for the IEMs/headphones I use with it.



There are several happy WM1Z/C9 users in this thread, and Cayin had included WM1Z as a testing reference for C9 projects.  To be frank, I can't think of a better reference, in terms of reputation and popularity, when we want to develop a feature that enables a portable amplifier to pair with a DAP that doesn't have a line out.

As a general guideline, if you connect a DAP to C9 in line input mode, the overall sound signature will be slightly inclined to C9.  If you connect the same DAP to C9 in pre-amp input mode, the overall sound signature will be slightly inclined to the DAP.  Our initial thinking was to provide a setup that retain the original sound signature of the source with better handling and driving capability, making it possible for them to try out the headphone or IEMs that is not within the reach with DAP alone.  If this is not what you need, then our assumption is applicable.


----------



## Andykong

karloil said:


> @Andykong
> 
> I have a technical question regarding the recommended 18650 to be used on the C9.
> 
> ...





karloil said:


> Yes, I understand this but I just want to know if the Engineers at Cayin has a recommended discharge rate for 18650 batteries.
> 
> Doing a quick research, only VTC6 can discharge at 15A-30A. The next one I know is the 30Q which discharges at 15A - although both are at 3000mAh capacity
> 
> ...



We don't have specific guidelines or requirements for 18650 batteries.  Theoretically, they all work fine, and most of them sound alright with C9.  The 10A discharge rate will benefit the headroom and transient of the amplifier but batteries with 5A discharge rate are valid options.  Be reminded that the discharge rate is NOT the only factor that matters.  We didn't pretend we know a lot about battery manufacturing, so we can't explain whether the changes in tonal characteristics are related to the material or the special formula of the battery.

I have tested the Panasonic NCR18650GA and they sound very good with C9, if the Orbtronic are out of stock, maybe you can consider the Panasonic.  

I 
affects the overall sound signature


----------



## F700

Andykong said:


> I am thinking of buying a set of IER-Z1R next week as personal reference. I have heard it with N8 and N6ii (A01), but I haven't heard it with later Audio Motherboards, N8ii or C9.  I assumed you have tried a lot of pairings with Z1R, do you think Z1R and C9 is a recommended pair? one of the best you tried?


Hi Andy 

I have not listened to the Z1R with any of these DAPs. I tried Calyx M (standalone) and the AK SR25mk2 and Lotoo P6K with the C9. I especially like the latter combo with the Z1R. They respond very well with the different settings of the C9. 

I have absolutely no problem recommending the Z1R with the C9. Fabulous pairing.


----------



## karloil (Apr 14, 2022)

Andykong said:


> We don't have specific guidelines or requirements for 18650 batteries.  Theoretically, they all work fine, and most of them sound alright with C9.  The 10A discharge rate will benefit the headroom and transient of the amplifier but batteries with 5A discharge rate are valid options.  Be reminded that the discharge rate is NOT the only factor that matters.  We didn't pretend we know a lot about battery manufacturing, so we can't explain whether the changes in tonal characteristics are related to the material or the special formula of the battery.
> 
> I have tested the Panasonic NCR18650GA and they sound very good with C9, if the Orbtronic are out of stock, maybe you can consider the Panasonic.
> 
> ...



Thanks a lot @Andykong for confirming this information 

Actually, I'm more concerned in adding listening time to the C9 (Sonic changes is a bonus for me). So I'm now eyeing on 3500mAh capacities.

Thanks for the feedback on Panasonic NCR18650GA - I was specifically looking at this and LG MJ1.

*EDIT: *Follow-up question @Andykong regarding the NCR18650GA - did you use the protected or unprotected model?


----------



## karloil

A year late (as I was on hiatus) but still a very happy purchase! Finally got mine! 

Step aside (for a moment) Gryphon, the C9 will be taking some of your ear time


----------



## hoofman

Ordered since CanJam SG 2022 and finally got my hands on the C9 today. Now I have 371 pages to catch up with everyone


----------



## karloil

hoofman said:


> Ordered since CanJam SG 2022 and finally got my hands on the C9 today. Now I have 371 pages to catch up with everyone



Saw you earlier!


----------



## hoofman

karloil said:


> Saw you earlier!


Oops was you at Zepp this afternoon too hahaha


----------



## karloil

hoofman said:


> Oops was you at Zepp this afternoon too hahaha



Hahaha yes, picked up my cable that I ordered during CanJam as well. Saw you playing around the C9 when I passed by your table


----------



## hoofman

karloil said:


> Hahaha yes, picked up my cable that I ordered during CanJam as well. Saw you playing around the C9 when I passed by your table


Yay! Let's hangout some time. I go there every now and then whenever I have time.


----------



## karloil

hoofman said:


> Yay! Let's hangout some time. I go there every now and then whenever I have time.



Sure man


----------



## Slim1970 (Apr 14, 2022)

karloil said:


> A year late (as I was on hiatus) but still a very happy purchase! Finally got mine!
> 
> Step aside (for a moment) Gryphon, the C9 will be taking some of your ear time


Best portable amp I have heard. Congrats, on the purchase!


----------



## karloil

Slim1970 said:


> Best, portable amp I have heard. Congrats, on the purchase!



Thanks! 

In all honesty, even if I'm in a country where I can easily audition this - I didn't. This was a blind purchase - the *BEST *blind purchase that I did!


----------



## Slim1970

karloil said:


> Thanks!
> 
> In all honesty, even if I'm in a country where I can easily audition this - I didn't. This was a blind purchase - the *BEST *blind purchase that I did!


I’ll let you know how many items in my collection I bought blindly, everything 😂. There are no dealers or distributors in my area for me to demo an item. The only way I can listen to anything is to buy it. Most of the time it works out.


----------



## MrNailhead

I'm curious if anyone in here has used the Fiio M11 Pro with C9 and how they pair together.  I've had my M11 Pro for close to a year now and am starting to feel upgraditis - the M17 looks cool but the C9 seems like a much safer long term investment as it seems to be more future proofed.  I still dearly love and enjoy my M11 Pro and am not looking to replace it with any other DAP in any near term timeline.  
I've never actually used the line-out function on mine - from what i've read it has full line out function on the 3.5mm port but not on the balanced ports - does that even make a difference if it's going into an amp like the C9?  
I've been enjoying this thread and been enjoying learning more about the higher end world of audio over the past year or so.


----------



## jlemaster1957

18650 recharging question here: 
I have noticed when recharging the 18650 batteries – –be they Orbotronics or Sony VTC6 (I have 1 set of both) – that the fourth light starts blinking about 2/3 of the way through the recharging process, so it’s difficult to know when to stop i.e. unplugg. I very often let recharging continue until all four lights are solidly lit. 

Conversely, when playing the C9, I have not noticed when down to the last light, that one light starts blinking before the C9 shuts down. It seems that the blinking must be a relatively short process at the one light stage because I never see it. So I very often keep using the C9 until the batteries are totally discharged and the C9 shuts off.

Does it harm the batteries if I allow them to completely discharge, i.e. allow C9 to turn off and then recharge them until all four lights blink steadily, and immediately unplug there after? I never leave them plugged in overnight or for any length of time after all four lights light up solidly ie stop blinking, and I never leave them in a completely discharged state after the C9 has turned off. I always recharge them immediately.


----------



## gLer

Andykong said:


> There are several happy WM1Z/C9 users in this thread, and Cayin had included WM1Z as a testing reference for C9 projects. To be frank, I can't think of a better reference, in terms of reputation and popularity, when we want to develop a feature that enables a portable amplifier to pair with a DAP that doesn't have a line out.


This makes me very excited to try out the C9, since I expect to use the WM1Z as my primary source for a very, very long time.


----------



## karloil

Slim1970 said:


> I’ll let you know how many items in my collection I bought blindly, everything 😂. There are no dealers or distributors in my area for me to demo an item. The only way I can listen to anything is to buy it. Most of the time it works out.



You're located in Missouri right? US return policy is still in your favor if ever you didn't like the item. 

In Singapore, there's no such return policy. So we really have to be sure of what we are buying 🤷‍♂️


----------



## AnalogandDigital

Slim1970 said:


> I’ll let you know how many items in my collection I bought blindly, everything 😂. There are no dealers or distributors in my area for me to demo an item. The only way I can listen to anything is to buy it. Most of the time it works out.


Same here 
Buy & Try ... 🤷


----------



## Slim1970

karloil said:


> You're located in Missouri right? US return policy is still in your favor if ever you didn't like the item.
> 
> In Singapore, there's no such return policy. So we really have to be sure of what we are buying 🤷‍♂️


Very true, that is one advantage of living in the US


----------



## Slim1970

AnalogandDigital said:


> Same here
> Buy & Try ... 🤷


It’s fun, costly, and very rewarding when it works out!


----------



## qua2k

Slim1970 said:


> It’s fun, costly, and very rewarding when it works out!


Club 100% Blind Purchase here also! Thankfully, I baby my items so resell value is especially good in this hobby comparable to others


----------



## hoofman

karloil said:


> A year late (as I was on hiatus) but still a very happy purchase! Finally got mine!
> 
> Step aside (for a moment) Gryphon, the C9 will be taking some of your ear time


I've just noticed that we posted on the same day. Does that mean we got the C9 on the same day hahaha?
Do you use the C9 mostly for home/office or also on the go?


karloil said:


> In Singapore, there's no such return policy. So we really have to be sure of what we are buying 🤷‍♂️


^^ this, once opened warranty time will kick in. Luckily the resell market is lively in Singapore, and we can demo most stuff to make up for that.


----------



## justanut

hoofman said:


> I've just noticed that we posted on the same day. Does that mean we got the C9 on the same day hahaha?
> Do you use the C9 mostly for home/office or also on the go?
> 
> ^^ this, once opened warranty time will kick in. Luckily the resell market is lively in Singapore, and we can demo most stuff to make up for that.


That's why I'll go Zepp or Jaben to test important purchases first...


----------



## karloil

hoofman said:


> I've just noticed that we posted on the same day. Does that mean we got the C9 on the same day hahaha?
> Do you use the C9 mostly for home/office or also on the go?



Yes, we both got the C9 yesterday  Although I got mine from Jaben. Stocks just arrived Wednesday night.

Will be using it everywhere permitted  For now it's still stuck at home. Now I'm looking for a storage case, got a spare Pelican case and it fits perfectly but still looking for other alternatives.



justanut said:


> That's why I'll go Zepp or Jaben to test important purchases first...



Yep, that's what I do as well...but for the C9, I decided to skip auditioning. But for the rest of my gears, yes, I always audition before purchasing.


----------



## qua2k (Apr 15, 2022)

karloil said:


> Yes, we both got the C9 yesterday  Although I got mine from Jaben. Stocks just arrived Wednesday night.
> 
> Will be using it everywhere permitted  For now it's still stuck at home. Now I'm looking for a storage case, got a spare Pelican case and it fits perfectly but still looking for other alternatives.
> 
> ...


Although expensive compared to others, the Van Nuys 12 is the best out there in my opinion. I also got the Van Nuys 6 for when I don't bring the C9.


----------



## karloil

qua2k said:


> Although expensive compared to others, the Van Nuys 12 is the best out there in my opinion. I also got the Van Nuys 6 for when I don't bring the C9.



Thanks for the photo👍🏼 It does look great! Will check if our local seller has the same model and further look into it.


----------



## xenithon

In terms of battery life / health….with DAPs I’ve often read to not charge up to full or let them run flat, which is advice I follow with the C9. But have also read that slower charging mag be better for battery life - do you guys use higher power / quick charge with your C9’s or do you prefer to stick to slower charging?


----------



## qua2k

xenithon said:


> In terms of battery life / health….with DAPs I’ve often read to not charge up to full or let them run flat, which is advice I follow with the C9. But have also read that slower charging mag be better for battery life - do you guys use higher power / quick charge with your C9’s or do you prefer to stick to slower charging?


Do you mean charging the 18650 batteries outside of the C9 module? I think the battery module maxes whatever power is being charged to the batteries, so using a fastcharge outlet vs not a fastcharge should not have a difference? Correct me if I am wrong.

I would say that it would be beneficial to run any rechargeable battery to zero once in a while to ensure longevity. I do agree that doing this day in week over week is not healthy.


----------



## jlemaster1957

qua2k said:


> Do you mean charging the 18650 batteries outside of the C9 module? I think the battery module maxes whatever power is being charged to the batteries, so using a fastcharge outlet vs not a fastcharge should not have a difference? Correct me if I am wrong.
> 
> I would say that it would be beneficial to run any rechargeable battery to zero once in a while to ensure longevity. I do agree that doing this day in week over week is not healthy.


In fact (@Andykong pls correct me) I think that C9 shuts down when the batteries discharge to 3.0 V and max charge (all 4 lights on) is ~4.3-4.5 V. So even after automatic shutdown (ie protective mode is triggered), tbe batteries are still not FULLY discharged.


----------



## karloil (Apr 15, 2022)

xenithon said:


> In terms of battery life / health….with DAPs I’ve often read to not charge up to full or let them run flat, which is advice I follow with the C9. But have also read that slower charging mag be better for battery life - do you guys use higher power / quick charge with your C9’s or do you prefer to stick to slower charging?



Technically, it's safe to fully charge batteries nowadays - they now have built in protection circuit that automatically stops charging when the battery is already full, then the charging circuit switches over to trickle charging instead. I have done this for years - leaving my phones plugged in overnight and just unplugging them in the morning - no battery issues because the charging circuit protects the battery. Same concept as with any other battery enabled device today.

On my C9, I just leave it plugged in using my normal USB (5V/2A) overnight and just unplug in the morning. I use my QC3.0 charger when I want to top it up quickly. Else, I will always use slow charging. 

I normally run my batteries flat every now and then, you can't help it, you're using the device. Just charge it immediately so that it doesn't go completely below the voltage threshold - done this for years and I had no issues with any of my batteries.


----------



## karloil

qua2k said:


> I would say that it would be beneficial to run any rechargeable battery to zero once in a while to ensure longevity. I do agree that doing this day in week over week is not healthy.



This is the case back then when rechargeable batteries are still Ni-Cd and Ni-MH based as there's memory effect, they really need to be fully discharged. Not the case with Li-Ion and Li-Po based batteries as they don't have any memory effect - BUT I did read somewhere, can't find the article (a long time ago) that Li-Ion and Li-Po still benefit from being fully discharge from time to time. So I also run them down - maybe once a quarter or half year just for the heck of it 😂


----------



## AnalogandDigital

Cayin C9 is arriving
Who pairs with the N8ii ... ?


----------



## xenithon

AnalogandDigital said:


> Cayin C9 is arriving
> Who pairs with the N8ii ... ?


I think @HiFiHawaii808 does?


----------



## justanut

karloil said:


> BUT I did read somewhere, can't find the article (a long time ago) that Li-Ion and Li-Po still benefit from being fully discharge from time to time. So I also run them down - maybe once a quarter or half year just for the heck of it 😂


Most articles I've come across say otherwise - best not to fully discharge Li-ion batteries ,or even go below 30% if possible. I know it's definitely bad to store fully discharged batteries.


----------



## karloil (Apr 18, 2022)

justanut said:


> Most articles I've come across say otherwise - best not to fully discharge Li-ion batteries ,or even go below 30% if possible. I know it's definitely bad to store fully discharged batteries.



Yes, that's true (I didn't say otherwise) for Li-Ion and Li-Po, it's how the chemical composition is. But then again, as with any battery enabled device, you'll also run them down (phone, laptop, powerbanks) - so it's technically "the same" as saying "fully discharging" them


----------



## qua2k (Apr 19, 2022)

I am just a sucker for cases it seems. With the Van Nuys 12 has almost everything except.... room for an extra battery module, if needed. So a few days looking and settled on the Pelican 1020 Micro with the additional block foam insert. With taking what was removed and having it as padding when closed, does a good job imo.


----------



## jlemaster1957

qua2k said:


> I am just a sucker for cases it seems. With the Van Nuys 12 has almost everything except.... room for an extra battery module, if needed. So a few days looking and settled on the Pelican 1020 Micro with the additional block foam insert. With taking what was removed and having it as padding when closed, does a good job imo.


Nice- seems much better than slotting it back into the box that the recharging unit came on, which is too tight a squeeze for it- I am always worried that I will damage the recharger when I put it back in there.


----------



## qua2k (Apr 20, 2022)

jlemaster1957 said:


> Nice- seems much better than slotting it back into the box that the recharging unit came on, which is too tight a squeeze for it- I am always worried that I will damage the recharger when I put it back in there.


No problem, just sharing my experiences with others, hope it helps some!

I know how long a cardboard sleeve lasts in the wild, so definitely needed something better than the stock box. I also wanted something that would fit it in place, no movement, and keep the chip part obviously free of anything. I think this checks all boxes and can also get run over by a car if need be.


----------



## karloil (Apr 20, 2022)

qua2k said:


> I am just a sucker for cases it seems. With the Van Nuys 12 has almost everything except.... room for an extra battery module, if needed. So a few days looking and settled on the Pelican 1020 Micro with the additional block foam insert. With taking what was removed and having it as padding when closed, does a good job imo.



Noice! Decided to use my extra Pelican as well and just buy new foam inserts.


----------



## AnalogandDigital

karloil said:


> Noice! Decided to use my extra Pelican as well and just buy new foam inserts.


That's what I might get as well


----------



## karloil

AnalogandDigital said:


> That's what I might get as well



Was looking for a case that would carry "all" (DAP, DAC, C9, cables, IEMs) but nothing that suits my preference. My DAP, DAC, cables already has a case I'm satisfied using. So decided to save some $ and just use this 1060 that I have extra. Some nifty cutting of the foam inserts and I have a case that snugly fits the C9 😁


----------



## Marat Sar

What's the current stand on battery rolling for the C9? Last I checked was a year ago, someone had found a single model that they said sounded a little cleaner than the stock ones -- but it was always out of stock so I didn't get to try it.

Any changes in the meanwhile? Any batteries that do good things for the sound? Or was battery rolling always just a bit of a... wank idea? Don't get me wrong, I'm not a sceptic. I'd of LOVE to hear there's a 20 USD pair of batteries I can buy that makes my C9 10% better


----------



## AnalogandDigital

Marat Sar said:


> What's the current stand on battery rolling for the C9? Last I checked was a year ago, someone had found a single model that they said sounded a little cleaner than the stock ones -- but it was always out of stock so I didn't get to try it.
> 
> Any changes in the meanwhile? Any batteries that do good things for the sound? Or was battery rolling always just a bit of a... wank idea? Don't get me wrong, I'm not a sceptic. I'd of LOVE to hear there's a 20 USD pair of batteries I can buy that makes my C9 10% better


Than I'll take the $ 200.00 batteries ... 🤣


----------



## Nostoi

Marat Sar said:


> What's the current stand on battery rolling for the C9? Last I checked was a year ago, someone had found a single model that they said sounded a little cleaner than the stock ones -- but it was always out of stock so I didn't get to try it.
> 
> Any changes in the meanwhile? Any batteries that do good things for the sound? Or was battery rolling always just a bit of a... wank idea? Don't get me wrong, I'm not a sceptic. I'd of LOVE to hear there's a 20 USD pair of batteries I can buy that makes my C9 10% better


Given that people love to *fiddle* with things in audiophile arena, I strongly suspect that you hit the nail on the head with your apt formulation that battery rolling is indeed - in all likelihood - nothing more but also nothing less than a _wank idea_.


----------



## jlemaster1957

Marat Sar said:


> What's the current stand on battery rolling for the C9? Last I checked was a year ago, someone had found a single model that they said sounded a little cleaner than the stock ones -- but it was always out of stock so I didn't get to try it.
> 
> Any changes in the meanwhile? Any batteries that do good things for the sound? Or was battery rolling always just a bit of a... wank idea? Don't get me wrong, I'm not a sceptic. I'd of LOVE to hear there's a 20 USD pair of batteries I can buy that makes my C9 10% better


@Whitigir​stated of the Orbotronic 3500mAh 18650 High Drain Rechargeable Battery 3.7V Flat Top earlier in this thread​
“Best batteries with blackest back ground, best sub bass and bass body, tube like transients overall, smoother trebles, great textures. Highly recommended”

https://www.orbtronic.com/3500mah-18650-imr-battery-high-drain-rechargeable-orbtronic-li-ion

I have these as my spare pair for C9. I do not hear a sonic difference Myself, but they work in all ways as well as the stock VTC6s


----------



## Marat Sar

jlemaster1957 said:


> Orbotronic 3500mAh 18650



Sadly there doesn't seem to be any way to get those outside of the US/CAN (to the UK). Seems like these are the only one anyone's tried really, I remember trying to buy them a year ago 

DAMN YOU WONDERBATTERIES! Why don't they bring them to this stupid isle! Now I will never have whitgr's black background, and will have to make due with the BAD background my regular batteries give me.


