# Power Plant Premier or Nordost Thor?



## Patrick82

It will replace my Ultimate Outlet between wall and P300 Power Plant.

 Bang for buck guy doesn't buy new, I will tweak it to pieces anyway. Buying Thor used would be cheaper. Then I can get Premier used a year later. So eventually it would be: Thor -> Premier -> P300.

 Distributor hasn't responded to my e-mail about Premier so I guess I take it as a sign and get Thor instead then? It's going to save me electricity too, I need to plug computer into something, with the Premier it is 15% extra watts, but with Thor I can't demagnetize computer.

 4 days left until the $200 cheaper introductory offer expires. What to do?


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## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* 
_It will replace my Ultimate Outlet between wall and P300 Power Plant.

 Bang for buck guy doesn't buy new, I will tweak it to pieces anyway. Buying Thor used would be cheaper. Then I can get Premier used a year later. So eventually it would be: Thor -> Premier -> P300.

 Distributor hasn't responded to my e-mail about Premier so I guess I take it as a sign and get Thor instead then? It's going to save me electricity too, I need to plug computer into something, with the Premier it is 15% extra watts, but with Thor I can't demagnetize computer.

 4 days left until the $200 cheaper introductory offer expires. What to do?_

 

The Nordost is made by another company called isotek. So i suggest to get an isotek instead, wich might be even cheaper then the Nordost Thor.

 This one seems also a very good one:
 shunyata hydra 8

 • 8 Shunyata Venom Silver outlets
 • “Trident Defense System”
 • 2400 watts @ 20 amps continuous
 • Surge protection (40,000A)
 • Four individual, isolated circuits
 • 16 element Venom Noise Filter
 • Massive CDA-101 buss bars
 • FeSi-1000 noise-reduction compound
 • Detachable 20A inlet
 • Aluminum chassis 

 Not cheap though Way over 2000 euro's
 And the PS audio powerplants 300, 500 and 1000 watts.


 Best bang for the buck would be the G&W powerplant at www.ornec.com
 according to people who have tested both, it does the same thing as the 8 times more expensive isotek.

 You have to try them out in your system, some amps filter themselfs and don't improve by using a powerplant or conditioner! They get even worse!


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## Patrick82

The silver plated circuit board paths is what I need. But I don't need the internal Valhalla wiring because I will use my own and bypass them anyway. It feels bad to pay for something I don't need.
 I have all my Valhallas hardwired into P300 with everything bypassed.

 Then I have the 3rd option; keep the Ultimate Outlet and not buy anything more. Maybe I will get used to the background noise eventually. I could of course unmod my Valhallas to the original fatness to hide the noise and bring back the fake black background, but I don't want to remove all the detail I have gained from modding them.


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## BrianS

i am planning on getting the premier, but after the discount


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## tourmaline

The PS audio premier looks really nice. The Nordost thor is made by isotek, so two different products and visions. Wich one is best, i dunno, both have good reputation. Only your ears can tell in your own setup!

 Don't rule out the shunyata hydra 8 yet, it suppose to be realy good!


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## Scrith

Another vote for the Premier here. I'll probably order one myself. This is what these guys do best, and they've been doing it for years. This is probably the best power re-generator ever made. The feature set is impressive and, if you really don't like it, you'll probably be able to sell it on Audiogon for almost as much as you paid (if you get the discounted price).


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* 
_Distributor hasn't responded to my e-mail about Premier so I guess I take it as a sign and get Thor instead then?_

 

Ok after 8 days, they responded 4 hours after I wrote that, coincidence?They are reading this forum! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It seems like Premier is the way to go then. Or maybe some Noise Harvesters will make the background black enough that music becomes listenable with my modded cables. I removed some detail so there's no problem now, but I miss it too much.

 This autumn is crazy, everything is released at once. 1080p projectors, HD-DVD, Blu-Ray, new Stewart Firehawk screen, Geforce 8800gtx, Windows Vista, Playstation 3, 1080p harddrive camcorders, Slimdevices Transporter, Tara Labs Zero, Noise Harvesters, Premier. OMG so much! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No wonder they put the introductory offer!


