# World's Best IC for $130 or less



## KR...

So what is it in your humble opinion?

 You can also suggest USED IC's that normal go for $130 or less.

 Of course, please ONLY suggest IC's that you actually HEARD YOURSELF.

 Thanks!

 Hopefully this thread can be helpful not only to me but also to everyone else looking for great IC's for a reasonable price.


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## fr4c

i would say Zu Cables. they can be had for less on ebay through manufacturer promotions.


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## ReasonablyLucid

www.headphile.com
 The blackcoral or blacksliver (depending on your metal preference) are good


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## Gopher

Grover Silver Reference MK IIs are fabulous. They really do everything well and were the best interconnect I'd ever heard (and I've heard a handfull of much more expensive ones) prior to the Empresses. I still have a couple pairs of SR IIs in my big rig, come to think of it. I've got a pair going from my phonostage to my preamp (tried Empress Phono --> Phonostage --> Empress --> linestage, and prefered having SR II in second position) and I also have a pair between my preamp and monoblocks. I have a hard time imagining anything preforming better at the pricepoint.


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## Salt Peanuts

Audiogeek Nitrogen or Headphile XRS. XRS is bit treble heavy, so you have to match them carefully.


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## bhd812

after a long time using monster cable interlink ref2's from my nad to my hr2, I went out and bought mit term3's.

 I noticed a change rite off the bat, imaging came out more then ever and the bass cleared up alot.

 best $40 I ever spent, so good that if I would of done this upgrade before I probably wouldnt have a g08 coming in now...


 well it was the best $40 that went into my setup as of yet.


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## NotoriousBIG_PJ

If you want neutrality/transparency, go for the grover reference mkII. If you want something smoother and with more warmth, win an auction on some aural thrills beryillum copper ic's. Each cable is very fast and detailed, with a large and focused sound stage. If you want something with a softer/sweeter sound, get a cable that uses the gold tri-alloy wire, thought I find the highs of the tri-alloy cables to not be as good as the other two cables.

 Biggie.


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## tiberian

audiogeek nitrogens...or DIY.


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## MagusG

Audiogeek Nitrogens
 -Mag


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## saint.panda

I have a "Music Timbre" tri-alloy cable (gold, copper, silver) from Northwest Enterprise, which, I believe, is not produced anymore. The sound is smooth yet quite articulate in the highs and more detailed than my previous Boldercables M-80 (MSRP $125), which also bordered on bright in the lower and mid highs in my system. I think this is a good example of how brightness is not to be set equal with detailing. 
 I bought the tri-alloy for around $130 used and similar cables could be found on Audiogon for around the same price or a little bit more. For example, there was a used Aural Thrills tri-alloy cable that went for 125 shipped on Audiogon. I was quite sceptical about alloy cables in the beginning but really like its sound by now. Not sure if it's neutral but then again, what is neutral?
 I'm also interested in getting one of those Aural Thrills active cables one day, maybe the active Palladium version, which according to the guys at Aural Thrills is their most neutral sounding one...

 Another cable, which I liked was the cable Jan from Meier-Audio makes. At that time I was only able to compare it to my Oehlbach NF2 but the differences were quite apparent (i.e. in the context of differences between cables). And it has better build quality than most cables I have tested (including my tri-alloy cable).

 In any case, I don't know if these are the best cables around but they might be worth a look.


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## gloco

This thread has definitely been helpful as i am in the market for some new IC's, thanks to everyone and especially KR... .


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## Illah

The best I've heard for that money are the one's I've built myself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 --Illah


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## cpw

I've bought several at the $150 point used. If that counts and you can stretch/be patient, I can heartily recommend the Harmonic Technology Truthlink, the Acoustic Zen WOW and the DiMarzio MPath. I also have Tributaries silver which are good but maybe not on the same level as the others mentioned. I'd be really hard pressed to pick a favorite among the 1st three; Acoustic Zen might sound best but are also the least flexible and, frankly, a bit of a pain in tight quarters. I really like the HT and DM alot as well.
 Hope that's useful info.
 Found all of mine on Audiogon but bought the DiMarzios new from Todd.
 CPW


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## zdogg

I'm digging my Signalcable Silver Resolution IC's; very detailed, excellent soundstage. On sale right now for $139 new (2 foot length I think). Not much to look at though, but sound fantastic.