----------



## DaYooper

Marat Sar said:


> Sadly there doesn't seem to be any way to get those outside of the US/CAN (to the UK). Seems like these are the only one anyone's tried really, I remember trying to buy them a year ago
> 
> DAMN YOU WONDERBATTERIES! Why don't they bring them to this stupid isle! Now I will never have whitgr's black background, and will have to make due with the BAD background my regular batteries give me.


And if you can actually tell the difference then you will NEVER be satisfied. So...stick with stock.


----------



## PhenixS1970

Hi all. I am eyeing a C9 and would pair it primarily with my Paw 6K but also with Mojo 2.  Is there a consensus on the Mojo 2 gain (as per colors)? Thanks a lot in advance.


----------



## Spawn300Z

PhenixS1970 said:


> Hi all. I am eyeing a C9 and would pair it primarily with my Paw 6K but also with Mojo 2.  Is there a consensus on the Mojo 2 gain (as per colors)? Thanks a lot in advance.


I currently use my Mojo 2/Poly combo with my C9. It’s been great so far. Haven’t played a lot with all the settings yet.


----------



## Frankie Lam

My cayin c9 has not been used for weeks. It cannot be turned on these days, but the power supply shows that it is fully charged. Is it broken?


----------



## Nostoi

PhenixS1970 said:


> Hi all. I am eyeing a C9 and would pair it primarily with my Paw 6K but also with Mojo 2.  Is there a consensus on the Mojo 2 gain (as per colors)? Thanks a lot in advance.


Blue-purple. C9 and Mojo2 is an exquisite pairing, BTW (much better than Mojo OG).


----------



## PhenixS1970

Nostoi said:


> Blue-purple. C9 and Mojo2 is an exquisite pairing, BTW (much better than Mojo OG).


Thank you very much Nostoi exactly what I wanted to know   If someone has an idea about recommended voltage output from Lotoo Paw 6000 that would be great as well.


----------



## The1Signature

Frankie Lam said:


> My cayin c9 has not been used for weeks. It cannot be turned on these days, but the power supply shows that it is fully charged. Is it broken?


latest firmware?


----------



## Nostoi

PhenixS1970 said:


> Thank you very much Nostoi exactly what I wanted to know   If someone has an idea about recommended voltage output from Lotoo Paw 6000 that would be great as well.


I had the Paw6K and seem to remember it's standard 2v? That should be fine with C9. C9 does most of the heavy work, so you'd only need to go to 3v or above with demanding headphones.


----------



## PhenixS1970

Nostoi said:


> I had the Paw6K and seem to remember it's standard 2v? That should be fine with C9. C9 does most of the heavy work, so you'd only need to go to 3v or above with demanding headphones.


2 strikes in a row for Nostoi lol.  Thank you again.  With my collection of IEM and Grado's I should be fine with 2v.


----------



## Nostoi

PhenixS1970 said:


> 2 strikes in a row for Nostoi lol.  Thank you again.  With my collection of IEM and Grado's I should be fine with 2v.


Happy to help. Yep, you'd only need 2v there.  Enjoy!


----------



## Frankie Lam

The1Signature said:


> latest firmware?


No, it won't turn on after a few weeks of use.


----------



## Nostoi

Frankie Lam said:


> No, it won't turn on after a few weeks of use.


Take out the battery unit for 10 minutes or so. Then plug it back in and wait a good 20 minutes. It's probably/maybe gone into protection mode.


----------



## The1Signature

Nostoi said:


> Take out the battery unit for 10 minutes or so. Then plug it back in and wait a good 20 minutes. It's probably/maybe gone into protection mode.


this is what B&O also have - protection mode - the battery based soundbars that go into "deep sleep" mode automatically and true, you have to follow 1-2 steps to "wake up" the device.


----------



## Frankie Lam

The1Signature said:


> this is what B&O also have - protection mode - the battery based soundbars that go into "deep sleep" mode automatically and true, you have to follow 1-2 steps to "wake up" the device.


Tried it,still can't start


----------



## NJoyzAudio

Frankie Lam said:


> Tried it,still can't start


Unless you've lost a 18650 cell completely, it does sound like you went into protection mode, as Andy Kong discussed very early in this thread
If I remember that thread correctly
As you tried, remove and replace the battery pack, then you have to plug in a charger for a short period of time, as plugging in finalizes the reset.
Hopefully that will reset your device, else you may have lost a single battery cell


----------



## AnalogandDigital

Just arrived ...


----------



## Frankie Lam

The1Signature said:


> this is what B&O also have - protection mode - the battery based soundbars that go into "deep sleep" mode automatically and true, you have to follow 1-2 steps to "wake up" the device.


Thank you! Cayin c9 is working normally today


----------



## Infoseeker

Has anyone made a comparison between the C9 and a Sengaku amp?


----------



## AnalogandDigital

Infoseeker said:


> Has anyone made a comparison between the C9 and a Sengaku amp?


Sangaku is not balanced ...


----------



## Infoseeker (May 2, 2022)

AnalogandDigital said:


> Sangaku is not balanced ...



For the subjective differences, not that. xD

I feel my C9 is too "clean" sounding. Not as colored as I hoped in all the configurations.


----------



## AnalogandDigital (May 2, 2022)

Infoseeker said:


> For the subjective differences, not that. xD
> 
> I feel my C9 is too "clean" sounding. Not as colored as I hoped in all the configurations.


Traveling but test driving my C9 is for next week
You mean it just amplifies and adds nothing like warmth to the sound ?


----------



## Nostoi

Infoseeker said:


> For the subjective differences, not that. xD
> 
> I feel my C9 is too "clean" sounding. Not as colored as I hoped in all the configurations.


C9 is very transparent, which is part of its appeal. If you want colour, you need WA8.


----------



## Slim1970

Infoseeker said:


> For the subjective differences, not that. xD
> 
> I feel my C9 is too "clean" sounding. Not as colored as I hoped in all the configurations.


I think the C9 adds a touch of warmth to the sound with a slightly elevated low end. Th C9 is very detailed with excellent clarity. The tone of the C9 pairs well with all my headphones.


----------



## Slim1970

Nostoi said:


> C9 is very transparent, which is part of its appeal. If you want colour, you need WA8.


My WA8 will be here tomorrow


----------



## Nostoi

Slim1970 said:


> My WA8 will be here tomorrow


Look forward to your impressions! Speaking of elevated low end, now there's an amp that will give any headphone some lower body (even gave my Hd800s a bit of "slam"). Great counterpart to the precision of the C9.


----------



## Infoseeker (May 2, 2022)

AnalogandDigital said:


> Traveling but test driving my C9 is for next week
> You mean it just amplifies and adds nothing like warmth to the sound ?



Yeah, but not just warmth. I feel there is a stage if warmth--organic nuetral--cold nuetral

My Utopia upper-mids single-peak's harshness is emphasized on the C9, and my HD800S definitely does not  have any synnergy with the Cayin C9.

 Warmth would have been ideal, but the Cayin is just overly transparent and not even oranic-nuetral. The Cayin C9 is closer to cold-nuetral than organic-nuetral in my opinion.


----------



## AnalogandDigital

Infoseeker said:


> Yeah, barely any warmth.
> 
> My Utopia upper-mids single-peak's harshness is emphasized on the C9, and my HD800S definitely does not  have any synnergy with the Cayin C9.
> 
> The Cayin C9 is closer to cold-nuetral than organic-nuetral in my opinion.


Mmmm so pretty sterile ... ?


----------



## Nostoi

Infoseeker said:


> Yeah, barely any warmth.
> 
> My Utopia upper-mids single-peak's harshness is emphasized on the C9, and my HD800S definitely does not  have any synnergy with the Cayin C9.
> 
> The Cayin C9 is closer to cold-nuetral than organic-nuetral in my opinion.


WA8 is a winner with HD800s. Golden pairing. 

What's your source/DAP/DAC with the C9? The C9 is very revealing, so it won't really soften anything unless your're on class a and tube mode (but even then, it's fairly neutral).


----------



## Nostoi

AnalogandDigital said:


> Mmmm so pretty sterile ... ?


Wouldn't say that at all. Sterile to mean means lifeless - the C9 is very dynamic with great punch. You may not like the timbre, but it's not sterile.


----------



## Infoseeker (May 2, 2022)

Yeah, not sterile cause it does feel dynamic with note weight and all. Just not my ideal sound from a source though. Still not as much depth as I would like though.

Great amp, but not great copium.


----------



## Nostoi

Infoseeker said:


> Yeah, not sterile cause it does feel dynamic with note weight and all. Just not my ideal sound from a source though. Still not as much depth as I would like though.
> 
> Great amp, but not great copium.


Copium?


----------



## dadracer2

Infoseeker said:


> Yeah, not sterile cause it does feel dynamic with note weight and all. Just not my ideal sound from a source though. Still not as much depth as I would like though.
> 
> Great amp, but not great copium.


I'd have to say that I agree with Nostoi and also I can't see how you can describe the C9 as lacking depth.


----------



## Infoseeker (May 2, 2022)

Nostoi said:


> Copium?


hehe, just an inside joke.

People tell me "Stop trying to make the Utopia & HD800S work!" "Stop applying copium and replace the headphones themselves!".

But I am really using them as my reference. Not trying to cope.

I do have things that the Cayin C9 can match with. Some of my less treble tilted iems and headphones.


Still it's fun to say if a matching source "applies copium" to the picky hd800S and Utopia though.


----------



## Infoseeker (May 2, 2022)

dadracer2 said:


> I'd have to say that I agree with Nostoi and also I can't see how you can describe the C9 as lacking depth.



It's odd, but straight out of my ibasso dap I am getting less congested sound and more depth out if the Utopia.

It probably is the Utopia being source picky. Seems to behave better straight out of the dap.

Maybe I should consider the Utopia an outlier for the C9. Using my JVC-Victor HA-WM90-B the depth of the Cayin C9 seems to sound much better and dynamic.

I'll take back what I said about the depth. Just don't match the Utopia with the Cayin C9 I'd say.

Maybe I need to find a AKM dac setup to see if the "velvety" sound works out better with the Cayin C9/Utopia. Since the Cayin C9 seems really transparent.....but My ibasso dx300max is being sent out for repair. I should try it with my Gustard a22 dac instead.

I am currently trying it off my Chord Hugo 2/2Go and my Ibasso dx300 (amp12), and the dx220MAX


----------



## NJoyzAudio

Infoseeker said:


> It's odd, but straight out of my ibasso dap I am getting less congested sound and more depth out if the Utopia.
> 
> It probably is the Utopia being source picky. Seems to behave better straight out of the dap.
> 
> ...


Infoseeker:

I find the C9 responds well to all input changes
I've changed from the Copper cable that came stock and ran quite a bit of testing and ended up with an 8 wire mixed wire make up IC and it really changed the way the C9 sounds.

I'd recommend trying various IC's but be warned its a slippery slope and you'll have to decide how much you want to spend to see incremental changes
I went to an extreme not many will do but I feel its paying dividends, that my DAP/C9 combo is by far outpacing the N8ii DAP I recently purchase (and hoping I'm not going to have to sell it) with some of the similar amp/timbre options the C9 offers.
My testing comments are much earlier in this thread.

Hope this helps


----------



## Nostoi

Infoseeker said:


> I am currently trying it off my Chord Hugo 2/2Go and my Ibasso dx300 (amp12), and the dx220MAX


I'm a big fan of Hugo 2Go and C9 because it's super revealing (and ditto Max). If you want smooth and velvet, try to track down A02 module for N6ii. That's coloured.


----------



## cwensil

Anyone know the best place to get batteries for the Cayin C9?


----------



## jlemaster1957

cwensil said:


> Anyone know the best place to get batteries for the Cayin C9?


Where are you based (country)?


----------



## cwensil

US, North Florida


----------



## qua2k

cwensil said:


> US, North Florida


For US: https://www.orbtronic.com/3500mah-18650-imr-battery-high-drain-rechargeable-orbtronic-li-ion


----------



## jlemaster1957

cwensil said:


> US, North Florida


Try BatteryMart.com and Orbtronic- I have used both. The Sony stock murata VTC6’s are currently in stock at the first one. I have used both, their batteries are good ones/genuine.


----------



## cwensil

Thank you. I appreciate the help.


----------



## cwensil

Just ordered the batteries from batterymart.com. Ordered the Cayin C9 from MusicTeck. It should be here Thursday.


----------



## Spawn300Z

cwensil said:


> Anyone know the best place to get batteries for the Cayin C9?


I a actually have an extra set of new batteries for C9. I accidentally bought two sets when I bought my spare battery holder for the C9. PM me if interested


----------



## Spawn300Z

I’m currently running the Chord Mojo 2/Poly combo with my C9. I think it does wonders with my Diana V2s. That’s my portable rig using 12.9” iPad Pro or iPhone 12 Pro Max


----------



## jlemaster1957 (May 2, 2022)

cwensil said:


> Just ordered the batteries from batterymart.com. Ordered the Cayin C9 from MusicTeck. It should be here Thursday.


Do checkout the spare battery module /charger from Musicteck. You can probably get an aftermarket battery charger for the 18650’s bit having a spare unit charged up and ready to slip into the C9 is pretty dope. Do also read thru this thread for the charging-while-playing warnings as well. Andykong has put links to them on Page 1 of this thread.


----------



## AnalogandDigital (May 2, 2022)

How long in average does it take from 50% to 100% ?


----------



## Spawn300Z

jlemaster1957 said:


> Do checkout the spare battery module /charger from Musicteck. You can probably get an aftermarket battery charger for the 18650’s bit having a spare unit charged up and ready to slip into the C9 is pretty dope. Do also read thru this thread for the charging-while-playing warnings as well. Andykong has put links to them on Page 1 of this thread.


That’s what I did. Keep it charged ready to go.


----------



## cwensil

Thanks. I purchased the spare battery module as well from MusicTeck when I purchased the C9.


----------



## qua2k

cwensil said:


> Thanks. I purchased the spare battery module as well from MusicTeck when I purchased the C9.


The case is nice as well, bundle bundle!


----------



## jlemaster1957

AnalogandDigital said:


> How long in average does it take from 50% to 100% ?


If you use a QuickCharge 3.0 charger it will charge from 1 light (the level at which you should recharge) to 4th light blinking (when you should stop charging) in 3 hours. There has been debate on the thread whether you can safely charge to 4 lights (solid) and discharge until C9 shuts down. Probably this will decrease battery life some; however, your battery cycles will last longer if you do this. Others have advised that it will not hurt the battery life much to do so, but that you should not leave it plugged in/charging all night after recharging, regularly. A set of 4 batteries will cost you $65- 80 USD,


----------



## AnalogandDigital

jlemaster1957 said:


> If you use a QuickCharge 3.0 charger it will charge from 1 light (the level at which you should recharge) to 4th light blinking (when you should stop charging) in 3 hours. There has been debate on the thread whether you can safely charge to 4 lights (solid) and discharge until C9 shuts down. Probably this will decrease battery life some; however, your battery cycles will last longer if you do this. Others have advised that it will not hurt the battery life much to do so, but that you should not leave it plugged in/charging all night after recharging, regularly. A set of 4 batteries will cost you $65- 80 USD,


Thanks I checked the battery prices earlier
Between $ 10.00 and $ 17.00 a piece so that's nothing actually
And 3 hours is nothing either


----------



## Infoseeker

I feel my Cayin C9 being so transparent is redundant in my dx220max dap which is already so powerful.

Does anyone mod these Cayin C9 to be more colored? Or should I just sell for something else like a diy Sangaku? or a WA8?


----------



## jlemaster1957 (May 3, 2022)

Infoseeker said:


> I feel my Cayin C9 being so transparent is redundant in my dx220max dap which is already so powerful.
> 
> Does anyone mod these Cayin C9 to be more colored? Or should I just sell for something else like a diy Sangaku? or a WA8?


To cite @twister6 in his C9 review, an appreciation of what C9 adds needs to compare DAP Line-out (DAC only) + C9 vs  DAP (DAC + amp) because C9 is an amplifier only - ie to compare the DAP amplifier stage to C9 . When this is done methodically (as he did in his review here)  the most common improvement noted is soundstage being more expanded, both in stereo separation and improved 3D imaging and overall tonality with more natural fuller body sound ( with variation in that according to the tube or class A vs AB ) and improvements in micro-dynamics with layers of sounds being more separated and less compressed (improvement in vertical dynamics).

I have certainly noted all this to be the case, as a C9 owner —with more noticeable improvements in DAPs and IEMs that are mid-fi vs TOTL - I find that C9 ‘elevates’ more those that have less advanced technical performance. Could it be that C9 may not improve as much cp to a powerful amp stage like that in DX220MAX?

Having said all this, I have connected C9 via PO from Hiby R8 with Turbo=ON —> C9 pre-amp mode and that definitely coloured the sound more, ramping up all of the above SQ characteristics (although at that point I found bass quantity started getting a bit OOC -haven’t figured out how to increase the headroom in the R8). In the end I mostly use C9 via Hiby R8 LO and find it practically perfect - in particular I enjoy LEGEND X in this arrangement (although that IS a TOTL IEM)- because C9 improves bass texture and dynamics without changing impact in comparison to what I can hear from R8 alone.


----------



## mmoderni

Would like to try a pair with hiby rs6 or hiby r8 and my C9. Actually I have it paired with dx300 (amp11.1 + C9 amp mode).
Someone that could point out the difference between dx300 and rs6/r8 with c9?
Thanks for helping me.


----------



## cwensil

qua2k said:


> The case is nice as well, bundle bundle!


Got the case too


----------



## Slim1970 (May 3, 2022)

Infoseeker said:


> I feel my Cayin C9 being so transparent is redundant in my dx220max dap which is already so powerful.
> 
> Does anyone mod these Cayin C9 to be more colored? Or should I just sell for something else like a diy Sangaku? or a WA8?


After a brief listening session with the WA8/Mojo 2 combo today, I have to agree with @Nostoi. If you're seeking a more "colored' sound the WA8 is the way to go. You talk about having a warm, full-bodied sound that is full of tubey goodness the WA8 delivers. The WA8 is mesmerizing and hynotic with my VO's.

I still think the C9 is a lot more detailed with better overall clarity, but it is a more solid state sounding device in comparison to the WA8. The C9 is way more flexible, but its tube mode pales in comparison to the fully tubed powered WA8. I think the C9 and WA8 are the best two portable amps that I have had the pleasure of owning.


----------



## AnalogandDigital

I already had the Cayin C9
So pushed the button today ...
Using @twister6 his - you get the - picture


----------



## Infoseeker

cayin c9 seems redundant being transparent to the chain before it. (especially to my powerful daps)

But seems to be doing a good job powering the HE6. 

Dx300 line-out--> Cayin C9 (Tube mode, class-A) --> HE6

Using I think this is ZMF pads that reduce the cold tilt and vocal-glare/ringing of the he6 6-screw.







Tube mode, Class-A


----------



## Nostoi

Slim1970 said:


> After a brief listening session with the WA8/Mojo 2 combo today, I have to agree with @Nostoi. If you're seeking a more "colored' sound the WA8 is the way to go. You talk about having a warm, full-bodied sound that is full of tubey goodness the WA8 delivers. The WA8 is mesmerizing and hynotic with my VO's.
> 
> I still think the C9 is a lot more detailed with better overall clarity, but it is a more solid state sounding device in comparison to the WA8. The C9 is way more flexible, but its tube mode pales in comparison to the fully tubed powered WA8. I think the C9 and WA8 are the best two portable amps that I have had the pleasure of owning.