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## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* 
_Ok after 8 days, they responded 4 hours after I wrote that, coincidence?They are reading this forum! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It seems like Premier is the way to go then. Or maybe some Noise Harvesters will make the background black enough that music becomes listenable with my modded cables. I removed some detail so there's no problem now, but I miss it too much.

 This autumn is crazy, everything is released at once. 1080p projectors, HD-DVD, Blu-Ray, new Stewart Firehawk screen, Geforce 8800gtx, Windows Vista, Playstation 3, 1080p harddrive camcorders, Slimdevices Transporter, Tara Labs Zero, Noise Harvesters, Premier. OMG so much! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No wonder they put the introductory offer!_

 

No one said you have to buy all these at once.


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## Patrick82

Uh, just when I thought I made up my mind I get newsletter from highend-broker selling a used Nordost Thor, fate or coincidence? They are watching this forum! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If I can't decide I usually choose the one that saves me most money in the long run. Putting Premier in the path instead of Thor would boost up my electricity bill with 80 watts or so. Listening to music when seeing electricity bill getting boosted up is no good... But the reason I want Premier in the first place is so I don't need to use the P300 step-up transformer with my 230volt Cary transport.

 Replacing P300 with Premier is going to save me electricity, but it doesn't work in my setup unless I buy 3 meter Valhalla power cord for my computer, and those can't be found used.

 So it's going to be bad no matter what I do. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have spent weeks planning and every choice leads to a dead-end. I need to find the "invisible door" somewhere... I guess I just need to wait until I can see it.


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## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* 
_Uh, just when I thought I made up my mind I get newsletter from highend-broker selling a used Nordost Thor, fate or coincidence? They are watching this forum! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If I can't decide I usually choose the one that saves me most money in the long run. Putting Premier in the path instead of Thor would boost up my electricity bill with 80 watts or so. Listening to music when seeing electricity bill getting boosted up is no good... But the reason I want Premier in the first place is so I don't need to use the P300 step-up transformer with my 230volt Cary transport.

 Replacing P300 with Premier is going to save me electricity, but it doesn't work in my setup unless I buy 3 meter Valhalla power cord for my computer, and those can't be found used.

 So it's going to be bad no matter what I do. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have spent weeks planning and every choice leads to a dead-end. I need to find the "invisible door" somewhere... I guess I just need to wait until I can see it._

 


 If you're concerned about your electricity bill, you shouldn't look at active filters like the thor and premier. Since these act like a class a amp, they draw plenty of power, passive filters however don't or way, way less.

 Strange to hear from somebody that spends so much on cables and equipment and whining about a bit of electricity. Some power amps draw 3000 watts!

 I concur however that the reference series of Nordost are one of the best cables around!


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* 
_Strange to hear from somebody that spends so much on cables and equipment and whining about a bit of electricity. Some power amps draw 3000 watts!_

 

Electricity is important because I will keep the same system my whole life.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* 
_I concur however that the reference series of Nordost are one of the best cables around!_

 

Nordost Valhalla cures upgraditis! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* 
_I have spent weeks planning and every choice leads to a dead-end. I need to find the "invisible door" somewhere... I guess I just need to wait until I can see it._

 

I found the door. Partsconnexion had a 15% summer sale that ended 30th september, I bought some ERS paper and got a $84 discount, 32 sheets may not be enough for my whole system but it's better than nothing. 
 Hopefully that will take care of some background noise. Even if it doesn't I don't care, because it already sounds good now. For the first time my system sounds acceptable. My previous tweak was hardwiring Valhallas into P300 Power Plant.


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## Patrick82

Yesterday I dreamt of PS Audio Noise Harvesters blinking in my room. So I will get a few of those.
 A week ago I dreamt of a new power conditioner by PS Audio. Yesterday I dreamt of it again. It didn't look like Premier though.

 I will wait until someone sells them used, bang for buck bum doesn't buy new.


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## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* 
_Yesterday I dreamt of PS Audio Noise Harvesters blinking in my room. So I will get a few of those.
 A week ago I dreamt of a new power conditioner by PS Audio. Yesterday I dreamt of it again. It didn't look like Premier though.