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## skullguise

I like the Aural Thrills & Grovers that were mentioned. I haven't heard the Headphile or Nitrogens, but they have gotten a lot of good press.

 A recent purchase I got that I liked a lot was the Silent Audio Apollo-A ribbons, got them cheap on A'gon auction. Big, spacious soundstage, smooth response top to bottom, incredible instrument separation (that sense of space within the soundstage), and nicely detailed. Only compared to my favorite Tritium UHF Gold's (at 6 times the cost) do they lack some element of transparency and musicality.

 Another recommedation, but they stretch the $ a little bit, and you'll not likely find them used: the Ven Haus Pulsars. Incredible all-around performer, does a LOT of things incredibly well.

 Good luck!


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## KR...

Thanks guys!

 How do these compare to something like the Kimber Hero and the lower end Nordost cables like the Black Night, Solar Wind and Blue Heaven?


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## mjg

For a little more money, cardas neutral reference.
 Can't go wrong.


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## eyeteeth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KR...* 
_Of course, please ONLY suggest IC's that you actually HEARD YOURSELF

 How do these compare to something like the Kimber Hero and the lower end Nordost cables like the Black Night, Solar Wind and Blue Heaven?_

 

I had a pair of Blue Heaven for more than a year (sold yesterday matter of fact) and I would describe them as 'clean' sounding, best with warm systems. Speaking of value for the dollar I could not really distinguish them from the cheaper Signal cable's _Analog Two_ with eichmann bullet plug. My Arcam has two pairs of RCA outputs and I had another person connect both the Blue Heaven and Analog Two, jumping back and forth via remote and it was a toss up which I was listening to.

 I think the old established companies like Nordost or Cardas are grossly overcharging. I look to newer upstart companies which sometimes have decades in the wire business, just not the consumer audio cable business.


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## KenW

Another vote for Grover's SR cables here. Nice!


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## Jose Perez

Check out heartlandcables on ebay. The sell some nice looking IC's using Eichmann Bullet plugs and Belden 89259 cable. Both of which are very popular in the DIY scene for good reason. the sell the 1.0m cables for under $50 and I doubt you could purchse the supplies for these for that, let alone build them and market them. Just an option.


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## DarkAngel

I think everyone knows I am big fan of *Grover SR II * $125 pair, so good for so little money I could live with these and never worry about future cable upgrades. (money better spent elsewhere in system)

 As fas as Kimber Hero, I had some of these 5+ years ago and have gone through several ugrades since then......there are better ICs for same price like Grovers.


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## Jam_Master_J

DIY! 

 You can make something very nice for a fraction of your budget. For example, I used Home-Grown Audio connectors and Canare Starquad cable for my main set. Now I have a bunch of 20 AWG sliver-plated wire which I intend to match with some Eichmann Bullets to make an even better cable (I need a longer cable for my new listening area).


 Edit: Forgot about one of the rules.


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## jpr703

I just ordered a custom cable from Grover. Can't wait to try it out!


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## bundee1

Im surprised no one has mentioned VH Audio's Pulsars. Very well reviewed by all who have purchased them, this guys products almost never show up on the used market. I love them. They have a very clean, airy sound with tight bass. At first listen I was surprised at the seperation of instruments and soundstage depth. Check them out, this guy is a pleasure to deal with.


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## tiberian

pulsars are probably a bit out of budget.


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## gurus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tiberian* 
_pulsars are probably a bit out of budget._

 

Unless you DIY. WBT midline connectors 16x4=$64 . Pulsar Wire 6x4.99=$29.94
 Other stuff- about $5. 
 You can even go upto the WBT Nextgen (cu) connectors, $105 for 4 and its just a bit over your budget.