Glad to hear you're enjoying the combo. VC was also an exceptional pairing on the WA8. And yes, the tube sound on the C9 isn't really tubey at all; if you want a full tube sound, WA8 is the way to go.

This a bit off-topic (sorry), but did you try your D8K Pro with the WA8 yet? I've been on this set-up this afternoon with Hugo 2 and I'm *very* impressed. I think I may have dismissed this pairing before, because I thought the Final's had better synergy with SS, but I may have been wrong. The WA8 seems to do wonders for the dynamics on the D8K Pro without subtracting from the texture/detail across the frequency. Give it a go if you haven't already done so.


----------



## AnalogandDigital

Infoseeker said:


> cayin c9 seems redundant being transparent to the chain before it. (especially to my powerful daps)
> 
> But seems to be doing a good job powering the HE6.
> 
> ...


My DX300 arrives later this week
Bought one to test drive 
Let's see if I like it and go DX320
The HE6 definitely needs some power 
I've read someone driving his Susvara with the C9
But it's missing some Bass he posted


----------



## Infoseeker

AnalogandDigital said:


> My DX300 arrives later this week
> Bought one to test drive
> Let's see if I like it and go DX320
> The HE6 definitely needs some power
> ...



It is missing some bass. The ZMF pads help in the aspect, also the pads are reducing the headphone's slight upper-mids/vocal glare.


----------



## Slim1970

Nostoi said:


> Glad to hear you're enjoying the combo. VC was also an exceptional pairing on the WA8. And yes, the tube sound on the C9 isn't really tubey at all; if you want a full tube sound, WA8 is the way to go.
> 
> This a bit off-topic (sorry), but did you try your D8K Pro with the WA8 yet? I've been on this set-up this afternoon with Hugo 2 and I'm *very* impressed. I think I may have dismissed this pairing before, because I thought the Final's had better synergy with SS, but I may have been wrong. The WA8 seems to do wonders for the dynamics on the D8K Pro without subtracting from the texture/detail across the frequency. Give it a go if you haven't already done so.


I’ll give the WA8/D8K Pro a go and PM you


----------



## Andykong

Infoseeker said:


> I feel my Cayin C9 being so transparent is redundant in my dx220max dap which is already so powerful.
> 
> Does anyone mod these Cayin C9 to be more colored? Or should I just sell for something else like a diy Sangaku? or a WA8?





Slim1970 said:


> After a brief listening session with the WA8/Mojo 2 combo today, I have to agree with @Nostoi. If you're seeking a more "colored' sound the WA8 is the way to go. You talk about having a warm, full-bodied sound that is full of tubey goodness the WA8 delivers. The WA8 is mesmerizing and hynotic with my VO's.
> 
> I still think the C9 is a lot more detailed with better overall clarity, but it is a more solid state sounding device in comparison to the WA8. The C9 is way more flexible, but its tube mode pales in comparison to the fully tubed powered WA8. I think the C9 and WA8 are the best two portable amps that I have had the pleasure of owning.



Glad to be named as one of the two best portable amp. in the market.

I would like to remind readers again that C9 is a hybrid amplifier with Nutube at the first amplification stage. WA9 is an all-tube amplifier.  All amplification stages of WA8 are vacuum tube-based and it is output transformer-coupled.  If @Infoseeker is looking for a tubey or colored amplifier, a hybrid amplifier is not your first choice, the all-tube transformer-coupled WA8 should be closer to your preferences.

On the other hand, because C9 is very transparent, the most effective way to make it sound warm is to use a warm-sounding DAP and connect to C9 in pre-amp input mode.


----------



## jlemaster1957 (May 12, 2022)

Andykong said:


> Glad to be named as one of the two best portable amp. in the market.
> 
> I would like to remind readers again that C9 is a hybrid amplifier with Nutube at the first amplification stage. WA9 is an all-tube amplifier.  All amplification stages of WA8 are vacuum tube-based and it is output transformer-coupled.  If @Infoseeker is looking for a tubey or colored amplifier, a hybrid amplifier is not your first choice, the all-tube transformer-coupled WA8 should be closer to your preferences.
> 
> On the other hand, because C9 is very transparent, the most effective way to make it sound warm is to use a warm-sounding DAP and connect to C9 in pre-amp input mode.


Agree with Andy on this- have found Hiby R8 with Turbo=on —> C9 pre-amp allows for an additional level of SQ alteration (in that case Turbo increases macro- dynamics esp Bass) . One wonders what might be the effect to connect WA8 line out to C9 pre-amp! Too much of a good thing? I note though that WA8 is se only so the line out to C9 would have to be 3.5 mm not 4.4 mm balanced - somewhat limiting full C9 capabilities. Though not sure if anyone would ever really want to do this!


----------



## Nostoi

jlemaster1957 said:


> Agree with Andy on this- have found Hiby R8 with Turbo=on —> C9 pre-amp allows for an additional level of SQ alteration (in that case Turbo increases macro- dynamics esp Bass) . One wonders what might be the effect to connect WA8 line out to C9 pre-amp! Too much of a good thing? I note though that WA8 is se only so the line out to C9 would have to be 3.5 mm not 4.4 mm balanced - somewhat limiting full C9 capabilities. Though not sure if anyone would ever really want to do this!


I did try using the WA8 as a sort of preamp to the C9 and it works surprisingly well - combines the best of both worlds. All the transparency and resolution of the C9 with more warmth and texture. The downside is that it's ridiculously cumbersome, but if you have both it's worth a try.


----------



## dadracer2

Nostoi said:


> I did try using the WA8 as a sort of preamp to the C9 and it works surprisingly well - combines the best of both worlds. All the transparency and resolution of the C9 with more warmth and texture. The downside is that it's ridiculously cumbersome, but if you have both it's worth a try.


Are saying that the N6ii/A02 is a warm(ish) DAP  for the purposes of this recommendation?????


----------



## Nostoi

dadracer2 said:


> Are saying that the N6ii/A02 is a warm(ish) DAP  for the purposes of this recommendation?????


I was actually using the Hugo2 as my source in this setup which is very neutral. The C9 is warmish only in conjunction with the WA8. But A02 is itself fairly smooth to my ears.


----------



## dadracer2

Ah sorry, my bad. I was replying to Andy and I clicked the wrong box. Your point is well made though thanks.


----------



## Andykong

dadracer2 said:


> Are saying that the N6ii/A02 is a warm(ish) DAP  for the purposes of this recommendation?????



N6ii/A02 is a warmish source when compare to N6ii/E02, so this is in relative terms.  There can be consent occasionally but in most cases, the term warmish and neutral reference is related to personal preference.


----------



## xenithon

I wanted to check - since the R8 line out is variable can it be used with the C9 in pre mode? And has anyone compared the sound using the C9 with R8 in line vs pre mode?


----------



## xenithon

jlemaster1957 said:


> Having said all this, I have connected C9 via PO from Hiby R8 with Turbo=ON —> C9 pre-amp mode and that definitely coloured the sound more, ramping up all of the above SQ characteristics


Out of interest, wouldn’t one be able to connect the R8 LO to the C9 seeing as it’s variable LO?


----------



## jlemaster1957

xenithon said:


> Out of interest, wouldn’t one be able to connect the R8 LO to the C9 seeing as it’s variable LO?


Yes- in pre-amp mode LO is variable; however, if I’m not mistaken, if NOT in pre-amp mode, setting R8 to Turbo=on has no sonic effect- at least I can hear none. In that case (line mode not pre-amp mode) I set R8 Turbo =off and gain =low to save R8 battery life. The C9 controls all the ‘amp’ side of the equation then. I have found that most of the time this is optimal for me.


----------



## mmoderni

xenithon said:


> I wanted to check - since the R8 line out is variable can it be used with the C9 in pre mode? And has anyone compared the sound using the C9 with R8 in line vs pre mode?


C9 pre amp mode bypass all of its gain circuit, so NEED to be used with a variable input (usually PO).
But if LO is variable too, then should work fine. 
Just pay attention that usually when you switch in LO on the dap, gain will be set by default to max gain. So very dangerous combination.


----------



## jlemaster1957

mmoderni said:


> C9 pre amp mode bypass all of its gain circuit, so NEED to be used with a variable input (usually PO).
> But if LO is variable too, then should work fine.
> Just pay attention that usually when you switch in LO on the dap, gain will be set by default to max gain. So very dangerous combination.


Agree whenever I use pre-amp on the C9 I have used PO not LO from the R8, and turned volume in R8 to lowest setting then adjusted to comfortable level.

The one thing I am not clear about (though if there is a reason why someone would want to do it I can check) is if any EQ settings are transmitted to C9 via LO when on line (not Pre-amp) mode— I don’t think so, but haven’t tried that out to check.


----------



## mmoderni

jlemaster1957 said:


> The one thing I am not clear about (though if there is a reason why someone would want to do it I can check) is if any EQ settings are transmitted to C9 via LO when on line (not Pre-amp) mode— I don’t think so, but haven’t tried that out to check.


I think it depends from each dap and which app do you use. 
From lotoo p6k eq was passed through LO.
On dx300 and amp12 if bit perfect no, otherwise yes. 
If I understood well your question.


----------



## AnalogandDigital (May 15, 2022)

Has anyone tried the Susvara with the C9 (and N8II perhaps) ?
Just wondering
What was the result ... 🤔
I read not up to it's full potential but ... ?


----------



## Halimj7

Can anyone please tell me if I can use the single ended input with the 4.4mm output for the sake of convenience (I know it won’t be a balanced signal). Thanks.


----------



## AnalogandDigital (May 19, 2022)

Halimj7 said:


> Can anyone please tell me if I can use the single ended input with the 4.4mm output for the sake of convenience (I know it won’t be a balanced signal). Thanks.


3.5mm output to 4.4mm pentacon is ok


----------



## Halimj7

AnalogandDigital said:


> 3.5mm output to 4.4mm pentacon is ok


You mean 3.5mm input to 4.4mm output? Thanks


----------



## AnalogandDigital

Halimj7 said:


> You mean 3.5mm input to 4.4mm output? Thanks


Never put unbalanced in balanced 
Suppose this makes all clear


----------



## Halimj7

AnalogandDigital said:


> Never put unbalanced in balanced
> Suppose this makes all clear


Sorry. Let me ask a different way. Can I use the 4.4mm headphone output if I am connected to a single ended source via the 3.5mm input? Thanks.


----------



## AnalogandDigital (May 19, 2022)

@Halimj7

*Balanced output*:
2.5mm Balanced: requires balanced cable
4.4mm Balanced: requires balanced cable
You can use a balanced adapter:
2.5mm to 4.4mm
4.4mm to 2.5mm

Everything balanced needs to stay balanced !

*Single Ended output:*
Plug in what you want with any adapter
2.5, 3.5, 4.4, 6.35


----------



## jlemaster1957 (May 19, 2022)

Halimj7 said:


> Sorry. Let me ask a different way. Can I use the 4.4mm headphone output if I am connected to a single ended source via the 3.5mm input? Thanks.


yes - you can have single ended (3.5 mm) or balanced (4.4 mm) input and either single-ended or balanced output (iems). The C9 will route the signal appropriately internally; however the channel separation will be narrower (narrower soundstage) with SEin~>SEout than balanced-in—>balanced out. SEin—> balanced out will be in between. See @Currawong ’s YT video  for more details.

You should of course also use the appropriate interconnects on inputs and appropriate IEM adapters on outputs as noted in prior posts.


----------



## AnalogandDigital

jlemaster1957 said:


> yes - you can have single ended (3.5 mm) or balanced (4.4 mm) input and either single-ended or balanced output (iems). The C9 will route the signal appropriately internally; however the cross-feed will be narrower (narrower soundstage) with SEin~>SEout than balanced-in—>balanced out. SEin—> balanced out will be in between. See @Currawong ’s YT video starting about 19 minutes for more details.


@Halimj7 My bad 
Thought we where talking N8II ... 🙄
Guess it's time for a 🍻


----------



## Halimj7

jlemaster1957 said:


> yes - you can have single ended (3.5 mm) or balanced (4.4 mm) input and either single-ended or balanced output (iems). The C9 will route the signal appropriately internally; however the channel separation will be narrower (narrower soundstage) with SEin~>SEout than balanced-in—>balanced out. SEin—> balanced out will be in between. See @Currawong ’s YT video  for more details.
> 
> You should of course also use the appropriate interconnects on inputs and appropriate IEM adapters on outputs as noted in prior posts.


Thank you! Now I’m ready to buy. What full size headphones do you guys use with the C9?


----------



## MrNailhead

So I've got a Fiio M11 Pro and a set of ZMF Eikon's that I use pretty regular with it - now I've always felt that the M11 pro drives my ZMF's just fine - I don't listen at really high volume levels typically and the music all sounds pretty darn good.  However, I am an audio nerd and i've started to think about what I want to upgrade to next - I like the idea of an all-in-one device such as the M17, but seeing as that costs about the same as a Cayin C9 I have started looking into those as well - I've read through a lot of this thread and it sounds like more than one person was a little disappointed in the combo of M17+C9 - that has me wondering what would be a better upgrade move - M11 Pro + C9 or an M17 by itself?  I can't afford to get both, but one of them would be doable.  Both devices seem very cool, would love to hear from some of the experts around here.  Thanks.


----------



## jlemaster1957 (May 24, 2022)

Halimj7 said:


> Thank you! Now I’m ready to buy. What full size headphones do you guys use with the C9?


I’ve been able to drive all my full size HPs with out difficulty and with good effect including Hifiman Arya and Audeze LCD-X but neither of those are that difficult to drive. Mind you, the Cayin C9 was designed with the IEM user in mind and its excellent in that sphere, although for VERY sensitive IEMS you might hear some hiss, though I never have (when the music is playing, there can be a buzz between songs in particular if you are also charging the unit or the Dap it is sourced by). Do read all of Andykong links on page 1 of this thread if you buy- there are a fair number of “never do this” rules - the most important of which is “do not while playing simultaneously charge the C9 and the DAP with both connected to the same power source eg charger to avoid a short circuit’ To be safe I just avoid charging both DAP and C9 at the same time while playing.


----------



## dadracer2

jlemaster1957 said:


> I’ve been able to drive all my full size HPs with out difficulty and with good effect including Hifiman Arya and Audeze LCD-X but neither of those are that difficult to drive. Mind you, the Cayin C9 was designed with the IEM user in mind and its excellent in that sphere, although for VERY sensitive IEMS you might hear some hiss, though I never have (when the music is playing, there can be a buzz between songs in particular if you are also charging the unit or the Dap it is sourced by). Do read all of Andykong links on page 1 of this thread if you buy- there are a fair number of “never do this” rules - the most important of which is “do not while playing simultaneously charge the C9 and the DAP with both connected to the same power source eg charger to avoid a short circuit’ To be safe I just avoid charging both DAP and C9 at the same time while playing.


You make great points. I think the C9 will power just about any headphone but the even better news is you can fine tune the sound on your headphone with choosing A or AB and the tube or SS so whatever you like will sound brilliant.


----------



## Onik (May 25, 2022)

anyone tried EE VALKYRIE MK II iems with c9? 

is the 4.4mm hiss free for high end iems?


----------



## CANiSLAYu

Halimj7 said:


> Sorry. Let me ask a different way. Can I use the 4.4mm headphone output if I am connected to a single ended source via the 3.5mm input? Thanks.


Yes, you just lose a little quality.  Check the chart on the very first post of this thread.  THD+N, Dynamic Range, SNR, Channel Separation are all better Bal>Bal compared to SE>Bal.


----------



## Infoseeker (May 30, 2022)

iFi Gryphon xBass into the Cayin C9. Interesting combo. Why can't the iFi Micro Signature do this? Silly Signature device with so many omitted pre-amp features.

iFi Gryphon set to:
Filter- Minimum Phase
xBass- On
xSpace - On
Presence mode - On
Volume set to 100

Cayin C9:
Tube mode
Class A mode.


----------



## jlemaster1957 (May 30, 2022)

Infoseeker said:


> iFi Gryphon xBass into the Cayin C9. Interesting combo. Why can't the iFi Micro Signature do this? Silly Signature device with so many omitted pre-amp features.
> 
> iFi Gryphon set to:
> Filter- Minimum Phase
> ...


IFi micro iDSD Signature -can- output into C9. I attach Audioquest RCA (R&L) out of speaker RCA connections to 3.5 mm SE input on C9 as shown. Signature must be operating on battery when playing (this is default but you can charge Signature while playing. If you do this do not charge C9 at the same time and particularly not from the same charging source, to avoid short circuit). Signature of course is a DAC/Amp so must have a source. Battery operated DAP is best to minimize short circuit risk, but I have connected the Signature to a Sonore MicroRendu streaming Roon  via USB without negative consequences. This whole connection is similar to Line Out to C9- volume is controlled on the C9 side. See photo.

FYI I have not found it possible to connect the Signature to C9 using Pre-amp in this configuration. No matter which Power Mode I use or IE Match setting, even at the lowest volume setting on Signature, the volume output from C9 is dangerously loud. I do not advise even to try it.

Having written all this, I almost never connect the Signature to C9 as described above. While Roon EQ has an effect on Sq in this setup ie if I increase volume of mids I can certainly tell the difference (so that would be an advantage), I can’t tell much difference with the different C9 modes (tube vs no tube, A VS AB). Plus there is no way to have balanced connection from the Signature into C9, we are stuck with SE since the RCA jacks are SE. Theoretically I could connect a 4.4 mm interconnect from Signature PO to the 4.4 input jack of C9. I haven’t done this, though,  because of the other limitations I noted above.

My usual set up to C9 is via Hiby R8. This works well for all my IEMs, both pre-mode vs line works well (pre-mode is great with R8 Turbo=on) and I can clearly distinguish all the C9 modes, and use true LO from R8 SE and balanced into C9. If I truly want to stream Roon into Hiby R8, that too is possible via USB into R8.


----------



## Infoseeker (May 30, 2022)

Oh, I worded that badly. I meant to point out the DSP effect. The advantage of the Gryphon over the Micro Signature,  is the xBass / xSpace / Presence DSP effects get passed along into the chain.

iFi Micro Signature doesn't pass along the xBass/xSpace to the RCA outputs (and it doesn't have the new "Presence" DSP effect).

The Micro Black device, can do the above like the Gryphon though.


The Cayin C9 is such a nice transparent amp, so it passes all this along with minimal artifacts. Though this isn't some big resolving setup; it has the fun old school analog-emulating sound that the Burr Brown chips excel at. End result is a really fun chain to mess with (portable too).


----------



## iFi audio

Infoseeker said:


> Though this isn't some big resolving setup; it has the fun old school analog-emulating sound that the Burr Brown chips excel at



That's quite accurate, however Burr-Browns don't contribute as much to making that sound as people think 



Infoseeker said:


> iFi Micro Signature doesn't pass along the xBass/xSpace to the RCA outputs (and it doesn't have the new "Presence" DSP effect).
> 
> The Micro Black device, can do the above like the Gryphon though.



Yes, micro iDSD Signature was designed to be a more streamlined device, so that it could outperform micro iDSD BL based on the same core platform. xDSD Gryphon however is an entirely different platform that allowed us to take a different approach. Hope this helps, thanks!


----------



## jlemaster1957 (May 31, 2022)

iFi audio said:


> That's quite accurate, however Burr-Browns don't contribute as much to making that sound as people think
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, micro iDSD Signature was designed to be a more streamlined device, so that it could outperform micro iDSD BL based on the same core platform. xDSD Gryphon however is an entirely different platform that allowed us to take a different approach. Hope this helps, thanks!


I affirm all this. For me, tbe best arrangement for IEMs and full sized headphones with the micro iDSD Signature is directly connected to my source (MicroRendu streamer, as I described in post 5689 above), as an endpoint —which is Roon  Tested and recognized btw). I am never lacking power for my headphones (lots of headroom left volume-wise). It plays 512k DSD 768k PCM, unfolds MQA and accepts Roon EQ well. IEMS require adjustment per the Power and IE Match settings and this works well even for sensitive IEMs. The XBass and 3D switches work as advertised - I particularly like using the XBass with the HIFIMAN Arya. It’s a great device, I have had no problems with it after I gave up trying to use it as a portable device connected to my iPhone. It will do this fine, but I much prefer it as a tidy, all-in-one DAC/amp desktop unit. YMMV.