 I will wait until someone sells them used, bang for buck bum doesn't buy new. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

yup, second hand, the money/value is much higher. Let somebody else pay the premium.


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## Sovkiller




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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sovkiller* 
_I thought that you were happy with your system the way it was. According to you, all the gear that you tried after you purchased the Valhalla power cords sounded the same anyway. Why bother to keep on upgrading? According to that crtieria they will still sound the same, as all you are hearing is the power cords, right???....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








_

 

You are right. Valhalla power cord is all I care about. After I hardwired the Valhallas it sounds acceptable now. How can it get better than this? If it sounds acceptable I don't need anything better! I think I'm just going to buy 1 Noise Harvester to see if it makes a difference. I'm too poor to gamble on more. But with $30k Valhalla cables there is no gamble, amazing cable, it gave more than I paid for, I should probably quit while I'm ahead. I want to keep my bang for buck system intact!


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## Patrick82

I can't replace P300 with Premier because I NEED MWave4. Premier can only do MWave1.
 With MWave1 the bass is gone and midrange is emphasized but the midrange detail is worse! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			











 I lasted only 5 minutes until I wanted to change back. With MWave4 there is CRAZY BASS and more midrange detail, background is much blacker and everything sounds warmer. It is better in every way. After 10 months of experimentation, the power supply of GCC-100 amp and Benchmark DAC1 work best with MWave4!

 So I need to put Premier between wall and P300. Stacking Premier on top of P300 doesn't seem to work. But I could replace the Ultimate Outlet I have on top with a Duet Power Center. Little better without higher electricity bill... I can live with crappy sound if I save electricity in the process! I need to keep the bang for buck system intact.

 Wrapping my whole system in ERS Paper removed most of the background noise I was complaining about, now my system is listenable again! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can listen for hours without writing "horrible" into my logs, it seems good enough. I haven't found anything about the sound to complain about anymore. I stopped writing into my logs because of no complaints, hmm. I guess my crappy ears will save me some cash then. 
 I don't know what else to buy though. I bought some food but the more I ate the hungrier I got, I ate a bag of chips and it didn't feel good. I like empty burning stomach better, it feels more consistent.

 My goal was to use 1 conductor Valhalla power cords without the background noise. ERS Paper solved that, I guess I'm done then. 
 But it seems like I'm missing something, I don't want to turn into an ignorant skeptic with a crappy system thinking it is good enough.


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## MoxMonkey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* 
_You are right. Valhalla power cord is all I care about. After I hardwired the Valhallas it sounds acceptable now. How can it get better than this? If it sounds acceptable I don't need anything better! I think I'm just going to buy 1 Noise Harvester to see if it makes a difference. I'm too poor to gamble on more. But with $30k Valhalla cables there is no gamble, amazing cable, it gave more than I paid for, I should probably quit while I'm ahead. I want to keep my bang for buck system intact!_

 

bang for buck and $30k cables do not belong together at all...


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MoxMonkey* 
_bang for buck and $30k cables do not belong together at all..._

 

The first Valhalla cable I bought gave most for my money in my system. The 2nd Valhalla gave me more. The more Valhalla I added the bigger the improvements got because less weaknesses were left. The last Valhalla power cord I added gave the biggest improvement because it removed the biggest weakness that was left.


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## Scrith

Based on the great experience I've had with the new Duet (it definitely is a big improvement over their previous components like the Ultimate Outlet and UPC-200), I think they really might be onto something new. I have a Premier on order, so I'll be reporting back as soon as I hear it. By the way, did you hear they came up with yet another improvement to the filtering just before it was about to begin production, which is why it was delayed another month?


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## grandenigma1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* 
_The first Valhalla cable I bought gave most for my money in my system. The 2nd Valhalla gave me more. The more Valhalla I added the bigger the improvements got because less weaknesses were left. The last Valhalla power cord I added gave the biggest improvement because it removed the biggest weakness that was left._

 

Wait so the cable replaced you?