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## Slow_aetk

What about the Wireworld Equinox 5? Anyone got to try them?


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## Snake

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *NotoriousBIG_PJ* 
_If you want neutrality/transparency, go for the grover reference mkII. If you want something smoother and with more warmth, win an auction on some aural thrills beryillum copper ic's. Each cable is very fast and detailed, with a large and focused sound stage. If you want something with a softer/sweeter sound, get a cable that uses the gold tri-alloy wire, thought I find the highs of the tri-alloy cables to not be as good as the other two cables._

 

Biggie, any cables you listen to lately reject hum well?? Triple shielded seems to be a requirement in my home, AKA Hum Central.

 Thanks


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## bundee1

Synergistic Research cables are warm yet detailed. I think they are silver plated copper. I liked them but while I was switching components they no longer matched my system. Get them used for $100 and you wont be sorry.


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## e_dawg

Has anyone compared the Belden 89259 based cables to the Grover, Bogdan, Headphile, Nitrogen, vdH, etc.?


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## eyeteeth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* 
_Synergistic Research cables are warm yet detailed. I think they are silver plated copper. I liked them but while I was switching components they no longer matched my system. Get them used for $100 and you wont be sorry._

 

Supposedly challenging the very best, most expensive, it is the 2004 TAS IC of the year I believe.


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## bundee1

You are correct sir.


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## xtreme4099

'nother vote for audiogeek nitrogens!


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## djbnh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* 
_Im surprised no one has mentioned VH Audio's Pulsars. Very well reviewed by all who have purchased them, this guys products almost never show up on the used market. I love them. They have a very clean, airy sound with tight bass. At first listen I was surprised at the seperation of instruments and soundstage depth. Check them out, this guy is a pleasure to deal with._

 

I have found that Chris VenHaus makes products that defie conventional price/performance ratios. His PCs and other products rock. It is also a rarity to deal with such a gentleman, much less his 30-day guarantee. I have no idea how one could approach/match the price + performance of his VH Pulsars, unless one was to use one of Chris' DIY designs in concert with his cotton insulated fine silver wire.


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## tone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *skullguise* 
_A recent purchase I got that I liked a lot was the Silent Audio Apollo-A ribbons, got them cheap on A'gon auction. Big, spacious soundstage, smooth response top to bottom, incredible instrument separation (that sense of space within the soundstage), and nicely detailed. _

 

I just got some silent audio apollo intereconnects as well (cheap via audiogon) and they are a significant upgrade over my old outlaw interconnects. sonically i have the same impression to the cable as skullguise but unfortunately the build quality is so-so and the guy took a month and a half to get the cables to me. if you are willing to wait they are great cables for the price (via audiogon).


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## mjg

i'd like to add that signal cable analog v2's are so great for the $50 dollar minium price (per 2 foot).

 I just got a set for my dad for his headphone setup, and wow, they have such a good build quality, and a very warm, rich, detailed sound for not alot at all!
 I'd compare them to cables that i've known to be double, or triple the price, no joke.


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## KR...

I can't find Grover cables on ebay or audiogon, nor their website with google.


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## eyeteeth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KR...* 
_I can't find Grover cables on ebay or audiogon, nor their website with google.




_

 

Satisfied customers? I think the maker still can make the older pre-Empress ones you're thinking of. Try the personal touch? Ask him how much for a new pair of the older model. Or maybe he could even put you in touch with a previous customer willing to sell a pair not being used at the time?

 Did you decide upon a CDP?


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## Soundbuff

I have an Audiogeek Nitrogen IC (copper?) and a Blue Dragon HD 650 replacement cable (copper).

 Currently the system has a little too much bass and not enough midrange detail or air for my liking on certain recordings.

 I'd like to experiment with other IC's to see if they might de-emphasize the bass a little and add some air.

 Would the Grover Silver Reference II do that? Any other recommendations?


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## KR...

The Grover Silver Reference II are no longer being made


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## eyeteeth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KR...* 
_The Grover Silver Reference II are no longer being made 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You e-mailed Grover and he said he would not make another pair?