While the Signature is equipped to output to speakers or other devices  via the single-ended RCA connections, I have not found any advantage to doing so, (though I have not tried it with full sized high-quality speakers as I don’t have room for those in my listening room- maybe someone else can comment on that? Although this is the Cayin C9 thread, so perhaps elsewhere on tbe Forum?)


----------



## karloil (May 31, 2022)

Hi @Andykong, just a quick question - can the Protection Circuit kick in even if *one *of my devices is turned OFF?

Setup: SE180 > 4.4mm to 4.4mm > C9

Scenario: I turned OFF the SE180 _AND _C9. Charged both using the same power brick BUT I forget to remove the 4.4mm to 4.4mm interconnect. The moment I turned on the C9, blinking single LED, C9 won't turn ON. At this point, the SE180 is still OFF.

Resolution: Removed the 4.4mm to 4.4mm interconnect. Plugged the C9 back to charge for a few seconds, C9 working again.


----------



## qua2k

karloil said:


> Hi @Andykong, just a quick question - can the Protection Circuit kick in even if *one *of my devices is turned OFF?
> 
> Setup: SE180 > 4.4mm to 4.4mm > C9
> 
> ...


Seems what triggered protection mode is charging the batteries to full and leaving it plugged in after the batteries were full? This is my guess.


----------



## karloil

qua2k said:


> Seems what triggered protection mode is charging the batteries to full and leaving it plugged in after the batteries were full? This is my guess.



Oh, just to clarify - when I mentioned "Charged both using the same power brick" - I literally just turned the charger ON. I just finished using both C9 and SE180.



Side note: I leave the C9 charging overnight, no issues there.


----------



## Andykong

karloil said:


> Hi @Andykong, just a quick question - can the Protection Circuit kick in even if *one *of my devices is turned OFF?
> 
> Setup: SE180 > 4.4mm to 4.4mm > C9
> 
> ...



As mentioned in my previous explanation, a short circuit happens when the C9 Audio Ground is connected to C9 charging ground through the source equipment.

C9 Audio Ground => Interconnect => Source Audio Ground = Source Charger Ground => C9 Charging Ground

If the DAP Audio ground and charged Ground are shared ground, it is shared no matter whether you power on or power off the DAP, with that, you'll trigger a protection mechanism even when you turned off the DAP.


----------



## qua2k (May 31, 2022)

Andykong said:


> As mentioned in my previous explanation, a short circuit happens when the C9 Audio Ground is connected to C9 charging ground through the source equipment.
> 
> C9 Audio Ground => Interconnect => Source Audio Ground = Source Charger Ground => C9 Charging Ground
> 
> If the DAP Audio ground and charged Ground are shared ground, it is shared no matter whether you power on or power off the DAP, with that, you'll trigger a protection mechanism even when you turned off the DAP.


Another specific use question if I may  Can you let me know why I do not get a short/protection mode enabled when doing the following: Computer USB out > Lotoo PAW Gold Touch CPU-DAC mode > 4.4 IC > C9 > charging off of same Computer. Reason for my question, while the LPGT is in CPU-DAC mode, the LPGT is charging at the same time and also running a USB charging cord to the C9. Technically, both devices are being charged off of the same Computer source but through different USB ports. But this does not trigger protection mode.


----------



## Andykong

qua2k said:


> Another specific use question if I may  Can you let me know why I do not get a short/protection mode enabled when doing the following: Computer USB out > Lotoo PAW Gold Touch CPU-DAC mode > 4.4 IC > C9 > charging off of same Computer. Reason for my question, while the LPGT is in CPU-DAC mode, the LPGT is charging at the same time and also running a USB charging cord to the C9. Technically, both devices are being charged off of the same Computer source but through different USB ports. But this does not trigger protection mode.



The 4.4mm IC is grounded or ungrounded?


----------



## jlemaster1957 (May 31, 2022)

karloil said:


> Hi @Andykong, just a quick question - can the Protection Circuit kick in even if *one *of my devices is turned OFF?
> 
> Setup: SE180 > 4.4mm to 4.4mm > C9
> 
> ...


@Andykong will hopefully weigh in but as I understand what you did is a C9 charging no-no.. it is fortunate that you did not turn on the SE180 as you might have fried it. When you charge your DAP and C9 from the same power brick simultaneously while connected via the interconnect, because the ground of the USB on the C9 is not isolated from the chassis, it will create a short circuit if connected as described.

Preventive future strategies
1) charge the SE180 and C9 alternatively but never at the same time from your 1 power charger. This should be ok while they are interconnected.
2) charge both at the same time while connected by the interconnect but not via the same charger. (Note- @Andykong and others have affirmed this should be ok, but I have had the protective circuit fire even when charging while using the same power strip, but different chargers. I myself do not advise this one but @Andykong can say more)
3) buy a spare C9 battery charging unit and a 4 spare 18650 batteries and charge them separately outside the C9. I have never heard anyone indicate that charging your DAP and batteries in the spare battery charger from tbe same power brick would creste a short circuit and damage your DAP but I still wouldn’t do it.
If you can afford to get a 2nd power charger, best is to charge your DAP and the C9 using separate chargers (if you need to charge them both at the same time).

My practice is to charge either C9 OR my DAP (I have Hiby R8) while they are connected but never both at the same time. Usually I am charging my C9 batteries in the spare charging unit on a charger connected in another part of the house, where I have no fear of a short circuit via the ground between the DAP and C9. Then I just swap the two units when 1 is fully discharged- and the other one is ready to go. This is likely over-kill but at least I know it is safe.


----------



## Doug2507

NJoyzAudio said:


> Infoseeker:
> 
> I find the C9 responds well to all input changes
> I've changed from the Copper cable that came stock and ran quite a bit of testing and ended up with an 8 wire mixed wire make up IC and it really changed the way the C9 sounds.
> ...


Which DAP are you using?


----------



## karloil (May 31, 2022)

Andykong said:


> As mentioned in my previous explanation, a short circuit happens when the C9 Audio Ground is connected to C9 charging ground through the source equipment.
> 
> C9 Audio Ground => Interconnect => Source Audio Ground = Source Charger Ground => C9 Charging Ground
> 
> If the DAP Audio ground and charged Ground are shared ground, it is shared no matter whether you power on or power off the DAP, with that, you'll trigger a protection mechanism even when you turned off the DAP.



Got it, thanks for again explaining @Andykong - thought this just closes the circuit when the devices are ON, but apparently, nope.



jlemaster1957 said:


> @Andykong will hopefully weigh in but as I understand what you did is a C9 charging no-no.. it is fortunate that you did not turn on the SE180 as you might have fried it. When you charge your DAP and C9 from the same power brick simultaneously while connected via the interconnect, because the ground of the USB on the C9 is not isolated from the chassis, it will create a short circuit if connected as described.
> 
> Preventive future strategies
> 1) charge the SE180 and C9 alternatively but never at the same time from your 1 power charger. This should be ok while they are interconnected.
> ...



This is the 1st time I forgot to leave the interconnect plugged in to both devices. Normally I charge both C9 and SE180 using the same charging plug BUT no interconnect. Yep, luckily the SE180 was turned OFF. I did a check the Gain of the SE180, thankfully, Gain settings still change normally.


----------



## AnalogandDigital

Another night with DX312
Line out into Cayin C9
Class A + NuTubes
64 Audio Fourté
Well ... this is why you pay that little extra for certain toys ... 🙏
.


----------



## AnalogandDigital

Creatures of the night including me 
Enjoying some music 
And I hope you as well ... 🙏
.


----------



## Tanalasta (Jun 4, 2022)

The Cayin C9 charge circuit will automatically adapt to the wattage it requires will it not?

I'm contemplating unplugging the 100W USB-C MacBook charger from my MacBook and charging the Cayin but not sure I should... (yes it works just fine but I made sure I switched it off well before it was at full charge just to be safe)

The Cayin C9 is up there with the very best portable headphone/IEM amplifiers I have ever heard. I very much enjoy it with the SP2000 -> C9 -> Oriolus Trailii combination.


----------



## alavenue

Hello, I'm selling a C9 if anyone is in the market 

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds...headphone-amplifier-cayin-leather-case.27362/

Such an amazing little amp, only wish it could push the susvara.


----------



## DaYooper

Tanalasta said:


> The Cayin C9 charge circuit will automatically adapt to the wattage it requires will it not?
> 
> I'm contemplating unplugging the 100W USB-C MacBook charger from my MacBook and charging the Cayin but not sure I should... (yes it works just fine but I made sure I switched it off well before it was at full charge just to be safe)
> 
> The Cayin C9 is up there with the very best portable headphone/IEM amplifiers I have ever heard. I very much enjoy it with the SP2000 -> C9 -> Oriolus Trailii combination.


I was scolded here for using an adapter like that to feed my C9. Actually though, I found that just using the SE line out from SP2k is really good with C9.


----------



## AnalogandDigital

Enjoying some music tonight 
Hope you as well ... 🤔
.


----------



## Tanalasta

DaYooper said:


> I was scolded here for using an adapter like that to feed my C9. Actually though, I found that just using the SE line out from SP2k is really good with C9.



I use the Effect Audio A&K balanced adapter to create a 4.4mm line out port. Works well. I also get good results with the Cayin C9 for colouring tonality on the Chord Hugo 2 (Using a PWA RCA adapter -> 4.4mm)


----------



## AnalogandDigital (Jun 14, 2022)

Gonna fire these babies up again
Love the sound
Mr. Lee definitely knew what he did and glad I can enjoy this pair
The Liquid Links Venom is a real nice cable
Great combination if you ask me
DX300 & C9 are doing overtime
Wondering how they will sound with my arriving N8II ... 🤔
.


----------



## gadus

I want to understand something, I see a lot of people here use c9 with iem, and I wonder if this is what c9 is for?
It's an amplifier with a lot of power, for me it easily moves the hd800, and iem's not need a lot of power and dap is definitely good enough for them,
Another question, about what volume do you put your dap on when you connect it to c9?
Thank you!


----------



## Tanalasta

You should be using the dedicated line out mode on the DAP.

It’s a little more complicated than ‘power’. However, the amp stage of most DAP’s have their limitations. Whilst the C9 doesn‘t quite compare to a $2000 desktop amp  - it is very accomplished for a portable model. The opportunity to tune the sound to the nuTube/solid state and class A/B as well as improvements in dynamics, soundstage are perhaps subtle for most. But at the top end (e.g. Trailli) it is noticeable. And a great way to be able to power both your IEM and a decent headphone on the go.


----------



## Spawn300Z

gadus said:


> I want to understand something, I see a lot of people here use c9 with iem, and I wonder if this is what c9 is for?
> It's an amplifier with a lot of power, for me it easily moves the hd800, and iem's not need a lot of power and dap is definitely good enough for them,
> Another question, about what volume do you put your dap on when you connect it to c9?
> Thank you!


I use it to power my Diana V2’s when traveling


----------



## Slim1970

gadus said:


> I want to understand something, I see a lot of people here use c9 with iem, and I wonder if this is what c9 is for?
> It's an amplifier with a lot of power, for me it easily moves the hd800, and iem's not need a lot of power and dap is definitely good enough for them,
> Another question, about what volume do you put your dap on when you connect it to c9?
> Thank you!


I use my C9 for IEM’s and full sized headphones. It works great powering both.


----------



## jlemaster1957 (Jun 15, 2022)

gadus said:


> I want to understand something, I see a lot of people here use c9 with iem, and I wonder if this is what c9 is for?
> It's an amplifier with a lot of power, for me it easily moves the hd800, and iem's not need a lot of power and dap is definitely good enough for them,
> Another question, about what volume do you put your dap on when you connect it to c9?
> Thank you!


When you connect from dedicated line out mode, C9 controls volume. In Pre-Amp mode, your DAP controls volume, so pls start with volume turned down on your DAP and then adjust to a comfortable volume. Otherwise if you have turned up volume too high on your DAP, when sound kicks in you may suddenly damage your hearing.

In terms of whether sound differences on DAP + C9 vs DAP alone are subtle, pls see head-fi detailed reviews Here. As a C9 owner IMHO it is “as subtle as a fine wine, and as thoroughly delicious”.


----------



## Kevxl

gadus said:


> I want to understand something, I see a lot of people here use c9 with iem, and I wonder if this is what c9 is for?
> It's an amplifier with a lot of power, for me it easily moves the hd800, and iem's not need a lot of power and dap is definitely good enough for them,
> Another question, about what volume do you put your dap on when you connect it to c9?
> Thank you!


I bought the C9 for my Hugo2+EE Odin under the impression that this is an IEM amp that has the potential to drive full size cans. After I got it, I found out that I can’t use the 3v LO mode on Hugo2 since it’s too hot and I can’t turn the volume on C9 past 9 o’clock for the Odin. My only other IEM is a Solaris SE which is more sensitive so I didn’t even try that on LO. At the end, for my IEM listing, I just fix C9’s volume at 12 o’clock and using Hugo2’s volume ball to adjust, which it could barely pass 20%(red). 

IMHO, adding this amp improve the Odin somewhat, mainly the soundstage and placement but not much else over the Hugo2. Surprisingly, it made a big improvement on the Solaris SE, made everything better all around. I think I read somewhere that the C9 has the ability to make mid tier IEM sing like a TOTL. Maybe this is the effect people are talking about?

It’s a much more straightforward story on my headphones. Hugo2’s LO or C9’s Pre mode all work beautifully and even has slightly different flavor in sound to my ear. It made my LCD4z more lively, spacious with better bass. A meatier sound overall. It can even drive the Diana TC to an enjoyable level. Not FULL potential, it’s not that magical, but it definitely can offer some enjoyable listings over a short trip.

Overall, very versatile and capable amp.


----------



## AnalogandDigital (Jun 16, 2022)

Another night
Makes listening to only more music
Just did the shot here for Tanerélle as you can see
Matching colors ... 😉
.


----------



## jlemaster1957 (Jun 16, 2022)

Kevxl said:


> I bought the C9 for my Hugo2+EE Odin under the impression that this is an IEM amp that has the potential to drive full size cans. After I got it, I found out that I can’t use the 3v LO mode on Hugo2 since it’s too hot and I can’t turn the volume on C9 past 9 o’clock for the Odin. My only other IEM is a Solaris SE which is more sensitive so I didn’t even try that on LO. At the end, for my IEM listing, I just fix C9’s volume at 12 o’clock and using Hugo2’s volume ball to adjust, which it could barely pass 20%(red).
> 
> IMHO, adding this amp improve the Odin somewhat, mainly the soundstage and placement but not much else over the Hugo2. Surprisingly, it made a big improvement on the Solaris SE, made everything better all around. I think I read somewhere that the C9 has the ability to make mid tier IEM sing like a TOTL. Maybe this is the effect people are talking about?
> 
> ...


This is an interesting phenomenon- certainly on LO from R8 I am experiencing no volume problems of this nature. At one point, I connected IFI micro iDSD to C9 via single ended RCA LO and found that on Turbo mode I was experiencing clipping but when I turned Turbo off and decreased IEmatch to ‘high sensitivity’ it all resolved. Could this be a gain issue on the Hugo2 side?


----------



## Kevxl

jlemaster1957 said:


> This is an interesting phenomenon- certainly on LO from R8 I am experiencing no volume problems of this nature. At one point, I connected IFI micro iDSD to C9 via single ended RCA LO and found that on Turbo mode I was experiencing clipping but when I turned Turbo off and decreased IEmatch to ‘high sensitivity’ it all resolved. Could this be a gain issue on the Hugo2 side?


Yeah, that’s what I thought as well. It probably has something to do with the Hugo2. It does have some power reserve for its size compare to most DAPs. It’s not famous for its customizability though, it is what it is, I just have to work around it’s quirks.

No complaining. It’s always good to have options and in my eye, this is where the C9’s strength is at. I could bring the H2+C9 and a great pair of headphones to a short trip, or, the same rig with an IEM back in the office. I just plug H2 to its charger and C9 to a power bank with 2.1A output. They can last me a whole workday (they do get pretty hot to the touch). Desktop level performance anywhere you go.


----------



## qua2k

Kevxl said:


> They can last me a whole workday (they do get pretty hot to the touch). Desktop level performance anywhere you go.


I bought a cheap 60mm Noctua fan and a 3pin->usb cord for the C9 heat. I have it laying behind the C9, works pretty well.


----------



## Spawn300Z

This is how I use my Cayin C9.


----------



## AnalogandDigital (Jun 16, 2022)

One of the 3 new toys I just picked up
But only one at a time
His buddy C9 will be happy ...
.


----------



## jmills8

qua2k said:


> I bought a cheap 60mm Noctua fan and a 3pin->usb cord for the C9 heat. I have it laying behind the C9, works pretty well.


Ok , but now it will sound worse , but atleast its not hot.


----------



## jlemaster1957

Kevxl said:


> Yeah, that’s what I thought as well. It probably has something to do with the Hugo2. It does have some power reserve for its size compare to most DAPs. It’s not famous for its customizability though, it is what it is, I just have to work around it’s quirks.
> 
> No complaining. It’s always good to have options and in my eye, this is where the C9’s strength is at. I could bring the H2+C9 and a great pair of headphones to a short trip, or, the same rig with an IEM back in the office. I just plug H2 to its charger and C9 to a power bank with 2.1A output. They can last me a whole workday (they do get pretty hot to the touch). Desktop level performance anywhere you go.


I hadn’t noticed so much of a heat problem but I’ve opted not to charge my C9 while playing, which for me was a source of a lot of heat. I have the extra C9 battery charger unit and a set of 18650 Orbtronics and charge them or the original Sony batteries externally.

My hat is off to you for your commitment to SQ if you take the whole lot with you when you travel.  I only traveled once with the whole kit and that was by car, so I only had to carry it all from the car into the hotel. Even though I could pack it all in my carry on if I fly, and have good protective cases for it and the DAP, it’d be pretty heavy to cart around. Most recently I’ve been taking my Cayin RU-6 with me, and just plug it into my iPhone and keep that charged with a MagSafe wireless charger. It’s not as delicious sonically as the DAP + C9 combo but has a 4.4 mm balanced port and is way easier to carry. Different strokes…


----------



## Infoseeker

The Cayin C9 has user replaceable batteries. So it's nice not needing to baby it. Let the candle burn twice as bright!


----------



## lil BANE

Spawn300Z said:


> This is how I use my Cayin C9.


Go Pats!


----------



## Andykong

gadus said:


> I want to understand something, I see a lot of people here use c9 with iem, and I wonder if this is what c9 is for?
> It's an amplifier with a lot of power, for me it easily moves the hd800, and iem's not need a lot of power and dap is definitely good enough for them,
> Another question, about what volume do you put your dap on when you connect it to c9?
> Thank you!



Why do we use high-power amplifier for IEM? check *HERE*.

Regarding volume setting, maybe you should understand the concept behind line out, check *HERE*.

By the way, we have a *FAQ and Resources *section, go to the opening post on page 1 and scroll all the way down to the end of the opening post.


----------



## Andykong

Tanalasta said:


> The Cayin C9 charge circuit will automatically adapt to the wattage it requires will it not?
> 
> I'm contemplating unplugging the 100W USB-C MacBook charger from my MacBook and charging the Cayin but not sure I should... (yes it works just fine but I made sure I switched it off well before it was at full charge just to be safe)
> 
> The Cayin C9 is up there with the very best portable headphone/IEM amplifiers I have ever heard. I very much enjoy it with the SP2000 -> C9 -> Oriolus Trailii combination.



I believe the 100W USB-C MacBook charger is PD level 2 compatible, please verify this with the documentation of your MacBook charger.  If this is the case, it works with Cayin C9 alright.


----------



## Xinlisupreme (Jun 17, 2022)

Andykong said:


> Why do we use high-power amplifier for IEM? check *HERE*.
> 
> Regarding volume setting, maybe you should understand the concept behind line out, check *HERE*.
> 
> By the way, we have a *FAQ and Resources *section, go to the opening post on page 1 and scroll all the way down to the end of the opening post.


Thank you @Andykong !
I plug RS6 in LO to C9 but recently I got N6ii Ti R01.
Can I plug it using C9 Preamp in mode?
Wich gain should I set on N6ii Ti?