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## Bob_McBob

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grandenigma1* 
_Wait so the cable replaced you?_


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## BrianS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grandenigma1* 
_Wait so the cable replaced you?_

 

ouch. .

 duh, he had to sell his liver and heart, well, yeah, he's dead


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## Patrick82

Ok, I had another dream now. Audio has started leaking into my dreams!

 In my dream I was hearing perfect audio with a blacker background than I have now. So now I need to get the Premier because once you go black you can't go back.

 Does it work better to mix multiple power conditioners than many identical ones?
 I would get Thor and dump some noise into the ground, then Premier to reduce the noise that is left, then P300 for MWAVE4.

 What do you think, Thor+Premier or Premier+Premier?


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## Vul Kuolun

Buy everything.
 Open it with a can opener.
 Bitch it up with large clumps of solder.
 Put radioactive toilet paper in it.


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## Patrick82

OH MY GOD!

 Am I dreaming now? I'm already getting the sound of my dreams now. ERS Paper for my Cary transport did this! Oh my god, how can it sound any blacker than this! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is how I dreamt it! It just keeps getting better and better, the connectors needed weeks of burn-in after unplugging them OMG.

 I'm worried now that jamming the signal path with more power conditioners and longer Valhalla cables will just make it all muddy and I wouldn't hear the increase in blackness anyway.
 I'm thinking of Noise Harvester and Duet again.


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## NiToNi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* 
_The first Valhalla cable I bought gave most...
 The 2nd Valhalla gave me more...
 The more Valhalla I added the bigger the improvements...
 The last Valhalla power cord I added gave the biggest improvement..._

 

Makes sense...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Man, you are indeed wired. Here was I thinking your avatar was a retouch.


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't replace P300 with Premier because I NEED MWave4. Premier can only do MWave1..._

 

Since I want to save more electricity I tried it again, I was hoping to replace P300 with Premier, but after more experimentation I can't see how Premier could be any better. The difference between MWave1 and MWave4 makes the biggest difference in my system.

 I moved my transport from Power Plant into Ultimate Outlet and it still sounded better than when all components were using MWave1. So the difference between MWave1 and MWave4 is bigger than Ultimate Outlet vs Power Plant.

 MWave4 is both warmer and more transparent than MWave1. More detail, blacker background, more bass, more body, more transparency, better highs, smoother, fuller, warmer, faster, more realistic, everything! 
 It makes MWave1 sound broken in comparison, there is lack of detail and it sounds too open, now I understand why people get a blacker background when they daisy chain multiple Power Plants together. But with one Power Plant and MWave4 I can't see how it can get any blacker than this, where is the weakness? I don't hear anything wrong!


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## Patrick82

I bought $100 worth of biscuits and ate them in 3 weeks, it didn't seem like a good bang for my buck. It was an experiment and I thought I would hate biscuits afterwards but now I developed an addiction instead. I didn't eat enough biscuits.

 It's better to be addicted to clean power, it doesn't make me as fat. I'm still curious what the Premier will do, it seems like I will try it for 30 days and return if I don't like it. I hope I can resist the urge to tweak it to pieces before then, maybe I can slide some ERS Paper inside without anyone knowing..."Oops some paper fell inside".

 Does anyone know if the 30 day evaluation starts on the day of delivery or the day of payment?


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm still curious what the Premier will do, it seems like I will try it for 30 days and return if I don't like it._

 

I checked the price and it's $3600 here, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 crazy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, there's no way I will pay that much. I could get 3 Premiers used for that price, too bad they have a fixed input voltage, I can't import them from USA then.

 My only choice is Nordost Thor then. Checking price in Sweden...$4600 OH MY GOD! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Checking price on Audiogon...$1900, ahahahaha.


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## peelax

Bargain


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## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peelax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Bargain_

 

being a bit sarcastic huh?


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## Patrick82

Ok, now I'm confused.

 They have taken out the Super Filter from Premier because of EMI. http://www.psaudio.com/account/forum...1&topicID=4116

 That Super Filter is only in Quintessence, so eventually I would need Quintessence + Premier.

 I checked the new prices at Audiogon and counted shipping, Paypal fee and taxes. If I buy the Premier from Sweden I'm losing $450, but if I get the Quintessence I'm only losing $150 and I get warranty. It's pretty obvious I need to get that one first.