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## KR...

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *eyeteeth* 
_You e-mailed Grover and he said he would not make another pair?_

 

I e-mailed them but I haven't heard anything back just yet.

 It is not however listed on their website :

http://grover.wolff.home.comcast.net/


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## eyeteeth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KR...* 
_I e-mailed them but I haven't heard anything back just yet.

 It is not however listed on their website :

http://grover.wolff.home.comcast.net/_

 

I'd wait to hear a "no". It's just that I recall somewhere someone saying the older model can still be had, made new despite the emergence of the Empress. I believe I read it at a forum other than Head-fi. A search here isn't turning up anything.


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## Gord SW Ont

Did you use the following email address for Grover? It is the one I've used and he usually is very good at communicating.

groverhuffman@hotmail.com

 Also per the website:

www.stevehoffman.tv/forums ... in the "Audio Hardware" forum there is a sticky at the top where info on Grovers SR MK II interconnects is discussed. Last I heard he was still producing them.

 I agree with eyeteeth that you should wait for a reply (and/or try the above email address).

 Good luck ... Gord SW Ont.


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## KR...

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gord SW Ont* 
_Did you use the following email address for Grover? It is the one I've used and he usually is very good at communicating.

groverhuffman@hotmail.com

 Also per the website:

www.stevehoffman.tv/forums ... in the "Audio Hardware" forum there is a sticky at the top where info on Grovers SR MK II interconnects is discussed. Last I heard he was still producing them.

 I agree with eyeteeth that you should wait for a reply (and/or try the above email address).

 Good luck ... Gord SW Ont._

 


 Thanks I sent another e-mail to that address.


  Quote:


 I'd wait to hear a "no". It's just that I recall somewhere someone saying the older model can still be had, made new despite the emergence of the Empress. I believe I read it at a forum other than Head-fi. A search here isn't turning up anything. 
 

Will do, please note that I sent it out today, so I would be suprised if he e-mailed right back.


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## bundee1

For increased air and transparency try the Pulsars I mentioned before. Check Audiogon and Audioasylum for reviews.


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## Aman

May I suggest DiMarzio interconnects?


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## mattigol

my first post on the cable forum iirc. 

 I´d like to know how much a pair of grover silver reference ic´s costs? 

 cheers m


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## Gord SW Ont

Quote:


 I´d like to know how much a pair of grover silver reference ic´s costs? 
 

I believe it's $125 for a .5 m interconnect (and $130 for a 1 m IC) for the latest SR MK II version.


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## DarkAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gord SW Ont* 
_Did you use the following email address for Grover? It is the one I've used and he usually is very good at communicating.

groverhuffman@hotmail.com

 Also per the website:

www.stevehoffman.tv/forums ... in the "Audio Hardware" forum there is a sticky at the top where info on Grovers SR MK II interconnects is discussed. Last I heard he was still producing them.

 I agree with eyeteeth that you should wait for a reply (and/or try the above email address).

 Good luck ... Gord SW Ont._

 

Yes use Grover's own e-mail address to buy his cables, several people here purchased SR II in last couple months so I assume they are still available.


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## pigmode

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *e_dawg* 
_Has anyone compared the Belden 89259 based cables to the Grover, Bogdan, Headphile, Nitrogen, vdH, etc.?_

 

I havn't made direct comparisons but my experience with 89259 is they are not even in the same league as Grovers. Just go with Grovers--why take a chance?


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## NotoriousBIG_PJ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pigmode* 
_I havn't made direct comparisons but my experience with 89259 is they are not even in the same league as Grovers. Just go with Grovers--why take a chance?_

 

Agreed. I have a pair of diy 89259's collecting dust.

 Biggie.


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## Gopher

trippled. I can't imagine interconnects getiting better then the SR IIs for anywhere near $130.


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## IpodSF

CablePro's mini to minis are pheneomenal! Hands down my vote is for CablePro.


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## LopeDogg

wow, first time i used monster cable i was really shocked, and impressed.
 i wonder when i should upgrade my ICs...
 probably a good idea to upgrade soundcards first, and get a sub.