----------



## Xinlisupreme

Look like works fine with N6ii mid gain connected to C9 Line IN


----------



## AnalogandDigital

Saturday night 
Listening to some music 
Awesome combination I have to say 
Next step with my C9
Took me a long time to get this together ... 
.


----------



## AnalogandDigital

This baby arrived last week but gonna test drive it with the Fourté first 
I'll add the C9 later 
What's your personal experience with the PW Audio First Times ... ?
.


----------



## AnalogandDigital

Just another night 
Next step will be adding my C9
Try this song 
Buddy just recommended it
Pluratone - The Night Won't Scare me 
.


----------



## Andykong

Xinlisupreme said:


> Thank you @Andykong !
> I plug RS6 in LO to C9 but recently I got N6ii Ti R01.
> Can I plug it using C9 Preamp in mode?
> Wich gain should I set on N6ii Ti?





Xinlisupreme said:


> Look like works fine with N6ii mid gain connected to C9 Line IN



R01 and C9 work fine in pre-amp mode.  Starting with low gain, since the C9 carries out all the heavy lifting, the low gain should offer all the dynamic and handling at the lowest distortion and noise.


----------



## gadus

I have a layman's question,
When is the c9 charging complete? When the fourth light is no longer flashing?
How long does it take to charge it? For me it takes around 5 hours or more, does that make sense?
Last question: How long do you use it until the battery runs out?
Thanks !!


----------



## gordec

Thinking about getting C9 to play with. I can run it with Shanling M9 and use the "line out" with 4.4mm interconnect. However, it'd be double amping. Has anyone able to find a solution to go from a balanced desktop DAC to the C9? You will need dual female XLR to single 4.4mm male to feed into C9. I have never seen an adapter like that.


----------



## jmills8

gordec said:


> Thinking about getting C9 to play with. I can run it with Shanling M9 and use the "line out" with 4.4mm interconnect. However, it'd be double amping. Has anyone able to find a solution to go from a balanced desktop DAC to the C9? You will need dual female XLR to single 4.4mm male to feed into C9. I have never seen an adapter like that.


But double is better than single. Wife + GF better than wife and beer.


----------



## xenithon

gordec said:


> Thinking about getting C9 to play with. I can run it with Shanling M9 and use the "line out" with 4.4mm interconnect. However, it'd be double amping. Has anyone able to find a solution to go from a balanced desktop DAC to the C9? You will need dual female XLR to single 4.4mm male to feed into C9. I have never seen an adapter like that.


You should be able to still use the 4.4mm interconnect and run the C9 in preamp mode. That way the C9 is always running at full power (essentially acting as a power amp) and volume is controlled via the M9.


----------



## gordec (Jun 24, 2022)

xenithon said:


> You should be able to still use the 4.4mm interconnect and run the C9 in preamp mode. That way the C9 is always running at full power (essentially acting as a power amp) and volume is controlled via the M9.


Are you doing that with the R8? Looks like R8 has dedicated LO.


----------



## dadracer2

gordec said:


> Thinking about getting C9 to play with. I can run it with Shanling M9 and use the "line out" with 4.4mm interconnect. However, it'd be double amping. Has anyone able to find a solution to go from a balanced desktop DAC to the C9? You will need dual female XLR to single 4.4mm male to feed into C9. I have never seen an adapter like that.


No, I don't think you are double amping. If you use a line out. It would be if you used the phones output. If I use my C9 with line out from my N6ii then the volume control is only on the C9.


----------



## karloil (Jun 24, 2022)

gordec said:


> Thinking about getting C9 to play with. I can run it with Shanling M9 and use the "line out" with 4.4mm interconnect. However, it'd be double amping. Has anyone able to find a solution to go from a balanced desktop DAC to the C9? You will need dual female XLR to single 4.4mm male to feed into C9. I have never seen an adapter like that.



It won't be double amping IF you set the M9 to Line Out. (11:45 👇🏼)


----------



## Andykong

gordec said:


> Thinking about getting C9 to play with. I can run it with Shanling M9 and use the "line out" with 4.4mm interconnect. However, it'd be double amping. Has anyone able to find a solution to go from a balanced desktop DAC to the C9? You will need dual female XLR to single 4.4mm male to feed into C9. I have never seen an adapter like that.



Yes, you need something like *THIS* to connect C9 to a desktop DAC.

I am not familiar with Shanling M9, does it has a variable line out? or the line out is shared the circuit with phone out?  If later, you can also try to connect M9 to C9 as pre-amp input.


----------



## Andykong

gadus said:


> I have a layman's question,
> When is the c9 charging complete? When the fourth light is no longer flashing?
> How long does it take to charge it? For me it takes around 5 hours or more, does that make sense?
> Last question: How long do you use it until the battery runs out?
> Thanks !!








The charging and duration information of C9 product specification is pretty accurate, several users have reported similar figures.  If you are using a standard 5V2A USB charging and takes around 5 hours or more to completely charge up the batteries, that should be considered normal.  You can speed up your charging if you use a QC3.0 charger, such as *THIS *one.

C9 will stop charging when the battery is full, that's when the fourth LED is no longer flashing. If you want to keep your Lithium battery in good condition and last longer, you can stop charging when the fourth LED is flashing for 20-30 minutes, roughly.


----------



## jlemaster1957

gordec said:


> Thinking about getting C9 to play with. I can run it with Shanling M9 and use the "line out" with 4.4mm interconnect. However, it'd be double amping. Has anyone able to find a solution to go from a balanced desktop DAC to the C9? You will need dual female XLR to single 4.4mm male to feed into C9. I have never seen an adapter like that.


I have connected IFI micro iDSD to C9 by R & L RCA out of iDSD —> single ended 3.5 mm into C9 so certainly dual XLR to 4.4 mm as @Andykong suggests should work. My concern would be the possibility of short circuit across this interconnect between C9 and a POWERED desktop amp, invoking C9 protective mode —though as long as you don’t simultaneously charge C9 via USB I guess you may be alright. When I connected C9 to iDSD I made sure iDSD was operating via its battery (though I THINK the audio path and the battery charging circuits in the iDSD are isolated) and I never tried to charge C9 via USB at the same time. I had no problem even with the audio signal coming into iDSD from a powered streamer (Sonore MicroRendu) via USB.


----------



## gordec

Andykong said:


> Yes, you need something like *THIS* to connect C9 to a desktop DAC.
> 
> I am not familiar with Shanling M9, does it has a variable line out? or the line out is shared the circuit with phone out?  If later, you can also try to connect M9 to C9 as pre-amp input.


I saw this cable. I don't think it works. Most desktop DACs have male XLR connector. You need female to XLR to 4.4mm adapter to go into the C9.


----------



## AnalogandDigital (Jun 29, 2022)

Well they arrived
Hopefully this combination keeps me quiet for a while
Next I'll add the C9 ... 👌
.


----------



## Doug2507

jmills8 said:


> But double is better than single. Wife + GF better than wife and beer.


I'd trade them both for the beer!


----------



## McCol

@Andykong or @CayinSupport .....or anybody else that can help.

Ok probably really silly question time but I'm going to ask anyway

Can I use the pre-amp option when pairing with my N8ii?  Is there any advantage of using pre amp over normal connection method?


----------



## Xinlisupreme

McCol said:


> @Andykong or @CayinSupport .....or anybody else that can help.
> 
> Ok probably really silly question time but I'm going to ask anyway
> 
> Can I use the pre-amp option when pairing with my N8ii?  Is there any advantage of using pre amp over normal connection method?


@McCol Take a look here https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...ss-a-ab-portable-headamp.943135/post-16164731


----------



## Andykong

McCol said:


> @Andykong or @CayinSupport .....or anybody else that can help.
> 
> Ok probably really silly question time but I'm going to ask anyway
> 
> Can I use the pre-amp option when pairing with my N8ii?  Is there any advantage of using pre amp over normal connection method?



Yes, you can use Pre-amp input to connect N8ii to C9.  Most users prefer line input mode with high-quality DAP that offers properly implemented line out, there are users who prefer pre-amp input mode, so I think this is worth trying definitely.  You never know your preference until you try it out in person.

Please follow the instruction in C9 User Guide when you use Pre-amp input mode for the first time.


----------



## McCol

@Andykong - thanks for the quick response, I will try both methods

@Xinlisupreme - thanks for the link to that post, very helpful


----------



## Doug2507

McCol said:


> @Andykong - thanks for the quick response, I will try both methods
> 
> @Xinlisupreme - thanks for the link to that post, very helpful


Let me know what you think when C9 is added into the mix with N8ii....


----------



## Xinlisupreme

Doug2507 said:


> Let me know what you think when C9 is added into the mix with N8ii....


@F700 can tell you it also.
Would be interesting test N8ii with LO and in preamp mode also connected to C9 OFC


----------



## Doug2507

Xinlisupreme said:


> @F700 can tell you it also.
> Would be interesting test N8ii with LO and in preamp mode also connected to C9 OFC


Indeed. Already familiar with his thoughts, good to have more though as it's mixed opinion either side of a very fine line.


----------



## AnalogandDigital

Wednesday night 
And here are the stars 
Next with C9 added ...
.


----------



## xenithon

AnalogandDigital said:


> Wednesday night
> And here are the stars
> Next with C9 added ...
> .


I’d imagine the Fourté benefits from tube mode.


----------



## AnalogandDigital (Jul 14, 2022)

xenithon said:


> I’d imagine the Fourté benefits from tube mode.


Mostly I just go non NuTube and Class A
But the Class A/B and P+ and NuTube is definitely awesome
You should try it if you have the opportunity ...
Here you see it 
Now not a sharp pic since I still have to install the glass protector


----------



## xenithon

AnalogandDigital said:


> Mostly I just go non NuTube and Class A
> But the Class A/B and P+ and NuTube is definitely awesome
> You should try it if you have the opportunity ...
> Here you see it
> Now not a sharp pic since I still have to install the glass protector


Ahhh, sorry, I was referring to when you add the C9 to the chain ☺️


----------



## AnalogandDigital

xenithon said:


> Ahhh, sorry, I was referring to when you add the C9 to the chain ☺️


Haven't tried it with the C9 yet 
That's probably for tomorrow


----------



## bflat

Hi All,

After spending a couple hours reading through old threads I have a question regarding how to burn in (not debating whether I should or not). If I want to burn in a 100 hrs or so, there doesn't seem to be a way to do this non stop. Does anyone have any tips to minimize the amount of battery swapping I need to do?

Also if I am going to do burn in, it seems there are 4 modes I need to run:
1) Class A
2) Class A/B
3) Tube mode A
4) Tube mode A/B

Assuming the tubes are used in the power stage, then I believe I can just run 2 scenarios to cover all 4 modes:

1) Class A SS
2) Clas A/B Tube (less power than A to minimize battery swap)

Is this correct? Assuming the output stage is always SS, this will result in output stage getting 2X burn in.

Thanks


----------



## karloil

bflat said:


> Hi All,
> 
> After spending a couple hours reading through old threads I have a question regarding how to burn in (not debating whether I should or not). If I want to burn in a 100 hrs or so, there doesn't seem to be a way to do this non stop. Does anyone have any tips to minimize the amount of battery swapping I need to do?
> 
> ...



Andy left a link in 1st post regarding burn-in settings.


----------



## bflat

karloil said:


> Andy left a link in 1st post regarding burn-in settings.


Thanks! I did see that link but it went to a post that didn't say anything about burn in, but I now scrolled down and it's near the bottom.


----------



## Marat Sar (Jul 18, 2022)

All right. After a year of wrangling around battery export regulations -- battery rolling is hard due to laws prohibiting sending batteries across borders -- I've been able to secure four of these bad boys:

https://www.orbtronic.com/3500mah-18650-imr-battery-high-drain-rechargeable-orbtronic-li-ion

Think it was Twister6 (correct me if I'm wrong) who did a rundown of 5 different batteries for the c9, and their sound changes. Most muddied the sound and added bass, making the c9 sound considerably worse. These Orbtronics, he said, provide a blacker background.

I can concur -- that is exactly what they do. They also appear to lessen bass a tiny bit. There is added clarity across the whole spectrum due to a more silent background, and it's most apparent in the upper mids. Upper mids get a small boost for my years. Which lessens attention on bass. There's a tug of war between that upper mid / mid bass in tuning. You add bass you need to add upper mids, otherwise it becomes muddy. These Orbtronics seem to do something to that effect, hard to say without measurement. Either they lessen bass, or increase upper mids, or do both -- the effect is extra clarity and reigning in the c9's bass.

Going back to the stock green-boys, the bass is boomier. The sound is more liquid and smooth due to this, but detail perception suffers, and the sound is more fatiguing. I haven't gotten around to listening to a lot of material (5 hours in) but this fits me well. For the last year, I've been on a quest to make my Trailli less fatiguing out of the c9 -- that fatigue comes from the bass. The sheer volume of low frequency air is too much for me coming from u8t with m15 modules. The reduction of bass is so noticeable with the Orbtronics that I've gone and switched the sp2000s digital filter from Super Slow Roll-Off (the trebbliest) to Short Delay Sharp Roll-Off (default and bassiest), and even find myself using the tube option with the c9. Which I never did with the stocks. Just muddied the sound too much. With these Orbtronics -- when listening to very clear and dry albums like, say, Depeche Mode's Playing The Angel -- I find the added tube warmth adds some charm. Without pouring too much jam.

So, get them if you can. It's by no way a BIG difference. We're talking 3-5% improvement to an aspect of the total sound of the chain. But the change is definitely bigger than digital filters. I only differentiate between digital filters if they're on different ends of the scale. They're a binary for me. More treble / more bass. Others can't hear any difference in filters. If you're one of those people -- or don't have very sensitive IEMs -- chances are the Orbtronics won't change anything. If you're sensitive to stuff like this and would like

1. A 5% blacker background
2. A tiny bit of upper mid boost
3. A bit of bass reduction

Then these are a (subtle) tool for that job.

Currently only available in the US and Canada, though 

Looking forward to other battery experiments from users --.20 bucks to improve the sound of a 2000 buck device by 5% is a good deal for me!


----------



## jlemaster1957

Marat Sar said:


> All right. After a year of wrangling around battery export regulations -- battery rolling is hard due to laws prohibiting sending batteries across borders -- I've been able to secure four of these bad boys:
> 
> https://www.orbtronic.com/3500mah-18650-imr-battery-high-drain-rechargeable-orbtronic-li-ion
> 
> ...


Hi
I’ve got both sets (Sonys and Orbtronics) and alternate between the two but have never done a true A/B listening session, which now you are prompting me to do. I do like the Orbtronics a lot - Not yet having A:Bd I agree that the sonic differences are pretty subtle, certainly I don’t notice anything OBVIOUSLY when I switch between the stock Sonys and the Orbtronics. One thing I will absolutely assert- they are certainly in no way INFERIOR to the Sonys sonically, and they are a bit less expensive - in the US at least.  Btw the reviewer who mentioned the sonic quality of the Orbtronics earlier in the thread was @Whitigir .

One small odd thing about the Orbtronics— the battery charge level lights that stay lit even when the C9 is turned off (which bugs me as it runs the batteries down— does this happen to anybody else?).


----------



## bflat

jlemaster1957 said:


> One small odd thing about the Orbtronics— the battery charge level lights that stay lit even when the C9 is turned off (which bugs me as it runs the batteries down— does this happen to anybody else?).


I have tried the Orbtronics using the built in battery tray and a separate battery charger and the lights do not stay on when powered down. 

However, I do have a couple observations:

1) If I remove the batteries so I can use a regular charger, the C9 battery tray goes into protection mode after I reinstall the fully charged batteries. This is easy reset by plugging in power to the battery tray for about 10 sec.

2) The discharge indication doesn't appear to be linear. It takes a lot longer to consume the first 2 LED indicators versus the last 2. I'm guessing this is normal because the total play time is pretty much on spec.


----------



## reuben3

Hi @qua2k   I have a question regarding your C9 setup, do you mind helping?

Funnily looks like we are quite similar, I too have the LPGT+C9. I never tried the computer usb/dac function until moments ago, and the sound is unlistenable, sharp and loud! I immediately disconnected everything just to prevent any damage.

So it's really confusing as you know LPGT have both LO/PO option and the C9 has Line/Pre. So I tried 2 combinations:

1. LPGT PO (Volume 0) Computer/DAC + C9 Pre = There wasn't any sound when I increase the LPTG volume it says "Mute" next to the volume number. So I disconnected everything.

2. LPGT LO Computer/DAC + C9 Line (Volume 0) = There wasn't any sound but to double check I was in LO mode I twisted the LPGT volume and expectedly it doesn't have volume control. So I increased the volume via the C9 volume pot but still no sound. I only managed to get sound if I increased the volume via my Mac computer which resulted in a very sharp and unrefined sound. 

So which the correct way if I want to use it on my Mac? Any help is much appreciated!


----------



## qua2k (Jul 20, 2022)

reuben3 said:


> Hi @qua2k   I have a question regarding your C9 setup, do you mind helping?
> 
> Funnily looks like we are quite similar, I too have the LPGT+C9. I never tried the computer usb/dac function until moments ago, and the sound is unlistenable, sharp and loud! I immediately disconnected everything just to prevent any damage.
> 
> ...


I have mine with the following configuration,

Windows computer, using a USB-A to USB-C cable capable of both charging and transferring files. LPGT in PO (when USB cable is connected, LPGT asks for what option, choose Computer USB/DAC). The C9 I have in Line mode. I have had no issues with this combination. Volume is controllable at all three steps as well, Computer, LPGT, C9 wheel, I have not had or seen the 'Mute' issue you had in #1. I always keep the C9 at lowest volume when changing any kind of input or output.

I will say I have no experience with Macs. I have only had success with 2 work Windows machines (either Win 10 or Win 11) and my home Windows laptop (Win 10). I don't see how it wouldn't work through a Mac.


----------



## reuben3 (Jul 20, 2022)

qua2k said:


> I have mine with the following configuration,
> 
> Windows computer, using a USB-A to USB-C cable capable of both charging and transferring files. LPGT in PO (when USB cable is connected, LPGT asks for what option, choose Computer USB/DAC). The C9 I have in Line mode. I have had no issues with this combination. Volume is controllable at all three steps as well, Computer, LPGT, C9 wheel, I have not had or seen the 'Mute' issue you had in #1. I always keep the C9 at lowest volume when changing any kind of input or output.
> 
> I will say I have no experience with Macs. I have only had success with 2 work Windows machines (either Win 10 or Win 11) and my home Windows laptop (Win 10). I don't see how it wouldn't work through a Mac.


Ah thanks! So if the LPGT is using PO mode, shouldn't the C9 be in Pre mode? I read several posts on DAPS with PO only, the C9 should be set to Pre mode?

I'm a little confused how C9's pre mode functions. Does it just maintain a fixed level of amplication so we can control the volume through the DAP? If so, how does it differ to using C9 in line mode and say setting the volume pot to the middle, then use the DAP's PO to control the volume?


----------



## Andykong

bflat said:


> I have tried the Orbtronics using the built in battery tray and a separate battery charger and the lights do not stay on when powered down.
> 
> However, I do have a couple observations:
> 
> ...



Both consider normal.  The C9 battery module will enter protected mode when you remove the battery from the module, to resume, you need to connect the battery module to a USB charger and charge it for a very short moment.



jlemaster1957 said:


> Hi
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



This is odd.  Did the light stay on after a while, say 20 minutes? Try taking the battery module out, remove the batteries and reinstall them back to the battery module (this will put the battery module into sleep mode), and connect to charge for a few seconds to wake up the module, then remove the charger and power of your C9, see if the LED light is still on?


----------



## Andykong

reuben3 said:


> Ah thanks! So if the LPGT is using PO mode, shouldn't the C9 be in Pre mode? I read several posts on DAPS with PO only, the C9 should be set to Pre mode?
> 
> I'm a little confused how C9's pre mode functions. Does it just maintain a fixed level of amplication so we can control the volume through the DAP? If so, how does it differ to using C9 in line mode and say setting the volume pot to the middle, then use the DAP's PO to control the volume?