 So eventually I would have Nordost Thor -> Quintessence -> Premier -> P300.
 It seems like the end result would be pretty muddy sounding. I don't like it.

 It doesn't seem good to have a big muddy filter in the signal path. As long as the edginess isn't annoying it's good enough, I don't want to sacrifice the speed. I don't think I'm getting Nordost Thor either. I rather get another Valhalla digital cable for my computer, at least then I know what I'm getting. I don't like surprises.


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## JLai

Damn. Cable costs more than my entire rig. I guess I'm gonna have to settle on earplugs to get my "black" sound.


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## Patrick82

I plugged my computer into the wall instead of Ultimate Outlet and it made it sound faster on the surface but the AC noise made it sound more open which masked low-level resolution. Background wasn't black anymore! Ultimate Outlet was little better overall, but it made it slower. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Power conditioning sucks. I don't want to pay for something that makes it worse. The background just needs to be as black that it is acceptable. The more power conditioning you add the worse it gets overall because eventually you won't hear an improvement in blackness anymore.

 Only power supply manipulation with P300 Power Plant is good enough because it doesn't add any weaknesses. I don't like the muddy input transformers but MWave4 is so good that it makes it better overall. Clean Sweep is important too.

 Now I know that I'm not getting the Premier, I just need something small to put between P300 and wall that reduces AC noise little more than Ultimate Outlet but still sounds faster. Premier would be overkill in blackness.

 So my choice is either Duet or Nordost Thor. Thor should give a blacker background, but what about the speed?


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## Patrick82

The difference between Ultimate Outlet and wall is crazy. My system sounded very black and suddenly it sounds very open. It sounds the opposite! This is what I would call night and day. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My system hasn't sounded this open for many months.

 Valhalla power cord sounds best when plugged into the wall. But when using power conditioning it sounds too black and needs to be modified. 1 conductor needs to be disconnected for every power conditioner you add to the path. Valhalla has 3 conductors per signal. With Ultimate Outlet + P300 I need to use 1 conductor to get synergy.

 With computer you need 1 extra conductor because it has extra jitter. 3 conductor Valhalla with Ultimate Outlet sounded perfect. When computer is plugged to wall it sounds a little broken, broken but fast!


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## Scrith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The difference between Ultimate Outlet and wall is crazy. My system sounded very black and suddenly it sounds very open._

 

I also did not like the sound of my amp (PS Audio GCC-250) when plugged into an Ultimate Outlet (I also tried a UPC-200 with the same result) and ended up just using the wall outlet. From the wall, bass sounded much stronger and detailed.

 But then I tried a Duet...what a difference! The new PS Audio technology is MUCH better than their old stuff. I now use the GCC-250 out of a Duet and have the best of both worlds (blackness and openness with bass detail). You should give it a try. I immediately ordered a PP Premier after hearing how much improved their new generation of products is...I'll write a report on it once it arrives.


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## Alu

Don't get lost in your gear, get lost in your music. Try listening to it for once.


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## Patrick82

Ok, I'm getting the Premier.

 I have realized that Toroidal transformers need MWave4 but with other transformers it isn't as important.

 The bigger the Toroid is the bigger the improvement. When I went from MWave1 to MWave4 for my old Krell KAV-500i it made a bigger difference than Vishnu vs Valhalla power cord. Valhalla power cord for Krell made the biggest improvement in my system at that time.
 My Benchmark DAC1 has a Toroid and I heard huge improvements when I changed from MWave1 to MWave4.
 My new ICEpower amp (GCC-100) doesn't benefit from MWave4 that much so I can move it to the Premier along with the rest.

 I will only use the P300 Power Plant for gear with Toroidal transformers.


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## Konig

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok after 8 days, they responded 4 hours after I wrote that, coincidence?They are reading this forum! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It seems like Premier is the way to go then. Or maybe some Noise Harvesters will make the background black enough that music becomes listenable with my modded cables. I removed some detail so there's no problem now, but I miss it too much.