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## Soundbuff

Grover informed me through e-mail that the Grover Silver Reference MK II's are STILL AVAILABLE for purchase.

 0.5 meter $110
 1.0 meter $125
 2.0 meter $150

 plus $5 for shipping.

 You can contact/Paypal him at groverhuffman@hotmail.com

 I'm still waiting to hear if he allows a trial period with a refund or if he has a loaner pair for trying them out before buying.


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## Gopher

soundbuff. He does--it's either 30 or 60 days. You won't be returning them though


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## ru4music

Two great cables that I use are:

 Black Mountain Cable Pinnacle Golds. They list for $1,200 but I got them for $125 on a Audiogon.com auction.
http://www.blackmountaincable.com/

 Signal Cable Silver Resolution ICs. On sale for $139.
http://signalcable.com/silverresolutionanalog.html


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## Soundbuff

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Soundbuff* 
_I'm still waiting to hear if he allows a trial period with a refund or if he has a loaner pair for trying them out before buying._

 

Grover informed me that there is a 60 day trial period for the Silver Reference MK II's.


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## DarkAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Soundbuff* 
_Grover informed me through e-mail that the Grover Silver Reference MK II's are STILL AVAILABLE for purchase.

 0.5 meter $110
 1.0 meter $125
 2.0 meter $150

 plus $5 for shipping.

 You can contact/Paypal him at groverhuffman@hotmail.com_

 

It is much easier now if Grover has *paypal* account........I purchased all cables from him through standard mail and checks in past, told him he really should get paypal account set up.


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## MonkeyMan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KR...* 
_Hopefully this thread can be helpful not only to me but also to everyone else looking for great IC's for a reasonable price._

 

Why not spend just $65 more and get the Cardas Neutral Reference? There are LOTS of them around for $195 shipping included. This cable is EXACTLY what its name says: "Neutral" and "Reference." 

 Disclaimer: I do not believe in using cables as tone controls.


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## gloco

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MonkeyMan* 
_Why not spend just $65 more and get the Cardas Neutral Reference? There are LOTS of them around for $195 shipping included. This cable is EXACTLY what its name says: "Neutral" and "Reference." 

 Disclaimer: I do not believe in using cables as tone controls._

 

I picked up a pair of Cardas Neutral reference for $200 on audigon after reading this thread, since i did need a fancy IC for my HE60's+cd-25. So far, so good.


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## Soundbuff

Bought Elnero's Active Golds! Hope they will be amazing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Can anyone tell me how the Aural Thrills Beryllium Copper compares to the Audiogeek Nitrogen?

 How do they compare to each other? Is one better? Also, is $175 too high a price to pay for an Aural Thrills Beryllium Copper or is that a fair price? 

 A pair is available on Audiogon and I'm thinking about it but not sure yet.

 Thanks.


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## e_dawg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pigmode* 
_I havn't made direct comparisons but my experience with 89259 is they are not even in the same league as Grovers. Just go with Grovers--why take a chance?_

 

Why take a chance? Well, piggie and Biggie, that's why I'm asking you guys, so I don't have to take that chance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Lots of IC's that get rave reviews are rebadged Belden or Canare cables. For example, some people mentioned the SignalCable Analog Two, which is a thinly disguised 89259, and the highly praised nitrogens are based on yet another cable TV coax. I wouldn't be surprised if one of those Belden coax based designs could take on one of the big guys and win. 

 For the price, an 89259 based Heartland cable / Bluejeans cable / SignalCable / Copycat cables / DIYaudio IC for $40-50 is an undeniable value compared to all that Monster and Audioquest crap. I'm trying to find out whether tripling the price (for the Grover SRII, for example) is worth the scratch. From both of your comments, it seems like it is. I was hoping that more people had tried the famous 89259 against some big name cables.