When you use C9 in Pre-amp mode, your DAP sound signature is more dominating because you have included the headphone amplification circuit of your DAP in the signal path.  When you connect your DAP to C9 in line input mode, the sound signature of C9 become more "obvious" because you have bypassed the phone amp. circuit - if your DAP line out is a true line out that by pass the headphone output circuit.


----------



## reuben3

Andykong said:


> When you use C9 in Pre-amp mode, your DAP sound signature is more dominating because you have included the headphone amplification circuit of your DAP in the signal path. When you connect your DAP to C9 in line input mode, the sound signature of C9 become more "obvious" because you have bypassed the phone amp. circuit - if your DAP line out is a true line out that by pass the headphone output circuit.


Thanks @Andykong

Do you mind explaining the difference if I use the DAP's PO but I switch between C9's Pre and Line mode?

I assume both would have the DAP's sound signature more dominating, but what other differences should I expect?


----------



## Nostoi

On the topic of LO vs PO, I've started using PO with my Hugo2Go, and the results are simply quite staggering. LO is already very good, but on PO you get an extremely taut presentation, with excellent definition and clarity. Everything feels more dynamic and more authoritative. Controlling the volume from the Hugo 2 via the remote also allows for a very exact control over output rather than using the C9's (also excellent) volume control.  Incidentally, I also find using PO with Mojo 2 works decidedly better than LO. If you have either of these sources, I recommend giving it a go.


----------



## reuben3 (Jul 21, 2022)

Nostoi said:


> If you have either of these sources, I recommend giving it a go.


I agree that PO will let the source sound signature stand out more.

This is why I use the LPGT on PO, the nuances, the delicate contrasts, all comeback with delight!

I don't have the mojo or Hugo but have the Qutest which isn't suitable for the C9. I love the Chord sound and I do believe you the intricate details can be lost with the C9 Line mode.

I'm looking for other people's experience that use PO exclusively but switch between line and pre mode. I notice a difference, an even more natural sound on pre mode but I'm not experienced to explain it in detail.


----------



## Nostoi

reuben3 said:


> I agree that PO will let the source sound signature stand out more.
> 
> This is why I use the LPGT on PO, the nuances, the delicate contrasts, all comeback with delight!
> 
> ...


Qutest actually works really with C9 - get a nice RCA to 3.5mm cable (I use Nordost Heimdall) and you'll see what I mean. Obviously, it's only LO in this mode, but still - works very well.

Yup, in all my experience - whether it was N6ii/A02 or FiiO M17 - I find the PO generally sounds better for one reason or another.

As an aside, I know the 3 second PO activation is there as a safety measure on the C9, but I wish I could leave it on all the time without having to do this, as it's become my default setting.


----------



## xenithon

mmoderni said:


> C9 pre amp mode bypass all of its gain circuit, so NEED to be used with a variable input (usually PO).
> But if LO is variable too, then should work fine.





jlemaster1957 said:


> Agree whenever I use pre-amp on the C9 I have used PO not LO from the R8, and turned volume in R8 to lowest setting then adjusted to comfortable level.



Hiya. Wanted to check if you’ve tried the R8 to C9 yet via the (variable) LO, and if you heard any difference versus the PO?


----------



## Andykong

reuben3 said:


> Thanks @Andykong
> 
> Do you mind explaining the difference if I use the DAP's PO but I switch between C9's Pre and Line mode?
> 
> I assume both would have the DAP's sound signature more dominating, but what other differences should I expect?



First of all, if you operate carefully, these two combinations are technically feasible, you should be able to hear the difference with your music/IEM, which probably works better.

When you connect the DAP phone out to C9 in both preamp and line input mode, the latter probably will have a slightly higher noise level, or the pre-amp input mode will have better 3D and clarity (because of less noise).  On the other hand, if you listen to these two modes for a long time, say 1 hour, you probably will feel involving with pre-amp input but start to feel fatigued with phone out + line input mode.


----------



## xenithon

Andykong said:


> When you connect the DAP phone out to C9 in both preamp and line input mode, the latter probably will have a slightly higher noise level, or the pre-amp input mode will have better 3D and clarity


Interestingly I just happened to try this out earlier - connecting PO in pre mode as opposed to LO in line mode. And the main difference that stood out was a blacker background. 

Details were still there but a little more holographic. Overall sound was a little darker though too - maybe a case of hearing more of the DAP’s inherent character, not sure. 

One other thing I noticed - battery of the C9 seemed to drain a lot quicker (did on me halfway through my session). Is that because in pre mode it’s essentially always running at full power?


----------



## jlemaster1957 (Jul 21, 2022)

xenithon said:


> Hiya. Wanted to check if you’ve tried the R8 to C9 yet via the (variable) LO, and if you heard any difference versus the PO?


Yes - absolutely. I use R8 with Turbo=on PO —> C9 pre- mode as my default for Legend X (interestingly my fav mode on C9 in that case is AB SS with tubes off, as this provides the most highly impactful yet textured, dynamic sub-bass) Disclosure - I also use Eletech Socrates cable on LX , I am not sure how this performance would differ with stock Ares II. I have tried across several sets (Monarch Mk2, U12T) and find the improvement in bass texture across them all. Sublime!

Note this does not work the best for all IEMS- I found Final A4000 did not scale up well in this way (but it is a very much down-market IEM- it seems this overdrives the 4000, making the treble too elevated and sibilant. I might play around in future with MSEB on tbe R8 that might improve the Fr performance for that one


----------



## jlemaster1957

Andykong said:


> This is odd.  Did the light stay on after a while, say 20 minutes? Try taking the battery module out, remove the batteries and reinstall them back to the battery module (this will put the battery module into sleep mode), and connect to charge for a few seconds to wake up the module, then remove the charger and power of your C9, see if the LED light is still on?


It does not stay on the whole time, maybe it is only 20 min. Certainly if I use for a few hours and charge runs down to 2 lights, the lights turn off when the unit is off. I want to add that  I have not noticed any difference or defect in function sonically or otherwise when the lights were still on- I will try what you suggest @Andykong and update this.


----------



## xenithon (Jul 22, 2022)

Andykong said:


> When you connect the DAP phone out to C9 in both preamp and line input mode, the latter probably will have a slightly higher noise level, or the pre-amp input mode will have better 3D and clarity (because of less noise).



Thanks for the explanation @Andykong . I’m quite astonished at the differences between using the C9 in line vs pre mode, preferring the latter by a significant margin. 

Would you expect differences between using the DAP’s PO vs LO if using the C9 in pre mode? Granted, this would only be applicable to DAPs like the R8 which have variable LO.


----------



## reuben3

Andykong said:


> When you connect the DAP phone out to C9 in both preamp and line input mode, the latter probably will have a slightly higher noise level, or the pre-amp input mode will have better 3D and clarity (because of less noise). On the other hand, if you listen to these two modes for a long time, say 1 hour, you probably will feel involving with pre-amp input but start to feel fatigued with phone out + line input mode.



Thanks Andy! Very true indeed, I get the most DAP character from PO and C9 in Pre mode. Also can confirm the Line mode is a lot less clean if running PO.


----------



## jlemaster1957 (Jul 23, 2022)

reuben3 said:


> Thanks Andy! Very true indeed, I get the most DAP character from PO and C9 in Pre mode. Also can confirm the Line mode is a lot less clean if running PO.


Agree- the reason is the extra power (voltage)  output from C9 via pre-mode - pls see @Andykong ‘s excellent (thorough) description of the line in and pre-amp functions from earlier in the thread, link is here.


----------



## reuben3

I noticed a lot RF interference when using C9 tube mode and connected to my computer as the source. I don't know much about electronics, I could literally hear my local radio station plus it's very noisy but I get completely clean sound when I put it into SS mode. I don't think it's the C9's fault, but maybe it's the USB cable?


----------



## jlemaster1957

reuben3 said:


> I noticed a lot RF interference when using C9 tube mode and connected to my computer as the source. I don't know much about electronics, I could literally hear my local radio station plus it's very noisy but I get completely clean sound when I put it into SS mode. I don't think it's the C9's fault, but maybe it's the USB cable?


Since C9 had no USB inputs, how are you connecting it from your computer?


----------



## reuben3

jlemaster1957 said:


> Since C9 had no USB inputs, how are you connecting it from your computer?


Ah, sorry for lack for explanation Mac > USB > DAP > 4.4 PO > C9 Line/Pre > Tube I get RF interference, SS it's clean


----------



## jlemaster1957

reuben3 said:


> Ah, sorry for lack for explanation Mac > USB > DAP > 4.4 PO > C9 Line/Pre > Tube I get RF interference, SS it's clean


And DAP is LGPT, correct? I have noted that if I have any device that is ‘live wired’ (anything other than battery operated devices in the chain) there is a lot more noise at the end of the chain (though for me only when music is not playing- during music playback the sound vanishes). This is the case even if the device is only plugged into a charger.  If your Mac is plugged or DAP is plugged into a charger during playback, you might try eliminating that factor. 

One other thing (maybe you aren’t doing this but it always seems worth reminding about) - You should never at the same time charge the C9 and the DAP to which is connected from the same charger. This will create a short across the interconnect and could damage your DAP. For the sake of safety I never charge both devices at the same time even from separate chargers.


----------



## reuben3

jlemaster1957 said:


> This is the case even if the device is only plugged into a charger. If your Mac is plugged or DAP is plugged into a charger during playback, you might try eliminating that factor.


That's explains it, my Mac is a desktop and I can't disable it from charging my LPTG. Strangely, it all goes away when I switch C9 to SS mode. 

I wonder if a quality USB cable that has separate power and data/good shielding would fix this. It's not a huge deal, computer audio isn't great to begin with and I'm fine having it on SS for this use case.




jlemaster1957 said:


> One other thing (maybe you aren’t doing this but it always seems worth reminding about) - You should never at the same time charge the C9 and the DAP to which is connected from the same charger.


Thanks for the heads-up! Luckily I haven't been doing so.


----------



## bflat

Hi all, is there any reason to connect GND on 4.4mm interconnect cable? I understand the stock IC does not connect GND.

Thanks!


----------



## Andykong

bflat said:


> Hi all, is there any reason to connect GND on 4.4mm interconnect cable? I understand the stock IC does not connect GND.
> 
> Thanks!



Yes, the stock 4.4mm IC is not grounded and it works for almost all users.  But on some systems, using a grounded 4.4mm interconnect can get rid of audible noise effectively.  We have come across a handful of examples like this so far, but I can't figure out the reason behind these cases.


----------



## Andykong

jlemaster1957 said:


> And DAP is LGPT, correct? I have noted that if I have any device that is ‘live wired’ (anything other than battery operated devices in the chain) there is a lot more noise at the end of the chain (though for me only when music is not playing- during music playback the sound vanishes). This is the case even if the device is only plugged into a charger.  If your Mac is plugged or DAP is plugged into a charger during playback, you might try eliminating that factor.
> 
> One other thing (maybe you aren’t doing this but it always seems worth reminding about) - You should never at the same time charge the C9 and the DAP to which is connected from the same charger. This will create a short across the interconnect and could damage your DAP. For the sake of safety I never charge both devices at the same time even from separate chargers.





reuben3 said:


> That's explains it, my Mac is a desktop and I can't disable it from charging my LPTG. Strangely, it all goes away when I switch C9 to SS mode.
> 
> I wonder if a quality USB cable that has separate power and data/good shielding would fix this. It's not a huge deal, computer audio isn't great to begin with and I'm fine having it on SS for this use case.
> 
> ...



Vacuum tubes are more sensitive to the microphonic effect, so it is not surprising that you hear the interference with Tube mode only but not SS mode. 

Mac > USB > DAP > 4.4 PO > C9 Line/Pre > Tube

Can you disconnect the USB connection and play some tune on your DAP directly?  If the interference is gone, we can confirm that the source of interference happens on upstream, and we can start to tackle the US cable and your Mac setting. 

If the interference is coming from your Mac, passing through to DAP through the ground connection of the USB, then an USB cable with better shielding won't help.

If the interference is coming from your nearby wireless device and the USB cable has picked up the interference like an antenna, then an USB cable with better shielding will certainly help.


----------



## bflat

FYI, iBasso DX320 with Amp 12 does indeed connect GND on the dedicated line out port. I also got a 6 wire with GND interconnect and experienced the following:

The ground noise in PRE mode is now resolved with the new interconnect
Using the Cayin provided interconnect (no gnd), I was using separate power supplies for the DAP and C9. However both power supplies were on a power strip so shared the same ground. Both power supplies used the 3 prong AC plug. This worked ok, but PRE mode created ground noise so I kept using line in.
Once I used the new 6 wire interconnect, the C9 would immediately go into protection mode if both power supplies were connected to the DAP and C9 at that same time. Even when I turned the power supplies off, but still connected, C9 would go into protection mode. I resolved this by changing one of the chargers to a non-grounded two prong QC 3.0 charger. If you use the Cayin interconnect, GND is not connected so you can use grounded power supplies but you are likely going to get ground noise in PRE mode due to having to different ground potentials.
In addition to Cayin's instructions to not use the same power supply source for both source and C9, I would also add that your independent power supplies cannot both be grounded (3 prong plug). At least one power supply must be non-grounded (2 prong). This is for US AC plug.
Quick impressions on using PRE mode - as others have found out I do hear better clarity, space, and dynamics with no change in tonality.


----------



## gadus

Has anyone tried using c9 and hifiman he6se v2?


----------



## FooFighter

If anyone in Europe is thinking about selling his C9 or trade with my M9 plus some money pls send me a PM


----------



## Degrayr

Anyone connected the C9 using line out from a dongle like Lotoo Paw S2 (which will act as dac) to use with Android smartphones before? Does it work well?


----------



## Nostoi

Degrayr said:


> Anyone connected the C9 using line out from a dongle like Lotoo Paw S2 (which will act as dac) to use with Android smartphones before? Does it work well?


Did it when I had mine; worked well. Probably Questyle M15 would be best for this as it has fixed output.


----------



## FooFighter (Sep 2, 2022)

I'd like to ask a maybe trivial noob question.

If I want to connect some RS6 with specs  
S/N ratio		114 dB
 Dynamic range	95 dB
THD+N		0.003%
Output impedance	0.8Ω

... to C9 through Pentacon, true LO, what will be the resulting specs of the combo?

Edit:
Maybe to give some context for my question.
I am wondering about technical capabilities in terms of DNR, SNR of a midfi DAP (like RS6) vs a TOTL DAP (like M9) vs a midfi DAP combined with a TOTL mobile amp (like C9).
The specs like DNR of R2R devices have been kind of mediocre AFAIK.
Only DACs like Holos are performing on a level of the good delta sigma devices here.
I am now wondering 
- if the combo with a mobile amp (over true line out) will lead to specs of a TOTL DAP (such as DX300 MAX etc)
- if human ears can hear the difference anyway (the difference on paper of RS6 DNR and the usual DNR of good DAPs is quite big).

So far I have been hearing alot about perceived bigger stage with C9, SNR increased, etc but is this reflected in increased specs?
Which parts are related to DAC limitations only and which to the amplification chain?
Btw to my ears the synergy between a DAP and IEM in terms of frequency response and which parts of the frequency spectrum are pronounced or recessed could play a far more significant role to (at least my ears) than the before mentioned specs


----------



## PhenixS1970

Nostoi said:


> Did it when I had mine; worked well. Probably Questyle M15 would be best for this as it has fixed output.


With the firmware released a few months ago S2 also has fixed LO .


----------



## Andykong

Mid-Autumn Festival is held on the full moon of the 8th month of the lunar calendar.  In Chinese Culture, roundness symbolizes completeness and togetherness, therefore, the Mid-Autumn Festival is a time for friends and family to come together and appreciate the union and completeness of our life.  This might be a small wish that we take for granted in the past, but COVID has taught us to treasure every moment of gathering and reunion, and we wish all our users and friend a Happy Mid-Autumn Festival.

I want to share a personal plan with all my partners and friends in HeadFi forum.  I'll take a long break later this month, and this will probably last till the end of 2022.  I'll stay out of the radar completely and will resurface when I feel confident that I am fit to handle my job again. @Cayin will take over my role for Cayin audio and I'll hand over my ongoing activities and responsibilities to them gradually next week.   So if you need to PM me on a Cayin-related issue, please include or address your problem to @Cayin.  I really enjoy my time with the HeadFi forum and am looking forward to meeting with you again after my long vacation.


----------



## dadracer2

Take care, stay well and get a good rest.


----------



## NJoyzAudio

Andykong said:


> Mid-Autumn Festival is held on the full moon of the 8th month of the lunar calendar.  In Chinese Culture, roundness symbolizes completeness and togetherness, therefore, the Mid-Autumn Festival is a time for friends and family to come together and appreciate the union and completeness of our life.  This might be a small wish that we take for granted in the past, but COVID has taught us to treasure every moment of gathering and reunion, and we wish all our users and friend a Happy Mid-Autumn Festival.
> 
> I want to share a personal plan with all my partners and friends in HeadFi forum.  I'll take a long break later this month, and this will probably last till the end of 2022.  I'll stay out of the radar completely and will resurface when I feel confident that I am fit to handle my job again. @Cayin will take over my role for Cayin audio and I'll hand over my ongoing activities and responsibilities to them gradually next week.   So if you need to PM me on a Cayin-related issue, please include or address your problem to @Cayin.  I really enjoy my time with the HeadFi forum and am looking forward to meeting with you again after my long vacation.


Andy
Enjoy the much deserved rest!
Please do come back, as it would be a shame to lose your openess and expertise on this forum!
Stay well, Stay safe!


----------



## jlemaster1957

Andykong said:


> Mid-Autumn Festival is held on the full moon of the 8th month of the lunar calendar.  In Chinese Culture, roundness symbolizes completeness and togetherness, therefore, the Mid-Autumn Festival is a time for friends and family to come together and appreciate the union and completeness of our life.  This might be a small wish that we take for granted in the past, but COVID has taught us to treasure every moment of gathering and reunion, and we wish all our users and friend a Happy Mid-Autumn Festival.
> 
> I want to share a personal plan with all my partners and friends in HeadFi forum.  I'll take a long break later this month, and this will probably last till the end of 2022.  I'll stay out of the radar completely and will resurface when I feel confident that I am fit to handle my job again. @Cayin will take over my role for Cayin audio and I'll hand over my ongoing activities and responsibilities to them gradually next week.   So if you need to PM me on a Cayin-related issue, please include or address your problem to @Cayin.  I really enjoy my time with the HeadFi forum and am looking forward to meeting with you again after my long vacation.


Rest well, friend - it has been a long couple of years. We look forward to our interactions with you in future. You have been an enormous help to so many of us!


----------



## mmoderni

Shameless Plug: If someone looks for C9 in like new condition, mine is on classified. thnks.


----------



## alavenue

Hello! 

I'm selling my C9 if anyone is interested 

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds...headphone-amplifier-cayin-leather-case.27362/


----------



## etroze86

jlemaster1957 said:


> One additional item- C9 is really meant to be connected to a battery powered DAP. If connected to a powered DAC or computer or a laptop that is charging (via 3.5 mm aux, for example), you may also create a short circuit- especially if C9 is also charging at the same time. If the upstream DAC is battery powered you should be safe, eg I have connected it to an IFi micro iDSD signature that is battery powered (via RCA out from the Signature) without problem - even though the upstream signal source was USB from a DC-powered streamer (Sonore MicroRendu). I have still avoided charging C9 while doing so- just to be safe.


How do you like it with the signature? I have that and the Gryphon and I'm excited to try the C9 with them.


----------



## jlemaster1957 (Sep 25, 2022)

etroze86 said:


> How do you like it with the signature? I have that and the Gryphon and I'm excited to try the C9 with them.


I’ve mostly used the Signature as LO DAC , using RCA DUAL out SE (via RCA-> single 3.5 mm splitter) into C9 3.5 mm port. Signature retains the smooth character of the original SQ. Connected this way, 3D and XBass on tbe signature are not active since those are analogue/amp elements of the Signature, at least I’m not hearing any difference when I activate them when streaming to the C9.