 This autumn is crazy, everything is released at once. 1080p projectors, HD-DVD, Blu-Ray, new Stewart Firehawk screen, Geforce 8800gtx, Windows Vista, Playstation 3, 1080p harddrive camcorders, Slimdevices Transporter, Tara Labs Zero, Noise Harvesters, Premier. OMG so much! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No wonder they put the introductory offer!_

 

im still waiting for 1TB hard disks and some clever mathematician to figure out a formula to replace those lost bits in compressed audio files.

 For active power filtering the isoclean transfomers look like some serious stuff.
 For passive power filtering u juz cant beat the walker velocitor s for looks and style.

 patrick, do u know y some ppl keep their digital components to one power conditioner while all the analogue components to another?


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Konig* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_patrick, do u know y some ppl keep their digital components to one power conditioner while all the analogue components to another?_

 

Because of noise from switching power supplies. I haven't been able to try it though.


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## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Konig* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_im still waiting for 1TB hard disks and some clever mathematician to figure out a formula to replace those lost bits in compressed audio files.

 For active power filtering the isoclean transfomers look like some serious stuff.
 For passive power filtering u juz cant beat the walker velocitor s for looks and style.

 patrick, do u know y some ppl keep their digital components to one power conditioner while all the analogue components to another?_

 


 You can NEVER add something that is MISSING! Lost bits cannot be added! Lost information is loosing detail and dynamics! The first thing you'll notice of compressed audio is that the dynamics are gone!


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## Konig

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Because of noise from switching power supplies. I haven't been able to try it though._

 

noise from switching power supplies?


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## Konig

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can NEVER add something that is MISSING! Lost bits cannot be added! Lost information is loosing detail and dynamics! The first thing you'll notice of compressed audio is that the dynamics are gone!_

 

thats y the mathematicians has to be smart


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## Vul Kuolun

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can NEVER add something that is MISSING! Lost bits cannot be added! Lost information is loosing detail and dynamics! The first thing you'll notice of compressed audio is that the dynamics are gone!_

 

lol. Do you know the difference between data compression and dynamics compression at all?


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## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I checked the price and it's $3600 here, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 crazy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, there's no way I will pay that much. I could get 3 Premiers used for that price, too bad they have a fixed input voltage, I can't import them from USA then._

 

The Premier cost $2195 in the US. Why not have a fellow Head-Fier buy one in the US and spend $75 to send it over to you?


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## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Vul Kuolun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_lol. Do you know the difference between data compression and dynamics compression at all?_

 


 If you compress a mp3, the first thing you'll notice is that the dynamics are gone. It doesn't have the same pressure as the original.


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## Konig

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Vul Kuolun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_lol. Do you know the difference between data compression and dynamics compression at all?_

 

One still contains all the info in a file by compressing its size

 the other has totally removed some information

 if u use the analogy on a human, one was probably mummified while the other has certain body parts cut off and burnt to ashes


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Konig* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_noise from switching power supplies?_

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched-mode_power_supply


http://www.psaudio.com/products/moreinfo.asp
  Quote:


 Each of the 5 IsoZones on the rear of the Premier Power Plant separates equipment noise. All electronic equipment generates AC line noise, some more than others. When you plug a digital device in the same receptacle as an analog device, the noise of one can interfere and contaminate the performance of the other. To solve this problem, you need effective isolation between equipment.


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Premier cost $2195 in the US. Why not have a fellow Head-Fier buy one in the US and spend $75 to send it over to you?_

 

$2195 + $305 shipping + $75 + 4% Paypal fee = $2678 

 + 27% customs = $3353

 Shipping from Sweden to USA is double the price so if there is something wrong with the Premier it will cost $4228 total. And if I have bad luck (I will) I need to pay taxes again, so $5578 total. And if I have more bad luck, my 2nd Premier will be bad too so I need to send it back again = $7803.

 I rather spend $3600 to get warranty.


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## Vul Kuolun

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Konig* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One still contains all the info in a file by compressing its size

 the other has totally removed some information

 if u use the analogy on a human, one was probably mummified while the other has certain body parts cut off and burnt to ashes_

 

This is getting better and better. You guys absolutely rule.