 Just to give you an idea where I am coming from, I just spent $229 on a Zu Mobius cable, and while I admit that it has made a noticeable improvement to the sound, I really don't feel that it was worth $229... if only there was as much of a 89259/DIY type market for headphone cables! (I know, headphile offers something around $130, but there isn't much selection being the only "DIY cottage industry" offering, and I was looking for something under $100)


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## krafty

Just for a fyi, I mixed in a 89259 cable (made with good Cardas connectors) in with a bunch of ~$250 cables I was demoing. The 89259 cable was not in shame in this company. Yes, it is not the best in all areas and may not push everyones buttons, but there it was sounding quite well in this company. For under $100, this is definately worth a listen. I would recommend the Cardas ends (DIYCable.com or Element Cable) - some may say Bullets, but I haven't heard them.


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## NotoriousBIG_PJ

I thought the 89259 w/ cardas slvr connectors sounded about 80-90% as good as cardas neutral refs. CNR's highs were the main difference I found. The 3 cables I mentioned earlier in the thread easily surpass either cable.

 Biggie.


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## Gopher

FYI Guys, I'm going to be auditioning 2 pairs of newcommer cables with a lot of potential: one of which will fall into this price point and expededly make a big splash.

 I'll keep you guys posted.


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## jpr703

I recently got some new Grover Ultimate Reference Cables and they are hands down the best cables I've ever listened (or should I say not listened) to. Extremely neutral, extremely clean. They're ugly as sin but extremely flexible and the sound is fantastic.


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## greenhorn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *e_dawg* 
_ the highly praised nitrogens are based on yet another cable TV coax_

 

Please give more details. Did you cut a Nitrogen cable yourself, or is it just a guess based on the stiffness of the Nitrogens?


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## e_dawg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *greenhorn* 
_Please give more details. Did you cut a Nitrogen cable yourself, or is it just a guess based on the stiffness of the Nitrogens?_

 

It is an educated guess. Think of the stiffness, the thickness, and take a look at Eric's webpage. All the specs smack of microwave or broadcast CATV coax cable. No way you can get the precision impedance, 88% propagation velocity, and full shielding without using that type of coax that is designed specifically with regard to transmission line principles and high frequency signal integrity. And besides, why else would Eric blather on about microwave design and show off his TDR scope? He certainly ain't using twisted pair CAT5.


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## eric343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *e_dawg* 
_Why take a chance? Well, piggie and Biggie, that's why I'm asking you guys, so I don't have to take that chance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Lots of IC's that get rave reviews are rebadged Belden or Canare cables. For example, some people mentioned the SignalCable Analog Two, which is a thinly disguised 89259, and the highly praised nitrogens are based on yet another cable TV coax. I wouldn't be surprised if one of those Belden coax based designs could take on one of the big guys and win._

 

Belden coax is good stuff, especially for the <$100 range.

 That said, the Nitrogens (which I manufacture) are NOT "cable TV coax!" Cable TV coax is either RG58 (mostly for short-run use) or solid-shield (read: encased in aluminum tube and nearly impossible to bend) long haul stuff. The Nitrogens use microwave-optimized low-loss RF cable that you might find on an antenna mast somewhere -- but I rather doubt it would come with your cable-TV set top box.


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## e_dawg

Indeed, Eric. No, you misunderstood me. Or perhaps I am using the wrong terminology. I did mean microwave / broadcast CATV cable as in the stuff they would use to send gigabytes of video data in the gigahertz frequency range between network stations, satellite towers, etc. Not home-use RG-6 or RG-59 crap.


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## e_dawg

... should clarify that my point was that there are many well-regarded cables that use standard bulk coax cable, including the Nitrogens, which, while they don't use the standard home-use coax, they do use (microwave quality) bulk coax, not some esoteric hyper-litz OFC 99.99999999% copper-silver-gold tri-alloy quad field geometry golden ratio spiritual guru blessed design selling for $800 a pair. You can have a good sounding cable based on bulk coax!


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## eric343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *e_dawg* 
_You can have a good sounding cable based on bulk coax!_

 


 Yep.