 More importantly (to me) this connection allows me to stream Roon into the C9 (and benefit from Roon DSP) since I have a MicroRendu streamer connected to the Signature via USB. It’s important I think to run the Signature from battery while doing this to avoid triggering the C9 protective mode (I say -I think- because it has not triggered and the Signature runs from its internal battery all the time anyway). I had some problems with triggering with the USB connection upstream until I got an Audiosensibility USB cable with better power-vs signal isolation. Anyway - to your point it all sounds great and the C9 elevates the technicalities of the SIGNATURE.


----------



## etroze86

jlemaster1957 said:


> I’ve mostly used the Signature as LO DAC , using RCA DUAL out SE into C9 3.5 mm. Signature retains the smooth character of the original SQ. Connected this way, 3D and XBass on tbe signature are not active since those are analogue elements of the Signature, at least I’m not hearing any difference when I activate them when streaming to the C9.
> 
> More importantly (to me) this connection allows me to stream Roon into the C9 (and benefit from Roon DSP) since I have a MicroRendu streamer connected to the Signature via USB. It’s important I think to run the Signature from battery while doing this to avoid triggering the C9 protective mode (I say -I think- because it has not triggered and the Signature runs from its internal battery all the time anyway). I had some problems with triggering with the USB connection upstream until I got an Audiosensibility USB cable with better power-vs signal isolation. Anyway - to your point it all sounds great and the C9 elevates the technicalities of the SIGNATURE.


That's what I like to hear!!! I was a little worried about synergy but you put my mind at ease.
I am familiar with the power protection issue and I believe minirig has the same time of protection circuit as you shouldn't charge them while playing. 
Thanks for the reply and I'll let you guys know how it turns out with bother the signature and the Gryphon.


----------



## gazzington

Sony zx300 to c9 and beyerdynamic t1 2nd gen is a very nice combo


----------



## marcus2704

I am having a tough time finding a suitable amplification for the DCA Expanse.   The Diablo was unable to drive bass driven music at moderate to loud volume without constant bass clipping.  I have an HPA4 which drives them fine, but is perhaps too lean for my personal taste.   I have a Cayin N6ii and I love the exciting, forward sound signature of that and this is what I am looking to bring to the Expanse in terms of the source.  How would the C9 fit in here?   Potentially, I could look to partner it with a N8ii.


----------



## jlemaster1957

marcus2704 said:


> I am having a tough time finding a suitable amplification for the DCA Expanse.   The Diablo was unable to drive bass driven music at moderate to loud volume without constant bass clipping.  I have an HPA4 which drives them fine, but is perhaps too lean for my personal taste.   I have a Cayin N6ii and I love the exciting, forward sound signature of that and this is what I am looking to bring to the Expanse in terms of the source.  How would the C9 fit in here?   Potentially, I could look to partner it with a N8ii.


I have N6ii and regularly connect it to C9, both SE and balanced. I usually use the R01 module which will allow you to use either output into C9, and configure C9 as a power amp (since the R01 module doesn't have LO only PO output ports). This works very well for Hifiman Aryas and LCD-X but looking at the Expanse on line I couldn't see what was its impedance or sensitivity (even on the DCA website to buy one) so it would depend on that. Susvaras would be too much for the C9 to drive- I have absolutely no issues on my gear and it's very capable, though is in fact really aimed at IEM users, and while you could hook it up to a balanced DAC via XLRs (dual XLR --> 4.4 mm plugs are out there), I would not recommend it, as it is really meant to connect to a battery-powered DAP. Connecting it to a powered source is likely to lead to a short circuit with the C9 ground and damage your DAC or HPs or both. But the N6ii would be fine.


----------



## jerick70

marcus2704 said:


> I am having a tough time finding a suitable amplification for the DCA Expanse.   The Diablo was unable to drive bass driven music at moderate to loud volume without constant bass clipping.  I have an HPA4 which drives them fine, but is perhaps too lean for my personal taste.   I have a Cayin N6ii and I love the exciting, forward sound signature of that and this is what I am looking to bring to the Expanse in terms of the source.  How would the C9 fit in here?   Potentially, I could look to partner it with a N8ii.


I pair the C9 with a Hiby RS6 and this combo sounds wonderful with the DCA Expanse.  I think the N8ii would be a worthy source for the C9 also.


----------



## kwilkins

Today I charged the C9 (after not using it for months) got a full charge but it won't power on.  The light on the front doesn't come on when I push the power button, I tried with the C9 plugged in as well.

Any thoughts?  Is there a reset or reboot process?


----------



## jerick70

kwilkins said:


> Today I charged the C9 (after not using it for months) got a full charge but it won't power on.  The light on the front doesn't come on when I push the power button, I tried with the C9 plugged in as well.
> 
> Any thoughts?  Is there a reset or reboot process?


Remove the battery module and take all of the batteries out of the module and then reseat the batteries and put the battery module back in.


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## jlemaster1957 (Oct 28, 2022)

jerick70 said:


> Remove the battery module and take all of the batteries out of the module and then reseat the batteries and put the battery module back in.


Also after doing so plug in the unit to power and allow it to charge for an additional 10 sec (try 30 sec to be sure). Sounds like your protective circuit has been triggered- this is all to reset it.

One other thought - When I first got my C9 it came with a set of batteries that was discharged for a long period of time, and when I plugged it in it appeared to be fully charged. In fact however, The batteries were not rechargeable anymore, and the unit behaved exactly as you described. This type of battery doesn’t like to sit in a discharged state for a long period of time. If you do what we suggested and you still can’t get it to turn on,  my recommendation is to replace the batteries before doing anything else ie considering repairs.


----------



## kwilkins

jlemaster1957 said:


> One other thought - When I first got my C9 it came with a set of batteries that was discharged for a long period of time, and when I plugged it in it appeared to be fully charged. In fact however, The batteries were not rechargeable anymore, and the unit behaved exactly as you described. This type of battery doesn’t like to sit in a discharged state for a long period of time. If you do what we suggested and you still can’t get it to turn on,  my recommendation is to replace the batteries before doing anything else ie considering repairs.


Thanks again for your help.  I've tried all you suggested without success. It seems I have the dead battery issue you had with yours.  I'll get some new batteries and see if that sorts it out.  I recall a while ago there was some debate on which batteries to use - any recommendation?


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## jlemaster1957 (Oct 29, 2022)

kwilkins said:


> Thanks again for your help.  I've tried all you suggested without success. It seems I have the dead battery issue you had with yours.  I'll get some new batteries and see if that sorts it out.  I recall a while ago there was some debate on which batteries to use - any recommendation?


Sony Murata VTC6- which is the same as the original that came with C9.
If you are in US or Canada, they are available now from BatteryMart.com which is reliable. There are loads of cheap fakes on the web that pretend to be VTC6’s so do be careful.
https://www.batterymart.com/SEARCH.html?q=Vtc6

I also have a set of Orbtronics 18650 flat tops  which work fine though the charge doesn’t last quite as long (but they are less expensive) and has the curious flaw that they keep the C9 charging light glowing ‘4 lights’ after charging and even after disconnecting the cable even when the C9 unit is off. I get around this by removing/storing separately 1 battery when I am not using the C9. I also bought the extra charging unit from Musicteck which allows me to always have a charged set of batteries ready to slide into C9.

Orbtronics 18650
https://www.orbtronic.com/3500mah-18650-imr-battery-high-drain-rechargeable-orbtronic-li-ion

C9 charging unit
https://shop.musicteck.com/products...sEFNyats8pyt2QKj5OkLqZ5cdUKbLKdoaAjIZEALw_wcB

Hope you get this sorted out. I bet new batteries will fix your problem but pls let us know.


----------



## kwilkins

Perfect. Thanks so much for all the information.


----------



## Halimj7

Can the C9 be used well as a preamp to connect to other Dac/amps? Thanks


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## bflat (Oct 30, 2022)

kwilkins said:


> Thanks again for your help.  I've tried all you suggested without success. It seems I have the dead battery issue you had with yours.  I'll get some new batteries and see if that sorts it out.  I recall a while ago there was some debate on which batteries to use - any recommendation?


Whenever I change batteries or use a external charger instead of the module, I find I have to do the following:

1) Insert batteries into the module
2) Connect USB power
3) 4th LED light should start blinking
4) When 4th LED light stays on, I disconnect power (around 5-10 sec)
5) Insert module to C9 amp

I have not been able to reset protection mode while the battery module is inside the C9 so I always remove the battery module before resetting in the steps above. However, I've only experienced protection mode changing/charging batteries outside the module.


----------



## Halimj7

Does the C9 really sound like a tube amp when using the tube timbre?


----------



## Slim1970

Halimj7 said:


> Does the C9 really sound like a tube amp when using the tube timbre?


Not really. When compared directly to something like the Woo Audio WA8, the tube mode on the C9 falls short to my ears. The C9's tube mode does take the edge off the music, but it's just not all that tubey sounding.


----------



## CayinSupport

Halimj7 said:


> Can the C9 be used well as a preamp to connect to other Dac/amps? Thanks


Hi sir, C9 cannot be used as a preamp. It has Pre in but not Pre out function.


----------



## Ichos

Halimj7 said:


> Does the C9 really sound like a tube amp when using the tube timbre?


Given the size and the scope of use , I think that it is pretty good.
Not OTL type of tube sound but you still get that tube magic.


----------



## CayinSupport

kwilkins said:


> Thanks again for your help.  I've tried all you suggested without success. It seems I have the dead battery issue you had with yours.  I'll get some new batteries and see if that sorts it out.  I recall a while ago there was some debate on which batteries to use - any recommendation?


 In this case, the batteries cannot be charged inside C9. Please remove the batteries and charge them with a separate 18650 charger. If they also cannot be charged on the 18650 charger, we are afraid the batteries need to be changed.


----------



## kwilkins

CayinSupport said:


> In this case, the batteries cannot be charged inside C9. Please remove the batteries and charge them with a separate 18650 charger. If they also cannot be charged on the 18650 charger, we are afraid the batteries need to be changed.


None of the helpful advice members provided worked, but I did stumble on a solution.  There is very small reset pin whole on one one side of the unit.  With the C9 plugged into the power I put a pin in the whole and held it for about 5 seconds, the light came on and the batteries started charging.  It looks like this reset solved the problem.  

I don't think this method is covered in the manual, which is a curious thing.


----------



## jlemaster1957

CayinSupport said:


> In this case, the batteries cannot be charged inside C9. Please remove the batteries and charge them with a separate 18650 charger. If they also cannot be charged on the 18650 charger, we are afraid the batteries need to be changed.


My experience - in the situation when the batteries need to be changed- is that the 18650 charger when plugged in, still will light up 4 constant lights. It seems that the charger will do this when it has done all it can to charge the batteries - even if they are not chargeable. In the end, I diagnosed the situation by individually testing each of the batteries with a multi-meter and finding that they held no significant charge.


----------



## jlemaster1957

kwilkins said:


> None of the helpful advice members provided worked, but I did stumble on a solution.  There is very small reset pin whole on one one side of the unit.  With the C9 plugged into the power I put a pin in the whole and held it for about 5 seconds, the light came on and the batteries started charging.  It looks like this reset solved the problem.
> 
> I don't think this method is covered in the manual, which is a curious thing.


Wow that’s great- glad that worked for you. @CayinSupport what is in that hole? If it’s a reset button it would be important for us all to know about it!


----------



## Marat Sar

Anyone try the c9 with sp3000? Especially interested in comparisons with sp2000... but really just any impressions would be cool. I'm considering going from 2000 to 3000, and hope it's gonna be goood. I find sp2000 to be by far the best dac for c9, far better than my other options (l&p p6 and dx200ti)


----------



## CayinSupport

kwilkins said:


> None of the helpful advice members provided worked, but I did stumble on a solution.  There is very small reset pin whole on one one side of the unit.  With the C9 plugged into the power I put a pin in the whole and held it for about 5 seconds, the light came on and the batteries started charging.  It looks like this reset solved the problem.
> 
> I don't think this method is covered in the manual, which is a curious thing.


There is no reset hole on C9. Do you mean this hole(below picture showed)? It is a light hole.





This hole do not have the reset function.


----------



## CayinSupport

CayinSupport said:


> There is no reset hole on C9. Do you mean this hole(below picture showed)? It is a light hole.
> 
> 
> This hole do not have the reset function.


@jlemaster1957


----------



## CayinSupport

jlemaster1957 said:


> My experience - in the situation when the batteries need to be changed- is that the 18650 charger when plugged in, still will light up 4 constant lights. It seems that the charger will do this when it has done all it can to charge the batteries - even if they are not chargeable. In the end, I diagnosed the situation by individually testing each of the batteries with a multi-meter and finding that they held no significant charge.


If the battery can not be charged even with a seperate 18650 charger, we are afraid the battery may be faulty. You can consider to change four batteries.


----------



## kwilkins

CayinSupport said:


> @jlemaster1957



That is the whole I was referring two, sorry I confused it for a reset when it is actually a light.  It must have been a coincidence that the unit started working when I put a paperclip in that whole.  I had tried a number of times to wake the dead batteries, I guess the unit just randomly started working.  I'm all sorted out now.  Thanks.


----------



## cheznous

Marat Sar said:


> Anyone try the c9 with sp3000? Especially interested in comparisons with sp2000... but really just any impressions would be cool. I'm considering going from 2000 to 3000, and hope it's gonna be goood. I find sp2000 to be by far the best dac for c9, far better than my other options (l&p p6 and dx200ti)


Funny but I’m just listening to that combo now. Sounds wonderful but I concede the SP2000 was very good so we talking incremental improvement here. The SP3000 brings, in my opinion, more clarity and an improved sound stage. Truthfully with iems you probably don’t need the C9 with the SP3000 as the SP drives them fine. However I already had the C9 and I like the combination. Plus when I swap from Odins to Utopias then you really need the C9.


----------



## cheznous

It’s a pretty heavy combo though in more ways than one.


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## Tom123456 (Nov 26, 2022)

I bought the C9 from Andrew at MusicTeck I have had it for a while and wanted to share my impressions. Shoutout to Andrew for the awesome customer service he responded really fast and it was an awesome experience.

I mainly use it with the Focal Stellia, Final D8000 Pro and Luxury Precision LP6 Gold.

First off with class A Solid State Timbre, I noticed an very clean sound, it improved the dynamics compared to the amp within the LP6
Gold and offered more punch and slam making the sound coming out of the stellia and d8000 pro more engaging. It also improved the Vocals making it more dynamic and more powerful making vocals come alive even more compared to LP6 amp.

Class A Tube Mode
This is my personal favorite configuration out of the three. In this mode what I said about the solid state timbre can be applied here. But with the tube timbre it takes the edges off everything just a little bit and adds a bit more soundstage. It kept all the advantage of the solid state it did not sound slow at all or have the negatives that people associate with tube. Only con I can give it is that I did notice a tiny lost in detail but the trade off was definitely worth it. The pairing with Focal Stellia in this mode was nothing short of amazing. Gave me chills while listening to some of my favorite tracks.

Class AB Solid State
This is my least favorite mode.
In my opinion this is a fun mode to have but most of the time I prefered the other modes.
The advantages of this mode is that it offered even more punch and dynamics compared to other modes. It was a fun and punchy experience but then I started to noticed the vocals did not sound as clear and the soundstage was smaller while losing quite a bit of detail.

Overall the C9 AMP for me is a clear step up from the amp inside the LP6 Gold. When I listened back to the LP6 alone the sound was less engaging, soundstage collapsed a bit, had less dynamics. The LP6 drove headphones even better than Hugo 2 in my opinion but C9 just offer that ability to driving full size headphones to the next level bringing my portable setup closer to desktop level. Definitely a must if I wanted to drive full size headphones on the go.


----------



## loudywen

Hi guys, I am confused about the difference between Hugo 2 vs C9. I am new to this, so I have DAP should I connect the DAP+HUGO2+ C9? Or just *DAP + HUGO2* or *DAP+ C9*?   Are the sound will be different?


----------



## loudywen

loudywen said:


> Hi guys, I am confused about the difference between Hugo 2 vs C9. I am new to this, so I have DAP should I connect the DAP+HUGO2+ C9? Or just *DAP + HUGO2* or *DAP+ C9*?   Are the sound will be different?


If I already have Hugo2 should I get C9?


----------



## Tristy

loudywen said:


> If I already have Hugo2 should I get C9?


Yes, Hugo 2 and c9 is the best combination I’ve heard. The Hugo 2 comes across as too unexciting on its own and linear / reference. The C9 injects some warmth and versatility to the excellent detail and technicalities of the Hugo 2


----------



## Slim1970

loudywen said:


> Hi guys, I am confused about the difference between Hugo 2 vs C9. I am new to this, so I have DAP should I connect the DAP+HUGO2+ C9? Or just *DAP + HUGO2* or *DAP+ C9*?   Are the sound will be different?


The C9 is just an amp. So you need a source to plug into it to get sound out of it. The Hugo 2 is a DAC/Amp combo. So you don’t need an external amp for it to get sound. Most people are happy with only the Hugo 2, but I liked using it in DAC mode an connected to the C9 because I preferred the sound of the Hugo 2/C9 together than directly out of the Hugo 2 itself. I no longer have my Hugo 2. I sold it in favor of a Mojo 2 because I want the EQ features. The sound quality is close, but the Hugo 2 does edge out the Mojo 2 in overall sound quality.


----------



## loudywen

Slim1970 said:


> The C9 is just an amp. So you need a source to plug into it to get sound out of it. The Hugo 2 is a DAC/Amp combo. So you don’t need an external amp for it to get sound. Most people are happy with only the Hugo 2, but I liked using it in DAC mode an connected to the C9 because I preferred the sound of the Hugo 2/C9 together than directly out of the Hugo 2 itself. I no longer have my Hugo 2. I sold it in favor of a Mojo 2 because I want the EQ features. The sound quality is close, but the Hugo 2 does edge out the Mojo 2 in overall sound quality.


If I want to do this: *DAP+Hugo2+C9,* which port I should use on Hugo2 to connect to C9? Can I just use a 3.5 to 3.5 cable plug into the 3.5 jack on Hugo2 and the other end of the 3.5 connect to the C9 3.5 input?


----------



## bflat

loudywen said:


> If I already have Hugo2 should I get C9?


Could you? Sure, C9 is just an amp as others have stated that will give subtle tonal differences to H2.
Should you? Maybe. Just keep in mind C9 can only diminish the resolution and detail out of H2, it cannot improve it.
Who should? If you have a DAP that doesn't have sufficient power for your headphones, then a C9 can solve that. H2 has plenty of power for most headphones.


----------



## Slim1970

loudywen said:


> If I want to do this: *DAP+Hugo2+C9,* which port I should use on Hugo2 to connect to C9? Can I just use a 3.5 to 3.5 cable plug into the 3.5 jack on Hugo2 and the other end of the 3.5 connect to the C9 3.5 input?


Yes, 3.5mm out of the Hugo 2 into the 3.5mm input of the C9


----------



## jlemaster1957 (Dec 16, 2022)

Slim1970 said:


> The C9 is just an amp. So you need a source to plug into it to get sound out of it. The Hugo 2 is a DAC/Amp combo. So you don’t need an external amp for it to get sound. Most people are happy with only the Hugo 2, but I liked using it in DAC mode an connected to the C9 because I preferred the sound of the Hugo 2/C9 together than directly out of the Hugo 2 itself. I no longer have my Hugo 2. I sold it in favor of a Mojo 2 because I want the EQ features. The sound quality is close, but the Hugo 2 does edge out the Mojo 2 in overall sound quality.