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## Konig

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched-mode_power_supply


http://www.psaudio.com/products/moreinfo.asp_

 

are u tempted by isoclean?


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## Audio Addict

You should start seeing some comments on the new P3 as the first batches are shipping. Mine is scheduled to ship from Audio Advisor this coming week.


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## Audio Addict

My P3 came in yesterday shipping direct from PS Audio instead of going to Audio Advisor and then to me. Saves time and money avoiding the middle step. It was pretty cold from the trip so I have just left it to warm up to room temperature the past 24 hours. I will get it connected tonight.

 I also received my new Grover S cable so I have 2 new toys for XMAS. Thank-you Santa for an early XMAS.


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## nikongod

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The first Valhalla cable I bought gave most for my money in my system. The 2nd Valhalla gave me more. The more Valhalla I added the bigger the improvements got because less weaknesses were left. The last Valhalla power cord I added gave the biggest improvement because it removed the biggest weakness that was left._

 

so with less error to correct for, you got more error correction? you should be upto at least 300% error correction now! maybe more.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, I had another dream now. Audio has started leaking into my dreams!

 In my dream I was hearing perfect audio with a blacker background than I have now. So now I need to get the Premier because once you go black you can't go back._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Am I dreaming now? I'm already getting the sound of my dreams now. ERS Paper for my Cary transport did this! Oh my god, how can it sound any blacker than this! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 This is how I dreamt it! It just keeps getting better and better, the connectors needed weeks of burn-in after unplugging them OMG._

 

(now for the quote from another thread)
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Silver plated cable sounds like a thin and thick conductor combined, it makes everything more distinct and the contrast ratio will sound bigger which gives fake dynamics and transparency. The background isn't supposed to be that black, it's fake. If you add whiter whites into a grey background then it looks blacker! The opposite is true as well._

 

i dunno, you wrote 2 totally different things in 2 different threads. hey, by betting for both ideas of audio, you can be guaranteed of being correct 50% of the time unless one of them is obviously wrong, in which case anyone would have bet for the better bet.


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nikongod* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so with less error to correct for, you got more error correction? you should be upto at least 300% error correction now! maybe more._

 

Error correction? I am talking about bottlenecks. If you have 10 bottlenecks and cure 1 of them, then the difference will be very small. But if you only have only 1 bottleneck left out of 10, then the improvement will be huge.

 So the more bottlenecks you cure the bigger the improvements will become until all bottlenecks are gone.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nikongod* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_(now for the quote from another thread)

 i dunno, you wrote 2 totally different things in 2 different threads. hey, by betting for both ideas of audio, you can be guaranteed of being correct 50% of the time unless one of them is obviously wrong, in which case anyone would have bet for the better bet._

 

Different how? ERS Paper gave a blacker background which made me hear the signature of Valhalla cables easier. ERS Paper gives a true black background while the Valhalla gives a fake black background.


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Audio Addict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My P3 came in yesterday shipping direct from PS Audio instead of going to Audio Advisor and then to me. Saves time and money avoiding the middle step. It was pretty cold from the trip so I have just left it to warm up to room temperature the past 24 hours. I will get it connected tonight._

 

So, any impressions?

 No response usually means:
 1) There is something wrong with the equipment and it needs to be sent back.
 2) It gave a too small improvement and was disappointing.
 3) The improvement was so huge that the listener got shocked and died.


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## Patrick82

I see in PS Audio forums people are having problems with the Premier, seems like they messed up pretty good. I already ordered the Premier a week ago and it will be delivered in a month, I haven't paid for it yet though.
 Too bad the Thor isn't available on Audiogon anymore...

 I remember now why I wanted another Power Plant in the first place, so I can demagnetize my computer, it's already worth the price of the Premier for me. I'm using Ultimate Outlet now to save electricity.

 See old post: http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showp...5&postcount=31
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After 19 hours without demagnetizing it sounded HORRIBLE
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . Everything was masked with brightness, I couldn't hear transients, highs were like a big block of brightness and mid-range sounded muddy, every album was like this. It didn't sound like real life.

 But then I did the 60 second Clean Sweep for the computer...