 (Admittedly, the ProSink helps a lot. The raw Nitrogen stock sounds very unnatural without it; to the point that I initially rejected it out of hand and went with stiffer stuff for the Halogens. [this was before ProSink] The sheer volume of complaints regarding the ultra-stiff Halogens led me to reconsider the Nitrogen stock for my next cable, where I discovered that the ProSink makes the stuff sound seriously sweet! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


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## eric343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *e_dawg* 
_...they do use (microwave quality) bulk coax, not some esoteric hyper-litz OFC 99.99999999% copper-silver-gold tri-alloy quad field geometry golden ratio spiritual guru blessed design selling for $800 a pair.\_

 

Don't worry, E-H-L-O-C-S-G-T-A-Q-F-G-R-S-G-B-D-$800 cable addicts, if there's a way to make or buy 'guru' cable with a constant impedance, I'll find it and sell it for $750 a pair


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## mattigol

Hi there,

 I am new to the whole cable terminology so please bear with me on this one: Someone above mentioned the use of Cat 5 cable. Is it conceivable that a cable paired with good connectors and well soldered will sound as good or better than the Belden coax? Or is it by design going to be of lesser quality?

 Thanks!

 Matthias


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## e_dawg

It is conceivable that CAT5 could sound as good as a Belden coax... Kimber PBJ is similar construction (?) and it is a decent budget IC. Headphile uses an unshielded twisted pair configuration, although they do not use standard CAT5 cable.

 From a cable design standpoint, I can think of a couple relevant technical differences off the top of my head: (1) impedance may not be as constant as a good coax, which is known to affect the integrity of very high frequency signals (i.e., > 1 MHz). How that affects audio frequencies is up for debate; (2) instead of the coaxial shielding which is found in coax, unshielded CAT5 uses the twisted pair configuration to prevent EMI pickup.


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## 10068

Am I the only person on HeadFi that thinks having an UNSHIELDED interconnect is preposterous? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 That's like running your multi-thousand-dollar HiFi rig straight from the wall socket!

 For example, the Headphile XRS is bare wire, which means it's going to just soak up EMI/RMI like nobody's business, at least in theory. I don't understand how non-shielded "audiophile" cables (especially those used in computer rigs) can get rave reviews.

 /me is at a loss.

 EDIT: i'm not bashing Larry or his XRS cables, just using them as a point of argument, because some have commented on them as being sibilant, bright and/or "lifeless", and I wonder if this is at least partially subject to the lack of shielding.


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## tiberian

well my homebrew silver ICs, power cords and silver dragon are unshielded aswell...
 don't have any noise problem currently (in fact treble is clearer than ever), i start to wonder if shielding has anything to do with treble roll-off...


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## 10068

Personally I wouldn't mind some rolled-off treble now and then. Anything past about 16Khz gives me headaches and fatigue in most configurations.


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## e_dawg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sduibek* 
_Am I the only person on HeadFi that thinks having an UNSHIELDED interconnect is preposterous?_

 

Well, if you are talking about a straight, unshielded wire, no that is not recommended. But... (see below)

  Quote:


 For example, the Headphile XRS is bare wire, which means it's going to just soak up EMI/RMI like nobody's business, at least in theory. I don't understand how non-shielded "audiophile" cables (especially those used in computer rigs) can get rave reviews. 
 

Headphile interconnects are unshielded twisted pair (UTP), which rejects a good deal of EMI and RFI without the need for shielding. I would still rather have a copper braided + foil shielded coax instead, but UTP is fine unless you distinctly have EMI/RFI problems.

 Shielding/no shielding doesn't necessarily change the treble.


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## tiberian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *e_dawg* 
_Well, if you are talking about a straight, unshielded wire, no that is not recommended. But... (see below)



 Headphile interconnects are unshielded twisted pair (UTP), which rejects a good deal of EMI and RFI without the need for shielding. I would still rather have a copper braided + foil shielded coax instead, but UTP is fine unless you distinctly have EMI/RFI problems.

 Shielding/no shielding doesn't necessarily change the treble._

 

then it must be the power conditioner.


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