Please see earlier posts in this thread about connecting C9 to powered devices (search for ‘protective mode’ and posts by @Andykong and @Whitigir. The C9 is designed to connect to battery- powered devices. Connecting to a powered device is risky given the ground connections of C9. It may be ok, but you should absolutely NOT charge the C9 while it is this connected and particularly not when plugged into a device with which C9 shares a common ground with your amp - this could be the same power strip. Users have destroyed powered equipment when connecting powered devices and charging C9 from that device eg from a laptop USB-C while connected to the headphone out of the laptop. Your set up is not the same but be very careful. See the first post in this thread for more links, especially post #719


----------



## Slim1970

jlemaster1957 said:


> Please see earlier posts in this thread about connecting C9 to powered devices (search for ‘protective mode’ and posts by @Andykong and @Whitigir. The C9 is designed to connect to battery- powered devices. Connecting to a powered device is risky given the ground connections of C9. It may be ok, but you should absolutely NOT charge the C9 while it is this connected and particularly not when plugged into a device with which C9 shares a common ground with your amp - this could be the same power strip. Users have destroyed powered equipment when connecting powered devices and charging C9 from that device eg from a laptop USB-C while connected to the headphone out of the laptop. Your set up is not the same but be very careful. See the first post in this thread for more links, especially post #719


I didn’t say anything about charging the C9 when playing. I only made comments about using the Hugo 2 with C9 versus using the Hugo 2 alone. Charging and playing the C9 is a no no, but thanks for bring it up again


----------



## Andykong

jlemaster1957 said:


> Please see earlier posts in this thread about connecting C9 to powered devices (search for ‘protective mode’ and posts by @Andykong and @Whitigir. The C9 is designed to connect to battery- powered devices. Connecting to a powered device is risky given the ground connections of C9. It may be ok, but you should absolutely NOT charge the C9 while it is this connected and particularly not when plugged into a device with which C9 shares a common ground with your amp - this could be the same power strip. Users have destroyed powered equipment when connecting powered devices and charging C9 from that device eg from a laptop USB-C while connected to the headphone out of the laptop. Your set up is not the same but be very careful. See the first post in this thread for more links, especially post #719




Playback is not a problem, sharing ground will not cause any issue other than a minor downgrade in the black background which we don't normally spot unless we compare in ABA mode, but we warned our users on charging and listening at the same time if your system involves a desktop source that shares common ground with the C9.  This shouldn't be a show stopper though because you can solve the problem by buying an extra C9 batter power supply module and a spare set of 18650 batteries. 

On the other hand, the protection mechanism in C9 should halt and disconnect C9 before it causes any damage to your audio equipment upstream. If you are connecting a desktop DAC or preamp output to C9, the moment you plug in a charger to C9, the protection mechanism will kick in and your C9 will stop working.  So far we have only received one damage report when the user connects a notebook computer as a source to C9, the notebook grounding system is very different from audio equipment as it is connected to multiple internal  "devices"  and accessories at the same time, somehow the "1 to many" grounding systems has fooled C9 and failed to trigger the protection mechanism, and tossed the headphone output of the notebook.


----------



## 111MilesToGo

I have been reading the Head-Fi thread on the new HiBy RS8 R2R DAP, at least from the point onwards when the first units were shipped. One conclusion is: Cayin, with the C9, you‘ve got quite a trump card in your deck! A long-term one, too.

Just wanted to let everybody know. And also @Andykong, but for sure you are aware of this.


----------



## Slim1970

Andykong said:


> Playback is not a problem, sharing ground will not cause any issue other than a minor downgrade in the black background which we don't normally spot unless we compare in ABA mode, but we warned our users on charging and listening at the same time if your system involves a desktop source that shares common ground with the C9.  This shouldn't be a show stopper though because you can solve the problem by buying an extra C9 batter power supply module and a spare set of 18650 batteries.
> 
> On the other hand, the protection mechanism in C9 should halt and disconnect C9 before it causes any damage to your audio equipment upstream. If you are connecting a desktop DAC or preamp output to C9, the moment you plug in a charger to C9, the protection mechanism will kick in and your C9 will stop working.  So far we have only received one damage report when the user connects a notebook computer as a source to C9, the notebook grounding system is very different from audio equipment as it is connected to multiple internal  "devices"  and accessories at the same time, somehow the "1 to many" grounding systems has fooled C9 and failed to trigger the protection mechanism, and tossed the headphone output of the notebook.


Thanks for chiming in Andy!


----------



## kajetanjazz

Will this adapter enable me to connect Hugo 2 to C9 4.4mm input? I have my doubts about shortening anything, but I heard someone uses this method to get better results out of the c9. If it works I’m definitely buying it


----------



## Nostoi

kajetanjazz said:


> Will this adapter enable me to connect Hugo 2 to C9 4.4mm input? I have my doubts about shortening anything, but I heard someone uses this method to get better results out of the c9. If it works I’m definitely buying it


No, you can't do this. I have this exact same adapter and tried it with both C9 and Mass Kobo. On C9 to Hugo2, you can only go from 3.5mm or RCA to C9. Using an adapter like this and trying to generate a quasi-balanced connection doesn't work - it results in channel imbalance and loss of coherence. 

The adapter itself works perfectly when used on the Hugo 2 for balanced headphones, so worth getting for those reasons - but never to connect to an amp.


----------



## kajetanjazz

Nostoi said:


> No, you can't do this. I have this exact same adapter and tried it with both C9 and Mass Kobo. On C9 to Hugo2, you can only go from 3.5mm or RCA to C9. Using an adapter like this and trying to generate a quasi-balanced connection doesn't work - it results in channel imbalance and loss of coherence.
> 
> The adapter itself works perfectly when used on the Hugo 2 for balanced headphones, so worth getting for those reasons - but never to connect to an amp.


Thanks! I don’t think I need it cause I already have 6.3mm to female 4.4mm custom adapter from Forza Audioworks. I was sceptical when I read it, but had no experience with the PWaudio one


----------



## kajetanjazz

is there some way to convert to balanced signal? Currawong had a little device which took 3.5mm in and gave 2.5mm balanced out. Sadly it’s not in production anymore


----------



## Nostoi

kajetanjazz said:


> Thanks! I don’t think I need it cause I already have 6.3mm to female 4.4mm custom adapter from Forza Audioworks. I was sceptical when I read it, but had no experience with the PWaudio one


Also had the Forza one!  Will work perfectly. Not really much difference other than I find the PWAudio is better for ergonomics.


----------



## Nostoi

kajetanjazz said:


> is there some way to convert to balanced signal? Currawong had a little device which took 3.5mm in and gave 2.5mm balanced out. Sadly it’s not in production anymore


I think only some amps can do that - single ended in, balanced out. C9, Phatlab Phantasy II, Mass Kobo 428.....not aware of any little devices tho.


----------



## karloil

kajetanjazz said:


> is there some way to convert to balanced signal? Currawong had a little device which took 3.5mm in and gave 2.5mm balanced out. Sadly it’s not in production anymore



I know exactly what you mean, I wanted to purchase the same unit before when Balanced was the "in" thing....let me search again what the name of that device is....


----------



## kajetanjazz

karloil said:


> I know exactly what you mean, I wanted to purchase the same unit before when Balanced was the "in" thing....let me search again what the name of that device is....


It was Aclear Porta, but it’s not produced anymore unfortunately


----------



## karloil

kajetanjazz said:


> It was Aclear Porta, but it’s not produced anymore unfortunately



Ahhh, there you go! I can only remember "eclair", close enough?   

Yeah, I wanted to get one of those before.


----------



## Andykong

Thanks for being such an important part of the Cayin community. Hope you have a great Christmas and New Year!


----------



## NJoyzAudio

Andykong said:


> Thanks for being such an important part of the Cayin community. Hope you have a great Christmas and New Year!


Thank you Andy
Happy Hoildays to you also!


----------



## arftech

Happy Holidays!  I’m interested in pairing a C9 with my SP3000.  Anybody doing this and my last question is will the C9 drive the LCD-4 sufficientl?


----------



## kajetanjazz

What totl headphones have best synergy with the C9? I’m considering lcd-5 or he1000se


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## Slim1970

kajetanjazz said:


> What totl headphones have best synergy with the C9? I’m considering lcd-5 or he1000se


Both of those headphones are perfect for the C9. I even enjoy my Diana TC and Solitaire P’s out of the C9. It’s more than capable of driver almost any headphone.


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## cheznous

arftech said:


> Happy Holidays!  I’m interested in pairing a C9 with my SP3000.  Anybody doing this and my last question is will the C9 drive the LCD-4 sufficientl?


I do and enjoy it with a variety of iem and headphones. Primarily EE Odins and  Focal Utopia.


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## kajetanjazz

Slim1970 said:


> Both of those headphones are perfect for the C9. I even enjoy my Diana TC and Solitaire P’s out of the C9. It’s more than capable of driver almost any headphone.


I’m asking because I use it as my ultimate system with the hugo2. I’m a freshman student, so I’m not really able to rotate gear that much. I see in your hp inventory you own the HEKse. Can you comment on the soundstage and dynamics out of c9? I’ve had meaningful time with lcd5 and liked the speed, clarity and midrange dynamics, but it was before I owned a c9. I’m dwelling which of these two would be better for me. I really care for spatial information

I haven’t tried Diana line that extensively and I would doubt phi or TC would be driven up to its potential with my setup. I appreciate the answers!


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## Slim1970

kajetanjazz said:


> I’m asking because I use it as my ultimate system with the hugo2. I’m a freshman student, so I’m not really able to rotate gear that much. I see in your hp inventory you own the HEKse. Can you comment on the soundstage and dynamics out of c9? I’ve had meaningful time with lcd5 and liked the speed, clarity and midrange dynamics, but it was before I owned a c9. I’m dwelling which of these two would be better for me. I really care for spatial information
> 
> I haven’t tried Diana line that extensively and I would doubt phi or TC would be driven up to its potential with my setup. I appreciate the answers!


The HEKse is really easy to drive. The combo of the Hugo 2 and C9 will net you the same benefits as a dedicated desktop system. Meaning staging, dynamics, speed, resolution and clarity are all there with the HEKse. As an added bonus the C9 also has great tonality. As far as spatial information, I think both the LCD-5 and HEKse will get you that. The HEKse wins in bass and holography. The LCD-5 is more intimate sounding with slightly better transient snap. All other sonic attributes I give the edge to the HEKse.

I sold my LCD-5 and Hugo 2, in favor of the Mojo 2, before getting the C9. So my setup is the Mojo 2/C9, which is percentage points just behind the Hugo 2/C9 in overall sound quality. I sold my Hugo in favor of the Mojo 2 because of the EQ feature. I might has give up some quality, but the EQ feature makes it an ever better solution for me. Even though the Hugo 2 is the better overall DAC performance wise. 

I disagree on Diana line being driven by the C9 with the Hugo 2/Mojo 2 as the DAC. The C9 has more power than the Broadway, which Abyss recommends for the Diana's. The C9 also sounds fuller and is just as dynamic and resolute as the Broadway. Like I said, my Diana TC's sounds outstanding out of the C9. The C9 has great driving ability and actually does perform like a desktop amp.


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## kajetanjazz

Thank you for your inputs! Now I will be probably leaning towards the heks, as they are also cheaper


Slim1970 said:


> I disagree on Diana line being driven by the C9 with the Hugo 2/Mojo 2 as the DAC. The C9 has more power than the Broadway, which Abyss recommends for the Diana's. The C9 also sounds fuller and is just as dynamic and resolute as the Broadway. Like I said, my Diana TC's sounds outstanding out of the C9. The C9 has great driving ability and actually does perform like a desktop amp.


Interesting, I could consider the TC if I saved up a bit more. Would you say it‘s worth it on such system? Not sure how it competes spatially vs HEK


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## Slim1970

kajetanjazz said:


> Thank you for your inputs! Now I will be probably leaning towards the heks, as they are also cheaper
> 
> Interesting, I could consider the TC if I saved up a bit more. Would you say it‘s worth it on such system? Not sure how it competes spatially vs HEK


I’d still lean towards the HEKse in this case. It is easier to drive and you’ll be getting the best sound all the time.


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## Spawn300Z

I agree with the HEXse another one that would benefit from this setup is the DCA Expanse.


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## kajetanjazz

Spawn300Z said:


> I agree with the HEXse another one that would benefit from this setup is the DCA Expanse.


It is a dope headphone and I actually travel a lot between the country I study in and my home country. Which would make this truly transportable setup very handy


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## Spawn300Z

kajetanjazz said:


> It is a dope headphone and I actually travel a lot between the country I study in and my home country. Which would make this truly transportable setup very handy


Yeah, that’s what I like about the Expanse and Stealh. They are sturdy and pack up smaller than most high end cans. With the right power they will truly shine. The Cayin C9 brings out more of what these headphones have to offer than just a DAP or DAC. They will sound good, but to make them shine they need a little more power.


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## Andykong

kajetanjazz said:


> What totl headphones have best synergy with the C9? I’m considering lcd-5 or he1000se





Slim1970 said:


> The HEKse is really easy to drive. The combo of the Hugo 2 and C9 will net you the same benefits as a dedicated desktop system. Meaning staging, dynamics, speed, resolution and clarity are all there with the HEKse. As an added bonus the C9 also has great tonality. As far as spatial information, I think both the LCD-5 and HEKse will get you that. The HEKse wins in bass and holography. The LCD-5 is more intimate sounding with slightly better transient snap. All other sonic attributes I give the edge to the HEKse.
> 
> I sold my LCD-5 and Hugo 2, in favor of the Mojo 2, before getting the C9. So my setup is the Mojo 2/C9, which is percentage points just behind the Hugo 2/C9 in overall sound quality. I sold my Hugo in favor of the Mojo 2 because of the EQ feature. I might has give up some quality, but the EQ feature makes it an ever better solution for me. Even though the Hugo 2 is the better overall DAC performance wise.
> 
> I disagree on Diana line being driven by the C9 with the Hugo 2/Mojo 2 as the DAC. The C9 has more power than the Broadway, which Abyss recommends for the Diana's. The C9 also sounds fuller and is just as dynamic and resolute as the Broadway. Like I said, my Diana TC's sounds outstanding out of the C9. The C9 has great driving ability and actually does perform like a desktop amp.



Slim1970 has provided a very informative comparison of LCD-5 and HEKse (and Diana as well) with C9, definitely very helpful to C9 users. 

@kajetanjazz  Synergy is related to sound signature, and the sound signature is the summation of performance and personal preference, so it's difficult to make any recommendation before knowing your preference.  Maybe I'll approach the question from a more performance-based perspective.  If I were to compare C9 with a $2K desktop headphone amplifier (GSX-Mini or something like Cayin HA-6A for a little bit more), HEKse probably will get my vote because the performance gap between C9 and its desktop counterpart is relatively smaller.  Both LCD-5 and Diana will be noticeably benefited when you switch to these desktop amplifiers.


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## kajetanjazz

Andykong said:


> Slim1970 has provided a very informative comparison of LCD-5 and HEKse (and Diana as well) with C9, definitely very helpful to C9 users.
> 
> @kajetanjazz  Synergy is related to sound signature, and the sound signature is the summation of performance and personal preference, so it's difficult to make any recommendation before knowing your preference.  Maybe I'll approach the question from a more performance-based perspective.  If I were to compare C9 with a $2K desktop headphone amplifier (GSX-Mini or something like Cayin HA-6A for a little bit more), HEKse probably will get my vote because the performance gap between C9 and its desktop counterpart is relatively smaller.  Both LCD-5 and Diana will be noticeably benefited when you switch to these desktop amplifiers.



Agree, I care about specifics like dynamics and spatial presentation, but when I asked about what has best synergy it just meant what headphones perform to their best in the pairing with C9. I considered gsx mini, however got the c9 instead and I’m very happy with it. Probably I’ll get a desktop unit later while I first get the headphone and c9 will be what drives it for the nearest future


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## jlemaster1957

kajetanjazz said:


> Agree, I care about specifics like dynamics and spatial presentation, but when I asked about what has best synergy it just meant what headphones perform to their best in the pairing with C9. I considered gsx mini, however got the c9 instead and I’m very happy with it. Probably I’ll get a desktop unit later while I first get the headphone and c9 will be what drives it for the nearest future


Just 2 cents from another C9 owner on HP use- I have found similar results on high sensitivity HPs like the Audeze’s but don’t expect amazing results from low sensitivity like Susvara’s. Power in high gain is probably enough to listen but you’ll do better with a desktop setup with higher  wattage for those. Arya is just fine, very good indeed in fact.


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## Ieonasj

hello,im new in audio.what portable dac/amp to buy for my audeze lcd-2c connect to laptop listen music.? need with mqa decoding, balanced 4.4mm output,6.35mm uotput,small size ,maybe powered from laptop via usb-c.  in price 100-350eur


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## 111MilesToGo (Today at 12:24 AM)

Ieonasj said:


> hello,im new in audio.what portable dac/amp to buy for my audeze lcd-2c connect to laptop listen music.? need with mqa decoding, balanced 4.4mm output,6.35mm uotput,small size ,maybe powered from laptop via usb-c.  in price 100-350eur


Hello here, I am somewhat afraid that the class and demands (power) of your lcd-2c is in contradiction to the (price) class you imagine for your DAC/Amp. My feeling is you might be better off widening your search. Consider a used device, too.


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## Ieonasj

111MilesToGo said:


> Hello here, I am somewhat afraid that the class and demands (power) of your lcd-2c is in contradiction to the (price) class you imagine for your DAC/Amp. My feeling is you might be better off widening your search. Consider a used device, too.


ibasso DC06 works? it has mqa decoder and 300mW output baklanced. lcd-2c needs 100-250mW output on spec shows.


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## 111MilesToGo (Today at 2:52 AM)

Ieonasj said:


> ibasso DC06 works? it has mqa decoder and 300mW output baklanced. lcd-2c needs 100-250mW output on spec shows.


Well, please take my opinion with a pinch of salt at least. I was just reflecting conventional wisdom about planar magnetic headphones. I have no personal experience with Audeze‘s; except that they were not my cup of tea at an audition (but that‘s irrelevant here).

But, looking at the specs and taking them face value:

The LCD-2C has 70 Ohms impedance. The Audeze website (switches to German automatically) says ”minimum power >100 mW“ and ”recommended power >250 mW“. Keep in mind: Into 70 Ohms!

The iBasso DC06 is a dongle DAC, with specified power output of 320 mW into 32 Ohms balanced. EDIT: It seems it is intended mostly for IEMs with typical impedances somewhere <=32 Ohms.

Just from these numbers I figure the DC06 won‘t drive the LCD-2C to satisfaction. Probably others here will know better!

Again, I tend to think of devices in classes. To my feeling, Audeze planar magnetics belong into desktop-type territory, but minimum at the diffuse borderline between desktop and (trans)portable.

Sorry for not being able to help more. My personal experience with underpowering headphones is that (1) you manage to get them loud enough in general, but (2) you will realize that you lose quite some dynamics and effortlessness.


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## Ieonasj

111MilesToGo said:


> Well, please take my opinion with a pinch of salt at least. I was just reflecting conventional wisdom about planar magnetic headphones. I have no personal experience with Audeze‘s; except that they were not my cup of tea at an audition (but that‘s irrelevant here).
> 
> But, looking at the specs and taking them face value:
> 
> ...


does i need better amp with 6.35 output for my audeze then use adapter to 4.4 balanced?


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## Spawn300Z

loudywen said:


> If I want to do this: *DAP+Hugo2+C9,* which port I should use on Hugo2 to connect to C9? Can I just use a 3.5 to 3.5 cable plug into the 3.5 jack on Hugo2 and the other end of the 3.5 connect to the C9 3.5 input?






I’ve used the 3.5mm to 3.5mm but I feel the best results come from RCA to 3.5mm from the H2 to C9. Currently listening to it will cruising. Good luck


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## 111MilesToGo

@Ieonasj, here is an idea to look at: The Chord Mojo2 DAC/Amp. It is out of your price range, but maybe consider used. It is not capable of MQA, but maybe consider other streaming services (Qobuz of course …). Actually, you should ask on the Mojo2 and Audeze LCD-2C threads here whether combining them works for starters. Just a wild guess of mine to come up with a positive feedback.


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## IgeNeLL

Spawn300Z said:


> I’ve used the 3.5mm to 3.5mm but I feel the best results come from RCA to 3.5mm from the H2 to C9. Currently listening to it will cruising. Good luck


The output RCA is better than 3.5 when connecting to C9. But C9 result better when 3.5 => 3.5 than 3.5 to 4.4 (the converting from SE to BAL result in high noise ratio)


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## Spawn300Z

IgeNeLL said:


> The output RCA is better than 3.5 when connecting to C9. But C9 result better when 3.5 => 3.5 than 3.5 to 4.4 (the converting from SE to BAL result in high noise ratio)


So far it was fine. But will see. I thought about RCA to 4.4mm but didn’t think it would work right since the H2 is single ended


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