 OH MY GOD! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Everything sounds SHARP with subtle transients everywhere, they are not masked with brightness anymore! Each album is very sharp and transparent. There's more blackness in between transients. 
 I can't be without this.

 This is sad. Now I need to have loud 40cm fan running on max speed._

 

Ok, that does it, now I'm really getting the Premier!


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## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 3) The improvement was so huge that the listener got shocked and died._

 

 Must have been one of your solder jobs then.


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## Patrick82

My interconnect mod gave huge improvements.
 For the first time it sounds acceptable to listen whole day, I don't want to turn off music.

 I'm scared of the Premier now, people are having problems... A part of me feels that if I don't get the Premier I'm stopping in front of the finish line in a race. But the other part feels that the finish line is a cliff and I will fall over.

 I guess I will keep my other gear on my P300 and use the Premier just for the computer, cheap to replace if it blows up, I need a new graphics card anyway.


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## Audio Addict

I received my P3 this week. So far I am very satisfied with it. Currently I am only running my Meridian DSP 5200 speakers into it as the power cord for my Meridian G08 is too short to fit.

 I have learned that you can't switch instantly back and forth with the MutliWave On vs. Off as it wasn't designed for this. The remote makes it very easy to do this but it takes a few seconds for it to kick in and if you're not patient enough, it mutes my system for a couple of seconds.


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## Scrith

I am one of the people on the PS Audio forums that is having problems with their new PPP. I received it on Friday and it immediately began acting strange. According to the display information it is only outputting 34 volts (should be 120) and the THD actually went up (from 1.5 to 4.4).

 However, I'm impressed that the President of the company replied to my customer service forum post within about an hour (on Friday night). He expressed disappointment and said they'd arrange a quick replacement.

 Although I haven't used it for anything yet, I am definitely impressed with the look and build quality of the device and how quiet it is (this was a particular concern of mine, because the even the very slight hum of the previous Power Plants was troublesome to me). I'm really looking forward to receiving a working one (probably sometime late next week).

 Update (6/21/2007): I got a replacement within a few days and it has been working great ever since.


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## Patrick82

Ok, Premier is arriving in a couple of days, two months earlier than others in Europe. I don't use Schuko connectors...
 I'm expecting it to be DOA, that way I don't need to be disappointed. If the Premier arrives alive then it's a bonus.


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## Patrick82

It came and half asleep I went to post office and pulled it through the snow, I got sore. I was worried of robbers, but if I had taken baseball bat with me then gangs might have thought I was outside looking for trouble.

 I plugged it in and it was working, after 5 minutes I had forgotten how worried I was of it breaking. I remember now a few days later.

 Edit: Here's the first impression thread: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=222478


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## Patrick82

Ok, it blew up 2 months later, little sooner than I expected. But at least I found the truth.

 The MWave1 setting didn't work in my system at all, only MWave4 works with all the gear I tried. DAC, amp, Cary transport, computer power supply. MWave4 gives the most low-level detail and bass when matched with Valhalla power cords. 
 P300 has MWave4, but Premier has only MWave1. This is what I was scared of.


 Now I'm thinking of getting another Premier or Quintessence. The retailer gave me an offer to buy the new ones for 55% discount. So I guess that's what I will do.

 I'm going to use the Premier or Quintessence between P300 and wall. Only my Cary transport will be connected to that P300. My amp's and DAC's P300 is plugged directly into the wall without any filtering, it sounds better that way.

 My setup now is wall - Ultimate Outlet - P300 - Cary 303/300 CD transport

 My new setup will be:

*1)* wall - Premier - P300 - Cary
*2)* wall - Quintessence - P300 - Cary


 I'm going to buy it on tuesday, any ideas? I don't have money for both.

 I could also get the Premier and sell it new in the box, I don't know if anyone wants to buy it though.


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## Patrick82

Ok, I bought the Premier again. But this time with Schuko ports so I can sell it if I don't like it. I bought $150 worth of Cryo treated adapters because I'm skeptic of connectors, as long as Valhalla cable is plugged into adapters it's good enough... I also bought an Oyaide connector for $100 in case I'm wrong.


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